20 Episode results for "New Mexico"

Spies in New Mexico

True Consequences

53:15 min | 9 months ago

Spies in New Mexico

"Hi I'm Jenny. The host of its motor north curious about measures north of England. This podcast is definitely affect various parts of England. I went to college in the shadow. Subtle with me when my Mahindra and Dean Brady Barry Does five innocent children? I've worked in the city of Leeds Aware Sherpur targeted his victims in the nineteen seventies knowing how geographically close hyping. Today's crimes many curious and that curiosity became this podcast. However my men who is to help you see the person not victim. This is true consequences be true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest If you enjoy listening to this show please. Rate Subscribe and review on your favorite pod. Catcher chew consequences bully listener supported to support this show. Good a patriot dot com slash true consequences to keep up with all my updates. You can follow me on facebook and Instagram at true consequences. Pod and on twitter at true cons pod. I want to give a special shout out today to actually for your donation as well as heather see. Who's become my latest patriots? Subscriber your support ensures that can continue to provide content for you. Thank you so much. It means the world to me. I've never been that interested in what I would consider history when I think of history. I think of a long boring books about the past. Now I know some people love it and I'm not mad about that. I just never really felt like it was accessible to me in a way that made sense until my sophomore year of high school. I had this amazing history teacher. He actually made it interesting and fun. You maybe want to learn about all these crazy things that happened. He tweeted everything like a story and he was a master storyteller with him. History was very far off and it wasn't an accessible. I guess this is the value of a great teacher. Speaking of if you haven't think teacher for what they do you should really hard. And they're not appreciated enough. Oh and while you're at it go ahead and think all the first responders and healthcare workers okay back to this. When you suggested that we cover spies in New Mexico. I was intrigued. I started my own research into this. Case is Lydia worked on hers. We dug deep and learned about a piece of new Mexican history. That is fascinating and bizarre. All you history buffs may scoff this but my understanding of Soviet espionage in New Mexico was virtually nonexistent. I'm grateful to Lidia for recommending. This is an episode because I learned a lot and maybe I might be willing to admit to myself that I like history after all. Maybe today's deal with plot to steal nuclear secrets from the US by the Soviet Union. And because this show is what it is it will address these issues as they pertain to the beautiful state of New Mexico. I am Eric Carter blondine and this is true. Consequences here Lydia. Hey Eric Welcome back thank you. I'm glad to have you. I know that you've been excited about this particular story and I honestly I wasn't excited about in the beginning when you brought it up because I didn't understand But as I started to do my own research not that it's as extensive as your research but I did my own. I started to become more interested in this case and also I learned some things which kind of pissed off at you about because I hate learning things sir. Yeah you're such an American but history has never really been something that I've been into. I guess maybe you're more into history than you realize. I guess I guess my show would be proof that I am history but for some reason I cold war. I hear all this stuff and I'm just like a boring. Don't care but honestly I did learn some things I do feel like maybe I might be more in the history than I thought you said so. So I know you wanNA talk about spies in New Mexico. Yup spies secrets and lies. And we're talking about a particular set of spies not not like. We did with the colts where we had two different things. We're GONNA talk about one particular thing right right during one particular part of US history and New Mexico New Mexico history So let me ask. Okay what do these three things have in common? Trumka Whitesands Bumblebee. I'll tell you transformers. The answer is the hint being our segment spy. I'm excited to see how that all connects a thread through the story and weaving thread in some magical blanket. Is it a Cova blanket? No it's not a covert blanket. Thank God yes. We don't want that. That's better Noda Cove Ed say No. Just say no social distance everybody. Let's break down those connections. Okay of those words. Random RANDOM WORDS RANDOM words right trump white sands and bumblebee. So the overarching connection is spies. New Mexico is home to a bunch of government agencies. Like what are we have? We have the Department of Energy. Here we have a bunch of Research Laboratories. We've got some homeland defense stuff going on here. Yeah with the Research Laboratories Missile testing in parts of the State. Even close to where we grew up right so on the other side so we grew up in Sapporo which is a small teeny tiny teeny tiny little town which translates to help. Help me get me out of here. Your explanation point But behind the famous M mountain in Socorro. They do lots of missile testing. And I don't know if you had this experience growing up there but when I grew up there my house would frequently shake from the sonic booms. Yeah some of the missiles and some of the jets flying overhead and it would get really loud. Oh totally yeah. Yeah in the same people that work on those explosions by a mountain also handle our July Fourth Fireworks. This is really pretty legit display. Yeah I coro yeah I think it's a pretty legit display. Looks like actual bombmakers making fireworks. We went down there last July. Because it's around the same time as my eldest daughter's birthday so we tell her like this is all for you know minus happy birds. But I haven't been there in such a long time and I still see like a total legit firework display. No it is. And where else can you get hurricane? Junior not from New Mexico Google Google L. Hurricane Senior and then Google Al Hurricane Junior and then also fireworks. Yes I'm hot dogs and hamburgers and all that other and actually really nice grassy knoll to avoid the fireworks. The golf courses very lovely on. Yeah it's really pretty anyway. Nobody cares about that. Yes you want people to check it out. Because it's a hidden gem of New Mexico. Get so flustered. I'm so passionate about the fireworks and the Green Chili Cheese fries at El Camino. Oh my God you guys. If you ever go to Sikora you'll have to go to El Camino the best new Mexican food ever and if it's later in the evening asks to be set in the El Matador lounge a lounge. You can have a beer. You can have a beer. Natural Cheese fries. And the booths are like super old from the seventies and the sixties and it really lost in time. It's totally. It's like a total pausing time. It's really the only thing the only complaint I have about the ALCHEMY. No we're really going down a weird round hole. Here is the fact that they put fucking olives on everything love but I love a okay okay. We're not Italian and we're not Greek. So holidays are okay in my book like this is like a Spanish right. Oh Yeah I never thought about that action to whole new then test. Just get out of my car bit and go forward magic lamb for you miss up. Those aren't the words so we're not doing karaoke audience. Let's get back on track. You're distracting US stopping so selfish and let us focus on what we need to tell you about. Spies in New Mexico Gut. It's all about you dare you okay so new. Mexico is home to lots of government agencies. Eric I think you've actually looked up. How many people are actually employed by the state or the government yes sixteen percent of new Mexicans are employed by the public sector? It's a huge amount of people. It is considering how few people who live here. It's like three hundred thousand people so that's your lot so there's a reason why so. Many people I think are clustered around New Mexico or agencies. I should say that kind of goes back to World War Two so even before the. Us got involved in the world. War a gentleman. By the name of Oppenheimer was tasked at developing nuclear weapons and he had been familiar with New Mexico which will talk about a little bit in. He was tasked with developing an atomic weapon. That would hopefully end the war so when we say atomic weapons that's kind of a broad term basically. We're talking about an a-bomb so the a-bomb was used to drop on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Generation. One right nuclear weapons right. Yeah I'm saying right and yeah like I totally know about nuclear weapons. Science man's played it to me actually entails but just space on the seat that we're sharing what it's called is so the people will kind of responsible of navigating where America was going to go with World War Two. They had a choice whether to look at Atlanta invasion of allied countries so allied countries being like Japan or look at a firebombing campaign so basically flying over and dropping arsenal so obviously they decided to lean towards typically firebombing. So essentially what happened is they dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in nineteen forty five and that essentially devastated sixty seven Japanese cities resulting in approximately two hundred and twenty five thousand deaths. Devastating completely devastating. I mean whether you're not you're like Oh yeah America. If would've I still think that's such a huge death toll like so. Many civilians were literally burned alive when they dropped the weapon and then whoever was left probably suffered a horrible long battle cancer yet. The bombs were respectively named fat man. And Little Boy. That sounds innocuous. Yeah I don't know why they came up with those names. I'm sure there's A. There's a reason why those names were selected. They probably meant something so going. Back to how these weapons came to be. We have to go back to what was known as the Manhattan Project and the Manhattan project was primarily housed and developed and nurtured in Los Alamos New Mexico so for those of my listeners that are not from New Mexico. Let me just take a couple of minutes and talk about Los Alamos? So Alamos is Right now a small city I think maybe a few thousand people live. There is right between Espanola and Santa Fe New Mexico and so it's in the north. I was in north central part of the state Very beautiful area Los Alamos itself actually sits on top of a missa which is a flat hill type structure and you can just see this beautiful canyon to the West and then if you go east there's a beautiful nature preserve called device Kavita which is an old Volcano that is inactive gorgeous area. Lots of wildlife beautiful vegetation. Have you ever been there? I believe I have driven through there. I don't believe I've ever stopped. It's like but I do remember it being like very forested and beautiful it is. Yeah so Los. Alamos itself is also very pretty giant pine trees but that's the setting of where the development of the atomic bomb happened. And I think if I'M NOT WRONG. Correct me if I'm wrong that back then in the forties it was top secret bowel. Yeah totally so. You weren't even really hard to get to and that's why you know is probably selected right because it is remote and it is on top of the hill so they could easily block off that entire area from you know access from people right and. I think they did that and pretty sure there is one way in one way out. You know. They're still. There was a gated area. Where people at check in as they came in and check out as they left and even now it's still heavily involved in the development of top secret technology and yet top secret things related to military how we have that. And we also have Sandia national labs here in Albuquerque which is very similar to that but I just wanted to give kind of a rundown Los Alamos is because not many people. Maybe don't know about it. Yeah it's a small town. It's a very small town. So as IRC point now it's still relevant in today's government agencies and government research is the highest income per capita in New Mexico. That that town. Yeah there's a bunch of scientists who making bank. They're not us not no he tried and they said no to go away. Who are you do? You have a degree in and we said laughter. You're not my mom never will be all right. We'll get back to the story back to this story of the bomb cheesy nineteen nineties version dropping own so prior to obviously the final execution of this weapon there had to be testing phase and that testing also occurred here. New Mexico and that was done at the White Sands and what are these things have in common white sands missile range? It's also now known as a White Sands National Park and the site is marked now formerly as the Trinity Test Site. Okay so first of all if you're not from new. Mexico whitesands is amazing gorgeous beautiful. So it's all of these really bright white sand dunes in the middle of like these giant mountains and there's yuccas growing everywhere and cactuses and it's just so pretty there. It's really weird to think about the fact that was like the sight of some nuclear testing. And also it's not very far from where we grew up. No that's true and I'm pretty sure boys to mention a video there so doesn't go down a Midi Boswell. Somebody shot a very well known music video wiped. And it's absolutely gorgeous. I believe it's gypsum. Rock that gypsum. Yeah that's kind of a very fine sand in. It's actually illegal to take the sad. You need to get permission to transport any of Sun and Eric set just stark blue skies and a couple yuccas spattered here. And they're absolutely gorgeous so if anybody's looking for a road trip to New Mexico checkout whitesands. It's worth it. Yeah it's totally worth it especially at night with the moon you can. Even you get permission to camp there. Caution don't go in July waste yes. Family actually will die from Germany. You will die. Yeah you'll die. Don't go hiking there. I mean. Just imagine what it's like when you're like in the snow in the Sun is beating down like br blinding your face. It's the same thing but it's also hot. Yeah so. Prior to the dropping of the bombs they went through testing phase they selected whitesands detest it. It's now known as the Trinity Site and White Fans actually just gained it's National Park status. I believe that just happened like a couple years. Yeah so what they did. Was they built replica? Towns and family homes didn't have like dolls and mannequins. Yeah that was actually a couple. Years back maybe. Like ten. Years ago. Actually dressed as a mannequin mannequin from the site. So like I was wearing like nineteen fifties like you know cute housewife outfit and there was carrying a tray of burnt cookies and they had like melted. Skin all over me yeah. That was my costume. You're really morbid. I thought it was clever. This club yes. This is a matter of like a vision. In my head of this mannequin man with a fedora a sue and like the the house making wife wearing an apron and like poofy scourge basically what I was wearing and carrying Rondo. Trey BURKE COOKIES. I even got real cookies burnt them. Yeah Prince Club pictures of that. I don't actually. I'm so annoyed. I went to a party and everything but nobody took a picture of news so road. Do you know me the famous my own mind. I'm a guest on a podcast a couple times animals. I'm basically co host Mark Wahlberg. Yeah I know him no relation Berg so The rap replica towns and family homes they were completely obliterated obviously during the test bombings and upon reflecting when he was observing those tasks he years later he reflected on what he was feeling what he observed other scientists and their behavior after dropping this bomb at white sands. And if you get a chance to find the the youtube videos of Oppenheimer in this reflection it's really it's really intense. Like he kind of looks like is GonNa Cry. He looks really really skinny and kind of just like a sad person. Maybe that's just my interpretation of it but he just looked like a downtrodden much older gentleman who maybe like juggling. These roles that he played that interacted are history. Seems like a heavy burden to carry. Yeah no kidding so they. I tested the weapon on July sixteenth. Nineteen forty five and Oppenheimer later share that some scientists were laughing. Some were crying laughing. Yeah laughing I don't know. He doesn't further expand whether or not it's like this historic hysterical giddy laughter or is it like an uncomfortable after the ocean. We did this. What are we GONNA do? I didn't know that the the what are they called the candy. The minton the coke was gonNA explode until I just thought it would. We should try it at node actually. And if you watch the footage of what that looked like it was I mean if you can imagine being somebody in the fifties though had been insane sight to see that go off. Yeah like a science kind of technically assigned explosion in the League is later on. I think they did later on like actually test on like live. Animals like cows and sheep and stuff like that and the skin's being stripped off so understandably leave their reactions. Were mixed so like you said Oppenheimer said some people were crying. Some people were laughing. Some people were totally silent for him. This is how he identified how he felt. He said I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture the Baga Vodka Gita Vishnu is trying to persuade the prince that he should do his duty which is to be in war. Okay 'cause he was like I just want to clarify the heart of it because he doesn't talk about it in this quote but the prince did not WANNA fight. He didn't want to kill anybody. And Vishnu is trying to convince him that. It is his duty to do that. Go ahead sorry no good. Thank you so vicious. Trying to persuade the prince that he should do his duty and to impress him. He takes out his multi armed form and says now I am become death the destroyer of worlds. So I think Oppenheimer genuinely recognized that what he had participated the creation that he had participated in was going to have such a huge impact on the the world's future and that largely that impact was going to mean death. Lots of Beth. Yeah I mean to almost two hundred twenty five thousand dead in Japan alone. It's just I can't imagine what he must have felt. I think it's similar to what the creator of dynamite fell. You know like you create this thing. And it's so destructive right you know. I definitely believe that oppenheimer was torn about about this. Chretien the atomic weapon. I think he recognized that. There was a potential obliteration. Being weighed against the ongoing atrocities being waged by the German and Japanese regimes. So here he is a Jewish man recognizing that other Jews were being slaughtered. In Germany that Japan was an ally of Germany. Japan had waged war on us with Pearl Harbor and he was hoping to create a weapon that was potentially going to deny late. All those potential enemies definitely sent a message right. There was no doubt in the world's mind at that point that we were not fucking around right but I guess my question for you. I may be jumping the gun here on on what you WanNa talk about. But why did New Mexico get involved in all of this jury? Cover that no not yet. But thank you for bringing. That is a good segue so rewinding back to the creation of these weapons. We wanted tether back to New Mexico and there was a reason why New Mexico selected to develop the Manhattan project and that was again back to Oppenheimer Oppenheimer who was originally from New York but he became familiar with New Mexico because he traveled here in his early teens. early twenties to be treated for illness in he'd completely fell in love with the mountains. He fell in the desert landscape. What you guys. I just really WANNA fuck this shit. I don't know that he said that But I definitely know the heat like that. It was a very isolated territory like it was theraworx for still. Aren't that many people around here. Same thing that makes it. Great for colts also makes a great for atomic bomb so in nineteen forty one even before the US entered the war President Roosevelt pushed for the US to develop an atomic weapon. So Lieutenant Leslie Groves happened to be a colleague of Oppenheimer and so they were both tasked with finding a location to work on this project and Oppenheimer immediately said. Let's go check out New Mexico so they ended up checking out Los Alamos specifically an area called the Los Alamos ranch school so there was already some pre existing buildings that they could build off of pre existing infrastructure. Like water and stuff like that so it was. It had all everything that they were looking for and he was also incredibly isolated difficult to find difficult to get to which would help support the secretive nature of their work so they really thought this is the place where we can work on this war ending weapon at the same time though. Stolen was completely aware stall in being the leader of Russia at the time was completely aware that the US was going to work on developing an atomic weapon and he already had designated multiple sympathizers with Russia or active buys within Russia to get information from the US efforts to develop the atomic weapon. So just as soon as you started its efforts identifying Los Alamos doing all these things. Russia was right behind us. And saying we're going to get the goods and we're going to be able to beat them to this. Nuclear weapons is like the precursor to the Cold War. Right exactly okay. So we're no I know a couple of things right and and if you think about the. Us is in this weird. By the time we enter the war. We're in a weird relationship with Russia where we're technically working together. They are working to push back the Nazi forces and we have landed in Europe to also push back the Nazi for because there are also developing this whole Communist. Right there were. There were already identified as a communist regime which whatever listeners feel has its own sentiments and we don't want to get down that rabbit hole about causing communism gay but that's exactly what a call no answer so. Los Alamos saw the arrival of a low level engineer named David Greenglass and he came around the same time that vary trusted. Kgb spy and a very renowned scientists name Klaus. Fuchs was also ripened Los Alamos. What a few Fuchs Spelled F. U. C. H. S. Did you ever middle school like right or like high school? Faq like fuck you now. I never did that are used to do. I was too busy doing that. Ask Gang Symbol. So maybe he was the one that wanted to few shit up CA. I think they all wanted a few. But Fuchs was definitely more high level he was an actual physicist whereas greenglass was a little bit low level. I wouldn't say unsophisticated machinist and he was very skilled at that. He was really good at making things. Yeah and but he wasn't necessarily know scientists right. He wasn't like this. You know brain power behind the razor writing the equations for fusion making the components for the devices so few China arrived in Los Alamos but also at the same time when we say like the KGB. I'm using that as like a colloquial term. It wasn't technically the KGB at the time the KGB came later on in the fifties technically at the time it was the key that was Kinda like their speed network. I mean I think KGB is used. Colloquial amount to other gives an all expansive term for? Yeah actually Putin used to be a member of the KGB. And that's why they say he's so good at like manipulating world leaders into doing he has all these skills that he learned from the KGB. Come the first person to throw you under the bus every time everytime I'll take you down with me so technically it was the cave but you know going back but hold on hold on I wanna I just WanNa take a minute. Yes One Minute. I feel like my listeners. Really need to understand that that you have a crush on Vladimir Putin. I no longer have a crush. Because he's an awful person he is just a really bad guy. Could use to have a crash there. I just found him attractive. It's something about like that small man big ego thing. I don't know I mean you would assume I have a crush on Tom Cruise but I don't. It's something about like being a I mean I don't know I can't explain it. There's no way to explain or justify my attraction to Vladimir Putin granted. This was before his horrific facelift. Yes so to my credit. This was before you completely butchered his face but but also was still buttering people civil sales. Yes okay is a better face back to the story. I mean He. He Rides on bears. He hunts shirt lives. You're going to get so much flack from your listeners. Who were like? Putin's awful know he's off. I know he's like seven hundred letters of people like Oh my God I feel the same way. It finally saved us in safe places love and again. It's not I don't love him as a person I just. There's something attractive about him. I felt that at the time no longer do that by now. I'm all about Captain America. Chris Evans my new stick right now. Okay okay now. Being see now you've got to be distracted about my pinterest. Became my mentor. Looking at images of Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson. Why don't you like? Did you ever get together so the KGB again cloaked term? They were. They knew that they didn't want to hedge their bets. On one person they were being smart about things so they're basically showering Los Alamos with as many intercepts that they could come up with. It could bring information back to Russia and help. Russia's efforts to develop the A-BOMB or develop nuclear weaponry before the US gets it first right so greenglass in nineteen forty four. He was living in Los Alamos and his wife. Ruth had actually settled in a boardinghouse in Albuquerque again in nineteen forty four and he would come from Los Alamos to go and visit her two hours. Yeah and so they were staying. She was staying in this boarding house. Not just because they were working on this spy plan but because they they did love each other and they wanted to try to be as close to each other as possible so she was staying at a boarding house and she was serving as the Messenger so greenglass would come bring the information and then ruth would pass it on to Julius Rosenberg now. Julius WAS MARRIED TO DAVID SISTER. Ethel Ethel Rosenberg. David's wife. Ruth was staying at the boardinghouse in Albuquerque and the boarding house. If you look at it. It's still here in Albuquerque. It's known as the spy house. It's a bed and breakfast. You can actually go and stay there. Which ago took it out. I would be into that. It's really beautiful. People have weddings. There will like you said it's on High Street. The Victorian style probably two story house. Yep Exactly Yep so. They have the same exact room where Ruth Greenglass and David Greenglass Staden when he was shuttling the nuclear secrets to his wife to eventually pass on to his brother-in-law Julius Rosenberg So greenglass later became known as code-named Bumblebee. So if I go back to make what are these things have in common trump whitesands bumblebee? Now you're getting more the picture. So he's Bumblebee. He is Bumblebee. So it was transformers. He was the transformer all the time it was a car wasn't even human so Rosenberg. Not None of this happened by accident. Rosenberg was an active member of the Soviet. Union's like support group was a Communist Party member. And he's an American though. Yeah in Manhattan right so Julius Rosenberg. David Greenglass brother-in-law was an active member of the Soviet Union spy ring and his handler slash mentor at the time encouraged him to recruit his brother-in-law. David Greenglass Greenglass was an active soldier in the US Army but he and his wife Ruth had also previously joined the Youth Communist League prior to this happening so all of them had interconnected relationships with the Communist Party in the Soviet identity and the and the climate at the time was not as like anti-communism as it became after all of this happened but it was starting to build up. I think that like a lot of people in America were against Communism which stood for and They felt that it was anti-american that it was anti freedom and so for people to be like people were part of the Communist Party before this it was just a thing right. It was a thing you just like. I'm a Democrat. I'm a Communist. I'm a Republican. But then after this all kind of fleshes out it starts to become more hostile towards absolutely. Yeah the Communist. The Communist Party in the United States was more affiliated with the working class working unions and labor rights exactly and the spouse ings of like Emma. Goldman who was a huge labor rights activists who pushed for like the eight hour workday and women getting access to birth control sweatshops ending sweatshops. Exactly Yeah So. It was very common actually for people to align themselves politically with what was previously identified as being Liga communistic party. It was at this time this World War Two and later on during the Cold War that we obviously began to develop all this very negative sentiment towards that concept and it. You know to be fair. It wasn't helped by the Russia regime at the time. They were super brutal. It was a dictatorship even though in the guys like a communist buying on CBS. They were spying us. I'm sure we were doing saved. One hundred percent spying on them too so greenglass and David Greenglass already had his connections. Julius Rosenberg was encouraged by his handler. By his connections to really push for David Greenglass to share information that he was getting from Los Alamos so we don't know what that coversation looked like. We don't know if there was any sort of coercion. All we know is that David. Greenglass took information from Los Alamos and shared it with his wife and his brother-in-law Julius Greenglass Aka Bumblebee continued to share information with Julius and Julius is code named Jesse now was code named antenna. So the Soviet spy network didn't just end with those two. They didn't want just want to hedge their bets. There they also targeted a well-known scientist him. Klaus Fuchs like we talked about and his code name was Charles in his counterpart. A R. L Z yes. Yeah sorry no it's okay. That was weird. Yeah maybe that's like the Russian version I duNno and his counterpart to transfer information. Was Ted Hall code-named Millard Millard? Millard Miller is that like a bird that's Mallard L. Malehda Dwight so. I watched a couple of documentaries about this. Whole thing and hall was allegedly a genius like he was Super Smart Scientific mind he was young and there was one scientists that work with him on this project and he said that he could do things like ninety percent faster than everybody else because he was just so smart now so hall and Fuchs. Focus was primarily on the use of uranium specifically. You two three five power their dispatches for that research didn't get didn't end up reaching Moscow until much later on so we don't really know that their spy efforts had a huge impact because for some reason their information didn't get to Moscow in timely fashion also Ted Hall was working with his former roommate another career for the Soviet Union and his name was Saville. Sax and Sax would also shuttle secrets so they would also have clandestine meetings at UNM campus really. Yeah in in this book that I found a spice guy to Santa Fe and Albuquerque. They have photos of like specific locations at UNM that they met at location specific to Santa Fe that the spies would meet out to share information. So it's really cool so everytime driving around campus. I always remember like Oh my God these people here like these people were here physically standing here sharing nuclear secrets. It's so crazy that's insane. And also like the way that they distributed this information back to Russia was pretty crazy like I. I saw this whole thing about the Telegraph and the telegram So they would just send these wire cables through Western Union back. Then it wasn't just money money union me some money on Western Union area. No but they they actually would send these secrets through a coded message and the code itself was so complicated like I got really confused watching and learning about how they did the code but they said that even today with supercomputers the way they are. They're still basically unbreakable as you have the key and so there was one guy in particular who was working in Los Alamos to decode all of these cables and figured it out. How so he actually learned all of these code names. He knew he's one of the discovered Charles and Bumblebee and all these other things. He's a very smart guy who's like multi-lingual that's the only reason. He was able to decode this. How he knew Russian he knew English these other languages and he figured out the code cracked the code and was able to determine that we were actually losing all of these secrets. All of these top secret things that were going on with this project. We're just going right to Russia. Wow it was amazing I will show. Is THAT SMART. It'd be a spy but I would just rub it in people's faces fund Los Alamos actually has the highest percentage of a master's level educated people in the state rousted. But what do you got? You're welcome have you like them? Apples the real smart Boston. I Dunno actress because I might he? I don't know I was thinking of goodwill hunting mark. Wahlberg again no Matt Damon. I think more complex in goodwill I know you said Boston. Oh yeah but it. Doesn't it takes place in Boston? Harbor Hav Greenglass was eventually apprehended in one thousand nine hundred fifty when his transgressions were discovered World War Two was over but the US was entering a phase a new war and that was a Cold War with Russia. So we also know this as the red scare so Russia was enemy numero uno number one. Sorry Putin Yup Sills Green glass quickly. Dimed out Julius and his sister Ethel in order to secure protection for he and his wife. We wanted you to say dimed out. What is that route it out? You're getting mad because I'm using this expression. Dimed out. I use the phrase dimed out in always read it out to be only one. You're saying it's not a New Mexico. That's fine I've always said dimed out. Yeah he sold them out. He sold amount out. He dimed him out. He sold them out. Hopefully your listeners will support me in the use of the expression timed out. They won't support so obviously in order to protect himself and his wife led to the fall of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg he basically just bitched out. I mean he totally threw them under the bus. It's really unclear if he ever regretted this. Like you can find some old photos of. When he's leaving the court after testifying against his sister and his brother-in-law he doesn't look distraught or upset. I think he ended up living under an assumed name and died later on. I think one researcher found out where he lived and made contact with him but he didn't share any sort of reflection on any sort of sense of guilt or or anything so it's I think it would be complicated to unravel what that dynamic looks like especially when it came to who bore the majority of the responsibility where was everybody equal partners or what but who board the majority of the consequences right. That's the real quick. Yeah so yeah so going into that point. Let's talk about. Ethel and Julius is prosecution. So Roy Cohen became a lead prosecutor of the Rosenberg trial. They were eventually executed in one thousand nine hundred eighty four. After being found guilty of espionage. They died by electric chair. Okay sadly they left behind two young children and also. There's a lot of like I think that your point here and my point is that there are a lot of other people involved. They did not suffer even close to that level of consequence and the level of involvement. I think is questionable especially on. Ethel's part that her son is really advocating for justice for her claiming that she was wrongfully accused. I know that she was Communist Party. American which was the thing back then. But there's a lot of questions about how involved she was directly as opposed to her brother's wife Right. Who was ruth? Greenglass was very involved and admittedly so and not just that but like hall and Fuchs and all these other people. They didn't get electrocuted right now. That's a really good point for some reason. Cohen have is is laser pointed towards Ethel and Julius. He's GonNa make an example out of them again. If you get a chance to check out angels in America there's Roy Cohen's character is played by Elba Chino Rosenberg's played by Meryl Streep and he's kind of suffering is a national treasure and her spirit comes to talk to him. It's really profound. It's really good acting Just a little bit of a segue if you get a chance to check it out. So Roy Cohen was infamous in his own right. So he was really infamous for his role. During the McCarthy era the Red Scare Court theism McCarthyism. There were hearings after hearings. Were people were being targeted at accused of being communist specifically in Hollywood actors actresses probably what you would call like more liberal minded. Today were being blacklisted and labeled as Communist. Once you're blacklisted. That basically meant you could never work again. You're labelled as a communist sympathizer an active member of the party in. You didn't deserve to work again. And the big big people. Spearing that efforts were Roy. Cohn and Senator McCarthy from Wisconsin Wisconsin or at home was from New York. It's also suspected that Roy. Cohn was a closeted homosexual. He later went on to advise. Donald Trump. Our current President Rupert Murdoch the Right Fox News and he was also known as a fixer among the political realms. He was also known to be incredibly highly unethical lear on his life he being disbarred and he later succumbed to complications associated with AIDS whoever he did his best to hide this illness. And so again. If you have a chance to check out those in America please check it out. It really diced X. More of that dichotomy that he posed where he probably was a gay man but his outward presentation the way he treated other people was really horrific and the epitome of hypocrisy Ethel. Julius Rosenberg felt the brunt of whatever aggression he for. Some reason held against people who identified as communists and. That's not to say that they were innocent. Because I that definitely. Julius was involved in this whole scandal of recruiting his brother-in-law and connecting the dots for some of these people that were working at the Manhattan project. He definitely was not innocent. But it just for me. The contrast of the level of punishment that they receive versus the people who were key and instrumental impressing some of these secrets. Really Getting Away Scot Free and there was one documentary. I watch where they interviewed. Hall's wife and she still. She was still alive back now. No she is now but she said that he had a moment where he felt so guilty about what was happening to the Rosenbergs that he was determined to go turn himself in and like confessed to everything that he had done and she convinced him not to allow but he wanted to save at the most. He wanted to save Ethel's life because he felt like she was being treated unfairly and there was a huge backlash before all the McCarthyism and everything started to really take shape and grip the nation. There was a big backlash of public sentiment. That felt like Ethel should not have been executed and they were protesting in the streets. And all these things were happening to stop that from occurring and and they're even several petitions to the president himself at the time to turn back the execution order and he refused to do it. So it's just I think it's interesting. I am not saying that they were innocent because I don't think that they were but I do think that they were used as scapegoats. Yeah we buy Cohen and some of these other people to send a message that this wouldn't be tolerated anymore right. I think you're absolutely right. And there was also a lot of anti-semitism associated with scapegoating the rosenbergs. Like Eric said their level of culpability was probably less than other people. But it's possible that because those other people were you know they were wasps basically or it was easier to point the finger and blame this Jewish couple for this this subversion. Sure and of course. It's completely aren't coming from Roy Cohen. Who himself was also Jewish but for some reason he had laser focus on this couple and making his name was very important to him making his name known and pushing the agenda of Joseph McCarthy so after the execution of the rosenbergs there were still always this general distrust of anybody who affiliated with concepts of communism or or Russia up to Ronald Reagan really well known for not trusting Russians. I think the Cold War carried on into our childhoods and I remember some of it I remember all of it but I remember some of the aggression towards Russia towards some of these other countries. That was still going not that it was undeserved absolutely. I mean they definitely were were fucked up. Yes yes so. Ultimately a lot of people wondered if Oppenheimer had any experience himself in the trading or sharing of secrets. I think a light of debt was also cast on him again because he was a Jewish scientist and again going back to the anti-semite Semitic nature that was common in the US but time period. Yeah absolutely at the time. People definitely have their doubts wasn't intelligence disclosure from US resources and you documents from the USSR that we learned Oppenheimer also had a cone codename delegated by the US are his codename Westchester. But it's been it was clearly confirmed by the. Ussr documents that he himself did not participate in sharing information even though he had been actively recruited and even his own mistress was a car. Technically a card carrying member of the Communist Party. He himself never that we know so far. Never shared any nuclear secrets with Russia. It does seem that the whole McCarthyism and all of that really did succeed in squashing. The Communist Party in the United States right the level of influence and and notoriety that they had in the forties and the thirties is not basically non-existent wrangling. So that's that's an interesting thing to think about yes. They got what they wanted. I guess I mean McCarthy era I guess you can argue with Success Woolen. What their motivation. Wise again whatever. People's political leanings. Are I history history But you know it is interesting that there was this complete annihilation potentially of an idea a political idea and granted there were these perversions. With trying to steal secrets. But I don't doubt that the United States was also participating in espionage efforts throughout at the world. Exactly what a communist would say Yup card carrying member? I do like the name Ethyl I do and I. I saw photos of them. You know I I feel bad for kids. I think that they had a really rough go because they were put into essentially foster care and then adopted navy and change their names to be their adoptive parents and I think that was probably because they were being attacked are followed the New Jersey school system. It's crazy yeah. Their their sons are still alive. I don't know that they still give interviews. But they from what I've read. They still like Eric said they still believe that. Their MOM's participation was minimal at best. Yeah it's a really sad story. It is time and a horrible story. I mean just the entire thing is crazy and the fact that there's so many ties to New Mexico. It just blows my mind a little bit because I was not even aware of that so i WanNa thank you for teaching me something. You're welcome and what we talked about earlier was it's the. Us obviously beat Russia in terms of developing the weapon. Although the information that is inevitably given to Russia did expedite their process. It saves them about three or four years I think in developing their own yeah Which leads you bunch of other things down the arms race and all that fun stuff not fun not fun but still interesting to highlight the role that New Mexico played during World War Two during the development of weapons. And if we can leave you with anything stay safe and check out the white sands whitesands check out. The latest Cabrera El Camino community is so good. Yeah well thank you again for joining me you for having me here Eric. What's the name of the book that you read? The book is called a spies. Guy To Santa Fe Albuquerque by E. Be held and he identifies himself as a former intelligence officer of the. Us government. Is He only Mexican. He was stationed here New Mexico for a time which led to his research but he doesn't currently live here. Okay that's cool. Well we'll check that out and anything else that you want to say to our listeners. Thank you for being interested in Eric's podcast stacey slash your hands. Don't drink bleach. Well that's more than I could say. So yes stay safe New Mexico. Thanks again for listening to consequences. Call us on social media on instagram and facebook at true consequences pod and on twitter at cons pod. True consequences is hosted written and produced by me. Your host Eric Carter Lending. Thanks for listening and stay th Mexico.

New Mexico US Los Alamos Russia Ethel Ethel Rosenberg Oppenheimer White Sands David Greenglass Greenglass Communist Party Mexico Manhattan Eric Klaus Fuchs Soviet Union Albuquerque Julius America Santa Fe New Mexico
New Mexico Prison Riot

True Consequences

41:57 min | 1 year ago

New Mexico Prison Riot

"This is true consequences consequences be true crime and mystery podcast the stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest Looking back to true consequences. I'm your host Eric. Carter Line Dean. Today we're talking about the New Mexico prison riot one of the worst riots in the history of the United States asks. That's a special guests on my show today. Her name is Lydia Willberg and I've known her for over thirty years has been a really good friend of mine. And I'm glad that she was able to join me. And tell the story of the New Mexico prison riot couple of housekeeping things just before we get into the episode follow me on facebook and Instagram at true consequences pot and on twitter. You're at UCONN pod. True consequences fully listener supported. If you'd like to support this one man show please go to patriotdepot dot com slash true consequences consequences and there are donation levels as low as one dollar per month. I'd like to welcome all of our new listeners. As well to the show thanks so much for listening to. I'd like to give a shout out to our latest patron Detroit Tigers Minor League tracker. Thank you for being Zia supporter. I appreciate you okay. I think that's all we have. So this there's GonNa be a little bit different from some of my other episodes that I've done. I'm actually really excited about today waiting for today for a few months. I'm I have a special guest with me here. Who is somebody that I've known for? I would say probably thirty years now. Maybe close to thirty years that it gives away. Our age agent makes his senior year old. My friend Lydia. Walberg is here with me and and she's one of my closest friends that I've known for most of my life and when she found out I was doing this podcast. We talked about possibly maybe doing an episode together. Lydia recommended doing the New Mexico prison riot from nineteen eighty. which was something that I wasn't super excited to talk about? Because it's really gruesome and really grisly. I just just. I'm glad that you're talking about it. And I'm glad that I get to listen. And maybe chime in a little bit but definitely excited to have you here so welcome thank you I appreciate it. Make you filling me the dirty work well enough to know that I can always be counted on to pass that. Somebody might I of the thank you for having me. I appreciate it And I WANNA talk a little bit about the resources that we use to research the subject Dick Matter so we looked at the report of the Attorney General published in nineteen eighty after the riot and that was done by the New Mexico Attorney General and his office and and that Attorney General Jeff Bingaman who later became a state Senator Fernie Mexico might also look at Article Call public policy in mental illnesses is Jimmy Carter's presidential commission on mental health by Gerald Grope. I also reference an article. I the history channel about a riot the Attica prison and that's through the history channel website also referenced an article by The Los Angeles Times called New Mexico prison riot lift legacy of construction soon intriguing that was published by Sue major homes in nineteen ninety and the textbooks that we referenced are the Devil's butcher shop than New Mexico. Prison uprising by Roger Morris and the heat factory by G Hellman. There's also additional information available title on Wikipedia. Of course please support them if you use them for any sources they need your money and if you have some money can definitely help them out that way. There's an article on vice. The talks a little bit about the history of the prison and the prison itself by Andrew Renan Stool and I said that correctly. There's a lot of information on the local news channels as well and There's this paper that I'm checking out by Mark Colin from the University of Boulder. Let's get into it. Let's get into. This tends to be very heavy. Subject matters so definitely. Yeah I would I would say take care of yourself if if it gets to be too much for you then feel free to fast forward. Just be prepared. We'll give you some some warning ahead of time before things get really graphic so you can skip ahead if you need to. And then hopefully he'll come back and listen to the rest of it so all right good. Let's get started so let's dive right in. And in order to flush conversation tation about the Santa Fe riot we have to see the forest from the trees of speak. When you take a look at the whole picture and in order to do that we have to go back decades and see how a miracle was handling or not handling the mental health issues in the US? So we need to go back to the seventies eighties even the sixties so John F. Kennedy in nineteen sixty three signed the Community Mental Health Act and that essentially launch the country system of community mental health centers in one thousand nine hundred ninety resident. Jimmy Carter signed the Mental Health Systems Act of nineteen eighty and that dedicated hundred million dollars over four years in grants to expand those community mental health services. So something that wasn't taking into account for Carter's Mental Health Systems Act was the expansion of entitlement treatment systems during one thousand nine hundred nineties. So entitlements are your Medicaid or social security income your social security disability food stamps housing supplements comments all those things so ideally was thought that the expansion of those entitlements would be a safety for those suffering from severe mental illness. Basically give them money to live in the community so that hospitalizations in state funded mental health institutions funds. Were Dick decreased drastically in it meant that it was harder to get into the mental health facilities that it remained negative because there is so much of a focus on maybe providing self-sufficiency for people with mental health problems that you probably started to you see. Some of the hospital counts in terms of the number of hospitals available decreasing even though the population of people that actually needed mental health services probably not decreasing at that time. Yeah that's a really good point yet. I think that the Jimmy Carter Mental Health Systems Act was naive to. I mean it was good intentions. They wanted to expand these community health resources and they thought that these other entitlement programs would really provide a safety if you net and enough financial resources for those who were Alexa verily mentally ill but that just wasn't the case so there was also assumed that when the severely mentally actually ill people were returned to the community that they were going to be able to get their outpatient services through these mental health services and that they were GonNa have family and friends to care for them using the supplemental income however was really realized that the majority of those residing invented hall facilities had no one in your life to take care of them so they were largely married worried divorce or widowed so the timeframe leading up to the Santa Fe penitentiary riot mechanisms tasked with addressing mental health. Were completely disorient organized. So there was money focused on expanding financial resources for those living in mental illness. But there is no uniform Approach in place to address the mental health issues and especially those requiring intensive long term treatment and management and researcher Gerald wrote in his article this disarray and lack of any unified structure of insurance coverage or service integration forced many patients with serious mental illnesses to survive in homeless shelters on the the streets or even in jails and prisons another historical footnote for our conversation about the New Mexico. State penitentiary riot was another prison riot. That took place nearly a decade earlier. And it had many of the same features on September Ninth Nineteen seventy-one over twelve hundred of the estimated. Roughly twenty two hundred inmates rioted into control of the Attica. Prison I heard of this. Yeah Yeah so so. They took forty two staff members hostage and thirty nine guards at employees were held hostage for four days and go she ations to end end. The siege basically failed in a last-ditch effort the state police ran in guns blazing which left ten hostages in twenty nine. I inmates dead at the time. The anti riot was the worst prison riot in. US history inmates highlighted overcrowding inhumane conditions and poetry from the cards is the prelude to the Violin Fair so this is a good segue into the state of the prison in Santa Fe at the time. That all this pressure was building up to understand that you probably want to know a little bit about what the penitentiary was like. The New Mexico state penitentiary was like leading up to this so this penitentiary entry was touted in the fifties as a state of the art. Top of the line. Amazing Prison I was gonNA solve all the problems that they were facing back in the fifties which were overcrowded unsanitary conditions as well as dilapidated buildings and things like that. The state was so proud of this new prison. They invited fighting the public to come in. Hang out in the prison before they brought all the inmates over so there were like kids pretending to sleep on the cause and running around in the cells els and they had like a little picnic in the yard. They touted the recreational area be able to rival any of the best high schools in the state so it was really really seen as this amazing jewel of penitentiaries. And as you're going to go into I think it slowly kind of went downhill from there so longer this summer camps. So keeping the the reasons for the Attica riot in mind again Overcrowding inhumane conditions poor treatment from the guards one big prison officials would be especially competent to these complaints when overseeing overseeing a potentially volatile environment like a prison but Santa Fe penitentiary officials seemed to have their heads buried in the desert sand as General report highlighted. The Santa Fe riot was not a fluke. There was substantial evidence and other secondary factors indicate that riot was inevitable. The Santa Fe prison had once been a modern facility like eric sad but it quickly follow into disrepair due to overcrowding and this was a further exacerbated by unsanitary unsanitary living conditions. Inmates complain that they were routinely fed spoiled food. For example. Inmates told a story that on Thanksgiving they were attention to. I believe they felt fed. Rotten Green Turkey. I also read that led to some severe sickness spreading through the prison. The people were just throwing up everywhere. Yeah really bad I mean I could only imagine vomiting diarrhea. You have poor plumbing loving due to the Overcrowding I'm sure it was horrible disgusting so not only was there an unsanitary living condition inmates Ross objected to what was called the SNITCH system. So snitch system was where inmates would be rewarded for sharing information with the prison administration. It could be information about trade deals. Weapons contraband anything like that. However Award Rodriguez I took it to a whole `nother level and it's alleged that if you give the administration what they wanted you could still be labeled as a stitch anyway and sent to solitary very confinement so it left inmates impossible situation to make sure not popular right? Yeah and to add insult to injury. Most of the rehabilitation programs being cut so the education programs Learning any subject trade. Those were all being axed on by the administration so this inevitably left inmates with a lot of time on their hands. And I don't think that's a good combination though. So according to the Attorney General's the report quote the first indication of possible hostage-seizure came from a memorandum regarding dormitory e two from Dr Mark owner a prison psychologists psychologists and this memo sent to Superintendent of Correctional Security men. Well Coordinate House on January. Second nineteen eighty so order allegedly relayed intelligence that he gathered from inmates saving that inmates were planning to take hostages. And the ammunition in homemade firearms were the used at a takeover so again this was documented in official memo again according to the Attorney General report a January twenty third nineteen eighty memo from deputy warden Montoya Toward Griffin discussed the possibility of a hostage-taking by inmates in self mockery went on to say that this hostage seizure. Seizure was to take place after the evening. Count Montoya Further States in the metal that confidential informant had stated that inmate cell block. Tia You were making knives and then distributing them to other inmates to us in a takeover so in response to the memo. Cornell's the superintendent recommended and Basically transferring some inmates out of cellblock three for their protection. And even though at least one ship captain had mentioned to his staff that they had received this information formation about a possible hostage a riot situation. There was no increase in security and then the information really trickled down to other people who may have dated it. Another alarming factor that allegedly one week prior to the Santa Fe riot the warden required guards to read need a riot plan that they had. But according to the Attorney Jim Report only to Steph members found the plan and read it and to add insult to injury the plan itself off hand lighted warning signs indicated a riot is imminent such as transfer request unrest amongst the inmates. All of the warning signs that had been documented commended. In those previous memo's there was also a massive lack of efficient communication. The official memos were not shared with the guards so many were left in the dark ark and there was just a huge failure to connect the dots adding to their stressful work environment. was there really poor. Pay which meant high turnover turnover. which meant that? There was probably a lot of inherent training amongst the guards. Additionally the guard to inmate ratio was a huge red flag. There was hundreds of inmates maids per two to three guards which is a huge disparity recipe for disaster. Yeah so the evening February first. Nineteen eighty inmates themselves veto and remember. That's the civil that was mentioned in that. First memo were coming in heavily intoxicated on hell brew some hooch from toilet y wine now for the lay person hooch is typically made with fermenting fruit. Sugar juices is water. Anything that they could get their hands on that would ferment and make a pretty potentially toxic brew sounds delicious. It's the ledge. Is that during this drunken events. The inmates started planning out their plan to overpower the guards. During the next head count. It's alleged that during those drunken Hunkin evening. The inmates started to make their plan to overpower the guards. During the next head count so one thirty. AM ship captain. Roy Ball and guard Schmidt in Martinez entered e. Two for the head count so now typically this area would be lit in the evening by these blue security lights so so you still had some semblance of seeing what was around you and seeing the inmates but in typical fashion is blue security. Pretty lights weren't working so they will practically working in the dark and a memo had been submitted to get the lights fixed citing security concerns. It never happened. So the inmates light laying weight and it was not difficult for them to be able to overpower the three guards. They dragged the guards into the day room. They stripped of their outfits that clothing the beat them the even urinated on them. One of the inmates took the uniform of catching more more ball. And then led roughly ten other inmates take start taking staking their claim on more territory the prison so one inmate uniform of Captain Royal and lead about roughly ten other inmates to start staking their claim and more territory in the prison. These inmates eventually came upon officer. bigfoot curry one boosts dose and Victor Dagoes and Herman Geico's Alba Curry were easily overpowered. Curry was was known for his size. Hence the name bigfoot. He was a big dude. He was able to fight off being jumped by several events at time and he was able able to fend them off for a little bit of time until he started stabbing him. which eventually subdued him than these guards were dragged to the same day room where the original hostages were being held they were two or stripped naked beaten? Okay so before we get into here. This might be a point where somebody who may not be able to handle some intense violence might want to skip ahead about thirty forty five seconds. Would you agree totally okay. So hopefully you'll come back and join us. Yes so what. The guards stripped and contained. The inmates decided to take their rage out on them in the most heinous ways so so allegedly according to inmates several of the guards that they captured were known to play mind games with the inmates for example they were apparently holding mail. They will use excessive excessive force. They would utilize the SNITCH system. So these cards were seen. As villains by the inmates. And they in turn felt the brunt of all their rage in diabolical masochism that was fueling the riots. The guards were repeatedly sexually assaulted by the inmates and then an actor. Though sexual assaults occurred the guards were then penetrated by their own. Billy clubs. Yeah it's pretty heinous. So Ah one of the key factors. The inmates ray able to obtain was the keys and with the Gar keys in handsome five hundred inmates started spread spread over the prison to the next box. Nobody Gates and releasing more inmates as they went over. Some of. The inmates didn't WANNA participate. They in fact act fear for their lives so the inmates block e one had barricaded themselves with anything that they could find no if they could survive if the rioters were able to penetrate entry to barricade God so as the roaming band of inmates starring taking more territory their aim was to get to the controller Lerma prison and the control was was like the brain of the prison they controlled most of the doors on Bush. The communication systems At the time it was being manned by an officer who cerro at around one fifty seven. Am Lucero inmate on to a radio saying that they have the captain they a holding him hostage and they were demanding a meeting with the state governor. The media and the former awarded Rodriguez and if you recall the former ward Murphy. He gave the white who had implemented the SNITCH system. He is going. He was real winner so Lucero had some time and he was able to. You notify super attended Cannetto that there was a riot in progress and started notifying his chain of command about the right in in progress and at the same time Lucero was then left to watch helplessly. As inmates started to swarm control center the Control Center was encased stained glass that was touted as being bulletproof but this allegedly was not true as evidenced by the glass beginning to shatter from repeated hits from the inmates with heights heights and other makeshift weapons. Okay I'm just going to say something. I love being in a Mexican New Mexico but can we please just stop cutting corners on everything. Yes this was. What forty years ago almost? Yeah let's let's get it together Mexico. Yeah it's really disappointing. To because because I can only imagine this guard was hopeful that he would be safe in this contained unit in that clearly was not the case. How horrifying yeah so many people surrounding you? Aw so the inmates then dragged one of the guards in front of the control room and they showed off their victim to Lucero inside the control center. They said that if a that if Lucero didn't let them in they were gonNA kill the guard and Lucero trading has all the guards have been trained was never to comply with the demands demands of inmates strike rights situation so he refused to let them in let they just continue to be that glass in. They were getting very close to reaching it before for officer who Sarah was rescued by another officer named officer seated Baca than they were able to escape just in time as the writers re penetrating the Control Room but one thing that was really unfortunate about their escape is that they left keys in the control room. So during this time the on-staff medical team of the Verma Ry were able to realize the the riot was too he plays and they were able to hide themselves and the patients. It's in the infirmary From the writers but once the Control Center was taken over the rioters essentially had access to the entire prison and this included the records room and the pharmacy. The records room was completely torched by the inmates. Everything was set ablaze and this was very intentional. They wanted wanted to destroy the records and this was before our modern electronic systems obviously so it was a huge deal very effective way to make sure you cover those records back then. The pharmacy was rated in inmates ingested. Anything they could get their hands on and steer is that a lot of the gruesome awesome behavior that they exhibited could be attributed to them interesting so many narcotics or opiates bemis anything they can get their hands on. Yeah and this might be another point where you might WanNa fast forward a little bit here if you're squeamish all because it gets really bad really fast. Yeah so the swarm of inmates inmates migrated to the Cantina food was plundered and then they went onto the plumbing shop where they were able to obtain more weapons specifically they were able to get a cutting torch which is a pretty significant development with more weapons in hand and you could argue more the intense effects of the drugs taking place rioters moved onto the educational building and without keys to open the doors of of that building. They were able to use their newly really acquired cutting tool to gain entry in inside the educational building a stowaway guard officer who net Hernandez had been able to hide in there but but once they were able to gain access he was no longer safe always are not as was very new at the prison and luckily he didn't have much of an impact on inmates during his short tenure there so thankfully his beating was brief compared to the guards who had been captured prior to him so moving along the way more inmates from the general population were being released and more inmates were being specifically targeted by this roaming band. A inmates once Pacific inmate that was the target was named warmer Tina's so it's alleged that he was a paranoid schizophrenic and it's alleged he was often targeted by other inmates due to his compromise mental state. A rider armed with tear gas canister opened his cell reported directly as had in fired apparently did kill him instantly. Which I guess you could say is the only positive in luckily wasn't subjected to torture if he was killed instantly so people were not so lucky right so the writers decided to set their eyes on those inmates of Yuan The unit was a semi protective unit. In the men in this this unit were usually younger new to the prison and could not survive in general population they were usually targets of sexual assaults or beatings and and as we talked about before the barricade themselves in the cells and first friars trying to convince them to come out but they refused than they try to smoke throughout by setting fires. But no they're one rioter decided to stick up for the men of Yuan in said that they shouldn't hassle the men of Iwon. They should just move on. This guy's name was Joe Madrid and nobility goes unpunished. No so he's trying to do the right thing and saying these guys alone but that doesn't go over so well in return for trying to deter the rioters he was beaten to blade poll and once it was clear he was dead he was strung from a basketball hoop as a warning to anyone want thought about going against the rioters throughout the remainder of the riot his his corpse was further mutilated from dealing from a row. Yeah or fine. So moving from the Senate segregated unit mant. The Band of butchers is all refer them decided to head to the full on segregation union. Where the SNITCH is for helped so an an inmate named Archie Martinez was known as the King of stitches and he was being held in the segregation unit? So Archie got a little bit cocky. He realized device they didn't have keys to the unit so he allegedly was mocking them as they were trying to get access to him. He barricaded himself in his cell and for a moment he felt pretty hopeful that he was getting out of this but they came back with that cutting torch and that's what. He tried to plead for his life. The drugs the anger towards the alleged snitch it was all to create a force to recent with or compromise with and eventually they broke through. INC bragged archie she martinez securing him to sell bars and again. This is where things get pretty intense so you WanNa step away from this portion. Feel so free to do so. So those south horror movies really pale in comparison to the Torture that Archie endured. He was beaten. He was stout his islands sliced off his eyeballs reserved out Allegedly won in May took his eyeballs. told him him that he was taking them for memories. nope yeah it's it's tough and he was continuously scorched and burned with the cutting torch anytime he would lose consciousness they would bring him back with smelling salts to continue to endure it as heinous torture. Oh yeah eventually. They sliced off his genitals and allegedly shot them into his mouth as a final insult. uh-huh oh yeah the use the cutting torch to finish the job basically and they burned his entire body. The inmates cut down his body from the restraints and they loved his quirks there for everyone to see and again it was another warning to anyone who thought of standing in the way of this bloody crusade by five am on Saturday very second. Nineteen Eighty Police Swat teams had arrived in in me called chopper. One took lead on communicating to the authorities. Their listed demands chopper. One made it clear that if a raid was attempted by authorities they were a killer hostages. Catherine Wall was still alive and he was forced to tell authorities that the inmates were telling the truth. About how the threat to kill the hostages. You made it clear that they were not messing around Rodriguez the former award in. It'll help create this powder keg when could argue with his SNITCH system. Got On radio and started communicate with chopper one. Although one could argue that Rodriguez was the architect of so many systematic. Nick failures inmates still for some reason. Sit On speaking with him. He was able to negotiate the the injured inmates bomb release so the the injured inmates were allowed to slowly trickle out of the prison amongst them. What would happen to be a disguised? Prison Guard in hermit GEICO's and luckily he. He had been hidden by some sympathetic sympathetic inmates who had dressed him in inmates clothing aging giftable pipe to carry so he could get out undetected. Yeah look ahead so eventually. The National Guard was on. Its Way and Rodriguez kept leak. Communication Shopper One. Rodriguez Rodriguez wants to know how many hostages were being held. What their condition was chopper? One wanted to push. Pass all these little details and get to the negotiations and Chopper during that. If they didn't negotiate the outcome would be worse than Attica in Attica being what we referenced earlier was considered consider the worst prison right at the time so it makes for barricaded themselves in their units began breaking through the windows with whatever they could find. They wanted to get out so desperately that they were willing to take a chance surrounding authorities rather than being stuck with this murder squad on the prowl inside the prison and while hello murder squad roamed the halls. Inmates were being beaten. They're being burned to death. Charred bodies were strewn about eventually members of the Aryan Brotherhood observed a man in his cell who began begging for his life and according to the books we read Irian. Writers made clear that the only way he could live was killed the inmate next to sell a severely mentally ill black inmate named Paulina. Paul the inmate comply he charged Paulina Lena's cell and attacked him with a butcher knife however the white supremacist trolls were not satisfied with this. Minimalist approach is standing the butcher night so so they pinned Paulina down on the ground and saw his head off. No a imagine. Imagine being there and yeah. I'm sick to my stomach Ari. Yeah the the things people do to each other. The things humans are capable of. It's so awful so other writers turn turn their attention to inmates that they considered the worst of the worst in as you can imagine this were in me to refuse of sex offenses against children. One inmates specifically typically the Jimmy Perrin was targeted. So Jimmy Karen was serving license for the rape and murder two little girls and their mother. Inmates grabbed grabbed him. Tie Him up into their time. Torching his body if again if at any moment he lost consciousness he'll be brought back with smelling salts and and he was forced to endure this personal health for quite some time. I- Sunday morning. The killings continued chopper went continued to make demands and and one of the demands on his list was to speak to the media about the conditions inside the prison so several reporters a cameraman actually volunteer to go into the prison and were able to talk to inmates along with negotiator. According to the Attorney General Report thirty four hours after the takeover dormitory a two inmates got the televised news conference that they persistently demanded just afternoons Sunday Employees Academy and and a cameraman set up an interview with inmate negotiators and inmates and they were able to see some of the the heinous situation's going on inside the prison by Sunday afternoon. Inmates have been roaming inside the prison yard with only blankets to stay warm in the February weather and heavier ski. The prison in riot being in the prison yard wasn't that much better considering that there was still assault taking place in the yard and they toiled there air for several days. More injuries were accumulated ms the afternoon blood into the evening the loss of the hostages had been released in hand after much hesitation. The National Guard state police. The SWAT team were ordered by Governor Gary Keen to go in. Take the prison back now. National Guard the ST POLICEMAN SWAT team Very hesitant because they didn't know what they're walking into. They didn't know how many inmates it still had control. The prison became a weapon. They had access to keep in mind. They basically ran the prison at this point and were able to get access to all the guard art equipment November all the keys. Everything exactly But Gary Johnston Governor said you need to go in and take the president back so the remaining writing inmates radio to each other that they were going to go out with a blaze of glory. They were not willing to take a live all that being said they were taken alive. They basically surrendered to the SWAT team. So after all is said and done you have a massive gruesome some bloody crime scene inside this prison and you have a prison yard filled with the most volatile inmates. Some who genuinely just wanted to escape this violence in some who probably started the violence national guards members who went into the prison compared the inside to to combat and sees that they had seen Vietnam. A forensic anthropologist in anthropology students had to be brought into help identifying the chart bone fragments from so many of the bodies. Hatchet marks were left gouged into concrete inmates. Hack each other to death and and apparently you can still see these Marks on the concrete police were ordered to secure the inmates. In in order to secure this massive crise however in another typical failure the latter was not clearly conveyed to the National Guard who unknowingly began removing bodies in clearing the destruction which left much of the crime scene contaminated. I think too like back then to be affair to the National Guard. There wasn't the level of forensic understanding is there is now but it is a mess that they did that It happens all the time like year about crime scenes just getting trampled on because people weren't aware especially in the seventies and eighties so a little bit of understanding not not really a little bit. Yeah and again. In their defense they were told to go in and restore it. Nobody correctly convey they to them that they have document everything like the police. Exactly these are just people who volunteered and a lot of them later on shared aired that they suffered their own trauma of exposed to this group. Some seeing traumatize me today so okay. Don't send the therapy. I got my own problems so injured inmates eventually transferred to hospitals. All over the state. I mean the. The amount of injured was too much for Santa Fe as a community to handle so they really have a start shuttling people all over the state and then they had to send a significant amount of time recreating those records that have been destroyed. I mean figuring out who had been charged with what what was their background around and those gamified as leaders of the riot were criminally charged But since most of them were already serving really long sentences if not at life sentences another conviction really that much so when it was all said and done thirty three inmates for dead thankfully the hostages. The guards none of them were murdered. But as you can imagine Suffered significant physical injuries and assist significant psychological juries according to the Attorney General Report on February twenty second nineteen eighty. The New Mexico House passed bill to seven five signed by Governor King authorizing money to repair the prison restore services draft plans for building a new prison training corrections officers paying for transferred inmates and initiating the prosecution of suspected rioters and it also the bill also afforded for investing vested allegation of the events leading up to the riot. And that's where you bought the Attorney General's report which is very lengthy but really did the deep dive into everything predating the riots during the riots. And what happened after the riot. So it's really important resource in important important historical documents for the state of Mexico. And if you want to read that report it will be on the website up so launches. Yeah so what do we have have left for the building itself. I mean it's still there So I heard that it turned into some sort of tourist attraction and they could tours for the public to see the famous state penitentiary where the riot occurred. They've done some other stuff too right. Yeah they film the longest yard. There're sure it's a remake of an old film and according to cruise who fill their the definitely believe that it's significantly the haunted and there's a lot of paranormal activity in the air and any ghost hunters went there the travel channel. Ma I mean you know depending on what you believe. I would definitely think that there will be something and some residual creepy miss at least if nothing else out totally. Yeah I don't want to. I'm kind of curious to go not to exploit the tragedy but I'm genuinely interested in seeing the space to kind of think about flush it out more. I guess maybe we can go. Yeah Organiz a true consequences to our something fun if you're interested Adler consequences dot com so I mean. This is a really horrific stain on the history stream of New Mexico. I mean so. Many things went wrong to lead up to the situation The one I don't know how many positive things really came out of it. Considering sitting the deaths in the psychological toll it took on people but I think it did remind the state they needed to invest the more honestly in their collections. And hopefully we learned our lesson as the state government in terms of making sure. This doesn't happen again but this I think became the worst prison riot in. US history right like a right even though Atika have more deaths. Yes because the brutality of the murders that occurred in the Santa Fe riot. That's why it's considered to be so much more severe. Well thanks for thanks for. I don't know thanks I guess thanks for hanging out with me and traumatize. Yeah it's nice to have somebody else talking to the microphone. Not just me. It's kind of a nice change. Not really part of your and my waste aced I changed. Hopefully we'll do it again some time. You won't find another subject. I'm down for that absolutely thinks Lydia. Thank you eric. Thanks again for listening to drew consequences. The show is hosted produced and written by me. Eric Carter Line Dean. Thanks again in for listening and stay safe New Mexico

New Mexico Santa Fe Attorney United States Rodriguez Rodriguez officer. Lydia Willberg Archie Martinez Mexico National Guard Jimmy Carter Prison Guard Lucero UCONN Attica Carter Line Dean Eric Detroit Tigers Minor League Zia
Should You Live in New Mexico

Move or Improve

25:31 min | 1 year ago

Should You Live in New Mexico

"Hey I'm andy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the differ Harry's came out of a frustrating experience. I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced over designed and out of touch. At Harry's our approach is simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars. Each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like by a world class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering one hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with this special offer get a Harry starter. Set with a five Blade Razor waited handle Shave Gel and travel cover offered just three bucks plus free shipping go to Harrys DOT COM and enter five thousand at checkout. That's Harrys Dot com code. Five thousand enjoy enjoy Hello and welcome to move improve with Debbie. Thanks for joining me today. I'm privileged edge to welcome how logs done and he is an associate broker in real estate in Santa Fe New Mexico. And he's going to talk to us today about the pleasures of retiring in living in New Mexico and this will be a regular program every month. The difference is it will be living in a different part of the country to enjoy life and retirement someplace else other than where you you live. So Welcome to show Hal. I'm so glad you could join me today. Thank you Debbie. It's wonderful to be with you and I hope the weather is wonderful. Will there in New Mexico today. It's it's just cleared up. It's nice and sunny. Oh that's great. Well tell me I know you've been in New Mexico so for a while now and tell me and the listeners. What do you like best about living in Santa Fe in particular but New Mexico in general There's so many things I like about it but I think most of all like the community. Santa Fe is a small city. I think the population is about eighty three thousand a great number of interesting people here and I find it very friendly with many opportunities to connect with people bull but I I made by When when I made my first visit to Santa Fe nineteen ninety two? I think it was like it was twenty nine. I was just completely taken in mesmerized with with Santa Fe and asked myself why we law to to come to this unique place and after several months several visits here. I told myself you know one day I'm GonNa live here and low behold behold here. I am and myself every day that I live here. Isn't that that dream came true. Well it's a wonderful city. Yeah I was so pleased to visit their few months ago and I just fell in love and I knew like you I knew I would love Santa Fe and it's just a terming town on and so much to do and I like the walkability of it too but Tell listeners what you like. Best about living in New Mexico itself. You know I have to say it's the it's the climate It's a dry climate here. I've always lived in fairly humid Environments but I think it's definitely the climate and the there's a natural light here that is very a nourishing I think I can relate to Giorgio Keith who came here from New York on her very first visit I think she's quoted as saying that would she came to Santa Fe or skews me. When she came to New Mexico she found her soul? And that's why she ended up relocating here because that that natural light here hello we've lost him. Oh which yeah I guess I should call it a low okay. You're back what happened to you. Don't know this is creepy okay. It's that old white eight New Mexico blue start again at the. What do you like best about living in New Mexico central and so just? I'll ask the question again encounters down joe three to one though. How what do you like best about living in New Mexico itself the state you know w I would have to say it's it's the climate the climate and the natural light here? It's a dry climate and having lived in humid parts of the country. Most of my life I really prefer drier climate. The light itself is the the only way can really describe it as this natural light that we have here is is what I would say nourishing it just really really enhances your mood and or hands his mind every day if if we have a sunny day which we do over three hundred days as year I always think about Giorgio Kief and her quote that on her very first visit to New Mexico I believe it was in the Nineteen Thirties When she came here from New York that she says she found her soul and I think I think that that the natural life that we have here allowed her to as an artist to flourish and of course the rest is history? We all know her her fantastic work We have a museum here that that that dedicated to her as well as Many other places around the state and also I think it's the wide open spaces here. I think that lends itself to kind of open opening creative. Mind interesting. Okay that's yeah. I enjoyed the Georgia Keith. Museum Liam and I want to get back there to go to town and see her a place there that she has and It it's just such a different low flow area from what I'm used to. I really enjoyed it What about the weather though? I mean how. Many days of Sun is get as hot as Arizona with one hundred nineteen degrees agrees. Or what are the average. No no no no. We're kind of more of a mountain and state I in Santa Fe in particular. Seven thousand has a feet above sea level so We never get scorching. Hot like you do in Phoenix We do have over three hundred. Today's of of Sun here which I love. And that's just one of the draws for me we do have four distinct seasons and of course we do have a winter a real winter and we often do get snow as I mentioned where seven thousand feet above sea level. Aw and well we do have a ski area about twenty minutes from here which is ten thousand feet above sea level. So there is I think this year we're getting upwards two hundred and forty inches up in the mountains and the ski area so we have a theory very active ski season. This year. Last year wasn't wasn't we didn't have much snow so we didn't have such a great year for skiers but this this year has just gone gangbusters for the skiers And they're all they're all in town. Well what about. How hot heart does it get wind as it? What months or is it? One month two months of heat or what will oddly. Surprisingly for a lot of people. June is our hottest month. We do get into the nineties most of June throughout the day but the nights get really nice and cool pleasant. There are a lot of people here the live here. It's still don't have air conditioning. Because there's there's only maybe six weeks of the year where people feel that they need it. They keep their windows open at night. It cools off the the House that closed up during the day and It's it's quite manageable. August is our can actually be quite pleasant. Whether wise. It's it does cool off a little bit in August and a lot of our days are in the eighties. So August is the the busiest tourist month here one because of the weather and two is because we just have a lot going on like Indian market so we have the great number of visitors Arizona. Texas Florida who come here in August to get out there heat when L. Interesting so so they come as far away as Florida. That's interesting what can you mentioned about the Indian market. That sounds intriguing. All any bark is is huge. Judge I if I remember correctly I think we'd they say that it brings in upward two hundred thousand people we'll Into the Inter our area which of course we don't have dearly the accommodations for that. But people stay in various places like towels or Albuquerque or surrounding areas to to visit the market. But it is quite an event. And it's just a a great display in downtown of the the Indian art and those artists will come from all over over the place to To participate in Outta that interesting various business week of the year. And so it's just one unweakened August yes and various tribes of various Indian tribes participate or is it one or two or no. It's it's it's everyone you can imagine. I couldn't name them all. That's amazing I one thing I enjoyed about the my trip to New Mexico was learning more about the Indians Out Out there and it's it was very interesting as to how they develop the area and what has happened to them since but I believe W. visited the Pueblo didn't you yes yes got got to See one of their ceremonies. Yeah Oh yes. Every time time. I go out to either while New Mexico or Arizona wherever I always like to visit the Indian reservations to learn more about that particular. Take Your tribe and I just find. I've always been fascinated with Indian culture and the Indian lifestyle. And I've always liked to learn about it and it's always fascinating fascinating to me. What goes on at these particular locations and all the rich cultural history that they have so? And how many ask those traditions down from generations. Yes and they keep doing it regardless of what the restrictions are on their lives and their lifestyle so I take. It's a great deal of respect for them but let's let the listeners know what what's cost of living like. There's a pretty good pretty realistic. What's what's it like? Well I think that has Depends on where you come from in terms of relocating I I would say it's considered anywhere from moderate. Probably maybe a bit high for some for some dependent upon part of the country. You're you've come if you come from a high cost urban area. I think you'll find it very reasonable as you're coming from Maybe a smaller town or a state like I Dunno Louisiana or are South Carolina. You might find a bit higher But it's still not unaffordable. It sounds no I would. I would say now. Yeah what about like medical facilities. I always tell people to be sure that they can get to a hospital easily and that the hospital is not endanger of of shutting down. I know a lot of rural areas have Facilities that are closing down just because they can't afford to stay open and I'm sure Santa Fe has enough population to be able to support good hospitals and doctors nance sort of thing so talk to people about that We do we have we used to have just one major medical facility and that was Christmas Saint Vincent. Now we have to Presbyterian you're in healthcare services came in last year built a major facility here. So now people have the option of choosing between the two of those the Presbyterian which of course is brand new is considered state of the art but cynic criticizing. Vincent's has a major ager presence. Here so we're fortunate now that we have both and I think competition is always a good thing particularly healthcare having having good quality Medical care is very important as well. Yes now if you needed something. Highly specialized like heart surgery or something like that. Many of the specialists are found in Albuquerque. So people will go there for for major procedures of Albuquerque's about sixty smiles south of okay. Great now what about you know walkability ease of getting around transportation in in a parking all that kind of stuff you know. People like to bring their cars but they may not need to rely on a car. It's much right. Well you mentioned that what you were here you found it to be a very walkable city. I I concur with that But most people that live here do have cars and unless they've downtown Some don't and they just walked everything or the bike or take public transportation. We do have a very good Bus System dedicated justice seniors. Joe I I believe it's free I don't think it has. I don't think you have to pay for it so a lot of seniors no longer drive for not drive. We'll we'll use that system interesting. Well what about in a shopping and restaurants art museums nightlife. Is there a nightlife in Santa Fe. Well sports the nightlife of nightlife abuse live music and But does it doesn't go real late like a dozen some of the major cities I think by ten o'clock downtown is pretty quiet and people go home. So if you're looking for a place that goes into the wee hours of the morning this is probably not the place It's far shopping restaurants. I think we have the shopping here is tremendous. It's really a shopping backup because of all all the artists and the unique Merchandise you can find here You should not lack for shopping if there's no better way particularly if you want to find unique things that are good. I'd like by the artist and the local native American culture. Oh yeah now. What types of housing can people look for in the Santa Fe area? We have a pretty To dishes mix of housing single family homes. CONDOS townhomes I I it is. We have a Art Architecture here is pretty uniform in terms of of the adobe architecture that were known for. I think that's one one of the things that people really like about. The city is is it. It looks different than ours. Anyplace you'll find in the. US US interesting. Yeah so what kind of price points Is it considered expensive to buy something there or do a lot of people rant. What's the price range for different types of housing there Prices will range anywhere from. Let's say one fifty one hundred fifty thousand for one bedroom condo up to several billions for Some of the single family properties that is is is known for having some very expensive real estate in a moderately priced real estate It's mm-hmm destroyed blank now. Well can people I I like to recommend to people that sometimes rent for a while to see if they really like it. So I'm assuming other than AIRBNB. There might be a rental department that they could do live in for a while to try on the lifestyle. Is that something that's available. I was sure a lot of people do red hair for the first year or two to get to know the local real estate. And it's you know often a good way to go now for those that really know the city because we have a lot of visitors that have come here for years oftentimes they'll do the short term rental. We have a lot of short term rentals that are furnace that they can rent for three or four months and while they're looking for a place to purchase interesting about real estate taxes if they go ahead and buy something new real estate taxes you can count on about one percent of of Of the value of a properties so for example if you bought a four hundred thousand dollars property if the county reassess it at full value value you probably end up paying about four thousand a year for that. That's not so bad. Yeah so what about income tax Do you all have the taxes on the income. Some states don't do that. We do have a state. Income Tax and the brackets or anywhere from the tax bracket is anywhere from one point seven percent to four point nine percent dependent upon your your level. Then come but I've always found it very unreasonable. Compared to other places that looked good now one one more thing about getting there. What's the closest airport? How far away is that? So if somebody did want to fly in rush and visit they'd have an idea of how long it takes to get from the airport to Santa Fe. A lot of people are surprised to find out. The Santa Fe actually has an airport. It was only the last few years that they started using it for commercial lights Because in in the years past it was used for just private planes but we do have an airport here and I think there are three destination cities right now That those flights come from or go to and that would be phoenix. Denver and Dallas We Avenue Los Angeles flight. But they did away with that. But they're trying trying to bring that back interesting. The major airport would be albuquerque and a lot of people will use that and drive drive up to Santa. I take the train shuttle. Well we have just a few minutes left and I wanna I to me history of any place that I visited is fascinating meeting and I wanted to talk a few minutes about some of the places to see in Santa Fe and surrounding areas like historic places. I know we talked a little bit about Georgia keys But what else is going on with the Indian reservations and that sort of thing Any special events a yearly that they have debbie there were so so many As you know from your visit hair Santa Fe's just rich history Santa Fe and in Mexico or rich in history Santa Fe was actually originated on the site of old Pueblo villages and we still have active Pueblos all over the state that you can visit at certain times of the year and and watch their ceremonies and there are other events. I I like to go and I try to to do this every year. On New Year's Day I like to go up to towels which is about an hour and a half from here and visit the towels Pueblo. They do they do the turtle aunts every year on New Year's Day and that's just one of my favorite to to watch watch and enjoy interest. So they put turtles in the dance. Dance Ah Yeah. I guess we should do that. It's it's their their dancing to some kind of turtle There's there's no turtles that take place in the dance And it's it's really fascinating because you have to when you're there you have is. It's not a specific time. You just know that it's going to happen sometime in the morning They do a ceremony in there And what are their quibble structures prior to the dance. And you just have to wait. Until they're they're called do the dance and then they come out. It's and this is just as the men of the boys that do the dance They'll come out and perform the dance and and it's just a wonderful thing to see. Well it sounds like Santa Fe is popular destination for retirees. But obviously you can only find that out by visiting Santa Fe in person and it's so very special place and people are very friendly and social. So I'd like you to share how people who contact you directly if they would would like to visit Santa Fe look at real estate get a feel for the lay of the land learned firsthand from an expert in Santa Fe. What's involved with moving snare? So could you share your information of how they can contact you should they. The contact is email and add That is just my first name. H. A. L. DOT my last name L. O. G. S. AS IN SAM. MDA's and David O N at s props that's S. S. P. R. O. P. S. DOT COM so that Santa Fe properties is where you are. You're brokerages located and it. It sounds like it's right in the heart of Santa Fe stroke. That makes it good. One thing I did Love was the classes that you have there And that is historically stoically. The central central gathering place. And I love that concept and I think it would be fun for anyone to visit Danta fe and if you go to Santa Fe you have to call. How because he is the expert on Matt area and I just want to thank you so much for joining me today? How and and Anybody who wants to go. How is the one to contact? So thanks again for coming on the show. The he so Moss Debbie here. Welcome Turkey later or K.

Santa Fe New Mexico New Mexico Albuquerque Santa Fe Moss Debbie New Mexico New York Danta fe Phoenix Harry Arizona joe Blade Razor associate broker Georgia Santa
Live From The New Mexico Museum of Natural History

The Children's Hour

58:00 min | 1 year ago

Live From The New Mexico Museum of Natural History

"This week on the children's hour in a broadcast from the New Mexico Museum of Natural History Rian Science in Albuquerque we learn about the latest in fossil discoveries worldwide including an ice age armadillo found in New Mexico featuring musical guests Rowan and the Youth Jazz collaborative. It's all in an hour. The children's hour is produced by the Children's Hour Inc.. A nonprofit dedicated to producing high-quality Ludi kids public radio support provided by the friends of the children's hour learn more at children's our dot. Org meow Wolf is a proud supporter of the children's hour meow. Wolf believes that engaging educational content is one of the best ways to fuel a child's imagination and that's truly powerful thing. Stay tuned for in our case. What do you call l.. A. Dinosaur that wears a cowboy hat and boots. I don't know what age Iran is. Source the children's hour from on how in New Mexico <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> there <music> yeah <music> <music> Rohan in the Youth Jazz collaborative right here on the children's hour. We're are at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science. We are so delighted to be here. I am Katie stone with the children's hour right here in Albuquerque New Mexico and the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science is a treasure here in Albuquerque for learning about fossils and natural L. history. We're GONNA find out all about it on the show. We're interviewing paleontologists and so much more so I I wanted to introduce everybody on the crew which let's start over here. Hello it's my hi. I'm Sienna Yellow Sally. Hi It's Miam- Hello Hi and my name is Evelyn hide seven hello. My name is Ruby Hi. My name is Katharina hello. My name is Daniel. Wow what a crew. Let's hear it for the crew. Everybody Hello Crew Hi. Lou Yes up here. We are broadcasting testing with a huge fan and there I would love to know more about this ban Rohan and the youth jazz collaborative. Can you give us an introduction and tell us who's up. There are the music director for the Youth Jazz collaborative. We have we have kids. This is a program for for kids twelve of eighteen middle schoolers and high schoolers. I'd like to introduce Roadmap Gypsy Piano and Josaia AH FIDEL ON PIANO vibraphone. I think you Isaiah Garcia on trumpet and Drums Zac Nunez on Bass Melissa Hinman on Vocals Ukulele and Percussion Grace Wilson on trombone. Tom and Hannah Wilson on clarinet. Well thanks guys. Grace also plays drums on the show today here at the museum <hes> we are going to be seeing for the very first time at a fossil that has never been on display before. We're GONNA learn all about it. This is an ice age fossil that was basically an Armadillo the size of a car hard to believe such animals existed but yes Rohan in the youth jazz collaborative. Can you play another one for us sure we're this is an original composition by on around the gypsy. It's called Mitre fantasy children's Sir <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> breath <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> give it up for Rohan McKinsey and the Youth Dad's collaborative the quite delighted to welcome back on the children's hour a longtime friend of the show but also a man who does a lot of heat. He Digs New Mexico like literally paleontologist Gary Morgan Welcome back to the children's hour so glad time in the studio now you get to show all your cool things to people all over here in the end the lobby hair so well Gary Moore when we have a lot of questions for you and the very first question is coming from our friend Evelyn Evelyn. Are you ready for your question. Why is Palin Child. Just we'll paleontologist study fossils but to simply we study ancient life so people study history they studied the history of people and we study the history of life on earth so and we do that through the study of fossils and it could be plants it could be dinosaurs could be our friend that flipped it on the giant armadillo that I'm GonNa talk about any other study of fossils history history of life. What is the difference between a paleontologist and an archaeologist. That's a good one. I get that all the time because not not to be disrespectful that I get it being get accused of being an archaeologist all the time mostly by reporters if we're out in the field and and it's a lot of archaeologists on my best friends are outlets. They study studied history of people culture. Archaeology is what archaeologists will dig up whatever archeological sites look at artifacts and things like that but they all relate to people were looking at as I said again plants and animals so not so you study the history of people the cultural a cultural anthropologists if you study plants animals fossils than your paleontologists. That's the difference okay so I have a question too. I was wondering do you find fossils just about everywhere in New Mexico New Mexico's terrific because we have a very diverse geology literally in the entire history of life. Not Everything is found in the all over the earth but last five hundred million years of time and we have really good fossils almost rocks of almost all those ages are represented in New Mexico so you have to know something about the geology about the rocks to know where to go. Do you WanNa find a dinosaur. You go one place you WanNa find a mammoth third one of these scripted on she goes somewhere else but anyhow. New Mexico is a great place for fossils. How deep are fossils are. How deep underground are fossils well? It really really varies a actually pretty much have to be on the surface for us to find them. We do a lot of what we call surveying. We'll go to an area where we think there are fossils and we walk around on the surfacing. We'll find like we found the bones of this eroding on the surface and then we dig and then sometimes we'll have a court we call chlorine. Sometimes they'll go very deep but for the most apart we tend to find things right on the surface they eroded out of rocks at the surface of the Earth Gary. Can you talk about the you brought out for the visual. Audience and we're certainly posting photos to radio on Instagram facebook and twitter but you brought out this never shown before fossil and it is quite a special guy now that looks like a toy that you're just as I realized through my career as a paleontologist not everybody's he's had comparative Anatomy classes in college so they have trouble going from a bone to what the animal looked like in life so I bought this at our gift shop. I'm not doc plugging the gift shop. I'm just saying that you'd go to any gift shop and a museum around the country and you'll find dinosaurs but only rarely do they have mammals. I study mammals. I'm not a dinosaur paleontology million dollars. You'll talk to Tom Williamson little bit who has a dinosaur paleontologist but any rate this animal was found south of Las cruces and it's actually a new discovery. That's that's an old discovery. I found this thing twenty years ago before. Most of the kids format to all the kids here in this audience were born. I didn't think it was much there was much to it. It looked a little scrap you so we made what we call a plaster jacket we use plaster and Burlap to chase the fossil to preserve it brought it back here and it sat in our Museum Storage Bridge Facility for twenty years until somebody needed a project we'd run out of projects and we have a fossil works lab right here. People volunteers will remove fossils Chirac's just about a month ago. The volunteers started working on this and all of a sudden. It was way way more interesting than I thought it was. It turns out to be the skeleton. Never baby flipped it on this. This is what an adult clipped down would look like if you multiply this by about forty times it would be about six feet long. Maybe three or four feet tall weigh about a tonne baby. No I'm sorry the adult the adult the baby is maybe not a baby sort of juvenile a youngster like a teenager they had a shell that was made out of bones very thick bones and you might wonder why haven't Armand it is an Armadillo I mean I'm just going to say for the listening audience. He's basically quickly showing us. Everybody loved bill but this giant lifted on is a relative of the living everybody's favourite folk critter the armadillo. You'll find that on the road in Texas all the time in Florida where I spent a lot of time. This is an animal. That's it's a mammal. It's originally from South America and the Glickman's sounds originally came from South America and that's a little bit of the story also how they got to New Mexico from South America but any rate these guys have a shell. That's actually made a bones so underneath what you see here which looks like maybe a material like our fingernails. There's bones and in fact he's getting more stuff his tray right now and there's a pattern pattern that pattern has helped tells us that this animal with bones this about an inch thick that formed a shell completely impervious your shell that was used for protecting against predators so these are called lifted on. We're talking to Gary Morgan. He's a paleontologist here. At the New Mexico Museum Ziam of Natural History and science year listening to the IT will be children's hour is produced by the children's hour incorporated a New Mexico Zico nonprofit dedicated to producing high quality kids public radio. You can find out more at children's our dot Org support provided by friends of the Children's fronts our <music> <music> <music> <music> row in the Youth Jazz collaborative. The children's hour we're broadcasting casting from the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science here in Albuquerque New Mexico and with us on the show is is Gary Morgan. He is a paleontologist here at the museum and also joining us Dr Tom Williamson he is also a paleontologist kissed. Are you are a paleontologist curator. Something like that was your official title. Oh I'm a curator of paleontology just like every so we're both curator's and your doctor Tom. That's right okay. I'm so excited you're here. Gary just is revealing to us for the very first time a glimpse to don that has has never been shown before and it was discovered twenty years ago but never really explored until a month ago and here it is. It looks like an Armadillo Gary. Tell us about these creatures. When did they live? And where did they live so this one is about two million years old. We found it in a fossil site south of LAS cruces between Las cruces and the Mexican border but the group. I showed up about forty million years ago in South America so they've been around for a long time as I mentioned earlier their relatives types of Armadillos at B._U.. Are Living animal that would be most similar and then about. I'm going to say three million years ago. North America and South America at that time South America was an island incontinent. They became connected at Panama kind of where the Panama Canal is an animal's could go back and forth. It's called an inner change and these giant Lipid ons lumbering along somehow managed to walk all the way from South America to New Mexico and left their bones behind for us to find. Is it important to study paleontology alien technology well to me. It's important just to be able to understand what lived on earth before and a lot of these this glinted on you haven't seen one walking around their extinct so we are specialists in studying studying extinction and this is naturally occurring extinction but as we all know there's too many extinctions of living animals and plants going on today so we hope that maybe by studying the natural extinctions how those occurred maybe we can prevent extinctions of modern animals animals that we don't want to go extinct. We have a question here from an audience member. Yes please. How did you find this fossil in the ground so this was actually as I meant mentioned in my earlier it was right on the surface? That's how we found it. Whether it's a very well known fossil collector in fact his name is Paul Sealey. He's the one that found the best Ibiza and it's named in his honor found owned a couple bones on the surface of the Shell and he showed them to me and I recognize my thought is a baby flippant on for my experience and then we started digging and I made what I described that we used strips of burlap so can plaster to make cast around this thing to bring it back to the museum but really just a couple of little bones on the surface and from that point I used my experience variance to determine the I think looks like something interesting. We should take this back home. Is that what it takes scary to know if something is a fossil or just a boring question very commonly. How do you know this is a fossil at it's it's really just an experience you know where you are in other words? I know that geology so it's a certain certain age there's a certain kind of animal from my experience. I should be looking for so when I'm looking for these. I'm not looking for dinosaurs because the age of the Rock is wrong but the texture the size I used to shape are different from rocks and we do get people to bring in rocks of the identified all the time that they think are fossil so it it happens yes. How do you know how old it ladies well that that's where the geology comes in we study? Tom And I are both taken. Many geology courses at U._N._M.. And other places and you can buy certain air techniques geological techniques one is there's a geochemical technique where you can determine the age what we call the absolute age of volcanic rocks and if we find these volcanic rocks that are near some of our fossils that will tell us that say the dinosaurs are seventy five million years old because of the rocks. You can't really for the most part date the fossils themselves directly so you describe to the listeners at home what did on looked like sure so I had my little model here. His little model looks like a little model but it's funny. A lot of people have described this thing as looking like a tank. You know a giant land tortoise that you'd see zoo there reptiles but this is the mammal answer to the giant land tortoise so it had a big shell big dome Shell. They were as much as six or eight feet long there are three or four feet tall and weighed about a ton so they're very large animals. They're very slow. They had this big thick bony shell as armored armored Shell to protect them from predators because they couldn't escape they were too slow and the other thing is that they were not predators. They were that very tall teeth that indicates that they <unk> a coarse grasses and other things got a lot of grit in their diet so they were herbivores. Not Predators armadillos today the the grandchildren eh they are actually and there are some study that was done just recently. You may have heard of this. They're actually being able to now extract DNA. They called ancient d._n._A.. From fossils from bones primarily Gerald from the Ice Age they did this on clip it on from South America and they're very closely related to Armadillos in fact they nest so to speak within the family you you may know that there's probably ten or fifteen kinds of armadillos and South America not just we have won the night the nine banded armadillo Patagonian South America. They have fifteen kinds of armadillos but within that group Armadillos the lipid aunts fall out according to the ancient DNA Gary Morgan is a paleontologist here at the Natural History Museum. Thank you you for being with us on the children's hour. We're GONNA leave here for folks to look at for a minute and while we're talking to Gary Morgan about this did on it got me thinking about the the biggest I beast and for folks who are not dinosaur lovers like myself Dr Tom Williamson. Can you explain the Bist I beast yes so I'm a paleontologist like Gary but I tend to find fossils. That are quite a bit older so I'm looking at fossils from the late cretaceous. These are are about sixty five to seventy million years old and I collect these mostly up in northwestern New Mexico so back in the late nineteen ninety s <hes> I excavated the Bist I beast and we have a big animatronic. A big robot dinosaur. That's based on the best I beast real name of. It is Big Stock Iverson C._P._I.. So the Sealy I is based is because it was discovered by a volunteer we're here Paul. Sealy Misaki verster is kind of a Latin and Greek and Navajo words for destroyer from the badlands. It's fair to say it at this. animatronic beast is he's starting to come to life which means every thirty minutes he comes to life and you're GonNa hear that on the radio here in just a second <hes> Dr Williams and he really looks like a tyrannosaurus rex like what's the difference for those of us who are not you to know how that that's not a T.. Rex a t Iraq's is the biggest and the very last of the big tyrannosaur dinosaurs bestow he reverser the BIS type East lived about ten million years before forty racks and he's a he's a distant cousin so he's not only older. He lived alongside a bunch of other translators that are all related to transverse rex. He did not give rise to t rex. He's kind of an off branch and he's we say he's more primitive so he doesn't GonNa have a lot of the same features of T. Rex but he resembles T. rex a lot. He's just smaller. Have you found any real large. Fossils news of dinosaurs like the T. rex here in New Mexico. Yes t rex has been discovered in New Mexico. Probably the best specimen comes from of all places elephant butte reservoir so for non new Mexicans. This is a damning of the Rio Grande and SORTA southern New Mexico and it made for a huge you know kind of like a lake mead sort of Lake that people water ski and vote on Oh. My goodness here comes the best I beast you could hear it in the background and would you agree with Gary that even your discoveries are right on the surface or it seems like if you're discovering something hundreds of millions of years old we'd have to pig yeah all our discoveries made kind of the old fashioned way we walk around out in the badlands so we go to places where there's a lot of erosion you find that in in the Badlands New Mexico has lots of badlands and those are the perfect places to find dinosaur bones. I love it and can you talk a little bit. What about did you always love dinosaurs? Are you like one of those kids who loved dinosaurs so much and you thought I have to do this for the rest of my life. Or how did you come about being being a paleontologist. How does someone become a paleontologist? I loved dinosaurs. I'm a You're listening to the children's hour we are broadcasting from the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science. Will we're GONNA come back with more educators worse in just a minute. This is Andrew Poly. Hey on the hugh grant to do keep a Saturday trouble up Dan. We can make it through got enough. How many times CBS things there's Aw hey you when the day's news came came Jason shattered between the Ah aw fish ah <music> loudest in Canada in two two three four thirty well aw also lead John blanding you know years ago. Eh Planning now the children will wake up Bob and the flies to get along without me. They'll say it really go it. I wish dinosaur back take on China <music> dinosaur to come back. I wanted to come back sat back down uh-huh the routes in the modern lovers. I'm little dinosaur before that. Tiny dinosaur is interim polly from a release called ear snacks and you're listening to the children's hour. I'm Katie stone and and here with a bunch of kids. We're going to interview next Mike Sanchez. He is a museum educator here at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science and we've got questions for you right off the Bat Mike Sanchez. Are you ready. Wonderful sounds good. Do you think you've found fossil. That's an excellent question. If you find a fossil you never know if it might turn out to be something very very important. What you do is if you find a fossil when you think it might be a backbone and might be a bone or something take a picture of it. Don't move it if you can help it and bring it to the attention of your local goal university or your local museum and let them know what you found interesting story little boy three years old was out in not too far from where we live here in Albuquerque and he found dinosaur eggshells and it turned turned out to be something very very important and so if he hadn't had his eyes on the ground and figured out exactly exactly where those were from. We would never know about those so so find something. Let somebody know all right. It's important the minute. A specimen is taken away from where it was found. It loses loses. Its scientific value and what it's all about. It's all about the science wait. WHY DOES IT LOSE. Its scientific value if you move it from where you found it. That's a great question the layers that they are in tell you something about when the fossil where what comes from age it is all this information if it's moved from that suddenly you lose that very very important information they do all kinds of interesting things with fossils even sometimes in jackets rockets they will not only get a G._P._S. point on it. They'll even put a compass on there and glued into the jacket so they know which way was north when the fossil was deposited posited after it's been found. Why do all those details matter like what direction the fossil was found. Why does that matter well. Every time we study a fossil we learn more and more and more about when the animal died about things that we never even knew kind of really interesting interesting is that somebody might be an asking asking a question twenty years from now that no one even thought about today and if we didn't have that information mation then that's stuff that has gone away. It's basically you lose it. Once you take something out of its context out of where the fossil was found or were was it suddenly it just no longer as you never even know what questions you might be asking one. Ask Twenty years. Here's down the way Mike Sanchez is a museum educator here at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science in Albuquerque and and telling us what to do if you think you've found a fossil I've just going to ask and you can just answer. My crew can just answer in a big yes or no. Do you think think you've ever found a fossil yeah. My Dad found petrified woods petrified wood. That's pretty cool. I think I found an alien fossil social and alien fossil. That's cool. I think you should you should take a picture of that and to show that in to your museum educators just like Mike Sanchez inches in the background rowing in the Youth Jazz collaborative. You're listening to children's museum in Albuquerque. It will be right <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> give it up a Rohan and the youth jazz is collaborative broadcasting from the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and science here in Albuquerque and there are there's an animatronic dinosaur right in front of us the beast and he's he's opening his mouth and closing his eyes and he sure looks alive. He's animatronic yen here around the children's hour we love to feature kids who are talented and that's why we would really love to hear something else from Rohan and the Youth Jazz collaborative and I think they're ready for us. I believe so they're getting in position and there's probably I don't know eight kids up there playing jazz just for us here at the museum and some of these tunes are original written by row and MC Jim Z.. Himself self and others are not but these kids practice a lot and you can tell so whenever you're ready Rohan in the youth jazz collaborative take it away. Staw <music> shy will <music> <music>. I spoke to because she grins. Souso mm-hmm <music>. Yeah <music> G <music> Rohan in the Youth Jazz collaborative. Wow can we give it up for them. We something something wow vocal Melissa fantastic wow. How old are you Melissa. Right now sixteen singing ever since I was in the second grade so yeah what of voice what an incredible voice you are listening to the children's. Are we're GONNA come back to more ruin in the youth jazz collaborative in just a minute and in the meantime. We thought we'd give you a little taste of this. This is Laurie Berkner. This is her classic but she decided to make this as a remix. Tell me what you think and we we we. We are the dinosaurs. Bill Orange Park part. It's time time <music> Saint Louis mm-hmm ed we we the we we aw sores were here and now they're gone. Nobody seen one for alone aw dolls on a sores Taran source rex. Isn't it interesting how the world has changed a source plants and some eight meet worms roots things that we don't <music> them imprisoning how the world is <music>. They do great very his tail award. Despite soliver his enemies will tell you <music> knows when he sees the animals mm-hmm sixty thousand dollars that this look like the <music> everyone hit the decks when they saw a rent a source left to his life always waiting for always always ready for a day or night sights so don't worry you'll never see them unless you go with your mom and dad to the museum 'cause dinosaurs with some lace. No one is sure nobody Birdie and find them. Many just their insurance <music> interesting how the world interesting how the World Enchaine <music> interesting how the world <music> <hes> that in the days of the dinosaurs when Durant Soroush rex was king and there were plans and insects to some of them had wings though the dragonfly was much bigger were then his wings were two feet across and the helped him stay well out of the way of Tirana service wrecks. The boss us back in the days deserve the dinosaurs Wednesday Zora sparked the round. They were big bugs buzzing up in the air. Bugs is on the ground though the cockroach men on appeal to you survival was his game and if you see I want to say that he looks just about the same it back in the days of Tinus owes two hundred million years ago and there were insects. We don't have now. Are you wondering how we know. Some of them were left behind behind pieces of them for us to five bosses. Tell the story to of the insects. The Earth wants new you back in the days of the dinosaurs when Theron source cracks was king. There were plants and insects to some of them. I'm good saying well. The cricket had lots to sing about. That's become very clear though the Dan he is still here <music>. Oh and some of them were behind pieces of us to fossils. Tell the story to you the insects the earth wants new <music> <music> <music>. You're listening to the children's hour in the background Rohan in the Youth Jazz collaborative many thanks to the New Mexico Museum of Natural History Rian Science in Albuquerque for hosting our show today special thanks to the museum educators deb Novak and Michael Sanchez Sanchez Paleontology creators Gary Mergen and Dr. Tom Williams the children's hour our is written and produced by Katie Stone with help from all of us kids on the crew. All of us on the kids crew and dress mm-hmm. Martinez provided are alive engineering and Jerry did Totta ran up Randa Board back at K._U.. And now we'll be back next week with another another edition of we're we're going to hear another one many many many things to Rohan and the Youth Jazz collaborative give it up for them. I hope you guys will play A._S.. Another one they're coming on with their last song. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you to our live audience. You guys are awesome and we'll catch you next week. For another edition of the Children's Children's hour <music> <music> <music> <music> yeah <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> the <music>. The children's hour is produced by the children's Hour Incorporated a New Mexico nonprofit dedicated to producing high high quality kids public radio support provided by the friends of the children's hour find out more at children's our dot Org there you can also find and our podcasts photos from the shows and our newsletter sign up meow. Wolf is a proud supporter of the children's hour meow. Wolf believes that engaging educational content is one of the best ways to fuel a child's imagination and that's truly a powerful thing y'all wolf dot COM com support also provided by the Albuquerque Community Foundations Infinite Gesture Fund our theme Music was written by C K Barlow Arlo. We'll be back next week with another addition of our kids.

New Mexico New Mexico Museum of Natural H Albuquerque Rohan South America New Mexico Museum of Natural H Tom Williamson Gary Morgan Mike Sanchez Gary Katie stone New Mexico Museum Ziam of Natu Wolf Evelyn Evelyn Dr Tom Williamson Las cruces Hour Inc Melissa Hinman Rohan McKinsey Natural History Museum
0133: The Politics of New Mexico (10/5/2018)

Two Broads Talking Politics

50:43 min | 2 years ago

0133: The Politics of New Mexico (10/5/2018)

"Hi, this is teddy today's at sodas about New Mexico. Here's some facts about New Mexico capitalists had defamed and the largest city's Albuquerque. New Mexico is raised thirty six population with over two million people. The governor Republicans Susanna, Martinez. This senators are Democrats tob Utah, aid, Martin Heinrich mcph. Oh six, three representatives to the US house of representatives to Democrats one Republican by all. Are you listening. Hey, everyone. This is Kelly with two broads talking politics. And today we're looking at the politics of New Mexico, and I am joined by Mark Ellison who is the chair of the Democratic Party of New Mexico. I Mark hard Kelly. Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. It's nice to be with you. Yes. So I have some questions for you about New Mexico, but maybe to start, could you just give us a little sense of your background in in politics? So, yes, I've spent my working career fighting for New Mexico kids and families, especially those that were given the best start in life, and I've seen how the system helps families and how it hurts them. After I retired from that time, I got really involved in politics. I led the Obama campaign in two thousand twelve in my county, and after that became county chair and had the opportunity to see how things work from the ground up. So I've been sin. Became state chair. I've been taking what I learned it my county level together with everything. Great. That's going on all over the state, and we're developing really exciting and outstanding grassroots campaign in Mexico. I don't know if you know much about Mexico, but we're the fifth largest state in the country you geographically, and we've got some little less than two million people. So we've got a lot of wide open spaces, a lot of territory to cover rural areas, and then a couple of three urban areas as well. New Mexico is the place where they make western movies just to give you an idea of our landscape. Okay. So it looks to me at least on papers, looking at the numbers and things like New Mexico is one of the states that's most quickly sort of shifting toward the Democratic Party. For instance, in the state House, Democrats, Scott control in twenty sixteen, you know where a lot of states in the midwest, especially. Seem to be shifting more toward the Republicans. Talk about that more. You know, as that your sense as well, what do you see going on in the sort of partisan affiliation? So I'm two thousand eighteen in New Mexico's really unprecedented. We're not taking any racer granted and we're treating every races winnable and worth fighting for. We have a long tradition of strong Democrats in New Mexico. We've lapsed in the last few years, and I feel like we're just returning to our tradition and fighting for the people by taking back the governor's governorship. And securing our lead in the state house and Senate, and the house is up this year and electing are upstanding candidates up and down the ballot. We're, we've been pretty blue of, we sort of a little bit trending to purple, but we aim to be true blue this year with an we have a lot of opportunity to make that happen. So it it also looks like you have just a ton of women running this year. I in the state legislature level, and then of course the the governor seat not little bit about kind of the that rise of more women running for office. Yeah, you're right. We do. I mean, it's that's one of the really exciting things for me. It's not just the year of the women here. It's the year of first women. So we've got half of the top of our ticket or women. We have Michelle Luhan Grisham running for governor. We have two women running for congress, have Holland in district one and so t toward a small district to we have outstanding woman running for re election to secretary of state in magnitude Oliver. And then we have definitely Garcia Richard running for land Commissioner. When she's elected to that position, she'll be the first woman to hold it. We've got thirty women running for state rep. Presentative and all five of our candidates for the court of appeals are women in when they win the court of appeals of the eighty percent women. Wow, that's super exciting. It is. It is an interested in in knowing a little bit about the demographics of New Mexico. I know it's a fairly diverse state and I that's very exciting on the one hand but can present certain challenges for candidates on on the other hand, can you tuck little bit about sort of the the demographic makeup of New Mexico? It was just gonna mention that because New Mexico is one of a minority majority state got his recall, Hispanic population is about forty, seven percent of of the state native Americans make up about eleven percent. We call it the rest of Anglos or African Americans. African Americans are small percentage, two percent, and the rest of us are Anglos, and and. And we are diverse and we're, we call ourselves land of enchantment, but we can also be the land of tolerance. So we do. We have a multicultural environment where we respect one another and encourage one another, just exceed what it some of the primary issues that you're seeing in New Mexico right now, what are what are people concerned with what our candidates, the democratic candidates, sort of hoping to work on when they get into office. So we're, we constantly fight for good jobs for all new Mexicans and at a livable wage, and we're fighting for education when New Mexico unfortunately has been at the bottom of a lot of rating scales of what's good for kids and families in the state, what's good for economic development, and we're really fighting to turn that all around this year. We have, we have a tremendous opportunity because we have a surplus in our general fund for the first time in a long time due to a big oil strike in the Permian basin, which is in the southeast part of our state, we, we're going gonna have extra money this year, and people are really excited about that and about the opportunity that that presents us to to bring affordable healthcare to Mexicans, to bring quality education to all our kids and to take care of our seniors as well. So we're, we're looking at all of that, and we also want to transition into. Fena ble energy future with a clean with clean energy and protecting our environment. So we've got lots on our plate, lots of things to do and and real opportunity to get it done this year when we let Michelle Luhan Grisham as governor. One of the things that we've been so excited about around the country is how much candidates are really working together this year as their campaigning and campaigning sort of as a team, which is that look like in New Mexico this year. Well, you're right. That's exactly right in New Mexico. In our Senator Martin Heinrich, he's running. His first reelection has been have been the visionary to make that happen in New Mexico, and it's really been great to see it happen Martin, as you know, is a fighter champion for working families. He's a real advocate for environment, and he's also an advocate for coordinated campaign where we're bringing all the campaigns together as a single team. We call it New Mexico for all. We've got organizers all over the state. We've got offices all over the state and we're reaching out to volunteers to engage loaders and every zip code in the state. And we really think the vision of Senator Heinrich to putting that together. Is there anything else that you want to make sure that we talk about? I just went, you know, we're not taking anything for granted. This year are racist are looking good, but we, we take nothing for granted. We were out working hard every day. Day and we wanna talk to many new Mexicans as we can. We want to understand what their vision is for turning our state around and we wanna we wanna engage them and making that happen. If we have listeners who are in New Mexico, how can they get involved? We have a website in 'em democrat dot ORG. That ganam democrat dot ORG. We also have a text program that you can find out for you can type in nine, seven, seven, seven, nine at nine triple seven, nine. And then when you get to the methods space, put in 'em and send it and you'll get an answer right back, you'll have a new tech scene friend, and it's really an effective way to find out what's going on in our campaign excellence. I am. I'm really excited about New Mexico this year and looks like such a beautiful place that it makes me wanna cut. Is it. Do come on down. We're getting ready for balloon festival. So we're excited about that too. Yeah, it's getting pretty cold in Chicago. So. All right. Well, Mark, thank you so much for speaking with me. I think it's just doing really great stuff in New Mexico, and I'm really excited about the direction of politics. They're great. Thanks so much Kelly. Thank you. I'm here in this segment with Deb Holland who is the democratic nominee for congress in the New Mexico, I district hijab, hey, how are you? Thanks for having me today. E. add. Thanks so much for joining me. So I, I wonder if we could just start with a little bit of background, can just tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and while you're running for congress. Sure. Thank you so much debt homes. Democratic nominee at one might primary election on June fifth with oppose. Opposed to forty one percent of votes way ratios very pleased about that. I enrolled at the of Guna that's Pueblo. Indian tribe is about forty miles west valve. Akhi both. My parents are veteran. My dad was a thirty year career marine. My mom was in the navy, and then she was a federal employee for twenty five years were Canadian patient single mom, my daughter, and I both graduated from the Albuquerque public schools in both graduated from UNM. We're both paying on for student. So there you go. We're working hard, not taking thing for granted industry. All right, it's excellent. Kato's a little bit about the New Mexico. I district where whereabouts in New Mexico is it? And what is this district like? Right. So district one New Mexico. One is the district of essentially in central New Mexico. Co, Albuquerque is the largest city in the district. It has rural communities to the east and to the west there some old towns of the town of bernallio to the new work, and they'll refu- precincts in the in the county just south of Lindsay accounting. So I've got the largest city in the state and district of got small farms and ranches have rural communities, some Spanish land grants in my district. And so I feel, I mean, I'm grateful we have a, you know, we have a big group of folks with different issues and, and if you know things that are important to each of them. So what are some of those issues as you've been talking to people around the district? You know what? What are the kinds of things that people are concerned about? What are what are they looking for in congress. So they're the number of things. One is New Mexico is a place with about relief ten days of send per year. We are experienced in droughts because of climate change. And so I talked incessantly about making New Mexico global leader in renewable energy. And I think we could do that. I think create thousands of jobs for people here, good paying wage jobs. That's what I would like to make happen. We also need to ensure half of our stages Medicaid eligible. That tells you a little bit about, you know, the average income of most new Mexican. So I wanna make sure that we can move toward healthcare for everything person in the state and every single person in the country. All at the same time I would never. I would always make sure that we're working to keep their for 'table Care Act intact and. Until we're able to offer something, you know, better if he will. Additionally, our public schools are always been made. I wanna work really hard to make sure that our public schools can can thrive here. I've been fighting for early childhood education for every child for the longest time, at least since I rented Lieutenant governor twenty fourteen and it might a lot of folks in my district really wanna see citizens United overturned and get to get big money out of politics. So that's another thing that's very important to me. We've talked a lot on our podcast about the importance of having moms in congress. I'm a mom as is my co host, and you know, it certainly seems like their issues that don't get enough attention because there are not very many months in congress or at least not Representative number. So in a in addition to to being among you're a single mom, and do you think that there are particular issues where congress has not been paying attention to the needs of single mothers. Yeah. I mean, look right now the Republicans are always moving on taking people office Nath and kicking people off of Medicaid. You know, by disguising it with, we're gonna have work requirements for the things not really not ever realizing how difficult to this. And times I I've been on both. I, I applied for food stamps during the time. I was in law school because I just really it was I, you know, it was this really became appearance me that it was difficult for me to keep good on the table for my daughter that I, you know, I relented and and apply for food stamps. I didn't say I'm for since forever. It helped me during a period of time where I when I really needed it and then I didn't need it anymore. I, I hate that. You know the the majority of right now is always working on, you know, they're monsters. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but clearly is not. That is not, you know possible for so many people in our state of New Mexico and across the country. So pot, my guess is that there are a lot of things, mom and single best. Single parents who were like me, who have, you know having choice to pay rent or buy food. And if them helps you to get past at home or healthy during it as really a desperate times. And that's what we should be doing and not moving to kick people off so that we can save the money because we've given rich folks and and corporations in our country tax breaks. There has never been a native American woman in congress, which is shocking in appalling, sue you. If you're lectured with would be the first and I know you've also been campaigning with cherise, David's in Kansas who have previously had on the podcast a little bit about. The importance of having native way says in congress. Yeah. Well, gosh, two hundred forty years with no native woman voice. You know, sometimes I say it Shirley Chisholm was the first African American woman in congress, and it took fifty years past her to finally get an eight woman in congress. So hopefully they'll be two of us and I'd be thrilled and honored to servicer is David. And so you know, I feel like my background, I grew up in a military little household. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents, my grandfather down at his field, his, you know, he was a farmer and he was farmer before he. He would went to work on the railroad, and he worked on the railroad for forty five years. Windsor Zona. And when he retired, he went back to farming. So that was that was something that he did. I was able to partake of of that work when I was a young child and you know, learn so many things for my grandparents. They essentially gave me my work ethic. I'm in my culture, I've, I've, I'm obligated to to make sure that I do everything that I'm supposed to throughout the year, and I live up to those expectations and and I just feel like with my background is yes, my voice important to congress, especially if this time when we see, you know, they're seemingly war on our vitamin women or on on our edgy public education system. So I'm ready to go and use my voice to fight for the things that that we should that people should have country. Other issues, other things that that are really important to you that you wanna make sure the that we talk about, you know what? Rupa UNM university of New Mexico plus night that students organized a forum for the CD one candidates. And so I was proud to go and. And speak to the students there. And there's a real concern about the cost of education for students right now. Few students did. One of them told me if the presidential scholarship, the other one may she gets national Hispanic scholarship that is not enough to pay for their college. We, we need to invest more in our education system so that didn't don't come out of college with crippling debt. No one's should go bankrupt. No-one should you know their lives in the put on hold because they're paying off their student loan. So I'd really like to see us move forward with ways that we can remedy this situation or Pell grants more scholarship money opportunities for students who graduate to serve the public so that they can have the loan forgiveness as they move forward though. I think there's so many ways for us to live up to our our obligations as a country. Country to to student the Republicans seemingly. I mean, they, they almost wanted to say you should go to school that you can afford. And if that were the case, so many of us regardless of what you know how well we we did in our public schools would never have an opportunity to go to a four year college or get an advanced degree because we would never be able to afford it. I think we need to look at this at this. The students are the future of our country, and we should as a country should invest in their future so that they will benefit our country in the long run. I agree. I work in higher education and the the cost just skyrocketing. And it's it's so difficult for people to be able to make that work Strom ical, yes. In over and over. You hear these students saying by parents could never afford to pay this. They, you know, students who get accepted to the excellent schools that. It maybe there can't of of having a deeper theory of some sort. They end up not doing that because they don't want to put their parents in a awkward position. I just feel we need to be investing in these Irv our country by helping students to achieve their educational dreams that I think that would help us far more than anything I saw picture on Twitter of you wearing us shirt that says, phenomenal woman, which I love. It was on the native women's equal pay day, which is shockingly all the way a September twenty seven that I saw that shirt. And I thought that just it's it's such a great shirt anyway, and it's just so says so much about where we are this year with so many women running for office and in how exciting that is. Yes, yes, it is exciting. It is exciting. You know, they, I guess they were getting women across the country to put on the t shirt, make it post, and and so it is truly amazing that we have so many women across the country like more than ever right. And there's more native women than ever before running for offices from the top of the ticket to the bottom. So super proud to be in this wave of women candidates and women of color SU. If our listeners would like to help out your campaign, how can they do that? They can go to Deb for congress dot com. The f. o. r. congress dot com. If they can make small donations to my campaign, that helps us more than anything I can think of right now because we, you know, it's expensive to run a congressional campaign. We're absolutely not taking one single thing for granted. So that would be helpful if they live here now occur. Erkki they can go to an MD McRae dot org and find out to volunteer. They can read host and re tweet all of our social media on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. There's so many ways they can help and and and certainly they can reach on our website. There's also a link where you can contact us if they have some other ideas I write. Fantastic. We'll put a link for that on our website as well. So dubbed thank you so much for talking to me. This is really terrific. I'm just so excited about your campaign this year, and thank you and can't wait to see you ensure Easson congress. Thank you so much. Well, I hope you're you're watching the returns on November. Six. I imagine when we win, it'll, you know, you'll learn about it on on the news. Yeah, we'll be watching very closely. Excellent. Okay. Thank you so much for having. Yeah, thank you. Welcome back. I am one of your hosts, Sophie, and I'm here with your co host Kelly, hey, Kelly face iffy and joining us tonight is Melanie stance berry. She is running for New Mexico house of representatives from district. Twenty eight. Welcome Melanie. Thanks, thanks so much for having me on. Thanks for coming onto our show new to sort of start off. We usually ask our guests. I to tell us a little about a bit about themselves, introduce themselves to the listeners in just tell us a little bit about how you came to be running for the New Mexico house up slowly. So my name is Melanie Stanford, and I'm running, like you said in house to Cirque twenty eight, which is in the northeast heights of Albuquerque, New Mexico in for the view that aren't familiar with New Mexico. Albuquerque is the largest city in we're bounded on the east side of our city by the beautiful mountains, the Sandia mountains and the district that I'm running in the neighborhood. That are against the files of the mountains and goes all the way at the top there, and I'm in native new Mexican was born and raised here. I was reassigned working family. My mom was seamstress than I was mostly raised by her as a single mom. And my older sister's dad also was very influential in my life in a group working with him. He owned a small landscaping business. I grew up during construction as well, and I think that you know, growing up in a working family grew up in a low income area. I was always very attuned to community shoes and very interested in how to rebuild our economy. How do we improve the while being of our communities and New Mexico in a lot of ways is struggling in terms of its forty ninth and fiftieth on almost every socio economic indicators. There is poverty, crime, education, job growth, and it's really reflected in our community is in the way that people are really struggling to get by. And I think that's. What motivated me in addition to be made by family that was always interested in public service and going to school and studying community development. I got a graduate degree in sociology and with always interested also in the sciences and trying to apply the sciences to help the economy and do economic development. But I, I was not probably your typical political candidate. I came home after graduate school and was working on studying land and water issues in northern New Mexico in rural development. And I was working on a project butting water rates issues. When I met somebody in two thousand ten who was working in the White House during the Obama administration and through this totally happenstance meeting with this gentlemen who was working there, I had the opportunity to go serve. I is policy intern and then as a civil servant in the White House for four years, and that was really life changing and. This amazing opportunity to take, you know, the work that I've been doing at the community level and work on work on his issues at the national level. And I worked on tribal issues. I worked on our science issues when I got to work with communities all over the country. And then from there, ended up with job breaking in the US Senate as a staffer in the energy and after resources committee working on the watering or science portfolio in the Senate, and I was working for two women actually working for Senator can't well from Washington state, and Senator Murkowski was a chair chairwoman of the energy committee. And I think that that was very formative for me and seeing two women leaders who worked collaboratively to always try to find common ground. So things sort of came full circle. I think as for many women after the twenty sixteen election, you know, I think so many of us were really shaken by. What had happened and and sort of how our country was impacted by it. And I'm like so many people is sort of woke up the next day and said, I need to do something and I didn't know what the something was, but I ended up going online and looking up the emerged program, which is a program that my older sister had done in two thousand eight. I think that trains women to run for office. And I enrolled in that program and started the seven month journey with these amazing women from all walks of life in New Mexico, and eventually was asked if I would step up and run for office and and so began a year ago. And so you know, it's been an amazing adventure. I think you know, for me running for office is it is an extension of doing community service. It's about giving back to the community about mobilizing community and bringing meaningful change in representation to some. You know. Community that has not had dot kind of voice and and our local and state politics. And so it's personal and it's it's just an extension of that community work that I've been doing my entire life and I'm doing it because I believe in New Mexico, and I believe that we can create meaningful change in actually build a brighter future silk. Can you tell us a little bit you mentioned sort of wear has district twenty eight is but but was kind of the the makeup of the district. Whoa. What is this district look like? I mean, one of the things that I noted looking at ballot pedia is, you know, this is a district who's been represented by a Republican for longtime. He's in fact been unopposed since twenty ten, I think, but it looks like there's a lot of registered Democrats in the district and you know, so is this something that's shifting? Is this something where there's Democrats don't vote? What is the district to look like? You know, it's interesting I the way I think about our district is it's really a cross section in many ways of New Mexico and of Alva perky. And it includes sort of people of all different backgrounds also economic places in life where like I said, in the northeast heights and where pretty near in air force base in the National Laboratory. And so we have a lot of folks who are work for the federal government or works for the contract being entities that are -ffiliated with the labs in the base. So it's very highly educated. A lot of people work, like I said, a civil servants, fair, very plugged end there where what's going on. But we also have a significant portion of our district that is working people. There's a major commercial corridor that goes right through the middle of it. And part of our district, we have a lot of mixed income housing, a lot of family. There's a lot of international families that are. Our in our area. And so it really is sort of prosecution of everything from, you know, working families are struggling to get by to really upper income folks who live in really nice neighborhoods against the mountains. But in terms of kind of the political makeup, it's interesting yesterday actually NPR had a story about a about community development and they had they were covering this atlas that had been created to look at opportunity and you can actually go, you can go down to the level of tracks, actually look at what communities look like. I was looking at it last night and for district in it. The socio economics follows politics. So as you get into the parts of our community where folks are a little more upper income, you know, older beauty, voting patterns that are more conservative when you get more into rookie neighborhoods tend to be more more democratic. But what I would say in general, just politically about our district is my theory is that our district has already shifted that it's already it's already flipped, but because there hasn't been down ballot Democrats running in the last several elections hasn't been reflected, but in twenty sixteen, our district actually voted for Hillary Clinton with Gary Johnson taking eleven for some of the vote in our district. So I think that gives you a real sense that you know we do an and our congresswoman who's actually running for governor here in our district did really well our district as well. But the thing for me is on, I'm really interested in issues and how to remake are stay in our community better and really focused on not making this in any way, shape or form about partisan politics. And I think people will on all sides of all, ideological spectrums are really frustrated and disillusioned about politics right now. I know I am as well. L. and so I'm really focused on how do we make change is actually meaningful. It'll make our communities better. And here in our community, we knocked over ten thousand dollars over the last eight or nine months, and there's really three issues, but it just come up over and over and over again when is crime or having really terrible crimewave in Albuquerque right now. But a lot of that is tied to economics and a lack opportunity and people getting in trouble and a lot of drug abuse been happening. The second issue which I think is nationally, you know, people are focused on is education, but especially in our state, we had a lawsuit a few months ago go is decided that sound that due to the way our state is currently managing her education. And then our education programs that in the way, resources are being allocated that children were actually are being denied their. Institutional right to an adequate education because money was being taken away from low performing schools. And so our public school system here in New Mexico is really bad shape, and teachers are some of the lowest paid the entire country, and our schools are just really struggling as a result of it. And the third issue which is tied to both of those really the economy and I, you know, I just mentioned that New Mexico's forty ninth and fiftieth and all these indicators. But we just our economy really, really struggled. And I actually think that's one of the things that we can be. We can impact most by having more folks in the state legislature making policies that benefit local economy because New Mexico has tended to try to attract outside companies to come to Mexico to provide jobs rather than focusing our attention on and seen in providing tax on New Mexico based businesses. And growing our economy from it within an ice wrongly, believe having grown up in a working family that if you could buy opportunity and capacity building and help people take their dreams and turn them into businesses that thought is the best for you to grow community will help address all the other issues that that happened in community phone. So it looks like in twenty sixteen you and your Ponant or both unopposed in your primaries, but you got almost almost twice as many votes as did. So can you just talk a little bit about sort of your strategy that was obviously very successful and sort of what you see as your path to victory. Yeah, you know. So I think that in and if you look at the data across New Mexico for the primary, we actually had a very large true a Democrats for the primary all across the state, and it's a little bit hard to know if that was because of enthusiasm and motivation for Democrats to vote at large, the way we've been seeing across the country or whether it was because we had so many contested primaries on the democratic side in the Republicans did not because we had those two, the contested primary for the gubernatorial and for the congressional race. So I think some of that is what drove the the large turnout for the primary. But what else say about our strategy and the way that we've organized our campaign is that this is really truly a grassroots community based campaign. I think I said earlier, I much sociologist by my background. And, and I'm very interested in community organizing and social movements, and how do you really mobilize empower people to get involved in the process? So early on in our campaign starting last year, when I stepped in to run there had already been all this groundwork laid in the community by people who had been doing what I call kitchen table organising over the last couple years, and it was people literally in their home talking to each other saying, you know, we wanna do something. We want to bring some change. We would like to try to get a new Representative for community. And so there had already been a lot of work happening. People doing that kind of organizing in inside their homes and talking to each other. So when we started, we consciously said, let's look at the math and see how we can create a network of community leaders across the entire district and bring in as many. Resources as possible to help train people on community organizing and on the political process so that we could mobilise together. And so starting early in the spring, we actually brought in folks to help teach how to do canvassing how to do community organizing. We started holding regular meetings and really identifying who the community leaders in every neighborhood and how do we pulse avait that leadership and works together to mobilize a movement across our district. So we, we've been very intentional about that from the very beginning and very intentional about this being a community driven grassroots effort. So that continues to this day, we have people Campesina and making calls and organizing house parties and every single neighborhood in the district. And that's how we've been able to reach so many people in. I think. Why? So many people have been really inspired and excited to get involved because there's a space for everybody in space for everybody to use their skills and talent and aspirations in dreams to to be a part of this movement. When if I am lucky enough to serve, it's what I would like to continue into the policy making process because New Mexico, the volunteer citizen legislature. So there's no, you don't get paid as a legislator and there's no paid staff. And so how do you, how do you think the big ideas for actually bring transformational change in some really interested in how do we take this expansive and amazing network of people that have gotten them caged in the process and use their knowledge and wisdom to help develop new policy of new ideas and keep them engaged in the legislative process? You have a ton of endorsements including a hunt just recently Barack Obama. Congratulations. Thank you very exciting. But perhaps even more exciting within the community is just the the number of local organizations in a special local unions that have endorsed you. Can you talk a little bit about building that relationship with the the firefighters, the trades councils, and the clerical association, and all of those how you've sort of Bill community around that? Absolutely. And I have to say the firefighters endorsement in particular in as something about, you know, grow up as a kid, you know, always admiring firefighters. When I found out that I got that enforcement, I literally cried. I went down there with my would. I couldn't stop hugging. My was so excited and and so moved that they that they endorse our campaign and I really feel so strongly that it would pass them into the amazing works of people done in the community to mobilize community to run a successful campaign. You know, I grew up, like I said, my family worked in the trades, and so those are my people. You know, I grew up operating heavy equipment, doing landscaping and digging ditches Mullane pipe. And I did undergraduate degree in the natural sciences that when I moved back to New Mexico in late twenty s I actually went back to school into trade school classes and things like welding electronics and stuff. So I think for me, it was natural to reach out to unions and organizations that represent folks in the trades and unions in organizations that represent community organizations and workers because. Was just how I grew up, but also because my mother had worked for union when I was an infant. And one of the things that I think is such an amazing three. And I've been going through old photographs since I've been running is I found the meeting with my mom from the early eighties where she was working as a crane oiler as a crane mechanic, the power plants. And you know, my mom's a seamstress. I was really surprised when I found pictures and like, what? How did this happen at the time? My mom was doing a lot of jobs, a lot of new Mexican have to do a lot of jobs to make ends meet. And so she was so lean and she was working for like services for the blind and she was working as a union fatter. And she said to me that she dispatched herself because they needed somebody to work with the power plant and she figured, you know, a crane is just like a giant sewing machine says she thought she could figure it out. And so she dispatched yourself to go work. The creed mechanic and spent several. Four years at those San Juan powerplant cream mechanic do not. So I think that the reason I'm telling the story is that I think that you know it's part of the process politically that candidates to reach out to different organizations on seek endorsement. But for me, in particular, it's been really meaningful to me all these amazing people who work in trades and who are active through their unions and who are really the people who are mobilizing communities around, you know, workers rights and economic development, and it's just been a tremendous honor to be able to do that. So you know, it's some of it is just what candidates to. And I'm as a first time candidate. I'm learning the processes I go, but a lot of it is just showing up and contacting organizations in telling them your story and explaining to them that you're trained to do. And I think for many people. Title my stories and experiences really resonate because they're so similar to so many families here of people who you know, grew up in families, which struggled to make ends me who you know, worked hard every day, but sort of struggled to ever get ahead and and so I think if I've been out meeting with community organizations, I think that people feel engaged in wanna get involved in this campaign because it feels like it's not just about politics. It's about the future of our state and it's about, you know, having homegrown grassroots campaign that you couldn't really believe in. That's about trying to mobilize change for the right rhythm, still, melody, is there anything else that you wanna make sure to talk about? Yeah, I think you know, I think that thing that I would maybe lead listeners with is something that I often say about. Out why people should be paying attention right now in politics and I call it my ph d. so I can remember it, and the first is of political reason. The second is a historical reason in the third is an ethical reason, and you know the political reason, but it's really critical that people pay attention and stay engaged right now is that I think that so many people, like it said, have been sort of shaking await awake and aware by the moment that we're living in. But it's so important. The people understand that every single person who represents them at every political level from you know, your city councillor and county Commissioner all the way to congress and the president affect every aspect of your life. And there are many, many, many large corporations at seven billions of dollars a year, dumping money on races and lobbying because they understand that. Every vote matters, and it's critical that every individual cares as much as those special interests that, and that people just show up and vote for their own interest in this upcoming election. So that's the political reason, the historic reason. And I think my races like so many races across the country right now is we're living in this historic moment in American history that is sometimes terrifying but also inspiring in Emily's list, which is an organization that helps women run for office has noted that the largest number of women that ever contacted them. I in my office with nine hundred women in the Las elections and in the cycle over forty thousand women all across the country have contacted me. And when you think about what that means, people who've never been involved in politics ever in their life before that women running. In for everything from school board to city council to state legislator governor to Senator who are showing up for their communities, and it will be a change in our culture. And here in New Mexico, I was surprised even learn, but to even have gender parody and our legislature, we still need twenty two more women to be elected, even have parody. And it's not just about women, but it's, it's, it's what is motivated. All the women to run in that is that people really want to give back and show up for their communities and that in another self will transform the way our politics looks for generations. And so I think that's so important. And you know, participating in this historic moment is important. And the final thing is really the ethical reason and it's tied to, you know, the reason so many women running in the reason so many people, community minded people are running and that is. That I believe we have a fundamental ethical responsibility right now to stay engaged and to serve our community's and tissue, what for our communities and to to do the work that it takes to take back our political system so that it really does represent represent the best interest of of of our people. So I think that's the parting thoughts that I would leave you with and you know, show up volunteered, get him followed of the candidate. I can't puddle you all. How important is that? You know, show up. I make from Paul's and hit the streets enough indoors because that's how we, that's how change the system. And it also is really fun and you get to meet all kinds of amazing people in it reconnects our communities than I think what we really need right now in this moment in our history in this country, malady if our listeners would like to support. Your campaign. How can they do that? Or Wasser fate? Are. Primary way. Obviously, if you're not able to come and she'll be here and knock on is to donate. If for a to my website is WWW dot Nonni for an m dot com. And I also have absolute account online and may. Phone number is five or five, seven zero, seven zero, seven, nine and I welcome any anyone who would like to be in contact and a welcome any support in. Thank you so much for having us on could. Yes, thank you so much for joining us. This is really great. Of course, super good timing that we asked you right before Brock Obama endorsed you, but. I was quite impressed with your campaign even before that. So apparently a nice the all the same things. So. Obviously. You know, he, he reaches out to me and asks me who he should endorse and. Thank you for that, but but thank you so much and thank you for for stepping up eight. It's sort of horrifying. The Representative in your district has been unopposed for so long, and I'm so glad that you are stepping up and running. Thank you so much. It's it's it's a joy and it's hard work, but hopefully at the end of the day it will. It will. It will make a difference in. That's why we do it. Thanks for listening to to broads talking. Politics are theme song is called, are you listening off of the album? Elephant shaped trees by the band immune Newry, and we're using it with permission of the band, our logo and other original artwork is by Matthew with Lynn and was created for use by this podcast.

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New Mexico woman, 105, who beat 1918 flu, has COVID-19

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New Mexico woman, 105, who beat 1918 flu, has COVID-19

"A one hundred five year old Mexico woman who beat back the nineteen eighteen flu that killed millions including her mother and infant sister is battling Cova. Nineteen lubricate libby. Greco has been fighting the virus since being diagnosed April. Twenty nine in Gallup New Mexico. The nineteen eighteen flu took the lives of her twenty eight year. Old Mother and sister Greco's granddaughter says she doesn't think your grandmother understands the current virus.

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Bonus Episode! Traveling Eats In New Mexico

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Bonus Episode! Traveling Eats In New Mexico

"The thing about food is that it's never just about the food sources the origins and the roots of different food ways are all intrinsically tied to our humanity from iheartradio. Whetstone magazine comes point of origin. Podcast dedicated to exploring that connection. We traveled the globe to connect with those immersed in different ways from Norway from Nigeria to the Appalachian Mountains and beyond fine point of origin season. Two on the iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is park land a prediction of heart radio. We told our Lofton Chicago moved into an RV. Now we're traveling with country fulltime whether dog thin exploring America's National Park and today we have a special bonus episode traveling eats with Matt. I really love these episodes because I love talking about food but I love hearing about food for Matt. First and foremost because he does so much amazing research Which I get to read those rewards for him. Yeah and this is a very special episode indeed because talking about a region in a state that is very near. Dear I love it. It's New Mexico which has some of the best tastiest regional ingredients in the whole country or that have tasted ever my life in obsessed with at all so much amazing flavor right so we're going to focus on a couple of areas of the state that we've spent a good manner time in on our. Yeah and we`ve. It's been very fortunate. Sometimes we make special trips just to worthwhile to go hundreds of miles to go to these restaurants and Breweries. Yes specifically but sorry. Yeah we'll get the second. Go crazy so I for a little bit of background New Mexico. Some OF ITS MOST ICONIC INGREDIENTS. Are things like green chilis and blue corn and peon which is the not. That's used frequently to make coffee there. That's bound to foreign places in cities especially It's also known for breakfast burritos which were allegedly invented. Here is you told me there. Yes supposedly they were invented at The International Balloon Fiesta Stacks when everyone was trying to come in early and supposedly. I mean breakfasting ended loaded with potatoes eggs cheese. It's like the perfect power. Like you know power. I guess and I had one of those. The balloon fiesta and it was so good. I miss it all the time. I had one at least once a day. Great Yeah and with those green. Chili can't get enough. Yeah so other things. That New Mexico's for these are dishes. Are Carney outta vodka to reno's chilli cheese burgers and stuff appears all of which I'll talk about here. And I WANNA start with Albuquerque. Speaking of the Balloon Fiesta. So Albuquerque is the kind of the bigger like biggest city in the state and more of a hub for restaurants entr traditional old school places as well as newer ones and breweries and bars as well. And I'm obsessed with Kirke. I love it a lot more than I thought I would. Yeah really great. They have like you said classic. They have like new. They have like vintage red. Magin like you know all these different kinds of restaurants and a great mix of all styles I think throughout the city and it all feels very cohesive and they all use these native ingredients very well in different ways. And are my first taste of Albuquerque when we arrived for the first time for the balloon. Fiesta was you took me to a place before called Marian Tito's yes my friend Dean Ricker from Chicago told me about this and I had to go check it out because he even told me that they won a James Beard Award as like a classic as an American American climatic classic. Yeah so it makes sense to. Because it's this beautiful homey institution it's been there since nineteen sixty three and they're using their original recipes. Sandy author opens. They don't change it and it's been generational. Three generations of family in that passion really comes through and these recipes are so like classic in so comforting and nourishing and this was such a delicious lunch and great first taste of Albuquerque. I think there's so many dishes that are like rich with like red chillies and green chilis and like native heritage. They have things like to reunions. Which are you know? Stuffed Fried chillies whoever does and then Kurnia. Vada which is park strips that are marinated in rentals and then baked and those are employed in a variety of different dishes here for my Tacos Burritos enchiladas all that and then you can also get something called stuffed sopapillas which they they call on the menu as Mexican turnovers. And they're basically do these like flaky buttery pastries and their garnished with red or green chilis or both and then fell to things like beans cheese. Optional meats like beef or chicken. Hold on I have to get out of here. I'm going to New Mexico. Okay okay okay. I'm sorry I'm back with eating Yeah I mean it's all really really tasty and then you ha- you have to save room for dessert and they have a things but my favorite is Mexican wedding cake and it's not like a layer cake. It's this more Bundt cake style with pineapples and walnuts and it has this like super delicious cream cheese frosting on top and it's made by the mother She makes them specially and when they run out. You don't get an hour right so get there early like we did because I do not miss that and then next up we have to talk about our absolutely favorite place now. Kirke one of our favorite places in the entire country. Take a detour. If you're one hundred miles away from Albuquerque New Mexico take a detour your ears because they think I'm an amazing job. Yeah my favorite beer across the country. I remember like looking at Man saying this is the beer that can bring people together. Yeah I'm stunned by this place. It's Mike Murray and the country like by far. And we just kind of discovered by happenstance. We arrived in Albuquerque. And I was googling looking for berries in Albuquerque. Cause we love to do that? And this is one of the top results. And I'm so glad we went here because it's absolutely gorgeous first of all. It's the sprawling. Lofty brewery with gorgeous like photomurals indicative of the American southwest. So it's very scenic pretty in here in well stylized but not pretentious or stuffy whatsoever very comforting welcoming and it's owned by two native American Women Shiloh shepherd and missy and they employed just like really wonderful heartfelt every time like employees there and literally. We have really good conversations with Their bartenders and their staff. Because they're very just tell that there are place that this isn't just a job or paycheck to them like they care a lot about not just the beer in the product but the business and the brand and who they work for on the whole in that really comes through so we love to go here instead of the bar and just chat. See what's new because they're constantly rotating new seasonal beers always interesting always delicious. They have things like hazelnut. Imperial Stout and then Tangerine Melt Creams Cobra. Sat My Gosh. That's I mean. Yeah and then they have one of their more routine like regular flavors is called Strawberry Amigo and it's fruity sour beer. I love it because it's inspired by flavors of strawberry shortcake. So yes please. And then they have things like blue. Corn loggers or that German chocolate cake. Stout yeah and I normally don't like stoute's or reporters really dark beers at all and this was Soga the German chocolate cake style. And it's funny because like sours but there's I'll take any of the week great and it's a delight to follow them and Ceram and facebook and just like see what products they're working on what they're releasing although it's also kind of torturous because I constantly desperately just wish from their yes and they always have like a rotation or Food truck that comes in and so they don't serve themselves but they do have a rotation of food trucks and so that's great because they're always getting a new experience and a new dish from another local food truck really awesome. I know that's a mass. We always go multiple times pretty much every night so that place has great highest recommendation. You also introduce me to another place. There called the pharmacy and that's spelled f. a. r. m. and so nervous and that's because they use a lot of local seasonal wholesome ingredients and they saw that which is great and that really comes through really does. Jane is the perfect time we actually together. I didn't I didn't go there before But I've heard so much about it. And then we went to their location and it was like their last weekend and then there are moving into another larger and so we were talking with the owner and he was just really really Nice Guy And he was like yeah. We're expanding a little bit. Just trying to keep modest but also realize that you know people want to sit down inside room so he was just he's just moving on over and We got two new place the last time we were in. So we've been too old location on the new one and the new one was just perfect. They still kept their same small vibe. And they're they're great energy that they had behind it but a modest expansion so they're not trying to become like a huge business or or anything. They're just trying to make sure they have a solid place for people to come and have conversations. Yeah they do things like Green Chilly. Turkey sandwiches and they have always have a different kind of waffle special. They have like both sweet and save ones with mark on top. They have carrot cake waffles. So those are always great empanadas. Breakfast tacos Egg Sandwich is all the grades Shebang. Yeah and then one of my favorite kind of old school places. In addition to marry Tito's is located in Old Town Albuquerque. And it's this place called Church Street Cafe and talk about an institution gem. Wow this place has been here for a very long time. It started as a private home when it was first constructed in early in the early seventeen hundreds which was when the city itself was founded. So this goes way back and it was privately-owned as a home up until nineteen ninety-one so not even too long ago. Was that transformed into a restaurant. Some really great Indian TACOS. Yeah they did Indian tacos which are always hard to pass up whenever we see those just so open faced fry brad heaped with like ground beef and cheese and classic but as an all that and we sat on the back patio here they have a big sprawling back patio after you wind your way through the inside which it's like feels very homey which makes sense and it has so much soul and character and the patio is amazing. It's huge has these little water fountains. There's like cats roaming around literally wildcats and it's beautiful. I mean that's the ambiance. Just don't you know the the cats otherwise you won't be eating your whole Indian taco not. Good knock it now. I don't show that they also. I'm great Margaritas and Green Chili chicken soup tamales. And then we shared a big plotter of Tuxedos just be filled tuxedos which are more willing to fight most of them starving and I'd been hiking a lot that day so I like twenty two does. It's really good. Loved Him and then another. 'cause we basically when we go to Albuquerque. We just eat green chili everything everything. And especially. When you're there like we were for the fiesta which takes place in October annually. And that's like green chilly season. So it's on every menu and every part of town and also just the the air kind of generally smells of Green Chili which is very true and one of my favorite renditions of Green Green Chili. Cookery we found at this pizzeria of all places called more kind of Utah Pizzeria. Greens pharmacy Which is a collection of little bars? Eighth version of Food Hall. It's this like construction. Smattering of what is called tons of different words. Okay shipping container so they have different cafes and bars and restaurants in these things on two different floors. And there's a neopolitan sal pizzeria on the second floor and we went here mostly expecting traditional Italian stuff which was great one that had New Mexico style toppings options one of which was had green. Chili asked right to the tomato sauce and serve it with like Mozzarella Ham. I know they're in love that Hawaiian Pizza. Jesus it's like a new Mexican. Hawaiian style was really really great. And we also had another Green Chili one that had both red and green chilies alongside like corn Italian sausage tomato sauce. Mozzarella oh my gosh. So many great then everything Great about to leave again looking back to that. I'm talking about this over not there but that yeah that was just everything and then. I also wanted to shout out this coffee shop. That I love in Albuquerque called little bear. Coffee didn't have any Green Chili things here. But they still have really good. Like power over coffees and Latina's and seasonal specials like black cherry cappuccinos wonderful cold brew especially in the summer. When it's scorching hot here and then pastries croissants and cookies. But I just love the the VIBE. It's very she can sunny comfy great place to hole up and get some work done in your lifetime. Do have to tell you that I did introduce for out of the six of these to you. Yes you did including little bear coffee did you. Oh I didn't know about I remember. Yeah that's because you you don't want to take ownership of me suggesting these amazing places to you because I've been there before I did. No I think there's just so much albuquerque. That is wonderful and I can't wait to talk about Santa Fe after this short break guys. It's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show and I'm pretty much always sleepy because I wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later I get all my friends together. We get into a room and we radio show. We share our allies. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world. If you possibly can and we looked through the news of the day that you care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music too so wake up with a bunch of my friends. I Ninety eight point seven. W M Z Q in Washington DC or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio APP. Hi I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is Park Land Area and today we're talking about food in New Mexico And we're getting into the wonderful little city of Santa fe which is easily accessible from albuquerque. Only like an hour away. An hour north very doable. Also a train that connects the two cities in. That's stunning easy. Yes so our favorite place in Santa Fe was this dreamy little cocktail bar called allow arena and it's located at El Rey court. This kind of Boutique Hotel or Motel. Kinda looks ago multiple times right. Yeah we went at least twice. It's this fantastic daily little mouse calabar. It looks like something out of a Wes Anderson Movie. Hit it right on the head. Yeah just the Color Palette. Like bite cues like pinks. Greens and like the CACTI. The fact that's in the motel the facts. How people and we were there. And there's very and that night it was just like I mean. That's how magical place that does poetry slams on on a regular basis. It feels like so. I wasn't surprised to see that. And then they have. Obviously very ave focused drinks a limited menu. They changed them pretty regularly. But always delicious. They have things like ranch. Water which is Tequila Chico in the Lime Wedge Real Simple I love it super refreshing and then La Ultima Palabra which has Jennifer machine lacouer Moscow and lime juice. All these are so quenching. There's some inviting potent. Yeah inviting just like in the second night when we came and like people were like just coming up and talking to this conversation like it was so wonderful because it was a community space. It was a It wasn't like a cocktail bar like. No people was hopping around lying on couches. Yeah it was. It had a great feel to it and it felt very Santa Fe. Wish we came to discover it at other restaurants venues like this is how the city is and why. I adore it so much in a very good back. So some other places at we loved Paloma which is a restaurant are not that it's classic but that the name Palomo just makes me think classic and Classy. Yeah it it has a really good job with obviously Palomas but like a whole other range of cocktails like mess. Connor GRONYEA's Mesko hot toddy. Yes please Spicy Passion Margaritas and then like great snacks. They have like salsas really fragrant like smokey salsas. Guacamole a shrimp tostadas. Three J. stuff like that and then they have the whole dining dining many but when we go out and snack But they definitely had some killer menu item Media Andrea items like the space was really modern and art. See it was nighttime mood went so like just flickering candlelight and more cozy vibes. Yeah and we actually went there and then we couldn't be seated right away so we put in our name weightless and they're like you'll be about two hours okay. We background check. So maybe grab some reservations snacks. Because that's yeah. Yeah yes I think. In between we kill time we like wandered around Santa. Fe's very walkable especially the greater downtown area. Like where this is where we were so we wandered from there to another popular cockatiel sparkled Secreto Lounge and that's right in the heart of downtown Santa Fe inside this beautiful Boutique Hotel. The hotel Saint Francis and they're known for what they call garden class cocktails meaning the freshest fruits and herbs and vegetables and stuff like that that they use in their drinks along with all local spirits and bidders and what a gem was really great and they do really interesting things on like a smoke. Said's Margarita Yeah you did. And that's like the I think the best example of what they're doing here because like sage SM- in like local. They probably clipped right outside their window or something. And then they smoke it so it's super aromatic and just billowing. This aroma loved a-. And then the cool thing about this and this drink and Taylor is. It's part of something called the Santa Fe Margarita trail which sounds like a boozy Appalachian trail or something. He'll love it. Sounds like it's right up our alley. Yeah I'd love to hike that trail and that trail consists of forty five different iconic Margaritas at bars throughout town. And they have a website for this the Margarita trail so you can do this journey. I'd like you shouldn't do it in the same night but can we make it until like a passport book. That'd be fantastic. I'd love to get a stamp and everyone to the hours I would. Love would not be able to do forty five and one nine now just just saying not not recommended and other place they go in general but also you could go to drink here is meow. Wolf so came the whole conversation with because it's more than just accept plan. I shouldn't say more than experience. It isn't experience in L. South that it's like you just you you transcend into it. Yeah I mean it's not it's like become it it becomes you. Yeah it feels like it's part haunted house part art museum part escaper all tangled into one neon colored web. It's it's crazy now. Most people are probably asking like what does have to do with food or traveling. We'll tell you when they're done with me owl once you're done like crawling through this weird house maze thing. They have an onsite cafe bar which is called float caffeine bar in. Its right out in the main lobby of meow. Wolf here and great. Great spot to unwind after you're done with Oh Yeah Mike exhibits and stuff because the drinks are really good and really fun and whimsical which makes sense. They have like legit absent. The traditional status trips. Yeah absolutely funny story about that. I was recently talking with about this with a left driver. When we're in Florida and I don't know how this topic came up. We were talking about meow wolf and the bar there and stuff and I mentioned I was like yeah I I did a traditionally absinthe trip there and he misheard me and thought I said acid so he was like oh yeah I could totally see doing out there and I'm like like just yeah right. No I didn't cry like I'll take it. I'll act like a cool kid. Yeah he actually thought it was doing acid no but absent absent different thing they also have adorable named meow go rita of course right now and they even have you. Don't even need help by. Cocktails are liquor here. They have really fun. My coffee based drinks like something help a night wolf which is double espresso dark chocolate and lavender with steamed milk and something they called Purple Shimmer while at and then guess something called Nebulae markets where it's like. They're making up a language here. They are with purple white chocolate cocoa with steamed. Milk topped with marshmallow. Lucky charm mar bits and Unicorn Shimmer. It's like I don't understand what's going on here. But it's beautiful and like absolutely fabulous. Every meal was fabulous including all these drinks like Yoga Rita. I mean love LA Z hair. And by the way I found out that Margaret's is a word for marshmallow BITs. So there's more sons and then beyond just like absent and like Palomas and all that Santa Fe has tons of other deliciousness. Like I went to at least two different days to this bakery called who's doughnuts and that's W. H. O. Like what an hour would say the whole thing and it ll. It's this really modest looking cafe from the outside but you go inside. And you're like blown away by the array of flavors they have here in the the the donors just like so delicious and they are and they come in classic flavors as well as contemporary options and they especially have an impressive. Lineup of local specialties. Local flavors like Blue Corn Blueberry lavender donuts and Green Chili Apple fritters. Yes and blue. Corn Maple pecan. Yes and then Red Chili Bacon toughie. It's yes there's a lot there's a lot of love. Gosh Yeah Too. And like you brought me one of these back I WanNa it was something like the summer peach. Yeah I I think that timeline checks out and they also. That was probably late in their strawberry season. So they have. Strawberry Rhubarb is a popular option for them and then later like in like fall. They have Perr Ginger fritters like all of it. I'm on all of it right like right now. I literally just go. You know what we're going to have to find a way to get back to New Mexico in the next couple. I missed that and reminiscing about. It is not helping when we're not there. No it's not helpful at all and then and other place that I loved was Santa has a great. They have a very robust coffee shop scene. They do much to my delight. They have plenty of those. My favorite was this place called sky coffee and it's in the railyard area of which seems to be a very kind of up and coming in like industrial area hip but like that's where like the Rei was and area. You're obsessed with because you're getting those town mountain bars from. Yeah and only I can only get them in areas. So that's what brought me to that. Area was to stock up on energy bars and then I was like Oh. Here's a coffee shop. That looks really cute. So hot in there and it did not disappoint. It's really sunny bright. It looks like kind of a white cottage definitely place that I would just chill out working main computer for a little while which is exactly what I did and they have like wonderful espresso and Cortott does Chai per over coffee. They've come on tap and then they have lots of coffee cake and muffins and they also supply a limited selection of. Who's doughnuts so in case you can't make debate. They were ownership. Yeah and last but not least has probably one of the better views was that rooftop Cantina For Margarita's yes. I was like are fun. Awesome like bar hopping night in downtown Santa Fe and this is the grid casual option. It's very chill lively vibe. Still kind of silence in artsy but like much more laid back I would say and spacious rooftop we were able to like Mosey right up to the edge. Pretty much and just have like a couple of margaritas probably like guacamole chips. Solid foods solid Margaritas. Like nothing too crazy. Fancy it's about the views but then they do have that like Fancy restaurant inside though they do. Yeah which is just right through the doors and I remember just like sitting sitting there chilling. The Sun was setting and it was the most idyllic experience and a great way to cap off just a wonderful dream evening in Santa Fe. Yeah and I cannot get enough of Santa Fe or Albuquerque or New Mexico like all of this from blue corn donuts to like blue corn lagers at bow and Arrow and Green Chili Pizza. Grizzly Turkey sandwiches. I love it all such a wonderful and you know what's crazy. This is just a taste of New Mexico. Yeah it just tastes so I can't wait to go back and re eat re drink all of us and then just explore everything else. Because it's really unless you've been listening to park land show about National Parks Park Land. As production of iheartradio created by Mac Cara Wack wack and. Christopher has Yoda's produced and edited by Mike John's our executive producer is Christopher. Has He Otis our researcher. It's Jesulin Shield especial thanks GOES OUT TO GABRIELLE COLLINS. Crystal waters and the rest of the Park Lane crew. And Hey listeners. If you're enjoying the show leave us a review on Apple podcasts? It helps other people like you find our show. You can keep up with us on social media as well. Check out our photos from our travels on instagram at park. Alenia pod and join the conversation in our facebook group Parkland Rangers from our podcast. My heart radio visit iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows and as always thank you for listening. Hey put on some Beatles no no the stones how to pot come on. You gotTA play Biggie. Maybe some Katy Perry Taylor Swift. Come on it might be time for another episode of arrivals rivals is a new podcast that explores famous music of the past and present. Join me Steven Hyden. Emmy Jordan run talk we go blow by blow through the best music beefs and then debate. Who deserves the upper hand? Pick aside I may the best band win tune into rivals. Weekly podcast from iheartradio. Listen follow rivals on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Food is that it's never just about the food. Sources the origins and the roots of different food ways are all intrinsically tied to our humanity from iheartradio and Wet Stone magazine comes point of origin. Podcast dedicated to exploring that connection. We traveled the globe to connect with those immersed in different ways from Korea to Norway from Nigeria to the Appalachian Mountains and beyond fine point of origin season. Two on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever? You listen to podcasts.

Albuquerque Santa Fe New Mexico iheartradio Brad Chili Matt Appalachian Mountains Katy Perry Taylor Swift Marian Tito Wolf Palomas Lofton Chicago Whetstone magazine America Norway Nigeria Santa Fe Margarita Apple Green Chilly
In Midst Of An Oil Boom, New Mexico Sets Bold New Climate Goals

Environment: NPR

06:04 min | 2 years ago

In Midst Of An Oil Boom, New Mexico Sets Bold New Climate Goals

"Support for NPR and the following message come from Amelia Island, Florida a barrier island on the northeast coast that captivates visitors with thirteen miles of uncrowded beach championship golf, natural beauty and a historic district Amelia Island dot com slash NPR. President Trump's administration may be doubling down on fossil fuels, but many states are not yesterday lawmakers in an especially sunny state, New Mexico approved a plan for rapid transition to renewable sources like solar and wind the plan is considered even more ambitious than the ambitious plan in California New Mexico may soon use a lot less fossil fuel. Although New Mexico is still producing it NPR's Nathan rot reports. New Mexico has the only round shape state capitol building in the country, which means it's always a bit hard to find a quiet corner. But that's especially true. These days the Blue Wave of last year's midterms swept over the enchantment state with Democrats taking control of the house Senate and governor's office, they've setting ambitious legislative agenda that's bringing supporters and protesters of every type to Santa Fe this day. It's environmental advocates and co workers the latter still in their work uniforms shuffling into a stuffy overcrowded room for a hearing on the energy transition act. A massive piece of legislation that would require the state us one hundred percent carbon free energy by twenty forty five. That means no more coal and number natural gas in just twenty five years. Get started here. Lucky for you. We can skip this hour's long hearing and just go straight to the source. My name is Nathan small in. I represent house district thirty six in New Mexico legislature small is from Las Cruces home to hatch. Green chili and he's one of the sponsors of the energy transition act. We're going to end up with a renewable portfolio standard that is among the leaders or perhaps is the leader for the entire country, which is striking because the state currently gets more than half of its electricity from coal, but that's changing we have the number two potential when it comes to solar resources nationwide. And we're told that it's number twelve when it comes to win. If there was ever a state that can transition to renewables, and then get it on the market. It's off New Mexico governor Michelle Luhan Grisham, and because California's following the same standard they're going to need to look to states like New Mexico to sell them this energy. That's one of the economic reasons at Christian is expected to sign the Bill later this week, but it's far from the only one she gives this is a state that is not in climate denial. We are clear that we have basically a decade to begin to turn things around into Mexico needs and will do its part the energy transition act will cut in-state greenhouse gas emissions dramatically, but New Mexico's role in the global climate picture is a complicated. One. Just look at the southeast corner of the state. We're quiet. Two lane roads have become major thoroughfares with truck after truck after Trump. The cool desert nights are now punctuated with venting flares and the steady Thrum of bobbing. Pump jets. Southeast New Mexico is oil country. It's part of the Permian basin home to the largest continuous oil and gas pool ever assessed in the United States. And folks here will tell you at oilfield supply stores like Robert Higgins, and Wally Leicester's that sure they've seen booms before and busts a disco can go go in there. Nope. Would you say it's crazy would say it is crazy. All of this production has been a windfall for New Mexico. The state is looking at a billion dollar budget surplus, thanks to oil and gas revenues money. It's putting towards the state struggling public schools and other needs. And there's a fear here that the legislation in Santa Fe, which some disparagingly. Call New Mexico's green new deal will hurt that production killing the goose that lays the gold mood. But the truth is it won't the energy transition act will require New Mexico to power itself with renewables, Denise four retired environmental law, professor from the university of New Mexico points out though that nearly all of the oil and gas being pumped in the Permian is exported. We really can't meet the greenhouse climate goals that we have to meet in develop all that oil and gas consuming all that oil and gas. She says would essentially be a climate change game over what a dilemma because it isn't consumption from New Mexico. That's gonna make a difference. It's it's the export market at this time. But the option of stopping oil and gas development, keeping it in the ground for says isn't much of an option at all. At least not now much of the drilling is happening on federal land. And the state is dependent on oil and gas revenues. It's a dilemma Ford says that the entire US could soon face more and more states are committing to renewable energy. Sources but the US is set to soon become the top oil exporter in the world. Thanks in large part to the Permian. The irony of the situation is not lost on New Mexico's governor back at the state capital in this complex moment. We have to demonstrate that renewable energy is available is redundant is reliable. And then that changes the debate about fossil fuel exports. But today, we're not in that position. For now. Grisham says she's going to work with oil and guests to limit greenhouse gas emissions. And hopefully, she says set an example for other states to follow Nathan rot NPR news.

New Mexico Mexico NPR university of New Mexico Santa Fe Amelia Island Michelle Luhan Grisham United States Nathan rot Permian California President Trump Senate Nathan small Permian basin
Bonus: The Murder of Sasha Krause

True Consequences

43:46 min | 4 months ago

Bonus: The Murder of Sasha Krause

"This episode is brought to you by best beans. If you're like me and love solving puzzles, they need to be playing the mobile puzzle game best fiends I love this game so much because it challenges my brain, but it's also a lot of fun and it doesn't stress me out like other puzzle. Games. which I really appreciate is also a great. Way For me to stay connected with my friends and family while remaining socially distant I. also love how I can see when I pass my friends. So I can let them know that I am beating them. I'm very competitive can't get enough of it, and it's the perfect break from the intensity of my true crime research this five star rated mobile puzzle. Game. has over one hundred, million downloads, thousands of fun levels and tons of super cute characters to collect. They've created a whole world right on my phone. It's bright and colorful with great graphics and there's a story all about these cute characters. There are also new in game challenges and events every month. So the game always feels fresh and I'm never. Bored also the best part is you can play all you want you don't even need wi fi or any ban with at all. So join me my friends and family and millions of other Americans who are already playing this fun. Puzzle Game Download Best Means for free on the apple APP store or Google play today that's friends without the our best fiends. Look deeper. This is true. Consequences be true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico in the American. Desert southwest. I am so glad to be here on double with you tonight. Hope you all are doing well in staying safe and healthy. And enjoying some some good time with your family and friends socially distant of course, tonight is. Going to be. Alive episode basically, which is something that I haven't really done. Yet. I'm excited to it's the case that I've wanted to cover for quite a while. But I've been waiting for the right time and I feel like now's the right time to start talking about this case so. This is the case with Sasha Krause, but before we go into that. I. Have a few announcements. So. If you have not started listening to dose begin us yet I highly encourage you to do especially if like paranormal stuff. And if he like to laugh because it is a good mix of completely terrifying and really silly humor at the same time myself and my co Ghost. Alex. Work, really well together, it's been a lot of fun. We only have two more episodes this season, and then there's a little bit of break between that season ending and true consequences coming back on season three, which is going to be November first, there will also be a extra special anniversary episode. because. Up. Tober twenty eighth is the one year anniversary of true consequences. So that's pretty exciting. So yeah. So this can you season will in in two weeks and then true consequences will be back on November first yet Tony Time flies one year came really fast but I'm excited about what season three has in store. Just a couple of reminders if you want to support true consequences, go to Patriot dot. com slash true consequences. You can support as little as I leave a two dollars a month, and every little bit helps to support the show and keep it going I was talking about earlier, but I'm gonNA bring it up again the but less podcasters guild is going to launch in. October in our part of that project, it's pretty exciting. We're going to be reaching out to the community teaching classes. To people who wanNA podcast teaching them how to do it, and we're going to be leveraging our listener ships to offer some local advertisers for local businesses to help support them through these crazy times. And? We're going to build a studio. Actually working on that now at very exciting stuff. We've already had quite a bit of interest from the community people looking to start podcast but not knowing where to start 'em. We're really hoping to provide some kind of positive service to the community of you Mexico and really start to grow this podcasting thing that's happening here this pricing amount of podcasts that are local already, and so if we can keep keep going, that would be really awesome and really fun. I'm excited to be part of IT TO BE CO founding it with my friends at what's up baby podcast. Which incidentally I was just on their show this week. There episode drop today they interviewed me and it was a lot of fun. So today we are discussing. A terrible. In heartbreaking case that had an entire state mice state. Mexico looking for a missing woman from the area Farmington New Mexico. On this case is tragic. His left the local Mennonite community farmington reeling in grief in disbelief. But let's just go ahead and jump in and look at what happened to one minute night woman from New Mexico January of this year. So on the afternoon of February twenty, first twenty twenty. A camper was camping in an area between Crater Volcano National Monument and the key National Monument, which is north of Flagstaff Arizona. The camper found the body of a young woman. She was lying face down in the woods. She was bound with duct tape. Her hands were tied behind her back with duct tape and her underwear we're missing she was dressed in a plain gray dress that was described as homemade. She had a white jacket and a pair of hiking boots on the local coroner in Criminal Investigative Team were dispatched to the scene. The body was sent for an autopsy, which would later show that her cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head as well as a single gunshot wound to the head. It will take some time before the body was identified and there were so many questions to be answered like how did she die? How does she end up in the state? So close to a primitive campsite Who was she? Where was she from? And most importantly who did this who was responsible for this? So for those of you not from New Mexico Farmington is in the four corners area of the state in for corners is the only place in the US where four states border each other we have. New Mexico. Arizona. Utah in Colorado. They're all connected that one spot in Farmington is is really close to that area is actually one of the larger cities in Mexico and the Metro Area Farmington which includes communities like Aztec Bloomfield and FARMINGTON has a population of about one hundred, thirty, thousand people as of two, thousand ten. So a big city for New Mexico, not such a big city for other states. The city Farmington sits at the junction of the San Juan in the animals, rivers, and the major industry in the county is the oil and gas industry the area around Farmington is Arad. With. Large Sandstone Bluff and desert brush as well as some beautiful river valleys it starts to look a little bit more Colorado than other parts of the state. But there's also still like a lot of desert area. So now let's talk about Sasha on January eighteenth twenty, twenty, twenty, seven year old Sasha Krause left her home near Farmington New Mexico at around eight PM. She was headed to her church. which was right down the road from where she lived. She was going to grab some materials that she needed because she was a Sunday school. And she also was a pre K. teacher and she had a pre k class the next day. This was the last time that she was seen alive police were dispatched to the lamp in light publishers at three am on January nineteenth as saucer had officially been reported missing that time in this would start a month long search for her her family and community. Search, parties were formed in the entire area surrounding the church was thoroughly searched by volunteers. Infrastructure ponders they had a ground teens there were helicopters, there were people on horseback. There were so many people looking for her and they just kept expanding further and further away from the church. This was not like her she was not known to wander off. And she was very reliable especially when it came to teaching that was something that she loved to do. So there was no sign of Sasha in a fifty thousand dollar reward was offered for any information that could lead to the return of her. And the reward consisted mostly of donations from the community. So Sasha was born in Nineteen, ninety, two in temple. Texas. Her family joined the Mennonite Church when she was eleven years old. And shortly after that Sasha started working towards becoming a member and she dead dedicated her life to the service of God part of the requirements for the Mennonite. Church to join is you have to do some intense Bible study for several years and you have to make a pretty intense commitment to the church into the ministry in something that she took very seriously. She spent six years teaching Sunday School at Grandview Gospel Fellowship, which is a Mennonite church in grandview Texas. And she moved to Farmington just about eighteen months before she disappeared she was hired at the lamp in light publishers where she worked in the literature ministry she helped with translating a lot of their literature into Spanish because she was fluent in Spanish and she was learning French she was also known to go out of her way to help non-english-speaking parisioners. So she would sit next to them during a service and translate the service for them in real time from English Spanish. I'm so she had a big heart. She cared about people she wanted to help end. She just wanted to do what she thought was right From a religious background, you know from her faith unfortunately on the corner and the police were able to identify the body that they found fairly quickly and indeed it was across his body. Sasha will be the second body of a missing person from Farmington was found deceased in Arizona and specifically in the Coconino county in a year, a similar to Sasha Craig Covenant went missing on July fourth lived in. Farmington and he was found deceased near Hieber Zona on August fifth in the woods there's no connection to that. It's just kind of a weird coincidence that two people from the same said he went missing and both were found dead in the same county in another state I wanNA talk a little bit about the midnight community. There is a small mennonite community in the city Farmington and in fact there. Are Two minute churches located in the area. Mennonites are peaceful loving and forgiving people is part of their belief system to be peaceful in forgiving. So it's built into their religion in. Here's a quote from the US Mennonite Church website. Quote Mennonites are a branch of the Christian church with roots in the radical wing of the sixteenth century, Protestant reformation part of the group known as Anna Baptists because they. rebaptized adult believers. The minute nights took their name from Menno Simons, a Dutch priest who converted to the Anna Baptist Scape and help lead it to prominence in Holland by the mid sixteenth. Century. Modern Day midnights number about two point two million people worldwide with churches in north and South America Africa. Europe Asia midnights are known for their emphasis on issues such as peace justice simplicity community service in mutual aid. Members of the Mennonite. Church share a Mennonite or anti Baptist perspective on matters of faith. It's how we understand our commitment to the following to following the way of Jesus. Christ. And then these are the tenants of the. Following Jesus in daily life believing this possible to follow. Jesus. has lowered above nationalism. Racism or materialism believe that it's possible to follow Jesus as a peacemaker we believe that we can practice the way of Jesus reconciling love in human conflicts in warfare without having the strikeout, defend ourselves, and they believe that they can live a simple life in service of others as a witness to God's love for the world so I just wanted to share that because. I felt like it was really important to understand. Sasha, was very devout in her faith such a peaceful loving soul according to people who her, and also that was part of her faith was to be peaceful and loving and forgiving, and for something like this to happen to her is pretty horrifying when you think about it I to happen to anybody is horrifying but. For somebody WHO's dedicated their lives to helping others who goes out of their way to be selfless. It's just insane and senseless. Fortunately, the police were able to identify a suspect pretty quickly after the found Sasha's body and after they identified her I'm she did have. DNA on her neck male DNA she also ahead DNA, her fingernails, the belong to a man, and of course, they had the bullet that she was shot with that could be tested. So I just wanted to point those things out. This case is really interesting in the way that. They were able to figure out who did this haven't heard a lot. Of cases being solved this way. And I thought that it was really interesting to learn about. So I'm GonNa talk about some of that. But I'M GONNA. Go into. I who this suspect was using digital forensics police were quickly able to narrow down on one particular individual and his name was mark. Beach Gooch was. At Luke Air Force Base outside of Phoenix. He was raised on a dairy farm in a minute community in Texas. So. If you remember Sasha was also raised in a minute community in Texas. There's been some speculation that they grew up together in the same community. He claims that he didn't like the lifestyle of the Mennonites. In fact, his brother described a disdain or grudge that mark had against the faith mark never became a member of the church mostly because it involved that lengthy process I was talking about of intense studying of the Bible Baptism and then committing your life to Jesus mark claims that he felt like he and his family didn't belong to the. Community. Because his family converted to the faith. Unlike others who were in the community that were raised in it. So he felt like an outsider. He left his parents in everybody that he knew when he was old enough and vowed to live like other people. Like everybody else he wanted to be quote normal. In their reports that like I said Mark New Sasha. but I haven't been able to corroborate that. So I don't know if it's true or not these digital forensics they figure out who he is and they go and find him at the Air Force Base in Phoenix. He's being questioned. He's asked if he knew he was there. His response was, oh, the only thing I can think of is maybe I was driving my motorcycle too fast. The detective informs him that she is investigating a homicide. In asks if he is the millier with the case, of Sasha, Krause. He said I seen it on the news. That's a direct quote. He was asked if he went to Farmington on the night that Sasha appeared in he claimed that he had a he had time for a long drive. Also direct quote. So he decided to drive a flagstaff to the Arizona's Noble Noble which is a ski resort. He drove the snowball. And he found that it was closed. So he decided to keep driving in he drove onto Farmington New Mexico he then claimed that he heard of the Mennonite community there in wanted to go to church service because he was missing the fellowship of the community. This is all in his interview recorded and he described a church located near Emesa with the words lamp in light spilled into the hillside. He claims that he didn't check to see when the services were, but instead decided to drive back Phoenix. All. Right. So this is where it gets really interesting. So cellphone records showed. That mark was in the area of the church. For about two hours. And then his phone show that he was in the woods outside of flagstaff. After midnight. So if you remember in the beginning, we talked about the fact that it's obvious body was found. Near campsite in the woods. North of flagstaff. He claims he arrived on base at two. Am however video surveillance shows his car didn't drive onto the base seven am. So that was one of many inconsistencies that made historic suspicious to detectives. Forensic investigators revealed that there was really only one probable connection to Sasha, because of beaches phone, and this is where it's really fascinating and I think it's mostly due to the remote nature of this. His cell phone. Was the only other cell phone communicating with the same towers as Sasha's at the same act time until her phone dropped off. So that's how they found him, that's how they figured out. He was likely the one responsible for this, which is crazy to me. It's crazy that his cell phone in her cell phone were the only a hit towers number one but number two, they were able to quickly identify who he was because of that. The FBI was involved as well because we're talking about interstate travel. So that immediately brings in the FBI through computer forensic the forensics police were able to dig deeper in they uncovered some messages from marks phone and these messages between mark and his brothers. and. They started to show this interesting pattern. That mark had been surveilling. The minute community in Farmington. For quite a while. And here's a small sample of those messages. This is all mark by the way. same for some reason. Even this morning surveillance was boring. A bunch of old people without much to live for. Clearly not the people we grew up with. Sad to say. Another disappointment it's hard to know what exactly he was looking for. But the thing that stood out to me was when he said clearly not the people we grew up with. So it almost sounds like he's trying to find somebody and knowing that there's a potential that him and Sasha knew each other. From before. Seems likely. That she was exactly who he was looking for. As he surveilling this community and it gets worse trust me I think it's much worse in another message that was found from Marx brother Jacob. Jacob. Was a state trooper in Virginia he claimed that he gave a minute a ticket in coughed on the driver. So quote he would spread Corona to the wedding. There were going to L. O.. L., in quote. And the responses from the brothers and the group chat indicated they seem pleased by this even encouraged Jacob to continue this behavior. For example. Mark Texted back. Fuck, yes I hope you treated them like Shit. So there's clearly. Some motive here, right. He's obviously angry at the Mennonite community he ostracized he feels like an outsider and him his brother seemed to have some kind of in data against them. This is only what's been released by police are there hasn't they haven't released all his text messages, but I'm pretty sure that there would probably be more just based on his behavior. The other thing that was shocking to me was learning that he had been surveilling the community for a while like that's. Obviously. He's premeditating this right obviously he's thinking this through. He has some kind of vendetta against these people and I feel like the state has a really good case against him. At this point. So those strange messages are definitely suspicious I mean the questions like why was he watching that community? Did his grudge against the church run deep enough for him to target them with violence, and then like listening to his police interview, he claims he was just casually they're looking for service times right but his brother, his own brother claimed that he had so much anger towards the Mennonite community because he. Felt, they mistreated them and it's interesting that his own family highlighted the anger to detectives even though he really didn't even share any of that information himself that to me says that it must have been pretty extreme. It must have been pretty intense for them to call it out on their own without being asked about it tells me that there was something there. So we have his Cell Phone Ping the same towers ashes. At the same time she goes missing. We have these text messages that show that he's angry at this community that he surveilling them. Now we have his own family admitting that he has this hatred in his heart another interesting fact that was uncovered by detectives. was. A Gooch had his car detailed. The day after Sasha was killed. So I'm just saying like Red Flag City right? Like everything happening here is a red flag it's all stacking up against him. He also called the friend to hide a gun for him was the twenty two caliber rifle. He has to hide his gun not suspicious at all totally suspicious. Then told his friend to call his brother to come pick up the gun. So somehow the police were tipped off about this friend and About the gun situation and this is pretty smart. I, was impressed by this they bought they bought a decoy gun that is almost identical to the one that mark had and replaced it. So they gave the friend, the decoy, they took the actual gun into into evidence and they waited for Sam to show up to pick up the gun and they arrested him for tampering with evidence which I thought was really smart. They did that so he was arrested. This is Sam. He claims that he was never asked to get rid of or destroy the weapon. Okay. But why did you fly to New Mexico to pick it up then what are you gonNA come pick it up and and. Then what's going to happen after that? Why couldn't somebody else get it? It was in Arizona already, it just seems weird. Then the police started questioning mark about his involvement with ashes disappearance they asked him if he was asked him. If he was responsible for Sasha Krause's death in his response was no man and then when he was asked if he abducted her, he also responded. Noman. So he lied about the time that he went to base. He said two am video surveillance shows him there seven am he tried to hide a gun in have his brother, pick it up he detailed his car the next day just like leaving clues everywhere. It's crazy forensics came back in proved that the gun that mark owned was in fact, the gun that fired the bullet that contributed to the death of Sasha. Krause, the bullet was recovered and was inspected by a firearms expert the prove that that. Was the same gun another thing is the lamp in light compound had lots of video surveillance in the night. That's all show went missing. March. Vehicle can be seen in that video surveillance at the compound where she disappeared from. So Lot of evidence uncovered here it became very clear that mark was the main suspect in this case, and it's really important to note that he is considered innocent until he's proven guilty the quarter law but having said that it really seems like this evidence is stacking against him. And it's very compelling. It doesn't look good for him at all from the outside looking in. And with all the evidence that they had, the police decided to submit the case to the state prosecutor or the county prosecutor. For charges, it almost feels to me like he made a rash decision to abductor I. Don't feel like he thought that out all the way and I'm not even sure that he misses my opinion it's all speculation but I'm not sure that he even intended to kill anybody but it just seems like he kind of lost it to me because he was so careless about everything like everything was careless but I also know that he expected. Them to use that level digital. Forensics to catch him. But it doesn't seem like he thought this through. Like like you're saying Jackie it seems like he just made a snap decision he panicked and just got really careless. So He is innocent until proven guilty, but it looks awfully suspicious. It looks like he definitely could be responsible for this. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in court he's arrested and the prosecutor charges him. We've got a four counts here count one first degree murder Mark Daniel Gooch honor between January eighteen, twenty, twenty in. January. Nineteen twenty, twenty intending or knowing that his conduct will cause death with premeditation did cause the death of Sasha Marie Krause in? Violation of all these codes and laws or in the alternative mark. Daniel Gooch honor between January eighteen twenty twenty in January nineteen twenty, twenty acting either alone or with one or more persons committed or attempted to commit kidnapping or in in the course of an in furtherance of such a fence or immediate flight from such a fence. Mark Daniel Gooch or another person did cause the death Sasha Murray crowds. In violation of and there's a bunch of laws that are quoted there. I think that the police at some point thought maybe that Sam was involved in this or maybe somebody else was involved in this but they haven't been able to prove that yet count three kidnapping on or about February twenty first knowingly did restraints krause with the intent to inflict death physical injury or a sexual offense on her or to otherwise aid in the Commission of a felony. And then again, a bunch laws that are listed and finally count four. Mark Daniel Gooch on or about February twenty first without lawful authority knowingly did control Sasha Marie crosses headcovering end her underwear, a value of less than two thousand dollars with the intent to deprive of such property in violation of. All these things, which is a class one misdemeanor that was living I forgot to mention He stole her her head covering, which is something that is pretty important to the women. It was obviously a statement that he was making. By stealing there as well as her underwear. It's terrible statement to make it I. Think it speaks to his disdain for the midnight faith it's speech to his State of mind. and. The motivation of him doing this. It's horrible Tony I agree with you. Yes. She she seemed to live her life in love and didn't deserve this tappan to her in the name of Hate I. Agree with you. There's no indication on where the head covering was found or at least they haven't released that information yet. But they did say that they knew he took it I'm sure more of that information will be released. All right. I followed this case really closely I was kind of sort of on the fringes involved in it by passing out flyers and things trying to find her was some question. After mark was arrested. To exactly who would be pressing charges do you know if it's GonNa, be the state of Arizona or will it be federal or will it be even? Could it be? The. Military. I don't know that they've. Identified that I know that his last hearing was was conducted by the State of Arizona against him and I think that that's where it's going to remain because there was some conversation about Arizona taking because they had the death penalty. In New Mexico and I was I was also thinking that. The. Military would definitely push for the death penalty and so with the feds. So you know anyway he go. Just kind of in a big. Big Role to her yeah well I don't Wanna get ahead of myself here but have some information about the death penalty in about about what's happening with his case in regards to that. But I can tell you that the most recent hearing was the state of Arizona. Marquette Yeah I was just curious scrap soon. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens and who knows. Maybe there still could be. Some you know action on on behalf of the military against him because I know things are different when it comes to being in the military in committing crimes. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Do you think he did it? I. Think it was kind of it was still kinda passionate piece out of practice murderer. So right you know yeah, I think so too I mean it it seems like It'll be really hard for him to get out of this just based on everything that's been laid out. And I'm surprised by how much information has been released by by police in by prosecutors because usually with a case like this, they hold a lot Costa, their best but they seem to be just like out in the open about almost all of it I'm sure they're holding some stuff back but I was really. Surprised at how much information is. Adam dead the right. So there's not. Really, there's no point in holding a lot. In all the. Rats Klatt red handed in on his just thing. Yeah. His his lawyers seem to think that he has a strong defense so it'll be interesting to see what they pull out. When the trial because Maybe they're just talking big but in the arraignment hearing, they got pretty pretty high and mighty in pretty. Had some pretty strong responses so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out Alex says my brothers on the in the Air Force I'm going to ask him if he knows what the military will do in response. He's probably sleeping right now. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Let me know You can probably find me on twitter or facebook or something and let me know I'd be interested to know about that. All right. So let me get into the current status of the case and then we'll go into some cuny maybe injections GonNa meet you for a second. Because you'll have a little bit of background noise I'm yourself whenever I'm going. To I'm upon if I have much. Okay. Cool. His offense will be interesting I wonder if it's some kind of mental illness or temporary insanity since he lost it, that could be where they're going Yeah. I bet you. You're right killing I could see them going for a insanity plea just because of his intense anger towards the midnight faith that'd be that'd be probably the way that they need to go because the evidence is so strong against him at a hearing in May. Gooch pled not guilty nobody surprised to the charges that were brought against him in court. His attorney argued that he was not a threat to society and that he should be released on bail in the state did not have enough evidence to hold him. However. The judge disagreed and denied the bail request it'd be interesting to know if there were 'cause he did say he was mistreated mistreated by the Mennonites it'd be interesting nobody but like honestly probably not premeditated sounds like it was more impulsive could be yeah it's hard to know his defense argued that it was a first a first defense that he had in the he really didn't have a record and so they should consider that the judge said. nope Nobel sorry. And because this was a first degree offense in Arizona, the case would qualify for the death penalty if the state wanted to pursue the death penalty. They only had sixty days to submit that to the court. This is why the judge said he was ineligible for bail was because the prospect of the death penalty was on the table and if he did get the death penalty. Then, he wouldn't be eligible for bill basically in Arizona just recently. The Sixty Day period passed. In the state did not pursue the death penalty, which now makes him eligible for bail and the judge ruled that he would have a two million dollar cash only bail and this is what the judge said during that trial quote the court does not believe that if the defendant is released or sorry, the court does believe that if the defendant is released the he poses a risk to other members of the community. In fact. If he in fact, committed this offense. In quote. The prosecutor argued. The victims in this case, do not want defendant released for obvious reasons. He said he killed their daughter and they expressed that they would only feel safe if he remains in jail, which is like. Yeah. He obviously has some hatred towards. Mennonites. He obviously is capable of violence. what's to stop him from going back to Farmington and killing her family in killing her friends and killing other people in the community. The defense attorney argued that all of those fears could be quelled by creating some conditions of release that were prevented him from interacting. With that community or from leaving the state or from leaving the county I'm pretty sure that there are people who violate those conditions of release all the time. Right you can't expect them to just maybe she has an ankle monitor. Okay. But we have people in New Mexico, the violate their conditions of released all the time. So I I don't know I do know that two million dollars bail I mean okay. That's a significant amount. He probably doesn't have it I don't know it'll be interesting to see what happens. So he is he does have bail e could be released they have to have another hearing. September twenty eighth are going to have another hearing to review conditions of release. If he can make bail I don't know what the Arizona laws are so. Hopeful that there will be justice for the sweet young woman who suffered needlessly. and was taken from this world so brutally. She deserves justice her family in her community, and I just pray that she rest in peace. it's such a horrible. Awful case and He's already not eligible for the death penalty. So I think at this point, we're looking at probably life in prison. Means in Arizona. In New Mexico. It's only thirty years annually under serve eighty percent of that. So I am grateful because it does seem like Arizona does have more strict laws less a defendant defendant friendly laws. The new. Mexico's. So hopefully, there will be some level justice in I'm really he doesn't get out and hoping that he he's not allowed to. To come out in PAS more pain for people because. He seems to me like he is a threat to at least that community. It's just a it's just a sad case. It's terrible. So. That's it. That's the terrible story of. The disappearance and the Death Sasha Krause. Like I said I. Hope she rest in peace in her family can get some justice anybody hop on in chat with me for the last twelve minutes or have any of course Jackie. I've wanted to cover this for a long time. it's a it's such a sad case. I feel so bad for for her in her family. and. I remember when she was missing it was really. Really shocking I think. In. A, lot of news coverage talk about how the Finding, the body was very shocking for the flagstaff area because they're not used to that kind of crime happening they feel it's a bunch of retirees and they feel like they're generally pretty safe. So was a shock. So killing I will be releasing this on the podcast as a bonus episode I don't know that. I will cover it unless there is more. Information that comes out. So maybe I'll do. An episode on it. But I just I don't know that can do another full episode immune if there's if there's more information, maybe it can. Yeah she deserves just as family deserves justice I'll definitely be following the trial. So if you guys are following the trial as well. Can you find out some stuff send it to me of course, Tanya. I always try to take a compassionate Lens I hope I did her case justice hope that our family wouldn't be upset about me covering it. Because I know it's touchy in a lot of pain there. So I wanted to do right. He's not allowed to comment on the case the air force likely prosecute if the outcome isn't what they think is just. Alex I was thinking that the family may have intervened stop the Death Penalty Jackie in a what I think. You could be right about that because knowing the faith in knowing that they're so forgiving and peaceful that would make a lot of sense that would make a lot of sense Alex. so I was wondering if I know that people who are in the service, they don't have the same rights. As. Civilians. I'm wondering if there's a possibility that double jeopardy wouldn't apply when it comes to somebody who is in the service. So it will be interesting to see if they do take on the case and in Gopher something more severe. So my guess is they'll be watching to see what Arizona does. I must say I will put my brother's like. Duffy sketchy phones. Telling you any of these things even if he like manslaughter or something and they give him like five, you know five years, three years whatever. They'll more though court martial for something else because he's broken a lot of air force regulations stocking is one of them Yeah. So he said that. Almost certainly, they will bring him up on something if if it when you don't even if it's after his he's But if it's something, you know if they don't find for something that the the force thinks is appropriate the more than likely continue so Punishments could be a much more severe than what would happen to civilian. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. I don't think he's GonNa get acquitted either Jackie. I don't see that happening. There's so much evidence against him that we know about like it makes me think there has to be so much more that we don't know about because they have to be holding some of that back. I can't imagine them not holding some of that back up for trial. It just doesn't make any sense of that would happen I, don't know when the trial begins. My guess is probably GONNA be next year if they're just doing the bail hearing in the release hearing on the end of September, they're not going to go into the holidays I. also think that his attorneys are doing a lot of delay tactics because they keep asking for continuances on hearings to delay them. So they're probably trying to come up with some kind of defense they can. Use in that's why they're buying more time. There has to be more they're holding back. Kaylin. I agree on. I've never known a criminal trial like this to release all their evidence to public information absolutely Jackie. I'll let you know if I hear in fact, I'll probably be sharing stuff on on my social media as is I find out. Thank you everybody for listening tonight I appreciate all of you. I'm excited to be recording season three of two consequences. I'm ready to be back in in that mode have had a nice little fund vacation. With those begins in been enjoying that enjoying the lightheartedness of it but I am ready to get back into sharing some more of these stories and giving people voices here in New Mexico again, if you know anybody who is seeking justice in new, Mexico and they wanNA share their story pleased in the my way I am looking for interviews still for season three I've been pretty unsuccessful I. Think Coronaviruses is holding people back from doing that on but hand doing virtual interviews so. There is some corona safe interviews happening if anybody wants to do it. They do have to be New Mexico and they do the crime needs to be in New Mexico because that's what shows about. But again, if you know anybody please please think all listeners. Thank all of my supporters here on get vocal in social media and let you guys know that I appreciate you so much high you make this. So. To do and I couldn't do it without you. So with that, I'm going to say stay safe Mexico and socially distance or We've got some work to do on that and also care everybody. Good night. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to two consequences. Follow us on social media. On instagram and facebook at true consequences pod and on twitter. True Cons pod. True consequences is hosted, written and produced by me. Your host, Eric Carter Line Dean thanks for listening and stay safe new. Mexico

Arizona New Mexico Sasha Sasha Marie Krause Farmington Mark Daniel Gooch Mexico mark Alex I Jackie prosecutor Farmington flagstaff attorney Texas Sam New Mexico Farmington twitter apple
Richard Allington, Eastern New Mexico University  Spiritual Crusading

The Academic Minute

02:30 min | 4 months ago

Richard Allington, Eastern New Mexico University Spiritual Crusading

"Supporting the Crusades didn't just happen on the front lines. I'm Dr, Lynn Pascarella, President of the Association of American colleges and universities and today on the Academic Minute Richard Arlington Assistant Professor of history at Eastern New Mexico University explores how ordinary people helped in their own ways. The Crusades impacted medieval European culture through a practice which Eichel spirituel crusading beginning in eleven eighty seven various popes attempted to expand the crusading movement buying courage and Christians to carry out specific technical writes the would provide spiritual support for the Crusades. These devotions provided away for all Christians to participate in the crusading movement even if they will not warriors, they could help liberate. Jerusalem through their press the papacy in the church hierarchy understood that can send the Crusades in the Holy Land was widespread among Christians and that encouraging the clergy and laity pray for the Crusades off a powerful incentive for Christians to more actively participate in the liturgical life of the church. This practice therefore became a powerful and effective vehicle for church reform in Medieval Society. I I examined medieval liturgical manuscripts from different communities to understand the local implementation of this program Medieval Christians did not just passively adopt devotion prescribed by the papacy, but adapted them to suit their own immediate consents extending the crusading mindset to local pies, intentions, and political rivalries. Spirit crusading affable both changed liturgical practices through paypal prescription and simultaneously provided local communities with the agency to shape the liturgy of the church to address that particular concerns. The other aspect of my research explores how spiritual crusading transformed diva devotional observance by serving as a vehicle to encourage widespread piety. This spiritual campaign code defied abroad program of Christian renewal infusing emerging spiritual movements such as the Franciscans and the flatulence with the rhetoric Crusades my scholarship for reveals how the practice of spiritual crusading expanded the crusading movement to Incorporate Ole Christians and also reshaped medieval devotional practice through the dissemination of the crusading mindset to new areas of this society that was Richard Arlington from eastern New Mexico University. You can find this other segments and more information about the professors at academic. Minute Dot Org. Production support for the academic minute comes from a and you advancing liberal learning and research for the public. Good.

Crusades Medieval Society Richard Arlington Assistant Pr Eastern New Mexico University Lynn Pascarella Association of American colleg Jerusalem President Richard Arlington Eichel New Mexico University
New Mexico Prison Breaks

True Consequences

54:45 min | 8 months ago

New Mexico Prison Breaks

"I JUST WANNA. Make a statement about everything that's happening right now. I want everyone to know that true consequences has always stood for justice. And we'll continue to stand for justice. The forces that tried to divide our country. And the world. Will Not Prevail. I believe that love. And unity will prevail. I am calling for justice for all victims of murder. What happened George? Floyd was inexcusable. What happened to Brianna is inexcusable. We all. Have to do better. Hi Guys Keira from odor and more hair I am the surly host Vu K. based true crime podcast. Where each Sunday I tell you about murder disappearance serial killer. Magic and Is Available to listen to wherever you get your podcasts. including. Platforms such as Apple podcasts, spotify kost books and stitch up. You can find us on twitter. An Tumbler at mad and more instagram at mad and more part and don't facebook APP matter a more podcast. Headway to magic podcast wide press dot com to find out more. Look deeper. This is true consequences. He true crime and mystery podcast. The stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest. This podcast is sponsored by hero cosmetics, good hero, cosmetic, dot, com, and use code true fifteen to get fifteen percents off your order. Just a couple of quick announcements I'm happy to announce that you consequences now part of the Oracle Network. Check out all the amazing shows on the network by going to. The Oracle Network Dot, com, that's the. Oracle. R. A. C. L. THREE NETWORK DOT COM. I'm doing weekly livestream on. GET VOCAL DOT COM, every Thursday night at eight mountain ten eastern. I will be discussing episodes doing QNA's and I will even have some special guests on coming out with me on. Get vocal. Own Did you know that I have true consequences merch? Get Your light on shirt or your true consequences hoodie today you can find links to my merch. At true consequences. Dot Com. If you buy any justice for Jacob item, half of the proceeds go to the New Mexico. Coalition against domestic violence. And finally I'm launching a new podcast that will start the end of the current season of true consequences. The show is all about the paranormal in New Mexico and the surrounding areas I will be joined by my co host Alex and the show is called Dose Spooky News Finance on instagram twitter and facebook. Searching For D. O. S.. S. P. O.'S K. Q. U. E. N. S.. If you enjoy listening to this show, please rate subscribe and review on your favorite podcast. Her true consequences is listener supported to support this show. Go to patriotdepot dot com slash true consequences. You'll get access to episodes early. You'll have ad free episodes as well as other fun perks. You'll even get a free sticker from me to keep up with all my updates. You can follow me on facebook and instagram chew consequences pod on twitter at true cons pod. Today! I am joined by Lydia Wilbert once again, and we are talking about prison breaks in New Mexico. No not the show on Fox. Actual prison breaks that happened here in Mexico. I thought it would be interesting idea to explore what happens when people break out of prison here and as you can imagine. There's a lot to tell related to prison breaks in New Mexico. I won't keep. You waiting. I'm Eric Harder. Line Dean and this is true consequences. Hi Lydia, hello. Eric welcome back to true consequences. Thank you for having me back. despite all the letters of protests that you received, those were asking that I never return. Those were all from me. Just kept spamming your email. So I saw this story and I thought this would be a good topic for today. It's a prison breaks. And there's quite a few prison breaks that happened in Mexico in the past so. I have a very long story I know yours is a little bit shorter, but. Yours is more entertaining than my mind. A little bit of a Bummer, which is which is like my style, basically yeah, I'm really good at bumming things out, but not to be confused with the show prison break. No those hot brothers not to be confused with that I never watched that me either, but the pictures look Nice. So Anything that you WANNA talk about anything that you want to share before we jump in now. So glad you're here. Good. This is gonNA. Be Fun, okay so Lydia. Do you remember when we covered the prison riot of nineteen eighty? Oh I! Do Recall I recall because you traumatize the shit out of me for several weeks. I'm sorry although I have heard that a lot of people feel their favorite episode. Oh who says that me? My ghost accounts on twitter. So. We're going to start there. We're going to pick up where we left off, so the prison happened, and after that there were a bunch of major changes that were made to the New Mexico prison system as you can imagine, but would you be surprised to know that? The success of those changes were pretty mixed. I am not surprised given. That's kind of the New Mexico way even though there was this like concrete recommendation like a huge pamphlet, basically given to the state on what to improve after the riot I'm not surprised that maybe psalm were very few of those recommendations were utilized. Yeah, so I found this albuquerque. Journal three part series talks about the aftermath of the riot, and I don't know if you knew this, but after the riot, many of the prisoners were sent to other states. To other facilities to house them until things were cleaned and fixed and everything i. mean the entire prison was like one one wing in particular was completely. Burned out. There I mean not to mention that. They had to clean up everything and. The crime scene. Yeah, everything was a crime scene so because of the cost of keeping those prisoners in other states. because. That was skyrocketing. State legislators started. To bring them back to the state penitentiary only six months after the riots. That's interesting, so it was extremely expensive for New Mexico to have other states house are inmates. That's interesting. I mean you wouldn't think that other states would is do us a solid in like. Give art prisoners in state tuition basically. Yeah I don't know how it works, but I think the other part of the cost was the cost of fixing the prison, so there's with those were also putting pressure on the legislators. Legislators were like. Let's just get some duct tape and figure just put him back in there. They'll be fine superglue. Don't worry about it. My cousin will fix it. He told me after you give them. A twelve pack knows a guy. Just give them a twelve pack I'll be fine. So this happened. Even though the prison really wasn't ready to be reopened I mean six months isn't a long time. So as you can imagine this more problems and more challenges for the inmates in the state, and I'm sure it did nothing to fix the morale issue or any of the issues that actually started the right in the first place, so we have a really long history of kind of cutting corners in the state. Yeah, yeah, so over the years between the story until you and the prison riot there were at least six killings of inmates and guards in the months following their return to the state penitentiary. Moses, yeah, and many of the killings were related to the riot, as inmates were fearful that they would be snitched on for killing their fellow inmates, so they did the only logical thing they could think of. Kill people to stop them from testifying against. That I mean, it makes sense because there were prosecutions that we're going to follow the riot, so they're like. I know what I'll do. I'll just start killing people totally rational. The pattern of death and violence continued for years following the riot, and there was a ton of fear in the prisons that in New Mexico. The tensions boil over again and this carried over into the late eighties, while the state did not have another riot like the one in nineteen eighty, the tensions and the fear continued to fester so now let's fast forward to Nineteen eighty-six. My friend. Governor, Tony Tonia. That's Tony with a e and why Tony Tony Tony. He decided he was going to commute. The death sentence a five convicted murderers who were on death row. The former governor was quoted as saying my personal beliefs do not allow me to permit the execution of an individual in the name of the state for me to simply walk away now we'll make me as much an accomplice as others who would participate in the execution. He did this just weeks before his hand off of the governorship to Gary Carruthers. And this would lead to one of the worst prison breaks in Mexico, so he's commuting the death sentences of these inmates before he leaves because he has moral objections to the death penalty, which makes sense. But that particular, those commute that commuting of those senses. What's potentially leading up to this prison? Break Interesting? Okay, yeah, I can't wait to hear more. Tell me more me more. Did they break? Going to sing anymore L. sorry. Okay, so let's jump right in. This is like a fucking movie by the way. On Independence Day One, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, seven, America. Freedom Freedom to convicted murderers plotted an escape and let a total of five other inmates through an escape scheme. These two murderers were William Wayne Gilbert. Good, old fashioned three three namer and James Neal Kim. Slow now. They three namer. They also convinced Robert. Earl Davis who was a former COP, and he was in prison for Burglary David Guy goes who committed ten ten armed robberies as well as Michael Schmidt. Micro Mero, Hector Herman Torres and they all totally got along with the former COP. I mean I. Guess so I mean he was one of them. He was robbing everybody. Class. This was one of the worst prison breaks in this day, and maybe even the country at the time. But before we get into that I wanna just take a look at a couple of the two main characters here, William, Wayne Gilbert and James Kenzo so William was convicted of murdering his wife and. Five people, and he was also convicted of sexual assault sounds like a winner. He was one of the people that death. Sentence was commuted. By tonia. I'm so torn about that right like if I was a family member, a loved one of anyone who was victims I may feel differently, but people have moral objections to the death penalty I I can't. can't judge them for that. But it makes me. Wonder I mean I don't know when his death was scheduled for, but it makes me wonder if this could have been prevented if that wouldn't have happened. I mean that's like a Pandora's box. ANALOGY LADDER FLY AFFECT YEAH! Kill the killer. To prevent more killing. He was assigned as janitor to the North Unit of the State Penitentiary, which was considered supermax or level six, and it housed the worst criminals and. Prior to the repeal of the Death Penalty New Mexico housed all of the inmates on death row. So you would expect to find rapists, murderers and other violent offenders in this part of the state penitentiary something that I wanted to bring up was. Can we just talk about his name William Wayne? Gilbert's three first. It's not just like three names. It's three first names. He does things to with excess like he doesn't. He doesn't know when to hold back. He was quoted as saying about the commutation. Is that the word Kami commutation of his death sentence that it was like being a kid at Christmas. Yeah. That's creepy and gross. Yeah and I'm getting flashes of I'm Dick in the book. I was getting flashes of home alone. Oh, the wet bandits! Leszek! So. Let's talk about Gilbert. He was imprisoned for murdering six people including his wife and I'm just GONNA. Read you a little excerpt from his appeal. From his appeal documents from the court hearing, you'll make God please don't tell me. He said she had come in not quite so this. This is him appealing. His convictions. Defendant was arrested on January nineteenth, nineteen, eighty at about four thirty a M. Following an incident in which shots were fired at the American sandwich shop and four hills in Albuquerque, defendant was advised of his rights under Miranda versus Arizona upon arrest, he was charged with aggravated battery and booked at about seven thirty am in in Albuquerque in the meantime, homicide detective ness and Chesler had been informed by had been informed of the defendant's arrest by eight thirty am. He had contacted a bondsman and was seeking to set bond at ten thousand on the aggravated battery charge. The bondsman arrived at the jail at nine thirty am, but was informed by tension officials at about ten thirty am that more charges had come up at the defendant could not be released. The police had information that the defendant had been in the home of Ken and Noel Johnson on the night that they were martyred. Nessin. Chesler took defendant to the police station at ten thirty am, and they again read his rights to him. The defendant said he understood them. Nessun jazz later questioned the defendant, and when the matter regarding the murder of Kenan Noel Johnson came up. The defendant realize he was being questioned about murders. He asked to see a lawyer. The defendant contacted attorney who advised the defendant to say nothing to the police. In the meantime, the attorney consented to police, taking fingerprints, samples and a photograph of the defendant Nessin Jasper did not asking for the questions at this time, and while the defendants fingernails. Fingernails samples were taken Detective Ramirez who perform crime scene work in the Johnson homicides discussed the Johnson crime scene with defendant in the meantime, Nessin gesture listened to the body of Carol Gilbert. His wife was found in Gilbert's home in Las Tunas upon seeing the defendant again s informed defendant police our of Carol's death, saying that the ball game is up and that sooner or later, the defendant would have to do something so this was like a murder spree. Yeah, well okay, and then like was talked off by going to a sandwich shop in four hills and start shooting randomly everywhere. I was going to make a joke about like. Miss toppings, but did said no pickles. There I did it for you. This is horrible. We're not laughing at the murders by the way. Okay, it is normal psychologically to make jokes after absorbing uncomfortable information. Okay, it's a survival technique. We're just we're just traumatized. That's some of the people with like the darkest sense of humor our ER doctors. Or attorneys or cops, anybody that has a dark sense of humor. I wouldn't be surprised if they see a lot of crazy stuff the today. Okay, so the defendant us that he would like to be left alone for an hour and that, if ness returning our, he would talk to him. The defendant's request was granted and s return forty five minutes to an later at about two thirty, pm. Is he like in a holding areas in an interview room? Okay, burner charges have been filed against him at about one thirty PM. Now he was taken to an interview room so I guess he was at a holding place holding cells during that hour. I don't know probably thinking about things thinking about his life choices are not or not. Maybe he was just like staring blankly at the wall for an hour straight masturbating. The, would you say that? because. He sounds like a complete psycho. Cheeses sounds like something very. PSYCHOTIC person to do. I mean I think staring at the wall would also be something psychotic person who? Contemplative of my suggestion I think is more indicative of what if I said he was staring without blinking for an hour. Oh. Yeah, like the girl in the ring. So the possible, he was being naughty. To Track Record I'll take your word for it. Okay? Why specifically like our was he waiting for call? It's just so interesting is leave me alone for. Come back and talk to me it's. So weird yeah so. He was taken to the interview room where he stated that he should call his attorney. Ness informed the defendant that he could use the phone, but the defendant responded that his attorney would advise him to say nothing. Defendant did not call his attorney, and then proceeded to confess to two murderers of which the police were not aware. Oh, no, to more people had no idea, right. Yes to more people that they didn't even know were murdered. He's like Oh. Let me just tell you about these two other people I fucking killed and he was taking the police station police station. He stated again that he should call attorney and against his attorney would tell him to say nothing. Even though he already confessed to murder, they didn't know about as before ness offered the phone to the defendant, but the defendant did not call his attorney, and during the remainder of the afternoon he confessed to killing his wife. The johnsons Barbara mcmullen and two other people, one male and one female. His murders were unknown to the police of the time. That was he just like thinking out loud like. It sounds so bizarre. This confession I think he maybe thought that they already knew about all okay, so then he was like boy might as well just talk about it. You know so that evening. The defendant directed the police to the body of Barbara Mullen and quote, so he murdered six people, and he confessed he also also sexually assaulted one of the victims before he killed her. And this resulted in him receiving the death penalty upon his conviction. And he appealed the verdict and lost that appeal in the New Mexico Supreme Court, which is what led him to being in the supermax meaning of the New Mexico state penitentiary. As much information on James. Kuenz low also known as Jimmy Cans Low. But when he was twenty seven years old, he was sentenced. I think it was in nineteen, seventy nine. He was sentenced when he was twenty seven to three consecutive life sentences because when he was eighteen he. Sexually assaulted and murdered a woman in Chaparral New Mexico and her two daughters, who were a in six. Oh my, he confessed. He was the prosecution's Key witness against his Co conspirator, so those another guy. They broke into the house to burglarize it. And then he murdered and raped them. The witness testified. That Kim's load claimed to kill others in have killed others in Oklahoma. And apparently he had escaped from the Wyoming State Prison prior to his arrest in new. Mexico So he was already an escaped convict on the evening of July, Fourth Nineteen eighty-seven. Gilbert was mopping the common area of the Cell Block. When he had the opportunity, he pulled a gun on a guard and demanded to be. Let into the control room so basically like the riot all over again. Nobody knows where he got the gun. Right knows how he got the gun it just he just had it and. It was a real gun or it wasn't like fashion was a real gun. They actually he actually shot one of the guards. He didn't die he just. He was injured, but. While he did that Kim slow, and another guy goes went into the control room and opened up three cells and let out for more inmates so. After. They left. They took off running. They went to the roof and they jumped from the roof over the fence. There's reports that they've pulled vaulted, but there's I haven't been able to confirm that. There's an episode of the FBI files a talks about them. Just jumping off the roof, the fence and this is the best part due to budget cuts. There was no guard in the tower. And also the sensors that detect motion on the roof. We're not functioning at the time because I guess they were still dealing with stuff i. don't know I mean that's very similar again to the the riot where lights weren't functioning. Work orders had been placed and just never fulfilled. They never brought. Jimmy has twelve pack. That's probably what happened. Once. The prison became aware of the escape They call the state police and then this is when she gets crazy. So the searches were super extensive There were police officers on ATV's horseback canine units. They even had a helicopter with infrared scanner They blocked off every single road at a Santa Fe. They did searches. Anywhere, they could think of that. An inmate might be hiding. And the canines picked up a scent from the prisoners and lead them lead the police officers to interstate, twenty five, and then the sent just vanished. Shoot to kill order for all escapees issued by the governor. and. The state police began to research. The inmates behavior prior to the escape, so they were looking at phone. call recordings visitor logs, inmate movement all that stuff that was being tracked to see if they could figure out what happened. The FBI state police and local authorities were all tasked with helping find the escapees, and the airport was put on high alert for potential security issue as there. There was fear that the escapees might try to get on a plane and flee the state, so the police turned in the media to ask for help and two days later a man in Santa. Fe reported that someone broke into his house. The police came. They noticed a prison jumpsuit was just like thrown in the house, and they realized that maybe some escapees might still be in Sanofi. And then shortly after that same day, a security officer at the Santa Fe downs, which is a horse racing track encountered another escapee. He was wearing his jumpsuit still he was just like walking around at at the downs like whatever color? and. Hector Taurus he was arrested in return to prison. The SWAT team showed up at the race track to see. Perhaps the other escapees were there with him, and they weren't. There was nobody else there so well. Authorities question tourists. He claimed he had no idea about the plan to escape the prison and was only aware of what was happening when his cell was open. He also said the Gilbert Davis Kenzo and Guy Egos. All stuck together, and the other three were separated from the group. It later seemed that the four release the other inmates to create a distraction. Yeah I mean that makes sense for you know. Torres being at the the Horse Races I mean me. He didn't really seem like. He wanted to run away and he went to a very populated place in history. So it makes sense that he wasn't really involved and he was just waiting. Dig It car here like he wasn't prepared at all to be the run. Yeah, so it made the police really start to spread out because. I think that was like the genius idea of those three main escapees. was that like if they could focus the police attention on a bunch of other places, the chance of them getting caught would be pretty low. So July seventh three days later just outside of Santa Fe a young woman was babysitting her cousin when she noticed a man outside of the house, acting suspicious. So. She hit her cousin under a bed and to call the cops. As she was on the phone. The man broke into the house held her at knifepoint. And then realize that she was on the phone with the cops grabbed loaf of bread and ran out the door. Thank God. That's all he did. Oh my God! How horrifying I isn't that like the most New Mexico thing you've ever. An escape prisoner breaks in house steals a loaf of bread and leaves. For, it would probably me to be like a of Tortillas for me to be like, that's totally. Okay well, we'll see. You can't make that up. It's just insane. So when she was shown photos of the escapee, she identified David. Guy Says the man who broke into her home. And every home in that neighborhood was searched by Swat and they didn't find him the next day. A state police officer eighty-five miles South Santa. Fe sees a suspicious truck and notices a person lying in the better bet it was Robert Davis the former COP. He told investigators about the entire plan and how was developed? He has claimed that the trio would be in a storage facility owned by a family member. Guy Goes. Davis, claimed that a family member. David Guy goes was helping to keep Kim. Slow Gilbert and guy goes in hiding. The plan was to hide them in a storage facility in Santa Fe until the roads opened up, so they could escape, so then the police went to. Any storage facility in Santa Fe could find. They went through all the records. They couldn't find any connection today. Guy Goes so they just kind of left it alone, and since it couldn't connect, they really couldn't search any of these storage facilities, and especially given the time the given the timeframe how hard it would be search these records and time consuming. Take our technology for granted these days when it comes to investigations, sure that they had to look through actual files it'd be like. Let's see anything. Absolutely easy. Never mind. Who Forget US going to take all day. So. They didn't find anything and then the FBI filed a. Complaint which is the unlawful flight to avoid confinement? which opened up the manhunt to all federal agents nationwide, and then the FBI began investigating friends and family of the escapee's on July eleven. So this is what five days later seven days later, a seventeen year old girl is taken hostage by two gunmen as she is quietly. How sitting? They take her car keys? She calls the cops. They take off in her car. the police find them driving down the road and as they're chasing them. The Guy Wrecks the car. He gets like super injured his occupant. The other inmate takes off running. And Michael. Romero was arrested. Schmidt however ran away before he could be caught. And on the same day, a man living Santa Fe, noticed blood droplets his walkway, leading to his garage. He called the cops to report it. Police responded and found Schmidt hiding in the garage, bleeding from the injury sustained in the car crash so now, four of the escapees have been captured and Gilbert. Kinsley guy goes for the only people who have not been found. The police went back. Back to storage facilities after questioning Davis again, and he was standing by his stories like no, they're going to be in a storage facility like I. Promise You. This is I heard them talking about it. They went back to one of the storage facilities, and this lady's like Oh. Yeah, you know what after you guys left? I found some more files I didn't know we're here likely story. That, cop who was charged with that was like Oh, yeah, she found another box whereas he had the box. Since he's like Oh yeah, here you go and handed to them and they're like. Oh, here's the connection to goggles. Go to that storage unit and sure enough. It looked like several people had been living in it. They were like pizza boxes, and like soda bottles, and all kinds of stuff there and they had drilled a hole in the wall, so they could see like everything that was happening outside. So? They knew if the police were looking around, they knew you know they could see the traffic on the road, so they had plenty of warning if they had to get away, was pretty genius hiding place for them, so the FBI then used a pen register. Do you know that is now? It's basically an electronic device that records any numbers called from particular telephone line. And they applied this device to a handful of friends and family of the escapee's that they felt were capable of assisting and resulted in a hit on a call to a motel in Albuquerque FBI and police went to the motel, showed photos to the front desk agent and she recognized them. The entire area was searched, but they were unsuccessful in locating them. They had already left. It, really does feel like they were a step ahead the entire time. They really had a thought out plan. The major concern that the police had was for kinsman and Gilbert. who both murderers and Kim slow was also known as a rapist, and so is Gilbert so there were a huge threat to the community I. Think the at this time the entire state with freaked out. People were scared. people were worried. They were going to run into them so as they're on the run the FBI and And police were working around the clock to find them. Everything seem helpless. Until something happened in Arizona, James had already proven that he was a danger to society and he he showed that as he stalked potential victims in Arizona. He forced his way into a home started looking for weapons. He was able to get a shot gun. Several handguns a rifle as well as ammunition. He then forced the family to get into their vehicle and. Forced the data drive them to California at gunpoint. Once. He gets to Barstool California. He takes his hostages to a motel. He ties them up and then takes their vehicle as well as their eleven year old daughter and drives away Oh, my God, the parents eventually get free from the restraints somehow and call the police so now the FBI. Were dispatched to the area barstool looking for Kim slow and after two hours, police officers flagged down by the eleven year old girl in Garden Grove California, which is about one hundred miles away from where she was abducted. He dropped her off behind a restaurant and told her stay here. And he would, he would be back and if she called the cops, he would find her and kill her. She totally ignored him. Find him down or flagged down a police officer. And? What about us? As an eleven year old. Just have that like fuck you leaving. That's amazing so Kim slow has the family's car still and she had overheard him talking about talking about meeting a friend at a trailer park. So she gave the police a description, the police started patrolling and they find the vehicle. they decided to take a cautious approach surveilled vehicle rather than burst into the residents. The vehicle left the mobile home. He was immediately approached by police in FBI and he was cornered. So he finally gives up surrenders police then interrogate Kenzo, in order to locate the last two fugitives Kim slow, totally sells out his buddies. He tells the police where they are. which was a motel in Garden Grove. Police. FBI decide to raid the motel. There were two rooms total. One Room had Gilbert and goes, and then the second room directly below was the family member of Guy Goes. Who helped them escape? The escapees were quickly apprehended and arrested, and they had several firearms as well as plenty of ammunition. And on July twenty, first, the final three fugitives back in prison so. Almost a month they were out causing havoc on the face. Additional charges as well as additional sentences added to their current sentences, and the three ringleaders were sentenced to life in prison. And that is the totally insane story of the Independence Day escape of Nineteen eighty-seven, so crazy twists and turns, and all kinds of crazy stuff happening. That's really intense. Hey everyone. If you're like me and you struggle with adult acne, you know that it's super annoying to wake up with a giant pimple on your face today. Sponsor is hero cosmetics. And they sent me over the mighty patch, which is a hydrocare Lloyd acne patching actually had a huge temple pop up last night so I stuck on a mighty patch original. And in the morning, the pimple was totally flattened very cool. If you WANNA, try the mighty patch for yourself, use code troop fifteen. That's T., R., U., e., fifteen or fifteen percent off on hero cosmetics dot com. Say. Or how to follow that the only thing I think that is really ironic now that I'm looking at it as mind also by story also takes place in July, but a year later your later. That is so crazy. So. My story involves a very one sided love story. The story of my life. Yeah, have you seen that mean it's like people in bed and it says this could be us if you stop calling the police on me. I don't know what to make that. Is it like dark humor? Getting bullies. Because I'm not supposed to be in your bed. That's scary. So we're GONNA talk about an unrequited love story. So, July nine, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety eight. New Mexico. July. It's Hotta shit out here. Tempers. Tempers are up. Things are hot. The Sun is burning your face off YEP and. Your heart is also burning. For the one you love, you would do anything for or maybe not. So July, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight is the date when America witness another one of its more bizarre and brazen prison break attempts. The attempt involved a years long infatuation that found its way to New Mexico in came to a head with a hijacked helicopter. Bullshit yes. The Chop. This is gonNA. Be Amazing I can tell already at the center of the Hugh Houdini Act was a beverly shoemaker and Daniel Mahoney. Daniel was a convicted murderer and beverly was utterly devoted to him. Let's sweet own romantic. Prison PEN PALS DOT com. That's a very interesting question, so Mahoney was convicted of murdering a woman in Tampa Florida. In Nineteen eighty-one and he had a history of prison escapes. He escaped to prison for Maryland. He escaped prison for in Florida on Christmas Eve in nineteen, eighty, three around the same time of his stint Florida's when he met Beverly Shoemaker, she was a home health aide, but other than that. It's not really clear how they got connected So maybe it was one of those penpal things who knows you don't funny story. Segue of how you meet. Inmates is my dad's ex. Girlfriend met and fell in love with his brother after his brother was released from prison in Minnesota. And the Brothers Aunt my dad's sister. was like Hey I'll take you to go. Meet this really great guy. I'M GONNA. Go pick them up as he's released from prison, so it does happen. I just. So, she dumps my dad and goes and falls in love with his brother when he is released from prison where you telling this story. Is it takes me. Oh Yeah. Oh Yeah Oh yeah, okay. Yeah. This is a show about New Mexico. I just gave video the most perplexed look. Like. I was not prepared for her to tell me that story just popped into my head was. How do you eat meat inmates? Oh wait. I know it's. So you don't have to be lonely. INMATES ONLY DOT com. Okay sorry go ahead. So. Beverly was this home health aid? We don't know how she got connected to Daniel Shoe was short. She was doughty. She's considered by some to be fairly homely. She was ten years plus a senior, but for some reason they connected when he was in prison in Florida and she was hooked on whatever was he had? Heart and loving I mean he had like a moustache I don't know he's a womb broom. Isn't that what? Some. Grows. Jesus Christ. Beverley started following. From prison to prison because she's in love with cable. Explain that to me. What does that mean I? Guess she like getting arrested and going to now. She's not in prison with him. Whatever towns? Anytime he gets transferred to new prison. She picks up and goes with him I don't know why he keeps getting transferred. It could be because of his escape attempts, and if knowing that. Why did they send them to New Mexico? Saturday. I know, let's send them somewhere where they just had. A bunch of people escape multiple times. Great idea so she's basically like a grateful dead. Rhody for this prisoner, right Yep, okay right just like not even a Rhody, because I don't really know what kind of a Groupie groupie. I mean I'm not. I'm not trying to Kink Shamar, you know judge anybody here, but that just seems a little extreme. Yeah I mean. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a total manipulative asshole. Totally, yeah, it. Kind of makes sense that he would be that person. So, he's later transferred to the New Mexico State Penn in Santa Fe, and beverly follows him to the land of enchantment. She claimed to prison officials that he that she was his common law wife and she would do everything in her power to visit him at least twice a week. Okay, but don't you have to actually be living with SOMEBODY TO BE COMMON LAW SPOUSE? I can't imagine I don't know not to shade the eighties, because we are both products of the eighties, but and says alive thorough where people checking things. And also the eighties in New Mexico was probably like okay. Okay Yeah. I still now it's very much like the wild wild west. Okay? Sounds good to me I'm not gonNA. Go and research this. So do you think it was like conjugal visits? I don't know I couldn't find anything in the articles that I read to indicate that there was a sexual component. Than her infatuation for him and later on, we'll here. We'll get some insight into kind of what he thinks of her own. Can we to hear that, so? She's visiting him weekly and it's kind of unclear. Who came up with this plan to try to escape prison and it's also unclear why there was this involvement with two other inmates named Lucky and Mitchell, but they were. Lackey and Mitchell those aren't real well. That's their last names. Lackey Mitchell all right? Sorry, go ahead, don't judge. But they're along for the ride to the of New Mexico name. I'm just saying I'm just saying I could tell you were not from around here. My cousin. So, the plan was for beverly to charter a helicopter, and in a really gutsy ballsy move. The plan would be for her to force the pilot to land the CHAPA down in the REC yard of the prison. Path everyone board onto the pre the chopper and take off no way. Yeah, so when you hear wreck yard. That giant grassy, typically grassy area were inmates do physical activities working out whatever basketball or whatever yeah I. Mean I would probably just stand there, but. You would be sitting on the bleachers talking about everybody. And we. All the time. Mean was basically like high school. High, school minus the Shanking I was never seen in high school. The risk was always. Also just because we lived in Koro. Okay, so she to the plan is for her to hijack a helicopter. A chop up. You have to say like towards. That's insane. In landed in the prison yard. This isn't real life this. This is this happened. There's no way there's proof. There's receipts are okay, so beverly woke up that fateful morning. July, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight. It's just a few days before. Daniel's birthday so I guess this is kind of her gift to him, so she woke up. She got dolled up in her own way. She stole a bunch of guns and ammunition from. Hey. I can't judge I've been having an eyebrow situation since the quarantine happen. I can't even go into it right I. will I'm over tweeting because I get anxious and then I try to fill in my brow, but now my brow is too heavy. With makeup. It's a situation. Anyway back to. This episode is brought to you by hero cosmetic. So beverly woke up. She got gussied up. She stole some guns and ammunition for her from her roommate, who had no idea what was going on? But at least she left a note behind and said thank you for the guns and ammunition I need it more than you. Just kiss hug hugged ex. So. She used a fake name and she went to charter that helicopter. She got the helicopter in Santa Fe and once she in the pilot and the pilots. Name Was Charles Aka cheater. Is that a gang me. No, his name was just his nickname was cheater cheater. Bella little smokey smokey. OCHRE! So once she and cheated on the air, beverly brandished a handgun, and allegedly pointed at him, and told him that he needed to lay on the helicopter at the prison to pick up her bow, and his two fellow bandit buddies. A fourth inmate tried to get on the helicopter when they landed in the REC yard like. They were like nope. kicked. Him Out. This, is I mean if this is a movie needs to be a movie, because it's hilarious work on it. We'll work on all right so this other inmate is trying to get along on the ride and escape prison with them, and they're like nope. Physically kick him out. I imagine you might have fallen a distance because the checking off. Yeah, the choppers taking off and he's trying to get on in. They said no, Oh my God So once they were able to kick him out, the chopper was able to get into the air and start flying the CHIAPPA. So guards at the prison extra started firing at the helicopter. Hit a couple of times, but the chopper was in the air. They were escaping I mean I. Get it like I get your trying to stop this escape, but don't you think that there's a lot of risk if you shoot the helicopter down? It could like fall right back into the prison yard and chop everybody's heads off. I. Guess That's a risk you have to take. Wouldn't know I have never been in a situation. A prison guard so I can't. Anything so shortly after they lift off in the air. Police are in quick pursuit, not only in the land of not only on land, but also in the air. They have a Blackhawk from us. Customs following them. They have helicopters from New Mexico state police, so they stayed in the air for nearly two hours. I imagine during this time. Everyone's like okay. What do we do now? I don't know if they had a plan about what to do so eventually. The helicopter started running low on fuel. And so it touched down near a landing strip in Los. Lunas and at that time to inmates jump out. BEVERLY JUMPS OUT AT. Everyone makes a run for it. Beverly was later captured hiding in a plane hangar in Edwin. She was captured. She still found in possession of some ammunition. It just sounds like this was a half. Baked idea like didn't really have a plan on what to do once. They got out of the prison. They just were like Oh shit. Maybe they were just like well didn't think we'd get this far. Let's NC like my story. At least they had a serious plans very serious plan. Yeah, this one I. Don't know that although it starts off really gutsy. Yeah, it Kinda tapers out right away. So another inmate was found at a roadblock. Because as you can imagine they set up. Road blocks trying to capture everybody. The helicopter made its final landing near Albuquerque's airport and the pilot cheater was taken into custody because people didn't know if he was involved. And he was actually detained for a while, but he was later cleared of charges. Police were especially worried about Mahoney. Beverly's paramore because him, being on the loose was a concern, he was convicted murderer. They believed he would be totally capable of trying to take hostages hurting innocent bystanders, so they definitely wanted to catch him and sure enough early morning the next day he was found hiding in a Bush under a bridge outside Los Lunas. I mean as one does. We've all been there. That was like a Thursday. Right. You're in a Bush. Yeah, you had way too much pitch. Mad Dog Twenty twenty. Your cousin Gus in upstate. Yeah, you're upset or sad. Go Cry Yeah You! Take your. Bridge, yeah. People, that like I have listeners all over the world now like they're going to be like what the hell are these people talk? What isn't ocean water as Art Art? From the UK or from another country and you come to the US go to sonic. Get you route forty four ocean water. You can thank me later. You have to put liquor in it. Yeah yeah, that's what makes it. A cocker, also, it's still good. I. Mean that's a coconut flavored I'm not a big ocean water. I'm Cheri Lie Major Lamy. Extra charities. So. I can chew on. I could. I Kentucky not when my tongue. It's so sexy. Editing all that out. So beverly made it very clear to authorities that she did all of this because she loved Daniel. She was a prisoner to her infatuation with him. Some people write love letters. Others hijack helicopters yet to get your. You know your paramore out of prison. Mahoney on the other hand. He said he did the escape because he was bored. She's all right. He never really gave any indication that I could find that he was reciprocating any of this. This love for attention I mean. I WANNA feel bad for her meow. Don't know. So, beverly, dear beverly she was convicted of. Of obviously helping somebody escape prison. She later served thirty three months in jail. I mean yeah. Yeah I mean I don't know. New Mexico. Get it together. She was also paid by the national enquirer to write about her ill fated love story. Do you know how much he made? I think it was only like three thousand dollars. Out and get an agent, but then again it was the eighty S. Seventy million. Dollars Dollars. I know what insulation and I can do math. Know inflation is when your air. Mattress. Deflation stupid. So she also apparently had a ton of street, cred and respect from her fellow. Yeah, because they were just like. Wow, you kissed. All helicopter landed in a prison yard and took off with a bunch of inmates, so she has some street because as the best story I've ever heard. Entire life you know at the end of the day when she was interviewed by people, she said whatever I did. I did it out of my love for Daniel Mahoney. And as of Twenty Fifteen What I could find Mahoney was still incarcerated and serving a life sentence for murder I. Don't know if he's still in New Mexico. But as of two thousand fifteen, he was still in prison. I don't even know if he's still alive. I don't know if the other inmates are still live either, but she's still alive I. Don't know articles I read didn't mention it. I want to know so much more. I want to follow up I. Want a Netflix special four part series. New Tiger King. I'm telling you I want her to have a twitter. Follow Shit out of that twitter now. I know what that means. I just created a twitter today and I know what that means to follow somebody or no 'cause you followed me followed you. Wait to your house. And like can you just imagine it would be all caps non? It'll be like like shares. Twitter shares twitter. Yes, it'll be like that I feel like. She would be using it like if it was google l like. Prison singles. Dot Com TWEET! She types tweet all caps. Hashtag were my man's at I can't mock that the people who are not tech savvy. Okay, because I am also one of that ilk. I know it's fine, but I'm just saying that's for sure what it would be I know I wonder where she's at. If anybody could find out if you're around. You should like totally email me because I want a story about your life. This is the best story I've ever heard in my life beverly. US, please beverly you. WanNa talk to you them on. BEVY! While that was that was crazy. That was amazing. That was a lie I had everything had helicopters had kicking? People off of helicopters had bridge sleeping yet? I. Mean what else do you need? Yeah? I mean I don't know. Other, things I guess, but. Sordid affair that they lead I'm so glad that we covered this topic it's it was way more fascinating than I thought it was going to be. It had a little bit more levity than yours. Is was heavy. It was heavy. But. It was good. It was very good intense. That is the outcome of good planning for prison breaks whereas mine. Not. Well, I still appreciate the story because it was insane. Basha, crazy story. I love that Shit Okay so just so you know. Everybody knows because I won't stop fucking talking about it. I am starting a new show it's. Those Kenya's with my friend Alex. it's all about paranormal New Mexico smooth key, and it's going to launch in conjunction with the season finale of true consequences season two. So can't wait to hear it. Yeah check it out. I love that supernatural. She needed to, and there's a lot of it here. Oh, yeah. All right well thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me over. Thanks for listening everybody and stay safe new. Mexico thanks again for listening to two consequences. Call US on social media. On instagram and facebook at true consequences pod. And on twitter at true cons pod. True consequences is hosted written and produced by me. Your host Eric Carter Lundin's thanks for listening and stay safe New Mexico.

New Mexico Mexico murder Santa Fe Carol Gilbert twitter FBI Beverly James Neal Kim albuquerque Daniel Mahoney officer David Guy attorney William Wayne Gilbert Daniel FBI facebook State Penitentiary
48: Purple Pilled

Night Call

51:11 min | 2 years ago

48: Purple Pilled

"Today's episode of night. Call is brought you by Roswell New Mexico catch the series premiere of Roswell New Mexico, Tuesday, January fifteenth only on the CW. If you're an in Joshua, tree, California on you're listening tonight. Call. Welcome back tonight. Call a range days and lonely nights. Hello twenty nine teen. Of the starter pack. We've been doing that we cast for about a year almo- almost a year. It's going to be are they in February the long Easter in history, we should create that wishlist not on Amazon, but on another platform of our choosing. So you can send us present. Just to go behind the curtain a little bit. It has been like a very long time since we've said done and done a podcast. I miss you guys of the miracle banking episodes. So thanks for all of your fund feedback, especially for our holiday specials and various night. Call museum episodes and whatnot. Those were really fun to do. So glad everybody liked them to. Hey, speak. Yeah. Of night museum and lock near that kind of inspired. It. We're going to talk about black mirrors new interactive episode and bird box Vander snatched bird box. Somebody made the joke on Twitter that that's the guy plays doctor strange and someone also made the joke that both of them sound like Victorian names for female genitalia. Bandra snap and bird box. There is something very like unplaced hilarious about the name bird box. And I kept like searching for a joke about it. Because it just sounds like a fake name. Let's talk about that because. Yeah. Okay. So what Emily was talking about was that there was a conspiracy possibly true that net flicks. With seating some fake memes about bird box astroturf ING astroturf. Ing bird box memes to get the bird box memes ago in and they share did get go. They did get going did. And now they're just real now, they're real. And so there was an article, you know, as this sort of became a debate. But there was an article on the daily dot that kind of followed up with it. And like, I guess talked to people at net who denied that they had been astroturf, Ian that said that all of the viral content was real and the the person who had originally kind of floated the idea that these were fake accounts that were at least seeding the bird box memes. Deleted. Their post. Because the people who are being accused of having fake accounts were coming back because they were getting flooded with mentions and said, you know, I'm real person. I'm just like, you know, I don't I'm just new to Twitter, but I liked bird box. Whatever leave me alone. Right. I I just created my account two weeks ago, specifically just to treat bird box content. But how dare you as one that aren't unit was very compelling because these were all the mostly teenage looking avatars with like fifteen followers who just created accounts and everything was bird box me that then received lots and lots of re tweets and likes a suspicious. Sure, I mean, maxed read my colleague, New York MAG. He had very recently published an article around Christmas on kind of the idea of of fakery on the internet in general, and how the fate of it. Well, the that everything is fake. But also that nobody accepts it anything is real anymore. So everything is defacto fake. Like, we're already at the mercy of the robots I put that in quotes. But like, you know, the idea that not even a person online like you have to verify that you're human every step of the way to do anything on the internet anymore. The idea of being a real person on YouTube, for example, it's more probable that that an editor is bought on YouTube than an actual person. So like we spend more time trying to prove that we're people than. Yeah. You've all said the other way around lost my innocence about people on the internet like being who they say they are. Yeah. I think right. Like most people are who they say they are and are like presenting themselves somewhat accurately, but some. People just are not some people use internet to be scammers. So so here's like the thing that I I'm still skeptical about the Netflix thing because the other thing that happened with bird box bird boxes, just like bird box the movie itself. I mean, I don't know. If you guys watched it at all, it is it is dumb as hell. A really dislike this movie, but it's also just like boring and just kind of it's technically not a quiet place rip off. But it may as well be like it because it's like based on a book that came out before quiet places, blah, blah, blah. But it's still it feels engineered to kind of have that effect is sent on Wor. Yeah. Yeah. It's like hush or like any of these other things where it's like, you can't do one thing with one of your five senses. What am I somebody who was saying? That means we're going to get to a movie where it's like don't smell anything. I I really don't smell it. And it's called don't. There's like a Junji ITO about just like a horrible smell that like over. Yeah. Everything. Death stench that comes from nowhere. Basically the plot of of bird box sept- that something that it's something that you can't see, but you're is like taken, and then you wanna kill yourself, which is like, okay. It's like an interesting idea, but it's just acute so unimaginative. Anyway, it's not really the point. Like, I think that bird boxes somehow become this this kind of container for all of our various things i-it-it's about Netflix and viral marketing, and you know, what is real. And what is fake on the inner here's the thing is like I didn't initially question that people were like doing bird box memes and talking about bird box because they dropped it in such a dead zone. Right. The drummed in for Christmas. That was the whole thing was like, it's a prestige movie premiering on Netflix, and you can watch it from home with your family. But it's a lot of watched. It is really just was like people will watch it. 'cause it's there. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's like. And watch the thing that like Netflix tells you is a blockbuster event or grow out and spend, you know, one hundred dollars for your whole family to see Mary Poppins returns, or whatever. Like, they did a good job and more people. I think probably stayed home in watch bird box went to see Mary Poppins. Well, I could also see the argument of these things being real is that if you join Twitter and are a teenager, and you have no followers like you're going to hop on the train of the thing that is being hash to we kind of some traction. So that kind of makes sense. And also, I mean, clearly like the responses of like, no, I'm real I'm real teen. Okay. Like robots, but it's my, you know, thought when I'm only brought this up as you know, like an astroturf thing. But I was like why also net flicks banner snatch has been trending Alah. And and I was like, but why would they need to do that with black mirror? I mean black mirror is talked about a lot. I don't know what else to do it. But I feel like this came up in the max read article the idea that like all of the trending tags are just like fake and paid for for the most part, and I'm like, yeah. So like, well, it's all just like a con game on top of congress game. Like, it's just like a house of cards of people say, oh that looks legit. Like I've seen so many kids talking about bird box so net. Flicks must really know what they're doing. Yeah. People will agree to have their property or their their work or something on on Netflix, for example. Right. Oh, so the other thing is that Netflix. I think it was that day that all the sort of started to happen. And or maybe it was the day after but net flicks. Then tweeted out something on their official account saying that bird box was officially like the most watched film. Oh, yes. Original been watched on something like forty five million accounts or something don't not release their main their metrics except every once in awhile, they'll be like this was a record breaker for us. And it's like how were we like it would even be specious? If it was, you know, late day released in a monthly report or something. But but they don't even do that. So why leave? The black mirrors net flicks. Now, I know and this up Assode particular Bander snatch which is like a standalone movie, interactive hypertext thing. It felt like it was about Netflix. That you also feel that way. I did not do it. I mean, so he'll do. Yeah. I will do it eventually, but I do feel less and less like immediate gotta watch it black mirror should watch this in terms of it being about net flex because it's about like, a creator making something for like a shadowy company that they're just like just take the money and make the thing question. Hi, it's happening or like how it happens. I love black mirrors. It did feel kinda like a subversive thing to me, especially I mean, it probably wouldn't have. But then by the time, I watched it. I was thinking so much about the Astros. The ostrich are with. Question the nature of reality that I just totally didn't think of it until someone else pointed it out, and then I was like, wow. I'm really so naive about you say, you got red pills. I got. Invent like a new one purple. Per pilled. I got perp. But I think the thing that's makes me feel like a tin hat crazy person about this stuff is that, you know, after the person who who got that viral treat about you know, that I think these accounts are fake and brought up recorded themselves going back and looking at this one person's account and seeing they had three followers or whatever. Then they rescinded this. But I'm just thinking like, okay. Yeah. There are probably plenty of teens who are actually doing bird box memes because like you said like this anywhere hot thing. So I think there are plenty of real bird box memes. But I do not at all. And this is also from spent way too much time that morning looking up all these accounts did find somewhere it's just like this person joined this month. All they do is like content about right? Yes. Late found out that like tied invented the tide. Pods me. Yeah. Right. Fierce tied to get tied. Trending. Well, what's kind of weird about this stuff too? Is that the the companies that are making the products that I really in the content that I really enjoy the most are also the companies with it seems the least ethics, you know? So it's hard because it's like I don't need to have anyone tell me to watch black mirror last year. When we started the podcast. I like an eye problem that I've talked about us and the old the I thought I had was like, but there's plaque mirror like almond. How am I gonna watch black mirror? You know like there. With your worm? I watched I waited until I like could open my one high enough, and I'll watch it. So like, yeah. Okay. So there could be real people making these accounts. But I think that the seeding I think the cdn is you don't have to be thinking like a conspiracy conspirator to to imagine that because I mean people did that before it was called astroturf hield used to make fake memes about the housewives for my shitty job where I just made like where I was like a social media manager for like a fan site for Bravo shows like I just made like Joe don't question just crazy fans of bird box or just making these things because they love it. How dare you? Right. And the ethics of giant company making these things they want you to consume. Yeah. It's like can't we just let people have fun or something. But it's just I mean after a while the argument becomes moot. Because there are then enough people actually doing the thing. That they were led to believe a thing to do possibly by you know, astroturf, gene. Or some other means then it just becomes like the phenomenon becomes real. It's no longer synthetic. But it was clearly it works. Yeah. I don't know. Just makes me feel insane. Well, I was going to say like I feel like one of the things we always talked about on this podcast me, even maybe many years ago. It was the idea that like your phones are listening to you, which was totally not mainstream at the time. And we had a lot of friends who worked in those industries who'd be like, no, they wouldn't do that. And it's like, why wouldn't they right? And now, we all know, the no we all do, and it's like unquestioned, and I still feel like I see people all the time saying like people who are like tech reporters and writers saying that this can't be real. But I'm just I like an autumns razor thing. If you I think it was Dave hill or something who tweeted about I think it was talking about Alouette cheese, and then it showing up on his Instagram. Yeah. And like like the outcomes razor of that is not like, oh, no all. Yeah. Will you like cats, and you like stripy socks? So therefore, you'll like Alouette cheese. No, the like easiest thing to assume that like yes, you have a microphone on your phone, right? Because then people would have to think about not having their phones on them all the time, and every has just like within a decade normalized that. I'm also just the thing about Facebook reading private messages, where it's like that would never have even occurred to me, you know, that that was going, and you know, that that Facebook is like going you guys aren't on Facebook not anymore. Too young when they made everybody download that for your phone, and you couldn't access your messages on Facebook unless you had the messenger app. My Spidey sense went off immediately. I never downloaded the messages out because I was like why are they having us do this? And I dare end of laid off of using WhatsApp to when they bought it. Because I mean, I had been using that to talk to people like overseas, and then I was like I'm not going to have substantive conversation anymore. I I was on Facebook and a friend of mine posted about like, a voice over casting, call for a particular model of a particular brand of of car, and it was just on Facebook. And I like liked it. And then I was like, oh, I still have the microphone from we did the podcast in the garage. Like, I'll record it. I record it. I send it I hadn't googled the model of car. I had not like, you know, typed it out nothing. Five minutes later. I got a targeted ad for the particular model of car. Right, which I never in my life. And it's like, obviously, this is going on. And then you almost feel like gas lit because we're like I'm going. I have. Because. Yeah. Like member, and there's a picture of Zuckerberg where it was like his camera was taped over and young because he knows he knows he knows and they've all been buying the whole time. Like, we don't know who can say. Yeah. But honestly, don't understand how anybody's St.. I'm sorry tests. I don't know how people are still on Facebook now or like. Right. 'cause I ain't call. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. They own they own Instagram Ling. Yeah. If you're on the same thing, I dunno Jones E was talking about how we're all robots now. And somebody was like I'm not a real about. And he was like, well, what's the first thing? You do when you like the last thing you do at night. And they were like look at me phone didn't wasn't there. Some phone. Robot all in boxes? Look remind organic bird, boss. See? Good one today by Dan dairy. Oh, he made an art pop bird box me. Oh nice. You're right about beer bird box. Could be anything. Exactly. Just like once a word. It's a funny. Word gets really Anderson is also a funny word Vander snatch wins for me. There's no way that bender snatches not a pornographic slang word. There's just no way Anderson asked Lewis Carroll ISM, and that's in twenty nineteen which is where we are right now. 'cause I almost said twenty eighteen nineteen twenty nineteen you look at the word band or snatch. And there's true. Maybe that's why he picked takes it. One step further though to feeling like like a black mirror. Like, so many detractors have been saying for years in which I try to ignore is like the Radiohead of TV shows. Yeah. I just. Also. And yet even though it's based on a thing from Alice in wonderland, and it's Allison wonderland themed. It's very good. I enjoy today. Oh, I still love it. She's doing Nathan barley episode sometimes. Yeah. The only invest show about the two thousands. This week's episode of night. Call is brought to you by care of of is a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin at supplement packs right to your door. So it's a new year. 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Great for business and on the go types and portion of every sale goes toward the good plus foundation, which provides expectant mothers in need with valuable prenatal vitamins. So you can feel good about being a care of member as well vegan vegetarians supplement options are also available to match your dietary needs. I started getting my care of box last year and came with some things I knew I needed that were kind of my my go-to B, vitamins and calcium. But I also kind of switched it up and tried some fish oil supplements iron supplements other things that I found out from my quiz. I might not be getting enough of. So it was a really really simple way to get all those in a really easy to use package for twenty five percent off of your first month of personalized care vitamins. Go to take care of dot com and enter promo code call. But see a l l who one more time that is take care of dot com with promo code call. So we take our Eamon night Email. Hello ladies of the night. I just wanted to say I love the pod. Currently binging the archives and can't stop a couple of things. First potential. Guests would be who would be amazing is my friend vice cooler in addition to running the Instagram haunts of LA and taking group slash friend tours of haunted ghost towns in California and the surrounding area. He's also one of my great Disneyland. Buddies, a wonderful wealth of haunted and Disney knowledge, by the way. That's like exactly are. Sweet. Yeah. Thank you for that recommendation. Komo owner show. I saw him in rule. I feel wasn't that a person that people thought was you for a while? I think the LA no that's valley. Hong alley valley. Also thought valley haunts might be our engineer Roy's wife. Yes. Although she has denied it. Right. But it turns out she has the same name as the really specific name. Okay, finishing the Email. Second I live in Joshua tree. And although I have yet to encounter any mention of Joshua tree on the pod. Have you guys explored any of the mystery of the high Dez once you get past the LA, hipster invasion. It's something of a hotbed of here of mystery UFO's murders crime meth and probably ghosts with love to hear more on the topic. Happy night calls. So Molly, didn't you just go to Joshua J? I just went to Joshua tree actually went to twenty nine palms, which is next door yet. I had not been to the high desert since I was a kid when we went on family trips there. It is great. It is super weird. I totally agree. Definitely a place. You might see some aliens. Also, just being able to see the night sky is crazy. Yeah. It's very clear out there. Kind of makes you be like, oh, we invented light pollution to stop us from looking at this because it's so overwhelming and cool. Didn't somebody send us something else about an index of where we're like dark spots. Yeah. Dark sky dark sky. Yeah. It's a thing about like encouraging more places to have less lighting. So that you can see the actual night sky. But again, when you do see it, you're like, it makes you very feel very small in a way. That is great. Yeah. Yeah. The desert I was that weird overlap of hippies and preparez and alien people. I mean, I feel like the most famous Joshua tree thing that's probably like falls in that realm as the Integra Tron. Yes. Like, which I've still never actually been in our tried to go like so many times, and wait, and what is booked Integra? Try an outsider art thing that somebody made that is like a sound bath inside. It's like there's no medal in the construction of a dome, but it's all wood. So it like supposedly resonates really like, I think it was tuned to the frequencies, Venus or something like that. I don't remember. But you book I think our couple hour. And yeah. Bencze will how do they make without nails? Hold on. It's a dome be dome. How's it puts? They did get the plans from Venus. That's yeah. I'm recalling now. Yeah. The ancient alien I'm looking up how they built this things. You like you you get the would wet and then it can you? Shape it. Yeah. And then you kinda we've it it's like a boat. You know, twenty nineteen ninety is going to be all about building your own dwellings. Yes. Whole earth Calor Jones in twenty nine. Yeah. I enjoy hanging around the outside of the integral which I've done many times because I'm like, oh, I can't go in. But watch people hanging around the Integra Tron, which right? Yeah. How we feel about it which is principal say you like get nauseous people got nauseous because the sound is so intense of it because they do bowls like those sort of. Yeah. Look it's like bird box with your ear. It is. It's. Don't listen don't drown in the sound. I want to know what the chicken and egg thing though, is about aliens and paranormal stuff and peppers and stuff and the desert. It's the desert. I mean, I think that the the solitude certainly helps and like having an ability of the real. So I can't go to the desert. We've talked about this before on the pads us. I had to go to the desert. I went to Indian Wells, which is pretty close to Josh you and golfing. It was like a multifamily. Yeah. Saying that I could not talk my way out of despite really trying to talk my way out of it. It was in rod expanse. It was I think in late June. It was one hundred and twenty degrees. So f- why it was it was like a record-breaking summer heat wave thing. And then I put my hand on the car window as we were driving through, you know, basically like approaching Palm Springs too hot to touch, and then we got there, and we stayed there. All of these like weird kind of like affordable resort type things with like, multiple pools and water slides and stuff. Yeah. Pump springs. I like understand the appeal of it. But it is not for me. It's just odd because I'm not like a sun person. So I like pumps of like bake all day in the sun like in the hot. Son because the inside like, what's the fun? You. Inside outside and night. And it's still warm and the stars. You can see all the stars. And you can like walk around in a bathing suit at night, and like get dry and two seconds out of getting out of a pool. But great when we went I was like, okay, it'll cool off at night. And then I'll go walk around because all day. I was like not going out. I did degrees at night. It was one hundred twelve at ten learning PM I took like on of my weather app because I was like I cannot believe this, and I went outside and was just like sitting there sweating, and it was like show dark, but I was like ICU. I people do this. I am just frayed my own dark mental speed is not what I want generally. Yeah. The winter desert. I will say was amazing. When in hot springs and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. My friend, my friend picked a place with a hot spring, and then we passed a place that was called old woman. Hot springs road that I look I think I I'm familiar with old woman offerings potential night. Call commune resort. Somebody bought it and turned it into a resort. But it hasn't been open since the eighties or something owns it. It's just like a weird abandoned hot springs resort. And that's where you went. You went to old woman. Oh, we just passed by. You can't go there and less. It's like on a special tour because it's not open to the public which again, I think there's like there's like a Bandon things in the desert just military bases. Part of what adds to the UFO stuff and the weirdness. I think that's the real core of the weirdness is the abandoned military bases. Right. Well, another interesting thing about Joshua tree. I think like even more so than poem the palm desert is the amount of kind of like uncool resorts and places to go. There are. Like like there are so many ads for just like seniors only. Well, endorsed ears of. Yeah. But it's like, not even the kitschy cool kind. It's kind of like the Poconos or something out here. Like knows it also reminds me of three women the almond. It's totally that vibe saying to people moving to the desert is like the moving upstate in New York. Right. Right. Yeah. Like, I gotta get outta here. Moving to the desert, but I was treating about moving to the desert, and then a friend of the pod Alana Johnson in for me, it will be uninhabitable soon because of global warming because when he was one hundred twenty I was like, I what point are people going to be going for vacations in the desert, and then they're just gonna die. Well, do die in the desert actors. Another reason why it's scary like death valley is legitimately like it's called death out. Right. My parents and my aunt uncle wants when on a hike there where they like got loss. And then told me about it like weeks later like, oh, yeah. We totally got lost our power and it was so hot hot. Glad we are live. And I was like don't do that like guys. I really interested though in hearing. If there are more nightcrawlers who live in the desert like it's such a divide like if I had if I were in my home in the desert, I don't think it would have the same effect. I think it's leaving the place where you live and then going to their heels inhospitable and having that, you know, for me, it feels inhospitable not for everybody. Some people have the desert, obviously. But like, I'm very interested in what the like vibe as a resident well that I think is a whole other thing 'cause you know, definitely isn't horizontal place like LA people, but yet townies and lifers there, I'm sure have different opinions. I stayed at my friends grandfather's house. He lived in Palm Springs, and he was at the time like in his late eighties. And that was some like just I just got a real good peek into that. Right. Well, that's also like when you go somewhere, and you stay in like a real place versus going on like a vacation. Yeah. I know when you go somewhere, and you're like, oh, this is what it would be like to live in this place. Yeah. Give us your. Calls about the high desert, the low desert, the inbetween desert desert, any desert at all and desert, yet food desert desert. I would I would actually really welcome more food. I was looking there was a peppermint. Hi hat cake. I'm sorry. I digress guys. There was a peppermint. Hi hat cake on Instagram that low permit high you say that like it's a thing that we're all familiar knives. A bathing you for you to ask you that question. It is a chocolate cake. And then the frosting is, and I don't really like crossing that much, but there is like twice as much frosting as cake, but the frosting is marshmallow puffy. And then you close the whole thing in mill shock. I've been thinking about this cake for two it's like a giant like Malley giant are looking thing. But it's, but I don't care for the base of a mouse. Like a snowball Jake. Yeah. It's like a snowball cage. It looked really good. You wanna look up the peppermint? Hi hat cake. I'm sure you'll find the exact one that. I was talking about regional cakes is something we always ask me. Boston cream pie is the NADA pie. But it's a cake, but it's so good, and it's awesome cream pie. I don't know. No. It is she layers of vanilla cake with vanilla custard. Inbetween covered with chocolate Cannossian. It's the best desert. No other this. Did you everyone Boston cream pie? Like one of the most now like like Delhi case pie type thing. It's so I can't round. To the coconut cream pie. He I'm a longtime listener first time caller. I was curious. What is the chili industry like in and around Roswell? And do you prefer red or green chili or do they go for Christmas? Thanks loud. That call came from Dalton aka sushi Jesus. Ooh. Thinks Altun interesting food for thought. So we're we in the middle of our conversation about the desert slash high desert. We've course must discuss the desert when it comes to alliens and the paranormal New Mexico and Roswell specifically have you been to Roswell before ever never know but into truth or consequences? Ooh. Agreed. I've been to Santa Fe and Albuquerque been too, and I spent like a few days in Santa fan. I loved it. And it had a lot of that kind of vibe. Also of like, I don't know. I think I got did. I get you guys alien hot sauce from from Santa Fe. I just remember like a lot of hot sauces a lot of green red chillies. I think it was green at the time with the ones that were everywhere and a lot of alien memorabilia, and I really liked the combination of all of those things. I would totally we should totally do a tour. Stop of Nikoil and in Santa Fe 'cause I loved it. Yeah. I went there a couple of summers ago. And also had a great time. It didn't it rain while you were there it rained while I was at like an ancient publicized in that was spiritual solely on it. Because she was like see it's raining. It's raining in New Mexico. You would put your arms out like in Jesus. Pose and open your mouth and be based by nature. We went to like an ancient ancient place. You know? I mean, that's also Ed is you're like there's ancient stuff here. There's like extremely like pre European culture colonizing stuff here, just everywhere, and it's you know, federal land. So you can go there and it's beautiful yet. There is like we looked over the Rio ground, and there was like a crazy storm came in. And just yeah. Just nature is amazing. It makes you feel very again, very small away on your like something is in charge. And that also makes you think of aliens breaks like some you're just like other things are happening all the time that have nothing to do with me, right, which I love so they're bringing back. I mean, bringing back in quotes Roswell on the CW, now's called Roswell New Mexico. But I think we all remember the the WB show from the late nineties that was just called Roswell. And it feels like the nostalgia wheel is turning. And we're back to being into alliens in the same way that we were in the nineties, but now it kind of can take on a different shape and after fan Pires comes aliens, totally such the seasons. What are where does ambi- fit was ambi-? Ambi- heart went out with zombies. I mean, there are a couple of like zombie teen romance movies that are kind of jokey unroll there's more longevity to like daily following into. Yeah. Fall in love with an alien or fallen in love with where will for vampire. Yeah. Where will thing? Never. Well, I guess teen wolf. Yeah. All right. All open myself up. Zombies are like their bodies are falling apart. Color into that. Like sugar daddy in the end all of our small, Mark. Mark. Sugar. Daddy zombie. This CW's Roswell. New Mexico is interesting. It's more of a reimagining of you know, it's kind of closer to the book and not not really it's not a rebe. Yeah. So what's really interesting about it is that it kind of places the story, which is about Liz or tackle. She's a scientist, and she ends up coming home to Roswell New Mexico following the death of her sister, which you know, there's more on that to follow. And then she ends up reconnecting with her friend from high school max, and something's off about max guys doesn't take us long to figure out that ma- and his siblings, and is siblings. Max's family is not not earthly. Not overtake NADA this world yet. It's based on this book series called Roswell high school arousal high rattling. Yeah. But the new one is definitely more faithful in some ways to the original books than the WB show was specifically like more with the characters and and just kind of the overall read some of the books. Also, right. I didn't read the book. Are you reading about the books, and you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just got that in the original books the character of Liz? Right. He nna and that they whitewashed it for the original show. Yeah. Yeah. So I was in the current Roswell New Mexico, the new show also slight spoiler. But I think it definitely deals that the idea of aliens and extraterrestrials in a more kind of topical political way. And you know, also being set in New Mexico somewhat near a border. You can kind of see how that stuff might all come in to play. And in the in the original books lizard been Latina and now she's Latina again. That's definitely her her. I love interest is now a cop. So, you know, there's a lot of stuff that you can kind of play with this fires thinking about like, what liens might mean to two audiences especially like teen audiences are young young adult audiences today. Like what you kind of what kind of import or meeting you kind of a sign to that. Also shout out to the fake conspiracy podcast on that show. Which was my light for me. Because I think that that's like the other interesting thing about the dozen. We've talked so much about coast to coast is when you're thinking about aliens a lot which you know, sometimes we are sometimes not. But it's like the the way that that kind of like curiosity and wonder turns into paranoia is an interesting dissent. I think to think about and especially, you know. Yes. Yeah. And especially in the context of like, you know, imagining what it's like to be in the kind of community. That's like, you know, dealing with paranoia earth. Based paranoia and supernatural paranoia. But I was really happy that that was included because that's I two most a life, man. So it's a throw it in there always needs to be a guy with headphones and microphone. That's us. The the chaotic good. To coarsely for featuring us on the list. Oh, yeah. By the way, saying that we were back in weirder than ever which has events. Like, it's true. We are weirder than I know. But the world is then ever it's true. We are the lone gunmen the lone gun people. Yeah. Exactly what I didn't like really one of the things. That's really great about the CW version of this is that it's very timely, and it kinda think it's like more interesting to see these characters as adults and end to, you know, have this history of this person who has been living in Roswell and is an alien, but it's kind of like a revelation as an adult, but he's known, you know, Liz for a long long time. So it's like, yeah. Keeping the secret has a little more gravity of them being sort of more that the story can do with them being adult, and especially Liz being like a practicing scientific genius. Definitely I mean, I was watching the original show. And like, you know, the most they can do is like studies some cells inside and their science lab class. But you know, when you have adult characters, and like, there's also a doctor that she also knows from high school who sort of like trying to investigate the aliens. And there's there's kind of more possibilities for the show. And of course, everybody's very good looking because it's the CW show that. There. There's the like, you know, it's not subtle. But it doesn't really have to be the, you know, Liz is the child of undocumented immigrants, and she comes in like it kind of opens up where she's stopped ordering questioned and the first seen is like an ice detention scene. Which is like a really shows you where the show is going to go from the get-go. And I I liked that they were kind of just so upfront about it. Because I felt as though, you know, rather than kind of like string you along and having it, you know, it's just to like put it out there. And and have it be like this crisis? That also is very true in relatable right now. It's not just a metaphor. Exactly. Yeah. Have the people who are like the conspiracy theorist. But are also like the aliens in quotes are going to take our jobs. We literally want to right. Right guy says. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's super interesting. And I really I definitely it's I find it really weird that the, you know, previous show whitewashed Liz when like why no present catching up with the original. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's so much more. You can talk about then like, you know, the stuff that her family is going through mirrors what the aliens are going through. It's just like it makes so much sense. And that was originally from the book. So I'm glad that they brought that stuff back 'cause I also love when people take a show, you know, doing something like kind of bringing in like the like really most horrible things that we're dealing with right now. And to just kind of talk about them, it's nice and like riff on them. And with John stuff. I mean, I think that we like a ni- call we love sci-fi and twilight zone type stuff 'cause it's a way to talk about serious things. You know, kind of in a in a more flexible and kind of fun way really blow outs. Oh, my deal is there's definitely that feeling to it. Like, I mean, it's obviously it's like a primetime soap on the CW, and it has all the fun of that. But also is you know, the dressing a lot of actual contemporary issues in not a preachy way, kind of a fun, John or you ways. Yes. Exactly, Riverdale it. Does it totally? What did you guys have any favorite alien or paranormal related things that you're into in the nineties when it was when it was all the rage. I mean, I loved independence day. Yes. I loved independence day very much identified with the stripper who just goes to the roof with her friend from the strip club who just goes down to stand on the roof with the other people in L A and be like alien. Yeah. Yeah. I think right now, especially like people would love for the aliens to come because things are bad on earth. And it would make sense in a way. I mean, I don't know why anyone would visit earth. Now. Like, it just seems like why net like you had all this time when things were going pretty, well, if aliens came out with you be like, oh, yeah. Okay. Why that's kind of why I liked a rival so much felt like an like an interesting like different angle on why lands might come here that they could be benevolent or like just sort of truly altruistic beans that don't think with their egos the way that human beings do. So we can't even like necessarily analyze. The aliens might come. But like, we won't even we can't comprehend right? We were also talking about because there was an article and life science about how the Drake equation, which said a people search for extraterrestrial intelligence, if you don't own how you know. That that that's sort of been the equation kind of like like philosophical way of thinking about the odds of of alien life being some and the odds not only of there being an intelligence, Liz Asian somewhere in the universe. But also the odds of us coming in contact with it, and I think like nobody knows what the actual Nino number or some of the Drake equation is. But it's obviously like meant to kind of communicate the fact that the chances are slim, so I think like the idea of an alien coming to earth and or interacting with high schoolers or fallen in love with. Like such kind. It's almost like it's almost like a religious experience because it feels. So the odds are so small or something or takes so much faith to even like idealize something like that I read so this article in life science was by an astrophysicist named Paul Sutter. And I thought it kind of breaks your brain the Drake equation. He was basically saying that it's useless because you can figure out the, you know, percent chance of all of these different variables like is their life in the galaxy on what planet like will it be intelligent life. But if you're missing any category, like if you don't have, you know, any kind of idea of whether something's possible in one category than it nullifies the entire result, basically because so many variables variables. So I think what's like interesting about the DEA of you know, kind of imagining what would happen if Ilias came to earth is that it's either probably it's like you have. No, there's no way of figuring out if it's probable improbable, or what it would look like, no matter how much you. Know about it until you figure it out. So you can take you know, you can have something like arrival where and that's to me like seems the most likely, but like also in some ways the least fun because because you don't get to have adventures with the air. Piece for you gonna be a little weird spore Iraq. Yeah. This I mean, it's fun to think about in a way. But then it's it's hard to really make a storyline outta that. Oh, I like the story lines just like the humans are exterminated immediately. And then it's just like what happens after that. When there are no humans lab. That's how I think about it. I'm like we shouldn't get to go to other planets, and like the that way will leave a decent planet. If anyone else finds it later late man, but I feel like humans, thank and then we'll be gone, and it'll go back to nature so fast. Right. But I think one of the things that's fun about the new Roswell New Mexico is that it's the idea that like there's a person who's an alien. I like that idea because I have a family friend who, you know, he's never heard of like all of these things that everyone's like, he's Thurs just a little slight difference. And it's fun, really? That is to be like seen alien is he like reasonable people. You can kind of keep the conversation rating because it's like, but that it. And more can Mindy kept up that say Morgan Mindy was honestly, I don't think I could free watch Mork and Mindy at the time. Like I've taught once on Twitter them Lena spam, who was also apparently a more can Mindy superfan. It was really the extent that she were a rainbow suspenders to school to know. Yeah. 'cause I was just like I 'cause more committee was a happy day. Spinoff. I've talked about this before. And I was just like isn't that weird that it was a happy day spinoff and also that the idea of the show about just a woman with an alien boyfriend was so popular for so long. But now, it just makes sense. It's just so interesting to see what people like what you kind of superimposed the idea of aliens onto in different times. Like, I feel like the idea of having an alien boyfriend feels very seventies. Just because of like, I don't know David Bowie who wouldn't want an alien boyfriend or if you're a girl misunderstood girl. You're right. Yeah. Who would be my boyfriend like, yeah. Other world. And that's totally what the I think the nineties Roswell felt like like to me at least, and I was kind of going back and watching some old episodes, and it's very much about being weird or being an outsider. And and, you know, having a secret and stuff like that. Wait, can we answer the red or green chili question? Yeah. We got to answer that what do you guys think to aliens? Like red chili or green chili or do they prefer both which is known as Christmas style. Oh, I like Christmas that I I'm gonna go with green chili I'm going to go in particular where the hatch Chile I express my opinions on hatch chilies before because they're they pop up at this one grocery store in Los Angeles. They feature them for like three months, and they just dank. So like, I I like Chili's, but you can overdo it chilly, and I was like these don't belong here. Nobody buys them. I've never seen anyone because they like it's too much going to the grocery store and everything has chilies in it. And it just seems like weird because there's no real reason for it never seen anyone by these chilies from this grocery stores. Just you don't to think the aliens are going to come the mall alien plants. I think it's to entice the it's a magnet aliens has smells because it's the I would say green hatch chilies doesn't like greenhouse chilies. But I switch where this giant. I have opinions. I personally prefer green chili, but I'm gonna. Christmas style because it's the best hot take. I think the aliens. Well, you know, little of everything always the best when the aliens like to experience all we have to offer. I don't know to imagine a green or a grey ref grave into into chilies in general in spicy things in general, what do you think they like soil, and I don't know no way the galaxy for the spicy flavor. Spicy spice porn is like over here to do our diners drive. Wait. Are you suggesting also that there might be like the entire corn conspiracy might be to feed the 'Lions funder percent chest. I okay, I'm back on corn. Again, I love anyway. But yes, so Roswell New Mexico will be premiering January fifteenth on CW Tuesday at nine eight central. This is a great episode guys. Yeah. It was fun. It was fun. Also test is wearing one of our own merchant. I am I didn't have time to really like get ready. And I was like I may as well represent. Thank you guys. So much listening to another episode of night, call if you have questions comments want advice have a favorite dessert have ever been to Russell New Mexico and wanna share a story about encountering alien life. Please give us a night. Call at two four zero four six night or a night Email at night, call podcast at mail dot com. Also, if you'd like to celebrate our birthday in February please come out to gold diggers bar in Los Angeles that Molly and ide- Jade with DJ go St. Jay, Emily, we all love. Gold diggers. Awesome bar last time. We brought a pumpkin pie and ate. It all time. We'll bring a Boston cream pie. We will. Maybe Emily will be there, though, more exciting, and I'm all be debut in my my new actual DJ name. Yeah. So. Amazing vinyl from Japan yet. Title. I'm gonna have you if February fifty evening so come out support night, call we'll probably have some shirts to sell and we'll be very happy to see. Everybody. This weeknight call is brought to you by Roswell New Mexico catch the all new series, Roswell New Mexico Tuesday at nine eight central only on the w or anytime on the free CW app.

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Trapping New Mexico with J.P. Wilson  Episode 95

Trapping Today

1:11:40 hr | 1 year ago

Trapping New Mexico with J.P. Wilson Episode 95

"Back in the first shed this is the trapping today podcast. I'm Jeremiah. Would it's great to be here and I'm glad you're here with me. This is episode ninety five. We are are closing in on one hundred episodes. That's pretty exciting. I can hardly believe it. I don't know if we'll do anything special for that or not. The trapping tape pike gas is brought to you by Koch. What's brothers lures K. A. T. E. R. O? S. Dot com trap smarter work harder enjoy the success that follows that's their motto over at Cots Brose and great trapping supply company. They've got a book. DVD's baits lures traps and basically everything you need to get started trapping big supporters of the podcast big supporters of the website trapping today dot com so those guys really I appreciate if you give them some of your business. they've got an excellent excellent customer service really knowledgeable guys real fast shipping and competitive prices so check out cops brose dot com also check out for harvesters auction where the world comes to buy wild for for harvesters is an auction house house. That's run by trappers for trappers. These guys really care and they really work hard to promote wild for so you know an auction house. It was a small auction house run by trappers. They're they're keeping our concerns in mind. When it comes to trying to sell for trying to get the most value trying to promote for for you know actually speaking of cops brose? I talked with Kyle. We had an interview over the phone. This week had actually really great conversation. We talked about a bunch a bunch of things including where we're at right now in the firm market and he talked about the importance of ranch for in driving the overall firm market an end there. There's good and bad in ranch for when it comes to you know what we do as wild for producers so the you know we do need that ranch for market but at the same time we also need to make sure that trappers are represented in the for market as well and I think for harvesters does has a good job in making sure that happens so for instance. I'm GonNa talk really quickly about this. for mark thing that they have going on for mark is a an independent comprehensive certification and traceability program that covers sustainability the animal welfare and dressing dying for so basically certification for a for and it's something that I think was driven by concerns concerns from buyers in the ranch for industry people were buying ranch for a but but it's just a case where I think. Fha really worked hard to make sure that wildfire producers weren't left in the back in the dust in we're in had maybe a more difficult time to sell our so when it comes to wildfire under firm ARC they say wild for because of the myriad of international laws ause federal state and provincial rules in place is already certified third party oversight already exists basically we are regulated by state state and local and federal government and all wild for that sold through auctions certified so all wildfire is certified when sold through the auction and as a part of the firm ARC system because it meets the following criteria it is science based their amounts of research behind wildfire ISO standards the International National Agreements Federal State provincial laws and regulations along with BMP's in the US and trap testing in Canada Third Party oversight the third party oversight already already exists with the rules laws and regulations as outlined above additionally the two auctions that sell while for have agreements with the Ontario Ministry natural resources is guarantees an additional layer of oversight and transparency all rules and agreements are already readily available online so basically for harvesters. I made sure that wildfire was going to be included in this whole traceability program and certification just another example where you know these you guys are looking out for us so I appreciate I appreciate those guys being supporters of the podcast and I appreciate you send them for two. FHA I I know that you will be happy. the auctions may not always go the way we want them to but they're gonNA treat you fair and and do the best they can to get get the highest price possible for all right. Let's talk about a couple of things you're going to be excited about tonight's interview. I think we're GONNA TALK TO JP Wilson about trapping in New Mexico and that's that's always exciting topic going out of state in trapping new species in a new area but I got a couple other things I wanted to cover so the podcast generals growing like crazy. That's a really exciting thing for me to see. There's a lot of you guys moon listening for a long time as well as New People finding this podcast every week and you can email me j rod would at g mail DOT COM J. R. O. D. W. uh-huh. Od at gmail.com if you've just discovered the podcast and you WanNa shoot me a little thank you a lot of people do that or ask me a question. let me know something. You'd like to hear more of or like to see covered. That's it's always fun to hear from me and I I hear from people every week and you know we're about double. The amount of downloads we were about Oh six months ago so we're closing in on seventy thousand downloads overall and and about seven to nine hundred on at the six week period per episode so that is just really really really good but I I do want to see a little more in terms of helping people find the podcasts. So you know things that you can do to help promote you know maybe mentioned mention it to your friends. If if you've got a friend traps and doesn't know about the podcast let them know may maybe we'll get a few more people listening in the biggest thing you probably do to help out is get onto I tunes and leave a rating and review and I don't ask for this very often. I have a little bit in the past but it is really a a good way to get the podcast boost it up in the rankings and a Lotta Times I tunes use it algorithm to determine which which podcasts they're going to promote. If you have really high rating and a lot of reviews that's GonNa bump the podcast up in in the category that it's looks like they have put us in. We were kind of in general sports and outdoor category now were in the Wilderness category. I believe that's what. It's telling pulling your apple podcasts telomere now and we've got a rating of four point nine out of five and eighty six ratings and and a bunch of different reviews so that's really good but I'd like to bump that up a little bit be nice to get a triple digits on those ratings so if you can do that that'd be awesome mm-hmm if you if you get onto apple podcasts and lever rate the podcast lever review that would just be great nude help more people find out about the podcast I I it would be cool to get some people that aren't necessarily trappers but they're interested in it to find out about the pike as maybe they're searching for a hunting podcast for instance or something gentle outdoors and all of a sudden trout this trapping today podcast comes up in and they click on it download it and start listening winning. Wow you know there's actually several people who have emailed me and said their this is their first year of trapping. They're just getting into it and so it's it's an exciting thing for me. We're always talking about how do we get more people into trapping how your crew more trappers and and we need to do these programs and we need to do this and do that and I've never been a believer that there's one single solution. We really got deep into this. If you listen to the podcast back when Kyle Cox interviewed me and we got into a little bit of my background and then we talked in the end you know at the end of the episode about you know how you know promoting trapping in in general and how how to do that with the right way to do that is it was a pretty deep conversation and I think I kind of tried to get the point across that just these these little small steps and people that want to trapper interested in trapping and may may not have all the information that they need to get going things like this podcast things like trapper men dot com and other trapping podcasts Aston other websites things like having a friend traps and tells me about it and takes you along those things go. Oh long way in helping people get going so little small steps to get more people trapping and I think we're headed in the right direction so leaving I tunes or even apple podcast review. I keep forgetting they changed their name to apple podcasts and you can also leave review if you listen and other replaces that they're oftentimes are opportunities to leave reviews there once place that's going in the wrong direction when it comes to trappings California and I think we all kind of know this California's kind of outweigh out on the outer edge when it comes to outdoors and hunting and fishing and trapping. They're Kinda an extreme case of the anti-hunting anti trapping anti consumptive outdoor use use agenda too California just passed a bill in the legislature that banned trapping in. It's not really a big surprise. California has this kind of chipped away in small pieces at trapping for many many years they've been trapping for certain species like Bob cats they've banned and certain types of trapping like the steel foothold trap and they have made it so difficult to the point where the state which is a huge state only he had like a hundred something trapping licenses sold the past few years so it wasn't very difficult for them. Ban Trapping because there weren't many trappers left argue argue or fight against it and the the for industry in California was essentially almost dead to begin with so it didn't take much to kind of tip it over the edge edged. It's incredibly unfortunate and we we all should take notice as trappers and hunters in other states that this could happen to us in the future. It's it's something to be concerned about. I think it's not something I'd be worried about out in most other places however if you live in a place in a state like Connecticut or New Jersey we've we I know trappers who have both of those areas this. This is something that maybe is a little bit concerning to you so it's something to think about and it's it's something that we need you to be considering anytime we communicate trapping with members of the public and I wanted to share an email that I got this week about a study that has just completed by a group that that basically specializes in surveys in the hunting fishing trapping crowd responsive management has been doing surveys on public opinion on hunting fishing and trapping for decades decades and this is kind of a recent update one of the surveys that that they've done regularly to track changes over time on public opinion anion and it looked at approval rates among the American public for hunting fishing and trapping activities in in general it was overall pretty good ed in terms of the public opinion I'm looking at the graph here showing the public approval of Ligo hunting from nineteen ninety five to two thousand nineteen and basically the public's approval of hunting has slightly improved over time believe it or not back in the nineties we had approval rates in the seventies seventy two three to seventy the eight percent and now we're at about eighty percent public approval of hunting and disapproval is in the fifteen eighteen to twenty percent range so twenty nineteen eighty percent of people approved of legal hunting thirteen percent disapprove and then you've got kind of guys that are in the guys and gals in the gray area so that that's pretty good but really what where we find a lot of information nation that kind of helps to put this into perspective and helps us use this information in in a positive positive way is why people approve or disapprove of our activities and the reasons people approved for hunting really really reveals a lot about the public's opinion in general so whether you agree or disagree with this I think most of us would disagree with this. The public has a wide range of reasons that they approve for hunting for instance on the high end eighty five percent of people approve of hunting wanting to protect humans from harm an eighty four percent approve of hunting for meat so people don't mind the fact that we hunt animals for meat meet on the other end of the spectrum only half of the public approves of hunting for Sport and twenty nine percent approved for hunting as for a trophy so would that tells us is that regardless of what's going on in our heads as hunters. you know wanting to to harvest large trophy size animals the public sees that in a different way that we do even though we may be looking for a big animal but we're also harvesting the meat. We're using meet. Were eating it. It doesn't matter for them. The fact that what they see is a rich trophy hunter that's out there for just for for the thrill of the kill and there there are occasionally people that do that incredibly small percentage of does not represent the hunting public but people see that you know when people think hunters people aren't exposed and don't know any hunters. That's what they see this bloodthirsty he killer. That's what they think about us. think of trappers as in auto cases so let's move onto trapping this same survey a approximately excellently fifty two percent of the American public approves of legal trapping thirty one percent disapprove so trapping is is is in a much more tenuous position in terms of wildlife management as it compares to hunting and let's look at the reasons people approve or disapprove of trapping eighty four percent of the people who approve trapping approve of trapping as part of a restoration programme seventy three percent of those approve of trapping for subsistence and to control while they've populations seventy two percent approve trapping for food food on the very bottom end only thirty five percent approve of trapping to make money thirty percent for for clothing and twenty eight percent for recreation so we were really in a vulnerable position because regardless of the reasons that that you are I trap the public sees trapping as more of a commercial endeavor than than they do hunting. It's it's a very very very interesting very potentially troubling situation where you look at the reasons you trap and I look at the reasons I trap and we look at what the public thinks why we do what we do and you know we get into the entire discussion on ethics and motivations for doing certain things in it just gets incredibly blurry you could we could go on for hours in our on why we do what we do. What's right for you and what's right for me? it's it's the bottom line is that when we're talking to people about trapping we need to be cognizant of what's going on in their minds if they haven't been exposed to trapping before and and we need to show people the positive benefits of trapping we need to mention the fact that trapping is used as part of a restoration programs grams for wildlife trapping is important for subsistence for a number of people. Yes we need to make money but that that money can oftentimes put food food on the table for families that don't make a lot of income certain times of the year you know that I can be pretty important so so we just need to be careful of how are we communicate to people who who are not really exposed to trapping and we need to expose more people trapping because let's be honest for responsible trappers who are falling the rules and regulations if you take somebody out who's never been exposed to trapping and you take them long on on the line and they see what you do and why do it. It's nothing like what they thought in an almost every case people think it's way worse than it actually. He is so it's something to to consider into think about and and just keep that in the back your mind as you're talking trapping with people and as interacting with with other members of the public because public opinion on whether we like it or not is a very important shapes how people perceive the things is shapes how they vote and really. Ma Shape the future of trapping in the United States and I've said it before if it all blows up in the state that I live I'm just moving Alaska. I'm GONNA find a place to trap out there anyway with that. Thanks for listening into into my little introduction rant. Let's get into the interview with J. P. Wilson. I think you'll enjoy it. We gotTA talk about dropping out of state. That's that's obviously in New Mexico especially the Big Passion Yours Yeah how how how'd you get into trapping out of state and where's that going from there well I when I got out of high school I used to talk with Kyle cats back and forth thin I think I'd wrote one article through trappers world at that point and Seen Kyle at the New York State Convention and everything everything and I was on the phone with him one night and I told him that I just got out of the duck blind and he said Oh I didn't know that you hunting ducks and he said do you WanNa come out and hunt ducks with me and Kyle lives on the Mississippi flyway and I live in upstate New York and I'm shooting Mallard and wood ducks little ponds yeah so got a plane ticket and all that stuff went out and we were dot com and then you know looking back on it now. It was fun hunt ducks I sent I was a teenager. I've been a Beretta semiautomatic and I didn't take my gun out with me. I had a of his using callans Mossberg pump so basically I had a single shot to me because by the time the duck was gone before I realized that I had actually up so and I I don't know I think I killed maybe two or three docks out there. The whole time I was young used to my own gun switched me over to a pump it was it was just kind of a little bit out of my element but that was one of the best trips that I've ever done in my life. It was mostly just to be able to pay Kyle callen to just to talk about different things and Cayo showed me all of his is out of state pictures and stuff and then I just was dying to go and the stories from Neil and I wanted I was always water trapper growing up after my father moved he bought a house on the SARANAC river and so I had five miles river trout and for people that haven't trapped rivers before it's not just like you know like five miles road like you. Have you have five miles of solid trapping. I mean you know you've you've got potential to you. Know I mean five miles is nothing crazy or whatever but you can catch a dozen make and maybe you know hundred routes or so oh and fifty beavers depending on what you've got and then the banks possibility for Bob Cat which had not that first year whatever but I did catch I bob cousy off the bank of the river. fishers coons that was just amazing when he moved there and I spent all my time on on that river but anyways back to the traffic out of state and stuff so the stories from Neil kneeling Kyle I really wanted to go. I didn't know what I wanted to do. This is where I was going on with that so water trapping anyways when I got out of school I wanted to traffic that was what I really wanted to do and we own camp in southern adirondacks about three hours from where I lived and it's there's hardly anything there in the middle of nowhere and for whatever reason I thought that this was going to be the best mink line in the world so I went out there and I think caught eight Minkin a week but that was like there was no coons uh-huh I had forty boxes out at that time you could you could have the ground sets in New York and you still can go without all the crazy restrictions and stuff but and I was hoping to catch catch Martin and everything out there sorry. I didn't catch any Myron in a week. I didn't catch any Fisher in a week and I caught those eight mink and I think I had one coon and this is my this was my long line here here. I am eighteen years old away from home. I was catching you know thirty seen what these other people are catching. Yeah you like have all these expectations and your mind and you go from when you were in school catching fifteen make in a year and that was trapping two hours. There's a day and now I've got all day in a week eight so I was pretty well disgusted with it and I ended up coming home. Oh merrily and I love I never caught Fox coyote or anything before and and my girlfriend at the time my wife now went to forget if it was a for takes this convention or whatever the previous this summer and I'd met Scott Welsh there and we ended up eating dinner with Scott and his wife and just talk like crazy and Scott autographed book and gave it to elicit because it listen man be pretty cool to trap coyotes rather than mink you know because she's used to I used to drag her along so can let and everything else and yeah. It'd be pretty cool to trap coyotes. Andre Ground is pretty much. I think what she was getting at the time but anyways so Scott we used to call him captain red beard and all kinds of stuff he's gave her a book consigned it Captain Redbeard and I came home from trapping came back to my normal brooks and they were we're all set up. You know it didn't really have my pick of the spot yet and competition was there at that time that was when we had our little room so there was people you're catching me. 'cause they know they were thirty forty dollars main NAFTA that year yeah so like twenty ish maybe a little before that that would have been Dan yeah. I graduated two thousand ten so it's basically like as the prices started declining year so a lot of my spots were also up already and I just didn't didn't really have the places to go. I was trying to branch out and it took me until almost thanksgiving to catch. I think I was at twenty nine make and again. I was like disgusted. I quit my job uh-huh full-time trapper maker Yeah Yeah Yeah quit my job so I can trap and here I am like over a month into it and I've got twenty nine mink yeah so just happened to look there's buck and I picked it up and I said. Do you know what I know where I could get permission on the farm so I went and asked the fire and he said yeah go ahead. You catch every cone you want. If you get a Fox or coyote oh you're yeah go ahead and go for it. and that's what I did. It took me I think it took me a week. You can cut my first Red Fox and then I ended up catching another three Fox's out of that set that I was trying to catch a kyle and not knowing anything thing. I didn't think that we had hardly any coyotes around. There must be only Fox's. I ended up catching my first Bob cat the year after out I was going to be a Fox trap or now I didn't catch any Fox's that got forty coyotes. It's so I I learned that I was just happened to be in one place where apparently they're the Fox's didn't have any pressure from the coyotes and there was is a family of them but then you're out trapper. Then all of a sudden it was a Cayo chapter and it's still wanting to go out of state and and while the first year I ended up with forty one coyotes for a total I think I caught to Bob cats at year. I did catch a Gray Fox. Coyote killed but anyway so you're expanding your realizing Kinda China The New York State. Maybe wasn't where you needed to be solely to be a full-time trapper yeah so Hi I ended up I ended up finding another job going back to work and stuff because you know I realized yeah. I'm not going to catch a hundred thirty dollar mink and be able to just you now live off this or whatever I knew that I wasn't going to be able to live off of it. I plan on you know having a Mo- Lonzo ball stuff yeah so then when I ended up talking with Kyle more and more and ended up buying his New Mexico oh dvd but she talked about on your podcast before and he was not lying I wore that first. DVD and they had to buy another but really at all kinds of questions questions for him on all kinds of questions and I know Kyle touched on it in the podcast before but he ended up giving me some information on the town where he went just the name of the town and a phone number to a local trapper in that town and it took me quite a while to get a hold of him. I kept leaving a message with his his wife and saying that I'm interested rested trapping out. There and I don't know if it was the way that the message was getting related but he just didn't he didn't know somebody from New York was calling them for just couldn't the put it together and finally I called any answered and mandate up on the phone for like four hours really just you know talk. Trap happened Did he know much about Chapman yeah he he trapped since the firm he was Okay quite a bit older like most most people are in the trap and Industry pretty much. He was he's in his early sixties now but he obviously didn't drop his whole ranch inch then no he he's not a rancher okay. This was a contact of another trapper yeah in that area he he was actually He's working oilfield this whole life and basically he trapped for he was never big into say I mean you know he'd catch fifty two year somewhere in their thirty two fifty he did it for Christmas money for his family and basically is why why he trapped you know gas money so they could go fishing and all kinds of stuff but once once I got a hold of him as kind of like I said Kyle helped me out tremendously and then once I got a hold of fraud and that really helped put all the pieces together yeah so then so then you're like. I'm going yeah load up the track Yup. That's exactly I was I was twenty years old and I I had forty one under my belt that was whatever a handful of foxes and a couple Bob cats and probably seven one thousand hours of chaos New Mexico DVD but my girlfriend at the time but my my wife came with me she did we got a springer Spaniel that was pretty much a pop then still have them the three of us. I got into my Toyota's WHO's Komen just drove over two thousand miles and that was trapping yeah. That's what we wanted to do. The permission lined up for the ranch it was it was public land or private. How how did you go well? I I was going to meet up with Fred out there and he was gonNA show me a bunch of places where I could go whether it just be one ranch which ranches out there go by sections square miles acreage forty takers. I think one one section is one square mile so it's and that's that's how they go by. They don't go by you know we got a three hundred undertaker fire which is big in the east when permission on four or five hundred Acre five minutes like wow. This is a huge property. Yes nothing no it's nothing at all. It's not even a section and we drove all the way out there and ended up Fred Ed had to go in for surgery just a routine thing to get his gall bladder taken help while we were on our way out there and he said I'll I might be a little sorry but I'll show you around. We'll be got out there and know nobody was around. It was like a couple of days couldn't get a hold of anybody and I looked at my wife and I said we set traps. I said we just drove this fire. I don't we're going to set traps like no matter what and ended up staying in the closest hotel. It was like forty miles away. We didn't really have any other options so we stayed in the hotel for a couple of days and then we finally ran into somebody and they they said Oh yeah we've been looking for you and they just tiny tiny little town yeah yeah. We've been looking for you. He's they had some complications vacations with the surgery and he's on a ventilator. They're not sure if he's GonNa make it. Wow kinds of stuff and the there was a friend end of has he said they talk with his wife and everything and stay in their house and I said no no I can't knew that and they said no honestly I met the guy in person no never even met him you know and but that once you get out west that's pretty much how everybody is the small towns up yeah they will do anything for anybody and They said that they would much rather. Have somebody stay in their house right now to keep an eye on things than to have you stay in the hotel trust yeah you weren't kidding and that's you know that's all that I could think about the whole time I was out. There was please. Don't let somebody break into this place. How am I gonNA talk my way out of that? Nobody way worse than the beaver and the on the Oh yeah guardrail hundred yeah it was worse so we we did ended up staying there because we didn't really have a choice against new hotel the whole time yeah we're in oilfield country so hotels are booked up yeah. You're the cheapest hotel you can find is a hundred and thirty nine gs and you just barely have hot water. There is not much of a hotel so we it was good we got out of the hotel ended up scanning in one of his poll Byron's. We didn't have any heat or anything a lot of people. Don't you catch for actually the first day we seventeen traps. It took twelve hours to set seventeen apps first day but they're basically it's those public we we will end. We went by a road atlas map one that you can buy in any of the stories or whatever New Mexico and on those maps that shows state it'd be eleven. We're trying to figure out where we're going by that. I didn't have GPS at the time. I don't think on X. even existed no no didn't well. They're called hunting. GPS MAPS my my my wife's brothers but it college buddies at the guy that started that company Oh yeah that's why I get all the free shirts the yeah they call it they were in school and they just decide site the guy wanted to start this thing and it was hunting. GPS and and it's just the best the absolute best thing that and they've ever it came up with that is the better tool than any trapping thing that they sell any anywhere yeah especially for somebody out of state. I mean that's if they people are worried about you. Know investing in certain tire or something like that. I would whatever it is for next year. What is it like thirty dollars a year? Yeah yeah well to help out of this. I will make some phone calls so you started that in in basically you look at a dorm map. Yes yeah DeLorme exactly I've got bill. I'm here you drive and then you're just looking for because you you didn't have a lot of Bob cat experience under your belt at the time so how'd you how'd you figure out where I'm GonNa make a set s just we drove. I mean we just put miles on and we looked and looked all kinds of country and it's going from the adirondack. Mountains to the sand hills in New Mexico is you know you're not. You're not any like nothing's even comparable. You know yeah but I don't remember who it was if it was Johnny Tort for Kyle or whoever but it's the location is the same it's just the terrain changes yeah. It's it's Eric. Martin told me this morning he said take this ground here. Take the trees off. That's what it is out west. It's the same stuff go. The trees get in the way a little bit but essentially the the landscape is the It's just like saying that my dad's always says you need to be able to see the forest through the trees to be able to you know as long as you need to be able to adapt to a and it didn't it didn't take that long for me but like I said I did have seven thousand hours on Kyle's. DVD's so where you've seen a lot of the locations and okay he sent then here. He's there yeah yeah the other thing that really blew my mind out. There is the amount a pack routes and when I come to an intersection and it was like all four corners had their holes and they look like the most perfect turtle when you see one of those little pack rat holes little low spot in front of it and the the first one I drove bindings somebody's trapping here and then I got out and like it's nothing that I would ever do if I knew that somebody was there but I had to stick my foot and every one of those low spots this nature if there was a trap there because as we started driving tolls everywhere millions of dirt holes there holes. We're GONNA work here and they were awesome. You know the right time of year but the dirt hole is more natural out there than than anything I mean they're everywhere but so it's any when we ended up like seventeen traps APPs and yeah we sat seventeen traps. I took twelve hours boy. Your wife is patient. Oh yeah when it I mean it was all new to her to have the same you know we got lost at the end of the day and some people say well. How how'd you get lost out there and it's like how how can you not in when you're in that oilfield country? There's more roads it's just unbelievable unbelievable. There's such a network of roads out there. It's it's hard to explain to somebody that hasn't been in them but you can go you can go. There's more miles of road out there unpaved just to track roads and then what they're paid rose in New Mexico. I mean it's just everywhere you. There's all kinds of access but it's knowing no one where to go and how to get out of there. we we were back in I don't probably I don't know thirty miles or so and missed one of our terms and then it was just just a network rose and trying to trying to figure a way out and back and we did have a GPS for a road China back our way out to figure out how to get back to that road. What direction is a and that I don't even Garmin? GPS or whatever it is you know when you're actually on the road to your thing. She sits there and spend your but but yeah seven seventeen sets the first first day and the following check and I was I was pretty down on myself and at that point we were still in the hotel. We had met up with anybody to kind of reassure us that you know you got a place to say so you're Kinda like man I came all the way out here invested all this time and money and now I don't even know I I'm like well. We can afford to stay in that hotel and and go back for like ten days yeah it is what it is. I said but we're going to be here for ten days. No matter what is just too far to go and then at first check out of seventeen sets we had four coyotes really felt better. Where were you sitting just sitting there holes or you set flat sets both I'm a big believer in whatever the location kind of lends itself to be. It'll basically it's already made like it's pretty much already made in my head. When I get out of the truck it's just it's right there like that screams for their whole and I know some guys call them flat assets in post sets and you know baited clump sets well yeah whatever I'm dirt holes in flat sets in there ah they might be a little different or whatever but to me? There's there's basically two sets and when it's Bob Cats. There's a walkthrough to add into the into the mix but yeah so there's pretty much three kinds of Predator sets in my mind so that first year were you targeting coyotes or both guys and Bob Gates. I want into catch New Mexico Bob Cat in the worst way just because there's more coyotes on that ground yeah yeah it was I was definitely in Cayo country but every every day I would look at my wife and say boy I just want to catch one New Mexico New Mexico Bob Cat and we were. We were doing pretty good on the coyotes. Once it's once we've kind of figured out a real and had established in a fair amount of sets out the first year the most amount amount of traps that I had out at one time was eighty cents and would learn all the country and having to scan in the Diet no he we had to be back at Selma Selma of a reasonable time but we were still I think that first year we had one day we had eight coyotes. We had a couple of days seven couple of days at six I didn't have enough stretchers. We had to go buy a freezer. It was just it was a huge learning experience to say the least and then lost my train of thought I thought it was just going to get good pause. Remit looked off into the distance so anyway back to the New Mexico bobcat. That's where because you're piling up the coyotes now but the whole time in the back of your mind is like we're those like five seven hundred cats at the time they were yeah and it wasn't even so much the money it was just that I wanted to I just wanted to catch one. I mean cats at home. You know don't we don't have a ton of cats out in New York. You know you can if you catch one a year. Are you did good some years. You might catch five or six. It all depends on what you've got but I remember that I new Mexico Bobcat we came up over this ridge and this cat was just blended into the sage perfectly right there and I sat right as we came over the hill and I told I've told Neil told a lot of people I said whenever I said right before right before catch a cat my hand is my hand that nobody believes me and going up man my hand and that was that was like where it all started and I swear to God the I ca- that Neil Cotton New Mexico were driving down the road and I'm going like this. I go scratching my hand. I don't know what it is so the anyways I'm we're driving up that little to track Roden. Just keep scratching upon Miami man. This is killing me. Come up over that Ridge Elicit looks at me and says well. There's your first Mexico Bob Cat. I didn't see it really come on. I'm and I'm looking at my satin satin. It's just up on top of the bank to there's nothing wrong with that didn't go anywhere to drag wrapped around that one piece of sage and was talked down right behind the back of it. I didn't see until I was right on top of it and they're jumping up and down and the same reaction from the I got one today as hasn't changed. That's awesome so you you basically just took a big risk and said I'm going to do it and worked out. You could've turned around and said the guy guys on the hospital. I don't stay. Don't get any money that was held between your legs and go back East like like I told Kyle. Why I've you know on him so much about information about going out there? I did not want to go cold rolling. I didn't want to have a trip like I had my camp in the around axe and just kind of you know the there was a lot more cost involved in this and I really didn't want you know fall flat on my face and when I got out there that was pretty much like where my mine was at is my biggest fear in I'm living at right now and it all all ended up working out but so have have you been back to New Mexico every year since then every year but one my my wife and I got married we went on white tail hot in Texas. I'm not a big deer hunter at all never been just not just not my thing not patient love to bird. There's a cannon absolutely loved a bird hunting in thirty five off goes again in early. Today probably go off again yeah. I can't sit in a tree stand either but she's a dear enter then yeah she the she didn't trap with me. The first year that we went out to Mexico the first year that I caught a hundred forty of those to her credit because she did trapping second year really yeah can't stand to watch her make us that she makes a step up but it worked apparently yes she was. She was beaten me that second year I think she had like seventeen and I had eight coyotes or something like that like within the first week there whatever it was and it really wasn't saying well with me and then one one day we cut nine and every single one of them and it's a friendly competition or whatever but she was wild day nine in coyotes and that guy every one of them not a single one was hers but we have a lot of fun but she was. She's definitely been my my best trap and partner I've ever had but yeah. That's pretty cool so you you you you keep going back and it's a I'm guessing that you've expanded in met some ranchers here's and got permissions on places more effective as you've got. You've been there more yeah. I got to the point where trapping in the sandhills coyotes not probably try and partner eight there. It is uh not to say that I got sick of catching coyotes but I just I wanted something different. After a few years of and the the best year that I had on cats out there along with the coyotes was six in that sand hill country three and I wanted to find more cats to looking for like more rim rock sagebrush type country yeah a little bit a a little bit higher elevation more into the mountains so kerr looking for her bottom something you know cat country it just get get out of the sandhills basically see some different country I also kind of like the idea of not having the skin that that many coyotes in a short amount of time like I said I would I would gladly go do it again but it's probably better now that this kind of hundred well. What are hey there are they? No no they're they are western. coyotes is the color that they're great out to be a lot of them are flats. The two I oh yeah part of the reason for me wanting to go to more southern New Mexico was I didn't I was leaving snow noticed. Yeah I mean I didn't want. I was leaving the freezing conditions I wanted I wanted to go and travel. I didn't WanNa you know struggle with freeze and sets but and there are times that you still do I mean in it. The weather can change an incident out there. I've dealt with snow freezing rain inches of rain out there which makes roads. It's pretty much impossible. It's Gumbo there can be. It's all depends on where you're at but down there whether can yeah I mean one time I trapped in the Sacramento's we never even left the camp for two days yeah just the rancher said I said when when it rains here you you can't go yeah did that. You just sit there dries out fast when to win. The two days is because it rained leaned again the second year which you know it's like oh good. It's starting to dry up but that when he that one rancher told me that he said you can't go and I'm thinking to myself enough. I'm going to go. I tried to go and retired suspend you put chains on change just the other layer they've among the way that they grade a lot of those roads out there. all the roads are down in you know they just keep running the blade over the top of them so a lot of those roads they're down in so when the water gets in them they can't does do soaks up and I remember trying to go like I was going to. I had to do something we we laid around there for a couple of hours and I said I multiple go check a few trapped and there was this just a little bit of a hill and Gumbo and the way those banks are might truck was just like a pinball from one side the other other trying to climb up the hill yeah bounced off the banks both sides all the way back down to the bottom of the hill then we couldn't get turned around I did I slept in the truck an I angle like that in the past across the Missouri River and trying to climb back up to get out of there and there's still too much rain and it did the same exact thing you're describing just stop there. I sit there and just kinda slow. You're on the track and this is about noontime the next day when we could finally climb up the that year in Sacramento it was me and my buddy fred that year we were trying to pull traps You're going to stay there for three weeks. there was rain and then snow in the forecast. We ended up that happened on day. Fourteen day day seventeen we were finally able to get out and start pulling droughts. We wanted to stay there for twenty one checks whether in the forecast we were just going to lay around so we were trying to get everything pulled on that seventeenth day and there was this pretty steep hill in this corner and it was right in the sun though Fred said boy the only way to know is try but it was like a thirty foot drop can be scary the only way to nose to try it and pretty and I've always been this way if I'm not busy like I'm ready to go home. It doesn't matter where I'm like if I'm not trapping every day I don't WanNa just hang out in a camper. You won't be doing something yeah so I'm GonNa try. We almost else made it to the top of it and the whole front of that truck slid over we had Algeria limbs pignon limbs everything coming through the windows of the truck because they just started to go and there was nothing that I could do. I slammed the truck in reverse and I just matt it it to the floor. Yeah that's what you gotTa do and I still don't know how because we couldn't see anything. We're just ray over the edge and all the brush juniper's. There's everything and somehow the truck came back out up on top of the road. I don't know like I really don't know what happened happens. All of a sudden we can see again. We're at the base of the hill still still facing up the hill yeah but I I don't know you sit there for a while. Uh well then then I ended up walking like half a mile to go get a couple of cats since I've seen guys do that. They're coming coming down a hill and he said if you if you start sliding can you just got it. Yeah you have to the only way to get out of it if you if you hit the brakes and you just oh yeah you don't WanNa hit the brake in stuff. It's for like people in the east. You know I've been in a lot of clay stuff in New York. There's nothing like it. There's honestly nothing like it's a it's crazy to think that you literally don't go anywhere so when you take Neil out there I think that was my third treptow. Neil been after me to go and trying to think we should probably pug that book to my lifestyle is my pay two thousand nineteen yeah I think he sold out now. He is sold out the but yeah it's one hundred eighty pages of Neal's trapping experiences and JP chapter in there that's what a history there yeah. It should be a pretty good read but neil after me to go for quite a while Lyle and my was actually on the second year out there on our way back. my wife got accepted in nursing using school we found out on the way back and that is why she couldn't go the third year and she was pretty wild about it but I remember I called up Neal and all that I said it's time Neil. He said I'll be ready hilarious because he knew exactly exactly what I meant. He always answers the phone the same way. JP Wilson and I said it's time that was that was that I'll be ready but you you sleep in the truck. He I've heard bits and pieces of that no we the year Neil we slept in cinder block building with no installation like one of the coldest years on record ever that part of New Mexico we got out there and the whole the whole ride out and talent. Neil you know it's this was there. Was this one you decide to go up in the higher elevations and get after cats. No this was San hose okay and that was that was a big thing for Neil to is that neal. You'll never caught one hundred coyotes single season. I think he was like ninety six or something like that but we never caught one hundred single season and I said well hopefully we can do that again but so i. I'm telling him the whole way out. It's like playing in the sandbox. You know your bed and just kick your he'll need to take your hand. You just mashed. There's again and again Dan you just you know mashed. Bowie had thirty hours of driving or more to talk silver. We're going on you know about how nice the conditions are in the ground never freezes and to we hit we hit Fort Worth Texas and there's a schedule snow on the ground we started going through. Abilene doesn't seem right right a little bit of snow on the cactus on the little prickly pears said I've never seen this before and then you go through Rangers pass which is you gain a bunch of elevation there in taxes and they're selling the road. I'm like this doesn't happen now here and we we get a little bit further and further into west access and there's inches of snow and then we get into new eastern New Mexico and there's feet of stone they've got graders out there and they're bleeding all the snow the center of the road and they don't know what to do with no they don't get that yeah exactly they ended up with one of the worst blizzards that they've ever had got take eighteen inches of snow but the big thing is the drifts yes. There's nothing they don't have the trees. They'll have anything to really stop. It just goes until it does stop CONNECTI- There was some drifts that were six feet so and with that much moisture ground low freeze out there when it's cold enough we had a uh no single digit mornings from one was nine degrees and eleven green eleven degree day and it took about it took about a week for it to actually out there which is pretty much unheard of right usually two three days since gone yeah so it but yeah we dealt with all kinds of freezing conditions. I didn't bring any antifreeze with me because I hadn't had a reason to before. we were making Salt Water Honor Brien and spray in Spain constantly remaking sets Yep and actually the first the first day this was my third year out there it took US twelve hours to put in thirty two sets trying to figure out where we could actually get to because of the snow yeah and and two guys that's a lot of work yeah so it was it was a struggle though but we ended up they moved pretty good. We had nine coyotes at first check and then we were able to get some more sets out as the snow started to melt they'd get my truck buried out there one day and we were driving. We were the only ones out there though because everybody was you know not used to driving in the snow win everything and there was one one spot that snowdrifts was up to the windshield. Just it was through through it. Yeah it was down. It was down in this this drought that ran for like six miles and the always been good for Bob Cats and they told me I said we've got to get in here. And of course there's like the one like it's bare ground on the other side and there's Adrift Freight at the One spot we gotta get into. We headed like forty but so you guys yours did alright considering the circumstances yeah yeah actually that that year was the best show that I've ever had on coyotes out there. I think the cold temperatures had a big played a big part in moving having more not that it was it was a crazy amount more than the year previous my wife and I caught a hundred in twenty one days and then Neil and I ca- hundred and eleven eighteen yeah so it was a a little bit better for sure but in in after that you moved into more of the Bobcat yeah after that point I don't I want to say that I was sick. WHO's getting coyotes but I also don't really haven't really missed it? You know you catch one day and it's five minutes to skin it and I do the Nevada style stretch and all that so you're another forty five minutes with belly yeah all dependent and Borax and all that kind of stuff uh-huh so I make probably more work out of it than what it needs to be but I try to make everything look nice but yeah ever since then I basically been looking for cats you know different mountain ranges and seeing some different parts of the state and you know last year we fifteen cats and fourteen days we stumbled stumbled into a bunch of them. You know just happened to work out. That's one of those places where I wish that I could scout for that. Yeah and you know really put some foot working because you could go back and have the exact opposite yeah you know now. That was also another cold last year. It was a cold role in trip so you just last year just went to a brand new place you'd never traveled for and looking back on it. Now that I this year was the most fun I've ever had trap and you know it was just there were so many things so many obstacles and at the time it was when I actually when I left it at first I said I'm never going back again. Like it was really Oh yeah there were some so much stuff that went on and different scenarios IOS and we had somebody say that we were piling up all of our the skin carcasses rate in the front lawn and there was nothing there but it was just more added drama to this situation and the need need him but after that first year. I wasn't sure if I'd ever go back and I've been back pretty much every percents about going back next year I don't think so we just my wife and I just had a baby and it's it's different I love being a dad and I part of it is I would hate to leave for that at long time. It's also would make it a lot easier on my wife. I did stay yeah so maybe show she might. She probably wouldn't mind eventually. I mean I definitely will be going out again but yeah once once. It's my daughter gets a little older and a little bit easier for sure. She's probably GonNa come with me so that's awesome so one of the best pieces of advice ace I've heard recently is if you want to trap if you WanNa be trapped these days and you really young ambitious and you WanNa get into finding occupation where you can work seven to ten months out of the year and then take the time off trapping. That's the way they do it and it's pretty good advice. Thank you can't do it personally but if you can have if you could take big box time off like that I'm I'm a heavy equipment operator and where I'm at in northern part of New York state. That's you know if if you work eight months out of the year you had a great year working nine that was an awesome year I mean we get such bad winters and very comparable. I'm sure to what what you're worked at Thanksgiving and you're doing good where we're at yeah so yeah normally I can I can make until about in Christmas time somewhere in there so pretty yeah pretty similar but and then you just can't work. I mean it's it's hard for the people fathom that like out west you know right like the grounds frozen and succeeded snow on top of that yeah. We're done worked for an excavating company. It's yeah it's it's just not cost effective to do it. It's worth shutting down and it's hard tied to explain that to people that I've never you know been around that before. They think you know you get laid off man. You're you're you're in a bad way right now and it's just part of the game is part of it yeah this you know northeast corner of the US. It's is what it is yeah. So what's your thoughts on the future of trapping industry. Were you know there's kids here but we're Kinda. We're pretty young demographic here. Compared to most of the ten dis yeah That's the thing the kids the kids are here. Will they be here when they're our age. You know what I mean if there was half of them I think that'd be great right but I was talking with Neil about it earlier in the hardest. The hardest thing is I agreed with him that people people definitely need to be educated a bell. You know the facts of tapping but what we have working against us is it's people's emotions it's not you can feed them. All the facts the truth that they want it doesn't matter at the end of the day it's not it's all based off their emotions. That's p Yeah Pita and the humane society and that's what they do. That's it's like how we were talking about marketing and stuff before the podcast I mean that's it's. They know what they're doing. I mean that's their attacking people's emotions nations yeah absolutely we make decisions as humans based on things many things that have nothing to do with the logic and in common sense in and that's the tough part about it yeah. It's it's tough I do. I feel like there's guys like AP Wilson that in Cole Porter's the same way and I feel like I was the same way that were predisposed to trappers like we're off and we had this mindset like all all we needed to have somebody to help us along yeah and and I hope that we're going to be the guys that will help these youngsters along you know and okay half the half of these. These people probably three quarters of these people. They'RE GONNA have no interest in in treadmill. They'll understand it bill. They won't think bad about trapping because they have good experiences. They know trappers. I there's there may be a quarter of them. That would be really good trappers and we'd be would love trapping the need. Maybe just the extra little push. They see that trap hanging up in the garage in in have that old timer come in and say hey you wanna come out and run the line with me. Let's let's go. That's really a common theme like you had like Paul grimshaw. I talked to guys all the time that guy I saw that trap. I wanted to be a trapper. That guy took me to that next step and then once you get there you go no if you want it. You can figure it out exactly right especially today online there so that's like you know another I can't I can't leave it completely out. I guess gases I also ruined one of Scott welches. DVD's but it's you know there's if if you can set your mind to it and you have a good work out that if you know if numbers is what you're after there's so much information out there so you would then within the first year. You should come close in the second year. You should be able to do what you WANNA do that. First year is the learning curve but I mean you you. That's that's somebody that is going to dive right into it. Is You know when I when I was in school. I used to work summer jobs so I could buy traps yeah and have enough gas money so I could do it. That's all that I did. I forget who it was. Somebody told me at one point that you know there's GonNa come a day where you're going to have a family and you're going to be able to do all this stuff and I said no exact they'll never happen yeah. you know but like at that at that point in my life. It was like you know I'm this is I'm here. I'm I'm going to trap you know for the rest and I am going to trap for the rest of my life Yeah I love to go out west the thrill new country being out there. I think that that's something that is in certain people's. DNA need to go. You know it's hard. It's hard to explain to some people can't fathom the facts you drive three thousand miles to go catch Bob cats. There's people that that never go further than three hours from where they grew up your life. I don't know how they do it. I mean they're so there's so much out there whether whether you trap or whatever I mean. I can't believe that people just don't want to see it. You know all right cool any other thoughts just go back. Where'd you go tyler tyler freely you leak rather people around here listen to scare them now J. awesome thanks for thanks for agreeing to be on here and scrape talk with you y-you till

New Mexico Neil New York kyle Bob United States J. P. Wilson Bob Cat Kyle Fox California Bob Cats apple Mexico Fred Ed Dan New York State Cots Brose Martin
Lets Move - Live in New Mexico -- Hal Logsdon

Move or Improve

26:00 min | 1 year ago

Lets Move - Live in New Mexico -- Hal Logsdon

"We serve almost three million patients seven thousand healthcare providers and every single hospital in the Hudson valley, we're dedicated to partnering with every healthcare team to securely connect them at no charge with instant access to the information. They need to provide the best possible care medications, allergies lab reports medical histories and more. We are the Hudson. Valley's health information exchange health link New York now powered by healthy connections. Hello and welcome to move improve with, Debbie. Thanks for joining me today. I'm privileged to welcome. How logs done and he is an associate broker in real estate in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And he's going to talk to us today about the pleasures of retiring and living in New Mexico. And this will be a regular program every month. The difference is it will be living in a different part of the country to enjoy life and retirement someplace else other than where you live. So welcome to the show Hal. I'm so glad you could join me today. Thank you, Debbie. It's wonderful to be with you. I hope the weather is wonderful there in New Mexico today. It's just cleared up. It's nice and sunny, that's great will tell me, I know you've been in New Mexico for a while now and tell me and the listeners what do you like best about living in Santa Fe in particular? But New Mexico in general. There's so many things I like about it. But I think most of all like the community Santa Fe's small city. I think the population is about eighty three thousand though, there's a great number of interesting people here, and I find it very friendly with many opportunities to connect with people. But I I made by when when I made my first visit the nineteen ninety two I think it was it was twenty nine I was just completely taken in mesmerized with with Santa Fe and ask myself why we salon to to come to this unique place and after several several visits here. I tell myself, you know, one day, I'm gonna live here and low behold here, I am, and I think Christmas off every day that I she live here that that dream came true. Well, it's a wonderful city. I was so pleased to visit their few months ago, and I just fell in love. And I knew like you. I knew I would love Santa Fe, and it's just terming town and so much to do and I like the walkability of it too. But tell listeners what you like best about living in New Mexico itself. You know, I have to say it's the it's the climate. It's a dry climate. Here was I've always lived in fairly humid environments. But I think it's definitely the climate. And the there's a natural light here that is very at the nourishing. I think I can relate to Giorgio Keith who came here from New York on her very first. Visit I think she's quoted as saying that would she? Came to Santa Fe or skews me when she came to New Mexico. She found her soul, and that's why she ended up relocating here because that that natural light here. We've lost him. Which I guess I should call low. Okay. You're back. What happened to you? Don't know. This is creepy. Okay. It's that old white New Mexico. Start again, if the what do you like best about living in New Mexico? And so just all ask the question again. Encounters down Joe. Three two one. Though, how what do you like best about living in New Mexico itself? The state. Debbie. I would have to say it's the climate the climate and the natural light here. It's a dry climate. And having lived in humid hearts of the country. You know, most of my life. I really prefer drier climate. The light itself is the only way can really describe it as the this natural life that we have here is is what I would say nourishing. It just really enhances your mood, and or hand his mind every day, if if we have a sunny day, which we do, you know over three hundred days a year. You know, I always think about Giorgio kief and her quote that on her very first visit to New Mexico. I believe it was in the nineteen thirties when she came here from New York. That she says she found her soul. And I think that that the natural life that we have here a allowed her to as an artist to flourish. And of course, the rest is history. We all know her her fantastic work. We have a museum here that that that dedicated to her as well as many other places around the state, and also I think it's the wide open spaces here. I think that lends itself to. To kind of open opening creative mind interesting. Okay. That's yeah. I enjoyed the Georgia Keith museum, and I wanna get back there to go to towels and see her place there that she has and it it's just such a different area from what I'm used to. I really enjoyed it. What about the weather though? I mean, how many days of sun is it get as hot as AirAsia with one hundred nineteen degrees, or what are the average? No, no, no. We're more of a mountain state in Santa Fe in particular. Seven thousand feet above sea level. So we never get scorching hot. Like, you do in Phoenix. We do have over three hundred days of of sun here, which I love in. That's just one of the draws for me. We do have four distinct seasons. And of course, we do have a winter real winter. And we often do get snow. As I mentioned, we're seven thousand feet above sea level. And we do have a ski area about twenty minutes from here, which is ten thousand feet above sea level. So there is I think this year we're getting upwards two hundred forty inches up in the mountains and the ski area. So we have a very very active skis is in this year. Last year wasn't wasn't. We didn't have much snow. So we didn't have such a great year for skiers. But this year is just going gangbusters for the skiers and they're all they're all in town. What about how hard does it? Get wind. What months is it one month, two months of heat, or what will oddly or surprisingly for a lot of people June as our hottest month. We do get into the nineties most of June throughout the day. But the nights get really nice and cool pleasant. There are a lot of people here that live here. It's still don't have air conditioning. Because there's there's only maybe six weeks of the year where people feel that they need it. They keep their windows open at night cools off the house that closed up during the day. And it's it's quite manageable. August is are actually be quite pleasant weatherwise. It's. It does cool off a little bit in August. And a lot of our days are in the eighties. So August is the busiest tourist month here. One because of the weather and too because we have a lot going on like Indian market. So we have a great number of visitors. Arizona Texas, Florida who come here in August to get out there heat. Interesting. So they come as far away as Florida. That's interesting. What can you mention about the Indian market that sounds intriguing? All any bark is is huge. I if I remember correctly, I think we they say that it brings in upward two hundred thousand people. Into the into our area. Which of course, we'll have dearly the accommodations for that. But people stay in various places like towels or Albuquerque or surrounding areas to visit the India market, but it it is quite an abet. And it's just a a great display in downtown of the the Indian art and those artists will come from all over the place to participate in outta that. Interesting various our busiest week of the year. And so it's just one week in August. Yes. And various tribes of various Indian tribes participate, or is it one or two or no, it's it's it's everyone you can imagine. I couldn't name them. All that's amazing. I one thing I enjoyed about the my trip to New Mexico was learning more about the Indians out there. And it's it was very interesting as to how they develop the area, and what has happened to them since. But believed Yuba city the public. Didn't you? Yes. Yes. Got to see a one of their ceremonies yet. Oh, yes. Every time. I go out to either while New Mexico or Arizona, wherever I always liked to visit the Indian reservations to learn more about that particular tribe, and I just find I've always been fascinated with Indian culture and the Indian lifestyle, and I always liked to learn about it. And it's always fascinating to me. What goes on at these particular locations and all the rich cultural history that they have so and how traditions down for generations. Yes. And they keep doing it regardless of what the restrictions are on their lives and their lifestyle. So I wonder I've great dove respect for them. But let's let the listeners know what what's cost of living. Like, there's a pretty good pretty realistic was what's it like? Will I think that has depends on where you come from it. Terms of relocating, I would say it's considered anywhere from moderate probably maybe a bit high for some for some depending upon what part of the country you come from. If you come from a high cost urban area. I think you'll find it the very reasonable. If you're coming from maybe a smaller town or. A state like, I don't know, Louisiana or. Or or South Carolina. You might find it a bit higher. But it's still not unaffordable. It's out. No. I would I would say, no, I yeah. What about like medical facilities? I always tell people to be sure that they can get to a hospital easily and that the hospital is not endanger of shutting down. I know. A lot of rural areas have facilities that are closing down. Just because they can't afford to stay open. And I'm sure Santa Fe has enough population to be able to support good hospitals and doctors, and that sort of thing so talk to people about that. We do we have. We used to have this one major medical facility, and that was Krista Saint, Vincent. Now, we have to Presbyterian health care services came in last year built a major facility here. So now people have the option of choosing between the two of those. I the Presbyterian, which of course, is brand new is considered state of the art, but cynic Christmas events has a major presence here. So we're fortunate now that we have both. And I think competition is always a good thing of particularly healthcare for sure. Having good quality medical care is very important as well. Yes. Now, if you needed something highly specialized, like, a heart surgery or something like that. Many of the specialists are found in Albuquerque. So people will go there for for major procedures Albuquerque's about sixty miles south of Xanthi. Okay. Great now, what about walkability ease of getting around transportation in a parking all that kind of stuff, you know, people like to bring their cars, but they may not need to rely on cars much. Right. Well, you mentioned that what you were here you found it to be a very walkable city. I I I concur with that. But most people that live here do have cars and unless the downtown some don't, and they just walked everything or the bike or take public transportation. We do have a very good. Bus system dedicated just to seniors. I I I believe it's free. I don't think it has think you have to pay for it. So a lot of seniors who no longer drive prefer not drive will will use that system. Interesting. What about you know, dropping and restaurants art, museums nightlife, is there a nightlife in Santa Fe. Well, sports, nightlife. There is a Night Live. We have used live music and. But it does it doesn't go real late. Like, it doesn't some of the major cities. I think by ten o'clock downtown is pretty quiet and people go home. So if you're looking for a place that goes into the wee hours of the morning. This is probably not the place for shopping restaurants. I think we have the shopping here is tremendous. It's really a shopping backup because of all the artists and the unique orchard is you can find here you should not lack for shopping. If it's particularly if you want to find unique things that are good. By the artist and the local native, American culture. Oh, yeah. Well, what types of housing can people look for in the Santa Fe area. We have a pretty. To digital mix of housing, you know, single family homes condos townhomes. I it is it we have a. Our architecture. Here is pretty uniform in terms of of the adobe architecture that we're known for. I think that's one one of the things that people really like about this city is is it looks different than I was any place. You'll find in the US. Interesting. So what kind of price points is it considered expensive to buy something there a lot of people rent. What's the Christ range for different types of housing their prices for Reggie where from let's say one fifty one hundred fifty thousand for one bedroom condo up to several millions for. Some of the single family properties that is is known for having some very expensive real estate. You know, moderately place real estate. It's. Join a blank now. Well, can people I like to recommend to people that they sometimes rent for a while to see if they really like it. So I'm assuming other than Airbnb there might be a rental department that they could live in for a while to try on the lifestyle is that something that's available. Oh, sure. A lot of people to read here for the first year or two to get to know the local real estate, and it's you know, often a good way to go. Now for those that really know the city because we have a lot of visitors that have come here for years. Oftentimes, they'll do a short term rental. We have a lot of short term rentals that are furnace te that they can rent for three or four months and while they're looking for a place to purchase interesting. So what about real estate taxes if they go ahead and buy something then that run? Real estate taxes student count on about one percent of. Of the value of properties. So for example, people four hundred thousand dollar property if the county reassessing full value, you probably end up paying about four thousand a year for that. That's not so bad. Yeah. So what about income tax? Do you all have the taxes on the income some states don't do that? We do have a state income tax and the brackets or anywhere from the tax brackets, anywhere. From one point seven percent to four point nine percent dependent upon your your level, then come, but I've always found it very reasonable compared to other places that I've lived. Well. That's good one one more thing about getting there. What's the closest airport? How far away is that? So if somebody did wanna fly in and visit Dade have an idea of how long it takes to get from the airport to Santa Fe a lot of people are surprised to find out. The Santa Fe actually has an airp-. Port. It was only the last two years that they started using it for commercial lights. Because in years past it was used for just private planes, but we do have an airport here. And I think there are three destination cities right now that those flights come from go to and that would be Phoenix Denver and Dallas. We have an Los Angeles flight, but they did away with that. But they're I think trying to bring that back interesting. The major port would be Albuquerque. And a lot of people will use that and drive drive up to Anta Fe or take the train of the shuttle. Well, we have just a few minutes left. And I wanna I to me history of any place visited fascinating. And I wanted to talk a few minutes about some of the places to see in Santa Fe and surrounding areas. Like historic places. I know we talked a little bit about Georgia keys, but what else is going on with the Indian reservations in. That's thing any special events yearly that they have w there so many. As you know from your visit hair Santa Fe is rich in history. Santa Fe ended Mexico or rich and history Santa Fe was actually originated on the site of old Pueblo villages, and we still have active pueblos all over the state that you can visit certain times of the year and and watch their ceremonies and their other events. I I like to go, and I try to do this every year on New Year's day. I like to go up to towels which is about an hour and a half from here and visit the towels Pueblo. They do they do the turtle manse every year on New Year's day, and this one of my favorite to to watch. And enjoy. Interesting. They put turtles in the dance. They dance. Yeah. We should do that. It's it's the there. Dancing to some kind of turtle fifty. There's there's no turtles that take place in the dad's. And it's it's really fascinating because you have to when you're there you have is not at a specific time. You just know that it's going to happen sometime in the morning. They do a ceremony in there in are their quit blow structures prior to the dance. And you just have to wait until they're they're called do the dance. And then they come out is. And this is just the men of the boys that do the dance they'll come out and perform the dance, and and it's just a wonderful thing to see. Well, it sounds like Santa Fe is popular destination for retirees. But obviously, you can only find that out by visiting Santa Fe in person, and it's a very special place, and people are very friendly and social so I'd like you to share how people who contact you directly if they would like to visit Santa Fe look at real estate get a feel for the lay of the land. And learn first hand from an expert in Santa Fe what's involved with moving mayor soak. Would you share your information of how they can contact you? Sherpa of contact is Email, and that is just my first name H A L. Dot my last name L O G S as in Sam D as in David O N. At S. Props? That's S F P R O P S dot com. So that Santa Fe properties is where you are. You're brokerages located and it sounds like it's right in the heart of Santa Fe. That makes it good one thing. I did love was the Plaza's that you have there, and that is historically the central central gathering place. And I loved that concept, and the I think it would be fun for anyone to visit Danta Fe. And if you go to Santa Fe, you have to call how because he is the expert on that area. And I just wanna thank you so much for joining me today how and anybody who wants to go. How is the one to contact? So thanks again for coming on the show, but you so much Demi here. Welcome talk you later. Okay. We serve almost three million patients seven thousand healthcare providers and every single hospital in the Hudson valley, we're dedicated to partnering with every healthcare team to securely connect them at no charge with instant access to the information. They need to provide the best possible care medications, allergies lab reports medical histories and more. We are the Hudson. Valley's health information exchange health, like New York now powered by healthy connections. What is better healthcare? It's your medical team having your complete medical history at their fingertips, and being able to communicate instantly and securely when waiting for faxes and phone calls is a thing of the past because reports and medical images are available at the touch of a button choosing a partner that provides these tools for free saves time reduces costs and provides better care. We are the Hudson valley's health information exchange health, like New York now powered by healthy connections.

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True Consequences Trailer - True Crime and Mystery Podcast

True Consequences

01:47 min | 1 year ago

True Consequences Trailer - True Crime and Mystery Podcast

"Sequences a true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest This is true very good one after intelligent one does ins of women were taken into David Parker raised toy box a trailer heard torture chamber intruder consequence Welcome to do consequences this episode deals with themes of graphic and adult nature including murder rape and torture while we won't be going into graphic detail many of these topics may be inappropriate for younger

New Mexico David Parker rape murder
The Witch Hunter of Taos

True Consequences

21:29 min | 1 year ago

The Witch Hunter of Taos

"Hey everybody just wanted to commit to shout a couple of PODCASTS. That I've been listening to the first one is called. She's loose. It's hard for me to say it for some reason. She sleuths to Larry's women who have an obsession with true crime ones in Michigan ones in Texas. I've really enjoyed their banter and their take take on true crime. It's definitely been a joy to listen to follow them. Listen to them wherever you get your podcast and then at the end of this. There's a promo for another podcast. PODCAST that I think you might also be interested so stay tuned for that. This is true consequences. He true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico. And the American desert southwest welcome back to chew consequences. I'm your host Eric Carter London today. We're discussing a case. I wasn't fully aware of until recently my sources were a few things. So there's an article from Taus News. There's in his article in the mountain. MESSENGER DOT COM. There's also an article on the Santa Fe New Mexican and a lot of information. I got was from the murder order in the heartland episode about this case. This case occurred near tells New Mexico House in northern New Mexico. It is an incredibly beautiful. The area it's very scenic and it's one of the most beautiful parts of New Mexico. Although that is just my opinion houses just south of the Colorado border the rocky mountains rest just to the east of Taus. The Rain specifically near talents is known as the SANGRE decrease still mountain or we translate that into English. It's the blood of Christ but Rio. Grounded Sunday snakes to the west of the city. The erosion caused by the river created. What's called the Rio Grande Gorge? The gorge is about eight hundred feet deep and you can images of it on my social media pages as well as my website again just reminder. FACEBOOK is true consequences pot. INSTAGRAM is the same true consequences. QUENCES POD and twitter is true cons pod our website is www dot shoe consequences dot com the waters of the Rio Grande Day in this area turquoise blue narrow several parts of the river that actually have Whitewater rapids. It is stunning. You often find people writing those Whitewater rapids. Five fishing shing swimming in the river. It's really just a bucolic gorgeous area. In the mountains you find many tourists coming out from other parts of the country to ski. In Fact House has one of the best areas in New Mexico houses also known as an artist community is also home to one of the nineteen tribes a Pablo Native Americans pins in Mexico the task Pueblo Indians. It's considered to be a very spiritual place as a result it's also a haven for hippies spiritualists and people seeking a more more natural way of life. In fact there's a community of earth ship owners never heard Earth's chips. Well you should look them up. They're pretty fascinating. Their homes that are built into the earth and made out of recycled materials like tires glass bottles aluminum cans dirt. Some of them are surprisingly chic in modern and some of them are just plain weird. They're off the grid so they used things like solar power wind power cycle water all that stuff. But I digress arrests. You didn't come here today to listen to a commercial on Taus tourism or even to get history on earth ships or ECO friendly housing. So I'll move on on so on December twenty fifth two Thousand Fifteen Elizabeth in Rob Hegarty decided to go hiking near the two peaks area which is close to house in two weeks. Area is basically a mountain that has what looks like two peaks which is why they call it that they were really just trying to take their dogs on a walk near Taus Mesa. They wanted to honor one of their dogs that had recently been put down. They were hiking along a dry riverbed and well on the hike they stumbled upon a whole role which they didn't suspect really anything about it. At first until their dogs began to dig at the area. It quickly became apparent they had stumbled upon a shallow grave. In Fact Robin Elizabeth noticed something strange when they saw a bone sticking out of the ground it turns out that the dogs had uncovered. What look Femur as well as a Bra that look like a hidden badly burned according to rob and Elizabeth Davis sure something terrible had happened there and they were almost certain it was a murder so the couple called the police to report the incident? The police met with them and the HAGGERTY's escorted the police to the site. So the interesting thing here is as soon as the police got there. They knew something was up and on the episode of murder in the heartland. The police start talking about what what an unsafe area to pieces. In fact it's considered to be kind of dangerous because a lot of people are living off the grid and they're living off the grid for a reason they're really trying to avoid interacting with authorities. The often find a camper trailers mobile homes makeshift earth earth ships that kind of thing in the two peaks area in fact there really aren't any paved roads and city. Utilities do not go there. Police officers believe anarchists live in the two peaks area. All right. But let's get back to the story here so when the police got there. The body was almost completely decomposed. They took the body I to the medical examiner to conduct an autopsy. The medical examiner determined the body was an adult female African American. They also determined that she had been dead for at least six months if not more one of the things about ethicist houses of very snowy area in New Mexico so it's really hard to tell how long that body had been there especially because the snow could have really helped preserve the remains for a little bit longer so one of the things that was apparent was there's a significant amount of skull goal damage in the shape of a whole which led the police to believe that it was a potential gunshot wound. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death as a homicide. Now the the police launch a full investigation to try to figure out not only who this woman was but what happened to her so they started to come through missing persons reports. One of the people that stood out to police right away was Roxanne Houston so Roxanne was born in Colorado Springs and the the police reached out to her parents. The police informed Roxanne's of parents that they found a body near the House Mesa and they wanted to make sure that it wasn't her so they ask the parents to send something that they could use to compare to the bones. The parents sent over a cat scan. The police had the medical investigator. Compare are the scan to the skeletal remains. It was a match so Oxana Houston actually live in Colorado Springs until two thousand thirteen. She moved to New Mexico Exco her boyfriend Vernon one of the things found in one of the sources. I am going to list on the show notes. Is there speculation that Roxanne was bipolar. She was known to be a practicing practicing wiccan. She also had four children which have been adopted. Because Houston's life was a little complicated Houston disappeared in July of two thousand fourteen and it took six months for her body to be found. Once the police had the victim they started trying to figure out who the culprit was. Who's responsible taking her life? So they start interviewing people and they really start looking in the two peaks area because Roxane did live there in fact she and burn and moved to the two peaks area and moved in with another person named Johnny in the episode of murder in the heartland a lot of people were being interviewed and and many of them claim to be very close to Roxanne. One of the major themes in what was heard in those interviews was the fact that Roxanne was a very very generous and kind person in fact she would often run errands for people who lived to peaks area especially for people who had a hard time getting around. There was one gentleman in particular who talked about the fact that she would often go and buy groceries for him because he was unable to get out really wasn't very generous and kind thing for her to do so. One of the weird twists in the scenario is there seemed to be a little bit of a love triangle between Johnny and Vernon and Roxanne. You see one single Dan with Jani Roxanne started to develop feelings for Johnny which made Vernon very jealous and Johnny was also jealous jealous of Vernon see you can imagine that they quickly moved up to the top of the suspect lists. I think you know you're listening to this show. And if you listen to any true crime podcasts or watch true crime shows that most of the time. They're pretty sure it's going to be an intimate partner. That's responsible for something. I like this. So they started questioning both johnny and Vernon along with that the question several friends one of Roxane's friends claimed that She had seen Roxana on the day that she disappeared. She said that she had met her near Johnny's House and she explained that Roxanne told her her her and Johnny had a big fight the night before and she was planning to move back to Colorado. She going to help him find a place to live and get him. AM settled and then she would come back to us after she was done. So let's talk about Johnny. Johnny was an intimate partner of Roxanne. He actually was the person who reported her missing Again like I said. He was in a bit of a love triangle between Roxana Burnin but he was the one who invited both of them to live with him. So the Janis. Jealousy was actually what precipitated the fight the night before she disappeared and he was extremely jealous Vernon in fact he thought that Roxanne was going to leave him for him that night. Route ten left Johnny's house in Johnny also left to go to a friend's house he actually didn't realized that she was even gone until he got home. So the police believe that. Vernon's possible motive. was that Roxanne had left him for Johnny. They also thought the Janis possible motive was at Roxanne was unwilling to let go her relationship with Martin. And that's actually what caused the fight. So they were kind of going back and forth between and Johnny is Vernon who's responsible here as they're going to investigation and questioning Johnny. He brings up an interesting point. He claims that there's as a man who lived in a tent. On his property named Ivan he said Ivan has a gun he also said he thought the Ivan was strange range and could have been responsible for this so the police started looking into Ivan. They found him and they interviewed him. He denied any involvement and and he pointed to the fact that Roxanne Johnny were fighting so loudly that he heard them in his tent. He actually moved his camp so when they asked him if he owned any any firearms he stated that he did not he shared the shotgun in twenty two but that was in the past he denied owning a handgun Ivan. Then points insist finger at Burnin. He thought that for sure burning had a gun and he thought maybe Vernon was responsible because he was jealous of Johnny. Here's here's the problem Ivan. Didn't have an alibi. The other problem was he really didn't seem to have a motive. He wasn't romantically involved with Roxanne in a really wasn't linked to her. In any way negatively or positively so the police then turn their attention to Vernon again. They found out that he had some history he He had a police record with petty crime and he'd been known to be very jealous as law enforcement turned their attention vernon he disappeared so so they made it a point to find him is starting to look really suspicious. Like Media Vernon was responsible for this. The police investigated and learned and that running was actually in jail in Colorado. They went to Colorado to interview him. Confirm that Roxanne was supposed to meet him in the House and take him back to Colorado. Oh but she stood him up. She never showed up when the police told him that she had passed away. He became extremely emotional and burst into tears Vernon said that he didn't believe it. Johnny had anything to do with it. Brandon was asked about Ivan and he confirmed that Ivan was strange and he also stated that he was known to have a gun. Here's the thing about the bullet Hole Roxanne skull when it was looked into it turned out that the the diameter of the bullet was not a common size for guns in the US so that made it a little bit easier for police to narrow it down when they were looking at potential murder weapons so police least a second follow up with Ivan to see if they could learn more from him and hopefully get closer to uncovering what happened to Roxanne in the interview. He started claiming he was being set up. He adamantly denied ever having a gun but many of the residents of the two peaks area confirmed that Ivan did have a gun eventually. Somebody came came forward and told the police that they bought a gun from Ivan when the police asked that person turned it over right away please the follow up with Ivan to see if they could learn more from him and hopefully get closer to uncovering what happened Roxanne in this interview. He started claiming he was being set up and being framed he claimed adamantly that he did not have a gun. Even though many residents of two peaks verified and confirmed the he did have a gun so before the interview wrapped up. I started to bring something up. He claimed that he and Johnny went looking for firewood in July near two peaks. Wchs he started talking about a burn Bra and he claimed that he found that while looking for firewood. However the information about the burn earn Bra was never released to the public? The only people who knew about the Bra where the Haggerty's law enforcement and the killer he also stated they found a bone in that area. This caught the attention of the investigator. Because everything was so circumstantial. He really couldn't keep him there but it did. It seemed like Ivan was trying to explain away why is DNA may be found on Roxanne's remains and belongings Ivan immediately. became the top suspect. Well this is happening. Somebody comes forward from the task community to say that they purchased a gun from Ivan. The police asked that person Turn the gun over and they did as the forensics team was looking at the ballistics and comparing the barrel size to the gunshot wound Roxanne Skull. They found that it was a match. Now we all know that this cat one hundred percent be proven but the fact that the diameter of the bullet was not something. That's common in this country. Made made it pretty clear that there's a good chance. This is the murder weapon so please call Ivan back for more questions. He agreed to meet the police the next day but he never I showed he took off and he went on the Lam. So police asked the public to be on the lookout for Ivan. And somebody called end with an anonymous tip to claim that Ivan Liz at the Saint Elizabeth men shelter in Santa Fe New Mexico. Apparently he was registered the under an alias and he had changed his appearance so when the police got there they found out. He was registered under the alias. Joseph Richmond he grew a full beard and shaved his head so that he would not appear like the wanted posters that were placed all over the state. Investigators were able to identify him by the Tattoos. Hatano arm let's talk about Ivan so Ivan is originally from West Virginia. He was known to be a domestic abuser. Her there's a rumor that his wife left him and went into hiding because of his abuse. Many people also said that he was known for really hating aiding women so nine months after Roxanne disappeared on February twenty third two thousand fifteen Ivan was arrested for murder. He was charged with first degree murder and tampering with evidence. This was due to the fact this was due to the fact that Ivan had sold his gun and tried to cover up his crimes while in jail awaiting trial. I've began sketching the detective. On this case became came interested in the sketches and soon learned that every sketch had the word which hunter written title. You see Ivan convinced that Roxanne was an evil which he thought for sure that she had cursed him and put spells on him. One of the key. Witnesses in the trial was his cellmate. Who shared that Ivan said the only way to stop a witch from cursing? You is to kill them. But a people in the two peaks area area also shared the Ivan claim to be afraid of Roxanne so in two thousand sixteen. The trial starts Intel's New Mexico. The the trial goes I believe for about two months and the jury goes out for four and a half hours and they come back with a conviction guilty on both counts. He was sentenced to life in prison so recently. In the last couple years Ivan Kale's appealed the conviction listen to the State Supreme Court in New Mexico however the conviction was upheld and he's going to serve out the the rest of his life in prison. I know doesn't bring Roxanne back and this is a horrible story about the demise of young woman's life but there there is some solace in the fact that I've been is not going to be free ever again to hurt anybody else in that is the true story of the murder of Roxanne Houston Ivan Jennings Kale's the witch-hunter thanks for listening to consequences. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to check us out on social media and tell your friends about us a share would go a long way. We are listener supported. So if you feel Gilson inclined check out our patron page good a patriot dot com slash true consequences without you. We have no show so I appreciate all of our patrons turns in fact I'd like to finish out to a couple of new patrons today. Lisa M donate it at the twenty dollars a month. Green Chili level. Thank you Lisa for your donation. Mo Nick s gave a one time donation through pay pal of twenty dollars. Thank you money. I appreciate you check back with US next Monday. We'll have a new episode of drew consequences. That's a quences. Thank you stay safe New Mexico and now I present to you the Promo for true crime by the book a true crime. PODCAST I enjoy. I'm a true crime enthusiasts documentaries podcasts movies and books I love to read if you have an appetite for the twisted. Have I got a show for you to cry by the book is a podcast hosted by me. Tash appears and it's from a bookworm. Point of view. I read the book so you won't have to unless you want to then by all means read the whatever you do join me every other Tuesday to talk real crime one page at a time. That's true crime by the book. Wherever podcast are served Thank you for listening to the consequences for more information. About what what you heard today go to chew consequences DOT COM. If you like our show please. Rate Subscribe and review

Jani Roxanne Roxanne Johnny Ivan murder Vernon New Mexico Roxanne Houston Colorado Santa Fe New Mexico Roxanne Skull investigator Taus Taus News Ivan Liz Ivan Kale US HAGGERTY New Mexico House partner
Travel WITH Stephanie Abrams_October 18, 2020_Welcome New Mexico!

Travel WITH Stephanie Abrams!

39:14 min | 3 months ago

Travel WITH Stephanie Abrams_October 18, 2020_Welcome New Mexico!

"Welcome to travel with Stephanie Abrams. Welcome. Welcome! welcome! Oh, we've got a lot of welcoming to do! Welcome to you who are listening! welcome to you who are brand-new listening to us because we've got some new stations that have joined us of life among them. We've got wgcn am 1450 and wgcn FM 101.1 in Charlotte and Gastonia, North Carolina and in Rock Hill and going into South Carolina Welcome Aboard we're delighted to have you with us and also am in New Mexico. We've got a brand new station today k h o b am 1390 in Hobbs, which reaches out far enough that it covers Hobbs Denver City Andres, Odessa Midland, El Paso and on a goodnight Roswell, so I want to welcome you all aboard and you know, we instituted Almost a month ago. Now three weeks four weeks ago a new focus and that is stay and play USA song one because it'll go a long way to helping the economy of so many places in America if you decide to take your breakaways wage regionally locally even nationally and secondly our passports aren't worth much right the second. So there are very few places that you want to go outside the US and there are even fewer who would like you to arrive. It's just the facts. So just the way it is call it as you see it, you know, I spoke with some people in Ireland this week. In Galway, and those of you have been long-time fans. Remember Amy Banks the the young lady who's now, can you believe eighteen when I met her she was thirteen home a lifetime is taking place between then and now but she's soprano from Galway who represented Ireland in the junior Eurovision Song competition is voice like Maria Callas when she opens her mouth. She's amazing. So I was on the phone talking with her. Mom Alison Banks who is in the administration of the Galway Clinic, which is a private Hospital in Galway. And when you go into the Galway Clinic, you think you just went to a sandals or a super clubs or a some magnificent Resort somewhere it is so beautiful inside. You don't know you're in a hospital. In fact, you think you're in a spot because you have all these people walking around in their bathrobes and slippers who are patience, and yep. Well fine hotel that's got a spa you're going to see all the people walking around their bathrobes and slippers to so given the environment, you know, except if they're walking around pushing an IV sing thoughts on Wheels with them. You don't know that these are people that are in the hospital for treatments. But Ireland has gone into a second lockdown we got caught up in the first one in March when we couldn't get home till July, but they're in lockdown again. Everything's closed hotels b&bs pubs restaurants movie theaters, whatever it is the schools everything. It's all closed and what they've done is Because what happened was they they opened up and they've got people coming in from other parts of Europe. Although Americans were not encouraged to, cuz you have a 14-day quarantine, but Europeans were coming and now it's all over again. You know, Spain France Italy, they're all having problems again. And so Ireland in their attempt to you know, lock it down and get rid of it real quick money has gone into the second lockdown and what they've done is if people have something if they have covid-19 they have Like so they don't have to go into a facility where they might pick up the illness that's going around right now. So we wish them all the very best job and you know, it is possible to go places and stay healthy. The trick is stay out of crowds. And if you're going to be in an area that's populated or an airplane or an airport. What you want to do is make sure that you have your hand sanitizing solution with you, even though you go through airports and public spaces. You're going to find the place populated with choice either tizing hand lotions. You want to have a mask when we flew back from Ireland in July. Not only did we were everybody's required to wear a mask. But I got one of those Gilligan's Island looking hats they call them bucket hats. I've had I had like that for ages just aware when we go out in boat boat or to the beach or something, but I bought two of them online and they have their these buckets. They have a drop-down acrylic Shield that's soft and pliable and not not like a welder's mask. Although they make those two out of clear acrylic but this has a drop-down acrylic cover her face covering. So between the mask and the face covering I felt confident I wouldn't catch something. I didn't want to get on our way home on July 20th. When we finally Long Island to come home and happily, you know, we've managed to stay out of the freight which I hope you're doing but there are more and more places open and with proper distancing because the good news is this viral bug has a distance it can move and there's Doesn't go further than that. I wouldn't recommend standing downwind from somebody that's even fifteen or twenty feet away because the winds maybe propelling whatever it is that you don't want to get but with some common Horse Sense washing your hands often wearing latex gloves where it makes sense to do that job and going ahead with proper sanitation proper distancing. You'll be okay so long and more places in the US are quietly opening and that's why we're focused on staying play USA because I'm sure there are so many of you that just need again out of where you live. Cuz you just can't look at these walls and other day. And so there are many places that are in Drive markets. And if you like to drive you can get anywhere in the country and there are other means of transportation that you can consider including either if you own if you're planning on buying or you can rent an RV and then you sanitize it down. So probably deliver it to you sanitized and all the car rental companies in the Airlines and Amtrak they're using a solution they spray that is reporting something that kills bacterial and viral whatever's up to 30 hours. So have that kind of stuff available for yourself if you're renting a car off or a camper and spray it all down and then you don't have to worry about You know who's been touching that handrail before because it was you so which is how we were in Ireland than we had 530 day car rental agreements with Avis budget. It was a budget car but Avis and budget the franchisee is Ray McCann who makan wonderful guy, you know got to know each other's different. Well because every 30 days we had to rent the car again until we got home in any event. I want you to get a feeling for where are the newest values Radio affiliate station is in Hobbs, New Mexico, and I've invited on somebody that you're going to get a real kick out of seeing from and hearing about because we're going to talking talking with Aaron Anderson and Aaron who is the executive director of the Western Heritage wage. Museum and drum roll please and get excited Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame. So we're gonna jump off and talk with Aaron and it's on the line live from Hobbs, New Mexico waiting to talk with all of us right after this. Guests of Stephanie Abrams travel shows when here in the Berkshires of Western Massachusetts stay at the delightful and trendy Boutique Hotel on North visit their website at hotel on North, well. I am delighted to have on the line with me Aaron Anderson executive director of The Heritage the Western Heritage Museum and Lee County jail, and it's l e a people. We have a town of Lee in Western Massachusetts, but it's l e e. This is Ellie a the Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame. It's a pleasure to talk with you Aaron. How long have you been associated with this Museum? I've been here for twelve years would you do before? I was in grad school. Wow. What did you study that led you to be involved in a museum. I studied at Texas Tech University. And what was your major wage? Museum Science Well that puts you in just the right place didn't it? And then it was pretty fantastic. So are you from the Hobbs area? Are you from New Mexico? I am actually not. I'm a transplant from Chicago, Illinois. So how did your connection to this ever been to Hobbs before you got involved looking at the potential of working there? I hadn't it was thanks to my advisor at 10 a.m. To text you recommended me for this position. Oh, well, that's always a good thing. So when when was the first was the first time you went to the museum when you went for an interview. It was oh wow. So that's great. Cuz I always love to hear that every now and then I hear that with some body that's got you know, the 3rd the general manager of a hotel or whatever, but I'm always interested in. What was your first impression? It's flat and brown was my first impression you talking about hubs or the museum both because the museum actually come off of imitate the landscape so that may sound kind of you know block looks but yes the landscape is it's very flat. All right, we're going to take a quick commercial break and come right back cuz I can't wait to hear about this, but I to to tell you that the Cowboy Hall of Fame really catches my attention, so we'll be right back people. Don't leave me. It's Travel WITH Stephanie Abrams delighted to have on the line with me Erin Anderson. She is the executive director of the Western Heritage Museum and Lea County Cowboy Hall of Fame. They had a tickle your imagination Erin when you learned at school in Texas that there was a position open at a museum with this kind of name because the one thing I know before I ever would walk in a door of place place with this name is it's going to be exciting. It's not going to be some you know, it might be Dusty from because when you open the door I could happen but no The kind of dust that you get in some Museum that just bores you to death. So what was your when you first got inside the museum you opened the door. You walked inside. What was your first impression? It is such a Charming space is a Charming because you know being in Chicago Museums are larger than life. And this is not that size but it's a good size for the area off and you'll walk in and you feel like you're in the west. You know, it's got the Cowboys right there. You've got Chuck Wagons. It's it was just an amazing feeling. Okay, so it's kind of guy that do will name the Western Heritage Museum and the Cowboy Hall of Fame are these two concepts exhibited separately within the space boss. Yes, and no, so if we're going to be technical about it, we are two separate entities in one building. We have the Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame which has been around since 1978. And then we have the Western Heritage Museum when we moved to this building right outside of the New Mexico Junior College campus or right on the outskirts of it the Western Heritage Month became a part of that and so the Cowboy Hall of Fame has a little hall within the museum, but they're artifacts are all over the museum. Oh, so so as you go you're getting like a twisty braids of the two ideas together in one space. Yep. Okay. So what what do we find? What what what is inside what is offered to the person who can make the time to get to hug New Mexico and visit the Western Heritage Museum and Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame. What can we expect Thursday? We have three separate areas within the museum. The one that you'll see first is the Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame hallway and within that Hall we have cases dedicated to our inductees. Our membership will vote on and induct up to four members every year. And those people are pioneers ranchers or Rodeo Champs with in Lee County and I have dragon Lee County a little bit. We have the most Rodeo Champs off than any other County in the US. Wow, that's impressive. Yes. So these people are hard-working, you know, salt-of-the-earth kind of people because once you go into the Western Heritage Museum Part, which is the history of South Eastern, New Mexico, you're going to find that this was not the easiest place to settle and so these Pioneers them here, you know, they moved here and like I said, it's flat and brown, there's no surface water. They had to dig those Wells and find the aquifer underneath and they didn't know it was them first and there's no trees because we are the northern part of the Chihuahuan Desert and so they had to bring everything with them. And so for them to move here, it really was, you know, we want this land we need place for our cattle to to Grace and so they were definitely a gritty of Life survival type people. Wow, so they are honored within that cowboy hall of fame or any of the so the you've got a combination of his store or Cowboys and more recent ones of the rodeo type. Is that right? Right so are in the fees they can be living most of them have passed on by now, but we definitely have some that actually one gentleman just passed last year. And how long is a world famous Rodeo champ, you know, so we have those starting from before New Mexico was a state in nineteen 12 up till today. So it's it's a great span of who we have in their wow, that's fantastic. Well, we're going to take a quick break and come right back as I want to chat with you some more we're talking with Aaron in the executive director of the Western Heritage Museum and Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame in Hobbs, New Mexico where we've got a whole bottle of new listeners. So welcome aboard y'all stay with me. Everybody don't go away will be right back to Stephanie. It's Travel WITH Stephanie Abrams . Well, I am so delighted. To have the opportunity to introduce you to the mayor of Hobbs New Mexico where we have our newest affiliate k h o b am 1390 welcome aboard all y'all and thank you for joining us Cobb. Can I call you Sam? KO yo in the travel industry it is the rare person you come across who's expected to be called Miss or Mrs. Or mister or doctor or whatever else. It's a very informal industry. Everybody is on a first-name basis and always has been so we get a little too chummy sometimes. Yeah. Well, I'm the I'm the same way myself. Well, I'm very glad to hear that. How how long have you lived in Hobbs? Were you born and raised here or somewhere else in New Mexico or you as I say in Ireland, are you a blowing? I came to Hobbs in the second grade left for a short period of time to go to college and then came back in the mid seventies and have been in the food processing and ranching and real estate development business and some oil and gas Investments since that time. Oh, you're like my Greek friends you ever go to Greece. I have not. Oh you meet somebody there was just this warm and lovely as Charming as they can be but you meet somebody and they reach in their car, you know, you take out your business card to give it to them and they reach their pocket. They take out a stack of business cards. This is my insurance company. This is my travel company. This is my my hotel. This is this is my car rental agency. This is my real estate development just goes on forever, but I guess there is such a thing as an entrepreneurial personality and clearly right in our in our area of this our area of New Mexico is a very entrepreneurial. For sure. So where where were you born? Where were you the first seven years of your life? I was born in a little town north of Abilene Texas called Stamford Texas. My father's family long history five generations wage and the cattle ranching business. So, you know a woman named Temple Grandin. I knew Temple Grandin she was at Texas Tech University when I was working in teaching there and I I got to know her very, well. She revolutionized cattle handling in the livestock industry. Yeah, and for all of you out there who are either somewhere on the autism spectrum or have someone in your life who is Temple Grandin has written dozens of books much of it about animal scientists much of it about ranching and revolutionized the way cattle ranchers both in America and places like Australia and South America where there are big cattle ranches Rev. Should I used to weigh cattle is moved and hurted and taken to slaughter and whatnot. I mean and the woman is on the autism spectrum HBO did a feature film about five called Temple Grandin and Claire Dane played the title role as Temple and she's been a guest now, I guess three or four times on my radio shows off and we actually went to Beekmantown High School too or Beekman Township. Maybe it's called High School in New York state about a 1/2 hour drive from where we live because she was going to be speaking at a 488 thing 4-H club something whatever and I had to meet her cuz I had her on the air with me a number of times. I never met him but I hear cattle I think Temple and you can go for your going to be able to find her if you go to S Abrams. Net and go to our archive shows and podcasts. Have shows and you can find the shows. She's been on just recently cuz I had her on to talk about my dog. Aaron Gould wolf was a rescue in a little peculiar. So I met her in the in the mid-seventies. I met her in the early early to mid-seventies when her philosophy about cattle handling was still a lot of resistance in the industry, but she proved that that's that's changing those messages. It was much more Humane and and much easier to get cattle into wherever location you wanted them to to go. So she's she has totally revolutionize the industry. No doubt. Yeah and the other there are two other pieces to that one. She's a woman and two she is autistic. And so correct, you know, they're worth you got all these Macho guys in the in the cattle business looking at this frail. You know thin tall skinny person who is you know, she she is what you'd call in a classroom the a typical child and to have is a typical woman coming in to tell a bunch of died in the wall ranchers. This is what you ought to be doing. You know, it takes some courage it does but see the film people Temple Grandin Grandin, it's you'll find it online. No problem if it's packed Netflix, so we're in all these things that you're doing Sam that you get involved in community service as mayor of Hobbs, New Mexico. Well, I've served that served that served in various appointed positions under four different governors in the state of New Mexico. And then I've been very active in a lot of community organizations and serve for ten years on the planning board for the city of Hobbs and a group of citizens came to me in 2012 and asked me if I would run for mayor so I did that and then I'm just in March of this year. I've starting my third term so and so the Partnerships that we've had we have we've had a lot of success, uh Community we have been blessed with a very robust economy due to what's been going on in the oil and gas industry prior to the pandemic but we've had over almost $200,000 in quality-of-life improvements in our community and during those years and the city itself has a lot of amenities that Even large metropolitan areas don't have really focused on trying to improve the quality of life. Like what well are okay probably most important development we've done it was a sixty million dollar indoor Recreational facility that has an indoor water park with two 40-foot slides. Oh, wow as an indoor indoor swimming and diving competition pool. It has an indoor warm water therapy and exercise pool. It has a three-story walking jogging track in the center of it and them for the kids. We have a Prague Prague playground that looks like a McDonald's Playland on steroids. It's over forty feet tall and has a huge slide for the kids to come down. And so it's let me ask you let me ask you a hundred and fifty eight thousand square feet and you'll have to go there you'd have to go to a large metropolitan area to even find a job. Anything that would rival it in terms of its amenities and the size of the facility. All right. So let me let me just address that hundred and fifty some-odd what you say 156256. Okay, that's a little smaller than the average Walmart Supercenter people cuz they they used to be in the name of it huge the name of it is the core c o r e and you can find it on the internet and it stands for Center of recreational excellence. And so what we've tried to do is it's a basically a place where all ages from all children have small children areas all the way up to our seniors. You created all be in the same place at the same time and you've created a lot of jobs in the community not only the construction jobs of building it off, but for maintaining it and four people running the programs and you know security purposes and whatnot. I mean, that's but let me ask you what's the population of Hobbs? Well, we don't know what the census we hope to find out. We think that we're going to be close to fifty thousand. But of course, you know, the census has been such a problem this year that we're concerned, We're not going to get it to Camp. But we we feel like it within the County census District, which is Hobbs within a 5-mile radius around the community. We think will be easy to fifty thousand people. So as mayor this is public record, so I'm not asking about your personal accounts. What is your budget? to run the city it's over. It's just around a hundred fifty million dollars a year, including our capex and all those other types of things. It's about a hundred fifty million dollar budget. It's been close to two hundred million over the years. We have cut back naturally do the economy of contraction that we've had but it ranges between 150 and two hundred million dollars here. So, what I'm trying to look at your in a fairly spread out sprawling kind of environment know, I mean, you're not like some Metropolis in America. No, it's a it's a town was founded in nineteen twenty-eight. So it's it's relatively spread out. And so it's not near that's the Titans. Did you see with the older communities that are built, you know salaries of years ago. Here's the thing. I'm looking at. I mean we live in a county with right now. The official statistics are like a hundred and twenty five thousand somebody that's involved in County government said to me when I mentioned that recently, you know, Stephanie, we don't have the new census Chicago. But if I had to guess I'd say it's more like a hundred twelve thousand and we're a really sprawling out County and we're not flat. We got mountains Everywhere You Look only they're not really mountains are big Hills, but we call a mountains. If you go 25 minutes north of where I live. You're in Vermont there. You got real mountains. Oh, but we've got these wonderful Hills that don't go above the tree line, which makes our Fall Foliage. Sensational cuz it looks like the mountains are Hills are carpeted cuz the colorful trees go up one side across the top down the other side, but I thought we could use something like that in our County as a center to bring people together and feel like a, you know, a community and not like a bunch of different small towns in a few cities small cities that are in this County and I know if somebody brought that up at one of the bigger cities in this County like Pittsfield people would pass out I would just die away cold right in the meeting room at the thought of where is the money going to come from? Is it coming from as my Baltimore relatives would say coming from the old box coming from the oil industry. Where is this money coming from? Well, yeah, the whole industry. Drives a lot of our business, but where the money came from is the city put money into the project. We had a private Foundation here that put money down the project the school district put money into the project and New Mexico Junior College, which is our community college here. We put money into projects and we paid cash for it. So we there is no bond issue. It was issued for the project. So ongoing operating cost of operating costs is being born the city the junior college in the school district, but there is no Debt Service for the facility we so it was it was a good project and a good way to do it. So we don't burden the taxpayer with Bond issues. I like to get you on the phone in a conversation with some of our local leaders and have you had one of those nice sharing sessions because I mean I hear you saying that and I'm saying to myself boy. What could we use that? That would be so lovely and we've got tons of outdoor everything. I mean, we've got walking trails and biking trails and walking trails and trails that go up constitutional which has steeped in American Revolutionary War history and we've got world-class museums and world-class musical festivals and wash everything dance going on in this County that is ranks with the finest cultural activities available in the world, but we have long cold Winters found. Would it be nice? Yeah. This facility would be wonderful for that. And another thing that we have done. We have we have we sent over two hundred million dollars collectively and none of that has been done with any birth. Money over the last well, we gotta take a quick commercial break or not tires and so pick up on that right after this commercial break. So hang on with me, don't move. We'll be right back. Don't go away shut off. Thursday Thursday, it's travel with Stephanie Abrams on the line with me is Sam Cobb. Who is the mayor of Hobbs New Mexico? And this is a happening place. It is always a joy for me to find out about some place in America that I know nothing about and in the midst of packing away the layers of the onion to get at the heart of what's underneath all those layers. I find out such phenomenal marvelous things are going on Thursday. Where the world but particularly in the United States that we that never makes our major news stories never makes our major newspapers. We don't know a thing about and is just assumed that we don't hear anything. So nothing's going on but I wrote you a limerick Sam dare. I read it please? "T he family known as the Cobbs lives in New Mexico in a town called Hobbs. Th e fellow that's mayor has done his fair share to serve the town and help create jobs." Thank you very much. I I get inspired to write limericks. I try to keep them clean. That's what happens when you hang out in Ireland too long. So we were talking about the uniqueness of this really really town and are you a city girl? Are you a town? No, we're the corporated City Yaar. And so you're doing some phenomenal things right there. Now. We had a chat earlier than if Aaron Anderson from the Western Heritage Museum and County Lee Cowboy Hall of Fame was great fun. Are there any other hidden gems in Hobbs or nearby so that somebody coming to the region cuz they want to check you guys out knows where else to go and what to do. Yes, there are a number of other items. One thing is we we just in 2015 we cut the ribbon on a new golf course that has one off of national awards and five International awards for its design and its impact on the community and its ability to grow the game. We have one of largest largest first T programs in the country not only the state and it has a we incorporated a walking trail around it. So that non-golfers can utilize the facility. We we built the clubhouse so that would accommodate our weddings and reunions and all those things that we have a lot of people in the community that use that in the USGA. The United States Golf Association was so impressed with our work that they came and did not video about growing the game and how Community can improve the quality of life with the sport of golf and it's on their website at usga.org about rock win phone number. Links, okay. So here's my question again. you know, there are so many people who learn the word know before they learn the words we can do that song was get in the way of progress of that Community Center that golf course with its Clubhouse and its first team program and people the first-team program one that you're headed by Tiger Woods as a program for young people to learn life's lessons from learning to play golf not just about to swing a club mechanically, but to learn some of the values that one that come naturally out of playing the game and I mean, these are marvelous things but in many communities that I have lived in and that I have knowledge of they be things that were seen as just, you know, frivolous, you know, why are we wasting our money on that when we need the sand so Do you have just a magnificent magnanimous donors or some really Visionary people ready to cuz anything anytime somebody's got a good idea there 10 people there to stand up and tell you why that's going to happen. So, how do you get how do you get over fortunate than we have had our citizens have been part of that process and we've had good leadership and our other elected officials and other Business Leaders that we've been able to do that and you know, you kind of foster a an atmosphere of success that way and then we hope if there's any Legacy from my public service. I hope that I pass that on to the younger people in the community that they need to continue what we started in terms of working together in Partnership. So we could achieve must be greater things collectively than we can individually so well hope that continues. Thank you for joining us this hour. I hope you'll come back and talk with us again. This has been a delight. Thanks for joining us today. Yep. For me as well. Well, thank you. Come back next time people. This is Stephanie Abrams. We're flying night off.

New Mexico Hobbs Stephanie Abrams Hobbs Lee County Cowboy Hall of Fame Ireland United States Aaron Western Heritage Museum Aaron Anderson America Cowboy Hall of Fame Western Heritage Museum and Co Hobbs New Mexico Sam Cobb Chicago executive director out County New Mexico Junior College Galway
INTERVIEW: Behind the Brand Strategy for Pro Soccer Team New Mexico United  Episode 097

Design Speaks

47:12 min | 1 year ago

INTERVIEW: Behind the Brand Strategy for Pro Soccer Team New Mexico United Episode 097

"Welcome to design speaks this. Lovely Polk County is brought to you by graphic design. Geek and a regular even being thank. We're here to chat about music, pop culture, cool places. Basically, whatever we feel is rather than hey, guys. I'm brandy and Michelle and you're listening to episode ninety seven of design speaks. Yeah. This week. We actually have a really great guests. If you guests we're talking with Sam MacLay Zach Rutledge of three advertising and the brand for New Mexico's first pro US L soccer Team, New Mexico United. I I wanna say that. I'm really excited about the interview. We just conducted. Yes. You are going to listen to it in a little bit. If you're outside of New Mexico. We have our first professional soccer team that just started playing games in March. Besides the fact that they're an incredible soccer team. Like, they they're actually really I think to today we are undefeated. It's either like a it's been like either a draw or we've with it's a it's a draw. I got to see their first winning game. I know that they had one. When they first home winning game. They lost their first or they tied draw. It was a draw. So maybe yet that you're you're on the right track then, but they're doing so. Well, so it's been a lot of fun and we got to talk to three advertising, which is the agency that created their branding and advertising. So yeah. So they they've been creating they've been creating a lot of buzz up until they had created a lot of buzz up until like opening night. But I was like skeptical. You know, I don't know anybody knows much about New Mexico. But it's unfortunate that we are, you know, out of all of the states, we are either last or second to last or third to last in like major categories just like behind miss. I'm and like education and all sorts of stuff. We get a bad rap. Besides the fact that like a good chunk of other states and people in them don't realize we are not Mexico like they they I've Venanas multiple times if I speak English when I'm in other states, and it's I don't speak Spanish like wait problem, which one of us is the smarter one. If you don't even know my state exists. Yeah. I. Early nineteen hundreds continuing on with that. Yeah. It's it's been it was really refreshing to see this this advertising this logo everything for New Mexico United, which is the soccer team's name in New Mexico and to be able to talk to them about it super cool. You will see that? I learned some very important things. So yeah. And I my goal for this. This particular interview conversation thing was I really wanted to, you know, have an opportunity to share with you guys. Especially those of you who are not designers that listened to us the the impact that a really great design can have on like unin tire community. Not just like, oh, this is for a business to make money, and oh, this is for a restaurant to somewhere, more coffee, or whatever. And yes, they know the the primary goals to sell tickets and all that stuff, but the underlying goal with this was that they want to bring New Mexico. Geico together because we're such a big state where a huge state with not very many people in it Zoellick were all over the place. So to unite us. Yeah. To Mexico United. And I think that they're doing a pretty good job with that. But that'll be a little bit later. We'll talk about that in detail in depth with them my week. I've just been busy. And so with that I get home and I am exhausted. So I like and right now. Oh my gosh. Allergies are murdering my sinuses. I like I've been told my whole life because I'm I'm pretty petite like, but I've been always told like if there's a wind like it's gonna blow me away this week, I login feel like if I was outside. I would have been blown. Oh, I've had to brace myself. Like, like, I've, you know, there's always jokes like brace yourself don't blow a you like you. But like I've had to lean forward and walk in ten leg win squint your eyes small as you can talk and see back at dust particles in there. Yeah. So I've been like become really acquainted with pollen dot com. Oh, it was a thing. Yeah. In the pollen count is ridiculous right now. So I am okay. In like if it's like lower. But right now, it's like high in the red at eleven point nine five like today. I think it's like in the ten, but in the tens, but it's been crazy and Colorado. Now, you're going to know how far ahead we've recorded this. But Colorado is has a bomb. It's like a bomb cyclone. What is that? It's you know, it's kinda cold here right now. It's like all lizards happening. Yeah. Mid west. So like north of us. I think it's a bomb. Cyclone is what it's called a bomb. Cyclone is when you're temperatures drastically drop in the day in the period of twenty four hours. So they went from being like seventy four degrees and shiny and beautiful down to twenty four degrees in it's snowing, and it's a blizzard now. Oh, my God twenty four hours and that kind of happened to us. It's just didn't know it was like eighty seven degrees two days ago and today, it's like fifty five. Yeah. It's. Wild. And so I did not expect this, but I killed my plant, and I'm really sad about it. But otherwise that's been my week. And I'm just paying attention to adult things like the pollen and the weather. Because it's small talk. Just because it's it's just because I can't breathe, and I don't know why. Oh my gosh. Okay. My week has been equally crazy. I don't know. I just I've been like doing things every day like twice a day like Monday, I had the opportunity to go get a tour of three advertising's building their offices or whatever to talk with Sam about you know, the interview and stuff. So I did that I dang you. Emily catella. I started the hundred day challenging blame her for. I can cause she she almost told me. It's okay can only do it only. Just take a few minutes. Like, it can be anything. I don't I don't work like that taking me way longer. Anyways. I'm officially on day twelve of the challenge. So I'm doing that. I'm it's not any like super specific. I was thinking like should I do a cover a day? Should I do an illustration should I do? I don't know. It's like, basically, whatever I create is my thing. Today. Nice. I'm just committing to creating and posting something that I make every day. That's cool. It doesn't have to be named the famous you're creating. Yeah. The famous I'm just trying to make something I finished. My Ernest Hemingway. Look cover did which I don't think what is my life. Did. I did you send me stuff, and I didn't respond perfect. It's like my life. I don't know. Maybe. No. You did. Because you were like that's the one I liked and I'm like, I don't think I showed you this one. And remember that conversation I do now. Yeah. Okay. So I finally finished it. We won't go into all the details of that at this juncture. But if you wanna see what it looked like, and I talked through some of those details on my Instagram. You can go check it out. I put it on a mockup. Full disclosure. Those are not my beautiful manicured hands. It's a it's a stock mockup thing that I thought so that's one thing. I could not be for sure as a hand model. Oh, yeah. I'm like. Like my nails. I. Or peel them and undecided to you need work for that. Because I can do that. So that was really exciting for me. I I feel like I've got some momentum. So the next two ready decided I'm going to do are not just Allison wonderland. I'm going to do the complete collection of Allison wonderland. So it's also wonderland Alice through the looking glass and two short stories. So and my next one after that, I think I'm gonna say it out loud. But I think I want it to be the Ella straighted, man. Okay. One of my favorite books. But I'm I'm trying to think of so if you guys have any suggestions, I'm trying to think of like classic books that I love that. Don't have a million covers already. Oh, yeah. Like, some obscure books usually have like, yeah. It's like, well 'cause they're all they're all public domain. You know, all these books that have all these various covers our public domain, but there's some like Ellison wonderland. I could collect every book cover for the rest of my life and probably never get them. All right because it's such a popular book. So probably in true form to me. I'm like, which ones aren't very. But I also love but like for Hemingway's a moveable feast there's like four covers in existence, and none of them are really exciting. And they don't tell you anything about what the book, MS or anything. So I'm like, okay. What can I how can I elevate design for a book that I already liked that doesn't have anything? So fun fact on that. Maybe you don't know about me, but I've never read a moveable feast. Most people have not when I saw your cover that don't have you released it to the world. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. I forgot you your it's on Instagram. Okay. Yeah. Well, the Instagram's it's on the that's foreshadow and keep that never mind. So when I saw that I'm like, oh is this about like maps like is is that what is this like traveling or do they travel in this book? And I was like I should read a movable feast. Hey job. Let me see so happy thought about it. I was like I read that book in my downtime. I don't have downtime. I no, no. You don't have to you have to make time. I have to make I have I have to stop saying. Like, I don't know. I'll have to find time for that. Like, I do the same thing. You don't find time. You dislike you have to make it. Yeah. Like 'cause you can't find it. It's always lost. I just wondered as anybody else have a hard time reading within their house. Like my daughter's like, mommy. Mommy. Mommy. And I'm like hold on baby. I'm trying to read. Mommy, and I'm just like, okay. I'm obviously not going to read here. I'd like go hide in a closet, which I can do now because whatever but have one I have a closet that. I have a light, and I can close it maybe hide for like ten minutes. But like, otherwise, I'm like I have to go away. I can read in my car. Even if I'm just like sitting outside in my car, you will soon have probably a pickup line to wait in your daughter at some point. Oh, yeah. That's a good place to do it. So that's been my week. I've I mean, I feel like I've been productive. But it's. Also just been a lot like we've got we've got baseball and group things at church and just like lots of stuff so stuff, but we're really excited to let you guys hear this interview. And I hope you enjoy it and here it is. So welcome guys. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. So who's who's who? So this is Sam. Hi sam. I'm zack. Hello zack. We'll see if we can like keep that straight. I think I got it. But I just got a nickel speak in an Irish accent. Okay. Her they oh, man. If you could do that for our whole interview, I'd be super impressed star speaking Irish I'll start Cussing. It's like you have to to get. It's like getting in character. I love it. I was so flattered when when Sam said that he's actually like a listener of our podcast. I'm I met Sam ages and ages ago probably around two thousand six or seven when I was in my like last couple of years of design school, he actually attended one of my senior presentations. So now, it's come full circle. Recall, and I also went to school with issue. Yep. If you classes, so you guys go way back is what you're telling me. Because because I'm old. Yes. Yes. That's true. So tell us about you guys and what you do. Sure. So let's see three advertising started in two thousand five started with two other partners and a an a fourth partner. Eventually we had come from other agencies in the Albuquerque area and just cited to try our own thing. And then Zach came on board. He's now senior art director with us. How long have you? Six seven years while. And it looks like you guys like, I'm looking through your website. You guys have you guys have some really like like prominent places like I look at the humble right on that. And I'm like, oh, you guys did the humble bean, and like I have a shirt with that on it. So you got some good stuff. You guys recently did New Mexico United looks like you've been a part of avodados. So it's really cool like some great things have come out of three advertising. Thanks. We're able to take on you know, we're a full service ad agency and design firm, so we have like an agency of record mile for some of our larger clients. And then we take on a lot of design Centric projects that are were hired for short duration like a small design firm. So it's kind of cool were able to kinda swing both ways as far as like being kind of the traditional agency model, and then also taking on like design projects early from all over the world. We get we'll get like logo inquiries from all over the planet, which is kind of fun. Like we've done up like a barbecue restaurant in Spain. We've done a some restaurants in New Orleans lie. There is what I wanna know. Come try the food. So you can really get a sense of our brand. Like, some of these finds we've never met an will never meet in person, you know, which is kind of cool matab art world. So we really wanted to have you guys talk about, you know, the branding that you did for for the New Mexico United, and I just have so many questions. Yeah. Were you guys fans of soccer before this? Or is this like, you know, I would say as a stereotype. Designers creatives aren't necessarily thought of as also sports fans or sports, you know, excited by sports. So it's like, yeah. Go sports. I am like I I've been into sports my whole life. So it wasn't unusual for me. But were you guys kind of in this in this world already? Or was it a lot of research? It's a little bit of both. So this is Sam might might kids play club in high school soccer, and I was not like a an athlete or a jogger sports fan. But because my kids are so into it. I've become a really big soccer fan. And so a so just soccer specifically kind of a a soccer nerd. Socked bomb media. I've always played sports my whole life. So I was kind of like closet, Jack. But also, creative, you know. Right. It's like so weird. But I wasn't the biggest I played soccer off until I junior high or something, but I never didn't follow it professionally. But after doing this project definitely got way more into it. I mean, so often you're asked to work on things that really you don't have a lot of experience with as a consumer or or, you know, sometimes you do and it's a great fit. But sometimes it's like you really wrap your head around like what is brand about in his who does it appeal to let up with something like a sports team. You know, we had not done a lot of sports marketing really much at all. So, but that may lead in some of your other questions. I don't want to jump to go here. You're you're right on that. 'cause I play my question about that was. Okay. So what research did you have to do for specifically New Mexico United? Sure. So they they did maybe just a little back story. They did an agency review. I think they called in a few shops locally, I mean to their credit. They've kept a lot of the business local with their vendors. And you know, all the way up the up to like tell they sell tickets. So they've done a very New Mexico Centric brand, which is really cool. That's good. I'm always concerned about people that are like creating branding for things in New Mexico that don't live here or have no idea what happens here. Yeah. So they did an agency review. And I thought we hit it off. But at the time, they I don't I think they didn't really choose anyone. And I think they it was a little early in the process, and I think they were gonna work internally on it. And then we kinda got a call. We, you know, this is just one of those ci-, right? Kind of obsessed a little bit about it like because my kids are such soccer fans. And I just felt like we just have to be a part of this a no we can do this. And I know I just felt really like we just had a real passion for what we could do for them. And so we kind of bugged him a little bit. And just said, hey, how's it going? If you're running much frustrations, you know, keep checking in the season was getting closer and closer than they kind of they called us and. You know, a little a little late. It's always a little late. Then it became an emergency. Yeah. Then we jumped on it. And. So what goes into what is on an agency review? What goes on in an agency review Michelle by? Yeah. So usually, it's it's like capability, so they kind of want to hide to want to know what your capabilities are. They wanna see some of your work and some of your thinking, it's also it's also kind of a chemistry. Check about like who are these people that will be working with you know, in some cases like every day. So are these people that we can work with does it the vibe feel right? Like a job interview for a whole agency. Yeah. Yeah. I mean all things being equal if they like your work, then what's the next criteria? Like if they already liked two or three shops. Then, you know, are we personality fit, you know, so important it's kind of like, it's it's they're co workers at that point. In some weird way the clientele but their coworkers as well. Absolutely. I mean, you really in the trenches with some clients, you know, every day if not every other hour like so they really need to know that that's gonna work on a personal level. So and I think they met us only like they liked us and with Noura great group to. And so. So yeah, I'd say all things being equal past like, can you can raise the CD at that. And the other thing is would what's the chemistry? Like, right. And I'm sure that was really important since you said that they kinda called in the emergency state. How fast did that turnover? Have to be like what what was your time? She was pretty quick. It was maybe gosh, maybe six weeks lately. Remember, the minus for it was. Yeah. Yeah. And they had already they had an idea that they liked. So we kind of picked up the ball from where they were they started. So it was it was quick. And, but you know, the we just had such passion for it like the onions really started flowing, and we just jumped in on it. And so yeah, it came together quickly. So what something I loved right off the bat. But I was wondering if how other people felt about it is that it didn't. I don't know. I was like oh cool. We're getting a a soccer team. It's gonna be really cool, but I expect to see the Zia somewhere. And unlike I'm just it's just what I expect out of like branding for New Mexico sports. Anything new Mexican like, I don't know just jump to the and it's not there, and I'm I was stoked about that. But I was wondering how did you feel about going in that direction? Did they have that idea was that something you throughout it them? So yet, actually they did they did wanna use the Zia symbol. And as you mentioned like for your listeners. It is there. I'm over here to her. It's fair. Yeah. So it is it's it's the side stripes of like, if you no way you want it literally could be the right side of the zero. You just blew her mind, which means you did a really good job with the via. I've not a designer. I'm like over here. Talking like, I'm sorry. If I ask a stupid question. I don't know if it is one until I do it so continued no it's not a I mean, I think it's one of those things like maybe like the FedEx arrow where like some people see hideaway people don't and it's a little reward. Perhaps if you notice it later, but they you know, like every just for your listeners every region has its like I don't want to every region has its designed kind of. Yeah. And so like, if it's Texas like every I'm sure it'd be Texan client wants this Lone Star. Right. Every New Orleans client wants to fluidly or what have you? So in New Mexico, the Z assemble shows up in in a lot of things. And so our our feeling was they they did want Zia simbone. So Zach really kinda wrestled with how to make it feel novel and original on. I don't know if you wanna talk. Yeah. I was wondering Chris I'm real graphic in minimalist for this. And yeah, and they're just kinda cropped and Ziauddin really seen much in the Dag knows really. I could see that had legs on the campaign in also those diagnose are used in other by pro soccer team in European style. Love of that was gonna get tie into the sport. Yemen. There's a couple of things going on to like, there's if you notice on the left side of the shield, it's open. And so the ownership group of Peter Trevisani the leader wanted a very inclusive feel to the team the logo and the whole concept of of the team. You know, it was it was really much more than just bringing a soccer team to town or the state and going through our process within that's what we really learned. It's like this is about bringing a whole state together. And and creating a source of pride and community and something we can all be behind. And you know, it New Mexico. We hear all too often forty eight in this in forty ninth. And that this is about creating a source of pride. So it was after talking with Peter and his group it's it was just so much more than hey, make a logo. I appreciate that. So much more now because I look at it, and I see it, and I'm like, oh, well, obviously, but to me it's not obvious because I'm not a designer. I don't look. Things like as I don't know. Yeah. Exactly. So Zach I have a question. So I don't know. I'm sure you are part of this presentation. So how did you go about? So they wanted they wanted the Zia, and you found a really unique and new way to present it. But did you feel like you had to sort of fight for it build in? Meaning when you know, it's like you have to have this. And then you're like, you got to kind of like go back and figure out how to in imbue meaning into this thing that they just wanted just because they wanted it wasn't something that you thought you needed to begin with. Yesterday. We'll just kind of happened organically with the design. So it just everything kind of fell together in this one. Because I knew they're going to need it want it in there in it on just kind of worked out on this like it wasn't too forced. So when someone asks you like, why did you put the Zia? What would your answer be? Representation of New Mexico in just. Yeah. I calm for the state. Thank you. I really didn't. Even see it like love it like like. Emoji my brain. So you I read somewhere that you got permission obviously from the Zia tribe to to use that was that was that surprising that they were willing to do that was it was it kind of. Did it take a little bit of convincing? Or was it like, yeah, we're on board with this. We we talked about it from the get-go about getting permission from the public. And they aren't they were already planning to do it. And they got a sought out permission as soon as they locked in on on this. So yeah, they they absolutely wanted permission, and they are all about like New Mexico by so. Again. I mean, it just really reinforces Peter's premise about United States and bringing a state together. Like, they don't want to step on toes. You know, they're hiring New Mexico vendors, and so they really walking the talk. That's okay. So did they come to you with the name already chosen or did you have a hand in choosing the team name? They were they were pretty committed to the name New Mexico United because it reinforced the premise of uniting the state and in so Peter they intentionally like everyone had had fun names like the tube macabre 's and oh. Like, they were getting a mouthful the cheer. We were thinking I have a few friends who thought Bisco cheat. Those would be a good one because Bisco cheat. Like come on. Maybe the Cheetos can be like the mascot like they have the chili guy dancing, and like drops glitter everywhere he goes because this. They know where Ganic Lee that like that kind of stuff going to happen. Like, there might be like secondary things that that that the fans create you know, and they know that's going to happen. But the to him like the whole concept of is where United and so he didn't wanna go with like a like a jokey or name or like, you know, like a mammal name or your life Thunderbirds because we did have other options, worrisome animal type things like is twenty what because our state one are samples out a bear got the black bear Brown. Bear gash forgot which one. But yeah, I was twenty with messing with that. Like classic Chris style. That's cool. But yeah, this one felt a little more universal. It just I think when you don't have a like, a mascot essential icon becomes more about the brand itself agree, and I tell you like like there's no reaction like the we learn this like doing a logo or really anything for a sports team. Like, you know, you can do a million corporate logos. Or even half a logos. And you'll get a response people will love it, or you know, people will be indifferent. But man, you do a logo for a sports team in you will hear about it. I want to go to this game because that looks awesome. And I've never had season tickets to any sports anything in my life until this. And now, I'm like, yes, I will do that. And I think they really tapped in their system pent up demand in our part of the world for like, great stuff. Yeah. It's harder. Something that cool. Now is ready for like pro and like good. You know, I think he really ten them the soccer. So is such an emerging sport. You know, every seems like every other kid plays it in a, you know, families soccer families. And so it's just it's the right time rap place. So what did your? So it was a little bit of a rush. So part one question is like how did how did the process look like for you guys because it was you know, such a short turnaround time, and like how did that play into finding like the colors and the specific shape of the shield and all that stuff pretty much fall, my normal process where we usually serve we get the client brief in. Then we gonna meet together for concept meeting in the generate general sketches like quick live five minutes. Sketches just a notebook. And then kind of move on bring those computer in do what's working what? But doesn't work in as far as color palette. Yeah. We kind of land on the black and yellow which is similar non-jewish on its nut. You would think Mexico leave the red and yellow voice? But we I wanted to do something fresh vote real bold in energetic and actually. Like license plates from nineteen twenties and thirties and even our new license plates or just black and yellow shut him back to and it's a power palette. Yeah. Exactly for sports. It's like a really aggressive. You know to think this bridge Steelers. Are you know, it's a great aggressive Allitt? What one thing I'll say to is as we getting the work. You know, in shape is one thing that kept coming up as we'll wears red whereas Rattlers red because red is in so many new Mexican elements, and our feeling was like red is spoken for you know, reading grain. Yeah. Reading green. And then like, the our our big college hippie UNM Lobos are read don't make that. Yeah. Right. And then the isotopes our AAA baseball team has read and then the the aggies the other big college program. Yeah. Yeah. And so our feeling was like red is spoken for let's, you know, have our own identity that feels organic New Mexico, but is unique. Yeah. And. Very modern too. I think I feel like the red red and silver or red and yellow red and gold red and all the red and stuff feels a little bit more like you said like traditional like like, homey, but as opposed to like, okay, this is still us. But this is like us moving in a new direction for our state. When you came to them with the black and yellow what were their initial responses were, you know, it's like we knew when you show new work to a client or like something that may be someone's not expecting easily this kind of silent. Yeah. You know, we always talk about it's like naming someone's kid or dressing someone's kid, or, you know, this is kind of I don't know if I would do, you know, all the farmers. But yeah, I think after just they process that I think. Go and context with the full campaign. We had in things one thing we do is we try to get past the logo quickly and get into the other work, so like posters and the Amalia other work. We did. So we don't get stuck on like the logo having to do everything for every brand right off strategy behind it. Yeah. Yeah. Because the local can't like a Nike Swoosh. Can't do doesn't say everything. It's like it has to be in context with the other work. And so the same thing with with this is that we show them it. And then we quickly showed them like the uniting idea that we did in the rest of the word sell. What was they? What was the place that like did they ask a lot of questions or did? They just kind of like once you started presenting the whole strategy, the mockups all the things were there are a lot of questions or was it just more like nodding like, okay, we're getting on board. Now was it like, okay, you answered all our questions, and I think we're okay with this. What did that would that? Look like once you kinda got the ball rolling a little bit more. I mean, there was this a lot of excitement. I mean, we were excited they were excited. They felt I it just felt like we just we just got it it it came quickly. You know, these were some of our early ideas. And sometimes, you know, everyone talks about like get rid of your early ideas. But a lot of times early ideas of the most genuine. So like the work that we presented is remarkably similar to what the public saw if not I traumas identical. So the whole process so you knew that that was going to be like a good solution, which is which is kind of great when when you come out the other end and go all of our linking was was on the right track. And one thing too is like we were all rookies, if you will like, you know, Peter in the ownership group is never owned a soccer team no-one no-one working for New Mexico. The United is is where I team to to my knowledge at the pro level. We've never worked on a pro team branding. So like all of us were rookies, you know? And so we were all learning the ropes together. They're they're learning how to manage operate a pro team. And you know, we were trying to figure out all the branding elements. And so we we were just all rookies since you will still are I feel like that. Did that add to like the teamwork component of this? Where like you didn't feel like you were the new kid on the block coming to the sports game. It was like we're all kind of doing this and learning as we go together. Absolutely. And so like everyone's excited. No. You know, just just no cynicism. Like, everyone says Pompton. It's it's hard. It's hard work in like, you know, right now, you know, they're they're going game by game. You know, they're they're I think the response has been overwhelming like I don't think in anyone's wildest dreams. Did we think that thirteen thousand people would be going on game? I've never seen isotope stadium. So yeah. To be honest, like an I I am like reluctant. I say reluctantly like I am. I am more. I'm becoming more of a proud new Mexican in my like thirties. Like now that I'm older, and like realizing the uniqueness that we haven't stuff, but honestly, I was pessimistic because I feel like I know this this town already people don't care about things and I went to opening night. And I was like this is amazing. And I had I had the same thing but much before like I remember hearing about like a year ago hearing about us getting a soccer team. And you know, they're going to have to sell these tickets. So that eventually they can build their. Own stadium, and I'm like pity? It's not gonna last. Literate like my thought processes so wrong on that. It's been blowing up it's been so encouraging and cool to see because I love New Mexico. I think it's this is a RAD state. It's beautiful. There are so many things to do in its underrated. But I feel like we have a lot alike. I don't think in the one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you guys. Besides the fact that I wanted my own questions answered like, I think that if this episode can be shared to primarily the people of our state, and like surrounding states to show that the impact that a good design can have on something, you know, on the perception of, you know, our state of our city of the people here, and how we are in what we do in all those things like without the work that you guys put into this. And, you know, those intense six weeks or whatever it was, you know, really digging into what it means to be an a New Mexico United team in New Mexico United. Fan. Like, I think that that may be as being undervalued and people don't understand that like they know it looks cool. But they're not understanding why? And I, you know, I love everybody needing to know the why behind you know, it doesn't just cool because it looks cool. Yeah. And and also, I just I would wanna add to that. You know, they have an internal design team. We turned over. I mean, there's so many deliverables it's over way. So we turned over a lot of the assets to them. And they're just kind of keeping that momentum going to their credit. I mean, they've done great work. And so a lot of times as designers or an ad firm. Like sometimes you'll turn Rick over to an internal team. And you just kinda you kinda hold your breath. Please don't hurt my baby. All my then if anything like they've they've they've built on it. And they're doing great work to internally. So just a shout out. Because like we see what they do on social media and things it's like, that's great that's cool until its value in love and care. And what they what you gave them. Yeah. And so he just so many times like you hand over your baby. And it's like, yeah. Please don't hurt. Really hard to make that happen. It's like it has three meals a day. Still learning to walk the gentle. It's it's a neat relationship because then they can come back to us and say, hey, can you be thinking about this because we need to be thinking about that? You know, like we need to be thinking about the next game. But can you guys be thinking about, you know, something more bigger picture? Yeah. Exactly. Are you able to share any of this stuff, you're focusing on or you know, maybe not? Back to that premise of like all being rookies. It's like, you know, the next hurdle is like well what about next year like getting season ticket holders to renew given getting more season ticket soaks coming getting more. You know, like a lot of as you mentioned Michelle like when they first started hitting the the sales road in China, get companies to buy tickets, everyone was kind of sitting on the fence waiting to see what was going to happen. And now a lot of those companies are saying gosh, our employees like dying for tickets like how do we get that right with a new company of any kind as people like clamoring? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, the other thing that's out of your control is a designer or as an ad at person is the product if you will. Right. So like, you know, what if they would've launched in like the soccer wasn't very good. Well, yeah. What if they really were terrible? Yeah. Another note. I can't say like, no, no, great logo can save that. Right. It's the restaurants food is is in good like your ad campaign. Designed doesn't matter totally to their credit like into the coaching like, you know, the products. Excellent. I get script very players great athletes. And so that's been a big kind of unspoken. Of course, an obvious thing about why they're succeeding toughen. Well, I think we're we're man that conversation went so fast. We're like marrying marrying our time limit here. But we wanted to ask you just if you guys both just a few of the questions that we ask everyone if you're Keva that. So when are each of you most productive? I'm ed. I'm a night person. So yeah, I create yet from you know, wake up after my coffee. I'm starting to be all right. But I can I go through phases like frowned per like nine or ten start get going and then by like five on burnt out. And then I get a second wave later at night. Usually like, why are they alive is go out doing Nate? Covenant upside. I'd sippy. I'd say like probably first thing in the morning when my brain is clearest, and then like toward end of day, and the other the other timing thing is usually like right before a deadline like, hey. Creative adrenaline is a thing. And it just seems like the you just get the clarity. Like, okay, all this has Junkin this. This is the thing. I mean to pursue like he get that like where closer tabs disk. It turns out your whole day was a bust and you like big it. There is nothing like an impending deadline to like get your button gear now for real. Okay. Next one, apple or Android. Apple. Yeah. We're apple how bad we can still be friends. I can't even operate like a PC. I can't even like get on the web. I can't I can't close a window. Where how do I? Speaking of what drives you nuts. What kind of things me? He's like bats. Von choices are things like that just petty design things around town. But I see, but what typeface did you use for New Mexico United? I meant to ask that, let's see I think the the United style. Babe Las nice in New Mexico is raw text us just trying to ridge don't for like, really clean modern smile. I like that. All extra Brazil dazzle. It was enough razzle-dazzle the yellows got a lot of that. Exactly. I guess I would say like change for change's sake. Like when you're changing something to kinda rearrange the Ps on the plate. Kind of makes me not spats. That's how I feel but not in design just in everything. Like, stop changing the plans. They don't need to be changed. Stop fixing what's not broken. That's something on a side note. I try to make note of as a creative doctor like I want to change something. And I don't like was this just a my just changing because that's how I would say it. Or is it is it good? The way the way it is seeing yourself in. Check is I feel like that might be a creative director thing because I have to fight with myself for that too. And I just you know, just like things to be new and fresh. Okay. Last one. What would your mom tell her friends that you do? I think my mom's got it. Pretty well known. Yeah. She's say designed to our director. Wow. He's got it. And you know, what that is? That's bonus points for your mom. Yeah. Definitely bonus pointing mom's cool. Yeah. I I guess my mom probably thinks like he makes ads like they. She gravitates toward TV. You're like the guys on that. Man. Right. We always ask that question. Because brandies mom says that she something really weird since I'm a I'm a graphics artist. I don't even know what that is mom like I've been doing this for like sixteen years you still own too. Old people always add SS on the. That makes it a legit. It's official. And she she she's on the Instagram's. Like cool. Facebook's facebook's. New Mexico old thing. Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah. Ad the native new Mexican into the mix, and we're all like, I don't even have done. So we'll thank you guys so much for for spending this time with us. How can people check out more about you guys? Sure. Probably three hour ties dot com. The number three hour touching dot com. And we're on all the social media, social, media's Facebook's. Oh, well, you guys have an awesome day. And thank you for spending. This time I could talk about all the little like picky things about a brand. And the look and all the stuff for hours, but we don't want to bore the non designers that this this show, so coffee or something. Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it thinking of us. Yeah. Absolutely. You guys have a good day today too. So thank you Sam and Zach for that awesome interview. It was it was so exciting to be able to talk about all those little detail things that I really adore. Yeah. And also make it known that this is actually really important advertising is a big deal. And at least if we could get this out to like not even did advertising, but he bullseye design. Yeah. The people of New Mexico, specifically, New Mexico? Don't hold it a such a high value. And so we need we need to make that aware that it is more valuable than they could ever think ever. But then they think. Yeah. Well, and I think that a lot of people we'll we'll just assume positive intent and say that I just don't think that they know any better, you know, they don't understand the work that goes into it. They don't know that the reason a lot of people like, you know, target better than WalMart is because they do a better job at designing things or whatever the case may be like. People probably don't understand that the intention behind this was to bring people together. And so they designed it in such a way to bring people together and it worked and like, and those the stadium is full like, I think I think the stadium holds like thirteen thousand Tina fourteen and five maybe when I went like they're close to they gave out the specific number, but it was close to nine thousand people which is a big deal, and it wasn't even cutting night. Yeah. It wasn't. It wasn't like it wasn't like something that was. Promote like, I guess it was advertised and promoted, but like a eventually you have to go to the website to see when the next game is, you know. And so it's like that's where we're at now. And it was still packed which is super cool. Yeah. So testament to those guys, and like they said to the, you know, the in house design team now that they handed all the work over to. And I'm just really it's it's nice to be a part of it. Yeah. It's nice to just feel like I'm a part of something cool in my own state. Exactly. I've never felt this in my life. Yeah. To be honest. So there's like there's a specific new Mexican pride that will always have with us being new Mexicans. But there's something more like there's just a different feel that we haven't had until recently. Yeah. Coming from New Mexico, which is super cool. So if you guys haven't already looked at this time get online and check out the branding checkout three advertising. Those guys are really awesome. And we're we're we're here, and we're. Not going anywhere. You can find us on forms of social media Facebook Instagram Twitter, via at brandy C B R A N D, I S E A N. You can follow us on Instagram at design speaks podcast. Or of course, you can Email us brandy at brandy c dot com. To give us a shout out or a review on itunes. I order it. Please not feel free. Like, I need to go. Like, if you want find a huge, thank you to Vesper teen for allowing us to use shatter in the night is the intro and Atra to our podcast. And if you guys get any value out of this, please check us out on our patriot. We've got lots of different levels in various little Gifty type things for you. If you want to support us, we can't do this without you, whether it's a review or actual monetary support. It's this thing could go away if we if we can't keep it under keep it under control. So we we need you guys. And we're so happy to be able to share with you. We. Mask. When you say the will fade in Oklahoma state. Equal.

New Mexico soccer Sam MacLay Zach Rutledge New Mexico United New Mexico Mexico Instagram Michelle Mexico United Ernest Hemingway Peter Trevisani Allergies New Orleans Colorado Geico United Polk County unin Facebook
And They Will Inherit It

Latino USA

40:55 min | 6 months ago

And They Will Inherit It

"How shall I begin my story? That has no beginning. This is a spin on some expert on second. She's a housewife in New Mexico living in a small town. I was a child, it was called. San Marcos. Changed the name Zinc town. Zinc town New Mexico. You. A. The image is black and white dusty Rhodes clothes swain on laundry lines in the desert wind shacks with corrugated Tin Roofs, our youths go deep in this place. Predict Pines. Deeper in the mine shaft. Zinc town is owned a mining company, all the land, all the houses, it all belongs to the company I am in mind is way. Eighteen years, my husband has given to that mind. Living happy life with dynamite and darkness. This is how the film salt of the Earth begins. It's a portrait of a desolate place dominated by mining and by injustice. Mexican. Americans in town. Don't have running water in their homes while Anglos as the Mexicans call them to. Mexicans, are more likely to be killed in the minds because they're required to work alone. But anglos are allowed to work in pairs and Mexicans are constantly put down by their bosses and treated like dirt. On, this day on Esperanza 's husband is considering whether to go on strike with the other Mexican American miners, they want to demand equal pay and safer working conditions. What happened next in this small? New Mexico mining town is not just the plot of a dramatic film. It's real. The miners, the discrimination, the dangerous working conditions, and the strike. They're all based on a true story. From NPR and Doodo media, it's let USA. Hosa and today how a strike in a small New Mexico tell and the classic film. It inspired still resonate. Today. The film, salt of the Earth was made only a year or so after the strike and released in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four, it tells the story of our group of Mexican American miners to Ghana. Powerful mining company to demand their rights their fifteen month long strike includes some unexpected heroes and we'll explain that soon. But I you need to understand how radical the film was for the Nineteen Fifties. Politicians at the time were determined to root out secret communists from Hollywood. There were even public interrogation of filmmakers. Are you now have you ever been a member of the? Communist Party, this is audio of the interrogation of filmmaker Herbert Bieber Bearman in front of the House UNAMERICAN activities committee. To use this to. The motion, picture industry and. The Right? Not only be be Berman ended up serving time in prison and was blacklisted in Hollywood because of his suspected communist sympathies, and then he made salt of the Earth along with two other men who also been blacklisted. It seems pretty clear that salt of the Earth was an act of defiance. The government had sanctioned the filmmakers for his sympathies. So they made a movie that was unapologetically leftist. In one thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, four, the film was so controversial, only a few theaters across the US would show it. Salt of the Earth was essentially buried from public sight for decades. But in one thousand, nine, hundred seventies, she gano and feminist movements embraced the Phil. They saw it as an example of what social justice movements could actually look like. In two, thousand, eighteen producer. Traveled to Grant County New Mexico to uncover the story of what would come to be called the Empire Zinc strike. He wanted to find out how is sleepy mining town erupted into protest, and if almost seventy years later, anyone still remembers Sayer give them is going to take it from here. Before I tell you about what things are like in county. Now, I'm GonNa, tell you the story about how things were and we're going to start with our to Florida's. He was an important figure in the empire's ING strikes. Please come in. Thank you. My Dad Arthur. Florida's one hundred years old. One of the first. President Sir Locally. Local. Late Ninety is the name of the miners union in Grant County. By the way, we're going to hear about it a lot and our to Florida's was a union leader there in the nineteen fifties. Here, it's OK. Okay. I ever I have no problem with talking. Hundred. Be. Dumb. You're doing just fine. Sits in a wheelchair. His thin silver hair is neatly combed. His son. Larry leaves out a set of old photographs on the table. Here's head. Here's some of the actors from the movie, Clint Man Walking Out of the Union Hall Women Flannels and big brimmed hats smiling triumphantly at the camera. There's two is a full head of thick black hair. The photo is labeled local eight, Ninety Activists Nineteen fifty-three. I've come here to speak with our. Tutto. Because he is as far as I can tell one of the oldest living witnesses of the empire's ing strikes. Since our Tutto can't hear that while I write questions down on a piece of paper and hold them up for him to read. Our Two zero tells me about his childhood in Grant County. The place in the movie zinc town isn't real, but the county is dotted with little mining towns are Tudoz, does dad worked in the minds? His mother was a homemaker and our Tudo was a smart kid. He loved to read them before twelve. I had read the Bibles we time. Rectory Mike are tells me the story about a countywide history competition when he was in sixth grade, he made it to the very last round and then lost to drew very sad game to me and she said you want. But. You didn't get the number one, because it said, they can give it to a Mexican. That power fee of the company and they were hired by the company Company not time had a party. The Mexicans recruited differently, Mexicans were treated differently. He says, and the company are Tutto is referring to is one of several companies that owned mines across Grant County. A historian Eleanor Baker wrote a book about all of this called on strike and on film, and she explained just how much power the mining companies had. They own the land and houses in some towns, and another case is actually owned whole towns themselves, which meant they could discriminate all they wanted company head hundred were the anglo-dutch. Shack for the Mexican. Whole towns were divided white people or Anglos as they called them on one side and Mexicans on the other anglers were given higher paying jobs in the minds while Mexicans were forced to work underground for less. As a young man to flirt is left for the military and what he came back, he started working at the mine nearby digging zinc. The mind was run by the Empire's INC company when I came back from insurers treating me terribly. Said this is going to change. Our TUTA was a member of the miners union at Empire, Zinc Mine. Almost every mind in grant county had a union, and so there were a lot of little unions, but they didn't work together to negotiate contracts or better working conditions and their grievances were often ignored by the mining companies. Then in the late nineteen forties, something changed a representative from the International Union of Mine Mill and smelter workers showed up at our Tudoz doorstep. His name was Clinton Jenks he asked to go. Are you the one who's been complaining? Years. Were divided. We have no power. Laid Make Fun of. We are do something. This ashes, H. Moran. Each help. are Tudo worked with the National Representative Jank's to bring the Union's together into a single more powerful group that would represent all of them. It was called the Luke late. Ninety. By nine, hundred, forty, eight, five of the unions had signed on, they bought an old building in the town of Deming to be their union. A couple of years later in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, the miners contracts that empire zinc mine came up for negotiation this time, the workers demanded a fifteen cent raise two more paid holidays and a change to the payment system that favored white miners. But the company refused to negotiate. That's when the men decided to go on strike. The film salt of the Earth depicts these events with a little extra drama of two brothers. Very. And so again. Much like any other strike. It would be no settlement. The company said till them return to their jobs. The men set up a picket line blocking the entrances to the mine, the carried signs from the surrounding hills they walked for scabs. Miners were trying to cross the picket line to work. Empires in company drove minors from neighbouring minds in the county to try to cross the picket line to work others chose to come on their own. There's some important context we have to explain here. So remember this was a time of hysteria about communist infiltrating Hollywood, the government and unions, and in one thousand, nine, hundred, seven Congress passed this law known as the Taft Hartley Act. It redefined the relationship between unions and employers. But most importantly for our story, it included this provision requiring all union officers to sign an affidavit swearing that they weren't communists, and if they didn't, they gave up their unions right to have their grievances heard by the federal government. The local late ninety had refused to sign it, and the company had no intention of compromising with Mexican miners. Especially, those who might also be communists, this strike did not end. It went on and on. Into, the fourth month at least. Sixth. Companies still refused to negotiate. Then, in the eighth month lawyers from the empires in company approached a local judge are Tudo. Florida's said, they took advantage of a loophole they went to court said the guy. Coding a street, the company said that the strikers should not be allowed to block the road and the judge ordered the strikers to stop. And because the local eight ninety had refused to sign those affidavits promising, they weren't communists, they couldn't ask the government to help mediate the dispute. They were stuck if we obey the court. Strike will be lost. The SCABS will move in and soon as picket line is gone. If we defy the court. Our pickets will be arrested. The strike will be lost anyway. What happens next ultimately changed the fate of this strike turning it from an ordinary event into a historic one. If. You read the Jentzsch carefully, you will see that the only prohibit striking miners for picketing. We, women are not striking miners. We will take over your life. Women had been involved in the strike since day one, but they were often relegated to working behind the scenes cooking for the strikers, collecting donations, handing out leaflets, they were the wives, sisters, and daughters of the minors. But now, they had an idea. They would take over for the man. Those miners were not comfortable with the winds proposal and what would happen when the cops gung. And beat are women up. We're going to stand there and watch him. No. We'll take over. Anyway. And, we'll be right back where we started. Only worth. Even more humiliated. Brothers. Rather. I beg, you don't allow that. Moodley. Chosen to film. Is a way they acted specially the guy who was supposed to been the leader of the strike. This is maybe one of the most interesting tensions of the Empire's strike. The people who would have benefited most from having the women take over the miners were the ones who are against it. They were embarrassed. They knew that if the women were out blocking the roads, the men would have to stay home and take care of the kids clean. For, road of your fitting, instead of. Membership should the woman could wrote every adult living in town was given a vote instead of just the union members who are almost all men all those in favor that the sisters take over the picket line. So signified by raising their hand. All those opposed. Some men silently lifted their hands into the air. But it wasn't enough. Emotional has carried hundred and three to eighty five. And they wonder overwhelming to reenter. The women would replace the men on the picket line and so they came. They came from sink town in the hills beyond from other mining camps. Ten, twenty, thirty miles away. We know we have never seen before. Women who have nothing to the with the strike. Somehow. They heard about the women speed line. And they came. Meanwhile. The men took over at home to take the house, they found out to the wound work as hard. Announcing. This. Sudden change in social hierarchy wasn't easy for the men to handle in the film that includes the central couple. Esperanza and Ramon. Learned nothing from, the strike. Quality, are you afraid to having your side? You still think you can have dignity. Only I have none stock up. After you've been doing. I took a dignity. The Anglo buses look down and you hate them. Thing you're laid you dirty, Mexican? Climate. You say to me stage of play. You feel better him. Lord, and you shut up, you're talking. Who Women understood that they were fighting for more than just the men's jobs. They were fighting to be given respect, and despite the discomfort, the reality was that the men did need the women to win and the company knew that too. According to the book by Eleanor, Baker the local sheriff hired a gang of new deputies paid for by the Empires Company. Their job was to break up scuffles, but mostly they intimidated the women they would arrive at the picket line and threw tear-gas to try and disperse the crowd. They tried to drive their cars through the picket line. And at one point, even through the women in jail along with some of their children. And then in, January nineteen, fifty, two over a year after the strike had begun, the company finally gave in and agreed to negotiate with the minors. They had won all thanks to the women of Grant County. Crank. Did, one thing in Florida I'm concerned. We showed that the women. Could also getting tried. And me and management remain were. And Win as a had do. The men were able to go back to work. Thanks to the women and the miners received wage, increase, vacation benefits, pension plan, and the health plan. It wasn't everything they asked for, but the miners had also won the confidence that if they worked together, they could be powerful. and. Soon, the real story of the strike was being turned into a film. Salt of the Earth was shot on location in grant county new. Mexico using many of the real miners and their families as actors. Because the writer producer and director demand, you heard earlier Herbert, Bieber men had all been blacklisted in Hollywood. It was not easy to finish the film and when it was released in hundred, fifty four, almost no theater would show it. But in the decades that followed salt of the earth would be embraced by activists for its depiction of workers, Chicanos and women's empowerment. In. One Thousand Nine, hundred, Ninety two, the phone was included in the national film, Registry, at the library of Congress a symbol of its importance to American culture. Two weeks after I talked with our Doodo Florida's the local eight, ninety leader. His son informed me that he had passed away. He was a hundred years old. And myself coming back to the last thing he said to me during the interview. I've been reading up. On history. I like to read history. because. That, if you read history, you'll find out. How Tired. He said Dan. How. Holiday become powerful. And how they draw. Why? You, know what? Society. Greed. Greedy said is what dissolve society. At the end of the salt of the earth film as but on some looks triumphantly at the town. then. I knew we had one something. They could never take away. Something, I could leave to my children and this salt of the earth. With inherited. The miners victory, she seems to say, will mean a better life for future generations. It's been nearly seventy years since the empire zinc. Strike. So what did future generations inherit? A. Went Grand County to find out. Coming up Sarah discovers that the memory of a successful movement is hard to keep alive. Stay with us not the. Yes. This message comes from. NPR, sponsor better help a truly affordable online counselling service, fill out a questionnaire online and get matched with licensed. Bast suited your mental health needs whether it's depression anxiety or trauma better. Help will help you overcome what stands in the way of your happiness. Learn more at better help DOT COM and get ten percent off your first month with Promo Code, Latino better, help get help anytime anywhere. Until? Recently, admit Hong says he didn't speak out against racism. Because, he was scared. Off. Listen now on the codes which podcast from NPR. Hey we're back. So we've heard the story of a strike in New Mexico's Grant County in the early nineteen fifties, and we've heard about the film that inspired called Salt of the Earth. Now, producer Sarajevo takes us back to grant county to find out how the strike is remembered and what's been forgotten. So before we start this journey, I want to give you a lay of the land. You're going to hear a lot of names, silver city, Federal Santa, Rita? Hanover. Bayard, these are all towns in grant county all within about fifteen or twenty minutes of each other, and we're going to begin in the town of Bayard. Terry humble picks me up in front of the local library. He was a kid when the strike happened and remembers it pretty well. Later, he became a minor like his dad before him and a member of the Union, the local eight ninety. Now, he writes about the minds and he gives guided tours of the COWNIE. Usually it's in a bus, but today since it's just me, we take tropical world is closest. Let's go down to the Union Hall. I. Of course, we're in downtown Baird. Population Oh pretty close to three thousand. And you'll never get any bigger. It's completely surrounded by mountains and company land. From here, I can see the low colored hills and slate rocks and hills of mining waste. They look like Brown. Beige and red. Aquarium? Sand. Trucks. Pass says heading towards the mind, the men inside them where neon reflective vests things in pretty quiet this morning. Yeah. Yeah. It's a quiet little town. This is our union hall here. This was the union. Hall also during the Salt of the earth, strike metaphor it. No. Not The local late ninety union hall is still the original old building. They bought back in the nineteen forties. It's where the miners used to meet during the strike. It was also a community center. It's where they held parties, baptisms and other celebrations. A mural on the front wall of the building tells the story of the Empire's INC strike. There's even a painting of the women with their signs dancing in a circle and laughing the women. Of course, we'd get out and bass once in a while just for something to do carry their placards. If you go to open the door of the Union Hall, you'll find it locked. Looking through the window, it's like someone left for the day and never came back. There's a local eight, ninety member jacket hanging on the wall filing cabinets, full of documents and a bottle, of course, medicine half half-full, still sitting on one of the desks and I used to have a key, but the the all locks. In the years after the empire strike the local late ninety hit a rough patch. Financially, they burn through a lot of their money defending themselves in court for their refusal to sign that affidavit that confirmed. They weren't communists and for arrests made during the strike. But. Still. Terry says, the unions based remains strong for decades and we would always have anywhere from I would say thirty to one hundred people on our monthly meetings because it was a large union. I don't know it had several hundred members. We almost invariably have some of the old timers that had retired years ago, but they were so strong union boy. They were there to to give support and they would always get up and give a little talk to the newcomers you know to let them know says, it don't take what you've got for granted. You know you're getting a fantastic wage and benefits don't take it for granted because we. Had to win it for you. The metal mining industry can be unstable when demand is high, the minds hire more people when prices dip companies, lay off minors or even shut down their operations. In two thousand, eight hundreds of miners were laid off here from the minds after copper prices went down under two dollars a pound. And so even though the union one important benefits for the miners couldn't entirely protect them. The younger people in this town? No. You know much about the history of what has gone down here in terms of the strikes in the union and the mind ear regrettably, no. The younger people had benefits when they started to work, they didn't have to go on strike or do anything. They didn't have to negotiate to get the benefits and they just figured they were there. They took him for granted. So it's unfortunate, but the younger generation does not know. That much about the history of the unions or seem to care. Unions, in Grant County have followed the trend of unions across the united, states in fact, rates of union membership nationwide peaked in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four, just after the empire zinc strikes. The number of people in unions has been on the decline ever since. The Way, Terry tells it every company that went on to own minds in grand. County tried to undercut the power of the union and every few years someone in the union apply for decertification. Basically, that means shutting the union down. They never got enough votes to pass it. Until two, thousand, fourteen. decertification was brought to vote again and it passed. That was the end of the late ninety. Terry drives his backup, the same main street that runs through Bayard, along the way, he points out the empire zinc mine. This is probably as close as you'll get to the line two years after the strike empires being shut down operation for time meaning many of those who had fought for better conditions, there were now without jobs. Eventually. The mind shut down for good in nineteen, sixty seven. The Tom Terry and our Tudo from Santa Rita is just a giant open mining pit now. Hanover in federal, the two towns where most of the empire zinc miners once lived are now mostly empty except for a handful of houses. But mining is still the largest employer in the county. You don't have to look far for evidence of that. Now, just six months ago. That mountain was. Fifty feet taller. That's Hanover Mountain, that's what they're gonNA. They're knocking it down all the way. And hauling it over to Santa. Rita. Because it's full of comfort. But that that thing was a lot taller. Six months ago. There are literally moving back to say they are. and. Then when they get down at the bottom and and get rid of the mountain, if the copper continues which they think, it does it'll be an open pit, just accent radio, they'll keep hauling. Yep. Someone's like in Verse Mountain. That's a good way to put it in an inverse mount. I make one more stop with Terry. We arrive at a bridge and get out. Talked on the side of the bridge, there's a small cement block with a plaque. Terry reads this bridge is dedicated to the mine mill women's auxiliary of Nineteen, Fifty, one, fifty, two. These brave women took over the picket line. The only sound on this little road is of the haul trucks from the minds, humming down the mountains in the distance. This is where the women used to pick it during the strike. People. I. Terry says that when of the Earth was made the strike scenes were filmed in hidden places away in the hills where no one could see because. If they came out here and tried to make the movie that people show up starts on rocks and stuff at home because it was so much bad feelings against the Union people even after to this day, you can talk to a local person that was alive or involved in any way. And you'll know in fifteen twenty seconds which side they were on. So. It's still something that carries weight for folks. Yes. It still has a stigma to it. Actually, they were talking about making the Union Hall, a Little Museum in I immediately got two phone calls from elderly. Anglo's that said, what in the world are they trying to do? They can't stir that stuff up. We've got to stop them and I mean, that was just a year or so ago. But the strike still has admirers during one of the anniversaries. Terry remember seeing lots of Latinos many of them who had lived in the area, but moved away. The came back to pay their respects, and they're also newcomers to the town who were curious about the history boy one time. One of the salt of the Earth anniversaries I think we had five buses and must have had eleven, cars following the buses and people got here, and we even at that time had a couple of the old ladies that were on the picket line. One of them just passed away a few days ago. The woman who passed away just a few days before I met Terry, her name was one assira. There's a video of her from one of the salt of the earth anniversaries standing in front of his plaque surrounded by a small crowd. One is describing being taken to jail and beaten by Sheriff's deputies. In the hope that you'll. Feel the way they used to feel. When they took us over there. Die I'M GONNA die for my people. Mom. This is the only voice you'll hear in the story of one of the women who walked the picket line in the empire. Strikes. To tell you the truth when I went to New Mexico, I was mostly interested in hearing from the women, but there were very few left. There's one named Rachel, why tried to meet and to call over and over, and she clearly didn't WanNa. Talk. Remember the strike happened in the nineteen fifties. So most of those who participated are gone or dead, the people that were old enough to actually be on the picket line as adults there may be one or two other women left so. I don't know of anybody for sure. That's alive. Grant County is shifting landscape full of hollowed spaces, visible and invisible. Tunnels that go for miles, pits that expand mountains that shrink. And the collective memory that wants tied these communities together is also like the mountains slowly disappearing. Later, that night I had to the House of Willy and the Sola. He was a small kid when the strike happened, I wanted to hear what will he remembered from the strike and his take on what's happened since? The inside walls of Willie's garage are covered in bumper stickers that say things like wish you were beer or everyone needs something to believe in all have another beer. I will meet you say or say or citing Sangre cited Sunday. said, there's a little fire crackling in the furnace and Willie's friend. Roger is with us. You can hear in the background sometimes. Came to you happen the strike. Terry humbled. Theory. How well now, there's some good information with very. Well, how contain? I, was really to smaller. At the mind. That said a radio. Button. To support women from. Willy's mom was one of the women strikers. He was about six years old and what he remembers most clearly is the day that he was taken to jail. This was when the sheriff's deputies were trying to intimidate the women. If they were with their children, the kids were also put behind bars. Brother was a baby. And I remember. These policemen, we manafort going, GONNA, turn my arm off. And put them in the car. That, because to jail. was to, democratic. A growth of Israel passed out because we were small and we're in the back, we can braces with. But the women to come. One of those women was one a Sierra, the striker who passed away the other day. Did you don't forget? Did you ever watch the phone? Do you remember watching the? Not. At the. Moment they want to see. A DAD DMC. So, we didn't get to see it. Because this is that going to help you know make? Things worse. Because sometimes I would. Wake up reality. No. Days. Maybe. Maybe. I. Don't think. Springs. Memory. The been. Memory is a sensitive thing for Willie and for many of those who lived through the strike. I've heard of other children of strikers who've also never watched the film. Even though the strike was ultimately successful for the strikers, children, many of whom were too young to understand what was happening. It was a scary time. Of course, in Grant County. It's hard to avoid reminders of that moment. Especially, the minds themselves who's abandoned entrances, you can see from the road. Willie also went on to work in the minds in the benefit school. Took us the Union. There were bringing people from more people to be supervised. He says, he was asked to be a supervisor three times and he didn't want it. But the strong unit girls old-timers. Look take said, look what the do to is people. Around here you know and you are. So finally we said, yes, a mom talking to me. To Go movin diesel. Englishman. So. She was really disappointed sold or sell out is what she called him. Willie and his mom didn't speak for three years. In her eyes, her son was cozying up right next to the same people that are dragged her to jail when he was a child. They were able reconcile, but his mom's still talked about the union. She always told me okay? Don't forget to forget we union in here. Will he says his children didn't show much interest in the history of the strike and he encouraged them to get an education. So they wouldn't have to work in the minds. So they could kind of freedom he didn't have including the freedom to forget. On my last day in Grant County Mary Lou Chavez takes me to a cemetery in the town of Fiero. It's one of the towns where of the miners from the Empire Zinc strike lift, it's mostly abandoned now. In my search for people who remembered the strike Mary Lou is one of the last names on my list. She's wearing sweatpants in a hoodie with Minnie mouse printed on the back. Mary, Lou reminds me. There's a funeral tomorrow, the one, the Sierra, the striker who passed away the other day. These lady, the tomorrow. To her brother's got killed. In the main. WanNa. See the grapes. Mary. Lou, a part of a committee in charge of the upkeep of the cemetery and the church. The last two monuments of what used to be. Federal. Discounts and walk around cemetery and Memories are here. I, wish. Those old base we're back. She remembers how they used to leave their doors unlocked how the neighborhood kids were dart around each other's houses, playing cowboys and Indians. The cemetery is freckled with worn down tombstones and crosses a big metal says watches over the place. From here, you can still hear the sound of trucks coming down from the mine see. Ninety, forty, seven. We approaches set of graves. As is going to get sued. Tomorrow. She points to a little plot of unoccupied or. WanNa, will be buried. Ask Her, whether she thinks the next generation will take on the upkeep of the cemetery when she's gone, we hope so. We hope so. Do. Mary Lou tells me. She plans to be buried in the cemetery to surrounded by the people she grew up with. The miners and striker's the kids she used to play with. Every social movement has to contend with what the next generation will do with its victory and grant. County is no different. What the strikers fought for was better wages and working conditions. But in another sense, they fought for the future of their children. And those children, the salt of the earth date inherit something that could never be taken away. Choices. To, stay or to leave to keep the union or not to work in the minds or not. To remember or forget. And what the next generation does with those choices, their inheritance will be entirely up to them. Our. Thanks to producer. Sarah, vital for reporting this story. Special. Thanks to Sara Maloney Sonya Dixon Roger Duarte Michelle Kells. Leary Florida's and Ellen are Baker who wrote the book on strike, and on film Mexican American families and blacklisted filmmakers in Cold War America, and if you're interested in learning more about the strike, you can read testimonials from strikers and their families online at the salt of the Earth recovery project linked on our website. This episode originally aired May of Twenty nineteen was produced by Sergiu with an edited by macadam. The USA team includes Neo Messiahs, Sophie Bunny, Sarkar newest rates. Janice MOCHA will yet the Martinelli Jillian. Elisa's Garcia and Alexandra said with help from pro bits. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebeau and Julia Caruso Additional engineering this week fight, Leah Shaw. Our director of programming and operations is nothing lieke. Their hearts are digital editor, his among the Contra or New York Women's foundation. Ignite. Fellow is only at check for interns are Sofia, Sanchez, and remained Osa. Our theme music was composed by saying it will be knows if you like the music you heard on this episode stopped by let USA DOT ORG and check out our weekly spotify playlist I'm your host and executive producer maniac. No wholesale. Join US again next time, and in the meantime, look for us on all of US Social Media Stabili Joe. Latino USA. Is made possible in part by. The Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. The John D and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation. And W K Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where children come first. Is they are. Say. Are you ready.

Union Grant County Tom Terry producer Florida Hollywood New Mexico Tudo Union Hall Eleanor Baker US miners union Zinc Mine Grant County New Mexico New Mexico Esperanza Mary Lou Florida NPR
A Governors Job And Butterflies

The Children's Hour

53:55 min | 2 years ago

A Governors Job And Butterflies

"Who is the Queen of the insects? I know the monarch. Thai shelters. So much. So much. In the gap fans around. We. Man. So much. Out so much. And you may have. And you may have to win some all get. Get their way. Got so much. So much. Mm. It comes along for you to go out in the world just off hand in friendship and random word keep on your face and a half bean. You step. Big big ways. You got to guess. I know. Dot. Up. Out by plow. Hey, that was me we featuring flutter be and DJ Mike from a CD called hip. Hop for kids me, we is M E E W E E all one word and so much love to give. Indeed, we do. This is Katie stone. You're tuned to the children's hour. Welcome to everyone in the room. Hello, everyone in the room. Hi, everybody. There we go. There's actually a lot of people in the room, but they're putting finger puppets on. So it's kind of distracting we were distracted by all the finger puppet. What can we say finger puppets will do that to you? How I I we're getting pictures. They're posted right now to Instagram. You can follow us on Instagram that posts onto Twitter and to Facebook into all kinds of places, and we're so happy that you're all with us today. So I'm Katie stone. Let's come around the room right over here and see who's in the room with us. Hi. Hi kilo. It's haley. Hi chaban. Good morning. I'm sienna. Hello. This is Julia good morning. I'm kaya. Zen. Hello. This is taffy via heights days. Hey, it's Maya will everyone. It's so great to have you. Hello. We're back in studio here at K UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico on the campus of the university of New Mexico and any news in the studio other than there's little critters on people's fingers everywhere. Yeah. Please come to the mic today. I find out if I made it into a musical. Oh, the stressful. Pure U2. are you at the same school by chance to curious now? But we are both to cardboard playhouse calls. Oh, today's the day when the show parts are announced. Yes. So what you have to do to try out for a musical. We have to addiction and we have to sing like a minute or two of song. And then you do like little improv games, and it's really fun. And then you find out later, and what's the musical Allison wonderland. The musical junior. Well, good luck to you both. Yes. Please lush. What to the we set in stone the date? I'm getting braces off which is sometime in April. I think oh thank goodness. That feels like a long process doesn't it braces for the science limpid tournament. My school got third place congratulates. Wow. That was next week or last week. Yes. And you're going and we go to state. That's really exciting. Wow. Super cool. Well knows is good news for me except. Yes. Oh, oh, hey, we we forgot over here. Working at the board. Our engineer and training, miss Eliot high. My school had moral UN, and I won best position paper. That's awesome. We are super excited about the show. We have interviewed the governor Michelle Luhan Grisham Sienna. You were part of that interview. What what can you tell us about that interview? What was what was it like? It was pretty fun. She governor Michelle Luhan Grisham was really funny. She was funny kind of made fun of me a little, but that's okay. I've thick skin. I just thought she she did a great job with you guys. And you asked such good questions. And I know they're questions that all kinds of kids who are listening right now have themselves including about park testing. And what's going to happen this year with park testing? We're going to get right into it. You are tuned to the children's hour, but first we're going to go to a little of this the governor's right hand woman is a woman named Nora Sackett. And she told us this cool thing she told us that you used to play the song called nora's room. And she always thought it was so cool that you would play it because her name was Nora. And this one is going out to you. Era. This is the children's hour. Rationed FANG crash bang. Special crash bang, boom. Thanks. Crash bang. Pressure. Girls. Downside, boys. Lots outdoors special fresh. Much noise. There's a little girl me sounds like the whole city got freed sounds like the pair is dancing with the moose dance when they're on. This says hippo hippo pickup and drop were sixteen conspiracy off a truck go a couple of guerrillas play duck duck duck goose thing. On. Bridges, really falling down. A couple of giants are sitting on account. Forty seven are talking on the phone to forty seven dogs are fighting for phone thing wrench bane. Bang. Rodeo ride upstairs refund of rhinos planned musical. Chairs. Sounds like a dump truck. It's Joe elephant hoedown swing. Your trump? Room. Girls. Sounds boys. Lots of noise on the sign on her door to enter if you dare so I just say what's going on? Pressganged pressure. Bang bang. Today on the children's hour. We have governor Michelle Luhan Grisham here with us. I'm Leela Allen. And I'm Sienna Allen, describe the job of state governor and the balance of powers between you and the judicial and the legislative branch. Well, so we'll do the ladder question. I rate that we operate much like our founding fathers for the US constitution that if you're going to have an effective government with write checks and balances, right? You've got policymakers that your legislative branch, those are our representatives and state senators, then you have to have an executive so they set the policy, and then I have to implement that policy. So it's my job to take every idea that they pass. And if I think it's a good idea I sign that Bill into a law, and I have to then meet the requirements of that loss. I operate the government. And then the judicial branch is really that check and balance there the oversight function make sure that if there are challenges or questions about who's doing what that there's someone who can make a final decision, and you have that kind of accountability and oversight. So or all co-equals were all independent. I can't boss them around directly, and they can't bus me around, and it is really the hallmark of an effective democracy. Otherwise, you have all the power focused on one person or one entity. And it is not a fair representation to the people that you are serving. So I think it's very effective model, and I get to do the fun work to implement all these good ideas. What isn't average day? Look like, well, I never really no there's no such thing as an average day. So the beauty of my job usually. You're achilles. Heel is also your greatest strength like advocacy, you get passionate about everything. But sometimes it's hard to be. Focused so a governor's day. But yearly right now with the legislative session is I don't have much control. So it's communicating like this radio show today and dealing with the media and getting stories out. It's meeting with my leadership team making sure that we're on track to get our work done for the day. Then I've got a take meetings for people who have emergencies or could be a wildfire somewhere or an issue with an airplane or an airport or hikers who were lost. I have to send out the national guard. I've got legal issues that pop up, and I've got to get my lawyers all ready to go make sure that they're taking care of that. I have constituents that come into our office or call us, and they have problems all kinds of problems that can't get their benefits they lost their, Medicaid, which is a healthcare benefit of they're worried about childcare, and we've got to get all of that figured out. And then I get to meet with constituents who just want to know what our priorities are. And they wanna be able to weigh in. So. It's a lot of hands on work. It's a lot of traveling. And it's a lot of meetings, and it's hard to control it because it depends on what's going on every single day sort of dictates. What might they is? Like do you live in the governor's mansion? What's it like, so I do live in the governor's mansion? So most states have a governor's residence or a mansion and in some states, the governor is not required to live in it. But in our state, you are if the governor chooses not to live in this beautiful Santa Fe mansion, then it goes to a foundation, and then we may not be able to use it for the public in the way that we want to because it belongs to all of us. So like all the governors before me once we had a mansion I live in the mansion, and it's beautiful and incredible. And I've learning things even though I grew up in Santa Fe, it's on thirty two acres joss a an area. Still refer to as north hill sort above where they do Zober above fort MARCY, and it's got stables empty. It's got incredible yards and incredible view on a hill. It's got this big public part where we showcase art, and we invite dignitaries and legislators and kids who are interested just like you are making a difference in their community to come over. And a look at it and have a tour and have a meal come to a reception, and then there's like this area where they call it the private residence, and it's got three bedrooms, a kind of a guest area for for dignitaries and an office. And that's where I live. Do you work twenty four seven around the clock? So I get sleep. I do but I'm on call twenty four seven, and I've always had jobs that are difficult for something. I like to refer to as a good work life balance. But my. Days start pretty early. I often will work from six thirty or seven in the morning until eleven or twelve o'clock at night, and I work weekends to are you still governor when you travel, I am and governors are required to travel with folks. So in New Mexico, and so do most of the states, I actually have state police officers assigned to me to make sure that the public who's interacting with me is always safe and to make sure that I'm always safe. So even when I go on vacation. So if I were to go hiking in the summer, a state police officer has to go with me and has to hike with me. So I can't fit that I will hike ten miles when I only did too because they tell on you. So when I travel even for personal reasons, I'm always the governor. Did you want to be a governor? When you were a kid. I don't think so it's hard for me to remember. When I first started to think about things I wanted to do in the real. I said, I don't think so as some of my friends and colleagues have said to me, oh, when you were first in the cabinet secretary running a department, you said that you really wanted to be the governor the attorney general, and I I'm sure I said that because I would get frustrated that I wasn't the ultimate decision maker. And when I was trying to right a wrong. I couldn't convince people that kids weren't safe or getting education support that they needed families who are taking care of their parents and loved ones and disabled children, they weren't getting the services and support that they needed, and I would get really upset, and I thought well, if I could be the governor or if I was the attorney general at all that legal power to protect consumers. So I'm sure I probably did say that. But it didn't come clear to me about the role. I might play until I got elected to my first office at the Berlin county commission, and I realized how much good you can do if you have the support of your constituents in. In a job like this. And so then I got really excited about coming home. And being governor of the state that I love and believe in. So who inspired you? I got lots of heroines in my life. But this probably won't surprise you. So our our listeners can't see that. You've got a mom and older sister here cheering you on. But you know, my mom was this incredible advocate. A woman who got married when she was just eighteen had me by the time. She was nineteen. She met my father in Hamburg, Germany. He was a captain in the air force. She was what they call. It's not very nice an air force brat, which basically meant she was traveling the world with her air force family and her dad, and she came to this little state, New Mexico and mean little by population, right and had no connection to it. And at three children and her her my my youngest sister who I've lost was only two years old and was really sick. And so here's here's basically a really young woman responsible for three children who has a real tragedy. In her family, and she chose to take that on and to fight against healthcare that wasn't meeting. My sister families needs against a state that thought that children with disabilities should live in institutions and should not be. They didn't believe in the sixties that you should even get to go to school for things like blindness and deafness let alone things that we called developmental disabilities or challenges. Now, we're clear these are special kids with special needs. And they have gifts that we ought to embrace and shares and promote and create educational supports the give them the same opportunities that we give to everyone. But it wasn't like that in the sixties, and my mom had no tolerance for it. And she ruffled a ton of feathers, and she made a difference for so many families. And so my mom is a clear champion in my life. And my dad did the same kind of work, and I was really lucky to grow up in a family of champions. How is being governor different from being a congresswoman can make decisions and just do them. Right. So if you say to me, how do you how do you ladies feel about park? I don't think that the effect of it are going to where they should be me too. And as a congresswoman I have to convince five hundred and thirty five other individuals, many of whom don't live in Mexico. Don't agree with me that my idea about high stakes testing is right. And then I have to convince even if I can get them to pass it. Then I have to convince the president that may or may not care about New Mexico Mexico's edge -cations system. We've got a president in my opinion, right now that doesn't believe in public education. Now, I just have to make the decision and then do it. And there are some things I need that independent branch like policymakers the legislature. So they don't give me funding that I can't find an assessment tool or an accountability. The vehicle so parents and students know where they are each year and can help direct the kind of educational support that they want, but I got to make -sition, and I get to direct the public education department, and that is awesome. What are you going to replace it with an how's it going to be different from the was going to be high sticks? Right. High stakes basically means that we just teach to a test. We want you to perform a certain way on a test. And high stakes means that everything is tied to that test score. Which means we don't teach anything else if you're not taking that test for the rest of your life, and at work, it has no relevance on your ability to problem solve or to to work in effect to all the new national studies looking at high stakes testing, including park say exactly what you said that it's making no measurable difference that it's not helping students at all. So we we're looking at maybe creating what we call a New Mexico tool. So it some kind of testing. But there's learning I, and there is looking at where you start and having routine checks about whether you feel and your educators, and parents feel like you're demonstrating in a number of ways just test that you're meeting your own personal education goals. So that feel like you can do more math problems, and you understand the concepts that you're feeling really good about where you are in writing and reading because you're reading both at home and in class, and you eating things that are valuable and important to you that meet your own goals and needs. So we're gonna have to think about a New Mexico tool, and we're going to engage parents and students to help us create it, and our timelines quick we're hoping to get all that work done. We've a whole new system place by this coming August. So will there be a park test this year? So there's going to be what we call a simplified version. So we're going to spend at least an hour and a half less on each component of park. So more. Time teaching less time testing. We're looking at whether the feds are going to give us permission to streamline how we're doing that more right now. And then we're going to be developing tools, and I don't wanna call him tests. I want you to help me figure out what that is for the rest of the year. But it would be an unfair and untrue statement to say that no educators going to pop into your classroom and say that you don't have to do some part of test. And I'll tell you why we have federal funds that come here that are tied to a plan. And the plan requires us to do some testing that looks a lot like the current park. And so if I don't meet most of the standards, I would lose federal funds. So you'll see less of it. See more teaching you'll get to have more pinions about what works, and what doesn't work. We think we can refine the subjects that we're focusing the the limited time in park testing. And then after this semester, we're not. And then we go to something that's meaningful next. Year. How are you gonna deal with the shortage of teachers? Well, I hope that you're going to help me I want you right now on the radio say, it's so fun for teachers to teach and that you are great students and you're so excited because we're going to need renewed energy and commitment, but there's things that government can do. Here's the easy things state governments going to respect teachers and everybody in public education and give them dignity. We're gonna listen to them and their opinions. Now, we have to do some other things that allow them to do what they want which is teach. We have to pay them enough that they can raise their own families in New Mexico. So the lowest paid teachers in Mexico, we're going to get a walking ten percent raise. No one will make less than twelve dollars in the classroom. So the men and women who keep your schools clean and drive. Your your school buses and serve you lunch. No one no one makes less than twelve and our goal is to be much higher than that. So overall six. Percent more in in in for teacher raises. We're gonna pay for all their extra education and professional developments of the actually get more raises. We're gonna lower their individual healthcare costs. There's more money in their paycheck. We're gonna do loan forgiveness and pay for school on the front end. So we've got a pipeline of educators coming in. We're gonna allow them again to teach in the classroom, and we're gonna pump about five hundred and one million dollars in the public education. And so it's an exciting time to be an educator in New Mexico. And we think that that will address our teacher shortage just one last thing. I know I'm too long winded. But there are things that we have to do all of that takes hold. So we're asking our retired teachers, you know, who who can and want to come back who's who students miss them and believe that they can make a difference. There's a thing called alternative licensure. So I'm a lawyer. So maybe I. Go to antique to civics class and mid school. So you find folks who have expertise who can help don't replace educators, but but help with those burdens of those oversized classrooms. So we're going to do all those things while we build a brand new pipeline of teachers and other public education workers that sounds like a good idea, and one of my classes, we don't have a teacher right now, what classes that my algebra class algebra class. OC we need a math professor from a college or a mathematician, or an engineer who's willing. Who's retired can come into a classroom and help and we actually train them to teach because knowing something doesn't mean that you're very good at teaching it. So we train you up. Right quick. And then we give them a special license that's never intended to replace a fulltime educator, but gets you the algebra instruction that you need just like to have some consistency of teacher until they can find a permanent is so important because this substitute teaching. Environment is really hard on the students. And honestly, it's really hard in the substitute teachers to what are your plans to deal with climate change, everything right? We have twelve years to reverse the the damaging and devastating effects of of climate change. And I think New Mexico should be identified as the clean energy state for the country. The most important thing that I can do is move away from fossil fuels the best thing I can do. So we're going to set things called Arp ES renewable portfolio standards. It's actually a hard Bill to get past in this legislative session. So this is a good chance for me to tell every kid out there listening to get involved, and there's lots of climate champions who are school age kids all around the state who are who get your parents involved because I need that Bill, and it would say that we have to do more geothermal more wind and solar which don't create greenhouse gases or. Sheen's they lower our carbon footprint and its renewable. Right. So we never run out of it. I need that. And I need to show that I'm joining the US climate alliance. So that I meet the Paris accord requirements, which is by twenty thirty forty five percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. This is how we start to reverse, basically. Right. The overheating of our planet, and I'm gonna do this in oil and gas because New Mexico has a lot of oil and gas. So we're leaking one of the most dangerous devastating greenhouse gases methane, and I'm gonna do something called methane mitigation recapture. So I'm going to require all these oil and gas companies to capture all their leaking methods of it's not out into the atmosphere. We use it like you do it's natural gas. And so we in it's cleaner than our fossil fuel. So we can use it. It's jobs for detection its job. Cbs for climate protection. It's also money that we could put in to say early childhood education. So there's all kinds of great ways that we can improve where we are. And then we can create one more thing called sort of clean energy standard. So it's telling everybody that all the utility companies that they have to have a better clean energy portfolio. What are you going to do that will affect kids? So we're going to engage young people in the health and wellbeing of our state. We're going to improve public education. So instead of fifty if we can aim to be number one, I'm calling it a moonshot I'm going to protect the earth the planet. I'm gonna create space for us to be the number one state for outdoor activities and outdoor economy, which means we're preserving the planet doing our part to reverse the damaging and dramatic effects of climate change. We're going to invest in child wellbeing. I'm gonna have a youth advisory council. So that young people give me good ideas about. What I should do as governor. So any they're listening anyone out there interviewing me may Katie cannot be on multi youth advisory council. She's just not young enough. But I do these fresh ideas key people invited in young people have great ideas. Those are just some of the things we're going to create a children's cabinet. I could go on for a long time children are going to be the focus of this administration. Thank you so much for being here with us on the children's hour. You are welcome. Thank you for having me on the children's hour. Listening to the children's hour will be right back. Supporting our community means a lot to Albuquerque based K and Molly textiles, which is why they're proud to support. The children's hour podcasts. Their print studio is committed to creating great jobs that include health and education benefits, leadership development and flexible hours for new immigrants and refugees and Albuquerque find their hand-printed towels at their retail store or in a store near you nationwide. Find out more at K and Molly dot com, that's K E, I and Molly dot com. The children's our podcast is made possible in part by meow wolf meow. Wolf your portal to the multi-diverse meal will proudly supports the children's hour Inc. Stick with us. We're talking butterflies next. Butterfly dance. Classes guide me come and spend some time with me. From is not depend you down even frown if you have to fly away. Into someone else's dream. Come and spend some time with me. Named or just Dolittle one. But if last I'll read away. I used to think the bud flies were meant for catch and tell the time account one and my net to home. Happy about the next. The next day was. But of fly buried in the meadow wear I founded fly and so free after high learned a lesson. If you love about a flaw. If you love let the. Butterfly, glad to see you back. Come and rest, your wings, my friend from was not to pin you down even frown if you have to fly away into someone else's. Come and spend some time with me. Just a little while. But you. Away. Away. That is the butterfly song by pink MARTINI, and they are a CD code. And this is where my French does not pan out Judy. We something like that the butterfly song pink MARTINI. You are tuned to the children's hour. We sure hope you enjoyed our interview with our governor, Michelle Luhan Grisham. She really has a lot of great plans. And I really hope the kids in particular heard her call to join her youth advisory board because she's really gonna need to hear from you kids to know what to do for you kids. And you know, what people who are your representatives. They don't know your point of view unless you tell them. So you can always write to our governor anytime and tell her your thoughts. Well, I'm Katie stone. You're tuned to the children's our whole crew will the people here. Hello. Hello cry. But we also want to introduce Mr. cliff Ross he is a friend of bees and butterflies also the director of celebrate planet earth, which is a community of kids who love and protect the earth. And if you go to celebrate planet earth dot org. You can join that community you can post exactly what it is. You do to care and protect for the earth. And join a group of kids all over the country who are planning seeds and taking care of birds, butterflies and bees as a way of taking care of the earth love that what cool thing. Well, you know, we have a lot of questions in studio for you. And so I start okay CNN's can start. Okay. Go for it. Go for echoed by either one of you. You're so polite. They're like, no, you know, you, okay. How long is the butterflies life-span? Well, different butterflies have different life spans. But the ones that were most familiar with tend to be in the range of I would say about a little over a month. And basically the way that goes is after they hatch is nag the be a Caterpillar usually for a week to ten days, they'll go into their chrysalis and be in between if you want to know what they're doing they'll melt and kinda hang out in that Christmas for another week. And then when they emerge they usually are adults where they flutter among the flowers among themselves for another two to three weeks. So here it is. It's we're broadcasting today in February. And I always think the butterflies I've always imagined all the butterflies. We see in the summer here in New Mexico or anywhere. They go on what I would do if I was about fly, they go to Mexico, and they relax and they live there for a while. And I guess the curiosity is first of all is that really true to all the butterflies migrate. And second of all those butterflies. Do migrate the only live four weeks. So how do they get all the way to Mexico in four weeks? Well, what ends up happening actually there? Two groups of butterflies paint migrating butterflies in this hemisphere. The painted lady butterflies in the monarchs and both of those do basically start their season with the rainy seasons in Mexico and the eggs all hatch. And then they begin to migrate north. And what happens is they'll go through their lifestyle multiple times during the migration. So as they go up to Canada, you might get two or three. Generations of painted lady or monarchs and upon and with the monarchs do the monarchs actually will migrate all the way back to Mexico where the painted ladies will turn around, but they won't quite get all the way back. So it's usually the butterflies that stayed in Mexico every year that are the source of the next year's butterflies. And that you get these other butterflies migrating with the seasons up and down as the flowers bloom. But there are a lot of other butterflies that don't migrate. And with those guys do is what the difference is when it becomes winter when it gets cold that has a direct effect on their life cycle. It really kind of like they don't hibernate, but it really they really slow down. So then that im- between state when they're pupa that normally is a week under in the summer in the winter. Can last six weeks to two months to three months? And so that's how they over winter and not freeze there. In insulated little pupa buried somewhere in the woods. And when things heat up or warm up they'll emerge butterflies, what types of butterflies live in New Mexico. Oh, we get a whole slew of butterflies. But the ones that most people really know are the swallow tells in the painted, ladies, I think are the two most kind of dominant once in a while we do get a monarch coming through. But most of all the painted lady. Butterflies migrate through and you'll see them all summer. They're the ones that have that Brown and orange color and they migrate through generally back towards Mexico in September October. So we on Camis bushes and those late blooming flowers in the fall, you'll see the mutter flies. They migrate back through the state. Are they living off of nectar is that what they eat? So they they caterpillars live off of a different food source. They live off the different host plants leaves and the green part of plants, but the butterflies once they emerge. Get all their calories from the nectar that they and unlike bees, they don't turn it into Honey, they're able to actually just use the pure nectar as their primary source of water and. Retrea what what's the main thing? And then you mentioned this off Mike, but butterflies have been with us, a very longtime eve Lucien airily, how many years did you say over seventy million years. And so we were talking off the mic, wouldn't it be hilarious to imagine a butterfly landing on a dinosaur? Is that even a possibility? Indeed, however, nine times out of ten if it was a predatory dinosaur. Probably eat it free calories. Oh, yikes. What are the other enemies of butterflies? Dinosaurs about those fascinating things about butterflies. When you look at them is their whole way of flying. There flutter is actually designed as a way of their survival from predators because that odd little flight pattern makes it really difficult for more difficult for birds who who love who. Who feed off butterflies to actually zone in and catch them too little evasive maneuver they've developed, but primarily birds are the only ones who can reach them while they're flying. How can we help the bees and butterflies so they can help us better. Well, the key. I think the one thing that we really stress if you really wanna take cares of bees and butterflies plant plant seeds plant flowers because what ends up happening is. It's only when these migrating butterflies come through. They're going to be dependent on flowers opening up with nectar to feed them. So if you wanna feed them plant flowers, and what's beautiful about that is once you've done that the initial time afterwards every time the butterflies pay for that by pollinating, those flowers and creating more seeds. So your flowers will. Eventually grow into these beautiful giant corridors which the bees and butterflies can fly there fly zones there flying mounts, and what kind of plant stupi and butterflies like to eat. If there's a flower in all probability, there's a B or butterfly who's feeding off that flower because what happens is the flowers put out a little bit of nectar, and the flowers are very smart that they will put every day, they won't put all the nectar out. They'll put a little out every day. So that the bees and butterflies will return to it increasing the chance that they will be pollinated. So it's a win for the flowers. The powers that what we call the butterflies in the Bs there and the flowers, they're all what we call we beans, which means you don't get one without the there's no such thing as I happy butterfly without a flower. There's no such thing as a happy be without a flower. They. Just really they need each other completely to to be. And so that's what we call them we Bs. That's why there was no butterflies before followers around be. Because of the fact that they're completely relying on each other interesting, and yeah, that's fascinating. And so if folks do wanna get involved you brought some I'm him you brought some seed packets here for us to plant you brought us sunflowers. And so if you go on at celebrate planet, or what we do is we distribute we give out lots and lots of sunflower packets. We give out probably a couple hundred thousand packs of sunflower seeds out every year for kids all over the country to plant we give out in the spring. We sent out live butterflies for anybody who wants to take care of and nurture live butterflies. We have those available and what I brought in to the. Studio are these pet little bees and butterflies that were made by the women down in the rainforest for us. And what we do is when we pay them to make these little pets for us. And we bring them up here. Because what we discovered is. Why one of the really tragedies not tragedies? But if you ask people what is their favorite pet? Most people will not say bees or butterflies. And the reason is obvious ABI that stinger just seems to get in the way and with butterflies they seem a little too fragile. So we finally solve the problem by having these women hand-knit, these pet bees and butterflies, and what's beautiful is you get all the advantages of any pet with these bees and butterflies you can Pat him, and you can also really what's wonderful about the bees in the butterflies. Is they have a whole language of themselves that they are there. There. You can get all the benefits and the wisdom of beef and a butterfly from the Hannett bees and butterflies I love it. Celebrate the earth celebrate planet earth Saleh -brate planet, or or or and we'd love anybody who hears this go on post, and we will make you a lifetime member. And we will strew to you everything you need to continue to enjoy taking care of the bees in the butterflies and the flowers and seriously there is nothing else. You can do that one other question somebody was asking what could a lot of people are very concerned about what's happening to be and Honey bee populations over the last several years have been kinda decimated by a virus a bug that seems to be taking them out. And there's. Really wonderful news now that there's a little fun goods that if you add fungus to the water of the bees, it seems to fortify their immune systems and could be the key to the rebounding of the bee populations. So people should keep their ears open. And find out what we'd love eventually is to have a whole community of kids who are out there, helping the bees by putting fun guy out in their water as well as planting seeds and butterfly planting seeds for their food. I really if we take care of the bees in the butterflies, we take care of all of us because it's the bees and butterflies that I brought here. Some giant some wonderful Buckeye tree seats, these earn example of a seed that would not be here if it weren't for a be taking that extra bit of energy to get up to one more flour. And pollinate that flour. And what got created is this beautiful tree. Seed and inside this is a baby tree that's going to give us the oxygen. We need to breathe it's all in there. And this wouldn't be here. If it weren't for the bees. So if we take care of the bees, we're taking care of ourselves. We take care of the butterflies we're taking care of ourselves. And so my job here is to really just see if I can get more of you two more kids out there to step up and join us in helping taking care of the bees in the butterflies. Thank you so much cliff. It's been great to talk to you. Celebrate planet earth dot org is the web site. It has all kinds of information. And we just love our puppets. Everybody's playing with them. And here's thank you so much being with us on the children's hour. Thanks bye. Bye-bye flood. But pain. Flying. Stall and shine and why that time. Bye. The pain in. Bye. Bye. Then. Without stuff. Munching tasty. You think your? But. The pain. This. They call Chris. The children's hour is produced by Haiti stone and all of us on the children's our kids crew follow us on Instagram Twitter and Facebook to search children's hour radio we post from the show links to our podcast and so much more. We wanna thank everyone for being with us on the show. Thank you governor Michelle Luhan Grisham for being with us today. And also, thank you very much to cliff Ross, Mr. cliff the butterfly man, thanks so very much and coming up next on the children's hour. This is uncool Neptune. Listening to the children's hour. While. The. Lovely. Thanks. Thank you. Love makes. Flowed in. All. Love me. Love. Love makes you love me. Love makes you feel. It's the best time. Love make you reach them. Lovely. Saying week. Love makes you wanna get the world to sing. Love make Bill. Love me love make you feel is the best time. Lawmaking wanna reach them. Love makes you. Sweet. Love makes you. Oh well. Let me. The children's hour is a production of the children's hour incorporated. A New Mexico nonprofit dedicated to producing high-quality noncommercial educational children's public radio. Find out more about us and support our work at children's our dot word. Our theme music was written by CK Barlow. Let us know what you think of the show sign up for our public events and follow us on social media. It's all at children's our dot org. Thanks for listening. I'm Katie stone.

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