20 Episode results for "New South Wales"
LNE - World Kidlines with Paxton 7-01-2020: Kids News: Koalas, a ferry crash in Bangladesh
"Suadi my name is Paxton. The world is awesome. I'm here to help you know and care more about the world beyond the U. S.. A.. Today's date is July, first twenty twenty. Our first kit line is the king of Belgium says he is sorry about what Belgium did a long time ago to people in Africa Belgium used to control the Belgian Congo which is now Rwanda and really are second get line is. will be extinct in New South Wales by twenty fifty unless people try harder to stop f our third kit line is. Because of covid nineteen, some Christians in Kenya who can't go to church are singing from apartment complexes. Our fourth kit line is. A fairy has crashed in Bangladesh are v Kent. Line is Saharan. Dust Storm swept over the Caribbean the Sahara is the big desert in Africa thousands of miles away. And our question of the day is. What. Animal may become extinct in New South Wales Australia by twenty fifty. Is it a Koalas Be. Frogs, or sea monkeys. And the answer is a coup. Wallace may become extinct in New South Wales Australia by twenty fifty. Fangs FA listening to world kept lines with Paxton there lots when news for kids let a news ears dot com. We're also on Youtube and major pod casting platforms. May, your sweetness shine, and your colors glow. Sources for today's headlines include the BBC, The Guardian and C. N. N..
LNE: World Kidlines with Paxton: Koalas and a Saharan Dust Storm
"Suadi, my name is Paxton. The world is awesome. I'm here to help you know and care more about the world beyond the U. S. A.. Today's date. Is July first twenty twenty? Our first kit line is the king of Belgium says he is sorry about what Belgium did a long time ago to people in Africa Belgium used to control the Belgian Congo, which is now, Rwanda and really are second. Get Line is. will be extinct in New South Wales by twenty fifty, unless people try harder to stop F, our third kit line is. Because of covid nineteen, some Christians in Kenya. Who can't go to church are singing from apartment complexes. Our fourth kit line is. A fairy has crashed in Bangladesh are V, Kent. Line is Saharan dust storm swept over the Caribbean. The Sahara is the big desert in Africa thousands of miles away. And our question of the day is. What animal may become extinct in new. South Wales Australia by twenty fifty. Is it a Koalas? Be. Frogs or sea monkeys. And the answer is a coup. Wallace may become extinct in New South Wales Australia by twenty fifty. Fangs listening to world kept lines with Paxton there lots. When news for kids let a news, EARS DOT com. We're also on Youtube and major pod casting platforms. May your sweetness shine and your colors glow. Sources, for today's headlines include the BBC The Guardian and C. N. N..
Rum Rebellion began - January 26, 1808
"Here's the thing saving money with. GEICO is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes. And who completely hack you. And then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch switch and save on car insurance no need to fake. An ankle sprain. Because you're absolutely exhausted. So switch and save with GYCO. It's almost better than sports. This Day in history class is a production of iheartradio. Hi again everyone. I'm eve and you're listening to this day in history class where instead of going going back to the future we go back to the past today. It's January twenty. Sixth Twenty Twenty and the day was January. Twenty six eighteen o. Eight William Bligh. By the Governor of New South Wales was deposed by a military coup. The military was in power for two years during a takeover now known as the rum rebellion though. This name was not used at the time in seventeen eighty eight. The first fleet led by captain. Arthur Phillip arrived in Australia from England on January twenty. Sixth ships arrived at Port Jackson marking the beginning of British colonisation on Australian mainland a place. That was already inhabited Abbott by indigenous. Australians the first fleet included military and government officials their families and other colonists but it it also included hundreds of people convicted of crimes and sentenced to Transportation New South Wales was founded as a penal colony. Philip became became the first governor of the colony governors represented and took instruction from the British government. They were the supreme authority in the colony and because the British parliament element was far away. They were able to exercise. More power than parliament prescribed. The New South Wales Corps made up of several hundred men formed armed in England in seventeen eighty nine many of them were unskilled or semiskilled men who were struggling and Britain and looking for a better life in New South Wales in addition to better wages and living conditions that the men could look forward to the officers. Got The opportunity to engage in trade land grants from the governor and Hand Free Labor from convicts at the same time officers grew wealthy and lived comfortably. People in the colony dealt with food shortages and poor infrastructure infrastructure since the colony did not have enough currency trade was handled through barter per misery. Notes and coins convicts in lower ranking thinking military members were often paid in goods especially rum imported from India. The officers of the Corps monopolize the trade in rum buying buying it up and exchanging it for goods and labor because of this they became known as the Rum Corps. The commanding officers of New South Wales Corps took Over after Governor Phillip Return to England in Seventeen Ninety two during their time in power they controlled the colony's economy. They administered the colony until governor. John Hunter took the reins seventeen ninety. Five hunter ended the next governor. Philip Gidley king fought the military's monopoly on trade but to tale in eighteen. Six William Bligh became the governor of New South Wales by had a reputation for being tough and he began efforts to control troll trade monopolies and corruption among officers. The cores officers began to resent him. Bligh soon clashed with former corps. Officer John Macarthur over a land grant and conflict between the two continued over other matters when black hat macarthur taken to trial over an issue involving MacArthur ships tips. The court included a jury of six core officers. The trial escalated from accusing the officers of treason to the cores commanding officer. George Short Johnston issuing an order that bligh be removed from office on January twenty. Sixth Eighteen eight men from the new South. Wales Corps marched marched from the parade ground on High Street to Government House followed by a large crowd they found and arrested and deposed him. Johnston and Macarthur Macarthur then took control of the colony. BLIGH remained under arrest in Government House with his daughter for more than a year. The next Governor Lachlan Macquarie took over in January eighteen. Ten the seventy third regiment replaced the New South Wales Corps mcquarry cancelled all land grants. The court sentences made under the military's rule and he called for quote union tranquility and harmony declaring that everyone appointed to an office of law after after the coup would be immune from prosecution regarding their actions while in office in eighteen ten. Johnston was convicted of mutiny and dismissed from the the army. Though he later returned to New South Wales in live a comfortable life. Macarthur had gone to England and he was ordered to be tried for treason when when he returned to New South Wales but he did not go back until he was given permission to return without facing trial in eighteen seventeen on the condition that he would not be involved in public affairs. Macarthur was appointed to the New South Wales Legislative Council in eighteen twenty five. I'm East Jeff Coke Okay and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday you can find us on social media at TD. I H C podcast on twitter. Her instagram and facebook. You can also shoot us an email at this day at iheartmedia dot com. I hope you enjoy today's episode episode. We'll be back tomorrow with another one for more podcasts. From iheartradio I heart radio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows the future is closer than you think and it all starts in in the palm of your hand you may have heard the news. Five G. is coming in this new IHEART series. This time tomorrow presented by team above a business. Join join me as well often am. I cursed characterize as we will you through the true revolution immobility. That will change the way we interact with the world around us. Join US and here just how close we are getting to a more connected future. This time tomorrow is now available on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Episode 212 - Cybersecurity Taskforce Webinar Session - Capacity Building For Resilience 2020
"Without Trust Society stagnates economies decline and. File my security media believes through security trust between individuals, organizations and government can be maintained. Woke up to this is security podcast. Welcome to the savage security weekly podcast. This is a podcast version of this opera security task. National. Cyber. Security. Capacity. Building for Resilience Twenty Twenty recorded on the twenty seventh of July twenty, twenty with stand destroyed. Off Cyber the strength Cybersecurity Greg Network and the New South Wales government. We're going to hear from the Honorable Victim Domino MP Minister for the New South Wales, government customer service parameter the chief of ecosystem development for Asaba. Dr J. Hana these strategic advocacy manager for Standards Australia. And Salmon Bush the General Manager for the Australian. Information Industry. Association. We commence with hearing from the honorable Victor Domico Impe and the web version is available on Security TV. Thanks Chris and can I also thank also ever and standards Australia up for this support of the Task Force and Mas security media housing the tassels tonight. In February she in I, pre covered will covered was dig. Are. The cities but when it comes to Australia we still To understand the significance of it. I think I had one of my lost face to face meetings in pre covered will with the. It was in my border just around the corner and they said. We need to do more work nationally, of course. On the cyber shoot and said New South Wales is leading the country when it comes to digital transformation is no doubt about that. We definitely WANNA pie ladyship role when it comes to either because we know how important is and I asked them, what are the three things that we really needed to do to improve the sittings or the posture in Saada out for New South Wales that could then lead the country given out investment. A Knight said, Hamas Asian prioritization and regionalization Naw comes street things at the moment. What happened often February obviously everybody got into the covid mindset and things have just evolved. Dramatically, since that point. Now in many ways this saw. Dr has become even more important on not just for New South Wales slash thrive on the world scene particularly as we've Sane various forms of attacks, high profile attacks in recent on. The, as you know now, main policies for God's tax occurring almost every minute of the day, but you know the the. The appreciation of how important Sauber's has definitely been elevated in the public. Narrative. Way Native more definitely definitely needs a late here in New South Wales because I. WE understand how significant? Cyber Isn Esau Muscle is. Also because we are moving so rapidly on the digital trump's. So. Wave obviously on the driver's license, we don the a combined seeing the property, the Planning Rebecca role at construction. Transports highly digital. And we're doing a hauler on the the hill spice adjusts a spice. Waikele say what we got in store for Silvestri southbound more digital products. Digital services are getting beat rolling out on that platform. That's very exciting but. What I'm trying to say is The government is absolutely focused on the digital will because we know that. We can provide Bitta services but far more accurate services to the right people around great site. So that's why we've announced I want a record one point, six, billion dollars for a digital race dot funds. Just about we announced that now that I record spins in not just in use as well as but in Australian history it is enormous much money we're going to be putting into a digital initiatives of the next three years. We Ward Year mocked of that one point six, billion about sue hundred, forty, million dollars facade. Because if we got all these digital initiatives. Out We, need to make sure cyber is baked in because we cannot deliver digital products and services unless we have trust and trust is upset many many times before is built on. On a platform off privacy security, which is cyber. Transparency of government more daughter being opened up and ethics and. Is just critical. So if we don't get that, right, we lose trust stride away. So that's why we're putting two hundred and million dollars into that. A bulk of the targeted two, hundred, Forty Mil will be to develop uplift road across. Whole of government. So we've got pockets of excellence within New South Wales Governors. You'd expect and we got Sabat newsouth some security, New South Wales running tiny Chapman's during a great job. But we need to lift. All ships in the harbor as it were and we're GONNA do that or if I or through a focus on the ISD, essentially light so that that will be parkas focus for us. We've already started development on the new cyber security strategy and we'll make sure that we align with the KOMO's security strategy. When that's GonNa get released I think in September but in the coming months and we definitely encourage you to get involved and to help shop it. As if I can go back to those three things that. Are offering the to. In February that we really needed to drive to get off to a good apply see. The I was. To prioritization I A, we need to make sure we prioritize Sovan procurement prioritize. Procurement spins. So to make sure that it is sovereign aligned and you know I didn't need to go I need to indicate to this audience how critical that is we talked about a lot but now gonna do it and. I set up my task force Minister Cheeto to look at procurement more generally specifically around saw and and the sovereign procurement place i. that's going to be very quick Tostao so that they seem to go for months and years we need to spending the one point six billion we're going to try and get off being out the door this year. So. We need to hurry up and get that saw sovereign Ostia report and so that that's why that taskforce is going to be. Pretty. Quick. On the second place, we were wig on that regionalization throw all your eggs in the city basket is attractive is that is we need to definitely. With more on the on the regional play and we've done that we've already announced that we using regional baptist as I face the Pi Day. So. That's a natural place guy because you got. Chelsea. University you've got gotTA special services already. It's it is already I, hob Regional Haba for fatality. So we can rapidly build out out saga muscle in bestest but we're GONNA do some other regional pieces will but we already saw that passes, which is great. News. And the thing about building saw in the regions is you don't just creating a job you'll create which the regional embodies all of them want more jobs than regions, but you'll creating an industry a job. Loss awake a month a year. Five years industries loss generations. And that's why it's important that we build. More regionalization when it comes to saga. The third thing is Hamas Isan said again possible. Is Well and truly underway that already had a number of meetings to make sure we get. Our Of the standards imply so people can make informed decisions around the cyber products and services that they need to provide or choir. So if I can just go down into the cyber standards. tostados. This is gonNA. Have a major all and again, it's something that nobody's really tackled. But because walls is leading digital and is now leading saw the league because of investment. I think it's incumbent on us to lead the way when it comes to standards and that's why again I wanNA thank. Both cyber. That end standards Australia for the leadership in the collaboration without government because this copy just a new South Wales fly it has to be an Australian ply emotion standards. We will just type I've lead role because outsized because of our investment and because of our maturity in the digital spice, it's inc. in fact, we have an obligation to do it because because of where we are. So in conclusion I, just like to thank everybody that's being involved in the toss empty enormous interest. That's been around the toss. Well, that's that's reassuring and comforting because it just means that we are definitely on the right track. On looking forward to you'll recites through the industries and how that plays into the toss was more importantly how that translates into a practical application. As we sit New South Wales in destroy your up full saw the success they success more generally in the future. So thank you for having me. And communities not do we do appreciate that and we are going to hand the now to Brianna and to dump the did WANNA. Right look thank you very much for inviting us to be part of this Webinar, and thank you minister for such a fantastic actually review on Wi with partnering with you An immaturity and leadership actually that you mentioned as pot of You'll presentation there is exactly why we're actually choosing to partner with New South Wales for this particular program become going to shine my screen Jinnai guide today a bit of a tangent dance for you. We're going to go trust lot together. Because this program that would kind of doing with New South Wales is actually being done hand in hand. And Guide to keep it fairly informal. So, let me just show my screen for you. Here we go. I'm hoping that you can allstate if you can't see it. Let Me Naar Philip the New South Wales saw the Security Standard Thomas Action Project I mentioned before my name is Purna metal on the chief of Ecosystem Development from Asaba and Jide on strategic advocacy manager full. Standards Strata. with both going to just talk a little bit about who who we are and what each of our organization is doing, and therefore why were involved. And then we'll talk through exactly what the program program is and the various elements for the program will mention timelines and. We're actually attacking the base fake. for firstly Asaba. We so we are a government funded organization, but we are independent of government when not an industry associations but we do represent industry. We have three really clear simple objectives. Our job is to grow strand saw security ecosystem, and we do that by providing support to. All of the. Australian the majority of whom RSM as and there's very few training companies that are even. Over the numbers I guess to turn I've. Felt were number of hundred employees because all Secca is very young Still we're still growing into there's a lot that we need to do to be able to provide the scaffolding as it were to be able to enable A second objective is to explore the try to stop security capabilities to the world, and this is where the sovereign pace comes into play. So not only do we want to make sure that Estrada is purchasing and supporting Australian Kevin Dillon and stretching technology of which saw the is an elemental it, but we also they want to be able to showcase capability globally and our role is to be able to assist that growth in that scaling to occur and things like standardization is essential. If we can't stand it is and harmonized nationally than how is face to compete internationally. And the food objective for us is to make a the leading center facade, the education missile to Manila or. Talked about regionalization and he talked about not just creating jobs in the rain but actually creating an entire sector in the region and job a really important they need to be skilled and we need to be able to ensure that we've got pipeline of appropriately skilled side the away side, the savvy employee's in the workforce, not just within the tech sector. But across all sectors because we need to actually build resilience and build up posture inside the security to be able to compete. So that's who we are ongoing shoot Jed. Thanks. So much he really appreciate that on auto and have slides on this particular night because it'll be by slides but that's a really lovely segue from your presentation and the exciting work the minister outlined in. New. South Wales which is I think world-leading instead aside, and I have to say, even the toss itself an ambition and it's appetite also takes the find box. We couldn't find anything comparative happening. Globally. So exciting to be part of this, where can I think? It's immediately relevant to the ministers point about working hand in glove with the fates and also internationally as out of supply chains, and then building up at sovereign capacity very excited to be here supporting as well. Intensive Al Role where Australia's National Standards Body that doesn't mean a to a lot of people but we're essentially part of a study is critical. infrastructure. So we talk about that loss in Saudi security but beginnings use us now and use it infrastructure, and would we do is sitting standards in areas that would touch all of your lives I think are merely here of the work we do an infrastructure and building, which literally would shape all of these. You're sitting in today from the minister's office where he's presenting from to the room products and right now myself. Sitting on physical requirements rarely and standardization around daily law. But we also have a footprint which some of you will be highly aware of and others white bay around technology standards to so plugging in globally two bodies like the ice ice say and two others the in the European Community for example, and then by metro shape standards around technology, and that's what's us to the space today. So that right Rangers from. Security, payments to digital standards more broadly including fall together like I and Al Job there is to connect. To the world. So I think to the ministers challenge and the prime minister is themselves out challenges and skylines. Now, in this current will you can call it the price covid woolworth digital's become devices is to become a standards makers and not just standards titus and it is true if he looks at the expertise we have in Australia we have able we've been talking to them over the past few weeks. It was solder talented in terms of being able to turn frameworks until reality at the level of controls and the like and governance frameworks. At one of the challenges we've had historically is making sure that we didn't mirror that expertise globally. So I think one of the exciting opportunity task was brings and the work that we do as you'll national standards body is a trial channel that Australian voice back. So the way all of us who are shaping best practice on some of you the cooler doing that we can be a springboard day for action as well. So I thought I'd leave it there and a broad view but essentially, we are your voice globally around standard sitting an equally we WANNA play a role in the Australian Sector all all sectors across the economy standards as well. They. Thank you gentlemen, GonNa move to the next slide wanting to keep that up we. Just call apple people will use that slide that would just before you could go back. Thanks Chris just very bracelet. I thought I would walk people through the broad of the standards because I know when we dive into the ice, many of you rightly think about regulation and the white standards used in most spices. But also I guess what I'm very briefly kind of picture about how standards used across the economy which I think is important for discussions we're GONNA have and it's actually important because I of the night any concerns that this immediately procurement regulatory pace, which it's not a sustainable can be used on a voluntary basis by industry that's just sitting common benchmark across supply chains. In relation to specific product, and that's traditional Fremont use within have their inclusion in contracts, which is a second spurs standards come to lost I and that's you traditionally in supply chains. So when we think about the commercial in fact, all of you would sign with a you our supplier Major work as a prime standards, they are often referenced than any lawyers. MOCO. Will notice to manage the risks that companies have and others might be standards around record keeping data and increasingly them on standards around cybersecurity. So regularly take like healthcare and others banking. You might use standards in that sense to assure yourself in your customers that people down the line are actually doing due-diligence, just saying it and finally, of course, this regular caller and that's a whole number kill fish. So as a national standards body, we don't lobby that that's not our all our role is not to great type however when standards of. State and territory in federal governments, call them up, and that's when you get the mandating of standards. So just want paint that picture beyond our role. To calibers conversation, and just to reassure people that in terms of the Tostados let's work. It's looking at those first two uses primarily elegant health the market at how we can do that supply chains minister mentioned sovereign procurement that will come into play as well. and. The final piece of course is is is the area when government plates. So stay colleagues played by Tony Chapman I federal colleagues phase in the life would be the people who look at the co-op of standards. So I just wanted to to outline that everyone on the coal mining any fears you might have, but I think it's also really good to Columbus because people use the word standards they loose white and I think having some territories often helpful. XP. Fantastic. Thank you. All right. salukis slide really tries to paint a picture of everything that's out there and Saw The security. and. It's quite clear that there's a lot already going on. So where we started with thinking about status. With what he out there will they currently has an impact on the radio. So we have wrought at the top there. The ACC not security sentinel. are really responsible for things like the essential lies and the essential eight is being applied predominantly across critical infrastructure but also across the number sectors and t two t three companies as well. Then there's the module framework which is out of the US. There's ironside standards that I guess everyone is aware of the neck can become quite complex and complicated depending on what sector that you're operating in. The UK. For example, the JC J. C. H. Q. Uses the our national cyber security standards of. The new standards again out of the US and the Nice standards that sit underneath that four. Substitute Skills of workforce development for example, other security standards that are being used in the new standards interestingly, currently being reviewed and a strategy actually provided some input into that revere so that we can kind of try and globalized of that the use of the standards. C I s is another one of those standards. Each focus caught a lot actually on the benchmarks and best practice which I'll bring up again because it's one of the reasons while the doing this program in. At the moment. we talked about a strife out security strategy and that's happening right now. So we're hoping that the national strategy will be released in the next couple of weeks potentially and that's probably going to give one load of guidance again on government and what industry are going today needing today in to increase Assad posture. And loss lead the. Substrate maturity model, and casually just come out of the US and this is failing years So a lot of people still getting their heads around by the MC as its fondly called will be a requirement be able to thanks to that I noticed that was coming out of the US. Last week was a bill that had been put up. That suggests that are a number of years I. think it was h ten years time all government procurement has to have. I think close to ninety or one hundred percent. Going through a local provider. So that's a US provide us ahead of that impact us and had we need to tonight show that comply. So there's some of the questions that we started looking at as part of this project. Hope Jeddah probably also is there anything else you wanted to add for move onto the next lot? Covers license thanks state? Really okay. So I think The minister actually mentioned three things. He said, we want to talk about hominids action. We wanted to talk about prioritization and we wanted to also address regionalization. Those three things aren't occur independently. What we found was that the actually incredibly will integration and without Stan Kandebow the participation peace without participation, you can't really do the regionalization paste and Basa. So if peace is not independent, it is actually designed to they instinct with the other. Priorities of the New South Wales government is trying to address. All the harmonization standards pace. Really what we're trying to do is embiid industry-led saw the standards across New South Wales, and from new, south Wales leading out nationally. What we're trying to do is conveyed in government and industry to accelerate the adoption of a harmonized standards facade security in Australia and how we're doing that we're bringing together industry we're bringing together all the government. So it's not just New South Wales New, South Wales listening to what other state governments doing villa's won't federal government is doing. We're working hand in step looking step. Sorry where some Status Australia who going to help drive the development of be security standards and we really need is sending to industry because industry are the ones that are currently faced with. A myriad of standards advice compliance regulation that they're trying to work for. And what will we have his result will we'll hopefully going to have. We're hopefully going to have a framework and that framework will be sick to specific. It will provide standards and goddess around how we can become more competitive. Advantage want ads anything to that. That's right and just on the school. The point of this is to leverage private sector expertise. So we recognize as with any economy every sector of the economy is going to be gods, and then we people who are based in close and we know that on a lot of sectors financial services healthcare already leading the way in terms of. The defensive security including the use of standards, and we want to back to be the starting point for for government interventions to because to be frank when you're spending all that money and all that time to get things right at an enterprise level plus your whole organization we think you should be listened to before we start talking about other forms of regulations developing new standards. At, slightly. A little bit of a month Mac. What we wanted to try and do here is paint a picture of how a tackling. This particular program. So we're looking at what global standards company where in place and you stole the diagram that I've put up previously. What founding to is a number of sectors that don't have direction on either asking for it or kind of making it up as they going along and by making it up, I don't mean that they just coming up with a standard what they're trying to invading bar from what's occurring across the sectors or what's happening globally. So. What we are trying to do is bring everything together to find out what the gap saw. Find out what works and what's currently being used, what's effective, and then create a minimum standard or inch mock or starting point and that benchmark needs to be fit for purpose. So there's absolutely no point in saying well, you must do this when the sector doesn't agree with it and it's not going to be easily applicable. The six sectors that we're going to be focusing on a health energy IOT. which will include STAHL defense financial services and education. And you can save that underneath each of those sectors there's I guess a very degree of maturity in some sectors such as the financial services sector. There's actually clear regulations such as the particularly for that allows companies to understand what the minimum kwanzaa in other sectors such as IRA, tae there's a lot underdevelopment. Of course, we'll be hearing more about that in a mortgage. And it's around kind of understanding and working through each one of those. So together with business leaders across each of as priority sectors, we were going to review what these standards all, and at the end of that we guide have improved uptake of industry-led sobbed security standards across Australia. Jed Anything to add on. That one. Site set at the very least had already source of information for new market entrance to the minister spoke about and procurement as people enter those global supply chains what we will do is disentangle this information for them in very blunt terms. So at the moment in. Defense. To roundtable last week try to unpack the layers of complexity. So it is very easy for example, for a government or other stakeholders to say we want a particular sector, the focus for us while we're trying to do through this task force that they matt, what needs to happen for business to effectively do business across borders, which is the gross agendas, a governments articulating. So. This piece of work will be highly practical with that since because we're already starting at that base where everyone's on different labels of people have some very detailed experience and trying to match that. So actually, it becomes easier for marketing prince for businesses vice into example New South Wales to actually stand up into from the beginning and knock record from the end in blog tunes. XP. Brilliant. And I'll let you speak. Hit like. Yeah right look in terms of prices because I know that's a question. Many of you will have many of you might have the question are not going to queue and I in a short while of disarming spoken as well but the process will this particular projects minister launched it in June I think we had some really good media coverage and certainly some interests are given the focus and the timing of that is to say of the back of some major breaches data breaches in security issues that are being flagged. We did some initial math, and so we spend time actually as a group not all. Of US soccer experts will freely admit that but many of US policy wonks people who've talked to plaintiff lawyers and commercial spice to know what's being used where and we mapped the standards that are in use at a very high level. So went back to legislative frameworks that drive, for example, health financial services So what's relevant to you and you said wiles in relation to patient data, for example, and then we met through the standards that are being applied commercially of Ashley tweets chimes, and some of the regulated wants to look at. So we've done that mapping work which would sharing sick to buttoning to titles. Roundtables of for people who are nominated. So we also welcome that engagement by the way we've been adding people to round since we go is many. And it'll be a long process. As listed in front of you got round titles now on into early. August that's an initial listening exercise but I have to say we've been very impressed by the level of engagement. Education defense was last week really high levels of literacy of standards. Because of these are the experts of course The people can talk through the various challenges that face thing what we're looking for from his round titles to appoint might before is we've obviously go parallel processes in place because the standards amylase schools very staying online focusing on what we're doing out. We've also got the minister through his department able like Tony Chapman, driving some great work around policy including the updated Cyber Security Strategy for New South Wales. So, a capturing your ideas when you have them around knocked just standards suggests that Marxist and we make no assumptions what works well, what's relevant to specific sectors, Rosa capturing grand ideas, people have, and I have to say last week we had three or four really really useful ones really come through. So we're sharing those with government capturing them all allies stations as well. So don't feel like you just have to focus and standards. Finally this'll all culminates in the development of framework. So people have called us in Alsatians a framework of signboards. Completely. Get at and that's probably a good description. If you're looking at how standards in sitting sectors already come. Ready, to be used at a broad level enterprise label that's that'll be the focus. So this case will be a public facing document, which will actually I think for one of the first times practically by so open to public demonstrate and show the standards you would need to consider in specific sectors, and of course, that's a lot of detail. leaving. That's probably oriented Arlington's our prices but. When we get to Q. and I. To charm and please also reach out. To myself I, as I said, we've been handling queries and we've been engaging people. So please do reach out to planning to be involved all Eva Davis. Thank you. Thank you very much. Show very good for both of you to begin here from someone was general manager for the Striking Information Industry Association. Gripe. Thank you very much. Thank you out this opportunity. Thanks to all saw standards strive to dominate. For the lady. The spice, it'll be short presentation non slots. In wausau matters through industry lanes, I'll give some data on the scale of cyber attacks industry to putting some context talk about why reconditioned on Sada, and then I'll finish on the stand his task bulls and what that means from an IT by perspective. So. I'm hearing about. This webinar the IDA by was formed nine seventy. A membership is diverse including many sommes including social security amount. I'm leading a striding isis used to tell companies as well as a multinational software vendors donaldson. It provides local a multinational cloud platforms and professional services firms. Marymount I'm used to ensure we wet co-operatively in practically governments to ensure I understand increasingly complex indicate connected digital economy. To promote policies support economic growth drops in exports, as well as policy debates on areas like digital privacy, privacy and standards. We need to move on from calling Australia's economy digital economy as we now digital the core of our industries with more tech jobs. Now being cried at sort of the tech industry itself. Security in resilience critical to memphis the data that we do have indicates the style and constant sight of Saba threats industries, facing these drawing Sauber Security Senate evidence before Senate estimates. In March, these guys mean sought into the sky when it and this is quieting data scenes. One July last year the ICS say has responded to a one thousand trump's in seventy security incidents and an average of more than five incidents put. Following the establishment of the ICS's new online saw Viacom reporting tool report saw on one July twenty, nine, thirty, six, thousand reports of saw, the crime been received. That's an average of hundred and forty five reports today or more than one report every ten minutes. The. SKYLINE IMPACT SABA connectivity in dry during the july-september quarter twenty nineteen was day touting it Sava Communist dry report time individuals and small committee men across his self reported. Losses to report cyber of more than eight, hundred, ninety, thousand dollars, H. Die Representing estimated annual losses to saw twenty million. Remember this is reported data the actual this I would actually love high. Many of cool would require the ransomware attack, which rightly affected this business revenues and its reputation. This is a timeline stock warning industry nation type, these issues seriously the ics the also closely talk at the behest in relation to this ransomware incident. You can also say in the slot to racing examples reported Sauber's incidents has targeting supply chains defense often guiding opt to small companies with more lax controls and government reports rushing militia saw activity aimed at carpet vaccine research. So. Universities Logistics, companies, Utilities, banks governments innocent as all nine targets. This is an issue all companies by large and small Dada shy drying companies. Institutions are under threat every minute of every. Industry nights to be aware of the data breaches game that was established in February, twenty I tend. To improve consumer protection bed security standards for protecting coastal information. The livestock from the is say, which is the Office of the Strand Commission Commissioner House the six month period between July and December twenty nine and nineteen percent increase the number of data breaches recorded. This is obviously pretty covid and wishing to say what the next report Chai's. This report shows bottom teddy seven branches were notified under this game up from four hundred, sixteen, the previous six months. Militia. Criminal tax including solder incidents remained the leading Kohl's data breaches accounting to sixty four percent of OLMEC Sought criminal tax account the sixty, four percent of all notifications. Data breaches resulting from human error, the captain thirty, two percent down from thirty, four percent. Health sectors again, Haas reporting sick to notify twenty two percent of all branches Vala Humira Kohl's forty three percent of data breaches in healthzette gut compared to an average of three, thirty, two percent sorry or Russell vacations. Although acid talking about Slavia resilience in industry. So let's define. They saw security in Savi resilience are distinct concerns and understanding difference by industries came Katie preparing effective response to threats. The misconception that security program can substitute dissolve your resilience is potentially disastrous. While saw, security focus on painting attack is out saw resilience Instead of my mayhem caused by taxes do manage to penetrate networks. Assad threats evolve some uh, suggesting that softish shooting writings a poised to become as important a factor as credit writings making finally to implement it professionals saw resilience program. Than reputational risk. A thoughtfully designed saga reveals pregnant will become not only competitive advantage but are sustained growth. Back again to that tall case study. And Martin suggested, there should be full FIS. Stage to a sovereignty links rang wick preparation detection response, and recovery that can enhance an organization's capacity to sustain operations through Assad or attack while minimizing disruption reputational harm. Kinda across expires some organizations lack of business continuity planning, but also shine Bassem companies and governments cannon have digital business models and remind is working. Previous reasons for not being able to do certain tasks digital late have been brushed aside with the digital fist as Yanni solution to be Siphon remind working. The shift is a guy how critical at digital back by needs to our economy. It, only in the pandemic the IDA by launch with support from Federal Ministers Andrews and Fletcher these giant Business Continuity Website which guy that system. The free tools and resources to enable businesses to move online at spayed and safely. Unfortunately for many of our same as particular software security in resilience to obstacle and winning the supply China's becoming increasingly connected between businesses, we require that assault Hodgin. Initial side of the pandemic before the curve is flattened governments waking industry feedback on the effects of nineteen. Ninety impact on three key areas, jobs, future investments, supply giants. idolized survive members and this part of our pay for what type. Gotten through especially Kane on any data and insights to provided leading indicators were Sean a lot on what was happening economy classy to win. It was happening. We needed to move quickly, and so we ride Ivankov building strategies digital future wild in around six weeks. So he can show the government's could use it as a valuable input to the decision making. The Fifty Pied report provides a forty recommendations which group in the short made him a long-term placing on the recommendations of governments. We deal with five with a dedicated chapter on the white paper and soft security soft skills development. Saga resilience as well as looking more costly to King Street or transport any SADA resiliency. The pandemic hall onto policymakers and governments the importance of secure supply giants by the internationally and domestically the role of transplant frights system was shown to be a critical yet the daughter in supply chain systems is not what it could be and the resilience you the network needs to be looked that with fresh eyes when operations at pull's and distribution centers up becoming increasingly connected in subject to Sabra tax could shutdown pulse and distribution centers as I become increasingly many estimates have become increasingly digitize virtually Ivan ought to move their businesses and workforces on result Stranded sommes contributed fifty seven percent through striking JD, pay. Significant contributed to private sector employment. Yet, that will lace prepared for business continuity from pandemic and the resulting Christian Saba threats. Small businesses are gonNA forty three percent of solve a crime by twenty two small business affected by ransomware unable to continue operating. Smaller organizations do not have the skills to support mean capacities the logic counterparts which producer ability to compete. Meeting Operations Online spies into existing SABA threats. One recommendation is the Federal Government's twenty twenty cybersecurity strategy looks accelerate Zielinski between understand is not in its current remained as well as suggest government look at incentives to upskill and support maze saw the security requirements. These drying Sauber Security Strategy Action Plan Twenty six day cold for strong defenses to ensure network since Houston's to compromise resilient texts however does not extend to support business continuity of resilience. As such we on the twenty twenty, two issues of resiliency rather than just security. Of course since we released the pipe securities become front and Center for the Federal Government, as well as New South Wales governments welcome touching forty million dollars with mister talked about earlier in Sava, capability and skills with which we voice full, of course. You Industry. Advisory Panel to the twenty twenty strategy released its social security report last week. And it's full number of our what recommendations. With the support with report suggesting five K policy, deterrence, prevention, detection, resilience, and investment. Site filings las lobby plays tonight. Alexis on standards and this hospitals you idolized place to be out of work with New South. Wales government ministers wwl sovereigns dance USTRALIA. Global Standards and harmonisation of standards is critically important to our industry. Strike is not Saulat and what is a Hakka connected digital world businesses are increasingly adopting cloud by technology accelerated this giant and we saved option of digital technologies and business platforms by government industry is a really positive development. Sava standards, aguival issues, and we should leverage existing international capabilities in standards wherever possible. However, we also need to address the by seeks many data in tax and as big prevented by cyber hygiene thing. Claude. Result we saw early about WACO links, human elements I. think we can do some by seeks to relieve the standards finite supply chain security's important as soon as strongest weakest link. We've seen some defense contract the spice for many years where a small company with SABA arrangements he's talented is the most sophisticated government agency illogic company in the Sinai keeps not allowed to school. Tonight the similar products should apply to be assisted direct. by accepts to address you saw the Hodgin she become expected. To has a digital economy resulted this important standards, Hamas Asian, WACO understanding of the importance of software security and resilience across the industry normalizing way possible standards and setting standards. Benchmark will least capability when she will be up to secure supply jets and a secure economy. Thank you very much. Thank you very much salmon. Some early questions he's nearly one from Sarah is. To sorrows time He. Had, a we support the strategy and the Task Force itself what? What Job Miss Might Message to industry into the audience. Yeah. I might be minister at that question to you. What would you like the support debate APP to this particular Task Force from industry? All look obviously the the most important thing is to identify the pine points and nine the solutions like it's it's very easy to identify pine points. Agency still may all the time what the problems are I I asked him. So what what are will solutions so that. It's a big things and if you could dive into the task force on the various issues with again, ours Asian regionalization, Hamas -ation than that would y'all to tonight show we can get through his foster normal. Stopped me the solution not the problem I I suppose there's another one intense, the engagement board standards the question he will Australians who contribute already to international standards being bought into the task force as well. Obviously, there's a lot going on. In. This contribution at might be dead either to you. Yeah right question and the answer is yes and it'll happen through one formerly onto the actual committee on on cybersecurity within Standards Australia The second thing you'll be happy to hear is in terms of the task force, you also have people contributing disarms points to the ministers point around resilience. So actually gone and reached out to the last week and most people who are helping right global standards with the UK and Canada, and the Lai are actually GonNa be problem fold. So yes, as short outta thing I, would ask people to do themselves to be. As minister say it is to reach out to both myself a pariah. You can come back quite easily an insert yourself in the mix because you will be invited to the roundtables. You absolutely have a complicates a face there. Did. went to that question and the Parana as well is also acquitted himself the strategy you did touch on the sites and this body of work, and obviously we're talking to stanton to strategy is well, what is the framework the reaching out to style in? How would other sites Apache involved in along with that? There's a a presentation on the frameworks interesting how they can have input into the framework This rage out in this regard. And that's that's a great actually. So what we're finding already with some of the sick oral roundtables and tosses that we've set up that we're having conversations with is that those individuals are really from across Australia and so one way of being able to provide input is, for example, in the defense roundtable given that South Australia has caught you know quite a cluster down south astrid that could be one mechanism but I think probably towards the end of A. Round type additions, and when we are kind of reporting to the toss false itself perhaps at that point, we can certainly I've been up an opportunity for us to be able to talk to the other statin territory governments and get them on board. I'm actually gonNA throw across the minister. The minister has also been thinking about how he might be able to utilize some of the committees that haze all at that national level as founded the apple, two Winston Lines and antic- Thanks for on us on a member of the Australia. Dada. Digital Council and I know that since the national cabinet has been formed Donna promises indicated that if say that moving forward and he's interested in. Getting, rid of all of the other CO Exalt? Councils. And try and drive everything as much as we can through the the national cabinet. But he did indicate that these a preference for the doctrine digital council to going in some form because of the importance in it's doing. So all definitely agitate the through the dotted council which assist Ju- robot cheese from federal level. Of got my counterparts in cites and territories, and on this is going to be put because the problem with saw deries up at a federal level for example, is about forty five minutes have a planet. So and when it's broken up into different places, like that is hard to get ladyship on it. So altron. That through that body. Thank you much knits. Another question which is interesting could salmon is will assuming intend to the task bulls presuming controls or s ally frameworks service level agreements will control frameworks some Ivy on behalf of industry. Weighty. thinking. Street. would be thinking that graphic controls. The word regulation has been touched on. Yet just controls the service agreements. Anything industry would best fit around that top framework but which one? Yellow thanks for the question I think West and surprise Santa's drives approach guys these issues and weightless support that from an industry perspective we WANNA take global standards and used as possible while missing many companies work across international boundaries and what you don't want us to have different standards in one country and another standard in another country like we don't want to have even stance new South Wales and south Hamas, across industries, which is what which want to do. He saw the short answer is we don't WanNa, regulatory touch we can government's tightening a response to slaughter. And out over any and all they be. She's very topical at the might is the road approach insanely leveraging global standards, and HOMINOID sake industry we want have of prescriptive regulatory approach. I'm Parana. The security maturity model is being adopted. That's been adopted at the US defense level as well. Is that something you think? Everyone should be looking at and being on having understanding of of that particular model that seems to be a real draw a particularly if you're going to be touching on defense industry's at all. Yeah absolutely. If you're interested in selling to defense all potentially any government agency in the US. Than the same say will likely be put on us in their minimal climates absolutely take a look at it. We'll be actually drawing up a seminal. I think it's more morning in fact. On yet so absolutely here and listening on, and if you've got any questions, just come to US enough that that is definitely one of the that we'll be considering pot of defense found titled Hostels. Right. One other question I've got, there is no other questions from the out here just at the moment inside is not questions in in will. Opt One question from the media. We actually there was a report came up last week that the media sectors sir thanks subject of his later media they will media websites. In there, Ivan Really Day looking at running a media roundtable at all in this. From. Arise that from the awareness, the language that is used by media. the why that journalists report on software security getting rid of the the hootie approach and trading as business digital risk approach. I'm saying notting. Who would like to take one? Look on unhappy to die that in response to these questions as Beijing. Yes. because. I think everyone on the task minister to get things done and so this is an appetite day. We're happy to talk to you I should add we've actually stolen some of Salmon's wedding because it's so great around digital backbone. So you mentioned the media, but we've actually gone into cloud and sunshine look at what does that mean dot says the big thing for the government. So we've we've actually Grow intensive tests and we would welcome media discussion to. Absolutely, right. We're down to the final minutes. There's one question he touching on duty beyond is a few more and I think GAM that something will come back to Scotland. We're GONNA have considering with down to the last few minutes minister. I think closing statement at depending on how long would lie organic get that either to. H of you, but maybe a Koto action what would you really like to say in? What should the expectation be of APP COMES FROM? This Task Force Would thanks like I want this task force embellishes like there. This is so important ought to the future success of our nation. I can't emphasize it enough like when you look around the world in terms way the giants of moving it's all in the digital spikes. If we don't anchor this down as I as a bedrock brass is moving forward than we have absolutely wasted an enormous opportunity for right nine please give it your best. He is in. As humanly possible because I can tell you from New South Wales Cup spirited we beck doing with two hundred forty mingles with money and we resume as you will alice today. So please give it your best. Half a billion dollars is a good done goodbye to stop for the. Shia look we'll get into claws on that I think for the audience. They're awesome handouts. They are available that you can download. We have a copy of the. Building. Straddling digital featuring nine saying well we have the digital report from Asada. The recent report that was mentioned is plays report on the Strand saw security strategies they. Side with while having a look at the twenty two strategic updike does talk about industry in industry type of development. The opportunity while there's one or two minutes I just arrived in any other comments or questions for the panel that we can follow up lighter. We also run the savage beating weekly podcast. We've had a run Gucci, they're the I W I. have been watching to some time and you're getting match Iraq did nothing good on you just keep going of the membership that we had on APP with CASTA. Last week, we are running India series. In if you WANNA get some insights into the New South Wales is doing at by dinning the way ahead. Mr. Rookie Ben China the Triton Investment Commission touring the. And he speaks very obviously cushing they need to as as government startup community here in security very worthwhile listening to is also a copy magazine about album at infant tomorrow talking about standards looking at technical auditing standards in the India series bringing India Australia and the region with the at linking to eat Malaysia really looking at what standards are in Psalm mentioned getting that regional approach and that's how we wait Tyke it. So on that note, we are going to be rod on time very much ship to the honorable victim Annella, the municipal customer service for the new. South Wales Government for Meta they development for Asada of. The strategic advocacy manager at the Australian standards and saw Bush the General Manager for the I aa I thank you very much for joining us on this particular session and we will end up on that night. Recordings will be available in heaven disciples coming out of that. Thank you very much be a time.
Is Gladys Berejiklian home free?
"This is an ABC podcast. What can you tell anybody about it? Not even you caused his friends and family because it wasn't a normal relationship it wasn't a normal. It wasn't. It wasn't. He wasn't my boyfriend he wasn't anything of Nicer. Certainly hoped it would be a didn't want to introduce anyone to to my close network unless it was the real deal and I, didn't feel it was at the time. HAVE THEY BEEN TS? Privately, absolutely. Just privately. Yeah. Look are not harding on Byu because that's what I'm here to do. I think we would be mad to sacrifice the best premier we've had in. So long I've is something like the Gang live you hanging the I will stay strong I will thank you and hopefully the next time we chat, we'll be talking about other matters correct. U. conn Imagine Gladys Julian is enjoying these interviews. But it's fair to say the questions she's been copying from the media for the last few days about her relationship with Daryl Maguire could've been a fraction tough on. The New South Wales Premier's host while on again off again, Patna is now the subject of a second investigation this time by a federal department and there's no end in sight. So is gladys. And going to keep a job. I'm Angela. Pierre and I'm Steven Smiley and today on the signal the PR rehabilitation of Gladys Bertie Cleon is there were still to come or could she emerge stronger at? High. Latitudes. Has. No one wants Kyle Sandilands to compare his sex life to yours live on his FM radio program. But if you're gladys bear jacqueline right now, it is all part of the job almost specifically keeping the job you and I. Think the premium and call SANDILANDS COULDN'T BE TO A. Polar opposites right. But then I was like always having sex with seven people at the radio station when I? And we'll let the record I can't break. Never, say never. But. It has made me Much more empathetic and much more understanding of people circumstances because you never imagine yourself to be in a particular situation, then it happens to you and you think, how could this happen to me? Now that interview was just one of a string of appearances by gladys buried. In the Sydney media yesterday, as well as premier does what she can to hang on and the last time we talked about this story on the podcast the incredibly unexpected news that she had been in a close personal relationship with a former MP being investigated over corruption allegations was only dials. We are now almost awakened and things have actually started looking up gladys in although the same cannot be said for Daryl Maguire but Sean Nichols reporter with the focus. program. A in a previous life I worked as the site political editor for the city money. For seven years and have been pretty much covering state and federal politics for the last twenty years also. Okay. So in that time, you might have come across Daryl Maguire what do you remember about him and you know I guess what we might call he's extra-parliamentary business activities show. The first time Maguire Chemicals anybody's right are really think was when he was appointed government whip by fuller. Premier Barry o'farrell just Australia one pal back in two thousand eleven and so that was quite a powerful position. In the pop in the potty and it's seen as a library of love because high-heeled Glamour of being a minister or even a parliamentary retreat, but it's clutural to the discipline of political parties. So that was showed that. Liberal Party. New South Wales and the Crimea had a lot of fights in Darrell. But why is somebody who is very organized and had the respect of the troops I suppose Having said that the on that? For the next. Nine years that he was in parliament we of call seem very very infrequently and in addition to being a government whip, we're now learning about some quite complicated and it seems in some cases, unsuccessful attempts at at kind of property development and business on the side. What's the fuller picture getting? Now of of the kind of Mandera Maguire was an eas so the evidence shows that Maguire was busy. Making deals with trying to conduct US opposed between private businesses who needed assistance Regulatory or otherwise from the New South Wales government and the decision makers in the government and the bureaucracy, and he tried to take a cuss or commission for his role in doing that. Daryl Maguire says he was just doing some favors for friends yet to try and help people not to help people. But in this top phone call with the business association, it's clear. The former New South Wales parliamentarian had something to gain from much of the hill he offered. He's developing mates the what the title by price. Three, hundred million. That's pretty good showing. Some of the tabloids are referring to him as Dodgy Daryl Yeah I don't know of any of his colleagues knew him as that. But in terms of how things. How bad things might become Daryl. Maguire now I mean we've heard just this wake the home affairs and now investigating this sort of cash for visas scheme that same to have a hand in in these ladies is the member for Waga from his parliament. House. Office he ran a Chinese visa scam on multiple occasions you receive thousands of dollars in cash from his weighing in house. He arranged for visas, for Chinese, nationals were supposed to work in local OUAGA businesses but didn't scheme at least in that point in time. Involve long to immigration officials. Correct. I mean, do you think this ends up with Daryl Maguire potentially facing criminal charges? What? For him look I think it doesn't get to saw this. As as you said this, the trying to get a cut out. Out of vest moving story property deals which let us go Japan has said publicly is necessarily An offense for an pay and pays allowed to run businesses on the side in while they were parliament as long as everything is declared now. The wind has admitted that he didn't declare his involvements in the business that was that he was seeking to use the monetize physician it's play. So that's A breach of the parliament free rules but. Serious is the. Allegation that he was running a visa scam, a cash visas, scams or list was potty to us. which is now being investigated. We learn by the Department of Home Affairs. We are assisting are at their request with their enquiries and I'm sure that we will get to the point of. What can't have any seizes related to how many physical persons I've what time period and if that's The material too I tax deliberations but more particularly from the point of view of federal law. If it's putting it to the enforcement of federal laws will be taking action I can show you independently and in any event now that essentially could be. A case of fraud. So yeah. Political Koreans Obviously he's reputation. Is completely trashed What happens some you're on you can only imagine it didn't worse charged. Now obviously, the big story here is the relationship between Daryl Maguire Forma backbencher and the New South Wales Premier got US spirit. And and the nature of that relationship. The premise as it was close personal There are some stories around at the moment suggesting that she at one point was thinking about marriage which seems to call other relationship a little differently. What do you make at the moment of the way? The Sydney media in particular is covering the premise entanglement with Dowell Maguire US been fascinating to watch So at the very beginning. Yours expect to Sydney Morning Herald's take a slightly hot line because they've very, very big. On probity and integrity issues, very strong supporters of Caq and so. That's what happened and at that point the other influential pipe is such as the daily. Telegraph and the. Australian. was sort of a little bit on the fence I think from memory. But what we saw of the weekend is some that start to change, and we we started to see the classic Madiun Management Strategy kicking the place the premier does assault sit down interview with the Society Calmest of the Sunday Telegraph not photographs focusing very much on the personal on the private life and. Not. Going anywhere need the political. That was followed up on Monday morning which a a Chech- we've been forum onto G. Who has been extremely strong in his backing of Lettuce Birgit glance throughout this whole. Ordeal is it fair to say that you were a bit of a novus indicting? It's fair to say that I would probably on average have less experience than the average person but again, that's an excruciating to talk about. Apart. From the friendship he provided what else did you find appealing in him? I think come. This is the army when you when nine on forever decade You. Know in my line of work I'm very careful about who into my circle and because at nine hundred Ak that was radically appealing because I thought I knew my colleagues I. Think I think a lot of my colleagues if instructors will cause a lot of us knew long period of time and none of us picked up on the extent of what he was up to and and that's that's I think not. To shock, may it shocked a lot of people? So it's been fascinating to state that Chai. So the government is trying to bring into its consortium parties that that sought of the media, the modal press straight in his been doing some pretty tough reporting on this though it has has to sell. It's more about getting the tabloids on side and the and the tabloid Radio, the tabloid media on radio on side. which in? Yourself Wild. SA- decades in decades for buzzed of politics has been the parliament Capon side is she going to stay Tau Yeah and if we want evidence of the breadth of this strategy we need to do is look at the fact that the prime you're actually appeared on a FM Station Kiss FM with Kyle Sandilands who asked to some pretty as we said some pretty seamy questions I mean it was Very kind of embarrassing interview I mean because. Strategies is. I think so look. Do. You think it's Think that's working. A blonde. Saad pay the wind. Blew. We can be blindsided by someone that you. Love and trust. Everyone at died stage different situations, but it's never easy and. Sworn off love now never again. I, just I just can't see it happening but anyway, that's another point. T's what's important sommes and it's always been important and I think this is why people I'm lucky that the state seem to understand me neither on he for them and you know what? My? My for the papal and for the public and I'll continue to do that and that's Why you have the support and and people are extremely passionate when it comes to supporting because you had done such a wonderful job. Look. The whole reason that gladys. Berry. Is. Out there so strong front for the moment is that she has got the support of. Most influential colleagues in gunman. So the factual heads of behind her and the reason behind her is because then looking at polling, which says, she's really popular the people really like the and this whole spin that they're putting out about this just being a case of the boyfriend these working it's being lapped up by the votes. Right and the benefit to the government of a focus on the romantic and personal here is that it takes attention away from questions about how much glad. Spirit Actually knew of Daryl Maguire is activities and particularly what she meant by some of the comments on the tap phone calls that were played at the Independent Commission Against Corruption hearing last week and the Good New William William Kills me dynamic the. Hutley as possible, but go now. Could. Not about that did. You do not. Pay Color. Sort of. Trading very much with kid gloves the question of. The Niger, all the premise relationship with Daryl Maguire. Now, this is really important. Because in the ministerial code of conduct, its sites if you in an intimate relationship with some body and it doesn't define Then there shouldn't disclosures you have to make to pile or to or to your cabinet will to the pump of premier cabinet, and that's the whole reason that gladys buried in stopping short of describing relationship down it's intimate and very. Very, clearly, citing it as a close personal relationship which stopped short of banging people dancing around it because they don't want to ask the really unpleasant questions that normally a journalist would get sacked Austin of a premium particularly as a female premium. Chats was Daryl Maguire spending the night actual harm How many times these sorts of questions go directly to whether or not it wasn't intimate relationship I would ask. Far As none of them have been Austin quite session which not not but I think the really important answers. Deserve. But in the absence of new answers to those questions how is gladys vertically future looking? Five days on from the last time we talked about this on the podcast. It seems like the tide has really shifted quite a bit for gladys sporadically in. In terms of how at risk Jobe is. What are the ongoing threats in the Potty at the moment? In terms of. I mean she out of the woods yet. I think it's everything's very much in the balance of an inch. So. She's got through the good news for Gladys. Is that she she got through Daryl Maguire evidence. Without Huma completely blowing up. Having said that she still has question Chime in the New South Wales From Tuesday to. Thursday this week. And anything can happen. We also have the question of. Fodder report now that want come down till next year cy they usually tight Kuantan that's going to be critical because. When time as reports I look at things like. The. The recipe albeit evidence that was given bogged people involved in the inquiry. So they'll be looking very closely at whether or not. Supporting plan landed east. I believe. What the premium was signed. Under oath in the witness books. More broadly I kicked does nights findings. Directly related to. The corruption inquiry. Looking to. Die Chan might adverse findings against people involved even if they're not. Strictly under investigation from the outset and adverse finding, I catch would almost certainly end gladys birgit glands. Premiership. But conversely. The. Completely in much site we believed everything she said she was a fantastic witness. There's absolutely no evidence that we can find that she had any knowledge of this or anything to do with. And that kind of funding will just strengthen her. Ladyship and. On she goes premier. So we're at this juncture. It's possible that all of this brings Gladys Burji clan down. But at the same time, it's possible that it actually enhances her popular. Solidifies her with vouchers and try and prolonged career. That's right. This is. It's very much ballots. Which? Quite some months. ooh, that's the signal. For today. If you WANNA draw the line, our email is the signal at ABC dot net. And we will catch. Tamar. By You've been listening to an ABC podcast discover more great ABC podcasts, Live Radio, and exclusives on the ABC listen. APP.
BONUS: Conversations 17
"Hi I'm Alison Sandy on bronze anymore. Sally late and is taking some personal time today. Obviously it's been a massive year for Sal and she just wanted to thank everyone. She asked me to convey her Her best wishes to everyone for a great Christmas and to thank everyone for their support. This this podcast and Having so many Get behind us. And the millions of people get behind her as helped her and made her strong. Oh she was already strong obviously but hoped With some of the I guess the toughest times as as you is. What happens when you lay yourself? Bear In such a way. Vira podcast or any sort of You know A massive media production. It really really does You know it's not an easy thing to do so sally just wanted to thank you all and let you know that She's very grateful for everything and we it's GONNA be great year coming up and that support will certainly be something that she'll she'll need near the shore. Yeah it's been a massive year and it's all happened so quickly if you think we just launched this podcast on April first. Obviously we've been working months prior to that since light light twenty twenty eighteen and But to think how quickly it's evolved an escalated into what it has. It's it's it's exactly what it's everything we hoped it would be more inside. You and I know it's so rare to get an investigation to result assault and this kind of activity and esscalation particularly by the authorities. And I'm talking about the police and the CORRINA and All of the different. All of the different strands have come together in a way we never could have predicted particularly the online help. We've got an almost. We'll be talking about that today. Being shared at all on that website lose for an amazing two thousand nine hundred eighty. I mean this is. This is in Utah of investigation. One that's been played out in Real Thanh and and It's the army of people listening and watching and researching and helping here in Australia and around the world has been the difference and Sally Being Sally of course wants to personally and individually thank and talked to every single person. There's now six million downloads. She she. She can't stay on top of that that kind of of a woman response. which is both extremely gratifying but also much appreciated? But she she certainly drawed and she does need some Thomas. He's got a young family. She's got three young kids once this thing and you'll hear more about her role in the lead to step aside. I but I'm glad he's taking time out over the holidays Christmas to reconnect with the family. She still does have absolutely. And and you know One of the things that I have loved about this podcast is the evolution And certainly we We're going to touch upon upon some amazing aspects of That have evolved in the next episode. You know as a result of the investigation. Because I feel like we're really just building up. Now to this massive crescendo. which will I guess heartfully Provide answers to all questions But you know it. It's just basically a bit by bit still and We had A. We have a really big part of the puzzle in the next step aside which comes out. Monday saw Monday the twenty third of December. So that's That's very exciting to be but The the why it's evolved. The family dynamics You know something. We touch upon here in the next episode as well as Sally's relationship with the current family members and how that has resulted. How how that's changed or You know just strengthened from this podcast And it's you know I we've talked about this a lot. You know when people listen to the story and and one of the wonderful things I I love is that so many people have really Embraced Sally Sally and her story and her journey But eats it's really. It's really something to be the one laying it out bail alight Biden and exposing yourself In on such a massive scowl so anyway I'm looking I'm very much looking forward to You know having everyone. Everyone listened to the next episode. Because you are going to be infiltrate chrome okay so we have in the next. Except so we have the A new document which we're not going to tell you what it is but it's It's certainly answers a lot of questions but it also raises more questions. Christians as as with many of the pieces of the puzzle. We find with this because I don't think we realized the puzzle was but it's it's really It's something that I will get a lot of dialogue from from Ellison's what were your thoughts when new sort Brian without giving too much way to talk about it too much exhilaration. Obviously we tried a number of avenues to get hold of this document. humint which will probably succeed but hadn't succeed yet and of course it was one of our online slough managed to get a copy of this document document which is like stepping backing on to the crucial point where everything changed full title Marian and Sally and the family Pity GonNa flip out when they say these As yeah without giving away too much we we have experts pouring vert and regardless of what Di Fond. There's two distinct outcomes that it The dime determinations. I'm Mike Two things where we're looking at. And regardless of which way they fall this will tell us a lot about what what was happening at that. Crucial Tom in Marion's disappearance so you exhilaration and confirmation that this investigation is doing exactly what we hoped. It would in harnessing new methods and the talents of the waters. Possible range of people to find the clues that can help solve this mystery. It really is a testament to how how everyone's come together to help to contribute and to might this investigation the water these onset. And I've been saying this for a while we're going to find out what happened to marry and this when you see what's leading episodes sixteen. I think anyone what he's been lifting any doubt. We'll also be that we're going to find out yeah absolutely The good thing about this document is eight. We say there's so many unanswered questions. Some good lines of inquiry that can be traced and that we would expect that New South Wales police chasing so That's that's one of the good things that they have some obviously very good leads and while they not giving too much away at the moment they you know that they are At the moment since they got a new officer-in-charge particularly that they going quite strong And and also since the News Carta determined that it was her jurisdiction And it was a new South Wales place jurisdictions. That's might be difference. We still have the the inquest decision. That might be made into next year. But that's going to be very probable. Yes you just mentioned the we knew officer-in-charge now that's another thing we're looking at these new episode. Sally has amid with the new officer in charge inch of her case. Now consider that she. I went to the barn by police station in life. Nineteen ninety-seven after becoming worried about him. not syncing and being told after calling the bank that someone had accessed her account barn by and your call from earlier episodes solely went down there with a pitcher. You walk around bar and by eventually went to the police station and say look. I think my mom's missing now that triggered even I sound from coin was living in Queensland and so it was marrying at the John that triggered I new South Wales police occurrence not an investigation initially with one officer then in the months that followed another officer was involved but very little was done and the assumption was made this was a three times divorced middle-age woman who'd walked away from your life then lie dormant for many years and Detective Senior Constable Gary Sheen at Barn by police on top of these big caseload took look it upon himself to investigate these guys more thoroughly and on Earth all those extraordinary developments that marrying a change to nine. I'm to floor. Abella remained kill and that hypothesis had come back into the into Australia and not lift and that he even folded up at Tepe that there was a body buried in armidale small town in New South Wales and went down and did I rudimentary search of that. What he believed to be the property so there was a flurry? Sorry activity and we're talking now between two thousand nine two thousand eleven but then it also the type it off and Sally discovered that a moment comet never actually been put on the National Missing Persons Register and have been taken off the New South Wales Missing Persons Register without knowledge so shamed in the background. There was something happening. That people were away that among was missing but really she languished language obscurity for years and years until to finally sally met you. Ellison and the lady vanishes was born and now celine selley recently came to Sydney with a daughter. And you'll hear elit selling describing the episode and you can hear words what he's what you make civil this. She came down to Seaney to State Crime Command at paramount which is about announced Dr West of Sydney the geographical heart of Sydney. That's the Kurdish Jinxed Inter so that's the center where the police accountant could as king was shot by that fifteen year old terrorist for Jabbar a couple of years ago and we all remember how terrifying that and that fifteen year old was was shot during that encounter that that is now nine Ching Police Center. And that's where it stike RAHM commanders and following that how homicide review into the case. Thanks to investigation investigation. A new officer in charge has been placed. And I'll tell you what we loaded up sally. With all of the research and clues and suggestions jains and names and contacts that way code. She took off her information. She spent the entire day in there with a team of detectives dedicated to solving the mystery of what happened to him. Taika nearly twenty three years but It was a giant leap forward. In how how this case is being handled and all kind of a state have well it went and how much it means to sell and on on on giving away all of its occurred during that meeting selley talks about it at length in the new episode. So keeping your after that that's That's quite quite something to behold enough also a thirty minute story that'll be on facebook video story because we're filming everything so you can see all of this all of the things we're talking about on our facebook page in video form as well. The episode has the longer version. But they You can you can see in here from more people were talking about and you can see the document. We're talking about in that thirty minute story. That will be available when the available absolutely so. It's very exciting exciting and I have to say we We just With that time line also just remember that marrying going missing nine hundred ninety seven she she yes she was put on the New South Wales Missing Person Register but that wasn't into ten years lighter. Sorry in two thousand and seven and it was only there for three years so What was it to US anyway? But it wasn't very long information I should know it by now. Certainly we We pour over enough but we do have a time line as well if you haven't already seen it on our facebook page as well as You know all these information all everything that's happened so I know. Are we get a lot of questions at different stages about or did you take this that whatever but I can show you. Everything's being checked if you listen to allow episodes a lead. Conversations certainly guide through our facebook We have pretty much covered not to say. We don't want you to do that because I really appreciate what would come in and say. Oh yes there's like even a gentleman on the other day. I just wanted to let us know that he when he went to New Zealand on six he did need a passport. And it's yes that's true so that's good that was just in relation to Another mistry that we referred to but everyone it's just wonderful the amount of feedback we have and just that allison is like doing that. they like to I guess keeping touch because it's a very this is the other thing it's a very personal I think podcast personal lot more tangible than Than a a lot of other Mediums When you when you doing investigations so it's good to have that Close contact feel like you know we really do have that close contact contact without listeners. And that instant feedback and and Certainly even I. Sally tries to get back to everyone She also has a team of Her Super Sleuths sallies angels as we call them who help out as well June I WANNA say thank you to you for that. I want to show that Johnny because I did I do that already. Journeys journeys again come through we the goods in now. And you'll see that upset sixteen so in cat. I wanted to mention that too. Oh my gosh this is this is like a separate drama in itself So we got a So you know that. It happened Numb in early July. The at the hearing mccurdy L. E. July. It was a time was like a couple of months that was supposed to come back to us. I didn't So we got in touch with them and they said to us. There's going to be the decision by hi December thirteen and so December the Dane Road on nothing so I rang the following Monday. And they said Oh. Yeah Don't know about that. So they right to the registrar and it just said yes there was supposed to be a decisional indicating along those lines that We lead communicate that they would be decision by seven thirteen. Hasn't been We'll let you know when they will be a new one so that wasn't even set us a new date now. I followed phone up again as it could you. At least let us know then when the new new data of a of a decision will be made and nothing. So it's just I'm I'm just baffled with all of this in in I mean I realize with the big spotlight shining on this I Dunno I it certainly certainly You know my time dealing with Kevin Key captain V cat and all the different incarnations of these in every state these are the administrative tribunal I being in the New South Wales Civil and administrative tribunal. It's the place where it is part of the Justice System Court system. But it's the place where people go you to have met his hood by a senior member not not not a judge or magistrate who has the powers of a magistrate and to I'm present evidence argue their cases and then get a bonding decision And these are for quarrels between companies between individuals in our case between selling Liden and South Wales police requesting access to the fall on her mother. Because she's been missing for more than seven years and under their own protocols does she may be presumed in the next of kin should have access to that information if they want to get what happened to them. So as you say it's it's it's deeply frustrating and yes there is a big spotlight on them but they've nine that the whole time I mean they've given us a date of December thirteen and now this assigning all mobile will actually get back to you when we feel like it and it's not so much al frustration that matters. It's it's the it's the A J process and the The lives emotions and needs of all the people involved but Sally and the New South Wales police. We made a decision season so that we can. All the parties can move on and decide what to do next. We're being we're being frustrated again For no particular reason that we can. We can Z.. Y. and that's the thing New South Wales police also wrote to the New South Wales Cylinder Administer Tribunal to indicate that the time had lapsed Steve as to when a decision they they want to know. What's going on to the New South Wales? Police suggested that we've been somewhat critical of them. What we've been critical of the place? We deeply respect and marketplace. This is this is one of the most baffling missing persons cases in a strong history street. I'm not sure that any police department in Australia would have Would have handled these expertly and wealth from the get go. Because it's it's it's it's it was difficult to save for a longtime Eliane. Exactly what these walls we would. We obviously have raised questions about the. The process is the portfolio whether they will bother Balkan if a different outcome audit shaved but far from being critical. We just want them to get into everything I can to solve this. And and that's what I wanted to the Mala sole intent behind any of this and having this kind of Van Buick credit is frankly. We've moved past that. And I need to stick to their own Tom Lawns and hopefully we will get that decision very soon. So that all the parties ladies can get a move on. Well I mean the other thing. That's quite interesting. You look at the time of year. It is almost Christmas. You know are we're going to drop this Christmas Eve or is this just another month because it's Christmas. Yeah I mean you know. Let's have the decision to move on. That's that's it johnny on. I think we did give her a proper Shannon early. But Johnny is one of our Online whip salutes who is meticulous research and comes up with inventive wise to apply for and finding information that she's done so again with this document we've hinted at in the new episode episode sixteen but in addition online army and Sally Calls Jeremy She feels like she has an army of people helping. I mean it's it's it's global a couple of weeks ago I'm going to miss through the anonymous tip sought. WWW The lady vanishes dot org where you can leave leave tips Falls uploads tug automatically from a listener in Los Angeles is now. They discovered something in the public laundry. which reveal here because we're running these these down but it's it's a it's an extraordinary clue and the last place you would think to look and find something like this? I mean it's it's purely because someone has been listening to. The podcast is intrigued by the story has decided to do but if ferreting around in their own backyard and I've come up with something that frankly weekly we would never have come across. I doubt that these information this particular. Publication is exists anywhere in Australia. and Ah again. We're always looking for things that predate computers in the Internet because Marian went missing naughty naughty seven just before everything went online and and everything was computerized and digitized before eight passports before the widespread. Use of email al before all the electronic In devices between your your personal your medical your private your your banking. All of these things became enmeshed and of course will before social media. So we're always looking for those that the trial that can help us find Farrah's nucleus but which have been Oakley sitting there dome it for years so it really is that That wide reach of the podcast that unique format the podcast where people can just plug it in. Listen and think okay. I'm not going to have a look at that when I'm next to in the library and come across something remarkable so thank you to everyone John Joanie and to everyone out there and again anonymous tips. We've had some great anonymous tips for suggestions or theories just for information about Marian where you don't want to identify yourself. WWW dot the lady vanishes. Don't Brian I'm glad you mentioned that because the other thing we had one firm. I know we Norwegian listener just recently too. I just love this. I love the global. Reach that you have that. I've never experienced in my life before as a journalist and the twenty years. I've been doing it until during this podcast. And he said He was in Luxembourg in two thousand. I also they thought might be married and it was a bit of a distance. But it's just I just love. This guy is obsolete gone through. He's he's still not ricky. And if I can describe it for you. It's funny it isn't Marian the person in the follow up. He's too young but you can see the similarities. But it's a photo in Lanka town square in modern being luxy big city in the mind in the Mind Plaza they were where sally filming. Led she but It's it's a wide shot. And he's taking a photo of Friends on his part with someone in in the mind center of the frame time and distance behind over the shoulder there are three people walking through the plaza and one of them in the middle has long dark hair like Marian. She's slightly out of focus because of the distance but he's still he's actually thought to remember to think of saying that person and gone through these photos and zoomed in on that figure in the background walking past us. Marion photo bombed these dreams and and then he forwarded onto us so it was. It isn't her but it's lovely that that that God thought to send through the off chance the million to one chance that it could have been and he did say that and I just yeah I just lots of different people a a lot of our American friends to the same thing one gentleman was telling me about how he discovered it because he's wife Meredith Stralia when he was IV so he discovered when he was over here and him and his wife a huge ones and he's provided a lot of advice because interesting careers on my goodness like so many of our listeners have had. He's retired now but he was telling us about what he used to do. And it's just fantastic. I just love a love hearing all these stories and how we all kind of come together as part this podcast. It's just something completely unique to me now. I just wanted to just touch a bit more in relation to because we also have there are two true applications under the Government Information Privacy. Act that we've made the one that we mentioned before before in cat is documents we made that back in two thousand eighteen tain lost in Phnom in November two thousand eighteen and So those documents were for all the files on Marian prior to then because I would only go up to to to that date now we also made another application this year this year. I think it was about June on file since then everything but the police. You're having file on Marian since then since November two thousand and nineteen. Now that went to the decision came back in New South. Police denied US access. So that went to the information. Privacy Commissioner who arbitrates or make a judgment as to whether they think that that that decision was justified they came back and said it wasn't and said the agency has to make meaning New South Wales police has to make a new decision now. They had up until Tuesday this week to make that decision they say they have. I would tell me what it is. I said that amounted to sally. I spoke to Sally and Sally said I don't have anything So and they wouldn't tell me what it was because I mean presumably it would be Either they are going to make a new decision she not and if they're not going to make a decision we have to go back to the New South Wales Sibling Administrative Tribunal fighter. That yet again. So that's the other thing that we're we're waiting on just to find out and we'll have more news on that in the I mean there is a chance they'll give provides more documents in relation relation to that. I think what I've said is that you may kind of a blanket ban on all the documents as part of the new investigation that you're doing but not all those documents would be Exempt under under the direct. So we'll see what happens there but they wouldn't tell me even though we we actually have been obviously acting sallies behalf we paid for the application Just being I know that way saying we newsouth walls place. We don't I mean but they have the have been funny with me particularly really You know they weren't talked to me. The New South Wales meaning unit have said that. Don't WanNa talk to me. I mean as a result of all of this. And that's something that's very rare. I've AH in all my time in journalism working twenty years. I've never had a media. Just say that we're going to do with you. Actually that's not true. That was Brisbane City Council with a little neighbor but that was different. It's one was. This is the media unit not a politician so it was very odd. And I guess we'll just have to Miami. AM Queensland Alison. Read too much into won't talk to you but always be an issue. Well I always make sure I dress in my brightest close when I go down south particularly and I love their black. But and this on that The place Very much trading. Now these as and I have been throughout. Ah which is something we we. We did question but Trading it as an ongoing open investigation and open case. Certainly that appears to be the case. Now and and you'll hear more of the detail that needs new episode but as as Sally makes cle- if they ask Sally Sally is the next of Sally's marines daughter and potentially the next of kin. Jesus Sirkin so really need to be talking dealing to her not journalists like you and me hang on hang on let me let me just finish. I mean th the default position is we. We don't want to talk to the media. We put out press releases and media statements. Because there's so much at stake dealing with people's lives and the possibility of foul play in homicides charges and court proceedings and all this stuff gets sport up lighter much lighter so they they really have to err on the side of extreme caution so much that has been a bit of a bit of friction given the sustained intense investigation that that we've led but other willingly police have been very good and and on my very good relationship. She with the Police Media Unit in the South Wales. And the only really have to deal with that. I agree that they shouldn't be saying we're not talking to you. But on the other hand yeah but on the other hand the good news is that they are talking with Sally and sell his clear that if they ask her not all to share something for reasons of Maintaining the integrity of the investigation. She certainly won't be doing that. And as we sit into it we wouldn't want you to do that other. We're glad to have moved into the spice they are. We applaud their their Their decisions in recent times and we trust in their ability not to To to work this investigation and and find out the information that That way spanked him we know is is is just sitting there waiting for someone to discover it so I mean all of these things you know. That's the to and Fro Medium Police Down Chileshe Style and an individual or something like that. It's not a homey. That bizarre crave the mind. Mind thing is that the the the the the the real guy means that the investigations being is in the carriage of extremely talented professionals dedicated indicated to running down this case. And that's what happened so you know I couldn't be more thrilled with where we are with the New South Wales police. Frankly you know I'm really really confident about and how this is going and when you listen to besides extent. Yeah I I will make diva. But that is in relation to this for me It's nothing you know. I'm not taking. It doesn't matter about whether they want to do that. And it was really the fact that the jurisdiction issue because I argued lately that it was in the New South Wales jurisdiction. That's when they got their backs up. You know which is true of course and I stand by that but I think the whole point is yes they are dealing sally. Sally is happy with them now. back when we I was you know some criticism. It was back when they weren't dealing with sally properly so nine. That's what's made the difference. So yeah you're right. doesn't matter so much I mean there are some things that We you know we sally because Sally Kant on has been told talk about. They said that we have to go back to the media unit to see what we can actually report to our listeners and sometimes they're a little bit conservative with that but by the by and And I guess the other thing I'll say something always maintained it's not the fact that mistakes occur Which obviously they did occur in relation tomorrow investigation as twenty three years old now? I'm certainly mistakes. Didn't occur. They wouldn't we wouldn't be here but but it's not the mistakes happening because in a massive organization like New South Wales Place in the same light channel seven or any of you know we could say that about any massive organize. Actually mistakes occur things. Go wrong but it's what people do when they find out the mistakes have happened. The Catholic Church the Anglican Church. You could keep going and a lot of that. I find is that people do the wrong thing when they find out that the first instinct be corporations organizations associations is to cover up around all or get their backs up or whatever you know just for once. I just hadn't come yet. We stuffed up. We need to address this. You know what I mean and just just get on. Even if they didn't say that if I just went about that in the absence of that kind of MEA CULPA I think we're getting the very next base thing and the thing that matters most certainly to sally and that's the the The dedicated team And I've already said a lot about that but you'll you'll he Selling talk about that That very long meeting with the people now now you have carriage of this investigation and I think you'll listen as we'll be sharing her confidence in in what's now happening. Yeah and I guess the thing that usually what happens in this way around I guess the media plays out has such a big role is is that they are dragged kicking and screaming to we do the right thing. And that's what's happened here. They are now doing the right thing. which is great but that has been a lot of pressure since the podcast started? Certainly Sally didn't let wasn't dormant for twenty two years not doing anything to try to get movement on this. It was only since there was a spotlight. Sean Sean on this. They actually did something. That's one of the reasons we took. Look these on in the in the hope that it would have that effect and it has you know that's probably has taken a little longer and be more frustrating than we would've liked but as I keep saying I'm I'm I'm really grateful for where we're at at the moment and and edging closer to what's going to be. I think remarkable outcome because when you hear about at this winning see this document On in the episode It it it it one of the things that does is reinforce the belief belief that this investigation can and will find out what happened to Marion Bader. So yeah and the inquest. Mainly unless you know I was so excited about that very real prospect Because these are the things we can expect in the New Year one of them. Hopefully Caroni linquist and And just explain again broad. Now you've expanded a million times too so national just quickly for this the the coroner in New South Wales Medical Medical Examiner in the United States. So this The Coroner Ken hold an inquest. Where the cause of a person's death is not known or there is some doubt or confusion for instance if a person tanks around laugh but suspected someone might have been involved in the death? They might hold a coronial inquest. Just where the coroner sits very much judge Kohl's people to give evidence under oath thank subpoenaed documents and evidence and that is presented by hearing very much longer a court hearing and as at the end of that Inquest the coroner will go away. Look at all the evidence and then my guy coronial finding either to determine the person's death was due to this cause and this person was involved at this time in this place or they might make an open. Founding wanding having looked at all the evidence in heard from all the witnesses they might say well. It's not possible to determine what happened to this person as a result of that Then they can be the charges if individuals are found to have been responsible side. It really is a major step forward and and has the power to compel the production of people and documents in the form of the evidence of documents and other and other physical evidence to be presented for examination under oath. So that would that would be a huge dip towards funding. What happened? Well I mean the thing is just with these one one document. We finally got hundreds of documents that we're fighting for. All of these documents will be available through an inquest So it really will open this completely. It will become you know everything all the answers. We could possibly hoped for foreign more. I imagine we'll come out of this. I mean without knowing what are in the documents. It's hard to say You know to to gauge age. But it's not something that now we've got to the point. We we just so frustrated. Come on we just need to know we need to know and we fought so hard and we know what's going to happen so that will be probably the April next year. I think that the colonel make a decision on that because she's waiting for a place report when she gets that place report. It's reviewed reviewed by the homicide unit. That will which will be a brief of evidence once she looks at that she'll be determined whether inquest is necessary? Very which in my mind unless they know what happened to marry and it will be and And then the we from this. Yeah hold onto your hats and just I know Brian. I just wanted to say one of the thing with this scenario interview. Think of all the places you've been told by some of the places is the Shia Latest place was a jam brew pub which is in the next step aside which is the the pub run by Johnny Warren's Family Johnny Warren being being Marian first husband and He's nephew Jamie and his brother. Ross Warren now this is the lightest of an amazing journey. You and Sally of Tie Continue. Tell me just a little bit about that. Yes the jamboree puppies in Jamba Ru. It's a small town about two allows south of Sydney. Maybe two and a half and it's a beautiful hamlet style village it really is just a lovely lush Saif Saif old community. The PUB is One hundred eighty years old. I think and the Warren family both at pub up and it has a number of connections that area to marrying. Obviously Mary's first husband. Johnny Warren the the format captain of these joined soccer team Foods World Cup. Soccer Captain Though unmarried rod at the start of his meteoric rise to international fame and they They marine light a lived not far from the Jamboree pump Sally got to know the Warren family as a teenager so they stayed on good terms. I mean everyone. We've spoken into describes Marian as the love of Janis Lav and he's family Just lovely people and I've been great supporters of this investigation and these podcast because they want to know what happened to marry into. I mean Jamie Jamie warned. I mean marine would have been his art. Had you know. He's uncle and Marion Stein together. Either he's brother Remembers Marian will he was at the wedding They had a deep affection for her. And I've there is shocked and stunned as anyone on and desperate to know what happened at the circumstances of Marion's disappearance and frankly thrilled that this The lady vanishes this has cropped up and more than willing to sit down with Sally and Ella. And I'll tell you that there's something you know. It's it's one of those things where in journalism endless. You can get a lot done by the fine and over the Internet but nothing replaces going on knocking on someone's door and sitting down and talking with someone face to face and you just is cut through so many barriers because so much of our communication is nonverbal and seeing Ella and Sally with the warn family there was a very easy free flowing. transference of Emotion and detail from the different perspectives. About what time with at the time and it really does give you a a much fuller idea of who Marian was what. She was log what she was kind of in a way. That really you. You're not GonNa get any other y saw it was a I WANNA say a magical trip. It was. It's a beautiful venue. The Jamboree pump is a Sean to join Warren. The families kept all the clippings. And of course Marian is among those clippings on the on the walls of the Jamboree pub. It looks amazing and also joining us. There was John Economists. He was the the friend Tony Warns. Might who introduced marian to Johnny Amy and we're up to flesh out quantity more detail about the relationship Is Genesis and how and why They broke up. There's a lot more detail around the end of the marriage that we've managed to flinch out after speaking with him that you'll hear in these new episode and it does give you a much broader understanding of who married Walson. What she'd been through? And and that's that's one of the planes as we've been to and one of the paper. We've spoken to another person we spoke to in in this episode is selling his father Stewart. And he he copped lot of flack When he appeared enough I think very early on episode two it might have been and might some comments about some altercation? Asian that he'd had with married married and this was his opportunity to contextual laws. The Niger of their relationship and and selling father father have become closer as a result of this podcast. That's one of the delightful unintended consequences of this investigation but again it's it's extremely illuminating. Not only to get a better understanding of what's person Marion walls. But of course to get a much better understanding of what it was like his oncology what she might have been able to accomplish. You'll do if she put him onto it sucks. I'll Sinai more than talk about that. The other the other in the episode's extend into Monster Episode is someone that is going to be into all strategy and so. I don't know if we want to talk about that now. It could be the way we did in the last episode leaving that but these you might want to eighty s and look with that also. I just wanted to John you know. Yes Mary. The love of Janis Walk but also soccer was was the love of Johnny's wife so if anyone has any confusion as to why didn't I stay together. My feeling is is that soccer had a lot to do with it did it did. And now you asked me about the places we'd been these Jaundice quickly run through the lady. Well we're actually planned seven episodes and we thought we'd be visiting Salida Hyman in Brisbane. We did that because since then we've been to Bahrein by A lot three times when she's which is up being the Near the coast near the border of New South Wales and Queensland Very Beautiful Yep Yep we've been to Tongan which is small town where the cult him is Far Eastern Shawnee Colt operate Because we had information Russian Marian might have joined them. We didn't find it but that was a fascinating. I WANNA give us the kate at the town into into well they wanna give us something into a diversion into the cult mentality. Then of course we We we retrace trist. Marine steps lost nine steps through England in the United Kingdom Rod from London. Down through down south through Sussex and Kent went through Tunbridge wills which she lasts telephone sally from and the tiny town of Alpha Ston where she sent one of the last postcards. Sally received all the way down to broaden retracing literally steps which was again eliminating. When you do that? It just doesn't it just doesn't match that she was planning to disappear and walk away from lawf- but took a little little holiday trip on the why it it just doesn't it doesn't make sense. And then of course Elsa June in Luxembourg I never thought I'd go to Luxembourg but we unearthed a person of potential interest through that advertised in the newspaper. Naughty Naughty four and we identified a person matching the description in that ad and went and knocked on his door and everyone knows about financial McKell now and Out Questions to him which he still refuses to answer. So we've seen team questions on three occasions. He has refused to answer any of them. You've heard him speak on the phone since AL physical visit earlier this year and yet he's still want and simply ruled himself out of this investigation by answering questions which is perplexing and as anyone would understand requires us to looking at him and in addition to that. We've we've traveled all around Sydney and And Brisbane and and the Gulf coast as well as the podcast traveling all around the world. I mean I just never could to me or I'm sure you Alison Sally. That half our listeners would be North America America and Europe and thank you to all our listeners for tanking Marion Story to heart and offering your good wishes and and your prison you you confidence in lovely comments to sell the team. I can't tell you how encouraging that is because we're all doing this on top of jobs. We're not getting paid extra. We're not doing this for the money. What we're doing this because we WANNA help solve it and it's a unique and exciting investigation and that's what we get into journalism to do it and all of your support makes it makes a big difference thank you yes? Thank you and one of the things I always say this. At the beginning of this it was always about Sally's journey as well as solving this mystery. The journey to solve this mystery And the the highs and the lows and the old the bumps in the road and the door slammed in the face you know but he's not alone anymore in this journey I mean not that she was alone before she always had a family bought. It's as as you mentioned earlier. The army behind her now it's certainly In given everyone a lot of strength and we're all just as passionate about it and and We're GONNA get this. We all thank you everyone for listening this year and to which all merry Christmas and a happy new year. And what's going to be a messy the lady vanishes. It's certainly will and Gig get your seat belts on It's GonNa be a crazy ride next year. Also at some statutory I talked to. This is just hilarious into the behind the scenes particularly with Sally and Brian Travelling together that Brian. There's a Lotta Stove. That's fine that's when insurance for gone very merry Christmas to everybody have a wonderful happy new year. We look forward ought to joining with you all again in the New Year Hyphen holiday project might be to go back. And listen to all the old episodes or refer friend Don't forget to subscribe and lock us. That helps us find new listening inside out petitions on this on the petition. Get reward for Marion any information on Marian that could be another thing that tips it over the line so that parents go to souvenirs dot com slash the lady vanishes keep listening on all the platforms and have a great right twenty twenty. We'll see you very soon. Say Thank you bye.
How the Ruby Princess unravelled
"This is an ABC podcast. Only if we've learned anything lightly it sit. There are a lot of cruise ships out dead named for princesses. There's the diamond princess the grand princess the Ruby Princess. And it's not a coincidence. I'm Steven Smiley and I'm Ashoka. And today on the signal with following the journey of the Ruby Princess cruise that ended with more than six hundred sixty Australian passengers contracting covet. Nineteen and on the way. We're finding out about the company that rented a company that also happens to operate about half the cruise ships in the world's so the cruise ship industry has been giving princesses a terrible name for the lost six weeks. Jochen sweet cruise around New Zealand now. The center of another car rhinovirus out brighter is a cruise ship off. Sydney heads quite a while away called the ruby princess and Iraq confirmed cases of Corona Virus on board act in Yokohama Japan. The cruise liner diamond princess. Now has the largest cluster of cove in nineteen cases outside China California in a state of emergency a cruise ships. Doug off the Bay Area Coast. This morning is linked to the state's first corona virus packed with thirty five hundred passengers and crew. The Grand Prince's cruise ship is returning to San Francisco but for now won't be allowed to dock the princess. You've probably heard the most about is the ruby princess which docked in Sydney two times last month right and Australia's roughly six and a half thousand confirmed cases of Covert Nineteen about a tenth on board that ship. Fuelling clusters in New South. Wales Tasmania and South Australia. And since the last boatload of Ruby Princess passengers disembarked in Sydney on the nineteenth of March at least nineteen if those people have died yet. And that's about a third of the national death toll and because of that. The Ruby Princess is now the subject of at least two inquiries. The latest one was announced. Yesterday by the New South Wales Premier Gladys G Clinton Commission of inquiry will start Immediately the terms of reference Will be determined in the next few days and we'll be oversee made publicly available. Brit Walker as the commissioner will have complete powers to do whatever he likes whatever he stays fit now. That inquiry is expected to report back in about three to four months. And it's on top of a criminal investigation and a possible coronial inquest and also talk of a class action lawsuit. Yeah and David. Hardacre is a senior investigative. Journalist at Crikey has been documenting a lot of what could ultimately become evidence. You've obviously written quite a bit for cranky about the Ruby Princess situation over the past few weeks. We want to get into what you've discovered shortly but I just get you to set up. What what is the Ruby Princess ship if you've never been on a cruise before what's it like to be on board its luxurious setup? It's a place where you'll have several swinkels Dining areas There are shops on board often selling pretty expensive Trinkets and dresses. And what have you bearing in mind? You expect you've got a clientele that's well off slightly older. Got Money to spend. They kept you've onboard. Dining is really important there several dining areas and lots and lots of functions ago on the multi-storey they're like a floating town in a way. There are thousands of people on board and activities from from from dawn till dusk. I've seen this around the world but what I see here never ceases to me some change. I'm lucky to see it. Every day to see people go out and comeback new princess cruises comeback new. So that's what people had paid four when they showed up on the eighth of much to board the ruby princess but even before the crews began things went right so they arrived in time for a noon. Boating and a new. A new embarkation encountered a delay and they were told by via text. Message to go away come back later in the afternoon and we'd be voting three o'clock around three o'clock this further text messages and they're told to come back around five o'clock then it's make arrangements for dinner so ultimately the those. I've spoken to WHO bulletin actually boarded the ship who roundabout nine ten PM in Tom for eleven o'clock to Pacha some eleven house after it was the would you to board. They weren't they. Tell me they weren't told anything any real reason as to why they was the delay. Other than that. The New South Wales Health Department had to check that the ship precise An Indian that delay caused any worries for the passengers. Were people suspicious about what have been going on. During that time they they wouldn't actually arrive with With a suspicious mind if I could put it that way. So they more or less accepted the explanation which I can actually read to you I. I have in front of me a text which was provided by the ship in relation to the delay. It says that the ruby princess was ultimately given clearance to commence embarkation as the outside terminal. Area is now congested at to help us facilitate the embarkation process. We ask guests who chicken to leave and enjoy the surrounding area for dinner as customs and security will take time and patience to all guests. What do we now understand was was the reason for that delay or what was going on at the time while those passages were amusing themselves around circular. Kate and Sidney so what the what the passengers did not know at that. Point is that earlier that day. The Ruby Princess had arrived from a previous trip and as it was awry as it was coming into dock it gave information to authorities that they had almost one hundred sixty people on board. Who was sick. Thirteen of them had running temperatures and that nine had been tested for covered. Nineteen and those tests would turn out to be negative so the passengers who were about to board knew nothing of that. They didn't understand that. The New South Wales pop had been on board to to to clean the ship to insist to check the cleaning of the ship and also to screen some of those passengers that they'd be in too a so. It's a lights dot. The cruise eventually gets underway passing for the heads of Sydney Habat in darkness. After three days crossing the tasman the Ruby Princess Arrives in New Zealand and for the first few days. Everything seems fine until doc in the capital. Rim Arrive in Wellington. It appears that some passengers aren't well and five were tested at in Willington for presence of of covered nine hundred thousand fiction and I would ultimately turn out to be negative So it's reported on Matsu fifteenth the week. After leaving Sydney the ship stops at night. And it's here that some problems emerge and problems which is which have recently become. We become evident so when they when they arrive in Napier. The local officials ask if they have any illness to report on board. Whatever happens and New Zealand's now in conducting its own preliminary investigation into that It now emerges that there are there's a cluster of something like ten people with covered nineteen infection which relates directly to the rivals. Ruby Princess in Apia on that day people in IBM had contact with the passengers from the Ruby Princess. That's right so it's it's people in Napier who've had direct contact with with passengers from the ship. They include for example to a gods and one bus driver now. I've spoken to a passenger who was aboard the ship who recalls that one of the passengers. One of the other passengers was a pretty bad cough sitting on a bus Sheeran nightmare. So now we see that there's a bus driver. From Nigeria. Who is supposed to kind of daunting? And there's it appears I really princess passenger in that bus who was coughing and Santa Claus will so at this point. The TYNAN camera takes ton after further consolidation consultation with the National Security Committee. The soft moon. Tonight we will be resolving to move to a position where I travel ban will be placed on all non residence not Australian citizens coming to a stride and that will be implies from nine pm tomorrow evening now for restrictions of course they will be able to return and they will be subject as they already had fallen upon arrival back in Australia and pretty quickly the ruby princess changes course and starts speeding back towards Sydney. So the the drama. The real drama really plays out in the six seven eight hours prior to the ship talking and I suspect it's going to occupy a police investigation. It appears at one point that the news the Port Authority of New South Lyles controlling Sydney. Haba has decided that In fact it will not allow the Ruby Princess Doc. It's made that decision having gained having having heard from New South Wales ambulance that That they had been a request from the ship for there to be two ambulances prepaid full when the ship arrives because of sick passengers. This is territory. There's a hint from New South Wales Ambulance. That the the The company countable had mentioned that the cases might involve covered nineteen in fiction. It's on that basis that Pulitzer Authority New South Wales decides. They're not going to allow the shipping around eleven thirty midnight. We're talking now to three hours before the ships GONNA dock. It appears that an official from Carnival Australia a senior official contexts pulled authority of New South. Wales there's a long conversation and then after that conversation. The ship is allowed to dock and at at this point are there any confirmed corona virus cases on board the ship and its owners have asserted that there is not a confirmed case of course on board and that may well be the case pulling back the question do each new. South Wales Health was asking was other any suspected cases or corona virus onboard. And I think that that question and the way the ship and that again will be front and center of this police investigation at around about two two thirty there are two ambulances sitting on the dog. You ready to collect two passages from the ship so the the the question is why. Why would those ambulances cold and what was the nature of illness now? What increases one suspicion? Here about what? The ship really was that one of the passengers who was taken from a sheep at two thirty in the morning. The woman into a seventeen pounder having real trouble breathing according to reports and who six days later in fact is from coronal hours in fiction and I think it's the first fatality from chip. So I think any investigator looking at this is going to say well. What was nine about that woman? What was her State of Health? What did really princess till health authorities ambulance port authorities about this suspicions about women now quite a lot from several different accounts about what happened next. Sir. Later in the morning the bulk of the Ruby Princess passengers disembarked and they all seem to have had no idea about two. Am ambulances or about their fellow passenger? Who would go on to die from Corona virus and while they were told to self isolate for fourteen days? Which was what all passengers coming into Australia. We're being told by this stage. Plenty of them went straight from the dog onto public transport. Taxis Uber's caused this went to Sydney Airport where they flew out to places like Tasmania and the Northern Territory and South Australia and Queensland and in at least one case Singapore in London now what the review. Princess's operated is responsible for the clusters that would then develop is obviously a subject of those investigations. So we got David to explain what the consequences could be so the first possible action duty of care did the ruby princess and countable management till passengers old. I knew about what the conditions were on board and the possible risk to them of contracting current. Ivars now the passengers. I've spoken to side. I would've told nothing then. You move into the realm of of Crema possible criminal actions and that's where the police looking. So were there any actions taken or not taken by the ship which has resulted in the deaths of nineteen elderly people and the infection of more than ran seven hundred people. So did the ship by by any action or lack of action lead to the death or injury of of passengers and within that my understanding is we're talking about either manslaughter at its worst in or or criminal negligence so the question of criminal charges ease the one to watch. And that's because of who it is that owns the ruby princess. Can I just ask you a broader question about this company so so Carnival Cruiser? Which is the parent company of Ruby Princess as you hanging a number of other princesses as well is is an enormous today kit. Can you just give us a sense about what this company is? Carnival Corporation is headquartered in Miami. Florida is responsible for something like fifty percent of all cruising around the world. It owns more than one hundred cruise ships covering several brands. The princess brand is one of them and and Ruby princesses one of those Last year reported profits of three billion dollars worldwide On something like twenty one billion dollars of Turnover the chairman of the company. Micky Arison is Has WORKED WITH DONALD TRUMP and his report friends with Donald Trump. It's it's a company which is is is very large and it's very influential and it has been very very profitable. Yeah and I need your experiences. Senior investigative reporter. I mean how difficult is it for? Law Enforcement entities and governments in country lockers. Julia to to dig into the offensive a company at the sky. Oh yeah the I. I think there are lots of does rise lots of questions about jurisdiction the The police are investigating allegations that relate to entity which is infect registered overseas in this case Bermuda Attacks Haibin. How straightforward is it for it to seize documents says Police say they've done. How easy is it for them to actually conduct all their interviews and to get full cooperation and to get full documentation? I think that's something we die. Something that remains to be seen. This is a very important moment. Obviously for countable it's got a legal action banking up against around the world It'll be it'll be engaging some pretty some pretty informed legal advice would say kind of Australia says it acted in line with state and federal procedures and followed the advice of New South Wales Health in a statement to the C. It says its onboard. Medical Team fully disclosed New South Wales Health that they were some people on board with flu like symptoms. The company also says that New South Wales Health advised that an expert panel had assessed through Princess. Anne had determined that it did not require an onboard health assessment in Sydney. That's it for today. Please make sure you do subscribe to the signal. And if you're enjoying the show tell people about it. We make new on most of the week. And we'll catch you tomorrow bye bye.
Bonus: Conversations 15
"Hi I'm Alison Sandy on Bronze Wall and I'm Sally Laden. Welcome to episode fifteen conversations as we say with conversations stations we would wait until we had something to tell you before would hold them. We always have a lot to tell you but this week we have special news another milestone another hurdle. Hodel that we've cleaned jurisdiction sally. Do you WanNa tell us about your show. I had a phone call from Gary Shannon. WHO's the detective on the case last week and he was ringing me just with an update on a few things he'd been pretty busy on another case so I haven't heard from him for a little bit so it was good to hear back from him. Those updates and one of them was that The new South Wales Coroner head had made a decision that there was enough evidence to show that they were jurisdictional. what you when you newsouth wiles is the jurisdiction for the so she decided that there was enough evidence to show that mom was residing or activity in New South Wales for her Ritchie. take it on and look at it to decipher whether we were going to go to a coronial inquest on and this is very significant because because this had been an an ongoing issue or bugbear vows because there was a fear that it would be transferred to Queensland that they need to Karnal decide Hidenori. There's not enough evidence that New South Wales she'd be hearing this and fortunately that wasn't the case of Maine to us at away saying like bryner remain and we've been over this before she was born there. She spent most of a life. They're she's lost her. Last activity was the but you know she was a teacher in in Queensland and she allegedly flew back into Queensland on August the second one thousand nine hundred seventy. There were some issues in New South Wales place where they appeared to be pushing pushing for Queen's island to take on an issue pulpit of a better word so this is really significant. This now means I'm an old Gary Gary Ambient. You rang and lane being from the current and then I don't know if was Gary L. O. N. explained to the process from now yeah yeah so it was an She confirmed that she was just waiting for Gary to putting a foam which is called a base seventy nine started pace of any no. I'm Bay I'm I'm not sure if that forms being handed into the corner at this point and that suspected death. Oh yeah that's a suspected death report to the car or sorry Shea within within once she has that report from Gary. She will then make a decision whether she's going to take it on his coronial inquest now. Brian can you then wrote to use justice. Media defined out exactly yeah officially what we thought about that. Can you tell me about that. Amo Yes so we have to deal with justice can't deal directly with the corner is because win over the next fifteen so just in New South Wales. We'll we'll talk about what a coronial linquist easily America's so somebody wanted to get an indication on whether or not they can confirmation of the jurisdiction distinction meant that that meant the current was in fact going ahead with an inquest and was waiting police documentation so we got an email back and I can rated it says the coroner's Court has asked the New South Wales Police Force to provide a missing persons report in relation to the disappearance of Marian bottle. We knew that once this has been received. The current is quoted. newsouth swells will make a formal request full police to provide a brief of evidence within three months so that gives us the timeframe so that I have received amazing repercussions for we know one of two reports and sound economic data on on whether the sanctimonious going once they've been saved the coroner will make a formal request for a brief of evidence which must be submitted within three months and then I signed the laws on the email nights have been sit for Enquist we went through if that meant into that decided to have an increase but hadn't said a diet so I followed up and asked that question we go back. Sighing further documentation foam police is needed did before an inquest can be confirmed so again. The KARNER is telling us they whiting on police that I've got one report our understanding and I sell clear this up was that the first of two reports to the car and I had been submitted and then the the the current will ask for a brief of evidence and I'll talk about what what that is and more than one of those due to speak to me about that sickened report yes so initially. Gary told me that there was two reports that needed to be done and one of them was the jurisdictional fictional issue why he thought it should go to Queensland New South Wales and the other was a kind of like a report on what they've actually done to date on mums fall so when he spoke to me explain what was going on I said also have you put in the second report and goes. What do you mean the second report. I said well you told me there was Tony Guys. All I ended up doing them both together so they'll both put together in one compal and incent to the coroner in that form so yes so that's what he told me when. I spoke to him so as a fraud I the coroner's signed. I have asked the police to provide a missing Pusan's. I'm using this report in relation to the disappearance Marriott from what you've told me sal around the same time speaking to Gerry it appears that they they do have that in the system and and now that will trigger the formal request for a brief of evidence within three months crucial. What's happened is hey is? He sent those formed in the car in her said yes so when I spoke to excuse me when I spoke to inland beano at the coroner's court she explained that the new car and I had spoken with the Queensland Karner go ahead they will both like one of US needs to take it so who is actually going to take the case on because we where does it fit in with the jurisdictional on join the sand and they've both decided that it's definitely a new South Wales case it needs to be heard there what Gary did explain to me because he sort of read through it with me as as well is that the he has now got to present them with once she accepts that it's car I correct guy to- coronial inquest she he then sent him a brief of evidence if you like and he has three months to compile that he has told me flat out that he can ask for an extension then he said I'm telling you right now. I will be asking for an extension because there's no way I'm going to get it done in three months time so why the and asked and confirmed with inland beano you know what does that mean does that just main decision never ending extension into gets done or does that to the New South Wales police have a sit did lawn. I have to compulsory comply with sorry and she said yes so they'll only get it through another three-month extension on top of that so it's a six month. Jewish and we're expecting from the time on that the coroner accepts the case for Gary pre-spring together to get back to her the reason the coroner needs that brief okay so we could. It'd be six months. We'd hold out hope that it would be sooner given how long the places had to look at these guys but it is another six months the reason the corn the need that brief of evidence is because they considering holding coronial inquest into the disappearance marrying. Badeah coronal enquiries different an inequalities with I look at a thing Lanka an explosion something that causes damage but doesn't cause any death and enquist easing to the the they suspected a possible death of a person ended its it set up to determine specific things that are in doubt even after the police have had a look at it including the density of the person who's dawn and the dight the place and the MENA will cause of death of the deceased now all of these things will be looked at at an inquest into Marian's disappearance appearance of the evidence would the current would hub largely help them a raw that intimidation and in the end the Karna. Mike's a finding finding and that's that's not I a luck I post mortem report or a court ruling from judge doughty's these legal funding and that will be specifically the identity of the person so confirmed that it is named that we're looking at the end the Diet replace in manner and calls of death of the deceased all they can return it open funding if they have to have holding enquist fond that they just don't know what happened they can return an open finding reason just lost the reason I is potentially valuable in your mom's cell of courses. It is like a cold in many respects in that people can be required to give evidence under oath and the the coroner has the power to receive evidence request and compel companies. authorities the legal offices to provide and evidence full to look at so. It's the best place to look at all of the things that frankly we don't have the right to into request of done have the rod for some of that stuff so has the power to end on Friday she had explained to me that on Gary head also he said I now work for the New South Wales coronor so any any inquiries or questions I have to be directed through that pathway now not three New South Wales those police and an has said to me because there was one thing I had asked Gary which was ETR question and I was not sure if anyone one who looked into the source of the vast the question had anyone looked into see if mom had done a tax return in one thousand nine hundred seven and I asked him to check into that hey came back to me the city had checked earlier in the pace and unfortunately being older Ashley Protected by heavy laws in the anyway he as a police officer in in like investigating a case could gain access to information like with someone did a tax return would be bearing costs rated so the fact that moms of missing person doesn't seem to count when they're doing investigations. Judah Privacy taught privacy issue so I brought that up with an lamb beano and she said to you may want you to write me a list in an email of dot points at the things that you want investigated by the car sorry if I can quickly run through those just so people people north because I get questions all the time. Have you checked this heavy. Check this so these are the things I'm going to be asking in that email so I want the passport entry date confirmed and the location confirmed through customs. I'd like the passenger cod lists of the flight leaving Australia and coming back because it's my belief that if there's the same person on both sides flights we potentially have a person of interest. I want to check to see if she did put in a tax return because she left before she would have got a group certificate and when she came back or whoever came back second. I be very interesting to see if that actually took place. I WANNA have a look at the bank records. I want them to check who was the a person who actually sparked to me and told me about the five thousand dollars coming out of the bank account embar and billy that document that should be documented because they put a hold on mums discard that were contacting me at the time keeping me in the loop of what was going on. This was not a one-off phone call that I had this ongoing thing with the Commonwealth. I'm Wolf Bank again. The bank manages interviewed and spoken to you about what happened because you know we can. We can ask or we like but with. I want to tell us the truth will notice another thing so I think if the car was asking those questions we want a bit of a better situation to get some answers. I'd like the staff at Tass to be interviewed the principal for example the stuff that mom worked with like Barber Penfield these people hold a lot of important information the former principal Bruce Cook yes that's meant but yeah like if we can get those people doing like speaking to the corner and letting them know what their thoughts are but let seem really really important part of it I want the Queensland police report regarding my mom's wallet and the photo of the Lady the service stations on TV using MOMS credit card which has also been confirmed by her friend Bob Massey who said yes your mom sure it made that photo was well of the lady. I want to know why that's not on her file and we need to investigate that and the date on that we believe is very wrong. we want we want to see who witnessed mums depot document and we want to see what the reason was for the name change. Deutsche to Autumn's on that document I really really important and the whole document would be great but those two particularly when you think that'd be out access. I mean that's what they ask for so we've just been declined this. Will I have just been decline this week. I'm what early last week from the Queensland courts so I had to jump through a million hoops to to get them to say actually no. We're not going to give you any information intimation. So That's regarding the documents that's been going on nearly four months five months so another close but finally the other thing was the Tokai number connection to the ad I also want them to be able to try and check MOM's phone number authority about this the other day there was any international national. Kohl's made from mumps fine before she left because that would give us a contact overseas and things like that so there are things that haven't been checked in my understanding standing so they are the things all be requesting the car not looking to to help them with their investigation. I think it makes it easier for them. If they have a bit of a glide police two things yeah and we think will help find her and Sally. There's so much any one of those things could unearth the volatile clue that solves does the mystery any one of those things but particularly who the ad in Lieu Korea Australian and Naughty Naughty Foreign Balan who was the phone number in that ad registered today I mean and that's that's a huge question given the circumstantial evidence that led us to Luxembourg and we'll talk more about finance kilobit lighter but also you've raised the fall and the wealth of information potentially in the along the incoming passenger card that Marian filled out claiming to be a housewife in Luxembourg after she he disappeared but apparently returned to strike and Naughty Naughty seven on benign see you in the family traveling under these new nine Flora Bill McGill that that passenger cod is in the place fall and it's extraordinary to me even still you jumping through hoops to get access to change of name. Dade poll details documents. You'll adult yeah. It's it's twenty two years ago and still your being forced to jump through hoops way being refused access now as everyone knows we did apply through the new south well civil and administrative tribunal in cat and had a hearing a few months ago. We were hoping they'd be very quick decision by stone. Have will we thought now legal legal team at channel seven thought we went into that hearing still nothing so. I have asked alloys to this week. Chick with the incumbent to see when that decision might the again. It's something that could instantly releasing flood of valuable information because there's nothing stopping helping us working as we have been Taunus Lee on your behalf selling to run down clues and leads we've identified. The clues leads that we know exists that we want to look at that. We want want to run down so far. We haven't been able to get a hands on a feel tantalizingly close to getting a lot of information and that one pays information any one one of the things you just mentioned that could blow this whole kinds wanna pop so with that with that list. We should go over together because because we should also get the airport from High Airport Vision From Home Affairs. That's just me yeah. That's that's it. That's the quick one so yeah. We'll do that together and once we're like okay. We think we'll go to get one chance that the whole day the storage works all sorts of stuff so I got a few more calls to make two so the girls behind the scenes of being the super super reaching through lots awesome stuff so we've have elicited by doubt so yeah it was not actually because we found a lady with still going through the TASS student fall and we we found a guy because we got Mandy Jennings on the name now he was my mouth. It's actually funny. We've become so close quickly. Okay and I said to my mom would love that. We are friends like the think Mrs so funny because she's only three older than me so we're going out for lunch on Thursday because it's actually my mom's birthday on Thursday and so we were planning on lunch and I said why don't we do it on mom's birthday and she said that it'd be great. Sorry I think mom would be pretty happy the first two yeah she does. We found Fan Gentleman who was boyne mums cloth when Mandy had with mom. We've Mandy was mums sensory ninety five and Mandy thought because he was quite young mom was a little concerned that maybe repeated so he he was also in reception in ninety six and we're just trying to find the pilot's son how we've which is seemingly impossible anyway. We found him. We spoke to him toy so awkward and I feel so horrible. Messaging people going higher and just wondering were you at ten assists in ninety five like it's such sure on question to ask somebody anyway he sort of came back and was like what do you ask and I told him and he said audit remember that you need to speak to my mom and so he sent me her number and I said wins a good time. It was quite light not and Um hey sitting house good so I rang her and she was actually in tease most of the conversation then she said I had no idea that this was happening. She said I was really good friends with your mom. She was going through a rough break at the time and mom was really supportive of her and go over to mom's house and she said she hold onto some plants for me and she said she was such a beautiful individual really devastated to hear that's happening so she's now jumped jumped on solid listening to the podcast she can get up to speed with what's going on and she's going to do her best to try and remember an Oscar husband. He remembers any any parents or any information that might lead us to the pilot awesome information about what was happening at the time which is good. You know that's what have been asking for for people to come forward like doc. I don't think any of these have any Rommel reason as to why disappeared but if they can give us a little ounce of information you never Eboni at latest today to finding her a look the whole car coronial inquest path and the Carnegie getting involved involved is a godsend. I mean just even that list. I mean it's the thought that she could easily get hold of that depot documents like she did like things like the I. Oy anything that's federal they struggle with so if it's state versus federal federal every time so she said but if she can give good reasons to Washington to see that that's what she can fought for but no harm and you know what it's sweet thing I rang to speak to an back like we were back and forth on the final Mr Call and rang back in the gentleman on the find who is the WHO is the person regarding the suspected death and it was kind of like a weed feeling for me. Are you for somebody to say that to me 'cause thority. I've never heard anyone say that to me. So you know it's a bittersweet thing. It's not something that I'm jumping around with joy about. You know it's not something that I'm excited about by all means because it doesn't mean doesn't have a good ending. I guess at the end of the story but if we if we go down that path but it's so important for me to get these answers like upset at one hundred times now. I just want my children to be left behind point. You know wondering what happened to the grandmother and you know I just want to try and get the answers so that we can you know have a celebration of her life. If that's the case and move on and the kids can put it to bed knock and put it to bed and you know we can just and if she met fair play and and we find that out as a result then there's justice correct and I think I feel like there's justice needed from you know just as needed for me like I feel like of being put through the ringer for very long time and you you know that has been a fun journey. You know it's not it's not good for anybody to have to go through that so so it's very exciting and UH. I mean the reason we're doing conversations this week. Rather than an episode is working on our set the moment ideally we'd like to have had an cat decision out but depending on how how long that will take we've had some some roaring new interviews and information that have coming that coming out in the next episode not least of which. I have spoken to Fernando Michael and his wife Marie again married partner. Sorry just there's no that's good thank you. I wasn't quite sure so anyway so yes. That was look. I guess BEF- I mean I'm not GonNa go into obviously what they said. You'll we'll have to wait for the episode but it's it's possibly the most odd interview I've ever I've ever had with anyone with finance and and yeah I mean obviously will leave it to you to make up your minds. about what you think of it but I guess what I will employ everyone everyone to do that when they do he the next episode and they come in on social media whatever that they'd be very careful about what they say as we know it teaches pit and other podcasts you've really got to be careful immoral your comments and we will be deleting hiding comments that advocacy autry against Fernande so just be understand people's strong feelings and emotions and thoughts and we walk them. Those and then people are afraid to express opinions. What we're talking about is an investigation into sallies mom and why we're just trying to find out what happened to sell his mom? Now we oversee never had heard of anyone nine. Finan- RIMMA kill the name Rim kill the extraordinary circumstances you can listen to a podcast which led us to knock on the door of this man in Luxembourg will overwhelming and compelling way on not and we have not accused Phanindra McGill of doing anything illegal we simply want to sit down with him mm-hmm and go through in detail what we have to determine whether or not he possibly could have been involved in the knowingly or unknowingly with Marian and and the reason we need to do that is because of the extraordinary white of evidence which has led us to identify him as a potential person of interest in our investigation illegal police since at all in our investigation now his response could be one of someone who is entirely innocent freaked out wondering what's going on very defensive unsure of how to proceed and stayed at now. It could be that we it all. Tom's have tried to being respectful. We have not harangued him rest financed or his partner. Mory what we've done is festival on to visit him and you saw that in episode eleven when you heard that and then sort on the story which is on our facebook page in Luxembourg at twenty two minutes story which in which you can see that journey and then we've we've followed that up with first of all to sits of detailed questions which I'm mild on two separate occasions. The first time that retuned refused is to receive so the the courier has gone to the door. He's refused to accept the Apostle did a document on blood and it's come back to me and Australia the second Tom was delivered and then returned to sender now since then allison and she said has managed to speak with Marie the and and finance and I've heard that conversation and keeping him on what I just said having listened to that conversation it frankly employee raises more questions than it provides onces which is fascinating than saying. She's never had a conversation long dead before aw found a highly unusual for a number of reasons and and when you hear it in the near future once we've gone through all the checks that we need to do to respect everyone's routes. You can make your own judgment formula an opinion about that compensation. What I will say is that we would be happy for. Mr Ridicule not involved in this at all that that would be fine we donate him to be involved in this at all. We've identified him through a number number of extraordinary details on earth now whips loose have unearthed and we just want to go through so that we can either rule out his involvement and in any way with Mary NBA or understand what the involvement was. If it didn't exist so please when you're posting online just just be mindful and respectful of a person who may be completely unaware an innocent of all of this and just keep that in mind does thinking what if that will mar relatively take what if that when you're commenting you're allowed to express an opinion be respectful place and don't just throw around angry or definitive liable. Su- will sloughs so that that that's really allison is is asking you to do nothing. You're exactly right Alison but do the conversation. The head was extraordinary. I guess the other thing that we should point out particularly in in Semaine we went to Luxembourg for the particular raisin despite to him and we you guys did you call I is that is that how we new home is when because when we go home so yeah we'll Brian and hefty Sara Sara Sara sorry sorry nine drawn cooling rolling in didn't answer for two days correct and then we came back we went out again to knock on the door but NAM time and then we came back into Luxembourg city again and we just wrong actually in spoken to finance ex wife Monique and we got onto her and she was lovely and then we tried the number again O'Brien and zero the number again and they answered so and it was very like Sarah being the being from Luxembourg. She was trying to communicate with them and it was a little bit awkward so we just decided to go back out there and arm quote family signed two Brian. Go is in the car. You know we need to be really respectful full of these scholars because we know for one minute that he's involved with any of these on. I was very very considerate. I I saw you know I. I've I've put my hand didn't come in and like guns a blazing. I just ask a simple question so I feel like we did the best that we had the opportunity to to do any were there. He knew that we were media with your part of this podcast is investigation. Sally and Sarah Sarah being a journalist in west from Luxembourg. Tom's with the I woke up yeah and you know we didn't take cameras and cameras in the faces or anything like that he he was actually a video nas and filming US three three. He's window as we were approaching which had my heart racing a million miles an hour going what's going on because clearly. I had no idea either. I was quite petrified acting waiting to do that if you're still been thankful five seconds like I've got no idea who these matinees. I've got no idea if he's got some connection to my more not so it was actually quite a quite an emotional sean quad stressful situation for maybe in as well but one that we had to really yeah but you know. I mean Sarah Luxembourg times and and then obviously when financed did come out we had cameras then and always up front about the fact that we didn't we didn't even for the PODCAST and obviously television at that stage as well and it was just a matter of just finding out whether he was the author of this Ad and intentionally near your mom and where it went from there but anyway they will be on that end is at the moment. We've got to back he people. NFL podcast creation away sales and mock right mock right during the production. He's away for two months sadly in in Europe so missing him terribly probably so everything's a little bit slower Braun working on the script trying to get off the scratch and then we have the lovely amend wool who's helping us with the production now so so anyway. That's why it's taking longer to get this next episode out fifteen and we thought conversations were really we had to update about the jurisdiction so important such a big coup and obviously really. GonNa open a lot of doors for us in relation to the Karner being involved so that that's really good. I don't know if I've touched on. I think we just jump straight to Gary. Doing he's evidence but in the interim is from the time that they receive that pay seventy nine bay form. She gets five days to contact me and let me know whether she's whether she isn't so we should technically night at at this week if it will be just so you just because. I don't think we've touched on that before well. Yes that's yeah it's. It's very very exciting night what I'm interested to know ounce and Sally is we're coming up on a year since we began this journey. The lady vanishes how you coping. How are you feeling. How's your family holding up Well l. It's become like my second full time job. I guess you know when I'm not working on on working on the lady vanishes and just doing my best to try and keep everybody abreast of what we're up to an answering people's questions because of numerous times. I'm really grateful for everybody's interest in the story in the Autzen kind words like it's really it's really heart wrenching tomato have that I love that people care enough to to contact okay so that's that's been very nice part of this journey for me of of become backing contact with Moore Brothers ex-fiancee aiden who he was with when he died so you know we haven't spoken for seventeen years eighteen years because it was too hard for her to talk to us and every time she saw me she would burst into tears and she said I just can't do this. You know we've reconnected. She's married two beautiful little girls and she's in a happy place Jason for me. That was important that she discovered to that place on on her own sweet reconnect one day if it was meant to be in thanks to the PODCAST. She actually works in a hospital. The lady downstairs apparently had heard it came up and told her about it and that's how she got connected with. The podcast hints bree connected with me. We've had a chat. We'd like she was like. Oh my God. I feel like we've just yesterday like it was signed off to to reconnect with that so the positives that have come out of the PODCAST new friends obviously joining off got so many like Christina. Mandy creases obviously my rock. He's my husband and he's always there the support me and you know make sure that I'm safe and the the kids are safe and that we're just plodding along you know and I'm doing asking you know. The kids are not really push it onto them too much. I think ello is sort of very canine listening to the podcast beginning. She sort of phased it out out now. She's busy at unique doing engineering so I definitely don't WanNa make it. They lost do this. Darcy's dossiers just oblivious to the whole thing. She's not interested in it and that's okay with me. You know that she's fourteen. She'll she'll come around. I guess when the time is right and we can sit down and have a conversation the session about that and win when it was a week by week thing happening. We're doing a podcast and conversations at the same time which was very thick and heavy and fast at the time. The pressure will attention fifties L. really let it affect me too badly. Actually I think I think my stress isn't everything of really bad twitchy more but I don't notice it anymore. It was pretty bad yesterday but I don't yeah I know I feel like I'm managing it better than I was but I think that sexually supportive everybody behind me. There obviously certain things that triggered me off but you know I haven't heard from Mum's sisters through all of this you know it's been almost a year since I spoke with him and I I am a little dumbfounded that you know the history is now banned after homicide review said that she's actually missing and placed on the person's register and is now in the hands of the car and earned for nobody to contact me to see for my say. We think we might have been wrong when we said mom just walked away and callously forgot or didn't care about letting you look at what would you like to happen with with. Your Neuron teased some ideally. Would you want to get them together to have a chat for the podcast of what what would you like to do the podcast again. If I hear these. What would you lock them. Even just a phone call to say look. What do you need from us. Is that what you you'd like. I think I would have liked that initially but oh I think I've just moved on if that before it can be climbed and carrying enough to say that way. I just feel like of donat on my own. I don't need anybody to hold my hand. Don't need anything from anybody in the family. Do you know what I mean like. I don't want to sit here and go but I need. You guys to be made man carped by myself. My kids have carved. We've made managing it and Chris has will Chris's quote he on the other. Hong get quite angry about it but we'll probably ought to get angry but I can understand Chris's frustration. He's the thing I would like Oh. You don't know what what help so this. We don't know now for some reason Marian sisters they spoke to his very early on at the start of this journey and basically said all. I think Sally should let it go. I think Marion says ought to do this. She hadn't but that's what she's done. So I A- all the assumptions advice that on have now been shown not to be correct and the place says you Si- have performed a home Assad review and all the things I was trying to dig is never been flipped on the head. I don't believe she's walked down on a loft anymore because they put on the National Missing Persons Register. They believe something else has happened. Now knowing that online too I mean I would love to interview Marion Sisters because they might be able to tell us something. We don't know that you don't I don't know maybe talking because they don't WanNa talk about things that we ought not on surprised and frustrated that they not mourn orange guides and on on certainly lot to on behalf of Allison and every one of the team providing the opportunity if they want to speak to us to just have a chat well. We're just gathering as much information as the fullest pitcher of marrying that we can because you just don't know what's going to be crucial in that fawn all the final month that final instant that we solve this crack it. I will say that we do they. They haven't had the the best. I guess well they haven't had the best reaction from some of some of listeners in relation to this but you know it was really really nice for Deirdre to speak at the beginning and give us insight because I mean that was really valuable. I mean it was sort of was inside that we kind of already knew via correspondence. Rodents shared with Sally but certainly we don't. We don't know anything about Brahman Ole P. About how they feel or whether they're like we assume they feel the same way as Deidra does all in our we'll. Do they feel yeah. Let them tell us you know. We're not judging we. He said it's it's going to be wilder and frustrating and it has been good that Daydream Olsen Olsen Simon has been very helpful four which is just really on that sent me the slip as well so she's brownies off and we're still waiting on the Dane actually spiked to inspected detective Glam Brown who's heading up the new missing persons unit in New South yesterday and he confirmed that the slips in with the laboratory and they just waiting waiting to see if they can get a sample once they do that. They will create a profile on that sample once they do that. They'll in check with preuss. DNA The need to supply because she did with the booze once or twice so they'll have to rule her out is that being her D. and I and then he said he will advise me as soon as he gets any information that and going back to DNA as well. Gary also say that The new South Wales what team it is per se but he said they are now taking over the DNA sort of things for him so they're the ones checking against the boring for example in wolves end. He said that they had found they couldn't fly in about one the barn initially I have no word on if they have found the balance bar or not however what we did I've done a little bit more research on the wolves in buying and the leg by of the of the barn that found in Newcastle says the person would be around one hundred fifty four centimeters and my mom mum was one hundred sixty seven centimeters so I think personally I can rule it out and I did say that to. Gary and Hey said we'll all leave it up to the experts something missing persons the unit. I don't know it wasn't very clear what Gary said to me but obviously you can imagine a hundred things that he's told me in a very short space of time I think the phone call was fourteen minutes and it's something so I've found out about jurisdiction about DNA. I found out about eighty. Oh so there's a lot of information which is hard sometimes for me too. Sometimes it's easy easy to get it in an email. I guess because you can read it again to make sure that you provide to everyone listening. What isn't Braun Alison. I get that we'd love to we. We can't tell us they'll tell sally because he's the next of kin they went to talk to us on that level and you know that that's the protocol there being many he knew all frustrating us the the rules so it is it is a Lo fi today celio no and you you've handling it really will local. We're gonNA find out what happened to. I remember I said at the. Stop that you know when I went looking for dead. I thought one day I'd find a grave or Photon and and that's what I expected and that would have been enough for me and you know I told you that at the start just to prepare for that possibility and you will you immediately. Lee said look. I understand that I'm on away that my might have passed away but it's the not knowing insist the not knowing in this day and age it seems incredible in Australia. Elliot to not know what happened to your mom to have inches vanishing detainee and I think on always believed. We're going to find out what happened to you and we are and can I just is read something this. This story has kept divided people around the world and asking a minute why you both think that he's because I'm I'm not sure I understand it. I mean I have my own ideas but we've just got this. in the last two hours ago from a gone cold Laurie in in in the United States he recommends the Lady Vanishes podcasts rains everything the story Sally Strength Alison Brian is detailed in the reporting and somewhere in those details is is the answer I would love to help somehow. I lost my mom four years ago but she oldness. We'd Little Body Guy that I haven't been the same since I have no idea how sally can go on. Aachen barely do it and we'll never be the sign selley view and truly hugged me fund the ounces. My son said if it was me he would devote his Lofta finding me never ever giving coming up just like sweets Ellie. I'm barely can put into words how much my heart hoods few sally and then he offers he's hill but anyway he's a legal assistant with thirty years as plus experience who offering to help with racists from the United States and we're getting these messages from all around the world sell. How do you feel hearing that and why people people say so powerfully moved on the I don't. I don't like I've tried to be as honest Turner's openness I can be. I'm typically a piston. He wears my heart on my sleeve and I've pretty much all my life. I mean some some of those things that you've all heard particularly you know I think episode two threes probably the hardest tomato listen to personally with my dad and Monty the on there it's actually it's really rough to hear some of that stuff and of opened myself up to the universe to for people to hear my story and you know on on very grateful and very humbled by the fact that people are listening and I get messages luck that all the time like people saying. Oh my gosh you know my my heart. I give you my heart and hope that you know you find your mom and I'm very touched by that. I mean had yesterday I think he commented and she said I'm listening from Korea. So we've got people from Icelandic people. Tell us a love that they tell us with listening for them because it gives us a bit of an idea of where we're reaching and I guess yes. We don't know where in the world my mother is so the more that we can we can touch the more people that can I have no idea how people in America would even listen to what I guess because People Sheraton and I have family in America and they shared over there and Mandy Mandy. It's it's the pal yeah so I think yeah. It's very humbling. It's very humbling to have all that support and it helps me immensely like I think you and you know this loose and anyone that's has a moment in time to actually taught me a message or what have you. Oh give me a message of support at means. The world actually helps me get through it. Will they really does sell and I wanted to say something. I mean it's it's it's different for Brian. I Palmer capacity of professional capacity doing the reporting and you know I mean we digging and you know we're passionate about it but to put yourself out there like that to open your life up like that and and you know I mean obviously thankfully I willingly the comments to sally have been positive but they're all the trolls their all the main people out there and it's different from when we get trolled because when we have an open ourselves up the y Sally has put it all out there in the personally. It's deeply personal and really hurtful. You say that my eyes starts twitching. They may not actually my my I get a little bit teary just thinking about it from your perspective because when people go ellison and I can speak from oh I point of view trolled in abused a lot lawn. Luckily that substantive abolish May people's wrought to express their opinions defended an on a fond of ludicrous that would get offended by something said by someone. I don't know a stranger unless some defamatory something that I necessarily have to deal with because it affects me my lawful those on my loved personally other ones. They're attacking our audiology. They're attacking the Decyptian about what we represent what I think we stand for that Waas. They're angry at sort of issue and themselves or something else with you. it's different because they judging you and in some people can do that very thoughtlessly and unfairly and we say wooden but you've you've handled that with Aplomb Ano- on your being a mom of three and having dealt with this for so long just to talk of postseason. I'm a great believer in the strength of nights you I have a nature you're just the person who can handle that that contemplation selling not to say that it doesn't take it out of you but a lot of other people can't handle it because no one should have two and we should finish up him but I just want to say something else. We sell with this. You know just see my admiration is a double edged sword for you. There's no outcome outcome in this that will actually make you happy in some respects because even if we did find your mom well and healthy and safe then it's like bull. Why has it taken so long. Why did you reject me. You know what I mean like AIDS. There's so many other issues that come up as a result of that and then of course if something's bad ads happen or so. There's no there's no. Hughley happy ending I guess in respect like because it can't be in this one but different different areas so it sally goes into this knowing knowing that this is going to call a great regardless and that's really brave life fondue and she might just go actually just didn't WanNa come back because I was worried about how I would be received and there's it's a very narrow possibility and I'm very aware that that's probably one percent chance that that's going to be the case but it's still be a little bit sad from that perspective respect because it'd be like you eat all breaking. I Like I was just reading some some ducks for a yum speech that on doing fully the lot on which is run Boise Radcliffe. Who's an amazing individual her sister Joann went missing when she was a little girl from South Australia and she puts on an event every every year on the twenty first of October and the concept behind it is that on the twenty first of October everybody leaves they front porch lot on so that people who are missing seeing that there will come a little lovely on on on a bit of a speech for them on the Tamar. Oh my story and what's happened in my journey and what's happening now. In my journey and try to give hope to some people who were in my shoes as well as to what we can I do and how we can manage L L so because that's really important. I think come my very first interview with Uber on almost a year ago. I remember saying that I remember seeing that. TV shows of missing persons and the sisters in that were crying the whole time and this little boy you'd never met the sister was just crying constantly in that TV show and I thought that to be my life. I don't want that to be my kid's life. You know I don't want them to Croix cry for somebody that they've never met but at the same time off this part of what I was writing today was when I went and bought my wedding dress. I had nobody with me. I walked in Christmas sitting in the car and I border and it was actually ironic. Because we were coming back from thread boy after the disaster it happened and we'd stayed at my Auntie's house in Sydney the night before and found address in Sydney so actually went in ourself on our way back to Brisbane. Rice intruded on in two seconds. That's the dress and you know I think back now I've got two daughters and I would never miss that me really needs to go in Toronto waiting even when L. is drawing on formal dresses so excited to be there and see. You're looking gorgeous. Sorry you know there's always things don't miss out on not having her there. While I'm having babies and asking questions about any problems that she wore she was pregnant. You know things like that that are doc ny and what Adri and probably Brennan Lady Di Understanding that they've they've got a lot of information about my mom that I don't even know about like for Desierto. Turn around into into view inside that she used to design her clothes and get a dressmaker to make them when she was young. I've never I never knew that so that's interesting information for me to have an insight into my mom that my mom didn't brag about like see they always does. Obama includes and get someone to make them for me. But obviously you know deirdre. I thought that was really special and really talented if mom to be able to do that so they know things for me to hear and take away from this as well and go. I've actually learned. It's something about my mom is well through these journey yeah so I can. I get what you're saying. It's it's it's the sweet word is becoming quite what you know number one in my vocab because it is bittersweet. I don't like talking about the fact that she's potentially did we'll mood or had our identity stolen like there's so many unanswered questions which we still have on answered you know even even now we've been doing all this hard work and trading through as much as we have done the things that we've done together to try and get the answers which internally grateful for so yes here we sit. We're GONNA get them in Selley. You've you've you have an overall instead of Tom. You people have often said to urologist. It's time to move on. It's time to move on that puzzles me because you know for my dead for the best pilot twenties and all moved on with Marla while I was doing it and you've moved on with your life. It's not what you've been sitting around. Just thinking about your mom. You've got your family you and your husband to build a magnificent lafi. Associates hasn't held you back stopped you from doing doing anything that there's nothing wrong. We've looking your mom because she you know she didn't. She didn't tell you look. I'm leaving now. I want to be sitting you ever again. She just vanished. Uh of course it's only natural to look for her doing the right thing and we're GonNa find the answers so everyone listening. We're GONNA find them with the help of the well. Now the millions needs of people around the world who have taken this to heart and all the other things the other legacy of all this is that the next person is going to have a much better chance handsome funding their mom or dad or they missing relatives because of the changes that have already happened as a result of the lady vanishes went talking to inspected detective Glenn yesterday. He said that one of his plots will be to make sure that every missing person long-term once they reach twelve months of not being assorted no fan will one hundred percent half to go to the car and that will be one hundred percent part of the name so happy happy because you know there's so many people who are you know if if you jump on facebook and you have a looking at linking into some of these you know luckily a lot on for example you say what are the people like me going through every day. It's not just me you know people were missing and it's from China line. Selley will transform the why the case is a handled right from the start Yep. It'll just what happened with the amongst guys want happen because of what you've done and what we've. We've enlisted us to help you do it. It's it's it's already. There's that and of course the other big thing is the relief of knowing that for me that was the big thing honestly feed the worst. I actually found my dad and he was a law to know him before he passed away but the a mind thing for me was the relief of knowing and the thing of that was massive for me on no it's going to be for you and I'm confident. We're GONNA give you that and just as as we sign off and I wanna thank everyone also just a quick shout out to stores right from the beginning Jen June we mentioned Joanie and Christina Christina Milian Kelly Van Castle. Yes I do those great supporter as well. Thank you bill I just I wanted to just thank you all once again. Because bill is Jane's husband Yeah Billie Jean Claude Zara. Oh good all right well. Thank you very much everyone. We'll see you again soon. Have a good week.
Can we stop festival deaths?
"This is an A._B._C. podcast one Saturday morning last January nineteen year old Alex Ross King Quarter minibus to Fi- music festival in Sydney she'd taken about three quarters of of an M._d.. M._A. Pill and was drinking vodka and juice on the way in not long after that Alex took another two pills telling her mates she didn't WanNa get caught with them. By police as the day went on the temperature rose to thirty thirty five degrees and by the afternoon Alex wasn't feeling well and went to a medical tent at about five PM. She was rushed to a hospital in Sydney's west a few hours later she died and a nineteen year old has died from a suspected drug overdose that Ah Music Festival in Sydney's Alexander Ross King the latest victim of a troubling summa trend Alex rescues death is one of six recent drug related deaths music festival's. I mean New South Wales. Those deaths announcements of drug related deaths at music festivals will be put under the microscope with the judicial system's possibly inquiry and it will look at whether they're young laws could have the inside of course they're the victims of drugs at music festivals giants and I'm Stephen Stockwell and down the signal. We're looking at the New South Wales inquest into the drug related deaths of six people at music festivals. We want to find out what the inquest has discovered about these deaths and if it has the potential to change drug policy in Australia so this inquest started on Monday they were family and friends of the young people who've died experts and medical voices as well well as emergency services and has been there covering this story for triple. J's hack program well. It's ties with doing a few different things firstly obviously looking into the circumstances around those deaths what went wrong whether there was enough medical help whether the place with doing the right jobs in what festival organizers could do to change their behavior but interestingly. There's a a lot of broader things that they're assessing as well. They're looking at harm. Reduction Strategies things like drug checking or pill testing whether they'd be effective. Effective they'll be looking at things like drug amnesty beans and whether those would make any difference in making music festival safer but they're also going even broader than that. They're looking at why young people take drugs to begin with. We heard that there are a lot of young people use drugs at music festivals and they WanNa know where that comes from what kind of Papal Take Drugs and why is so prevalent specifically the use of M._d.. which they've found is the drug of choice at festivals? These are able to give us a real insight into what happened to these people who they were and what we can learn yeah and often after death like this the police don't release much information so it's hard to draw comparisons or conclusions so this week's helped us understand the circumstances around the deaths of people like Alex Ross King we heard that she sort of sporadically took drugs recreationally with friends when she'd go out and had sort of experimented every now and again but she'd only takes sort of one maximum two pills. If she was out with her friends we heard that she had taken a minibus to the festival and on the boss she sort of skuld a bottle of vodka and so she was quite throng before she got there and then really interestingly about Hook has she got there and saw police and sniffer dogs and she freaked out so she took all three pills that she had in one Gore because she didn't want to get caught with them and we know that this as a trend that happened in the past people get really worried when they say police and decided to take their drugs so the counsel assisting the coroner said that's something we need to look at police and their presence really backfiring and causing people to take more drugs than they usually would. We heard in Alex's case that it was unusual for her to just take all her drugs at once she'd usually you know pretty responsible in terms of spreading it out over a long period of time in his case when she she took those drugs. What was it that that actually kills her was at that there? Was You know dangerous substances in them that she took too many of the of the one drug well what we know about all of these cases including Alex is that M._d.. Was the main. Main cause of the death in the case of Alex it was empty may toxicity so essentially the M._d.. May caused an adverse reaction within her and that caused her death but in the case of Diana new and for example Shea he died at Defcon one loss gee we heard that she also died as a result of M._D._a.. Toxicity but she took the exact same amount of drugs the exact same type as drug of drugs as her best friend and a part of the evidence that where'd U._T.. Here over the next week or so is why one person can take exactly the same amount is another but then die when the other person's completely fine. Can you give us a bit of an overview of WHO's been giving evidence to spike the Vin a a bunch of different people. We've heard firstly from the counsel assisting the coroner who spent months kind of gathering all these different information about the different deaths in what what sort of led to them. We're going to hear from medical experts this week we've been hearing from the friends of some of the victims friends who actually with them in the late up to this sort of lost hours and what they kind of experienced as well and we've also heard from the families of these victims it was just really moving being really sad to hear from some of them who just wanted to show that their kids were alive and that they had purpose and that they wanted some kind of change. There is a lot of ground being covered at this inquest this week and next like how people react to drugs and also react to seeing police at a festival and one of the other consistent details in these debts has been the widow they've been at some festivals so it's been in really hard which also looks to being a contributor so that's something that's being considered as well yeah. There's a lot being discussed but almost straight away this real headline grabbing figure popped up that more than ninety percent of festival goers are using drugs yeah that was really interesting. You know I heard that on the very first day of the inquest the counsel assisting said you know up to ninety percent of music festival. Go is used drugs the vast majority she even said New South Wales Health Datta has found. Ninety five percent of people at festivals anecdotally used drugs and that was used as sort of the the main con- of Hook for a lot of the media stories that came out the following day the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald which is a local paper in New South Wales. A huge local paper had that on the front page and it was pretty pretty interesting. You know what my mom was like. Wow everyone takes drugs at music festivals and I was like no that's definitely not correct so we SORTA dug further into into that and we got a statement from New South Wales Health. They said that that was an inaccurate fica and they said that it was a different study which was looking at festivalgoers and their perceptions of how how much drugs people take and we sort of delve date taper into it we've done triple j Leeson Ah surveys and we've asked people whether they take drugs and that ninety percent fieger does not come up at all and we sort of crunched the numbers looking at a range of different surveys and found you you know maybe less than half of festival goers would take drugs but ninety percent certainly threat number. The point of the inquest we heard from the very fist day was the car and I was saying drug use Dawson discriminate a lot of people take drugs. It doesn't matter what your background is all these young people who died with bright members of society contributing working studying and we need to change this perception that young people are crazy drug takers because otherwise we're not going to get any meaningful legislative change in this space. Do you think having coronial inquest like this is an opportunity for for the way that we all look at this issue to change. Definitely I mean off to these deaths happen. The New South Wales Premier Gladys sporadically when she came out and she said I don't want these festivals to happen here again. She's been asked repeatedly about pill testing which experts have said is is a good measure to introduce to reduce harm among young people and she said there's not enough evidence to show works. It will actually encourage young people to take drugs. Pill testing gives people false sense of security. He'll tasting doesn't deal with overdoses. He'll testing doesn't deal with the fact that what he's Sipho. One person isn't Cypher another person. Some people testing doesn't deal with the fact that mixing drugs and alcohol is a lethal combination <hes> I he I he what some people are saying but as a premium as the later of New South Wales my job is to keep the community safe what the New South Wales government in particular and governments around the country really worried about. Is this idea that we don't want to encourage people to tight drugs in any way and there's a lot of concern about harm reduction measures in that sense you know we saw the same debate happen with safe injecting rooms where you know the mentality is that if people are going to tight drugs when all going to be able to stop them so the idea of don't do drugs isn't sinking in that's what Experts Cape Say <MUSIC> <music> so the New South Wales government has repeatedly said that they aren't going to introduce bill testing as you just heard the Premier Gladys Belgique Leeann says pill testing want help with voices or take into to account how drugs affect different people and bad he's relevant to this enquist because it seems that in the sixty s it's looking at these people didn't die because there was something dangerous mixed into their drugs they dont from M._d._a.. Toxicity of complications from that right but the purpose of the drug taking process isn't just to find out what's in it. It's also about getting people who might be about to take drugs into a place where someone can talk to them about the risks and there is a lot of evidence that things like that things like talking to people in checking their drugs. This can make them think about what they're doing. I think people generally are afraid of illicit drugs and I understand that and I think people worry survey children and young people and all of us want to reduce the harm from drugs. This is Professor Alison Ritter. She's an internationally recognized drug policy scholar at the University of New South Wales. The underlying belief is that if we stop people using drugs we will reduce the harm and that's true what doesn't. Doesn't take into account though is that people are using drugs. Most people go to a music festival using drugs and that's our reality and you know that's what's hard. I think to confront that we do have people who are choosing using to use illicit drugs and name with question. Do we choose to do something to reduce the harm associated with that would do we try and just stop buggies altogether Alison Ritter reckons. This inquest has the potential to change how Australia deals with drug use so we've been talking about seems like harm reduction services injecting centers pill testing and decriminalization of US possess for years and years the evidence has been around for years and years but somehow in the last maybe twelve months. I think there's an appetite for change. I think this much more willingness for governments to look at these solutions not just in New South Wales but the pay Queensland other jurisdiction. I think governments are recognizing that we can't just continue pretending that people don't use drugs and we need new ways of responding and reducing the harm promise existing drug use closely first-round Leeann of various governments around the country state governments watching what's going on here. I think it's a really important inquest. Our drug laws are all driven by the states and territories so I think what happens pence here in New South Wales in relation to this inquest around this music festivals will certainly be watched by the other jurisdictions. I mean I think they wouldn't be government in Australia. That hasn't been thinking about the issues associated with safety at music festivals and that isn't aware of the issues around the availability of pill testing and also issues to do with decriminalization of the personal use of drugs and h jurisdiction has got interesting all of as complex.
17. Baby Steps
"Case of Marian Barda mother teacher friend missing for twenty. Three's now showing that. He was going to banish that visual the bizarre circumstances surrounding disappearance. I'm not shark or the intentional or something more foul of forty if you could imagine a teacher coming straight from. You'll have the courage to the that was marrying badeah Willie for marrying Badeah dater alive. I honestly believe somebody has that case of information in the relentless quest of daughter to find her mom something happened. Something has happened to make her. Leave I am one hundred percent. Show one hundred percent show that somebody is something Delight vanishes episode seventeen. I'm Alison Sandy and on Brian Seymour. Before we stopped just a few days prior to the launching of this latest episode. We celebrated the one year anniversary of the Lady. Vanishes podcast and although we haven't yet found out what happened to Marian we've made significant progress and had many achievements they include Marian being placed on the National Missing Persons Register for the First Time Ever New South Wales police delegating a dedicated investigative team. Whose sole job is to find out what happened to Marian Marian's case being referred to the New South Wales coroner who will soon determine whether she will. Proceed with an inquest. The restructure of New South Wales Police Missing Persons Unit which now has a much stronger and more vigilant focus on the long-term missing in this episode. We will go into some of the events leading up to this. Massive milestone the emergence of a team of superfluids who are as dedicated to finding out what happened to Marian as we are and of course you millions of listeners across the globe tuning in and supporting sally in her quest to find her mom from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you we can assure you. Sally is anxious to keep. Everyone informed along the way as we creep closer to a conclusion. This is what she had to say a few days ago as we know. I'm allowed to really tell a lot. I'm actually at the point with them. Within telling me much at all at this point Dave instructed me that any information that he's new to the case Is for the coroner only We'll be handed down in the brief of evidence to the coroner and it's not for general. Consumption is what I was told. Sorry appreciate that you know. We work really hard to get it to that point. We do have Lisa falls police looking into it seriously and investigating it the way. It should have been done a long time ago. And it's now before the coroner sorry You Know I. I'm happy that it's in that in that place at the moment because of the current Ivars. Yeah look I had a phone call from the OAC on Friday and she advised that they would be a potential pushback. Judaism Cova nineteen scenario. Yeah given it's all day. Doing and given the current ivars is really only been the last month that they could actually say yes that Tampa investigation. Surely they would. Have you know we had a lot of leads that you guide them as well? I mean have they given you any progress will nice no progress whatsoever I guess From their point of view they don't have to dictate to me what they can tell me They can only tell the car in the information that they've gaining and That's pretty much how it is. I think I think the fact that I'm working with utilizes well probably scared some a little bit that if they do tell me something it might be that. I say it on air and I'm not supposed to or something to that effect which is just that they followed up on them would be enough. Don't you think if they even told you that with the following up on any overseas connections at least Nor the only thing I've been told is that Interpol data does So when you leave Australia for example your records held here within Australia However when you get to your point of coal set for example when my mom was supposedly going to Japan her stop over Anything AFTER THAT. Initial stopover is held by Interpol and Interpol. Keep the records for seven years as sorry although they are trying to get that information It's being told to me. It's highly unlikely that they will have any success. During the length of time that it has been so sounds Ernie telling you what they can't get as to what if anything. I have gone correct. Yeah Yeah Look I can probably share with everybody that The car in a has referred the case to the crown solicitors and I have been told that they have accepted Said they will act on the behalf of the coroner for the family on behalf of the family. So they're supporting the car enough through I guess potential Enquist Coming up down the tracks so that was positive for me. I felt like we're heading in the right direction for sure knowing that That is being put in place by the car. I'd imagine scholley after all this time and all this potential ongoing pushback that by the end of July you know one way or the other about inquest. Look I'm pretty sure that would be the case. Sally says she's been told that. Should the Karner received the brief of evidence from New South Wales police at the end of July that an inquest could be held as early as November December? This year in a statement a spokesperson for the coroner said the state CORNA has granted police in extension of time to prepare the brief of evidence which is now. Did you buy the twenty Fifth July? Once the brief is being received the state coroner and counsel assisting will carefully review all the material it contains before determining whether an inquest is necessary. She's also being reassured by New South Wales police. That should they find Marian? They will tell her one hundred percent so. I ask that question again when I spoke to her loss and said Can you assure me that if you did find her that you would tell me? And she said that yes. I would tell you whether it was good or bad Even if we found her alive and she didn't want she didn't know where she was. I would still tell you. It's being alone. White bought fondly. We have the results about in cat. Hearing which took place way back in June the twenty fourth last year. If you want to read familiarize yourself with exactly what took place during that hearing. Please revisit episode twelve refresh. Everyone else's memories in cat is a new south. Wales civil and administrative tribunal. It's where anyone can go to sort out disputes. In Sally's case we acted on her behalf to try to get access to documents about Marian in the police investigation fall which had been heavily redacted when we applied for them through freedom of information laws. We finally received a response in the last week of December whilst we didn't get everything we'd hugged four. We did get some new information. I've been trolling through and thanks to the released documents. We now have a much more descriptive. Case file which reveals in part the extent of the investigation and cleese up some of the pasta anomalies. Which we've been trying to grapple with what they show a full periods of activity on the case firstly a nine hundred ninety seven when sally initially reported Marian Missing then in two thousand seven when Sally went back to the police because ten more years had gone by and there was still nothing from her mother. It was it this time Marion was finally referred to the Missing Persons Unit. The 'em he and put on the New South Wales missing persons registered more activity in two thousand and nine and then again in two thousand eleven when significant pressure was placed back. I'm Byron by detectives decree the matter up. It's important to note that the police file is also riddled with arrows and not just minor typos. Marian's name is frequently incorrect several times. They've listed her former surname as Smith instead of Brown. There's also Wilson Spilt W. I l. s. I n. backsta Bata Spilt B. I. T. O. R. Theft Reta wrinkle and Mahjan and at one stage. They even confused her Gender Calling Her Warren Batter. These wrong names weren't inconsequential. They will often the basis of proof of life searches to financial institutions and government agencies. The case file also close up. Why Marion was removed as the face of missing persons week in two thousand and seven spite the Kathryn Jones recalled this matter on the circumstances of it being pulled as the face of missing poses weakened twenty seven. She confirmed via nights and files at the reason for the decision not to continue as many as part of missing persons wake was that in that particular year. Their focus was to be imposed going missing. Who suffered some form of mental illness? Despite being involved with daughter of missing person for several months and making arrangements for to be utilized in front of the media it pays the not enough thorough checks might on the missing person and she did not infect suffer from any officially diagnosed mental illness. It turned out it was only the opinion of family members that she was mentally ill at the time for disappearance in order to decide the credibility of the campaigns that year the decision was made not use this particular matter in the media campaign. It wasn't until this time that proof of life. Chicks even started to be undertaken in relation to Marian this email from senior constable. Steve mcallister of the New South Wales Missing Persons Unit was dated ten th of July two thousand and seven Berry. I read the comments on your case. It's not that she hasn't renewed a driver's license. She actually surrendered a licensed reason. She moved into state. I Have Santo for request to Queensland to have their records checked next time. You're on a day shift on awake day. Can you give me a cool wakened discuss this and try and clear it up? Quick Steve but it wasn't cleared up quickly on the twenty eighth of July two thousand nine. Detective Sergeant Laurie Maroni. From the tweed Byron Local Area Command issued this status report. The missing persons cases of bartering Weinstein currently being investigated by Detective Senior Constable Don King Attached to the Barn by detectives office. The missing person case was allocated to detective King on the Tenth of the six two thousand and nine protective kings involvement. This matter was investigated by General. Judy's police at this time. Detectives or awaiting results outstanding inquiries with the Department of Immigration and financial institutions prior to assisting identifying outstanding lines of inquiry then in December that same year king was replaced with detective senior constable. Gary Sheehan by the Stein's the kinds had been flagged as long overdue. He contacted the Salvation Army because he knew of the previous inquiries they'd made on behalf of Marion's family. According to the case Fall Lindell BACA director of the Salvation Army family tracing unit forwarded New South Wales Police Old Documents Hill by the organization that relate to their attempts to lung kite botta in nineteen ninety seven and again in two thousand and three documents show applications made by Sally Laden and her grandfather John Wilson but did not show any of the individual inquiries that will made with what agencies your is an email from the UK branch of the Salvation Army. That explains this searches for Marian. Whatever they may have been were not successful. The documents also stated that on May Thirteen two thousand and ten New South Wales. Police spoke with Linda. Baga about the suggestion that the salvation army have Lloyd guided Marian during this searches com. Ms Baga said that according to all records available to her there was nothing to suggest that was the case the case fall continues check on call tonight and only information that has been attached to. This case isn't information report. In relation to crime stoppers file which or may not relate to the pay. We presume this is referring to the anonymous tip off to crime. Stoppers that Marian was buried in Paddock at Alma dial in New South Wales blaze undertook a search of the alleged area. But there has been contention as to the amount of time and resources involved. The fall shows on the one day and one cadaver detection. Dog Approval has been given by the commanded tweet Byron Lic for investigators to travel to Amadeo and conduct a thorough search of the area described. And all right has been submitted to dog squad for use of a cadaver dog and local amdahl. Sas will be utilized. It is anticipated that the search will take place from eight. Am Tuesday ten August twenty ten and yes it did Ryan the entire day dies later on the eighteenth of August. The Missing Persons Unit sent another rocket issue sick and request for outstanding material in relation to long-term missing person. Marian Bata Background Trim File D. Ford Slash twenty four slash seven one two seven six was forwarded to your command in relation to a number of outstanding items in this missing person's case the items or status report was requested to be forwarded onto the missing persons unit within specified twenty one days comment. The Police Service Hand Bouquet Missing Persons Standard operating procedures clearly state that investigation material east to be obtained within a specified time period. Erico Jan Trim. Indicate that no items allstate is report has been received at the missing persons unit as requested. It is the expectation of the state. Karna that all necessary material be obtained in all missing person cases in a timely manner. Without exception the missing persons unit requires the investigating officer to supply the requested information and provide an explanation in the event it cannot be obtained. The following information is still outstanding and these to be obtained as a matter of urgency. But the least is blacked out. Crime Hook Acting Inspector Manager of the Missing Persons Unit investigations continued at a steady pace about the situation. Well and truly changed. On March the thirtieth two thousand and eleven. When sarge Julia Dean from the Missing Persons Unit operation for Rennes to the tweet bar and luckily command sent this email? The Missing Persons Unit is currently working with the state. Coroner regarding the long-term missing persons cases an audit has recently been conducted of the missing posters Datta base and cops and a significant number of long-term missing persons cases have been identified in which there has been no he seventy-nine Bay report of suspected. Death to the Corrina form submitted section. Thirty five of the current is act. Two Thousand and nine states police have an obligation to report a death. All suspected death want satisfied that no further enquiries can be made as to whether a missing person is leaving or not the officer in charge of the investigation must report the matter to the coroner depending on the circumstances this should occur as soon as the investigator is of the belief that the missing postman is now deceased and in any case. Twelve months has elapsed. The Missing Persons Unit is now requesting that pay seventy nine bay foam bay submitted via email to the end to the state coroner for the above matter or advise why this course of action cannot occur if this is the case. The original event is required to be updated. Accordingly this will ensure that the missing persons unit is in possession of the most current information available relating to the investigation and will also assist us in liaising with the state corrina where appropriate plays respond to this correspondence within twenty one days of receipt. These is particularly significant as it shows. Marion's case was not oscillated. She was among a significant number of long-term missing people whose investigations had not been handled properly. It's worth noting. This email was sent in two thousand and eleven but it wasn't until two thousand nineteen a month after the lady vanishes podcast was launched that the missing persons unit was finally disbanded and replaced sergeant. Deans correspondence also appear to trigger a much? More urgent response once again. A litany of proof of life chicks. Where my to financial institutions government agencies and other police then a breakthrough the discovery of Marion's name change on my the fifth two thousand eleven to take to senior constable. Gary Sheehan advised sand. Cath boughten from the missing person. Jin that he might. I fear discovery after chick with day. Fat The Department of Foreign Affairs and tried revealed. Marian had applied for a new passport on May the Twentieth Nineteen ninety-seven in the name of Flora Bella Natalya Marian remedial with assigned date of birth. He asked Sanjin Bordon to make some checks with. Marian was still in Australia and possibly still alive. This showed Marian or at least her passport had returned to Australia on August. The second nineteen ninety-seven that was enough for bar in Bay detectives an email dated September. Twenty two two thousand eleven from. Shane gave five reasons why they strongly believe. Boorda was not a missing person and had assumed a new identity without telling her family. Here we go those five reasons were number one in nineteen ninety. Seven bottom made a decision to travel overseas. She resigned from her teaching job. Sold the family home and informed her daughter that she was going to go to England for an indefinite period of time during which she may seek some teaching work records hill by the Department of Immigration. Show that Badeah. Lift Brisbane Port on twenty two June nineteen ninety-seven on Korean Air flight. Number eight one four to Japan after which to London reason number two records held by the Department of Foreign Affairs and trade show. The bottom made an application for a new Australian passport. On Twenty may nineteen ninety-seven. These application was in the name of Flora. Bella Natalya Marion Remco born third of the Tenth. Nineteen forty-five and indicated on the application form than Bata had changed her name by Deed Poll. Although it did not show in which state or territory or on what date the name was changed raisin number three further chicks the Department of Immigration. Show that on twenty two. June nineteen ninety seven. When bought lift Australia? She was traveling on Australian possible at number. L Five seven three three zero nine five issued in the name all blacked out reason number four. The Department of Immigration also holds documents showing that on two August nineteen ninety-seven this Ryan possible number. L Five Seven. Three three zero non-fox was presented by passenger entering Australia at Brisbane Airport on Cathay Pacific Flight Number C one zero three the accompanying incoming passenger cod showed that the passenger was nine black doubt born third of the tenth nineteen forty five and that she was entering Australia as temporary visitor. The Con- showed that the passenger was residing in Luxembourg and intended to stay at the Novatell Hotel in Brisbane for a period of dice. Jake's have been night with Novato Brisbane however records are no longer available for that time period. Police believe that the details about place of residence and duration of Stein Ustralia Fictitious and the final reason number five the Department of Immigration has no record of the Australian possible number being used since the second of August nineteen ninety-seven and it expired on the twentieth of May Two Thousand and seven. The report then confirms despite numerous checks no other records have been located and no attempts have been made to access Marion superannuation or other bank accounts at the Commonwealth Bank national in the name of Botte CI and went on to argue that he didn't believe it was in the jurisdiction of the New South Wales Corrina given barter was not a missing person in the true sense of the word and not a new South Wales visit. He indicated lighter that he had approached the coroner's Office for advice about its jurisdiction in the matter. But that advice was blacked out on seventeen October. Two thousand eleven sergeant. Julie daynes sent this email in reply to detective senior constable. Shane's report as disgusted. Now phone call below was the comment from Chief Inspector Paul. Russo walks the manager of the MPU in relation to the above missing person. And you'll request to have her removed from the New South Wales Police Missing Persons Database. Having read the attached file am of the opinion that one intensive investigation by police indicates that missing person butter has by choice changed her name and left. Her family to the family have apparently accepted that. The missing person has voluntarily estranged herself from than three. There are no fees held for the safety of the missing person based on these points. I approve the removal of the missing person status from this file and that it should be recorded as an occurrence. Only the families should be advised of the family reunion options. Should I decide to make further inquiries? Chief-inspector Russo's seventeenth of October twenty eleven. Hope this helps and I will organize for this to be removed from our. Mp You database. Thanks for your thorough investigation. Sergeant Julie Dean. I guess the other thing is I remember when we started this podcast. Your question was because we're talking on. I six maybe twelve episodes or whatever you'd be like so we haven't found after this time. Remember those questions and and here we are. Just keep going Ali. That's the thing is we just stop. Yeah I posted something on facebook the other day just to let everyone who's interested invested in the story that we are still looking and we're still doing lots of things like We had I lady. Who is a listener contact The lady vanishes and said that she had found some Incoming passenger Qods dating back to the sixties and Seventies. We also had our journey had also found them and They were Johnny Warren. And my mom traveling to Fiji They've really handy things to have. Because we can compare those now against the current Incoming passenger cards that we also have that sort of shows me a lot. I'm but people are really still vested in Cain to help me find the answers. I've got loads of responses. The other Jay from the people are still Really Pushing for answers and hyping That we get there in the end We have the the super sluice electrical them. They still you know going hot every single day. We've become like family in our in right. And if we're not talking about the podcast or the lady vanishes or trying to find something new To help us investigate and health food Like if we can find something that's helpful. We have found a few things that we have given to the. Oh I see To investigate and He's been confirmation that she's looked into those things but nothing really to mention. That's come to light. You know US really taking the bull by the horns and actually doing the best. We actually can to get some answers as we always said the whole y. Along is we. Don't stop until we get. Yeah well that's the goal you know I didn't put myself through this and my family through all of this and You know internationally with my story for me to come out the other end with exactly the same result which is not knowing what's happened to my mom. Sorry that is definitely not my goal. And I'm definitely not going to lie back. I did think it would be a bit quicker than this. Probably silly of me to think so but I did have a little bit of that. We might get some more answers Foster than we have done. But you know kudos everybody who's trying because at the end of the day. That's what's going to help us find the answers this Having that support and having people constantly looking at constantly thinking That's what's GONNA get us. They're in the end nothing. There's been something else we've discovered as well. This has nothing to do with the in cat documents but concerns a medical procedure. Marian underwent on the gold coast before travelling overseas records show. She had a colonoscopy and historic examination of a guest. Rick Biopsy not a rectal chamber as I thought so. There is no evidence. Marian had a potential cancer or any other element which may have been caused the concern. We can also reveal the pilot who was the father of a child. In Marion's class is speaking with police. He denies being the mystery. Men Sally saw in Marion's cow not just a few weeks before his trip overseas. We keep racking our brains something. We may have missed. Maybe there was more to Marian's final correspondence to friends and family than we. Were recognizing associate professor short JANA heighten. I'm a forensic linguistics. I was asked to look at whether or not things that Marian and produce model train influenced in some way The question for me was there some ways in which could in my language some indication that Marian was rushing on the scene to somebody else are some of the kind of thing that we're doing linguistics. Would some kind of method to analyze the language of the lesser and to identify whether There's some different the twain the structure and the use of language that that was written along that was written nonsense from England. Whether there's a difference between that and the earlier ticks that will provide the truth. Takes a birthday cobb some usually? We're looking at things that the person writing the license would not really be conscious of when they rising quite easy to manipulate your Your vocabulary but a much harder to manipulate something like the grammatical structure of these. Same people are not really conscious of that when arriving so those are the kinds of things that way usually analyzing America some systems. Four analyzing that kind of thing but put aside It's not very robust. We have a lot of difficulty in finding something live. Kind of the equivalent of Jianye or fingerprint in people's writing and I guess the other thing about authorship is if we think about Marian letters I mean we're not saying that she didn't brought from With saying that she might have the Monitor. Somebody else's influence suggesting that somebody else wrote gone onto ninety seven letter Tonight to have but she rosia however forensic linguistics is not an exact science. The other thing that Mada thing useful would say something like some of the tools that we have four lie detection if we don't have a makeup can distinguish between Linguistic features of the tapes Lockhart joked about the clinical medical places vice on older shape. You know is there. Something else could apply to the analysis to identify shift between the rising in the early attacks. The first Ikot and the writing in the nineteen ninety seven for example. Marian was talking about Her plans for her travel. are over the coming months And the fact that she might he's dying in England. We know that really. She was intending to come back to Australia. Almost immediately afterwards. Then there's something not matching their. What she knows is going to happen but she's coming back to try and what she's talking about happening. Which is going travelling in Europe and so on Matt Shop so in one way we could cyber the folks who there of course. There's a few holes in that argument one is if she came back to Australia or if she did she might not have knowledge. That was going to happen. She Modified Rushing metlife in nineteen ninety seven with malicious desire to mislead the rate of the analysis is further frustrated by the type of meaningful correspondence available from Marian at the time if she kept a diary all something that allowed her to write. In any depth more educated conclusions could be drawn about her situation at the time. One thing that you find interesting at a qualitative level was the tech show evidence about a sense of trepidation about the trip. Europe lily linguist or even a forensic linguist to identify this. She says I'm saying civil is to have a poodle explore and a bit of a rest. His soul tackling Europe. You know this some kind of on why to talk about something that she would extensively really excited about tackling Europe again. You know. Maybe she's just a little bit more concerned about traveling in a foreign environment Home counties England is pretty safe whereas traveling to continental Europe modifying a little bit more threatening for her For just fairly innocuous race and not to do with anyone that she was concerned about pseudoscience expressing all of worries about having too much Might be that was weighing heavily on her mind. If you'll just palm by the sound of it also doesn't seem to be any evidence that there was anyone influencing her rushing per se but we can see that her behavior or what she's feeling and everything is consistent in the two years separating Those that correspondence bollocks. It doesn't say out of the ordinary that you know with with the way that she writes. Yeah that's right that's right. I mean looking for psychologist came to me and said you know we think that if we can see evidence incoherent in her rushing that would be an indicator of particularly of Mon- psychologists air winless in Arkansas as a linguist. Yes I can show you. Love her here. He can see a copy of Professor Hayden's full report on facebook page. Where still waiting for news on whether an inquest will be held into? Marion's death as soon as we hear something you be the first night and we still want to hear from the woman who missing stars on our website. Www dot the lady vanishes dot org rotting in German. Thanks to all of you who've anonymously scientist tubes including the addresses of people you think Monte Marian we've been checking them all. Please keep the information coming and remember the tips on is not the theories or suggestions but information you want to share with the team jake our facebook page for the latest updates. We think this year we will solve the mystery of Australia's most baffling missing persons case once and for all sally during these crazy macron virus how you and your family typing we think functioning very well. I think considering I'm kind of lucky because I work with Chris. My husband and Al Business Does well Unfortunately whenever there's a catastrophe or something we work in communications Business he's actually doing very be doing very well and we're very busy So that's keeping us You know normal I guess The kids my oldest. And she's a university doing engineering. It so that's a really hard cost to do. And she's busily working every day doing shoots and Whatnot online lectures so she's pretty much working steadily everyday with that The other two are just coasting along. I guess and doing the best that they can Keeping in contact with their friends house party seems to be the new red and You Never WanNa be fed. I should say in what's going on virtual. Yeah and you know what if anything we had a? We had a one and chase after noon with. Just you Dawson the kids and we did some painting and I bought some canvases and we had a great time and we will said to the kids. Maybe we'll put them on the wall in the study something to remind us of making the best out of a bad situation We all stuck at home and You know just looking after each other and being kind what are you. Can you MOM would do. If she was in social isolation who she'd probably be cranking up Lawn Ritchie and Laura Brannigan and dancing around the house drinking cups of tea. I would assume In any one now. It's my mom. Probably his tongue in cheek with that or she'd be in the classroom preparing for classes. I'd say that's probably what she'd be doing teaching. Yeah well I think she'd still be in the classroom Doing painting windows for the next The next subject. She's intending to do and She spent more Seville off the classroom. So I would say probably end the classroom listening to Lionel. Richie drinking tea that's off. It's probably what I'd say I'd like to Hartford. That's you know that's what she'd be doing so I can last but not least anything else you'd like to mention Yes I wanted to let everyone that We have been we've done my DNA through ancestry dot com. It's an interesting rod actually getting all these people connecting with me and Not just for Mum Saad but from my dad saw it as well so that's been caught an interesting journey. You can do a thing where you extract your raw data And we've done that. And you put that into Inco Jed match jed matches used to my understanding Internationally through Looking at coal cases John Deutch Etcetera Etcetera. And they run that Jed Match through the system. True ANCESTRY DOT COM And Yes we have had a zero result So we didn't have any hits or any any positive what artists negative. I say negative. Obviously I don't want her to be deceased but You know at the same time we haven't had opposed you've read against anybody Said he's in that system. That doesn't mean that. Not Out there but Just sitting in that system. We haven't actually had a result but I wanted to share with that because I've had thousands of people say to me. Do ANCESTRY DOT com to come so we have done it. It's taken a little bit of time because we've been so busy trying to do so many other things in juggling so many other balls but we have finally done it. I've got the results and Unfortunately there's not really much else to go on at this time If you knew Marian or have any information about her or her whereabouts we love to hear from you. That website is seven news dot com forward slash news forward slash the lady vanishes and you can also messages he or anonymously at the Lady Vanishes Dot Org. If you like what you hearing. Don't forget to subscribe. Please write and review our series. It helps new business to find us Presenter and Executive Producer Alison Sandy presented end investigative journalist Brian Seymour producer and writer. Sally eels sound design. Mock wrought transcripts Charlie Deli Watkins and Allison ikley graphics. Jason Blandford This is the seven news production
What's Coming Up Next Week?
"From the newsroom. At needs to come that you can. I am edge buckler. i'm lexie katara. And this is the weekend edition from the news room where we take a look at. What's coming up next week. We'll start with the border. Update from first thing monday morning victorians will be allowed to travel to new south wales without having to get a permit. He's also means have to. Fourteen days of quarantine new south wales closed. The borders victoria on july eight following the surge of covid nineteen cases in melvin in other news. And get your credit cards ready because the black friday sales coming up on friday november. Twenty seven for what we can expect. News dot com w shopping editor at wayne aqa barikot. You can expect big online fashion and beauty retailers like the iconic katainen adult beauty and sephora to slash their prices and if you laptop fines vacuum or any other form of tech needs an upgrade. You're in luck with retailers. Like amazon australia catch and bingley set to office and bargains happy shopping. Everyone we'll be back in just a moment to entertainment now. An sis rally is set to wrap up this week with the last two episodes airing on monday and choose dine. Yeah net is a bit of confusion about what happens at the end of the show so sas inside has told us that basically only a handful of the slaves make it through all the challenges right but just because they finish. The course doesn't mean pass sa selection then up to the shows instructors to dame if the celebs isis worthy and the inside actually us that this one celebrity who finishes the entire two way course and then gets told. I didn't make the hours that is not what you wanna hear. After two weeks of punishing challenges you'll be filled. He wouldn't you anyway. That's it for this episode from the newsroom. We'll be back with another update on monday morning. You'll headlines from news dot com.
How do contact tracing systems differ between NSW and Victoria?
"This is an ABC podcast. Hello welcome to corona cost daily podcast all about the coronavirus I'm health reported tyler on physician and Journalist Author Norman Swan. It's Thursday the fifteenth of October and joining us today we have a special guest professor McIntyre from the Kirby Institute at the University of New South Wales Welcome Rana High Teigen High Norma. Let's start by looking at your cities cases. I, mean it looks As I've Wilson Victoria but similar numbers of cases different lockdown measures. Victoria's still hasn't made the five cases per day threshold. You just compare and contrast yesterday the premier spiritually and was saying that she was worried more as as worried as she was when the casula outbreak started. Yeah. So I'm on my understanding is the majority of the twelve thirteen cases that occurred were yesterday were. Community transmission. That's very however at the time when Melbourne was surging beckon June to July. New South Wales continued to have cases in the low double digits for quite a while, but same to manage to jump on all the contact tracing and kind of stopped those outbreaks. So but the consenting thing is that some of the cases in this current southwest and Sydney Cluster said to be linked to the Liverpool class to was a while ago. That means if they linked that class to, Maine says been undetected community transmission happening during those two classes. So that's a concern is there is there more undetected transmission I think generally Nisa vases had good testing and tracing. So hopefully where well on top of it and similarly this case of a woman from Townsville who tested positive for covid after arriving Victoria. Probably there but there was virus detected tons of wastewater a few days ago could be circulating under the radar in Queensland Yeah I remember report of. The virus founding wastewater in in sewage. Aley beach and you know the sewage saves to be a good early warning system even the southwest and Sydney cluster it was detected in sewage in the Camden area about a week. Before the first case in Camden popped up, you know I think we should be strengthening the surveillance systems early warning systems using so edge because that's a good way of detecting. Symptomatic actions on what about this question of whether it's under the radar in Queensland and false sense of security it could be. But if it is, it's not to a huge extent because a very big outbreak you know we know that eighty percent of cases a mild or even icing genetic in a very big if an outbreak, it's big enough than those twenty percent of severe cases stop being noticed in the help system. So that hasn't happened in Queensland. So if it is occurring, it's at a low level. So can we take a step back and talk about contact tracing systems more generally we've talked a fitbit on this show in. Norman has made comments a few times that perhaps New South Wales has had a totta handle on contact tracing than Victoria. Can you talk about what the differences between the two states in their processes it's probably mainly down to resources to be honest contact tracing is something that's very core to public health. You know we'd do it for a couple of days for maizels full to book Closys it's anyone working public health department knows about contact tracing in Wyan, how to do it, but the Victorian health system has essentially been. Decimated over a couple of decades successive governments have just stripped it bare so that when the pandemic hit, it was a bare bones helped system compared to New South Wales, which is fairly well resourced, and so they just didn't have the capacity to trace the context, and for every case, you might have ten to twenty five context. So when you having, you know five hundred cases a day that's five to ten thousand plus context a day that you have trace any help to try some within twenty four hours otherwise, they're going to be infected. You miss the boat in terms of stopping transmission from the context of become infected. I needed use files. Having traced twenty cases. A day is quite a big Tusk because in one week, for example, you might have thousands of contexts to be monitoring because H. One is quarantined monitored for two weeks, and then you have to monitor them for development of symptoms. So it's huge cost that requires huge resources. There's a lack of understanding on think at some level that planning for pandemics isn't just about creating ICU beds and buying move into later we did that really well in much but that whole aspect dolf beefing up the contact tracing capacity and also beefing up vaccinators you know for when the vaccine comes. That's kind of low on the right act as it really been recognized soon enough, and it's been done on the hop in the middle of a crisis surrounding you said before that one of the big differences between New South Wales and Victoria contact tracing systems is just sheer resources, other factors at play as well like we often hear about New South Wales being called the gold standard in contact tracing is there anything in that the other factor is decentralized versus centralized public health? So Victoria has a centralized model and New South Wales and Queensland Update centralized models with public health units that functioned more or less autonomous. They would take responsibility for something in their local. Area and do the contact tracing and just by having those public health units. Generally newsouth balls has more personnel about Victorian I actually walked in Victorian in public health in the nine, hundred ninety s and It was a really good system you know but that was a time when it was really well resourced. So you could have the same resources sensually waste just getting into government kind drive off to the little towns in the country it said trouble in the outbreaks. So you can still have a well result system that centralized and one good thing about centralized systems. It says less passing and things don't fall between the cracks coins that, for example, which saying. Become established in Queensland through the nineteen eighties and nineties because essentially nobody took responsibility. So did we spin out of Control Victoria because the contact tracing system wasn't up to it or was it because of other factors the contact tracing was a major factor the two most influential things on epidemic control, our contact tracing and case finding say have to find all the infected paypal and on satellite them, and then you have to identify. All they context and quarantine them because the contexts ninety percent probability, it's the context going to be the next bunch of people who I infected, and if you don't identify all of them, you lose control of the epic. How do they actually work just give us a sense of how a context or works because we hear about computerization versus faxes whiteboards how does a good contact tracing office work? So inustrial edge largely down manual. Which means that you know you identify if starting point is case the cases notified you interview case you find out the person is infected you I won't go to identify where did they get infected because it might be a huge class to that is linked to that person other people who got it at the same time. So you've gotTA DO BECUA- tracing to find out where they got infected from and make sure there's no other class data and then you've got to. Do forward contact, tracing to look at who did this person come into contact with in the time that they will likely infectious, which is generally two days before the onset of symptoms. If they develop symptoms, you'd start with the family context, which is everyone that lives in the household i. then you'd go to close friends and you'd go to workplace context if the guy to the were workplace on a regular basis and any other context, we've all heard US alerts about you know. Being aware if you wait I key on this day or in this shopping mall on that day so there's that kind of casual contact as well is a bit like a detective series where you're the penny stuff on the wall and your lines going between people. Hug, what does it look like? That is how it's done in Australia largely included in New South Wales with a whiteboard and writing out the lakes between people and that's fine when you only tries in context full you know five to ten cases a day but when you get to large numbers of cases even Thirty forty fifty cases a day. Then you're going to have you know thousands of active context being monitored anyone time it becomes unfeasible and certainly the situation in Victoria when they're having seven hundred cases a day, they won't keeping up with the contact tracing and that's where the digital methods become really useful. Yeah. There's only so many whiteboards that you can use what do the digital methods look like. So there's lots of different ways. One of the bus courses, the project SAFE APP, which is meant to serve that purpose but hasn't done for a couple of reasons. One is the uptake of it has been low. So, if there's ten people in the room, but one person has covet and Anita trade people using the APP, obviously it's going to be of limited use and the second is this been some technical issues with the APP as well. I think at at state level, there is some people are looking at other digital methods, but there's lots of other ways that you can get. Data could be from transport cards like the Opel Cod all from credit cards off from mobile phone tower. Dada. The problem I think in most Western countries is the privacy issue which has made it harder to use as kind of technologies than in Asia. said it's been widely used in Asia even in Wuhan Beck in January they ran out of capacity to manually. Contact Trice, which is saying something when China normally can drum up human resources very quickly and easily they build a hospital in two weeks which nobody else can do but even they ran out of the city to trace the context manually and switch to digital tracing. South. Korea did it very successfully Singapore also did and just stare up. I. Think that was the model for the Australian uncovered safe up. So generally, we saying Asian countries, the use of digital technology much more than in Western countries just finally if you were officer commanding what would be the criteria that you would use to just lift the lockdown steadily in Victoria is this rolling average or is as discussed yesterday the real the number of unknown source cases and how quickly you're getting on top of them yeah. I think the latter I don't look at the rate of. Ratio of testing to cases and WANNA say that that's constant. So there's no change in the ratio. It doesn't matter. You'll test number of dropping because when case numbers are low, there's less need his people. So that's fine but you need to look at the ratio of the testing K. Two cases to infections and make sure that that stings. I'd also WANNA say expanded sewage surveillance put in because that's a really good early warning system. That can overcome human resources limitations in other parts of public health. Well, all we've got time for on Karenna costs today. Thank you so much professor, Ryan McIntosh for joining us and sharing your knowledge with us. It's a pleasure nominee ticket. Thanks, Rhonda McIntyre's professor of go about security at the Kirby Institute of the University of South Wales don't send in your questions. Go to our website ABC donate useless Kurna cast, and we'll see you tomorrow Iran.
12. Leydon v NSW Police
"<music> this is a case of Marian Bata teacher friend missing for twenty two years now that he was Kinda vanish that visual disaster them stances surrounding her disappearance. I'm not a short was intentional or something more foul of fortune if you could imagine a teacher coming straight from that was marrying Badeah when he find marrying Badeah data alive I honestly believe somebody has that case of information and the relentless quest of adulterer defined something had happened. Something has happened to make relief <music>. I am one hundred percent show. One hundred percent show that somebody is something the Lady Vanishes Episode Twelve Hi. I'm Alison Sandy and on Bronze Seymour good news. We've had a major breakthrough before we get into this episode. We locked to inform you that Marion Bata will for the first time be placed on the national missing MM Persons Register in Australia and her case. We'll be referred to the New South Wales Corrina just off to one P._M.. Yesterday Sunday July twenty eight arm received an email from showing viewings from the New South Wales Police Media Unit it reads a police review of the investigation into the whereabouts of a Queensland teacher has determined that information will be forwarded to the coroner and the case reinstated as a missing person case despite exhaustive soil Steve Inquiries in Australia and overseas detectives from the Tweed Byron Police District have been unable to determine who whereabouts as part of the review it was recommended. Miss Bossa be reinstated on the National Register. Oh Inc unique circumstances of this case needless to say we're pretty thrilled. I'm yeah I'm Clyde alighted. I have a tear my I and it's <hes> yeah it's it's a big sigh of relief locates something that <hes> I have been fighting for by by myself for very long time I feel and <hes> you know it's a it's a very sad story and it's a very intriguing story which must avail at listeners on the podcast have also said but my hairy standing on my on my head and I have goosebumps all over my body <hes> look there are a lot of things that myself and you guys at channel seven and all the sleuths that have vein just constantly racking their brains and trying to come up with answers and you know just looking for information that could obtain to what even happened to like working out of time online and oh my gosh I can't even begin to say enough words on enough to to express my gratitude for all the people who take time and you know daytime out of their day to worry about may worry about mom have an idea and that's why works. I toss lay trying to answer. Everybody's questions <hes>. It takes me hours to do that but I'm I'm more than happy to do it because I I understand these people taking time out of Eh busy lives to actually help may as well and <hes>. I'm forever grateful. I really am and I <hes> you know even if my mom is alive and well and we find her <hes>. I'm sure she could appreciate the situation that I've been. I and I think that she'd be very happy tonight. People have really got behind me to help me find some answers. Although I've just to clarify Marian is not being reinstated on the National Register as she was never put on she was only ever on the New South Wales is missing persons list from two thousand seven to two thousand and eleven to now be on the Australian Federal Police Missing Persons Register in addition New South Wales police are confirming they have never lung kind of Marian and and they are reopening the missing persons investigation into her disappearance. This will be conducted by the new missing persons unit formed after the old unit was disbanded one month after we launched the lady vanishes earlier this year undoubtedly these major developments will lead to more police action on Marion's case most churches more checks more investigations and if I- coronial inquiry does go ahead sully will finally be able to access all of the documents she has been fighting for while witnesses. We found can be compelled to give evidence. It's just such a big deal that we've actually got this far and I've got. I've got Siamese table to thank because this is a long long journey of me trying to find out what happened in asking for people's help and we finally today have an answer. I'm through that the police have listened. I'm thankful that they have listened because I need them on my side. You know like this isn't about being upset with anything that happened in the past. It's about looking in the future. Stay with us now. For the wrist of episode twelve I gripping journey through the loan and difficult fought to get to this point so if you being keeping out without weekly conversations you'd be aware that Oh investigations have ramped up since I lost major episode we've chased down leads and found plenty again ends. We've issued avenues inquiry too often. I only had the final door shut in our faces but we'll also also made progress slow and steady progress. One of the biggest endeavors has been helping Sally Laden. Take a mother Marion's case to an cat the New South Wales civil and administrative tribunal. Oh in cavs the place where ordinary people can go to sort out disputes on just about everything from tendency issues to building wicks in Sally's instance she seeking access to documents moments attaining to Marian in investigation file held by New South Wales Police. We've previously obtained that file through freedom of Information Moore's but much of it was heavily redacted and we would denied access to documents payments containing the information we sought channel seven back this legal action for Sally we made submissions along with police and the New South Wales Inflammation Privacy Commissioner on page five of the I._p._C. Submission it states at common law. A person is presumed dead where the person has not been hurdle for seven years by persons who would expect to hear from the person if the person were alive where the applicant herself is close relative of the disease. There is nothing in the subject matters scope or purpose of the G._I.. P._A.. act that precludes the applicant from being consulted a close relative of the deceased will will be sufficiently familiar with and respectful of any concerns that the deceased may reasonably expected to have had about disclosure. Marian has not been heard from the twenty two years the Information Commissioner mission is pointing out her case should have been reassessed as under common law she could have been classified deceased after being missing the seven years in this emissions to uncut the police argue on a number of fronts against against granting us and Sally full access to their file on Marian these include Marian was never missing because she chose to disappear a stated in the conclusion of the investigation. The evidence available to me strongly suggested the body was not missing person but had assumed a new identity immeidiately pride to her being reported missing the have also argued we believe unconvincingly that disclosure of the documents we seek could compromise police investigations by revealing methods all the privacy of individuals or groups who supplied information on the understanding that it will be kept confidential. You'll hear more about these points and let the hats. This strongest argument is at the file must remain undisclosed because the police investigation is ongoing the claim. You'll hear alloy strongly challenge. Now hearing was sit down for one day June twenty-fourth Ellison flew down from Brisbane to join me and Sydney we wouldn't proceedings two zero nine Ariza for the one seven light and vacation policies. I suppose police schools we have an audio recording of parts of the hearing and will be playing some of it among the voices you will heed the senior member. He's the official overseeing the tribunal. He's name Mr John Makati in public access. A two thousand nine appearances is also channel seven balanced Rico in j chick. I the applicant represents the applicant satellite in solicitor Curie matty's Netease Awa s essential k. for respondent represents the New South Wales Commissioner of Police and James King the Council for the Information Commissioner not as a body remember. We are seeking access to the police fall. It's up to the commissioner of police responsible for denying that access to prove that was the correct and preferable decision. After some general housekeeping the hearing begins the applicant is miss. Sally lighten Ms Laden's mother. He's a lady by the name of Marian Bader data and Ms Bata was reported missing to the South Laws Police on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety-seven and she's never been found the these laws police force conducted an investigation instigation into Nevada's disappearance and that investigation has been suspended since November two thousand eleven in a nut show the information that is the subject of this application the information that was obtained in the course of that police investigation would I propose to buy very very opening is simply to take using him in but to to documents which conveniently set out ah the background and some of the narrative of the course of the investigation that we say is relevant if I could have mission to approach to hand until you of copies for my friends I should know that these documents are actually sitting on. They should be sitting on the file convenience. It's easy for me to him up so I'll just had copied it to my friends. During the course of the hearing Marian is referred to as a person of interest all peo- I also you'll hear talk of Cops Events Carbs C._O._P._S. stands for computerized operational policing system. It's the system used by New South Wales police officers to record jobs on the internal police Dr Device or and Sally's lawyer Rico Jiji goes on to outline the story of Marion's disappearance disappearance and explains what is nine of the police investigation into the case. One of the recurring things in rations is that there are these recurrent inconsistencies between what's recorded in the case fall and when I could refer to as the actual sandwich and just without getting into the solutions in Daytona Windy side of the place of relied on one of the public he was considerations against disclosure is having sufficient white to prevent the release of that information yes. I'm assuming the cops event is redacted as many of them. I is said when he's the information that information ahead he's seen accuracy or change of position this issue kyw's <music> we say that provides compelling grounds in support of one of the public interest considerations in favor of disclosure which we have relied on as we'll come to that those the applicants visit US shifting of factual medicine the the Substan- of Information at play whether it action yes and below the first paragraph which begins on Friday twenty January starting the next paragraph eat appeases though there patsies investigation that have not been thoroughly investigated. There's some things that are known by family members and not supported by former police notation simulate there are things that are believed by the family to be true which not appear to be supported recorded by any police station is intended to meet with family members and try to hang all knowledge then compare that with what has been documented Broccoli's whether is information that is suggested by the family but not supported by police notation more investigation Asian will take to try and confirm review that information that via the Senate. That's an entry. That's been recorded by somebody in the police. That's that's coming from the next of kin so I would say that even on the face of the entries which have been made by police there as police of saint parts of this investigation not in thoroughly a little lighter he raises another instance of police questioning. The investigation is a similar entry on page eleven innuendo which is very similar flavor. It's at at the bottom of page eleven underneath the large section of reductions and the second paragraph arrangements we made to meet with her and that's with Ms Laden sometime very soon and obtain. In a statement as there are clearly things that have occurred in the police investigation very early on that have not been documented in this case so again an explicit notation of apparent inconsistencies between what's recording the records and and what else is nine now if I can skip forward to really the the more reason events and if I can take you to page to seeing over the top of page to ration- which says report the missing the unit has been forward in relation to this matter a question hasn't risen as the ability of the New South Wales car to have any jurisdiction and do the results of the investigation. I'm of the opinion that batter is not missing person in the true sense of the word and it finishes with words M._p._U.. which we understand two main missing persons unit to adjudicate and advise so that entry doesn't appear to be dated someone at that point has recorded the view that is batteries not infect missing person the true sense of the word and so through the context around that decision it appears on page one of the same document? If you turn to page edge one senior member you'll say that right at the top of the page appeased the case title and the neath a case report number the case toddlers missing person Marion be case that is suspended and the first case narrative appearing at that point three on the page sites on seventeen October two thousand eleven ours even email from southern Julie Dean of the Missing Persons Unit which was in the form of a reply to report God replied rate is follows and I'll just start at the second part of that next paragraph having read the attached file. I'm the opinion that one an intensive investigation by police indicates the missing person Batte has by choice changed her name and left her family to the family have apparently accepted that the missing person has voluntarily estranged from them and three there are no fees held for the safety missing person based based on these points. I approve the removal of the missing person status from this file and that it should be recorded as an occurrence only family should be advised of the family reunion options. Should they decide to make further inquiries and <unk> skipping down a couple of lines. He concludes with passage as a result of this reply on seven December twenty eleven satellite and the daughter of Outta was informed of the decision made by the missing person unit. These matters visas ended so it would sink clear from the case Father in December twenty eleven or somewhere between October in December twenty eleven a decision was made to remove as bad as name from the missing persons least and to suspend bend investigation into her disappearance and again we side that is a defining feature of investigation. That's an issue in his application. He then refers to comments by detective senior constable Gary Sheehan the bar and by police officer who took on the case in two thousand nine riding in two thousand eleven next sections in comment towards the end of the investigative period the evidence available to me strongly suggested that battle was not a missing person Zain but had assumed new entity immediately prior to her being reported missing without disclosing her new identity to any of her family members. The key coins in coming to this conclusion are outlined below. You'll say that is a series series of bullet points. The first is passionately released. The rest of the first bullet point is redacted and beyond that all of the bullet points redacted other than part of the second last bullet point on H.. Two who will the first released them clearly nine two people close to date factual medicine. That's public rickles has going overseas. Yes it is and the reason I want to thank you to these documents. Senior members that given the context and what's referred to hear the key points behind the police coming to the conclusion that MS bottom was not Jimmy missing person. We say that the information said Addidas bullet points. I don't know what it is but that really goes to the hot we signs passion and to the end of the grounds. which is if you Claude had that information that might summer ause vices of the place decision in December sabotage? That's certainly and next a witnesses called chief inspector Stephen White of the New South Wales police stating what do you suddenly Cecilie declared the decision. Will you are the Mr White provided to affidavits for the proceedings. One dated may twenty nine the other dated June twenty one after he'd reviewed Marion Batas case file while he was acting Kamanda responsible for the missing persons unit. He was questioned by Al Council now. It's the case is committed to why that the investigation into Ms Bodice disappearance convinced in around October nineteen ninety seven ninety sadness yes and your way that the applicants in this case is cellulite and your way that she's the daughter of of Marian better if I am aware of and you're aware that Ms Laden has been in regular communication medication with a New South Wales police force throughout the course of investigation and you're aware that in some of her communications with police there's light and has expressed some concerns about the manner in which the investigation has been conducted acted. I personally have received thing any of those concerns bobby matter for slide in <hes> the investigating officers say the do you yourself had an understanding that Ms Liden has some concerns that the conduct of this investigation or upgrading the baseball on the company and then the documents before tribunal Ah yes and do have any of those materials given why twenty understanding on your part that was lighting has some concerns about the manner in which the discussion has been conducted. I see any <hes> material Jeez expressed concern. I understand that <hes> these hearings that is because of medicine together further Meissner life into her mother. It can be more civic have any of the materials that you've reviewed given you and understanding that Ms Laden did not agree with the decision that was made by the police force <music> to sustain the investigation to others. A guy recalled reading materials documents pointy up on the investigating officer internationally. This medal is appreciate that but nonetheless sitting here today do you have an understanding that MS lighten did not agree with the decision that was taken to suspend the investigation. I didn't say that the materials and Army so is the answer that you don't have that understanding. It might be now that 'cause I didn't read in the material operate. He can hear the chief inspector that sounds defensive. Even before specific questions about the investigation have been caught. Ask some questions about that decision commended watch the decision to suspend the investigation was made in November two thousand and eleven. That's great. Isn't it great and is you sign your first affidavit. That decision was made by the missing persons unit. That was my body then manager of those persons you yes this and it's the case isn't it committed what that now decision has been made by the missing persons unit to change the saddest investigation as one which is ended. That's great isn't it. The the status of the case is not a metaphor the person's here tonight that that's a matter for the police hairy combined with a place district that if you can just listen to the question it's the case isn't it that now decision has been made by the missing person unit to change the status of the investigation intimate Sparta's disappearance as one which is suspended or Omega Point that the missing persons nitric sorry to make a point just what what can happen is in reexamination the somebody that needs clarification from your evidence then mismatch as can raise those questions in reexamination. The question appears to be clear question as to whether the Missing Persons Unit Elizabeth to Council to contain is thank using number. I'll I'll just put the question one more time so it's absolutely agree. It's the case isn't that no decision has been made by the missing persons unit to change the status of the investigation into massages disappearance as one which is suspended misery sincere and has neither thank you witness Stephen White. It's been shown a document if I could just ask you to have a look at some parts of the document. If you start on page one you'll see the very top the word issued you say that and written underneath the other words request to have marion barter born and went read the Diet removed from the New South Wales Police Missing Persons Riverside say if if you go then to page three D._C.. The words under the heading recommendation condition which site that this fall before wanted to the missing person unit and a decision made as the future status of marrying batter you say that and you say that the author of the document appears to be Gary Shan recorded accorded a Detective Senior Constable Abbar invited detectives and then you'll say following on underneath that there's a notation number one and it appears as if the team leader of our by detectives has written in handwritten comment supported place forward to N._p._r.. Requested and you understand him to be missing persons youth las passage. You'll say there's a handwritten section action which appears to be from the commander of using says having read the attached file. I'm of the opinion that one and intensive investigation by police indicates missing person that has by choice changed her name and lift a family due to the family have apparently accepted that the missing person has voluntarily strange to sell from them three there are no fees held for the safety using person based on these points. I approve the removal of the missing Putin's curtains person status from this file and that it should be recorded as an occurrence. Only you see those words here sent you so having read that document commander what you'd agree that at least least insofar as this investigation is concerned investigation into MS bodies disappearance it was the case that the Luckily Command Ford of the Files Missing Person Unit and asked the Empire to make the decision about whether the investigation should continue integrate with that. That's what they've asked yes and in fact that's what was on well. The missing person was revealed for this person's registered that saw and that decision was made by the N._p._R.. Is and it's the fact isn't a command wives that that Ms Barda has not been who back onto missing person this hershey not the original. Could I just ask you please rather with displays be given a copy of his supplementary. I've it was available before you a copy of your supplementary David Affirm twenty-one June twenty seventeen criticize you please to look at paragraph to paragraph US state paragraph seven of my previous affidavit I gave evidence that Marion Buyers Missing Persons Investigation commenced on twenty too uptight nineteen ninety-seven and conducted by the Tweet Barn Police Area Command but why for their explanation investigations into reports missing persons are conducted by the relevant police area command accordingly. It is the commandment man that is responsible for the investigation and we can reopen the cases information comes to hint you say that is you're not suggesting there I._U.. Commander what in that paragraph that the tweet bar area command has guided decision to reopen this guy would I'm suggesting is Twenty Barn Command. Can I have in the guys independently of the boys using dozens you that you're not suggesting oil unaware of of any such decision having infecting made I you on the way of further investigations that are underway. Are you aware of any decision made by the tweet Myron area command to reopen the investigation into the disappearance of data. I'm not aware of any formal decision to do that. I'm aware of it was recorded on the sky's falling into the investigation thank you this is crucial. Command to white is saying that police are undertaking further investigations into Marian's disappearance yet. We have consistently being. Gene told by police there is nothing they can do because they don't think Marian is missing. So why is the commander claiming there is fresh police work on this case where about defined out each paragraph five of that same et plays the megawatt paragraph five paragraphs eight and eighteen of my previous affidavit guide evidence that was aware that the officer in charge of the investigation had continued his investigation inquiries into soon as bad as disappearance the reason that I was aware of that was because I had reviewed the cops case file relating to Messiahs here and observe that additional injuries had been made on the file. I have also observed that the case recorded on cops. This was now active having head. I think that should say having had further entries from January twenty nineteen say that evidence so the cops injuries that you're referring to in that paragraph were made in January twenty nineteen. That's great isn't it is his <hes> a number of entries committing genuine on yes and those injuries on the case fall which were recorded in January twenty pain they were on the case fall when designed you first affidavit on the twenty not to my two thousand seventeen with January this year that's three months after we began working on the lady vanishes and contacting place for information two months before we interviewed Detective Senior Constable Gary Sheen on camera seven years and the podcast you don't refer to those injuries at all and you either. Do you take it. That's because you didn't think it was important to revert those injuries and your I inside now. What do you think it was important to reserve me second it Kinda way that dot there was further evidence being so full of negative clarify? Might I have to say so. Perhaps if I can understand correctly. You agreed that the injuries in January twenty nineteen we're on the fall when you looked at it for services preparing your first effort either be cleaned that there's not any interest on January twenty nine hundred this increase commission January twenty odd on continuing through ought to the current certainly in respected as entries. You've just referred to even grade that they were on the fall when you prepare. I you told the tribunal member earlier that you took care in preparing first affidavit to make sure that you review view carefully what was sitting on the case fall to make sure that was accurate remember. You said that too trivial memorabilia at that point. You didn't think it was important to refer the initial entries that's great you'd be greater that and now in response to as I understand it solutions made by the applicant you then took the view that it was important to refers entries and you'll saving private. Is that correct here I say can I ask you is the officer in charge of the investigation detective Shane. He's <hes> but I take it that you had not yourself spoken with Mr Shane in relation to the activities that he's been conducting now despite news the show and can I take you to paragraph six policemen second effort either side there on the basis of my review of cops. It's my understanding. The status of the investigation into the disappearance of Ms Bada is current and ongoing and the officer-in-charge Sir Jive is taking further investigative steps when he's worked priorities meeting to do so you say that I take that the entries which appear in the case fall I take it that they don't say he for example by took this further investigative this gift set because my word parties the producer do they so when you sign your dive at the officer-in-charge he's taking further investigative steps when his work priorities seeking to do so you actually have now I've known to hear that from <hes> from general knowledge of police work in the awesome chives would not have these matter so we're going to have an under concurrently currently by saying so whatever activities my being undertaken by the officer-in-charge the fact these those activities have not been sufficient to alter the official status investigation Gatien's fires the missing persons unions concerned. which is that investigation suspended? That's great isn't it. The missing persons reminds suspended on the mission is in person trips to use is is thinking offer the questions acting for the police solicited Kyrie matty's asked come onto white how Marion being on or not on the missing persons register would affect the police investigation. It's what's The relevance Oh significant some of his name they sit on the missing persons to stop the mission prisoners national by Senate Enables Nukes Times of information between between agencies enforcement agencies who saw law enforcement agencies have access to through there is missing persons unit to missing insurance so what's the significance of he's not currently being missing persons for just a really relevant to any investigation and carried out by the afraid he's right sorry all right the county saying the <hes> they're actually two separate prices. The <hes> the case hall can be acted on continuing because <hes> the missing persons standard operating procedures quickly in in that the responsibility for an investigation risks with the bay like leary command and nail please district of questions the tribunal senior member then had queries the he's on put this question to you based on your significant policing experience generally would a missing persons investigation occur more efficiently. If the job sleman missing persons register it could be missing persons registries. There is a national dot dot advice to facilitate exchanging information agencies it could hang we got to the place. Coal function of the community size and concerns for missing persons will vein the fact that I'm in that context. If if I a job or or a report wasn't on the register that that wouldn't pay the investigation when the hearing then into a confidential session only these solicited for the police and the senior member are allowed in the room as they consider the very information we are seeking to access the confidential hearing ring last several hours. We did not know what he said. During that time or what information is revealed a final decision by the senior member is imminent but the New South Wales police did make a supplementary decision prior to the hearing revealing more details of the investigation on the thirty of the March two thousand eleven sergeant Julie Dean of the Missing Persons Unit raised concerns wounds about the lack of action on Mary's fall an audit has recently been conducted of the missing persons database and cops and a significant number of long-term missing persons cases have been identified in which there they're on not seventy-nine be report of suspected death to the corner forms submitted section thirty five of the coroner's Act Two thousand nine states police have an obligation to report a death or suspected diff- one satisfied that no further inquiries can be made as to whether a missing person is leaving or not the officer in charge of the investigation must report the matter to the coroner depending on the circumstances. This should occur as soon as the investigator is of the belief that the missing person is now deceased waste and in any case after twelve months has elapsed the missing persons unit is now requesting that a piece seventy-nine be form be submitted via email to the n. p. you and to the state coroner or advise why this course of action cannot occur eh that stage four years had elapsed two months later senior constable Steve mcallister also from the missing persons unit requested information about Marian ineffective to send link and stated they were genuine fees. He's held for his safety. Similar requests might have other agencies including banks and the Queensland Teaches Credit Union that same month to take to senior constable Sheen alerted missing persons unit about a fear Discovery Marines name charge to Flora Bella Italia Marian Rim kill another four months later on September twenty two to take do senior constable Shane requested her removal from the New South Wales Missing Persons Register. He's reasons were listed in five dot points most of which were redacted except for these two the first she made a decision to travel overseas resigned from her job sold her home and informed vaunted daughter she was going to England for an indifferent period of time and the second point based on the incoming passenger car police like I did from when Marion or floor Bella returned to Australia in nineteen ninety-seven checks were made with neither till Brisbane however records when our longer available about that police believed the details of place of residents and duration of Stein Australia was fictitious thanks to sell his application for for Coronial Inquest New South Wales police a taking some action in an email dated the fourteenth of July a New South Wales police media spokeswoman right this Hi Allison Detective Senior Constable Sheehan will soon may tweet senior investigators from the homicide squad to conduct a case review. This is routine review to determine future direction of an investigation but I am told for this case the homicide squad will discuss their recommendations with the Karna as Haruna has expressed interest are being assured that we will be advised of the outcome so we can update you when it's appropriate to do so hope this helps then four days later on July nineteen we were saved the following statement from Police New South Wales detectives have reviewed the police case looking into the unexplained disappearance of Queensland Teacher. Marian Barker was age fifty one years old when she was reported missing by her daughter living at Byron Bay in Nineteen ninety-seven detectives from the tweet Byron Police District have explored numerous leads in the case including Marines activities overseas at the time name of her disappearance officers yesterday when's the seventeen to July two thousand nineteen conducted an official review of the case with colleagues from the State Crime Commands homesites squad and in New South Wales Sales Department of Communities and justice. David agreed to seek advice from the state Karner to determine whether to New South Wales Police Force formerly has jurisdiction to farther. It's extensive efforts to find the ghost woman referral to corner is in accordance with the New South Wales Corners Act Two thousand nine tweet Byron Detectives are preparing a comprehensive summary of the case for the corners consideration so the police have sought advice from the Karna which is good news for Sally because if this leads to a coronial inquest all of the evidence must be laid out on the table however from that statement it also seems things that New South Wales police considering whether they had the jurisdiction to continue investigations the question is why are they only now broaching this issue and if they don't who does and what will at all mean the the investigation the matter of jurisdiction was raised by Detective Senior Constable Shane in his report to the Missing Persons Unit in two thousand eleven where he outlined that before winning quest concerning a death also suspected death could be held it must appear the remains of the person are in the state the death or suspected death occurred in the state or the death suspected death occurred outside the the state but the person had a sufficient connection with the state aside from a handful of years living in Queensland. Marian lived her entire life in New South Wales. She was born there. Her Medicare Cobb was last. I use their and her bank account was drained from their crime. Stoppers was called with a tip. Her body was buried at Amdahl. As far as Sally is away. This is the only coal that has been made to crime stoppers in relation to Marion's possible possible burial site. I wrote to the current advising this and pointed out that if Marianne was deceased it's much more likely she died in New South Wales. I also told her sally just wanted her. Mother's case resolved as soon as possible via an inquest and fights over jurisdiction would only delight this. We are requesting a decision be made as soon as possible. There's one other thing to note. There's an era in. The police statement we received the part which says Marian was reported missing by her daughter living at Byron Bay in Nineteen Ninety seven is incorrect. Sally was not living at Byron Bay in Nineteen Ninety seven she'd only he traveled there to search for him. This investigation has established that part of the problem for sally is that her mom's disappearance did not receive the attention at deserved Italy on including grandchild's the police officer who took the initial statement from satellite and at the barn by police station on October twenty second nineteen ninety-seven and marked the incident as an occurrence he's now retired and when we visited his house he was away so we lived a poster of Marian in his later box several days later sally and die managed to reach him by fun. Hi Graham Alison Sandy from the Senate. Look how well thanks that's good. I'm joined by Sally Hi Graham Harvey. You would have seen the poster we left. We we kind of his e last week. We are told me into place connive atoll this after the initial report police nothing was noted Marian's case fall for ten years. It was two thousand seven before Marian was placed on the New South Wales Missing Person Register and that was only after OCTA sally had contacted the USTRALIAN federal police. The lack of action has been almost as baffling as Marion's disappearance itself. We hoped senior constable Graham child's would be able to provide some clarity. I'm not sure if you remember I know that <hes> Gary Shane had told me that he had spoken to you. <hes> back a long time ago like two thousand eleven and ask you if you had the recollection of the case of my mum <hes> being missing person and and he had said to me that you didn't have any recollection of it but <hes> I wanted to call you and talk to you. Come to you and say you and just say hi and to see if we could get a bit more information. <hes> now that you're retired from the police will be really really really honest with you win. Gary Shane rang me. I had <hes> just the pay just recollections can imagine twenty six police force getting up to sixteen so <hes> it is a long ago and look the water as possible breach reaching more than two you any informational look. I'm a party and shake returning the more than happy to give you the tiny time with me again multiple couple of months ago. Someone told me I heard more than I wanNA podcast. I think that the unserved aren't interesting that not relevant but I am. Dan didn't really vaguely remember you coming into the station and I remember I think we he contacted the federal. Police will host someone in relation to really that's about all got on edits. That's really terrible. I'm I'm really sorry I'm not able to give you anymore but really camping in by. I know it's a longtime ago and I I obviously guest gathered that there was a lot of things but <hes> that obviously happened after that with you working there obviously trying to remember every particular <hes> posing coming in is difficult. We responsible for those sorts of cases oh I would they referred to I mean had what was the process but what would happen <hes> when someone comes into report someone machinery <hes> a lot of people talk about that <hes> all GonNa be using for twenty four years nine out. That's not actually the case. It's familiar anyway certainly haven't dealt with a lot of missing persons <hes> that <hes> normally we would either General Jeff Schiller would just be the candidate take the report <hes> recognized as we would have well given the logging onto the computer making enquiries and then posited usually pass something like that on there was suspicious. Circumstances uniform always have didn't have the tone torn probably the access to be looking at <hes> I find records all bank records that would have been passed on allocated by case manager to one of the detective Nice. Let's cases and less suspicious circumstances. Would you put it as a missing person case earn occurrence because I think Sally said at the initial stages it was just listed as an occurrence all things we used to put on cons peds so anything could happen was an occurrence and it was just recorded as an occurrence and then determined from the duty case so I would have to look at all the things occurrences that had happened <hes> and any cases would have been allocated to to take or whatever that may have for the call on <hes> you know obviously when someone comes in and does I am fourteen and you know had my house breaking into whatever it might be very jobs rally tied to the appropriate people so this would have been the signed her case manager look at it the case manager within disorder who university and to be on a wouldn't think missing person and who have been missing site so she left to Australia on the twenty third of Jane and she'd been in contact with me up until the first of August. You're an I came in to see you in the Tiber so it wasn't <unk> from thome side still type two months she had by contained in the screen things that would've been a long time. I would've imagined you would have told me that. That was a long time between fan coils selley tries to Joe Oh grams memory by recalling the circumstances that led her to go to police in Byron Bay and questions how he made the conclusions he did in his report to Tiki really in relation to money drained from her mother's bank account. I'm just trying to work yet. How that information would you have gone says people questioning this crime and saying well? Maybe it was a local like it's a country town. Maybe he just walked in new the bank manager any off the bank manager information or would you have had to go through a process through Komo thank to get information. I don't guessing I'm ten pure speculation that it would have just been a fine call to the local bank. Okay it would have been a phone call they would have pulled up the records and ahead looking and that's why would have been caught by the wrong it would just be all during the Komo of McCoy everything dive down at the bank son. Just to clarify and occurrence entry is basically to report an incident with no investigation required that means any missing persons report would have been done in retrospect and that only happened a decade lighter on guessing for the fact that it's written off as a currenly so that would've meant knife further investigation at this stage that there was the moms come back into the country or whatever happened. There's no suspicious circumstances we just recording. There's an occurrence so I'm guessing that wouldn't have been assigned to anyone who would there'd be no further investigation from me well. I can't see anything like this on the freedom of information documentation. It's got your that statement and then jumps to two thousand seven nothing in between would be that would be right because it's an occurrence. I really appreciate your time like it's. It's means a lot that you're actually talking to me because you've been at key person in my mind I mean obviously Gary's been working with me extensively on this for quite some time but <hes> you know pretty much since two thousand eleven he's kind of said to me. They've suspended the case closed the case and he's into todd and he can't do anything more <hes> he has indicated to me that there's more to than meets the I bought that he's hands of todd so it puts us in a pretty precarious situation relation where we're trying to get some information and do the research ourselves <hes> or would I would love to be able to say I remember talking to <hes> mother and and being able to pass it information on my content anymore because she didn't want to have been none of this. <hes> actually <hes> very very sketchy sort of <hes> memory over the war thought that there's so many things you you do inside many years just didn't stand out say. Would it be normal behavior if you own practice. If you ring me until that you'd like. Would you have written that on the fall yeah. I'd like to think would have been on may not have and that's up decided that I didn't get dining in but <hes> I can't imagine <hes> and I'm sorry this is all summation because I can't imagine going through <hes> so <hes> <hes> I would imagine or would be anyone that would do that. Honest I mean and you're right on a good going. I know is decorated. Policemen Michael Exploit them so very seriously <hes> but if I did do that sounds like I fell down on my job boy not recording. It sounds like you know probably twice keep their stiff so if I did ring it's Pretty Pretty Lalji of my record breaking up tight system. I'm doing my friend. Call so pulling down the also bad about that. I don't know if that was the case. I mean I guess do you remember actually ringing somebody. Somebody'll oh speaking to somebody that Mo- what's really hard to believe that you wouldn't remember that I mean twenty cheese for short eight. Overstep doors didn't more people with a lot of those things for minimum furthermore <hes> and and please. There's no disrespecting this one person coming into station making report of a person that all recorded as an occurrence iron so it's it's it's low probably on the memory style and please be a standard border of obviously very person disrespect for that at all really appreciate life from your point of view. I mean there's only so much remember. It was a long time ago. It was twenty two years and you know it was in the whole scheme of things in a in a place like Byron by and you've seen it grory from I mean back then it was probably still a bit more of a sleepy sleepy town was it oh rental rentable by sixteen pelissier. We used to close the door to live nickel Morton. Go Hi there was my police in Bahrain after Granola so <hes> in a very different now I guess as sixty four seventy police here very very different. Tam and I said I mean we used to coming up at the door and there was my committed to seep in the front yard so it was very different places that I'm not in the place where was anymore so I got nothing to hide them. You Know Cook my problem with <hes> saying it was oh how it is and and and what what what is unfortunately the same compass said for detective Gary Sheehan who sang familiar chain in his lightest amount of Sally dated fifth of July Two Thousand Nineteen. He said he understood Sally's frustration but he had to quote work within the parameters that a dictated to me by legislation he said if the status of Marion's case changes he would certainly speak with Sally and take appropriate action if required some fantastic news we can tell you about the New South Wales Police is is establishing a new probably resolved missing persons unit one month after the lady vanishes debuted it was announced they were disbanding the old unit which had filed to probably investigate dozens of long-term missing persons cases this now I have announced project Alathea to form a new unit of seven detectors and four analysts along the state of the art technology to probably handle cases like Marian bodice. It's it's a big win Frat team and for Sally and will hopefully prevent families in future from living through the ordeal of losing a loved one without knowing how a why and without the full and proper assistance of those tasked with the responsibility and the power to find the next week we go back to Byron by to catch up with some people about Marian strained bank accounts Guy Right and we get some tips from Ron Eagles also nine as the good cop model size shame nothing belaid nothing chick every <music> <music> if you knew Marian or have any information about her all her whereabouts we love to hear from you. Website is seven news dot com that I you forward slash news forward slash the lady vanishes and you can also messages he or anonymously at the Lady Vanishes Dot Org. If you like what you'll hearing don't forget to subscribe please right and review our series it helps new listeners to fundus presenter and Executive Producer Alison Sandy present to end investigative journalist Brian Seymour producer Dorada selley ills sounds on and mark wrought transcripts Charlie Deli Watkins and Allison Ikley Graphics Johnson Blandford. This is a seven news production <music>.
When is a strip search not okay?
"This is an ABC podcast on the young children. And if I thought that the police felt that they were at risk of doing something wrong odd. Want them strip-searched. Say you're you're comfortable. Twelve and fifteen year olds. Having minutes of a juvenile justice. We have to ten year olds. who were involved in terrorism activity? That's the New South Wales Police Minister David Elliott. And the reason he's talking about a hypothetical strip search of his kids is one hundred twenty. Two underage girls have been strip searched in the state since two thousand sixteen. But what does the lowest I about that. I mentioned off wok. Yeah but I'm Stephen Stockwell doc well and today on the signal the murky rules that govern strip searches okay. So you're on the street. Maybe walking being with a friend. It's early evening and you're on your way home. And then the police drive cost and for whatever reason they take an interest in you circle back and and they start asking you questions and things escalate start with the conversation. How's your day going Blah Blah Blah? But then that kind of get down to business and just tell you what can we are conducting search on Yeah just get up against the war hands on the wall Legs of hot knife. frisky they don't seem to have a raisin but they just do it anyway they just say that you have to consent to the search because they have a reasonable suspicion they now. I'm underage pretty much every time. But they don't really seem to are the a care or think they have like have to do anything else because I am underaged I just said to me anyway. And that's all he is seventeen years old and the practice of underwrite strip searches has been under a lot of scrutiny in New South Wales thanks impart inquiry by the police watchdog into seeks cigarette cases. And then this week Donna released under freedom of information revealed that figure that one hundred twenty two Andrei goals. Those have been searched in the last few years including two twelve year olds and up to hearing that journalists had a lot of questions the minister. David Elliott Strip search tools. That we have in New South Wales have been will use. Of course they haven't always been used according to the standard operating procedures and anybody. That feels that it's been done. Aaron ously has who's GonNa have has got some replied to that thing and bill twelve months of the fifteen year old boy. Can you say Jason Sandwiches twelve year old girl away. Should these trips all having been municipal juvenile justice. Yes these satisfied that saying done too great. Thanks giving that in all of the thousands of concessions and realized for as I have been found alive so thirty four percent of them have been and found guilty one twenty three being obviously. I'm committing an offence outside. Your kid was the one buying the drugs one of those. I'm thirty four percent. I think you'd be pretty a happy that I got found out. Okay so on one hand. The government is said look in general these pals being used in the right way but at the same time there. Is this review going on. And the thing that's emerged in the white the story has been covered is a general uncertainty about exactly what police are that to do. Yes so we called Dr Viki Centers. She senior lecturer at the University of New South Wales who specializes in policing through stages. The first is police nick. Respect from reasonable grounds. Ah Fat you have drugs on you all something stolen or dangerous item and that allows them to do a general search so general search which is when they can Tikal Foschi Tyco Jacquards or your outer clothing and Mike and do what's known as pat or Frisk search through a strip search etched. I've got much narrower stricter criteria so police office can only justify a strip search where they suspect on reasonable grounds that it's it's necessary to conduct a strip strip search and in circumstances that are serious and urgent as to Mike the Strip search necessary necessary. So what Powell meant when they use this particular. Wording serious and urgent is something akin to an emergency sake. But unfortunately the legislation doesn't spell it out in any specific terms around what serious emerging Maine's So those the rules about strip searches for adults. And it's pretty much the same for kids with one big difference for children. The only greenlee rule that distinguishes strip search child from an adult is stripped such mouths bay in the presence of the parent or Guardian or it is not a parent or guardian around or the child doesn't want de parents. They've been independent person. WHO's not a police officer Okay so the rules that has to be a support person. Then yeah but even that rule has exceptions look provision a word in such a way that you know. If it's likely to result in evidence being can failed or destroyed or if policital immediate such as necessary Gave a person but those would be really limited circumstances so the the Louis does side is a mandatory rule to have a parent or guardian in their. What exactly does the lie about? How much of an emergency? It has to obey the police to go ahead and search someone. Underage without a guardian or support president. Doesn't it so unfortunately precise kind of legal questions haven't deigned tested in a court. We have had a number of cases in relation and Kyrie adults who have taken some civil action against the police way. The courts have said things like wow in in particular circumstances where they've suspected adults with having drugs on them That the police clearly didn't turn their minds to what series Men and in those circumstances just I suspect that someone had dragged on the morning make base financing criteria but haven't tested the mandatory provisions Asians in relation to children on that certainly elect law enforcement conduct commission. which is the Independent? Watchdog is considering these questions arising from a sixteen year old girl who was strip searched splendor growls. The commission is investigating where the police engaged in serious misconduct by strip searching sixteen year old girl at Splendour without the presence of a parent Guardian or support person to police officers who gave evidence today both said they they had little memory of this edge. The constable was involved in that search and he can say his official record of it was wholly inadequate and certainly they were admissions by place in that questioning by the leg that I didn't turn their minds to that to that question. Russian realize that I had to have an independent person or parent. They okay okay so the rules are kind of rubbery in the would yeah and then. There are exceptions which are also defined in a pretty vague way and they haven't been tested in court so that question about whether blazer going about strip searches. The right way isn't settled. That sixteen year old at Splendour in the grass Vicky mentioned is at the center of one of six cases is that the police watchdog in New South. Wales is looking into at the moment inquiries being run by a body called the law enforcement conduct commission all lick and so we know that there are laced fix allegations ovalles mogul strip searches that Elec themselves investigating One one of which are had a public hearing in the others designed to standard Private hearings and so. We can make a determination as to whether they was a serious misconduct police misconduct involved in any particular strip search and that could make a whole range of recommendations around Connor. Some more broadly around systemic institutional issues as well as finding but not criminal proceedings. And the Lexcen like cops make any determinations around any kind of criminal conduct so one of fame quarries which was subject to a public hearing has just wrapped up in temps the hearing elements and I understand that. The lake will conclude the deliberations shading finding that I believe towards the end of the okay so the inquiry side of things is likely to go quite for long earliest a couple of months while investigators try to work out whether those strip searches and breaking the rules and even though they're only looking at those six Pacific cases reckons the fund report will recommend changes the low unable to be nicer. It needs to be clear and it needs to be narrow us so it can better God plays and so whether the lake will look at reform to the law is an open question but certainly we would expect. Dick would be looking at the practice of New South Wales Police holistically and systematically as well as the actions of individual officers you talking back kind of broad the wording around when police cannon car strip search people just a matter of police also just not knowing when they're able to that because accused the wood and use abroad a couple of issues. One one is that we as the public expect that police follow the law and the police Dr Mike The law but in practice every day unfortunately the way in which police God by the law can be a little bit mystic can be more a sense of common woman sense or how police think things should be done by ought to be dom. Okay Laura Foam is one option but another option. It's changing the instructions to police about how they interpret the existing law and in the meantime there are those figures showing just how many underage girls have been strip-searched is one hundred twenty two. It's kind of tricky thing right. We hear about one case here and other case there might be something that goes to court but it's hard to get a sense of the big picture with. Did you think this was about the number that was happening luke it's really onto sane thing authoritatively around police Dada on strip searches because we heard from the leg where police on ours was signed at least one. Police officer admitted jot fanny recorded officially strip searches on the police computerized system with I found something. Now we know that generally the majority of strip searches around sixty to to sixty three percent. Darn find this really begs the question around wait under-reporting strip searches so whilst there are about about five and a half thousand strip searches both adults and children each year. Our personally concerned that This may be the tip of the iceberg burke infamous evidence systematically police under reporting strips such as we also have an issue around Strip searches very broadly defined finding the lower as well it on the law says that a strip search might include removal of old clothing but Strip such can also include police directing the person to lift up Fisher into examine they bought bay body or could include pulling out a person's pants look down at their underwear or they genitals said the police themselves don't really understand where a strip search begins and ends and that's a problem for two reasons. First I might not be recording a strip search in the proper way they might think it's a general search and secondly if they don't realize that conducting a strip search they may not be affording people there brock's around mandatory rules around affording people privacy having the least invasive search and as Seigne relation to children requiring there to be a parent Erin independent person. I have a question. Do you have a right if a police officer stops you and says we we want to strip search you. We think you have drugs. We think whatever whatever they raise if they say they want to do that and you say no. I do not consent what what happens to you like. What are the consequences for that? So it's really important to tell police that you daren't consent to a strip search by you should probably cooperate and so the reason why you should say they don't consent is that Van Legally Maine's that police lace Half full are the legal criteria Because I can police Person agreed to be strip search so therefore legally. They didn't nate. There was serious urgent seconds chances. And that's why it's really important to say that you don a great content the center all right that is for the signal for today and swingy sitting around. Took your friends about your favorite podcasts. I mentioned us. Tell them to subscribe. So Yeah Yeah you should actually we can you on every morning so yeah we'll be back tomorrow. We'll catch you then you've been listening to an ABC podcast. I discover more great A._B._C.. podcasts live radio and exclusives
Are prisons the new asylums?
"This is an ABC podcast. When Australia closed down its asylums in the ninety s there was meant to be a new system to replace it. The idea was that people with severe mental illness would still get the help I needed just not inside the four walls of an outdated institution. But that's not always what's happened prisons now annua solemn and we've got literally hundreds of people with severe mental illness in prison. receiving often I. I ever treatment I managed lovelock yet and I'm Chris Dan Gate Today on the signal asking even begging for help and not getting it the people let down by Australia's mental health system and the extreme consequences of that failing. In some ways, this is a story that begins several decades back just as a starting point was the main model for care if you're really mentally unwell in USTRALIA. In the second half of the twentieth century I think a lot of paper would bay familiar with the idea of asylums. That will cold lunatic asylum pisces full people with really severe severe mental illness. Worthington she's a reporter with the ABC's Investigations Unit and she's been working on this story for four corners, and that was a model that was used extensively until people started becoming aware that those with mental illness being marginalized discriminated against human rights violations that were being abused and this process of institutionalization. Kind of wasn't the best model of care and that kind of came to a head in the early nineteen nineties with the inquiry into the rights of people with mental illness an eat kind of back the idea was. Presented into the inquiry that institutionalizing paykel with mental illness is just not it's not the best way to treat people and that if you have people going out into the community, there is an immediate and dramatic improvement people's functioning. So the idea was that paypal would be moved out of these asylums and hospitalized Khanna settings and into another environment, a harm environment that be more support in the horns people with mental illness and that they would be a really a a real shift in the way that these illnesses will managed. So it was a slow process over many years but these institutions was shut down and the idea was that the funding that was going into those institutions would be shifted into a community based model of care and that's what all the states and territories moved to So that left there a few places. If you had really severe key mental health episode can go to an emergency room, then a psychiatric hospital ward or receive care in the community. So the idea was that. All of the money that was used to run those asylums would be going to community based support. Did that really happen what they experts that we've spoken to this story argue is that the promise that state and territory governments which shift responding and spend money in this new community base model of care they say that that promise was broken by every single state and territory and that they just has not pain enough funding going into that community based model, and so that is leaving people in really desperate situations who unable to get especially for the series and. Acute Lum high end level of mental illness They've just been unable to get the care that they need, and that's definitely the story that we heard from some ways that we spoke to on these. The story would got full cornerstone features for families waste by two probably dozens of families over the course of research for this, and they just told us that they just could not get what they needed from from the system in in different states as well. In particular you've been looking at a number of cases where the worst has come to pasta and violence has occurred. So I suppose from the outset how significantly does serious in untreated mental illness contribute to the right of violent crime in Australia, what we know about that? I think it's really important to say that people with mental illness afoul lots that it be a victim of con- than a perpetrator of violence and that's something that mental health advocates and people with a mental illness of worked together really hard to try and get the message out of the paper. The mental illness are not dangerous. But the fact is that there's a very small number of people with really serious mental health names that do commit violent crimes and the data we got from the East Joint Institute of Criminology, showed that around wanting tin homicides of the pop decade were committed by person who had some form of. So, ease factor and I think these stories a really difficult to tell because we don't want to stigmatize people with a mental illness and there's been great advance. In the way we speak about mental illness far more than we did five or ten years ago. But these families is to us is that That openness the awareness-raising for mental illness and talking about it hasn't really been matched funding at this Avia knaves ended the spectrum and that's where this issue of laws. So. As I mentioned, the Investigations Unit has spoken to a lot of families who've tried to get help for a partner or child and hit a wall repeatedly before something awful happened. But there was one story in particular. We wanted to ask her about about a guy from Sydney for the purposes of this story with calling Michael Michael was diagnosed with schizophrenia what and he was in his early twenties and he had a little boy this little boy in twenty twelve and he was doing really well, he was working he was taking his medication. He's family tells us he knew he wasn't he wasn't well. And they managed him really well and he managed to illness really well. He was very. Loved his son. He took him everywhere. He said. Shoulder? Don't like Sao proud father. Site if he wasn't doing well, guard pops into hospitals. So Waco Chase medication adjusted, and come back, go back to work and leave. A relatively normal lives. So He's pot now obviously knew he had schizophrenia and they they will living happy lives. Exit. What happened is that after the little boy started school in Twenty Eighteen Michael started to get a little bit unwell and the family just thought okay. You know it's time for an adjustment will head into spital and it will be what usually happens and he'll get his medication sorted. He'll come out he'll be fine. So they took into Hornsby hospital, which is a hostile. They'd had a really good experience within the past and he went there in April of twenty and eighteen and he was admitted strategy why they sound. So, our hospitals to twenty eight days and during that on there were mistakes made. Doctors so him and James that he just wasn't taking his medication so that he was having his psychotic relapse because he was a noted here until I called on compliance I, refusing to take medication. But Hey, was having a long acting injection of anti-psychotic the last two weeks that he was having that regular family that he knew that was on his medical record but some reason that message gets to the people who were prescribing medication. So the doctors decided to change him to renew medication. And when they did that they miscalculated the doors. Because I presume pupils and tornadoes thing. All Ready. So what happened is that he was prescribed a low toast join Joyce of anti psychotics before was in hospital. So at this point in time, the family doesn't know any of this he's in hospital and he's actually improving because he's on the all drugs and on the new drugs and so he's titled Blood, level of medication increased just before discharge. So he was doing well but then to is after he's discharged things Stott going really bad. He starts saying that he thinks his dad is the devil but his son is the devil and the family realized that something is very, very wrong here. But he gets a little bit confusing talking about. You know the day will goes something right that. I keep molitor him. Keep pushing him was strong with him but he seemed to be. Not Get any. Or not getting better, he stopped eating, but he still take medication from discharged from hospital. So he's care was transferred from the hospital. He's local community hells team, which was in another healthy strict. An aimless crisis what we now Nord from the report into the incident wave attained is I didn't properly transfer over he's medical file in enough time and the. Health workers in the new district also had the assumption that he wasn't taking his medication. So each time he went back in for his appointments they presumed again, there was an issue with him, not taking his medication and kind of free prescribed it. But because of the System Bang underresourced that went enough psychiatrists on duty to save him at times he went in the report that we obtained shows that he really needed an urgent face-to-face medical of, but there were no appointments available. So there was so many opportunities in the following wakes. Someone to say that there was something that wasn't rocks. So for three weeks Michael's condition kept deteriorating despite appointments with local mental health workers. So he decided to go back to hospital and when he went back the nurse on JD said look, there's no beds available and his mother, the grandma a little boy played played in and said, look he's really unwell. He's saying he's done the devil he really needs help AIDS medication sorted out. Something's not right. That, he'd just commit a hospital. And that he was having thoughts that he some was the devil. A play to with our. God never played it's up to my life. please. And their response was that they could take him to emergency white for maybe more than a day or they could have cool an ambulance to get the taken to emergency and the family at this point. Martha. Was Really Unwell and they just said we'll just take him harm to sleep and without taught my son to come out with. And he's got no one. Go home when coast go to bed it, I'll be okay. Cal Sleep sleepy till. So the next day he woke up and took himself again to the mental health clinic and at that point there was a worker it was original understaffed and he was distracted JUCCI competing demands. That's what the report says. So he goes again alluring to save a mental health. and. It's not picked up the following day. So two days after he's turned that hospital, he kills his five year old son. Morning Five year old boy has died after being stabbed in a horrific case of domestic violence in Sydney, a thirty, six year old man believed to be the boy's father has been taken into police custody. He's currently being questioned sources close to the family say he is a victim to a man who tried over and over again to get help. If your son had been admitted to hospital that Day d think this would have happened now. Definitely no because he would. Got The help he needed he would had medication Saudi that. He would have been fine. And we would. We wouldn't be here today. Michael was found not guilty of murder by reason of mental illness and he's in secure psychiatric care. Now, his family still supports him and they see what happened as completely preventable, and in fact, the New South Wales Health internal investigation into the incident which ways obtained bicycler says that. They did the actions of the department contributed to the relapse of his slack sacrifices. So it might his condition was. So imagine taking your child's Hospital Sa- treatment and they come out worse than before they went in and then after a continued series of attempts, things just get worse and worse and worse. And I. Think you know it says it all a letter to the parents the health department bright was that. We extend out deepest regret that we were unable to provide your son with the care and treatment he required and deserved. So it sounds like there is an understanding at New South Wales Health about the role that they aside had to play in this tragedy. Today's conducted a full investigation and they've said to us that they did find care and communication distances. which requires is I'm but also that report may nine recommendations and they implemented all of them. But what they wanted to point out is that last year they were five point eight million client contacts with community mental health workers in New South Wales, and these kind of event is. A rail but I don't think that that is really much comfort to the family has lost their five year old boy. And that Patton of not being able to get timely K. is typical from what I heard not just from the families of patients, but also for mental health professionals. So Dr Olav Nielsen is Forensic Psychiatrist in New South Wales prisons. Now, a new asylums we've got literally hundreds of people with severe mental illness in prison. Receiving often there I. I ever treatment stepping back and. Looking at all these cases, is it an overstatement to say that asylums have now been substituted for prisons? What the people who studied the experts site is that? A lot of these cases have presented to mental health services in the weeks before a an incident like a homicide occurs and that is kate indicated that there is an opportunity. To intervene and to get these people the care that they require and. Tragic cases happening with monotonous regularity You know we know this about Half a dozen homicides by the mentally ill in New South Wales every year about half of them have presented to. Middle Hill Services. In the weeks or two beforehand. So, what's happening then is that a lot of at ending up in prison, which is sometimes the first time that they receive through the forensic mental health system the proper psychiatric care that they actually needed to prevent any of these things from happening. So what the experts we've spoken chase is that this makes sense that it will have to commit hurt horrendous volunteer before they can get the kid they need, which just really shows that the system is totally broken. It's happening the wrong way round keynote completing dodd into the system isn't it? to the only way, you can get good treatment and the trenches getting the forensic mental health system is the best treatment available. Is By committing a tragic defense you know is. So the story least kept hearing was one of undefended services. It's quite fragmented because it's different in every state and territory have been efforts to put more money into mental health beds and community mental health services. In different states, I think what the experts waste by. Really told us is that over old chase still quite late it's a really situation and that just hasn't been enough funding from any state or territory, and that needs to be desperately improved and then needs to be kind of a holistic approach. Everyone needs to what to get there needs to be a high holidays air available in every state and territory. That's the signal. For today you can see Lisa's story in full on four corners tonight at eight thirty or after woods on you, and if the story has raised in issues for you, you can call lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen and we'll be back here tomorrow catch it in by. You've been listening to an ABC podcast discover more great apes, podcasts, live radio, and exclusives on the ABC listen. APP.
So what's the chance your coronavirus test is wrong?
"This is an ABC podcast. Hello this is corona cost. Podcast all about the coronavirus. I'm Helter Boorda. Take Tyler on physician and journalist author Norman Swan. It's already Friday. The twenty ninth of. May and we've had some weed cases this week Norman. There's been the kids in New South Wales and we don't know where they got the virus from there's been some really what seems like really long incubation periods. There's been all sorts of weird stuff going on. Bring us up to speed? Well I think the fastest way to bring you up to speed as to say this is a virus that we don't fully understand yet and things happen as we speak is might change by the time people listen to this podcast but as we speak. I might understandings to schoolchildren in New South Wales. Our community spread origin unknown. So they don't know where they've gotten from. That may become clearer as time goes on. There's still again at the time of speaking. It's unclear what was going on with this young man in Rockhampton central Queensland who tragically died and then we have the live export ship with crew being infected. And we've got a situation in South Australia. Where jurisdictions arguing with each other of how that happened but it just all goes to show that we can't relax. We've got to be vigilant. You've never quite sure where this virus is going to pop up and I think it also questions just how much longer we need to keep up the border controls between states because nobody's says pures driven snow on this the It is a difficult thing to control and as long as we got the systems in place. I think the risk between states is pretty low. But we've got to remain vigilant. Well let's answer some questions from audience. Ravi is asking about. They were meant to be getting married in June these he in India obviously international travel restrictions are postponed their wedding to November but Ravi asking what are their chances of getting married thin. We'll Robert can understand your frustration. Here I would not bet that. By November international travel restrictions are going to be raised to the extent that you can safely travel for a wedding. I think you're looking at twenty twenty one and particularly after who's the vaccine. You mentioned the vaccine there. Norman Felix is asking about that to asking about some comments that you made a couple of days ago about the clinical trial testing. The Corona Virus Vaccine Felix is asking. Do Vaccines Need to be one hundred percent effective or could they be sixty percent effective which Felix says could achieve immunity? Well if you influenza immunization it has variable effectiveness and certainly not. One hundred percent is far from one hundred percent. We accept that doesn't acceptable vaccine. Because that's all we've got. It is possible that the first vaccines for Corona virus will not be one hundred percent effective that they'll give you forty fifty sixty percent coverage which is better than nothing. The question is what do we do with that information? The other question is how many jabs do you need to get even forty or fifty percent coverage? I think it's early days yet. And how we deal with that situation is going to be interesting in terms of herod immunity which factors the correct term here because that will be truly hurt immunity with a an immunization. Anything about sixty percent will give us Quite a significant reduction in risk in the community. Sorry let's talk about some research now and we have a test that can tell us if someone is infected with corona virus but have reliable easy test. We kind of hear that sometimes it can come back with a false negative. How much can we rely on these tests question teagan and there's been paper in the annals of internal medicine which has actually reviewed? I think seven studies of the reliability this test. We've said this before on Khurana cast that nobody's fault. We had to get tests into into the field very quickly. They've not gone through the sort of testing the tests normally do and therefore it's only now that we're seeing just how accurate these tests aren't it turns out. They do fall over in terms of accuracy. Now the false negative rate means if you do have covid nineteen virus on board SARS COVA to your face with as far as what are the chances that the test will miss that and a false negative and it turns out that the false negative rate is significantly? Could be one in five depends on when it's done but when they summarize these seven studies of the PTR test for the virus it can be one one in five and maybe sometimes even more than one and two so early on the day. You're infected almost. Every test will be negative on day. Four after your after your infected just before you're you come up with symptoms more than half are false negative drops down to about one in five about day eight so other words. That's about three days into symptoms and the average is about one in three little bit over one and three so that's quite considerable and it could explain some of the things the anomalies that we're finding so feeble saying. Oh well what about this where I you hear stories where somebody was positive? They got a bit better than they were. Negative or positive again is probably just the test. Royalva venue being necessarily reinfected and for anybody listening to us who save. You've got loss of taste. You got fatigue cough. You don't have to have a fever and test comes back negative adair so later I'd be going to have another test just to see whether in fact you're positive because you can't rely on it it's pretty demoralizing to think that there's maybe a fifty chances to whether you're actually getting an accurate result from the test. We need a better test. We NEED TO BE TESTING. The technique needs to be better. Like what's The answer here? Well I think that needs to be investigated. It's not entirely clear could be that. The test isn't unwilling off. The Swab doesn't go to the throat. They don't get enough sample on the swab. There's all sorts of things that could go wrong and it may not be the test itself all the time. It may be just how the test is being done. How well it's transported in the medium to the lab. All sorts of things can go on. Because there's a whole series of things that happen when you do the test we'll say what's the point in testing then the majority of tests comeback accurately. So that's the first thing to say it's the best we've got and it's helped to control the epidemic. So the proof of the puddings in the eating our testing regime contact tracing isolation quarantine has worked in controlling the virus and stopping community spread. Yes we've got these tests popping up just means. We've got to be vigilant so it's actually worked. We shouldn't lose confidence in that. It's the best we've got and we can't abandon it at all. It just means we've got to get better at it. Which means that people doing? The tests need to be checked. Are they taking the swabs properly? It means that nobody in the whole chain of this starting the community ended up in the lab and the contracting. Nobody can let down their guard for a minute. So carelessness of corona hostile. Nari that a few weeks ago we in partnership with the Art Gallery of New South Wales launched. An art exhibition called together in not kids. The first month's theme was in a world's we seven hundred eighty four submissions absolutely fantastic between An Age range between five and twelve. And you can see the final exhibition which is twenty five works online and you spoke to. Penny and eleven year old. Who described her? Yeah Penny is one of the artists that submitted her pace and it was a beautiful. I'll let her describe it. Actually my work is of a go. That's on the swing. The swings connected to tree that has no leaves which is on a hill in the background. You can see a million and some buildings and what makes the go stand out from the rest of the CIA? Well in the go. I made her really black. We've pitches imaginary creatures and other things that you might happen you in a world and she has moved callers to make her stand out. More Penny was one of hundreds of kids who took the time to paces as you say Norman and she told me about what her life has been like under looked at and just been out of my friends very much and she really misses them. And these clearly sums up for her how she coped that the coronavirus has been going around. We kind of like feel alone sometimes but with when we have like a an in a world it can I got selves can happy and also learn where we have our thinks that we dream about. I love that. What sort of things are you dreaming about? What's been helping you and your in a world at this time but my in a world. I like making fun stories about heroes and other people so now is the second phase which we promised that we would have. It starts on the first of June and the guest. Artists is an Indonesian artist. Who's lived in Sydney for many years? Giamatti whose work is very evocative. Few full of magical and spiritual figures it's media. He works in sculpture and painting and so on. Psg Mati basically a lot to do with relation migration and displacement and hope and memory also history of places of people of time. Yeah I guess. If you're talking about my work is a often deal with the situations what. I'm hoping for for the Second. Space is there You know to get children doing creative Approaches to express their feeling their emotions or they're efficient word is happening within them and also their environment especially during this time. So That's phase two together an art kits and if you want to submit a work from you as a five to twelve year old or if your parents of a child and you wanted to submit your child's go to together in art dot Org slash kids. They're be able to see the exhibition. Find out how to submit an artwork. Well that's all from the Koranic cost curry this week and before we go to everyone who's left a review for us on apple podcast. Thank you. I'm glad so many of you joy and value this podcast and I just WANNA say five stars to you and we'll be back next week on Monday and as usual questions and comments can be left at ABC dot net us slash corona virus and leave the name Corona cast in there. So we know that it's far las. We'll see on Monday.
What Happens To Your Opal Card Data
"On August twenty third the trains in Sydney collapsed a mechanical fault at townhall station kicked off severe the delays across not just the city out in the suburbs stuck between museum in central unbelievable that half an hour for Pez can cause eight hours of delays. Can you still call it a delay. If it's seventy seven minutes three hours spent commuting today on Sydney trains my train tonight was so overcrowded that a woman literally early passed out all because of a single incident that happened when at five thirty this morning while this was a particularly bad day for Sydney trains means delays on uncommon three weeks earlier sudden trackwork closed the entire Illawarra line on a Friday afternoon at peak. Allah similar delays also happened back in late July and may end April. Some of these events are unavoidable. If a train goes down. There's not a whole lot you can do but there is a general buzz among commuters in Sydney that Al Public Transport System continues to fall short whether that's through delays unreliable trains and buses or just a lack of sevices altogether people are wondering wondering what can we do to fix a faulty system today on the Shire. You'll be glad to hear we already have the answer to that question and the answer comes in the form of data. You'll also learn that this data isn't being used to fix the public transport system. This is think to digital futures. I'm Jake Malcolm in two thousand twelve. The New South Wales Public Public Transport System finally caught up to the digital age with the launch of Opel prior to the roll out of our pool. We had the ticketing system. This is Matt Hounsell transport analyst and planning from the University of Technology Sydney under the magnetic netted system. You would buy paper tickets to catch the train or bus but under Opel you carry a universal cod where you hop on and and off transport. We have a single tap. The Opel system is a tap on tap off recording system and that system is very rich in its data loss G. There were four hundred full million tap. What's within the New South Wales Credit Metropolitan Poyton area which runs through the Hunter Newcastle Sydney woman gone out to go everywhere where the apple cart is available because so much data is collected through April the capacity to learn about how people use public transport is greater than ever before and is much more than we could collect through surveys. The government took a survey of the household travel survey which is about three thousand people asking people to either. Keep a diary sorry or sitting them down in saying on this day. What is the transport that you did but surveys can also be unreliable and inaccurate. If you pick acre random Tuesday they will say well. I traveled to work and I traveled home but that means that you don't get a good understanding of what people do on the weekend. You don't get a good understanding of people doing more complicated transport linking. It's very hard to get a sense of what people are doing from from surveys analyzing data transport sociologist Dane Muthu says Ken significantly improve the public transport system. If if we know where people tap on and by people tap off we get a sense of the services going to be more for where we need to put more resources and the crowding and additional infrastructure. We should be using the data more to argue for an increase in budget an increase in services basically bet equality all the time across every aspect of the network but right now. This isn't the case considering how much data we're collecting and through our poll. Do you think enough is going back into the public transport system. I think no we could be doing one major agia raisin when not fully utilizing this information matt says is because it's tightly tucked away. All of the daughter is stored on a database nice that is managed by cubic who make the apricot system and an agency within transport for New South Wales under the customer Experience Appearance Division. They are extremely reticent about allowing anyone else. Anyway need that data. They are very very careful about outdone. Why are they so secretive about it and because under the New South Wales Law they are legally obliged to maintain your privacy missing because apple is a digital system. It does collect personal information about you that Matt argues the need to you better. The public transport system far outweighs any of his concerns about privacy and that plan is such as himself should have greater access to this data. Opel system allows a record to be created of how the entire city used the transport system and is extremely useful to have this information to understand how people actually want to use the transport system that being said not not all herbal data is behind closed doors. I jumped onto. I think it was transport. New South Wales they do have somewhat of a collection of links Zain racehorses that you can look at top top of information to you. How comprehensive is that information. There is taken in bits and bobs and Bush together. They're into into some sort of document yeah so it's nice to be out to have those dashboards which make it available to more of a lay audience but in terms times of being able to access the data you need to go through processes confirmed that she would manage the data and so forth so it's not as open as one might think for transport planners and researches they're often more indepth data so not just how many tampons occur on certain line line but at what time people tap on at what places and how often but accessing this type of data can be an Audrius process the data from cubic then gets to transport for New South Wales who then do some changes on it to maintain aim privacy in terms of AL ability to use that for more responsive planning. We're not quite there is a lot of steps and bureaucracy along the way however claudine believes it's crucial as opal continues to debunk some pretty outdated misconceptions coming from the transport. Secta uh-huh up until recently. I've been told that is still this belief that only two people per hour or something interchange at townhall and we know that it's not true interchange means to swap from one train to another or from one type of transport to the next so prior to April thinking that only two people were into changing per hour at one of Sydney's busiest. Train stations is way off. There's more and more opportunity to look at the data into SUV understand end into change while Erbil dot opens up a lot of opportunities to improve public transport. Matt has another concern and that's in a country like Stralia. Public Transport will always be an afterthought the problems in new New South Wales regarding transport our institutional biases rather than you know lack of data and what do you mean so the original design nine full the changes to the hobby job to the removal of the tolls was to give priority to the buses so that they weren't causing the the the the cows however the design was subsequently changed to give priority to the cars over the buses and the prioritizing cows. I've buses passes throughout. Sydney is the underlying reason that I'll transpose. System isn't as good as it could be. We spend seventy percent of our capital budgets agents. on building roads in New South Wales have done since nineteen eighty six and that's why I'll transport system is lagging behind 'cause of the priority because of the priority that a priority within treasury that the priority within two cabinet and that is why the system is still struggling. Why are caused the priority. What's the argument. Though there is an argument within the Treasury Department's Dot 'cause let's return a higher revenue. It is historical decision which is based on the feelings in the early fifties and sixties is that 'cause with the future and there's a lot of people who still have a strong emotional attachment to the car and that that means that we have got a city which is not as efficient as it could be because we still focus all of Al surface streets on the car there there is a myth that public transport costs more to build than private transport so the West connects might away is coming in about five one hundred million dollars per kilometer the tunneling fold crazy. How is that possible bill. That's it I mean that's pretty good natural response but it's an amazing an astonishing amount considering that it only has six six lanes of traffic which can cater to about twelve thousand four hundred people whereas one lane just one line of rail L. Traffic Caters to thirty six thousand people and the northwestern Metro came in in about two hundred million dollars per kilometer for tunneling. There is a feeling within the departments that the operating cost full public transport is higher because there's a lot more labor involved however Dutt is ignoring the fact that society still has to pay for the operating costs of the private road network at work. It's just that we're all paying in time out of our pocket and at the same time we're also causing vast amounts of climate pollution so we're all losing out from having a transport system. That's inefficient in terms of flipping in this narrative so putting the emphasis on public transport designing the system and our roads for Public Transport Urva 'cause. How much weight do you you think the collection of data that we get from Opel. How do you think that would help him. Changing that narrative okay we know that one of the most popular bus routes in the city is the three full three from the really dense subheads of Zetland and waterloo moving thousands of people per hour it should be really clear to the government and the departments that area needs more priority for the public transport system to do the heavy heavy lifting now the council have asked for a light rail system down there but they can't quite afford it on their own and they need to stay tools horizon but there isn't sufficient political will to invest in a light rail system to do the heavy lifting the ARP systems shows us that that demand is there. It also shows that in places where improve public transport has been rolled out people have used it so the full system you can show US people's responses to transport and sharks with the need actually is it shows us. The most popular bus routes in city it shows is this when people are traveling shows us the people respond to twenty four hour bosses and that they don't respond to services that cut off at like ten pm mm-hmm. We know that there is a lot of things that can be seen in the airport. Dada the demonstrate what people actually want and will show the government that they could do some tactical changes using low cost interventions such is you know the big. Plastic Jersey barriers that they use to separate word works to to create separated bus lanes turning on the public transport piracy at the traffic lights which is just deactivated at the moment if they were to do yeah those kind of things to stop prioritizing public transport they would see not just the buses running faster and cheaper but they would also see the results in the Opel data as to whether people responded so the Opel System allows the government to actually see if people are responding to so that changes that means that there's now an opportunity for the first time we've had in history the ability to within days see whether or not these changes donning dining to make an effect and then we can stop to promote the change to see whether we can bed down these these options but they've gotta have the drive. The wheel will the willingness the courage. You've got to be courageous minister to actually change the system but if there's no political will then not taught doesn't really mean anything if there's no political will nothing will change but the reality of the twenty first century tree is changes required and is coming whether we like it or not. It's going to be something that has to be done. You think digital futures is made possible with the support of two. Seo Radi we are the University of Technology Sydney and is heard around Australia by the Community Radio Network think digital futures is made in Sydney which sits on land of the ordination whose sovereignty was never ceded. You can subscribe to think digital futures wherever you get your podcasts I'm jake welcome. Thanks Company.
Enova Community Energy expands to cover all of NSW
"The science show on Aren. An Ellison Crock is a former Australian businesswoman of the year. She's now chair of Inova community energy and lives in northern New South Wales. To use ago I talked about how in the northern rivers of New South Wales the community had come together to establish social enterprise. You know the community energy to allow us to take control of our own energy and in doing so allow us to take direct action on on climate change. The story of how and why Australia's first community owned energy retailer came into being remains as relevant as ever the need to meet the combined challenges of delivering affordable energy for all together with increased energy security future reliability and most importantly lowering carbon emissions has become increasingly important as we dragged through each day of the long hot and windy summer. And you know there's approach as part of an effective solution to those challenges is even more vital the spring an entry into summer of two thousand nineteen twenty that we have witnessed across Australia. We'll now have convinced. All except the most devout denial lists that it is time to accept the scientific evidence on Climate Change and in consequence to admit that lowering carbon emissions is critical. It is not surprising that regional communities have been steadily pushing for renewable energy generation. We can see that. In our increasingly arid country we can't afford to waste water or risk contaminating the water supplies needed for agriculture and for protecting biodiversity on industries that have no no long term future such as coal and coal seam gas mining and large numbers of us are very aware that if we want good job prospects for our children then Australia should the investing as rapidly as possible in all the technologies and industries required to transition to renewable energy and to reverse the damage being done to the natural environment ornament since we also know that our fossil fuel based stationary energy. Consumption is responsible for over thirty three percent of carbon emissions. We understand that the a faster we successfully plan for and transition to renewable energies. The better off we will all be. We hope that the past months means that increasing number of city dwellers will now share our sense of urgency. So what exactly do we want to do to make this happen. The INOVA vision is is to enable self sustaining communities instead of the existing highly centralized energy system in which large fossil fuel power plants generate eight energy. which has sent long distances over transmission lines then distributed into households and businesses with money flowing out the other way we envisage a system known in the energy industry as DEA distributed energy resources in which households and businesses can share in the generation storage and economic benefits of renewable power? L. Vision is not simply wanted increasing numbers of households and businesses with solar and batteries plus clever deliver software potentially enabling them to use this or have this stored energy drawn on automatically to support the greed in times of need. This is what is is commonly thought of as distributed sources but it is only part of what we see as possible. We see it as possible and desirable to ensure that everyone can share in the shift to renewables and share in the benefits and that we use the shift to keep more money in communities and strengthen them so what we want to enable our communities. That genuinely self sustaining in which streets can share batteries in which apartment blocks and retirement villages can operate as embedded embedded networks in which those who can't have solar on their own rooftops for whatever reason can participate in solar gardens and low income households can also sharing the benefits of such gardens communities in which industrial states or small villages operators micro grids of locally generated renewable energy with their own storage storage still linked to the greed and able to support it but preferably able to stand alone in extreme weather events in which it is cost effective for communities and local governments. It's to work together to end small to mid size when your generation plants to meet the needs of that of nearby industries. If INOVA is the retailer the fifty percent of prophets coming from community will be returned to those communities based on postcards to contribute to self sustaining projects as we see it by taking care of their own energy communities can keep money circulating in local economies to benefit people jobs and businesses the Australian energy market operator in its draft integrated system plan. Twenty twenty has spelled out that across all scenarios the the National Energy Market will evolve from centralized coal fired generation system to a highly diverse portfolio dominated by distributed energy resources and variable renewable energy supported by enough disposable resources to ensure the power system can reliably meet demand at all times as a small scale distributed energy. Resources is expected to double and in some scenarios triple by twenty forty holding green demand relatively typically constant residential industrial and commercial consumers are expected to continue to invest heavily in rooftop TV with increasing interest in battery restorage and load management the modeling projects that D- could provide thirteen to twenty percent of total underlying annual National Energy Makati consumption by twenty forty. As we see it there is room for an even greater contribution from dea provided we can achieve the right regulatory lightweight framework which requires a willingness from government and regulators to recognize that they were real benefits inherent in enabling small players including community late organizations. And make no mistake. The transition to renewables with storage represents a real opportunity to communities to take control with their energy future and the finance associated with that. Needless to say this view is not one being encouraged by large-scale operators whose future ability to maintaining signings listing profit margins depends on continuing centralized control and operation of plants where the fossil fuel or renewable by the smallest number of operators possible and these players regularly make their case to government for additional tax payer funded transmission networks to support this centralized approach will. How has the little battler with being vision? Gone in the past three years. INOVA has managed to build its customer base to more than seven thousand six hundred with ten eighteen thousand projected by June. We have continued to challenge the market with one of the highest. Feeding tariffs paid for solar exposure to the greed. We expanded banded in late October. Two Thousand Nineteen from serving customers in Country New South Wales through the essential energy distribution network to serving the whole of New South Wales including Newcastle Sydney and Woollen goal via the greed and indefinite works. And we're seeing a good response. As people are announcing the links between Bush buys climate change and their own energy choices L. I pilot micro grid is underway in the Byron APPS and Industry The estate in partnership with Essential Energy Research Team From University of New South Wales and what watches we currently in planning for Office Industrial Scale Gail Battery Project to enable testing both the value of batteries in smoothing demand peaks and of software that will enable energy trading between households while we are not yet in Prophet. We are on trained to deliver a profitable year in twenty twenty one. Meanwhile working through a not for profit and in partnership with North Coast Community Housing we have enabled Solo peavy on social housing government grants and we have just completed Alpha's social excess Sola Garden to provide credits from from renewables. Two more of these social housing tenants and community organizations using funds donated by customers to our renewable development initiative found and in partnership with other community organizations particularly community and Renewable Energy Mellanby. We have helped install solar panels on a number community organizations rooftops in two thousand nineteen in other supported liberation ladder which provides meals to the homeless and those in need in the area. The the black dog institute mental health programs for regional areas and the red crosses Bush. Five twenty twenty will also see funding tree planting activities for the growth Of Forests. Next time I'll explain. Just how our solar gardens work and how they can be of benefit to anyone who was renting and two others who can't have solar on their own rooftop for whatever reason I will also talk about some of the existing opportunities and some of the barriers which must be overcome as we transition to a more secure and self sustaining future and that next time on the Sancho will be in about a month from now ellison crooked chair of Inova of a community energy and former business woman of the year.
What happens if we don't get a vaccine? This is what 'COVID normal' looks like
"This is an ABC podcast. Hello welcome to Coronas the daily podcast all about the coronavirus. I'm health report to take in Thailand an emphasis journalist. Dr. Norman Swan is choosy the twentieth of October. Now no minute pretty much every press conference and in lots of news coverage, keep hearing this term covert normal as if as if we all know what that even means, but it's not normal right? It's not abnormal that we used to know how meant to understand what's meant by the term covid normal covered normal at the moment depends on where you live in Australia. So covered normal in Victoria as we speak is really quite a severe lockdown even with restrictions lifted covered normal in New South Wales is You know it's not quite normal life but the you know indoor activities restricted there's no compulsory mask-wearing, but there are outbreaks. State is on a bit of age. Covered normal everywhere else in Australia is getting back to almost normal life which actually puts them at risk of covid nineteen should be. Deposited into their state for some reason. Well, that's not really normal. Though is it because normal life included overseas travel and that's something that seems to be off the table indefinitely and we've had a question for one about audience members about this. What is the endgame? For Ustralia not just the states? What does the next year look like if we don't get vaccine or the vaccine that does come isn't isn't effective enough at first well, in states like new. South. Wales and Victoria covered normal if you like the end game. Assuming that the virus continues to circulate is that we don't circuit quite as much. So it's not locked on. It's just that we don't get into circumstances where a lot of people are mixing indoors, consp-, read the virus. So we're GONNA fewer contacts on a daily basis to reduce the chances of picking up the virus or spreading the virus. Covered normal, but it's not a lockdown. It's just that you to be careful. Now the question you raise a good one, but let's talk about internal borders. So what happens if you lift the border restrictions across? Australia, when the still virus in New South Wales Victoria, well, there's not much virus. So the risk of spread to those states is low but shoot actually it sprayed. Does that mean that automatically West trillions and south Australians queenslanders means etc.. Territories that they have to change their behavior and they've got to restrict how they do things by going indoors and live in a different way. and Professor James McCall, University of Melbourne argues that they don't that in fact, they're covered normal in states with Novartis circulating with Borders Darn is actually the way people are living at the moment, but there's gotta be a heightened alert to the possibility that the virus could come in. So people have got to be aware of symptoms get tested and that the public health systems go onto it in terms of getting on top of testing and contact tracing and that the if you like the protection so that you can reach retain the behavior in those states that you've got at the moment. So news wasn't Toria a degree of social distancing but not. Too drastic but in other states, you can continue the way you're going as long as you're prepared to come forward for testing in large numbers and the systems prepared to pick that up and the an example James quoted was the spread from Melbourne to kill more. So Regional Victoria said, very little corona virus people are getting back to normal much faster. But in fact, the State got on top of the coolmore outbreak and indeed the shepherd and outbreak very very quickly and go to under control without rural and regional victorians having to change their behavior they are covered normal if you like. So this is good news moving forward is that you could. Lower the borders have much freer flow of people and that the compromise for people in the states with Navarro spread at the moment is just ready to come forward for tasting and the systems got ready to respond, which is a small price to pay for tourism and families getting back together again, and that's at this level and at the individual level I'm assuming that things like the one. Point five meters, physical distancing and hand hygiene that those sorts of behaviors that we've been encouraged to have since the very beginning should just become part of everyday life. Yes. Although they become less important in states where practically speaking you've got very little virus or no virus circulating, and so the argument is that you could probably maintain some semblance of what you've been used to in those states. As long as you're prepared to be alert to the possibility of Covid nineteen being in your state, and as New Zealand has found, you can get cases popping up without you realizing it and you've got to be able to respond as did the new, Zealanders did. It also raises the question of Christmas. What's covered normal Christmas. And that's going to depend on how much virus there is still some virus around. A covid normal Christmas is going to be a restricted Christmas if there's no virus around in zero spread, it could be a much more normal. Christmas. Covered normal. Who just got to get used to it may well be smaller family gatherings or you large ones if you're going to have them outside, that's kind of depressing prospect but it does feel like they could be some long term benefits from the. Presence to buy things. Easier on Santa Claus, you covered normal for Santa Claus probably visit happy washes his hands between between visits. I was going to say what what, about these things, these public health behaviors that we've been encouraged to do from the beginning we know that that's reduced the amount of common colds and flu that we've seen is that is that trend likely to continue possibly see as well? Well, you'd hope so because that's going to be a good thing for the general. Health, of the community. So let's quickly talk about what we saw in Victoria yesterday with continuing to save really large numbers of new cases a day coming through there, which is really heartening and most of the cases yesterday were from a single family. But there was this one we'd case of someone who's tested positive but they actually tested positive beck in July. Do we know whether this person has caught covid again or whether it's just persisted in their system throughout these? Past. Few months I think according to the chief health officer they think this is a prolonged infection and not a reinfection but the are having a look at it. We've spoken about this before and Corona casts in the past that when they followed people with coronavirus infections, people actually have positive corona virus tests for quite long periods of time six, eight weeks. This one is longer than six or eight weeks, but you can keep the virus in your system for A. Long period of time and nobody's quite sure why I think they think that might be an example of that. But to see I, mean reinfection is a possibility but it's not that common almost certainly and this person would they have been infectious throughout those last few months probably not but that's still not really understood. So like I said, before the other three cases that came out yesterday or from the same household and we had the authorities in Victoria saying that the. Behind the cases coming through as important thing to focus on now. Yes, it is but they're still metrics like how fast are people coming forward for testing so waiting three days getting done same day have fast other results getting back and how fast the contact tracers looking off each case. So they know where they came from and also how many cases are of unknown source and hopefully that you sort that out within twenty four hours, so you can get on with things. Now, that's where Victoria's getting really good and you wouldn't want to lose those metrics which are the maths if you like behind the stories. So we're talking about car that normal before and Christmas. Before Christmas comes Halloween, lots of Australians, celebrate Halloween, and maybe it's worth US giving out what into been update about what you are an aunt allowed to do for. Halloween. This year depending on where you live in Australia moment I think in Victoria not trick or treating in. Victoria. That might change next weekend. But at the moment, there's no trick or treating. New. South. Wales has got quite extensive advice for a covered safe. Halloween which is the usual stuff. Keep a one and a half meters apart stay at home if you've got any symptoms, we feel unwell. We're facemask unable to physically distance. Don't answer the door if you're self isolating. You should make it a front yard events, not the front door of your house. So this much outdoors as possible. Only handle individually wrapped treats don't use community volleyball's offer hand sanitizer front gate. You might put up a sign saying where at home but you to one nineteen we're distancing please take one which has been really one of these sweet happy. Halloween and allowed more than twenty people in your property at one time we'll. That would be my rule for Halloween anytime of the year. And you just basically for participants who wanted to trick or treat you if you're getting symptoms, don't do it. So the kids on well don't do it. Stay away from crowds. Treat streets probably not a good idea go to people's door and so on. So forth, San Small groups stay outdoors be sensible. Don't share traits from different households and don't swap costumes or face masks halfway through the trick or treating absolutely I really curious to know what a corona cost is planning to. Halloween. If that's something you celebrate if you've got ideas and. Had have a covid safe halloween us a comment at ABC dot net slash Corona Kost and click on ask us you questions and leave us a comment there. I. Think Masks provide huge opportunity for Halloween where you just have a horrible monster painted onto the mask which turns your face into something truly ghoulish indeed although I would point out that a costume mask doesn't. Doesn't negate the need for a proper three light mosque. No but you could do something imaginative with a three layered mask. I can't wait to see your three laid mask. Norman it's my face. Well, it's always time for Karenni costs. Today we love to your questions go to ABC dot net. Slash podcast go to ask you questions and mentioned chronic in your question. So we can pick it up and we'll see tomorrow then.
Myall Creek massacre - June 10, 1838
"Creed an obsession lie at the heart of the feather thief, a page turning account of a museum, heist, that reads like a classic crime thriller, the feather thief dramatically recounts, theft of rare bird, feathers coveted on the black market. The man determined to possess them at any cost and the surprising history of commodity once worth more than gold declared absorbing by NPR and fascinating by the New York Times the feather thief is now in paperback wherever books are sold this day in history. Class is a production of heart radio. Hi everyone. Welcome to this day in history class where we uncovered the remnants of history every day. Today is June tenth twenty nineteen. The day was June tenth eighteen thirty eight the will Ray of ROY people tribal clan of the Camilla, ROY nation. We're getting ready to have their evening meal at mile creek station, just before sunset a group of twelve Europeans, including convicts. Former convicts and one colonist showed up at the station, armed and massacred at least twenty eight original people, the killings at mile creek was one of many incidences of colonial violence against original people by British colonists, but the trials that followed the massacre, marks the first time British subjects for executed for massacring aboriginal people in New South Wales at the time of the mile creek massacre, British law stated that killing original people was a crime. But as Abba, original people in colonists clashed over Europeans increasing presence and use of land and resources violence became common aboriginal people. Fought against the incursion of colonists and the state sanctioned attacks against original people on January twenty six eighteen thirty eight for example, Major James, none, the commander of the New South Wales mounted police along with some soldiers in stockmen massacred more than fifty aboriginal people at Waterloo creek the array of ROY people suffered many losses as a result of the conflict between aboriginal people in Europeans fleeing frontier violence. They decided to camp on Henry dang Garth property at mile creek station, which was near present day. Bingo, the warrior, ROY assisted Stockman in exchange were protected from violence, but on June tenth eighteen thirty eight normal operations at the station were interrupted when the group of convicts ex convicts in the colonists led by John Fleming showed up with weapons Stockman George Anderson, and Charles kill Meister, as well as to original men were attending the station. About thirty original people fled to the stockman's huts, while two boys escaped by jumping into a creek, the attackers tied up the array of white people and took them from their campsite though. Several women and girls were separated from the group and taken elsewhere, kill Meister joined the attackers while Anderson attempted to help original girl, at woman. The warrior, why people were taken to a stockyard and killed, and their bodies were dismembered and burned people who committed massacres of aboriginal, people were rarely punished in fact, many columnists thought that Europeans should not be punished for killing aboriginal people. But the proceedings debt would follow the mile creek massacre, set a judicial precedent station manager William Hobbs police superintendent, Thomas foster and colonists Frederick foot reported the massacre and governor George Gipps sent police magistrate at work. Dinnie. Day to investigate the crime after taking depositions from nineteen witnesses day, arrested eleven of the twelve people who had committed the massacre, the free colonist John Fleming managed to get away. The convicts ex convicts who had perpetrated. The murders were sent to Sydney for trial. The first trial began on November fifteenth. Eighteen thirty eight at the New South Wales supreme court it was presided over by chief Justice, sir. James dowling. And there were twelve colonists on the jury the aboriginal man named Johnson who witnessed the killings could not testify in court because he was not Christian, so he could not swear to his evidence. In the end, the jury found the eleven defendants, not guilty of committing murder at mile creek. But Attorney General John Plunkett was not satisfied with that verdict. So they went to a second trial Plunkett, split up the defendants hoping, they would tell them each other seven of the defendants were tried by judge William Burton. They were found guilty and they were hanged in December at the George Street jail. The remaining for defendants were set to go to trial as well. This time was being taken as an eyewitness as he had been introduced to Christianity. But you're paying ten was never seen again. And the rest of the murders walked free after the trial's, colonists expressed more anger at the executions of the Europeans, then the killings of the aboriginal people, and they continued to massacre, aboriginal people though, the people who committed the murders did not publicize them as proudly and took measures to cover them up. Even though there was a reward for Fleming's capture. He was able to integrate into society, and never faced trial, one of the people who committed the massacre and got a free died by suicide and William Hobbs who reported the crime lost his job with Dan guard. Today, there's a memorial site in service at mile creek. I'm Eve's Jeffco in hopefully, you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. But if you still don't know enough, you can listen to another show. I host called unpopular. I'm popular is a podcast about people in history who challenge the status quo, and we're sometimes persecuted for it. You can listen anywhere you get this day in history class. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at T D, I h c podcast thanks again for listening and we'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from iheartradio vis the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, would you do to stay alive. Would you Wade through snake infested water? Would you drink your own urine? Would you cut off your arm? When the stakes are life and death. You might be surprised at the lengths you go to, to save yourself every Monday. The park has networks podcasts revival, demonstrates, the human spirits ability to triumph over deadly at versity, and it looks at the lasting psychological effects of living through a traumatic event survival tells high intensity stories of people who are in life or death situations. And it explores the strategies that they used to survive. You'll hear stories of survival about a pilot and passenger crash landing in the Canadian Yukon in the dead of winter. You'll hear a story about a man escaping from a North Korean interment camp. NGO here about people trapped on thinking ships and a lot more stories of survival. How far would you go to stay alive, search for and subscribe to survival wherever you listen to podcasts shows, and don't forget to rate and review and tell them this day in history class since you.