Aired 2 weeks ago 1:38
National Museum Of Women Discussed on 106.1 FM WTKK
106.1 FM WTKK
From the news
Aired 3 months ago 47:04
Air & Space Museum Director - Ellen Stofan, Head of the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum
“If we don’t ever fail, then we’re not pushing the envelope.” Ellen Stofan on Green Connections Radio When Ellen Stofan stepped off the management track to stay home with her kids and work part-time, she accepted that she was probably derailing her career. She kept a few toes in the game over the 12 year period, working part-time doing a few interesting research projects that she could do on her own time. Today, she finds herself the new Director of the famed Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC -- the most visited museum in the United States -- and spearheading its ~$1 billion transformation, as the first woman in this prestigious role. Wait, really? Listen to this fascinating conversation Dr. Stofan had with Green Connections Radio host Joan Michelson in person at the museum's Udvar-Hazy location by Dulles airport in Virginia. Hear how she got this job, and: How they design exhibits, choosing between 60,000+ artifacts, 5,500 works of art, 1.75 million photographs, 14,000 videos/films and 12,000+ cubic feet of documents. Redesigning nearly every aspect of the most popular museum – innovating out loud while talking about innovation in aerospace (from WWII pilots being able to see each other, to drones, e.g.) Showing climate change from air and space – how it affects each one of us on the planet -- and is urgent. Why failure is critical to success – "If we don’t ever fail, then we’re not pushing the envelope," Stofan said. Building a career, and advancing in STEM, especially as a woman – including how she went from stay-at-home mom to leading the famed museum (and Chief Scientist at NASA before the museum). Career tips that might surprise you, such as,“Think about who you’re going to be and what you’re going to contribute”. And so much more! What’s YOUR favorite exhibit at the Air and Space museum? What suggestions do you have for the renovation? Tweet it to us @joanmichelson or post it on our Facebook Page (and ask to join our new private Facebook group) You’ll probably also want to listen to: Alison Brown, CEO of the Science Museum of Minnesota Barbara Whye, VP of Human Resources and Chief Diversity Officer, Intel Cindy Simpson, Chief Development Officer, Assn. for Women in Science Ellen Williams, Former Director of ARPA-E, Innovation at the Dept. of Energy All of these and many more – plus blogs and other resources – are available at www.greenconnectionsradio.com. Listen also on iTunes or iHeartRadio, Spotify or other podcast networks. Subscribe to our podcasts to receive them right away and to our newsletter to be ahead of the curve. To learn more about Green Connections Radio, go to www.greenconnectionsradio.com. Thanks for subscribing on iTunes or iHeartRadio and leaving us a review! Email us: firstname.lastname@example.org or reach us on Twitter @joanmichelson
Green Connections Radio - Insights on Innovation, Sustainability, Clean Energy, Leadership, Entrepreneurship, and Careers w Top Leaders, Women
Aired 2 weeks ago 4:57
Senegal's Stunning Gold Jewelry ... And The Controversial Women Who Wore It
An exhibit at the Smithsonian's National Museum of African Art highlights intricate gold work that nearly disappeared — as well as its past ties to a morally complicated group of powerful women.
NPR's World Story of the Day
Aired Last month 42:13
Sex(ism), Drugs, and Migraines
Egyptian scriptures from 1200 BCE describe painful, migraine-like headaches, so we know the disorder has afflicted people for at least three thousand years. Still, the condition continues to mystify us today. Anne Hoffman is a reporter, a professor, and a chronic migraine sufferer. She spent the past year tracing the history of migraines, hoping to discover clues about a treatment that actually works for her. The journey took her in some interesting directions. One common theme she found? A whole lot of stigma. Credits Hosts: Alexis Pedrick and Elisabeth Berry Drago Senior Producer: Mariel Carr Producer: Rigoberto Hernandez Reporter: Anne Hoffman Photo illustration by Jay Muhlin Additional audio production by Dan Drago Music Theme music composed by Zach Young. "Valantis" and "Valantis Vespers" by Blue Dot Sessions, courtesy of the Free Music Archive. Additional music courtesy of the Audio Network. Research Notes Interviews Matthew Crawford, Doan Fellow, Science History Institute. Margaret Heaney, professor of neurobiology, Columbia University Irving Medical Center. Joanna Kempner, sociologist and author of Not Tonight: Migraine and the Politics of Gender and Health. Anne MacGregor, medical researcher and clinician. Brian McGeeney, assistant professor of neurology, Boston University School of Medicine. Sources Brooklyn Museum, Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art. “Hildegarde of Bingen.” McClory, Robert. “Hildegard of Bingen: No Ordinary Saint.” National Catholic Reporter, March 24, 2012. Meares, Hadley. “The Medieval Prophetess Who Used Her Visions to Criticize the Church.” Atlas Obscura, July 13, 2016. PBS Frontline. “Hildegard’s Scivias.” Songfacts. Für Hildegard Von Bingen. Wikipedia. “Scivias.” Last modified October 23, 2018, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scivias. Cannabidiol (CBD): Bazelot, Michaël, Chen Tong, Ibeas Bih, Dallas Mark, Clementino Nunn, Alistair V. W. Whalley Benjamin. “Molecular Targets of Cannabidiol in Neurological Disorders.” Neurotherapeutics 12 (2015): 699–730. Chen, Angus. “Some of the Parts: Is Marijuana’s ‘Entourage Effect’ Scientifically Valid?” Scientific American, April 20, 2017. Grinspoon, Peter. “Cannabidiol (CBD)—What We Know and What We Don’t.” Harvard Health Blog, Harvard Health Publishing, Harvard Medical School, August 24, 2018. Science Vs. “CBD: Weed Wonder Drug?” Podcast audio, November 15, 2018.. Migraine: Kempner, Joanna. “The Birth of the Dreaded ‘Migraine Personality.’” Migraine Again, November 30, 2017. Neighmond, Patti. “Why Women Suffer More Migraines Than Men.” Shots: Health News from NPR, National Public Radio, April 16, 2012. Peterlin, B. Lee, Saurabh Gupta, Thomas N. Ward, and Anne MacGregor. “Sex Matters: Evaluating Sex and Gender in Migraine and Headache Research.” Headache 51(6) (2011): 839–842. Sharkey, Lauren. “Why Don’t We Know More about Migraines?” BBC Future, British Broadcasting Corporation, July 2, 2018. Wikipedia. “Aretaeus of Cappadocia.” Last modified December 6, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretaeus_of_Cappadocia. Cannabis for Migraine: Mandal, Ananya. “Migraine History.” News-Medical, August 23, 2018. MDede. “Are Cannabinoids and Hallucinogens Viable Treatment Options for Headache Relief?” Neurology Reviews 22(5) (2014): 22–23. Available at MDedge, Clinical Neurology News. Archival: Grass—The History of Marijuana. Directed by Ron Mann. Toronto: Sphinx Productions, 1999. Hildegard of Bingen. Directed by James Runcie. London: British Broadcasting Corporation, 1994. Reefer Madness. Directed by Louis J. Gasnier. Los Angeles: George A. Hirliman Productions, 1938.
Distillations: Science + Culture + History
Aired 3 months ago 21:14
16: SPECIAL: Women and Power, Episode One
Hello. I'm Alan power. And you're listening to a special episode of the national trust podcast in a slight departure from our normal upload Joel this month. We're bringing you an extra episode earlier this year, we launched many podcast series called women power in conjunction with our national public program of the same name women power marks one hundred years since the representation of the people act and some women being granted the right to vote over five episodes this podcast series. Looks the connection that trust has to the suffrage movement. Today. We'll be giving you a sample of this series by sharing episode. One women empowers presented by Carson. And she'll be your narrator for the rest of this episode. We hope you enjoy up sewed one of women power. I'm just outside the house of lords in Westminster where one hundred years ago meters. From where I'm standing and act was passed that gave women the right to vote in UK general elections for the very first time, the focus on early female suffrage campaign is in the UK tens descend on the actions of the Suffragettes in London, but the pass to the voting rights. We enjoy today has a much more complicated story. It was a national movement fought by women and men of all classes, people of all ages and in locations right across the UK people who lived in work places now in the care of the national trust were also involved and influential threat the campaign this year right across the trust properties are delving into their archives for the stories of people who took part in or bore witness to these momentous events in this five part series. You'll hear how stewards curator's. Volunteers and experts and unique account of trust people in places helped bring about the freedoms that we enjoy today in this episode, we go back almost three hundred years to witness the events that led to suffrage becoming the topic at the forefront of nineteenth century politics. Anti the trust quarry, Bank and Bodman gardens are connected to Britain's first wave of female suffrage activists, I'm Kirsty work. And this is women and are opposed cast from the national trust. The events that led to women I gaining the vote in the UK can be traced back as far as the mid eighteenth century. And what was then the small northern time by the name of Manchester. In the early seventeen hundreds Manchester is home to just ten thousand inhabitants. But as it's caught in making becomes industrialized is he's an influx of workers from all over the world. Here's Helen Andrus curator the people's history museum. It's the small town of suddenly becomes the heart of industry and the heart of exchange by the mid eighteen hundreds Manchester has become a burgeoning city of four hundred thousand the continual stream of people and products, make Manchester's landowners, merchants and industrialists rich as the Gulf between the city's rich and poor grows. Worker stock to talk revolt. We see all these small radical moments William Wilberforce, speak inherit managed the about the ability of slavery. You see ABRAHAM LINCOLN right in a less of a help him with the blockade the working class fighting for their own rights. Manchester becomes the center of cotton in the UK mills. Dr pop up all over the city, earning Manchester, the nickname, cotton operas, Manchester to start out with these big factories, but very soon that changes and actually the factories move out of this big city that suddenly blossomed even before Manchester's cotton, boom. A mills TJ located outside Manchester in the small village of style is the trust managed quarry Bank. Here's the national trust. Emma richmond. As you approach quarry Bank. You feel like you've come to quite a secluded spot. Trees everywhere, you're out in the countryside. And he of walked down through the screen, and it's quite surprising. Actually when you stumble across this big redbrick mill dominating the landscape. Functional building with its chimney floating up into the sky. It's a feat for much nation to Casterman back to will the hustle and bustle and high volatility that it would have been right. The south the the nineteenth century when it was a fully operating mill. We're looking down at the mail at quarry Bank. But just a few yards to the right? You can see quarterback Cass which was the family home of the Miller this if we make our way down to quarterback house weaken took a little bit more about how the Greg family lived. The Greg's have traditionally been a merchant family that is until a young and embarrass Samuel. Greg is seduced by the potential business opportunities. He sees in cotton production when the site quarry Bank becomes available to lease Samuel seizes the opportunity to build his first mill there. It's a business decision that will see Samuel become one of Britain's biggest producers of cotton within that community of mill workers and servants sits the Greg family home located just meters from their large working mill the estate hit very much is a microcosm of life in the early industrial. Revolution is one of the only surviving industrial revolution sites where you can see the complete industrial community the male with it's working machinery, the mellowness family home. You have that gardens that wider state that they used as pleasure grounds. You also have the apprentice house what child work. Would've left and style village where the mill workers lived, and this is pretty much the only site where you can see that whole community and how their lives intertwined. Withstanding in the drawing room of Corey cows out the drawing window of many windows of the house, you go this tastic view down the river along the riverbank where you've got ready to dendritic and in may and June. They really burst into full color. You can't see what no window in house would have shown you at the time is the mill which is right next door. Samuel's decision to build his home in such close proximity to the mill is common for many early industrialists. It enables them to show off their wealth status and achievements to all who come to visit the fresh air and open space of style. Makes it a relatively pleasant place to live especially when compared to the lives of workers in the city of Manchester, just twelve miles away a place where radical thinking continues to brew. Here's so Duncan junior. Dean of arts at the university of Oxford. Some of the most radical lychees coming at Manchester. It's very modern city. It can be seen by the parts of the country is quite brash. But it's not surprising that you've got a different kind of urban thinking an elite, but springing up there in eighteen nineteen the festering discontent explodes onto the streets of Manchester. Radical speaker and agitator Henry orator hunt comes to the city for talk about new laws that leave workers unable to afford basic food. He joins with the Manchester reform society to organize a rally, but what starts out as a peaceful garnering quickly. Turns into was now known as the Peter new massacre soldiers descend upon the protesters Henry hunters, arrested women and children are attacked and many spectators are crushed and killed. Helen, Andrew is again. So Fritsch is the biggest issue that's come payment. And it's one of the first times we see so fridge being campaigned for in such. Mass-scale? What's really interesting is the Manchester women's reform Mississippi at that. But one that depicted on cartoons at the time after Pete Lou that depicted as these ugly, overweight, stupid women who are only doing it to get mail attention. 'cause of people starting to think yet, maybe the work in mount should have the vote. Maybe we should in franchise more people, but not women. So even though it's great that we look at each Lou. And we see so many people become in aware of the fridge and fight him fridge women still out if the pitcher few from the upper classes choose to use their wealth and influence to support the fight for workers rights, but in eighteen sixty six this is all about to change. A new law that discriminates against female street workers alters the way some wealthier women decide to use their status. The law is the contagious diseases act. Here's oxford. Sophie duncan. This was a series of legislation where police could seize from the streets any woman, they suspected of being a prostitute. What can class women could be seized from the streets, and brutally internally examined that was such a horrific idea for women who have not been politically active tool that that got them involve? And so you have these very nicely. Brought up women these good Victorian families who suddenly on discussing in that room rooms, I'm fundraising fool, what can cost women some of prostitutes. And that really is a turning point. One woman incensed by the act is Alice Dawson, granddaughter to the owners of Corey Bank mill and a passionate campaigner for the axe repeal Ruth Colton research associate from the university of Manchester speaks from the study at quarry Bank house where else would have spent much of her time Alice Dosen in eighteen seventy I became involved in this campaign. This is one of the first times when women actually are in very visible way, actively campaigning against the government. So I think for a lot of a lot of men whose whose wives as well. We're taking part in this campaign. We should have been a shock moment. Seeing these women actually actively involved in in politics in this dramatic way, they really had a voice and vision for the first time rather than taking to the streets protesting in public. The preferred method of protest by upper class. Ladies is a well. Penned letter letter writing was. Credibly powerful. The time Alice was a fervent letter writer, these letters actually would have had a real impact on the people who receiving them particularly given who she was into science. If we move over to the desk care in the study, we can read some of her diary entries and some snippets from the letters that she wrote. So this next up from Alice diary from eighteen seventy one. So she don't just become involved in the campaign to repeal the contagious diseases act. And she said Mr. Bruce said in the house last night that the government would not do anything about this CD axe. That's a contagious diseases acts this session if they had been any hardship or grievance. They would have felt bound to, but it's unnecessary. And there is no time excetera a one we angry. I couldn't resist writing to Mississippi to tell him. So what three nice about this, quote is that it really reveals some of her personality and she signs off with. I couldn't resist writing to Mr. beat tell him. So Mr. bathing, Mr. Bruce who'd been speaking. And it just reveals again that she immediately jumped back into action as a response to what had been happening in parliament. So after the repeal of the contagious diseases act Alice like lots of other middle class women who'd been involved in the repeal looks around for other campaigns for women's right? So they could get involved in those women don't have to wait long in eighteen eighty six the contagious diseases act is repealed and an event takes place. That will kick start the suffrage movement. We knew today since the peace Lou massacre. Some progress has been made with male suffrage, the great reform act of eighteen thirty two has extended voting rights for men, but progress for women has remained stagnant. However, an MP by the name of John Stuart mill is confident. This can be changed. He hopes he can persuade the government to amend the great reform act to include women suffragette historian. Jane grant, explains more John Stuart mill the philosopher who is also a member of parliament wanted to bring in and amendment which said that women could be in franchised and in order to do this. He invited women to drop a petition asking for this. And they managed to drop petition of fourteen hundred ninety-nine names, which if you think of it in a pre digital age was a head of people one of the people who helped to collect these names was medicine force it she was nineteen. She was too young to sign it. But she was old enough to connect the names for it. And although it was unsuccessful it didn't it didn't change the reform Bill this act of the petition set in motion the whole process of the suffrage movement. And after that, you know, oganizations Spang up everywhere across the country women's set up grassroots organisations to campaign for female suffrage a year after the failure of John Stewart Mills petition the national society for women's suffrage is established in Manchester by amateur biologist, Lydia Becker. She. She holds what is thought to be the first ever public meeting for female suffrage? The meeting is attended by many women who go on to become influential in the suffrage movement among the crowd and eleven year old girl watches eagerly as her mother takes to the stage. This is Laura Putin of Baden gardens in north Wales. I'm Becky Hitchens. And I'm the vista experienced manager at Baden garden in north Wales. It's an eighty acre garden is a real coach will dream, and this was the home of law McLaren and her family, Henry Davis. Poaching and his wife Agnes poaching. And they were both real free thinkers, they were radical reformers, really they they were keen to make the world better place, and they passed that onto. Henry actually, Chad the very first public meeting on women's suffrage in the eighteen sixties, Henry, Chad fat agnus spoke, a nor attended in that audience. They did receive abuse afterwards. I think she would find the bravery really inspiring the thing they were fighting for was just and right and fair. And she wanted to continue that forward. Laura was a really prolific writer. She wrote loads of letters to various people she right to newspapers. She wrote speeches. We've been lucky enough to be able to access some of that in the family archive. I can show you some of that today if you wanna come this way. Laura, later, marries. She pens, her letters and correspondence under her married. Name of Laura. Mclaren. There are lots and lots of lessons that all right? And she's writing letters right from the eighteen seventies up to nine hundred eighteen she writes to people that she didn't know as less of introduction. She writes to the press a lot and one of my favorite quotes that she she says. And nation ruled by men alone is like a bird which tries to fly with one wing behind. It rises flutters and falls again debt to I'm vine that win and have patience till it gain strength than men and women will rise together and lift humanity to heights before unknown. She's a really powerful writer. She uses words in a really creative way to use of and -nology. And she makes it she hits it home to the people that are listening. So she talks about stuff that's really relevant and. She's witty. She's funny. She's she's incredible. With scores of regional suffrage groups spread across the country and now much older Millicent Fawcett decides they're strengthened numbers in eighteen ninety seven. She phones the national union of women's suffrage societies more commonly known as the Suffragettes militants. Hope is that her union will create a single force to lobby the government and finally put female suffrage on the political agenda Suffragettes activity starts immediately. Here's Jane grunt. Their methods were lobbying marching public. Speaking letters end the politicians were absolutely bombarded despite their collective force and persistence, the suffrage just campaign isn't making the impact that Millicent had hoped for the sophists were having little success. Their methods were they were. Fighting really hard and consistently and so on, but but actually nothing was happening. Nothing much was happening. This lack of progress does not go unnoticed by members of the union quarry banks Alice Dawson, ni- secretary to her local suffrage society. Feels this must be addressed. You get the sense from some of what she says that had she been a bit younger. Maybe should have liked to have been involved in a much more direct way with the suffrage movement. There are three women in particular who share Alice's sentiment a mother and two daughters by the names of Emily, Sylvia and Christabel Pankhurst in nineteen Ninety-three with growing frustration. They split for militants national union of women's suffrage societies and found the women's suffrage and political union. Their group will move from the lady like protest favored by Millicent Fawcett to militant activism, which will change the face of the suffrage movement in unimaginable ways. Next time on women. Par we explore how the turn of the twentieth century brought a new energy urgency and notoriety to the fight for women's suffrage. And host some of the trust was unassuming locations with a breeding ground for activists involved in many of the suffrage campaigns most notorious actions. Women and power is more than just this podcast. To celebrate the Tinari of the representation of the people act the national trust is running a year long program of talks exhibitions and installations as well as publishing guide guidebooks and online articles. To learn more, but the national trust's women and power program. Go to national trust dot org dot came forward slash women and power and to learn more about the trust locations. Featured in this episode type quarry Bank mill are Bodman into the search part of our website, national, trust, dot or dot UK. Make sure you don't miss next week's episode by subscribing on apple podcasts or wherever you find great audio while you were there, you might also enjoy episodes of the trust flagship audio program the national trust podcast to find out. More about audio programming from the national trust Goto, national trust dot org dot UK forward slash podcasts. Thanks for listening to the special episode of the national trust podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode you can find the remainder of this series on apple or Google podcasts. Spotify or at national trust dot org dot U K forward slash podcasts. Next week. We'll be back to a usual Joe until then from me, Allen, power goodbye.
National Trust Podcast
Aired 3 months ago 54:36
The. This is designed matters with millman from design observer dot com. For fourteen years now to be moment has been talking with designers and other creative people what they do how they got to be who they are. And what they're thinking about and working on on this podcast, Debbie talks with the museum director film, golden about the power of curation, cultural landscape is not fixed. It can be shifted and changed and we can claim places in it. Here's debbie. I'd like to thank two of the patrons that helped make design matters possible is your team designing an app from scratch rethinking the look and feel of your brand maybe taking on something massive transforming your brand's entire customer journey. Well, don't do it. The old way passing. Numberless one off comes through endless emails. Instead, do it all in one place. Do it in a Doobie XT now for free with the new starter plan? Adobe exte- combines the ability to both design prototype and share in a single solution. It's combination of creativity and productivity let's your team's eliminate bottlenecks and simplify workflows. They can now create an interactive prototype, and then share it with teammates and reviewers in a single place. It keeps up with today's creative demands. By letting your team. Work when and where they want across windows, I o s the web and more adobe exte- has helped big brands change the way they create and review. Prototypes. At a large scale. So don't do it. The old way. Use adobe X. Stay the design platform for the future. Available today for free for more information. Visit XT dot adobe dot com today, wicks dot com, puts the creative power of building dynamic web sites. Back into the hands of designers as anyone who has spent time in a whizzy wig platform knows what you see is it necessarily. Always what you get on the flip side for some. It's far too easy to get lost in code and lose the forest for the trees, wicks dot com. Allows you to find your own personal sweet spot and take control of your site would their drag and drop editor hundreds. Of advanced design features such as retina ready. Image galleries, custom fund sets HD video and parallel scrolling effects and even service hassle-free coding for robust websites and locations with wicks dot com. You have total control of your web design like never before. So join wicks his brilliant community of designers artists and creatives at large around the world for free and ask yourself. What will you create today? Some kids dream of becoming artists Thelma golden dreamed of becoming a curator and her dream king. True in nineteen Ninety-three Thelma golden brought many non white non male artists into the Whitney biennial, which he co curated that year nineteen Eighty-four. She curated another show with the Whitney, titled the black man representations of met Lindy in contemporary, American art. It was controversial and put her on the map as fearless curator with a gift for disturbing the racial status quo in art. She is currently the director and chief curator of the museum in Harlem where she continues to provoke and inspire Thelma golden welcome to design manners. Thank you. It's fantastic to be here. Thank you them. I think people would be surprised to learn that given how immersed you are in the art world your walls at home are for the most part plank. Any particular reason why well, I think that as someone who has the privilege of being in a museum every day of having the experience to look at art and be around art all day. I have often welcomed in my home environment. Having a kind of mental space created out of the physical space that comes from not always engaging with art now, it's not to say, no art at all. Of course. I live with amazing fantastic pieces of art. But not in a way that I'm curator at home. Now, I knew that you're a native New Yorker, you grew up in queens, and then went to the Buckley country day school on Long Island and just as a really sort of wonderful serendipitous coincidence. I'm also a native New Yorker, I also lived in queens, and I also went to school on Long Island, but not at the Buckley country day school knowing new used to dance, and you took piano lessons were you ever interested in becoming a musician. No, I wasn't at all. I mean. I love music. I love dance. I love the arts a child, but I think when I look back now what I understood I love was the idea of self expression, but I did not necessarily even in those days when I was taking dance lessons or music lessons. I had no aspirations towards a professional life in those fields. Your dad was an insurance broker and your mom worked on community and social causes. And it's been written that by the time. You were ten years old you were reading the near times every single morning. What was it about the New York Times that you found so captivating at ten years old? Well, that was really the influence of my father who, you know, in those days in queens, there were several newspapers that were in queens and Long Island. Yes. So that the New York Times was the paper in many ways of Manhattan, but my father who was a man who believed deeply in education, believe deeply knowledge. He read a law. With reading the Long Island press in the daily news and Newsday read the New York Times got at home delivered. And this was almost considered an extravagance, but he believed in it. And he would read the New York Times in the morning. He would point out articles more often than not point out articles as a way to talk about issues and quite often as I expressed my interest in the arts, or in culture, he would point to particular articles and actually give them to me. So that by the time, I was ten or eleven that was happening. And by the time, I got to high school. He was separating out the sections and leaving the art section for me. And I read it on the subway on my way to school. That's amazing. I was looking if I got the comic section from Long Island news day. I'm wondering if you can tell us about the postcards and arch owes you'd stage in your bedroom as a kid hell visiting museums was a great joy. And I I went to museums as part of the field trips in my school. I had a fence. Tastic teacher Lucille buck who took us to museums all over not only in Manhattan, but also on Long Island and queens really my introduction to some of this cities in this regions, great institutions and whenever we went on a field trip. I would buy postcards from the museum gift show. You know? Of course, this is in the days, you know, before the internet, and that was how you could. Then have the images that you saw on the walls, and I collected these postcards, and I would hang them on the wall and the bulletin board in my room, but as I became more interested in art, I realized that I began that interest in many times in looking at these works often that were from different periods different kinds of our putting them together. The Mattingly beginning to look for what they said to each other beginning to express my own sense of artistic knowledge, and in some ways taste, and I understand you liked the game masterpiece. You know, I didn't like the game master piece, but I. I was so lucky that someone gave it as a gift to my brother. And I and my brother hated the gay masterpiece and never want to play it. So it meant that then the cards that were in masterpiece, which are all great reproductions of works of art, ultimately became mine discarded the rest of the game. But we were able I was able to have those images and again through my life whenever I encounter one of the works of art that was featured in that game in a museum in person. I still have the same charge that I did when I was twelve or thirteen encountering those works in the reproduce form. I understand that for your tenth anniversary at the stadium. Jozy your staff gave you a copy of the now out of print board game scoured EBay for months? And I was thrilled to get ahead and seen it in. So many years was it. What you remember in a way, it wasn't simply because as I said, my brother was so interested in it. We never played the game. So what I remember about it? I realized was so a condition by the fact that I immediately went to it. For the content in nineteen seventy five again when you were ten years old the movie mahogany came out. And you've stated that the movie was completely transformative for you in what way when I saw the movie. Mahogany, I at first was of course, in thrall d- by this vision of beauty and glamour. Now, of course, I went into the movie with that vision of beating glamour as represented by Dan Haraz, but in the character, Tracy chambers, this young woman who's, you know, working in a department store, but has this aspiration to be a world famous designer is discovered by photographer, sir, dip, it Asli, and then is transported off to Rome to become a famous model. But with again, a love story attached to it as she becomes involved with a politician. Who's literally ready to lead the people and create change in. The community was Billy Dee Williams. It was Billy Dee Williams. And so the combination of both this story of her finding her creative voice. And the story of you know, what it means to be in community was it. But it also was important to me because the vision of this idea of her ambition was inspiring. Yeah. That movie was also transformative for me. I think I'm just a little bit older than you. But it was something that captivated me. Just the way she was able to draw those beautiful beautiful outfits that she was designing the way she used Inc. In her drawings was mesmerizing TIMMY, no one had also it's what of course, vented my love of fashion. It created for me, a whole sort of style goals of the highest level, and it really, and so many ways was an incredible way where began to understand ideas of black beauty. Now. I believe that you began. Planning your career in the art world following a sixth grade art history class, can you tell us about what happened then well that art history class was the moment in which I understood that art could be studied, you know, to that point. I take an art classes and understood art making was in vested in the idea of self expression, but studying our history and understanding the way in which the study of art history was really a study of history study of culture fascinated me. And I had an incredible teacher Lucille ball who taught us art history. Very formally and supplemented that with those fantastic visits to museums. And I began to understand that what we saw on the walls. The museums was created by someone I didn't know the term curator at that moment. I didn't understand the actual job trajectory, but I did understand when I went into museums that somebody made that possum. And I began to think what could it mean. Or what would it mean to work in a museum my first encounters with museum professionals were museum doses? And I thought that perhaps was the job, you know, when you go to a museum, and it'd be fantastic people mostly women who would give tours, but do it in such a way that really brought you into the art into the moment. But as I moved through elementary school into high school, I had the opportunity to intern at the Metropolitan Museum, and that one I fully understood all of the different jobs that were existed in a museum and really decided then that I want that's what I wanted to do. I know that you were also captivated by the museum guards. And you've said this about the experience, I was deeply nurtured by museum guards who were incredibly gratified to see me, a young black woman in those museums. Many of those men have passed on now but early in my career, they all still worked in music. Liam's and saw me become a curator. I was invisible in the museums the patrons, but the guards would come around the corners film. I understand that. That's how you discover Jacob Lawrence's migration series. Is that correct? Yes, it was through a guard at the museum modern art guard who'd been there by then already twenty years when he retired from museum modern art he'd been there for forty years, but was someone who saw me often there, but then took it upon himself to point out the works of art, very significantly by African American artists, and very particularly made me understand the genius of Jacob Lawrence and the masterwork that that series is and that really began my understanding of art history. I and how art history is written through these various artists voices. You mentioned getting a job as a high school intern at the met had us one gogo getting an internship as a high school student at the met the. Politics Ziam like so many of our great cultural institutions, including the studio museum has a fantastic high school program. It's a program that combines art education and instructions so I was in that program for year taught by amazing artist Rica, Burnham and Randy Williams, and then there was a program called the apprentice program, which was a high school internship program. Which placed you in a museum department to work three days a week after school through the fall and the spring semester. And I was a apprentice at the Metropolitan Museum in my junior and senior year in high school, it was during your internship that you've said that you found your purpose and realize that your life's work would be curing, and you declared I began to understand that all of these works on the walls were actually created by people who had this deep expertise in particular, kind of artwork a particular period. And that to me. Came fascinating as an idea that that was a job that that was a job. I could do and that's pretty profound realization to have so early in life. You never wanted to be anything after that. You never considered becoming a fine artist yourself. Well, I don't know if it was a profound revelation as much as I just thought I could speak it into existence. Wow. I just thought I knew this is what I wanted to do. And I was a high school intern at the Metropolitan Museum. I would be there in these afternoons after school walking through sometimes on Monday, those galleries when no one was in the galleries in the presence of incredible centuries of art the evidence of you know, man's highest aspiration through artistic practice. And I just knew that this is what I wanted to do. But actually, the apprentice program also showed me curator's at work, the real work. The research, the intellectual work the labor that goes into making exhibition making meaning for. Visitors in and around art, and I respect that. And I knew at that point. I did not have that skill, but I pledged to myself in my aspiration, then towards college and beyond that, that's what I wanted to do. And I understand that you made a conscious choice not to be an art historian in retrospect, it seems conscious, but perhaps more accurately I knew I wanted to be a curator and I wanted to work in museums. And because I went to college majored in art history and African American studies graduated from college and began working immediately muse in museums. The fact that I was actually doing the work already made me know that the detour potentially in those early years of my career towards graduate school would not necessarily be a satisfying. I didn't know necessarily that. That was the right decision to make I've deep respect for the academy. And. To understand how art historical training could have put me on a different equally fantastic path. But it was so clear once I got into the work itself. I was in a museum and working in and around art and artists that that's what I wanted to be you attended Smith College and received your BA in art history. And African American studies as you mentioned, and while you were there you interned at the campus museum and worked on a show about the schools alumnus store. He canning Millan the first professional curator at MoMA. She had been appointed in nineteen forty seven during a time when very very few women had roles like that in formal institutions did the work of Dorothy influencial completely working on that exhibition was transformative because it gave me an example of kind of Curators. I wanted to be you know, in her role at the museum of modern art. She did a series of pioneering exhibitions that are now referred to as. A group called the Americans. But at the time they were named by the number thirteen Americans, twelve Americans. But when you look over the course of those exhibitions and at the middle of the century, they really documented the massive shift in art and art making at that time and often with the first exhibitions of some of the most significant artists who were working in that day. And I understood that as very particular role, the curator who defines a moment who is in the present looking at artwork and creating for artists and audience the opportunity understand the moment. I also was inspired by Dharthi Miller because she was a pioneer. She stepped into a feel that have been dominated by men and created a role for herself that was so significant and really opened up so much space that it felt to me like there could be a way that in her career. I could find the keys to what I wanted to do. People knew you now as the studio museum in Harlem's director and chief curator what they might not know is that you started there as an intern. That's incredible as well at the time of its founding in nineteen sixty eight the stadium museum was built to celebrate artists who were being excluded from the white dominated or world and of your internship. You said this interning at the stadium museum gave me a sense of my place in museums. How did you first find your way to the studio museum? I found studio museum because in many ways, it's an institution. I always knew my father was born and raised in Harlem, the studio museum was founded in nineteen sixty eight so through my childhood in the seventies. The studio museum existed in was open at a place that I visited with my parents, my parents were deeply invested in New York African American cultural institutional seen so that I understood the studio museum in the context of other institutions like the Schaumburg centre for research in black culture, the national black theatre the negro and samba company the dance theatre of Harlem, Alvin Ailey. I mean, these were the cultural institutions that my parents supported and took my brother, and I to and really in many ways shaped my sense of culture because they positioned black halter at the center of a cultural understanding, so it informed not only my understanding of the studio museum specifically, but also. Oh, it's role and its importance after interning you worked there as a curatorial assistant for year end in nineteen Eighty-eight took a job at the Whitney museum of American art. And you were the institutions first black curator at the time. Did you feel the significance of of this new rule? When I went to the Whitney in nineteen eighty eight. I was actually a curatorial assistant at that moment. So I graduated from college I spent a year at the studio museum is a fellow program that we still have now for recent college graduates, and then I went to the Whitney in nineteen Eighty-eight secure toil. Assistant working for the curator Richard Armstrong who is now the director of the Guggenheim museum and in that role. I worked for Richard on the range of amazing exhibitions he made and got to see close up what it meant to be a curator into work with such a fantastic Curators. I then left the Whitney in nineteen ninety to work for the art historian. Ali Jones who was then running incredibly innovative contemporary art program in southeast queens, the neighborhood where I grew out and working for Kelly for that year year and a half gave me the sense of possibility about contemporary curatorial practice. It was right at the time a job opened up at the Whitney for a director of the Whitney's branch Philip Morris, and so that job coming back to the Whitney ninety one became then my first curatorial role and in that job. I was yes. The first African American curator at the Whitney museum. I understand that you used to be mistaken for your own assistant. And while people will be furious hearing, this you've said, it was actually liberating. And I was wondering if you talk about how that could be liberating. You know, it's something that perhaps could not happen. Now, though, I have to say it has happened now. But in this world, we live in now where we have so much more visual information as a reference point perhaps it wouldn't happen in the way it did. And those. Days pre internet when people would speak to me on the phone for weeks ahead of an appointment. And then I would show up and their sense of who they spoke to on the telephone who would have been this curator at the Whitney. And who I was when I showed up could not be the same person. And what I found was liberating about that is that being so profoundly underestimated gave me a sense of what my own possibility was I never took that as an insult. But yet, I understood that I was always disapproving people sense of limitation. So they idea in that moment that there were certain people who couldn't imagine that a black woman a young woman could be curator at the Whitney. Then when confronted with me as that, and they had to reshuffle their mind to kind of make sense of that it allowed me a sense to show them. What that possibility was and to stand very much. Much in the sense of of who I was. But also, it was liberating because it allowed me to always understand very deeply the responsibility. I had in the position then and continues to occupy. As you said when discussing your early curatorial approach in a Ted talk. I was interested in the idea of why and how I could create a new story a new narrative art history and in new narrative in the world and to do this. I knew that I had to see the way in which artists work understand the artist's studio as a laboratory imagine then reinventing the museum as a think tank and looking at the exhibition as the ultimate white paper asking questions, providing the space to look and to think about answers, they'll do you still retain this philosophy to this day. Is this something that is still very much the way in which you approach your work. It is completely. I would say that the only way in which it's shifted is that at that time. I was speaking of that in relation to curatorial practice and exhibitions and now after twelve years as museum director, I feel the exact same way about museums. Not just exhibitions. But the idea that the institution has to be thought through and rethought and reinvented and reengaged consistently in order to be relevant and important and significant you went on to stay at the Whitney for ten years, curing, a brilliant array of shows the one that really put you on the map in an intense way blackmail representations of masculinity in American art in nineteen ninety four and when launched blackmail, really blew up the show provoked anger from opposite camps conservative. Critics who charged you with abandoning taste in favor of radicalized, politics and African Americans who wanted more uplifting images of black men. And you said this about the experience what I learned from black male is the important space that museums can create for a dialogue with and through art about the issues in our world in the black lives matter era at a time of growing con. Business about how radical identities are constructed and maintained by newsrooms politicians and police forces that show feels prophetic do you think that if you did the show again now it would have a similar kind of response? Do you think it'd be as much anger? I I don't know if I have an answer to that though what I will say is that at the time I made the exhibition. I was as I often am in exhibition making responding to that moment, what has been profoundly important to me is the reckoning that from that moment in nineteen ninety four I could have made that exhibition again almost every year since and be in a moment where those issues are still present in our culture in our society. I think the reaction to the exhibition now would certainly and the one that I would have to make now would be different. And I think it still would provoke anger not perhaps the. Content of the exhibition in the museum. But the anger would be about the issue itself. And that hasn't really changed much at all I found it interesting that you opened the show with Fred Wilson's guarded view, which included four headless black museum guards as mannequins in typical museum guard attire, and I was wondering if that was a non to your experiences with the guard yourself it was, but it was more specifically nod to performance work that Fred Wilson had done in several institutions before blackmail open where he an artist who had worked as many artists as a museum guard. But then as a practicing artists an important conceptual artists dressed as a guard and engaged in museum spaces as a way to look at the ways in which the black male body specific is understood in the culture in those environments. So it was really a nod to Fred's work, but it was also way to ground the exhibition in. Museum. So that here's this museum about black masculinity in contemporary, American art, and the I work you see brings you into a museum contacts with the vision of these four mannequins who are guard. It also was a work that was meant to signal to the audience the actual specificity of the topic at hand you've described this show as contentious controversial and ultimately life changing in your sense of what art could be in. What way it changed me as a curator? It made me understand what I imagined. Theoretically that I always wanted to believe, and that is that art could create the space for important conversations in our culture, but that exhibition in its controversy, but more importantly in the sort of community, it created around the dialogue that the exhibition created really showed me the potential of the space of the museum and the way in which artists could be at the center of our. Debate. I'm curious does the idea for an exhibition begin to take root and develop in your mind? What makes something museum show worthy? I think for me every exhibition has been different in the case of blackmail. It really was a reaction to what was happening in the world in the nineteen Ninety-three by any all just just the year before John Han heart one of the amazing co curator of that exhibition which was led by Lisbeth Sussman and Lisa Phillips, and I and John Han heart worked with Elizabeth on the ninety eight by any, but John Han heart is an amazing film and video media curator. And he included the video of Rodney King being beaten in the ninety three by any a brave Abol choice an important one. But one that of course, was controversial in the moment, and that video that image and the way in which it sparked a whole level of conversation among artists made me start looking both. In the present. And then going back to the sixties to look at the ways in which the blackmail image had been understood by artists as they made work from late sixties to that present. So that exhibition came very much from the inspiration of the thinking of that moment. I also wanted to make an exhibition that looked at race. And I wanted to make an exhibition that understood or positioned a way in which a group of artists of that moment were making conceptual art of outrace. So there were several layers there several artists medics addition whose whole bodies of work inspired the exhibition Glenn ligon the painter out his work. I saw what was really the sense of intellectual armature that the exhibition sat on when I thought about the way in which many artists grapple with the work of Robert Mapplethorpe. It was clear to me it needed to be wrestled with. I was deeply inspired by the work of Gary Simmons and in working with Gary Simmons on exhibitions of his own work. The reference points for his work, which often involves sports hip. Hop music. Put me into pop culture and thinking about that. And how it would come into an exhibition. So that had so many different influences. Your also recognized for nurturing these artists as well. You mentioned Glenn ligon. He's somebody that you've been very involved in in working with to Wiley. What's it take for someone or something to draw your eye? How do you recognize potential and choose who you are interested in in working with usually I understand the beginning of my relationship to any artist comes through my relationship to their work. So it usually begins because there is something in their work that I see end often, I feel that makes me have a. Profound sense of wanting to be in a conversation around that work, if it provokes questions in me, if it creates a sense of confirming what I think, I know or making me not comfortable with what I think I know that away that often I wanna be in conversation with more work by that artists, and that then becomes a process of dialogue and many of the artists, and I've been privileged to work with for many years. It's because it's just been an ongoing conversation and in those ongoing conversations I am able to be in a kind of collaborative relationship with them which can often result in a curatorial project in two thousand after a curatorial stint at the Peter Norton family foundation. You return to the studio museum this time as chief curator and deputy director for exhibitions and programs the first big exhibition that you mounted was free style. Which? Featured Twenty-eight emerging African American artists and in its catalogue. You described the famously described termed the post black era and sought to feature artists who were adamant about not being labeled black artists though, their work with steeped in infect deeply interested in redefining complex issues and nations of blackness. So can you talk a little bit about the origin of the term post plan? And how is it thought of today? Well, the term post black had already been in the culture used by many people to talk about various sociological, political and cultural conditions in the case of the exhibition. Freestyle post black was really a shorthand for post black art. And it was a way to think about this era of artists coming after the nineties after are sort of multicultural moment. But at the studio museum also acknowledging a generation of artists several generations away from the black arts. Movement, the sort of signal true defining moment of mid twentieth century African American art and the black arts movement had an incredible set of sort of intellectual tenants attached to it and for many artists, it was a way in which to define their work within the politics of the moment. The studio museum came out of that our founding is part of the incredible energy that was created. So post black was away to position this generation of artists as fully realizing something that could become beyond that wasn't necessarily about them. Not wanting to label black artists though that labeling often by the mainstream was a limiting and narrowing category. But more importantly, it was a way to open up what was evident in the space of contemporary art making which was this multi generational relooking at. The question of what art do I make how is it attached my identity, how can that be complex and wide and deep at the same time. So it was a term insurance hand that was developed in conversations with Glenn ligon who I talked to about art often. And we talked about the way in which we both were refreshed by young artists who were able to bring so much complexity into this question of identity in their work and looking across those twenty eight artists, you cannot pin a style. So when people ask me if post black is a style, it is not it really wasn't attitude. It's an attitude that allow these artists to dig deep and to claim so many ways of working in the name of their own individual art practice. You said this about the show in the eighties and nineties curator's were in a mode of discovery and exploration. But then that became thank goodness the norm. In many black artists moved to the forefront of our consciousness in. As that didn't have to be explained through a black history month label. There was no longer any need to have all those paragraphs before you got to the work on while you were showing the work, and what this means and Dada pluralism, we are the world hold hands. Combine. And you went on to declare that the artisan freestyle are the beneficiaries of the nineties artists breakthrough. And I think film that in many ways this show, not only re-thought African American art. But all American art in a way that has never been the same. I think my goal was to create a sense of possibility. The truth is that exhibition was also a very personal one for me because I had had this incredible opportunity in the nineties to work with a generation of artists who were truly truly groundbreaking, and when I looked over that decade and by the time I got to the studio museum in that group of artists artists like Lorna Simpson. Karume Williams, Glenn ligon, Gary Simmons, Fred Wilson. You know, we're all at mid career. I also wanted to go back and begin to engage with emerging artists again. But I knew I could not engage with them by taking the lens that I had in the nineties and placing it on the work that was happening. I wanted to start from scratch and had to allow these artists to tell me who they were and what they were making work about. So the exhibition also was about that to create this sense of possibility of. Thinking of what the present was. So that we the studio museum could move forward. You became the head of the museum and the director in two thousand and five after Larry's took SIMS retired in the years since he presided over a thirty percent increase in visitors. You also tweet the museums focus from African American art art by black artists in general and wondering if you can talk a little bit about that distinction. Yes. You know, our mission had read almost our founding that we were museum of African American art and artifacts of the African diaspora and that mission very much echoed, the kind of intellectual space that the museum was founded in the late sixties, and it became very clear in two thousand three two thousand four lower SIMS was Diller director, and we worked together on rewriting the mission to now say that we are a museum of art by artists of. Of African descent, locally, nationally and internationally, and the idea was that we were embracing the idea of global black presence, not simply thinking of Africa as artifacts from the past and African American art as the present, but looking at this idea of an African present and presence all over the world. So that artists of African descent, locally, nationally and internationally gave us that possibility. It gave us the opportunity look back over centuries. But also in the present, but really in. It's simple way. It really meant that we became a museum that could be truly global over the years the F series that began with your first show three style. Continued to spotlight emerging black talent with frequency in two thousand and five flow into those eight four into thousand and twelve and fictions in two thousand seventeen talk about what the series means to you. It feels like a very special series. He's in the overall work that you're producing. Well, now that it's happened many times it's a series, but very famous after freestyle said that if you know everyone else, oh, you do it again. And of course, I said, no. And you know, here we just keep doing it really what it means is that the museum remains committed to showing amazing emerging talent. And it's an excellent fantastic way to do it. But more importantly, and perhaps most significantly for me. It also has become an important curatorial vehicle for emerging curatorial talent to do an F show. As part of our curatorial team is a right of passage is something now that has been curated by a number of curator's who are off at other institutions around this country. And I am very proud of that it allows us always to maintain a relationship to looking at the new so that process of landing somewhere and really seeking out or merging artists and that then means. That's happening all the time. But you know, we closed the museum in January. So fictions was the exhibition the last f show that we closed the museum with and what we're really considering. Now is in our new life in some years from now whether or not we will continue these exhibitions, I can pretty much they we will. But the real question on the table is if they will begin with the letter f well before any of our listeners might be freaking out that the museum is closing permanently. It's just closing because it's being redecorated, and I'll get to that in a minute working with David J but during his administration, President Obama appointed you to the committee for the preservation of the White House, and you served from twenty ten to twenty sixteen in twenty fifteen. You were appointed to the board of the Barack Obama foundation slated to build his presidential library in Chicago. What is this relationship in like for you? Oh, it's been an honor truly to serve on the committee for the preservation of a White House. Understanding the White House as a museum. Understanding that collection of artworks and decorative arts as being so significant to us to serve and be brought on for my expertise in American. Art was incredible. But it was also amazing to witness the ways in which the arts kind of lived in that administration, and then serving on the board of the foundation also equally differently equally an honor as well as the next steps happen as we just talked about at this very moment in time the St. museum proper is currently closed and your new building which looks amazing in the plans is being constructed. The original location of the museum was a rented loft on Fifth Avenue between one hundred and twenty fifth and one hundred twenty six streets and moved to its present location in nineteen eighty two. And in twenty fifteen you hire David J to remake the entire museum ABS actually at one of the. The introductions to the plans up in Harlem couple of months ago and saw you in David present the construction is expected to last through twenty twenty one. So what are you doing? In the meantime, in the meantime, while we are closed we have a set of programs and initiatives under the title in Harlem, which creates for us the opportunity to make exhibition present artist projects and public works in spaces around Harlem, as well as citywide, so we currently have an exhibition of the work of the artist Fairleigh Byas at the Schaumburg centre for research in black culture. We also have a project with Merrin hasn't the sculptor who was a studio museum artisan resident years ago and his in our collection, but to have her now's a Harlem resident create this amazing set of public sculptures and Marcus Garvey park. They'll be up for a year, we have a series of public programs that are happening in spaces. Around the neighborhood, and in some other institutions in the city, we are collaborating with other arts organizations around our education programs. So we're really existing in a mobile fashion. We are continuing to be the stadiums Eum without a building. But in and around the neighborhood. What was the decision making process like in choosing the architect for this project? We set about looking at a range of firms and architectural offices eleven or twelve David emerged early as an architect whose own relationship to artists and arts bases made him uniquely qualified to consider what it would mean to create a new home. You know, our current home was a building that was built in nineteen fourteen as the Kenwood office building. When the studio museum quiet in nineteen seventy nine it was beautifully and really innovative -ly renovated by max bond. And you know that history max such a pioneering. Architect and what he created that. Then really was the catalyst for so much else that happened on one hundred twenty history was very inspiring to David. And so now in thinking about what we could do it has some of the same values that went into the original renovation of this building in the rebuilding. Now. I understand that the museum building itself was once a former Bank. Yes. And I believe that your father Bank there. Yes. When you were growing up in Harlem guests, yes. So the Kenwood office building was built as a Bank. So the design is that it was a Bank at the first and mezzanine level. And there were offices above law offices bail bondsman when you look in the city record juicy all sorts of businesses that were there. My father's insurance office was on the corner of that blog, and he banked in the building. But also knew many of the businesses that were in the upper floors. So that building held a lot of Harlem history for many people. And of course, when it became vacant as so many other buildings in Harlem. Did there wasn't a clarity about the sense of what it's used could be. And that's what was so beautiful for many people about the studio museum moving into that building after it'd been vacant for some time and opening it up as a museum you've said this about the planned redesign what we hope is that it is not only a home for us as a fifty year-old museum doing this work. But an example of this possibility of a kind of radical reimagining of the institutional space, generally that allows for more people groups communities media to have homes to have spaces and to be able to live in them with authority and sustainability, how do you imagine a new building being able to do that? I think it's actually a healthy in itself. Does that you know, we are incredible story when the studio museum was founded in nineteen sixty eight by this incredibly brilliant group of people it was in this very modest rented loft. You know, when people think about museums, they often think of the great castles, and temples of culture, they're often created out of a fortune or a great collection. And the studio museum was formed out of not those kinds of resources, but an incredible amount of cultural capital. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a top down museum. It feels like a bottom up in a lot of ways, and it was about autonomy. It was a group of people saying if other museums are not going to show black artists, they are not going to respect this work. If they are not going to honor this legacy, we will create our own and in doing so and our growth of the fifty years to get to what this new building can be. I think we'll be an example to so many others. But this is possible that the culture. Landscape is not fixed. It can be shifted and change, and we can claim places in it have a somewhat lengthy quote. I wanna read that you've said about the museum sustainability. I'll try to read it rather fast. You say we were founded in a moment in the sixties when lots of organizations and institutions in the visual arts and performing arts were created to present the work of various communities, cultural specificity had a real impact and import in that moment, the demise of many of those institutions had less to do with the validity of what they were presenting or showing and more to do with what we know are the shifts within the cultural sector about what it means to be an institution and the stability that that takes what I think we understand now a country at the brink of being majority people of color is that cultural specificity is in simply about the specific. It is about the culture at large at one level. We see ourselves the studio museum very much a product of the moment. We were. Founded very much a part of that late sixties moment, the culture moment of that of alternative museums. But also, the political moment the movement of resistance, so Thelma how is our current moment in time now being considered by the museum, and how is that work being informed by the political mood of the US feels more important than ever it does. And I feel as if we didn't need a reason to think about why the studio museum was important. We've always known that. We've we've held a lot of sense of ourself as an institution. But now, it feels more important and deeply significant to create institutions that are speaking to. An America that is represented by democracy and diversity and believes an equity, and as an institution, we came out of a moment where that was our founding, and I think we invest continually in what it means to do that work. So two more things that I want to ask you about the first is your personal style. Vogue magazine described your style as a joyful mix of prince colors and nineteen seventies flair that seamlessly mesh with her interplay on proportion and shape. And you've said that the thing you have most akin to a uniform is address noting. I had the best thing ever. Which is I have a husband who's the most amazing, and brilliant fashion designer everything he does comes out of deep well of inspiration and innovation that what he thinks about color pattern all of it. So film, what is it like being married to a fashion designer? You lucky woman. It's fantastic. Grateful all the time. I'm grateful not only because of the clothes themselves. So that spent Hasic, but also because he really is an artist, and I get the experience of living with someone who walks through the world thinking visually, and who is able to so seamlessly put together a whole range of references and a whole range of experiences. And I see how as we live our life all of that comes into what he makes as a designer, but I've always had a love of fashion, and certainly my interest in culture was informed by a deep appreciation for the way in which fashion speaks to culture and the way in which style tells us so much about a particular moment in particular history, as well how much cross pollination do you have in working together? Do you ever collaborate yet? We don't. Liberate so much, but we share so many interests the person who introduced us to each other really symbolic of that we were introduced by Kim has Streeter who is the editor founder of paper magazine. And I knew Kim because Kim is such an incredible voice in the art world, visual, art world's. I'd known her for years in her support of artists and art, but she also was a great great force in the fashion world, and that's how d'oro Newhart so we both had this incredible relationship tour, and that's what made it. So that we ended up meeting each other must be really happy about this. She no she is. And we are very happy. We, you know, got married at the New York City marriage bureau and Kim along with online gone. They were our witnesses thumb on my last question for you is about a, quote, I came across in my research in the Brooklyn rail, you stated curatorial practice is intellectual work weaponized. And I'm wondering if you can elaborate. I think what I meant when I said that has something to do with my understanding of myself as a curator as opposed to an art historian. So that is in thinking about art an artworks and artists that the act of thinking about them writing about them important significant necessary, but putting them into public space taking those ideas and making exhibition as narrative in a public space and engaging with audiences why'd audiences really then allows for something that I think is profoundly powerful. And that is creating space intellectual space emotional space idea, even say spiritual space for us to engage with ourselves and each other. Golden thank you so much for transforming the way, we see the world through art and through our selves, and thank you so much for being designed to thank you for having. Thank he'll they'll golden is the director and chief curator at the media museum in Harlem for more information. You can go to studio museum dot this is the fourteenth year. I've been doing signed banners med like to thank you for listening. And remember we can talk about making a difference. We could make a difference when we can do both. I'm Debbie moment. And look forward to talking with you again soon. For more information about design matters or subscribe your newsletter. Gooda Debbie millman dot com. If you love this podcast, please consider contributing to our drip, Kickstarter community members early access to the podcast transcripts with every interview invitations to live interviews culinary sessions with guests and a brand new annual magazine, you can learn more about this at dot rip slush, Debbie slash millman. That's d dot rip slush Debbie dash millman than if you really like this podcast. Please read a review in the I tune store and linked to the puck cast on social media. Design matters is produced by Curtis FOX productions the show is published exclusively by design observer dot com and recorded that the school of visual arts masters branding program in New York City, the editor in chief of design matters media is accurate Pettit. And the art director is Emily Weiland, generous support for design matters media is provided by adobe XT. And rick. Dot com.
Design Matters with Debbie Millman