12 Episode results for "Negro Improvement Association"

Marcus Garvey: Leader of a Revolutionary Global Movement

Black History in Two Minutes

03:54 min | 1 year ago

Marcus Garvey: Leader of a Revolutionary Global Movement

"Over a hundred years ago the black nationalist movement in America reached an unprecedented level of popularity because of the efforts of the charismatic leader of the universal negro Improvement Association Marcus Garvey born in Jamaica Garvey grew up in poverty. He came to understand race relations through the lens of birth colonialism throughout the Caribbean and Latin America as his thinking matured. He began to formulate a revolutionary social movement in nineteen fourteen years. He founded the universal negro Improvement Association dedicated to uniting all the black people throughout the world. Two years later. He immigrated to the United States or his powerful message quickly gained traction you walk you like we weren't able to go to work for one coming up this second building and they should all his own on the great continent of Africa for the purpose of generating our industrial commercial educational Council and for the vehicle collision be arrives in an error where blacks are still being lynched regularly in the South around the same time that movies like Birth of a Nation are showing extra ordinarily Rage depictions of African Americans as monsters. You have this really charismatic and dynamic individual and he's talking about look our place is never going to be here in the United States were going to be in Europe. It's going to be in Africa. We need to reclaim Africa. So Garvey is going to be preaching a philosophy of black pride. He's going to come up with a scheme to repatriate to Africa and he provides a huge sense of hope for millions of African-Americans a centerpiece of garvey's program was the creation of the Black Star Line a steamship line launched a transport. African Americans who wish to emigrate to Africa the Black Star Line is this idea that Garvey can buy ships through the support of local African American people sending in money so you can have a share in the Black Star Line and these ships were going to take thousands of people back to Africa to the Colony that Garvey was going to establish but his advocacy for black Americans to move back to Africa drew the attention of the United States government and especially J Edgar Hoover Federal Bureau of Investigation, which monitored garvey's movement seeking grounds for his arrest and deportation Garvey was growing too powerful J. Edgar Hoover is going to hire their first negro agents to subvert Marcus Garvey and eventually they're going to say that he's been committing mail fraud with the Black Star Line scheme. He's eventually tried arrested placed in jail 19-25. He's deported in nineteen twenty-seven and he's never go out to return to the United States. He dies in London in 1943. Garvey's Legacy as the father of the modern back to Africa movement cannot be underestimated. He created the largest popular political movement in the history of Black America and would be an inspiration both to the anti-colonial movement and black nationalist leaders throughout the remainder of the century.

Jamaica Garvey Africa United States universal negro Improvement As Black America negro Improvement Association America J. Edgar Hoover Caribbean Latin America Europe Bureau of Investigation commercial educational Council fraud London nineteen fourteen years hundred years Two years
Garvey's Great Gathering (1920)

This Day In Esoteric Political History

18:16 min | 2 months ago

Garvey's Great Gathering (1920)

"This day in esoteric political history is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name your price tool yet. It works just the way it sounds. You tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and no show you coverage options that fit your budget. It's easy to start a quote and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive get your quote today at progressive dot com and see why four out of five new auto customers recommend progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. So let me tell you what happened. When i got my box of seafood from blue circle foods i immediately gave the frozen salmon in their my official patented. How fresh is this fish treatment. Which is really just to cook it in an incredibly simple way oven. Four seventy five a little olive oil salt pepper. Lemon maybe some herbs and guess what this passed with flying colors incredibly fresh incredibly delicious symond delivered right to my door and that is basically what blue circle foods is all about their salmon. Fillets shrimp frozen bites for kids smoked salmon. You choose the schedule the portions. You will become a seafood lover. Use the code this day. Ten at blue circle foods dot com for ten dollars off your first box. If you give it a shot email me a send you that salmon recipe once again. That's this day. Ten at blue circle foods dot com. Hello and welcome to this day in esoteric. Political history from radio topa. My name is jody african this day. August third nineteen twenty. The universal negro improvement association is having its first international convention. You parades are being held in harlem with the fires and contingents of delegates from canada. The caribbean central. America west africa and of course officers and leaders of the un organization based here in the united states. This was in large part. The work of marcus garvey. Who is someone. We haven't really discussed on this show There are other notable facts about marcus. Garvey before purposes that suffices. This is the first time we're talking about marcus. Garvey on the show Add that to his wikipedia entry on this day political until like two hundred and fifty episodes in but this is our chance to talk about garvey back to africa. The and lots more so here to do that as always are nicole. Hammer of columbia and kelly carter jackson of wellesley. Hello there hello jody. Hey there so kelly. let's start. I mean there's so much to say about the But let's start with just this convention and these parades in harlem like take us there. What are we sort of need to know about the texture of this moment in early august. Nineteen twenty this is probably one of the biggest gatherings of black people of the african diaspora That has ever met up in new york city. You have over twenty. Two countries represented you have tens of thousands of people trying to get inside madison square garden. Which is the largest gathering place at all of these people could meet up in one location. It takes about five hours just to get inside madison square garden. But they're so much is happening. I mean this is garvey's moment of fame in which he has orchestrated all of these black people to together in solidarity to draft up basically a black constitution or a declaration of human rights for black people. People were talking about this for decades. I mean garvey was a huge on the scene. I think he's probably in my book. One of the most under estimated or underrated black figures. But he's right up there with booker t. washington in wkbd boys and he's going toe to toe in terms of his ideology and the ideology is really important. And it's why they're all of these people here from all over the world and they're marching under banners that say things like we wanna black civilization in africa must be free is a pan-africanism That he is infusing into what in the united states had not been exclusively but had been a us focused movement And so he is bringing something new in the wake. Interestingly of world war one a kind of unity among as kelly was saying diaspora people but with the people in africa as well. So during parades that u. n. a. officers are sort of in full regalia. There's the black star line abandoned choir. We'll get into what the black star line was As you mentioned there's these contingents there's black cross nurses. They've really built up a full sort of ecosystem around the central idea. So okay. that's the specific texture of this moment. Now i wonder if maybe we should just go way back and situa- garvey in like not just the context of his time. But you know. I'm reminded kelly like we've talked a little bit about back to africa. The show can't some of those have been from white abolitionists in the fifties and sixties. And now we have garvey. You know few decades later so like where does he fit into this larger. Maybe decades and decades long flow of ideas of black americans going back to africa. So if you think. The nineteenth century in the abolitionist movement as a wave of maybe like a spiritual back to africa movement or colonialistic back to africa movement That's guiding these missionaries to go back to the country to colonize evangelize in the twentieth century. It's much different. It's more of a cultural back to africa movement so and a capitalistic. One is well in which there is not only pride about being of african descent but there is a strong desire to make these connections between the caribbean and the united states in central america and have shipping networks and economic networks. Allow black people to build wealth and control their own economic power and political power So that's the real impulse for the movement and just to sort of state the obvious when we talked about like the. Acs the american colonization society. They didn't really have like economic empowerment. Necessarily no no like well you know. Black people came from africa. We should send them back to africa. Maybe that conveniently makes it less of a problem here at home. Yeah and i think that Kelly is winning too. Is that in this case. They are a set of push and pull factors right. There's this idea of black autonomy That economic independence black pride. But there's also in nineteen twenty. This sense that the united states is not going to turn into this liber tori space anytime soon where you had all of these black americans who had moved north during the war for new economic opportunities that we're now continuing after the war who had fought in the war only to come home and find themselves in in even stricter jim crow regimes that were specifically targeting Us soldiers who were black And this idea that there had to be a space. Not only were. There could be economic independence. Autonomy pride all of those things but freedom from white racism in the united states and elsewhere right across the colonials. Yeah yeah yeah. And garvey is really speaking to this. Oh with the level of militancy and cultural pride. That's just not been seen before booker. T. washington is pushing somewhat similar sentiments in terms of economic in racial uplift. But it does not at all have the kind of have to that. Garvey has behind it or or the solidarity of the diaspora so garvey is is basically saying for and he does say this. And i'm probably going to bought the exact quote but he says for every black person that they lynch in the united states we will lynch a black person in africa and that is like whoa and when when he says that you know. The audience erupts with applause. This is also what tips off the fbi and hoover and this becomes a long slippery slope into sort of the demise of garvey. But the fact that he was willing to say pain. I foreign i. We're serious about this tip. A lot of people particularly in the federal government off about who he was. We did an episode a while. Back about william garrison right and he. When he burned a copy of the constitution. i was thinking the eighteen fifties But you know what we're discussing here reminds me of that in that it does feel like to your point nikki. You know it's just. At what point does the promise of this country. Start to ring hollow and then we see different approaches Explode in the happens throughout generations of black activists and so kelly like can we paint that context of who the other black activists were in the nineteen twenties where garvey fit in the different strains of radicalism and so forth. so you have a There's a lot of different organizations. Some of them are very short. Lived i think of the niagara movement that sort of the predecessor to the n. Double acp that had a much more radical stance as well but is rather short lived and think of course of the n. Double acp which is still around to this day which takes a much more legal and some might say conservative approach. But then you get you know things that have a more religious bent like the nation of islam and things of that nature but really the un. I i would say is the first black organization to have this economic impulse really at the center of it and a radical militant sort of backing behind that as well that sort of colors The way that they operate but everything about the usaa is about building new also so they have membership and they have you know a bonds that you can buy and they have a newspaper and they start the black star shipping line and the things that they're doing are just so way ahead of what any organization i think is thinking about in terms of movement building from economic or capitalistic sense. I'm curious to kelly. You know it's it's nineteen twenty and and domestic us history. That's often talked about in terms of the negro and the harlem renaissance. Where does the and pan-africanism fit into. All of that. All fits in perfectly. If it's perfectly. I mean if you think about the fact that like malcolm x's parents were garvey rights. You know. this is the moment in which a lot of black people didn't really know how to reconcile a boy ideology because in for some black people do. Voice is is sort of bourgeois is the elites and not everybody's college educated but marcus. Garvey comes for the everyday working black man and woman and really empowers them and so this is a nineteen twenties like working class movement political movement in economic movement. That people who may not have means can really buy into Literally and figuratively in ways. That i think fits so perfectly in with like the new negro and the harlem minnesotans and like the birth of a black nation and we should just say for people who are listening who might not know like boys was really pushing this idea of the talented tenth that where chain was going to happen was at the elite levels and in the upper classes of black americans and so this is a very yeah this alternate approach versus the top down approach and i think people tend to think of two boys and washington booker. T. washington as a sort of Historical beef darby darby and two boys certainly had one. And i think in this moment right. Garvey of course took took this opportunity of this convention that we're discussing to continue that weeks before the convention. He actually invites the boys to come and nominate himself for the role of quote be accredited spokesman of the american negro people. And i think it's safe to say that garvey thought being a quote unquote accredited spokesperson about as deep of an insult as it. Sounds like trolling to me. I mean they did not get along and that this was the probably one of the most public sort of beefs in the black community. People think again booker. T. and boys. But i i always think garvey and boys because some of the exchanges and the insults was like. Oh gosh this is harsh. We should also say well while he was doling out titles that garvey chooses himself as the provisional president of africa. Yeah i mean no no shortage of ego. That's a lot there. I mean everyone in this moment is doing is doing the most the most you know to this to that point as we start to wrap up i mean garvey is i mean look every political actors juggling and fighting on a number of different fronts but i wonder if you can just point. Just talk a little bit about the various fronts that garbage juggling here. There is the debate within the black community. There's the larger pan african debate and then obviously. There is the debate with both white america and white sort of political infrastructure How does how does garvey navigate that and do you see him as particularly successful in any of those lanes Yes and no i mean. I think he's incredibly successful among the black community among black working class people that want a champion that that looks like them. I think he's a huge champion when it comes to pan-africanism and how we connect you know louisiana to cuba to brazil to ghana. I think that's incredible. But i think he loses a lot of his white audience with his militancy with his rhetoric with his You know Charismatic leadership that's a little terrifying to them. He definitely sets off the federal government in ways that i don't think he himself could have predicted. And even though he's got these great ideas and he's a visionary he does not have execution and he trusted a lot of people that he shouldn't have one of the first black people to be hired by the f. b. I was hired to basically infiltrate the you. And i a and undermine marcus garvey. We'll marcus. Garvey has his shipping organization. The black star line which is interesting because the white star line was the titanic shipping. Mind and so. They said we're going to have the black star line if you kind of think of it. Well it's a little bit of a bad omen that identifies things but to the end of the wikipedia. Pitch for that one that that would have a bad time for me but but everyone on the shipping line is taking kickbacks and you know there's corruption and so by the end of his life i mean there's so much lost potential He is basically deported. He sent back to jamaica. He gets charged with mail fraud and he moves to london during the letter days of his life and pretty much falls into a depression. And it's it's really sad considering that you know. He sitting on his couch reading the paper and read his own obituary Just a few months before he dies and so he has really fallen from grace when you think about the fact that people have written that does written him off but written him up as dead before he's even died so any final thoughts on where we see his ideas today. I'm curious your take on both garvey specifically but these larger notions of pan-africanism and we see those percolating in twenty twenty one. I think we do. I think you know if anybody attended june teen parading. You see the red and black and green flag That was the garvey flag the flag. That's black that stood for black people read that stood for the blood and greene that stood for for africa in the The greenness of africa and the lushness of africa I think you see it in symbolic ways in some ways. I think there's the political aspect of trying to buy black or purchase from black companies black on companies to support black capitalism. There's certainly echoes of it. But do i think that there's a garvey today I don't know about that all right. Well it feels like a good note to end on so nicole hammer thanks. He was always thank you. Jody and kelly carter jackson. Thanks to you my pleasure. This day in esoteric political history is a proud member of radio topi from p. r. x. network of independent listener supported. Artists owned podcasts. Are researcher and producer. Is jacob bowman. Our producer is brittany brown. You can get in touch with us with any questions or comments or ideas for the show. Email us this day pod at gmail dot com or you can find a form at this day. Pod dot com. My name is jody average again. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you soon up to four different radio x.

garvey africa Garvey us kelly marcus universal negro improvement as kelly carter jackson T. washington jody madison square garden harlem marcus garvey american colonization society caribbean william garrison un wellesley west africa
Champagne Sharks Book Club: Settlers Pt. 10

Problematic Premium Feed

3:20:17 hr | 9 months ago

Champagne Sharks Book Club: Settlers Pt. 10

"Hey everyone champagne sharks book club. You took a week off. Thanksgiving a had too much turkey in me and was too tired and stuff. So it's on me but we are back. Were back in effect and settlers chapter nine The second half of chapter nine. We didn't finish the second half of chapter nine last time. It's a lot of stopping chapter nine. One the big chapter so we decided to break it up and from this point forward. The chapters are gonna be shorter. So that part's good so picking up from nine point three. Let's get started and also afterward. Then i'll be mine again after we're done but please remember to just say your name before you start speaking. So people have a voice to a name to associate with the voice and without further due to start with. Oh sorry nine. Point four is where we left off for start with settlers nine point four section. Four neo-colonialism leadership. The empire has had a long and successful history of play neo-colonialism to hold down the oppressed in latin america and new africa during the mid. Eighteen hundreds ds empire utilized neo-colonialism prior even to the advent of world imperialism but in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties us imperialism's neocolonial instruments. Lost control over the african masses. In order to establish pro imperial leadership over african politics us imperialism had to forge near colonial instruments. These nail instruments not only traditional but also radical and even socialistic out form and had the special task of controlling the modern forces of african trade unionism and african socialism. That had arisen so widely. We should remember that. The essence of neo-colonialism is an outward form of national self-determination and popular democracy concealing submissive relationship with imperialism on the part of the bourgeois forces as emiko brawl pointed out almost twenty years ago concerning neo-colonialism. The objective of the imperialist countries was to prevent the enlargement of the socialist camp to liberate the reactionary forces in our countries which are being stifled by colonialism and to enable these forces to ally themselves with the international bourgeoisie. The fundamental idea was to create a bourgeoisie way. One did not exist in order specifically to strengthen the imperialist and decapolis camp the. Us empire had redone exactly that in the eighteen. Seventies the near corneal stage. You don't have black. Reconstruction had qualitatively changed in lodged a new african petty bourgeoisie. This class even in defeat by the american plants. A capitalist. What's her degree held up and patronized by us imperialism and they retained like a religion loyalty and dependence upon the federal government. Washington dc. was there mecca or rome. Indeed the federal government was for many years. The prime employer of the african paid bourgeoisie. Many african politicians of the nineteenth century were consoled by federal patronage for the las glories of reconstruction. Us senator blanche. Bruce from mississippi was lost african in the senate when his term ended in eighteen eighty one mississippi politics were back on the plaza control and he was replaced for his loyal example. The what had him the position in washington of the us register of the treasury for the next thirty two years that post be reserved so low african leaders. Even frederick douglass was not immune to the ideological bent of his class. He was appointed. Us marshal for the district of columbia and later in his life was us concerts. Haiti small wonder that the full radical abolitionists spent years preaching. How africans should always remain loyal to the republican party northern capital and the federal government by eighteen ninety two the federal offices in washington employed. Some one thousand five hundred africans while most of these jobs whereas cleaning women and the lowliest of clerks a trickle of professional and official positions were reserved for him picked african petty bourgeois leaders washington. Dc was then the capital exile africans the sensor of negro society some eight bureaucratic positions with status eventually were reserved for them. Dc municipal judge register of the treasury. Deputy register assistant district attorney for dc auditor of the navy department. Chief surgeon at dc friedman's hospital collector of customs at georgetown and us assistant attorney general in nineteen thirteen a journalists lightly label lightheartedly label. These eight the black cabinet but what began. Beginning jess was taken up by the petty bourgeoisie. Africans in seriousness. The custom began of regarding the black cabinet. As representatives to the us government of the whole african population within the us so petty bourgeois african national leadership had been created which was in fact both employed and solely picked by the imperialist government at this time the most prominent african in these circles standing in reality even above the black cabinet was booker. T. washington of stieg institute. Washington was viewed by the imperial as chief african adviser and serve them as leading propagandists and apologised for west premacy and colonialism. In return any african who sought position of funds from the perlis had to be approved by him during the theodore. Roosevelt and taft administrations. Even the black cabinet. Appointments were cleared. I with him. Washington had great fame and acting for the empire some influence over african education newspapers community institutions. And so on. But of course neither he. Nor the other imperialist selected african leaders represented the will of the masses at the end of world war one an anti colonial movement of incredible vigorous fourth similarly almost overnight that rejected both the us empire and the bourgeois leadership that that it had installed for africans. This was a historic movement. Touched off and led by the jamaican marcus. Garvey even enemies conceded that the african masses were expressing their deep desires through this rebellious movement of african nationalism. The golfie movement at his peak in the early nineteen twenties was the greatest outbreak of african political activity since the civil war. It said that africans could find that liberation in building a new modern african nation of their own back on the soil of the african continent. The proposed nation would eventually unite and protect africans everywhere in the us empire and the west indies as well as on african continent itself. This new nation would expand to liberate all africa from colonialism and united into one continental power their africans shape their own destiny in great industries. Universities agricultural cooperatives and cultural institutions of their own as a beginning toward the day garvey's organized national institutions here in all spheres of life however modest these medical religious military economic and other organizations with designed to help african self reliance and national independence. If garvey ism suffered from practical shortcomings nevertheless it's imposing sweep vision expressed burning national aspirations of the suppress and not only within the us but worldwide gavi assumes great contribution consisted of the fact that it raised high for all to see a vision of african life that was completely self reliant build around their own national economy and culture that waited on no european to accept them or emancipate them that was appended solely on african energies and will end this gov ism was expressing the strongest strongest desires of the african massey's. It is no accident that gov is and it successor. The nation of islam were the two largest have africa activity in oganization building within the contents of empire of century. Even such a self admitted skeptic as richard wright was profoundly moved by gavi is in his youth the one group permit during those exploring days. Who's last enthralled me was the gavi it's an organization of black men and women who belong only seeking to return to africa. This was a passionate rejection of america for they sense would that directness of which only the simpler capable had no chance to live a full human life in america. The lives were not cluttered with ideas. Which could only half believe they could not create illusions which made them think they were living when they were not the daily labs with to nick the hardest permit of camouflage i understood their emotions for partly shared them. The governor said embraced totally racialistic outlook. Which endowed them with the dignity that had never seen before negros on the walls of the dingy flats with maps of africa in india and japan. Pictures of japanese generals and admirals portrait. Of marcus garvey in gaudy regalia defenses of colored men and women from all parts of the world. I gave no credence to the ideology of garvey ism. It was rather the emotional dynamics said hair instead of oaks admirations. Those guys i knew could never understand why i like them but would never follow them and i paid them too much. Tell them that they could never achieve their goal. Gavi spoke fervently of building their own country of something living within the boundaries of a culture of the making but i sense the passionate hunger of their lives that i caught a glimpse of potential strength of the american negro the gavi movements ambitious economic ventures in particular the ill-fated black starship became centers of controversy. There is no doubt however that at the time they'll often considered as very difficult but necessary steps for african progress even wb boys of the nwa c. p. who is one of garvey's favorite targets for his scorn as a white man's nigger initially spoke out in favor of garvey's program but not his personal leadership. The main lines of garvey plan a perfectly feasible. What he's trying to say. And do this. American negroes can buy accumulating administering their own capital organiz industry joined by senator the south atlantic by commercial enterprise and in this way ultimately redeem africa as a fit and free home for black men. This is true it is feasible. The plan is not original with gov but he had popularized it made it living vocal ideal and swept thousands with him with intense belief in the possible accomplishment of the ideal to the extent that garvey was naive about capitalism. which would obviously was. This was a stage of development widely shared by critics as well governor. Him's weakness was that it saw. In capitalism the form of social organization of the colonizer the instruments that africans could use to free themselves so that the essence of nation building was expressing forms precisely paralleling those of european society businesses churches black cross etc cetera. Guidance garvey's predilection for western. Tyler's nobility the duke of nigeria and full dress european quote uniforms with but a symptom of this while this made the concept of independent african. Nationhood instantly understandable. It was also contradiction in a blind alley. Millions of africans responded to the colo gavi the united negro improvement association the a reddish newspaper the negro world but stuck in his african business ventures came out to his meetings rallies in one thousand nine hundred twenty. Some fifty thousand africans marched in a mass. You and i are rally in harlem. Garvey claimed four point five million members of the way. His critics charged that an examination of the un is public financial reports. Reveal that the gavi movement only had ninety thousand members of whom only twenty thousand paid up at the time and dues. The i was so overwhelming that his critics could try to bid by saying that it had only ninety thousand members. Do you is international. Effect was very profound. Could mckay reminds us that in the interior of west africa. New legends arose of an african who had been lost in america but would return to save his people. Other nigerian coast. Africans would like great bonfires sleeping on. The beach is waiting to guide in ships of most garvey coming crew of ghana and hokey minh of vietnam. Both said that gov had been an important inspiration for them. Clements could eilly. Who's two hundred and fifty thousand member industrial and commercial workers union. I see you was the first african working class political organization in his so that he had been much influenced by the un. I am british kenya. The separatist kikuyu christians boy ministers from the us to train an ordained their own first ministers and it was from these congregations that much of the kenya land and freedom army called mao by the british would come generation later the coffee movement. In crewman's words. Raise the ben of african liberation on three continents in haiti. Us marines violently. Put down the a in costa rica cuba. The united fruit company used police politics. Press it george padmore. A bitter opponent of gavi recounts that in certain places. The punishment for being seen with a negro world was five years at hard labor. And in fresh home it was life imprisonment. It was suppressants. Such places as trinidad british guiana barbados etc. Into west indies and all french portuguese geese belgian and some of the british colonies of africa in the continental us the garvey movement was met with varying degrees of repression malcolm x's farther we should recall was assassinated by the kkk because he was an organizer for the u. n. i a. but overall. Us imperialism moved against this by surprising surge with some care. After several of garvey's former lieutenants were suborned by the us government. The imperious had gavi arrested for alleged mail fraud. This tactic of posing gavi as a common criminal was conceived by none other than j. edgar hoover who at the time was a rising. Fbi official and october eleventh. Nine hundred nineteen memorandum. Hoover wrote noted that gavi was agitating the negro movement unfortunately however he has not as yet violated any federal law it occurs to me however from the attach clipping that there might be some proceeding against him for fraud in connection with his black star. Line eventually gavi was convicted imprisoned in atlanta federal prison and later deported in nineteen twenty seven. The door however had been opened. What was most apparent. Was that the old conservative imperalist sponsored. African leadership had been shoved aside and left behind by this outbreak. The could no longer even pretend to lead or control the african people it is significant that even the liberal civil rights integrationist had been overshadowed by the new militant nationalism. This was a time of rich ideological struggle and transformation in the african nation that however is not the precise focus of our investigation. What we're looking at is the neocolonial relationship between the forming petty bourgeois civil rights leadership and us imperialism. We analyzing how a time of mass unrest and the beginnings of rebellion among africans us imperialism help promote neo-colonial leadership that an outward form of integrationists protest or a protest oriented radical and even socialists. The political attack against garvey movement within the african nation was most aggressively spearheaded by young african socialist and labor organiser. Ace a phillip randolph. Only use his first initial a since those years of the early nineteen. Twenty s randolph. Even then one of the leading african radical intellectuals will grow in stature and influence a phillip randolph became the organizer and then the president of the brotherhood of sleeping car porters he would become for decades the most important african union leader eventually rising to be the only african member of the afl cio executive council as leader of the historic nineteen forty one march on washington movement his credited with forcing the federal government to desegregate industry to most today randolph. His at best dim name somehow associated with dusky events in the past in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. He had an eightieth birthday dinner at the wall of story. Hotel in new york we. He was personally congratulated. Not only by credit king the african notables but by governor nelson rockefeller and afl cio president. George meany it's hard for activists today to view him as anything but another of the faces uncle toms. This greatly undermines underestimates his historic role to grasp how useful he was to the. Us empire we have to see that the young a phillip randolph was a radical star in the african community. His an angry provocative troublemaker with an image as both as a james foreman cesar chavez randolph published the first socialist african journal aimed at workers promoting african unionism. The messenger carried the motto. The only radical magazine in america had forty five thousand readers. He was arrested and briefly held by federal authorities for speaking out against world war. One the new york state legislature investigative committee called him. The most dangerous negro in america randolph did his work inside the african struggle as radical mass leader. Not as a conservative talking conciliator sitting on a fancy office somewhere his long tenure as alone recognize african leader on a national level in the afl cio was so striking that it led the reverend martin luther king genius querying an article wi- concerning the absence of nego trade union leadership eighty five pacific negroes. A working people some two million in trade unions but in fifty years we have only produced one national leader. A philip randolph. This is a question whose answer will become apparent to us. The beginning of ramdas political career. This ambitious young until was taken in and helps by the u. n. i a. gavi pointing him as head of the u. n. i. delegations the league of nations conference at the end of were will one randolph was denied a us passport and was able to go when randolph and his close associate channel owing needed assistance. For the messenger the un. I provided them with offices in the holland building that owned the un attempted to be broadly encouraging to african ventures even those of a socialist nature so as they were african running orientated randolph's integrationism and ambition that him to break with the un. I a it was not. We should emphasize only a political struggle within african ranks alone. The us oppressive nation was also involved in the dispute while rand off in his fellow. Integrationist totally impressed with the might of the. Us empire never believed that national liberation can succeed. They fear that the growing mass agitation would antagonize settlers to these neo-colonialists settlers goodwill and patronage was more important than almost anything further randolph's immediate career would be labor leader was threatened by garvey. 'isms hold on the african masses rent off and his associates where fanatically determined to destroy garvey. And the ira at any cost. They pursued this end by using any every means in their magazine. The messenger gavi was snare referred to as a monumental monkey and supreme negro jamaican jackass. Randolph's near racist rhetoric reflected his assertion that garvey was an alien west indian and not a true american negro national speaking toes. The end of lacey pe- for garvey must go campaign failed in telling move randolph. The supposed socialist and his allies turned to the us empire for help. They openly encouraged repression of the un. I in early january nineteen twenty-three this grouping became alarmed when the chief government witness against gavi and his coming mail fraud. Trial was killed this trader. Ervin j w east of new orleans had been formerly a leader in the way but had been ousted for embezzlement the dying eastern had allegedly identified his assailants as to workers along showman and a painter. Who were you an aa security qadri. The anti gov grouping was seized with fair for themselves will be corrected for their treasonous. Collaboration with the state on january fifteenth nineteen twenty-three constituted themselves as a committee of eight. They wrote to. Us attorney general daugherty begging him to strike down to african nationalists without any delay. This horse this historic. Linda is informative. Dare sir as the chief law enforcement officer of the nation. We wish to call your attention. Heretofore unconsidered menace to harmonious race relations. There are in our midst certain negro criminals and potential murderers both foreign and american born who moved and actuated by intense hatred of the white race. These undesirables continually procreate proclaimed that all white people enemies to the negro. They have become so fanatical that the threatened and attempted to death of their opponents. The movement known as the universal negro improvement association has done much to stimulate the violent temper of this dangerous movement as president and moving. Spirit is one marcus. Garvey an unscrupulous demagogue who has ceaselessly assiduously sought to spread among negroes distrust and hatred of all white people during a is chiefly composed of the most primitive and ignorant element of west indian and american negroes for the above reasons. We advocate the attorney. General uses full influence completely to disband extirpate this vicious movement and that he vigorously and speedily pushed the government's case against marcus. Garvey for using the mails to defraud is future. Meetings should be carefully watch by officers that law and fractures promptly and severely punished the eight who sadly slavish appeal randolph. This honestly professional. Nothing about it were chandler. Owen co editor of the messenger and randolph's closest political associate william pickens feel secretary of the end of lacey pe- robert bagnall and p. director of branches robert abbott publisher of the chicago defender. Julia coleman hair vim cosmetics company. John nail real estate broker. George w harris new york city councilman editor of the newspaper. Neil news harry pace pace phonograph company. It is useful to examine this move in practice. It turned out that randolph grouping of moderate socialists supposedly dedicated to overthrowing capitalism were blocked with a liberal pro capitalist petty bourgeoisie elements of the nwa c. p. and with the marginal african business interests who fed off the degradation of colonial oppression. And that in practice all these elements looks upon the us empire as they ultimate protector against their own people while it was obviously true. That randolph was an agent of imperialism. It wasn't true that he was a simple tool. Just following orders such as a police informer might be to understand neo-colonialism. We have to see that. Randolph represented a certain class viewpoint the viewpoint of immune as martin in puerto rico or the young mike myself In the japanese american national minority this viewpoint of the section of the petty bourgeoisie that sees advancement and progress not from leaving the struggle but from co it and using it as a bargaining tool winning concessions from the empire in return for law. Submission is only a seeming paradox that these activists petty bourgeois encourage a needed both their credit struggles and violent repression. They're the leaders that. Us imperialism promotes to ensure that even third world protests an organization is ultimately loyal to it. A philip randolph's career makes us recall cabral's warning that imperialism is quite prepared to change both men and its tactics. In order to perpetuate itself. It will kill its own pockets when they no longer serve its purposes if need be it will even create a kind of socialism which may soon stop calling neil socialism. Randolph became a leading advocate of all african unionism and political organizations. He publicly argued against integrated civil rights organizations such as the end of lacey pe- on the grounds that only africans should decide how the struggle was conducted. His goal was only to weld african together as a block so that he and his fellow pro imperial leaders could demand a price from the us empire in return for african submission. Randolph's integration mystic. Socialism was used to fill a void to ideologically portray a far off glittering social vision to african workers that didn't relate to national liberation or breaking away from the us empire runoff had been indoctrinated in euro american social democracy and settle unionism. But is he shared the your american reformist view on how social bedminster africans should take place. Randolph argued that africans could be protected by unionism and civil rights if they carefully convinced settlers of the nonviolent submissiveness and their desire to be ruled by euro americans while the messenger abused both communism and nationalism imprint in the most vulgar and crude ways toward f l president samuel dumpers who was a segregationist an open advocate of white supremacy a public spokesman of the doctrine of the racial inferior ferrari of africans and off the less than humble and praising in one thousand nine hundred and four when bumpers diet. The messenger excused him as diplomatically. Silent friend randolph feared and hated the garvey movement not because of its false but because of its virtues undeclared by randolph's relationship to dumper success say f. l. president william green. Morehouse college professor braille fred. Brazil admitted in his law degree in nineteen forty. Six book on. The put is union randolph. The socialist had by this time convinced. Green that pullman. Porters were anxious to demonstrate that negro would help to further the program of american workers through conventional channels head condemned the communists and the tech takes the messenger and this must have reaffirmed greens convictions hair. Where the men and the organization that could serve as an instrument for rallying negro workers under the hegemony of the federation baird resting. Randolph's leading disciple has said of him. He realized that separatism whether espoused by marcus garvey or latter day nationalists is grounded in fancy and myth despite its emotional appeal to an oppressed people but people here realize could never advance without the good feelings and assistance of many whites and now we can see the answer to the question that dr king raised. There's only one eight phillip randolph because us imperialism only wanted one randolph with push forward and made a big leader by his ear. American mentors when we look at his magazine. The messenger during the years when it was fighting. Gavi ism we see an issue to issue lodge garrity advertisement paid for by the euro american radicals who ran the international ladies garment. Workers union the amalgamated clothing workers union social democratic settling labor was indirectly subsidising randolph to attack nationalism from within the african nation to be the agent. And do what they from. The outside could not his whole career was similarly aided and arranged imperialism needed. Its own militant. Sounding african leaders a philip randolph's actual record as president of the brotherhood of sleeping car. Porters is instructive. He and chandler owen were approached by a committee of porters who are looking for an african intellectual. Who could help them organize a union. The port is previous attempts. Had been clumsy. Several efforts had been smashed by the company in a series of firings randolph cup. The opportunity and in nineteen twenty five. The union was formed. The messenger became the official journal of the brotherhood in terms of leading labor struggles. Randolph was a peculiar success. After years of difficult building the new seven thousand member union had called for coast to coast pullman strike in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight a mood of tents. Anticipation was prevalent among the porter's knowing that the set train crews wouldn't honor. This strike would try to roll the trains anyway. Large groups of african workers began arming themselves preparing to take over the rail yards in oakland and on the east coast randolph. When upset if he had never really intended to lead strike he had not prepared for one and had told union associates. that was all a bluff. He felt certain that the federal mediation board is step in arrange a negotiated settlement just as did for the euro. American railroad brotherhoods as a cushion randolph. Had had a white house meeting with president coolidge and told him of secret hopes for a government sponsored settlement but as a strike deadline near the federal government refused to intervene the imperious were unwilling to publicly admit that an african union could force a national emergency as a desperate hope. Randolph then went begging to air force. President william green and a last minute meeting. He employed green for nfl support of the porter. Strike getting the setlow railroads brotherhoods to close down. The trains. green told him that the public isn't ready to accept the strike by negroes. He told randolph to give up. Call off the strike randolph. Sadly obeyed on the eve of the first strike of african row workers were now to go back to work to offer no resistance to the company's this illusion than confused. The african port is left the union by thousands two thirds of the unions. Seven thousand members quit in the next few months ramdas. Only plan was for them to wait and wait until you're american. Decided to finally approve of them. Many porters were fired by the triumphant company knowing that runoff had left them defenseless. Do slow to a trickle. And even the messenger stopped appearing. A phillip randolph had acceptance from the afl leadership. But the workers would fall him. Pay the bill and he had succeeded in defusing a potentially explosive struggle of african workers. Run us vindication came with the new deal with the entry into state power of the liberal democratic party politicians who understood him and why he was so useful in nineteen thirty seven. The national liberal relations board ordered the pullman company to recognize brotherhood and give into its main demands during the same period. We should know african nationalists in the north who are trying to form. Unions of an independent from your american unionism was subjected to both legal and police disruption the imperious auto settlement. Portas wages went up by thirty percent while working hours cut randolph with promoted as very successful leader of an all african union. Who had gotten his members sizeable rewards in wages and working conditions his greatest hour of fame. They still ahead. The nineteen forty one march on washington movement. When for the one month round was most important african in the us this was the event that ensured him a place as a national leader africans for the us empire instead of booker. T. washington an avowed socialist. Labor leader was now meeting in advising the white house so a new militant nationalism and the new protests oriented integrationism engaged in ideological struggle for leadership of the african massey's it was not however assymetrical struggle or an equal one struggle air. The is the insurgent. Nationalism had the fog. Greatest share of public support particularly from the laboring masses is also true. The african revolutionaries of that time had not yet developed successful strategies for liberation. The civil rights integrationist however slim their own forces had the powerful resources of the oppression nation backing their play the full range of forces from the us department of justice and the police to the foundations the social democrats and set the trade unions all work together in various ways to promote the hegemony of modernized neocolonial leadership allied to the us empire. Six all right all right I don't know why but this was really flew by. This was not saying that any of the chapters are necessarily bad but this one to me felt a lot more engaging than the other ones. I guess because i felt very much a like a story you know and rather than just station facts and i think also because this is one that wins. I felt very kind of relevant to a lot of the stuff that we talk about a lot about people being seeming kind of radical to a degree but they're radical in a way that White handlers don't mind in that they can sometimes and the being tools against more radical people on behalf of their white handlers when somebody more radical comes along at found that very interesting in hours wondering for anyone else felt the same about this section if they found that it flew by faster than a lot of other sections or if they didn't find that funny Yeah i agree completely. I think the section is where it really starts to get catches interesting from a historical perspective like really direct parallels jeff and going on At least for my like lifetime like this stuff here seems to be like but everything is really built off of and still happening. Playbook was so recognizable that was kind of depressing sicom winfield and when they talk about the critique of marcus garvey when they were you. Using the fact that he was jamaican as opposed to american. That kind of rings. True with the whole. You know aid. Austin non eight us things going on now and how they divide black unit in self-determination up in order to concrete. And the people just you know opted in thinking that the general political movement was more socialists and benevolent when really it was undermining the entire time. It really it's like you could see history away repeating itself in terms of the rhetoric. Cd's days your one thing. That i was thinking of what i listen to. This is i would have liked to have. Sometimes we have people in these Book clubs who are avid followers of the eighty eighty. Wests and i thought it'd be interesting to have Someone like that this time. You know to get their take on it. Because yeah there was a lot of parallels as far as that went to and and i'd be interested in hearing what they found similar what they found Different but yeah. I agree i agree with that as well that they were Dr youtube i can play that role. Cool cool yeah like i. I don't know like There's i definitely i. I really like The contrast you know. Setting up garvey on one side and then randolph. On the other and i have all these mean things to say about iran. This like as i was taking notes. I was like Like you hold that for a second. Don't forget what you're about to say. I just want the game. I want to ask you About something you just said. I wanted to know the hate. You had for a philip randolph. Was it before this chapter or after because this was all new to me. I didn't noticed about if for the brand off so it was jarring switch to this historical figure. So sorry what's that This is my introduction to this historical figures at heard his name. But i didn't know who he was. Okay i just wanted that for context can continue what you're saying Like the idea that you can like appease white people like that was. I was like man. What a fucking bootlicker And then like he abandoned like the union strike Wh- who who. Oh yeah reminds me of like bernie sanders bernie. Sanders built up that Movement around himself during the primary and then he just abandoned it That was a payroll. I saw with like modern day. People as far as like the ideology of like the anti The anti Immigrant stands like the the xenophobic stance against Like garvey that Randolph was Champion he was doing that lake at the behest of white people. And i would say the difference between that stance and like the ato's stance would be that. The stance is It's actually got like popular support among black people. And your point. As far as i can tell that is int- against Like like social uplift or like material uplift for other black groups or anything like that like she she. I don't know like like i in her mind like there's like From from what. I can tell like there's like a model of like how things can be done and like they want to sort of be the sort of like guiding flaming show like. Okay this is how you get reparations. In the united states and then sort of export that You know model into the caribbean to other coil nations like haiti against france. Or something like that. I don't want to cut you off. I done yeah. I feel like i feel like. That's that's all okay okay I'm still looking at those sample questions. But i also feel like people are going to have a lot of passionate about section so rather than asking all those questions. I'm fine letting people talk. And if 'cause i feel like a lot of those are pre pre questions we have are going to be hit on anyway in what i'll do is As we wrap up. I'll ask whatever in those pre hasn't been naturally Hit upon so yeah. I mean everyone's talk or build on what was just said. Go ahead and also don't get to give your name before you speak. I think everyone's been doing that so far. I just wanted to touch on one thing that points. I would you name today. Since funky purchased the one thing i would essentially that announced was just that. I don't think if randolph was doing the vilification of garvey At the behest of anybody. It seemed like he was doing that for his own self interest because he saw garvey as a competitor And with him who's in his best interest to get him out of the way for one he he was afraid. After the informant was murdered. He was afraid that they're going to attack people but also he. He saw him as as a as a sort of a enemy ideological enemy who is also sucking up his base of support so to get him out of the way was in his best interest. I don't think he needed to be prodded to do that. I think it was just in his best interest and his his personal interest. And the reason he got to be where he was because he his alignment with was the same as what they're sort of like the white supremacist power wanted. I totally agree He was jockeying for position and he was chosen because he shared their values. You're right well. Say that. And i'm not black but i felt that the idea of like he talks about like the passion for like an independent nation. I feel like i see that. When i look at a lot of you know the auto stuff is people have a real passion for kind of like you know an independent blackness. That's separate from you. Know a you know other nations that also have their own independent independence that that black people in this country. Don't have right so. I think that i see that as kind of a i don't know i think garbage really cool for like a lotta different movements and i like how skylight a touches on that right like a from independence movements but also to asian independence movements as well. Did you give your name bar at gaven's from that was going to say this is winfield. Ultimately history is repeating itself in terms of the rhetoric just movements to because garvey back then he had the insight to realize the only way that people could actually have equity. And you see this things. Today like criminal justice employment housing virtually every aspect of life for a black person in the united states. All these hundreds of years later. You're still second class observing of or even less than second class to everybody else and the only way you could actually have a system that is to the needs of the people is a nation state of your own. Because that's ultimately the system that is to the needs of the people the primary interest group this group of course the settlers place so the primary interest group is white people and anybody who's not black essentially and He he saw that so he just cut to the chase and he was unashamedly nationalist. But then you have people like rand often. All of his followers wanna say froze people that came off to that which still integrationist and adopting the value system of the colonizers effectively except in second class citizenship. But but you know better conditions for a few and Yeah the the consistently sound their people out. And i see that really these movements today. That are not nationalist in the in the ultimate outcome as being nothing more than just selling the people out in gifting the people. Because how can you guarantee the human rights would be properly respected. How can you ensure they have equal access to education even if you're asking for a concession from the state for past crimes that's not going to get you those things it could just be like. I said it could be going into a casino and they just say. I'm sorry you money's no good here market served against you. Whatever they give you could be immediately taken away. The over you can house your. Your gains isn't a nation state and you have to protect your gains but And and and yeah just see these movements that just repeating history. Let's see how nationalist movement it's just not going to work and his one didn't even kill this guy you have to realize they knew if they made him a moderate pro added steam and momentum. They excised them you know. They cut him out throughout the country so Despite all of his flaws i think the one truth that he came across. Which was true. Is that you do need nationalism. But if anybody else is going for anything outside that but they have is stockholm syndrome. Or they're using the amounts of the house negro and the f. Feel negro on the field. Negro wants to be free and the house negro saying. Leave this white good man. Oh this good white man are you crazy you know it's just history penis self to docu to some extent Do you think that the it'll like as were saying. And you seem to disagree with this Do you think that the earth has that. Sort of nationalist. Slant no he's not arguing for anything more than more than anything they wanna be recognized as quote unquote american too but when the documents were drafted which federal people don't wanna change and they wanna maintain the spirit of they weren't americans so is is is foolishness is pushing to the highest degree. You don't everybody else. that's hair that has their rights. Recognised people really understand this. But they have nation states behind them. That could lobby and protect them They could repatriate those places by descent if need be the people have again. The most heat are the ones that are pretty much. Been running the whole game stateless in any group that and you see that when other groups come here and there's a lot of animosity where they came from even if it's everywhere the world's the world's white supremacy at this point even even the white world but they come here and even if they compete and get ahead animosity because they're quote unquote so now. It's not really that it's just the fact that the people already head they. They're a permanent under cost because their defective stateless you know The second question essence this so this yeah any movement. That's not pushing for. I feel independence autonomy from this kind of assistant is of no service to the people that are following it. The only thing they're doing is feeding them. That's it those are nationalist movements. Have you heard. Oh yeah i just. I just about software winfield just said I liked the balanced image. That was giving up garvey In that despite all his flaws which the actually name they show you add conceptions of european unstructured that he incorporated movement. And you thought that was actually solution even though it was mistaken both things. And even though he had a lot of short on the movements He actually genuinely tried to go. The nationalist route and to build a black nation. So i think it was the worth it Despite all that she gets way more respect credit than someone who went much further arguably in some ways. Like it's randolph. But in the wrong direction woodley. Yeah i really liked your way. You're saying winfield's well agree to One thing that is yours are talking that may and Reading a little bit that made me think of is France phenomenon in his work by gala name wretched of the earth heat. He goes hit The whole book is about Nationalist national struggles outside of from colonialism. And he talks about all this stuff that is in this chapter but his his his idea is that you can't you. Can't you have the first stage towards independence and freedom before you can do anything else is to is to create. A matt is to create a national identity that the oppressed people can unite under and that has to be that's more important initially than any anything else To winning freedom. So you it's it's the gathering of all those people and then from there. You can obviously develop that into a framework of socialism. Or whatever you know but the first step is is has to be nationalist. Step otherwise it's too easy to be co opted crushed so In the industry. And the thing is feel like nationalist movements that they have now. They're not really nationalist. If phone ashes movement stay they talk about recognizing people as distinct group but at the end of the day. They're not saying let's have run elections. Listen put our own people that control our own fundamental resources that nation state needs to survive for example food and basic basic economy up the third level They're not saying any of those things. What they're saying is by the end of the day. Vote democrat. Republican is just nonsense is absolute madness so feel like these people are just out to make money and fool people. There's no accountability. And they don't teach him people to be to think of the nationalist mindset which is due for self and if the system that works for you make your own system So yeah i just feel the these things just. I wouldn't be surprised if long after all in the ground one hundred years from. Now you find out that all these things are funded by the state. I have to disagree. I would have to disagree. I think they are sort of forming a Unifying identity Maybe they're not there. In terms of i dunno leaving the state behind but they are. You know trying to use this identity to renegotiate With existing players. You know there's this idea that you take your agenda to politician if they don't you know do as you say then you withhold support from them and you sort of walk away That way and i think but never do but they that well but to the extent like can they influence their supporters to do that You know that's that's the big question that hasn't been resolved yet because we We can't nest a we can't really tell i haven't seen data for you know how many people voted down in the last election or whatever As far as blackie goes but That's their goal. They are trying to like renegotiate These relationships with The powers but this generational divisions and. I'm like you don't even need to down ballot something that you probably found out not too long from now. But at the national level people are still boarded in two kadhamy. They only have two options you know. So then withholding votes so the movement you have a movement when you have. I think they're movement had space to improve like plenty of space to improve. Incorporate some of the ideas that you talked about definitely. I feel that one of the reasons people might not vote down. Ballot is because they don't feel they have control over the wives and they don't In that's why they sort of Sort of i guess throw throw their token in whichever pot they think will return ultimately warm return anything and i think they've got to Until you get these social formations that actually you can Sort of provide for people at some level you might. You might not see that. At all. So i i see that criticism and a i can accept that but i think they are sort of their dairy least like a fourth of the way. They're they're sort of trying to create the national identity. Yeah i disagree with that. But what i'll say is this when you have a movement you have influence over the people if you don't have influence over people you don't have a movement if you provide for the people and have a failsafe against existing system you don't have a movement surreally what you really have is just a lot of bluster and a lot of positioning but nothing yet. And i think they're really long way from it. And the divisive nature of these movements to you can have a you can have an identity but it doesn't have to come at the expense of other people that can be inclusive. There's just a lot of problems with these these things right now and i don't even want to knock them because in a way i'm glad that the exist because at least they're pushing people down towards enlightenment but i still feel like they're not that far from sufficient far from realistic and they're far from practical and I think that this is just a good first step in the evolution of things. But it's i. It's it's not real movement if i could i wanna say two things real quick I think that this does tie into the book. But i think it would be good to kind of make the connections a little more explicit as you talk about them or try to keep that in mind because i think it's requiring people to listen to kind of make that connection themselves so i would try to Challenge you guys to as you talk about this stuff draw parallels A little more explicitly to what was happening in the book. Not because i think what you're seeing is off topic from the book. But because i think it is on topic and i think some people might not On the surface. See senate. yeah yeah exactly. So i feel like garvey would have been like. Don't vote for these people. Because by participating in illegitimate system you'll participation lends legitimacy find alternatives. And he would probably work towards building those alternatives whereas randolph would be like you know this is really bad but if you vote you can get incremental gain. That'd be taken back in five years. And that's what i feel like the movements of today at least a mock in campaigns it today 'cause they're not real movements. The campaigns of today a pushing for it always boils down to still participating and not being actual nationally some acting and doing for self filled garvey despite its flaws he would have been probably capitalists and said you know. Build your you know do this and not realizing the You know the game of capitalism how it really works. He was missing an element there. The west primacy that runs throughout capitalism. But he would have been one that pro. She would prey be somebody today. That would have been like a black hapless. You gotta do this kind of thing. whereas the others would've been like no have faith in the system. Vote down ballot if you have to just put you to sleep and had you participate is normal and ultimately done nothing you know and then four more years you'd be in the same situation again and just rinse and repeat so. That's that's what i'm talking about. That's why i feel like these movements are movement marketing campaigns. They push a lot of bluster and a lot of opinion and a lot of emotion but when it comes to tangible provision they don't provide and they don't give you the tools to make or create and that's what nationalisms about so that's why i feel like they still a long way from where they need to be to be legitimate movements on kind of a side note not a real side no slightly aside note. i joined the app clubhouse and one thing that's interesting there is that that it makes it better than twitter. Even though i'm wary of the thing. Because i feel like most social media apps is made to be addictive as hell and also i think as they open up and become less curated. The quad is gonna come down like a lot of like bad check. Groups are already starting to infiltrate and have really bad divisive conversations and stuff but so far. It's better than i expected but one thing is kind of interesting is there's a lot of eighty on the app and The founders of the movement are pretty active on the app and it's interesting to kind of see them interact with Black people from the rest of the espera and have conversations and it's interesting to see how people quit themselves or have the conversations as opposed to when people talk about these movements in their own kind of vacuum. Like you know non. Us people in a twitter thread or podcast talking about eighty s or eighty s people. Una pal castro. A twitter thread talking about Non-nato west groups and then because everyone's like anonymous or using screen names or whatever people hurl invective at each other whereas this thing clubhouse they kind of have they ever real name rule. I mean you can't guarantee some is using the real name. But for the most part people to be using the real name and real pictures and that alone i think almost unconsciously forces a certain minimum civility i think talking is different like moderators Keep things in check. And what i what do find interesting. Is i think a lot of these tensions that happen. I'm curious to see if absolute client house are going to make people stop talking At each other and have more productive conversations or just gonna devolve into the same divisions that we've seen from this chat this section of this chapter today to the modern day just in a different format. You know what you know what i mean like but i would encourage people who can get on that app or when app does open up to everybody I'd love to revisit the topic and see what you guys think Whether in this book club were different. Planes 'cause i i noticed ada was seems to keep coming up in this book clubs though. I feel like it's going to be a topic that keeps coming up during that i noticed One side the devil is in the The chapter we We reading was that. The nation of islam was a Wake served like the successor to the garbage movement In america those one side that was made and one of the things that you know you can compare contrast Eidos to The nation of islam is the nation of islam. Does have that sort of Spirit of you know. Make your own business and Selfish type of nationalism. I garden Food of islam kind of thing And like on one hand. That's admirable And i agree with self defense but what is it like. there's this sense that Like garvey's nationalism was going to lead to some sort of i think Fell brand felt. Or at least i got the sense that he felt that arby's nationalism was leading to a confrontation with the state. Like an armed struggle. They would've lost. And i feel that that has sort of touched on this as well like Like the the desire to fall also in the footsteps of Martin luther king to avoid Any sort of violence or advocacy of violence. Or anything like that Couple things just on the the clubhouse thing. I would note that facebook has a real name policy and it is not exactly that like this course so i don't know if only i don't really know much else about clubhouse but yet they mentioned as more people join even if it did start with spirit. It's hard to keep it. I think right now. It's very curated and recommendation. Only so i think what happens is and you have to recommend from your contacts again. Just email someone yet to enter the person into your contacts with your and send them via phone anthony. That's very smarter than because you can't just easily add twitter. Friends or social media. Friends has to be somebody who you're comfortable letting no your phone number. And it sends them the invite from your phone number and not from some third party clubhouse phone number so i think factors like that are kind of forcing people to be thoughtful about who they invite and then the people that they do invite i think if i make a truly type of fake name and everybody might contacts can see me because what happens is you're forced to address contact city app and then you see which contracts are members that kind of force transparency. This kind of a trade off to it. Because you can't just say things that you're worried about your friends and family hearing With ease there. But i think it keeps People a little more honest. But i agree with you. I don't see how can keep that once it becomes less Curated an open to everybody. I think it'll become like what you described facebook as being the collecting data pretty well. Yeah definitely electing data pretty well and I thought that too. Especially because a lot of the people involved the app or like lizard people so That was Something i was wary about. You mean like vc's Venture capitalists won mark and recent person People who are in you know people who are into like the tech world. It's a weird religious cult kind of and they believe in all types of weird transient is New world order type of If you ever cybernetics. And kevin kelly and the founder of wired one of our guests his book really opened me up to her and it was so crazy. On yasha levine surveillance valley. I thought a lot of it was Tinfoil hat stuff. Till i looked it up and it was all true. But it's really. There's a really weird strain of Technological utopianism and this idea of evolving into a better human through the merger of technology and humanity that is jerry humanism yeah transhumance and something called cybernetics which have a lot of overlap with the like the soviet science of cybernetics. This was like a branch of soviet science yet. It was about a kind of like the production increases of of a person with a machine. Right how a man working with machine can can use like you know ten times a thousand times more than someone without a machine right in how you study that and also how you improve that and yeah there's there's some interesting stuff and some really dark stuff. I think that as well. And that's that's strain is very very popular in the history of the internet from its military Incarnation through the sixties. It's it's really interesting stuff but yeah that's exactly what Well i don't know if this is the same as the soviet version but it. This one is founded by norbert wiener in nineteen forty eight I don't know if there's any overlap of the soviet version but He described it as the scientific study of control and communication in the animal and the machine is all about how humans and machines Interact with each other and it was pushed to the point of people imagining humans and machines being almost Merged and if you what a lot of things that they do are kind of making us into cyborgs. In a way in a way. You're a cyborg. You walk around with home. It's never too like it's never life like easier or like you. Your workday like shorter like the dream. Right of the soviet cybernetics Scientists was that we could work to a day where no one had to like. You would really like two hours of work whatever but these guys are like you want you can now integrate with machine so you can work sixteen hours a day. Weeping like it's kind of like like the centaur like the centaur is the idea of like the man on horseback like a sort of merges with the horse and they become one entity like and then you know the cybernetic dream the transhumance extreme is like you merging with your computer becoming a cyborg and they overlap so much that i wonder if one came out of the other but i view. If you're looking guy. Kevin kelly and and you know really weird lineage. Behind all this kevin kelly. I believe he's a hanging out with ken. Casey timothy leary and those merry prankster people and it has a direct lineage to the haight. Ashbury hippies He when you're running around dosing acid on people and trying to make everybody tune in and turn out and all that stuff returning turn on tune hours. Forget what it is. But that's part of the reason why Silicone valley popped up in the bay area. Why i thought it was kind of weird dichotomy that this is the land of hippies but also the land of tech. That's actually not Type of coincidence or polar thing they actually have shared roots and the utopianism of the hippies is part of their type of tech utopianism. It's a bizarre bizarre. I mean surveillance valley by yasha. Wien is very interesting. But if you go on wikipedia and search kevin. Kelly search Whole earth catalog and the people who founded wired magazine are kevin. Kelly is also the firing of wired magazine. And that's very deep into the mission statement of wired magazine as well like this techno utopianism this techno booster resume this urging people to just let technology infiltrate more and more of their their lives. A is gregory bateson ever mentioned because he's like a anthropologist and cybernet assist who Was active. I don't know and he's a. He's a prominent cyber magician. Yes so very good call. You're absolutely you're absolutely right. Yeah i really wanna read that. It's been on my reading longtime levin book a as an aside going back a bit but still related because said no still in the bay area. You mentioned you mentioned the Your doctor you mentioned the Thought there was some ultimate confrontation military confrontation that would come out of the garbage movement It made me made me think about George jackson if you if you read his book Blood in my first question is about his vision for in the early seventies his vision for a guerrilla warfare against the state in the us cities and he like paints like a really vivid picture of like strategies that he seizes and methodologies and it reads like kind of like a dream of like you could. You could read it like as a as a story almost. And it's pretty. it's pretty. It takes you somewhere pretty interesting. I don't really think it's a like a playbook that is like really viable at this point in time but it's really interesting he wanted. If you wanna see somebody who who took that idea all the way okay Yeah own jot that down. I was like. I was thinking about like how we can bring this back to settlers in like Like this talk about cybernetics and all that like there was going on in the early half of the twentieth century and like like wh where does like garvey and and ran all like. Where do they Were they fit into that narrative. Like what actions do we have between these two worlds one thing. I thought of while. We're sorry sorry. We asked the question that we're going to answer your question as well so i'm trying to ask it in the right way but you guys got it. Oh well i was actually going to going to. I'm going to add to your question is. How do you feel 'cause one the question that we generally ask and this was how it's gonna the cybernetics and the internet and the clubhouse and social media and all that stuff when the things like How their actions fit in historical trends and and things like that. And how did he relate this history to the present. I was going to ask a lot of these things that we're seeing. Repeat themselves right and the playbook in here. Are you know that the aspro wars the white handlers Anointing somebody as a leader and using them as you know ways to london reviews and everything. Do you think the internet and silicon valley in this silicon valley's asian of like the silicon valley mindset of how to do things. I feel like it's infiltrated. Activism is infiltrated politics. Everything is disrupt. Everything is Technocratic everything is what people call solution ism the idea that you can make an app or algorithm for anything that big data can solve anything. D think their current trends That are trickling down. To how every day person thinks do you think they're going to further entrench these types of problems that have historically stymied black movements from getting off the ground or the think that A lot of black people on the ground are going to find ways to to paraphrase to paraphrase audrey lord find ways to use the master's tools to dismantle the master's house. He think that is going to be. People are gonna be able to use these trans. Are these tools to actually disrupt the disruptives. Not what you guys Feel or think about that. Most hold on several people talking how. 'bout we choose. Whoever of the people who tried to talk who has spoken to lease so far. I didn't really so yeah. Let's let's let's let willie start off yeah. I don't know if i'll be able to make us point but i think all does reflects Technology and technological eras which we find ourselves so if you look at the movements that talks about everything moves at a slower pace but it builds into more europe way and you were talking about the silicon valley mindset. I think a lot of politics. Now they They move and they're determined by virality By rally in the sense of like you know if you have something that works it will spread like wildfire but also have a very short lived or very short shelf life. i do think that's been a big influence And the other thing. I guess yeah i thought was really interesting. You guys talking about cybernetics if you go back to cybernetics foundational texts. It's a communications concept. Because the field of communications was actually a field of study that was interdisciplinary right. It brought together actually Theology technology and engineering Anthropology as well it's not really wasn't really considered its own field It was a field that was built out of many other fields and I think that Yeah having yeah. I think cybernetics would be a really great component to bring in discussion of like i guess. Current labor labor conversations labor conversations around working class struggles but I'll leave it at that. There's a lot of traffic where i'm at personally i. I don't think. I think that the social media and internet and everything as actually made everything much much more difficult. It's much easier to get aloft leaders popularize. it's much easier to be surveilled. And i don't think there's a single example of where new technology has led to any sort of real people movement. That's been successful in any way. I can't think of a single one. A the arab spring may be like some people are trying to say that bike that was was led by twitter and facebook and stuff and like to create was but the end result for none of those movements from the arab spring turned out to be positive and like in long term. So i don't. I don't think there's any examples of it becoming easier. Compared to forty fifty years ago. I guess fifty six years ago where there were tons more lucians and like movements or successful. Just clarify yeah. I wasn't saying that it was becoming easier. I just wanted to draw the parallel between you. How the technology influences political movements only agree with you is not necessarily more durable faculties counterproductive in many ways. I don't think that technology really changes anything because ultimately if you look at the building of the technology the capital doesn't come from minority communities the labor for the most part doesn't come from the oppressed when the products bill. It's not really. I being used by the oppressed you know. So and then ultimately once it becomes a mainstream thing usually what happens is all of the existing players in the economy become a presence on that and they become the loudest voices. So i don't see how these technologies as of yet and even the companies when they become more robust and they're more mainstream and they'd have maximum work for state. These tech companies are still rolling with one or two percent black people. And i'm sure that there's more than one or two percent of the black people in the population has worked there so the entire existence of these things isn't going to change anything because it's just not built to and the product itself doesn't it just create like you said like a funky said you get more surveilled it becomes just another tool box for the oppressor another tool the two bucks at the oppressor but not for the person that wants to be liberated. And that's the whole point. Why i think. The nationalist concept is actually accurate because the ultimate the oh the end of the day. All these things are tied one thing. And that's the individual people the atomic elements that said buying using all that. If they don't use those things then they can't be really applied to them. You know we can chat a pro father stuff like that but if you have your own platform for your own people the revenue the labor all those things go back to that community and you have you have something that you you have something in economy of your own. So that's why i feel like The second analogy isn't gonna i. It's never going to be a real game changer. It might be good at vocalizing things but about changing things is no. There's no material designing that would help empower anybody. You know so it just it just becomes a it just comes mocking tool. So let me. Would you say that it technology would simply not improve Situations of the past. Like what happened with w e b dubois. Marcus garvey are a phillip randolph. Marcus garvey or are you saying that it actually would make those historical divisions Reenact themselves in an even worse way like you made it clear. You don't think it worth no. It wouldn't do in a worse way. It just do it. In a way that's relevant flippable to the time and the medium of happening. That's all if this if it was one hundred years ago and you had technologies the same dynamics where the happened to season does not game changing anything all good game changing for the worst order. Better just change now okay. Exactly it's just a it's just like i said if you look at it a hundred years ago and now you can say the matrix rebooted and everything that everybody's relatively in the same position as they were back then. The only differences is just a shinier mousetrap. You know that's it successfully the same and so people have their own stuff. Their own technologies that they own they work for the create that they have a server rooms for and everything like that they have the infrastructure for and the land for the resources for then they'll be standing equal and they could be equal competitor and if two people committed to it it will be event. It'd be a viable. A viable product in the company be available entity but without the institutions without the by from the people without a real serious nationalist mindset to commit such things. No you have nothing. That's really what the nation is people united and connected around the national concepts their own concept. Not somebody else's not trying to be somebody else's so Yeah that's essentially it. You know going on but go in depth on it and that was like the idea that you know these forces sort of control. These new technologies. And what's important about that. Is that the technologies will have those 'bout like that they sort of These people imbue them with like facebook. You know various founders have said that they looked at you know psychology. They were always trying to get people like more online more into facebook and whatever and they of designed it that way to drive engagement So that they could You know get ad revenue and that kind of thing and and turn it gives. You don't have to have a server like you could have like a small Like a social media app on your long that isn't like placed on the server but the data is directly Held on your device locally social media called many verse and it's basically you trae data like through bluetooth with the people Around and you put their data on your phone and it it takes up memory but you know you can do it that way. You can be this over you. Can you can have your phone. Ask the server so real real quick I think we're approaching the time that we should start the second reading but rather than go through the rest of the guiding questions because i feel like We touched on a lot of it and the stuff that we didn't touch on. I think we already know the answers to like How do public schools deal with this history. I mean. I think we know they don't talk about this so i don't think we have to Discuss that and the questions like how did these events shape everyday life. I think we've touched on and And the other ones like who was discussed and what were the goals and tactics. I think we've touched on that. I would ask. I think the only thing we have asked is Is sokai leaving anything out. And if so what and speculate why and does the kyw offer any solutions. So i would draw out there for the next ten minutes to whoever wants to answer either question. Just one sentence. Like when i talk keep it really short and then someone else could follow up and expand on that but i think sokaiya ultimately talk throughout the he get the idea that he's pushing towards national and struggle. 'cause that's the only way people will be able to get you know freedom and have the humanity respected. He's he's ultimately pushing towards the nationalist project. i think that's the only way to to create different nation states or at least one nation state that can act as a balancing force against against jerry against the majority in this country so That's all i got. I think one thing. I think that he doesn't define neo-colonialism despite being the head of this chapter which was interesting looking up on Into the baird wesson quiet. I can't hear you at all your muffled. You're even quieter than you were. Before a funky could you repeat what you just said before. Whistled just intern. The things that he left out. I don't key like effectively defined neo-colonialism or how or its comparison to colonialism explicitly. Here despite the name of a chapter willie do you want to take Take another shot. See if you if you're going higher and that was the devoid void. Oh i'm sorry devoid saw. I don't know what happened between the last spoken now. But yeah maybe needs to speak more directly into the microphone. Maybe yeah more than up to my mouth. Now the can you a. It's still kind of low. It's better than the last time you spoke but it's still a little and still am. I mean we can understand you. If i put my ears right up to the micro speaker that better a little bit i can understand you. That's good I wanted to go back to bed. Rest and he was brought up and wasn't sure when this information came out but that he worked for the cia. And i thought it was very telling you know he's randolph's disciple and the quote that Funky put into the chat here. That where he said of randolph. He realized that. Separatism whether espoused by two marcus garvey or ladder day nationalists is grounded and fantasy and myth despite its emotional appeal to oppress people black. He realized could never advance without good. Feeling an assistant of many whites and to bring that Today i see what Winfield's talking about a with a lot of the black movements today and How they root themselves still in the so colonial pilot politics whether there be election electoralism or Just having this wanting to appease by people or deal with white people in the way that satisfies their own need their own needs above The people that you should be advocating for antao. that's not really going to solve issues of liberation. That sokaiyas getting that. Maybe they want their own sort of issues. like avia. Last wants to push for reparations to push for A separate identity for You know eighty s people rather than just like this identification for blacks. I'm not sure it's there like some sort of understanding that a us is supposed to be like what like sukhothai talking about with the garnett. Or 'cause i've never gotten that. Buy from them. I do have their own particular interests and whether they wanted to go the route of garp you like. I've never felt that are the nation of islam more continuous. Yeah we had a long discussion about that. Yeah yeah we did. Like i feel like going back to that Would take another thirty. Was that would take another thirty minutes to react. Yeah exactly and i think when you end up Like eighty percent of it would be recovering ground. But the one thing i will say is i feel like unless we have actual people like active in the movement in here Who like are really into like you've carnell and Antonio mora and stuff then. I feel like we're just going to end up kind of paraphrasing or like Yakub i don't know the extent to which you are Verse in their stuff. But i just feel like there's a risk of because i know i'm not qualified to characterize their beliefs for them. You know what i'm saying. And i just feel like we just end up kind of Talking about an image of the mostly more than what they Unless someone in the chat in this chat has been a doctor yakub one. When i am just jews in here to be someone who is like very versa stuff. You see what i mean. So it's like I'm not averse to talking about the topic in general. Just feel like what you said. We've talked about it a lot already today. And number two I feel like with this up that we have. It'll just kind of we need more experts in it too. I think really do it. Justice to justify going back to the topic again. You know what i mean. it's fair. yeah This willie in a jump in special shirt. I just wonder if anybody can tell me like the main difference. Like we call nationalist movement and then a segregationist movement in terms of black americans. Because i feel like you know. Garvey also had this plan to offer and that's a distinctive thing. I think he didn't just want their own for my understanding. He didn't just see the outland within the us. I wonder if national movement this action I'll get. I'll give my kind of facile understanding of it you know. Don't take this as an authority could. Could you repeat his question. Oh i think he was asking about the Similarities or differences between nationalism and segregation Willie would just say. That's a proper distilling yeah like crow segregation is in the us sue and then you know black. Nationalism base aimlessly backs in the us versus black. Nationalism okay yeah like is there a distinction and is land. An important notion either reported notion sokaiya talks a lot about land and garza wanted land for really believes in their own separate land. And from what i understand in the us movement. I haven't heard about of land. Well one thing. I think is one thing i think is very common. There's a lot of overlap between them and the canada shows and that both elijah muhammad and Marcus garvey at some points met with the klu klux klan and white nationalist under the idea that. Hey we're as fine not being around you is. You are not being around us. Even though some people view that later as a misstep like you know she shouldn't just take the enemies of my is my friend thing malcolm x. Himself expressed regret about allowing himself to be used in that way. So you know totally different. The fact that notable people black nationalist lysm were willing to try to find common ground or coalition with White nationalist and white segregationists. But i think probably the main difference is that there's a sense of self government and sovereignty that happens or black national nationalism. That i don't think it has to exist in segregation segregation. Just means you got a separate facilities but it doesn't necessarily mean that you necessarily have your own Vibrant power structures or land on food production. Rest black nationalism. Even if they do agree like i think black nationalism necessarily has to have some appreciation of segregation is but subrogation is don't necessarily have to have any appreciation of the idea of black nationalism. In addition i think a lot of them are actually in practice Hostile to it. So i think it's probably a difference of agency and a difference of Of bargaining power in my understanding of segregation is essentially the surrogate shenice. They will have their own court but it was soviet federal court flying under the us flag. If you're a nationally you want your own court system so segregation just means you occupy the same land and you acquiesce to power. The dominant society. And you just saw that society. The most you could ever have is some kind of autonomy regional very localized autonomy but Nationalism is a to- breakway from that state. You're not flying their flag anymore. Ear on person doing yourself from taking care of your own business and deal your people. Yeah exactly and some people have the idea of nationalism on domestically as in we can create a nation within the nation. And it'll be like a almost like a succession thing which Some people have given plans foreign theorize. And you know. I don't really find it very viable but That movement does exist. But then i think what people like garvey wanted to do was to create this kind of Black nation that anyone in the diaspora is you know. Welcome to but outside of america you know. And that's where the black star line was. So i think there's domestic national zimmer Nationalism it takes place. Outside of america. I will say that As far as ato's goes event has talked about inequality in land in quality and says that. it does do need land Of course you includes it as part of the agenda reparations land cash payments so and so forth. yeah and i think One thing i've heard a speak about to the idea that Part of the money. That's useful reparations. Nothing is stopping people from Coming up with stopping them. Coming up an agenda for using that money to Do community land-buying and stuff like that. I feel like i've heard her talk. I shouldn't be. I have a bad memory. So i might be. I don't want to accidentally ascribe to her. That she didn't say so. Actually scratch that. Forget i forget. I said that. Because i'm not hundred talked about land inequality regardless of whether or not she said you know reparation money could be used to You know collective land by. She did she definitely has talked about the land problem. Is it possible to have her as a guest. So that way she could evaluate and go through with walk through platform and perspectives. You know here it straight from the horse's mouth also. Can you repeat that you broke up with my antipathy to have her back on as a guest you know. Second time that would be Good maybe i could have on in a form like this where people can actually Talk back to her instead of me. Just asking the questions because then people could ask questions in real time so maybe in a book club. Chapter even I'll reach out and see she's willing to The same we have him to me and Michael jackson and different people coming from movie nights. Something they could do in the future is for certain chapters Have guessed who are kind of experts in chapter. Come on. there's something i was thinking about. Maybe we can do that with her in our future. Installments settlers. i think is important. Because although i'm not fully bought into it i still think it's important and i still think it has value and i still think it's a good start it but it's just that i'd like to hear what she says and flush it out more because i think that would do the audience a massive services as well as her in terms of you know putting it out there and just giving everybody that clarity and understanding you know Yeah for sure and I think it's a good place to Stop and move onto the next reading and if anyone has something about this segment that they felt they didn't get a chance to say feel free to Bring it up in the Next discussion segment and without further ado. Let's play the final part of chapter nine. Nine point five chin five world war two and americanization world war two marks a definite point at which national movement of the oppressed within the us empire with thrown back and the growing hegemony of neo-colonial politics firmly established at home. This neo-colonialism to the well prepared form of the americanization of offering enforcing the colonially oppressed supposed citizenship. In the us empire in place of national gration of course while the americanization of the european immigrants during the wool one period meant that they voluntarily became settlers and euro americans the americanization of the colonia press men involuntary confinement as supposed minorities camped on the edges of settlers society. This was the ultimate civil rights global and the us empires expansion moved into a new stage in colonial relations on the one hand the liberal roosevelt administration had gone out of its way to try to convince third world peoples that the new deal was their friend and protector. This was done in a manner by now. Very familiar to us. New deal secretary of the interior. Harold ickes wasn't aggressive patron of civil rights. Ex was in fact the former president of the chicago end of lacey. Pe- chapter he. eleanor roosevelt. The president's wife arranged for african intellectuals and professionals to get federal appointments the practices of the lynch belt south was sympathetically deplored in the urban north welfare programs opened up for africans and by thirty thousand nine hundred eighty four some fifty two percent a majority of the african refugee population. The north were on relief. This actual smoothly performed post. A samuel loophole described how it looked too. Many petty bourgeois africans support the new deal to the younger negroes. The wpa relief not only material aid but a guarantee that no longer must they work at any salary given them that they are entitled and they emphasized the word to a living wage through the wpa. Harlem's negroes have had to them white call opportunities which before had been shut such as the music and art writers projects negros to remember that miss roosevelt visited holland. Personally that president roosevelt had appointed more negroes administrative positions than any president before him each time. Roosevelt makes such an appointment the amsterdam news homs leading newspaper headlines in seventy two point type every young negro gets vicarious thrill thinking they may be up there for me while the little liberal roosevelt administration kept up a steady propaganda campaign throughout the nineteen thirties and nineteen th and early nineteen forties claiming to be the finest friend negroes ever had the period was a time of savage attacks so destabilize the african nation. There was a conspicuous deindustrialization of african. Employment is pushed out of the main imperialist economy for a while. It appeared on the surface. Though africans would simply victims of the depression. Suffering a heightened version of the company shared joblessness but by nineteen forty the voice of do boys and others who had pointed out a genocidal padma proven right in nineteen forty thousand nine hundred eighty one. The depression finally broke the war in europe in nineteen thirty nine had bought new orders. For steel munitions ships trucks and other industrial products. Factories were adding shifts for the first time in years and euro. American unemployment is going down rapidly throughout the loss. Half of nineteen forty and nineteen forty. One africans were bought from the new production however the industrial employment was going down as more and more new jobs opened up corporation of corporation issued public statements that they knew plans to be one hundred percent. Euro american led by colt firearms consolidated aircraft chrysler corporation north american aviation similar industrial giants. Corporate america opening was saying that patriotism required keeping africans out imperialism itself will recognize the boundary between oppressor and oppressed nations after the war began the anaconda company's wyatt and still division in new york or at a bar and hiring labourers from any countries. No italians germans or negroes. Colonial africans were untrustworthy from the viewpoint of imperialism. The us government itself reflected this genocidal program once we go past. The white house is propaganda campaign between october. Nineteen forty in april nineteen forty one. The african percentage of those place in factory jobs by the us employment service jobs by over half from five point four percent down to only two point five percent the us navy into instituted a new policy in the shipyard. We're an all negro workers would have to wear an armband. The big letter n the navy rejected an end of lacy protests that the end badges were just like labels used by nazi designate jews in may nineteen forty one chairman autho all my the social security board issued an official statement that the board would continued support white supremacy. The liberal pro imperialist african leadership were being pushed to the wall. The had urged african remain loyal to the settling empire and had increasingly little to show for it while they had taken swift advantage of both repression. And the internal contradictions of nationalist movement to get a political predominance over african communities the top position was unsteady many signs indicated that the national political current was strong on the streets at the grassroots of the nation in nineteen thirty three the jobs for negroes movement from chicago to harlem surprising as it may sound today. Many of the committee's jobs are held by euro americans in the retail stores. Which were mostly. You're american owned all the sales clerks cashiers managers and secretaries or your americans even saving five percent of the bartenders in harlem where settlers although all the customers were african and the source where in the african community even the most pathetic white collar job reserved for a euro american only particularly under the grimm conditions of the depression. Many in the community at angrily pointed out this contradiction national campaign sprung up around this issue in harlem led by street corner named sufi abdul hamad formerly known as eugene brown. The sufi was a self taught pan africanist and teacher of eastern mystic philosophy. In retrospect it may appear unusual that such a long political figure could play such an important role but this only underscores the tremendous leadership vacuum that existed together with a of unemployed college students if he had recruited he organized picketing an illegal boycotts of harlem stores. The campaign continued for five years. With merchant of the merchant. Having a compromise in high africans during these years the jobs for negroes movement was illegal subject hits a court injunctions and arrests as well as opposition of both the liberal civil rights leadership end of lease ep urban league reverend adam clayton powell junior etc and the cio and cpa usa for years only the small grassroots nationalist groups for more for jobs in jobless community while both see psa in home churches started jobs committees. These carefully obey the law and did nothing except try to divert support from the national struggle in march nineteen thirty five. The smoldering anger over genocidal pressure is squeezing african. Life burst out in a spontaneous uprising. The early harlem riot so tens of thousands of africans taking over the streets for three days attack and police in liberating the contents of stores. The liberal pro imperious leadership were helpless and ignored by the people. Indeed afterwards the euro american capitalism politicians bitterly castigated the african allies for having failed to control the masses. Everyone agreed that the popular response to the nationalist johnson. Negroes campaign was an important factor in the uprising. The new york times in their obituary on sufi summit in nineteen thirty eight gave hostile acknowledgement. The death of the sufi ended a career that had affected holler more deeply than that of any other cult leader soofi his followers on the picket line with placards saying by way you can work in front of stores whose proprietors he accused of refusing to high negro help. He reached the height of his power in the winter of nineteen thirty four to thirty five and his picket lines were saw trial to haul a merchants. The tension that resulted from this combined with other causes friction resulted in the fatal holum race. Riots of march nineteen thirty. Six imperial imperialism's response was to help the handpicked. African civil rights leaders take over the issue with a big propaganda campaign patriot. The liberal integrationists as the militant leaders who had supposedly one new jobs for jobless africans in one thousand nine hundred thirty eight years. Cream court ruled the jobs. Boycotts finally legal this a big name. Integrations coalition took over the jobs for the negro struggle in harlem the ymca the urban league the major protestant denominations the cio. The say all joint support the new leadership of the reverend adam. Clayton powell junior over the campaign newspaper. Headlines enjoys victory celebrations greeted the wave of unprecedented agreements between powell's coalition and business. It appears as though pro imperialist integrationism was the key to bring economic improvement to harlem. What was absolutely true. Was that while concessions. Gained africans would being fronted off. An example is a historic nineteen. Thirty eight pack between powell's coalition and the uptown chamber of commerce which was hailed in the newspaper headlines holum compact give negroes third of jobs in stores there but in the fine print. No specific number of jobs promised in return for agreeing to end up protests and boycotts. The coalition got a promise to africans would eventually be hired for only one third of the clerical jobs only into harlem stores and even there only as replacements when of a euro american employees. Quit joint statement. Reverend powell and colonel philip of the chamber of commerce said the settlement reach. Today's historic is the first agreements of kind and will help quiet unrest in harlem because it is proof that white business leaders sympathetic interest in the economic problems of the colored race. Even more to the point the neo time said the pact was reached because of year of racial uprisings so whatever jobs regained were really one by the african masses and violent uprising and by the grassroots nationalism which alone spoke to their needs an interest the tamed in carefully controlled jobs campaign was used to picture. Reverend adam clayton powell. Junior and other pro imperious leaders as militants is leaders who really fought the white power structure and won all kinds of things africans in one thousand nine hundred eighty one poem to see on the new york city council. His campaign was supported by mayor. Fiorello laguardia the republican party. And the radical american labor party powell was a prominent member of this radical settlers party in nineteen forty four. He became a us congressman. Will he achieved national fame for leading a fight. Desegregate congressional facilities in the press. He was named mr civil rights. Small concessions and cosmetic victories but there was still no change in the basic situation. Africans were still being driven off the land out of the industrial economy. The nation was being stabilized in one thousand nine hundred. Thirty eight the great spontaneous movement over the italo upn wa- swept dispersed african nation. National politics again revived in african mainstream wall to whitehead of endless. Ep wrote of nineteen forty. One discontent and bitterness. Were going like wildfire among negroes all over the country march on washington movement in this situation the best games the wall. The integrationist leadership was forced to put pressure on the imperial masters. The a philip randolph's and the roy wilkins desperately needed some real concessions that they could take back to their community. The also saw that it was a long range sense. In imperialism's own interests make concessions to ease up to give africa neocolonial leadership a stronger hand against revolutionary sentiments. It was out of this crisis that the march on washington movement was born in early. Nineteen forty one. A phillip randolph. Together with walter hawaii. The acp called for massive african demonstration in washington dc. The goal was to force the new deal to integrate the military and to open up jobs in the defense industry federal agencies. randolph said. Black people will get justice until the administration leaders in washington see massive negroes ten twenty fifty thousand on the white house lawn. This'll be the first african mass march and the empire's capital it was a confrontation between imperialism. And its own. African allies the march on washington movement issued a call to negro america to march on washington for jobs and equal participation in a national defense on july first. Nineteen forty one. Their fellow negro americans be not dismayed in these terrible times. You possess power. Great power a problem to hitch it up for action on the broadest daring and most gigantic scale shakeup white america president roseville the mo w demands by june of nineteen forty one. There were strong signs that the masses of africans were preparing to come. Churches were chartering fleets of buses worried. The president's wife and may laguardia met with randolph in new york city urging him to cancel the march ms roosevelt toll randolph that there might be repression if the march took place besides she said such marches impractical. Say you'll be able to get twenty. Five thousand negroes come to washington. Will they stay though. They washington of nineteen forty one with the suit southern city. Originally jim crow virtually no port facilities for colored ville had laid down one threat runoff politely. Honest with another while they'll stay in the hotels and the restaurants runoff was threatening a massive breaking of the color bar crabs of africans pushing into white areas all over the capital and the resultant rates thousands of africans and set the police clashed the stakes were high and integration of leaders. Were preparing to have an open confrontation. That alone should tell us how critical the situation was the very next day. The white house invited to emo w leaders to come for negotiations cancelling. The march randolph. Walter white met with president roosevelt. Who had brought in william chairman of general motors and sidney hillman of the cio. The emily w leaders rejected the offer of the usual study commission finally on june twenty-fourth nineteen forty one. The white house off to meet randolph's demands on employment the next day roosevelt signed executive order number. Eighty eight oh two for which the first time there should be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense industries or government for the first time a fair employment practices commission. Mvp was set up to pretend to do something about job. Discrimination of course macho off in network radio address. The threat of touching off the african masses had produced an surprising turnabout in public imperialist policy the breakthrough credits randolph. Who became america's officially endorsed protest leader. He shouted with awards. The amsterdam new said a phillip randolph courageous champion of the rights of his people takes the helm as the nation's number one negro leader already. He's being ranked with the great frederick douglass as we know from the nineteen sixties these official promises of themselves meaning very little in the way of real change the gathering pressure from the masses below the still unorganized militant nationalist sentiment building among the grassroots had crowded pushed on us imperialism. A nodal point was being reached. Notice was taken. The africans were not willing to passively starved further. Us imperialism understood the meaning of the startling fact that even their chosen african allies could not shrug off the pressure from the african people on the streets but had to either lead them into struggle will be left. Behind imperialism's contradiction was that it had to bow straight down the african nation and also grant sufficient concessions the african masses to save up rebellion. We must remember that. There was a strong rising tide of african struggle. The share cropper outbreaks on the national territory. The violent that souckova holland for three days. The mass anger that finally forced even imperialism's african allies to make threats against it all convincing signs of even larger rebellion. Soon succumb locked into a rule or ruin global. War could the empire afford to also divert troops in energy to fight. Major colonial was at home. This was the heat that finally bent. Even the iron rule of empire the need for colonial labor. This contradiction was resolved through the specific form of americanization imperialism enforced on africans the genocidal campaign to change the population balance and repressively disrupt. The african south would continue without let-up but the pill would be sugar. Coated in in northern exile. Africans could suddenly get not only democracy but integration into middle aged jobs in industrial production. New deals win. Willingness to integrate imperialist industry was a one hundred eighty degree turnabout from previously existing policy and was also taty recognition that the unprecedented demands of waging a global war required the recruitment of colonial labor on a vast scale. These jobs were no gift from america but a necessity forced upon it by threat of revolt and by the urgent needs of world conquest. The transformation was dramatic robert c. Weaver one of roosevelt's black cabinet wrote that the various rules that kept africans out of industry with change because after pearl harbor they were too costly too costly for a nation at war to afford he noted further. This occupational pattern was slowly changing by nineteen forty two while the majority of new colored workers were entering unskilled in janitorial jobs. Other negroes were slowly finding jobs as welders as rivers and on other production operations negroes replaced white workers who formerly employed as cooks waiters garage attendants. And who now entered defense work between nineteen forty two and nineteen forty four. The percentage of industrial labor that was african triple from two point five percent to eight percent by nineteen forty four. The numbers of african skilled craftsmen had suddenly doubled as had the numbers of africans in federal civil service jobs by nineteen forty five the numbers of africans in the afl cio unions. Had gone up some six hundred percent to one point. Two five million african families lift share cropping and daily burned rural south and forced north. The incomes rose even the lowliest factory job in detroit. Chicago paid better than the rural plantation. The real average incomes of african workers rose by seventy three percent during nineteen thirty nine to nineteen forty seven the largest gain in african income since the end of slavery. This was the material basis in mass life for neil colonial americanization. This sudden windfall of white man's wages was for some a convincing argument that loyalty to the. Us empire made sense. it allowed a phillip randolph. And reverend adam clayton powell junior to prove that. The leadership paid off in cash and that imperialist world war was good for africans and of course this process once again reinforced the neo-colonial ideology in which third world people are told that they must look to the federal government in washington as the ultimate friend and protector roosevelt. Just replace lincoln on the alter. The process shoe coated the forced exodus from the african south and even allowed pro imperial propaganda to assert that the depopulation of the african nation was a benefit to africans this integration into the main industrial economy however dramatics affects only directly reached a minority of the nationally oppressed for the first time how ever some significant number of colonial workers could struggle for the american lifestyle with houses automobiles appliances consumer items college education for the children. And so on again. This was a semi european standard of living a miniaturized version of that of euro americans but materially well above that of other colonial peoples in latin america asia and africa imperialism cared little that most of the nationally oppress hair did not have those middle aged jobs or the new petty bourgeois positions opened up by token integration. What was important to imperialism. Was that these inviting possibilities for some created. Ideological confusion pro imperialist tendencies and social disunity. The also were a magnet to draw people to the northern industrial centers and out of the national territory. The dislocation of imperialist war america's colonies were forced to bear a heavy often disproportionate share of the human cost of world war two. This was no accident. The roosevelt administration promoted this nation of the nationally oppressed pushing and pulling his many. Puerto ricans indians asians. Chicano mexicanos and africans is possible to become involved in the us war effort. Not only because we were needed as cannon fodder and wool industry labor but because mass participation in the war disrupted communities and encourage pro and perilous loyalties close to a million africans alone served in the us military during the nineteen forties. When we think about what it would have meant to subtract. million soldiers. sailors airmen from the empire's global efforts. We can see how important colonial troops were in many third world communities the war. Burdens were very disproportionate. The chinese community in new york being so heavily unmarried men do immigration laws so forty percent of its total population drafted into the military in colonial. Puerto rico the imperialist draft drain. The island many did not return one. Puerto rican writer recalls his small town. So many bodies of young puerto ricans in coffins covered with the american flag. They will board in by military vehicles and placed in living rooms where they will mourned than viewed. The mornings never cease in south police. Almost every day cao's wakened by the moans and wails of widows parents grandparents and orphans whose loved one had died defending their country. The same was true in the jocano. Mexico south west. A kuna notes that the percents of jakarta's who served in the forces it was disproportionate to the percentage of chicanos in the general population. He further notes chicanos. Huw can readily remember. How families proudly displayed banners with blue stars each star representing a family member in the armed forces. Many families had as many as eight stars with fathers sons and all serving in the. Us war effort everyone recalls the absence of men between the ages of seventeen through thirty in the barrios as will progress goal stars replaced the blue gold representing men killed in action. Given the barrios the appearance of a sea of death third world people were told in effect that if they help the us empire win its greatest war then loss. They too would get a share of the democracy as a reward in every oppressed nation and national minority many elements mobilized to push this deal. We should note that those political forces opposed to this ideological americanization were driven under or rendered ineffective by severe repression civil rights leaders fell all over themselves urging people are going kill and die for the. Us empire the rhetorical contortions were amazing. A phillip randolph. The supposed socialist said that africans should enlist in the admittedly unjust war in order to reform it. He admitted that this is not a wolf for freedom. It's a war between the imperialism of fascism and nazism and imperialism monopoly capitalistic democracy. But he told. African workers bhai getting an integrated what effort the people can make a people's revolution. An avowed pacifist and advocate of total african. Non violence in the us randolph. Nevertheless said it was right for africans to fight in asia and europe following the same two front war thesis. Reverend adam clayton powell. Gina enthusiastically agreed that the japanese attack on our base at pearl harbor forced africans to fight so long as the government was going to give them integration on december seventh nineteen forty one america for the first time in its history answered upon to was simultaneously was a world war and the other civil war. One was to be a bloody fight for the preservation and extension of democracy in a world basis the other a bloodless revolution. These shows against the best democracy. The sneak attack of japanese upon a mid pacific base was no more vicious than the open. Attacks had been waged consistently for four hundred years against the declaration of independence the constitution and the bill of rights taking part and the imperious wall was praised as patriotic. Not only to the us but to the race by or chicano mexicanos or africans serving in the us military. We were supposedly helping people's earn full citizenship rights by proving to america so the war period so strange contradictions. Perhaps the shops ernie of the win. Your freedom game was that of japanese americans we drafted right out the us concentration camps until that i- willingness to fight for us. Imperialism would show whether or not people were disloyal. The all japanese military unit the four hundred and forty second regimental combat team was used by the us army as a disposable shock troops to be thrown into bloody situation in europe. The full hundred and forty second had over nine thousand. Purple hearts awarded for three thousand soldier unit or a breakthrough and rescue the lost battalion of texas national guard. Settlers cut off and surrounded by the german army in france. The full hundred and forty seconds took more casualties than the number of settlers saved one knee. Say sergeant room is how k company of the full forty second went in with one hundred and eighty seven men and when we got to the texans. They were seventeen of us left. I was in command because all of the officers were gone but i company was down to eight men. Political effects of the war were not simple. It definitely marked the end of one period and the start of another. The pressure had been replaced by the fruits of military victory. High unemployment feel by new world markets in us international supremacy the massive dislocation of the war coming up for the harsh repression of the nineteen thirties in the war period itself and the jet propelled rise of neo-colonial citizenship. Had definitely sidetrack many people kuna rights. So that kinda makes kinda movement. Much of the momentum of the movement of the nineteen thirties was lost. Many chicano leaders entered the armed forces. Many were killed others when they returned frankly tired of crusades understandably during the war and when they returned. Many chicano veterans were proud of their records. They believe that they were entitled to all the benefits and rights of us citizen ship. A sort of euphoria settled among many chicanos with only a few realizing that the community had three organiz. May chicanos believed the propaganda emanating from world. War two about brotherhood and democracy in the united states. They thought they had won their rights as citizens for a time the gi bill of rights. Load many chicanos into complacency with many taken advantage of education and housing benefits manager konno's because of their involvement in the armed forces realized that they would never turn to mexico many also became super patriots. Who did not want to be identified. The collective community in the urban bario many parents remembering the tribulations taught their children only english middle-class organizations and for that matter civic organizations became increasingly integrationist in the face of the red baiting of the nineteen fifties. the neo-colonial pesification that came out of the world war two years. It was not a claim but the stillness that came off the devastation. We must remember how once again in the deep south returning african jazz were singled out for assassination by the kkk. In the chicano mexicano south west. The empire conducted a genocidal mass deportation drive of unequal severity. Even the savage immigration rates and deportations of the new deal. Were out done by the new imperialist defensive after world war two believing that the woods have. Labor shortage had permitted to many chicano mexicanos to live inside the occupied territories. The empire started a gigantic military campaign to partially populate and terrorize the southwest under the cover of the nineteen fifty two mccarran-walter immigration and nationality. Act a reign of armed tara descended upon the economics communities. This was cia population. Groupement strategy in textbook form commander. The campaign was held by ins. Commissioner lieutenant general. Joseph swing an open racist and a veteran of general pershing's expedition into mexico in nineteen sixteen swing organized. A series of barrio sweeps with pedestrian stopped and homes broken into often without hearing or any bourgeois legal formalities. The selected mexicanos will be taken at gunpoint to trains and deported homes broken up and communities terrorized some with valid residency papers and us citizenship. Were deported others. Suspected of being revolutionaries were arrested for immigration offenses. Virtually all the militant chicano mexicano labor activists were victims of this campaign. the overall numbers were staggering and team fifty three swings paramilitary units to put it eight hundred and seventy five thousand mexicanos in nineteen fifty four. The number season deported. it wasn't one million thirty five thousand. Two hundred eighty two more than were deported throughout the nineteen thirties. Been in nineteen fifty five and nineteen fifty. Six off to the main job was done. Two hundred and fifty. Six thousand and ninety thousand mexico's respectively were deported. How massive this was can be seen from the fact that in one thousand nine hundred forty one an estimated two point seven million chicano mexicanos lived in the us territories while the nineteen fifty three to fifty six population and recruitment drive uprooted and deported. Two point two million takada mexicanos. This was a fruit of the war. For democracy chinese community which had been largely spared during world war two was the target of a new repressive campaign. The us empire had discovered compare this contradiction of world. War had helped communism and national liberation advance long of u. s. imperialism in nineteen forty-five over fifty thousand. Us marines landed in china to take over. Peak king the chi-lan coal mines and the north china railroad lines by nineteen forty six over one hundred and twenty thousand is china backing up the reactionary koumintang armies the red army. The chinese people swept these forces away during the warriors. The empire had professed friendship towards the chinese community. Since china itself was an allied nation the war against japan now the situation reverse itself. Japan was new. Us junior partner. In asia while communist china was hated in fed by imperialism. Fbi ins against the chinese community breaking up patriotic and klaus organizations the main patriotic mass organization of the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties. The chinese hand laundry association was destroyed the popular china youth club which had fought gambling drugs. Sexism by introducing a modern community. Life was was forcibly dissolved as a communist front china daily news which had been the leading patriotic newspaper lost most of his readers in a frame up. The newspapers manager was imprisoned under the federal trading with the enemy act because newspaper had accepted an advertisement from the bank of china. The supposedly silent chinese community had actually been a stronghold of for national liberation and socialism and was silenced. Imperialist civil rights is also true that this genocidal campaign illustrated how well neocolonial americanization served imperialism. Once in the early years of the century oppressed mexicano and japanese workers shared the hardships of the fields and naturally should labour organizing drives in the abortive. One thousand nine hundred fifteen texas uprising to establish connell mexicano nation japanese recognized as not only allies but as citizens of the to be liberated nation. But by the nineteen fifties is a changed. Civil rights had replaced the unity of the oppressed. The chinese american national minority had been politically broken by the repression of world war two uprooted and recombine into scattered concentration camps. We had faced an intense physical and psychological terrorism. The resistance and defiance even while in the hands of the enemy was considerable. Many of the camp inmates refused to sign. Us loyalty oaths demonstrations took place behind barbed wire. Some ten percent were under even hauch incarceration as a tool lake camp for dissidents and resistors but this popular current of resistance had no strategic direction to advance along the main dissenting. Political views. Had been crushed. Some japanese rejected. Us citizenship and the approximation that had imprisoned them but saw their identity by looking backwards towards the japanese empire cleanser time pro. Imperial groups and propaganda flourished claims of us military advances with denied and the day of japanese imperial victory eagerly looked forward to the unconditional japanese surrender in forty five. Plus news of hiroshima and nagasaki made a vain. Hope out of this perspective yeah. The major dissenting view is communism. A number of young japanese college students and union activists had joined the cpa usa during the nineteen thirties. Japanese-american communists had been active in the cio. Organizing drives in the fish canneries. In opposing the imperial invasion of china and rallying people to fight anti asian oppression all this had been smashed on december seventh nineteen forty one when pearl harbor happened in penick. Sure they fill your americans that the cpa usa was literally american. This revisionist party came out. In full support of the government's concentration camp program for japanese americans even further the cpa usa ordered its japanese american members to rally the community for his own imprisonment and then publicly expelled. All its japanese. American members to show what america that even the communists were against the jets. Communism was completely discredited for an entire generation inside the japanese american community. Leadership of the community was left completely in the hands of the pro imperialist japanese american citizens league the j. c. l. which for forty years has been the main civil rights organization the acl l. In the name of those who suffered in the concentration camps publicly cold for and lobby for the passage of the nineteen fifty two mccarran-walter immigration and nationality act. This was in the best tradition of americanization. And for that matter. Civil rights in nineteen fifty to a phillip randolph. For saying that civil rights meant that africans should go to korea and help u. s. imperialism kill asians provided that the empire give them equal wages in the same way in nineteen fifty two the j. Acl was saying so that so long. Japanese americans got some benefits from it. Why supremacist depopulation of the kana. Mexico communities was fine. This is a sewer philosophy of i've got mine have a mutilated themselves to fit into babylon the. Jcl is even quite proud of what they did. Us senator pat mccaren democrat from. Nevada was a white supremacist. An unknown mexican hater. He device his new immigration laws agenda silently down third world population in general and chicano mice. Konno's in specific. He warned white america that unless they restricted third world population we will in the course of a generation or so change the ethnic and cultural composition of this nation in his crusade for settlers purity. He joined forces with congressman francis. Walter the chairman of the rabbit house on american activities committee congressman. Walter of course was a fanatical. Anti communist led by mike. Massa oca- the j. acl developed a close relationship to congressman. Walter in any case. Jcl leader bill. Hosokawa called walter a strong friend of the aco. The j. acl eventually gave walter special. Would walter mccarron added clauses in their repressive legislation giving some concessions to asians primarily ending the nineteen twenty full oriental exclusion which made it possible for non-citizen japanese become. Us citizens would. This jcl was glad to help sponsor this vicious legislation and give cover to the reactionary wing of u. s. imperialism was sakala. Who has been a senior editor for the denver. Post writes that. The final passage of this repressive law was a supreme triumph of the j. a. c. l. two million mexico men women and children victims of migratory hurried. So very well triumph. That was. that's why the shallow rhetoric that says thirty world. People automatically unite against racism is dangerously untrue pro imperialist civil rights is upon in the crimes of the empire against the oppressed nations. The example of the j. acl was just opening wedge of a strategic process. In which the empire was promoting asians as a buffer between settlers and the oppressed nations. We can see in this daily life by the number of asian professionals and small retailers entering the inner city this process began however with the japanese americans in the years right after world war two oppose in the beginning it may have appeared to some in those years that the us empire had consolidated its fortress america that had one supreme triumph but the streams of national consciousness ran deep within the colonial masses. Adam clayton powell's in the roy. Wilkins occupied the public mainstream of african politics. We can see that. Nationalism was forced out of sight. It's still lives in the grass roots and continue to develop this was historically necessary since anti-colonial struggles and leaders of the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. Had many strengths but did not yet have programs for liberation that could successfully lead the masses. Now we can see that this was a stage in development in opening up new doors and so we can see literally everywhere. We chose to look the seeds beneath to snow. An african guy named robert williams went from asia to enroll north carolina. Having learned something about self defense and world politics in los angeles in the early forties khanna teenagers phoned the pachuco usa cultura. Flaunting zoot suits openly rejecting your american culture. Chicano mexicano historians now see find pachuco movement as the first large current within the chicano movement towards separatism and african ex convicts and draft resistance was building the nation of the lost found. The revolutionary explosions of the nineteen sixties had their seeds in countless ways in the submerged but not lust gains and developments of the nineteen twenties thirties and nineteen forties. And of chapter. Nine okay so I'm going to go with the general questions. I slightly tweaked one of them but not not by much but you know rather than ask everyone um what groups were discussed. I figured since people are listening along with us they know what groups were discussed. So instead i'll start with which of the people slash groups slash stories feature in chapter or section featured resit which of the people slash group slash stories featured in the chapter a section. Do you have strong feelings about what were their goals. What tactics did they use. And how their actions fit in historical trends. And i'll open it to the floor and You guys already introduce yourselves the first go around so just feel free to start talking. You don't have to do the whole introduce yourself again That i lose. You guys are my not. We're not connected. Okay guys are there okay. I think that it was really interesting. Parts the the stuff about americanization. I was gonna ask this earlier. We're talking about a autos. But i earlier in the book right. He talks about how what he calls. The revolutionary communist graces these euro- european immigrants that were not integrated into like anglo saxon culture. Right they weren't lost. They weren't considered to be like kind of like native americans at the time right and the process of kind of like defraying their culture was to americanize them right and turn them into irish americans and german americans and italian americans are so on. I think he talks about a bit here. I think really interesting about how you know. japanese the specifically the j. c. l. a. and kind of like japanese american culture is like concern. It's become this conservative. Like pro imperial movement This kind of like neo-colonial leadership raid. And how this happens. Like i feel like a repeatedly early talks about this with the but with phillip randolph and an earlier section we read with after. Fdr's law the war starts at fdr is kind of forced to integrate a labor on a mass scale on. This kind of stuff is praise because like people start to get the benefits of empire right and so you kind of buy in. And i think that's kind of like a broader point of his book right. Is that as you gain the benefits. Emma meyer you your politics change as a group rate but the only people who have that securely right is is why people anyone else want to share their thoughts either about the original question or about why he just said. I think it's generally agreed with that assessment. I think there was a couple of other things interesting as well when he's talking about a phillip randolph. In how he basically ex super hypocritical in the in announcing his support for joining in world war two fighting for the you ask despite being about socialists in pacifists that reminded me of like how you saw so many people who like anti us and anti like a republican who in this last election where we're pushing for youth vote for democrats because you're gonna use such a you had to. That reminded me of it. And then he was one of the thing. And then i think the other point just add was that The even though randolph and company got forced to actually push for the government actually do something with the march in washington and the government and the government gave in what they gave in was employment. Protection is for the first time the fair employment practices commission was set up to protect and to do something jobs. Griffey combination said like he emphasizes sokaiya sizes and. I think this is kind of recurring thing. Is that even when you get something from the empire. It's not real it's just it's just a token So even the concessions when you make that we force them within this system if you start working within the system and not going to be real. You're not gonna get the material advance that you're expecting for it. Found what i found. Interesting was when randolph. When sokaiya talks about randolph realize ripe for home writes that they needed a concession. so essentially what. He's really telling you. Is that for all that. He's did to undermine the nationalist movements in the ambitions of the people for bet material circumstances he needed a bone to throw it them so he pushed for line and ultimately got one. And i think that goes back to a think gavin was saying was. Yeah even when they give you something. It's it's so hollow for something that if you're a citizen of a place Ready have by default. That should be granted to you yet. You have to beg for it. And that's why. I feel these movements. All these approaches awful short. Because you're essentially you're not begging Forward as Nation begging for scraps of humanitarian. Just seems just seems ridiculous. So that's pretty much. What i got from that part of chapter the malcolm x. Quote about the knife being pushed in getting pulled out an inch instead of going all the way and in the world sokaiya earlier tuxedo. He says that you know the the white working class bakes to be bribed. And i think that's kind of like it's such a good point I was listening to another discussion about a row. Poverty and about how a american a white american farm labor has been destroyed and hollowed out over the last forty years. Right and the chief complaint. was that the democrats. Were kind of doing something about this. And all i kind of think was that like. Why aren't you doing something about it. Then like if you're having this like serious problem like why are you begging greater power to kind of give you something like why not build some minutes independent and kind of can take that Power i mean. These guys are already working on the land. I mean like so like why. Can't they like kind of like take power Independent from that. And why do they have to kind of lead by by the democrats. And i think that's kind of like you know. A big portion of this book is that is that white labor in this country allows itself to be led by you know these groups that are just like the jay z l. Except you know much greater. Someone's gonna someone's going to speak where you're to speak funkier redone just gonna say that Yeah on that point. It seems like even the j. c. l. Like part of reason they came to power wasn't just that they were going to be a visitor. They're willing to integrate. Part of the reason i came to power was because of the betrayal of the japanese members of the communist party. Usa dir at the start of world war two turned off all of the japanese from from the left so they they ran to the sort of like right wing members of the right wing organization at that pushed for integration. There's also a failure of that of the settler. Waft that that encourages it. Encourages that yeah. It's like they. Every time they they reject any sort of like international tie or rejecting always we kind of like. It always has to be this like you know you know working within the system or whatever like it's never working with like a with an outside group and never kind of like taking the leadership of you know another group. It's like you kind of have to like you know the same thing with the usa. Cps say had the japanese people around up their own people for concentration camps is. Just i is that. I think that is ultra. That's emblematic of the left in this country. Even to this day they all that they are few. If anything is going to be a poisoned pill and they'll always tant. They'll they'll help. You tend to new surrounding next the same way. They pushed people to By people like Legislative back in ninety four to vote for that crime. Bill is still. The left hair always pushes people to to to shoot themselves in the foot in some way to to to to fulfill a national agenda. And it's always been like that. That's why i feel like really in this country. There isn't a proper left. You know because it always acquiesces to to the two dominant power and push push interest of everybody else so Yeah okay so moving onto the remaining questions Is the sky leaving anything out if so speculate. What and why I've thought about Did you guys every year malcolm x. Talk about the march on washington. He had a really interesting Discussion on the march on washington wednesday. I thought was pretty pretty interesting. I think he said something about it. Being sort of a grassroots movement that The government asked taking Ask king to get in front of i. yes something. that's something like that. It's basically you got the basic just. But he was kind of seeing how it became kind of co opted by white people. Right people chose which black people they were comfortable with being in in front of it like some people were to radicals. Some people weren't and you know they have to put like one or two token wise like he was basically saying that it By the time it got to the final form the final stage. It was already Co-opted before it even started. Whoa yeah i don't think Anything out because even as the chapter ended he points out the flaws of all the previous movements and they didn't he said that they didn't have programs liberation that could successfully lead the masses. And that's something that really you know carries out today. So i feel like in terms of him talking about the interracial issues between for example the mexicans and the japanese in terms of them getting. There's yeah i think he. I think he's pretty good at covering it from all angles. I don't really feel like he left. Anything out. And i think what he puts together pretty instructive in terms of what's happening. Even today. i feel that the third questions wall like how do we relate to this knowledge today. I think we've covered everything. Yeah i think we have. I think even without especially asking that question. We've you're right we've So you know. I just opened the floor to any thoughts that people had about enough of the sections every red read today. You you know. I have at. Wow people are really not really Let me ask the people Like the section but just not have many Strong feelings about it one way or the other for the people have strong feelings about it but Just don't feel like sharing them right now. I don't think it's the reluctant to share. I just feel like it was really. You're so transparent. That in this part he talks about you. Know people going to fight these imperialist wars and then coming back and still being killed and and discriminated against and not reaping any of the benefits of empire that they fought for. It just seems like it's so it's such a big receipt you know so black and white is just really hard so much contradict you seems like it is what it is this part of the previous part when they're talking about the pan african nationalist movements That that a lot of meat on the bone to discuss. Because there's a lot of powerless those things today that still goes on his unresolved issue but it just seems like this section is history so written and so clear yet. What he's telling you is one thing but the previous section too. Is i think a lot of new information. Like i didn't know all that. But a phillip randolph adam. Much more positive view of him before that actually everybody of a question. I meant to ask the first time but i forgot. Was there anything in the last section or this one as well since we just read it. I'll throw it in there. But i mainly had to stop at the last section. Was there any information last section. That a you already knew and already agreed with or be already knew but Figures but had a whole different idea of them. Which is where. I fall in the guy new for brand of biden. No those problematic aspects of him are see did most people Not know about those figures. Are that history Either the commonly known version or skies version At all i'm kind of curious says to what the average person's relationship is to the material that was covered news. Some of the history. About marcus. Garvey w e b boyce and and If a grant didn't know it this level. I didn't really realize that they re that they. It was him that right to the federal that letter actually sort of was Do boys that did but Yeah i knew that they were both against garvey ism but didn't realize that's how actually played out so just the details were pretty interesting and also Randolph was you know manipulating the pullman. Porters advance himself that. I didn't know about to that that detail and i found that really enlightening and it kinda again is just history repeating itself these using those people's just political capital And you see a lotta the happening today. Even in this last election. I feel the same thing was done with the black vote again So yeah. I found that really enlightening lightning for me. As well i knew some bit of a randolph's history specifically because a lot of white leftists will push him onto black people are. This is what the socialist should be but I didn't know the specifics of a accuse thoughts and feelings. I just knew that. He lives Against garvey asylum. Say miss the boys but Didn't know the extent of it thumping. I didn't know list that a coaching took inspiration from garment. Something that i've never really came across again. I think. I mean. I think i've mentioned this. A bunch of times. But if you're interested in like that conversation interplay. I highly recommend Robin dj kelly's article black. Now you can find a pdf of it online but he just talks in general about how a lot of international revolutionary. He's got inspiration from the black freedom struggle and even met with a lot of black Leaders i feel like the hokey min example. Might be in there too. But i would have to double check but i was like i think that article that people. I think that history is not like. I think it's not like proven or something but i think that there is like whatever some coaching men may have said that he actually worked in harlem during the period at this book discusses in the early nineteen hundreds so he might have been a lot of these movements. Actually know somebody. Somebody's people. When they came to america they were allowed would make a beeline Right to harlem with leaders. So i didn't know until i read robin d. G kelly's article. How many people actually met with Black civil rights leaders and freedom fighters In person up went went there and met with them. there's also another book. I haven't read this book. So i can't verify how good it is not i plan to read it but it's called afro asia. And it's it's it's edited by fred ho and bill mullen and the sub heading. The book is revolutionary political and cultural connections between african americans and asian americans. I'll put a in the book club chat. I'll put a link to it right right here but does appear. I put a pdf of the book in there. I've always meant to read it. Maybe at some point we can covered in the book club. Someone article about ho chairman in harlem. I'll put that in the show notes. This when i put it up. I'm just looking through this article. I'd like not super familiar but it says that that a human was in harlem. He worked at the hotel theresa in nineteen thirteen. So maybe a bit before. I kind of garvey movement really took off a i think that's kind of like a mean a lot of these international revolutionaries. It's kinda fascinating that you know the interplay there. I'll quick question for anyone who's able to open up the linked to the pdf. That i sent. I'm really bad at a of these figures. Can anyone tell me who that. I believe it's wbz wore on the cover Who is he talking to now. Yeah okay so that now okay. Cool beck you're the guy himself. Cool thank you. yes you know. I really like these two sects. Not the whole chapter in in general. I mean it's a kind does have a bit of a weird Organiz and style not a weird writing style like writing style but you know his chapters are very uneven in length and you know cetera but all that is minor compared to the actual substance of them which i always which i always like. You know like. I mean i don't really have much to say about this section myself just because i like like winfield set is pretty self explanatory and the receipts. The receipts are there. I think probably. I would say probably the most we can pull out of this. Chapter is to try to connect it to Modern day situations. But even then i feel much to say except Yet still going going on. It almost feels a little bit too obvious based on all the stuff maybe not to everyone but fishing all the stuff that we tend to talk about a lot. You know what i mean. Yeah and i. It really is repeating itself in every single way. You could find a analog for everything. Because i realized when we were talking about the tech company's before the employment or lack of employment of black people in the in the positions there. You see that same thing when they were talking about harlem with the sufi people could go consume at the store but they couldn't work and they made they passed laws that made exceptions that. It could work there but you know. They obviously didn't have management roles. So it's just it just seems like it's ongoing dynamic when you're stuck in this kind of Cleo bubble that you're gonna keep fighting these same fights again and again and again you know so history will just keep resonance because the dynamics between the people on changing you know i feel this ratio of history and i. I posted an article by this Young black writer and he has another article that oppose that basically It's him talking about a speech you gave about cellphones. We're going to change. You know the interaction between people in policing and all this and then he started getting into like black radical literature like He read about malcolm x. And harriet tubman in that kind of stuff and he's like oh man. That was such a quaint speech. I gave. i didn't know anything. And that's and that's how i feel readings settlers. I haven't given any speeches by mike. Man i i was in texas. You're talking about yes okay. I read that coal. That i'll get a chance to It seemed pretty interesting. Do you remember the title of it. I another when you're talking about. Because he was basically talking about his naievety political naivety and i identified with a lot of it. But i don't remember. I don't have it up in front of me but for people who look it up. Can you name real quick. I'm gonna reposted really fast in the look. Cl- yeah Luana right when we look at the Okay so that's one and he's got another one. That i think is sort of a like a follow up that came out in november. Oh i didn't see to article saw one. So and i haven't posted the second floor right now but my computer's really slow right now. So i'm having trouble switching windows but if anyone has it up just wants to read the name of the author and the article either one. That would be good for people listening so the let me see the first article all of what i learned as a young by political speaker in liberal white austin and it's by jade fa bello and he's this. He's this Native austin knight who Oh never mind it was. It was one he wrote before that one was wait. No no yes it was. It was published after So the the first one of published in june Twenty twenty Wiler and as a young black political speaker liberal white austin and then i went over to his blog and he's got Another one published in austin monthly in november. Twenty twenty and this one is titled. I thought i had to be next milquet to may change. I always raw and that one he he sort of talks about Like reading Douglas and Reading about frederick douglas. And malcolm maxine acids occur whereas the the other one deals with his interactions with white people like cocktail parties where he gives speeches and he sort of a performance artist advocating political change. But he's not really getting anything done in the all the white people around him trying to get them to sort of hedging his His expectations pretty interesting You know that that's what that's what it's about. You know this. Marginally it's something. I've been watching and dealing with his I've been catching up on the west wing. I just wanted to see through to the end. I had to start watching to do the hamilton to do the hamilton Video that i did but then got invited to be on a west wing podcast so as you watch again and then momentum i kept watching it but it's very interesting to see what that article be manually of that idealized way that white liberals want black people to do politics. The west wing is so full of that like simultaneously being mealy mouth and incremental at best about black change but at the same time the liberals being self congratulatory in smug about the opportunities offer every black person that they come across. You know whether it's just empty platitudes. Or both sides. Ism or Patronizing i hear you stuff. And that guy's article was I felt that that article was a good reminder of how i think a lot of people are really pushing back against that there's an entrenched group that a lot of the white powers that be are trying to keep front and center to keep people in that space but a lot of people on the ground are not going for it. And it's a got the tokens whose job it is to guess Beat a sheepdog for black people. And the negro whispers. It's got them scared about their own relevance and job security and has got. I think the white people in question scared as we doing mean know how to pick good sheep dogs any anymore. I feel like twitter. His l. created this Like Like public space to just ridicule people who are shape dogs so easily seen through that they paid loose steve before they even get it. And you know that's really true. Like as much grief as i give twitter a lot of deserved I think it has done some good in that arena as far as giving people a way to Discredit a lot of these nonsensical people or expose them might be a better. Yeah we get a ridicule. The lady who wrote that a radiohead was Is the most black band. Yeah and She was african american studies person. But going back to kyw's intro about how you can't find any good revolutionary thought or whatever in the in the academy. Oh i'm going back to that. Because i feel like we kind of talked out. You know this chapter It was it was interesting. How he was talking about how there is no real revolution to be headed the academy because the kademi is already co opted by the the system in in white supremacy and these ethnic studies programs are already Kind of appeasement kind of accommodation est and this week on twitter. There was a recent controversy and this is an example of like Twitter this black woman announced that she just got a job as an african american professor at african american history professor and she was all happy and then people pulled up all her old tweet saying Straight black men are the white people of black people straight. Black men live to oppress All black people who are not straight black men and She was thirsting after white. Guys all day and saying like You know all this performative cringe. I and all this stuff and she basically went viral. She had to lock her page and amd block. Everybody and people now working overtime to find out what school she's gonna teach at and People are like you know it. Better not be a black school. We don't want this woman. Teaching are are black. You know black boise now to hate themselves and that are teach black women lying you know to hate back man and she was like seeking out books to talk about you know for her curriculum. She's like yeah can't wait. You know i'm going to get hired. I should i. What should i teach and people were recommending. Her feminist jones book. I looked to in the book club. Because he reminded me of arlington. The sellers room to tweet because reminded me of What's the guy was talking about and another book was hashtag activism and you know the power of hashtag and i'm like oh my god this stuff is going to age like Room temperature yogurt. It's it's all Horrible like wise's person going to Teach and have diversity based on what you read a threat or just the general just hearing story. Just yeah. you know. I think it's going to be The washington university I think he's gonna get the jessica croghan dowman wanting in their favor. She does look definitely black. She doesn't have that clearly suspect. Jessica krog look you know. But i guess it doesn't really matter if the person's faking being black or not they're just as Events jessica craig was probably less problematic in her actual work. Somebody's black people who are definitely without a doubt typically Black but but yeah her she can definitely end up fitting in with george washington university for sure. I'll be honest. The jessica craig thing. I kind of by that. She had some mental illness there like she didn't even try to look black lake or like a at least rachel dollas all like tried to make herself look like you know whatever the only work on fuck out of here he's authentic and just ran it into the ground was nineteen seventies black voice but flirtation. And it's just. I dunno that lady jesse was weird. I wasn't really strange. Had a big brother reality show and just put all those people who get busted house. I would watch that day in day outlet but half of it full of Check black people and half of it for them. It just watch you know. I wanna see jessica cry. You know walk over Jamal hill and that she's not who mentioned spicy popeye's chicken late. Tomorrow is just as trinity as jessica. Cry and her attempts to do outreach to To style like there was trending a tweet journal hill People doing these fake thanksgiving dramatic hill tweets in trying to capture her bed attempt to Sound like a hip and she heard tweets or all sound black version of that steve bosomy strangers with candy tweet. That mean where. he's like. Hello fellow kids. He's clearly not a teenager and he's trying to sound like drill hills like that with Black twitter hello black twitter and she shows up. You know Tweeting about pop. Pop is spicy popeye's chicken it. So bad how bad she tweets that. Somebody tweeted over the weekend with that. Fight where Nate robinson got knocked out. Somebody tweeted countdown to djamil hill Comparing this to popeye spicy chicken like ten minutes later. She tweeted and people put up both side by side with a time stamp and but god bless her. She doesn't quit she's you know. She does not quit then she she totally did exactly what. They predicted ten minutes later and a time stamp and she even use the same picture that the person use it reminds me of Macro did a similar thing where he just predicted someone who fall trump with like. I think it was during the super bowl and he predicted going. Oh it was. It was like a t. mobile app. He predicted that someone would do a tweet. That it was like low. T. mobile like low testosterone. And then somebody posted side by side. And i think his tweet is caption for having the two images side by side was. I am death destroyer of worlds. Espn i mean. I give matt crispin on more credit just because jamila hills so tweets by algorithm or by So wrote that gets not even that hard to purdue are predict particular. Three celebrate thanksgiving tweets was Trending and people were putting all this But the reason i bring around his like to talk about people who are chosen by white people to be the voice of black people back people themselves. don't really rock with her. It shows all the time every time she tweets but she was one of the people. Most mad about Jessica craig i mean. I feel like her jessica. Probably far out of touch with what. The black people feel speaks to them. let's see trying to flip through the chapter seeping thing else's of of interest. That crossed my mind before some of the cartoons and ads like it's hard to Described him in the when reading. So i get why winfield didn't mention it would just kind of break up the flow and everything but An exit guy always chooses really good really good cartoons and and ads and one thing i would love to know is what his process was for doing. Research for this book like for winning was made like an attorney engine putting together a book like this isn't as impressive as what. It must've been like doing it at a time. He was spend the library. Non stop looking at microfiche and up like primary materials in print and finding all types of stuff like all activists shoe boxes full of flyers and and Scrapbooks and stuff like that. I'm very impressed at some of the obscure stuff that he seemed to be able to find just looking at a like in the library. Look at the microphones are looking at the newspaper archives. Right yeah i think that's probably i mean. He spends a lot of time like coating from newspapers to think that lanza reading so that and like the pictures of newspapers and stuff like that. I mean it's kind of like once you get into it like you can look at somebody newspapers so fast When you're sitting there in the archives it's kind of fun a very different experience than being on the internet yet. When i was a kid we used to have to do And yet book some time and do that and there is something that's not quite the same I don't wanna be like. Aw get off my lawn. Or whatever i think. Both sides have their strengths. I'm not just going to say oh. It was better back then. But i think in some ways it was better in some ways is probably worse but i do think one good about that time was because you couldn't super targeted you kind of had to like Manually scan and poor your way through and just had to get a broad idea. What you're looking for and scan everything. I thought you were probably way more likely to stumble on something Accidentally of interest that is harder to do when you're using the search engine. Google search engine Is such a targeted thing that it'll automatically exclude a lot of stuff that you didn't even know you were looking for a also think that if you historian you have to have a general idea of the times in events you have to know real history so with a search engine tool you could just probably just hit keywords. And if the stuff's been digitized it starts popping up you know you want that manually. You really had to know approximately when the article would have been written when the event happened. So you'd be able to find the most relevant article for for your purpose. I think by key words is probably faster. Because you do get to choose those things and you find them really quickly and then as you've you'll find peripheral things and you'll find new keywords assert so i think the processes with different like you're not just reading the whole thing you're specifically lurking looking for various pieces of information and only through finding the pieces. Do you find out that there are other. You know tangential or connecting pieces. That you also need to look into. Yeah if you're doing it. I think if you're diligent. What you said just happens as in you find the targeted things but you notice other connections and then you can search for those things. But i think in this time of Lazy but prolific content production If you're lazy the search engine benching search engine method will really of reward just fast superficial read knows they're allowed these content creators and their. Vox explainer type stuff. You can tell the just scams much of wikipedia articles and slapped us together. You know in twenty four hours before it got during next pitch to to do so. Yeah i think if you are very diligent the new method can actually lead to you being way Deeper than you ever went before but if you're lazy then the new method i think it causes both extremes to become more more extreme like the open research. I think the new a deep as you on. But if you you've been like canada worksheet and like who wh what person did such and such and you're just gonna find. That name is going to move onto the next question i agree. I think we've been when you try to go kind of like deep into the keyword search like you still are you kind of are separated from the context a little bit right like you get everything not necessarily like how it appeared. You know at the time right. But i think when you're looking through newspapers right you have to take in not only like you know the thing that you're looking for specifically the subject but also like what is the context of what is happening at that exact time right like. What are the other things that happened that day. A and if you're looking for like trying to like find you know Anti asian racism. And you know before chinese exclusion act right. You're trying to find you know evidence of these in that sort of thing right you have to kind of look at it in the context of all the other things that were happening at the same time and so i feel like it gives you the broader picture and it may be less specific And maybe that is a detriment. I feel like it. Is you know kind of gives you the context that you lose when you when you do like keyword search type research. i think a great example is There was an episode of lovecraft country. Near the end would they covered Amatil 's killers acquittal and it was a fake cover of chicago defender and it was so full of present. It was like all male all white jury votes to quit and a lot of people on twitter. Relate this is not seeing the correal Newspaper cover like where would they bring a all white all male very present. Test instructional feminism. Jamal hill makes us newspaper. Probably i mean who knows but they have academics on staff. They had africa academics from yale. African american department. And you know. I think that's what comes from that Quick google search quick wikipedia Lazy content generation view of history whereas if they were forced to dig through with with Going to microfiche and delving through the whole newspapers of the era of the era. But then again. Actually i take it back because it's so agenda driven even if they found the real newspaper things they wouldn't have they would have tweeted anyway but somebody actually did find that the original newspaper and does say that line So they actually didn't modify a very much actually said it's just. The emphasis is not the same because the male part isn't really that important in the context and the way that the way that things are highlighted was slightly different context like they just said male. The male wasn't really important. Because all juries were pretty much and are you. Are you sure that from the era know someone gave me an example of article describing the thing but the article was more recent. I saw that somebody found like the actual scan have that paper. They like went like the university. Archive an pulpit. Which i thought was interesting. Because i felt the same thing but then that was like a weird example of they may the highlight different. But they didn't actually make that lined to go. Take a look at that then because i find that strange. Just because we're all male at that time so it would be weird to me to even put that as a as a But out after look at it can never find it. he's let me know. Because i'm just. This is the one that was found by someone here. In the discord. Found in the dischord. Yeah yeah it was posted in the discord in watch group by a kirkland dish. Is you going off of memory you or did you start. Because if that's your memory ma'am really impressed. No search just are all white male. Okay at the jay. And i just i just jumped to the conversation. We were watching the episode of lovecraft country. Or we didn't watch that. But i think we were. Maybe just discussing it episode which five or was it. Three we watch episode five. It was later episode. That had the the headlines episode eight. Yeah yeah yeah. Because i think the last one i saw i couldn't make it to the end of the show ads to episode ten. Actually gen ks jin case in arjun. Kazi was a winner. Brought it to our to our attention and then Put that's the place where somebody found. Okay i think i've found that discussion. Now oh yeah. I know Anything else in the meantime about This chapter or this Or just the book in general to anybody wants to talk about. It is about this chapter that search topic. I think the one thing that we didn't touch on with the way of searching things versus searching things like the library on the film stuff that we you just search for stuff if you don't really have specific any always get the same sources like the guardian dismiss owning. Cnn huffington post fox explainers. You don't actually get by primary sources or like alternative perspectives on. Most things look like wikipedia. So tell you. Muslims sends you a link to something or you go from mike link. Chains can be. It can be like not. It can be very hard to find like rio documents. That aren't just like regurgitation on inc. I'm excited for the next chapter. I very read White two thirds of it and it's about the cpa usa. So i'm i'm excited for that. You gonna join after eating after reading going to join the cpu usa Not pretty short chapter two. So maybe we gaming squeezing Chapter eleven chapter eleven even shorter than a chapter ten. it might be possible to get Two chapters in next week. I can tell you see opening rushing the not that far from the do chapter ten eleven next week. We're not gonna be that far from the end of the book of probably Two more sessions before we finish after that. That sounds pretty good This about chapter ten. Like i got the sense that The cpi usa kinda liked the dsa was kind of like the dsa of our time has of their time. Yeah i don't know anything about. That's that's the history i would like to know More about in general. I hope people who are very versed in socialist history. Hope someone come in come in next week. In fact i might make a post. You know about the chapters topic you know just in case it gets people who don't normally pop into these two Pop in but read over three hours. So i would just opened up the floor to Anybody's final thoughts. One thing that i. I was a parallel that i that came to mind when we talking about the last section that i the effort so in terms of like national nationalists national groups within the united states that are sort of like integrated And as an example in brooklyn there's like the hysteria communities are pretty interesting case where they are super They have like there's a lot of like stuff yourself that goes on there and i don't think that but they have They have like communities. That are very not integrated in terms of like. They have like their own very specific culture. And we're doing things but they also have within their communities. They have their own police. They have their own ambulances. They have their own ever like language on everything They're like completely self governing and they get they get the city to back off all the time and like not enforce restrictions and do things that they want maybe own answer yes they they completely completely act almost as a separate a separate state within the city And they man they are. They're able to do it because they have a super state can deliver their entire communities. Vote to any politician and say like with guaranteed. It's not just like oh we're kind of like group is like we like we all will support this thing so they can. They pull their power in this pretty. It's a pretty interesting dynamic The structure of the society's not very democratic As an interesting example of a completely different Culture with in the larger culture description. You just made me think of the vatican inside rome. Vatican city as like a little country within the With within italy within rome Is that everything. I think so i mean i don't think we have to force it any longer than it has to be. I think actually if anything. I think we've gotten a good a good amount of meat. Midoff meat off the bones at three hours and change. And i think that's fine so yeah Thanks everyone for joining us and for people who were unable to make this time as you will. Fridays eight pm in Discord is the book club and saturday. Eight pm is movie night tomorrow and moving will be the movie. What movies again hanging with the homeboys which is One of my favorites. I haven't seen in a long time. I'm very interested in seeing how it's gonna play with. Today's is but that's going to be a good one for sure and yeah so thanks. Everyone have a good night and take care.

randolph garvey united states phillip randolph federal government Randolph philip randolph gavi africa Garvey un united negro improvement assoc cabinet T. washington afl washington ramdas marcus garvey sharks book club gavi
447- Flag Days: The Red, the Black & the Green

99% Invisible

37:18 min | 3 months ago

447- Flag Days: The Red, the Black & the Green

"This is ninety nine percent invisible. I'm roman mars. Quick heads up. This episode has some offensive language after minneapolis. Police officer derek. Chauvin murdered george floyd last year tens of thousands of people all over the world took to the streets to protest police violence against black people. And if you look at images from these marches you'll probably start to notice a common color scheme lots of red black and green and ninety nine producer. christopher johnson you'll see those colors everywhere. Red black and green picket signs and banners red and green hoodies and hats and red black and green flags. Sometimes it's good to see that we have lacking wreath-laying particularly when this strife in people outraged and angry and they started to come to that realization. That we're not getting anywhere with begging moriuma. Mark has several of these flags in different sizes including a huge one that he likes to fly outside of his house. He says that wherever there protests or demonstrations against threats to black life the red black and green will be there when people are ready for more than what they've been getting ready to challenge the system. You see the rare black flags out and not just a demonstrations. This tri color scheme has been used on t shirts on high top chucks and in works of art that have sold for millions of dollars. The flag was invented to unite black people over the world who were living under racial repression and when it first came into existence the flag post some bold questions about where black people owed their loyalty to the nations where their lives were demeaning threatened or to a new nation one day built entirely for themselves and for hundreds of thousands of black folks. The red black and green symbolized the answer. The flag has been in use since nineteen eighteen. But i'm gonna start a couple of decades before that with the story of a super racist song about flags and the beginning of the twentieth century. Those voidable there was mr see in america and there was this tradition of coon songs. Can i say that what christopher this is writer and historian colin grant. He's talking about an old style of american music. That's named after a racial slur coon songs. Were exactly what they sound like. The lyrics were deeply racist based on gross stereotypes about black life and speech patterns usually sung over ragtime. Pin and nineteen hundred. One of the biggest songs of the genre came out. There was very famous. Coon song called every race has a flag but the coup and it was a song that lampooned black people for not having their own flag. Lampooned them for the idea that there should have their in flag to white composers. Wrote the song. I got somebody to play the sheet music for me. Here's what it sounds like in the lyrics. The head of a black social club gets up to speak and he says he's just come back from a labor day parade where he saw all these different races proudly waving their national flags. Ireland has her harp and shamrock england. Floats lion bold. Even china waves dragon germany and eagle gold and then he comes to the us and what won't yankees do for the old red white and blue seem to drive at the idea that the stars and stripes didn't belong to black people that they need something else to represent them. The song went on to propose a flag for black people. It's crammed with all these racist. Stereotypes every race has a flag was performed by more than one hundred touring vaudeville acts and was part of the circuit for more than three decades. It was huge. Which isn't surprising. Given the era the us wasn't even two generations out of slavery. Jim crow and separate but equal were in full effect lynching and other terrorist violence surged. Black americans were getting the message from all sides including popular music that they weren't respected or safe or really even considered fully american now as gross as the song was the lyrics hinted at something that did resonate for black folks that actually a flag was something that enable people to be welded together. That idea was one which many people understood. And in particular a jamaican-born labor organizer and journalist named marcus garvey in the early nineteen hundreds. Garvey bounced around central and south america. Trying to start some advocacy newspapers fighting for working black people. Having much luck. Garvey wanted more work opportunities and some adventure. He was also curious to see how black people like himself. We're living in other parts of the british empire so in one thousand nine hundred twelve. He said off across the atlantic young. Marcus garvey in his mid twenty s. He went to england's at that. Time for someone in the british colonies. Londoners where you would go to try to establish yourself to say. I have arrived. I'm going to partake of this blended. Imperilled enterprise which the british ruled over the centuries. He's going to go to the hardware punt in london. Garvey landed a gig at that carried stories about black life throughout the diaspora. He also got a pass to the british museum which had a a large library. Garvey began reading ideas. Totally new to him. Ideas that came to be known as pan-africanism pan-africanism is concerned with the unity and liberation of africa than people of african heritage highlight to think of it as a mighty river with many streams and currents hakimzadi a professor of african and blocked asper. History says the source of that river is the trans atlantic. Slave trade slavery forced together. Millions of people from across the african continent addie believes pan-africanism started their more than four hundred years ago. It developed as those people with different languages and cultures began to understand their shared conditions. And then the line to change them by the early twentieth century black intellectuals had done thinking and writing about global africa centered black identity ideas about repatriation ideas about the importance of independent states. Like haiti like ethiopia. Light liberia ideas about clone. Eliza man what needed to be done to full mets ideas about the glories of historic african civilization. So i say this sort of context that gavi and his work develop one. Big part of this development was the way. Garvey thought about africa. As a kid he'd been taught that africans were primitive and backwards with no history to speak of what he'd read in. London told him the opposite was true. Garvey realized that africa could be the center of racial pry for all of black humanity along with this pan. African thought garvey was also heavily influenced by writings about block. Self-sufficiency the call to build a black world that was economically politically and culturally independent from white society. Gory combined these ideas with his newfound afro centrism and a political philosophy started to emerge. It had been just two years since marcus. Garvey had arrived in london. He'd left jamaica hoping to find work and for a chance to see more of the world but what he found in the heart of the british empire. The seat of a massive colonial power was the way he thought to free the entire blackboard. Garvey became convinced that black people in africa and throughout the dass bre share a common identity. They also shared responsibility to advance the race and to protect it and the safest place for them was one built solely by black hands. The idea that you to forge a nation of your own that you couldn't trust the man to look after yourself in mice. When i say the man i mean the imperial powers would not go to further the latest. Like marcus garvey or the black people of whom they ruled and garvey recognized through reading that. Xp he could come to an alternative to the reality in which find themselves. He could change the narrative. Garvey sale about to the caribbean in nineteen fourteen. Those was still several years before he'd make the red black and green flag that he intended to stand for all black humanity but he was already thinking about how to build the kind of nation that such a flag would represent on the ship. Going back from england to jamaica. He said to himself. Where's the black man's army whereas the black man's biltrite if he looked about in his sonum only saw was subjugation and he said to himself he was going to build the army and who's going to establish a new african empire. Garvey put his pan african thinking to work almost as soon as he landed in jamaica. He formed an organization called the u. n. a. the universal negro improvement association. Its primary objective was to establish a universal con fraternity among the race. Here's how garvey described the many years later africa. I read through the neighboring negro boom. It associates is they've come that sixty two one solid putting the four hundred million front of the world for the purpose of cetera in our industrial educational at political the unify. Got off to a so-so-start. Garvey once again found himself strapped for cash so to raise money and build a following. He left jamaica again this time. He headed to harlem. And that's where marcus. Garvey really took off as a race leader coast. The seat of wealth is a seat of promise seat of any person who has some ambition that wants to have a bigger canvas to realize is embiid so he was a young man in his mid to late. Twenty s came with a hope and a prayer with lot too far in the rub together them when garvey arrived in nineteen sixteen. Harlem was going through some major changes of its own. The black population there had been searching for about a dozen years. Folks were coming from other parts of new york city from down. South and la. Garvey from the caribbean. It was the beginning of the so called new negro era or the negro renaissance in art and politics black harlem nights from throughout the diaspora argue furiously. Over what it meant to black garbage jumped headlong into the debate. He'd stand on one of harlem's famous boxes and address a crowd with his nascent pan africanist ideas but not. Everybody was feeling young. Marcus garvey including the era's most famous black intellectual. The premium man premier leader at that time was wkbd boys and his organisation. The nwa soupy at captured. The imagination of black people at the time dubose was ascendant. Wkbd boys felt that full civil rights were the keys to black freedom in a country that was hostile to their survival and peace. He believed in america as a bible nation for black folks. It would take real struggle but there was a path for black people to be whole life on the stars and stripes marcus. Garvey saw things totally differently. He came to believe that the fundamental problem for black people in the west was the west itself. There was no way the us or great britain or any other western power was gonna lead. Black people be truly free talk. God never intended. We are not going to remember. Garvey believe that black people were as he put it a mighty race and the only way for them to realize their full potential and to survive the anti blackness of the west wants to come together and build a separate black world. Bobby did did america. Under god martin a pre covid. Four hundred million. People can do it if you do it up done right. Then you buy the moreton gorby spent in the us. The firmer that physician became in south. He'd witnessed firsthand the struggles of rural black america. Living under jim crow he'd come from jamaican society were class often outweighed race privilege but in the us he noticed that was flipped a dynamic which inspired garvey to center his message on blackness. He believed that actually race should come before class. That you became powerful by uniting together having a powerful voice through sheer numbers therefore we should clear together as black people placed privacy on race. Then something happened. That put the difference between two boys and garvey in sharp relief and gave garvey an opportunity to really articulate the pan african vision that he'd been developing since his days at the british museum. America is called wa. Poverty has a chin thousand and millions. More to follow when woodrow wilson brought america into the fells world war under the idea that they were going to make the world safe for democracy. Garvey was stabbed on his soapbox and say this. All woodrow wilson. But how about macon georgia safer the black man i the. Us enter world war one in april nineteen seventeen that summer. There was large scale racial violence in several cities. Some of the worst was in east. Saint louis a labor dispute turned into an all out assault on the city's black residents whites set fire to black neighborhoods white snipers shot and killed black people in the streets. There were mob. Beatings and lynchings. The suddenness and the share shock of the violence of essentially changed everybody. And the woodrow wilson moose. Going to take america into the war because america's this great savior without recognizing that certain many the transgressions that were going to be challenged in europe also existed on oil. Sometimes guard would respond to racist violence with calls for revenge or armed self defense. The boys and aa c p stood firmly against this approach. The two men also disagreed on whether or not black men should enlist to fight in europe given the racial climate in the us so whereas deploys said we must forget differences between ourselves black and the white man who has put us shoulder to the wheel and fight the common enemy covid. Send the very opposite. Governor's saying no do not go off and fight the white man's war for him because come the end the wall things revert to the way that they've been before and that's exactly what happened as those just came back and some of them were even lynched in their uniforms. The many people who saw the governor had been right the idea that were one would make things better for black. People didn't pan out in fact as the war ended cities and towns across a us exploded in an unprecedented wave of anti-black violence. It had been fifty years since black. Americans were declared full citizens of the us by people had invested in the democratic process. And now they've gone overseas and fought and died under the stars and stripes and yet the country's deadly racial caste system stayed firmly in place. Just as marcus. Garvey had predicted may seem in the eyes of many black people. Profit sill someone who could see into the future but also someone who is. Phyllis i mean he was fearless and that was very empowering people wanted to align themselves with the saw that he was a win had been adding up events in cities like saint. Louis he saw what was happening to. Black soldiers and civilians alike. If the question was to whom do black people owed their loyalty. Guards answer was clear black people. Oh their loyalty. I two other black people. He recognized that in his mind. Anyway that black africans in exile in america and there was gonna be no place for them. There was no future for them in america. But marcus garvey had a plan. They had to get out and they had to establish their own and that pace was going to be africa. Garvey believed that every single black person on the planet was an african and that the continent was their birthright. He said africa should be free of colonial rule. So that black people themselves can develop their own societies there under the burden on the labeling. We were. We were both like rabbit. Than every week we amend. We have happened appealing. And so gavi with the coaling for africa for the africans. Those home of those ruled by all over the world of kind of canadian of america american of england germany. But do you think it unreasonably by garvey had long understood that he needed cohesion in order to achieve his dream of an independent blog. World the campaign for a homeland would fail. If black people didn't see themselves as a single global race how going to cleave those people of that race together what can you do to rematch in a society. Where whiteness is not a thing that defines you it. Opposition to witness. You are just black. You are just your own people. Ironically part of the answer came from white people. garvey drew on what he'd seen years earlier in london. He was inspired by how the british do symbols to flex their strength and to unite people across their vast empire. He stole the great buildings of kyle. He saw this great collins with his admirals on top of them. So look away. The celebrated their history through symbols of conquest through symbols of authority. I think he read understood the power of symbols to and live and people to come to this notion that part of something greater than yourself. Garvey had taken note of all the trappings of nationhood his very influenced by the idea. That's the show of power came through things like the idea of plotting yourself under a lack of saying that you belong to a group he recognized. Does what imperial. Pows did marcus. Garvey filtered all of that inspiration. Through his black nationalist prism and out came a flag a banner that would stand for the entire black world. Only look tell on on duck docket green. Garvey design the pan. African flag a rectangle with three horizontal bars. Read on top then block and green at the bottom according to the un. I a the red stands for the blood spilled in the fight to protect and defend africa. Green represents africa. It's lushness motherland. At garvey i saw as their birthright and black stands for the people of the continent and the diaspora gorving introduced the pan african banner in nineteen eighteen and it quickly became the symbol of his rapidly growing international movement and that's excess came partly from the sheer potency of garvey's message which he spread throughout the americas during these exhausting speaking tours. Plus the newspaper circulated. Garvey is all over the world and then there was garvey's single biggest recruiting tool the is commercial and passenger steamships called the black star line. Gardy wanted a fleet that would sail between ports north and south. America the caribbean and africa. The black star line would be one hundred percent. Black owned and operated in a world where public transportation was segregated and black people were routinely limited to the lowest classes of travel. The black star line promised comfort. Respect safety and speed to it's black passengers. Five thousand black folks showed up to watch the first black star line ship. Leave it's east. Harlem port in nineteen nineteen according to at least one observer. The crowd was delirious with excitement. The black star line never got is big as garvey had envisioned but inspired pride and hope and black people around the world ethics. There was even a song about the ship's recorded while they were still active in each. And every one of those black star line vessels hoisted the red black and green colors from its masts when those ships came into harbor with you and flex flapping there was the most extraordinaire excitement because that was the manifestation of something that they thought to be impossible so the flax on board the ships acted to promote the growth and the huge ambition. And reach of marcus. Garvey and the universal nigger improvement association. But for the flags and the ships there will be no mass movement. They need those symbols in order for the movement to grow without those flax there would be no baucus coffee in our memory. Is i call them. The standard bearer of success on the duress was blessed. do more with less moriuma. Kamau is the official historian of the. Usaa make sure your so called him out runner in the outdoor in out of this world their rock from the sun by far the concern by the end of the decade garvey's movement was massive. Two million people had joined the i it would eventually become the largest organization and black history and its members. Proudly flew the pan african banner. You see a lotta houses with like replays. Outside as well as mass meetings and local cities all around the globe they have rain. Blackened rian flakes whenever they had meetings of light green buttons as well on the lapel and even some ministers would have their robes with red black and green when they were preaching the gospel lagaras in nineteen twenty. The held its convention in new york. City it was a sprawling month-long affair attended by tens of thousands of people and they're the usaa officially declared red black and green the colors of the negro race then those colors were put on spectacular display when the un. I held a massive raid. Meant to conquer a state procession. The flag was part of this medley of symbols that garvey used project to the world black unity strength and greatness primarily marcus. Garvey was a showman and nineteen twenty. Marcus gov put on the greatest show on earth and he had the uniform Authority his vittore military regalia with his by cornered helmet and his plumed helmet no huge quantities of one hundred and more on the streets walking with him there were uniform. God's with a sabres rattling there were placards sang our time has come down with lynching there were bans. playing there was a spirit of combat for it. Was this thing you wanted to be a part of. And it was a street performance that led to the most magnificent statement of black. But that never be but marcus. Garvey fire federal. Investigators have been after garvey since he first came to the us and at the same time w. abd boys and other black leaders were also coming for garvey. They said his talk of an african empire was foolish. They called his business dealings shady and said that they were especially dangerous to the working class. Black people who invested in the other saw the unama's pomp and military regalia as clownish and embarrassing to the race. A campaign called. Garvey must go pressured law enforcement to redouble their investigation of the ira. Garvey was eventually locked up for almost three years for mail fraud in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven. He was deported to jamaica. You and i a shrank severely after that. Especially in the united states in. Nineteen forty marcus. Garvey died in london. He was fifty two years old. Show me the race or the nation without a flag. Marcus garvey once said in a speech. And i will show you a race of people without any pride in the same address. Marcus garvey invoked that minstrel tune from one thousand nine hundred in song and mimicry. They have said every race has a flag but the coon but as far as garvey was concerned he'd silenced any notion of a flagless race with the red black and green banner. That was flying all over the black world about the green around me for the new lie pal. Right can lead to million hyphen. It's been more than eighty years. Since marcus garvey passed but the i still exists and members like moriyama komo still salute its century old banner. Oh yeah yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Always you to flag up in the house. Has you know what. I'm going to meetings that. They big playing on a train or car when a ride speak. Just a folks actually. What's that what country is this but the red black and green has grown way beyond the usaa and the decades after garvey's death. Several african countries incorporated the pan african colors into their own national flags as they gained independence in the us. The red black and green colors were prominent during the black power movement and the black consciousness renaissance in the nineteen sixties and seventies starting in the late eighties. The tri colours were a big part of hip hop fashion in a way the pan. African flag has done exactly what garvey had hoped he made this enduring symbol that transcends any one organization or country or even hemisphere he created a single flag that's recognized all over the world as the symbol of blackness. Some of those like saying the community who flat they know it makes them feel good. They may not understand is history is Full power but they. You know representative. Give us the people. Okay so i wanna say one last thing about the pan african flag. I'm a black man. I was born in the us. As far. Back as i know my family is from this country they helped build it. My mom worked for the dc government. My dad is a war vet and so are a bunch of uncles. My grandfather is buried at arlington national cemetery. But even with all this family history for me. There's also the experience of being black in america which can make safety and belonging feel tenuous standing under the stars and stripes is at best an uneasy insecure thing because the flag stands for lots of things including imperialism and white supremacy. So for me. It's not a place where i feel at home whenever i find myself in neighborhoods where. Us flags are displayed. Unless it's a super black part of town. I get pretty uncomfortable. I don't feel safe. It's very different with the red black and green. If i see someone flying that flag outside of their home or in their business. I may have no idea what that person believes. We may not even like each other but that flag the decision to fly that flag. It feels like someone's telling me in a place that's safe for black people and you know. I think that was a big part. What governor wanted to say with the red black and green black folks in a world that is constantly threatening you come together under this flag and feel safe. We talk about another interesting flag from our history. The juneteenth flack after this. I'm sure you like me. Spend a lot of your time looking at websites getting your news. Entertainment even groceries days all online. So when sites don't work like crash or let's face it they just look it ruins your experience. Luckily squares basis everything you need to create a beautiful and modern website. I e start with design template. And then you use easy drag and drop tools to make it your own. And you customize the look and feel settings of products with just a few clicks. all's grass-based sites are optimized for mobile so everything automatically adjusts to look great on any device. And you get twenty. Four seven customer support go to squarespace dot com slash invisible for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch use offer code invisible to save ten percent of your first purchase of a website or domain nine percent visible is brought to you by progressive. 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And that's because it's curated like a boutique store but with the simplicity of online shopping and designers focus on pieces that are well-crafted in made from quality materials. I've been raving about my article furniture for years. And it's time you took the plunge check out all article has to offer and you'll notice their fair prices. That's because unlike traditional retail article cuts out the middleman and sells directly to you. Article is offering our listeners. Fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more article dot com slash nine nine in the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article dot com slash nine to get fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more flag. Day may be over but there's another big day coming up later this week that involves its own flag. Juneteenth which is a portmanteau of june and nineteenth juneteenth has other names to including freedom day or liberation day but by whatever title. The day is really important. Commemorates the emancipation of slaves in the united states specifically the date when the end of slavery was enforced by the union army in galveston texas on nineteenth eighteen. Sixty five the date has been celebrated in many places for over a century and it seems to be on its way to becoming a national holiday and as part of this push for recognition the founder of the national juneteenth celebration foundation. Ben haith designed a juneteenth flag in nineteen ninety up. It was then revised in two thousand by lisa gene graph before it was officially flown. This time of year. People ask me about the juneteenth flag all the time more and more every year because it's a great flag. It's really lovely leg. The american flag the juneteenth flag is red white and blue which is a more striking choice to me. Since i learned from christopher's reporting in this episode about the pan african red black green flak juneteenth flag features a central white star referencing. The lone star state were the last of the country's enslaved population finally learned of their freedom in eighteen. Sixty five around. That is another twelve pointed white star outline and together they symbolize a star of texas or staying with new freedom throughout the land over a new horizon. That horizon consists of a red arch meeting the blue sky above to quote the creators of the flag. The red white and blue colors communicate that the americans slaves and their descendants or all americans. Sometimes the flag is shown with a juneteenth date. June nineteenth eighteen sixty five written across the fly end. Frankly this is not my favorite edition but the basic flag is tough towards good flag as is the red black and green so if you fly them together get ready to talk about all the interesting history that we discuss in this show with the people who pass mine ninety nine percent invisible was produced this week by christopher. Johnson edited by amit fitzgerald music. Director of sound sean. Rio mixed by amita contra delaney hall is the executive producer. Kolstad is the digital director. Throws a team includes joe rosenberg. Vivian lay chris brubeck katie. Mingle washing dawn sophia class. Score and me roman mars. We are part of the stitcher sirius. Xm podcast family now. Headquartered six blocks north in the pandora building in beautiful uptown oakland california. You can find the shown tour discussed about the show on facebook. You can see me out. Roman mars and the show at nine guy org ron instagram and read it to you can find other shows. I love from stitcher as well as every episode of this program at nine. P i dot org Still nowhere from the top brass so hurry on S s t t t t. I t t t t ccc's e h h h h e r. Do do do do do better. Stop there and get into some shaky. Legal territory doo doo. Doo doo doo doo. S s is. I r. i. u. s. execs experts. M m m. M doo doo. Doo doo doo doo. We can podcast one.

Garvey garvey united states Marcus garvey africa marcus jamaica Chauvin george floyd woodrow wilson england colin grant white society british museum universal negro improvement as caribbean london christopher johnson jamaican society
Arturo Alfonso Schomburg

Stuff You Missed in History Class

43:53 min | 2 months ago

Arturo Alfonso Schomburg

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Saving national annual average auto insurance savings by new customers surveyed in twenty nineteen. Potential savings will vary discounts. Mary are not available in all states and situations. Welcome to stuff. You missed in history class. A production of iheartradio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm tracy wilson and i'm holly fry over the last eight years and working on this. Show the schaumburg centre for research in black culture in harlem. New york has come up in a lot of my work. Research into the tulsa massacre reference documents in the schaumburg collections. Research into red summer included. One of the centers online exhibitions when i researched shirley chisholm. That referenced an interview in the shamburg centers oral history tape collection a while back. We interview john. King junior about the preliminary emancipation proclamation. He took that document on a seven city tour that started at the schaumburg centre. So i've personally used the schaumburg centers online resources and then the center is also just all over the footnotes and the papers that i have read for this show. I just put the word shamburg into the folder. Where i have a ton of stuff save and it was like. Here's thirty five documents. That i'll have the word schaumburg in them somewhere so honestly i'm really embarrassed that it has taken me this long to wonder. Wait who is shamburg. And that happened. Thanks to stumbling. Across the name arturo alfonso schaumburg in another context and then wondering is that the same person that the schaumburg center is named. After it was the same person he was an afro puerto rican activist and collector and jamaican american historian and journalist. joel. Augustus rogers nicknamed him. The sherlock holmes of negro history having researched his life and work. now. I'm just really annoyed that his name was not immediately familiar to me. The very first time i ever heard of the schaumburg center. He is far less well known than a lot of his contemporaries from the harlem renaissance are today. So we're going to try to rectify that a little bit with this episode arturo. Alfonso schaumburg was born on january twenty fourth eighteen. Seventy four in. What's now the entire. Say neighborhood of san juan puerto rico. His mother was maria josefa. A freeborn woman from saint croix who was a midwife and a laundries. His father is often cited as carlos. Frederico schaumburg who was born in puerto rico and had german ancestry are tourist. Parents were not married And it doesn't seem that he ever met or was legally acknowledged by his father are true also had a younger sister named dolores. At the time puerto rico was a spanish colony and although there were schools there was no free public education system accessible to everyone yet and most of the schools that did exist charged tuition. It's possible that schaumburg spent some time at one of these schools. Although the records that could have confirmed that were destroyed when the united states invaded puerto rico in eighteen ninety eight. It seems that most of schoenberg's education was more informal so things like clubs and study groups and self study at libraries but he described one of the experiences that had a particular impact on him as happening in a fifth grade classroom. They did not learn about any black figures when studying history and he asked the teacher if black people had a history and she said no so. He decided that one day he would prove her wrong. At one point schanberg's mother returned to sank roy so he spent some time there while growing up as well but a lot of is more formative. Experiences took place in puerto rico. Puerto rican journalist. Jose julio in costa was one of hamburg's mentors and had a huge influence on him. A costa had been part of the abolition movement before the spanish assembly abolished slavery in puerto rico in eighteen. Seventy three that was just the year before shamburg was born. Another big influence was salvador. Brow like schaumburg brow was an autodidact and in spite of being self taught he went on to be. Puerto rico's official historian browse work in history also included the contributions of black people when many other histories did not shamburg eventually became an apprentice. At a print shop in san juan and at the age of seventeen he moved to new york city. There aren't really any details. Documented anywhere of what led him to make this decision and especially to go apparently by himself. He arrived there on april seventeenth 1891 carrying some letters of introduction. These included one from puerto rican nationalist. Jose gonzales font who was his boss at the print shop and from talbot gyros or cigar. Workers in puerto rico. He lived in new york for most of the rest of his life. After this moving from manhattan to harlem and then to brooklyn when schaumburg arrived in new york the puerto rican immigrant community in the united states was quite small and the idea of a puerto rican. Racial or ethnic identity had not really evolved yet. That started happening more in the nineteen thirties. After more people started moving from the island to the continental. Us but the cuban immigrant community was larger particularly in tampa florida and in new york city. People had moved from cuba to the united states. At this point for a number of reasons one was the ten years war which had spanned from eighteen. Sixty eight to eighteen. Seventy eight like puerto rico. Cuba was a spanish colony and the ten years. War was an uprising. That's generally marked. As the beginning of the cuban independence movement people fled this violence and instability. Or they were exiled because of their involvement tariffs also made it a lot more profitable for companies to import tobacco to the united states rather than importing finished cigars from cuba so cigar makers built factories and florida and new york and then they hired cigar makers from cuba to work at them. When schaumburg arrived in new york the first community he found was among cuban credit was in manhattan. He described his own identity as f- boring kenya which was a cuban term for black puerto ricans and many of the ghettos were politically very active continuing to advocate for cuban independence and providing money and supplies to support a potential armed uprising against spanish colonial. Rule many cuban activists also extended their work to include puerto rico since cuba and puerto. Rico were spain's two remaining colonies in the caribbean some of the first connections schaumburg made in new york. Where with afro cuban activists rafael sarah and with puerto rican floor barroga and both of them were deeply involved in the independence movements. For spain's caribbean colonies. He also became a friend and collaborator. With cuban revolutionary. Jose marti along with other activists shamburg and cetera co founded last dose and. Tia's or the two islands on april third. Eighteen ninety two. This organization contributed money medicine and weapons to independence fighters on both islands. Schaumburg served as the organization's secretary. He also traveled to new orleans which was another locus of cuban independence activity in eighteen ninety two and joined the puerto rican section of the cuban revolutionary party in addition to his work and the independence movement schaumburg also taught spanish while taking night classes at a high school in studying english. He joined a predominantly spanish-speaking masonic lodge called l. soul de cuba number thirty eight in eighteen. Ninety two this lodge was affiliated with the prince hall masons which was established as a branch of freemasonry for black americans in seventeen eighty four shamburg had become a leader in this lodge by one thousand nine hundred ten and then he also worked at a variety of different jobs including being an elevator operator. Abell bellhop and a messenger on june thirtieth eighteen ninety-five shamburg married elizabeth hatcher. Who was known as bessie and she was a black woman from virginia. They would go on to have three. Children gomez are terrell sponsor junior. And kingsley gutty anex. Elizabeth died in one thousand nine hundred. At which point their children went to live with her family in virginia an armed uprising started in cuba in eighteen ninety five and in eighteen ninety seven amid active fighting in cuba spain applied the rights of spanish citizenship to both cuba and puerto rico including giving men over the age of twenty five the right to vote and then on november twenty fifth of that year spain also gave puerto rico the right to self-government with the first elections under that new system held in march of eighteen ninety eight. The ongoing conflict between cuba and spain was also sparking tensions between spain and the united states. Spain's efforts to put down. The cuban uprising were widely covered and sometimes sensationalized in the us press demands for the us to intercede in cuba grew after the uss main exploded in havana harbor on february fifteenth eighteen ninety eight by april spain in the us where it wore in this conflict is often called the spanish american more but since the us was entering an ongoing conflict between spain and cuba. It is also called the spanish. Cuban american war yes occasionally. People will also include the philippines in that since the philippines was involved with all of this and had its own outside the scope of this podcast stuff happening so this war formally ended with the treaty of paris on december tenth. Eighteen ninety eight and under the terms of this treaty. Cuba became independent while spain. Ceded puerto rico guam and the philippines to the united states. That means that. Puerto rico's time as an autonomous island had really been pretty short lived. Obviously this is the absolute thinnest of overviews of all of this but the end result was that the independence movement that shamburg had been so involved with in the united states mostly came to an end. Cuba had become independent. Although it was still occupied by us troops and many but certainly not all of the puerto rican community had started to focus more on cooperation with the us rather than independence and division started to really grow within that part of the movement the last meeting of the puerto rican section of the cuban revolutionary party was held on august second eighteen ninety eight and at that meeting its members voted to dissolve it. Las dos santos dissolved as well and some of the people involved with these and other organizations. Return to the caribbean. Some like jose martinez had already returned and had been killed in the uprising but others remained in the us and shifted their attention toward socialism labor rights or other social and political issues. Schaumburg shifted his attention. Some as well and we will get to that after a sponsor break. Thanks to our sponsor church late pictures presenting the acclaimed music documentary summer of soul in his award. Winning directorial debut quest love from the roots brings the nearly forgotten nineteen sixty nine harlem cultural festival to music fans today. Summer of soul is now playing in theaters and on hulu. Thanks to our sponsor searchlight pictures presenting the acclaimed music documentary summer of soul with never before seen footage director quests love brings the nearly forgotten nineteen sixty nine harlem cultural festival to music fans. Today some are soul is now playing in theaters and on hulu. After the end of the spanish. Cuban american war altero. Alfonso shamburg turned more of his attention to looking for works by black writers artists and historical figures from all over the world and collecting and documenting. That work this really wasn't new for him. He had studied and worked with numerous collectors and bibliophiles many of whom were mostly self taught like he was and they were all collecting and documenting books and articles and artwork and other works that were related to their own lives and communities schaumburg had a really good memory and he had a knack for seeking out information and he put that to use trying to build a collection that would demonstrate the achievements of black people. All over the world at this point. This was not something that he could turn into a paying job. Though in one thousand nine hundred one he got a position as a clerk at a law office and he told people that he was studying for the bar but because of his lack of formal education or at least the lack of any documentation of one he was denied from taking it on march seventeenth. Nineteen o two. He got married again this time. To elizabeth moreau taylor a black woman from north carolina. They went on to have two children. Reginald stanfield and nathaniel jose in nineteen o. Five shamburg made a trip back to puerto rico and also visited the dominican republic and in one thousand nine hundred six. He was hired at bankers trust company and he would work there for more than twenty years. He started out as a messenger and worked his way up to being a supervisor of the caribbean and latin american male section especially at the start of his career there. This job really didn't pay him very much but it did give him enough money to buy books and documents and artwork for his collection. He also did some of his writing because he wrote a lot. Which you're going to talk more about in a bit heated. Some of his writing in his collecting on on company time sometimes really to the annoyance of his own supervisor. Rec- has the letters that he's written two friends. That kinda read like man. My boss will not get off my case. Because i am trying to track down this book right now by the early nineteen teens. Shamburg was becoming widely known in new york for that growing collection and his research into black history in nineteen eleven. He co founded the negro society for historical research with journalist and pan africanist. John edward bruce. Also known as bruce grit bruce served as president and schaumburg served as secretary and treasurer. Like schaumburg bruce was an autodidact. He had been enslaved from birth in eighteen fifty six and had largely educated himself after the. Us civil war according to its charter. The negro society for historical research was established quote to show that the negro race has a history which anti dates. That of the proud anglo saxon race. Other david fulton was formerly tapped to be the society's librarian shamburg ultimately took on a lot of that work over the course of the society's existence schaumburg collected about three hundred volumes for its library and when the society eventually disbanded schaumburg folded those into his own collection which was housed in his home but was something that he made available for other people to use in july of nineteen. Thirteen schaumburg delivered a paper to the teacher. Summer class at shaney institute in pennsylvania. That's now cheney university and is recognized as the oldest historically black college or university in the united states this address was titled racial integrity a plea for the establishment of a chair of negro history in our schools and colleges etc. It called for universities to have chairs of black history just like any other subject in to adopt standards that included quote the practical history of the negro race from the dawn of civilization. To the present time he went on in this address that walk through the contributions of various black writers and thinkers who were largely omitted from history texts before continuing quote. We need in the coming dawn. The man who will give us the background for our future. It matters not whether he comes from the cloisters of the university or from the rank and file of the fields. We need the historian and philosopher to give us with trenchant pen. The story of our forefathers and let our soul and body with phosphorescent light brighten the chasm that separates us schaumburg. Saw all this knowledge about black history as something that could uplift people of african descent all over the world and his other work touched on that idea as well toward the end of world war two he had some involvement in marcus. Garvey's united negro improvement association and african communities league. Although he was never formally a member his work with garvey included assisting him with historical research and doing translations between english and spanish in nineteen. Fourteen john wesley cromwell and john edward. Bruce recommended schaumburg for membership in the american negro academy. The american negro academy was established in eighteen ninety seven by john wesley. Cromwell and its founding members included w. e. d. boys and paul laurence dunbar. Its purpose was to produce and promote academic scholarship. By and for black people shamburg became its president in nineteen twenty serving in that role until the academy was disbanded in nineteen twenty eight schaumburg leadership of the american negro academy was criticized by some of its members. The organization already seemed to be starting to wane when he became its president but his light complexion and has puerto rican. Upbringing led some people to question whether he was black enough to be there. John edward bruce had recommended him for membership but when it came to his presidency he described shamburg as a quote half breed. Who did not quote. Think black shamburg made a point to remind the rest of the academy that there were black people all over the world not just in the united states and that many were facing similar racism and oppression to what they experienced in the us but that really just fed into perceptions that his attentions and his loyalties were to the hispanic world and not to the black community which really was almost the opposite of the point that he was trying to make. It didn't help. That shamburg had probably over committed himself by agreeing. To become the academy's president he had become the master of his masonic lodge which had been renamed as prince hall lodge in nineteen fourteen. This name change reflected a demographic. Shift the spanish. Speaking membership of el sol to cuba had declined in the lodge had boosted. Its numbers by recruiting more english. Speaking black members shamburg had personally translated the largest spanish-language records and documents into english. So that they would still be accessible to its members. He had also become grand secretary of the new york state. Grand lodge of the prince hall masons so between this the academy his day job in his collecting which will remind you. He also made his home publicly available. He had a whole lot on his plate and also he had gotten married for the third time in nineteen fourteen after the death of his second wife. His third wife was elizabeth green and they went on to have three children together fernando alfonso dolores maria and carlos placebo and yes. Each of the three women he married was named elizabeth in nineteen eighteen. The schoenberg's moved to a house on what some people would call cosco go street. That streets name is apparently a matter of much debate. Yes i watched. I watched the whole video of new yorkers disagreeing on how to say the name of it but in any case it is in brooklyn and that became part home and part private library just in terms of people that we've talked about on the show before the library included frederick douglass as newspapers assigned copy of phyllis wheatley poems along with numerous volumes of her work. Benjamin bannock irs almanacs. Paul cuffy's journals letters by tucson louisville chairman playbills and posters from. Ira frederick aldridge's stage performances and an eighteen three edition of ignatius sanchez letters. I really feel like if there is a figure from black history. We know about today. He had their work in his collection. Sure seems like it. Yeah they're schaumburg. Had bought some of this work himself while traveling for his work with the freemasons or through book buyers located in new york although he did make a few international trips during his lifetime. It wasn't really something. He could do very often on his salary. So he also asked the writers and activists. He knew to keep an eye out for particular fines when they were traveling. Internationally this included finding spanish-language work by about black people in spain and in spain's former colonial territory and the americas as we mentioned earlier shamburg kept this private collection not just for his own use but as a resource for others. His private library became both a research collection and a gathering place during the harlem renaissance. And we're gonna get into that after. We have a little sponsor break. This teen minutes could save you. Fifteen percents or more. Is that shakespeare. it's gyco i. Yeah that's shakespeare from one of his unpublished works which be not for awakening may give the berries for fifteen minutes. Could save you fifteen percent toll more. No it's from geico. Because they help save people money. Well i hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare geico fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more geico knows. There are many reasons why you ride from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind that gyco always has your back with twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer service but pamela had one reason in particular. My skin is extremely verse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling of leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers in the biking community. It's been life changing geigo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. The harlem renaissance was a cultural and artistic flourishing that was centered around harlem new york in the nineteen twenties and thirties. It's also known as the new negro movement or the new negro renaissance. And in the words of biographer ellinora giverny sunette shamburg was the documentary of the movement gathering the work of the movements poets and novelists and musicians and visual artists and others and adding them into his collection and although schaumburg himself was no longer living in harlem. The library served as a resource for the people who are creating all of that. Work people like langston hughes. Gwendolyn bennett and eric walraven and zora neale hurston all consultant him in his collection and he did. Research work for writer and poet. Claude mckay schoenberg also contributed an essay to allen locks anthology the new negro interpretation which is considered one of the seminal texts of the harlem renaissance. This essay was titled the negro digs up his past and it was first published in survey graphic magazine. This schaumburg most widely available and widely known piece of writing today and it became a foundational text for the discipline of black studies. It begins quote. The american negro must remake his past in order to make his future before going on to say quote for him. a group. Tradition must supply compensation for persecution pride of race the antidote for prejudice history must restore what slavery took away for. It is the social damage of slavery that the present generations must repair and offset schaumburg also outlined three outstanding conclusions that had come from extensive study of black history quote. I that the negro has been throughout the centuries of controversy. An active collaborator and often a pioneer in the struggle. For his own freedom and advancement. This is true to a degree. Which makes it the more surprising that it has not been recognized earlier. Second that by virtue of their being regarded as something exceptional even by friends and well wishers. Negroes of attainment and genius have been unfairly disassociated from the group and group credit lost accordingly. Third that the remote racial origins of the negro far from being with the race in the world have been given to understand. Offer a record of credible group achievement when scientifically viewed and more important. Still that they are a vital general interest because of their bearing upon the beginnings and early development of human culture. The year after the essay was published. Schaumburg sold his collection to the new york public library. For ten thousand dollars. This was funded by the carnegie corporation and brokered by the national urban league at the time of the sale schanberg's collection was described as a trans national archive of black culture and it contained books poems sheet music photographs newspapers and other periodicals written in multiple languages especially english and spanish. It totalled roughly five thousand items. Many of them quite rare. The collections first home was at the one hundred thirty fifth street branch of the new york public library in harlem and it was known as the arthur shamburg collection of negro literature and art. Schaumburg has started to go by the name. Arthur sometime after the end of his involvement with the puerto rican independence movement and over time he'd gone from arthur shamburg to aa schaumburg before circling. Back around to arturo towards the end of his life shamburg continued to acquire more items and donate them to the new york public library. After the sale of the collection he also worked with james weldon johnson and a women's group known as the james weldon johnson library guild to build out a collection of children's books written four and about black children but schaumburg acknowledged that in many cases. These books just did not exist yet. And he saw the role of children's librarians as including working toward getting books. Like that into prints. Schaumburg used some of the money from the sale of his collection to go to europe and their scoured european libraries especially in spain to trace the history of african people in europe and the caribbean. This included visiting the archive odessa's india's in spain and he hoped to track down previously unknown black writers and historical figures in the spanish speaking world. So he poured through archives making note of people described in spanish words. that meant morrish or black. He also made a point. To view the work of two black spanish painters in person. Wanda and sebastian gomez both of whom had been enslaved for most of their lives on his return to the united states. He wrote a of essays about his research experiences in spain on january first of nineteen thirty shamburg retired. From the bankers. trust company. He'd been experiencing headaches and nosebleeds and that had contributed to his decision to retire but he didn't stop working. Charles s johnson president of fisk university in tennessee asked him to help build fix collection of black history and literature. Fisk is a historically black private university in nashville tennessee and shabbir was there for about a year from nineteen thirty one to nineteen thirty. Two schoenberg's work at fisk was largely funded through the carnegie corporation and the julius rosenwasser fund in nineteen thirty-one fisk librarian louis shores noted that schaumburg had added four thousand five hundred twenty four of the four thousand six hundred thirty volumes to the fisk collection. This hit involved purchases of individual volumes and already established collections guests so almost the entire initial collection at the fiscal library was through shamburg research and work. There have also been some questions about his work during this period though one was about what was expected of him as the curator of this collection. It seems like he hopes to travel and personally acquire more books for the collection but the university was more expecting him to be onsite. Most of the time the other had to do with how he was appraising books to potentially be added into this collection and this leader issue is a little bit complicated. Although schaumburg was not an appraiser he had a lot of experience in buying books. The biggest reason he had been able to get that experience was that book. Dealers didn't see books by black authors is valuable so he was able to afford to buy lots of rare works by black writers on a pretty modest salary when schaumburg said that a collection being as part of an estate wasn't worthy of the fisk library the collectors widow accused him of misrepresenting the collections value regardless schaumburg played a huge and important role of establishing the collection and fisk sometime around nineteen. Thirty shamburg also started working on a cookbook. Which a favorite topic of the show. He didn't ever finish or publish. This work though. Possibly because what he conceived in his mind was really an enormous undertaking. According to his notes it would not just be recipes. It would be an international history of black cooking with biographies of notable people and black folk traditions related to food along with things like love charms and quote signs and superstitions and cookery that is an enormous scope for a book and then that was hampered by a lack of primary sources. A lot of the cookbooks that were written and known about at that point had been written by white people. And the very few cookbooks by black people that were known of were really rare and very hard to find copies of. There's also that problem with cookbooks. Which is that they get used. Yeah don't tend to last to the way. A book in a library would In nineteen thirty two schaumburg traveled cuba where he reestablished his connections to afro-cuban leaders and activists and rekindled his sense of latino identity. He also search through archives for work by afro cuban writers and on his return he published my trip to cuba in quest for negro books also in nineteen thirty. Two shamburg returned to the new york public library and this drew some more controversy w. e. b. do boys launched a campaign against it since schaumburg appointment as curator for the collection that was named for him was effectively. Going to demote catherine allen latimer. Who was the new york. Public libraries first black librarian do boys. His supporters said that this was not about schaumburg as a person but that it undermined an ongoing effort to get more black people on staff at new york public libraries and then that circles back around to the idea that although two boys used and respected schanberg's collection he did not really see shamburg as authentically. Black we've been focused mainly on schoenberg's acquisition of written texts but he also thought that visual art was critically important to black history. In the black experience he curated shows by black artists and in nineteen thirty four. He tried to raise money to buy a bust of fellow which he believed to be. Modelled on ira frederick aldridge. This was a challenge. The united states was just getting out of the great depression but ultimately attorney and civil rights activists arthur spring on donated enough money to bridge the gap in funds. The statue was dedicated on january thirtieth nineteen thirty six. This led to an unfortunate dispute with aldridge's daughter amanda though she had written a biography of her father and had asked shamburg to help get it published and it really seems like schaumburg was just overly optimistic about that project and how quickly it might happen. Two years passed before. Amanda asked for the manuscript to be returned and when she did. She accused him of using it to suit his own ends. This happened shortly. Before the end of schoenberg's life he died on june eighth nineteen thirty eight. He had become seriously ill. After having an infected tooth extracted he was sixty four when he died. The schaumburg collection had faced difficulties with resources and funding even before schanberg's death and that continued afterward by the nineteen sixties. Some of the materials in the collection were falling into disrepair in part because the library didn't have climate controlled place to store them but today the schaumburg center is regarded as one of the world's foremost research libraries focused specifically on black culture. It's a library. A research and cultural space in nineteen ninety-one. It was expanded to include exhibition galleries in the langston hughes auditorium. In two thousand fifteen. The library was awarded the national medal for museum and library service. And it was named a national historic landmark in two thousand seventeen in addition to historians and academics who use its collections for research it has also inspired poets writers playwrights filmmakers and visual artists according to a two thousand fifteen paper by howard dodson denzel washington us the center film collection to study characters and prepare himself for different roles in that paper is says he would basically disguise himself and go to the film collection as for shamburg himself. He was included in biographical collections of notable black figures from the nineteen teens through the nineteen thirties. But after that point he mostly fell out of you for decades. The first full length biography of him was arthur. Alfonso shamburg black bibliophile and collector which came out in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. Another book dice blackness. The life and times of arterial. Alfonso schaumburg by vanessa valdez came out in two thousand seventeen. He was also honored with a postage stamp as part of the united states. Postal services voices of the harlem renaissance series. Just came out in two thousand twenty. There has been a surge of academic work about him very recently. Though in two thousand twenty the journal small acts published a special section that included multiple articles on schoenberg the spring summer twenty twenty one issue of the african american review is entirely dedicated to him which tracy fortunately discovered after. She chose the topic but before she got into the research. That doesn't always happen for us. No there it really doesn't. There was a whole a whole special issue. That was a hundred percent about a historical Retrospective on the nineteen eighteen flu. That came out like right after we finished that episode. So a lot of the academic work on shamburg has kind of wrestled with his identity. Both as he saw himself and as other people saw him in sort of how to interpret it all we talked about how he was seen as something of an outsider at the american negro academy. And how his latino heritage lead at least some people to question his blackness during his lifetime. Critics also told him to go home to puerto rico but kind of the connors of that is also true. He also faced racism and color ism among puerto rican and cuban activist communities because of his african ancestry and his embrace of that ancestry. His use of language was also criticised from every side. Editors often reworked his english language pros extensively. Alain locke once wrote quote. My good loyal friends. Schaumburg can gather facts but he cannot right. He was trained in puerto. Rico on florid. Spanish in his english is impossible and spanish speakers criticized his spanish even accusing him of forgetting in but in some cases it wasn't that he had forgotten anything it was that he had learned to speak spanish in puerto. Rico with very little formal education and then moved among communities in the us. That we're speaking a more hybridize spangler ish. Although the term spangler we should be clear had not been coined yet. The most recent scholarship on him has seemed a lot less focused on trying to quantify arturo alfonso schaumburg in kind of an either or way or interpreting him as a bridge between the puerto rican and black communities instead. There's a lot more recent writing notes. All the ways that he was both black and puerto rican and that really fits right in with his own quest to document the achievements of black people all over the world and his remarks on how the history of the caribbean and latin america. As we know it today would be impossible without black people. I am so glad. I stumbled across his name in a random article. And it finally made me go. Who is this person who the library have used so much as name glad to. Do you have glad listener mail. I do. I do have listener. Mail this is from nicole. I am hoping. I said that right because it is a slightly unusual spelling and the says. Hi holly in tracy. I just wrapped up the operation paper clip episodes and had to email you about fort hunt park a national park a few miles from mount. Vernon it's your typical park with horses trails softball fields pavilions and spanish american slash world war one air large gun battlements and a guard tower there is also a lovely placard noting operation paper clip and the other top secret work. That happened there during world war. Two it is certainly a shock when you pull into the park and you see the old batteries that have been reinforced for people to explore the outside. The interiors are close to the public. It's also where we held our wedding reception. Our ceremony was at the world war one monument on the national mall. It has always been a favourite spot. Before i met my now has been and now we often take our daughter there to explore and occasionally leaves are keys. It is a striking reminder. That history is all around us and woven into our dna and continues to impact and shape. Us i also wanted to mention that you all read mail from my sister after the bisbee deportation and i believe she is still ahead of me in the race to keep up to date with your podcast. She mentioned how our mother met. Martin luther king. And i wanted to mention that our mom went on to serve in the air force as an intelligence officer during vietnam. She now spends her time making well over five thousand wounded warrior quilts. And i'm proud to say my sister has the same skills and kind heart. I am not allowed near a sewing machine. I've attached a few photos from fort hunt to get an idea of the scope of the park. Please excuse the photos of the kissing dorks. They made us for the awkward engagement photos. And it was a hundred and five degrees. And i was ten weeks pregnant and forty years old. Thank you for continuing to share the good bad and ugly of our world. Best nicole thank you so much nicole for this email and also for the pictures. I found them to be charming. You're very charming. I agree and i. Also i looked at one of them and i was like there's little twining vine hanging off one of those trees in the background that kids you. I don't know if it was kudsy. Were not it's hard to identify. Plant we off in the distance from a from a picture but anyway thank you so much for sending these. I honestly never heard of this before me. But it does look like a nice place to to wander an explorer and you know think about all the various ways history has has continued to influence us all. So thank you so much for this email. If you'd like to write to us about this or any other podcast. Great history podcasts. At iheartradio dot com and. We're oliver social media history. That's where you'll find her. Facebook twitter pinterest and instagram. And you can subscribe to our show on the iheartradio app and anywhere else. You get your podcast stuff. You missed in history. Classes the production of iheartradio for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio app mod casts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In the last century we've gone from fighting in trenches to attacking networks from iron lungs to artificial bucket watches to bucket computers. The model t to the mars rover we are on the brink of interplanetary space travel and if we can colonize another planet then the future of the human race is almost guaranteed. The problem is we don't really understand how our brains work. We don't even know for sure why we need to sleep or how. Memories are formed the final frontier expiration is not the ocean of the stars. It's our minds. Prodigy is all grown up and in season two. We're going to explore a bunch of new topics like how to hack humans and teach teachers. Chronic pain chiropractors colts in cybersecurity the psychopathology of narcissism and how to control your dreams. My name is lola berlanti. And i'm really interested in why we do the things we do. Listen to prodigy every wednesday on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

shamburg puerto Cuba schaumburg spain Us Schaumburg schaumburg schaumburg center puerto rican american negro academy new york schanberg cuban revolutionary party schoenberg caribbean John edward bruce Alfonso schaumburg tracy wilson
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45:25 min | Last month

The Padmore Network: The Man Behind the Scenes of Pan-Africanism - Dr. Leslie James

"He would never have called himself insects. He didn't really like the word he was much. More interested in The kind of background organizing work. And that i think is why he has not got the attention that other anti-colonial organizers pan-africanist have received so that's that's the starting point. I mean his to know more about him is to know those battles is to know that his his intellectual work was done in order to organize to give people the tools to fight the colonial system before we get into the phillips set like to thank you for tuning in the no show of making academic research which many more people so that we can tackle inequality in education. Please join our community of members and help us. Keep the show alive by donating any amount. You can do this. Inauguration which can be found on patriots dot com slash. The no-show alternatively visit our website. Www duck the no-show. Leslie thank you so much for joining the no-shirt schaumburg pleased to have you and radically speaker. Thank you so much for reminding me an excellent so you have sort of Quite a wide area of interest in that utica. You know imperialism anti-imperialism pan-africanism Was who drove you to explore. So many sort of areas i mean. I guess there's a common thread between the but what what what so of lead you to to explore of this. I'm there be yet. There became a common thread I think it's really interesting to trace the thread of your own intellectual autobiography and trajectory actually with my master's students. I asked them to do this as well. Because i think it's really interesting. In my case i would say. My intellectual trajectory started with Reading dostoevsky and tolstoy in highschool and becoming fascinated by russian literature. So then i started studying russian history. And then i started moving into revolutionary histories and looking at specifically at russia in latin america. But then the caribbean kept coming back. it was kind of a skirt of what Outskirts of what. I was studying and then my partner gave me a book. He was reading in undergrad Which was sealer. James is black jackets and I had never. I think it's quite telling that. I had never read it. In as he was taking english. I was taking history and in history. I never read that book. In fact i knew nothing about the haitian revolution even though i had taken a class in modern revolutions And so that just kind of light my fire and then i started reading A friend of sealer. James called george padmore when i started getting interested in in reading more african history and then i completed my phd on judge padmore Which kind of took me all over the world because as we can discuss george padmore was born in trinidad moved to the united states. Became a communist worked for rush to russia and worked for the soviet union lived in germany annan ended his life in london. Most of it spent most the rest of his life in london working on leading anti colonial struggles around the caribbean africa India he had networks all over the place and so i ended up kind of studying somebody who brought me into all of the spaces that you identified at the beginning But i think that if i think about following my own intellectual trajectory and exemplifies the usefulness of what are now called global histories add methods allow historians to see wearing win. Interconnection is happening but also Also the contingency of it the the need to look when in where Interconnection in circulation of ideas is happening and in what scholars would now call the black atlantic. So my frame is the blackest. What people would call the black atlantic so do padmore is seems like an incredibly diverse character. Many ways in the you know. He's from the caribbean he went to the. Us which is the basic need. The belly of capitalism become communist and so of very incredible journey so give us more more about this character. I think this character doesn't get enough recognition. Yeah he. He definitely doesn't his kind of on the outskirts. And i one of the things. I like to try to. I try to do in. My book is explored why. And i think one of the reasons why is because His his political work his intellectual work he would never have called himself intellectual He didn't really like the word he was much. More interested in The kind of background organizing work. And that i think is why he has not got the attention. That other. anti-colonial organizers pen. Africanists have received So that's that's the starting point. I mean his to know more about him is to know. Those facts is to know that his His intellectual work was done in order to organize to give people the tools to fight the colonial system. So what happens to him in his biography is that you know. He moves from trinidad to the united states where he experiences american racism in the in the us south and And then into new york city. So he's in the south then. He's in new york city in harlem in the midst of all of the kind of harlem renaissance discussions and then he's recruited to the soviet union. Because he's like many caribbean Political activists he's very well-spoken. He's very articulate commands people's presence in so he gets recruited to work for the soviets the soviet communist international but through that work through that work he he essentially meets a cadre of people that are going to be part of his network for the next thirty years And he publishes a newspaper called the negro worker. He changes his name. He's not born george. Padmore is born malcolm nurse. Plum changes his name to george padmore and because of his work with the communist international known as george padmore pretty much around the world by the early nineteen thirties And so he keeps that name even after he leaves the communist party He leaves the communist party in the nineteen thirties because he sees that. Stalin is only fleetingly concerned with anti-colonial struggle. And so he he says. I'm not going to work with these organizations. That don't prioritize. This situation of colonized peoples spent the next almost twenty years in london. And just you know from his little flat with his partner. Dorothy peiser who again doesn't get enough attention. spends the next twenty years essentially setting up a system of Correspondents both in terms of letters but in terms of journalism and it's his journalism that led led me into a lot of my later work because what is essentially found was that he was the main node of a network that stretched throughout the african continent. the caribbean the united states. Because he wrote prolifically for Black american newspapers very famous black american newspapers like the chicago defender in the pittsburgh courier during the war. He was correspondent for them But he also clipped and reprinted and wrote and circulated news such stat. Basically now that. I'm looking in more detail at newspapers in ghana. Nigeria trinidad jamaica. You see that. He was kind of the person who would clip reprints. Send other people information and then get this dispersal network of Information into newspapers in In different parts of the african continent and even actually since. I've published my book. I still find new stuff. He i find stuff in south african newspapers. I find connections to you know people who are working in malaysia. He had friendships all around the world and his role. I think he saw his role is connect informing and connecting people. It's a very interesting position to play in a struggle. Like though the one that he experienced Because of how tough a task is i mean. I can't imagine it to be simple to be trying to reproduce this information. Gap spread across africa and the caribbean. So does that so of who gave him the backing to do this work. No-one which is which makes it even more Incredible he i mean he had the backing of the communist international but then of course when he left them he also had their ire and There was real active work to work against him. Both in terms of the communist international and certainly the british colonial office So let me. I'll say more about how you know. He was a source of concern. That was trying to be silenced. But let me say more about how. He did what he did. I mean i said historic his padmore. Dorothy heiser was kind of essential. She was both mainly the paid Empl paid person in that household that got them there necessities he's also working during wartime and postwar In postwar conditions. He did get paid for his newspaper. Articles in the pittsburgh courier and The chicago defender and things like that but otherwise he just he was just doing on his own. He worked very closely with a lot of british socialists. And there's more research Some people are doing more research now on his collaboration influence on british socialist. I mean he did actually have a major influence on the way the british socialists began to see imperialism as essential to what they were doing and that was part of his work was to say look. You cannot liberate the working class in britain unless you understand the connection to colonized workers so how he did. It was without a lot of other backing and against Odd so because he was known to be a communist and he remained a marxist even though he left the communist party but he was on all the lists of of the secret service. His mail was being read he was being observed. Like many of the People that kwami and crewmen joe can yada nnamdi as equally the leaders of african independence movements were also. Their mail was being opened And what. I found also is that because he was a known to be a marxist. He became the center of a colonial office concerns about communism in the colonies in the cold war. And so when you open up. British colonial office files about preventing soviet propaganda in the colonies. The name on in all of the colonial office discussion is george padmore because they think quite rightly that he well they misunderstand his marxism and his pan-africanism ism but they rightly understand that he is very well connected and that his ideas are influencing A lot of people in the colonies. He was his Major infantry who is his major influence He was inspired. His father was part of the early pan-africanist movement led by henry sylvester williams who is also a trinidadian so he was. He was inspired by henry sylvester williams in particular in in his in his pan-africanism He has a history to marxism-leninism and style and of course He's inspired by lennon's anti imperialism certainly and stalin's claim to support colonial struggles. And he's actually one of the lesser known aspects of his thinking in his history. Is that he. He's inspired by the ussr as what he say sees as decarbonised society so he's not just inspired by their By the communist movement but by and did a lot to cultivate this idea that day were at the vanguard of decolonizing the former russian empire and so that also inspired him a lot and he remains even as he moves to gone at the end of his life and advises commun- crema part of that being involved looking at how he believed the soviet union had taken the russian empire and given greater equality in the beret into the people's on the outskirts of the russian empire. There's a us sort of a question that comes to mind cause you mentioned that. The the colonial office misunderstood his pan-africanism. So what was his african ism. His there's a few different pan-africanism can be either a Capitalized or non capitalized in the sense that there is an understanding pan-africanism as specific organizational Movement that hopes for the unity of the african continent for example or of organizations his pan-africanism is certainly one of Organized associations he's at the forefront of organizing nineteen forty five manchester pan african congress. So what he has. Pan-africanism emphasizes is organizing people together to To advocate for a shared future together But i think he also did understand pan-africanism as a cultural and social connection and certainly in economic connection so his pan-africanism emphasizes for example the rule of capitalism in In the practice of enslavement in the history of enslavement of atlantic of the atlantic slave trade which produces the capitalist economy as he and his colleagues eric williams sealer james They both argued these things as well and so. His pan-africanism emphasizes the socioeconomic connection of african and african descended peoples through Through the interconnection of imperialism enslavement and capitalism as it came to be in the americas how Do does that. So full of the line of marcus garvey. It does follow the line. Although they were famously antagonistic. He was quite brutal In his kind of nation of garvey at times alone because well because he saw garvey as as as a kind of capitalist As as somebody who was arguing for As ns someone that was fooling African peoples in into african descended into believing that day could separate themselves off And that they could buy beginning. Businesses like the black star line Excuse me that would solve the problems in. So he didn't agree with garvey In terms of the kind of ideological strain however later in his life he recognized the movement. Garvey created his last book pan-africanism or communism. He he he centers garvey as essential to pan-african histories so even as in the nineteen thirties. He was vocally kind of critic he would show up. If garvey came speak in london. Hyde park he would show up in heckle him and And others but at the end he always recognized the crucial importance that garvey played in building a worldwide movement. So yeah that's very interesting. Because i mean to. What extent was the difference ideological and was an element of like eagle in both possibly an element of ego. Although i i would think not because if you look at pad. Moore's history and his activity. There is no very little ego in his In his politics heat he always is the man behind the scenes in my book. I described him as the man behind the scenes He's he's rarely. The person at the front of the stage rarely the person who He puts other people at the front of movements and then he kind of organizers it connects them to because of that. I don't think that ego is really at play in him. I actually think it really was a fundamental ideological disagreement in the nineteen thirties. And i will add to that. And this is part of what i'm currently working on. I'm currently working on ideas about what padmore called colonial. Fascism what i'm doing right now is looking at how actually in west africa and the caribbean you see a very wide debate in the nineteen thirties about What is the nature of fascism in. How is it similar different from colonialism. And so i can say same more about that. But one thing is that in the nineteen thirties. Garvey famously said that he thought that the his organization you were the first fascists and that you while he criticized German antisemitism and later backtracked there is a strain of garvey as of garvey's thought which did Praise mussolini's kind of proud and strong nationalism end. So there's a really complicated history with garvey And with a number of of black nationalists who are drawn to fascism because they believed that it. it fights for people. It has kind of strong A strong masculine est narrative that also fits with a a lot of of the unitarian garbage. I'm so i say that. Because that's another aspect of guardian padmore. Disagreement is the padmore was fundamentally anti fascist fundamentally incident anti anti colonial anti-fascist and he absolutely disagreed with garvey on garvey's understanding of fascism. I wanna talk about. I want to get into this more. And you current work and i wanna solve talk about your earlier experiences and of colonialism and imperialism But before the. I just want to remind audiences that can Support the show a You know helping us on patriot. You can just access our patron Page on hatred dot com for slash. The no show any support Become a member really just helps us. Get more academics. Like leslie and showing amazing. They're doing so please. Do show some support So you mentioned that you know early on in your in your earlier. Run your your career or against in your academic life you never heard of the haitian revolution. And of course that's telling in many ways of the fact that academia is fundamentally still colonized of what was your reaction to My reaction is is the same now as many students. When i teach my modern caribbean. And we read eric williams and sealer james blackjack bins and and And padmore and Walter rodney and maurice bishop is A little bit of anger and frustration. That why didn't i know about this before. How could i take whole modules and not ever be told that there is a major revolution which actually fundamentally challenged in a basic way. What no other revolution of the time was challenging. Which was you know. People's basic humanity in and freedom and and setting out really honestly much more universal anti-racists anti-colonial rights for people. And so i also should say. This doesn't come into my research. But i grew up in canada in southern ontario. And it took me to. It took me studying padmore and studying a lot of the kind of caribbean and african sinkers. That have helped me to think and understand over the last decade or so of my academic career. But it took that for me to realize that i came from a colonized society and history as well and that in the canadian narrative defect canada's a settler colony and that i grew up next to reservations Completely separated spaces from where i grew up. I was not aware of that In my education until until much later on So i think that that was for me. That was also a part of my intellectual development that i had to come to terms with the work that you you the research that you'll so of doing no where does that so of. How does that build on the work that you've done in the book so in a few ways i mean the first thing. Is that going to doing. The work on. Padmore helped me realize a few limitations of of of my own work in that respect and of a scholarship more general. The first is that what i wanted to start to do. With my current work is to Refrain some of the circuits of what we would call the black atlantic By again joining a lot of other other scholarship which emphasizes that this is a this is certainly histories of enslavement. But that there is so much more richness to it than that that we don't need to just tell the stories of enslavement But we can actually talk about a lot of other leather of other aspects of people's lives And secondly and most importantly that. I didn't start my work or career. Thinking that i would be i would call myself in intellectual and political historian But doing pad morris recognizing padmore as intellectual. Even though he didn't wanna be didn't think of himself as an intellectual made me realize that what i wanted to do with my work now is to acknowledge intellectual histories and expand intellectual histories. And i see this as part of of of ways of shifting the The scholarly work to open up in bringing more voices. And i am trying to do that now. By bringing in maurois is both in terms of the kind of intellectual productivity of colonized peoples who are having serious intellectual debates in spaces other than books and pamphlets in novels. So part of what. I'm trying to do is argue that we can find intellectual histories and they've been written out primarily because we think intellectual and political history is just about books pamphlets But that actually we can look for example to everyday newspapers. Which is what. I'm doing and see these sites intellectual debate and also I wanted to move away from the kind of great men narratives which padmore still fits into so pan more has been obscured but still part of that kind of great man. Intellectual leader and Some of my failings were not recognizing for examples the participation of women the work that women were doing intellectually and politically and also the every day intellectual debates which i argued newspapers on in particular are really useful for getting at to see how this is more than just a few elite educated literate intellectuals that actually when we look at debates in newspapers we see that an understand that newspapers were being read out to entire families in in neighborhoods and communities that we can see We can unearth the kind of workplace on the street. In daily news intellectual debates. How active was a a woman's voice in newspapers when it comes to suitable activism again. These are predominantly. It depends. Now i i have to be very careful because while there's i'm working on comparative histories between west africa and the caribbean and there are a similarities in interconnections but these are also very different spaces in african owned newspapers in west africa. It's the are undoubtedly male dominated spaces. There are. There is the first nigerian Editor in the nineteen thirties. There are few journalists. There are women's columns and actually I one i've learned a lot from A colleague Who's worked on. Cameroon and she really challenged me. Jacqueline mugabe who has done work to show. How in women's call them in the british cameroon Yes they are publishing recipes. Yes they are talking about cooking and cleaning but actually if you read them much more carefully they are also talking about politics and There's there's a number of works that i'm working. I'm thinking with right now including annette. K joseph gabriel's work reimagining liberation about french Black french women who who fundamentally change ideas of citizenship she argues and so although these are male dominated spaces you have a few female journalists and they are and they creatively speak about politics in ways that you could easily dismiss until you look more closely as check. Mcgrew is shown in in the caribbean What i've found is that women were particularly prominent in voicing in the nineteen thirties. labour revolts. That are happening in in the caribbean. It's women who are connecting these to the history of slavery because one thing that's often forgotten is that the labor goals happen at the centenary of anticipation like almost exactly in in the case of jamaica. The the the the revolt of striking workers happens months before they're supposed to celebrate one hundred years since the end of slavery and it's women who are writing most specifically about understanding their present moment as as as as a question of how far they have come in terms of freedom. So what does freedom mean in nineteen thirty eight It means It's it's fundamentally upper question. It's women who bring that to the four is that have we have. We actually progressed far enough in terms of of freedom interesting. because i think when you look at when you look at decolonization or you look at anti imperialism. I think it's very easy for you to gravitate towards africa. As opposed to to the caribbean because so many african independence happened roughly around the same time. But that doesn't dismiss the the impact of the work of people in the caribbean and they went through and i'm so give of a more of a snapshot of what what those movements looked like in the caribbean. So the caribbean we've already to things that are essential to understanding the decolonization in the caribbean. Have already come up first. Garvey ism so the the way that garvaghy in galvanized so you scholars have worked on the us Civil rights movement. And what you argued the. What you can see is that a lot of people got their training for civil rights through the un. A and i think in some cases you can say the same thing that if we look at the movements. That are having caribbean. A lot of people were involved in in the universal. Negro improvement association influenced inspired by garvey In the nineteen thirties. And that gives them kind of training ground to set up their own associations that are going to fundamental And then the second thing is the labor revolt so caribbean. Decolonization happens an When i say decolonization i think here. I'm referring to political independence. sovereignty self government in the nineteen fifty s and early nineteen sixties. And that if you look at the political leaders a lot of them were trade union got their start in being trade union leaders Being involved in either being involved in or on the outskirts of labor of the labour revolts in the late nineteen thirties And so one of the aspects of caribbean decolonization is understanding that carribean political parties and associations share a very close connection with trade union parties and associations and workers associations that data is a trajectory from workers associations into political parties and that that then leads into The political organization of movements. But what's what's specific about the caribbean as well is that It it. It moves along a pass where a british colony office stay. They're going to create a west indian federation so it moves along a path of political federation as the form that independence is going to take however This this is the work of other scholars to say that what what happened was that the colonial office worked at cross purposes because they moved to set up british west indian federation at the same time as they are slowly opening up voting processes in each specific colony such that political parties began to establish themselves in each specific colony and political leaders are negotiating for more seats in the elected house of representatives. And so they're they're doing two things one of which is to move to federation the other which is to set each colony in a different path towards Political representation which means that at the moment of independence in federation It's very difficult for people to actually see how they're going to work in a federal model and federation famously fails. It only lasts a few years before the two major colonies Former colonies trinidad and jamaica leaves the federation and then it falls apart after that quickly. You think that was done by design so that you know these so that the islands the caribbean islands don't particularly have a strong force united force I haven't evidence that it is by design. And i think that the way that the colonial office in administration works That that might be scrubbing too much. too much attention to what they do. I think i think what happens. Is that they work across purposes because governors on the spot including administrators on the spot. A different aim in perspective often to the colonial office. And there. i think it's a matter of not fully thinking through. It's a matter of in some sense responsiveness. So they say okay. Well we need to open up the elected number of elected Seats and so they start to slowly do that. And not think about how it might be related to to constitutional developments towards federation so in some senses. They do things reactively. And and don't think about how that's going to influence policy. Go to padma for moment. You mentioned that he his involvement in soviet union. Let him having this enormous network. What did he do. You think he kept seles on this network because as well as he could've Yeah i mean he it. I've looked in the soviet archives at the people corresponding with in those early days and those people prop up again in a gain afterwards. So he for example helps A gold coast editor newspaper proprietor Named alfred john can see who owned several newspapers. Hires a man named benjamin with ave to run a new newspaper called the goldco spectator padmore when he's working for the communist. International helps them get a printing press so that that really basic material like how do we. We need Newspaper we need a printing press. We can't afford new expensive one. How did we get one. He helps that. And then you see that pad. Moore's writing in goldco spectator most of the nineteen thirties in nineteen forties and that connects him to Any number of other organizations. So i think that he took a and and the fact that he never changed his name back after. He kept his nom-de-guerre Shows that he was using the name that he made for himself as the publisher of the negro worker as the man who was running the international trade union Committee of negro workers and that that notoriety network Allowed him to move forward afterwards. I think he did his as i mentioned. I think his stories are really really compelling nothing Think your book is definitely A much-needed piece of literature on what this character intel's with fry his journey. And and so. I definitely do recommend that people find access to it so on that note. Where can people access You and where people since the book so you can access the book on any In any in any online bookstore Palgrave macmillan the publisher blackwell's in the uk blackwell's I mean it's on amazon. But i won't Promote amazon too much And then me. I mean you can email me at leslie dot james at cwm you'll dot and i would love to hear more of what people are doing as i said and i would emphasize this again i i see. I want to move away from the loan scholar who is doing their work in publishing their things and recognize that i all of my stuff comes from intellectual conversations and collaborations with people and and through the thoughts in the words of the people that i'm working on And who are teaching me fundamentally so yeah anybody can contact me a you on twitter by chance i am and my handle and send me the honduran. Then i'll just plug into the episodes. What advice would you give to a young person. I would say a young woman and into the field of of looking at de cologne Decolonization and Imperialism advice would you give them if they're if they were to explore kirk to like how you did Follow your passion. Don't don't Don't let anybody tell you that especially that women were not involved in maybe take the time to figure out how you can look for the stories and look at material in a way that somebody that that goes against the assumptions. Don't let anybody tell you that Workers demands aren't part of intellectual history that That women's thoughts about domestic work aren't also part of intellectual history We can do lots of things to work out how those are intellectual histories of suffering. That's a fantastic vice. Leslie thank you so much for joining me. A reading enjoyed speaking to you. And i hope to have you on sometime soon. Thank you very much. I just like to take a moment to kind of remind you guys to subscribe to our show. An oprah cost platform and youtube as well as instagram. You can find all these links on. Www dot no-show dot net. Join us today and be part of the research revolution.

malcolm nurse padmore garvey caribbean henry sylvester williams trinidad Padmore soviet union united states london judge padmore caribbean africa Dorothy peiser Dorothy heiser Garvey eric williams kwami yada nnamdi British colonial office Major infantry
Juneteenth - Make it a Federal Holiday!

Let's Get Civical

38:13 min | 3 months ago

Juneteenth - Make it a Federal Holiday!

"This episode is brought to you by hp plus in a world full of smart devices. Isn't it about time. Your printer got smart to now. Printing is smart with hp fuss and the hp smart app is how it all happens. You can print from your phone with just a tab no matter where you are even from your garage slash home office slash. Go studio that is smart. Hp plus learn more about smart printing at hp dot com slash smart. This episode is brought to you by simply by frito lay these days. You have a lot going on but now thanks to simply by frito-lay you have one less thing to worry about so kick back and enjoy your favourite frito lay snacks with ingredients to feel good about like simply blue. Corn tostitos sea salted ruffles. And even white cheddar cheetos pops all made with no artificial colors or flavors. Enjoy what you love and look for simply brands snacks online or at a store near you. Hey everyone welcome to. Let's get civic all. This is the podcast that breaks down politics government structure and dies into the context of current events. But in a superfund way i'm lizzy stewart comedian feminist and political junkie and. I am arden wallet housekeeper former senate intern campaign staffer and political. Strategist in this episode. We're talking about juneteenth so grab your red velvet cake and let's get cynical food. Hello everybody everybody. Welcome back to. Let's get cynical. I am lizzie. Stewart and i am arden wallet hausky and i don't think we've said this yet but happy pride aid happy celebrating which should be every single that happy bride we are. We are now in june deeply in june. I don't really know where june has gone. She shipping tonight. Yeah this feels just like well. It's because if you are in new york and maybe on the east coast we've been having a lot of rain and like coolish days like we have. We've had a couple of hot summer days but really like not any consistent hot summer days which to me makes june not feel like june because you think junior thank god. It's hot yes but it's not yet like gets it isn't it isn't i. Don't know maybe that's why it doesn't feel like june. I don't i think who knows. Yes i part of it. And then i think for me. I've just been all over the place. And so i don't live in one place i don't. I have not been in a single place longer than a week for the last six weeks. It's a little crazy headaches. It's gonna keep going until basically mid-july and it's so it's so fun no complaints but it does. Can you go. What liguori was on a plane this morning. Here we are insane. You look great thank you. I did not shower. Glad i would you know why would you show. There's no purpose. There's no but weirdly enough. we're not talking about The weather Or anything like that but we are the our episode. Today has june in the name. And it's one of those topics that i feel like was never taught about in which is kind of most of the theme of our episodes yup never taught about in school. But it's like a real a really important holiday. That is coming up this week. So we are going to unpack and talk about juneteenth yeay and explore. I mean for me. It's like going to be the first real deep dive. I've ever been able to do on it so that's really exciting and it's just a really important thing man. It's exciting you know. It's an exciting. Celebratory holiday and i feel. Yeah we're going to talk about why it's not a yet the holiday but i do feel like it should be safe. Federal holiday and capital f. federal holiday. It is not but it should be. But i know that there's been like buzzes and whispers about making it. You know federal holiday. But nothing yet come to fruition. Yep i think it's time it is time time yet but before we jump into the meat to talk about today's harsher iron in star says. I'm seeing a lot of new faces which is exciting. Yes so this one. This was really fun. Because i mean researching the episodes. It's always fun for me. Because i learned a lot. But this one was like ultra fund for me. Because like i've never used oprah before and here we we we are. we've arrived. we have arrived. I there's nobody. I trust more than oprah so we're looking at sources fra or information from the national museum of african american history and culture. Love an article by jamila nasheed. Great article from teen vogue teen vogue gets it. They put out some excellent material. Shoutout really they really do some great work and like well researched work. I have to say an article from the website is called a. L. dot com really. It's alabama dot com. And it's like you again line. Bits look online newspaper. Great is great article by lita gore. Another article from the new york times by derek. Mason taylor some info from our tried trusted true besties at history dot com and an article by mackenzie gene. Philip from oprah daily from oprah's yes yes yes which great a great of perspective. i think. They're the ones that had like this really great perspective about if you're not black like how you can celebrate juneteenth Love it. Yeah absolutely well okay then. Let's swan dive into this. So we're going to just start with where we always start. Which is the origins. Where does this come from. How did we get juneteenth. And these are coming from the national museum of african american history and culture and history dot com so quote on freedoms eve or the eve of january. I eighteen sixty three. The i watched night services took place on that night. Enslaved and free african americans gathered in churches and private homes all across the country awaiting news that the emancipation proclamation had taken effect at the stroke of midnight. Prayers were answered an all. Enslaved people in confederate states were declared legally free union soldiers of whom were black marched onto plantations and across cities in the south reading. Small copies of the emancipation proclamation spreading the news of freedom confederate states only through the thirteenth amendment did emancipation slavery throughout the united states. So big time big event yet. Obviously so we're leading up. We're starting to lead up. We're in the civil war. Obviously the man's vision proclamation huge deal sort of kick started at the freedom of slaves. Didn't really actually truly take effect till the thirteenth amendment. But yet it's a it's a bogus. We're at the beginning of the process or at the beginning of the process. Yup not everyone in the confederate territory would immediately be free as we just said. Even though the emancipation proclamation was made effective in eighteen sixty three it could not be implemented in places still under confederate control so we have not yet won the civil war now. The confederacy is still up to their absolute. No good doing their bullshit. So so we're not fully able to you know. Get get a handle on them. Because lincoln was like everybody's free and the confederate states were like no. You don't listen to you. The confederate states were off being assholes and not being good people. they're doing some shady shit down. they're not a fan of the confederacy. Obviously continuing on the emancipation proclamation issued by president abraham lincoln had established that all enslaved people in confederate states in rebellion against the union shall be then thence forward am forever. Free fence forward fence forward. I had ever said before. I even used one time. Masturbation fence forward and forever free. Obviously the confederate battersea was like. Ll no so cute. You think that as a result in the western most confederate state of texas enslaved people would not be free until much later. Freedom finally came on june nineteenth eighteen sixty five when some two thousand union troops arrived in galveston bay texas. So this is where we're getting into the juneteenth -ness of it all yup. So this is two years after the emancipation proclamation. Like two and a half two and a half year right down a half years. Texas is up to no good. Just be an absolute asshole not not falling in line with what's going on until june nineteen eighteen sixty five so once the union troops arrived there to galveston which is crazy because i grew up going to galveston close to houston. The army announced that the more than two hundred fifty thousand. Enslaved black people in the state were free by executive decree. This day came to be known as juneteenth by the newly freed people in texas. So what. I've always understood it to be is exactly this where it's like. This was the day where like finally like this last holdout basically of the confederacy not giving freedom to enslaved people. Yeah and that's and that was on. June nineteenth with june nineteenth is about obama. Juneteenth yet surprise did you hear about. I didn't hear about juneteenth. Until like i lived in the city for like ten. I'd never heard about you. And i'm from texas. I'm from texas. I grew up in houston which is an hour away from galveston. Never in my life. Heard of juneteenth. Wow until yeah. Until i came to new york and got an actual you know you could say more thorough education by just you know meeting new people and learning more and expanding my horizons but yeah it was not part of the Let's call it the curriculum. I mean or if it was it was a sentence. Yep in a book you know. Yeah maybe i heard about this but it wasn't put to me as like a. This is a huge moment and considered a day of independence and blah blah blah drive. It was probably like and then on this day. They've the rest of them. Were finally told servery three and a half years ago they were free. Nobody had told them right exactly And what's hilarious is like in the seventh grade. My history class for the entire year was called texas history. Never once our this pivotal moment. Yeah fully about texas. That's great coming. Not hearing about it in ohio like it's not great but it makes a little bit more sense when you would think that. For god's for gosh sakes. This was an hour away right. We all go to the beach in galveston. Right you're not going to tell me that. This was also where june teen was born from. No it's not important. All know impor no important. Golly anyhow so that's out that was the sort of road to juneteenth. Yes so then. So let's talk just a little bit about the meaning of the holiday. And again this all coming from the national museum of african american history and culture in dc so the emancipation period known as reconstruction which was from eighteen sixty five to eighteen seventy seven marked era of great hope uncertainty in struggle for the nation. As a whole formerly enslaved people immediately sought to reunify families established schools run for political office push radical legislation and sue and even sue slaveholders for compensation given the two hundred plus years of enslavement. Such changes were nothing short of amazing. So they're like doing all of this stuff and like the related the rebuilding quite a short matter of time considering like extreme disadvantages they were. I mean we're not seeing. Yeah yeah they have they have no lands. They have no no wages. They there's a thing that put whole families back together mean right. Juneteenth marks our country's independence day although it has long been celebrated in the african american community. This monumental event remains largely unknown to most americans trip. Yeah i mean we are. We are the example to that it is absolutely white erasure of like a real so i mean it's interesting but it's like the fact that it happens on us on a holiday that is within the civil war context the man. Y'all had to erase this one. Yeah like come on. Y'all are so obvious makes me mad man. Yeah but in terms of celebrating juneteenth because again obviously very celebratory debt e. So this is coming from that really great teen vogue article by jamila and she'd in eighteen sixty six the year after granger's the first juneteenth anniversary celebration happened since then celebrations in certain regions of the united states have continued the tradition of honoring this important day in eighteen. Seventy two a group of formerly enslaved people put together eight hundred dollars and purchased ten acres of land in houston texas for the city's annual juneteenth celebrations. They named the space emancipation park. And it plays host to the juneteenth celebration. Even now i have no idea this exists on. This is my home. this is my no. I no idea. I mean you know. Houston is enormous. But yeah it's not like this is this is not in this was not in like this also could be a product of you know might upbringing in what i was exposed to but like not i was not exposed to this at all in any element of my life which is bananas. Have you heard of emancipation park. No i haven't and that's unfortunate to say obviously but yeah had no contact. It's not. I'm like i'm telling you it's not something i mean. Probably i would say now if i lived in houston. I'm sure it would be more talked about. Yeah sort of like everyday news events especially leading up to june teens like everybody more woke now. So we're all sort of hopping on board right but certainly not growing up like i don't know where this place is up on the map. So it's downtown ish. Houston kind of more next to midtown for all folks. How am i got google maps. Its description is a recreation facility dedicated to freedom which like. Yeah go off. Yep that's what she is that she is. If you're in the houston area for juneteenth. Check out what's going on in anticipation park. It's right there as rather continuing on in the wake of the twenty twenty. Racial justice uprisings. A growing number of company is decided to honor juneteenth as an annual holiday for employees. It is also crept into the mainstream media. Recently with abc's blackish fx atlanta both featuring episodes that prominently celebrate it in nineteen eighty texas became the first state to make juneteenth a state holiday an asset today forty five states and washington. Dc recognized the day as a state holiday. I think it's also tricky about it. Is that because at least when i was in school like you you're hot lard. The school system ended at the beginning of may so also harder to track as a young pup. What's a holiday when it summer right right right now and if it's like if it's not being talked about or if it's not something that you're learning about in school is like a moment to stay and it's not a part of your sort of day to day media like wasn't on the new like you know doesn't really and it's not part of your like your cultural upbringing are like whatever shirley ready for the july like you know. Yeah it's it's whatever your as a kid it's whatever your parents celebrate that you then also celebrate so if your parents are celebrating probably because they had never heard of this day an over sure. I mean it goes. It goes next generation. Right like the reason we're not taught just because the people before us weren't taught it brett etc etc yet. Despite the lack of federal recognition the holiday has lived on through rich traditions every year since the first juneteenth occurred. Small pockets of the united states have erupted celebrations on june nineteenth. But everyone has a different idea of how to celebrate. You might see. Grand parades neighborhood gatherings lively celebrations in the form of festivals with local bands. Playing storytelling picnics. And a juneteenth staple barbecues traditionally red drinks and red foods are a must add. These barbecues with red symbolizing resilience. So as you start to plan your juneteenth celebrations this week. Consider having read drinks. Red food as a symbol that is associated with juneteenth. Yup so many read things you can do so many red thing ache apple pie. Yeah what else. Flaming hot cheetos. How cheetos flaming hot flaming hot reggie does. We're going to take a quick break for a little word from our sponsors part of one of the things that the the article from alabama dot com suggested was that like the traditional drink is strawberry soda. Hello and then. They gonna ever had a strawberry soda. I didn't even know they existed. And then Dessert would-be strawberry pie. Which sounds really good. The you could also do other red foods. They said that are typically cooked and served are red rice which is rice rice with tomatoes. Watermelon and like lizzie said red. Velvet cake relegate. You can't go wrong with naccache not really can't it's a is it. Is it regular. that's red. Yes but it is so good it is so good mainly because of the cream cheese frosting crunchies creating us. Call me lizzy cream. She's stewart because i love cream. Cheese cannot go wrong with cream cheese. Frosting it is. It is amazing and like lizzie. Said the red symbolizes. The red foods commemorate the blood that was spilled during the days of slavery so it's about like paying homage to those who went before the endured horrible terrible hardships as enslaved people right churches. Also join in juneteenth celebration with picnics and special services. Many of which feature traditional african american music and hymns again this is all coming from alabama dot com. This particular year in two thousand twenty one galveston will dedicate a five thousand square foot. Mural entitled absolute equality on the spot where general grainger. Who was the guy who came in and like told everybody that they were freed. Man was on the spot where general grainger informed the enslaved african americans of their freedom. I mean back in eighteen sixty five. It's crazy that i mean it's obviously like a product. Juneteenth coming into the mainstream fold is obviously a product of of the uprisings. That happened directly. After the death. Of george floyd which is obviously like it's it's i think a very positive impact that now it's becoming part of the team everyday conversation. We talk about the month of june yet but it is also. It's just such a fuck and bummer that it took until twenty twenty one for the the city where it happened in to like. Recognize it in some real way yup and their own like activist. I forget openly yet. She's she's the grandmother of juneteenth. She still alive. She is ninety four and she has been advocating like celebrating and advocating for june eighteenth to become like a federal holiday for quite some time. So she's like. Yes like the the events of george floyd and everything that happened afterwards. All of the the uprisings from last summer definitely like gave juneteenth this platform where people then like. Oh i know what this is about and this is a great holiday inn okay. Let's celebrate it and like how could i. How could i not have known so it does. It's like one of those things that does feel like this happened overnight. When like it's been hot. Yeah they've been in a way. Yes but also in a different way no like there have been who've been talking about this inviting for it for some time years and years and years yeah so galveston is going to dedicate this mural. The city will also mark the holiday with a parade and picnic. events an activities in other cities like atlanta haven't scaled back because of covid but organizers have made plans for music festival at centennial olympic. Park in atlanta similar events are scheduled to happen in annapolis maryland. Detroit and los angeles love. Yeah so cities are getting involved. Great and this is. What's coming from oprah daily. It was a great article by return one more time. I'm mackenzie gene philip. So she. I really liked this. She said okay so quote for anyone who isn't black but would like to recognize juneteenth every year. June nineteen is a great way to honor and embraced by culture through. Its art in history. You might want to take the opportunity to learn about major. I from african americans read a book. Black author catch a film that honor spike life or support black owned companies. Most importantly remember that all of those things shouldn't just happen juneteenth but every day because it's never a bad time to celebrate the independence of everyone in our country. Yep yeah i love that. I love that absolutely absolutely so. We've talked about. June teamed being recognized kind of on a state level. Let's talk about the national conversation because as we said at the top of this episode she. She's not a national holiday Obviously i think she should be. But she's not yet. So these notes are going to come from That new york. Times article. By derrick. Bryson taylor and then a little bit from oprah daily because each gene phillip Article in nineteen eighty. Texas became the first state to designate juneteenth as a holiday though the recognition is largely symbolic surprise surprise since then at least forty five states and the district of columbia have moved to officially recognize the day. Here's this is crazy to me last october. In twenty twenty governor andrew. Cuomo of new york and governor ralph northam of virginia. Both democrats signed into law legislation declaring juneteenth as holidays in their respective states. So like new york for all that it like tries to present as like progressive which it is like to some extent like we didn't do this until twenty twenty. You know it's not like we were ahead of the curve here so let's not already. We're forty years after. Texas were forty years after taxes. And truly this had we did this directly because of the uprisings of george floyd so we were kind of like everybody. Yes so come on new york. Get ahead of the curve last month. May twenty twenty one governor. Jay inslee of washington declared juneteenth state holiday starting in twenty twenty. Two i don't know why twenty twenty one wasn't good enough and approved a bill that would make it a paid day off for all state employees and a school holiday. That's what i'm talking about. Let people have. It paid day off because it's not a paid day off i for employees then is on day no. It's not a holiday because people who work st who work like jobs at won't let them just take off have to still go in gun. Amid last year's unrest many businesses move towards making it as making it a company holiday giving many employees a paid day off twitter and square along with the nfl. Best buy nike and target all recognized juneteenth last year but so far it has fallen short becoming a national holiday. There are several online petitions calling for the change and senator bernie sanders of vermont also called for it to become a national holiday in twenty nineteen when he recognized opel lee who we mentioned before who is an activist from fort worth and has been campaigning. For june to federal holiday for years and years in two thousand eighteen the us senate passed a resolution designated june nineteenth as juneteenth independence day but it has not yet reached the house with hawaii's governor likely to sign a bill formerly acknowledging emancipation day. South dakota is set to be the only state that does not recognize the celebration as a state holiday or day of observance dakota get it together. You can't have mount rushmore and not celebrate juneteenth. Like you're just being a little hypocrite. The idea that you would have like those four guys who most of most of them did something good for the united states. Either the false that they have you know from our perspective looking back on them the idea that like you would have that in your state and yet modestly when one of those abraham lincoln exactly exactly put babe on a mountain and not recognize juneteenth. Oh no that's rude. That seems like a strategy in the base and slightly hypocritical out to go to get your shit together. Yeah so in march of twenty twenty one so this is not to three ago. You know that it was blocked thirty one to thirty six. So if you live in south dakota call your house representative and be like what the actual is up. Will you wanna you wanna people on the side of the mountain. But you don't want to celebrate. Teeth. super critical oneplus. Two is not equaling three over here. Thank you no. Thank you with your hypocrisy again. This is the the legislatures not the people. The people i see you in the love you so that's kind of where it is as a national holiday and where it's being recognized across the united states. I mean it's pretty on a state level mostly recognized in some form. We didn't go over. How all of the states recognize it. Some of them. It's a state holiday. So employees get off maybe companies are giving it off but it seems like it's still maybe has a far away to go to become a federal holiday but you know here's here's here's hoping this'll be something that like if you wanted to check it on as like an amendment. I would be thrilled. Yeah i should come this. We can't agree on this on this. What can we agree like in what. What is the argument against having it. I have no. You know what i mean. It's such a. it's a happy day like it's a happy day. It's obviously a day that deserves remembrance and like it falls in line with all of our values as a nation yet and like. Just get it together. Get it together. And that's and i am no long and i won't be angry anymore. Offer soapbox i'll step off my back in your bubble bath and like y'all get me out of my bubble bath for this like this is insane. Mine make it a federal holiday. Yup god no. I did not realize this so i mean there's a lot about juneteenth that i i. I knew where it had. It came from last year after last year when it kind of became like a common kind of came into everybody's consciousness as a thing horton. But i didn't realize this that i had a flag i didn't realize it either but it has a flag. I love a flag. Yeah so the national juneteenth observance foundation. Go off your own foundation. Helje or was he organized. It was founded in one thousand nine hundred four and recognizes the same colors in the us flag red white and blue showing that the formerly enslaved were and are americans. So they're repurposing those colors and those colors to mean to chill like honor the importance of that but also to signify that like we have always been here we have. We have always been american so like you know. Treat us as such absolutely created an official flag for the holiday nineteen ninety-seven which features red and blue striped sections separated by an arc that signifies new horizons opportunity. And obviously we can put this in the like me. Describe is not going to do justice. We can not. It'll be on the instagram going to let on instagram. It'll be there. I actually really liked this flag as far as flags go lake highway more interesting than japan. Like oh my god yeah guys like drag them up. You know what i appreciate about. Japan is that like it is simple but like it's not you don't get mixed up with anything else no and it does go with the like. I don't know. I just feel like it's a very light kind of simple mike minimalist type of culture and i feel like the flag does a job of representing that. I think it's i think it's excellent branding. Branding you know and it was. Yeah like i said. I get certain flags mixed up all the time. Of course like some have the same colors but some are vertical whereas others are horizontal. I'm like oh my god like look at what's already in the room for coming up with your flag and what japan did were like. Wow there's a law in the room and there's a lot. There's a lot of clutter in the room you know what white flag ride dot. Let's go let's go. let's go. I appreciate them my like. If i had flag my flag would probably just be like something like that. Like just a solid background and then like a picture of a cheese platter. I love that would be playing background and crown. Yes queen lizzy quinlan's. Whoops do not apologize so news. So they created an official flag for the holiday in nineteen ninety-seven which features red and blue stripe sections separated by an arc. That figure that signifies new horizons and opportunity. Cute love great. Love in the middle is a large white star of texas bursting with new freedom throughout the land. Ours at night are big and bright clap. Clap clap clap. Even the heart of texas. Let's go girl you quote that song. The prominent star both represents texas the lone star state and symbolizes the freedom of all african americans in the fifty states in two thousand seven the significant date. June nineteen eighteen sixty five was added to the flag. And i should say sorry. All coming from the oprah daily article mackenzie gene phillips goes on to say quote but despite these being the formal colors of the holiday you'll also see people honoring black independence day with red black and green colors. These are the colors of the pan. African flag which was in nineteen twenty and encouraged by leader of the universal negro improvement association and jamaican activist. Marcus garvey and this flag the flag the of the universal negro improving association honors people of african dispora and off and also symbolizes black liberation and freedom. So we'll both. We'll put both only instagram. Both whichever one you want to use to celebrate. I think is great. Yeah and like watch watch a film by a black director. Watch a like rita book by a black author. Go see some black some art by some black artists. Pink like go to black owned stores like put your money into blackbox is starbucks is fine. Let's go someplace else. There's so many good you know. I mean just like living in brooklyn obviously so so spoiled with just amount of not just like all like so. Many people of color ryan owned organizations and shops and businesses like. There's no excuse. Not there's no extra especially now that online shopping is a thing. Go to oetzi like mine from like support. Somebody that way like amazon doesn't need germany like no they don't need it goes who shop local And that that is that is such a great way to celebrate juneteenth and also celebrate by educating yourself. I mean like i you know. I've no shame in admitting that. I had no idea of what this holiday really stood for until like a lot of people. Twenty twenty of in the summer of last year and everything that was going on and you should just continue to educate yourself. It's okay if you don't know something. It's not okay if you don't find out. Yeah just like. Just broaden your horizons. Let's do about a culture that you didn't grow up with no about her. Have a strong sense for one up now. More well rounded person exactly right and with that data the end of june episode. So we hope you all have a happy and healthy and safe juneteenth again. It is june nineteenth. Celebrate however you feel is appropriate and in the meantime we love you so so much if you like what you heard. You can find us on twitter and instagram. At let's get cynical. You can rate us. You can review us. You can subscribe to us. We love you so much. We'll see you next wednesday bah.

texas oprah galveston frito hp national museum of african ame george floyd houston lizzy stewart lizzie liguori jamila nasheed lita gore Mason taylor mackenzie gene national museum of african ame new york alabama united states
Democracy Now! 2020-08-20 Thursday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2020-08-20 Thursday

"From New York is democracy, now we're breaking with convention. I keep thinking about that twenty, five year old Indian woman all of five feet tall. Who gave birth to me at Kaiser Hospital in Oakland California? On that day she probably could have never imagined that I would be standing before you now. And speaking these words. I accept your nomination for Vice President of the United States of America senator. Kamla Harris makes history by officially becoming the first woman of color to be a major party's vice presidential nominee will appeal experts of excerpts of her acceptance speech as well as President Obama's unprecedented warning that the future of democracy in the United States is at stake if president trump is reelected. That's all it democracy withers. Until it snow democracy at all. And we cannot let that happen. Do. Not let them take away your power. Do not let them take away your democracy. Well, air highlights from the Democratic National Convention and speak to the attorney and activist Derek. Cornell and the historian Keisha Blaine all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now, democracy now dot org where breaking with convention I. Mean He Goodman Senator Kamala Harris has. The Democratic vice presidential nomination becoming the first woman of color to run on a major party presidential ticket. Is the daughter of immigrants and Indian mother and Jamaican father she accepted the nomination on the third day of the Virtual Democratic National Convention on an evening filled with the voices of women speaking about gun violence, immigration, climate crisis, domestic violence, and more former president. Barack. Obama spoke just before Harris accepted the nomination warning president trump poses a grave threat to American democracy. This administration has shown it will tear our democracy down. If that's what it takes for them to win. Later in the broadcast will air extended excerpts of Senator, Harris his acceptance speech and other voices from the DNC in California hundreds of wildfires triggered by lightning strikes exploded in size fan by gusty winds and record high temperatures driven by the climate crisis governor. Gavin NEWSOM has declared a statewide emergency and mobilized the National Guard. We are experiencing. Likes of which we haven't seen in many many years the totality when you consider three, hundred, sixty, seven active fires that we are aware of all across the state of California thick smoke from the fires is blanketed parts of northern California including the bay area where fires have consumed over one hundred, twenty, four, thousand acres are threatening tens of thousands of structures, air quality and parts of the region. Wednesday registered as the worst in the world with residents urged to remain inside with their windows and doors closed meanwhile, California's reliance on prison. Labor has led to a shortage of fire crews. Prison officials have placed twelve of California's forty three prisoner fire camps on lockdown due to a massive outbreak of covid. At. A Northern California prison that serves as a training center for prisoners who are paid just one dollar an hour to fight blazes to see our special on the prisoner fire camps, you can go to democracy now dot org the United States recorded nearly thirteen hundred new corona virus deaths and forty three thousand new cases Wednesday with Georgia Florida and Texas. Leaving the US and per capita infections the official US death toll stands at over one hundred, seventy, three, thousand, six months into the US epidemic healthcare workers report they're continuing to struggle to obtain personal protective equipment has churches, schools, and businesses drive demand for limited supplies of N Ninety Five. Masks and other safety gear tests around the country are in short supply here in New York City, the head of the teachers unions said Wednesday members ready to call in sick or go on strike if schools reopened for in person classes before teachers feel safe Michael mcgrew is president of the United Federation of Teachers. The minute we feel that the mayor is trying to force people into a situation that is on safe we go. We go to court we go to job action that's where we go. New York Mayor Bill De Blasios fired back warning the Teacher's Union against any labor actions that aren't allowed under its collective bargaining agreement with the city. Any. Union leader talks about something illegal should really think twice about what he's saying. Mayor de Blasio has yet to commit to a schedule for the fall school year but has strongly suggested. He's prepared to order some classrooms to reopen on September, tenth under blended model that combines in person and distance learning. New Zealand has deployed five hundred additional soldiers to patrol quarantine hotels. After at least seventy, five people became infected with Corona virus in the capital Auckland during New Zealand's first outbreak in more than one hundred days. Zambia's seventy nine year old vice president tested positive for Covid nineteen Wednesday and went into self-isolation. At Least Fifteen Zombie lawmakers have contracted the corona virus and two of them died of Covid nineteen in Europe, Spain France and Croatia have recorded their highest rates of infection since ending strict lockdowns earlier this year meanwhile in Sweden health officials recorded the nation's highest six-month death toll in over one hundred, fifty years during the first. Half of twenty twenty this week journalists obtained email showing Sweden's top epidemiologists push to keep schools open so that children would spread covid nineteen and pushed the population toward herd immunity. He also asked her colleague whether a higher death rate among serious be acceptable among seniors might be acceptable in Iran the official death toll from Covid nineteen past the twenty thousand mark even as education officials plan to administer university entrance exams to over a million students. Iran, surging cases came as president trump threatened to use a procedural maneuver to reimpose. United Nations sanctions against Iran something. European powers insist the US does not have the authority to do. In Belarus mass protests are continuing worth a week after longtime authoritarian leader. Alexander Lukashenko with declared the winner of controversial presidential election on Wednesday European Union rejected the election results and the EU is expected to soon impose sanctions and individuals connected to the and the repression of protesters. This is Charles Michael the president of the European, Council. A message zooey clear stuff the violence and we don't accept the impunity. In Russia opposition, Activists Alexina volley fell ill and collapsed during a flight from Siberia to Moscow. Forcing the plane to make an emergency landing home square he was rushed to a hospital and placed on a ventilator doctor said, the forty four year old Kremlin critic remains in serious condition passengers say Nevada only became violently ill after he was photographed drinking tea at an airport cafe shortly before boarding the flight raising the prospect he wish poisoned. In the Gaza. Strip. Israeli. Tanks shelled Hamas positions overnight and ninth consecutive night of violence Palestinians continued to launch incendiary balloons into Israeli territory in the occupied West Bank thousands of Palestinians rallied Wednesday to protest. Israel's agreement normalizing ties with the United Arab Emirates in a deal brokered by the trump administration at least three Palestinians were wounded at Israeli troops fired tear-gas. Joe Biden's campaign has disavowed. Palestinian American Activists Linda Sarsour after she appeared at the Muslim delegates and allies assembly site event at the. Democratic. National Convention on Tuesday the Biden Campaign Attacks Sir. Sore over support for the BBS movement which seeks to boycott sanctioning divest from Israel over its treatment of Palestinians and it's illegal occupation of the West. Bank. Biden campaign spokesperson Andrew Bates told CNN quote Joe Biden has been a strong supporter of Israel and a vehement opponent of antisemitism is entire life and he obviously condense her views and opposes beady s as does the democratic platform she has no role in the Biden campaign. Whatsoever he said on Wednesday the DNC aired a video titled America Rising Women's suffrage to women's March featuring footage of the movement that. Linda Sir Sore co-founded she tweeted in response quote when the DNC uses footage of my Labor at the women's march to make themselves seem relevant while throwing my communities under the bus. It can't make this up. She said meanwhile, Audie Barkan the American Israeli lawyer with terminal LS who was a featured speaker at the Democratic National Convention on Tuesday called the Biden campaigns attack on Sarsour vile and dishonest statement. debarking tweeted quote Linda is a fierce advocate for justice and freedom and a leading anti-racist and organizer against antisemitism the Biden campaign mustard tracked and apologize Audi. Barking. tweeted. President. Trump has openly embraced supporters of the far right conspiracy theory queueing on describing them as people that love our country. He also refused to question a central plank of conspiracy theory when questioned by a reporter at the White House. Theory this belief that you are secretly saving the world from this satanic cold of pedophile and cannibals. Does that sound like something you are behind? I haven't I haven't heard that but. Is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? If I can help save the world from problems willing to do it. Meanwhile, facebook has removed nearly eight hundred Cunanan groups as part of a broader purge facebook also remove several prominent anti-fascist and anarchist pages including ones connected to the sites. Crime. Think Dot Com and going down dot org which criticized the purge saying quote suppressing the voices of those who seek to protect their communities from institutional white supremacist violence is an intentional decision to normalize violence as long as the ones employing it hold institutional power unquote. The Supreme Court said Wednesday. It will hear the trump administration's challenge to the affordable. Care Act on November tenth exactly one week after the presidential election the Justice Department's continuing its case to have the Obama era healthcare law struck down unconstitutional even as an estimated twenty, seven, million Americans lost their employer based health insurance during the coronavirus crisis a ruling expected sometime next spring. In. Ohio the Cincinnati Reds Major League Baseball team has suspended veteran broadcaster Thom Brennaman after he was caught on a hot mic, making an anti gay slur Brennan's comment on Fox. Sports Ohio came after a commercial break during a doubleheader Wednesday between the reds and the Kansas city royals later in the broadcast Brennaman, issued this apology before handing over his duties to another play by play announcer. Earlier tonight. That I guess Out over the year that I am deeply. Ashamed. In a statement, Cincinnati's baseball team said quote the reds organization is devastated by the horrific homophobic remark. And those are some of the headlines But this last headline. The State of Michigan has reportedly reached a deal to pay out about six hundred million dollars to victims of the water crisis in Flint. The crisis began in two thousand fourteen when Flint's elected emergency manager appointed by then Michigan Governor Rick Snyder switch the source of the city's drinking water in order. To save money the move has been linked to at least twelve deaths from an outbreak of legionnaires disease, as well as widespread lead poisoning and residents including many children tens of thousands of flint residents are expected to be eligible to receive money from the settlement and those are some of the headlines. This is democracy. Now Democracy now dot org we're breaking with. I mean he goodman in New York with nermeen shake sheltering at home. Hi, nermeen. Good Morning Amy, and welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world. Well. We begin our show with the Democratic National Convention California Senator Kamala Harris has accepted the Democratic vice presidential nomination becoming the first woman of color to run a major party. Presidential ticket harasses the daughter of immigrants and Indian mother and Jamaican father. She accepted the nomination on the third night of the Virtual Democratic National Convention night filled with the voices of women speaking about gun violence, immigration, climate, change, domestic violence, and more early in the evening former congresswoman Gabby giffords gave her longest speech since she was shot in the head nearly ten years ago during a constituent event in Tucson Arizona. Once came easily today I struggle speak. But. I have not lost my voice. American. NEEDS ALL US to speak out. Even when you have to fight to find the words. We are crossroads. We can lead to shoot and continue. Or we can act. Emma Gonzales who survived the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and Parkland. Florida. Narrated a video about gun violence. People affected by everyday gun violence have to walk by the street corner where their best friend brother their mother their nephew were they. Themselves were shot. I'm life goes on and on as if we all haven't just washed. Get put in the great. The whole point of what I'm saying here is until one of us or all of us stand up and say I can't do this anymore. I can't sit by and watch the news treat these shootings like acts, of God. Gun Violence isn't just going to stop until there's a force fighting harder against it I'm going to do something to prevent it. A number of youth climate activists were also featured prominently during the Democratic National Convention Wednesday night. My name is Scott Denso I'm an athlete Dina and I'm a climate activist. I grew up in a low income neighborhood. Pollution rates are often higher than wealthier areas and a lot of kids have asthma switching to renewable energy lean cleaner air better health and a steady income for folks in neighborhoods like mine. Because solar pb installers and winter right tights are some of the fastest growing jobs in the country and Joe Biden's Thomas transformative. He knows his saving the planet isn't just a challenge to overcome. It's an opportunity for a better way of life. The democratic. Convention also featured video of an eleven year old girl reading a letter she wrote to Donald Trump. Fear Donald Trump my name is Estella I. AM eleven years old. My mom is my best friend. She came to America as a teenager over twenty years ago without papers in search of a better life and She married my dad who served our country has marine in South America Africa in Iraq. My mom worked hard and pay taxes. And the Obama Administration told her, she could stay. My Dad taught you would protect military families. So we voted for you. Dell sixteen Mr. President when he says he won't vote for you again after what you did to our family, the wife of the US Marine veteran was deported to Mexico instead of protecting us you tour our world apart. I Need a president who will bring people together, not tear them apart. Sincerely, estate along that was eleven year old Stella Juarez, the eighteen-year-old musical superstar. Billy eyelash performed Wednesday night at the virtual convention urging the nation to vote. You don't need me to tell you things are a mess. Donald trump is destroying our country and everything we care about. We need leaders who will solve problems like climate change and covert not deny them. Leaders who will fight against the stomach racism and inequality, and that starts by voting for someone who understands how much is at stake someone who's building team shares our values it starts with voting against. Donald trump and for Joe Biden. Silence is not an option and we cannot sit this out. We all have to vote like our lives and the world depend on it because they do. That's eighteen year old musical superstar Billy Bush, the Democrats two sixteen presidential nominee Hillary. Clinton, also spoke Wednesday night. And don't forget. Joe and Carmela can win by three million votes and still lose take it from me. So we need numbers overwhelming. So trump can't sneak or steal his way to Victory Senator Elizabeth Warren, who ran against Biden and Harrison. The primary spoke from an Early Childhood Center in Springfield Massachusetts three colorful letter blocks stood out behind her they spelled out beyond the initials of black lives matter. We build infrastructure like roads and bridges and communication systems so that people can work that infrastructure helps us all because it keeps our economy going. It's time to recognize that childcare is part of the basic infrastructure of this nation. It's infrastructure for families. Joe and Kamala will make high quality childcare affordable for every family make preschool universal and raise the wages of every childcare worker. Former President Barack Obama spoke just before. Kamala. Harris accepted the nomination on Wednesday night speaking from the Museum of the American Revolution in Philadelphia. Obama warned president trump is a threat to American democracy. Said in the Oval Office with both of the men who are running for president. I never expected that my successor would embrace my vision. Or continue my policies. I did hope for the sake of our country. That Donald Trump might show some interest in taking the job seriously. That he might come to feel the weight of the office. And discover some reverence for the democracy that had been placed in his care. But he never did. For close to four years now he has shown no interest in putting in the work. No interest in finding common ground no interest in using the awesome power of his office to help anyone but himself and his friends. No interest in treating the presidency as anything but one more reality show that he can use to get the attention he craves. Donald. Trump hasn't grown into the job. Because he can't. And the consequences of that failure are severe. ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY THOUSAND AMERICANS DEAD Millions of jobs gone. Well those top taken more than ever. Worst. Impulses unleashed. Are Proud reputation around the world badly diminished. And our democratic institutions threatened like never before join common-law will restore our standing in the world and as we've learned from this pandemic that matters. Joe knows the world and the world knows him. He knows that are true. Strength comes from setting an example. The world wants to follow. A nation that stands with democracy not, dictatorship. A nation that can inspire. And mobilise others to overcome threats like climate, change and terrorism. Poverty and disease. But more than anything. What I know about Joe what I know about Carmela. Is actually care about every American. And they cared deeply about this democracy. Believe that in a democracy. The. Right to vote is sacred and we should be Mahindra easier for people to cast their ballots not harder. Believed that no one. Including the president. Is above the law. And that no public officials including the president. Should use their office to enrich themselves or their supporters. Understand. That in this democracy, but commander in chief does not use the men and women of our military who are willing to risk everything to protect our nation. As political props to deploy against peaceful protesters on our own soil. Understand that political opponents un-american just because they disagree with you. A free press isn't the enemy. But the way we hold officials accountable. That our ability to work together to solve big problems like a pandemic. Depend on a fidelity to facts and science and logic. and not just making stuff up. This president in those in power those who benefit from keeping things the way they are. They are counting on your citizen. They know they can't win you over with their policies. So they're hoping to make it as hard as possible for you to vote. And to convince you that your vote does not matter. That is how they win. That is how they get to keep making decisions that affect your life. And the lives of the people you love. That's how the economy keep getting skewed to the wealthy and well-connected. Power Health Systems. We'll let more people fall through the cracks. That's how a democracy withers. Until it's no democracy at all. And we cannot let that happen. Not let them take away your power. Do not let them take away your democracy. Former president, Obama speaking at the Democratic National National Convention virtually. When we come back, we'll hear Kamla Harissa she becomes the first woman of color to be a major party's vice presidential nominee stay with us. Ayden dilemma from the Soundtrack to the movie confirmation stirring actress Carrie Washington is Anita Hill Carrie Washington hosted last night's virtual Democratic National Convention. This is democracy. Now we are breaking with convention I. Mean He Goodman with Nermeen shape senator? Kamala Harris accepted the Democratic vice presidential nomination Wednesday night becoming the first woman of color to run a major party presidential ticket Harrison the daughter of immigrants and Indian mother and Jamaican father this part of her acceptance speech. I'm here. Is a testament to the dedication of generations before me. Women and men who believed so fiercely. In the promise of equality liberty and justice for all. This week marks the one hundredth anniversary of the passage of the nineteenth amendment, and we celebrate the women who fought for that, right Yet so many of the black women who helped secure that victory were still prohibited from voting long after its ratification. But they were undeterred. Without fanfare or recognition they organized and testified and rallied and marched and fought not just for their vote but for a seat at the table. These women and the generations that followed worked to make democracy and Opportunity Real. In the lives of all of us who followed. They paved the way for the trail blazing leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. and. These women inspired us to pick up the torch and fight on. Women like Mary Church Terrell. Mary Cloyd within Fannie Lou Hamer, and Diane Nash. Constance Baker Motley and the Great Shirley Chisholm. We're not often taught their stories. But as Americans, we all stand on their shoulders. And there's another woman. Whose name isn't known? WHO STORY ISN'T SHARED Another woman. Whose shoulders I stand on? And that's my mother. Shammala go pollen. Harris. She came here from India at age nineteen to pursue her dream of curing cancer. At the University of California Berkeley, she met my Father Donald Harris who had come from Jamaica to study economics. They fell in love in that most American way. While marching together for justice in the civil rights movement of the nineteen sixties in the streets of Oakland and Berkeley. I got a stroller XIV view of people getting into what the Great John Lewis called. Good trouble. When I was five, my parents split and my mother raised US mostly on her own. Like. So many mothers she worked around the clock to make it work packing lunches before we woke up and paying bills after we went to bed helping with homework at the kitchen table and shuttling us to church for choir practice. She made it look easy though it never was. My mother instilled in my sister Mayan me the values that would chart. The course of our lives. She raised us to be proud strong black women. And she raised us to know and be proud of our Indian heritage. taught us to be conscious and compassionate about the struggles of all people. To believe public service is a noble cause and the fight for justice is a shared responsibility. That led me to become a lawyer. A district attorney attorney general and a United States senator. And at every step of the way. I've been guided by the words. I. Spoke from the First Time I. In a courtroom. Kamala Harris for the people. I have fought for children and survivors of sexual assault. I. Fought Against Transnational Criminal Organizations I took on the biggest banks and help take down one of the biggest for profit colleges. I, know a Predator when I see one. My mother taught me that service to others gives life purpose and meaning. And how I wish she were here tonight. But I know she's looking down on me from above. I keep thinking about that twenty five year old Indian woman all of five feet tall. Who gave birth to me at Kaiser Hospital in Oakland California. On that day, she probably could have never imagined that I would be standing before you now and speaking these words. I accept your nomination for Vice President of the United States of America. During her Democratic National Convention Acceptance Address Senator Kamala Harris addressed the corona virus crisis naming president trump directly. Donald Trump's failure of leadership has cost lives and livelihoods. If your apparent struggling with your child's remote learning. Or. You're a teacher struggling on the other side of that screen you know. What we're doing right now is not working. and. We are a nation that is grieving. Grieving the loss of life. The loss of jobs, the last of opportunities. The last of normalcy. And yes, the loss of certainty. And while this virus touches us all. We gotta be honest. It is an equal opportunity offender. Black, Latino and indigenous people are suffering and dying disproportionately. And this is not a coincidence it is the effect of structural racism. Of inequities in education and technology healthcare and Housing Job Security and transportation. The injustice in reproductive and mature healthcare. In the excessive use of force by police. And in our broader criminal justice system. Virus. It has no is. And yet, it knows exactly how we see each other. And how we treat each other. And let's be clear. There is no vaccine? For Racism. We've gotTa, do the work. For George Floyd. For Briana Taylor. For the lives of too many others to name. For our children. And for all of us. We've got to do the work to fulfill that promise of equal justice under law. Because here's the thing none of us are free. Until all of us are free. So we're at an inflection point. The constant chaos. Leaves. US Adrift. The incompetence. Makes US feel afraid. The callousness makes us feel alone. It's a lot. And here's the thing. We can do better and deserve so much more. We must elect a president who will bring something different. Something better. And do the important work. A president, who will bring all of us together Black White Latino. Asian indigenous. To achieve the future we collectively want. We Must Alette. Joe. Biden senator. Comma. Harris accepting the nomination for vice president of the United States at the Democratic National Convention. She's the first indian-american and first black woman to be nominated for Vice President UNIM- major party ticket. For more. We're joined by human rights, lawyer abolitionist and writer Derek Cornell columnist for the Guardian She's joining us from Washington DC Derek. Thanks so much for joining us. Especially as you recover from cove it can you respond to this historic The first African American Caribbean American Indian American. To be on the first woman of color to be on a major party presidential ticket. Derek. Pronounce. Yes of course. Thank you for having me. I mean all as night we heard and we saw stories from women who were deeply emotional because they finally had the chance of someone who looks like them. You know I remember way back in my college dorm room watching them President Obama's secure the nomination ultimate come president. We ever cry being like, Wow, this is you know this could be mean the future. So I deeply understand all of the excitement around. There's one who stands at the intersection of so many identities you know women are excited because sharp because she's witty because she's a woman of color who's been tapped to service second in command, and so I mean, it's truly a historic moment for lots of those reasons. Dirk though I'd like to turn to your the piece that you wrote most recently for the Guardian. Why black progressive women feel torn about Kamala Harris you write in the piece progressives will have to defend the California senators personal identity while maneuvering against her political identity. Could you explain what you mean by that? Of course I mean Kamla. Harris she graduated from Howard University in a prestigious HEC. You DC right down the world. You know I'm as amy said, she's A. Woman with to make an Indian heritage we'll see her break so many barriers and we know that with cinch in and attention that comes women of Color in office, even walking down the street, but particularly in a public spotlight it unfortunately in this country has invited sexist and racist and xenophobic responses, and so we've already have seen some of that with a birther conspiracies that are being used against her right now, which is last night he spoke to the exact hospital where she was born in. So that's like in the other end is that you know women of color particularly those who progressive progressive black women are also frustrated. Frustrated by this narrative that the lack of indifference in America India with Barack Obama and started up with Donald Trump. You know are frustrated because of her record as a prosecutor, her refusal to investigate or prosecute police officers her Pfizer up whole while convictions supportive. The death penalty as Attorney General I mean the list unfortunately goes on. So when she says is not you know I know a Predator when I see one, it's ironic. Because one of the one of the wrongful convictions that she fought, the whole was based on a technicality of someone who is serving seven years in prison who might be innocent. So it was just you know unfortunate that you have to protect someone because of their identity against this notion that their hands are going to be tied because they're a person call Laura black or a woman or child of immigrants while at the same time. You care about the massive black people, the masses of poor people, the masses of immigrants in this country, you know that you have to speak truth and the honest about their record and be critical of them in the public spotlight. So that's what that's what we have to navigate right now. We're not. We're sorry we're not hearing nermeen right now but let's go to vice president pence who responded to Joe Biden's choice of his running mate, of course Senator Kamala Harris. Look. Joe Biden of the Democratic Party of been overtaken by the radical left. So given their promises of higher taxes, open borders, socialized medicine and abortion on demand. It's it's no surprise that he chose. Senator Harris to be his running back. Gary Cooper now Swan plays Oh of course of course. So it forces the Democrats to play political doubled edge. So they have to make commonly Harry's left enough to bring him progressive but also sure that she isn't pulling the party too far left and there's an unfortunate tactic that works you know. So my former Professor Cornell West says, you know I'm a part of the radical you know calmly. As moderate and so this tactic from pence's China to you know use this radical left idea to push the party further. Right and it's working frankly is why Republicans were able to speak longer than representative alissandria Cossio Cortez. To a firm that you know the Democrats can reach across the aisle it affirmative. Is, not moderate. It affirms Dole by saying that he believes that police have more money as people hidden to hidden. Ted So demand that departments all over defunding. You know. So this is a tactic that's working and there's no way that camera here's the part of the radical west of anyone as part of the radical left. It's probably Shirley Chisholm who calmly here is invoke last night who was one of the first people who that was endorsed by the Black Panther Party right. So the first time the Black Panther party engages with electoral politics is endorsed Surly Chisholm you know and so it's ironic that we are excited about the women who pave the way, but we don't actually talk about the the record of more people rather see me talking about their actual records, their beliefs are policies. And know not not by any measure she part of the radical work and it's unfortunate. Well. I. Mean the DNC strategy seems to be mostly a trying to get conservatives, Republicans and centrists. To Support Biden. Do you think that the DNC has done enough a to get the support of the more progressive wing of the Party? Absolutely nine, you know exactly I just gave of that in the middle of a movement against police violence you have Joe Biden coming out and saying that he believes police received more funding and it's touting community police. Now fail vague reform that we know at this point is not work. You know in the middle of a of a pandemic where black and Brown people poor people dying and disproportionate rates you have you know don't buy it it. You know doubling down on his refusal to support. Excuse me universal healthcare and so all of the reasons why people are hidden streets, all the reasons why people are suffering we see a doubling down here. No president. I'm tired Vice President Joe Biden. Rather you know decide to continue to. Not Cancel like all student. Day. So all of these policies that people have been demanding to push the party further to the left to say that we actually should give a care about the people who are suffering. We see a doubling down on the moderate you know positions of the party just unfortunate Derek I wanted to ask you about The Congress member from New York Alexandra Customer Cortez being given sixty seconds to speak in response to that news AOC. tweeted a poem by Benjamin E. Mays I only have a minute sixty seconds in it forced upon me I did not choose it but I know that I must use it give account if I abuse it suffer if I lose it only a tiny little minute but eternity is in it. It was also a poem that was cited by Elijah Cummings? When he wants Scott Sixty seconds the late Baltimore Congress member. This does go to the sidelining of the progressives and even Audi. Who is the American? Israeli attorney. Who has a less spoke? He was highlighted like Alexandria Cossio Cortes. But he who is known as a Medicare for all activists demanding. Medicare. For All for everyone in this country never actually used those words and ultimately yesterday he came out in support of the Biden campaigns attack on Linda Sarsour and it was the American. Israeli attorney Audie Barkan who is featured who said be that the DNC must retract their attack on this Palestinian American human rights activist. Yeah. You know it's unfortunate. Obviously one of the points talking points off overshadowed. All the Celtics. Calmly. With Netanyahu. So she knows a Predator where she sees wants his ironic that that comment is towards trump but we know that we the United States has a long record in history of support, a violent leaders all across all across the globe, and so I was very excited to hear representatives what Cossio Cortez speak I was happy this use words like colonization she spoke to the violet origins and violent struggle of this country and so yes, progresses are brought out to come and celebrate in two. Days into show all of the cultural factors like the progressive movement. But when actually comes to progressive policy, the Democrats are just choosing to the contains fall short the sacrifice it. So when Comma here was in his speech says, you know these these black women pave the way not only to vote. But to have a seat at the table, she somehow neglected to mention that Fannie Lou Hamer not only where the table rejected two seats at the table because you said. We'd come all this way to settle for the lackluster. To participate you know Shirley Chisholm was highly critical of the lack luster platform of the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. So it's important. We talk and we acknowledged that history because it's not just about them being I is not just about voting. It's about the history of progressive women in this country take considerable risk at pushing this country for, and that's a tradition that we all should be in. Cornell very quickly before we conclude, you've thirty seconds. You are at the moment recovering from the corona virus which has also been featured prominently they've talked about coronavirus pandemic during the DNC top your experience. Sure you know I've been at this. Thank God that I at the end of recovery. I've the last week has been just a remarkable turnaround but I want was they sick I had to go to the hospital I had all the neurological symptoms I didn't have any of the respiratory symptoms. I lost my sense of smell, my sister tastes I was having terrible headaches and numbness on the left side of my body. I had to undergo cat scan and blow working. At this point, I actually can't even smell one hundred percent again but most of my energy's back and I'm very very excited to the angleton chase my babies around around the house goes unfortunate that now the coronavirus. Is Not. Something that is evil. It's the inability of people to act. That is evil, right? It's a long history that has made black people in this country have pre existing conditions those decision making those policy. This isn't the that's evil that we're we're experiencing the coronavirus way that we are not simple because of Donald trump even he is largely responsible it is because it's for over. Four Hundred Years, we have created environmental conditions, economic conditions, environmental conditions that have made people more vulnerable, and that's what progress associate not too. Well, Derek per now we wanna thank you so much for being with US human rights, lawyer Abolitionist, and writer columnist for the Guardian linked your latest piece why black progressive women feel torn about Kamala Harris, and I hope you have a very speedy recovery. Up Comma Harris is not the first black woman to run for vice president we will speak historian Kisha Blaine about how that distinction belongs to the journalist and political activist Charlotta Bass in nineteen fifty to stay with us. Is. include. was clear. Ryan and Revolution Cecile King Gay. This is democracy now breaking with convention I mean, Goodman with nermeen shake tonight Joe Biden will accept the Democratic Party's nomination for president after Kamla Harris became the first Indian American and first black woman to be nominated for vice president on a major party ticket in her historic address Harris paid homage to the women who came before her. These women inspired us to pick up the torch and fight on. Women like Mary Church Terrell? Mary Cloyd with them, Fannie Lou Hamer and Diane Nash. Constance Baker Motley, and the great surely Chisholm. We're not often taught their stories. But. As Americans, we all stand on their shoulders as many historians have noted Senator Comma Harris is not the first black woman to run for Vice President that distinction belongs to the journalists and political activists are a lot of Bass who was the editor of the California Eagle. For nearly thirty years. One of the country's oldest black newspapers which covered women's suffrage police brutality. The Ku Klux Klan and discriminatory hiring and housing practices more than a decade before the Voting Rights Act was signed into law. A lot of Bass joined the Progressive Party ticket in nineteen fifty two on an anti-racist platform that called for fair housing and equal access to healthcare basser alongside presidential candidate Vincent Hallinan in a long shot bid and they lost Dwight Eisenhower but. She campaign with the slogan winner lose we win by raising the issues for more on Bass and the black women who cleared a path for Harris to be VP pick as Harris pointed out we're joined by Kisha, Blaine associate professor of History University of Pittsburgh author of set the world on fire black nationalist women and the global struggle for freedom also president of the. African American Intellectual History Society Professor Blaine joined a panel. Wednesday at the DNC on progress and the path forward that looked at the unsung heroes of suffrage and block women's political power her forthcoming book until I'm free. Fannie Lou Hamer's vision of America. Welcome to democracy. Now professor it's great to have you with us. Can you talk about the significance of Kamala Harris being? Nominated on the and accepting the nomination for vice president of the Democratic Party and the people on whose shoulders she stands. Where thank you so much for having me I think it's important. Emphasize the fact that Kamala Harris is certainly standing on the shoulders of all the events she mentioned last night but also standing on the shoulders of Charlotta Bass as you pointed out and it's somewhat unfortunate that she didn't mention ask because because as you pointed out a bass in fact, the first black woman to run for vice president on this took place in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, two in the state of California on the progressive. Party ticket in so many ways. Her exclusion last night from Harris's speech I think signals the way we often do sideline black radical politics and really just to echo something that Derek mentioned earlier how? Leftist in the movement tend to be sidelined and and I'm not suggesting that the exclusion of bass was intentional but I do think it is unfortunate and would love to hear more people acknowledging the history and the fundamental work that lasted a long before a camera. Harris why don't you tell us that history? Well one of the things that we know about Charlotta. Bass. Is that she truly a gauged in what can best be described as pragmatic activism and I say that because this is someone who shifted who moved between organizations a someone who was literally at the same time that she was a leader in the end. She was a leader in the Universal Negro improvement. Association anyone who studies history understands just the complexity of of being able to function in two organizations that were radically different even as they were equally committed to black progress. And then on top of that. Moved from supporting the Republican Party. Then supporting the Democratic Party and then abandoning both of them when she came to the conclusion that they were simply not doing enough not doing enough for black people not doing enough for women not do for marginalized groups and she put her hands and she tried a new party, the Progressive Party and I think just really thinking about the ways that Charlotta bass moved in between organizations shifted. A parties throughout her lifetime speaks to her unwavering commitment to advancing black politics. You'd never. Allowed herself to be a tied into one particular group or even one particular perspective. She truly engaging pragmatic activism believing that she would do anything anything possible to improve the conditions of people. At first Acacia Land, could you also explain some of the issues with which she was most preoccupied from police brutality to media stereotyping of African Americans. Absolutely. She was deeply. Deeply committed to challenging racism and discrimination as you mentioned even the media. One of the things that she did in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifteen. So this is very early in her career in California was to speak out against the film birth of a nation and she tried to get people I will certainly should try to pull the film from being shown publicly. She was not successful in doing that. But what she did do was point out the problems with the film she was able to rally the community. She openly denounced the film and I think her efforts. Really captured the way that she was concerned with not only. You know certainly, there's aspects of black politics, but she was concerned with how black people being represented on screen and and as a journalist she understood the power of words she understood the power of imagery and I think that's just one example of how she was. Truly. Think a fierce advocate for black people and she was really bold She confronted the KKK, she address police violence and brutality, and her bonus got her in trouble on. It's not surprising that she was served by the FBI because she was someone who simply did not sit on the sidelines she confronted every challenge she saw and she tried to come up with solutions to fix the problems. obsessively, and why was she a branded a communist? Well, she was branded a communist for the same reason that people like WB. Boys, Paul Robeson, and even Marcus Garvey earlier had been been branded as a problem for the United States i. She is someone who certainly I embrace a leftist politics and ideas, and ultimately she posed the challenge. The truth of the matter is she didn't even need to embrace any kind of radical platform to be brand of the communist at the time because in the end to use the. Term Communist within that context was simply to try to smear. So one to able to to say listen this person is is not American and and what we know from history is that the people who were branded the communist whether they embrace communist views or not were ultimately individuals who stood up who stood up in the face of injustice who confronted racism and discrimination and every time they were vocal every time they decided they were simply not going to accept black people. Being mistreated in his country, all of a sudden they were quote unquote a communists in these last few seconds that we have. Your next book is on Fanny Lou. Hamer, can you talk about her level of activism and you struggle you see now in the Democratic Party of the Progressives on the establishment even as history is being made with Kamala Harris being the first woman of color to be nominated as vice presidential candidate. It was truly wonderful to hear a Harris Evoke Sanity with Hamer I've been deeply. Invested and certainly in Hamer's ideas and finishing a book on this topic and one of the things that I think is important to emphasize. Is that Hamer ran for office ran for office three times I i. think that's important because we don't talk about it generally, we don't talk about it and the reason we don't talk about it is because She was unsuccessful but I'm of the mindset. Even those stories. We have to know and those stories are powerful because a fan of Hamer was unsuccessful. I shall have a bass was unsuccessful, but it doesn't mean that their stories don't matter and it certainly doesn't mean that we can't talk about their efforts because what is key here really about winning or losing. It's about how these women ultimately rose to the occasion. Professor keys should Blaine. We thank you so much for joining us. With Nur meet shape. Stay safe.

Goodman Senator Kamala Harris president Donald Trump Joe Biden United States President Obama Vice President America DNC Democratic Party Oakland California senator Fannie Lou Hamer Derek attorney New York City Democrats vice president
A Very Special Juneteenth Episode 2021-06-18

The Takeaway

55:29 min | 3 months ago

A Very Special Juneteenth Episode 2021-06-18

"The takeaway is brought to you by progressive. Have you tried the name your price tool yet. It works just the way it sounds. You tell progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. It's easy to start a quote and you'll be able to find a rate that works for you. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive get your quote today at progressive dot com and see why four out of five new auto customers recommend progressive progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Wnyc studios is supported by forward waiting months for ten minute doctor's appointment healthcare is backwards. Luckily forward is here to clear things up with on-demand access to great care backed by the latest tech and top rated doctors learn more at go. Forward dot com. That's go forward dot com welcome to the takeaways. June teeth special. i'm melissa harris. Perry and juneteenth for those who don't know marks the day that enslave people in texas found out. They were free two years after president. Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation. Juneteenth me marquesa celebration of black culture and freedom and with the celebration comes food and friends and family and music. The entire month of june happens to be black music month. So let's listen and enjoy say you modify play you something real quick. I don't know the last time you went on an impulse. You embarrassed data. The this'll be easy. I promise okay if you're a black woman of a certain age than you already know. That was lorenzo tate as darius love hall kicking it to nia long's character nina moseley in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven's love jones now. A lot of us have been revisiting. Love jones in recent weeks. Thanks it's release on netflix. This month now. The film was an artistic intervention in the nineteen ninety s a hard departure from the boys in the hood news city version of black urban life. It offered us a holy artistic rendering of african american life and love in chicago. Complete with stepper set spoken-word and philosophical debates at house parties but the most important part of love jones the music. It's not important but they call me brother to the night right. Now i'm the blooming of death. China become a folder. From charlie parker to dionne farris lauren hill to the lincoln center orchestra. Child it is the music that tells this story and storytelling is what music does and it so happens. That june is black music month. An opportunity to read those stories laid down in the tracks of black artists both past and present. How many what month this is. Somebody said june right on. This is black music month. Yeah right. I'm mr president. That's president jimmy. Carter in nineteen seventy nine declaring june as music month and for decades black musicians producers and others have shaped the musical landscape of this country and the globe for maps to the underground railroad hidden in the lyrics of freedom songs. The pain baked into the blues of improvisation and collaboration written by jazz. The struggle of the streets narrated by hip-hop. I'm melissa harris. Perry in for tanzania vegas and we start today with celebration and discussion of black music month here on the takeaway for more on this. We're joined by nabil ayers writer general manager of the record label for a nabil. Welcome to the show. Thank you nice to be here and also with us is mark. Anthony neal the james b. Duke distinguished professor of african african american studies at duke university and host of the podcast. Left of black market is so great to have you with us was melissa. Oh it's so good to talk with you mark. I am going to start with you. I want to start with the origins of black music month. Where did this come from kenny. Gamble it is deanna williams who still on radio in philadelphia and it's ed right Wanting to find a moment to take advantage of the popularity of black music taking signals from what country music country music industry had been doing They approached president. Carter you know. Can we get some sort of acknowledgment. And we heard his great words in the beginning as they all sat there in the white house lawn having it kinda took food picnic if you will Listening to soul music And you know for someone. Like kenny gamble. And and you know who's the founder of philadelphians national records would leon hof It was an opportunity not only to talk about the popularity of black music but really the double down on the idea of the black music industry. As an important economic cog to black americans in america generally it to acknowledge its broader his of the impact of black news. So i love that sort of place that you begin with us. I have to say when. I watched that video with president carter. Just it was so high seventies. It was really Fascinating to watch. I want to come to you because part of how we entered into this conversation on the team and wanting to talk about this today. Was this piece that you did for pitch fork Really asking what black music month means now so in talking with Artis for pitch for. What did you find that black music month means now. I'm it was a really interesting project. Because i went into it. You know my background is that i used to. I was an intern at a record company. A long time ago and then i worked in and later owned a record store and You know in the nineties and two thousands lack music month really existed largely record stores because that was where people bought music that was really the only place. So i was very familiar with it and now i work for a record company and i notice that every year and i just kind of assumed that everyone knew it but when i saw the every year it's a presidential proclamation that black music month exists in a celebrated which is pretty incredible and that started with Bill clinton i believe in two thousand but when donald trump tweeted it last year in twenty twenty. I was just so surprised to see. That was still a thing and that he was doing. it's online. There's a very long letter from him. That i doubt he actually wrote or even read but it celebrating calling out certain artist talking about how important black music in america and so that made me really think about it and get into it and my plan was to talk to a younger generation of artists newer artists and artist of all ages. Kind of learn what. Their thoughts are on black music month. Forty two years in. But what i found is that and this isn't true across the board. But a lot of the people i talk to especially the younger people just weren't familiar with it. And you know deanna. Williams who i spoke to. It was clear to say that. Every artist i talked to that wasn't familiar. There are many who are. And i know that's true but it was interesting talking to these people who weren't familiar so the pieces focus really kind of shifted to all the interesting things i learned about that artists are doing that are in the same spirit of sort of not only mobilizing the economics but just talking about the broader sense of what black music is and getting it out there whether or not. It's officially associated with black music month or so. I wanna go to exactly that idea. Mark let me come back to you for a second. What is black music. How much time. I'm glad that you laugh. I know each other going back. So i think most people generally think of it in turns of music that's produced by black people that are that's produced in what we recognize As black nico idiots But of course that's complicated right because black genius it's spread out in so many different genres of music and in many cases genres of music of people. That aren't aware right so we just don't know about the black imprint. For instance on classical music the same way that we understand that imprint and jazz or blues and rb and things of that nature and then it gets a little you know interesting when you might have for instance white artists who happen to be very good at performing black music and black idiots in ways that you know i think about boss. Skaggs has been a great example of this right. There are people who might know just right now when i tell them that box gags white invented so because he sounds as though he makes black us so okay. Let's pause here for a second. Because one of the pieces that i found interesting in in the conversations you were having with artists now is exactly kind of that. Point that on the one hand there are the The history that i told sort of the the freedom songs gospel you know blues. Who recognize those but you were talking with artists who were in other spaces who wanted to also lay claim to that as part of the black music tradition right. I mean one of the really interesting conversations. I had of many was with angel. But the we'd who's a clarinetist and composer who lives in chicago and right. I was on zoom with her. And you know sort of to illustrate that point. She told me that she'd just been on a zoom with twelve black bassoon assists and twelve black. I guess called twelve. Black the sooners right through incredible and she was talking a lot about how in the classical world and the composition world. There's a huge black presence but most people just aren't aware of it and and likewise again. I learned a lot just talking to people about of course electronic music where we're not just one. The was the first black person this year to win the dance electric album grammy and song. Grammy too. I believe just kind of incredible. But you know dance. Electronic music is a genre that is generally a byproduct of funk and house and bisco and all these more traditionally black genres. So there's definitely a lot of that happening. Rock music of course country music with mickey guidance. This year yeah. There's definitely exists so but there's this other sort of maybe the the the we don't want to call it the dark side the nefarious side here mark. Which is Not necessarily want artists who are performing what we might traditionally think of his black music and are widely loved and accepted by black folks whether we know their own racial category or not but what about the elvis's of the The story of black music those who drew from black music but did not cite black music. I think that's another reason. Why black music months. Oh history of the colleague. Guthrie randy Who describes it as a black music. History month right hasn't as an opportunity to double down on the broader issue We know from the nineteen fifty s. Right there were you more than the elvis's Who were involved in. And what we know is cover movement where white artists specifically would record black music and and dumb it down right white it down if you will. So everyone knows you know. Elvis presley's hound dog but most folks have never heard big mama thornton's original version of hound dog would sound so dramatically different intermittently black. You know as opposed to the elvis record Some cases right folks will say well now. This is a great time for folks to acknowledge that the african american impact on black music for folks get the recognition but that recognition sometime comes in the in the vacuum of the economic realities that so many people were able to generate so many millions of dollars on black musical labor and black musical talent. That black artists never got the opportunity to see. And that was why. This was so important for kenny gamble. And leon huff and philadelphia international records to make that particular connection between the popularity of black music and the economic role that it plays in black communities. So let me come to you on that. Because one of the folks she talked to said well black music green right. That was the i think was the official tagline of the first black music month in nineteen seventy nine which you know was very overt and obvious statement to you. Know they were not trying to be settled about saying that. There is a lot of money generated by black artists playing music and we need to acknowledge that and does that green though show up in black communities or is it primarily enriching other folks that i mean. That's a tough question to answer. I know and mark. You probably know more about this than i do but i. I know that part of the black music month. The reason part of began because they wanted to funnel more of that money black back to black businesses Black record labels of course record stores but the the the question. I'm not sure i'm qualified to answer. We heard from a caller who mentions how black music tells the story and the song she mentioned does just that. This is from new orleans matteo song this week sunny. The most is Life back acn. Joe joe saying well you hear that song. Abby think about all of them brothers they'd be up in angola and so i think that's sewn helps me imagine how to get to that point. You know that song say what happened to my match up playing ish to go down this way. You know blackmail. The family of three rob the my destiny so he already felt the systemic -ness of racism as all black man and then him down a path of life and he's sitting there wondering tell me how do i get nice and if that ain't story to help you understand what he's young brothers be going and headed. I don't know where the listen let me tell you. Just hearing my people speak in our nola sound of voice reminds me of how black music infuses even the ways that we speak and mark. I want to come to you on this. Because i've been missing new orleans because of covid nineteen a pandemic that disrupted so many things. What did he do to the music industry for black artists over the course of the past year and a half. The music industry's dirty secret. Is that artists. Don't make a whole lot of money on the selling of their actual music so many other people do they make money being on the road bike tour And the one thing that it did for black artists over. The last year was to really hamper their ability to make a living by being out on the road The nappy team incredibly important. You know folks who out ways to monetize you know doing performances in their living room. I i love the work. That that toby in wig way. from down in houston did over the last year in terms of creating a platform to be able to push these music out into the world without having to go on tour versus was so incredibly important. Not so much for for new music. Artists were able to to double down on their catalog. I'm sure the is the brothers or when it fire pay lavelle gladys knight so incredible increases in the sales of their music back catalogue because versus right but you know once things opened up again. People can make the money that they can make by being back on the road and connecting with people. So you're so right about verses and the ways that from my perspective the things that saved my life during quarantine was club quarantine and verses right sort of having black music to to see us through in those moments but then this point about the green for black artists so let me ask you about this a bit because one of the things you lay out in the piece is about the black artists database and other ways that contemporary black artists are seeking to support the industry and support one another. Can you tell us about that. Yeah i think this is a pretty incredible story. I mean th to do a little bit of a backstory those band camp which is a great platform on which you know any musician. Small to huge can upload their album receive directly bam. Camp takes a small fee However wants the pandemic it and bam realize so. Many artists weren't able to tour and make money like usual. They started waving their fees every friday. Sorry once a month on certain. Friday each month and calling at band camp friday so on those fridays. They're very heavily. Publicized and pushed by artists and artists were receiving are small labels one hundred percent of any income that came in that day so those became a big deal and right around that time A woman in london as dj named mukisa delancey kind of realize that even though things are hard for the musicians she knew in london in europe that it was harder in america where there is no real sort of fallback plan. People are having a hard time paying their rent and she saw the band. Fridays is a real way to kind of mobilize support so she and some other friends got together and to start at a simple google spreadsheet and started a list of black electric musicians. I think she said they got about thirty people they knew and they could think of. This was two days before one of the band camp. Fridays in june of two thousand twenty and put that up on some facebook pages and some groups went to bed and woke up They've asked people to sort of add to it and woke up and there are five hundred names on the list which is kind of incredible and by friday the next day there were a thousand and this was a way for people to literally just put money directly in the pockets of those musicians by buying their music bam as musicians every day via pay pal. So there's no waiting. There's no monthly thing or anything like that and it turned into a much bigger thing. I think it's at around thirty. Five hundred artists and creators labels right now and they. It was under the instagram handle. Black band camp. But now it's called the black music database and this is completely volunteer run. There is no money behind getting paid. These are just people who saw a need and acted and it's kind of an a great example of what somebody can do today. That's in the spirit of black music month in so many ways that feels to me like the very stories of what black music is at its core. I mean even beyond the sonic aspects sort of that notion of the collective collaborative work that we do with each other. Even as we're creating art. But mark i i have to reveal this. I feel nothing has shows my age more than music taste like. I'm definitely that person who now marks my children about the hip hop. They listen to so help me to think about the stories that are being told in contemporary black music. That may be an old head like me can still really appreciate you know. They're telling the stories their own lives right and in the world that in eighteen or nineteen year old experience now is very different world that we experience when we were that age black music has always been about storytelling ride both the storytelling of individual artists. Who are making music. But also the broader stories are who we are as a community and you know the thing that has been ongoing about black music. If you wanna find out what's happening in black. America listened to the wide john styles that we defined as black music. And you'll hear the story about what's going on We know that for instance that you know young artists and young black folks at dealing with things like addiction to painkillers Because you can't listen to a hip hop song and not hear some references percocet. That's just what what is just one example of that And i think very often is older listeners. Because because i'm with you right there right upset me on my eighteen year old like what is this. The we're listening to right. Can i put on my billy preston city right so but you know they are articulated in the world that were there and and we have to get away from replacing judgement on how they described that world and actually go in and listen to what they're dealing from what they're feeling at this moment. Absolutely thank you so much to mark. Anthony neal the james b. duke distinguished professor of african and african american studies at duke university. He's also the host of the podcast left of black and two nabil ayers writer and general manager of the record label four. ad checkout and deals piece in pitchfork. About what black music month means. Now thank you both for joining us. Let's do the pleasure in one thousand nine hundred seventy. The united states officially entered world war one and african americans who had fought in every conflict since of revolutionary war were among the first to volunteer. But president woodrow decision to re segregate. The armed forces met many were shunted into non-combat roles. Still these men and women hope that bravery in war would lead to more equality back home instead. The war against racism became even more deadly in one thousand nine hundred seventeen. American lynch mobs murdered thirty. Six black people in one thousand nine hundred eighteen. They killed sixty in nineteen nineteen lynch. Took seventy six black lives and then in nineteen twenty. One of violent white mob attacked burned and destroyed the prosperous black community of greenwood until oklahoma this year. As we mark the juneteenth celebration of freedom we also commemorate one hundred years. Since the tulsa race massacre episode. Three of the podcast blindspot tulsa burning specifically addresses the two wars. That black americans fought as soldiers in world war one and as second class citizens back home the host and co producer of blindspot tulsa burning this cala and she joins me now welcome. Cavalier thank you. Thanks for having me melissa. Let me start by saying this is truly a beautiful piece of audio storytelling. And i'm just so pleased that it happened in your hands that you have that you've created this. thank you. Thank you very much. And i wish i could take all the credit but believe me. There's a village behind. There's there's a whole team of folks who are working to make this such a beautiful special podcast. So i want to acknowledge them in some ways when you make that point about there being a village community a team it brings us to tulsa. And there's you know recently but a lot of conversation about how much was lost. And estimating like brookings estimate something like two hundred million but can you talk to us about what was lost. That can't be measured in dollars. Yeah i mean. I imagined because i grew up in a town similar to greenwood. I imagine that it's a kind of place where people you know. Borrowed money and sugar and items and they were able to play and everybody knew everyone. Else's children and that there was a real sense of community and people rooting for one another and support and all the other things that go on and communities also drama and home pain and suffering. And things like that. But i would suspect that greenwood from reading about it. You know these were people who were not very far removed from slavery itself generations like one or two generations removed from slavery and they were just trying to make a a good life for themselves. They were just trying to be happy to feel safe to be in community and Yeah it's it's very evident when you read about the various people who made up greenwood. I wanna talk a little bit about episode three the two wars. What are the two wars. So the first we started off with wilson declaring war deciding that he was going to enter the. Us would enter war in one thousand nine hundred seventeen so a few years after the great war had already begun. So that's one war that was happening overseas when that only and freelance all over you know and other parts of the world in the country and then the other war was happening on. Us soil. was this war. It seemed against black people against people and black communities of this sort of the the racial terrorism the mistreatment the abuse that was happening throughout the country which pretty much led to the great migration where you know some six million. African americans ended up migrating to other parts of the country from the south. And so you had it where it just wasn't safe flake. Every move that you made a black person in this country. No matter where you lived could get you killed. You know whether you're walking too close behind a white woman. If you you know happened to look a certain way or look a white person in the eye that could get you killed. I'm sure you know all about this. Melissa you know so life was life was really challenging and you were like walking tight group at at any given moment if you were a black person in america during this period and yet and i think this is part of. What's so lovely about what you doing in this episode and yet make the choice the decision and an often with a lot of angst to go off and serve the country to go off to wilson's war to serve in world war one and in part with the hope that doing that kind of service might in fact have a have an effect on that homefront right that it might create opportunities for more equity and citizenship. I think i was most struck by Your storytelling about the banners. That say While we're gone please. Don't lynch lynch our families while we are gone. Yes yeah. I mean that was very Sobering just to read that to see that it. It's actually from a nonfiction book. Boomtime about oklahoma and One of the producers found it one of our producers had have found that line and we knew we had to include it Yeah it's it's really sad because they really had very good intentions and and enlisting in the war in hopes that this would stop the domestic terrorism. Stop the mistreatment in the abusive that their families have been experiencing but they were very well aware that the possibility the fact that they couldn't be there to protect their families would put their families at risk. When you're talking about your producer having found this and making that decision to include it. I also really appreciate it. Took us on some of those journeys trying to uncover this story. It's not like just is on wikipedia. You everyone already knows one of dry. Yeah but you're going to be wrong a lot but you tell the story about seeking out some of the key articles from the black press from that time those that told and recorded those lynchings in real time particularly those of a newspaper man smitherman and they're gonna talk to me about that loss of black history like what happened. Where are they. Yeah i mean. I wish i knew i. A lot of people have ticked complicit for research centers in major institutions. Just to no longer have certain issues on microfilm. Certain issues of newspapers You know literally somebody cutting them out because you know you know back then there were just the papers and then microfilm and the now. A lot of things have been digitized. But even you know an all of those three cases or instances People just could not find. We had professor boyd say decades. Go he went to a library. Muskogee oklahoma not far from tulsa and. He wanted to research on this. He's now professor and he was working towards that back then he wanted to find out more information about what happened until sir and he was so shocked by the fact that there were holes in the newspapers And so yeah. Those are very Deliberate and systemic way of removing our history. A removing story That pertains to life or that might be evidence or documentation of abuse mistreatment of this terrorism. That was happening throughout the country. Yeah it's it's really astonishing not unlike the legislative attempts to end what they call critical race theory. I just. I was thinking as i was thinking about people cutting out these stories from the newspaper from historical record. I was like oh. That's what this is. I guess i want to come to you on this. Is that that to me. That's part of the value of this kind of storytelling is both so that we can know that history but also gave me this really beautiful way of understanding what was happening right now. So what is it that you hope that audiences will take away from this episode from the podcast. In general my is that people will engage with this history will also talk to their own family members. Their friends their their immediate circles and just have conversations like this. I mean it was really surprising to me. Every time i spoke to a tulsa native. Who said they didn't know anything about what happened. In greenwood in one thousand nine hundred eighty one and they were adults until they were out of college. And so i think I understand why that happened. People are really fearful of their lives. They were getting death. Threats and some people were very ashamed and embarrassed by you know maybe their descendants of perpetrators or maybe their their their family members were part of the massacre. But today a week. We can no longer afford to do that. You know i mean. I think the reason why the story is so very fresh and so many people have been able to to do documentaries of podcast about it is because of the living word is because family members wrote things down and their journals. They talk to each other. They talk to their pastor their spiritual advisers their elders their children other people in their lives and so i think that's what i hope is that people are no longer afraid to talk about this history that we embrace it. We accept it that it's it's a part of healing and it's a part of moving on and it's it's critical if We are going to to reconcile a lot of this history so colleagues. Sometimes when we're telling these histories we focus only on the experience of of victimization of loss which is important but at every point. There's also resistance. There's also pushing back. There's also these communities in defense of themselves tell us a bit about that part of story. Yeah i mean. I really wanted to Include black resistance and the fact that black people from the first people who were put on boats have been resisting all along you know for centuries now and this particular group that we focus on it in episode three came up in conversation again with one of i think professor boyd again. He's who's phenomenal. He's not in the series but he was really great and providing information and and giving me guidance on where to look around this history He stressed to me. Like oh there were so many of these groups. These secret societies of black men of black people who were organizing themselves Because they were very concerned about their children about their communities as things became more widespread. Violence became more widespread. So we really wanted to. We couldn't give like a catalog or an overview of all of the various groups. A lot of people know about marcus. Garvey's you and i a about malcolm x. and and other Individuals who led the charge. Who were speaking out for black people black intellectuals like w e b Boys booker t. Washington but what about some of the working class people. What about the veterans. And how they organized and the african blood brotherhood was a really good example of a group like that and so they were all about the liberation of people of african descent and they were also very much about the army and about self defense a black people. And as i say an episode three they were sort of like the nineteen twenty version of the black panther party. Kelly is the host and co producer of blindspot tulsa from the history gentle. Wnyc koa's you and focus black oklahoma. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you and i wanted to make sure the yata chance to hear some of this wonderful work. So here's a portion of episode three the two wars throughout route their early nineteen hundreds white on black. Violence wasn't limited to physical attacks. It touched every aspect of african american lives for where they could go to how they got there their certain ways that as a black person you are to act around why people stepping off of a paved sidewalk. Averting your eyes checked. If you're a man and you're in counting white woman again. This is making marcolini of the university of texas at austin and that kind of structured people's daily activities. They did not want to do something that was going to incur the attention unnecessarily and definitely they always understood the possibility of violence that was also the experience of black men serving in the military. They were often abused or mistreated by their fellow soldiers and forced to do the most task but when they were off duty and had the chance to go beyond the strict limitations of the army when they actually got to experience a bit of daily life in europe they found that eliminating refreshing even it was an opportunity to step outside of the american system. They could look back at it and say oh my god. It's not as natural as breathing that the world should happen. This way adrian lindesmith of duke university going to france and being somewhere where like you know. A white woman would give up her seat for a black soldier on the metro. Makes you think pro. This is how things are sort of takes away the universality of it. The french government even awarded the three hundred and sixty ninth infantry regiment the legendary harlem hell fighters with special medals for bravery and so the soldiers returned from the war with a very real sense of how things could and should be in black publications across the country. There were more calls to fight against the violence and oppression at home. The boys were powerful. Essay called returning soldiers where he's basically gives that clarion call for the militancy that black folks will need to feel the freedom struggle where he says you know we return to a country that lynch's and degrades and abuses us. We return from fighting. We return fighting. And then he says make way for democracy. We saved it in france. And by the great jehovah we will say that in the united states or no the reason why which yeah that's it that that catches and it still gives me chills. It is a beautiful piece of political rating. I read it not too long ago. And i felt the same like wow when i was doing research on literally what was happening in the early twentieth century. I wanted to know what was the spirit that was being swept across the nation. Kimberly ellison is a scholar of american and african studies. I found out about this. Group called the african blood brotherhood. And they just so fierce now. There were several black liberation organizations taking shape at that time including the universal negro improvement association. Are you and i a founded by marcus garvey. The african blood brotherhood was founded by cyril briggs. An african caribbean american writer and self proclaimed communist based in harlem. The abe was small but influential in part. Thanks to its magazine the crusader. They spoke unapologetically about their blackness. About arm self-defense. I admire the fact that the crusader they refused to take ed money for basically skin bleaching refused to take ed money for that and i thought that was so progressive abbas definitely impressed the crusader also featured ads in their midges of dark skinned women with the frequency that was uncommon at the time and in it. There were these recipes for making the most of your stale bread and also dress patterns for fuller figure. Women it's hard to know. Exactly how many active members the ab had by nineteen twenty probably around one to two thousand and as many as two thirds of them were women university of texas professor. Make a mock alani elsewhere within the crusader. They're actually talking about the problem of infant mortality. The problem of child sickness the problem of sanitation in tenements in harlem. They are addressing. These concerns that speak to those daily preoccupations that tended to fall on women in the household. The magazine urged its readers to take up. Arms against lynch mobs and protect people of african descent all around the world. The abb was of like a nineteen twenties version of the black panthers. The membership included many veterans among them. Harry haywood who would become a leading figure in the communist party. My guess is that and chicago when harry haywood talking about. They will arming themselves and taking up positions positions on rooftops defending community. My guest based on the gender dynamics of that time is that they wouldn't have won at women to go on the rooftops. And do that kind of thing. But i would not be surprised if we found out that black women in the organization are at least arm to protect their families as they are trying to escape the violence. Where are they getting these weapons. Can you go a little bit into detail about that. Well so i think the thing remember and you know this is kind of a problem with the mythology about civil rights movement being this passive movement. Black people in the south. This was a gun culture so people had guns. They were armed with the return of people from the war. People who are veterans That they brought some of their arms back with them just to give an example of how. This might have functioned in louisiana Queen mother more ali. More a prominent black nationalist in civil rights leader. She gives this account of a meeting at a longshoremen's union meeting hall that they invited. Marcus garvey to come get election and the local sheriff said if he gives an address we are going to arrest him. So the organizers of the lecture gather up all their guns put them in burlap sacks and bring them to the meeting hall marcus. Garvey goes to give speech the sheriff and his deputies begin to make their move and everybody pulls out their guns. He's going to speak. You're not going to touch him now. That was just a little taste of episode. Three of the podcast blindspot tulsa burning from the history channel. Wnyc chaos you and focus black oklahoma hosted co-produced by cavalier took i'm barbara mix kennedy the host of the anti-racist. A new action podcast. I'm launching on june ninth from iheartmedia pushkin industries each week. I'll be joined by special guest to discuss how different policies in platforms can dismantle racism to build a just and equitable world. Listen to be. Antiracist on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast hi everybody. Melissa harris perry and this is the takeaway this year many companies have had a juneteenth to their holiday calendar and on thursday it became an official federal holiday. We wanted to know how your marking the day. And here's what you told us. My name's anthony from cleveland ohio. And there's been a century long disenfranchisement of the african american genome in general from a wellness perspective and so for this time released a freedom document to help people get three from the body shaming food. Shame and die. Euro centric diet coke exist in this country because We have to sit people free from the mentality that they are second-class citizens in just about every viable manner of culture. Did they live in george. Calderaro i'm calling from new york city where i am the director of relations at columbia university and for tune teams attending mayor. Bill de blasios inaugural juneteenth celebration with lumbia community stoller. Eric washington author of swastika grits the life of james williams red caps grand central terminal about the African american leader and mentor james. Worry i'm happy to my name's andrew i'm calling from vermont. I can't take teams off. Because i'm some kind of essential worker but if i did have the day i would try to word five hockey businesses that i know or find a new ones to promote and support them is always so great to hear from you guys on saturday. My sister dire taking a little road trip to cr dad family fun and plenty of time to rest our on our juneteenth agenda. Now thanks so much for your calls. Please continue to call and tell us how you memory juneteenth us. Eight seven seven eight six nine eight to five three. That's eight seven. Seven eight. My take this is the takeaway. I'm melissa harris. Perry in for tanzania vega and this is my dad and my father never said to me. Look i want you to act the way i But it certainly came across. His name is william harris. He's a retired college professor and a pretty serious guy so serious in fact that when we were growing up he routinely signed birthday cards for my siblings. And me not with the endearment love daddy but by writing the struggle continues daddy this week. I decided to ask him why i thought about that. A great deal of all over my lifetime adult lifetime and that spirit made say look. The struggle continues from grandpa from my dad from itself. It was always that in my mind. The struggle continues his response. Made me curious about our fathers and the ways that they shape us for good and for ill by their stories and their lessons. So we're doing a little father's day the takeaway style we're talking with women who hold elected office across the country and asking them about their dads. Hi i'm mayor jenny. Durken the mayor of seattle for me. When i was a kid. My father was larger than life. The mayor's father is the late martin. Durkin who held seats in both the washington state house and state senate. He is remembered as both a powerful end. Beloved elected leader. I grew up in a family. That was very much involved in the civil rights struggle. He brought to our house and introduced us to black. Panthers indian activist farm workers. Union workers at that time was really focused on. How do we make sure that we're building a better society and my dad showed us how you could lead the way on that. I'm bonnie watson coleman and i'm represents the twelfth congressional district in the state of new jersey representative bonnie watson coleman is also the daughter of a father who was an elected official. Her dad was assemblyman. John s watson and he was the first african american to win a countywide election in mercer county new jersey. He was my idol. He was my standard. I thought he was the most gorgeous kind brilliant man that god ever created. Mudassar wanted to be an elected official eiter but he became part as a businessman became part of political action committee of some local elected and some appointed folks who were glad who wanted to make the democratic party have more respect for us than just to get our vote and so they selected my father out of this group to run against the party. Bonnie watson coleman political career began when she ran for and won the seat that her father once held in the state house. From the time i got to the assembly to the gym. A left people had john watson stories. How he helped him. You know how important he was to them and it just. I was just very very like bursting. With pride. the congresswoman's adoration of her own father affects how she understands. The impact of incarceration on african american families. We owe our communities a lot because our children didn't have the benefit of their father. Not having a strong relationship with your father is an experience that resonates with congresswoman alma adams who represents the twelfth congressional district of north carolina. I didn't meet my father until i was fifteen years old. I grew up With my mom and my mother remarried. And i had a stepfather for a number of years until i was about eleven or twelve years old and he passed away And it was after that. That i actually met my date. Get to know him We had now only many talks to understand him as a man congresswoman adams reminds us that even the most strained relationships can lead to important lessons in living. I think we all make mistakes will as my dad made a lot of mistakes But i think you're right. Forgiveness is the key and you. you don't want to repeat those. I used those as examples for me. to try to do the best that i can do for not only much children but for the community that i that i represent the city of charlotte. North carolina is part of that community. That all my adams represents i'm bilal's and i'm the mayor of charlotte north carolina. The only daughter with five brothers mayor lyles learned many lessons not only from her dad but from her grandfather and from her brothers my grandfather started a small business in columbia south carolina with a wagon and mules. My dad went into business because of his father. And today i have five brothers and they own that business and it's a third generation black on business. My brothers made that business successful because of the values instilled by my dad. The mayor's father did not live to see her run for office. But she is certain. He's proud of what she's accomplished. He was really proud of me for being that person that sought knowledge in a way that was authentic to myself and the ability for me to give back to this community especially my community my city now charlotte about five hours south of charlotte in atlanta georgia. There's another woman mayor whose father had a big impact on her life he shall laid its bottles and their of atlanta georgia and there's no mistaking how the mayor feels about her father. The late major land who was a popular rb singer. My daddy was the absolute dad in the world. He was a lot of fun. He loved me unconditionally. She always saw and believe the best in me and although he was an entertainer in his schedule often cost him to work at nine. She was the one when. I got home from school. He was a good cook. He was a lot of fun. And i miss in every single day. Major lance may be gone but his lessons were made with his daughter. The most important lesson i learned from my dad was to never be afraid to be told he would often say me with. Did you ask. did you try. The worst they can do is tell. You know baby so learned with that just as big lesson about not being afraid of rejection or failure so many a highly accomplished women that we talked to told us they were able to stand in their own confidence in part because they knew their dad always had their back. My name is paul and i am the congresswoman representing washington's seventh congressional district. My father is ninety years old and he lives in bangalore india. I think the most important thing i learned from my dad is to believe that you can do anything. My dad really believed that and he took his last five thousand dollars and used it to send us his girls to the united states at the age of sixteen. That's when i came here by myself because he really believed that there was nothing we could not do. They're all kinds of things he wanted us to do. And politics was not one of them but he really believed that there was nothing impossible and his girls could do anything and i also learned about hard work from my dad and that is something that has stayed with me to the stay if you wanna know more about these women and their dead. Check out our digital package in partnership with harper's bazaar it's available on father's day at harper's bazaar dot com. That's all we have for y'all today and we really appreciate you tuning in for a juneteenth special. Please be safe and have fun now before we go. I want to give a shout to this amazing crew. Who puts this show together. Daily our producers are the obermann. Jose oliveira's meg dalton patricia. Yakup and lydia mcmullan laird. Our line producer is jackie martin. Our senior producer is amber hall. Sean sandra is our board op. And vince fairchild is our engineer. J cow is director and sound designer and polly. Ringo is our digital editor. David gable is our executive assistant and lee hill is our executive producer. We also had a little help this week from the tiny but mighty team of the energy liuqiu percenter special. Thanks to miller coffee chris. Dickson and jamie crockett and shout out to the incomparable shanta covington for her work on our father segment. Thanks so much for listening. I'm melissa harry influencing vega and this is the takeaway.

melissa harris kenny gamble tulsa Anthony neal nabil ayers united states greenwood james b Wnyc studios lorenzo tate darius love hall nina moseley dionne farris lincoln center orchestra president jimmy deanna williams duke university leon hof Perry Guthrie randy
Mental Health Crisis Looms Large As Coronavirus Pandemic Continues 2020-08-06

The Takeaway

53:54 min | 1 year ago

Mental Health Crisis Looms Large As Coronavirus Pandemic Continues 2020-08-06

"Support for the takeaway comes from hint water fruit infused water with no calories and no sweeteners hint water is available in over twenty-five flavors including watermelon and blackberry in stores are delivered directly to your door from drink hint dot com. Restless night's loneliness irritability anger, and maybe a loss of hope we're feeling the virus in all sorts of ways you this namic up chuckles is being able to focus on anything for fifteen to twenty minutes. Going to pin DEMOC differently saps your motivation and energy away carries this is dangerous and yet it doesn't impact me today on the takeaway for Thursday August six were talking with you. About the pandemics toll on our collective mental health. Also on the show Kanye West sparked a conversation about how the media tackle celebrity and mental illness. If these were the rantings of just a homeless man on the streets, no, one would care and we look at the months-long long celebration of black resistance. The was created at a time of tremendous malls in terms of the black liberation. So that's why there's the emphasis on trying to revitalize reinvigorate in rededicate. All right let's do this. Nearly six months into the global pandemic covid nineteen is taking a toll on our mental health. Hi, this is Julia Rate Calling from New Concord Ohio I'm a chaplain, and previously I've prided myself on having excellent coping abilities and even lead by students on grounding and thundering practices. Through this in them up struggled with being able to focus on anything for fifteen to twenty minute if you'll referenced and bad and on all the time and keep telling my students that this is. The time to give yourself a break to just look at yourself and love yourself and not be too hard. But I look at the changes in my life, my social life, my body, my mental health I can't help but be horrified and wrestling returning to work week kind putting on work clothes today. Cry. My name is Bernie at Martin and from Portland Oregon nine until help during this in. It has Been A lot. It's definitely taking a giant downturn. I actually gave birth. A week before the Pan. was declared a pandemic. We've been home with a newborn ever since. They are now five months old and thriving and loving all this. Extra parenting in. Home time, but it is a lot I do have postpartum depression and it's definitely exacerbated the issue I. Luckily have a lot of support from my partner and my roommate's all of which are also doing their own mental health issues right now. Honestly I think I'm probably. Really. Lucky. All things considered but. They're really hard and I try to and trying to a really good mental health example for my baby. So. Yeah. Okay Bernadette. Mom Myself. I hear you and thank you so much for sharing your stories. You can keep telling us the pandemic has affected your mental health by calling us at eight, seven, seven, eight, mile take. In June more than thirty, six percent of US adults reported symptoms of anxiety or depression, and that's an increase of roughly twenty five percent from the same time last year that data's according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Even former first lady Obama said she's experiencing low grade depression because of the state of the country today bottom line we're dealing with a lot right now economic insecurity global pandemic that forces us to stay apart political infighting and the ongoing fight for racial justice are just some of the stressors were facing right now listeners you're not alone I'm Tansy Nevada and the state of our mental health is where we start today on the takeaway. Sandy Orion is a healthcare reporter would seek you row call welcome to the show Sandia. Thanks for having me and Dr Suzanne Song as the Director of the Division of Child Adolescent and Family Psychiatry at George Washington University Medical Center thanks for being with US Dr Song Ankium. Dr. Song what are been some of the most notable changes in our mental health or mental health of the patients that you've been seeing during the pandemic. It's been quite variable and changes over time. So at the start of the pandemic, I was actually very surprised myself and my other is psychiatry colleagues. We were really worried about those who had pre existing anxiety because of course, we thought they would worsen. And yet people with anxiety were my bright stars. Actually they are used to seeing threats and being concerned feeling fear ruminating about bad things about to happen and many have learned therefore ways of coping. So they can label they're feeling is anxiety and they're now in the beginning of the pandemic, they're teaching other people like this is what you're feeling. You're feeling anxiety. This is what you can do here are some breathing techniques your some relaxation behaviors you can do and they're really validating. Feeling more at ease because now, the reality of worry was true and they can sit back and let other people carry the anxiety for them. But now you know four, five, six months in it's a very different story I think almost all of my patients, every single session are talking about. What. Your caller's actually spoke about and of low motivation difficulty focusing low energy irritability and just a general on. We like a boredom with life. They have things we can do but there's really no reason for doing them with describe that as low grade depression is that on the depression spectrum Doctor Song. It is and it's hard when an entire community where fear experiencing collective depression almost now people with depressive disorder where it actually affects their functioning. They also have negative self appraisal. So they often think negatively about themselves like why did I say that I look bad I am bag never be anything. The problem is now they have the space and the time at home without other distractions or social input to immerse in this negative self dialogue on. Sunday, you've reported recently on some of the concerns that the pandemic has raised around suicide in this country briefly. What was your findings there? So. Right now we in the past year. So we have been on an upward trend where even in two thousand nineteen, we were at like a twenty year high of suicide death rates, and right now in certain parts of the country is little pockets throughout the country. There have been some spikes and suicide deaths, but it's kind of hard to tell because the national data from places like the Centers for disease. Control and Prevention, and from all the different medical examiners offices won't be available for a little while lot of experts are worried that it might spike because of all the different stress factors that you've mentioned things like the the economic situation, the health situation, the races and you know lack of social interactions and being able to go to religious services there just so many different factors that that could increase the suicide death rate. Dr Song we mentioned there's so many things that people are dealing with. Is it the culmination and the layering of all of these issues on top of one another that's adding to our collective Malays or is there one specific thing that is most to blame for the recent uptick in what we're seeing as far as anxiety depression other issues? I think it's definitely multifactorial. It's overlaid with nor pre existing mental healthcare access to resources and support a a want to emphasize the impact of are truly our social inequalities and how that impacts mental health and. You, know when we talk about suicide, often a precursor that is feeling isolated and. When we have physical distancing restrictions that doesn't necessarily mean social isolation. and. Yet. Right. Now, we have such a wide spectrum of precaution behavior. So if patients who feel even more isolated from family and friends now because they don't share the same precaution behaviors, maybe adults who are compliant with masking distancing and yet they're older parents or their loved ones or their their spouses at home they differ in this. and. So now there's this feeling of what's wrong with me my overreacting. Underlying worry about their lives in danger people are scared to walk by someone, and now we view everybody is a threat and that is a huge stress dry system and and people are grieving right. We experienced collectively grief the loss of life John's security relationships, former ways of living all of this will also losing our normal outlet for coping. So we don't have workouts or vacations things to look forward to our office talk social outings. And Zoom meetings just to be honest they just don't seem to cut it which is a lot of us are are staying connected whether that's through zoom or facetime or texting. Sunday has the federal government noticing what's happening here issued any resources for mental health care for people who are dealing with this right. Now, I recall at the very beginning of the pandemic here in New York governor Cuomo, for example, ask for thousands of mental health professionals to come to the state to help with the increase in in calls to hotlines. But what does the federal government done to assuage some of our mental health concerns nationally? So they're kind of two pronged, there are things that have been done already, and there are things that are in the process of being done. So right now it better government has made it a lot easier that if you want telehealth for any of the mental health services or substance use services that you have, it's a lot easier to get that paid for by your insurance whether it's through government insurance or private insurance. It's just simplified a lot during the pandemic So that's definitely a helping people that are that are seeking treatment either for the first timer if they'd gone many times and then on the other side, there are a few things that the government has been doing In the previous bills that have been there to help with Kobe relief, there's been money appropriated to kind of go some of the behavioral health providers to kind of help them get through it because they've not been having as many people come in person and some there. David. Experiencing some of the troubles that a lot of. Different businesses and providers have had and In the House Energy and Commerce Committee has marked up a bunch of different mental health bills that could see for action and become law were of them related to suicide. But some of them were more broadly related things like getting mental health covered under telehealth. Under Medicare, you know even after the pandemic is is over and all these bills are pretty bipartisan. So they're likely to to be brought up at some point and then even yesterday a bipartisan group of fifty eight members of Congress wrote a letter to leadership to just Kinda prioritize mental health substance use treatment in the ever whatever the next big packages that comes out that. There is agreement on. So a lot of different things are happening Dr Song to that point I mean we knew before the pandemic about a year ago the data in the United States around suicide was grim and so I'm wondering not just specific to suicide but more broadly, how can people assess whether or not? They're dealing with a short term stress whether it's about wearing masks or what have you or something more severe that might require treatment. And that's a great question. I think we always have to think about how pervasive are symptoms are and how the severity of them. So we all feel bad. You know net one day here one day there maybe in the morning be feel better throughout the day. But if there are persistent severe symptoms where we just really can't focus and we really have periods where. Bet Negative self-appraisal just takes over and we feel hopeless and. Quite frankly an existential despair. And not just persistent. That's time to think it's really. Important to seek mental health care like now is the time right now because there's no need to suffer in silence alone when. They're so many people right now expect almost one third of Americans right now experiencing symptoms of depression and anxiety. So now is the time to come forward and to ask for help. And to know that they are not alone. That's right. We on the show we asked our listeners a couple of weeks ago to talk about how they're coping by creating moments of joy Joy is something that's very immediate and I think what we're talking about now is hope are you noticing hopelessness? Among people is that was driving this sense of you know the sense of depression and darkness right now is that people are lacking hope and if so how do we get better at finding that hope? It's such a great buen so It is extremely hard to find hope. And that but that reason I, think is also multi-layered. So, we think about. In the short term versus the long term effects of this stress and in the short term, sometimes it's easier to have hope that in the longer term. So it's like a house on Fire News. When the short term, there's lots of damage done the houses on fire, but you don't really see the after effects until the fire dies down and your space and time to look at the remains, see the damage, and then you can start to build that hope for the future because the crisis is over and so you have the space and capacity to actually have hope. But if that house continues to burn for four to six months and it's hard to see when that will end. then. It's really hard to have that hope because you don't know we have that uncertainty of what the future is going to be one will this crisis be over? and. What makes it worse is? For example, we have firefighters were arriving to that house in the metaphor be like masks or distancing, and they're actually being turned away from helping that fire. Or. Let's say the fire is Your House and people are walking by, but they're ignoring it and pretending it's not on fire. It's those things that make hope very, very difficult. So the trauma and the stress in the difficulty in having hoped the hopelessness right now is not just the actual virus. It's not the actual fire. It's all of a stress, the inconsistency in response, the lack of uniform guidance, the very billion messaging about what safe or the virus itself the devaluing of some people's lives. All of that is extremely traumatic in this catapulting of helplessness, fear and despair. And we've been hearing you know before the pandemic there were lots of conversations about resilience, and I I often find those conversations are are. That topic is it really depends on who's receiving the message I. Think about as you were mentioning earlier, there are people who have suffered anxiety and depression and. Were prepared for this moment right in a different way. but then there are who hadn't in this was sort of you know a new place for the mentally When we talk about resilience, you know women people of Color or poor people have had to be resilient and are probably examples of resilience Ron fettered resilience in many ways because they've had no choice how do we create resilience in this moment? for. Americans because. I just don't know how else to do you know what else to say at this point I think a lot of people feel that way. They don't know what else to say, what else to do what to do like. You said, all of our coping mechanisms that we used we used to have including gathering and community have been taken away. Yes. So You know resilience is. Is a dynamic process. It's not a static tree that we either are resilient or not, but it's a process which means it can be learned as also time and context dependent. So I could be resilient in the past but right now I'm not feeling is linked at all. or It's context of pants so I might be able to build on my resiliency in the work situation. If my boss gets upset with me, I can you know find ways to overcome that but the same day if something happens within my family I crumble and I really let that get demand. It's hard for me to be resilient. So for people to know that resiliency is a process and just because you're not feeling resilient right now does not mean one is doesn't have the capacity to be resilient. The you mentioned some an extremely good points around the structural. Inequalities, and the impact of has I think we are you're right. We are forcing people to be resilient. But tolerating is not the same as being resilient. And we really need in order to help people be resilient I. Think the thing we most need to do is to change structures and the social systems that are forcing people to be resilience. meaning. We change our policies to better reflect our society where we actually value children and families. So we know right now one of the hardest hits groups right now mental health. Wise. There's a study from University of Southern California. Is Young X is a mother's. So mother's right now with children, women with children are really struggling with the burden of working full-time and how trying to manage childcare and also typically being the caregivers in their family for their other loved ones. These are some of the social policies that we need to really address to help people become more resilient. Dr Suzanne Song is the Director of the Division of Child Adolescent and Family Psychology at George Washington University medical. Center and Sunday Rahman is healthcare reporter with Cq roll-call. Thanks to you both. Thank you so much. And if you or someone you know is in need of mental health treatments that number for the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration's national hotline is one, eight, hundred, six, six, two, four, three, five, seven, this the takeaway. Hi. This is Stacey Krause calling from San Would New Jersey. The isolation of the pandemic is surely affecting meat but not nearly as much as it's affecting less six year old daughter she's become promotional. and has a bit of anxiety about handwashing. Even if we're just at home all day I'm watching her closely and we'll be seeking therapist. If that behaviour gets worse, the damage has caused me to be extremely sad and then I get angry. And then I'm okay I get extremely angry at our. So called president for not protecting our nation and protecting all of its people no matter what their affiliation is and posting consistent lies on any platform that he can get. It's a scary. This is dangerous and yes, it does impact me my name is June and from corning. New York Hi. This is Jennifer from Utah. Yes. My sleep suffered and worry constantly occupy my mind I've had to limit my listening to or looking at the news I used to listen and look at it. But now, only do it every few days or sometimes not at all that it seemed to help a lot. I also try to refrain from arguing with others about our differences of opinion on what the country should do as I realize it only causes me more anxiety and that I really can only control my own action. This is two thousand from South Bend Indiana. I'm socially distancing and after five months, it's very hard I'm full caregiver from my eighty seven year old husband has dementia I text I resume religious services. I, go outdoors. I am somewhat depressed. I'm also covid nineteen long-haul the burden in isolation and current events all way down my spirit even though I feel I'm doing the right thing ethically and grateful my situation is difficult but bearable. Horses a few times a week as I can as my secret information, -taining my fantasy. And more people have been experiencing anxiety or depression in recent months, and while we've gotten better at talking about those types of mental health issues, there's still a lot of stigma and misconceptions surrounding mental illnesses that aren't as widely understood, and that includes in the media which brings us to Kanye West last month after announcing his bid for President Konya made headlines following a campaign rally where he made some pretty outrageous and offensive claims. Now his rally garnered a lot of media attention but much of it failed to note his experience living with bipolar disorder and how that may have contributed to the rant. He gave that evening after the event Connie's wife Kardashian posted a statement on instagram. That said quote we as a society talk about giving grace to the issue of mental health as a whole. However, we should also give it to the individuals who are living with it in times when they need it the most the. Media has long struggled in its coverage of celebrities and others with mental illness consider Britney Spears whose two thousand and seven mental health crisis was so widely scrutinized and so often resurfaced even in mainstream media that it led to memes making light of the artist's experience. So for today's media conversation, we're GONNA talk about how the media can get better when it comes to covering Mental Health Danielle Belton is the editor in chief of the route and she joins me now Danielle welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. When you look at media, the media coverage of Konya and other celebrities that are dealing with similar issues. Mental health issues is there a pattern that you see emerging? I think what I often see is a focus on what salacious an exciting and what's good drama as opposed to looking at this person in crisis who probably needs help and support. there seems to be a lack of sensitivity. It always goes back to what look at this wild thing they said Oh he's running for president. It's just like wait this guy like clearly having some issues right now why are we treating this as if it's a serious campaign all sides point that he's not his own wife as you know come out concerned. So. I feel like the pattern that always emerges focused on the salacious as if this was just any other celebrities story of drama heightened coverage and the colorful language. But without any of the deep analysis to actually goes into what it, what a purse mental health is experiencing, what in your opinion do y'all should journalists political journalists in particular who were looking at covering that? Because I imagine the conversations in newsrooms Konya decided he's going to run for president. We have to talk about this. Right how would you have approached that story? I definitely would approach it with a lot more sensitivity and made it more mental health story than political story because the reality is Connie was hadn't done the work that he needed to do to get on the ballot and fifty states his vice presidential pick was someone that no one had ever heard of ETA just seemed like something that was just thrown together. It didn't seem like. Something that was a real concentrated effort to become president of the United States. It seems something less serious and maybe his actual condition was more serious. So to me, it should have been treated as a health story. What's interesting to me? I. wrote about this in a piece for the route. If these were the rantings of just a homeless man on the street, no, one would care. And there are plenty of people who are battling mental illness who are battling homelessness who say similar things to what Connie has said. And we don't put cameras in front of them. We don't make them headline news we don't take them seriously. In fact, we often ignore them and don't even help them get treatment. So the fact that you have someone is exhibiting. Behavior. Their famous and your approach approaches to stick a camera in their face and treated as if legitimate is disturbing to me. We often a lot of people now I feel like have embraced. The idea that depression is a thing. It's real that people struggle with it. American. Struggle with it anxiety something that many Americans struggle with. But when it comes to things like bipolar disorder like schizophrenia and other mental illnesses that people are less comfortable dealing with how do those conversations shift depending on? You know race gender sexuality in the media. There's definitely a lot of stigma around bipolar disorder I personally suffer from bipolar type two disorder myself and when I was first diagnosed. I had a hard time with the diagnosis. I knew it was so severe and it was something that I couldn't treat lightly. And often when you hear the word bipolar used, it's thrown around as a slur often on reality shows between wealthy housewives insulting one another over who's being the most dramatic. So people have a real miss representation of misunderstanding of severe diagnoses like. Schizophrenia. Because people think it's scary. They think it's unpredictable. They think that somehow people who are mentally ill might harm them when the reality for the vast majority of mentally ill people. The only person there at risk of hurting is our themselves. Most mentally ill people most people who have schizophrenia bipolar disorder or non violent. They're just people who are having trouble balancing. The issues, the chemical imbalances, and other problems they have emotionally or otherwise in their minds, and so until we start to talk about mental health in the same way, we talk about physical health. I think there's always going to be a certain level of stigma attached to it because people want to believe that you can control every aspect of your body, but you just can't the president trump's mental health has been scrutinized in the media and so has that of vice president former Vice President Joe Biden who is our presumptive twenty twenty Democratic nominee how would you assess the media's coverage on that Front Anyo? I'd also say it's kind of poor because again, it feels more like a joke or a punchline as opposed to real serious analysis. I see often the word narcissist thrown around about, Donald Trump and sure he may be narcissist but I've been reading Mary Trump's book and she was a psychologist and she goes into very deep analysis that it would take somebody batteries of tests that the president would never sit forward to actually ascertain what might be his problem. So it's a much more severe issue than I think the media often realizes or portrays. because clearly it clouds his judgment it keeps him from acting on things and the way that he should and respond to things responsibly. So I think it's important to look at the presence mental health talk about it, but I think we need to talk about it in a serious way in a way where we're just making fun of him Danielle. Let's talk a little bit about fictionalized depictions of mental illness television movies for example, are we doing? It's kind of a mixed bag. You know in some respects, we have made some improvements. I've seen some very moving depictions of bipolar disorder particularly on the TV show Dave. Where one of the characters is bipolar and it's struggling with it but you see him go through this journey It's much more realistic and grounded that perhaps other portrayals that I've seen in the past homeland, a show that I have watched throughout the years which stars, Claire Day where she plays a woman with bipolar disorder and Harper trail is very nuanced but I think there's still this tendency. To be just kind of flip you know and talk about using the word crazy to describe people and insane and showing people in a almost a garish kind of cartoonish sort of way which only adds to the stigma. But I do feel like there is a lot of improvement that is happening. You do see people opening up more in their perspectives and their depictions of how people are dealing with trauma like. I made a story which deals with the aftermath of sexual assault. You heard the character deal with PTSD and that's been a very grounded and nuanced and realistic portrayal of it. So I feel like things are are going in the right direction, but we still have some ways to go. You know what we need to turn the spotlight on ourselves. A lot of journalists in this profession is not an easy profession. Daniel is you know a lot of US struggle with mental illness or experienced mental health issues as a result of the job. Is there something that newsrooms can do? Newsrooms can definitely do a better job of supporting their employees who struggled with mental illness. Mostly, the issue that people don't realize like you can go go go go go but eventually you'll become useless and not be able to do your job. If you don't check in on your mental health, you're not helpful to the mission of the news organization if you're so sick that you can't do your job. So it's important for there to be employee wellness programs for there to be adequate mental healthcare within healthcare plans. Adequate coverage for mental health. There has to be adequate time off for when people are experiencing burnout are having severe distress. There needs to be more flexible hours. One of the things that's been great about where I work is that we have unlimited PTO and we have very flexible work hours. So I often tell my employees you know if you need to take a half day, take a half day. If you need to take a week off, let me know in advance will schedule that week. See You can get your head. Back together. I try to be very supportive of my staff and continue to have a regular conversation around mental health and staying on top of it because you know these jobs are very stressful and so it's very, very important for everyone to check in with themselves and say am I at my optimal best if I'm not, what can I do to get back to it? And newsrooms need to be supportive of whatever measures though staff writers, those editors need to get back to a place of these. Very important words, Danielle and I hope newsrooms are listening Danielle Belton is the editor in chief at the Root Danielle. Thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for. I'm Johanna mayor host of science fiction from science Friday and WNYC studios over the next few weeks. We are all about food how restaurants became restaurants. The first restaurants replaces you went not to eat and the linguistic tricks that make food sound delicious. Totally ruined my ability to look at names in the way that normal person. Find Science fiction wherever you got your podcasts. As, we learn more about the corona virus. We know that it can affect healthy people of all ages, and that recovery can be an apostle battle. My Name is David Latte I'm the founding editor of about the law, a legal website and managing director in the New York office of Lateral Inc legal recruiting firm it started off with some fatigue then as the days progressed. I developed a high fever going as high as around one. Oh, four joint aches. David has been on the takeaway before he's forty five and he caught the coronavirus in early March in new. York. City. Before any of us really knew what the virus was and what kind of impact it would have on today. So David talked us through what his experience was like. In New York and early March, there were not many cases of Kobe. So I didn't think it was covid. Thought later in the week I developed a bad cough. And at that point, I, called my primary care doctor. They thought it was maybe the flu that it turns into bronchitis. They prescribe me some antibiotics and some cough syrup cough unfortunately did not get better and then I started to have trouble breathing. This was around the weekend of March fifteen going into Monday march sixteen I went to my nearest emergency room. At Nyu, langone hospital they had to give me supplemental oxygen because I was already in pretty bad shape. They gave me a code test and it turned up positive. They admitted me to the hospital. In the hospital and fairly stable condition for few days receiving supplemental oxygen, getting some medications including the now infamous atrocity chloroquine, which at the time was thought to be potentially helpful. But my condition took a turn for the worst. Late. At night someone came into my hospital room. I can't remember it was a doctor nurse and told me I. would have to be intimated work put on a ventilator on the ventilator pretty much unconscious because they give you a lot of senators. For about six days that was a very scary experience especially for my family I was unconscious during the whole thing and I don't even remember anything about it much to this day thought my husband and my parents were just waiting and waiting for every update each day they couldn't come visit me because the hospitals were not taking visitors at a time especially of covid patient. But Luckily God I did come off the ventilator I was in the hospital for another week or so essentially learn how to breathe. Again, I was just charged from the hospital on April one I remember a Wednesday April fool's day and I went to my parents home. In New Jersey, which is where I husband and my son, and I spent the first part of my coast hospital weeks recovering. Recovery. Breed versus not being recovered not exactly that a binary thing. Yes. No, he's not like turning a light switch on and suddenly you're recovered it's more like a light switch on a dimmer function where it gets a little bit brighter and a little bit darker in a little bit brighter. It's sort of two steps forward one step back. It's a very long process and just because you're a covered from Kobe doesn't mean that you live happily ever after my. Lungs are still not the same. They're still not to where they were before and I'm one of the lucky ones. There are a lot of people who are recovering from Kovic, who has all kinds of problems, heart problems, kidney problems, blood clotting problems, cognitive, and psychological problems. So we can't just think of the toll of cove in terms of the deaths. It also means a lot of people who survive are living lives that are compromised by their having had this disease. Even though I am maybe I should say was relatively young and healthy I'm not invincible I was in critical condition I seen for almost a week and that was a very terrifying experience that just reminded me of my own mortality I also wonder whether code is going to lead us to think about how we deliver health care in this country just in terms of the cost and the accessibility of it having a disease like having an epidemic like visit affects millions of people and results in huge costs, maybe a time of reckoning for us about our healthcare system. That was David Latte founding editor of above the law illegal news website and a managing director in the new. York. Office of lateral link, a nationwide legal recruiting firm, and we wanna hear your experiences about living with and recovering from covid nineteen. How're you doing weeks or months after contracting the virus eight, seven, seven, eight my take is our Colin Line and you can tweet US also I'm at Tenzin Vega and the show is at the takeaway. I'm Tansy Vega and you're listening to the takeaway. This week marked the start of black August a month long observance of black resistance that's been around since the nineteen seventies this year following weeks of nationwide protests against police brutality, systemic racism, black August is finding renewed popularity. It's a time of reaffirmation rededication to the Movement for Black Liberation with a special emphasis on political prisoners and prisoners of war. My name is Sunday to cater to charge your m. a associate professor at the University of Illinois in the Departments of African American Studies in. History. According to soon, Diatta historically, there have been certain rituals associated with black. August and that includes things like physical exercise and fasting. It's a moment where people do fast from Sunup to sundown its time, which there is intense study particularly in the fields of black history and revolutionary and writings with a special emphasis on the work of George Jackson. Jackson was a revolutionary author Field Marshall of the black. Panther Party and also the CO founder of the black guerrilla family a political group in California prisons. At the time Jackson spent more than a decade at San Quentin State prison on charges of armed robbery until his death in August nineteen seventy-one Jackson and other politicized prisoners found themselves constantly at odds with guards in the guards which supply members of white supremacist groups with weapons such as knives to attack and kill a highly political prisoners in one such incident there's a struggle on the yard and Aaron Brothers attacking people. George Jackson makes a decision to use it as an effort to try and escape. And in the midst of that, he shot and killed in the prison Yar Jackson Dan is He's he you know he's a martyr for the movement, the Black Panther Party EP Newton, eulogize Jackson, and black guerrilla family. In the wake of having lost Jackson and his younger brother Jonathan a year before she was security. For Angela Davis, they make a decision to memorialize Jackson and his teachings in that's birth of black blackhawks cindy many Americans have heard of black history month but very few including myself as I mentioned had not. Heard about the tradition of black August why do you think that is? One I think it's because it's recent. Ready. Begins in the early Seventies Nineteen, seventy one after the assassination of George Jackson. To. It comes out of penal system specifically in California and it doesn't really begin to. Hit the broader population of people outside of prison until nine, hundred, seventy, nine, or so. And unless one. Had A connection to a black liberation. Organization that was concerned about political prisoners and prisoners of war is likely that one wouldn't have heard about it until we get to the late nineties. Early, two thousand s when Demarco Mex- grassroots movement. Came up with a project is buyer by Sasha core. To US hip hop as a way of publicising. The plight of African, American. Political Prisoners beginning in nineteen, ninety eight there was a concert of Malcolm x grassroots took a series of artists common Dave Banner. Yes. In Bay, the former most deaf black star artists like that took them to Cuba and subsequently Dan began to take these orders around the world South Africa Tanzania Brazil INS Walea, and of course, concerts in United States. So that gave Black August and bit of publicity. Blake August is similar to Kwanza, not just inform, but also ineffective quasi was a celebration that was only in the black community for several decades. And then it began to slowly spread into much broader segment of the black community and into mainstream America and we see Black August as beginning to move in that same direction Cindy Outta the month of August is also full of other major moments in the history of black resistance. It's not just about the death of George Jackson and others at Saint Quentin but it's also a month where many black revolutionaries were born right either they were born or most important activities occurred in the month of August. So if we think really big pitcher The major event that associates August with black resistance, and that's why we referred to it as black August resistance month would be the Haitian revolution of seventeen ninety. One that outbreak begins in August also Gabriel prosser his conspiracy of eighteen hundred. The area Richmond Virginia that also begins in August as does net Turner's eighteen, thirty, one rebellion and a rebellion in new in eighteen, forty three. But it is also the month in which the NAG wbz boys and William Monroe Trotter form the Niagara Movement is also the month in which Marcus Garvey he was born in. August. But more importantly, he created the Universal, Negro? Improvement Association also month of August so August is replete with billions slave revolts and formation of organizations that sought to liberate black people either US and or worldwide. Are we seeing this black August. More in recent years given particularly the racial justice uprising that we're seeing around the country after the death of George Floyd. Guess precisely, what we're seeing I think that it's because. Of the emphasis over the last six years since death of Michael Brown is emphasis on the injustice of the criminal justice system. This emphasis on police use of excessive and deadly force has also raised the question around black political prisoners, and so one of the things that's happened in that six year period is that there's been a number of high profile cases in which people have gotten their freedom they've been released in the charges have been proven false there has. been a situation in which these black political prisoners names have become much more popular, and all of these things have of combined to make black offers a much more relevant holiday than it had been previously. So there's kind of a would you say a perfect storm between this moment and black August what it represents from what it advocates Cindy Out Takeda Cha is a professor of African American Studies in History at the University of Illinois. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Wildfires have been raging in California this past weekend. Nearly eight thousand people were told to evacuate parts of southern California where the massive apple fire was burning in the northern part of the state as in other spots in the American west dry winter and ongoing drought have may conditions for destructive fires, and now the coronavirus pandemic has made it even more challenging to train much-needed firefighters and has sidelined more than one thousand incarcerated firefighters because of potential exposure to the virus through outbreaks within the prison. System Danielle Vinton is here to talk to me about the situation in. California. She's a science reporter at Q. E. D. Danielle. Thanks for being with US Hello Tanzania. Daniel seems like the fire season is starting a little earlier this year. How does this compare to normal fire seasons? In California yeah you know I have some numbers for you from the beginning of this year. Until the start of August, our state fire agency CAL fire has responded to forty seven hundred fires and that's up from the same period of from the same period of time on a five-year average more than a thousand fires, the average would be about. Three thousand four hundred fires. So this is a very active fire year. Firefighting. Agencies have been very aggressive in attacking fires this year using a lot of air resources and really trying to keep fires small ten acres or less. So we have seen that the total number of acres burned this year is way down from the average number of acres. As the pandemic changed anything about health wildfires start, I mean generally speaking more people are staying home. So has that had an effect on on inciting fires at all? You know speaking with fire officials earlier this season there was a real hope that we would see fewer ignitions. Ninety percent of fires in the state are ignited by human activity and there was a hope that with people staying home more and driving less that we would see fewer admissions that has not played out the common causes of fires getting out of hand or things like debris burning or equipment malfunctions power lines malfunctioning campfire. All those even a personal vehicles igniting fires when they pull over on dry grass for example, all those sources of ignition are still happening. Let's talk a little bit about how preventing fires here what has the pandemic meant for a firefighter training in general, and then we can sort of look at at the incarcerated population that deals with this but generally, speaking has that been affected at all. Yeah I mean the the state agency CAL fire says it's ready. But it has really complicated, the pandemic has really complicated the preparations. This year trainings have had to work differently where normally would have a bunch of trainees together in a big classroom. Those trainings have had to be remote have had to be outside some training sessions have been canceled or delayed and then as you said, there have been less firefighters available than in typical years. And The incarcerated population in California is often used to fight fires. What is happening with that group of folks right now, we know that corona virus has affected certain prison populations across the country. So tell us how that all connects there in California? Yeah. Absolutely. Inmate firefighting crews are a really important part of California's firefighting force. They've they've been used in this state since world, war, two actually and and there are small but crucial crucial portion California employs about eleven thousand full-time in seasonal firefighters every year, and typically there are a few thousand inmate firefighters the because there have been such widespread intense problems with covid nineteen. In the prison system. The governor has released about eight thousand prisoners early to cut down on overcrowding in prisons, and there was also a covid nineteen outbreak in a fire camp last month, and so the numbers of incarcerated firefighters who conserve our down as of late last month. It was about seventy, eight hundred. Danielle we've talked about the complications of managing hurricane. Recovery relief in this moment of a pandemic I'm wondering you know when you're looking at people who are were evacuating in California because of the fires what is that look like during pandemic? Yes. So typically an agency like the Red Cross most commonly sets up if. Centers say in a gymnasium or large high school those are largely not being used even the one was set up in Riverside. County. For the apple fire it was effectively empty and was then closed. What is being prioritized is putting people into hotels because that is that is safer than a congregate evacuation center. Are. There I mean given that you just said hotels can't be cheaper free I imagine I mean are there extra enhances in terms of preparing given that that's the evacuation protocol show for Yeah. I mean it's it is definitely costing more the whole emergency response this year for fighting fires, more costs about the cost of the red. Cross about a hundred dollars a night to set a family up in a hotel. We also see many people stay with friends or with family but it yes, there will be. The. The true cost of responding to fires this year is still to be seen by be much more expensive than typical. Have the California government officials sort of taken the any lessons from these fires as we gear up for a more potential fires to come in the region. Yes well, the you know we've seen an active fire season so far but our worst fires in the state typically are most destructive fires typically come in September and October where you know tragically, we've seen thousands of homes and hundreds of lives lost in a single fire I think that there is an acknowledgement that Four responding to wildfires is complex and in a year and the needs. Of maintaining social distancing makes, things hugely more complex this year. We will be paying close attention as that season. really ramps up Daniel Yell. Vinton is a science reporter at K. Q. E. D., and California Danielle, thank you so much. Thank you. Okay everybody at other Thursday in the books we appreciate you being with us and so does our crew. Let's celebrate them this weekend. Our board operators are Clare, mckean, Debbie daughtry Vince, fairchild, the line producers. This week were Jackie, Martin, and Jake how it also directed and sound design shows Alexandra bootees our senior producer and her crew is Ethan Obermann. Wholesale Vodkas. Mc Dalton. Jason. Jakubowski and Lydia mcmullan layered and our incredible katharina Barton. Our intern who has one more day with us has been a fantastic addition to the show. She's got a seriously bright future ahead of her really going to miss her PAALEA, a room guru and Dina say our our digital editors David Gable is our executive assistant and Lee Hill is the executive producer of the takeaway. We've got some really nice numbers on the digital front from you. So thank you for Listening Amy Walter is in tomorrow and over the weekend I'm back on Monday with you as always. Thanks so much for listening I'm Tansy. Vega. This is the take.

United States California E. D. Danielle reporter Dr Suzanne Song president George Jackson anxiety New York Daniel Yell bipolar disorder Kanye West David York New Jersey Kobe Danielle Vinton Danielle Belton
"The only way to solve racism in America once and for all is reparations."

Correctly Mistaken

54:22 min | 1 year ago

"The only way to solve racism in America once and for all is reparations."

"I was going on people. West Westchester from the correct mistaken podcast. If you haven't heard about anchor. It is the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me. Count the ways I and foremost is free. You know we say about life right? All good things in life are free. They got these dote. Don't creation tools allow you to record Eddie Your podcast? Right from your phone or your computer? Anchor will distribute. Let me. Say That one more time anchor will distribute your podcast for you, so it could be heard on spotify apple podcasts in many many more platforms. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. Think about it, no minimum. Come on record. Listen to make money. Crazy as everything. You need to make it podcast. Everything you need to make a podcast in one place Donald a free anchor or go to dot F. M. to get started. Nevada show. Wrong. What is going on the correct mistake in podcast? I'm your host West Cherry. Man Please. BE, please remember to rate review ascribe. I'll tell you what this times where you have got milestones, we hit. Certain peaks. Over show here today is definitely one of those peaks of milestones because I have before me today on the line, and we're so happy to have him here to podcast. He is exports Ellis. Commentator commentator for Fox sports one. He's the Co. host of the National Radio show that are couple with Rob Parker. He is also the president and founder of the King Movement. Which is knowledge inspiration and nurture through God and he's a hall of Famer. He's a hall of Famer from the Holy. Name School your holiday I didn't know that Tara. crispy saw a hall of Famer to on top of that, but it's Chris. Broussard, thank you so much for joining. Appreciate your time. It's my pleasure man. Happy to be here, thank you, Matthew showed. I appreciate it so. Let's start here I. I was doing some reading here from your novelist. On you and research and also things quite fascinating well first of all you travel a lot as a kid you were in terms of a lot of. Moving to and from your father was insurance. So how was that growing up? As a kid becoming Chris Bussard, traveling and living different places. Do you think that had anything in terms of what you're doing now? how you grew up in your upbringing. ABS- Boyd Van Rouge, Louisiana and as a baby before I was even the euro moved Cincinnati Ohio live there till I was seven? And then moved to Indianapolis Indiana for about four and a half years then moved to Syracuse New York for a year and a half ass. In to avoid Iowa a two and a half years, and in Cleveland Ohio where I was at for almost a year and a half before going to college in Ohio so yeah, I moved around a lot and it did it did. Impact me a great deal. Eight number one. Made my family closer. Because initially when you move, that's all you have. No people and make friends. All you have is your family. So I had a younger brother inches. My parents I think that made us closer as a family secondly taught me that you could really be happy anywhere. You know there were places I liked more than. Of, there were some places. Some places you know. I didn't like as much as others, but I was genuinely happy. May, you know good friends wherever I W- it. So. That was a lesson. It also taught me how to get along with different people. Types of people. Do it to adjust to. Different races. socioeconomic classes different groups of people in general. I never sat back and said. I don't. You know I didn't like moving around. But. I know my kids I live in New Jersey. And my daughters are now twenty two years old. But we're in a place where they really like it, they have Fran. Stay like your school and in all that stuff and inside aides. I really didn't WANNA move in once. They were settled in once. They were where they were at. It was a strong feeling within me not to move them out of so and I'm sure that some way that was related to all the move, and I did as a kid, so if impacted media were pros and cons, but overall. It worked out with the PHILLIES IF. I guess you had to get you alive travelling yourself because you being a sports reporter on the beat What have you get you had to go? Out Your and keep them more stationary sources you instead of moving around a lot. You move around in terms of your job. Do a lot of traveling. While they said Hoagies to keep that sense of normalcy for them, because that's what they I have three daughters myself and that kind of stuff that me and my wife talked about. To where we want to be stationed to Elsa funny thing, the reason why Chris even had this. How disease even happening because you do have twin daughters, and I have three and twin, so I have a twelve year old. A nine year old well, she'll be nine in seven-year-old south accident. I was like man. Give me some pointers on the on these kids. These girls coming up man because it is different. Especially my twelve year old she gone on thirteen, and it's funny when they're when they used to be a baby. Let me. Ask You this question sometime. Maybe for me. I've I've talked to my wife about it. Maybe I don't really get a good answer. Did you deal with this too as well? On your kids get to a certain age probably twelve thirteen years old, especially daughters. Do they get that kind of sense of? You're just like they don't want us to do what you? Like, no matter. What did you have that situation going? What's your daughter's name? Not Want anything to do with you just Kinda, they kinda. Give you the side. Hug. Look at you like you're crazy. Delaware right now with my twelve year old daughter. Like Hey, you can get some love or some odd I. I'm like you know in in these things Myself Chris. Well I know. What's the phase? Obviously, but this is something I can do this. You kinda encountered grown up. You know what your daughters as they were coming up. That's something that you went through as well. Yeah, I think it's natural is normal. And it happens the different degrees but some of that is good, too, because you. You're trying to raise the children to become independent adults. If they're always up under you. As they get older than that may show. They're not really ready to leave the nest. Eventually and become narrow, so I wouldn't worry about. It is somewhat natural. One thing I did with my daughter's. You know we had a very very close relationship. But I never show as they got older. I always wanted to keep those lines of communication of yes. Rack them about anything. About sex and drugs and you know just all types of things and I always wanted to keep those lines open so when I spoke with them. I never showed him my shock. Okay just say it. I mean unless was really agree just. Got To that. When we as I was just relating with them. If. They says something that inside I'm like what's? To have what's it know? On the outside, because I always wanted in the feel like you come and speak with me and talk to me about anything, and for the most part I think that's the case but it's a challenge man raising kids in today's world. So in in even more so. You look at the Times where yes. raise an African American. Children in I've in weather's boys or girls. There's challenges and so I, think you have to be very cognizant of those as a parent in general, and then as a black bear in this country and call. You know it's funny that you that's interesting that you say that because. Duly everything that's been going on now with the climate of our country and having daughters in black daughters as well but them not really knowing what's going on because they haven't experienced it. But. I'm seeing it because you know. My daughters have to take time. You know all that stuff that they haven't. You have people that do all kinds of different stories and narratives on those platforms, but the child discuss things with them in this tyler age. It's very very very difficult because they come to you and say Hey Daddy. What's going on with this in in? It's like well. Do you. Even having do do you engage him in that? They haven't had much experience in it, so you don't Wanna put everything on by. This is why we've been going through what we've been going through. And the one thing that they have a burn on them, but I do feel like in Chris. Really what? I'm getting work for my oldest one because he's really excellent questions when it comes to being. More aware, what's going on? Hey, Daddy, what? Happened with George Floyd what what? What's the situation? Then her seeing the video it's it spans all over social media on the in even trying to that it in his own selfish. To me, it's. Out of control, so it's almost trying to. Teach her one way, but then social media teaching her another way. For. How do you feel as if the best way to? Wake up! We find girls, boys, or girls a wister best way. Even though you know you got out there, you got other messages. That's GonNa teach your kids or at least gonNA. Explode your kids to certain things. What is the best way that we can go about doing the where there still hearing what they need to hear from us? Yeah I think there's a few things one. With your black children today I think it's very important for the parents to make sure they know how much they are love. How valuable they are outbreak, they are how they. Created, in the image of God like all of that is incredibly important, because they may not get that outside of the house in the world. And so you have to make sure that your house you know. Weather's with our our house. We have a lot of black art. Lot of African American art coca books. which had children from a young age? We were reading. African American oriented books to them. We celebrate clowns and did up a cultural thing, so we very much you know expose them. The Black Holzer firm near blackness. And we did that with I think that's important. I think it's also important if you're in. If your children are white environment. overwhelmingly white school or area unique. Them in contact with a lot of with other African American kids. That they can N even. All types of African American kids, but if you're if you're doing well. You're a fluent they need to. Be In contact with other African American kids of your socioeconomic levels. Well, because otherwise they can get a notion because they're gonNA see. On television in other things last struggle yet. We're living in poverty, and so if they are exposed to African Americans who are doing well like themselves? Perhaps they can get the impression that dirty only once or their unusual that issue as well. All other blacks are struggling like this so I think those are some things and it because it the constant struggle that you have on a fine line. You have to walk as an African American parent. Is You want your children to understand. Their history. And? Also, understand the world in America that things they may have to deal with. A woman, slights and things like that. Yet. You don't want them to grow up with a victim in talent. no-one feeling sorry for themselves. Feeling the whole world's against me, woe is me, and because if they feel like that, they may not be able to achieve as well as they can't. They may affect their academic progress to things like that, so that's the fine line you have to walk in. I think one way to counter the narrative desk all where a going to have to deal with slights, racism and things like that is to let him know for them in their blackness, especially with daughters. Because we did that with our dog, we our daughter Tell You We have black dolls. We re like I said. Stories are everything. Yet? They still came a point where they white dolls. My wife in our hearts. You. They were we talked to him about it now. They're adults twenty two years old. And they were just saying how as much as we did. They know we did just about everything you could. The images you're seeing on television. And everything are just constantly army white. Beauty and white women. You know. And I told them this I said. Look at may be. That's probably a big difference in growing up. As a black girl versus a black boy. Obviously is unique challenges that we as like midst face it. Black women may not. But. I told them in my growing up. I've never ever. Like I always felt proud to be black like honestly, it was the best thing in the world same he. was very pro black, but also just I just love in a big part of that. I believe was because I was a boy into sports. Was Essentially. My Life is you know lesser degrees, music and entertainment, and all that, but we blacks down the necsports. Dominate football basketball so for me, being a black male and being able to see a doctor J.. The Magic Johnson, and you know all these tremendous lack. Nothing that feels some is black. And then you throw in hip hop. Music, and all that, but as a girl and I told this to my, they say you know. We. Didn't you had that as a black boy, but we didn't have that any because black women aren't dominating, allow other areas that are reporting to my. They weren't into sports like that so. That's a challenge that I think as black prayers. We need to be aware of. And That's why I think is very important of black media. To promote black the beauty of black women. And I would even argue round skin black. Yes, he cut leaving in culture. We have elements of white supremacy in our own culture, because we were burst out of Chattel slavery and so. We need to at an our own wet forms. We need to promote. Black Beauty! not that you can't promote life skin blacks, of course to, but we need to promote black women who were Ralston Dr Skin look typically black. More more than any other form of black. You know because a lot of times. We promote black women look Indian. Spanich or some or white. And that's firm. We should promote that as well, but for the most part because of the racism in the white supremacy that we're all exposed to. We need to promote. Black women who look. Lack typically black and the beauty of being a black woman with Brown skin and black features and things like that. We need to promote that within our cultures will. Never on a never. realize that you're so right. Grow as a black man, even though the issue that we have we do have so many. Examples of why we will be proud to be a black man could dominate sports dominating entertainment, whatever the case may be in black women or girls growing up. They can't say the same thing. I mean the WNBA. You have some areas where you have black athletes, but they're not promoted as much as the black male athlete. The superstar blackmail athlete now. Do you feel like the media? Do you think they do not need to do more of you. See it at all when they promote black women do it. Do they do some type of job to promote black women? You're not seeing that at all within black media. Within media. From black men or may ops mainstream media yet media for mainstream media. Yes, Women! Where where you mostly black women's dominance in mainstream culture would be in. A Sports Vacuum Walton. Innate. Don't dominate it quite like black men, but they are very dominant. But you know. Women Athletes Female even in you gotTa Serena Williams who very much you know in the mainstream, another cocoa golf now another female tip. Back athletes so so you do see black women being dominant in sports to a slightly lesser degree as black men, but here's the thing. Email sports in America are not what male sports are not going to become for the most part, a cultural icon as female athlete regardless of your rights. Now a serene is somewhat have been icon, but that's a rare. You know. They're the. Male sports is the biggest staying in America. And that's what we celebrate our more than females words. He generates for much more money. The athletes make more money because they generate more and so that's the difference. You, obviously ass, female actresses and singers and things like that but I I just think. White supremacy is embedded in all of our institutions man Selena. Well I mean. The country was built or white supremacy yet. It wasn't built on freedom. As is Amiss, it wasn't built on Christianity as is missed. It was bill or white supremacy big, and you know that because if you think of it as a pair mid, Christianity? As you know and freedom which allowed people think? America was founded on. They were both submissive to white supremacists. So if people that consider themselves Christians in America, not in the early parts of America. Their Christianity stopped. When it came to whiteness. Okay, so they didn't treat black people like Christians to treat the. Or like Christian should be treated. because. They were black and not white, so the dominates. Mentality of America or culture of America was white supremacy when it came to freedom. Freedom was only for white people, yes. So the thing that dominated everything was white supremacy in anything else came under. That had to fit into that S. so that's why weather's. It's our educational system. The history that we're taught. How much African history are we taught in our Americans food when you I remember learning, not granted I'm older, but you learn some world history. About Asians, some of the dynasties Angus Con. For the most part even when you study world history. It was European his. And enact why as a tangent is very important for black families to try? Is Difficult because your children are usually on the study what they're learning in school? And then you know they got social lives in France and and all these other things. It is challenging to do this with your kids. But I think you need to make the effort to teach our children. Black history before slavery. Because, otherwise, you just starting at the Bacher. And any little bit. A progress seems okay. A you also look at it like well. We always been at the bottom. Latch. Adults because most of the dots we don't know any after news, not we need to understand what Africans were before slave. Back, there were great civilizations in Egypt Ethiopia. Eight Zimbabwe the western coast of Africa where most African Americans came from Mali, Ghana Songhai places like that, and so you understand that. You recognize that the read the weirdness situation is not because we're black and we're inherently uperior is because of the racism of America. That's why we're in. This situation is not because we inherently fear so I think it's very and what the way we did it was. When we celebrated crimes a lot of times we taught like blacks in the Bible and Black Biblical history, which was obviously before America's slavery, and so girls could grow up knowing that black people. Were royalty and black people have been kings and Queens, and had their own civilizations in, and obviously in the word of God there's spoken of favourably, so did these are things we do need to stress to our children. Because again they're. They're combat it with white dating face, white supremacy everywhere, so is the school system. It's we obviously see it. In the judicial system in the way lacks treated versus the way whites retreated. The world's drugs. Survey survey prove that blackstone do or sell anymore drugs, the white suit or any other rights, if act when it comes to hard drugs, last children actually do them far less. Yes. Yes. Does. It are arrested convicted in central prison or drug use is far more us. Than whites far more even we're not doing any more drugs than them. And, so because the world drugs drugs are going on all over the place. You're going on a Wall Street Corporate America, our great universities in this country, and in new okay in the suburbs and all that. The have a war on drugs. You Got Okesene. Some one place. In. Idea if you're GONNA. Beg Your Real. You go everywhere, but I'm saying. Focused it's not been a world now. It's been a war or minorities. Authorities using drugs as an excuse to arrest us in lock us up. Because, they're not going to carve now. Ohio State. In Michigan where drugs in a rabid audience college campus, going there and doing drug raids, and not going to Wall Street, and he's break corporations, no, and be whatever doing drugs or selling drugs. They're going specifically to the poor black and Hispanic neighborhoods, and trying to find the drugs in lacking people up as another example of the systemic we, we could go on and all stimuli, but. What do you feel about I've been dealing with? We're not dealing with I've been talking a lot of different people and people were talking about this concept to separate, but equal in terms of. You stating in zone. You participated in that I was participating that you were the future speaker where you are amazing. really really bothered del You were talking about how James Growl and Mohammed Ali cream do Jabbar it had some things to put together some social economic stuff for blacks to push forward Do you feel that is something? Could this be happy were telling me man? We're tired of this system. How about we do separate but equal you guys have. Are you guys have your stuff? We have our things and just do it like that. You were saying as well our education. There's things that we can do within ourselves. And do you feel like we should do more separate, but equal even though I know that we're all one, but do you get so tired of a way of system? It doesn't conform to you like W E B The. Boss said it best. How can we fell on? The system wasn't meant to protect us, so system wasn't meant to protect. Its own thing can set it up over here. How do you feel about that? Well it is very interesting. Discussion in study of whether or not African Americans would be better off like let's say at never had integration. And we had some black communities. I think we romanticize what it was like back into the you know we we are. We had our black businesses. We had the Negro League. We Romania. Bit Wasn't quite work. Right running things like that, but we did. Have you know lack Wall Street Tulsa rose with? You know you had lack communities at worth riding a so. It's an interesting discussion. I think if if we had never integrated. I think it many individual. African Americans. integration has tremendously benefited individual African Americans including my stuff, you know many of us who are in the mainstream in thriving individually and a President I. I can't imagine we'd have a black president. Had We remain segregated? But. It's a strong argument to be made that as a whole. That, we could be worse off now that the masses of black people because so many have been left behind. Yes, you know, and so I'm not making a definitive statement where the other, but I think it isn't. It will be an interesting case. And I think there are some. That have looked those things. But. As far as nowadays. Yeah I look? I believe in I have been typically call produce in the past because I felt it was unrealistic. But now actually feel like more than ever. The climate in America was support this. Where we're getting very close to forty, you saw many Democratic candidates or president were ringing up reparation this for the first time in decades it was. It was a mainstream conversations. And I believe so I believe in in the climate with the is never marches, and all that, and and how many wide street the involved in those. The only way the only way. To solve the racial problem in America. Is Reparations and I'm not for stimulus checks to black. America's now if that's a part of it. Fine. But I'm more for because institutional racism. Is is oppressing us is not about individual. Does this white person, light me or not a comedy. Institutions Yeah So I am for reparations that would address the institutions that have oppressed African Americans. And so, but that's a whole different discussion specific. Take credit I believe that's the only way. That you will solve this race or problem because we've been putting bandaids Horta one. Chris we will start right now. I gotta get my sponsor and we're going to stop right now back on the other scientists for a few minutes, Chris, bussard. West from the correctly mistaken podcast. Let me take a little bit about audible audible. Is the head Honcho? Number One. Top billing leading provider, a spoken word, entertainment and audio books ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs. They have titles in news business and my favorite self-development. You could download thousands of titles. Yes, thousand titles and listen offline anytime anywhere. You could be cooking. You can be exercising. You could be rollerblading. Whatever the case may be you have your headphones. You have your smart device. You have your audio book. The APP is free and can be installed on all smartphones and tablets. And check out this feature. You can listen across all your devices without losing your spot, so if you have audible your iphone listen to audio book. You have the audible APP on. Your had listened to that same audio book. 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Love it and last, but not least by math curtis fifty cent Jackson his audiobook. Hustle harder hustle smarter just dropped and listening to that right now as well so you can do as well audible. It is great like I. Say there's robust in anything that you WANNA listen to. They haven't on audio. Audible Now, if you WANNA go right now, you get a free trial today. My listeners get a free trial today. visit audible trial dot com slash correctly mistaken. That is audible trial dot com slash directly mistaken. Go to that. It's your free trial. Check it out. You'll love it. It's a new way. To. Get your information. It's a new way to read. The new way to read is to listen were audible. Get a today. You will not be disappointed now. Back to the show. To. Go Bethany, the side of the segment with Chris Bussar, we are so thankful for his time. His talent, he sports analysts commentator for Fox sports one. He is the Co host of the national. Radio Show odd couple were rob Parker as long as as as. Along with President and founder of the King Movement and we're going to talk about the king movie to as well a creepy four-year-old about here man, but you were talking some good gems about reparations, so let's go back to reputation in terms of will black people should get in touch with the democratic candidates what they're talking about. Well I just feel like the only way to really solve the racial problem once and for all American. Is, reparations. it because we've what we've done is put bandaids on our racial prop Bandai's have helped some we. We can't deny that there has been progress mate. But because we haven't dealt with the root cause of the problem. We always come back to a situation like this like floor. In the sixties, we had the riots and marches in civil rights movement in the late eighties early nineties. Types of stuff rodney king the million. Man March over and now in this generation every generation it comes along, and so it's going to continue to be that way unless we go to the root of the problem, which is slavery. At while it was race based. It was done for economic reasons N. Evens after slavery. Whether, it was the GI bill in a way it was racial racially enforced. The Social Security Act the federal housing lows of the Mid Twentieth. Century that created white suburbs ran line. Yes, you know the homestead act of eighteen sixty two gave whites the land west of the Mississippi for a dollar. Things like that economically, that's why blacks are so far behind whites economically in education and things like that, so we age, and until we go to the root and address it, there is always going to be. This tension is racial tension in our country, and you know it as a black person, yes. As whether you're patriotic. Unless. You just got your head in the same year. which some blacks do do I'll let you are totally averse to be in critical of white Americans or White America. Most black people there's this constant tension between you and your country. As much as you may like America. We fight for America. We believe in America and so on so forth. We participate in its in America. There's always this tension where why in my country do I have to warn my children about how to deal with police this? Why am I drink while the currently? Talk about how the system is against Yes al You gotTa Act, a certain way in Talker cert- way, and maybe don't let your hair that way your dress a certain way. Of Peas whites this. Always this tension, all of our for the most part, our bosses, our teachers are. People who are Bubbas. Ministers are right. There's always Incheon. Being Black and being in America, and that should not exist if this is our country. and. So until we address the root cause of the problem with reparations, that's engines always going to be there. What else is always going to be? There is white guilt. Even white guilt. Or fear? Why we know what that is, I'll say white fears. In. Many whites fear. One reason they may not want to give us equality and things like that is because they fear. What we would do. If we got things were equal or. They fear that we want revenge which we go, we do not. Get Revenge Noli. Any quality and live in peace. They because perhaps if this was done to them, they will want revenge. They may feel like we're GONNA try to take this. So the fact is white guilt. A white fear will always be present and black apprehension. About America will always be present. Unless we deal with the root cause, which is the reparation? Get to the core of it because I've always said you know the whole Connor Catholic issue and you're seeing now. How the NFL's colored biking turnaround? Saying that sorry, they were wrong. Actions are bigger than words. You know in terms of that situation, but if you look at this country. If you are a black person, you should know that this country was never built or never made with us in mind the from the constitution from the. The Star spangled banner whatever the case may be. This country was never built with else in mind being equal. So how how are we supposed to succeed in a country where there whole? Jefferson Jefferson. The four founding fathers they were slave owners, I mean this stuff is actual you know. Put Em in record it. How in the world, where we supposed to be striving in a country, where it's not for us to thrive in, and if you are some by this, this head your head in the dirt and don't understand that I don't know, how do we? How do we get from there? And that's the issue to get those people to understand it all. When it comes this whole holding of race what you feel when they say really and I heard Shannon Sharpe saying this the other day is how can we? Deal with a problem that we never created in the first place in terms of race of racism that we never we didn't. We weren't racist. We weren't racist against ourselves so how? To fix the problem in ourselves. Do you think this is something that we can really fix? In terms of the core or a has to be white people of influence, influence, power and money to say you know what this can't happen, no more this can't stand to. To be white people. NARA wireless five percent white. When a country that the economy, the educational system and the judicial system is controlled by life I. don't care that there's a black mayor. Is Illegal was a black president? Let's not get it twisted in act like this. Each police stealing were happened under Obama you. Down Yeah. This is not just donald trump yeah. So they control ninety plus percent of the wealth in America is controlled by whites. There is not been a black movement. In America that change things on a practical whether it was the abolitionist movement or to civil rights movement that did not. Involve white people. Abraham Lincoln had to decree the emancipation proclamation. White abolitionists this fall for that in the civil rights movement. Marching with you know blacks, and then you had. Lyndon Johnson and other politicians who changed that certain law. Voting Rights Act and things like that, so you've asked other movies like Marcus are. United Negro Improvement Association or the Nation of Islam by Elijah. Muhammad Malcolm X.. The benefit of those movements. With really psychological. They they they stressed black pride. A if you. If you paid attention studied, embrace certain of the things they were teaching. You felt proud to be black in a society that had always made us ashamed to be black. Malcolm X. in Marcus Garvey moved with that. Increase your pride in being black guess and make you feel good about being black, but that was internal. That was to the black community. As far as those those movements didn't do anything practically. In charge of changing laws and Only inside. Herve Akzo, so movement like that. which is what we're looking for now we need both. Yes, who looking for now need we need why? And White Allies in power national. I think the NFL players. who demanded an apology from the NFL Roger Goodell satelite lives matter and all that that was great, but he didn't go far. No, you need to demand action, yes. Jerry Jones is buddies with Donald Trump is arbor. IS CLOSE WITH DONALD TRUMP? Is He? Is He? Our money talks in America. Yes, but he thought it is. It's not. The politicians are doing what the people with money Taliban. Jess, and so if you can get these why owners of the NFL and other sports franchises to use their wealth, power and influence to get lost chains to get police reform done Pat that what you need to demand result just demand an apology because you say actions speak louder. May they used their power to hit changes, mate. And demand if they're really apologetic for squelching, the peaceful protests of their players, being Colin Kaepernick should be offered a job immediately. WHETHER HE TURNS IT DOWN! He should be offered a job period. As. We know he is not that he's not good enough. He could play Wii. Was He led this move, he started. What are you What are your thoughts in terms of you, said something about preach reform. You know that's what they were talking about big this country right now and I saw the clip and. Unfortunately my last school. At how about this before you know this about pre I wanNA. Talk About King Mohammed. Let's get the king movie. Let's talk about the movement and the movement that you're doing with King Movement. Tell me about that and what's going on with that? In terms of you've been the president of the founder. I saw on instagram. You guys were protests any other day. In New Jersey of you have certain chapters all over the country by looking into it, even something to myself. Get involved with if possible, so talk about King Movement, and what what the purpose of King Movement. became. Moment is a national Christian is movement. In as you said acronyms, knowledgeable nurture guy in our desire is to strengthen men in our daily walks with Christ's. Can Be Christ light Monday through Saturday. Yes, or maybe I should say Sunday afternoon through. This. Role. In our marriages in our relationships with our children in the workplace in fraternities wherever we're at Chrysler King is four men of all raced and that's important is because. Let's just keep it real, okay. Store in America, if white men who claimed plane. To believe in Jesus Christ and follow Jesus Christ if they really acted out. Yes, and give out Christ light user we wouldn't be. Had No problem. Would be able. I don't WanNa hear a white person, even a BLACKFORD KNACK say? Jesus is the ants. Come on if that one sentence is. In. Yes, but so many people claiming the allergies. Are there part of the prog into yes. We talked so. The answer is discipleship. Living Out your faith, and if White Christians Midway about that fake, this racism problem will. Win Even we were the needed a Martin Luther. King Frederick Douglass a Harry. It's up in all that, and so, and then of course was black as well living out our face. That's what King we do week. We try to help. Brothers live out their faith daily through encouragement, support, accountability, teaching, and brotherhood men need male bond. Yes, and typically the way we get is outside of crisis it on our sports teams. We get it in gangs. We get it in fraternities. We get it in lodges and those are fun. But we also need that male bonding within cracks. With other my man who are encouraging you N., even being examples for you of living for the lower Monday through like I said every day at. We can do that. That will strengthen our families that will strengthen our communities illustrated in our children. It'll strengthen our nation. And because we have work to do within ourselves, as do all human being juice. And, so that is what a king. Movement is about as you said. We're about. In, let me say this, too. Because you mentioned. We're marching and we have. Margaret Marshall Savage in your city called. Let my people breathe this. It was all races in male female. All ages marching. For Black Lives, making sure black lives matter. But we believe. In the full what I'll call the Full Gospel? Yes, which is personal salvation? And the morals the morality that comes with that. Right. And you know the family values. Gumby faithful to my wife and not committed adultery because of my without vacations, yes, for the. Yet we and we also believe in social justice because the Bible promotes both yes, typically you have Christians that focus on personal style vacation, and the individual morality and holiness, or you have Christians who only focus on social justice and don't call you as an individual to live in morality and holiness, we focus or both. Because they both offer of. Living Yes, and so I think that's where the marching comes from. We recognize that God is a god of this, and you can't read the Bible properly. Without seeing that as so that's where are marching for justice are speaking out for justice comes from. and then of course individually we try to walk out biblical principles in Biblical morality, and that is the combination. That's the full gospel objects to. As all believers, we'd love to spark a revival in this country. You know and. What was going to take, do so we believe. Man Chris NBA. July thirty first. That's cool right. No problem with that no problem with them starting up real quick no problem. By you know I'm so I mean. Does seem so. Department is ugly without NBA I'm cool. I'm glad they're coming back to let me say. Go. If, you're interested in learning more about Kanye and I know. You have my email, but you hit a king at King, movement DOT COM king at King. Movement Dot Com we do have chapter out the country this and which? Give men of feeling you belong knowing that you belong to something bigger than yourself or even your local church as we. We obviously are supportive. Come alongside and work with local churches, but men need to know you're not out there. Fighting the good fight by yourself, you have wrath, the country that are five net fight with you half audie and overcome, and so that's what the King Movement is about to go to keep emails at King at King Dot Com. If you're interested, be in touch with me. Brother I gotta run on. Less Glitzy, Chris Man Thank you. Talk just I've talked so right. There his the man crisp, Rusada appreciate his time so much his time, definitely his talent, he's A. Brother that is mainstream, but he understands are what it means for people and most support. He understands what it means for the Kingdom to make sure they were all continuing to press forward. Will we all? Are Together were one and were one body will one heartbeat could end of the day. Man Black White. You know Chinese Latino whatever the case may be were all under one planet. We'll all under one God so preachy crispy saw appreciate your time, brother. This is correct, mistaken podcast I'm your boy Wes Cherry on appreciate you guys listening I, appreciate, you guys support. For you not be no me man so I. Thank you guys so so much. Until then or till next time, love, everybody hate no-one this correctly mistaken podcast and I'm your host Wes Cherry. Be Blessed Ace.

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Champagne Sharks Book Club: Settlers Pt. 9

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3:12:01 hr | 11 months ago

Champagne Sharks Book Club: Settlers Pt. 9

"Hey champagne sharks has goi- t and we are doing and we are continuing with settlers and we're doing chapter nine. This one is really long. So we're going to end up doing half chapter nine for this episode and the second half of chapter nine in the next episode but after this the chapters get shorter so one have to read too much. More of this book will be able to do for some weeks multiple chapters and when episodes so without further ado We have winfield. Reading is prerecorded and also for winward done when it's time to talk this Don't forget to give your name. So the people listening at home have a name to put with the voice. But i'll remind you guys of that after the reading passages well so further ado. Let's get this started gin in the us section chapter nine neocolonial pacification in the us section one forcing democracy on native americans. We don't have to across the world to confront neo-colonialism since some of the most sophisticated examples. Right here the new deal reforms on the native american reservations during the nineteen thirties or a classic case of neo colonial strategy. The us empire has always had a special problem with the indian nations in that the varied ways of life were often communistic as us commission of indian affairs said in eighteen thirty eight common property and civilization cannot coexist the us government enacted a genocidal campaign to erase indian culture including prison schools for indian children suppression of indian institutions economy and religion. And still the indian nations and people survived resisted endured an am comrades pointed out the founding fathers of the united states equated capitalism with civilization. They had to give him the mentality to them. Civilization meant their society which was a capitalist society therefore from the earliest times the was against indians. We're not only to take over the land. But also to squash the threatening example of indian communism jefferson was not the only man of his time to advocate imposing capitalistic and possessive society on indians away to civilize them. The bad example was a real threat. The real reason the eastern indian nations from florida to new york state and from the atlantic's ohio and louisiana. Today so racially mixed is because indentured servants landless. Poor whites escaped black. Slaves chose our societies over the white society that had oppressed them beginning eighteen ninety s. We'd been red baited and brandon as commies in congress. See the congressional record and in the executive boards of churches that was a very strong weapon in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties and end the oklahoma area any indian traditional. Who was an organizer was called the communist so even a wobbly so we have always defined struggle not only as a struggle for land but also struggled to retain our cultural values those values are communistic values our societies were and all communistic societies the. Us government has always understood. That very well is not branded us. All the years as communist because we try to form labor unions or because we hung out with the iwk w or the communist party but because the us government correctly identified a political system. It did not make that a public issue because that would have been dangerous and because it has been far more efficient to say that we are savages and primitive not only did the indian nations resists but this resistance included that determined refusal of many indians to give up their collective land. This rejection capitalism was a hindrance for the open now recording your interests and the ranchers characteristically. The new deal decided in the words of the us. Commissioner of indian affairs that the indian if given the right opportunities could do what the government had failed to do. He could arrange a place for himself and his customs in this modern america. The new deal pesification program for the reservations was to give indians capitalistic. Democracy and self government under the direction of the us government bourgeois democratic a undemocratic trouble governments were set up with settling ristic travel constitutions paid elected officials new layers of indian civil servants in other words indians would be given their own capitalistic reservation. Governments to do from within or the settlers conquest had been unable to completely completely succeed at from the outside. This neocolonial strategy was led by a young liberal anthropologists john. Kelly had been appointed. Us commission of indian affairs in one thousand nine hundred eighty three to reform the reservation system unlike the openly hostile and repressive pronouncements of his predecessors. Call your spoke sweetly of how much he respected indian culture and how much indians should be freed to change themselves. Honeyed words indeed covering up for a new assault in the past. The government tried to encourage economic independence and initiative by the allotment system given each indian portion of land and the right to dispose of it as a result of the one of the one hundred and thirty eight thousand acres which indians possessing eighteen. Eighty seven they've lost all but forty seven thousand acres and the las area includes a land that was most valuable further. The government sought to give the indian the schooling of whites teaching him to despise his old customs and habits barrick. We have proposed in opposition to such a policy to recognize respect the indian s. He is we think you must be so accepted before he can be assisted to become something else. There is a smooth talk of the welfare administrator and the colonial official in those words noticed that the o log indians only one right the right to sell their land to the settlers having worked that strategy to its limits the us empire now needed to switch strategies in order to keep exploiting the rest of the reservation lands now washington pose as a protector of indian culture in order to change indians into something else. Officially indian culture had become another suspected ethnic remnant like saint. patrick's day parades. I would add color to settlers society. But instead of indian sovereignty culture economy and national development travel government was a local government. According to the rules of capitalist culture it was a partial reorganization of reservation life to capitalism the nineteen. Thirty four wheeler how'd act repealed. The eighteen eighty seven allotment act authorized elections passed new trouble constitutions to set up new neocolonial reservation governments establish a ten million loan funds to support the new government's and officially give indians preference for employment within the us indian service. The campaigns twist indian arms to accept. This new arrangement was very heavy. Us commission collier himself admitted that while the government had the power to force her as vicious to accept these bourgeois governments for the strategy to work. At least some number of indians had be persuaded to voluntarily take it in large numbers of indians heights to work in the indian service the numbers reaching forty percent of the total employees by nineteen. Thirty five nineteen thousand. Indians were hired to work in various federal programs while additional fourteen thousand worked in the civilian conservation corps relief camps close at twenty percent of all adult indians were temporarily employed by the federal government. The distrust and resistance were considerable. The times commented this difficulty has been recognized by the creation of the indian office of an organization unit of feel agents and special men who will cooperate with travel councils. Business committees and special trouble commissions in framing. The constitution now permitted still some fifty four reservations with a five thousand. Indians voted against the new travel. Government's history has proved that the main economic function of the neil colonial reservation. Governments has been to lisa way usually at bargain prices. The mineral grazing and water rights to the settlers. Great amounts of natural resources are involved very conservative. You're american estimates said indian lanza estimated to contain up to thirteen percent of the nation's coal reserves three percent of its oil and gas and significant amounts of of other minerals including uranium and phosphate instead of the practice of individual sale of small plots of land. Which could be blocked by an indians refusal to sell the new capitalistic travel. Government signed wholesale mineral rights leases with major corporations the navajo travel government led by the bureau of indian affairs sign leases as late as one thousand nine hundred sixty s that gave way never hope co for two percent of its market value so the impact of the nineteen thirties self-government reforms was a step of the economic exploitation of indian nations at pineridge the su- families were encouraged to end this since farming and move off their land and into government built housing projects and then lease the useless land to the settlers businessman. Those american ranchers pay an average of three dollars per acre each year to process indian land fought cheaper than buying it while the su who insists on staying on their land deliberately denied water electricity seed in last stuck so as to pressure them into leaving their land. The euro american ranchers who use indian land receive constant government aid and control the land and its resources still remains a steady preoccupation to the settlers empire even most of the food production of indian nations is taken by settlers in nineteen sixty eight. The bureau of indian affairs said that the reservations produce then one hundred and seventy million annually in agriculture hunting and fishing of this total estimated. That indians consumed twenty million dollars. Worth roy receiving another sixteen million dollars in rent seventy five percent of the total reservation food production was owned by settlers. Us imperialism literally created bourgeois indian governments other reservations to give it what it wanted to disrupt from within the national culture. These the government's led by the dick wilson c. peter mcdonald's of elements whose capitalistic ideology and income was tied to collaboration with the logic hapless world is also telling that those professional indians whose wellbeing dependent upon foundation grants and government programs such as vine delory junior also of his bestselling book custody fia sins praised the koya reorganization of the thirties. As the best thing that ever happened to them. When native americans overcome the neo colonial rule and assert their sovereignty against us imperialism as am has than the fixed ballot is reintroduced is introduced by assassination frame ups and even massive military repression. The us military moved in one thousand nine hundred seventy two to prop up the neo-colonial dick wilson regime pine ridge just as in zaire the neo-colonial mobutu regime had to be rescued in both nineteen seventy seven and nineteen seventy eight by airborne french foreign legionnaires and belgian paratroopers section to the rise of the african nation. The white bosna said who is making a war on them and is going to take the government but we were organizing for bread one of the camp hill alabama shakra defendants nine hundred and thirty one. The new african national struggle moved decisively into the modern period during the nineteen twenties in one thousand nine hundred thirty s. It was a key indication of this development that thousands of african communist took up the liberation struggle in those years years in which many african workers and intellectuals dedicated themselves so the goal of an independent and socialist african nation the masses themselves intensified their political activities angry increasingly nationalistic in this period nationalism started visibly shouldering aside all other political tendencies in the struggle for the allegiance of the oppressed african massey's the self self-defence activities spread among the masses. This was a critical time in the rise of the african nation and the critical time therefore for us imperialism. There's an incorrect tendency to confine the discussion of african nationalism in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties to the well known garvey movement as though it was the sole manifestation of nationalist consciousness the garvey movement who specific impact. We shall cover at a later. Point was but the point of the emergent politics of the african nation in labor in national culture struggles for the land in raising the goal of socialism in all areas of political life. Great explosion of previously pence up national consciousness took place among africans in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. It was a time of major political offensive and of embryonic nation building. This outbreak of militant african anti-colonialism did not go unnoticed by the us empire even outside the national territory itself. Us imperialism was increasingly concerned about this activity. One nineteen thirties. Report on radicalism. Among new york negroes noted the place of the negro as a decisive minority in the political life in america received increasing attention during the early postwar years department of justice issued a twenty seven page report on radicalism in sedition among negroes as reflected in their publications and the new york state lusk committee for the investigation of seditious activities published. A complete chapter in its report entitled radicalism among negroes the general anti-labour anti radical offensive of government and employers was also levels at the trade union and radical activities of the negro people for a time. Censorship of negro periodicals became so complete but even the molly liberal magazine crisis of the nwa c. p. edited by w. e. burger dubois was held up and the males during may nineteen nineteen in august nineteen eighteen the editors of the messenger african trade union magazine of a phillip randolph would jail for three days and second class. Mailing privileges were denied. The magazine the is in general and the left in particular have falsely portrayed. The african people within the us empire is no independent revolutionary struggle at that time but only civil rights struggle falsely. They picked your african labor and african socialism as only existing as minority parts of the american labor and social democratic movements. While the history of african politics is far beyond the scope of this paper is necessary to briefly show why u. s. imperialism was threatened by african anti-colonialism in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. What is central. It's across the revolutionary nationalist culture of african political trends in nineteen twenty one the african blood brotherhood the ab the first modern african communist organization and the us empire was formed in new york city defining defining itself as a revolutionary secret order. The ab raised the goal of liberating and bringing socialism to the african nation. In the black belt south the brotherhood soon claimed two thousand five hundred members in fifty six posts throughout the empire. Most of these members were proletarians as most of the garvey movement activists minors in virginia road records in chicago gama workers in new york etc. These african communist focused heavily on education work and on immediate protection purposes organizing arm self units against the kkk revival. That was sweeping the empire. Soon the police spotlight the brotherhood supposed secret organizers of african bacteriology during the tulsa oklahoma riots. The birth of modern african communism within the us empire was most clear in irrefutable evidence that the african nation was starting to rise. It was significant that this new organization of african communist without hesitation proclaimed the goal of socialism through national relation and independence the existence of socialist minded vanguard naturally implied at the base of that peak. The massive africans will pushing upwards awakening politically creating new possibilities. Much of the present written accounts of african politics in this period centers around the events in the refugee communities of the north the quote unquote renaissance tenants organizations fighting fictions in the chicago ghetto african participation in union drives in cleveland in detroit and so on all these struggles and events were indeed important parts of the developing political awareness. But they're not the whole of what was happening. The intensity a full scope of the african struggle can only be accurately seen we also see the southern region of the us empire and particularly the national territory itself there under the terroristic of the settlers occupation. The african revolution started to develop despite the most bitterly difficult conditions. While you're american trade. Unionism has always tried to restrict african labor's political role. No propaganda continue basic fact that in the south african label was a primary factor in labor struggles. Notice that we say. African labor was the primary factor not minority partners not passive students awaiting at the lead of your american trade unions and certainly not just supporters of white trade unionism in the south. African label was a leading force for class struggle but that cost struggles po. The african the beret struggle starting in the early nineteen twenty s african labor in the south struck out in a remarkable series of all struggles. This was part of the same explosion of african consciousness. That also produced the garvey movement the great breakthroughs in african culture in african communist movement. These things were not completely separate but linked expressions of the same historic political upheaval of the whole oppressed nation when we think about the early organizing struggles of the united mine workers union in the southern appalachian coalfields. We lead to picture in our minds poor white hillbilly minors walking the picket lines with rifles enhance. This is just more settlers sick propaganda. The fact is that modern unionism in the southern appalachian coalfields came from a black thing. Man launched and led by african workers in the nineteen twenties political explosion in both initial nine thousand nine hundred eight strike and the great nineteen twenty two twenty one strikes in the alabama coalfields. The majority of strikers were african in fact in the main nineteen twenty two twenty one strikes fully seventy six percent of the striking miners were african. Those were african strikes much of the severe anti and violent repression of strikes in the nineteen twenties. South was linked by the perilous to the need to stop the rising of africans even outside of alabama the coal miners union often depended upon african struggle one african miner who worked in the minds of mercer county west virginia for forty three years recalls. The white man was scared to join the union. At first around here the black man took up the organizing jobs and set it up. We went into the bushes and met in secret. And we had all the key offices. If you're the white minds would slip around and come to meetings after. They found out that the company wasn't going to run them away while they began to pay more often and quite naturally when they became the majority the elected who they wanted for their presidents vice presidents and treasures. They left a few jobs. The secretaries for the negroes but at the beginning all the main offices in the locals were held by negroes. The offensive was not merely about job issues but there was a political outbreak spread among african workers in january general in nineteen nineteen thousands of african workers in the south from the national brotherhood workers. A common african workers union it among the dock. Shipyard railroad workers in norfolk and newport news virginia in one thousand nine hundred eighty three african postal workers in washington. Dc from their own union the national alliance of postal employees this offensive of african labor advanced throughout the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. In the minds in the birmingham. Steel mills on the ducks. The power in the south of african labor was being unchained so much information about the struggles so much of this historically has been obscured and put aside their all of african labor in shaking. The empire in those years was much larger than most believe. This is no accident for the main sources of us labor history. You have been the various works of the euro american left. These works all have. In common and press nation chauvinism in this regard such supposedly conflicting left writings as the cps as labor's untold story by boy in maria's the weather underground organizations prairie fire the syndicalist labor history books strike by jabe richer or the read papers of the revolutionary union. Now osce p. o. Commit the same distortions. The revisionist take part in. The miss history was one great tidal wave of anti colonial rising by oppressed africans. The pieces of history are then scattered so as to leave no visible sign of the giant stature of that african development some pieces of bleached stripped of their national character and annexed by the euro. America radicals as part of their own history. The history of african industrial workers in the north suffered this fate some pieces such as the militant sharecropper struggle and the leading role of african. Komen isn't the appalachian south have been buried. Matters is a ho- are distorted to shrink. The african story take one example. Destroy around the scots bro boys. The african teenagers frame for raping to set the girls always brought up while the widespread excitement and unique in the nineteen thirties. Over the defense cases of africans who for the seller oppressors is mentioned. This is just part of the general distortion of de emphasizing. The intense rising the african south itself and its nationalist character. Indeed many of the most widely used black studies ticks such as the bracy meyer and ruddick black nationalism in america or the huggins kilson and fox key issues in the afro american experience of assurance that by nineteen thirty africans in the us had lost interest in nationalism nationalism. They tell us was just a passing phase back then on the contrary we must underline the fact that the struggles of african labor were and are part of the political history of the entire african nation and can only be correctly understood in that context. Those african labor struggles far more important than we have been told in the major nineteen thirty six nineteen thirty seven. Us seamen's strike for example. African sale is played the decisive role in reaching victory. That was a strike that funny one. Union rights on all east coast shipping led by ferdinand smith the jamaican socialists who was vice president of the national maritime union and the twenty thousand african seaman. Who are the majority of the workers in the shipping industry of the southern and gulf coast ports shut down those ports completely until the employees gave in african label was gathering a mightly mighty force in the south on its own national territory. The colonial contradictions became most intensified when these people struggles caught fire in the cotton fields of the great oppressive african tenants and sharecroppers their the rois nerve of the euro american settlers occupation was touched since the struggle is fundamentally over the land. Revisionism has tried in. Its miss history to picture. These sharecropper struggles is mina conflicts in backwards sector of agriculture allegedly marginal to the main reno struggling auto steel and the rest of the northern heavy industry. The sharecropper tenant shrugs was central hal of because they involve the main learning force of the african nation. And because they will full over the land that's why these struggles were four out at gunpoint. The african sharecroppers and tenant farmers struggles did not and could not take the public mass dimensions of northern union organization. Smoldering under the heavy handed lynch rule of the settlers occupation the african plantation struggles with seventy break the surface in an intense conference shape confrontation while the issues will couch informs forms of pay rest hours tenant's rights etc. The underlying issue of contention was the perilous slavery of colonial oppression unlike the industrial struggles in the coal mines and steel mills. The african struggle on the land immediately and directly threatened the very fabric of your american society into south. For that reason they were met by strained. Setlow violence backed by the imperialist state in july nineteen thirty one. The empire was electrified by the news at a secret organization of african sharecroppers had been uncovered in camp hills alabama even worse from the settlers viewpoint was the fact that these sharecroppers had engaged in a shootout with the local sheriff and his plans to deputies at a time when an african south would take his life in his hands just in raising his voice to a local settler. This outbreak created settler panic throughout the colony. Especially when it became known that sharecropper said in african communist organizers the alabama sharecroppers union had begun secretly organizing intel pusa county in may of nineteen thirty one within a month. They had gathered over seven hundred members under set latino colonial rule. This effort was of course conspiratorial members when the only pleasure secrecy but swan wanted execute. Any african betrayed the struggle to the settlers. Nevertheless it was felt necessary to risk security security in order to rally sentiment behind the planned strike. Weekly mass meetings will begun. I secretly as possible at nights and local church. But these stirrings had alerted the police forces at the sharecroppers second mass meeting july fifteenth nineteen thirty one the gathering was discovered and attacked by arm settlers. There talladega county sheriff. Young and force of plants or deputies broke into the meeting right at the beginning beating cursing only the only only the gun drawn gun held by the chairman of the meeting. Allow people to escape the next night. After a feverish day of settler reinforcements sheriff and the large group of two hundred arm settlers went to prevent a planned african meeting and to assassinate the leaders the settlers first targeted ralph grey one of the most militant sharecropper than one of the main players. Gray who had been out on god. That night was shot. Down without paulie by the settlers. As soon as he was identified badly wounded he told his compatriots that he had emptied his shotgun at the enemy but had become too weak to reload and continue fighting. This atlema blessed satisfied. That gray had been finished off. I was later hearing that. The wounded sharecropper had been brought home by car still alive. The settlers regathered tech. This house. great was killed in his west head was fractured by beating. But a defense god of africans hidden nearby feel sniped at the invading settlers. Sheriff young was critically wounded and the deputy was also shot. This unexpected organized resistance by africans. Push the settlers into a frenzy of counter-insurgency taft homes. One of the arrested sharecropper said after his release they blew up the car gray with brought home in their arrested people wherever they found them at home in the store on the road anywhere all the white buses a sheriff that day and where they seen a colored man. They arrested him or beat him up. I was put in jail freddie evening. The boys who were putting friday morning was beat up and had to make them tell but none of them told even those mass arrests generalists heroism and killings failed to break the african struggle on the land. We can understand why we look at. Ralph grey himself. His role in the struggle grew out of his own oppression of his own rejection of the all embracing colonial occupation suffocating. Him greg called on his brothers and sisters to refuse to do plantation label for then prevailing wages until it pusa county fifty cents per day for african men forty cents per day for african women. He and his wife would work over the state line in georgia where plantation wages were slightly higher leaving the oldest son home to for their chickens and pigs in effect gray had started strike of african plantation labor urging everyone to withhold their labor until the settlers raise wages so sheriff young singled gray out. He told me that he and his family had to come out and chop cotton on the sheriff farm. Obviously of grace admitted then the attempted shrek would be undercut gray refused then gray had a fistfight with his landlord while the grease on their own check. They had to rent farmland from the local mail carrier. Mr langley incidentally this was very common. Not only the plant is in the middle classes. But even the working class settlers and the african colony where bosses over the african colonial subjects many many landless settlers themselves rented farmland from the banks and the plotters which they then had worked by. Sharecroppers day-laborers while african sharecroppers were enthusiasm eligible for new deal farm loans for seed and fertilizer. The common practice in the south was for the settlers landlords. To just take the money when ralph grace arrived his landlord who is also the postman hadn't signed it under the pretext that he delivered to the bank for gray. of course. the settlers kept the money himself. Great finally wait for langley at the mailbox and they got into a fistfight gray was among men because he was standing up. The colonial oppression was so suffocating that despite any dangerous the ralph graves of the african nation. We're moving towards revolution. That's why the embattled sharecroppers sickly wrote away to the communists and austere help africans were picking up the gun bash attila something about the political direction even defense trials of individual african sharecroppers who'd resorted to continue to draw attention throughout this period the old dell walla case in nineteen forty two created newspaper headlines demonstrations throughout the us empire. The richmond times dispatch said the most celebrated case in virginia criminal. Annals older wallace case is being watched with interest by groups of whites and negroes in every state of the union while the shot and killed his set landlord who has seized the well of families entire wheat crop for himself is interesting that the landlord oscar davis was not a land owner but a poor white who had african sharecroppers were part of his rented land for him in the walla case. The neo times. Editorially calls for communion his execution on technical grounds. The faith of the colored people in their country is deeply involved in what happened to although walla enemies would like to break down this faith. If governor dot in grants desired commutation he'll be helping his country's reputation all the dots gained and yellow skin. People wallow was quoted okay. I think that's a good place to take a break. That's the middle of section nine point two so yeah the execution of odell waller things a good place to stop it and as usual. Have no excuse for this. I should have it handy and ready by now. And fact i should just have it printed up but The usual questions hand these what they are. I'm dropping the ball today. Let's see Actually in the meantime we can just take general thoughts. Does anyone have anything they want. Wanna say in particular about what they read. While i pull up the questions okay. I found the guiding questions Thanks winfield which people slash groups that the chapter slash section feature. What were the goals. What tactics today us and how their actions fit into your historical trends. The group swear. I'm the native americans also introduce yourself. Oh winfield The groups were the us government. Native americans african american labor settlers in general. I think that's about it. Really and what. Tactics were their goals. And what tactics. Today us That's open to you or anyone else who wants to jump in. Don't want to be the one the answers. All the questions This funky of jump in a since the chapter started with native americans can start there. I think generally their goal was to keep their existing communities and land To what they had given but the tactic but the settler society the us their goal is to to integrate Them into us society in such a way that allowed the settlers to take control over their lands and also disarm them as a potential force against against them a and So they had like a sort of true to prong approach which was to try to buy off. Try to buy them off to buy some some of them off and get them to accept Terms that were favorable to us settlers In which they would basically except being part of the settler society obviously they wouldn't be equal members of society but they would sorta buy into the capitalist settler society's values and then the people who did did buy into those they will be used as a weapon to weaponize as a weapon against the remaining native americans who didn't want to sorry going and how did their accents fit into historical trends. I think one thing i would say is in general whether in america or other places when you oppress people totally and thoroughly it gives people nothing to lose and they kind of touch on here where they say that despite how aggressive in terrible depression was There are making steps toward progress. And i would say is not even in spite of but probably even because of that get gave people like ralph gray the wherewithal to stand up and getting a fistfight. Because there's pretty much no other option available available to you now so indisp- passage it says Gray was a marked man because he was standing up. The colonial oppression was so suffocating that despite any dangers the wrath grays of the african nation nation were moving towards revolution. So yeah people were desperate. Had nothing to lose. Which i think is kind of different than now. Because now we're giving the illusion of inclusion which i think saps a lot of are a lot of our Canary spirit not just for black people but in general but especially for black people now people just get so orgasmic over voting and i think back in the days even voting wasn't Enough seen as enough to undo everything that was going on as it is as it is now but we have a lot of mascots. A lot of Tokens a lot of these kind of superficial protections. That i think make people believe in the system in a way that it didn't before That's my answer for like how here historical trends. But i'm also open to other people's answers to that question. Would i also remember his They were saying that food production was controlled by the settlers and for anybody. That's posing a resistance to anything. The one of the most important things you want to have is your own enough food infrastructure. So that way you could hold sustained resistance but Even they said most of production of the indian nations is taken by settlers that means they controlled in terms of food production and the also implies that these people were here i had. They knew the land they they they would have employed possible other means to produce food more technologically. Modern efficient means even that you implies also been withheld and if you look at the situation today that seems to be the case you know that they're not using things that would help them even though it would violate any kind of traditional way of doing things like tractors and stuff like that so it seems like there's also like a war going on the settlers knew that conducting a war against these people are not only deny them. You know the essentials of life or have full control over by the also controlled the dissemination of any kind of technology to these people. Ca- stink about it if you're paying them even two or three percent they're gonna be able to afford those things so there's like There's like a outright campaign. A war being conducted. Even if it's cold against those people. And i think that's that's a tactic the us seizes lot. Today it was this data salita I also wanted to talk about Something that stuck out to me in the very first part of this book Where it says the us government enacted a genocidal campaign to a race indian culture including prison schools For indian children I've been reading a lot of books about the native american reformed schools and wanted of tactic. Set really makes me think of is the indoctrination of children and it makes me think about how how long how long of a play a lot of this stuff is. Is you know you have. The settlers were county countering. The native americans the indigenous peoples on point in time in what they've done is create a system in which they are pretty much americanizing. Dare the children of these indigenous people So that they're more easy to go ahead and simulate in essentially control. And i see a lot of that Just you know from a media sense to in our culture today i. It's not release forceful as anybody kicking down. Your door would like machine guns or anything like that but there is somewhat of an indoctrination in very subtle and refined indoctrination. In my opinion. I think that to some extent i mean even i think when i was you know reading a lot about what was happening to a lot of these children who are being kidnapped by is agents rate and separated from their parents that they were being sold at these adoption centers And that just. I mean that just seems to me exactly the same thing. That's like that was happening with these reform. Schools is that you're going to take these children and then you know kind of force them to them be little american kids in some weird evangelical household for forty thousand dollars a pop lake. It's it's thickening. That i mean that's still like i feel like it's still like a straight like record like thing today kicking endorse today to take people's children to then sell them either. I mean it's either. You know ice agents or succeed. Yes the i think. I think everything that Winfield adidas and and you have also is right on the money. I think just in terms of how it fits into historical trends. I would. I would say that you could. You could easily see these exact same things Being perpetuated in other parts of the world. Especially if you could africa The way that the car was broken up and divided and then after the full-on colonialism ended how the europeans still maintain A lot of control over the food production and also the not just the like mineral reserves but a lot of the food production and then The whole then missionaries as an spreading western religion as ways to sort of indoctrinate people. So i think. I think it's pretty interesting that the same strategies seem to be a used everywhere. Moving forward the questions issa kind leaving anything out if so what can you speculate. Why and no is appropriately. Finance to by people don't have to feel pressure just to say something to make an answer so totally valid answer. Oh i couldn't think of anything that his gov. I couldn't think of anything really that he left out. There was another thing that stuck out to me. I being a that kind of like chain when i first read this like kind of like change. The way i think about a lot of things Was this paragraph on page. One hundred it goes. I even most of the food production in india nations taken by settlers in nineteen sixty eight. The bureau of nina farris said that their reservations produced than one hundred seventy million annual annually in agriculture hunting. And fishing of the social the bi estimated that means only consume twenty million dollars worth while receiving another sixteen million dollars in rent. Seventy five percent of the total reservation. Food production was owned by settlers. Interesting there was like these. Are you know the unions are producing on the agriculture and fishing cetera. Would you think of is like in kind of like in like the whatever like vulgar marxists way of like you know. They're producing to sell right. But i think it's interesting that's a key highlights that they're not selling to indians right. They're selling to the settlers. And i think that that kind of like where the actual endpoint of production is is ending up. A is something. That's not highlighted on. I feel like by a lot of vulgar marxists. Who talk about you. Know production right and and i'm producing this thing and then it's kind of like stolen by my boss right but you two are kind of getting the products that are stolen from around the world right. That are being then at you. And i have. This kind of like is really a lot of the ways. I think about a lot of stuff that that quoted like it just shows how much how much wealth there is being stolen from them that they that could be used for their own for their own benefit and power. Okay so the we ask it out that we did does aci offer any solutions. It might be too early in the chapter to ask that since it's only the beginning. Part of the chapter in chapter goes on for a while but in case anyone does think in the short amount. You've read that there. A solution strong in feel free to share any that. You think you've learned spotted. Okay i'm going to take that as a no okay. How do we relate this history to the present. How do public schools deal with this history or exclude slash. Editorialize it for me. I've never seen this discussing any school. So it's totally excluded and in terms of how it shapes everyday life because nothing's because this entire process is right on stops you know it's unabated all this time at this point. The government seems confident. Enough even see some of the things happening in canada where they could just go and take what they want. you know. They had standing up just a few years ago and Yeah that's just another case case. This is another example of that right. You're i would drove into the not this alone but situations like this in different parts of the country had a lot to do. Probably with today's modern Wealth gap. I mean in addition the slavery. Of course all the things that happened since slavery where there are so many ways to take a black families wealth or swindle them out of their land or whatever. There was no recourse left for you to eventually leave. you know. it's definitely had a role in history in that way as well i would say any other answers before we move on and also That's the last of Pre written questions so if no one has anything to add in terms of that then we can just have an open floor where you just talk about any thoughts that this half of the chapter gave you. Hey what's up. This is data's again Yakult brought up something. That was really cool in the chat. That i noticed too are talking. The the left co-opt Tation of the black struggle. I think that we had a few Points in there about You know how. There was a lot of revisionism with regards to a lot of labor unions in even communists in socialist type of elements and so forth. I don't know what you wanted to expound on that a little more so it was a very good point has aku spoken yet. Maybe a noisy place. Yeah yeah owners phone. I'm sorry bro. Yeah because i noticed i noticed. He hasn't been speaking. So i assumed he must have been someplace on noisy man. My bad story look. Phoenix was up. Yakub's usually whenever our vocal contributor. So when he wasn't responding i figured he must be someplace noisy but He didn't make didn't make that point about about that. And i hope he gets a chance to share that later for sure. Think there is an interesting thing. Interesting point sokaiya makes about that when he brings up how. There's a lot written about like the harlem renaissance and a struggles and auto worker factories. And but not about struggles tenant farmer struggles and wage struggles. It was sharecroppers in that sort of thing and i found that interesting and really true Winfield was talking about earlier about how you never hear about a lot. This history and i think that's really true but also i have heard about like you know like auto struggles and stuff like that right but you never hear about like ten armor struggles in the south and mike arm struggles between like these really really petty landlords like these really poor guys who are like you know who are renting out something they're renting like and which is i think really interesting 'cause lake. There's all these stories about like kind of black white unity in auto worker struggles in the north right and this also place where like. I don't know it's just like i feel like it's a place where like white loves can be like. Well we like you know. Took part too but like an attendant farmer star was that you can't say that they like us any part at all except as exploiters okay Any other thoughts or the wanna get to the second half of today's readings. Allow you guys going once. I got a this is a rose is a quick comment. Slash like question I'm from canada. So i'm largely relating this to history down country to similar and around here. This chapter made me think of the history of the residential schools in canada which is a really really horrifying chapter of our history. And what. I'm wondering if I'm wondering if america's shares that same exact mechanism. Because i don't see that exact thing brought up yet may be Brings it up later. The residential schools are with urine natives. Right yeah yeah. You're are like complete like kidnapping native children bring into this boring school and just like abusing brainwashing them to be white like that was the whole goal and an obvious gonna say. I don't know the answer to that. But i have to guess that are coming up to actually ask about that because they run a podcast for natives in canada and one of the things that they were talking to me about is how different Native politics are in america and in canada. But what. I understand candid the the natives and if anyone listening knows more about this. Neither when i'm butchering anything. Please forgive me admit. I'm not well versed in this but What i understand there are a little bit more radical and stuff and the native politics in canada In many ways because of how much more horrible. A lot of the Things people remember our where in america. From what i understand even though it horrible to you're more likely to fine a lot of natives who still can't have buy in into american exceptionalism or able to muster up a former patriotism it was. It was very interesting. something. I want to actually laborat- with them. More when i have them on on their show and they touched on but it was something i wanted to have them on. Champion sharks to talk about but long story short from what i understand. This seems to be much more of an effort to keep a lot of the more. Heinous chapters of the government did tomatoes alive in canada than there seems to be in america. I i'd say that that's something that's been happening more recently. And yeah it is it is largely due to. I'm not sure what. The situation is in america at least in my area of canada. There is a. I'd say a pretty strong sense of of native politics especially centered around labor because i'm gonna fishing area and there's a lot of conflicts over fishing rights and a pricing that in the news a little bit But i'm not sure about the other areas of canada because I know that different tribes have kind of different Conflicts going on Yeah i know that. I don't know if it if the like what the differences are and the comparison between problems. But i know a residential schools was also pretty widespread in the us and for the basically the same function. I just don't know exactly like if it like what the differences are if times are different or anything but i do know that it's a it's a sort of a shared history to some degree achey. I've loved to learn more about it. But yeah and like. I said sure i butchered a lot of that so please don't write me but i mean well right me barack me in a spirit of of tolerance but yeah we're going to have those guests on and i'm going to take questions from people to ask them because this is something. I'm very curious about too but that was a general. It's just that i got that. One of the one of the podcast hosts told me that she came from america to Canada to join academia and she said that because she's kind she finds herself a little more radical that she felt more at home and Canadian native politics then in america where she was saying that They still have a lot of native vote. Tips in in D- american reservations. You'd be surprised. People are still kind of are very liberal democratic party and believe in american exceptionalism. It's it's interesting. I'd like to know more myself about why that difference arises any other thoughts on the chapter before we move forward just a little thing i do a. He does bring up really briefly a in part one of the reform schools Sprint are. it's like it's mentioned like thinking just one sentence a but it is. I think he he talks a lot about kind of like the kidnapping of children in previous chapters as well I don't think you. I don't think he really goes in depth into a into the boring schools reformed schools or whatever in this book at all. So i'm going to start the audio again to pick up where we left off and without further ado here we go. In these defense cases. The connection to the lodger anti-colonial issues is readily apparent. And the t davis defense case. It edmonton arkansas. Read across the river from memphis tennessee and nineteen forty three. The african tenant farmer was sentenced to ten years in prison for defendant. His family's house against settlers breaking in alleged searching for stolen goods freshly deputize settlers harassing african families when davis refused to open his door to an i and identified white men a settler. Dippy started breaking it down when the deputy kicked in the bottom of the door he david started shooting through the door to scare them off. That restaurant was not just continuous racism but a campaign to dry to drive africans. They're off the land that area in crittenden county had been african stronghold off to the civil war. Crittenden was loss county in arkansas. The nineteenth century to have african sheriffs and county officials. Edmonson self was establishes an all african town in that period the entire population stores real estate and for men being african. Finally the plants is managed to organize a major on the attack on the town. Many of its people were driven out and the african leaders would deport from the state. Most of the african landon homes was still in by the pontus. Desiring only a limited number of africans to work Occupy land labor is the local capitalists used tear. It's keep the population down and stop any africans who tried to own land. It should be evident that behind. These african sharecropper intendant struggles loomed large issue of the and the lodger rising despite the savage counterattacks by the settlers garrison. The africa's struggle refused to quiet down in alabama. The thirty one mass arrests terror and assassinations fail to exterminate the sharecroppers union the next year another shootout took place in talladega county on december nineteenth nineteen thirty two. The plenty deputies kill for africa's attack on the organization. The brief battle was so intense that the settlers attackers were forced to withdraw after they ran. Low on ammunition for deputies were slightly wounded by african return fire. Five africans was sentenced to twelve to fifteen years in the state penitentiary for the shootout as late as nineteen thirty five. The african sharecroppers union was leading almost three thousand cotton sharecroppers a strike that had begun in bloody lowndes county on august nineteenth. Nineteen thirty five. I'm confrontations a small-scale was taking place throughout the south there were of course many euro sharecroppers and tenants as well in the south most of them were extremely poor a poverty whose roots lay in the original defeat of the abortive confederate nation for them. The possible path of class conscious struggle was visible unique. Union the southern tenant farmers union was formed entire renzo saw in one thousand nine hundred thirty four to follow this path. The stf you started by two southern euro american social democrats h l mitchell who owned the dry cleaners and henry east again station. Operator they union involve many thousands of sharecroppers tried tried several major strikes and was notable in the rural south of that time for being heavily integrated briefly. The stf you was even part of the national cio before splits between settlers radicals led to its stor and had the same prominent role in official nineteen thirties. Us unionism that the farmworkers you have w dozen today's afl cio the stf. You feel politically. Because it could not resolve the relationship between oppressor and oppressed nations could find no other basis for workers union the other than reformism under oppression nation domination how wide the go freely was on. The land can be seen from an incident in oklahoma. Sef you leader. H l mitchell had gone to durant oklahoma on an organizing drive addressing a group of choctaw indian farmworkers mitchell called on them to get organized by joining the stf. The choctaw leader simply ended discussion by saying indian or organized when white men and black man get ready to take back the land. We joined them. The stf us integrationism was just an effort to arnesen. Use militancy of the african masses to fight battles. The poor whites could not sustain themselves african tenants and sharecroppers with a hardcore strength of the sef few the steadfastness alone permitting enough organizations to hold together so that the poor whites has something to cling to h l mitchell who always insisted on set. The control of the union himself had to admit that intimidation moves with generally more successful against the whites than the negroes. The latter have more sense of organization and the value of organization a greater sense of solidarity. Even this social democratic union could not successfully abso- and tamed the nationals energy of its african members. The primary organizers for the s. T. a few in its formative. Years was african vice president. Reverend e b mckinney mckanie related to the. Stf you end. it's radically your americans. Only to the degree that he felt africans thereby gained and self organization and political strength. This row preacher turned out to be both much better educated than most of the settlers union activists and african nationalist. One historian remarks though to work with whites. He was race conscious. Having been influenced by marcus. Garvey negro nationalism and his people remained primarily the negro union members. Badly wounded by us. Imperialism's terroristic kind of blows. The african share cropper struggle in the late nineteen thirties. Continue to search for new directions as late. As nineteen thirty nine there was considerable agitation. That year reverend mckinney. Quit the stf you in protest saying that the negro is the goat of the stf. You off thirteen. African tenant from union locals in arkansas. Quit the stf you and joined the rival cio union group these african sharecroppers. We're trying to take advantage of euro american labor. Fractional infighting plan those factions off against each other attempting to find the situation with the most resources and leverage for themselves in january nineteen thirty nine thousands of dispossess landless sharecroppers in south eastern missouri took the highways in a major demonstration to dramatize dead demand for bread and land. The share cropper setup a tent city lining the roadsides of a national highway this protest which lasted for ten months quote empire wide attention and it was an early forerunner to the one thousand nine hundred sixties freedom watches and other sites such actions. It was a very visible sign of the struggle of africans to resist leave in their lands to resist imperialist dispossession practice showed that african sharecropper and ten at labor struggles only had a close character but were part of a larger national struggle. There were anti colonial struggles. Having the goal of removing the boot hill of set lucky patient off of african life and land in disturbing the african masses rural as well as urban sharecroppers well steelworkers were creating new forms of organization trend mass struggles of very kinds and taking steps towards revolution. Again it is important to recognize the meaning of the reality that africans were picking up the gun and raising the need for socialist liberation. This gradually developing struggle was against us imperialism and had a revolutionary direction in the thirties comey's and grew taken root not only in the refugee ghettos of the north but in the south as well primarily this political activity took form within the communist party usa which the ap joint while we can recognize a cpa usa as a finely as a settler ristic. Potty of revisionism is important to see that in the deep south at that time the ep usa was predominantly an underground organization of african revolutionaries. The cpa usa was accepted. Not only because of its labor and legal defense activities but because in that period the see psa was opening espousing independence for that press. African nation hosea hudson and african steelworker. Who played a major role in the cpa usa in alabama in the nineteen thirties. Points out that the party of his personal experience was in reality and african organization up in the top years and thirty three thirty four thirty five. The party in birmingham alabama was dominated by negroes at one time. We had estimated around birmingham about six or seven hundred members and host of alabama. It was considered about one thousand members. We had only a few whites. And i mean a few whites so that in the african nation not just a small intellectual vanguard god not just a handful but a significant number of africans were illegally organizing for socialist revolution and national liberation. Hudson makes it plain that african communist then had a very explicit ideas about the eventually leading freed and sovereign african nation into south. Our struggle was around many outstanding issues in our party program in the whole south one full economic political and social equality to the negro people and the right of self-determination of the negro people in the black belt when we got together we discussed. And we read the liberator the party put out this newspaper the liberator it was always carrying something about the liberation of black people. Something about africa something about the south scarborough etcetera etcetera. We'd compare we talk about the right of self-determination we discussed the whole question of if we establish the government what role we comrades would play about the relationship of the white of the poor white farmers et cetera in this area. If you had a government in the south they give you the self-determination the black belt you got whites there. Would you do with the whites. We say the whites would be recognized on the basis of their percentage represented on all buddies committees. But the negroes at all times would be in the majority. It's revealing that at that time. When african communism had easily as much strength in numbers in the south as it did in the nineteen seventies had a nationalist program the goal of national independence very clearly made sense to the grassroots. And at that time and early nineteen thirties. Overwhelming majority of african communist south were proletarians as. We put back together some of the pieces of the new african story. We see even incomplete incomplete line. That struggle had indeed renewed itself in it entered the modern period. The african pro terry had stood up particularly in the south and has beheaded new industrial union unionism campaigns with without the alliances with white workers on the plantations. The masses were starting to organize spontaneous resistance to the settlers. colonial occupation. Was breaking out the most politically conscious of these becoming communist with african communism rapidly growing and taken on its vanguard role. Thousands of africans stepped forward in those years to commit themselves on revolution self-government through independence for the african nation and socialism. This was a program that had one respect amongst african people particularly in the south. The political horizons for africans open wide. In those years. It is especially important to understand that. Massive africans viewed themselves as part of a world struggle that their aims and concerns encompassed but went far beyond the immediate economic issues. Nothing proved this more. Clearly than the spontaneous mass movement support ethiopia in its war against italian imperialism in october. Nineteen thirty five. The italian empire invaded in the draft to expand its north african colonies which at that time included somali eritrea and libya italian imperialists especially glad at that new invasion since it gives them a chance to avenge the humiliating defeat at ottawa. In eighteen ninety six ignacio paige was then however feudalistic society the only actually independent nation lifting et remained independent for the only possible reason because it had repeatedly maintained its national integrity had militarily repulse european intrusions. The early portuguese slavers had been driven off. Even when the italian forty thousand soldiers armed with rifle and artillery invaded ethiopia in eighteen ninety six the ethiopian nation defeated them. These italian divisions was surrounded and wiped out adwa emperor menelik two hundred fifty thousand ethiopian soldiers. The humble italian empire was forced off the adults publicly. Recognize the theo and borders and even to pay the ethiopian government. Heavy cash reparations so in one thousand nine thirty five after some years of proprietary border incidents the mussalini regime eagerly san is tank divisions and airplane squadrons slicing into ethiopia africans within the. Us empire reacted instantly in a great uproar of anger and solidarity journalists. Otley pointed out that there had been no event in recent times that stirred the rank and file of negroes more than the italo endorphin war. It is important to graphs the full and exact significance of this political upheaval. All over the african continent and in the new world africans were being oppressed by the european colonial powers. Why vended this one. Case co for such special attention from africans in the us empire because it involved the principal of net national rights for africans. The defense of african nationhood even the even. The moderate political foresees rallied around this most basic issue to the nationally oppressed. Even someone such as well to white. The executive secretary of the nwa c. p. could angrily right edney brazenly has set fire under the paddock of why are against ingred which seems destined to become active suicide for the so-called white world at its nineteen thirty five national convention. The end of acp assailed the imperialistic selfishness of all nations in this shameless aggression upon the sovereignty of other nations. The defensive african nationhood was primary. Premarin everyone's mind duck elk williams president of the national baptist convention told a mass rally. We do not want to see the last black empire. In africa lose its independence and culture the fraternal council of churches representing the major african denominations issued an official resolution saying americans of african descent. A deeply stirred in their attitudes sympathies for ethiopia. A negro people who represent almost the only remaining manning example of independent government by the black race on the continent of africa. So the concern is broadly shared by the african nation. As a whole not just by some strada oh by some political sectors. The support movement took many forms. Clearly the leading group in the mass mobilization was the gaza movements united negro improvement association. Un this was. We should recall the same nationalist organization that prominent historians now assurance was abandoned. An end unimportant at that time. Captain ale king head of the u. n. i n. New york was the chairman of the united african support committee. J. raja's deleting intellectual of the garvey movement in the us was the main propaganda educator for the support movement the african united committee involved the only the a and other nationals but the cps say church nita's african cars groupings and salon within several months after the invasion of the friends of ethiopia had one hundred six local branches both north and south through a mask church meetings rallies marches of thousands and picket lines. Outside italian government offices. The national character. The movement was underlined by the fact that virtually to the last person africa's boycotted the well funded and your american-run international relief efforts. The american red cross admitted the africans refused to join his ethiopian. A campaign africans insisted on their own all african campaign that was highly political. The political counter attacked by. Us imperialism struck at this point somehow room. I kept spreading the seo paeans thought of themselves as caucasian and that they allegedly viewed africans most especially in the us empire with contempt there is a demoralizing confusion from this rumor to expose this lie. Representatives of ethiopia came to the us at a packed hall. Meeting of three thousand. At reverend reverend. Adam clayton powell genius baptist. Church ethiopian envoy tesfaye invoked the solidarity of oppressed african peoples. It said that we despised negroes in the first place. You're not negroes. Who told you that you were negroes. You are the sons and daughters of africa you motherland which calls you now to aid her law surviving free black people. The varta movement arose spontaneously throughout the nation thousands upon thousands of africans volunteer to go find ethiopia. The black legion established a military training camp enrolling new york and is leaders urged africans to prepare to renounce us citizenship while the volunteer movement was blocked by us. Imperialism is popular nature shows. How powerful where the potential forces being expressed through the ethiopian support. Issue the two africans from the us empire who did find both fighter pilots were heroes beckham whose adventures widely followed by the african press. The conflict was for out in metre on the streets of jersey city brooklyn and harlem between and pro fascist talion immigrants the night of august eleventh nineteen thirty five over thousand africans in italians foot with baseball bats and rocks on the streets of jersey city on october fourth. Nineteen thirty five the day after the main invasion began thousands of africans attacked italian shots in harlem and brooklyn on the streets masses of ordinary africans viewed. This fight and the fight in ethiopia is very close. it's indicative that in nineteen thirty six late night street. Quinta rally of the african patriotic league called to protest italian mass executions of ethiopian patriots. Rapidly turned into an attack on the police smashing italian. Still windows the crowd of four hundred africans marched down lenox avenue in harlem looking for a particular policeman who made a point of arresting nationalist in the mass fighting with police that followed the nail. Police started shooting after the determined crowd charged them successfully free. One of their number who had been arrested ethiopia was close to home. The great pouring of nationally sentiment that accompanied the ethiopian war was we must emphasize widespread throughout the us empire. One new orleans resident remote to the currier that ethiopian crisis proved that the time is here for the negro begin looking for the highest things in life a flag of its own a government of his own complete liberty. This was developing consciousness that so threatened. Us imperialism section three to disrupt the nation population recruitment. It was only against the rise of the african nation that we could see in brilliant detail. How the us empire wolf together the net of counter-insurgency. We know that a period that began to run world war one which continued through the nineteen thirties period in which african nationalism militantly took hold of the masses ended in the nineteen forties with the triumph of pro imperial integrationism as dominant political philosophy in the african communities. Us kind surgency was a hidden factor in this paradoxical outcome in the in the philippine war of eighteen ninety eight to nineteen. Oh one the. Us empire openly spoke of its counterinsurgency strategy. The same was true. In vietnam in the nineteen sixties but in the african colony of the nineteen thirties. Us counterinsurgency was concealed. It was nonetheless real nonetheless genocidal for having been done without public announcements it is when we view what happened in this light as components of a strategy of counterinsurgency that the political events suddenly come into full focus usually counterinsurgency involves three principle components number one violent suppression of information of the revolutionary qadri and organization's number-two paralyzing. The mass struggle itself through genocidal population. Recruitment number three substituting pro imperialist bourgeois leadership and institutions for patriotic leadership and institutions within the colonial society the terroristic suppression of african militants in the south has been discussed and in any case should be well understood. What is bent been less discussed are the other two parts population. Recruitment in mousa- dungs famous analogy the is in the people's war our fish while the masses are the see that both sustains and conceals them population recruitment in the as terminology strategy seeks to dry up that see by literally up reading the masses in disrupting the whole social fabric of the oppressed nation in vietnam. The strategy resulted in the widespread chemical poisoning of crops and forest land the population of key areas and the involuntary movement of one third of the total south vietnamese population off their lands to protected hamlets in refugee centres. I the reservations for vietnamese. These blows only show. How great nefer. What magnitude of resources is expanded on imperialist counterinsurgency in response to growing political unrest. The us empire moved inexorably to drive africans off the land out of industry and forced them into exile. The new deal of president franklin roosevelt the major banks and corporations and the main your american political and social organizations which are unions political parties et cetera. Or to get it to destroy the economic base of the african nation to separate africans from their lands and to this stabilize and gradually depopulate the african communities in an adjacent to the national territory. One history of us welfare programs notes. Many new deal programs running roughshod over the most destitute. Federal agricultural policy for example was designed to raise farm prices by taking land out of cultivation and action that also took many tenant farmers and sharecroppers out of the economy the national recovery administration seeking to placate organized employers and labor community ratio differential in wages to be maintained the tennessee valley authority deferred to local prejudice by not hiring blacks. All this was done not only but rather out of concern for building a broad base for the new programs. It was left to fear the federal emergency. Relief act sequoia. The casualties of the new deals pragmatic policies since black scott little from or actually harmed by most programs. Thirty percent of the black population ended up on the directly falls by january nineteen thirty five just as the thirty percent of the south vietnamese. People were forcibly made dependent upon direct. Us handouts in the nineteen sixties. In order jesse eat so thirty percent of the african people in the us were similarly reduced by nineteen thirty five but not for long. That was the first stage in the second. Relief was turned over to the local governments who proceeded to force africans off thoroughly for also drive them out of the region that history of us welfare continues under pressure from southern congressmen. Any wording that might have been interpreted as constraining. The states from racial discrimination and welfare was deleted from the social security act of nineteen thirty five. The southern states then proceeded to use the free hand that they'd been given to keep blacks off the rolls. It is important to see that africans were not just victims of discrimination and blend economic circumstances. Las hired i fired etcetera. Africans were the targets of imperialist new deal policy. We must remember that the arcade parasitic american. Planta capitalists were on the verge of final bankruptcy and literal disillusion in the early years of the depression. Further despite the nineteen twenty nine depression. There wasn't relatively little agricultural imply unemployment among africans in the rich mississippi river cotton land of the delta the kush until the winter of nineteen thirty three thousand nine hundred thirty four then. These two facts were suddenly reversed. The new deals nineteen thirty. Four agricultural adjustment act rescued their room. Plant to capitalist giving them cash subsidies so that they could hold onto the land and continue serving as imperialism's overseers african south but those us imperialist subsidies literally gave the planters cash for each share cropper and ten inform the force of the plantation. The primary effect then was to forcibly stabilized and eventually depopulate the real african communities one nineteen thirty five evaluation of the aaa program by the lawyer for the southern tenant. Farmers union pointed out before its passage. Most of the plantations of south were heavily mortgaged. It was freely prophesied that the plantation system was breaking down under its own weight and that the great plantations would soon be broken up into small farms owned by the people who cultivate them but by federal aid the plantation system of the south is more strongly entrenched than it had been for years however this is not the most significant effect of the federal aid. Bite conagra acreage is reduced from about forty percent. Something like forty percent of the tenants were displaced. This is plainly. This placement was also taking place in the factories. And even the coalfield where we noted in the previous section african workers had played a leading role in militant unionization as the coal mines of the south. Gradually became unionized. Nineteen thirties african miners. And their families were driven out by the tens of thousands the lodge co companies and the united mine workers union umw cio while they had class differences had oppressed nation unity. The imperialist had decided to drive rebellious african labor out of the southern coalfields and the pro imperialist unions eagerly cooperated between one thousand nine hundred forty and nineteen forty. The percentage of african miners in the five seven appalachian states alabama virginia tennessee west. Virginia and kentucky was liberty deliberately cut from twenty three percent to sixteen percent and keep being keep on being cut year after year regardless of economic boom or bust the drive-by capital two straight down african labor to force the colonial messes out of the main economy intensified throughout the nineteen thirties between nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty six. Some fifty percent of all african skill workers will pushed out of their jobs. Careful observers at that time made the point that this was not caused by the depression alone but clearly reflected a strategy used by imperialism against the african nation as a whole w e b boyce said in the main address of the one thousand nine hundred eighty three fisk university commencement ceremony we do not know that american negroes will survive there as soon as the signs about us antecedent to an unconnected with the great depression. The organized might industry. North and south is relegating negro to the edge of survival and using him as a liberal reservoir on starvation wage in the fields tens of thousands of african farm families during the nineteen thirties were driven. Not only off the land but out of the south altogether as we have seen. This was clearly not the result of blind economic circumstances. But was the genocidal result of imperialist policy as enacted by the most liberal settling administration and us history the social disruption and depopulation renault no significant for africans then for dispersed colonial peoples such as the palestinians the militant shuttle the land and the turn of african workers towards revolution was not only blunted by repression increasingly. The african masses were involuntary dispersed scattered into the refugee camps of the northern ghettos removed from established positions in industries and trades. That were an irreplaceable of the modern nation. It was not just a matter of dollars important as income to the oppressed. What was happening ravaged national culture. The sea of african society was stricken. It is material base interesting enough. The nineteen thirty four triple a. And the entire program was administered by fdr secretary of agriculture henry wallis. This man was latest. Become the darling of the cpa usa and nineteen forty eight presidential candidate of the p. Usa led progressive party section four neo-colonialism yeah desi end of section three and the end of what were reading for today so Yeah general thoughts okay. So in that case or you're good the problem the problem yeah really why the end of section two or introduce yourself. Hi camario the end of section to mike ally. I thought it was amazing to see how organized like Aware at the time and like the international solidarity thought was amazing to the point relate. African people are fighting italians in the streets in new york about that was really amazing to see like and they were and i liked the way that they were kind of laying the white people within the different organizations and my strategizing for whatever it was best for them for black people and not just trying to be conciliatory or bill like coalition. It was more about. Who can we like find union with now. But we don't have to stay with us. So i just really liked seeing how organized they were in high school. What you described makes me think of those shirts that i hate like we are not our ancestors and stuff and it reminded me of how wrong those those shirts are like. I really hate those shirts but this was a good reminder of how dangerous to get your history of black people on ancestors from from white people because they will not tell you stuff like this and back to the general questions if no one has anything to add to a kamari said i'll say Which people groups did the chapter slash section feature. What were the goals and what tactics that they use. It's very much an extension of the first reading. So i'm sure it's not going to be that much different than the first answers but i'll ask it anyway. it's safe to say it's pretty much the same the same group of people the africans in the sharecroppers From the first action right How did her actions fit into historical trends. Yeah oh i was gonna say would the seo few microscopic us talking but it's all your yeah It you saw the quotation of the black people. Just a the using the numbers help feed was ultimately. The settlers ambitions Even though they tried to push back against that You could tell that their presence was kind of like this book by it. In the first half of the chapter they started up a union then usually by the time it was over. The settlers came in putting people this if you they took a lot of the africans use them for you know political capital. And then you know just try to walk away from it. All your heart's fair. i think. Also what you just described ties into the next question about how. The actions fit into historical trends. Because i feel like that's a so. Keep seeing to this day of White groups using back black bodies to swell the ranks but tonight actually meet the needs of the black people that also leads me to us that. Ask a question that always us myself. Why do we still get involved in. Why don't we just have our own thing. Like you know what i would say. I would say you kind of have to do both. But i feel like we get involved with others to the exclusion of forming our own groups. Like i think in theory could work if we organiz amongst ourselves and then from that strong collective base on the goshi with other groups. But we don't really do that. We i mean like you saw. It would. Democrats in joe biden. What was happening with anyone who dared to tell people to focus on the back agenda furs. Then focus on party politics or if you're a democrat or republican or socialists. Or whatever and you know most people. Their primary loyalty was to their Ally group than to the idea of black sovereignty. So that's the problem. I think it's not that It's it's bad to work with others for that. We sacrifice ourselves almost to the altar of other other people's politics and go ahead. You go see something camera. I was gonna say like. I agree with that. But i was. I thought i was wondering maybe. It's just like a tactic of survival. In that group that jugs black people than there really doesn't have to be like then they can just all be exterminated in some way shape or form and i may be like black people think they can hide under white works in that like they may not basis type of repression. I think there's some truth to that. I i also think in. I'm open to push back on this. I also think that we kind of internalize the idea of our own lack of worth. Because i feel like even if it's a compensation of just among black people without any white people around we still can't get that pushback of you know like for example when the when Those queens were cocktails women on fox soul. we're talking with ice cube and all they did was responding with Immigrants or other groups problems where he was trying to talk about black americans and in that space. They weren't really to me speaking to white audience but they still kept kinda defaulting to. It's our job to mule for everyone and if we do it then they'll appreciate us back and we'll be appreciated like it was very foreign to them even the idea of Doing black forest politics. So i'm i agree with what you're saying i'm not seeing. What you're seeing is is wrong. I think you're absolutely right that it's a protection mechanism but i do think to a degree. We've actually internalized that if is just about us. It's not that important you know but if it's about everybody then that makes it was worth as i think that that that that that floor in their thinking it's kind of talking about in the the other day when they were talking about. Why do i have so much confidence in while in in people kind of thing and i think those kinds of people they were put their and for those reasons because they think that way and truthfully when it comes to working together for the benefit of everybody i'm all for it. You know what i will never want to do is sacrifice my own interests. I did not play the game. And you do that and you do it without me. You know and. I think that people historically the reason why they didn't walk away from you know. Walk away with because these people owned all the capitol. They provide all the job in a way. There's a gun to you whether you realize it or not that you have to engage but how much you engage in that point you have to make that fascinating deal is a choice and the minute that you know. These people read into this question of you know over. Halfway up the hill over at the top of the hill. Now we gotta make some concessions. You know i'd be like make the concession. But i'm up paying for it because i paid for my price was just working with you. 'cause that was against my probably interests so i'm giving up any of the gains people. Don't have enough spying to really Do that felt fifty to do so. And i think that does come from psychological lack of self worth because if they had that then they would fight for at least a little something you know but just rolled over like that. I feel like this is a plague. Parbat sleeve mindset. That hasn't been shed. Yeah that's really all that. Say about that kind of making like making progress through capitulation and stuff in winfield was talking about really made me think how the the conversations that people were having prior to the election With boo okay. Well you know we know that there but the main response you broke up for a second. I'm was for everyone. Just oh sorry about that. can you hear me. i can you young now. Yes so like one thing that that we kind of saw like a you know prior to the election was the whole idea of I in this is just a generalization but when ever somebody brought up redressing issue that impacted black people in the country. There was always well. We need to put that to the side because we need to save the country. I you know Something else that. I noticed that when in line with that is it was what you said. We have to put that aside. I to save the country i or it would start getting traction. I earning the election cycle. There was a moment when reparations was being discussed really heavily and when that happened it started getting taking pretty seriously when they had the meet the hearing on the senate floor to address it and as it started being seriously entertained there are a lot of think pieces We have to do gay reparations. Oh we have to do which was a real thing piece off forgot where was There was the native american Reparations have to be done Latino american reparations has to be done they those are think pieces in the course of a month and my problem with. They had a problem with these things. People thought i was being anti latino or anti gay or anti this but well i was trying to say is. It's not that you guys want to fight for this stuff. But why do you keep staying quiet until it looks like black. People are making some headway in suddenly. Just wanna busting your own claims when you had plenty of time to Ninety have plenty of time to bring the stuff up to if it was really a pressing concern but a lot of y'all were the same ones who were bad mouthing. The black reparations claim win the debates came about and suddenly As a starting to get taken seriously Basically i feel those are the two things either way because there's more important things that affect everyone now or year we can talk about it now but Also let's Package and all these other grievances so that you know the end of it the hierarchy is still is going to be maintained because yeah and i think that's the problem because if you look at the injustices that's been done just against this. You know anywhere between ten to fourteen percent of their population for all this length of time. The unjust this is the route injustice. If this really gotten rid of the culture would be ref- reformed in such a great level that those other issues would probably go away too because the way they're carrying on isn't the way it was historically in the culture. I know of that. You know my descendants came from so it's just the it doesn't really make sense to say. Let me let me just put this massive enjoy ongoing injustice in atrocity probably the biggest one in human history aside sicker these little side issues and nibble around the edges. And i think the only reason why these people do that the ones that do do it is because of the compensate in they could farewell in this system and they really don't need the benefits of that because they second-class class citizenship is somewhat ameliorated by the gifts that they get you know the weather people talk about stuff like biscuits and all that so. I feel like the people that are represented in the struggle. The wrong people you know and the ones that have voiced the ones who are the wrong people to have voice. Because they're not they're invested in things where they are so they can afford to you know. See no change at all. You know so. I think the reason why they selected is if you look at the people that they choose the always these broken people is something wrong with them and if you don't see it up front is something back. They have over because had they been strong. You know people focused you know represented is of the group they would not make those kind of compromises and they wouldn't put those kind of things on the back burner so it's like almost everybody you see that has some sort of you know is is a damage product off. I don't understand why people get behind. It think that this sick thing about it is it's like it's always watered down and sort of sold out in under the guise of being fair. It's not fair if you don't include everybody i'm one recent example Corey bush. i was layton her from what i've seen so far and i'm not going to write her off yet. I'm still trying to take her in. I'm trying not to buy into anybody totally upfront. Because let's nothing but disappointment so far. So i was trying to be cautiously optimistic but She recently had a four or tweet. You know saying that you know. The green new deal is Racial justice problem got my nerves. Not because like even if she just put it like hey The green new deal is something black. People should care about because they face a lot of environmental racism. Like that would have been fine or you know. She says everyone should care about the green new deal because it Affects everyone men. Women black white native asian. You know that wouldn't bother me. But when she specifically put it that way that it's a racial justice problem never really got him. Because i felt like they don't do that they wouldn't say like This is most pressing feminist issue Like i'm sure you know. This is the Gay rights issue of our time. I feel like you wouldn't really see a woman. A white feminists say that you know or a gay activist save at so it was kind of annoying to me that we as black people have this Reflex to take on these causes as racial causes and say hey that whatever amount of goodwill. We are allowed to use to advocate for our group. We're going to spend that Political social capital with the Lift all boats policy that like that was Kind of annoying the chance to use that phrasing. I had no problem with her fighting for thing. But i just always hate how we volunteer to use our whatever chips we have to spend in political capital. Our first priorities Something like that. And the other thing. I noticed about the chapters reading the section about illegal into ethiopia and how much that meant to the black american people back then even though they were still at that point generations removed from africa And i i mean you say this one thing when we first got here. I think off the day after week one. Everybody could agree that they probably all wants to go back. You know but You know that said the people that were here one hundred years ago when they heard about the loss sovereign nation being attacked. That meant something to them. You know but it seems like these days is really different. You see these people that are like really focused on things that reparations or you know cones identified more with america when countries founded. They went people were things and it just seems like they somewhere along the plus hundred years. I don't know what it is. But some kind of aspect of their identities been been like either crushed or or really really downplayed that they really focused more on the heaven and identity hair than their global identity. The system that they're in is a global system. It seems like you're throwing away a lot of cash from table to just think about you know issues hair and not seeing how the global effects are of these kind of western european empire is so yeah. I just can't rock with it. I think it's good of your hero. distinct So i think in order to attain any kind of You know like good grades in school or you know to excel cut cut. Oh i can still hear him personally this anyone else. You cut for anyone else chick. One i can. Yes i can hear you find your. But but i can hear you very clearly. Yeah yeah you're a little bit low. But i can hear you about i disabled. Thanks we hold on. I think for some reason. Winfield can't hear you so he ends up talking over you But we can all the rest when you're not able to hear for some reason. I'm not getting audio from anybody right for you right now or you ain't getting it from me that's weird. Oh so winfield's wanna getting it from me. Well i'll tell you what I mean okay. He he left and came back with c- He wrote you could start talking again. See that okay. Resell vowed to wait a second. I know what it is ignored. It is yeah. He was away a few days ago remember. We had to mute him. Oh my bet. Yeah that's right okay. Other say on yet. I just wanna say like in order to to get anywhere. I think politically or just. Get any kind of respect. You have to kind of at some level. An internal internalize the bob wa blacks and bottom. Why it's on top. And i think you know I don't know about getting beaten down. I think a lot of us are just brainwashed that way. And we can't envision a world where we aren't on the bottom so that you know and when you paper or you you try to you know push back against that get characterized you know as you know as extremist or. You know pie in the sky and we see that in media one one film that comes to mind. I don't know why but It was chemists film With when the Something about amyot. i don't know what was like. This blessing character was gay or something. I remember seeing that in. Just like kind of clowning on there. That idea and i think you know has just been this propaganda to to Keep us with that mentality. A quick thing to say but the reparations. I wasn't sure what you meant. Winfield you were saying reparations. a Sign of being Broken or over identified with america. Just wants to be point is yet they. Everybody knows a debt to be paid but outside here other people that do it too but they don't really place is much of a focus on it is more about you know getting around it another way you know and no one. I just feel like it's a everybody that gets it. Historically has a serious serious serious enough power base even in the european example just read about they will some tail and then they got it. You know you can't put the cart before the horse. I said that was before. I say it again. I think the focus should be on more of a real strong ethnic or national african identity and leveraging that to create the power necessary to make those kind of demands. But i just feel like the people on in a position to to to ask for it now yet it keeps coming up and it just becomes and when you do something like that the only use for it when it's going to be seriously entertained is to have it become a political football or distraction to keep you away from focusing on your material issues that would still be bringing you on the road to getting it. You know so. I just feel like the games. Just being against probably co-opted so that's why it's being played around and when you look at the decrease in wealth numbers and the crushing like i said the crushing or the identity it just feels like whereas one hundred years ago relatively speaking people would just coming out of you know they're the worst situations reconstruction to you know one war Probably to that point second one starting their mindset was still had more of a a united feeling about it. They felt for their people overseas. They felt something for the law. Stand of the You know sovereign nation abroad where the descendants came from. But these days you know what was happening in our lifetime. You know what these people. Dan congo rwanda and up in one thing. They're probably happens is based on. How a lot of Eighty was talk and rightly or wrongly. I think the perception is that it hasn't been reciprocated. Like i think a lot of them feel like it's been a disproportionate amount of Black american people really buying into pan-africanism and his global unity whereas the rest of the bre thinks themselves as say jamaican first or nigerian. I or whatever. I and a global african Second so that's the response that i get told from a lot of People who rock radio west is that they feel that they have to be able to self define in have Their their own identity worked out before they go to the table. back to the table of pan-africanism because They go to according to them and their history with the idea of. Hey we buy into the pan african thing. We're african before were american. But everyone else is their own ethnicity before their Pan african the other thing that Some of them have told me. Is that every pan-africanism on the continent day claim is dead that everyone who was for it and with it has been eliminated by America would this lumumba or allow the other people they've been replaced by american friendly puppets so and again. I'm not saying this is true or false. I'm just saying the rationales i've been given. I'm not really geopolitically savvy enough to agree with or contest their claims but just what. I've heard them say that they think that that's kind of been crushed on the continent and in the diaspora. I don't know if anyone else has any thoughts about that. I without even I'm not like a bowl. Murked by merck by obama was that i was saying like one one of the last pan-africanist that had any power In africa right on moammar gadhafi yup was killed by obama. Awesome but i would say though. They wouldn't kill them if they thought he was doing something right. You know yeah and without even getting into the pan african thing. I think there's something about Winfield's point in. I don't i don't i'm not super familiar with all the eighty staff but I think i think ultimately whether or not it's Part of to win. I don't think necessarily is is a moot point whether you believe in pan-africanism or not it's if ideas that you need to get your own group Something asking for reparations. I guess could be a means to get people excited. Join your cause but You still need to get power for your group and so It seems it seems that. I'm getting what i've gotten out of sort of what you've been talking about when this that you need to have that power base before you can have to ask to power otherwise you're likely to just get laughed at Not taken seriously or you'll get sort of an insulting offer. Like what if reparations came down to be five hundred dollars for each Black person in america and then from then on basically. You just told that we already did that. Like that wouldn't be beneficial. So i think i think the underlying point of having to build a power base. That has a lot of solidarity whether it's a worldwide or or whether it's With a single country our nation. I think. I think it's still a pretty well. I think the problem is personally. I don't think a global coalition is going to really help unless you have your own base because this is why. I think the problem is if you have a global coalition and your own interest group like does not even a name really for people who descend from black american slavery like does not even really a name like african american is not agreed on some people think it refers so many people descend from american slavery. Some people Think african american is anybody of african descent. Who is Who's living in. America or born america or whatever so some people. I'm an african american to some people. I'm not an african american. Because i'm of haitian descent and it's like if you can't even have an agreed upon name for example eighty westbound agreed upon name because people who hate yvette carnell and antonio more even if they're the center for american slaves they don't wanna call themselves eighty away so it's like okay if you're going to build some kind of coalition with Other black people around the world. You don't even really have a name for your group. Even then everyone even officially recognizes like that something that simple to me is one of them was basic things you even need like. I think american black culture is kind of very Ill defined in terms of names for it and and national agenda because it's so kind of mixed in with other other black people that makes that sense so i mean to a degree. Even i don't agree with all their conclusions. I do think some people involved in the eighty west movement Do go too far into zena phobia and also i think a mistake. That might have been made as they should not have given the movement the same name as what they wanted to call the city or the culture. Because they've made it so that if you don't like the movement then you're not going to want to call yourself That name but i do think even for that solidarity. You're going. I think they're going to get more punked in their movements by trying to form something with A global movement when everyone else is pretty self defined about who they are as a culture and what's it called himself and whatever and you don't have that sort it out you just going to be absorbed with everyone else because most of the things that i see Second generation immigrants talk about when it comes to this stuff. Ellison on twitter. Discussions is is how jamaicans and people haitian essentially beginning. American rep sue beginning. Us reparations to and doing things pieces about that and how people that don't even Descend from American slavery and i think without a robust Sense of black nationhood for the people who are descended from american slaves. I think the reparations. We'll just end up getting Diluted and spread around with a lot of other types of black people in a way that those same black people are not going to do in reverse like no one in. America is going to get a claim to haiti's reparations. From france or jamaica's reparations from england but i think a lot of people expect to get an equal share of america's operate american blacks reparations. Yeah i think you. The key point that you came across was nationhood nothing. That's kind of what supplies communicating about in the book. He's really talking about a national project. Is the only solution to this kind of thing. Because you can only express your identity fully and completely as a nation you know you can only have systems that you could only revise a system completely if you have your own nation. You can't reform this so you need something else. You know this like playing around with this forever. Just not an option. You could stay. You could say for eternity trying to put the round peg into the square hole. It's just not going to go in. So i just really think that Waste going to end up is going to be like the your iphone blow up in your leg and gave me third degree burns but they compensate you with a twenty five dollar. Earbuds is just gonna be something like that at the rate is going because there's no established powerbase to to to create that and i think before you get to that point you definitely need a national struggle and i feel like that is something that the people here have legitimately earned. But i just don't know why they don't pursue. Yeah i totally on. On that point i i think i completely agree with what you're saying. I i just wonder if it's the discrimination against black people in the us doesn't didn't start an end slavery and so even if you're the second generation immigrant but black here you still face discrimination. So i don't know if that's why i questioned whether reparations should be one of these i think question whether reparations to be the end goal versus like one demand and the nation idea of nationhood should probably be a little more broad to to get people who are who suffer today under the same kind of oppression to decca decca join together. Because i don't while the historical differences is meaningful really important I think i think trying to parse everybody out Is is maybe a fraud task. I mean it definitely won't be easy. That's for sure. But i mean i think at the end of the day. People should try. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. But i mean i feel like there is a lot of talk about how fraught and hard it is but it's also makes it tough to me is. It should have been happening long time ago. And part of the whole reason why it's so fraught and difficult and whatever is because right people an empire to me in america just tried to run out. The clock is kind of like people. Bring up oh look at all the generations that pass and whatever but whose fault is that. I mean forty acres in. The mule was pretty much on the table from the beginning. You guys didn't pay you. Guys kept Stalling installing and just oppressing more and more and disenfranchising more and more and then the situation that you created which is Two generations from slavery have have happened and it has been done like. I feel like it's kind of somebody's stonewalling and then using that situation. That was their fault to begin with as an excuse. Well hey now too. Much time has passed. How can we do it. So i mean i know. That's that's my point. People playing those games. They'll drive you. They'll they'll string you along for eternity and nothing will change but with a national projects. Unlike asking someone to give you give you a check or give you some compensation. People globally could stand behind that because they understand this isn't embattled marginalized group almost perpetually so i stand behind them being free of that you know and But those other things just too nebulous and to consume convoluted to get behind. And i think those are the kind of solutions that to be honest. Somebody that doesn't want to see you succeed would push on you to pursue you know because they don't want to see you succeed and the people who get behind it the only thing that they could do in terms of benefiting from it is perpetuating itself. Could they could eat off it. You know so Yeah i really feel like the national project is the only solution. And it's one that could legitimately be said has been earned you know so a cesary the say on that Hold on while. Take a look at the questions again. See where we left off So it's a chi- leaving anything out. If so what and speculate why Again these are hard questions to ask since the chapters that actually over yet were. Not you know so Take that with a grain of salt also offer any solutions and once against it's chapters not over He probably safe to say he doesn't but in case anyone does think something has been left out already or some solutions have been offer it. I'm asking the questions anyway. Okay so i'm going to take that to mean that people don't think those questions apply to this portion How do we relate this history to the present. How do public schools deal with this history. Do they exclude slash editorialize. It in what ways have these events shaped everyday life. That last part. I'll just say that. They make explicit the great migration part. So i would say as far as the events shaping everyday life i will say that The whole racial makeup of the us a distribution of black people and how black people are in urban areas in the north the west coast and all these different places directly stems from a lot of the stuff mentioned in this chapter. That's one thing that jumped out at me and the public schools dealing with this history and excluding editorializing I do think to some degree. The public schools mentioned racial terrorism as being a driving force in the great migration. But it's kind of rendered little bit generic like just Clansmen running around and hoods lynching and segregation and then people just got sick of the lynching the crosses and the segregation and then moved on. Whereas i feel like this chapter can really get into mechanics and the nuts and bolts of and how. It's not just a handful of people in hoods or whatever but ongoing economic exploitation that everyone benefited from and everyone worked together to maintain and and that perks from in various ways. From no man. Woman child you didn't have to be a a sharer for a card-carrying klan wizard to be a part of the terrorism and the benefits to that point. I thought it a really interesting part about this chapter was how a ties it to you. The population recruitment in vietnam. And he doesn't. I don't think he meant says it explicitly but how do you know how closely ties together. I also thought it was ties directly to a part that he brings up at the beginning where the cities in the eighteen twenty s in in the early eighteen. Hundreds were heavily black and they had to create the plantation systems to kind of regroup. These populations outside of these powerbases And it's kind of this this recurring theme of you. Know we have to move people and destroy their their power bases and any control they have over anything and kind of separate them and slowly. Destroy them on. I thought it was interesting. That he know he follows up talking about the great migration with the population. Cia probably population. Recruitment in vietnam and yet the thoughts. I thought the part of a Henry wallis was really interesting. Could i remember learning about him and people like people who were progressive talking about. If only because i guess at one point the democratic party like shut him out of the convention and i remember people talking about if only like he had become president like who ways things would have been different. And i think it's it's always interesting to see how no matter how progressive you can find a white person though. Always there's always some history of fucking over Bull in some way interesting. Yeah i agree if it was really funny at. There's a documentary series on netflix. That i watch part of that was pretty good about explaining the motivations behind everybody all the parties in the second world war But it's it's a over stones What is called. He is a huge huge fan of henry wallace and paints him out to be angel. Who could do no wrong. But at the same time doesn't talk about really anything going on in the us during this period just sort of like what the the higher people in the us government. It's always I agree it's always really interesting to to see someone who so. Why is ben. just be like exposed d. Do you guys remember the movie. Gods and generals. Did you see that highlight there. It's about the civil war. And at totally paints like you know the The confederates and just such a a good light. And what was last brought up is there's always fragmented history that's always pushed out without without actually taking into consideration. The context of what was going on. This was not as comprehensive type of things. It's just kind of you know creating cults of personality around people but if you really dig into everything like sequoias doing you'll you'll definitely have a different view of things that two hundred of wallace senate's a interesting situation. Another thing that that was happening. I guess i that was interesting. More along what. We talked about earlier with with how joining movements versus form your own. I thought it was really interesting. That in the previous chapter before the cpa usa was talked a lot about as art. Bit sadler laughed but here it this ep. Usa and some parts of the south was like almost exclusively black. And i thought it was really interesting point. I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about how that related to the earlier discussion about whether you should join other movements or or coming with your own. I i don't really. I don't really. I don't fully understand how that dynamic really worked out here. seems like they're almost two totally separate entities. Anyone wanna pick up on that. I think that's a good question. But i don't really know the answer to it. I'd only be. I'd only be guessing your same here. That's why i'm not answering. Don't feel qualified to but is a good question though. I just don't feel qualified to even speculate on. It might be something to think about between this week and next week maybe returned to the topic. There has anyone read the book hammer and who about about. I've never read it. Have you know. But i think it's written about this time. Rate was a communist in alabama during dirty. Yeah i noticed by robin digi kelly. And he's written some great Papers articles about black resistance black communism. He has a really good paper called black like mile where he talks about The long relationship between global communism and The black american freedom struggle and also how it was a two way street that there are a lot of black freedom fighters inspired by the global communist but similarly there are a lot of black and there are a lot of global communists who took A lot of tips and instruction and inspiration from black freedom fighters and were directly inspired by them. Uneven met with them nick when they traveled to america so i mean based on those articles. I have a lot of faith that hammering hose. Probably a good book. Like that's just me saying. I haven't read the book but i've read robin kelly talk about that subject and he's very thorough so i'm sure that's good that book so let's see what else if anybody has any thoughts to share that don't directly relate to the questions that we asked Oh wait Yakub watts the question. From before repeated the one that we were Stumped on can type in the chat ochre. Because i want to paraphrase phrase it in Butcher i have a question Earlier related to kind of the discussion about like black miss leadership. A lot of this book deals with how kind of the right wing politics of white people in america is directly related to their them being like kind of being off by empire and being included in that project I do other people think that that. That's part of the reason that i mean people get. I mean people get good jobs. Go on tv. I mean you get paid well on. I think that part of sakai's point is is that is to get a good job as you have to kind of buy into to these politics and i feel like for a lot of people. It's like to even survive to come to. This country has an immigrant right. You kind of have to buy into that a i. I wonder how actually don't think that. I agree with you on gusting. I would say is i think people use by off and buy in on interchangeably in. I think it's probably helpful to kind of differentiate between the two. Because i do think buying off kind of means you thought one way at first and if somebody bribed you whereas buying in from the start you never thought any other ways. So there's like a little more agency. And i mean it sounds like a distinction without a difference but what i would say is i feel like back. People or people of color are more likely to Be bought off like some level. They kind of realized that their values should be to defend black people and put you know black people's politics rights i but they see the benefits that come from individualism and from assimilating and then They allow those get kind of bought off bottles perks. But i think a lot of us are kind of raised to at least understand. We're supposed to be a certain way. But i think and this is where i do disagree with a lot of right. Left about the white working class or the white lower middle-class is The white left is kind of try to portray the poor whites and the white blue collar. Some kind of Innate or default class solidarity. That's cross racial and that they were kind of bought off whereas a sky kind of pointed out from the very for chapter they came here fully bought into the idea that we're going to have social mobility. We're going to be the people with our feet on other people's necks even if we have to start off a little bit under someone's Boot that it was always part of the plan for them. You know Yeah so so for like you know the first settlers right. That's i think that's true. I think also kind of these like people who were like you know what he calls them really the the communists. Second revolutionary races like the the eastern europeans and stuff who weren't who weren't included in kind of whiteness. At first i feel like what's a chi- is like saying like how they became white as they like. They threw away their connection to the kind of their national homelands and and started promoting the interests of of america instead. And i wonder in this question. Because i think about like lake right wing asians. Who like what. I think about like people who like kind of like support their home country. They're generally left wing and people who support america are generally right wing and i wonder how like that effects like as well like i wonder what what you guys think about that basically says i answered the last time you know dirt out to someone else to kind of share their thoughts In the chat yet to just posted something that i think. I think it goes along with this really well. And he said that there is a there was a a black female writer said that to become fully american emigrant must take on anti black sentiment and i think that aligns with kind of what you're talking about is if you're going to to become americanized you need to unita basically except that that sort of like mindset that america is is thing that matters and mike American like capitalism. Imperialism goes against sort of nationalist respect for your own country so i think i think there's something there's something really tied together statement enough. I'm answering the question. But it's not just white immigrants but i think a lot of immigrants color including other black immigrants were degree by into this. You know at the very least I have to buy into anti-black americanise as a black immigrant to Become fully american. So i think that's an underrated phenomenon. It's one of the reasons why i think that lack americans do have to to two degree to Create like a universally recognized name for themselves that just covers of american descent. And you know kind of formulate some kind of From definitions of what their agendas and culture is outside of just general blackness. Because i think that a lot of times And i get in trouble for saying this a lot. But i think a lot of times. People underestimate how and not all not you know. I'm not trying to fuel like designer phobia thing. But i do think one of the pros. I think i have with this discussion. Is that young people who try to act like all black. Immigrants are just anti-black america in our Sellouts or whatever or you have people who act like it's doesn't exist and it's pure gas lighting and as a result no nuance gets brought to the conversation. A whole middle ground and spectrum in gradations get lost. And that's my big problem with the whole discussion is It's always one extreme or the other so it was like one person trying to say like Anybody with a foreign flag in their profile is going to be a butter biscuit sellout and another person of saying oh. None of that ever happens is just lies and back. Americans buy into american imperialism. And they're the white people black people and it's just it's just a messy discussion. I think at the end of the day. I don't know if that ties into the question. If i took it even further away but i think i think all this stuff ties into it for sure. I'm curious to see Everyone's opinion here. But do you think of the turned. The car uses a new african in place of black or african american better than african american. But it might just sound better hundred censure things better name but may have been applicable. You know at the time but I don't know man when with with things like that are always think it's it's up to the agency and up to the individual to define themselves So forth System thoughts you hughes comments. He said That new african not worth using today to close to quote unquote new black. An echo at some awesome saying chat. That new black is. This sounds pretty bad too. Yeah yeah you'll if the with Talking about what the uses I think at the time it made sense because You know little black americans weren't as integrated into our society as they are now but i think now it's a bit difficult to to us even an umbrella term because You know there is no law nation right. It's everything is really become blurred pun intended You know like blurred to to the point where people don't even know what they are Despite not being accepted you know what. I mean that make any sense. It makes sense to me. I'll give you an example of something that i think comes up a lot That i think ties into the whole blurring this Via was on twitter. And and vida vida said. I wonder if we'll see African american President in our lifetimes. What she meant was descended from American slavery and it was kind of that problem. I was talking about where a lot of people were kind of flipping out and some were agreeing disagreeing and 'cause they took african american to mean different things. Some people were like. Oh we've we've had that and you're being xenophobic. You're denying african american president or vice president in his like. Oh you being xenophobic Because you're denying the blackness of the blackness of obama and and kamala and kamla harris and she was on mighty nine their blackness. I'm talking about people from american slaves and there was that cross talk but then Someone came barreling into the chat and what was interesting was the person was even black. It was a white liberal lady. She was saying the same thing. You're erasing their blackness. And this and that and then I was asking her like how she Erasing the blackness and issues like When the police pull you over they don't and people say this a lot. I find it super insulting. I'm not even American slavery descent and i. It's super insulting as an onlooker that i find it someone salty. She goes Back the police don't check if you're Straight or gay. Don't check if you're of jamaica center nigerian descent when they pull you over Black people of all of all Different countries in races face racism. And you now Back you all around the world base oppression and it's like okay. What does it have to do with being lineage or culture. You know that would be and i asked if it was reversed if someone said i wonder if we're going to get An jiri in american President or vice president or a haitian american vice president or president. Would you say to them. Oh you're racing komo comma harris or barack obama's blackness Black people all over the world are pressed are. Police can't tell which black person is from what country they disapprove issue so therefore you should accept common harris's nigerian or you should Barack obama is haitian and count them as your first haitian american president and she was like. Oh yeah that's different because that's That's a culture array. So i was like so what you're saying is black. American culture is just suffering and being shit on by people like like they don't have like lineage. Like that's all and people do this all the time. When sam jackson brought up That thing about British actors taking american rose instead of responding with all. Well this is why. I think people should have responded. They want to respond. They should have said hey Hey acting as acting anyone should be able to play anyone as long as they're the best person for the job and i think that In these particular roles the british people were the best people for the job. And or you know. I think rack. American people should be allowed to play british people in england. They want to and and i have no problem with that. Or you know talk about the merits of. Who's the best person for the job. But instead and the guy from get out said this and other people set Yeah the police. Pull me over to bro like that. That was his response. He said You know. I face racism to and in england. You know I've been rooms where i've been and it's like do with the lineage. Has nothing to do with the culture that that's not even an answer. that's highly insulting. Like you know if if it was reversed. Because i think he's of african descent. Someone was using that to justify playing an african. Like you know well i i've been. I've been a second class citizen answer. I deserve but people don't really think of it that way So i'm just saying that's something. I noticed that being black american up descended for american slaves so a lot of people and including even the black american people. I've seen american black people of the center for american slaves uses logic and sam jackson where you know like you being divisive Racism effects. Everyone put police shoot Foreign descend the blacks. The same this belief that that's all being the center from american slaves is defined by Being shut down by white people. That's it that's the culture. That's the lineage. that's i think people. I think education has a lot to do with it but i think people have kind of adopted this whole dismissive lack of nuance when it comes to other people beside themselves. Because i've even seen on conversations you know online where people will make these false equivalences about. Oh you know the police pull me over to. But you wouldn't if you're from the one specific tribe in your country you wouldn't want to have somebody call you by another tribe and i know that's just a generalization. Don't wanna stereotype anybody. But i think what it comes down to is. One is intellectual laziness. And it's just a lack of empathy in even within. You know african american culture. You know somebody from baltimore is way different than somebody from la. And i think that you know. I hate using this term man We need to have more conversations about affording people more nuance and being empathetic in that way. if that makes sense yet but i think it's deeper than conversations. I think it's a i think. Bob watt am blacks on bottom whites on top is specially true for black americans. Because i feel like they're the purest idea of what black is and what i mean by that is people other countries. You're not really black. Unless you have non black people to really contract yourself with so people from foreign countries in the black the aspirin. They're black but there really more black when they come to this country more than any other time in their home countries there are color is in my play more of a role. Your classmates makes be more of a role like i mean. Africans don't really become black unless it's in relation to non black Black is not really a concept outside of phnom black and that's what kind of happens allow these home countries is You know they're they're black but they're not really culturally black until they come here and have to form their identity in addition to a dominant group and i think that's kind of what out this conversation so much as no the asprey group i think is as black as american descended. Blacks because their whole identity is kind of forced to be created under a dominant majority. That is not that islam black. So i have to question that because if you look at all these countries especially on african continent that were colonized and genocide by europeans for so long i think they have a very good idea of what being black means but that's what i'm saying there had the necklaces formed in. In contrast to win. They're being dealt with as whites whites but they also at the end of the day. When the colonization is over they do they are able to be in a place where there the majority where they can think about. Colonization never ended. Because if you go to the capital outflows. Colonization didn't end there even though they might be living in a place where the majority of the population there's still a small cadre of people that own eighty percent ninety percent of all the arable farmland that own all of the factories that own the means production and it's been pasta is generally for generations. Even if it's just a sliver of the population as i think the people that really really really really do know but sites to be black. Probably at a deeper level there. Because you've got to think about this if you're in a place where ninety percent of the people are black. The government isn't run by you. That's really telling you how black you walk even if your hair you know and in here you could argue that. It's even unique because people take a lot but there are minority. you know. See some would argue that you know majority rules but in a place where majority and you're still destitute black means but what i'm saying is i'm not saying they don't know what it's like to be black at all. I'm saying that the most knowledge of being black is here because here you're like thirteen fourteen percent of the population and i think Like what i'm saying. 'cause people in foreign countries foreign the aspro countries. They know they're black. They get reminded their black when they get call is when they have tourists comment treat the whole country like their servants or whatever but the way the level to which is inescapable i think is very very different so if you think of it as like a as a spectrum i think i mean i can't speak to every country but They even i know about haitians. Even used the word black. A lot of times as synonymous with black american. But if you were to ask them also if they were black they get back like. They don't think they're not black but he's still catch themselves. calling black culture black american culture because it's nothing but that is nothing but To whiteness. I think i'm i think i'm giving an understanding. Okay so i think t maybe your thing is saying that black american culture which which it is it's more seen. I don't wanna say recognized. Internationally right is that is it kind of what what you're saying. Think i think he's just let me know how i'm taking as and you could clarify if you want t but this is what i think when america what. What's the the the title in baseball called. What are you in the world series. Dependents world series. Right yeah exactly super bowl. Champions of the world champions. It's only in america though. No one else plays baseball football out here like because i don't think reward or a championship i know what i'm saying but i'm saying though with baseball being the world series is that only really two countries even play. How could you be the champion of. That's a binary you either the champion or not. I'm talking. I know but what things title it snow. The title itself is the world series. They didn't play the world to win but they call themselves. World champions my point there's a little bit of like there's a little bit of ignorance in baked into that because to be considered you know americans consider american blackness somehow different or distinct from blackness. Everywhere else you could argue that every is going on in every black nation is is unique in its own sense because look the place where there's the most black people the nation's meshal borders when even made by those people you know so i think it's baked into the consciousness of people everywhere that being black a very unique experience in this world and i just and i think that's that that that that gr- grasping you know are suffering. These unique i unit suffered special is is is different. Here is right the same wall that's being put up around blackness that divides but people were all globally. Going through the same thing. You might look somewhere else to save me just a different gravy and i think it people realize that nothing's going to change because you'll you're can have a a an oppression olympics with people that you're you're all playing the same. You're all on the same team you know so one thing i will say is i do believe there is some difference in that. I think there's a reason why Blacks of the espera tend to outperform Black of this for american slaves and now is because They're like better or smarter. Whatever but i do think there is something that comes from not having to think of your blackness all the time twenty four seven in a way. i'll say for like places like in the caribbean where you grow up and you don't have the constant messaging in the media saying that like you know your shit because you're black like all the tv shows everyone's black Your local doctor. Your teachers everything is black and this is not to say that. It's all or nothing like you know. People know that they're black people get reminders. People are have holdovers from colonialism Even tourism reminds them and stuff. But what's interesting. I love people. Don't talk about when you talk about the advantages or how how backs from the espera tend to fare better in you know school and work and stuff here and you know people use it as kind of proof that you know black. Americans are whining about racism and so forth but the studies show are within a generation. All those advantages like disappear by the time you have second generation. American would add to grow up in knowing nothing but this of being a minority and it didn't look like they perform the same as as black americans who descend from american slaves and the reason is because you're operating an assistant you're in the heart of white supremacy effectively as a minority within it s. The people here. Like i said if they had their own national project depri- would be fair a lot better off because society. We demand that they have certain amount of doctors certain amount of teachers a certain amount of engineers to maintain the infrastructure of nation. So that just plays toward the move for nationhood but then when you look at what's going on hundred years later from where we were. There's i don't think. I don't think black pride in african connectivity. As part of the general people has been any lower than it's ever been people. See a little bit more disconnected. They're chasing something totally different. They're looking for the world series championship ring as opposed to being real world champions but Yeah that's it. It's because you're a minority in the heart of the heart of the beast man your hair if they had their own. Yeah as repeat myself but yeah that's that's that's the question I remember taking a sociology class years ago. And it was something that i'm always stuck with me and It was the concept of Being even though someone A group was in america. Whatever a having a flag an language Really the having that identity is I forgot exactly what the statistics were but definitely played a positive part. I think As t- mentioned like the second third generation of people who learned the us that becomes diluted that kind of You know share. I identity and what you're saying with winfield you know Having that kind of That you know solidarity that camaraderie once you start to integrate into american society where you become a second class citizen Yet you're gonna you know whatever happens. Whatever the Social psychological word for it is called. But you definitely start to reap the negative the negative effect because those people might have done better because they knew a world outside of this place. They haven't experienced outside of this place like you said. He had examples of people that were not the things that they are hair so they had something to aspire to that was based intangible reality but by the second or third generation when they go to school the other kids who been here for a long time They come to the they start coming to the same conclusions and start building their identity in the same way as those people that have been here for a long time so they in effect become those people and as a result they will be treated that way because they psychology is that way the behaviors that way their put into the world. Is that way they just become. You know what's already hair yet. But i think i agree with that but what i'm saying that thing i'd be absorbed is is the identity of the self definition of being black before anything else like Like i feel like a lot of people. From the aspect will save i i am jamaican own I'm also black. If you asked him to describe how they define themselves or you know. I'm haitian 'cause they don't really have to think about being black all the time when everyone is black it kind of fade to the background of your the minute to minute thinking you got no point. Don't think you're not black but it's not constantly in your face and remind reminded of it as it is Here and again. I define blackness has something that exists in relation to Other races like i don't think I think back people. Have i think african people had to be made Black yeah i actually agree with not like as a person who came from ghana. I think i think what you're trying to say is like blackness is like seen as the negation of whiteness. Or if witnesses like idea of freedom than blackman's is an idea like subjugation but if you're not amongst white people in a like if you're in ghana you're not amongst white people therefore that negation of freedom is not as parent or at least not in kearns. Niger mattis appeared constant. Every minute of your day. Yeah and so coming to america. Now i would like being here twenty plus years now. I consider myself black before being gone yet. But i had to learn that. So i agree with what you're saying. I i and i don't think that in ghana. I remember people really calling themselves black or even talking about ten african them. Yeah this in the book. The history of of white people This this kind of conversation is actually takes up. The you know the the last few chapters of the book. yeah like bull. You're breaking up from me. But i don't know if it's for everyone is it just for me to okay Yeah beat you still breaking up. You're still breaking up a road to sorry Did you do something different. Because you were clear before now this driving driving right now. Oh so maybe your mouth is like moving from the Michigan has a crash. I don't want anyone to die from the book club. That's a big downer They wanna try again. Who wrote to or i'm all. Okay yeah it's still not. It's still not working. Maybe you're reception is sparked when you said he's almost song always almost. Okay yes they jump back on with his point. But then also t i was gonna wonder as what a question what do you think. The definition of blackness is here. That makes it different from everywhere. Else what i think the definition visit here. That makes it different than everywhere. Yeah yeah and when. I say i'm talking about from from the majority. The dominated perspective. I'm talking about from the perspective of the people that hold it. How do you think like identity as seen here versus somewhere else. You know that would be adding to the Disparity in outcomes and stuff. 'cause i think some of it is due to an inbuilt psychological damage or in psychological pattern. You know it's it's not natural. Yeah no it's not natural. I spoke about this woman Carole and i also spoke about. I believe his name is claude steele Who built off the research of carole. And it's pretty interesting stuff It wasn't relation to the movie and relax. People watched last week but her research ended up being used with a lot of Black people because it was her research was about a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset in the fixed mindset comes from this idea that your capacity is fixed as in it can't be improved upon. You can't do anything about it. You are who you are and you're either smart or dumb and life is about just trying to figure out from the context clues which one you are and being afraid of finding out that You're among the inferior or superior and like how that keeps people from improving and lisa. All these bad life outcomes or doing worse than school whereas if you think if you believe that your capacity is malleable and changeable In accordance to your willingness to work hard they find as all these better Outcomes that happen and people like the ability to feel that you can Improve yourself and and grow allows students like they found that students who they instill that in They're able to get all types of scholastic improvements From them and i think nationally in america. i think there's been a longstanding national project to instill in black americans. The idea that they are fixed. I'll that iq stuff like re look race night. And what a big part of the racial discourse that is and it's still won't go away. It's still something that people have to pervasively fight against no matter how often it gets debunked or whatever asks be entertained every generation brand new I think based on like directs research and steal stereotype. Research is the same thing. Apply to black people I believe the term they used was cognitive. Load like a cognitive load is when there is a certain amount of your psychic horsepower or energy constantly being dedicated toward monitoring whether you Correlate to stereotypes whether you're confirming or denying stereotype that you can never just be like if somebody is abroad in his class. Full of black people in Haiti or ghana jamaica. There's not this kind of thing. Whereas like i have to prove that black people aren't in fear because whoever the valedictorian isn't going to be black like you have the whole gamut. There is not that be able to cognitive load. Is this idea that there's a certain amount of a black person's mind dedicated At any given time toward constantly monitoring whether they Confirm or disprove stereotypes and that dish into the whole fixed mindset research There's a lot of things that happen. This country six centuries worth of propaganda and messaging to this day. That is meant to gaslight peop- black people to thinking that they're unchangeable. You know and The bell curve is probably the most recent famous one. But that's been part of the country's negro question from the beginning like are they. Are they improvable. You mean so when you say and change you mean inferior and permanently so yes yes not just inferior but permanently so or that by nature or by their. Their upper limit is Naturally lower than Why it is for other people and if you look in his country has always been a pervasive debate like the main person saying it may have always changed. But you know it's still. I mean it's still taking pretty seriously like charles murray's not a pariah he still gets Taken seriously andrew sullivan Guests to appear in like batman versus superman and right for new york magazine. It's i mean. I think there's a real message that like on the that. These people are not pariahs in the way that a holocaust denier is you know. I think when people see that to some degree they gotta kinda realize a lot of people. Think this even if they don't they say they don't even just by nature of the fact that people will entertain it debate even on the other side of it. You know with counter studies or whatever in a way to do to a holocaust now if you're a holocaust denier and you say Holocaust happen people just like get the hell out of here. You're not gonna see of jewish people doing like long drawn out cases or or liberal allies trying to say well actually you know he was all these you know for the most part. It's not even worth entertaining. And i think seeing all that i think mentally hassle really affect black americans I think when you come to this country and especially if you're born in your second generation third generation you're getting raised into that same messaging. I think you ended up buying into the same. I would say. Yeah well what. I find really difficult to understand. Is why people would. Actually you know. Buy in to take on those cultural cues. 'cause i really don't i don't believe in them at all and i think it's really obvious to see the lie because there's just so much evidence all around me prove opposite but Yeah just some things. I just really get stuck on this one of them. I don't i just don't see how people could buy it. But i mean well to me. It's like when you see someone who was raised abused and you know some people say i don't see why he just don't talk back but that person was raised different like it's it's i think when you have nothing but that forever You get kind of stockholm syndrome. You turn allies. Like people internalize their that messed up voice from that parent and some degree especially in this country like i like white people or the parents of back people. I mean i think to some degree. That's the case everywhere. But i think it's especially in escape aboard here just to the just exhibit all to say to the one thing i'm the say i think idea silliest gonna say something next but people kind of misunderstand pan-africanism because when you actually read Like marcus garvey works. Especially there's like a good section of it. that explains that you know. The status quo is not natural because we had we are all echo potential people. He actually speak those basic human tenants in his work. Saying that you know there's nothing that someone else can have that you cannot have because you have the ability to build it too and Yeah i feel like just moving away from that is probably partly why we have the situation or in because if we actually saw sells. I'm not even saying it's better. You know because that's goes into a phobia and all that other stuff but if we just saw ourselves as equal really believed it. Then we you know national push wouldn't be seen as impossible solidarity wouldn't be seen as impossible you know But at some point on the line is the weakest people being picked or the most malleable get get bought or this or this betrayal. Because if you really believe that you were and you can have equal and do or even do more. You wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't. You wouldn't go down there debt you know. Let us to worry today. Anyone else have any thoughts. Because i don't want to turn way conversation or go on now. I think that you know Brought up some very good good points man. But the soul like notion of indoctrination. This really makes me think of like what newly fuller it talks about. And you know the nine areas of activity And how that plays a role into that psychological thinking know Especially when it comes to know black people here in this country and so here you go. I'm sure i'm back on or you sound very clear now. Much better much better. Yeah yeah. I was say like The end of the history of white people That in the end of that entire book Basically shows that whiteness minority by the today needs blackness. It's just a suit i even. If somebody reads the last four chapters like it's amazing and you kind of were talking about that t- when you mentioned the reysen iq and how with the growth mindset and stuff like it's it's deep man. It's really something that's been happening in the us for a long time and Yes something that we been internalized not not only as you know black people but You know this whole concept that we saw in the past five years about western civilization in these type of things. This is actually really really old ideas yum very get repackaged. Yeah and someone. Each generation shows up like in the seventies. Was this guy because name was shockley. And he said debate francis cross welson stuff and he's get interviewed in playboy magazine like it was very mainstream and he got this credited because he went too far in the playboy magazine interview. They asked them the question that no one asked him up until that point didn't said wait. Okay this is all fine and good. But what do you do with this information. Like we all day and night. If black people are genetically inferior intellectually whatever but What do you wanna do about it and up until then. That was the first person i ever asked him that Ironically enough even like francis wilson and the rest of them all they did was just debate him on the merits of the i thing and then he said well You can sterilize. Said all the second heinous stuff was busy eugenics and then boom he was gone. That was the end of his public Career yet camario said shock these nobel prize winner. Yeah but it can be surprising. The generated by and stuff. And i that alone. Kind of Effect black people to see it being to see their intelligence being sincerely debated not even by them but by other people and that people have every race or joining in. And you're forced to entertain seriously but Yes was gone but then they learn each time. Because if you look charles murray you know they learn from shockley you charles. Murray does not advocate. He does the same playbook as shockley but they know now. You don't actually say what you're going to do and if you are asked you play coy in. It's yeah it's It it's it's weird. I don't know maybe somebody has a all and could take on this but it seems like for the past hundred years It's been about you know. Hold them black people down like And and something. That is interesting. Because i'm what europe was able to do Was you know. take over the world. But like you'll like astra's freaking huge even how we look at matt's maps are are represented. You know really. You know a warped and africa looks like a really small continent stuff and it's full of people so it just it just kind of seems like this this. This is like You know to to suppress black americans and suppress The group of people in the most powerful country in the world is know I caught like a united project By a lot of different groups of because you know with the stands for Is you know it's it's not wrong. You know like a descendant of slaves are owed you know for six hundred years of free labor you know. And and Has its a seems like you know as as reactionary or whatever the word you wanna tied to aid. us Justice claim is legit slow. I think is kind of what The american project has has has been about is to is to suppress that justice claim. Let alone the all the other countries that uses. Fuck with bill o. Past you know a hundred So that three hour mark. So i try not to let it go Too far past three hours so You know anyone wants to keep talking about it Or in general you know after we start recording is fine. But i thought we'd leave this last five or ten minutes for anyone who wants to share any final parting thoughts about The reading today to do so low to tie back to what you in winfield we're talking about about the blackness and how we define it in like how we own to tie that back to settlers. The way that i've always looked at it is that Laxness has largely been the construct of white people to sort of negate to use what mario was talking about to negate african people's humanity. And in a way you're talking about in africa you're not really black. T. how 'bout lists the case at one point. Have you know people who we now call black ethnically were once african book. They were transported to the slave trade so america in their culture their histories race in there. Just give the place in black. And i feel like a lot of the discourse around this where we're trying to come up with name soar. Even higher subs nationally will get a saudi diffused. Like how sky was talking about even tie back to ask that question funky. I think about how how we organize now. The communist party usa largely was the subway colonial organization but in software was lack nationalistic. One in to try to square that where you have a lot of the discourse being guided by white supremacists notes in the blackness. The tries to muddle the lines between woodenness speed. Black racially like royd and black ethnically like idiot less. Because you're saying how you get into these arguments with like white people trying to say like all year racing these people's blackness in so and so like that's like a part of the problem that winfield is addressing the bill recourse between black people. Move all of the other aspects to try to weed out to buy say to white people in black people were speaking these white. Supremacist talking points like no. This is what we mean. This is what we need to talk about. We need to have institutions to really solidify what we mean so when we have groups like ideo or black white snyder we have actual platform to launch demands from rather than sort of going along with what the framework has already been presented for Sweb the way that i was meeting this chapter how they were saying how the southern tenant farmers union was stood. Coopting this Black militancy for their own benefit. That's only been keep on happening in happening. So long as we don't have our own national but organization group coalition. Whatever it's going to be but it needs based in national struggle of blackness. Wanna call it. Anyone else wants to have any Parting thoughts on the book before we go. Thanks for sharing. Boyd broadway okay. Serve seems like everyone is talked out. So i think is a good place to end it. thanks everyone for joining us and also You know if you're listening to this on the replay feel free to join us in the next installments. Fridays book club saturday movie night. And all you have to do is just figure out how to connect to the discord. And if you can't figure out how to connect to the champagne sharks Voice chat discord server. Either your dms on patriots or senator email champagne sharks at gmail.com all right and thanks everyone. If you body be good and see you guys next week.

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