20 Episode results for "New Buildings"
Extra: How do buildings affect our health?
"And anti very warm welcome to Monaco on design extra. It's that many mid week show brought to you by the team behind. Monaco's dedicated weekly design program. And I'm your host Josh Bennett. Dr. Joseph Allen is an assistant professor of exposure at Harvard University and the head of its healthy buildings program. He's a man who knows than most about how architecture can affect our health happiness and yes our productivity to Allen is the CO author of a book healthy buildings and argues that even before the pandemic whole that time indoors up to ninety percent of it for some of us who is already affecting our health. Monaco's Charleville mcchord. A man known for his healthy curiosity spoke to Dr Joseph Allen and began by asking what defined a healthy building really where the healthy building movement comes from. It derives from what we've been in. Which is the sick building era buildings? These are under performing buildings where we don't feel well. In them we have higher prevalence of so called sick building symptoms. When we leave these spaces we feel better. And so we've been ear for about thirty or forty years so the healthy buildings is the opposite of that now. Do we go about designing and operating maintaining buildings in such a way that we're not chasing illness or disease prevention. It's more about. How do you optimize for health? Well being and performance in the first place and in the book we talk about the nine foundations of a healthy building. Which is our way of distilling down really forty years of scientific evidence on everything we know about how to design buildings better placing human health first and foremost making human health the priority some of them might even seem obvious to a lot of people right. We're talking about the basics year air quality water quality the thermal conditions in the space ventilation or how much outdoor air comes in and filtration things like lighting matter of course bio flick design and access to nature acoustics. These are well understood at this point what we've done in the book and in a reports from my Harvard healthy buildings team is trying to just synthesize this a bit and distill it down to these core elements so that is not so overwhelming and in our report you know we just have a page or two that says what is ventilation. Why does it matter for health? And what can you do about it and of course? This is all backed up by the peer reviewed scientific literature if anyone really wants to dig deeper but there's really only a handful of things we need to do to make a building healthy and there's this misnomer that healthy buildings are difficult. They're more expensive. Only Shiny. New Buildings can be healthy buildings. And that's simply not true so before this year actually where forensic investigator of sick buildings could you give us? A few examples of aspects of buildings were generally making people sick. Sure so I did this for many years. I still do this. And this is investing and importantly resolving sick buildings and this could be anything from cancer cluster building. I've investigated and resolved legionnaires disease outbreaks in hospitals. I've investigated resolve the basics around specis and mold and chemical hazards sometimes in school sometimes in airplanes and other unique indoor environment the sick building world encompasses all hazards that across the full spectrum so radiological hazards chemical hazards biological hazards even physical hazards and oversee from an architectural and design standpoint. There are a number of aspects of a building that can impact. You know how we use it and how we feel within it. What are the major ways? An architect or designer could change that building to make it more friendly and better over for health and wellbeing. I think maybe the first thing is not even so much what has to do with the building of course doesn't Porton but more importantly it's the shift in mindset right. I think architects designers need to think of themselves as being in the healthcare industry. First and foremost the decisions. They're making around. These buildings are ultimately health decisions. The decisions they make will determine whether or not somebody in their building is healthy or not and I think once that mind set happens. That shift happens then. It changes how we approach buildings. So then what would you do differently to optimize health? And I'll give you classic example we've chronically under ventilated buildings globally largely in our efforts to conserve energy. And that's critically important but it is comet this trade off to health indoors so we've Soto tightened up our buildings. We've stopped letting them breed to hit these code. Minimum outdoor air delivery rates that come with real detrimental effects to people's health and performance indoors. The reality is it doesn't have to be this dichotomy of a false choice between or health we can do. Both we can have buildings that are both energy efficient and also optimized for health. In fact we have to do that. You said that the environmental movement may not be at odds with the healthy building movement. That they can co-exist ventilation filtration things like that and light. How would you say would be the best ways for architects and designers to bring that into existing buildings or even an existing room? A lot of these changes that can be made right now and nearly every building many buildings if not most can certainly increase the amount of fresh air comes in they increase the of filtration to make sure that air coming in is cleaner and the recirculated air is also cleaner and being filtered in terms of nature and lighting and views we can incorporate elements of biofilm design into buildings right now so this matters in terms of the design choices. You're making terms of the products you bring into the place and both living actual living walls actual nature and also bio morphing shapes and patterns. So there are things we can do in every building right now in fact enthrall my years of doing these sick building investigations. I never once came across a building even the worst performing building that we couldn't fix all it really required was just a little bit of attention onto the building systems and the choices that are being made in the space and not much additional cost and in fact if you add in the benefits to people relative to cost then the cost become absolutely trivial compared to the benefits you can expect in the building going forward during the cove nineteen pandemic health is a massive issue. And it's been brought to the forefront. How do you think buildings are going to adapt and change to accommodate this? I've been on record Going back to early February that buildings have to be the front line of defense against covered nineteen and there are simple steps. We can take right now. I've written extensively about this but thinking longer term with all this uncertainty one thing is absolutely crystal clear. People's expectations will be different for many. This is the first time they're thinking about the field of public health or recognizing just how impactful the built environment and buildings in particular are on their health and their families health and their friends help even myself. When I go back to my office I haven't thought much about things like the door handle but going back into these places. We're all going to look at it differently. I notice things like the ventilation in my buildings. Another buildings I think. Other people will to designers architects builders. Investors should really mindful here that this is going to quickly go from. What do we have to do? In terms of infectious disease transmission and that will stay at the forefront for awhile but the question will then evolve quickly from the side of the tenants and people occupying buildings. What else is this building? Doing what else should be doing for my health beyond infectious disease. What about acoustics? What about lighting? What about water quality? So it's inevitable that these are the next set of questions that will come and healthy. Buildings will become not just nice to have. But they'll be must haves many thanks to Dr Joseph Allen. His Book Healthy Buildings is published by Harvard University. Press and he was speaking to Monaco's Charlie Film Court for more designed to lights. You can listen to full length. Show which has on Tuesdays at eight PM. London time you can subscribe see that Miss Napa you can listen to it. Thereafter as a podcast. Wherever you download those you can also delve deep into our back catalog and listen to our full archive of design shows from over the years. You should also probably see cow a copy of monocle magazine and if your nearest newsstand disclosed than of course I would recommend a subscription had to monocoque dot com for more about that in the work we do plus a full live radio coverage throughout the day weeks months and years. Today's episode was produced by the ever. Patient May Lee Evans. I'm Josh Fenner. Thank you very much for listening and goodbye.
Cities are trying to limit gas hookups in new buildings chefs are 'horrified'
"Oh no not my gas stove. I'm NPR chief. Meteorologist Paul Hunter. This is climate cash burning natural. Gas Emits about half the carbon of coal but producing and burning natural. Gas is still a major source of greenhouse gas emissions. That's why some cities are trying to limit or outright ban gas hookups for new buildings as part of their climate action plans. Minneapolis and Saint. Paul want to move away from gas appliances. But what would that mean for those who love to cook over a natural gas flame? Tom Philpot is the food and add correspondent for Mother Jones. He joins me via skype today. Hi Tom Hippo. You report the gas stoves account for only about three percent of overall household gas used. The rest comes from heating or air or water so why focus on what people cook with. I don't think people really care where they're he'd comes from right. You don't say I want natural gas heat. Electric is fine. As long as it's keeping you warm but the thing that people will the man is keeping their gas stoves and we've got to figure out a way to make people not do that. Because in order to address climate change with basically have to stop essentially all gas use. Where is this happening? Tom Whereas there a push to ban gas hookups. Well we haven't seen a push yet to remove Asoka so we're seeing so far is a push to remove gas in future buildings and so far a couple of places like Berkeley in California in a couple of other places in the bay area have done that and both New York and Los Angeles have announced plans to do it in the future and have we seen pushback in those cities. What we've seen so far is pushback from chefs. I talked to a lot of chefs for an article. I did and chefs are horrified at the idea of giving up their gas stoves. I talked to chef Chicago. He said that he would exit the business. If you had to give up his gas stove and I think that there is this clinging to the idea of seeing the flame. Come up and you know sort of calibrating. How hot cooking medium is by looking at the flame and that's really interesting. Because is that an emotional connection over cooking with gas flame or their technical reasons that it's smarter to cook with gas. Well add looked into it and it turns out you know most people when they think of cooking with gas they think of conventional electric coils at UC and they turn red turn them on right and everyone acknowledges that those are awful. The Cook with the controls not very good. So you turn it down in the coil. Stay hot for a little bit. That drives cooks crazy. But there's another technology called induction and the way that induction works is electric in it. Heats up the PAN magnetically in actually has greater control than gas in my reporting and also the you know. I've got a little induction range top that I've been experimenting with and I've concluded that most of the cleaning gas among chefs is emotional assists sort of visceral desire to see fire in their kitchen. Of course the savings with electric assumes carbon-free power sources so you could have electric power conceivably but if that power is produced from coal. That really doesn't help right. That's exactly right. But here's the thing when you turn on your guest of new flip that switch and that flame bursts you are cooking with a hundred percent fossil fuels and when you turn the switch on induction range or a regular electric range. What's going on? There is that you're getting it from the power grid and the power grid right now in. The United States is about sixty two percent fossil fuels and the other thirty eight percent is carbon. Freedom in this varies widely by region. This is just sort of the broader number so already you're sixty two percent better off in. It's literally getting greener every day. Tom Philpott food and ED correspondent for Mother Jones. Thanks for skyping with us on climate today. Thanks for having that's climate cast. I'm NPR cheese meteorologist Paul mm-hmm.
The real edge of the world
"Welcome to kiss myths and mysteries islanders. Host Kid crumb today the edge of the world. We'll call it lands lands end for this story. It's located at thirty seven point seven seven three nine latitude. One twenty two point two five degrees longitude. It's positioned in both the north and Western Hemisphere. Hint here is located in the western region of the United States bordered by the state of Oregon Data Arizona the country of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean. Give up the state is California. The edge of the world or lands end is a rocky and windswept shoreline at the mouth of the Golden Gate. The northwest corner of San Francisco long before Europeans arrived arrived in North America. The Aloni tribe lived at lands end in seasonal settlements. Here that the ocean's edge. They found everything they needed. Hillside Springs brings gushing with freshwater trees brush for shelters and easy access to the shore where they fished and hunted for Otters Sea Lions seabirds the Spanish settlement of San Francisco which began in seventeen seventy six ended the Aloni traditional life at lands end under Mexican rule this rugged luggage section of coastline was part of a large land. Grant called Rancho After California joined the US the only visitors to this secluded in inaccessible area were naturalists. Who braved the long journey out to the coastline to observe marine life after the gold. Rush San Francisco's population exploded. And the downtown became very crowded with new buildings and neighborhoods real estate developers. Lucky for new you ways to make money saw what is now called land's end and is unparalleled beauty and excellent place for a new restaurant. Overlook entrepreneur designed the new cliff house as a fashionable resort for the wealthy and encouraged San Franciscans to travel out to the city's edge to help people get to this far off place. A private company constructed a brand new road called point Lobos Avenue making travel to this picturesque rural place. Much easier by the eighteen sixties. A horse drawn stagecoach made the trip every day. Sunday from crowded. Downtown San San Francisco out to lance end during the eighteen eighties. Millionaire Adolph Sutro. Purchased property at lands and dramatically. Dramatically transformed the area into a popular seaside destination. Sutro strongly believed that. All San Francisco's rich or poor should take advantage manage of lance ends beauty to provide inexpensive transportation. He constructed a passenger steam train from downtown San Francisco. To Land's end for the affordable fare of five cents shooter designed and funded the elegant sutro Heights public gardens the famous sutro baths in the eighteen. Ninety six this clip house which replaced the original building after it burned but it says if spirit protects lands and cliff house burned to the ground three times times once was all it took to destroy the world famous sutro baths they burned in nineteen sixty condos or were under construction on the same side also burned today people visit lands and are never seen again the number of suicides climbs every year the National Park Service has rebuilt the cliff cliff house but sadly there is nothing left of the sutro baths. Still Ruins are worth a visit. The tunnels were used to direct ocean. Water to the three indoor. The pools are still intact and said to be visited by a bee's that crawls from the water and into the tunnel for shelter during storms. And it suggested that you visit the remains of sutro baths or the tunnels during the day. Because it said that the local Satanic Church wanders the ground by night and now you know were the original edge of the world or lands end. Dislocated liaison was produced here at night. All sound studio and brought to you by the Rogue Valley Metaphysical Library. I'm kit chrome. Thanks for listening.
The yellow sticker crunch - Wellington's earthquake strengthening problem
"Yellow stickers and the interest wise to hundreds of buildings and Wellington are a nagging reminder of the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to fix them up the properties, a earthquake risks from a railway station to a cinema to dozens of apartments for many of the apartment owners. It's crunch time. Fix them on, lose them. I'm Sharon Break Kelly today. On the detail quake-proofing the capital, and why it's such a problem that is extremely tricky from a legal from financial, and from a regulatory point of view in his lots of emotion, tied up in it as well so it is extremely unfortunate and difficult situation. Wellington City Councils. Mike Mean Dancer explains this difficult situation, but. But just listen to this. Somebody posted on on my twitter account and I'm quoting them. We wouldn't have much sympathy for anyone who gambled on. BITCOIN is retirement plan. Why isn't be stinging property? I need a friend that was the message to New Zealand hero journalist routine Campbell when she put out the call to Wellington apartment owners facing huge earthquake, strengthening bills at some massive assure for Wellington Sachet and I think it's one that is under reported on because things get very complicated very quickly. The science of earthquake engineering as an exactly an exact science moving based because every earthquake. We have with her. It was the ones in Christ church or the kyw colder earthquake. Things behind because they learn more about how earthquakes efface buildings, ancient seat on the backdrop of a very volatile construction industry, engineers and Wellington are in two minds, because it's such a big issue, so it just sort of tunes into a bit of a mess. I'm very quickly I think in hugely costly. Massive and big enough for Wellington City Council or the government when you give each apartment earners and building sort of described themselves as mom how people at? The capable and you know that sort of described it as putting them on the brink of financial disaster, really because it's hundreds of thousands of dollars, and so you've done the story about Michael Kamen who is facing a four hundred thousand dollar earthquake, strengthening bill for his apartment, and it's going to wipe out his retirement plan, but the interesting thing is that a looking at a picture of him right now and has it looks like a beautiful apartment. Could you tell that it needed earthquake strengthening nar? You'd have no idea and I think. One of the most frustrating thing is for these as a few tight the. Earthquake for example you had really new buildings for instance you know. Statistics House floors partially collapsed, and in that building at since demolished, and then you've got this building, which is deemed earthquake-prone and was fine in the Kyw coder is quite. It's still standing. You know you've got other buildings and Wellington. These one that I'm writing about the Mormon essentially. The wellesley hurt hound down the other end of town on Lenton. K, you know it was about more than one hundred years ago at has been given a three inch NBC's frightening, which is very very low in be standing for which is the new building standards? which sort of gives an idea bat? How scf buildings I in terms of human life, but this building built one hundred years ago is still standing, and you've got other buildings in our Belton in the past twenty years which crumbled SAR? I think that's really difficult for them to say inexperience. What is Michael Kamen story? How did you come across him? There was a committee recently, which hit about the Fisher and it's one that I've been aware of for a while, but a hidden creek Chen to and I thought actually I. Want to get stuck into the Saigon in touch was an associate Wellington, which is a residence association and that's how I came across Michael Cummins. Bash and called them up and said Hey. Can I talk to you about your situation and he had to it? Which I think is a big deal for these earners, because the sort of putting it out there that the property is not worth very much, and it's a major issue for them. It's hard to go on the record I. Think about the these kind of things and. His story and not Shell as Beckon Twenty team, the estimated cost to strengthen the building. Arna was about forty thousand dollars that still quite a lot of money rise, but fast forge to the end of last year, and that has since escalated and Mike was cast for four hundred thousand dollars so all out. That's going to cost about six million dollars to sort out the entire building, and after strengthening the building would be worth about thirteen million dollars leads unpick those figures ten years ago, Michael Cummins was quoted forty. Forty thousand dollars for his share and fixing the building that's blown out to four hundred thousand today, and because he's on a main road and a high risk seismic area, he and the other apartment block owners have just seven and a half years to sort it out. There's sort of a lot of factors that have played into some of them. Quite specific has situation. I'm sure you'll recall the plan for that by some reserve flyover. They weren't sure how that was going to feet. The building with are not the building would have to make wife that. They put it off. And then the earth quietly decisive change during that time as well which increase the standards, which means it would cost more to get the building to make the standards and I think as well as time's gone on. Things have become more expensive engineers and people working in construction aren a real demand, so that's. Pushed the Callsas Wellm? Remember the gun by backs. Game shortly will find out what that has to do with apartment owners struggling to pay for earthquake strengthening. Leads Wind Bake now and look at what makes a building a quake risk Mike mean. Dancer is the council's Chief Resilience Officer. A real fails and buildings in Wellington earthquake prone under the current regulations. Four hundred dollars buildings have already been. Attended to so we have about six hundred leafed in the city at Suny work. Most of them are private ownership and we're talking that Miceli apartment blocks no actually mostly commission there are. About fifty residential units negligible, but Kiefer because many buildings mixed use that as they are the commercial industrial, or they'll have an apartment in them as well, but they're about fifty data are residential. Only it has a apartment blocks in nothing else, is it the apartment block set at the most problematic because of the multiple ownership with them, apartment owners a feeling the pinch at the moment. for a number of reasons, one is is a time line coming up in twenty twenty, even where a whole bunch of those building owners. Will need to have completed the work by often. The are complications with the ownership structures such as a body corporate, which sometimes make it makes it difficult. He conceives his to get everybody to and beast in the building. So. Yes, apartment owners are under the gun at the moment in have been letting people know about it, but they're not the only owners they're about fifty apartment, only units and Wellington in the another five hundred fifty. That I mean we have to acknowledge that the says something that's happening across the country that buildings need to be earthquake strengthened and Wellington it seemed to be more of an issue than the rest of the country, a the whole point of these regulations to manage risk so New Zealand is divided into. into high medium and low risk zones for the people of this legislation, wanting and high-risk in mother, nature gives us a brutal reminder of that from time to time, so we we know we can expect. a moderate or large earthquake at some point in Wellington is the capital city really we, we have begun to be heat of the game and wintered this whole thing of needing to equate strengthen buildings. Come up! Was that Canterbury earthquakes now because we've known about this, Winnington we've been doing this for twenty five years. Following the quakes, the government made a call to what at what we were already doing to the rest of the country, so that was enacted in twenty seventeen. So now the rest of the country is doing pretty much what I was doing before with a couple of changes and improvements. What does it take to be deigned an unsafe building? The first thing that we do is do an initial assessment where we see in the as an engineer to do like a screening test. To determine whether or not a building might be quite prime. Screening taste is typically looking at the age of the building What is made off? And whether or not, it might be quake-prone. If a building is a luckily, if quake-prone, we advise the owner of the building, and in the onus is on the building owner to prove that not. Typically the way they have has done. Is By a more detailed sexual assessment? To determine what the actual state of the building is in there or not a work can be done to mitigate. The risk around the building. Well another major building in Wellington that was damaged by last year. Seven point eight magnitude is quite his to be Wellington's. Go to problem with quite prone buildings. Is this apartment owner? Carol Brown Port Company in the buildings into port. Say it'll cost too much to repair statistics house after almost a year of negotiations between the poor news may have to be brought in from outside Wellington to. To complete, government ordered strengthening work on building sites in the in the supreme. Globe that hangs above the capital's civic square has been pulled down again for remedial civil buildings in Wellington have already been demolished in new still a long list waiting for assessments and Insurance Library was closed suddenly in March due to worries about its safety in large earthquake with five thousand buildings in as I mentioned. There are one thousand where we have found him to be quite front, and the anymore you doing more screening, or is that from time to time we find the building. We haven't previously screen, but there's generally about it as time goes by, we learn more and more about a ground conditions in about What happens buildings quakes, you know. The, Caney, quite, tortoise. non Dr Collins. Buildings at don'ts sway with quake. So look bad across the country in after the code, if quite with the failure of Statistics House you might recall, we learned a lot about pre cast concrete floors in how they behave in the quake. So wasn't really more about buildings than had been hyping quakes against the charges to actually regulations. Keep up with with the knowledge that we are requiring all the time. Is there an average cost of fixing up? These buildings especially can't have an average costco zero so different we think about half a billion dollars with a work needs to. In weddings him, but of course there has just big of a cigarette pick calculation in. But isn hundreds of millions of dollars we've there needs to be done. And that's the problem. As an that for a lot of these owners as do they get the money from for this share of sexing them up yet. We definitely for apartment owners, particularly for people who are on fixed incomes, or who hips invested in the apartment is retirement fully retirement now for themselves in an invidious position. So what can can the council do anything about that? It's a nationwide issue so. The government has put in place. A suspensory loan scheme which I think is supposed to come on board. And the six to twelve months on this admitted to be discussed with with government rather council council does provide a little bit of assistance with a building resilience in a heritage fund that is specifically for quite Brian Buildings. But it's limited hymns of the difference that it makes but what what's going to happen. D Think Mike. Come Twenty twenty seven. If some of these owners don't have the money, or even you know a refusing to. Stump up with the money to fix up the buildings. We'll lay loose them. Does the council have any powers in this area? The council's pals around the building, and that is to enforce the regulations at the moment. This is complicated. The government is looking at this from alone perspective or don't want to speculate on what's going to happen, but we we are listening to apartment owners, and we hit the message gallantly from the as to what concerns are. Various assessments of the cost of straight coming out voting ranging from about a million dollars, and now we're up to about four million dollars, and it is just an ongoing nightmare. Ellington is the safety of the public. In and around these buildings, there are a couple at the moment. Who's notices have already explained. These are not apartment buildings. Commercial Buildings is one laid road in one in Ghazni street. For the first time. A council is going to court said that it can strengthen to heritage listed earthquake prone buildings because the owners refused to do say both of those building stuff at the moment can't say much will because is curry with the courts are K., but do you envisage that you're going to have more situations like this? It's definitely possibly that were the case. 'cause it's quite tricky as and especially if you if you take it building, that is an apartment block with multiple owners, and for these people that might be the life savings poured into it and they just. Even with government loan, they just might not be able to come up with the money to fix them. It is extremely tricky from a legal from a financial in from a regulatory point of view, and actually from an emotional perspective as well because over well to talk about a buildings and infrastructure as you pointed out. This is actually people's League. In lots of emotion tied up in it as well so it is an extremely unfortunate in difficult situation, the message loud and clear from apartment owners is that they don't like the government loins game enter Gina Campbell is that with the deadlines to fix the buildings? They want more support hundreds of people and the situation. Sorry that Select Committee that I mentioned before the city Wellington President Jiro. Dane Murphy was the speaking in support of a petition, and that's petition as asking for the House of Representatives to review the earthquake, prone building provision in the building act because they think you're on fear so basically they want to remove the requirement for a moment harm ernest to comply with these. Regulations to strengthen or demolish the buildings, they also are would like some compensation for this which is. Quite contentious. I think because. Some residents sort of draw parallels with the gun buybacks game for example now the government gun buyback scheme stuff today and runs for six months to December. The twentieth the government changed the roles taking away gun. Ernest property rights. The scheme has been boosted to two hundred million dollars, and we'll see Ghanaian compensation based on the type of gun and its condition, so those ernest were compensation in. They sort of one sign thing because the government's changed the rules in the Costas GonNa buy so much, they they say that the government should put in with the sheer of the cost of making the buildings. QUAKE RESILIENT! Yes, they want help from the government. Because the thing is, it's not just A fishing those. Arnott's because the buildings hip to be you know reasonably big buildings. And say at becomes a public safety thing, right and Sorr- think the ARNS argument is like well. If you want us to fund essentially as a public safety thing, then we want some and taxpayer help with that. If you like me and I, guess there are some parallels also to be drawn with the government's financial assistance package for with time, so this was the the leaky homes, tobacco and here the government. Offered a twenty five thousand financial contribution towards repair costs Bosch. The government has decided not to do something like that. In this case, they've gone with a Lawrence game and St. The government's announced to low interest loan scheme to help owners pie for their apartments to be quake strengthened, but some owners say the eligibility criteria is too strict. The lung cap is too low, and the government should be offering grants and compensation not loans, so it's only for owner occupiers, so you have to earn the apartment and live in the apartment and. I can say that. The Mirror Nash on the face of it, but you know some people found the situation so stressful that have sort of moved out of the apartments and look these people on. A lot of them. A lot of the ones that I've spoken to like Michael Cummins. Like? Let's be frank. It's not like they're. They're on the breed line, but the oeser not kind of hotshot visas her have. Are Lots of apartments. They you know they might have a bench. The KARSTON They have an apartment in Wellington. And it is the main financial needs. Stieg for retirement, and then what happens of say one owner in that apartment block just justice. I'm not coming up with the money I mean it's so complicated to all the owners within one building heff to. To stump up the money to have the Wu done yet. This is where it gets veering me. Say in the case of Michael Cummins Hey would rather just spend the money and get the building strengthened, but as you say, the problem is, it's not just up to heaven. The are dozens of other arenas, and the building and everything is done through the body corporate sorrow at sort of Voshan. He's told me that he's already head. Four Ernest come to him and say look. We just can't afford the strengthening cost. Some have tried to sell their apartments and. Sites told many people look darn. Even bother trying to do the. Songs are Michael's. Body corporate later this month is GonNa put to avert whether they should pursue sort of putting the whole building up for sale, saying what they can get for us in walking away, but say if Michael Commons and the other owners do agree to fix it up these no guarantee that has bill will stop at four hundred thousand dollars look at Wellington's townhall the Wellington, city. Council is being accused of spending a preposterous amount of money on its townhall. The cost of earthquake strengthening is now expected to be a hundred and twelve million dollars. It's nearly three times the initial. That's the other thing that aren't as have to prepare for that just because they've got A. A final costume their data design phase. Ah potentially could be even more than that once. Engineers, GITA and those during the work have heavy. Good luck got must put people off wanting to buy. Buildings? And while. I was talking to my friends about this over the WAKEEN's. We might story came out and. We just also. Art Garcia and apartment in Wellington, which is really sad, because we are also now light twin cheese, and that's being sort of pitched as is the new way inter homeownership riders starting off. With an apartment and Wellington's where a lot of the jobs are I certainly wouldn't be looking at an apartment. Campbell is planning more stories of trouble department earnest, but the response has not all been sympathetic somebody. Sit on on my twitter account and I'm quoting them. We wouldn't have much sympathy for anyone who gamble on Bitcoin is retirement plan. Why is investing in property different but? That as hot and I think that the difference between the Bitcoin for example. Is that. Somebody's harm and I thank you know. new-zealand society has traditionally placed a significant importance on harm ship and you know apartment aren't feel like I've hit the property. Rights taken away. Meanwhile Mike Men Dancer says Wellington will be a construction zone for years to come buddy a twenty-fifty. We expect the downtown Population Wellington to hear double. So, the big challenge we have is accommodating that growth while retaining here at age and building in resilience. All like to get, we're GONNA retain those, but to Wellington that we love the facades, certainly in the heritage components of. Newtown Courtney Place in Cuba. Street, you can already see in parts of the city. That we are starting to live and more high-rise, warranting a dwellings. Vet Is what often Wellington looks like in the future I can pick city that as easy to get around a dozen sprawl. We can't actually but what it means. If we're going to build up rather than bill yet as we need to build and resilient, so I anticipate we'll see a lot more things like base isolation. Of the cleaver ways of of mitigating with quite risk. Is More and more of coming war borders come to live in the city of of Willington. Ryan so does that mean you know does work to strengthen? These buildings is going to go on for decades a use for for at least at least fifteen years, possibly through years depending on the nature of the building, but what what the new legislation does is for high-risk buildings that are on roads have. Emergency services using them or where a lot of traffickers will or the Hickey Traffic Party routes. They have to be done within seven and a half years, so we a lot of wiggle knicks, half years on those buildings, and in slightly longer for the ones that ah hips off the beaten track. A little bit is really high public policy questions in here about public safety in in the question it. A lot of the pop apartment owners are asking is if if if it's a public sideine wasn't publicly funded. Was it privately funded? It's a really tough question. When it's being asked in indicated the moment as we go to a more resilient New Zealand Moore's in Wellington we need to resolve these sorts of things, not just with what with quakes, but other things as well like a changing climate and seat of Roy Moore flooding. We have to build all of us into a blueprint as we build any Wellington and it comes back to key questions like who decides in in who pays fascinating stuff. Thank you very much time Mike are probably simplified it too much, but trying to explain this in twenty minutes may have to emphasise or do it in twenty minutes or in. Twenty years, a good sized engineer will take twenty years to get to the point where his or her skills are really useful, so you probably looked two years from. Now. They'd set for today. Thanks also to Georgina Campbell. The detail is brought to you by newsroom dot co dot in and made possible by Ariz. and Insead on here. You can get US downloaded free mobile device every weekday from any podcast platform, and if you're using air leaders, rating, so other people can find us to. Today's episode was engineered by Rung, poet and produced by Alexia Russell, cocky on.
Friday 7 August
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the seventh of August two, thousand and twenty on monocle twenty four the briefing is brought to you in association with Liens. As part of the programs partnership with Allience we bring you stories that demonstrate his commitment to securing people's lives. After all, for hundred, thirty years all around the globe Alleanza has been working hard to do just that to give courage to its customers for what's ahead. Because allience knows how important it is to have a partner, your side who provides solid and sustainable solutions. Leon strives to do it right. We've passion. Every. Day. Stay tuned to the briefing. Dear, exactly. How alliens does it? An allowance for life. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio one here, the Dory House in London I'm Andrew Miller coming up are contributed in Beirut Layla. Milana Allen will have the latest from the site of Tuesday's colossal explosion in the Lebanese capital also ahead, of course, the conflict in Yemen his rage in large part because Islam Republic of Iran's illegal arms transfers to the WHO th-this. And so next week, the United States will put forward a resolution in the Security Council, to extend the arms embargo on Iran. Secretary of State Mike pompeo is talking tough on Iran and a bit later on Hello Finland was to buy share today will be joined by senior Elliott and who be talking about the latest in Latin America including the strong connections between Lebanon and Brazil, plus we'll have our weekly recap of what we have learned since about this time last Friday, all that coming up right here on the briefing on Monaco, two, thousand four. Welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me, Andrew. Miller some exercises in perspective the IRA bomb which severely damaged Canary Wharf in London in Nineteen ninety-six was estimated at just over one ton of ammonium nitrate Timothy McVeigh's bomb which demolished a federal government building in Oklahoma City in nineteen ninety-five was just over two tons of the same material. The boss which erupted in Beirut's port on Tuesday was estimated at two. Thousand seven hundred and fifty tons of ammonium nitrate. One of the biggest peacetime non nuclear explosions in history as Bhai. Route begins the barely imaginable task of cleaning up and is understandably enough growing tear gas was fired yesterday at protesters near the parliament building I'm joined. Now by Lila Milana, Allen France twenty four's correspondent in Beirut Leyla. First of all, you have been visiting the port which was the epicenter of the explosion. I can't begin to imagine where you would even describe such scene but I'm going to ask you to have a crack at doing that the scene is as you say, almost indescribable does smoke still rising from the charred MBA's off. Destroyed packing crates destroyed shelving and it says every kind of. Utility things you'd expect to see in shops. Twisted. Washing machines on the floor items from pharmacies because this of course port, this is the one thirty functional in Lebanon imposed everything and everything was stored than in the center. You have the remains of these enormous grain silos that carried the grain for the majority of the country completely destroyed and parts of them. Still collapsing there you have a aid workers desperately trying to dig people of rubble that's thirty meters deep, and the conditions are horrific temperatures of thirty degrees baking hot sun. The air is thick and brown the smell acrid burning metal and plastic. It really is post-apocalyptic and this goes on for over a mile. Entire poor is just smoking twisted metal and daybreak. Nash. have. You got a clear sense of how widespread the damage across Beirutis. How far can you go from the blast without seeing broken windows? So it. was about nine kilometers where we're still doing things like breaking windows the impact of it and having people. That's it really has spread incredibly far, and it's an uneven spread as well because. What's happened is that the grain ciders positioned in a certain way which meant that it protected half of the city of West Beirut, which historically has in many disasters. Conflicts actually born the brunt of of problems in Beirut and actually deflected the majority of the blast towards the East and the south, which is why a famous areas like Gymnasium Ohio Asha fear completely The buildings there obliterated and one of the concerns now is a lot of. Buildings the older buildings in Beirut the few buildings left in the east of in pre-civil war, which were much loved already, quite delicate on the point of collapse yesterday as people were trying to clear the streets constantly civil defense volunteers trying to pull people back away from these buildings with balconies hanging down stone starting to crumble because of course, that's a huge dangerous. People are still sifting through rubble trying to find loved ones that buildings could. New Buildings that had not yet collapsed could collapse on top of the other issue is that the new builds a lot of them are concrete and speaking to an engineer what can happen with concrete is that with a shockwave blast like this concrete cracks easily under pressure and so that can be in tunnel cracks there that you don't know about in can't be seen from the outside, but the make the building unstable and because there's really been. Very, little help from the government with people trying to go back into their homes, clear up and see what they can retrieve and whether their homes are still livable. Many people going back into very unstable buildings and some living there because they have no other former shelter. So a real risk of further injury as buildings might potentially collapse over the next few days very similar to the aftermath of an earthquake, which is what this is compared to. A among the people who was serving the damage in Beirut yesterday was of course, President Emmanuel Macron of France undertaking a extraordinary spontaneous visit. How is that being received? I mean, it's it's understandable enough that Lebanese politicians don't want to interact at a personal level with the public at the not only for their own safety but is it being regarded as strange that the first high profile politician to to take a walkabout should be the president of an entirely different country? Well, it is strange, but it's not being regarded as strange. I was down on the street yesterday when McCone was was walking through glad-handing the crowd I mean, he really was you know playing up to it and was supposed to be going to Baabda Palace, the Presidential Palace to meet with politicians and delayed that for an extra hour on the schedule to stay with Lebanese people in the streets of course, playing up very much. The fact that he was there to see them he'd said before the visit my main priorities to go and be with the people of Lebanon. And extend, solidarity's to them, and then after that I will be dealing with the political varieties speaking to them. So in the streets, he was absolutely mobbed by people he's hugging people shaking hands with them people coming up tim saying, please don't give those politicians any money that corrupt criminals we don't trust them and he responded to one woman I know you don't trust them graffiti everywhere saying don't give one. Euro. To those Michael help us. So he really did make himself as I say a man of the people yesterday I spoke to a couple of young women afterwards. WHO said to me? That man was more of a leader to us in fifteen minutes than any of our politicians have been where all day no one has come to see us where are they wears the help and later in the day after a lot of commentary that. The. Obviously. Lebanese politicians feeding quite shamefaced one. The justice minister did come down to the streets to try and speak to people clearing up and she had water thrown in her face and chanting protest. Immediately, they're not welcome and that people absolutely fading that the government has no interest in safety in their health in their wellbeing and their ability to rebuild hiding away from them as everybody marshals together to try and get things. Back to nothing like normal but something livable at least just to follow that up finally, regular listeners may recall that you and I were speaking on Monday talking about the resignation of Lebanon's foreign minister and that seemed like a pretty big story at the time He's probably ruin his timing at this point but have you seen or heard anything in terms of actual messaging attempts to help or anything from the alleged government of Lebanon or d you kind of assume that they've all got to the point where they just realized the games up nobody really wants to hear from them anymore. It's quite extraordinary. There is honesty nothing happening in terms of that what the government is doing a lot of finger pointing at each other and previous administrations about who's to blame for this they've put everybody associated with the report under house arrest and saying that they're going to find the perpetrators. But of course, everybody's saying somebody else's the perpetrator on what we know so far it seems that for six years has been ongoing negligence at the highest. Level where a several reports were were built up by the head of the port and have customs sent to the government center the Prime Minister's Office the judiciary about the fact that this was a ticking time bomb and something has to be done completely ignored. So the government is going on about this investigation saying they'll find responsible meanwhile three hundred, thousand people in Beirut homeless, five, thousand injured hundreds still missing, and honestly all you can see on the streets is volunteers. The. Lebanese. breath volunteers, obviously with their ambulances civil defence wanting tears, young people armed with spades and rooms marching down the street just going into people's homes into buildings and sweeping up what they can and moving onto the next one cleaning up themselves. They all said to me of course not here we wouldn't expect anything else from them with the only people who can help ourselves and today international aid. Groups coming in different countries, sending their own firefighters medical support in, and still a complete absence of the Lebanese government anywhere except the poor area learn Milana Allen in Beirut thank you very much for joining us. You're listening to the briefing. This is the briefing with me Andrew. Mullet now, listeners with memories stretching as far back as January can recall a period when it seemed like tensions between the United States and Iran going to be the big story of two thousand and twenty happy days those tensions overtaken though they may have been by events have not dissipated earlier this week America's lead diplomat where Iran is concerned Brian Hook resigned and will be replaced by Elliot Abrams who listeners with even longer memories will recall. Requiring a presidential pardon to escape more serious punishment for his role in the Iran Contra. Scandal of the early nineteen, ninety s a next week. The US plans to pitch the UN. Security Council on extending sanctions against Iran I'm joined now by Holly Digress at two of the Atlantic. Council's Iran source holy before we move onto next week's conclave with the Security Council a the insertion of Elliot Abrams into this discourse is this the present United States Administration just trying to be funny. I wish I could say that I mean it is quite humorous. Here they are trying to push the UN arms embargo on Iran to extend it, but they've hired a man's replaced Brian Hook with someone that has his hands dirty from a pass scandal related to Iran arms. So I mean I think the reality here is they're running out of people to fill in positions and it makes sense that. Elliot Abrams being the Venezuela on boy would could also be the Iran on boy as well since there may only be a few months left in the trump presidency for all we know so I think that's what's really happening here but we will come back to the dynamic of the clock ticking on Donald Trump. Well, one can only hope and and how that might be affecting the rest of the world's interactions with Iran but let's look ahead to the UN Security Council and what the United States wants to pitch to it the sanctions that the US wants to extend what are they and why does the US won't them extended Essentially, there is a UN Security Council resolution that was tied to the Iran nuclear agreement that was a multilateral agreement signed between Iran, and the five Security Council members including Germany, and so what it entails was that this arms embargo after a certain amount of years after the Iran deal would be signed That, it would actually be removed and that expiration date is October eighteenth. Now, the situation here is that as your listeners may well remember the United States withdrew from the Iran nuclear agreement in May two, thousand eighteen and decided to impose a maximum pressure policy on Iran in the hopes of essentially trump getting a better deal than his predecessor. Now, that hasn't happened There have been hard punitive. US. Sanctions imposed on the country in Tehran has yet to come to the table and so realizing that or suddenly remembering that there's this arms embargo that is expiring October. Suddenly the administration has remembered Oh. There's this arms embargo maybe we should stay we're back on the Iran deal so we can get this thing extended, and so that's kind of what's been happening the past few months since they've been talking about it and US has been having trouble getting people on its side to extend the embargo. Now, the problem is that next week secretary of State Mike Pompeo is going to go to the UN Security Council to bring forth. A resolution to vote on the arms embargo and it is assumed that China Russia allies Baronne would veto and with this veto, this would bring back snap back sanctions mechanism and not to give a headaches everybody in explaining the details on that long story short, it's a special mechanism. The denied states has that will invoke evoke or invoke Multilateral UN sanctions on Iran, and that's going to be where the problem is. In, terms of what we're witnessing here from the European parties to this especially, and Russia and China who as you suggest, might veto this anyway. Are we watching the world basically trying to just keep some semblance of the Iran deal alive until November, on the assumption that president-elect Biden would single what would signal the United States willingness to reenter it. I think that's exactly the point I think that there is a sense of patience let like let's keep being patient. There's a chance that trump my low longer being up office, and that's essentially how Iran's been reacting to the trump administration. During this past year, they call it strategic patience. Now, the trump administration actually recognizes this and is also possibly hoping to reimpose stop back sanctions in the event that there is a Joe Biden presidency come January so they're thinking to themselves. Well, we're GONNA, make sure that it's almost impossible to go back to. The current Iran deal as is because they they assume or calculate that will wrongly react to this veto or snack back. razzle excuse me snap back resolution because Iran has threatened repeatedly that it could do a number of things that could continue escalating its nuclear program. It could with draw from the Iran deal or even withdraw from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty that it is a signatory to or do a mix of all of those. So I. think that they definitely have that in mind and that's in part their them trying to put deb. Essentially, killed the Iran deal before Abidin presidency established the case come January holy digress. Thank you as always for joining us. You're listening to the briefing. Here is Monaco's ailing Goffin with the day's headlines Thanks Andrew Sri Lanka's president gotten buying Russia Pakistan has declared victory in the country's parliamentary election. It means that he can elevate his brother Mahinda to the role of prime minister. Spain's ABC newspaper has an intriguing scoop on the whereabouts of Juan Carlos. The paper reports that the former king flew to Abu Dhabi on a private jet at the beginning of the week. The New Zealand. Herald explores a tense standoff between a Kiwi ought and the Tongan Navy the incident occurred near Minerva Reef which has been claimed by Tonga, since the nineteen seventy s and monocle minutes looks at Canada's annual defense exercises in the Arctic. The drills are being conducted in collaboration with France, Denmark and US FOR MORE HEADS TO MONACO COM slash minutes. Those are some of the headlines we are keeping an eye on today back to you entry. Thank you your lean. It's time now for around up late EST news from Latin America and to do exactly that joined in the studio here in London, by our resident Brazilian Fernando, Augusta Pacheco and on the line from Rio de Janeiro by an American affairs correspondent Lucinda Elliott. Fernando. Obviously we were talking at the top of the show about Beirut and about Lebanon as we were discussing he in the building earlier, this story does have. Unusually. Large residents I guess in Brazil where there is a vast Lebanese community well, very fast. Tendering fact, we have the biggest Lebanese community outside Lebanon It's even said that you know the Lebanese descendants in Brazil. The number's higher than the population of Lebanon itself. So of course, the reaction. was quite a moving in the country I mean even in the political sphere our former president Michel Timid he's the son of off kind of Lebanese parents and he posted on social media not only Michelle them at all the important political figures like dodged is the former mayor of some Paulo in his interesting. Andrew. I grew up in some Paul for me to go to Lebanese restaurant Lebanese coaches. So present in the even have members of my extended family who do who do indeed come. So Fr from. Lebanese ancestry. So there is a strong connection and you can save imprisonable out i. mean he's not really the most internationalist of our president, but he said, you know he will do whatever he can and he offered help to the country as well. It's an interesting local illustration of what's going to be a global phenomenon in Lebanon's year huge sprawling the asper. There are many Lebanese people in destroyer I'm from his well has been the will the salvation of Lebanon on many previous occasions and I guess it's going to be called upon again. Listened with apologies for the grinding of the gears, here is a traverse from one story to the next. Another thing which Brazil kind of leads the world in is the ongoing coronavirus pandemic where you are in Rio. Is Anybody still attempting to actually do anything about mitigating the spread of the disease. I mean here in Rio and Brazil rolled Andrea itchy completely lockdown free zone. Actually Baas were the opening hours footballs in Rio. Some Paulo were extended to ten pm last night cinemas rules reopening, and we have a thousand people dying every day across across the country in Latin. America actually surpassed Europe on Tuesday to become the region with the highest corona virus death toll worldwide according to avoid tally, and the two worst places in terms of infection rates still remains Brazil followed by Mexico. Fernando is it your sense communicating with members of your family in Brazil? This is damaging Bolsonaro at all. I mean he despite the fact that he has contracted the illness himself, he has taken remarkably unserious Lee from the very beginning Andrew I have to be very honest here it did damage but very little much less than expected and I think I've mentioned here before there is a kind of the government is offering some sort of help for people that have been affected by. Cove nineteen like government, Gouvernementaux money and data even though it's a very, very small amount, it's improving both sonars popularity among the poorest in Brazil, which fund enough were the ones that didn't vote for both audibles. Auto had the support of the middle classes when he won the presidency. But if he now it's changing the type of people that voted for him. So in a way, it's a very weird situation. Clearly, he's not handling the spend very well, but we also have in Brazil. Very. In certain regions of Brazil's some people are very poor. The unemployment is increasing at an alarming rate. So even the smaller amount will make people satisfied. Again as we've seen the sad, you know the country's opening again but the number of deaths remain high fact it is accelerating most Brazilian states still I mean didn't nothing decreased yet and that's quite worrying as well. Listen to come back to you finally on a well a big story coming out of Columbia Warrant for the arrest of one of the country's former presidents. Yeah. So former president you rebate. Hugh was in power from two thousand and two thousand and ten and took a particularly hotlines. Don's. Left wing rebel group. The faulk has been issued in arrest warrant earlier. This we I mean what's important about this is that rebate he was a mental full current present duquet in his considered actually one of the most powerful men in Colombian politics. and. He was He's a he's warrant comes off accusations of witness tampering, and in some ways not former Brazilian president new to Silva. He was on the other end of the political spectrum in Latin America and was charged imprisoned for corruption rebates case and him being arrested is a monumental move in the country showing that leaders a no longer on touch not untouchable and he's arrested actually spot protetst bikes full and against the decision like we saw with Nuder. I should reiterate that what Lula and what rebate charged with a very different source of crime new to metal in the siphoning off of state funds including the renovation of a pretty modest beachside flat. An rebate is accused of being responsible for thousands of deaths during the civil wool. In Columbia, but just for background, the case stems from a feud with the sort of left is senator who the former president accused of plotting to closely linked him to parliamentary groups and the quote is actually found that the investigation was redesign allies had attempted to tamper with witnesses, but it's quite relieved to have some news that's not related to the current virus to make change. The sender Elliott and under Augusta Shaker. Thank you both for joining us. You're listening to the briefing which is brought to you in association with. As part of the programs partnership with Aliens we're bringing you stories that demonstrate alliances commitment to securing people's lives. Often. Pylons has been working hard to do just that. To, give courage to its customers for what's ahead. Because alliens knows how important it is to have a fair. Palma at your side. Stay tuned to the briefing here. Exactly. How allience does it? An allowance for life. You're listening to the briefing finally on Today's program. It's time to assess what we know now that we didn't seven days ago we learned this week that the Great Pyramids of Egypt will, not repeat not built by aliens. In a very two thousand and twenty development. Egypt's Minister for International Cooperation that's international. Not intergalactic was forced with an almost audible rubbing her temples to clarify as much following a tweet by annoying billionaire Elon Musk appearing to propound the popular foil hat theory Johnny Marshon had some handle whatever Martians have instead of hands in the erection of these triangular monuments. Again that I lack of knowledge of which one is speaking remains no obstacle to prominence in twenty first century public life. Well. Right here in the United States is lowest in numerous categories. will lower than the world load Than in Europe US President Benito Cartman gave an interview to Jonathan Swan of axios which can only have been allowed to happen because some devious patriots in the president's inner circle is attempting to sabotage his reelection much worse than South Korea Germany. You can't do that you. have to go by. Go by where look here is the United States. So we also learned and not before time how to interview Donald Trump properly or years if he was your mad ignorant father in law and you are past caring whether or not his child divorces you when you have somebody that has where there's a case, all the people that little. Cases we learned to however the Donald Trump. Remains a man capable of grasping the wrong end of several sticks at once as he reflected on Tuesdays calamity in Beirut and I've met with some of our great generals and they just seem to feel that it was this was not a some kind of a a manufacturing. explosion type of event. This was a seems to be according to them. They would know better than I would, but they seem to think it was a attack. It was a bomb of some kind of confident burt not one single general. told him that. Moving along. We learned that Donald Trump is scarcely alone in failing to quit the role of head of state with the dignity and probity, which might be preferred. One calls the first former king of Spain skip the country visas clinking with palace cutlery apparently to escape the inquiry's of Spanish Plod who want a word with majesty about a dodgy rail contract in Saudi Arabia. The reason we are playing boney M's one way ticket beneath. This is that one sounds a bit like so far away ticket is the gangway swinging at here. This is a very good joke and not as might be eroneous concluded by the untrained abs of a bad one. The, lyric contains reference to trains which makes it even clever era. You probably just need to discuss it among yourselves a bit more. You'll appreciate it eventually. Whatever. We also learned that we may as a species have to find some way to leave without jazz such as what you can hear in the background a struggle, but we'll manage the New South Wales Department of Health issued a warning that covid nineteen can be spread by wind instruments specifically citing saxophone clarinets, flutes, and recorders. The last of the specifications suggesting that someone at the new, South Wales Department of Health has spent lockdown living next door to primary school age children who can't quite get three blind mice right? We learned that the new rule is that wind instruments should not be played near other people although jazz musicians from the more avant garde fringes of the genre might well wonder when that's ever happened anyway other. Should stay at least one point, five meters away from other people other than accordionist who should stay one hundred meters away from other people though this is nothing do with covid nineteen but just common decency. And we learned of an exciting new edition two, the lexicon of empty celebic German words for Ricco and or indeed recherche situations and emotions even if we had to invent this one ourselves. Attentive listeners will recall that on Mondays roundup of good news. We considered the apprehension of the forks which had for some wild bean stealing shoes from the bewildered citizens of the Berlin suburb of Zehlendorf and we declared at high time that the German language coughed up one of its signature stickle brick portman toes defining feeling of disorientation engendered by discovering that one is the victim of an irritating yet, strangely adorable crime like having one sandals stolen by a Fox here to help me not for the first time is Mongols German neologisms. Desk chief has to underhill agony. Open doors for Ascalon orienteering music kite. You're welcome Germany and that's quite enough of those virus spreading Cuba's. And, that's all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced by Reese James and yelling as studio manage it was nor he'll the briefing returns on Monday at the same time midday London Obvio- your host for that as well a manager Mullah vice listing have a great weekend.
CIPYD 32: Julie Falatko and Chihuahua Air Lift
"Is there a dog Anna car out of bar on the street? That's a dog that we really want to me. Hey, can I pet your? You're you're patch doll with Rene and Allegra. Look to can I pet your dog. I'm Allegra Ringo. A dog owner. I'm Renee Kover a Doug water. And this is our producer Travis McElroy guys. Now, listen, I don't think we've done a weather report recently have we is it time for another one. There's a lot of poise at gorgeous out today. I was gonna say it's way too high. Okay. Is known for having bad weather. We're not looking good know, here's what I think. Guys. Maybe maybe a big long hiatus for many type of working out. I replaced it with donuts. I got out there. Few times this week. I'm writing riding on a nice little nuts. Beautiful day. The park is gorgeous. I say I started working out started eating donuts, and it's really improved my life. Did it sure did for about two or three months? It was great. I don't have to get up early anymore. But then eventually that takes toll swings ever to the other side. So now, I'm that inseparable person who's on a little bit of a runner's high and like life as one. Fair is very stupid of me to complain. It's like eighty outside. It's beautiful. It's February like a lot of the country is would blanketed in snow, and it's we're in like sundresses and shorts here, and it's really wonderful. So that's why I constantly wear sweaters, and jeans. No matter what I can relate to everyone else rather stay in touch with the real America. One of the people. I'm a podcast. You could have a beer with. Podcasts inside, exactly. All right. That's that's I think that's fair. I think we've all handled this beautiful day appropriately. Good job. Does it for the weather segment rate? Our weekly second. All right. So now, you listeners should we talk about what you guys have gotten ourselves into. Let's do it. All right. Pull back the curtain a little bit poor legs every time. I'm like, hey, let's into and then I just sit back put my hands. I love the rest. Well, I know that we have many dogs. We met this week. I have one Travis has to who radio. Of course. We'll see. Let's see four four dollars record. We at four we at three. He's probably three. What's that called a pet? Ooh. Peta Claude that's called. Yeah. Exactly. That's called dog. We Mathis week. It's every single dog a forty five minute segment strap in. I also have some dog news. It's about the great Shwe airlift. And that's all I'm going to say now, listen, I think it might be a little bit of a small dog show because guess what? I'm talking about minute. Is it it is interesting. That's weird. It's not even my birthday. And we have guests. Julie flat co who's gonna talk to us about her gorgeous dog Cosmo love it. I'm excited. And should we do it? Let's do it right here. We come. All right. You guys. We teased it we talked about it. You've waited. Are you ready subtle in quadrupeds dogs? We met this week who came first, paper scissors. Are we doing okay mind? I had great. You went away. And I and Taibbi Teresita bunch of friends went and saw the worst idea of all time cast, which is amazing. They watch the same movie every week and then review it every week for fifty two weeks. Love it on the first season was grownups to the second season has been sex in the city to and they're just now wrapping up. But so they did a reading of a version of a script. So they wrote their version of grownups two from memory, and then had a reading of it. It was incredible. But while I was waiting outside for the doors to open. This woman came to get tickets, and apparently had just stopped and gotten her dog on the way home thought, she'd grab tickets and then go home. But then there was this guy in front of her who was buying like six different sets of tickets for like six different. Any like, you know silent movie house that's not like they had eight cashiers. So she's like standing there with this dog like waiting and looking where she's legally parked with our cars. And so she's like super nervous and this dog was adorable him out. Doc was blonde. Strawberry blonde. Look like a mix between a core. Geena pomeranian. And it was so fluffy and sleep looking around. Not you would think like dogs being held standing on for a long time outside is gonna get squirmy. There's dog just seemed Pleasants could be. But then it came her time to get tickets and she had a handful of dog. Sure everybody walking by wanted to talk to her about the stock. So like she's been very open about it. She was very friendly. And so she sat the dog on the ground, no collar, no lease nothing to like pay the dude. And I was like I'll I'll keep occupant. I on our like just pick the dog up. It's like I'm not just gonna let these dog in the middle of super-busy. Los Angeles street is like wonder around. So I picked the dog up. I was holding which then proceeded to like at least five different people like all your dog's mind like, well, what's her name? I have. No, I know nothing about this dog except that I need to protect it dog's name. This is my favorite thing. The dog's name was Hodge key. Okay. People kept going Haji, and the owner would go no ki- like hundred and it's like what I think Russian word probably. But it's like that's another word that easier. The obvious choice would be like hachi hachi Monchy. Right. But not hutch -i like hot Chinga. That's not a more common. That's not a thing that everybody always the dog was adorable. The name was hard to pronounce I love. I was I felt the fight or flight happening right now of if the story ended in you just let that dog stay on the sidewalk. What was your favorite thing about hockey is when I picked her up. She like, you would think she doesn't know me. We haven't even done like the proper like Houston, if my hand introduction picked her up, and she did that that kind of hold where it's like I'm holding entries like sitting in my arms like legs up in the air. And could not have been more relaxed. Like I'd known this dog for years. Were you there for this? No, I got there. I got there little late. I was running immediately. Totally thing. I was like this dog eared had you been there would have been a photo shoot. Oh, yeah. Don't right. I don't right now. It was it was a great story. I was not there. I was like maybe ten minutes too late. I did hear it right after I think this lady has some really confusing ideas about how to have a dog. She's taking it out without a leash. He's naming it this crazy thing. We'll. Kept saying like, I just I just picked her up from the thing that you don't have a leash and collar anyways, the dog was little. Yeah. Okay. It's a little confusing ultimately happy ending. It is my dream to be like oh God. I guess I could hold your dog. That's pretty perfectly or maybe she'd just like adopted her just just got her. She's learning the ropes. She's go. Visit. Yeah. Done doubt. She'll learn okay, we have three more stories. Okay. Guys. This is story. Happy ending. Yeah. Who I was walking also. Or show about now. Buckle. About to get. A story that ends in tears. So I was out walking special the other day and this guy drove by and yelled on his window. Hey, have you seen the little Shitzu around here? And I was like, oh, no. I haven't I'm sorry. And he was like if you see him his name is Archie like, you know, the call me look at. Yeah. I guess the implication was like call the number on the tag. Okay. Got it. And he obviously lives like right nearby, and I walked possess show for a little while longer. Did not see Archie. I saw guy walking toward me a different guy carrying a little fluffy dog in his arms with like all of its leg like an acute way where like kind of his arms around all of its legs or kind of flopping about adorable, and I went like, wait a minute looks like a little curly Shitzu. And then I pointed at him and went is that and just then the owner drove by his window down and like slowdown for the guy. And I said is that he went. Yeah. Archie. And I got to see them reunited, it was a little happy ending that happened like ten minutes after the beginning. Great this magical. Cool amazing. I know I was a little it's a bummer win. So you hear someone say like, hey, do you see my dog? Did you ever has possession over gotten away for like an extended amount of time? And I would knock on wood. If it wouldn't sound so bad on the microphones. No. But it is my greatest fear has not buttercup, but nasty like we have these neighborhood. Kids we had a basketball court in our backyard, and we have these neighborhood kids that would just come back and use it without asking, and they would like leave our gate open and the gate was around the side of the house. So like a for a couple of times like I'm like twelve I'd let the dog out to go use the bathroom, and they left the gate open. And I go and like come back him and later to let her back in and the Doug on now. Luckily, she had stubby legs and never went for so it, but there were a couple of times where like she'll get out. And then it was I I was we found her every time sometimes longer than others. But it was always like the scariest thing I'd find her like three blocks away, and she was not well trained only like, you know, come command. So like we'd finally three blocks away and the night Jason for three blocks because it was super fun for her. And but like it was scary. Every time I don't think buttercup got out. She would go anywhere. She's so like stone to my leg that I think that if I like if I open the door she'd probably stick your head out and then come running back in. This is a conversation not redux met this week. But I'm curious because we also had dogs that would run away when we were kids we had a beagle. And a lab and they run away for six days, then and then somebody cross town would call the number on their caller and be like they're both here. So they'd stick together into their own little homeward bound thing wondering if the rate of dogs running away for that long, his decreased substantially because of chips and colors. Well, short. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder I wonder the same. But I do think at least Molly in Barney. We're names, and they vented really well for themselves. It seems like that's crazy digger. So he would dig underneath offense back. Yeah. Yeah. He created an underground. Way back home. Into like dog breakout stories, but my dad's dog Homer, no sorry, homers a little in. His dog Harpo great, and it's beautiful like Chow mix. Looks like a little black bear he jumps like six foot fences. He's a biggest bag. He's a bigger dog. He's probably a child next. But gigantic he could knock me over. And so they just had to keep putting up higher and higher offensive. He'll just like jump events Maher. That's. Are you ready? We're winning. Okay. So you guys have been very gracious and kind of out how there's a ton of dogs in my neighborhood. I got to the bottom of why would you like to hear? But I also to liked out the vents such a weird thing to be your someone who's gracious about that their neighborhood. Well over would be mad about it. I would say I would like that's a that's a nice. That's the first thing. I want people to mention about my home doctor out here. Okay. Properly Carden you'd plans. Complimented all the take it as a compliment. I'm chosen a part of town that has a lot of this show. But I got to the bottom of what you're saying. In the water. A lot of development. A lot of new buildings. The owner has changed the guard. We have a new owner who initially had a twenty pound restriction on pets lifted. It completely all all. This is your no this, isn't Belgium. Boy that would you would hear Trump fares there'd be a full parade. That's true. So she's like I was talking so meta mastiff named moose. That's cute real cute. So just the best measuring everything I was like which apartment you live in that lets us, and he's like funny story owner just said, no, more restrictions can have whatever you want. You have to pay a British substantial like security deposit. But after that there. That's awesome. Very interesting. I wonder what happened in this owners life. If he was like, you know, what I've had a change of heart or she would. 'cause I think I probably did changing the guard a new owner has all right? Never mind. You're right. You're right that yeah. We'll changing the guard change heart. The same thing aren't right. Awesome on. So this new person came in. There was like all right. You guys things are going to change her great now mastiff named moose. Drool all over me shirt after. Oh, wow. Totally worth. Oh, that's so cute. This is our final dog of the day. I guess it or it should be coming out soon on a podcast called we have concerns. And I went over dude. South over to Anthony towns and met his dog whose first name is dagger. And his full name is something like dagger agent. Lightning thunder. It's an awesome. Awesome me. But it's tiny. It's okay. Another tiny little dog slightly smaller than buttercup pomeranian. And he had like a lion cut big fluffy. Had you know what I mean? And then like the clean not clean shaven. But like close shave embody and this dog eight look like you would film the dog and then removed every other frame to make him seem like more like dynamic every time this dog moved. He would just like run on time. I'll turn everything he was so sharp and precise that it looked like an animated. It looked like a Pixar version. And the best thing the dog was very well trained, but he was trained to clap. Yeah. So he would like raise up on his hind legs. And basically clap his paws together gosh. And yeah. Oh my God. Uh-huh. And apparently during Anthony's wedding was wearing little like a tuxedo class. I was that not the Keyter saying you've ever heard. All right. Pay me. Did he utilize that during the podcast when you made a good joke? He made the dog San up, it'd be like pretty good. Like when afterwards like he would say something like don't you think so clap and the dog, and I was like I want to. It's also important to know that it seemed like a dagger. Like naturally was it like he when he got excited like raise up and just kind of do that. So it was like, okay. When a dog naturally does something it's easy to train them on command still super impressive trick. So obviously, it was a sort of natural tendency. Did you talk to him about how he developed it to do it on commando? I didn't want to spoil the moment. I do appreciate. Beautiful clapping dog. And that's all I need to know. That is so cute harvest. That was a perfect big finish. I'm glad I'm glad you ended with that one. He's gonna amazing and I look forward to hang out with him again clap out today. Can I pet? Your dog is supported in part by Luke pets, a monthly subscription mystery, great for pets, and the people that love them they deliver fun and hard to find a peril Sary's toys, treats and more. It's very cute. Very fun. It's under twenty dollars each month. You get six to eight items include licensed gear, apparel, collectibles, and more. We're big fans. We really fun. Potassium. Got one last month. Very cute was invasion theme. Boy, very cute. She loves us. We traits and guys this month theme is versus to celebrate the release of Batman versus superman on of Justice. Trust me, if you're on the fence, go check it out because it's not the movie, of course. Luke pet box. Go to loot crates. I got their stuff. It's awesome. I'm a huge fan. Versus team includes some of the greatest rivalries and pop culture with explosives you can wear display and use in addition to our spiffing monthly in Luke pin who I love it. I hope it's big versus small dogs. Gotta helps out. Gotta help out. That's the whole thing. That's definitely top culture's. Greatest rivalries. Let's see. So you can head to create dot com slash your dog and enter code your dog to save three dollars on any new subscription. We also know into the twenty sixteen max drive is just around the corner. You've heard is talked about it a couple times. But it's for me. And for many of the shows the most magical time of the year, first and foremost is your chance to listen to amazing leaks of podcast. It's going to be like the most impressive shows of the entire year. We're pulling out all the stops. We've got special guests. Do we say do we want to say who's going to be our special guest? We've already reported. Right. Well, okay. Say okay. We've we've we're going to have to very impressive guests one that we know very well. And to that when we tell you who it is you guys are going to lose your mind, you're going to scream about it. It's great. But so tune in for that it's going to be to really great weeks of shows, and it's your chance to show support for can. I bet your I'm axiom fun. So maximum funding case, you didn't know is a donor supported network, which means that we exist because of listeners like you. And this is your chance to not only show your vision of our show, but also get some rewards in exchange. You're going to get amazing exclusive gifts for new and upgrading donors, and you'll get to hear a bunch of bonus content. We're recording abundance episode in which you can hear our family members talk about kind of our history with dogs, and that's only going to be available. If you donate it starts March fourteenth and it runs for two weeks. So don't miss your chance to be a part of the excitement. Mark your calendars and just keep checking maximum fund dot org. All right guys this time for minute. And it's small dog week. I just decided shrews pomeranian week if nothing else. Yeah. I think small dogs, right? Because you guys all met smallpox. Thank you. All right and pomeranian specifically's where we're gonna talk about how marines very small Rene has a minute. I'm pomeranians for us. Yeah. I'm ready. I'm begins now. All right, pomeranians or poems. According to me, look like a big fluff ball, they are descendant of the Siberian husky and used to be sled dogs that weighed thirty pounds. The breed has been made popular by a number of Royal owners since the eighteenth century Queen Victoria, created her own kennel and brought in the smallest palms. So that they could breed. She did this for years during Queen Victoria's lifetime. The size of the breed decreased by fifty percent today. Poems gin Lee way between four and six pounds. And they stand about ten inches tall. Factually, anecdotally, these dogs bark a lot. They have a double coat at his short. On the inner later and long and fluffy on the outer layer, they are heavy shedders. And it's recommended that they are groomed. Daily poems are friendly and funny with a lot of energy, but they demand a lot of attention. Some fun facts include they do not think about this too much or one of three dogs to survive the sinking of the Titanic and Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel with pomeranian by his side. One. Oh, two. Okay. Perfect. Not that. Okay. All right. Oh my God. I can't believe this Senate from seventy. He's out of Detroit. Yeah. How many dogs survive? Two. How about that? I find interesting one cleavage aurea. She had a huge amount of influence over like society. Pop culture. She really to end like it's thanks to her that like most of what we recognize like Christmas traditions exist. They do and a lot of fashion change, wedding cakes and all this stuff. But it's interesting me that she seems basically single handedly responsible for making pomeranian small small and popular. Yeah. She's just like this is kind of dog. I like, I'm gonna make them smaller. Well, should get one. And that's why we yeah. Yeah. I will also say in my dog training training. What what I was told? So don't hold his against me. But is basically pomeranians are very smart. And so there for very trainable, but also get bored very easily. So they will learn trick do it for a while. And then seemingly overnights seem to refuse to do it. And so they they were used a lot. And I imagined still are as like circus dogs because they're very trained. So they're like, smart and can figure out a lot of complicated tricks. But if they're not like constantly getting like stimulated rewards for doing the trick del like just stop doing it. And be like, okay. What else that's very interested in it almost like when you hear about like, really smart kids. Any simulation? Interesting fascinating pomeranians. There's a new one on my one street over for me who super cute. My favorite thing is they always look engaged. Like when you look at their faces their present there in the Mohan like, yeah. What are you doing? Okay. How's everybody? Everybody you anything. Okay. Bye. I also like that circus dogs is the theme of this podcast. He is. I mean circus tongs. All right with Simon in honor of moose and the new lift on big dogs in my neighborhood. Can we do mastiffs? I would like the bull mastiff great zone acidly specifically, great Wednesday, moose. Okay. I'll look I'll look up most of the Volna small parts in great. Great. Okay. This is a great good little. Hello. Oh, yes. It was. Planet earth ohi planet earth. I was thinking about going to the church of the seven sisters across the cut. A Kook you're gonna go. Nervous. I thought maybe UP to call. I can do that your show. I might even bring a friend you hang on planet earth. We'll get back to you bring bring. Hello. Hey, kerry. It's Ross how's it going? I just got a call from the planet earth, and they really want someone to look into the church of the seven sisters. They seem kooky do it. Yeah. You will. I think we should do it on our podcast Ono Rawson and carry on the maximum fun. Now, it's grey on cast. No, the one where we look into different sorts of fringe science or spirituality. Paranormal that one Ross and we show up. So you don't have to you can find us on itunes or at maximum fund dot org. Let's help planet earth. Guys. We are here with our good pal author. Julie flat co she's the author of the brand new children's book snaps. The alligator did not act to be in this book. It's very cute. She's very wonderful here. She is. I only do how often do you get told that you have the best title to children's book ever? It's sort of was just that. I couldn't come up with a title the title of the book is almost longer than the actual books. Then I don't have to pitch it or anything like I say, the whole title people like doc. I like that. Now, we wanna talk to you obviously about this book for quite a while because it's got the title. But you know, how goes probably wanna talk to you more about that dog. What I'd rather talk about the dog. Really? We have a this is a this is I think unprecedented. So this is a dog. We've talked about before with a different guest. What? Okay, our guest, Margaret Willison, which you McCall from a few months back. This is Cosmo which is like her surrogate, son. That's Julie's dog. And every news episode about Cosmo like, you could be it could be we met this week dog tack what's happening with Cosmo. Twenty sixty. Time. What was the cutest his ears are gigantic? And he's nice here. Four kids like my qualifications for a great dog the best as a review, can you? Tell us what kind of dog Cozma wiz Cosmo is. He's definitely got to wanna wa and dachshund or you know, I should like how to say dachshund before I got one. But anyway. Got it. Right. He's got those. And then something else. Probably he's probably got other things. I don't know terrier corgi German shepherd. I don't know. Perfect. Where has big ears from what about you? Well, I think they're docked shins that are that are too. I would. Here's and you fold them down. He looks exactly. Like, adoption and then but then blink back. So cute cute. And how old is Cosmo. At this point. I five issue. You know, he's very secretive. Hollywood exactly he likes to keep it mysterious like that. He is. He is such a man of mystery. So dog of history. He was he was found on the side of the road in Missouri. And who knows from that point? How old they guess, you know, I don't know can do it like the rings on a tree near how they God. I hope. On what that would entail cutting him in half. Don't listen. I don't know if you've ever owned a dog before before Cozma, Julie don't cut your docking. That's just that's a top tip from us to you used to be a trainer. So you can I know a lot about this don't cut your dog. But it isn't just a short. Sure. Well, okay. So okay. So Cozma was found by the side of the road in Missouri. Can you give us the full story on how you came to adopt him. Okay. 'cause I did not find him on the side of the road in Missouri. The adoption rescue people dead, and we we have four kids. And at a certain point. They all were like we wanna dog we need a dog like kids. Do we have Ramona, and she is five now she was like well from the time she was born. She's been completely obsessed with dogs. It's word was done on. Yeah. Like, she's putting a mini Rene. Right. Every dog like be a dog. I don't know a good half mile away. And she's like hold on. I love her. This is a feature host. Exactly. He started to seem kind of cruel that we didn't have a dog. So we expected it to take a long time because I really didn't want to spend a lot of time rehabbing dog like I knew realistically for our first dog that I was not gonna be able to get a dog with lots of special needs lots of neuroses just needed kind of good starter dog, and we were looking around. And there was this. Here's a controversial thing. I'm kind of team big dog. I know. She doesn't mean it shouldn't mean it Julie. Do you have a best friend or are you looking for new one? We wanted a dog that could like go hiking and running and camping. And I just never thought small dog. You know, so we're looking at all these big dogs, and we met this big dog who was super-duper sweet. But then we all went to meet her like Ramon on. I went to meet her first. And then we brought everybody and sell completely wiped out like tried to jump over a wall. Speaking was so saying like, what did you say? Can you jump over that wall? Hey, no, don't you. Gotta get out of here. You and I brought. That'll do it. Julie that was really funny with depreciate have money that was. Do you care about do you? Are you really wanna dog the size? And I said, but not before I don't like can't personality and other like hold on. And then they brought in Cosmo. And he was wagging and jumping in and kissing all of us. And it was a pretty easy decision. We thought about it a bit. But he does he do outdoorsy stuff with you. Yeah. Yeah. Let's really little. He's like twenty pound. But he'll we take him running all the time. We take them hiking hike way more than any of the rest of us. He could like twelve mountains and. The thing that I want to be which is completely sack out on the couch from watching movies and just relax and be all cuddly, okay, now with his name when you met him or did you guys change the name? No his name was gain. I e. I do not like that neighbor dogs. I know that we normally talk about liking people named for dogs. I don't like that. But then after like, they were fostering him at this doggy daycare, and they decided that that wasn't a good name for him. Then it changed it to Dexter. I know a dachshund named Dexter. I just wanna go back. If your dog's name is Dane, I think the problem is that I think great Dane, it's confusing. Okay. I wanna make it clear that that's why not because I hate the name day. And so we just we thought a we went through the whole process of thinking about names, and Cosmo was the one that stuck although I would stipend with a class of kids the other day I held him up. And this kid said, hey that don't mean sparking. It is it is now. Cosmo. But sparky classic American name hit. Now is like this is little rascals times. Is that kid is up dog named sparky? It's interesting. I don't think. So I don't think it was spot spot. I'm sorry, isn't it? Yeah. It's not actually little rascals, but don't have spanky. Maybe that that that I believe Charles. Details. Kids name Butch and dog's name sparky. And that was the fifties. The who appreciate this is the most or on the call right now. The other day. I record an episode of new podcast and Tara bang, and I was talking about this thing have on the dog park frustrated me and without thinking or being corrected into skating over referred to child's owners the dog instead of parents. I was like and then the owner. And I didn't I didn't realize until somebody pointed out on Twitter. Cavs this kind of shaded pass. Published the whole I didn't realize I it was talking about the little dogs owners and the child so. That whole Larry is what's okay? On the subject of kids on their owners, so often Julie's Skype with classes full of children or is this recent development since you your dawn. This is the dog. Kidding me? Oh my God. Yes. Yeah. I do for like for author things, and I did a little bit before my book came out Q. But this last week was world read aloud week who'll I read aloud. Julie here. Life is the best. Now, Julie I don't wanna give away a million dollar idea. But have you thought about writing a book about Cosmo? You know, the biggest reason that I would write a book about Cosmo is because then I could bring him with me. Prices because you know, I'm mad Margaret Wilson in January finally after all this time of talking online, but she didn't make Cosmo because we were at a library conference. They don't let dogs in. But I think like Rummy cat and boo the world cutest dog. Like, I think that they got to go to the conferences because they're the celebrity exactly and totally need to to write a book about him. Definitely gonna get turned into a movie and wanted to say no to a movie star dog. Yeah. I do like the you applied that Cosmo definitely play himself. Probably drew that doesn't happen and other bio-pics. But not in other 'bio-pics like Jerry Lewis play Jerry Lewis. That's not how that works carry cutest causing thought about. I thought about the way he looked and also we brush. This wind actually have a question for you guys. E my ten is he's doing this circus with his friends, and he's trying to think of what to do in the circus. And apparently our kids have never been to the circus haven't. But I don't even know what one is because he was going do karaoke. Combat really. Stuck and stuff. He realized he could do dog tricks like animal tricks. So he today just today he trained Cosmo to like jump over this broomstick. But I think eventually it'll be a hula-hoop or something like that like jump through a hoop. But what other good things that we could be like train Cosmo to do in the circus. The best question ever, the play dead like the gunshot. We do that with buttercup coupla bang where like you, you know, kind of like kind of a death scene kind of trick that always goes over really. Well, also just met a dog who can clap. Swing that. That's listen. That's a tall order. But but yeah, the Dunkin clap for the big grand finale. Do you win? Can you go that great army crawl is always great having crawl under something that's a cute? That'd be great. Have him do your taxes? Take a little bit longer to train. Yeah. But hills every time I also used to do the animal actor show at Universal Studios. In a big hit is if the dog goes off and brings in an undergarment that crowd loves Larry. He's not appropriate for ten year old that they bring no. Dot boxers. Sexy underwear. That someone bloomers. My child is. I'm trying to say a good note. Circuits you guys mostly to Sola. Allegra only goes to sexy underpaying the sex. Okay. So that we can all these tricks under Cosmo's bounce does. He have any other funny behaviors that that he does right now. What I was thinking about this. There's so many things that he does that. I thought were like cute an amazing things. But then it turns out that they're just normal dog things like that way that he broS under the the blankets and stuff to sweep the people feel like I thought oh my gosh. That's amazing thing that he does. But I believe dogs do that. Like sleeping sunshine. I'm like people put pictures of their dog. Why out in the on the tile in the bathroom when it's really hot? And Thomas always up that I thought that was some amazing thing that he liked to sleep in the sun like a cat. But I guess do that all the time. He thing which is he he seems along with Henry when Henry plays his Flint. I'm Cosmo will not ways. But I think if it's a particular song and last year when hundred was getting ready for the Memorial Day parade, and he's playing a lot of like Susa and patriotic songs it really moved him. Oh my gosh. And he doesn't really like a very serious dog. Like, he's not a big goofy smiley dog. He's very serious. And so he will swing over and we're Henry's playing and he's it looks almost embarrassed feels moved to sing. Like, maybe they won't notice and without really moving his mouth all. Video get a video of this. And so I have a video of it. So I could find it much like he'll like. Yeah. Makes you so happy. Final question. Are you available to adopt us fan? Okay. Great. Cast over. And I can bring my soul mate Margaret with us. Base is going to be the new full house. This house an hour for me. I don't know why she doesn't come up, and then we can get on that. Okay. So we're all moving to Julie's house. But right before we do that we have one final real final question for your Julie. As you know, we give all of our podcast guests a dog breed sex, and you have to name them. Okay. Rene what he's saying? I think Siberian husky do we know what that looks like kind of like a sled dog. Yeah. Good. That is a girl. Great think grad. That is so excellent. Excellent. Perfect twice. Julie. And where can we can we buy your book? And where can we find you on the internet, you I think you can buy my book in almost any bookstore. Any? And then I'm at Juliet co dot com and on Twitter. I'm at Julie flacco awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Everyone. This is the best. I'm in such a good mood. Now. Thank you. All right. Doug news. Here we go now. You got that theme. Song ready for me? Nope. Okay. Here we go one two deleted. Traffic every. Practice. The other version into practice. I probably was the one that win dog do. It was actually pretty well. A weird Midi version. All right, guys, ready. Nowhere nonsense. Let's continue small dog locus. The thing. I decided it is now while I wake this dog news is about the great Showa airlifts. Oh boy. Thank you in our for posting this on our Facebook group. So we project called the great show. Our airlift has received one thousand one thousand dog on Wednesday, the animal humane society in the Minneapolis Saint Paul region receive it's one thousand Walla hoping to find a home in Minnesota, thanks to an unusual program. These are flown in from our of California. So this is a partnership between this Minnesota animal. Humane society and California nonprofit called compassion without borders. They fly into L was from California where there is a glut of wa wa thanks to a bunch of different reasons. Fly them to Minnesota where the breed is not common and so more adoptable. Because people think it's cooler, basically in California chihuahuas in Chihuahua mixes tend to stay in shelters for a long time because they're kind of like just another show because you do see them here everywhere. But in Minnesota, they fly off the shelves one. Vet tech said when they hit the adoption floor sometimes are gone that day, which is really awesome interesting. Because to me, I do each well was like ten times a day. Yeah. So it's interesting to think of them as a novel breed the program is so successful that now some California two hours or being flown to other locations, like Toronto and Madison Wisconsin, look interesting rates right now while you were doing it. I want to come up with a fun name for that plane, and I haven't found the plane itself. Yeah. With like, not a puppy plane. But something was yeah. But with like a like a chill Charrier. Well. Good chariot. Yeah. It's not bad. What do you think? Drives. You got pretty good pretty fish. You thinking about it. To train you train. Can we please for Chihuahua chairlift? But that was a completely different thing. Just picture. Okay. Because your second. Pitcher WaWa in light little ski goggles and like a full on ski suit with skis on. Yeah. And the thing on a little chairlift, your welcome that carry you through the debt that will I say like this program continues to progress. It's probably going to be necessary. We're gonna little Chihuahua chairlift a to to to to the chairlift. We're gonna take very snowy places put him on a little chairlifts wheelchair lift careful because you don't wanna walk into like into the ski lodge and find little chihuahuas and little leg braces, drink in their hot cocoa. Like, I was on the slow. Let's say that. I you're right. I don't think that there's not other places. Yeah. Right. I don't think that there's not. Other places. So you do think that there are Toronto. Okay. Go ahead. See if you can put it together. I'm scared. So you you're not surprised that there are not trawlers of brain thinks that there was everywhere. Here's why legally blonde the smash hit musical for me. But for you. Well, and they do think that one of the reasons I don't think they're totally sure. But like in the kind of the nineties kind of saw a lot of like. Penny blonde. Women carrying show kind of stigmatized show. Yeah. Little bit. Like, there was a huge thing. Paris. Paris Hilton's dog learned just pass away at the age of fourteen. They think is responsible for part of the trend. So yeah, I do think in legally blonde was like a big thing. So it is interesting. But I think that it's stigmatized because you look at these places where it's a little bit more like harsher weather, and you're talking about like Saint Paul Minnesota. There's idea of like, okay. Well, those are more of like warm weather, you know, especially if you just thinking from from Mexico, and you see him place in California that it's probably like people aren't thinking about a until they see them in the shelter. And they're like, oh, right. That's the door. It made me wonder too because I certainly think of like, oh and other countries they have breeds that are more common whenever than they are here. But I never think of it as a state by state thing the US. Yes, I'm curious. What breeds are we missing out on here who probably a lot of golden retrievers thicker coated, heavier that. Yeah, I bet because you see a lot of pit bulls and chihuahuas. Yeah. Excuse me, Google, terrier Chihuahua and California dR shelters. You don't see as many like, you know, the furrier warmer breeds strip. Yeah. Because you don't need it. I may I make a little just a career or maybe life suggestion for you miss. Allegra you like a little getaway. I do. Once your dog is turned into the smash TV show voice over production company record company books. All the things that we've set up the money. You gotta hate us. We send you to Minnesota you sell Chihuahua clothing, cold puppies, say a Chihuahua flight attendants. Better known milk bone role. Hide Ron mill. If you need to sniff the button. You came through. That's funny. Could you? Okay. That's could drop over one here. We'll get together. We'll hang around the details. Well, okay. Here's why because I can do both afloat whacking wagon. Found it. So I'll go ahead over to Minnesota. I'll fly over there to sell dog close yells close on the way over I will be flight attendants this way, my flights covered first of all, obviously. Yeah. And I'm selling milk loans. All right grace. All right for that. I'm gonna miss you. When you have to come back. But I think during will come back in the winter. Okay. Great story. Thank you. That's that's it that is it for this show work everybody. Thank you. I really felt like I was nailing. I was on fire. I was on fire doesn't help me on. Yeah. That's what let's I'm glad that we have that religion, enable you Travis you've got this. If we do that, you won't believe that you can put yourself out. It'll be a big thing. It's true say to maximum fun dot org. As we mentioned earlier max fund drive is coming up. But before that, you take his paternity to go to maximum fun dot org and check out all the other amazing shows. There's a ton of of them, and they are all great checkout saw bones checkout bunker, buddies, which I do and Brid check checkout sh- manners. Which I also do check out hop rocket, which I do not do great international waters, which is great. There's a lot of really really good shows on there. You're gonna find a lot. The please follow us on social media. We are on Twitter and Instagram at CIP, Wendy podcast. We're also on Facebook. If you just search can I pet your dog? We have a really fun group attitude, and there's tons and tons of dog pictures, and if you guys haven't done it already please rate reviewing subscribe to on itunes. You guys have been so nice for those of you have done it. Thank you so much for taking the time to write those nice words, I've yet pop on over into that for us. And every time we put. A new episode. We're going to tweet on that there's a link, and you know, kind of tweet like new episodes up if you could do us favor and make sure to re tweet out and share the link on Facebook and tell people about it. It's really the only way we have of getting the word out about the show is that you tell friends so doing that is a really easy thing that only takes you a second. And does a lot for us. So we really appreciate it. We like to thank page while in for our logo Aaron Haden for our theme song that does it for this week. Can I pick your dog dog? Maximum fund dot org, comedy and culture, artists owned listener supported.
Cave Bytes Danny Cannon On Gotham
"Hi Welcome to season two of bite. This is Tony Tiller and so parenting an apocalypse. It's it's not the same way that. You know how it works any views usually two to four minutes long but sometimes they can be a little longer only when you when you live long enough all kinds of strange things happen. Very right in saying that the Greek heroes where the original superheroes. In part because of the hopeful nature of genes vision but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion. Cave. Bite has one of the show runners of Gaza. Danny can. Talk to me at the beginning of season one. What was the visual sensibility in aesthetic that you are trying to get across in Gotham as opposed to the other Batman related projects or you just trying to make this totally different? Well, no, no no. Completely different because you know I wanted to fit into into this great cannon, the work that's been gone for seventy five years. but at the same time might make it contemporary. And at the same time, it's twenty years from from Batman basically. So. We talked about a few things myself in the rights and when we first met and it seemed like everything we had in that first meeting as played out which is. New York in the seventies was was a a brilliant dangerous time like light seventies. Not just because of all the graffiti on trains and the rundown and Harlem, and all these dangerous places that you could go to his fooling down places but culturally, it was really good music films. It was a hip hop star. Know. New Wave. Everything. Would it culturally it was really great. We talked about that law but the talks about the Kennedy in. London. And and the have and the have nots and that industrial revolution age and. That something I wanted to bring into the fact that city that hasn't been gentrified yet is still locked in the past and probably falling down a little bit. So all the sets of design slightly askew with like slightly going down you know like the whole thing is crumbling been held up with good and things like that, and then the last thing we spoke about was rim fairy tales and and the fact that as adult fairy tale element to. To honor the comic book idea of it. And so those three elements thrown together. And then must is to keep your feet on the ground. So it's it feels really reliable. It seems like it also has a color, its own color Palette jet texture that we haven't really seen in other comic book adaptations to now I mean that was just because with all of those influences coming in there are certain gels you caught through. There was a contemporary look we didn't do. We could do a test now bicycler whereas like is this often cars that cars this governed governor it's the same thing as colors and. Trying to get the crews taste and and and the performance tastes into that same thing. It's it's good and it was easier than we thought. You know it's it's quite. Nobody knows what period is if feels comfortable because it feels very familiar. That yet, but nothing sticking out you to to portray that. Theatrical reality that was one of the series executive producers and Danny Cannon, whose asked if Gotham itself as a character in this without doubt. Yeah. Without doubt that's why the show that was very much. Bruno's intentions had to be a character and all the designing I did was was was on that. Was myself in the production. drew for a long time just to get I found myself. It wasn't just drawing the new buildings that wanted to insert into New York will take away the glass buildings out of New York. Older Dickensian style attended the century English buildings It it I I. Drew Skies, and that was I don't know where that came from US listened to music and I'd start during stormy skies everywhere and I was like. That's it that stat stats when I got it was when I I put stormy sky on everything. Now, Gotham is a huge hit on twitter. How do feel about beating every other show on twitter are really Fila get on twitter? Obviously doesn't need me. Yeah right yeah. I think that's wonderful I. You know to be talked about Israeli sometimes even better than watched I think it would be I. I. It's Great. As long as I can promise those nice people that allowed that to happen that the show gets better and better, and there's plenty to talk about are there any character storylines you would like to bring in that you haven't brought in already? We have a great relationship with DC and we sit down with them constantly and Ask about origins of various characters and. It's amazing. How many don't have Origins. Many characters just turned up his bad guys you know in the and so. It's really. We feel on to be able to go back in this. Great. Legacy and and and UH. site. Okay. So how did they turn up like that? How did they have? So. Yeah. Now we're having a lot of fun. Gotham is available on, HBO tax. For Bite this is Tony. Tiller.
Cave Bytes Danny Cannon On Gotham
"Hi welcome to season two of bite. This is tony tiller parenting an apocalypse. It's it's not the same way you know how it works. Any views usually two to four minutes long but sometimes they can be a little longer. Only when you when you live long enough. All kinds of strange things happen very right in saying that. The greek heroes. Where the original superheroes in part because of the hopeful nature of genes vision but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion cave bite has one of the show runners of gaza. Danny can talk to me at the beginning of season one. What was the visual sensibility in aesthetic. That you are trying to get across in gotham as opposed to the other batman related projects. Or you just trying to make this totally different. Well no no no completely different because you know. I wanted to fit into into this great cannon. The work that's been gone for seventy five years but at the same time might make it contemporary and at the same time. It's twenty years from from batman basically so we talked about a few things myself in the right and when we first met and it seemed like everything we had in that first meeting as played out which is new. York in the seventies was was a a brilliant dangerous time like light seventies. Not just because of all the graffiti on trains and the rundown and harlem and all these dangerous places that you could go to his fooling down places but culturally. It was really good music films. It was a hip hop star. Know new wave everything. would it culturally. It was really great. We talked about that law but the talks about the kennedy in london and and the have and the have nots and that industrial revolution age. And that something. I wanted to bring into the fact that city that hasn't been gentrified yet is still locked in the past and probably falling down a little bit so all the sets of design slightly askew with like slightly going down. You know like the whole thing is crumbling. Been held up with Good and things like that. And then the last thing we spoke about was rim fairytales and and the fact that as adults fairy tale element to to honor the comic book idea of it and so those three elements thrown together and then must is to keep your feet on the ground. so it's it feels really reliable. It seems like it also has a color its own color palette jet texture that we haven't really seen in other comic book adaptations to now. I mean that was just because With all of those influences coming in there are certain gels you caught through. There was a contemporary look. We didn't do. We could do a test now bicyc- whereas like is this often cars that govern cars this governed governor. It's the same thing as colors and trying to get the crews taste and and and the performance tastes into that same thing. It's it's good and it was easier than we thought you know. It's it's quite. Nobody knows what period is. It feels comfortable because it feels very familiar That yet but nothing sticking out you to to portray that theatrical reality that was one of the series executive producers and danny cannon who asked if gotham itself as a character in this without doubt. Yeah without doubt. That's why the show that was very much bruno's intentions had to be a character and all the designing i did was was was on. That was Myself in the production Drew for a long time just to get. I found myself. It wasn't just drawing. The new buildings that wanted to insert into new york will take away. The glass buildings out of new york older dickensian style attended the century. English buildings It it i. I drew skies and that was. I don't know where that came from us. Listened to music. And i'd start during stormy skies everywhere and i was like that's it that stat stats when i got it was when i i put stormy sky on everything now. Gotham is a huge hit on twitter. How do feel about beating every other show on. Twitter are really fila get on twitter. Obviously doesn't need me. Yeah right yeah. I think that's wonderful. I you know to be talked about. Israeli sometimes even better than watched I think it would be i. I it's great. As long as i can promise those nice people that allowed that to happen that the show gets better and better and there's plenty to talk about. Are there any character storylines. You would like to bring in that. You haven't brought in already. We have a great relationship with dc and we sit down with them constantly and ask about origins of various characters and It's amazing how many don't have origins many characters just turned up his bad guys. You know in the and so it's really we feel on to be able to go back in this great legacy and and and uh site okay. So how did they turn up like that. How did they have so yeah. Now we're having a lot of fun. Ghassem is available on. Hbo max for bite. This is tony tiller.
Proposition 21: Rent Control
"From Cutie. Welcomed Monday people I hope you had a great weekend maybe got a chance to catch up on the seven bay curious prop fest episodes that are already live. Today we're onto proposition twenty one I'm Olivia Allen Price. Ads Proposition twenty, one, the rent control prop are everywhere. You've probably heard some of them did homelessness get so bad. Keep families in their homes built. Yes. In Prague twenty-one, this California is in a deep hole with a shortage of affordable housing prop twenty-one digs in even deeper hole. Note Noise Zolia. Your rent control has become a perennial issue in California elections. But how is this year's law different from others that we've seen? That's what we're here to figure out stick around. Support for bakeries comes from Sierra Nevada, brewing company no matter how people enjoy the outdoors Sierra Nevada wants to help make sure their voices are heard. Sierra. Nevada supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign learn more at Sierra Nevada dot com. Like so many of the propositions on our ballot this year proposition twenty, one on rent control proposes changing an existing law. In this case, it's called the cost to Hawkins Rental Housing Act, and before we can talk about prop twenty one, you really need to know how it works. Reporter plot check explains in California rent control limits how much a landlord can raise rent year after year and right now, only fifteen cities in the state have some form of rent control. It's really the bigger cities those so San. Francisco Oakland San Jose. This is Matt Levin, a data reporter for CAL, matters and Co host of the housing podcast Gimme shelter, and he says even in those cities, not every home is under rent control. That's because of this nineteen ninety five law that was trying to encourage building by limiting rent control. It's called the Cost Hawkins Rental Housing Act passed by one vote that sheeps rent control policy across California. It's a huge deal that most people know very little about an limits rent control in two big ways. I Cost Hawkins made it. So an attendant moves out of rent controlled apartment the landlord can raise rent to whatever they want. This is called vacancy decontrol nicey. All departments all the time, their total pieces of crap and they're. They're they're charging like. Brazilian dollars right. But once you get into that apartment. They're limited in how much more they can raise it every time a person moves out, they can reset it Kosta Hawkins also made it. So you cannot have rent control on most single family homes or condos meaning most of the suburbs can't be rent controlled and you can't have rent control on new buildings. So the law created a cutoff date do you can't impose rent control on properties that were built after? Nineteen, ninety five as for the cities that already had rent control cost to Hawkins. Froze their cut off dates where they stood in Oakland the cutoff is in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, three, Berkeley is one, thousand, nine, hundred eighty while in San, Jose and San. Francisco nothing built after Nineteen seventy-nine can have rent control. So anything new in Nice looking in San Francisco is not going to have rent control on it. Proposition twenty one, what we're voting on this year would overturn that cost a Hawkins Housing Act and shift future decisions about rent control from the state to local governments. Now, the economics of rent control who it works for and who it works against are debated and we don't have time to get into all of that on today's show. We do have an episode from a few years ago. That does look closer at issue we'll put a link in our show notes. So if you find yourself wondering, go give that a listen. Okay back to proposition twenty one cake you reporter Joe. Fitzgerald Rodriguez is here to help us untangle it. All welcome Joe. So give us the top line for proper twenty one. What does it do? Well, it's very easy to misunderstand. The whole premise in does not impose new rent control laws. But what prop Tony One does do is allow these to pass their own rent control laws. So they can make their own ten protections on more recently built buildings with some exceptions and the details on this one really matter because we did see a similar. Proposition. Two years ago which California voters turned down now, the same tenants rights groups are back, but they've made some changes this time around what are the specifics here we'll probably one really does three things. I would overturn the Statewide Cost Hawkins Law allow lawmakers to make decisions about whether or not to have rent control getting rid of Casa Hawkins also means doing away with vacancy decontrol water. I mean, that's a wonky were decontrol. Basically means if a tenant leaves rent controlled unit, the landlord could no longer crank up the rent to above market levels they'd be able to raise the rent fifteen percent over the first three years. So under prop twenty one, let's say a tenant moves out and they were paying a thousand dollars in rent wouldn't that be a dream? And then a new tenant moves in the landlord could only raise the rent by fifteen percent, which would be one, thousand, one, hundred and fifty dollars and no higher, right right good back of the Napkin map. Thanks and what about the third thing prop twenty one would do It also has provision that says after new building goes up, the developer can charge whatever they want for the first fifteen years. That's so they can make their money back after fifteen years. The city has rang control that building would then be subject to the local ring control laws. This was added by the authors of the prop twenty one to address criticism that more rang control might deter developers from building more housing, and that's a common critique of rent control as General that. Basically they cost less development and that could actually drive market rate rents in the city up. Yeah. It's a very old saw oft repeated. Between one would do is it makes an exception for small landlords who out one or two single family homes there the little guy. So this would not apply to them. However, if an individual owns a multi unit building prop Tony One would still apply to their property. Now. Here's a bit of a wrinkle on prop twenty one a state law just went into effect that caps rent increases statewide in many cases even cities that are not currently covered by local Rent Control Law Joe tells about that law and how it's different from prop twenty-one. Well, it seems you're talking about California attendant protection. act. Passed in twenty nineteen. Are you a renter in California? Your rights may have grown under a new law that tenant protect for buildings in locales that are not already under rent control. Now, just to be clear, it does not supersede existing rent control. But if you aren't protected, it would cap the amount of rent that your landlord could raise by five percent. It also says that landlords have to have just cause to evict someone and just cause is pretty much how it sounds like a right a right 'cause right if you didn't pay your rent if you were violent if there's a health issue that you've created inside your apartment. Those are all just causes that can lead to your vision. I will add as a quick addendum. There are other ten protections for the pandemic that recently passed out of the state that prevents landlords from kicking out if you lost your job due to the pandemic and you swear to it under penalty of perjury but essentially, this being teens, the landlord's ability to evict you a for some just causes. And it also sunsets in twenty thirty but that's actually part of the critique. The prop twenty one proponents are like well, Hey, guys this sunsets in two, thousand, thirty. That's way too. Soon, we have a pandemic we have a potential pandemic fuelled recession. We don't know how long it will last. We don't know how long the economic effects will last and they maintain a lot of these protections while the. Sound. Good were meant to undercut prop twenty one and we're in fact calculated political methods of doing just that. Okay. Let's turn our attention back to prop twenty one who is supporting it and what are their arguments? Yeah. So Michael Weinstein the president of the AIDS Healthcare Foundation is a perennial supporter of trying to repeal Casa Hawkins and put this on the ballot. It may seem a little far afield. From AIDS help to be spending on housing and rent laws. But the Organization makes the argument that housing is healthcare and that's an opinion shared widely in the homelessness community where many folks dying of ailments on the streets other supporters include former presidential runner, Bernie Sanders, the Democratic Party, and tenants rights, groups broadly, they argue that this is an issue of local control that there are lots of different kinds. Of Communities in California with lots of different needs and local lawmakers should be able to make policies that fit their locale. They also say, Hi rents are pushing people out of California and increasingly mental properties are owned by big companies who are making a killing while making the affordability problems worse. This is especially pronounced during the pandemic where Latin next and black households are specially hurt by job losses dacoven. Nineteen and they say that they listen to voter concerns that rent control could possibly discourage developers from building more housing, which is why they have that fifteen year provisions that we talked about earlier. Let's hear about the opposition well, notably a pretty big opposition governor, Gavin newsom but also construction groups, business groups, landlord groups they say the law that went into effect earlier this year covers a lot of the. Same ground as prop twenty one and they say that rent control is not the ultimate answer to California's housing problem. They say a lack of housing as the problem. So we should not be passing a law that could discourage development of that needed housing. Now, they don't think the fifteen year window of market rate rent enough to mitigate the potential downsides of this proposition of potentially discouraging development and finally. They argue this could hit seniors particularly hard many people live off rental income in their old age, and this could sap their wallets when they have no other source of income. Let's move on to the campaign finance here. So how is financing looking on twenty one? Yeah. Well, the opposition is far outspending yes. On prop twenty one that's forty, two, million dollars on the No side. That's developers right? It's. Basically. Twenty four million dollars on the aside I mean it doesn't take rocket scientist to see who would be against it. Right. As you're saying, it's property management firms as developers, the Apartment Association of Los Angeles, which represents landlords basically anyone who stands to profit from having higher rents is putting money in now to make sure they can keep them. All Right Katie reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez. Thank you so much. You. Let's recap that. Shall We vote? Yes. On proposition twenty one means you want cities to have the power to pass or. Local rent control. On, almost all rental housing as long as it's at least fifteen years old a no vote means you want state limits on rent control to stay in place. Bay Curious is produced by Katrina Schwarz Rob. Speight. Katie. mcmurray. And Me Olivia Allen Price. But we could not do it without the help of the entire newsroom. Check out more election coverage at. Qa d dot Org slash elections. Tomorrow we take on proposition twenty two, the most expensive proposition in California history. Bay. Curious is made in San Francisco at member supported K. Q. E. D. I'll. See You tomorrow.
"What's the secret to a happy life for the answer? Join us in Madrid from Thursday, the twenty seventh to Saturday, the twenty ninth of June for Monica's fifth annual quality of life conference. Head to conference dot Monaco dot com for all the details and to buy, your ticket, Monaco, keeping an eye and here on the world. Hello, and welcome to, Monaco, twenty fours, the finest the show all about the cities. We live in. I'm Angie tuck coming up on this week's program. For the first time ever, you connect see the impacts of Dement of tool schemes have been consented across the hold of London. The future acities is often hard to visualize one clever new digital two shows what cities like today, and how propose projects will impact on tomorrow's urban environments. We also take a look up in Toronto, rather, provincial government plans to loosen the reigns on high rises impact the city. We also visit a news EM in Sarajevo, the tells a story of this battle hardened city all that coming up right here on the east with me under talk. So welcome to this week's program planners developers, and you and me are always keen to know how a new building, for example will impact on the cities, that we live in and care about how create visualizations of cities becomes key, these tools, allow for a more informed decision making process and faster more collaborative working saving time and money in both the design, and planning of spaces. Well, one, you platform has just launched to offers a more comprehensive digital view of acids than ever before view cities recently launched smart city, three D provides the largest and most accurate three d models, Fasces, the show, the impact of new buildings and infrastructure on their surrounding environments, and all accurate within fifteen centimeters the project launch with the whole of London being. Modeled as well as the centers of other major cities, including New York Paris, Manchester, Birmingham, Belfast, Brighton, and Oxford and now, the, the world in their sights earlier, I was joined by view city's founding director Jason Hawthorne who explained exactly what the platform is, and how it can revolutionize the planning process. View city is digital model of London, and it's very accurate three-dimensional model that we've created we built it from photographic, which is where you fly over the city use stereo pairs of imagery, and then you manually build all of the buildings and then we've put without together into a game engine, which is unity driven, which means that we can now access this very accurate. Fifteen centimeter, plus or minus in terms of accuracy, this model of London. Plus also to a over the entire one thousand six hundred nineteen square kilometers, where does that information come from you? We know as amateurs, women. Go on Google maps, for example, we can make three versions of many places than very far as I can see. And they distort uses something extraordinarily different. How'd you get all the data to build up every single building in London, for example, obviously, I mean, the Google maps are very impressive and direction to us. But later them up from a process where the latest gun and the us imagery. But they create a computer driven algorithm. Which then, creates the mesh forms their model but it doesn't allow the level of accuracy that we need. And we were very much predicated when we were building on using it for planning for design for architects. So when we flown the cities and got all Rimma jury we actually use this purchase fudge Goma CHU. Jesuit was is developed in the war from spy planes to look, you know, what was happening in Germany in terms of buildings, and get proper true three dimensional imagery format, it's obviously evolved a lot since then. But we use that same process. So all of the buildings of actually traced in three d by human. And so we have a two hundred fifteen strong modeling team model in each of the buildings, the nuts, really how we can then build up layers of information and make the models Accu as we've got it. And the client in this is in London of a half of the, the planning authorities or ready seem to be using the council's seem to be using it is it for them so that they can get insight to the impact the building might have on a neighborhood, who are your clients, when we started? We really were I Ming helping the developer clients in terms of bringing s games forward and being able to see them in context of sevens. And there was one particular scheme had a client where that'd be nice to meet their scream smaller reduce the height of it. And the muffing when we put in context of surroundings, probably didn't look, as out of kilter, as maybe it did on its own, and that I was the inspiration to try and do something where we could. Look at change to the built environment over much wider scale and start to make decisions and it really was an aide at that stage to the architects, and developers. But we very quickly recognized if we were going to ask the design teams to spend a lot of time and energy, in view city to less games forward. If then went to the decision makers, and they didn't recognize the validity of what we've created that would be a real stumbling point four. So we then changed and realize that if we could show the merit some value to the local authorities, and if you like show them what they could do it. Now they could assess games come forward that we would close the circle, we'd complete the circle and thus been very successful. We had fantastic engagement. We knew he three quarters of the lacrosse OT's now signed using v city and for them, I think it's the first time that they feel the had a, a sense of being able to under stunts games from the start from the beginning, a minority good example of this was working with so the. Oh can road. There's a whole area action must upon there and lots of different developers bringing schemes forward, but they were able to compile everybody's designs and ideas in one space and start to look at it as a whole and complete pitcher an it also then starts to describe an explain and create the brief if you like feature develop is coming forward. So it's there's no one client. It's a mix but we certainly get into a stage now whereas more and more users using view city that we can actually look these schemes literate from appraisal, right? The way through to sales the fascinating thing because it's not a map that static of the city. Now, you can look what the city's going to look like in five ten twenty years time if people upload that projects. And if you have access those so you can take a scheme, that's going to be inserted into city, what it's gonna do with other projects is not the kind of time that's been out to be done in such kind of accurate way. There's definitely be. Models where people have used and they've shown, you knew smoother areas and shown a number schemes come forward and actually probably the one that she's most is around the city cluster seems to be the kind of Honey pot of, of design and visualization. But it certainly the first time that this has been possible across the whole of London. I mean thirty two thirty three land numbers if you count the city of London as well. You know that's an extensive areas, one thousand six hundred twenty square comas that we've modeled with putting into view city, all of the consented game Sola major consented schemes. And yes, definitely it's the first time that has been a compilation of visual completion of that. And so you can see this game's not only as they've got planning consent. But when implemented as well, so there's a difference, and you can see when they've actually started to build them. The other interesting clam, is, of course, as a lay person can you can see how it helps you on the stand mass the basic thing is building too big. But some the other things you begin to unpack this the potential to. To see whether it's going to funnel wind whether it's going to cost shadow, how do those things work is that down to actually having someone who's a bit of a skilled engineer at the end of the process, or is not reflected actually, within view city, the number of elements to that, just pocket a little bit in some choose, there's always a skilled element to understanding things like impacts of daylight and sunlight and wind. But there are some quick winds there in so much as we have a tool within view city where you can move the sun through the model. So therefore, you can see and understand overshadowing, but the whole daylight issue is far more complex than the and in fact, one of the founding partners if you cities geo they are specialists in the area in terms of impacts to savannah buildings in the same way that we're actually working with wind analysis, and there's another horrible acronym, which you see FDU which is computational fluid dynamics, which is essentially win modeling thinking about how is win defected by the buildings that were surrounded by. And delicious of is very complex to understand, but we can I she then change that into sort of streams of color running through the city model, which is then very easily accessible by anybody to understand. And look, you know, if the lots of red streams wind is going to be really quick here and blue is noise. And, and so think that's for me. We start to make it much easier for people to gain access to what the impacts of planning and change means even to the point to what we're doing now is, we're starting to evolve a product which would be to take you city to smartphones and say, you'll stood on the street in a location show me back through my smartphone. What this area of London will look like what change you'll be able to comment and be involved in that the interesting thing is does this tool because it's a really beautiful things. Look at it as extraordinarily level of detail, but does it begin to put some tools in hand, ordinary citizens as well if they get access via their local authority, for example, to see what? Change is a plan to their neighborhood. They may not be able to have a computer science model that kind of works out the wind funneling, but they may think physically this looks on comfortable for me. Oh, actually this is good. I, I would support such a project. I'm -solutely. I, she think that if anything that's come out of the process that we've been evolving in creating over the last three or four years is the recognition to we can involve more people in the process, and of course, the sort of citizens, or public that includes yourselves was we have specialist areas, but we should still be able to be involved in all aspects of planning and commentary on it. I think for the first time we've got a real sense of a chance of engagement, a wide scale. So they've all some great digital toes out there for now engagement through planning, which one to harness what we've done with those make it much easier for people to be able to access what change looks like and multiple schemes come forward, whereas usually consultation is based around one scheme, and it's driven by. The developer and parts of the process replanning, but actually shouldn't we'll be able to comment on everything. And how London is changing across the board, rather than justness won't scheme invited to comment on. You've got London under your belt, but also Parison Bristol. And I believe you heading to the by once you've done. One city, is it much quicker than bring on all these other places because, you know how the process works definitely the platform scales in that way in so much over, two sets we've created and the way you manipulate the model we can definitely use across lots of cities. We still have the modeling to do, so we still have to fly over the cities, and we still have to create the accurate piece of modeling because without that we are by to an amorphous shaped model with certainly a skull now, though where we are actually coming off nearly hundred fifteen square kilometers a month, which means that we can do you know, the whole of Bristol, for instance, in one month, we could build on model flights up the moment. So. When very long before that will be complete we've done central areas of Manchester, and Birmingham, and in discussion with she'll g so central government. We've been targeted with twenty the grosses in the UK. So certainly a level of focus for us. But you why internationally as well. We've got central areas of Paris with also just recently model twenty square kilometers of Manhattan as well. So Embiid are definitely to be looking globally. That was the founding director of you city Jason Hawthorne. What's the secret to a happy life? Join us in June in Madrid for Monaco's fifth annual quality of life conference to find out we'll be asking the important questions. Proffering a few unexpected answers on everything from the future of our cities to deft design penalty to the finer things in life. You'll find council from the food players, laying the table for success, the entrepreneurs we're backing and plenty of lessons, scoops, and insights, gleaned in the Spanish, capital and beyond. You'll make the likes of Carlos whose any pioneer of the slow shopping concept, Toby showing us how to perfectly culture and consumption, 'enrich pasta will tell us how to create a design magazine to lost the Spanish, media seen the rest of the world award winning journalist documentary maker run heavy. We'll tell us to capture the moments that that's and ogre kaffa journey. Former Greek minister of tourism will tell us how to get resorts in the med back on track. The Monica quality of life conference takes place in Madrid from the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of June, and there's more good news. If you're a monocle subscriber you get ten percent discount, head to conference Monaco dot com now. And what's the film from last year's event? Fire ticket for this year's edition, Monaco, keeping an eye and then on the world. Next. We head to Sarajevo city, whose museums have struggled for decades, the siege of Bosnia's capital ended more than twenty years ago. But funding for culture remains pitifully low now, though, there's a new museum, which hopes to sum up the spirit of the city is dedicated to a film about a legend of Sarajevo, the partisan fighter known as vaulter the movie Valter defense, Sarajevo was released in the nineteen seventies becoming one of the best love, films, not just in Yugoslavia, but also in China and the new museum hopes track tourists who want to see the filming locations for themselves Markle's man in the Balkans guide to law, went to Sarajevo to see for himself. Here in San Diego. Vaulter retains the status of a national icon. I'm studying in front of a burst of the real man himself, and it says people's hero Vladimir Pedic vaulter, noting that he died here in Sarajevo in nineteen forty five right on the day that the city was liberated. Valter is an idea about the identity of Sarajevo war, correspondent, Ida chair cash says the real Volta remains an inspiration to people struggling with life in modern day Bosnia, Valter is an idea about the identity of Sarah Sarah likes to view itself as different than anything else and calls itself something, sometimes very arrogantly planet, Sarajevo, you know, now, a planet has to have its hero and vaulted happens to be the hero of. Of planet story. Vaulter is the second World War figure and at the time nobody knew who will to was during the second World War, and that was the beauty of it people in this illegal organization would get orders like vaulter said, you should do this, and that, and they would listen but they wouldn't know Voltaire is so for them already vaulter was an idea resistance against the occupation independence and the sense of being together like regardless of religion or whatever, divides people. And that's why it's relevant today. Oh, it's always relevant. Saturday was is fighting the spiritual war since its conception. I think. And if you've got an ideal the next step is to turn it into a legend by mortar Leising it on celluloid. Volta defense able celebrates the most heroic figure in the history of Bosnia's capital and the film has become almost as icon, icus at subject to this day. People can quote chunks of the dialogue. It's rather, like the bulk of Casablanca, instead of this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. You have you see that city that is vaulter? It's director was hired in cut off at a specialist in the so-called partisan western genre. His biographer is an abortion advantage being devoted to John Ruth like vests third, or for action movies as ever made in Britain, or, or the US, obviously, his movies were always more closer to the realm of fantasy as it were action fantasies about the second World War, then to the reality, which is in a way funny because himself was partisan Beck in the. Second World War, and in all of his movies. There is always some grain of historical actual factual through. About. That is a politician. The program. Success in Tito era, Yugoslavia is one thing, but vaulted defend Sarajevo achieved an unlikely crossover China started opening up to a limited number of foreign films in the nineteen seventies and Valter surfed on wave spectacularly sparking an enduring level phar- between Chinese audiences. And this particular part is on western Chinese audience recognize in this film, universal stories about good versus bad. The stories about brotherhood about solidarity revolutionary solidarity. Museum dedicated to China's favor to Yugoslav movie. Certainly makes good sense when you consider the rapid increase in tourist arrivals, film ski sent Assadi evill took on the challenge and open the museum's doors in April. It's not the biggest museum you'll ever. See, but there are props from the film and re-creations of the sets general manager. Yes. Been deroga- vich hoops, visitors will also take tolls of the filming locations around the city, the really will move and it has caused that with one of the most famous films shown in China ever, and not just in Kano, some other countries when you ask them, what they know about your Slavia Bosnia Serbia, whatever, they always know for this movie this is for damn something, this, the first association for these part of Europe for them this movie beside the museum, you'll have you'll have small deputy in the city that will be part of the Theresa crew to about the defense. That, that would be some kind of gal mapping, the museum, it's a part of it is not just getting people into the museum, but also getting out will be really on the on the places was film really shooting and everything is situated located, you know, to commuters. So from that point to this amusing them touristic can also get to know a bit more surreal. Does. That's it's a chance to see the city through the eyes of a partisan fighter in the nineteen forties. And when you reach the old barracks above the city, make sure you look across the skyline. And repeat, the immortal words, you see that city that is voter the monocle inside Ivo, I'm guide along. I. That was in the Balkans guy to Loni. Finally today, we looked to Canada where the much maligned terrier premier, Doug Ford took the city of Toronto by surprise recently by now knowing the provinces plan to allow tall buildings immoral areas of the city the plan to expand areas where high-rises are allowed as what is increasing the height limit of buildings in these areas has been condemned by number of city. Counters declaring the move as an act of disrespect an outright contempt for the city of Toronto. And Torontonians unexposed kovic is the architecture critic of the globe and mail and co editor of the new book house, divided. He joined Monaco's Toronto bureau. Chief Thomas Lewis to explain the proposed changes and what they will mean for the people living in the city. What's happened in the last week? Is that a bit of a fight is a ruptured between two levels of government land use planning the providing permissions about where building can go? Form. It should take often involves a back and forth between different levels of government and here that's between the city and the province of on -tario. What's happened? Is that the province, which has very pro business mindset and also has issues with the city itself has stepped into the details of the city's planning process and decided that a lot more building larger building should be allowed in some particular places for those who may have come to Toronto set up shop here, say the pasta, ten years, this has become the start of that time city of very tall glass towers that, you know, many people criticized for lacking sense of place, giving a sense that you could basically be anywhere, not really reflecting the character of the city, a tool, it seems to me that developers and plunder seem to be kind of getting more imaginative more thoughtful in the developments happening in parts of the city. This. Rosal seems like it'd be a reversal back to this slightly anonymous huge toll skyscraper situation for city like Toronto. That is growing arguably at his foster straight for some time, what's your sort of response to that? Is that a fair analysis to say a layperson coming to Toronto and, and seeing built environment at a time when it's changing quickly I think, in many ways, it is. But it also misses some important context. Visitors to the city often are in the downtown and are particularly in the western half of the downtown core, which has been prosperous for three generations, and which right now is seeing a ton of growth and that's the land of, of these new glass, high rises as well as new office towers where the city seems to be going through this incredible boom, and to some degree it is. But at the same time, most of Toronto, which is quite a large city geographically is made up of houses or buildings that are no taller than three stories. And in fact, has been very little growth in most of the city. As a matter of fact as. Significant portion of the city has been losing people over the last generation. So you really have this bifurcated situation where you have intense growth in a few pockets that seem very visible and present this idea of city, that is really changing a dramatic way. But us where you have stagnation, which I think, creates a lot of problems. And is that the issue that the provincial authorities therefore by making this move by posing to lift the company? How tall buildings can be that they're responding to, or as you mentioned earlier, pro business for them bigger is better and more lucrative. What's play from the motives here? I think it's all of the above development industry has gotten what it wanted in large part in the last couple of weeks. And that's certainly not all positive. Some of the things that have changed in this most recent back and forth involve things like taking the city's ability to tax effectively, to charge for things to make space for wider sidewalks. For instance, you know, some of these things have been paid for by development rather than out of taxes. And I don't think that all of that sort of change is necessarily positive. So there is some back and forth. On the other hand, these intense pockets of growth, two of them have been targeted by these changes made by the province, the downtown, and then in area that's known as midtown under the intersection of the streets, young Eglington in both cases, these are areas that have long had dense development have long had high-rise buildings of different kinds. And so, I think what's important to understand. Is that what the provinces doing is not dramatically changing the shape of the plan? It's just sort of making it a little bit less subtle. It's making a little bit less controlled the politics of that are partly question being pro business, and it's partly a question of, I think, making some sensible pushback against political pressures from neighbors who live in houses, who have been resisting Rothe, even in these areas in terms of building up their four in this case, specifically is not launch -ly a good thing or is that. The reason to be concerned that throwing buildings up just for whatever political reason the moment might mean long-term for city like Toronto. It's complicated land. Use planning is subtle and it's many ways it's highly subjective process. It's more of an art than it is a science and city planners here will tell you that there are certain things like transitions. For instance, the idea that of toll buildings shouldn't be next to a house, but there should be a mid sized building between there are questions about shadowing, and what planners call overlook and they care a lot about these things that they can measure. And I think in a lot of ways those somewhat technical kinds of analysis. It's a bit of a pseudoscience that doesn't mean those particular concerns are always invalid, but I think they tend to be exaggerated. And I think there tends to be a lot of difference. Given to the desires of people who live in houses, not to be affected in any way by the presence of new neighbors, and that to me is problematic. You have corrected a new book that prescribed some sort of novel ideas, I think you describing to me earlier gives a quick sense of some of those proposals of, it's not too much of a spoiler car. Does the city like Toronto if you were the head of the provincial government of the mayor of the city head of its planning department? How would you try bridge the gaps between those old concerns from say communities have been here for longtime to those who are concerned about the presence of a huge tile, that maybe sticks out from what the landscape looks like what kind of thing should run to be experimenting with well, the subtitle of the book that I number of other local, people have just put together, the subtitle is how the missing middle can solve Toronto's affordability crisis. So the city is a housing crisis. It's experiencing rapid population growth in the city and in the region, and housing in many ways is not adequate to the population that we have today, and there are a number of really surprising facts that start to emerge when you explore the subject, one of them is that in the city of Toronto alone, which has an area of about six hundred square kilometers, there, two hundred square kilometers of land area, which is larger than the end of Manhattan, which is owned for nothing but did. Attached single family houses. It's only recently become legal, even to put what's called a secondary suite or a basement apartment there. So you have vast swath of the city, which are postwar suburbs, essentially, where nothing but detached houses are allowed and that's what we have in those areas, you have smaller, and smaller households occupying houses, that are increasingly too big for them. And you have the construction of new very large homes for people who are choosing to live there. And there's a great reserve in other words of land. There's a great reserve of potential development sites in places that have all of the amenities that people want that have parks that have schools that, in many cases have access to transit, and that great reserve of land, which those of us in the book are calling the yellow belt in reference to its color on planning maps. I think could contain a lot of the city's growth, I think we could make room for hundreds of thousands. More people simply by adding new buildings at a more modest scale away. Allowing buildings at a more modest scale to built throughout this area's and in the process, give new life to those neighborhoods under the final thought that for if that would be as dream scenario, how confident are you that as this political spat, which it is at the moment, sort of rose on the mayor of Toronto K married to believe, against these proposals by the provincial leadership? How do you see it playing out? What do you think the upshot of all of this will be in, in real terms? Right now. You have as I've said, a very pro business government giving the existing development industry what they want. And I again, I don't think that's all bad. But I think it would be more desirable is to allow more people to participate in building the city to allow individual homeowners to allow smaller entre, printers to allow people who want to do things like creating social housing affectively, or creating co-ops different models, financial and physical of living together. I think it would be better to allow them to do their thing. I'm not confident that, you know, the pro business. Governing party is going to make that happen. But I think it makes a lot of sense for a lot of people to allow citizens of the city to create their own ways of living, and to become involved in building the city physically. And I think eventually, we're going to get to the point where that seemingly obvious truth becomes undeniable, and eventually, we, we get some change. I don't think it'll happen this year. Unfortunately, that was Alex Boese kovic, the architecture critic for the globe and mail and co editor of the new book house divided published by coach house books is out now. This edition of the, the show was produced by culture, Abella an edited by David Stevens, and play, you out of this episode of the here's computer. Magic with clouds. Thank you for listening city lovers. Why not take a wonder into the wonderful world of Monaco with an annual print subscription you'll receive ten issues of the magazine year, plus are seasonal specials the forecast, and the escapist subscribers to one year, plus and premium package is also receive our new annual the, Monaco, drinking and dining directory. And that's not all age of our plans comes with a free tote bag to live it to your door. We invite all fans of the subscribed today and receive a special ten percent discount on any of our year long, subscriptions. Simply visit Monica dot com forward slash Irv. Est that's never been a better time to sign up, Monaco, keeping an eye and an air on the wall.
The Bequests Manager
"And. Have you thought about who will get your money when you die? Will you leave it all to your family? And if not what else could you do with it. Death and wills are not things that most restrictions like to think or talk about only around half the population has made a will. But for Dr Jennifer, Henry, death and money are top of mind every day. Hi, MRs Jefferson. Jennifer Henry calling from the university of mobile. How are you? She's a bequest monitor at the university of Melbourne and works with people who want to leave something to the university in. There will often they want to fund scholarships for students or research. These people come to us ready to talk about their own impending death, and there are money. So the bequest manages of the world need to be comfortable talking about those things straight away. We can't be the list comfortable person in that conversation. So it's very interesting can be very confronting. They're offering tease in conversations on how do you feel being party to that level of intimacy because it isn't a Missy talking about these things at is. It's an amazing honor. It's really interesting in very sacred space to be in. And I think all people at work in the bequest space take on that sacred oath and take it for the responsibility and the on that it really is bequests or gifts in wills have long been an important source of income for universities. Some people leave a few hundred dollars others leave millions at Melbourne gifts in wills have paid for everything from scholarships for students from rural areas to new buildings to scientific equipment even musical instruments as well as research projects across every discipline and just as there is no typical bequest. There's no typical bequest her and we have such a range of people from the thirties to people over one hundred we have same sex couples. We have childless couples we have people with many children, I have one man with eight children, and he says he doesn't have much money. But he's treating the university, though, we I his ninth child and h getting equal of his estate, which is gorgeous. I. Nice to see Jennifer's job takes her all over, Victoria. And sometimes further afield meeting people who are leaving a gift in their will to the university. One of those Dale who with his partner is funding scholarship for students from disadvantaged backgrounds. My brother passed away about a year and a half two years ago now, and my will originally had my partner, I getting everything. And then my brother was the second benificiary. But obviously since he's passed on and bicycling had to raise him. I will we both had discussions about what we would change our wills to. And we went from there Dale is only in his thirties. And he knows he's unusual implanting. So far ahead. Do feel strange that we've we've sort of done this at such a young age because it's forecasting forty fifty possibly sixty years before the pass on having said that I feel like it's an opportunity for us to build up a niceness dig for the university to. Offer to students and to carry that on and carry a legacy on I guess through the scholarship in some ways, it gives you a warm feeling inside that I've done that that we've done that. Jennifer didn't sit out to work in this field. She started as a scientist with a PHD in plant molecular biology from Melbourne I did realize about two weeks into my PHD that if I stayed in plant science research, I would end up being like my supervisor which was stuck in an office writing grant applications, but I wasn't sure what else I wanted to do until I realized that I always took any opportunity to leave the leban- talk about science to other people in the last few weeks of her studies, Jennifer begun working in scientific publishing in millburn a decade later, she moved to New York for a job with one of the world's leading scientific publishers and then moved to a not for profit organization. That's where her interest in fundraising started. And that eventually led her. Back to her old university and her current rule, my career certainly taken a fusing zags. But I think there's a very different common. Thread of always felt that I've got one foot in science one of the best things about her job is that she still gets to hang out with scientists marching them with potential donors who are interested in leaving money to research. I studied the history of life to understand how things are related, and and kind of why they look the way they do Kristie hip sleep isn't Evelyn re biologist who works between the university and millburn museum. She's been working on a project that only became possible because of bequest thanks to a gift from the estate of Michael John Marburger Dotto she's been able to use x Ray computer, tomography techniques, similar to medical C T scans to look inside museum specimens and create three d models of them. She's put all these models on a website for anyone to see anyone all around the world can come and interact. With those specimens and see the inside of different animals, and it might also inspire people to get into that kind of research or to pursue biological sciences. One of the star attractions on the website is a model of young Tasmanian tiger or Thilo seen. The species was declared extinct in one thousand nine hundred eighty six anyone in the world. Can now look at a tiny baby of an extinct animal and actually see it skeleton in threes. So I think that's really cool and people have been quite excited to to see something. So rare not everyone who's planning to leave bequest. Let's the university knew in advance in fact, around half the income the university receives each year and bequests is unexpected queered possible though, Jennifer likes to connect donors with eighty they're keen to support while they're still alive a large number of bequests that we have these days of scholarship support where people have decided to leave a quiz. List? We do try and expose them to students who currently on scholarships funded by previous bequests, just so they get an inkling of what type of student. They gift will one day support. And it's really heartening to see the students and the donors come together. And this often again, quite teary moments and people are so happy for the life changing paternity that these donors have enabled. And that's the thing. Yes. Jennifer talks to her clients about death. But really these conversations are about life. I had a woman few weeks ago whose mother died of breast cancer. So she wanted to set up a scholarship for medical students. So when if she spoke to me her mother was alive in the room and will live on whenever a student gets the scholarship. So it was a way bringing joy back into her life and feeling like her mother's life and legacy had been extended in case, you're wondering Jennifer's decided to leave a proportion of her only state to research at the university of Melbourne and. Other causes. She believes in. Yeah. My kid's young teenagers sign on that. They will have more than enough to get them through to eighteen. And after that, we would certainly lead them something banal everything think we've enjoyed Petrova a cake on a wide board that we have in our kitchen. We drew the cake on the whiteboard said you will get all of this. But that's enough. You of what's lift daddy. An I choosing to leave it to causes that we think are important dogs and trees in education. You've been listening to the three o' one podcast written presented and produced by me bowel McFarland music by forty Clark. Chris Hudson was our audio engineer if you enjoy listening to this visit Uni mail dot EDU dot AU forward slash three or one for more stories copyright 2018. The university of Melbourne.
Connected | Chapter 4
"This podcast is intended for mature audiences listener. Discretion is advised mm-hmm Ten twenty nine Peachtree road today. It's dance club called ravine with an exterior painted black black. It's across the street from lowes hotel in. The building looks out of place with all the shiny new buildings popping UP IN MIDTOWN ATLANTA. I know this because I walked walked right by ten twenty nine peachtree every day my way into the office yet. It didn't realize the significance of the place until I started deeper into this case. Now I look over at at the parking lot every day always thinking about that night. Back in September of Nineteen seventy-three it was called the Strip where the pimps drug pushers and prostitutes suits hung out. It was also the location of show. Business Call venevision. Big Bill. Scarborough had waited for his friend. Jimmy Maze that hot summer night may still had a few customers. Viewing his peeps so big. Bill grabbed a slice across the street. Of Franco's molly waited beats around midnight. Jimmy and big bill walk together to the parking lot. This was going to be some sort of easy racket man. This ain't I'm not easy record. This is a hustle. You know what I'm saying. He did with them saying those consequences to everything we do it like if you swim with the sharks you'll bound to get a bit. You know what I'm saying Jack I could dig it bad. I can dig it for. I can dig it and said good night. Well listen. I'm GonNa go catch me some shit. I'll see you tomorrow. Okay all right now see you tomorrow. Jimmy's Ford Econoline van was just a few spots away from big bills. It was a hot steam night so they both roll down their windows. Jimmy cranked up his van. Bill said the explosion sounded like a Roman candle then then another one. It must've been the gas tank exploded. Police police and fire arrived quickly and big bill pieces all around him of the van and of his friend. Bill Bill Scarborough big bill. He's called. He's worked for thieves and for Jimmy as he was a few feet away when mays was blown up in his van. He said there were pieces. All all around me. Jimmy Maze was an electronics expert. Learning his trade trade in the Air Force. He had worked peepshow machines for thesis but quit in August of nineteen seventy and a year and a half later went into business himself. Roger Dean underhill was part. Owner of cinematics divas business making the peep shows and he needed help so we hired Jim. As on the side giving as a percentage of what he made every month underhill as with machines on the west side the colored part of town. He said he thought it was a chance to control mates at first just. He didn't tell thieves he hired maze. But eventually he told them about it said don't do it but underhill did it. Anyway because mays worked hard besides Roger was the one putting up the money there was some bad blood between fever. SOMMES when thieves will get a new car. Maze wanted one same with a new suit. Things went south when thieves brought in outside people taking away half of underhill's ownership and cinematics and giving him nothing in return. Roger was not only getting in half of what he used to get each month. And so two was Jimmy Maze. Underhill set Davis ordered as killed in December of nineteen seventy two. It was Davis's home at a company. Christmas party underhill said Mazen. Thieves hated each other. Davis had squeezed as out of a business deal and maize had gone out on his own in as a competitor. Mazel go into a rage in spittal withdrew out of his mouth and down his chin. Underhill said he had seen it with his own eyes. He told the better watch himself self. He had heard as say he was going to take a browning nine millimeter and put it in his chest and pull it fourteen times was uneasy about maze. Any wanted underhill. I'll take care of him so underhill and another bill. Bill Mahar started keeping watch on as down at ten twenty. Nine peachtree Davis gave Dave underhill a gun. A five shots with Western special. One rainy night underhill went there just before closing time and caught maize on the back stairs. underhill Lil pull the hammer back on the gun. But just couldn't shoot him. He said he was just not built that way. underhill claim thieves. Thought Maze would kill him. If Divas didn't didn't kill as I under says he tried to shoot as himself but he couldn't bring himself to do it so he got another thieves associate just one month earlier. Thieves had landed in the hospital struggling with his injuries from the motorcycle accident and things were dire and thieves had been close to death still stuck in his hospital. Bed Divas now realized. He had the perfect alibi if he was going to have. As kill since the Christmas party in Nineteen Seventy-two underhill had many opportunities to take care of maize. But he told Davis he couldn't do it. Divas grew grew impatient and told them to have Mahar finish the job instead. Thieves frequently talked of murdering another competitor. Jimmy Maze and that when thieves was in an Atlanta Hospital Hospital after a motorcycle accident in Nineteen seventy-three he gave Walters thirty five hundred dollars. The money was for Roger Underhill to buy supplies. The next day Jimmy mays was blown up in his van and underhill presented thieves with a piece of bone. He was planning to turn into a paperweight. That's right a paperweight made out of Jimmy. Jimmy Maze Bone and skin. underhill went to the scene of the bombing that next morning. He found the diamond studded wristwatch in the parking lot that he had bought offer maze. The watch was a reward for Jimmy working so hard. He found a piece of bone about the size of would matchstick langner fence and a gold tiger pin and skin. Joanne Davis was with her husband at the hospital. She said underhill came in and was talking about Jimmy being killed and he seemed pleased by it but she thought was strange. He had an envelope he was trying to show them with pieces of skinny at gotten off the wall. It was Jimmy Maze Joann. Joanna was startled and shot. She thought it was weird. This was just the beginning of Rough Times that Mike Davis found himself. Right in the middle love built some pit studios on Simpson Street but he wanted more parking any needed to get rid of three abandoned houses to make room for the lot one on Simpson Street in Atlanta thieves wanted a house. There burned down to collect insurance money. Detour two of the houses down and sent a team including underhill to burn down the remaining house. Then he filed a false claim to get the insurance money like like the arson fire in Louisville. This one didn't go great. Either Davis was irritated. Calling it a Shitty job. But that wasn't the end of the fire setting. I think the other was in Santa Fe. North Carolina Bookstore underhill said TVs wanted and ordered it destroyed because it was competition. Vivas already owned adult bookstore. A half-mile away a month before the fire fevers told him in womack the owner of the business there was only room for one bookstore Fayetteville and that womack should either sell out or close down down. Womack refused fevers. Wanted everyone to know he was the king of his territory but he was became more and more concerned about being sent off to prison a reality that included him being away from his family. A November third one thousand nine hundred ninety four. The Atlanta Constitution published the feature the abdication of a pornography king in the always stick version of their Sunday Sunday newspaper. It's all their overhead shots of the thesis state. The family posing for a shot on the bridge in the backyard exclusive views inside the elegance and that was lionsgate but something was different that day diva sat on a couch in his Dan just two days removed from yet another operation from the motorcycle. Recycle accident this time. It was attendant transplant. He was bitter about the fact that the city never really wanted the estate as a school for gifted children he really never did expect. The city would wanNA gift from a pornographer. He was also better about ever. Having to face obscenity charges in the first place he said the government has no no right to tell anyone what he can or cannot read. The government wanted him gone to have him sent to prison on obscenity charges. Haka they send this man. Dan Injured so terribly to prison. The government said they could and they kept pushing and in a highly unusual move was had some with him that day during the interview his name was Jeff. Jeff Stevens assistant an our guy working on his music. Business Lee had a great reputation in the business and he worked with Sammy. Johns the biggest artist on Davis's label Lee spoke up. They filleted him like like a fish in reference to his operations. It also got weird during the interview. Thieves said he believed he had been in the recording business. Maybe in a past life life. It's strange he said. But I know for instance that have been in the recording business before I've taken to it well with no background or training in the field asked Jeff Lee. I'm not the producer he is but I have an ear for. What's the exactly right sound? I man the mixer and the recording sessions and I do it well and Lee said his boss was an old pro own that Friday just five days after the publication of the Article Jeff Lee was found dead in his home. Two shots to the head from a small caliber pistol. Iverson is lawyer showed up at the scene. While detectives detectives looked for clues. Iverson lease girlfriend. Were both question but no charges were filed. What was the motive for this murder? And why did it happen just five days. After the Big Sunday story in the newspaper authorities took another suspect into custody. One that was connected at the so-called dixie Mafia but the story in the the investigation quickly faded into the background. No one knew for sure what was going on but Sammy. Johns was devastated that his friend and producer was gone. John's wrote a song about his friend. On Jeffrey he called IT Jefferson Lee. And it's only ever been heard as an unreleased demo until now and the people who will they waiting and his friend go cry. They I need you and me Jeff. The what a team. What a winning combination you a road? My songs with renewed. Finish them with bringing and then we'd thome Optimistic contemplation now without a song home but the memory Will help me we get and all this craziness felt like it was straight out of a mob movie. The territorial disputes the cold blooded killings the henchman inch men the vengeance and revenge. The First Godfather movie came out in Nineteen seventy-two a cultural sensation. That changed everything. We thought we knew about mobsters was diva simply acting like a gangster like some sort of mob boss or was there a deeper connection with organized crime. The Atlanta Police Department Department of the same exact suspicions in one thousand nine hundred ninety four. The intelligence division published a secret forty five page report entitled Organized Crime Control All Pornography. The report is full of charts showing FIVAS control of ten porn firms and eleven legitimate businesses including his record companies in his ownership of three hundred fifty acres at the current site of Epcot Center in Orlando Atlanta. Police overheard a nineteen sixty eight conversation member station between Divas and Robert Di Di Bernardo at a Las Vegas Porn Convention was bragging about owning ninety percent of the sex film vending machines in the United States DB said the thieves. Don't forget Mike. You manage the machines. The family is in charge. Larry Ravine and others knew who. DB Be was the Gambino's in New York City that area of their illicit businesses was run by a guy by the name of Nicole. I'm Debbie and he was in charge of all of porno and it's interesting because everybody in the the mafia looked down on him because he was the guy that was in charge of Porno. I I mean they take the money but they were very judgmental of of people so. Dv and he was a nice guy he was some of these guys are like you know regular people and you don't figure bigger for Mafia people and that's the way Devi was my father's name. Was Martin Jol Hostess and he was bigger than life when he walked into a room. Everybody we knew that Marty was there. He was the life of the Party and he was also a mean son of a bitch when nobody was around he was very smart. He is very ballsy. He was dangerous and violent. But it was my. This is Ramallah Otas like Tony Thieves. She grew up in the shadow of her father and his adult adult entertainment empire. Mario was known as the King of the peeps in Times Square. Their family many run INS with the mob when Ramona and her siblings WCHS grow up in the nineteen seventies. This was right in the beginning. I was twelve and my brother was six and he doesn't income off from school on time and as we're starting to get my mother's starting to get a whatever a little worried. He walks into the house with ice cream all over him and and a note with. We're thinking Avia Marty. My mother freaked and my father's like take it easy. I know these guys Marty. What's going on what's happening? Because I don't know that she knew a lot of stuff that was going on this was in the beginning and then about six months later. I'm walking to school. I'm just leaving Lawrence Bay Park crossing using the street and I'm walking and all of a sudden I feel something to my right and there's a black limo and you know there's a driver and the door is open this the two men in black suits with with with the baby doll and they're shoving the baby doll out towards me. Ramallah your mother said to come pick you up she. It didn't I'm over. Recent isn't even up. She told you to pick me up and I looked at him and I said and I don't play with baby aby doll. I was so mad at him. I don't know why I wasn't nervous. I was not one iota nervous. I was pissed off that he thought I played with baby dolls. Don't even think doc that I'm GONNA come in that car with you. Nobody told you to pick me up. And I just didn't say another word and just kept walking and walking walking and they went away. I never told my parents parts because I knew my mother was so frightened about what happened with my brother. I don't WanNa scare her then when I went to Cam. They sent me to fat camp as I was going going into. It was like a dorm. I see a man in a suit like the men in the Limo and he looks me straight straighten the I and I knew and I started to scream and I fainted. Well they had until my parents then because of course but fly parents it okay. Over early on Mardi hotels parked parked himself right in the heart of a see times square making his name. Along the way. Yeah my father started off inventing the peepshow taking can pop out of the peepshow and putting in girls that undress down to their underwear and then he started making films and then He. He started buying bookstores than he had massage parlors. Then he started a film company making the films so he had quite a lot going on back then. Larry Ravine was also keenly aware of the transformation of Times Square in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. Well Times Square. Historically was the center of New York City and eventually became the center center of the Commercial World Literally Times Square it had the glory and it had the gloom and it had to you know down and out it had to grit it and the Glitz but Martin went into the live sex shows that became a big thing. A lot of the X ray talent was working the sexual to everything. I had read indicated that the mob had a huge influence. I'm pornography how was marty hostess able to survive with The New York crime families so tied into the pornography. The business when my father had his jukebox route. The mall was very involved in that too so there was a place where there was a jukebox. And somebody else. Let's move jukebox. All I know is it. My father came back and he was like what and unplug that person's jukebox and puts his jukebox. They're back and forth with back and forth. My father throws the jukebox down the stairs. And it's Joe Colombo's Jukebox and my father had no idea about a joke lumber onboard whatever. He's like screw. This Joe Colombo was the boss of the Colombo crime family one of the five families of La Cosa Nostra in New York City. He was not someone to be messed with. So you're driving down. The Belt Parkway and bullet goes through so my father has a sit down now this guy and he was like holy smokes. I had no idea who you were. You were some little wise guy so my father says he laughed. He says boy you palsy. I'm getting the spot. My father's like take the spot. Take the spot and I think Joe gave him one hundred bucks or something like that now. So that's my father's first Ronin and I remember he used come home and he used to pace back and forth. They're going to have to kill me before many. They're going to have to kill me before I give them die. That's what he used to say. Mardi hotels couldn't avoid a sit down with some of the mob figures in the area though so my father had it's attorney attorney says look not giving you a dime because they didn't want him to pay him. I can you a dime. What I will do is? I'll teach you how to run porn. I'll teach you how to open a store. You buy your machines from me. You buy your films from me. You get your toys for me and I will help you build your porn business. That's what he did and I asked my brother about this. Eagles Ramallah Alex and I were in a restaurant once and there was one of the wise guys there or whatever we were talking to him and they said you have no idea how much your father is respected. Because he wouldn't give in and he found a way around bounded. Marty how does tried to keep the mob out of his business for as long as he could now when he first started getting successful with his kid came home with a note pinned to his coat. That said you shouldn't let your kid wander around by himself and that was the mafia's way of saying you you know we won't are cut and that's how they do business you know. They forced their way into whatever business they were interested in but threats the Mardi He had resisted resisted it for a long time but when his kid came home you know with that note on him. He knew it was time for that. He had to pay up and he he paid up like everybody else. You know because this I was perfect mafia stuff even though her father continued to walk a tightrope with both law enforcement and the mob Ramallah finally understood why he kept going. Get my father out of jail so we go to pick him up sitting in the back. My father gets in the car. And I'm like dad it to you so smart daddy you so smart you could do anything. Why are you doing this? And he turns around he said. Ramon I make twenty thousand dollars a week and I'm doing it for my family. But when I heard he makes twenty thousand dollars a week in nineteen eighteen. He's leaving this in nineteen seventy two. The New York Daily News published a five part. Expose on hold us. This was described as the king of Porno a boss of twelve corporation conglomerate. NYPD's public morals division released. Their own diagram was really going on. The chart. Had Joseph Colombo sitting at the top and hold us. was there too. I was convinced that the territories of the adult peep show business. These were very much like the territories of the Mafia that the bosses didn't wouldn't work together as dug deeper. I discovered that the New York operation that thieves sender hillhead partner with was run by none other than Martin hosts and a man named Max Golden Davison hostess had them working together. I also discovered that. Net Belan Ellen had been selling machines to hold us and just like the two. Had disagreements hold us told bail and he was coming to Louisville with golden to settle a dispute Baylon anticipating the meeting hit a tape recorder in the room and bailing threaten app his wife and his kids at one point bail and even thought it might have been hosts noticed that tried to burn down his warehouse. This news of Iverson hold us. Working together. Weather was a stunner. This was the group that owns cinematics like the five crime families. The peepshow business was divided into territories. But did they work together. Gather or against each other. Mike Davis ran the south but other players laid their claim elsewhere. Reuben Sturman The Walt Disney. A porn ran his operation. Out of Cleveland Ohio. He was the biggest player but he kept a low profile. An FBI report indicated that Sturman engaged in strong arm shakedowns of other dealers distributors and suppliers particularly on the West Coast Sturman has accomplished almost total takeover for with the assistance of Robert Di Bernardo here again Sturman and DB. Were helping each other. This surprise me beside side Sturman thieves and the other bosses included. Mickey's Verano in New York in Harry mony out of Michigan. I asked Tony Feebis if he he knew any of these figures and if they worked with his father the only individual that I met up there on a couple occasions was deeper. Nardo who I later found out was a part of the Gambino Crime Family New York why was DB. There today is clear to me why he was there. He was involved with my dad and the bookstore. Business the pornography because there's no reason for him to be there a guy from New York this happens upon Atlanta serious but DB was a nice guy who gifted my brother brother a horse pollen at the time and very nice once. My Dad would do prisoners zero people coming up to that house that weren't invited fighting for family picnics and barbecues and again the McGeorge of the people that came up from the business were from the music business the legitimate side of the world. I have no evidence from what I've read in fact from what I've read. He was not involved with New York. Crime Families it's very possible the DVD Bernardo Robert Di Bernardo. They call them. DB was just a friend of his he met in the pornography business. I don't know he claims he never had anything to do with it. He did tell me frankly likely that they tried to muscle in many many times to come in with into the industry but he flat out denied he had anything to do with them. Oh yeah there are hundreds of bookstores but you know. DVD Bernardo was was killed by John Gotti so go back to why was fever symbolic D and subsequently murdered by John Gotti ready before got him as even ahead of the Gambino crime family. That's all I know about that. I know nothing other than that. Through an anonymous source I learned that the Atlanta a police department was not the only one interested in his involvement with the Mafia the FBI had been tracking thieves for years and was keenly aware of his actions and his potential potential connections with the Mafia the reports contain hundreds of pages of their findings starting back in nineteen sixty seven in one thousand nine hundred the FBI special agent. John Darko reported that thesis was looking to collect past due accounts in the San Francisco area. He employed two men attired in nineteen thirty Freddie style clothing white fedora brimmed hats with blue bands. Large Black overcoats wearing suspenders and smoking. Long Cigars Divas had had the men carry violin cases and accompany him on his collection of overdue payments. The FBI reported that allegedly received excellent results. It's in collecting his accounts that day the FBI reports are a fascinating read full of detailed held information collected from locations. All over the country. I find memos summarizing the activity of the agency some of them addressed to Mr Felt. That's that's mark felt would later be known as deep throat the secret source for Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward in the investigation into the Watergate cover up and based on the nineteen in seventy two pornographic movie of the same name back in one thousand nine hundred thousand nine. FBI special agents. We're talking to sources across the country country trying to find out if Davis was backed financially by the New York mobsters and definitely connected with La Cosa Nostra. This news was coming from the Los Angeles List Division of the FBI where thieves has west coast operation though the reports are heavily redacted. One thing is clear. DB's name is all over the report. The Gambino Crime Family demanded that twenty five percent of Davis's book and magazine business be given to Carlo. Gambino in one thousand nine hundred seventy the FBI found that DB thesis antithesis La. Man Even had plane tickets for a two week trip to Europe together visiting London Paris and Athens though. Thieves didn't like the constant flow of media articles that tried to tie him to the mob. He did enjoy telling tales of how he had his way with various. MAFIOSOS the tried to push him around he said. The media was painting a vivid picture of me. Some sort of Mafia yeah kingpin Mike. The ties to the underworld and all that Thieves received word that a Tories. Abby the right hand man Mafia had Carlo Gambino was headed back to New York from Florida and was making a stop in Atlanta. Wanted to meet with us at the airport. Zappia comes to visit. He's an Italian mobster representing one of the by families to get there now. Weather weather thesis was paying them. I have no idea supposedly he was there to reinforce that thieves had his right hand man semi my surreptitiously but enough in the open taking photographs of them to scare the Italian mobster. All Roger underhill showed up in jeans and I started taking photos of Divas Zap and the aids for both math Zappia assumed it was the FBI and quickly departed fevers. I had outsmarted the mob again. did he ever relationship with them. I don't know that he gets seed money from them. I don't know I've been around a lot of these guys. Never ever this the same way he was sixteen breaking and entering. The key to the business is doing the money is in doing. What's illegal legal? The money is not in what's legal as soon as they changed the line. You go one step further and that's what people will pay for and and the other part of it. Is We know how he enforced his business. Yeah you can't be a conventional businessman in that sort of unconventional business. First of all you had to be one of the things he would tell people he would enlist to open a bookstore with TV shows. You are going to be arrested. I mean that was this. You have to be willing to be arrested. You have to be this lot of cash profit to be made so other people are going to WanNa get into the business. You have to be tough in terms of protecting your turf. So by definition he's going to be a rugged character and you have to be willing to enforce your criminal territory might my Los Angeles days. Mickey Cohen was this way. I mean always roaming to nightclubs talk to the gossip columnists okay. What's the counterpoint to that are hoodlums who decide? There's no percentage in waving your arms and saying look at me. There's a guy public may never really know about Tony Accardo. Some a lot of people don't was the head of the Chicago mob for many years. He was actually actually likely one of the gunmen. In Valentine's Day massacre robes to head. The Chicago mob spent one day one night ride of his life in prison died living in a golf course community in Palm Springs and he never waved his arms and said look at me so this this long history of those who wave their arms and like the rags to riches scenario. Areo the horatio. Alger dotion you. Just do it on the other side of the law all those early mop four about those sorts of characters but the theme is always agree to which you need to make a show of being the big shot. He's GonNa Bring you down so this big risk to what he he wanted to do. Adam probably serves you better. A friend told Hustler magazine in nineteen seventy six at when he says he doesn't want to be known as the porno kingpin anymore. Mike really really means it all that bullshit about being a criminal and being mafia as hurt him more than he abets. He thinks of himself as a great businessman. That's his ego trip. Rip The personalities of these people were like they were out of central casting thing that I have all these years tried had to pin down or get an idea of what it was was. If you're mighty why was he so penny you say. What is this amount of money? Think that old adage came by your happiness. And it's always been my contention that that it's not the money it's the power so these guys all of them but you Verano Mike Divas Reuben. Sturman wielded a lot of power and I think the Hubris Hooper's kicked in and they saw themselves as like being untouchable Gangster houses created written and hosted by me Jason Hope and is a production of imperative entertainment. Shane Freeman is lead engineer. Here with additional editing and production support by myself Jasmine Cross and Stephen Warner audio mixing provided by resonate records recording sessions at tree sound studios Atlanta. Santa Clara Martin and Elizabeth Egan are story editors cover art and design by Trevor Eyler archival footage licensed courtesy of Brown Media Archives University of Georgia and WSB TV in Atlanta Georgia original music score by Brandon Bush Jefferson Jason Lee performed and written by Sammy Johns previously unreleased. The publisher is Act One Music Company in music licensed from Gin Music. The songs from Gangster House check out the new playlist on spotify just search gangster house some segments recorded using actors actors to recreate scenes based on the true story for more information exclusive photos or tips on this story visit Gangster House Dot com or visit us on facebook twitter and Instagram by searching gangster house. If you love the show tell a friend and leave a review have questions email us at podcast imperative entertainment dot com. Thanks for listening yeah.
El Pollo Loco goes crazy for augmented reality
"Hiring isn't easy but there is one place you can go where hiring is simple in smart that place is ziprecruiter where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates ended its try it for free at Ziprecruiter. Dot Com Slash Tech Talk Ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire talking. Today is at the dairy. I help play Loco in downtown Los Angeles on Alvarado Street. I've got Bernarda. Coca is the CEO of El Pollo Loco. He's all into augmented admitted reality and also have other tech stuff that we will hit them up with Bernard. Thank you for having us to play look. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to host you guys here. Let's start off with what you're doing. You GotTa snapchat promotion filters murals. Tell everybody exactly what it is sure. So what we noticed was that sixty percent of La's murals murals painted by Latino Chicano artists were disappearing. They were disappearing due to gentrification. They were disappeared appear because you know just new buildings were going up and we wanted to not lose that part of La Culture apart La Culture that is so critical to that community because not only they painted by Hispanic artists but they often tend to carry with them Hispanic themes that are important to that community so what we decided to do was we decided decided to resuscitate and revive five specific murals and we worked with the LA mural conservancy to pick these five murals painted by two very very famous Hispanic Murless Mr Juan Hector Ponce and Mr Hector Heck's reels and we are now bringing their their murals back to life these murals that have disappeared but are now going to come back to life using a snap chat it's a it's a snapchat Lens. There were Lens and you're going to be able to go around the city and as long as you've got snapchat able to hold your phone up to have have these murals magically come back to life at five different locations around Los Angeles and the snapchat audience is that the local on answers answers that what you thought I mean we appeal to a wide array of of young and old. We're hoping for the young. This is something that comes second nature. Hr to them. We're hoping perhaps for a slightly older audience the desire to want to see this artwork. Come back to life will compel them to want to try out. Perhaps the snapchat Lens for the first time but I think the really cool thing is whether they decide to look at it virtually through through snapchat what they will eventually be able to see through L. Poile. Loco is the the fact that we are committed to bringing back these murals permanently so we are sitting at a restaurant location right now where we will actually take one of the famed pieces of artwork work from one of these murless that I mentioned Mr One Hector Ponce and make it come back to life on the side of our building permanently. He'll be working with his son to repaint that mural on the side of the area. I I'll play loco and that's just the start we want offer up multiple El Pollo Loco locations in Los Angeles to become the new canvases for these these murals for the city. Luckily was in six or seven states crack up Oil Co.. Currently operates in six states. We have almost five hundred restaurants and grow so we can see. Murals in Utah Louisiana in Arizona and some of the other places where you're at well. I don't know if they'll be everywhere. you know mural culture is certainly integral to. La La the La Life but I think we'll take a hard look at what is relevant to different communities certainly communities where our high. I spent in terms of things that are important to our customers and see what makes sense other tax. One thing I keep hearing is that all mind delivery is just getting bigger and bigger vigor a talked to one restaurant. They said it was twenty five percent of sales. How's it working with you. Yes so online delivery is very very big and growing we have partnerships with not only door dash but posts mates ubereats and hopefully in a few months. We'll probably be looking to expand that to a partnership with grub hub as well. delivery is just the ever-growing rolling part of our business because consumers are demanding that kind of convenience on nowadays summer saying th I read the whole thing about ghost restaurants and that people won't even go in any more they'll we'll just this little storefronts with kitchens delivery people come in and dash everything away. What do you think about that well. You know what's really interesting about us. is that most restaurants for instance will do say quick service restaurants. The TACO bells world etc.. They'll do seventy percent of their business. Through the drive through we do about forty percent of our business doesn't suit drive through thirty percent dine in thirty percents to go the reason why our drive drive through numbers are lower than the competitions and are are to go numbers are higher is because our sauces which we make from scratch every single morning had become. We've got such a fanatical group of customers who love our salsa salsa so much that they wanna come into the restaurant themselves load up on as much of it as they as they would like and take it home so the magical a part of our businesses sure. There's a group of customers always want to take our products off premise but there are a lot of people who want dine in because we offer our fresh else's for free every morning with or everyday with your meal. We started talking about murals. Let's hand on Urals. We met we met this afternoon in front of a blank wall in Los Angeles on Lake Street which used to have a wonderful mural and then we we looked at the APP on snapchat and we watched it. Come back to life. Have you thought about hiring a painter does put that mural backup well. The tough thing about that is you you know the neighborhood's changed and the store fronts that have been a lot of these locations have changed so putting those murals backup isn't as always as easy as it sounds which is why we're so committed to finding new homes for them where we can and using our storefronts as these new canvases for these murals so we're going to actually be able to send people bowl to a URL lost murals La Dot com and they're going to be able to go there to not only get the terrific story behind these murals. There will actually be a documentary that we are filming behind about these artists but they'll actually be able to go and learn where all these murals are coming back to be seen by the community lost murals. L. A. DOT COM BERNARDI COCA CEO of L. Pillow talking to us today from the very first the logo on Alvarado Street. Thank you so much. There's a lot of fun. It was a real pleasure. Thank you for having me. I'm easy. I'm on twitter at Jefferson Graham. You've been listening to talking tech. Thanks everyone for listening. Subscribe to the show. Wherever you listen to online audio I'll be back tomorrow with another quick hit from the world attack hiring it can be a slow process cafe tour. Zeo Dylan Moskowitz needed to hire a director of coffee for his organic coffee company but was having trouble finding qualified applicants so so he switched to Ziprecruiter ziprecruiter technology finds people with the right experience and invites them to apply to your job. Dylan posted his job on Ziprecruiter and was impressed impressed by how quickly he had qualified candidates apply and in just a few days he found his new director of coffee with results like that. It's no wonder four out of five employers employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a qualified candidate within the first day see why Ziprecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes. Try Ziprecruiter for for free at our web address. 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Why Your Company Is Trailing in the Digital Race
"You're listening to the Czech six podcast. Brought to you by editors from across the nation. Week network listeners now have access to special subscription offers including thirty percent of Aviation Week and space technology, go to podcast dot Aviation Week dot com to learn more. Hello. And welcome to aviation week's check six with Accenture. I'm Michael Bruno senior business editor at Aviation Week. In your host for this edition of our regular podcasts on major issues facing the global aerospace and defense sector, I'm joined by John Schmidt, managing director and the global aerospace and defense lead at center and Chris Tropico, managing director of AMD. Also, am I could see again good to be here. Michael today. We're going to discuss the latest results from Accenture as annual technology vision report for the space and defence sector. Chris. Would you help explain what the technology vision report is and how it gets carried out? This will help frame some of the results we talk about little later on. Absolutely. So the technology vision report is not something that's done just for aerospace and defense, we do that across all industry sectors. We've been doing this for well over dozen years now, I don't exactly know in the first inception of was but. It's something that we follow trends over time. And we try not to look at just where we are today. But we're we're headed in the future and apply that to the industries that we work in and try to understand what practical direction differences, we can make those industries based on reports this year and for a number of years prior. We've actually looked at it by industry, and we've talked to about six thousand executives across all those industries. I believe about one hundred thirteen or from aerospace and defense, they come from a number of different countries large number of difference, aerospace, and defense companies and most of them are at the C level. And we ask them questions about what they see as important bridging technologies and the impact is going to have in the industry. To fill out the frame, John. Can you give a brief description of the underlying market forces powering the whole aerospace and defense sector right now. I'm looking at the front of your report. And you talk about you know, we've got great commercial traffic going on defense. Budgets are continuing to grow. I mean, you do the survey but underlying right now in the sector, how do you see things going? Well, yes, there are several things going on like, for instance, you mentioned in the commercial side of the equation. You got the creasing demand hemming for air traffic. I think one of the statistics that we throw around a lot of people do eighty percent of the people in Asia yet to actually step on crapton fly, and that's going to increase the number of people flying over the next decade. Really? If you look at air traffic there and increasing demand is of course, leading to his large order book. So we talk about many times on these podcasts and those order books in the desire to get those aircraft out sooner is pushing, you know, the European companies to put more rate which puts. On the spy chain, which drives them to be able to do more with the same or sometimes invest in new buildings new technologies make it happen. So that's a lot of what's going commercial alongside of it is aircraft extending their life, which is putting more emphasis on aftermarket in causing growth. And we saw in the most recent earnings results coming out that that looks like it's having some positive experts of the companies that are acting that Moreau space on the defense is little bit different. To mean. It's continuation of theme in a way of the instabilities that we see in certain geographies is causing investments in defense hardware. If you will that is also the retirements of platforms, which is driving a new hardware acquisitions, and then there is comes the the big investments being made certain countries like India with its hundred ten fighter by Australia billion indigenous maritime defence industry, that's really driving things in space expression, the new frontier, right, right? Where there's tremendous number things. Go ahead from commercial space with the space genuine commercial. L'espace by the way is just as about and in. It's it's in exciting place to be going to seen exciting space. But then everybody listening with really probably disappointed that right? So so in space, we see the generation there. And there's the new business models in kind of new ways of competing that are coming into our industry. You know, it started really space SpaceX Rian how we can use reusable rockets in something brand new getting launch cost out. But also sing it in other parts of industry, for instance, you know, the defense programs, you know, recently one where there is an emphasis not just on the first acquisition by the U S military. But also what the life cycle of that person would be implanting in all ready for international sales and potentially services tail on that. So that's a new way of thinking about how to compete. I think we're considered consistency that evolution. And all those things are underlying what's going on at how technology comes to play both within the companies in how they execute their business and within the products how the products perform there. And how they interact with other products as they perform the mission. So thank you for that let let's dive now a little deeper into the tech vision. Twenty nineteen report the world of aerospace and defense right now is focused on a couple of headline grabbing issues on suggesting the seven three seven max issues that are going on and potentially seven hundred and fifty billion dollar defence budget request in those are the kinds of things that occupy my day today job as a reporter in the headlines we deal with but in the background just beneath these headlines is quite possibly the biggest transformation to hit the Andy sector since maybe the jet or the rocket age emerged, and that's the digitalization of industry in the tap, meaning underneath both in the products and services that these companies offer, but also the companies themselves and their customer. Your report says digital is at the intersection of the value chain underpinning everything from designed to pass. Singer experience. What do you mean by this? And what did your survey find while we take for step on that? And you know, we kind of break this down and try and make it somewhat simple. Silly say that value chain, right? We start with the passenger pilot experience. And we look at you know, impacted digital space in one of the examples, we talk about is the work. We're doing with Japan Airlines now in trying to bring AI into the customer experience as you go to check in using the check in terminals in that AI engine helping kind of anticipation what the individual travellers needs are questions are doubt them to the process faster in easier. So that's an impact that's happening. In the pilot passenger side, there's lots of other things we can talk about their then you look at the design side in what's happening in design into digitisation designs been going on for a long time. And then continuing now with what it means to have a digital twin in thread to that twin which leads us to doubt, rations and maintenance, and then you've got the extended enterprise itself in the supply chain how this pipeline is interacting faster. Currently today in the we'll talk about this a little bit. But some things we're finding around cyber and in the supply chain with each company in that spike chains thinking of each other in terms of their cyber security capability than the foundational elements. Right. Whether timeout cloud or mobility or analytics, a all those components of which are critical. So everyone of those elements. You know, I could talk about what's happening. And the tech vision report that we just did which comes out with five major trends there's elements of each of those second touch into that valley chain. So are you finding that the industry is embracing approaching these new technologies appropriately man, I see from your survey? It says that ninety three percent of the respondents said the pace of innovation in their organizations is increase but most something like fifty seven percent, or so I think are also reporting mixed results so far with their digital pilot efforts. Yeah. I think that's that's very accurate. So one of the things that's interesting about aerospace and defense is that, you know, historically, it's been on the cusp of developing new technologies applying new technologies when it was first founded, but there have been points in its history when it's lagged behind other industries right now were really at a point where the aerospace and defense executives are recognizing the value in commercially available software applications and capabilities and trying to figure out how to apply that most effectively to add value to their products, Sweden, their offerings in what we're seeing right now is that that value is being recognized in trying to determine where to apply. And how to get the most value out of it in this particular industry. They get it. They get they get it. But they haven't quite figured out how to apply to the most effective fashion yet or just starting to move in that direction. What tech vision is pointing out to us is that digital across all industries is recognized as various entry right now. If you wanna actually come to the table, that's what you've got to put on the table to play now beyond that. There are new technologies are coming to play such as quantum computing, which is going to extend enhancer ability to actually do the processing that you need to design build and support an aircraft. That's not there yet the aerospace and defense industry executives recognize that there is going to be value there in the future and television points clearly to that. Now, exactly what they're going to do with that in some spaces. It's very obvious things. Like artificial intelligence are already being applied in the supply chain in aerospace and defense, they're leveraging the capabilities that we've applied in other industries in order to get a better sense of their supply chain how to make it more bulletproof how to make it safer, more, secure and all. How to audit the things that are coming through the supply chain in true that they consolidate their spend appropriately there are other places where there are other industries that are ahead of aerospace and defense, and there's an opportunity to apply technologies in Andy more effectively. You know, there's there's a lot of ability in in the virtual world right now, we have a lot of visualization capabilities that Andy is starting to play around with its there. It could be applied. More broadly. It could enable workers in the space and defence industry to be more productive ineffective. So for the most part and Andy right now is starting to play catchup. There's some great technologies out there that are being applied very heavily and other industries and Andy executives we see in the survey that we've done here are ready to start to adopt those technologies into the airspace defense world. So I think I've heard you both mentioned quantum computing. AI digital design for toll reality or augmented reality. What else is there and more importantly, where do they rank either in the minds of your respondents, or where do you where does Accenture suggest they should rank in the minds of their respondents while so if you get down into the tech vision results in so's one of the main trends that we found other five was wrong dark power DA arc. You know, where the D stands for distributed ledgers, otherwise known as blockchain out, the a is really for artificial intelligence, the ours for reality or commented mixed extended virtual reality in Cuba quantum rather than in. So the survey looked at this. And what we found is at eight four percent of the respondents are already spare mounting with some of these dark technologies rights and not not all of them. But they're already experiment with stuff in certain lighting, Chris nine marketplace. We see this in spades things got mentored reality. I mean, this is no longer new or novel. I mean, these are this is something new technologies being deployed in many places for some kind of well known reasons when he come look at use cases distributed ledger. We have a few examples, and I think we've talked about him in the past where we're using primarily now in the. As a tool for mutable supply chain places where we have to be absolutely assured of what is happening in supply chain for particular product, what we haven't seen quite yet is how we were the crack that code in the aftermarket lot of folks are playing around with other ideas business models there aerospace industry association is thinking about what we're calling minimal viable ecosystem Rabou can play in blockchain environment in the supply chain. So that one's kinda still maturing. If you will it's still a very interesting topic whenever I talk to clients and quantum is maybe Chris more sand it, but to me is it's coming. It's gonna it's gonna have an impact hard to really kind of for me to envision where that impact is greatest. I think we have theory that set kind of talks to that we do in. It's part of it's around enabling the computational math that you need to do in in the engineering environment aerospace defense, but if you look at quantum and maturity of it, it's really not where the other technologies are today. But it's something that people. Clearly, see a future because of the amount of computing processing power can get out of a quantum computing environment is so much greater than traditional digital division says it should have tremendous impact right now. It's it's not there. So that's one of the least mature this capabilities on the other hand things like artificial intelligence, we see very strong uptake in that space. And there are a number of projects that we have going right now, we're taking a look at using that in the supply chain, and it's been very effective at identifying operations or opportunities to aggregate spend or potentially suppliers or not provide the same mobile quality of some of the competitors are, well, the interesting thing there, you know, in fact of the four technologies we're talking about was ranked as number one by a third of the executives who talked about. Which was surprising to me. In fact, maybe rising it's only third not even higher because of the four that is one that has got tremendous amount of current emphasis in your singing the marketplace. And if you remember in the past feast to talk about the ecosystem in how we saw ecosystem partners becoming more important and be able to execute. Against this agenda around digital. Well, that was a trend in that think the trying to sell this proven out, and you see it in the marketplace, you see it with Boeing, partnering spark cognition develop solutions, right for the future of our transport Amine in different thing for you know, big major very capable companies like Boeing to be partnering with another company to go do something in these spaces. So that trend in its special round AI. I think is going to be something that we're gonna be talking about for some time. But one of the things John brought up earlier is the fact that most aerospace defense companies are starting to focus more now on the total life cycle value of their product, suite. And we start looking at things like AI or the reality capabilities or even you spoke about blockchain earlier in the distributed ledgers that applications in just around designing building aircraft also around the total life cycle support management aircraft. The fact that you've got aircraft out in the field that need to be supported by folks that maybe don't have access to all the latest technology or the latest training, but they can augment their capabilities by using these technologies that's can be. That really adds the total cycle value that kind of goes to the human plus worker trend that you saw technically I want to dive a little bit deeper into some of this digital transformation and talk about on the ground reality because your report tries to look ahead and help decipher what is happening in the business. But before we do, I tear quick word about Accenture. With molten Feci is of experience in the aerospace and defense industry Accenture helps companies Honda's digital technologies to improve operational performance enabled competitive differentiation and drive profitable growth. To learn more. Visit Accenture dot com slash error. Okay. John, and Chris we've been talking about AI quantum computing virtual reality. These are definitely big developments that I hear about myself from executives, but I have to say that I have been to to industry conferences and just the past month where these very human executives who are some of the respondents in your survey continue to express what I would say are real reservations. Or at least some skepticism about the degree to which they should pursue some of these digital pilot efforts or experiments one executive even said don't become the science experiment for your company that was a bad career move. I know you see this a lot too. So what do you tell executives in how they should be embracing these digital technologies? One of the things that we always try to do Michael when we start looking at especially the things that are on the cusp and cutting edge is to take a look at what the value is going to be to their shareholders. And I think aerospace and defense executives are very. Good at understanding the impacts or technologies can have for their shareholders and being very intentional about which was invest in. And how they apply so yes, there is some trepidation. I think it's healthy. I think when you make investments and technologies like this. You have to understand where you think you're going to get the value out of it and actually track that you deliver the value. Now that having been said aerospace and defense is not in the cutting edge of a lot of these capabilities. They've been proven to to show success in other industries, and a lot of what we're doing is taking the table stakes for those other industries and bringing them to d and showing them how can be applied to add that you're overvalue. I think that there the thing. I would add is when we're working with Heinsohn in a space, you'd always advocate, forget the technology in shiny object. And think about the problem at hand because in assists with blockchain couple years ago. I talked to people we need to do blockchain. Let's do blockchain was timeout. Right. Blockchain is is technology that could be a solution to a problem. But let's talk a where the problems are if the promise immutable supply chain will then yes now, you know, blockchain may be an answer to that. So this science experiments that nouns again now know who you're talking to or the specifics around the quote, but I would agree with you don't wanna be the science experiment. But if you're looking at problems in this industry, we certainly have challenges right being drew. My seamless transmission of front than you need to be looking at these digital technologies. Deployment one of the thing. That is in the research that we found is at you know, the success rate has been lower than we would like to see in aggregate across the industry and another piece of research at United talked about last time around workforce in the changing dynamics workforce in almost every. Industry, but certainly ours where we have the pressures on getting enough people. We also have a desire to have more flexible, people were able to absorb change and absorb technologies faster and easier than perhaps we used to be concerned about the past because we can look forward and just see that this is going to continue to be Saint new technologies new absorption, and it's going to acquire workforce. It's a little bit more nimble and flexible than it had to be in the past. So center conducts another in-depth survey, the commercial aerospace insight report, and kind of what you were saying John about it found only thirty eight percent of ERO exects that were surveyed believed their digital investments in the past three years are actually allowing their company to truly meet target levels of manufacturing. We were talking about the skepticism that's out there in the industry. I'm curious is there any good advice to give when it comes to board room level discussions about what expectations should be in regards to our ally return on investment when looking at these digital projects is there's something that is it reasonable to expect eight one to two year return is a five year is this just something companies should be thinking about as a best practice for their company in the future period while actually wanted to or five years, think expectation needs to be much faster than that most of the things that were engage. With now, we're looking at something we can do with a one year return on investment, really, another major infrastructure components that sometimes are in play and that might be a little bit different. How the math works. But for, you know, throwing AI the return on investment edge to be measured in weeks in months, not years, yet think wanted to great things we've got some offerings in that space at allow us to actually go in and very quickly implemented solution that adds value with AI from a supply chain perspective or digital security perspective that we can really pull out of the box and applied. So it occurs me. We can step back into slits put some context on AI because it's a big topic. Right. I we can. So there's different elements within ASO when I think about days weeks months. I mean, if you're doing something around Republic process automation, it's days weeks months. I mean, the payback can't be measured in years now for thinking about doing something digital assistance. It should still be measured in months, certainly not more than a year in a digital system being something like, you know, hey, Google temperatures in Washington D C today. Right. They return an answer by going. Into all the data. That's our Nick at their disposal. You're talking about communist assistant or something that's recognizing the world around me as doing my job whether amend the back office are on the shop floor that development time is going to be a little bit greater now you're starting to stretch into that year timeframe, at least it what we see. So there's different elements of what is and how we work in machine learning that might impact. But certainly this is something where when we're talking about things like artificial intelligence and applying that to real problems the payback needs to be closer. Otherwise, the tendency might be a ROY boiling the ocean trying to do too much in a or maybe we're just misapplying. Are there any of these digital technologies that you think are under appreciated or on the horizon that are not quite being explored at the proper level yet within the sector? We talked about quantum in virtual reality in a I. I was the qualms coming for. Sure, I think one of the things that still surprising to me is is how underutilized some of the elements of extended reality are. So if you look at augmented reality, for instance, right? So you have a worker which has is own reality. And can use a tool like say the glasses to be able to put an overlay of Zion Documenta or an overlay of a harness in where the harnesses connections are supposed to go. There are tremendous number applications where you have it worker where you one have them digitally enabled. But they need have both hands for it. So the tablet just doesn't work or have worker. And you know, there's a great photo of a satellite, you know, being built up, you know, tall those things can be right in a big ladder. And the, you know, the the quote was the instructions are here pointing at a desk, but the works up here the top of the ladder. Right. I mean, those are applications for augmented reality. They're kinda to me. No brainers just go do and yet they're not being done. And a lot of places where the the Vallon case would be pretty clear yet actually went to take that a little bit broader wanted to translate. We talk about is the human plus worker trend and we've had for a long period of time in the aerospace defense industry issue with the types of capabilities, we need especially in our engineers, park development cetera. Very high cost individuals that are specialized in highly trained, and this whole virtual reality capability as well as the computational capabilities are out there can really help take your existing workforce in enable them to be faster to be better coordinated and to leverage the wisdom of their co workers, and generally they'll will knowledge it's out there. And we really have not taken full advantage of that yet. We haven't been able to enable our workforce in a way that we can very quickly apply them to new projects to meet new demand to be able to move them off of one product as soon as they're available and move them over to other projects in other divisions. Where they have the right skill set to do what needs to be done where they can leverage the wisdom of their coworkers. Or generally available knowledge applied to that project. Without necessarily being a deep expert at it to begin with. And that's something we really we really could see a difference in productivity of the workforce that we were able to do that. Well, it's probably a good as place as any to wrap up a want to thank both the both of you, gentlemen. John and Christopher for joining me and offering your insight and thank you to the listeners for joining us for check six with Accenture. Please check out the rest of our check six podcasts on Aviation Week dot com. And look for sensors tech vision twenty nine thousand nine hundred report on their website as well. Thanks and have a great prestige.
A More Muted Presidential Debate
"It's Friday October twenty third I'm Akilah. Hughes and I'm getting Resnick, and this is what day where we are choosing our president purely based on who claims to know more about wind. Yeah I mean, can you name the colors of them? Is there a mighty one? Can you explain the waves. We have questions. We need another debate where we ask these questions to both the candidates. Show the second and final presidential debate than some headlines. They WANNA. Knock down buildings and build new buildings with little tiny small windows. And many other things and many other things may have to vice president and we're running out of time. Okay. So last night in Nashville Vice President Joe Biden and president trump debated for a little over ninety minutes. The candidates discuss trump's pandemic response healthcare, racism, climate, change immigration, and more. There was a mute button and maybe the fear of it is what made the debate far more typical than last time we got to hear at least some uninterrupted answers and strange new phrases from trump like AFC plus three. Date called November third. Similar to a tribe called quest, I guess. We're going to break it all down but I, a lot has happened in the three weeks since Biden and trump last met in person for their first debate at the end of September for one trump got covid nineteen likely at a super spreader event he hosted at the white. House that and his wild interrupting performance in the first debate seemed to have damaged him further in the polls and while he was receiving aggressive treatment to recover from cove and returning to the campaign trail to continue down playing the virus and criticizing scientists, the pandemic has only. Gotten worse new daily cases in the US are above sixty thousand over eleven. Million people are out of work and there's still no relief bill and then there's the election which is very much happening right now over forty seven, million people have voted compared to just over a million as of the first debate, which is way more than what's normal by this point and the campaign. It's also more than the total early vote in twenty sixteen. Yeah and so going into last night trump who is behind in the polls has been attempting a new attack on. Joe Biden with the story about his son, Hunter Biden and files on his alleged laptop about his work in Ukraine. So that laptop is now reportedly in FBI hands and this is a complicated story in very dubious but here's what we know so far. The story was published in The New York Post last week by reporter who didn't want their byline on it, and it centers around email suggesting that hunter arranged a meeting between his father and the head of the Ukrainian energy firm. While Biden was VP other media outlets afterwards had not been able to. Confirm the story and whether the reported emails are in fact real and then after the debate, The Wall Street Journal published a piece that debunked many of the claims. The broader issue was part of a recent Senate Republican investigation that found no wrongdoing on the part of Joe, Biden and trump. Of course, was impeached for trying to seek damaging information from Ukraine on Biden and then to ads all of this dozens of former Intel officials say the files one hundred dollars laptop most likely contain Russian Info though it is not clear the FBI believes that point. Meanwhile when it comes to news about undisclosed overseas business dealings this week, The New York Times reported that trump has a secret bank account and China, where he has been pursuing business deals for years, the bank account has since been confirmed by lawyer for the trump organization and finally yesterday there was news from to upcoming sixty minutes interviews with the candidates Joe Biden said, he would create a bipartisan commission to look into court forum which didn't go far enough for some progressives, but it's the most concrete answered Biden has given. On the court so far and president trump who tried to scoop sixty minutes by posting the interview before them said that he wanted the Supreme Court to end the affordable care act for de Chess. My friends go quite a backdrop going into the debate to say the least let's talk about what went down last night. Akilah quick first impression here. All right. So I was prepared for this debate to be just as annoying as the first one and generally speaking I don't think it was it was quieter and less interrupt. The mute button function was good for the majority of the first answers to the moderator's questions. By the end although senseless non sequiturs started creeping back in also say that the moderator last night Kristen Welker was way better like so far ahead of Chris Wallace several weeks ago you know she kept the candidates on topic she forged ahead with better more relevant questions whenever trump threatened to devolve into conspiracy theories and generally speaking she seemed comfortable being there. So that was the VIBE. But Gideon, let's talk about what trump did last night how would you describe what he had to say? Yeah I definitely agree that it was more toned-down but on the substance I, think trump still acts enlarge part like he's running into. Kept, trying to cast his opponent as a career politician and one who was corrupt he brought up that hunter suffer example, but it didn't quite and it was a little bit hard to follow, and that strategy allows him to evade questions about his own term as well as his vision for the future he failed for instance, offer coherent message on the biggest crisis of his presidency covert nineteen and he at times tried to make the Democratic ticket seem more to the left than it is trump. Seems to always have Bernie Sanders on the brain and several times. He came back to the same point about Biden being a longtime politician who hasn't gotten anything done. But there was at least one specific moment where the strategy failed and he pretty remarkable way by turn to the camera and said, the debate should be about the families of people watching and not what the two candidates were talking about and trump kind of fell into a trap with a terrible answer. Here's a clip of that. This isn't about there's a reason why he's. been up all this Malarkey. There's a reason for he doesn't WanNa talk about the the the substantive issues it's not about his family and my family it's about your family and your family's hurting badly if you're making less than if you're a middle class family, you're getting hurt badly right now you're sitting at the kitchen table this morning to decide what we can't get new tires their ball because we have. To wait another month or so or are we going to be able to pay the mortgage who's going to tell her? She can't go back to to community college there the decision making in the middle class families like I grew up in. Scranton claim they're in trouble we should be talking about your families but that's a last thing he wants to talk about I wanted to say I wanted to tell. Me What is it? Ten seconds Mr President go political stupid. Let's get off this China thing and then he looks the family around the table everything just a typical politician I see that's. Difficult politician. That's why I got elected that. Let's get off the subject of China let's talk around sitting around the table. Right come on Joe you. Okay. So if we're following the logic here, trump is coming off as saying I'm not a typical politician I don't care about your family. Almost. Literally, what he's getting at that moment along with one word trump backed away from raising the federal minimum wage were really out of sync with what's going on in the country among working families. So a Gila, what did you make of trump last night? So I mean personally, I'm not giving US seventy four year old man props for not screaming like an infant during a debate like he's been here long enough he I don't know how to act by now. But in terms of the content of his answers, there wasn't really much worth talking about like. You said trump didn't really WANNA talk about his record at all at one point. He did say that he takes responsibility for covert but then he immediately pivoted to the same old static about how everything is China's fault and other points he blamed. Democratic. Governors and criticized overall continued to downplay the virus saying that schools and businesses should fully reopen but he revealed no plan to deal with the spikes and infections. In fact, he claim that there is a vaccine that's ready and we'll be deployed in a few weeks wad squad we know better. Okay. So. This was kind of his tactic. The whole night you know saying, Biden wasn't all talk? Do Nothing politician failing to defend his own record of racism environmental deregulation child separation or even express any sense of his plans regarding healthcare cove in nineteen immigration election interference if reelected. So that was trump but let's talk about Biden Yeah so the first chunk of this. Debate was about Cova D-, the, public health element of it, and the economic one, and that's where Biden has consistently offered one of the best and most obvious contrast with something that literally everyone can see the impact of with their own eyes I thought he managed to keep talking the focus throughout the debates and things that have been a staple of his campaign. And why he's frankly winning right now, the pandemic healthcare things like that, and then in the parts where he did get into discussions of his record on criminal justice immigration and more, he could get wind de at times a little bit harder to follow. Those weren't quite as strong but the trump campaign keeps looking and looking for one huge gaffer mistake from. Biden but is somehow good change things in the course of this race and I don't really think that we saw that here's a strong section of Biden talking about the pandemic near the start of the debate following an instance where trump's at Americans were quotes learning to live with it referring to the virus he says, we're you know we're learning to live with. People who are learning to die with it, you folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning that man or wife gone to bed tonight reaching over to try to touch their out of habit where their wife or husband was as gone learning to live with it. Come on we're dying with it because he's never said, he said it's dangerous. When's the last time? Is it really dangerous? Still we dangerous you tell the people is dangerous. Now what they do about the danger and you say I no responsibility let me talk about your fears me take I, take full responsibility. It's not my fault that he came here. It's China's fault and you know what? It's not Joe's fault that he came here either it's China's fault. Okay. Well, you know the contrast between these two candidates is so stark and I think another incredibly example of that was the section about race and racism. So Donald Trump's entire campaign has been broken record about the ninety four crime bill and he Continues to conflate Biden and that superpredators comment. It's one that Biden didn't make and BN owned up to the fact that these at the time very popular bills did more harm than good. He pointed to the ways. The Obama Administration tried to address the mandatory minimums and commute presences and I'm not saying that it's perfect at all. But Hey, at least the point to like something they tried to do. That affected more than just people Kim Kardashian his vouch for but Biden was also surprisingly thorough on his read of trump's racism which he hadn't been so quick about in the past here's a short clip. The fact of the matter is in two thousand though after the crime bill had been in in the law for a while, this is a guy who said the problem with the Crime Bill. There's not enough people in jail. There's not enough people in jail and go on my website get to quote the date when he said it not enough people he talked about marauding gangs, young gangs, and the people who are going to Murad our cities. This is a guy who in the central park, five, five innocent black kids you continue to push for making sure that they got the death penalty. None of them were guilty of the crime of the crimes ever suggested yeah. Biden also brought up trump's Muslim countries ban and trump's comments about immigrants which trump weirdly double down on at one point referring to imigrants as low Iq for following the law and showing up for their court hearings sounds like something somebody with a really high I, Q would say just days before an election when he's trailing with every group that is in white man but I digress Gideon this is the end. Do you have any final parting thoughts just breathing that in for second? Joe Biden did not say look you're fat during any of these debates thoroughly disqualifying me would've loved a push up contest did not get that. Look. I truly think the Nice thing is were free for more of these. We learned we're GONNA learn and we made it past them but. I'm so glad that we're done with this I'm so fucking. Also I do think that you know at this point, your campaign slogan is big if true and you're just pointing the laptop that might have some bad information on them we'll have to find out obviously you're grasping at straws and I wish you know love? Yeah. The truth of the matter is my laptop from Hell is the one that I work on. That his. Own. It's Friday Wad squad, and for today's Tim check, we're talking about a strong Bug A. New Study in nature described the defense mechanisms of the so called Diabolical Ironclad Beato, which some described as quote. On crushable thanks to an exoskeleton that has multiple layers built in air pockets to interlocking lobes. Little Bug can withstand forces that would quote liquefy most other animals to put a number on it. These beetles can survive forces thirty nine, thousand times their own body weight that's equivalent to one person being crushed by twenty-five blue whale. So giddy if you could stand these kinds of crushing forces, how would it change your lifestyle? I think I wouldn't be afraid of window air conditioners and. them at thinking that at a certain point one is inevitably going to fall and destroy me because I'm not a diabolical beadle. That'd be the first thing I would. I. Would Walk Worry Free Beneath all of them. I would tempt fate and jump under them and ask Yeah I feel like, yeah, like just walking down the street is not a change in the lifestyle but demanding that people throw their air conditioning's at your head that's a that's a change. Yeah. I would say, yeah push them out. You know I'm here I'm waiting I'm waiting to get hit. Haven't to it for you I, think that's great. Same question though what are you doing here with your your strong Exoskeleton I mean I think that I would probably join like may fighting or something like Ronda Rousey it'd be like out of a job. Go ahead, keep kicking me in the face I feel nothing I'm GonNa Rake in these checks like I mean I'm assuming that this bug bleeds the bugs bleed I don't know how bugs were. Have blood so I would probably still be bleeding. I guess. But happy to get kicked in the face for a check. If I'm you know resilient, right the interesting thing here is that doesn't really get to the question of pain I just realized so like. The air conditioner would still hurt right and the kicking would still hurt. I mean, I don't know I. Doubt It. This excess skeleton diabolical ironclad beetles is really like worried about it. You know like it's not it's not affected. It's fair. I, think that I have a lot of lingering questions for these folks that studied this in nature and I would like to talk to them about it and I would like to make this my life's work to figure out you know how we can become. Ironclad Beetles. Strength. or how they can make a car out of one well, just like that we've checked our temps stay safe if you're a beetle good for you for being so resilient and we'll be back after some ads. As brought to you by Num Num, the habit changed program that uses psychology teach you how your mind works. So you can understand why you make decisions you make him feel empowered to change for good with new me pixel goals that are right for you having more stamina to keep up with your busy life Craxi more self care or feeling more confident in Neum personalizes a program to help your aspirations become reality everyone is busy. That's why neum doesn't demand much of your time. They only ask for ten minutes a day. What do you have to lose visit new DOT com slash today to start your trial today that's Neum N. O. N. dot com slash today. WHAT'S UP WAD squad? 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They are so confident that you will absolutely love their products and come back again and again that they are giving you fifteen dollars spent on your first purchase, you have nothing to lose just go to public goods, dot com slash what or use Code Wad at checkout that is PB L. C. J. O. D. S. dot com forward slash wad to receive fifteen dollars off your first order. The number four reporter in Kasdan has returned for a second tour. That's after fourteen years. Borat is back and this time is on a mission to make this country. Great again by giving a precious gift to someone high up in the White House don't miss the return to the legend as he tours the country during the heat of the election at the height of the pandemic at the heart of all the chaos and just in time to save twenty twenty be sure to check out borat subsequent movie film delivery of prodigious bribe to American regime for make benefit once glorious nation of Kazakhstan rated R. and brought to you by Amazon Studios Watch now only on prime video. Let's put some headlines. Head aligns. FDA approved the first drug to Covid nineteen yesterday from desert is an anti-viral medicine that's given to patients that have been hospitalized by the virus. It has already been used to treat patients on an emergency basis since May. As well as our president earlier this month, a study by the NIH found that REMM desert can shorten cove recovery time by an average of five days. Some health experts criticized disappears manufacturer Gilead, for the drugs high price point, which is between two and three thousand dollars for one patient. Typical Treatment Course Company was previously criticized for failing to prevent a global shortage of beer which is driven by high demand for the drug, any patent which gives Gilead the exclusive right to sell it. As if to distract us from the pandemic by reminding us that there's also a war on women's rights, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo signed the US to an antiabortion declaration yesterday, which says quote in no case should abortion be promoted as a method of family planning the so called Geneva Consensus Declaration Yuk was cosigned by thirty other countries that are largely considered to have conservative or authoritarian governments including Saudi Arabia Egypt and Indonesia. Some of the countries are even on Georgetown's women peace and security index as the worst countries in the world for a woman to Live USA USA we. Lemon. Poland unsurprisingly was one of the countries who signed the declaration and they have some of the most restrictive abortion laws in Europe just yesterday Poland's highest court approved a complete ban on abortion in the country. She's. Uber pioneered rideshare, but they've also made huge strides in the field of coercion. The company has been sending drivers in California a quote constant barrage of messages urging them to support their ballot proposition and yesterday a group of drivers suit to stop the practice. The proposition in question is California twenty, two, which Uber. Lift Jordache and other APPs have funded to the tune of nearly two hundred, million dollars approximately two passes. It'll allow Roger APPs decides that California Law and treat their drivers as independent contractors rather than employees which for drivers would mean, no paid time off no unemployment insurance no workers comp no overtime pay and a diminished ability to. unionize the proposition would also require seven eighths majority to amend. So California legislators aside later on that APPS shouldn't right laws changing course will be almost impossible. That is not what Uber drivers have been seeing when they use the APP though instead they see message to say quote property to his progress and require them to click either vote yes. On property it's you or okay to continue Uber used similar tactics on riders as well. Uber drivers say the messages are illegal since the state of California prohibits employers from influencing the political activities of employees check the shown us to learn more about proctoring to and please enjoy watching proffering commercials from. Lifton. Since they cost companies approximately the price of one avatar and they're not nearly as entertaining as a blue planet. Well, we hear a lot about green means go but not so much about Greens dot that all changed earlier this month when a Green Doug was born in Italy this is true. It's important and if you have access to a large and now it'd be a good time to connect it to wide. So your whole apartment complex can stay up to date on this ground breaking news. The GREENFORD PUP was born into a litter of five in all of his siblings have white foreleg his mom puppies born green when they have contact with a certain green pigment in the womb in related news, the unborn dog who die on himself. So he came out photo ready is already my main makeup inspiration beautiful for the fall. Is. The dog's name in his green color is already starting to wear off. So any scientists working on a time stop being device should work faster. So we can prolong this fleeting moment of green bliss. 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99% Invisible's Roman Mars on How People, Politics, and Pandemics Impact Design
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Have you ever wondered what those bright squiggly graffiti marks on the sidewalk main or stop to consider why you don't see metal fire escapes on new buildings or pondered the story behind those dancing inflatable figures and car dealerships. One podcast shines a light on those overlooked elements in the built environment, and also happens to be one of my personal favorites that I listened to every week. Ninety nine percent invisible is a big ideas podcast about small seeming things revealing stories baked into the buildings. We inhabit the streets we drive and the sidewalks we traverse the show celebrates design and architecture in all of its functional glory and accidental absurdity with intriguing tales of both designers and the people impacted by their designs. Now, in a new book titled The Ninety Nine Percent Invisible city a field guide to the hidden world of Everyday Design Ninety Nine P. I host Roman Mars and Co author Kurt Kolstad Zoom in on the various elements that make our cities work exploring the origins and Other fascinating stories behind everything from power grids and Fire Escapes Two Drinking Fountains and street signs and today. I'm happy to welcome Roman back to the show to reveal why it's taken him a decade to finally right and ninety nine percent invisible book. All of the thought that this design fan put into the look of his first book and some of the secret publishing considerations that determine everything from how many units get returned to whether or not a book gets sold by Costco? We. Talk, about the baseball player who outlasted his sell by date and became synonymous with stairs to nowhere and other useless architectural elements, how the lost art of Neon to bending is making a comeback and how residents local governments and more impact the look and character of a neighborhood. For instance, Roman shares, how taxes of played a role in the shape of buildings throughout history and the role that design plays and making our public spaces safer and our cities more pedestrian friendly during the current pandemic. Plus we talk about creepy dolls librarians on a power trip hideous city flags and San Francisco's love hate relationship with the Transamerica pyramid coming up with ninety nine percent invisibles Roman, Mars in just a moment. Put. Roman. Mars is Creator and host of ninety nine percent invisible the wildly popular podcast exploring architecture and design for which he produced the most successful crowd funding campaigns for podcast in kickstarter history fast company named Mars. One of the hundred most creative people in two thousand thirteen and he was a ted main stage speaker in two thousand fifteen. Now at long last, he's come out with a wonderful new book titled The Ninety Nine Percent Invisible city, a field guide to the hidden world of everyday design. Roman. Mars. CONGRATS on the book and welcome back to the PODCAST. Thank you so much I'm really excited to be back. Well. Since we last spoke, there's one thing that I've been wondering about you have an unusual name. I don't meet a lot of Mars out there. Are you by any chance any relation to Franklin Enforce Mars of the Mars Candy Empire you guys who created him? The Mars bar course. I wish I could say was. Would be a whole lot easier the case whether or not the game. Okay. Sorry. I just had to ask. That Candy Money Man I can't even it. That's a private I followed them for a long time. Obviously yeah and that's a private company owned by still a family and. That is not my foul. Okay. Okay. Yeah. By the way, I love that you've continued the tradition of bold names in your family with your son's Maslo Rocket Mars and Carver Atomic Mars I'm assuming those names were all you did your wife did you give you any push back at first on those Oh? No not at all. No. Their mom like picked out. Lewis was instrumental in picking those names that was that they were definitely part of her invention. Even we sort of settled on the first names to come together and then I think we were brainstorming. Different parts of the of making the middle name really exciting for them to choose to go with later on in life. But yeah, that's true. Now for anyone who has never listened to your podcast ninety, nine percent of visible and I certainly encourage them to do. So it's just wonderful. Could you explain the mission statement behind ninety nine I? It's a show about design, but in the broader sense possible, it's really. It's really the story of you know why things are the way they are, and it's using the built world or any sort of built concept or anything designed to tell us who we are as humans like through the things that we make, and so it's just revolt curiosity, but often takes the form of. Looking at bridges and buildings and intersections and things like that. We we we like to focus on the mundane and try to tell you the most interesting story about mundane things. Yeah. You define design fairly broadly it makes me think of your latest episode, which is about the woman who founded the children's reading room at the New York Public Library I just love that it was just listening to it this morning and it's interesting to think that there was a time when libraries not only didn't cater to kids but pretty much banned them from coming in yeah. They didn't understand why you would invest energy in this cognitive life of in China. Does really there was just a different view of Childhood in. So this woman and Carol more really you know change that like almost single-handedly in like pushed all this. Stuff in in forward into the world and it, and now I, mean I think people think of the Children's section of the library is almost the primary part of a library because of her I'm one of those people who gets excited every time I stumble on one of the original Carnegie libraries wherever I am I don't know about you. You probably do the same thing, but I would bet that none of those had a children's section when they were I. Know they did not. They did not really I mean they you know like I think people try different things I mean there's a there tends to be like we since we tell a lot of stories one of the things you learn when you tell origin stories is that origin stories are never quite as clean as they tend to be presented. So there's you know when you Have libraries everywhere. There is undoubtedly some librarian in some corner of Saint Louis or you know like Jefferson city or whatever who who has decided to put together a little children's corner. Yum, and it never went anywhere. But but yeah, we I you know. So it's very likely there were nothing in until anchor or more, but it's also possible that there were -cational. Children's parts of other libraries depending on who was there, but I love that episode because she starts out trying to offer immigrants pork the chance to read books, and then she becomes this huge influence in the children's publishing world and eventually kind of goes a little bit power mad by the end of it I have to ask you to tell this story of this strange story within a story really in the podcast about the doll she used to carry around. Too Bizarre for me not to bring that up here. Yes Oh. So one of the things that happened is she's basically the inventor of the Children's section of the library you really came to the New York Public Library and created this. and. But but she really specific tastes. I mean she was a person who was really working towards something vision that she had in mind for for what a children's library should be, and that included not including a lot of books that had real world problems and things do cities. She really liked this sort of pastoral imaginative settings of like Winnie, the Pooh and things like that. But things that involve cities in grittiness she was not a fan of and so she ended up banning those because he has much. Influence you know a lot of libraries around the country also didn't stock those books, and until you know later on life in her, you know her grip on the children's publishing world loosened did books like good night moon and where the wild things are and things like that become become more of what we think of as as children's literature. But she also had her own quirks which were she had his wooden doll that she carried around called Nicholas Knickerbocker who was extensively there to encourage the kids to. You engage with her and not be shy and and and be part of the library, but she also cater out like all the time. And and you know it kind of forced her employees to talk to her through the doll and in if there was something that upset her, she would say stuff like Nicholas Knickerbocker doesn't like the sound of that and like this and so she had these sort of. You know like even though she was groundbreaking and I think she did I come on this is that she did way more good than harm in Rye World you know she had her her little moments of tyranny that were pretty of pudding for a lot of people for sure Yeah. I think that you said that big authors like Beatrix Potter Woodville at write notes Nicholas. Kind of pitch, Nicholas, SORTA, you had to buy into this fantasy of her because. She because it wasn't a huge even bookstore you're seeing there wasn't nationalized bookstores like Dalton's Waldenbooks as you know predates that so like. the children's library as the as she built. It was the main buyer of children's books the you know during this time period and and so she had so much influence on the market that you you presented your book to her to see if she accepted it because it meant whether you sold them or not to the country, and so you know there was a certain amount of fealty that was required and so Beatrix Potter may have just loved her and the doll in loved all this stuff. But you you can't deny that she also had to do that. Sort of stuff. Let him lead to to get accepted and I don't know if this is from your podcast or where I'm getting this from. But I want to say that it reminds me of a story of a guy in Manhattan in the thirties and forties who used to carry a mannequin around with him. Everywhere he went. He would get a booth and sit there with his man again and talk to her is that was that an episode from the yeah, we did an episode called Mannequin Pixie Dream Girl. It was up by the same reporter producer, Joe Rosenberg and And so he he he delights in those particular stories but yeah, that was another. That's. Where a lot of people like played into this fantasy and in you know like didn't know how to Tom No? Yeah. Yeah. I WANNA say wasn't there a movie like that with Kim Cottrell. It was I think it was called. Mannequin. Win Fact. Yeah exactly. There was that new in the the the the the more modern day reverend's his like Lars and the real girl where he he's a with A. All too but is you know it's like it there's a there's a bit of a history of this, but it is decidedly weird for sure. Well, I wanNA talk about this wonderful new book that you just put out the ninety nine percent invisible city. This is coming out I. WanNa say it's a around the ten year anniversary of the start of your podcast, a surprise that it's taken. So long for you to do a ninety nine Pi Book I'm sure you must have had offers from publishers for years now why wait why now? I mean, it really started from the beginning. The main thing was that I just we weren't ready I wasn't ready. The show takes up a ton of time. You know like an book is a really big project but also you know like we do a show about design I'm really designed minded in sort of every respect and I needed to there to be a reason for it to be a book like I made him podcast podcast isn't necessarily need to be a book. So he needed a reason and what would it have happening was? You know we reach this threshold where you know I've known four hundred fifteen episodes of the show in there's all this information and sort of a worldview built of how to. How to take in the city taken the world how to examine things closely at a thing can be curious and ask questions. And they're kind of locked up in this. Audio Linear format that you know. I don't know if it's really easy to revisit. So like for example, if you had a question about. the mannequin guy or like curb cuts or fire escapes you'd have to remember like when what year did that episode come out right was it called because I probably didn't call it just fire escapes I probably named it something clever at the time but now here legally obligated to search for it, and this sort of like all this information is were locked up in a really wanted this idea of a field guide. To tell the way to tell the story in in these fund essays that that you could look through leaf through find your own way. You know use it as a guide to the city, and it's a guy to any city but uses examples from all over the world. But the idea is you know if you're interested in the streetlight at your corner, will tell you a story about the most interesting streetlight that we know of, which is the one in Syracuse new. York we'RE NOT GONNA. Tell you about the one in your corner we don't know who your corner is but. But. And so there was like there became to be a reason for it to exist in in that and that was really that was really add and you know at ten years it's sort of it seemed to make sense to reach out. We, we like as you're a long-time listener. In there's a way that. Way There's a way that we kind of own a way of thinking in the certain subjects. So there's a thing about flags in the world like I get sent it. If there's a thing of coin challenge going I, get. Sandra information about it. There's a good thing that we and I just wanted to sort of like expand that worldview to people who've never heard a podcast. You know they're still like seventy five percent of the world has never turn on a podcast and in a book make sense for them, and so it was kind of a little bit of an outreach a little bit of a compendium, a little bit of like how to you know do something. To celebrate doing this for ten years and a new challenge and and also Kurt Cole Said who who's Co authored book like he had the verve and drive and he really pushed it forward and I have never done it on my own. That's Shor in the also kind of this delight to make thing in the world you know like it's a beautiful objected has great illustrations and stuff, and he just was all crew came together at the right time and in any time before this would never have done it wasn't it wasn't right particularly for you. It must be pleasing to finally have created something that you can hold in your hands. You Know God casts are so ephemeral. But to be able to leave through it and put it on your bookshelf for forever and wonder fifty years from now, where will that book be would be in the library and a resale shop who I will pick that I, it hasn't really hit me yet what that means 'cause I because I am a lover of books and I am I, it's been. So when you're involved in project, it's so hard to do the project that you just begin to lane on resent. Part of an and then and I was looking at the other day as I was I just I was kind of delighted at just what it looked like it felt like and stuff like that and re remembering what it was all four and so this is the time period where it feels kind of Nice. But I I assure you every moment up to this point in the book it's been. Pretty tough. I love that you didn't just cash in on your following just throw anything out there. This book is packed full of things that fans of the show will appreciate from the wonderful artwork to the reference to quote unquote beautiful. Downtown Oakland when you record them podcast every page of this book is very much imbued with the spirit of ninety nine Pi Yeah. We definitely did not want it to be I mean in the very beginning. The first thing that was offered to me in terms of books was just like make transcripts available of the show or. Like loosely meal Pros Affi- transcripts and I was I don't I don't want to be associated with things like I needed to be good and so like it is a real book, it is dense has tons of stories that are not from the show. Everything is from the show is like Italy like the kind of fifty fifty there's like fifty fifty percent new stuff and you present that has some source in the show, but every bit of it, that's even source. The show is like researched and represented a new way, and it's also written completely differently because. When you write for the page and you write for your voice it's totally different. So and then the all the images and stuff like it's it's a real book. It's a lovely thing. Even the thing we first got the layout back and I were looking at it and and I was like the index is beautiful. Isn't it? Like the index really looks good delegates formatted beautifully like there are things like this that I kind of love and there's little secrets and the designed that people find that are that are fun too. So it's IT'S A it's a book. A book, it's a product of its thing I have to say I absolutely love the cover of the book and I don't know if I'm giving away one of these little secrets than you mentioned, but even the dust cover It sort of serves as a field to the cover. There's a field guide within the right the last one of our big. Surprises and funding to figure out without it. Make something kinda delightful. That was in the spirit of the book in immediately on the cover. Yeah. I'm assuming that the aesthetic of the book was very important to you. How much time did you spend figuring out what the book was GonNa Look like? Like like a ton. More time than writing. I mean it was just one of those things that they were like spreadsheets like Kurt. Made Kurt was leading only the CO author, but he was like the project manager and so like he was like every essay was like, what requires an illustration why? What? What style? Where's it? GonNa fit you know like what are we going to do about the cover we talked about the cover lot and and then Rothfield. Like designed the cover design, the book in Patrick Vale to the illustrations and they all came together to create something kind of amazing and and the original idea was to maybe do the you know that Niamh son was below go is a is a is a agreed with a yellow square with meka completely covered dustjacket in than you would only see one little portion of like one percent would be visible but it was there was considerable two cryptic and full dustjackets you tear you know that there were things to learn about the book industry that we didn't know you know and and we will. Not Die cut it'll be like this and in. The publisher was like, Yeah. But if we do that, we're going to get back about five percent because a book with a torn cover isn't going to be sold and you know things like this is just like. Okay. Well, there's the thing that I have to think about, and then this is we always knew WANNA be slightly off sized like it will. It wasn't exactly. normal hornbeck book. It's a little bit wider a little bit bigger and but but within reason in there's things like they're like, well, Costco can't. They won't lay the book down if it isn't like kind of within these parameters and things like this, just look you have no idea and these are the type because you know like I'm designer and I love the stories of things even this sort of hidden story of what makes it know required one of the dimensions required so that Costco will buy your book stock it is interesting to me. We. We went through all that stuff. It was one of those things that never seemed to stop and we still find things that we want to shift and change. It says one of those things. But yeah, there was a ton of effort into all that. Yeah you could do hope podcast just on that wonder what would you have said if editors at Houghton Mifflin said Let's just slap grigny photo of you on the cover here, and with that have been a deal breaker. For sure I mean luckily they always went into this with. There's certain point like every contract. If you read a book contract, it is not like in the author's favourite at all. His not. Selling yourself away in so they could have easily done. Within their rights to put a picture of me on the cover it just so happened that they were always collaborative like they treated it is if we had veto power that we actually I don't think we truly had to the truth. So. We take a quick break and then we'll return with more when we come back in just a moment. In unprecedented times like these, it's great to know that the American dream lives on. That's right. Shark tank is back in business and it's more inspirational and crazy than ever. When you see what they did to get this show back on the air, it'll blow your mind as well. The wild inventions, the most driven entrepreneurs from around the country will bring into the tank. There's no better time for an uplifting. Show like this and with some amazing new guests, sharks including the creator of Toms Shoes Blake mccloskey, and jewelry designer, and CEO Kendra Scott One thing's for certain in the tank. The streets are still paved with gold from self cleaning water bottles to pizza cupcakes. When the shark a great idea, the feeding frenzy is on the Emmy Winning Shark Tank returns Friday October Sixteenth at eight seven central only on ABC. More. Now, than ever understanding the nuances of are uncertain and rapidly changing world is key to success on the podcast. WHAT'S AHEAD FINANCIAL LEGEND Steve Forbes sits down with today's leading business economic and cultural minds everyone from CEOS to scientists to celebrities to give listeners a better grasp of what's coming as well as sharing his own perspectives on the days most pressing issues. On what's ahead Steve Forbes talks with everyone from Jack Ma to Eva Longoria Steven Schwartzman to doctor is to give listeners insights from across the spectrum of ideas. The key to getting and staying out in front is understanding what's ahead. So check out what's ahead with Steve Forbes on Apple podcasts, spotify Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget check out what's ahead with Steve Forbes wherever you get your podcasts. Warning, high potency supplements aren't for everyone. But if you're intent on continuous improvement and accomplishing health and wellness goals, then you need to meet v Thrive the vitamin SHOPPE brand these quality vitamin supplements and more are simply clean no magnesium steer rates derek acid or titanium dioxide zero artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners visit vitamin SHOPPE DOT, com forward slash podcast or any of the vitamin SHOPPE stores to level up your health routine and show your body some major love with solutions like active flex plus featuring clinically studied ingredients like pray flex and types one and two Collagen to help fuel healthy. Joints tendons, ligaments, and deliver results. You can feel discover their most advanced formulas, bioactive men's and women's multivitamins with immune supporting vitamin. C. And d, plus zinc, and everything else to fill in the nutrient gaps and explore heart-healthy full spectrum fish oils made from wild caught US sourced Alaskan Pollack plus new for twenty twani advanced not formula for cognitive function energy production, and up to five hours of improved alertness find them all and more at vitamin, Shoppe DOT, com Ford Slash podcast that's vitamin S. H. P. P. E. dot com forward slash podcast, or visit the vitamin SHOPPE store near you. Warning high potency supplements aren't for everyone but if you're intent on continuous improvement and accomplishing your health and wellness goals, then you need to meet v Thrive the vitamin SHOPPE brand, these quality vitamin supplements, and more are simply clean. No magnesium steer eight steering acid or titanium dioxide zero artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners visit vitamin. Shoppe. Dot Com slash podcast or any the vitamin SHOPPE store to level up your health routine and show your body's a major love with solutions like active flex plus featuring clinically studied ingredients like apprai- flex and types one and two Collagen to help fuel healthy joints. Tendons ligaments and deliver results. You can feel discover the most advanced formulas, bioactive men's and women's multivitamins with immune supporting vitamin C, and D, plus zinc, and everything else to fill in the nutrient gaps and explore heart healthy full spectrum fish oils made from wild caught US sourced Alaskan Pollack Lust new for twenty twenty advanced Noah Tropic formula for cognitive function energy production up to five hours of improved alertness bind them all and more at vitamin SHOPPE DOT com forward slash podcast that's vitamin S. H. O. P. P. E. DOT COM forward slash podcast or visit the vitamin SHOPPE store near you. And many of the stories in ninety nine percent invisible city or the ninety nine percent invisible city will be familiar to listeners of the show. One old favorite of mine is Thomson's now almost everyone listening has probably seen a thomason when they're walking around their neighborhood or going into the city and they don't even realize it or at least they they don't know that there's an actual name for these things explain what a Thomason is. A Thomason is a little like vestigial peace city. So something that's unused you know like like a leftover mailbox that no longer takes male or a piece of railing the the quintessential example that the the artists Akasa again pay like. Bound was a staircase that went up to the side of a building had a landing they went back down and at the landing, you'd expect a door, but the door was long gone but the staircase was still there and it's not just the that the staircase was still there is that the staircase was still maintained like the the railing was repainted recently and he was fascinated by something that was useless but maintained and he began looking for them all over the city, and then like opening up he he was part of A. Photographic magazine and you take pictures of them and people would send in their their A. Thomason and he named Thomas on the recent way name them. Thomason. Was that he was a baseball fan and there was an American baseball player named Gary Thomasson and he was he played here for the San Francisco Giants Barry or where I'm from and he had later on in his career he began to play for the giants in in Japan and he was a very expensive American baseball player that did not perform well as soon. As he came to Japan. So he was he drew this metaphor of of this very expensive well-maintained player who was functionally useless on the baseball team and he called so called these things in the cities he called them Thomas and so So we you know we we heard this story was so totally intrigued by it and represented it and talk to the translator and and different people to talk about and I think Thomas I. Mean it sounds good dig I totally understand why some you know like the. You know Tom was in wooden necessarily mean like in love with his idea. Of being named after this thing, however these are kind of delightful. You know things divined in the city their way to be engaged. They're the kind of a form of art in the city that exists and having an epidemic for something that really does give people. Joy is is something that I hope that the people who know Thomas New Thomason would would. Would accept as a as a compliment. Yeah makes me think of you know sometimes I've seen stairs that go to nowhere the door has just been bricked over or the kind of the opposite. You'll see you know second-story door but no stairs leading down exactly. Yeah. In those things are Super Fun and the reason why I like him as I'd like. I like for us to take in the city as a whole both. Designed object and also this accidental accumulation of different decisions. All kind of interact with each other and it's like he seen all that complexity seen. All those weird choices and how they represent our values at different times just makes the city come alive to me in a in a cool way and so like rather than be annoyed or I don't know just like just or thank that's dumb. Why is that stairway go up there and there's no door just take a moment to just take some delight in the ridiculousness of it and go like, oh. Yeah. We're humans we're were ridiculous and and things change over time and we're doing our best and sometimes we paint a railing to stairs that go nowhere in that's part of the human condition too. Yeah. That's one thing that comes up a lot on your podcast is how some of these more overlooked things in the built environment such as Thomas? Get left behind as a neighborhood changes and also just how design and or discarded design. Act, as indicators of the socioeconomic status of particular area, it makes me think of a particular chapter in here on to Bender's would, which is not something that you get during sex or something. To the lost art of making neon sign and it's interesting because neon at their best they bring about this warm sense of nostalgia coffee shop or maybe an old cadillac dealership but it can also be a sign literally and figuratively of a neighborhood that's in decline. You know when we're watching a movie and there's an old neon sign flickering on and off. Or has a letter that's busted out and it's usually accompanied by an ominous sense that someone's going to get jumped or stumble over a dead body. It's never a good thing is no I mean today especially I mean there was a time where neon was huge represented. You know like this it represented the or front of like fashion and technology and it. was. A little sign of something fancy happening, and there are streets like market street in San Francisco. Before a Bart came in, they ripped up the street to create the Bart line underground and in that process they took down all these overhanging neon signs, markets go look like Las, Vegas I mean it was just it was just of the time. This was a big deal of showing off with a you know what fancy establishment you had and like anything that's fashionable over time you know when fashions change and things are left over there was. The older parts of town and and then the other thing that happened with the in particular is that it's fragile gets a class tube with a gas in it in its excited by electricity in. So if you if one goes out, then all of a sudden because hundreds of dollars to fix people don't have the money to fix it and it really shows its agents wear a little too much and so it's It's often indicator of other things but then there's moments where it's done really well and I think neon is actually reaching a new. Resurgence like if you look at startups in in the bay area in the past few years including like our show like they have customized neon signs, they put in their headquarters because it has a little bit of layer of nostalgia as something cool and novel and and there's a artistic quality to it. So it's more nation artistic than it was but now it's sort of indicates fancy nece again, and these things are all cycles. So you have a neon signed for ninety nine percent invisible or radio pio for what is something like that cost just acuras no we we We got an extremely good deal because we were doing the show on consigns and and want to talk to you after we're all done was like. Would you like a neon sign and I was like, yes, lease and so we basically pay. You know the wholesale pays the cost price and and and she came in and made us sites. It's the we have very first fund the early fundraisers for the show we made these challenge coins in. It's It's the symbol of one of the. It's the first challenge coins at neon sign of it, and it's hangs in the in the. Entrance door office and it's really beautiful. I just love him and you also talk about design and how it plays into the identity of neighborhoods and how those form and change over years. Most neighborhood identities evolve gradually as a reflection of the people who live there, but then it can also come from a more organized gentrification effort or even sometimes local governments tried to impose an identity from the top down. You have a chapter in here on that talk about some examples of that and it does it usually work or residence tend to resist that kind of thing. Well it depends. I mean really it's sort of like you know the thing is like, what makes the character over city is all those things as a lot of top down it's a lot of bottom up and and what makes a city is that conversation back and forth with people do you making interventions on their own behalf? You know like like griller interventions in the city to make something the way they are and and then lots of planning from above and it's always a push-and-pull and in one. Of the things that I think you know I think when people cover design in the broad sense like they they would think about a big office building or a tower a change in the character of the city of an architect having a lot of influence on how was it is perceived in an I get that. But I also think that you know a person of up a store in a neighborhood changes the city as much as any architect ever could, and so it's really all that stuff together. That is what? What makes us any what it is in any particular the the currents were thing that people fight about law is sort of tactical urbanism. That's were where people are putting him bike lanes that aren't there because they wanna make the city more suitable to their knees. I think that we've overvalued cars in cities and I agree with that you know and so. And then those and then occasionally those bike lanes are by the city itself they realized that this is valuable and is important it serves constituency and so it's worth it but but doing that from the top down is almost impossible and so that conversation and the all the messy nece is what makes the city city and that's why it's in the way. You can write about it and Leslie again that's a very timely topic because you know here in California cities are closing some traffic lanes to provide more outdoor seating for restaurants during the pandemic cities like New York have closed down entire thoroughfares like Madison Avenue to allow pedestrians more room for social distancing I I. Agree I mean when there's these moments of. Crisis and people can see the ability to change and the need to change the people get more of an ability to experiment had they've more capacity to experiment more willingness to experiment and one of the things that I? You know like you know we obviously never plan for this book two years ago to to reach an audience you know today during A. Pandemic wildfires and all these things. But we but one of the things that is clear is that it's an interesting time to examine how we got to now when it comes to cities right at this moment when. People experimenting with cities in all these different types of ways in all these sort of like like a light architecture changes like tape on the floor to indicate where people should stand in maybe I it was tape and then it was like then it was like these. Designed like little things with feet on them and signs, and just in they have messages on them they've evolved into that and the plexiglass. Between you and the registered that came up really really fast like within a few a week or something I started seeing that and. Sometimes when we when we look at our city, we have a very solid cystic view of the world. We think the city is as it was. When we entered into it and it probably should always say that way you know where the way we're used to and so when you see these moments of change, it's an interesting time to go like, wait a minute. If that has changed. When did we get this thing to you know if if if why you know like if you can, if you can't close down the street to make it all like Outdoor seating. Why did we ever think that streets? You know why did streets become car only at a certain point because that happened that wasn't like a thing that happened the beginning in the beginning streets were this completely mix of pedestrians and horses and carts and vendors and everything, and you you navigated the street and it was dangerous and it was weird. But nothing went fast enough for it to be like a huge problem and then cars came on and then just set and they just said this is mine like. Cars versus like roads or mind, and the thing was is that was a choice that wasn't inevitable that wasn't just like a thing that just happened and it wasn't always the way it was and so when you have these moments where you take part of the road back because there is a need for people to sit outside, you can look at all that stuff and realize that the usual choices, their choices that we can examine again, designed what our priorities are today and that. You know that thought process is valuable like not accepting the status quo as is is a valuable thing you in the end decide that roaches say the way they are and they need to have cars or whatever it is at least you thought about it and that's what like our show is really all about thinking about those things and this moment with all this change is a really interesting time to think about those things again. Yet makes me think of what was his name I want to say a gridlock Sam in New York who was this guy who for years was pushing to make it a more pedestrian friendly city yet he was up against these massive forces guys like Robert Moses who was determined to force Manhattan to become a driver's city I mean he wanted to bulldoze Washington Square to create an expressway only and you've really had the odds against an absolutely and and gridlock Sam like none not to mention inventing the word gridlock is like His ideas have You know really you know come to the forefront get to think about them differently in but then there's other things like right now is a good time to think about. How cities function in that way, and then maybe we can get rid of cars and good luck. Sam was was proposing the seventies that there shouldn't be cars on you know I think was weekdays or weekends. There was like there different like times with just being no cars Manhattan always sort of notions that the people went went went pretty far and then reexamine them but there's also you know like. A lot of people like I was talking to somebody from Houston and a lot of people in Houston right now because the pandemic they're they're spread out lifestyle bubble car like you know three thousand square foot house lifestyle seems like a great choice in the pandemic because they can be in a bubble and they can never contact people and they're they're saying like, see all you urban s were making fun of us. or a Christmas for our choices are choices right now really good and and the thing is like you never know how this stuff is going to go and you know we were reaching a point think a critical point in like an La know like I think public transit was going in the direction I like to see. More public transit when I go when I, go down there. I I I, I D- the public transit. I. Like it. I'd love to see people more people do it, and now it's not a safe time to be on public transit you know and so I think it really hit that that momentum and all take a while for it to come back but you know it all I can tell you is it it'll keep changing. And and the main thing is the know where you why you made the decisions like what does is we're made for you and that it really is flexible and cities or what we make them. You know they they really are. So it's worth looking at them and seeing how we got to where we are. You can change them in the future. And there's a great section here that I just loved it. It's all about designed by government mandate again and talks about the role that rules and regulations even taxes plan the shape of buildings and in some cases, entire city skylines a telltale about that. So this thing that you can think of like if you picture Paris other than picturing like the Arctic home for the or the Eiffel Tower, you probably picture a building with like a mansard roof, which is like the roof line is lower than the top of the building. So the sure it begins to slope back. And there's this dormer this like this little window that POPs out of the of the roof and we think of it as like what it's beautiful French architecture you know. But the reason why that is the way it is is because there was a certain point where the there was there was a difference in taxes depending on how high your Building Watch, and if any of you could prove the roof line was this high you pay taxes and then the people would still want the space and so they would add an attic room which wasn't really it was above. The roof line is an and an created that dormer and that shape and that that mansard roof became fashionable it sort of it spread out into the world. which didn't have those tax implications that that made it exist in the first place but they're all kinds of things like this, like there used to be a brick tax in in England and so the number of bricks you had in your house was how much tax you paid, and so therefore, bricks got really big because. Because they wanted to charge less than tax be be responsible for less taxes becau because they had fewer bricks and then eventually like the taxes caught up and said, it was okay. The size of the breakfast mattered and what went back down. So you can. You can map you know like the. The era of a building in parts of England based on the size of the bricks because it, it reflected the taxes of the time. Yet even makes me think of here in Los Angeles how city regulations until very recently of made for extremely dull skyline because there was this law on the books that said that every building over so many stories had to have a flat roof and a helipad for emergency responders to land on, which is why you don't see anything like Chrysler building or Transamerica building in Los Angeles apparently. I did not know that one of the reasons why you see like A. The. Shape of the Empire State building was because it was supposed to be a morning tower for loans to go on because it was built in this time period where Zeppelin's we're going to be the way that we got around and you know as I still the mental the loss of the Zeppelin in the world. But but yeah, the shapes of buildings are you know like we often think that they're just about are there just about you know fashion but they all there were tons of considerations that went into to the design of things and it's just one of the ways that delightful. By the way I mentioned the TRANSAMERICA building, I have to ask you about that because right there in your backyard of San Francisco I, think of it as this most iconic symbol of the city like right up there with the Golden Gate. Bridge. Alcatraz. I never knew until I. Read this book how controversial it is or tons of people including architects who absolutely hate that bill needed it. With the TRANSAMERICA building, hated it more than than they do now so I think at the Transamerica pyramid at the time was that it was sort of erected during the height of modernism. So you think of Blake, a modern skyscraper it's this sort of like a cereal box with graph paper put on it. It's like it's a square building it's glass it's like. It's like there's no wasted space. There's no fussy. Is just does it Straub in? It's clean. It looks good and it was a type of Mars and that was fashionable at the time. We'll. The TRANSAMERICA pyramid is like the opposite of that even though it has like modern construction in terms of its concrete and stuff, it has this pyramid tops of there's two hundred feet of functionless space just to finish out the shape of the pyramid in modern is architects is thought it was like insulting, you know like it. was like really like they were offended by its existence and also it has the sort of awkwardness to make it work like if you notice, it's not a true pyramid at has these little ears that stick out from it. You know and one side of it is the is the is elevator tower and one side of it is stairs and you know it. So it's not an elegant shape of a pyramid has these weird little additions and they're just like why? If you'RE GONNA make it appear in. May Appear Pyramid if you'RE GONNA make it this like monstrosity Lynn, let it go. You know they just were offended by its existence also it was like it was in a neighborhood if North Beach, which all like three story victorians like there is no other building like it. Really it was really the first really changed the character of that neighborhoods. They're all these reasons why architects and and neighborhood groups just hated the thing. And it was also like the the effort itself was like the TRANSAMERICA company really wanted to make an icon they wanted to make it their logo. You know they you know in answer when you're talking about your city, you're like, why should a city be? Subject to some companies logo like. But in the end, it goes up. People see how it interacts with the city. It becomes a symbol of the city. One of the things that's really great about it is like if you look down Columbus Avenue, it really creates this sort of like perspective of look of a vanishing point perspective. It's really kind of a lovely and dramatic and. Eventually people just get used to it and becomes part of the city and people soon, forget that the a opposed it, and then later on, you know twenty five years later they say it's the best built the building in the city. Happens that way. Well, before we go one things that fans of the show know about you as that, you're a man who has vexed by vaccine. In particular ugly municipal flags are the bane of your existence I wonder you've been at this for a while. Have you started to appreciate them yet is a little bit like a John Waters Movie. Is there a certain beauty in the hideous nece? Can can flag be so bad that it becomes beautiful? Well, I do think that's true. They can become so bad they become beautiful is the meeting with the with the with the city flags was I my assertion was that I light city flax I like to see them like the way it's usually well in Chicago and DC and if you didn't see. Your city flag because your city flag was probably poorly designed and people didn't like it, and so there was this sort of like call to arms, redesign your flags or take out your ugly flag and just put it out there, and if it's yours, you love it and that's great and it was just it was kind of a combination of both and what what would have been proud to see is there's been like two hundred redesigns of municipal city flags as people have been thinking about this more and more and I know this because I get written a note about every one of 'em when it happens. I get the I get the emails and the tweets about it in. But yeah, I mean one of the ones in the example in the Ted talk that I gave was Milwaukee and Milwaukee to me. You know it ranks really poorly it's a big mess of different symbols. It was put together. You know very strangely to sort of to please everybody in it sort of grandma. But as I've looked at it more and more and more I'm like. I I'm kind of used to it. It's kind of charming, its ugliness and so that one has grown in my steam overtime. Grew on you. Well let your freak flag fly. I. Guess. Again, this book is called the ninety nine percent invisible city of field guide to the hidden world of every day design you can also listen to ninety nine percent invisible wherever you listen to podcasts or at ninety nine percent invisible dot com Roman Mars. Thanks for coming back. This was great it was my pleasure I. It. Thanks again to Roman Mars for returning to the podcast order his book, the ninety nine percent invisible city a field guide to the hidden world of everyday design on Amazon audible or wherever books are sold. You can listen to ninety nine percent invisible wherever you listen to podcasts or at ninety nine percent invisible dot com follow Roman and the show on twitter at at Roman Mars and at ninety nine Pi Org, and be sure to check out the whole lineup of Radio Tokyo podcasts at Radio Topa Dot, FM? If you enjoyed today's podcast be sure to subscribe to us on Apple podcasts and Raden. Review us. While you're there, five star ratings in detailed reviews are one of the best ways for new listeners to discover the show. You can also follow us on facebook or on twitter at at kick ASS news pod and recommend us to your friends on your media for more fun stuff visit kick ass. News. Dot Com and I welcome your comments, questions and suggestions at comments at kick ASS News Dot Com for now I'm Ben Mathis and thanks for listening to kick ASS news.
"You're listening to the. Monocle twenty four in association with Switzerland Tourism. Switzerland tourism is the proud partner of the urbanized monocle twenty four. When you're traveling now or planning ahead, look to Switzerland to find cities that are a buzz with life, and never far from the refreshing com of nature. Architecture Great Food and rich culture, just some of the reasons. Why did he break can make the perfect weekend. But who says all of that can't come with a hearty side of relaxation and natural wonder to. Start. Your journey on my Switzerland Dot Com. I and welcome to Monaco. Twenty fours the urban Est. The show all about the cities we live in I'm Andrew Talk Coming up on today's program if you do have the necessary space, the meagre investment of a bird feeder and Byrd bath, and the seed and water that goes in them will pay off better than any streaming subscription. We're not the only inhabitants of cities so this week we decided to talk about some of the urban wildlife that lives in the places that we call home. We hear from a watching enthusiast who took advantage of Empty Parisian Bruce. To hone in on his passion here about the dog drinking network in London setup to quench thirst, pooches on walks, and even turn I focused legislation in the US, insuring that new buildings are more bird friendly over more ahead in the next thirty minutes right here on the east with me and talk. So welcome to this week's episode. We start by looking to the sky well sort of. Urban birdwatching is a passion shared by city dwellers across the globe for many is also a chance to rediscover their own cities through different perspective. This is certainly being true for Antony Eugene May in a who is the CO founder of the architecture and design practice cut woke studios. COMPARIS-, an avid bird spotting enthusiast when the world entered into lockdown. It provided him with the perfect opportunity to stroll through the city's empty parks, and along boulevards as never before the result window birds, an urban bird-watching guide produced during lockdown Anthony thanks for joining us you say about your guide, the being an architect and your love birds a similar in a way. Can you explain that yet? Somehow for me? Both loving architecture and birdwatching is about being open to the. The world being like very sensitive to older spaces and the movement that happens around us, and to be always aware of that for me to also away to never be bored, because I'm kind of beer in a city mid whenever I go in nature super happy too, so somehow it something like that, so you're in Paris, are you in the center of the city so I do live in. And so I'm very aware of what type of common birds is possible to see from a window basically. And this guy is kind of a selection of the fifty five birds that are pretty easy to see from window from anywhere embarrass, but I've also put two. Three of them are pretty rare, but are very exciting to birdwatchers. Tell. I have a tiny terrified of in the center of an all my terrace I. There are two bird feeders now that lures in the birds. Are you luring them in with food as well? Do you have a place where you can feed the birds? How you seeing all of these amazing flying creatures? Will I do that in winter, but mostly in winter it's really nice for the birds to some food, but when you put that in summer and spring, it's disruptive for them. Because then it puts in their mind that they don't have to really look for food, which is a really good for evolution somehow, but how do I see them most of the time? Hear them because you. See The bird, of course you, you hear them, and also most of the time I see a dot in the sky. You know a kind of a silhouette that passes it'll detail and from there I kind of know what that is. That's more the way only Fella, just sea birds than like from close you know on a feeder and tell me what some of the more unusual birds that you have spotted then in Paris, you said there are some which a more rarities what would be. Some examples know who hell. Yes, there is the wolf creeper. This is a infringe Could. Let. That's like a very rare bird, and that is a very tiny, extremely beautiful. It flies like a butterfly. It has a very erratic flights, and it's grey and red, so winning opens the wings. Grey Red Red Red grey. Read Gray. It's quite amazing to watch. And there was one in two, thousand, three or two thousand four I. Don't remember, embarrass on the walls of the of one of the buildings, and so that's still very dear to us. Old Parisian birdwatchers and Tummy you out most weekends with your trying to these birds. I go to bars also like. I'm sure boring. I'm sure you're a very exciting man, but I just intrigued spotted fifty five I personally within my group of because I do that since I'm very young I do that since I'm like six or eight with a group of friends that are very professionals like some of them are like in the natural. History Museum in Paris are liking the professionally doing that basically, and according to them me I'm GRANDPA. GRANDPA watcher meaning. I do that on my holidays. You see what I mean like. This is a kind of every day. Luke out in the city somehow, but I don't really actively do that. I would go like six times a year. Maybe one of my friends in the countryside next to Paris and go watch some specific birds, because we know it's there, but like they would go all the time. And also there is a fantasy I think about birdwatching where people think we go to nature and things like that, but most of the exciting birds you see them by the giant trash. That's where most for knows spend their time. You're painting a very interesting picture of the bird spot different, too. I thought tell me many people said. During the periods of lockdown European cities, they became more aware of nature around the time to as you noted the birds outside their windows. Have you been more aware I have your friends being suddenly more interested in your hobby? Yeah, most of. My friends know me as the guy who has binoculars when we go away and holidays or in another country. But suddenly they would sit down in their flatten here. Two birds that would also listen to the birds, so I received another messages that was like Oh okay I listened to that and record them and send me a message or take picture like A. Shitty picks allies picture from afar, and they will. What does that bird you? Just tell me completely random question. You obviously quite concerned about the image of the birds spot. Is a French hipster bird spotting seen, or are you the only member of that group? Oh has no. When you say that in reminded me one of the time I went to. A, House party like super super cool and I slept at the place with this group of birdwatchers and the next morning, the Sunday around ten, the all woke up and said Chew. We go to that Dung place and go see that bird. That's not. And finally, if people want to see your drawings and the project, where can they go and say well? We did a French and an English version of the guidelines, and you can download both of them from the website of my architecture and design studio that is called. Cut Work, so you can go to cut work studio. Dot Com slash window birds. Antonin Yuji. My. Who's the CO founder of works? Studio there. This is the best. Now there is a darker reality for the bird populations in our cities, particularly in high density areas where to blast buildings covered in windows end up becoming deadly weapons for our flying friends, who mistake them as continuation of the sky well, but what of the world will be delighted to know that this month? The United States House of Representatives has passed the bird. Safe Buildings Act. This will mandate that public buildings will be designed or altered in bird, friendly manner to help reduce avian fatalities. To find more. Monaco's Collartoo Rebecca spoke to Christine Shepherd. WHO's the director of the gloss? Collisions program the American Bird Conservancy, let's have a listen. Thank you very much for joining us today here on monocle twenty four now. We wanted to speak to you because of this new legislation. If we can call it, it's the bird. Safe Buildings Act. That has been passed by the United States House. Of Representatives Representatives, but before we dig into exactly what that means in practice, can you maybe explain for our listeners? That might not be aware of just how dangerous for birds the built fireman actually is. We're talking about you know up to one billion birds that die each year in collisions against buildings up to one billion is just in the united, states. There are many more that die on other continents unfortunately. The problem that is gaining awareness, but many people almost anybody to talk to. You has experienced bird ceric. They've heard a bird hit a window. They've seen it at bird on the sidewalk, but everyone thinks it's a rare event. When in fact you think about how many birds are hitting buildings for everyone even kids to have had that experience, so it's happening. All the time glasses reflective. It shows birds would appear to be you know good habitat for them to fly into instead. They fly into the glass wall. People don't realize that they can't Steve Glass. Either people learn the concept of glass when they're small, presumably mostly by bumping into not terribly hard. Both kids and adults are hurt running into glass doors for example every year. People learn that they're accused that. Tell them wear glasses. They might see dust on the window. They see a rectangular frame and they know that that means it's a transparent or reflective barrier. Burns never understand that concept. They take what they see literally and well. Birds can learn if they don't die. On impact `bout local pieces of glass, they never can generalize, and that's one of the reasons that the majority of birds that die here are migrants that are flying between. Reading grounds and their wintering rats. They can't all of them. Fly All the way the songbirds. Go in stages, and after they've flown a distance, they have to come down. They have to refuel and as they're flying around looking for food. Can Fly into the reflection of trees, just as easily as they can play into a tree. So, tell me a bit more than about this bill. The aim of it is basically to reduce bird mortality right by asking or demanding for change at least in public buildings. Yes, and this is something that congressman quickly. Has Been Working on since he I want to Congress in the beginning of the Obama Administration, and this is the first time that this measure has gained traction and I think it's probably because in the intervening channel eleven years we've been successful at working with individual cities and counties than occasionally states to pass legislation, so there's a lot more awareness on the part of our representatives in Congress that their constituents are interested in this issue, and that their constituents have been willing to take action on the issue. So. We were able to get quite a good coalition of both Emma. Critic and Republicans congresspeople. Dale get this bill passed the assembly and tell me down a bit more about what it means in practice then as That existing buildings will have to adapt to more bird, friendly infrastructure to prevent these collisions, or does it only apply to new buildings? How is it going to play out? In practical terms, it only applies to new buildings or building undergoing significant renovation so far there hasn't been a requirement anywhere for new buildings to remediate except in Canada, and that's really because you can design a new building to be bird friendly with really no increase in cost, but it always is by to cost money to remediate existing buildings. So the way the bill is written, it requires the general services. Administration, which is the Federal Agency that owns all buildings. To create a set of guidelines that will be used in the design of Billy's in the future. And I'm curious to hear more about you know. What are some of those board? Friendly Design techniques what can be implemented to guarantee a safer built environment for them? There are a lot of techniques and luckily. Many of them are the same techniques that you can use to make your building more energy efficient. In fact, the General Services Administration has already produced a number of bird friendly buildings, the not with birds in mind, and that's something that is always helpful to point out that you know you designed this building. In Houston, because it's very hot air, and so you included. A sun shade structure or a building designed with a second skin so that it traps air and makes it easier to control temperature when there are swings from maximum to minimum in the fall in the spring. So there are types of glass that can used that incorporate signals that birds conceit, which basically makes them approach and then decide that they can't fly through that. And Change Flight Direction There are things like louvers symbol. Insect screens work extremely well. They almost eliminate the view of reflection, and the birds still happens to hit a window advances them a little bit so that they don't strike with the same kind of force. The key is to think about this before you start your design. If you design a new building. And then he was signed somebody in your office to make it bird friendly. They'll simply look for a different type of glass, and that can be more expensive, but if you start in the beginning thinking about birds. You can design the building so that it's more energy efficient, and so that it's friendly. There have been a couple of new buildings in New York. They're very exciting. The New Statue of Liberty Museum includes a bird friendly glass, and it's very difficult to even notice that it's therapy. People seemed to look straight past it because they're looking out at the statute. The Jacob Javits Convention Center had to replace all their glass when they did that. They asked the architects to make the building more energy efficient, because it's a big glass building and they did that understanding that they could at the same time. Make the building. UNLE by incorporating. A sun shade structure in the glass itself that the birds would be able to see, and the result is that they are no longer even on the list of bird killing delays in Newark they used to be at the top, and they've reduced their energy costs significantly. So this can be a win-win. People are often afraid. That bird friendly design is going to be an ugly buildings. It's going to mean you have to hire a lot of people in order to do administration, and this really has not been the case starting with San Francisco in two thousand eleven. They have not had to build ugly buildings. They've not had to hire additional staff. They've been so successful that least a dozen. Other communities in California have followed suit often with lightly stricter regulations that was Dr Christine, shepherd, who is the director of the Gloss Collisions? Program the American bird seven say speaking to our very own. COLLARTOO Rebecca. Now in London some park facilities still remain closed due to social distancing restrictions which compose a few challenges. If you're out for a walk with your pooch, it's getting hot and they will get thirsty face with this difficulty London. Dog Owners have united to create the dog drinking network, an informal network of clean drinking water bowls outside their homes left for our four legged friends. One Who's Georgina Godwin at a springer Spaniel Bella ventured out north London to investigate for us. Ok Bella. We're lucky enough to live equidistant between two to my mind of the most beautiful open spaces in London hamsters heath, and Rose Hill leading on to regents park, which means that Bella homes energetic gets great walk every day. As long as I've discharged my radio GT's early, we can hang out in the park. And of course the weather has been absolutely glorious, but in this time of corona virus. All tops have been shut off, said the drinking fountains are not working and all of the places where you would normally stop to get a drink a shot. So thought it, a little thing called the dog drinking network because I came across a house near the he's, and they put out a job, and it was just so useful, and you could tell dogs from miles brown knew exactly where is come, and it's been an absolute godsend for us because if you carry water around with you, it's heavy, and it's difficult and unfortunately likes to drink straight from the bottle, which means that we can't share, so she gets very as you can probably hear right now. She's panting and she's very very halt, so we are trudging up the hill to where we know going to be water. One of the other issues of coronavirus lockdown is of course that the parks have been absolutely rhymed and people that would never normally use them do particularly people, jogging and exercising and biking, basically getting in the way in fact what wants to say to them is. I'm here when it's raining and horrible, this belongs to me. cushy say that, but when does feel a little bit of resentment? Now, we're on the heath and I went. Say exactly where we are. Because this is quite a secret corner and for me. I have to sort of move ten or fifteen minutes to get here so by the time we get here. My dog is really I. You're lucky enough not to do that, but it's very hard with new kind of access to water in this. Carry it yourself. Indeed, it is very hard. There are some pumps across the way different ones, but they're not fresh and clean, but fortunately my dog hasn't gone towards him, but some dogs do drian back. Now there is a family that lives just up here. Just off where we're standing now and they always have water outside. She's wonderful got to huge bills art and she refreshes it every day I think. And that's a very very kind and generous and thoughtful thing to do I think we should do that. I'm going to go home and put water outside my house right now. Now just coming up to where we know there's going to be awesome. And these very kind people put it out everyday. She's just lovely. Tougher drink. Change both. Big Shake, and that's why adopt drinking network I. Think is absolutely essential Hashtag doctrine network. For Monaco in northwest London climb to Gina Godwin and that is balance. Note the Squirrel Bella. School. Thanks to Georgina Goatman, and of course to better, too. Finally unstaged program we turn our focus back to the garden specifically to Monaco's Andrew. Mueller's very own as lockdown meant. He's made a few friends with the urban wildlife. The comes to visit. Lived in London for a very long time without thinking of it as any sort of wildlife sanctuary, give otake pigeons then about ten years back bought a house with a garden. I'm aware that things being as they are to declare oneself as garden owner may be offering oneself up to be among the first against the wall when the revolution comes, I am genuinely sympathetic to those who have recently had no easy means of escaping the walls. They have doubtless felt like climbing up, but I maintain that much of what I'm about to observe is available to some extent to anyone with access to a park or even a window in any city anywhere, and if you do have the necessary space, the meagre investment of a bird feeder and a bird bath, and the seed and water that goes in them will pay off better than any streaming subscription. I have not yet got to the point of meticulously noting bird sightings in a dedicated notebook vo given another few weeks of lockdown. Anything is possible, but for the purposes of this monologue I have with the aid of a pocket-sized guide to British Garden. Birds counted every species. I can recall seeing from the window. I'm looking out of over the top of this laptop. It comes to twenty one in sizes from Spiro to Sparrowhawk, and in all the clues in the name colors of redbreasts, blue tits. Yellowhammer is gone inches and blackbirds. This is not bad for a suburb of a big city and doesn't include the lone white cheeked Toco newly a denizen of East Africa, which is known to be at lodge here in London. Eleven or the freakish appearance. The other summer of a diamond dove a silver, feathered, red-eyed native Australia much like you narrator. anthropomorphic is an idol and unscientific pursuit, but if you watch long enough, you notice a range of mannerisms and behaviors defining different species. Sparrows, a busy and sociable and cheerful, descending from their nest in next doors roof in a chattering mob. Robbins passive aggressive loners often given to watching you gardening in a manner. That suggests they were about to issue with a ticket. Would pigeons pompous yet. Hapless wobbling like drunk judges, starlings, an angry family on holiday, magpies, leather, jacket, and teenage hoodlums, forever, preening and brawling, generally making terrible terrible Din blackbirds strangely irritable. They do a lot of leaf hurling. Any green urban space will also be home to surprising amounts of non airborne creatures. If you've room to accommodate the most modest volume of still water, you'll be found by grateful frogs newts, and if you have inaugurated a bird feeder, you'll have learned that it's not just birds you're feeding. The gray squirrelled one of which is hanging by its hind toes from a branch, scoffing seeds from the feeder as I. write gets a bad rap since its introduction to Britain in the nineteenth century, it has been blamed for waging and winning a turf war against its native cousin. Not About to suggest that I have never cursed local grays for digging up the lawn, ransacking strawberry plants, picking claim the apple tree. Oh, burying loads of random nonsense, then forgetting about it last spring while doing routine weeding I discovered a potato patch, never planted, but with G. recognition that I may of submitted to some sort of squirrel strain of Stockholm, syndrome, I have grown fond of the furtive little Weirdos of whom there are now so many here that. That I wonder at what point I am technically operating a ranch, they are genuinely more fun to watch than most television. The twitchy hyper alertness puts me in mind of a gang of Ned dwells about to rob a bank vault which I suppose is what a bird feeder pretty much is. If you're a squirrel, their title chases around tree trunks, so jousts along the fence can be read in this context as disputes about the divisions of the loot. And this still big a game than that some years a better for Fox's than others. This year has been quiet. Though promisingly lodge whole has been tunneled under the fence. There was one fox a few years back who regularly spent warm afternoons cold up asleep on the garden table the thrill of seeing something so wild somewhere so team never faded. I do presently have less warm feelings towards the mouse behind the sunroom, skirting board forever, evading or dismantling the steel wool baffles. I've stuffed into the gaps, but what with one thing and another I'm starting to quote. Enjoy the battle of wits for monocle twenty four. I'm Andrew Moore. Well it's been hard. Know that as being more nature in cities or just kind of. It in recent months but I think lots of people have suddenly woken up to the fact that these animals who share the space with us a rather important they can change are feeling about the day. I know for me. I live right in the heart of London and you can sometimes open your door of an evening and see a fox scurrying away. You have buds. Come and visit on the tiny tiny roof terrace we have. Take a dog to the park. You see all sorts of wildlife, and at Monaco in our H. Q.. During the shutdown, we even had some mice who tried to take up residency, and I was even suspicious, so they were starting their own magazine, which I thought might be called mouthful, but they seem to have left anyway, so there's one piece of wildlife we're not so keen on. Bass we go forward. It's another one of the things we want to hold onto this awareness of what's flying in scarring around us so lovely to hear all of today's reports, and also America is doing something to protect is avian friends, but that's all for this edition of the arsonist. Today's episode was produced by Collartoo, Rabelo and David. Stevens and David also edited the show and play you out of this week's episode. His vote pack with birds of a feather. We rock together. Thank you for listening city lovers. Bank.
#244: PRO TALK with Peter Yost
"It's heat flow through buildings. Drives them out. So if you reduce the heat flow through building and you don't men's the moisture better well the moisture is gonna stay in materials longer. Welcome to the fine home. Talk podcast our regular discussion with building industry professionals. This is senior editor patron mccomb. I'm joined by building science sites for host and producer. Jeff Rose Peter Consultant presents on building performance and building science matters. You can email your questions to f. H We podcasts. At Taunton DOT com. You can find the fine home building. Pro-talk podcast and the original fine homebuilding podcast at final building. Dot Com slash podcast. You can also feedback and ask questions there to here. It is such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for agreeing to being the PODCAST. Oh It's my pleasure Patrick. Jeff it's Have Long and very satisfactory relationship with Taunton press and fine home building so I love. The era is still involved. It's awesome are you healthy. Your family okay. Are you able to work? Yeah thanks for asking. Yeah I have you know I do. A bunch of different things in my business and so some work is pretty much on hold for the indefinite future but About half my work is still cranking along so I'm just shy of sixty five and so I was thinking I'm going to work fulltime this year. Till December thirty first and part time next year. I think I'm going to be working part time this year and full-ti- next year. Yeah so can you explain what you do for a living because you wear a lot of hats that can you tell me what various things you do are please. Yeah so I teach train and some people say well. What's the difference so training you go? You say your piece and it doesn't matter what you say because you're gonNA leave the next day and the tough thing about teaching like I. I teach a fall semester course at Yale on buildings in the night. An now teaching a A spring course at keene state for the Department of Architecture and the difference with teaching is that you know you there for fourteen weeks. So what you say. One week has got to connect what stay on the Tenth Week? So it's a whole different ballgame and so I- split my time between teaching and training and then it's sort of similar When I do consulting because if it's new buildings I'm looking at designing SPEC review at its existing buildings. I'm doing building investigations or building assessments. So and they asked You to evaluate a new building or a plan building. What are you looking for specifically as a great question so most of my work is hydrothermal. So it's looking at the way that heat and water moves in different expressions in on through buildings and so I'll be looking for control layer continuity in the water management to Air Thermal and vapor. Can I ask a dumb question? Sure shouldn't the architects who designed this building of considered those things already. Yeah okay so the heart of it you know. People have to pick on architects and it. You know it's not just the architecture profession which has sort of a an educational deficit when it comes to building science and building science principles. It's it's we're guilty across the board. I mean I was a Builder remodeler with several of my brothers. I have ten brothers and sisters and many of them involved in construction industry. But you know we we We turned off our brains. We used to say multiple years of college down the drain. Because we still can't figure out how the water moves through the flashing 's on but we built pretty much the way my oldest brother's father-in-law belt and that was a guy named Joe Pru. It was like a seven generation french-canadian framer and you. You did the way Joe told you how to do it. So we don't have much or enough education about building science principles but it's not just architects that there's plenty enough Lack of education. Or if you want. I'm a Lutheran Minister Son Guilt to go around. Did your brothers father-in-law get it right. Through the many generations of training he had. Yeah so that's a good question too because I'm there's this tension between how we used to manage Particularly bulk water before we had sticky stuff right and so before we had sticky stuff or or not that many. We had asphalt liquefied asphalt. That was the sticky stuff And so before. We had a lot of polymers on we had to rely upon the way that materials managed water in different ways like stone compared to concrete. You know stone is water. Impermeable concrete's porous sieve. On and deflecting. Things you know so without sticky stuff you gotta be really careful about how water moves over surfaces off surfaces. Well we get sticky stuff and then we SORTA turn our brains off. And then we say oh. Let's just let the sticky stuff does now we can. Do you know flush designs without any overhangs and so can you do a building that sheds water with flush up union overhangs plus design yet? Just really a lot harder. And now you're really dependent on sticky stuff so Yeah we a lot of what Joe taught us Made Sense but he thought that we were building the same way we were today compared to one hundred years ago. And that's where we get into trouble because a lot. The physics hasn't changed but a lot of our materials have changed do. So what's what's the name your company and ensure yeah so I worked at building Green Here in Brattleboro for quite a while. I worked at Building Science Corporation sort of in between with Joe. Can Betsy Pettit Just recently I decided that I was getting old cranky enough that I needed to be on my own so I am left building green and started a company called building right with right having W in the front sort of a play on words like house rate. Yeah there's a house right under a millwright. There's a cartwright they're all people who have a craft related to the object the cart or the mill or in this case the building so I thought it was incredibly clever and but I but there was a guy in Australia had building right DOT COM W. So I had to put a hyphen and hyphen just likes drive. Everybody absolutely crazy including me but anyway I really liked the name of the company and yes so I'm a one man band and as my wife says you know all the different hats is playing to your attention deficit. So you know you into this crazy business. I was. I was teaching High School in Hampton New Hampshire Physics Chemistry and biology. And in the summers I was a grunt on my brother's jobsites and First Year of teaching I was twenty two which which was cool because was teaching science and I have one class where to nineteen year olds one girl and one boy and yeah. I was in either way under over my head one or the other but you know in the summers. I got to work with my brothers and after about four years of teaching fulltime. I just thought you know my brothers. I don't love them all the time but their way more lovable than these. Teenagers are so I actually Continued to work kind of partnering with Brothers because I opened up a technical climbing school and I I described it as myself. Included era Basically I just was really poor and was Iraq jock and then when I needed money. I went begging and screaming to one of my brothers jobsites but eventually I became a full-time builder remodeler and and health problems. That meant that I couldn't be a fulltime carpenter anymore and ended up back in school so it was horrible to lose the trade but I've never heard anyone say that You know I was just lucky enough that I I ended up back in school and still able to research buildings so I connected the two things that were never connected for which was academics and job sites And I stumbled across the National Association Members Research Center. I didn't even know even existed and eventually got a job interview there and got paid to do all the stuff and read all the stuff that I fell asleep on the job site all day. I would take a copy of Fine Home Building Journal. Light Construction and fall asleep reading it and now I was getting paid to read that stuff and figure it out. So you're you and your Buddy Steve Basic present all over the country disgusting Disgusting Building Science Principles. Can you tell me a little bit about those talks? And and and who sponsors them and what folks get out of that well let me start by saying we. Try Not to be disgusting. Sometimes when you put me in Stephen the same room. That's where it goes. You know I APOLOGIZE FOR NO FREUDIAN SLIP SINCE. You've already interviewed yeah. We met a building. Science Corporation and Stephen I have very different backgrounds in many different ways but we both love buildings and you know we both are pretty tied to our families and after we actually both left building science corporation about Saint Time and Had A consulting firm with my brother Nathan who also had to building Science Corporation. But but after that sort of period Stephen. I just continued to do a lot together if he needed work with building science. He would call me if I needed to find a really high performance architect. I've call Steve. Steve was on the editorial board for Building. Green and environmental building news on he was one of the first green building advisors when we develop that publication and online for a. Taunton press was facing a lot for them right. Yeah I'm still. I'm still technically technical director for green building adviser. I do a once a month. A building science blog. That but Steve's the one you know he called me up one day and he said you know. I think we're going to be able to do some building science trainings through Huber. They're really interested in that intersection of new codes and more air tightness and their new products. That you know blend together. Structural panels and air and water management. And I thought sure Steve. You know that sounds interesting. I I gave it like no chance of ever happening. But he really stuck with it and worked with Uber in one day out a IBS international builders show. I met with a couple of people on at Hebron. We were often running with this homebuilding crossroads. Where the crossroads are where the codes and building science and high-performance all sort of overlap. So that was four years ago and you know we just keep adding more markets that were going to and You know we had a couple of requirements that it not be just the Huber show on and that they couldn't review our power points before we. I mean we had to be sure that we didn't make non building disgusting choices in our power points but yeah and so we had a lot of autonomy. They said if you're shells for us it won't work you know you. People have to understand that your trainings are independent. Even though they're sponsored by product manufacturers and that was the other thing we had to have a group of product manufacturers. It couldn't be just UBER. So when we worked all out You know we're getting really good. Traction with both builders and architects for these trainings and the focus is pretty much new construction. And we'd like to cover retrofit. We'd like to cover non non residential buildings but there seems to be plenty need in the single family detached new construction world to to get around so thought of fun and those are free for the participants right. Yeah Lot of underwriting. From the sponsors experimented with could we get a higher show up percentage if we charged a small fee but the logistics are just too difficult and on it it it proved to be not a good way to try to have a certain number of people that say Oh for Free? I can go and then the day shows up in their. They're busy and you know there. Were very careful about time of year and the day that we pick so we found that that was way more influential than whether people paid or not. Can you tell me Your top? Five building diagnostic tools. And what you use them for. I really deep question. I know but if I'd be great. Yeah so what's funny about. This is that I'm teaching brand. New Course at keene state called building performance assessment. And it's almost all architects. They're juniors and seniors Peter Tempo used to be the long term building science professor at Keene State Really Wonderful Guy who went to Umass amherst and has a PhD in physics But anyway when he retired they picked another old guy like me to stand in we developed. It's four credit course and one of the things is the students will come out with either a level of awareness or actually some practical skills with a whole group of tools and of course the first one is a digital pressure gauge on. That's a key part of a blower door but there's actually a lot of ways. You can use a digital pressure gauge to understand how buildings work beyond just its role in blower door Moisture meters you know they can measure the moisture content of different building materials and then high groner's which measure the moisture content of air masses. And I use Hobo Hobo data loggers quite a bit. They're interesting because a number of times when you go to do a building investigation year there for a snapshot and you can't always figure out what happened with the building by going and visiting once that snapshot many be enough so I would say about thirty percent about a third of building designations. I do I GIVE. I give an initial assessment. Here I think is going on but you have to let me leave some stuff. Behind to collect data. On So Hobo. Data loggers collect information on moisture content on temperature relative humidity temperature So sometimes it's you want to give the client what you think the The solution or the problem identification and the solution are in one four our visit but not nuts. That's quite often. Not How simply going to be Infrared camera. I use that quite a bit on both for an all of this is about trying to track the three as the heat moves through building in the four ways that water moose rebuilding. So you know. It's it's neat because to me. When I was teaching Physical Science and Physics in high school I really liked you. Know the investigation. Part of it and Now I just to do that. Exclusively on building so the the physical you know. It's kind of funny. 'cause Steve will say yeah you know. He's not professor joost. He's just a former high school teacher. Talking about science you know but but really the sciences in some ways. Not all that complicated. It's just the way that the principals get expressed in buildings is complex and variable from from building to building to climate the climate. Yes so those are the basic tools. Although you know funny that I'm wrapping up the scores. At keene state and the campus is closed. So this four credit practical field course halfway through the semester. We're online so like what the hell do we do? You know these kids were just learning how to use a lot of the tools. So it's interesting. Is there a lot of them? Their final project is assessing building for many of them their home. Because that's where we got sent And they have no tools right. So what are they doing is in years and brain incident? Yeah Yeah exactly. They they don't have a blower door. They don't have access to an infrared camera so it's Kinda interesting that a lot of the building investigation stuff is visual inspection. And that's a lot of what they're accomplishing. Now it'd be great if they could add to that and some of them really are chafing at the bit like man. We were interested in learning the tools. So it's frustrating for them frustrating for me but there's an awful lot that's about tracking stuff with your brain in your eyes for the clients. You consult with both new projects. An problem buildings. Do you feel like they have any idea about building science. They have any understanding the mechanisms at work in their buildings at all So to to be a little bit gentle on both builders and architects have a whole bunch of lenses through which they have to look at their project and while essential understanding how moisture and energy flows in around in. Three buildings is just one of the lenses. It's it's not one you can skip. So they've got an awful lot on their plate but interestingly from the high school level up through the graduate level and I I teach at all levels from the local high school here in Brattleboro to their carpentry classes all the way to graduate school at Yale every single time the issue comes up of billing science trainings. It's like the curriculums already full. You have an elective course. But we just don't have the time of the bandwidth it's like you can't treat building science as an elective. So that's the underlying problem. Is that while? It's a topic that people recognize should be part of the mix. It's not treated as a base line. Or you know everybody needs to know this. That's interesting to me like if you create the ideal curriculum right for architects. What would you take out of their their traditional field of study to put more building science emphasis in its place? Couldn't you spare something? Yeah Wow I'm going to get myself in hot water. In a number of different ways twin so are there aspects of building performance that we could consider elective as opposed to essential. Yeah that's a really tough one because You know even for interior designers like because I taught we developed a curriculum called regain when I was working with the US Green Building Council while building green and we even found building science connections at interior designers needed to make I like the way Steve Approaches it. He says look when when you asked me to design something just tell me what your priorities and constraints are on like. He had a client while we were building Science Corporation. Who said okay. We build slab on grade. We always put the domestic hot water. Piping in the slab one of our number one complaints is cooled hot water in the lines so that they have to wait inordinately long to get hot water and they said it's one of our number one customer complaints. You're going to now the told Steve. You'RE GONNA now design all homes so the maximum length of a domestic hot water run from the domestic water tank in the garage to any of the draws is twenty feet or less now some architects would say. I can't do that. That's impossible and Steve said it's just another design constraint. All right now you told me I have to find the physical relationship between the bathrooms the laundry room the kitchen and the hot water tank now does that constrain. My Design. Yeah it does but. I'm still a designer. I'm still creative. I can figure out different ways to design buildings with contract it. Just one more constraint. So I think you know. That's one of the things I love about. Steve is that he just takes whatever you give him and says if you tell me I have to do this. I'll figure out a way to do that on. But you have to help me prioritize right because if hot water is an option not a requirement. Dan I'm going to locate the bathroom. And and you know what we do. In the olden days we took the all the draws for hot water and we stack them and we put them in the center house. Why 'cause copper was really expensive and we have respect for the fact that you know if you you know an older New England homes we would shutdown outer buildings and gather around the hearth at the core. So of course you had to have the plumbing all in one place because is strung out all over the place it would freeze during the winter. So you know it's it's constraints and sometimes the constraints are materials or money or layout but if you look at them as constraints and prioritize in that way it's just part of be part of the design challenge. What do you think the biggest issue facing residential construction is accepting the the president craziness but like what are we getting wrong? What we need to be doing better. Well you know one of my big lenses is the relationship between energy and moisture. You know my big mantra. Is You have to manage them. With equal intensity it's heat flow through buildings dries them out. So if you reduce the heat flow through a building and you don't the moisture better well the moisture is gonNA stay in the materials longer. Maybe long enough to cause a problem so when I was a builder would have been so easy. If someone had just walked up and said you know what every time you reduce energy flow through an assembly you better be managing the moisture better like okay. That makes sense. If it's the heat that Steinem out so in the old days for example the SA- great example in the old days in in in Structural brick buildings where were all of the radiators Labor tucked? Right underneath these Unin insulated brick walls. So all the water would run down the glass and accumulate at the sill. Well that was okay because there were these big ass radiators there and so where the moisture was gathering the most at the sill of the windows. That's right where the heat was. Okay so now we come along and we're going to retrofit that building and we're going to say we're going to take out those radiators and put in a four star system. Okay so could you get the same amount of heat delivered to the space with forced air system as the radiator? Yeah but the force there is not going to focus that energy right underneath that window so a building that lasted one hundred years with that radiator right underneath a window in a mass spring brick building in two years it will fail the brickell start crumbling and it's all because there's just not enough heat flowing there to overcome and dry out the moisture so we've had these relationships in buildings all along. We just didn't have as much respect for them. And now that. We're micromanaging energy flow. We have to micromanage the way truffaut. Another example wood frame buildings you know weatherization crew comes in says. Hey for free. The federal government's going to stuff. Your wall fill cellulose okay. So you're going to go from an hour of one in that would wall to an hour of say thirteen if there's a little water leak underneath the window for a hundred years that little water leak underneath a window may have not caused the problem. There is our one. There's all this heat flowing through right so you come in and you say hey. We're from the Department of Energy. Our job is to stop the energy flow. We're GONNA STOP FULLEST CELLULOSE. So after one hundred years you're not gonNA fail that wall in two years or less because if you manage the energy better you gotta manage the moisture better and it. So it's you know that that's the that's the colonel around which I do all my work Because now it gets complicated. Well how does energy flow? What are the ways? How are the different ways? The water flows But that's the that's the one big connection that everybody in the building industry needs to make that's just not. It's not part of our makeup in a needs to be. Do you think that's an issue of training like you know accepting your seminars with Steve? Like how do people learn this stuff you know like were they get this information? Yes so You know the Internet is both a beautiful in a very scary thing because you know you can. You can even add a lay person. Get yourself into a crap ton of trouble thinking that you understand because you've read you know lots of free material on the Internet so it's both a wonderful resource but it's funny. I have two clients. I'm working with now. One is in Colorado and the other is in Los Angeles and they are green builder and Fine Home Building Junkies. They're like and they're finally working on building their own house or renovating. There aren't house and they so they start to do this stuff and then I get a phone call saying you know what I'm just overwhelmed. I think I understand but there's too much information rather than not enough information. So now I become the filter as opposed to the source right. They're getting it all from somewhere but it's it's how do I turn that wealth of information into the expression in a particular building on and it's both the building and the client right? I mean it's it has to be custom tailored to the individual case right. Yeah and you know. Another mantra of mine is everybody. Needs Adult supervision at some point right I mean I get. I get questions like I don't know and so there are people. I call who are experts in particular area because none of us can be expert in everything? So that's the other thing about working with Steve as you know he he's. He comes across as not humble at all and very full of himself at times. But he really isn't he is very like. Hey I. I admit that there are some things that I that that I need to go in and get somebody to take a look at this for me because we can't be experts in everything so a quickly before regret on time. What here. I'll let you pick the the question to answer. You can tell me about your house or the worst building. Science disaster you've ever seen. I know listeners are going to want to hear what if the same thing? Yeah so so. We moved into this house in two thousand and it was just a dog. Was it's weird house right. It's concrete-block right. Yeah it's concrete block on the first floor. It was built by Masons and get this Mason's that when they got to the top floor. Hey let's build a four gabled Gambro roof assembly. Like pick the most complicated framing you get ever imagined and it shows in their woodwork. That's for sure but so so. That project was really cool because I got to do a room by room retrofit. But one of the lessons learned is if you're trying to continuity of management of air and water room by room is absolutely not the way to do it so on to be comprehensive. You really need to you. Know do a deep energy retrofit on the building a whole. But you know we couldn't afford to do that. We went after it room by room so really cool project. There are several case studies on Green Building Adviser about my house and it's retrofit but what a blast to take what I learned from working at the Research Center in Dan courtly as my mentor. There and Joe St Brick as my Mentor Building Science Corporation Chris Schumacher CODA Ueno. All those guys and figure it out. I remember Joe saying you actually tried that thing. I talked about and the outside of their building. I bet that's heartening job as you told me to do with that. He's okay if it worked. That's great. Yeah so I'm most proud. I think of Both the good things in the mistakes I made on my own building. Are you data logging? It I've done a lot of day logging on the building. Time with regards to radon with regards to moisture doing. Oh Yeah I mean. I learned stuff all the time but I still have floor choice that are in direct contact with masonry in my basement and I every spring right out there with my moisture meter checking to make sure that the way I've managed to works out and that's the other thing about it is sometimes you know you have to admit that you have to get back into buildings to see if what you thought. Work actually did. And that's scary for a lot of is in the building industry going like the last thing to do is to go back into something that you built right because it's terrifying and especially if if no one's saying it's a problem why would you wanna go look for problems right. Yeah Yeah exactly but you you know you need to you. You need to go back in and see how past experiments are working out about the worst building. Sciences asked her. I think that the big nut to crack is that in all of our buildings that are high performance. We bury liquid sealants and pressure sensitive piece of tapes. That are relying on sticky stuff. And we. We're we're saying we're designing hundred-year assemblies. But we are so dependent on those sticky things and we can't inspect them. We can't repair them. We can't replace them and they're buried inside our wall so to me. That's not the biggest disaster but it's the biggest thing that I worry about and I've been a lot of time working on that that's interesting 'cause you're very old school in that approach rate is like that. You're talking about your Brothers father-in-law who had been a builder for seven generations. And he relied on gravity and it kind of brings it full circle like that. Maybe that's the what we should be doing. Well you know. We're asking an awful lot more of our buildings today. We have to ask more of ourselves. That's the disconnect right that man we're pushing our buildings to the absolute high-performance but the question is are we keeping up with that demand and I think that like homebuilding crossroads as part of that effort you know. We have to ask much of our building professionals as we're asking of our buildings because if we're not it's not fair yeah it's been awesome talking to you. Hey One more thing you. You're going to ask about who I would recommend to being please. So there's a guy named Peter Call Sick. He's a Minnesota Building Inspector on great guy and is really dedicated the high performance. So you know there. Aren't that many code officials that I would recommend to be a great interview on on your podcast but you should try to talk to Peter. I will do that. Peter if you're listening calls coming are it would be Pete and repeat you can tell myself Peter. It's been wonderful having you on the show and fortunately that's all the time we have today. Thanks to all of you for joining us and thanks to. Jaffer producing please remember to send us your comments questions gestures F HP PODCAST at Taunton DOT COM and. Please let comment or of. Us Haver listening and on the folks. Podcasts thanks everyone for listening. Thanks guys for joining me. Say Safe. Everybody happy building.
"L believe it or not. We have made it to the final hour. Whether you wanted us to or not, thanks for being a part of the show. Get right back to the calls at eight five five four to seven to eight five. Glenn is up next a hell of Glenn. Hey, paul. I was wondering if you'd had any contact lately with your old associate Bill Lumpkin. Wow. What a great question. It's been a little while I talked to him about a year ago, and I saw a son, more recently than I think he just celebrated his ninetieth birthday, which getting up there. I worked thirty four years at the news. Did you do the same time that bail and other Houston Noel? Remember, max shoemaker maxium acre. Surely one of the great people I've ever worked with way too early. He he had cancer and died believe about twenty five years ago, maybe a little longer and just just a just a dear guy love. I used to have many, many sports conversation with Bill and MAC in the hallways of that old news built in which, you know, is now no longer. Yeah. You know, I was in Birmingham, not long ago down there. And it even though I've been in the frankly, the, the new buildings no longer you being used by all they sold charts company moved to a building down on first avenue north. This appreciate you. Remembering obviously you work there. But I those are such great days of my career, and I the overwhelming Lee large number of people that I know now and work with don't even have no no knowledge of that being a lot. I used to meet you staircase occasionally. I can still walk upstairs back, then I was. I took the stairs to. Yeah. He's thirty four years. That's pretty pretty amazing. I started a news and sixty five and retired in ninety nine you got out just in time. I did. I did it was. I really did know a Glenn about a year ago. I was in Birmingham. I happen to go over to what is what used to be the Birmingham news. It's now AOL dot com. And I saw. I saw a couple of people there that it reminded me it was it was almost like being back in the nineties. Eight hundred ninety s again, I saw some, some great people that from that air. Carol Robinson being one of them. She spent a police report of their forever. Yeah. And it was just so cool to, to, to be back there. But it's just yeah you know better than I do. Because you started before I did. But that era is just sadly gone. Oh, yeah, it went from newspapers thought out put much up till about the late. Seventies. Like they've been put out for the previous hundred years. And then everything went to computers and totally changed industry. Yeah. I saw John Archibald that day too. And I felt like it was nineteen eighty-five five all over again. Yeah, we're just walking down to John's for lunch. Let me ask you about go back about all those forty years. About the time you came to the poster. I remember I think you and Bill had a double biolog- do come a doll. I'm sorry. You brought that up because I, I, I think you had the I think, which actually go to come is a long story, but I was telling you a friend of mine that not that long ago, I just got into the post herald and Vince Dooley. Who's the Auburn coach who was it was a Georgia coach was was they had fired Doug Barfield? And I. This is not a well known story for younger people. But Auburn when after Vince, who wants to learn of course. And so I'm working on the story Sunday night. It's about eleven o'clock, and you can relate to this, Glenn, and the story was reading had read. Auburn is continuing its pursuit of Vince Dooley. In an effort to bring him back home. There's all serious contact has been made. An offer has been made. It never said that he had taken the job. So no about eleven forty five and you know how late that is for a deadline in the story was, I think the story was in the sports page. Obviously, it was, it was Lumpkin calls me. And I don't know where he was. But he said, it's do we go with it. I said Bill, what do you mean go with it? Because at the time it was just my story. It was not that big a deal. It was a speculative story. He said he said, it's a done deal. I said, okay. He said, just, he's just strip it across the front page as big a headline, as you can get up front pay. I said, anything else Billy said copyrighted, I go whatever that means and I said, okay, so I'm writing the story feverishly it's now midnight, and you can only imagine the news desk, but, you know, it was a big story today. So I said, no Bill. Let me let me make sure I get all this, right. I've got your name. I said, no, no. He said he said, put your I said, Bill. It's your stories. He's putting put both names on it. Yeah. So, so the story I'll never forget this because I say that for a long time, it read Vince Dooley has been hired as auburn's football, coach sources told the newspaper. And of course, the story came out the next. It came out Monday morning. They ought the SEC used to have a presidents meeting in town, the at the end of the last weekend, and the president of the university of Georgia. Woke up read his newspaper and went crazy called called the university. They sent a plane and he, and he if we waited a day, Auburn probably where to hired Stuey, and then they offered Vince, whatever he wanted, and I asked Bill, I said, no. No. We were the first break it in the first break. He was studying Georgia, by the way, and I said, Bill, we're in the world. Did you get that he said, I think he told me David, how's showed him the press release? They had already written a press release that, that had been got. It was that far along and it, you know, 'cause they're famous stories in history just like this. Lyndon Johnson had a story similar to that. I think about J Edgar Hoover, Ben rally. An ISA said Bradley Johnson to fire, J Edgar Hoover, and that morning. He said he said, name, name him, the FBI director for the rest of for, for a lifetime appointment just to get the newspaper back heard that Barbour didn't we'll come back to denial Joe. I don't think he did. But, but Vince at the time not to deepen the weeds was he was at odds with the president. I think he wanted to be the athletic director and he net. And as you know, Vince, he was able to mortgage that headline. In our newspaper to getting the job in anything else. He wanted. And of course, it didn't hurt that he won the national championship either. Well, if the next time you get in contact with Bill give him. My regards, may remember me Glen, I will in. You can tell those days are gone. But fortunately, there's still people like us around to remember them. Absolutely. We'll talk with what a pleasure. Yeah. In. It taught me a very valuable lesson. In journalists never be absolute say could be might be expected to be. But we were. One of these days, Vince is gonna pay Bill and I back forgetting him for tripling your salary. Let's continue with more phone calls here Howie is in New Orleans. Go right ahead. Hey Paul, but afternoon, thanks for taking my call. Thank you very much. Thank you, for that been still sort ball. You know, all of those articles stories, well, it's. It was it was one of the most. I mean I just started my career and I'd blown the biggest story of my career. It was it was not. It was not an auspicious beginning. Well, it was great. Paul, what's let's get the current events? Okay. I was late getting on today to watch. And I thought I would hear dabble Sweeney Mika Brzezinski Willie Geist and, and Jim, all in one segment, that, that, that I have put it all together with the help of a friend of mine who watched the whole show today. And the thing is, is that personally, I, I don't think that close to meeting of meant anything by that other than other than this problem for me a, what would happen Paul if he goes to Koutzamani and in the future, and it goes into a home, and uncle, or an aunt somebody's in there with the young man and asks him, you know, we lost, so and so and the New York bombing or or at the hands of bin Laden, I own explain that. I mean, what would you say I was joking. You know, I mean it could happen. Full. Well, you know, I tell you what I would do, I would I would get, I would try to get out in front, and clarify the statement and otherwise as long as it hangs out there. Harry. It's going to stick to him in some way, shape or form. But I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world. But, but no. But it it's it to me. It's a bigger deal than some people are making it out to be. Well, it may not come back to haunt you me, a anybody knows. But like this gentleman it just call from Alabama, and it was irate that you will bring it up. I don't think that's unfair for you to bring that up. In fact, it may help that both to realize he's come out now and, and explain it just did it. I mean you know, he doesn't wanna wanna wanna done. I'm list, that's for sure. You know. Yeah. I mean I mean he wouldn't would he did was within can't, I don't think Daboh, thanks for the call here. I don't think Dabbagh really, you know, said this maliciously, but I think he got carried away. And I it's, it's a by the way, it's a fine line. I've been there many times in front of groups and you, you, you go down a road. And sometimes you just can't get back. Thanks for the call. We really appreciate it more phone calls in trips down memory lane after this some back to the program. More phone calls at eight five five two four two seven two eight five. He's been a guest on this trove of many, many times at one time, I think, Joe buffington was the reigning legal expert from the finebaum show Correggio. Yes, exactly. I would I was in. I was with you in the calls. It. Yeah. Not only maverick, I think he played a role in what famous were. You were you involved in the trial of the century on the show. Yes. Obviously, if the pay these don't fit you, Joey always been, I, I think we've had two trial of the century of Tammy of Phyllis and I think you were I know you were involved in both of them. So, but anyway, I say all that to let people know, the Joe was not a stranger to this show. No, not at all. And thank you, but, and I've rarely call in obviously, I think the last time I called in was about this time a year ago when my slob past and I'm calling now because of thank Bromberg past. And so, yeah. Those who didn't know frame Bromberg in my opinion, really one of the most prominent in distinguished in. You don't often hear this is third part of the sentence, nicest, people that have ever served in a high position. He was a longtime member of the university of Alabama board of trustees very prominent Birmingham, family fan. But in the jewelry business, I think the older, wouldn't that they are not the oldest. Yeah, eldest visits in the state of Alabama. Right. Maybe in the country, and it may be day thirty or something. But. At a mobile. I was just so, so so, so disappointed and devastated to hear that news the other day, just you rarely and we've had this conversation about Franken. I'll let you finish it. But. Rarely do you find someone who hold who can hold up over so many years, and be revered and loved by everyone. That's exactly right. And, you know, of course, you know about are. Adventures over the years with me, and you and find three. Those were different days. We've had a few. We bound to a few games together. Right. But anyway, it was a it was a normal service and just, you can imagine how classy, it was and everything, and, you know, fronts, mother Lilla and, you know, you know, I spent the night over there so many times, and just and lella was she was and is the backbone of that family and the sense that she's, you know, she's just, she's a great old, southern gal that just, you know, she's in charge. And so two hundred hundred told you the story I think it was. May have been the sugarbowl that Bill curry was was the coach and I was a there's always this New Year's Eve sugar ball party. And, and I, I showed up and, you know, the media is invited. But there really discouraged from staying too long and it's a big it's a big deal. I think Pete fountain was the entertainment to I'm wandering around with. I don't know. I don't there's no assigned seat, and I run into Frank Bromberg, and he stops me and he says, Paul sit down with us. I said, Frank, you're sure you want to be seeing. And this was the time I was very critical curry. I didn't. And I can't remember exactly what he said. I mean other words, what do I, I don't really care what anyone thinks it out. So I sat down with them. And, and really, I mean, I knew him through John Forni. But that night we became quite. Close friends after that, and. I it just I mean, I it showed me a lot because I don't need to educate you on, on the attitudes of Alabama. Aristocracy and but I cannot tell you, how many great times we've had together not a you, you pretty much grew up in that house says you said, no. It's actually has spent the night. There's so many times and, and Lello would always wake, you know, 'cause prank is great. This is runner. And she would, you know, like screaming guy. Yeah. My friends strike. The thank threes we go. To go run. And I mean like ten twelve fifteen mile fry go. And she in that I get up. And she said, no Joe you go back to sleep. I'll 'cause you loop. I'm really I really appreciate you sharing that with us because. I I really. In the many people that I missed seeing when I left firming him. He was certainly at the top of the list. Absolutely. I know you probably gotta go. But enjoy sharing that picture you and yeah, those, there's something weird about those dates. Yeah. No, we, we, we we, we all make do. On saying is, but I am a those big game from all over the country for Mr. Vomberg funeral about they hope. He's listed Morris. Grow one favorite p with all time and losing Dallas. And, you know, anyway, but bucking the mail and the, you know, he's all of the country, those Dicks is some little bit different about them. Well. I mean you're the good way. No, I. Well, listen. I it's great see a couple of weeks ago, and I will see very sin. Yeah. Okay. So thank you. I will love of my life. Well, unsure that will go over well at her house. Thanks you. Okay. Joe buffington talking about the, the life of frightened Bromberg junior who passed away the other day and was buried on, on Saturday. Let's continue with more calls and Tommy is in New Orleans. Hey, Tommy good afternoon. Are you doing? Paul down here in New Orleans spreading the good word of Alabama. Thank you. People just don't seem to get it. Man. Just want to let people know. I mean, I've heard at work in different things that, you know, Alabama dynasties dead because Clemson, just because you shoot Jesse James that doesn't make you Jesse James, we want, you know, we to Intuit them in the last four years and won five out the last night, you know, five out the last ten national championships. And we got the number one recruiting class that just came in and, you know, every time we've lost in a finals, we've come back in one in that he actually is always struck back. Well, and I think that's what I is a reason for that. I mean, what, what, what's it what's fascinating to me time is, I think two of savings best teams. Lost against Clemson has undefeated teams and one team. I think that beat Clemson, probably should not have one he called the, the onside kick and the other game. I'll give him that one w really? But we should've swift one. We lost by one point one second left, think we should have one. And I think we got outplayed the other game. But exactly. I mean besides when it five out the last ten we played for two other ones, and, you know, I heard you say earlier about who's gonna quarterback Alabama after two of when he leaves it that she shavings done real well with first year quarterbacks he has. And, you know, I mean my thing is I know people really don't like land Kippen, but I've always wanted if he was still offense coordinator how great he could have done with two. And now you've got all your. Alabama would have one more national championship. If lane kiffin head state another game. I'll say that. What Steve coming in? You know, a similar type of coordinator, I just feel great things with this receiving coal we have, you know, we always got decent running backs. You just never got a chance to hurt, you know, hear from them, yet because, you know, we were so spanked and also, you know, there was the thing about the performance enhancing drugs that Clemson players tested positive less. You just feel like Dabo gets a pass on all of these things. That's not really brought up major in the national media that would have been you know, if it was saving. Somebody just feel like be damned apple such a likable guy, you know, private all it is. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I it's it's again at the time it didn't seem like a big deal. But now that some more information has come out, I think it is a bigger deal. And he did get a pass. Thank you. Tommy, thank you very much for the call. We're up against a break thirty minutes to go as we continue here on a Tuesday afternoon. We'll come back is been a interesting one today. And we have thirty minutes to go said to David is calling from Sacramento, California. David, thank you. And good afternoon. Good afternoon. Paul appreciate you taking my call. First time phoning in. So listen, you know, regarding Dabo's comments, you know, I, I have to confess I engaged in a little bit of subterfuge and deception with your screener because it's June. We ought to be talking warriors rafters. I could care less about college football. I mean you know, there's nowhere else on on ESPN. You can find conversation about Kevin Durant, or the where's the raptors? I exactly. And while I'm appreciative of your very niche target demographic, both regionally and sports wise. I wanted to get your thoughts and what seems to be an emerging topic in the NBA now. But I think it's going to translate into other sports as well. And that is this whole idea of load management. And you know, it was so coincidental we saw two superstars on opposite ends on the. Yesterday Durant, obviously, with tragically what he suffered and then on the other side is quite Leonard. Right. Who famously sat out a season? With San Antonio sat out twenty two games with his home team Toronto, all because he trusted his body, and maybe not all the medical advisers in this topic of load management and save yourself for the postseason is becoming more more trendy. And, and I also wonder not just from a performance standpoint, but from a health standpoint it starts to emerge in the world of college football and youth football given everything we know about CTE do you think this is a trend? It's ephemeral it's just in the moment, because of Durant, and coli, or is this going to be something that has legs, I think it has legs David and I wondered last year and I said it a couple of times, just in college football since when, when Nick Sabin in my mind seemed to be abusing to, for what reason. He didn't need him to win those games. And I think sometimes there is a professional mentality with quarterbacks. And I, I think it's listen, what's going on in, in Oakland Toronto is being watched by everyone of these players at every level. And I think it's pretty easy to understand that it will trickle down with the level of entitlement that all young athletes have today. I believe it will stick now some places it would be easier to do than others. But I I'm not one that wants to opine to too heavily on on what happened to Durant yesterday because I really don't know what they knew, but I do know these not playing anymore and he's not playing for a long time. Right. Right. And we saw a complete contrast in how a similar situation was approached by by Kawai over these last eighteen now. And so, but, you know, once again, I tell you happen to agree with you, and I think it's going to be relevant another older with somebody the other day who played college football and pro football. And we were talking about why why do you see so many transfers nowadays? And I asked him, I said, what do you think it is, is it the entitlement? Is it the transfer of Puerto? And he said, you know what it is? It's the parents of the players and you know what I mean by that. But they are now more involved than they've ever been a players. Families have always been involved. And I think that's a dirty little secret that we don't talk about very often. Everyone remembers being on the little league team at ten years old, and there was, there was always some dad Hoving over who made sure his kid got in. But, but now it extends and. Coaches can't talk about it, but those fathers. Or always they're, they're always at practice. They're always watching in the second, they sent something is changing their, the I believe they're the first ones that start looking around to get their son. Elsewhere. Yeah. No, I in in, I may be crossing a very delicate line here. Particularly with respect to perhaps the target of this show. But there are some pretty strong regional educational per capita income factors that are alternately playing into longer term health issues of football. And in a perverse way, I fear that the southeast candidly from a cultural standpoint is going to actually become more and more dominant a force in college football over the next decade or two, because what we are finding in areas of, let's face, it, higher education in average income levels. We see more attrition of youth football and parents keeping their kids off the field. No. You're, you're, you're absolutely right. David. And it's. I see it hear it and you're dead on. Well, I appreciate ever. Thank you. Great perspective, we really do. Appreciate we go. Sacramento south to Los Angeles. Phil go right ahead. You're on the air. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you. Yeah. I want to make a comment in reference to the Davos, sweetie statement. Well, if you don't over the last couple of years demo has made some statements, you know, Abba, call consider them in filter, so. It's like downton orient America. You know, people say now you know where there was a time when, you know you would. Really filter for you would say up, think before you said in his they but now because of the atmosphere in this country. I think just this guy has reached the top of the meat saying he figured. Well, I'm at the top. So I can say whatever, in my mind, maybe whatever I wanna see. So, you know with no repercussions, you know, I can do I say, what I want to say I go to all these different outlets and entities have been going to travel into it reminds me of something else. So someone else I mean, I'm just saying that possibly could have something to do with it. But I don't know. This is just an opinion. So I, I don't think this is really that difficult to understand. I think here here's a guy who. Who's it on really interesting and difficult position having gone? Dalla Bama being from Alabama and now he's ruined to Alabama season. So he's, he's finding a way to new onset. Never I heard him. I've heard him do it myself. In front of an Alabama audience. And he was funny that night, this wasn't funny, but, but because I just don't you know, humor and I've tried to be funny in my in my life. And I've given up on it because it's not a comedian. I, I don't know if there's a I mean I'm not trying to compare comedians with people that, that save mankind. But there, there are, there are few lonely or posts in the world into stand in front of a crowd, and try to make them laugh. And I think Dabbagh was trying to be funny here. But I think it showed a high degree of sensitivity by by. I mean you can you can make fun of a lot of people in, in search your name into a lot of different things. But Somma bin Laden is not one of those names that you really want anything to do with. Exactly. That's, that's my point. You know, you mean he you have to have a filter at some point in time think before you talk talking to Ben thinking out the words, I think I think I think he's a very bright guy in the sense of, of what he's put together. But I personally knowing him moderately, well and watching him over the years since he played high school football. I think the stage is uncomfortable for him. I think he's he much prefers being the underdog trying to get up that hill and bring all of the bunch of the guys that never had a chance and got disrespected. I mean he's got five stars across the board now. And, and he beat Alabama and he's talking after like nobody respects our program. Well, that's a bunch of crap. I mean he's been in the national championship hunt for four consecutive years. He's won two titles. And that's just that's just doesn't play any longer. Yeah. That's that that'd be is one of my point was said, he's at the top of the food. So. Arrive. Now, whatever comes out of my mouth. You know, I don't get a he had some discretion to a point. But I, I wonder if he has full discretion. I don't know. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a big turn fill and especially at a school like Clemson. I'm sure Clemson hands will not like this. But Clemson is not Alabama. It is Alabama is part of college football royalty Clemson is not. It's a little, it's a it's a it's a, it's a nice little school off the beaten path, and the first time I drove there. I couldn't find it because it's not on the GPS. I mean, try try try taking your first trip to Clemson at midnight on a Friday night, and all of a sudden you're you're in the middle of nowhere. And you don't know where to go because your GPS is like is like reprogramming every two seconds, because it's not on the map. Yeah. Well, it is now why wasn't there? Well, he's definitely putting it on the mound. That kidding. It probably it's probably on the new GPS map, but five years ago, we're not drove there for the first time. Couldn't find it. You can find a now just follow the national championship trophies. We'll take we'll take a break more to come on this Tuesday afternoon. Glad you're with us. And let's go to Charleston. Next Jack you're on the air as we begin to one things down. Hey, jack. How you doing? Okay. Thank you. Good. Oh, my take on the other thing is, I don't believe any harm but what you said, but I think he committed a big mistake, and that was he uttered a controversial name. And he seemed to be making light of it, and thus giving his detractors ammunition for feigned outrage. And, and to, you know, give them a bit of a toehold on into pulling down a little bit because within three months of nine eleven Saturday Night Live was doing sketches about her home been bin Laden. And you know, just just seems to be much to do about nothing. I the, the pecking order a major college football has been upset. My little old Clemson. And people don't like that, especially people in areas used Houston, having their way and success. And I've been that's what it's all about be honest with you. Well, okay. Well, listen. I don't think this is something that will be a big deal down the road. We were just talking about it today. And, and all the gentlemen from I think it's Saturday on south he was in maybe if Dabo had a scene, Jon Stewart's, impassioned speech before he, he would've thought twice. I don't know if Jon Stewart had any comedy sketches about bin Laden, maybe that could be Google and tell them down. But yeah, just I mean, I don't I didn't go through all of them, but I saw several sketches throughout the years and the first one that I noticed was three months after it actually happened. And you know. For everybody. Get upset over Dabo, making them basically a joke and, and claiming that he would be treated like that. He had to go to the back ways of pays and stuff like that. I think any you've had a real controversial name. I guess people a chance to, you know. I would think of all people dabbled Sweeney we'd probably understand how folks felt I mean he's from that statement with. I, I I've been I brought it up today, but I'm not trying to act quite you know, the get off your lawn guy because I didn't like it. But I also. Don't find it to be anything other than a prison into Daboh that maybe something we haven't seen before. And I know that sounds like we're trying to make a big deal out of it. But, but you add that on top of the statement, he made a couple of weeks ago about leaving the go to the NFL that came about three weeks after signing a long term deal, he, he's made a couple of odd comments, and I, I've already said that I think it has more to do with him, not being comfortable in, in the front car. So that might be true. But because this kind of new to him, you know, to the but anyway, I just think that's what it's about more. You know, raise chancer nocco double down a little bit. And you know that's my take on it. But cruciate you taking my call from South Carolina Franklin is in Alabama. How are we Franklin? Great hall, are you? We are doing great. Thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Listen known probably looking at this, the orange colored glasses being a Clinton fan for thirty three years. But all the times you enter in this, the things he says, tongue in cheek, you know, he was being interviewed by serious uptick your day, and they're asking them about being one of the favored sons of Alabama. And basically he was trying to acquaint himself with the most hated man in America, you know, at one point, or SAMA been locked by saying, you know, having to take the back alleys, you know, and then caves, or whatever it come into the state because there's a Somma been Daboh and basically, I just think that there's a lot of, you know, outrage over really something that he just making a joke about, I really don't think it was, you know, anything other than just him being telling and cheek and try that quite himself with the most hated man in Alabama the same way Osama bin Laden was with the country. So, well, I mean. Yeah. You know, I I will stand down, and then we'll all live. To see another day and. The arguments have all been great. My opinion has not changed. We'll see you tomorrow.
Strides Towards Freedom | 2
"Magin that you're a young black parent in a small Virginia town. It's a cold rainy morning in the early months of nineteen fifty one, but the stove is keeping the kitchen warm and breakfast is halfway cook. You're waiting for your children to finish getting ready for school. Really? You make sure you don't forget your coat today. You know that classroom is liable to freeze over before the day is out. You glance at the clock and stir the eggs in the pan. They need to hurry up or they'll be late. You turned your husband sitting at the kitchen table sipping his coffee and reading the paper. Will you tell them to get going? He seemed lost in thought, but puts his coffee down for a moment. You all listen to your mother and come on out here. Your education isn't going to wait for you. You hope that'll be the extra motivation thing, but as they continue getting ready, your thoughts can help the turn to the kind of education. They're really receiving the one high school in your county that's open to black students is so overcrowded that for the last two years, they've taught the school day in shifts your classes and at lunchtime every day. So the neck. Round of students can come in the school board solution for this year is in much better though there's now a full school day your children attend class in a pair of hastily constructed shacks with no electricity or running water. When I saw the quote new buildings, you'd mistaken them for chicken coops and truth. They weren't much better than that the roof leaks when it rains and rubies already had one bad case of pneumonia this winter because of the cold and wet inside Honey, you better have a look at this. Your husband interrupts your furious thoughts. He extends the newspaper in your direction, pointing at the page. What is it says the school board has approved funds to start building a new high school will. Thank the Lord. We've been writing and standing up at those meetings for years. Trying to make this happen always telling us they don't have the money and looking at us like they could spit about time. They made it right. No, Celia they're saying the money's for new white school. You can feel yourself starting to shake with outrage. You've seen Jim crows unrelenting grip, shape your. Life and it's doing the same thing to your kids that can't be right. No, it's it's wrong. It's just wrong what they keep doing to these children to our children. I know it, but there's not much more we can do. I don't accept that. I can't. They desegregated the whole US army, didn't they what our few country schools compared to that. But Honey, that took a whole movement to do head to get the president involved in everything. Well, then maybe that's what we need right here. So what you're going to be an activist now, like those folks in the in AA c, p maybe I will. All I know is it can't stay like this. Somebody's got to do something. We've got to do something. You've never really thought of yourself as an activist before you've gone to the school board and tried to make things better. But that always felt like it was just your jobs apparent. This feels different though after all your husband's right about one thing, there's a movement going on and it's about time you became part of it. Most days you've got a lot of places go and a lot to get done before you can even think about falling into bed at night. Wouldn't it be nice if you could stay connected to the world while you were out there getting it all done? What if the experience of driving a luxury vehicle wasn't limited to just inside your car but extended out into the world around you introducing the well-connected two thousand nineteen. Lincoln m. k. c. with a suite of social tech, including ways integration. 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Slash wondering. That's Lincoln dot com. Slash w. o. n. d. e. r. y.. From wondering, I'm Lindsey, Graham, and this is American history, callers, our history, your story. Today, we're continuing our six episode series on the American civil rights movement with a look at how the movement expanded and evolved in the early nineteen fifties. This is part two strides toward freedom for all the injustice of racial segregation in American society. One of the troubling realities for civil rights activists was that Jim crow was legal since eighteen ninety six United States Supreme court had condone the practice of segregation. The court had insisted that racially separate facilities did not violate the constitutional rights of American citizens as long as members of each race had access to facilities that were equal. But this idea of separate but equal as the law of the land never really looked equal in practice and for more than half a century racial exclusion in the staggering inequalities of Jim crow flourished as the supreme court turned a blind eye and offered its stamp of approval in the post World War Two years. A key battle for civil rights activists was stripping. Jim crow of its legal protections, but inspite of a string of victories by the NWC peas, legal fence and education fund getting the court to overturn the separate. But equal doctrine was a major challenge. It was one thing to point out or correct, obvious examples of inequality in segregated institutions, something that the court had been more willing to do in recent years. It was something else entirely to admit that segregation itself was inherently wrong. Since the nineteen thirties, civil rights lawyers typically worked around the edges of separate but equal. They often push for states to equalize rather than desegregate the public facilities that serve communities, believing that this would make it too expensive for states to keep segregation in place, but by nineteen fifty, the time for a more direct attack had come in June of that year, the nation's leading civil rights, lawyers spearheaded by NWEA c. p. legal director Thurgood Marshall decided to aggressively pursue desegregation an attack on separate, but equal was their primary objective. Marshall had served as chief counsel of the NWC p. legal defense fund since nineteen forty ten years later, he was forty two years old and one of the most highly regarded civil rights litigators in the nation. He was driven in part by his experiences as a student having been denied admission to the university of Maryland law school because of his race over the following decades. He worked relentlessly to ensure the next generation of. Students would not face the same kind of exclusion. Indeed, schools for one of the most important places to stage this legal battle segregated schools laid bare the Germanic and tangible inequalities of life under Jim crow few realities. Whereas disinheriting for parents in black communities than the conditions that their children faced when trying to get an education without access to decent schools without a real investment in the potential of the next generations continued inequality in virtually every aspect of life seemed like a foregone conclusion. So the campaign against Jim crow schools quickly escalated Marshall and the NWC peas team of lawyers soon began selecting cases to take to the supreme court. But while the lawyers would lead the way in Washington, the driving force behind this new wave of challenges came from local communities and sometimes from the students themselves. Farmville Virginia was a tobacco lumber town of little more than four thousand residents about sixty five miles south west of Richmond in November nineteen fifty. A high school student named Barbara rose Johns was fed up with the conditions at her segregated high school, the overcrowding, the lack of decent facilities. The hand-me-down school buses that barely stayed running the tar paper shacks, a school board had forced many of the students into it all become too much to bear. So she gathered a small group of students together and secretly planned a protest to take place in the coming spring on the morning of April twenty third nineteen, fifty one. John's forged notes from the school principal asking teachers to convene an assembly at eleven AM a little before Levin. Another student pretending to be a parent called the principal's office saying to people's were causing trouble at the local bus station as a principal hurried away from campus to deal with disturbance. The student body began. Filing into the auditorium when they arrived. It was John's who took the podium. She asked all of the teachers to leave so that she could address her classmates about an urgent matter despite some initial hesitation. Most of the teachers left right away one or two protested, but course of booing from the four hundred fifty students in the room soon. Chase them out then John's began to speak. She was on fire. She later recalled I related with heated emphasis. The facts. They knew to be the truth. We've mapped out for those students are wish that they would not accept the conditions of our school in that they would do something about it. She called for the students to boycott together. She insisted they would protest until all the county schools were integrated and every student had access to the same quality of education. There boycott began that afternoon the following day Johns and a group of student leaders marched down main street to the county courthouse. There. They met with the school superintendent and presented their demands though that meeting. Ended in a stalemate. The students had also invited a veteran team of NWC lawyers in Virginia to investigate the inequalities in farmville schools. Before long, the protests John had ignited would transform into a legal battle one that would eventually make it all the way to the US supreme court. The students from farmville would see their case, make national headlines along with four others from Kansas, Delaware, South Carolina, and Washington DC known collectively as Brown versus board of education of Topeka, Kansas. These five cases became the NWC peas. Most important and ambitious battleground. Yet in the fight against segregation, the legal team were tirelessly to prepare for their day in court, presenting their final arguments in December nineteen Fifty-three. After that, all they do is wait to see if their painstaking effort would be enough in the months that followed the NWC peas. Lawyers were hopeful but nervous. The stakes were high losing would reaffirm the constitutionality of segregation. And in all likelihood guarantee the survival of Jim crow, for at least another generation after all, it had taken nearly sixty years before the court had been willing to seriously scrutinize the eighteen ninety six separate, but equal decision victory. On the other hand that would publicly put segregation on the wrong side of the constitution. It would turn Jim crow, architects into law breakers. A victory might just change the nation. Imagine you're at home with your family in Baltimore, Maryland, it's may nineteen fifty four. You're playing with your young son who's just gotten home from school. Hello Clara. It's me our mom and daddy there. Yes, there have front go, get them in, turn on the radio. What's going on? Just turn it on. I'll call you back. You send your son to bring his grandparents in from the front yard, you walk across the room, turn the radio on, not sure what to expect. You find a news station and settle into a chair nearby. Your son comes running in your parents close behind, seeing the anxious, look on your face. They move quietly to the other chairs in the room on your son sits on the floor and plays with the twin car. Breaking news. The United States have bring court has announced its unanimous decision in the public school segregation cases, chief Justice award, but the stamp of unconstitutionality on segregate schools, twenty one states and the district of Columbia, including right here in Maryland in the field of public education. The court declared the doctrine of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently on. Across the room at your parents in stunned silence before any of you can put words to what you're feeling the phone rings again, you get up and reach for the receiver. Hello, Clara. Did you hear it? It's wonderful. We heard I can't believe it tell mama and daddy were coming over. We'll be there soon. Replace the phone back in the cradle and look back to your parents. They're standing now each other. They look at you each with a client cheerful smile and all three of you look down at your son playing quietly with his toys. You just inherited a very different future. News of the courts may nineteen fifty. Four decision was like a shot of adrenaline to civil rights activists throughout the nation. It was perhaps the most important blow to date against the forces that kept prejudice and inequality. So deeply entrenched in the United States. Jim crow, solid legal footing had slipped and millions of black Americans now felt new hope for the future in New York City. The end of lacy peas. Attorneys were ecstatic at the legal teams offices, lawyers and activists gathered for a well-deserved night of celebration. They knew they were part of something historic attorney constants. Baker motley described the excitement of that night. It was bedlam the party went on most of the night. I remember being there when the clock struck three thirty a. m. becoming part of history is a special experience reserved for only a few. It's like earning a law degree or a PHD. Nobody can take it away from you. You may be forgotten, but it's like in mortality. You'll always be there as the party went on. However, Thurgood Marshall seemed increasingly worried he sends that despite the magnitude of what they had accomplished. Their fight was really only beginning in the months ahead. Marshalls concerns were proven right. The victory was a worthy cause for celebration, but it wasn't the finish line. The Browns Susan had opened up a whole new set of battles that would need to be fought in the years ahead. It would be up to local communities and civil rights lawyers to push forward school integration in town after town throughout the south, and more than a few northern communities to it would be slow hard and often dangerous work after all the violence that fueled and sustained white supremacy was never far from the service the year that followed the Brown versus board of education decision brought a particularly vicious reminder of that fact of life in that summer of nineteen fifty five. Jim crow would strike back with violence. American history tellers is sponsored by the great courses. Why are you listening to this podcast to be entertained for a bit to make your commute or chores, feel less ordinary, or are you a lifelong student learning for the sheer joy of it? Introducing the great courses, a vast collection of lectures on hundreds of topics taught by renowned professors and experts. You might be especially interested in their course history of the United States, discover the people, ideas and events that made this country like the civil rights era presented by three noted historians each video lectures available on the web, your phone and other devices, like a smart TV or speaker, and you can stream just the audio to talk alling back and forth between devices without missing a word for a limited time. American history tellers. Listeners can buy a digital copy of history of the United States for only nine ninety nine that's up to a six hundred dollar savings or get unlimited access to this course and more with a. Free trial to the great courses plus stream over ten thousand audio and video lectures on any topic free to get either of these offers. You must go to the great courses plus dot com. Slash tellers go. Now the great courses plus dot com slash tellers. That's the great courses p l u s dot com. Slash tellers. American history tellers is brought to you by main well, the denim brand where the motto is good days start with great jeans. How many pairs of jeans do you own now try to think of all of them. Even the ones in storage and the aspirational pair you swear would look great. If you could just now how many of those do you wear and how many fit and look good, not many, whether you wear them skinny, straight, low or high made well has a pair for you. They offer extended sizes, plenty of rise and insead options, and tons of colors and styles made well has also recently introduced genes for men. I ordered a slim cut. In a dark wash, the kind that looked great, but often feel stiff and cardboard. Not this pair. They claim they're Denna masterminds us the latest and fabric technology, and I believe them and ask for those genes in your closet. Well, bring them into your nearest made well store any brand. And he style made well has partnered with blue jeans, go green to turn them into housing insulation for communities in need. And for every pair of jeans you bring in, you'll get twenty dollars off a new one. Redo your denim. Stop by made well store or go to made well dot com. Magin you're young white man, and we're all Mississippi. It's late August nineteen. Fifty five. And this morning you're walking the banks of the Tallahassee river taking a friend to your favorite fishing hole. It's early, but he has already thick making your shirt, stick with sweat as you pick your way along a trail towards the water's edge up ahead. You hear voices and boat's engine didn't scare off all the fish. They don't keep that noise down. Come on. Let's see if we can't tell them to take it somewhere else. You move a little quicker. Noun soon. Reach a clearing you spot to boats idling just off the shore before you can shout to them. You see the county sheriff standing in patches shade on the Bank. He's watching the men on the boats as they scan the money, Brown water. Let's the trouble sheriff. You looks your way surprised to see anyone else here seems some of the boys out here fishing this morning thought they saw something in the water. So they ran off and called us in what they see might be nothing. But they said it looked like a body just on the sheriff's men, pull something out of the water. Hell you all. Better move along. We turn back toward the trees, but then one of the boats starts moving toward the Bank, dragging rope behind. You stop to watch with the boats. Now on shore. Three of the men have grabbed the rope in our steadily pulling it in straining a bit with the weight and the slippery footing. After a few moments, you can see what they're pulling up from the river bottom as it slowly comes out of the muck, my God, it's the body of a young boy dragged feet first from the water you turn away, but not before the image is burned in your memory, child's bodies, beaten and bloated with a gunshot wound on the right side of his head is neck is wrapped with barbed wire tied to a heavy mud-soaked iron fan. The sheriff steps out of the shade walked over to the body. He stares briefly aspect. That's the one those Chicago folks have been making. All the fuss about turns spits as he walked back up the riverbank guess somebody ought to call the corner. The body recovered from the Tallahassee river in August nineteen. Fifty-five would quickly be identified as that of Emmett till till was a fourteen year old African American student from Chicago visiting family in rural Mississippi. He had been kidnapped missing for three days. The discovery of his body confirmed his family's worst fears. Till's abduction and murder had stemmed from an alleged incident at a local store, though. No one knows exactly what happened on the evening of August twenty fourth witnesses agreed that till entered the store alone and spoke for only a minute to Carolyn Bryant. The twenty one year old white woman behind the counter inside having grown up in Chicago till was unfamiliar with many rules spoken and unspoken that regulated interactions between black men and white women in the south in their quick exchange till supposedly spoke to Bryant in a way that she deemed too familiar or disrespectful. He may also have touched her hand as he gave her the money for his purchase instead of play. It on the counter as black patrons were generally expected to do at the time. Brian insisted the two had grabbed her waist and put his hands on her waist. But decades later, she would recant those details. By the time Till's cousin entered the store to check on him. Things already become tents. They move quickly outside shortly after Bryant exited to retrieve something from her car. But as she went to the vehicle till, apparently let out a whistle in the violent climate of Jim crow, Mississippi the situation just become potentially deadly immediately. Till's friends, hurried him away from the store. They wrote home in silence. Nothing happened the next day, but the fear that something terrible might becoming started to build a young woman who lived near where till was staying told the boys that she knew Karen branch family. They're not just going to forget what happened. She warned it was the night of August twenty. Seventh, when Brian husband and his half-brother appeared and kidnapped till at gunpoint over the next several hours. The two men tortured their fourteen year old captive before finally delivering the fatal gunshot and dumping his body in the river, they assumed he would never be discovered as Till's family frantically searched for him. The local sheriff oversaw the gruesome recovery, but Till's body was a problem that the sheriff did not want. So he tried to orchestrate a hasty burial there and Mississippi before too many others could see the extent of the child's injuries. Till's family protested his mother Thirty-three-year-old Mamie Bradley insisted that her son be returned home to Chicago for a proper funeral. Two days later, she met the train from Mississippi that carry. His remains defying instructions from Mississippi thirties. She insisted that the casket be opened so that she could see her only child one last time. She was so horrified by the sight that she collapsed in the midst of her grief. However, Bradley made a courageous choice. She hoped that public awareness of the brutality of her sons murder would call attention to the extrordinary violence that African Americans face throughout the south. She told the funeral home director, let the world see what I've seen. It was a painful heart, rending decision. Bradley held an open casket funeral, allowing news magazines to publish photographs of her son's body. The white newspapers refused to carry them ges in the weeks that followed the evidence of Mississippi's racial brutality appeared on the front pages of black publications across the United States. The public outcry they created would help ensure that the men who murdered till faced prosecution. But the trial of Till's killers would ultimately add insult to injury in late September, nineteen. Fifty five just weeks after the funeral and all white during the town of summer Mississippi hastily acquitted, the two men responsible for tools, torture, and execution. There would be no Justice here. The impact of Till's death echoed across the country. His murder would haunt a generation for decades afterward, black children who came of age in the late nineteen, forties and fifties will describe how that summer and the pictures of Till's body shape there at leci-. But as maybe Bradley had intended when she opened her son's casket, his murder, also galvanized a new wave of protest. Mothers and fathers, sons and daughters determined to fight the pre-taliban that cut short Till's life as it was threat. They all faced. In the wake of the killers acquittal Mississippi civil rights activist doctor t. r. m. Howard began a speaking tour across the country to raise awareness about the violence in his home state on November evening in nineteen fifty five, three days after thanksgiving Howard spoke to a large audience in Montgomery, Alabama, the state's capital city and place that many still called the cradle of the confederacy. The text of Howard speech hasn't survived, but as he described the final hours of Emmett till life, the men and women in the church pews were moved and heartbroken. His speech rang in their ears. So did his call to action. They recognize the pain and the passion in Howard's voice. They knew it well, something had been building in Montgomery over the course of that year, a spirit of protests that was ready to explode four days after Howard speech, a woman from the audience that night would help launch one of the most significant social Justice campaigns in American history. Her name was Rosa Parks. American history tellers is sponsored by quip. My family. I recently spent a few days in the woods around broken bow, Oklahoma. It was a fantastic trim with the weather, finally, cooling and some leaves already turning. But I usually decided to leave my quip toothbrush at home, packing ordinary manual brush. Instead, I don't know why I did that. My quip comes with a travel cover, but more importantly, I missed the deep clean feel of quip. Quip is an electric toothbrush. That's a fraction of the cost of bulkier brushes, but Justice affective quits, Bilton timer, healthy clean for the dentist, recommended two minutes and quick can deliver new brush heads on a dentist, recommended schedule every three months for just five dollars, including free shipping world wine. Quip also comes with amount that suctions right to your mirror. And if you remember to use it unstick to use his travel cover to keep you brushing healthy on the road. Quit starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash tellers right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with a quick electric. Th- brush that's your first refill pack free at get quip dot com slash tellers. That's g. e. t. q. u. I p. dot com. Slash tellers. Magin you're a forty year old black woman in Montgomery, Alabama. It's a Friday morning in early December nineteen. Fifty five. You walk into the nearest bus, stop in the cold morning hours making your way to work at the corner up ahead. You spot your friend Vivian already waiting. She works for a family. If you houses down from your employer and most as you ride there together, she's clutching a small sheet of paper as she waves to you. When you reach the corner, she leans in with a half whisper. Did you hear they arrested another woman on the buses yesterday, Geraldine called and told me the news, it's shameful. Same thing they did that poor Colin real few months back didn't say who it was this time, though I heard from a lady over at the women's political council that it was MRs parks that woman from the NWC p now, what in the world? They wanna do that for, you know, as well as I do, they don't need much in the way of reason you not while neither of you has ever faced arrest you. Could both trade any number of stories about the insults and embarrassments you've had to put up with on the city buses. You know that every time you ride, you have to brace yourself for the possibility of something cruel or rude, or even violent. The truth is these rides fill you with a special kind of dread each and every working day. I think they might have been off a little more than they can chew this time though. Vivian hands you, the papers he's been clutching my neighbor gave me this on the way out here you start to unfold the small square talking about a boycott on Monday. You really think the folks going on with that. Honestly, I don't know the folks are tired of this. I know that much here not wrong. You both entered the bus and pay your fare. It's crowded this morning, and dozens of people are jammed in the aisles, and every one of them is black. There's hardly any open space at all, except of course, for the ten empty seats at the front reserved as always for white passengers. As you start to move in from the door driver glares. Where do you think you're going? I paid my fair. You get out and board at the back doors. I don't want you anywhere near there. Isn't any room in the back. Did I ask if there was room that better get on out before you make trouble for everybody on this bus didn't you? Here? We had one of you locked up yesterday. I'd be happy to give her some company you in Vivian back slowly out the door trying not to turn around and cases driver's type to take switch, walk quickly to the rear doors knowing sometimes the drivers will just take off before you can enter the back, but the doors are open. When you get there, the bus sits there. Idling as you wait after a moment. Nobody wants, but the idea that makes you taste bile in the back with throat. Finally, Vivian swallows hard, please. Mr. we've got to get to work doors open and you squeeze in jostling to other women. You hear the driver chuckled from the front of the bus pulls into the streets. You. Can barely contain your anger from the looks on the faces of the women around you. You're not the first ones he's done this to today, but you notice something else as you Lance at the people crowded into the sure enough. Every one of them is clutching a copy of that same piece of paper Vivians eyes light up at the site. Monday might be something special. Buses were hostile humiliating and often violent places. In the Jim crow, south bus drivers acted with impunity to uphold. The customs of white supremacy Montgomery was no different than most other cities in that respect roughly twenty five thousand black Montgomery citizens road. The city buses every year. The vast majority at least one terrible experience with white drivers writers as a result of discrimination. There were plenty of insults that black passengers face regularly. Drivers were notorious for throwing change and transfer slips on the floor or refusing to make changes. All drivers would pass stops crowded with black passengers, especially on rainy or coal days, or they would hurl insults. Epithets. Those didn't move fast enough for their liking at some point. Most black passengers had probably witnessed fellow rider being manhandled beaten or arrested aboard. One of the city's yellow monsters as they come to be called. And then there were the seats on every bus, whether they're a white pass. Injures or not. The first ten double seats were reserved for whites only at times thirty or forty. Black passengers would be jammed into the aisles. While rows of seats stayed empty. If white passengers did fill the front seats, black writers were expected to stand and move back each time, a new white rider boarded for thousands of blacks. Dozens in Montgomery, their daily commute brought humiliating reminders of their second class status, despite this long record of mistreatment and some individual examples of resistance on Montgomery's buses. It wasn't until nineteen fifty five that the situation reached a boiling point. Things had gotten notably worse since nineteen fifty four. The year, the supreme court's decision in Brown versus board of education. White southerners were reacting harshly to the court's. Ruling black citizens were increasingly restless with persistence of segregation. The battle on the buses was coming to ahead in March of nineteen fifty, five police nearly ignited major protests when they arrested a black high school student named Claudette. Calvin after she refused to give up her seat to a white passenger. Her subsequent conviction had angered many among Gummer's black community but had stopped short of causing public demonstrations a few months later in October eighteen year old. Mary Louise Smith was arrested and fined under similar circumstances. After each arrest Montgomery's black community grew more frustrated and eager for change while these arrests served as flash points behind the scenes. A local organization called the women's political council had begun preparing to stage some sort of demonstration to improve conditions on the buses led by JoAnne Robinson, a professor at nearby Alabama state college. The council had previously tried negotiating with city officials to address them, the more offensive practices of Montgomery bus drivers when these efforts failed the women. The group again, laying plans for a mass boycott. The only question left was when. Their opportunity came in early December with the arrest of forty two year old Rosa Parks by nineteen fifty. Five parts was no stranger to political organizing known and respected throughout Montgomery's black community for her bowl, commitment to racial Justice, parks, join the NWC p in the early forties and had served for several years on the organization state executive committee. She had fought for array of causes over the preceding decade. She publicly championed the rights of African American women who had been assaulted by white men. She had campaign to register black voters. She also helped run the city's NWEA c. p. youth council of which Claudette Colvin was an active member even before her protests on the buses. If you were politically engaged blacks, Zain of Montgomery in the nineteen fifties, you knew the name of Rosa Parks, her arrest on December first nineteen. Fifty five for refusing to give up her seat to a white passenger quickly became the rallying point that other activists had been searching for JoAnne Robin. And the women's political council sprang into action working throughout the night Robinson and a small team of her students at Alabama state produce more than fifty thousand leaflets nounce plans for a one day boycott to take place on Monday December fifth, the day that parks was scheduled to go to court Robinson's teams, sped through the city during the morning hours dropping bundles of leaflets at schools, storefronts beauty shops, barber, shops, churches, and other meeting places throughout Montgomery's black neighborhoods by two o'clock that afternoon, practically every black citizen of Montgomery had learned of the planned station that same night Friday, December second, black ministers in the city called for meeting to help encourage participation in the boycott and to help organize alternate systems of transportation for the following Monday throughout the weekend anticipation continued to build on Monday morning, black residents who had lived along the bus routes were up before dawn eagerly. They watched and waited and. Something remarkable started to happen. Thousands of regular commuters called in sick, walked or shared car rides, the buses state empty. The boycott was working as JoAnne. Robinson described it the power of tens of thousands of blacks. Others United in purpose was unlike anything she had ever experienced. She said they were really free free inside. They felt it acted manifested in their entire beings. The day was an undeniable triumph that night six thousand boycotters overflow, the pews of the hull street Baptist church while thousands more crowded, the streets nearby, the meeting had been scheduled as a way to reflect on the lessons of the day's protest. But now the crowd called for the boycott to continue. Nobody wanted this feeling to end as the evenings program rolled along whole streets pastor called forward one of his young colleagues in ministry to address the crown into the pulpit. Step twenty six-year-old Dr. Martin Luther King junior, the young scholar Reverend was still unfamiliar to most in the audience. He had been in Montgomery for just over a year pastoring relatively small congregation of a few hundred people at Dexter avenue Baptist church. Earlier that evening planning committee made up many of the city's black religious political leaders had selected king to lead the Montgomery improvement association. The m. i. a was organized in a Goshi eight with White City officials and help coordinate any further boycott efforts. King was a consensus choice. He had begun to distinguish himself as thoughtful and passionate speaker unburdened by any personal conflicts with other black leaders. Not that there was a lot of competition for the role after all despite the success that day, no one was really sure whether protests like this could last much longer or if you could force real change from the pulpit at hull street. That night king began slowly speaking of the serious business that they were there to conduct with a few hastily scrawled notes as guide. The young preacher built. The crowds in Tuesday has to new heights. The rhythm and run that would make his speeches famous in the years ahead brought shouts and explosions of applause from the thousands assembled. And as he was reaching his conclusion, he told the men and women there that night, something that they had already begun to suspect that there's was a fight that would be remembered. Let s go out with a grim in bowl determination that we're going to stick together. We are going to work together right here in Montgomery when the history books are written in the future, somebody will have to say there lived a race of people, a black people, a people who had the moral courage to stand up for their rights and thereby they injected a new meaning into the veins of history and of civilization. The crown decided to continue the boycott indefinitely fueled by the sacrifice meticulous organization of hundreds of community members and the steady contributions of Montgomery's black women. The buses stayed empty weeks passed. Then months before long. The boycott had lasted a whole year along the way. The protesters faced heckling, arrests, intimidation, constant pressure, but the movement held its course and unyielding resolve set in. They had to see this through for themselves and for other communities. Like there's it seemed like the whole nation was watching. Finally, after thirteen grueling months of protests victory came a US supreme court ruling in a case brought by Claudette Colvin and three other black women in Montgomery affirmed that the buses should be desegregated White City leaders grudgingly gave in shortly before Christmas nineteen, fifty, six blacks. Citizens of Montgomery began returning to the bus stops one after another. They paid their fares and settled into seats in the front rows, but their fight had been about much more than seating arrangements as one leader described it. This has been about seizing a new sense of dignity and destiny, and they had won the victory in Alabama, stood as one of the most remarkable examples of an idea that was taking root in more and more communities. The end of Jim crow might not be generations away. Maybe it could happen right here. And right now that possibility was tantalizing. It helped inspire new, audacious hopes of what the future might hold the road ahead was a rocky one. Jim crow wasn't going down down a fight. On the next episode of American history tellers. The segregation strategy of massive resistance hands, the growing civil rights movement. Some of its toughest challenges yet in Little Rock and Prince, Edward county communities will fight to implement the Brown decision and eliminate separate, but equal schools from wondering, this is American history tones. I hope you enjoyed this episode if you did subscribe now on apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcast tune in Stitcher. Wonder dot com for wherever you listen to this right now. If you're listening on a smartphone, tapper swipe over the cover art of this podcast, you'll find the episode knows including some details. You may have missed. You'll also find some offers from our sponsors. Please support the show by supporting them. We'd also love to learn a little more about you. Please complete a short survey at wonder, dot com. Slash survey that's wondering dot com. Slash survey, you'll have an opportunity to tell us what you liked about this show and what you'd love to hear in future episodes. Thank. Merican history tellers is hosted. Sound design edited by meet Lindsey, Graham for airship additional production assistance by Derek vari-. This episode is written by Geoffrey Gonda at by gen tean edited and produced by Jenny lower produced by towards lavon. Our executive producer is Marshall Louis created by her non Lopez for wondering. What if the experience of driving a luxury vehicle wasn't limited to just inside your car but extended out into the world around you introducing the well-connected two thousand nineteen Lincoln m Casey with a suite of social tech capability that connects the world inside to the world outside with Amazon, Alexa and abled with sink three apple Inc. You've access to all the skills and services you get on your echo, Alexis activated by the sound of your voice. Alexa. What's the weather like tomorrow? Currently? Forty, six and response. Using your car speakers with ways integration that appears right on the nap screen, you'll transform traffic jam streets into clear roads. 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