18 Episode results for "North Carolina State University"
Arthropod House Guests
"Hey Don what are you doing with that jar. Collecting arthropods Gile inning crabs grabs are type of author pod but I'm not surprised isn't animal with an exoskeleton. A segmented body and jointed limbs includes insects spiders might send centipede soup. You're collecting bugs then. I'm doing some research. Did you know that entomologists from North Carolina State University Renan study that phone we I share our houses with more than five hundred kinds of arthropods hundred that's crazy. I will admit it surprising. The researchers took samples from fifty houses during the summer months near Raleigh. They collected both living and dead. arthropods from each room and total that identified over five hundred different morphos species those are species so closely related that they have to be identified by scientists looking for specific physical traits. He's house had on average about one hundred more fo- species there is no way that I have one hundred species of anything living in my house they mostly collect flies spiders Beatles and send book lice most of the species. Says they found don't normally live houses there. arthropods that accidentally wondered in from doors for example they found goal midges all fifty homes midges are small flies that feed on outdoor plants and can't survive indoors believe it or not only five rooms out of five hundred fifty had no arthropods house is cleaner than that. I bet you have cobwebs sir. Those are made by cobwebs spiders which are found in sixty five.
#260: PRO TALK with Dr. Erik Severson
"You want the water wastewater coming from those trenches or that drain old to travel through At speed sufficient to move from the site that we don't want water to accumulate, but yet we need to balance that with treatment. Welcome to the fine building. Talk Podcast, our regular discussions with building industry professionals. This is senior editor Patrick mccomb. I'm joined by Dr Eric's Iverson. He's an extension associate in the wastewater management training program at North Carolina State University. You can find the fine homebuilding podcast and the original fine home building podcast at fine home building dot com slash podcast. You can leave feedback and ask questions there to. Dr Eric is such a pleasure to have you on this show I? I made an appeal to our listeners to put us in touch with a soil scientist, and they recommended you and I off like I ask everybody, are you? Are you healthy family? Okay? Are you able to work normally? What's what's going on? We're healthy and wealthy is optional wise optional. We're healthy and we are operating under the new normal, which is the The remote since we're trying to put things online as much as we can, and you know we're trying to tell work as much can where the kids are taking online school, so that's that's been a new challenge, so we're making it. Have you heard if your kids will be going back to school in the fall yet to have an opposite that we go year round here so they have an option to go back July seventeenth, and that's the debate now whether or not to send them back, you know. They need the socialization, but we. We also need them to stay healthy enough to stay healthy sure. Can you please tell me about the university program that you're part of and what you do? There yeah I am the training director of a management wastewater management program that has been developed years prior to me being here, so I was actually a Grad Student and NC state. Back, from one zero five so I took an extra couple of years, but This the norm. What the people on the show I can tell you that's right. That's right. More only to collect more wisdom right so. This this. Onsite the science of onsite has really been. You know nucleated if you will in the early Seventies. Early seventies late eighties, and there was a vision Dr Michael. He the extension service cooperative sensors where we're kind of working hand, state and. He. Had the vision, and he had the wherewithal to make a training program happen, and so we have a thirty three acre training programs US me a thirty off of Lakeway, a road, which is about five miles south campus. Give or take, and we have another one in Asheville in those river There used to be all. Kinds of satellite training centers throughout the state, so he created that another person of interest is. David Limbo they worked together. I was David Limos student I in, so it was really Dr Hoover He, created it, he he got the energy. He got the money and he really Really founded He really began the the wastewater program in the early nineties, ninety, five, ninety four. Do, you guys actually have systems that people train on on those facilities we have above ground displays, facilities, and we, we partner with help, local health districts, health departments and local operators in an installer, so we work together and these these are the curriculum has been. It was nationally based. There was a national curriculum around. Five that was circulating around, and of course await hit so things kind of dropped down, but this curriculum was developed in Oh three Oh five that area. And we just built upon that. And so are you training? The people who are the system installers or the designers are both? We. We provide a certification school for Septic staller's operators. Point of sale inspector so every time you get a home home transaction. The lending institutions are are asking for an inspection of the drain field, so inspectors in that regard, not the inspectors. It's ubiquitous term for. Health Health Department okay, so we do we don't do that. That's that training does go on our facility, but those are th through the state of Carolina, and you guys doing doing research to in addition to training these people. Yes, I'm involved primarily. We're training. Our functions is training. My directive is training, but I'm also involved in cool research projects for instance with other faculty NC. State and we are looking at the effects sea level rise on coastal systems, and because they are really at. I would say at a high risk. The the elevation is not very great, especially out on the outer banks and the beach. You have, so we should tell listeners that north. Carolina has a series of barrier islands off the East Coast the Outer Banks and. They wash away pretty often, right? And then to be replenished and renew storms storms come through and create you know. move the sand around. And they oftentimes erode sand. road beat you know there's been many instances of septic systems there beachfront. Religiously beachfront right? They've been eroded away from storm surges. The storm surges are increasing, and this is also affecting the coastal people not on the not strictly. On the barrier islands, but people on the coast as well. So, why should why should people care about this stuff? People should care because half half of America's on a septic system half to forty, forty, five, roughly forty five percent of North Carolina is on a separate. If you do not have a septic system, you do not have a livable dwelling or a an habitable dwelling or business or facility. You. Know if you have a if you build a house and you can't. If you do it the opposite. If you build the house without the permitting in the soil in information, you'll have your. A Nice big shed, right? You can't let you can't get permanent power etcetera. I remind people to as far as like the expensive systems in your home. You know this. Is it close to the top or at the top of the list of my right? Depending on the home, so. People, you know. They can spend more on their draperies and curtains. Then they cannot subject system right, so it's one of the the it's considered. Foundational or The term is escaping me, but. Sh-. Concerned vital vital portion of the home. The homes infrastructure so bay can't be very expensive. Yeah, they can be, but without them. You can't. You can't live there so I also tell people. Frankly this stuff interests me greatly in many people think it's odd but I i. tell them that a basic human sanitation has done more to improve the human condition than anything else I can can think of right you know. We used to have regular cholera outbreaks and dysentery outbreaks. You know and we've largely got a hand on this because we know how to deal with our wastewater. Absolutely, nine hundred twenty. You know there's a there's a chart it in my courses that. Over you know. tyrod or cholera infections per year over time, and it drastically decreases at you know nineteen twenty and whenever we started adding chlorine to the water when we made the realization that yes, we need to treat water in that really. Drops dramatically throughout the years. The number of cases. You mentioned earlier that. You train these folks in these respective. Roles in inspecting sex, septic systems and installing them. Can you tell me briefly I know the rules are different state by state, but what are the classes of? Folks were talking about in your in your program. Okay, so with with the broad spectrum of. Wastewater. Management! We're dealing with human waste. We're not dealing with animal waste so with humor as you have. The you have surface irrigated irradiation operators. That's the spray fields. That's a reuse of water. For Springfield you know we should tell folks who aren't familiar with agriculture, but a lot of farms spray the newer on the crops right. Yep. Yep So so there's the spray so when residuals are generated, there's liquids and solids. You have to have ways to deal with both right, so the surface irrigation is a entirely. It's regulated under stage. It's excellent. It's called whip sock. I'm not going to bore you with the. As all men. Don't try. So so there's the spray irrigation operators which deal with the surface application of. Waste that's been you know. Two percent solids one percent majority liquid that they're putting out there and they rely know. The sites are permitted, and they rely on the crop in. Operation, of course then there's the bio salad applicator which is. Considered the residuals of the solids. What's left? of of the treatment of treat of wastewater small wastewater treatment plants. Small Upton Lars facilities these can be the city of carry the city of Raleigh. That generate a lot of waste as you can imagine. And so you have to get rid of the way. She had to be at a store, so there's a big I it's. It's May seem. well I don't I. Don't know what it may seem like, but it's a big. It was a big industry and. It's you have to deal with your waist. These are wastewater treatment plants. What do you do with all that Aotearoa? The that comes in you've got to screen it treated. It's a lot. It's very incense. Where does it go? Ultimately ultimately gets, it's either discharged into you know bigger plants, distortion, river, right, but the solid portions, and the by products of the treatment. They had to be dealt with and they they can be quote. Unquote shunted off into another direction where they they are further separated liquid to solid but smaller towns less than fifty thousand people. They have their own own package plants, and they're. They're smaller in scale same thing they can go to lagoons that hold waste. Liquid waste and and then. The way the liquid. Is drawn from that lagoon and then sprayed onto these fields. What about in the residential sector so he's putting pipes in the ground. I mean so okay. Let me let me all right. Let me back up, so you had the surface irradiation. You had the bio solids or the land application operators. You have been the subsurface, which is the drain field portion. You have that class of operator. In what operators do they maintain in monitors, `ISMs to keep them healthy. Keep them running now. Then there's another -nother. Entirely different regulated body, called the installers and inspectors in these deal with e subsurface so anything below the ground they are putting in systems. They are repairing. They are doing point of sale. Inspections! So. There are different body different people when when they come to you for training. Do you find that they're pretty knowledgeable or are you starting from a blank slate? Well unfortunately a have to assume that they start from a blank slate, but most of them do come in with some kind of machinery operation. Able to operate equipment they they're familiar with business. A lot of them come from the grading industry where they'll see someone else putting in the septic system. They will clear the lot and they will see someone else. See this. Put in the system and say hey I can do that as part of my services. And you have people from EXCI- existing businesses looking to branch out. Looking into different different at different A. Skills are services that they offer. What do what does the State require folks how trade ing to be certified to do residential septic? Maintenance and installation. Okay, so the installation port. You have to go through at minimum and eighteen hour introductory class that involves classroom in field. Portions of of learning, so we're just again. That is the the minimums we're introducing regulate. Roles class. have to know their bounds. This is not a class where we get out there and they're operating scenes that we're not set up for that. This is a rules class where they get a taste of what's going on. We try to give them as much information within a three day period as possible. You're teaching them. Things like how far away the drain field has to be from water, supply or property lines. What have you? Yes, the minimum stated in in the sewage regulations so that. Just like that, so these same folks in north, Carolina that are designing systems, or is that another entity to there to there to entities was the health department. More three really the health department their their public sector employees they go out, and they have traditionally designed septic systems, and then they will issue the permits. Nowadays. The health part in addition to health department license soil scientists will go out and evaluate the soils. And they will design the system and then submit. A package to the to the health departments now we're in kind of a transition where there's. New regulations being proposed new session laws being introduced so. There's a lot of options. You also have an engineered option where engineers can come in and. Design and kind of take control over the system if you will from cradle grave So they engineer soil scientists and health department. So in. Septic system designed and and function is dependent on having the right kind of soils right and healthy microbiome. What are the characteristics of good soil for a conventional septic system and we can get into what a conventional. Means means on a little bit. So, the best soil ideal soil is one that's well drained. Deep! That's not it's you. Don't encounter bedrock, restrictive layers or seasonal wetness. It's permeable and I guess that's qualified that it's moderately permeable or Marley rapidly permeable. It's ideally you want the water or wastewater, coming from those trenches or that drain field to travel through. At speed sufficient to move from the site because we don't want water to accumulate, but yet we need to balance that with treatment that we count on the soils to to act as A. Vinyl treatment process. Okay, the soil is the is the number one treatment facility in the world right, so we were counting on the soil, and specifically the oxygen in the soul of breakdown and renovate that F one. Because, these are essentially reuse systems, they that water or liquid portion is either going to be absorbed by the soil or move into groundwater. Right, so we need it to. The clay in the soil, and the fine particles to remove into attach the bat. You know the the. The nutrients in the in the the pathogens to attach the clay To treat the what's treat the effluent, so the idea is balanced ideal. We call it sandy clay loam. That's pretty much the idea. There's a there's a texture triangle from the USDA. This is Mike Be Getting off the weeds, but A sore. That's permeable deep well drained. But not straight, saying straight sand will. It's great for disposal, but not treatment. The if I'm correct, the water does flows through too quickly. You don't get this. The microbial action in the in the in the soil to break down the pathogens. Don't get the residence time. You're too quickly as bypassing and I want to mention also land slant form. Orleans scape the way that the land shape really dictates what type of school you have. In part, and it also promotes the water moving or shedding away. You do not want it to accumulate in like you don't want to put your train fill in a bowl. You WanNa put it on a no sloat where water shedding off three directions ideally interesting, so I mentioned conventional septic system right and I'm going to walk through, so there's a tank. Tank right that catches solid waste, and then there's an outlet on the end of the tank, and it goes to a drain field rate, and the water percolates through the soil and gets purified. am I correct in that? There's generally four four four basic parse. There is the home or the source of the facility, and there's a pipe a PVC pipe. From home to the tank now that pipe from the home, the tank that's governed under plumbing code. Okay so when the inlet when it hits that inlet portion of the tank. Then it becomes under the state rules the separate roles and flows into a tank. And then the settle the solid. Settle Out, and there's a there's an inlet alad side. There's a baffle. There's a wall so the inlet side. The tanks are give or take a thousand gallon tank is about nine feet long four feet wide. And it's about. Let's let's say six fifty. Maybe five to six feet. The right. Depending on the tank and so. That wall inside separates the solids and it holds back in allows for stratification. Of. The scrums, which would which is a fats, wholesome greases, which flows to the top and then heavy sink to the bottom solids in your life for this clear layer, so you know the function of a tank is stratified to reduce to reduce the solids. There's ANAEROBIC anaerobic decomposition going on. In this whole right so so the inlet side is two-thirds of the entire tank, and then you had the outlet side. On the outlet there's there's two access points in on the outlet. You have a filter which further removes total suspended solids organics, and that's a can I say a relatively new addition to separate conventional subjects systems, or is that incorrect perception on my part well in north? Carolina actor. January first nineteen, ninety nine, every subject system is required to have a filter, and that's meant to keep solids out of the Leech field right that's meant to protect any downstream component of the drain field from organic, so from that tank you could, you could flow by gravity into a pump tank. You could flow into a distribution box. You can fold directly into the drain field. There's many different configurations and people want a conventional system largely because it relies on gravity. There's no pumps and. The relatively inexpensive compared to some of the systems that you need for more problematic soils. Is that correct? Okay, well, yeah, there's there's a there has been a historical. Bias against pump cinder quote. Pump back systems. yeah, people ideally would like the easiest system. There is gravity system for his grabby. There's no moving parts. There's no mechanical arts rather or minimal mechanical reports. There's no very low operating costs. There's no electricity, so yeah. Ideally, that's what they want. And like, can you tell me a few of the types? Briefly like so I've I've been to north. Carolina, and it's got varied topography rate, and as we were talking earlier. Subject design is largely based on the kinds of soils you have. Are there different types of systems for the respective parts of North Carolina. Well Yeah in North Carolina. We have a coastal plain which is broken up into the upper middle. Lower Coastal Plains tie water region, which is really caused the water, and then the Outer Banks, and then moving westward you had the falls on which is where the rapids begin where the ships were navigating the. Came through the trade ships they they had to stop because they hit rock. Right so right there. Basically to the foothills is called the Piedmont gently undulating. Topography. Deep Red Soils, but you can have some really. Bad soils there. They're areas especially around here. Just west of here called the traffic basin. Now we'll get into it but triassic basins. Soils are very rough. There's traditionally been limited development of any kind housing. So then you have the mountain foothills going up to the mountains, and then you have high medium and low amounts, and of course you have Riverina. Cutting across so to answer your question, there are preference. Everything for the most part install statewide right, so there are preferences. Things work better in the mountains. Such is large diameter pipe that they would call refer to as sock pipe. It's it's long its narrow in it wraps around contour and and it's. It's A. Corrugated pipe with holes in them on the sadza routines, and it's it sucked or it's. It's encased in a fiber. which protects it from the soil material? Getting in that works very well in the mountains. It traditionally does not work well in the in the. Coastal plain because the sand defined Santana get in and called the pores. So there are regional differences, but for the most part that you know like. we have. I go in any number of direction you want to. so can. A. Is it fair to say that it's you need an expert who's regional? Is that a fair assessment or I mean? Are there engineers who like practice throughout North Carolina de Designing Onsite System? It depends on your region right, so the southeast could be many states in the southeast northeast, but I. Get your meaning. You need someone who's who is ideal, an expert in your regional or localized. Conditions our soil's that people that know this will people are masters at the soils that have mapped and looked thousands of boreholes and on the engineering side and the design side. People that are you know, address? The soil problems. Yeah, ideally want someone with experience in those areas. So what can people do to keep from messing up their septic system? For, starters, Go ahead just. Don't drive over. Don't have you know. Don't have parties at thirty or more. Regularly, unless you're inviting me. Just just make sure treat it like it's your body is a temple, right? Now, don't don't you know. Don't flush three gallons of milk down. Don't flush bleeds down. Know what to do, know where it is know how to maintain it, and sometimes maintenance is just not doing. Things that we humans to do like. Flush foreseeable wife's. Anything that says flushable being very wary of because they might not be. I had a receipt so I originally had that in one of the questions. Plumbers for. They. Tell me all the time that those things are a nuisance. It's. It's bad a bad product. You shouldn't be putting stuff in your toilet. Well Yeah it's it's maybe not a bad product, but is not intended to go down a pipe into your septic tank, and it's not you know that's a pompous best friend. Right because that makes them money that they all the time. And what about the additives? Like riddick's. There's there's been a study by Mike Hoover in the nineties. I believe maybe early thousands that additives have no statistical benefit overall. They do not improve the treatment or function on the whole. You might have a spike of cases. Excuse me a peak or an outline nominally that yes, it does work. You've heard stories that. Yes, it does work or no, it doesn't work. We tell people that there's no statistical benefit of adding so you know that's not to say that they can't. They're they're. They're the homeowner they they're in charge of the system. and. It's not gonNA. Hurt per se. It's just a you know you don't have to use your money right? You don't have to spend your money, but but bleach does hurt right. And solvents. Well yeah, that's going back to your other question that. So expertly circumvented right and. You WanNa you know if you're doing a symbol full of blades as from. Iraq going to be an issue if you're if you're regularly adding Blaetz, your clothes or your cleaning whatever you're doing if you flushing it. On a regular basis, regular stream of inputs, yes, that will kill the bacteria in the tank, and if you don't have that bacteria, you run the risk, you know. The function of tanks do anaerobic digest that and you run the risk of that going up in puppet, quicker and quicker. Are Their General Rules of thumb about how often you have to pump I. Mean career is right, three or five years. That's longest right. Some systems would require more often or is that. Idea, if okay, and that see, we're going down different holes. There's differ bunny trails here. If you have a system that requires an operator. You might be having an operator report looking at it on a weekly basis if it's if it's A. Our system, if it's a high, you know if it has a high flow or high amount of treatment or more likely operated coming once or twice a year looking at it, and they will do, they will take core samples and tell you whether or not you need to pump. The big problem with needing the pump or not problem, but just systems that need to be pumped more frequently involved Greece drops. They ruin need to have an eye, or if you have a smaller tank, right lay my tank dates to the forties thirties I want to say at seven hundred and fifty gallons, so they tell me to pump more often wasted money. It depends I. Mean You you know in North Carolina if you have gravity systems, Yo humps, US and you, the homeowner are the operator so under you can either a someone, or you could do it yourself. You could core sample and This goes back to your previous question. You need to as a homeowner. You need to know where your system is especially. If you have a system especially, if you have a shower system, you don't WanNA drive over it. Your. Kids going into the tanks or anything like that, so say I. Yeah because you have a seven hundred fifty gallon tank doesn't necessarily mean that you had to. It's the amount of solids and scum that accumulate in North Carolina. They say the rule states it is your complice. Scum on top a solid and the bottom is greater than thirty years thirty three percent of the total liquid de yes, need the or at that scum layer is just quote too thick. I. Mean You need to Pop So do you have onsite septic, or do you have a sewer? Personally have a pump system. I feel that if I talk the talk I need to walk the walk. I never never been on a sewer sees me subject system before. Sewer Guy. Said He. How'd you get into this? One class as well as a soil scientists took. Undergrad degree at Virginia Tech Yes, I'm hockey. and Allison was one classical soil taxonomy and there's old. Old School professor his name was bill. Edwards and he took us across the state, and he showed us the way he he shows got into groups of. You know there are sixty people. It was his last got into groups of six. He called US packs and this is at Virginia Tech. So this kind of you know was prepping me for my time and state so I was in a wolf pack, and we, he said human centered the congregate into packs, and there's leaders in the. We kinda Rome together and. You know I had long hair and my nickname was the Wolfman so. That, Was One class across the state we. Learn to learn soils learn landscapes, and it's about the people this this industry, the soil science engineering onsite wastewater their call for colorful people. So I like working with them. That's awesome. I wish we had more time man. We do we do? You. Are you GonNa? Would you come on again? I mean. Was this pain painful? Said never again. This is not painful. Is Ask. Our listeners to send in their questions to soil scientists on site, septic systems and I think would be super fun to have a show where we answered those questions. What do you think? Are you game! I'm gay all right. Man Game. Well unfortunately, that's all the time we after day. Thanks to Dr Eric Stevenson for joining us and thanks. All of you for listening. Please remember to send us your comments, questions and suggestions to f HP podcast at Taunton Dot Com and please like home. Interview is however you're listening. It helps folks find our podcast. States save safe everybody and happy building.
College Esports Quicktake Takeover - NC State Study Looks at Gender Disparity in College Esports
"Welcome to classes in session a look at academic research in East sports and gaming amid dreamed. Quick take presented by sports network. Today, we're looking at a paper published by an associate professor, any PhD student at North Carolina State University. The research appeared in the Journal critical studies on Mass Communication. The goal was to see if college is worth programs have been more successful at crecy gender representation. East sports than professional sports have there are a few women who compete at the highest levels of professional sports. Rockets Karma is well regarded player who has spent time in. Her stoldas women, when major tournaments it so as fortnight, but for dependent environment that doesn't have fiscal differences creating a gap between genders us for to still almost entirely male dominated Nick Taylor co-authored the study and associate professor of Communication at NC State said in the journal quote five years ago we thought collegiate sports might be an opportunity to create a welcoming diverse competitive arena which. Was a big deal given how male-dominated the professional eastward scene was rapid growth of collegiate sports over the past five years has led to it becoming more professional with many universities having paid eastwards, positions, recruiting players at so odd we wanted to see how that professionalization has affected collegiate sports and what that means for gender diversity. The findings did not give us reason to be optimistic. For this study naked, his Co author interviewed Twenty One people involved in these sports programs. Eight of the people are part of Varsity programs with the other thirteen being president of their schools. Collegiate East Sports Club six of the respondents identified as women fifteen identified as men PhD Student Bright Style, the other CO author of the study told the Journal. Quote essentially, we found that women are effectively pushed out of eastwards many colleges when they start investing financial resources in east, Sports Program we talk lease sports might help to address the disenfranchise women in eastport at engaging more generally instead, it seems to simply be an extension of that disenfranchisement and quote. While an interview of twenty, one people isn't a perfect encapsulation of the wide-ranging college. He's worth ecosystem, all twenty one or in key rules of big programs meaning they speak for quite a few more when it comes to gender disparity. College eastwards still have a chance to be a place where we can create more inclusive east sports environments, but `gate-keeping in Tuxes D- are still real problems that women face in the space without focused initiatives that disparity won't get much better. That's all his sort of the college sports quick take. I'll be back tomorrow with a program spotlight on Harrisburg University the subject of a new documentary college sports, and then on Friday I'll be publishing episode with Jordan Sherman of Jenn. G. GINGY is doing a lot of work increase getting more women into East sports and Jordan talks about how they're doing that on the college level as well with the Gen ten initiative to be on the lookout for that podcast coming this Friday.
Save The Whales. Save The Tigers. Save The Tapeworms?
"Most of us have heard of saving the elephants or saving the polar bears. But what about saving their parasites scientists are increasingly finding that parasites are key part of ecosystems and many risk of extinction NPR's lauren summer explains. When your job is to study parasitic worms, not everyone wants to hear what you do for a living. It's not a popular topic of conversation cocktail parties. I can tell you that Chelsea would is assistant professor at the University of Washington parasites a major public relations problem they're gross and slimy and most people don't really like thinking about them. But the fact is that they're really important in ecosystems would. Says just look at a flat worm she studies in California Ponds I. The parasites starts as an egg inside a bird, the birds about the egg, which infects snails than it goes from the snail to frog, but the parasite needs to get back in a bird to finish its life cycle. So it causes deformities in the frogs legs, which makes it easier for birds to catch and eat them which helps. Sustain. The bird population would says, it shows how humble parasites can influence the entire food web. But if birds are threatened, we're GONNA. See some parasites decline possibly to extinction in the presence of environmental change, which is why team parasitology released a new parasite conservation plan. The first step is simply identifying them of the millions of parasite species only about ten percent are known to science says Schuyler Hopkins of. North Carolina State University. We know nothing about them. We don't need another name Oh definitely don't know what they're doing with the ecosystems. Many parasites are just as vulnerable as their host animals are to climate change and habitat loss but even though an animal may be listed as endangered, it's parasites aren't, but they could be added alongside their more visible hosts. It would be a really great way or easy way. To get a lot of mileage for her site conservation because humans tend to gravitate to animals like us. It is the wolves and the grizzlies and the polar bears mostly the mammals that really get people's attention Jacob Malcolm Works for the advocacy group defenders of wildlife. He says, it's not all bad. That humans focus on those charismatic critters saving their habitat can also help the less charismatic species in their ecosystem. So whatever chances his group launches a save the Leeches campaign pretty close to zero. So now's the time leach lovers of the World Unite Lauren summer NPR news.
North America Has Lost 3 Billion Birds, Scientists Say
"This message comes from NPR SPONSOR COMCAST BUSINESS GIG fueled network solutions that help businesses go beyond the expected to do the extraordinary Gary comcast business beyond fast learn more at comcast business dot com scientists worry that bird populations across North America have been decreasing using NPR's Nell Greenfieldboyce reports that researchers now have a rough estimate of how the total number of birds has changed since nineteen seventy. Ken Rosenberg is sixty five years old and he says over his lifetime. He's noticed a decline in migrating birds like evening gross speaks. When I was a kid there there were years when you could save fifty or a hundred at your feeder and now you're lucky in a big year to see ten. Rosenberg works at the Cornell Lab of ornithology. He knew that some bird populations like Bald Eagles have actually gone up over the last few decades so he wondered how the total number of birds in the sky might be changing Are there fewer birds than there. Were nineteen seventy or are we seeing a shift and losing some of the rare specialized species shifting towards more generalists more common bird species that are more adapted to humans to find out he and some colleagues gathered all the data they could on over five hundred bird species a lot of of it came from bird surveys done each year by volunteers they also use data from weather radar installations that can detect flocks of migrating birds they crunched all the numbers and were stunned by the results by our estimates thirty percent loss in the total number of breeding birds since nineteen seventy less than I'm fifty years and that's three billion birds three billion fewer birds. Rosenberg says most of that loss comes from bird families. Please like sparrows. finches warblers swallows things like meadow lark's dark eyed junco horned Lark redwing blackbird and the main culprit. Britt is probably the loss of their natural habitat with increased urbanization and more agriculture. This massive bird accounting project is described described in the journal Science. It's not exactly as precise as balancing your checkbook Ted Simon's ecologist with North Carolina State University. He says trying to count and track birds is a daunting task or certainly far from having the tools and having the resources to to have real high confidence and our estimates of these populations still he thinks it's very likely that the total bird population has substantially stanchly declined and other say the new estimate sounds about right like migratory bird researcher Kristen Rig at Colorado State University overall. All the conclusions weren't necessarily surprising. I mean they were depressing but not surprising she says having this estimate is a way to wake people up to the problem. Nell Greenfieldboyce. NPR News this message comes from NPR. We are sponsor comcast business. GIG fueled network solutions that help businesses go beyond the expected to do the extraordinary comcast business beyond fast learn more at comcast business dot com.
With Bugs & Bacteria Living In Your Home, You're 'Never Home Alone'
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air today. The amazing diversity of life in your home. Not the people the bacteria fungi, viruses, little insects parasites. We talk with rob Dunn, author of the new book, never home alone. He used to inventory the life in rainforests. Then I eventually found myself in home is with the realization that a lot of what I'd done in jungles. We could do under the bed and in showers dead knows his findings may make you want to declare war on the micro-organisms in your home. We get scared by the idea that there's life around us. We try to kill all of it and in doing so we're more likely maker self sick than well. And Maureen Corrigan reviews new novel. She describes as a tonic for anyone who feels the world is too much with us. These days that's coming up on fresh air. You may be shocked to learn what's living in your home, the bacteria, the fungi, viruses, parasites and insects probably many more than you imagined. But if that makes you think you'd better start scrubbing right away. My guess, rob. Dunn says the real goal is to create a healthy. Balance of all the microbes that cohabit with us. You might be upsetting that balance with some anti microbial sanitizers done inventories, micro organisms and insects in our homes the way other researchers might inventory the wildlife in rain forests he and the team of scientists he works with analyze the populations of microorganisms living on floors in basements on water faucets. The surfaces of TV's in h fax systems it cetera. They often work with citizens. Scientists around the country who swab parts of their home for analysis done is the author of the new book. Home alone from microbe to millipedes camel, crickets and honeybees the natural history of where we live. He's a professor in the department of applied ecology at North Carolina State university and in the natural history museum of Denmark at the university of Copenhagen, rob done. Welcome to fresh air. So I was prepared to learn that there would be bacteria and fungi in my home. I was prepared to learn that there was a lot of micro wildlife. I was unprepared to learn how much and how really creepy some skin of b so let's start with just like an overview of like what's going on in our homes. So every surface every bit of air every bit of water in your home is alive and every house every building we've ever studied all of those things are alive. And so the the only choice you really get is a witch life. And so when we study homes, different homes have different kinds of life. In those different places. And so you look in the hot water heater. And there are microbes that are spent they've evolved to be able to to deal with really really high temperatures. If you look in your salt shaker their bacteria, like bacteria, you find in salt flats in the desert, if you look in your attic, they're interesting bugs in your act that we don't see elsewhere on your basement, you see cave animals, and so your your house has habitats. Each of those habitats is a little bit different. And there are collectively across houses hundreds of thousands of species. But the average house has thousands of species. And if you breathe in deeply right now, Terry just inhale in that breath. What's in your lungs at this very moment are thousands of species? And a couple of them are bad news. Some of them you depend on and most of them. Nobody's ever ever studied in any real way. Why are you studying them? So I started off studying rainforests. I was fascinated by the fact that you could turn over a leaf and every leaf seemed to have something new. And slowly my career drifted toward backyards, and then then eventually found myself in home with the realization that a lot of what I'd done in jungles that we could do under the bed and in showers, and we were making the same kinds of discoveries. I'd make him Bolivia or Ghana are Australia or anywhere else. And so is this realization that there were these discoveries people overlooked, right? We're right live, right where we all live, and that we can engage the public and helping us to make those discoveries. And once we figured that out. It was hard to go back. One of the things you've learned and studying the micro ecosystem of homes is that there are microbes that live in the extreme environments outdoors in a very cold temperatures are very hot temperatures that could live indoors because our homes reproduce, the extremes of the outdoors through things like the freezer and the boiler. So can you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah. So if you look at traditional home from a couple of hundred years ago would have been relatively open to the outdoor environment and the conditions in it would have been very much like the conditions outdoors a little bit buffered, but very similar, but in our modern complex homes. We've actually we've built a whole bunch of little structures in the home that replicate really extreme environments from elsewhere on earth. You know are freezers or kind of like the Arctic are ovens are like really really hot desert's. And so when we do that, we're we're pre creating habitat for species that like those conditions last year, you were an ice Lynn filming a documentary near a bubbling hot sulfurous geyser. People studying the microbes of hot water, taps and boilers and homes found similar microbes to the ones in this cell furious. Geyser? So what are they and what do they do it? What are they doing our homes? Yes. These are really amazing microbes that nobody saw them for for many many years, even though people looked in places like geysers because when we study microbes we often we bring them into the lab, and we try to grow them in conditions that we think are nice. And so it's more or less like Florida temperatures, but these microbes actually can't grow at those temperatures. The their environment has to be really hot close to boil ING water temperature to grow. And so it was only when people started to try to grow these microbes at really really hot temperatures that they appeared. And so they were first discovered in geysers like when I was near Iceland. But later, the scientists who found them an Iceland and Yellowstone decided to look around his lab to see if in other hot conditions, he might find them and in the lab hot water tap. He was actually be able to find some of the same microbes that are found in those guys IRS. And he would go on to show that if you go to laundromats that the hot water heaters laundromats are full of these microbes. And then if you turns out if you go to houses and houses, water heaters are full of them too. And they live in that super hot water that we think is sort of sterilizing our water, and they love it, and they pour out of your hot water tap when you pour some hot water the poor onto you when you take a shower, and they're fascinating little bugs are they harmful to us. They're not harmful in any way. Another study that's been done is on the biofilm of shower heads. I mean, while we're talking about some of the things that happen in the bathroom. So tell us about what's going on on showerheads. Yeah. So if you own screw in American style shower had where you have the pipe going into the shower head, and you can just unscrew the tip, and then look into the shower head what you'll see is a kind of gunk on the inside of the shower had, and that's a biofilm which is kind of an apartment that the that bacteria, collectively excrete and then live in and it keeps them buffered from the flow of water. And so they make that little apartment, and they live there. And they they eat essentially, the nutrients that are flowing in the water through the tap toward you, and so when you shower that's right above you in a little bit of that breaks off each time. You're showering and sort of sprays down on you and mostly that's harmless. But there's a group of bacteria called Nantou Bricusse, Mike bacteria, which are relatives of leprosy. And and to break yellow sus and those sometimes established and those biofilms and so couple of years ago. Oh, no fear and my lab and a group of other colleagues we decided to studying globally, those little biofilms shower heads to figure out why they sometimes seem to have these bad news bacteria in and while the other times, don't let did you find. So the couple simple take one is that people who are on municipal water supply. So Philadelphia New York that are heavily chlorinated that chlorine seems to kill most of the bacteria in the in the water system, but it leaves those Nantou Bricusse Mycobacterium alone because they're chlorine tolerant, and so it kind of creates a world in which they can live happily without much competition on the other hand. Well, water from rural environments or municipal water from some of the European cities that don't treat their water with chlorine. The Mycobacterium seem very very rare. And so we're accidents making them common by trying to kill everything. You meant sin that some of these Michael bacteria 'cause leprosy or to work you Loza. So we breeding breeding those kinds of bacteria on shower showerheads, would you like to we're not we're not we're not at risk of shower stall leprosy or to book debris kilo says just the same basic kind of of life. The biggest risk from these bacteria is that for people who are immuno-compromised there's there's some risk of lung infection and associated problems. And so the the biggest take on this for those individuals. If you're immuno-compromised some kinds of water system seem more risky than others. But they're also things people can do for example. We're we're able to show that shower heads that are made of plastic seem to have less of this micro bacteria, and what we think might be happening is that the plastic is actually a degraded by the microbes that make the biofilm eat it. And so because there's a little bit of a food source other bacteria that aren't the Mycobacterium can start to out compete the Mike O 'Bacterial. And so in a way what you're doing. If you're using plastic shower had maybe to feed the good bacteria that are killing the Mycobacterium that you don't want, and it's still early days of understanding it. So you do have a little bit of agency though, you can swap out plastic for metal. I'm still kind of hung up on the fact that bacteria actually excrete that that bacteria excrement is on our showerheads. I mean, think of think of it as building right? I mean, they just have this magical ability to make parts with excretion they mostly as construction and only a little bit as excretion zoo. Can you assure us that it's okay to take a shower, please? I it's it's okay. To take a shower. This is this is it's a very very low risk. And it's it's far less risky than say shaking hands with your neighbor. We should we stop doing that. No. You should do that too. We live in a world that's full of life. And we're always making decisions about how to avoid the very most dangerous things while still keeping contact with with the rest of life. And you know, I think we just have to knowledge that we're surrounded by life, and we need some moderation. So a lot of people now use antibacterial soaps and hand sanitizers having studied of these microbes what what are they doing to the larger microbiome of our body? And the micro ecology of our homes. Well, so first of all we we know that soap and water good old fashioned, soap and water works. Great to kill pathogens that show up on your hands. Because you shook somebody's hand who was sick or in. You know, after you go to the bathroom, and soap and water saves millions and millions of lives a year, but the advent of antimicrobial soaps. Was really solving a problem that didn't exist antimicrobial soaps don't ever work any better than good old fashioned. Soaps. And in addition, those soaps seem not only to not do a better job of killing pathogens. They actually seem to favor some kinds of microbes that we really don't want. And so if you look in the on the pump itself of one of those antimicrobial soaps, they're often pseudomonas bacteria living there that are tolerant of the anti microbial, soap, and sort of get dished out every time you're using that soap. And so when you use the soap, you're essentially killing good bacteria and giving yourself a dose of not very good ones litter, the not very good bacteria that live on those antibacterial soaps. Well, I mean, the the few studies that have looked at it very well found some pseudomonas bacteria, which can which can cause a variety of infections and disease. But I'm sure if we look globally at democrat, you'll soaps in different places, we're going to find different kinds of things living on them in differ. Different context. And so they're really a great example of where we've gone too far and trying to kill everything around us, and it's had unintended consequences. And that's a story that comes up again. And again, we get scared by the idea that there's life around us. We try to kill all of it and in doing so we're more likely to make ourselves sick than well. Let's talk about fun guy. You say walls are full of nutrients for them. What are some of the more surprising parts of houses and apartments that fungi can eat fungi and houses are a mix because on the one hand if you go into your kitchen and open your refrigerator, many of your food things have fungi in them that help to make the food themselves. And so you have these sort of useful food associated fungi. You have them in your beer, you have them in your bread. But then as you as you move away from the kitchen, you also get fungi that are just sort of drifting in and so we've found more kinds of fungi that drift into houses. And there are named kinds of fun. Gee in North America, which which is partially just a reflection of how ignorant we still are about the biological world around us that there's more fungal life in houses than we've yet even associated with any name, much less. Good understanding. But then if you focus in particular habitats in the home, you see different fungi. And so if you look in your salt shaker, there are fungi associated with the ability to live in extreme salt environments, but the one place that funny actually start to pose problems is in your walls. And so it's been known for a while that if your house gets wet there's suddenly a bunch of kinds of fungi that show up kind of miraculously out of nowhere on grow super quickly and one of those toxic black mold that people worry a lot about. But interestingly, although lots of money is made undoing abatement of that mold. Nobody had really figured out what was going on with its basic biology until a few years ago when the scientists named burger to Anderson started to try to figure out win that mold shows up. And houses where has it come from? And we'd found in our studies have houses that when we look at the dust in houses that mold is present. But it's actually quite rare. But when you when house gets wet, it's almost always there and how does it right in? And what beer gets new is that that fungus is its spores or too heavy to just float in through the window. And so that wasn't what was happening. And so she started to wonder whether it was actually coming in. I'm building materials themselves. And so this is one of the most fascinating stories of fungi in our homes is this this question of whether we're inadvertently favoring some kinds of funny. We'd really don't want. What she did was to look at brand new drywall right from the factory to figure out in that drywall. Are there already some Fundy, and she was able to show that that toxic black mold along with several other fungi, basically, come preloaded in your drywall. And so then they wait in your drywall for months or. Years or however long it takes for the drywall to get wet. And then once the drywall gets wet. They can eat your house from bottom to top with great joy and a little bit of laughter. I think you know, there's a lot of construction going on in Philadelphia where where I live and driving past buildings as they're being constructed. I'm and I'm not talking about the high rises here. But like the few stories high kind of buildings the wooden frame is sitting out in the elements for pretty long amount of time. And like they're soaking rain sometimes day after day, and I always wonder like doesn't the would kind of start to rot before the home is even built when it's exposed to rain like that. Yeah. That's a it's a great question for sure species are colonizing that would while it sitting there, and they're colonizing the wood when it sits in the lumber yard too so long as it. It eventually gets dry. It's not going to. Not very much in that short window while it's being built, but it will accumulate the spores of whichever fund you your and then just the bacterial cells that are colonizing during that time period. And so sets the stage for what might happen years down the road. It's a good example of why it's so hard to study these things because you know, which funny we find in a home might be partially influenced by what happened to the would fifty years ago fungi, and I'm not I'm not gonna say fungi anymore, say fungi. So while we're on the subject of Fundy, heat and air conditioning systems, which are moist can breed a lot of stuff. What are some of the surprises that you and other scientists have found growing h fach systems? Well, another way to think about that question is to ask. So we often are working with dust. And so we're often trying to work sort of forensically backwards to figure out which things determine what we find living in the dust of a home. And when we look at it that way, one of the big affects is whether or not you have a dog. But another one of the consistent affects is whether or not you have an H fach system. And so if you have an H Bank system, there's a set of microbes the H system seemed to favor, and they're not species, we know a ton about, but we we know that we can predictably find them in houses that are using their h back system a lot. And when you when you turn on your heat or air conditioning, and you smell in some smell comes out in sort of burst of smell. Yep. That's actually those microbes that are set up in the Bax system doing a little exhaling a little bit. That's not a good sign engine conditions. Yeah. It's a little breathing out. Is that a bad thing? If you smell that like in your car or at home, so. I think for the most part no for people who are immuno-compromised everything changes. But for the average person with a healthy immune system. It's just another kind of exposure you're getting every day. I think the bigger issue than than which things you are exposed to is how we've changed which species you aren't exposed to. And so we see far more health consequences from kids that fail to be exposed to good microbes that they need than we do from people who are being exposed to some additional h fact microbes, for example. So what does that get back to get back to homes that are too? Well, scrubbed. Yeah. You know, the homes we're trying to build. Now. We're trying to make them more and more like the space station, and some of my colleagues recently studied, this the microbes in the space station and more or less looks like a mix between a bathroom and a kitchen. It's almost all human associated microbes and things associated with food and a lot of apartments. Now, look like that too. And when that's the case, we've essentially removed all the exposures that kids and families for one. It's getting to microbes associated, but plants microbes associated with soil, and that transitions happened in the last hundred years really rapidly. And we're seeing a whole suite of auto immune disorders, including allergies, asthma, but also Crohn's disease inflammatory bowel all of which seem to be associated in one way or another with losing exposures to those microbes we used to encounter every day. My guest is rob Dunn author of the new book never home alone about the micro organisms and insects living in our homes. We'll talk more after a break and Maureen Corrigan will review a new novel by John Boyne. She says it's about the cold outer limits of ambition. I'm Terry gross. And this is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Goldman Sachs, presenting talks at GS. Goldman Sachs interview show that convenes leading thinkers to share insights, and ideas shaping the world. Recent episodes featured. Disney's Bob idir journalist, Katie Couric and GM's Mary Barra that's talks at GS available on Hulu Amazon prime yahu finance, apple podcasts, Spotify and G S dot com. That's get back to my interview with rob done. He's a professor in the department of apply to college at North Carolina State university, you compare some of the microbiology of homes that are like one or two stories or maybe three with apartment buildings where you could be living say on the twentieth floor, and it's harder for some of the bacteria or fungi to get up that high. So can you talk about the difference between like one and two story buildings and high rises? Yeah. In general, the the the more removed from the world outside an apartment or home gets the the more it's filled almost exclusively with the microbes that fall off of human bodies and food. And so if if you look at unemployment in a high rise, the the if the windows don't open very often, they tend to be filled with skin microbes FICO microbes oral microbes vaginal microbes, and you know, here, and there some food things and nothing else versus a home the first floor of a home that opens its windows pretty often, we'll have soil microbes and plant microbes and some things that fell off a bird and much more diverse and interesting set of species, but what we've tended to favor as we seal ourselves off. It's just a world. That's where we're surrounded by our own stuff. It kind of looks like a, you know, a person just dissolved when we looked at look at us from some of those apartments. Well, you're right that we lose fifty million flakes of skin a day or flakes. I soon as flakes of skin and each of those flakes have thousands of bacteria. Yeah. So if we seal everything off, that's the default. That's the space station model is that you're just sitting around in your own your own skin flakes, and the microbes eating those skin flakes, and that has been has no historical precedent. Meghan tennis is student NC state recently studied chimpanzee nests, which are probably a lot like the Nestor ancestors once built and she was basically unable to find chimpanzee associated microbes in those nests they were there, but very very very rare. And almost everything else was invited mental microbes. And so we can imagine that that's what we used to be exposed to. And now in the last couple of hundred years, we've dramatically shifted, and like if we look at daycares, you know, daycares are basically fifty to sixty percent body microbes, and there's there's no connection with the outside world anymore. When we're kind of sitting in a home with our own microbes that includes but an armpit bacteria of our day, especially interesting in any way. So I find armpit bacteria fascinating arm. So we actually have these glands in our armpits that are not really sweat glands. Their only job is to feed armpit bacteria. And and so you have very special microbes in your armpit that historically must've had a pretty important role that we still don't really understand. And and so because those glands are feeding those bacteria so much we shed lots of those microbes around the house, and I I actually think it's pretty likely that those are some of the microbes that are most important in defending us against pathogens. If if you think about your body, it's not actually just covered in skin the outside later of your body is totally microbial. And so like if a flu virus lands on your hand, the first thing that encounters is not your immune system. It's the layer of of your mic ribs on your hand. And so I think that some of what those glands are doing maybe to feed some of the microbes that best defend us from some. Of those things we actually have to worry about. Cats docks. So many people have pets what kind of microbiology. Do they introduce into our homes? So so cats and dogs, and especially dogs have a huge impact on what's in your home. And so if if we were to t- to swab your computer screen, Terry, and then look look at which microbes were on the computer screen about half of the variation between what's on your computer screen, and somebody else's computer screen is whether or not there's been a dog in that room. And and so they affect the microbes everywhere in the house, there might grabs drift up and around all over the place, and so we can actually identify whether or not there's a dog and a house just based on the microbes ninety nine percent of the time and cats have an effect too. But it's more subtle. They seem to bring in both bacteria and some fungi, and they make some things more rare. And it's it's hard to know just exactly which affects what sort of affects the dogs and cats, and they're microbes are having and they can be very complex. But one of the things we see is that people especially in urban. Environments with dogs tend to have kids who are less prone to allergy and asthma and one of the things that we think may be happening is that the dogs are actually a vehicle for the connection of those kids to just a little bit of nature the in these environments in which we've isolated ourselves so much from the rest of the world that the dirt on a dog's paw. Maybe enough connection to forestall allergy now as much at least a little bit. We don't see that effect with cats, but with dogs, it's pretty strong. And by the same token dogs in rural environments seem to have less effect than our Jeanne asthma. And we think that's because in rural environments, you're getting so many other exposures to nature that the dog matters a lot less. With cats. There's the fear of tax oh plasmas from cat feces, especially for women who are pregnant and people who have compromised immune systems. So tell us what you know about tax. Oh plasmas. Yes. The toxic bus most Moses is caused by a parasite called toxic plasma Gandhi. I that early on was studied mostly and people who studied cats and mice. It's a it's a weird parasite, and that it initially infects mice and rats and other rodents Nikkan infect, lots of kinds of mammals, but it can only have sex in cats. And so those things that initially infects have to be eaten by a cat for the parasite if affiliates hopes and dreams and so early on. It was noticed that when mice were infected with this parasite that they they they acted very differently. They ran much faster on their their little wheels. And they seem more prone to risky behavior. And so it started to be argued that will maybe the mice and rats and other animals that are infected that their brains are actually being taken over by this parasite in ways that causes them to be more likely to be eaten by cats, and it was subsequently even shown that if if rats or mice are. Affected by this parasite that they're actually less afraid of the smell of cat P. And and so this thing that should be the scariest thing in the world to them suddenly is almost even kind of a little attractive. And so it's been shown that the part of what the parasite is doing it's producing the precursor to dopamine and those rodents in their brain. And somehow rewiring what they think in do. But for most of the history of the study of toxic plasma Gandhi that was a weird thing that happened in rats, mice and cats that was interesting to basic biologist, but not relevant to humans, and but then a few years ago, a check scientists name your slept Pfleger. Had the idea that he personally had been infected by this parasite, and it made him start to be risky, and he started to wonder if people in general, if they're infected with this parasite that it changes their behavior, and what do you go onto show and others followed up on this is that. Yes. In fact, if humans are infected by this parasite, they become more risky. They're much more likely to get into car accidents, their their personality profiles, actually changed. So in some fundamental way, you become a different human. And that would be interesting an obscure except that in some countries up to seventy percent of people are infected by this parasite that gets to them either through their cats or through eating meat. That's not fully cooked. It's a it's a crazy crazy story. But it's also emblematic of when we studied these thousands of species around us, they often have impacts that are far different or far greater than we could ever imagine. So what does that say about having a cat and how to care for the cat? I think it says a cat can change you. And depending on how you feel about risk. Maybe changing you in a good way or a bad way. There is some evidence that this parasite can predispose people to sit gets a friendly. I and so that's the most serious consequence of this Paris. It doesn't cause schizophrenia, but it's associated with an increased risk. And so, you know, if this is happening at a big scale that's a pretty fundamental, change and human health and wellbeing. And and so either you cannot get a cat. You can be more careful with the kitty litter, pretty simple changes. But we do need to think about them. What do you think about pets sleeping in bed? With you pet sleeping in bed with you is very likely to change which microbes you're exposed to. And I think in some context that's likely to be beneficial change in some context that's likely to be detrimental. And we're only beginning to understand those facts. But you know, if if your dog licks itself in then looks your face, it's transferring microbes, and they're actually some studies show. Showing that that kids who have who live with dogs, some of their gut microbes are actually dog gut microbes, which suggests that that transfer can be quite complete. Let's take a short break here. And then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us. My guest is rob Dunn author of the new book, never home alone about the microbes and insects some of them quite exotic that live in our homes. We'll be right back. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from WalMart. Nava Banerjee leads the product search team for WalMart dot com. Her tame uses machine learning to try to predict customer needs and return fast, accurate search results. How did he become an intelligent personal assistant for our customers revenue than we understand them? We can give them exactly what they're looking for. And sometimes actually surprise and delight them to learn more about machine learning and the future of tech at WalMart. Visit WalMart today dot com slash machines more than twenty years. That's how. Along Olympic gymnastics, doctor Larry Nassar, abused. The girls and women who came to see him for treatment believed and new podcast from Michigan radio and NPR digs into how he got away with it for so long. I guess this rob Dunn author of the new book never home alone about the microbes insects, some of them quite exotic that live in our homes. I'm going to bring up now, the German cockroach and ask how that figures into your study of the ecology of homes, so that the German cockroach, we we often talk about it as being indestructible is that a standard. The German cockroach like what let's let's separate the German cockroach from others. It's it's the standard apartment cockroach, the cockroach that sort of most intimately lives with us. It's the movie cockroach, it's the intimately and cockroach in the same sentence. Well, how about tightly rather than intimately? It's tightly connected to the ways in which we live. And so we think of it as indestructible, but, but if we cease to exist, it would be gone instantly to its weaknesses us, it can withstand certain levels of atomic radiation. It can get really hot really cold, but it can't live without us. But it it's a really interesting species because it's one we've tried to kill again. And again, and again, and again, it's it's outwitted us evolutionary. And so the most reason outwitting event was that we make these Roach baits that are simple sugar Bates sort of like, the the we we bait the roaches to those Bates the way that we made our kids to cereal in the morning. We offer simple sugar. They. Come in in the Roach case, there's poison in the Bates and the roaches die, but a number of years ago, Joel Silverman. One of my colleagues observed some roaches that just weren't interested in the Bates. And you know, you put out the Bates, and they would just walk around them. It was like they didn't care about sugar anymore, and what he was able to discover that actually evolved a distaste for sugar and recently it's been shown that they did that by basically rewiring the receptors in their brain to perceive sugar as disgusting. And so we imagine that you know, what we're just gonna kill everything, but ev- evolution is so amazingly fast. And these species so committed in some way or another to living with us that we always lose in this game. Now, we have roaches that we put out sugar, and they just don't care. Do you think that's because the roaches that like sugar were killed off by the bait? And those that didn't are the ones that survived and they bred roaches that didn't like sugar. Yeah. That's right. So the if we imagine that the that Roach population at a little bit of genetic variation initially any roaches that like sugar a little bit less. We're much more likely to succeed. And so that's what what happened. So some of those roaches had jeans that made them less interested in sugar and that Lenny inches prospered. Interestingly those same jeans seemed to make those roaches less sexy to other roaches. But that doesn't doesn't compensate for the the how much better they do just by being able to avoid the poison. So they avoid the POS poison. They're less sexy. They're willing to live with it. So if you if you had roaches in your home, would you use would you call in the exterminator? Yeah, roaches are tricky. They're they're the they're the one that I feel differently about so German roaches. I would put out some of the new Bates that that they're still attracted to there's a different sugar in them and other roaches. If there aren't too many of them, I live peaceably. With and for the most part, you can control which species are in your home. But by which things are left around, you know, if they're a little bit to food left around it favors roaches. If you clear that food out, they become less and less common. And the other thing that notices that lots of these roaches have enemies in your house. And so the spiders are helping to control the roaches. There's actually a teeny tiny wasp that we find in most houses that lays its eggs in the egg cases of the roaches, and then the little baby wasps crawl around and eat the living baby roaches and fly out do they sting and how big are they they don't sting. They're totally harmless. They just fly around your house doing good work on your behalf, and they're like an eighth of an inch long. They're teeny teeny. And and so even when they're you don't notice them. What is the most surprising thing you've found in your own home? When we started studying, the insects in homes and other arthropods if you would've asked me, how many kinds of spiders, where am I? The house. I would have said, well, there's the long narrow one and then there's the chubby one. And as we started studying homes, it became clear that no nobody has just two kinds of spiders, most houses have like ten kinds of spiders, and my house was one of those houses. And and so that was surprising. Here were all these kinds of spiders that were around me for a decade in my house, and I had noticed them and Matt Bertone who's an entomologist at the university ain't gonna ID anything went into my house to search for all the the insects and other arthropods in my house, and he came back with a giant jar. It was like black with life. And they said, you got ten kinds of spiders, including one that's a spitting spider doesn't build a web just sort of walks around. And looks for fruit flies and spits venomous silk on them, and he found one of those in the stairwell going down to my basement. And there's there's still one they're walking around it's tiny. It's wonderful. I never ever noticed. It it. But once he saw it, then I could see it. But until he saw it. I was totally blind to it. You know, a lot of people take probiotics that are, you know, capsules or through food like yogurt things that have like the good guy bacteria. So that you are creating in your gut a good bacteria environment instead of an imbalance of bacteria in your gut. Do you think someday there's going to be something similar to that for homes to create a good microbial ecology in your home? Yeah. I I hope so it's it's not there now. But, but I I look forward to a time when we can essentially Gardner homes, fill them with species that benefit us, and and push out the species that don't and the the closest I think we come to that is in the context of making foods. And so we studied Salvador Brad a lot. And when you make a sour dough starter that starter has a bunch of microbes that produce lactic acid, and that lactic acid is key to the starter. But it also kills off any other bacteria, and so it's kind of a garden that weeds itself, and for me, that's a metaphor for what we'd like to have in our homes a garden that benefits us that's beautiful and wondrous an interesting, but also in some way weeds itself, so we're not constantly going to war or done. Thank you so much for talking with us. Oh, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, Terry. Brad done is the author of the new book, never home alone. He's a professor in the department of applied. Ecology at North Carolina State university after we take a short break marine Corrigan will review a new sinister novel by John Boyne. This is fresh air support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from little passports, the award winning subscription service that brings a world of discovery to your front door every month with the early explorers subscription each month package arrives full of activities like uncovering fossils from around the world fund souvenirs like ancient Greek coins and hands on games. Like coloring, the cosmos all curated for their curious minds. Learn about our holiday offers at little passports dot com slash fresh. Hey, everyone. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you love to find in here, great new music, but you don't know where to start let also considered be your guide. It's NPR's weekly music discussion and discovery podcast with tons of new songs and artists to fall in love with here all songs considered in the NPR one app or wherever you listen to podcasts. John broin. Is an Irish writer whose published novels for both the adult and young adult audience one of his historical novels. The boy in the striped pajamas was made into a film in two thousand eight Bruins versatility is on display in his latest novel a ladder to the sky, which is a sinister story of literary theft. Here's book critic, Maureen Corrigan review, take Meg wallets novel. Now, also a film called the wife about a brazen case of literary ghost writing and cross it with Patricia Highsmith classic Ripley stories about a suave psychopath. And you've got something of the crooked charisma of John Boignes new novel a ladder to the sky what a tonic this book is for anyone who feels the world is too much with us. These days maliciously witty area, dight and ingeniously constructed a ladder to the sky. By explores the cold outer limits of ambition. It also raises a question about intellectual property rights, namely who two stories belong to the people who live them and sometimes write them or the people who need them the most the answer here isn't as straightforward as you'd think Boyne Zante hero is named MAURICE swift. When we first spot him in nineteen Eighty-eight across a crowded dining room. Maurice is a gorgeous young man in his early twenties working as a waiter in a whisper Lynn hotel, he's graced with full lips and a mop of dark hair, and he exudes the sweet and intoxicating scent of boyish, perspiration that besotted. Description comes courtesy of our narrator a much older gay writer named Eric aquaman whose arrived in Berlin from England. To give a reading of his prize winning novel dread. Eric is lonely and he invites MAURICE to have a drink with him. They talk about books because surprise surprise MAURICE wants nothing more than to be a successful writer himself. There's one hitched though, MAURICE rights beautifully. He has a gift for language. But is he tells Eric I'm not very good at thinking plots. I feel like all the stories in the universe have already been told. Sometimes I think I would be better as a musician. The type who writes the words, but let someone else come up with the melody Eric takes pity on this aspiring young writer and hires him to be his assistant in return MAURICE, who's a literary vampire encourages Eric to unburden himself and talk about an appalling incident from his own you. Truth in which he aided Nazis in World War, Two Germany, MAURICE promptly appropriates the story for the plot of his debut novel, which becomes a bestseller. Interviews MAURICE announces that his character is based on Eric Ackerman who in turn is fired from his post as a university professor and whose books are swept off the shelves of bookstores across the world as critics and scholars self righteously debate, whether an author's works can ever be separated from his life Offerman descends into disgrace, obscurity and MAURICE blithely bounces off to suck plot ideas out of his next victim part of Boignes own brilliance. As a storyteller is that up until the very last chapter when we readers finally enter into Maurice's. Mind we hear instead from a succession of narrators fade it to become more rhesus pray that approach only intensifies Maurice's enigmatic allure, and you news own audacious act of literary appropriation Boyne sets a chapter in Italy where MAURICE visits and tries to manipulate none. Other than gore Vidal, the legendary silver-tongued writer and public intellectual. It's a rollicking wicked section that tackles issues about authority vanity and one up manship boiling himself doesn't share Maurice's difficulties with generating plot a ladder to the sky keeps twisting and turning in such slyly unpredictable ways that honestly, I sometimes left out loud at Boignes, ingenuity. But even the most. Resourceful. Conman ultimately runs up against the limits of age by the close of this novel MAURICE is no longer beautiful. Here's a section where he scrutinizes one of his most important body parts. I glanced down at my hands which had spent so much of their lives typing away at a keyboard? Before me my recollection of them was as smooth collaborators. But now the skin was tight and my fingers appeared bony the nails pockmarked with large semi circles spreading outward from the cuticle 's like slowly exploding planets, I was growing old. It was clear and not gracefully. In addition to all the other questions a ladder to the sky ruminates on one of the most intriguing is the power of beauty to dazzle. And in particular to make those people who possess it seem smarter and more talented than they may be after reading a ladder to the sky. He may never look at an author's book jacket photo the same way again. Marine Corrigan teaches literature at Georgetown University. She reviewed a ladder to the sky by John Boyne tomorrow on fresh air. We'll talk about the exploitation of actresses during Hollywood's classical era Defillo, the desires of the men who had power over them and the fantasies of male ticket buyers. My guest will be Karina Longworth author of seduction sex lies and stardom and Howard uses Hollywood she hosts the podcast about the classical era of Hollywood, you must remember this. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineers Bentham our associate producer of digital media is Molly seavy nesper. Roberta shorrock directs the show. I'm Terry gross.
Micro Wave: You Mite Want To Shower After This
"Heo Matt Safai here with shortwave reporter Emily Kuang Hey. Hey you. So first things first big day. Are celebrating short waves one year anniversary. Happy. Anniversary Baddie happy. Anniversary cone. I've so excited about this. It's it's been a whole year. He lost shortwave nothing really happened in science this past year, but we made it work. It's been it's been a wild ride. Let's say that let's say that and you promised me for our anniversary episode I could talk about whatever I wanted. Well, all great relationships involve compromise. So Curie are here we are indeed Ma'am I thought we could celebrate with a microwave episode about how you're never truly alone. Oh. Okay. That's nice. You're definitely still gonNA feel that way when I tell you, I O K I, knew there was a hatch. Don't make me regret this. What is it? Well, it's simply that you me most likely every adult out there have microscopic mites living in our skin. Oh. You made me regret it. They've been found in lots of places on your body and yes. One of those places is your face. MITES. Like bugs on your face. Well. Okay. So technically don't worry. No they are not insects. They are Arachnids, which is different. So More closely related to ticks or spiders. This isn't better. Better let's just let's just all have an open mind here. I will point out that you and the rest of our listeners were living your life totally fine before I told you this. Okay, we're going to talk leader because this is not an anniversary. So today on the show at all, celebrate our one year anniversary by talking about the might have done nothing wrong that live on your skin, what they can teach us about where we've come from and what they do on your face while you sleep at night what is that supposed to me? I'm fire and this is sure away from NPR. This message comes from NPR SPONSOR IBM. Today isn't a restart. It's a rethink that's why am businesses are partnering with? IBM. To change how they work from supply chains to customer service let's put smart to work visit IBM DOT com slash think to learn more. Okay. So this episode, we've got another one of our microwaves. So a few science tidbits in some listener mail and today we are talking about the microscopic Mites that live on our bodies the adult Mites look like little worms with eight legs on their kind of top half we call it and the Mites live for a few weeks or so this is incredibly gross, but ultimately, I support you. Stop you. Today's expert. Megan Thomas is quite used to the reaction that you're having right now. Emily. So I told her I would defend how cool they are which preceded. I'm very excited to hear that because a lot of people really freak out and I get a lot of crazy emails so. These days Megan's a post doc at the University of California San Diego. But before that when she was at North Carolina State University, she studied these Mites and she wanted to know just how prevalent for in humans. So she and her team looked for DNA evidence like. People's faces the first study that we did on them. We found them on one hundred percent of adults that we tested, and now we have looked at thousands of people and have yet to find someone without them. I. Stop you right there because I've never heard scientists say one hundred percent on anything of adults. Let's be clear. I mean there's also this historical paper that shows that they were found on one hundred percent of adult cadavers. So there's also that out great. Yeah I was worried you weren't going to find a way to bring dead bodies into this happy anniversary. Aren't you supposed to give people like paper something for their first year anniversary? There are multiple scientific papers in this episode you're welcome. I got. I got you. Go. On finish it up. In what's really interesting to me is that for an animal that lives on potentially all of us, we don't really know that much about them. We actually don't know what they eat. So there's been some people that have said they eat dead skin cells or bacteria or maybe potentially the oils that are secreted from the subconscious glands. So Meghan says it's really hard to study what they've eaten because they're so small like it's really difficult to differentiate between what's on them versus what's inside them. If that makes sense she said, she thinks they're probably eating microbes like fungi, but that's yet to be proven. But what are they like do all day? Well. You know Emily Bay live their lives just like the rest of us and they shouldn't be judged for that. They typically hang out in your poor especially during the day because they're photosensitive and so they. Don't really like the light, and so they hang out in your pores and do there might things and then at night you go to sleep they come out on your face and they hate. have sex, and then they go back into their pores. I just. I mean I. Knew I had depor's emily I'll just stop you right there. It does it does get worse before it gets better. So they lay these really large eggs there about a third of the size of their body. So you have little mites that are hatching all over your face. If any given Time magazine I thought we were going to try to make these might seem palatable for people. You know what I mean. That's very good spin on it. That's not endearing. One, you should've been a PR campaign manager for invertebrates do. I'm glad someone's having fun out there. You know you're getting it wrong. You're starting to get finding light love. Here's a thing in the overwhelming majority of people. These mites don't seem to be doing anything harmful, which brings me to my favorite thing about these mice and arguably the none of this has been your favorite. Let's listen. It's arguably the least gross part too because they are. So closely associated with us we can actually learn things about ourselves from them. So the Mites that you get when you are born from your parents most likely those are the Mites that you typically have throughout your life, your populations days really stable. So we can actually look at the genetic of the Mites Intel where your family is from historically whether your family is from Asia or Europe or Africa. So you can tell where your family is from based on the genetics of the mites themselves. Yeah. I mean that seems to be true in a lot of cases I mean who needs. Ancestry DOT, com right. Just like talked to the Mites on your face and you know like what's wild to me is that these are the only critter of their type, the only arthropods, not like microbes like bacteria, but an animal that leaves really close with. So many of us for generations and like you know although it might feel a little gross initially, it's pretty remarkable plus you know certainly possible they could even be helpful. So they could be removing certain types of bacteria or fungi from the skin or protecting your body from infection, and you know you can think of it as having just thousands of friends living on you. So you're never alone that way. Nice. I told you this episode was about how you're never alone emily. Thank you for being you. I really I. This is Nice. It's nice. I like those. And I mean, how could we ever really be alone when we have hundreds of thousands of shortwave listeners? Showing us all the love on a regular basis. It's true. It's true. They're out there. So I WANNA turn to our listener mail bag. We got a note from Nick in. Wisconsin. Who wrote us about the Shortwave Mad Lib. From back in May and we did together do you remember that? Yes I do listeners. If you missed that one, do yourself a favor and go back to it? It is classic ten, ten content. In my opinion I mostly wrote it to amuse Mattie anyway. Nick is a PhD student researching the microbiology of ANAEROBIC Digesters, L-, micro-biology, and wrote. Today I heard your Little Mad Lib from back on May Twenty Fifth and it absolutely turned my day around the lab was really beating me down nick of walking off and never returning to research. Again, we're pulling up Harnack I feel you buddy enter your silly shortwave Madelyn and I, had a whole new perspective on my day. I'm so grateful for your light hearted humor and accessible science communications all the Best Nicholas. Well, thank you nick. I'm GonNa tell you what Nick you're going to get through it, and if you don't WanNa get through it just leave. They can't keep you. Their neck can't keep there. I do the show now to San. We keep it real. Okay, and here's a note from Sean who wrote about last week's microwave on talking to plants and whether it helps them grow kwong. You got this one for a short answer science says probably not but doesn't hurt that fair. To Sean said, I run before and after school program for an elementary school and we have a house plant that the kids have named Badu. Zero clue. That name. Impresses. The kids like to tell her she's ready and will complain to her about anything and everything, and she's thriving in our little window might not be scientifically backed but I am a firm believer it helps shadow to Dune and the children who talked to her. Glad you do. You can write us at short wave NPR DOT ORG that is it from us today we wanna take a moment though to say thank you. Honestly thank you for listening to us for the last year making this show for you has seriously been the honor and the opportunity of a lifetime and we love doing it. We love it. We love it and we promise to stay curious and weird with you clearly, and to bring you science coverage that you can trust. Here's to another year. Champion I'd. Do you not have camping. Okay. I've champion still five o'clock. This episode was produced by Brent Bachman edited by the way and checked by. Beating I mattie Safai and I'm Emily Kwong thanks for listening to shortwave. From NPR. I'm Rodney Komori. This episode of louder than a riot. Did bias against rap lyrics seal the fate of no limits. View. This should be incarcerated and I, know that his newsy got him incarcerated. They got the wrong guy. This. Now to the louder than a riot podcast from NPR.
Worlds loudest bird, a six-fingered lemur, a microbrewery in your gut, earthworms and the climate underground, a patient researcher and a question of indigestion
"So Dr What's The science behind this season I'm willing to go where no seventh-grader has ever gone before to find you the Hi guys it's me tie pool and I'm back and I have way more questions things like water animals saying to each other why space can you guess what that sound is alcohol in their own valleys and how climate change might be helping earthworms invade Canada all this and more today and I'm delighted to bring some great stories this week like the one about an exotic primate that we've just learned has six fingers the accurate impression of the call it does sound like that but the radio doesn't allow us to play it anywhere near loud enough the modest bells and he thinks it's a great example of sexual selection gone right over the top Dr Paul does welcome to quirks and quirks thanks happy to be here and the patient researcher a scientists cancer diagnosis leads to a change of life and a change of her. Life's work here I was hi asks why this is a CBC podcast modest act it may be the loudest bird in the world biologist Dr Jeff Photos and his colleagues measured the bell call in its native habitat so tell me about this Belfort what's it like oh it's it's a really distinctive animal so if you ever see it you'll you'll never confuse it with anything else you'll never forget that you've seen it word produces that call at the kind of volume you normally get from a close encounter with a jet engine or a rock concert that leaves your ears ringing for days in maiden call of a pigeon sized bird called the Bell Bird that lives in the mountains of the northern Amazon in Brazil and that recording may not have given you a complete and you'll never forget that you've heard it so there are actually four species of birds three are in South America in one Central America but all the billboards they tend uncorked zinc works ooh is talking about you know again treatment and then I was diagnosed and then I totally got it plus will look into a yeast infection they can lead to people for mentoring Hi I'm torture sitting in for Bob McDonald Bob's away this week so this is a rare chance for me to sit in the host chair you might guess an ambulance siren busy European city or an evacuation alarm on a factory floor but in fact that's a mating call the this is more than just a little note there's a bone or piece of cartilage when we looked really carefully at it we even notice that there's a fingerprint also this story of a bird whose mating call it's definitely unique L. A. Mountain up to more than a kilometer altitude in this very remote region in the northern Amazon in the northern part of the all is so loud it makes his potential partner Flinch so what the female does he backs off she flies back furiously anticipating what's going to happen a forest and you can hear multiple birds singing at any time and they're pretty vigorous they're singing all day and so it becomes the soundtrack to an experience record taking this recording did it feel like a rock concert well fortunately we're not that close to the birds I mean we were loud birds can get and what number are we talking about for the louder of the songs those notes are registering and at he can piercing but how loud are we talking about well so let me just start by saying that what you just played a montage of two different songs a bit higher pitch afterwards the second song is much louder than the first song by about nine decibels and that's the one that is shattering the published record at least of how and so you can probably hear a transition when you heard that the first song is the more common song it's just pretty much a pure note with a second note that follows male the makes the call only the male which is a great clue as to what the song is for so let's let's hear that call again to hang out on the tops of very tall tropical trees and very often on mountains to what we had the the real incredible opportunity to do is to ski Zil and when you get up to this location you're I'd I with these birds and then you hear them and it's just an incredible electric performance is it just win the attention of females how does the female react to this screaming in her face well at some level she must approve it and she must like it otherwise up and down on the purchase a little bit he does really cool posture where he spins around and orients himself to face away from the female he tucks his tail down any liens so what are those clues why why are they making this crazy loud call the only way that we can account for this is that the males are doing what they can to try to mate with females and females must have a preference for males who do this kind of like the acoustic equivalent of a p cocktail it is exuberant wouldn't have evolved so females her they look different in their plumage they tend to be sort of greenish yellow with some dark streaking they're more cryptic hundred and seventeen decibels if we use the average metric and hundred and twenty five decibels at their peak so when you're there you're standing in front or near this bird asteroid thing where he pivots on the perch and he swings around so as to sing that second note right where the female would have been els are somehow advertising something about themselves that females would wanna know and when you have that then mail start competing with each other to be the ones to if she didn't know what was coming what the female does as she backs off she flies back furiously anticipating what's going to happen she still stays within the vicinity and we weekly striking and females are interested they're serving the males and we watched females approaching males and the male sees this and then he starts getting kind of nervous body down and he's got this really cool Waddell it looks like a worm that hangs from the top of his beak she starts to come up close to him and then he start he does this amazing is involved so one is that the abdominal muscles really thick and really well defined either to protect the Abdo abdomen of the Bird Komo shared inheritance cracks as we get at something like a sixty feet which is probably saving are you know it's making it easier for us to do the work is really loud and the sound resonates through the on some cases she was within about four meters but at least he wasn't pointblank range and you have to see this thing to believe it and it's just straight out of Hollywood it's it's like a camp movie it would fit right in with rocky Har it's insane wow this isn't a huge bird so how making such a loud call I think there's there's three sort of trick that we see with musical instruments and so if you look at let's trombone or trumpet or any of those sorts of instruments they always have flared horns does it generates these incredible forces at must within the body or to actually squeezed like bellows and push air through the bird the second component selection what about the other animals in the rainforests I mean how are they responding to this incredible noise so in our paper we also got I bet he ate all program around it and so it must be to brace the membranes and to contract the membranes a little bit to get them ready for this huge pulse of air that's GonNa go whipping past it's in a really wonderful forest it's almost like Lord of the rings you mentioned before that the it's the males that are making this call and that's gives clues about why they do it ace recordings of what we would consider to be the second loudest bird yet registered in the world which is has the wonderful name it's called the screaming on the island of Madagascar off the east coast of Africa there are lots of interesting even Dr Jeff Pohjola is a biologist from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst don't stand out so the the White Belfort is Snow White wit and when it opens its beak it has this really jet black interior of the it's it's very visually striking as well as so in other words bell birds have a kind of built and musical instrument capacity and with time it can become exaggerated and this is what we talk about in the field of sexual if you can open your beak you then come to the table with this adaptation that will allow you to make sounds that are very loud it's the same it's known for a lot of things so that the fingers are definitely really crazy the also mentioned the big eyes and they have these giant bat like ears and they've got the largest brain Azzaro animals but the I may be the strangest of them all the I is a Lemur its nocturnal about the size of a cat is that there's the sound Oregon which actually has the vibrating tissues that's the sound source in birds that's called the ceilings these hearings has huge sheath of musculature a wicked claw and what turns out to be really weird about its fingers is something naturalists have somehow missed in the two centuries that it's been known to see the third thing and this is the actually the part that I find most interesting they're being essentially occupies their whole face they regularly opened the beak more than ninety degrees and yeah exactly how long are the fingers if the is arm was scaled up to the size of a human arm than the fingers would be about twelve inches long your own it shown up basically buy it's louder neighbor as going to say maybe it's just jealous could be it's like Oh yeah I'm trying to show how loud I can get in you know there's this Roese long middle finger into the hole and that third finger actually has a ball and socket joint in the middle of it and so it can swivel almost like a shoulder and corks thank you it's wonderful to be here so what drew you to study the I in your work actually I've been interested in Lemurs for decades so I started studying lemurs when I was a teenager and kind of fell in love with that group and I went to Madagascar about a dozen times over the last twenty years there just an amazing HAP- tap tap along it and they actually are able to echo locate like a bat so no other primate can do that and they can essentially create a mental map of these trails arm muscles so most of the force that you use for firing your fingers like when you're typing is actually produced by muscles that are in your forearm array of animals and the is the most amazing one of all and so it's known for these extremely long and thin fingers why are the finger so long yeah so rejang and what they do is they find a rotting piece of wood or dead tree and they will take that creepy long third finger and a little piece of cartilage sticking off of it and then also to other muscles plus that abductor policies longest and we realized that this is more than just a little note and Dr Hartson rose is a comparative anatomist and an associate professor in the Department of Biological Sciences at North Carolina State University welcome to quirks under the would that grubbs have carved into the rotting wood and they'll pick a hole into that would almost like a woodpecker and then they stick that the big is bat like years and sharp teeth but what might really draw your attention is it's long thin fingers the Middle One tipped actually in your hand and we're studying different muscles in this very peculiar animal and one of the muscles that goes to the thumb so muscle called abductor policies longer fingers are like three inches long but then you discovered that the I has a sixth gear so tell me about that yeah it was really quite remarkable my students and I were studying the four lance there are six of them Dr Adam Hart Stone Rose and his colleagues discovered this while they were exploring the anatomy of the lemurs forearm enhance we've looked at but a little piece of it went to a weird place and it went kind of to the structure in the wrist and as we look more carefully at that structure we yes it's the muscle that allows you to hitchhike efficiently by sticking your thumb out we traced that muscle and part of it went to the thumb as it was supposed to and as it does in all other primates distinct piece of anatomy actually might have an important functional role how surprised were you when you found this very surprised I never really expected to exp finger were kinda going against the majority of mammal so what's the pseudo finger thumb thing doing there yeah it's a really interesting all of that fine muscle control can actually produce more than a kilogram of force that's about half of the body weight of an and so this little itty bitty the P. has seemed to be pretty annoyed when there's a loud sound in the environment and indeed at one point we were recording shelbert and then right how big is it it's pretty small and it's kind of hidden within the palm of the hand a little bit so it's maybe only about a centimeter long but oh kind of weasel through all of the little grub tunnels and it has a needle like claw in the end so then stabs the grubs and pull them out one by one and so that's one of the main food assist for this really bizarre primate so at taps with the one finger figures out where the grubs are and then sticks it skinny finger in and grabs all the groups history so as you know there are very few animals that have accessory digits so a lot of animals have actually lost digits so it's easy to think about like here at we heard the screaming start doing it's warm ups on and it just seemed really concerned and it's true that maybe it doesn't WanNa get blasted out or doesn't want to go actually discover a novel piece of anatomy that had gone unnoticed especially in species that we've known about for almost two hundred years we're talking about very rare that there are animals that add new ones so the most famous example of a six digit is in the giant panda that it turns out is really remarkably they lost the ability to be used in locomotion and for grasping of objects and so- evolution needed to find a way to add back there's a bone or piece of cartilage muscular control and when you look really carefully at it we even notice that there's a fingerprint and so this it really is an accessory digit realized that it wasn't just a little bone that is in a lot of primates cut a radio assessment but not only did it go to that radio assessment but that radio assessment had of any lamer relative to body size and they use these eyes and ears and brains for this really peculiar type of foraging behavior that's called tap for very efficiently with those extremely long spindly fingers so the spindly fingers are able to do that remarkable tap foraging behavior but in order to do that similar to that of the eye and we think that the is six finger serves as a grasping implement they lost the ability to grasp some of that ability into the is hand and it did so by creating this kind of novel convergence structure it seems like a lot of work allow this Madagascar is a magical place. It's a really fascinating place to be if you're interested in primatology than Madagascar is the place to be because that's a place where a lot of the amazing diversity is in the the primate fauna there are now recognized about one hundred species of lemurs and they all diverged from some original primitive Lemur that made its way over on a raft from mainland Africa millions and millions of years ago solution early speaking to develop really long fingers and to do one task and then have to evolve an entire new digit what are the pressures on Madagascar heart stone rose is a comparative anatomist and an associate professor in the Department of Biological Scientists at North Carolina State University started noticing strange changes in his behavior. The first thing that I noticed after the surgery was that my husband wasn't behaving versus cows all of those lineages started out with about five fingers but they went in an evolutionary direction that reduced those pistol digits and it's is that normally would be filled by other animals and those animals just simply didn't exist in this weird and wonderful place and the I happen to find its own very bizarre normally he would be slurring his speech have glassy eyes and he'd be very tired sleeping for days on end our niche so partly it acts like a woodpecker so in that top foraging behavior partly it acts like a squirrel it eats a lot of nuts and it uses those crazy long t that similarly Phil Amazing spaces are you know look more closely at other lemurs now yeah for sure we're going to look at other Lemurs we're going to look at other mammals as well took cut through and then it does a lot of things that essentially no other animal does and so the I just feels this amazing space and there are a lot of lemurs because I knew that there was no alcohol being consumed but yet I couldn't prove it he wasn't drinking but there was alcohol into Nado system sometimes seems a huge amount without a single sip his blood alcohol level could shoot up as high as point six four four eight times higher in the hospital when we were told that my husband's body was an alcohol withdrawal it was very confusing and very frustrating and when they got to Madagascar they found an island continent that was really under occupied so there is so much space in so many different ecological niches more serious in the following few months did not have started having seizures and would be rushed to the hospital the doctors would ask if do not oh had been drinking each time it higher than the legal limit a year passed with D'Amato being hospitalized every few weeks they went to Thanksgiving dinner with Michelle's cousins who are both doctors they had an idea they suggested Michelle look into Auto Brewery Syndrome where people's GI tracts turned into microbreweries. I I remember being in shock that something like this even existed it turned out this syndrome isn't entirely unknown to science but it's nearly going to die I don't want to bury him the endocrinologists said let me make some phone calls I'll call you back and then within a few About four years ago did not Janata had a simple surgery nothing too serious but after the surgery his wife Michelle hundred in all so I called my husband's endocrinologist crying one day in begged for help and I said please find me a doctor he's Aug. of getting all the information I could on Drought Brewery Syndrome before I saw this patient there were sporadic your heart stone rose thank you so much for taking a gas car today yeah let's all go together sometime absolutely I'll be right behind you excellent Dr Tone to physicians Michelle went from doctor to doctor to doctor to find someone who knew anything about this condition and how to treat it over syndrome I had an outdoor totally heard of similar cases but had never seen such a case so I took the I'm a singer welcome to the program thank you so I'm curious what went through your mind when you got that call about patient who might have this thing called Auto Bruce allowing fungi and east form to proliferate suppressing bacteria that would otherwise inhibit fungal over reports but nobody studied this condition in depth or had any kind of Plan Investigation Protocol to study hours he had told me to make an appointment with Dr Weck doctor Wick would take the case Doctor Wick is short for Dr Persona Wickremesinghe you know I know it all bell birds total show off and here I am looking like a loser Dr Potus thank you so much it was a pleasure thank you one of the CO authors on a new case report published this week in the British Medical Journal about Auto Brewery Syndrome sometimes called Gut Brewery Syndrome or gut I wrote which would then convert sugars to alcohol to prove if I had to collect uncontrollable and also if I did find a fungus to find which antifungal would be catious in getting rid of this fungus there so if that all these troubles had started just after he had surgery at which time he was also exposed to antibiotics -tations syndrome Dr Wickremesinghe is a gastroenterologist from Staten Island New York who's now treated ten cases of this mysterious syndrome Dr Wicker and it was up premise that the antibiotics changed the environment the milieu of the intestine antifungal sensitivity testing it was the antibiotics that were killing off the bacteria and that kind of cleared room for the fungus to start growing numbers is it always fungus that causes the syndrome very recently we knew that only fungi the east forms can convert should and also from the large intestine the colon and do studies to show bacteriological and Fungal cultures spacious or how to treat them how did you assess Tanada when he came to see you so when I took a long history but became a parent eating the raw material for making alcohol any kind of carbohydrate sugars so one of our tenants of therapy initially be put them on a carbohydrate free died and give them the appropriate antifungal that we found by testing to be probiotic to multi bacterial probiotic battalion any fungal elements to mimic more than normal got back everybody is different you mentioned the treatment protocol so did it involve any probiotics they roll up robotics is uncertain and assault in this kind of syndrome everybody's bacterial bio means different So that your gut microbes are totally different to mind I needed stomach and intestinal tract secretions as well as secretions from the end of the small intestine the what started but our thinking was that by giving a finger strain in a large dose to try to competitively action from a surgery but then to treat the auto brewery symptoms themselves one of the symptoms of auto brewery is that when your body is converting in carb's to alcohol you have a slight fever so doctors always assumed the fever meant that there was some kind of infection so there were basically normally involves got everybody lives in cohabitation so to speak the good bugs tried to keep the bed bugs down eight incidents of relapse if the patient is re exposed to antibiotics or some other trigger that puts them over the top and answers rest your eyes prepare your ears for all new episodes of when he beat fungi and after the six weeks of treatment monthly started tapering off the doors later on be changed making a bad situation and making it worse their whole journey just sounds so so awful I mean how severe can this syndrome be for some of these patients I ninety five percent of them wow so why do some people I mean I've had antibiotics why do some people have their antibiotic Treatment Ak Shift in the particular fungus that be isolated and all the ten cases that you looked at how many of them were caused by antibiotic use I would allows fungi to over grow gate I'd like to bring a clip from Michelle conversations she said did not give antibiotics over and over again I to treat that you start patients on a so called key to Genyk died they need all the fat and protein they want but don't eat any hydrate the six weeks defeated go to our call for example B make beer by using the fungus saccharomyces of ACI well brewers East but there was a study recently reported from China in large fourteen thousand cohort of patients via the isolated Ed la bacteria that could do the same thing so these fungi are sugars. These are carded that the patient is studio composition does this mean that there's a cure for this syndrome I would feed thumb patient via hoping to kill but there is a definite so if you change your bacteria by by giving an antibiotic it allows fungi to grow which may be day when normally in small or it can be bad I mean this particular patient ended up in one instance with acute pancreatitis that is inflammation of the pancreas caused by the elevated blood alcohol levels this is a common entity in other patients. Who are alcoholics? We're kind of told us for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts Radio One I'm torture sitting in this week for Bob McDonald diversity patterns that are influenced by the climate the study covered fifty seven countries and gather data from nearly seven thousand sites including many in Canada vast forests one of the contributing researchers is Dr Sandy Smith a professor of forestry at the University of Toronto and the Canadian Earth Rim picture ecosystem engineers on the planet the humble earthworm a team of nearly a hundred and fifty scientists from around the world looked at global earth rooms this week a large scale study was released looking at the way climate is transforming the soil through its effects on one of the least appreciated but most important is particularly interesting because they shouldn't be here at all and climate is helping the worms on invasive March North Dr Smith and no worms underground survived glaciation and the only place they survive was below the the glaciation that they actually call it the worm line and it's moving north we had done a number of surveys I work in forestry and when it came to my attention that they were invasive my focus has also invasive species captured my interest and attention more what do you mean they're not native to I grew up with yeah everyone loves the worm and they always say here you know aren't they good for the garden realized that they would have a huge pretty significant impacts on our forested landscapes and of course because they're not native to Canada it just are thank you so much thank you for the interview Dr Persona Wickramasingha is a gastroenterologist in Staten Island New York you're listening to Cork's and quirks on CBC come to quirks and Cork's thank you so let's begin with this very very large scale study what was your role I was one of the many over in another state and if four patient is presently in jail for the last two years I think it takes a huge toll on you looking and sounding and smelling anyb- reiterated their social consequences at the workplace etc people think you're across a drinker I know of he was arrested for drunk while driving but data was not believed by the legal authorities certain forty authors I've been very interested in earthworms for a long time as an entomologist only an entomologist love earthworm and so the and northern Alberta probably the Yukon as well if you look for them and everywhere Fisher or a farmer is you'll find worms why mention these twenty-three-year-old patient one of my first three patients that I had who worked in a brewery got got fomentation in Rome breath of course as the soil warms up where's the natural remind it's below the Great Lakes technically but of course you can find earthworms up and Moose Not all indications of climate change are obvious like violent rainstorms melting glaciers or baking heat waves some of them are buried under our feet I'm in a organically through worms and they reduce the duff layer the leaf litter layer on forest floors which changing sort of the soil ecosystem wherever they arrive so aptly called ecosystem engineers for better or for worse though older winters or ice storm conditions you get this shallow litter layer that really affects actually plant survival carbon organic and available to plants and micro organisms and other invertebrates that maybe in the soil so and along with that is calcium and and earthworms are ecosystem engineers so how much have they engineered our Canadian ecosystem being that they're not supposed to be here well we're just finding out what those mouth and and take in what they can they take in leaf litter they utilize the carbon they poop it out into their castings and that again makes the actually ingested by earthworms and that may or may not usually it doesn't help to have earthworms eating seeds so that will change the capacity it has implications because our trees heavy volved to have a specific depth of leaf litter and if you start to collapse that through warm worms are doing in our forest ecosystems but the work this coming out of Wisconsin and Minnesota and New York and in Kansas and other parts of the US has really agents Cetera that all these nutrients are speeded up taken from sort of an inorganic form in soil to very rapidly assimilated foreign temper but more importantly the boreal and the further north where it's cooler wetter for longer periods of time accelerating those processes will really change what tree species conditions and were predicting under climate change that that's what's going to happen so given that they are invasive and changing our forests what's the situation in Canada as far as earthworms and climate well the situation I guess is that we need to try and incorporate some of the the results from this study talk about of course climate change is changing our forests and distribution and diversity how much of the change is attributed now with this showing some dramatic shifts in the forest floor leaf letter reductions leaf litter reductions the worms are mobilizing carbon completely this can survive in those areas we'll you mentioned these earthworms mobilized carbon how did they do that well their bulk feeders as we call them they sort of opened there assimilation of this leaf litter and material on the surface of the soil then you start to expose the plants their roots get more exposed to and yet they are most of our species are from Europe we have nineteen or twenty depending how you count them but only two or from North America Luoyang Earthworm richness abundance and biomass and we certainly know that worms aren't don't do well under dry Dr Sandy Smith is a professor of forestry at the University of Toronto she was diagnosed with Stage three colorectal cancer now nearly four years later after treatment and recovery she turned that diagnose here the ability of these trees to survive or thrive where earthworms will be and of course if temperatures and humidity change that will influence how big scale study to things like earthworms and things like other things that we didn't think of well I I don't think the the study specific you know on the positive side for sure if you want plants to grow quickly you mobilize carbon nutrients but if you have our forest like we do in Canada and that includes the elite showed how much earthworms are going to change the the world What it tried to do was capture what are some of the drivers that will be in so it was a bit confusing because again when you're hearing cancer you're still processing I could see my husband's face I saw the point I will be graduated from the follow up and officially cancer free tell me about the date March Twenty Ninth Twenty Sixteen is program we often talk to researchers working hard to try and beat diseases like cancer but their struggles are rarely personal not like the struggle Dr Mary into an opportunity to let her own patient experience drive research needed to benefit others? Dr Vera is an assistant professor in the Faculty of Pharmacy. Wow so you're still in remission are you would you come to a point where you can say you're cancer free The goal is to get to year five and then at that incoming scientist at that time I was so I actually was recruited as a whole of chair in medication adherence which is one is to help patients live better lives after diagnosis she still does all of that work but with a new purpose and perspective that perspective berms will impact what we see today as sort of natural vegetation but may not be in the future Dhaka's missed thanks much you're welcome I enjoyed things Asthma and arthritis to pregnancy her work is focused on understanding how disease spreads looking for patterns that connect age groups and ailments and finding ways wall how are you doing today I am doing well thank you I am at the start of my fourth year of Remission 'cause apparently nations and I remember I was giving a talk to a bunch of physicians a bunch of patient and academics and here I was talking about Astra anthropologists who told me it Wisconsin but it didn't really quite sink in and I think I was more thinking about you know getting back to work two models that can make projections because we know certain in my case my interest and tree species we know that certain species Birch Cherry their seeds when you first heard about this news it was my goodness it was it was a shock I just had a baby came from a life changing diagnosis that transformed her from researcher to patient on March Twenty Ninth Twenty Sixteen just after the birth of her second child in the all scientists at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver Bob McDonald spoke with her recently high welcomed coercion. corks thank you for having me I again treatment and I was this young healthy individual who had no idea what it's like and I was diagnosed and then I totally got it well what did you know about colorectal cancer before your diagnosis I knew nothing I just knew the word cancer and then I knew that there's four stages was actually planning on going back from maternity leave to my work because I two years before that I had just started my appointment at ub see how can we support patients to take medications as prescribed and I was in the process of getting nominated for are Kinda research chair so there was a lot of work to get back isn't going to do any googling about the condition and that I was going to put my trust on my care team so actually it was when going to appointments blimp notes so I knew pretty serious based on the information that I got but I knew nothing about colorectal cancer when you started to find out about it did you feel that you've what point did the epidemiologist in you takeover started looking into the literature around young colorectal cancer but has engaged with for the past three years Dr Vera is an epidemiologist who works on a variety of diseases ailments and medical conditions everything from Oh that sounds like it would take a lot out of you I call it the full meal deal of cancer treatment so at people traditionally older than fifty and that's why a lot of the population screening programs start screening at age fifty and that yeah pity meow mind I'm always looking at patterns of disease and that's what led me to you know finding out more that it is considered a disease of older it does not affect younger adults so what was your treatment some my treatment involved on five weeks of Chemo had lower anterior reception surgery to remove the tumor from the colon and that will also involve Ilyasova me which is a temporary bag I think the interesting thing is actually how the research inspiration came about somewhat of a funny story in that I actually fit the typical profile of a coal rectal cancer patient Oh no and actually this one of the things that I promised myself when I was diagnosed is Asian so that was going to the cancer hospital every day for five days of that five weeks and then I was taking chemo pills and then too so in other words you're always thinking of these diseases is something that happens to somebody else but now here it is happening to you it was interesting area that I study and I had just secured two major grants to start some intervention studies around medication adherence so that is you you start to count on the year that you're diagnosed from cancer with two thousand sixteen being year one so two thousand nineteen is actually year four and then I had four months of chemotherapy and then a year after all of that I had a second surgery to reverse the Ilyasova me send you know with Stage three B I was told about the level
Effects of Bilingualism on English Reading Ability
"Indicate A podcast about waiting bombing length. Thank you my mom. This is Monica. And this is Paolo. Welcome to enter. Those podcast asked about raising bilingual children. Welcome everyone to our first episode of Twenty Twenty but this year we hope to bring you more useful content and resources not only through through our episodes but also through our blog and social media. So if there's a topic that you would like us to dive into or a person you would like us to interview. Police let us know you you can email us at info spot gas at GMAIL DOT COM or send us a direct message on instagram or facebook. We'd love to hear your ideas where also launching our monthly enter those newsletter newsletter. In February. Finally we will share articles resources and activities kind of like what we already do on our instagram and facebook group but in a more organized fashion. Make sure to sign up our website which is enter those PODCASTS DOT com. Now let's go to the episode. Today's guest is Dr Keke Railway. An assistant professor of literacy education at North Carolina State University and the CO author of a study that looked at the extent to which Spanish reading skills affected reading growth in English. The study was published in July two thousand nineteen and it looked at reading ability and growth in in Spanish English bilingual children from kindergarten through fourth grade. The findings were interesting and encouraging parents like us who may wonder how or if our children's native language skills will help their English. We kicked off our talk by asking Jackie to take us through. The study's main finding the study was published in this July this year in Journal of a child development. So my colleague Dr Steven From University Christina Delaware and I investigated how Spanish speaking bilingual children's only Spanish. You're reading competence or ability is related to the development of in English reading up the Lydia from kindergarten through fourth grade and we also looked at what is the role of the English proficiency in this relation between only only Spanish. You're reading and long-term English reading growth over time for it this particular questions. We use Sub Sample of existing getting data Called Ali Childhood Jenner. Steady Koper These data were collected a fram large scale nationally representative sample of young the children who entered kindergarten and tracking this cohort of the children. Third Elementary School years The scenic clinic predicted and not only the level of English interesting ability the kindergarten but also growth rates of the English reading across the kindergarten through fourth grade. So this means the Spanish speaking being bilingual children who came to kindergarten with the strong ability to read their native language had Relatively Higher English waiting achievement score as compared to children who had volatility lower reading ability levels in Spanish when they enter kindergarten and in addition to this a conquering relation we also found the substantial Longitudinal Association. which is the children wet? Initially initially initially higher a Spanish reading ability made faster growth every of English your reading than their counterparts over time. The study's results supported the notion that second language it's reading ability depends on first language literacy confidence. Jackie explained that bilingual children drop on their previous literacy experience and resources says when learning a new language and literacy skills that children develop the the understanding of how to manipulate any individual sounds in spoken words and I also developed this deviates structure language features so once children gain this type Meta linguistic awareness any insights incites in their first language. They can utilize. This Jenner mapping preschool in learning a new language and this crow Salinas transfer or is not just a one time thing that happens at a specific time point but we found that he had a longer impact for for five years then. We'd normally found from previous praises studies the study also looked at the role that oral proficiency in English played in reading ability. The results weren't what one may expect researchers. I found that children with initially strong Spanish. Reading ability who were fully proficient in English achieved a higher English reading score than children with limited English English proficiency in kindergarten yet children who had a higher Spanish reading ability and we're less proficient in speaking English quickly caught up with their counterparts counterparts in a year and a half so the Moussa fascinating finding was that even if a bilingual children had limited English purposes but had developed The strong reading confidence in his Spanish by the time they entered kindergarten. They made a substantial growth in an English. Swing throughout the four or five years even more than those children who are more proficient speaking English but last proficient in reading speak Spanish so this compelling resolves Italian us that the bilingual children's a native language rating really batters in a second language reading development Even more than their a second language or the purpose of C. Bilingual children at least Spanish English bilingual children apply some of the knowledge. They develop in their native language like cognitive relationships or mapping sounds to learning to read a new language. Jackie told us that this often leaves teachers who assist bilingual children scratching in their hands. So many teachers have been the interact That proficient develop these scratch their heads Would they see a Spanish. Speaking Bilingual Students Against Horror fully proficient speaking English but still struggle with The reading in English suit this children might have not yet developed the fundamental the mental that first language linguistic and literacy knowledge they can grow up learning to new There read a new language so we can't ignore The bilingual children's a native language and their literacy skills. The teachers and parents should understand. The importance is that the young children's the first language literacy development to to support them To develop their leg was illiteracy and become by literary what Jackie. Jackie described as something that we've seen at home with our daughters. My daughter goes to an all English. School and Paula's goes to a dual language school but in both cases they seem to have easily picked up reading skills in English. Of course our experiences are anecdotal. But it made these findings very interesting. It also made us curious news about the mechanics of learning to read so we asked Jackie to break down for us here. She is again so in the learn to read a process of regardless of the language in any any different writing systems. The children learn how to decode graphic input like words in characterization to spokane worse to get the meaning out of the words and characters this knowledge of how the graphic units connected with a spokesman spoken. Units is very fundamental McKenna's. I'm in reading acquisition but you know of course. There is more to reading than knowledgeable letter solid relationship. The children journeyed to gain some sort of the reading fluency and ultimate Tissot from lots of practice and experience at home and school and then also also the develops the deep background knowledge and Cavalry Knowledge. So that they understand a word that sat at the sentences state rate but for bilingual children this complexity of riveting is significantly increased especially in second language The reading because this missile breathing process involves more than one language most bilingual children develop basic interpersonal communication skills through every day and social face to face interaction in two to three years but language and literacy skills particularly what is known as cognitive academic language proficiency may take at least five to eight years to develop a second language so this comment about cutting the presidency is sort of a school related literacy ladies and as very abstract and cognitively demanding language presidency and and some researchers show that may take the children to bear little knowledge college or very little support in native language it might take a even more than five years might take Elissa seven years to develop this cognitive academy language proficiency in Second Language so we think about bilingual children's to second language or English literacy development the their their first language about Grou- Should be taken into account to the better understand their challenges or or advantages and how to support support them to become independent reader listeners. Of this show that we encourage reading to your children every chance we get. We talked to Jackie about the positive effects. Is that shared reading with a parent or caretaker in the native language can have on literacy shared. Reading Helps Children Mobile Cabbie Larry and as they grow older and come come across conceptually complex words that are central to their reading comprehension. A cavalry knowledge becomes really important for Spanish. Speaking students learning in English vocabulary the fact that both languages share cognate S- Aka words with common origins and have similar orthographic features helps tremendously but but developing the ability to make connections between the languages takes work at home but the previous study shows that The Bilingual Hispanic children typically typically achieved a lower scores and academic cavalier assessment compared to more the lingual children so one of the reasons that researchers have found was there Mussa Bilingual Hispanic children have a limited range of the worst in Spanish that are specifically related to you know daily activities or household household activities like eating cooking or divine something at the grocery stores so yes for with Spanish. Speaking bilingual children. Parents Karen is very important to read a story books and also share a reading that children in their native language And have more opportunity. SINEAD expose a hypothetical Keppler books but also is really important to know that a crossing was transferred that I've been mentioning That doesn't happen. Automatically when parents or teachers reiterated children. They should have helped the children develop them. Absorb ability to recognize is colonising taxed so rather than simply reading aloud. They should explicitly grow their tation to the cognitive patterns or characterizing think patterns and and making use of the carbonates dream share reading together so this practice really helped bilingual students developed some strategic skills They can apply to learning English. It will capillary and also development illogical and met a linguistic awareness for independent Learning both languages. We've talked before about ways to start conversations with kids so we can engage them in a more sophisticated conversation station in the target language and also about the importance of informational books to expose them to concepts like science and math. So Jackie's advice to talk more for two children about daily activities and what we read and helping them see patterns between their two languages resonated with us. She had other valuable advice for parents. Parents of bilingual children that she admits may take a little bit of work. But by carving out some time at the dinner table or in the car after school pickup we can help our children. Children develop a Caballero Cross language. Transfer Abilities IT development at the mad linguistic awareness. That's a really good benefits. Officially bilingual children so so the Mana linguistic away says is some sort of the validity. Get the language as a thing to children. Think about the language as a the system Kim or a process so if you if you help the students develop the Meta linguistic were in as that that really happened. The a cross linguistic transfer early happen positively so when parents do shared reading or or just a you just go pop into the restaurant and read a sign or may new at the restaurant. They can make a Blissett Kind of salient aspects concept for example. You know you you guys can discuss the The logic behind on this thing worse that happened multiple meetings and then also make kind of embarrassed out of it and they have a chat about it and then also graphs some how come powers or multi celebi words convey meaning and then can analyze them the morphological with children. So the parents can do this by thinking allow or molly some sort of the problem serving strategies and then also pointed out how any detail their language works so the daily basis the conversation. Maybe you can kind kind of added this portion in the conversation then this can promote children's consciousness about all aspects of the language in reading spelling L. in or writing so I think parents need to ask Judas explain their reasoning. Ask a question and a why you think that. And it's not the bad ideas but always increase of think about the the reasoning. Why they think that way and how in what is a different way to think about so oh and then also give them feedback so this type of practice makes practice takes a time but every day before a few minutes I think you make Meghan Hughes Difference? Thank you to Dr Jackie Rallying for joining us. We hope you enjoy this conversation. Let's keep it going on social social media. You can find us on Instagram facebook and twitter at in through those podcast and don't forget to send us your topic ideas and sign up for our newsletter through our what site at into those broadcasts dot com team knows family. The listen well hungry. My name is Stephanie Garage host of all rights. Not a podcast. All about restaurants and the people people behind some of your favorite spots to e where we talked about how they started all the ups and downs and my favorite part. The Food and drinks not not forget about the desserts so subscribed to apple podcast. spotify or rarely used to podcasts. Also follow me all social media because I have the pictures of all food and if you WANNA be on my podcast and you're a restaurant owner in the business. Email me at all right now. podcast at G._M.. Dot Com and remember. You were warned. Don Listen while Hungary.
College Football Week 7 Picks and Previews
"Behavior. Ballers today's show is brought to you in part by our good friends over at navy, Federal Credit Union navy. Federal has got a mission to put members I by making their financial goals, the priority receive a lifetime of membership benefits to help you and your family accomplish your life missions like a full suite of financial products designed to fit your needs. Twenty four, seven live support and access to over three hundred branches on or near military bases, visit navyfederal dot org for more information call one, eight, eight, four to six, three, two, eight or download the navy Federal Credit Union app message and data rates may apply navy. Federal is federally insured by end. See you. Welcome to the solid verbal. For me. I'm a man, punt forty. I've heard so many players say why wanna be happy. You want to be happy for day age of state. Untie. Welcome back to the Sullivan boys, girls money, MS, tie, Hildenbrand joining me as always over there in New York City. My man, Dan Rubenstein, sir. How are you? I'm very good tie. I'm excellent in facts, and I want to ask you a question. Yes, because sometimes things are brought to our attention and we are defined by if nothing else we are open to feedback. Okay. Yes, wrecks. We value to my listeners that is listeners thoughts and opinions, and there has been something that has been repeatedly said probably in the last seven to ten days. I don't like when we're either recapping games or reprieve Ewing games. There's a fan base and I don't think you know where I'm going with this. Okay, don't worry. There's a fan base that that feels a little bit slighted that they're having a very good year. And yet we are not talking about them as much as perhaps we should be. Okay. And today I want to plant our flag and I know they're listening at the fountain dining hall tie. I know they're listening across the perfectly manicured lawn of the Brickyard. I know their ears are perking up at mitch's tavern and dammit tie. I know in the registrar's office at the George wars, Liam administrative services complex on the campus of North Carolina State university. Oh. They're listening because as of today, tie, we are exclusively. An NC state show. I devoted all of the time I normally would have spent studying the week ahead week seven, which will I'm sure we'll have a nickname for right of course. And I spent that basking in the glory of running back Reggie Glaspie is not one, not two, but three yards per carry. Tie. And you know who loves that? Probably biochemistry professor. Nate Sorenson and his students. How about Kelvin Harmon seconds in the ACC in long scrimmage plays how about that dynamic duo along the defensive line of James Smith Williams and Lorell Murchison tie. We've been talking about them nonstop all week. Yeah, we have some people saying. Some people saying Kyle bombard is last Halloween. Could you go half hour just talking ins. They hutch back percentage tight. You wanna talk about Donald bits or the father of the plasma display. You want to talk about Trudy MacKay quantitative geneticist winner of the wolf prize agriculture in twenty-six. Realistically, now pause, how much time did you spend researching random factoid that mainly interested in state a solid, eleven minutes there it is. Can I have one more one more? Please? Yelp user, Sarah g unfamiliar with, but now knows about the clear bag rule at Carter Finley. Okay. Well, that's important rule to commit to memory. If you are going to Carter Finley stadium. I'm Ty Hildebrand. Hello, I'm joined by Dan from carter-finley walk member, y, Malla Torey halt. Superfan, solid verbal, edgy mail dot com is our Email address. He could find us at solid verbal dot com are also out on social media. Find podcast, download the podcast for free wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget. We've got a sub read it is you wanna talk with other for ballers at ready dot com. Slash are slash solid verbal. We gotta pick them pool at solitaire will dot com slash pick them which you can join for free whenever the spirit moves you, but just do so before the weekend, otherwise doesn't count for week, seven. And finally, Dan, if you are watching the games is something if a great thought, if a witty quip comes into mind and you feel the need to get it off your chest, if Twitter isn't good enough for you, we are always listening. We are always eager to play your reverse allowed. If you car voicemail line at four, eight verbal one that is four zero eight, eight, three, seven, two, two, five one or boy Taylor early on Sunday mornings and do his best to cut those up mixed together into a just mishmash of wondrous college. Football oddities will send motion stew. That's right. We'll play those on our Sunday recap show. So after all of that in regard to NC state NC state actor doesn't play this week. They play at Clemson next week. I think three thirty game with Shirley will be discussing because NC states five and they're a top twenty teen Clinton obviously pretty good in their own rights. So that's about a week in the makings. Dan, not to bear out lead too much here, but we've got a big slate of week, seven action. And you know, I I also don't. I don't want to take a hard left turn with this show, but we did something in the build up to this show. That we don't normally do, and I'm hoping that it doesn't submarine the whole the whole operation here. Prepare. We did plan a little bit and I'm uneasy with this. Here's what we did. We talked about it last week how it was the beginning of October. And now with a being the beginning of October, it's officially time to start. Naming are Saturdays. So we had secretly sassy Saturday a week ago. And I don't know if it was so secret or if is more sassy, but it was a little bit of both for sure. Oh, for sure. Yes, it was. It was definitely secretive. There was definite SAS to everything and with what this week is shaping up to be particularly ferocious, I would say yes, right at the heart of Saturday's action. I think we're ready for it to announce something so he, here's what we went through. There are websites out there positive, positive adjectives. Excuse me. That start with s like you can get them all everyone in the English language. We're looking like sumptuous supple supreme, hey, hey, hey, I got. I got to save some of those for the last part of the show. Oh, sorry. We decided that we're going to go with. I'm excited about this. They don't have the drum because my soundboard crashed. But okay, sabertooth Saturday feels about right to me. Do you have a sound? I do have a sound I've to sounds actually. So do you prefer option a.. More of a conventional Penn State roared that you'd hear it Nittany. Lion roar if you're in beaver stadium play that, yes. We could go with option a. are you an option Heyer or an option b. or. For. That almost sounds computer generated. Feels classic. That option b. is something called a smile. Don roar smile, don's, Zara, sabertooth tiger like at least a a relative. Yeah. Okay. I did not know that, but I saw I I saw it. I thought mega Don, which is a giant, shark a prehistoric, shark, but smile it on. Apparently you're saying is a a member of the sabertooth tiger family attacking a lot of large urban wars tie. So when you're picking today, keep in mind if if you really want to be on the side of a larger before looking at you Colorado, it's not looking. Great. All right. Well, let us know if your option air option b. but nonetheless sabertooth Saturday is bearing down on us and there's so much action to discuss here. I think we should just dive right in. Let's do it. How many of the week. So on a more serious note, if I could place at time of recording, there is a monster storm bearing down on the Florida panhandle and parts of the southeast. We have a lot of listeners down there. Certainly a lot of college football fans in Gulf Coast region. But if you are among those that is trying to ride out or flee hurricane, Michael, we wish you well, hopefully if if you do get a chance to listen to this show, it can bring you some some comfort. It's obviously very tenuous and scary. Anytime we gotta deal with the storm of this magnitude, especially when like this, just kind of blew up out of nowhere. So just know that our thoughts and well wishes are are with you. If you are down in that part of the country and hopefully can take the verbal with you if you are out and about running around or just trying to hunker down and keep safe, wish stay safe, stay dry Borodin for you. Okay. If I could awkwardly transition then to another point that we do we, we need to talk about this. This is a sound heavy. Early portion of the verb always is much more so than usual. I said it last week. I hope people took the up on the offer and got their date night out of the way in week. Six. Okay. Because dog were in week. Seven. I don't know if you realize that, but we're like halfway through this thing. Our where it sabertooth Saturday. I hope you are ready to be plopped in front of your TV from about. Two o'clock on on the east coast. If you're on the west coast, I can't even I, I can't even talk to. You can't do the math. I can't get up early, be home by eleven, but if you're on the east coast, if you can get back in front of your television set around two PM. I think that's your best bet because as you're gonna find here, as we go through all the action, it starts up and it really doesn't stop in. It's the full day through. It's cooked all throughout here on sabertooth Saturday. The roar is prolonged and all throughout the afternoon. Yeah. And if you are somewhere where the weather isn't great, like we just mentioned, doesn't necessarily have to be in the path of hurricane, Michael, but you know, it's getting rainy. It's getting to be a little more fall weather. We've got what a pretty good Thursday night a pretty good fried, especially if you're out west, but there's what Texas Tech TCU. I'm not saying there's huge stakes with this. Let's high level football. Friday night, you tire is owner late. So if you throw in a pot of chili on Tai. In front of the TV and be entertained. Well, let's start at three thirty. We've got a bunch of games that we're going to get through. I've organized these in. So you're saying no window this week. Well, there's a little bit of a window, but it's early try to be back before two PM on the east coast. Yeah, catch the end of, you know, maybe Minnesota, Ohio State, surprising, close or Florida. Vandy Nebraska, northwestern husker's looking for their first win. Aloma stay. Can state feels like it's going to be pretty close. So there are options that if you're backed by two. Yeah, you can catch the end of some surprisingly close affair. It is a back loaded slate of week, seven games though. And I think that's kind of where I'm going with this. Let's start at three thirty. Like I said, I've organized these into headliners and other games of interest with a small point spread that one of the big point spread so get allow ground to cover here. Let's start at three thirty on CBS. We've got the Georgia BULLDOGS on the road at LSU. The line at time of recordings about seven, seven and a half. Okay. Tiger stadium, a tough place to play in Davao a tough place to play. Yeah. And LSU in particular, I think it's been a really interesting case to follow the season as compared to some other years. I'm just fascinated trying to figure out LSU. They look great against Miami. Everyone was high on LSU. They had that nail biter on the road over Auburn, which I think in retrospect wasn't as high level will win as we expected at the time, but still environment on the road, tough place to play as well. But then they lose last week to a resurgent Florida team close game. But I feel like I started to see some cracks in the foundation specifically as it relates to LSU's offense. And now we've got this game. It is at mome, but it's clearly their biggest test yet. I'm I'm, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this genuinely where where do you come down on LSU at this point in the season, Dan about midway through. So we know a lot more about LSU right now just because we've seen them on bigger stages. We've seen them against better opponents. What we perceive to be better opponents. As we go into smile it on Saturday, Tom. I'm going smile on Saturday. I don't even care. Let's let's roll with the genus. We could do that if that is the genus. We don't know as much about Georgia. So the thing that I guess has been most telling about Georgia is we saw how they reacted to multiple mistakes against Mizzou, which was eventually winning by double digits. But it wasn't the prettiest win. I don't know if they scored a touchdown in the first half on offense, but otherwise, everything else has sort of been conserved conserved been confirmed by college football at large vanities, not great. Tennessee's not greats Mizzou's feisty and lost a close one to South Carolina, but both those teams and they want win at South Carolina, which is definitely nice. But we've watched South Carolina's defense struggle pretty consistently since. So there's a big question Mark about Georgia as the defense has. Certainly, I'd say, take a taken a step back without that just other worldly linebacking core. And then at front seven from last year, the pretty good against the past. They've struggled at times against the run so they can be run on. I'm not. Not in the I I'm worried about LSU in a let down after that, that Florida loss, but I'm not going to waver from my if we believe LSU indeed has a at least a very good defense in his playing at home in a difficult place as a comfortable underdog. I'm going to take those points. I believe Georgia wins this game close. Okay. But I, I am magic. Georgia is going to get to a pretty incredible place by the end of the season. But as of right now, I don't think they're quite where they were last year. And so I think this is going to be a close one for the dogs. They pull it out by three. I'm going to say something like twenty four twenty one twenty three twenty, but they do not cover. I am going to take those points. I do think you're right to this degree l. LSU can give Georgia a game at least for a while because of that defense. And if you get a really good defense that goes a long way and look, they've been in some big games already. This season. To your point, perhaps we do know a little bit more about LSU than we do Georgia. I think a high powered offense could conceivably be Georgia do right unless you isn't that team, not not at the moment. They're not that team. So realistically, how many points are we talking about LSU scoring on Georgia in this game. I can't see more than seventeen tops. Yeah. I mean, they can generate points on both sides of the ball. I would imagine for this LSU team with what they can hold Georgia to, if the defense is operating on all cylinders. And we've, we've seen the effect of a couple of key injuries from LSU where they've, they were sort of letdown against Florida, but still with this defense and what they're capable of. LSU would need to score at least twenty seven to be Georgia when defensive performance. One hundred percents that that to me is tricky. I think that's impossible for LSU whether at offensively. So I'm gonna go Georgia Georgia lot in this game if you'll know what they've done in their first four conference games. Granted against competition that isn't nearly to the level they're gonna see in their next for conference games this week included. But Georgia's doing this thing, it's not a crock potting it. It's like, got a little bit more effort to it. I think it's a SUV eating is what we've got going on here with Georgia where the crock pot, you crank up the die. You throw it in five more precise into society, hampered. She got a vacuum seal the bag. You still got to prepare it to the appropriate done. This is a little bit more effort there, but that's what Georgia is doing. Two teams here. I think Jake Frahm is played enough big games to not get rattled here. He's completing like seventy percent of his passes, which is nuts. I like George a lot in this game. I think they pull away in the second half, let's go twenty eight, fourteen big win for them wrote here yet to beat Georgia. You. Really have to to stretch them deep and I don't believe that LSE's not that Joe Berle in this offense team. They're just not okay. Three thirty on ABC Washington on the road at Oregon. The line here is three points in favor of Washington. It can you indulge me for a second here? Sure. I'd like to talk about the time that solid wife. Kate bought me a massage for my birthday. Oh, okay. Have you ever had to it Swedish tie? What do we talk in deep dish? I don't know. Just a rank one, I think have you ever had a massage before, of course come on your thoughts on the massage process. I wouldn't even the process. What are your thoughts on just the experience? Let's say they're great. They're wonderful. They're relaxing. They sort of open you up. They they treat your muscles the way they should be treated. They get your mind right in a number of ways, it's good to reboot. See everyone told me it was going to be like. That is going to as you get an out of body thing and like it was fine. Were you looking for a little extra time on nothing. Okay. The masseuse, she worked out some nuts and all that. Yeah. Told me my neck was a mess which I already nukes. I sit at a day all day, but like I couldn't get past the weird music that she had on. He overthinking, it's I, I just I didn't feel like my life was all that different walking out of their little loose, Rick s but that's kind of how I feel about Washington right now. Maybe me and you're going to get a couples massage the next time you're New York. That could be very weird then. Okay, perfect. What if we could bring the podcasting equipment in there with us? Could we do a post game? We did a podcast episode in a hot tub. That's true. Okay. At the start of the year, everybody was super confident about Washington in about them. I can only speak for myself as a playoff contender. I was convinced that they were a playoff contender and that they had certainly a lot more killer instinct on a veteran team than we've seen so far. I telling myself all year that there is an extra gear that we haven't seen. That gear may not exist in. I've come to this point in week seven where it may not exist and I can't help, but feel underwhelmed by Washington the way I did the massage. And for that reason, this line was speaking to me to the extent where I'm thinking about taking Oregon outright. So as Washington in this situation, the masseuses delicate hands. Somebody tell me why you like Oregon, and I'll tell you why you're either correct or incorrect. I like Oregon because they should've beaten Stanford. And granted Stanton might not be as high level and opponent like we thought at one point this season. I'm ready to to address that and assert that very point. But yes, I'm certain you are, but I feel like if Oregon and Washington get into any kind of quasi shootout with Oregon at home, that's a good bet to make. Also, Jake Browning in big games is sorta like. Right? Yeah. The also if you're giving me a chance to take Oregon at home hostile environment, I love Justin. Herbert. I know this offense can score right Washington has been letting me down all season. I'm going to take the home team. Yeah, it's not a bad call. They're also coming off of a narrow road win against a an especially bad. Although perhaps into this is your word a plucky are in pluck your UCLA team. I think DT are during Thompson Robinson week over week is making more and more throws. I thought the offensive line did a surprisingly good job opening things up for Josh Kelley against Washington's defensive front. I, you know, without Vida without, you know, they've had a couple of really good pass rushers these past year. I don't think they're fully there. They don't get to the quarterback nearly as much and not getting to. Justin. Herbert is not the best way of approaching Oregon's offense. My concern as an Oregon fan is Washington's real good, and they're particularly good in the secondary, and that's a bad match up against northern receiving core. That's kind of thin there without their starting tight end who's out for the year receiver wise, they have one big go-to guy in Dylan Mitchell. But beyond that, it's pretty average as far as Oregon goes. But or inside a couple of weeks to do nothing but say, how do we get our receivers open against Washington because they had that by week last week. So there's a buy week going up against a team playing its second consecutive road game that happens to be in a particularly dicey aggressive environment, like autzen will be for this. Washington team would have me worried about giving road points to Washington. Okay. So it's a bad match up for Oregon offensively. Although I think they should be able to push around Washington up front a little bit in the run game. The key for Oregon will be. If they can start quickly and lean on the run and the play action stuff, they have a very good chance of winning this game. I, you know, watching watching Oregon get seventy dropped on them a couple years ago. Still. It's a fresh wound tie. Okay. There's a, there's a, there's a clear raspberry on my psyche. Fair, fair enough. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take the points just that that second straight road the the quarterback advantage that I feel like Oregon now has. I don't love that. They don't have a guy in the backfield that running back like they've had for the past ten twelve years, but I think Oregon figures it out. I think that combination of the double road and the by week in the tough environments with a close spread. I'm going to take that those points right now. I'm taking Oregon outright thirty eight thirty one, which of course means is going to be seventeen fourteen or something hurts that you chose the Oregon Stanford skorts I. Oh, did I do that in lieu dit? It's okay. It's okay. The only other point that I'd. Very quickly. You know, Oregon's not great defensively, but they are better against them in the past. And yes, that's significant in this game. Because like I said earlier, I think I want Jake Browning throwing as much as possible in autzen stadium. So if Oregon just goes ahead and puts eight guys in the box and let's throw sixty times that feels like a pretty damn good formula. There's no Dante Pettus there isn't. There's no John Ross. That's right. And that that makes me feel very happy. All right. Three thirty, big ten network Michigan state at Penn State. The knits are we? Actually, we have the San. Play. Cats. The big cats are a thirteen and a half point favorite here at home, Michigan state one. This one twenty seven twenty four last year in east Lansing. Now, the rivalry comes back to state college. We haven't talked too much about Michigan state this year and no, I think it's because they've been a huge disappointment. Is that accurate? Yeah, losing at Arizona state has not aged particularly well. And it's, I mean, Arizona say it's fine, but they are. They shouldn't be ahead of where Michigan state has been program to be Michigan state Dan, yeah, brought back nineteen starters from year ago. And here they are at three and two. Dave perhaps got three or four more losses on the schedule. Brian la- work. He makes too many mistakes. The offense can't run. They don't have any big plays. The defense is fine, especially gets the run, but that's but not dominant, not dominant. That's kind of the state of play here from Michigan state in twenty eighteen. Now. Yeah, you're not wrong and losing to north western will probably be okay. By the end of the season, northwestern that classic growth team, the current spread is what it's almost what a couple times got thirteen and a half year on the sheet. That's that's too many points to me think. I think I think there is a not an extreme hangover, but this is a Penn State team that for better or worse has played to their competition for chunks of games. They played down to pit and bad weather for a half. They played down to Illinois, ran all over them for a half before the Nittany lions turned it on. And I think Penn State is susceptible to playing on another teams terms and Michigan state's goal will be ugly it up like they did last year in that weird environment. I think Penn State wins the game. I don't think it's by double digits. I think Penn State is the clear better team that doesn't play like it for chunk of this game. I don't know what the weather's going to be like if there's a weird rainy situation, but. I'll take Penn State in like a thirty to twenty three thirty one twenty four thirty one twenty six. You know something where I don't know if it's a backdoor cover for Michigan state. I guess it might be a little lower scoring, twenty five eighteen, but I think Penn State plays down in escapes. Interesting. I could totally see it going that way. I just I think trace McSorley is gonna throw in Michigan state. I believe I saw Caja hammer is gonna play in this game. He of course, leads Penn State in both receiving yards and touchdown catches which is significant. The offense for Penn State is going to score points. The question I think is whether Michigan state's can score two or to what degree can they score? I just think you watch Penn State try to tackle against Ohio State. I know I know Michigan state is gonna be revved up to some degree against Michigan state because they've tried to out fashioned. This game is a rivalry whether or not it is remains to. Be seen. I I'm gonna go thirty one seventeen. I think it's right around the number. I think Penn State wins. I definitely think there's a chunk of this game that feels the way you've described Penn State's playing down, but ultimately maybe a front door cover here or Penn State runs away with it late and covers the spread. Yeah, and I feel by the way for Felton Davis and Cody whites still pretty good receivers. Sorley stuck in mud at in that Michigan state offense, three thirty as well on ESPN two. You're gonna need like ATV's here three thirty to watch this game eight wide UCF on the road at Memphis. They are a four and a half point favorite. I am all in all on one team here in. I'm ready. How do you feel about this one. UCF and lock it up for me. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Dental k. explain. So the lead actually worries me a little bit. I thought it would have been a little bit higher. I don't love Memphis's defense, UCF, see fences improved, albeit against not all that much in the way of offense. So I, I don't put a ton of stock in that because by the end of last year, their defense was in a a pretty tough place based on just how successful the offense was and how quickly they got off the field because they were scoring all the time and the fact that they had that monster back and forth against both USF and Memphis later on in the season. But I like we're UCF's mind is that were there mixing the explosive plays with the more efficient, looks more efficient plays in drives. So ultimately, I think Memphis is a step behind from where they were last year, like Demonte coke c. n. pop Williams. There's still that talent in the receiving core without Anthony Miller. But I think they're a step behind. We've seen that at spots. This year, and I like the trajectory of UCF and I think eventually they win this game by I dunno thirteen to seventeen points they were. They comfortably won this game during the regular season last year, yes. And then it was that close back and forth in the the conference championship game. So I'm going with the nights. I am going with a not super comfortable, but eventually double digit win here. Interesting. Well, I like Memphis a lot, and I like that Brady white is having a wonderful season. The ethic good at home. How ever however. Let's go double barrel. Donald Nicol here, Dan, here's what's underrated. Everyone talks about UCF's offense. God they're gonna lose now, aren't they? Probably what's underrated is defense. They've been so officiant. Against better competition the Memphis and Memphis defense, they're forcing turnovers, they're handing it over to the offense, which is first in the nation at finishing drives with points that is significant in a game like this, which could devolve into a shootout. Let's be honest. I think UCF. UCF like you said is is a step above for Memphis. It's going to be like when you bump the difficulty up two all Madden. That's that kind of game for Memphis here. UCF wins this one forty one thirty on the road. Nice win. By the way. The point spread. If I didn't mention it's four and a half double barrel UCF lock of the week here for me. I'm I don't even know who's played the harder schedule. Honestly, UCF is Yukon South Carolina state FAU is probably the best team that UCF is played. But pit is not great and then Memphis, what they lose to two lane, they beat they lose to navy as well, right? They've lost a couple of times, but those are very specific kinds of offenses that they lost to. I like murdered Yukon. I seven PM f s one. We've got West Virginia on the road at Iowa State. If I am reading my notes correctly here this line opened at West Virginia minus four and a half. It promptly jumped to West Virginia minus six, which is fitting because West Virginia is now up to number six in both the APN coaches pulled. And so a little bit of symmetry, six, six, six. If you will, for the mountaineers who are now five and oh, they've been very good to season. The defense has been top five, which is a bit unexpected depending on who you ask them pointing at you. Dan, not visual medium. I understand the offense has been predictably potent. I will also add that I can't find any statistical reason to pick Iowa State in this game because as I see it here, West Virginia is better across nearly every statistic and just across the board did West Virginia little. A bit of trivia booted booted it did West Virginia score more second half ofensive points against Texas Tech on the road or last year against Iowa State on the road. Now they did not. So the answer is a trick question. That answer is the answer zero for both. They did not score any points against Iowa State in the second half last year in Morgantown, and they did not score any offensive points in the second half against Texas Tech this year and all in. On Brock birdie. Interesting new, I always state, yeah. Who freshman? Third string quarterback relieving Zab Nolan to a lot of success at Oklahoma state. There isn't a lot of statistical reason to take state here. The game is in Ames is at night tonight. Aims at night, huge opponent with a quarterback gunning for the Heisman Trophy probably fell off of that with three red zone turnovers last week against Kansas. But nonetheless big primetime spot where there aren't a lot of big primetime games, other than Michigan, Wisconsin at night. So. I'm going to go clones here. David Montgomery is questionable, but he didn't play last week against Oklahoma states. I think Akeem Butler has a very nice day for the clones. I think Brock Purdy I don't know what sort of nickname we need to come up with. At least I need to come up with my so completely in on on the Brock star. No brought us that stopped bad for I tell Kay. Yeah, we're gonna work this to work shirty the party like Brock star. It's not bad then. Okay. It's very Birmanie. Yeah. And that's what worries me. Yeah. I'm gonna go Iowa State Iowa State here outright. I think they win this game back and forth. The spread is once again went about six point six points. Yeah. Yeah. I think they take this thirty one twenty eight. Whoa. Okay. I was state's my home dog of the week. Dog of the week. I think I'm with you on the outright. Yeah, I can't find any statistical reason, but here's what I know I start is in every game every game. And now with pretty like a Brock star. I'm so shaped as starting quarterback. I'm sure we know what we're going to see. So for me, this is tough because I was really high in West Virginia, you weren't. I kind of want to rub it in, but I will stay just scares the hell out of me. They're like a poor man's am in that every game is sort of a journey. So let's go, Iowa State is the home dog let's go. Let's get nuts. Let's go Iowa State outright. I think a little bit more. Offense than your prediction. I'll say thirty three thirty one, but a really good night game here names how a Charney life is a highway near deriding. It all the way to Ames. That's right baby. Okay. Seven thirty ABC Wisconsin at Michigan. Wolverines seven and a half point favorite. This is this is a fun match up here. I want to bring up an important factoid that Maili interest high Hildenbrand. Let's do it, but indulge me again, if you don't mind. I mean, we're NC state show, so you're really going off the beaten path. I apologize. Our friend Bill Connolly he does this thing with his SNP numbers where he comes up with an adjusted scoring margin. I've always found it to be one of the better measures for how a team is playing so like we talked about, so what is that right? We talked about how good Michigan looked last week when they beat Maryland by three touchdowns bills numbers. Say that in that game, Michigan played well enough to win by thirty five. Okay. So it's it's by his measure, a truer indication of how well a team played, what the margin should have been. If everything amounted implants, that's true across the board for Michigan every game with the exception of that Nebraska game, which they ran away and hid from Nebraska. Every game, Michigan is played better than the final score would indicate. And for me. That's significant is something to keep in mind because we've had fun with Michigan and all that, but this is a team that's loaded. This is a team that seemingly getting better each week. There's a lot to be fearful of if you have to play Michigan in the second half of the season because they've taken some lumps here. But the defense is still rock solid and it feels to me like the offense is getting better here. I'm going to take the phrase. The defense is still rock solid. First of all, I think you're under underselling Michigan. Okay. I'm not trying. No way we're Sean. Gary's been beat up and there have been a couple of lapses, but ultimately this team ninety six point, four percent of the time has been nothing short of excellent on my God. Yeah, they're very good. And the opposite is sort of I wouldn't say the opposite, but saying the defense is still rock-solid does not necessarily apply to Wisconsin? No, it doesn't. The BYU loss looks way worse with age, and I can understand just looking pass BYU in assuming going through the motions. We'll be good enough to beat the kooks. I get that, but still lost to BYU and the secondary has been a quiet strength of this team. They, you know, it is allowed, Wisconsin vary up, looks up front and getting after the quarterback. Wisconsin's not getting after the quarterback, Wisconsin has struggling against decent passers. We saw last week against Adrian Martinez. It was not the most season guy. No, he eventually, I believe we'll be pretty good for Scott frost, but he and JD Spielman did a a an unexpectedly, pretty amazing job against this Wisconsin defense. And while the Wisconsin offense looks to be hitting on all cylinders, I'm a little bit worried that this is just a pretty incredible matchup Michigan. And so I think Michigan wins this game by thirteen fifteen points at home, which is certainly been much friendlier for Jim Harbaugh since he's gotten to an Arbor and there's just something a little. Bit crooked a little bit screwy about this year's Wisconsin team and it's it's injuries. It's the attrition from last year. The offer a myriad of reasons. They're just not the same at receiver. Jonathan Taylor, tailback is incredible stunned, we'll weather everything. He's a star. He's absolutely a star, but I look, I've even learned to appreciate Alex Hornibrook in our way that I had in previous campaigns. He's not long stretches of playing really well. Absolutely. But I think I'm with you. What worries me about Wisconsin is that defense now and they're just they're not getting the same kind of pass, rush this year and intern that's affecting their efficiency as a pass defense. So when you got a guy like shape, Patterson, who I think is getting better is still very dangerous, a good thrower. You've got the defense as bedrock that's gonna keep you had pretty much every game. I don't know if they're that much better than Wisconsin, but I think eight to ten points better as where I come down. On something like twenty seven seventeen Michigan wins game. Yeah, we've seen and we just spoke a lot about Wisconsin Michigan's defense, well, Michigan's offense. And if it's that same sort of trajectory, that's been one of my favorite words this season that we saw Jake route ACC a couple years ago, three years ago where he looked shaky early on but get sort of the rhythms of the the Michigan offense. I think we could be seeing more and more of that from shape Patterson. He's obviously got an incredibly comfortable was act entry Donovan, people's Jones, spend more of a situational playmaker than consistently making plays downfield, but he finds the end zone plenty and the offensive line while still not to me. Great. They've been good enough. I think they've definitely improved from where they were last year, new offensive line coach, Ron Higdon. I think Chris Evans his healthy this week, so little deeper running back. I think they should be able to do enough to win on early downs and get Michigan consistently to third in ones, twos and threes. All right. Well, there. We go. We both agree. I think we agreed on every game with the exception of one, the Penn State game cracks. Okay. We've got a bunch more to get through or running short on time, but we do need to tell you about our sponsors for this evening. The first is recruiter. We've been talking about ZipRecruiter all year. They've been with us on this journey through seven weeks of the college football season now. And if I've said at once said thousand times, there are job sites out there. They're gonna send you tons of wrong resumes that you got to sort through more and they make you wait for the right candidates to apply to your job. We talk a lot of this show about officiency that is not efficient city. No, the reactive approach is not officiency. What is officially is going the smart route with ZipRecruiter dot com slash solid, which you can try ZipRecruiter for free. It goes up recruiter, dot com, slash solid. They don't depend on people finding you. It goes out in it finds them, they scan thousands of resumes. 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Your jacket lining, your pockets buttons, even get your own monogram on that. Thing. If you're into such a sophisticated menswear ooh, also they're expanding now into casual clothing with made to measure Chino's Dan, we've talked about how we're both Chino's guys. I don't know if I own Chino's per se, but you label really you labeled me as a guy a week go. So I'm just going to roll with it here. That's what I what we're going to have to talk off line about this, but what will we will talk off line? We've got more games. Discuss here. I wanted to know your definition of chino. That's what I want to after the show quickly. These will become your go-to pant. They pair easily with anything from a suit jacket to a sweater. They're perfect for any time of year. And any occasion from the board room to brunch to maybe you're just sitting around the sit around the couch sabertooth, Saturday, smile dot mile. Don. It's all the eligible for an introductory price of just seventy nine bucks. Our listeners can get any premium Indochino suit for just three fifty nine to indochino.com when it asks you enter the code solid at checkout. Fifty percent off the regular price for made to measure premium suit shipping is free Indochino dot com. Use the promo code solid any premium suit for just three fifty nine and free shipping and incredible deal. One more time for a premium made to measure suit. Okay. Where do you want to go? Next, Dan, let's go to Thursday night. Thursday night. We've got a little alliterate here, Thursday night, football, Texas Tech, and TCU. The spread is seven points in favor of TCU. They're playing this one at TCU are we sure that TCU can score with Texas Tech. That is my question to you. No, especially since Sean Robinson got hurt. I think he's going to go against against the red raiders, but he hurt his shoulder and that is worrisome. When Texas Tech is probably gonna score points and they have their own injury issues. Alan Bowman looks like gives me British comedy legend, Alan Bowman. He's like he will be going against the frogs because he no longer has a like half collapsed lung. Okay. Which would keep either of us out indefinitely would not be able to tell the end of time. I'll be able to podcast with such. I we, as it has. I can't afford collapsing in that region. No. I think if TCU I mean, this is not been a funnier for TCU they had they get up for Ohio State. They have that letdown against Texas. They sneak by Iowa State. I like the fact that TCU a buy week going into a tough game that'll help to define the second half of their season. So yes, I think they do win this game by eight or nine points. Texas Tech is still very much a mystery right now they are. They are. They storm back against West. Virginia wasn't quite enough, but I think TCU at home has enough answers on that defense to a to get some stops. I'm not sure that the correct team is favored here, so I'm gonna go out. Yeah, I'm gonna go points, Texas Tech, plus the points. I don't know if they win outright much just feels like too many points here and I do trust in their offense scored. So one thing you can trust and Texas Tech to do the numbers like tech lot to keep this a lot closer. Yeah, they do. They do. Okay. Saturday, high noon, ESPN Florida. At Vanderbilt. The point spread here is said. I said it last week. This is a prime letdown look ahead sandwich Dutt's which I'm so I'm so hungry. I don't know if it's a full on sandwich. It might be an open faced. Letdown look, hey, sandwich because there's a by on deck here for Florida. But of course the big win at home, twenty seven and nineteen over LSU last Saturday. Now they go on the road to let down look ahead to start up. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I don't think Florida loses, but I do think vandy gives them a game. I do think vandy covers the point spread at home here. Let's say Florida wins by a twenty twenty four twenty one score. Okay. So vandy does cover. I would love to take the doors here, love Nashville, friends with a former player. I just it's all offensive lineman in my life. I. Shoutout Kenan Arkan though. Yeah, I'm going to go Florida comfortably here. Okay. I would love to take vandy I if I could sit here and say, you know what? Vans defense is not bad that that's where it is for me. I'm all in on vandy Bengazi fence. Is that bad? I'm going Florida. I'm not thinking twice. Florida will keep it simple and still succeed running all over the doors. Why don't you join me on the dark side here because you know that I'm big on these situational plays. I called it with San Diego State earlier in the year. And you just show then San Diego State has that defense though they do the defense, you're right about that. Florida wins thirty seven to seventeen also at high noon. You've got ABC. Broadcasting, Nebraska at northwestern. The point spread here started at eight and a half in favor of northwestern's come all the way down to three and a half. That's a lot of money coming in on Brassica and I like Nebraska because of Adri Martinez. I think he's exciting, north Western's all over the place. I honestly don't know what to make them. They lose to Duke. In Akron, they almost beat Michigan. They did beat Michigan state a week ago. I, this is probably a really horrible game to watch. Oh, but Nebraska's defense is the worst unit on the field. Some going to go. They are western here. Yeah, it's both good and bad because northwestern as we saw last week with what six, seven, eight yards. Rushing total. Northwestern in a in a win over Michigan state is not necessarily the team best built take advantage, although perhaps Nebraska's run defenses to cure for the common offense. Northwestern definitely takes a step forward last week situationally. I wish I could like Nebraska more than I do two straight weeks on the road. If you if you're a believer in the body blow theory, they got pushed around up front by this Wisconsin line for four straight quarters every play and going to north western. Another good defense. I think I'm going to take the cats. They are. They're getting to that place like other teams and other conferences, similarly where they're not very good, but they're good enough to take advantage and spotlight your mistakes. Okay. So I really, truly did want to take Nebraska. Excuse me because. It feels like they're gaining confidence last week, you know, putting up yard scoring points. You know not a lot, but some against Wisconsin. I just the situational play is not good for me. I think northwestern ultimately wins his game by touchdown. I'm going to say twenty eight twenty three thirty SEC network Texas a. and m. at South Carolina, South Carolina, two and a half point favorite. Of course, a nice win for both schools last week with am knocking off Kentucky, South Carolina, finding a way to get the job done. Thirty seven thirty five over Mizzou. I am going to stay consistent. Here am continues to scare the hell out of be they probably will all season long. I also think they're better across the board here, which is a good reason as good a reason as any to pick one team over another. I like an outright here. I'm not sure if I said that South Carolina was favored or an was favored. It does look like am is favored by two and a half, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna lay the points here on the road. AM wins. Yeah, I think we agree and never forgets. This is the Kenny troll game. That's right. This is the Kenny trout game from holy cow, two thousand the ins- thirteen. I don't even remember fourteen. I remember coming home from the mysterious day job and throwing myself in front of the TV to watch this game. I was all amped up for the start of the college football season. And I remember the Kenny trill game. Was like, who is this guy? He's incredible. And then it just sort of spiraled from there. But yeah, I mean, we always had that one game. Dan. I was two thousand fourteen. I am wins this comfortably do not like we're South Carolina's defense is heading both these teams in letdown spots. Tech say m the overtime, win, South Carolina with that last second win. We'll see who starts who actually gets the start at quarterback for the Gamecocks. But I think I am. I'm pushing all of my Trayvon Williams chips to the center of the table. And I, I am hoping forbid things seven PM ESPN two. This is officially the Vegas knows something game of the week. Okay. Got Miami is six point only a six point road favorite at Virginia. You haven't talked much about UVA this year, but they are actually making some good strides. Its top forty, five. I'd say team at the moment if the numbers our wrecked. Okay, that's a pretty big improvement. Right. Considering where Virginia's been decade, that's an improvement for UVA right now. They're sitting at three into the run the ball pretty well. I worry that the defense gives out against the team like Miami, so I am going to take the canes here, but I do fear that I am walking into a bit of a trap of my own making. So give me the canes would not at all. Surprise me for Gina covers this point spreader if they win the game outright. This is the remember Kurt bankers first-half last year. That's what this game is. I sure letdown spot first Miami going on the road. Virginia's not a team like northwestern or Utah that is built to just spotlight problems, but I don't know. Something's rubbing me the wrong way about this Miami team. The loss of Amman Richards really is a huge bummer. Hopefully, he gets better just physically and lives a really good life, but he has done playing for Miami, which will affect their offense. Moving forward, Virginia. There's a lot to kinda like, but not a lot to really, really like they generate some big plays. I do like their receivers, a good amount, but this is a tough, Miami secondary. I'm gonna take the points. Okay. I think Virginia does enough in this game to put a pretty big scare and to Miami, but Miami pulls it out Virginia's like the girl or guy after summer break in high school or they come back. It's like, hey, what are they up to. Let's what's going on over there. Three and a half inches taller. It's going on over there. Moving on can tap backboard ten thirty PM eastern on f s one Colorado at USC USC a touchdown favourite here. Look. I'm gonna take Colorado with the points. Yeah, they're good against the pass. They should be able to generate a pass, rush against JT Daniels and I'm just gonna laid out there. I am afraid for my life. If I bet against Colorado, those fans were so mean earlier in the year. I don't wanna put myself through that. It was free range cruelty, tie. It wasn't too bad. So. We USC is leaps and bounds more talented than anything Colorado has faced thus far. Yes, agree. Maybe it's a bit of a letdown spot in that close win, close issue in against Aaron state USC coming off a bye believe, right? Yeah, at home against Colorado. I in, it's like a, it's a late eastern time kickoff, right? It's gonna go deep into the nights. Situationally, I'm just going to take the points. I think USC pulls it out. I am concerned about USC secondary in this game. It's not just a viscous Chenault. I think Colorado's able to move the ball with a number of of different options. I like Stephen Montanez allot against this pretty beat up, say Stephen or Stevie Stevie on his when I thought I heard it was enshrined. Uh-huh. And I like what I saw with Colorado's defense holding up pretty nicely against ASU last week. I think USC pulls this out. I think it's the first loss of the season for the buffs I I'm still not crazy about this USC defense or offense for that matter. I'm almost giving it away. They're no against Arizona and just USC once again is a team that has the ability has the playmakers has the depth to beat everybody on their schedule by thirteen to seventeen points and situationally they're just not they're they are. I don't. I don't know if it's a coaching thing. I don't know if it's a focus thing, but I do enjoy that. It's at home in l. a. I think they pull this one out in a bit of a shootout forty, five, forty one. We've got six games here. I've got these in the other games. Other notable gains with big point spreads bucket. I wanna go rapid fire. Okay. Just give me real quick. Quick. Kidder's twelve PM f s one Minnesota, a twenty nine and a half point dog on the road against a high of state who you got. Ohio State. I don't like Minnesota's offense and the defense was good, and now it's not. I'm to go how state as what we agree. We well PM SEC network Tennessee at Auburn. This line opened at Auburn minus eighteen. It's come down to Auburn, minus fifteen and a half. Dan who you got, I'm gonna take the points here. Tennessee's not particularly good. Auburn, just we saw them against low level SEC a couple of weeks ago and since against Arkansas few weeks ago and I don't know Tennessee on the roads scares me. I'll be honest with taking Tennessee points scares me, but I think Auburn wins this thirty two seventeen and that's good enough to cover. I'm going to go Auburn minus anything here. Tennessee's pretty dreadful there to thirty NBC pit at Notre Dame. Notre Dame, a three touchdown favorite Dan. Pit is pretty bad. Actually. Note. Breaking news in case you're playing the home game pits. Not been good this year. Notre Dame, of course coming off that win on the road in lane stadium a week ago. I don't know if I see much let down effect here for Notre Dame, but I am contractually obligated to go anyone plus the points against my Irish. So gimme pit. I am going to happily give those points. Pit's been terrible against the run ad as Notre Dame has been peaking on the ground. Pit is now even more beat up with the loss of a a linebacker captain. I'm going to take the Irish to comfortably win this game by thirty and call it forty seven sixteen three thirty on ESPN Baylor on the road at Texas. The line here opened at Texas minus seventeen is come down some to Texas minus fourteen. Is there a letdown affect your in play for Texas? After that big Texas is back ee program. Changing kind of win a week ago in the Cotton Bowl. Do you want to take like a. CSI forensic look at Texas schedule right now. Let's do it non marquee game against Maryland. They they play close in, lose non marquee game against Tulsa. They almost lose and look, sloppy marquee game against USC. They look great marquee game against TSE TCU. They look great at Kansas state non marquee game nineteen. Fourteen marquee game against Oklahoma. They pull it out in the end. Huge plays huge moments, non marquee game against Baylor. I'm gonna take the points. Yeah, let's go points here. This is a defacto national championship game for Baylor. This wouldn't clearly means more for them than it does for Texas. So even though they were very missiles in Austin, right? It's in Austin, that's our and that will definitely play a factor. But this this game is meaningful for Baylor. There were very mistake prone a week ago against k. state, but if they can just get it a little bit more together on offense, I think they could definitely keep this one closer than that fourteen and a half point spreads. Do you know who else. That's meaningful for is that our good friend, Adam Amine who's calling this game. Let's have a listen. Adam Amine here with your solid verbal voice meal of the week could not be more excited to visit one of the best cities in the country for food Austin, Texas. This week, we have number nine, Texas hosting Baylor, three thirty eastern on ESPN this Saturday. There's a million places to go to for tacos. I'm not even going to bother diving and all the possibilities. There's a million places to go to for great barbecue. My hidden gem introduced to be my good friend. Justin wear of ESPN radio. He said, GRA zelda's I enjoyed a phenomenal brunch their Sunday. Brunch is one of the best you'll have in the entire city of Austin, Texas. I highly recommended, but more importantly. Dan tummy, I don't know about tie, but at least an for sure I need picks for Austin. Okay, so I can only give one here. I had yours as my Twitter avatar. For about eight years. I'll write me eating the breakfast taco amid shoe. Was it? Pueblo VA ho. Oh yeah. Seddon such an authentic way. Thank you the way. Bloviate ho is a an excellent breakfast taco place and general taco place. It's on east sixth, but it's right next to downtown. I'll just stay on sixth street, really. I mean, there's you should explore all of Austin, but easy tiger for coffee and pastries. You can get really good burgers and salsa. Verde fries at casino. El Camino on sick. Oh yeah, we were there. We went to casino Camino. Incredible. And yes, play VA ho is just incredible. It's super low key. And if you want one more place, I've heard incredible things haven't been there. Can't personally vouch about swear. Swear swear. Tate s. u. e. RT sounds dangerous swam. Okay, moving on. Thank you. Adam, seven PM ESPN two more games here to discuss Missouri, Alabama, Alabama, twenty eight and a half points, the favourite. Any reason to not go Bama minus anything. I cannot find one know Bama minus anything. It is. We agree. Can I ask you a question to totally derail things? Please? This has been a week that has been for whatever reason. Chock full of. Let's not crown Bama yet, right? As people are saying, things like to a tongue of Ayatollah has been incredibly got an Email from somebody asking us if Alabama was overrated, Alabama's, overrated. We've gotten tweets. I saw Bill Connolly you know, he wrote something about about to a an historically if he's cherry picking the best games of recent Heisman quarterbacks that they don't even compare to what to a has done thus far against everybody. And normally I would say with Alabama schedule, which I think is better than most are pointing to ending. AM is a pretty good team ole miss for whatever reason as a terrible defense. But they probably have the third best quarterback in the conference. I think Jordan Thomas at a better year than drew lock now. Yeah. And so I thought that was a legitimate offensive test with those receivers. And I would normally be hesitant about saying done deal Alabama's. There's nobody that can beat Alabama, and I'm not going to say that now, but we do have a track record. We do have a benefit of the doubt that Nick Sabin has earned that maybe nobody historically has earns. And so I think it's okay even without them having played against the Auburn defense or the LSU defense or potentially the George defense in the championship game to say, Alabama is excellent and to just plant that flag and say, I don't care who disagrees Alabama's excellence, and it's very strange to watch them play and say. And now I've only played Louisiana Lafayette AM and Arkansas neno Alabama's there. Can I tell you how brave it is to go out on that limb. Fake you into build a case for Alabama as the best team in the country. I don't try myself out to to really come out as an Alabama believer today, very well thought out. Thank you very well delivered in, but there is that like weird backlash at this point. Well, people are just looking for hot takes Dan. That's true. Ten just looking for takes. I'm with you Bama minus anything final game here on the slate, at least on our sheet, ten pm Friday night. Going back in time motor do better, do Arizona at Utah, Utah. A fourteen point favorite here. Dan, Utah raise some eyebrows scoring a bunch of points last week. I'm gonna go utes here to win this game, but not by fourteen, not at all by fourteen gimme Arizona plus the points. Yeah, I'm going to take the points as well. I think Arizona's below average, but there's something weird about a Friday night game Utah coming. It's a short week. So things are just a little bit off obviously for both teams. And yeah, I think there's a a letdown factor at play here, so I'm going to take those points, Utah wins this game. Are there any other games who have BS games? I don't know, man. So we mentioned the Thursday and Friday night one Saturday and has been ever app state comfortably, beat Arkansas state on. I was Tuesday night, right? Yep. The dodgers advance. Love that tie a love that. Your Anki who's starting for the Yankees slider. Nobody the Yankees. I know I had to think about that here. I now I'm a bad person. Louisville, Boston College sees a chance to get a fifth win. That's something North Texas, very quietly at five and one. They should go to six one playing against a southern miss team that I'm not a huge believer in. We talked about most of the headliners Ohio NIU is I think, could be a pretty fun game. That's that's in an hosting that game. Yeah, I think temple has a good opportunity to take a step forward, Illinois on a one game, big, ten winning streak could take down produce at home. I'm just saying, watch out dry for six Israel, tie Utah state and other quiet team. They should go to five and one. Houston could go to five and one with a feisty, East Carolina same who has yet to win a game in the American UCLA. Cal listen, if you're UCLA fan and you are if you're checking your list twice, checking your list, checking it twice. They, they might need to be Calva with game and that's in Berkeley tie. That's that's in Berkeley. Beyond that Boise, Nevada could be a little bit. Interesting. That's a late night game that could it could be a lot of points there, but otherwise, tie just a very simple request. Yeah, please any you drop that big stinky surging squirming slipping drum and fife. Here we go. Yeah, Friday night, seven pm. We've got a Holy Cross at Harvard Habat. Thirteen and a half point home favourite who you got social network is one of my probably four to five favorite movies ever me the crimson. I am going to go Harvard as well. Twelve PM on Saturday Cornell at two and two traveling to Colgate, the Gators or fun overall three and oh in conference. And just so happens if you're into such things, they're a thirteen point spread in this football game. Dan, who he got Hamilton, New York's finest, the Colgate Gators aka the Colgate raiders. They win this game by twenty. Just a lights out, defense shout out to James. What's go Gators as well. Twelve thirty Saturday Fordham at, oh, and five traveling down here to Goodman stadium to square off against the Lee high mountain Hawksley high currently at one in four. This is there. I conference game. We're in week seven again, I don't understand the patriot league scheduling. Oh, it's wonderful. We high finds himself. I believe a thirteen point favorite in this game, Dan, we got gimme the engineers and where should the visiting Rams eat breakfast and beautiful Bethlehem p. there's a blue sky. What's that pancake blue sky cafe, but I would recommend Billy's downtown diner and I went to blue sky and I liked it a lot. Yeah, it's a good place. Good place. Billy's or blue sky Billy's downtown diners. My recommendation. One buck now Bucknell at one in five, travelling to Monmouth. They are three and two mom got a heavy favorite who you got. Yeah, I'm not going. Nell is here now love Lewisburg. I'm going Monmouth there and finally agreed to buy that. We we three thirty on Saturday. We've got Georgetown away away from multi sport field there, two and five one in conference coming down here as well to eastern squaring off against the Lafayette leopards at one in four, Dan, who he got Lafayette giving two and a half points. Lot of action swing in the left's way in Vegas, Ty. Yeah, to action. I think Lafayette gets together Owen one in conference, but I think they get to five hundred with a win over the Hoyas. I know Georgetown looking up this year Lafayette down year. Everybody understands that we talked about this extensively on our patriot league preview episodes, but I am going to go. I'm gonna go the yet. He's here to keep it. Keep it moving upward. By the way, if I could very quickly of the Senate teams in the patriot league here are the records of these readies overall records Colgate five. Having a season for the ages. Of course, Georgetown two and four in second place. Bucknell one in five, high one in four Lafayette one in four, Fordham Owen, five and Holy Cross somehow unless the record of one in five, though they have won a football game here, not great for the patriot league, very top, heavy with Colgate, leading the charge, I believe. And I'm looking at up right now. The page patriot league dot org is slow to response. 'cause obviously, being inundated with traffic as the world swarms to see what's going on with week seven in the Pat league. But I believe Colgate was giving up. Okay, it's loading now. I believe they're scoring defense. Yes, they are allowing four point six points per game. Well. Hell, yeah, Gators. All right. That's all I got. They are. They are an FCS legitimate team. I'm red Holgate, beat Alabama. On the next episode of the why isn't ala Bama scheduling Colgate, purple dot com is the website. You can listen to all of our shows for free subscribe. If you haven't already if you don't know what it means to subscribe. If you're new podcast list or go to our website, celebrate with dot com. Give you all the details there for how to do it and how he can get all of our episodes delivered four free to your device of choice. Crazy three. We talk college football year round, especially now being so it is the season. Also if you're watching the games this weekend, four zero, eight. Verbal one is the phone number call in stream of consciousness. Whatever comes to mind. You're watching the games. He got something you need to get off your chest. Call us up. Leave a voice message will mix it up. We'll play it hopefully on Sunday as part of a reverse segment, one final bit of housekeeping if I could. I'm ready. I've been slacking. Off mightily as you know, there's been a lot going on this end, so I haven't been haven't been as forward leaning as I need to be as it relates to our hop -fensive record Nader's. Oh yes. I almost screwed that up hop -fensive coordinator, very difficult to say. We have co hop -fensive coordinators this week. The first is my good friend. Rob, who's a loyal for baller recommends harpoon flannel Friday. He says it say Hoppy, amber ale that screams fall perfect for the first cool autumn Saturday when you have to layer up after six months of wearing nothing, but a t shirt, this is a hell of a can. Yeah, flannel fry. It's a flannel design. Cool. There appears to be a little like a bulldog or something on there a mastiff great can or bottle. And our second hop -fensive coordinator is met who writes him with purple rain. That's our. R. e. I g. n. IPA that's hurtful tie. He said it's an easy drinking. I a designed to get you through the whole football game. Purple rain has a small menagerie. How about that word of holiday that provide mango pine grapefruit all the era Maddox that you need a firm, hop bitterness that doesn't linger in a multi body that provides mouth feel and a touch of baked bread in the flavor that we're all about. Mouth feel here on the solid verb. That is a description if I've ever heard one. Thank you, Robin, Matt for Ryan. That's the red hook brewery, right? That is red hook, yeah, isn't that? I mean, that's is that in Seattle, there's a red in Brooklyn. Okay. Is in Syria confusing to me. The, I think I'm gonna go flannel Friday. Yeah, I own flannel. I treasure flannel. I think you can get the harpoon wherever you want. I like a good. It's an amber ale, right? That's right. That's that's best for my Tump Tom. So that's why I'm doing all right. I expect to see pictures of it. I will get some as well. I will post. All right. Well, thank you to everyone out there. Again, stay safe this weekend, whether you're gosh, in the Florida panhandle or the southeast or just travel to a game somewhere else in the country stay safe. We want to have you back your on Sunday to talk through all of this weekend's action from smile. Don. For that. Go there. My good friend, Dan Rubenstein for myself, Ty Hildebrand. Thanks again for tuning into the show will catch on a few days. In the meantime. Stay up.
How To Do Well (And Be Happy!) In College
"This is NPR's life. I'm listen add warning an education reporter at NPR. Let's start first with an often controversial topic tape paper. We're at a study at North Carolina State University and the students here. They're getting ready for college. They have a couple full thoughts on this whole laptop versus paper thing so jack he says paper. I've been growing on favors better rating in your brain to Good point industry. Joe Agrees thing papers because then it's easier to draw diagrams into another kid named Jack. He goes for the laptop. I think the war is better. I can type. This might seem like a pretty silly discussion but learning how to study no one teaches you that stuff and a lot depends on it. It's a big problem him for a lot of college age students who maybe either didn't need to develop good study habits as when they were younger or who are finding that the demands are just now so high in college college that they don't really know how to keep up. Natalie Mar overseas the study camp and all the stuff they're talking about. That's we're GONNA tackle in this episode practical ideas to help you navigate the academics of college. And we'll help you avoid totally stressing out and what to do when all that pressure feels crushing. Because maybe you you didn't learn this stuff. Or you just need a reboot. 'cause you've spent a long time away. Don't worry we've got you after the break. So you've picked your classes. You found a place to live. You got the books now. It's time to buckle down and do college your academics and your that your knowledge of the material only get you so far then. You have to be able to demonstrate it so to figure out how to demonstrate that knowledge we're GONNA turn to Natalie Merck psychologist at NC State University the woman behind that study camp she's got takeaway number one. Learn how to take notes. I she says you gotTa know what to take notes on one to start US clues from the professor to signal. What's important and what's not these clues can be verbal or visual? Sometimes it's really obviously you might say. Hey this is going to be on the exam. Write this down or this is really important. We can keep an eye on what the teacher is doing when they teach. This is the visual part. Do they get really animated. Made it or do they repeat themselves a ton they might even write a few things down on the board and other clue to what's important categories and numbered lists be on the lookout out for the ways that professors will organize information. You know here are the categories of X.. There's three categories. Here's number one number two and number three if after after all of this. You're still unsure of what you should be learning. It's best to talk with the professor. They're the ones who will know what the course objectives are and they'll know what's on the test if you're nervous about talking with them we've got an episode about that. It's called congratulations. You're in college now. What so when it comes to how you write all this information down there are tons of note taking methods? There's one that uses bulletin lists another. Were you map it out by drawing circles and lines and another where you take notes in the margins of the book but Marseille's none of these are better than the other. There's no magic way to take notes doesn't matter if it's got a name or if edge to something you've created if it helps you to organize something or if it helps you wrap your head around something a little bit better than that. That's the style for you. Research shows does that simply taking notes writing down our interpretation of what we've learned it helps organize and consolidate that information in our brains so if you write down information I and that is as effective in terms of learning as reading the information multiple times and what about that laptop versus new question. Does it matter where you're taking taking the notes Moore says not really so really what you WanNa do is focus on the quality of your notes writing down only information that's important not the superfluous stuff. She says typing notes on a laptop is far more efficient but that volume can actually be a bad thing. Because you're just writing down a bunch of information and you're not focused on what is important I think in in this day and age. It's probably not realistic to say. Don't use a laptop but I would say make sure that you're focusing on short notes that are effectively summarizing information on only the key information instead of just writing down everything that professor saying verbatim. So you've got your notes and now you've got to carve out got some time to study. Managing your time is hard especially when you're working plus classes homework friends all of it so take away number to get it control of your schedule by a planner and actually use it right down your classes. Your work shifts. It will help you see when you have these small gaps in your schedule because even short window can allow you to knock out smaller tasks like right assured response or read a chapter of a book you can put assignments in their two deadlines headlines and reminders. It's super helpful. Okay you've carved out time in your planner to study seek thing. You have that planner but now breath. How do you actually study to answer that question? I talked with Pooja Agarwal. I would call myself an expert on how people learn. She's a cognitive scientist. INTAS at Berkley. School of Music in Boston and the author of a book about how teachers can better help their students learn. We know from a lot of research that the most common study strategies outages for college students are rereading textbooks rereading notes and highlighting and all of that focuses on the short term and it focuses on. I'm getting information in and this. She says does not actually help us. Learn because learning is a two way street with information coming in and information going out and cramming rereading highlighting. It's only focused on getting information in to demonstrate. This idea of retrieving information. Aggarwal throws out a quiz who is the fourth president of the United States. Most of US probably know the first president United States but the fourth president the United States ads. This little bit of challenge to be honest. I don't really know the answer so I know there's George Washington Yup I think maybe Adams Maybe there's even to Adams Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson Yup honestly. Usually I just google this so the fourth president of the United States you may have been trying to retrieve. We've is James Madison and that little struggle of retrieval is what helps boost that long term learning takeaway number three when studying. Don't just put information into your brain. Draw it back out. Agarwal's got a lot of great and specific. Ideas is on how to do this. So get your notebooks or your laptops. The first is called the two things rule. What are two things I learned? What are two things from that lecture lecture? I want to remember if I'm listening to a podcast. What are two things are really important for me to keep in mind so when you're done with a lecture or reading right those things down immediately research demonstrates that when we engage in that process of overtly retrieving we actually organized concepts concepts and create a better structure for what we're understanding? You can also try this with a classmate or your roommate. Here's Natalie Murph from NC state if you understand information well enough to then turn to your roommate and teach it to them. Then you've likely stored and remembered enough information to be able to then show that you you understand it yourself. Another study. Technique involves flash cards where one side is a question or a term and the other side is the definition or answer so this is a strategy outage. I kind of think like lather. Rinse repeat so step one lather. Try saying the answer out loud or writing down before you flip it over to see if it's correct so often will look at a flash card in the front and say. Oh Yeah. I know what photosynthesis is and flip over the next card and go. Yep I got it right and what. Students don't always do is provide that time to think or retrieve step. Two is rinse reorder the deck. So we remember information more when let me kind of shuffling up. It adds that extra challenge to our long-term learning step three repeat. Just because you've gotten the answer correct once doesn't is it mean you've actually learned it so this research that scientists have conducted suggests that we should at least try to retrieve something correct three Times okay quiz time. Who was the fourth president of the United States? I'll give you a second James Madison. We've heard from a ton of students who have studied tips. Some are quirky and maybe a little bit superstitious and I wanted to get arguelles. Take on some of these ideas. What about this idea? Apparently Queuing Gum Mellon UH particular killers. Having that influence like what's going to happen on the test I feel that based on a lot of research. What's most most important is what you do while you're studying more than where you study or how you take notes or if you're chewing in gum one popular method? She does like the pomodoro named after a tomato shaped kitchen timer. It's where you study for a period of time. Say Twenty five minutes and then you take a break then back to studying then a break and it's almost like a intentional forgetting or repurpose forgetting by taking that break. You're letting things similar a little bit but not too long and then come back to it again so you can get zone. Yes I would give the pomodoro technique that the other thing you may be tackling college. It is really complex readings and then you're probably going to have to write essays about those texts since this can be a bit. Daunting lots of colleges have writing centers staffed with reading and writing tutors visited one at amherst college a small Liberal Arts School in Massachusetts writing concentre. Cassie Sanchez works the center. And she's sitting down with Jada Jones an incoming freshman. This was just an introductory meeting. It's meant to introduce students like Jada to college. Castle wants to know about James Writing Experience in high school. I think something that's been interesting as in my literature class. It's more like unstructured writing that we've been in doing so just like right for five minutes and somehow like writing was a lot easier. Yeah absolutely I agree that that's a thing that you can incorporate into all of the different kinds of writing that you're doing if you have an assignment with a word count. Maybe two hundred or five hundred words does he says don't focus on the number just free write your the thoughts and then go back and edit through and cut it down rather than try to get the word count exactly on the first ago so and other Jada is reading from John. John Stuart Mill in her philosophy class. And no offense to the nineteenth century British philosopher. But it's a bit dense Kassy's tip even though it's written in English rush. See if you can translate breaking the thing down into its component parts and then figuring out if there's a way in which you can translate that into something that makes more sense career at a sentence so it's in your own words using terms you actually understand maybe you can relate to the context of TV show or a film or something. You just understand first-hand bit better you could also try to things rule that Pooja Agarwal the cognitive scientist clued us into another tab and heads Yummy. Not like this one. Don't listen to music when you're reading. Silence is better for focusing. There's a study demonstrating that reading an in silence boost reading comprehension almost doubles it compared to listening to music with lyrics trying to do complex things things in silence is a way to help us pay attention and engage with the material. If we're listening to music just to get through boring textbook then that might be more enjoyable but doesn't mean you're actually using your time wisely you may not be remembering or learning anything at all. Of course it can be hard to put these techniques into practice. Take it from Agarwal herself. In graduate school she was literally studying the science of learning and yet I distinctly McLean remember sitting in my apartment cramming overnight for her statistics exam. The next day she was doing last minute practice problems reading the textbook cramming cramming. I was positive I'M GONNA ACIS exam. I have spent so much time focused on this practiced it of gut this the next day. She took the exam and I bought it. I literally got an F. on assessing examine graduate school but despite that she went on to earn her PhD. She's professor fesser and she wrote a book so that brings us to take away number. Four failure isn't the end an F. test or even in a class it doesn't mean mean you won't graduate because you want doesn't mean you're a failure. Odette de Leon is an advisor at Valencia College. A Community College in Orlando Florida. Anyone one can do bad in a class. We're not born knowing college material. That's why we go to college. That's what we're college students. Were trying to learn these things. One of her jobs. Jobs is to work with students who have gone academic probation where their grades dipped so low. They were at risk for losing their scholarship. You Wanna do everything you can to avoid that position but oh death says even if it happens it doesn't mean it's the end. It's okay if you didn't if you didn't do your semester or if you did it in class the world is not over and for sure your college career is not over. You have to continue until you finish because you have a goal and you're GONNA meet that goal if if you just push through it's always hard to hear negative things about yourself and bad grades are no exception for being hard on yourself can just make it worse. Sometimes you need to arrest your body and your brain nearly everyone. I talked to suggested one secret recipe for college success. It's takeaway numbers five. Get some sleep. We know that students who are lacking in sleeper are sleep deprived show many of the same symptoms and difficulties. As students. Who've been diagnosed he knows with attention disorders? That's Natalie Murph the NC state psychologist. She says if you're not sleeping well you can have trouble paying attention and focussing and that makes it harder to write right down the information when you're in class and then of course if you don't write down the right information you don't have it then to study and recall later you're not going to be able to do The things we've talked about here very efficiently. The same is true for emotional wellbeing and mental health. More explains we only have so much brain capacity. You know if you're really sleepy or if you're really struggling emotionally there's not a lot of motivation to get up and go to class or do your work or put the effort that needs to be done so they can really kind of take up space in the brain that would otherwise be open for learning to understand a bit more about how to handle your mental antle health. While in college I called a Bi hibs and Anthony Rothstein their own. A book called the stressed years of their lives all about mental health on campus and they said a lot of students students they mix up like making mistake getting a be as catastrophic behaves. Got The idea for this book. Because of her son I learned mini lessons from a pretty scary crisis that he experienced when our son came home from school from a break freshman year. He told her he was was having suicidal thoughts and he was scared to go back at first. hibs wasn't sure how seriously to take this. But she trusted what he was saying. Eventually her son took a leave of absence. What I would also say to parents is if your student calls and is in distress listen? Don't judge be supportive that will allow them to continue to share issues and problems when our son came home. He was treated by Dr Rothstein and eventually he went back to college. Their book they say is just another way to talk about. How pervasive mental health issues on college campuses? So that's our takeaway number six when it comes to mental health. Let go of the stigma. One out of two Americans over their lifetime will have a diagnosis mental health disorder order. They're highly treatable. It's not something to be scared about. Two says if you have a cough cough drops or coughs up a sore ankle. Maybe an ace bandage just likely treat a physical problem. Why should we treat brain any differently takeaway number seven? Are you stressed or depressed. The I don't know when to reach Chow Ka Stressing College. Let's face it adulthood. It's like this weird badge of honor and we throw the turnaround willy. Nilly that can make it really hard to recognize if all that weight you feel in. Your mind isn't normal a lot of times. The onset of this is so gradual and the and the use of stress. I'm stressed out is so common that that kids don't recognize. Oh this is actually a clinically treatable anxiety or a clinically treatable Paul Depression most mental health disorders pop up between ages. Sixteen and Twenty Four. Dr Austin suggests warning signs to look out for having trouble trouble sleeping having trouble waking up not eating low energy feeling like you're just worthless extreme sense of guilt. Hopelessness hopelessness is the number. One warning sign hopelessness. That not only are things bad but they're never going to get better and then coupled with that. The thought thought that you'd be better off dead. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide you can call one eight hundred two seven three talk. That's one eight hundred two seven three eight two two five five or you can text the word start. Start two seven four one seven four one. That will put you in touch with someone who can help. The Jed Foundation is also a great resource may specialize in supporting teens and young adults as they transition into adulthood and actually has a website called you life dot Org. That's the letter U. Than the word lifeline dot. Org there you can search more than sixteen hundred colleges to find out what their mental health resources on campus are other warning warning signs to be aware of our drinking beyond your limits blacking out having lots of random sexual partners not being able to stop playing video games. If you have a trusted adult they can be a good resource in this moment. When Dr Rothstein was struggling with depression in college he went to go see his college dean who was also a psychiatrist and a man he really really trusted and he looked at me and he said you know you really need to take better care yourself and I started to cry and say I don't know what I'm doing here? I don't WanNa be in college. And he we really gave me what I think is a life preserver by saying well. Why don't you find something you'd like to do on that Dean's advice? Rothstein ended up taking a break from college he. He was in a much better place and had developed tools to stay healthy by the time he returned to get his degree. If we're not sure how to establish a relationship with a mentor or adult on on campus. We've got a bunch of tips in the first episode of this guide. The other important resource on campus is the counseling center or the Mental Health Facility. If you're feeling intimidated about going in there Dr Rothstein has this advice. Going in with the attitude of I WANNA get some help with x a specific problem. I'm encountering to make it very concrete like I'm having trouble falling asleep. Because I'm worrying before we do our recap one more question. Who was the fourth president of the United States? Okay final answer James Madison. Come on you you that I know you did. You're going to have to throw that out at parties now it's locked in their takeaway takeaway number one learn how to take notes in class. Look for clues like categories or things that are repeated. Here are the categories of X.. There's three categories here is number number one number two and number three take number to get control of your schedule by a planner and actually use it. Take away number three when studying. Don't just put information in Cheer Brain. Draw it back out. When we engage in that process of overtly retrieving we actually create a better structure for what we're understanding takeaway number? Four failure is not the end. We're not born knowing college material. That's why we go Moore College. That's what we're college students. We're trying to learn these things. Take away number five. Take care of yourself and get some sleep takeaway number six like oh of the stigma around mental health. One of two Americans over their lifetime will have a diagnosis of mental health disorder. They're highly treatable. It's not something to be scared about you can ask. Are you stressed or are you depressed. Look for details. What's going on in your life for more of NPR's life get check out our other episodes in this guide? There's one about talking to your professor and picking your classes and another one on getting a job or actually a job. You really want if you liked what you hear. Make sure you check out the other life kit guides at NPR dot org slash life kit. And while you're there you can subscribe to our newsletter so you don't Miss Anything. We we got more guides coming out every month on all sorts of topics and here as always is a completely random. Tip this time from Listener Josh Gordon. So my tip is if you are baking cookies and you want to spray Pam on the cookie sheet and you don't want the Pam to go everywhere you open up the Dishwasher Washer and put the cookie sheet on the open dishwasher and you spray Pam on about if you've got a good tip for a topic you want us to explore. Please let us know. Email us at life kit at NPR dot. Org I'm Melissa. Thank you for listening celebrity. Chefs Samir knows. Rat will not do events anymore if she's the only brown person speaking often like I have at the ready list of names because a lot of times. The excuses like confined. uh-huh couldn't find one the stories behind the celebrities every Tuesday on. It's been a minute from N._p._R..
Spike In Air Pollution In U.S.
"Get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply this message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races other things are fast like Xfinity X. by is that are emitted in the atmosphere they become particles so sulfur dioxide nitrogen oxide organic compounds if it goes back to things like refineries and industries that you solvents and it touches on so many different industries and sectors of the economy that controls that can be used for large what we call stationary sources like power plants and industrial boilers to capture particles but they're also gas press release we learned that current EPA Administrator Wheeler had disbanded our panel in the middle of a review cycle and we were giving no reason on the health effects of particulate matter and just 'cause we're separated from EPA doesn't mean we can't keep doing that so you and your colleagues have Have continued to do this work on your North Carolina State University Dr Fray thanks so much for being with us now thank you Scott a research out of Carnegie Mellon points to a rise in particular the air you breathe into your blood and so these particles can cause a range of effects from
After Cruise Ships and Nursing Homes, Will Universities Be the Next COVID-19 Tinderboxes?
"After cruise, ships and nursing homes, will universities be the next covid nineteen tinder boxes by Katie Mac and Gavin Jamie. Mac is a theoretical cosmetologist author and Assistant Professor of Physics at North Carolina State University Jamie is a physician and professor of global. Health and public policy at Duke University, where he directs the Center for policy, impact on global health. The full semester has yet to begin, but student athletes training for the season can already be found on college campuses across the US and so can covid nineteen since the start of July there have been at least two outbreaks among student athletes, coaches and staff with thirty seven infected at the University of North Carolina Unc Chapel Hill and twenty two at Boise state clusters of infection of been traced to college town bars popular with students. A common misconception is that young people with covid nineteen don't die, and therefore college reopenings pose little risk. Sadly, this isn't the case Cova. Nineteen deaths in the young are rare, but they happen universities across the US or mourning the loss of students in the lead up to the school year in. Joshua Bush a thirty year old nursing student at the University of South Carolina. Trevor Sipho slee a twenty seven year old senior, at Utah, Valley University and one Garcia a twenty one year old Penn state undergraduate. One might imagine that the rapid uncontained spread of a serious and poorly understood disease, which is already carrying students would cause universities all across America to put their reopening plans on hold. Unfortunately, that's not the case. The Chronicle of higher education compiled a database of the full reopening plans of over a thousand colleges and universities, and found that sixty percent are going to open for business and bring all of their students back. Given? How much is still unknown about the virus and especially its long-term effects on those infected this could be the largest scale uncontrolled public health experiment America has ever undertaken with students, staff, faculty, parents and communities as the unwitting tests objects, no other nation has reopened schools and universities with the level of rampant community transmission. We see in the US today or with so little coordination or guidance as to protective measures. The rush to reopen his driven by the very reasonable conviction that universities and colleges ought to provide their students face to face classroom teaching and a residential campus experience there is more to college than the transmission of knowledge and online. Learning has significant disadvantages, but during a pandemic, both classrooms and presumably campus residential settings present risks, universities are not equipped to handle. Safety measures proposed so far revolve around sanitation masks and physical distancing. These must be sufficient for a trip to the supermarket. For several reasons, they are likely to fail in the context of daily life at a university I. Some colleges are only encouraging, not mandating mask wearing this fall drastically reducing effectiveness when a strict rule is in place, classroom enforcement will likely be up to individual instructors and proper. Use EEG A snug fit that keeps all noses covered cannot be guaranteed. Second physical distancing is a moving target. Some states have argued that four feet of distancing is enough in the classroom on the assumption that everyone will only cough or breathe straight ahead. UNC Chapel Hill even suggested that three feet would do until an outcry caused them to reverse course. Third evidence suggests that when students and instructors bend extended time together in the classroom, even universal mask use and six feet of distancing may not be enough. There is a growing consensus that in places with an uncontrolled covert nineteen epidemic, being inside a building where people are talking such as a bar restaurant office or classroom puts you at risk of infection. We now know that. SARS covy to the virus that Causes Cova nineteen can linger in the air in the form of tiny droplets, aerosols and can infect people as they breathe in research. Research has shown that. Air Flow can transmit aerosolize D- SARS covy too much further than six feet in the absence of constant and efficient ventilation, viral particles can remain airborne for at least three hours in most universities opening all the windows and doors would be impractical or impossible and air conditioning systems can waft recycled air over occupants for hours masks help, but they are not perfect protection. Not surprisingly many professors, particularly those who are older or have pre existing medical conditions say they will refuse to teach inside classrooms, but to be able to refuse. You need some degree of power. There's a real risk that so-called contingent faculty those in insecure, unsupported positions with little job, security and few protections for academic freedom will have no choice. They will feel pressured to teach in person or be replaced. Beyond the classroom, colleges and universities are congregate settings that are known to create high risk for viral transmission akin to nursing homes or cruise ships. The campus experience includes bringing students together in dormitories, dining halls, athletic training, parties, bars and clubs gatherings that would risk becoming super spreading events. Some universities are hoping that a pre semester quarantine period an honor code that encourages students to self report symptoms and adopt masks and distancing and campus wide contact tracing will help avert catastrophe. But a recent study led by Dr Sheri Goto at the University of Connecticut, a survey of two thousand, six hundred ninety eight students, who will be returning to campus in a few weeks, and in depth interviews with a further thirty five students suggests that many obstacles lie ahead, especially, if students are not meaningfully engaged in the reopening planning process, Dr Pagoda has showed the initial findings on social media. Every student said quarantine is not realistic and will fail. They also said that. If they develop my old covid nineteen systems, they may not report them. They become infected. They'd be reluctant to tell the university about their contacts. Especially those at bars. They were pessimistic about the safety of social events. Suggesting mask use would not be universal. The fact that one hundred seventeen students at University of Washington, fraternities of testing positive since late June suggests that such fears are well-founded. The overarching message seems to be that just telling students not to do things and leaving it at that is not a reliable policy. While the risk of death from covid nineteen is lower among the young than the old. We've seen that young adults can die of the disease, and the risk is five to nine times higher among those who are black Latin or indigenous, even if they recover from the initial acute illness infection with the novel Corona virus can have debilitating long term consequences including lung, disease, heart, problems, brain, damage and mental health problems, and we don't know yet. What other lingering effects the disease might have. Infections among students will also put the lives of others around them at risk, the highest risk of death will be amongst service and maintenance staff on campus, cleaners, bus, drivers, food, service, employees, janitors, facilities, managers, and support staff who wheeled little institutional power, a recent outbreak of covid nineteen among housekeepers at UNC. Chapel, Hill tasked with cleaning the rooms of student. Athletes is just the tip of the iceberg. Over forty percent of service and maintenance staff on us. University campuses are people of Color who are at elevated risk of dying if they become infected with SARS covy to. For the city where a campuses based reopening will be like dropping a cruise ship into the center of town and giving passengers free rein campus outbreaks cannot be hermetically sealed. They will inevitably caused a spike in community spread, affecting the city state, and beyond universities that fully reopen in the midst of an uncontrolled epidemic will bear responsibility for the damage. They caused to their wider communities. What would it take to reopen safely? We can look to Taiwan as an example rather than leaving individual universities to piece together their own plans. Taiwan's Ministry of Education produced a national strategy for college campuses. The strategy included an initial quarantine frequent testing of all students sanitation masks, distancing reduction of student density cleaning dorms twice daily with bleach, and allowing only one student per dining table. It also included mandatory quarantine for anyone exposed and infection number thresholds at which an entire university would shut down with this huge array of protective measures on campus. Taiwanese universities were able to reopen successfully and see a total of just seven confirmed university-based cases by June eighteenth, and only four new cases nationwide since then. Aside from the safety protocols more rigorous than any, we've seen proposed in the US. Taiwan's universities have another advantage America's. A well controlled epidemic with virtually no community transmission todate. Taiwan has had only four hundred fifty one cases and seven deaths. Not a single state in the US has had any thing like that level of success. In that context. It's hard to see how any US. University could have a safe on campus reopening plan comprehensive enough to succeed. We understand the financial pressures that colleges and universities are facing. Some could risk bankruptcy without the revenue that reopening will generate. We also recognize the enormous benefits of campus life, and in person teaching, and the wishes of some students and parents to experience these, but at what price. These institutions need to be honest about their trade-offs. They should publish their estimates of the number of infections, hospitalizations and deaths that reopening will cause that will allow students, instructors, parents, and the wider community to better understand how much suffering must be endured, and by whom, as the price for the benefits of reopening these institutions should also state clearly what level of illness will trigger another shut down. The trump administration is applying increasing pressure on the education system to reopen hoping that Americans will grow numb. To covid nineteen deaths, colleges and universities should not become complicit in fostering numbness. Even if suspending in person tuition would threaten their financial viability, they should put the health and safety of their students, instructors, service and maintenance, staff and communities I. who else do they exist to serve?
Two Cents - 7 December 2020
"Teachers around the world at every grade level us away with words in classrooms as a launching pad for discussion learners of all kinds it to sharpen their skills and yet another language help us help them by giving wayward radio dot org slash donate today. Thank you you're listening to a way with words the show about language and how we use it. I'm grant ferret and martha barnette grant. I've been reading a book in a field. I know almost nothing about. And there's a whole lot in this book about guts and toes. You mean got like my innards in toes like the little things in my feet actually no spelt the same way g. ut and teo e but their acronyms oh acronyms te'o e top of Everest gt get under table earthquake advice. Right i don't know what are they. What's what is it. what are you learning about martha. It's always something new. This is a book about cosmology. Gut is a physicist term. four grand unified theory and tell t. e. You probably remember. Stephen hawking talking about this. I read his book when i was a kid. Okay yeah the theory of everything right. That makes perfect sense. Yeah this is a fascinating book. It's called the end of everything astro physically speaking. And it's by katie mack. Who is an assistant professor of physics at north carolina state university and katie. Mac is a theoretical astro physicist. Which means that she studies cosmology seeking to understand the universe from. It's very beginning to. It's very end. She's trying to find fundamental truths about the way that universe works and It's challenging book but she's an amiable nerd who's endlessly fascinated by her topic. She's the scientists that you want to sit down next to the pub and just let him rip or are beyond an airplane with from coast to coast right sitting next to. Yeah i want. I want next to an obituary writer from the new york times on an airplane. It was one of the best fights i've ever had. Oh well that's really. It was really fantastic. Oh my gosh that is on my lifetime bingo card so you said the book was very challenging imagining that despite it being challenging you're finding all this language to latch onto and you're of hopping from toads due to told stool language to language. Bit to kind of rescue as i do. That's exactly so. I do want to talk about that book a little bit more later in the show and i'd love to hear what you're reading. Oh yeah. I'd love to talk about what i'm reading too. And you know martha and i would like to hear what you're reading. What you think everyone else should be reading to eight seven seven nine two nine nine seven three or talk to us about anything related to language words speech writing literature slang new words old words or old expressions and new expressions words at wayward radio dot org or on twitter at w. a. y. w. r. d. Hi there you have a way with words. Hi how are you. My name is cole and i'm calling from indianapolis great. Well what would you like to talk with us about well. My husband and i have been in dispute about the word bui. He is from england and he is convinced that the way that we should say. This word is boy And i am from new england. And i disagree. I think it's buoy So we were hoping for some clarification and Maybe to avoid divorce to of what we usually ask. What the stakes are. You know thinking week or something but this is great. This may be the the high-stakes we're talking t- in the harbor and the whole thing right yes yes. Bu oh why right. Yeah yes okay tell me how often are you encountering this word in your daily life. Well yeah not as often as you would think but we do like to Bring it up with each other Probably partly because of the accents Yeah so we were visiting my family in new hampshire and went to the sea coast and on the restroom doors. They had the you. Oh y For the jets and then on the ladies they had go g allies. So this is where dominic said that He's like look. It's boys and girls and i said no. Please go so. He accosted a stranger to try to get Somebody on his side and the stranger agreed with me so it's just been heated ever since oh goodness i bet this daily but this isn't the only word right. This isn't the only dispute here. No it is not A his argument which i really struggled to to come up with a defense against his. When you say the word buoyant say bully and so i you know i get a bit at that point orient and buoyancy and lifebuoy soap. That's right we don't say buoyant and buoyancy in light buoy soap now much to my chagrin but that's okay there are lots of words it don't behave in panic. English isn't consistent at all. You know it wasn't. It wasn't a built language. it's an accredited language. So nobody planned it it. Just kind of you know happened. You've come across one of those real nice differences between uk and us english. it bears repeating here that uk. English isn't the supreme form of english and there isn't just one. Uk english as soon as people left those shores for foreign shores. They started creating new varieties of english. And so did we. So their english has changed as much as ours has so go talk in particular about this word but it's true. Almost everyone there pronounces the word be. Oh y as boy although some say it as boy of almost as if there's a w. after the be although it's less common and many americans all americans say buoy and some say boy so it's just it's just un-american way of saying it and it's probably an inheritance from history where we kept an older pronunciation of the word that they dropped probably simple as that. Okay i like to tell him that You know when people came over and settled in new england that we got the language. But then we've evolved it the correct way more evolved. Maybe a better way to put. It is that we've had influences that they haven't had so a lot of cognitive. That is words that are very similar to boy or buoy exist in many european languages including french spanish dutch and german which have left their own imprint on american english. And i'm not sure of the history of this word in american english. It's possible that are transition. The word is influenced from those other languages in a way that you uk. English is not you know. And it's possible that retained a regional pronunciation of the word that has long since been dropped in the uk or english regional are british regional print station that the uk dropped and that happens a lot. So there's no question of right or wrong here. It's what was retained or what was created. So there's going to be increasing divergence over centuries. Eventually it'll be like spanish and portuguese. I think right. Yeah so. I think what grant is saying. Is that you're both right and you can stay married brilliant. Well that definitely right. Does he insist on of the road asking that only after midnight. I mean winning. Indiana to indiana's right hoosiers. Yes okay now by. We're buoyed up by your calls. Eight seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three or e mail words at wayward radio. Dot org. Hello you away with words. This morgan from phoenix. How are you. Hi morgan welcome to the show. What's up. I'm a plant engineer and i ended up working with a lot of really smart people. You know like engineers and technicians and operators. But i've found that like all of these technical people Regardless of their age or area of expertise like have really poor spelling skills and often Have what i call it. Homophones confusion so i ended up doing a lot of words sniffing Whenever viewing their documents and it ended up being kind of my legacy in a way. However i sent an email recently or i said i would pour over a document p. o. u. r. and someone replied and used poor p. o. r. e. in the same context in response. And i realized i didn't know which one was correct and you know i might have been a little bit called out on that so i'm wondering which is which is the correct one. It's hard when you've been promoted kind of indirectly as the office language maven and no pressure there and you don't happens everywhere. There's always that person who is unofficially. Sometimes officially the one that people of its new. Look at this this is really important. you're worried that you confused you're poor and your poor. Yes which isn't a big deal but like you said for me. It is a big deal. I'm time to approach. It was. I tried to think of well p. Oh you are. you're really pouring yourself into it physically. And then on the other hand you have p. o. r. e. something very small and detailed some like. Oh i could. I could see how either of these make sense. But that's not really how language works all the time. You're you're right about. That's not how language works mortgage and the truth. Is that the correct word to use in. Those situations is p. o. r. e. Pour over something. Don't really know the origin of poor in that sense p. o. r. e. but it goes back to the early thirteenth century A word that means to gaze intently year. Look really closely at something but you make a good case for why you would mistake it as p o you are you know. You're pouring your attention. Your pouring your mind out over that page so the homophones does make sense nick. People have been confusing it. For centuries right. Grant founded in a derbyshire england newspaper in seventeen. Seventy a line about a gentleman in a curcumin perje. Men's poring over a file of country papers. We'll maybe he was. They meant the peo- ari but again and again throughout the centuries you can find people making that same mistake morgan. So don't feel bad. You're not alone so it sounds like maybe you have a rival maven or something there. I believe i do and what happy you pass that. The time An one yeah. Maybe it's not a rival. Maybe maybe it's a fellow word nerd merigo i would like i would like to think so because some of these guys i'll tell you what they sell like a horse just like two hubs on the keyboard. I don't know what's going on. We all have our strings. And i hope that i don't know what your plant makes does. But hopefully they're good at the rest of their jobs. Oh absolutely i think it's kind of trade off. I think you can't be good at everything. It's just interesting mouse go. They seem to have this in common. And i don't know maybe a little bit of a little bit of jealousy in that regard. It's great morgan. Thanks so much that you'll never spell this wrong again right absolutely not. I've learned my lesson. Thank you so much open for absolute source of a wholesome entertainment recreational education for so many people. We just love you. thank you very much. Take care of yourself by eight. Seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three support for a way with words comes from a gift honoring students of the san diego community college district city college mesa college miramar college and continuing education. Prepare them for jobs personal goals and transferred to universities. Cd dot edu away with words is funded in large part by donations from worldwide. Podcast listeners. Like you go to wayward radio dot org slash donate to keep new episodes coming. Thank you you're listening to a way with words the show about language and how we use it. I'm martha barnett. And i'm grant barrett and we're joined by our quiz guy. Johnson esky from new york city. Hi john hi greg. Hi martha john. I heard that you guys are familiar at least familiar with a video game called among us. Have you heard of that. Yes recently came to charity even though had been out for a couple of years. That's right. it's suddenly hot all the sudden. My kids love it in this game player show to figure out which among them are traders who are sabotaging the group now among players of among us popular word slang. Suss player is us. They're suspected they are suspected or suspicious. Because of course we don't have time to say or type suspicious so just type s. Us or say us so it got me. Feeling bad for orphan syllables. What's wrong with vicious. Let's give time in the sun. So i'm going to get a little closer to my phone and give you clues to police. Elastic words that are commonly abbreviated their first three letters. I want you to give me just the orphan syllables for example. If i said your track team was supposed to be a practiced today but it was raining all day. What did you do you might respond with. We ran laps in the knees. Eum got it got it not in your nose your nose no different kind of nays eum here. We go his first one. I've been using a website to keep track of the number of calories. I burn but i can't bring my computer with me. I wish there was more portable option. Oh location i wish says the location location. I wished it was a location for that as in application location on my teller so you guys were an hour late to my dinner party. What happened. car trouble We ran out of olien. Oh you're in the lean. Yes no gas lean car. Don't very good. This one is part of a common two word term. Hey you know. I love what you've done with your new house. What do you call this area. We keep your television and books and gaming system and karaoke machine and poker table all that stuff. Reation room. The reation room very nice. I love it. Now back to the newseum you've lifted that barbell forty nine times. Do you can give me just one more or you too exhausted Can you give me some more petitions. You can't do godmother another hit. That is single. Titian okay repetition right. Finally it's really great to work with someone who knows what they're doing someone who has a lot of experience in the field because they make their living at it. Astronauts they are as you guys are both professional festivals. I like to think. I'm a fashionable. Yes right throws pro iran with right. This is martha and gramp. This isn't the other the other professionals i work. I just wanna say that you guys were euless. You were fabulous nice job. Thanks john. we'll talk to you next week. Appreciate you guys talk to you. Then this shows about words and language and grammar and literature and speech and talking and writing and everything in between give us a call eight seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three email words at wavered radio dot org or talk to us on twitter at w. a. y. w. o. r. d. l. o. You have a way with words. Hi this is drew from washington. Dc are you guys. Hey drew how you doing. I'm doing really well really excited to be on today. Oh yeah we're glad to have you welcome. What is on your mind okay. So a few years ago. I went to a cracker barrel with my family. Well what i wanted was. I wanted to mix of lemonade. And i've always called that half-and-half though when i ordered a half and half. I was expecting eliminate iced tea combo but they gave me what was seemingly a mix of sweet tea and unsweetened tea when i asked waitress Like oh. I don't think this is what i ordered She's like oh. This is what. I thought you said when you said having happened so i thought you meant and then she was like yeah like i know those on palmer's and i was like interesting i had heard those kind of before but i thought half and half was kind of well known as a term and in the years since i've been trying to wonder who called arnold palmer versus who called the tavern. What kind of like the linguistics spread of that is I thought it would have to do with race. the black thing Some black and they call it half and half or maybe even class or even just like regional dialect but all the questions. I've asked all my friends around the country. There's just so much variation what they call it so it was wondering if you guys provide any sort of insight on what the origin of the phrases and what the spread of it is okay. Oh i think we can help here a little bit. Martha can't we. Yeah i'm actually surprised that That this was maryland. Because i know in baltimore in particular half and half is is a really popular drink And it usually refers to What we call an arnold palmer. You have that with a chicken box. Yeah i i grew up South of baltimore in a suburb. Okay everyone they're half and half to to my knowledge. All my friends called. I'm not aware of particular distribution of half-and-half referring to what we think of as an arnold palmer. The half lemonade and half sweet. Tea is kind of here. And they're all over the country. Wouldn't you say grant. Yeah my my understanding was though that that's what arnold palmer called it himself. I When he started drinking this concoction in the nineteen sixties right and he kept going in and ordering these and pretty soon they just got associated with With you know. It's like arnold palmer going in and asking for the usual and Yeah that's but. I'm really interested in the mix of teas you can find some mentions of that but again it's like i was saying that Joked about it. But it's for those people who just can't stomach all that sugar and the southern sweet tea's and just needed. It's a way of getting your sweet tea a little less sweet because it's made already sweetened in. There's no way to get unsweetened if you ask for unsweetened tea people say will. We don't have that. So so usually they'll add up or something else and more often. I've heard half-and-half referred to in the in the context of of alcoholic beverages like Like a guinness and harp because the guinness will will lie there nicely on top of the the lighter ale. Yeah like a stout in and together right. I've actually i've never heard of it. Alcohol context only. Yeah yeah that goes back to gosh at. Lisa's seventeen fifties but But yeah if you've found an interesting instance of that. I was willing to do to grow drinking vis. And what did you guys call it growing up. So no i didn't grow up drinking it in kentucky ahead. It may be once as a young adult. And i thought it was so exotic. We drink sweet tea after the southern tradition. My father's house and eliminated. I'm sorry to thrown thrown out there. Yeah you've been in the yard with all your belongings real fast but i agree with martha. There doesn't seem to be any regionality to it. I think it's just what you learned when you grew up It was probably called half-and-half originally although arnold palmer didn't invent the drink it existed before him other records from the forties and the fifties and menus and newspapers of similar drinks And they're a mini other drinks sense that have been than it had been mixtures of tea and lemonade and other things. There are other names. Like sunshine t and then. Of course there are the The spiked versions of the arnold palmer's tipsy palmer. Yeah yeah. We're the john daly named for another golfer who who liked to drink. He's with vodka merit more research. Um food ways are a kind of a sideline of ours because they map so well with word ways so to speak With look at the habits of eating and the habits of speaking kind of braided together like a long rope some. Maybe we need to look more into this martha what you call the tea and lemonade mixture in your house. What did you grow up with our. What do you call it in a professional capacity. Let us know and drew. Thank you for your call and thanks for bringing us up really appreciate it. Thanks bye bye. I've been thinking lately about prestige. All right is there a trick here. Yes actually this is another layer. Yes yes yes there is but the the thing is that you always come up with or you often come up with Exactly where i'm going. Because there is a trick with the word prestige because it comes from the latin the classical latin price digging which means trick deceit or illusion and early on in english prestige. Meant an illusion. A conjuring trick a deception and imposture and was also super cool is that it appears that the pronunciation of this word was prestige prestigious about that. That reminds me of something surprises. People at the word balcony was originally pronounced. Belco yeah but fascinated me to learn that early on it was an illusion or a trick and then it became the idea of Impressive influence or glamour and then and then later on prestige as we think about it today. You know something that's I think the reason. I thought that is because there is a very excellent movie called the prestige with christian. Bale and hugh jackman oh really and a prestige. Magicians as well. And i know a little bit about those local that language that lexicon. Wow i'd love to hear about that some time to do recommend that movie it is quite something and i don't want to spoil any of it but talking about it at all. Oh cool eight. Seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three. Hello you have a way with words. Yes you do and who is this. Apparently so name is joan me. I'm originally from the south. Bronx and i live in upstate. New york i'm seventy six. I've had a lot of experience with different phrases insane. That is very unfamiliar to upset people to dialogue. That i have riding along with a friend was a call coming up very quickly on the on the right and i said you but it get this car white birth so then she said to me afterwards they were trying to end to with they really come in way too close to it so she said well word you use birth what birth i said oh that means like i guess originally from maritime you know the ships you know coming into the bird or give another ship avoid birth in new york city used it as a you know a certain people you wouldn't want really hang out to whatever you need to crossover and say you know maybe we should get them. You know what they're right john. You're exactly right And you're spilling you i in this case be rta right b. i. r. t. h. b. e. r. t. h. y. Correct yes. I'm interested that that you mentioned the maritime connection. That's exactly it if you go back to This dictionary. i'm looking at from the from seventeen. Thirty defines birth. Originally bart ages convenient. See room or a fit distance for ships under sail to keep clear so as not to fall foul on one another. So it's exactly as you described. It's it's giving Another vessel plenty of room. Did you know the maritime connection already up. Definitely because i live near the river and their tribal bridge and and we we swam the docks there. I mean you know that would go swimming pool so you know the ships that commend the ball juiced and everything and you heard a lot of terminology like that. So that was my you know knowledge of it. That is appreciate the figurative usage. You were talking about about giving people a wide berth meetings. Stay away from them or keep them in a safe distance because of giving a wide. Berth can be about the psychological or emotional distance as well as the physical distance waltz. I mean it's fish in it. It's fascinating that there's so many terminologies in other words. If you go on it on his trip you you know you can be an a bird. The loa burdened travel. You know what i mean. I know not from nets joan. You sound like a kindred spirit and we're really glad you called thank you so much. It's wonderful to be anonymous. Joe all right bye bye bye. Go make a berth for you on our radio show you so you can talk to us about language. Give us a call. Eight seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three email words wave radio dot org or try us on twitter at w. a. y. w. ardy allow you play with words. Hello my name is Go paul i'm calling from. Greenville not curly in. Welcome to the show. How can we help thank you yeah i was always wondering about the phrase might do sense so whenever in office communications usually people put it at the end after saying that an opinion from idea they put at the end. That's okay this might do sense. I was wondering as to what the origin of that phrase or more importantly why don't they call it somebody once and they represent malaysia. Why did they say my two cents. Plus a really good question. And it's a really useful phrase. Isn't it because it sort of colors. What has come before right. You're it's a. It's a kind of almost a humble or or a modest little addition to it it. Softens what you've just said correct. Yes yeah i understand. The usage part of Sometimes it's it doesn't do us any good to look at english too closely and and parse phrases to carefully but The the term twopence tuppence has been around since at least the sixteenth century. To mean of very little value or paltry or worthless. Sometimes english just isn't logical. You can see examples of this back to the the nineteenth century at least And i know that links have come up with a couple of examples from philadelphia where people were using that expression and using it in quotation marks. Here's my two cents. you know. Sometimes it just doesn't pay so to speak to To parse english too closely. I want this around though and talk about something you said early in the call which i think deserves some attention. Which is we often tack on. Well that's my two cents at the end of an opinion and the reason we do. This is to let people know that were open to discussion. And that were willing to kind of hedging our statement were were letting them know that we mean what we say but we're also willing to soften our opinion a little bet. It's a way of reaching out to other person. Let them know that. We're maybe willing to negotiate or willing to accept other points of view and and that is a way of showing a little bit of kindness. Or does that make sense. Okay so we are saying that. We are not fixated on lower idea but we are open to other. I just sit in addition hooker. It's a really important thing to do when you're working with other people right to make sure that they know that you're thinking about them as much as you're thinking about yourself okay. That's good yeah. I hope we've done a little untangling here for you. Yeah yeah. I guess. But i'm really One shouldn't approach To much Like logically mathematically so language okay. Language isn't logical and pigs. Don't sing opera. Thank you take care. Bye all right for so. That's our tuppence-worth that that's how they said in britain you know that's just my tuppence worth. You can believe whatever you want and this is different than penny for your thoughts. These are completely independently derived idioms. But the idea of a penny for your thoughts is that a penny used to have a lot of value penny was right. A penny was like somebody You know a twenty dollar. Bill is mutual. Sixty four thousand dollar question. Used to be much more valuable right. You could buy a house and now maybe down payment right at eight seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three. This show is about language examined to family history and culture stay tuned for more support for a way with words comes from jack and caroline raymond proud sponsors of wayward inc. The nonprofit that produces and distributes this program. You're listening to a way with words. The show about language how he use it. I'm grant barrett. And i'm martha burnett. I was talking earlier in the show about the book. I just finished by katie. Mac called the end of everything and she's a Cosmologists at north carolina state university and she studies the beginning of the universe and the end of the universe or what we can tell about it from the science that we know right now. It was a pretty ambitious read for me. I have to confess that. I'm my mind is a little sore from the workout but it was. It was great mental cross training to at least try to read this book. I'll confess that a lot of it was over my head but you know over is relative if you think about it. If you think about the cosmos word is relative and the fact that. I'm even thinking in these terms however simplistically i i think is a is a testament to the book itself but i did want to share a passage that is an example of sort of the mind expanding way that katy mac rights and it also includes a term. That was new to me. It is said that astronauts returning from space carry with them a change perspective on the world the overview effect in which having seen the earth from above they can fully perceive how fragile our little oasis is and how unified we ought to be as a species as perhaps the only thinking beings in the cosmos for me thinking about the ultimate destruction of the universe is just such an experience. There's an intellectual luxury in being able to ponder the farthest reaches of deep time and in having the tools to speak about it coherently when we asked the question. Can this all really go on forever. We're implicitly validating our own existence extending it indefinitely into the future taking stock and examining our legacy acknowledging an ultimate end gives us context meaning even hope and allows us paradoxically to step back from our petty day. Today concerns and simultaneously live more fully in the moment the overview effect. Yeah i've heard of that before the the pictures looking back from saturn's rings of this tiny glowing dot that happens to be earth realize out utterly small we are against this pin all these pinpoints of the other stars in our galaxy in the universe behind. Yeah yeah it really gives us some perspective. And and i don't know i feel like i needed that right now. Just just really zooming out to look at the earth but sounds like a wonderful book. I had a a another experience through my son's is he recommended a book series to me which he doesn't often do. But all these years my wife. And i mostly my wife have been reading books to him at bedtime and they started on lois. Lowry's the giver series. This book has been around for quite some time in his well known in a young adult circles and often recommended by libraries and librarians and teachers often recommend it to their students but it was new to me and he said he wanted me to read it so that we can discuss it as a family so i started it and this series gave me a perspective on what he's going through as a teenager because it's about a young boy jacob who lives in a strange society where Life is highly regulated and controlled. Their feelings are repressed. They don't see color. They don't have the same relationships with each other that we have their assigned spouses children. The first book gives the series. Its name it's called the giver and the boy reaches an age where he is to be assigned his adult duties. He will train for and he's assigned to be the receiver and he meets the giver. This new position puts him in a place to learn histories feelings and sensations. That have been kept from everyone else in his community and this knowledge changes his life and leads to a dramatic ending. The second book is seemingly unconnected when you first read it but across the four books You kind of see the all of these four stories coming together and they all deal with young people coming of age and the all deal with decisions and culture that these young people have inherited And they're all wrestling with their places in it and whether or not they can accept those past decisions of others and this culture as as they are or whether they must change them or or fight against them. And i've really been enjoying these not least because my son recommended them and obviously connect to him. But also because the protagonist unlike a lot of young adult literature they're not jonty sex pots or or your typical young adult heroes. You know it's not all about you know. Do they find me attractive. This bad guy. You know paragraph alternating with smooch is on one paragraph and sword fights in another so anyway My son guthrie recommends. Lois lowry's the giver series. And so do i. And we'd love to know what you're reading. Give us a call. Eight seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three or tell us all about it in email. Words wayward radio dot. Org hi there. You have a way with words. Hi martha This is laura. I'm calling from ithaca new york. Hey laura welcome to the show. I have a question about a word. I found in the cornell fight song the word is piker. It's supposed to mean freshmen. But i can't find any other place where pikers used like that except in new york in the fight. Song okay. I promised myself i wouldn't do that. I line is terrible. The pikers on the hill. That i'll be back again The songs give my regards to davy. And he's saying goodbye to the administrator who kicked him out after he got caught drinking too much. I don't know what it has to do with playing sports but that's our fight song. Okay okay so. I was established a couple of things here. One is piker has had a lot of meanings and slang is really hard to tease out. So given those two things because we're gonna get a lot of people are gonna email or 'cause piker means somebody who plays a small beds at a gambling table. Yes we know but there are other pikers as well and and we're gonna talk about the other pikers so let's talk about this fight. Song was written in nineteen o five. It is to the tune of give my regards to broadway Written by george cohen for his nineteen four musical little johnny jones. Everyone give my regards to broadway. Remember me to herald square that tune right. Yep allah the pikers on that. I'll be back there. You go and so we a good thing that we have a date for that then we know which piker to go for. We can kind of look back in the old newspapers and in the slang reference works and figure out which piker was being used in ithaca new york which is where cornell university is located at the time to figure out which one is most likely. And i love that. You did your own fieldwork. You found what i would find. Which is the piker meaning freshman. Doesn't really work the big band on their website has an faq where they tried to puzzle out the song and explain everything. They've done a really good job. Except for the word piker they simply say it means freshman and i think they're wrong. I think piker this means what you said at somebody who is the opposite of grind. Which was another word at the time. Yup i found piker and grind in a newspaper in nineteen of five in association with cornell so the same year that the song was written and piker meant a poor student a shirker elisi student. The opposite of a grind grain is a studious student. One who does all the reading on time who who paces it out over the year and doesn't have to cram at the end of the year and so that hiking is probably related to a larger slang. Piker that was floating around the united states the time which referred to our shirker or just a person who is just not doing their bested in a little bit related to the poker. Piker someone who only puts up tiny bets when they should be betting where somebody who's reluctant to commit reluctant to give their all somebody who is unwilling to help other people. Somebody who unwilling to step out a piker also the time was a man who wouldn't splurge on a date. He might take her out for a hotdog instead of for dinner so so the song is telling all the pikers that is the the lazy students that Yeah we'll see you later. I he says goodbye to the administrators who kicked them out and then also the packers back and we'll have a drink when i come back bad influence right. Thank you guys so much. we're glad you call laura. I'm so glad you could help. I was so excited. When i saw this long and saw that word i was like i'm going to call grant and martha call. You're now talking here by by. If there's word you're curious about call us eight seven seven nine hundred nine nine six seven three or email us. The address is words it would radio dot. Org following up on our discussion about the phrase can't died in a cornfield. We heard from todd white in woodstock. Virginia who said my dad used to say to us can't never could won't never will. That's a good one. This is the stuff you say to kids. Say i can't do with daddy. It's too hard that's right a instead of try. Harder never could won't never will eight seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three. Hello you have a way with words. Hi this is kathy constable. I'm calling from ryan new york ryan. New york will welcome cathy. What can we do for you when i was living in central pennsylvania. I had the experience of going to someone's house and the husband asked me if i'd like a cup of coffee and his wife said oh. No the coffees. All i looked at her and i at him and then the son of these people he whispered and he said that means. It's all gone. What i found when i was in this area is that people would always use the term. Oh it's all they wouldn't say it's all gone. It's all done. It took me a while to get used to understand name what they meant and i just wondered where came from i talk to other people in rural areas of the country and they never heard of it so you were in central pennsylvania cathy. I was in central pennsylvania. A farming area were there a lot of pennsylvania dutch speakers in the area. It was not a selena dutch area. It's it was a lie. It's a a little north and west of that There were a lot of pennsylvania. Germans in that area. Well what you've heard. Despite the fact that they may not have been pennsylvania dutch speakers. Exactly where you were is an imprint of the pennsylvania. Dutch language the dutch meaning in this case a dialect of german not actually dutch dutch A calc ca l. q. u. e. from that dialect of german where the word all a. l. l. e. allah means Finished or gone and So it's borrowed directly from german into english and used exactly in english would be german and you can find it as far back as the eighteen fifties mainly in pennsylvania but also a little bit in indiana and ohio in the places where the pennsylvania dutch speakers settled even if people no longer speak the language there well. That explains a lot. Yeah it does. And we're we're grateful to you for the field report. Call us again some time. Thank you you broadened my knowledge by well we welcome your linguistic field reports and questions. Call us eight seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three or send your words. Wayward radio dot. Org hello you have a way with words. Money moves vanessa. And i am in just out milwaukee. Wisconsin I live between door county. Wisconsin in nashville tennessee. So we're just hit record actually. Oh you live between those. Yeah i do. I'm a key way And i split my time between nashville tennessee. And go county wisconsin. Okay we'll welcome to the show. What can they well. I have a boyfriend and a couple of cats. And i call my boyfriend and one cat in particular a wally fairly often and he questioned me one time. What wally meant. And i wasn't really able to explain it i could. I could tell him what my intimate was. But i couldn't really explain. Actually what the word meant where it came from. I have a bunch of reference works on Kiwi slaying and australian slang and different things. And i've i've done some digging on this word. I found it as far back as the nineteen eighties. But i wouldn't be surprised if it's older. But there's a firm meaning of it as silly dafter inept person but it's possible. He goes back as far as the nineteen twenties with the more general. Meaning of an unfashionable person. Although the evidence back to the nineteen twenties is scant. by unfashionable. person. I mean the kind of person who you know. Whereas they're kind of just ask retouched with how they look and you know. They're wearing the wrong clothes at the wrong time and the wrong jacket. The wrong season that sort of stuff and it's not just and new zealand. All season ustralia pretty much anywhere. Outside of north america in english speaking world You might hear it in south africa. Of course australia so forth not in canada not in the united states as far as the origin. There's three theories that the slang lexicographer john green has proposed that i kind of like one of them is that it's released to the british slang word for cucumber. Wally spelled but also w. a. l. l. y. and a wally Besides me cucumber perhaps means a green unskilled inexperienced person because somebody green if they're new at a job right and likely to make mistakes but there's also a scottish word. Wally drag meaning of runt or poorly grim person or somebody who's worth lists are slovenly dirty. That's less likely. Because there's already a wally in scots english which has the opposite. Meaning of what you're talking about. It means fine. Excellent strong great and then he's got a third theory which there's no evidence for but i'm gonna throw it out here. There's an italian naples dialect. Italian word blog neo g. u. a. l. means boy so. I don't know that sounds vaguely like wally. But really it's origin unknown like a lot of sling most lane. Just kind of pops up. People don't know. I i wanna save you. Living in wisconsin and national. You must have accent whiplash given that you speak with the kiwi kiwi accent and you live in two very distinct american dialect regions. Ideally definitely have probably picked up elements of both accents to americans here. I found very foreign. But i know when i go back to two new zealand. Everyone thinks i sound like which is not true. I'm my just a mass. That's the that's the fact that it's original and unique to you exactly what you call time and let us know what else you've come across these. These cultural collisions are super fascinating. Yeah i will have to think of another insult that i use affectionate her finding great. All right we do enjoy hearing about those cultural collisions whether international or regional in this country. So let us know your story. Eight seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three or send it to us an email. The address is words. Wayward radio dot. Org support for away with words comes some tom bin bags backpacks and plot face masks designed and made in seattle portable culture since nineteen seventy-two. Tom ben that's t. o. M. b. i. h. in dot com. Thanks to senior producer. Stephanie levine editor tim. Felton and production assistant. Elizabeth whistler messages. Subscribe to the podcast newsletter. And catch up on hundreds of past episodes at wayward radio dot org our toll. Free line is always open in the. Us and canada eight seven seven nine two nine nine six seven three or email us words. At wayward radio dot org with words is an independent production of wayward inc a nonprofit supported by listeners and organizations who are changing the way the world talks about language many thanks to wayward board member and our friend bruce rogo for his help and expertise. Thanks for listening. I'm grant barrett. And i'm martha barnette until next time. Goodbye bye bye.
#522 Home Alone?
"No, I you talked in the book, and you had a lovely section about. How our homes are in a way their own ecosystems a microcosm of the world. What do you mean? When you say that our homes are a microcosm of the world. Well, so if you think about a home, you have a bunch of conditions in your house that are like conditions outdoors. They may not seem that way from your scale. So, you know, as humans were were huge. And and so we imagine the refrigerator couldn't possibly be the habitat the from the perspective of bacteria or produce or even some little teeny arthropods the freezer is a whole world. Welcome to science for the people. I'm Bethany Brookshire science writer at science news and society for science and the public do you? Keep your house clean like really clean. Do you gently escort and spiders outside? Microwave, your sponges clean, your cats litterbox daily and changed the air filters on your H back. Do you think that this means your house is a haven safe from bold and evil bacterial films and spiders crawling your mouth when you sleep? Well, I hate to tell you this, but you're never home alone. And as our guest today would argue that's a very good thing. And and so it's a it's a kind of microcosm of Arctic world's in your oven is a microcosm of the hottest conditions in which we can imagine life living, and your salt shaker is a microcosm of really extreme salt places. Elsewhere in the world in your dishwasher is a microcosm of those places that are hot and then cold, and then really alkaline and than not alkaline. Line and then wet and dry. And and so in that way, your house contains all of these different biological worlds that we readily overlooked because we're sort of scanning the the the big things in fail to realize what we've created. I'm here today with broad done and applied ecologist North Carolina State university and author of the book never home alone from microbes to millipedes camel crickets in honeybees, the natural history of where we live. Well, I have to say that if your fridge anything like my fridge. I have no trouble believing that there's an ecosystem living in my fridge over fridges are eco-systems amid it's the whole in a way what we aim to do with something like a refrigerator is not to get rid of life, but is to control which she's win in which species blues over what time scales. Well, I mean, I need to clean my fridge. Things growing in there. That's okay. They're always growing there. It's which things that matter if they start to have little like if you have fun g they're growing hats in cooter mob, and then it's time to clean, probably great. I know what I'm doing after this. Now, your any college issed you've done really wide ranging work on bacteria and yeast and bugs and dogs. And it seems like every single Filo in a way, and this the thing that links these, you know, seemingly disparate organisms together is that these are about the ecology of people's homes. Why did you decide to focus on the ecology of people's homes? Well, so I started off as a rain forest ecologist since I worked in Bolivia and Costa Rica, Australia in Peru and. In a lot of the work that I did there was at the interface of rainforests, and and the daily lives of people who lived in ran for us. But but I focused on really I much as I was always staying with families. It was working farms. The everything I've been trained to do was to focus on the rarest most unusual things and sort of push humans as much out of the picture as I could. And that's how he college devilish, shrimp biologists trained. We're trained to be like Darwin to go far away in think about remote sort of. Remote things removed from daily life. And so when I got my faculty job at North Carolina State university. That's largely would have is still doing thinking about the general rules that govern tropical life. Why? There are some more species some places fewer and other places why they're more predator some places whether more parasite some places these sort of things that we meant might imagine pertain to life wherever we find it. But but I found myself when I got to North Carolina State working among colleagues who could do useful things. And so I'd be thinking about some obscure aunt, and they'd make more fish. I'd be thinking about some beetle that rides in an obscure aunt, and they would make more bread. And and so very quickly. It became apparent that that it will be it will be nice to have some more useful piece to what I was doing. But I couldn't imagine what that would be early in my career. But as. Started to work as a as an assistant professor I had students that started to do work right around campus rather than working in rainforests route used to work. They would work, you know, in Raleigh, North Carolina. And as they did they started to discover new species in people's backyards new phenomenon people's backyards, we had a seventeen year old student who found an ant species that had never ever been seen alive. Behind our biology building first one ever to see it alive. And so that started to convince me that well, maybe there were more basic discoveries to be made than I realized right where I was living. But it was still very basic work wasn't applied. It was just the beauty of the the collagen. Evolution of these organisms. And then slowly we started to creep toward people's doors. And we would give talks about the basic biology of backyard's back porches, and what I'd hoped in those moments was that people would say, ooh, it's so interesting. The ancient stories of these answer of these beetles, and what people would inevitably say at the end of talks was. What do I do? But the ants in my kitchen, how do I get this thing to stop growing in my refrigerator? And and what I heard when I started to do that work with was basically, you know, the it was sort of the ecologist version of hey, would you check out? My rash. Like a drug me nuts. And like, I don't wanna see your rash. I don't want to control your aunts in your kitchen. Like, I love the ants. I think they're beautiful and fascinating. But but what I came to realize was people were really saying was after your boring hour long talk. The only way this possibly relates to my daily life isn't thinking about how to control these ants. And so it was in that context that we started to actually move into houses and start to think both about the beautiful basic biology of these species and about what use we might make starting to understand what they are doing in your kitchen, and we still can't tell people out of control things, but we can tell people about how to live in their homes with no way unhappy. I was particularly struck by point you just made. But also by appointing that this was made you've made this point in your book several times that ecologist tend to ignore homes in cities, you know, they tend to focus on the wild forests of Costa. You know, and because to them as to all of us homes houses are not natural. They're kind of the opposite of natural. Why do you think we kind of feel that way? Why have we blotted out the idea of our homes is kind of natural places? Well, I think probably a bunch of things going on there. I mean one is that in for hundreds of years to explore has meant to go somewhere that's far away. And so I think that sense of the explorers still big that much of the science that we do that. You you go remote from where you live in order to do science. So I think that's part of it. I think another part is that wants tweet figure it out that some of the species in our house could kill us. Then we began to think that the main way we should interact with that life is is to try to control to try to get rid of it. And that meant that the scientists who studied the life in houses tended to be scientists whose main job was to understand how to kill things. And so the building next to my building is a building full of entomologists, and it's changing, but twenty years ago, most of the people in that building their job would have been to figure out on his kill specific kind of insect. The either lived in a former in a house, and so we kind of. We shifted what we studied in houses. And then we kept this old idea that to explore was to go far away in both of those things together meant that. We didn't leave anybody in the house to just sort of poke around and find fun stuff. And I wonder how much of that is also that for a long time, you know, for example, we talk about Darwin voyaging forth to discover things. But for a long time people didn't really realize kind of how much life was around us because we were limited to what we could actually see with our naked eyes. Will you know? And we can't see these these microbes that are coating every surface of our house unless the ones in our fridge get out of control on our week and a half old Chinese food. Not that I know anything about that personally. Anyway. That made me hungry just microwave, and it's fine. Anyway, you have a lovely segment in your book about von leeann hook, the great microscopy best and how he changed the view of what was living around us. And I wondered if you could talk about the contributions he made to kind of the ecosystem of our houses on how we understood that. Yeah. He he was really wonderful. I've written about him a law, and I still don't really understand him. What made him so different from everybody outs. But he he he was born in live this entire life in the town of Delft in the Netherlands that's mostly known for painter. So it's for MIR's town is to hoax town at the time that living heck was living. There would have been fifty relatively prominent painters in the town, and it was not not huge ten thousand or twenty thousand people at maximum in. He he started off as a as a drapery work with textiles. And then he got kind of a, you know, a well well-paying government job that gave him free time in at some point. He picked up a single lens microscopes didn't invented everybody always says, the invented microscopes, he didn't invent them. But he he picked one up and he started to use it to look around his house. Us. And as he did he started to see things that he hadn't seen before. And he would eventually write a letter to the Royal Society in London, basically asking, you know, hey, I found this cool stuff. Do you guys think it's neat to do think we could be like science pen pals, and it initially instead, you know, maybe, but eventually they did become science pen pals, and essentially the Royal Society would give him missions go forth and look at this. And and he began to explore his daily world in general. So, you know, they went to the fish market to them will canal outside of his house in Delft. But a lot of what he did was to his own house. And so he looked in salt. He looked in pepper water. He looked at his own sperm has neighbors sperm his own mouth is neighbors mouth. That's that's a really close neighbor yet times change. But but but so as he did he started to see not just things that were kind of new to science, but whole new kinds of life. And so he saw protests for the first time these. Single celled life forms with with with the nucleus, but we're moving around and behaving as much as if they had a mind and he loved the protests since so he would document many many species of these protests as he began to look around his daily life and then in pepper Lodder in just ordinary pepper. Put in water, he saw bacteria for the first time ever. And then he saw Paris toys for the first time ever, which are insects that lay their eggs in the bodies of other insects, and he would he would then go on to see many many many things for the first time ever in doing. So. Kind of describe around him an entire circus of life that no one had ever seen before in realistically during his entire life in for the next hundred fifty years. Nobody else saw firsthand either in people would people would repeat individual experiments that he did. But nobody did the whole thing. And so it was like he discovered a world that was just his his private microscopic world. Any loved it. You know, he he couldn't get enough of it. He died looking at it. And you know, if you would've lived another thirty years he would have kept looking at it. I'm totally sure. And he was really the forefather the four parent of of studying the life in houses. But when he died nobody took up where he left off. And so for a hundred hundred and fifty years, they were very very few studies of of microbes or even just small species in houses. Yeah. I was especially interested to find that at first people actually couldn't replicate his findings like they tried and they couldn't see what he saw. And this is kind of amusing to me because of course in research now if you can't replicate somebody's findings. Well, you know, that's that's like bad news. But in fact, they did end up replicating. Why couldn't people see what he saw at first? His microscope was a little bit different. He was using it in a very specific way the way he was using it the way he was. The way he combined the lens that he had with manipulation of light seemed to be different than other people were doing we're left to guess a little bit because we we don't have detailed description of exactly what he was doing. And how it was different from what the other scientists were doing. But I think the other thing is that by the time that he he was sending his drawings and letters to the Royal Society he'd been looking through a microscope much more than probably all but a teeny handful of other people in the world. And so we he he probably also had an ability in his mind to to interpolate sort of gaps in what he was seeing. And so, you know, maybe you saw two edges of something in the middle was blurry. But he'd seen enough that he could sort of piece together the middle. And so what he was showing. The Royal Society. And what he was describing were drawings. The no way he suggested depicted a moment. But really there were kind of collective montages of what he'd seen over many moments in into maybe in that way. It was actually kind of impossible to see exactly what he described because it wasn't a single view. But now, of course, you know, thanks to him, and thanks to many many other people over a couple hundred years, we now know we are surrounded by bacteria, and what really fascinated me was that some of this bacteria is from places I would never expect. So for example, there are bacteria that are found only in hot springs and in our hot water heaters in our houses. Can you talk about these bacteria? How did they get there? Because most people most people's hot water heaters have probably never been on vacation to Yellowstone. So how are they getting there? I mean to be totally honest. I have no idea. No, no, one has any idea. So these are bacteria that will when we used to culture bacteria thirty years ago, people would sort of do it using temperatures that were like temperatures at the scientists themselves with like, so basically, this is a nice temperature. Let's see what grows and and so as a result, we didn't see a lot of the bacteria that we're all around us because a lot of the species require temperatures that are higher or lower than what scientists thought were sort of normal growing conditions into took awhile for that reason to discover the bacteria growing in hot water heaters. In those same bacteria would ultimately be used as part of the tool that we now used to do every genetic test you ever thought out, you know, that if you wanna test who your parents are if you wanna test is that really the fish? I think it is. All of those genetic tests are done using an enzyme that actually comes from the same group of bacteria that are in hot water heaters in hot springs. And so it's super useful. But the the craziest thing to me about it is the they've now been three published studies in the entire world on these bacteria in water heaters, and all they've done for the most part so far is to that. They're common. We know nothing about what they're doing in water heaters. We know nothing about how the gift they're they're just they're into this to me is one of the amazing things about the life in houses is that we're so I mean, there's just so much to study that something super obvious in endearing like these hot water heater microbes. I think there's not a single student in the world studying today as far as I'm aware. Oh, that's kind of sad. You also I was wondering if you could kind of give us a brief rundown. You mentioned a little bit in the beginning that there are microbes in our ovens in our frigerator in our freezers. I mean, what kind of microbial species or even just broader families because I imagine species would take awhile what kind of microbes are kind of hanging in our houses. Mino- overall, we've found more than one hundred thousand kinds of just bacteria not to mention fungi in houses, and so lots and lots of kinds. The the more you seal up your house, the more that the species tend to be dominated by things that fall off us or rely on our food. And so one of my colleagues sampled the space station at using the same sort of approach we use to sample houses. And the space station is full of stuff that's fallen off the astronauts or the astronauts food, or that's actually just eating the space station and into that's kind of one extreme of what could live in your house. If you live in an apartment in Manhattan in windows, never opened in your scrub everything. That's what you get. It. Looks like a person kind of dissolved. And at the other extreme if you open your windows, if there's a lot of flow from inside outside if you have a dog. He starts to pull in a bunch of other kinds of microbes that are probably historically were very common around us and today are are more rare. And so whether or not you have a dog in your house explains forty percent of the variation. We see house to house microbes because they pull in so many unusual migrants. We don't otherwise seeing houses. If you open your window. You get all kinds of leaf associated things if you ferment Sourdot you get lactobacillus bacteria that become really really common if you're making beer yeast for out of the beer through your house. And so so they re they reflect how we live in each person's houses a little bit different. I have to say that you have a section on the international space station, and how it's kind of full of the microbes of astronauts. Kind of falling off and that actually kind of feels more gross to me, then like the water and soil and food bacteria in our own homes to know that astronauts are kind of floating surrounded by their own armpit microbes. I mean, I think in some ways it should seem gross in the sense that I think when when we imagine the future very often, we imagine a world that's a lot. Like the space station. We imagine that we've kind of sealed off life that our farms are far away somewhere that food comes to us and we live mostly indoors. And that's I mean, we're moving very quickly toward that future. And the what the space station tells us is the microbiologically, it's a problematic future. You know that if we live like that we won't get rid of the microbial life around us. They're even dust mites. In the space station. So it's not even just bacteria. In that will will favor a world that's really dominated by our own falling apart. And I think that probably that's not what we want for a variety of reasons. But one of them is that. If we want our immune systems to function reasonably not attack our own bodies and not cause her step allergies met as mine Crohn's disease inflammatory bowel and multiple sclerosis. There are a bunch of species of bacteria. We need to be exposed to in that space station model doesn't allow for that to happen. And so in some ways, which gross it should gross. You out the space station, but what should Chris you out is not that they're, you know, floating through their own falling apart. But instead they're failing to float through the kinds of species that we've floated through floated walk through. Sat on eaten for millions of millions of years. They're disconnected in a way that Soglo task and one of the parts of your book that actually brought home just how much we're kind of walking around in this kind of culture of bacteria in a way is is the bit that you wrote about biofilms coming out of our shower heads, and I stared at my shower head for a good five minutes after reading this part of your book. Can you tell me really quick what a biofilm is? Because I was a little a little boggled by this. Yeah. Imagine that you and your friends could get together there in you could poop in apartment. That's what biofilm is. So the bacteria get together across maybe that's just a gross analogy. But that's what I know. It is wonderful. It is wonderful in efforts. So they get together, and they build this apartment and protects them and in the it's different species working together, it's a pretty cool biological phenomenon. And it happens all over the place. And in the context of a shower head they build that apartment because it protects them from the flow of water. And so they live in that apartment in. It keeps them from being washed away when the shower had gets really dry. It keeps them a little bit. Moist. When the shower had gets really hot, it buffers temperature probably even a little bit in his allows them to persist. And so if you unscrew shower head in you seek gun can there, that's biofilm? I should've said that that the beginning. The biofilm is a fancy word for. Bacterial PU apartments is where I'm going. That's the definition. I'm keeping forever. What's we can stick with that? One. And so we we I've worked with no fear and other folks immersive Colorado in their thereabouts to sample shower heads around the world in in doing. So we see what we already knew which is that everybody shower at has a biofilm some are thicker some are thinner, but it's always there, and what differs from one shower head to the next which species are in that bio phone, and so that's what we were trying to figure out could we predict which species would be in that that little apartment. Well in most species of the bacteria both floating around in our daily lives and also probably making up the biofilms of our shower heads, a pretty harmless, but actually one of the bacteria that you were looking at in the shower head is actually can be harmful to some populations. Right. Yes. So this is a tricky bit means, so, you know, leaving hook from wonder in the life around him, and then when people figured out germ theory that some of these species could kill us the wonder all went away. And so I think it's important to maintain both the sentence of wonder and. In at the same time a sense of urgency that we need to understand the few species that live in our homes that can cause problems and just to think about the numbers for a second. If we found one hundred thousand species or so in houses maximum twenty of those species are regularly harmful to humans, and so the vast majority are either benign or actually beneficial and the same is true in your tap water. But there's a group of bacteria called non to Bricusse Mycobacterium that become apparently more comment in showerheads in particular, and in piping in general, and for people who are immuno-compromised in a few other subsets of the population, those bacteria can cause problems for for most people, even if they're they're they don't cause problems. But they're actually a lot of people who are immuno-compromised. So it's in that segment of the population is a not insignificant. Group. And and so one of the things we're trying to figure out what makes those not to purchase Mycobacterium comment. But even that question is really tricky because some of the entrepreneurial Mycobacterium are problematic sometimes and some of them appear to actually be beneficial. And we don't quite know enough yet to distinguish those two groups very readily. And so this is the trick with we know so little about the biological world. The every time they get close enough that we almost think we understand what's going on is a little bit more in a goes out of focus again. But what we found so far with the shower heads is that it looks like water systems that are more. Chlorinated tend to have more of the Nantou Bricusse, Mike bacteria, which is not to say, they're less healthy, but they're different. And what we think is happening is that the chlorination is actually killing a lot of the chlorine tolerant bacteria, but the non-turkish Mycobacterium are chlorine taller answer that they're hanging out in there doing fine. And so were inadvertently favoring them with our water systems. But the super tricky bit about that is. Once we screw up the aquifers from which our water is coming from whence. They become polluted either with toxins or with our own waste. We have to do our treatment. We don't have another choice. And so in some ways, the ideal water system is to have what Vienna has which is underground aquifers that haven't been screwed up yet that the water comes out of and doesn't need to be treated, and that seems like a pretty optimal solution. But it's only possible if we don't screw things up. I or if we don't move to places like Arizona that basically don't have water. And so it's gotta be pumped in from surface-water, regardless. So it's tricky now, rob we've been talking about the bacteria that seemed to coat every single aspect of our lives. You've led a lot of citizens science projects to learn about this where you have people swab their houses and learn about their results. How do people Jenner? Really react when they learn about what is hanging out in their homes. It's a mix. I would say that, you know, people who sign up to learn about their homes, they general generally have some general interest in. In the life that we might find. And so they're at least a little bit intrigued by. But I think it's very different in the two ends of the spectrum would be the shower head in Sourdot. And so we've done a lot of work figuring out what determined which microbes establish a sour dough starter. If you make you mix flour and water they start to bubble starter. You can use to make bread where this microbes come from. And so when we've told people about their sourdough starters. People are super excited because. There's a sense that this is something beautiful. It's kind of garden under known more about it. But they can appreciate the flavors of it. And so there's this really sort of happy response to it. So I know a lot of people who think of soured our services kind of their pets like they give them names, and like your feelings about them. Yeah. That's right. And so that's that's one one one end of the extreme that's sort of the best for us because it makes the work fun. Always mean, all this. Our emails are always fun. The opposite. Extreme would be the shower head. Work where be because it has this potential medical element. I think it's hard to talk about. And and the think about once, you know, what's living in your shower. Have what do you do about that? And one tricky part. There was the when we started the study, we didn't know if the biggest determinants of what lives near shower had would be things that people do in their homes or or things that happen with the water system. And if it was things that people are doing in their homes, we could have offered practical advice for what you doing your how to change which in your bio film, may what's new shower had. But it wasn't it mostly had to do with your water system. And and that sucks because we mean, the average person has no agency no control over what's happening with their water system. And so that's a really that's a much trickier conversation. And so I I would say that in those e mails run the gamut in people can be quite sad that learn about what's in their shower. Had I think sometimes and then most of the work we do is sort of in between those two. So what's the dust in your home? I would say some some of those things people don't like. And and but most of the time people are finding some wonder. In the in the end, we don't we can't escape the fact that we're surrounded by a life, and whenever we tried to it's to our own detriment. And so I think even when those conversations are hard. I'm glad to be having them. Yeah. You've mentioned booth in the book and also in this conversation for a long time. We've kind of had this adversarial relationship with the bacteria kind of in our homes, basically, we're like, okay? What is it? And how do we kill it? I wonder I wonder what this is. I wonder how I kill it. And as you point out in your book, these bacteria, not all of them are bad. And in fact, they can be necessary. And so I wondered if you could talk a little bit about the hygiene hypothesis, which I think probably listeners have maybe heard of. But may not necessarily know where it comes from. And what exactly it means? Yes. So there are a bunch of related hypotheses. The hygiene hypothesis is one of them the all generally relate to the idea on. That by sealing ourselves indoors and failing to be exposed to the kinds of bacteria and other species. We used to be exposed to for millions of years, we've screwed up our immune systems and the different hypotheses by diversity hypothesis, which I read about a fair amount versus the hygiene, hypothesis the difference too. The mechanisms by which failing to interact with those species make us sick. But, but they all sort of agree with the idea that something about the change in our exposures is indeed making us sick. And and they also agree with in the sense that they they all. They all more or less posit that our immune system in not being exposed to the species that used to be exposed to is kind of getting bored and being bored. It's attacking the thing that's immediate to us, which is our own bodies. And so if you look in regions where we've sealed ourselves in our houses more completely where we've gotten rid of more of the by diversity in our backyards, you see a consistent rise in asthma allergy encourages disease in MS over the last forty years, and this is true, for example on the border of Finland in Russia in a Karelya region, which before World War Two was all the same political region in the same people after the war. It was divided in two and the finish side sort of underwent this western trajectory of everybody moving indoors. And. Basically clearing, the biodiversity out from around the house, and the Russian side changed relatively little in that the postwar years in terms of how people live and then the Russian side. There's been no increase in allergy asthma since World War Two in on the Finnish side, there's been an increase in every decade since since at least nineteen sixty into. We're seeing versions of that again and again in around the world. And so I think it will take us another fifty years to understand exactly what's happening. But it seems very clear that if we fail to be exposed to a diversity of kinds of microbes of soil microbes of leaf microbe is of other things that it's it really messes up fences, and I was really interested to find out that I know I know it's kind of coming in vogue now the idea that, you know, micro biomass are incredibly important things to have an exposure to certain microbes is really superimpose. Thing. But I always thought of this is kind of being a new fad the microbiome fad. But apparently, it's really not some scientists had this idea that you needed to dose newborn babies with bacteria in the nineteen fifties. And I have to say that like my ethics meter kind of ding over the study. But it's absolutely fascinating. Can you talk a little bit about how these scientists tried to inoculate babies, and why they were trying to do this long before we really understood the value of our microphones to Henry shine vote in in a colleague working in the hospital in New York and in that hospital. They they started to see newborn babies that were getting staph infections. And they noticed that the newborn babies got the staff infection seem to have all been touched by the same nurse. But they also noticed that if the babies were touched in the first day of their life this indicate the infection. But if they were touched in a second day of their life, they didn't or there were less likely to an and so what they posited. Was that what was happening was that during that first day the babies that weren't yet infected with the bad staff? Microbes Steffl Arias, some bad strains, I think it was eighty eighty one eighty eighty one. The those babies were being colonized by other bacteria that we're fighting off the eighty eighty one and the story told told the book in some length, but but the what what then happens next is basically that they find a microbe that they think is a good one as a competitor. And they eventually start to inoculate newborn babies with that microbe to try to prevent that staph aureus eighty eighty one from colonizing, those babies and it worked and it spread hospital the hospital this approach, and it basically from those hospitals got rid of infections. Due to that strain of staph aureus and then a variety of things happened. But one of them was that meth Lucille and became cheap in easy to use as an antibiotic. And so rather than doing this gardening technique hospitals. Just started giving antibiotics. Like they were candy win infections turned up. And at that time. Everybody knew that was a bad plan people. Fleming knew it was a bad plan twenty years earlier people knew it was a bad plan because what was going to happen was that strains of staff would evolved that were resistant to the antibiotics, and then they would be able to do even better than they'd done before. And that's actually what we call Mersa now. Yeah. Not the cylinders ascent. Yep. That's mersa. And so I think that. There's a longer conversation to be had about the ethics of those of that work. But I think one of the things that's interesting is that if we consider the ethics of unoccupied eating newborns with a with a. Beneficial microbes we should also consider the ethics of giving newborns than have staph infections, and then biotic, and how do we think about those two things in the the relative costs and benefits of those two things? And I think it's way more complex at tackle to free them. We tend to think in I think in many ways, we seem to have chosen the wrong road in that moment when my croissant became cheap. As a result, we face lots of problems within abide persistence now yet, so one of the things I that really struck me about that story is these these doctors went hospital to hospital around the country with vials of this good staff to prevent bad staff. And I think I think the strain they chose was five to a something. And they just went around inoculating babies in the nineteen fifties. These some of these kids are alive like I'm sure they're a bunch of. These people are adults. Now, I wonder did they did was there any longitudinal follow up? Do we know how? Well, those patients are doing compared to people who didn't get that inoculation. Yeah. It's it's a great question. The there is launch to follow up. In the sixties seventy is have some of those patients, and it was shown that that many of those patients were able to keep the five to a on. But what happened over the next decades is as far as I know, it's unknown. But would be fascinating. Yeah. In manuka. There might be very different trajectories for those two groups. I mean, I think the the broader experiment we're doing right now that in many ways is more analogous than we'd like to think is the rise in C-section births. Because c section births. Those babies get a very different inoculate of both gut and skin microbes than vaginal birth babies. And so that's essentially an experimental gardening of microbes on two sets of babies gardening with very very different microbes. And there are some longitudinal studies now for for that comparison and people are also talking about doing few experiments smearing babies with like kind of positive microbiomes after C section. So it's kind of like that fad is kind of coming around again. Yeah. And you'd be hard pressed them to. I'll put it the other way. It's not uncommon to meet microbiologists who who've who've stored up feces in the event that they they have a C section to colonize their newborn. That's kind of awesome. And I want to meet those microbiologists. So I also have to say that story. There was a nurse. It was one particular nurse and she had this harmful staph infection. This eighty eighty one it was just like living harmlessly in her nose. And she didn't know, you know, it's not like she was nefarious going around. But of course, she was fired or at least transferred. I wonder what happened to her. Does anybody know I couldn't figure out what happened to her? I was able to. So there was there two, nurses. There is the nurse with the bad nose in the nurse with a good nose and the nurse with a good knows. She's the one that the five to Achim from and I was able to follow her story about a bit. And she can she continued to work as a nurse and her microbes, colonize babies all across America. Does she know about it? She's she's no longer alive. But she knew about it in those years. Yes. But I just I that poor nurse with the eighty eighty one. Can you imagine? 'cause you go into nursing because you love people, and you love babies and to know that you were infecting them with a bad micro. I mean that would've been really devastating. Yeah. Yeah. Story is I'm sorry. Let's turn this around. Now, if there's a big message to your book, it's that there is a benefit to biodiversity in our houses and our homes and not just for things like bacteria, but also for things like spiders and camel, crickets and roaches. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how to promote home bio-diversity. You know, what do you what do you do to like make sure you have a healthy home bio? Well, I mean, there are things that we know are beneficial on things that we can infer might be beneficial in are not harmful in in. So. You know, opening your windows to outdoor microbes in teeny tiny species in, you know, letting spiders be in your house making food that enrich your house with the living microbes of those foods cheeses and yogurts Kimchi's in Sourdot in all those sorts of things making sure do the things that keep us healthy in terms of public health. So washing your hands with soap and water. If you have a bacterial infection in doctor prescribes the antibiotic four that infection taking the antibiotic getting vaccinated, but not using pesticides herbicides anti-microbials willy nilly when there's not Makita need. I give a lot of talks in. I never go to a bathroom at university where the soap is not anti microbial soap. And we know that that that soap kill some of your good bacteria on. Your hands. It actually gives you a dollop of Sutton, soap, which can be packing genyk and normal old fashioned soap works super well at controlling pathogens in. So we made the switch to the super bad Steph. We made it so completely that we don't even notice we've made it. Into simple simple things like that. You know, a lot of it's about moderation. Which is you know, it's terrible mesh message moderation. But it goes on low. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you know, if we looked fifty years down the road, we may be able to figure out how to garden specific species that benefit us in our homes, and how to really shift toward a different mindset about the life in our homes, but we're we're still a long way from understanding how to do that. Yeah. Well, and so I think, you know, one of the comes then in that context is just don't kill the stuff that you don't need to kill that might benefit you that seems obvious. But it's not how we live. I was wondering you mentioned before an know. I know from a lot of your previous work, you work with a lot of citizen scientists and their responses kind of range from like being super thrilled to find out. What's in their sour dough to being really dismayed to finding out that their shower? Head is full of gunk. Do you think that any of your work has kind of changed any of their attitudes? Have you noticed any changes in your citizens? Scientists overtime as you work with them. Sweet. We're starting to study that now, and I wish we would have studied that earlier. When we when we did we did a lot of work. I'm bellybutton diversity in studying bacteria in belly buttons. We did a lot of that work with the idea that people were going home with a new sense of wonder about what lived on them in the years after I I wondered whether how often that was the case. And how often we instead triggered people to maniacally scrubbed themselves in a way that was to their own detriment. And so we've started to actually try to figure out what is it? Look like to. To engage people in a way that leads them to to more positive changes. So far the place. We most obviously see isn't the food context that people are really ready to embrace the idea that their food is alive that their own bodies contribute to their interviewed to their food that the dust in their house contributes to their food. And so a lot of our future focus is moving in that direction because it's it's easy to see how we gender positive change with things like the shower head, it's trickier. And I don't know that we have the answer. And we struggle with it to be on it. Well at someone who did actually contribute belly button. Swab to your study. You really Bethany? Yeah. I did. I thought it was awesome. I mean, I was I was super thrilled and excited to find out that there was the Factoria living in my belly button. So you've got at least one fan. Did you go home and do anything different? No. I just kinda liked knowing it. Yeah. That's okay. That's a that's a win for us. I'll take that. Well, this has been a wild somewhat unsettling an incredibly fun ride. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for talking to me. I really enjoyed it. If you would like to learn more about rob done and his book, never home alone from microbes to millipedes camel, crickets and honeybees the natural history of where we live. We've linked to more information about his work, and that very long titled book at science for the people dock fee. A while you're there subscribe to the show give us a follow on Twitter or Facebook, leave us a review telling us how weird it out. You are right now by your shower head that website also has a link to our patriotic page. And if you like what we do, please consider supporting us and keeping us going with a small monthly donation. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week on science for the people. Science for the people is listener supported you can find us on patriarch where you can support us with monthly donations in any amount. Your support keeps us afloat and able to keep making great new episodes. And we thank you for it. The show was produced by Rochelle Saunders and edited by Ryan Bromsgrove. We get help with special projects from kale Myers. Our theme song was written and recorded by facto pattern and its title is binary consequence. The show was hosted by Bethany Brookshire, and he has rea- Marion kill our and me Rachelle Saunders.
How the House You Live In Affects Who You Are & The Scientific Way To Lose Weight for the New Year
"Today on something, you should know. Tylenol is good for pain, and that includes emotional pain. I'll explain why. And how that works. Plus, there's a very common household pet that can infect you with a parasite, and if you've been infected you're personality profile changes your risk of car accident. Go the kicker is this stupor comment and sixty seventy percent of French people have been infected plus a clever way to make sure someone does not misinterpret your text or Email, and how do you keep losing weight? When you get stuck at your set point. Wait, the answer to change that set point by reducing inflammation in your brain, balancing your hormones, and that's done by focusing on the quality of what you eat. How you move. And how you think rather than the quantity of calories? Consumed all this today on something, you should know. -nology truth. Brought to you. Truth. You will certainly send any text about your supervisor to your supervisor. What's Janet's fangs? Did she lose? A that felt weed whacker. Sint wait. No, no, no, no, no truth. It's so easy to switch and save on car insurance at geiko dot com. Janet, I think my phone was hacked or something go fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more something you should know is sponsored by ADT ADT can design and install a smart home. Just for you backed by twenty four seven protection and customized for your lifestyle. For example, there doorman service, it's an ADT automation to unlock the door packages, friends or your kids. They're turned down service. It's an automation that arms your system. Lock your doors and turns down your lights and thermostat, and you can control everything with the ADT app or the sound of your voice. Visit ADT dot com slash smart. To learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home. Just for you. Somethingyoushouldknow fascinating. Intel the world's top experts and practical advice, you can use in your life today. Something he should now. Mike carruthers? I welcome. What if I told you that owning a cat can change your behavior? I know it doesn't that sound just the weirdest thing ever. But if you own a cat or you're thinking about getting a cat. You've gotta listen to the first interview in this episode of the podcast. I had never heard this before. But owning a cat can change chemically change something in your brain that alters your behavior. And you're gonna have to listen to find out how I up today. Tylenol works great on aches and pains. But did you know that Tylenol can also help with hurt feelings as well? It's true. According to research at the university of Florida, they tested a C, which is the active ingredient in Tylenol against placebo on people suffering loneliness emotional distress or hurt feelings, they took five hundred milligrams in the morning and five hundred again at night, and those who took the Tylenol felt much more upbeat than the people who took the placebo. The researchers say that's because a seat benefit and can reduce activities in regions of the brain that govern our emotions. And that is something you should know. Inside your home is a world of living creatures many of which are invisible, but these creatures they are your roommates, and they have a real impact on you. They're very different than the creatures that live in the outdoor environment. And since today, we spent a lot more time indoors than our ancestors. Did it's important to understand this fascinating environment. That is your home what these creatures are that are living there, and what affect they have on. You rob done is a biologist and professor in the department of biological sciences at North Carolina State university, and he's author of several books. His latest is never home alone from microbes to millipedes camel, crickets and honeybees the natural history of where we live, and he's here to tell you about all of this. I rob thanks for being here. Oh, it's great to be on the show. So you talk about. The fact that we're not alone in our homes that we are surrounded by visible and invisible creatures but explain the scope of that explain how big a deal this is and why it's important to discuss while so a few magin the breath, you just inhale there that the listeners just inhale that individual breath has about a thousand species in it and of those thousand species, you know, maybe one or two could do you harm probably not even that many few you absolutely depend on for your well being and most of them that we knew absolutely nothing about and so because we now spend twenty three twenty three and a half hours of the day indoors, most of those species were inhaling ver- sitting on that were ingesting those are indoor species, and so we're now in a situation where the by diversity to which were most exposes this indoor. Stuff this sort of wilderness of the daily life into. It's an intriguing moment in our history in which were exposed to this is wild nece that we don't know so much about and so what are the potential consequences in? How do we know? That's a bad thing. Well, so one of the consequences that we now know that to have an immune system that functions in a in a normal healthy way that our immune systems need to be exposed to diversity of kinds of microbes. And we're now seeing a whole suite of allergy and asthma and other chronic inflammatory diseases associated with the failure of kids to be exposed to those microbes. And so that's that's one of the consequences that were no longer getting the things in our environment. We used to have an as a result. We're starting to get sick in new ways, the other is that if you think about when you look at those hand sanitizers or other products, you might use to clean. Your home with the typically say is that killed ninety nine percent of germs and pesticides. Same sort of thing. Kills ninety nine percent of ants and other bugs with that leaves us with is the one percent, which tends to be the nastiest possible stuff. And so in the one hand Renault longer being exposed to the species that we need firm Yoon systems to work right on the other hand this stuff that were surrounding ourselves with tends to be species that will actually do us harm, so resistant, bacteria, resistant, cockroaches, resistant, bedbugs, and we've seen to have made some of the fact wrong choices and how we designer homes and how we live in them. And so what are we supposed to do about this? I mean, we are where we are. It depends where you live. But a lot of the things that we can do actually pretty simple, if you open your windows, you let a lot of these outdoor species into your house a lot of these species that are pretty beneficial. If you plant more kinds of plants in your backyard, and then you let your windows open, you're exposed to more of these beneficial sorts of microbes. And so so something like open your windows. It's really very simple and can be very helpful. And in fact, there was a recent study of a hospital in which scientists compared the bacteria species in rooms that had their windows open and rooms had the very best cleaning system that money can buy and there were fewer pathogens in the rooms had their windows open than in the rooms were using the very best air filtration system. And so some of the solutions are really simple like that other solutions are more like moderation. You know that? Us Open water wash your hands the way, we've always been taught you should get vaccinated. But but don't go around scrubbing all the surfaces in your home with anti microbial products. And so a lot of the solution is about moderation about, you know, just stepping back a little bit off the the pedal in terms of how much bio side, we're using and how much we're trying to kill the life around us part of living in a civilized western society, is that we wanna live in a clean environment. We want our homes to be clean. We wanna you know. That's why we call the pest guy when we get bugs in the house or we get rodents in the house. We want our homes to be clean. But maybe they're not as clean as we think. They are. Yes, we did a study a few years ago where we went out into fifty homes in Raleigh North Carolina where I spend part of the year, and and we went into those houses to try to find all of the kinds of insects in their relatives. And those houses that were there. And when we talk to our colleagues, but what we would find in houses. You know, there's a whole universities are funny thing and the whole building next to my building. It's just filled with people whose job it is to figure out how better to kill insects in your house. And so when I talked to those folks, they were sure that all we were gonna find would be German roaches, and bedbugs and some headlines, and that it was, you know, super obvious and the most boring thing ever, but what we instead found within those first fifty homes, I'm two thousand kinds of insects and their relatives in those houses. And it was totally didn't matter if people are using pesticides their houses were just as diverse in terms of which species that were in there, and that included all kinds of crazy stuff. Like, one of my favorites is the larval insect that it's entire lifestyle is it lives with termites, and then farts on the termites, and that stuns the termites, then then the this larvae eats termites, and we found that in a house. We find the world's smallest creek. In a bunch of houses most houses had four to ten species of spiders. Well, there's certainly a bit of a new factor there. I like to think that, you know, my house is clean, but apparently clean doesn't necessarily mean. And can't possibly mean that you get rid of everything we've swabbed thousands of houses, and we've never found a single surface and a house that didn't have bacteria or fund your insects or something on it. And so that's the first point that you're going to have a life with you. And we need that life and so get used to it embrace it. But but then given that we're gonna have life with us. How do we think about which of these species we most want with us? And so it turns out that spiders, actually, play really valuable role, and and houses, and are very very very very unlikely to actually bite people. And so if you have spiders in your house, leave them alone, let them do their good work of eating. Mosquitos flies. The other thing is that we know so little about these species that by just paying attention to them. We can often make totally new discoveries of the sort that I used to imagine we'd only made in rainforests, and faraway places that, you know, big new science can happen under your bed, really, for example to where do you live Mike in California? So we did a survey recently of people around the US, and and we asked people do you have camel crickets in your house and chemical gets are these crazy cave crickets that moved into houses early in the sort of American colonial experiment, and we've known they've been there for a long time. But nobody really studies. And so we asked to be people had them, and they're not supposed to be in California. We know based on this study of their biology for a bunch of years, and it turned out that in fact, some of these were being found in California. And and so I thought was that people have gotten it wrong that you know, they've looked in their seller crawlspace in their backyard. You know, shed, and they'd seen something else and thought it was one of these camera gets, but it turned out the unbeknownst scientists this giant Japanese species of camel, cricket and moved house to house across North America. And that scientists hadn't noticed I mean, everybody knew it was in their house because it's huge jumps that you out of the dark but assigned as we all thought somebody else knew what it was. And so, you know, here's this thumb-sized thing that nobody noticed which then really gave us the sense. What else are we missing in our midst every day, and we've gone onto to find more and more totally new things right in houses. I'm speaking with rob done. He is a biologist and professor at the department of biological sciences at North Carolina State university. And he's author of the book, never home alone. Somethingyoushouldknow is sponsored by ADT. I love the idea of a smart home that you can automate so many things that would otherwise take your time and attention. An ADT can design and install a smart home customized for your lifestyle. You can set up custom automations unique to your home to automatically do things. Like lock the doors and set the thermostat when you leave and close the garage door. And this I really like ADT automation can unlock your door for package deliveries or for friends or your kids and don't worry about installing and configuring your system. ADT will do it for you. ADT will set up your home with multiple smart home devices and security features like indoor and outdoor cameras locks lights and garage door control even video doorbells all controlled from the ADT app or the sound of your voice and backed by twenty four seven protection. Visit ADT dot com slash smart to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home, just for you, ADT dot com slash smart. So rob. Something. I've always wondered is do we see a big movement of population of a lot of these creatures because of human travel that certain bugs and things hide in a suitcase. And then at the other end of the trip come out and have babies and resurface there. Some do some don't house five you one example that they travel a lot in suitcases, and I'm points. And if you look at the the genetics of of house flies, they move so often that the the closest relative of the house flying your house might be a housefly in Mexico. You know, that they're they're spreading their genes are really big areas, and this has been happening for a long time. A lot of the species that we find in California are Raleigh are actually originally native to to Syria and Iraq, and they moved into houses when some of the very first houses were being built and traveled with us. Not I'm playing, but I'm Bo. Oats into some of this movements been going on for a long time. You've might you've got face mites on your head those travel with us wherever we go. And then there are other things that seem more restricted let there's a spider that's common in houses in eastern North America called this spitting spider and it spits ball of silk on its prey venomous silk. And that's seems not to have made it everywhere. It's interesting when you talk about spiders, and you said that, you know, most spiders in your house will do, you know harm in her probably beneficial to have in there. And yet people a lot of people just can't stand spiders, and even even people who put spiders outside, you know, like I've done this. You don't wanna kill the spider. So you put it outside while I remember talking to someone of on this podcast who said that's probably a death sentence because most spiders that are in your house have never been outside your house and have no idea how to survive outside and putting them outside. Is dum. Yeah. I mean, it's it's like dropping a New York City kid off in the middle of Yellowstone. But no advice. It's. Most of your house spiders can't do very well doors. Well, there there also seems to be this. You know, there's always this sense of, you know, the bigger the creature the more you wanna get rid of it. I mean, a house might might not be so bad a rat. Well, I can see that. And that's kinda gross. That's awesome modulated by culture. So we've decided that dogs are like an okay thing to welcome in cats or an okay thing, they welcome in in different cultures different species. And you know, it's not uncommon to to be in a house in the Amazon and for baby pig to be part of the household community. And inside the house in the Andes. It's, you know, Guinea pigs run around the house pretty often. And so part of what seems obvious is. Maybe not so obvious in a broader perspective. Yeah. That's interesting because you're right. I mean, some people would think well, even some people in our own culture. I would never have a dog. Because dogs are dirty, and they shed, and they, you know, it's kinda gross. But but other people love dogs and have ten of them. So, you know, who's to say, yeah. And we we do know from studies we've done on dogs and cats that when you have a dog or a cat that actually all kinds of consequences for which species are in your house in so dogs bring in a bunch of unusual microbes on their feet and their drool and there for cats bringing a pretty common protests that actually can get into your brain. And alter your brain chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a minute. Back to that one. We're not going to gloss over that. What do you do? You have cats, Mike. No, I don't. So there's a quite common parasite that was studied for years and years by basic biologists. And the medical practitioners never cared about. All and it initially gets ingested things. Eat a little bit of soil accidentally, and mice and rats are among those species. And so then it gets in the bloodstream in the mice and rats and other species, but it can only have sex and the cat. And so this is a weird thing for a parasite because how do you predictably enough get into a cat fulfil your wishes and dreams? And so what it does is it gets into the brains of the mice rats, and it actually makes them more risky and less fearful or even attracted to if you're a lover even attracted to the smell of cat p. Into increases the odds that they get eaten by a cat and and can pass on their genes. And so for years, this was this obscure thing that basic biologist was cool and nobody ever cared about. And then this crazy checks. Scientists euro Slough Pfleger started argue that he'd been infected by this parasite, and it had changed his behavior in initially. Nobody listened to him. And then it turned out that loan. Behold. Humans can also be infected by the same form of the parasite, and if you've been infected your personality profile changes your risk of car accidents goes up the kicker is the in some countries this parasite super common and sixty to seventy percent of French people have been infected. And so it can explain an entire country potentially in all the all because we're letting cats indoors in somewhere, another how do you know, if you're infected I dunno. Do you feel risky? I met is there a test. How do you can get tested? But no, we can't do anything about it. And and so have if you've been infected. I it's only really interesting to get the test. If you just wanna know for yourself for most people, you know, there aren't huge negative consequences apart from that whole personality changing thing. Apart from that. Apart for being an entirely different person. You're fine. Yeah. We're we're always changing. But, but I guess the the broader point would would be we think nothing of letting cat indoors do now. Yeah. But but each each one of these things we do each way we change our lifestyle has an effect them which species live with us. And we now have the tools to start to make some of those decisions consciously. And so I think it's a good moment that think about which species do we want with us given that, you know, every time we open a door seal a window or let a cat, and or don't let a cat in it impacts. What we're exposed to. Well, there's been a lot of talk in the last few years people have said in in reference to things like, asthma and allergies. And and who knows what else, you know, you need to let your kids get dirty and play outdoors in, you know, play in the mud, and and you know, let them eat some dirt once in a while. And it's okay, you don't have to be super clean. But it sounds like from what? You're saying, it's it's a little more complicated than that. So they're bunch of things like that that seem as though there they may be beneficial. And and they're not detrimental. And so let your kid play in the dirt. Let your kid, you know, work in the garden be exposed to plants be exposed to two dogs and cats, and it seems like most of the time. That's that's a if it's gonna have an effect most likely to be a beneficial effect. So what we're doing at the moment is basically saying, well, here's this whole wilderness of microbes. Let's hope that some of the stuff that you need is in there, and we'll give it to you. And so I think in the same way a lot of this stuff that we can do in our daily lives really relates to. We don't have xactly which of these species you need, but let's make sure we're exposed to enough of the wilderness that if the right ones out there that your kids are getting it at that. Your immune system is seeing it will. It's so interesting that there's this whole world of germs and microbes. And things you can't see as well as things like spiders and things you can see going on right under our noses. And you know, we contribute to it too. As you were pointing out we we let dogs and cats into our homes as our pets. But that that thing you said about cats, I've never heard that before that that cats owning a cat will alter your your personality, you know, people love their cats. Yeah. Right now, it's probably fair to say that microbial most of what we know about cats and houses that cats seem to have these pretty crazy effect some of which are negative and most of what we know about dogs is that to the extent that they have facts most of them so far seem positive. I'm not get a bunch of hate mail. I'll deal. You know, a lot of cat people will object to what you said. But I, but I think it's important people know that I mean, if a cat owning a cat can affect your personality like that. That's I think worth knowing my guest has been robbed done. He's a biologist writer and professor in the department of biological sciences at North Carolina State university, and he's author of the book never home alone from microbes to millipedes camel, crickets and honeybees the natural history of where we live. There's a link to his book in the show notes. Thanks, rob. Thank you very much. I really I really appreciate it. What a great show. Let's consider the secret life of the IMO nesting dole living most life in the dock inside the other nesting Dole's. She has plenty of time to think if Saturday he has no brain, however, when in most nesting dole, his gyco not only saves people money, but also has been providing great service over seventy five years. She thinks it's obvious. You should switch because. Yes switching. Geiko is a no brainer in a most nesting Dollond a lot in life. Healthier slimmer. You is in the cards for the new year, you're gonna find this really interesting. You see every year in January a lot of people become familiar with the term set point. Wait, what that is is when you decide to lose weight and begin whatever diet and exercise system, you choose and you begin losing weight you start to see pounds drop off maybe five ten pounds. And then it stops its appointed, which it's very hard to keep dropping weight. So what's going on here? How can this be is there really something to the concept of a set point weight? Or is it maybe that you're losing some of your determination and willpower, or is it something else entirely Jonathan Baylor is someone who's really looked into this. He authored a bestselling book a while back call but calorie myth and his new book is called the set. Point diet. He's also the founder of the weight loss and diabetes ity treatment company called Saint solution. And his work has gotten a lot of attention from the medical community. Hi, Jonathan welcome. Hey, thank you so much translates pleasure to be here. Yeah. So what is your set point? What does that? What does that mean? Is it a real thing? Explain it. It is definitely a real thing. And it something we've all felt on some level. You know for decades this idea, and this feeling inside where no matter how hard we try no matter. What diet we go on matter? What exercise routine we try that feeling that your body just wants to be at a certain weight? That's not you imagining things it's not you being crazy or lazy? That is a now scientifically established back. It's called your set point. Wait. So is your set point because that's where you've been most of your life. Or is there some formula to it? Or what there is something analogous to a formula? You could essentially say genetics. Plus. Brain inflammation, plus hormonal balance or lack thereof plus your gut microbiome equals your set point. And so how does that reconcile with the concept that we've all heard forever that if you burn more calories than you take in you should lose weight? So why would you stop losing weight? If you continue to do that, you wouldn't stop at your set point in that example, in that example, you could think of it a little bit like imagine that your body temperature set point for most people ninety eight point six degrees. Imagine if that was elevated because you had a fever, and then you put yourself into an ice bath so energy deprivation would cause your body temperature to drop, but it has not fixed the underlying cause of an elevated set point, therefore if you ever got out of the ice bath, you would likely have an even higher fever or a higher body temperature set point we see the same thing happened with starvation dieting. It does cause short term weight loss. But unfortunately, it causes an elevation in your body weight set point. And that's why yo yo dieting or more weight gain than loss happens in about ninety five point four percent of starvation diet cases. So what's the answer? The answer is to change that set point by reducing inflammation in your brain, balancing, your hormones and changing the distribution of various micro bio in your gut, and that's done by focusing on the quality of what you eat. How you move. And how you think rather than the quantity of calories consumed? And so when you say, the quality of the food, you eat, I soon that means, you know, more natural foods less junk food less sugar that kind of thing it's along those lines. But I want to be very careful here because quality can mean any number of things any number of people to some people that could mean I. Bought it at whole foods to some people. It could mean it's organic what we mean when we say, high quality are something very specific for scientifically proven factors of tidy. Or how filling the calorie is aggression. It's hormonal impact nutrition. How many essential nutrients it provides and efficiency or how readily your body can store it as fat satisfying unaggressive nutritious and inefficient calories are high quality calories, and they come from plants and animals, and they're also very affordable. And there's some that are very expensive. But it's not about organic or or or those types of characteristics. But isn't a lot of it about not just what you eat. But what you don't eat that is a big part of it. But what we found is that when you tell a human being what not to do that only increases the likelihood of doing it. It's a little bit like the don't think of a white bear experiment with some of your listeners may be familiar with. So we have found that telling people to focus on eating these foods, non starchy vegetables nutrient dense protein, wholefood fats and low fructose fruits, you will crowd out those insane set point elevating foods, and yet people have a great deal of trouble with this. I mean, you've laid out the recipe, and if people would just follow the recipe, they'll lose weight. Well, but the problem is it isn't that easy because following the recipe is hard. It is simple. But it is not easy. And there's a big difference between those two things, especially when the vast majority of the population spent forty plus years of their lives being told that if they would just stop being lazy and eat less and exercise more both of which actually elevate your set point. It's it can become very challenging. So it is it is simple. It is the scientific consensus is that this is simple. But that doesn't mean it's easy. Wait, how can eating less and exercising? More increase your weight. Starvation is not healthy. And we all know that eating less is a euphemism for starving yourself exercising. More is just the other side of that choline. Whether or not you consume six hundred fewer calories per day or jog off six hundred fewer calories per day. Your body is an energy deprived state. What would be much healthier is not to rob the body of energy, but to heal the body and then allow it to balance energy appropriately? Well, when when I think of reducing calories, I don't think of starvation as much as I think of well, maybe you cut out desserts, or maybe you don't have that second helping as opposed to, you know, eating watercress and a glass of water. I think that a lot of people may feel that way. Unfortunately, the individuals who suffer most are usually the individuals who are being told go. Oh on twelve hundred calorie diets, which is a starvation diet. Actually, the last starvation diet that was allowed in the medical community was during the World War, Two timeframe. And these starvation conditions that they put participants under to approximate war torn Europe was sixteen hundred calorie per day diets and that resulted in a forty percent drop in metabolism. And a seventy two percent increase in depression. And that's a sixteen hundred calorie diet, which is generous, according to most starvation dieting programs today, what you mentioned the the brain is well as as a element of this bequest and explain that how does that fit into this? We have been essentially program to believe that our bodies and brains are stupid and that unless we consciously count calories our bodies and brains what to be overweight or obese or diabetic. And that is simply false your brain has mechanisms in. In place, your venture media hype your lateral hypothalamus that are designed to count calories for you. But when those areas become inflamed through the wrong quality of nutrition, not overeating. Your body is unable to balance calories for you automatically. And this is not crazy talk. This is exactly how diabetes works. We all know that blood sugar should be automats balanced by your body. But when it loses that ability due to a disease, we call that diabetes. The same thing applies to obesity when your brain gut and hormones, lose the ability to automatically and helpfully balanced calories. In with calories out that is disease, the American Medical Association calls obesity. Well, understanding, you know, you've got a whole book that explains how to fix this. But but in a nutshell, what does this look like, you know, day-to-day what is breakfast, lunch and dinner? Look like what is my day? Look like if I do what you're talking about. The good news. Is that all of us have eaten this high-quality sane way on occasion, we just need to do more of it? And we need to do it consistently. So for example for breakfast. If you've ever eaten eggs. Eggs and vegetables that is an extremely high quality set point lowering breakfast 'cause you're getting your non starchy vegetables, you're getting nutritious protein. And you're getting some wonderful healthy fats from the eggs for lunch. If you've ever had stir fry which didn't have a lot of rice or noodles, but focused again, more on protein and vegetables that is a very sane lunch. If you've ever had a salad with salmon or chicken on top, that's a very sane lunch. And then in between, lunch and dinner. If you've ever snacked on nuts. That's a wonderful high-quality snack and then for dinner chances. Are you already eat in this high quality sane way? Just not all the time. Anytime you have vegetables on your plate as well. As nutritious proteins. You're on your way too high quality eating you just need to put so much of that on your plate that it crowds out all the process starches and sugars, and is it no sugar. No desert. No. No sugar in my coffee is it that strict or is it just less as better if about changing where you're getting that sweet flavor from so telling an individual to never eat sweets for the rest of their life. I think might be a something I wouldn't personally want to do. So I would never recommend. So the good news is that when you use whole food fats or nuts and seeds you can prepare cookies cakes pies. Things like that you're just using nut based flowers, and you're using natural non-caloric toxic sweeteners such as low Hongo or your three tall or stevia. So literally, there's nothing you can't eat you just need to change. How you make it? And then things like lasagna, you're just using eggplant sliced horizontally rather than noodles. There's literally no recipe on the planet that we cannot make high quality with some smart substitution 's are there things that people. Think are healthy that that aren't I'm thinking of like, maybe smoothies, aren't as healthy as people think they are any other food that they they're trying but they're just misinformed. The wrong type of smoothies are definitely set point allocating. So the smoothies that you would get from a national chain or even at your grocery store that contain more sugar than two cans of soda and some cases three cans of soda are definitely elevating your set point other things like whole grains can cause tremendous inflammation in the brain as well as despises in the gut and surprisingly the wrong form of exercise such as waking up very early in the morning, aka getting less sleep and then doing long duration cardiovascular exercise can wreak havoc on your hormones and elevate your set point. So what's what is better high quality, low duration exercise such as very slow? Slow and safe resistance training. I've talked to several other experts on this and one of the interesting things about exercise that I have found is that people use exercise to lose weight. But in fact, what exercise does is makes you hungrier and that that in fact can sabotage your weight loss goals the research. I've seen is definitely consistent with half of that statement, which is that exercise certain forms such as cardiovascular exercise can stimulate appetite and not only stimulate appetite but stimulate cravings for the exact type of insane. That went elevating foods that we don't want to eat such a sugar and starch high quality short duration high intensity resistance training has been shown in studies to do the exact opposite, which is to help to reregulate appetite. So I think it's important that we clarify what type of exercise we're talking about. Is this an all in plan? Or can you do some of it some of it and do okay and all of its better. But some of it still helps or you have to go all in. It is one hundred percent true that the more non starchy vegetables, the more nutrient dense protein, the more wholefood fats in the low fructose fruits that you eat in place of process starches and sweeteners, the happier, healthier and fitter you will be. So it is a continuum. You don't have to do everything that said what is unique about this book as we have developed after working with tens of thousands of people a twenty one day protocol, where if you want the fastest most therapeutic approach to this as possible because you've been suffering for decades, we can provide you with that as well. So address the issue because I can imagine people listening to you saying great another diet it's in conflict with other diets that say eat a lot of protein and don't eat a lot of vegetables. Why should we believe this guy? Just one quick point of clarification nutrient dense protein and non starchy vegetables, we'll be filling up the vast majority of your plate when you're eating this way. The other thing that's really important is that this high quality way of eating is compatible with any other, quote, unquote, diet out there and really any other way of eating with the exception of the standard American diet. When you do this do you reset your set point? Absolutely another way to think of it is you lower it. So to be very clear, we all have different body types are echo, more semes-. Oh, morphs and Endo more. There are you know, just like some people are tall. And some people are short our genetic do play a role here, but we can optimize our set point. We can take it to the lowest point that it can health fully be. And then what we will find is that our body will work to burn calories for us automatically as aggressively as. It is currently working to store them. And if that sounds too good to be true. I would just ask you to imagine. The naturally thin people. You know, who eat whatever they want don't really exercise and stay slim. How does that work? Well, their brain gotten hormones or in a different state, and we can make your brain got an hormones work more. Like, there's you've used a couple of terms several times in our conversation here that might need some more clarification high-density proteins, low fructose fruits, low starchy vegetables, not everybody knows what that means. How about some examples of all of those things? Non starchy vegetables are vegetables. You could eat raw. You don't have to eat them raw. But you could for example, potatoes and corn cannot be eating raw there starches. They're not non starchy vegetables next on the list are nutrient dense proteins, these are generally humanely raised animals or wild caught low mercury seafood, not always. But those are ideal as well as low sugar dairy foods such as a low sugar and low fat Greek yogurt or cottage cheese, and then from a whole food fan perspective primarily nuts and seeds and then from a low fructose fruit perspective, berries and citrus fruit, such as strawberries, blueberries blackberries oranges lemons, limes grapefruits, one about whole grains. I mean, we've heard forever that part of a healthy diet is whole grains, and people have been eating bread for ever. So what about grains grain is unfair? Not very satiated calorie for calorie it is terribly aggressive meaning it's spikes hormones like insulin. It's not nutrient dense when compared with vegetables or low fructose fruits, and it is very efficiently stored as fat on your body. So using those scientists criteria we wanna eat so many non starchy vegetables nutrient dense protein wholefood fats and low fructose routes that were two full for grain. And I think that's an issue for people as they think all these vegetables, I'm going to be hungry in an hour. The beautiful thing about this way of eating is these sane acronym. And that first criteria that I talked about tidy scientific research is clear that tidy the feeling of fullness comes from three things hormonal signals in the short term hormonal signals in the long term and the actual space taken up by food and your got by eating non starchy vegetables nutrients protein and whole food fats. You will one hundred percent optimize, your short-term and long-term tidy hormones as well as filling your stomach up and calorie-for-calorie studies show that there is no more satiated and satisfying way of eating then the high quality way were describing here. Does it get easier as you do this? Because if you're cutting out foods that you've been eating all your life, and maybe crave them. It would be nice to know that maybe those cravings will fade one of the things arguably the thing that makes high quality eating work, whereas low quantity eating does not is starving yourself. Never gets easier. It only gets harder. However, changing what you eat. Always. It's easier over time because our tastes change. According to what we eat. Some people may have experienced this. When they switched for example, from full fat milk to skim milk or from regular soda to diet soda. I'm not endorsing either one of those whose I'm just saying these are examples where people may have started to switch what they were eating the quality of what they were eating and they noticed that eventually, they're tastes followed. And if they tried the thing they ate in the past what used to be delicious has now. Oh, come become disgusting. And you'll find the same thing here. Well, you seem to have the science on your side. We typically don't do fad weight loss diets on this program because their weight loss diets, but this seems to have a lot of science behind it. And the other thing I like is that it's a sliding scale the more you do the better. But you don't have to do the whole thing to see results, I guess has been Jonathan Baylor. His book is the set point diet. He's also found her of the weight loss and diabetes treatment company called Saint solution. There's a link to his book in the show notes. Appreciate you being here. Thanks jonathan. Thank you so much. We've talked before about how written communication texts and emails can get you in trouble because the reader may not understand what's behind it. How you meant it what the nuance of what you're trying to say is. And they may take it the wrong way. Sarcasm is a great example of that sarcasm is very hard to convey in writing. It's more of a spoken thing. But now there is a way to be sarcastic in writing. And be pretty sure people get it how well there is something called the Winky face. A study in the quarterly journal of experimental psychology finds that this is a pretty reliable way to show your readers that you're being sarcastic. It is that emotive calm of a smiley face winking with one. I if you add that to texts and you're being sarcastic, people will get it. The researchers had people re tech. Sts Facebook posts and found overwhelmingly that the Winky emotive com. Made people think the comments were sarcastic and had the effect of dulling the impact of those comments making negative statements, more positive and positive statements sound more negative, and that is something you should know. We're on social media. And I invite you to join us on Facebook linked in and Twitter and follow us there where you will get additional content above and beyond. What you hear in the program? I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.
The Grape Pack
"Hi, I'm Joe and I met with the NCAA guys welcome to talk. In this episode we're celebrating North Carolina great month. We interviewed Dr Sarah Spayed, and Dr Mark Hoffman of North Carolina State University. Go back. They talked to us about growing grapes for I research and scientific approach. As you hear in our conversation, there's a lot to discuss and we only scratched the surface in this episode. the, wine mouths are also back in this episode this time they tell us about the complex flavor components of wine. This episode also marks another milestone for us. We received a sponsorship grant from the North Carolina wine and grape council to help fund future episodes of Cork. You can learn more about the council by going to their website NC wine dot org. So. Sit back or glass and listen. Right, so we're here today with Dr Sarah Spain. Dr Mark Hoffman Sarah Mark, welcomed. Talk. Thank you. Excellent. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself introduce yourself since Sarah let's start with you. I now retire from instant state I was. Inching culture specialist. site. For Ten years of fire that I was at Washington state. In a similar position, but on the wind side for twenty six, working with a lot of grapes. North Carolina native. From pender killing. Not where you think of maybe for a wine specialist. But we had much going great. Back Sixty. Seventy kind of got hooked on grapes from there. So I am the. Sarah's predecessor here at least fifty percent of my function at NC, state and I have my official title is small fruits extension specialist son Work with. The grape and wine industry North Carolina. Three years. I'm rick hopeful. Germany, which threatens may excellent and I live in the united. States now for about eight years was Florida California. Before that night my PhD in Germany at the universe guys. And University of mines in Grapes, and now I will cure for the lost now pretty much three years three years. Some twenty-five states. Wow author lineup. It's hard to believe. It's been that long already mark I. Mean I remember when? I came to the state and I'm like, okay, that's that's very cool and it's been three years. No it's. Very sore months of sitting. So. So Mark Sarah can you talk a little bit more about what? The extension. Service. Is Part of NC state and what that, how that helps farmers and such throughout the state. Well actually. Every county in the statement or Carolina has at least one intimate heat and usually many more and what their function. is to assist. Rowers in some cases homemaker. Economics. person. With. Questions. Ranging from. Marketing to production to whatever may be the issue. And in if you think of it as tiered Instant in the actually dropped the words service. So it's Operative extension. And not just it is cooperative. And Above that we at least in the horticulture would cocoa science department at area agents. Can Be further information into either agents or maybe some of larger growers. And then you have the specialist layer. Then of course, you get into administration. Above that but the extension. Is Part of the three legged stool that is art of Languid University. Research. Teaching extension. And it's I think of it as an equilateral. Triangle where? Five is. The other. In I think one of the things the use of extension as is adult education. We're working with. People who are. Typically adults as opposed to the. We used to think of as a typical. Here, usually. In the grape industry quite often they're there in a second career. War. Have Say thanks fallen in love with gripes like we. And retire and decide. What? Greg wine, but basically, it's a network. Before there was the Internet. Of Netting with obligations presentation and answering a lot of phone calls. Email Mark. So, Sarah said several layers to the extension system north? Carolina. On the level of the counties. As Sarah said, we have extension agents which are. Basically. The people who are right at the if you look at the front lines who are basically after boots on the ground, most of the time. On A and sometimes several county level. Most of the agents were all Asians are serving all horticulture crops in their colonies. But some agents are specialized small grape summit, suspicious more other crops. So we for example in yet can colony and and rooks county to agents, which very interested in two new agents which are interested in it. And and crepes. Henderson call you have an agent who's very interested. So you know and as a specialist which would be higher level. So we in the area agents and and do only country age colony oceans. We have several functions. One of one of the function is to assess the needs of the industry and translate that into extension products. that can be researched the can also be. Other fact sheets or guidelines to do how to tackle certain products problems. A second layer is. To Develop capacity by working with those together. Who are. Interested in grapes and teaching them basically one on one. To have them being able to to to enact growers better and basically help them with their problems, and then of course, we also connect directly with growers. with ballots. what almost two hundred wineries and more than four her grape growers in state. That's just for one person also. So that is why we have to develop capacity where we have to develop those products. an idol, a lot of capacity building. So we have we have teams age area agent teams of. An Age teams which which work both in the east part and in the west part the state. on CREPE issues so Area agents were still pretty. Had five was leaving right right. Their new thing which we have a couple of years and we didn't talk that much about the era agents. Really. We have three era agents in the state. They also do a really good job. the one in the western part as a his name's Brett money and he is he works a lot with new agents to train them on especially food crops like grapes or blueberries strawberries. Are. are a blackberry. So that's like one area fought for him and and he works a lot with new jobs yet and wicks colony and I do that too so. We're basically building the team there I would add is that whenever I would. PENCE GROWERS DID AROUND And they go around the local. They've seen you at a meeting off I want to go straight. And what I always ask them do is to include the agent in the discussion. And now, you would include maybe the area agents as well. particularly an email. If it's a quick question that one of US could unsure mark do this. Really, quick question that's not gonNA involve a lot. Sometimes, I would just answer it and move on rather than. Getting this huge email chain going I'd always copy. Yes. Oh so what we're doing now since the last, so usually what I try to do with the grape industries to have. An industry meeting. growers by makers and eight. County agents are president. I did it last year and I did it the year before the year because you're not doing it. But. That's something which group Wang Collins onto supports and and that helped us a lot to to start building like those little teams. which we then now we got the project. which came off those discussions for Muscovite grapes. To that we again with covert next year because we can't do it but but so there is some progress on this this desire. That's really good to hear because as as you were talking through that, I think whatever you can do to expand the network for more people to get out there and help mark. You mentioned it over nearly two hundred and two hundred wineries and over four hundred grape growers. That's just really impossible for a small number of people to to actually go out there and make sure they're spending time that they need to. So this network seems like it's a really great opportunity to build more capacity. I think. When I started Who else fix? And probably. The number of growers. Really important from are. We working we we do. We're working on on. T. building capacity food. For not just for trade was it's really basically all across the props. But grape actually crepes do do have leadership role there because no other crop you're that far we have actually those teams. And actually also. Konczal some throw Chris by getting money in developing projects. That is really great that the which is only happening to Crepeau North Carolina. At least. Okay that's that's that's good to know. So. Can. You talk a little bit about? What what it's like to have this job in. North, Carolina. What are the? What are the pluses minuses? During the long cal. Time. I can imagine it's very long state. It's true. which is. Hundred Miles on my car. Thousand seven in one week. We had that freeze. On Easter weekend. And I literally went from Murphy, Dimaggio. In that week hopefully, you weren't taking sixty four, the hallway. I don't even remember the roads with. Mark. So where do you want me to start with the positive? German. So you're doing. What I what? I need to do. Let's Let. Let's start with the positives and then we'll talk about the opportunities. So that's not the job. All right yeah. So The positives what I really like about this job of the so Multifaceted that I that I work with so many different people I really enjoy working with people. And I see a lot of opportunity and. And doing teams and building capacities that is. Something which I. Like to. And City Lot of opportunity delivers a lot of people who want to work with grapes and I also feel that some regions in North Carolina almost routes Must Carolina has their merit and growing grapes. So there's a lot of opportunity for the industries well. In the state so I feel. That is a very positive thing in as professors research professors, not in my extension rule, but as a researcher. I work a lot of in our departing collaborate a lot with NC state folks. That's. That has always been a positive experience so far. that. So that's also something and. Working with students is something which I didn't even know that the enjoy before I came here with enjoyable lot. So so I work a lot with my graduate students I'm. Getting now to Grad students in for next year, they both were grapes and So those are. I would say the most positive things about this job. I really liked the mix of being able to conduct research do go with my research into a direct which I like looks industry needs. And also being out in the field and keep in touch with. with the industry to understand what their needs are, and you know what the problems are. A cannot as certainly cannot solve every problem and they certainly, if I go to Vignette I, certainly cannot always help. That's just impossible for anyone to do. But As. Long as I know that I can do something I know who to connect the grow with our folks to us and how I can translate that into a research project which. Produces you know data, which we can use an a s to inform the growers as long as I can do that. That's that's very that's that's very thankfully it has a really positive experience. That's a really good way of thinking about it. So I know you've mentioned research a couple times. What are some of the areas of research that you're interested in when it comes to either small fruits or grapes? So. So we're looking at. We, we're looking at pathogens and diseases. The law also have a research grant funded which looks at Management of followed pathogens in wit and grapes at work with Hannah Brooke on. Pierce disease. And we're trying to get some funding that in next year as well. And he also looking on a long-term scale how can reduce costs and vineyard changing growing systems for example, obey by looking can reduce those first two years of establishment so that grow us to have like less investment. So that's not a long term research research program and sounds like a really cool goal because that would really open up the door to more people getting into it because. Growing grapes a very capital intensive process. It is. Yeah. So one of my students who come to the next year it's going to work on something. It's exciting to hear. So, what are some of the cons then? You're going to ask for cerebral the pros before we go into. We'll let let's air talking to second. You're you're in the hot seat now. So the cons is that sometimes or often. I can't handle it better right now in the first two years I felt I was put in a lot of different directions at the same time. Not. Just from the growers because I served summer crops, not just the grapes, not not just grape growers. but also from the expectations on the university level. And that I can handle that better now but still. For example today I, just give you an example today So have students at the moment. Give me a second home. It's fun to three three students and one just graduated. So he had four and all of them. Are Making posters and presentations for meeting, which is coming up and the deadline is tomorrow. So I have have to. Look through all of the polls and audit presentations at the same time, it is Colbert and we had to make the video for the new students coming in. So that's what I did before I got here. And then I have. Answered I think to emails from grows the same time ahead of. With other girl for about an hour. And I have to make my own talk. This is the set that is the Saturday. So, it sounds like you need to clone yourself so. I think that's the downside of this is a very exciting job and has a lot of opportunity. And also, but also stretched very thin as I do some types in. And for me the way I am. Is that I'm. Trying to help everybody, which is always a problem because I'm I'm stretching myself out to thin sometimes as well. So I tried to put that morning. On, learning that lesson, I'm not a deadly I'm learning at the moment. But That's definitely a negative thing that I think the expectations on this job. The administration has certain expectation on me did department has certain expectation on me. My students have expectations of me and the girl was exportations on me. And then. All overlap necessarily right. So and so that's a trump. And then the second call I would say is The amount of driving I. have. says. Just insane I mean. I the first two years they had fifty, fifty, thousand miles while. On on my car easy and and now the third year because I have only twenty five of five. So they don't it's going to be much more because I'm not driving that much anymore but. You know. At that is just you know. So that's basically there's a lot of time where you were sitting in the car which i. Doing dead time I can't pursue any research can't comment or any students. I don't help grower to because I'm in the car. So. They don't have Data something which I think we need. A solution to. Because with the growing industry, I cannot waste like ours. The street on time is just not possible. Yeah, and it does take a long time to get between. You know you're based out in the Raleigh area. So if you're going out to the valley or even further west, it can take quite a while to get out there. S Surrey community colleges to half hours from from where I am. I and. So that's five hours car if I if I go there for forty five minutes, talk assault. And I. I'm not sure what the solution that but I think there's a lot of education which we need to do over the next couple of years but it's it's continuing doing. This is not sustainable. Or, that's that's the cons. Here, so the pros definitely overweight the concert. Absolutely. I would say covert maybe teaching everyone a bit about what you online. Of having to spend your seat time in a car, and then mark is doing a lot of online workshops which. is not the same as seeing people but I think now that he's done that over the last couple years in his begun to know people, you can probably start. Wean back a bit on the amount of time. So I'm not saying so seeing grows and Grows is extremely. Important. In Seoul I again I think long term goal and. And Leave it like a at their. s still think that we're all learning is a pantry. It's you can do a lot of things. With the technology we have now still doesn't substance. Oh. Yeah. There's something about going out there to the vineyard probably in looking at something and seeing for with your is the cameras can only do so much for a video call. So I think. I think we're going to get there, but it's GonNa take some time, but we'll have to adjust for. Sure. For me the pros for the draw by had was a when I first came I only had. What we call bunch. Great. I didn't have musk with my assignment. and. So really all of my work with focus. Pretty much not completely. West of Raleigh. which is in as mark. said a Akon. Because I think Nevin is the closest. White. The closest. Punch grape vineyard. A of any large size. That I think the pros are the people I came at a different career stage than mark. And so I kind of spent twenty six years. Making my battles and came as a full rank professor. I was not going to go through tenure and promotion again after having. Had IT. At W. issue. And so. My focus was a little bit different because one of the things I faced when I I thought back to North Carolina. was that every time I went anywhere All here I was. Oh, well in-state. told us what we've been were grapes in North Carolina. And so I spent here. crapping yet. So that could comey. And not have to fight. That battle? For my what I did, I adapted the philosophy. Was Say I'm Never GonNa say you can't grow up to North Carolina. I can say it is very difficult to grow grapes in North Carolina and that you have to be on your game all of the time. And so I had a predominantly extension appointment with some research in at least by the time I. Retired. They that happened in Washington and at NC state is that my strength was in. On to some degree and But I also ended up. every other year in so. You just Kinda. After twenty six years. You know I didn't have to worry about ten year like mark. Making it through the rain. And so. I tried to work on working with growers in the extension agent. In the county I think they've all but. The overturned. All both. The time I arrive almost by the time mark. You're a few still left. But there's been a lot of turnover in, there's always new agents in hundred counties of North Carolina in. So that's the advantage of the area agents as long as we don't. Burn them over at the same pace. because. They can. You're closer to the newer agents in work with them a bit. But I could have held a training session for only agents. At almost every year and have had a good number of people in it. So the turnover is one of the challenges it's not a con, it's one of the challenge. The frustrations. Research in mark probably has the. US rain and Fear and Turkeys and everything else on the planet that loves to eat great suits in North Carolina, and I've had research plots by beer. Burke's. and. Everything. I follow. Up So so so this year, that's a good point i. didn't even think about that this year we had. A. Lot of frost damage in into an reacting valley also the western part of the state. The MALTON and that has basically devastated on my my research tried. So we're. We're going some we're going to get. Take Hermes and food armies will be we were not be able to take any meaningful use data. We gotta take Barry Way it's chemistry, but we not GonNa take any given snow win with. The data. So we kind of lost that year already because of the the frost them to. Had for me is the first time North Carolina that we try and so so the last two years for fight for us. So we have a big role, but all trump's. I can imagine the whether being an and also the animals being a major issue with research because you'd like to have tried to have controlled environment said, you never know if a is going to be hungry and come over or like mark you said there's going to be some major frost that comes through in and wipes out a lot of things so very difficult indeed. It'd be hard to do a yield trial women. For off your high crapload and lower crop weights in that lot but he Brought by. To maybe let's talk a little bit more about some of the things you just mentioned with the fruit way and then probably getting this wrong, the cropping and all that what are the typical things that you want to Research. In. Vineyard, and. Is there. Is there a specific research year that specific DNC state or you researching now across the state because there are so many growers out at least when I came? Bought him a single. Research Station. A growing area will bunch great. It's a little different from us. But for Bunch Great I, I worked out of. Read spill for a while at the station there and. If, you've ever want to work with I pierce. Location Where it's were you Plant. Lunch greats batted That's pretty much sued case So I I tried to identify. Locations mostly mostly growers. Who can work with? And I do my my research tried stare. because, for us. It is impossible to to maintain. That many tribes ourself. So that's always the biggest reason why we don't have the grapevines on research stations because it's a maintenance problem basically. S, you know they're very work intensive over the season and evening December even after you know so even the winter. Crew in everything. So we need. The manpower is basically something which most of all research the most researchers say. That's too much for us and to put in a let's say carpool trial. On the size that would. be meaningful. We talking about two acres of something and that's a lot. That's another grapes so. I, I had a CULTIVAR Trial Surrey. was a half Acre. Number variety right we. Identified the grow on putting hunting by next year in the valley was was a grower who who said he would take care of it and I, trust him so. That's yeah. So that's serie lost a lot of their acreage. So they have to this one clawed which they have, but there's no space to plant new plants. and. And and the way the blocks are are set up. It's hard to do some research and there if you WANNA do it in A. In A. Reputation trying to you know so. Yeah. So usually use like A. A randomized block design to do our grapefruits and that's very standard method. Replace Rent radically amount of margin space which should to to put Detroit and so. Yeah. So that's that's the way the wrong I go far for European Silang crepes Only defying growers, and then for the Muscovite World, I work with growers in the Muscovite a world, but we also have one research station. Close to winning. which has a substantial must dine population where we probably GONNA put in. Some people in. Way to see next year so. We were actually ray land on a project. OR A. Year. And it was the largest law of Cabinet Cross. Flying stay. Just one or the other problem finding A. Let's talk a little bit about you know your experience in all your research, some of the things that. You think are doing really well here in the state like what? What are the the grape varietals, the cultivars that are actually Thriving, and maybe what are some things that you wanna see US looking into more? Complicated. Sh. Franck is kind of realism. I know some that I probably would not recipe. For yield. Ceron in your. The mind? Because of our of yield at the moment may be marked in. With my sensory. Sense he research maybe. Shamba. Son and the way. Fear, in. Yeah. So I I think. Generally, there's a general thing you can say is that a hybrid hybrid? Perform generally there are some which don't, but generally perform better in our climate than what what the People Do General let's say that. onomic lay there more economically feasible. Depends with different if you go into like the. CULTIVAR such as caps off or. Or Riesling. Chardonnay, which is we have a lot of have substantial planting chardonnay and kept soft in the state. I would say that gets more to education and for because if you have a good vineyard manager who knows where to plant those which spot to plant and how to take care of those grapes, you can grow that here but. It is extremely difficult. The more you get into like tight clusters and thin skins and earn but breaking in all that that really makes it extremely difficult to grow to grow in an Oscar life. As a general what I see over my limited experience of US three years is that. Things like the dual team and saying they were very well if you go more west. Than the cameras in and other hybrids. Were were very rarely hear the cat frostburg. think that that is that is a that is doable in North Carolina. But everything. Again, you get no matter what you grow a European vine create. Some more forgiving and in some you have to be, you have to stay on top of things and then it really comes down to the manager a lots to the at. The thing I used to tell growers was that he was pronounced. No. Can't get her adoptive adopted I. didn't Chan was good. When there's no. I'm you know maybe somebody's trying it but We have never recommend. I wouldn't but we do have a few gross grow it successfully. But again that's It's a game right if you want he wanted it really depends where you at your knowledge what's your background is and what you? Okay. What's your occasion and the good billionth mentioned would know. Based on location what they can grow you know so that's basically that's that really is an In North Carolina. It's it's a very management intensive crop, which means the vignette managed mantras is really the key to to like. I used to use pepper scale as far as. Level of knowledge. The. Road of specific variety and and Peter Nawar was way beyond the five Chili Pepper. Was Off, it was a ghost. That's fun. So are there other certain rights that are out there? Maybe in some experimental plots that you think would be interesting to try a little bit more on a wide scale basis here in the state. I. So UC Davis released. Five. Here's this disease resistant cultivars, and that's the reason why we do have what we wanna put them because of trion. Next year. and. We are going to. Test, all five of Dulles. I have to say to once they're both early but breaking. So I'm not sure of the suitable here in north? Carolina, and then there's one early but ripped the cultivars well. But there's one RECOGNIZE A. Lar- beliefs and and that to me after what I see them as the biggest. The largest opportunity here in north. Carolina. Coast has news clusters and does not it's like midseason it doesn't break like. It's I. Think it has. It has a good I think that's probably the moderate, which which we would look into the most for your forgive for North Carolina. But yeah, that's the whole reason we do the. At Jesus Disease Resistant cultivars. Other side of Cultivar or variety. Educating the public. And markets. Inches the only probably the main reason we grow something. What's her name? Is it. It's familiar to the public. And to the people that want to make one. and. The same would be true with anyone who wants to growth in the war rather than. You know there are some tricks ranted. Cam Personas will get around Veggie. Or vegetal care tune the wind but. I mean. Really it's it's perception and what the demand by the consumer is in in in the instant of great instance break grower, the consumer is the winery. Now. A day off death I agree with that. But but I I think the pressure Disease Fisher he is so high. That there's a lot of pressure from the growing aspect. It really comes. Down to your market, not model if you. If you want to be seventy five percent or more north, Carolina Derek, few wineries in North Korea, which are hundred percent North Carolina. They only take north, Carolina grapes. Seventy five percent of the more you're going to have to stop thinking about using. The grapes which grow here you know. So that's basically where all the precious time from if market model doesn't look at if you say, you know what I take fifty percent, but then take. The juice. That which also has merit. But then you wouldn't have to worry that much about what can grow you what what you know. So that's really depends on Europe in the market molten off the extra operation. But for those who want to be, you know high percents. North Carolina grown. There is a big. Push towards other Kadyrov's because of systems. and. And and on the other side if you look at Muscat. That is a market Yup we can grow musk. But outside of the southeast in some areas some. Migration Areas The people that have moved from the south to other parts of the country or familiar with it. You know the nose goes up instantaneously. Thing they made think you say Muskat. But. That's also little. I have to impress an opportunity. Yes. I been personally ulta changes in the industry. they're a lot of wineries which. You know think about doing bowl for you both. And Musk's. Is the Muscovite Crop where you actually can make money with? So that's a big. That's a big thrive or for the industry and and the fresh market must industries. It's auditing grapes now all over the East Coast and. Other countries. So the degrade itself gets more known by customers. So, they have the day export grapes all the way up to kneeled state and they. Grow Grapes in South America so. So that that industries growing and I think with that degrade south would be little more known in the future. So and I feel that's if we talk North Carolina why we're going to have to talk mustard because our debt is absolutely lying that is one wine which grows your son's which is laid to for close distance since ever so so. To Talk. Too. Often Mustang gets a bad rap but I think there really are some excellent examples of must be nine wind and like you said. You you could planted in the ground and really kind of almost forget about it and it still does really well. So yeah, which is you know the muscular world. From from viticulturist ghetto perspective. So form of the personal goes into the looks at the grapes. The problems are very different from the most of them were on Sunday the. World because it's really hard to kill, the must've buck. Possible. We of the big issues is the. Lack of uniformity within the canopy of ripening the. I agree it's. Lack, of knowledge on how to manage to pay no SOS little about Muscat is compared to. Maybe different is probably the most research. Crop in the World I. Agree. I agree I would say I would say so yeah Yep. Among. Fruits. SEPARA- may be rid. Current Gooseberries. But the other. Done it's like automate gropes. North Carolina heavy has huge potential and I feel. That as you said, there must winds out there. There's the fresh industry is extremely growing. and and it can make money. We have a lot of small Mustang growers to have pick your own operations and they are successfully growing must so. The that's kind of like the tasting room. Were Winery Yup. Your own. Because there's nobody in between. Right. Now. So Sarah you had mentioned that you know we really know very little like research by us about Muscat and mark. You're kind of tagging along with that. What are some areas of of research that you would like to see people getting into with Muscat grapes. Everyone. I mean seriously the work I actually gave a extension talk on this down it through for Duke was for that area. and. I had just inherited Muscat I. Had No. A research trials had grown up with forty acres. and. The premise for. The DUPLIN was after was they wanted to improve the quality and you know I'm sitting back and that's what I spent. My career in Washington doing was trying raise the level of quality ongoing I got up and I said Well, the Spanish short top because we don't really know anything about. One of the issues is that. We're using four hundred pounds of nitrogen for. Acre. Grow, Musket on. Based on. Work that was done in the fifty. Was the primary criteria. War. Growing anything. And the same was true. Or Vociferous Grapes at least in the US because in California, almost all the rootstock they selected or based on yield. Otherwise they wouldn't have probably pick the extra one which was -ceptable. More. Susceptible. To Philoxenia Sarah. And in. So the focus has changed over the past. Seventy years or more the quality. And you know, we need to bring maybe fertilizer rates down. You need to learn how to manage canopies. How to to pre Muscat, on the other than looking like a porcupine. Or heads. Off, Berkeley polling had done some work on that. But there's plenty of room for Mar.. Park to work. Having to be such butch. Yeah. even. fruiting habit why do they keep moving all summer? You know for more basic study. There's plenty of questions there are plenty of questions. I concur with that. There's some dirk questions about coordination as well. John, answer to Moscow dying and then there's A big problem is really especially with so we have therapy I believe one, two, three, four, big muscular breeding programs. And they released a lot of new county. We have a lot of seedless conscious now which are coming on some of them are already. Already. Already they're planted in North Carolina. And they have very different growing habits than than other musk dines and and if you talk to growers and s me as an extension specialist, I see that there are difference between even county whereas like tyrod triumphs and supreme supreme is not not A. Central of superior female but the Tara Self fertile but even day show differences and. How many fruit date usually set big clusters are when they bloom when they start having their main fruit and all of those those differences which we know we know in. Every single clone over Kennedy. How how, how to manage that and Muscovite and sweet? We have like one fits all approach. Physically, and that is the problem and and most of the research is done in Carlos, which is a beast of Mustard I. Carlos is a completely different beast. If you see condos mind, you don't need to know anything about grapes if you see a Carlos Mine and then you go and see a Tarot triumphs. Those are two different plants. There's no question about that. They grow differently they look differently their. Way Less vigorous than collars would be so so and we have like one. Good grow have really good Muslim that grows in the state. And they know how to handle those difficulty bars because they have the experience to do it. but we do not have the. Knowledge. Base the base of. So where we start with our research, we got we got a grand funded. We put the research twice this year Moskowitz. Where we start? Buckholtz. counts. How many how we prune those things you know seriously. That's the first question I have to ask then would some of those new cultivars? There's one collectible, which is a which is a ever berry grape to giant never saw my life before, but it just continues blooming. And and And how do we know how we? How did we manage this crooned this Saudi? Shut down one hundred shutdown bloom. At the end of the season. So those are all questions which we we don't have an answer to that but. And one other big weakness for Muscat is actively. One Red Grape CULTIVAR for winemakers announced. Mobile to. You know and if you look at an industry If it were to develop. Suddenly some weakness. say overtime developed. A susceptibility to something that ends to happen when you plant large blocks. Of One CULTIVAR one stacey. And to get more disease or pest problems. Because all of a sudden. Nothing else here. The past in. Maybe adapt. For, come, in with. True along those lines one unappropriated musk's which I on long term stay which I see is. That because it's such, a traditional crop people propagated. In their in their backyard. Wishes the traditional way to do it and a lot of do that too. And and the the problem is that would that practice you introduce Z's in your populations over time explorer the exception that for most of the of the new cut was also leaving to do that. But but you do introduce a law of these into your into your system, and although it must've very disease resistant, they viruses which we know. Prevalent and mustard CI-, which could propagate like this in your populations over time. So that is a practice which I feel it's that's GonNa Educational Point of few to get people to the point where they. Start. Purchasing. Tissue connoisseur cleaned up plants from nurseries rather than propagating their own plants, which is of course cheaper. But that way if if it doesn't go through Tissue Kosh, rent virus cleanup every once why you always have to risk that you will transmit south through your propagation material. So that's There's a long term for the industry for on the long-term scale does something which which can be which needs to be needs to be dealt with all. The mystery for watering. Different? Plant. Nursery A, lot of growers at least when I first got here would. Would call in March in WanNa know where they can buy. XYZ variety. Put in the ground as soon as they came. And Those are. ULTA vars or varieties on on whatever stockins leftover. Or they may not be virus tested plants. Because not all areas or worried about some things other interesting. So I know you had mentioned nurseries and that kind of got me thinking Arthur, any nurseries that are really committed to. Propagating Muscat Grapes or do we have nurseries here in the state I know there are some up in New York out in California obviously. But do we have any of that type of facility here in the state? So there are two nurseries I'm aware of they are both Georgia Day propagates Muscovites. I. Saw, my dad is will propagate. did not Marion doable. In late teen early July who? Heading. And we did it in a burlap. Propagation now with. On Ryan stays cool off. X The that sounds like torture dead of summer. I guess this is a good time for us to take a break when we come back. We'll talk about maybe just the basics of growing agreed. It's time again for wine class with the Line Mouths Jesse and Jessica welcome back. It'd be here. So what are we talking about today? Today? We're GONNA be talking about flavor. Always. One of the most important pieces of line. I. Think Right? Yeah. Absolutely. So it's helpful to think about flavors in three categories relates a primary flavors, secondary tertiary, and these are wear kind of the Labor happens in the process of winemaking too. So it kind of chronologically goes in order of the line as well. Yes. and I wanted to add to research shows that up to eighty percent of flavors we'd taste actually come from what we smell. So in thinking about flavors really think about. What you're smelling actually in in the line you're drinking. And you were saying that a lot of the way the wind is made imparts or changes. The way that the flavors Kinda come through absolutely great more we can start with primary. So primary. Flavors are the flavors of the Great. So those are going to be more kind of like your fruit flavors maybe some floral, maybe a little bit of spice but it just kind of think of it as like. What's the Great GonNa Smell or taste, and of course, you can separate that in two different kinds of fruit your red black tree fruits citrus. You could her the break down into those categories. That's probably above and beyond this. Discussion, we're going to keep it a little high level, your primary flavors, what's inherent to degrade really yes, and then we moved a secondary says secondary is kind of the flavor she get from fermentation. So you know as the grapes are going through fermentation. Chemical changes are happening and so you're GONNA get different AROMAS and flavors through that process too. So that's kind of where you can pick up some different maybe even like vegetative or. Spicy. Your players can still develop and change a little bit, but it's just an added layer of more flavors that you can get. So when people like drink wine and one of the common. Ways to describe a wine would be saying like it's very complex. By that is just kind of like there's a bunch of layer flavor. So there's a lot happening here and I'm not gonNA, unpack it all but. I do have to say when when writing up some of our, you know wind postings I guilty of saying the complex wine and it's just like I can't put my finger on it or my tongue on it, but it's there's something there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times it's just there's a bunch of layers of labor and you can kind of pick out there's different like you can get great flavors you can get fermentation flavors, you can get different levels. So talk to US little bit more about the fermentation flavors. What might you expect from? Those says your fruit flavors develop some. You can also pick up some floral flavors. From the actual niece. Champagne any like maller lactic when it goes through the process of changing the acid, you can get some more creamy kind of flavors to without we all know Jesse loves her mouth. Like Okinawa that? It's Like one of those really geeky wine terms that are really really awesome. It's so good. Yeah. I've no I didn't mean to derail. You've. Yes. You coming from the winemaking process. And then lastly, we have flavors which comes from oak aging. So that may not be all winds, but if you're a red wine. Has Been. Okay. Jr. Then you're adding another layer of flavor. So that's where you get your. Would Carmel nutty. Vanilla. Yeah. Spaces and I guess we should add hopefully everyone knows that you're not actually tasting like vanilla and toast and all that you know it's it's just inherent to the wind making process. But you know there's always person that needs to hear it. No no shame. No judgment Those are not added in there from the. Grape and winemaking process. And that's kind of what's fun about all of this part is that you're like you said, you're not actually tasting the vanilla because most cases they're not adding vanilla, but it's really just the way that they're doing it the way that they're making the line or the grapes in the natural processes that. Emulator or replicate that vanilla flavor right and the chemical compounds in how your brain is interpreting that. And you know all of that changes, you can train yourself to be a better taster by smelling and tasting lots of different things training your brain to identify different smells you know and changes throughout the day it changes throughout your life. So I'm pregnant right now and I've found that certain smells like I'm a better smeller. Pin My non pregnant life which I can't be drinking wine right now like. It's helped me identify that I really do like the stupidity and foods and drinks, and if I'm missing that in foods I don't know I've been able to identify that. Year. Being. Pregnant. But it just it just shows as a personal example how your ability to taste identify those flavors and smells changes throughout your life and. Like, saying even throughout the day. Yeah and it's a process. So if you taste of wine and all you can pick on at first is citrus. That's fine. Go, you know you may be able to pick up is it limit or is it orange? You know and it just like each level can get deeper and deeper and deeper you know is it apple or is it a cooked? Right it really does take practice. So yeah. You got to. Take. Notes as well. Right and there's a very standard is gonNA list checklist. You can walk yourself through that will really help pinpoint those flavors or help you kind of narrow down at least and then the great thing about it is there it's such a personal process there's really no wrong answers. Probably is. It's very linked to your experiences in your. Own personal profile within each category like say it kind of smells like plaque group You know you may get blackberry I may get blueberry. Those are very similar but. You know if A. A red wine is probably not going to be limiting high now. And if it is, then there might be a felt their say. So do you have a flavor that you tend to gravitate more toward? So I actually? Like. That Green Pepper Innis that you are green pepper flavor you get from like a cab. Sav. Or kept Franck. You know in that family that one's can offend for me identify because once you smell it in year like Oh. Yeah. That's what that is. You can't smell it and I. I don't know awhile to get that smell but once you get it and I am a big Fan of New Zealand's seventy one block. So I love that kind of. Grassy. Flavor. In white wine I think it's a nice day like in the little unexpected. Yeah. Back to that smell, it's just such an important part of drinking the wine. It's why you devote to Zozo for us is to. Swirling SNIFFEN and Sniffen again. So it's just so. That's why I get. So angry at my husband when he drinks wine like drinks beer. Enjoy and take your time, and we're not super tasters by any means it's all a journey and part of it is just teasing lots of wines and different things and and. Working through that process and trying to get better identifying what your tasty and I think a big part of it is just thinking about it like a lot of times I feel like we eat and drink and don't think about what we're doing. So with wine, it's important to. Actually try to think about what you're smelling and tasting. Like when you first get a class that's like fresh from the bottle and then. You get a second glass later where it's had time to. Open up a little bit in the flavors and the smell have changed and that is pretty cool. Becomes much more of an experience rather than. A liquid you're exactly. well, I have a question for you guys. What's the weirdest slavery detected in the warning? Or. Most surprising. Unusual Taste that a friend of ours did. But. Yeah. That's not something I would wanNA taste. Not, really a Fan Collard Greens. For. I think maybe. The. Most surprising for me. And it's not necessarily like an oh my gosh wasn't expecting that, but it's when they're use either different types of oak or newer oak, and then it just like is like really really present especially like an young wine too. So like you either get like that blast of like a toasted coconut or really like warming and Bourbon Vanilla. Those I find pleasantly surprising for for the most part and after the point you brought up now that they're making wine whiskey barrels few there's another layer of yeezy yet. Whiskey. Flavors in your wine just from the big. How do you? How do you feel about those? Do you think they're just a trend that's going to? Go out soon or do you think they'll be here long term here to stay I think it fits some people's flavor profiles that they're looking for. I'm not a whiskey drinker. That's not something I go for. they're fun to tastes great and I. Think it's a crazy nights partnership between the distilleries and wineries. I. Find them hard to pair sometimes with food because we're usually always drinking wine with our food and it's like, okay what am I gonNa pair this but we recently had some pizza and a I, guess it was A. Brandy Brandy barrel. Cam Franck and chambers and blend, and then actually went really well with the pizza. So. That was fun. Yeah. Those you almost need like in a High Ball Cup by the. Very true. Very true. Jesse thank you so much for going over all the different flavors of flavor. We definitely look forward to experiencing more of those in our glass. Thanks, guys. You can find out more information about the mounts going to their website wine mouths dot com were on facebook and instagram at wine mouths. That's W. I N. E. M. O. U. T. H.. And now back to the job. Right. So we're back with Sarah and mark. So maybe let's take a step back for a second and just talk about kind of the basics of. What growing grape is like either for wine or fresh market either must get differ obviously it's very different for that. So maybe let's talk about a Muscovite because that's what somebody can probably grove fairly easily in their backyard they wanted to. have at girl. That makes sense. Okay. It's. I've had questions. Why doesn't my grapevine MARK PROBABLY GETS EVERY MEAL Why don't I have any grace? And I ask them, where did you get divine in? Some way some of them will go well. A neighbor had this fine that I really liked in there were all these little seedlings growing underneath. and. I just took some. Or germinated some. Just grow from seed. And in one case, I actually looked at one person who had taken migrate Plas. I've thought an off about flower morphology what a boy, how to tell a boy and a girl apart. On Grapevine I looked at him and I went -gratulations. Its support. So you don't get any great that's about as basically. The home home grower. Really I. Mean you can train great finding any possible day. So I think the basics. I would. So if you WANNA. Okay. Let's back up. So if you want to a lot of people who I know have like this old Mustang craved, they wanNA destroy at grade I in in a different. Place or they want to get it for one house to other. So, what you can do, if you really like the Crepe, that is your great to keep it, and you can propagated take cuttings propagated than take those cuttings but that's a process which takes at least in year. So you'RE GONNA have to plan a little bit ahead. What you can do is take the fruit or you can but that's not that that's a very that's a game which I wouldn't play. So you can't take the food germinate seats, but that can get you everything. But but. Everything yeah. It will get. Exactly. And so that's something I would. So if you want to keep that why and you want to move it, you need to take cuttings and propagate those cuttings because then you can make sure that the same wine you had before. Okay. What you can do is if it's like a lion, just dig it out and put into the truck and put it somewhere else back into the ground is most likely going to fail. If you do that, you can't do that with winds. But I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend it to do with like a fifty year old must. And one thing you could do with Musket. Is the time of year that you want to do it, and if you know what in far enough in advance that actually just gig. A hole. And take one of the longer shoots. And put it down the hall and cover. The middle of that shoot up with soil. And leave it attached to the parent vine. Because going to get nutrients from the parent vine. Help the help that new shoot grow and it will route. You probably have to water. But Yeah Yeah. Interesting Yeah Yeah. That's that's that's what he can do. It must the nines and if you WANNA plant a new plant growth of new plenty of Pasta with highly suggest to get your. Winds from nursery. And not from your neighbor. and. Invest their lot that expensive there ten, ten, twelve dollars apiece if you. If you grow like for five miles that something even hundred bucks. If you grow grapes than you can invest one hundred since that's all I see. Basically. and. That would that would definitely make an then also, if you WANNA make wine tried to get county, which has that thick skin. It's easier to make. Those, and if you like a car or older or do we know minority or something. And if you WANNA make if you want to have it more to eat fresh or some really good fresh mark out there. I would try to one of those because we're gonNA joy grapes much more than if you plan to call and try to fresh. So that is basically by advice on musk deans and. For bunch of grapes. If you WANNA do that try to choose hybrid own Navia cap from but I would rather go with a chat. Chan. Persson is is relatively easy to grow really. So that's. Something which I would do. Such a concord tied. Good. Variety out of the University of Arkansas, and they also call it southern Concord. Okay. Lose University of Arkansas has few wine crepes also which I'm not familiar with simple. They pulled out some some. Theory. And they have some some other fresh markets judo omarosa something which also Other new ones. Already. Who Hope in I don't know the quality or how they perform here but. They have a little thicker skin. They're supposed to be seedless that every now, and then you will get a seed. In a good year for pollination. Might. Get. And then. The basic for every grape nomadic was a bunch three or European style wine create or hybrid or a must've nine. Belt. whether the American You want to grow the first two years to do not WanNa trump that you don't want to. Have developed a root system and a trunk you on the train the way you want, you want to have it, and then you should not harvest grapes. That's not generally. You should take any any grapes. Off Mary early in the floors know-how, how yeah yeah. Plant them in the middle of the mall. Even at the edge of the long where they're gonNA. Get. It if you have an irrigation system or your fertilizing your yard. Don't want breaks on their way. Fertilizer or the water because. Okay. No. That's very basic advice I mean that's something as whether you're. Looking. To growing grapes on your own at home or if you're already in the industry, it's something that you may forget about the very basics of it. Like, even Sarah back to your point, make sure you have a line that we will get the grapes. Vegas. Sorry to make it so simple, but sometimes, it makes more of an impact. Congratulate. So we've gone a lot of places with our conversation, this is definitely been really really great. So. What do you think actually sets North Carolina apart from other grape going regions. I have one, but he let you do and I. I could no I. Okay. Sorry. I just I thought you just okay. So what I think What is very unique in North Carolina. is that we really we have probably the highest diversity on what is grown here. In the state. Compared to any other say, I mean the the only other side which I could single, which has like assumed that adversity would be Georgia Arkansas in Arkansas maybe but no that that skate. And Yeah so so We have like almost two hundred binary of Georgia probably has seventy or something. And and an Arkansas I duNno. Types of. Right right. Yeah. So so there are some which have similar diversity. We have a number of wineries. Doesn't have nearly as much musket. Know, exactly. So so we have an we in our state we have on a commercial scale from Moscow denounce for fresh market over must've science for wines where we have actually wineries good wineries to produce mines. To. European style. Do, binds all the way to Italian. We have wineries Stewart decide the Italian wines Society. I don't know if you have takes his country. We did okay and then Then, all the way to Norton. So we have a lot of smartness as well. So we really have to hold with off. Off. Of. Grapes here and. And that is very unique from US Carolina. North. Carolina's one of the few states where you can have their mind in the morning. You can get some fresh on the way and you can. You can end your day with like a Sancho basins all grown in North Carolina you know. So that's really one of the few states we can do that. And the other thing is that we have a huge diversity of native great as well which I think. You know if we had. Uncertain boundless money with provide good source of genetic material. Or developing something for ourselves. But we don't have. In this money. But I think honestly I think that's not. Because North Carolina. Has To put like the biological potential to find. You know, for example, resistance genes and genetic material, which is which could be valuable to the whole industry. For example, we have Muscadet are not affected by by leaf fro of viruses, for example, which is a huge problem in the rest of the world. Or? Or disease. Must. Edge of resistant or tolerant against Houston disease, which is again. A BIG A big. Drop. In other in other parts of the of the of the grapevine. So there's If these genetic attention to find out what's going on in those in those lines and to figure all this whole cubby hole the. Deputy able to develop tools for the rest of the grape industry i. think there is a potential loss Carolina into. From the research. And I think the other thing is having a huge population. Of people that. Once, they move in from out of state eventually. Become, very prideful of of trying to link local. Were eight in local, and so I think. and then with the tourism that we have in the state. because we have. So many interstates that through North Carolina Sal. And then I forty East West. That we get a tremendous flow of people through the stay that provide other market opportunities. People from other regions. Great. INTO THE WINES You know that's A have you know if you look at the map to have all those interstates running vertically through the state. Is a real advantage from the market side. So over the years. Would have been some things that you've been most proud of working here in the in the grape growing industry in North Carolina. So. I wanted to go for three years. Our sorry you can take this one. Part of it is the on the. Relatively short period of time. when I worked in Washington. It took. Many. wineries. wineries. Almost hundred ninety. There were sixty here when I came in Washington in the same period. I, think we've got to six. I now they're up around a thousand set that north. Carolina. The growth in the industry I think. Getting to know the all like mark. That was one of the things that I really enjoyed in And getting. To wait. Are Pruning or at least the final pruning as late in the season they possibly. I think that was. One of the things when I first came here was. One of my first goal. Is people would have a lot of the vineyard. Christie. Because the weather here's some. Frost is a problem. In. So talk to talking to people about pruning and really pushing the concept of. Leaving longer shoots images coming back and doing a short haircut. On the city's a final. Are Buds you to leave routing. and. They always I always here but that's too expensive and all I could think was so you WANNA lose your hope craw. Right. To lose most of the crop. Or to come back and do a quick pass through. If you do all of your. Adjustment on shoot number. At first pass in the back in the. US barely in the least expensive labor I'm back and do that lasts. Make Sense. So. I I only for three years. So I think what I what really. What really appreciated our. Welcoming our. Everybody industry loss towards towards me and I think Sarah the groundwork for that lot. So I was very thankful because was stepping into. Very big footsteps and I'm still not sure if it can fill them out. But Though. It's true and on for a while. Yeah but. But I really I could see I could see that the industry was very appreciative of you because otherwise they wouldn't I felt very welcomed. Bye Bye bye bye bye bye. Bye Engraving Street here John. Sink has a lot to do with you. And then I think. Sarah Blushes. Almost. To the color of your shirt been trying to. Get it on the podcast I will put in a plug for for Suntan Lotion. I just went through skin cancer three. Cream and I will end. I enjoyed beach way too much. You gotTA. Put on your sunscreen. Everyone. Was Not heard of them, right? Yeah. But but one more thing. I think what? What I could do over the last three years was at least to get the instrument but more. Together and the extension agents together some kind of proud to put together those those teams which which are committed to work on grapes. And we also were able to develop. Virus testing capacity at the micro which for grapes, which we didn't have before loss in collaboration with a law of people with UC Davis Ucla. and Mike Propagation. But we were able to test for viruses. We are now able to test for viruses that that something which wasn't there at three years ago. So that's those. Those the two things I'm proud of so far. It's excellent. Many more years to come for. Sure. So. So we're kind of wrapping up on the questions here and we'll have one more question that will finish up with what is it that you're looking forward to in the future for north. Carolina. Adequate research. More. And and I think more colleagues. Mark will have to work with. Not only in north. Carolina but in the south. In in mid Atlantic. And finding. that. There's A. PEOPLE WHO Who Work on grapes a very? Rare into speech and and to the financial support. To do some research on some very. Sparse for for for that matter and I'm trying to find my way wrong that would couple of things but but it's hard to. And that is probably something which I would wish. Would change a little bit in the future. because. If I don't have a student or a a a an employee like post doc. or a technician working on grapes. We cannot do I kinda personally cannot do a lot of progress on the research side and and that is something which me since I'm here. Really you know. and. and. but I didn't find a good way around that so far. But that is that is something which I wish would be that's a challenge really looking forward to. Is what I think what was really important for the Industry North Carolina to. Become a little bit more unified and come a little bit more together and i. i. hope to play a role in that little bit. So that's kind of what am. And I feel that it's going into this direction a little bit minority long-term process. But I hope that deputy can get. You can continue move to this election because I think that is the only way. We can make crocus north, Carolina, so I would second Nath. Duplication of effort. Because there's only one mark one Hannah and. Sarah, Sarah? And so. At sorry Community College. have. Two Services, Sarah Serie, and Sarah at the the the MPM Ms River. A. Helping. To New Sarah's and one retired Sarah. Let's For Not saying. I was just going to point that out. That was really nice. And that's The German. Sarah mark of it's been a pleasure. Thank you both for joining us on court talk today a youtube. Both are very valuable people. In the grape and wine industry in north. Carolina and we're honored to know you and we hope to see you again soon our last really public event that we did before covid happened was actually at children's for the blinder that mark had it was it was great to be able to sit next to talk throughout the evening. With, all the food, all the wine that we enjoyed that evening. So again, thank you very much for taking some time out of your your days to speak with us and to introduce yourself to our listeners. We wouldn't have wine in the state without the two of you. So much appreciation for being here, and we look forward to seeing you again soon, what's all of this breaks and having more conversations? That's it for this episode of Cork, Talk Thanks again to Sarah and Marc. There's so much going on in the broiler grapes. So we'll have them back soon to talk about more. If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating and review. It helps others fine court talk and lets us know how we can improve. Did you know we have a Patriot page? You'll get Patriot only content early access to each show and more. When you sign up, you can find out more information at Patriot. Dot Com slash court talk. And don't forget to follow on social media. You can find us on Facebook instagram and twitter at NC wind guys until next time and remember a cork only talks. It's out of the bottle. Cheers. Talk is Freeman see. Production.
Many roads arent ready for climate change
"I'm dr anthony leiserowitz and this is climate connections most road surfaces in the. Us look pretty similar. You might think they're all the same but they're not transportation. Engineers design asphalt roads specifically for the local climate considering temperature precipitation and humidity. The material that we use in arizona will be different than what we use. In minnesota the material arizona will be stiffer. it'll be able to withstand the high temperatures much better whereas the material in minnesota will be a bit more flexible and accommodate the cold weather much better that scene underwood of north carolina state university. He says that choosing materials engineers rely on climate data but that data is often decades old so as the climate warms engineers may unintentionally make poor choices underwood. Research suggests that about a third of the roads built in the us in the last twenty years were not made out of appropriate materials so some may wear out faster than expected instead of a pavement lasting twenty years. Maybe it only lasts fifteen years. Maybe it has more maintenance that means unexpected costs for communities. So when designing roads underwood's says it's important to account for the changing climate climate connections is produced by the center for environmental communication to hear more stories like this visit climate action's dot org.