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Animation Podcast #119 - Missing Link with Laika's Chris Butler
"Welcome to the Bancroft brothers animation podcast. This is a show about the past present and future of animation and all things related hosted by former Disney animators, directors and authors, Tom Bancroft, and Tony Bancroft. This podcast is sponsored by Todd by a pro dot com. The place on the web to watch art instruction videos by the top Rosen comics, animation character, design and concept art in this episode. The Bancroft brothers are recording from like animation studios in Portland to talk with Chris Butler writer, and director of the stop motion film, the missing link in theaters now find out why we would never have the wonder that is the missing link without Tarzan to in some other Disney sequels. And now, here's the Bancroft brothers. Welcome to another Bank. Rob- brothers animation podcasts. Oh, yes, right now is this amazing. I'm filling a little Tinguely in amazing. All of a sudden today is a simple simply put awesome. I am excited. Tony we're inside of like animations to. Yes. Doing podcast right now. I know, and it's probably the best sounding podcasts we've ever done because the engineers here who engineer sound quality for the likes of Kubo. And all these these great films has set up a podcast station for us here. We're actually in the theater, you guys do dailies, I'm guessing. So this is a real new experience for us to be in a professional standing here. I I dunno. It's it's pretty it's funny because we're gonna talk about professionalism. I think a lot because that was sort of the running gag as we just took a tour of all these amazing sets from the new movie missing link. That's coming out soon by the top. We're actually going to try and time this that this podcast comes out. Right. As it's coming out here in this on the day that it releases. Yes, go out and see missing link for sure we're gonna talk about that more. Because today today, we have a very special guest. Not only did we get a tour of like saw the sets for missing link. But we also have the director Chris Butler in the house. Walk and Chris to the bankrupt brothers enemies. Clapping for yourself. That's why you keep clapping Chris. Hold day. Everyday. So one thing for sure is that we are in Portland, Oregon because every single male. I think we've seen today has a beard including Chris Chris Butler. Yeah, dzaleka. Yeah. He gets the Mike just so that we know who aren't doing that. No. It's really isn't. It's that kind of. Yeah. Podcast. We like you hear people eating. Okay. I'll drink some water really loudly. What do you call that ACL AM or whatever? I don't know what that is either. Now there it's thing. I didn't say the right ladders. So some people will get that gag Chris is a bit amazing. And I just want to start out saying, okay, not only did we just do a tour and got to be on the sets and guys these are sets like a live action set. But miniaturized like Honey, I shrunk the sat and but we got to see that. And and like animators were showing us around. So we got up just be with them and talk to them. We got super geeky. Oh, it was embarrassing. I think your staff here's going to talk about it later, and they're gonna go those guys are they really professional animators where the ever because but we're super geeky, then Chris saddest down. Tony you were there. That was like ten minutes ago. I remember it was like fifteen seconds ago. Anyway, any showed us ten minutes of missing link the whole like like a little girl. Tell us about what we just saw without giving away any of the story. But like that you cut this together. Yes. So we just finished the movie like last week. I think really. Yeah. So five years came to a crashing end last week, and so yeah, publicity. So we've got a lot of people coming into the studio. And I think so many people get a kick out of seeing how these things put together I mean, hopefully, they'll get a kick out the movie, but especially when we're we're talking to press and that bringing them around the sets, and showing them the puppets is always a special treats is kind of like getting into Santa's workshop if you like meeting all the else bid. Yeah. And we always like to show them a little treat of footage on this started. This started for Tom, and I because and the listeners at home will remember hopefully hurt our our great interview with Rechelle Lampton. She's one of the superstar animators at Leica, and she was on our show, and she talked a lot about working on missing linka ready. So to be able to sit down with the director of the film and get your perspectives tells a lot by the way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was all. You talk about you know. As so we're all cool. We only have fifteen listener they all signed the a sipped it in anyway. But she gave us a lot of details from her perspective. But I'm really interested dig deep with you on this one because this has got to be and we were talking about earlier, it's got to be one of the biggest scopes of a like a film the biggest like amount of castes in group shots and articulation of environments and even smaller CG elements special effects, and well it's on a scope that I've never seen before. Rely on that Chris you said right before we watch that ten minute trailer. He said, this is probably one of our most epoch films. I'm like really because I've seen Kubo and I've seen box trolls. I'm like there's and then we saw that trailer. I'm like, wow. Oh my gosh. So talk to us about that. Like to me. It's the environments that how many places you go that seems to be what's making this even more hours the big challenge on this movie. Was I wanted to. I mean, we call it a kaleidoscopic travelogue. And I at the start of this is said if David lean made around the world in eighteen days, starring laurel and hardy. This movie should. Yeah. Okay. So clearly we wanted to go epic and pushed the scope and scale, and I think, you know, every time we make one of these we tell people this is the most vicious movie we've done, and it's it's true. Every time we keep pushing the boundaries. But I think it's because of the innovations, and you know, all the way that we've done on previous movies that enables to see the opportunity for the next one. And you have a boss Travis. Knight who owns like, a basically has also been on the podcast and has been on our? And he he just said, yeah, let's do that. I think oh, you're crazy. I'm crazier that what he said you pretty much out crazy that. Yeah. I'm gonna throw all the money into that. They've always said like we don't want you to feel like you all the that. You're writing is infringed upon like we. I want you to have to write four stop motion. Right. And I actually the end of power Noam. And he said what you wanna do next. And I said, oh, three scripts and I liked the first act of three different very different projects. And I gave rather than pitching them too. I said read these you already had these scripts developed all three of these just the stacks of three of them because I'm being, you know, dip into these ideas on and off well for forever, and they were so different. And I think I had a favorite, but I wasn't quite show. So I kind of wanted to leave it up to him. And he he chose the same one that I wanted to make which was this which was miss Anne came missing link was originally, miss another title or something. Yeah. Developed obviously, originally it was seeking Shangrila. Oh, that's cool. Which is maybe a bit of a mouthful missing link is a lot of kids at Cascais shingle. Just having a hard time. I I'm always like, no, let's challenge these kids. Let's make them say difficult words. You don't have kids. Yeah. That's clear. Yeah. I don't know. If you read a lot shows books, but I mean, so that's let's back up to that. So this is your idea. This is your story. Yeah. How often does that happen where and what were you doing before that we're unanimity here? That's we. We didn't get to do our research before we got. Oh, let me start at the beginning. Nineteen seventy four now. I came hit to be head of story on carline. Okay. Way way back and towards the end of carline showed part of script to Henry Celik. And he said you should show this to Travis night. And that was again, it's. May repeating myself. It was the first act all paranoia n-. Okay. And he read it, and I was expecting to get notes back. And and instead he said, I wanna make this movie next. And I want you to be the director. Yeah. So I went back to my little office. And I kind of sat there thinking. Of course. I said, yes. Yeah. Turn that up now. And then I saw oh, and that was the other thing he said, I I wanna read the rest of it. And I said, oh the rest of the house. Computer paper. The second. I've never created ending to film. So I went to my room, and I thought oh. The rest. I mean, I it was written in foam. You know? I had the whole story out. Suddenly it became a reality. And it was terrifying. Exciting. And that that was all second movie hair was paranoid. And I co directed with some fell. Two of us. But it was it was my script. And then I started to Bella p- after that came out. I started to develop this. But in the meantime, I kind of going Volve with Kubo did a couple of drafts on that script. And. Yeah. At for a while there I was doing like Hoffa week on coop Hoffa week on on missing link. And then and then this happened stories always been deeply rooted. It sounds like in you where did that come from? Did you did you always have a passion for story and animation particularly or did it start? I don't know with children's books or things like that animation. I think there is a legend in my family. That says I drew an elephant when I was two years old. My my mom had started started with the heart stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And this is the thing she kept the elephant. Or was it just an elephant in the room? She kept the joy. And and the legs are in perspective. Really? Yeah. Three court. So you're saying you're you're a genius as a kid. I think I'm saying that if I could do that. Then why on I bet now? We all feel that way. Tom at three, and I'm like, why is it still same? Yeah. Snoopy and he's purple. Still still draws crayon. It's crazy. It's a restaurant last night. John crayon crayon regressed quite a bit. It was fun. Oh, join on tablecloth. Yeah. It's like, you know, hey knows paper. Yeah. Guess Tony draw very often. So every time he does joy likes to keep it. Portfolio. Keep your meal off Tom stains on my. So Kristie were and did you work at other studios than as a story artist? And that's how you came up. Well, I loved writing as much as I love drawing as a kid, and I knew I wanted to gain surrounded nation. I thought I wanted to be to animator I did a little bit of that. But that wasn't where my passion lie. And I thought the best way to combine the writing and the drawing is is a story. It's voting which is not necessarily true. But it definitely gave me the opportunity to to flex those kind of storytelling muscles. You have lots of muzzles, by the way. Thank you fit guy. All right, man, crashes on this. I wrote my bad on the. All right again. Here we go. You also our character designer, right? Because I I've heard from Rachelle who gave us the tour today that a lot of that you did a lot of incorporating your own skills and draw overs overload of the design work for missing link, which is a beautiful care on this film. Everybody is so strong. The production design alone is captivating the color sensibility, the EPA quality, the the amount of detail. But when I when I think about the character design in particular, we're animation podcast. So we get on these things, you know. But really shaped driven very simple shapes. I love there's a there's an there's an element of cartoonists to it that we just don't tend to see too much. When we're taking a tour, and they didn't catch this. But I said fares pills very Ronald Searle in the character design and styling, and they didn't get it. They were like who's that? The papal. They just just not remember I came from today. I know. Well, let's back up to that. Because I know where we're headed. But you didn't say what what other things you've worked on before. I when I got into the industry, it was the doldrums in the really wasn't a great deal going on. I was you know, living in London. There was a lot of commercial work. But really there was no film work beyond Disney and even Disney at that time was doing a low of straight to video sequels. You know, there wasn't a going. There were people making this the the first version of that at the. Remember the sequels from that time. Remember them. Oh for Disney city. No, I well. Yes directly. Yeah. Giga movie and I worked on tall Zan to my sins. You know favorite film by the talks about that all the time. He's like they did such a job. You know, what actually took it even further? I learned how to draw Tarzan from watching Tarzan to that got really negative. People listening to podcasts, including Chris, by the way that worked on that movie. I know. That's all I'm saying is that that wasn't a lot of opportunity for for people who didn't say live in LA. Right. Yeah. At that time. And then what happened? I actually I was doing some work for a studio in Ohio, briefly and character builders. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. They did a lot of the sequel where. Yeah. Yeah. And then I had about Tim button doing copes pride in London. So I moved back, and I just wanted the opportunity to work on a Tim button movie. And I love the designs. I loved that whole thing. It's like, you know, who who wouldn't want to be part of that. That was a great experience for me. Because I think as a story office made me rethink what I thought storyboarding was. Joe around fort on that too, right? Yeah. Yeah. He did. I met him early days on that. Of course, I was thinking that he was our teacher at Keller's. Joe for those that don't know at home. Joe ramp was a superstar story artists that Disney and then later went on to Pixar was one of the fundamental creators of a lot of the the the films that expired. For. Yeah. Genius. Also, incredibly generous. Yes. Humble generous giving yes. And so supportive like, I thought we would do all kinds of nonsense. But he was really finding the good in it, you know, an encouraging. He was it was great to what with him, however, briefly did he pass away during that? No, it was later as much letter because then was it didn't even work with Henry on on the peach one James and the giant that came before. Oh, yeah. I was going to correct you there. But I'm glad that Chris was able to do that. Forgive me. All sorry. Is this an animation? Okay. Chris fit right on. Podcasts from here on out. Yes. Oh, Coke's pride was happening. And as a story, all taste. You know, you often find yourself in a room with the story autists just sitting at desks join things and you look at while the people doing you look at what was pinned on the walls, and that's coal. But you seldom get the chance to kind of walk into the setting of the movie, and I thought that was what mazed me on Cope's bride was if I was trying to think of a camera angle, oh how scenes should work. I could actually don't wander onto the set need a nap just opened my mind up in so many ways it also made me think about camera work because I think you know, I was I was into this idea of storyboarding just basically gag based which it is for a lot of movies. But it's it's more than is much more than that. An and starting to think about where you put the camera really really made me a better film. Maker. I think because you'll limited where you can put the camera installed motion, and this is still fairly early days of style. So my guess is that you I would think you would limit yourself on the camera stuff right because you're going. Oh, they're not gonna be able to do this. Or this is and I'm do a swirling camera shot here because that's going to be that's gonna kill everybody. You could try. I mean. Yeah, you can throw some of those in. But I think what would it did those limitations creatively? Good because it made me think much more about why I was cutting to set shots rather than just flying the camera around his night while you, and is this an is this the time that you're starting to develop your own scripts and concepts and stuff. So was that that education pretty important and impactful, and where you started drive towards becoming a script writer, also concept guy. Yeah, I think so. And I would you know, as the story all tissue often get the chance to writes, a line of dialogue or Joe Aaron there, and yeah, it gets into the movie, and I got a few of those into Tarzan to all right? Not not the classics. My bubbles. All right. All right quiz time. Now trivia quiz time. What's what's line that you contributed to nightmare before Christmas? I didn't work on that. Oh, I'm sorry. Corks, right. Is what he meant corpse. Right. Yeah. Share brain. Yeah. Oh, I see. I can't remember that how about oh. Visit flatulence line. It probably was I definitely that was when I started doing what are used to call the off white shots, which is. Describing where you have a character swinging past camera and the whites. That was another sequence. My off wipe Herod. Well, see, I would imagine. It was the dog. I'm just trying to picture it. Tell Hitchcock started that way. You know? I think he was a little bit more PG bad and called it the, but y but I'm British British would be the best white or something cheeky cheek. Cheeky monster. Finally, we podcast. Anyway, so this ever so and were you working traditionally on doing like literal storeboard pitches? Like, we we loved the show, you know, people love to see the pitch stick in the whole thing. And and were you playing that up for for your director at the time where you really we early days. We were I was working with a guy called Jeff Lynch news, the head of story at the time, and we did do pitches to be honest. I've got hazy memories about this. That was a good period for in London. On exactly fresh fresh now. But it was it was a great experience. And and for me seem to seem to signal the start of widening of the industry, I think from that point on in my life, more and more things started to happen and more more different types of projects happen. Yeah. Good temps. Speaking of whitening. Tony. When I want to widen my imagination. I wanna get into art books, especially. Yeah. I go to stewarding books. Yes. I do. Yeah. And at stewarding books if you were to go to Stewart N G books dot com, you know, what can happen? Your mind is going to be blown. It's gonna be me widened. Yeah. So what you're gonna find. There is a plethora of books not every kind of art book that you can think of is at starting books stewarding has gone out much like missing link on adventures all throughout the world Condit comic con. John's and two on Jhelum and all over the world to find the best books. He he hunts these out. Suitcase. Yes. And he brings them back to our to his little world there Torrance, California. Yes. And then we'll populate that wonderful building with every book that you can think of buy from him. Do you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, what every person ever interviewed either have a book by themselves in that in that wonderful archive of books. Yes. Or they go there themselves and find wonderful books. Maybe make movies like missing link. I'm just so glad that you didn't use. But wipe is your transition. It was tempting. I went to way it was like. Work. Anyway, thank you starting books for being a sponsor of the Bank brothers podcast now back to late in the Trump to. Transition classic when you were making that classic. No. So you wanna backup you said? 'cause I was just blown away. And I just think that something that even as animators, we don't even think about it. But we're making the classics the other classic speed of the beast and linking and things like that. Like there was obvious overlap in departments. And so we were they were storyboarding all the way through animation oftentimes well past when they should have been right changed the ending. We're about to the ending. You know what I mean? Like, okay. So, but you said that that even on corpse bride that you were storyboarding while they're sets were being shot. And that's something that I must admit even I hadn't really considered is like you think that you'd have to have everything kinda buttoned up all the storyboards done. It's all been approved now start animating, but they're definitely is overlapped their sequences that have been approved at now we can start animating while you're still storyboarding the ending or something like that. So tell us about in the perfect world. Because now we're like where everything is world, and how crazy and I want apply this more to like now and probably missing link. I really want to talk about Sealink. So like, we're there a lot of story changes going on all the way up to the end. And how does that affect filming? No, actually that wasn't. I think I've been in experience because that's pretty much every animated movie, and it's not the it's not what you want. No. It's not. But it's it's fairly typical. And you get to the point where people like will. When did you have your story meltdown, which is the phrase, and I I don't wanna meltdown. I I would really like to know what story I'm telling up front. I think you and you can end up with amazing stories amazing movies with that going on. But I don't think it's necessary. We should seek it out. Right. You're saying and so because I'm on this one in particular because I'm directing and writing it. It's already kind of in my head. When I write I've got a little movie playing in my head. So I shouldn't be in reinventing. What I'm what I'm setting out to do. You know, I I think also because we're still, you know, a fairly small studio in in the grand scheme of things. So we we can't really afford to develop a movie put back into development and spin wheels on it several years. We just we just can't. Yeah. So we need to be very clear about the movie when my making up front an especially when you come to the stop motion wealth when building sets you do not want to be in a situation where you built a sat or puppet that you then caught all sets. I was amaz rebel are wonderful tour guide today was telling us that some of these sets took a year to actually fabricate actually build out make some designed from drawing all the way to. Probably longer actually. Yeah. No, I think those buildings saying, although I don't know. I don't know if she was telling the truth, it's funny because some of the very best pieces of work and did up shots in the movie. So like the this like a wall of timber in a logging town then fills the frame online. This you know, said line on his horses will in front of it. That's that's the artwork and that ended up being a shelter in the movie. So some of those sets where in existence five years ago, and it still takes that long. You know to get just okay. Everything about what you guys do those me away and we've made two animated films for Disney. Right. So like, you'd think we've seen crazy. You guys are easier. And I just I love it so much all seem normal to like, no is twitching and things like that. Stutters medicated. Yeah. Everybody's very very. The beard wax. Maybe. Mouth my shining. Yeah. Good. Thank you. But just to go along with that is like every corner we took every set we just took a tour of with some new Josh dropping kind of experience. And I know it's all set up you're doing publicity right now. And yeah, the reporters they they're gonna drop their jaws about it almost anything because they don't get any of this. Right. But we we get a lot of this. I have just you know, we don't do this day today. But like, obviously we've done a little stop motion. We told you that. But that's how we got into this. Getting a job now. Anyone we measure that we? No. But, but we know a little bit about is what I'm saying. Obviously, we know a decent amount about Adamishin in general. So we're like digging a little bit deeper probably asking questions about like, why the second are you saying here like you're doing we're seeing three prints of faces and stuff like that. And you're doing blurred drawings. That are well what we're come blurred drawings. We're blurred images images knows is on this the this one three prince, and you guys take them out just to kind of like show, the press people for like we're getting even more into that kind of stuff. And I'm like, he how you move the I here in he's like getting out of razor blade. Any kind of just a move the poop pupil over to look to the left. That's what you gotta do. And we're looking at the sets are you cl- comment underneath ear like unscrew that? And I mean, it's amazing like I'm just going. You got Woodworkers here your carpet that are twenty four seven years, and there's there's costumers. And it's Cameron. You have that too. It's not only the most like craftsman type of film making. I think, but it also combines there's elements of theater, and what you do there's elements of live action shooting. There's Ellen's of animation. It's all combined. Yeah. Is that is that kind of what you love about stop motion. Or what what is it that draws our show? I am not a stop motion purist by any means. I love it. And I found my way to it which I wasn't expecting. I thought I was too guy forever. But I think what's special about what we're doing here is that is a hybridization in the best possible way. We all utilizing all the different mediums. We'll utilizing everyone skills as autism crafts people in order to put the best image onscreen. And you know, you talking about the face Lana mation. Well, those Smith's that comes from a to d sensibly that comes from two d Altus were coming up with those original ideas, we went with two the animators at the start of the project. To you know, to kind of get a feeling for what the character Kabeya. Welcome by the way. Tom's own to de animate. I created smears. That's all I'm saying. At least somebody. Right bankroll. Obvious mary. Okay. So and you didn't now you're not you're not at you haven't done. Stop motion animation yourself. Correct. No. But I even when I was working in commercials in England. I worked in a studio that was kind of noted for doing a mix of stop motion and today, so it was always around. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I I think you said at the beginning, you know, I it is it's like live action a miniature. It's it's that part of it where you'll getting real lights on real objects is to me fundamental to why stop motion, so charming, it is it is a real thing. It is an anonymous object coming to life in front of you. And I think that taps into something from your childhood, you know, you want when you make you play with your toys, and you imagine them coming to life will. That's what this is. I think when you see something that's being handmade and shot with real light on a screening fronts view. It is compelling. It does invite you into it. In a way, that's caught to put your finger on. And I think it's to do with the imperfections. Yes. Real life. Yes. That's what I love about it too. Is that as as sophisticated as the Leica films have gotten over the years, and they and they do each one is amazing each one gets better and better and more opulent more wonderful and more beautiful than the last. But it's still has it still has the hand of the animator in there. And I love that. I love that. You guys are are willing to have those imperfections be a part of that. You're not trying to work those out totally. And yet there is a gracefulness in a smoothness mazing quality to the animation, but it, but it's still very much handcrafted. Yeah. And real life is imperfectly for me. I always mention costumes because you know, if you've got a close up of miniature costume, and you see the stitching, and you see all the little has and fibers. That's chaos, and that's hard to replicate. And in. The computer, but but it, but like years ago you'd not only see those fibers and stuff, but they'd be jiggling anonymity. Yeah. What's amazing about while? Yeah. You're talking about being handcrafted and priding in that the level perfectionism that you guys are now reaching is what's making guys really stand out to though. And it's making it like we were joking around the whole time like we would ask questions to the animators as give us a tour of Rochelle and the couple of the guys am constantly going. Wait when this happens where like, you you hit that table, you're trying to reach over to get that guy an animate him and move him. And like, but you hit that table. Maybe you didn't know it. But like it moved a little bit. Like would would you do when you see playback, and you see that they're like well that just we don't do that. We're professionals. Okay. That'd be running gag. It's like, no. We don't do pros ever. Every question that ahead. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, like it's that sort of weird Jackson, you know, that you have going on here where you're like, no, we're handcrafted, but the level of professionalism and stuff that we just saw is amazing. You think about the the the the movies, we grew up watching the the ones that were mind blowing in their effects is still mind blowing you watched the, you know, the the the walkers in in Empire Strikes Back, right? Stop motion, you know. And they and they still hold up, and they still amazing to look at. And that that's because they were pros. Yes. As well. Done as well dot then. Right. So Chris now, you're and that level of detail we were talking about this too. And we turn around with the animators at the end of the day the audience while they they may never appreciate that level of quality. Like, we do end. It is incredible. And it is intense. But at the end of the day, the audience is going to care. Or more about the story. They're going to go see this movie because they they think the characters look, cool and fun and funny. And and they they see something there in the story in the concept. So take us back for missing link. Tell us a little bit about not only where the where the concept came from. But I'm always we haven't seen the feature yet. So I'm not quite sure what the theme in the movie is for you as a writer. How early do you start kind of connecting a concepts with a theme? And how important is that to you and your script scriptwriting? I think before I start writing for real like, I might have a hook all of the very start of an idea that I think might be coal. And in this case that hook was if Bigfoot was lonely, and he read about yetis in the Himalayas. What would he do to to to go and find them? And then I was also in this particular movie, I really wanted to make kind of an. Adventure movie. I Indiana Jones made shallow combs meets planes, trains, ultima bills. That was that was taught that pitch by the way. Yeah. That's people need to hear like when I saw the trailer. We just saw this last ten minutes that you just showed us. But when I saw the first trailer like I did know that the he's were in it. And we and so those secret, but because that was part of your original pitch, right? Is that that's the idea? Would he consider them brothers? Right. And yeah, I'm to that. I'm not alone. There's others like me. That's where the thing comes in. So, and I, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence. That so many kids movies have has the theme fellowship friendship family. Yeah. Verse one. Yeah. And also when your kid you that's important to you. But it's also how you fit into the world, what are you going to become? So I think that crops up naturally in a lot of kids entertainment for me, though. The I think the central idea that really got this moving when I was writing it was identity, and how your identity is what you give. Self not what the people put upon you. And I think all these characters in the movie trying to find this mythical place that they've put up on a pedestal where they think they can belong, but it's not necessarily the truth. So there were couple of things that came together. There was these spunky hooky ideas that I thought that would be cool. But then when I see them together it immediately became about this this theme of fellowship. An and how you guys have always had really great casts and the like is movies. You know, the the voice cast how how is that chosen for missing link. Had must have been obviously, your main character the missing link. The the yeti must have been the really tough one to find. He's a no eight let's clear this up. He's a big yetis are Hemingway as oh, okay. Says ask well, let's let's say little crypto zoology when I won't please do need this often. Just. Actually sasquatch is the Pacific northwest. Okay. Canada and Bigfoot some same thing. Same things thing. Okay. Actually, neither of the well Bigfoot was not going to the phrase until I believe I decided the night remember out nineteen thirties all the nineteen fifties. I don't care I set in Victorian times because that was cool. Yeah. And yes, yetis all the Himalayas. There is a big spice between them. Now. Also called the abominable snowman. That's right. That's right. So we could clear that for Tony most of the audience didn't need to hear it because it's so obvious but Tony's on track. Now, Chris we can include him and interview. Thank you. I included ahead. Had a good question. It was go along with that. And now, I've forgotten it. Thank you for your tangent. Wow. So tangents this normal. What I like to do. When I'm filling ten gentle, if that's a word, I can say is I like to pull out my scripts wallet sketch wallet. What's this sketch wall sketch wallet? It's actually what it sounds like. It's two things one. It's a sketchbook really nice little MO skin kind of sketchbook, and it stuck into a wallet rent in the middle of it. And so you can have your cards and your billfold in there. Your dollars your sense take that around go out to lunch what I like to do stop at the airport. Pull out my sketch, wallet doodles. There's a little pencil like a golf sized pencil. That's right, Tom, and when you pull that up pencil out, and you could just doodle anywhere. You know, Chris Butler he's going to get a sketch while for being on the show today. So when he gets a sketch while you might pull out schedule and ideas for an act one to some new movie right this act one because that's a love to see him come up with ending. I actually I do that is actually what I do. Thank you very much. Oh, right. That in your schedule. Yeah. He showed you go to sketch wallet dot com. They come in all kinds of different sizes, some of them fit nicely into your purse or into your back pocket. Some of them are like post at note sizes, which is really popular these days. And so you could just do little jot down notes and stuff like that. Pop. It in your pocket. You're good to go great for traveling for the artist. So check it out sketch wallet sketch, wallet dot com. So Chris, I I don't know if you know this. But as you know, I am trying to get into like and. Yeah. I created my first animation real today. While we were on the set actually got to sit down and do an inset. I did a little animation literally on one of your sets. It was a bar scene was supposed to be there or touch anything as a matter of fact, but there was a camera setup. And somebody said this keyboard is how we shoot it. And I said, oh, I have a water bottle here. Oh, what if actually animated that right now and had it slid up and kinda came up to the bar and slowed in the land Mesa? Yeah. I did and it stopped at the bars. If it was about to order a drink, but it doesn't need to. That's the irony. That's act one. Okay. And then have. I animated that today at using the highest end equipment asset worth hundreds of thousands of dollars at least a million. Yeah. And created a piece I think it's going to be in the I think there's a sequel probably coming up know. Definitely. Yeah. So we'll may have you seen the missing link to and that should be in the movies on saying, I don't know. I'm not really working toward a question at all of the sort of tell you that I animated today. Yeah. Captive is called pixel as Asian though. Really? Yeah. It's it's a form of stop motion animation. But not really at the level. Probably. Well, we'll get your job armature, and in it just couldn't see it. And I didn't use it. There is some inside of it. I can't wait to see this. You you you say. That was pretty much. What it looked like? Oh, yeah. You don't need to. Reference. It look like that. So I just wanna say I've been there done that. I know what it's like to be an animated strenuous. I actually have a question about missing link. I'd like to get. So we talk about this missing link. It comes out August. I wanna say August. Sorry, April April twelve I knew. Yeah. I should know this every day. I mean, the good thing is that we're gonna be releasing this podcast right before the release. So we again think about the date just go tonight go tonight because releasing probably right now. Right as we are sitting here in the future. Go see the movie this weekend and enjoy missing link. And now Chris is there is there? A like a movie is there is there a kind of story that I mean, all the students I want to have kind of a brand for themselves. There's not that. These are all let's let's not answer Chris. Okay. Wow. A slap. He's literally slap him. Because usually we do these podcasts, and he's three thousand miles away from me. Can I slap? Tony. Yeah. So Chris, what is what is it like a movie, and and is that changing we end how do you market these things you think about the marketing when you start coming up with the concepts? I have a lot of questions along those lines. I don't think about the marketing when I come up with the concept because I think that's a terrible way to make a movie he's a director. Yeah. Yeah. And marketing is is no lie world. Let's just leave it. Yeah. But but with regard to the branding thing. I you know, I asked this a lot. And I think the only way I can consider like as having a brand is in that each time we wanna make a different kind of movie, even and you're not even saying a stop motion movie. Well, I suppose, but I currently stop motion or hybrid at least. But I do think we all trying to make movies that all not just pushing the envelope in in terms of the technical innovation. But also narrative -ly, I think we Travis suddenly I want to keep doing new things after paranormal, you know, I did zombie movie for kids, and it's like, well, what do I do next? I want to do as far away from that as I can. And that was kind of stepping out of the shadows. And doing something that was big and bold and colorful, it is very colorful. We wanted to push stop motion has this. This this history of of being this creepy medium, and that goes all the way back to you and stuff, right? And even even before that, you know, monsters, it was special effects back in the day. But even before that, you know, if you look at the very origins of stop motion, it is it is the manipulation of, you know, chicken bones, or, you know, if you look at starve each which is kind of the tax taxidermy side of things and you look at the brothers quay. You look spank Maya this history of of creepy nece. And I think it's almost because it's inevitable. Very creepy. People will it's it's move. It's bringing things to life. Yeah. Yeah. Which there is something that a little bit worried about that. Yeah. But I don't want people to think to assume that every time is stop motion movie comes out that it's it's gonna be nightmare before Christmas. 'cause it's not we can tell any kind of story. And I think that's what we wanna do. And it became clear to me that I wanted to do just passively autistic. I wanted to do something different. So I was pleased when when Trump is run along with me, and I would say that. You could probably expect like to make him a movie in any Jonah, but within the medium of stomachache animation. Well, let's dig deeper on our direction because that is to me the thing that we showed us to ten minutes. Just now the art direction is so I pop ING, and you could say that about all the movies here like that definitely super strong art direction. But this one very colorful, I at say more colorful than any other films. Norman may maybe the other one that's a little color. Yeah, zombies. Okay. But but I will say this is very colorful. And when we saw the shots of going to the Hemilae as into all the different right in the Victorian towns and the train in all the stuff just loved it. And and very cinematic cinematic, I would say, this is even more. So sitting next to you as we're watching it. And there was this great shot. And I and I did it a side with you. That one and it was this shot where we start of on the ground or the foot of. Yeah. I think it was one of the keys, and we pan up and come around this whole moving CARA sweeping thing going around back behind the group as they're marching on. And it was just extremely cinematic hint seen a shot like that in a in a like, a film and immediately reacted to it. It was very much David lenient kind of a shot. Lenient? I like that does how you set. Anyway, do you have somebody 'cause I don't ever often hear about it? We talk about the design work and stuff like that. But at like, we hear more about the directors in the animators, and I don't know why that is maybe it's just a, but is there was an art director title here. Well, the production designer who has been at the studio for a long time. That's Nelson Lowry and I've worked with him. He also with him on net from most of the films here. Yes actual. Box. Trolls and carline paranoia n- and Kubo and this okay? And he was involved in the others as well. He's he is that bat that created foresee. I mean, he's fantastic. There is. There's nothing that he can't conceptualize. I think and the the the other thing about him so important, I think is that he has a thorough understanding of the medium he understands stop motion more than more than anyone. So I think that probably is that does inform the production designed to some extent because he knows how we can practically realize some of the imagery that we're creating you know, it's one thing to do. Everyone seen lots of gorgeous concept paintings, especially in all of books, and you know, but it's it's it's a different thing to actually see that on the screen in the final film. And I think more than any movie we've done that's the case with with this movie. A lot of the concept odd is does actually make its way into the movie. And I think that's Nelson, you know, Nelson and a huge team very very talented office in the in the we don't talk about this often when it comes to like, it's. It's interesting to me because I think back of you know, the second goal needs a Disney and stuff the early press was always about animation in China educate, the press of how to DNA nations done, right? Like, it was sort of this resurgence of of animations, amazing, so hard and all that. And now, you're kind of reliving that in a way they're going to the press. Look, how hard this animation is the figurine you could touch it. And it's like in their blown away everything. Yeah. Circles the hair on fire. And then, but but you don't you don't play up your artists a whole lot. I mean, this is just personal you have art of I guess, but like I don't ever hear from these guys oppression artists. Are they a lot of them are freelancers, or do you have a lot of we house? We have a lot of in house and actually with every movie, the we do get a lot of that stuff out the no you don't. Yeah. We in fact, we do hit out. I I am going to reach across this table and slap you dome because I can't. Tony did are asking for. No, no, no. We do. I mean, there's an awful lot of press out there for like as an example, Deborah cook his costume designer. Did you see? Yeah. I haven't seen her done. You've had videos behind the scenes I actually bought from Kubo. There was an extensive amount of publicize in different aspects and different job placements and stuff. And I think there was actually little mini documentary about her work specifically, right? It's quite possible. We we tend to do a lot of those behind the scenes things. I know I have seen one was amazing. I think it was the end of the like the final shot, right? Wasn't using the credits for Charles that intimated the big giant galaxy. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And there was it was one of night Travis. Thank you. Your boss. Animating the two characters at the end outboxed troll. Yes. That was a and you could see onto on. Yeah. That's an we don't one of those on this movie as well at the tag at the end. Oh, great. In fact, I think the end credits on this movie all the best that we don't. I mean, obviously, I'm biased, but you know, typically, we've done two de animated end credits. And I wanted to do something different on this. And we've got this this device in the movie when traveling great distances, they characters hands lodge scale hands putting maps and drawing the they've routes across the well, that's not the Indiana Jones, you know, the line crossing. Yes in the globe, and they work. So well, they looked so good that I thought maybe we could do that full the end credits where it's it's a hands are making the credit installed motion on time. I think we've done that. Well, we. Did I've stop motion elements to the credit song carline this. Spoiler alert. Everybody. There's no it's wet sitting through is what I'm saying day till the to make sure you watch that all the way through so going back to the productions on a little bit. Did you guys have an influence? I know there's a painter what a beer stat. I think it is. Did you look at certain paintings, and and environmental things for? Yeah. Influence the production design. So right at the stall came up with a look book was just me on the on the project was may. And I put together a lot of my influences into a book, then show off to say we're going on and it was National Geographic photography. That was a big one, particularly Steve McCurry the poultry that he does. And I also referenced the even the coupla which you guys will know that was part of you said, Elliot, the the the amount stylized and the characters I really wanted to push that. And you can't get. More pushed than the design in faith in the cobbler. Yeah. And there was also the the element of patenting the production designer on the in the coupler was an illustrated cold Cain who I'm a big fan of. And there was something about his work that spoke to me as having a Victorian, sensibility, dense detail and lots of repetition and lots of patenting and because the Victorian age simple shapes time. Yeah, that's right. And the Victorian age was all about panting. If you look at Victorian wool papers, and you know, you're saying pattern patterning. Okay. Yeah. Sorry is it my accident? Yeah. It's cute. I mean, let him finish. Thank you. I love it keep going anyway. Yes. That's what we did the end. Okay. Tom. Remember about wallpaper patterning pats that yeah. So it just made these was some of my Elliott influences. And then I was working with to concept artists Dalma, Santiago Montiel, and they did a lot of paintings. I did a lot of drawings, bro. And guys you roles character designer and also very, well, regarded highly regarded comic artist and illustrates a Warrick Johnson Cadwell. And he did his pass the whole world which was hugely influential and inspirational to me, so it's like this coal team. And then I started working with Nelson. I wanted it to be Nelson at wet with them in the past. I knew anyone could could pull this off. It was him. And so he took all these things that I liked and made a cohesive whole, and then and then tend into its own thing was he was was Nelson really particularly Nunnelee influenced by the package that you gave him, but this idea of going kind of brighter and more saturated with color was that some he was on board with day one. Yeah. I think we all wet because it was like, let's do something different. But let's see how far we can push this. And I think the color thing was like Nelson came up with this idea of thing in the sets in in a way that blows my mind. He'd mix in colas within the paint job of on an object that from a distance would give it another feel. We tried not to have pure blacks. We had colors in overshadows all that kind of stuff it. I mean, it's mind blowing that it actually worked. But it it it did. And I well you when we watched the ten minute trail you kept going on that kala corrected. And we're like we've seen the sets Alrighty beautiful. How raw footage must still be. And it was by the way, still amazing. If you didn't tell us that we would have no so beautiful and saturated wait till you see the fine either way. Yeah. It is going to be one of those things that I can't wait to show my kids. I'm going to take them, you know, this opening weekend as we sit here. Now, it's happening. So go see it again. But I I'm really excited just to see the level the production design throughout because one of the things that I took away from the ten minutes sizzle reel that you showed us is that and we talked to we looted to this a little bit already. It's got a vast scope to it. I really love that. You're pulling the camera out, and we're really being a part of its journey movie. Right. Yeah. So we're really feel like we're part of that journey, but we're also appreciating the these long distance shots. I've worked on movies before one of a momentum here Lon. Oh thing which I co directed. I don't know if I mentioned that before on the podcasts, but we we wanted to put a lot more of those kind of vista traveling shots and what but when you get down to the story element. It's always hard. You gotta you gotta really open the film up and let it breathe to have those kind of. Vista shots. Was that was I'd love to hear your feelings about that. Was that hard to get to for you? I know exactly what you mean. They all usually the first shots to go. Yes. Trying to trim this thing. And I didn't want that to be the case because. The movie was so big in terms of its scope that if you took those out, I don't think you would get the sense of travel that you talking about and I had to be really frugal with with shot choices. So for example, we see New York, but we see it. So briefly it it's a handful of shots, and it's really the the main characters boarding ship. That's leaving New York. But I wanted to get across they were in this bustling new docks. But I couldn't do crowd scenes with millions of people, and I couldn't we couldn't construct all you know, dogs. So I did like a montage of masts and rigging and an couple of very well composed y two shots like this one of them sailing past the statue of liberty. By the way, we built that statue of liberty as as a model on him one show. We saw the exercise we went on the sets that had the statue of liberty in it. And I thought oh my gosh. Put so much attention to detail. And this must be in multiple note to hear you say, it's only that's mind blowing is that you have to be thinking about that. I can't just establish like in a in a two two-day film, even three d really? Yeah. But tutti, especially that's one background painting. Right. Okay. We'll do that and stab New York. They're coming into New York. It's majestic painting. But for you, guys, you're like, okay. This is going to be, you know, a year worth of work or whatever lasts for that one or two people. So you know, we gotta use that a little bit more. Are we got to cut it? And that's the that's the thing that I resist because if you if you trying to say this movie is big you can't pull out all the all right? I love it. I mean, I was jealous. I gotta say to seeing this is real and seeing a lot of those fisa shots that you put in just ten minute. Sizzle reel made me think. Oh my gosh. If there's if these are in the sizzle reel. I'm sure the movie has even more and know about. It did happen on LAN when we were making that movie that we had to pull those kind of shots. How do you as a director? I mean, obviously, you're passionate about it. You you you wanted you've justified it already just what you said to us. But is that a struggle? I'm just interested in the production side of it who are you? Is it a struggle between you and the producer or the budget? Yeah. The budgets. How? Are you as the director responsible? But I know that this was a very in terms of writing. This was an irresponsible move. But I think it's probably at this point. I should shout out to the via fax department because that's what's abled this. And I think because we have a in house via fax department on by the effects obvious. I mean digital because they are in house. They all Paul of the conversation from day one. This is not something that joins through pre production production. They are there from the initial discussions. And we actually did something on this movie called a book at list where we went through the script. And the story does that we had and we try to analyze what it meant like what does this wide shot mean who would do that who's table with that fall upon and early in the production, and I really alley. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, things change a lot. I you know production. They never get any any credit when it comes to publicity. Oh promotion, but. There is an all me of people who are trying to desperately to make this this craziness work. Oh, I I was actually thinking about that. As we've been talking about. This is like we know the pressure on the to decide of like, oh, we're still storyboarding. We're making changes here. Yeah. But we have all these people over here waiting. Yes. Build that set or whatever with you guys lay it out eight making for that, whatever that we know it's a big ballroom secret. So we got a this is another film. I guess that's bucks strolls. But you know, we know that there's going to be a lot of work there. We have to get that done. You got to figure it out now. But you're like, well as director and head a story in a way, at least, you're going. Yeah. But I am worked out what happens before and after it, right? There must be tremendous pressure there for you. There is an I nine there's never a point way way. You think I go to exactly right? Like, I'm very happy with the movie. But I I if you gave me the chance I would still go back in and tweak. But I I guess that's that's fine. Autism. Yeah. Yeah. I all the time. And I'm sure you do too is that we we are given boxes to work in this not a box trope. But creatively. I think it's always a good thing to have boxes. Do you find that in your work that I'm so thankful for the budget at the end of the day? I'm so thankful for the schedule. I'm so thankful that I have a release date. They they seem like such negatives. When they first come about. But it wouldn't you say, isn't it? Those those boxes that we have to work in directors that that ultimately help us to refine what we need to do. Absolutely. We all not like renaissance poets just getting about writing whenever we feel like we we up providing entertainment, we all producing something that costs money just second by second. Having those parameters I think makes us unique as artists and in a way, and and you need premises like. Deadlines help you make decisions down to it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I gonna talk because I know we're gonna have to wrap up pretty soon real one about the voice casting. So while I was watching that. And I had I've still not figured I assume because it's between and a lotta takes place in England or with English characters. My sumptious is that you have a very English cast voice casting wise, but I didn't recognize who's doing the main role of missing link Zak. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That went right over my head is so charming in that role. I'd love to know yet. How did that cast in come about for you? So you start casting very very allies, as you know, when you you write down that wishlist of who you think you you could consider and for me, especially when I'm when I'm writing I have actors in my head when I'm writing dialogue because it helps foam informed, the character and full fa most of those main characters I got who I wanted which isn't always the case. But I wanted as an example, Hugh Jackman who's not British. But his accent is still better the mind. He I even incorporated some of his features into the alley designs of Solano. And when I got into my head that it needed to be him. I didn't let it go. Like we pursued him a criminally. For several months. Zach. I knew I wanted it to be him. Because they're, you know, this character has lived alone for a long time, and he is stepping stepping out into this wide. Well, that he's not really comfortable with nor does he really understand. So he's he's the something a little bit of the wealthy and that that's Zack's Huma. I think is at its best where it's slightly uncomfortable. He slightly misplaced. Yes displaced. And so I knew I wanted that. What I what was a huge treat was how much vulnerability. Yeah. That he brought to that character. Yeah. You wouldn't think you'd get that Zach right there? Yeah. Naive and vulnerability and sweetness to that character. That is exactly what I wanted. And what I found with him was that the original dialogue that I'd written for that. Character was a little bit it just the construction of it was a little different. And when he was recoding those first few sessions, he was moving stuff around and an instantly. I was rewriting stuff jazz voice was like this. This is better. This is that character, boys boys charm, he's kind of gone a little higher. It feels like in his voice. And and there's a there's a spirit about his performance that I think is exactly what you said just certain kind of boyish innocence. That's it. And you know, this is off us movie where the main protagonist is a child. But which was another exciting thing for me. But link does kind of provide that, yeah, I'll like role sense because he is so innocent, and you get a lot of the fish out of. Whoa. Whoa. Are kind of storytelling right because he's thrown into this world of humans and things like that magin again. I haven't seen the whole movie, but it looks like a fascinating turn and spin for this character. And do you think you think the voice towns that you've attached to it kinda lend to that too? Yes show. I mean that was Paul. I definitely wanted. The main the central relationship is align all and Mr. link I that was kind of in my head. It was if Selena all show combs than link is very Harry Watson. Okay. That was the the in and Yang thing. I think those kinds of buddy relationships again, looking at planes, trains and automobiles what best when they such opposites that they shouldn't get on. But they complement each other. Right. And I I must admit the first trailer. And that's why won't everybody. Go see this movie because I I really felt like I didn't get a grasp of what the whole film was about. Right. And that's true. And you don't ever want to watch trailing get get everything. I watched many of those. I'm like don't need to go. See that scene beginning middle end. But so I appreciate it overall. But there is like the buddy side of it. Yeah. I did not see that in the trailer. Lots of that what the what their relationship was. I didn't quite get that in the trailer. I didn't get the the yeti thing that there's a whole nother adventure that they go on to discover that and those seem like pretty prepaid legal things. Are you guys releasing at other trailer? I guess we have to go to so show, which you probably saw the ferry fun. Yeah. Maybe the second one. So check out the second one. Yeah pumped. Yeah. I think it's it's more narrative Lee driven I think and now I wanna go now. I hope this isn't a big subject, but missing link calling it missing link on him a missing link is evolution kind of a big part of this story. I didn't see that coming really with him being a big foot. I guess it is and that it gives all the cards is a revolving. So it's kind of not to that. I see and I'd say one of the characters that's against Solano is very narrow minded. It's not just about that. He's not reminded about everything. He is the the Victorian. You know, great white hunter, the the ultimate states is quo. He's an he's a wealthy privileged awful, man. Who wants? Everyone in the place as long as it's beneath him. And so really that tapped into into his motivation and in looking for a reason to to stump. If you like on Silina's aspirations if that makes sense. Well, that's also driver then for sir, Lionel, right? He wants to prove his theory is and what he believes and the world should be or is. And that's the thing is that he wants to be a member of this awful club. And he's really not show. Why the gives him what he thinks credibility. Yeah. Right. And really it's not what he needs. All that you go into an you know this morning, but as a writer is that you go into a character and their once. In the beginning are opposite of what they actually fill that they need. Right. And so do you look at your characters when you're stretching structure in them in the beginning to say, okay. This is what he wants. But what he really needs is this. So that you're looking at that overall art. Yeah. I think so suddenly I knew with salon oil that he's. He's eccentric. And he's challenging character. Not exactly what I can say here. I have a wet to describe him. He probably podcast killing and the trailer that he wasn't. He wasn't quite likable, th at least the in the movie. So that's I'm that's the trick. Because you have a character who is very selfish, and and I selected by choice, and and driven by really not great motives, but he's also, you know, the lead leading man at the movie, and where he gets to is is, you know, he he has full character. So he changes, he lends what's important. So you want this character to have genuine flaws those among my favorite, you know, leading characters in movie all the ones that have flaws, and even you know again shallow combs. It's such an eccentric. I mean, he's borderline sociopathic. He has an inability to interact with people on on a, you know, a social everything's intellectual and it makes him riveting. When you put that kind of character into a into a situation with someone else. You already have an interesting dynamic, and that's what I wanted with saliva. But I also wanted him to be charming Paul the reason why I pursued Hugh Jackman he's got that. Yeah. Just effortless just uses out him. And and also, I think the thing that is there from the start with with line is appealing is his passion for what he's into, you know, his for his pursuit and that kind of gay de childlike passion Hugo as well. So hopefully, you've got a character that is incredibly flawed, but he still compelling still interesting, and he's still likable, and I think that's the kind of complex to you you want in in Yeomen cart. So when you said at the beginning of the podcast that Sherlock Holmes meets Indiana. Indiana Jones meets slain trains, AK, I got the plane strays on the Bill of bills when we saw the ten minutes and difficult the other one. The Holmes is that basically his personality that een resent. Exactly. No. I mean, I think it was partly the setting because I love the Victorian time. Okay. I mean, he is he is essentially a story elements. Okay. Yeah. But it's definitely a double acts, you know, and they're off on this adventure together. I think the the the Victorian setting for me provided this this canvas which was all about exploration. The weld was opening up, you know, and any contemporary story. Everyone knows everything. Yeah. And has access to information about everything Google generation. Yeah. And I I wanted it to be, you know, the start of of a new age, you know, the Victorian age was really an exciting time in terms of invention an exploration, but but it also had a lot of limitations. And I thought that was an interesting place, you know. Just at the story as a director, and you know, this more than anybody. We're only as good as our crew. And you've got a vast amount of really talent here at like, a is there a sequence that you look at yourself that when you were matching it as a writer the outcome of it far surpassed what your crew added to it far surpass what your magic nation was for that sequence. And without too, many spoilers. Can you tell us what that might be? I mean, I'm I'm wild by. I'm not just saying this. I am wowed by the whole thing. Because what was in my head all those years ago is pretty much on the screen and well better better than what was in my head. And that's really what you want. I think. What impressed me the most was we have some big action sequences that that I just did not know whether we were going to be able to do them, you think about you know, I I was really leaning on right is at the lost quite law in terms of inspiration. And so I wanted this big action sequence that had a narrative to it. Don't just quick cuts a quick montage of of chaos, but whether it's a store beginning middle and end to the sequence itself, and I think spill begged at that incredibly well. Yeah. And so this this huge climactic battle. I went ruin it. But it's on a an ice bridge miles up in the Himalayas, which is collapsing while the characters all having a fight uh hanging over, and it was a huge amount Kara fee and some of the shots like ten frames long. You should not be allowed to do that install. Motion. Everyone shots need setup. Time in the set of his crazy. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, really someone should stop mate, and and looking at those boards, and that sequence was voted by guy cold all of Thomas just phenomenal looking at that in the animated. And I was thinking no way no way. So I'm impressed that we not only realized it but made it to an I shouldn't be possible. I, you know at time we are going to have to wrap up. Yes has been amazing. And I know Tony I both we want to just keep talking about. It doesn't ask questions sorta talk about it. Because we're so blown away today. This has been an incredible experience. I want to thank all of like for allowing us to be here. And just having this time with you to do a podcast with all the business of going on and sell in the moving getting it out there, publicity and stuff. Thank you so much for telling and for Rachel Rochelle. Sorry, we keep color. Rachel. Good friend that set all this up is Rachelle over that. She's she's looking at you. Now Dacca's hit him in the head. Everybody's hitting me. Get wacked up. So that I had fun, right? Oh. But yeah, please go see missing link comes out this weekend as we post this podcast, please go see it, and you know, it's important to support animation. We were animation podcasts. I want to say this to all our listeners if you love animation support animation by going to see it the weekend. It comes out. I can't tell you how important impactful that. As a business standpoint, it means that like can go on continuing to make these masterful films, which we all love and enjoy so support. But that's an easy plea guys. This is going to be a good one. I know. Really cat go it opening weekend. What's what's last question? What's what's what's your act one that you're working on? Now. Can you say are is there a next movie already by being on in the works and about that right now all I can think about is was like Haitian, I was gonna say vacation is that usually happen? Traveling around to do for the publicity. Sure. International a little bit. And then I know I do. Yeah. I mean, there's always a few things, you know, in my pocket. Well, let's put it this way. Mike company must have the next one ready to row because otherwise all these people are sitting around my lips assailed. Okay. We can just assume it's already protected if you walked around a bit. I'm sure you'd see. We're actually catering that. No, no, we're after that. We might actually get a loss, maybe hours we need. No. Thanks again for being with us on the bankrupt brothers animation podcasts, and as Tom and I always say animate from. From the heart the heart.