20 Burst results for "Nici"

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

07:28 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Again, now that you guys know she's not from Virginia. She's not even from Northern Virginia. No, she's a little bit farther north than there, but look, Sheryl, what an amazing story again. You know, you just think about it. Shot through the jaw through her temporomandibular joint, you know, the TMJ. You know, with a three 5th, I mean, well, it was a 38 round. Fortunately, the guy didn't have a three 57 load. But I mean, but just, you know, and the other thing too is you feel bad too because the guy should have been charged with attempted capital murder. Instead, it was malicious wounding and I get it that you know they've got them on the other homicides, but it goes back to. I'm still so concerned about what we're doing with this it's almost like catch and release in prison. It's like you've got people that are going away that have killed people. I mean, this guy killed three people wounded two police officers and vicious ways. And yet he still gets a parole hearing. Why don't you give somebody a parole hearing who is that violent and that dangerous? I get it. It's geriatric parole. I'm sorry. No, sorry. There are some people who should never, ever see freedom again, and this is one of those guys. Absolutely. Ask his girlfriend's family if they think he should get out. You know, he killed her just because he was mad about something. He's mad at somebody else. He's not the police. Not the world. You know, but the worst part about this is, and I think we touched on this a little bit about the Virginia parole board. Putting Sheryl in this position on a regular basis to have to come in and explain her entire ordeal again, the trauma. She has to relive that trauma. Every time she goes before the parole board, to try to keep this piece of shit in jail where he belongs. You know, he killed three people. None of them were police officers. One of them was his best friend, holy cow. I'd hate to be friends with that guy. Dude, yeah, man, it's any small slight in this guy's whack and you know, but it's just, again, this is one of those discussions. I think we'll have to do a random surprise episode on this for a Patreon. If you guys want to hear it, I think what we ought to do is really talk about what are some of the key issues with parole, because what I mean, here's a word I want to change. Everybody talks about reform. I want to talk about improvement. There's criminal justice improvement. There's improvements we can make in the court. There's improvements we can make in policing. We have improved policing over time. You know what we used to do with mentally ill people, 25, 30 years ago, it's nothing like what we do with them now and the treatment they get in the services they get, you know, the way she attacks even things like prostitution, no longer is the sex worker as the person providing the services, the suspect, they're actually many times they're the victim. They're being trafficked by other people. So, I mean, we have come we have improved our way of looking at things. So I think we need improvement, rather reform sounds like, well, let's we've got a reform this because it's bad. No, guys, we still got the best justice system in the entire world. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you don't believe a go to a third world country, just stick around for a while. You'll be anxious to get back to the terrible United States that you'd like to complain about so much. But you know what we're taking away from Sheryl story here. She is. She's a freaking hero. She's still. She said trooper. Trooper, you had identified trooper with being heroic and fierce and the warrior mindset. Thank you, Steve. I will wash my mouth out with lie after we finish this recording. I promise. But I mean, Cheryl, your hero lady and our eyes proud to call you a colleague, a sister and a friend. So thank you very much for being on the show. And thank you once again for a living your story. I mean, I know I would certainly think that's got to be a traumatic experience. But, you know, these people we bring on, they don't hesitate. They lay it all out there, and that's the cool thing for about game of crimes is our listeners here from the people who actually endured and went through the investigations and the crimes committed against them. It's not us telling their story. You hear it from the horse's mouth. And it's not us telling a story about which something we have no connection to. When we bring these people on, we have a connection to them either because we know them directly or we know somebody who knows them directly. I mean, we're all separated by 1° of separation at the max 2° on a lot of this stuff. So that's what makes it great. But you know what else makes it great Murph? What's that? When people hit on over to Apple podcast and give us 5 stars, especially for episodes like this. The other thing too, I wanted to say, and thank you guys for the support on Claudia's episode. I have banished the company that we were trying to use, the new platform we're trying to use the audio sucked on that. I just tell you that right up front, apologize for that. It will never, ever happen again. And that's why I want you to give us 5 stars because we will readily come on and admit our faults, I will tell you everything that wrong with Steve and why he needs to correct it. He's a very short conversation. Well, there's some other things that are very short too, but we will mention those. Yeah. Depends on where it's at. So let's go to head on over to Apple podcast, hit those 5 stars, give us that rating. We're working hard every week to earn that by bringing a new stories. You I guarantee you you did not get anywhere else. Head on over to the crimes podcast dot com for more information about the shows when we have pictures and stuff. That's where we put it for the episodes. We're constantly updating it. Make sure you follow us on social media at game of crimes on Twitter at game of crimes podcast on Facebook and the Instagram. PayPal just use our email game of crimes podcast at Gmail dot com or PayPal me slash game of crimes, whatever it makes it easier. But again, you gotta head on over to Patreon. We're gonna have so much fun on December 22nd at 8 p.m. eastern in the year of our lord 2021 KDA dominate dominance direct to him. Don't you guys be listening to this three months from now and going, hey, where's the live stream? We clearly said it's December 22nd, 2021. And we'll probably do this again. We'll have some stuff like this. We want you guys to see the kind of fun we do, but the kind of preparation we do. But we're going to have fun. Patreon dot com slash game of crimes. We have so much content coming out over there. We've got our Q&A from just this last for this month. We just released on the tenth, some really good questions. We have got some people who and really, you know, you think, you know, don't you get the same questions each time? No, I'm telling you each time. Somebody's got a different take, you know, what about this? You've got head on over to do that. And just make sure that you sign up for it because there's no other way to hear the extra special stuff we do for you unless you go to Patreon dot com slash game of crimes. Yeah, there you go. Come and join us and we're going to live stream on Facebook, so come on over there. December 22nd, 8 p.m. Eastern Time. That's 7% 7 7%. 7% central 6% mountain 5% California kiss California is always weak stuff out there. But if you want, if you want the full boat, if you want the full beverage, the 7%, 8% ABV. That's 8 p.m. eastern on December 22nd. 2021, we will be doing a live stream at Facebook dot com slash game of crimes podcast. You guys don't you just go over to the page. You don't even have to we hope you like it. We hope to join Patreon, but it's free to watch and we'll be having fun. A couple surprises for you. So until then, right, Murph, get ready for Christmas, right? We're getting ready. This is our Christmas gift to everybody. All right. So thank you guys. Once again for playing the biggest baddest, most dangerous game of all, the game of crimes..

Sheryl Virginia parole board Northern Virginia Virginia Steve Murph Cheryl Apple PayPal Claudia United States Facebook Twitter California
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

07:19 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Don't do that. You'll get in trouble. You know, and I'm like, what the fuck are they going to do? Shoot me in the head. And so I get written up, who gives a shit? My boss book my current boss would probably tell you that. Sometimes we butt heads, but at the end of the day he knows my heart's in the right place. We don't have to agree at the end of the day. He's the boss, but if I don't agree with him, God knows he's going to hear it. I'm shocked. You're kind of withdrawn and shy and retiring. You? You up in his face, telling him where he went wrong. I am shocked. Steve, you shock? I didn't think we'd ever get her to come out of her show. To give us an interview. What's taking a while, taking a while to get you there, Cheryl, and I'm glad we did. Anyway, so the city decided to pay do the right thing. But I went through a lot of that without knowing what my rights were, what they weren't, whatever. 2015, off to Bill Turner that I worked with when I worked the street. He got shot seriously injured in the line of duty. Prior to that, if people needed anything, I'm still part of the family. I'll always be part of the family. My Friends, my connections, my work that I do everything. But offices retired off since everybody was contacted me and going, hey, we're supposed to be updated by the deputy chief. We're supposed to be updated by the chief of police who was ray Terra Soviet at the time. And Steve drew was the deputy chief and they're supposed to be update us on Turner's condition, what's going on? Nothing's happening. There's rumor going around that they may try to get out of paying him for this reason for that reason. So what can you do? I'm like, okay, here's what I can do. I need three or four year old volunteer. We got to do it quick. We put together Richmond united for enforcement, which the acronym is rule. And the philosophy being, if you want the men and women in uniform to follow the rules, you have to do the white shirts, the administration. It was developed to bring the community and the profession and the Richmond police department together to work together toward common goals, primarily public safety. It was to build relationships. As I told you earlier, that community support in that community involvement was a critical piece in my healing, but also in kind of getting the city to see the light and do the right thing because they did not want to look bad in the eyes of the community. So we put together a provincial within less here we go again. You troublemaker another prayer vigil. Less than 24 hours. You know, this is like 5 30 at night. I reached out to ray Terra Soviet. I reached out to drew. Didn't get a response, said, hey, what's going on? What's going on with Turner? What's his condition? The offices aren't getting any feedback. We want to know, what can we do to help? No response. So if I come with the name of the organization, I get some volunteers on board, reach out, to the VCU police, chief, get clarence, to hold a privileged, initially we were going to do it around the hospital. We did it nearby instead. Put out a press release, started notifying everybody, email, phone, you know, that's where my volunteers were hoping social media direct messaging. Everything that we were meeting to pray for turn is recovery. Got messages through civilian Friends, nurses, to his family, that, you know, look, your sergeant can't force you to sign anything. I've got attorneys pro Bono that will give you advice. I will come in and advocate for you, do not sign anything. Any officers that get hurt, we provide services, support, support for the family. Something is simple as meals, free legal advice, the offices can't say a whole lot to the media, but I certainly can. I've had pretty good work in relationships with the previous police chiefs. This current police chief, I'm not even convinced he lives in Richmond permanently. I have not even met him, most of the officers here haven't met him, but I was is this the one that came from? Where is it North Carolina or South Carolina? North Carolina. North Carolina. Yeah. That's another podcast, but anyway, ironically, we're going to hold this, we're going to hold this privilege on that Sunday afternoon. I get a call 7 30 Sunday morning from major Steve drew at 7 30 in the morning, and he's like, oh, misses neutral, caramel? I'm like, yes, Steve, what can I do for you? He's like, oh, I say I'm kind of busy I'm planning a privilege, you know? And he's all, that's what I'm calling you about. We don't think that's a really good idea. And I said, you know what, Steve? I don't give a fuck what you think. I don't work for you anymore. I said, so let me tell you how we're going to roll. I said, this is where we're going to be. If you're there and you're nice, I'll give you the mic for a few minutes. And you'll be recognized. If you're not there, that will be recognized. And I guess you won't need the mic. So, gotta run for now. Hope to see you at two. Talk for now. Cut off for now. I hate to negotiate with you. No, dude. This is how we roll. This is how it's going down. Yeah. Yeah. What can you do to me? Shoot me in the head. Make it the right side. Matching holes, please. Okay. You survived something like what I've been through and you get treated the way I was treated and you see other people get screwed over. No. I don't have to be silent anymore. And that bullet that was meant to silence me only made my voice stronger. And on the flip side, if there's a bad cop and the officers will tell you this, I will gift wrap them and hand them up in a New York minute. So why should not a Boston minute? Why did you say New York? You're from Boston. Is there such thing as a Boston minute? New York minutes. Everybody knows what a New York man. I know, I'm just busting your job. When I was 16, I used to skip school. I take people's express and catch a flight over to New York City with a true and officer couldn't catch me. Fly back in time for work. I spent a lot of time in New York. Try doing that post 9 11. That's not going to happen. Cheryl, we want to end on a really great story and you didn't tell this. He said it in the pre call and.

ray Terra Steve drew united for enforcement Richmond police department Bill Turner Turner Steve Richmond Cheryl North Carolina VCU clarence Bono South Carolina New York Boston New York City
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

08:02 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"I'm saying this as a caveat to you, marfan Sheryl, even me. We don't do politics here, but the one issue the one concern you had, even though he was given this sentence plus a 116 years, documented cases of cop killers in Virginia that were released. On parole and you had a real concern is that a previous parole board may have seen their wife fit to release this guy on parole. Absolutely. The parole board has never had to notify me after he had served, I believe it was 17 years. He became eligible for parole. Parole wasn't abolished for violent offenders until 1995 under governor Allen. Which meant that woodfin is eligible for parole. And then did 17 years, and then I started having to go every one to three years to the parole board to keep him incarcerated. I let them know when he was due. What a lot of people don't know is they only have a very small amount of available hearing dates, each quarter. The parole board is supposed to notify the victims or their families if the victims are deceased of the upcoming parole hearing. However, the victims are supposed to register with the vine system, which is currently recently been updated. As I understand it, the parole board is supposed to supposed to attempt to locate and notify the victims and their families. Last year, especially, that wasn't happening. Everybody was doing stuff. Freestyled their own way using COVID-19, or whatever reason. And victims, victims, families were not getting located. They were not being notified. And a huge amount of the worst of the worst defenders were released back into society. Many of the victims and their families did not know. We're talking serious sex offenders. The worst of the worst killers. We're talking about a lady who with her, I think it was daughter and the daughter son killed this lady's husband through his body into a well covered it up and then had a party in the same damn place 6 days later with this guy in the well they got the they got the young son, the son of the grandson to go and kill this guy, she did 6 years and she got out without notifying the Commonwealth's attorney or the family. Correct? Unbelievable. You know, and notwithstanding COVID, notwithstanding COVID or anything else, it doesn't release you from your responsibilities. If you're holding that position. Well, there's only so much I can say because I am sure this is not totally over. The former chairperson, Adrian Bennett, was appointed a judge as a judge down in Virginia Beach. She has been on administrative leave. There were several complaints made to the office of the state inspected general reportedly those investigations found the parole board in violation of policy procedure and state code. Richmond united for law enforcement, we were very involved in providing services for the victims hooking people up and doing some independent investigating and providing information to the appropriate sources. The parole board, they were releasing a huge amount of people, the worst of the worst. I wish I could tell you more on that. Maybe that's something where I could hook you up with some people. Another time for another story after everything is completed last I heard now judge Adrian Bennett is on administrative leave and that's all I can really say right now. But at the end of the day, there needs to be accountability on all levels. And I think both of you will agree with me that the people in the professional law enforcement, yeah, we have bad apples and law enforcement too, but the good apples hate the bad apples worse than anybody because it tarnishes the profession, the integrity and everything. And I'm here to tell you the majority of people in law enforcement truly care, they want to make a positive difference. They want to help. And they will hand the bad apples up, quicker than anybody. There has to be transparency and accountability. If you want to be a criminal, be a criminal, don't be a cop. Don't be a prosecutor. Don't be a state, somebody in a state office. Don't be on a parole board and think you have no accountability. And that's something that I truly hope the newly elected officials will make some positive changes and reforms for the parole board because here is a part of a system that I was always so proud to be a part of that has become the enemy. It's taken up for the criminals and they're supposed to be unbiased and victims are supposed to have rights. And victims rights were clearly violated in so many cases. Yeah, this just wasn't a one off. This was a continuous pattern of behavior that went on and on and on. And look, you're right, we could do a lot more on this. I don't want to take away from the last part of your story because I think the last part of this really emphasizes where your heart is on this. And look, do you just spoke to mersey when you said that about the bad apples? He routinely says, what do you always say, Murph? Nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop. And they should be put under the jail. They should be held more accountable than other criminals. You take on a position of public service, public trust, that's what goes with it. And if you're on the parole board, if you're the governor, if you're a police officer, you're a public servant. You can't betray the public's trust. Yeah, set the politics aside, it's about, let's look at the facts of the case and determine that now are there some people who've gone to prison that become good candidates for parole? Absolutely. That's the purpose of parole. But it amazes me. Somebody who was given three life sentences plus a hundred and what did you say 60 years or 16 years? 16. How do you get a 116 years plus three life sentences and still become if he wasn't eligible for parole, he wouldn't be having a parole hearing. Now woody. How do you kill three people and then you're eligible for parole? You don't deserve to get out. What the lies were back then when he got convicted and like I said, even if he wasn't eligible for parole engine geriatric reform in Virginia, he would still be eligible for pearl because they want to get once the inmates hit about 60. They want to start getting the older inmates out. They become very expensive because healthcare is the biggest cost center in a jail in a prison. You know, just taking care of that stuff. Well, hey, look. Let's leave that there for a minute because I want to talk about let's just real quickly talk about how many more years did you stay on Richmond? And then let's talk about your work on victim's rights and a lot of the stuff you're doing now. I went back approximately 6 months later. Rode with the supervisor.

Adrian Bennett marfan Sheryl governor Allen woodfin united for law enforcement Virginia Virginia Beach Richmond Murph woody
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

07:13 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Good attitude. Good attitude. My teeth all had to be capped and crowned. And extensive dental work. Back in 2015, it took me and my attorney a few years to duke it out with the city because my the little odds of teeth that were left under the caps, crowns and bridges had all brought it out because when you have captioned crowns, coffee and things get in over the years and little shreds of shaven teeth that were left had deteriorated. So I wanted to get implant and the city had told me that, you know, any of my medical costs associated with this injury would be covered for the rest of my life. And ironically, when officer Bill Turner got shot on a Friday in 2015, January 2015, that following Thursday, I was supposed to go to the work as comp commission against the city of Richmond to fight for my teeth and we had a prayer vigil for him, Richmond united for law enforcement was formed. We held a prayer vigil for him that Sunday and on that Monday my lawyer reportedly got a call from the city attorney saying she was that Cheryl Nietzsche we saw her on the news last night, holding the privilege of turn of the same one that we're going to court with on Thursday and he said, the one and only. And she was like, well, I don't know why this is even going to court. You know, and anyway, they decided to do the right thing and cover my dental limb plants, and we didn't have to go to work as calm. But so now I have all implants. Well, combined with the plate you should get tremendous reception then on your cell phone. I'm just telling you, you sound good. I don't have a plan in my head. I just have the scratches. Yeah. Good enough for government work, you know? So you got the bright shiny smile and the great reception, but let's go back and talk now about post event because at some point this goes to court, like you say, would fins now wants to represent himself and he has got just a fucking marvelous defense for why it couldn't have been him and that he still maintains to this day, but let's talk about the trial getting prepped for the trial. How did that tell us to walk us through that? How did that get set up? And when did you actually go to trial after the shooting? The judge did require him to have two court appointed attorneys, whether he wanted their help or not. He was going to have two attorneys appointed to assist him. And one of them was the former Commonwealth attorney, both were great attorneys. So we show up for the preliminary hearing in December, I believe it was December third or December 6th and they're going to be, you know, just certifying the case to circuit court. And they wanted to try my case first because there was an eyewitness in my case who saw wood thin shoot me was able to identify him. They had retrieved the weapon. The clothes he was wearing, the bullet that matched everything because of course in the homicides they were no eyewitnesses, they needed the conviction in my case to get the conviction in the other cases. So I walk into court and you know the detectives and the Commonwealth attorney of the era and they are with some close friends and all of a sudden come off attorney scans up and make some motion to reduce the charge from a temp capital murder to malicious wounding to say I was shocked and angry is probably an understatement. And now just a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about our brand new sponsors story wars. Now, Murph this holiday season, I want to give a gift to my loved ones that makes them feel special and unique. Just like you, that's why I'm giving everybody I care about story worth. That's a great idea, Morgan, story worth. Now, that's an online service that helps you and your loved ones preserve precious memories and stories for years to come. It's a thoughtful and meaningful gift that connects you to those who matter the most to you. Well, you know, and what they do is they work email relatives or friends thought provoking questions. Imagine if we were able to capture all the stories of the greatest generation, my dad was a World War II vet. You know, I've got uncles. I've got, you know, we've got people with such history. We've got to collect these and keep these things for the future, 'cause otherwise we'll forget them. That's why story worth is so great. I love it. I love it. And you know what, after one year story worth compiles all your loved ones stories, including whatever photographs you decide to send in into a beautiful keepsake book that you'll be able to share and visit for generations to come. What Connie and I are going to do. We have a lot of nieces and nephews. We're putting together books on the grandparents so that they'll always have those memories. And maybe there'll be a picture and they're about your new alligator friends and your new home in Florida, right? Yeah, so folks with story worth I'm given everyone, I love most a thoughtful personal gift from the heart, preserving memories and stories for years to come. So go to story worth dot com slash game crimes and save $10 on your first purchase. That story worth dot com slash GA ME CRI MES to save $10 on your first purchase. And now let's get back to crime fighting. I was so tempted to stand up and say, you know what? What the fuck? What's just like reducing simple assault and be done with it today? I mean, the guy just shot me in the fucking head and tried to kill me. What in the world? So the motion was granted. The case was certified and I remember talking to the detective Sargent, the detective and come off attorney outside of the courtroom afterward and going. What the fuck just happened? This guy tried to kill me. Why did he do something to charge? You know, what's going on? And that's when they explained that, you know, my case needed to be heard first. I was going to have to testify at every single trial and that we needed to make sure we had a conviction to be able to try and convict in the other cases. We had to make sure we had a conviction in my case. And I'm like, what the fuck? You couldn't have told me this ahead of time. You know, professional courtesy could have prepared me? That's the worst part. Do you not realize that I was just shot in the head? I was ambushed attacked a couple of weeks ago. Less than two months ago, we're talking, I got shot on October 26th, then we're talking. This is like December 6th. How did they explain that? Just what I said that they needed to have a conviction and that I was right..

comp commission Richmond united for law enforc Cheryl Nietzsche Bill Turner Richmond circuit court Murph Morgan Connie Florida Sargent
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

08:06 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Was only out on workers comp for about 6 months. I received a phone call from somebody who was a detective reportedly with the Petersburg police department. And one of the specialized units who wanted to meet me to discuss the relationship between the Richmond police department and the Petersburg police department apparently they were having some issues working together on some investigations. They wanted to meet me at this little not one of the upscale bars during the afternoon to discuss their concerns with me. Let me wipe stupid off my forehead, right? Number one, I'm not the public relations representative for Richmond police. Number two, what do you really want? So basically I was like, oh, let me check my schedule, you know? Let me give me a call back. I called a couple of my close friends that worked the same unit as this guy. And I said, you know, look, let's find out what this guy really wants. If I go meet him like will you guys be in the booth? You know, behind me, and they were like, NFL, you're not going. You probably won't make it in that bar alive. I like a hit. And like he said, you up for a hit. Anyway, he called back. And I said, look, his deal, if you really want to meet with me, we can meet down at police headquarters. I'll secure a conference room, but I really don't see how I'm going to be able to help you at all. Because I don't work in that unit. I don't work with that unit, and I have nothing to do with public relations. What do you really want? And on top of that, you got about three years on the job, right? At this point, yeah. Yeah, so nothing against patrolman, but that's not a decision making position when it comes to politics like that. Right. I was a patrol officer. I was working task for a special operation. Right. But nothing to do with this guy's specialized unit. Right. By the way, earlier when you said nfw, that's a technical cop term as well. That means no fucking way. That is not happening. So let's go back now. Let's put a pin in that. We'll discuss that a little bit more, but the issue is, let's talk about wood fin. Now turning quote, turning himself in. When did you first know that woodfin was in custody? I would like to say probably that Monday that Sunday that Monday, but I don't think it registered until that Tuesday. Willard bubba worsham was also in the hospital and he came down and introduced himself and we sat there and had a chat. And of course, you know, people were coming in, able to come in and see me and we're coming in to see me. This was a funny sideline. It was an attorney I knew from court. Just from court, but he came in to visit me because he did a lot of public defender work. And he didn't want to be a sign of represent woodfin. So he could he came in and created a conflict of interest so he could conflict himself out. Yes. Fast food years later him, I introduced him to my best friend and she ended up marrying him and happily married all these years later. Oh, nice. Very nice. Yeah, it's always been a big joke. He's like, ah, walk down. I know you don't know who the hell I am, but I just want to let you know I'm really concerned. You might recognize me from court here. Here's a couple of my deuces. And by the way, give me a dollar. This is something I learned off of watching Better Call Saul, right? He's just give me a dollar. You know, just give me something so we can create that attorney client relationship and stuff. So create that relationship, and I can say, sorry. Now there's a defense attorney I can respect. Somebody comes in and says, look, I defend a lot of people. I just don't want to defend this guy. Well, woodfin decided he wanted to represent himself in court. Great. Hold on before we get to that, Cheryl, let's go back and just finish up that piece. So talking about, you found out, how did you find out that he was in custody? Who finally told you? Everybody. Okay. Everybody. They may have told me on Saturday, but Saturday I was still on life support and in and out of it. So how long after you're shooting did woodfin quote turn himself in? Was that like two days one day afterwards? From what I understand it was sometime during the day that Saturday so like the next day. Okay. But I don't know that like I said to be definite because. Well, don't worry, you're not under oath here. We're not going to cross examine you. Oh, my name. Concept of time. Like I said, it was totally gone. So you get out, but like you say, you're out and how long is your rehab? What do you have to do for your rehab? Because you've been shot in the face. You've been shot through the jaw, so talking, moving, eating and stuff. That's all got to be just excruciating stuff to go through. You will laugh. I think just as much as I can now. That was the biggest thing with the tubes down my throat and everything man. I couldn't talk. So I went home, I'll never forget that Thanksgiving. I had so much to be thankful for, but I wanted to eat. And my jaw was still wired. My jaws still broke, pig should turkey, gravy, gravy, stuffing, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, everything in the blender and trying to drink this brown fluid. It was nasty and is what it looked like. Okay. I was able to eat baby food. Let me tell you. I would never want to be a baby again. Those meat dinners with mixed vegetables, nasty. I like the baby food bananas and some of the veggies were okay, but everything was soft and pretty much through a straw. Once they unwired unconnected my jaw, I could eat soft foods. So it was a long recovery process. Had the hearing impairment can't be corrected. I have an error on the outside, but obviously on the inside, it's destroyed. 9 levels of hearing. I regained a little bit in three of the levels, a little more and the other three levels and the other three levels had totally gone, but I would tell you, this always a positive in the negative, because I tell people, you know, I have a hearing impairment, if I don't acknowledge you I didn't hear you. So I hope my boss isn't listening in on this. There will be times he tells me to do stuff and I just keep going. And then he'll go, wait, did you get that done yet? I'm like, what? He's like, I told you to do like, did I answer you? I'm not you, I'm so sorry. And you know I don't have hearing in this ear here. So just unless you put it in writing several times and send it to me certified mail. You know, I'm not gonna get it. I'm sorry, just, you know, you know how it works. I would tell you, I tell everybody, you gotta yell at me if I talk loud. I'm not yelling at you. I just, you know, I have a hearing impairment. You know, I have the positional vertigo as far as I had the positional vertigo. You know, I couldn't climb on anything. I would get dizzy in that. But that pretty much leveled out. I kept my head long for a long time, and I was very self conscious of my next scar, but after a while, I got to hear short and I said, why am I covering that up, man? That's my middle of survivorship. Battle scar. Yeah, it's a part of me..

woodfin Petersburg police department Richmond police department Willard bubba worsham Richmond NFL Saul Cheryl
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

08:32 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Me lead head, and I tell them it's better than dead head. Absolutely. I had to carry a letter for a long time if I flew because I would always set off the metal detectives at the airport. There is a story that there's one you don't get, hey, sorry, I have to play my head. You know, the upside is or the downside is I got to get scandal to come the upside is I get great reception on my cell phone. You're telling us if you touch the antenna. Here, let me hold your television and improve your reception. Ironically, my doctors called me miracle girl. They did not expect me to live. But you know something that this is a lesson than for the medical professionals or the people out there and you're exactly right. You know, don't tell people, Steven, I just had this discussion on the previous podcast with Claudia. It's like there have been times where cops have talked themselves into dying from wounds that were not fatal because of their self talk inside here, but the last thing you want to hear is somebody rolling up on the scene going. Ah, this guy's toast. Let's head back to the station. You know, you don't want to hear that kind of stuff. And I teach CPR for a state on the side. That's kind of my way of paying it forward because if this man hadn't known what to do and perform the correct first state on me that night, I mean, he was a critical component in control in the bleeding and calling for help and a key component to my survival, but I always tell people that you comfort and reassure the victim. You know, you're not qualified to make a diagnosis even if you are. You don't tell them anything other than they're going to be okay. And that's going to help keep you calm. Watch your facial expression. On the flip side of that, there was an officer in Florida that had gotten shot, not terribly long after me. And he was shot like in the arm. It was like a reportedly a treat and release wound. It went in one side out the other, not hitting any veins or anything. And he died. And I think that's the one I was thinking of when you said that because that was one of the ones they talked to us about is about how you can talk yourself into dying. And it's all about you see, you said the same thing. Claudia said Alex said even Kevin, your partner, Murph, you know, said, it's that will to survive. It's like now not today. Maybe some but not today. Yeah, you know what? And that man, it's a shame that that man, you are not today able to identify that helped you out initially there right after you'd been shot because that's like a guardian angel. And I know you'd love to pay the respect and give him the thanks that he's due. But I do have one question. So after all this is over, did you go tune up that doctor that you heard when you thought he thought you couldn't hear him? I know you did. Come on sir. I'll tell you you did. I've only hit one doctor. Here we go with the caveats. I've only hit one doctor. Not that particular doctor. You know, he came in and told me, oh, no, we were talking about another patient. You got to call bullshit sometimes. And I looked at him. And I said, bullshit. There you go. I said, you know, I may have gotten shot, but I'm not stupid. I heard you. And by the way, that's, you know, in law enforcement, that's a technical term, we there we call bullshit on things. Bullshit. Indication of your veracity there, mister witness, so let's look, trust me, there are ten different directions we could go with this, but we want to stay focused on your recovery. So you're in the hospital. Walk us through, you got that craniotomy. Now, they put the plate. What happens after that? How long do you stay in ICU? Do you stay in the hospital? What other things do you go through? Okay, so I get shot on a Friday night. They do the craniotomy and everything on the Saturday. On Sunday, I believe it was Sunday or maybe Monday morning. I still remember this doctor in this name, but I will be nice and leave it out of it. They take me down to the OR and they're going to replace the tubes in my nose, the feeding tubes, if you will, the ox. I don't think it was oxygen. They're putting some tubes down my nose into my throat. And I was sedated, but I was conscious. Now, picture this, you know, probably down to about a hundred pounds, 99 pounds again, okay. I had the game weight to get on the PD up to one O 5 from my weight. You know, head shade. Cause Wyatt. I mean, I'm a mess. And they take the old tubes out and he's gonna put new feeding tubes in and one of the interns tells them, you know, we don't have the right size. And he's like, don't worry about it. We'll make them fit. And he starts trying to cram these tubes down my nose into my throat. Jeez. Well, I'm here to tell you proudly. I reached up. I grabbed his neck with both hands and started to choke the living shit out of this doctor. It took 6 interns to hold me down. I'm surprised you didn't reach up and grab something else that would have got his attention. That was probably too low and too small. Bazinga, there you go, Doc, you've been slammed whoever you are if you're listening to this. There you go, man. Needless to say, I didn't get those tubes reinserted. They brought me back to my room. My mom gets there. I tell her what happened. I said, I don't want him near me again. I don't trust him. I don't like him. He was told they were too big. He tried to force him. You know, my mom, nope, that was taken right off the case. She put in a formal complaint, everything. They came and talked to me about it. So now I'm in and out of consciousness and that Monday which would have been the 29th of October. They moved me down to med surg. I'm still heavily sedated. I don't even realize I've been moved down to a med surg flaw. Well, and those things were called NG tubes. This is the same discussion we had with Claudia. You know, they go through your nose down into your stomach so they can deliver medication and food. So because your jaws wired, how are you getting calories? How are you getting sustenance at this time? We'll get to that in a minute. Let me just tell you about my position down to the med surg unit. So I don't even realize I'm not nice for you anymore. It's nighttime. It's dark out. There's one window to my left. They have. You know those tables that they put over your hospital bed so you can sit up and eat. They have a table on each side of the bed, the right side, the front of the bed, and the left side. Well, you can't get flowers when you're in ICU. So these three tables are loaded with flowers. And I wake up and there's a little crack in the draperies. So this is just a little bit of light coming in from the outside and it's dark out now. And I remember thinking I was going to funeral home. I'm like, I'm like pinching my arm and I remember going. I saw I was dead and I was in the funeral home because of the huge amount of flowers around where I was lying. Well, damn, that's like you being in the morgue there walking around, you know, you saved a life. You know, you got, wait a minute, guys. Not my time yet, not ready, you know, hello, over here. It was unbelievable. I couldn't get in and out of the bed. Here I am surrounded by flowers. It's dark. You know, and I'm like, oh my God, I died. So then when I realized I'm not dead, you know, I find the little buzzer and no concept of time again, apparently I had missed dinner and they forgot to feed me. Because I was feeling hungry. And you know, the nurse came in and I remember telling her like, you know, hey, you know, when did they move me down here? You know, what do you mean I can't get up to go to the bathroom and you know I still it wouldn't connect in that I still had all these IVs and stuff in me and well, they had forgotten to feed me and apparently the kitchen was closed. I think it was relatively late because this nurse felt so bad that she gave me her can of Campbell's soup that she had brought in.

Claudia Murph Steven Alex Kevin Florida Wyatt Campbell
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

01:51 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

02:10 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"The people <Speech_Female> at the <Silence> establishment <Speech_Music_Female> event. <Speech_Female> If <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Female> let's say <Speech_Male> I was working a <Speech_Female> bar and a fight <Speech_Female> broke out, <Speech_Female> I would be <Speech_Male> expected to intervene, <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> break up the fight, <Speech_Female> if need be, <Silence> making arrest. <Speech_Female> <Speech_Music_Female> <Speech_Female> <SpeakerChange> You <Speech_Female> didn't <Speech_Male> deal with <Speech_Female> the trifling <Speech_Female> things. Like, <Speech_Female> well, I didn't anyway. <Speech_Female> <Speech_Female> And most didn't <Speech_Female> like, you know, jaywalking <Speech_Male> or spitting <Speech_Male> on the sidewalk <Speech_Male> or, <Silence> you know, <Speech_Female> <Speech_Female> if there <Speech_Female> was a domestic <Speech_Female> dispute, you <Speech_Female> attempted to <Speech_Female> intervene, <Speech_Female> <SpeakerChange> advise <Speech_Female> the parties, <Speech_Music_Male> break it up. <Speech_Female> <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> You know, <Speech_Female> but no, you were expected <Speech_Female> to <Speech_Female> take whatever enforcement <Speech_Male> you needed <Speech_Female> to <Speech_Male> protect <SpeakerChange> the <Speech_Male> people at <Speech_Male> the event. Yeah, in other words, you <Speech_Male> didn't go looking for trouble, <Speech_Male> but you didn't <Speech_Male> get if trouble happened <Speech_Male> in front of you. You went <Speech_Male> and handled <Speech_Male> it as though you were on <Speech_Male> duty. Absolutely. <Speech_Male> And I know <Speech_Male> we all get this, <Speech_Male> but I think what's interesting <Speech_Male> for a lot of folks <Speech_Male> too who are listening <Speech_Male> in is <Speech_Male> that a lot of times <Speech_Male> you think some <Speech_Male> might think that hey if you're <Speech_Male> working off due to you're still <Speech_Male> not a cop. I mean, you're <Speech_Male> just working off duty gig <Speech_Male> and the realization is, <Speech_Male> I <Speech_Male> mean, you're a cop 24/7. <Speech_Male> I mean, you've <Speech_Male> got the powers <SpeakerChange> of arrest <Speech_Male> 24/7. <Speech_Female> Absolutely. You've <Speech_Male> taken an oath <Speech_Female> to <Speech_Female> serve and protect. <Speech_Female> I remember when <Speech_Female> I was a rookie. <Speech_Female> There <Speech_Female> was a violent domestic <Speech_Female> happening in <Speech_Female> ronco county where <Silence> I was living at the time. <Speech_Female> <Speech_Female> You know, I didn't just <Speech_Female> keep walking 'cause <Speech_Female> I'm not working. <Speech_Male> You had to carry <Speech_Male> your badge, your ID, <Speech_Female> your weapon <Speech_Male> with you. <Speech_Male> That's <Speech_Music_Male> changed a little <Speech_Female> bit now. <Speech_Female> <Silence> As I understand <Speech_Female> it, <Speech_Female> but back in the <Speech_Female> day, when I was a police <Speech_Female> officer, <SpeakerChange> absolutely <Speech_Music_Female> 24/7. <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Speech_Male> <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> Hey players, that was <Speech_Male> the end of part one with Cheryl <Speech_Male> Nietzsche and <Speech_Male> being ambushed <Speech_Male> by a spree killer. <Speech_Male> Part two <Speech_Male> is going to contain a lot <Speech_Male> more information about <Speech_Male> the investigation <Speech_Male> what happened to Sheryl and her <Speech_Male> recovery. In <Speech_Male> the meantime, make sure you <Speech_Male> wait for that episode, which <Speech_Male> will drop on Thursday. <Speech_Male>

ronco county Cheryl Sheryl
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

04:51 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Sudden the dog sense danger and he started running around in a back and barking and woodfin had aimed for bubba's left temporal area with the gun, but bob I had turned around in the driver's seat to focus on the dog and see what was going on with the dog and ended up getting shot in the shoulder and the arm instead of his temple. Isn't it amazing? I mean, canines are highly trained in you, but these canines become so I mean, they're so attached to their handler and to the deputy or the police officer who works out. For them to sense danger like that. That's the stuff that's always amazing to me about these really highly trained canines is what they're really capable of. Yeah, so that dog did save his life. And he was able to get her on the radio and say he was shot and, you know, give a description. This all happened on October 24th, right? This all happened in one night, the three killings, and then the shooting of the deputy. It was very late night. I don't know if it was exactly October 24th, 1984 when they shot bob when he shot bubba on just past midnight. But it was in that same time frame. The initial shootings were all pretty close in time together. Oh, yeah. It was like it was like a killing spree. And just to backtrack a little bit, this whole bizarre thing had started when woodfin and his wife's apartment in Hanover county in Ashland was hit with the search warrant woodfin was arrested for drugs porn weapons, the wily was attempting to get away from him and out of the marriage at the time. Anyway, after he was released on bail, which was further down the road, then his wife, I believe his wife cooperated with the police and said, look, protect me, help me, you know. Got to go off the grid. I'm terrified. I want out of this marriage. This is not who I thought I was marrying. And if you had met woodfin before any of the stuff.

woodfin bubba bob Hanover county Ashland
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

05:05 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Can't remember exactly to tell you the truth, but it was I mean, was it like within 6 months or a year? It might have been within the past year. And what were the issues with the city? They didn't, they didn't want to cover medical costs or what? The city is self insured. Oh, there you there's your answer right there or anything they can do to save money. Absolutely. It's like even now, they have a policy that an officer has to be wearing their body armor. They're life vest. It doesn't matter if you get shot in the leg, you get shot in the arm, you get shot in the head. If you don't have your body armor on, they don't have to covey. Yeah, I was responsible partially at least for a couple of policy changes in the city. You know, me always looking to affect change. I like positive change, but there you go. Change that, hey, I might have been responsible for a few policies and policy changes during my tenure. One of those things, hey, look, if you're not the lead dog, the views all the same, man. I always wanted to lead the pack. You know, if we're going to change something, I want to be at the forefront of it. So let's kind of start in the context now for what happened with you because you've signed up now. So tell us about the off duty. When did you now let me ask you quickly before that on the off duty, did you guys normally work off duty on the same days you had work or was that did you just mostly do off duty on your weekends or on your time off? Oh, you did it whenever you could. A lot of times saw the officers would leave their regular assignment, go to an off duty job, then go home and sleep, sometimes she slept, sometimes she didn't. Sometimes caught an app in the hole..

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

03:59 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"And now let's get back to crime fighting. I might have violated the sovereign territory of the city of salina a few times, going places, but everybody did the thing though when you were a trooper, we used to meet some of the troops across the state line in Colorado over in Lamar Colorado and search and tell me this. I'm telling you officially don't do it. If you do do it..

salina Colorado Lamar
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

05:11 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"Podcast. You can tell. You could say you could say we are here for you, Cheryl. That's right. I'm going to remain somewhat of A-okay. Okay. I can imagine there'll be an Italian, your last name ended in a vowel at that time, Nietzsche, so I'm pretty sure you had some choice things for him to say that God is attention. Is that fair? That's fair. I'm always very nice until and tell. Somebody becomes disrespectful with me, then I will communicate with you on your terms. There you go. Did you ever run into Larry Bird again? Nope. He's afraid to come back. I ain't coming back there. Hey, no. Hey, well, you showed up, you said like in June of 82. So about the academy, you know, how many people in there how many how many women? Because what is unusual 1982? And I remember that was actually the year of my first academy too. The state academy on the police department, very, very few women in law enforcement at that time. So why was Richmond going all the way up to Massachusetts to recruit people? Probably for the same reason as now. They couldn't get anybody to join. You know, high crime, low pay, not the best working conditions, some people are leaving in droves now. So they were doing a lot of recruitment from out of state. Gosh, I want to say three of my classmates were also from Massachusetts. We had some from New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Damn, can you imagine getting people with Massachusetts and New Jersey together and trying to understand what the hell they're saying? It'd be like if I had ten people from Tennessee and West Virginia and the academy class Murph, holy cow. Well, you'd have something then. 20 teeth, I'd have 20 teeth between the ten of you. That's what you're gonna pick up on. Language was a big barrier for me when I got here..

state academy on the police de Larry Bird Cheryl Massachusetts Richmond New Jersey Pennsylvania West Virginia Tennessee
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

04:11 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"You know, but location was good. The price was right. You know, no problem qualifying. Went down to the bank, got a $1000 loan and got my own apartment. Anyway, he one evening, I believe it was a Sunday. We were all doing our thing and hanging out, and we heard this noise down in the basement. And a couple of the guys grabbed baseball bats and of course I was right there with them. Like nah, you ain't going down there alone. I'm coming with you. And we found two guys drunk with cans of gasoline in the basement. Getting ready to start a fire. Ironically, we live right across diagonally across from a fire station. So, you know, we can fronted the landlord and call it the police and the whole bit. He sold the property to what we call a straw or another owner took it over on paper. I said, you know what? I'm not hanging out until this happens. What if he does this when we're asleep one night or what if this happened? I'm out of here. So I talked to my dad and I went to live with my dad's girlfriend who later became my stepmom back in Malden. Just till I could get up on my feet and get another apartment. You know, figure out what was going on. How old are you? How are you during this time, Cheryl? Oh, golly. I would say, it was 18 to 19. And you said you were in Len, Massachusetts at that time, right? Yeah. How big a town? How big of a town was land? When was a lot bigger than Malden, they used to say limb and the city is sin. You never come out the way you went in. Linda's pretty high crime, lot of drugs, some we had actually this is something that will stick with me forever. One of my dear classmates, somebody that I hung out with that I partied with in high school, apparently he had been seeing a biker's girlfriend, and they found Tim cut up in multiple plastic bags and the dumpster right by the fire station diagonally across from the apartment. I grew up in. The apartment I moved to, I will never forget the day they found him..

Malden baseball Cheryl Len Massachusetts Linda Tim
"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

01:55 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

"You're not on Patreon, obviously you need to be. Patreon dot com slash game of crimes. Normally, our narco meter when we do, we vote on our narco meter and we do our monthly live stream. That's usually reserved for what it is. It's for guardian of the realm and warden of the throne. But what we're doing is we're going to open up this month's narco meter and our live stream to everybody. Whether you're on Patreon or not, no matter what level you're at. We just want to show you guys what you're missing. And so we're going to do this on Facebook. It's going to be in our game of crimes just so that we give you the address, Facebook dot com slash game of crimes podcast. It's going to be you don't have to be a member of anything. It's free, you know, the page is free to join. That's where we're going to do it. We're going to do it Friday. Not Friday. Wednesday. Yeah. Wednesday, December 22nd at 8 p.m. eastern. Now, some of you guys out there get a little bit of confused. That's 8 p.m. Eastern Time. 7 central 6 mountain 5 Pacific. And I don't even know what time it is in Hawaii and if you're in hawai I don't want to hear from you anyway because it's actually even warmer and better than what it is in Florida. Jealous. Jealous. So remember this. Put it down on your calendars Wednesday. December 22nd, a date which will live in infamy. At 8 p.m. eastern, we're gonna be doing our live stream. Our review of.

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Game of Crimes

02:11 min | Last month

"nici" Discussed on Game of Crimes

Becoming Part of the UK EV Supply Chain

Electronic Specifier Insights

04:52 min | 11 months ago

Becoming Part of the UK EV Supply Chain

"We'll be speaking about the company's production techniques the benefits of using wise products and of course have the company's been adapting an pivoting during the covid nineteen pandemic so flip welcome to electric specified herein sites Coup think to kick us off. I think what will be good for. Our listeners is if you can give us a bit of background about track. Wise more what. The company does not on your involvement in the company. If the is so truck wise we were founded in nineteen eighty-nine nine designs limitation started as a printed circuit design. Bureau mood soon. Enough to manufacture and in the mid nineteen nineties was asked to make a nine foot lem prince a second vote and this very large nuts circuit was one of the la gsm gsm nine hundred by station at tennis. Oh the company in fell specialized in the manufacture of them not really really conventional printed circuit boards but products using printed circuit technology. In this case would some in it was printing on tennis again. These very large Up to sell to two point eight meters length so really for the last twenty five years. Tuck wise as making provincial infrastructure. Tata's for Industry in that has been a big big business loris. So i joined the business and we but that the company had this set had this manufacturing capability which was dead. The manufacturer Bodes my feeling. Was that if we could sell it to one. Then one company we will be able to sell it to others and i joined net. She pulled business internet in two thousand on that basis remote keble. Oh i second customer office. New custom was based in melbourne. Seth australia and we ended up in shipping tons and tons of products. That to let and it to melvin. Indem ultimately go to queens exploit that Interesting journey and but yeah so that. That's that's where we started from. And what's what would you say differentiates the flex circuits the track manufacture for mother. Fpdc's yup in kosovo am flexible printed circuits. As as a not a not a new technology was people making ftc's long before trackways was ever ever involved. Am what what we did was. We took a our existing large large format manufacturing capability and really develop it to be linked limited so that is a fundamental proposition to the mockus normally flexible printed second Size are typically six. Ten minutes is twenty four inches in length. There's a handful of people on the worldwide macy's who can make make larger boats tip avail to a certain size but really check wise offering is is length unlimited. So awhile back. The longest product we made was twenty five meters. We've made fifty meter long products. I'm damn nici this week about to launch into To making seventeen eleven product. You know so linson. Limited is a real proposition of the market. Yes i think. The graph on the track wise websites of highlighting a kind of the lengths that you guys can manufacturer as i write the case Whether liberals are going to get on this something needs pulse. I we're pretty proud of this technical ability. And it's his set me of his has gained some interest on the worldwide that we keeps promote that so much space thorough menu image. Coming them in the press. Explain a little bit more about the use of. Iht's the wiring harnesses soup today. I'd like to say it was a minute my class to teach it thinking. That was actually a an approach. Were originally buy royce. Aero-engines who looking for place the why hanis inside the aero-engines with flexible printed circuits in order to excite white and decide space because the aero-engines bake roughly eight meters the from fight to oversee the flexible printed circuits with a big rolls royce at hud. We made them met made big Badges that the reason we colder to improve thomas. Technologies is is the same reason the was originally. I'm originally developed spec in the middle of the century so that they do wolf a significant improvements conventional lot hanis

Seth Australia Tennis Tata Linson Melvin Kosovo FTC Melbourne Nici Macy Hanis Royce Thomas
Prof. John Flood, Professor of Law and Society at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia. - burst 01

Scientific Sense

59:58 min | 1 year ago

Prof. John Flood, Professor of Law and Society at Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia. - burst 01

"Welcome to the site of accents podcast. Where we explore emerging ideas from signs, policy economics, and technology. My name is Gill eappen. We talk with woods, leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest. Scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation. Be Color a wide variety of domains red new discoveries are made. and New Technologies are developed on a daily basis. The most interested in how new ideas affect society. And help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation. V seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations bit researchers and leaders who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot. com. And displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics, guests at other ideas. Please send up to info at scientific sense. Dot Com. And I can be reached at Gil at eappen. Dot Info. My guests today's facade John. WHO's professor of Law and society at Griffith University in Brisbane Australia. He's also adjunct professor of law at Queensland University of Technology and Research Associated University College Under Center for Blockchain Technologies, he who suggests on the Bloomberg professional globalization of law and the technology in law. But come John. Hello. Thank you. Sure. Yeah. So I want to start with one of your recent people, professions and expertise hog machine learning, and blockchain redesigning the landscape of professional knowledge and organization. In invite you say machine learning has entered the world of the professions. The different impacts automation will have huge impacts on the nature of work and society. Engineering architecture and medicine or early and enthusiastic adopters. Other professions especially law at late you say at in some cases with leptons adopters. could you talk about you know sort of the landscape all? Of Law, profession and. They today in terms of opting these technologies. Certainly Louis interesting because it's a very old profession is. Often considered one of the. Original traditional professions along with medicine and the church. And in a sense law has used different kinds of technology might say I mean does it? Based around writing. And then the printing press and So on yet that. It's always being based on a craft. A skill which the individual person is that enables them to do, whatever is quote if you like and. said, there's never been a lot of room for any kind of automation. Certainly, the has been space for using. A people who are not fully qualified as low as about as paralegals, people like that, who will do a lot of repetitive work document checking and things like that and so on. But what will get into now is the situation where automation through machine learning. There's other kinds of artificial intelligence. is able to start constructing documents example contracts. Check dollop a documents for particular clauses and things like that mature they're up to date and this incense is. Replacing now, the kind of work that noise will do. So I think in some ways more more of of the profession of law is gonNA be subject to automation, but distinction I would many because I think it's quite important here is that A lot of what lawyers do. Is actually quite. Active that that that that the drafting contracts overtime or or they're reviewing documents to some sort or another or they're getting through particular. Negotiation. And so you know a lot of it is the same, but they build up the expertise through doing these same kinds of were over and over again and What we're now finding is that instead of having young lawyers coming in and doing what you might call the grunt work of checking documents and going through discovery applications where he goes through the size boxes of evidence to decide. which are the appropriate documents you want the emails, the invoices order, this sort of stuff that is the kind of work which is lending itself to automation. And, and so that his taking away a lot of the work which is used for trading purposes with young lawyers and is just doing it much quicker. will quickly I mean More efficiently in many ways and probably expensive much much expensive a Lotta. This work is being outsourced to you know legal process outsourcing India or Philippines South Africa places like that. So yeah, that's that's right and so in some ways, the group of lawyers who do the work which requires the skill, the judgment. Is Reducing in some ways. That pool is getting smaller. Yeah Yeah it's it's interesting. The the distinction that you make between automation. And in my job and let's call it decision making right which is you know a lot of work in the business side of this. So for example. in the nineties in large pharmaceutical company So you think about you know rnd. People might think it has really complex selection of programs that design of them, portfolio management, risk management, all those decisions. Genuine companies be say well, senior managers with lots of experience and intuition make those decisions really well right and so that's statement would automatically implied that machines can really do much there. But what we find in the mid nineties says that is systematic analysis of data make those decisions. Don't better. Actually, I've Tom to humans humans. Always seem to make decisions. These are typically bonding the decision. So if you go back and look at it, alternative experiment has not been wrong. So we have no date to say it was a good decision at typically. So human scaffold, fifty percents of making good decisions So do you know just throwing a coin or letting monkey make those decisions so? Yup We found that even complex decision making that humans hold. you know close to their you know kind of domain I'm not necessarily. So we have machines That could do that much better than I. Don't know there's an analog of that in in law I I. Think The may be actually I mean Two three years ago the royal. Society in England decided to arrange a working party on machine learning. One of the things that they put together a a roundtable on machine learning professions resolved to talk about that night and I talked about the history of professions in technology and. and. I think one of the peculiar things that came out to in relation to law is that law. Has always been a sort of on its own. If you think about medicine, for example, medicines always had the teacher hospital institution that sort of straddles the academic quilt and the practice walls and brings those people together and as a result. INCORPORATES loss of, scientific, work. Engineering work as well computing work and things like that. And that's been the first teaching hospital king into existence in in the French revolution in Seventeen eighty-nine. A long history of that. If you look at law, there was nothing equivalent to that whatsoever and there is in fact, actually a big gap between what academy does on what the practitioners in your do so that As a result as before law has come to this a quite late but what we are. Finding I think is that Certainly the management consultancy finding is that because of the nature of a lot of what goes on in legal office a remarkable amount of it can be automated. So what we are getting now is companies setting themselves up to do this automated work. So. We have companies which do nothing but contract our instruction formation sort of company. The typical lawyer would would say to a client Do you WANNA contract classes. Yes I want this for this. And loyal galway draft contract back with it, and then in the con- comes back against as I need another contract, you go through the same process. which is good for the lawyer but not necessarily good kind. What we're finding now is the company's not can think of a few of them that will, in fact, go into the company's show order contracts. Let's see the entire. Corpus of contracts you've got there and they will analyze them. And basically say, all right. We can create a new contract in automated way fairly easily it may need some modification according to special circumstances but on the whole, it's fairly standard and and they can do that INNOVA systematic world meaning the contracts are reviewed that checked. If they're going to expire marketing, you want an unable just the system will cope with that if you're. Yeah. So yeah. No No. No so I was just going to say yes. So that the distinction you make, you know in terms education sort of systematic graduate level education that because as you say, it is low in one sense of soft proficient. You say in called professions like made it to text reengineering this team has a strong concern ensuring that expertise applied in the public interest when as low little bit different from from bad and economics in some sense sort of in the same same vein we have now made economics at really odd. of mathematics you know north of analytics there. Whether they are actually useful from policy making perspective is left to debate but at least it has been an attempt to make this make economic video hard. So so I don't know A. Fascination has been in in law I very much that will happen in law. Oh there things are beginning to happen I mean let me just boob. At. One example I learned in that workshop that I mentioned the Royal Society held. With somebody from the engineering profession talking about. The difference in skills between people who above forty I'm below forty he said. If he he was about Forty Years Austin design an aeroplane, takeout pen and paper Pencil, and paper and. I don't know anyone under forty could do that would know how to do that go onto a computer program undecided there. So you can see that the incorporation of technology into the academy through to the actual. Occupation. Than phones and things is is already a standard and they're in law. It isn't law. As you said, it's still very much a soft skill although I will argue that there is a difference between the way nor is viewed in different parts of the world. So in the United States A law is I think more tilted towards the sciences. So low in economics is one of the big things in the. US. So you got a lot of people working in the of lower economics who might go onto antitrust work no competition work and things like that which across a lot of economics, mathematics and Statistics and so on. In, say a Europe Australia and so on. Law is more allied towards the humanities. And the classics. So it doesn't have that kind of scientific underpinning in that way. So anything that's going to change in these parts if you like is going to be something that's going to be imported from outside. And is going to have a very dramatic impact when whether it does An and I think that's yet to happen. I don't think there's been sort of Cambrian explosion. If you like in in law, the will be one I'm sure but but law has an advantage over engineering economics or the other areas you might. That's With the nature of the rule of law and absent justice is since law as a a way of ordering society is absolutely crucial to everything else. Then, Law and lawyers will say will look you know we have a special status here is different amid leave engineer. We certainly want to make sure bridges stay up. We don't want down but we can design different kinds of bridges. We can design different kinds of legal bills, but they're also the fundamental rules If you want to you know if you're an engineering company and you want to build a bridge in a different country, you're going to have to do it on the basis of the legal rules, which will be just vise by the lawyers according to the country's there in so on. So in in that was what? I might put in a special category if you live. Yea. Yea. Let me let me push NBA John. So. The. The conference that you mentioned you know the Internet is under forty and engineers at. So so one could argue you know from an engineering perspective could argue e- It sexually dangerous. To not use machines to build aircraft the goes you know all the technology that cap today actually help us make the trap lot safer. granted. If you sit down with a blank sheet of paper and Pencil, you might get the principal right. But, but the technology has advanced so much that you really have to use. Technology to do so in some sense, engineering is pushed back. that. I argue this myself then they were naive engineering school. I had a V exposed at my daughter bent to school. She used the same physics book. Twenty, five. meter. I argue that that is sort of backward because data speed no need for an engineer to really learn Newtonian physics anymore because it is prescriptive, it's deterministic can make machines, learn it very quickly and so why spend all? Right. So so then you know if you think about the the law field. I wonder if there is a senior argument that is to say Dan and tape really good lawyer casts lot of intuitions dot expedients to crap something Contract or a discourse, but then maybe the machine scan actually do it even better We haven't really tested that hypothesis yet. Right be almost have this idea that humans are always dominant. Or machines but that the not be true as technology lancers. So what do you think about that in the in the? It's a very important point actually because the. American bosses. being modifying its ethical rules recently to say that lawyers have a duty and obligation to keep up to date with technology. So we already know the technology is now a an important part and I have to say when when I say the word technology, I mean this at all kinds of levels from what you can do with Microsoft word for example, it strays plug ins all the way up to artificial intelligence IBM, Watson, or something like that So that if if lawyers become. A. Uses of technology whether this small firms or big firms or what have you a under the Aba now they they actually have an obligation to make sure that they are up to date. They can't just say we didn't know what we were doing. So I think in that respect, there is a there was a move. The other move that is taking place is actually the push from from the clients. Now, this you have to look into ways one is with corporate clients. The corporation seen US lawyers have to use noise if you'd like want their work done. PHILOS- money on Chiba they wanted to more efficiently They don't want the best piece of work every time they want something that works and they want officiant. UTA A and so on. So it was interesting I think a few years ago. The General Counsel Cisco. Actually made a speech. Saying that he expected his. Lawyers Law firms who worked for the company to be reducing their fees year on year. Now, that's the opposite of what lawyers normally do, which is to raise them year on year. So say that that's one push which is. Very profound push now, coming from the client himselves who are using the beginning to use their procurement departments in in the companies and things like that to help purchase legal services the other aspects which is just as important in this is if you look at the role of lawyers and individuals. So if you is what access to to legal services, it's expensive lawyers are not cheap they charge our money We don't know how to judge the quality of their work and so on. because. There was a credence which we just know that So. On this is where technology can begin to step in and provide services which are. Efficient and often quite. what very well for the individual saying that this. Technology can be seen to be improving access to justice a Lotta people. Yeah. Yeah yes. I want to come back to this. John. I think this is a very important point. So bent on put has a lot of uncertainty. Uncertainty maybe not not the right term, but it's called deterministic. It shows beatty ability and so the determination of quality it's not as easy as hard media India nearing or. Right business economics legal all sorts of well foreign that category and the application of technology sort of a different different meaning there but I want to touch on one of the things that you say in the paper, and that is you mentioned this before and that's about training training the next generation. So you savior regulating bodies professions are involved in the collection and reproduction of knowledge intended to be used by the entire body professionals, and so there was an expectation here that you know seeing it professionals. Is Providing the wisdom that knowledge mission to train the next generation now in a technology driven. regime. discuss vacations right. Our expert is going to be a computer engineer in the future. And so so how does that work from from cleaning and knowledge Asian will I think this is This is a crucial issue in it's one which the profession hasn't. Really. Got To grips with yet I think because you think of technology in terms of Predictive analytics a document review and things like this most law schools are not preparing students for this they may be a a a a causal to on some aspect of technology, but it's not something which lawyers themselves are learning. So I think what is going to happen is we're going to find a blending of skills occurring. So law firms will be sense having to bring in a range of technologists who perhaps have. A scales a straddle, both sides of the lines, the lawyers like this too I think I think we're going to find an avangard Who will begin to develop skills that allow them to talk to both sides of the line, the tech people and? Below people if you likes and there will be people who will acquire develop these skills as well but that's that's still some way down the line I didn't think we're anywhere near there yet, and part of the reason for that I think is that you know law is still a very highly regulated profession and and the regulators themselves are in the same situation they are unsure about what is going to happen and they also feel they have an obligation to. Not only ensure that. Customers clients and consumers are protected but in some ways, the profession is protected to if you like so. You know it's it's a it's a fine balancing. There I. Think. It's a fight balancing act and you'd say if the changing changing things. So going back, you know you care as an individual eighteen status of expert. Some form of encapsulation of knowledge and analysis occurs enabling professional experts, derived diagnoses, decisions, and conclusion wrapped late. and you make some distinctions. Type of learning that. Human? Beings. That the distinction between doing drive and become a gift and laster Yes yes. Yes I think that's important. So the the the the principle behind this is that Individuals can acquire a lot of knowledge in in various areas. So as I say learning how to drive a car, you learn how to change gear you though with the speeds. Braking different rates, conditions, and things like that. So. If you WANNA take that further and become a formula one drive or something like that. Then you have to undergo a very different kind of training and that kind of thing becomes a lot more collective rather than individual because you start to you're you're going to be in a group that is gonna be doing a particular kind of our driving. If you like everybody in the group has to understand what each other is doing that group, you can't have people going right a racetrack at two hundred miles an hour or thinking individually feel like they have to have a collective consciousness. About. How to drive in that situation? That's nothing like how? You and I might drive. I'm not saying we bad drivers just saying spreading very different. So I think professional work is not. That different from this in a way. So once you you can go through school and you can do your law degree and you can learn your low. We can learn you engineering's this applies to or professions really. But in order to become a professional in order to become somebody who can operate function within that. Group if you like you then have yourself have to develop collective consciousness and and one way of thinking about it is that we we can kind of tacit knowledge. This assorted knowledge you learn on the job from people, which is not always articulated in a precise formulate kind way but it's something you pick up from the way. Somebody does something you just recognize aw that that's how they've done that might not be. Written down anywhere or anything like that. But you know that's different from now exiting differently from the way that wise doing I think X.'s doing it better I and you and you just, and you can absorb that. That's what I mean by this kind of tacit knowledge and that comes about from the professional context. As how the professional context develops becomes absolutely crucial to how you introduce new ways of doing things new my daddy's new skills new outlooks if you like and I. Think this is where we're on the cost of of this beginning to develop I mean we we know it's got to be done quite how it's going to be done. is yet to be. So. So let me make a statement John and I want I want your reaction to it so eat in hard sciences eight years against again medicine. Expertise has about a consistent happy of remorse. Whereas enor- economics and business in general, let's say expertise is not about the ability to apply rules but to deal with. and at and if that is true, it has lot of implications rate. It has implications as to how we might divide work. Between. And machine in the future. And the skills that universities need to impart on on on new graduates are also quite different. So I always argued in the business. engineering contexts that universities having changed the dog they get mentioned before they're using the same. Using the same. Out Thirty four years without asking the question are those skills relevant, anymore or more importantly watch. Really relevant for a human being in the future rate. do you agree with that that expertise assert more about dealing exceptions apply? Putting it actually. I. I can see the logic behind what you. Saying I think what distinguishes? A good professional whether it's a good engineer good architect or good lawyer or doctor is is somebody who has a certain? This may sound strange but it's the. Imagination. Creativity. about. Kind of flare that allows them to function on the nausea they they've got and developed over the years and the experience. Gathered from Nova pitching what they'd be doing over the years and so on, and it allows them to see around things in ways which they perhaps would. I can give you an example if you like a law. So I'm in in Germany and some other countries. For example, there's a particular way of bundling together mortgage securities I I won't go to detail about this, but this statute that enables you do it. And then you can sell these securities and get money. In certain countries, the UK, the US, and so on. This, NICI. So in a sense to put this kind of a a deal together it. Couldn't be done if you live. So a bank came to one of the large English law firms and said, look we wanted we want to replicate this in in the UK, want to set a market this we're not the statues off there. What can you do and what was interesting was that the law firm then went back to first principles lawyers who were looking at this went back I suppose they looked at some vape basic areas of law matter your trust. And contract from what have you? I'm from that they constructed elite supplement that looked very much like the one in Germany, but without stat sheet and they tested it and it worked. Out To be credibly successful. So much so that the German government started German legal profession started to complain because they said. You can only do this by statute and these we find a way of doing it three. I suppose using law and there it is an they were vowed shops by but that was a particular example if you like of of what you were talking about, they took the exceptions they went back to first principles and said you know or How would we get? This is where we gotta get to, and this is a way right at the beginning what are the steps we need to take and and? And that's what a good loyal will do if you. Right right? Yeah. So that's very important point. So you in your paper dawn as the DREYFUSS and rice note that the proficient performer immersed in the world of skillful activities sees what needs to be done. But decides how to do it. So as we move into a and other technologies, I think it's important point it is. Right from Dad benefactor culture we have been using humans as you mentioned before in lots of with meted activities big not designed for humans I would I would contend enjoy doing things over and over again, and if you had thought of doing that, yeah, because they have to do it for living right and so so we should be moving to word It would where anything that is with pita on delegated to the machine at automation in the bottom of that and Appealed autonation you can have intelligent automation you can have you know reinforcement learning those types of things you have some aspects of intelligence into the into the two. And deploy humans Don't Miss. They're really good at in some case. I'm. So you know we've been studying the green for ages be our no close. It feels to understand mother. Heck it does You know it's not neat learning it. Oh, BBC of. thirty years ago as see that person again, you could see you could you could have a feeling. Then you've seen that before and and what the brain has done actually not only as he that pattern but also age that matter intuitively for thirty years and say, yes, that face I, guess before. and. So there are some superpowers the brain has reaped have been applying the all all. So for a technology might allow. Look I. Think Technology will allow us to incredibly complex things without having to think about too much I. Mean if you look at the way a port functions, for example, any major port these days they've got millions of containers and ships going through them all the time. So there's a lot of paper going through the you those charter parties, bills of lading guarantees. So the lot of legal work that's being done it, it's all quite standard stuff. I mean everybody. KNOWS, what needs to be done and so on. Now, some people are beginning to think while the best way to handle a port if you like I for everybody should know is to put everything that's going on in the poor into a blockchain so that you can see the whole supply chain. You see when something comes in, you can determine when the goods are being offloaded. When they're being shipped, you can stop making the payments as a result of the. Operation of the smart contracts if you like, and the whole thing would be just one quite seamless. In some ways without that much human intervention really just need oversight Some bits of coordination so on. But at the moment is still a a lot of humans are vote in that shipping people, law people, all sorts of things which is. I think insane. That's a waste of resources. We know that there are people who have all kinds of problems that require that creative flair she like as so why waste money on the routine stuff when you could develop skills to the the real need if you like in that way? Yeah Yeah. So I, want that some that bit that John Blockchain, for example, as you mentioned. So so one reason especially in the professions like law and business humans have an advantage justice dimension of trust. and you know at least our generation we don't really. At eighty level, right. So so having that. Human human touch is still extremely important for us. Now, technologies like Blockchain, for example, actually allows that trust to be tensely decoupled, right? Yeah, and I think I think you're right. Look I. Think I mean one of the reasons we make contracts is because We, don't trust each other. So we we devised these documents with all the conditions in them. Something goes wrong. This is what will happen things like that and so on. What are the interesting things? You know people really rely on contracts are met you. You draw up a contract. And the to business people stick him in the drawer I never look at again less something really really fundamental goes wrong but they know sumit doesn't that never look at that again. So you say value of the contract, what did it actually do if you look at some of the Asian countries say like Taiwan or parts of China, you have a assistant coach Guanxi, which is where people developed effective relationships by knowing each other over a period of time around business that allows them to develop trust it. So You know there are different ways of of handling trust, but we we seem to spend a lot of time on trying to minimize something You know which we don't really do a lot of if you like. So I think one of the advantages of of blockchain is that it just it removes a lot of this from from the equation if there's certain things you know that can happen. as a result off if this thing that systems. Lead happened And you know. As, long as you've got oversight and you can see what's going on than. You don't need to be too concerned about it. It will just do what it needs to do in that way and So. Again. That's still very much in the early stages, but we are seeing situations where supply chains A shipping goods from one country to another can actually be done under smart contracts through a blockchain. Technology if you live. That that is now happening I associate goodful dealing with things like gum counterfeiting if you're. Producing. Particular high-quality could site move our phones or particular pharmaceutical products and so on you know it's one way of guaranteeing the quality of the product is you couldn't I say look you can examine the whole supply chain or the data is there. And you know his Eq- code look at it and you get the whole thing going all the way back The. Again, issues around that if you're dealing with the digital. Is Much easier once you start dealing with physical products then you have. A question of how do you get that first initial digitization of the physical if you'd like to goes on so though some people I know here in Australia who? Run A company called Beef Ledger, which is trying to export beef straight beef to China using the blockchain supply chain, which will. Guarantee the security, and the quality of the goods to the Chinese consumer APP because having problems with this before. But I will tell you now do doing something like that does require that the people you are dealing with. You're going to set this up with You have to have a trusting relationship with you before you can set up a technology that will do away with the So we're still in that. That's really early days. I think another a lot of time way to go right Yeah, but the technology works it. Clean potential one could argue contracts exist because they probably known performance if you have a technology that drives that probably the of non-performance zero, then you can actually get rid of for contract. Yeah limit. It is. Not. Goes back to that earlier point I made that. Most most contracts are fairly standard. You know a routine things they're there to. Record a series of transactions payments that have gone on between people without the to do much. If you like you know once you you're you're doing the business, the contract just kind of records that in perpetuity. So the small contract just takes that into a different area and an an actually does the whole implementation and execution without people to be involved in that too much and there's something goes wrong. But if it if it all goes right then back it is done you need to you don't you think about it Right. Yeah. Hasn't been jumping to another are forthcoming people globalization law at. A time of crisis in the? Global Lawyer and so in the say Nikolai Condom Nieve a Russian economists in the nineteen thirties believed the worst economy operates long sixty year cycles Then he called K. Braves. And you safeguarding coronavirus analysis, the fifth psycho young's from nineteen eighty to twenty thirty. It's you save twenty, nineteen forthcoming John You might have. I think so I think say because I, tell you off the what's happening this year I thought my good I couldn't My God. I was just. Owners because you know a contract device these waves up into into what he calls four seasons spring summer or winter at, and we're in the winter off this fifth cycle if you like this is. All the bad stuff happens and he's news war. Famine Disease I think wait a minute that sounds Yes yes. That's exactly right. A. But one of the interesting things about contractors was that you know he he a because he's A. Solid economists are installing a dip executed. By the way you know he he got fed up ninety that was the end of Nikolai unfortunately but he. He said instead of know if you like the ownership of the means of production are being the determinate for changeover from system system, he said it's it's technology and and that the technology will drive you out of the downswing of the last cycle into the upswing of the new cycle, and and the way that works is the win. You're in this kind of winter period because of the kind of economic. Gloom pervades if you like people tend to hold back in subsurface vestment in terms of technological innovation of what have you and so a lot of energy resources, resources, money capital if you like builds up to a second point when people say we're GONNA go for this is this is it? And that's when if you like technology comes to the fall on, really drives it forward. So from that perspective, what he's saying is that you know come right about twenty thirty. If. Things are going slowly now regarding technology they're going to speed up. In. This period and that's when it will. You know really also take take off and people have looked back over our preceding cycles and they've you know it works if you like not just their. Fantasy theory there are also the people who do Cleo dynamics in history these the quantitative historians and they've done a similar kind of analysis of historical periods and said, yeah, you know there are all these citrical. Processes that take place even revolutions occur and big upset occurs and what have you and and. One of their Perspectives which I find quite interesting is that they say one of the reasons for revolutions come about is caused a lease beginning to compete with each other and and an an I look at say trump in in America and I look at the Democrats and I I I would say Modine, India I look she in China and different groups of elites who are engaged really profound struggle for the future of their countries if you live. Out which again is leading to this kind of potential eruption of activity and a new ways of doing things. Yeah. It makes a lot of intuitive sense gone. So one way to think about this also. There are a lot of excesses. So innovating go good their excesses in the system people to believe that invincible they changed assumptions about. because they don't see any. and. Financial markets to right. So these cycles and real real mass that uniquely talking about you can see the. Happening in the financial markets more clearly. But what he's saying is that he happens mortgage and you ask in this paper in two thousand, nineteen for in many ways go. Crystallization off the settling ketone economic forces lost throat ear Kublai doomed as populous. Separates nationalism and lead clients and I think they have that we have probably the answer to that. But you see I think. One of the points I was trying to make an in in this paper walls that Global Law. If you like is is, is the a kind of synthesis off chaos? How do we bring some kind of order to chaos now once you start seeing the undermining? Of his global institutions, you see trump was withdrawn from the W. H. O.. He's he's are criticized NATO he he won't have the do with the International, Criminal Court and so we've got this kind of real life tension now between a an international legal order that's being built up since the Second World War both Ekit economic and legal order is Global And so we can't just a radical globalization I mean even even with covert, we can't eradicate mobilize ation we've got to. Handle covert the Kobe pandemic on a global basis. Otherwise, we'll. We're lost it retreats to a national. Approach is not gonNA. Work? We'll be defeated in that race is going to be global. Might. Be One of my questions in in paper was will who are the people who are going to be doing this? Kind of bringing the the order to chaos if you like and that made argument that it's got to be the global lawyer. And this is a person who not only understand their national legal system but also able to communicate with lawyers and officials. From around the world if you like. To be able to develop a kind of common. Language common discourse that enables them to stop putting these things together are, and it's not just a simple massa of saying mathematically, it works this way or not. It requires the kind of pulling together of people, but it requires that sort of common understanding which. Comes out of what I was saying about this idea of testing knowledge you know as you got this kind of professional consciousness you know how people ought to behave and how they will interact with you, and then that enables you to be out of bizarre to predict how you can do things and so on and so on. That basis I think we can operate kind of global order. It had a a below the institutional level if you're not kind of private. As opposed to the public according and that will put three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you know I the limit John I don't know if you think this way I limit one could as. Want to stay need for. Countries what does the need for legal system differentials? We set this up with the premise that it's easier to manage small chunks. one could also argue with Edmund Affect. -nology that you don't need to segment this debate that we have done. which might make these types of issues you know. See where you're coming from and I'm going to say yes or no? Yes, I think the home range of of questions that can be handled by the technology the ones we got pay I don't chain, etc. I don't I didn't see any issues there but there are a lot of decisions that needs to be made a book in terms of putting things together and resolve disputes that can only function at a human level because it's not. These are not decisions that are simple binary decisions. If you'd like, it's yes or no it's it's often a lot more nuance than complex about I mean, one of the resources in the World Kiva Zero System, the world amendment which is being fought over if you like is water, a water is probably one of the most valuable resources anywhere and it's you often find that rivers and things like that sort of flow between countries, they form borders. And and you are you know people if you look at the Nile, ESL start stopping in Sudan throwaway down to the Mediterranean. So he goes to countries all three countries, east European and then into Egypt's and so unwell well, who has the right to put it dime at a particular place and things like that all of that has to be cooled in act. You see a not going to be done at a human level that that's what caused the skills in negotiation judgment interpretation understanding if you like of the other people, no machine can do that I got. Yes before we conclude, I want to touch on one other thing So in the paper, you say as technology and culture intersect more and more. Ethical conundrums will intensify these raising questions about the rights and obligations of robots. And go beyond as moves. Three laws of robotics in two issues of rights of all moon. Algorithm, stem serves. So this is this is an area that be Kevin babies even even really form some notions allowed rights of all modes at rights of a are. Sai, gets more sophisticated. Yes. Yes. I do. I, mean I think this is one of the issues we already know some of the problems with algorithms and and you know can we can be are they transplanted from you see what's going on the ethical issues around the construction and implementation of algorithms and things like that. But I I I think looking into the future we all going to rely on things like robots. And various kinds of machines so much more so that if you look at a country like Japan, which is a a an aging population such that it doesn't have sufficient younger people to look after the people who need looking often. So machines, I'll be part of that, and that means people will stop forming real relationships with machines and and so that's when I would say. Okay. So let's think about how we View a potential rights of machine that we give. We give rise to humans. Yes. We know that we give rights to animals. Now we've also given rights to viz in forest in some countries as well as so machines I think our. Next logical step you know do we do we treat them with respect Let me give you one. Very classic example yet the production of. Robots for sex if you like is a major industry at the moment, some manufacturers say they want to program them say that people can act out rape fantasies will do we want that I? Mean you know should we be at first of all? You know? We should be having people behave in this particular kind of way, but even an uncertain if you do it against another human being, you'll be punished for it and you say we'll a machine is a piece of property you should be you should be doing that but I'm getting to think that maybe a machines should be treated with dignity say that we are treat ourselves with. Dixie. This a kind of reflexive situation here what we? Do to machines we do to each other, and they may again due to US depending on how they evolve and and move forward in that way is a very contentious issue. A lot of people would reject that right out of hand I agree I think we've got to stop thinking about stop dining forward because I. think we're going to at some point again. I. Don't know when. But at some point we will be having to deal with that. It's a it's a very important point. Joan. So if I understand you correctly, you know that the rights to animals the rights to inanimate. INANIMATE things like Lubers The recent those exist is because of its effects on humans and can see video a clear link in the future we would see a very clear link between a algorithms and robots ended affects on human. So this is not me You know each not fantasy in the sense that yeah, robots should have rights, but rather it's a more conceptual question. Any fraud did not have rights each going to cabin negative I I think that's absolutely true. I mean just to highlight that if you like this firm called Boston Dynamics that produces. Robots and they produced these videos of these. Now, these robots are resistant being pushed over and things like that, and it was quite interesting because a lot of people say all you can't treat them in this way. This is awful and so what I mean that that's the answer for more fighting to to the extreme extent. But it I think you know on the basis what you're saying, you know how we Oakland. Hold human beings accountable to each other in an increasingly complex world machines have become part of that. We can't just have them all sitting on the edge as though they're not part of who we are, what we are and how we do things. Right. So. Incursion Johnny fuel sort of look forward five years. At. The intersection of law and technology. But you think people see sort of the biggest. I. Think you'll see it two wins. On the you know for the individual The individual, you're going to see a lot of them just interacting. With artificial Tennessee, say lost questions about what my rights for this how do I deal with a tendency agreement? How do I complain against a producer company or something like that or that's going to be automated? is fairly straightforward to do and and it will only need A. Minimal. Amount of human inside of. An intervention if you like. At the other end at the. In I think we're GONNA see more and more technology coming in because as those basic functions that are. Being, carried out by junior people or or paralegals or things like that are the ones which are going to be increasing, automating creasing. I'm. We will replace the humans and just let machines do that because there's no point in wasting human resources on that whether that means we need fuel or more lawyers That's an open question I think it will that we need different kinds of lawyers We will need Roy Moore to logically aware much more sophisticated. They don't it's be programmers or odors or anything like that, but they need to have a quite a a a a strong understanding and gross what's going on in technology in that way if you like so. Yeah. We can definitely see an. Yeah, so I, think you mentioned the so from a structure perspective in all forum DC law firm sprucing to word. It a group of equity partners. Around it by machine so to speak well, I. Think. I was in that paper or another one I. I'm S-. Forecast. Law. Firms. Being. Distributed decentralized we'll tournaments organizations running on a blockchain with with the various people. into setting when they will no I. Think the law firm is still a very strong and powerful is Shutian, that's not gonNA disappear straight away. But certainly the numbers of partners who control things will shrink. They'll that will get smarter as proportion and yes, they will be surrounded by machines and they surrounded by people who are servicing those machines. Your excellent. Yeah. Thanks for doing this weekend. John really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very much. It's been great fun and very

Policy Technology Economics Science Blockchain John Gill Eappen Eappen Queensland University Of Techn Blockchain Technologies Australia Griffith University India United States German Government Innova Bloomberg Inflammation Royal Society Brisbane John Blockchain Chiba
"nici" Discussed on KNST AM 790

KNST AM 790

02:23 min | 3 years ago

"nici" Discussed on KNST AM 790

"Official election-related mailings. I'm Don Nici KFI AM seven ninety Tucson's. Most stimulating talk. Gas every time you puff. Drive. You have to get gas right yet. Download the free get upside in pay less for gas than everyone else. JJ say twenty five cents a gallon. Every time you fill up use promo code four bonus twenty cents a gallon up. So forty five cents a gallon on your first fill up get upset. Get upset. That's promo code Bank, promo code. Why are you still paying full price for gas? That's crazy yet. Download the upside app right now. And save up to twenty five cents a gallon cashback every time you use promo code Bank for an extra twenty cents a gallon up so forty five cents a gallon cash back on your I fill up the free. Promo code bake. Got it good. Fisher investments, clearly better money management. Investments? Insecurities involve the risk of loss. Visit us at fisherinvestments dot com to find out what we can do for you. Does windows and doors? Window. Hey, Tucson, you spend hours looking through the windows in your home. But have you ever really looked at them? Like how attractive are they do they offer safety and security, and here's a big one. Are they energy-efficient well, John window and door looks very closely at windows, and they've got windows, it can cut your energy bills in half decorator windows for every look and windows that offer superb safety and security Tucson window indoors Tucson's premier window replacement company, and they know windows, let Tucson window and door give you a free, no obligation estimate. Just call to nine eight door to nine eight door. Call now and see how beautiful secure and energy efficient. Your windows can be live more comfortably in your own home. Call to nine eight the OR today, so much more just windows and doors window Endo. Visit Tucson window and door dot com. From the.

Tucson Don Nici Fisher investments JJ Official Endo John
"nici" Discussed on KNST AM 790

KNST AM 790

02:02 min | 3 years ago

"nici" Discussed on KNST AM 790

"It's our job is to cut through the talking points. Martha McCallum we're going to ask the tough questions because there's a lot of conventional wisdom out there that needs to be challenged human breathe. What I'm doing is making sure that whatever is developed through the day. People are fully informed from coast to coast. We're twenty four seven news. But really down to the minute. We're going to be fearless. We're going to be fair. Whether it's for AM midnight were there, Fox News channel real news. Real honest opinion. Arizona politicians are surprisingly mixed in their reaction to President Trump state of the union address. I'm Greg Paul. Kane is t- news Republican congressman Andy Biggs felt the president has made significant progress and keeping his promises to the American people democratic congressman Ruben guy is not as enthusiastic he calls the president's border wall. A ridiculous monument to division and hate most of the female democratic lawmakers wore white in honor of the one hundred anniversary of women getting the right to vote women's suffrage, but Arizona Senator Kirsten cinema war hot pink. The Arizona department of transportation is expanding a program that says makes our roads safer while boosting the state's economy. Eight Tom Herman says under the international border inspection qualification program. Inspectors go to Mexico to give trainings on how to prepare a truck for inspection in Arizona. He says that encourages those truckers drive through the state and spend money while they're here. You have all of the businesses across the state that support the trucking industry from. Tires to guess, a lean to mechanics, they all benefit when they're more trucks that come in Arizona. He says the three year old program has also made inspection requirements uniform at all ports of entry that seven ninety K NASD's, Don Nici reporting, and after administrators told students they wouldn't provide a venue because of religious differences in a high volume of rhetoric. Grand Canyon university is now extending an invitation to conservative Ben Shapiro to come speak on campus later this year. That's according to a statement released by the Phoenix based Christian university university administrators say the invite will have Shapiro come visit sometime in the spring..

Arizona president Arizona department of transpor Martha McCallum Ben Shapiro Tom Herman congressman Fox News Grand Canyon university Ruben guy Phoenix based Christian univer Greg Paul Andy Biggs Don Nici Senator Kirsten Mexico Kane NASD seven ninety K three year
Senator Jeff Flake, Don Nici And Senate discussed on Garret Lewis

Garret Lewis

00:16 sec | 3 years ago

Senator Jeff Flake, Don Nici And Senate discussed on Garret Lewis

"Jeff flake is saying farewell. I'm Don Nici S T, news, Republican Arizona, Senator Jeff flake is giving his goodbye speech this morning in the US Senate flake did not seek reelection at his term is ending. He'll be replaced by democrat

Senator Jeff Flake Don Nici Senate United States Arizona