20 Episode results for "North Slope"
07-29-20 No single COVID-19 solution in Alaska
"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque, interrogate would. Go nineteen infection rates are spiking. In. Alaska. Prompting new restrictions in Anchorage, the state's largest city. The number of corona virus cases remain relatively low compared to other states, but it's starting to cause more problems in smaller towns and villages. Alaska also has lucrative commercial fishing season thousands of seasonal workers coming to the state, which could increase the risk of Kobe nineteen. We check in covert nineteen in Alaska right after the news. This is national native news. I'm making camera in for Antonio Gonzales in Oklahoma. A federal judge ruled against Governor Kevin stood in a dispute over tribal gaming compacts. This week, the Tulsa world reports nine tribal government sought a ruling on whether the complex had expired at the end of twenty nineteen. As stick claimed the court ruled, they did not an attorney for the. The, chickasaw nation said, the decision was good for tribes and brings back stability and certainty. The judge gave both sides until August seventh to present any additional issues. It was unclear if the governor would appeal the state of Oklahoma has spent more than one and a half million dollars in legal and other fees in the fight over the gaming compacts casino dot. Dot Org. Said stood a member of the Cherokee nation has fought with the state's larger tribes to share more of their casino winnings with the state. This is the latest of several court decisions against stood the Tulsa World reports the State Supreme Court ruled earlier this month. The governor exceeded his authority when he signed new gaming compacts with the Comanche and Oto Missouri. Missouri tribes also earlier this month, the US Supreme, court upheld tribal sovereignty in criminal matters in the mcgirt versus Oklahoma Case the Atlantic coast, the ruling, one of the most important supreme court cases of all time. It found that Congress never extinguished the lands set aside for the Muskogee Creek nation. Basically saying about forty, seven percent of Oklahoma was still native land. Native. Leaders in Minnesota say the trump administration is getting off to a bad start in its attempts to combat the missing and murdered indigenous women. Issue Federal officials announced, they're opening seven offices around the country dedicated to solving cold cases, but at an event to officially open the first office near Minneapolis this week native leaders say they were kept out of the loop Matt Sepik of. MINNESOTA. Public radio reports the president's daughter. Ivanka trump. Cut The ribbon. Monday on Minnesota's missing and murdered native Americans cold-case Office. The event featured opening prayers from officials with the Little River Band of Ottawa, Indians men the Lower Sioux. Indian community, but outside Minnesota State Representative Mary. Mary. Nash PA-. Dean who's of Lakota heritage stood with protesters. Democrat Co chairs the state's M W task force. But says, she was never told about the event or what the Federal Office will do this visit from a bank at trunk felt very disingenuous. It felt very scripted as a possible photo opportunity for a campaign fodder for her father's reelection Minnesota. Luke Governor, Peggy Flanagan, a member of the white Earth Band of Ojibway, and the nation's highest ranking native elected official was similarly kept in the dark next week. The Interior Department plans to open additional offices in rapid city south, Dakota and billings Montana for national native news I met Sepik in Minneapolis. Tucked inside a massive spending bill passed by the US. House, of Representatives recently wasn't amendment designed to block a move by the trump administration denying the mashpee walk tribe, their sovereign Land Casino Dot Org reports Democratic Congressman Joe Kennedy. The third from Massachusetts introduced the amendment. He said the trump administration quote, use the COVID nineteen pandemic to try to steal the tribes land and define their people out of existence. The tribe wants to build a billion dollar casino resort in Taunton Massachusetts and. And was working with Development Group from Malaysia in two thousand, fifteen, the US Department of Interior place more than three hundred acres of land into Federal Trust for the tribe including land in Taunton and Mashpee. But Interior rescinded that verdict in two thousand, eighteen, the tribe claims that nixed the casino deal resulting in a five hundred, million dollar loss. The mashpee walks trace their ancestors back the first. Thanksgiving with the pilgrims in sixteen twenty, one for National Native News, I'm Megan Cameras. National Native News is produced by broadcast, Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by the Internet Society tribe have until August third to apply for a license to help bring the Internet to their communities more INFO. Available by calling mark at one, eight, hundred, three, one, one, twenty-one, sixty, six, or visit Internet Society Dot Org Slash Tribal. Support by Indian country counts reminding you that you can be a census hero when you fill out your census form today at my twenty, twenty census dot Gov or by calling eight, four, four, three, three, zero, twenty, twenty. Native Voice One, the native American Radio Network. This is native America calling I'm Taraji would Alaska is experiencing a surge in covid nineteen cases. Still the numbers associated with the outbreak sound more like a small city reports. Say there are fewer than three thousand cases and twenty two deaths among the less residence currently fairbanks seeing very sharp increase causing concern among state health officials. But the virus is also making its way into more remote areas in rural villages. The state also keeps track of infections of non-residents. That's because many people come from out of the state to work in seasonal commercial fishing operations and make up almost a quarter of the total of cove nineteen cases in the state we're checking in with. With people in Alaska, to see what special challenges they are encountering with the pandemic and how officials are responding to them. If your listener in Alaska, we hope you will dial in and tell us what you're experiencing. You can give us a call at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, native, and today we're going to start off in Fairbanks Alaska? We have Yvonne Peter. He. Is the vice chancellor for Rural Community in native education at the University of Alaska. Fairbanks. He is Gretchen in quicken. Our pleasure to have him here with US Yvonne. Thank you for joining us for another native, America calling. Card to be on the show this morning, and I'm glad to hear focusing on this topic. Here and it is an important topic and you know we have been, you know looking at this at different places across our need of nations and wondering you know what connects, and as you hear what's happening in Alaska if there are things that you come to mind or maybe even some of the first stages of Kobe nineteen. In your own community, you have some thoughts. You can always give us a ring, one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, and so Yvonne Understanding Covid. Nineteen came to your circle, tell me about how you and your family faced it. Yeah. You know it. It was Very challenging illness You know we were taking a lot of the safety precautions where he max we weren't going to any large gatherings. But still it managed to make its way into kind of insular circular of our close family like brother and sister level and Then we began to isolate. but it still managed to make its way, make its way through At one point we had you know when it started to spread and we have a third family member test positive. we all. Get, tested. Most of US got the negative but then still ended up falling ill, and at that point, you realize that you know some of the tests, false negatives and. and then also kind of how sneaky viruses come as it spreads. and. Not all family members, the same a couple of health intruded fell quite ill and really struggled through some of the harder week or two. Of the illness and we're still recovering now. and You Know I. Think I went public and let people know about my illness because I was really concerned about how speaking viruses Cowan, how to move so quickly and I wanted to help wing the alarm bells more broadly. As much as I could across. Alaska. For for our communities, understand how? How serious it is, and how important is supposed to take protective measures for strong. In Yvonne I know a lot of people have followed your work over the years, and then of course, the work that you're doing there in the education arena, and so that's a widespread. An even across native. America in a really appreciate you being here and. Sharing, you know some of your experiences in. Glad to hear. That your family is pushing through this in Yvonne. When you knew this was there in your own personal circle, what were some of your thoughts. Well, of course, the first stocks that I had were, we need to protect our elders of anyone whose immune compromised. you know within our extended family, and so we immediately moved anyone about scenario out from any of the homes that they were living in within our extended family and found them kind of solitaire room spaces to live outside of the homes. that. We were able to find places because we're in a city to able to do that, and and and there was you know they were too many family members that met that criteria either. One of the. You know one of the first measures that that we took. In one that really does think about all those involved in your circle, any von is there anything you can share with folks about how you do push through this more anything that you turn to to get over or to get through this or to really fight the virus anything that you or your family members did. Yeah I. You know we immediately Just. Let, go of all were and anything else that we we should be doing unfortunately, get it impacted our family's ability. Normally, we fish during the time we thought all. So we just had to give up the idea of being able to go out and and put fish away. for this summer at our fish camp. And and daily, just drink a lot of fluids. We drink emergencies. We had herbal teas and some medicines off the land up your that we were using as well. when we need it to, we use tylenol just to deal with the pain, and also would we went to the phase where we had fever cal, produce the either some. really just a lot of rest and a lot of fluids out a lot of vitamins. Then some of the medicines off the land was really our poach, we per se a lot of suits with a lot of nutrients in them. So we have new soup and a lot of vegetables in it, things like that. allow our bodies to not have to work so hard to digest the food also Well, we're well, we're navigating and luckily in each of our homes we at at least have one or two people who. were either. or just slightly impacted with symptoms, and so they were able to help cherry out. You know some of the cooking, and then we're really grateful for our daughter extended family and community cheering curbing some prostate because people were being a home cooked meals, leaving it outside our door or mailing less medicine from different parts of the state that we you know used and we're really grateful for. Anyone about how long was it before things started to turn around? So I, think was about. Ten days It was you know. In the middle of that I eight days. On, their? They. Pretty. Concerned. You know. I. Would Go as far as the same little scary there for a day or two just not knowing which way they illness was gonNA. And we did a lot of research, of course, as soon as it got our circle. Understood that. You know this is can be an extended illness and particular between my seven and eleven. There's this timeframe where some people just get worse and other start to improve. And so that window and maybe I shouldn't have done that. And studying after after it's knowing that had come indoor family, but that time in particular I think was just really a little nerve wracking, but we're really grateful that once we kind of got through that window and we started getting into day ten and eleven and conditions to improve. But but even now we're, we're still I'm symptomatic and so my wife, and I were just talking this morning about the potential, maybe getting back into the clinic just to get checked up on again So. So we're not out yet. And Yvonne. Did you do any contact tracing trying to figure out where this came into your circle? Oh, yeah yeah. So we. Of course called us as well, and so they were doing personal although when we right when the cases respecting Alaska in. Alaska when we Entered into our family, and so even at that time, public health is overwhelmed and they weren't really able to keep up with all the the chasing the calls. for one person or family. They weren't able to call back for a couple of weeks and to check up on them others, dot calls. You know I don't know once before days or so even though initially they said they were gonNA call every day check in. So I know that their system kind of became overwhelmed right at about that time. That that be ended up having move into our family but. You know there's two people. It was younger people in our family, and that tends to be where this. Movie most right now is a moment twenty to thirty year old range of young people. and that's really how can door is wall. In even you know we're GONNA. Go to break here, but definitely want to hear your thoughts on. Some of the things that you realize in in maybe you don't know till you're facing it. Head on in this way but also having that courage to share your story in what sharing your story does for others in sometimes a lot of times when we've talked about different health disparities in our communities, different conditions, a lot of times. There is a a motion to not tell anybody or to not share or not be up front with this or even the thought of being stigmatized and I know you do a lot of work with living in a good way and also teaching. Our. Young people to also be proud of who they are in the circle that they have, and so I'm wondering what your thoughts were or any advice you have to others about facing this or also making sure that there isn't shaming that goes along with this. When somebody does have a positive result one, hear your thoughts on that. If you would like to talk about that, you can give us a ring there in Alaska were wondering how things are Yvonne also does work in education. So hear about plans for this upcoming school year, but we'd really like to open up these phone lines directly to you. So you can share and give US A. A report of just what is happening in the state how things are going, and of course, work that's being done in your own village or community to stop the spread of covid nineteen, share thoughts, one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number. We look forward to what you'd like to say go ahead and give us a ring. Maybe you've worked with Yvonne too and just want to share some words with him. He's here the full hour. Go ahead and dial in now one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number. We look forward to hearing from you today here on our live broadcast native America. Calling. Sacred people is part one of a two volume set. Up The discussion on traditional leadership. This book explore ways of thinking and of life join us for the next native America calling as we jump into Shan worldview on July book of the month with the Book's Author Leo Kills Back. Count. HSS discovery who to towns fairly soup, Marie. SOONER KRISTIE TOILETS TO SLEEP IN KOSPI? That's Malibu cuts weeks quill sheet in SGT colloquial. Soup Meriem Cornell would send me two quaint healthcare dot Gov request quote full House One, eight, hundred, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six. Meet and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. You're listening to native America calling him Tara, Gatewood from US letter Pueblo and today we are talking about covid nineteen in Alaska, and we know it's a huge state with many rural Alaskan native communities. Are you concerned about covid nineteen reaching your own community is your community prepared? What are officials doing? You can give us a ring join our conversation by calling one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, four, eight. That's also one eight, hundred, nine native with us today out of Fairbanks Alaska is Yvonne, Peter. He is question inquiry con He is sharing his story about the covid nineteen and avant go back to you those thoughts on just trying to understand it making sure. That we're keeping those safe around us and and maybe it means even sharing our stories and also fighting stigma anything you want to share even. You know when when this was all happening initially and? We're coming to realize that. Some folks family are Falling Hill. and especially I think that the fact that several of US myself included have the false naked test and then still fell ill within a day of time. It just made me realize that you know the the the need to share my story. more broadly within our Tunde in particular to try to help. Raise the level of awareness especially in made a community. The need to be ultra protective of our our elders and compromised out folks in our communities and our families and one of my initial post I said you know it's really hard for us not to follow kind of our. And Protocols and the way that we treat and. Come close to elders and loved ones. But This is a situation. That we. Really. Need to step up. I feel like our disciplined to keep those boundaries that don't feel natural. Understanding that it's helping to protect them and so really what I was thinking that who talking through with my with my partner as well. we just decided that this isn't about us, and but but her story may be able to help elevate that awareness and puts more protections in place for anyone who is maybe on the fence. So. Thinking about how serious this virus is an certainly began. Baltimore martill gets reaffirmed kind of the importance of getting that message out as broadly as possible in a personalized way. You know because I do have a lot of friends and social media and people are really close to Dayton. I thought Oh maybe if I. Her family can be humility around just saying look this. It's not anyone's fault that we might have contracted this virus, but it is moving and it's very sneaky and I. You know. So I think we just started taking. The? Right thing to do for. Sure and even knowing it in when people do share their story, it also helps you to so that you can protect the ones who are in your circle or maybe also timeout and say, okay, I'm GonNa make sure I don't go here to make sure I. Don't have contact as well, and you know keeping those good thoughts. Thank you for sharing that Yvonne. We're GONNA move into how all of this is affecting education unless you have anything else to share about facing this personally. No I think I. Think I shared quite a bit you. In. So Yvonne. I'm also going to bring in another person who is also taking a look at this and how it is affecting education, joining us out of Anchorage Alaska today Dr Pearl Brower she is the President the Saga Vic College, and she is North Slope into back our pleasure to have her here Dr Brower. Thank you for being with us in. Understand you go by. Perl, so Pearl. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Lord Jeff Good Morning Everyone. In Dr. Brower. When we think of education, there's so much Specifically, how is your college preparing for the next school year? How his cove in nineteen changed things? Boy. It has been such a world when and I'm sure that's how everyone is feeling. I was reflecting with our stuff just this earlier this week that. One of the things that has been really difficult through the whole process is just how gray when you're trying to project and you're trying to make plans for the future usually were able to. Make a plan and we're able to think. All right. This is probably pretty much what's going to happen. And that really has been completely changed with the Kobuk Kobe pandemic that we are all facing, and so one of the things for us that was really important, first and foremost was. Our was the health and safety of number one, our students and our employees, and given all the unknowns. We very quickly in the middle of March When when Alaska began really seeing the effects of code went into action just as all of our sister education entities around the state whether it was a k. through twelve or higher Ed, and we went to a virtual model really quickly we are actually Actually, really lucky and compared to many of our tribal college sisters around the country We most of our academic classes, we offer an distance capacity because that is our That's our goal, and that's our vision of connecting with all of our communities across the North Slope are seven other communities outside of Barrow and That is really core to our mission. So many of our students telecommute or. Use, online platforms for education in our villages around in our rural areas around the state of Alaska, and so we were able to transition pretty well. But one of the things we saw was that we definitely, we definitely lost them students through that process for various reasons. So as we have looked we kept a really quiet summer we stayed in, we actually stayed in either a Work from home, just essential employees working from home or a limited operation, which is what we're at. Now, where we're still encouraging some telework and our our actual facility is only open four days a week for a few hours and everyone else is working either from their offices, but or from home practicing good social distancing But our summer camp we usually? Upwards of two hundred plus high school students, every summer and that we had to we had to put on hold. We were able to offer a couple of spent summer camps to a couple of groups in like in healthcare related fields which I have actually heard where right in the middle of some of that I haven't heard the result of how successful those virtual camp were, but we were trying to think outside the box and think of other. Other ways in which we could engage as we thought about the fall, and we're currently just this week going to be making our announcement of how we're going to open the fall We are encouraging where looking at a virtual model for all of our fall academic classes. We are very much leaning towards a few of our vocational education classes, which, of course are so hands on being in person, but being very cautious about the social distancing and Thinking about how we may be able to change curriculums so that we lessen the amount of time that students need to be on campus and and maybe package bad in a way that it at. We front-load where a lot of it is the bookwork and maybe they don't have to come to campus yet, and then they come to campus at another point in time, we are being really cautious because a huge portion of our instruction is workforce development and not US travelling to our village communities across the north slope and across the state of Alaska. That's also on the flip side having community members from those areas come to Barrow. So the travel to Barrow, we have we are not. Not Doing Right now, and we've said to our communities. If you have something specific, you need to do please let us know and then what we will do is be very, just community driven. If a community wants something, we will do our best to bring that to them or we're looking at all the options that we can deliver some of that instruction remotely, and virtually, we are very closely monitoring what our dorm situation will look like. We know it will be limited and we know it will be single occupancy. We are probably not going to be opening our cafeteria up at this point in time, and we're GONNA stay in a limited operations. We are really concerned about the influx of. Of our of people coming into our communities. At the start of the school year and for up in Alaska, this is really important to note that we have a lot of our teachers are imported and many of them have families, and so across rural Alaska, everyone is thinking about this and regards to how our schools opening and so with the influx of new people or people who have been outside of the state they're so critical to the teaching and learning and. Teachers are so important to us, but in this type of pandemic pandemic, where worried about what that might look like health related for our communities and so because we are teaching a different demographic I, feel we have a lot more flexibility in how we start our fall semester and we really want be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. So a lot of our decisions are driven by the safety for our students, our employees, and our communities across the across the north slope. Let's very good to hear in Pearl. Just, to update what do the numbers look like in the surrounding area in barrel? So, are the North Slope Right now, and there are kind of they're two different ways that numbers are being. Calculated between our Arctic Slope, Native Association Versus the Department of Health and social, services, and My My disclaimer here is that, of course, I have not a health care professional. Also an our teams I know are doing amazing work. We had a joint call yesterday with all of our entities across our slope including Arctic, Slope Native Association, and the North Slope Borough but the most recent. Recent numbers that I was that I was privy to. During that call was that we have, you know twelve cases across the north slope. We have a few of those in of barrel residents. A few of those barrel residents are actually quarantining where they received their positive results, which is, anchorage. We do know that we have had one individual in our community of Barrow proper. Proper. That that has been has contracted coded and didn't travel. So of course, it was community spread from someone else who who had. So everybody's being really cautious and there's a lot a lot of great communication and a lot of you know community members really sharing the message of where those face coverings try to stay home as much as possible. Please be cautious for elders you. You know I, know that we're starting We've lost one of our elders from our state We lost a couple. We've most recently lost another one and and that was they hadn't travelled. You know that was somebody who was in their circle and I really you know Yvonne and I are good friends and I sent you know as he and his family were Or? Getting, better and working towards. You know saying you know Towards Kinda dealing with this illness. You know we sent all of our all of our best wishes to him, and then we just all have to be in this together, and all of you know all the a part of the solution. Thank you for that in you. If you want to add some words, go ahead, dial in one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number in a von again. Thank you for sharing your story. Of course, having that courage, and I guess the gratitude also goes to your full family for also sharing your story. Yvonne. Anything you. Intel, Pearl. Timing just. mentioned. We're really close friends for a long time. Now, just really be over her support as well as everyone else's support for our family on a personal level But but also you know we also share some what happened here, education and their state of having to manage and navigate this balance of. Still providing opportunities for our. Students to continue their education. and provide the best safety. Measures as possible at the same time and one of the challenges we face in Alaska is that. Many of our diligence, probably most don't have the bandwidth for the students to be able to simply go online and take distance education courses that. Internet based from their villages and so in. Order for us to ensure that we're being equitable and still providing support to Alaska native students students as Pearl mentioned with song to make it the same as. We're still going to have our dorms opening up August to allow students to come in same things, single occupancy and really we we need to provide that service in order for. Students to have an equitable opportunity, still be able to continue their education We're one of the few universities in the spring when the pandemic kit, we of course, ship at all of our courses online at most of the students make the dorms. But we still did have dorm occupancy did this spring provided food service where we're delivering food to the dorm doors for each student So they were still able to be socially distance and and we've learned a lot in the spring actually still having some courses that were face to face mostly the workforce ones in the medical fields. Because those employees for really needed by by the hospitals clinics. And Until we learned a lot through the spring might happened the dorms operating in food service didn't support services, and so we're taking all of that learning and applying that to our opening this fall. At a scaled down version and and so we have some person courses. But. The majority of our Christmas will continue to be online distance. In any words to? Your. Students Yvonne. One were really grateful and appreciative that you're that even through the midst of this pandemic is Pearl said, this is impacted every single person world and every one of us has had layers of challenges whether it's navigating. You know loss because we do have family members of people you know within our extended circles of friends because we're such a tight knit community within Alaska So those are very real at impact us personally to you know kind of the full spectrum of impacts dependent is causing. So given that broader context, I'm just really grateful that a lot of the students are continuing to stay committed to pursue and move forward in their educational. Pursuits and so. for one grateful that you're you're doing that and to you know we are the tweeting a lot of safety measures such as math wearing requirements. We're GONNA have testing on campus. And you know we have expectations of our students as most faculty and staff as we come back on, and so I think that it's just really critical trust follow all those precautionary and safety measures so that we can all stay as we. Stand up our courses and also were working to get more tutoring available via zoom or online or phone call for all as well. Because so many students are shifting over to online courses and and so we're trying to beef up our student, support their for those students who are GonNa be ten change you kind of a new mode of educational delivery. There is a lot of new when it comes to navigating through the pandemic, and if you'd like to share some thoughts, maybe you're in Alaska and you'd like to share your story about how you are preparing for the next school year decisions, you've had to make any thoughts about some of the chefs. You can give us a ring, one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number and anything else you'd like to check in on their in. Alaska. Of How cove in nineteen is affecting your communities or just even your thoughts on the possibility of it affecting your circle. Support by Amarin Indian countries one, hundred percent tribally owned insurance partner. Amarin works with tribal governments and their business enterprises to provide effective commercial insurance coverage strengthen native American communities, protect tribal sovereignty, and help keep dollars in Indian country more information on property liability. Compensation and commercial auto solutions at Amazon DOT COM. That's A. M.. E. R. I. N. D. DOT COM. Thanks for tuning into native America calling. Tara gatewood today, we're focusing on Alaska and covid nineteen, and there is still time to join our conversation were at one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also when you hundred nine native and we're GONNA go ahead and move over to Dillingham. Alaska right. Now, we have Robert Clark on the line he. He, the president and CEO the Bristol Bay Area Health Corporation. He is ubiquitous and Robert Thank you for joining us for another native America calling, and I know your time is limited here with us us. So just want to go ahead and open up the conversation to some of the things you are seeing happening Varenne Alaska, how Kobe nineteen is affecting. Places in your area goldenshare. Morning Story about that rushing here. I heard a little bit about school districts were working with our four school districts in Bristol. Bay. Also like people are doing throughout the state determining whether you open nor do online at that type of stuff there. So Here because we've got four districts little more difficult. We try to do all for one one for all, but it's a real real difficult to get out to remote areas as I think, the gentleman was talking about earlier. So we will be working with them. We typically school physicals. The whole host of things this year, we're really scrap for people. Because of the fishing and a lot of testing villages and just a whole host of dealing with that there. Were real thankful that the big problem that we thought would hit didn't really hit to agree that we're worried about. we believe it's our preparation. We believe the cooperation de can reach the fishermen had with the state of, Alaska and the pre plans de done ahead of time had a lot to do with it, and why we had a number of positive cases they were largely. We're able to, be. Taken care of locally. Some folks got shipped back to Anchorage and maybe a few of them came back throughout the state. many fishing communities had similar type of concerns, but nothing really really bad to degreed that. We thought we'd had so Overall I. think that went reasonably. Well, we're ramping down. So we got a lot less people available fishing for the fall fishing Now that the main fishing is taking place, people are hitting home so that that makes it a little better we're getting to our normal. Routine people, Brooks camp that is in the cat, my area had to close down due to a number of cases up there. So they tried a little bit of the Park Service type activities of people coming up and taking pictures of the bears and this that and the other and fishing, and those are also ramping down. We're getting back to our regular Michelle residency. So Again, we're a little short and we're hoping to get the the tribes, the boroughs, and cities to cooperate all in helping the poor school districts. Between all of us, we should have enough. Money maybe after try pilot programs. Different ways of doing what we had done before the state. Of course, itself has a responsibility We don't have any schools up here anymore And is preparing for all those efforts there We're doing a lot of recruiting to try to revamp different people and that that's been a little bit difficult getting people in and out, and we have a real tough process you have to go through and I think that helps prevent the spread. and. Once we find out. There's an issue jump on it really quick and not important. What's really important in Robert? Can you tell us a little bit of you know the response the state has had in especially in reporting the numbers? Is there anything you want to share about that? Well it so complicated it makes sense to epidemiologist and maybe the state and the FEDS CDC et Cetera. But local people are always wondering about the statistics. It doesn't really fit our way of thinking. What we know is it's either in our village areas and and it came from so many in our community or came from somebody outside the community or outside the state or more forty eight though CEPA stuff where were and continue to be problems of Making sure we understand the different stances groups, like, for example, Billingham, census. Dealing Hammond, nine other communities always been dealing him or one of the other nine communities. In communities have community health age dilling hand doesn't the hostile. Of. Confusion on. that. The neck nick big area has The borough and There's two boroughs and the rest of the areas in the unorganized borough area. But you have all these overlapping jurisdictions making a confusing. But we lurch. Got It working the Big Samaritan purse Operation. That was going to take place in King. Salmon. State opted to not have it because it didn't materialize to a degree that they thought. It was necessary. So they'll be moving elsewhere. We we did. Have a good testing at in knocking King Salmon area, and then over here, dilling Ham, and we will continue what testing through the middle of next month for people coming in mainly teachers, outsiders, and stuff like that. They're so I, think all of us kind of got together. A lot of rough edges. Lot of things learn if something like this came back up again in the future. Hopefully, it is one in one hundred years, but were better prepared for their incident command group. Are, just the hardest working folks doing a lot dirty unsung. Heroes. of the community helping behind the scenes in in the villages all over. Our doctor I'm and. Twenty Year veteran disc retired was called upon all the time to give good information on Katyal gene and the community and the various councils we met with the counselors weekly to updates The council and board members are invited while they. All didn't attend that helped in regards to in person answering any and all questions along with the paperwork that we send out. So a lot of good efforts all over the state, we all learn from each other on how to do testing and this guy, the other so I think Alaska fared well. In spite of the issues, and there's an uptick in anchorage right now, we're a little worried about that. There little sporadic outbreaks out here, but we've been really lucky. In Robert Anything you want to leave us with. No appreciate your efforts nationwide share. Of. Things among all our native brothers and sisters in and out of Alaska they'll appreciate very much. An Robert. We appreciate you joining us today the president. In CEO the Bristol Bay Area Health Corporation, and maybe you want to check in and share some thoughts. Go ahead and give us a ring, one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number with us. Also on the line today is a doctor Pearl brower she is the President of Ili Saga College. College. Also, here to is Yvonne. Peter he is the vice chancellor for rural community and need of education at the University of Alaska. Fairbanks, thank you both for being here with US and Yvonne. Is there anything more you'd like to share about just preparing for the school year or maybe even moves of at the university has done to make sure that learning still goes on. Yes. So You A. University of Fairbanks because I realized that a lot of the nationalist is probably an optimistic university were a world class research university. We conduct climate change research and are one of the prolific research universities in the circumpolar North, and we're unique in that. We also have over twenty percent of our student body Alaska native native. American. and and so we serve a lot of indigenous students and offer programs from certificate level. All the way to page did just that he's and all of those programs, you can also take those programs from anywhere in the world. So we have students from Central America, for example, to our real development program, and you've never set foot in Alaska until they walk across the stage and so our programs are accessible to India the country across. The US for people who might be interested in that type of a kind of an indigenised approach to education training, and we still have a lot of work to do in that area, but it's been a strategic priority for you APP for a lot of years. So because of that, you know we're, we've we've really have to find the pathways to be able to one. Can you continue to conduct the research that we conduct through the university but also put? Put, the student services in place so that we can continue to support the populations of students that we serve. We have many nontraditional students by that meaning, students were not in that kind of eighteen to twenty four year old undergraduate. Adrian are average students, twenty seven years old on. But we have a lot of students that comes through in that are better older than that as well. I. I was a nontraditional student free. Apple Myself as well. enduring during my graduate education. So So, so we've instituted Again required mass policies. We're going to have a testing on campus. All of our classrooms are going to have desk space at least six feet apart, were going to have specialized stay shields for any faculty. Choose the teach in person, and we gave that option to our faculty. If they were feeling comfortable or say they, they're not going to be required teaching person. They can teach online or distance, which is why I. I think the majority of our courses are going to end up being online for this coming all. But we do have some courses in particular workforce development programs and our our health care programs that do require you to be at person. But even in those cases, we instituted kind of all those safety protocols with the masks and social distancing and and occupancy maximums for all different spaces for doing education and training. In so students your thoughts to hear from you. We are live today, one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, got a caller online. Let's go ahead and say, hi to Joyce who's in wounded, knee, South Dakota listening in on K.. I L. I. Joyce. Thank you for giving us a ring. You're on. Air. Thank you for having me and my thought is about. The virus. Where we have. A. Back, Jeremy and Sharon. Who was? Deaf person that put our orders in pace. Votes and ridden be in and out and each put a many show. Our safety in price and not many of our five thousand. People are touch by the virus and now want to congratulate in K.. Dank to to Julian that here. As Pie Orchid. When he? became president and I hear. About other. Native, make a nation. Our leaders are young and are helping us to keep us safe. And that's to come account make. Joyce. It's good to hear your voice. Thank you for calling in wounded knee, and she's tuned in on Keeley radio and the movements, the thoughts, and all the consideration that goes into You know how to react to. This is tribal leaders is educators. There's a lot there in one. Just give both of you a moment If there's any thoughts that you have of actions that have been taking to make sure that the covid nineteen is not spreading faster than it can or even just to keep communities safe, and in any aspect that you have witnessed there in Alaska Pearl, anything won't share. Absolutely I think One of the great things that that has done is really in some ways, people are further apart of social distancing. But in some ways, people are are even more than they were before and it's really allowed. I think allow people to think about different ways in which they connect and make meaningful connections in these times when maybe we can't be face to face, but there's other opportunities and isn't it exciting in some ways to think about all the technology is available. Now I love that zooming is a new verb that we get to us because that's what we seem to be doing all the time all day, but even I've loved seeing on. The connections, I loved seeing people posting on facebook. They had a a zoom family meal or they celebrated a birthday and so I think that this is a great opportunity to think about different ways where that we're connecting. But I also think it's also brought to light some of these discrepancies that we see and so glad Yvonne brought it up because one of the things that is difficult is that we still Still, have a huge disproportionate number of people in Rural Alaska who don't have connected, and WHO's either access to Internet. Access is really low or is really prohibitive because of the cock associated with with Internet access and so that is something that has been very much on our minds at the college when we're thinking about encouraging all of the distance education, what how do we make sure that our students are? Poised for success given that many of them don't have this access or that it is cost prohibitive. We have looked at a lot of different options We have technology to loan out. We also have are going to look at some stipends for Internet for our students and really thinking outside the box, and how we can support our students in many ways, and that has been i. think a really great. Opportunity for us because some of the things that we're thinking about now are things that we could have been doing all along and so it. We're going to take this as in the most positive ways we can learn from it and move forward, and I think that in some way very exciting. Indeed, even listen minute any final thoughts. Yeah I just wanted to extend my gratitude to all of our tribal leaders across the state who been putting in the. Efforts to keep their communities safe and protected. A lot of our tribal governments across Alaska again released strict requirements for people being able to travel in or out of their communities. and I think that they been really effective. In helping to slow the spread of. The virus into our villages and science want to extend my gratitude to our tribal leaders across the state for for those for those efforts. All right. Thank you for that, and that's going to wrap up our our. You just heard from Yvonne Peter, and Dr. Pearl Brower also, thanks to Robert. Clarke for joining us today and tomorrow we're inviting you back. It is our July book of the month. We'll have LEO kills back with US talking about his book, a secret people which looks into Cheyenne way of life in governance. We hope you'll join us for that. Also giving away copies of his book I'm Tara. Gate would. Smoking gave me, COPD, which makes it harder and harder for me to. Have a tip for you. If your doctor gives you five years to live, spend it. Talking with your grandchildren explained to her grand personnel can be around anymore to share his wisdom and his noth- I haven't figured out how to do that. Yet I'm running out Dr. COPD makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free help call one, eight, hundred quit now a message from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Hello IHS tribal and urban Indian health centers take protecting your health. seriously. We're open and ready to serve you contact your local Indian health care provider for more information visit healthcare dot Gov, or call one, eight, hundred, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six, a message from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Native America calling is produced anniversary national, native Voice Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantum Broadcast Corporation, and native nonprofit media organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the public. Radio satellite. Service Music is by Brent Michael Davids native voice one. Native American Radio Network.
Ep. 58: Answering Your Questions, Part 10
"I'm Joe Somali and I'm miles nolte and do you not take yourself too seriously when you fish because we short l.. So if you're interested in gleaming some nuggets of angling wisdom laced with obscure movie references and pointers on lures that haven't been popular since one, thousand, nine, hundred, seven tuned into bent join us every Friday morning for an audio dose of smelling salts to get you even more jacked up for your weekend on the water not only listening to bent one hundred percent guaranteed to not help you catch fewer fish it also. Probably won't help you get fewer dates. The bent podcast is presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company, which is cool. Because not only does black rifle support the veteran and military community through sales of their totally delicious roast to order coffee. But did you know that founder Evan Hey for also used to be a fishing guide? Therefore, he understands that legit anguish thrive on coffee and subsequently. So do people that make podcast. So we ever sound jittery. Now you know why checkout mediators news fishing podcasts wherever podcast and premade shrink wrap sandwiches are served. As a guide hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating hard one experiences into tips and tactics. They'll get you closer to your ultimate goal success in the field. I'm romy. Warren this is cutting the distance. Welcome back it is. And Answer Week. So I'm taking the things you want to know all your burning questions and I'm going to be answering them this week on the podcast I really liked to do these QNA's because I believe that everybody has a little bit of different experience or wants to know something different than maybe I don't think about and so this is a great way. If you've got questions, you've listened to the podcast maybe you're trying new tactics or your new hunting and maybe the things I'm talking about. Her to advanced there's no question too simple or two. I would say technical whatever you guys WanNa ask feel free to ask and I try to read through as many as I can, and I think that there will be a lot of value added information this week. especially I'm really pumped. We've got a lot of response on so many good tactics that people have been using been successful for elk already, which is awesome. That's the whole goal here. So this is dive into these QNA's right now. The first one here comes from Nick. He says, my question is how important is opening day out West we hear all the time on the meteor podcast about eastern states in the odds decreasing significantly if you aren't out on opening day. Does that apply to Western firearm hunts and if so how much he says I'm planning on going to some national forest land and went to get as far as from roads as possible but wondering how where the bucks will be after opening day. Also, this being his I hunt in the laws allow any buck he's planning to take whatever he can. You just loves good meat in his goal is to harvest something himself. Even forty thinks for putting out the awesome podcast especially for the information that helps new hunters like me with no mentor to find ways to get out in the woods. I really appreciate that question Nick and that's a great question. There is very quite a few other similar questions about how important is opening day. Honestly, it's not that important and here's why I think this is the difference based on the style of hunting. You're planning getting away from roads getting away from people. You're already going to be limiting a lot of contact even opening day or not. As the seasons progress opening date is really good for if you're out ahead of the season scouting and you get the first crack at maybe something you have located if you've been scouting and you're hunting specific book yes. You need to be there opening day because somebody else might get to it. It might get moved around. You never know what's GonNa Happen You just want to be their first chance you can get. But through my guiding through hunting over the years, many of the time places that I hunt I don't have I can't get their opening day ago when I can I've found that better than opening day is the weekdays after opening day if possible or any weekdays outside of the weekends if you can swing it because a lot of people almost everybody hunts opening day that lives nearby I've noticed the traffic significantly decreases shortly after even that second week of the season great time there's always fewer people out that second week that first week. I personally a lot of hunts plan on finding the time that there's fewer hunters out. Maybe. The animals have been stirred around a little bit but that's okay. I will have less competition while I'm out there and a little bit more opportunity for those animals to go back to their normal habits and their normal routine when you're comparing western hunting, maybe eastern states and a lot of those eastern states people are hunting kind of on small parcels they don't have A. Lot of places to go. Maybe they're hunting ten acres, twenty acres whatever opening days the best because there's so many people out that dates running things back and forth in pushing animals around out west. When you're hunting big tracks, public land, you can go to where those animals are innocent completely different ballgame. So missing out on opening day I don't think is a game changer is. That in some cases, if the season's early might be better off waiting 'til later you might get some more rutting action or waiting till. There's fewer people out and you can just hunt the animals once they go back to their routines but I do of personally hunting opening day because it's the first day get out and if you have anything pre scouted or preplanned, you can make an initial move on it. So opening day can be great, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. Next question says, era eremita really liked the podcast I've been listening from the beginning and really enjoy it. You've talked in the past about how to burn and being successful I'm a Colorado resident and drew elite season cow for December. Fifteenth to January fifteenth as of right now, my entire hunting unit is in on fire. Should I turn the tag back and wait until next year or do you think it might be worth trying this year thanks can't wait to put your tips to good use this year. Good luck this season. That is a great question and I also got many questions about fires in areas. Based on what I'm seeing here a late season hunt, December fifteenth to January fifteenth, you absolutely need to hunt this tag. This may be your best chance on this unit for CALC in my opinion October, early season fires, August summer, even in October fires that same year on what I'm assuming if there's a December fifteen, th to January fifteenth season their winter range fires on the winter range that same year can be extremely extremely productive because what you're going to get enough time to put that nutrients back in the ground you're. GonNa get a ton of green up on those open slopes in the sun that time of year I would absolutely hunt those burns you're gonNa have better visuals be able to see through some of that brush and other things it's going to be easier to spot the the elk are going to be out feeding, and there's going to be incredible food sources for them. Because of that fire, it may be the best time for that specific type of tag based on those season dates when the fire is and the fact that cow. I would absolutely hunt. Next question says in four years into archery elk hunting and I'm trying to harvest any legal via any style stocking calling Tristan doesn't matter. I can regularly plan a hunt and find elk and fresh sign but seemed to be at a wall for going from knowing there in the area to getting shot opportunities says he has three oak areas where he's found strong signed fresh wallows and smell the don't respond to my location check calling bull or cow calls, and he can't find a good glossing location because of cover he's camped in proximity but hasn't heard any nighttime bugling as well. Do, you have suggestions for this situation. First Choice second choice the choice in how to weigh the options based on circumstances for getting on silent elk in areas. You know they're hanging out with fresh sign smell, but we're you can't pinpoint their location so far has goto methods have been calling instill hunting, but he assumes he needs to be patient and put in the time. My thoughts are greatly appreciated Paul Paul that's a great question and I think a lot of people probably run into this. So you've you've got into an area it's obviously you're hunting more timber area and you're getting in there you're finding. You're seeing sign of elk, but you just aren't finding the out. So I guess you have to ask yourself these few questions, I, what time years it are you not hearing elk during the Prime Rut and are you finding this sign while you're hunting or you finding the sign prior to this peak? Rut like are you finding the sign in the summertime and then you're going in there during peak? Rut Or is this an earlier season where it might not be that mid-september season because that's going to be a big difference you know if it's earlier in the season, you're hearing anything but you're seeing that sign. That would tell me that the ochre still in there, but they just aren't really being vocal that time of year. Now, if you're in their between I'd say September fifteenth and. September twenty eighth in you aren't hearing any elk make any noise. You probably need to find a new area or maybe they were in that area but you might WanNa. Check some other spots around there because maybe they've slightly moved off. That's always a good indicator because you know you're hunting September the elk. Some point that's how they're finding each other. If they aren't calling right where you're at maybe they've moved off now let's say those other two things that I've mentioned don't come into play here the ochre in the area you know they're they're right now you just can't figure them out. I actually. Don't know the regulations in this state that you live in. But if a trail cameras legal put trail camera on some of those wallows and see if you're getting elk moving in what times they are. If you do that, you don't see any animals aren't hearing them then once again, move on finding new spot. You can also hunt a different way and say look this spot you found sign you found other things, but you aren't getting any vocal elxsi can't pinpoint them during hunting season maybe be more mobile check more places in don't look for sign only look for elk that are a noise. So when you hear L. Okay, there's elk here I know they're here right now physically now I've pinpointed their location and I can haunt him and that might. Mean trying to find new spots, new places, but it's not a bad idea to try to be patient. If he know those ochre coming in, you've got trail camera pictures you got signed they might not be making noise, but you know for a fact there then yeah it's going to be a patient's game and I would maybe try using that knowledge of when they're hitting the wallows to waiting and stand hunting them that would be my suggestion. In one more added thing in combination to Stan hunting him. Throw out some of those cow calls and maybe try to call in a bowl that's just cruising by itself. Just checking groups a cows that's GonNa come in silence you might be set up you can do some cal calls, and then if you know that that water source or whatever's getting hit because you've got pictures and finish if sign than hunt it. Says dear me when hunting big game, what strategies do you have for going to the bathroom primarily number one in a way that reduces the risk of being detected. This is a really big oversight, my part and something I haven't been giving enough consideration I tend to p and a whole and covered up Ba- listening to your podcasts of made me think more about what I'm doing in the field and how I prepare especially with winds. INSENT considerations thinks again Charles. Here's my thought on that I don't even think about it. There's no part of me, but it also depends on what kind of hunting you're doing. If I'm Tristan hunting the whole thing whatever's great. If I'm in a blind eye, generally carry a bottle so to get out but I have peed behind my blind had elk and deer come in and no problems I think of it like this they're going to smell you and they're. Probably, may not care about where you've been so much. If every time a coyote peed on the ground and Nelken deer ran away from that area, they would constantly be running. Now I'm sure there'll be plenty of people that will debate me to the core on this, but I do not believe that it really makes that much of a difference especially when we're talking like Western big game hunting, it's so much land at so much area. You know I wouldn't even really consider it. Now the things that I do consider if I know Ilker hitting a certain area I'm not GonNa pee there. I've just gonNA move off somewhere else if I can. But for the most part I don't really think twice about it it might just be a waste of time but if you can cover it up great if you're stand hunting you might want to have more consideration about it other than that keep the wind right and you should be fine. Thanks Kirsten says the past couple of years antelope hunting I've tried to gain either access to private land or at least access to land state land in privately, and we're I'm noticing tons of antelope I've knocked on doors and made phone calls asking for permission sometimes great conversations others not so good but I always seem to get shutdown permission to either cross or to. Be On someone's land money is an issue for me. So it's hard for me to bribe with cash as well as I've offered manual labor from myself to help out on ranches, but it seems that these landowners still say, no, no matter what any chips, our conversation tips to use when talking to private landowners to get more. Yes. Answers instead of knows. Thank you, nick. Here's my thought on that Nick and unfortunately I'm really bad at asking for permission as well and I realized that and I'm not even necessarily bad asking for permission to do it. So I just find better public land spots and that is just the way that I've hunted. I mean really look into whatever state you're hunting. There's so many different programs like access. Yes programs. Block management programs. Every state's got different name for him where the state actually leases private lands for public hunting. Now it's kind of makes it. Yes. The like public land but there are some really good places that you can hunt like that. If you don't like permission have to ask for permission. Sir Researching some of those areas as well as researching more public land options. I mean I wish that there is a secret ingredient to say, here's a talk landowner and I know some people are good at it. I. Just don't like having to ask people and do that because I'm not really good at that kind of like just going up random people and asking them hey, can I hunt your property because I know if it was my property I'd be like Hell No, you can't hunt here I want to hunt if anybody's going to hunt is going to be if you've lied no. So for the most part I would say instead of spending your time doing that spend time really just trying to find better public land areas. Now, the fact that you go out there and ask these people I would say that's a great. You have a skill. Set that I say I don't even have. So I would continue to do that the to be able to just go talk to these people. You know just like the more times you try. Probably you get a lot of knows but one day you will get a yes and I know a lot of people that do that and do get yeses. So I would say continue doing what? You're doing but also really just use your on maps, look into some of that publicly and try to find some better public land spots and then look at to whatever state you're at and try some of those places that are private land that have those features of land. But you don't necessarily have to ask for permission or it has a system set up on how to ask for permission. I think that's a lot easier. We've got a question here says. Question on proper sight alignment for multi pinball sites I consider myself a pretty decent shot with a rifle past life was in the infantry. So lots of training and repetition feel comfortable in the gun wrote for bose have been self taught since getting my first bow fifteen years ago I've always centered the pin on my website for my yardage getting ready for early season something struck me to center the circular housing of my site on the site. So my question is the proper sight alignment centering the pin within the circle or the PEOP- sight or lining the two circles of housing and the PEOP- in hold the right pane on the target. Says, hope to hear from you ribs as a great question, the questions kind of a little bit complicated. So He's essentially asking how'd you align your your sight and your site I always align the circular housing to my peeps. So what I try to do is I try to match up where my peep sight I do this different ways. So you can do it by sizing your to your site or moving your site in and out and doing a combination of both so there's different sized peep sites I try to go with a little bit smaller. Especially if I'm going to have my site a little bit further out. In what I like to do is I like to center my peop-. where it kind of makes it concentric circle from the outside of the site housing that I'm looking at some pictures, of site, Housing Alec. Inside. The outside of the site where it's like if it's got a white line or whatever it's not inside the site, but it's also just like matches up the sizing of my sight housing. So I like to lie my site housing peop-. So there are two circles that are exactly the same size. That way I know if I'm off a little bit when I draw back and you use whatever pin. For the yardage on that. So I always center my site housing into my peeps. So that way it's consistent it's the same every time I know that I'm looking through it exactly the same every time my site actually has like different housing faces and has got different color rings on it so I can try to line my peop- up with the center ring. So then I know if it's off a Little Bit I'm using a fast Eddie xl spot hogg one, and then I'll all adjust my sight. So it matches my perfectly and I've found that doing that really helps me maintain all those things that you need to maintain to make. Good bow shot. So if you're gonNA make a good bow shot like a perfect bow shot means you're doing the same thing correct every time and it's nearly impossible. To do exactly the same every time, but that's the goal. Right that's that's when you get to arrows to go to the same place. So it all include your grip it include your anchor and helping with that anchor is how you're looking at the site through your peop-, and so I really like to line those things up to kind of benefit and make sure that I'm anchored in the same place. Hey. Romy and mediator crew. First of all great job, I listen to inordinate amount of podcast while driving from work in most from the Meat Eater Network, I've listened to every episode of cutting the distance at least twice. So maybe I missed something it seems when I'm glossing for Dear California archery. So mid to late summer, I only turn them up at night and can never stock into Bahrain before shooting laid is up to follow that up I never seem to find them the next morning either do you have any tips on glossing bucks in the am and how to find them the next day if spotted at sunset Do deer typically feed in the morning on eastern slopes or northern or is hit and miss thanks for the PODCAST, keep it up Ben. That's a great question Ben and I kind of seen this in some areas from experience. Generally, I'm going sume a few things here. So I'm GONNA assume that you're hunting mule deer, but I'm also GonNa then simultaneously assume that you might be hunting black tails they do behave a little bit differently black tails tend to be more forest dwelling creatures more a lot like consider their habits a lot more like white tails they hold a very small range and they are very intimate with that range. They knew that range really well, and it's generally in thicker cover. So if you're seeing the deer come out in the And their black tails that's probably because they're they're moving closer to the cover of darkness, and then they're already in that cover in the mornings or whatever. If you are not seeing them come back out in the morning. So what I would suggest then is still hunting those areas nearby or planning on setting up for them to come out and try to build a pattern for them to come out in the and try to understand the pattern of those. Dear. Now, we're going to go the flip side of that if we're talking mule deer or even maybe like a mule deer black till hybrids, you kind of get into. That weird mixed. But if you're spotting them, let's say the mule deer they're out in the open in the evenings and then you just can't catch them in the mornings. It might have a little bit to do with the sun in how hot it gets early season. So they might be coming out in the evenings and then feeding through the night, I would say plan on looking on the opposite side of where they're coming out in the morning. So if it's a one ridge and they're out in the evenings, say on a south facing slope, they might be on the north slope in the morning because what's going to happen? Is that North Slope will have that keep that sun longer so that north face is going to be shaded longer and maybe there's just feeding and that and they're just feeding close to their bedding areas to go do their initial bed somewhere on that hillside because it's GonNa, stay shaded and then they're gonna go bed permanently. So I would definitely focus on those north faces early in that hot summer especially if there's a little bit of an opening nearby where maybe that might play into a little bit. So I think focusing on those two things will really help you locate different times not just later another thing to think. About is maybe on those areas where you've seen the buck kind of figure out where were these deer betting? Why is it feeding in this particular area? Is this cover that it's coming out and going into maybe it's home range or is it just kind of like passing through if you're seeing a lot of bedding near near that on maybe a different slope or that same area they know okay. Well, they're betting here. Where's they're betting area? Here's feeding in the evening where's the logical places they might be feeding in the morning because they probably are feeding in the morning, but it might be a little bit more income ever. So just kind of extrapolating that and then focusing on those areas I think you'll have a lot more success. Question comes from Nick. Quite a few knicks this week like it. Says I've been elk hunting for the past few years and have had some opportunities, but it hasn't worked out I. Think my biggest problem is being able to stay on elk. I can usually find them within the first day or two, but then I spook them never seem to find them again any advice on relocating. I appreciate all the advice that you provide as an adult onset hunter I appreciate any valuable information I can get. Those a great question. You know if you blow it, what do the do now? Elk have their certain patterns but when they get pressured, then they start to do what I call like loops or safety loop. So they like certain area and they might even hang out there forever unless they get bumped and then you bump and it's like we'll what happens generally I find that they have these like. loops. So they've got these areas that they go to through safety so you've pushed them. Many oak might go back to that same place in next day or the next couple of days. If you aren't seeing that that I would say every third fourth day, they might be back into that area. Now, you've got to figure out where they going in between there and you have to find areas close by that have similar things to where you found them but might be in a direction or a different direction of travel where they're going. If it's a super highly pressured area in you spook them, they might end up just staying. In cover and you know being in a smaller area but staying tightly in a place where the aren't getting bothered. So look at a map, pull up your map say what's a place that is very difficult for people to get to for predators you get two for these elk where they're gonNA stay stay for the longest period of time non interactive with anyone look for those areas, and that's probably where the pressure Ilker going to be. But for the most part I think a lot of people bump elk and think, oh, it's over I've spooked. This isn't going to happen again and then leave when in actuality there's been many times that I've spooked elk elk and then found them in similar areas in the same place a day or two later or even maybe just within a couple miles of where they've been spooked. So it kind of depends on habits and the elk in that area, and if you definitely aren't seeing them again even. After a couple of days or whatever. Then I would say start focusing on those places that they can go to. They aren't going to get that pressure those those holes pockets, those little protected areas that seem out of the way where they're going to be able to hang out and be unpressured again, and that's a great way to focus in on elk that do get pressure or have been bumped. I. Really appreciate everybody's questions. Keep those questions coming because we're going to go through a few more QNA's throughout the the coming months. But before we do those next week I think a lot of people I get a lot of questions about people traveling for hunts and other things. So next week, I just want to talk about some traveling hunter meet care. One of the things that I really promote is getting out of your comfort zone trying something new going to a new place hunting something different maybe you're. A Guy that's been listening to this podcast and you live in the Midwest or eastern. US, and you're like man elk hunting sounds awesome antelopes running sounds awesome. You go on a hunt out but how do you get the meat back? That is one of the most important things in something that I've become an expert on because I deal with it all the time I'm actually just getting ready to head out to remote place in Alaska and I'm like gotTA. Make sure my meat prep in meet CARE is on. Point because I need to make sure that I get all that meet back home in good condition and ready to be eaten. The worst thing that I could ever imagine is going on a hunt spending all that time and not taking the proper care of the meat to get home safely. So I'M GONNA. Go over my tips for that next week, and then if you got other things, you want to talk about other topics feel free to reach out social media instagram's great way to do it I'll be posting. And sharing stories and all my hunts and other things on my at Romy warn instagram. So if you don't follow me over there, check that out I. think he'll like it during the season on be sure and some of these hunts that I talk about, and then also I'll be able to get your questions and comments and other things. So it gives me a good idea of the things. Everybody wants to hear about the topics that we talk about on this podcast. So I appreciate you guys until next week. Keep the questions coming. Wheels calculator.
Arctic Drilling In Alaska?! Barry Whitehill, Fran Mauer and Hal Herring On Conserving A Unique Landscape
"Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the PODCAST. My name is Dennis in today Kevin and I are joined by Berry Whitehill hell hearing in Fran Mahler. We talk about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge the INS and outs in a little bit of history over the last forty or fifty years with a couple of guys who spent a majority of their careers working in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. I will let them introduce themselves in just a second and I thank you for listening to our podcast. So, without further ADO. The legends. Yeah this is kind of like the legends podcast I. Thank Angie. Swears that there's six degrees of Berry Whitehill that everyone knows him very closely at some point writer they know someone who knows Berry kind of a probably a little bit of a a legend in the Arctic and all that stuff I know the trip that I did up there just riding in a car various like, oh, I took this river three weeks down to these talk to these elders and Hal, and I did a trip up there at the same time and like the next morning Berry was planning another trip flying in somewhere and then of course, we have hal herring I think as far as noted journalists conservationist author He's fairly well known in these circles and then friend our than than Dennis Myself. So let's let everyone get a little bit of A. Here Let's go just kinda clockwise berry. How're you doing? Good Hey, thanks, Kevin So I grew up in eastern Washington but I was one of those kids teenager I had a premonition that I was GonNa die in Alaska. So I knew evitable and. My former wife who died of brain cancer sadly was a biologist for fish and wildlife. In the time we lived in northern Nevada which she aided the Brown and She came home one day said I'm applying for a job in Alaska. So if I get it a movement taking the kids you can come up when you're ready. So bed just cast it wasn't my. My doing but so moved up that was twenty eight years ago and It's it's been a good fit great place to raise kids My two boys one lives in Brighton Utah and one lives in. In, Missoula and I know growing up, they took it for granted. But you know being outdoors hunting I pack the oldest one at three months while his is mother killed a nice bowl elk so The die was cast whether they liked it or not. Still follow in those footsteps. And then my career was us fish and Wildlife Service. So I got paid to play by doing lot of rivers I started out. Arctic National Wildlife Refuge helping out with your Falcon surveys. So. I got the flow river click the Conga cut and the canning but I was primarily I community National Wildlife Refuge near Battles Alaska and Allakaket, and then transitioned over to Yukon flats which is Small in comparison to Arctic National Wildlife. Refuge. But still almost twelve million millionaires with several villages associated with it. So that's where I ended my career at Yukon flats national wildlife refuge. And I live in Fairbanks Alaska. The. Awesome. How? What do you say on? I'd like to take more trips in the Arctic. Catch. I'm from I'm originally from North Alabama I grew up there lived their about twenty five and we had we did some similar stuff. I was a planner for warehouse or paper company was really one of my first. Like real jobs. So we're we had a Ho Dad grew down in Mississippi and Alabama. North Florida. That was really kind of a weird thing I. picked up the Khodadad, which is a do. I. Think. We lost so. Our. Someone shot. Hell. Yeah. This is Fran I live here in Fairbanks Alaska, grew up in west Central Minnesota. when I was quite young My. Father who was farming at the time showed me some native artifacts that he found in the fields stone hammer heads and arrowheads and things like that. And He explained to me that you know the Great Plains was used to be vastly different than it was when I was a child. The the big vice and hurts and native American many different tribes, native Americans. Out. On the land pursuing the Bison. And I was held in my mind the idea of what that must have been like. Before Europeans. Set Foot in the Great Plains and the Rocky Mountains. And that became kind of. Deep. Feeling inside me I. Graduated from. High School. got a degree in wildlife at South Dakota State University. Put in two years during the Vietnam era. In the US army. Got Out and Came to Fairbanks, Alaska, to attend graduate school. Ultimately got a degree and. So allergy and was fortunate to land a job with the US fish and Wildlife Service shortly afterwards. And To I was involved with planning for proposed National Parks while eiffage refuges, wilderness areas well, Gruber's. prior to passage of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act. And it was pretty exciting time I feel like it was the highlight of my career at the very beginning and the rest was all downhill after that. But. The law was finally passed in late nineteen eighty created over one hundred, million acres of protected lands in Alaska. When that was over I transferred as well. Biologists to the Arctic refuge in nineteen. Eighty one. Work there for twenty one years as well as biologists. Studying, mostly Caribou and calving grounds. Moose. Stall she birds spray or the main Items I got involved with these mostly associated with. assessment of fish and wildlife and their habitats on the coastal plain fugit was required. By Act of Congress. In Fact. I've been involved with the controversy over drilling in the Arctic refuge. Since that time. And within in just about Five months from now I'll be. I'll have lived in Alaska for. Fifty. Years. I got a lot of living to do to catch up with you. Well. That's all I got to say. Okay. Back to how real quick. I'll. I'll make it brief from. The will I came back to I came to Montana who probably twenty, eight, thirty years ago. Alba. Worked in the woods. Here did a lot of stuff I became Godman environmental journalist. I'm a contributing editor fielded stream cover confirmation for them. Working on a book on American Public Lands Right now. wrote a book on historic firearms which gave me a bunch of history. For Awhile I'm a writer reporter. I still do some woods work every year with bureau of Land Management Mule Deer Foundation Planting Sagebrush but. Kevin did that trip with Barry we've we saw some big country up there. I just touched the edge of it. Is. Of that far out like to see a lot more do agree. As. Far As the film, we did a film this year where we we were in forty-eight gone with the. and. They at that was one of the great drips of my life is this was just last summer. And they talked they talked to me about the importance of the coastal plain in their culture and their their lives. And I couldn't have been more. Kind of blown away by that experience and what I learned in for. Those folks. So so that leads us into. Obviously we're here to talk about the refuge. Right. There's a lot of passion for the refuge. Berry has. Berries very passionate about the refuge. Him. He took Jalan I on a trip. That's really kind of where Helen. I. Forged our friendship. I thought it was absolutely fantastic area. Dall sheep cinema stocks Stuff like that What about the drilling on the coastal plain I mean obviously you drive up the hall road there's the whole. All the oil stuff that you see. Going down at already right. So why why? Would you or why would you not why would you be opposed to the drilling or why would you before it? You go ahead. You're intimately involved with a ten TURIA. Here well I a little bit of history on how the the original Arctic National Wildlife Range got establish. It was finally established during the Eisenhower. Administration in Nineteen. Sixty. But. There was a campaign who designate or to set up and establish one at least one conservation area in America's Arctic region. That started in the early nineteen fifties. with the folks such as a loss and Marty. Murray George Collins or Sumner to National Park Service people. Eerie had worked with the US fish and Wildlife Service and had retired in mid nineteen forties. And the idea was that there ought to be one place in America Arctic set aside and protected in its original condition and safeguarded in its original condition. on into the future. And the managed to succeed in getting A. The National Wildlife was called the Arctic National Wildlife Range at that time. Established for three purposes for. wildlife. wilderness and recreational purposes. Thank goodness it got established before oil had been found. Because if it had not been established before. prudhoe Bay. Probably wouldn't be an Arctic National Wildlife Refuge today. there's an interesting. Connection from a historic standpoint. In that. In nineteen forty, three President Roosevelt in the middle of World War Two. established a public land order called eighty public land order eighty two which set aside and protected the entire northern part of Alaska. From. Home studying mining mineral leasing. Do. Safeguards those lands up there for the possibility of And and for military purposes during the war. That take took all of that land out of access to. Oil companies. And even the state of Alaska when when Alaska became a state. it would have prevented Alaska from. getting state lands under the statehood act. On the North Slope. And a big part of the Alaska of the statehood act. was delayed partly because of the question. Of whether or not Alaska had economic resources to run a state government. And So that land. Order. Was An obstacle to Exploring and looking for oil in the north. Slope of Alaska. compromise Scott Struck late in the Eisenhower Administration. That would set aside the Arctic National Wildlife Range but would lift the restrictions of public land order eighty two, which then pave the way for the state of Alaska to ultimately select lands and obtain. Ownership of the subsurface that held the largest oilfield. Ever found in north. America. And there's been Quite a bit of ex. Proliferation. Of Oilfield infrastructure since Since prudhoe Bay was discovered. In the beginning nineteen, sixty eight. It was just a couple of exploratory. Drill pads on the North Slope. But within. Ten years, the infrastructure had spread over. A distance of twenty miles from east to west. By nineteen eighty, nine, it expanded fifty three miles of infrastructure. By nineteen, ninety nine, it was out to ninety eight miles of of roads, pipes facilities. And about that time satellite images. from outer space, you could see the lights at night. on the planet. Up there on on Alaska's Arctic coastline. By two thousand. Eight. We had an east-west proliferation of infrastructure that stretched over two hundred and sixty miles. The only place left on the North Slope of Alaska. That is not. In category of plant protection. From development is the Arctic while I I, it's the last bit. Of. Our. Arctic Tundra and coastal coastline. That's not available head not Benfield for oil protection for oil development. And there's a protracted. Controversy during LASCA. LANSAC. And for the last forty years. It's been controversial as to whether the while I, it should be open to oil drilling. And finally Due to the political. Makeup of. Congress. And president trump? they were they were the. Proponents for oil drilling and the refuge were successful in getting language in the twenty seventeen tax cut act. That would require lease sales in the Arctic refuge. And just just a few days ago it record of decision. For the environmental impact statement regarding opening the refuge drilling was released by zero five management. So it's expected that there may be a A. Oil lease sale before the end of this year I think that the. The plan is to get. The. Lease Sale Accomplished. Because that will make much more difficult for new administration if there is a new administration. To So things down or work with Congress to. Change. Change, the law and Negate the oil lease sale. So the Arctic refuge is probably the most threatened. It's ever been. In. The last fifty years. Though that's. In. A nutshell, but but in addition. To it, being. Approximately ninety five percent. Of the land and the north slope is in categories of. Land ownership which does not require an act of. Congress. To allow. Oil Development the only place that had been protected prior to twenty seventeen was the arctic refuge. And if you look at a topographic map of the Arctic. Refuge. You'll see that the Brooks Mountain, range. arches up in the northeast corner of the state, of Alaska. And is at its closest. It comes to the closest proximity to the Arctic Ocean in that location. Over to the West west of the refuge at prudhoe Bay. The mountains are about one hundred, ten miles from the Arctic coastline. In the Arctic, refuge. The mountains come within his closest fifteen miles to the Arctic coastline. and. So what that? From an ecological standpoint, what that that land form with the mountains close to the Arctic host it compresses. Of. That a great degree of what of Topography. Vegetation patterns weather patterns. While life, Habitat. It compresses all of these things right up next to the Arctic Ocean and that's what leads to give that area. It's unique diversity. especially for an art degree Jn to illustrate that. What kind of connections you have in the Arctic refuge that do not exist elsewhere across the north slope of Alaska. would be that. we have situations in the Arctic refuge. Where we found polar bears dinning. At the base of the Brooks Range Mountains. with dall sheep looking down at their done site you cannot find that kind of connection between species anywhere else in America's Arctic or anywhere else in in the circum polar region. That's what makes the Arctic refuge. So special in addition the Arctic. In during the LASCO LANSAC, we were able to double the size of the Arctic National Wildlife Range. To nineteen million acres, it's one of the largest conservation areas in the country. And It's the only one. That stretches from salt water across an entire mountain range into the boreal forest south side. All the different habitats from The ice pack. To Significant spruce. And? Birch forest. Are contained in this one protected area it. It the Arctic refuge stands alone. In its wildness. In original condition. It's In most original of any landscape we have left in our country. Oh, that's That's my spiel on it and I of stopped talking for a while but others. Continue this discussion. You know If, you don't mind maybe I can speak to Kinda what Fran touched on how he got into the interest of growing up on the great plan. I was similar to that. My grandparents lived on the edge of the confederated Colville tribe, and in fact. That's really dating myself in Nineteen, seventy, four I started working for us fish and Wildlife Service, and one of my first jobs was to Do special use permits for the sailors elders that came to turnbull national wildlife refuge each spring to dig campus and other routes and I befriended these elders in their eighties at the time and to the point that they shared stories of In one case the one Woman Nancy, flat had married a much older man who was a participated in the last buffalo hunts were how haring is but they would ban together. With the other sailors groups because that is blackfoot country and the only way they can make it over and get buffalo on come back is to have a confederated bunch and so she told stories or husband Sanger buffalo songs, and then the other Nancy indeed her grandfather and another brave hiked with seven pairs of moccasins over probably to around were Gusta is and snuck up on a blackfoot encampment scalp the guy that was tending the horses, the each jumped a horse and grabbed, or so I grew up with those kinds of stories as well and that interest in that landscape. And And for me when I'm like ten days ago when I was on. Arctic. Refuge on a day float. You know that's the one place that I have been in life where you can get up on a hill and SIA forever, which is similar in my mind to the grasslands around Augusta that you can just see into insanity and without a a road trail, a telephone line, and to me that just it brings home exactly the view in my mind would. Somebody like Lewis and Clark would have seen looking out on the landscape and it's the only place I know that's left where I can have that that feeling embodied without being affected by the impact of man. And for me being on that landscape, it's Y- that's telling my soul gets rejuvenated and to lose that for the sake of Especially, at these times cheaper oil I think would be a tragedy for not only me but future generations that will never have a chance to have that feeling again. So that's my take on it. I have a question on own the jeep Wohl. Deal. I understand why now is because the now is the time is ripe to get these leases right. But what's that chance that these leases up being hostage Lisa's like what we saw in the Badger do medicine where they say, well, you we a right to drill if you pay us. Perhaps we will do it given the fact that the barrel prices in time. Is. That is that possible part of this? Does anybody know? I this is Fran I just comment that If you look at the history. Of the oil. Oil Industry in America. It's rich with chicanery. And land speculation. And dishonest we have. That here, her I'll live with the natural gas. Yeah, and and and It's you know that's been announced unfortunately that's that's that's there's longstanding history of. Of Behind. Behind the not upfront and honest dealing. In in with regards to access to drilling and. Development, and exploitation. And I wouldn't count that out these days it's it's It seems seems like such speculative activity. would be consistent with the history of oil development in our country. Experience from the very beginning. And once the lease is done, there is not. The damage is mostly already set up at that point unless you find a way. Out of it correct or or is it just they could lease it and hold onto it for twenty years and not do anything. Well there's there's an interesting Piece of history here in Alaska that I think Is Is, worth considering. That is that In, in Nineteen. Seventy three. Democratic governor of Alaska. Led the legislature. To or or granted. and had least lease lands in catch Mac Bay. Is A Beautiful Bay in the south end of the keanae peninsula spectacular area rich in marine resources such as shellfish in Salmon. And leased it to the oil companies in nineteen seventy three this was a democratic governor who did that In one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, four. We elected governor Jay Hammond, a Republican. And this was before any. Oil money from prudhoe Bay. was falling into the state coffers. The pipeline had not been built yet. and She Hammond convince the the state legislature. To come up with money which was scarce in those days for the State of Alaska invite those leases back. And that's that happened. That is history catch him back is is to this day a beautiful popular recreation. in fishing and tourist place, and there's no development in that area. now I would I would. Take that to the next step. To our political leaders following an election this fall. Would they have the inspiration. To do what's right with the Arctic refuge if there is leases. In come up with the financing to buy those leases back. And say that. But there is a precedent has been done and it was done right here in Alaska believe it or not. But obviously, it's probably not like pay. I paid a hundred bucks for it via one, hundred, five back. They probably fleece you a on that buyback. Or that would be my assumption. Certainly. Yeah. You know. I I wouldn't argue with you about that but I guess. In the case of. The efforts to protect the Arctic refuge from the very beginning. It's been based on. Very. High Ideals. And I think. That these days in our nation's history, we need to return some high ideals instead of just. deciding well that. You know that just can't happen I. Think we need to aim high and not let go of our ideals. That's my point of view it anyway. Perhaps I'm biased because I've. been very fortunate to. Work in wildlife biology up in the refuge for twenty one years. And see a lot of things that. Unfortunately, many other citizens of our country. Have not had the opportunity to see. That I've often felt that if every citizen in our country Could have seen and experienced some of the things that I've been fortunate enough to see there. There wouldn't be a dispute about what to do with the Arctic refuge there the resounding. Cry To, keep this place as it is I would. I would agree wholeheartedly. Kevin in very remember when my son was up there and we're picking those like it's like do. Actually have worse Internet than I do. Well and and that Sorry seeing leave at this point because I was the question I wanted to ask how because his son Harold was fifteen at the time we floated the the refuge on onto Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and it'd be interesting to hear his perception of how that trip may have. Affected his sons path in life for his thoughts on things. So hopefully, how will be back I know in in the case of my two boys You know they took running the ad again gorge as you know tick took it for granted but now that they've moved out of Alaska to the Lesser Forty, eight You know the I think they have a perspective that They really mythos being able to do those kind of things, but it set him on a good pathway in life. And soon as hell he how. While you were gone I was bringing up the point. I was going to ask you. herald was only fifteen at the time when we we floated the river. That did that change his perceptions on thing or set the the cast the you know the pathway for him to go one way or another Veteran the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Sadly? He's he's back in the Sierra right now. For Rock great bags nation he's been there all summer working. So. Yeah, he's. He's dyed in the wool man. But what he was saying on that was he was big those berries and he said you know the people who say this is an Arctic wasteland have never lived on the prairies where I grew up. And what he was mostly impressment on that trip was the bounty. Yeah You have to look close like a lot of places out west, but once you get down and look into. You know a close perspective yeah. There's a lot there for. Her remember from the last camp. We did a hike looking for Caribou. We were out at night. One of the morning I think it was still light out and we were just eating blueberries off the ground as as we went. You know it was. Than the place was just so wild so vast it made you feel very. Insignificant, which is one of the things I love about big wilderness. Yeah. Others. You. Put this out there but on this last trip a couple weeks ago a week and a half ago we hiked Tule Lake. That I'd never hiked to before and we sat above it and all I can say is candice and Michael Were Ruin that they didn't bring a fly rod with them because the rises on that lake were big rises in something tells me there was some lake trout near that hadn't seen a book in generation. So yeah there's a lot there even when the Caribou aren't in for sure in even with the austerity those there's this big Grey Lynn, those eighties Oh, my gosh. was just I let we think we get one of them right but I was just letting him go. But holy smokes were they in and there's not much holden country in that river. But where it is, it's just full of fish. Though I must tell you the elders would probably frown on you on catch and release because. Like the glitch in the ever saying wing-play dot. An animal offers itself to and You don't play with your food. I remember that Squirrel or whatever that offered itself to us. While we were loading up and I did not know that. Kyla is that's that was her name, right? that. She clubbed it over the head with a Caribou Antler and we turned it into a meal at the next stop on the river in was tasty. Give who is really big. Yeah. Yeah So, Fran how? How would opening up drilling affect Caribou and I I have a kind of a multi part question from what I've heard. That central art occurred. which is along the. The Paul. Road. They haven't been doing that well, anyway last survey their numbers were down quite a bit correct. Yeah. There's they've undergone a a dip in their. Abundance over the last six, seven years. in you know in General Caribou populations ebb and flow which is totally natural. And it's sometimes difficult to tease out what causes. These absent flows and and just exactly what influence humans have the picture as well. it's complicated. But some things we do know from long term studies in the Poodle Bay area as the oilfields continued to expand as I mentioned earlier. And there's been extensive studies of. Of displacement. Of. Pregnant females and females have just given birth with their calves. They're a tend to be displaced away from. areas of human activity in and noise construction. Oilfield Activities Basically and. The the displacement. Extends usually extends beyond. A couple of kilometers? And have a network of infrastructure even though it doesn't. Occupy. A huge acreage in Agra good because it's spread out. You end up with a large displacement. Of these House with their young calves. And we think that the reason. That displacement takes place. Is An anti Predator? reaction on the part of the adult females or mother Caribou. In this. Open Environment Tundra. They and they have a youngster this that's still wobbly and and vulnerable cannot. flee a Predator yet. It's important for those cows to be vigilant watching the horizon and when they see movement off in the distance. They start to move their cast away from the trajectory of whatever the disturbed the perception of a disturbance or a potential Predator is and. So it we believe it's it's related to Anti Predator strategy in it results in displacement. Of these animals from their. Original calving grounds. And they go to these specific. Because, the plant. the new plant life that's occurring at the time the calves are born. Is. Essential or Kyle Caribou to. get the high nutrients they need. To. Produce rich milk through the young. which by the way has been tested and measured and and Caribou milk is richest milk known in the mammal were in the land mammal world. Right up there next to the milk. Steals produce. and. This allows the cast grow rapidly. So that they can avoid predators and can move with the rest of the herd as it moves across the landscape. In response to mosquito harassment. And warble fly harassment. And to move Arab their whole strategy major part of their their survival strategy is movement. They they're. They move almost constantly except sometimes during the dead of winter. And their strategy is to optimize. Advantages. Broad landscape. But if you interfere with the most sensitive time where all. The next generation of Caribou. Are these young calves and they're born within four or five days of the entire herd POPs out there. cavs at the same time. they're very vulnerable at that time, and if they're displaced to less favorable landscapes. we expect they'll be higher mortality of the cows so I was involved in. In studying Ridge baseline. Mortality of cavs on the covering grounds as Porcupine Caribou herd, which is the big heard that cavs in the Arctic refuge. And we looked at. geographic locations of where calves were born in how well they survived. During. This Needle time period. And again. To interpret. What happens with the Caribou herd over at Poodle Bay remember I. mentioned that. Over there, the mountains are a hundred, two, hundred, ten miles from the from the coastline. It's a broad. Expanse of. Coastal Plain Tundra in the Arctic refuge his. Or keeping hurt which is. More than five crimes as large as the central Arctic career. squeezes into a calving habitat. That's only one fifth. As, much as what's available? For the Central Arctic hurt the central Arctic urges again. About a fifth as biggest porcupine hurt. But it has five times as much habitat the displaced onto. So we don't see. A. Severe impact. On, these calving animals in Poodle Bay area although they are displaced. but if you put a oilfield in this narrow strip of coastal plain and the Arctic refuge where five times as many care we'll come to calve. You can expect to have greater. Mortality of young calves and that translates ultimately into Kurt decline. and. There's another basic principle that large Caribou herds mixed total sense large-calibre hurts. By fast ranges small Caribou. Herds. have. Smaller home ranges So. If you reduce porcupine Caribou herd. In a significant manner, they're going to occupy a smile range in the population is lower and that's going to result very likely result in. In poor hunting success for the native peoples in North West Canada. In Northeast Alaska to get the care they they've been relying on for thousands of years. So That's Some nail script sketch of. What could happen if there's If there's Oilfield Development in the Arctic refuge with regards to care. So it would affect the porcupine potentially more than would the central Arctic because it's a much smaller area that they cavin? Yeah that's that's a basic principle of that's really the basis of. Of. The. Differences between the two hurts and expected outcome if there's oil development in the Arctic refuge. It's based on those principles for the most part. Also after the cavs have grown a bit and they're able to escape predators more easily. They also still come under mosquito harassment which gets very horrendous up there. And late June and on in well into July. And these Caribou needs to have. Free and unimpeded. Landscape to move across in order to. Get to insect released habitat. There's a variety of insect relief habitat. That does exist. When conditions wind direction are. Are such that it's advantageous for Caribou to move to the coastline where there's cool breezes. And Ice. They do. So I've seen. I've seen as many as. Tens of thousands of Caribou out on the Arctic Ocean ice. Pack. Seeking relief from the -squitoes. So if they're blocked unable to get there because of pipes and roads. they're going to suffer. Losses. From from, cheer mosquito harassment or loan. And some of the other habitats they moved to is a mountain ridges to the south. And again, if they're impeded or or impacted in getting free access to those areas. Suffer This there's influences on on their survival in that regard. There's a third. More limited places for insect relief which are the ICEFIELD. that form from springs. That come out of the out a emerge onto the landscape. In the coastal plain or near the coastal plain of the refuge these big fields during winter because springs flow year round. And there's more springs. Brooks range in the Arctic. Refuge higher density springs than anywhere. Else across Alaska North Slope. We have the only to hot springs. Her north of the divide. The Brooks range are in the Arctic. Refuge. That's a special place in many regards. Around those springs there's Plant. That are unheard of. In Arctic Tundra Situation. Species a plants that occur forest to the south. are found years those. Springs. and unique populations of invertebrates. and. Dolly Parton Char. Found, unique to some of the springs in found nowhere else very special places. So. It's complicated. Caribou have variety of potential insect relief habitat. But if you throw a network of pipes and roads and human activity, there's going to be a further problems for them drink insect release season. eventually migrate off. Most of the porcupine herd leaves the Coastal Plain. Before winter. Later in summer usually. but as a heard has increased size, recently, we are seeing some of the porcupine herd remain. north of the mountains even in winter. There's a lot of stuff that's happened there biologically. Safe ran will you're talking about the hot springs of I've hiked into? The sube Lickin knows I could never find the hot I could always find a little bit of warm. Is there a place where you can find it real hot yeah. There's a hot spring I hate to even doug old location. No it's okay. It's in the it's in the appeal like river valley. North edge of the mountains and is truly hot I-. I sampled at once while I was flying some musk ox surveys and In the early eighties, we landed airplane on skis and. In April, it was probably ten below zero at the time. We had we had skis with US and. skied up from where we landed the airplane and. Every you out on the north slope. At that time of the year. End, below zero. Every instinct you have tells you whatever you do. Don't take off your warm clothes. In spite of that, we peeled off or warm clothes and hopped into this little tiny depression. In. Soil where the water was pulled it was probably only about. Five feet by five feet. scrunched down in there and it was I. think it was about one hundred and two degrees it was. Really Nice. But there is another warm. I guess it would call it a warm spring over by Red Hill at the west end of the SALVADRO cheap mountains. That's the one I stuck my finger into the hiked into at one time. Yeah it's I would call it a warm spring but not a hot spring. But those are the only two that are warm. North is a divide in the brooks range. It's just it's just a wonderful place has. All, this landscape and diversity and characteristics that. That are. That are compressed into relatively small area. And then on top of it, all you have one of the largest herds in North America squeezing in there and giving birth to their cast. It's Quite a spectacular, well phenomenon. I wish more people. Could experience it personally because if they could. I think more people can be convinced that. This place needs to be protected. Kept I've been. I've been trying to talk angie into a trip there but I think she's scared but I also don't have to convince her that needs to be protected either. Yeah. Well, that's a wonderful thing that many people do get it. And don't. Realize that they may not ever get there but they want to know that there is such a place still exists. In that remain that way for those who come after us that's what conservation is all about. Is that principle that we don't destroy everything that? That really was the birthplace species in the first place. Long long long time. Ago. that. We keep. As, much of it as we possibly can. Offer everyone to know where we where we came from as a species actually. Now. I'm looking at a map of so excuse me if I ask a dumb question, right but I see this giant area called the National Petroleum Reserve. Quite a bit to the West. GIF. Why why would someone want to do something on the coastal plain when it looks like there's a, there's a giant area elsewhere. Yeah well, the National Petroleum Reserve Alaska was actually established. Because of a previous war we'll. One was the first war that was fought where petroleum resources were. Critical to. became used in. In fighting wars Some of the first airplanes were used in World War One instance. So in nineteen, twenty, three. President Warren Harding Established the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska. So twenty six million acre. Areas huge. And because even though they hadn't found commercial or large deposits of oil there yet. reports of oil seeps and and early geological. Investigations along the Arctic coastline where these oil seeps were. Led geologists to believe that. There's likely oil in that region in that area was set aside at that time. But yeah, it's And there's valuable wildlife habitat in and that pre. National Petroleum Reserve as well. It's that. As you can see on your map it's very. Long Distance. Even more than one hundred and ten miles from the mountains to the coast. It's more like a hundred fifty miles from the mountains to the coast across. Parts of National Petroleum. Reserve. So it's a different landscape and the different Array of space and well lies Habitat. That there certainly has some unique and special while values there as well. And the oil industry has been expanding more and more to the West. into destroying, reserve. Since about the late nineteen eighties. See A. Friend, can I ask a question was all your years of biological research on the Arctic National? Wildlife Refuge, do you have any lessons learned about? Getting out to that landscape and and doing being on the ground that you might impart on listeners that might Wanna come up and and do some kind of. Activity on Arctic National. Wildlife. Refuge. What are some? Some good lessons that you think you've learned working out there. Well. One of the thoughts pop into my head just off my off the top of my head is, yes, this is. In the course of my work up there I often. working with. Spend a lot of time working in Arab airplanes. And You know we have to land and get fuel like everybody else. and. I. Don't Know How many times landed a village airstrip. And Visitors to the refuge, some being guided by wilderness guides and river riverport guides. backpacking guides. We're at the airstrip is their planes were fuelling or coming going from trips in the Arctic refuge. Aunt I was always amazed at talking to people who had never been there before. And they're on their way out of the refuge and they've been there for a week or ten days or whatever. And the glow on their, faces. And the The inspiration they had from being out in such a place. was was just evident when you walk up to them and start visiting and. They were moved like never before it was a life changing experience for people who Had the opportunity or took the opportunity to visit that landscape transformational? I'd say. In life changing. And That's what strikes me as much as anything as his that We need these big theft wild places to restore. Ourselves. From the hectic landscape that we now live in. Both physically, and of course, digital world as well out there you're isolated from much of that you're able to reconnect to. To. The real ancient earth from which we came. That's That's what I think. The value a place like that is the value of other wilderness areas as well. Thank goodness. We have some wild places left in our country elsewhere is just that The refuges of another scale compared to any other. Place that set aside for conservation. The refuge and the Yukon flats are right next to each other. Correct. So between them isn't it more like thirty million acres? And the biggest. The largest wilderness in the lower forty eight think as death valley right and then and Frank Church, and maybe the Bob Marshall Complex are the biggest ones. And Combining them don't even get anywhere near the size. Of either one of those. Yeah then in addition to that, if you take into consideration that Canada has set aside national parks that border directly on the Arctic refuge and they have other protected lands to the south. within the range of the PORCUPINE Caribou herd is even greater. And That's something I haven't mentioned but. When Lowell Sumner and? George Collins the to Park Service people that I looked at Northeast Alaska for conservation values. They very quickly understood. What, what how this area was special and they originally recommended in Arctic International Allies. Preserve. And they they got it from the very beginning. And Both countries have taken actions to protect that area. In. Varying degrees. So when you think about what is over Canadian side? That augments. The Arctic Refuge and Yukon flats it's it's. It's very impressive. One of Windsor last biggest pieces of. Lands North. America. It's that that actually have some conservation purposes. Late on on them. I. I was fortunate to fly Caribou surveys across the border into Canada from. From the winter ranges. In the Canadian. Yukon territories, northwest territories. And seen some of that landscape that big Caribou herd ranges over. And it's kind of mind boggling you can fly for. Hours one, hundred, twenty miles an hour. And see nothing but I'm mark land below you marked only. By this network of terrible trails. That lead four hundred miles air miles. From the southern most winter range. To this narrow little strip. Between the mountains and the coast in the Arctic refuge where they give birth to the cast. And These trails some of them are. Worn down into the soil. Some of them are as deep as couples two to three feet deep in the soil. There's places where they cross. Rocky areas. That are that they've they're the trails are etched in Iraq. That caribou millions of care of a block those trails over thousands of years. Yeah, we're on the edge of. The possibility of. Tearing the system up. In its most sensitive. The calving grounds? That's that's where we're at with this. Search for. Addiction to oil. And That that is one of the most beautiful images I mean I'm I'm taking notes obviously but. Thank you for that Sir. You're welcome. I know for myself floating the concrete cut river. One time we came there by Care Caribou pass, and for probably two miles along the riverbank on both sides We came to where the porcupine herd at Cross probably within a few days of when we were there and on both sides of the river at the high water mark there was a rope of Caribou hair that extended probably two miles a neither side that was four inches wide hollow hair and talk about a Caribou Barnyard. Smell if it was, you could tell it was an amazing cross in that we just missed. Yeah they're multi their hair at that time of the year especially especially, the pregnant females 'cause they. They postpone. The, molting their hair. So that they're not. from a nutritional standpoint, they put priority to producing rich milk. immediately after they give birth. And they moult later after after they've given birth let so that they're not. Trying to grow new hair at the same time that they're producing this the the maximum amount of rich meals. And So you end up with with the hair. along the rivers when they cross, it's It's. It's a remarkable system how how these animals into the? That landscape in in the challenges they faced with insects and perjures and. Free end whatever. Cows are the last shed their antlers as well which of course, Caribou and reindeer the females have antlers many times as well. Yeah, the young let's see. It's the the old both shed their antlers. I in the fall after breeding. And Young Bulls will carry out loses latest March. But the females the only member of the deer. Family. That have antlers, the females having outliers is Caribou. And they shed their antlers. Within usually within seven days after giving birth. So. When you're out on the calving grounds after the Caribou left and you walk around and you find shed antlers scattered around on the Tundra. Nearly. All our collars. In wants to know you're in you're in calving grounds when you see all those call antlers laying around. Wasn't there a study done about. Twelve years ago or so where a? Grad student Dated Carbon dated some of those antlers define concentrations aware the cows historically had. Had shed and even found antlers on the landscape there over two thousand years old. How Yeah, that's that's true and. I think that will continue to be more More detailed information coming out from that study. I'm not sure it's even complete at this point. Yeah. some interesting. Patterns that are showing up that illustrate or establish. Long care of using landscape. And it's related to Also, the use of the landscape for calving is related to the The ICE age. and. If you get out on the coastal plain. there's a stretch there. That During the ICE, age, water levels were lower in the Arctic Ocean. And Animals were able to migrate on the glaciated ice fields of the eastern Brooks range. And there's a narrow stretch. Of the original Seated area that existed during the Ice Age. That enabled them to. Migrate. As. They do today. Those come out of range in Rosca, they always go north east. and go around. The Tall Mountains of the Brooks Range With other migratory groups coming out of the Canadian winter ranges. And then go around the east end of the Brooks range onto the coastal plain. And the northernmost part of the coastal plain was unplaced. And so there's a possibility of finding very ancient antlers there. from the go back to. The ICE age. a lot of fascinating things about relatively simple landscapes. That's not. Voted with uh tens of thousands of species like rainforests and. In the tropics well, I, remember I remember when Hell and I were there with. Berry. Berry was showing. Native sites that probably were from the Mid Twentieth, century, nineteen, fifty, nineteen sixty area, but they still may Aben. Relatively nomadic. hunter-gatherers or very close to that. certainly there's. Places where you can find Rocks on the in the Tundra arranged in a circle. which were used to hold down skin. skin like tents. Stretched over we'll ranches. To kind of. People at that time were probably the original designers don't tents. That's how they traveled light. And Interestingly though even. even the. Widespread It was you know you get into the Ice Age era. And It was a time. There was native people living. In the north of that date back at least. At least twelve, thousand years. and. The first native people that came into Alaska. Did Not have, dog teams at first. And they existed without dogs dogs were dog travel was a relatively new. Means of human travel in the Arctic. How they existed without dogs. Is kind of a mystery. Dogs were central in. Moving from place to place following careful and other. Other. Uh Food food sources. So, there's still a lot of things we don't understand, and there's opportunity to continue to learn new things. one of the things that speaking of Caribou. Just. Oh Gosh. It was just with him probably four years ago. Some archaeologist. You know a branch archaeology has. Has Been Increasing. looking under water for early sites. Of. Existence. And archaeologists had discovered. In Lake Huron, one of the Great Lakes. Nine hundred ninety feet of water. They found. a topographic feature. That Was a ridge that once Separated two. Lakes at at at a particular time. And they found. Rock. Caribou fences on an isthmus between two lakes under ninety feet of water. In Lake Huron. Where native people? At setup up rocks to funnel. Caribou. Too Narrow Isthmus where they could KILKARE APU with spears and. Arrows. So. There's a lot of fascinating was a lot of fascinating things just about. A wasted. Fran I had the opportunity of the archaeologist paid our way to float the Oklahoma Komala River in find archaeological sites are remember on that re re this is a river that flows into the Arctic far to the West and There was still a the rock climbing walls and they had willow sticks in the middle of the walk vile. These old weathered willow sticks that would have held netting for either sheep drives or maybe possibly Caribous well, and I just events. What's so neat about the Arctic it's really a desert in many respects. It's a things are preserved bone points I've found Caribou Antler net needle. San. And and a spear points That are still on the landscape out there that haven't anywhere else. They would've rotted and gone away. That stuff still out there it's amazing. It certainly is. Down surprised by. Go ahead go ahead. Go ahead. Go, ahead friend. Oh I was just gonNA. Say into into realize that. You know US modern day hunters with our Telescopic scopes in high-powered rifles and such To Imagine. Humans. catching animals for food. Without such a powerful inaccurate. weapon really is is. Quite quite impressive that. They were able to Make a living. Certainly. The density of people is much lower. than than than what we have today but nonetheless, they were great hunters. No doubt. About it was incredible. We've lost him again. Even for me more so is being able to survive the winter with just willow patch of sticks sticky afire on that. Just. Amazing So. If if people wanted to expose themselves to the Arctic because I mean it seems pretty daunting. Right? You look at a map you're like, wow, that's a long ways away How do I even? Welcome back how how how do? Alice Burn intermittently with us on this How how? What are some of the easy ways? Someone could get indoctrinated and experienced the landscape without having to be. Super Extreme dropped off. By floatplane two weeks by themselves. I guess I could throw out the closest proximity that I'm aware of and correct me if I'm wrong Fran is to drive the Dalton highway what three hundred, sixty miles north of fairbanks. At the Outta Hoon or a lot of people pronounce it added again and I've I've heard it's a new Biak word for the way we go down from Galbraith Lake somebody could hike on the south side of the Agan. Gorge and just go in a mile and there's actually a wonderful waterfall feature about three miles in but you could stand on Arctic national, wildlife refuge and just get a taste of. What that landscape is and see dall sheep and potentially musk oxen Caribou and other things as well. Wouldn't that be the easiest in your mind of Fran? Yeah. That would be a good way to start For You know it wouldn't necessarily require. Hiring Bush plane and and You don't getting phone in and flowing out and all that stuff. That's that would certainly be a start right there to get get an to get a feel for the land and also to build up your experience to possibly. Plan a second trip. Where you get where you would be dropped off. With an airplane. Some more remote areas than than writing fairly close to the road. also It. I don't know how to say this but People, there's a lot of different people in the world and there's some who Who have the? Adventure adventure spirit even though they've never gone to the. Arctic before. To study up, do some homework do some reading? and plan their own trip. We've had people come. Independent of any skied. or anything else and get on a mail. And Flight Arctic village. In hike or ski across the refuge from Arctic. Village Tacoma can get on another mail plane and fly back and not even higher Bush pilot. Some of the early people that visited the refuge. used. To do that it was a pretty common thing for people to just get on a mail plane and go across the refuge from south to North or north to south either way. That's another option that. Is Out there anyway, for people to do how how many how many stamps does it take to get out of the male plan? Well, the price has gone up. That's a good question given given the postal service funding these days and all that. but Yeah it's the mail plane of the costs of flying in the mail plane of gone up like everything else Berry. You probably know better than me possibly. What a round trip ticket safe from a or a one way ticket say the topic would be, but it's it's gotta be between at least four hundred dollars. Probably I don't know. Exactly. Priceless fire than it used to be. More more than a couple of stance for sure. So you could possibly pull it off thousand dollars round trip via mail plane. Without. Yeah you call suit. To some of the air carrier's you could find out what? was what it would be. I just can't give you that number off the top of my head. But I think people would find even a simple task of driving the Dalton. Highway is a challenge unto itself and make sure you have a rental car for example that you're even allowed to go up there because though I must say the road is the best I've ever seen. And but it is still challenging and I know my pickup truck coming back, you. You couldn't even guess the color it. It was just a shade, a Grayish Brown. So that's you know that's it does take a toll. Yeah, it takes a lot of vigilance to Drive safely and and be careful about. the big trucks hauling on the road. and not, and you know you shouldn't stop to get out and look at something where where you're right on a blind corner. Because if the to eighteen wheelers, so coming along going south and one going north and your vehicle is not totally off the road. There could be a bad consequences. Were I think just on the drive we saw two or three Mousse plus a black bear. On the trip on the drive up. The drive long and bumpy was definitely an adventure and exciting in its own right. Yeah. It's an adventure definitely. I always pull over. When I'm on the the Dalton Highway section just stop because I don't WanNa crowd him at all and you're gonNA find these truckers talk to each other and were goes pretty quick that you're somebody that's friendly and if you're not. they'll. They'll get you on a payback either gravel on the windshield or kind of four she off the road. So this saying be courteous to the big trucks. Bummer bummer have. Anything you WANNA, add or Hell you've been in and out quite a bit. I have I was amazed. I. Don't know what's getting me off not my internet but near the mind I got, I got a lot of it but it was very perverse at times because somebody would say something perfect and it would go pink. Party get. you know a lot of people ask me how far is it from this point to that point and? I hate to say it but my experience is primarily. From, writing in Bush airplanes. And I tend to think in terms of of time than miles. So you know from. Arctic village to Catch Tofig. Memory serves me right it's about. About forty five minutes to an hour. traveling at about a hundred and twenty miles an hour. Ninety. Wrong. But if that's that's `perfect conditions to and I guess a big point When I asked Fran Ais takeaways from working up there that landscape is in a human timeline. And people get themselves in trouble when they're trying to compress it into a time frame that that meets their schedule and so don't be pushing Bush pilots to fly in bad weather. You know it's time to play a game of cribbage and just wait it out. And if you if you've if you're flying up to Alaska from lower forty-eight, you have airline reservations. It would be wise to give yourself a day or two. on either side. to cover you in the event that pilot in the weather such you can't pick you up right on on scheduled to get you in back to fairbanks and time to catch a flight. Down to the lower forty eight. It's wise to. schedule, your airline ticket give you some extra time. In case you're stuck out there for a while news the longest you were ever stuck up on the coastal plain. Oh. There have been times when I haven't been stuck out on the ground. So long that there were, there have been times where mail planes even with instrument Equipment could not fly into CAC. Tova for a week because of coastal fog that's the worst is coastal fog in the summertime. And The fog is a his problem because it. It comes and goes unpredictably can roll in. From the coast all the way to the continental divide up some of the river valleys. Within half an hour's time and so. it's unpredictable. Weather condition that needs to be taken into consideration when you're operating headed we had a come in on this last trip up there a couple of weeks ago. It looked like molasses pouring over the the hills coming up towards the mountains and had envelope does for probably a day and a half. It's fairly common actually. INDIANA. Good. Seek outside to to to sit out. On our trip we spent a lot of time with a fire under a tarp and then eventually everyone started throwing willow and to seek outside Cimarron and said, let's get that stove going. So. Photo. Looking into that tent while y'all we're drying out close. Yeah I've I've often advised people to to consider. Going to the Arctic on its terms rather than. In other words, it's terms are unpredictability. plan ahead give. Yourself? Extra time. Because the fog rules. In this land and we don't. And a lot of crazy things happen that you could not would not. think of. When you're? Traveling into off the road from a road system if you have to rely on on an airplane We need to go there under the conditions that exist rather than our own. Specifications. And I would add also that includes. We shouldn't expect Bush pilots. To land. In places where people never landed before. As there's a growing proliferation of landing sites. That ultimately changes the character of a place like the Arctic refuge as well. One of the things I learned when I first came to Alaska was from a veteran. Of Fish while I service person Filament Dave Spencer. And he advised me when I was young and. Didn't know much about this. that. What protects wildlife in their natural conditions more than anything else here in Alaska. Is the ease of human access to to to these remote places. If build an airstrip in an area they will fund. And As sensitive and subtle is things are in the Arctic. Air Strip in a place where there had never been an airstrip in change the character of an entire valley. Well, I imagine it's liked around here a little bit. This year. Our usage is up. An. Incredible amount due to probably covert and people not having a thing to do. A recent study. Going up into the base and outside outside just about five miles away. in two, thousand, nineteen, which seemed very busy. There is thirty three, thousand cars This year there was forty, seven thousand during the month of July. So fifty percent growth in one year however, there's a lot of people that have been found noticed whatever see a of tire tracks on the Tundra and that Tundra just takes forever to grow back when people do it so. I signed on recently to thing that has been circulating. For Alpine Rangers and education as well because people don't realize just how sensitive that is that Tundra just because it looks like you're. Toyota Tundra can go rolling over it without. Without being big deal doesn't mean that you should. I agree a hundred percent it's In my opinion I. Think it's a real. Tragedy to see our Tundra areas. So markup nowadays by all-terrain vehicles Those scars with either until all-terrain vehicles go extinct. And beyond. Something is lost when you can't look across. In, Arctic Tundra Landscape. Without, seeing line or a scar. And then I think. Very, talked about it much earlier. About. How on the north side of the mountains where the mountain sweep down to the Arctic coast. At least in the Arctic refuge. It's essentially unscarred. That's sweep of. Landscape and varying mosaic goes. Vegetative patterns. Going from the Arctic Ocean right up. To tallest peaks in the brooks range without a scar. You soon as you step out of the Arctic refuge boundary cross the Canning River. There's oil. Exploration scars and seismic lines all over the place. And last place that relatively or essentially unscarred. Already, Christie Edge. That's awesome. It's the last last. We get. The the environmental writer Is a real controversial character enough himself Edward Abbey. came up to the Arctic refuge in. Nineteen eighty three. wilderness. River Guide and floated down the Congo River. He wrote an article about his trip to the refuge. And the entitled it. So last pork chop. If you look at the map of the so-called ten to coastal plain area that's being considered for oil development. It kind of looks like the shape of a pork chop. It's an interesting read is an interesting writer. Activist I. Guess. Monkey wrench gang. Man I feel like that's a good place, you can play the leave leave everybody off What action steps can people take right now? Can. Is there. Is. There anything that can be done is it just voices? writing into our senators here at home to you know we need to Tweet Donald? Trump. Like. What what can be done before now in the end of the year to make sure that maybe they don't do. Do something. That seems pretty sure handed that they're gonNA do. Well. One thing I could like a point to Is, that there's been a campaign quite successful. encouraging. The. Big Banks. In the US and other banks around the world. To, To establish a policy that they will not land. Any money. Who oil companies who often need need cash? To support. Their. Exploration activities. And All of the big banks, the really big banks in the US. Except one. Have issued a policy where they will not. Fund oil exploration. In. The Arctic refuge. And That goes in internationally includes Lloyd's of London. Barclay's Thanks of Australia Scotland. and then in the US Citibank. J.. P. Morgan. Morgan Stanley. Wells Fargo. Have all. Have all pledged they would not lend money for drilling in the refuge. There's still one big bank in the US that has not taken. That made that policy and that's the Bank of America. And Conservationist environmentalist whatever you WANNA call them. Are Are contacting that bank and encouraging them to also join with all the other banks and this? This boycott of funding in the oil development in the Arctic it's another way to possibly. Hold. The line on this place that is. Hanging by. Threads at this moment. So if any of you have a Credit Card Account With Bank of America. that's that's one thing you can do races the bank and encourage them to take that Stan. Send them, send them a message. Sent them a message. It's are. We still have our freedom of speech yet I believe and and. We should speak up. But it never hurts to contact your senator and Congressman. because we've got election coming up and then maybe changes in the composition of Congress that would be more favorable to. To saving the refuge. The refuge has existed under threats for the last forty years or more. and. It's survived so far. With a little bit of hope. Luck. Maybe, it will survive. Into the future of those come after. We've got a hope. So anyway. Awesome French will Fran. Thank you. Thank you so much for for gun over all this with us Berry through calling in how thanks for being here. UNICEF like for your patient to let me in. Well thanks for the opportunity to visit with you guys I. Appreciate it. It was fun. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I know I know I learned a ton in hopefully we get to see you Alaska sometime little tour. Absolutely I'm kind of feeling the need for I'm feeling the need for the trip on the cut. Oh, that's a good one going at. Drain Creek and go on down I want to end on that. Okay. Let's talk about it offline. And the next podcast will do person that said. Yeah. All right guys thanks very much. Recording. Also interview man I took about a billion. A springboard for future maybe top IT. So there your way. Thank you. Audios.
BP deploys drilling automation on Alaska's North Slope - Part 1
"You're listening to world oils. Deep dive where you'll get to know the authors of technical articles in world oil magazine and learn more about their company's technology. And how it's shaping our industry now. Here's your host Jim Watkins. We're here today with a whole bunch of people from from BP and Parker drilling we have Andrew Coit and Steve Pink and Carl Shelvin from BP and Daniel Blydenburgh from Parker drilling. And we're all here today. Discuss an article that they co authored. And it's in world oil June issue starting on page forty seven. It's called Bp deploys drilling automation package on ALASKA'S NORTH SLOPE TO DECREASE Connection Times improve safety and efficiency. That's prolong title guys. Who came up with? That doesn't look conciliatory at all. Doesn't it's definitely input from a lot of us. Yeah Yeah Yeah well here to to get things started. We'll do we'll just go around in order. Andrew was start with you. Tell everybody who's listening who you are. What you do your company and kind of how you got so I graduated from Southern Methodist University in Dallas Texas. In two thousand ten two short stint in the defense industry and then decided to transition to oil and gas benefit over for almost ten years now started in drilling optimization and then our and got pulled into this automation business because it was the result of fourteen different acquisitions coming into an lovie and they needed help. Coalescing these into a singular technology so worked a lot in the field helping prove out developed this technology and then it became my job to deliver around the world. So ten years really. He looked like you're twenty five all right all right and then next we have Steve. Pink also co authored. This yeah so. I go into the oil industry off to graduating Roberts. University in the United Kingdom degree in geology worked as a mud logger then worked for Sperry Sun and probably close to forty countries around the world wide and then joined the back in two thousand and twelve. My older brother was the team responsible. For creating the whole impetus behind automation I and a V and subsequently I ended up responsible for optimization and automation sales for North America and Latin America. That's where I'm currently sitting during this project. I was pretty much the sales and customer facing individual supporting Andrew from the from the sales side of the business and then in the background providing some of the technical support from pressure evaluation. That was a a coal Paul my role with Sperry Song. Okay all right and Carlos would you do would be yeah got out though? I work currently for BP in in in Las Kind Alaska region. I do the intake was super intendant role of this point. Then in the in the industry for about twenty five years graduated petroleum engineer from University of American Columbia and I've been in a variety of regions working for VP. Mostly also a little bit of work with Somber Year integrated project management like in the Gulf of Mexico in two thousand and three for a period of time. So yeah as I say of of roles say engineering operations predic- management you know senior engineer at some point in Tinley. The was superintendent was leader. Project Manager for Work Control Training. Our you know because in mostly drilling related roles. Wow that's a lot a lot of roles there that's amazing and Dan and Dan. What about yourself? Yeah so Dan. Blydenburgh currently operations manager for park drilling here in Alaska. I was raised in Alaska or in Alaska and entered the oilfield read. As I entered my adult life started out working in the camps as a sewer plant operator of all things and then on my way onto a drilling rig two and worked gust about and every position on up to two driller and then hired on with Parker drilling as a a driller and work through the construction as rig manager from nights to two senior rig manager and then moved into the area Superintendent Role in in Anchorage Alaska here and then and currently operations manager so all Alaska my oilfield careers been Alaska and still ear wash. That is amazing. That's amazing to stay so put in this business right and just rise up through the ranks in one place that rarely happens. Yeah Yep now that's now. Let's get into the article once again for everybody WHO's listening. It's on page forty seven in June. Two thousand nine hundred issue world oil but I highlighted a lot of things on the first page but I think the most interesting thing is is what is something that I run into all the time right. Is Everybody talks about automation. And they have conferences on automation. And there's papers on automation and how it's going to help and yet it's so rare to see an article like this one. Where later will get into it where there's actual results? Why do you guys think that is jumping on that? Sure sure? I think we talked a little bit about this before the podcast here. But automation is a term. That's thrown around pre loosely in the in the energy industry particularly as oil and gas. And what we strive to do in. This article is to put as much specificity around this and with that a mind the product management approach we took to this was defining the value wanted to create at the beginning and we worked very hard with Carlos in dense teams between Parker on the ground in Alaska and also in partnership with. Bp's Global Wealth Team here in Houston to make sure that we were focused on the tactical goals and strategic goals at the same time. So everything that we are measuring on reporting on throughout the initiative was scoped out from from the get go with the goal of helping the industry understand that. This is not a project thing that you test anymore. This is a better way of doing business right and we can get into the value proposition. Probably later on in the conversation. Yeah and in that second column about halfway down you have a quote says just drilling. Automation HAS NO BEGINNING MIDDLE OR in natural way of optimally conducting business in the twenty first century oil and gas markets and. Gal is true and I mean this article throughs and so moving on from there. I mean there's a there's a very nice beginning piece talking about automation in general for the first couple of columns in the third column. You know there's a very good intro saying that you know. This article explores interviews drilling automation initiative and recent project which has been the broadest and most successful implementation of automation package today with BP Alaskan Park drilling so. That's the crux of the whole article. Going through but it gets into great great detail here so going on to page forty eight. There's a in the first column about Second Paragraph Down Guys. There's a there's some of the system and so I'm going to read them. Give us Give some more detail because then it goes into to breaking it out. But here's a good succinct summary from Stephen Forester at Novi data collected with a down hole drilling dynamics sub and sent to the surface in real time via wired pipe allowing software applications to interpret and analyze the data and distribute demands according to the rigs control systems to adjust the functions of the equipment. So I mean that's a that's a very succinct summary. But there's a lot that goes into that. Who had all of you guys here on the panel today? Who handled whip which part of that Steve on his talk about how we pull this together? Okay so yeah so. We've ruled the the system. Architecture is quite complex it requires a myriad of Paul moving parts involved. We have third party service providers providing the directional service in the L. wd equipment. We had multiple subs for data acquisition from boasts a single placement to a long string measurements. That we're giving us the ability to visualize pressure and drilling. Don Alex throughout the system. We then have the water piped network all of the surface components of them required to pull that data off that network that then goes through a complex series of computers and integration components. Then feed into the control system. So you've got moving parts from both other providers and us the Rick Control System the rig and then we have humans in the equation so it overall is an extraordinary complex system and to pull that all together in a single project was quite quite something and it was the first time today have been been done at this level of complexity and that was pretty pretty much invented by Andrew from an implementation perspective. And the team. Epee wow that's that's a lot of moving parts. I mean my natural question from this was Why haven't we done this before? I mean all these all these things exist but just explanation. I think that says why it doesn't get done very often. Right was one thing I will highlight there and Carlos. Dan feel free to speak up on on this to this complex right but what we want to highlight is the purpose of doing it is. It's to make drilling operations and implementation of Simpler Right. So it's this hurdle or this energy of activation that's been in the way for so long and there's cultural piece there's been a technical piece and the great thing about this deployment that happened on. The North Slope is Parker. I'll just mention quickly. Den and the initiative of his team and the their culture of acceptance was paramount to our success. I mean without a drilling crew that is educated and open to the idea that doing something differently because there's value in it is okay and the fact that if you make a mistake it's okay we're GONNA learn from it that detrimental and supporting the guys through the learning process and his team instrument absolutely instrumental in that without a drilling contractor that opened to it the operator and and the service company and the technology provider or we're going to be punching brick walls until the cows come home so is crucial to have about and drilling contractor and I. It's interesting because on page forty nine of the article there is this a bit about culture talks about BP's culture. Some but Dan that that's interesting. Is that the way it is at Parker? I mean are you guys open in that type of thing all the time? Was this a special one off. How does that work for you guys know? I think it's culture for Parker through and through. You know since the early date of Parker. They've they've really tried to be innovative and reliable and and find efficient ways to do these things and so as as you pull teams together and you work with The Parker Culture. It's just a just becomes the natural functional things for our guys and I agree with Andrew. You know it's. It's peril. Evan Evan the team and the guys the guys operating the rig to be able to do that but it's it's not just it's gotta be a two way street. It's the the operator that we worked for. It's the third parties that we work with it was if it was a true one team. One Vision Mindset and and having that that team work together was was the key and Carlos I mean none of this works without the operator being on board too right so tell us a little bit about that. I mean was that a big leap for BP. I mean is that your culture to to try some cutting edge projects like this. Well I think Alaska region for the V. Has You know a great opportunity there. Which is you know being the pioneer for you know external implementation of some of these technologies. So sometimes they ask. Region really supports in favor of those you know other regions where you know implementation might be either you know in a different risk profile in in different you know coast over benefit differences. So so I think you know but back for a minute to the culture. I think it's you know I. I really agreed with drew on Don on. You know it's it's multi disciplinary effort of you know really embracing new technology and given given the opportunity to this things to you know do work and to learn from and you know maintain that loop of continuous improvement. I think you know got paramount in order to you know to go ahead into in the industry and just to add to it. One of the greatest barriers in our industry to technology adoption is cultural. And we see all of these committees etcetera but it requires a much lower level of cultural adoption and willingness to to use different methods and a different behavior that to deliver automation to the industry. That's interesting because yeah when you're talking about guys on the on the rig actually using the equipment and and dealing with the automation I guess would take some somebody who wants to you know. Try something that hasn't been done before and willingness to do that which You know hats off to you guys Dan. Because I think that's where you know. I mean in our industry as much. I say all the time right when I'm talking to people I always say you know as much as we like to. Innovate in our industry. Nobody likes to be the first guy you know. They only want to do it after it's proven so that's what makes this article unique to. Right. I mean this. Is Everything altogether so impressive? Congratulations to all you guys on that. One thing Andrew here one thing that Carlos and his team did a great job. Challenging the INOVA team on throughout the initiative was on that mindset of continuous improvement said from the get-go Carlos is asking us very pointed questions about this close to us on what we learned on previous deployments because he did not want to start at Square. One in ninety. Did he won his team to do so as well and so with that in mind. If we could summarize the culture that was there there was a culture of ownership around that that BP really championed that empowered the rest of us to really come to the table and feel comfortable trying. These new things and culture of ownership was really sort of I pushed on the Julia nearing team on Carlos Team at BP. And it was I met with wide eyed fear to be honest and then as they realized that the engineering team realize that this is something. They're going to have to own and sit in the driver's seat on they weren't by themselves and they had a Formula One team around them to help them optimize. How this is going to be implemented the first time and it didn't happen without. It's you know hiccups and whatnot is as you would expect. But the second time around each drilling engineer going through this process with us. They weren't asking us what it could do. They were telling us what they wanted it to do for them. Nice and so seeing that change That was one of the biggest hurdles that we had to learn to overcome and this deployment whereas previously interview was trying to push this offer this as an external thing. That's where the where we broke the barrier from a project mentality to. This is the way we do things when the operator adopted that culture of ownership nice. And what was your feedback on your side Carlos. What was what was going on on your side during all of this. The the beginning Bart. Well you know the is is is a large company where you know changes are are very common but I think when important piece for us is how we managed to change you know. How do we move from point to point the? Nsa unreliable manner. So I think one of the key elements in the article mentioned as a in one of its You know internal parts is around on stage approach towards implementation so we didn't go straight through in a single well we managed to get you know well number one and implement you know a portion and then all throughout five or four zero five wells in order to allow the system to become familiar to become knowledgeable to learn from you know they the mayor milestones through the process. So I think that that was key for the final four. The final result is actually mentioned on Page fifty in the third column. I'll just read from a section there. It says a phased approach decided palm for the project which began by proving the automation platforms system and application functionality. On the first well and then on the second well the automation platform we use to optimize drilling parameters with surface data using performance drilling applications wired drill pipe with high speed. Donald Sensors was added on the third well and on the fourth well and wired pipe was integrated and on the fourth well. The wired pipe was integrated with the road. East Rotary steerable system and then a wired unabomber was added on the fifth. Well and so by the six well. Everything was in there right so that type of adoption made the process more smoothly especially for your guys. Dan was did that work well for you. Oh that was. That was the key I agree but the start of that phased approach was was a training. And I know it's mentioned in here in this article but it was. It was the training that took place. The first phase was. Let's get all the guys here in the training center with a simulator and let's go through this system and teach these guys how to work it that way they don't get a pile of equipment and say let's make it work out there in in real world so that first phase was was the training and then to be able to learn one piece and then perfect it find out what issues the operators had with it. What is used the the rig was going to have with that and work through those bugs and then roll into the second phase. So that's the way to do it and was that I've actually seen that anybody who's ever been to a trade or something that that. Novo's chair right is that is that the one we're talking about is on the the system but I think it's really neat that somebody like in a conference room somewhere can have that setup and just run through until their until they're comfortable with it before they ever have to get a field and actually see it in real life. I mean that that's got to be a big advantage. You know I mean. That's one of the technology advantages being able to train offsite before you actually get. There was fantastic and that was some of the major feedback from our own crew members. The drillers that were operating it was you know they thanked BP and Parker and for allowing them the opportunity to go to the training center. I and learned that it helps them feel like they were more of a success out in real operations and Dan just to to build on that. The culture of adoption really helped us partner with you guys and getting that training in place in advance because at this stage two years ago when we started this. That wasn't necessarily a stone. Chills requirement for the successful rollout of these projects. Right that is now right and not only that is in the spirit of continuous improvement. We now partner that the training with due diligence for the field application. So when the are actually getting this training. We're going through the actual physical. Kpi's that they're going to be delivering on each hole section as we're doing us so our goal and just as we piloted with with with. Parker is to make sure that when the drillers get out there. And it's and it's showtime that it's at least a third of the fourth time that they've seen it nice and what we realized in learning with BP and learning with Parker that this is not just something that we're rolling out. This is not a top trial this is not a rotary steerable tool. This is not a new drove it with new technology. You a thing right this is. We're talking about automation platforms. These are the things that touch all the things right. So there's an order of magnitude of complexity here and if the drillers aren't comfortable with with how their workday is going to change. It's not going to be successful. Yeah but you know like you said for the technology because there are so many moving parts and things I mean. That's an interesting thing that you know is just touched on there with the you know with how things were set up a little bit on the training but I mean that is a. that's a learning unto itself right. How do we prepare people to get involved with all of this because when the article goes on right so starting on page fifty and then in the fifty one socks I it lists like all of the technologies that were used all at one time? And so I'll just I'll just read through the the highlights of that so there was the you know the process automation drilling process automation. There's wired drill pipe to parameter an autonomous to parameter auto driller an autonomous real time down whole auto driller application slip stick prevention software hands measurement system colored based am tool and real time visualization application. That's a lot of pieces man. That is a lot but my question was was all of this. All of this wired equipment with all these already existing parts that then got put together. I mean or did you develop something special because Oh we need this part. In in this system. The majority of the components were in existence side. The one of the greatest complexities of this is because of the rate of adoption of wide pipe. The availability of wide components is not always like that so that were elements this where we did have to do some bespoke work. And that's where a lot of pre-planning were that Andrew Myself. Carlos and other members of the team had to establish what was very very complex master equipment list and identify where the gaps in equipment. Were to ensure the. You wouldn't arrive on the Reagan suddenly. Go Oba we've got that. So that was that's a that's a huge paw of the complexity of delivering the overall automation system but no in two to summarize the wardrobe pipe and the majority of these components were in existence. It was logistically getting them to the end point and then pulling them all together. In a seamless way and combining them with other third parties that were involved in the project to minimize the likelihood of trouble further down the line and that that's probably the one of the great successes in some ways of the project was. We didn't really hit too. Many roadblocks amazing amazing because that is a lot of moving parts that that is a lot a ride. I hope everybody is really enjoying this conversation with. Bp Parker drilling and Ino V. it goes on for a long time though. So we're going to have to break this into two episodes. Be Sure and check out the continuation of this conversation next month on world oil. The data. Thanks for listening. Take a look at today's show notes for links we mentioned in the podcast. We enjoy your feedback. So if you have any questions or comments email them to deep dive at world oil DOT COM CHECK OUT WORLD OIL DOT com for the best oil and gas industry technical articles in news and join us next time for another deep dive with world oil.
Voices from the war in Afghanistan
"This winter joined the Washington Post in its fight against hunger homelessness and poverty with the contribution to post helping hand to learn more and donate visit post host helping hand dot com. This post reports. PODCAST is brought to you by net suite by Oracle the cloud based business management software. That gives you the visibility and control. You need to grow nets. He is offering their free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash. Wolpe from the newsroom is room of the Washington Post High. There is the mayor wrestling with the Washington Post. Pick your brain on and this is coach. Reports I'm Martine powers. It's Tuesday December seventeenth today vets respond to the Aghanistan an Alaskan town facing an existential prices and controversial new law in India. The last week the Post published a collection of secret documents and audio recordings of government officials talking candidly about the failures of the war in Afghanistan and how those realities were hidden from the public generals ambassadors and aid workers ars and troops. WHO said this war was a mess and our strategy failed and we didn't know what we were doing literally use those words? That's Craig whitlock the the reporter that broke the story and fought for years to make these secret documents public while on one hand it makes sense because people have known the war hasn't been going well which is why we've been there. Eighteen years to hear a read these people who are in charge of the war admitting how the war was screwed up and that what the American people are being told about the wars wasn't true. It's really kind of mind boggling. If you haven't yet listen to that story from last week I recommend that you go back to hear those recordings. It's it's really remarkable and when the post published this investigation we asked for feedback from some of the people that have been impacted the most veterans who served in Afghanistan Stan and so far we've collected over one hundred and fifty responses so we're going to play some of them. I was like finally. Finally there's proof data that that it's unwinnable that every report that were most. The reports are being written was ally for all of us that went over there and worked so well hard and put our families through so much and there was never a strategy. We were just going through motions chasing ghosts through mounds me and my friends none. All of us were surprised like everything. That's what I'm saying like I when I came back I realized goes like this is not like a war war. This is like this is usually borderline. Ocupation this is not new. This is not news. I mean as news that it was known at that level among multiple administrations. But it's not new anyone anyone that's been paying attention for the last decade and it was the day after I got home. I was visiting friends and I walked into this whole foods. And it's like I hate him off. The poor people hate you all because none of you even remembers that there's a war happening. It's so far removed. And why do you guys get to not care about it when it's your John it's your responsibility is is is the care. And I just can't help but feel like no. We paid the price for a decision maker in Washington. DC's mistakes and it wasn't just us in the price also. Yes any people themselves after you know three years there and you don't see any progress from your perspective when you start to question. What the hell are we doing? There's a lot of feeling like you're you're sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill and you go home for six months and you come back and the rocks at the bottom of the hill and you're like well are pushing it again. You know why when we were there. We had the local elders. They came to US requesting to build the small dam down. Prevent the spring floods earliest limit. Their damage Plans together. Set them up to our headquarters in they came. I'm back the small damn it morphed into a massive hydroelectric dam and the residents of evaluating the overall subsistence farmers who had small herds of goats and sheep. We didn't know what they were going to do. With giant hydroelectric dam. It's not something did they wanted. is practical. Like we couldn't do anything with that and it was just the giant disconnect from what we were seeing you know living with these farmers in alley in what they thought they could do at either the Pentagon or On Barbara was a huge disconnect. It was night and day is basically traveling around interviewing Afghan police. My sense of this has always been that when it came to the police in particular in the quest to build up those forces as quickly as possible particularly particularly twenty ten when we really started to build police in quantity there. Was this feeling of you know. They're being created individually. The screening didn't appear to be very good for who got into had a lot of people coming into the forest who were on drugs a lot of people coming into the forest who are being brought in sort of defacto on mass because they were the militia forces of powerful people who were in police. He's not ready. So you know I would go to places where everyone I would talk to was a cousin of the head of whatever that police police station was and I can you. Can someone bring me someone who's not a cousin of the commander and there just wasn't anyone. There wasn't a family member on NAFTA. You got a lot the cronyism at local levels. I still to this day. Don't question why we went there. But it is clear that we transitioned from eliminate Afghanistan a harbor for transnational terrorist organization to liberals should go to school. And that's important and I like Mike Matt idea but as national security professional that's beyond the strategic abilities. The arming certainly our mission was pretty much. Screw the elections and area we were in. We were in our south. I I noticed it on election day when at two thousand nine when cars I got reelected when I saw the stuffing ballots. I said some squad leader Rosa K.. Like they're stuffing ballots stuffed ballots. I said no one has come your vote today but they're shoving papers into his box. That look like voting ballots. Aren't we here to make sure that this election goes smoothly. It doesn't look like it's going smoothly so I started getting a little. You know deter was there. He was telling what I was saying. Big Up you know. The didn't really appreciate what I was saying to them. So my squad leader put myself instead just monitor the radio. That's what you're we're GONNA do. Tell him to stop doing that as their country their rules and after that I was just like wow this this whole shit is is bogus after that I was just like. I don't know what we're doing. Yeah this is just. I didn't know what we're doing. Why are we there? If they weren't doing things properly anyway. All our leaders you saw them on television giving speeches and on leadership in publishing their self help books leadership books upon upon retirement. They had abandoned many of us before we even got their award of them. Move as a box to check. It was something to do in their career but for us they. It wasn't even our time. There ended up being worthless. The voice you heard were Army Infantryman Jonathan Rosario Army Combat Medic Shane Reynolds Army automated. Logistics specialist. A-list June Celeste Spence Army intelligence officer. Greg F- Rostrum civilian researcher. Becky Zimmerman Ends Marine Corps. Field Radio Operator. Caleb a hater there are many more reflections at the post received from veterans of the war in Afghanistan to read those and to read more about the Afghanistan. PAPERS GO TO POST REPORTS DOT COM I went to a town called new accent. Which is on Alaska's north slope? It's a tiny place with four hundred eighty people living there and it's called called It's this is a hard one it is. It's I actually have been trying. It's very hard to pronounce it correctly. The in the the official English pronunciation that the that the state of Alaska has new wicks. But I checked with a University of Alaska Fairbanks professor linguist and to the best of my ability running this past many people. It's best to say nooks noakes neck set knowing that that sounded like no exit. I feel but you almost had it. That's national affairs correspondent. Juliet alpern. She went to the Alaskan native village of new exit which is in the northernmost part of the state reporters here at the post have been looking at the places around the world that have already warmed so much that scientists say irreversible harm is setting in you. Exit is one of those places. Since the late eighteen hundreds the average annual temperature there has warmed almost four degrees Celsius. We're seven degrees Fahrenheit. That's quadruple the world average and the warming is happening faster. Juliet says that it's part of a broader hotter transformation in Alaska that she's learned about from people like Martha. Martha attack is the tribal administrator for the Native Village Komo Exit. I also serve as the vice mayor for the city of Knox which is a small village of roughly four hundred eighty. The people on Alaska's North Slope Ijaz ancestors had roamed this landscape on Alaska's north slope for centuries and had generally generally followed animals including Caribou and others to hunt and survive this subsistence hunters but in the nineteen forties the US government had a policy. We'll see where they were encouraging Alaskan natives to move to major cities so that children could get standard educations and as a result you really we saw people abandoned some of their traditional lands and move to places like Barrow which is now called Geog Vic so folks moved there air and everything changed in nine hundred seventy one to extend my greetings that wishes to the convention of the Allied. Okay that's when Richard Nixon signed into law. The Alaska native claims settlement. ACT The mile long. History WanNa take an Indian in some of the institutions of government are with developers. And what that what did is it gave. Alaskan natives nearly a billion dollars and allowed them to lay claim to forty four million acres in the state in exchange exchange for relinquishing their claims. On anywhere else the rest became either state property or federal property and as a result you head a caravan van of twenty seven families that traveled to know exit established tents by the river and spent the next year and a half resettling their town and so now Martha is tribal administrator of that town. What are the issues that she's dealing with as tribal administrator? She deals with the number of issues. But first and foremost she is trying to determine how the village can prosper and at the same time name sustain traditions like subsistence hunting. Preserving our news to survive to carry on our tradition to our children our children's children roughly half the Diet of the people who live in this community. It comes from hunting wild game on one hand. They want continue with this. But on the other hand there is significant oil development near Nick said which which helps sustain the community economically but could potentially imperil some of the activities if their tradition is to hunt Caribou. Why would that change in the future? Well there are a couple of reasons one is that because there's actually really strong prospects for oil in this part of Alaska Aska. There are an increasing network of pipelines drill rigs very high gravel roads that might alter the caribous migration patterns. We want to scout no longer use uh of the scouting police That's Freeman EPA. Look Martha's cousin. He says that now he sees way he were. Caribou around the oilfields. Near the village village. But because of these pipelines we believe that they're being deferred from their traditional migration routes because of the traffic. I've blamed facilities. Are you there too low or the And when you add to that you have to to factor in climate change and that is having a tremendous impact on a number of the species that live in this region. We're talking about certainly. Certainly the fastest warming place in the United States and the warming has accelerated in recent decades. I mean what's incredible is that since nineteen seventy which is roughly at the time when it was resettled. We're talking about an increase of more than point seven degrees Celsius so it's really increasing over time. And how do they see. The effects of climate change play out in their day to day life. You can see it in a number of ways. One of the most visible ways is in the cemetery. The thawing knowing of the permafrost is causing our land to fall and drop the town has one graveyard and when you go there. The land is sinking talking. And that's because the ice that's in the permafrost which is essentially frozen earth is melting. Our land is dropping so at our summer Terry We're we're always having to fill our loved ones grave. Because as they're sitting there it gets soft dropped so we fill it in. And and as a result it is creating these these pools these pathways of water that run through the graves and in fact the crosses is are tilted one way or another as a result you also just see it. In terms of their houses which are in relatively good condition for remote Alaskan village have have the ground sinking in some cases but neither base and so the steps become slanted. They also see it in terms of you. Know a change in the the weather at times change in what they're saying for wildlife creation so it is an ever-present part of their reality at this point. What's interesting about new exit? Is that as the town is experiencing the effects of climate change. It's also heavily supported by an industry that contributes to climate change oil production Shen oil companies. I moved in when new exit was resettled now. CONACO PHILLIPS has the largest stake one of the really unusual things that happened happened when they resettled is that they created a village corporation. Where anyone who is there at the time got hundred shares in in this corporation anyone who is there at the time when they started drilling know anyone who is there in one thousand nine hundred seventy three when they originally resettled it and so uh-huh for example? Martha was born a few years after that as were all her siblings and so they don't have shares in the corporation ration- and to put this in perspective. The dividends for full shareholder in the Cookbook Corporation. Last year were thirty. One thousand dollars now. There are lots of other ways. Oil Development does have benefits for everyone. Even if you're not a shareholder CONACO PHILLIPS PUT UP The basketball cart it helped underwrite underwrite the community center for Teens. It repaired the roof on on the entire community center and it helps subsidize the whale hunt that they I do in the fall and spring. It offers internships as well as you know some level of of employment for the community and so the oil development is inextricably strictly tied in part of the fabric of this community so from Martha the tribal administrator. How is she navigating this well? It's interesting she. She has decided to wage a fight to STOMP CONACO PHILLIPS from expanding its oil production and specifically from hunting for oil this winter. She convinced the tribal leaders to join in a lawsuit that a few environmental groups. CBS are waging against the federal government. Arguing that essentially. They made a mistake in allowing conaco Phillips. The right to to look for oil this winter without fully assessing the environmental impacts of that decision the most important or the concerns of our community are fully addressed because that leads to funding for community and that shows how impacted we we are because there's no real data soaring the how impacted the are. And how has that fight gone down in her community like do. Does everybody support her in this. No there are very sharp divisions on this question because oil royalties are such a huge huge portion of what people earn and as a result the idea of trying to put a halt to that especially at a moment where there's even a greater potential on the north slope is something that in many ways has divided family and friends. Will you guys are bullshit to what we've been doing one of the folks who I happen to me while I was up there is Edward McAfee. The brother of Martha e Tad's father folks feel that pain that we're GonNa feel before you folks are GonNa go through all that hardship just like we get shorty from shitty. We'll told them. Shut your ten dollars Nancy. What it's like without also feel Carter trip would cluber how you water by five counter book? I also think it's fascinating that the hell people in the community feel about this the way that you've described that it kind of falls along lines of age that for people who are older who see even more of the financial benefits of the sterling saying that they see what has been gained from this industry. They're not like climate change deniers. They're just people who say that the short-term realities allergies and the short-term challenges are more important or more pressing than the long-term realities absolutely one of the interesting interviews I conducted for the story was I spent time with Joe. Bela who had been the top interior official working on an on on these issues. He absolutely agreed that climate climate change is real and it's happening and that his home state is warming faster than anywhere else in the US. But his point was that doesn't mean that we stopped stop oil development and that we in his words impoverish. You know the people who live here. Alaska is not a snow globe. Right some people bowl Wanna just shake it up and put up on their shelf anew. That's a pretty thing up there there's real people with real lives Who lived there and know L.? How to balance out the opportunity that resource development provides with the very are- important credible surface resources that entire cultures and civilizations of have been depending it upon for thousands of years and his argument was it's naive to think that this is a part of the US that you put off limits and you think it's gorgeous but you don't actually drill and mine there that's part of what it's there for? And in fact that is the economic lifeblood of Alaska and you know it certainly when you when you talk to younger folks. They are aware of how things have changed. And they're all these ways in which resource development and particularly oil development has allowed them to have a level of self determination. And so it's hard to say no to that but at the same time particularly some of these young people are looking a few decades ahead and and wondering what sort of life can they have going forward. They're in fear of your future. They're in fear of their losing all their we're hunting grounds. You know. They take pride in learning and being able to go out there and you know even just to catch their first caribous was catch their fish. And you know they. They have a lot of pride in that in honor and our subsistence way of life mm-hmm so what does the current status of oil drilling in this town. So there's significant oil development just a matter of miles miles away by conaco Phillips. We're also at a moment where the trump administration is pushing to expand oil development on the a federal land that abuts accent and so for example in December the Interior Department is going to auction off nearly four million acres of land for oil and gas drilling put it in perspective. That's roughly double the amount of land. That's been auctioned off in the entire previous decade so I can imagine that Martha Ito is probably going to continue to fight this. But it seems like that's a done deal. Yeah at the end of the day. She is left wondering what impact will she have on the Juggernaut. That is oil development on Alaska's north slope and Julia Alpern is a national affairs correspondent for the Post. Her story is the latest in the posts to see series on climate change. You can find a link to the project post reports DOT COM are This post reports podcast is brought to you by net suite by Oracle the the world's number one cloud business system and now one more thing about a new citizenship law in India last week India passed a law makes religion a criterion for nationality for the first time it creates a fast track towards citizenship and ship for migrants who entered India illegally provided. They are adherence of six religions including Hinduism Buddhism and Christianity however it pointedly excludes Islam. My name is Joanna slater. And I'm the India Bureau chief of The Washington Post opponents say the law is discriminatory and violates. India's Constitution and in response to the passage of legislation protests have erupted across the country. We including in the nation's capital New Delhi the protests represent the most significant show so of opposition to the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's since he took power in two thousand fourteen and they come just months wants after he won a stunning reelection victory back in the game but I the best on on Sunday night a protest march not too far from here turned violent and police officers stormed a nearby by university campus. Where the hit on armed students and fired tear gas shells into a library? Subway stations not too far from here were closed and several. Oh buses and other vehicles were set on. Fire protests have broken out in many cities across the country but only in a couple of cases aces have the paralysed normal life. Some of the biggest protests taking place in India's northeastern states which is a region that borders Bangaldesh Myanmar in China so the opposition to the law in the northeast is rooted in somewhat different concerns in that region. There are longstanding concerns around migrants entering the region primarily via porous border with Bangala dish so so their residents worry that the new citizenship law will make it easier for migrants to become citizens which in turn will mean demographic and linguistic stick. Change in India's northeast. If you go and look at the border did it doesn't look like the international border between two countries. We need some sometimes of insurance. We're scared government has betrayed US so annisten engine. The government does something about it. We've been people. Investing India is diverse multi-religious democracy that is also home to the second largest community of Muslims in the world even though it has hindu-majority it is also officially a secular country according to its constitution so the new law by by naming religion in citizenship law is a move away from that secular. Ethos by Prime Minister Narendra Modi mody the Leeds a Hindu nationalist party the Bhartiya Janta Party and the fear is that some of these policies could effectively turn India's Muslims into second-class citizens to join us. Later is the India Bureau Bureau chief for The Washington Post. That's Today's episode. Thanks for listening. On to Mars episode of Post reports we will have complete complete coverage of the vote in the House of Representatives to impeach the president. You can look out for that to drop in the evening shortly after the roads are taking. I'm Martine empowers. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post contributions post helping hand go directly to services run by beneficiaries. He's bright beginnings and St village and so others might eat that provides shelter food education and other services to those less fortunate in the Washington Washington D._C.. Region learn more at post helping hand dot com.
Ep. 12: Hunting Pronghorn in Virgin Country and Understanding E-Scouting
"Thousands of days in the field this show is about translating my hard one experiences into tips and tactics they'll get you closer to your ultimate goal success in the field as a guide and Hunter I've spent a lot of hunt story it's hunting season you have a tag in your pocket for a place you've never been before now where do you even start in this state for this species where do I begin I just started pouring over my onyx map as soon as I got that tag looking over areas every night pins in places that I like to check out now by the time opening day rolled around I was ready to start hunting I found my spot I did a little bit of He's start opening morning or when you're in the field but the truth of the matter is for me most hunting stories should start weeks beforehand WanNa do on this podcast is cover where do you even start but I mean you talk about the basics of math reading understanding Topa map and then understanding how to put all this satellite imagery in the stuff at your hands together while you're at home so when you get out in the field you can immediately become successful what it comes down to is the time I spend looking over or what I would call each scouting on say my onyx hunt APP check that out I get into that campsite looking around on the way in I'm like man I dunno it looks good but I didn't really see any antelope where I was at he considered an over the counter archery antelope tag you had to put in for it beforehand but everybody that put in drew now having never hunted road trip camped out the first afternoon that I got into the unit season actually been open for a couple of weeks but when I got in their march camp spot start going through different units that are in their outlining places that I can hunt until I started to hone in on what I was looking for now it actually honestly spot and stalk antelope hunting with the bow can be extremely difficult so the way that I hunt them is I pretty much stock every buck that I see because honestly I could probably talk about nearly any hunt I've been on for a story that coincides with this a lot of the honeydew I've never step foot in the area even through this area multiple times so I kind of had a a rough idea of places that I wanted to check out spots that look good to me but at this point I had no spot started marking set up camp and decide to go out for the first evening the first spot that I'd marked pull my Vina's up in here is a group of so that first day start stocking in on the group of antelope on the way over there unfortunately it's always the ones you don't see that mess it up for you at least then I know the more opportunities I have more chance I will get into range and hopefully get shot my wife is actually with me and I was just kind of taking it there's a couple of does and some fawns in between the Group of box in the big group does that he'd seen US bumped off and instead of running up the hill they ran straight and when I'm at my house poring over maps one hunt stands out in particular because it's just so fresh in my mind this season I picked up an pretty much what would the little water source that was there and where they were headed and they're moving single file one at a time now just so happens that the best bucks the drawback shoot make a perfect shot antelope down in an area that I've never hunted toward the other animal blew him out ended up chasing those ones for the rest of the day and thought well figured out we're antelope bar be back here first thing in the morning out in congregating with a group of other bucks perfect I belly crawled down the mountain is probably a half a mile mile of just belly crawling get into I honestly think the best thing out there right now the Weei checked out while I was at home get into that next Canyon and sure enough here's a buck walking right toward me well that doesn't work out but he ended up going down the along she's taking some photos and some videos and other stuff and it was just more of a vacation because we're on our way up to a friend's wedding anyways we thought this would be a sweet hunt to do on the way up next morning get up in their start glossing first light pick up a different set of antelope with another buck in there do a big stock after they bed okay sweet but unfortunately it was while I was moving any just seen us soon as we'd seen him in high tailed it out of there that I'd seen the entire time was in this group all the small buck start filtering pass toward that water big buck is the last one there he stops to rake a Bush right in front of me seemed pretty pretty disturbed at this point so I pick another spot it looked good on the map that I'd marked so far hundred percent on the places that I'd already war and all the spots that I encountered animals I'd found before even stepped foot in the unit position and set up within two hundred yards this group of bucks now they're just chasing each other around and as luck would have it they start moving my direction I put myself in between of the hill and I couldn't get shot they ran away thing that sucks well keep going and getting up to a high vantage glass hello with a decent bucket sweet this is cool all right well mission accomplished now at least found what I'm looking for that's the start give you the best details that I might not even notice that I do but before I do that you I need to really understand Topa maps because that's how I started try a stock on him unfortunately as I get within thirty yards the one that was closest to me happen to be a doe he was just past the ride operating and scouting was just on paper maps it was lines there were no satellite imagery but those lines tell more of a story often than a picture do a big drive through some country they don't really see much but it is the middle of the day that evening the other spots I had marked out sure enough out pops a good buck have going for us the best new technology for hunting is the ability to E. Scout or scout from home I really believe that the onyx hunt APP is the best way to get unfortunately they're moving it doesn't work out now it's midday it's hot not seen as much so I think I'll pull out my map check another spot that I marked started doing that it's really changed the entire game of how I go about thinking about a hunt learning about a hunt or even just first step since a rapid gain in elevation further apart lines are something more gradual or flatter when you're looking at the map anything like a line that in area a makeup species that I'm hunting and then just go through it right now with you here and that way it's easier for me to kind of go through my process and then Kevin never intersecting other lines when you look at that you'll see things on the map like you'll see the top of mount which would be around circle and then coming down certain features in Topa line so we're gonNA talk about a Topa map and then I'll just go through essentially my process for scouting a new area the most from that you'll have your ridges those who'd be the lines that continue around pointing in almost a U. shape down toward a lower elevation and then inside those ridges you'll have your valley yards out blew out game over pull out my map beginning okay. I've pretty much covered this country here I know there is anil up here but shape that you see pointing down orig- pointing up is a valley now contra lines never intersect so one line runs the length of that entire elevation the lines Bendon upward fashion upward pointing valleys that make ahead basin head base because it looks like a head these are things that I really key aligns those should have the numbers of the elevations the way that it works as the lines are closer together that represents something steeper because it's over a certain amount of new with map reading there is so much technology out there it's easy to have maps at your hand but you may not understand the old school way of reading it and that's the way that I relate it to everybody is talking on her head basins but it depends on what species you're looking for so I'm going to open up my APP right now and I'm just going to give you a quick rundown of the things that I'm looking at really hold animals we think about finding say elk or any animal they only need three key things it doesn't matter if you're hunting antelope sheep whatever basic rundown of a Tokyo just GonNa give it to you right here Topa Map includes lines which are contour lines those help create the picture of another tool that I use a lot as google earth where I can see things in three d format but I I like to look for certain features in the Tokyo now just in case you're what the mountain or topography looks like on a flat surface so contrary lines like on the Onyx apper set forty feet apart then you have your index darker thing and seeing that buck move off his does and then bed in a good position stock in and as you know it they spotted me when I was about sixty explain that here in a little bit because the reason I'm looking for those finger ridges and ridges is what they do is they provide multiple areas for micro habitats his finger ridges and head basins so I'll define this for a ridge is just anywhere where we've got that descending elevation on this seems like it wouldn't but what it is doing is those contour lines are telling you preferred habitats of animals and what gives you a really good picture of what that looks like show me public and private ground. I always start my map at the Toba level okay because what I'm doing is I'm trying to key in on key features the map a finger Ridge let's say the ridge goes north south from the top of mountain down a finger Ridge would be anything that spurs down off of that so now I guess call it day to rolls around beside while I'm going to go back to that spot where I saw the big buck last night get in their first thing in the morning spot Abuk a new area because that's where I always start so what I wanna do is I'm going to open the APP I think it's just easier if I start that way open the APP and almost just randomly the habitat in a very small area so late in the season when it's cold they can get son in when it's warm they can get shade they can just choose their bedding and fee but I've got the unit so that's a start now I'm looking for public ground because that's the kind of tag I have I don't have access where I'm going so I'm now going to be having the layers on ah so let's say let's go for this we're hunting elk. I'm going to grab a random unit Montana and then I'm just going to kind of look and say what I'm doing and what I'm looking for things that include food watering cover no matter which way the wind's going or the direction of the sun they have a little bit of everything as well as provide multiple escapes another thing I'm going to look for is what I consider head basins head basins are a great area to really start focusing your search often there'll be water running down the open I'm in Montana randomly scrolling screens lands on a unit. I won't tell you what unique is I'll probably end up giving someone secret spot away particular area and just as I hoped in this head basin there's a nice what I'm looking at right now is a ridge coming down on the north slope is a big grassy open it depending on what the wind or thermals are doing for that day now that I've identified some good basins they'll look at some good head base and some goodridge's and some good finger ages over but they need open is their cover because a user eyesight so you Kinda just have to understand the animal a little bit but you have to find the three things that create good habitat back bedded in a way that it's more comfortable facing downhill so then they can look for danger down below so if you have that your mind you can really start to pinpoint where they might be more shaded which lends to good betting now if you have a head basin that includes both north and south slopes in one micro area what that's doing is creating eating areas based on the time of year in other things it also has food around and it also probably most likely has water in the bottom so they have everything they need right in this slow so the south slope is the gentle slope it's the one that gets the most son it often has the least amount of timber and often more feed the north face is often more timber D- Now I'm looking for elk I'm going to find something that probably has food water uncover in a smaller area where I like to start as I like to start looking at rid it'll area the other thing it offers it offers multiple options for bedding depending on which way the area's going because when animals bed they generally like the wind coming downhill onto the nion and then it offers the animals multiple betting options based on the orientation of the hill so think about slope of a mountain you've got the north face and then you've got doing with this is just looking at the map without any imagery ahead of time. I hit that and I have exactly what I'm looking for a timber north face and open south face just like our planning out a hunt in the area that I've never been okay so the cool thing about this APP is it has the unit so I can start their I've got the onyx for the animals so it's a really safe place for them to hang out so I'm going to start identifying these based on the Topa Lines I'm going to pick a few areas that look really good need the right habitat this sustains them and for that they need food water in cover or some kind of as far as analysts they don't really use it which would be pointing up towards the higher elevations when you get toward the top you have what I call head basins these are the spots that look like little alien heads made out a topa lines almost like a rainbow habitat it looks like some sage flats some other things this. I can mark as well for antelope type country so depending on what you're hunting has different things spots where it looks like they might hang out this will just remind me to check these spots out later now I'm gonNA switch back to the Tokyo and now I'm looking for areas where I can glass around where I can say okay I'm sitting right on this knob what's it look like can I see from here am I going to have a good vantage while it does change a little bit it gives me a good idea of places to go it has water in the bottom and looks like prime out country now from here what else start doing is dropping pins identifying spots where I believe elk will be or good of exactly where to go even though you may have never stepped foot in the area now map reading is very visual thing and I've tried to make it an some of the little features that I'm talking about right now to just give you a little bit of a kick start if you're new to this now if you read maps your whole life I think you'll catch on real quick the type for an antelope on I'm looking for something different I'm looking for more gradual terrain I'm looking for more open so I'm just going to go in the same unit zoom out go back graphical lines they look similar in a new area in hold animals those lines tell a story and if you know how to read the map those lines will tell you story looking for but just remember look at the Tokyo I and look for those topographical features that are really good indicators of Quality Habitat Tom have a file of places that you've spotted animals switch to the Topa map and see what that looks like on the map you'll be surprised how many other places you find top points down to a lower elevation indicates a ridge whereas align that points up toward a higher elevation indicates a valley so think of it like these us. Oh and more of a real life feel what it looks like once I've identified the spots that the animals like using the tow lines from there I go back to my aunt book after not knowing your alphabet and go start to finish while you're out there get the building blocks to the story of what you're seeing on paper and looking I think you're GonNa Start Understanding what I'm talking about but to help you out I think what I'll do today is I'll try to post some pictures on Instagram at Romy warn instagram tasty critters out there so what I'm going to talk about next week is ways to get that rifle steady there's a lot of little tricks to getting steady in the field into this spot so I'm looking for a knob or something might get a visual idea of somewhere I can get you in see this area where to hunt from a lot of times the things that I'm looking for just studying those maps using them in real time when you see stuff when you're out there just start marking an understanding when you're out there radio thing today which I understand can be a little bit tricky now I think if you take what I've said just look at a map pull out some Togo map really think that's GonNa lead you to a lot of success scouting from home rifle season is bearing down on us and I hope that soon you will be bearing down on another thing I love to do when you're out there say you're in a unit you're hunting deer you've got an area where you're seeing dear mark those dear on the map then when you get home take that same pin go to Google Earth I'm opening up my google earth APP putting him coordinates and I'm flying to that spot that identified now I've got a three D Toboso lines now I'm looking for the lines are way further apart so I found a spot here on my app now a switch in between the satellite imagery as I hope it's more preferred except I'm mark the spots that I wanna glass from Hunt From and there you have it I have a pretty much my recipe for the hunt before I even show up in the area now just what I'm GonNa do is I just now switch to the hybrid map where it's got Topol and satellite imagery together so I picked this I'm romy Warren this is cutting the distance this podcast is presented by Yeti built for the wild so I'm going to divulge a few of my favorite secrets I think that your homework this week we'll just be to check out these maps while this is still fresh in your head you're probably listening are you listened to once maybe listen to it again honestly loving the feedback still thank you very much if you aren't subscriber yet subscribe wherever you can and make sure that Yeah I think that's it if you subscribe I appreciate it and still next week keep reading those maps look that Topa as well and understand what it looks like in map form reading a map is really just like learning to read it takes is a process you don't just pick up a by the end of the year I think that I'll have a good sign off that I can just use for everything but I kind of think that at this point my sign off not having a sign on driving so unfortunately you're going to have to do it at work but it's great that's a good place to bust out your Topa maps and related to the podcast again now that you've got a prime uh.
BP deploys drilling automation on Alaska's North Slope - Part 2
"You're listening to world oils. Deep dive where you'll get to know the authors of technical articles in world oil magazine and learn more about their company's technology. And how it's shaping our industry now here's your host Jim Watkins Right. We're back with the second half of our conversation with BP Parker drilling and in Lovie last episode we started discussing an article on page forty seven in the June two thousand nineteen issue of world oil. That articles called BP deploys drilling automation package on Alaska's north slope to decrease connection times improve safety and efficiency so in order to get up to speed either. Go back. Listen to the last episode. Before you're listening to this one that will give you an idea of who the players are. Who's talking all of that type of thing or you can just go to the June. Two Thousand Nineteen issue on page forty seven. Read the entire article and that will give you good background. But today we're going to get into the second half of the conversation which deals more with the technical side and the actual results from the trials. I know you're GONNA love this. But now now we get on page fifty one we get into the the section that says this article apart from every article a red in our magazine about the use of automation technology because we actually get to the results and so I mean this is where the rubber hits the road right so now the dream has happened. All automation technology has come together in one place. And you know the people are trained. And we're using it so I guess Carlos you're best guy to talk about the results. So how did that work out? Well I think you know a large a large group of a original goals where where were met. There were other areas where I think there was room for improvement but I think in general terms what in the digging scheme of things when I could say is that we were able to prove a concept that is you know largely us in the industry about you. Know Safety and reliability in the most important aspects of the business even over the speed you know speed is is not the concept of the amish as a top priority. You know we. We go safety first reliability efficiency all my end up into you know greater greater to speech but I think you know in order to accomplish those those results. A lot of things have to happen. There were some things that were controllable and there were some other things. That were not controllable. We manage you know Don holds down whole phenomenon. That sometimes are outside. You know people's control so in real terms. I think the big success for me is about you know finding consistency repeatability of sequences. You know the automated sequences that were performed. And how do we sustain that in the longer term? How do we make sure that you know those deficiencies? I really there. Most of the time it if not all the time. That's where the on the retail later on. And obviously you know. How do we bring? And how do we apply those learnings to other reverse to other groups that are interested in implementing technology now? It's true that there are so many things I mean so many aspects of it so I mean one of the things I mean. There's a lot of speed related things here in the results section. Right talking about how. How quickly things can be done and signals transferred but talk a little bit more about the safety. The safety results. I mean did you. Did you feel that it was? I mean obviously you. You guys have systems for measuring how safe that is. It was the primary increase safety due to fewer people on the rigor. I mean what what was the? What was the increase in safety there? Yeah so it's basically yeah. Safety is priority for the business. We do that is that it's kind of a given you know for for lack of a better word. Yeah in in terms of removing people. From harm's way I think that is you know a great coauthored decrease in in in the way you know. The operation is actually being performed. That's that's how critical element but then when you combine a safe abrasion that we will you know from the get go with. We will not compromise safety by any means and that was kind of a ground rule for anything and everything we did and we will always. Do you know respective where there was an out the mating project or not for us you know. Safety is always in top so having the premise you know. How do we incorporate efficiency stems? How do we? How do we try things out? And then how do we make results so removing people from the harmless way is is a is a good example but I think there are other other areas and and I think don wants to say something here? Yeah and from the driller drilling contractor side for me and a guy that was a driller for for many years. I'd say the big piece of the safety that I see was not necessarily removing people but it removes where their attention has to be applied to be able to still achieve great results. A driller can make a good connection and he can make it in a timely manner but he has to have his focus on that equipment and on the screens in front of him and everything he's doing and he can't necessarily focus on what the people are on the rig floor doing and so allowing this automated system to be able to take it off bottom and set it into the slips or out of the slips and get it back on bottom drilling. He's able to focus on different areas. He's able to really pay attention to what has guys on the rig floor doing. He's able to pay attention to the parameters as the equipment starts up and that to me. It shifted that lead guy where his his safety focus of that. That's true and and and and I think just to compliment that in a bigger scheme of things you know when we talk about higher hierarchy of controls you know it for heather management you know whenever we eliminate or sixty two you know potential for house. Our is when you know when the systems are are more efficiently in terms of reduction and I think this system provides a lot of that we have the ability to remove. You know human performance factors from some of the teachers. Have you take the have? It had to be completed in a routine basis. And you know let's say that Then mentioned that allows the the driller to perform older critical tasks when he doesn't have to focus on the on the mechanics of of some of the you know the those duties so I think all in all you know it is. It is a very visible safety improvement outcome in day in the project itself. Something sorry if I could just see the spirit of going back to the the culture and partnership on this in learning together some initiative that. Dan's team took when we were in the initial planning face on this topic of safety is one of the primary deliverables was to invent something new. That dance team actually helped implement on the parkway seventy rig so. Dan had the idea of connecting a lighting system in accustomed to the Novo system which is are the name of automation platform. So that in this shielded rig as he's Arctic rigs are where we have interior lighting systems whenever the automation system was active. A red lighting system would activate automatically tied in the loop with automation system. I don't think we actually put that in the article but it was really neat because there was a visual change to the way the workspace looked on the rig floor when the system was active and that was a visible signal to the drilling crews that hey drillers not controlled observing. The system is doing what it's being. What has been prescribed to do and the red zone was marked off and not allowed to be entered into until that red light was off nice so it was really neat. And so the in the spirit of that there was a very clear scope defined for what the system was going to control what it was not going to crawl control and that was mirrored by the visual aspects of the system that we integrated and so really all in the drill crews really need only be on the drill floor drilling operations if they're making a break and connections and racking in wrecking pipe everything else is handled by the system. That's amazing and that is a great. That was a great idea. Then who thought of that? Did you see that the red light though? Yeah no I think actually it was me and the and the drilling team we we did discuss you know about controlling the red zone and we've got a lot of pieces of equipment around the rig and and if if a person's operating vacancy if somebody's out there but if if the drilling rig has its own operating system that's that's you know doing an automated function it doesn't know if a person's out there and so being able to tie that that red light green light system to when the drillers controlling it or when the the Nogo says controlling it was Was a key piece to helping. Let our guys know when they can and can't be in those areas so yeah it was Discussions between myself. And and rig manager's and drillers about how come up with a control measure for that. I talk about owning to definitely illustrated to us. That these guys were here on this. Yeah exactly exactly well in on page fifty one of the article then we get into all the details of the results ride so I mean you know you could see there that a four minute per intermediate whole section connection to minute per production whole section. You know those times those times and you're talking about the the wait to slip sequences you know being what showed compatible wait wait. Let's go back and do that. One again. So we were looking at the results on page fifty one and so Andrew. Why don't you take us through those in that first paragraph there sure? Yeah and actually these results on page fifty one are also referencing. Some of the charts on figure three and page fifty as well so with that in line we had a number of KPI's and I'll break them into three categories as we summarize them actually even if you go back to page forty eight just for context and the third column the primary KPI categories or speed consistency and HSE Q. And in this case when we're talking about the automation system and we reference HSE Q. We're talking about having the right data the right time to make better decisions right to protect people. I protect the operation. Make sure we go out there and do we say we're going to do and so with that mindset of speed consistency and hse queue management. We'll talk about the speed. I and as Carlos we said earlier normally the operators are are going to want to be sold on those. Kpi's in that order. How fast can you do this? How much you can save you money. Can you repeat it? And oh by the way. Are there no train wrecks reality? What made this project successful as BP flipped those and were able to get a little bit more strategic in terms of how we were going to implement this value which was game changing. And that's why we're able to write this paper that we were and set a great example for the industry so when we talk about speed I urge everyone to think about it in context these. Kpi's are flipped right intentionally so so connection times in the speed category. We saw consistent thirty percent reduction across the nine initiative that this paper references and we saw our standard deviation in our connection times. Get DOWN TO THE ONE MINUTE RANGE. So which is unbelievable. You're talking about a year year of work. You're knocking off a ton of time just on on the connection process and making Go back to the drill. Crews their day at work a predictable at work right so then going into the R. O. P. Which is what most people think about when they think about speed you know one of the primary challenges technical challenges in these wells drilling on the north slope in Alaska is well stability so r.i.p was definitely not one of the primary drivers of this project and so just WanNa contextualized figure four on page fifty one these increases in R. O. P. and reductions in. Msa that we're seeing were primarily. We're primarily able to achieve them in formations. Were the poor pressure. Frat gradient allowed us to do so and where we were. We had a prescribed reduce risk for war breeding phenomena and so in the planning process with Carlos his team. We made sure that pushing for our OPIE was a focused initiative that we had for those specific formations because the primary goal of this was safety and stability aside so wherever we could push it safely we did and we saw consistent results. So we talked about the speed and the consistency. And then if we go over to page fifty to figure five talking about the HSE Q. Piece of value proposition. That's our EFD viewer stands for equivalent fluid density or equivalent circulating density static density depending on your operation and this is illustrative one of the phenomenon that we saw but we saw many all it. Steve actually talk us through this one here. So one of the key differences in the system from a pressure perspective in a will. Stability Evaluation is our traditional measurements of always been limited to a single point in the drill string so typically the BA when you look drilling horizontal wells is that a truly relevant data point. Well it is for that Paul the well but it's not for the other wagner and a half thousand six and a half ten thousand feet of open hold it. You have so. This system opened up that space by providing a long string measurements then provided the data into the viewer which uses multiple measure points to create a effectively using a gradient system a complete visualization of the well bowl and the phenomenon that shown here is is illustrating. Ho cleaning but what you see is the shape of that profile is representative of multiple points in the strings so the darker area represents a zone of much higher density which is representative of cuttings loading in the annuals. But you can see as the as the CIA moves from left to right with time you can see the whole start to clean up. His DACA zone pinches out now traditionally we would have not known the hallways clean until we saw the entire circulation had been completed but today we can now make decisions based on data we now know the holes already cleaning up we can start progress because we know the lower part of the annual is clear and thought waste is now going to clear out the whole and and this this particular technology if you're looking multiple data sets simultaneous. If you look at the Monitor traditional strip graph you would. You wouldn't be able to absorb that information that way. And and the visualization that we created wall specific you to help people digest a complex data. Set something to add to that too is on the agency key management piece of this KPI and context of the DVR. We're trying to knock down Roosevelt and we're trying to knock down barriers that are bad habits that we didn't even know we had so you don't know until you measure it right and that's that's kind of the ethos of the system and so typically in this scenario where you would have cuttings load. A standard decision tree model would have been selected. We would've followed a predefined processor standard operating procedure and it would been done when the process. We're done right. That would've taken a given amount of time amount of money. Got Yati Yata right in this case we're done when the data says we're done only do it when the data says we do it and so we're transitioning from the technical piece over to the financial piece of operations management. You know we're ensuring that the dollar spent where the dollars are needed and that's what increases the attractiveness of this not to US nerds that love Guiliani but the management teams that now need actually had office had a financial and business management level as well right when you when you look back the other chart that was on in figure four there on page fifty one. You have the the cost per foot. Change was all that incorporated or I mean. That's the drilling costs per foot total. That wasn't that was the whole thing I mean. Are we saying that? The results the the savings in straight dollars was nine point. Five percent is that whereas that's it only for the formations were able to technically increase are right right on there when there wasn't an E. C. D. limitation that we had to be wary of so in the formations where there there was a ceiling effectively. No technical ceiling or Py's that's where we saw the consistent increase about ten and a half percent and R. O. P. almost massive reductions almost fifty percent reduction and MS values and that result Gosper foot. But that doesn't apply to the whole interval and then something just a note to tie the speed with the consistency just to kind of round this out because the automation system controls from slips to slips everything except pipe handling were controlling his Carlos and Dan mentioned how we pull up out of slips. How we tag bottom and then how the sections drilled. And then when we're done how we come up off bottom anything we do. Before we go back into slips like creaming pickups and slack offs slide To rotate transitions if needed things like that. But because of the we can specifically prescribe how we go to bottom and how we come off and then how we implement best practices for off bottom off bottom from our background for Stephen from drilling optimization perspective is where most of the down hole tool damages haven't from traditionally when adult bit comes up for a beat the heck. Vha comes to surface. People are quick to was done drilling. Yeah blame it on the formation exactly during drilling and so what we've seen as rebel to prescribe these bottom best practices into the system. We're not only able to drill faster. But we're able to mitigate unintentional damages where they're actually occurring so you're actually able to get increased performance and longer sustained runs so to knock on effect that's very positive and the and the polls benefit of that from Hse Q. is that means less trips. So the guys have to handle the pipe it's it. During those two transitional phases you develop an understanding and one of the unique things about the overall technology suite you'll cycle time between understandings is shortened dramatically and therefore the changes. You make you. Can you can make almost instantaneously. And then using the process control there you now build them into your process and so they become part of the system institutional they become exactly exactly. You don't have to make the same mistake again and again and again until you recognize one time fix it is done right and projects where we had tried to roll this system out before we had the full Novo system and when we had the project mentality we would achieve great results. Leave for your come back. And there'd been there would have been enough turnover on the rig where the rig would almost returned to the performance levels. Add before we touched it. Why just sad. Because then you have to reinvest again right. Exactly get to those previous performance levels so now that we're through automation systems institute institutionalizing lessons learned. You have a guaranteed almost of continuous improvement. Which is one of the primary. Kpi'S FOR BP? Carlos mentioned as well right. All right guys will. I think we're coming up against the end of it. So let's just go around to everybody because you know. I think I mentioned this before but most people will be listening. Probably in their car on a commute somewhere and so hopefully they'll go back and they'll take a look because the information in the article is is really really useful especially when you're talking about the the graphs and the results. You know the different results so for everybody. Who's listening more time? That's world oil. June two thousand nineteen issue starting on page forty seven but Carlos. Let's start with you for the people who aren't going to get a chance to go back and look at the article what's the most important takeaway from this for them. Okay for me. Is You know modernisation. On formation of the of the oil industry obviously is you know the the forefront when it due to stay current. We need to make sure that you know the industry moves along with you. Know what can we do better and this is a good detriment of that. You know if you should see increase through consistent repeatable. Sequences is a key. We need to make sure that they can do is no compromise. In the in the way and we need to maintain a continuous improvement cycle. I think those elements for me are the key elements of of the of the project. And how do we transfer about knowledge to other? You know other areas. Where perhaps they don't have to reinvent the wheel by you know going through some of the the things that we that we have done here and great teamwork. That's does the last piece. This is not a single company. This is not you know an advertisement peas. I I think is you know is a multidisciplinary effort from multiple parties. That need to be all all connected all working together to to make a really good result out of that. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Carlos Dan from the drillers perspective. What do you think is the most important takeaway from this article? Obviously for people at Your Company for all drillers I think the big one for for drillers in you know it's not replacing the driller. It's just changing the way he does his job. It's allowing him to be more of a an overseer a manager of the operations and allow the equipment. Do what it's able to do you know I'll pick up a little bit where Carlos left off and just say you know. There's a reason that these groups are together in the article. These groups are together in this interview today. These groups were together in the beginning. The planning and implementation of this is it takes team work to make it make it work. You gotta be a one team that the entire way through it from the planning phase to the completion of it so after essential to the success of any operation. And then really it's technology it's always GONNA be getting more advanced as we go but you have to use it to be able to work through any bugs and make things better so so the utilization of this the teamwork and the continual improvement of this is is just the way it will be successful. And it's gotta be safety driven. That safety team. Carlos really drove that home. And you know I think that really was a key takeaway and guys here Steve Takeaway. Yeah I'd like to reiterate some of the sentiments by Donna and Carlos Teamwork walls absolutely paramount. We've we've talked through how complex the system is and we were talking about an extended logistical process. We were talking about a very remote location and bring all the people together required a level of teamwork collaboration that was absolutely mandatory for success. But I think one of the other things that's really important about this project was was proof the when you combine all of those parts you can deliver better decisions when you use data you can make the rig potentially more safe by people being more aware being used to make those better decisions and it was proof that those synergies all work to potentially deliver better well and I. I think that's that's really important about what we would what we would doing. But it's also I think the other thing is that every body within the industry has to understand that they will go through cultural change through adoption of automation but we proved the you can be successful and you can leave one of the key to me. One of the most important parts of automation is consistent reliable repeatable performance and. I think that was a really big part of this project. Now while the numbers definitely bear that out when you look at those results and. I don't know people who've made a lot of a lot of pretty concise summaries there. Do you have anything to add as far as Takeaways yeah I'd just say you know not too much extra added say that the technology is here. The culture is not quite yet and I think that this project and the team as as everyone has said such a great example for the rest of the industry in terms of how we can be successful in terms of the modernization transformation as a whole and operator ownership is key to actually pull everyone together to become successful. I wanted to the final point is I think this is part of the gateway to the transformation that the industry is going and the enablement of a lot of the digital strategies. The majority of operators are attempting to implement in the coming years. Alright well Carlos one thing before. Let you go on this. I gotta ask from all of this and you know maybe we have to go back and cut this from the final edit but so from this experience. Are you guys planning to do this again? Somewhere else. I believe you know we Andrea Parola? Have more information on that but I you know I think that our opportunities in other regions due to continue developing the systems. Well Yeah here. In in in the Alaska region I am not aware of any any short-term opportunities but but I think in the mid term when my t- you know things things coming back I I couldn't tell you that spirit speculation at this point. I do believe that technology is got a niche and go you know areas where you know the margin the margin that that the business in those regions per se would be able to do track new technologies and an improvement of that nature. It is very dependent. Yup Okay interesting all right well thank you guys very much for being with us today and great article great success thank you all for being here with. Us heads real quick once they thanks for. Bp and Parker freezing allowing us to to share the story with the industry and thanks for world oil for really helping us to be empowered to do so while. Yep now that that's huge. That's huge to have you know. Bp and Barker on here that that really makes all the difference. So thank you thank you Carlos Daniel. Thank you very much and give thanks for listening. Take a look at today's show notes for links we mentioned in the podcast. We enjoy your feedback. So if you have any questions or comments email them to deep dive at world oil DOT COM CHECK OUT WORLD OIL DOT com for the best oil and gas industry technical articles and news and join us next time for another deep dive with world oil.
Trump Administration Finalizes Plans To Allow Oil Drilling In Arctic Refuge
"The trump administration is pushing ahead with plans to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge environmental groups say they will sue as less Ruskin of Alaska public media reports. The decision is a key moment in a long environmental battle. The coastal plain of the refuge is a place where Caribou give birth and polar bears make their Dan's environmental groups call it a biological heart of a priceless ecosystem. The area is also believed to contain a lot of oil. Sierra, club lobbyist eighth and manual has been fighting to keep rigs out of the refuge for more than twenty years. He says, the trump administration is rushing to get at least one company to bid on Lisa's before the end of president trump's term and the possible arrival of a new president who opposes drilling. Ran this down people's throats to show that they can still drill where they wanNA drill and still prop up the oil industry. Even in the face of evidence of climate change wants drilling rights are sold it will be harder for a future president to reverse course but manual says, the administration is making a fateful decision by not doing enough to protect polar bears, we have a lot of leverage in the courts under the endangered species act to push back aggressively, and that's going to do. We're not certainly giving up drilling advocates like Alaska's senator. Lisa Murkowski like to point out that the coastal plain is a relatively small area. Of Refuge the size of South Carolina. She is largely responsible for including oil development in the tax bill congress passed in two thousand seventeen. Murkowski says oil development on Alaska's north slope is always done with most care for the wildlife and the land itself. The environmental safeguards are such that you can't. Take. Exploration. Rigs out on the Tundra in the summer where it might leave a mark. Now we wait until it's the coldest darkest the ground is frozen as far as it possibly can. Today's decision doesn't set a date for the oily sale but Interior Secretary David Bernhardt says it could happen sin I do believe that certainly could be at least sal by the end of the year. It's not clear though that oil companies will want to bid oil prices have been pummeled by the pandemic and several major financial institutions have pledged not to finance efforts to develop this part of the Arctic. For NPR news I'm Liz Ruskin in Anchorage.
Locals Support Trump's Decision To Allow Drilling In Alaska's Arctic Refuge
"This message comes from npr sponsor comcast business gig fueled network solutions that help businesses grow beyond be expected to do extrordinary comcast business beyond fast learn more at comcastbusiness dot com v trump administration will soon take a big step towards drilling oil in alaska's arctic national wildlife refuge it hopes to sell leases oil companies before the end of this year now this was a major reversal when congress opened up the refugee a year and a half ago because her decades opponents have argued that drilling will harm the refugees unique landscape caribou and burn to migrate there but in the one village inside the refuge many alaskan natives see auriol development as an opportunity not herself alaska's energy desk reports perched on a bluff overlooking the ocean you can still see a mile long shelf of ice having in cocteau vic but see ice has been melting and that means more hungry polar bears are coming cocteau rick you only village along a two hundred mile stretch in alaska's north slope twenty four year old nathan gordon junior keeps watch from the seat of his four wheeler that my job to make sure the town is safe at all visitors at the same time theoretic refuges tundra mountains surround cocteau back there no roads in her out and there's no oil infrastructure nearby but gordon paycheck it comes largely from the oil industry thanks to drilling in prudhoe bay to the west those property taxes from petroleum also paid for a sixteen million dollar new basketball gym in sunday fulltime fire department residents also have flush toilet switcher lacking in dozens of other alaska villages outside the refuge often called anwar gordon says oil has done a lot for cocteau vic in its native new residence yeah people had been been seen really great through all of this and i am for am or opening or yeah it's been great kids for the economy for our village and everything that would go on yet cocteau vicks drilling boosters say their voices have long been ignored in the debate over the refuge even though their ancestors have lived in the area thousands of years they still though wanna make sure development doesn't jeopardize residents ability the harvest caribou during the summer in wales every fall at the end of the work day inside one of the towns to restaurants i find charles lamb be a captain of one of the cruise the hunter wealth offshore we wanna make sure that we have the voice to tell them where we where we fish where we now know the places where we know caribou coffee great during the summertime during their calving cnn's other residents are less convinced that oil infrastructure can coexist with their lifestyles carlos hyde talk is an avid hunter and camper and she says even living in a small village she values the open spaces nearby when we get away it's quiet right now and i am afraid wants the development starts happening that's not gonna happen where are we gonna go how you talk says speaking up can be intimidating here she's been accused of ignoring benefits from oil could come to the village where nothing we just we we value something different from what you value it's still too early to know exactly how close infrastructure might come cocteau back after leasing companies will still have to drill wells deceive commercially viable amounts of will even exist under this coastal plain and then if they find it they'll need environmental reviews and permitting before they can pump it out from the bluff at the edge of town gordon the polar bear patroller looks out over the tundra of the west
Byte Mark Holden Peter Skilling
"Bite is a new series here on Scifi talk and the sci-fi talk, archive podcast and so parenting an apocalypse it's it's not the same way that we would do. It's either full interviews or a comment or question from past interviews time wise, it's about one to four minutes long on an average. Probably when you when you live long enough, all kinds of strange things happen. Very right in saying that the Greek heroes where the original superheroes. In part because of the nature of genes vision, but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion. Mark Holden is the producer and director of a new audio series called dust arises from the network that brings US Quality SF projects. This series will adapt stories from science, fiction and horror writers, and one of those stories is Peter Skilling, I like it because it talks about life and death and. I guess you can say kind of like a day. Rip Van Winkle. Only the person who sleep and that's about all. Say about it, but. I like that concept, and that's what Seifi does so well. What if you know what if this happened and then when you get that premise, then you start to build a story on it so great story and a great choice bang. Yeah! We had a great time working on that one as well. There's there's a I or robots. You might say in this in in kind of choosing how they spoke. Did, you base it on anything that we've seen or did you kind of kind of go your own approach with that? That's a great question you know. The actor that we hired for this. Is such a great imaginative talent. He actually came pretty prepared. Pretty close. We we haven't had A. About it, we're too many times, and I just say hey, you know. Come with what whatever you think you know and he always does his homework. He came with this with this idea. and I you know we love it out of the gate. We sort of tuned it a little bit in the first I you takes that we did, but it was just sort of had US laughing, but in a in a good way like it had us because he came with this really neutral approach, and we were I. I don't know that that's what I had in mind. The great thing about working with great actors is that if you you know if they bring something, you know that you haven't thought of and you run with it a lot of times. It turns out better than whatever it was in your head. anyways, so I wanNA, thank you. It was one of the best approaches of any actors ever come in with for Jeremy. Just loved it Peter. Skilling did not remember falling into a glacial Crevasse on the North Slope of Mount Mckinley. So it came as a surprise to him when he awoke to find what appeared to be a robot sitting next to his bed. You're a very lucky man. Peter, Skilling, a genuinely unique set of circumstances. You might sustain fatal trauma from your fault, but look you fell into a subglacial stream, resulting in scrapes and bruises only, and you might have been ground to gel by the glacier, but for the earthquake that struck hours after your death, and sheared away a portion of the mountain, leaving your body exposed in a depression away from the redirected glacier, then to consider the above average snowfall that encased your remains and protected you from the depredations of weather and wildlife. Remains noting the dryness of his throat, the robot moved swiftly to unseal thin hose from the wall and place. It's nipple in Peter's mouth. Reflexively Peter sucked and his mouth filled with cool water. This is truly amazing. Chapter on your Saga Mr Skilling. You died so quickly and in such cold water that if you'll permit me an inorganic speech, your autonomic system shorted out. Your brain function is astonishingly well preserved, and we have been able to surgically reconstruct damage pathways. You are perfect candidate. Quite a fine if I do say so myself. Do you consider yourself sufficiently apprised of the fortuitous circumstances in which you find yourself. Yes very good I am called Burkhardt I. Wish you the very best. Look for Dust Horizons on dust. Comments or questions or welcome at Scifi talk at AOL dot. COM FOR BITE. This is Tony. Tamalada.
Blunders by Arizonas governor turned his state into the new ground zero for covid-19
"Good Morning I'm James Holman from the Washington. Post in! This is the daily two. Oh two for Friday June twenty-sixth in today's news, the trump administration asks the supreme court overturned the entire affordable care act including coverage for existing conditions. Trump racist open more than two thirds of the largest swath of US public land to drilling. And protesters in DC are now demanding the removal of Statue of Abraham Lincoln. But first. The big idea. Arizona's testing sites are totally overwhelmed, people in Phoenix or baking in their cars for hours sitting in long lines so that they can get tested because they have the symptoms of the coronavirus this week, Arizona reported not just record single-day increase in new cases with nearly four thousand new cases almost every single day, but they also reported the use of impatient beds and ventilators at record levels. Public Health experts on the ground are warning that hospitals in Arizona could be stretched so thin that they may have to begin triaging patients by mid-july. Arizona today has more per-capita cases of the coronavirus than were recorded at. By any country in Europe or even by hard hit, Brazil Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix is recording as many as two thousand new cases a day, eclipsing every borough of New York City even on their worst days of March. And April the state has lost control. Arizona has become the new global epicenter of the crisis. And it didn't have to be this way. Physicians Public Health experts, advocates and local officials tell my colleagues Jeremy Do is extremely becker and Chelsea Jane's who've been reporting on the ground that this crisis was not just totally predictable, but avoidable local ordinances, requiring masks were literally forbidden until Governor Doug Ducey. A Republican finally reversed course last week. It's one of several major blunders by ducey that have made this crisis so bad. State leaders did not take the necessary precautions. They did not model safe behavior when forbearance was most required as the state began to reopen despite continued community transmission, an abrupt and uniform approach without transparent benchmarks or latitude for stricken areas to hold back lead large parts of the public to believe the pandemic was over. The states cases began rising dramatically on about may twenty fifth ten days roughly incubation period after ducey allowed the states stay at home order to expire entirely. Still even now resistance to health precautions remains pronounced on the hard right. An anti mask rally on Wednesday a member of the Scottsdale City Council, Republican. Guy Phillips shouted dying words of. Floyd. I can't breathe before ripping off his mask. Almost every stage of this states pandemic response the interests of big business have taken priority over public health. Ducey is the former CEO of cold stone creamery. He was an active member of the COQ political network before he ran for office. Experts say the seeds of this crisis were planted in early May president trump was pushing hard for states to reopen, and he was coming to Arizona Tour Honeywell plant. The day before the president's visit, Ducey announced plans to accelerate the reopening of his state's economy faster than planned lifting restrictions on salons and barbershops, allowing restaurants to resume dine in service. A chart displaying the number of new cases at that point showed the state was not anywhere close to meeting the fourteen day decline in new cases that was strongly recommended by White House. Guidelines, but Doocey said quote. That metric really doesn't tell you much. That evening the state ended its partnership with the university modeling team in Arizona, who's projections plainly showed a rising caseload in Arizona. Two days later, top health officials political appointees acknowledged jinking the stats. They changed the way they were counting test results in a way that had the high likelihood of artificially lowering the positivity rate. Ducey was touting at that point, the low positivity rate as evidence. The state could reopen even though it wasn't meeting all the other metrics. Here's then what made it worse? deuce. He didn't just block local governments from imposing restrictions to protect their own residents. His administration has threatened to cut off state funding in retaliation for such local regulations. Regina Romero. The Democratic Mayor of Tucson said the biggest challenge that she's had has been governor Ducey tying her hands in the hands of mayors and county health departments across the state. She said she weighed in emergency proclamation, mandating masks in mid March, but our city attorney advised her against it, warning that the city could lose millions of dollars in state funding that they depend on to deliver vital services that dissuaded her and it probably maybe cost lives I should say here that Ducey's press office in his political appointees at the health department did not respond to several of our requests for comment. Sadly, what's happening in Arizona is playing out to lesser degrees across the sunbelt. The situation is as dire today in Florida and Texas as it's been at any time since the start of the pandemic Texas Governor Greg Abbott, a Republican paused his states reopening yesterday, ordering hospitals in four large counties to postpone elective surgeries. Some. Epidemiologists are also worried about what they've taken to calling a reverse summer affect. Remember how we thought or hoped that warm weather would kill off. The virus will instead what's happening is it's driving residents into indoor spaces that are cooler with a C., but that have recycled air. They're much more likely to catch the coronavirus in those conditions. Early in the outbreak. Trump, told governors they were on their own for testing medical supplies and stay at home orders now in this new phase of soaring cases amid reopenings, the effects of this decentralized decision making are particularly noticeable and subject to politics with some states, making plainly arbitrary decisions. Yesterday America had more than thirty nine thousand new cases, its highest ever single day count. In addition to Phoenix. The counties that are home to cities Dallas Tampa also reported record. High average is at least fifteen straight days June, several other states in addition to Arizona including Arkansas both Carolinas Mississippi Tennessee, Texas and Utah have recently reported new highs in the number of. Corona virus patients. And several Republican governors are also being accused by public health experts of manipulating data to make things look better than they really are in Georgia one of the first states to lift restrictions. Officials reporting to governor, Brian, Kemp. Published a chart claiming to show decline in cases over time. However, it turned out. The data were arranged in descending order not. So that it looked like there is decline when there was not. This isn't funny. Because more than one hundred and twenty, two thousand of our fellow Americans have now succumbed to the contagion. The head of the CDC, said yesterday the Corona Virus, infections may be ten times higher than the two point. Four million cases reported CDC Director Bob Redfield. Which is based on antibody testing, the feds are doing indicates that. At least twenty four million Americans have been infected so far. Redfield said he believes about five eight percent of the US. Population has had the infection. This is significant because that means that ninety two to ninety five percent of US remain susceptible to corona virus, infections. Experts say that. This is the critical data point showing that the pandemic remains in its early stages, and people need to continue to do everything they can to try to limit the viral spread. And that's the big idea. Here are three other headlines that should be on your radar as we end. What has been another hellish week in America? Number One. The trump administration filed a brief late last night with the Supreme Court that argued. This is a direct quote. The entire ACA must fall. The administration's argument comes as hundreds of thousands of Americans have turned the government program for healthcare after they've lost their jobs because of the contagion. Dismantling the ACA will leave more than twenty three million Americans without healthcare. The administration's brief was filed in support of a challenge to the Law by coalition of Republican Attorneys General. The filing came the same day the same day that a government report showed nearly half a million. Americans turn to the for care in April and May amid the economic devastation wrought by covid nineteen, according to the report from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services, four hundred eighty seven thousand Americans took advantage of the special enrollment period on healthcare dot Gov after losing their health insurance, because they were among the millions of Americans. WHO LOST THEIR JOBS? The numbers market, forty six percent increase from enrollments in April and May twenty, one, thousand, nine hundred. Joe Biden said during a campaign stop in Pennsylvania yesterday that axing the healthcare law as the nation is still reeling from the pandemic would amount to a double whammy for covid nineteen survivors. He worried that insurers would view covid nineteen is a pre existing condition, and without the would be able to deny coverage for survivors. Oral arguments are scheduled for the next term at the supreme, court, but it's unclear if it'll happen before the election and a decision in the case may not come until two thousand twenty one. Trump is said publicly that he wants to protect health coverage for Americans with pre existing conditions and a White House spokesman reiterated that in a statement sent us overnight, but the administration has never presented any plan showing how it would accomplish that and the brief from the Justice Department literally takes very explicitly the opposite position. In this new brief, Solicitor General Knoll Francisco argues that provision protecting Americans with pre existing conditions or high risk, medical histories are quote inseparable from the individual mandate which was struck down by Republicans in their tax cut bill, twenty seventeen, and therefore everything needs to be taken away. Even many in trump's own high command, including Attorney General Bill Bar have privately urged a less aggressive posture. The. Fearing that advocating for its total elimination will backfire mightily against Republicans at the polls in November especially down ballot Republicans, but trump has insisted on trying to destroy the system, root and branch. Number to. The trump administration also issued a proposal yesterday to remove wildlife protections for a tract of land in Alaska that have been in place for more than four decades. Indeed presidents. Bill Clinton George W Bush and Barack Obama all enlarge the protected areas, originally created by Gerald Ford but trump appointees at the bureau of land management are pushing before the election to allow fossil fuel extraction eighty two percent of what's called the National Petroleum Reserve Alaska on the states north slope. It's one of the most beautiful areas in the World Juliet EILPERIN and Steve muffs. Who won a Pulitzer Prize for writing about how climate change is impacting this area last year explained that while this area is less famous than the nearby. Arctic National Wildlife. Refuge it is one of the most ecologically valuable tracts of federal property, providing a critical refuge for polar bears, as well as tens of thousands of migrating Caribou and waterfowl. The reserve about the size of the State of Indiana is also one of the most promising onshore oil prospects in the country, a recent analysis by the US. Geological Survey offered a mean estimate of eight point, seven billion barrels, undiscovered oil and twenty five trillion cubic feet of natural gas, the BLM posted notice of its final environmental impact statement on Thursday and is expected to issue the final record of decision within thirty days, environmentalists in some Alaskan natives who've lived on the north slope for Millennia and depend on its game for substance are likely to challenge the decision in court once it's finalized. Number three. The epicenter of the protests in D. C. Right now which have been going on for about a month is Capitol Hill, but not the capital. Lincoln Park it's a few blocks away from the capital, protesters are demanding the removal of a statue of Abraham Lincoln that shows him standing over a kneeling African American, who is unshackled as the martyred president holds a copy of his emancipation proclamation. The statue was erected eleven years after Lincoln was assassinated in the days after he won the civil war Furyk. Douglas spoke at that event to unveil the statue. It's one of his most famous speeches. Critics say the memorial is demeaning in its depiction of African Americans by suggesting that they were not active contributors to the cause of their own freedom. These critics had planned to try to pull down the statue last night, but federal officers. Including US MARSHALS In, the National Guard as well as DC. Police swarmed the area and erected barriers to protect the Lincoln Statue. They continue to be there on high alert. A massive protest is planned again for tonight at this park. DC Muriel Bowser Democrat is pleading with residents not to tear down a statue of Lincoln of all people without having a civil debate. She said quote. We should not have a mob decide. They want to pull it down. Meanwhile the US Park Police and the FBI are searching aggressively for the protesters who tried to topple the injured Jackson statue outside the White House earlier this week last night. The FBI put out photos of fifteen individuals on or near the bronze statue, and called for members of the community to contact Departments Criminal Investigations Unit if they know who they are. Trump says he's serious about putting these people and anyone who faces a federal statue behind bars for up to ten years of hard time. Tensions continued to run high here in the nation's capital. and. That's the daily to to for Friday, June twenty-sixth. Thanks for listening. Our show is produced by Ariel PLOTNIK and RV. Music is by Ted. Muldoon I'm James Holman. Stay safest weekend. I'll talk to you on Monday.
06-26-20 June in the news
"Welcome into native America. Calling from studio forty nine in Albuquerque and Monica Brain, the Navajo Times is halting production of the newspaper for a few weeks. Because of cases of covid maintain, we'll check in with the publisher on what they are doing to continue coverage of high rates of coronavirus. Donation also an investigation by a nonprofit news outlet found a hospital in Mexico, racially profiled native mothers for Kobe Nine nineteen tests. And a federal court is upholding the cancellation of oil and gas leases in the Badger two medicine area of Montana. It's our news roundup. We'll be right back. This is national native news. Making camera in Parental Gonzales, the Navajo nation and White Mountain Apache tribe continued a brace against a rise in covid nineteen cases across Arizona, Christine Trudeau reports, the Navajo nation had a brief period of reduced cases earlier this week, including a day with no new deaths from covid nineteen, even as the rest of the state is struggling to contain the pandemic on Thursday Arizona Governor Doug Ducey pleaded with residents to stay home in the wake of a surge of Covid, nineteen cases that threatens to overwhelm the medical systems ability to handle them. Home Nation President Jonathan Nez meanwhile said the increase in Covid nineteen cases remains in his words. Alarming Buddy said it could be attributed to what he says is blitz testing? The reservation has had among the highest per capita corona virus infections in the nation this week they mourn the loss of a twenty nine year veteran of the tribal police force who died of Covid nineteen? Navajo officials honored fifty year old Michael Lee by. By flying flags at half staff this week, Nez citizens to continue social distancing wearing face masks, coverings and practicing isolation as of Thursday. Navajo Nation reported one hundred and twenty-one new confirmed cases White Mountain Apache Tribal Chairwoman, winding elite Gatewood updated tribal citizens this week that the total number of cases of covid nineteen has risen to one, thousand, five, hundred, thirty, seven, and the total number of deaths to nineteen I'm Christine Trudeau. In what may be a first for the municipality of Anchorage Three, indigenous women will serve on the city's public. Safety Advisory Commission. K. NBA trip. Krause reports on the resolution that passed unopposed. Tuesday at a meeting of the Anchorage. Municipal Assembly. The three appointments include Emily Eden. Shaw, who's the Executive Director of the Alaska Native Heritage Center I'm looking forward to rolling up my sleeves and doing good work for our people. It's an honor to serve my community and work along side these two incredible native woman by my side, Hedin Shahs, you pick a new PEAC. The other two appointments were Charlene pick up. And Kinder- KLOSTER UP ACC- who is a new PEAC is a director of Gender Justice at Native Movement. She's also the executive director for data for indigenous justice, Klosters climate and the executive. Director of native. Peoples Action Native peoples. Action Community Fund the Public Safety Advisory. Commission examined Public Safety Issues and advices. The may earn assembly. It also provides input from various emergency service organizations to identify problems that may arise in Anchorage I'm krause. Navajo, nation. Leaders want New Mexico to end efforts to dismiss landmark education case meant to address educational inequities in the state. President Jonathan and Vice President Myron. liser released a statement this week opposing a motion to dismiss the Ozzy Martinez Lawsuit. Lawsuit Nez. Native students deserve an educational environment that prioritizes their culture and unique needs. A judge ruled in two thousand eighteen that New Mexico had denied English. Language learners, Special Education, native, American, and low income students, their constitutional right to a sufficient education. These groups make up about three fourths of the students in new. Mexico the Santa Fe new Mexican reports. The state filed a motion in March to dismiss the suit, because it claims it has met the requirements of the two thousand eighteen decision, the state argues it has earmarked millions of additional dollars for public schools. It also points to policy changes in executive orders to show why the public school system has changed. The new, Mexico Center on law and poverty, which is representing the as e plaintiffs argues the state's efforts have been piecemeal in an OP. Ed In the Albuquerque Journal they right that there are still large inequities in access to reliable Internet and technology, and they say they're still a lack of culturally and linguistically appropriate instructional materials, and there's a shortage of certified teachers. A judge will hear the motion to dismiss on Monday for national. Native News I'm making camera. National Native News is produced by Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by the Suzuki Chambers Law Firm, championing tribal sovereignty and defending native American rights since one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, six with offices in Washington DC. New Mexico California and Alaska. Support by Aarp Tele townhalls, bringing you expertise and the latest information on the coronavirus pandemic from leading experts info on the latest schedule at eight, five, five, two, seven, four, nine, five, zero seven. Native votes won the native American Radio Network. This is native America calling I'm Monica Brain. Should you be asked to get a corona virus test because of your home zip code clinicians from the loveless hospital in. The whistle on the hospital's policy because it singled out pregnant native American women. In some cases, mothers were separated from their newborns. Until the test results confirmed, they were virus free. We'll hear from the deputy director of New Mexico in depth who partnered with propublica on this investigation, also an area sacred to the black feet in Montana called Badger. Two medicine is safe from oil and gas drilling for the time being a federal court upheld. Upheld it's apartment of interior decision to cancel leases in the area. We'll hear from the tribe about this year's long battle to preserve the stretch of land near Glacier National Park, but I the Navajo. Times is closed temporarily. The outlet decided to suspend the print edition because staff members tested positive for the coronavirus. Joining us now is Thomas Vizo he's the CEO and publisher of the Navajo Times Welcome back to native America Calling Tom. Thank you, Monica! Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. How are you doing? We're doing fine. We've you know we. We got out a our online edition. It's on on Navajo Times dot. com. It's free. We put the whole newspaper online and we're getting some good reaction on it. you know we're still continuing to quarantine? We've still got a little over a week to go until we're on. Finish our quarantine. We're doing okay, we're. Doing what we're supposed to do, try and be safe and keep everyone in our employees and our customers. Advertisers shaved. That's the main thing that we're focusing on. So you had some staff members test positive for covid nineteen is. Is that why you decided to suspend publishing of the paper edition? Yes, that's that's correct. We. We had two of our part-time staff that you know working our circulation mail room area. who tested positive last Thursday. And so when we got word we you know immediately. By. The rest of the staff they were in the office. We closed the office and then we asked everyone to go and get tested. and then after that we wouldn't be made arrangements to have our office the entire office the building you know sanitizing plane and they did that this past Saturday. So. We're doing okay, but that's what occurred and you know we're making sure everyone is safe. All of our staff have been tested and. I'd say at least ninety five percent so far results. We've gotten all been negative. No one's tested positive. And, so we're just waiting for a couple of other results to come back, and then we'll be clear so. Talked about what goes into physically printing cover. You know so many so many papers today are just strictly online and I'm I'm curious about you know how much interaction is involved with putting that paper together every week? Actually just quite a bit. You know we're I'm proud to say that we're still the one and only I think that native American Own Publishing Company a newspaper that actually prints her own newspaper at their own place. You know we own our own printing presses. we have our own production equipment, and so we have staff in various departments and know we have. a schedule where you know, we have our editorial department and we've got an advertising, and and it just goes on down the line. Each department works with each other and we put. We put the paper to place. To play, we actually have our own computer to play system after the layout design is completed. Then we go to play to play. He goes to the press, but there's a lot of interaction among our employees. You know to make sure that the colors are right that the images are correct. A lot of editing, and so forth and and so we interact quite a bit and that in the. Employs did test positive were in the back, and they were near. Are Our pressure Mary? They did a lot of. Going back and forth from our circulation into our pressroom. To get newspapers, you get advertising inserts and so forth, and so that's the way we took the whole building's consideration, and we felt that it was is the best thing to do. Shut the whole place down until we can make sure that it was safe, and and of course we, we followed the guidelines by the Centers for disease, control and prevention that's part of our protocol in our office, and they strongly recommend that you have the fourteen day quarantine and and so that's why we initiated the closing our offices and You know it's it's working fine. Well and the fact that you're able to still continue putting things up. Online is pretty great as well. I. If you're just joining us, it's our news roundup today and We're talking with the publisher of the Navajo Times Tom Arvizu, and if you WANNA get in on our conversation, or maybe when ask him a question can give us a call. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four eight. So, how are you reporters doing? I know that there I imagine there's a lot of Negotiating and trying to figure out what to do in terms of how to cover. Your your nation. And also be safe at the same time, are they? Are they going out on assignment, so they mostly doing things from home? This combination of both Monica, you're actually you're right. We've got. you know we've been operating basically with just a skeleton staff since the pandemic started back in early March we. We initiated efforts to make sure that everyone. Could work from home could do that. We we work remotely as much as possible and those that need to be in the office you get to work are the ones that would come in. As far reporters, you know I. Give them a lot of credit. They're they're. They're brave. They. Take a lot of risk and going out and meeting with the you know the general public going to all the different locations throughout our reservation. You know from Tuba City all the way out to cannon to highly so then Utah It's just a huge area, but they do. They're safe. They make sure they got their masks gloves. they practice spacing, and so you know we've been really fortunate that we haven't had any instances or any problems with the with the in Corona virus up until last Thursday of course, the two employees tested positive, but so you know, knock on wood. We've been blessed and we've been fortunate that we haven't had any real issues but our reporters are doing a great job. They're out there. Talking to the people you know, get into real stories and the people who've been afflicted. You've been hurt. And also talking to all the medical staff until the police officers into the. EMT to find out what they're doing then, of course, we've always got the government. You gotta always gotTa cover the government and we're right on top of that. When it comes to them, you know making decisions about. like how they're going to spend the funding that we got the the cares money. So doing all right I my reporter's editor. You know a lot of credits absolutely well. What can you share about? covid nineteen rates on the Navajo nation right now. Well as of yesterday. Coming into This morning I, we're right about as far as positive cases where about four, thousand, three hundred. We're getting close to that mark. And I assume over the weekend we probably would. Would you hit that mark unfortunately? And we had like four more deaths. Wednesday Thursday, and so we're right about three hundred and forty people who've passed on as a result of the corona virus. You know, and that's the sad part of our coverage It's something that we. We share with everyone. That's willing to take notice. It's just a sad situation that's going on, but it's it's real, and it's happening all over the country to you know we. We want to make our people to. To know that they're not. It's not just us. That's experiencing. You know all this trauma and all these heartaches, if everybody. Our numbers are high. You know compared to the rest of the nation. Are Numbers are high and and. There's a reason for that, but there's actually many reasons for that, and it's our job to trying you know share those stories with our people to the best that we can. and there's some good things happening. You know there's people who are really doing some positive things for our nation for people to make sure that they're safe. getting a lot of donations when people all over the world you know throughout the southwest. And it's there, so there's some good things there are taking place you know and you and you're trying to have some balance. You don't want all negative news all the time. That's just you know you wanna have some good news once in awhile. and. We're doing the best we can. Our sports department is still doing well. We got all our young people that are signing scholarship. I mean trying. Yeah. You know signing on to go play ball at the next level We have some real champions that we. We had no issue this past week, so there's a lot of good things still happening. Yeah, that's always a challenge to balance that out. With What is really? Challenging time, what is really you know difficult time in the Navajo nation. Of course has been in the headlines national news mainstream media because of your high covid. Nineteen rates are curious what you think about. The coverage! From a national standpoint, you know it, it's. It's amazing because we don't ever hear from a lot of these major news outlets, it's it's always when we have some kind of a tragedy that takes place of Nelson. They come swarming onto the reservation. They WANNA to get the story. Talk to grandma and GRANDPA and. You know, but you know all the other times when you know before their pandemic. took place. We had a lot of good things happening at home. You know not only us, but other tribes as well, but you don't get that coverage. It takes something bad like this to happen, or or or if you stories associated with gaming casinos. You know that's when they show up so for us. We kinda take we're. We. We look at and say okay. It's for what it's worth it's that's fine, but There's a lot more to live on the reservation a lot more to life. in what we do as a as a nation of people that I wish that they would focus on more often. You know, so. We were try to help out. We've had reporters. Stop by, and we give them advice. We talk about you know where they. They WANNA. Find a certain area where they could go, and then how to be safe. Be Respectful. We make a lot to these areas. Yeah, that's. That's incredibly generous of you. Tom To be able to Provide that for you. Know what we call the parachuters when they come in. And don't know anything about a community and. Forced to cover it, but you know if you want to get the real deal, then read Navajo Times. That's how you can find out what is actually going on and get the accurate coverage. Tom Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Is Through my pleasure Monica thank you and anytime we can help out you know just you. The holler and one of US would be there if not meaning one of our. We'll be right, back. The CDC reports about half of the United States is seeing a new rise in coronavirus infection rates, Arizona Texas Florida and California are all seeing the sharpest increases. Many tribal leaders are keeping strict protection orders, even states around them are opening up. We'll get the updates from tribal leaders on the next native America calling. Support for this program provided the American Indian Higher Education, consortium, the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities, as we learn how to cope during the current pandemic, a heck salutes the many tribal colleges and universities, offering distance learning to keep our communities safe information on a tribal college or university near you at a H. E. C. Dot Org. You're listening to native America calling I'm Monica Brain. An investigation by New Mexico, depth and PROPUBLICA into the policy by loveless hospital, in Albuquerque, raising concerns with public health officials, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid. The policies singled out native. American mothers based on their home zip codes for corona tests. The tests typically take a few days before the results come back and hospital separated, potentially one or more native women from their newborns until the results came in. I spoke with New Mexico in-depth editor Marjorie childress about how they found this story. We had a tipster a clinician who worked at the hospital who? told us that loveless women's Hospital in Albuquerque. was subjecting pregnant native American patients to additional Cova, nineteenth screening not performed Monday of nominative patients. And from there Bryant! I developed several other sources of punishes from inside the hospital. he basically confirm that story. Basically record testing all patients for COVID. Nineteen Albuquerque's other two large hospital de loveless with testing, only a subset of patients who screened for high covid nineteen risk. And the CEO in a memo to staff after our story published explain, the hospital had a shortage of test kits early independent. So instituted screening process. Much of that screening process applied to all patients using a questionnaire and a fever check. But according to the clinicians. That, we spoke to native American patients. He's home. ZIP codes matched troppled ZIP codes. On a list maintained by the hospital, or also deigned to have screened positive regardless of how they screened in terms of fever questionnaire answers making them. What's called a person under investigation for covid nineteen. So in other words. Even native women with no Covid, nineteen symptoms or exposures. Gained low risk in the questionnaire screening. Automatically became suspected covid nineteen cases if they lived in one of the listed trouble areas, and what were the consequences of? That policy. Well patients who screen positive were tested and in the case of pregnant when it also meant that they were isolated away from Labor and delivery section of the hospital. Unlike Albuquerque's editor, two toss bills levels didn't use rapid covid nineteen tests, meaning that test results could take days instead of a couple of hours. If babies were delivered the four months, test results were available. The hospital's policy to separate need ones placing the neo natal intensive care units isolation room. The hospital says in all cases they educate women about a wider newborn should be separated, so they give informed consent. One clinician we talked to agreed that that was the case, but another punishing certain sent mothers were not given that informed consent opportunity. It's unclear to us. How many? Patients and newborns were subjected to this policy and the hospital CEO in a to staff, suggested that only one native American newborn was separated in this manner. Clinicians told us the figure was higher. The don't have a definitive number, but you know the other thing to think about is clinicians and healthcare of since we spoke to the first day, alleged the policy itself amounted to racial profiling, and they raised concerns about the effects of separation of newborns from their mothers immediately after birth clinician said their typical policy is to immediately placed the baby on the motor at birth and leave them there for at least an hour. They said not doing that can reduce the odds of successful breastfeeding later on, they also raised concerns about the effects of patient isolation, saying it delayed care and reduce the ability to pull out services like massage to two women just prior to birth. This is because of the cumbersome personal protective gear. They have to wear when working with patients enter investigation nineteen, so multiple concerns were raised about the effects on on those patients themselves. What women pregnant women and newborns? Maybe to the like the lay person, this might seem like a policy that it could be understood considering the amount of the high rates of cove, nineteen in some native communities What can you share about what the clinician shared with you about why they felt? This policy was wrong first of all CDC. If you go to like CDC, gardens, it's on their website and they say for the purpose of obstruct obstructive. As, suspected covid nineteen cases, someone who has symptoms of Covid nineteen. Or has had a recent high risk contact, and does not have a negative test result, and so the screening policy of loveless was a questionnaire and a fever. Check you know to screening for these things the CDC says also sensitivities may choose test. All patients regardless of sentence are known exposure is part of the universal testing protocol, which is, that's why the other two toss albuquerque or doing all along. It sounds like and then a CDC says explicitly. Explicitly on their website, regardless of pending test results pregnant individuals who are asymptomatic at the time of admission and have no history of high risk contacts should not be considered to be suspected. Cases so love with actually included native Americans as suspected cases They based it on his list. You know level spokesperson wouldn't confirm or deny a detailed description of the policy as we understand it from clinician although we did ask them repeatedly to do. But. She did tell us that the hospital's policy. With the toast, any patient from a designated hotspot region as a person under investigation, and she said that those hotspot regions that they utilize determined by the New Mexico Department health. But the Department of Health does classifies, code areas it's hot spots. Instead a they characterize entire counties as hot spots, and if you look at the ZIP codes on this list, which we have now published in, follow up story to be published this week an image. We found that ten of the ZIP codes on the list are not in those counties and most of the codes have learned numbers of covid nineteen positive cases according to the states, data dashboard. One has zero positive cases, so yes, it's true that in New Mexico. There's a very there are some. Native American communities have really high members of covid nineteen cases, but there are also many native American communities most of them really. Do don't and if you look at the data dashboard of the Department of Health and look at you know they don't have a map for travel tribal communities, but they have a map for coding in counties. You can see each of the ZIP codes. When you can see that you know they they're not. During a lower ranks of ZIP codes more than half of them are are in the lower ranks of the coach. You know in episodes, so we talked to a number of episodes about this policy, and they said it it. It's not good policy. In in one epidemiologist. We talked to said that he should not be targeting people based on. Just where they live coming, you need to really look at high behavior. Have they been in contact with people? versus just a wholesale. If you live in this geographic area, and you know the hospital. You know they we published another document that we received after our first story published our group clinician fewer talking to increase to southern He worked from inside the hospital, and we got a number of documents at one of which we published in our. Follow up story this week and It shows that the early on April twenty second was when the document was out to some of the clinician it described categories of people who should be considered under investigation automatically that included three groups to be considered high risk, dialysis, patients, patients, nursing, and other long term, care facilities and native Americans. Stated that these patients were to be tested in isolated so early on. They had kind of wholesale policy of treating all native Americans. As persons under investigation it. It seems like. That we don't know if they actually ever implemented wholesale policy. Because clinicians, we've spoken to have described as pitiless, noting not only people with addresses within those codes were considered, had screen positive. Essentially I think I think it comes down to think that an entire group of people should be should be considered under investigation. What are you be following up with the story in the future? Well since the story published there's been a state investigation with a report. stay investigators went into love with. Our understanding is they were on site that Saturday that we published. And they concluded I think on Monday. They sent a report to the regulating federal agency, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and our understanding is that that agencies referring the case to the health and human services offices civil rights. We don't know what the findings from that investigation are or what was referred to office of Civil Rights. But I mean we're just you know right now we're. We're continuing to talk to clinicians inside the hospital I. Mean it's kind of a natural part of something like this and were hoping to find out what the investigation found and I think that's GonNa. You know we'll be doing reporting on that and I think that'll take some time to find the results out anytime understanding. Understanding now that the policy has been discontinued, would you like to hear from one of the native mothers who were separated? We do want to hear from them and I know that there are some active efforts to identify them. You know we we. We had to make a decision early on about whether or not. We wanted to hold the story while we sought out. or Go ahead and get it for those because we felt like it really needed to get published and. You know pay patient. Privacy laws preclude clinicians from giving out. That's what information but yes, absolutely I mean if we were able to buy. One of the mothers he was you know A. Place Under this policy would definitely want to follow up with them. That was Marjorie childress from New Mexico depth. Brandt furlough is the reporter on the these series of pieces that she's been talking about, and we'll have links to them on our website. NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com. Now. Let's head off on over to mcdonagh joining us now from Browning. Montana's John. Murray, he's a tribal historic preservation officer for the black feet tribe, welcome back to native America Calling John. Thank you. Appreciate you being on the show. Last time we had you on the show. It was like two thousand sixteen. Win The administration had. Right before the administration had actually cancelled, leases oil and gas leases in the Badger two medicine area, and a lot has changed since then including a few court rulings. Give us some. Give us an overview of what's going on. Okay are I think last time we called the. Were two remaining Lisa's in the Badger two medicine. The original forty seven. And Secretary of Interior. Council the leases and and the oil. Companies. Challenged. Changed the admitted they're complaining. And, challenge the Secretary Interiors Authority to go. To Council that Lisa's and district judge ruled. That because been going on for over thirty years so. You know he's. He reinstated the Lisa's. Consequently, we We had. Filed the. Well actually the interior than defended themselves in United States district. Court of Appeals. But we have an organization which I'm ahead of cult. Bikini Traditional Association and we've had. A, lawsuit way back and so we filed intervene or status and we were able to Our lawyer was able to get three minutes. Of the thirty. Was a lot allocated to the interior. And so we encouraged him in like Gettysburg address was was less than. Three months so anyway, he did really good on. The. Court of Appeals Council, the last two remaining Lisa's. It was like the greatest speech of his lifetime. He's a good lawyer. Famous Tim Pressler their justice. We, we're very happy to have him on our side and. So in the meantime, we followed up We we have. Legislation permanently. Protect the Badger two medicine. As a combination of about three years of. Building relationships in Montana with different organizations. National Congress American Indians Montana Tribal. Leaders Council Montana Wyoming. Tribal leaders. Council endorsed it the blackfoot confederacy. and so we did, is we. We sent that legislation over to. Our Congressional delegation, yesterday. There was a press release on it WE'RE HOPING TO GET THAT LEGISLATION passed July. Everything goes right. Which would permanently protect. Badger two medicine. I WANNA. Talk a little bit more about that, but let's go back a bit So the Obama Administration canceled the these last two. These last two leases there was some leaseholders who voluntarily canceled their own leases on this, which I from what I remember from this circumstance was pretty remarkable to have individuals give up the right to potential profits in that area, but there there's a couple of leases that were still the oil companies were still holding onto them and after the court. Cancelled the cancellation of its. Where did the trump administration stand on that where they continuing to? Uphold the previous administration's decision What can you share about that John? Well, you know the. Under the Obama administration come to Lisa's were canceled. And oil companies had had lawsuit. To move their application to drill into Badger two medicine. With the US District Court in Washington DC. And when when they? Secretary Interior Council. They just amended. Their argument and challenged Interiors Authority. Administration of I forget what that is, but. They challenge the secretary's authority and. And and interior defended themselves. and. And consequently interior You know want actually WANNA case. And and the. Leases were then reinstated. They're not reinstated as of right now. There's a forty five day. Period of two before to execute. And consequently I think. Oil companies have like forty five days to. Petition! To to be hurt again by the same three judges at appeals or they could. appeal to. To all I think there are nineteen judges. Here at on a panel in bunk. Or they could petition for. The. Supreme Court. So, it's not quite over yet. in terms of Badger two medicine area, being completely safe from gas drilling. WanNa talk a little bit more about this John. M At we're about to go to a short break when I hear more about the suit cultural significance of the Badger two medicine area in Montana. If you're just joining us, it's our monthly news roundup. That's where we pick news topics that are relevant to native America and and spend the our chatting with people about them. Journalists reporters things like that. If you've got something you'd like to share, give call. Number is one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's one eight, hundred, nine, nine native. There's other ways to contact us to. You can send us a email to comments at native America Calling Dot Com. WE'RE GONNA go to a short break and we will talk when we get back. Support by Amarin Indian countries one hundred percent tribally owned insurance partner Amarin works with tribal governments and their business enterprises to provide effective commercial insurance coverage strengthen native American communities protect tribal sovereignty and help keep dollars in Indian country more information on property liability, Worker's compensation and commercial auto solutions at Amazon Dot Com. That's a. m. e.. R. I. N. D. DOT COM. You're tuned into native. America calling Monica Brain senior producer and It's our monthly news roundup today. We're talking with John Murray he's tribal historic preservation. For the black feet tribe. John before the break we were talking about these leases, oil and gas leases in a sacred area called the Badger two medicine. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing, tell us about the the cultural significance of this area to the black feet. Okay, you know we are indigenous to this area. We're doing some archaeological work in concert with the. University of Arizona for the last eighteen years and We were doing excavation right on the border of the Badger two medicine. And so we have. We think that's all we're our material. We're down to about thirteen thousand years. And so we have been you know occupying that area for a long time. This But the spiritual Significant Institute the area is. Is Relatively wild, you know. and raising right next to Badger two medicine to the North is glacier national park. And we used to have sacred sites and there. We still have some but. We still have fights there, but there are certain sites that have become unresponsive. and. It's due to their idea of conservation. All their trails. People. Last year at three million people in there. And people just travel all over that area. And consequently We don't want that to happen Badger two medicine. The other thing is that. I guess maybe the loss of our culture. Probably seen the worst years of. You know since we were created. Back in the nineteen sixties, maybe late fifties sixties. In the early seventies or Our culture was. was, being attacked by our own people. A lot of ways because They had a lot of them had turned on her ways. You know have embraced other religions. And we try to study that we. We studied a lot of people like free area. Know Peter McLaren. Dr Kenji Khuda who was working with The Japanese interment camps was probably. A good illustration! They had because they were locked up and they look different different colors skin. they became ashamed of who they were lost their language and culture one generation. Consequently. We started looking. You know like that other people. Internalizing oppressor, and whatever all but anyway. The depth of that loss was during that time, and since then we've had a what we're looking at potentially as. We think it's a lowering of our culture. You know we're starting to see We're starting to see that starting in the seventies. And the nineties and two thousands you know. It just really took off. Renaissance's taking place you know. the young people are all involved in blackfoot knowledge system black ways. The ceremony and spirituality. And we don't know where we are GonNa be you know down roadways? you know like right now we've got. A mountain bikes which we didn't. Anticipate a few years ago. And so we don't know what the future holds We have tried to You know Basically. Figure out a way that we wanted to have permanent protection. So consequently, or we put together. With a group of a lot of people. We Both on and off the reservation. Montana across Montana. We put together by the draft, Legislation Bill and sent that off yesterday to congressional delegation. And what would what would the What would the legislation preserve? Would it turn it into like a national park or would it give the return the land to the Black Feet? Well, it's Um. Neither I guess Excuse me. They nineteen eight, antiquities. act. Allows the president to create money. That's and we were pretty pretty well, you know. Satisfied with that. Secretary Interior Ryan Zinke had proposed the Badger two medicine become a monument. Then shortly after. There was the monument that. Bears, ears grass air case you know they. Were by monument, and then they were reduced. Weren't protected permanently. And so consequently we we thought well. Let's do legislation. Bay and this is going to be like a first of its kind legislation. It'll still be. land by the Fourth Service We will have an over. We'll have a committee over top of that which. The black people will have a voice. We. Have you know we never had a voice? In court. We didn't have. We didn't have an Indian judge. We didn't have any lawyer. We didn't have an Indian Juror. We just didn't have a voice. And consequently district, give us voice and Management of the Badger two medicine because we also ran into the legislation that we could. Through public law, Ninety three six thirty eight contract. Portions or or all of the management of the Badger two medicine. Well John. We are going to keep an eye on this as it unfolds particularly the court cases if there's any issues continuing fighting, trying to get those leases reinstated John Murray. Thank you so much for joining us today. Pleasure, thank you. All right and now. Let's head up to Alaska Alaska has only a little over eight hundred cases of Covid, nineteen and only twelve deaths, but as the state slowly opens back up in the fishing, season gets into full swing. Some are worried about a spike. In new cases, we've been checking in with different places in Alaska to see how they're doing amid the Kohner coronavirus pandemic hurry, brower junior is the mayor of the North Slope Borough of. In Alaska its in northern Alaska. In fact, it's America's farthest North municipal government. It includes coke, vic or The area has a total population of about nine thousand people, and it's only assessable by air. I asked Mayor Brower about the initial steps. His government took to prevent the spread of the virus. I think the just following in track of the communications that was provided to us in terms of on the virus spreads. So in. Conjunction with the communications that was being provided social distancing was the immediate response. Minimizing. in the general public. And shutting down lot of the. Activities that deals with social socializing. The. What came in a few days later was the that use of. Face masks to minimize the spread from oral communications more. Whatever attending meetings? The closure of the public offices across the. Borough in its. Functions. Mentors shutdown the in minimize the. Operations of the borough to a minimal crew to making sure light and. Heat were still functioning all our facilities across the north loop, so they are there many nil things that we had to keep priced up and communicating on, and in making sure we're we our promise to protect our most vulnerable folks across the North Slope, elders which are very, we hold them they're dare to our hearts are elders and the impact in the communications that was being provided. Were they were doing that were being. attacked. By this virus than the middle, east and the young children, the closure of schools was a big significant issue. Then the graduation came i. mean just the time on a daily basis we're learning of. The ramifications of the Kobe Corona virus. Do you have any cases? The hard question to answer because it We had to. Test that came about and gave some indication, they positive indication, and then follow up testing. Negative so it's a difficult to that gets reported, but so far it seems like there's not any cases in the north slope borough knocking on wood. Yes, fraying everyday board. Do we have no cases identified in the notional borough? Have you limited travel to the area? Yes, we were accordance with the governor's. Mandates and minimizing the travel you know seems to Kobe was identified within the first week one of our major areas in villages when file for bankruptcy and assistance who have provided, so we had to commandeer the airport to. Continue the services. We different air carriers, so that was in one of the big situation, but we had to identify with in terms of the results of the covert nineteen. What are the elders sharing with you about their concerns about the situation? From. What's the biggest concern day when? They would read you know. Amount of Cultural Practices that we've adhered to over the many years of their lives. Love. shosha lighting. Spreading communications or early between each other, it's been very difficult for elders. They seem to be the most targeted group of people on the North Slope that we're having the difficulty of trying to protect. You know even though we. Have A. No finding of a case yet I think that's. Something that we learn over to. News Broadcasting occurring in. How do we best manage the? Anxiety that develops from these levels of communications. There's no. vaccine been. Identified to protect people, you know the. Current circumstances of learning over time. It is that we take all these precautionary measures to making sure there's we minimize the Family Interactions We'd be elders. Making sure that travel people that are traveling subject themselves to the conditions that are that have been identified for going to be traveling out of the more slow in return in your in individuals return, they have to adhere to the conditions that have been imposed to monitoring. In testing What was the quarantining themselves for several days until the results come back, these are. Measures that we have to implored to our general public, not just to the employer of the North Slope. Are General. Public is the ones that are most at risk because they're. Free and willing to travel within the conditions in the parameters that have been identified in Ingar through. restrictiveness of the travels in Mandy to within the state that the governor imposed. No, they're going through the reverse, trying to open up their travel. In just continues to play at risk, potential carriers, coming back and forth, and we're trying to minimize that effect to the best of our abilities. That was Harry. Broward junior mayor of the North Slope Borough, of Alaska since I last since I interviewed brower. The Alaska Department of Health and Human Services reports that borough does have four cases of corona virus. Today, we want to highlight podcast project from one of our sister productions. The program indentify is profiling native artists. Here's a sample of one of them. WHO. Hi I'm Selina, host and producer of indigenous by I'm excited to share with you. The release of the native artists podcast from digital by the native artists. PODCAST gives listeners access to establish an emerging native artists as they share their unique stories and perspectives, the mindset behind the art, and how they're navigating these fields while reclaiming native identity. Here's a clip from our conversation with photographer Kilian. The more discovered, there was all these common points between my own culture, and all these other communities, the specifics very different, but the same core thread of how close we are to the natural world, and that relationship that we have because it's relationship based. Fishing off a north coast of Hayek Wi with some a high friends, and then we re catching fish would be joking lot and we'd be talking to. The fish should talking to the seals, and is so much more gift. Economy relationship based kind of idea a lot of all that growing up so that for me that was my way I realize now that I'm kind of looking for getting back my home community despite being forced away from. My parents were forced away by essentially genocide. Check out the full conversation by subscribing to the native artists podcast today available in the apple podcasts, APP or anywhere podcasts are available. Funding provided by the National Endowment for the arts and support by Bristol Bay Corporation find out more at native artists PODCASTS DOT COM. And you can find the indentify native artists audio series wherever you get your podcasts, apple podcasts. Stitcher. I'm trying to think of some of the others that are I tunes any of those? You can look and find podcast. Well we're at the end of the hour. Thank you so much for tuning in to our show today next week. We've got five great shows for you lined up on Monday. We're going to do a covid nineteen in across the country, different tribes see how they're doing. Say if their rates are going up Tuesday is a book of the month show and the title is. Is Help Indians help themselves Wednesday. We're going to look at the Federal Corona Virus Aid, and how tribes are using it? You can sign up for our newsletter at native America Calling Dot, com and every Friday. We'll send you a newsletter with The list of upcoming shows thanks so much to Tom, or viso and John Murray for being on the show today. And our executive producer is art, Hughes or hostess, Tear Gatewood are associated producer Andy Murphy Marino Spencer is the engineer Dave's Moses. Is the Distribution Director Bob? Peterson is the network manager for native voice, one and Clifton Chadwick is a resource development, specialist and Tony Gonzales says the anchor and producer for National Native News Charles say there is our chief of operations. The President and CEO of Broadcast Corporation, is Jacqueline Salih. I'm seeing producer Monica Brain. have good weekend. Stay safe. If you're hurting in your relationship and want to talk strong hearts. Native helpline is a confidential and anonymous domestic violence helpline for native Americans available at one, eight, four, four, seven, six to eighty, four, eighty, three, or connect with alive advocate by using the chat now button at strong hearts helpline dot org advocates offer support and referrals for resources daily seven am to ten. PM Central Time this program supported by the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. Hello sting safe. This summer means staying home social distancing when you have to go out and following all CDC guidelines, contact your local Indian health care provider for more information, visit, healthcare, dot, Gov, or call one, eight, hundred, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six, a message from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Native America calling is produced in the. National Native Voice Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantum. Broadcast Corporation and Native Nonprofit Media Organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the public radio satellite. Service Music is by Brent. Michael Davids native voice one. Native American Radio Network.
Josh Price of Nabors Drilling on Permian Perspective Podcast PP012
"Um. The Permian basin is an abundant oil and gas producing area, already one of the world's leading oil producing regions, the area in west Texas and southeastern New Mexico could nearly double crude oil production by the year, twenty twenty three but who are the leaders behind this economic powerhouse? And what is their story? This is Permian perspective. I'm your host Krista as skinny. Sponsored by Baker Hughes. GE company, inventing smarter ways to bring energy to the world. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of premium perspective. I'm so happy to be sharing this time with all of you. I'm sitting here in Midland Texas this afternoon with Josh price the area manager for neighbors drilling. Thank you so much for being our guest today. Josh grabby. I look forty hearing your story and we'll talk in just a minute. But first, I wanted to thank everyone for leaving this five star reviews in, I tunes, we so appreciate the reviews that we've received so far, and for apple choosing Permian perspective to be on their new and noteworthy list. Thank you so much. Also a special thanks to Christina Lee Wiggins for this five star review. She said the best in the basin. Such an informative entertaining podcast for anyone living in the oil patch and out of the oil. Patch to listen to thank you so much Christina. We appreciate those kind words already. Josh, thank you so much for sitting down with us today. A first of all, tell us how did you get started in the oil and gas industry? I got started thirteen years ago. I've been with neighbors my whole career. I came out of university of Houston, with a political science degree and wondered, what am I going to do with political science degree? So my father had been in the oil business for over thirty years. And he said, well, why don't you go try to get with a drilling contractor? It's a good opportunity, so guy with neighbors and it went well from there. So been with them ever since antastic him when you were getting this degree in political science. What were you thinking at the time like where was the direction you're I was always interested in politics? And I actually in my senior year, I intern for a political campaign, and that's when I knew that, that's not what I wanted to do so change from that, and that's great advice, I always tell anyone to intern somewhere. See if you even like it. Yeah. It was, I loved politics. But that that's when it changed for me. Well, good for you. Dad gave some great advice on. You then went to this company. Tell us a little bit about what the next step was. So I started with neighbours I went into their management training program and the first thing they told me to do is go to the North Slope in Alaska and work on the rigs for a little while. So I went to the North Slope in Alaska for about a year and I- rotated every two weeks on and off my two weeks off in Houston. I wasn't at home. I was in the office and doing different work in the office. Then I two weeks later, I'd go back to the North Slope. So got me, a good ground up view of the, of the business, and it was the best experience. I've had I, I truly recommend anybody who's gonna start in this business to really get ground up view, and see what the what the men and women in the field do every day. Because because they're the ones that make things happen. Absolutely. And then you're hooked after that. Yeah. I love it. I love tell us how you got here to the Permian basin. It was a roundabout way. So after I did my stint in Alaska, they asked me to go to the. National division. So I went over to the international division. My first overseas assignment was in Bolivia. I spent about six months down there, winding that operation down. And then after that, I got moved to Brunei in southeast Asia, my wife, and I lived there for about two years. We had a contract there with with shell got to travel all over south East Asia. And then after that, when that finished went to Romania for a little bit did a little bit of work in Romania, and then I moved to casick's thin, I was the area manager in Kazakhstan for about three and a half years. So I lived in Almaty Aktau, an Avro, and those are the three main cities in Kazakhstan where the all businesses there, did three and a half years there after that went to Columbia. I was a project manager in Columbia, when we took eight rigs in four new rigs and four refurbish rigs took those in there for echo patrol after that. I moved to Dubai. And at by this time we had two kids, so the. Grew up in Dubai. We were there for about four years. And at the time when I went to buy, I was looking after our operations in Kuwait Qatar, the, the former Soviet Union's Russia and casick's STAN, as well as Romanian west Africa. Wow, you are really world traveler. Yeah. We, we spent eleven years overseas. You know, that's why I love the so much. I got to I got to travel to over thirty different countries as, as part of that and used up my passport quite a bit. And it has been it's just been great. I've loved it. And after by went to Houston. I was a manage our projects global projects for, for a while partly out of Dubai, and into Houston. And we were in Houston from June of two thousand fourteen and then just a little over a year ago. They asked me to come out to the permit and manage our business here and thought it was a great idea. So we came up, we've always been willing to go wherever I it sounds like it, and you're really bringing that experience from all over, tell me, what are some of the similarities and differences. You see from. All of your travels across the world to here in the basin. So good question. And because there's a lot of similarities. I mean a rig is a rig whether you're in Saudi Arabia or the Congo or the permanent rig so really in your drill your Joan Welles, and while each well is is unique and different the fundamentals are still the same the differences are in international. It's I don't want to say more challenging, but there's is more unique. I think in, in the case that each country, you work in has different challenges from government regulations to local content requirements to supply chain trying to get parts in and out where here, it's quite easy to get parts. Even though you know, in the Permian right now there can be bottlenecks, but it's you're not waiting weeks to get it. Right. So you now are here in the Permian bring that wealth of knowledge. What is your plan for the next twelve months for neighbors? And first of all, tell everyone, what neighbors does so neighbors we have drilling. Contractor or the, I think the best in class drilling contractor out here, we operate forty rigs right now in the Permian, and we also offer a suite of other services besides drilling. We have directional tools. We have software packages for the rigs casing running services. So neighbors has been out in the Permian for a long time. This is a great business for us out here, and we're excited to be here for the long-term, antastic activity, the next twelve months, where do you see it going? And where do you see neighbors playing a role in it? You know, I, I wish I had a crystal ball to say where I thought it would go, but I, I mean from my perspective. My personal perspective is and talking to most of our customers out here I feel like the next twelve months will be good. There is a dip right now and we're all kind of living through that and managing that. But from the customers, we have that we've talked to that they don't they don't seem like they're going to be slowing down too much. So I, I see the next twelve months as positive and we're looking forward to over the years. You've seen the ups and downs of oil and gas business. How have you managed that with your team, it's been tough? You know, when I first got to casick's, Dan, I got to Kazakhstan in August of two thousand eight and we had what we have six rigs running at the time. And if you remember in October of two thousand eight is kind of when the market fell and we went down to by the end of the year. We're two ridge. So it was very tough. We lost a lot of good people. But the market came back eventually and then just in two thousand fourteen also we went through that again. And it's it's always hard to make those tough decisions. But we get through it, and we, we keep going, of course, then you went through the growth of two thousand twelve. Yes. What do you think is the biggest challenge, or is the biggest challenge when you are in a growth pattern for us? I have to say, people just restaffing and because a lot of times, anytime you go through downturn and you come back up. There's, there's a lot of experience that you lose that are coming back into the industry. And so it's, it's. Finding the, the new the new hires and trading them the right way in my experience has always been the most difficult thing to do. What do you like best so far about the Permian basin? The work is great. The people are great. I love the people out here. I grew up in Edmond Oklahoma, which is a similar sized town and reminds me a lot of that. So Edmund was kind of a an oil and gas town as well. And it reminds me of the people there. So the, the people here are great and the dust storms, and the tornadoes course, ruin feels like home, right? Tell me what have you learned the most through the years that you will be applying here in the Permian basin. Really to me, it goes back to people because everything we do is, is people based, I think neighbors has the best rigs out there, but we got to have the right people. So it's really taken the experience. We've got to develop our people and train, our people, the right way to deliver our, our service to our customers, the right way, the way we want to do it. So it's really about training and development and bring in the new people in and doing it the right way. Do you have a business toll that has helped you the most or that you utilize with your team members not necessarily a business tool? But I come from a project management background. So, so I look at a lot of things from a project management perspective. So very organized. Very you know, you get a plan you execute that plan, you monitor it, and then you, you close it out, and you get lessons learned. It's a continuous improvement cycle. But the way I've always looked at it is from a kind of a project manage, respective any, it doesn't have to be a massive capital project. It can just be an initiative, or something that you really look at through the project limbs, tell me social media has really grown and we all have to use it. Dan? How do you utilize the social media to your advantage? How do you how, how does that help you with neighbors? We here, at least in our operation out here we have superintendents, we have operations managers. We have our rig manager's at the rigs and each group will we'll have one big like what's at account that will all kind of communicate with each other. And then each separate group, so each superintendent will have his rigs, they'll have their own text account or text string that they'll all communicate with each other, and it didn't used to be like that it used to be where you had to just do Email or each rig is calling each other or their each rig is an island and they're not communicating. But. Communicating on the, you know, like a WhatsApp or something like that has really helped us because it helps us share learnings in share experiences. That's great. I've heard really things about what's up. And I think it's a fantastic way to connect everyone now on the other spectrum. How do you keep your team members off of maybe social media and Facebook when they should be working? Well, on the rigs, we don't allow phones. So when they go on tower they got to keep their phone in the in the trailer, so they shouldn't have phones out there in the rig manager's. They've they've got so much going on every day. I don't think they get a chance to even look at their phone usually. So we haven't had that much problem with, with people over using social media. I haven't seen that in my experience. That's good. I mean that really is. And I asking from a business standpoint and from parents, Tampa. How do we manage this this phone? We still have some people that wouldn't even know what what's app is. So it's, it's, it's no, we haven't seen much issue with it. That's great. It's actually been a good tool for us a rather than a hindrance. I love that. Let's talk a little bit about motivation. I think motivating team members and employs. It's different for everyone. How do you motivate yours I let them do their job? I try not to, I try not to micromanage them. I try to let them manage their teams and do their work and make mistakes, and coach them when they make mistakes, but I think it's important for people to make mistakes and fails them times. And because that's how you learn. So what I try to do is I try to let them do their job and watch him. But, but I definitely don't try to micromanage. I think that's a, that's a very de motivating thing to have somebody looking over your shoulder all the time. Absolutely. How about books are podcast. You have any that you listen to all the time, sorry to say, I don't listen to pod. Cast. But I, I will start I will certainly start I love to read, and I was a major political science. I minored in history, and I love history. I read history all the time as a matter of fact, I am reading a reading autobiography nano of historical biography of every US president right now. And I'm on on Ulysses s grant, which if I'm not mistaken was number seven, no eighteen was eighteenth US president. So I've got quite a few to go, and this is a it'll probably take me about five years to get it done. But I'm I'm going to move through it, but I love I love that. It's a, that's what I like to do a lot farther than I am. So that's fantastic. And what is it that you love about reading history books? What is it that just keeps you coming back, you know, because most of the history books, I read it is from past history when I say pasture Serie couple at one hundred years ago and, and a lot of respects they dealt with the same issues we dealt with. You know, like, for example, reading, I'm reading about Ulysses grant right now. So he was during the civil war era. The antebellum in the in the post civil war era, and at that time they were just starting telegraphs. So it's not too dissimilar to what we do now with the internet and social media. This was telegraphs were so new to them, it used to be you'd write a letter and send it and somebody got it and maybe a month or two, and, and then telegraphs was the first time there was almost instant communication. So there's, there's a lot of parallels between men and now and if you if you read about it, you can really see what how they dealt with it, and see if that's applicable to that, the telegraph was, like, what's up? How about quotes? Do you have a favorite quote that you live by I do have favorite quote? It's when you get to the end of the rope tie. Hang on. That was that was FDR World War Two I love that. You can tell your history buff. That's fantastic. Let's talk about what you look for, in hiring employees because I think a lot of people are moving here to the basin. Looking for the opportunity. What is it, you're looking for attitude? I think attitude is you can again. I said before we want to train, and develop our people, we can we can train, we develop we can, we can give the expectation in the standard, but you have to have the right attitude, and that's a personal decision is having the right attitude. So I look for attitude, do they want to do they do they want to be part of a team. Do they wanna be part of an organization that that's going to develop them? And if they have that, right. Attitude than than you, can you can you can make a hand out of and. I know you said, you've been with neighbors since the beginning, what advice, would you give to someone that maybe as thinking of starting in oil and gas business or just getting their foot in the door right now because of all the opportunities again, what I would say is don't try to just get in the office right away. I would say get out the field. Really? Get a good sense of the business from the ground up and again, because the the, the guys the men and women who do the work out the field. They're the ones that truly bring in the value and you have to you have to put yourself in their shoes for a little while get out and work and have a positive attitude, and you're good to great industry to be. I mean, there's so much opportunity in this industry. And I think it's a great industry. I'm glad on part of what do you want your legacy to be in this industry? Oh, I don't know. I've never thought about that. I've still got away to go. You're young young. And, but I can say what I would like to if I eventually leave the permeating and move on somewhere else. What I what I. I've always wanted to do. I wanna make for neighbors in particular. I wanna make the Permian the place where people want to come work. I want them to say you know what I want to go and be part of that. So that's something we're trying to build out here. If you're pitching someone across the world right now, what would you say to them? Why would you tell them that they need to come work here? This is the place to be. There's no other area. There's no other region in the world and gas business. That, that that is so booming right now. I mean, this, this is the place to be. International. There's there's pockets of a lot of activity. But, but as far as activity this, this is where it's at, and there's a lot of good people out here and a lot of opportunity. Let's talk about your journey. I know you've had a really how do I explain this? I mean just your experience, just your worldly experience really in your journey has taken you all over the world. What would you say to someone on a similar journey that could maybe just give them a little bit hope? Because they're thinking frustrated, I'm you know, maybe not where I wanna be right now. Yeah. I would say and I said it before is I've always been willing to go wherever, and don't just because maybe they ask you to go somewhere that you might not wanna go don't pass up the opportunity because there's always opportunity in any any a new job. So I would say, be open and really think about it before you say, no just, you know, it's, it's always a new experience. New experiences are always fun. So take take the experience and the Permian basin is a great place to be. What's your favorite thing about it so far from a non work standpoint? The people have great. I mean we we've gotten to a great neighborhood. We really good neighbors kids got a lot of friends, and it's just a friendly place to be I can't say, I'm, I'm from Houston, and I, you know, the traffic there is horrible traffic. Here's pretty bad, too. So nothing like Houston though, right? It's getting there, though the only the only thing I would ask you is more fishing spots. But I don't think anybody can do anything for that or I've been looking for water for a while. Here we need more water. Is there anything that you when you knew that you were going to be interviewed, and sit down with me during this podcast that you really wanted to get out that maybe we haven't touched on yet? No, I don't think so, you know, just the permanent is, it's a great place to be. I know a lot of people are hesitant when they hear west Texas, but really are great people, there's a lot of things to do out here. And again, there's a lot of opportunity. So I urge people to, you know, recommend people to come out here. Thank you. We appreciate you sharing about your experience your journey and a little bit more about neighbors, and we wish you much success, you already doing great. So I know that it's just gonna keep on going for you. So thank you so much for sharing how can people find you on social media? I don't have social just talking about this. Like I don't do Facebook, I mart. How would they find neighbors? Neighbors. They can find neighbors on social media on linked in and Facebook. Good for you. Staying off there does. And that's why you read so many books. Thank you so much, Josh for your pre shit. You spending this time with us today, and it's been fun getting to know you better knowing your journey. So thank you so much. It's time now for today's community MVP and today's community MVP is a no-brainer and it's easy sheriff, Gary painter longtime Midland county sheriff painter passed away at his home. Painter enlisted in the United States Marine corps in nineteen sixty six and served two towers of duty in Vietnam. He was true legend, and served our community for over thirty three years, it was a pleasure to have known him as he had a love for his family community and country sheriff painters. And of watch may twenty six twenty nineteen we thank you for your service sheriff painter. We'd also like to thank our sponsor Baker Hughes. GE company, inventing smarter ways to bring energy to the world. Of course. Our guest today with neighbors drilling. We appreciate you Josh for spending this time with us, and all of you listeners, thank you so much for being here. That, concludes this episode of Permian perspective, the story behind the oil and gas leaders in the Permian basin, just remember dream big and believe in yourself. You make it a great day. Julie here. And I have a few in announcements before heading into the events on deck street team. We are still taking volunteers for street. Team were only asking for an hour of your time per week in exchange for perks such as free entries were happy hours shirts networking with other young professionals in our group, the group is within Facebook, but you do not have to have a Facebook to join to send me an Email, the link will be in the show notes, and I can get you started. Our happy hours. We are actually moving to quarterly happy hours, rather than monthly so our next Houston happy hour, as well as MS Lynne, will be in August or September beyond the lookout, the date, you'll get invite if you're on the list, if not, you can sign up on the list below. And then we are watching a nother happy hour in Denver in August. So if you're interested in that one, the link is in the show notes as well to be notified. We don't have a date or details for that yet, but they're coming up. Okay. Now onto the events on debt, we have golf for good. On June eleven twenty nineteen in Houston, Texas, all proceeds go to help redeemed ministries with our long term recovery program in safehouse to help victims of human trafficking become survivors. So Mark your calendars and be ready to golfer. Good with redeemed in our organizers global SEM energy and read him. For more information on how to sponsor registered. Just click the link in the show notes data driven drilling in production conference is June eleven through twelve in Houston, Texas. This is where Silicon Valley meets oil and gas. Register at the link in our show notes below the energy and data conference is June seventeenth through nineteenth in Austin, Texas, this four looking conference will include the latest in digital transformation trends, as they relate to the energy. Sector's with topics such as machine learning and data management storage oil and gas development, drilling production in more leap down below energy exposition is June. Twenty six twenty seven in Gillette, Wyoming. The energy exposition is for those who would like to know more about procedures technology safety, environmental practices and quit us in the oil and gas industry. And again, the link is in our show notes Argentina oil and gas in energy summit, twenty nineteen is on July tenth and eleventh in Buenos Aires. This summit, actually, the first and only official event for the Argentinian oil and gas in energy industries. It will present a unique platform for networking that will bring together existing in future. Operators. In the oil and gas industry in Argentina and Latin America next up is the twenty nineteen IP, A, N, M annual meeting that Mark Jake and page will actually be speaking at this will be July twenty four twenty six in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And this year's theme is addressing operator needs in twenty nineteen and next up is desk in Derek, Fort Worth, second annual shoot for the future Klay shoe, this Klay shoot will be on July twenty six and Decatur Texas. And then a last, but not least summer Nate. This is going to be August twenty first and twenty second to where the deals happen. Tune in next week for another episode of Permian perspective it production of the oil and gas global network. Learn more at WWW dot ORG G, N dot com.
Ep. 22: Horned Toads, Bobcats, and Elk, Oh My!
"For Meters World News headquarters in Bozeman Montana this is kells weaken review with Ryan Cow. Now here's cal the California. The legislature has passed two different pieces of legislation to further curve and regulate hunting. We covered the first one. Ab Two seven three which will abolish all further. You're trapping just in the state of California in an article on the meter dot Com but second one. I feel inclined to discuss here. Ab One two four five which we'll place a moratorium on all Bob cat hunting until twenty twenty five five years down the road the California Department of fish and wildlife could potentially reopen the season after after completing a new management plan opponents of the bill alleged that this is really just a hunting ban cloaked in full sheepskin creating a new management plan will cost roughly two and a half million money. They say the legislature won't allocate when the time comes in which case Bob cat hunting would remain permanently closed advocates for the bill claim that the bobcat hunting in the state is unnecessary in purely about killing trophy animals for sport bobcat. Hunting bands have been popping up all over the country in recent years. A proposed ban in Colorado failed to pass this spring but we're likely to see that one come up again the issue with these bands isn't so much about the importance or popularity of hunting Bob Catholic ask but rather the lack of understanding of our model of conservation. That's baked into this kind of rulemaking like it or not. North American conservation as intimately tied hunting fishing and trapping on a practical level these activities provide the lion's share of money for Land and Habitat Management Acquisition those tags and licenses we buy they fund the agencies that oversee all our wildlife sportsmen and women generously support nonprofit organizations that do great things for our wildlife and the places as they live beyond that the people really working in advocating for wildlife species are the people with the most direct and intimate relationships to those animals that would be us. The hunters enters anglers and trappers regardless of your personal opinion on hunting. It's difficult to argue the effectiveness of American game management practices as those are deeply. Lee tied to hunting and hunters us take Bob cats as a case study for much of this country's history. Bob Gates retreated as a nuisance species nearly went an extinct since the one thousand nine hundred seventies as a direct result of her model of conservation. Their numbers have recovered there are now believed to be over three million. Bob Gates in us the the population is doing well banning limited Bob Cat Huntington that we currently have won't help increase that population even the advocates of this ban admit at that fact hunters aren't killing so many cats that were impacting the species often when we see legislation like this is because people promote focusing saying on an individual not species. That's not how wildlife management works what it will do however is take away one more revenue opportunity to fund wildlife if management and alienate one more group of folks who want to spend time in the woods if California really wanted to do something great for Bob Cats they dramatically increase the price of tags eggs which are currently way too low at less than four bucks and use that money to protect critical habitat. It's a hard argument to wrap our heads around but hunters shooting individual individual animals aren't hurting bob cats as a population land development kills a lot more animals than hunters especially in California. I encourage everyone to read up and better understand North American model of conservation so we can address these arguments as they continue to pop up which they will also. Let's get that damn wildlife overpass over the one. Oh one for the record. I'm not bashing California's state. y'All have a lot to beautiful and people in fact my one issue. Is that the people there are just a little too attractive little put together if you will. I'm more of our rode hard. Put Away wet kind of guy. I'm a fan of things with scars and stories things you know taken hakin some beatings but still keep getting after good time to remind you that cows week in review is powered by steel power equipment. My battery powered steel chainsaw looks like mad the tumbled down the side of a mountain but it still works just as well as the day. I got which is more than I can say for some other things I know have actually fallen off the side of a mountain but I'll get to that later later this week we're covering recovery of New York. City's Wales Vikings Hunting walruses michiganders and Moose and so much more but first let me tell you about my we as I told you last week in episode twenty one I stumbled into an amazing opportunity to hunt elk in New Mexico state. I love actually sitting in a real live. New Mexicans askins living room recording this in Dattel New Mexico. You know dattel. It's right next to pie town. New Mexico is the only state I've heard of that opted to name a town through a TV show contest. You've probably heard of truth or consequences. New Mexico well it used to be called hot springs then along came Bob Barker and I'm just not going to get into that because I've got a ton to tell you about from this adventure the high highs and low lows of of elk hunting while surrounded by the state of enchantment which is the New Mexico state motto which is Amazing Quick. Example of high is calling in an incredibly large bull watching him drop off one mountain cross. A creek bed climbed the mountain on a direct line to me then a larger unseen bowl comes out of the timber cutting him off the to bowl square off smashing antlers. The interloper from the opposite hillside spins the larger bowl in an incredibly athletic football football. Ask Move. Maybe all Najji Harris. If you're Obama fan the ball continues up the mountain at full speed only to slow to a quiet cat lake the pace as he hunts out the source of the cow call in the high sparse new Mexican timber eventually stopping perfectly broadside slightly out of breath at twenty yards the only thing between himself and myself a few tangled weather whipped branches just enough to prevent any ethical shop no paths half from Iro at this point you can breathe again and actually study the amazing beautiful powerful animal in front of you. Watch him decipher his own set of clues news. See the wheels turn as he figures out that he's been duped. Maybe or mistaken maybe he comes to the conclusion that there were no cows looking for love on that mountainside inside lows come with the highs and get into the real details and upcoming article on the mediator. Dot Com an Arrow released neil time torrential monsoon mid afternoon nap on a spider nast a bloodless blood trail feeling the gears in my own own head spin as I decipher the clues in front of me. I love elk hunting. I also love what I describe as bycatch things I find outside of my primary. Corey one find a New Mexico. I always look forward to is the horned toad there are fourteen species of horned lizards all belonging to the Family Iguana Day seven of which can be found in the American southwest but the horned wizards can be found from British Columbia to Guatemala aside from their spines which can be soft or hard enough to actually ruptured the throat of a snake. The horned toad is known for its ability to change colors to match its surroundings and their ability to shoot blood from there is as a defense mechanism which they don't actually do U. Unless they are incredibly stressed out so you know it's a bad thing if you can watch one they'll shuffle themselves into the sand or dirt until only their heads and maybe a spiner to you from their backs or exposed the almost exclusively aunt typically seventy one hundred per day as you can imagine answer incredibly hard to digest so their stomach actually takes up thirteen percent of their entire body lot of indigestible matter so don't try and take them home no matter how many ants you think you have on hand. This species is a character as they try like hell to get away once. Kat seem resigned to sit in your hand. Fate will take care of them and yes. The horned toad is actually horned lizard. Not a toad owed. You Mexico is home to the Texas Horned Lizard the mountain shorthorn and the round tailed horned lizard the Texas Horned Lizard does not carry a sidearm at all times but it does does have the ability to catch rainwater with its back and shoot blood from its is as far as four feet both the Texas horned wizard and around tailed horned lizard lay eggs while interestingly interestingly enough the mountain shorthorn Lizard gives birth to live young anyway. It's really cool stuff and just another example of things you find with a great elk tag in your pocket as an excuse news one more fun fact for you before we get into the serious stuff. I did a lot of hunting while overlooking the La the LA is an acronym stands for very large array which is a series of twenty seven independent radio telescope antennas each of which has a dish diameter of eighty two feet and weighs two hundred thirty tonnes John's the antennas are shaped and a y configuration each arm being thirteen miles long as you can imagine the setup brings in a lot of information which I'm told is is primarily used by astronomers to study the stars and told by some probably tracked down those aliens that end up in area fifty one better get your running shoes on anyway moving on and backing up last week. We touched on how the clean water act is about stripped down allowing for more pollution and habitat hat destruction across America. If you need any further convincing that this is a bad idea and let me tell you about a whale of a story out of New York City literally in recent years scientists intas and tourists alike have been pleasantly surprised by the growing number of whale pods in the New York Harbor Twenty years ago. A humpback within eyesight of the city was an unimaginable scene. Even though the area is part of their native range who would blame the whales for abandoning the Big Apple Though as National Geographic put in a recent article quote the waters around New York City where some of the most polluted in the world a toxic stew of chemicals and garbage thanks to a successful environmental policy such as the Endangered Species Act Marine Mammal Protection Act and Clean Water Act. The whales have return when pollution levels started to fall zooplankton started to rise as zooplankton populations took off so did men Hayden an oily schooling fish that Wales Gorge on in less than a decade the whale population has increased by get ready seven thousand five hundred and forty percent from five Wales in two thousand eleven to three hundred seventy seven Wales in two two thousand nineteen. It's a positive trend but these Wales need all the help they can get ship strikes and fishing gear entanglement in the New York harbor are enormous threats is to these enormous creatures and any repeals the clean water act threatens to negate their amazing progress this your regular reminder to call a congressman or woman common today and tell them to get their heads straight on the clean water act moving on but sticking with big marine critters researchers have known for years. Here's that walruses once called Iceland home the large tusked creatures disappeared from the island about seven hundred years ago and until recently it was assumed that the walruses fled fled the area shortly after human showed up a behavior typical of marine life and the North Atlantic in this hypothesis the cows and calves would have been the first to leave finding refuge with fellow walruses that lived on Greenland bowls would have followed soon thereafter with the Icelandic group contributing to the large genetic community that exists among modern modern day walruses how ever fresh research suggests that walruses didn't migrate off the island but instead we're extirpated by Vikings. That's a fancy word for killed by Vikings. The smoking gun that supports this theory is carbon dated walrus bones in new genetic data the carbon dated bone show that the walruses disappeared shortly shortly after Vikings arrived and the new genetic data doesn't match that of walruses found anywhere else in the world. Why did the vikings wage war on these giant slow creatures creatures for their ivory of course medieval hunting accounts note that Walrus ivory was a valuable commodity at the time and that ivory trade was a popular practice by Vikings. This is is one of the earliest examples of commercially driven over exploitation and is a good reminder of how delicate our marine resources are vikings were able to eradicate an an entire species off of a forty thousand square mile island and did so without the help of guns motorized ships. GPS Big fishing nets ads or any other modern day and binion's. I want you to think of that the next time somebody tells you that folks are trying to eradicate species typically right now with all the technology. Collagen hand. It'd be pretty darn easy. We put our minds to on the subject of humans wiping out species. Let me tell you about the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska which is home home to millions of birds and tens of thousands of Caribou for clarity. The National Petroleum Reserve has absolutely nothing to do with the Strategic Petroleum Reserve which is the big store of oil that our government has stockpiled in case of emergency despite its confusing and I might argue poorly chosen name the national petroleum reserve or NPR for short is actually the largest chunk of public around the United States twenty two million acres. It's on Alaska's north slope just to the west of another huge block of public land the Arctic Addict National Wildlife Refuge or Anwar Handwork gets a lot of press but its larger neighbor goes mostly unmentioned president harding established the NPR back in nineteen twenty three after native tribes showed Yankee sailors rock rude bubbling up from the ground kind of like a far north version of the JED Clampett story Black Gold Texas tea. That's a beverly hillbillies referenced in case you missed it anyway back in the early twenties or naval fleet was just switching from coal to oil power the NPR was originally named Naval Petroleum Reserve number four as it was one of four sites around the country that held contingency fuel. You'll reserves for the navy the NPR got renamed in Nineteen seventy six when Congress passed the Naval Reserves Petroleum Act and ownership of the land transferred from the Navy to the bureau zero of land management the following year the BLM set aside three sections of the reserve as critical habitat for wildlife specifically migratory birds in care one of those sections near boy. I'M GONNA screw this up till checkbook. Lake is now slated for potential development. We're talking about huge expanse of wetlands that makes for prime breeding the habitat for shore birds waterfowl owls and other ground nesting birds think of Fort Lauderdale spring break for birds more than six million shore birds descend on on Alaska's north slope from all over the globe every summer just party birds like the bar tailed godwit that make a seven thousand miles non on stop migration from New Zealand the longest in the world and like those hormone fuelled college kids. There's a reason these birds go through all the trouble to travel so far from I'm home to get away from prying eyes so to speak only in the case of the birds. They're not trying to avoid parents. Campus cops are academic deans. They're trying to avoid predators. Particularly Fox's oxes that abaquin taste for bird eggs the current administration is trying to change the rules for development in this area and open up more of it to oil drilling and transportation in the form of roads. It didn't pipelines oil development in this area will disturb this massive avian orgy in the same roads that carry in trucks and equipment will also give predators away in allowing them to plow through all the easy protein sitting in those ground nests this matters because shorebridge populations aren't doing so well in general nearly sixty percent of North American species you she's and fifty percent worldwide are in long term decline much of the issues that these birds are facing are on the other end of their long migration routes but up here. They still have a safe. They've placed to get busy and raise their young. If we take away this last safe haven we won't be doing them any favors. Then there's the fifty eight thousand Caribou in the puck heard that live in this area year round and are a stable of subsistence hunters Caribou tend to avoid development and humans in general sense. You know those hunters harvest around four thousand of them per year so no one's really sure how development might impact this heard in fact no one's totally sure how proposed development might impact the birds either there and that's really the main point. I get in for oil and dependence that this particular place Taboada of it but we've had rules and restrictions for development of this incredible untouched the landscape for several generations now and they've worked out pretty well earlier this year a coalition of five conservation groups in the local native village of I'm going to call it knocks neck set We'll have to print this online and you I Q S. Ut took him to court claiming that all the exploratory development they've been doing around the NPR drilling test. Wells and building ice roads was done without the proper unnecessary environmental studies. If that's any indication of how the broader project is going to happen. It seems like cause for concern before we go messing up something. That's working pretty darn well. We should take the time to figure out what those impacts will be to borrow a different land and using allergy. You don't start a controlled burn without first being dam sure about the control otherwise you're just setting stuff on fire and finally speaking a Caribou they are part of one of North America's largest science experiments higher royale which is a two hundred seven square mile island in Lake Superior some you may remember member from way back on episode two of Cowes Week in review. It's owned by the State of Michigan. Even though it's closer to Minnesota and Canada you may recall meters coverage of the island in episode one seventy two of the PODCAST Steve Yana Spencer Neuharth and Pat Durkin discussed the island shrieking wolf population on AOL native Caribou were were extirpated in the nineteen twenties to replace the big deer humans brought in an even bigger deer Moose. The island's moves population is the highest. It's been in twenty years which is likely because the islands wolf population is the lowest. It's been in one hundred years to see how the increasing number of Moose Affect. IRL's vegetation researchers conducted acted feces analysis of the news for closer look at their diet. What they learned is that Moose are damn picky eaters when conditions are favourable and predation and snow are in a factor moose will eat the rarest of rare plants available. This means that if Balsam fir is rare in their home range. They'll selectively eat it but if it's the most common implant around they'll opt for something else. Biologists aren't sure if the IRL Moose are just fancy eaters or if they biologically favor a balanced diet the study suggests yes that it's the ladder and I can agree with that I to try to have a balanced diet. You know like little elk with my Walleye and Turkey with my white tail. Are That's all I've got free. This week Dell's some friends if you want more cows week in review Leamy Review by hitting that furthest right hand star and subscribe. Let me know how I'm doin at ask cow at the mediator DOT com. That's S. K. C. A. L. at the MEAT EATER DOT com. I'll talk to you next week talk to.
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Out There in the Dark
"I've got a phone call something's wrong with brandy. She's not moving Lina she was a in my driveway and her head waddy barrier little girl and then it's a murder Josh was still in Alaska and then there was a new man in her life anybody think how do you put all that time together molly came back then Hinchey into question wasn't just who murdered a young mother it and this is dateline here's Dennis Murphy with out there Zidane's Ville in eastern Ohio is the kind of not too big not too small city where you can to her daughter waiting to be tucked in at brandies mom's house out in the country where she'd been on this night her fiance talking her home just talking to her she's driving here's one day brandy walked into Craig Salon we hit it off women are very got to be a fine girl for Craig and that right away mutual attraction grew into something very yeah yeah count brandies mom Molly Edwards among the many people so he put her first growing life portraits she took every our class there was if it had anything students she'd met not too long after she had news from she called me up by you couldn't ask for a better mother if it was something that she needed everything good the marriage after nine as she was driving home from work with Theon Save Craig in her ear he heard Brandy Hi texture bill what's up about ten minutes pass by and would brandies kid sister tests headed up the almost half mile long dry from and she says I see your car or highlights wrong it's not moving head slumped down and then she call my sister is my driveway and her head bloody and she's Craig was on his way to there was his girlfriend's little Nissan Century in the drive and I said what's wrong he goes I think she's been shot nothing can prepare you for that bridge ahead into the abyss blew me out of the water brandies the truck desa something's wrong with brandy beget home so emergency vehicles in first gear and brandy inside looking ragged on shot three times maybe not this time when we return Josh was in fact still serious look at it was may fifth two thousand fourteen the car was at the head of the driveway lights in the first minutes of what would be a years long investigation and like I arrived at crime scene techs would later recovered three shell casings and a clip for a semi automatic as the CFC's took their photos and estimated bullet trajectories gathered blood and just watching it measure girl gone I raised my baby and I can't turn in the car who would benefit from a single moms death of course am and an obsessive weightlifter when you rent them through the computer would you find out about but there was a problem a big one there was every reason to believe he wasn't in the driveway Josh was in fact still in Alaska that night so that's a pretty good alibi guess idea to eliminate the husband as a suspect in get-go detective knock her grief or anything like that but nothing you can hang your hat on either one of the questions bill as soon as he could but there was another person much closer that the cops had to figure and your victim right yes so he's a person of interest until he's not I'm guessing with asking you hard questions where have you been what are you doing did you think wow they think I'm a suspect that morning then the legwork of the investigation began in earnest starting eh devoted mother in a marriage that she really wanted to get out of patrol images and show up anywhere now when the lab results came back disappointment only just begun a few days after the murder brandies husband Josh returned to Zanesville we know you can look him in the eye and you can check out his demeanor what are you seeing Josh was very cool and buried their brand but no one was coming to terms with the magnitude of this crime off a new suspect but he has an alibi surgeries on it when dateline continues brandy the young mom found shot to death in the front seat of her car in the family driveway for sure that he was cleared but Craig wasn't a total debt the fiancee first name serious serious e Underwood when they ran the name Bob with a local manufacturer and seemed to charm every woman he met Dan download it he agreed to do that how do you present himself come he claimed Salmond his cell serious explain how he knew brandies husband Josh together shop in Alaska Serious said they hadn't been in contact for a while was the last time I believe Randy died to McGovern's house does list of people to talk when do you mother of five said she met serious a couple happy always smiling the midlife single mom back to college so that we could go to different events in the community as well as giving tours own even featured in brochures about the College Wendy liked almost everything about him amazing so awesome we took motorcycle rides and went on Picnics Uh Detective Ryan asked about the night of the murder the timeline they were building a brand's murder and did they speak to serious as whereabouts Arrive Wendy said after that eleven o'clock text serious had given the cops this crime yes and there was another thing the squad's phone expert filled them in about some internet was murdered question was serious the gunman in brandies Driveli he seemed a lot of text messages do serious underwood series Underwood was by why indeed the story told by the phones that concealed relationship fed able to them as DNA or bloody fingerprints. The first big question did and I'm not exaggerating thousands upon thousands upon thousands of phone calls that all these various towers the three one zero area code normally that southern California the county to get the call records for the three ten area phone and right time right place had called Josh's phone in Alaska then the phone texted from this California area code hey what's up man it's me I hit me up on that that phone three one zero is serious underwood's that all the cops were preoccupied chasing down search warrant for his device he outfox cloud so whatever story was gonNA tell you weren't GonNa hear it there was nothing left on phone serious underwood and Josh Daniels were behind brandies murder but could they prove coming up a stalled kings or you start to lose faith in your police they have win against the talk about turning a local business into an empire get that conversation now what is the next thing we've gotta do investigators were pretty sure they had the ormer vast I'm in the don't let me and physical Randy didn't request deputy this couldn't tie the two of them together despite some suspicious phone traffic between the pair Josh Daniels was here starting his new chapter living in Wa Silla about an hour the job on the north slope oilfields he was partying pumping iron and chasing his girlfriend Wendy every time that I had a little spat or whatever I was frustrated just like I've already told you every single thing and it's never going to change if you don't lie you don't have every time we'd hear something we'd contact them still need to get more evidence to need to get it was three months to the day after brandies murder when the Ohio investigators got a phone well we detective subtle and Ryan heard that they were on the plane to Alaska within hours he was dating time she had the detectives undivided attention he said that he's killed her awesome free and he say who kill Brandy since I just between the two men mix in the geography of the cell phone towers that put a suspect burner arrest warrants are quite when the detectives got back to Ohio their first stop that before we took the case to grand jury that we had a motive obviously thousands of miles away at the time you knew he didn't pull the trigger gun in his didn't pull the couldn't find any almost two years went by and nothing how stressful Mike Ryan he would call things sometimes work out because the investigators were about to get another bolt out of the I heard that her husband was part of a stick up gang we came in and spoke with her and obtained a lot of valuable for an interview guess who she identified as two members of the robbery crew none other woman confirmed something detective Michael had long suspected but been unable to prove the we had been here January first two thousand twelve what might we have rolling down the knocked down the tipster claimed the Josh wasn't the victim of the robbery but ensemble for multiple armed robberies most of them captured on surveillance video that's or they're hitting Gabriel brothers during the day he's the sweetest guy in Crime Josh Daniels to the violent robberies would help nail the two for Brandy Daniel's slow airport beliefs whisked him into their office detective Michael Show Dr Michael Then handed Josh another photo serious on a room supplying a being up to his eyeballs in the robberies so sometimes knew they had more work to do but in any conspiracy there's a weakling could deal let's talk dateline continues doc investigation whether generous dollop of luck had revealed the Josh and serious were more the hold ups for state's attorney Mike Hanning's a homicide case had achieved conspirators violent criminals in several robberies there was his wife might be a risk for him that's correct CI might snitch him out she might snitch him out jurors to follow you've got robberies going on the homicide the cellphone data how more than one hundred witnesses in March two thousand sixteen it returned indictments gave the green light to the troopers to move on their suspect they did the cuffs went on without Ragas gave brothers Tumbleweed. This is what you're responsible for this is what happened that's fine Josh. Meanwhile back in Zanesville police surrounded serious underwood's debate indicted aggravated murder aggravated robberies. Tell you that you have the opportunity to tell me to would you like to talk to me about this at the end of her shift I get do you need to get down here now they're you're in have to bring all the pain right back again how did he look to you in the girl pity shot her to death on that road now I don't serious high just is Welsh and lytle prepared their cases Josh would be tried first then do these defendants are serious the over achieving charmer and bad husband associated path whereas for Josh it was a a status of being enraged of elephant doses of steroids his chemically enhanced muscles deflated like spent balloons. Let's talk the issue that we had you know who do you make the deal with the guy that had his wife killed the murder coming up one down one to go
The Refuge Revealed
"Reveal is supported by. Bbn T now truest bbn. T's C's all sides of you beyond just your financial side. They see your personal side. You're strong and side. You're silly side you're vulnerable side. You're loving side because when they focus on you they strive to be the Best Bang for you that they can be at. Bbn T always see. Is You to learn more visit? Abt DOT COM slash checking. Now you can get enhanced security for your home wifi network with Xfinity X. Fi if it's connected it's protected now that's simple easy. Awesome go to xfinity DOT COM. Call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store today to learn more restrictions apply from the Center for investigative reporting NPR X. Vis is reveal I'm outlets in. We're starting this week. Show on a boat near the top the world reporter Amy Martin the PODCAST threshold is about to visit. A part of the United States has been fought over for decades. The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Anwar inside the captain of the boat is vebjorn. I Santa Retained Vebjorn in his early twenties and lives in the village of Cocteau. Look if you look at a map of Alaska. It's way up in the northeast on small barrier island. They Bjorn's taking amy and her colleague. Nick Mod over to the mainland. It's a cloudy day. As they motored. Along the edge of the North American continent slowly emerges from the mist. What you see is a great ocean liner green and black but is the land and above that big gray and that's the sky. The refuge is almost ten times the size of yellowstone national park but with no roads. No hotels a souvenir shops chess wilderness. It's the largest wildlife refuge in the country home to Wolves Arctic Foxes wolverines candidate links and all types of North American bears and this northern part of it is known as the coastal plain. It's where tens of thousands of careful nurture their newborn calves. It's also oil. Companies have been fighting for the right to drill for more than forty years. A fight they won in two thousand seventeen when they got congressional approval even though most Americans are still opposed to it for vebjorn. This place of controversy is just as home. I don't think people think of it as a refugee when we think of it as our where we come from kind of baby. Orang Dad's from Norway. His mom is from Cocteau vic which is actually inside the refuge. She's from the New York Indigenous Group. I've been on the refuge. Since before actor walked my mom would carry me and the backer park that suspend part of your whole life refuge is important to us. We're spending this hour in the refuge with our partners from the podcast threshold who's reporting was supported by the Pulitzer Center. This is a critical moment. Drilling hasn't started yet. But the federal government could auction off oil and gas leases at any time. That's despite the fact that this part of the country is already feeling dramatic effects of climate. Change Amy Martin takes from here as we move toward the coast. The Pallet is simple. Just like Bjorn said it's all grays muted Greens and soft browns. Wow that's beautiful out here. We approached the coastal plain. And vebjorn tells us to hop out while he secures the boat. I'm more than happy to comply. I'm feeling a little giddy because I'm finally standing in this place but I've been hearing about for my entire adult life. We're all a little spit of land. gravelly beach and Little Blustery Wendy do we wet and in front of us is Green Tunder of the coastal plain. It's gorgeous my first impression is just wide open space. The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is huge. Almost twenty million acres or about thirty thousand square miles so if we were to hike from this spot on the coastal plain down to the southern boundary of the refuge it would be like walking across the state of South Carolina or the entire country of Austria without seeing a single town or House or road. You can picture the refuge having three main regions brushing foothills in the south the mighty brooks range cutting across the middle and then in the north where we are the Swath of Tundra resting between the mountains and the ocean and all of these Habitats High Alpine riparian coastal plain. They all flow together with nothing. Human-made intruder interrupt this variety and connectivity is part of what makes the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge unique and highly attractive to so many different species of animals. This is wild country just as beautiful huge wide open plain. I lie down in the grass to listen and look it's like an ocean of grass and there's a sense of solitude I wanted to talk to the people who have the most at stake if drilling happens here so nick and I go to Cocteau Vic V. Bjorn's home it's a village of about three hundred people and it's the only town inside the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge now that Congress has approved drilling people could have rigs operating right next door to them but it could also mean that. This town is suddenly awash in cash and I wanted to know how people here are feeling about that. I know there's another Baritone pure I saw Robert Thompson runs a company that takes people on tours to see polar bears in and around Cocteau Vic. He'd spotted some bears close to his house on the other side of the village and drove over to get us so we could see them to. He drives US slowly along the gravel roads scanning forbears and then parks on the edge of town facing out toward the ocean. He thinks we have a good chance of seeing bare here. Called drizzly morning. Oh Oh goodness there is a better over there. Oh Yeah. He turned sideways too. Bears ambling along edge. The Island clearly led by their noses. They lower their heads to sniff the ground and then raised them to sniff the air in sort of slow rhythm as they walk. Robert says the Arctic warms more and more bears are coming to the refuge and Toco Vic at all any time when all is gone already. Gauchan all the bears are going to have to come to shore so they could become extinct. Polar bears evolved to spend a lot of time living on sea-ice they sleep on it. They hunt seals and other ocean animals from it the even build their winter dens in it but lately sea ice has been receding into the far north in the summers and it can carry the bears into really deep water where they have a hard time. Finding Food Robertson's some polar bears are learning to get off the ice before it melts and instead make a go of it on land places like the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and Barrier Islands. Like this one this influx of polar. Bears has been good for Roberts guiding business. But it's also made him keenly aware of what's at stake here. I could be here. And she the last Polar Bear Alaska. That'll be sad to see. I haven't seen a bear for a few years. Oh there must be on could be. You know people don't realize that this climate change is quite serious because he still walking. It's actually it looks like it's almost like getting deeper in. Its is maybe about to start swimming. I don't know you can see a little black nose moving back and forth. This is kind of how it went with Robert. We're taking in this really heavy information about the long-term prospects for these animals while simultaneously getting our minds blown watching them go about their polar bear business. It's just a few degrees above freezing. The wind is whipping and tossing big waves and the polar bear watching just strolls into the water as if it strolling across a park just kind of bobbing around out there in the ocean. It's crazy one of the surreal. Things about this scene is it. When I glance behind me I can see the village of Cocteau BEC- right there. Kobe is actually set up. Community polar bear patrolling system to alert residents when bears could close to try to hayes them away from the village. Robert says all of this is a big change from how it used to be. He grew up in Interior Alaska but he moved to Cocteau vic more than thirty years ago but Gareth weren't really a problem until recently with climate change. No Arctic Ocean is opening up when I first came and you can see the pack ice from shore all summer that be within sight. Let four or five miles. There was ice there all the time we go out there the boat and Shit on the ice and hunt seals or whales. Now who do you see any ice? We'll see now it's all gone. There's probably two hundred miles open water right now and every year it's more and this is one of the main reasons why. Robert is strongly opposed to oil development in the refuge. He sees a direct relationship between drilling for oil and losing polar bears. He says he asks his neighbors. Who Support Oil Development? What YOU WANNA do. Make a lot of money or preserve the culture. They they know. That's not the right to be that way. What would you say to people who were like? You know what though people on October they live here. They need the money to help their community. There's argument like well. We need the money. Well they can go get a job and work for it. I have much Chevy because I'm not worried about money a it. They don't need this money to get ahead in this community because they still got but ninety five percent of the North Slope. It could be exploited. It don't need to do the refuge to get the money. He doubts that the people cocteau vic will really benefit that much from drilling. He thinks they're being sold an empty dream. And I've seen in in writing criticism. speaks only does trips and he's making money off. Well yes I am showing people refuge and then they go and talk about it so there is some resentment that there's people here showing the public about it so I'm not going to worry about it. I can't trip me up. I plot for the right of freedom of speech democracy and I say anything I want and when Robert says he fought for that right. He means it very literally. He's a veteran of the Vietnam War. Twentieth Birthday was my first duty. It'd be at home and put me on new neo. Pets may twentieth birthday. I E A duty then I came up here and start living here and hunting and you're GonNa put an oilfield where I go hunting and I don't want to live in an oilfield so to stop that experience in Vietnam shapes how you look at. Somebody's environmental issues it on degree because Kenro the peace and tranquility get from being on land as something that we should all look at you know especially after you know being a war so easily. You can feel how you needed that oil. A lot of people do. What are the questions that comes up again and again in the national debate over the Arctic? National Wildlife. Refuge is if you've never been to the refuge if you don't live in Alaska should you have a say in determining the fate of this place Robert Thompson says yes he says you don't have to live and Cocteau vic to find meaning in comfort in knowing the refuge there without the roads and lights and noise that Philip so much of the rest of this planet most people won't be out on their refuge? Three hundred twenty five million people in United States. What percentage will ever get to know that places still It's April future. Generations are Prestia. Nice to go to other things that people should look at That's not how matthew expertise it. I went on a tour of the same village with him and he says this community needs oil development. In order to thrive Matthews thirty four years old. He's lived in this village his whole life and like most people in Cocteau vic he's INUPIAT. He's the tribal administrator here among several other leadership roles. This runway was installed around the Cold War Era One thousand nine hundred forty nine thousand fifties and sixties and the original coughed lovie community. Settlement was where this old runway used to be in front of us. We're driving on a low lying narrow strip of Land Matthew says when the Air Force wanted a place to land their planes. They bulldozed the village. That was here and the local people had to rebuild in a new spot on the island and that was just the first time in the nineteen fifties there was a second relocation of the community and in the nineteen sixties. There was the final relocation of the community. To where Cocteau. Vic is right now three times three times. Many of the houses are built up on piers that lift them above the puddles and pools seeping up from the permafrost soil and almost every home is surrounded by the signature gear. Arctic life four wheelers and boats sleds and snowmobiles plus the occasional musk ox hide whalebone or set of Caribou Antlers. How have you seen the village change in your thirty four years old so prior to I'd say around the year two thousand our community Didn't have a water sewage system installed as it is today where we can flush a toilet prior to that. We had honey buckets an a lot of this infrastructure in our community that gravel roads the power of the water infrastructure have been built from the tax revenues for the oil and Gas Infrastructure Development. In the pipeline. When you get to flush the toilet in October you can thank the Orleans. Yes yes although most of the land of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is owned by the federal government more than ninety thousand acres of the Coastal Plain is native land but because that native land is part of the refuge oil development has been prohibited. There Orlands have always been locked up and no development has ever occurred on our lands in regards to oil and gas development. So when you say it's been locked up like you're saying that for your whole life. Nobody has been able to make any money. From oil and Gas Development on native lands yes on the coastal plain that is correct it took an act of Congress to allow for the coastal plain to be opened up. And then that that happened in December. Two thousand seventeen with the passage of the tax bill and and what How did that feel to you and you got the news like past? Oh it's it was. If felt like a blessing I mean the opportunities for our people Have BEEN OPENED UP? And if any development does occur in and around our area we want to ensure that it is done right. It's important to keep in mind. That Alaskan natives never consented to have any of their land owned by the United States or anyone else and the people of Cocteau. Vick don't fully control the small portion of their historic lands that they do own now. There are indigenous people with strong feelings on both sides of this debate but native voices are often left out of the conversation Matthews Uncle Fenton. Brexit traveled to Washington. Dc In March of Twenty nineteen to testify in support of drilling at the time house. Democrats had introduced a bill aimed at stopping it. We are not an exhibit museum. Row shoots the land that we have survived and thrived through centuries be locked away for the peace of mind from those from Faraway Places Fenton tells lawmakers about the history of this community nineteen forty seven the US military Cold War arrived on Bhadra and talk to build a five thousand foot runway ganger. We were told to move our really our home sellers graves. Intimidators were does that filled in he lists a series of injustices including the creation of the Arctic National Wildlife Range Nineteen sixty the predecessor to the current refuge range was established with our in. October without consultation are right to. We're now restrict it. Further nineteen sixty four the military directed again the third time to move and then in one thousand nine hundred eighty came the bill that doubled the size of the wildlife range. An added to the National Wildlife Refuge system. This looked like a huge conservation win too many people in the lower forty eight but Fenton says it felt very different in Cocteau. Vic The interest of the outright contribution group trumped the interest of our people we have spent over forty years lobbying congress to oil and gas leasing within the coastal plain even leasing our own native land required to act of Congress since the federal government showed up one hundred fifty two years to go the OT groups have used the federal government asks a tool to assure their own interest in our land this school of amount to nothing more than green colonialism political occupation of our land in the name of environment for the general public the fight over drilling in the refuge is about the value of wildlife and pristine places versus the value of oil but for many people in Cocteau Vic. The heart of this conflict is about something else entirely sovereignty and all of the ways. It's been ignored for some people in this community. Oil Development feels like a way to fight back against colonization and put more power in the hands of local people for others. It feels exactly the opposite. The drilling is just the next step in the colonization process and that will only further erode their culture but even if they disagree on oil development everyone met in Cocteau BEC- expressed a strong common value a determination for Nubia culture to survive but the people on the only Alaska natives who live here and are fighting to keep their culture alive. We go one hundred fifty miles south to find what oil developing means in Arctic village. That's next on reveal from the Center for investigative reporting MPR x. from Center for investigative reporting NPR X. VIS is reveal. I'm outlets in this hour. Win The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Meaning people who live here and have the most at stake in what happens to this protected landscape. As we mentioned earlier the Americans have been fighting for the oil companies. Should be allowed to drill in this refuge. For over forty years twenty seventeen congress legalized drilling. And the trump administration says they'll start auctioning off development rights to oil companies. Soon opponents to drilling are still vowing to stop that from happening some of the people who leaned that fight the longest live in Arctic Village Alaska. That's reporter Amy Martin of the PODCAST threshold. Our partners on this week show. She's walking through. This small village perched on the southern boundary of the refuge. She's trying to catch up with Gideon James before he goes out to check his fish nets in his canoe. May very well have literally missed the boat. Most people in the village are which in part of the ATHABASCA. Family of tribes territory extends across a big region in northeastern Alaska and northwest Canada and Caribou are at the center of their culture and their diet. The kitchen nation is firmly against drilling on the coastal plain. Amy Hopped into another boat to find out why I managed to catch Gideon just as he was about his canoe into the water. Hopefully it won't need those skills. He expertly maneuvers out into the calm waters of the creek and paddles toward a net. That he strung up across it. We haven't gone very far. When he spots trouble a Muskrat. You put my net out of mud but soon we've got other things to focus on. There's one that's big one gideon. Paddles US up close to the net and I looked down into the clearwater. At least two more I think maybe three more he starts to pull the net up something and soon. He's holding a huge northern pike in his hands. Moster it is a monster. Oh my God hey. We spent about a half hour pulling fish out of the net or go to together and then paddled a canoe back to the bank. We walked back to his house. Each of US carrying a big bucket full of fish Gideon is a maker and a fixer in one room of his house. He's preparing a boat motor next to a table where he's making delicate jewelry. It seems like there's nothing he can't do a hand painted sign over his work. Bench says think patient. Don't rush and understand your work and another handmaid's sign withdrawing the drum on it says save Arctic refuge. We start talking about drilling in the refuge in the jolly tone Gideon had when we were out in the canoe quickly changes. We don't need to go to. We need to go to Because we don't need to do that. They think they think that's progress. That's not progress Gideon as opposed to drilling in the refuge because he wants to protect the big Caribou herd here. It's called the porcupine herd after the porcupine river which winds through the territory. They've shared with the glitch in four Millennia. The porcupine herd has the longest land migration route of any mammal on the planet. It can be more than fifteen hundred miles round trip and they use the coastal plain of the refuge as a calving ground. But that's not. The only reason gideon is against drilling the refuge. He's also worried about climate change and he doesn't see how oil development is really improving the lives of Alaskan native people the issue that is the corporation rip off. That's been happening in our lives later this year too that he traces that disconnect back to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act or inca a huge federal land claims bill passed in nineteen seventy one. It was intended to settle the question of which parts of Alaska would owned by its original inhabitants. A steady laying claim bill. The way it was designed. Is there -able when he first heard about Inca Gideon says he thought it was going to be good for his community and all indigenous Alaskans? Because that's the way the legislation was promoted in places like Arctic village in Early Seventy S. I believe all the stuff that they were going to say. They're going to do the promise of the economic boom and bitter school and and Bitter Health Program in Alaska which never became real and here. After forty years the things they're not crew the crew today forgetting the idea that drilling for more oil is GONNA lift up. Native people in Alaska is almost insulting. They've had forty years to do that. He says and it hasn't happened from his perspective drilling in the Arctic. National Wildlife Refuge. Looks like another bad idea. In which outsiders reap the rewards and the glitch in feel the losses and that's what climate change looks like to him to clam occasion happening and we just can't sit down and talk about it. We need to do something about it. We need to do something about it. Walking Arctic village feels more like walking on a country road. Been walking through town other than the main drag or you can find the store a church. School houses are pretty spread out. And it's obvious that people here still rely heavily on the animals of this region to sustain themselves. Fish are laid out on drying racks. Next to people's homes entryways are decorated with antlers and children who painted tributes to Caribou all over the outside wall of the store and everywhere I went I found tiny bits of bone and teeth scattered on the ground. This place is so defined by hunting that the bodies of animals have become part of the soil itself. My Name's Sarah James and I live in Arctic Village Alaska and it's called SHANECO. That means a creek with a height bank. Sarah is getting sister. She's in her mid seventies and she wears her long grey hair in a ponytail down her back as she leads me into her house. We walked by buckets on her porch holding thick bones. That were clearly part of a living animal not too long ago. I've been cutting meat. The bones are stripped clean but still stained red with fresh blood she says they came from a Moose recently. Shot by a young man in the village and he shot that his first little moose so he gets to distribute although the which in have always hunted a variety of animals the backbone of their culture is the Caribou in fact. A Central Kitchen story tells of a hunter who traded part of his heart for a Caribou heart so the animals in the people would always be linked together for many people. There's really no distinction between keeping the porcupine herd alive and keeping their culture alive they're completely intertwined so the prospect of drilling in the Caribou calving grounds and disrupting the animals at a very sensitive stage in their life. Cycle feels deeply threatening some people on the pro oil side. Say The question are blowing. This whole thing. Out of proportion that oil development isn't really a threat to the porcupine herd they point to pictures of Caribou from other herds grazing next pipelines as evidence that drilling and wildlife habitat can coexist but even though some Caribou can adapt to industrial development. It's clear that these animals prefer habitat with no human disturbance. They thrive in big wild cold landscapes and over the last twenty years. Caribou herds across the polar north have faced precipitous declines. They've gone from nearly five million animals to just over two million. The causes for those declines vary but there is one species behind them all As we log and mine and drill and build roads further and further nores and warm the climate. Caribou numbers are quickly going down. Sarah says she started hearing that the calving grounds of the porcupine. Caribou herd might be open for drilling in the Nineteen Eighty S. And so I went to my brother that time. They told my brother come. They keep killing. They're GONNA do gas and all the bomb and up there and she said the oil company are huge. They're very huge. We can't stop A in. Just us is to huge I. I don't think we'll get anywhere with. It will shall see about it and tell him that in on just hit they might be away. Listless work on he set soy. I laugh and she got to work. I was one of the tribal council and tribal concert chose mean to deal with the environment issues so Sarah started going to meetings throughout the region learning about what was going on up on the coast and how it might affect the Caribou. She says she definitely wasn't working alone. Lots of folks were involved including a new people who are also concerned about protecting the Caribou and their own communities in nineteen eighty seven. They succeeded in getting the US and Canada to sign an international treaty designed to protect the PORCUPINE Caribou herd. An language of the treaty. Made it clear that the animals needed to be protected both for their own sake and for the sake of the people who depend on them both. Nutritionally and culturally treaty also established the Porcupine Caribou Management Board which still exists today and is supposed to be consulted on development projects that could impact the heard. But the glitch in new the allure of the oil was GONNA continue to turn the heads of the big companies and the treaty lacked an enforcement mechanism by itself. It wasn't enough to prevent drilling on the Coastal Plain. So members of the New Management Board started going out to villages and talking to people. They went to each village in Talk. Elders. What are we should do and one alert Mary. Kay and she said well we should call like which a nation back together. It take it on from then. Sarah says this idea of bringing the whole which nation together to figure out how to respond to the threat of oil development quickly gained traction among the Chin so they call which earned gather hair. Arctic Fish June five to ten nineteen eighty eight people start coming in. I think we have fifteen chief U. S. and Canada and fifteen elders from each village. Sarah says back in what she calls? Bow and Arrow days the semi nomadic life which meant that all of the different subgroups met and mingled frequently. But the colonization process had changed that and the various which in bands have become much more separate from each other at the nineteen eighty-eight gathering. Sarah says they were reminded that they shared a common language and history and common concerns for the future. And it's just like a rebirth of the nation. A whole getting to know each other. There's some graveyard of their relatives here. They want to visit one. Native Own Media Organization was allowed to film parts of the event. They were on which people who came to the gathering to government officials representatives from Conservation Groups and Sarah says they brought their non. Which in ways of doing things with them. They came up with agenda but when they start the meeting there will see elders. Took over the meetings and say we don't need these so they tore up. That will take it from here. Whatever plan outside groups may have had the elder said? No thank you. This is our gathering and we'll do it our way and then somebody presented coking stick stick with the Eagle head on and then they said would talk with the stick and we had to be in the center of the whole Community Hall. So that's how they ran the meeting and almost everything happened in which in maple recap natal riddled with. The video. Doesn't give names for individual speakers but it does provide translations and this man is saying oil burns when trucks and cats work in the wells drilled. The oil spreads all over the Cariboo Food Club. Congar Deke. Imitator. He says what will become of our children when the Caribou go the story of the outside groups creating an agenda and elders promptly tossing it out. I think this is an important detail. One of the Meta battles surrounding the fight over drilling in the refuge is who controls. The narrative are pro oil groups using some new people to advance their agenda. Our conservation groups doing the same with a glitch in but both of those lines of thought. Give all the agency to White People in Sarah's narrative. The glitch in are the protagonists. They know what they want. And they make it happen. She's not describing some hapless group of people who can easily be manipulated by outsiders and together. Here we're GONNA fight in a good way to teach many white people out there who do not understand our ways. We got to teach them. Sarah says it quickly became clear that there was no disagreement. Among the kitchen about the goal with they were trying to figure out was a strategy. They know that they're against or gas development. Hobby going to do it. You know and then they say the only way we're GONNA win is Sunday's will do it in a good way. Educate the world in good way and make friends because we can't do it our service to huge so they wrote a resolution a short clear message saying who they were and what they wanted. It says the glitch in have a right to continue their way of life and that their culture depends on the Cariboo therefore oil and gas development should be prohibited in the ten to area the part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We're drilling has now been approved signatures. I think about this. You may have one nation of people that are saying no no we are the Caribou people ever wasn't for the care but we won't be here today to take away a who you are and be proud of who you are. That's genocide Sarah has reason to use that particularly chilling word. The United States has done this. Before in the lower forty eight many native American tribes were as tightly linked to bison as the which are to Caribou and in the nineteenth century the federal government subsidized the mass slaughter of the Bison herds in part as a way to starve native people and their cultures in other words the destruction of the buffalo was part of the Genocide of Native Americans and Sarah and other Gwen. People say there's a real danger of repeating that dark history with Caribou Lane. We made the right decision back in nineteen eighty eight. We overcame many many battles. Because all American out there along with us sport loud and clear. They don't WanNa gas and oil development and I believe it's GonNa stay that way. I believe we're GONNA win. The oil industry has already won a big battle just by getting drilling approved up next. Amy Asks why they're fighting so hard to drill in the refuge when the race is on to transition to renewables. What do you do in the meantime? Do you go back to you know candlesticks. I mean I don't think so. That's next on reveal from the Center for investigative reporting NPR ex From the Center for Investigative Reporting P. R. X. Vis IS REVEAL I'M L. Listen we've been spending this hour in the Arctic. National Wildlife Refuge hearing from people who live there about what oil and gas development would mean for them. But we haven't heard from one group that has a big stake in this decision. The oil and Gas Industry Amy Martin from the PODCAST threshold headed to a nondescript office building anchorage to find out why drilling in the refuge is so important to them. Here's Amy Karen Moriarty is the president of the Alaska Oil and Gas Association and we're the Professional Trade Association for the oil and Gas Industry Alaska. So our job is to advocate on behalf of the entire industry to continue the long-term by ability of the industry for the state. I met carrot in her office. You'll hear some fans flipping on and off a bit as we talk and she started out by explaining that even if there were a Li sale in the refuge this year oil probably wouldn't start flowing from the Coastal Plain until the twenty thirties. She said it would take a dozen years or so to get through the lawsuits regulations. An exploration process leading up to drilling so companies that bid for the right to drill in the refuge are betting that the demand for oil will continue far into the future. It's still going to be the majority of fuel source that supplies the Globes energy needs for the next thirty to forty years. So why wouldn't we then as a country want to develop in our backyard? Where we know. We have the strictest environmental standards if you look at all the world estimates for the next thirty years the demand for oil does not go away so one thing that I think. I know some people would say hearing you is. You know you said why. Wouldn't we develop it? I think some people would say because there's lots and lots of oil available in the world already in places that are more developed or you know already have impact but this is a place that is pretty special in the world. Why NOT Even if we have to develop it someday fifty years down the road and we're having some kind of massive crisis why not save it for then instead of Going there now when it is really. It's a special habitat. That has a lot of wildlife in it. We have been saving it. We we've been saving it for forty years already and most Americans want to keep saving it the refuges federal land owned by all US citizens and although a majority of alaskans support drilling in the refuge. Two-thirds of registered voters in the country overall oppose it according to a recent pool? So I wanted to hear care as best argument for why those people should change their minds. Why should the oil industry be allowed to use public land for private gain? Why should Americans say yes? To oil development in the refuge oil basins they peak and they declined is the nature of the business. And so you have to constantly be replacing that decline and increasing it and and the potential so really. This oil is going to be available in twenty thirty two. It's not about getting the oil right now. It is about having the oil for the next generation to come so I think another big argument. You just actually touched on. It would just be climate change. There's a lot of people would say why. Why should we invest resources and and basically set up the momentum toward getting more fossil fuels out of the ground when they're warming the planet In what what's your response to that. Well I think it's very impractical to say that we're going to be without the use of fossil fuels in the next three decades because there's not enough alternative energy available and it certainly would not be affordable for consumers. It's true that there is currently not enough alternative energy to meet demand. There are a host of reasons for that. Transforming a fundamental sector of the economy isn't simple but renewables are going fast and one of the major reasons why they haven't grown faster is the oil industry itself. Their indirect ways that the oil industry has constrained the growth of alternatives things like tax subsidies and crowding out of competitors but oil companies have also taken direct actions that have blocked the growth of renewables including spending millions of dollars on campaigns to suppress climate science and confused the public about the dangers of global warming. Lately the big oil companies have been changing their tune on that but what they say is sometimes very different from what they do as just one example we can look at BP which is a member of Caras Trade Organization. They publicly say they support putting a price on carbon to help reduce emissions but in two thousand eighteen. Bp spent more than ten million dollars to help defeat a carbon pricing ballot initiative in the state of Washington even so Kara says oil companies are helping to develop new greener technologies and the reality is my very member. Companies globally are the companies investing in the technology to help with carbon capture with switching from gas stations to electrical stations for cars. We're we're not bad. And we're not bad for wanting to continue to meet the global demand for the use of oil and gas and so you know as we continue to develop. We know that we're going to continue to improve in two thousand eighteen. The world's biggest oil and gas companies together spent around one percent of their budgets on clean energy. That's not nothing but many citizens say the oil industry is still doing a lot more to hurt the climate then to help it. So they've been using a new tool pressuring banks not to invest in oil development and that pressure has yielded some results. The European Investment Bank has pledged and financing for all fossil fuel projects after twenty twenty one and several other international banks have specifically called out the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as a place where they will not invest in oil and gas in two thousand nineteen the first US Bank joined the club. Goldman Sachs announced. They will not finance any new drilling or oil exploration in the Arctic. It's unclear if or how much all of this might affect the outcome of Alea sale but the public opposition combined with the relatively low price of oil right now in the high cost of extraction in this remote area make drilling in the refuge or riskier proposition than most. But there could be a less obvious prize. Some companies hoped to claim honestly. There's probably a lot more gas in the coastal plain than there is oil. I mean we have hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas on the North Slope. If you look. Globally natural gas is the real story of energy development in the Arctic. The gas industry is booming in the Russian north and like Cara said the North Slope of Alaska has enormous natural gas reserves to the problem in Alaska though is transportation attempts to build a gas pipeline similar to the oil pipeline that cuts through the state. Gone nowhere so far but oil and gas executives must be casting their eyes longingly on all that untapped gas in the refuge an even though both the oil and gas markets are considered to be an estate of supply. Right now Cara says we have to keep opening up new areas for drilling. What we have today will not be enough to supply the next thirty to forty years so we have to add resources as we continue this transition to other sources of energy even with oil fifty six dollars a barrel who knows what oil price GonNa be. I mean the discoveries in Texas and break I mean but but the discoveries in Texas are still not going to help meet the demand thirty to forty years from now so in the end you kind of need it. All you have to be able to to add to The reserves tried to explain. I think though that that feeling that you know in the end we are going to need it all. I mean. That's kind of the crux of it. Is that there are a lot of people saying like no. Actually the truth of it is we have to stop before we get it all but but but but but my answer my question back to them as what are you GonNa do. I mean if you stop and you know that the alternative energy isn't going to be there. What do you do in the meantime? Do you go back to you know candlesticks. I don't think so. But that dodges the question almost everyone recognizes a transition is necessary here that we can't just stop all use of fossil fuels tomorrow and go back to candlesticks. Cara says where the real debate lies is over. When and how and how fast we're going to make the transition that's where the question emerges about opening up new fields especially in pristine wilderness areas back in the refuge. These arguments feel a world away. It's not that important to me to have money. I guess I'm sitting next to Vebjorn is Sean Array Tan and his boat again heading out from Cocteau Vic to visit the coastal plain and. I don't think we should. We should sacrifice our land that makes us who we are so we again have a stake in the industry that's ultimately GONNA lose. I think I don't think we should sacrifice what we are just so they can drill oil. Bjorn lands the boat and we walk around a little bit on the Tundra. It's wet and green. With little creeks cutting down to the beach. A Hawk covers in the distance flapping its wings and staring into the grass with hunters intense focus. Some supporters of drilling in the refuge including many leading politicians have tried to devalue this place in an attempt to persuade others not to protect it. They portrayed the coastal plain as ugly unimportant a wasteland but to yarn and many other people who live here people on both sides of the drilling debate. This place is precious and wave your and says if we can't see that and feel it maybe that says more about us than it does about this place think people should get out good for people to be out on the land. Think it's important to live outside your house. Just be locked up inside being with Vebjorn on the coastal plain. The refuge made me think of a poem by Wendell Berry. It's called how to be a poet and there are these three lines in the middle. Go like this. There are no UN sacred places. There are only sacred places and desecrated. It's it's beautiful in its own way. It's it's not. It's not like a beautiful mountain. You could say strikingly empty right now. It's it's beautiful in a different way. So what happens next well? Over a year ago the Department of the Interior said there would be a lease sale in the refuge before the end of two thousand nineteen. That didn't happen. They're also not saying anything about win. The sale might be so as it has for the last four years. The future of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge remains uncertain. We WanNA thank Amy Martin and Nick Matt and the whole team at threshold for their work on this week show. Their podcast tackles one pressing environmental issue each season. The third season of threshold is all about the refuge. I highly recommend you check it out at threshold. Podcast DOT ORG or wherever you get your podcast producer for this week. Show was Catherine Moskovsky. The music in this hour was composed by Travis. Joost support for reveals provided by the reason Dave Logan Foundation the John D and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation before foundation the hazing Siamese Foundation the democracy fund and the Ethics and excellence in journalism. Foundation reveal is a CO production of the Center for investigative reporting in P. R. X. I'M LESSON AND REMEMBER. There is always more to the story
The Refuge Revealed (Rebroadcast)
"From the Center for investigative reporting. Pr X. This is reveal I'm outlets and. We're starting this week show on a boat near the top of the world reporter. Amy Martin podcast threshold is about to visit a part of the United States has been fought over for decades the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Anwar. The captain. The boat is Vebjorn is Honorary Tan vebjorn in his early twenties and lives in the village of Cocteau. Vic. If you look at a map, of Alaska, its way up in the northeast on a small barrier island. Vebjorn taking amy and her colleague Nick Mutt over to the mainland. It's a cloudy day and as they motor along the edge of the North American continent slowly emerges from the mist. What you see is a great or shin. A lion of green and black, but is the land. In above that big gray and that's the. Sky. The refuge is almost ten times, the size of yellowstone national park but with no roads, no hotels, a souvenir shops, jess wilderness. It's the largest wildlife refuge in the country home to Wolves Arctic, foxes Wolverines, candid links, and all three types of North American bears and this northern part of it is known as the coastal. Plain. It's where tens of thousands of care but notre their newborn caps. It's also oil companies have been fighting for the right to drill for more than forty years a fight. They won twenty seventeen when they got congressional approval, even though most Americans are still opposed to it. For vebjorn. Place of controversy is just home. I don't think people think of it as a refugee even when you think of it as our. Where we come from kind of Baby on Dad's from Norway. His mom is from Cocteau Vic, which is actually inside the refuge. She's from the INUPIAT indigenous group I've been on the refuge since before I can walk my mom was carry me in the back of park that. has been part of your whole life. Refuge is important to us. We're spending this hour in the refuge with our partners from the podcast threshold who won a prestigious peabody award for their reporting. We originally ran this show in March since then a major development has happened about two weeks ago the trump administration finalized plans to open up part of the refuge to oil and gas development. Amy Martin who's reporting was supported by the Pulitzer Center takes it from here. As we move toward the coast the pal it is simple just like vebjorn said, it's all grays muted Greens and soft browns. It's beautiful out here. We approached the coastal plain and Bjorn tells us to hop out while he secures the boat I'm more than happy to comply. I'm feeling a little giddy because I'm finally standing in this place that I've been hearing about for my entire adult life. We're on a little spit of land Gravelly Beach, and Little, blustery windy. Dewey wet. And in front of us is green. Tundra of the Coastal Plain. Gorgeous My first impression is just wide open space. The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is huge almost twenty million acres or about thirty thousand square miles. So if we were to hike from this spot on the coastal plain down to the southern boundary of the refuge, it would be like walking across the state of South Carolina or the entire country of Austria without seeing a single town or House or road. You can picture the refuge having three main regions, brushing foothills in the south. The Mighty Brooks range cutting across the middle and then in the north where we are this swath of Tundra, resting between the mountains and the ocean and all of these Habitats High Alpine riparian coastal plain they all flow together with nothing human-made to intrude or interrupt. This variety and connectivity is part of what makes the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge unique and highly attractive to so many different species of animals. This is wild country. Just as beautiful, huge wide open. Plain. I lie down in the grass to listen and look. It's like an ocean of grass. And there's a sense of Solitude. A. I. Wanted to talk to the people who have the most at stake if drilling happens here. So Nick and I go to Cocteau Vic vebjorn home it's a village of about three hundred people and it's the only town inside the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge now that Congress has approved drilling people could have rigs operating right next door to them. But it could also mean that this town is suddenly awash in cash and I wanted to know how people here are feeling about that. I know there's another barrier town of pure I saw one. Robert Thompson runs a company that takes people on tours to see polar bears in around Cocteau Vic. He'd spotted some bears close to his house on the other side of the village and drove over to get us. So we could see them to he drives US slowly along the gravel roads, scanning forbears, and then parks on the edge of town facing out towards the ocean. He thinks we have a good chance of seeing bare here. Called Grey drizzly morning. Oh Very a better. Facing over there straight ahead Oh. Yeah. I'll turn. Sideways one. Two bears are ambling along the edge of the island clearly led by their noses they lower their heads to sniff the ground and then raise them to sniff the air in a sort of slow rhythm as they walk. Robert says the Arctic warms more and more bears are coming to the refuge and to Cocteau Vic at all at any time when all is gone already, Gauchan all bears combine shore. So They could become extinct. Polar bears evolved to spend a lot of time living on sea ice they sleep on it they hunt. and other ocean animals from it the even build their winter dens in it, but lately, sea ice has been receding into the Far North in the summers and it can carry the bears into really deep water where they have a hard time finding food. Robertson. Some polar bears are learning to get off the ice before it melts and instead make a go of it on land places like the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and barrier islands like this one. This influx of polar bears has been good for Roberts guiding business, but it's also made him keenly aware of what's at stake here. Could be here in the last bear. Alaska. Be Sad to see L., I haven't seen bear for years. Oh. There must be gone. Could be you know people don't realize that this climate change is quite serious. He's still walking. Actually, it looks like it's almost the waters like getting deeper in its. Is maybe about to start swimming I duNno, you can see a little black nose moving and forth. This is Kinda how it went with Robert. We're taking in this really heavy information about the long-term prospects for these animals while simultaneously getting our minds blown, watching them go about their polar bear business. It's just a few degrees above freezing the wind is whipping and tossing up big waves and the polar bear were watching. Strolls into the water as if it strolling across a park, it just kind of bobbing around out there in the ocean. It's crazy. One of the surreal things about this scene is it. When I glanced behind me I can see the village of Cocteau big right there. CUCK toby is actually set up a community polar bear patrolling system to alert residents when bears could close to try to haze them away from the village. Robert says all this is a big change from how it used to be. He grew up in Interior Alaska but moved to Cocteau vic more than thirty years ago. But Berg, really a problem until recently with climate change in the Arctic Ocean is opening up when I first came, you could see the pack ice from shore. All summer. Entitlement, four or five miles. There was ice there all the time we'd go out there the boat should on the ice and hunt seals or whales now. Who Do you see? Any ice? We'll see now. It's all gone. Here's probably two hundred miles of open water right now. Every year it's more. And this is one of the main reasons why Robert is strongly opposed to oil development in the refuge he sees a direct relationship between drilling for oil and losing polar bears. He says, he asks his neighbors who support oil development. What do you WANNA do. Make a lot of money or preserve the culture they they know. That's not right to be that way. What would you say people who were like? You know what? Though? People on Cocteau Vic live here they need the money to help their community. There's like well, we need the money. Go get a job and work for. I don't have much Chevy because I'm not worried about money and. It. They don't need this money to get. Ahead in this community because they still got about ninety five percent of the north slope, it could be exploited. They don't need to do the refuge to get the money. He doubts that the people of Cocteau Vic will really benefit that much from drilling. He thinks are being sold an empty dream. And I've had I've seen in in writing criticism. speaks, oh, he does trips and making money off it. Well, yes I am children people refuge, and then they go and talk about it senator some resentment that there's people here showing the public about it so. I'm not gonNA worry about it. It can trip me up I plot for the right of freedom of speech democracy. And I say anything I want and when Robert says, he fought for that rate he means it very literally he's a veteran of the Vietnam War. Twenty, th birthday was my first duty it'd be. Put me on Junius. It's my twentieth birthday adversity nudity in Vietnam. And I came up here. And started living here in hunting and you're gonNA put an oilfield where I go hundred and I don't WanNa live in an field. So. Stop that. Do. You think your experience in. Vietnam. Shapes, how you look at somebody environmental issues at all to some degree. In. Peace. And tranquility get from being on land is. Something that we should all look at. Especially after you know being award so. You can feel. That Oh. Yeah A. Lot, of. People do. What are the questions that comes up again and again in the national debate over the Arctic National. Wildlife Refuge is if you've never been to the refuge if you don't live in Alaska. Should you have a say in determining the fate of this place? Robert Thompson says, yes he says, you don't have to live and Cocteau vic to find meaning and comfort in knowing the refugees there without the roads and lights and noise that Philip. So much of the rest of this planet most people won't be out on that refuge. Three hundred and twenty five million people United States. What percentage delivery here but to know that places still It's April future generations that are pristine. Nice to go to. So. Those are things that people look at. No that's not how Matthew Rex fritzy's it. I went on a tour of the same village with him, and he says, this community needs oil development in order to thrive. Matthews. Thirty four years old. He's lived in this village, his whole life and like most people in Cocteau Vic, he's a new Piot. He's the tribal administrator here among several other leadership roles. This runway was installed around the Cold War era one, thousand, nine, hundred, forty s and nineteen fifties and sixties, and the original toft over community settlement was where this old runway used to be in front of us we're driving on a low. Lying narrow strip of Land Matthew says when the Air Force wanted a place to land their planes, they bulldozed the village that was here and the local people had to rebuild in a new spot on the island, and that was just the first time in the nineteen fifties. There was a second relocation of the community and in the nineteen sixties there was the final relocation of the community to wear a Cocteau vk is right now. Three times th- retains. Many of the houses are built up on piers that lift them above the puddles and pools seeping up from the permafrost soil, and almost every home is surrounded by the signature gear of Arctic life four wheelers and boats, sleds, and snowmobiles, plus the occasional musk ox hide whalebone or set of Caribou, antlers? How have you seen the village change in your thirty four years? Oh so prior to I'd say around the year two thousand, our community didn't have a water sewage system installed as it is today where we can flush toilet prior to that we had honey buckets and lot of this infrastructure in our community that gravel roads, the power and electrcity the infrastructure have been built from the tax revenues for the oil and gas infrastructure development in the pipeline. So when you get to flush the toilet and Cocteau, you can think. Yes. Yes. Although most the land of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is owned by the federal government more than ninety thousand acres of the Coastal Plain is native land. But because that native land is part of the refuge oil development has been prohibited. There are lance have always been locked up and no development has ever occurred on our lands in regards soiling gas development. So when you say it's been locked up like you're seeing that for your whole life. Nobody has been able to make any money from oil and gas development on native lands. Yes. On the coastal plain that is correct. It took an act of Congress to allow for the coastal plain to be opened up, and then that that happened in. December. Twenty seventeen with the passage of the tax bill and and what how did that feel to you and you got the news like it. Oh It was felt like a blessing I mean the opportunities for people have been opened up in if any development does in around our area, we want to ensure that it is done right? It's important to keep in mind that Alaskan natives never consented to have any of their lands owned by the United States or anyone else and the people of Cocteau Vick don't fully control the small portion of their historic lands that they do own now. There are indigenous people with strong feelings on both sides of this debate, but native voices are often left out of the conversation. Matthews Uncle Fenton record traveled to Washington. D. In March of Twenty nineteen to testify in support of drilling at the time, House Democrats have introduced a bill aimed at stopping it. We are not an executive. Role shoot the land that we have survived and thrived for centuries beat locked away for the peace of mind from those from faraway places. Centene tells lawmakers about the history of his community nineteen forty seven the US military Cold War arrived on Bhadra and talk to build a five thousand foot runway an anger we were told to move our really our home. Sellers. Grave intimidators were bulldozed advil did he lists a series of injustices including the creation of the Arctic National Wildlife? Range. In nineteen sixty, the predecessor to the current refuge ranch was established without our input. Without consultation. Right to hunt, we're now restricted it further. Nine, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, four, the military drifted again the third time to move. And then in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty came the bill doubled the size of the wildlife range and added it to the National Wildlife Refuge system. This looked like a huge conservation win too many people in the lower forty eight but Fenton says it felt very different in Cocteau Vic, the interest of the outright contribution group of trunked. Interest of our people have spent over forty years lobbying being congress to allow oil and gas leasing within the coastal plain leasing, our own native land required to act of Congress. Since the federal government showed up one hundred, fifty, just two years to go outside groups have used the federal government ask the tool to ensure their own interest in our land. School of amount to nothing more than green colonialism, a political occupation of our land in the name of environment. For the general public, the fight over drilling in the refuge is about the value of wildlife and pristine places versus the value of oil. But for many people in Cocteau Vic the heart of this conflict is about something else entirely sovereignty and all of the ways it's been ignored. For some people in this community, oil development feels like a way to fight back against colonization and put more power in the hands of local people. For others, it feels exactly the opposite. The drilling is just the next step in the colonization process and that will only further erode their culture. But even if they disagree on oil development everyone I met in Cocteau. Vic expressed a strong common value a determination for a New York culture to survive. But the. People on the only Alaska natives who live here and are finding the keep their culture alive. We go one, hundred, fifty miles south define what oil developing means in Arctic village. That's next on reveal from the Center for investigative reporting and PR. X.. Tremaine Lee host of into America a podcast from MSNBC, join me as we go into the roots of inequality economic injustice and a racial injustice, and then when you add health is a health injustice into what's at stake people are going to be voting not for person but for stability and into what comes next into America a podcast about who we are, as Americans, and who wants to become new episodes. Every Monday Wednesday Thursday subscribe now. Know from the Center for investigative reporting NPR x this is revealed I'm outlets. Today we're reassuring a show from back in March that took US inside the Arctic National Wildlife. Refuge. This is a critical moment for the refuge within the past two weeks. The Interior Department removed the final hurdle that would allow oil companies to bid on the right to drill in the refuge. Opponents say the trump administration has failed to take into account the effects on climate and wildlife. Some of the people who have been leading that fight the longest live in Arctic Village Alaska. That's reporter Amy Mart of the podcast threshold our partners on this week show, she's walking through this small village perched on the southern boundary of the refuge. She's trying to catch up with Gideon James for he goes out to check his fish nets in his canoe. I may very well have. Literally missed the boat. Most people in the village are which in part of the ATHABASCA and family of tribes the territory extends across a big region in northeast Alaska and northwest Canada and Caribou or at the center of their culture and their diet. The which in nation is firmly against drilling on the coastal plain. Amy. Hopped into another boat to find out why I managed to catch. Gideon just he was about to put his canoe into the. Water. were. A little bit. Hopefully need those skills. He expertly maneuvers us out into the calm waters of the creek and paddles toward a net that he strung up across it. We haven't gone very far when he spots trouble a Muskrat. Credit. Unless. You. My Net. To Let. But soon, we've got other things to focus on. There's one that's big one grown. Gideon paddles up close to the net and I looked down into the clearwater. Two more I think maybe three more. He starts to pull the net. Something and soon he's holding a huge northern pike in his hands. That'd be good. Monster. Muster. Oh my God who? Get Bush. Hey. We spent about a half hour pulling fish out of the net all go to together and then he paddled a canoe back to the bank. We walked back to his house. Carrying a big bucket full of fish. Gideon is a maker and a fixer in one room of his house. He's preparing a boat motor next to a table where he's making delicate jewelry it seems like there's nothing he can't do. A hand peanut sign over his workbench says think. Don't rush and understand your work. And another handmade sign with a drawing of the drum on it says save Arctic. Refuge. We. Start talking about drilling in the refuge in the jolly tone. Gideon had when we were out in the canoe quickly changes we don't need to go to we need to go to A. Plane, we don't need to do that. They think. Program let's not progress Gideon is opposed to drilling in the refuge because he wants to protect the big. Caribou herd here it's called the porcupine herd after the porcupine river which winds through the territory they've shared with the which in for Millennia. The porcupine herd has the longest land migration route of any mammal on the planet it can be more than fifteen hundred miles round trip and they use the coastal plain of the refuge as a calving ground but that's not the only reason. Gideon is against drilling in the refuge. He's also worried about climate change and he doesn't see how oil development is really improving the lives of Alaskan native people. The issue is that Is The corporation rip off it's been keep happening and our lives later this. Year just a puppy to that. He traces that disconnect back to the Alaska. Native Claims Settlement Act Anka. A huge federal land claims bill passed in nineteen seventy one it was intended to settle the question of which parts of Alaska would-be owned by its original inhabitants. A study len claimed bill the way it was designed terrible when he first heard about. Inca Gideon says, he thought it was going to be good for his community and all indigenous Alaskans because that's the way the legislation was promoted in places like Arctic village in early seventies I believe all of that they gonNA say they're GonNa do there's was promised the economic boom and bitter school and and a bitter health programming Alaska which never became real. And here you know after forty years, the things that are not true. Yeah Today. Forget him the idea that drilling for more oil is gonNA. Lift up native people in Alaska is almost insulting. They've had forty years to do that. He says, and it hasn't happened. From his perspective drilling in the Arctic National. Wildlife. Refuge looks like another bad idea in which outsiders reap the rewards and the which in feel the losses. And that's what climate change looks like to him to. Clam Occurs Your happening. In We just can't sit out and talk about it. We need to do something about it. We need to do something about it. Walking Arctic village feels more like walking on a country road than walking through town other than the main drag or you can find the store. A church school houses are pretty spread out. And it's obvious that people here still rely heavily on the animals of this region to sustain themselves. Fish are laid out on drying racks next people's homes. entryways are decorated with Antlers and children have painted tributes to Caribou all over the outside wall of the store. And everywhere I went I found tiny bits of bone and teeth scattered on the ground. This place is so defined by hunting that the bodies of animals have become part of the soil itself. My Name's Sarah James, and I live in the village Alaska. And it's called shading all that means creek with a height bank. Sarah is Gideon's sister. She's in her mid seventies and she wears her long grey hair in a ponytail down her back as she leads me into her house we walked by buckets on her porch holding thick bones that were clearly part of living animal not too long ago I've been having meet the bones are stripped clean but still stained red with fresh blood. She says, they came from a Moose recently shot by a young man in the village and shot that his first Bull Moose. So he gets to distribute. Although the, which in have always hunted a variety of animals the backbone of their culture is the Caribou in fact, a central kitchen story tells of a hunter who traded part of his heart for Caribou heart. So the animals in the people would always be linked together. For many which in people, there's really no distinction between keeping the porcupine herd alive and keeping their culture alive they're completely intertwined. So the prospect of drilling in the Caribou calving grounds and disrupting the animals at a very sensitive stage in their life cycle feels deeply threatening. Some people on the pro oil side say the glitch in our this whole thing out of proportion that oil development isn't really a threat to the porcupine herd they point to pictures of Caribou, from other herds grazing next two pipelines as evidence that drilling and wildlife habitat can coexist. But even though some Caribou can adapt to industrial development, it's clear that these animals prefer habitat with no human disturbance they thrive in big wild cold landscapes and over the last twenty years Caribou herds across the polar north have faced precipitous declines. They've gone from nearly five million animals to just over two million. The causes for those declines vary, but there is one species behind them all As, we log and mine and drill and build roads further and further north and warm climate. Caribou numbers are quickly going down Sarah. Says she started hearing that the calving grounds of the porcupine Caribou herd might be open for drilling in the nineteen eighties. And so I went to my brother that time they told my brother. Come they keep killing they're gonNA do gas and oil they balm and there and he saved the Oil Company are huge. They're very huge. We can't stop a in a just us is tweet. I I. Don't think we'll get anywhere with it. Will shall see about it. I told him that in on just hit. They might be away listless work on that. He said so I I laugh. And she got to work. I was one of the tribal council. And Tribal Console Cho- Smith to deal with environment issues. So Sarah started going to meetings throughout the region learning about what was going on up on the coast and how it might affect the Caribou. She says, she definitely wasn't working alone. Lots of folks were involved including a new people who are also concerned about protecting the Caribou and their own communities. In nineteen, eighty, seven, they succeeded in getting the US and Canada. To sign an international treaty designed to protect the Porcupine Caribou herd and the language of the treaty made it clear that the animals needed to be protected both for their own sake and for the sake of the people who depend on them both nutritionally, and culturally the treaty also established the Porcupine Caribou Management Board which still exists today and is supposed to be consulted on development projects that could impact the heard. But the glitch in new the allure of the oil was GONNA continue to turn the heads of the big companies and the treaty lacked an enforcement mechanism by itself. It wasn't enough to prevent drilling on the coastal plain. So members of the New Management Board started going out to villages and talking to people they went to each village in Taco elders. What we should do and One alert Mary Kay She said, well, we should call the which. Back to their their. Ticket on from then Sarah says this idea of bringing the whole which in nation together to figure out how to respond to the threat of oil development quickly gained traction among the glitch in. So they called which earned gather hair and Arctic village June five to can maintain eight. People start coming in I. Think we have fifteen chief U. S. and Canada. and. Fifteen elders. And one. Youth. Each village. Sarah says back in what she calls bow and Arrow days the semi nomadic life of the question meant that all of the different subgroups met and mingled frequently but the colonization process had changed that and the various which in bands have become much more separate from each other. At the Nineteen eighty-eight Gathering Sarah says, they were reminded that they shared a common language and history and common concerns for the future, and it's just like a rebirth of a nation the whole. Everybody getting each other. There's some graveyard of their relatives here they want to visit. One native own media organization was allowed to film parts of the event. And? They were non which people who came to the gathering to government officials representatives from Conservation Groups and Sarah says they brought their non rich in ways of doing things with them. They came up with the agenda but. When they start the meeting. There will elders took over the meetings and say, we don't need these gender. So they tore up the agenda, it will take it from here. Whatever planned outside groups may have had the elder said no thank you. This is our gathering and we'll do it our way and then somebody presented. Coking stick. Stick with the Eagle, hit on. And then they said we'll talk with the stick and we had to be in the center of the whole community. So that's how they ran a meeting and almost everything happened in which in. Separate capital POPs up real robotic. The video doesn't give names for individual speakers, but it does provide translations and this man is saying oil burns truck and cats work in the wells drilled. The oil spreads all over the Cariboo Food Tonga Kava. Cangallo. DIJK. imitator he says, what will become of our children when the Caribou go? The story of the outside groups creating an agenda and elders promptly tossing it out I. Think this is an important detail. One of the Meta battles surrounding the fight over drilling in the refuge is who controls the narrative are pro oil groups using some nuclei people to advance their agenda, our conservation groups doing the same with a glitch in. But both of those lines of thought, give all the agency to white. People in Sarah's narrative the glitch in are the protagonists they know what they want and they make it happen. She's not describing some hapless group of people who can easily be manipulated by outsiders. And together here we're GONNA fight. In a good way. To teach. Many, white people out there who do not understand our ways we got to teach them. Sarah says, it quickly became clear that there was no disagreement among the question about the goal with they were trying to figure out was a strategy they know that they're against the oil and gas development, Hobby GonNa do it you know and then they say the only way we're GonNa win is this we do it in a good way educate the world in good way and make France because. We can't do it our service to huge. So they wrote a resolution, a short clear message saying who they were and what they wanted. It says the glitch in have a right to continue their way of life and that their culture depends on the CARIBOO. Therefore, oil and gas development should be prohibited in the Teno to area the part of Arctic national. Wildlife Refuge we're drilling has now been approved. With our signatures on I think. Of these we have. One Nation of people that are saying Lou. We mean, no, we are the Caribou people ever wasn't for the care, but we won't be here today. To take away a who you are and be proud of who you are. That's genocide. Sarah has reason to use that particularly chilling word. The United States has done this before. In the lower forty, eight many native American tribes were as tightly linked to bison as the which in Arctic, Caribou, and in the nineteenth century, the federal government subsidized the mass slaughter of the Bison herds in part as a way to starve native people and break their cultures. In other words, the destruction of the buffalo was part of the Genocide of Native Americans and Sarah and other glitch in people say there's a real danger of repeating that dark history with the Caribou. Late. we made the right decision back in nineteen eighty eight. We overcame many mini battles because all American out there along with us sport loud and clear. They don't want to gas and oil development and I believe it's GonNa. Stay that way. I believe we're going to win. The oil industry has already won a big battle just by getting drilling approved up next amy asks why they're fighting so hard to drill in the refuge. When the races on transition to renewables what do you do in the meantime? Do do you go back to you know candlesticks I don't think. So that's next on real from the Center for investigative reporting NPR ex. From. The center. For investigative reporting NPR, x this is reveal I'm outlets. We've been spending this hour in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge hearing from people who live there about what oil and gas development would mean for them. But we haven't heard from one group that has a big stake in this decision, the oil and gas industry. Here's Amy Martin with the rest of the story. We originally aired Beckham March. Karen Moriarty is the president of the Alaska or Gas Association and we're the Professional Trade Association for the Oil and Gas Industry in Alaska. So our job is to advocate on behalf of the entire industry to continue the long term viability of the industry for the state I met Karen her office. You'll hear some fans flipping on and off a bit as. We talk and she started out by explaining that even if there were a lease sale in the refuge, this year oil probably wouldn't start flowing from the Coastal Plain until the twenty thirties she said, it would take a dozen years or so to get through the lawsuits regulations and exploration process leading up to drilling. So companies that bid for the right to drill. In the refuge are betting that the demand for oil will continue far into the future. It's still going to be the majority of fuel source that supplies the Globes energy needs for the next thirty to forty years. So why wouldn't we? Then as a country want to develop in our backyard where we know we have the strictest environmental standards if you look at. All the world estimates for the next thirty years. The demand for oil does not go away. So one thing that I think I know some people would say hearing you is you know you said, why wouldn't we develop it? I think some people would say because there's lots and lots of oil available in the world already in places that are more developed or. Already have impact, but this is a place that is pretty special in the world. Why not even if we have to develop it someday, you know fifty years down the road and we're having some kind of massive crisis why not save it for then instead of going there now when it is really it's a special habitat that has a lot of wildlife in it. We have been saving it. We've been saving it for forty years already and most Americans want to keep saving it. The refuge is federal land owned by all US citizens and although a majority of alaskans support drilling in the refuge two-thirds of registered voters in the country overall oppose it according to a recent pool? So I wanted to hear Kara's best argument for why those people should change their. Minds, why should the oil industry be allowed to use public land for private gain? Why should Americans say? Yes to oil development in the refuge oil basins they peak and decline as is the nature of the business, and so you have to constantly be replacing that decline and increasing it and the potential. So really this oil is going to be available in twenty thirty two. It's not about getting the oil right now it is about having the oil for the next generation to come. So I think another big argument you just actually touched on it would just be climate change. A lot of people would say why why should we invest resources and and and basically set up the momentum toward? Getting more fossil fuels out of the ground when they're warming the planet and what what your response to that. Well I think it's very impractical to say that we're going to be without the use of fossil fuels in the next three decades because there's not enough alternative energy available and it certainly would not be affordable for consumers. It's true that there is currently not enough alternative energy to meet demand. There are a host of reasons for that. Transforming fundamental sector of the economy isn't simple, but renewables are growing fast and one of the major reasons why they haven't grown faster is the oil industry itself. Their indirect ways that the oil industry has constrained the growth of alternatives, things like tax subsidies and crowding out of competitors. But oil companies have also taken direct actions that have blocked the growth renewables including spending millions of dollars on campaigns to suppress climate science, and confuse the public about the dangers of global warming. Lately, the big oil companies have been changing their tune on that. But what they say is sometimes, very different from what they do. As just one example we can look at BP, with is a member of cares trade organization. They publicly say they support putting a price on carbon to help reduce emissions but in two thousand, eighteen be peace spent more than ten million dollars to help feed a carbon pricing ballot initiative in the state of. Washington. Even. So Kara says all companies are helping to develop new greener technologies. And the reality is my very member. Companies globally are the companies investing in the technology to help with carbon capture with switching from gas stations to electrical stations for cars were we're not bad and we're not bad for wanting to continue to meet the global demand for the use of oil and gas, and so you know as we continue to develop, we know that we're going to continue to improve. Bird in two, thousand, eighteen, the world's biggest oil and gas companies together spent around one percent of their budgets on clean energy. That's not nothing but many citizens say the oil industry is still doing a lot more to hurt the climate then to help it. So they've been using new tool pressuring banks not to invest in oil development and that pressure has yielded some results the. European Investment Bank has pledged to end financing for all fossil fuel projects after twenty, twenty, one and several other international banks have specifically called out the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as a place where they will not invest in oil and gas in two thousand nineteen. The first US bank joined the club Goldman. Sachs announced they will not finance any new drilling or oil exploration in the Arctic. It's unclear if or how much all of this might affect the outcome of a lease sale, but the public opposition combined with the relatively low price of oil right now in the high cost of extraction in this remote area, make drilling in the refuge or riskier proposition than most. But there could be a less obvious prize. Some companies hope to claim. Honestly, there's probably a lot more gas in the coastal plain than there is oil I mean, we have hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas on the North Slope. If you look globally, natural gas is the real story of energy development in the Arctic. The gas industry is booming in the Russian north and like Cara said, the North Slope of Alaska has an enormous natural gas reserves to. The problem in Alaska though is transportation attempts to build a gas pipeline similar to the oil pipeline that cuts through the state have gone nowhere so far but oil and gas executives must be casting their eyes longingly on all that untapped gas in the refuge. And even though both the oil and gas markets are considered to be a state of oversupply right now. Cara. Says we have to keep opening up new areas for drilling. What we have today will not be enough to supply. The next thirty to forty years. So we have to add resources as we continue this transition to other sources of energy even with oil fifty, six dollars a barrel who knows what oil prices to be A. I mean the discoveries in Texas and break I mean. But but the discoveries in Texas are still not going to help meet the demand thirty to forty years from now. So in the end, you kind of need it all you have to be able to to add to. The reserves. I, you tried to explain. I think that that feeling that you know in the end, we are going to need it all i. mean that's kind of the crux of it is that there are a lot of people like no. Actually the truth of it is we have to stop before we get it all. But but. But but but my answer, my question back to them is what are you GonNa do? If you stop and you know that the alternative energy isn't GonNa. Be there. What do you do in the meantime? Do you go back to. You. Know candlesticks don't think so. But that dodges the question almost everyone recognizes a transition is necessary here that we can't just stop all use of fossil fuels tomorrow and go back to candlesticks as Cara says. Where the real debate lies is over when and how and how fast we're going to make the transition. That's where the question emerges about opening up new fields especially in pristine wilderness areas. Best in the refuge these arguments feel a world away. It's not. That important to me. To. Have Money I guess. I'm sitting next to Vebjorn is very tan in his boat again, heading out from Cocteau Vic to visit the coastal plain. And I don't think we should. We should sacrifice our land that makes us who we are. Just, so We can have a stake in the industry that's alternately gonNA lose I think. I. Don't think we should sacrifice what we are just so. They can drill oil. Bjorn, lands the boat and we walk around a little bit on the Tundra. It's wet in green with little creeks cutting down to the beach. A Hawk covers in the distance, flapping its wings and staring into the grass with hunters intense focus. Some supporters of drilling the refuge including many leading politicians have tried to devalue this place in an attempt to persuade others not to protect it. Laid the coastal plain as ugly unimportant a wasteland. But vebjorn and many other people who live here people on both sides of the debate. This place is precious. And Bjorn says if we can't see that and feel it. Maybe, that says more about us than it does about this place. Think people say get out. Good for people to be out on the land. Think, it's important to. Live outside your house. Just be locked up inside. Being with Vebjorn. Refuge made me think of a poem by Wendell Berry it's called how to be a poet and there are these three lines in the middle the go like this. There No. On sacred places, there are only sacred places and desecrated places. It's it's beautiful in its own way. It's it's not as. It's not like a beautiful mountain. You could say it strikingly empty right now. It's it's beautiful in a different way. What happens next could depend on the outcome of the presidential election. Joe Biden is expected to block arctic drilling if he's elected. But if the LI sales to oil companies go through before the election, it doesn't matter who wins or loses once the sales go through, it would be difficult to prevent future drilling. We WanNA thank Amy Martin and Nick Motte and the whole team at threshold for their work. On this week show their podcast tackles one pressing environmental issue each season. The third season of threshold is all about the refuge I highly recommend you check it out at threshold podcast, dot org or wherever you get your podcast. Producer for this week, show was Catholics cousy. The music in this hour was composed by Travis Joost support for reveals provided by the reason Dave Logan Foundation the John D and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation before foundation the Housing Science Foundation, the Democracy Fund and the Ethics and Excellence in Journalism Foundation reveal is a CO production of the Center for Investigative Reporting Impe are x amount. Let's and remember there is always more to the story.
MTTA 102: Marc Cameron
"You're listening to me to the thriller author. The podcast right interview writers of mysteries. Thrillers Suspense Books I'm host Alan Peterson. And this is episode number one hundred and two in this episode of the podcast be meeting Mark Cameron who is the author of the New York Times. bestselling Jarkko Quinn Thriller Series his short stories have appeared in the Saturday Evening Post and Boys Life Magazine Two Thousand Sixteen. He was chosen to continue the Tom Clancy. Clancy Jack Ryan Campus Thriller Series Tom Clancy Code of honor was the latest book he released in that series, which was opposed in November of two thousand and Nineteen and the Twentieth Jack. Ryan novel is scheduled to be published. This November written by Marquette his latest novel Stone Cross was published in March and it's an action, packed crime thriller, and the Second Book in his artists. Cutter series. A Mark Cameron has a fascinating background having. Having retired as chief deputy US Marshal, who spent nearly thirty years in line for his assignments have taken him from Alaska to Manhattan candidate to Mexico dozens of points in between. Here's a second degree. Black Bulletin Jitsu and is a certified scuba diver and man tracking instructor native of Texas. You know those in Alaska where he writes. His action packed books had a great time with mark about his background with the US marshals, and yes I. I did ask him about the accuracy of the great us marshal character so wonderfully by Tommy. Lee Jones in the fugitive, one of my favorite movies I also asked him about the pressure of carrying on the Jack Ryan character, created by Tom Clancy and a whole lot more, so we'll be listening to that interview coming up here in just a moment I i WanNa talk about masterclass that keep putting out some amazing online courses. Right now is over eighty courses of from incredible minds out there from the movies, television sports music fashion, culinary world you can watch thousands of lessons from the best that they share their stories. Skills shortcuts failures and successes and fans of the thriller mystery Genre. You can check out the masterclass from Dan Brown, James Patterson and David Balducci. I find this to be a spiring and very helpful in my own writing endeavors and. And if you sign up, you see my link. Thrilling reads dot Com for slash masterclass. You'll be helping supporting this podcast and so I. Appreciate you checking it out. Okay, so here is my interview with them. Are Cameron Pie everybody thanks for tuning in to meet the thriller author and Have Mark Cameron on Zoom. How are you doing mark? You're doing very well. Thank you so much for being on the PODCAST. Hopefully With the family during this pandemic times, everyone's okay. I? We're doing greater. Have found that I probably enjoy self-isolation more than I should. Won't. Yeah, that has been the hasn't something that I've enjoyed as well to buy my wife's. Working from home, so it's a big change for her. Doing well with it. Here I'm a big Fan of your book. Have read the The your check Ryan Books. That will get into that a little bit later here at the. Fascinated to find out that you spent thirty years enforcement and you retired as a chief deputy us. Marshal were your dreaming of being a writer even back then we were tracking down fugitives. I knew when I was a little boy that I wanted to be deputy. US Marshal wanted to be a a writer I didn't well I. Knew I wanted to be a police work, and then as I got older and started. Especially when I got into police work as a patrol officer in Texas and worked with different agencies. I knew then. Marshall Service was. Going to be the best job for me, you know hunting hunting, bad guys. So but I but I knew all along when I was a mouse newlywed I. Before we were married I, told my wife that I wanna be a novelist and she. Heard that have known me of her story, but our first year of marriage. She bought me a a Smith Corona electric typewriter a bulletproof vest because they didn't buy poorest back then, so she was very supportive early on. That's awesome of could do both jobs. But mostly I just got a lot of rejection letters for years, but they just enjoyed writing so I kept it up. Turned out after twenty years of rejection letters. So, ask you to my favorite movies. If I get have been asked this before, but one of my favorite movies fugitives realistic. Was that left Emily Jones. In some ways, it was very realistic in other ways, not so much I, mean the the fact that. The Tommy Lee Jones Kinda comes onto the scene and takes over the investigation and all of that that doesn't happen. We realize as deputy US marshals in the we can't get by without can't George Job without the assistance teamwork of the state and local agencies that we work with alongside, but the probably the most the truest most telling part of that whole movie is the line that everybody remembers probably where. Harrison. Ford's about to to jump. You stand in the mouth of that dam and he got his hands up entirely. Jones's drawn down on him and. Harrison Ford Character said Richard Kimble says I didn't kill my wife and. What Tommy Lee Jones says he said debris Gerard says I. Don't care. That's Kinda the way we have to be. Our job is to. Look at the name on that warrant and go after them, and we don't decide guilt or innocence. We'd decide if that person needs to be back before the judge her back in jail, and so we don't really look at the. You know why where when that sort of thing we're focused. On the on the WHO. That the courts and everything else do do it their. Job Is back right so that so in some ways it's really the there worsened some. Deputies marshalls at acted as consultants on that, so the badges were right the gun you know the the Glock survey carried will were correct for the agency but You know it's Hollywood yet. He gave me a little exciting. So, when when we when we finally get your first book published, one was that. I went to A. Had A couple published. Locally in Alaska and then I By local poacher here in I I. Joined the western writers of America and I had a Western that I'd written that I really liked the contempt well, not contemporary like in the mid nineteen hundreds, not No, not an old time. Shootouts on the street western, but a some said in North Idaho. We were living in North Idaho at the time kind of by the Canadian border and. My written a Western. That I liked, and so I went to this conference in Helena Montana and pitched it and. Ended up. Selling a Western under the pen name of Mark Henry so couple of those westerns and ghost-wrote wrote for another Western author that you know where my name didn't appear on the cover, and then eventually switched over to. Thrillers which is what I you know, law enforcement, military style thrillers, which is when I kind of set out to ride in the first place, but I, Think. It was probably two thousand, three, two thousand six something like I guess he doesn't six when I actually got. Book published in. Twenty eleven when I published my first thriller. First Year Co Quinn's roller. You offended the thrillers through January before you. Start to write them. You know. I started reading when I was a hit. You know in in in police work, I. You know I read a lot of Joseph. Lombardo liked crime novels I I started reading. Tom Clancy when I was you know when he first put out on parole. Tober so in fact I was a rookie police officer at the time going through the police candy. So I followed clancy as I grew up in the Marshall Service I remember been going to advance school, and by the sum of all fears in paperback. And none of those in the early Nineties and eight ninety four somebody on a five camera why I came back, but I bought the paperback and I accidentally left it in the back of my. Clancy and when I off claims so I had to go buy it again and then when I we we rob's on a protected detail. Actually that's what it was. It wasn't a training as protective detail in new. York and I left the. Plane seat, and then I got off one end of the. command post and another we I was assigned to another agency in a special. This other agency picked up, started reading it, and so I went bought another one, so I ended up buying soccer's three times just to get it finished so. yeah I followed through. You know lot of spiced-up. I really enjoy I enjoyed can follow it and a lot of his World War Two. Stuff I. I Like Frederick foreside and yeah. I I, love really any kind of well written book whether it's thriller. or Whatever I just enjoy, I enjoy literature as so your your latest book is stone. Crashes Up is available now is Polish March thirty first, and that's the second book and the Ad Our Lisa Cutter series. Can you tell that book? Sure I think. If I were to say. So far including my ghost-wrote written work written twenty one books, and out of all those twenty one novels. Stone Crosses. The most has the most of me in it I. Think I did a lot of work with the US Marshal Service out in Bush Alaska in the rural areas that are not connected to the road system me. You have to take a plane to get their vote. and. The vast majority of the land in Alaska's only reachable that way and so. and the native peoples out there that you can attack in Athabasca in people's I've got friends that. I met while I was with Marshall Service that have remained my friends. I've been retired almost seven years now, so I always wanted to tell a bit of their story in stone crosses the. Official village, but based on some of the villages that I've spent time in house with marshals working alongside in a partnership troopers. This is a story that I wanted to tell a long time ago, but I was not a position to ride it and. Things have gotten. Low I've gotten a little. Better seat at the table as a writer so I, decide or more what I wanted to write stone crosses Definitely? Are All my I mean I like my books. Myself or I wouldn't write him out stories, but stone crosses my personal favorite. Going to stay with ninety. Three that. The cutter is a US. Marcin, Alaska, in your special, Alaska a little semi autobiographical a little bit. You know you know. I think artists cutters cooler than I am I'm I'm? More like the the chief that stays in the office. But I did when I first moved to Alaska. That's I was assigned to the Alaska fugitive task worst, which is now that is run by a supervisor when I moved to Alaska. We affectionately call it a PhD of PLANO deputy how I didn't have any supervisory roles, but I I was put the task force. And also the deputy in charge of that task force. By before it was a supervisor running it so I got that same experience in got to travel around the state. Do some pretty neat investigations. Tracking. A The before stone cross down in. On Principles Island, which is I can't remember like third largest island in the United States, but it's down kind of close to catch. Can Juneau and southeast panel are the horrible asker, but is quite remote of. You know you have to take a ferry or an airplane to get there, and it's a lot of roads, and it's you know it's got A. Couple of the! Larger towns and A lot of smaller villages, as well native villages, and we tracked a guy we were called down there guide a chopped another man with a splitting Maul, and then fled into the woods. About twenty. Almost twenty years ago, the tracking the fugitive task force man in the I was A. Mantra occur at the time for the district of. The technical tracking unit, so they called us down there some of the task force members, and then me as a tracker. We track this guy and I just remember thinking. What a great setting for a book and the neo! The I wasn't writing as much of the time because I was so caught up in my Marshall Service career, but I always been writing. And you know tracking this guy. Though is suspected of a homicide through the these old growth forests that looked like something out of the token movie, No moss and darkness, and the little bit of rainfall and above, but it didn't even make it to the ground because the campus of thick. Just I so I really kind of set these books then twenty years ago, and then came back and wrote open carry, which is set in that same place in Arles. Cutters just sort of A. Amalgam of the great men and women. I've met over the years in law enforcement tour the. Hero archetypes that I've been able to work with. So it's been fun. Yes, if they I've seen a Lotta new reviews as a dimension, you know a lot of actions, great thrillers, but then also a lot about how you bring the the Alaskan wilderness to life which I think's. Cool. With good. I'm glad to hear it. I feel like Alaska is a character in the books Alaska's so big. I mean I wanted to get to Alaska since I was a little boy. I grew up in Texas and I remember going to a State Fair in Dallas and. Getting A. Big Map of Canada Alaska. Actually it was like Yukon British Columbia, Yukon and Alaska. They had some tourism put booths there and going home with my mom was probably nine or ten and going home. My mom and kind of plan in the big trip up there, we never went, but I read everything I could about it and just kind of slowly worked my way north. You know in my career, so I had actually applied with the North Slope Borough Police Department. from I was working with the Police Department Texas not applied with North Slope Borough which handles top third of Alaska's one big community at you made a borough. You'd county in the lower forty eight. There one police are not applied with them was in the middle of that process when the Marshall Service hired me, and so I kind of sidestepped over the Marshall Service for seven years before I was able to transfer to Alaska Lousy always. Had Alaska A. In your on your in your mind to out, who is a? We joke that you. Step out of the RV into the food chain up here. It's still. and. It's one of the few places that you have to. You know the smart thing to. Actually you have a need to carry a sidearm when you go out. In the woods I mainly A. Carried one foot thirty years now, anyway thirty five years. But Here it's. Truly a good thing to to. You're not the top of the food chain. Yeah, that's. The last the last American frontier. Really. Over haven't made up to yet, but I'll have to make one of these one of these years. Points very good grief. I, really enjoyed your. First came. Out About you through your Jack, Ryan Books I. Read Quote of Honor and. It was a great book with L.. Dollars stuff. You know those kind of a point of going on in the last few years. Well, what would that whole process I mean? You said he'd like. You were dump clancy fan before. I can't even imagine what it would be to step in and pick up that mantle. How did that whole workout for you today approach? You're like addition, or how does that work? That's a good question it's it's It's terrifying in. It's not something that you really you apply. For. I had I had zero idea that I was being considered I was fortunate enough to meet mark, grainy, who wrote them before I did? At Thriller Fist I mean not throw fest that about Yukon Writers Conference in Long Beach and met him there and we. became acquainted and chatted, and then through subsequent Bausch cons thriller Fest where got to know one another better had dinner you times my wife, and I had dinner with him and his wife. You know became friends over the years, and I can't remember which one it was but I think it was new. Orleans, he, we were chatting, and he said I had a new Jerko. That was in Jerko Quinn when reading thriller series that I had it was in the editorial process, and he's approached me, said Hey, do you want me to give you a cover blurb? And that's a big deal in the writing world and I I hate to ask other authors for blurbs. Quotes I just hate because I know. How busy everybody is I I'm happy to give. Quotes to people. You know that I've met in I. have been very fortunate that. Brad Thor and CJ box in March. Grainy given me. and. You know cover quotes in Steve. Berry is giving me one and so I, but I the only people I've ever asked have been Brad Thor in CJ box and I was fortunate they did so mark offered without being asked, and he's a top tier rider, and I was the only fantastic so semi Sydney, the PDF. I sent him the PDF of field of fire, which was the. The? Jericho to to Jericho's ago so number eight I think. And unbeknownst to me. He was thinking about stepping away from the Tom Clancy Jack Ryan that he was doing because he had done seven. And he just forwarded field the fire onto Tomko and editor and. So then Tom read it in I guess. He liked it enough to approach my agent Robin Andrew and I was down in Florida with my wife, doing some research on the first artist cutter novel and Because I was going to be doing a Jericho in a cutter and Derek Cutter. And my agent, Carl means good they want to. They want the. They want to hire you to do the next Jack Ryan, so. I was nearly filled down. My wife has a picture of She saw me talking to Robbins knew. It was my agent, and for some reason I thought it was having a heart attack or what, but she. She snapped a photo of it. So there's this. It looks like somebody's died or something. There's kind of grief stricken picture of me standing in the breeze on the beach in Manasota key. Florida. Talking about getting the client. gig I looked pretty sick. My stomach, but I was I was terrified, absolutely terrified, but happy. Yeah, I could imagine the excitement, but then the fear. Yeah. As a matter of fact today I. Just just heard that the news is out. Don. Bentley is going to be doing the hero to a fantastic book called without sanction that he's going to be doing the. Jack Ryan Junior series. He's taken over for Mike Madden. WHO's also friend of mine, so Mike stepping away to work on some other projects. Going to be taken over though so he's former. FBI, so I'm real forward to work with on on you know just. We don't really work together on the books, but we alternate. He does a Jack Crime January, and I'll do a jack ride senior so early. Great, so I know he's probably going through the same. Agonizing! Terror you know you have to. You have to have some Huber's to just sit down and write and think anybody wants to read your stuff, but it's still you know you're a writer. It's a IT'S A. Two edged sword you. Want to push out your work, and then you're terrified. People are going to. Discover that you're. Yeah, that really has like a little bit disturbed in that way. Typical Writers Brian here read this. It's great horrible. Give back no problem to. Or like your the end. The Meyer would or read your book and you cringe, but you want. Exactly, I think there's a there's a lot of writers have that. You know. Imposter Syndrome were just I'm constantly worried. Whenever my editor agent calls me. I'm worried they're going to say OH, man! We thought you were somebody else. We've been. We've been wasting my time with you on for seventeen years for. One hundred. Thriller Writers So far for this podcast and that comes with a lot so. All different levels so. Very common. We'll see three Tom Clancy through the Jack Ryan books out now right and I believe in fourth November yeah yeah. I'm working on it now. Working really neck deep in now. I've finished the third cutter and it's in editorial. Process we. My wife and I go to where Tonga. For a couple of months until I finished, the third artless cutter is called bone rattle. It's being worked on to the copy editing process now, so I've been since February I've been working on. January working on the next My daily my fourth. Jack, Ryan novel, so we're. At one more, I have a contract for two more. We'll see of Jack Ryan's. ULA, so you'll only worked on one one book at a time like you work in an object. Ryan and you'll go to your one of your series. Are Deed Correct Kim, Yep Yeah As far as the meat of the project I do into books a year. They always overlap so. I'm working on this in it. Normally in in, were it not for the pandemic I'd be out. On, you know. TRYING TO GET A. Aboard a fast attack sub to interview some people and I had some folks may with the icebreakers, interviews and. Different things that I was going to be. Utilizing the book now there's a lot of phone calls and. Putting yourself through derided the Tom Clancy Jack Ryan novel is really like put yourself through a couple of semesters of. Nuclear physics. Geopolitical conflict and whatnot so. They're. Just, a lot of reading and studying interviewing which I enjoy I just absolutely. Love that normally. There's a lot of traveling, so show for Code of honor owes able to fly on. You know B twenty two ospreys so when I was. When I you know, sail past there. I go on an aircraft carrier, but we we. Were on smaller vessels WOULDA gone aircraft carrier. We just ran out of time but Just able to talk to a Lotta. Soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, coast guardsmen, it's it and build a chat with the UN when you're able to sit down and. Actually worked out in Coronado with the. Like forty minutes of hell, week with some. Seals Yellen Addison. The. The experiences do US stuff like that. Just really make it so that. When I'm able to when I'm when I get to write about how the opportunity to write about a let's Say v twenty two. OSPREY FLIGHT THAN I. Can call up this young captain that I know and say hey, tell me about what it feels like to when you're leaving the deck, tell me about what what you say. Tell me about so I just really. That's to me. That's the that's the absolute best part of writing these Tom. Clancy's as the doors it opens, and the people unable to meet and There's so much crap going on in the world right now, but clinically and medically. There's nothing that boys me up more than I can talk to some of our. Young troops in and listen to how intelligent they are in. You know well read critical thinkers and pretty amazing young people in that. Let's let's That gives me hope because I young. You know young grandchildren. Adult children that are. You know. In, the workforce and I like to see that our world in in good hands and. So now watch the news I get depressed when I talked to the real. People are on the front lines ago. Okay not so bad as good. It's really fantastic folks. Yeah absolutely that's. I think in. Frontline type. Pete, bombing all the work that day and It's just A. Kind of restores hope and humanity like you. Watch the news. Exactly, a Make. Our own is fiction writers. Exactly. So, yeah, so that was fascinated about the research because I was going to ask you about that. Because Tom Clancy's books are known for the meticulous research, so yeah, it's interesting to see that the he had to step into that world. Yeah! It's been. It's been really nice when I try to researching right what I know and. You'll be in federal law. Enforcement I very unfortunate to have plenty of contacts around. The countries are in all branches. You know the. FBI Secret Service. The State Department the Agency. You know all sorts of things, so it's I have lots of contact so I can. Draw from them and then. Being in my own share of. Human conflict. BEING AROUND FIREARMS FOR My whole life tenant that part of it comes pretty. Comes pretty smoothly for me I. really enjoy writing. Fight scenes have been martial arts for a number of years and I've really dear friends more like a brother that he's a test on and Ju Jitsu just got awarded tints. Degree, which is about is, you can go. And basically they confer on the right, has its own school and you know? Line of teachings. So! He was my partner with a Marshall Service numbers and tie Cunningham's his name off so whenever I ride a bike scene i. I generally am on the phone with tire, and in past that he lives down in Southeast Alaska and. In past as have been able to go down to visit with them and walk through some things and we, you know what I mean I I have some. Some. Fairly of you know indepth experience with martial arts, but he's. Vastly, pass me when it comes to that and so It's really fun for me I. Just Love Writing Fight Scenes and gun scenes and That sort of thing those are sort of the bread and butter of the. Of the books. Interspersed with the the people side of things and was ready for you like when you were. You're working on a project. You have like recount goals if to reach or vs. All right everywhere, right wherever I am. I had college professor that told me. My freshman year with you. You'll never amount to your full potential unless you. Learn to use those little fifteen minute segments of your life that everybody else wastes. Until I I carry a notepad around me. If I've got some downtime, I try very hard not to get on twitter, angry birds, or whatever and try to you know. Make notes in a look at people around me. Observe. So. That's what I was gonNA. Say earlier that as far as working on one project at a time. I am working on the clancy now, but at some point, but then I'm doing an interview with you I. Cross Right So. Even though I'm in the middle of the meat of the classic project. Then, I'm still. Out, at some point here in the next few weeks, I'll get the copy at its back for bone rattle, which is the third cutter in all have to step away from the clancy for a week. Go back over the. You know those copy edited Cindy my rights and things like that, but even then the books written, and I'm doing rewrites, even though by Venom so in-depth with the clancy that I won't be able to stay away from it I just. Enjoy it so. I tried to get two thousand words a day. But some days I'll get a thousand and do the rest of just. Research Typical Writing Day for me is get up and answered emails and. start writing and get five or six hundred words done, and then I'll get to the part where I. Think I might need to go. Read a bit or watch some youtube videos or talked to someone about this area so i. get in my head. All. Try not spend more than our doing that, and then I'll jump back and write some more than. When we were, we were writing at first. I say we because my wife really helps me a ton with research and editing, and all that we had gone to win had powered empire was. Since it was my first clancy I was sending them a few chapters of time like now just. Books Done I. Send it in back then. That had my other books, but I was an unknown quantity is for the. Clancy ride for them so I was submitting like eight or ten chapters at a time. And, as I said, Kinda terrified, so my wife and I had already planned his trip to in the Cook Islands, which is out in the middle of. The South Pacific down by Fiji and Tahiti. Kinda in between. And A. It's a small island. About forty five minutes to drive around, it's. Pretty sparsely populated got great friends there, so we were in a little bungalow and I get in the morning, and I are right right right right right for about. Try to get the bones of a chapter done and then I would read. A paperback the Hammock on the beach and read a paper about clancy in I would have lunch after lunch. I would study much stuff that I knew I needed to write about. You know different research I brought with me and the rights more than my wife would read to me. I was fall asleep from a different clancy, and so we we really in that. We stayed there at that point. I think we stayed almost three months and. We put ourselves through kind of A. Clancy University in read much every. Every original legacy, Tom Clancy and then several of Mark's while I was there to give myself up to speed while I was writing. Says Writing Retreats Lesha the Tom Clancy University. Yeah exactly exactly. It will always be very fond memory because we were so immersed in it. I mean there was just you could. I went to sleep. Listen to. My wife read to think the Latte. As the last month or shoes read me commander in chief which is Martin Rainey's. Clancy, so I can kind of. Get back up to speed with where this series is at now and what it used to write to use a word, some other software program. Word I've been thinking about going to Scrivner I've dabbled in it but I'm so you know I I? Mean I type the end on one book and the next morning? It's once upon a time or the next one until I. I really don't have time to. I haven't taken the time to learn a new. Software so I write word and I I write a good deal of the. Of the original script. especially the notes and plotting. I'm a pretty intensive plotter in in Longhand in either pencil or or Fountain? Like right now I'm at my desk I've got three big coffee mugs full of. Palomino buckling six. Oh two pencils that are just probably a hundred and fifty of 'em here that I worked my way through and these yellow pads and Taking notes that he's like the way pencils feel and plus I. I like the way that your brain works when you know, you can't cut and paste when you really writing and. Clay becomes to to my mind. I don't know it's just different way of thinking. It becomes fun in Art Institute of the drudgery so I'd say right quite a bit of the first draft. Maybe a third of the first draft will be in Pencil. It which means that by the time it's on the computer. It's the second draft already. Yes. There's step. While, so yeah, that's awesome, so m well. I'm not that the keeping too much longer before I. Let you go question I always ask. Sparring writers the into this the advice. Well I'd say. Listen to podcasts like this I. Mean Sounds Self serving listening to how the other writers do it, and if when I give anybody advice. I'm I'm using my own experience and. Much of my success, other than avenue. Sitting down actually writing the book. Has Come from meeting other writers and going to conferences and You know, it's just so difficult now, because so many people are writing. I mean everybody's got a laptop and a story to tell canal be a writer, and so that's great for riders, but it's really difficult for people. Riders at wanted to be published because we're everywhere. You know it's a truly truly a buyer's market from the publishers, and so you have to do something to stand apart in the way to do that is to meet editors, agents, and other writers have introduce you not. Not In, a conniving planned way, but just. Go be a good person and help out, and you know help hand out the. The. Amenity bags and backpacks at Mount Yukon Thriller Fast or whatever then you start, people start to get to know you as a person. And somebody that because it's a business and then a editor agent. Or an agent or are more likely to say. I really like to work with him or her. You know they they seem. They seem. Easy going. And if you've got ten people that can write a decent story. But. Two of them seem like. Interesting squared away folks. WHO THEY GONNA choose also. On the publishing side. That's the that would be my advice right well, thank you so much, Mike for be being on the podcast as a real pleasure talking to you and learning more about your work and and your background. Thank you appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks for listening to the third author podcast. BE SURE TO VISIT AUTHORS DOT COM to join the conversation access the show notes and discover great thrilling read if you'd rather podcast, left for you to subscribe. Rate and give a review no to it wherever it is. You're listening to this podcast. I to his apple podcast, Google, podcast stitcher tune spotify. However, it is at your I. Listen To this right now. I would appreciate it and please check out my own thriller novels over at my work site at Alan Peterson Dot Com until next time.
"What up what up. What up you tuned into. The Jose Morale is podcasts. Where we talk sports business and everything in between I'm your host. Jose Morales and where my boxing academy join me in the ring? Today is just in buckles. Say we'll sub. Just I got. I gotTa Say I like Your Studio. You do yeah. This is a nice studio boxing ring. It's Amazing Yeah. Thank you brother. That's a true true. Boxing coach had the studio in the ring. Yeah exactly so. This is what I wanted. A I kind of want to add that. I WanNa do it in the gym. That feel to it. June in the studio real exactly I noticed when I came in your gymnasts smelt very pleasant and clean. Yeah got gotTa take my nephew Eric for them and HE GETS DOWN AT CLEANING. Had No but yeah. We WanNa make sure sanitized pushy. During these times right that's a hot right now. I see a lot of 'em may coaches and stuff. They're like cleaning the gloves. I'm saying she already been doing. You should have already been doing that and cleaning gloves. A not. Stop the corona virus. You know what I mean. The coronavirus did not sneak in your building and getting the gloves like in the last week. It's just now getting to America. People are panicking. They're freaking out about. It's Kinda stayed out of it. I was up on the mountain the other day. I kind of stay out of the the cursing. But yesterday I take the day off and I looked at the news and I read everything about it. And it's quite the panic man you could. You could tell by going to the stores and everything they're tripping out you know the big lots across from me. I haven't noticed any effect. There's plenty of toilet paper. Nobody's in there like well. Actually there's there's a few people in there but it's not it's never packed it's still not packed and it seems exactly the same you know so if people need toilet paper big big lots of that because I got everything. I need there today. Trying to find something. I can't find shit no way. Yeah I've been costco. I went to two different Costco's final. Cosco is the epicenter in a panic. Everyone goes to Costco. Yeah stay the heck out of Costco. Big Lock Business. Big Lutz Lutz. Try Big Lots. And I was just telling you about what about outdoors you like so much maritime. I see your story or something. This guy's outdoors on someone from Alaska. That's it is that what caused this started or what caused it exactly. I'm a practice environment. You know what I mean. Yeah so last. You step outside. And there's the northern lights you know. This is a once in a lifetime kind of thing. People see the Japanese have the most amazing regard for Alaska. There's a hot springs in my hometown that there's all. The signs are in Japanese because Japanese. People up there because in Japan. If you're conceived under the northern lights you'll live a blessed life that's what they think so they go there and they start doing their thing. You know in the spring. It's like hey dude everyone to do on your own time. Leave the hot spring alone. Don't get too close in there. You know need a sanitary environment like we're talking about You know that that's actually believe you know it's it's funny Alaska's. The only place has been invaded in America since the war of eighteen twelve and it was invaded by the Japanese. And the Aleutians Eskimos and Alaska. They they look like Japanese people. So it's kind of interesting. There's a weird connection there. So how did you end up in Alaska. You're you. I was born their family and everything? Because you're Filipino right. Yeah I'm half my mom. My mom is Filipino. Is Dan on? Your and my dad is a cowboy from Wyoming. Okay so how do they end? Hotted Alaska combined your family. You were born there. My Dad went up there To work on the pipeline which is eight hundred mile oil pipeline from prudhoe Bay that spans the entire the entire state. The State is eight hundred miles from the Arctic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean and pipeline. Goes all the way down from the top and it was one of the most amazing engineering projects. The world has ever seen to span this State because it's an Arctic frontier. Your I mean it's it can be in my hometown fairbanks which is it has the largest temperature swing of any city in the world is considered a city that has thirty thousand people actually live north of that in Fox Alaska further north so all the people stopped at Fairbanks and then my dad ended up settling ten miles north in a place called Fox and fairbanks known as the gateway to the Arctic so fairbanks last stop then you have the Arctic and the Arctic Ocean and from there. It's ice until the North Pole. You know what I mean. And there's plenty is up there. A lot of people think that The polar bears are out there. Johnny but the North Police frozen year round still is and the The difference ice per year is pretty crazy. So it's very hard to track especially since we have information on the ice cap for the last thirty years. You know what I mean. So it's very hard to predict the state of it because it's such variable of the amount of ice each year that freezes up there but anyways Fairbanks has the largest temperature swing of any city in the world. Going from ninety eight degrees in the summer sometimes ninety six degrees in the summer to sixty below in the wintertime. You know so that. That's quite the swing you know thing. One time. I was working on the north slope in the oilfield. I flew to Hawaii and I went from Seventy seven below was I work day. In seventy seven below. It's not seventy seven below ambient where that seventy seven below with the wind. Chill so I remember. It was thirty below ambient. We had to shut down the crane. We weren't allowed to use a crane because at thirty below steal can break like glass. There's all kinds of weird things happened at thirty below too heavy equipment so for safety reasons. We turn can use the crane. The wind was blowing. It was it was at least thirty below and the wind caused it to seventy seven below. So if you're standing behind a windbreak it's thirty below but did you step in the wind. The Wind cosby seventy seven below. And that's what we're really frostbite. You and I worked a day in that and then I for my time offer my job. I flew to Hawaii and I went to it was like eighty seven degrees so I went from seventy seven below two hundred eighty seven degrees over one hundred degree temperature swing in a plane ride. You know it's interesting. It's just a very interesting place. It's like the last if you think about the history of America and westward expansion and California us here. Starting the East Coast. The craziest people came to the West Coast. You know what I mean. Searching for gold and land and settling and the craziest people when all the way west and even crazier people went north as far as they could go and they stopped at Fairbanks then my dad and my mom. They settled in Fox which is ten miles north. So it's interesting. It's interesting growing up living there and then living in Sacramento the capital city the liberal capital of the world right here is Sacramento the California's the biggest fifth biggest economy in the world as a state. You know America being the number one number two but as a state inside the economy. California's number five. It's more than Canada Australia. They're seven or eight or whatever so California in itself is making that much money and we're in the capital city of the richest state in the richest country in the world. So it's quite quite the difference from going from a real frontier life to the life of luxury as they say you know seeing all the first world problems that happened down here. I've talked to people that have been to every state in the US and most people want to to people that did that told me. Alaska the most beautiful win at all. Really Yeah they both have different times. Didn't even know each other. They recur collaborative behind him. And they both told me Alaska's the most beautiful one at all the states loan so fun fact anyways. What brought you to sack. How does sacrifice COME SACRAMENTO COME BOWEL WIFE SACRAMENTO? Why did you stay here? Were so me? And My Buddy. We started fighting. Mma He's now trooper the year Aska. He joined the state troopers and state troopers. Like the Special Forces of COPS. You know But we start fighting together in in a show called. Afc Alaska Fighting Championship and We were both actually working on the north slope at the time he was working for. Bp British Petroleum as for nor con as a pipe fitter a union pipe fitter and. He was He ran the facility. You know what I mean. He'd come in read monitors and he's a petroleum engineering degree. I was installing pipe. You know like we were flying piping and installing it and putting oil wells well so a drill rig would come by and drill a well and we would connect that well to the facility like we would run the pipe and we also do special price. Our Company we're the only union contractor up their local three seventy-five Alaska Pipe fitters control all the pipelines in the state seven ninety. Eight's the big union down here and they are always sending guys up the best weather they have of the contiguous United States lower forty-eight get sent up to Alaska and they hope to work for three seventy five because it's the most stringent welding standards in the world. Because it's under crude oil. You know what I mean is getting pumped through the stuff but anyways we were both working up there and we decided to fight. We were both boxing. He was actually the the fairbanks tough man. Champion firm exhausts. Get tough man champion. He would beat the crap out. I mean it was Is also smokers. But it was professional. He'd be getting paid five hundred bucks or thousand bucks. This is twenty years ago son out. These shows with two thousand five hundred people at the dog. Mushers Hall and at the Carlson Center but he was fighting in those and I was amateur. Boxing and I was the best amateur boxing the state because I was the only guy that showed up one year. It's like they didn't have. The State may tell my fighters to this day. Showing up is ninety. Nine percent of it sewn up his ninety nine percent of it. If you don't come to train you're not gonna get a good workout. You can sit there and say I need to hit miss to do this or show up at the gym and work all toiling. All work is a righteous task if you work hard there's good results but right now period labor labor is is something that our society today has. Just I don't know completely disrespected. They think for you to be Have Status in in modern American. You have to be behind the computer. You know like some point. Dexter thinking of something compared to someone who puts in cabinet put in cabinets. Have Fun doing that. Make that square level perfect and where you can sell this to Eddie Murphy. I'm trying to think of a celebrity. But somebody somebody who people say you go the Sacramento Connection? Right there. You know But having that kind of quality and standard to that craftsmanship and I think labor and craftsmanship is something that is super important that bill our society and as kind of just disrespected for what people think is like. I don't know intellectual kind of technological or even athletics that they hold in a higher regard to the working man. If we'd have a guy to installer toilets to unclogging drains which is a plumber and pipe fitter Plumber Palmer. Fight Pipe Fitter. It's the same thing. There's no difference in pipe from oil well to toilet. It's the same principles you know what I mean but yeah I think I think I think Americans get back to that respect to work in man and pay them accordingly. You know. That's that's what built built this country. Act You one thing I love about you and then I go off subject every which way. No that's how one thing that I love about you because I those that do not know buckles. They actually have them in the corner with me when my profile so when. Tony and David Fight. I usually bring him along and the guy who connected us as Mike. My Man Michael. Tigar props for him. He's actually the one who introduced me to you and One thing that I like about you having a corners how relax you are and how will you do at What's the word on what I'm saying versus because there's sometimes when people are in the corner where the cut man for you? You're you're the headquarters run the show. I'm a cup man. I'm a stitch Duran. I'm I'm Don House. A this this guy playing that role which is back you up. You're the head and worry about the cuts and stay the hell out of the way. Exactly that bad. I love how you do so well at it though like it's like you got a loud voice. Yeah and you literally Echo exactly what I say and the fruit by the foot you so relaxed you bring the candy ring. Everything you're and snacks and snacks are always important. Yeah you you make the corner in everything in the locker room so relaxed and that's what that's probably my favorite thing about having you out there. Yeah well over. One hundred and fifteen world title fights you know. It's easy to stay relaxed. Yeah all those kind of second nature that experience all that where which one is your most memorable or if you had to pick one fight either you or you coached which one is the one that stands out the most which one I couldn't I couldn't tell you I mean it's it's a big blur you know I was doing. I was corn so much from week to week but I would say two of them would be. When Cody won the World Championship? And then another one be when Darren Elkins and knocked out Massad Beck and he was down two rounds big and he knocked them out with the exact combination. We're working the whole fight to hit him with against the fence. He's going to go out a certain way we're going to kick him and hit him with the right hand and Elkins Finish and he had a mask of blood on them and I never I never lost at you. Can you can watch hundreds of the. Afc fights. I've been in where the crazy that I've cornered and you can watch me in the corner. And every time there's a drop or some cody drop geier Elkins Java Guy. Whoever sent you will gopher submission the corner will stand up crazy? Yeah and I will sit in the chair until it is over because what the hell am I doing? Those are the rules. You know what I mean. There's there's a rule is the corner. Inspectors is going to be telling you sit down doing this kind of crap first of all. Don't touch me. I'm following the rules as second of all just because my fighter drops someone. What does that mean? The fight is not been called off. There's plenty of times I mean speaking of that fight where crews got dropped and he got kicked in the corner went crazy. And I'm just sitting there what I mean. Not till it's over you know so I would say that fight I'd say cody's fight and then Elkins fight for sure for that. Our that man those good very good reasons for them to stand up. Take your working with Cynthia Rhino Right. Anybody else are you working with like in the pro level doing or no? You know now that I'm open actually opening a gym as we were talking about earlier but now I'm opening my own gym. It's the profile team has kind of been more of a secondary thought. 'cause that's what I'm good at and I've got a proven track record with that coaching professionals but for me. It's now that I have my own gym that I've designed myself and I said myself and built it from nothing. I can decide how to focus on and I think right now. I'm leaning more towards an amateur team on Then professionals and five years. My amateurs are going to be professionals. Four years in three years depending on their age and these people will have you know. What's your a pedigree? What's your goal with Your Jim? Tell us about your Jim Words. That what's your goal. What's your vision with your Jim and the name? Everything gives a whole full in one so my gym as an MSI martial arts and fitness institute it's in West Sacramento. It's two miles from the state capital. So we're Gavin. Newsom is passing all these ridiculous laws for California. She'll take us to two miles. Would be at the doorstep to now. I mean right right in the Kaplan and California or Sacramento has one of the most beautiful capitals of any of any Caltech California is has Sacramento California. The capital has one of the most capitals of any state. In my opinion it compares to the The capital in DC capital. It's amazing Capitol Mall and Tower Bridge. Now you're familiar with. And the of course the golden one center right there And so two miles from that just over the bridge next to rallies field and it's a thirteen thousand square foot building huge. It's massive massive. It was no easy task. Securing the building and it's all custom built the designed. There was an open floor. Plan designed everything myself and man. It's incredible just construction. Just finished up you. GotTa come check it out. David actually think he lives the river. Yeah I keep telling to come over. But he's always too busy or whatnot but one of these days. Just come over anytime when I'm down there and check it out but we just finished construction and there's the open is completely open floor plan and I had a locker room locker. Room built men women's soccer him a cleaning closet and a fifteen hundred square foot. Hot Kickboxing Studio. So this is something new that doesn't doesn't exist there's on the west coast. There's no hot kickboxing. So if you think of boxing or kickboxing and then add heat to so just like yoga started out in the west coast just yoga and they started doing heated yoga and and everything else as well as heated pilates on can hardest. And Yeah exactly so but but if you think about it you can get more bang for your buck. Because if you're in the cost fifty minutes it's like with the sweating your calories and the work you're doing is going to be you know you're you're in the hot box getting the burn box and that's actually what is called called Burn. Box Hot kickboxing and So what's your vision with with your Jim. What are you looking established? Would you WANNA do with so the main thing is to make West sack? The fittest city in the world finished city in California their city in the United States so definitely fittest city in the world. And there's different ways we can go about tracking the progress. We have you know from calories burned to weight loss to activity timers. And that kind of thing and we're GONNA play into that more. But that's the main goal is fitness of the community and also to build a amateur program. I mean I shouldn't even amateur kids program I I WANNA I wanNA build the best martial arts teams and combat sports teams from the ground level up and of course when all the AFC belts and make one FC belts and all the other belts boxing belts and everything. Yeah so you. May You have obviously a successful career in Ma. You've seen all that. What does it take to have a successful career in mixed martial arts? What does it take besides the skill? Obviously you have to put in work and all that do what else. What kind of tip? Or what? What else you think you need to do or have to have successful career man. That's a tough one. Because curls careers can be derailed so easily and we've all seen that very experienced without a fighter come to the Jimmy like mascot that'd be world champion next girlfriend never see them again. Yeah that's the biggest one I mean. I'm in the temptation for young strong male fighters and then as soon as they start getting any say. Let's say they're already fighting professionally or something. Would it be your tip to them to keep their their shape straighten on that. What would you tell them? I mean one piece of advice would just be consistent and your training a little bit done every day compared to a couple of our workout one time a week more and the other thing is there's no there's no secret move that you're GONNA learn. There's no secret movie you need to get in shape and they'll fight that man you know what I mean or or woman like. There's no secret move. There's not a coach out there who's going to show you like a move. That just turned off. All of that happens all the time. And it just happened on Saturday with With Henry hooked in Gilbert Burns. Did you see that fight? So it was. He was fighting. Damian Maya who's a great jujitsu fighter and Henry Hoop posted a video today? He's a great kickboxing coach. Out of Florida and he showed he was He was standing South Ball. Just like tossing his jab up and Gilbert was left hooking over the top and admitted into his fight. Gilbert Lands Out Punch Anoxia out. It was amazing so I mean that's good coaching. That's that's That's a good plan coming together. But you know they've worked together for years. They're both high level experts in their field. This isn't something that happens. You're not gonNA find a guy who says here do this and and win the fight. You know. Necessarily you have to train as hard as you can and yes I would say I would say Consistency insistence finding finding the right people around us. Well I mean a lot of people are to to football players to teach them how to fight. You know what I mean like. They're doing they're spending more time doing conditioning than sparring hitting the bag skipping rope working on their cardio this kind of stuff. They're more just pushing slides and doing this stuff really working on the. Yeah exactly so I got a question for you. So and MMA. What would you say is the biggest tools in boxing? That are not taking advantage of by fighters the distance. The I always feel when I when I watched may fights and I watched people have good boxing or have okay boxing with the biggest thing that I feel if I was fighting what I think they should do. They don't know how to punch moving backwards with someone's coming at Ya like. Let's say someone's going to take your legs or someone's coming into do something punch moving backwards. Don't sit there punch moving backwards and then move out the way with their hands and feet doing it together. I feel like when I watch the anytime there boxing. They either stepping forward with it or they're staying stationary. That's one thing that I would say. That might tip the reason why I asked. You the question. As far as what do you need to have a successful career? Is because in boxing? You can have a very talented young man. Very consistent everything male female. But if you don't have a team as far as marketing business into someone behind you going to be a very successful career. No matter how talented how good you are. You know what I mean. That's why I asked you. I don't know if it was the same with MMA or with do you feel like need to have A you need a draw. A crowd pretty much like for example in boxing. If you draw a crowd and you sell tickets you can get putting skit situations just because you sell tickets. Not necessarily because you're good because you sell tickets do you feel like in the AFC is like that also or in. The I would say deathly to an extent. I mean obviously If you go in there and talk trash and be disrespectful and more and more people talk about you they treat you a little better Kinda Weird reward system the AFC has a at a higher level but at the entry level the entry level is you. Can you can know put together. Five fights six five nine fights you can put this together on a local circuit and the last guy number nine number five on your on your first professional fights if he's legit and you put him away in the NFC next fight and you can show up by yourself. I've seen this done and win by knockout and change your whole life. I've seen this done by alcon. His a I think he he fought Ricardo Lamas his well known guy fought local guy. Josh Emmett Chad Mendez. This Guy Ricardo Lamas. He's been top the one hundred forty five dollars for a long time but this is back in. Wc You can talk from Brazil shows up. No coach doesn't speak any English. Had No one there with him and he jumped knees knocks out. Ricardo Lamas in the first round. Didn't cut no wait. Just all on his own so I mean the dream is still alive for UFC fighters. You know what I mean. And he went on and had a career he had he had a great career and that guy can break into into the UFC. Like that. Where I'm boxing is very difficult very difficult. Yeah you can't really you. You could knock somebody out in because it happened. It happened with multiple times with with dudes but it didn't happen the first few fight like a fresh off the boat. You know what I mean. It was like they were already thirty. Five in it takes is a lot harder. You can't really sneak in like you're not gonNA fight a big name dude if you haven't really done anything career. Yeah if you have if you're not twenty thirty five. Am You know what I'm saying? Yeah Yeah it's it's harder. It is doable. But it's a lot harder because it seems like you know boxing. You have to put the crew together make the name do all this stuff and then at the end to come check picks you and interesting successful. It's off to the races. You've but if not just dropping it someone else and there's enough guys fighting to get to the top. Where if you look at one hundred and fifteen pound girls or a hundred twenty five one hundred twenty five girls in the AFC if you're a college athlete and you want to go to the college level athlete you know. Come my jam. We'll train and if you're if you're easy on the eyes you'll be the UFC and six months. You know what I mean. You have three four fights fighting the AFC at this level so it's Kinda like a gold rush of fighting and that's why a lot of people are getting into it but it's not as it isn't as isn't not a journey is not as long. Yeah pretty much and it's probably because too because you have so many tools that you can get away with hurting somebody you know what I mean like. It's you can't punch him fucking kick him kick can choke him out. You can do that. Versus with boxing is so hard on trying to knock somebody out and they've been doing it for so long also. You know what I'm saying if you have three or four fights in boxing it really shows. Hey you're going to be like. Oh yeah you got to be skilled highly skilled at their hands to make a buck or completely brutal with power devastating aggressive to make boxing fight entertaining because of sport has had such. I mean it's been around forever. It's credential we've had. We've had degrades and seeing them fight. So you'd better keep up a level of it. You know what I mean. That's why you have guys like canal and just superstars etiquette making. Do you remember back. Y I remember very clearly but this was probably like Oh four zero five. Six where a lot of people were compared boxing MMA. I don't think people do it as much now but it was very very popular. Do you remember that? Of course I remember. Joe Rogan San that Ronda Rousey beat Floyd Mayweather streetfight. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah do you remember. Yeah I mean this is this is what so this guy's the I don't know so. Do you agree with that? Absolutely not undefeated against women. Yeah you're right Adam Street place. Yeah that's a good one. Yeah it is. You're right so I always feel like it's really unfair to judge something like that like I don't think any guy who do success be like just with no training or nothing. Just walk into boxing and become a world champion without training and I don't think nobody can just walk into the UFC and be a UC champion. What that any like. Really respecting the sport. Because there's so much more to both sports that you can't release his okay. I'm going to knock this guy. Boom you know what I'm saying. No Yeah and I've always felt like it was unfair to really compare the both like that. I thought I don't know I ask you for your opinion if it was a street fight and you obviously do not know anything about a person because usually street by you. Don't know the whole background on him. And you guys are fighting. You can't really say one person has because it's really whoever's they it is I mean do may win. The boxer may win and it could be either or obviously the mixed martial arts has a lot more tools and all that but then when you think about it is a street fight shoot focus probably hitting you a bottle doing all sorts of sheets not really just about why I mean it's you you just got done saying it's hard to compare under these set rules. Yeah I take those rules out at any variable get stomped out here with the bottle or whatever. It's it's anyone's game. But is a train guy going to be better suited for that situation and untrained guy? Of course you what I mean and and you know if if you if there is a situation who's going to be better prepared they have made fun of your goes straight up mark queensberry squared off in the street. You know what I mean. Hopefully there is not a head kick or something but also you don't know if this guy's GonNa put Jabber Cross. I will kill you in. So it's anyone's game streetfighting. And that's like it's funny because in mma they just were talking about that could be. It was talking to Tony Ferguson. About Street fighter. Were you American? You know fight in the street. I'm like what what does that mean. Whoa wait are their streets in Dagestan. I mean there's there's some dirt roads and stuff but what do you mean? You're fighting in the streets walking through the stone huts and beaten up other people. What are you talking about like? Oh we fight in. Jim could be like you mean in high school. You were fighting in the gym. That's not street fights but Tony Ferguson. He's representing America. He's represent America says off from and I'm like What's kind of street fights habit oxnard. You know but I'm going with USA. Hopefully Ferguson as takes out KABIBI. Now you gotta go with. Even though I'm not I'm not a Ferguson fan in any in any sense the guy's a Weirdo you know there was a recent fight. Those girls. They said it was a hall of fame fight. Recently like yeah. It was Joanna versus we lay. I didn't watch it but I saw the pictures of the girl got. They went that what you think about that. I think that fight really shows how uneducated people are when it comes to find especially may fan base. Ma Fan base has no idea what they're watching. That fight was an okay. Brown contested kickboxing match to call that. The greatest fight ever just shows how how these guys don't even know what they're watching. They don't even know what they're watching. That was a highly contested. Kicks it was right there? We lay almost one around but then Joanna just took it and then Joanna just took the round over. We lay and it went like that. And and I wa- I actually watched the I was watching on choppy version of it. You know was. I watched the finals. You know who won? Then it's a here's here's here's how how the ties would say it. You know the the the birthplace of this is how they would describe the fight. They'd say You know hey ladies good goodbye you know good. It is what it is. It's two hundred fifty pound. Girls beat the crap out of each other for for twenty. Five minutes is not the greatest anime of all how you gave me the grace and may fight of all time with no groundwork you know what I mean zero grappling so what. You have is a kickboxing match. That was real close. Here's things that make a great fight to me. Someone coming back from adversity. A great fight is is Frankie. Edgar versus gray maynard. Frankie EDGAR FACES. Destroy all beat up. You know Mark Henry Size. He's he's he's going in there and he's got such good cardio he's taken this damage family. Lanza Punch knocks out maynard like holy cow. That's a great fight. He was on the receiving end of it. He never gave up and he came back from adversity. He was hurt himself. That's that's an amazing fight. You know another thing. Amazing if I is it is a blistering pace like two people going at a blistering pace all time and another thing that makes it great fight as the moves from from ground to stand up to the different techniques this was a kickboxing fight their punching each other home girls. China Lander left took. The other girl was donor kick and they bands around and twenty five minutes. This went on and Joanna's face was swollen up. She looked like hidden to meet up. She bad I feel I feel bad for. Because she's she's doing this thing All for Joanna. When she came out of Poland she came out of Paul and she was. She's mean Polish Lady. You know what I mean. Poland Poland the country. That's kind of I mean. Pose a country with no natural borders surrounded by enemies in Europe. They got rush over here and Germany over here and they've been Sovereign country for one hundred eighty for twenty years out of the last two Hundred Years Poland. Joanna comes over here training in the force with these crazy Polish people running up these mountains outside. I'm like yeah. This chicken awesome. She wins the first Xiaowei Clean. No beat Carlos spars a defense at six time and then all of a sudden. She's Instagram model in Florida. You're I mean lose the bell. She's instagram model. She's doing all this stuff like and it's funny because Dana said that before the fight. He's Dana White. He said we lay. He goes I think we laze every time she posted on instagram. Her training and strength and conditioning. Like being up these Chinese guys over there and and then every time Joanna posts on. It's like a Selfie. She's at the beach. She got plastic surgery on her chest. And this is to me is if you're a fighter who has to make a wait. What are you doing getting silicone? Implants how much those way you know what I mean. So you gotta think of. What are their motivation. So at when she did that you know she's more interested in instagram. And there's nothing wrong with that but if you want to be just a dog fight world champion and take hold that forever you got. You got to understand what your priorities are. And her and Dana White said it was was a She's a grandma and I think the same thing but the but it was. It was sad for me to see that because she's so focused on her image and stuff now to have our heads to have a girl with her head swollen like that on national the TV and she still has some real bad drainage and stuff like that and it's like man no finding his brutal fighting brutal. And it's kind of a. I don't know quite the contrast trying to be a model and a fighter right. We're fires because we can't sing it. We can't dance. We're not fighters because we have all these other options. That's why that's why you're speaking of that. I don't know if you saw the new rocky creed cre- too. I walked away. Do I could not. Hey I walked out movies horrible you do. It's a rich kid a rich kid who's got nothing to do and he's not okay with his life because he's rich and has no no reason to live so he starts fighting. That's not how fighters. Yeah that's that's completely backwards. I what a fighter is. A fighter is someone who the. Who why I like you. Who when when it comes down to it will fight for everything physically if he has to I mean I I I can't take this shit damn can't take and I left. It was like twenty minutes and we walked out mad and so I watched when I when I get in a movie like that I watch it and I it bad to mock it like this is this is the worst thing ever in that movie. His his his girlfriend. She uses him to sing a song at his entrance. I'm like she's playing off his career piggybacking off his Kerr's a fighter to try to push her music career. I'm like what is this man it. It's it's strange man. Rock from rock had one from rocky one. You know to to that. Yeah that I think they're trying to force issues too much. Leave it alone. 'cause I they're just putting the series the Beh put it to bed. They're just trying to push it to you. Know if you think about it and it would be like rocky's trainer you know like like they tried since rocky five you know. He's a trainer and and the kids coming up and he he's coming from a bad situation and he gets the people behind him and he does a montage training. I'm all for that. But how about you know he? He leaves his mom. His mom makes a mad. 'cause she she makes him do his chores or something. Living in a mansion you know and then goes down to Mexico to fight a Mike. No Rich Kid is going to do that. You know so. Wow Yeah. He really feels about. I don't know about. Yeah but I'm going to ask you some off the wall questions. Nothing to do with fighting nothing with that and you answer the first thing that POPs up okay. What is your favorite restaurant a steak restaurant? I have to say. Whitey's yes next what's in West sockets across the gym. You can go there and get a triple cheeseburger for five bucks. Has got three huge. It's like a blue collar place. It's amazing I mean all all the all the the workers come through their. Wesak is very industrious and their food is fast as fresh and email. You get a banana split. You know A banana split for five bucks. It's maybe s amazing. I need to go. There was something about Justin vocals. People don't know about too much about only he says some share something about you. No one really knows. My Dad killed a polar bear. Yeah like bare hands. Or what did he jumped on? Its back how do you kill shot? It shot it. That's interested off point. Hope in two hundred miles off the coast on the. He's probably one of the only white guys that's ever ever shot a polar bear. Anything like that you know. He got he got a tag on it and I don't know what year it was but that is interesting. It's a rug in my in his house up there in my Old Room. I I may well. I wanted to thank you for coming on here. They're just getting warmed up. And I thank you guys a thank you for listening we out.