20 Episode results for "Newshour"
Trial To Begin: Did Exxon Mislead Investors On Climate Change?
"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races other things are fast like xfinity X. by get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply World Walmsley N._p._R.. News General Eric Schneiderman told PBS Newshour how its investigation could lead to legal action. There's nothing wrong with with advocating for your own company which you're not allowed on mobile arguing that it defrauded the public for years by misrepresenting how carbon regulation would affect the company's financial outlook the case goes back to two thousand fifteen by anti fossil fuel activists the company says it was honest with shareholders about how it calculated carbon costs if x loses it could be vulnerable to a string of lawsuits and others been intensive Canadian Oil Sands Project some investors worried won't make financial sense under tougher climate regulations and while the details get a little wonky this is sued and more cities and states are doing the same thing they're trying to hold oil companies accountable for climate change. NPR's Laura Walmsley has story New York's Attorney General is suing Exxon Mobil goes on trial in New York today the state says it misled shareholders about the risks that the company faces from climate change it's a civil lawsuit states that's because it had to give New York thousands of pages of documents and now lawsuits elsewhere will be able to use what comes out in the trial to build their own arguments law the Martin Act it's the same law that's been used by previous attorneys general in the state to bring charges against big financial firms there's not a general law for better or worse against when reports found that while Exxon scientists were inwardly researching climate change to planets operations the company was outwardly casting doubt on global warming then New York attorney as with potentially big consequences this is the first case on alleged securities
I'm a Penguin Counter for God's Sake!
"Uh-huh. Support for the outside in podcast comes from you our listeners and the New Hampshire department of agriculture markets and food summers, the perfect time for you and your family to pick your own fruits and veggies at farms across the state from juicy strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries to ripe tomatoes. Cucumbers, eggplants summer squash, and more make delicious memories from the farm to your kitchen table. You can find local pick your own farms farmer's markets fairs and more near you is in the directories at visit N, H dot gov slash agriculture. You know what I met a guy he goes and Arctic every year? I think we can get our bosses to agree to let us go. It was like a it was like a dream come true. I loved it. It always comes down to I think we can let our convince our bosses to let us go right? Meet William Brang. Yeah. My name is William bringham. I'm correspondent, at the PBS NewsHour, and team of intrepid producers recently got to take the trip of a lifetime the type of trip that I imagine you must imagine the glamorous life of journalists must be chock full of, there's no place like this on earth. It's blue ocean towering cliffs of white glaciers, huge craggy mountain peaks. This team from the PBS NewsHour put together a four part podcast series called the last continent, which is full of surprises. And interesting facts about a place that really is one of the world's biggest mysteries. The thing that I found most striking and again, I knew this going in, but you only you only sense it when you're there for a period of time, which is that there is really no human infrastructure on the entire continent. And this is a massive piece of land, and we're talking about the US and Mexico combined, as a landmass covered almost ninety five percent with thick sheets of ice as you're traveling around, you just realize that humans mean almost nothing here, the whole series is worth checking out includes the story of the discovery of the continent. And this is the only for, which that is inaccurate term as well as the latest on what the science says about Antarctica's ice sheets. But also, did you know that it's currently in the midst of tourism? Mm boom, you know, fifty thousand people a year are now going there. That's a record each year sets a new record for the number of people. You might think thousand people, it's not that many people, I disagree. I would that was a mind blowing fact for me is that right? But today because who can say, no, we are sharing story. They did about penguins. Enjoy. We're on couvert Ville island on the Antarctic peninsula, standing smack dab in the middle of a bustling colony of gen to penguins. It's like a little penguin Times Square a dozen or so stand along the beach. Dozens more are waddling up and down the steep hill, above us struggling to stay upright on their little orange feet at both ends of the beach, hundreds are packed together sitting in the sun on their homemade rocky nests. This is industrial scale penguin life. But for Ron navene it's just another day at the office thing. This seventy three year old white-haired white-bearded man is walking gingerly on the rocks. He's got an old fashioned clicker counter in his hands, and he's doing what he's been doing for almost forty years counting penguins. Oh, hi, buddy. Back in the nineteen eighties. Ron created an advocacy group called ocean ID's its mission is to track and monitor the three main species that live here. Gone through all kinds of rations in my life being a lawyer an expedition tour leader. I keep winding-up up watching birds. I can't believe that I have the best job on the planet, right? Well, I'ma penguin, counter for God's sake can feed that can. No, I don't think you can. From the PBS NewsHour. This is the last continent of four part journey to Antarctica. I'm William Bram. Over the decades that you've been coming here counting all these birds. Do you have any sense of, of cumulative number how many things you've actually counted? It's an unbelieving difficult question. It's like asking me, how many times crossed Drake passage. I don't know undoubtedly hundreds of millions, Ron, mostly works here on the peninsula, which is the eight hundred mile long stretch of land off the continents northwest corner. He studies gen twos which are the size of upright. Football's white on the belly black on the back orange on the beak. The other penguins, are Adeli's and Chinstraps booth a little smaller than the gentiles, Adeli's are known for the distinctive white ring around. There is shin straps. Get their name for the little black line running across their faces inside kind for us to just sit down. I do this all the time. I mean these are the most glorious creatures on the planet teaching meal, but the really funny, they're like, little Caesar walling around all the time, they look kind of silly and all that stuff. But they're just cute as hell. And I love spending time watching their behaviours Ron's. Right. When they're tottering around on land balancing their two wings, the flightless penguins, kind of out of place, so they get their head and kind of get used to the water temperature whatever and then under the arms round the foot. Vers boom the minute the birds enter the water. They transform instantly into the most incredibly fast. Aero dynamic acrobatic, swimmers go underwater. Susan's. It's incredible literally fine underwater. Jin twos can reach twenty two miles per hour underwater, Michael Phelps, he tops out at six. Ron's watch these birds swim like this million times before, but standing with him on this beach. You'd think this was his first time could watch this all day. Here's my colleague on this trip, Emily Carr PO describing wrong when you see him he seems so awkward in kind of like a little bit silly. And then you hear talking about penguins and the things he's passionate about, and it's just like his exceptional intelligence comes through. And it kind of reminds me when penguins are on land, they look like they do not belong there, and they're not prepared to dealing with heartland, and then the minute they get into water. You're like, oh, that's what they're meant for. This guy's going crazy. Back and forth and back and forth. Well, I used to think that if I was granted superpower that flying might be what it is. But I'm starting to think now that maybe to be able to swim like gin to might be top of my list. I I'm right there with him. And they are really, really incredible. And each penguin colony. They've visit run and his colleagues are trying to make a literal headcount of the birds. How many adults? How many chicks? How many eggs? They're building a year by year census of the penguins. Given that the birds can move around to be as accurate as possible. Ron and his team divide areas into rough grids and count the areas as quickly as possible. So dues head up to the high ridge and work down to the snow. The snow comes in you'll be going up the side here, and we'll right at the top by the time you get that. That's grant Humphreys, he's a seabird biologist who's working with Ron on this trip. He's a big burly bearded guy from Newfoundland and Arctic penguins are just unbelievable animals. You know, they've been around for sixty million years, basically two degree in the same form that you're seeing them. Now. I mean you see them here sitting on the rocks. They look like rugby balls. No. They just. They just don't look like they're made for anything. And here we are on top of this, this hill here they've come up from the water and hiked up through deep snow up over the raw all that to get up here and it's not like they have hands. I mean, they're clawing and. And fighting their way up it is spectacular. How hardy these animals are? We'll have no shoes on or hiking poles and all that. And we'll stream on up to the top of the mountain they get up there. And these guys are beating us. They're just. You know, on freaking believable. But yeah, I mean, they are that no doubt. But just like they don't tell you how rough the seas will be on your way, Antarctica, nobody really tells you how bad these penguin colonies, smell the term of art for penguin poop is guano, but that does not do it Justice. It's everywhere caked on the rocks all over our boots permeating our clothes. It smells awful. Here's Emily again. And our other colleague, Mike, Fritz in what's funny is I don't think that I had any idea of just how much there would be, and then how they would kind of wear it himself with dignity. I mean, they would just kind of have it on their chest naked, really. If anyone is see those pictures of the penguins, and you see, they're sort of read or, or white splotches over their chest. It's not mud. It's. It can be a difficult life here for the penguins while it's summertime now in a balmy. Twenty degrees Fahrenheit winters are five below zero with fierce winds. And there's predators everywhere big gray seabirds called schools circle. Overhead constantly, always ready to dive down and gravity. Schick or warm egg in the seed, or the penguins, spend most of their lives. There's killer whales and leopard seals, in fact, grant spotted one when we were on cougville islands leopard seal right now. Cruising towards us summer underwater said came up a few minutes ago, possibly hunting, which would be very, very cool hunting, our little Jen to friends hunting, our little Jen to friends, and then ripping him to shreds goal is to actually skin, the bird because they don't want to eat the feathers and skin. It's not so not so delectable as the enters, and they'll thrash, thrash, them until basically. All you're left is a muscular figure of penguin floating in the water. And then they'll start ripping into it. It's very, very violent very bloody this. So primal. It's been like this for the penguins from Eleni a-, and they've survived and thrived. But now, human induced climate change is also transforming the antibiotic peninsula and Ron and other researchers believe it's taking a toll on the penguins for decades. This region has been one of the fastest warming spots in the world right here in the NRT peninsula. There's been a warming trend over the last six decades or more. It's actually the most amount of warming on the plan that other than in the high Arctic right here, right here, and it's dramatic. It's three degrees centigrade, five degrees Fahrenheit on a year round basis. And at the same time certain penguin colonies have also been hit hard. I also because of the coming here for so long, I've seen these changes seen the penguin populations that certain colonies thin out, pretty dramatically one colony that we studied at deception island is gone from a niche. Summating ninety thousand breeding pairs to fifty or fewer fifty thousand or fewer down to fifty yes. That's right. Just for reference, that's like Tallahassee, Florida losing almost half its population. So you've got a suspect strongly. The climate is implicated precisely how that sorting out going to be a very complicated question. But we will sort it out after short break. Do you wish you could find clothes that were kind to the planet and kind to the people who made them? Do you also wish you could find them without sacrificing style packed organic started ten years ago to solve that problem by making organic cotton, clothing for the whole family? These clothes are made out of one hundred percent organic cotton and other sustainable materials, and they're all made in fair trade certified factories, what you won't. Find are toxic dyes synthetic fertilizers chemicals and other gross stuff, you don't want touching. Your skin packed is also affordable, because packed believes that everyone should have access to fairly made close. Look good on the outside feel good on the inside shop head to toe goodness for the whole family at where packed dot com. Use code outside in to get twenty percent off your first clothing purchase. That's W. E. A. R P, A C, T dot com and the code outside in outside in is supported by contributing listeners and the New Hampshire. -partment of agriculture markets and food your one stop shop for taste of fresh local produce full of farm, stand favorites, New Hampshire offers a wide array of vibrant and delicious fruits and veggies all season long. That's why visiting local farms, and farmers markets with your family is the perfect way to pick your own food this summer from juicy strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries to ripe tomatoes. Cucumbers, eggplants summer squash, and more. It can make delicious memories from the farm to your kitchen table. You'll even find fresh Honey and maple syrup to satisfy your sweet tooth, and don't forget, August is eat local month. He can find local farmers markets pick your own farms fares, and more near you using the directories at visit NHL dot gov slash agriculture support local agriculture in New Hampshire throughout the year. Before the break. We heard that certain penguin populations are dropping precipitously. But why exactly what is the mechanism? And what does that tell us about which species will do well, and which won't in a changing climate William, Brigham of the PBS NewsHour picks up that story now there's new direct link that warmer temperatures are, what are causing these declines, but researchers point to several pieces of circumstantial evidence. The penguins main food source is a small shrimp like creature called krill. They're about the size of your pinkie finger and everything down here. Eats them krill is also commercially harvested for fish food, and human supplements, but climate change can harm them, too, and their numbers are down. Clear Christian runs the Arctic and Southern Ocean coalition and advocacy group are some species in the Arctic like Wales that can travel thousands of miles when penguins are raising their chicks. They can only go so far every day before they have to go back and feed. The chick, so if there isn't krill within the area that they can travel to their at risk of losing those chicks for the year run says his data indicate the Dili's in the Chinstraps have taken these changes very hard, but the gen two's on the other hand seemed to be thriving, Ron says, gentiles, can swim a little further and a little deeper, which gives them more range, but they've also diversified their diet, and they're starting to eat more fish all the penguins here could eat more fish, but only the gen two's, seem to be doing it the gen two's, have really made the big switch the Adeli's chef just having apparently picked up on the fact they need to start eating more. I keep thinking the degree to converse with these guys say, more fish eat more fish, but I don't speak. Adelie chinstrap, the warming environment has also triggered a seemingly contradictory affect on the dick peninsula. It's triggering more snowfall, which can cover the bird's nests and disrupt their breeding. But again, the Genta seemed to be adapting by laying their eggs, a second time. I think it highlights that they're going to be climate change winners, and there's going to be some climate change losers. Heather Lynch isn't evolutionary. Biologist from Stony Brook university in New York. And she's one of Ron's regular research partners. We met her in Argentina just as she'd finished. Her latest tripped, Antarctica. What's the prizing is how similar these three species of penguins? Are they breed in the same places they largely same things to breeding at the same time, they laid two eggs? So what's the prising to me is that the very small subtle differences, that they do have her actually the difference between? In being climate change winter and climate change loser. It's one of the real take messages here. I think from the gentlemen perspective, is that flexibility, and plasticity is going to be really key to adapting even thriving in climate change environment. And I think there's a real lesson for us as people as communities as cities were all going to have to figure out what's going to work in the future, and it may look very different than what's worked in the past. Was rushing might say. They breathe the same air. They have to have food. Good home and good environment. If one of those falls out to sink is troubling. So my question you might say, in a very general youth from this way. Are we going to be Jen to'sign future? Or we gonna have a sinking population like some of the chinstrap Adelie populations. I'm really gonna figure out either how to stop this warming or how to adapt to it. I don't know if we're going to be able to stop it. But I've been focusing a lot upon whether we're going to be able to adapt. On our last day, Antarctica with Ron and grant. We've visited chinstrap penguin colony. It's cold and windy. And the rain is mixed the guano together into a sticky stinky soup, but the two men are in their usual. Playful mood happy to show off their best chinstrap impressions. On the season. I think we're failed breeders field breeding. Chinstraps are Ron's favorite there. The first penguins, he ever saw here, but he also loves them because they're tenacious penguins run right up to. Really wanna see your pass for where you're from who are you, then they back off. You think these guys know that they're your favorite, I would have to be honest, and say, no, I don't speak, chinstrap nor do they speak English. But I must say in my quiet moments, I do go into my, and I sometimes get a respond, so I'd like to think that some might guys know who they're so cross species communication. Yeah, I guess, so. But I'm, I'm dreaming at seventy three after doing this for nearly half of his life run. Wien says he's not ready for this work to be over. I get very wistful and teary ides the honest since my last day in the Arctic for the season. I do wanna come back. I'm intending to come back. I've been doing this forever. I want not ready to hang up the penguin clicker, but I'll have a few moments later this afternoon with my favorite guys sitting down there. Community. If I'll go back to ship in heaven. Big fat smile on my face. I'm I'm the luckiest guy on the planet. The last continent was produced by Viga Aaronson, Mike, Fritz Emily Carpio, and William Bryan. And edited by Eric are Henry production assistance by Chris Ford. In fact, checking vic- con. Akpan myelin abra, amber. Partido Zoe Rorick music by blue dot sessions special. Thanks to Travis dob, Vanessa Dennis Brendan Butler, Stefan road James Williams. Julia Griffin, Dan, Kuni deem, Zane malaria Posey. Adam Sarah, and Laura strum, thanks also today Advani and Bruce Kane. W E, T, A, FM, Sarah, just is the executive producer. You can find a whole series, as well as broadcast versions. Yes. In fact, these folks are on the honest to goodness TV at PBS dot org slash news hour slash the last continent. We'll be back with the fresh episode of outside in in two weeks. Our theme music is by brake master cylinder outside in a production of New Hampshire public radio.
Monitor Show 01:00 01-09-2021 01:00
"New extra charge. hot nice. Coffee from dunkin is made with twenty percent. Extra caffeine from green tea extract. Because we could all use a little extra this year whether that's an extra boost some extra boldness or the drive to go the extra mile extra ready for whatever comes our way an extra excited to take it on. Let's get it done with a medium extra charge coffee from dunkin for dollars with twenty percent. More caffeine impaired snack will stuff bagel mini sprint added. All moose order ahead on the dunkin app. America runs on dunkin. Participation may vary limited. Time offer is bloomberg radio now. A global news update the fallout prices. Continues there are a bunch of thugs. That's how president elect joe biden described pro-trump activists who swarmed the capital on wednesday during briefing and delaware biden said. There must be a full blown. Investigation and people should be held accountable. He also accused president. Trump of actively encouraging. What happened at the capital. A capital police officer died after being seriously injured in the melee house speaker. Nancy pelosi says the chamber is ready to move forward with impeachment. If president trump doesn't resign. Brian shook has the latest in a statement. Pelosi said she's told the rule committee to be prepared to go with congressman jamie raskin's twenty-fifth amendment legislation and emotion for impeachment calls for trump to be removed from office if ramped up since wednesday's capitol hill attack at least five people have died as a result of the demonstrations led by pro-trump supporters. I'm brian shook and who survey is reporting that almost eighteen percent of republicans back the pro trump supporters stormed the capital on wednesday. A pbs newshour.
Debate week day 2: The making of
"Good care comes hello listeners. Welcome to the nurse. Has I'm Scott Bland your host and you're listening to the second episode of a special daily series that we're doing ahead of Thursday's Democratic presidential debate that PBS Newshour and politico go are co-hosting. We're going behind the scenes. They diving into the details of how this debate has come to be. Politico has a team of reporters and editors in La along with our moderator Tim Alberta and PBS news hours moderators and we caught up with bobby. Rizzo we're there to carpenter. Put Out affiars or fix things or run the show without being visible to the audience. He's on the team building. The sets right now and you see things that nobody else will ever see. He'll will actually be backstage during the debate. I'll be backstage to them. You know I'll see them. We'll be standing right next to him and we get to talk to them. I've talked to George Bush and Bill Clinton and over the years and interesting people you know. Even though they're the talent there actually at your mercy so showed doesn't happen without us and on the street were just. Nobody's but here were somebody. That's what I like about it so i. This is what I live for. We are literally taking you all the way back stage on this podcast. You're welcome listeners. And we've got political. Editor Kerry booed off Brown the skies are sunny and blue and the weather's perfect nice break from DC and executive producer of PBS news. Hour Sarah just just relaxing the sun. Yes a little busy to fill US thin on the months long coordinating process between these two institutions. When I start talking about this I think it was February? Yeah they've been talking about putting on this debate for a really long time. It was a long time ago much longer than we thought it would be right if we thought maybe we're going to do. One of the earlier debates that was in the offing for a while all and then Finally came down to December. And then I think we were happy with December right like it's actually a critical turning point in the campaign and and came to embrace timing even though it extended out this process probably by another three months and little. Did we know when we started planning at at the December nineteenth would be the same week that the house is voting on impeachment. So the it's a bit of a perfect storm of political control over that right around the time where we were. I think solidifying the partnership was right around the time that Ukraine stuff broke in September right. And it's just like this pre period period versus a post period in terms of like this crazy environment in Washington. It's pretty intense but we just plan at one step at a time. Oh you know we started talking about what we wanted to achieve broadly in a debate. Like this what we wanted to do. As news organizations as we got closer the moderators where identified. We really been drilling down the last few weeks on exactly what we want to talk about in the debate questions we want to ask. But there's a whole lot of other stuff. That goes into planning a debate as well. Sarah's I team has definitely taken on a lot of that. PBS Newshour is responsible for the production of it. So there's this whole operation that like I've thankfully have no visibility into I just no that the set looks pretty damn good right now. It can look from the outside like it's a disorderly process. But I would say you know Sarah Thankfully has has done this before and so has Judy Woodruff who is our lead moderator and so there is some sort of template to follow and just as you plan for any like major your event conventions whatever you know what you need to do leading up to it and You know it's you know our process on the editorial piece has been you know. I think pretty well. We'll laid out and smooth Even though you know there have been you know obviously curve balls from left and right Labor negotiators they'll control over that as news organizations nor would we want to control the weather. We can't control the weather if it rains in California. Apparently that's a thing We can't control when the House of Representatives decides to voted impeachment right now scheduled for Wednesday but maybe they'll do due Thursday. Maybe maybe we've even got plans for. What if they were to be voting while we're on the air live with the debate So we have to plan for every contingency The ones we can control the best we can do is have a plan and adjust as needed. But there's like there's a lot that's still to be determined. I think the debates Thursday but but there's still a lot that like Sarah laid out Both these labor negotiations here and and just the news back in Washington are really frankly any place else in the world right given that we want this to be as timely as we can you know You know we just have to play by ear each day leading up to the moment when when it starts I should say for the logistic side. You know one of the things. People think with a news organization television that were hosts a debate. They may not realize that you're also in charge of hosting all the media that come to attend event like this which I think there's something like four hundred credential official media coming to this event so all of that Planning is a huge has nothing to do with journalism but is very important that as producers we do well and I think a lot of people don't realize that that's part of the process to. I've spent some time this morning talking about And working out what shirt a moderator should wear so. That's not what I expected to be you doing. But nonetheless digital's we do Intel in terms of wardrobe exactly so that gives you an example of how howled down to the smallest list details. These things have to be accounted for and dealt with and planned and the fact that there was an email chain this morning dealing with the color of shirt of one of the moderators is is an example of that. Not Something I expected. All of our monitor's bring backup outfits because you want to see how it I really want to see. How like every person out how you feel that day but you WanNa look look at how things look on camera because sometimes color will look really different on camera than it does in person so we want to try it under the lights on the set and give people a chance to pick and choose it? Sounds silly but we want everybody to look their best. On the on the stage we have three women moderators and You know they don't all wear the right the same color so we've been definitely coordinating a little bit on that front. This is a group of journalists. You know who have done really excellent work and The other thing I didn't know about that I would have to do is do mock debates. Actually that was another one sort of having my reporters who cover. These candidates have had to embody the candidates they cover. And we've run through multiple all times with moderators With the cabinet. Reporters acting like their candidates seeing how they'll respond and it's been It's been fun to watch. Yep We rehearse rehearse think about all different scenarios and and try to plan for every possible scenario one of the You might have research. That goes into these things really pays off and So we're really in doing that every single day. All right. That's it for today's episode of the Nerd cast stay tuned tomorrow for another special debate week episode our producers this week are Jenny Almond any any. Reese are illustrators bill cookman thanks. We'll talk to you again tomorrow panoply.
Monitor Show 00:00 01-09-2021 00:00
"New extra charge hot coffee from dunkin is made with twenty percent. Extra caffeine from green tea extract. Because we could all use a little extra this year whether that's an extra boost some extra boldness or the drive to go the extra mile extra ready for whatever comes our way an extra excited to take it on. Let's get it done with a medium extra charge coffee from dunkin for dollars with twenty percent. More caffeine impaired snack will stuff bagel mini sprint added. All these moves order ahead on the dunkin app. America runs on dunkin organization may vary limited time offer percent of republicans back the pro trump supporters. Who stormed the capital on wednesday. A pbs newshour. Marist poll also shows that eighty. Eight percent opposed or strongly opposed. The violent demonstrations that took place inside the building as far as blaming president trump for invoking those supporters sixty three percent say he warrants the blame president elect. Joe biden spoke friday. About how democrats moving towards impeachment of the president. I've thought for a long long time. The president trump wasn't fit to hold a job and my job now in a twelve days. God willing. I'll be president united states america turns out. There may not be a second new strain of corona virus after all the new york times reports. It was just a hypothesis from the white house. Task force not proven. Dr deborah burks was apparently saying how another variant in the us might explain the surging cases and her comments were included in a report. The cdc does not agree with her assessment saying researchers are monitoring all emerging variants deutsche. Bank will reportedly pay upwards of one hundred million dollars to resolve criminal. Bribery charges james flippin reports process.
December 20, 2019
"Good Friday morning and welcome to your political playbook audio briefings tuned after the show for a message from Google. PBS Newshour and politico hosted a debate last night in Los Angeles. It was feisty in the second half candidates bar over everything from wine caves to the virtue of Washington experience to America's relationship with Israel it was substantive they feel questions about about climate change children with special needs worn Afghanistan money in politics and anti transgender violence it was likely to be consequential so always perilous to guess how voters will react but the major takeaway from Thursday's debate rumble in Los Angeles. Maybe that Joe Biden had his best debate night yet not only did he commit any of the rhetorical stumbles that plagued him in previous outings. Talk of his main rivals. Elizabeth Warren people to judge spent the evening sparring over the role donors playing American politics while they mclovin through haymakers of Mayor Pete for his lack of experience inability to win a statewide race. Indiana Kluber Shark attack went straight to Buddha judges greatest strategic vulnerability in won the Democratic primary. Voters care deeply about this cycle Kenny. Any win whether they buy his answer will determine whether the south bend mayor is merely this year's fad or whether he has the potential to surprise everyone in the upcoming Iowa caucuses where he's he's been leading in the polls how they react. Her performance will also determine if the Minnesota senator could finally break out of the bottom tier. The Elena Schneider and Dave ciders right about closures. Moment she tore. We're into people to judge and swiped at Bernie Sanders by the time to debate ended. It appeared Amy Klobuchar. Might have a chance. Nancy Pelosi spoke to Kaitlin John Bresnahan after a consequential quench week in Washington she was emboldened. Bresnan heather right finishing a tumultuous year back in the majority by teaching the president and then muscling through the house's biggest legislative win on trade all within twenty four hours Pelosi wave your hand dismissively when asked about Senator Mitch McConnell's suggestion that she was too afraid to send him the articles of impeachment. Look Chris Christie is up to Alex is set writes the Christie's logic of big money effort aimed at giving Senate Republicans air-cover on impeachment. He's looking to offset and multimillion dollar or offensive by Tom Dyer. The Washington Post writes about White House officials saying they feared Putin influence the president's views on Ukraine and the two thousand sixteen campaign the the president's Friday Donald Trump will have lunch with Mike Pompeo at twelve thirty. How participate the Christmas reception at five thirty before heading to Andrews Seven. We'll speak in a signing ceremony for the National Defense Authorization. ACT AT eight thirty. The President First Lady will fly to Palm Beach where they're scheduled to land ten forty five and arrived at mar-a-lago at eleven. O Five subscribe to playbook look at politico dot com slash playbook at Google. We believe the opportunities created by technology. Should be available to everyone. That's why we created grow with Google initiative that's focused on creating economic comic opportunities for all Americans and the small businesses that drive our economy grow with Google brings together the best of Google's resources to equip our students and the workforce of today with digital digital skills. They need to succeed are tools available online. And we're also partnering with libraries across the U._S.. Offering free workshops to all want to grow their skills career or business learn more at Google dot com slash grow.
"Titles this is. Npr by news. Eighty eight seven in houston. I'm game to lauder a houston area. Congressman is once again calling for the impeachment of president trump. the congressman al green says those articles of impeachment have to focus more on just the president's role in inciting wednesdays attempted insurrection. We need to add to articles of impeachment. The station of hate this has been brought to the congress before. And if there's going to be articles of impeachment there will be articles associated with what the president has done to spill his hate filled rhetoric and calls people to suffer that audio was courtesy of pbs newshour green previously sponsored articles against trump on three other occasions teachers and staff age. Isd canal get paid sick. Leave if they have to quarantine because of covid. The hris d. boorda's approved a new policy that allows employees to apply for up to ten days of emergency. Paid sick leave. The school district is also partnering with kroger to help qualified. Staffers get a covid vaccine. Rural clinics and hospitals in texas say. They're struggling to meet demand during the pandemic. Dr maurice wilkinson works at levada county medical center in hallett's fill. She says clinics have had to lean heavily on telemedicine so they can protect the few doctors. They have particularly for nursing home populations because they've been very hard hit like sold. He served seven different homes for three different counties. Wilkinson says each of their doctors is currently treating hundreds of patients. There was a big construction closure on the gulf freeway this weekend. Textile shutting down. The i forty five southbound main lanes and league city that has between state highway ninety six and fm five seventeen. Those lanes will close at nine. Tonight they're expected to reopen by five monday morning and while the lanes are closed traffic will diverted to the southbound feeder road for tonight mostly clear low near forty right now overcast fifty one degrees on the university of houston campus. I'm gail to bader news. Eighty eight seven support for npr hamsters from npr stations. Other contributors include oma.
The Psychedelic News Hour: New Breakthroughs, Compound Comparisons and Warnings (Psilocybin/LSD/Ayahuasca/N,N-DMT/5-MeO-DMT), Treatment of Trauma, Scalable vs. Unscalable Approaches, Making Sense of Bad Trips, and Much More (#458)
"Optimal. Minimal. This altitude I can run flat out. And start shaking. Question. Time Organism living tissue. Skeleton. To. Go. This episode is brought to you by the book how to lead by David Rubenstein David. Rubenstein is one of the visionary founders of the Carlisle Group and host of David Rubenstein Show where he speaks to leaders from every walk of life about who they are, how they find success and what it means to Lead Jeff Bezos Richard Branson Warren Buffett Bill Gates Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Phil Knight Oprah all of them and more are featured in his new book titled How to Lead This comprehensive leadership playbook illustrates the principles. And guiding philosophies of the world's greatest game changers. In this book's pages, you can discover the expert secrets to being effective and innovative leaders past podcast guest. Walter Isaacson has this to say quote reading this invaluable trove of advice from the greatest leaders of our time is like sitting in an armchair and listening to the masters reveal their secrets, pick up a copy of how to lead subtitle wisdom from the world's greatest CEOS finders and game changers by David Rudenstine in hardcover e book or audio anywhere books are sold. Hello Ladies and germs, boys and girls. This is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show where it is normally my to deconstruct world class performers of all different types all different, all different sectors whatever you get the idea in this special episode, the tables are completely turned instead interviewing someone else I am interviewed two experts on several topics I both studied and supported for quite some time including second assisted psychotherapy what it can do to heal trauma and broadly speaking possible futures for mental health. We cover a lot I'm not a doctor I don't play one on. The Internet. So this is for informational purposes. Only this audio was recorded on a new show, the Psychedelic News Hour the PSYCHEDELIC Newshour, dot com soon to be a podcast and I'm in conversation with two people Dr David Raven MVP HD Dr Dave. Dot Oh, you can find them on Instagram at Dr David Rubin. R. A. B. I N., a certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist Executive Director of the Board of Medicine and Co founder of Apollo neuroscience as well as Dr Mollie Malouf md Dr Mollie Dot Co and on Instagram at Dr Mollie dot co a physician Stanford Lecture and Ketamine assisted psychotherapist. was recorded on an APP called clubhouse. You can find it at join clubhouse dot com an APP still in private Beta and defined by their tagline, which is clubhouse is a space for casual drop in audio conversations with friends and other interesting people around the world. I don't have any stake in this. APP which I did I guess since I'm giving it a free plug this one's on me clubhouse one final note I record this on my phone eight necessity for using the APP. So the audio quality is not studio quality, but it was polished as much as possible at. listenable. You'll be able to make it out. You should be fine. So thank you for understanding and thanks to everyone who joined and asked very thoughtful questions. I had a lot of fun doing this and we covered eight ton of ground that has not been covered on this podcast. So without further ADO, here we go. Welcome back to another psychedelic news hour on clubhouse. We are so so thankful and grateful to have all of you join us here again today. I'm Dr Dave Raven I'm a psychiatrist and neuroscientist as well as a ketamine assisted psychotherapist in MD assisted psychotherapist and I'm joined by my co host Dr. Mollie loof who is also a physician and academy nist psychotherapist. And we are very excited in humbled to bring to. You are very guest this week. He has done some incredible work in the PSYCHEDELIC. Research space in investment space and the mental health space actually, which were I think all of this ties together and I think that one of the things that we often forget about and I really wanted to tell you this him for a long time because I've been following your work and I'm so grateful for. The fact that you've done two major things that I think have really radically transformed the landscape of mental health in this country, and it's not just mental health really talking about health because part of the problem with health looking at mental health in the US in in the Western paradigm is we separate mental health and physical health where they're really just health and? Mental Health left unchecked over time causes physical health problems and physical health left unchecked over time can cause mental health problems when we know that this is the case and you had the courage a while back to come out and actually talk about your experiences with mental health in public and to have these conversations and bring them to the forefront of our community so that other people could feel no longer afraid to start to have these conversations and I think that you know as a psychiatrist as somebody who does psychedelic work and molly to speak for both of us when I say that we could not be more grateful and I don't think the field of. Mental health could be more grateful to you, and we should probably do a in terms of the response responsible better job of showing that gratitude because you've really helped stigmatize trauma Andy stigmatize mental illness so that people can feel comfortable talking about this in public settings interest more often general, which is really the first step along the healing process, and then you've transformed that by taking the next step and actually putting money in putting resources and encouraging others to put resources into the research development and commercialization of his powerful tools that were also stigmatized heavily that now can be used to do something that we never thought. We could do in mental health, which is tell someone. That it's possible. There could be a cure for what you're experiencing right now only may not be there yet, but we're closer than we've possibly ever been and I just want to take this moment to thank you for all of your hard work in everything you've done to help facilitate this 'cause into really share joy with the world of people who were suffering right now. So thank you and please. Welcome Tim. FERRISS. Thank you very much. I. Feel as someone who spent decades in darkness. Experiencing many of the conditions that these compounds they have the capability to treat. And believing that as many even in psychiatry. Currently believed. Them to be intractable or at the very best treated with some type of suppression of symptoms. It's an honor from a to play whatever small role that I can and it's also a moral imperative. Ideal. So it's been an incredible journey in every respect of the word. Hoping to continue to be a supporter and catalysts to the extent that I can. So thank you for saying that ruined speaking of that journey I think we would be remiss if we did not start out by giving you the opportunity to update everyone on clubhouse who was not a party to the incredible announcement by maps that you enjoy green played such an important role in recently would you mind telling everyone a little bit about the capstone in the great success that that has been that was announced yesterday. My pleasure, there's a piece that does a good job of summarizing this in the Wall Street Journal is online by Shalini Rubber Chandra, which has the headline silicon. Valley and Wall Street Elites pour money into psychedelic research. The subtitle gets closer to the summary, which is donors. For psychedelic don profit that's maps to complete clinical trials fifty three trials around drug assisted psychotherapy for trauma. That's Md. Obey psychotherapy for Putra. Matic. Stress Disorder certainly trauma of many different types whether that's war veterans, first responders, victims of sexual abuse or otherwise any type of these circling and the capstone campaign was funny to say in the past ten style. Off The capstone campaign was a campaign to raise. Thirty million dollars necessary. Complete phase, three trials of and. Ebay. dioxymethamphetamine. Otherwise known as ecstasy in the amplified psychotherapeutic. Treatment of Kisii and it's very important to emphasize that this is not face trials four MDA's standalone treatment. Is the combination of context and Bollock you'll, which is extremely extremely important as upstream discussed previously in these meetings. And thirty million dollars is or would have been even three years ago and almost unthinkable amount of money and unattainable amount of money to raise for this and. Say. It took rick almost what like thirty years to raise the first thirty million exactly. So it ahead of years ago the number of people contributing just committing seven figures to seconds research would have been a handful. and. That has changed a lot. The last two years I think that's a credit rick I think it's credits many things in the increase de stigmatization of supporting the scientific research. There are many things one can support within the realm of. Let's call it psychologist Idyllic Science, which I think is part of the reason there's a lot of scattered focus and historically in some cases, a lack of results. You can you can go meter in a million directions very easily if you don't focus but in this case, the peace summarized very notable. Dame's to have contributed a lot and when I would like to really underscore about this is that there were donors into nations made from one dollars all the way up to five million and. There were more than twenty five hundred donors including probably people listening to this, put their trost after reading or hearing what evaluated into supporting this at every donor mattered, and the number of donors to be is just as important as the birth of dollars raised because it signals to me a real phase shift in the cultural conversation about these compounds we don't have to revisit the sort of historical mistakes that were made in say the sixties. A nor the cultural context which is very different from the cold for products now but I think it's very exciting that more and more people are realizing that it is actually an incredible reputational opportunity to align yourself with exploring these unconventional treatments for. Extremely. Expensive sometimes, fatal often paralyzing conditions that we seem utterly unable to treat properly via other beans currently. So the fact that we have such an incredibly low toxicity profile. For if we're talking about empty main suicide and specifically because let's not forget that there are hundreds and thousands of what we could call psychedelic compounds among those two that perceived breakthrough therapy designation by the FDA with vast amounts of data to support their clinical use have incredible safety profiles, low toxicity. Certainly, you're gonNA find any more people in emergency rooms because of. Tylenol, which can be incredibly toxic compared to these. and. The fact that they have the results they appear to have to look at they face to data from. Would lead one to believe either that. People are lying right there. Misrepresenting the results they cannot be true. Or something is happening that defies any conventional psychiatric or psychological explanation for how the brain changes and how thoughts and patterns change. The capability of humans to rewrite their software to rewrite the stories, they tell themselves with incredible durability of fact, in the case of FDA or suicide than say Hopkins. You're looking at one two, three total treatment sessions with durability of various effects, six months, twelve months, eighty months later, that is more interesting to me than just about anything else. I could possibly focus so I'll stop by my monologue there. You're you're absolutely right to him. I mean it's it's phenomenal. It really demonstrates highlights what we're seeing as this complete paradigm shift in mental illness and I can say as a Western trained psychiatrist you know we're taught to tell people that you prescribe medicine or therapy, and you tell people that the studies show that if they discontinue medicine or discontinued therapy at any. Time that their chances of relapse go up and the severity of their relapses will likely go up and what we're seeing from MD may for those who are not familiar with the phase two trial results is that people who have had treatment resistant ptsd for on average seventeen years something like fifty three percent are no longer meeting diagnostic criteria after just three doses of. NBA In twelve weeks of psychotherapy is as you were saying and what's even more remarkable is five years out without any more subsequent treatment sixty seven percent of these people are no longer meeting diagnostic criteria and from having trained in the MBA protocol and Ketamine assisted psychotherapy burke all which were very, very similar. I can tell you that my perspective on this which. I think is very similar to a lot of the practitioners who work in this area is the reason why this works. So differently because we're actually teaching people how to heal themselves were reminding them of this innate as Mike Anti mid Hoffer say the inner healing intelligence that we were all born with has the capacity to be reactivated when we recognize that it's there. And this allows us an opportunity to start to heal ourselves because the center of our Keeling we now recognize comes from within us not from some pill that we have to take every day and not from some person we have to see every week but actually from within ourselves, which is so remarkable it is and at one underscores something you said or two names mentioned any and Michael Bid Hoffer who are incredible practitioners. I should say that therapists and who have helped, define and formalize key format for psychotherapy that assisted by mgm these mass trials and I do whatever I can. Try to play the role of conservative voice in Media Related Psychedelic because I do not view psychedelics Panacea I. Do not think they're suitable for all people and it's very easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. By viewing psychiatry as it exists for therapy as it exists as obsolete and I think that's a huge mistake because the results that are achieved are I think in many cases dependent on tools from therapy or psychiatry like? Internal family. Systems. IFS hearts work. These types of conversations when conducted this type of self enquiry when aided by therapist with the empathic, let's just call it of empty something that generates empathy not just towards others they can be directed at the self within self is incredibly Putin and it is the combination. It is the combination. This is why if you go tune EDM festival, it's not automatic that a thousand people on ecstasy resolving your child's to trauma. It just doesn't work that way. Nor does every pothead who tries in all due respect potheads any any pothead in college tries mushrooms wants doesn't automatically stop smoking but on the other side when you look at the nicotine addiction studies that have been done with proper planning format support and integration follow up. By say Dr Johnson Add Hopkins, the results are staggering. They are literally staggering the suit. I just wanted to take that opportunity to you indicate that we can borrow best practices from psychiatry and therapy and effectively put them on performance enhancing drugs by adding some of these compounds with the right safety profiles, and certainly ketamine is is of interest to me as well. Yeah, and love everything you guys are saying because the thing that we've always emphasized in the news hour is is fundamentally important that people recognized the best. Come from fare plus Madison. But I'm curious to both of you guys just asked from both of you because I know you're probably even more well versed than I am on all the research even I read through quite a lot of explain to the audience how these studies have been performed and assume that there's some sites in southern audience I'm sure there's some people that are. Questioning wondering about okay. So this study done, was there a control of just medicine or control of Arab can teach people a little bit about how this has been performed for that kind of get understanding of specific research job happy to share one aspect of it. That is very valid important part of the competition, and then I'd love to hand the Mike Off Because I am. I am off on the line with two doctors nine Mo- certainly not a doctor and do that play on the Internet but have spent a lot of time looking at and being involved with study design just as a funder of. Research because you have to pick and choose your targets you have to pick and choose your study designed very, very careful. You don't get an infinite number of investments for leverage in science just like you don't get in business these things cost a lot of buddy and they take a lot of times you have to really think about your prayers from the outset while let me give the short answer I yes. These are placebo controlled randomized studies and the intervention. The active can prevention. Let's say at the ED is contrasted with a placebo combined with the same therapy, the same therapeutic approach, and the fact is the most consistent powerful. Across all of medicines so we need to take it very seriously and their entire books written about placebo no CBO which is the opposite of that where you can get the same pharmacological intervention by believing that it doesn't work, which is just as crazy. You begin to think about it yet real and blinding and including placebo in psychedelic studies is remarkably challenging because it is very quickly obvious to almost everyone whether or not. They've been given a psychedelic even if they have had no prior exposure if they do enough reading and so on. Rick would be much for qualified talk about this but there are. Ways to us what what might deem it an active able to create a physiological sent us such as by using something like Niacin where you have skin flushing so-called liason flush and of active placebos can be used particularly well with respect to at the way it is more challenging when you are using what we might consider classic. psychedelic with strong visionary or visual components such as side but I would love to pass the mic because that's where I feel like I start waiting into the deep end of ignorance pool prefer to defer. Thank you so much for that Tim I. Think you covered the great majority. Of It actually I think bringing up placebo in no CBO and the importance of those things is really critical because I think what a lot of people don't understand is a placebo and no CBO are really having a factor in the study design that takes into account the power of belief in our treatments. So Placebos really a matter of saying in western scientific lingo that if you believe Trine is going to work for you then it's going to work. It's thirty to fifty percent of the time more likely to work if you believe in it and these numbers roughly for Mental Health Studies and for. No Cbo I think the numbers are actually a little higher, which means if you believe that a treatment will not work for you, it is thirty to fifty percent less likely to work, which is really fascinating. That is really the power of the mind in the healing process. Right. Getting back to what we were talking about before is using this combination of psychotherapy to enable or amplify the power of the medicine and intern using the medicine in the case of MD, Ada, catalyze the radical safety in radical healing potential for psychotherapy to facilitate these incredible healing experiences people that are really rooted in intention and belief. which goes back to a lot of the tribal history of how traditional still Simon and cactus ceremonies and I WASPA- ceremonies are performed. It's all about intention to heal and curate a safe space for that intention to manifest in healing and that you can see that consistently when you look in how these NBA trials are put together, it really pulls that intention -ality that is rooted in these traditional tribal cultures in their ancient healing practices that are who knows probably five, ten, twenty, thousand years old it pulls in as best as we can into a Western paradigm that's double blinded placebo controlled and randomized where you know subjects get this incredible twelve weeks of psychotherapy protocol. The results for people going through just to compare said earlier of the people who have seventeen years plus on average of treatment resistant. TST. In the maps phase two trial with MBNA. What we saw was that. Two months after treatment wrapped up in the active group that actually received NBA and again this these crossover studies. So all the subjects got md may eventually but there were also groups of subjects that got placebo I in some groups got placebo second, which is typically in these studies and correct me if I'm wrong I believe it was low dose. MDA which was not critical enough to hit the threshold. is a really interesting molecule because it's you have to hit a threshold to be able to get the active effect which makes NBA. Probably the worst medicine to micro dose because it has a paradoxical effect where you kind of don't feel good if you take too little of a dose and you don't hit that threshold peak dose. which is somewhere between eighty and one hundred, twenty milligrams for most people, and so they use that as the placebo. But what's really interesting is that in these people who had seventeen years on average of treatment resistant PTSD, we see that fifty three percent who had be active MBNA two months out are no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for PTSD I. believe that in the Placebo Group that only received the sub therapeutic dose of Mbna, what we? Saw was something like twenty something percent I think it was like twenty five or twenty seven percent were no longer meeting diagnostic criteria, which is actually pretty amazing because that means that the therapy alone this twelve weeks of intensive therapy with two therapists is actually very powerful helping people but then you go and look at the five year follow up data, which is really where it counts and what you see is the people who did not get. At, five years out, they did not continue to get better in fact, many of the twenty-seven percent that were no longer meeting symptom interior at the end of that first twelve weeks actually relapse and ultimately had a recurrence of PTSD symptoms whereas more people who got 'em. DMA. Were symptom free or not meeting diagnostic criteria five years out. Then we're at two months out, which then goes to continuously reinforces idea that the medicine, the therapy and the intention to heal our facilitating this radically transformative experience that allows people to remember how to heal themselves, which is just such an incredible opportunity mental health. We've never seen anything like this before. I think it's super interesting. Just tie this up that if you look at research, you know the struck came along by John Jay and frankly it's not a very good drug because it's not much better than regular ketamine and like they didn't combined with any therapy and dodgers aren't really using it that much especially, the documents academy space because it's basically designed, just go to the clinic, take the medicine go home, and that's what's so inspiring about this ops research is by its design it's combining these two therapeutic banalities in order to create the best Evac Long-term to most people who ask me should I do? Fill in the blank should I do? Should I use soil seven? Should I use the? Should I use I wa- should I use? MDA. Generally speaking I was ninety plus percent of the time after I. Ask if you follow up questions, my answer is no. which might be surprising given how public I am about supporting research. And the reason for that is pretty simple. I. Think that there's a lot of preparation you can do to increase the odds of a very good outcome. Much like if you're going to bet in a casino, you should probably read a few books beforehand do a little bit of role playing maybe some rehearsal online play for real stakes to see how your psychology changes, and then maybe you consider going to the casino and only then should even consider a game where you might have might if you are exceptional, have a chance of bending the odds, you're playing blackjack single deck blackjack instead of A. Slot machine the wheel and I think a lot of people play roulette with psychedelics said I think it's terrible idea for the following reason simple way to think about psychedelics and I'm not saying this site typically comprehensive because it's not it's better metaphor. But when psychedelics do and this is whether you're dealing with trip to means. A where you're dealing with means but I think particularly tricked me into a lot of context we could put. In that, category. Certain. Late. Dot. Demand we fall into that category, these compounds and demet although I considered pathogen a more than a psychedelic is similar respects. What it's doing is heating up the clay of your your mind and psyche and grain. Structurally also such that it's more malleable and you can reshape these narratives and stories and behaviors that have governed much of your life and many of these stories many of these narratives, many of these behaviors, compulsive loops whether that compulsion. Manifesto OCD eating disorders. Depression chronic anxiety alcoholism or otherwise I happen to think that these are all symptoms of a shared underlying. Issues the heat up the clay so that you can rebuild those stories. Most of what you never shows me yourself. They were absorbed some somehow or caused by the Environment Trauma Childhood for instance maps in Parrot whatever by the and then the question is you the clay? What do you do to ensure it remolded in the most beneficial way possible like you have an expert sculptor with lots of experience helping you. Right. If we think about it as a keyboard or rewriting a story like you have a season proof reader helping you or a cat running across the keyboard. psychedelics play lead or worse. Still Are you environment that is utterly unsupportive where maybe you have destroyed his friends who WanNa Prank you for you have negligent friends who've taken a compound and are enjoying the experience in don't want to be taken down by the trauma that is surfacing for you. If that's the case important to realize that the clay can be molded into a misshapen form that is worse than original state I think this is really important to emphasize right so you're introducing a period of plasticity in the. Brain where it is flexible and then the question or one of the questions is, what are you doing beforehand during afterwards to ensure that you're shaping it the most beneficial way possible and for that reason, if people aren't willing to do quite a lot of up front preparation to take it seriously to allocate sufficient time for a very spacious on rampant off ramp from the experience. In other words, you're not having your first psychedelic experiences five as five hundred the on a Sunday night and then going into office not. Only then and in addition to that, committing to post care having a therapist psychiatrist or otherwise on board as a safety net so that they'd have a support structure that is not one of their volunteer friends will I recommended that someone consider use of psychedelics seriously pickled and that's not mentioned the. D. Medicine on the street these days is so patchy and. You're really rolling the dice every time you go and buy a psychedelic procured through the dark lab through drug dealer through wherever you get your medicine. You just don't know why involved says, and especially with MDA, which is three us for having adulterants and and other sorts. Of things that people will cut it was. So It pays to. Tread carefully and thoughtfully, and I do think that caution is the better part of Valor here and that to continue to lay on the metaphors. Measuring twice cutting once counts per lots because in control settings with proper supervision with the pre and post carefully thought through which means it's not impromptu. There is a plan just like you would have a plan going into reconstructive knee surgery you have preab surgery. You'd have medication to assist post op and interrupt, and you would have a significant about of attention dedicated pre-operation to your rehabilitation. I look at the same way if you don't do that although it's not. As common to read about or hear about these stories, you can end up very dislocated. You can end up becoming on more and I have seen firsthand. I've seen dozens of lives directly changed in ways that are inconceivable based on the textbooks of psychology and Psychiatry, Houston College, for instance, for medical schools. Inconceivable and that tells me that that as any doctor retaliated like fifty percent of what we know is wrong we just don't know which fifty percents. Right I mean it was like we operated on do born and infants without anesthesia until Nineteen eighty-seven let's not forget right I mean we are still in the medical Dr Gauges in many respects and that will always be the case. There will be great unknowns of value I think that many of them are in psychedelics on the opposite end of the spectrum I've seen people get so destabilized and knocked sideways that they are effectively in a psychotic state for days weeks score in. Cases Years afterwards generally associated with IOS getting lost in that world and south. America. So it is very smart is very tactically useful to do your homework and if you WANNA go fast the bar for the military like slowest moving Smith threaten, you could not be more right there tim and I, thank you for echoing a sentiment that we talk about frequently on news hour because that's you know what you're mentioning is really one of the most common mistakes I think people make with the psychedelic medicines and I think your metaphor about the clay. Remolding, the clay warming mcclay is such a good one because you know our brains really learn more I think he'd metaphor than in any other way and metaphor of of warming the clay giving the opportunity for the clay to take new shape or for us to effectively reshape it, reform it, and then have it solidify in the way that we want or intended to be in the future that the line with our. Goals maybe not as much aligned with whatever we absorbed in the first several years of our lives from whoever happened to be around us at those times or whatever we were seeing on TV or what have you or in our schools. But actually what we want ourselves to be not knowing what are potential really is is just such a powerful metaphor and I really appreciate you bringing that up because that is such. A great way to think about this and I think you know interestingly I think that metaphor she plays into a lot of different other areas of of our lives, speaking of which were kind of stuck in a mold for a long time in the scientific and medical community where research only was done a certain way you know research was funded a certain way. It was only conducted at certain places in certain contacts and. So a lot of these different approaches kind of got left out and we're not even evaluated and the Klay, wasn't even ever really warmed thoroughly for us to have an opportunity to say, hey, maybe there's a different way we could be doing this and then someone like you comes around and says, Hey, guys wait a minute if I take some money and some of my friends money and we put it towards this stuff. All of a sudden, it doesn't really matter what the NIH or the Nimh says we can make new research happen. Why is it so important or more important than ever right now to have diverse sources of research funding in the mix I think. I pursue setting that up so nicely. I do that a quick recommendation for a few resources for people who might be contemplating psychedelics or perhaps are engaged but want to increase their exposure to perhaps a few different inputs to be helpful. The healing journey by plugging hall in a are A and J. Is Essential I highly recommend the introduction alone makes any cost associated very cheap. Chief of these are actually published by maps and it just so happens not because they're published by maps because there are great books and I'm recommending them secret chief, which is a discussion of to promote. Of Facilitation and I would also recommend to anyone who has engaged with or considering being gauged psychedelics that you download the waking up by Sam Harris. Do the introductory course, ten minutes a day for I. Think it's between thirty and fifty days. This will help you navigate and squeeze the most choose from your experiences particularly when combined with book called awareness by Anthony the. Mellow. So do those two concurrently backyard. Why are diverse sources of funding important. Well, I would say I that the citizen philanthropy, the capital from individual donors is important for civil almost because there's such a lack of funding from many other sources and my intention with committing many billions of dollars of my own capital, the largest such commit to anything for profit or nonprofit in my life certainly especially to getting a few years ago whether it's Hopkins, Imperial College the phase three trials with maps. And and gays psychotherapy. The intention is to provide seed capital to something that can be a world changer just as I would in the world of startups. Michael's fifty k. to something that I think can raise fifteen million no problem a few years later, and therefore the objective has been to pave the way through de stigmatizing in reputation gear risking not just you risking but clearly showing the reputational upside of supporting the size as an individual. To grease the wheels for individuals then foundations than larger foundations that have more reputation management in place and more systems and processes at these larger name-brand dynastic wealth foundations and ultimately government agencies. So my plan starting at least a year ago probably months ago has been to try to set certain things in motion that will likely increase the odds of federal funding within say three to five years I hope closer to three years and I'm very optimistic. About that that the less as it stands right now, the research that we are seeing is almost entirely dependent on individuals finding conviction in the data sometimes in their on experiences Q. Look at this as an opportunity to bent the arc of history from a mental health perspective but flight from college within medicine can be separated into pre antibiotics post antibiotics that was addressing physical. Bugs for the sake of simplicity if we are addressing mental psycholocial bugs and fixing the software, I think always have the potential to mark that type of before after a line and it's up to individual philanthropists right now, much in the same way that oral contraceptives were up to Catherine McCormack. This incredible woman everyone should read her with ticket from her history at MIT to. Single, handedly, developing oral contraception with the equivalent of I. WanNa say twenty four billion dollars in today's money adjusting for inflation over a period of five or ten years and it was initially approved. If my memory serves me for the indication of Menstrual Disorders to super important and ties into the strategy of how to shepherd some of these compounds through Byzantine, regulatory affairs although the FDA has been incredibly for about a ad that they're not the enemy here they've been incredibly supportive of both Set the initial indications very important, and that bent the arc of history you think about the long-term global effects of that liberation for half of our species in the form of Broil contraception being able to family plan with that as a tool in the toolkit for such a small dollar amount grinding. That is like one in ten billion out and I looked at startups look that science guy I should say. You're not the only place I have allocated capital placed bets world of scientific research but they are the primary focus for that reason if anyone is sitting on the sidelines for now and they've been considering where they want to put their capital, he can't take your marbles with you. We're all GonNa die that you could be buried like Pharaoh with. Golden thrones gold bars, and so odd that it's probably not gonNA help you very much I. Think this is a golden window of time over the next call it one to three years where spokane go down in history as having been the spark the kind of lit the bonfire that lived the world on fire in the most productive way. Possible. That is so inspiring and you know the the. South tell on. That is the real kind of big question that plagues me every day as I'm thinking about trying to figure out how are we going to go from one hundred hours therapy to hundreds of thousands of people who have trauma right now from what's happening in our country over the next five years like we can get these drugs approved, but the reality is that the delivery of the satisfieds look at our whole system right now I mean it's failing at its basic function, which is to treat sickness, and so what is your vision of how this gets to scale because that's the real question that I think is going to truly lead to whether or not like the changes of World War we're stuck with expensive treatments for only people can afford it and that's what I'm trying. To, figure out right now is doing need to design new studies that enable groups of goal to have treatments together. If you look at indigenous cultures, I walked is delivered in groups, and so i. kind of have an issue personally with I knew we have to design studies that will get approved by the FDA. I have a really hard time understanding how we're going to get this sale Rebecca Kranz. I think this is a better question for the naps professionals, but I can give you by lens through which I looked at or the lenses. The first is that this may sound strange given what I just said but scale and believe me I could council I know getting off slightly but I can be a four letter word and Seth Godin talks quite a. Bit about how easy it is to escape into the big as opposed to focusing on the small in front of you. Ryan, even airbnb before it was airbnb focused on doing things that didn't scale and there's actually an excellent episode of the masters of scale podcast by Reid Hoffman with interviews of Franceschi, and the other founders of airbnb about doing things in the. Beginning did not scale very deliberately that might seem antithetical to becoming very big. But in fact, it is not it is necessary for prototyping and refining and throwing against the wall so that you can build on early successes. The things that we do in the beginning are almost certainly not going to do the things at least not copy and paste that are done. Through player nor five years later that's first assumption I would say that making the second is that it is very challenging to scale in person periods full stops I don't expect it to be easy Another assumption is that this is not going to easy, and if something appears easy, we should double down on scrutiny and really stress tested because there are probably weakness. Third, is looking at historic adoption of different behaviors and systems like it or hateds or even if you're neutral many many many things that end up at scale like recycling in the United States started as something piloted in very very small communities and generally in affluent areas right that I think these days can produce a visceral negative response, but it's important to realize that the more affluent generally speaking we're going to have more capital Thailand with which they can use to. Serve as guinea pigs at that make sense, right? You're not going to ask single Bob four to be a guinea pig it'd be unfair reasonable to be streamed problematic rights. Still a lot of the guinea pigs end up being small districts get people with more capital and time and I think that's okay. If you look at startups in the very early stages, they very often use the initial premium pricing for a small subset of people to completely pay for the RND. Developing cheaper versions that can be deployed or widely certainly true with over which I know very, very well. Those one of the initial adviser size saw them deliberately do that but in the beginning, they caught incredible flack. For being. In that respect but suffice to say that was effective strategy is a strategy that we've seen over and over again in different areas and I would expect frust get in psychedelic therapies and the ultimate form that it takes. I don't know by another base suction keeps me going quite frankly with all that I've involved with with respect to psychedelic science and indigenous communities the psychology there's a lot that I haven't talked about publicly that I'm involved with but even if we just look at the forward. Facing stuff, it's very time consuming. It's very energy intensive. It's very capital Hungary and part of what keeps me going is the realization which is not a out in any sense because I do want to reach millions of people ultimately, but not Russia in self incinerate the process is that to change the world, you do not need to treat a hundred people. If you can help one person overcome paralyzing trauma, you've changed the world full stop the ripple effect from that one person can be incredible. Right. Let's see that one person is the daughter of a senator or Congress person who has lifelong eating disorder multiple brushes with death multiple hospitalizations and psychedelic therapy is able to allow that person to find peace and rewrite their narratives such that they're not battling Stephen Everyday. That's one person technically butts. What are the far reaching implications at that? There are many right if it's helpful at any point that if you WanNa talk about I want to go we can talk about that as well there. are a number of people in these economic science world researchers who are looking at group integration and I think that's very important to point, and so that is going to happen. It's going to happen and it is happening and I'm sure that there are Baltimore researchers who are looking at the effectiveness and cost effectiveness of operating in groups, not a thoroughly tree possessions but certainly for presidents more frequently integration I am optimistic that in some cases groups full, not just be as effective but more. Than One on one or want to meeting one patient and two facilitators integration I'm very very optimistic and I think one of the ways. The various factions of the second movement will hurt each other and themselves and hobble things is by trying to boil the ocean once if you try to to fast that is a recipe for disaster in my opinion I'm still aggressive of fucking aggressive how I am with this type of thing I'm very aggressive. So I pushed. I really push but there is a point at which you can push too hard and things can break. It's it's a balanced. From you as well. That is a really beautiful answer in part of why I'm so inspired by is in Ohio, medical practice is always been fairly elitist and weighs on me a lot is I have charged a lot of money for. Early Adoption of Technologies Dad's now are becoming scalable, and what's really cool is that there's a lot of companies that are taking that I've been doing manually and they're digitizing. So I think there is a lot of hope and promise making the hard part of being an early adopter is that you see future and you know was You just so badly wanted to now because never have we ever seen so much trauma all at once as just heartbreaking to see society right now with so much pain and knowing how to wait for this and I know it's necessary but it's still painful watching so much pain in the world it's like you just WanNa alleviated as Dr That's kind of why you went to medical school. And I just saved for anybody listening. You know these historically think many participants in the second space and there are used the word factions very deliberately. Infighting within the PSYCHEDELIC world particularly hilarious and hypocritical but none the less for humans in tribal at all of that. Said, one of the greatest weaknesses in the psychedelic world is having everything become a priority and trying to do everything if everything is your priority, nothing is your priority and I'm not saying that you specifically molly at all, it's just a lead into a broader observation of why the Psychedelic subcultures coordinating the different pieces can often be like hurting cats is because there is a pervasive lack of focus. So pick your shots if you have your patients good job which patients that you are doing a good job period so I want to just that is any reassurance. Yeah, Tim I want to echo would molly was saying and I really appreciate your perspective on that because I think it is a unique perspective I for one of these conversations about scaling with Liana, who just joined us to provide the maps framework for planning for scaling these kinds of things since Tim, you brought it up and also with Rick Dublin and talking about how we can expand access anything. What always comes back to me is reminding myself of what are these medicines? Really trying to teach us and there has been this constant pattern of ancient knowledge that keeps coming to me through the work that I work with my own clients with him without medicine, and also through some of the experiences that I've had in my own trainings for example, training. For Ketamine, assisted psychotherapy where you know it really comes back to these tribal tenants of wisdom which are gratitude, forgiveness, compassion and self love as the foundation of trust that all of this is built. On, not only trust in ourselves and allows everything else to grow from a stable foundation but also trust in everything else that we're doing and trust in each other and trust in this whole adventure that we're on together that we can do this together and the interesting one of those four that I think people including myself have the most trouble with on a regular basis is self compassion because self compassion is most commonly on a moment to moment day to day basis really. The practice of patients for allowing things to unfold as they will in time with focus and with dedication and devotion. But without rushing because when we rush, we make mistakes and that patients and allowing that time that opportunity for that compassion to come into our lives allows us to recognize and take a breath and take a step back and say you know what there is no rush right now you know we have a lot to do and there's a lot of other people. Helping, and there's a lot of work on the horizon and a lot of things that we need to do but there is no rush the more we can be patient with this process and all work together to see through not quickly. But effectively than the better, this will be for everyone but I just wanted to thank you for bringing up the patients driven approach and reminding us of that, and I just wanted to give Liana an opportunity to quickly catch up on maps. Plan concepts for scaling some of these treatments more effectively death domestic coney up I could see here is leads I really appreciate this conversation of being Hubbard out in the direction of status in Bali everybody here, I mean there is such incredible need and I see every day with the amount of messages I work with another group that works with veterans, and there is a very urgent need for these treatments and just two quick points on scaling that I wanted to bring in. Is just one. Let us remember that the MBA protocol was first developed fourteen years ago, and it's taken a very long time to get this work where I guess and it was developed in the model with dual therapists in the room for the eight hour sessions with the understanding to create the most comprehensive protocol had the highest likelihood of success with the FDA framework, and so it was coming from the place. highly stigmatized long time to get the research where it. Is Today to bring dot. He said, and then also to say that there is an Unin- own factor to see what happens when you eat start treating thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people with MD at a and this controlled growth model that we're working with which there are some natural friction still data to the rate of which we can adequately trained therapists due to the need for supervision, and there's only so many participants in our studies. There's only so many. For therapists to receive supervision in their training. So we want to be prepared for any adverse events and we want to shore up dip tangible for there to be backlash against this work so that we can continue to Success Fisher, and so it will be very control kind of growth model. There will be a very limited amount of therapist available to do this work and day one best approval. But then quickly after die, it will start to grow exponentially. So it will take time and patience is needed another hearts dangerous. But it is the way to. Work Right I just Tim I really appreciate your comments on all of that. So thanks. On. Such Dec- you first of all. Here you it's from long-term planning perspective. It is I think important to scenario plan. Meaning anticipate that there are going to be some significant challenges and significant blowback different forms as the skills as there would be with anything new. It's the same reason that there are thousands and thousands of thousands of people who die on highways in the United States. I don't know what the timeframe would be week stay month, but nonetheless, it is stadiums full of people die it on mobile accidents, but if one person dies in a tough. That has some degree about hottest driving it is news and headlines. Everywhere, and I I fully anticipate that even though you could go to any er and finds both critical patients and deaths caused by things that you can the over the counter like Acetaminophen in liver failure assisted with that when there are, it's not if when there are human tragedies associated with psychedelics because there's Certain scale achieved just given the law of large numbers. There are going to be complications there are going to be cases they get a massively disproportionate response from the media in negative coverage. These things are going to happen if we are successful in making this widely bill that is part of the I wouldn't say reward that natural outcome of this reaching some degree of scale and. So. While it pays to be optimistic and there are many reasons to be optimistic for planning perspective this is going to be if it is successful, very challenging, we will need to have very organized groups of people like those for doing drug developments at handling other capacity than knobs who have thought this through ahead of time also PRU with the decree movements nationwide and the various initiatives in Oregon it's challenging to think about sometimes possible the second third fourth order effects of difference innovations, different changes, regulatory modifications, and so on. But I think it's very important because this is not going to be easy and we're GONNA need more than hope as James. Cameron. Directors that hope is not a strategy. Is Not a strategy fortunately though more and more people are involved with the space. Has Spent a lot of time working on strategies, other areas. So I am optimistic but I'm not relying on hopes. I thank you for that while I think you're absolutely right and it could not be more important that we as difficult as it is sometimes and as much as we are struggling as a community especially right now to take our time to make sure that we usher these medicines in in the right way know they do have the capacity to spread contagious? sixties and seventies, and we saw what happened I think even now there are if you really WanNa to embarrass an you know there's hundreds of thousands if not. OF PEOPLE DYING OF OPIOID related deaths every year, and yet we are seeing more news about people going to the jungle in Peru or in South America. When one person has or two people have a negative consequences as a result of an Iowa ceremony when they forgot to stop taking their antidepressant medication or some medication fact that was combined with the WASCO that caused a negative result that resulted in someone having either a psychotic break or dying. which is still extraordinarily rare and yet that becomes something that the mainstream media ends up associating with these medicines, which is so unfortunate and at the same time I think it just serves a constant reminder to us to be extra extra careful I did want to mention one thing that stuck out to me about your work, which is again, going back to helping distinct ties these medicines, distinctly ties trauma, and mental illness in our communities at large. One of the things that a lot of people don't actually recognize and I think a lot of doctors themselves don't recognizes for doctors and caregivers. We're not really allowed to admit mental illness in fact as a physician. We can have our licenses taken away for were having a diagnosis of mental illness in our medical record if that ends up getting reported to our licensing board or if it gets found out by our licensing board and we did not report it there are all of these different putative restrictions that can really impact our ability to even provide care, and this isn't just for doctors. This extends to anyone who is board certified as a care provider with a license, which is really quite destructive because really makes you realize that many of our physicians especially on the front lines right now are facing symptoms of out. But we can't admit it or seek care easily because as soon as we do, we directly jeopardize our ability to deliver said care and that such a wild paradox in the way that we wound up having ultimately as a result of that more physicians and more caregivers on the front lines who have potentially untreated symptoms of mental illness, and we could have the alternative which be caregivers and physicians on the front lines who have adequately addressed their issues because of overwork work, related stress, or stress of training, and the trauma of training or whatever it might be, and yet that is not being addressed and it's being. Punished because mental health and physical health are still looked at separate things. You would never see a doctor lose his license for having a coronary bypass episode, for instance, which is much more dangerous and brings me much closer to death than most mental illnesses and I was wondering from your perspective Tim as someone who is a non physician kind of looking at this how do you see our society overcoming this? Incredible? Stigma of mental illness I'm glad you didn't ask me how to overcome the stigma as of associates or maybe you are specifically to licensed professionals at the born to keep in mind this does not just apply to physicians and she flies to police. Officers applies to airline pilots or pilots of any type implies to truck drivers advice to anyone license I. Don't have a quick answer to that I don't actually even have. Answers that. So I hope other people are working on it but I don't have an immediate answer to that I can say that I personally as a friend worked with a police officer who was in exactly the position he was suicidal and he was on duty carrying a firearm everyday sweetheart beautiful human being understood how precarious situation was, and yet was not in a financial position to go to his careers and ultimately ended up referring to a chemi clinic for the five or six intravenously delivered fusion sequence, which was extremely helpful for him but the fact that. He had do that covertly. It's fucking absurd and patently fun student that -standingly nuts viable solution so I don't have an answer to that. I wish I did. But I think telling that type of story can catalyze. Those were a position to perhaps make change or implement policies were by people get paid sick leave or otherwise not fear for their livelihoods paint renter put food on the table for their families, but I don't have A. Solution to that and just so I can I can. Address my flopping around with numbers does making estimated thirty, eight, thousand, eight, hundred people lost their lives to car crashes four point four million were injured street enough to require medical attention. So their numbers. And I want to mention just one more thing just because come up with few times. I've a decent amount of exposure Taiwa I would never recommend that much less going out of the country South, America to consume Iowa's as a first Rodeo, probably, not even a temporary. There are very particular risks involved that would take hours to fully flush out here but suffice to say that if you're traveling on skis for the first oriented five minutes, probably not a good time to go skiing, it's always to me. The thing I saw everybody is always start low go slow titrate up if you're going to get experience with psychedelics start with the lowest possible dose. In my practice, I actually start to loud are pretty low dose of subway glow ketamine and then graduated them up to economic dowse and I found that like it's pretty darn stave and they'll feel like they're more full of their experience and I also have had decided to go to Peru and save. They're they're ready to that kind of work and they have friends have guides they have repeatable sources. I've had people who had lifelong depression literally something remember being tiles being depressed have complete recovery. So even though I'm not recommending, you will go to Amazon job Honest by the fact that there are miraculous recoveries in certain people with the right guy the right setting a write operation. You know like I. Actually Be Gateway Drugs that are safe and recommended by doctors enlightened people need the training wheels I've always described like this. You start with grading those who underwriter by running a bike mountain bike you learn to. Drive car, and then you learn to fly a plane and then when you have you been a pilot for a long time and maybe you're ready but I don't recommend people go from assembling enemy clinic like five mud on T. lakes that meet. It's super irresponsible and there's a lot of people don't realize just how dangerous drugs be and I know. People who've had like you said, Bill Lives Whitley alternate negative way to know that these are powerful tools but they are also dangerous and the he'd be the hands professionals. So it's Kinda fascinating. I feel like last year San, Francisco we variance this kind of total renaissance, a psychedelics and there was a lot of responsible behavior but at the same time it led to so many people figuring out Oh, my God, these change, the world we can maybe bring these to market and it's led to a bar conservative and steady approach to legalization. There's a lot of work. That needs to be done and I just wanted to add on short. You're saying about sedition suicide, Dave's There's a great tie by Dr called Y doctors seldom cells at it's potent it's powerful. It's all about this factor of doctors are suffering or than ever, and they can't tell anyone and you know it's really a huge problem and I think for them to not just for the patients physicians and so what's really cool about even ketamine assisted therapy and what's waltz is doing what you've been doing with him is fellow training actually brings together auditioners in. and has them sit together and experienced psychedelics got are so that they have firsthand knowledge of what this medicine do I'll let dave taken from there by the this is a really exciting time to be a part of this event. It is David you don't mind I'm just going to jump in with. Spatial and that is these your comparison Bali with the station. We don't need everybody to astronaut I'm saying I've extended you're not playing it but just to underscore this, there is to be a comically imprudence cultural norm with the psychedelic circles, which is you start with a you go to be than you do see that you do e.. and. You have to progress from starting with academy in May or wholesome breath work your work your way up to society Bentoel issue then to this into that, and then at step seven year at five pm t there is to my knowledge, a single indigenous culture. The does this. Be Super. And have spent time with quite a few indigenous cultures have cultivated. These noticing traditions were certainly their own indigenous, the body need which can span hundreds of thousands of plants. It's also easy to forget that these are not psychedelic colors are cultures that use psychedelic for very specific purposes, which by the way have often centered at least in South America on warfare at hunting. So just put that in proper context, but it is not necessary to fuss with every tool in the toolbox maybe you just need to hammer and sickles and guess what hammers. Going to be fine for that, he's trying to get to pull out the power saw start cutting corners of your house, which is what I see. A lot of people doing in this space. It can be very, very dangerous if you think that you haven't or you cannot tumbled in humbled, you just have not met. The right molecule to write goes I guarantee you that there is something that will completely unraveled you fry Davies five meal if he's got to see maybe it's just state and you took three hundred bucks instead of one hundred. Totally agree with that and also just added a caveat that there are contraindications to psychedelics I mean there are plenty of states that will keep you from being a good candidates that these sense like Ketamine alone can cause schizophrenic symptoms to emerge and cutting emergent phenomenon. It can cause high blood pressure caused seizures like there are risks and has to be fully informed before you consent to any of. These medicines and as you don't know what you're putting in your body, you have a really bad experience in could change your life to the negative forever and so a warning labels just like all drugs have yet most people don't read most prescribed drugs at the pharmacy and they don't open up a little booklet. They don't realize that there are always forceful things that can happen you do Rog. Take the wrong dose or Evian's not right for your body, and yet we have a drug culture that is looking for the next big thing, and so we definitely don't want this to become only the didn't work. Maybe I tried this this work, my dad, and that's frankly the culture right now and it is a big huge risk of this movement because there are so many different compounds and. Companies literally every day I hear of another company that seed funding to develop their special molecules. They're going to patent that they're going to figure out to be next big drug and insect Alex along, and so there's a lot of things that we need to be thinking about a one drugs approved I mean we need to think about okay like what are we gonNA do when they're fifteen days and? Make sure that people don't end up habitually consuming specialist thinking they're just going to get fixed by taking a psychiatric medicine for more thick dad's Say. One more thing in seventeen new things but. The point I was GonNa make his shoot enforce a lot of what you just said. These are very powerful compounds they can be used safely with proper screening and protocol. And if you approach any type of work with psychedelic medicine in the way, you would approach getting complete reconstructive surgery or neuro surgery you will probably be fine. You would not go on craigslist find orthopedic surgeon to replace Your name, and let's similarly on facebook to find some. Shaman to have unprotected spiritual sex with you and say. It's likely not going to turn out very well, and if you look at this, just in terms of significance, as you would win to two diligence planning for something like near hip replacement were neurosurgery than probably tick all the boxes of proud and safety that are important aside from the about specific screening and and sewn to me. Wondering. Top WanNa let people asked if I know I just got a text from a friend who is asking him specifically vowed. Why he felt by the meal was the last stop on the train and I don't really understand questions I'm wondering if it's time for us bring Individuals on ask questions like do we WANNA go there awarded Wednesday this have you day some questions just to touch on that person's question I think a lot of folks in the. Community. View fighter mio is like the efforts of psychedelics I don't operate within that paradigm. So I have my own thoughts on five uses and abuses, risk factors, but I don't do it as the last stop view it as another tool in the toolkit with much our band of application too much dour segment of the population. Yeah I think that's a great way to describe it. I. Think you just to Echo what both of you have been saying that you know what really talking about if anybody tuned into our last Psychedelic Club House with Dr Phil Wilson you know we really talk about healing. From the standpoint of the restoration of bounce, it's not about becoming a cyborg super altered state individual where you're constantly on the go go go and it's not about being asleep or living in some fantasy world for the rest of your life. It's about balance and the restoration and maintenance of balance, which is really the recognition that when we live so much of our day to day waking lives separated and feeling and perceiving a sense of separation from our minds and our bodies from ourselves from others particularly the time of a pandemic from ourselves and the earth in our environment around. US. The plants etcetera as Tim referenced these cultures in South America are plant medicine based cultures they live in harmony with the plants. They're not psychedelic cultures. It's a difference in perspective of balance in the healing and the restoration of balance really means the restoration of unity, a sense of union between ourselves and everything else around us in the universe, which is something that is so radically clear when we have these altered state experiences whether you're doing a holiday tropic breath work or a deep meditation or a MD Ketamine experience when I walked experience, the sense of union that really brings. US All together where that story between self and other whether the other is ourselves. Our own intuition are deep inner parts of ourselves that we were told not to respect growing up because they didn't get us anything that we thought was good or whether it's the earth around us were or people in our family or or whatever it is. It's recognizing that that sense of self and other is really a perceptive capacity is malleable and can change into these medicines, help restore or catalyze the restoration of balance and a lot of ways that allow us to heal and so approaching these. In that way with that foundation is critical to make sure that we're always not only respecting the medicine and what the medicine has to teach us, but also respecting ourselves in the process because that's what's going to be most likely to allow us to have the powerful transformative healing experiences that we want to get out of these medicine experiences and I do want to respect Tim's time. So let us know when you have to head out. We really appreciate it. So was the first one to ask me to ask questions I'll let him jump in whenever he's reading the G go next. Days Show I'm glad on. Be Listening, to podcasts. Discussion is very Molly debuted this lot about digital mental health tackle place plays. PSYCHEDELIC so. As Dave upon medical risks season. But now and I, think at the moment is steady going on with the whoop strep. Efficient 2021 kind of hateful view IDs coat dissolved in saliva so. Take, ten perspective on what he thinks about monitoring levels strengthen at where he thinks is limited monitoring. If we let that the the people were working, he wears bandages. There are lines was from its Wilson with psychedelics start to prevent that as you're seeing yourself kind of going above that. Threshold fully AC- deceased fix the question are. The kind words I am a fan of monitoring and tracking. Which is meaningful at that, which can be changed that other words. There are many devices you have advice the or ring. US Right now, there are other HR V. devices that I also used. For Resting State morning measurements I find driving very interesting. Cortisol fluctuates tremendously drought the gate week, saliva collection and reliability sometimes shelling. But the real question forbid, his are these levers you can poll are they meaningful and can you sufficiently isolates these variables in the best of a multi Chaos Pie that is real life outside of a laboratory. So those are the questions that are in my mind, but certainly looking at different types of physiological responses both incision and out of session are very interesting to me. It is going to be extra ordinary challenge maybe impossible challenge to Tribu some of the changes that we were able to monitor to. English. By. Wasn't due to feed suicide session or was it do shoot therapy session was due to the daily journaling that started after the therapy session was due to that single conversation with a parent that had been waiting on some heavily for twenty years. It's incredibly challenging to trace cause-effect between variables. Those circumstances as far as I'm concerned if it could be done easily and consistently the more data, we can capture the better even if they're slightly inaccurate by the algorithms are all subject to debate with say ward for or any of these devices but if they're consistently Inaccurate that makes sense than you can still plot trend lines that are very interesting. I want to add about that I actually am in the practice. Recommends, most of my patients that have chronic stress related mental health disorders where a lease circuit X. device. You can find link to it. It's got least dot com is a really cool eight Garvey Monitor. That is a little bit different than ordering an whoop because it gives you a derby visualize can throughout the day so it's a continuous monitor and I'm biased for its continuous monitoring but love that device all Dave device Apolinar, which is something I wear everyday modulate Darby and I think these tools are super valuable as adjacent tools to help people delay specifically where their stress in their life. is coming from a lot of people have no idea what's really stressful to them and they wear these devices nice say, Oh, my God I can't believe it's this person that I every time I talk to them I just had this mask stress response and it's fascinating stuff for some people family life people in the workplace for some people it's their inner lives but figuring out where your sources of stress are coming from being able to do something about the care about healing you are. Gina. This is tim reading genus question because we weren't able to get permissions time to use her voice and here's what she says. I'll paraphrase here my question is given the issues of the moment around sexism and racism, and the fact that a lot of sexism racism can be hard wired in the brain and these substances can really create the Malleability to possibly cure some form of sexism and racism. Have you thought of using these substances raising funds around this? Can we use things like May? To address sexism and racism answer that just because I'm very well versed in the structure did medical system medicine today is technology based program. So it's all about billing and coding for Disease States and right now racism are not disease states you can for with the icy Tengku and that means you can't actually prescribe for doing that but we do know that racist increase risk of diseases but there's probably not a good education right now for us to be able to administrative one could. Chime in on that, also than we can take a few more questions as a primary outcome, measure would be or or intervention. Molly is totally on point cy warranty. What she said it is possible in some types of design studies use secondary measures or even primary outcome measures related to conflict-resolution that are more observational in nature. So I do think that the perception sense of oneness and lack of separation that many of these compounds to produce have applications to conflict resolution and the demonization of. The other and within maps this has been looked at between Israelis and Palestinians for instance, and they've been a lot of promising reports. So I am optimistic that we can see those types of effects they then need to survive as fledgling giblets of reorientation, the brutality of reentering the real world with related pressures and habits and set of defaults travel behaviors. So that is the challenging part having realization in the experience less. So ensuring that as some durability over time requires very careful integration about the to. Eamon next. Thank you, Dave and soccer molly and really appreciate everything you're doing Sam. So important you talked about the factionalism in the psychedelic community and I think a lot of that comes round different perspectives of ethical considerations coming into commercialization and I'm curious what you think most pressing ethical considerations dead this burgeoning psychedelic movement needs to coming. So I'm in on death actually question. So obsessively during more time to explore this, but I'll give way very short version I suppose just as a disclosure. Of Sorts, I have not invested a very deliberately not allocated any money to any for profit veterans because I do not want to have her be perceived as having any conflict of interest that affects how I think about or speak to any of these subjects, and that's costly decision on my part. But to the one that I feel very comfortable with the ethical consideration, there are many ethical considerations could talk about sexual abuse within the context to south. America specifically happens elsewhere, but it's At least as far as I know the most prevalent culturally in South America, we can talk about number of different things Z. Most critical to get right I think is the management of intellectual property and preventing broad claims of patents such. That's We end up in a entirely non-competitive field or a world of psychedelic medicine where there are only a handful of players who filed patents to prevent others from entering the fuel, and this happens elsewhere it is known playbook. We have seen some of this already people who are funding. Legal jeans to object to via the patent office in the United States at least in also overseas broadcast claims. But if it becomes a land grab where a few companies who are aggressive with no counterbalancing opposition or watchdog found position are able to file very broad pat claims where there are perhaps capitalizing of the existing means of synthesizing certain molecules CETERA, they're. Trying to do something from the playbook of Big Pharma stabbed, Isomer, the grabbed the right handed version instead left handed version, and then they slap a whole lot of restrictions around it to hid other players from entering the field. I think that could be catastrophic and there are many different ethical considerations. From a practical, what can we do perspective? It would be keeping a very, very close eye on patents that are filed proposition and having the will to oppose patents that seemed too broad for for the good of the ecosystem to greg shoes she think neck. Override Zaida Greg as long as the anti of. I'll do those. This is Tim chiming in again with Greg's questions since we couldn't get permission for his voice recording. Here's the question. Thanks, Dr Thanks, Molly, and thanks Tim. So this has to do with other current issue of today, which is Kubat as you know, the global mental health crisis that's going on and everything we're facing right now ton of people are still isolated and I'm one of them meditation has had a huge positive impact on my whole life. But especially now along with a lot of stuff I got from your media which I really. Appreciate I'm wondering if there's a way and I've never gone into psychedelics at all and I feel like it would have apparently positive impact on me to even try a little bit in conjunction with the other positive explorations. I'm doing to try to curate the best self that I can do you or any of the three of you have suggestions on what one can do if they're still trying isolate in if there's any way to begin getting involved and exploring this process, are there any resources for that Yeah Shit everything on the Question Greg? My thought if you're looking for a non ordinary state of consciousness that can be used to facilitate the beneficial manifesting of the mind, which is literally psychedelic means logically speaking flying, manifesting there are. Available. That do not involve digestion. The one option would be looking ads, breath work breath facilitators who are able to work at a safe distance outside fence. You could look at something like holy breath we can practice for willing to do something outside could be seated separately there could face as one of their to be contact allowed up. There are means to us work and otherwise of achieving non ordinary states conscious that one could consider psychedelic without ingestion of compounds which of adult suggesting solo certainly without a lot of prior experience up. elsom. So I guess my loss wasn't a kind of positive economic debilitating Alger and I'm just wondering if you have. Any suggestions for. Overcoming like maybe previous like molded the clay and it didn't mold berry well How would you? How would you come out of that? Would you like try that again? Would you like to see buried b what would you read stuff? So. What did you take if you don't mind me asking? I think like Times. Book. Of opted for the doctors on this, I'll just give you my perspective I'll speak from personal experience is not prescriptive at informational purposes only. If, you have enough at bats and let's just say you are a class spinner. At a circular table, you press sake pedal with your foot and you spin clay every once in a while fell that he's closed go flopping over and become a little nest and. If you have enough repetitions with psychedelics. Eventually, you're going to have very difficult experience. I do not distinguish between good and bad trips I distinguish between safe and unsafe trips so. I would recommend I in general. It's cute but. Doing, some journaling with. Prompt questions about whether it was A. Bad experience for an unsafe experience or a difficult experience within a context if it is the latter. Then there may be juice to squeeze from it whether you should use not use the same compound and others leave that doctors. One thing that I will say is depending on individual tolerance and sensitivity. There are certain dose ranges that can be more problematic than others for people and one might think it is due to higher doses, but that's not always the case because psychedelics if we're talking about suicide been. Almost like different drugs, different dosages, it's a few taking a sub perceptual microdosing. Let's say fifty to a hundred milligrams. There's one effect which is almost like taking anti anxiety medication. It is mostly I would say if physiological response. And then you have to go all the way up to her ROIC per McKenna five grams of beyond. But. People end up getting stuck. If you're, GONNA use the airplane metaphor say you you consume the PSYCHEDELIC you're in the airplane on the tarmac you'd celebrate you have take off. The gradual sense you go through cloud cover quite often there's a lot of traits and then you pop through on the other side. Let's just say that top in through on the other side with three grams or more would be the equivalent of just crossing over the peak of the experience or pickens. A sometimes. Highly individual. But for something like the powdered homogenized mushrooms year, it could just be dried veterans celebrity mushrooms for a lot of people that wanted to gram range is going to put them right in the cloud turbulence and they will not pop through. and. That can be very, very fun settling. It can be very, very pleasant. A lot of emotions material can come up, but you are so firmly rooted in this ordinary reality still since that you don't feel quits to metabolize the real work with them us. I would say there's also a possibility. Although. It's likely was two hundred ribs of of civility. What she cognizant of certain dosage ranges moderate range sometimes being particularly challenging. But slowly, and you guys have any thoughts on her question mean for me to the Bassett. Out on another planet. So for me, that's A. Does Tim. Kudos user being a non physician I thought your response to that was excellent. Really really really valuable perspective on how to approach this and I think Tasha no there again as tim was saying. The bad trips or bad or uncomfortable experiences from psychedelic medicine or psychedelic drugs are not always actually bad. It's just that they're difficult and they need to be worked through a little bit and they can actually be stepping stones on our way to great personal growth. If the right support is there and so as a psychiatrist who works in this field I this all the time and one of my specialties, not to make Nicolas go on much longer but because I know tim needs to leave one of my specialties actually helping people. Integrate. Difficult and bad trip experiences. So if you want to reach out to me I'm happy to chat with you personally and we can talk through it or I can recommend you someone who can be a a good integration therapist for you sue specifically has experience with psychedelic medicines that can really help facilitate you you know working through this and coming out and then the side I want you to know without a doubt that these changes that occur in these experiences are almost never permanent almost never and it just requires the right kind of support the right kind of of you know. collaborate class of together to help you through it but you can absolutely get through this as difficult as it might feel right now, and just reach out to the doctor Dave Dot io, or you can reach out the on twitter at Dave Raven or on Instagram at Dr David Raven, and I'm happy to help you recommend you to somebody who can but thanks for bringing that up I. Really. Appreciate you felt comfortable bringing that up in a place like this. I think needs to be honest. You know about the experiences just let everyone know like it was safe but difficult experience like. I. Think. Tim was saying like unsafe saving you know journaling and let's say over the appreciate the desperately definitely follow us. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'll add one more thing that may apply to others nuts. If you have a challenging experience like that, it doesn't mean that you got thrown off the horse that doesn't mean that your tech. and in fact, you talked to anyone who especially tater you ask them to describe the more challenging experience than gone sideways if they don't have any the reality is they don't have experience. Where they don't have a lot of experiences and exercising. Trying to display as much self compassion in these circumstances as possible is very, very helpful particularly taking into account that you're using LSD, which has a particularly tricky long tail of low effects We're talking about eight to twelve hours and I should say that it has one out of every hundred people will have a twenty four to. Thirty. Six our experience that does happen a but let's assume that Europe is call it normal responder and even h twelve hour experience for a lot of people. The last four hours of that you will feel almost sober but not entirely in it can be. Very, challenging similar to the one to to ramp up dosing philosophy. Mushrooms. To navigate because your friends are talking to you eating crackers Blah Blah Blah other. New Questions, jokes and meanwhile like this. Sadness from killing isolate as as a child because avian see was absent the all of this swelling up inside of you. You don't know what to do. So LSD is I think a Particularly tricky in that respect because has a long tail of effect that can be very challenging so I would. Keep yourself also. Credit in that respect because it's it's very common that people challenge that Thomas out of it with the recency of the end, the tail end coloring the entirety of the experience that it's very common. That is very, very true. And thank you for adding that in and Tim I want to be respectful of your time. You've given us so much of it and we are so grateful and so grateful for all the incredible work you've done the capstone you know helping to de stigmatize, mental illness spread awareness of the importance of mental health in prioritizing it to all of us, and you know taking the time to you know to dedicate your your life's work to. Helping. The world be slightly brighter better place for all of us. We could not be more grateful and we really appreciate you joining us here on the first clubhouse. By, pleasure appreciate you guys facilitating so well, inviting me there's a lot more to come so which were excitement coming, and I'm looking forward to additional big news dot from me but from other groups around the country, and if people are thinking about or looking for a very high leverage place where a little capital goes a really long way, I mean, you can have billions of dollars of impact with a few hundred, thousand dollars I think. This. Is One of the very, very few space. Opportunity Right now. So reach out to people like like a Dave, molly others who are aware of attractive. High Leverage. Places to donate or invest and get engaged can think the marbles with. And I really appreciate you guys. We should actually take that advice. We have started a web page, two documentaries oxen I? Think one nearly cool next up, we can take it to list some of these investment opportunities that we have. You come across could potentially really move the needle. So Dave and I will get on that. That's really great advice. Thank you so much. For being here, offering your wisdom, your experience and your knowledge and your personal anecdotes and. Everything you have to say it's just been really firing I. Think a lot of people here. This is our biggest crowd so far so Really vaults have everyone in the crowd show up. What has Questions or comments on this Bill Fada contract near days. You on. Instagram Dr Mollie Dot Co. you can find me. Email. I'm too schooled me on my region but. You're you rock so thank you, Dave. Thanks again for hosting us. Pick everyone. And Everyone all the tall and also I suppose wonderful. Week. has a fantastic weekend and. Save after you say from decatur than necessary. Just. Hey guys this is tim again, just a few more things before you take off number one, this is five bullet. Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little more soul of fun before the weekend and five hundred Fridays. Every short email I share the coolest things I've found that I've been pondering over the week that could include favorite new albums that have discovered could include gizmos and gadgets all sorts of Weird Shit that I've somehow dug up. In the world of the Terek as I do it could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends for instance, and it's very short it's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend if you want to receive that, check it out, just go to four hour workweek dot com that's four hour week dot com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you'll get the next one and if you sign up I, hope you enjoyed. This episode is brought to you by the book how to lead by David Rubenstein David Rubinstein's one of the visionary founders of the Carlisle Group and host of David, Rubenstein Show where he speaks to leaders from every walk of life about who they are, how they define success and what it means to Lead Jeff Bezos Richard Branson Warren. Buffett Bill Gates Ruth Bader Ginsburg Phil, Knight, Oprah all of them and. Are featured in his new book titled How to Lead This comprehensive leadership playbook illustrates the principles guiding philosophies of the world's greatest game changers. In this folks pages, you can discover the expert secrets to being effective and innovative leaders past podcast guest. Walter. Isaacson has this to say quote reading. This invaluable trove of advice from the greatest leaders of our time is like sitting in an armchair and listening to the masters reveal their secrets, pick up a copy of how to lead subtitle wisdom from the world's greatest CEO's founders and game changers by David Rubenstein in hardcover either for audio, any books are sold.
Exxon Is On Trial, Accused Of Misleading Investors About Risks Of Climate Change
"Get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply Exxon Mobil goes on trial in New York today the state says it misled shareholders about the risks that the company faces from climate change it's a civil lawsuit this message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races other things are fast like Xfinity X. by World Walmsley N._p._R. News by Anti Fossil Fuel activists the company says it was honest with shareholders about how it calculated carbon costs if x loses it could be vulnerable to a string of lawsuits and others on mobile arguing that it defrauded the public for years by misrepresenting how carbon regulation would affect the company's financial outlook the case goes back to two thousand fifteen been intensive Canadian oil sands project some investors worried won't make financial sense under tougher climate regulations and while the details get a little wonky this is General Eric Schneiderman told PBS Newshour how its investigation could lead to legal action there's nothing wrong with with advocating for your own company which you're not allowed states that's because it had to give New York thousands of pages of documents and now lawsuits elsewhere will be able to use what comes out in the trial to build their own arguments law sued and more cities and states are doing the same thing they're trying to hold oil companies accountable for climate change. NPR's Laura Walmsley has story New York's Attorney General is suing the Martin Act it's the same law that's been used by previous attorneys general in the state to bring charges against big financial firms there's not a general law for better or worse against when reports found that while Exxon scientists were inwardly researching climate change to planets operations the company was outwardly casting doubt on global warming then New York attorney as with potentially big consequences this is the first case on alleged securities fraud about climate change ever to go to trial. Exxon says the lawsuit is politically motivated and driven to do commit fraud the state argues that Exxon used two different ways to calculate carbon costs and wasn't clear when it was using one or the other which had the effect of making its asset that's appear more secure than they really were that in turn affected its share price the lawsuit says and defrauded investors that would be a violation of a New York statute known as lying in general but there is a law against lying to shareholders. That's Michael Gerard a climate law expert at Columbia Law School he says one focus in the case will be Exxon's investment in the car.
12: What I Know Now
"If you've been enjoying last day I've got another podcast. You might like broken justice. Imagine you've been arrested for a crime but you can't afford a lawyer you're court appointed attorney has more than one hundred cases. She doesn't have time to take your phone calls. Will you get a fair shake in a new five part series the PBS Newshour takes a hard hard look at public defender system in Missouri one of the lowest funded public defender agencies in the nation. Meet the attorneys and prosecutors struggling to reform a broken system and meet Ricky Kid Kansas City man. Who spent his life in prison he says because of the failures of public defender that's broken justice from the PBS Newshour available? Wherever or you get your podcasts? If you are just joining us for the first time this next episode will make the most sense if you start listening to the last day from episode one. I might stop repeating this message at the top of every episode at some point but obviously that point has not yet arrived Enjoyed the show originally might somewhere happy. Look so as is the the case. Maybe six days a week five six six days a week. My mom was at my house and standing in the kitchen. We started diving into a way deeper conversation than the standard. Are you really going to let your kid play in the dog food and so I decided. Did you pull the mics. Okay now you talk testing you gotta get a little closer testing. Yeah it's good and get it on tape. So yeah I just feel like we did it completely wrong typhoid title. Yeah I know but I just didn't know better. I'd dependent on experts to tell. Tell me what to do. I just didn't know at the time. How critical medication was it's like? Now it's like so so easy now to understand yes but no one offered that option. I know but why didn't didn't we talk to an addiction medicine doctor. Or why didn't we in all honesty. Stephanie I didn't know they existed. Have you learned anything on the show that you didn't know everything. I've learned everything I would run to the addiction specialist. I would make make sure. Harris was safe and realize that for Harris and many others abstinence. This is just not going to do it. It's not an option. It's not it's not because you know what you know now. It's like Oh maybe he could've could've lived absolutely. You know I mean if we would have I keep saying that I keep saying if we would have which I hate to do. 'cause I don't WANNA put blame on us because you don't know what you don't know exactly Klay but it just sucks knowing now it makes it even worse. Yeah because it's like I mean I tell. Tell the people in my support group all the time you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time so you don't you don't feel like at All responsible if I did. I'd probably kill Myself Mountain. Say That I the only reason I can and survive is to have no guilt and just really feel that I did everything in my power to save my child and I really did for me. There's no going back now. Sorry filling the Harris became a heroin addict at the wrong. He became a heroin addict when everyone's becoming heroin it. It wasn't the wrong time it was. He was part of the thing a he was a part of the crisis. Now that I do do I don't know I just feel like there's a whole lot more information now than what we had. I really do do so hard interview. I'm sorry I don't do softballs around here like to play hardball. He liked the show. Oh my gosh show is amazing but it is amazing really and I know how hard you're working. God bless you in my mom slate Swedes. Not Fair Air Fare. This world has beaten her down right I'm Stephanie. What else wax? This is lasting Basically ambushed my mother Maureen Momo to my children into this hard interview interview but in general. She's a pretty good sport. It's not difficult to get her to open up now. The other fifty percent of my d a different different story a few hours after our chat. My mom sent me this text. Dad Doesn't want to be interviewed. Sorry my plan was to do a legit interview with both of my parents for this episode. But as I've mentioned before things don't go according to plan in my life ever so of course I record my mom off some shitty Mike's in the kitchen and now my dad is completely off the table Because it's really hard for him to go back there. It's hard for him to talk about this stuff. And that's what we're doing this week. We are talking to our parents since about where they are with their grief after losing their children which is something that no parent should ever have to do. It is a particular kind of torture to lose a child. And in my experience. Not to generalize MOMS and DADS deal with different Elaine Stephanos Mom Doreen she is with Maureen encamp. Mom I'm just looking at A text from daughter. Do you know that I get exactly like seventy thousand texts from her daughter every day. I know that's why she's texting me a lot. Less gotTA love MOMS but that is not what this episode is about for Doreen. Stefano's death marked the end of a long and painful period full of a lot of loneliness and also a a lot of exhausting mental gymnastics of the eggshell variety. She and her son were both just waiting for the other one to cross the line. Would he do something to prove he was using which she do something to call him out about it. Who would do the wrong thing I that was the whole thing was Steffano watching and waiting just watching every move listening to every thought every I couldn't call them up and say how are you because it would turn into you know how are you using are you okay are you high? That's not what I was asking of US asking. How are you so I had to change the way I I talked to him? So That's interesting. I mean yeah ah how are you become so loaded you know So how how did you. I know my mom felt the same way. How did you adjust the way you talk to him? Well he would he would He called me out on a few times. What do you mean how am I? I'm good I'm good so I had to say what's it's new Housework in what about this weather in a different opening so that it didn't seem to him like I was asking how. Oh are you and I mean I heard how he was just an his the way he talked you know. And or even the way he taxed I read into Texas so We texted a lot and and I would here in. This words That you know he wasn't doing well reading into texts is such a thing and it is an even bigger thing when one person is intentionally hiding self-destructive behavior. Hey vior that is killing them and it took Doreen a long time to get to a point where she could talk about all of this in the beginning. Winning re we didn't post on social media that He died of an opioid addiction. Because we just didn't want people to come out of the woodwork. And say you know if they used with him or you know or he bought stuff from them or whatever. Whatever the story was that wasn't what we wanted? We just wanted positive things about his addiction. We weren't probably weren't even ready. And so so we you know we shut down us Facebook let me just stop lay lace something out here. Social Media and death is a talks ick combination. No matter how you choose to handle it and it is fucked up that it plays into our grieving process. Now here's a fun. Example of that Harris died the day before my birthday And when I logged on first thing in the morning facebook did this big automated banner with balloons and Confetti and every time I'm someone sent me a condolence message that day facebook told me someone was wishing a happy birthday because apparently the robots have not caught brought up with the complexities of public grief and honestly Harris was so sardonic that he probably would have thought that this was hilarious. I mean and I think you would have thought that I'm pretty sure Jackson. I compared notes on this. And when you're person dies you truly do wonder what they would think about everything if they were still here and it's particularly hard not to wonder what they would think about the show that is about them It's definitely needs me in the afterlife. He might be like Yo what the fuck I mean. It's cool and all good show but what the fuck But it has been for for our family. I think it's been partially intensely painful I also think it's been partially to Arctic Nick and I I think overall it's been a good thing you know. Dad's in particular are. I'm stereotyping but I think it's harder for them to talk We do our best to get a data talk after the break. We catch up with Steph now Cordova senior. ooh You spend one third of your life sleeping so you should be comfortable. The original Casper Mattress actress combines multiple supportive memory foams for equality sleep surface with the right amounts of both zinc and bounce that cradles natural geometry. And all the right places Casper Casper mattress feature a breathable design that helps you sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night with over twenty thousand reviews and an average of four point. Eight stars across Casper Amazon. John and Google Casper is becoming the Internet's favourite mattress. Maybe it's time to make it. Yours all casper. Products are designed to Velapan assembled in the US with affordable prices races because Casper cuts out the middleman and sells directly to you. You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's one hundred nights risk-free sleep on it. Trial Hassle free returns. If you're not completely satisfied identified. Get one hundred dollars towards select mattresses by visiting Casper Dot com slash last day and using last day at checkout terms and conditions apply that's casper dot com slash. I last day and using last day at checkout. Did you know that break in Spike. Every single year during the holidays burglars know that families are traveling and people leave if they're new expensive gift lying around and what's crazy is that only one in five homes have home security a lot of security companies. Don't make it easy with long term contracts or astronomical nominal monthly fees. That's why my choice for home. Security is an easy choice. It's simply safe. A comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right eight now is the best time of year to get a simplisafe security system for the holidays you get a huge discount on your security system and a free security camera simply simply safe protects every room door window with twenty four seven professional monitoring with fair and honest prices go to simplisafe dot com slash last day. Now to take advantage of simplisafe's amazing holiday savings and get a free. Hd Security Camera. This offer is for a limited time only and it's ending soon so hurry that's simplisafe dot com slash last day to save big and get a free security camera simplisafe dot com slash last day. ooh back the thing about daddy said they feel just as deeply as everyone else but they don't lead with it. They lead with Italian greetings how do you say. Hello how are you an Italian Komo Bongino. What's the second part coma Blah Blah? I got on the phone with him immediately after I chatted with Orene and even though I had I heard from Jesse that he was listening I wanted to hear it from the source Divan My first question is Have you listened to the show. Yes indeed yeah I listen. I listened to a couple of days. I even listen a couple of times just to absorb more more information as a reminder Stephanos senior lives in Seattle with his wife Ni Liu and their two kids who are both in their teens. Steph was really close to his step mom and his siblings who were all very invested in his recovery. We did a lot of research about What could help him in? Especially when any mood with us and stay with us or Mosa here And we knew it come in then. He was addicted to Erin. We didn't know at the beginning. Why was it's all about and you know we have a lot of meeting the doctors and so forth and then we had a big push almost went to court for him to be able to get an education that needed and he was fine for you know for the last six months Stephanos senior falls into the camp with me and Jess? We are are doers. There is no problem in this world that we cannot fix argue or research our way out of except for heroin addiction. I mean that took all of us down and as a fellow manic Google investigator knowing that he couldn't find a solution in time is still agonizing. Because because just like Doreen steph senior. Knew when his son wasn't doing well the only difference is that he wouldn't play the egg shell game with him he would actively call him mm out on it. We're not used to call them. One time to go to go show me Let me know. Let me call the doctor for you or let me call the doctor mixed with a you went and so forth Stephanos senior new few things before listening to the show now he knows a lot of things and frankly those things just make him wish. Wish he'd intervened even more aggressively. I knew maybe like ten or twenty percent over the the research and if I knew dowd eighty percent was no way is going to leave my feminists if I knew more than I knew and now I would said because there was no way aid that staff is anybody likes to have was able to Manage it you you need. You need to stay with your family family. You needed to be watched by family. And for and I know he's you know people say oh we want non those conditions none of those conditions in your son even after thirty thirty five whatever you take him to court you kidnapping you break his legs. You what whatever you have to do with the story. You're going to save it so you have no choice you know you. That's that would be my if I knew more than I know now do do you remember when when Xena an episode six was talking about how it takes five years for your brain to be Zack. In so what I what I what I said to myself. Now our new twenty percents on new you. What you needed medical attention? I knew needed for the family supervision for the family consistently right but if I knew it took five years if I knew it when I when I knew now a Beijing based on the show I that I don't know where he was going to stay in Boston for Stephanos senior. Boston is the sticking point. He always knew his son was struggling but he felt felt like if Stephanie was under his roof under his surveillance he could keep him safe. Like you would do with a two year old or a prisoner but Stefan junior on your wasn't a prisoner and he wasn't a toddler he was a man who fell in love and wanted to start his life and that life was in Boston So senior tried to at the very least recruit others to keep an eye on his son and I told everybody I says you know anytime you she anything or whatever it is I even when the first time I met Is Relatives in Massachusetts. At least one guy is No against him getting married. I don't food comfortable. Because he's leaving both rally Seattle's number with me but anything that the the the you bound him or anything like that. I needed to know I and I was very specific and because I knew it I knew that the this happen and I said to him you same boss. You're not just just in case. You missed that. He told him if you stay in Boston. You're going to die. And then I found out that they had overdosed three times. And nobody called me up. No imprecisely that. That's that kind of stuff that he needed. So when when When when I talk talk to myself or when I you know we talk home? I said you know. Knowing that he was medically a mentally in necessity and it takes years and Obviously the more I listen to a shorter more idolize much. I didn't know but I at a sense of it. He needed my perfection. He busy needed to be with me. You no and Neil Lou and the kids and just you know watch him and make sure that for the next year to year. Four Years Hugh into the medication story. He wouldn't go back doc realizing that Steffano had been in this overdose cycle leading up to his death remains the hardest part of the story for for him to accept. That Boyd doesn't go more only because I I thought the trusted me. This is devastating as you heard at the top of the show. My Mom has forgiven herself for the thing she didn't know. But I relate to Stephanos senior here the more I learn the more I look back with regret and I feel like he's along for the ride with me on this. It Sucks to know now bandwagon. ooh I remember when we spoke the first time you know you said that you had this impulse. This instinct that he should not be in Boston but that you didn't really listen to it. You know you were like Oh he's happy you know. He had the good job and there was a voice in your head that was like he really needs to be with me. It seems like listening to the show. How has just strengthened that resolve for you absolute absolute? It's you know either Grad. Every day I would not eat them push and then I I sit through myself. Did I do out of laziness. Yeah I do because You know is the easy way out. Oh you're going to be fought away and so forth and You Know Yeah Yup Yup. Yup I blame myself I blame myself. You Know Northridge that myself photo. Nobie me you know nobody me. Meaning you know your gut feeling tells you why you supposed to do off. Don't talk yourself out of it. Stephanos senior holds onto the blame. It has not gone away and this feels really familiar to me because my dad feels the same way. How do I know that you ask? Since he refused to talk to me. Well well I was at their house specifically to record my mom reading her text about how he refused to talk to me when all of a sudden he pipes up and demands to. I know why I won't talk to him. I mean it's madness. He was sitting there on the couch and his pajamas. Drinking shove which is basically basically like liquid spinach or Borscht. I don't know it is really gross. You just speak right into what in the fuck is that. You don't have to talk. Shove would have shops sue speech cold. Borscht is why what he thought. I literally had my recording equipment in my purse so I just through the Mike and his hand before he could change his mind and asked if he blames himself any less now than he did. Initially no later sir. Sure you blame yourself. Yeah well there are a lot of reasons that no don't need to be gone into this point auto. Budapest not my audio podcast. No I have my reasons have certain things and I just don't WanNa talk about us. Did you this initially stumps over fusing dad's can't live with them can't get Adam to say what you want them to say on your podcast okay. So he refuses to say why he blames himself and the blame hasn't decreased so is it worse. Maybe a little bit. I mean you know. Listen everybody's giving a mother and a father the mother and father both to take care of the kid the way it's always a kid to the Barrett like my Dad Stephanos senior. Can't shake this guilt because it's part of that core for a belief. A kid is always a kid. Apparent and a parent's job is to keep the kids safe and to love them and Stephanos senior. Always did that part very very well. In the fact that the factor. That's most important thing. The nineteenth steph relies on the time. I never looked at my son as a drug addict. I just don't somebody was sick. We need a medicine. That's the I learn. Maybe like a year before I would say it's all you know you're screw had You know Blah Blah Blah Blah. You know you idolized that that they they need help. They need help and he says I know you always consider me had drug I s Steph off your head. You know drug. If sick they need help what I kept thinking when I was talking to him as that we had the same conversation six months ago. Now it's just a little bit sharper. A show has an alleviated his guilt. It's reinforced it on the other hand. When I was talking to Doreen I couldn't get over? How much she's changed more from her after the break As we all know it's not always easy to confide in family and friends and the best advice comes from people who are unbiased. 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Well I've recently learned about something that clearly makes shopping shopping for life insurance entirely more palatable. It's called policy genius. I tried it out on their website policy. Genius Dot Com and it is shockingly easy you put in some really basic information about yourself and in minutes you can compare quotes from the top insurers to find the best coverage and price you could save fifteen hundred dollars or more a year by using policy genius to compare life insurance policies. If you need life insurance but aren't sure sure where to start. Why not start a policy? Genius Dot Com. It only takes a few minutes to find the right insurance policy. Apply and cross another thing off your to do list a really important thing policy genius when it comes to life insurance. It's nice to get it right. ooh ooh we're back with Doreen for years. She's been part of the Alanon community. And if you don't know what that is. Alanon is the companion support group to a it's for loved ones family members and friends of people with addiction. I want went to our non for six years. I stood up in front of everyone I went to every speaker event or I could speak about stuff. You know about him being an addict about him not wanting to be an addict about his struggles and how I was helping me to to like live through it. I was absolutely absolutely paralyzed for. I think maybe fifteen years I was a shell of myself because I didn't I was so immature about every single thing every single aspect of my life because I didn't know how to handle his problem problem. I couldn't control his problem. I couldn't help him and I feel I'm not. I don't know if I felt bad. But I- gentrified defied myself as a failure and so there were so much I couldn't so many things I couldn't face and only since the show came on did I feel like I grew up because the show to me gave me permission to grow up and forgive myself and touch. Uh think about the whole thing in a different way since Stephanos story has been put out there for all the world to hear. She's found around the sense of courage and strength that she didn't even know she had started to face problems that I couldn't face Senate I feel the PTSD like coming out. One layer at a time. You know I called financial coach to help me in retire in a few years and the old me with never I would have thought I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay in like kind of swimming against the tide because that's how I lived my life. Somehow I woke up every morning and stuff was waking up every morning and go into work. He was a functional addict addict. And so we lifted in this crazy world in all liked just not knowing what was going to happen having no control sewn. I'm taking back in my life and a female soul good and I thank stuff now you know and I thank God because I had to pray every day AH better And learn not to heat. I mean I hated everything and everyone. I was not so much blame but I just I was so talk and at one eye shut all of that. I feel better in a way. The dads I have calcified but Doreen. She's metamorphasized wow it's it's like becoming a butterfly or something. It's like well or being released from prison or you know it's definitely been released. It's been released for my own Negative thoughts against who. I was And I'm not pointing fingers or saying anything 'cause we all are damaged from promise but but People WanNa turn and look and say. Why didn't you know why didn't you tell me in? We're all looking at each other in A. Why didn't you say that one inches say this? What we all knew we all knew and there was nothing we could do? We did every single thing we do. We paid for intervention. We sent Komo Way. We watched them go to intervention. We talked to him. We you know we begged him. We tried not to talk to him. We gave them all of these guidelines or set deadlines. So what are you going to do for yourself. He knew he loved him. He loved us but but what we were damaged. We're so you know it's just so hard was just so hard and and now the only thing I could do for him in honor of him is to get better and live my best life for just for my girls for Eli. That's all I have and I want them to be proud that you know we did it together and then on refund I I I just said I have to do it so you know I pinpointed all the things that hurt me hurt me to do you know cause me such stress and and Procrastination and I don't want to live like that anymore. More and so I told Jus- and I told the ally for the first time in my whole life. I feel regular just the word regular. CHILLER NOT EUPHORIC NUT is regular. I could sit down and watch TV. And I think Oh my God I have five minutes minutes were I don't have to be stressed. I don't have to worry about who's calling and what's GonNa be in the mail and you know who's going to email me something terrible. It just feels good. You know it just feels regular. I relate to that so much. Oh Oh my gosh yes. It's like that that I feel like when you have had severe trauma or you have PTSD. And you've had. I've been living with this. You know stranglehold of anxiety the feeling of regular is just the best. It's it was like eating the best meal winning the lottery in having the best weather sitting on the Hawaiian beach with eighty five degrees and rainbows everywhere. That's how it felt regular and there was no other word that could describe it on an feels. Good feels good to take your power. We're back and to say No I am not gonNA have toxic people in my life. No that doesn't feel right so I'm not GonNa do who it is going to change the course of my life. I don't WanNA visit that island. I'm on a visit my home and you know I wanted to speak sailing pulling peacefully on. It's just that's how it feels and I didn't have any of that before I listen to us. The Doreen did everything she was supposed to do. She went to Alanon for for years. She was always there for her son responding to every text phone call an e mail with the grace and compassion that she was advised to show a person struggling ailing with disease but through all of that she always felt like shit because she was in this prison of trying to do the right thing. So it's fascinating that in terms of her healing process. It took listening to her story. Reflected back it to her and feeling sympathetic for the characters in that story which just happened to be her and her family to finally set her free wall. Stephanos senior hasn't discovered Doreen sense of freedom. He does feel very warm and fuzzy about his daughter and her podcast gas partner me. It's it's me. You must be very proud of jess proud of both of you. No it's true it's true You guys are so complementary. But he's my impact to. That's what I think you adjust you have in common. The you know the the death of your brothers is just as park. Because it's in you. Okay how do I make humanity better. It's not about me it's about everybody so that's why I'm proud of you guys so now that we have had this chance dance to look back at where we started. It's time to look ahead to where we're going up. Until this point we have been exploring the OPIOID Loyd crisis through the Lens of one person's story and that person was Stephanos Cordova Junior. We started with him on his last day A.. And since then we have been zooming out and zooming out to see if his story could give us all of us any answers on how we've gotten in here and parts of it do have been intensely eye-opening but we aren't done because there are so many different stories and yet to be told and heard so that is our plan for part two of this season to highlight more stories more voices and and more last days and next week of you. I think the holidays are hard for the same reason. He's not there mark for everybody the holidays but all this pressure on you to buy gets unhappy with your family and how yourself and have fun in need joyous and Dan those demands really hard on anybody that really hard on you. You are tied to learn how you buy groceries as for yourself for the first time or just e okay alone with yourself in your house for an hour. That's a tall order any time of year in order when everything is holiday holiday holiday. Damn remember handling Fats right. We are featuring our listener submitted survival tips for the holiday season. So you definitely want to tune in next week because you are a human being and you need to survive. The holidays. Last Day is a production of lemonade. Media this episode was produced by Jackie. Dans Accor- our series producer is Daniel. Roth he gins. Emma is our technical director and Jessica. Cordova Kramer is our executive producer and our music is by Hannah's Brown special thanks to Westwood One. Our ad sales and distribution partner. You can find US online at limit of media. That's lemonade like L. M. O. N. D. A.. And if you like what you heard today you should tell your family and friends and neighbors and all the people you see in the world to listen and subscribe rate and review us on Apple spotify stitcher wherever you happen to get your podcasts. And then check out our show notes for a deeper dive into what you've heard today and how to connect with our last day community of people who are marvellous and wonderful incredible. I'm Stephanie Woodall's Wax. See you next week. Then I want to tell you about a new tech news. podcast from recode called reset. It's hosted by aerials Ross. Former science reporter for the verge and the first climate change correspondent on American nightly news for vice news tonight every Tuesday Tuesday Thursday and Sunday area will explore the unexpected ways technology impacts our everyday lives. And how tech is fundamentally changing our humanity from authors authors using artificial intelligence to write novels to bio hackers altering their own DNA and hate groups using crypto currency to fund terrorism. These days his every story is a tech story and reset is going to show you. Why the first episode of reset is available now subscribed to reset for free on apple podcasts? Stitcher or your favorite podcast APPS. You never miss an episode.
Patty Murray looks to move forward on big issues after second Trump acquittal
"It's been less than a week since the us senate acquitted former president trump in his second impeachment trial. He was charged with a single article. Incitement of insurrection. Washington senator patty murray found trump guilty along with every other democrat and seven republicans on january. Sixth senator murray was hiding inside a room at the capital with her husband. As rioters forced their way into the building she told. Pbs newshour. that rioters were just inches away from them behind a door. Oh suddenly they were in the house. They were yelling. They were yelling that they had breached castle. They were yelling. Kill the infidels. And we heard somebody saying we saw them there in one of these rooms and they will pounding on our tour and trying to open it and my husband sat with his foot. The door praying the I wasn't not safe earlier. Today i spoke with senator murray about the aftermath of the senate trial and what comes next for the new congress. I started by asking about her reaction to trump's acquittal. It was a fad moment for democracy. I felt it was so important that we stand up and say that we can never use fear or violence overturn a democratic election. We are a proud democracy. Who uses are words to make sure that we are fighting for what we believe in we can never become a third world country that at the behest of the president to keep the election results from happening uses brute force to try and make that happen. I felt it was really important. We stand up for that. And i was disappointed that not enough. Republicans went with us and many observers looking at the vote interpreted the acquittal as meaning that donald trump still wields quite a bit of power over republican voters. So what does this outcome. Tell you about the future of the republican party and how you're going to be dealing with your colleagues in the years to come well. I think the republican party needs to have a conversation amongst themselves about who they are. What kind of country they want. And what kind of future they want for this country in in a very important global economy and a very important global trend towards trying to make sure that people are treated equitably They stood up for those issues in the past especially for democracy. Both here and abroad And i think they have to ask themselves. Are we willing because of one man and a loud voice that we are fearful of change our policies. And we'll see what happens as you know it takes sixty votes to pass a bill in the senate and some my point to the fact that only seven republicans voted to convict former president trump as a good reason for the senate to eliminate the filibuster because if ten republicans wouldn't go along with conviction in that case why would they get on board with other nation in the past you've been a defender of the filibuster. Do you still feel that way. I always prefer to see people working together to get things done. Because the best policies that are long standing and don't get overturned another election are ones where you make compromise. Move forward But get things done. And but i can say that. A lot of people are sick and tired of the gridlock They see the huge needs in our country and the list of challenges growing urgent by the day. We are now pushing forward a cova package that we're doing through a bizarre budgetary process that allows fifty votes. I hope republicans vote with us. And i hope they see the importance of this. But that's how we have to move that forward and then moving forward again i think. Republicans really have to think about who they are what they stand for. What kind of a strong country they want. That is enduring for people everywhere. And i'm hoping that they will work with us. You know talking about this covid relief. Bill that the administration and you are working to move forward in this budget reconciliation process. You describe it as bizarre. If you continue to see the gridlock and that you may have to resort. To using that again i mean. At what point would you consider getting rid of the filibuster altogether as i am talking to republicans. I am hearing more and more of them. Who have the frustration. That i do that. Our country is falling behind because we are not moving forward on issues like paid sick leave on issues like childcare on issues like making sure our schools have everything they need to make. Sure all of our kids get educated and i am hoping that they will have the backing of more and more republicans. See the same thing in their communities and are conveying that to them We will see if they don't and they just continue to be a smaller and smaller constituency party. That just says no to everything. And who is willing to live under one loud man's tweets then it's detrimental and we'll have to have to figure out how i move forward. How we use the country move forward. How i can best represent the interests and fight for what's important in washington. State senator murray. You're now the chair of the health education labor and pensions committee. And we've touched on a number of topics. But i'm wondering what your priorities are. Pratt's your one. Single priority is for the coming weeks and months. Well the coming weeks for sure is to make sure that we pass a recovery package to deal with covert and that includes everything from increasing the amount of vaccines that are available To make sure we get our arms around the pandemic and everything that goes into recovering from the pandemic from texting to vaccines getting kids back in school in a safe environment making sure that people have what they need in terms of healthcare to deal with this and getting us back to what i would consider normal of a few years ago i think is an absolute priority but i also think we have to think about not just getting back to normal but making sure that what we have in place keeps us from ever going this road again and that means healthcare infrastructure. That isn't so far behind as we have been making sure that we have the kinds of policies in place. So if you are sick you can take some time off. And you're not spreading a disease like covert and that means paid sick leave. i think this pandemic has spread. Why the issues of That are so critical to so many americans who want to be at work and that's issue childcare. The lack of childcare The inability for people to go to work and know that they can do their job without worrying about where their kids are These are fundamental issues that we need to address the nation and one that i will focus on the chair of the health education labor. Pensions committee. Us senator patty murray of washington. Thank you so much for speaking with us today. Well thank you and great to talk to you again.
Bonus: Psychedelics and Biohacking Grow Up The Psychedelic News Hour
"Radio. Station high performance, you're listening to bulk radio with Dave asprey. In this special episode of bulletproof radio. We're turning the tables instead of being the interviewer as I usually am doing the learning I'm getting interviewed about something that I've been interested in for a long time psychedelics biohacking in the future of making people healthier. On a brand new show called the psychedelic news hour, which will soon be a podcast I'm interviewed by Dr Dave Robin MD WHO's been on bulletproof radio. He's a board certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist Executive Director of the Board of Medicine and Co founder of Apollo. Neuroscience. And his Co host is Dr Mollie belief who's a physician the Stanford lecturer and Ketamine assisted psychotherapist who's also been on both radio, and they are together at the leading edge of psychedelic science and future medicine, and since they've already been on my show, this native one you come on our show, which is a really cool format on a new Beta tested application called clubhouse, and it's a live interview formats and we discussed the past the present and the future biohacking along some audience participation. So tune in and listen to it here. I think you're GonNa really like what you hear. I WANNA let everybody know that I am hosting the show Psychedelic Newshour, which we are so excited to welcome you to with Dr Mollie Malloy who is a physician academy assisted psychotherapists, walls, Stanford lecture and I am a psychiatrist and neuroscientist Dr Dave and I'm also ketamine assisted psychotherapist as well. NBA assisted psychotherapist and we are hosting this show again to bring forth the discussion about psychedelics biohacking, which is a really really interesting and common topic of discussion especially in the valley right now but an any sphere of of technological creativity, and so we're very excited to bring you our featured guest this week. Dave. Aspirin on the founder of bulletproof and upgrade labs and one of the folks who is known for popularizing the term biohacking and really bringing it into our mainstream culture from there. I'll let you take it away Dave. Thank you so much for joining us I'm happy to happy to be our. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. So good to chat with you. Oh Yeah. Of course, you know immediately thought of you and we started having these conversations because the. Idea of altering consciousness to enhance our wellbeing our quality of life are human potential has been something you've been talking about for so long with respect to lots of different modalities. I think a lot of people look to you as at least one of the first, if not, the first person who really started popularizing the term biohacking and really discussing how you can use these different natural tools that we have available to us to radically enhance quality of life at our abilities. and. What we used to think was aren't potential, which may be were not so certain about anymore. Maybe our potential is a lot greater than we actually thought it was we were originally taught it was and you have been a really incredible contributor to the field of health about exploring and stepping outside of the box of what we're actually believe we're capable of and where we can go with our lives, and so we're really excited to have you here to sort. Of talk about the intersection between well your work in general. But also the intersection between psychedelic and biohacking biohacking became a word in the English language about I think twenty eighteen and strangely enough names actually in the definition and people call me the father biohacking because ten years ago when I started my blog I said, there's gotta be some kind of a way to pull together the anti-ageing crowd already been running anti-aging nonprofit group for almost a decade with the neuroscientist with. Elite athletes, and even with all these other things like deep sea divers and people were pushing the limits of human physiology, human biology, stem cells, and things like that, and then human spirituality and part of the reason that I wanted to do. This is that I did do I owe Oscar with a Shaman in in Peru I think nineteen, ninety nine if I get it right back when you go down there. and. They wanted to do it and they looked at me and said, gave your white and I said Yeah I know and they said this is only for locals you'll throw up why would you ever want to do this and I said I don't know I I feel called to do this. I want to experience this and I did on the side of a hill looking over some ruins called a sexy woman. I try to say it not like sexy woman, but it sounds exactly like that when they said and it was a profound spiritual experience perhaps not as profound as whole tropic breathing that I did you know it with standoff shortly thereafter but in the same universe and I just realized you cannot talk about I'm GonNa live forever or I want my I q to be twenty points higher, which is entirely achievable. Via different methods without also addressing the elephant in the room, which is spirituality, and I believe that plant medicines of the things I do at burning man ritual. All of those are incredibly important to the human experience, and if we just say, Oh, we're meet robots like some of the anti-ageing transhumance crowd. You're missing the point here and all of the states of high performance are altered states otherwise, they'd be average states. That that's why psychedelics are part and parcel or maybe we just say that's my altered states are part and parcel to accelerating yourself as human being it looks to me like different plant medicines and some synthetics can open the doors for you to to step through and learn about these states. There are almost always alternative methodologies. Some of the neuro feedback work that I do a minor feedback company we actually have the ability to help you. Get into the same state that you might get into from plant medicine and we're actually running a few experiments now to see if we can tweak the protocols and settings to make it more accessible because let's face it. If you have certain kinds of life insurance, certain kinds of legal risk or certain belief systems whatever else you might not apply medicines or maybe you have a problem with methylation and maybe you shouldn't take five me at. DM MT because it's GonNa take you three days out of your system and all of these are not things that should prevent us from seeing what happens when parts of our brains chill out and other parts. Branston. Come forward. So that may be an opening. But where do you WANNA go with this? I mean, do you want to go there without drugs or what so many things to say just based on what you just said the first thing is is That the funny thing about your career she's so interesting is about five years ago I started working for a company and I was kind of being somewhat labeled as female bio hacker and one of my bosses was like Oh. My God you do not want to be a bio hacker that's just a trans that's just a Buzzword, and that also implies that you're kind of going around the healthcare system. You don't want to be known for that and actually looking back. He was completely wrong because not only is being by hacker something I'm very proud of, but also it's something that is it's beyond a trend now like it's actually an entire market, I mean there's companies and startups and products and services, and all sorts of things that are coming from this movement and I think biohacking you sort of see that's we planted for this consumer driven healthcare system that's emerging from the demands of what consumers have that they're. Not, getting from the current healthcare system, but which is like you know enhanced resilience better brainpower longer life all these things that people want, but we can't get healthcare right now. That's exactly why I made biohacking a movement. That's why did not trademark the term when I would have because I wanted it to be much greater than me and it was specifically to disrupt medicine and I. Don't mean the kind of medicine that you practice in that so. Many of my dear friends practice I mean the institutionalized system of medicine that's trying to remove healers from medicine and take that away. So that basically healers become robots and you have three minutes per patient and you will follow this algorithm for each patient that is actually not healing and it doesn't work and it didn't work for me. When weighed three hundred pounds, it didn't work for me for a lot of the health problems I had I had. To Go, do it myself and frankly I was pretty pissed about that when I started on this journey and it's not okay. So there's a certain amount of health freedom. It's in there that says look, it's saying my biology, my body my right. If I WANNA put a plant medicine in there, that's my right and if I want to try a therapy that some people think is too risky but I don't it's okay for them to be wrong. It's not okay for them to prevent me from having access to something. Good idea is best for me and there's a very big problem without some. Thank you for stepping up and being an early doctor to say, I'm a doctor and a bio hacker, and it's because I want full access to the tools that are going to allow my patients to. He'll like ketamine, which is someone who'll substance totally and not he'll but thrive and flourish right like isn't this what medicines should be about it shouldn't just be about like okay, you're fixed now we're gonNA kick your hospital as soon as possible it should be about like how can I help you become the best hoswald version of yourself so you can contribute. To Society and your family and your community in ways that are generative for the world and I have to say that what I love about your podcast is that you have so many doctors that have been really fighting the good fight and almost like you've galvanize them in a way like doctors go on your podcast and it's like finally get this spotlight. That shows that they're actually different types of healers out there and ones that by the way are using really cool technology. Sometimes, it's psychedelic sometimes it's wearable sometimes, it's neuro feedback but it stopped doing things differently and I think you've been a champion of those physicians that I really want to thank you for that because it's really important work that you're doing. Pets, really Kinda I know I've filled more than if you practices and it takes a certain kind of courage to stand up and the way you have certainly the way David has and to say, I am going to do something that is not the current standard of care from the nineteen seventies because every time you do that, you know at some back of your mind, are you putting your license at risk? Are you putting your livelihood? You're twelve years of schooling that it took to get to have this precious ability to be a licensed dealer, and so there's this inherent. Pain that I see I'm married to a doctor and so many of the people I respect that the very best doctors have been attacked by watch which is run by Dr has never treated a patient and his job is just to go out there and say anyone who does something new interesting are impactful is a bad person and he goes the reputations and so one of the things that has been a career defining moment for me I set a goal about fifty years ago I said I want to be listed on. Crack Watch. I'm not a doctor I don't qualify. And I got called out on the front page of the USA Today and they used Stephen Barrett from crack watch to discredit my bulletproof coffee thing help people lose a million pounds I'm like okay. But for me, that was like such a career victory because the people that I know and respect the people put their careers online moving medicine and healing forward moving. Human Progress Ford they all get targeted. So now that we have a biohacking movement now that we have functional medicine and now that we have a collection of clinical studies showing the things like Ketamine or mushrooms or MD may actually help with trauma and trauma causes physical ailments. It's getting to be kind of hard for the skeptic naysayers to just sit back there. Cross their arms and say, you're a bad person. You're not a good doctor because the patient's also know we talk to each other right and there are millions of bio hackers. Now, who say actually going to partner with my doctor and I know I've got stuff going on and I'm going to find a doctoral work with me so I feel like you know. We, there are cracks in the insurance driven system, and I also feel like you can take someone who's relatively fundamental in their belief systems. Someone who's you know fifty someone who doesn't believe any of the spiritual stuff and you can set him down and give them ketamine in a therapeutic environment and the coming out of the go out. Did I not know okay. Making progress they get unstuck and then they lose the weight then they stop acting like an asshole and all these incredible things happen but it wouldn't have happened unless someone is willing to say to use Kademi not a tranquilizer but as a therapeutic agent I've also got say you guys with what you're doing with Ketamine it's legal everywhere it's widely available as well understood and I have so much respect for the The people doing work with a medicinal mushrooms and md May like maps. The the problem is that that is a twenty year fight against entrenched drug law whereas right now, we can heal people with ketamine the difference between mushrooms and Ketamine for the average trauma. Healing isn't big enough to worry about right now let's start with Ketamine. Get people on the path and let's continue legalizing others. He I couldn't agree more than I. Think you really address that well, especially when during you talk about your own personal experiences with Ketamine, and the idea that going back to second what biohacking is and why it's been a stigmatized term right psychedelic also is a stigmatize term. We often think of psychedelic only referring to drugs or substances that induce these. Altered states of consciousness whereas you know that really couldn't be further from the truth. psychedelic refers to altered states of consciousness that can be accessed with meditation, tropic breath work and Ketamine, and then plant in Fijian's and plant medicines, as well as soothing touch and music and sound baths in all these ways to access these altered states of consciousness that facilitate powerful transformative psychedelic mind manifesting experiences that promote healing or does. The transportation similarly with the word biohacking I think a lot of people. I remember when I first learned about biohacking in the medical community at as a Western train psychiatrist at the way that I heard it talked about was this is artificially all touring your body to change things about yourself that are unnatural and that is such A. Incorrect understanding of the term because biohacking doesn't refer to natural or unnatural or way out one or the other it's about how to use whatever tools we have available whether those are in my mind i. see them as thought tools, technological tools who tools anything we have available to us to be able to help us cope with the stresses of modernity and really thrive as humans as individuals and as a community as best we can which I think is really incredible. It's very well put and I really thought long and hard. It took me about six weeks to create the definition of biohacking the first info graphic saying, what is this? Is there a space in it? No, there is no space in biohacking asking the community, but the definition was the art and science of changing the environment around you and inside of you. So that you have full control of your own biology and that's a uniting element. Someone who is in Hain who knows I don't know why I'm in pain I. Don't know why anxious all the time maybe I don't even know things. -iety but something isn't right. That is a state of biology that you don't want, and so you want to change it and. Medicines may be the way to do it these other experiential things or maybe you should stop eating the stuff that's causing biological stress that manifests as as emotional stress. All of those are acceptable, but it's it's the full control. It also unites you know someone who wins the Super Bowl like a nick foles with someone who says, you know what I just want to have enough energy after I drive to work for two hours in the morning drive home to be. With my kids and not yell at them it's self control and self controls part of evolution, and of course, they're going to have to go to the Gym Melissa. The heavier than you think you can sometimes, and maybe you're going to go us an entheogen that's going to push you emotionally beyond what you think you can handle and you're going to learn something and becomes stronger and more functional and more connected, and all of those are just environmental variables you change. Your Body listens your environment. You can change your lighting, you can change your food. You can change the vibrations that you're doing. You can get more. Hugs and yes, you can use nicotine or caffeine somehow those are okay. Plant medicines that no one object to I will some people object to smoking which they should but nicotine itself is different but those are ancient medicines that it used huge numbers of humans and we don't have that response or alcohol, but then suddenly say, Oh, I want to use something that's from a mushroom instead of from east and why we all lose our minds. Nineteen sixties CIA anti drug propaganda. I. Didn't even know why we draw a line there but I don't draw that line there. Yeah. I. Mean I think that there's definitely is new renaissance around psychedelics. That's immensely more mature than what was happening in the sixties I think there was for certain a free for all going on and people have kind of grown up and they've learned that maybe we should do our homework a little bit before we just put something in our bodies. And so I'm really excited about what the second Alex Movement is just a level of maturity that's becoming standard of care for either individuals that are experimenting with themselves or with physicians who are administering these medicines like there's Google group of doctors all around the country that I'm a part of and every single paper that has published in Ketamine we share every single news article. That's Anti Ketamine we discuss we are constantly. Sharing Protocols and safety recommendations and one practice actually sent me all of their practice documents 'cause I just requested I said look I wanna see how you guys are on boarding people on burning people my way I want to see how you guys do it, and the level of sharing of knowledge is so much different than I experienced in medicine where everyone was trying to silo their discoveries and basically keep things themselves. And there's a lot of problems with that in science at in research right now and what I really like about the biohacking community and the psychedelic medical is just how much knowledge sharing is going on because everyone in these spaces are like we're just trying to figure this stuff out as we go and we know that were way ahead of the curve and we know that things take about fifteen years to to go from the bench to the bedside in. So what's so cool about biohacking is that like there's actually a lot of discoveries. Being made and the biohacking space that make it to clinical practice. But like we know there's a lot of things that are gonNA take a lot longer to get to the actual mainstream practice of medicine. But I really loved the similarity between biohacking and psychedelic medicine right now is just the willingness to say we're going to have some courage and boldness and approaching things that aren't maybe stigmatize and sang let's apply science and reason to these areas and say, maybe we can do things fairly safely and resume experiments and I, think experimentation is something that's. Really, really profoundly a huge part of the biohacking movement that basically the Nichols concept really emerged from biohacking. Okay. So why are why are we only relying on randomized controlled clinical trials and how come you can't just experiment like what happened to the scientific method? Well. You probably remember the quantified self movement. I spoke there in twenty eleven at quantified self and I said guys gathering data is sort of like collecting stamps. It might make you happy but it doesn't really do anything. The reason I wanted the word hacking in there is that hackers do is they say I'm going to take control of a system even if I don't understand it all the way but I'm going to have enough data and he was how do I take data plus experiment equals result and for me it was of survival issue. I had the diseases of aging in my twenty. S I had high risk of stroke heart attack on lab tests I had cognitive dysfunction. At arthritis since I was fourteen prediabetes and I was doing what they told me exercising excessively and eating a low fat diet and all that kind of stuff and it was this feeling of exhaustion in anger when I looked at my fin friends eating double western Bacon cheeseburgers and I'm having the chicken salad with no dressing and no chicken and I'm still fat and I exercise more than all my friends and saying you know what? Maybe it's not that I'm eating too many lettuce leaves maybe it's that this doesn't work and what? was left was I could give up or I could experiment and I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars experimenting. It was unjust I shouldn't have had to do that. There should have been someone there a medical professional someone who would have said you know what? Let's just gather some data and let's just see what's working and the only people I could find twenty years ago who are doing that were the people who were seventy and eighty who were getting younger because they'd figured it out and that's why a lot of the biohacking. Techniques actually came from the anti-ageing world, and then pretty soon like wait I still wanna be happy I want to perform and I don't want to carry a large cognitive and emotional burden all the time that's invisible but slowing me down and that almost by definition is going to open the door to at least trans personal experiences and probably some that involve these altered states whether or not they're induced by plant compounds or others. It's funny someone who's listening now was present the first time I may or may not have tried LSD. and. The, the reason I say may or may not have is because when you make public statements about what you've done, it affects you legally. So someone with identical biology to me in a place where it probably was legal I think this is a great opportunity to segue Dave into how do you consider do you consider psychedelics a bio hack or psychedelic drugs specifically bio Atkin why I consider them a bio hack one, hundred percent and I've included that I owe journey in even the creation story of biohacking I went to a Rou and I had that experience and about four or five years later I said I've gotta learn meditation from the Masters and I. went to bed and I had Yak butter tea on the side of Mount Carmel with is holiest mountain in the world middle of nowhere it was this weird mental clarity that came from act butter tea that was the impetus for creating the field of biohacking for creating bulletproof coffee and I had my travel journals for back then and I was trying to come up with the words for what I was trying to do whereas getting. I was looking at what would work and actually wrote down this word cyber shamanism but like people can't hack that like that's not going to be acceptable and what hackers do. I worked in computer security that was a big part of my career like building cloud computing and things like that. So what hackers do when they're the good ones they figure out how to solve a problem? No matter what and they never let something stop them and they control systems. So the systems don't control them. We used Lennox right now as the operating system for much of the Internet. A lot of our conversation right now is based on that kind of technology. It was created by a guy who was a hacker who said I don't like it that Microsoft hides what their software does from me how about I write software that everyone can see and I believe that comes to plant. Medicines specifically, if you don't acknowledge that plant medicine and touch and electromagnetism and electrical currents and flashing lights that these are able to change our consciousness. If you don't acknowledge that and learn how to use them, someone else will learn how to use them against you and then you're blind and that's why I put hacking in the word and so I think biohacking works and that's why I think at the psychedelic medicine is a bio hack because when you're at the point in your control of your own biology that you're saying, I, don't like it that my emotional system responds this way the world around me and I feel disconnected, what can I do? Well, perhaps, you should do some trauma healing work. Because the evidence backs that and this is a very profound effective way to do it. It's not the only way. It's just a very good way, and so a bio hacker who's a well read understands they're different domains of biohacking. And this is an important demand. I would also tell someone look maybe you should put down the potato chips and the alcohol for a little while I maybe you should get your biology working to see what your brain actually does when it's not all wrapped up with stuff and then start doing your plant medicine because personal development is easier when you might have to work well to the point that at burning man, there's two things that gift the Playa, and one of them I have an art car that makes bulletproof coffee because funny enough it has stuff in it. That makes towns it's unbranded burning man of course. But when people have enough electrons available for their neurons to fire fully when they're on substances, they generally have a much cleaner happier nicer experience and they don't feel wrecked the next day and the other one is okon stimulant supplement that I make and when people are halfway through inexperienced and they're like, I'm out of energy the plant medicine has more for me. They can suck on a little candy lozenge thing and suddenly their brain can make energy better and then they can finish their experience. So is it biology and biochemistry? Or is it the plant medicine or is it a combination of the state of the body and what the medicine brings and I feel like you need to line them both up you the Sharman in. Peru said, eat this donate that beforehand or it doesn't work very well and. It. Feels like it's all in alignment. Yeah. That's very well said, and of course, optimizing as Claude. Bernard. Famously described this mill you interior this set and setting of the body and the mind cryer to these experiences is really critical to the outcome of experience. We've a lot of sayings in our society that reflect that like what you put in is once you get out, right. So one of the questions I really wanted to ask you is you describe biohacking an interesting way really talking about restoring agency to us right restoring our sense of control over ourselves, which when we actually get down to the psychiatric origins of anxiety, anxiety actually comes from spending much. Of. Our. Precious attention on trying to control things in our lives that we actually don't have control over rather than spending time in our lives that we have. We only have so much attention every day focusing on things that we do have control over like our breath and the practice of gratitude and what we put into our bodies and things of that nature, and so I would love to hear from you in your words with a specific respect to the way that you described biohacking as restoration of control. How do you see psychedelic experiences playing into that and how can people use these plant medicines of be psychoactive compounds to effectively help to restore control? From your experience, I love this question and the answer is a little bit longer than I'd like. But bear with me for a minute year. I wrote a book called Headstrong which took several years in. It's about the biology of might cadre in the brain and how you can turn those guys on set up the environment right so that those ancient bacteria work well and how it changes your cognitive state in a major way and after I finished the book I applied that was some of the things that I knew about artificial intelligence and distributed systems from work on the Internet and there is an algorithm for life that emerged from this work and I've never seen this written about it. Kind of is an explanation for Maslow's hierarchy of needs but I'm going to explain that algorithm to you and we're gonNA take it back specifically to wear psychedelics Hackett. So I was looking for somebody that would explain every physical biological phenomena and the spiritual emotional trauma things kind of the the algorithm of life. So there's only four things that everything alive does care. If you're a Biofilm I, don't care if you're a CACTUS, a Seabra or a human, it always works. The first thing you do to make a species thrive is Iran away from kill or hide from scary things and you do that because predators will eat you. and. The mechanisms for this for humans are we fight flight or freeze and if you're a plants, you cover yourself in a hard shell or spines or poisons as you can't run you have roots. Right. So there's all these immediate defense is what we do first and foremost, and that gets about a ten x waiting in your decision roadmap and snuffs fear we're dealing with the second thing we do, which gives about a five x waiting is you eat everything because famine kills most species quite often so nutrient availability from a bacteria, a mold, all the way up to the highest forms of life is seek food always. And if you've done those two things, right what else do you have to do to make a species stay alive? Well, it's also an F. Word so we had. Fear. We have food and therefore that you're thinking of is not yet. It's actually fertility over the other one works too. So, all lifeforms including humans will seek those things in that order with those weightings and the fourth f word is the most important. One that all life also does in its called friend and it does that add about maybe a one x waiting for another that's just a normal waiting it's not overweighted. So what this means is that everything everyone's ever done that they're ashamed of came from one of the first three outgrowth of life, which is I was afraid I was hungry or I wanted to get some everything I've ever been embarrassed by has been from one of those situations. Now. That means if we can turn down our bad programming around any of those three things, it's going to free up a huge amount of work. And How do I reprogram those re things? Well, the lowest hanging fruit is actually food and that's what I did with bulletproof. The stuff that I make turns off hunger, and now we know the mechanisms of action I could feel it works when I started the company. Now we know the research people spend between fifteen and thirty percent of their active thoughts and I found a study on this. I can't site where it's. From from memory right now but fifteen to thirty percent of the active thoughts are about what's for lunch or dinner or their next meal. So if you can turn off that voice in your head, all the electrons that went to that, get to go to something else, and if you can gain control of your sexual urges, then you can redirect those electrons to something else and Napoleon, Hill and many others have written. About that but the one that's hardest to turn off the one that's most heavily weighted is fear and because that one has the ability to jump in and short circuit, your behavior, your decision making it can actually blind you to opportunity into things that are actually happening because your body is so wired before you can think to keep you alive. That's where psychedelic medicine comes in. It's how do we turn down inappropriate? Fear that doesn't serve US I want the systems that pull me away from being burned that will make me jump when tigers springs out, but I don't want those systems to be turned on in a boardroom when someone says Dave you screwed up as CEO or whatever else is happening and I don't want them turned on when I'm in a public situation and some part of me that I didn't even decide on. About what people will think instead of me being a high integrity authentic person. So what psychedelics do they are the thing that turns off the biggest and artist, Edward? It's also the scariest one because that's with fear is fears what drives the scariness and so when people sit there and Sarah, what are the things I'm doing that I don't like well, there's a I'm weak because I don't make enough energy. We can hack that I'm hungry all the time and I just keep eating the whole pan of brownies can hack that but I want to give a talk in the US the. Thing that people are most afraid of is actually public speaking of so okay. I'm picking not one on purpose so I WANNA do that. But when I decide, I want to do it I. Get Colds I. Start shaking my voice turns off. It's just your body practicing fight flight freeze but you don't like that you wanted control of your body, your body, your brain, your mind your heart something in you is betraying you because you decided to do this and you were inhibited by an automated system. Let's hack the automated system maybe a dose of Ketamine would let you do that maybe. Neuro feedback related to that maybe deep breathing exercise making to that. But you have to know that it's fear and that it's not you it's not a weakness. It's just an automated system that is misbehaving in a futile attempts to keep you alive. Even though you know it's not a destination you're automated distributed decision making protection systems. Don't know that how do you get a signal into them? Well, it turns out if you put the body in a reset mode, you can do that psychedelics and all of a sudden you see the truthfulness, but it doesn't matter you heal the truthfulness and. The system that is there to keep you alive goes oh I didn't realize my pattern matching algorithm was wrong. Let me reset that and that's why psychedelics her bio hack toes long answer but it makes sense that was brilliant. Oh my God first of all, actually the three of US onstage all have obsessed with Andrea once you've figured out that like they're basically the seat of all decision making the bodies. Yes. Not your brain not distributed decision making Algorithm Stephen Wolfram did the math is true but very few people are talking about it. Yeah. Actually if you want to get really deep. You know. We've talked about your Schroeder's cat and all those sorts of things shared ad nauseam. So there is an observer effect. What kind of ego makes you think that you are the Observer I now. They observed things way before you do. So the smallest unit of observer out there is these. Organs Your Mitochondria. See the environment they acknowledge it. If there is something that's collapsing away form probability into reality it is might okay Andrea and they've form a distributed system with quadrille unions of nodes, sensing things of times a second, and eventually all of that rolls up into your brain, and then you have seven layers of your prefrontal cortex that keeps throwing things out. So you can't see them just filters and what comes to you is a tiny tiny tiny bit of what's going on in the world around you but they got to do the filtering and if they're filters set up wrong no wonder you act like a juice bag like you can't help it. and. Maybe you're not even functioning with that frontal. Oh baby you're. So in fear that you're functioning with your Magdala or your Olympic system because you're an emotional state and you can't really fully access the highest function of your mind because a lot of people suffer from unresolved trauma from their lives that just sitting underneath all of their reality actually draining alive their energy and causing them to. Have to do a lot more processing than they really should be doing to function, and so that's one of the biggest things I think psychedelics are bringing. The world is just being able to clear out some of that fear based conditioning so that you can actually remember that you're going to be okay that everything's GonNa be okay and that you know life isn't as awful as it may seem. So I'm sober recording this because I'm going to have to re listen to your explanation of Meadow Kondracke like a few times because I really think that you are one of the few people who truly is able to articulate what is such cutting edge science and I think we're only beginning to really understand the interactions of psychedelics might Andrea right now there's so much focus on grain regions and glutamate transport and surging systems and less about like what's the fundamental experience change shift phase shift that's happening when you go from living with PTSD are living with trauma from your childhood till like feeling that You're free from it in know just throwing this in there as well because you some sub. So nicely, the whole idea of the filter itself right this these filtration systems that our whole sensory experience whether we're aware of it or not gets filtered through along the way before it gets to what we call consciousness or awareness right and that it's actually possible and I think one of the things that just going back to psychedelic experiences and why they're however you access them naturally through brass or on your own or through singing or chanting or technology, or through psychedelic drugs or medicines that they offer. An opportunity to sort of blur the filter bright. There's an opportunity to now become aware of what was buried beneath awareness prior within what we what Freud called the sub-conscious space and what young called the subconscious space, which then all of a sudden when the barrier becomes blurred that billions of data points of material that we just kind of buried under there because it wasn't immediately relevant to our survival in the moment of our day to day all of the sudden becomes accessible to us, and we can then use that information to pull forth into our day to day lives into our regular conscious. Waking Awareness Lives and start to act on it which then leads to this integration process that Tim Ferriss described really well as the hardening of the clay after you heat the clay with the psychedelic experience, you then had the opportunity afterwards to allow that late arden in no shape and the mold that you actually believe and not be consistent with yourself. Mrs. Such an interesting understanding and on top of that the fact that we know going back to my Andrea and I think this is where our psychedelics mattock or go to interplay is it we know that might have contra fundamentally run calcium signaling They do and a lot of psychedelic medicines impact calcium, channel signalling. We know that chronic stress and stress in general directly impairs calcium channel signaling. So there's all of these different connections there that I think are just so fascinating that neuro science is really starting to actually demonstrate how these things work. It's very well put their that hardening the clay and I really appreciate Tim's work and I've had a chance to interview and sit down with them a couple of times and the last time I interviewed him he talked about microdosing things like Ivo, gain things I've really never thought about fighters dosing. And it sounds like there's a group of people like a lot of very close friends. Lily have gotten into a microdosing side of things where you just want a little bit of your consciousness in a higher awareness he could say, and certainly as a form of Nutro pick this works for some compounds versus others as have another group of friends where it's been a little bit more like, Oh, I've done two hundred and fifty I wa- sessions and I don't really have the heart to say have you ever thought that it's not working? Because it's possible to rely on medicines for escapism and not to soften the clan to rehired on it. But to sort of just soften the clay and I'm a little worried about that for some people where look, you can use these things to open the door and to gain awareness but you still have to do the work and I it lies on the shoulders of a very experienced shaman, a doctor or therapist WHO's working with you with compounds or with Dr or something else to sit down and say. All right what did you see? Did you experience? What are you going to take away from that and what are the tools to harm the clay and in that side of Psychedelic Madison is important because you can go all the way down to calcium signaling and what I think hardening the clay is is actually re-training might akon drill sense and awareness networks to actually sense the things you want them to sense instead of randomly looking around forever they thought was dangerous because they learned it when you were too. And that's. Trauma. At its core yeah, and then that's reflected in the neural networks as well. Right all the as above. So below which I loved, say I think that was fabulous from like thousands of years ago this idea this what's happening on the Mina conjure a level is reflected on the neural activity level and the way that our neural networks communicate around stressful stimuli. which we perceive to be threatening but might actually not be threatening and might not warrant that sympathetic fight or flight freeze response. For example, public speaking is a way to understand that the system's function very similarly in their mechanism whether your looking at the neural networks in my Caelian underneath the ground or you're looking at the neural networks in the brain they. Are As above. So below it's everything is recapitulated on all the different levels than looking at as you were saying, the importance of that integration period that time to allow the clay too hard and it actually takes a new shape or a new form could not be more critical it Dr Molina we always emphasize this very, very much with our clients because. A lot of people just don't understand that you know we're taught in our society you take a pill and you just take this pill every day, and that does the work for you. Right and we know that that could not be further from the truth that the whole point of the work is that the medicine is a teacher that works as a tool. With us, the clinicians or the Shamans or whoever it is that's facilitating to teach our clients, how to self heal not to make you dependent on a substance or dependent on us for treatment. But literally to teach you whenever we can to help you learn or remember how to heal yourself, which is I think really when we get down to the core. Of what delineates a line of addictive escape as implant medicine use versus actual therapeutic healing plant medicine use where there actually isn't intention to use a medicine and then ideally not to have to use it again. Yeah. I WanNa like expound on that a little bit part of the reason why we should see psychedelics as a tool is because it's the whole purpose. Of It is obviously to help you heal. But also to help you change and by change you know I mean literally how do you change your behavior? How do you change the think? How do you change the interact with people and how do you change the way you respond to your environment in the world? So it's so interesting one of the things. That I've been really digging into and like I was kind of shy about admitting it and that was that a lot of the things I particularly interested in like semi esoteric but I think actually have scientific underpinnings and were just beginning to figure out what they mean and what they are and and bear with because I think the connection is the Mitochondria so. psychedelics Meditation Dream Work. hypnosis. All of these are. subconsciously reprogramming tools, neuro feedback or two years zen or one of let's call kind of feel like what's really happening on all of these levels is there is a process that your brain and your body is doing an order to help you adapt to the world around you and literally your body's just trying to keep you alive trying to keep you alive and well, and like you said, it's all about survival and reproduction and survival I defend yourself, feed yourself than go Fox something. So, basically, I kind of figured out that like pretty much all the whole health span for Aug. of the body is situated in the matter country are because they are the ones that are responsible for assimilating the substrates from your food, turning them into fuel and creating this energetic charge of your cells that enables you to do work. But the interesting thing about maddock Andrea is that they're also responsible for signal transaction of stress hormones and stress hormone production, right and sex hormones. Okay. Right. So like all this is happening in the modern Andrea of our adrenals and are over and our testes, and so we really have to start thinking about the body as dislike massive machine of machines literally, just all these cells that are trying to do their best to communicate with each other in order to keep you alive and so a lot of what we do with trauma is buried it because we're like this is something that I don't WanNa deal. What's so scary that if I sat around all day and I thought about my trauma, I would probably not be able to function right? Though what we're doing with psychedelics, trauma healing is saying what if we were to give you a medicine that would enable you to look at that experience in that trauma from place that isn't so scary that doesn't cause you go into fight flurry raise but actually maybe you feel kind of good in the experience and you start to realize that that experience it was awful but you can move through it and you can move past it and I don't totally understand how. To explain this scientifically got because there's so many different theories on how cells work. There literally are so many papers that I'm reading through right now there's so India for models, but I do feel like there's something to be said about these primitive functions of our body and how psychedelic somehow allow us to reprogram our subconscious so that we're seeing things differently if you look at the goal of all of the ancient meditation traditions and things like that. Well, it's it's basically. Immortality and enlightenment and those kind of come together. So I've looked a lot at the esoteric side of it. Okay. What is enlightenment and ended up given what I believe about the distributed nature of consciousness in all of the cells and sub sailor things in the body is that when you are at that stage, you have the ability to be aware of any. Network or any component in your body by choice and right now we generally don't, and it's funny because for five years I taught engineers in Silicon Valley had move from centralized computing to decentralize Internet in plus one architecture stuff I mean I would dream about this I ran strategy for the first data center company and really lived this at a level system Merson. And what you soon find is that it's impossible to make a life size map of the country. Because it has so much detail that you can use it. So the way we start monitoring and managing systems of millions of computers is the same way we monitor and manage. Systems inside the body without our conscious awareness. So instead of saying, Hey, let's pay attention to everything which doesn't make sense. You set up a whole bunch of distributed filters that says only if something doesn't match what I expect, should you bring it to my attention? So you don't have to look at all these routers and servers only if something deviates from the norm. and. So what we are actually fed from our motto Contra is they're all making their little local predictions about the future of microseconds ahead of time, and if something doesn't match you notice so you don't notice how much your car keys way when you pick them up but if they weighed to grams too much like they're really heavy because that network of muscle sensors and Nerves and all that stuff. It just did something automatically. So when we have full control over matter, contra networks are monitoring and management system that we control as conscious beings is so dialed in that we can say I'm going to be fully aware of whatever I choose to be fully aware of and right now because of fear because of hunger because of feelings of loneliness. We oftentimes don't have the ability to do that, and that's why psychedelics are so important I think as reprogramming that network so that it becomes something you can dial into, you can control and you can get a report whereas today you can order report on what's going on in the world around you and that's why plan medicines are important. So while fad your that thank you so much they've that. was really really great and I want to make sure that were respectful of your time, and if you're open to it that we leave some couple minutes for questions that sound good to you, sir, I can go for about another ten minutes Max. Let's do question. Then there my name's Mona Hamdi, Emma teaching fellow and be searched candidate and applied ethics at Harvard University Dave and your total Stud Mona. Has Gone Dave Hi guys molly for joining us up here. So now, thank you of course, of course I'm a big fan of. Watch with interest everything that all of your doing and Dave. Of course What's exciting you day what the forefront at the forefront of on Jedi compression of Morbidity and human thriving. I. Believe that if we can turn down our our degree of wasted electrons in the body that the body will automatically allocate them towards something and it'll go towards at generation it'll go towards proper protein folding it'll go towards management but that if we instead take those precious Ron's that come from our contra and instead allocate them towards useless defenses, things that aren't actually dangerous towards these other big bursts, three F words that it removes our ability to maintain the hardware properly, and that one of the big anti-aging things you get from plant medicines or from any meditation practice is. In wasted effort and wasted effort will go back into systems maintenance. It will go back into personal development. So for me, it's like stopped doing the things that make you weak and one of the biggest things that makes you weak is worrying. So you WanNa live a long time lauren how to worry less and that doesn't mean learn how to accept your worried notice your worry, and then let it go because you still wasted electrons. It's how do you turn off the system that made the worry in the first place so you didn't have to waste energy on it, but it's this fundamental sub. Laziness that I think is driving a lot of overdoing and that's got nearly excited because we can now look at the neuroscience side of it look at the outcome of it and we can look at the inputs and we don't have to know the mushy middle, the David Emol you're talking about here, and that's why that hacker mindset is useful is because if it really is a black box inside the body, it's okay we looked at the outcome and the output and did we control the system enough to reduce the? Wasted effort if we did, it was an achievement and then we can go through and cracking open the black box, which is a multi generational effort in the meantime list the results now you and I carried exact same believe around health span and like this is literally what I teach my students at Stanford it's all about how do you increased energy output and what is energy electrons flow, and like arguably consciousness is this idea of electron flow right? Like if cells no longer have electrons low than they are no longer functioning. Right that is that is true. There's also information field theory which probably drives a lot of consciousness and guess what the antenna is. For information fields, it would be either might contra possibly DNA since two hundred have their own. DNA and there's a cellular involved as well. I think some of what we're actually doing to get really upset about it is we're dealing with that energetic stuff you talked about molly, but we're also dealing with the information fields that are generated by and read by our meadow Qendra and probably. Yeah. Anyone out there goes looks Monaco Qendra Resonance, and you can actually see how they communicate with each other through these wage on you WanNa have your mind blown molly I interviewed the Guy Behind Hash Graph, the algorithms at Carnegie Mellon Computer Scientists. The way you establish trust in a system for voting in distributed ledgers is likely identical to the way might oke, Andrea do some called quorum sensing like. Lyria. And Bacteria of course. So if half the cells in your hand are feeling danger and the other half feeling pleasure, how do they decide who's right and it turns out? There's an algorithm approach to that, and it's really cool that in are distributed does stuff were figuring out the same way that biological systems work and it's so fascinating and so cool and micro. But I think that we're GONNA learn a lot from the information field site offense. Yeah without a doubt I think one going back to what you're talking about earlier. One of the key ways these cells exchange this kind of information is through calcium channels signaling, which has. Thing on the minute tiny little bits of calcium here and their level, which is very, very important which is why it's critical that we tackle are stress and the way we cope with stress in a very direct way because stress dis regulates calcium channels signaling, which leads to chronic stress and the effects of chronic stress and illness on the body and just going back to monae. Think there's another thing that's really interesting on the forefront of this is technologically facilitated altered states that promote the opportunities for change the opportunities for thriving and transformation without. Requiring you to dose with the medicine. So one of them is Apollo, which developed at the University of Pittsburgh, which is currently available Dave works with another technology I believe and use both of the Apollo and happy, which is another interesting technology that induces some degree of altered states of consciousness with electrical fields. There are a few others out there now that also do this, but I think hang attention to these technologies that are facilitating states of consciousness with out medicine or without the ingestion of drug is a really fascinating direction at the fields going. In fact, if you look your Apollo system is really cool and In touch, those are the primordial sensors probably after smell that humans have. So they're very visceral and you can tap anything's there and because I'm kind of a neuroscience nerd because of the forty years, Zen Institute in all of that the idea that we can run small pulse electro-magnetic fields over the brain and have profound and measurable on an eeg changes. Those are compatible technologies. So like last night at bedtime, I used oath at the same time because they're not going to conflict and you can also use flashing lights and drumming or to Ben Bowls these are all things that are compatible. And if you're saying look I'm going to turn all these on to sleep. I got two and a half hours of Rim in two hours of deep sleep last night in seven hours I'm feeling pretty good about it but it was technologically enhanced because of Apollo because of happy and that's kind of cool and I also use some mushroom extracts and some other supplements and all I feel like I got a really good deal out of that for sure and thank you for for the experience really bringing the technology and plant in back together. All right. So bring. So Hey, Bob. David Emily. Thanks. Yes. Dave had Christian of g think there's a trade off between. Longevity and human performance at times. For example, if you are put on a lot of Muscle Weight Training Hall you causing inflammation right. Over training, but it may be good for performance sometimes same nutrition, right? Even clubs for marathons and things and you may need that for performance but we know along jetty time restricted feeding fussing really helps and with that with inflammation being linked to so many chronic diseases. One of the best ways apart from kind of somebody obvious to owed that you do to reduce inflammation. and. that. is a really cool question about longevity versus performance, and the question is what is performance look like and I wanted bodybuilders and endurance athletes marathoners to be a part of the biohacking worlds even though their goals are pretty different and I was Kinda grateful that the New York Times awhile ago they wrote about me and they said that I was quote almost muscular and I'm like, yes. That's the look that is correlated with longevity the most. and. So if for you performance means picking up the heaviest thing in the world or in running twenty six miles, and at least of time, both of those are going to take some time away from the ultimate longevity but it may be worth it because this what you love and it's eliminating the fear of death that is the biggest reduction in stress that you could ever have and to say, look everyone's going to die some of my friends get pissed when I say that, but you're going to die because. The universe will come to an end. Even if you think you're immortal, there will be an end accepting it not running from it is a powerful way to do it. So if you want to manage inflammation than you look at hormetic stress and what we can do is we can measure your heart rate variability which funny enough will be incredibly impacted by the strengthen health of your mind. Qendra, how good are they right now at turning Erin food into electrons so if your heart rate variability is moderate to high then You can push hard on your training and if it's wrecked, you're actually need to recover more. So my experiences that almost all athletic focus people have to look at recovery more to the point that I started upgrade labs, which is a recovery facility to let people whether they're athletes are not recover faster than mother. Nature wants instead of helping people put muscle on faster Mother Nature wants, which is also possible, but it comes at a price. So it's balancing physical stress emotional stress and what I'm gonNA call spiritual stress. So that, you don't exceed your stress capacity for your hardware and software at any one time, and if you do that, it will be reflected in inflammation. It'll be reflected in hurry very ability in it'll be reflected in happiness at which is the ultimate way to make people nice to each other. They're very well said, thanks. Thank you. Yeah. I would have said the same thing they have the balance is critical I think in our society we Austin too often talk about peak performance only right. But what about peak recovery? Ultimately if we want to continue peak performing at the time and ideally increasing the consistency and that ultimate peak of what peak performance could be then we have to prioritize peak recovery just as much, and that is now really interesting to think about because you can measure it as he said by looking at things are bill. So if you look at Harvard variability and you track it over time and trended than, you can get a really good sense of, Hey, is my body actually recovered enough despite whether I'm tune-in enough to sense it or not is my body actually recovered enough to take on this big physical stress workout stress. Spiritual emotional. Whatever it is. Today you know and it helps us to just reacquaint ourselves with where we're actually at right now and what we're actually ready for those a really great way of describing that. Thank you. I. Know You have to run so I just wanted to thank you again for joining us. We really really appreciate your time and we are so grateful and will leave it to you. If there's any last words, you WANNA share with the audience before you go or anything you want to check out that you are putting out there. Well, thanks Dave and thanks molly for just a fascinating conversation I really like how you're doing this on this APP. and. All of that because I think just facilitates really cool conversation I would love to get recording this up on bulletproof radio I. Think the audience would love that and if you're enjoying what I'm talking about here, I would say definitely look at forty years of Zen. It's a five day tents neuro feedback program I designed for senior executives and some of the highest performing people on the planet and for myself. And that's it's worth your attention. If you're really pushing it and and you're saying, how do I get to that next little level This is the highest and best that I know we don't use medicines there but we replicate the states as much as I can and I would ask you if you're looking at doing psychedelics whatever form therein, find a highly qualified professional I am scared of the people say you know I did something twice I ordered him on the dark web now I'm a shaman. I believe there is spiritual danger from that perspective. I cannot tell you why or what the spiritual dangerous but every one of the masters. The, seventy and eighty year olds who've done it way more than me says the same thing and I've learned to trust their judgment. So water quality, do it do it right? That'd be my biggest thing for you and of course, you know check out my books and all that kind of stuff you wanna live a long time or have your brain work. In New York Times bestsellers but big thing is protect yourself energetically. When you do your plant medicines, do them with professionals make sure you get cleaned stuff and just don't mess around. This is your consciousness, and if you change that, you won't know you changed it and it's very hard to get. Thank you so much. so much Dave. I'M GONNA go jumping notion I love and have a wonderful wonderful everyone emigrant me and everybody stays sat they. He's so much for joining us again on the Psychedelic News Hour I'll let Dr Mollie and Dave sign off and we really having all of you here again with us today and we look forward to another psychedelic news our next week featuring. One only Jackie staing who actually was one of the first people at bulletproof with Mr Dave asprey, and ultimately started a wonderful organization called meet Delic that is working to sponsor and help people share knowledge about psychedelic medicines, how to use them safely and also spearheading the recreational is ation movement of psychedelic medicine and really helping to share knowledge about safe use. So please tune in next week and join us and we look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you again and have a wonderful and restful weekend. Bulletproof radio was created in this hosted by Dave asprey the executive producer. Darcy himes PODCAST Assistant Bev. Hamson. His podcast is for information purposes only statements and views expressed on this podcast or not medical advice this podcast including Dave asprey and the producers disclaimers possibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein of guests are their own in this podcast is not endorser accept responsibility for statements made by guest podcast is not make any representations or warranties about guess qualifications credibility individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products is referred to herein if you think you have a medical problem, consult a licensed physician. His podcast is owned by bulletproof media.
How Black And White Americans' Views On Race Differ
"This message comes from npr sponsor. Weisan a one. To one tutoring alternative to online classes offering live online personalized lessons in more than three hundred subjects. Head to w wnyc a. n. t. dot com. Because it wise aunt will take learning. Personally hey npr. This is hannah from rainy. Birmingham england where. I just got back from the library with my son henry. Who is now the proud owner of his very own library card. This show was recorded at one. Thirty five pm on monday may seventeenth. Things may have changed by the time. You hear it all right. Here's the show. Congratulations henry. that's great. The libraries are still a great resource. Exactly even if you can't go in them yet it is the f. Vr politics podcast. I'm danielle kurtz avenue. Cover demographics and culture am i sharon. Scott of the white house and i'm dominican montenero senior political editor and correspondent. And today we are going to talk about race. White and black. Americans have very different views of race in america. They've also had very different experiences when it comes to dealing with discrimination and trusting police. Those are not exactly shocking findings but there are some interesting nuances out of our new. Npr pbs newshour. Marist poll dimicco. You have been immersed in this poll. You've been looking under the hood so to speak so let's just jump in. Let's start with people's views on policing. What did this poll find what stood out to you. Well you know. We asked how much confidence people had in police officers in their communities to gain the trust of residents. And you saw you know. Huge divide between whites and blacks. And i have to say also latinos to latinos and whites. Very much seem to trust that the police can do. Three quarters of both latinos whites say that the police can gain. They have conferences. Police can gain the trust of residence. Fewer than half of african americans said so yes like you said there was a pretty big racial gap on how people view the police. I'm curious what other sorts of gaps did we see. There's always a partisan gap on pretty much everything this country these days where they're pretty big partisan gaps to i mean. Yeah i mean is like whatever you put on that t shirt you know the of which party. That's the biggest dividing line if you're a trump supporter. You're biding supporter. There really is almost no easier way to tell where people are going to go. And we've tested this. You know time after time in almost everything we talk about you know when it came to however you know your experiences. I thought it was a really wide gap. If you just even just taking the politics out of this That's where you saw. African americans sixty one percent said that they in their own life personally. Experienced discrimination have been treated unfairly because of their race or ethnicity. Just fifteen percent of whites said the same and thirty nine percent of latinos. So that's where you start with and the views of Everything else sort of fall with that. You know when you think about whether or not Whites think the police treat people of color more harshly. They don't think so largely they for the most part think that police treat people of color the same but when you look at how african americans feel about it. Sixty plus percent think that police do treat them more harshly. I actually i want to turn to you because none of this is happening in a vacuum right. I mean first of all we had the derek chauvin verdict this year but also president biden has talked a lot about racism about criminal justice and policing reform. He says he really wants to address these things. So give us a quick rundown of how that effort is going woah. I can be fairly quick with it because there hasn't been a lot on policing what they have left it to is. They do support of. George floyd justice and policing act of that passed the house They they wanted to Get picked up in the senate It would address issues like banning chill colds. A certain. No knock warrants. It would deal with the issue of qualified immunity. Which is a basically able to sue police officers for your conduct giving more leeway for that So there is work being done on this issue. But that's as far as it has gone right now for the administration. They have as a part of the justice department. They have started opening up doing more investigations into police departments. That was something that had stopped under the trump administration. So they are doing that. A civil rights investigations a but there has not been a lot coming from the white house on policing right and as you also alluded to there. It's it's not just about the white house. It's about congressional action which kind of an oxymoron certain times a well let's turn to this the idea of one other thing that was really fascinating in this poll. I thought it's the topic of how much people talk about race. And how comfortable they feel talking about it. I was a little surprised. Medico that so i'm an older welding. Majority of people said yeah. I feel great talking about race but there were some really interesting nuance behind that. Well with friends and family right. I mean is it was almost nine and ten people said that they are at least somewhat comfortable talking about race with their friends and family. Now you know. I think we have to put a little bit of an asterisk around that kind of thing because you know that sounds like the kind of answer people wanna hear right. Yeah right being honest with themselves right. And that's a thing that we talk about in polling all the time that like are some of these questions sometimes the answers people give You know it's because they think that that's what society acceptable. It's what survey researchers call social desirability. So that's one piece of it potentially and as you pull the layer back a little bit on that which is why we asked multiple questions on it. You see that things start to unravel a bit. You have two thirds of americans who say they actually have these conversations not just that they're comfortable having them and then when you go even further into that the people who are most likely to have those conversations are group's that all lean democratic so you wind up where you have. People have republicans in particular not wanting to talk about race or not doing it very much and then are also the same group of people who are for the most part saying that race relations have gotten worse over the past year and really all. That's changed between last year and this year for the most part we're seeing groups that have flipped because trump wasn't office announced biden. And there is a question of when you think of race relations and what good relations are right like. They're the part of the issue can be good race. Relations may be for some people feeling like. I don't wanna talk about things that make me feel uncomfortable or i don't want to talk about things that challenged me so good race. Relations is not dealing with that. Then that then. I feel like raise race. Relations is good for me but for a lot of people of color. Black people in particular. You can't live life without talking about race. So it's ingrained in your very the fabric of your conversations that you want to talk about it but you have to talk about where what neighborhoods you can go to whereas it safe. Who's watching you Are you going to be able to get this job. What your hair should look like. All of these things are a part of your life. How much your your house go on sale for. If they know that you're black you'll get praise for one hundred thousand dollars less so these are all things that black people don't have a choice but to talk about right is life and a lot of conservatives on the flip side of that. I've talked to over the past several years. Feel like rats talk too much about race that they are kind of obsessed with the idea of identity. Politics was a kind of a catch word. A buzzword that we used to hear a lot about in politics And you know when you start to look at a case. Like the george floyd case which is on videotape right and you have a unanimous jury decision and now we have three quarters of american saying you know that they think that it was the right decision you know. We did see within this poll that there was considerable Support two thirds of americans were in support of reforming police use of force policies and almost nine ten universally people think. It's a good idea for police to wear body cameras and people may have different reasons for that but there is near universal support for that. All right we're gonna take a quick break here and we're going to talk a lot more about our poll when we get back about people's views on corona virus. Stay with us this message comes from. Npr sponsor hint fruit infused water with no calories or sweeteners hints. Water comes in over twenty. Five flavors the watermelon. Water actually tastes like watermelon. The blackberry water tastes like blackberries. Hint is water with a touch of true fruit flavor. You can get hint water at stores or you can have it delivered directly to your door. When you buy two cases you'll get a third case. Free and free shipping visit drink hint dot com and use promo code. Npr at checkout. I'm yohe's shaw. I'm kia mac and cheese where the hosts of the npr podcast invisible. Lia you can think of invisibility. Ah kind of like a sonic black light. When you switch us on you'll hear surprising and intimate stories stories that help you notice things in your world that maybe you didn't see before. Listen to the invisibility of podcast from npr. And we are back and we are talking about another big topic we pulled on cova nineteen but before we get into the results. I want to start with you. I asia how many people in america are fully vaccinated now. And are we on. Track to hit president biden's july fourth party barbecue target that he talked about in his joint address to congress last month. Well so nearly. Half of adults are fully vaccinated The pace of vaccinations has slowed. But if you want to have a barbecue outside the cdc did say last week. You don't need a mask if you're fully vaccinated and you hang out with people and you're outside so you can go ahead and queue it up you know. I think that's true. Fire starters ready yeah dimicco. We know that there are a lot of americans who are hesitant about getting the vaccine. How has that changed over time. Because we've pulled a few times on haven't we. Yeah in our polling kind of tracks with us talking about there. Seventy three percent of americans in our survey who said that they've either gotten the vaccine or they will get the vaccine. If one comes available to them we have a quarter of people who are holding out and saying that no they don't want to get vaccinated and the biggest. You know most likely people to say they aren't gonna get vaccinated are trump supporters and republican. Men forty three percent of trump's order. Say that they're going to hold out. Knock it the vaccine and forty four percent of republican men in. This has not budged very much and i don't wanna you know go too. Far down the rabbit hole with danielle because mentioning republican men and not wanting to get vaccinated after going through the trump presidency and talking about how masculinity was intertwined with mask wearing and getting vaccinated and all of that but it does look like we've hit a plateau as a country because when you look at the numbers we've had steady increases. President biden has gotten into office. Only four percent of people reported that they had already gotten vaccinated in january twenty two percent in mid march thirty six percent by the end of march fifty seven percent in april and fifty nine percent. Now you can see that pace definitely slowing and there's a lot of work to do to get the people who are most hesitant to get it and those are squarely in republican communities. We should mention one bit of news here before we finish. And that's that Just minutes before we started recording. There was news that biden would send twenty million additional doses of vaccine to other countries. Now this is the thing that he has been criticized in some quarters for being slow or not aggressive enough on aisha maybe quickly tell us what biden has done before this. And how how has evolved at the white house so they have made some vaccines available but they were not part of this. International collaboration kovacs with is about getting a money and getting resources to countries. That are not as rich as the. us so that they can get vaccines the issue was. It wasn't just money that was needed. Like if money's not it was people need the vaccine themselves the. Us has mechanisms that. Put them first in line for manufacturers to get vaccines that are produced and so the us has been very hesitant to make any moves or changes to that or to try to send supply outward or to other countries while there were all these people who were clamoring for vaccines in the country. But there was a you know there was difficulty getting them. In the beginning right there was difficulty with people who wanted to get vaccines being able to find them in. Get them shirt and so it seems like the the the biden administration was about that they do seem to be opening up now. More on demento. The poll seem to show that people are pretty in favor of this kind of move right. Yeah nine and ten people pretty much said that They were okay with it. They think that it's a good idea. Great well some form of unity. So let's send it there. I'm danielle kurtz. Lieven covered demographics and culture ice roscoe. I covered the white house. And i'm dominican. Montenero senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to. Npr politics podcast. A this message comes from npr sponsor. Ford the all electric mustang mach e and a stock car race around a track. The stock car veers off toward a mobile pit crew harnessed to a moving flatbed truck visit for dot com to see a heart racing. Mustang mach e receiving over the air update.
Monday, May 17, 2021
"Are israeli airstrikes intensified against gaza hamas continued rocket attacks. One israeli strike destroyed the offices of the. What explanation did israel gift. I'm rachel martin. With steve inskeep and this up i from. Npr news The cdc defends its new guidance saying vaccinated. People can stop wearing masks in any setting. I've cdc director promised the american people. I would convey that science to you when we know it. How if at all do people know who around them might be unmasked and not vaccinated. Also an npr. Pbs newshour marist. Poll asks americans their views of policing. The answers vary dramatically depending on the race and the party of those asked stay with us. We'll give you the news. You need to start your day for support for npr and the following message. Come from american express make the most of your life with offers on travel. Dining and entertainment learn more at american express dot com slash with amex support also comes from net suite by oracle the bigger. Your company grows the faster you sync with outdated software right now. Net suite is offering a one of a kind special financing program. Go two net sweet dot com slash up first to learn more just over a week ago. The middle east was growing tents but few people could have expected the war that is now underway. Hamas continues firing rockets out of gaza. Israel says its airstrikes on. Gaza will continue for some time. Many of those strikes have hit populated areas of gaza destroying buildings and infrastructure israeli prime minister. Benjamin netanyahu told cbs. That's where the rocket launchers are we've lost would simply move these rockets out of this if they moved their command. Post out of these homes and offices then there wouldn't be any problem. Palestinian officials say many of the one hundred ninety seven dead. Our children eight dead. In israel include a five year old boy numbers like that form the backdrop for a statement by linda. Thomas greenfield the us ambassador to the united nations. We need to do everything. We can to move closer to the day when both israeli and palestinian children wake up every morning without fearing for their lives. Let's go now to npr's daniel estrin. Who is in jerusalem there. Daniel hi steve. How widespread is the destruction in gaza. Well these israeli attacks happened overnight and every night seems to be more intense than the one before. Just this past night. Israel says scores of warplanes again attacked another part of what. Israel calls the underground metro. That is what they call underground tunnels they say hamas has dug under gaza to move its fighters and rockets from one place to another. It says it bombed about nine miles of those tunnels overnight. We don't have any word of casualties from that but these strikes have been keeping palestinians up all night terrified. I just got off the phone with a sixty five year old woman. He fired bourgeois bliss. Listen the da got. She says we didn't sleep at night at all. We felt like i felt like my heart stopped. And she's one of the tens of thousands of palestinians not only facing fear but facing short water supply. She says she feels up buckets to use water to clean when she does get water. She has just a few hours of electricity a day. And that's that was just last night. the biggest deadliest israeli strikes so far in this fighting was sunday. Several multi-storey residential homes collapsed forty two people incl- including very young children killed. Well has israel provided evidence to justify one particular strike over the weekend daniel. I'm talking about the destruction of a large building that housed the associated press gaza bureau. That's right that building completely collapsed in the israeli strike. Israel says hamas military intelligence was using the building as well and that destroying the building had crippled is a hamas command and control capabilities. Israel has not published evidence of that and although israel warned the building an hour before. There were no casualties. People escaped We don't know why israel didn't tell the associated press that they're allegedly was hamas in the building. And i guess the is saying we saw no sign of this and al jazeera which also had offices in the building. You're saying we saw no sign of this and now the building is destroyed. How long does israel plan to continue its campaign. We don't know it seems like it's a matter of days not weeks after the bombing of the associated press and el-jazeera building and several families killed in the last few days. It seems that there is more international pressure to reach a ceasefire the us involved qatar egyptians and the has called for meeting of foreign ministers tomorrow. The expectation is that they're going to say no more. We could see this wrapping up soon. Does either combatant side one to end it right now. It doesn't appear so netanyahu. Prime minister of israel says it would take Israel will take as long as it needs at hamas says its resistance will continue doing. Thanks for the update. You're welcome that's interest. Daniel estrin okay about one hundred twenty. Three million people in the united states are now fully vaccinated. Millions of other people have the first two shots over the weekend. A whole lot of americans started to bear their faces. The cdc issued its recommendation that vaccinated. People don't need to wear masks in most settings. There are some exceptions as we're about to hear the agency is facing criticism over all this here. Cdc director rochelle will linski explaining and defending the decision on nbc. right now. The data the science shows us that it is safe for vaccinated people to take off their masks. I the cdc director promised the american people. I would convey that science to you when we know it. npr's alison. Aubrey joins us now to discuss all this alison good morning. Good morning steve. Kind of a startling change. Over the weekend where i was. I think i saw not not universal faces. People are still wearing masks but a lot more faces. It does feel like such an abrupt change. I mean when. I grabbed my keys myself on. I just grab a mask too and i'm about to leave. Its habit now. But many retailers are dropping their masking requirements following the cdc announcement that includes walmart costco starbucks yesterday. Cdc director will end ski as we just heard was pressed about the new recommendation. But you know what she also cautioned masks. We'll be with us for a while. Even among vaccinated people masking still recommended in certain settings including on public transportation and in schools. Here she is on nbc. Again this was not permission to shed masks for everybody everywhere. This was really science driven individual assessment of your risk. And now we all need to work together and cdc is hard at work now saying what does this mean for schools for travel four camps for businesses. So she's definitely saying that there's more updated guidance to come and given that it's hard to know who is or who is not vaccinated. The new recommendations really just depend on the honor system will ask people to be honest with themselves because people who are not vaccinated are putting themselves at risk. People are gonna have to be thoughtful here. That's what this is essentially saying. And just to underline this again vaccinated. People should still be using masks. Certain crowded settings and unvaccinated. People should be using them more confident that people will follow honor system. You know i think there are definitely critics. The head of the united food and commercial workers international union which represents about one point three million frontline retail and grocery store workers. Say they don't want to be policing the situation and they say the. Cdc should have waited to relax masking until more people are vaccinated. There are similar concerns among nurses the leaders of national nurses united which is the largest union and registered nurses nurses in the. Us say the new policy could threaten the lives of patients nurses and other frontline workers. We keep also getting these kinds of unsettling. Bits of news. I was in a conversation last week about the easing of the pandemic. And somebody said yeah. What about the new york yankees. No doubt this can be unsettling but breakthrough infections are pretty uncommon especially ones that lead to serious illness in the case of the yankees. They'd received the johnson and johnson vaccine. The vaccine was shown in a clinical trial to be about eighty five percent effective against severe illness from covid. I spoke to just angela rasmussen of the university of sketchy on about this overall. That break your infections are really something that we would expect because no vaccine is one hundred percent effective. But if they're not getting sick because of those breakthrough infections and the vast majority of those yankees players were a symptomatic. They're not transmitting to others. It's really much less of a concern. And steve the cdc has been tracking breakthrough infections as well as variants of concern. Okay allison thanks so much. Thank you very much steve. That's pure appears and aubrey. This may come as no surprise. But it's valuable to hear it. Documented americans have very different views when it comes to policing depending in many cases on their race. A new poll from npr pbs. Newshour marist details. Just how differently. American see policing the findings. We approached the one year. Anniversary of george floyd killing in minneapolis former police officer derek. Chauvin was found guilty of floyd's murder. Npr senior political editor and correspondent. Dominica montinaro with this dominica. Good morning. good morning steve. What are some of the findings whether we're big gaps usual by political leaning but on race as well which we looked into. And let's take whether people had personally experienced discrimination or feel. They've been treated unfairly because of their race. Just fifteen percent of whites said this had happened to them but sixty one percent of black americans said it had of of latinos. It was thirty nine percent when it came to police. Whites latinos and republicans had far more confidence than black americans in their ability to gain the trust of residents in their communities and on whether police treat african americans more harshly than whites. Just a quarter of whites thought so but most black americans did interesting that latinos lined up there more with whites than with black americans on that question What did people say about the derek. Chauvin verdict the the former officer convicted of killing. George floyd broad agreement. Here three quarters of respondents agreed with the guilty verdict but we do see a bit of a partisan gap about half of republicans and trump supporters. Think it was either the wrong decision or they aren't sure remember though. This was a unanimous jury. Decision floyd's killing has sparked calls for police reform This survey finds broad support for the need to reform police use of force policies for example Again though sharp. Divide along party lines. Democrats and independents said the policy should be reformed just third of republicans thought so too one policy area though where there was near. Universal support was for wearing police body. Cameras which is understandable given that Videos played such a role in so many cases. They may have different reasons for that but it was almost it was about nine and ten. That agreed. oh that's an interesting question. People may feel it protects the officer in some cases. Is there anything that you would find optimistic. In these findings. There was some hope for optimism. That people seem to have a mo said they believe for future generations that race relations will be better than they are now which is different than people sometimes feel about the economy and whether the american dream is achievable for example. Fewer people than we've seen in the last six years are saying that race relations in the country had gotten worse in the past year. Of course there's a lot of politics wrapped up in that for a lot of people. Who like joe biden. Just that switch. From trump to biden made a big difference for a lot of people in speaking of biden a slim majority approved of how he's handling race relations. That's about where his overall job rating is though. He certainly has lots of challenges on this especially as he tries to press ahead for deal police reform i want to check in on his overall approval rating since we have a few seconds domenico gathered the donald trump for almost all of his presidency was about forty percent approval low fifties disapproval. It's kind of flipped with joe biden. Is that right yeah. We've seen him really win over independence to be pretty steadily above fifty percent. Now he's got a lot of challenges ahead when it comes to some of these issues that are non cova related moment when it comes to covid people two thirds thing. He's doing a pretty good job dominica. Thanks you're welcome. Npr senior political editor and correspondent domenico montanaro and you can find more on this poll and dominicos full story at npr dot. Org and that's up. I put this. Monday may seventeenth. I'm steve inskeep. And i'm rachel martin. Come back tomorrow. We'll be right here and because the news doesn't stop the podcast. Dan's follow us on twitter. You can find us at up first daily round of the most important stories of the day. Now you can find more indepth coverage of the stories. We talked about today and much more on. Npr's morning edition the radio. Show that noel. King rachel and i host. You can find morning edition on your npr station Iowa i'm kiam matisse where the hosts of the npr podcast invidia you can think of invisibility. Ah kind of like a sonic black light. When you switch us on you'll hear surprising and intimate stories stories that help you notice things in your world that maybe you didn't see before listened to the podcast from npr. This message comes from npr sponsor. Ford the all electric mustang mach e and a twelve foot rocket take off the rocket launches into the atmosphere while the all electric pony takes off toward the horizon at full speed visit for dot com for a new perspective on range.
Giving sources the power to tell their own stories
"Hey everyone the alternate team wanted to remind you that we have an email newsletter where you can get all the latest news about our podcast go to our website. It's all journalism dot com and follow the link to subscribe thanks and enjoy the episode basically with empowerment journalism. The whole howard dynamic of traditional journalism is shifted. Were really there as sort of the support for the storyteller and to capture the air autobiographical story when covering a story. Journalists often run the risk of overpowering subjects narrative but the structure of the reporting when they should be stepping back and giving their subject the tools. They need to tell their stories themselves. I mike lucado this is it's all journalism breeding is the deputy director of the global reporting center. The center has recently produced documentary series for pbs. Newshour called turning points which uses the empowerment journalism model. Britney's here to talk to us about that series and explain exactly what is empowerment journalism. Welcome to the podcast brittany. Thanks so britney you said before we turn to the that you had. You've heard our podcast and so you kinda know how we start out things. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in journalism and how you ended up at the global reporting center so i think you're probably the first person asked me how i've gotten into journalism since my first day of journalism school but sometimes when i think back on it i'm not even sure how i ended up here but what i think happened was i graduated from undergrad with an english degree in fine arts degree and i was sure that i was going to be a teacher though. I moved to south korea just to sort of try it out and see what it was like to work as a teacher. I was teaching english as a second language. But in a funny way. I sort of missed being a student. I love reading and writing and losing myself in research and so i started to think really hard about what kind of career would lead me to new discoveries into an opportunity to spend more of my life learning and i think that that's really what led need to journalism and so i moved back to canada and enrolled in a master's degree at the university of british columbia. And they have this incredible program that was formerly known as the international reporting program is now known as the global reporting program and that really drew my attention and it gives you a chance to spend a full year working on enterprise investigative work of international journalism. And my year. We were lucky enough to travel to china to report on the emerging environmental movement. And it was just this amazing opportunity to really dig in and learn and after i graduated from my masters a new that daily news was not going to be my thing. I wanted to be somewhere where that freedom to explore a story to stay with it. And i know that those jobs are also a few and far in between but at the time one of our professors at u c was just starting to build a global reporting center and an adviser at the school had recommended me when our director. Peter klein was looking for someone to help out part time so i started working with him in twenty fourteen. Just right after graduating. And i was working part. Time will working some other jobs and just trying to fill out that full time schedule. Then when we launched in two thousand sixteen we had a lot of momentum. And so yeah. I've been with the goal reporting center basically ever since i graduated from a masters. And it's been a really wonderful opportunity in place to work because peter in the team are always willing to listen to new ideas and new projects in there's this openness to experimentation and i even working now with the golden pudding program as their multimedia producer so in some ways. My story is a bit full circle. Because i have both that career that allows me to discover learn but also one where i'm getting to work with students and help them grow in home their skill. So yeah it's been really great. And i i feel like i'm really lucky to have found myself where i am. We have peter klein on the podcast. A couple of years ago. And i remember having a really great conversation with him and he reached out to us about a month ago and said. Hey you should talk to the people about the turning points program that's being produced with pbs newshour. You know this is something interesting something different and had a chance to check out some of the The videos that you guys have produced for that project and it's really really powerful so before we get into that just could you explain what is the mission of the global reporting center. What are the types of stories that it does. Yeah of course so. We thought a lot about this. And i think i mean are small mandate are sort of one liner is global journalism done differently and then when you expand that in what that means split into three distinct areas so the first being the focus on collaboration so we work with journalists from around the world we work with a variety of media partners with researchers and scholars which we're lucky based on our position at the university to sort of have this wealth of scholarship around us an even now at this turning point project working roy subjects we. We don't generally work with fixers. We use journalists partners. So collaboration is really at the heart of what we do. And i think that that sort of sets us apart a little bit because you know. Journalism has been shifting for a long time towards less competitiveness. More sort of working together in this idea that we tell better stories when we're not silent off in working together in that something that we really take to heart and then the other sort of areas that set us apart. Are that experimentation innovation sort of area where we try to do our journalism in different ways. Were open to new methods and new methods. Don't always work out. Sometimes they fail and for us. That's okay because we just want to be able to experiment and try new things and see what works in take those pieces that are successful in and bring them to a new stage in the last focuses on our education avenue so on global reporting program and bringing on students every year to work with us when we have big projects in production like turning points. We like to give students opportunities to work on projects in meaningful ways and allow them in on the production process so that they really get that experience when they're going out into the world they have these pieces that you know they can point to and say that they worked on okay so now is a fair to assume that the the turning points is a collaboration that you're doing with the pbs newshour partnership with pbs newshour. We originally didn't bring on a media partner at the beginning and there were a couple of reasons why we didn't do that. I because we weren't really sure. This method is going to work empowerment journal. The model was very new to us. And so we wanted to make sure that we had that freedom and adaptability to sort of shift change and potentially fail if it was going to fail and so we didn't bring on a partner from the very beginning. We've actually been working on this project since two thousand sixteen and so when we finish up with the videos we started to think more bigger picture about where we might be able to partner with and who we might be able to partner within. It was actually peter who really pushed for us to consider a larger broadcast and so our partners we refer to a storyteller or storytellers. Who are the subjects of the video but also the directors of the video was really important to them that their stories get hurt by larger audience. get up into the world's to help potentially help others help break down some stereotypes and really reach as many people as possible. And so when we had reached out to pbs newshour. It just seemed like a really perfect fit. You know we. We spoke originally in the summertime and it was at a time when people were starting to question who's journalism for who is journalism told by Started to think more about sort of what your position is as a journalist and what role you have. I think that that has been a really big conversation. Especially in the. Us around black lives matter in so it seemed to be a really nice fit to have this new of process in a time where we were really elevating the voices of our storytellers. Who are all indigenous. Storytellers you've touched on a different things. And i think we've kind of moved on ahead and we need to step back a second empowerment journalism you know. How do you describe that and you know. How do you sort of implement that in assignment lake turning points to define empowerment journalism. I would go even further back to this idea of parachute journalism and from the beginning. The goldberg pointing center was really built on this idea. Of how do you rethink their traditional parachute. Journalism model where we have an outsider. Who's dropping into a community reporting story usually for audiences back home back. Home is usually a western audience and often that approach. Weaves a lot to be desired in terms of missing context. The reporter might hire local fixer. But the fixer doesn't necessarily have the same type of ownership over that reporting process. So sometimes what happens is that a journalist simply gets the story that they came for and that story might be one. That's been preformed in their mind. So there's not a lot of space to be open to new context or any possibilities in shifting and changing narratives and that's just inevitable when you aren't living in a community or you're not from a certain place you sort of have that outsider's perspective and so we've really started to think about. How do we reframe model. And when you re framing that model also you know who is your audience. And how can you open up that audience. So that it's near reporting is also serving the communities that are being reported on not just. Your audience is back home and when we started thinking about turning points for example that you know that idea parachute journalism has been especially true in the north end. There's been a lot of criticism of in the north. By journalists from the south end in vancouver we would be considered to be journalists from the south in my opinion. It's been really valid criticism. It's also a place where you know. New journalists will go to catch their first break but often they don't stay that long so there's a lot of turnover and there's a lot of great local reporters in the north doing really important work in living and working in those communities. But they're still a lot of parachuting a lot of taking those stories away from communities so we started developing this model that we're we called empowerment journalism. And the idea is to work together with your. Who would be your traditional story subject. So it's almost like. It's an autobiography for the storyteller. So we had our team which was largely based in vancouver and our team sort of worked as the producers of the pieces producers videographers editors but the story subject who is our storyteller was really serving as the director so they're involved in every single state of that editorial process so we would sit down with them ahead of an interview and ask them questions. Like if you were us what would you ask yourself or do you want anyone else featured in the peace or are there any that illustrate your story. And then we'd also give our own feedback. We would say things like you know. It seems like this place that is really meaningful to your story. How would you feel about filming there or we would make certain connections and say you know. It seems like your story about searching for identity. Does that framing incorrect hugh. That's the lens we're gonna use when we start aberdeen so basically with empowerment journalism. The whole power dynamic of traditional journalism is shifted. Were really there as sort of the support for the storyteller to capture their autobiographical story. Okay and i think this is probably a good point for us to talk about the specifics of turning points. What does the story. You're trying to tell. And who are the people who telling him turning points is it was. It was a really complex story. You know it looks simple on on the outside. It's eight videos. eight storytellers. Each video talks about challenges and resiliency indigenous communities in the north around alcohol use in actions but this product really started way back in twenty sixteen so we started thinking about how we might be able to tell a story that is more nuanced and sort of underscores the complexity of addictions alcohol use and this has been a community and a story that has been historically misrepresented for a very long time if you look back at the history of not only are stories about addiction in alcohol. Use heavily reliant on stereotypes when you talk about alcoholism indigenous communities are often often stories are outright racist and they also you know miss context thing mess sort of the historical traumas that exist in these communities that have led to the challenges that they face in so that was something that we thought about in terms of representation in the media and how we might be able to change that and so for us the empowerment journalism model really fit with this type of narrative. Because they're the ones with the lived experience they're the ones who are the most capable of telling their own story and so it really seemed to make sense to work together to sort of tease out. All of this sort of background information in context that follows their lived experience and so we started in twenty sixteen with just even looking for funding for this project when we were lucky enough to receive some funding from actually from our university. So the peter wall institute for advanced studies is at the university or institute at the university and they had this grant called solutions grant. Which asks you to identify a challenge in come up with ways to address that challenge so we were pretty ambitious in the fact that we were saying. Okay we'll not only. Are we going to look at the challenges parachute and parachute journalism in the north. But we're also gonna do it on topic that's been historically misrepresented in the media and so we received that funding and then we also got some more funding from our social scientists in research council which is governmental funding through the university. And then from there we. We didn't start reporting it. Seems like you know. Most journalism projects. He'd say great. I got my funding. I know my topic. No my story into my location. I'll just go out there and start reporting it. We actually didn't do that. We decided that if we were really going to embrace the empowerment model. What we what we needed was a community partner and a community advisory board so we started with that community building and building trust so we were really lucky early on to bring in william greenland as our community partner. William is which in from new vic which is about one hundred and twenty four miles north of the arctic circle in willing was also former radio broadcaster so he really understands journalism. He knows what we're trying to do when he was living in yellowknife northwest territories at the time in working as a counselor for an called the arctic indigenous wellness foundation and he has a lot of lived experience with addiction. He actually became one of our storytellers as well. So william became an integral member of our team from the beginning and he was really important. An invaluable member of our team in terms of providing guidance building connections with the community helping build out an advisory board so we put together an all indigenous advisory board for the project with writers journalists and healthcare workers. We felt like it was really important to have this board. That can help. Guide us in provide feedback along the way with how we were doing this project in the process of it once we started out our reporting we were we had eight storytellers so eight people that came forward and said not only were they willing to share their story but they were willing to share in the process of putting that story together and in some way. It's it's asking a lot of somebody. It's not just asking for one hour interview. And then you know i'll go all right. My peace in that will be that it's asking for somebody to provide feedback somebody to share their story then also review all the pieces and aberdeen and provide feedback and potentially provide more time and so we were really asking people to join our team from there. We started filming in two thousand seventeen and then it was an iterative process that we would film. And then we would we would edit and start putting the pieces together and then we would bring those pieces back to our storytellers in. Ask them for their feedback. And then we would incorporate that feedback in sometimes that required going back and doing more filming. Sometimes it involves blowing the entire piece up in starting over again but it was a really important process in the process itself. I think built a lot of trust with the community. You know we heard feedback from people that said. I'm just surprised that you're still here. You know because for so long journalists that have worked in business communities have sort of comment and taking those stories away from them and so the fact that we were still there year after year. I think really built that trust with the community that we were working with and then we also really benefited from academic lens. Wearer came at this from every ankle. Basically so we had we brought in a phd student. Whose name is maya left coach. And she actually moved to yellowknife for couple months while helping to work on this project in her entire. Phd actually based on the project and the methodology for empowerment journalism which she really helped us develop and refine and so that was kind of the process of putting the whole project together and then once the storytellers were happy with their videos than we would finalize them but at any point you know they had the opportunity to say. This isn't working. I don't wanna do this and then pull out so didn't happen. Luckily we were. We were able to get eight pieces. All storytellers who are really happy with their pieces. But it was a very process and one that i don't think a lot of organizations would have the opportunity to do like we did. I had a chance to look at three videos that you have a line in there. They're all very powerful and they all talk about addiction but because it's three different life experiences they they provide like insight to different aspects of addiction. And how they have impacted their lives and in where the people are kind of in their recovery. Found that really kind of refreshing. You talked about parachute journalism where you go in you. Have this sort of preconception. How difficult is it to avoid that to make sure that you want to go in and you wanna you wanna do a story about addiction in indigenous populations and you're basically relying on the the stories of the individuals to really kind of tell their story but hopefully from that you know gain some insight into a larger and larger truths about addiction. How difficult was that as a journalist is sort of almost you kind of hand the keys to somebody else to sort of. They're telling their story there to help them. But i guess. How involved were you in crafting the narrative or is it really. Just kind of this is the story. They're telling this is how we're helping them to tell it the best way. Yeah difficult right. You're relearning something and you're relearning it against the rules that you've been taught journalistic ethics say you don't you don't run things by your story subjects. You don't involve them in that level of process. And so we really breaking the rules with this project and it is difficult to sort of retrain yourself in obviously as journalists and a storyteller yourself you have an idea of what you think is the best story and so. This is where that collaboration was really important. We definitely came in and said you know. Here's what i'm hearing. Or here's what i think the framing should be or could be or would work best and we didn't hold back in terms of our feedback and what we thought would work. We really wanted it to be a very open collaborative process. They were totally free to say. No that that idea doesn't work or that's really not what. I'm trying to get out what i'm trying to get at is something different and so it's really just well and having that open conversation really listening. Some of the stories were pretty easy to put together. You know it had some of them had a really kind of obvious through line and didn't need to go through too many abidine before we were happy in the storyteller was happy with the outcome of the peace and others. You know went through ten twelve different drafts while we tried to figure out how to get to where it needed to be and sometimes it was about what is the story saying so one of the pieces dot still upcoming hasn't been broadcast yet is donald prince and his story really does have an interview with him. The very first interview with him is about four hours. Like there's a lot history and so trying to figure out what elements went into. The story was sort of what led to all of those iterations in all those drafts was every element tells a different story and so what. What is the piece that we're trying to put together. And sometimes it meant that we put it together and it didn't work and we had to figure out why. And what was the purpose. And who is the audience and so we would have those questions with our storytellers. Those are conversations that you have with your editor and with you know people who are focused on your social media or your audience building but we were having those conversations with our storytellers instead saying you know will who does this reach are you. Are you trying to reach young people. Are you trying to share stories about lived experiences better to resonate with certain people so donald for example he has a long history of addiction and being in and out of prison and he really did want his story to resonate with people who you know struggle with that pipeline to prison and release. Show people bad you know there is another path and so it was trying to refine his story and decide you know what parts of historian terms of trauma or lince illustrate that in a way that serves a purpose and so there were a lot of conversations. And i think that I think that that translates to any type of journalism we do. I think it's you know we come in and we do an interview and we interview for a story. But i think we should also be interviewing to just hear white some movies purposes in sharing that story with you not really becomes the heart of this project. The three stories that i saw look they. Obviously they're all about addiction And you know the the individual's roles and their identity in the native culture. You know varies their own personal life experience but there there's a lot of nuance in these. And what i like about it. This presentation has its non judgmental and then it's also not. It's not like heavily you know. You're not advocating for something. you're not. you're pushing a particular agenda or dea. You're just having these people. Tell their stories. This is their life experience and the power their words and their experience and sharing their own story is the thing that connects with the viewer. And i think that's that's a really powerful connection To make in in journalism In that we don't get that as much as we could. I think that the you guys benefit from that just because of the structure of it the the personal narrative aspect of it and also your kind of hands off sort of production that you know this you get a sense. This is really about them in. This is them talking. Sometimes you know. I in a regular news report if it's a single profile or something you know. It's it's framed way. It has a lot of the feeling of whoever that storyteller is. But this is you know in their words. very podcast. it's something that i like about it and particularly the The story that Who is the person louise told about her. Sort of coming to grips with how. She had blamed her mother for so much of the things that had gone on her life and now she was taking care of her mother and how her life and her perspective had changed. I thought that was really powerful. And the fact that you have another one that you have devon who's who's a young adult. I guess just just finished university you know. He's still early in his life has still have a lot of life to live in his has had so many lessons. Learned already so by putting these all these pieces together you kind of tell the bigger story. So i'm definitely looking forward to the the other ones in there when i wonder. Is you know you kind of said that. I mean you clearly said that took a long time. This took years of work to get to get basically handful of six or seven minute videos. That's a lot of time and a lot of effort to create this project is. This is zero away. Do you think for like a a news outlet to do this in turnaround something. That's a little more quicker or may not take up so many resources. I think so. I think that we you know leave really did take our time with this end. Part of that was also the research angle of it so having a phd student we also did an independent evaluation of the project. We didn't want to just say. Hey we did the thing In it works we wanted to. We wanted to have you know. I sort of blind about the shit about how it went. What were the strengths. What were the weaknesses. So that we could essentially share those learnings with other journalists with news. And i think there are elements. I think we're not you know. We're not naive. We know that You know you do the best. You can do deadline when you're working in a news outlet and there's always going to be parachute journalism we know that you know i think in my mind when i think about parachute journalism it often gets described in the sense of being a foreign correspondent and dropping into a new country but i think you know parachute. Journalism is dropping between community. You there's always going to be underlying context information that you don't have as somebody who's not from that community and so whether it's on the other side of the country or globe or your own city i think there are things that you can learn and so when i think is you know it's that openness to just hearing the purpose of your story subject you know. I think that having those conversations is really important. They have a reason why they are sharing with you. That might be different than the reason why you want them to share. And so i think that having those conversations in coming to an understanding with one another is really important. And i don't think we take the time as journalists sometimes to do that. I think sometimes we know what we want from somebody and we go and get it and we leave. And i also think that the other thing is as journalists. Our job is to minimize harm and sometimes publishing is harmful you know. Sometimes somebody reads a story. Thinks that doesn't reflect me. That's not what i meant. Or that's not my story. And this was something we heard a lot. From our storytellers. There is a lot of trust building that had to be done which also took a lot of time for this project because so many of them had already had experiences with journalists that were not positive and so we were coming from a deficit. framing of. Here's what your experiences have been in the past. And here's how we might do that differently. And so i think just taking that time to build trust with somebody even if seino an extra hour out of your day is really worthwhile. Because you're coming from different perspectives and people want to be seen and you know that means that you just need to take the time to understand their story and what their purposes if that makes sense. Yeah and what's really powerful about. This is the lack of. I mean if you watch them you can tell that they're really well produced that there were people who knew how to put these pieces of video together and what images are gonna be best to focus on and share the story so you see those things. Just there are also things where i think we actually did a community screening and this was also really important when we asked over. Storytellers would audience was very clear. That one of one of the main criticisms of how traditionally journalists have reported on indigenous communities is stat. They take stories away and our community partner. William greenland talked a lot about that. You know that they come in they take your story. They take it for their own means. And that's it doesn't serve. The community doesn't follow their ways of understanding their own story and so having that community screening being a debut was the really important. Because we wanted to make sure those stories lived in the communities and that they were first shown in the community and so we brought together all of our storytellers. Their friends their families we brought together. Advocates policymakers healthcare workers and then just the broader community and we did a full screening all the pieces and this is really just a way to make sure that those stories live there. I think that journalists can also do things like this right. Find ways to give your stories back to the community to make sure that those story serve the community. And just think through those things while you're thinking about publishing. I think that that can be really useful in rebuilding trust with your story subjects with the communities. You're working in reporting on and it was a really successful screening. I think that it meant a lot to everyone who attended. We had a lot of people who stood up. Who had similar lived experience on talks about what this meant to them. And so i think thinking of things like that is also a way that it can sort of take lessons away from how you make sure that your stories are living in those communities that you're reporting on that's a really good point because obviously seeing that it's going to be on pbs newshour. It's definitely gonna go for a much wider audience and journalists. Pbs newshour journalist. You're thinking you parachuted and you get your story and you come and you publish. But because this is something that grew out of the community in those one on one conversations. Yeah i think it's a it's a great idea to incorporate that one of the things that are thinking about their entire conversation is that this idea of empowerment. Journalism seems like an other part of a larger conversation. That's going on in journalism right now. About how do we represent. People who whose voices are not being heard whether it's through you know lack of diversity in your newsroom or just not understanding what particular community is and what strategies can we come up with that help us to break down the traditional barriers or get out of these traditional models of how journalists cover stories. You know just watching the videos you can see you can feel the power in the effort and everything in there and the fact that you've connected with the community makes it more powerful. If this is a national story is on the national outlet is a sort of that yeah. That's your your audiences. The people watching that show but this is you know four that community in northern canada. These are their stories. And you're not taking them. You're sharing them in being the larger truths about about addiction and people's perception about indigenous populations good stuff for sure. So what are you working on next. We always have a busier at reporting center. We just actually wrapped up documentary with a pbs frontline so lots of pbs partnerships going on so we just wrapped up that documentary and it was in partnership with frontline and the associated press on medical supply chains. So we're still doing a bit more reporting around that that was you know full documentary but there was also a series of a p stories. And so we're still doing a bit more reporting around the medical supply chains and we have a project coming out this month on. We actually received a a week of documents financial documents about off shore assets from jersey island in so we have a big investigation coming out this month on that. So yeah lots going on. We were student program that runs for the academic year so we have projects coming out about global education. Just really interesting. It's an interesting time to think about education and the promise of education and then we have products coming out about land grabs. So there's a lot going on a lot of different projects some some investigative some enterprise and again just you know those are sort of longer term projects give us lots of space and time for experimenting for collaborating for finding new methods so exciting stuff. People can can view these videos online. And we'll share the the link to it. And also i guess at. Pbs newshour is there a place where people can go to get resources about empowerment journalism. Yes oh One of the things we did in the four years we are working on. This project was that we also wrote an academic paper. It's more featuring than academic given our backgrounds but our research manager maya. She was the first author of this paper. And then peter and i contributed in so it gives a sense of you know what in harmony journalism is an what lessons that we learned from working on this project so there is a paper that people can read if they're interested in the process and then maya's dissertation is forthcoming. So you know there will be some more sort of on the research side. That's coming out hopefully in the next. How about empowerment journalism as we continue to learn in home. This method britney. Thanks for talking about this. I encourage people check out the videos. Empowerment journalism is something. I think people need to be looking into thinking about. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having you appreciate it. You've been listening to. It's all journalism a weekly podcast about the people who make the news. You can find out more about us in past episodes at its older. Listen dot com while you're visiting our website when sign up for the. It's all journalism newsletter. You get all the latest info about our podcast including episode notes and news about live events and upcoming interviews go. it's all journalism dot com to subscribe. It takes a lot of people to create an episode of. It's all journalism. Nicole briscoe produces episode angrily rudder web content. Nick you pray wrote our theme music abreast help with our booking nicholas hunter provided a web assist. And i'm your host michael o'connell thanks for listening. Did you know that. Three out of four people are dehydrated. And they don't even know it. That's crazy so i drink a liquid i-i've it's the fastest. Most efficient way to stay hydrated. In fact every serving can hydrate you two to three times faster and more efficiently than water alone and staying hydrated can boost your immunity. So i'm drinking a lot of stuff right now but wait. It gets better right now. They're running an incredible sale. During valentine's day get thirty percent off their entire site. Today through sunday february fourteenth their flavors are outstanding. and not only is it amazing for hydration. It's packed with five essential vitamins. B three b five b six b twelve and vitamin c and has more potassium than a banana. 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Biden announces vaccine eligibility by May 1 for all adults
"Good morning. I'm taylor wilson and this is five things you need to know friday. The twelfth of march twenty twenty one today covid nineteen long haulers vaccines up to the general public in may and more Some of the top headlines a judge in the trial of former minneapolis police officer. Derek chauvin has granted prosecutors requests to add a third degree. Murder charge show already faces second degree murder and manslaughter. In the death of george floyd last summer security forces in myanmar killed at least ten people protesting the military coup there on thursday. An independent expert has cited growing evidence of crimes against humanity and one of the biggest snowstorms in years is forecast to slam the denver metro area this weekend just days after spring. Like temperatures of seventy degrees this week. A president joe biden addressed the nation on thursday night. The speech came after he signed into law. A nearly two trillion dollar covid nineteen relief bill. Sending fourteen hundred dollar checks too many americans as soon as this weekend one of the headline grabbing moments of biden's address that he'll direct states to make all adults eligible for vaccines in a matter of weeks. I'm announcing the direct allstate's tribes and territories to make all adults people eighteen and over eligible to be vaccinated. No later than may one. Let me say that again. All adult will be eligible to get a vaccine no later than may one. That's much earlier than expected. Let me be clear. That doesn't mean everyone's going to have that shot immediately but it means you able to get in line. Beginning may one every adult will eligible. Get their shot and to do this. We're going to go from a million shots a day that i promised in december before i was sworn in to maintaining beating our current pace of two minutes shots today outpatient. The rest of the world biden has been getting relatively high marks for his pandemic response a new. Npr pbs newshour. Marist poll found that six in ten americans approve of the job. He's doing handling the pandemic. it's also not just democrats giving a thumbs up among the sixty two percent who approved thirty percent where republicans and twenty two percent were trump supporters during. His address biden stressed. That americans need to continue to be vigilant about the virus. He also referred to the more than five hundred thirty thousand deaths in the country from covid nineteen and separately condemned racist attacks on asian americans. You can watch guidance full address on usa. Today's youtube page to study suggests that corona virus symptoms felt in the first week of infection. May be a good predictor of how long they will last health reporter adriana. Rodriguez has more people that they call cova. Long haulers are people who have covid may have recovered from kobe but still have persisting symptoms for a really long time so in that particular study they were as long as twenty eight days as long as fifty six days but one study found that about thirty percent of people with kobe had reported persistent symptoms as long as nine months so it can go on for a long time and it does happen to more people than we think so the most recent study has found that some symptoms the amount of symptoms. You have an also. Some risk factors are associated with long. Cove it so basically. You're more likely maybe to develop this condition or syndrome if you present five or more symptoms in your first week of infection. The five symptoms that most people experience during the first week that were most predictive of becoming along holler where fatigue headache. Hoarse voice Muscle pain and difficulty breathing. Another interesting finding from this one study was that it's categorized the kobe long haulers between two groups so one group had these five symptoms but then another group that were more likely to have long cove. It had sort of multi system so they had fever or they had Gastrointestinal symptoms that persist for a very long time as scientists and researchers are looking more into it as more people are coming out of the woodwork with developing this sort of condition. The government actually announced an initiative that they're going to be putting more money into this sort of research to be able to find out the predictors of this so that they're able to study people before they become long haulers and understand the mechanism of what causes log cove. It and then out of that maybe also find a treatment. Meanwhile as coronavirus cases continued to drop around the country there are new record numbers of variants almost every day. The us on thursday reported a record four hundred thirty seven new variants since the previous report on tuesday therein cases in the us have doubled since february twenty fourth. We could be entering a golden age of electric vehicles. It's taken consumers. A while to catch on but electric vehicles are set for a sharp increase in sales new products and investments. That could eventually make the gasoline engine. A thing of the past in two thousand eighteen just fifteen percent of americans said they will probably or definitely own electric vehicle in the next five years that's doubled to thirty percent and twenty twenty one and now fifty. Two percent of americans say they will do so. In the next ten years business reporter nathan bomani explores the changing consumer trend. We have seen electric vehicles emerging on in the auto industry for many years now but they just really struggled to get off the ground gas vehicles continue to dominate the industry. But that may be starting to change and it's really several factors battery costs are coming down and that's a big reason. Finally electric vehicles are becoming a little bit more affordable still more expensive than gas cars but definitely coming down in price. And i think what's also happening is automakers are realizing that even if the the prices and their today it will be there tomorrow. Metaphorically speaking and so. They need to skate tour. The puck is going here because they can't afford to be left behind. If you know the whole auto industry transitions to electric vehicles in five. Ten fifteen years general motors volvo and jaguar have just recently announced. They're ending gas vehicle sales within anywhere from five to fifteen years and of course tesla already only sells electric cars. So i think if we see more commitments like that will know that the gas vehicle is on its last legs to read. Nathan's full story search electric vehicles on usa today dot com pressure for new york. Governor andrew. cuomo to resign continues to build. And on thursday a letter signed by fifty nine democratic state lawmakers calling for him to step down assembly speaker coral he also said that the chamber would conduct its own investigation that comes after a sixth accuser came forward on wednesday saying that cuomo sexually harassed her. The latest case may have also been the most damning an aide told her supporters that cuomo groped her at the governor's mansion that would counter cuomo's previous comments that he never touched anyone inappropriately assemblywoman patricia fahey said the latest allegations. Are the final straw. Latest one cost me sleep last night. This latest one is is a new level. The sixth one at racist to a new level and i have been holding a after numerous requests. They've been folding to say. We need the investigation to continue. I have tremendous respect for attorney general but this one is a new level. This issue of groping it can lead to other charges or higher levels of sexual harassment and that will remain to be seen state attorney general. Letitia james is also investigating. The allegations. cuomo has urged lawmakers to wait for that investigation to wrap up before making decisions. The days of sharing netflix's passwords might be numbered. A new effort to crack down on shared accounts has already been ruled out for a few users viewers see a message pop up asking them to verify their account via text or email. And if you can't confirm you'll get a prompt to set up a new account. That comes with a thirty day free trial. The likely unpopular move comes as netflix's faces increasing competition from hulu. Hbo max disney plus and others. It's estimated that about a third of netflix's users have shared their passwords with others. Thanks for listening to five things. If you have a sec. Please drop us five stars on apple podcasts and he can leave a review there as well you can also listen wherever you find your audio. Thanks to clear thornton and shannon green for their great work on the show. Five things is part of the usa. Today conference tournaments are tipping off. Bubble teams are making their final push. Top seeds or preparing for what they hope is a long run. Draftkings sportsbook america's top rated sportsbook app is putting new customers in the center of the action. Four dollars on an underdog when two hundred and fifty six dollars if they win. It's that simple. That's bet four dollars on an underdog in select college basketball games and if they win you collect two hundred and fifty six dollars. The bank is open. Download the top rated draft sportsbook app and use code art. Nineteen when you sign up to turn four dollars into two hundred and fifty six dollars at the underdog of your choosing pulls off the upset. That's code art. Nineteen for a limited time. Only draftking sportsbook must be twenty one or older virginia. Only new customers only restrictions apply see draftkings dot com slash sportsbook for details. If you or so many no has a gambling problem. Call virginia problem gambling helpline at eight eight eight five three to thirty five hundred.
How Your Memory Works (and Sometimes Doesnt) & Why We Actually Need Viruses
"In this episode is brought to you by comcast since two thousand eleven comcast is connected more than four million students from low income families to the internet. Now they're launching more than one thousand wi fi connected lift in community centers nationwide to provide safe spaces to get online learn more at comcast dot com slash education. Today on something. You should know the next time you get a song stuck in your head. I'll tell you the best way to get rid of it. Then how your memory works and doesn't work and why it's so often inaccurate. Yeah memories through what happened or are not accurate or reliable. They're quite that's all. You're so sure of memory for what happened. And you're arguing with your spouse because he thinks something else happened. You're probably both rock. Then did you know that when you print documents some funds us a lot more ink than others and you might be sick of hearing about viruses but actually for the most part. They're a good thing. I would not like to live in a world in through renault viruses. Not only that. But i'm going to explain a little bit later. How if we were living in a world without viruses. You and i wouldn't be picked all this today on. You should know today. We're welcoming a new sponsor to the podcast. Ip vanish vpn now a little about ip vanish. Vpn if you care about the security of your online activity ip vanish vpn is a quick and easy way to start protecting yourself. Rated four point seven out of five stars on trust pilot. I p vanished provides an encrypted connection for all your internet traffic helping to prevent websites in wi fi providers and even hackers from intercepting. Your data help keep financial details. Your personal information and your online activity safe from threats with ip vanish get started with this limited time offer and say fifty percent off monthly and annual subscriptions visit ip vanished dot com slash s. y. s. k. somethingyoushouldknow fascinating intel. The world's top. I and practical advice you can use in your life today. Something you should. Now mike carruthers. I ever get a song stuck in your head ever get that song stuck in your head. I've actually actually had that song. Get stuck in my head. That little musical intro. There those things are called ear worms and it seems that the more you try to get it out of your head the more it keeps playing over and over again. Well here is some well researched advice for getting rid of those songs that keep playing over and over and over. This is from a study from twenty sixteen. The first piece of advice is the chew gum. Gum chewing reduces the number of involuntary musical thoughts and affects the music hearing experience and it interferes with a person's ability to recall words from their short term memory. So it made it more difficult for that song to stick listen to the actual song see. I would think that would make it worse but it turns out it actually helps it. Go away listen to a different song or go talk to someone. Often i guess these ear worms get stuck in your head when you're alone but if you engage with others or go pay attention to another song. It fades away. Do a puzzle. I guess that's just distraction but it seems to help or just let it go. Don't try to get rid of it. Don't try to get it out of your head. Just move on and and eventually it goes away. The study found that classic rock songs were the most common earworm inducing songs and at the top of the list were songs by lady gaga katy perry queen kylie minogue end journey. And that is something you should know. Why do you remember some things forever and other things you quickly forget. Why do you sometimes recall events differently than someone else who was right there at the same time. Why do you remember odd little things from years ago but can't remember where you put your keys ten minutes ago and is your memory finite can only hold so many memories. The some good questions that are about to be tackled by lisa. Genova lisa is a neuroscientist writer and speaker who has appeared on the dr oz. Show the today show. Pbs newshour and she's author of a book called. Remember the science of memory and the art of forgetting lisa. Hi michael thank you for having me. So what is your memory. It's not like you couldn't like a brain and say oh there's the memory part of the brain. So what is the memory. There is no memory. Bank memory isn't stored in a place. It's not like files in a file cabinet so if you think about something you remember the first day on the beach with your friends and family and your kids are playing soccer. The sunset is beautiful. Lady gaga is playing on the the portable radio. You've got all stars in s'mores wine and beer so lady gaga has nothing to do with always turns and wine and a sunset but because i experienced all those things and pay attention to them those different neurons the sights. The sounds the smells the tastes all of those are located in very different areas of my brain all of those things become connected and then of any one aspect can trigger the full expression of all of the other connected parts. That's a memory in. When i remember what is it. I'm remembering. Am i remembering my memory or a my really remembering the event in other words is my stored memory not necessarily reality and doesn't it change over time and that's what i keep remembering and that's why like when i go back to the house i grew up in. It doesn't look anything. Like i remember it even though i think i remember it. So there's different kinds of memory and some of them are more accurate and reliable than others. So you're talking about There's memory for stuff and information sort of the wikipedia of your brain and that really is pretty faithful over time. So if i memorized six times six in the third grade like i'm not going to remember it as being forty seven today. I want to always remember that. That's thirty six. It's not gonna change but my memory for stuff that happened. That is highly likely to change over time. It begins with a distortion because we our brains are not video cameras. Recording a constant stream of every sight and sound were exposed to we can only captured to begin with what we pay attention to right. So if you think about your childhood says say christmas morning You are going to remember something different than your little brother and something even different from the parents notice so what. Your memory of happened is sort of. The universal truth is just a slice of reality that captured your interest to begin with then over time it can change because every time you reminisce. Think about right down. Talk about a memory for something that happened. You have an opportunity to edit it and you will store the edited version over your rewrite over the original version. So if i talk about that. Christmas morning and my brother adds a piece of information. Oh you remember. Uncle bill came over. You had forgotten about that. Didn't include it in your original memory but now you do remember that they came as you add that to your memory. If you if it's far you know something like september eleventh. Two thousand one. Your memory can get distorted because you've watched the news you've listened to so many reports red zone reports about it. You've listened to other people talk about it. You can incorporate that information into your memory. And that gets stored over the original so our memories for what happened are are very fanciful. And a not accurate. I think everybody. I know i've had memories. I have memories of things that have happened. But i i know that my memory has changed over time and yet even though the memory is is probably a little different than i remembered it five years ago. I don't think of it as any less accurate. I i think my memory today is is just as accurate as it was before and yet it's different. I'm this has happened many times. There are folks who answered a questionnaire right after the space shuttle challenger exploded about where they were who they were with. You know how they heard about the news how they felt about it. And then we're reinterviewed two and a half years later and gave very different answers from what they gave immediately after the explosion and then when they were shown their own handwriting that took place. Two and a half years ago describing. Who you who. They were with what they were doing. They weren't dumbstruck. Couldn't explain it and stuck to their memory today versus their own handwriting two years ago. So memory what happened is a funny thing. It does seem. Sometimes it memories disappear that they're gone forever and yet there are those memories that might seem like they're gone forever but then some trigger will bring them back like they're in there. They just need something to pull them out. And this gets back to what you said about a childhood home right. So you know if i live in new york city and and i'm in manhattan and i said i grew up in rural vermont. And you asked me to describe you know my childhood neighborhood or or about my childhood home. I might not come up with much among amidst all the skyscrapers in the busy city. But if you take me in the car and drive me to that neighborhood in vermont and all of a sudden. I'm surrounded by the context cues that are associated with those memories. Those become triggers that once activated can then triggered the activation of all of the other neurons connected to it. So oh there's the weeping willow and there's mrs dailies house and mike in joey lived right next door and and so the memories come flooding back. When you're in the context of memories that were lot seemingly long forgotten or not accessible. That happened to me. I walked in after several years of having not been in my high school. I walked into my high school and it was like i had never left. And all these memories of people in place events in things that i haven't thought of forever came flooding back and as it's as if it had just happened and it was the strangest thing and that's happened a couple of times to me. Yeah because memory consists of all of the sensory and emotional elements right so when you're not in the presence of of those cues your brain isn't being activated specifically but if you go back to high school. There are there in the lockers. The color of the lockers the smell of the hallway the stairwell All of those visual The the the olfactory attach all of it can start to stimulate your brain and then it's not just the sights and sounds and smells it then activates things that are connected to it. There's oh there's the memory of of the girlfriend from senior year. Who's locker was to lockers down from yours and you never even would have thought of that. Had you not been physically in that space. So is is the brain when it forgets all these things and then but they're still there because they can come flooding back with the right triggers. Is that some just some kind of evolutionary efficiency that the brain is doing to make room for other things and if we need those we can pull them up but the the brain is working in in some sort of efficient fashion so that new things can come in. Yeah this is a little bit of a misconception too. So there's you know people will sail. You're only using ten percent of your brain. And oh i need to forget things so i can make room for others in. No we have over a hundred trillion connections available to us in our brain and so there's not a limit capacity so i mean. There is a a a japanese engineer. Who at the age of sixty nine memorized over one hundred thousand digits of pi. And so here. We have someone who's at an age that we would associate with being elderly and having maybe a diminished memory and for a long lived life. That's fairly full of stuff in the brain and yet he has room for one hundred thousand digits of by. We always have room to remember more so it's not that we need to be efficient in sort of tuck some things away or not. Get rid of certain number of memory so we can create new ones. Memories aren't don't feel available to us if we're not using them or searching for them their memories for how to do things. Culture calls it muscle. Memory it's also called implicit memory but said the memories for how to do things right so how to brush your teeth how to ride a bike. type on your computer. These become unconscious automatic pilot. We know how to do them things and we can not do them for years. So for example. I was a skier when i was younger. And then i didn't ski for over ten years as busy having kids and moved far away from mountains. And then when i got back up on skis. I had a moment where i thought. Do i remember how to do this. And so my brain hadn't used remember how to ski over a decade. But as soon as i got on the skis my brain knew exactly what to do. So muscle memory has integrity over. Time doesn't matter how many years you got. Let's just that's where the saying just like riding a bike It's in there even. You don't have to get rid of it to make room for other memories but that's a misnomer right. I mean the memory is in your brain. It's not in your muscle thank you. Yes that isn't misnomer right. So the choreography to the chicken dance. You know it seems like your muscles know what to do but they only know what to do because your brain is sending neurons to motor neurons to your muscles telling them what to do. So yes this is why it's called a. It's it's called muscle memory but it's a memory that that lives in your brain for sure we're talking about memory. If my memory is correct and my guest is lisa genova. She's a neuroscientist and speaker and author of the book. Remember the science of memory and the art of forgetting. Do you own or rent your home. Sure you do. And i bet it can be hard work you know what's easy bundling policies with geico geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's or renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to geico dot com. Get a quote and see how much you could save. Its gyco easy visit. Geico dot com. Today that's geiko dot com today. We're welcoming a new sponsor to the podcast. Ip vanish vpn. Now a little about vanish. Vpn if you care about the security of your online activity. I p vanish. Vpn is a quick and easy way to start protecting yourself. Rated four point seven out of five stars. On trust pilot i p vanished provides an encrypted connection for all internet traffic helping to prevent websites in wi fi providers and even hackers from intercepting. Your data help. Keep your financial details. Your personal information and your online activity safe from threats with ip vanish get started with this limited time offer and say fifty percent off monthly and annual subscriptions visit. I p vanished dot com slash s. y. s. k. So at least you mentioned things like nine eleven and when the challenger exploded and those those kind of memories where everybody remembers where they were when those big traumatic events happened with those seem like they're very special very unique kind of memories. This is true and they feel vividly remembered richly detailed and we feel confident in the accuracy of the even years later and while you will remember all of these things. Look i remember where. I was when i heard that princess. Diana died Nine eleven for shore the details around it even though there confidently held are very often not accurate and you know this is okay for the most part it gets interesting when we think about eyewitness testimony which relies on the memory for what happened but all of these cup flash bulb memories which is a little bit of a misnomer. Because it's not a photograph of what happened but again folks who were interviewed after all of these super flash memories are highly emotional shocking events that do feel personal to you So like i have a flash memory of of where i was what was going on After the boston marathon bombing. But maybe if you're from from paris france you might have heard about the boston marathon bombing and it's certainly shocking but you might have a flash bulb memory of it because boston might not be personal for you and i'm from boston so while you will remember these events always the details of actually what happened more over time and we've seen this over and over again. All the studies that that interview folks immediately after the event and then interview them again a year or two years later and most of the details are off. People don't remember accurately knowing what i now know about memory and what i hope to share with. Y'all is that you know when you're so sure of memory for what happened. And you're arguing with your spouse because he thinks something else happened. You're probably both wrong. would it doesn't say much for i. Witness testimony does it now. It doesn't and you know there are. There are many psychologists out there who've written a lot about this one in particular named elizabeth loftus. Who is really trying to educate the court system the just you the judicial system that there are a lot of life sentences and death sentence the sentences that have relied exclusively on eyewitness testimony and since then. Dna evidence has shown that these folks are innocent So it's really. It's very scary to rely on it. our memories are For what happened are very vulnerable to suggestion. So for example if i were to show you a video of a car crash and then after the video i ask you. How fast were the cars going when they collided. Say used a thirty miles an hour. If i had instead asked you. How fast the cars going when they smashed. You'd say something faster. He said they were going. Forty miles an hour so just the substitution of a single verb can change your memory for what you what you believe you saw happened. Is there any way to prevent that in in other words are in knowing what you know. Are there ways to cement memories and keep them real or this is just how the human brain works and unfortunately this is how our human brains work even when we write something down we narrow the experience of what we the memory of what we actually experience for it because we can only we only captured so much. Like i if i you know in this conversation with you right now if i were to then right you know dear diary. Today i had a conversation with michael carruthers and i talked about what we talked about. I if i wrote down what we talked about. I certainly wouldn't include all of it and so when i go to visit my diary and read. What what we talked about i'm really going to reinforce. And therefore only remember what i've written down. And i will forget any elements that i forgot to write down So yeah memories through. What happened are not accurate or reliable. They're quite fickle Our members for the stuff we learn our way more stable and reliable than memories for how to do. Things are really reliable. Our memories for what we want to do later just called your perspective. Memory is probably the worst of the mall and again this is part of the the price of playing poker here for being human it our memories for what we wanna do later This is like your brains to do lists are all it's awful. We weren't designed to do this so like it planning to like. Oh i need to remember to call my mom or take out the trash or needs to remember to take my heart medication is you don't have cue that triggers that recall wet. When you're supposed to remember it or if you haven't written it down and have some sort of text alert on your phone or you're not in the routine of looking at your calendar. You are very likely to get what you plan to do later. One of those people who can never remember where they put their keys were they put their glasses and they they get their phones. They're always using the find your phone thing because they can't remember where they left their phone and people worry that you know the that's a memory problem most of what we can't find so there's a oh i can't remember where i put my phone. I can't find my glasses. Where'd i parked my car. Ninety nine percent of the time. This is not a memory problem. this is a. This is a symptom of distraction. You haven't paid attention to where you put those things in the first place and the very first necessary step in creating any memory is attention. There is a perception though and the experience that many people report that as you get older. Your memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. Yes yeah so. Processing speeds do slow down. You know twenty. Five year olds experienced several tip of the tons a week. That experience. where you're like. Oh what's the name of the actor on my god. I know i know it. I can't get it. That will increase as you age because the processing speed of your non slows down. So they're chugging a little slower to get to where the turn to go but it's the same phenomenon you're not you know your brain isn't decaying you're not experiencing dementia or a disease. This is not a reason for diagnosis. So it's frustrating. But it's not a cause for panic or shame or diagnosis. It's you know again. This is the price of playing poker. Ab- strikes can can make us fuzzy to chronic. Stress is really bad for our memory. And i think that you know. In the last year in particular a lot of folks have been in sort of drowning in chronic stress so chronic stress is really bad for being able to for memories of new. Things retrieving memories of stuff. You already know. And will increase your risk of alzheimer's in the future. And and i think older folks notice it more. So if you're twenty five and you can't remember the name of the movie that your friend recommended don't immediately then jumped to on my god losing my memory. I'm going to get alzheimer's you're twenty five. You're immortal you just you. Don't hesitate to look it up on your phone. Because you've been tethered to a device practically since birth but if you're fifty five and you can't remember the name of the movie a lot of us start to panic and immediately jumped on my god. I'm losing my mind. So some of it's just that psychological leap but there are times when people report especially older people things like they left the oven on or they can't remember how to spell a very calm and word and it's not that they can't do it. It's not a speed problem a processing problem. They just don't remember right. So that can be a cause for concern but again before people panic. Understanding how memory works and how it is supported and facilitated and that if those things are present. Maybe that's the reason you're foggy today. So if the you know we require seven to nine hours of sleep at night for your brain to clear away. The debris accumulated during the business of being awake at night the day before and it consolidates the memories. The stuff that you learned that day before on the stuff that you experience gets laid down and locked into a lasting memory while you sleep and so if you're sleep deprived you will essentially wake up the next day with a little bit of amnesia. An inability to learn new things. Remember new things that day. So you'll be compromise the next day. If you're not getting enough sleep so you can check in with yourself. Is that going on am. I overly stressed You know have. I been sedentary for too long if you don't Exercising is probably the best thing you can do for your memory in people are looking for the pill. The supplement the the manager bullet. It's it's exercise is really the best thing we know of. So i you know those you distracted again. You can't remember what you don't pay attention to so if you're cooking on the stove and you've got young kids running around and there's some crisis in there crying in there screaming and they're fighting or the phone rings you're distracted. Maybe that's why you left the oven on If none of those things are happening in your in your worried. I definitely recommend a conversation with your doctor. I mean i think people are so afraid of anything. That's going on from the neck up and they they keep quiet about it and they don't talk to the doctors about what's going on and i'd like to see that change you know we're not afraid of talking about our heart health right so we'll get our blood pressure taken check for cholesterol and we'll count the number of steps and we're all you know sort of in on having an influence over our heart health. I'd love to see folks the unafraid of having a conversation with their doctor about their their brain health and cognitive health. Well it's interesting to listen to you because as as amazing as the human memory is and the things that can do it. Sure has a lot of deficiencies memories. A bit of a dunce. It's gonna forget to call your mother. It's gonna forget most of your life because most of her life is actually spent during routine stuff and we don't remember routine stuff but that's okay. It doesn't matter that. I don't remember the details of every morning shower or what. I ate for breakfast three weeks ago. i think our brains are really good at remembering what's meaningful and what's what matters and i think understanding how memory works and wyatt forgets can relieve us of some of the unnecessary stress that we're putting on ourselves when we forget stuff that's normal for our human brains to forget you know it's kind of sad really. I always like to think that my memory's pretty sharp. I think most people like to think they're memories pretty good but after listening to you. It's pretty clear. Our memories suck. But i guess all of our memories sucks so as least the playing fields pretty level. Lisa genova has been my guess. She's a neuroscientist speaker and writer and the name of her book is remember the science of memory and the art of forgetting. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks lisa awesome. Thank you so much. Stay safe be well you know. I've always thought it's funny. That people who are concerned about their health take vitamins. But they don't always know. Just how healthy the vitamins are. I mean what's in them. Is it what it says it is. What else is in them. Artificial colors fillers sugar. Who knows know for sure when you take vitamins from ritual which is why i've ordered ritual vitamins rituals clean. Vegan friendly multivitamin is formulated with high quality nutrients in bioavailable forms. That your body can actually use and you can be sure. You're not getting anything. You don't want no fillers. No junk just the that. Your body needs rituals. Delayed release. capsule designed delivers high quality nutrients including vitamin d. Three in just two pills a day. I like that too pills. Easy as can be ritual is designed with your life stage in mind. They have formulas for women. Men and teens ritual multivitamins are scientifically developed to help support different life stages and this is the really easy part. Your multivitamins are delivered right to your door. Every month with free shipping you can start snooze or cancel your subscription at any time. And if you don't love ritual within your first month they'll refund your first order. Get key nutrients without all the b. s. ritual is offering something you should know listeners. Ten percent off your first three months visit ritual dot com slash something to start your ritual today ritual dot com slash something. It can be a little frustrating. Especially if you're in a hurry or running late and you find yourself at a railway crossing waiting for a train and if the signals are going and the trains not even there yet you may feel tempted to try to sneak across. The tracks was ever to the naked eye. Trains often appear to be further away and moving slower than they actually are and they cannot stop quickly. Even if the engineer hits the emergency brakes right away it can take a train over a mile to stop over a mile to stop by that time. It's too late and the result is potentially deadly crash. The point is you can't know how quickly the train will arrive. The train can't stop quickly even if it sees you. It ends in disaster if the signals are on the train is on its way and you just need to remember one thing stop. Trains can't paid for by nitsa in the last year. or so. i know. I and i suspect you have had it up to here. With the corona virus. I think we can all agree that viruses are bad news. So you might be interested in hearing that viruses actually play an important role in the world. According to frank ryan frank is a virologist physician pioneering evolutionary biologists at the university of sheffield in the uk and he is author of the book virus fear from common colds to ebola epidemics. Why we need the viruses. That frank welcomed the something you should know. Thank you very much mike. I'm glad to be here. So i have to say my gut reaction is you know. Don't need viruses. They make people sick. They kill a lot of people. And as we have all witnessed can disrupt everybody on an entire planet to which you would say what. I would not like to live in a world in which there were no viruses. Not only that. But i'm going to explain a little bit later. How if we were living in a world without viruses. You and i wouldn't exist so explain that because i think my perception of viruses is there nothing but destructive. They cause nothing but harm to whatever they come in contact with. So where's the good about twenty years ago marine biologist begun to explore the true nature of what's going on in all the oceans of the world. Now you we you go for the bathe in the ocean and you look down a water. That looks crystal clear that water is not empty. That water is absolutely teeming with bacteria if if those bacteria and they replicated an extraordinary rate if those bacteria were allowed to just continue to replicate like that. The oceans would be toxic gaming mass of bacteria. You wouldn't dream putting a fourteen them. And of course there'd be very unhealthy for all of the creatures that live in the oceans while they discovered is. There's an extraordinary symbiotic relationship between those massive number billions and billions of bacteria in the oceans and power more numerous viruses cold bacteria. Fungi viruses far viruses. The viruses have a truce in my relationship with bacteria that the virus sometimes enter the bacteria. Infected if you want to call it that but inside the bacteria the virus off the dorm and stage and doesn't do anything then at some stage and there'll be some signal other single it the viruses inside the bacteria on a colossal scale when they do that the bacteria than russia's called lices and all of the structural entities proteins and inorganic compounds and everything else from the bacteria are released into the ocean. This is actually the basis of the oceanic food chain. Something else happened about ten years ago and again most of the work on this done. By american scientists american biologists people begin to think well if if the oceans absolutely full of bacteria viruses what about manned and they actually started looking soil and they've found exactly the same thing soil is full of bacteria fast bass numbers meeting to say ten to the twenty eighth viruses. We couldn't imagine what that means. The numbers are absolutely vast numbers of virus in the oceans and soil outnumber all of the other lifeforms on earth including all the bacteria by a factor of ten to a hundred fold so if viruses disappeared overnight. What would happen to our oceans would happen to us oil. Hey become horrible stinking mess. Bacteria but also the fertility of the soil and the the kind of thought the for tillerson but various other aspects of the ocean food chains of the oceans but cease. It would be a world in which we couldn't possibly carry on live. How many viruses would you guess on the earth. Well this is they said in the oceans who attend to the twenty eight. That's i think ten times ten hundred ten two hundred thousand and go up to twenty eight. It's meaningless time. It's it's so massive. You just can't computer my deal with it. But i'd break couldn't possibly deal with that. We don't think of numbers like that people to people talk foolishly like it's more than all of the stars in the sky and all this it's just meaningless cut. I don't believe anyone can count them. And are they all related. No no the virus. The world virology. There's numerous different kinds of virus. Any many different kinds of viruses people say well how can viruses do the host good. Well i'm going to talk to you about three relationships. That will explain that. I think it'd be surprised because you'll be acquainted with all three of it but the first thing is classical example of the australian rabbits. Australia was suffering a plague of rabbits. It didn't know what to do about it and they're gobbling up all the grasslands huge huge numbers. They knew that a virus of the brazilian would rabbit was lethal to the european road. The australian rabbits european taking over bureau in the late nineteenth centuries of food that instead of bringing the brazilian would rabbit over to australia. Old they brought with its virus. His virus was the myxoma fires the mix some of ours nonlethal to the brazilian would rabid when they injected them into about thirty or so australia rapids. Release them out into the wild wet. Season comes along biting insects. That's transmitted within three months. Nineteen nine point. Eight percent of the ravitz mistrial dead nine thousand nine point eight percent. What would have happened if the brazilian would rub it had with its virus. The brazilian would rabbit with now. Colonize australia virus would made the way for this host point. Two percent of the australian rabbits were killed. There were sickly. As a result of the virus. They had no rivals and the territory. Now they begin to multiply today. Australia's one sport full of rabbits. But the rabbits have a partner partner of is now. We're looking at the koala australia policy. It entirely different puttin australian koalas currently suffering from what in effect aids while aids. They're infected by a wreck virus retroviruses causing all of this autumn illnesses. We saw in human aids. You know they didn't foam is and tumors and all the horrible illnesses that we saw in humans with aids but it isn't killing all them. It's cutting them in time. The only koalas would be left. Be those who are resistant to the action of the virus. The coating is creating a new virus host relationship. Now going to call that can be up to live with it. And then it'll do strange things will come to the minute. It may completely changed the evolution of the koala in britain at the moment. We've got something in between we got. The american. Red squirrel was brought into britain about a century ago. it's carrying a virus they. It's called a squirrel squirrel pox virus so these two the british native red squirrel if it's allowed to continue without interference that won't be on eight red schools left and the grey squirrel and it symbian occupy the territory. You see exactly the same thing. Aggressive symbiosis between virus and host. A virus is contributing to its host. It's giving the tennessee but as you say there are all these Uncountable numbers of viruses. Why is it that occasionally one like the virus that we're facing now shows up and does such devastation. When obviously most of them we barely notice. I think i think that's a very good question. And it goes back to. That was talking about that aggressive symbiosis right at the beginning. All of the animals and nature all those wild animals out there have a cluster of different viruses that the virologist would use the term are co evolving with them co evolving. Been symbiotic with. They all have them now. One of the animals that has more virus mammals all the mammals particularly of koi volving viruses and when scientists have looked at them to see which has the most which perhaps has moved viruses. That might be dangerous to us. They discovered that it was bats. Different species of bats. Bats are actually the most. I have the most species within the family of all the mammals or lots of different kinds of bats. And they're all carrying viruses if another mammal comes into close proximity to another mammal. That's carrying viruses. There is a possibility that the virus will jump species from his normal host into the species. That's coming into contact with an almost. Certainly the code has come from humans. Come into coming into contact either with bats or possibly with s species that got into close contact with bats and then got into contact with humans. The original host of the corona viruses are bats. I thought the prevailing wisdom was that it was created in a lab. I don't think so. I don't think so because the so called spine of this corona virus is absolutely nothing like the previous on sars and mers for example. don't have that spine. If a lab was working on viruses to try and fiddle and just to change them variously obviously stopped with viruses that were known already and they use them this viruses if they would have to create a complete virus from scratch to make this one and i think that that's way beyond the ability of any laboratory to do so i think the likelihood is this has come either directly or indirectly bats and there corona virus and bats are very similar genomes to this one so it's highly likely that that's the explanation the other thing that's important in the explanation. Is you know. People compare corona of the cogan to the great flu of nineteen eighteen so called spanish but the popular human population at the time of the spanish flu was one point. Eight billion the human population today is seven point eight billion and that tells you all the other scare stories. We hear about global warming. You know that is that that this huge increase in the global human population is forcing people to move out into areas. That they wouldn't have moved into before it's bringing more and more people into contact with fear or sort of symbiosis between particularly with mammals and viruses. And i think that the reason why viruses for instance he that came from chimpanzees and africa. Aids came from chimpanzees and africa. This will almost certainly can bet mas saws almost certainly came from bats. And i think that i think it's another impact really sort of human population burgeoning to levels. That are difficult to support. And i think we're asking for trouble living in a world where the such a pressure on humans they're forced move for food sources space and everything else into fear larry and so this is increased. The risk was of these things emerging so one of the things. I've always wondered about viruses. But i guess you could ask the same question about cancer or anything else is why do these things seek to destroy. When ultimately they end up destroying themselves. But i don't think they say to destroy that. don't think i think they the problem with viruses. There's only one fourth controlling viruses and that's evolutionary forces. There everybody anybody who studies viruses in the genus would realized though the ultimate person of evolution losing responses. Because it's so simple in this cia that that's all that works with them. They respond to rougerie forces. They it for example. You've got corona virus spreading in population because of different groups spreading different areas. Different landscape varies within the population and the virus is mutating extraordinary rate. So any any subgroup of the virus that is better read infecting people better replicating itself will dominate. Natural selection will select the one. That's best the doing. It didn't say that natural selection is thinking thing to choose the fires. All you're really saying is that the virus two does it best will dominate. And that's what happens once whereas like that starts to move. You got the affluent naked application of darwinian natural selection in the one that does it best dominates. And that's what's happening. That's and why do why does this virus. Why does co vid become variant. Why are these other strains of it. What what causes that. That's exactly what i've been talking about. What when they say variant of kobe. All it is. Is that the genome of the virus. When it replicates it doesn't do it very doesn't do it perfectly. It makes mistakes. We do every human every human. When they're born gets the a mixture of the two parents would actually again. It isn't a perfect process. Replicating the dna other a small number of little changes called mutations and other words single point mutations of virus mutates faa more than we do their control of their reputation as much poorer than ours so they make lots of mistakes. Whether it's kovin or just the common cold. Why are they so hard to treat. Kill get rid of well. They definitely between the virus. In bacterium's bacterium has got its own internal metabolism its own biochemistry and so we can design drugs that that damage the bacterial biochemistry. And that's how the antibiotics were discovered viruses use the biochemistry host. So it isn't as easy to get a drug that will stop it like an antibiotic and of course antibiotics. I don't have any effect on viruses just so only relatively recently have we found good. Age was a tremendous stimulus to find drugs. That would stop the virus but the salted drugs. We need to use to stop. Virus are much more complex. And then this the compound who might use to stop a bacterium and the reason why is it got to get get drugs. That either jumbled virus genome or maybe a drug that could in some way prevent the virus latching onto you know the appropriate to a chemical on the surface of ourselves. It's much more complex to make a drug. That'll do that the other thing. We learned 'cause maids as we did from tobacco losses. Which is something. I looked into the past. Is that only when we used say three drugs. Same time did we control it and it's possible that from point of view drug therapy what. We might need with kobe. As least who maybe more drugs to be given to someone at the same time but might stop the virus. A problem is we don't have time. It's moving so fast that we don't have the time when normally could take decades develop new drugs and we don't have that time so i think we're going to have to rely very heavily on vaccination so we're seeing we're seeing the cases new cases of of this virus dropping pretty rapidly. Although i guess it seems like it's plateaued a bit but it has fallen off pretty considerably. Will it go away. well i think again. I can't simply account easily. I'm straight because we've never experienced. Kobe pandemic before i keep. I keep saying this but it's very important not to compare this to flu. It's not flu is completely different virus much more complicated than flu. It's like companion comparing a you know amounts to a camel or something that they're totally different so we have to look at this virus in its own right and so next year it will come back like the fly does as a variation of what it was before. Not necessarily because this isn't the seasonal virus flu-virus likes the temperature in the nose. And he goes respond to passages about three or four degrees below normal body temperature in other words and winter. Cold climates. when you're breathing. Cold air that cools the nasal passages and the sows in as the passengers on. the flu. Bars loves that but this virus doesn't care the temperature doesn't make any difference remember. It came along in the summer. Who was was killing people on the grand scale italy in spain right in the middle of the summer. This virus doesn't care seasonally so it won't be seasonal factors that decide whether this get keeps rotating around around around. I think it'll be other factors. I think the key thing here read it to me. Vaccination because vaccination which creates a barrier to the spread of the virus this herd immunity that people talk about and we need to get hurt immunity as fast as we can to stop it spreading touch wood. I hope that a stop it even another Corona virus broke out with now already. Have some resistance to corona viruses from global vaccination very difficult for another pandemic to arise if this had happened if this virus had shown up a couple hundred years ago before modern medicine would it have had the potential to wipe us out. I don't think so one of the things that is very reassuring for me. Is that if the virus salau spread. We did nothing to tell. It looks as if the mortality rate would be between one and two percent which means that they wouldn't certainly wouldn't wipe out the human species there all viruses that much worse than that. The worst virus in history was actually want. Everybody knows about cold smallpox. I've got a smallpox vaccination scar my own smallpox in the virgin population. In other words the population never experienced it before was lethal to seventy to ninety percent of those affected covert competitor. That well i. I guess i get it now that we need viruses just a few of them that we could really do without. But it's good to get a real understanding of what they are and what they do. Frank ryan has been my guest. He is a virologist physician and evolutionary biologist. His book is called virus. Fear from common colds to ebola epidemics. Why we need the viruses that plague us and you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks frank thanks for coming on. Thank you very much. Don't you just hate it when your computer printer runs out of ink or tells you you're low on ink and then you've got to spend all that money for new in cartridges. Well here's some advice if you're document setting uses the aerial font as the default for printed documents which many do you're wasting ink and therefore money century gothic uses about thirty percent less ink when printed and of course the smaller the font the less ink and paper you'll use. There are some other tricks to saving cartridge inc in your preferences. Choose the draft option instead of normal or best. And if you use the print in gray scale option you'll save big on those pricey color cartridges and that is something you should know this. Is that point in the podcast. Where i ask you to tell someone you know about this podcast. And i wouldn't ask if it didn't mean a lot so please tell someone you know about this. Podcast share the link with them and let them hear it and well then the two of you will have plenty of things to talk about. I'm mike carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something. You should know you've heard rich is on the radio and seen him on. Tv now he has a new podcast called just getting started. Tell us about your new show for getting ahead. Rich with guests from the world of news business sports and entertainment minute show is going to give you their most in-depth firsthand stories that focuses on the humble beginnings and humbling moments that we can relate to in our own lives. The new podcast is called just getting started with me rich. Eisen listen on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your shows.
16: Doing Dopey
"If you've been enjoying last day I've got another podcast. You might like broken justice. Imagine you've been arrested for a crime but you can't afford a lawyer you're court appointed attorney has more than one hundred other cases. She doesn't have time to take your phone calls. Will you get a fair shake in a new five part series the PBS Newshour takes a hard look at public defender system in Missouri one of the lowest funded public defender agencies in the nation. Meet the attorneys and prosecutors struggling to reform a broken system and meet rickie kid. Kansas City man. Who spent his life in prison? He says because of the failures of US public defender. That's broken justice from the PBS Newshour available. Wherever you you get your podcasts? Have you ever had the experience of inviting someone in your house and like fifteen eighteen minutes before they get there you get into a knockdown drag out fight with your husband and your mood and you should probably just cancel but you can't because it's too late and so you try to keep up appearances and make small talk like your life depends on it. I was kind of my experience of going on this. PODCAST has called dopey that hosts where the married couple. I was the house guest in say something before I tell you what it is. You're asphalt astle. Why because you're in this weird place where you want to belittle me because I I had a bladders you I can't remember a fuck in twenty word title? Can you just be cool. Feel aw I don't like it. It makes me feel bad. This is my life. is we have cows reversed course. I didn't know it at the time. It was April twenty eighteen. I was a thousand weeks pregnant with my son airy actually I was due you in two weeks but it felt like a thousand weeks and I was tired and moderately annoyed because it was late and I've been playing the twitter version of phone tag with sky. My name's Dave you'd originally deemed me to say he was and my brothers. Eat bought my book and wanted me to come on his show which she described as a podcast hosted by to who clean heroin addicts who are in recovery. When I didn't respond because I'm terrible at Internet communication? He followed up three days later to tell me that Dobie got forty thousand downloads. A month and those listeners would really love my book smart guy so I wrote him back. I'll be thirty five days later. But WHO's counting. We scheduled an interview since they only record at night. That interview interview was at eight. PM My time nine pm for them and yet here I was at nine thirty eight. PM standing in the kitchen kitchen shoveling key lime pie into my mouth by the fork full. which is what you do when you are tired and one million weeks pregnant And while I was doing that Dave was recording the intro to my episode with his Co host Chris Hello and welcome to Dopey the podcast about drugs addiction and dumb shit. And I'm Dave and I'm Chris. How are you good a sombre episode today talking about big things? We're always talking about big thing but we're always laughing. I mean this is GonNa be a little more serious. Have you ever heard of this guy. Harris Woodall's geeky asking. No Yes Alex. I don't know where that is Harris. Who are calling now? He's dead airs. His sister wrote a book. That's WHO's coming on the shop. Wonderful his sister wrote a book about what it's like to have a brother. There's a comedy bent to. You've told me about about this. Well they call it a tragic comedy book on heroin genius and loss. It's called positive for a second police so the book is called. Everything is horrible and wonderful tragicomic memoir of Genius Heroin Love Lost by Stephanie's Widows Wax. You've I've been reading this book right. Why listen to it even if you listen to it yes how come yet positive look title because I was just thinking tragic house as you? Everything is horrible and wonderful place. Wow isn't that really the way you WanNa go with. This no can do anyways but is it. I just told you you remember what it is. It was the Dan Ryan wire determine who say the name again please. I need to commit lock it. No you feel like I'm in middle school and I'm in a bathroom stall and the mean girls walk in and I overhear them talking about me behind my back. And it's really Hickey. Achey and then you layer my dad brother on top of it and how flippantly they're talking about him and then they they call me on speaker. Hello Stephanie. How are you tired? I'm I had no idea that the interview was actually starting. I had no idea that David Chris and tearing each other other apart only moments before and I didn't know that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes during that call but a few weeks ago. Dave told me all about it when we jumped on the phone. Chris was fucking very very funny weird character and Chris even when he was sober he didn't like to have interviews on Dobie he liked opie to just be him and I and I really think that when you came on the show he was in his his relapse and he didn't like people who weren't addicts to be on the shop like he didn't WanNa hear about it but when people would come on that weren't addicts and they'd be on the phone he would like give me these death looks like and then it would turn from. Death looks to notes and he would start passing me notes that would say. When are they going to start talking about drugs when you are on? I think you activated that guilt place in his mind cause he has he has a sister Mr you know he has people that he answers to. And KRISTA sister actually works in the treatment. Industry and Chris's sister actually was drug testing him randomly dimly in occasionally so I bet you being on the show had some sort of like deep resonating reaction in him and he I mean I I I remember. He wasn't interested and he was faded. But he did that. All the time. When we had somebody on the phone Two months after my episode aired crests died. I've ever heard I'm Stephanie. What else wax S is lasting? I do this podcast. It's called Dopey we had the PG name which is dopey on the dark comedy of drug addiction and then the more PG thirteen R. rated name which is dopey on drugs addiction and dumb shit and basically what it is is a talk show through the lens of a drug addict. And I am and drug addict so it's so interesting because whenever we have like experts on the show they always like schools are not supposed to say addict anymore. I think it's interesting. People have a lot of weird hangups in the world of addiction. And I like to say I'm an addict because I am an addict and and I go to twelve step meetings and identify as an addict and I am a terrible using drug addict and I feel like to erase that piece. It doesn't make sense to me. All of the words though like are kind of over my head like disease addict former drug users. Whatever do do what is the some kind of like there's some opioid use disorder substance use disorder? Exactly that shit is over my head. because I don't think it helps. It doesn't help me. What helps me is to know that I'm an addict I'm in recovery in my life is so much better than it was when I was using to get metaphorical Dave and I are two podcasters? Who Live in the same neighborhood? But on opposite sides of the fence our show is super scripted. Did Davis's fly by your pants. Are Show tends to lean heavy. Dave likes to keep it light using terminology. I'm the family member of an addict. Dave is an addict. I grew up in a super kind of normal middle class. Jewish apartment in Manhattan. Both of my parents were teachers. I didn't do drugs until I was seventeen. I drank one time and I blacked out and I realized I couldn't handle drinking but I learned to love pot and then I became a musician and I love Getting high and was in a bunch of bands hands and then I started taking acid. And you know. I just kind of escalated the way addicts escalate and I wound up doing more drugs but totally sort recreationally and not like every day. I smoked pot every day. It wasn't until my career took off a little bit that I thought I could afford being a drug addict and I I started producing TV and when I started producing TV and hosting TV I developed a daily heroin habit which escalated to a pill habit which escalated to me losing my job and finding myself in detox and then at that point like I had kind of committed to heroin and it was very very hard to ever get away from it. I used heroin for from like twenty four till thirty six and then I stayed on other drugs until I was forty one and now I'm forty forty five so that's the cliff notes of drug use Dave Mack Kristen Rehab back in two thousand eleven and when I met him he was always very preppy. A Catholic kid from Boston from money. Who who kind of lived in and out of these programs for long periods he was incredibly Lee Smart? He was incredibly handsome. And after we got out of treatment we both mound up relapsing a number of times and he had a couple of years clean and and I had a couple of weeks clean and he was like I would love to do something creative with you so I was like. Why don't we do a podcast about drug stories? And I had a hunch that any podcast around addiction was around recovery and any podcast around recovery was going to be proselytizing and boring thing and progressive and like lame and I love the Howard stern show and I loved. I loved already laying on the Howard Stern show and I love hearing his stories stories and I also love hearing everybody's stories in Rehab Detox and a and a and whatever and I said to Chris why don't we do a show. Ah That is about drug addiction. But it's just the war stories because if you go to a rehab or you go to Aa they say they don't WanNa hear war stories. And I said so. Our podcast is is only going to be the war stories and it's going to be so only the war stories that we're going to call it war stories. That was our plan and it wasn't until Oh we recorded the first episode that I knew that we had to say. Oh by the way we're in recovery because if we didn't say it would have been this ridiculous Louis Glorification of drug use and I didn't even really I didn't want it to be a recovery. PODCAST it took. It took a long time to get it to be a recovery. podcast asked and it just sort of became like the sort of. I don't know I want to call it. Almost a moral obligation and it was based on the fact that my life was better only because I was in recovery so because of that and because the stories were so far out and because our lives were so negatively impacted because of our drug use it by default became a recovery podcast if that makes sense when he and Chris drew up they're very loose plans for dopey their default recovery podcast. Dave never expected that it would become this big deal thing with tens of thousands of loyal listeners. He also didn't expect to get so close was to Chris in the process Christian. I like we were not particularly close friends. We had an amazing bond when we started doing dopey but it was in dopey every week that we became these very very close friends. And that's one of the coolest things about dopey. If not the coolest thing thing is that it documented me and Chris becoming these amazing friends. I don't feel like people who who don't put out a weekly podcast understand understand. It's like the most intense kind of marriage. I mean you are in it together. I've worked with so many people on so many projects. It's like something I've always his love to do is make things and Chris was an amazing partner on dopey which I didn't expect. He just think he saw how driven I was. And he totally met me. And then the other thing was because we were addicts we like totally got addicted to dope and we totally got obsessed with Dobie and he would always say we used to use doping now we do dopey and and we also like it was. It was Super Fun we would get high from it. People loved it. People reached out to us. He you felt like his intelligence mattered to people and it was true. People love Chris. It was like a recovery love story. It was the kind of thing you'd WanNa option for movie script. It was like the trajectory of both of our lives was just. You couldn't have asked for a better kind of story of recovery than Chris as we did the Xiao. I reconnected with my daughter's mother and move back into the House with my daughter and her mother and Chris started a master's program to become a psychologist and he moved to Boston enrolled in William James University and completed his master's on his way to his side D in psychology. And he had this very very beautiful girlfriend who was a medical a student at Harvard and he was working in a sober living and he was interning. I think in a school working with adolescence on substance abuse stuff and I wound up getting promoted at my job and we bought a house and we had another baby and Dopey was really cruising when Chris mound up relapsing. It's easy to assume that relapses are triggered by hard times logically. It's like watch. Watch out for things that make you a therapy have a support system but the truth has relapses also happen when things are really good I will never forget that when I got Harris's laptop back from like the cops or whoever he had a tab open on the laptop for the airbnb in New York in Manhattan that he had just booked because he was going to be moving there in a week to go. Start shooting master master of none because he was like a starring fucking role in this series. He was GONNA be yeah. He was going to be Eric Warehouse character and like he he was in such a good place. I just feel like there's this relationship between when you're like soaring and you're sailing and everything is going great and there's all this joy and relapse that I don't hear talked about tons it's talked about like among addicts. That's talked about what it is is. It's like as a drug addict when things are bad. You WanNa get out of yourself you know you wanna feel better and when things are good you want to celebrate and the other thing is that like you just addicts have a hard time sitting with themselves and I think Chris had so much she coming true for himself that and he was he was ten years younger than me. And I had this feeling like when I had gotten my producer job I did the same thing every time I and got a job I would relapse every time something better. I would relapse because you think that because things are going so well. Wouldn't it be better if you could get high to. I think you have the promises of twelve step coming true for you and you're like why can't I have. Why can't I get high to? Why can't that be part of the promises? ooh For any non people myself included. The twelve promises are part of the ninth step when the addict has to make direct amends to all the people they've wronged when they were using it's one of the hardest and most uncomfortable steps to complete. The promises are essentially offered as the why why you should do it anyway. Way include amazement serenity freedom and relief all good things but by this point Dave Dave and Chris were on different tracks. Dave was holding on to the promises of recovery and Chris was holding onto his belief that he was and I think. That's what happened with Chris. I don't know this for sure but I don't think he thought his death was even a possibility. Yeah that that makes so much fucking sense to me like six. Oh much sense well. I always thought that I mean like Harris was mega successful and like lauded audited by society. Chris wasn't but I do see a ton of parallels between them. Yeah when you talk about him it's like I mean I keep thinking about Harris when you talk about Chris the other striking similarity between Harris and Chris was just how extreme they could be how they both seem onto lack. That part of the brain tells other people to pump the brakes. T- did crazy stuff like the first episode of Dopey. He told a story about while in the blackout. He decided he wanted to get drugs so he went to a veterinarian clinic to get xanax this was his drunk brain thinking he wound up getting denied and he roughed up the the staff at the veterinarian clinic and he wound up getting arrested but he bounded assaulting a police officer assaulting a nurse like going fucking ballistic and all in the blackout and he wound up having to do a year ear and Jalen in California all my God mike he also like he he he went to sixteen rehabs and he would like master the system in the Rehab like he would learn how to make wine in the APP or get drugs from from the staff by manipulating them. He was one of his stories. Were insane and I don't like to say as somebody who is the worst drug addict I ever met. But he was up there he had crazy crazy stories. And then the thing about him. He was so handsome and so- disarming and so smart that when you met him you could not connect the two personalities that was the thing the details are different. But this is exactly Komo how I always felt trying to sync up Harris's charm with his insanely destructive behavior. It's funny to think that Dave and Chris almost called their show war stories. Because that's sort of how I felt going back and forth trading stories with Dave about these two intense maniacs who we loved when we come back more tales from the battlefield. Twenty twenty is the perfect time to start thinking about twenty forty with Robin Hood. You can invest in the markets and earn interest with a competitive. API uninvested cash. They make it easy to get started and learn as you grow with an intuitive. She would've APP experience and know commission fees on trades and stock prices. Don't have to hold you back. You can buy a piece of a company you love for as low as one dollar and build your portfolio Eleo a little bit at a time buy one share by half share three and a quarter shares. 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The trailer is out now. So check it out today today. Subscribe to mouthpiece with Michael and Pele Bennett wherever you listen to podcasts. That's M. O.. U. T. H. P. E. A. C. E. P. Sign. The had another friend meantime friend he'd had since he was a kid his best his friend and todd was a recurring guest on the show. Before before before you even answer admitted to the dopey nation that the last time you were Rondo be your high on heroin. My of course fucking fucking four year. We're in the top man truth. All the only person who was allowed on the show I to be high because I knew he wasn't getting sober and I always dopey was kind of like created with with my friend todd in mind but todd didn't get clean. I actually bought a a mixture that had multiple Mike so that todd could one day get clean and be on the show. But that didn't happen. It didn't happen because a few weeks before Chris died. Todd died so once todd died the show changed and it was this weird thing that happened at the same time were todd died and Chris was using so all of a sudden like Chris was like regressing to this place with the show where he just wanted to tell the most bombastic stories about like faking urine tests and this and that and I was just like I wasn't having it just wasn't entertaining me and he was and I was like dude. We can't we can't do it like that anymore because todd just died and it's not that funny when your best friend is dies. That's not the funny part. It's like the funny part is like the situations you find yourself being in and now you're not in in those situations anymore but there's this ability to see how stupid you were and how lucky you are and how funny it is. I mean for Chris and I. Chris was from a wealthy home from middle class home and we knew everything that we did. How wrong it was to our families which kind of made it cosmetically funny like? You know how your Jewish mother is going to react to these things and somehow because it's you it's the dark comedy of drug addiction fiction. After todd died the tenor of the show had to change. And that didn't mean it couldn't be funny. You just had to have respect for for the consequences. This is right around the time that I appeared on the show. Dave was starting to take things more seriously and that seemed to make Chris WanNa push buttons even more and it didn't feel good. You can hear that in the tape and I remember listening to an episode of job that Dave recorded right after Kris died and really appreciating that he told the truth about that Even know if you were aware of it but you were like he became way more of a Dick he was agitated. He wasn't interested in things. Oh man what's so incredible about that moment is that you are telling the truth about him. In this way that I feel like if you take too much each time after you want to memorialize them as like deity. Because they're not here and you want to be like no. He was the the best and like yeah he was the best but also he was a dick pic totally. He was also just what happens to anybody who's using using we all become Dick's if we're using I just didn't realize he was using. You know which is like so annoying. I know that when I was using I was the biggest you stick in the world. I was addict to my family. I was addicted my partner. My friends I I didn't show up at work I would steal. I would lie. I lied just to live have I. I barely told the truth and I didn't. I didn't really detect when Chris started slipping like I just didn't detect it and then after are he died. I could put it together pretty easily but now that it's been a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if he had relapsed other times too. You know what I you mean like who I mean it. It puts this whole horrible doubt on our friends and our family who are in recovery. It puts this horrible doubt on our on the people that we love because and I I can say it for me like my father. I was years clean. My father would be like. Why do your eyes look funny and I'd be like I don't know dad? I'm tired but like it's because we didn't earn we don't earn the pass every time with him. His friend called me Months months before he died. I WANNA say two months before he died and said Chris is acting funny he was on the phone with his sponsor and he thought it was you. Could you give him a call and my best friend had just died that week so I was like I was bugged out. I thought Chris Chris was going to die when the guy told me that and I texted. Chris and Chris Literally would respond to every text I ever sent him within like ten minutes. Even if you is asleep would be asleep. He'd get my tax than he would text me back and that day he didn't text me back for like a few hours and then he did. Text me back. And we wound up talking about it. And he did what addicts do and he lied and manipulated it and he liked tried to tell me about this problem. He was having when in actuality the relapse had begun and and after that it was just little flashes here and there he wouldn't show up he would be disinterested he would be argumentative and I'm sure anybody who has an addict in their life has experienced that with somebody they love or they count on when the person is using using they. They can't be relied on and I still even though that happened. And he swore to me up and down that he wasn't using. I didn't think about it again. Like I feel l. very naive about that because he was such a drug addict. But Chris and I had never dealt with each other when we were using only in recovery. So I didn't even consider it. It's it's weird to think that Dave with all has experienced using lying hiding manipulating hosting a podcast about drugs and recovery. Sorry didn't even consider. The fact that Chris might have relapsed. Even when all signs pointed to the obvious Dave just told himself. That Chrisat sat other stuff going on. Chris was doing a sober companion job in Texas and every week we would put out an episode. I think on Saturday Saturday morning and and he would usually wrap up the episode Friday night and he had come home on a Thursday and he was just not not himself. He was very very like bickering and petty and he kept pushing off the recording and saying it was because he was fighting with his girlfriend. I I just felt like he had been in this fight and he hadn't slept. I feel like such like Like my mom like my mom believing me which is just very frustrating. Even retell the story but we were doing the show on skype. And if you listen to it now. It's so obvious that he was high but we did wind up fighting fighting in on that episode. I said I said Dude. What's wrong with you just thinking that he was exhausted? And then he when he put out the episode so I think he put it out with like they're like twenty minutes of space he didn't put the music on it like it was totally not good but at this point clean. Dave couldn't really produce an episode without Chris. And that was the other thing is that Chris did all the technical stuff with dopey and he also didn't know anything about the technical all stuff he had just put it upon himself to do it and now here he was totally impaired incapable of doing it and you can hear it on the show and listeners have have written me you know countless times saying how could you not know you know and I. I even took pictures of him through the screen because he looked so. Oh deranged but still like. There was denial in my head. You know denials real when you believe something to be not the way it is you really. I believe it. I did not have a shadow of a doubt in my mind that he was in recovery when he was totally using. You know my my friend. Todd had He had never stop using and he overdosed and died. And it didn't it. It was devastating to me. 'cause he was my friend and he was an addict that I used with more than anybody like I used with him constantly. Chris was somebody who I had talked recovery with more than anybody I've ever met. And when when he actually did die and he was gone the thought of using never came into my head. My recovery was almost bolstered by his death because it became so obvious like what a reality death could be from using so I I. I think that I didn't think he could use. Because you know I'm not I'm not trying to blow my own recovery out of proportion and say it's ironclad in class or whatever I just knew in that period of my life using was not going to happen like I was not near using and I'm not near using now like it's it's like it's not like I'm not going to do drugs to that. I know that and I didn't have the feeling that I was going to do drugs that day I felt like I I think the reverse of it is more true that because my resolve in my recovery was so strong. I totally believed Christmas. I believe that Chris was totally totally on the same page as I was. and that was the self-deception Dave had to hold on to whatever version of reality meant that they could keep doing. dopey ooh by the night. Before Chris died things had gotten really ugly well the night before we had gotten into this gigantic the anti fight because the last episode was so bad it was cataclysmic Lee bad and he was using an angry at me and I was just so angry the at him we got into this fight and I was like you better come to record because the show is dying and and he's he was like well I have to take take my girlfriend to a Taylor swift concert instead and I was just like I thought it was the funniest thing but I also got really angry I was like so you're GonNa go Taylor Swift concert instead of record or dopey and he laughed and then he called me that night and he had a breakdown that he was fighting with Anne his girlfriend and he wasn't sure that they should be together and he had all this pressure on him. He said he was in school because he wanted to make his parents happy. He was in school because because he always wanted those magical letters after his name but in reality all he wanted to do is make dopey which was like very beautiful for him to say to. Because that's all I wanted to do. And maybe he was. He was manipulating me. But I believed it and thank God. We had that conversation because he told me he loved me and he told tell me how much the show meant to him and it was very beautiful. You know and I got off the phone with them very late. It's like midnight and his girlfriend texted me. I'm worried about Chris and I said Okay and she goes. Can you check on him. And I got the tax like two in the morning and I didn't check check on him at two. In the morning I went back to sleep and I forgot about it and I woke up at six twelve. Am and I still have the text on my phone. And I texted him at six twelve. I am and I said. Are you all right. You Know Annie's worried about you and he wrote. I'm okay at six thirteen. He texted me back he wrote. I'm okay I'm I'm alive. I'll tell you about it later. And then at ten in the morning my phone rings and it's Anne and she says I just found Chris and he overdosed and died and the night before Chris was making any sound out to be like lunatic. So I just figured Anne was lying. She said Chris's Dad. He overdosed and I thought she was just being like mean or nasty like it didn't occur to me that it was a possibility And I remember I said any. Don't say that and she said what do you mean. Don't say that I'm sitting with his body and I like freaked out. I was with my whereas with my partner and we had a two month old baby that we were walking into town. We were just leaving the house. I was bringing the stroller down the steps types of our front porch and we were about to walk to town. It was in July early July and and I got off the phone with Anne. The and Linda said to me what happened said Andy Just said Chris and I said to her. I don't believe it and I called Crista sister and she didn't call me back and I called Chris and I called Chris's friends and Chris Friends didn't know anything about it and they were like they kind of had a feeling that he had died. And I WANNA say two hours later. Chris's sister call me back. And she said it was true and it was just like it was it was totally surreal and very painful but it was like surreal because our friendship was based recovery. Our friendship was based on podcast. We were doing about recovery and now he was gone because of addiction was like crazy. So Chris was dead and Dave wasn't as they say the show must go on more on that after the break. I have another podcast. YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO I. I truly love its name. It's called food. We need to talk. I I love that it is a new podcast. That will help you learn how to eat better and feel better about it out now food. We need to talk. Covers every question around healthy eating including what the hell are we supposed to eat. How can I become a fat-burning machine stress and your waistline and food? As an addictive drug new episodes are now available on Mondays. Listening subscribe describe to food. We need to talk on apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay I want to tell you about another podcast. I like. It's it's called family. Ghosts from spoke media in every episode of family ghosts. Someone tells the story of a legendary figure from their families past and then tries to figure out the truth about if that person's life and what impact it's had on them in the present they've investigated grandmothers who were secretly members of international jewel smuggling rings. A great uncle suicide suicide that turns out to have actually been a murder and even help demand track down his grandfather stolen corpse family goes has been celebrated by the Los Angeles Times. NPR and the moth awesome just to name a few family ghosts. The families are real. The ghosts are metaphorical and the truth is always relative. Find the show at Apple. PODCASTS spotify modify wherever you like to listen. We're back if I know anything it's that time. Time doesn't give a shit about grief and sure enough. Three days. After Kris died it was time to record. dopey hello and it's just him. So where does he start What does he say? How does he do? Any of this Without Chris it was a weird thing and I was pretty much on autopilot I knew you that I wasn't going to let the show stop first of all and secondly I didn't want to. It's like nobody knew that he had died. And the audience. This is connected to us and it was connected to him so I knew it had to happen and I knew what I was talking to my partner about it and she was like well. Why don't you just do ten minutes? And just let them know and I thought about that. And then I talked to Chris's girlfriend Anne and I said would you come on the show with me and and tell them what had happened because she found him. I mean if you heard the episode you know it was totally brutal. And she agreed to do it. So I set up in my father's this kitchen and I took out the gear but I only took out the one Mike and and you know the other thing the weird thing is the sort of You know your own self knowledge or your you like I was. I was kind of nervous that I wasn't going to sound sad enough or I wasn't going to sound like how deep it actually was when in reality one of my best friends had just died and I'm trying to fuck in hold it together or whatever and and you know. I can't listen to it. I've listened to a little bit of it. It's just like total stone cold. You know it's like as though the blood has drained I'm from my whole face and body. Here's how he opens the episode. The worst thing that could have ever happened happened and Chris relapsed and died. And here I am alone at my dad's One microphone plugged into the mix makes her with garage band open on my computer recording. dopey which I've never done every time we ever did it. Chris would record recorded on his computer and I would be able to futz around and now this is going to be very weird it. It was a brutal brutal thing and also I think just to not take any time just to do. It was the right thing to do but on the other hand it was just like it was crazy. It was like total free fall. But isn't that sort of like my understanding recovery being a person who's not a recovery but you know has this peripheral knowledge. Is that like you have to keep showing up and doing the stuff and like there's this ritual about you doing the show that seemed like it was so Tight into your own recovery and it seems like it wasn't really an option to stop also on in that sense that true. Well that's the obvious thing thing that I didn't even think of you know what I mean like. That never crossed my mind until a year later. And somebody was just like you showing up for the show. Oh and you doing. The show is really what your recovery is about. And I didn't I didn't make that connection but absolutely the only thing that recovery is is showing up every day and living life on life's terms not you know not getting high not putting into anything into your body and not lying. Not just being who. You're meant to be like that was my favorite phrase in. All of this stuff was to be your truest self your most genuine south off and I found that doing the show. It was a lesson in that and I think the audience really related to that. Even no I didn't get it. I thought I was still pursuing. Dopey I didn't realize I was just showing up. Dave continued to show up for the show and as he did. The tone of the show started to sort of organically shift. After Kris died. I was totally totally out in my mind in grief and I could not the show took a long time to get funny again and when it did get funny I I also I. It got funny any around recovery. I think I also always thought when we were doing the show that there was a lot of room to laugh about a drug addict who tries to live soberly early life. The idea of being in recovery is so strange to somebody who was a total crazy drug addict like it's like this spiritual will primer for somebody who has no spirituality and I think that's ripe for great comedy like I I played dopey for my sponsor and he was like. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard he's like this is Wayne's world and Chris and I love that you know we love that he said it was like Wayne's world because that was the idea it was like we were GonNa talk about everything that had happened like idiots and then also talk about what it is we were and it created. Did this this world of people listening without shame and recognizing themselves in it and then feeling like they could one day a look back at all the dumb shit that they had done and feel empowered that they didn't have to live like that anymore. So here we have one of those people Chris us who was lying and he succumbed to it you know so. It's a very very fragile aesthetic at that point and I think many many many shows were very very very sad and I think to this day. There's a ton of tragic sadness in dopey but but like why shouldn't there be when I changed sponsors my sponsor and moved away and I got a new sponsor and when Chris died and I told the new sponsor that Chris has had died he just said to me. This is him carrying the message. which like I was like? Fuck you this him carrying the message. But it's true we're all dealing with these deadly chemicals and he didn't get to live through it you know and like that's part of the story is another important. Part of any story. Is the inciting incident. The thing that happens that sets everything in motion Harris's death did that for me It changed me in every fucking possible way. Something can change a person to I. Am I think what I do. ooh And I don't see that ever shifting back Dave experienced this too but in a one two punch SORTA way I with tied side and then six weeks later with Chris I was like Holy Shit. Everybody better you know. Get get into recovery and find a path and I think todd literally sniff two bags of dope and drop dead. He sniffed two bags of dope and drop dead. Chris definitely injected fennel and it killed him. you do not have the luxury to think that you're just getting high like an. Everybody talks about this but when Chris died it really really cemented the truth about this that it is is life or death or instead of life or death it's life and death like that tons of our audience are in harm's way all the time and they're also like five five deaths that happened at the same exact time and it was like you know we're in this moment in history where drug addicts are in incredible credible danger because of fennel I mean. Is that now the narrative do you. Do you feel like if I use again. I will die to be honest with Stephanie. Like I don't feel like if I used. I would die even though I would. But that's how deep the fucking denial is in me. I I just feel like I have no interest in using like I love getting i. I knew by the time that I got sober. I was never going to get higher than I had been and now I have two children who if I get high there is no getting high once for me. That's the other thing that I'm very very aware of. I can't get high once. It's not possible like it is impossible for me to even like smoke a joint for me to take a drink for me to take a pill for me to smoke a cigarette if I do any of it. I'm just done and the second. I'm that person. I am incapable of taking care of my family and that's who I am now. That's who I wants to be. I'm not so scared of the dying part. As the not being able to be a good parent I had great parents. I have a great father. I would hate eight to not be able to be that to my daughter's man I wonder if like if Harris had kids. Maybe he wouldn't have died. You know like it's it's like this thing. I always think probably dumb but I don't know I don't think it's dumb. I don't think Chris would have done it if it's like forget consequences identity Danny stuff when you don't have children you kind of our child when you do have children. When you're responsible for these you know I heard you talk about your children? You always say little people you know I'm responsible for these little people and it's up to it's it's my role all to keep them fed. It's my role to set an example and I love it. I love that I have this opportunity to live a different part of my life. Obviously being a parent isn't a cure all for addiction. We've covered that and we'll cover it more. Even I'm dave still struggled with using after his daughter was born. What he's talking about here seems closer to what we heard with Aaron episode fourteen? You can't get sober for someone else but you can define the things that are meaningful to you and build a recovery program around that and I think that's such an amazing part of life that were capable of changing. You know that you don't have to be the person you were yesterday like. I'm such a better person to now than I was when I was using. And it's because I'm not using now it's just that simple. Yeah like you have a thing that you can point to and you can say like this is the root of my change. You know and your thing. So tragic like you'd get to stop using drugs to change. Your brother had head to head to be killed by substance abuse for you to change but still you get to be an advocate now. In a way that you never would've would've been yeah. I mean it's not it's not a worthwhile trade nope it is nowhere near a worthwhile trade part of losing someone is grappling with all the things that you get to experience that they'll never know and and I remember hearing this when Dave talked about todd shortly after he died. You said the amazing thing you said he never gets to be sober. Any never gets to be free and that is just like I don't know it was just really profound to me when I heard you say that like I just I mean I was on Methadone for years for seven years I was on Methadone and And I wasn't free and I think you know I think it is scary the idea of getting clean and then overdosing dosing and dying. But I know that like I did not make any choices when I was using I did not have the ability to like do anything besides get high watch TV eat find ways to get money and get high. It was the only thing I could do. Anything else. Never never entered into the picture and if it did it was just to pass the time until I could get high again so my freedom in my sobriety is just having choices to to enjoy life and in the past the only thing I would try to enjoy was getting high. I mean we talk so much about medication assisted treatment on the show. I mean so much but that's because it's you know it's Statistically more likely that people live longer when they're on medication indicated this the treatment. Yeah I mean you. You are the Unicorn here it seems like your story of like being able to just not use drugs you know and to quit the way that you have is is incredible. I mean it's like what I always hoped for for Harris Ri- In my story though my story isn't like that though it's like I failed a million times like I relapsed like a million times ahead all sorts of conditions on what I was willing to do in order to to get clean. You know you have to give me fifty bucks so I can get high on my way we to detox and treatment. I better be able to smoke and I better be able to smoke like twenty times a day or I'm not going and it's all bullshit because if if you put conditions on this thing you're never gonna get it and that's the other thing that the worst thing about the whole story is there is no way to who make somebody get it. It's like magic. I mean when I got it. My partner had found pills in my house and I tried for years to get back with my partner partner and she knew that I was smoking weed and she didn't know that I was taking pills and she found pills in my house and and we had our daughter in my apartment that day. Hey that's it you don't have custody anymore. This is over and I started writing her. This long letter about you know. Please don't take away begging egging begging her not to take my custody away and simultaneously begging her to let me smoke pot that I should be allowed to smoke pot in the letter and I had this moment moment and it was the closest thing to a white light moment. I've ever had where I just realized I was begging for the wrong thing like how long I'm going to beg to be able to get high. I was like what am I doing sitting alone in my kitchen writing this this this beggar edgar letter to my ex that I just WanNa see my kid and get high and I never was capable of surrender. Everybody talked about surrender all the time and I was never capable of it. I didn't understand it. I didn't get it and in that moment I was like what the fuck am I doing and I threw my hands up and I said I'm going to go to a meeting tomorrow and once I got a day back I just I didn't want to give it up. And then you know some Weirdo auto at the meaning ran up to me and he said I want to take you through the steps and I'll make sure you do quickly which was very attracted to me because I had never dumb steps quickly. I'd never done steps at all. I just thought going to meetings would be enough and doing the steps with this guy and doing ending. That's the the other thing I never went to a and people don't like talking about this stuff publicly and you know I'm almost anonymous so I'm just GonNa do it like I had never gone to A. I've always went to a Because I wasn't a drinker so I just figured I'd go to Na but in the end I was just so fucked and so desperate to get better and I knew that was historically stronger fellowship. So I went to AA and they say in AA rarely have we seen somebody you know. Make make the most of this thing and fail and I guess I had never made the most of them so I did for the first time I was like I gotTa stop bargaining. I gotta just do what. I'm told okay. So Davis referring to a section in the the big book called how it works. I only know this because my producer Jackie told me and she only knows this because her sister is in a and ten year sober my brother other on the other hand never got anything out of AA. He went to the meetings. He collected chips. You literally had a copy of the big book in his backpack when he he died so when I hear people talk about the promises of a a little or not so little part of me shuts down this is the actual will quote the Davis referring to rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly follow our path. Those who do not recover our people who cannot or will not completely give themselves themselves to this simple program usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves these are such unfortunates. It's Oh I hate it like I hear what they're saying but the second we get to unfortunates I'm out and like the word fellowship. I Ju I just can't I mean every single time Jackie has written the word fellowship into a script. It is the first thing that I cut but it is impossible to talk about Dave story without talking about Aa. And so this time instead of fighting it out on Google docs. She sent me an audio file to listen to. It's a clip from her old show voices of recovery and it took place at a conference for young people in a the young people. A or WAIPA are familiar with the concept opt of how it works and they use it actively in their meetings taking some young people liberties with it. They seem took important that way incapable of grasping burnt rigorous honesty. There's a chance to let me tell you about this white light moment. I had listening to this clip. I started in my default Iro position but the minute I heard the sound of that room the call and response the sound of aw fuck me fellowship. In action something clicked Harris would have loved this. He was a joiner. He loved group activities. Summer Camp Improv. I mean fish my God. Is there anything more representative off of the power of fellowship. Then fish and like what people get out of the meetings is what Harris got out of fishes feeling like you belong somewhere feeling like you're with your people stop at Harris hated a he just wanted to keep using drugs rugs. Maybe Harris had experienced this kind of AA. He would be day of the worst thing thing about. The Harris story is that he died. I bargained a billion times and got to live and eventually I gave up the bargaining. He was how old was as Harrison. He died thirty exactly. You know I mean I. I got to to to make the bargains until I was forty one and then I stopped bargaining. You know it's like and so many people get get sober young and I don't understand it. It just wasn't going to happen for me like that. This this is the magic part. Dave's not a Unicorn is moment of clarity is the Unicorn. And it's the thing that no expert we've talked doc to has been able to explain who gets to bargain a little bit longer and who story gets cut short. It's not like Dave did anything. Anything profoundly different than Harris up until the time he was ready to let go and give himself over to recovery. The only difference is that he had something something that Todd Chris Harris and Steffano did not more time to change his mind You next week we talk with Dr Gone. Ah More about the route addiction and spoiler. It's not genetics. Trauma brings pain. The pain is not the same as trauma. Pain becomes traumatic. Were not pain isn't resolved when it doesn't get the support he needs. It isn't metabolize. When we don't learn and grow from it? traumas happens to Thomas what happens inside. His last. I stay is a production of lemonade. Amelia this episode was produced by Jackie. Dans earn our associate. Producer is colgate lend and our assistant producer. Is Claire Jones Jessica. Cordova Kramer is our executive producer. Begins them as our technical director and our music is by Hammas Brown special. Thanks thanks to Westwood One. Our ad sales distribution partner you can find us online at limited media. That's lemonade like L.. The M. O.. N. D. A.. And you can find me at widow Stephanie. If you liked what you heard today tell your family and friends to listen and subscribe rate and review us on apple spotify stitcher or wherever. You get your podcasts. I'm Stephanie what else wax see you next week
Cutting shipping air pollution may cause water pollution, and keeping air clean with lightning
"Welcome to the science podcast for may fourteenth two thousand twenty one. I'm sarah crespi. Each week we feature the most interesting news and research published in science and the sister journals for step staff writer. Eric stock said joins me to talk about possible harms from how the shipping industry is responding to new air pollution regulations instead of pumping health harming chemicals into the air there. Now dumping them into oceans. Next researcher william broun talks about flying into a thunderstorm. And how measurements research flights revealed to surprising amount of here cleaning oxidants created by lightning finally in a sponsored segment director of custom publishing shawn sanders. Hawksworth with researcher. Manfred krause about using humanized mouse models in preclinical research. Last year in twenty twenty new regulations came online that place limits on exhaust from ships burning. Diesel there's concern about some unexpected consequences for the environment staff writer eric. Stock said is here to take us through it. I eric detroit again. Yeah for sure so. These new regulations are focused on compounds that come from burning this really dirty marine diesel fuel. What are the concerning chemicals coming out of the ship engines. That might be bad for people. This marine fuel has a lot more sulfur in it than fuel that we've earned on the land the problem with sulfur as when it gets into the eric creates acid rain. That was one of the problems with burning coal on land and it creates smog soot particles that are really unhealthy to breathe in and this affects us on land. Even though we're talking about ships a lot of shipping happens near land and it's it's the air pollution imports and along coastlines. That is really the concern for human health. The estimate is that by reducing the amount of sulfur in the fuel that tens of thousands of premature deaths every year would be prevented and the limit is basically going from like a certain percentage of sulfur in the fuel to a much lower won the international maritime organization which is this global organisation made up of countries that regulate shipping. They said we're going to require ships to use much less. Sulfur in the fuel going from the previous lemon was three and a half percent of sulphur. Which is vastly more than you'd haven't fuel on land and to take that down to half a percent problem starts with some of these ships Still burning the dirty fuel high sulphur fuel but then scrubbing out the sulfur. Before it's admitted to the air so the rule came with an exemption and the exception is that because they were worried about the amount of air pollution if they installed scrubber these in control devices on the ships to reduce the sulphur coming out of the exhaust than they could continue to use the the dirtier fuel. Okay here's the crux of the problem. If the sulfur is prevented from getting atmosphere through the scrubbing process. There's waste involved in that. Waste is getting dumped into the ocean. It moves the pollution from the air into the water. That's the fundamental concern is that you're not really cleaning up the environment. You're cleaning the air at the expense of putting that pollution into the water. Now is the concern with putting the pollution in the water that it's the same chemicals and the same harm or is it different pollution problem. That's being created yes. It's actually different when you put the sulphur into the water. It's not a problem. See waters very good. At converting the sulfur dioxides into harmless forms of the sulfur. The concern is something else. It's the heavy metals that are in the fuel. It's these hydrocarbons that are carcinogenic. These forms of hydrocarbons called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. They are a problem for marine life. They accumulate in organisms. They get magnified up the food webs. They're already problems with large marine mammals. Getting those from other sources. There's some evidence already that the scrub water wastewater from this process is harmful to marine life. Yes the evidence is growing is limited. There's just a study out. They took scrubber water from a ferry in scandinavia. That was using this closed loop system and the company was really optimistic. This water would be very very clean. They tested it on marine organisms that they collected these called copa pods there little crustacean certain in the size of to fleas the plankton. Vegas eaten by fish larvae. They're all over the atlantic. They're very crucial part of the food web. So they tested the scrubber. Wash water on the copa pods. They were really surprised. How little of it caused harm to these coca pods. You know tiny amounts would stop them from moulting freeze their development basically small amounts would be toxic. I mean it was doubling or tripling what you would expect for the normal mortality in the ocean. That's really of concern. The laws only been in place in effect since twenty twenty or here. We are in twenty twenty. One is a lot of this dumping going on. What are the reasons. I got interested in writing about. This now is just recently. At the end of april there was a report came out the estimated for the first time. How much of this discharge water is likely to be released. They're saying thirty two million tons per year near the great barrier reef. It's a lot in some ports especially where cruise ships are common. They're going to get a lot of this discharge. More and more ships are installing these scrubbers. You know there were a couple hundred five years ago six years ago now. They're more than four thousand that are using these scrubbers. That's a concern because ships a lot of them travel in the same lane. the shame shipping lanes. They end up in the same ports so the volume of this scrubber water. That's coming out of the ships. It seems like it's quite high. Rise we've god megatons. Millions of tons of this discharged water coming out of ships. The big question right is. How bad is the discharge water and that that's hard to know because first of all there's not a lot of studies that have been done on what's in it. We know the kinds of things. The researchers are worried about. How much is in the discharge water coming from each ship. That varies a lot. Depending on what's installed how. The engine is operating all sorts of factors. These estimates around the world of how much water is being discharged from these scrubbers right now. That's kind of indication of the potential size of the problem is an indication of which ports are going to be more impacted. Well and if it's something that the shipping companies continued to expand what if it becomes more and more common as they look at options for how to keep their their sulphur emissions capped. The trend has been exponential. It's growing really fast. Industry says it's gonna taper off because most of the ships have now been installed but even the current number there's concern about that especially in imports in estuaries along coast where the water. It's more confined than in the open ocean. The mantra is the solution to pollution is. Dilution did not know that that's an oldie but a goodie but imports. it's more of an issue in estuaries and confined areas like the baltic with a lot of shipping traffic and goals to increase that shipping traffic. Now that these numbers are available you know is something that i could go back and say no more scrubbers are. Don't discharge these places or only used. These kinds of fuels are more more calls for that. You know the frustration for environmental groups is that it takes a long time to get regulations passed at the i. m. oh because it's all the nations some people i talked to said. They didn't imagine that happening anytime soon. The other approach and this is already happening is that individual ports countries states in the. Us there are already starting to restrict some of these scrubbers They're saying you can't dump your wastewater here. They're saying that you can't discharge the scrubber waste into the ports or the territorial waters. What what other options are there out there eric. Besides you know these scrubbers. the ships can just. I don't know how easy it is to switch the pen of fuel that you use on your boat many of these ships. They have multiple fuel tanks. So what they can do. If they're ceiling across the ocean and all they have to do is use their scrubber to meet the air quality regulations they can burn the dirtier fuel the cheaper fuel when they come into what's called him an emissions control area. Then they've they've started to switch to cleaner fuel that they keep an another tank and they can turn off their scrubber and just burn the more expensive cleaner fuel so they do have some flexibility. There's nothing about mechanical about ship. That says we have to use that dirtiest fuel possible. It's much more cost effective to use the marine diesel. That's right they're more flexible than your car is right. Yeah so you know if they using the dirtiest fuel at room temperature. The stuff has got the consistency of peanut butter. They can burn that they can also burn the cleanest fuel right. Do you think that there's going to be more regulations at least country by country that seems to be the trend. I didn't get a lot of sense of optimism that we were going to get more global limits anytime soon industry says these scrubbers their bridge from the current dirty fossil fuels to fuels of the future. Nobody wants to pollute. Yeah there is a long way to go. If you think about the curve restrictions you think about the existing bands right one estimate is that's reducing. These potential scoreboard discharges by volume a couple of percent molar around the world so and how about the emissions air born emissions. Do we know how much that pollution has been reduced or is supposed to be reduced by the regulations. So i am o. Estimates that they'll be seventy seven percent drop in overall. Sulfur oxides emmy out of ships. That's a good improvement right. I mean i think air quality is improving because of this regulation. The concern is that water quality might be harmed. Thanks so much erik you bet. Sarah always nice to talk with you. Eric stacks debt is a staff news writer for science. You can find a link to the article. We discussed at science mag dot org slash podcast. Stay tuned for my chat with william broun about flying into a thunderstorm to measure oxidant creation by lightning. If you're enjoying the science podcast we've got another podcast. You might like the longest year a miniseries from the pbs newshour. Podcast america interrupted through the voices of people across the country. America interrupted longest year is the story of the challenges uncertainty and loss. we faced one year into the pandemic. And where we go from here available wherever you get your podcast. Now we have william bruin. Hannah's colleagues wrote about the effects of lightning on oxygen levels in the atmosphere in this week's issue of science high bell who let's get some basic data the way what are oxidants. And how could lightning make that. In the atmosphere the primary oxidant in the atmosphere is very small molecule called the hydroxyl radical awake so just an oxygen and hydrogen is produced by essentially splitting water vapor. Splaying hydrogen off of water vapor. And you make. Oh and you make h h goes on to make something else but oh is the primary oxidant of the atmosphere and lightning us lightning to do that. And what exactly do oxidants do in that. Misfire wire why should we care one way or the other. What their levels are so oxidants. In the atmosphere centrally do all atmospheric chemistry. This means if you have emissions from the surface of any chemical of methane for example or or anything. If you didn't have oxygen sensor they just build up to very very high levels probably toxic levels eventually so oxidants essentially start the process by which the atmosphere gets cleansed of all these emissions to come off the surface and they come down as other chemicals that are now water soluble or sticky and they can be rain down or they can just land on the surface and get out of the atmosphere okay. The data used in this study were collected back nine years ago in may and june of twenty twelve during a series of research flights through thunderstorms. Can you tell us about those flights. What was the mission trying to accomplish with this airplane in these thunderstorms this study was cold deep. Convective clouds in chemistry. Study dc. three as as we call it and the whole idea is to look at how air is brought in the lower part of the atmosphere right above earth surface into a thunderstorm going up through the thunderstorm. Where of course there's lightning and there's ice sender's raindrops and whatnot and then deposited at a high altitude out. The top in what the transformation of the chemicals going in going up to the top through lightning and then coming out the top blow the chemicals that are coming out the top and the recent. We're interested in that is because that's where there's some ozone and that's very climate sensitive region of the atmosphere. Is it turns out. So we're very interested in that whole process in how since we thunderstorms are affecting. What's going on at that level. So plane was needed to get a closer look. At this transformation we will take the dc eight aircraft. In addition to the aircraft we head on the ground radars looking at the same storms that we were flying. Through and also think called lightning mapping array with his essentially radio receivers in an array that can pinpoint where the flashes are in the storm that we're flying through. Were you in the airplane. Yes i was often. In fact i was one of the floor principal investigators for this study and so i got essentially lie in the jump seat in the cockpit while my colleagues dr instrument and direct the aircraft. Okay let's pick. This storm must go there. That sort of fantastic study actually very well designed. It's a big airplane to. I looked at pictures of this is actually has been used by nasa since about nineteen eighty six. The us playing they bought. And then they retrofitted to make it a great research laboratory. Actually a flying laboratory basically the pilots or extraordinary. They really know what they're doing. They know how to get the sign stunned but keep the plane safe. No-one one would go into a core of a thunderstorm. Whether these render subtracts and downdraft sins just it's no one would do that. But they can fly as close as they could get to the top of that in the end. Full the impulse essentially the outflow of the storm. That's still in cloud form and they could get as close as possible to that and still be safe for the lightning part here. How can you tell your in an airplane. You're looking at a storm. You can see lightning. There's detectors on the ground that are also tracking it. But how can you say. Lightning is doing this. It's such a short term thing and crosses a large area. How are you able to make a connection between happening and chemistry happening. We saw these really huge spikes and they were just thousand times. We only see and what we were seen outside of the animal and so what we did is we said okay. How does this overlap with what. The lightning mapping ray on the ground is telling us and in fact. There was a lot of coincidence that we could see so he said. Wow this is really really exciting. Looks like it really is lightning but then we went into the laboratory and my graduate student and research associated that i put together this system and we in the lab we would make sparks and lo and behold because he's the same thing and was about the same amount of huge signal so really was the combination of the aircraft measurements of. Oh and essentially the lightning mapping array and then the lab work the three of those things that gives us a pretty solid case. And when you took these measurements on this you said they huge spikes were they much. Larger than people had predicted are had tried to measure before people have known that lightning light bill to do this but no one had really done much work on it. In fact they really never been measured in the atmosphere before this was essentially the first measurement of lightning generated. Oh in the atmosphere and it was a discovery really because no one knew what would be generated everything so we could really quantify what was happening and so it was a totally new and surprising measurement. In one that initially. We didn't believe we thought it was just noise and our instruments and it was much higher than anybody expected. Oh yes oh each thousand times larger than the largest amount of which has been measured than ever are. Lightning flashes that you can see but there's also discharged happening. That's not visible to the i. Is that also important to the generation of which i think is very important and it was. It was really so the surprise and we stumbled on this. We couldn't always match the peaks that we saw in the extreme allege with essentially the lightning mapping array and that got is thinking so in the lab. We could actually do this where we would make a discharge which we would measure by electrical means but we couldn't see it and we couldn't hear it and yet it was making lots and lots of oh age given us fresh data or i should say fresh analysis of older data. What does it mean. For the way we think about oxygen levels in storms or even kind of more broadly at the global level we tried to do a calculation based on two storms when colorado when in oklahoma with the data that we had and we got a very important number in some sense the lightning generated. Oh being anywhere from a few percent maybe of total global age maybe even as much as more than ten percent which really is a pretty significant number. Is those numbers that Tell us this could be very important for global oxidation for talk about the weather and storm frequency. We can't talk about climate change. You know if that changes a lot what would it mean that storms contribute so much. Oxidant that there's been number of studies that have shown that in climate change. Was you warm. you're going to have more lightning. That's in discussions. Still as far as i can tell but the point is if lightning amount changes. That means you're going to change the amount of lightning generated. Oh and so. That means you have to know what its current. Braxton is which is really highly uncertain because it increases has gonna change essentially the removal methane which greenhouse gases from the atmosphere because all h in the atmosphere is the main way back. Probably the only way. Almost the only way that methane gets out of the atmosphere is essentially a big control on really a very important greenhouse gas. So if you wanna project into the future you need to know something about lightning generated a late. So you know what's going to happen in the future was missing. Well how can we tap al. Not uncertainty said. Get to plan another series of flights. What would you do to make this number more. Certain what we didn't have in the convective clouds in chemistry experiment. We didn't have anything that was measuring anything about the electric fields. Or anything in the envel- so we don't really know from the fleiss. What the connection was directly in a very quantitative way and cause and effect way between the extreme. Oh and essentially electric fields in all those sort of things happening in the envelope. And the in. What the discharge for like so clearly. We need to have flights that we have both of those on there where we have measurements of electric fields and discharges little tiny very weak discharges that we just can't measure from the ground at the same time we need to go where most of the storms are which is in the tropics very different than the tropics at latitude. What we call high plains sort of storms are very different from those. The ones that are in the tropics in the lightning is different in them so until we go to where seventy percent or whatever. The lightning is in measure. Some of them like in florida for example. We really don't know what they do right. We have no idea how much is owned by them. We've touched on ozone a little so far. How is this related to lightning many people who have been around lightning they say oh i smelled ozone strike and so in fact we know very well. The ozone is produced by lightning. There have been laboratory. Studies have shown that s one of the interesting things from the point of view of atmospheric. Chemistry is that the ozone and the oh and other things that are produced by lightning or producing the same part of the lightning is really a very complex sort of chemistry picture. In terms of separation of different chemical production and Is something that we really would like to know. More about all right. Well thank you so much pow. William bruin is a professor of meteorology and atmospheric science at pennsylvania state university. You can find a link to the paper we discussed at science mag dot org slash podcast up next. We have a custom segment sponsored by the jackson laboratory in which custom publishing director shawn sanders. Chess with researcher. Manfred krause about using humanized mouse models in preclinical research over one and welcome to this custom sponsored interview from the signs triple custom publishing office brought to you by the jackson laboratory. I'm shawn santa's director and senior editor for custom publishing science and today i'm excited to interview to manfred krause senior director. And head of in vivo. Pharmacology oncology at bristol myers squibb in san francisco california. He has extensive experience in developing advanced genetically engineered mouse models to support biomarker development with the aim of improving patient and responded stratification for targeted oncology therapeutics. In addition he has been research project lead on multiple. China's epa genetic and immune oncology programs manfred. Thank you so much for joining me today and welcome thanks to manfred. You work primarily in preclinical research. Could you describe some of the changes that you've seen in this area in the past five years. Sure yet because you need to test the clinically developed effective in courtney's safe combination approaches of drugs. Monday new system with drugs that primarily targets kansas sell intrinsic Need to also overcome resistance mechanisms to understand how trucks mystically function and impedance Laughter look really at a more holistic approach and complex challenges unfortunately don't technical advances such as crisper line that it always to more quickly generally with relevant genetically modified satellites and also complex small smuggles to communicate tests model hypotheses in addition advances in single celled such a single cell any medium. Power us to study in new. Ed cancer cell subsets then elucidate drug exposure requirements to initiate and maintain public with an chris. Boss your opinion in what ways have humanized. Mice models had an impact on preclinical research. Well filed most fundamental biological mechanisms are conserved between malls in human the better. We understand us. Subsets identified boy more differences between the malls in humans Humanized small mouse models with a partial hyun. Immune system can complement preclinical evaluation. Package importantly they provide the opportunity to test a screen a real clinical candidate instead of a mouth. Surrogate molecules in an in vivo setting so humanized models allows to test new mechanistic questions in combination with approved human drugs and or resemble standard of care in an mvp setting so thus it can also help us to predict and ultimate dan avoid toxicity instrument patients and for example select to our best entities. Such as what is the optimal. Fc agents were How humanized mouse models generated and while they superior to non humanized models noah research Humorless malls long set are humanized for the new system because they carry human cells within a myriad host recipient. Mouse strains are deficient completely lack multi new system. They admire the hyun immune cells isolated from human blood can be directly injected into these mice and also maintained because they are not rejected by the union. Use an alternative approach to generate in. You humanized mice. The interpretation of human stem cells into these immune deficient ads. Eastep cells will then give rise to various human predic- images that populate the mice in select humanize models the functional development of specific can be enhanced. Further by the expansion of human side counts another type of humanization is for example genetic replacement. Or what if occasion of the mouse with a human gene to overcome differences in protein conservation between human loss. And of course these approach can also be combined within a humanized mob. Humanize models are generally superior in that they allow us to be better study human cells and they translate them develop treatments that help human patients and not only working mice. That's all ultimate goal. Given what you know now if you look back to when you started using humanized mouse models in your work. What you wish you would have known. Then yeah. I like to describe humanized mouse models as partially is so therefore it's Definitely good to have a healthy critical mindset on. I think quietly decided interpret. Study was humanized mice since the model will have substantial differences limitations compared to full human immune system thing. Now i consider. Pk pd studies focusing one. That can this. The standing best suited for his partially hume less mice than next generation humanized mice will be powerful tools to address the biology of selecting yoon subsets. However maybe pretty challenging to combine all benefits from these individual next generation models into one sigma model. So therefore the selection of the right model customized for your question is really key manfred. What are the best resources that you found to help with your research. Now think the discussion and close review of the current and potential next generation utilized models has been important and contract research organizations experts. There's such as jackson labs to connect and will generally has been proven useful to evaluate and get some idea background information on these models. I think you also important as they provide the tree office shelf stem cell humanized. Mice navidi flakes. Fairmont's that means you don't really need to have the infrastructure of humanizing mice at your institution. Also they can generate humanized most models for specific genes and your discovered projects and then of course publications about humanized mouse models academic lapse in institutions is extremely both. Are there any comments that you've come across about utilizing humanized mass in preclinical research. That you've heard and you might like to debunk. the extensively. constituted lies some colleagues have initially tested them. With lot of enthusiasm for example in tacoma efficacy in the context of human sina graft or px ends then. Some of the lack of efficacy was variability of responses challenge to produce responses with different humanized. Since you will always than have new donors for the stem cells and or the lack off identifying your favourite specific immune cells upset quickly to a general rejection than off humanized models and seeing them as irrelevant of unproductive and mount. Translating to however immortals are clearly partially humanized. Then of course they have substantial challenges. Such nhc mismatch. It is however i think. Important funds to further characterized develop next generation of humanized models to better understand on the one hand limitations but also to see evaluate opportunities that these models provide us and that meant for the last question. I have for you. What are some of the major advances or changes that you predict might happen in the field of pre clinical research and particularly humanized mouse research. In the next five years young confident that the development of the application of next generation humanized model spill progress will quickly progressed so with this scientists will have the option to choose models support the development and function of immune. Subsets that may be of interest specific target what truck and then the humanization of receptors Against also further enabled us to use human drugs in preclinical testing environment especially for bio therapeutics humanized models can also assist us in toxicity assessments determining a safe while not too low of a starting does in clinical trials that we're not too far away from providing patients with the chance of an efficacious druk unilterally trinity toss manfred. Thank you so much for making the time to talk with me today. It really has been a pleasure and the best of luck with your research has been a real pleasure. Thanks to the jackson laboratory for making this conversation possible end to the signs podcast audience for your interest and attention until next time and that concludes this edition of the science. Podcast if you have any comments or suggestions for the show right to us at signs podcast at. As dot org you can listen to the show on the science website at science mag dot org slash podcast on the site. You'll find links with the research and news discussed in the episode. And of course you can subscribe there or anywhere. Get your podcasts. The show was edited and produced by sarah crespi with production help from podgy. Meghan cantwell and joel goldberg transcripts. Her by scrubby and jeffrey cook composed the music. behalf of science magazine publisher aaa s. Thanks for joining us.
CRE News Hour 10/11/2019: Energy Consumption, LED Lights, and Millennial Multifamily in Suburban Philly
"From the business desk at St Broadcast News this is the sea arena news hour. I'm Steve Lubeck. It's Friday October eleventh two thousand nineteen in this episode of the Sierra Newshour fully equipped studio in Cherry Hill visit being the media dot Com for more information now let's take a look at some of the stories that are moving Sierra markets across the country cap on carbon emissions from the power sector Pennsylvania's the third largest source of greenhouse gas emissions of all the states Mandy Warner with the environmental the business of PODCASTING DOT com. Today you can't wait for the media to cover your earn your podcasting passion into profits the book the business of podcasting describes the business side of podcasting including how to become a pre Pennsylvania's taking a major step forward in its efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions defense fund says the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative has a proven track record of bringing those emissions under control combine have reduced carbon pollution from the power sector carbon dioxide the extreme weather will only get more extreme wolf signed an executive order directing the Department of Environmental Protection to develop a rule to put Danny you have to be the media take advantage of the power of audio and video it's the best way to showcase your expertise to prospective customers let the you bet can media companies handled the technical side we're award winning audio and video producers we can help you produce podcasts and video programs remotely or in our podcast player and share some information that will help us get to know our audience better we'd also appreciate your considering financial support for the Sierra News Hour by visiting our thanks for joining us on the C. R. E. News Hour we just like to make note of a new option on the show page for this episode you can Click on the purple take the survey button right below it building energy consumption for clients and a chat with Scott King CEO of route lighting about the advantages of led lighting in industrial property and hi or Reggie at a Thursday morning news conference the governor noted that climate change made twenty eighteen the state's wettest year on record and scientists predict the average temple our patron link and becoming a show supporter you can also leave a tip in the tip jar by clicking the blue quid button right in the middle of the podcast episode page look at suburban multifamily development attracting millennials in the Philadelphia suburbs with Brandon Segal from L. Core we'll be back with the top crn over forty five percent in roughly the past decades she says those states are anticipating another thirty percent reduction in carbon emissions in the next ten years the initiatives national podcast you'll learn about position your clients expertise who podcasting to plus the best business models how to find clients and much more visit Governor Tom Wolfe has set the wheels in motion for the keystone state to join nine other states in the regional greenhouse gas initiative commonly referred to as Rg g feature will rise more than five degrees Fahrenheit by twenty fifty we know what's causing this climate crisis and we know that if we don't get control over the emission of greenhouse gases officials environmental groups and scientists gathered in Montrose New York Thursday for a regional forum on decommissioning nuclear power plants including Indian a new automotive jobs over five years the deal raises the minimum wage and creates and protects manufacturing jobs by offering companies incentives for engineer and if you're going to be near Summit New Jersey on October thirtieth stop by the Summit Free Public Library at seven o'clock I'll be giving a presentation on podcasting the governor estimates it will take about two years for the Commonwealth to formulate an implement the rules necessary to be part of the initiative congressional leaders are still trying to hammer out a new hey would replace the nineteen ninety four agreement known as NAFTA Ford Motor Company's president of Automotive Joe Henrik's says the trade deals especially crucial for the autumn American made vehicles each year it's estimated that the US MCA will result in thirty four billion dollars in new investments for the auto industry and could create seventy six thousand point in New York and Oyster Creek in Ocean County the forum is addressing an audience of federal state and local officials and citizens about the public safety concerns already ratified the agreement the US Chamber of Commerce's calling for lawmakers to approve the deal by the end of November with hopes that Canada will ratify it around the same time elected trade agreement with Canada and Mexico and there's a lot on the line for workers in the US the United States Mexico Canada agreement or US MC earning money left over from the decommissioning funds into profit the forum included safety experts watchdog groups and officials from cities where nuclear plants have been decommissioned and the workforce have evolved in the twenty five years since Nafta let's get this plan let's get it approved we can run our business plan for the future and continue to invest in America Mexico's on the decommissioning process according to manage oh green with the Hudson River Sloop clearwater one major concern is that the private companies being considered for the work sets annual caps on carbon emissions auctions pollution credits to the power industry according to Warner though sales of returned some two point eight billion dollars to the register and the workers and families who depend on a strong for in this country Henrik's also believes the agreement will modernize policies to match the ways that auto manufacturing supply chains bumpy and unsuitable roads or rail or barge whole took international the company acquiring the Indian point and Waster Creek licenses says broadcast news DOT COM website according to newmark Knight Frank's Third Quarter Twenty nineteen industrial trends report the Metro Detroit industrial construction activity being in production in the US Henrik says that's good news for auto workers boy support the US MCA because it's good for the US auto industry our suppliers that fuel our success news stories right after these messages and providing the best available information seems like the best action should take to ensure that the form is being recorded and we'll put a link on the state of an Acre Pontiac Silverdome site into a three million square foot distribution site meanwhile as regulations for legalized marijuana are drafted and local Munis want to transport the waste to interim storage sites in Texas and New Mexico would be bringing this highly radioactive waste through communities by potentially Oh hot and radioactive it needs to cool off in pools for five to seven years after its removed from the reactors at creek they're saying they're going to complete the process including Mt it's since two thousand nine hundred eighteen a lot of consumer benefit from programs like energy efficiency deployment at the same time that you're getting there's really the corporate emission reductions we know that raising the issues now gives regulators and legislators the information they need to protect the public printing public health and safety furnished is our goal and million square feet with new completions at around one point five million square feet built to suits make up the bulk of new construction for companies like Subaru Cooper Standard Sale means decommissioning will be completed decades sooner than if energy the owner of the plants continued to own them green points out that both Indian point and Waster Creek US fuel that is polities approved laws regarding the growth and distribution of marijuana developers are building new inventory to accommodate the cannabis industry Metro Detroit's industrial we need to grow in the third quarter despite the market battling tariffs and the looming General Motors auto workers strikes seven new construction projects broker structure on a new one point six billion dollar production facility at the MAC engine complex and Amazon is currently planning to redevelop the former one hundred twenty of New York Retail Shopping Plaza there is a four point three million dollar loan with mutual of Omaha for an industrial warehouse in Secaucus New Jersey six point five million industry which depends on the free flow of trade between the three countries so for our workforce where one of the six vehicles produced the United States are exported outside the US having a companion down during the third quarter totaling one point six million square feet that's thirty four percent higher than the previous quarter year to date new construction starts total five point one he's through symmetric Financial Corp for twelve property single tenant industrial and retail portfolio across eight states Tennessee North Carolina Pennsylvania Florida ever large blocks space editions resulting in negative absorption of over two million square feet new jersey-based Monmouth Real Estate Investment Corp announced the acquisition same period last year the average asking rent in Manhattan notched another record high rising two percent quarter over quarter to eighty one dollars and fifty two apparatus to Berina group and sap transmission the projects continue the trend of major investments in Metro Detroit earlier in the year Fiat Chrysler began the US MCA agreement ratified certified we can plan the business is very important to our manufacturing footprint and to our employees exports three hundred eighty thousand Kinsey rate held steady at four point one percent during the third quarter as net absorption total just over four hundred and four thousand square feet gs Wilcox and company says it's four percent above the five year quarterly average in addition Manhattan year to date leasing activity total twenty two point two million square feet that's about one percent higher than the portfolio of one hundred fifteen properties twenty two point nine million rentable square feet and it's geographically diversified over thirty states finney may's home per level in twenty years midtown average asking rents rose to an all time high of eighty nine dollars and forty five cents a square foot despite below average leasing activity is to Amazon the building is situated on approximately seventy eight point six acres monmouth real estate is a fully integrated and self managed real estate company with the proper million dollars in financing through thrive it for another single tenant industrial building in South Brunswick New Jersey and finally loan totalling almost thirteen million dollars was arraigned recently secured almost sixty seven million dollars in financing across several states the first loan was for thirty one million dollars through thrive in financial for a laker cents per square foot midtown south had the highest quarterly leasing activity total on record at two point five eight million square feet and downtown year to date leasing is at its highest broadcast news dot com for industrial developers lighting costs can be as significant proportion of aced month over month including eight percentage point drop in the net confident about not losing jobs component and seven percent drop in the net home prices will focuses on led retrofits for industrial properties as well as new construction applications there are significant advantages to led lighting the the expense involved in building a new industrial facility. Brute lighting is an energy services company that provides turnkey energy saving services go up component these were partially offset by increases in the good time to buy and good time to sell components at three and four percentage points on net respectively institutional nineteen eighty six Greystone office park is two and a half miles from McCarron International Airport and two miles east of the world famous Las Vegas Strip Desert Springs Hospital medical centers directly south of the property and kindred hospital is right nearby you're listening to the CRA news hour from St College for two industrial buildings in the meadowlands sub market of Monarchy New Jersey and that financing is done through Lincoln financial group the origin team went onto secure another twelve and a half hundred times more than incandescent about twelve times as long as fluorescent lamps there are also utility tax incentives and joining us from brute lighting to talk about property advisors a division of Marcus Miller Chap is sold Greystone Office Park a two hundred twenty two thousand Square Foot Five Building Office and retail pad complex but outside of that that's a very large number in terms of the power bill that you're paying every month in addition to that obviously lighting is there in order to make it I feel out of the shield holes in dry tests in two to three years she says the business model of private decommissioning companies involves doing the work quickly and inexpensively led's are ninety percent more efficient than incandescent bulbs and sixty percent more efficient than fluorescent many balls last more than one hundred thousand hours which is there are a number of technologies that are out in the marketplace today there are incandescent based lighting technologies on more than thirteen acres in Las Vegas Nevada the S it sold for twenty seven million dollars or one hundred and twenty one dollars a square foot developed in nineteen eighty two and Shen of a new six hundred sixteen thousand square foot industrial building in Greenwood Indiana they purchase that for eighty one and a half million dollars the property's net leased for Fifteen Years Conference in Jersey City a couple of weeks ago thanks for joining us on the Sierra News Hour thank you for having me so tell us a little bit about brute lighting why do industrial develop and so with that fifty percent and that you know the the exceptions would be if you're doing some type of heavy manufacturing or manufacturing processes the advantages of led lights is got Kent he's the CEO and founder of the company and he joins us from his office in Florida Scott we met at the nape icon I and other commercial real estate developers need to be thinking about making a commitment to led lighting and what do you do to help them with that if you're going into US Gorga Illinois Massachusetts and New York Cbre says leasing activity totaled seven point three four million square feet in Manhattan which is sentiment index decreased two point three points in September to ninety one point five it's a retreat from a survey high in August three of the six H PSI components decree you know an industrial space generally speaking and I'm thinking again generally here lighting will consume about fifty percent of your overall power use ah make employees and other other people in the facility able to to do their do their work in a safe and efficient manner and others to see what and so- led really has been a revolution in in providing whiting source that that her I'd that lightning does so and fluorescent type lighting technologies both of which the incandescent is over one hundred years old and the fluorescent believer that's getting close to a hundred years old so these are very old what they're doing so those are Kinda two initial points that I would touch on so just to start with the energy side of that general concept in mind if you can reduce your energy by ninety percent and your energy is fifty percent of your overall power you said you can run some quick math and that it over the course of the life of the how much we can you expect to save so in briefly answer your question number one point we make is that it's it's it's an as you can reduce your power bill by forty to forty five percent depending upon the you know the the decimal points there and so that's really a great opportunity for any business that I won't jump into yet but if you want to dig in a little bit but the bottom line to it is it's a higher quality and it makes your workplace safer to pay for itself within two years and then as I just mentioned you're simply going to look at it another eight years so total of ten another eight years of technologies that were still using still out in the marketplace every day that are that are creating light in our workspaces are just real and other workspaces us to reduce their operating expenses and the way we look at that is by we say you're going to make an investment into your business it's an ability to make an investment in your business that will save your business operating expenses and again giving you a general answer just conceptually include very detailed calculations in terms of how much you're gonNA save in how much it's GonNa cost you as well so we expect to save fifty dollars per year and obviously operating hours are different and therefore the length of the led's will last getting that same savings so it's really a great investment by any measure from a financial perspective the second piece I touched on is not as objectively and more efficient because for example if you've got people picking items in the warehouse they can they can be quicker and picking it and what we do in that regard is come out to your facility or facilities and we take a look at what what Trent lighting you have and then we can make an assessed it gives you a financial breakdown in terms of total investment the Roi and that investment the payback on the investment and what we call the over a lifetime saving so quantifiable although there are lots of different studies that will will tell you this but led lighting is higher quality and that that is objectively quantifiable thing technology and this is really an establish thing that you could look at with other technologies cellular phones for example it's what's referred to as the hockey stick is low as one tenth of the energy use when you compared to incandescent type fixtures about seventy percent less energy when you compare it to before so with that different but that being said typically we see about a ten year life on led led fixtures so you know you're looking at a two year payback and you just lifted slightly the acceptance rate goes like that so the acceptance rate goes very slowly as the technologies ready but people points that we usually like to leave with so what is it if the the numbers are as dramatic as you say they are in terms of savings what is it that keeps people minner what we would recommend to switch that lighting from that current technology to the appropriate newer led technology and they'll also that come to the financials that I've outlived their so one hundred dollars in investment fifty dollars a year back in return in savings and that gives you your investments the things you do in addition to actually helping people find the products and install the products is also work with them on the financial analysis and the data analysis talk a little bit about how the lights coming from China the yeah there have been some increased tariffs I don't and I it just changed but a number of my suppliers have humans us don't accept it in an invest in they wanna make sure they don't want to be the first one now there are certainly people that are going to be on the cutting edge and WANNA be those first time users but that's what we're seeing in that we're seeing tried to start to turn so you know I haven't seen numbers in the last six months but about six months ago the number I saw was somewhere about the feta sixty percent of industrial warehouse space in the US has been converted so you still got you know depending on what you believe there forty to fifty percent about not a lot of folks that don't have led lighting so really it's new technology and then secondly there are a lot of the ad lights are made in China and I think that's the reason people are sticking with the older forms of lighting well I mean I and this is my opinion but in my opinion it's it's there's fear of change and I think anytime you have a need sure that typically will give you about a fifty percent return on your money so for every hundred dollars say that you were a new best you know any lighting in your industrial space you could from making a commitment to conversion to led as it just the inertia that comes with this is the way we've always done it and I'm comfortable in a note him doing or is there some other is operating so and so what our so what we do is we can calculate and so we go to a facility and we know what are your operating hours so pushed it down the road a little bit too right and said they were there waiting to to impose all the terrace but it's certainly potentially going to impact pricing for sure that works for people who are using your service the way that we analyze the facility you know just give you a very simple example of the another you know I think there are some good things about that there are some bad things about that but I think there is a strong opinions a lot of times folks that you know I don't want anything to do with it so it's make less errors and because the light is better and and and it's it's just a better environment for their for safety purposes as well so those are the kind of the two high level the first technical detail that you need to understand explain this is what is not is actually it's technically called a our not just a what meaning that it's a rating that they put on that that fixture that says that that fixture will draw four hundred watts for every hour that that AH had some increases in price some haven't because they've they've moved stockton us so that really you know there's no is kind of an ongoing thing as I think they the next piece of information that we gather when we do it is to say that we we find out what because tumors paying for power typically the era and it's a little bit of hey you know I'm not sure because I is it made in the US or is it made in China or somewhere else like that is the current trade war the tariffs having any impact on those okay and then what we do is we when we walked her facility obviously we're going to count every lighting fixture there might be ten there might be ten you know five hundred in kilowatts so that's four kilowatts a day times ten cents so you're using forty cents per day to power that one fixture and we may come in and replace that fixture with a one hundred watt led and that one hundred watt now we run the same math the hundred watt over ten hours is a thousand countries about ten cents a kilowatt hour so to to go jump back to that example that one light fixture that's a four hundred watt fixture running pretend to we have a warehouse and there's some older high bay lighting warehouse and typically that lighting might be a four hundred watt metal halide light it's very simple hours a day using four thousand dollars a day is costing so you would then take four thousand watts we divide it by thousand because we're paying very quickly at one question I get that I'll throw in is that a lot of folks would say to me well wait I am running computers I have you know charging a battery and again remember we're talking about industrial spaces there's very rarely just one fixture it's usually in the hundreds so you would multiply that out and say we're you know forty cents per ah but even some like Hawaii is sometimes two and three times higher but generally speaking what an kind of an ad across eighty cents per day per fixture and then until we go through that analysis and we break it out so that it's very clear that these these dollars at a coming out where and so you know how hockey stick shift is long with a with a turn right at the end well and so if you lay that hockey stick out vertically and number of total fixtures in facility but so in this one example we now have four thousand hours of or excuse me four thousand watts being used per day thunderbird leaves and so it's a ten hour shift so that one waiting for light fixture will draw four thousand watts per day we in the United States we pay by kilowatt hour so you you pay your power bill based upon how many kilowatt hours of electricity use so as for my lift trucks how do we know that that's not mixed in and the answer is because because all of these fixtures rated and I'm just counting the in that is called lumens per watt so we talked a little bit about wattage regards t- to looking at the two different types of of lighting fixtures collide that probably many of your listeners have seen it just like what I call it an upside down salad bowl is what it looks like right and it's but it's behind the type like and so I think when you look across the technologies that you're deploying for people what are some of the things you're expecting to roll out over the next couple of years that do you have the lights on and they tell us okay we're running ten hours a day we're running one shift for example maybe two eight hour shift but they lay down in our early and an hour after the ship and the typical costing and varies in an I know you're in New Jersey and that area might be a little higher there's some areas in the middle of the United States that had significantly lower Russian Scott where do renewable energy sources like solar and wind figure into the systems you design are you seeing more use or more interest in will be even more exciting than just led lights is there anything real exciting coming along well there's a couple of different technologies and I wouldn't even really get into that led versus the older type but the themselves are getting more and more efficient and producing more and more lumens per watt or more and more light for as a as a race fixture and if it's one hundred fixtures now we're talking obviously about forty dollars per day in in power usage per day so the led now on the other hand view and divide that by thousand again to get a kilowatt you're using one kilowatt it's only costing you ten cents so you can very quickly see the math here that you're saving again because we'll run the same financial analysis and say we can save you a even more because of the new technology now obviously I don't have a crystal ball so we don't know how fast because I don't know I've heard of them but frankly there many years off and so I don't I it's something that I really don't know too much we'll take a deep dive on the critical factor of energy consumption in commercial real estate with Alex Men Frei CEO of bracelet which model what they're doing is generating their own power in that way or often affect offsetting you know what usage power usage that that that they're having so leave power being used for the lighting itself not for anything else in the facility so we can we really can break that out to give you an exact number on that about to be honest because I don't it's not really viable anytime soon we don't anytime in the nearest business only I would say is what I do expect is industrial space lighting is the one biggest single thing I mean I'm not to say that adding solar or or any other new ables aren't very good things but renewable energy as a as a source for the lighting that you're doing you know they're usually separate I do work with I have I've worked with a couple of different solar that's going to develop but we're seeing it move it doesn't really move in a linear way but it does it does seem to progress in a fairly steady fast for the technology the itself to continue to get more and more efficient and and what I mean by that and there's another metric reused for that on this subject of lighting I appreciate it very much thanks for having Scott Kent is the CEO of brute lighting in Naples Florida you can get more information but he's in one customer that I have actually has sold a lot of solar panels on their one of their large facilities and I think that's great and obviously yeah but for me I just come in really focus directly on the writing piece the reason for that is that when you look at any of these components of the usage of power in in very large cities maybe even more thousand thousand sometimes and so what I'm GonNa give you as the b the building block to it and then you you obviously we just extrapolate based on the shows the amount of power that they're they're using so that's that's exciting and that will continue to so in in you know five years down the road say it may even make sense to upgrade lighting and so that's why we chose our model that we did Great Scott thank you very much for taking the time and we'll check back with you if we need you to shed some more light on the web at Brute Lading B. R. U. T. Lighting Dot Com. We'll put a link in the show notes for this podcast we've tried to be having a really laser focus on what's the few had if you're going to do one thing one thing would you know is the biggest lever and the biggest single love lover right now anyways you're listening to the news hour I'm Steve Labatt Kim. Affluent millennials are continuing to choose renting over also leading the design entitlement and development process for a two hundred and forty four unit sixty million dollar multifamily project in malvern Pennsylvania that Vice President of Metro Development for the Philadelphia region of L. Core his responsibilities include overseeing the full life cycle of the development process the flexible and have the ability to remain transient In doing so they still want or desire to live in a fully monetize community renews our tell us a little bit about L. Kor and what you guys are doing in the Philly suburbs earth thank you for having me I appreciate the time today and ration- to talk about some of the trends that we're seeing in the Philadelphia suburbs we spoke with Brandon Segal he is a kind of in the mid Atlantic region or headquartered here Irwin. PA with twitter operating offices when a New York and the other one as the day to day out looking the market were out looking for opportunities to build a long term hold communities that can you know Al Gore is a fully integrated investment management and development shop with a forty year history of developing properties. What is known as Arlo we spoke with Brandon about some of the trends he seeing in the multifamily rental market for millennials brandon thanks for joining us on the scene sourcing underwriting entitling designing financing and managing the Construction Process Brandon joined in twenty fourteen and he's played an angles don't want to put down roots just yet and actually be homeowners we think that the boom for or the four round up mixed-use multifamily don't project specifically to our team here in the photo exciting project today called Arlo and Arlo is a Two hundred forty four unit multifamily community just the new trend for for for renters continues to run on us as as you say millennials continue to not want to purchase a home they want to continue to be so tell us a little bit about our low it say I it's aimed at millennials I guess and what is the trend that you're seeing it seems like integral role in development of nineteen nineteen market street that's a three hundred twenty one hundred and forty eight million dollar project in center city Philadelphia and he's in how we think about the project is we think this is kind of trending towards a later millennial not you know not somebody who just Una college and has a I via a great home for residents and community like so we kinda replant our flag back in Philadelphia when we entered the joint venture off or that they can call home that has all the luxury features finishes at evade exceeding their future home where their future community so what we designed there's thirty thousand jobs in five mile radius fifty thousand jobs from from King of Prussia Down to Westchester So we think this is this we look at this due to a two in the in the Great Valley area were super excited to get ready to open the doors to the community on the large projects Ryan gas appliances the project features a seven thousand square foot clubhouse it's got a clubroom screening room in fully built out fitness in center city at Nice nineteen market and after that we've moved on and still own and manage that property but are getting ready to deliver a RV. I can job this is probably your last inning runner duly because location right the projects located Jason's agree by or percenter ear on older millennials is they're starting to think about maybe a suburban lifestyle might be nice and looking at places that were deal with that we are seeing some of it and that's that you know we take into consideration how plan our unit to hopefully counteract things we're seeing in in the North Jersey market as the rents go up and the urban living starts to what manner with with workout studio were pods or lounge is outdoor fire pits in cooking stations. You know a luxury you know sort of the suburban communities of their parents are you seeing any of that indication and what do you do with the property in terms of turnover too Asia we provide an opportunity to limit community that may have that suburban environment but still has the space in the size of features to Kinda to keep the young family can live there or years and when we select sites we make sure that the location as good school district so for a spacious layout while providing the convenience and opportunity to somebody who would like to stay there longer than rental term so one of the sure sure so we're not to get too deep into it we have a couple of things going along we're in design project the unit mix and unit sizes we purposely size them to accommodate the person who wants to be in the suburbs so are two bedroom units are you know have enough space in them opening our community aside from your bullishness on the Philadelphia Market are there some challenges that are unique to Philadelphia in terms of homeownership unless there at the end of far bell and they're coming back and selling their home and want less responsibility but you know when we think about people don't want to commute you know an hour and the city you're out of the city so we provide them that opportunity to be convenient to work to employment or retail residents longer than so what's next for you guys you have another project in the pipeline that you can talk about Ah owned by a Union Pension Fund so the union environment is very important to us and something we're very sensitive to so when we with the Sun Shell in a community green host events so we tried to bring everything that the renner desires within one community in that inevitably there will always return people will always we believe age out of being within these projects and likely long-term plan from US people as AH capitalized by pension fund we have more of a long term outlook and and maybe some competition may have which gives us to look at things a little differently location in the right design so we continue to be out the Internet looking for these opportunities for to develop for or estate development I know some other developers have complained about labor costs and have complained about the the tax situation in Philadelphia are you are you commoditised or opportunities due to the continued up pushing labor costs on pushing construction costs heap running so it makes finding opportunity to learn more challenging You know we need to find apple this site is in Great Valley which is the number leaving number nine ranks district in Pennsylvania so to kind of counteract the suburban ready L. on on a high rise development there we continue to believe this is ripe for future luxury becoming development so that's in early Polish on Philadelphia we believe is still has a lot of runway and there's a lot of demand for a luxury multifamily product at the right price point every day and make sure we keep our pulse on his look for new opportunities some of the other developers have also indicated that the current trade stages and were going through kind of a process on that and then getting working through another opportunity in training in how we went to underwrite them and think about them and similarly on the on the tax side the abatement has been oreo location and I can't give too much detail on this one yet but in a first ring suburb Philadelphia on so again we're we're we're you know there's been a plethora of lives delivered to the market We think there may be a little slowing of supply. Alternately deals are still getting capitalized or still building I think the industry is shifting to account for the tariffs you know whether it be relocating disabilities adjusting pricing so again it's there it's something we pay attention to but not ultimately something that there shouldn't be other options to counteract the wars that are going on with the tariffs imposed on imports are having an impact on construction materials are you seeing any evidence of aw aw there's still going to deliver more units to to Philadelphia again it just has us being a little more selective our opportunities and being countries that do not have tariffs imposed that's always an opportunity so we work closely with our general contractor and have these conversations affront today and we wish you luck and we'll check back with you again appreciate it what could be a blessing. Brandon Segal is vice president of Philadelphia Metro Development for L. Core Brandon thanks very much for taking the time with US containment but then also take a wants further by still developing a community that has all the luxury features initiative it's xy wherever they live you know we'll be back in a minute Sean this is Rabbi Richard Address join us for our podcast series from Jewish sacred aging order for flooring and it was a tariff imposed so we openly need to look for other products if it's looking for products that are coming out rinsing that and how do you deal with those kinds of problems if you are I I'd ask you the same sentiment that everybody else's saying yes we are demand which is particularly valuable for building owners who were trying to comply with new regulations being passed to reduce carbon emissions and fight climate change like the a terrific stimulus to out of off your market if the abatement were to mature change without giving any nations to how that shakes out so we'll see where that goes but there's no doubt that the abatement in conjunction with Labor prices in construction pricing are something that we focus on there you are helping people analyze the energy consumption of their buildings. Tell me a little bit about how you got the idea for bracelet and how you develop the technology owners to gauge the impact of building optimizations like replacing inefficient and outdated HVAC equipment or implementing parameters to respond to real time energy. Hey to showcase your expertise to perspective customers let the LUBEC in media companies handle the technical side we're award winning audio and video producers on their heating ventilating and air conditioning bracelet is a smart building software company based in Texas that provides a unique tech solution for property owners we can help you produce podcasts and video programs remotely or in our fully equipped studio in Cherry Hill visit being the media dot com for more information it's a digital energy twin of each building it analyzes and then simulates the buildings performance with what it calls near perfect accuracy this technology enables seekers of meaning podcast airs every Friday morning at eight am at Jewish sacred aging dot com that and what's your work around if there is yes we're seeing it we dealt with it specifically at our project and mouth and we were on and one of the biggest factors in the cost of operating buildings is energy usage and new technologies are coming on stream who are looking to cut their building missions it uses factors such as building usage equipment level energy consumption and weather data and create Georgia Institute of Technology and in Two Thousand Sixteen Alec was named to Forbes Magazine's thirty under thirty in the Energy Category Alec thanks for joining us on the news hour entitled seekers of meeting will explore some of the issues and events that impact our cells our families and our Jewish world at large in light of the current revolution in Aging City Climate Mobilization Act joining us on the program is Alec Manfried the CEO and Co founder of bracket he is a mechanical engineering graduate from the underneath the surface and how he could how we could make buildings operate more efficiently using using that data and so those really the the beginning of You can't wait for the media to cover your company you have to be the media take advantage of the power of audio and video it's the best one in the urban environment we we make sure we focus on using union labor but the you know the the downside effects of that is it's expensive in construction costs aimed to help building owners and managers analyze and fix the energy problems that could be costing them more money than they should be spending we're gonNA create a computer model that can match the energy profile of the building at a high level it's major systems but then also and we're actually hearing that a lot of these Manufacturers are moving their production facilities into countries that they will not have these Harrison Poso bracket is how can we more easily capture that data because it wasn't available and then how can we analyze that to drive energy efficiency also pieces of equipment so in order to do that it's actually the merging of information about how the building was designed and utilized with data personally and then with my two co founders been focused on energy efficiency in highschool where I got passionate about this subject Worked with me and data is is really not enough to do this type of analysis you have to bring in that information about how the building's designed how how tall is it how many as you're making and find out for for savings and so that was the beginning of bracket we've gone through a couple of major pivots along the way but that that's been the central focus data and information about the building to digital energy twin so we can find out exactly how can we optimize guessing systems that are in the building for causes and then also if they're pathway investment pathways to get it to work more effectively what are those every building is completely different that we've gone into four are there how are the rooms broke it out how the systems designed and configured all of this information needs to live side by side with the object as a convenience play the renter who wants live here wants to be close to work in close to home no time is valuable today and we're learning more and more than having the owner but also how can owners invest in their buildings to make sure that their tenants are comfortable that their buildings are maintained and make sure that the got it and one of the things that kept coming up in and those experiences was actually understanding how buildings were concerned allies differently systems all design in different ways and so to be able to understand those unique characteristic of each building really works for the most important piece of this is this allows us to fully understand not only how the building is operating but how it can further be optimized actually use existing data from building to create a model and then you can play out scenarios how does that work the concept of digital energy twin work on energy efficiency topics renewable topics in research in the area public policy and in more technical research and continue to making the best investment decisions that are driving ultimately returns in their portfolio wonder if you could go a little bit deeper into this idea of the digital energy twin sure first of all it's great to be here thank you for having me on so bracket and the and how we got here has been quite a journey between myself arms that owners can then act upon and then we can help them make sure that execution that successful and they and they get their desired returns but that's really an important piece we take it high degree of accuracy and then merge that with this data this rich data coming from site that we collect as well through our own sensors and tapping into existing sensor district to set up school competitions to reduce energy consumption for to get stiller on on our high school and that really took me into you think I my myself in the subject and that was why I wanted to become an engineer to take a problem such as energy efficiency and climate change and do something about data so we take that information we turn it into the digital model each piece of equipment actually has its own thermodynamic model behind it and so we can model these buildings with coming energy was a difficult thing to get an answer on we had utility bills those were a little easier to get your hands on but it didn't really tell you what was actually going on settling pieces well how do we actually create these models you know how do we how do we create a model for something that's you know in in real life it's the the the challenging piece of commercial real estate and going into a existing buildings is each building has been maintained differently it's been used what are those physics behind it we have folks from leading institutions Georgia tech actually one of the top building performance labs an analysis and capability into something that's real tangible and and May and ensure that it can be implemented and that's where in my college years where a net two other co founders at Georgia Tech we're all Matt Mechanical Engineer by Education and continue to are we have the data analysis we have that expertise we have folks that masters in in statistics and and data and ED scientists and engineers to help you with these models talk a little bit about their experience of physics and engineering experts that you talk about on your website I think one of the the three core core disciplines under one roof that is louder team to be incredibly effective and so we have the software era of that complexity to make sure the most accurate analysis on savings and cost and returns and allow our customers and the owners of buildings also ut Austin is represented so we have a really Nice Group of folks there but then another missing piece is all right we have the data analysis energy twin What's the next step in taking all of that data and all of that modeling and turning it into practical advice for the owners of the building the