2 Episode results for "Nathan Laco"
5 Ways to Learn from Your Competitors and Shortcut Your Marketing Success | Ep. #1378
"Welcome to marketing school. The only podcast that provides daily top level marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs that practice what they preach and live what they teach. Let's start leveling up your marketing knowledge with your instructors. Neil Patel and Eric Su. Hey Margie school listeners. I have an interesting stat for you. Did you know that Walmart improved their conversion rate by two percent for every second that improved their low time in other words website speed helps with conversions in addition to that google uses it to determine where your site ranks in their index so the fastener website loads the higher? You'll rink for that reason. I want to talk to you today. About a company called Dream House dream. Hose powers the web with fast websites and superior customer service brought to you by team of web experts or super committed to your success online. We've worked with them. To a special offer just remarking school listeners. All you have to do is go to dream. Host DOT COM slash marking school to learn more and get your website online today. Welcome to another episode of Marketing School. I'm Eric Su and I'm Neil Patel and today we're GonNa talk about five ways to learn from your competitors and shortcut your marketing success so I'll go with number one. I I talked about this. I believe maybe less two episodes but I do want to bring it up because it's fresh and actually got to play with the tool for the first time today. And so. The tour Spark Torah that's S. P. A. R. K. T. O. R. O. And the reason I sparked Toro is if you think about Chet Holmes Dream one hundred concept which is basically. If I want to promote my book. I'm GonNa go find top one hundred podcast in gaming for example. Okay that's my dream. One hundred for the PODCAST THAT. I'M GONNA find a dream. One hundred four youtube right so this dream one hundred concept was kind of coined by him and then Russell Brunson from click funnels kind of made a dream one hundred four different categories. Now what's beautiful? About Spark Toro is instead of you having to manually find all the influencers all the partners that you might attention WanNa work with you can just use spark twirl and you get five free searches a month and you can just find some key words by the way you can find a bunch of people and from there. You can basically decide okay. I'm going to try to work with these people reach out to these people and you're going to leverage the audience that they already have to help you get to where you WANNA go. That's number one. The second thing that I would do is go look at your competitors and see which one is running a continuing modifying. Their design built with is a website. That tells you if someone's using AB testing software alike optimize VW or hot jar. Crazy or anything like that and what you want to end up doing is seeing what changes are making because almost continue making changes and they're using these softwares that means tracking to make sure that the changes they're making in their design and copy is boosting sales revenue conversions. So I like doing is using way back. Machine Way. Back machine shows me the variations of their pages that they've been using and how their design and copy has evolved over time. And then what I like doing is learning from that. Because if they're using the conversion software you know that the changes that are making tend to be increasing conversions so learned from that and I should give you on what direction you should be going with your business to start getting more sales more conversions faster versus having to do all the learnings that they already did the third one. This seems like a dust. Amen but facebook Ad Library has been great. I mean to be able to see when your competitors are putting up new ads and how long they been running those ads for what type of ad copy they're using chances are if they've been running ads for a very long time there either a stupid or be. They has been working really well right. It's it's was the time it's one or the other and they're probably not number one if they've concept been spending a ton of money and so facebook our library. I like to use it. Not only look a competitor's withdrawn stations that I could potentially swipe because when you're writing copy or when you're writing at any type of advertising you ultimately looking for copy you're looking for some type of structure that you can pull from and then ultimately make it your own number four look one thing that all your competition's doing online and I don't understand. Why people do this people go on. Podcast interviews and talk about their business the revenue. What's causing it to grow failures. They had and they're spilling all their beans like one podcast that I listen to a lot on the enough is leveling up another one Nathan Laco and when you look at these podcast you know? I'm not mentioning Eric's leveling up because he's my Kohl's marketing school. It honestly is good and a lot of my competitors have been on his podcast or people in similar industries. They talk about what's working for them. What's failed and their strategies? And they're spilling their beans and a lot of them do brag. And what's cool about for me as a marketer is I'm able to learn from it and avoid their pitfalls and failures so that way I can grow faster so make sure you search for your competitors and add the word revenue at the end or podcasts at the end. And you'll find that the reveal a lot of articles or podcast episodes breaking down how they're doing on what you can learn from them to grow faster. Yeah Nathan. Lack has podcast Larry's because he forces the revenue out of them and if they don't give the revenue he basically like extrapolates to math which is pretty simple. I usually they're like. Oh yeah you know. It's roughly that anyway. I digress so number five. Last Finale Hillary to my last recommendation so last one was phased out library. But most people don't know that you can use software such as at beat and you can look at what type of ads people running on Google for example Google display network. You can look at how they're spend his trending over time. What their top. Ads are and again as a advertiser as a copywriter. Your job is to have a swipe file like a library of ad copy or adds that you like and then from there you just restructure to whatever you're trying to do because if the ad worked on you then you should be thinking about okay. Why did that work me and how it might potentially work if you basically restructured a little bit and tailored it towards your audience right so that is it for today go to marketing school dot? Io Slash school if you want to get on the waiting list for the education program that we're working on and we'll see you tomorrow. We appreciate you joining us for this session of Marketing School. Be Sure to rate review and subscribe to the show and visit marketing school dot. Io for more resources based on today's topic as well as access to more episodes that will help you find True Marketing Success Tax Marketing School dot ISO until next time class dismissed.
#1712 How Nathan Latka Went from Podcast Nobody to $1m in Sponsorships, 10m Downloads
"Hey there freedom fighters. My name is Andrew Warner. I'm the founder makes her where I interview entrepreneurs about how they built their business shot at a fricking cannon today. I've got waitress energy. We've gotta calm down. That's the freedom fighters. Love it. Joining me as a longtime mixer listener who built and sold the company, and there is an shot out of a cannon. He he recently wrote a book, and I when I get a book from Gessen for some reason, some guest only consent me the books when I get a book, I can't help. But sit in read it, and usually I will speed read it in under an hour and a new quiz me. I get all the data from the book. I know it. I remember this book, I spent two hours reading downstairs. I couldn't put it down. I kept texting Nathan saying I need a little bit more time. The book is called how to be a capitalist without capital, it talks about all the different businesses that he started. I couldn't put it down because of the hustler ideas in there that are the types of things that Nathan, and I would talk about when we were having coffee, but I didn't think he would talk about in his book because it feels a little day class say to say things like yours got a jacket to wear for day. I Instagram here's how he took my shirt off. And especially since Nathan you're cultivating this brand is reputation as an entrepreneur who's. Built a company and sold it invested in companies Andrew tabs still sell. That's the problem. You can be a private equity guy. Pay me a lot of money. You still like a good Abshot? It just a weird mixed these days. I hate to say, I was very impressed that you had ads for some reason a lot of credibility. All right. The guy does put in the war, right? Nathan lanka. You guys know is founder of a company called Heo, which did Facebook page creation among other things he sold it. I thought great deal not turned on wasn't that. Great. He then went on to start a podcast and from the podcast or through the podcast. He started generating ad sales. And then he started buying software companies and growing them, and he took all the data from his business podcast any created this database site called get Laka. So there's a lot I could interview about him about. Here's what I'm going to focus this interview on how did he take his podcast and turn it into an online database called Git Laka, which businesses I guess are paying for access to someone understand both of those two two things the podcast, and then the revenue that comes from it. And then how he turned it into a database that businesses are paying to get access to this interview is sponsored by two phenomenal companies. The first Nathan uses himself. It's called active campaign. Great for Email marketing and the second will help you. If you're looking to get more attention for your business. It's called just reach out. I'll tell you guys about those later. Nathan good to see you here. Yeah. Andrew, it's still. Shocking to that last night. I'm texting going. Hey, I I wrote a book you want to do thing in here. Like, I have a spot tomorrow. And I'm like, well, we have to read the book, and you're like shoot over Mike. Well, my publishers gonna hate me. But here's the PDF. And sure enough this morning text me your speed readings incredible. Yeah. I I listen to heavy metal like the biggest loudest punk music. I can. And then I speed just like they speed through their music. Why don't we talk about hail real quick before we get on cast? You talked about the big offer that you had for Heo. Yep. Which was how much money this actually beautiful thing. I'll show I'll show it to you. That's easier it so you know, of Ryan us, actually, actually I heard his interview on mixture. Gee, that was one of the reasons I knew when I sent this Email to try and sell Heo, I knew to reach out to Ryan because he was kind of in the space. But no, this is what it was this. This is the this is Tober twentieth. Twenty eleven to me, this is the full kind of Ella Y from Ryan, and I contact and you can see the highlighted Mark. Their six million bucks was essentially the acquisition offer and. This was in twenty eleven and you know, this sounds very rosy. But Andrew, you know, kind of what happens afterwards, which I'm sure we'll get into what the reason. Well, that's not what you sold the company for why did you say no to that? But we thinking total ego. I mean, I that was around the same time that Zuckerberg was looking and turning down offers from Microsoft and Yahoo for billions of dollars. I'm going heck like way. No he did that before. And you're saying in the background. Right. Yeah. You're thinking Mark Zuckerberg turned down a billion dollars from Yahoo. Why would I take six point something dollars? Totally like what's historic while. This is now I have my own fund. I'm trying to buy companies when a CEO looks being goes, Nathan, I'm doing ten grand a month and revenue. I want a billion dollars. Like, Mark Zuckerberg? I go like f off right like comeback when you're more rational. So look you have to learn somehow, this is this is a six million dollar learning experience. Mason, oh, we walked away from the offer didn't didn't sell it for six and a half and how much money had you raise for it. We raise a total of two and a half million dollars five hundred Cape kind of angel round from people that you know. Well, I think you know, well, people like five hundred startups crew, David new credit Techstars. And then after that, we raise two million from a Forbes billionaire who was based in Radford or Blacksburg, which was Virginia Tech might my college town. And so they wouldn't have let you take that. And they wouldn't have wanted such a low return, right? They will keep going. No. Well, so let me break this down because I think I think no. One talks about us enough. And I always push people Sassine on my thing to tell tell these stories and they never do. So I have to tell you, right. You're you're getting at the most vulnerable spot, which is no one talks about a a company down. Right. And so what happened was that five hundred thousand dollars raise from angels their their class of stock sat below the two million. We raise later from this particular Forbes billionaire with RJ Kirk, and so what happened was hey, what's going on in twenty seven. We were doing fine. You know, we're we're doing these board debts. You know, actually, I have a I actually put the board deck in here. You guys can see it on page thirty five right there. Andrew you saw too. But this is the deck, and what happened was the company was basically growing really fast one hundred nine a month in revenue, and then it like, basically flatlined right around the time that your friends at wild and involve or envy, true, and buddy media. Never awesome associates based in twenty seven twenty soul for lots of money. And we didn't this was the same time. We got this offer we did. And so we basically flatlined after that. And started basically slowly decreasing year over year revenue basically five or ten percent per month. And what happened was injured like I was super comfortable. I mean, I was I was getting a paycheck because I was the CEO. I set my own pay like one hundred grand a month. I think that's in the bookstore. The screen shot one hundred a month a hundred sorry sorry a year or a year a year. And and thank you. And the reason this is important because I remember in that moment, I was so comfortable that board meeting I was ready to wage war. 'cause I knew the series investor that put into million we're gonna ask me to shut the company down in return money. We had a million bucks in the Bank still. So they're looking at it going, okay? Won't be a total write off. We'll get a million back fifty cents on the dollar in my head. I'm going I wanna keep doing this for ten years as great salary of cash in the Bank, or we're gonna we can I can milk this revenue stream for a long time. And so ultimately what I realized that I was pissed after that board meeting, but one of my very good friends named Pat Matthews now active capital. He always gives it to me realize that Nathan your opportunity cost is too high. When your this young twenty five you're single no kids, you need to free up your time and go do something else. You can drive a lot of growth, and he said, you should do media. And so that will get a podcast story. But ultimately injury only sold the company in the end for about three hundred thousand dollars, which added to the million ish we had in the Bank. So basically had one point four million cash in the Bank, which you are turned all of our investors at the end, you know, whereas tuneup million bucks. You can do the math in terms of dollars or sense. We gave back on the dollar. But I'm saying when you got the six plus million dollar offer from Ryan Alice. Your investors would have told you don't do it aimed for the billion dollar exit to. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Of course. And then at some point the business turn because Facebook wasn't supporting these Facebook pages that you helped create am I right about that too? In extent. Look, I'm not perfect in my post analysis here, but I would credit actually more of our flat lining to we miss the timing consolidation happen, all these other companies exited. We didn't in that time frame. And so I give with all the time like looking to sell like you have to understand a ninety percent your wealth in life. Going to be luck. And we've set yourself to be lucky when you have L Y for six and a half million bucks. You should sell too early. That's how you get wet rich junior that so you had a lot of bravado after that sale knowing that you'd sold too late. How did you pull off that bravado? Well, I mean first off you can see an example of this in my last interview with you. I think that title is Nathan Laco bullshit artist rate, title, one of the. We may search Nathan lack and I get so many people coming reach going Nathan. You know, they meet in person that go Nathan thought, you're like this mean guy, and you're actually big teddy bear in person which side love it. Right expectations are set low. But no, you're right. I mean, I had to do. And I think I did a brilliant job. By the way, of like, spin, spin spin spin trying to the positive out of this thing that I could get my first guest on the podcast, right? And I thought I had to do that to make that happen in truth. I bet you have the courage to do it then. But I bet you if I was just direct honest and said, here's what happened. I still have had the same kind of thing, but nice spun on spun and did you feel like a liar internally at the time. Did you feel like a fraud for doing that? I was always really careful not to give out specific numbers. Right. So I never would say like we sold for forty million dollars or something like that. What I would say like we sold for a price that everyone really liked is true. I mean, this is like pushing that edge, right? Like our investors at that board meeting wanted us to shut down. They were really happy when they finally convinced me to. Return one and a half million bucks. Because they thought they were going to basically be a full right off you want to know what else was affected with you. I called people to get info about you. And they they gave me info. And I do this all the time. What was interesting was. They were very scared of you at the time. The fact that you've gone after a couple of people just showed teeth made everybody scared to even talk to me off the record which I've never revealed anything off the record. And I thought that was very effective. It was shitty for me because I need to know that kind of data, but it was very it was very effective. And I've got that in this interview you have to hit first off injure, you I'm like a wartime CEO you have to defend yourself. Like, if someone comes after you you have to hit them back hard and hit them back hard publicly because it's a message to everyone else in the future who might think about coming after you, and they're gonna go, you know, what I probably should think twice because Nathan's gonna come at me really her, by the way, you're seeing this right now at the present. I don't I don't like the president a lot of ways. But the psychology of managing your enemies is is pretty impressive. And I'm going to say it's not that you are going to be able to ROY. Ruin a lot of other people just like who wants to get distracted by this and get into whatever. Social media firestorm is going to happen like Stelter, by the way, like Michael cells. I don't know. I mean, you remember this. I don't know if you are involved with that. But by the way, he reached out just recently and said Nathan, I love to have you on my pod. This would happen by the with people that you hit back at hard. They actually respect you many times. And you know, Michael, well, I mean, he's not a guy that likes conflict. He's done but him, and I'm we're on the phone just last week. And he is excited me on his podcast. We're gonna he's gonna be on. And it's gonna be a ton of fun. So they're equal. I I'm a fighter. So I love fighting back and I actually enter I love conflict. So these things were natural for me. He is the founder, of course, of of social media examiner. Michael styles ner who did not like fighting with you. Okay. So you still went out there. I thought for a while you're trying to figure out what am I going to do next? And for a while there. You're reading a book a day or something and publishing your notes on that. It was. You trying to develop a media brand. It wasn't until you got into podcasting. The things were were starting to work for you. My right. It depends on how you define work. You know, I had I didn't spend a lot when I was building Heo. So I saved a lot of my money. I mean, I had a lot and I mean relatively speaking as a twenty two twenty three twenty four yard. I mean, I had a lot in savings and about. Yeah. I knew we're gonna ask that. And I don't wanna give all park. I I don't need the exact number. Yeah. Well, look, I think. Thousands over a hundred thousand over hundred okay that gives me sense of it. And the reason the again, I was reading your book and their things in there that we couldn't fully cover in here. But one thing I think that's helpful to talk about. Is you got into real estate kind of early right? Yeah. Why don't we talk about that? Because that contributed to this hundred thousand dollar plus Bank account, and it started with you looking for a place to live when you're in college. And well, how did you come across his place? So that was the bluff what happened was like I had already basically dropped out. But I knew I knew the only way could do deal was to find the owner of a property. So I shave this beautiful beard off to look younger. Put a Regina tech shirt on and went door knocking saying, hey, like, do you have any vacancies I need a place to rent? Oh, this is even after you dropped out of college. Yeah. It was right around the same time by drop daughter, regardless. I was living like I already had a police in downtown blocks lost. I still went door. Knocking and this was it's like a cold Email. You got to have a subject line that gets the attention of person want. So I would not in if they said we don't have any room like to have you lease from us because we're full I would say great can introduce me to own the property. So when you move out in a year or two I could contact them. And then if they said, yes, I do have a space. I said great can interest me the owner. So I can sign a lease. So either way I got what I wanted was the owner. And then, you know, the story contained from the coffee under center background on the net. So I did that for steel, you know, trying to understand why you went to coffee with the owner what we trying to do understand real estate or what one question in understand and make him feel if he had the money from the sale where would he spend it? And I wanted him to talk about it. So that he felt like he already had that thing because humans losing things. So if you make you feel like if you make someone like already have something based off cash, you gave them they're more likely to take your cash. I e he is more likely to sell his property to me. And that's what you wanted you want to be able to buy property. And you talked about in the book, I think it was like four hundred thousand dollars somewhere around there. The first one was three hundred twenty eight thousand dollars. It was an ODI street in in box Virginia, and I did another one on Roanoke street, which was very close. I would say maybe you're too apart. But I thought this tragedy on both. So the first one you go in you by the place, you said, you didn't even I think you said you put down three percent. Rainy, because basically, you can go live in the place and put basically less than even fibers percents three percent down. And then you got roommates, and they rented from you. Exactly. Okay. And then the second one, I think was the one that was a failure. You said where the cash flow is negative. Yeah. The second one of the negative cashless was actually mistake on my part when I bought it had like utilities and kind of expensive. I thought the renters were paying when actually owners were paying so it turns out, and again, I'm going to have my head now because I don't have all the numbers memorize from the book, but that property it sound it was something like I was ending like nineteen hundred or twenty one hundred bucks a month on expenses and rent was only sixteen hundred or something. But when the when the renewals came up we flipped it. I increase the rent the bunch, and I pushed the expenses back on them. And now that property cashews about six hundred seven hundred bucks a month. Okay. And this is part of what contributed to your big savings. The other part was you're saving money from from work from Heo. Right. Was there? Anything else that you are doing at the time Heo was the big one income from hail? Okay. And by the way, people never talk about this, Andrew, it's less sexy decreasing expenses. Like, I lived the nicest apartment in downtown Blacksburg above the theater, and what I did is. I rented out a portion of it even though technically that wasn't legal because I was renting property management company. But I rented to a friend, and I charged her more for the little corner of the more than what my total rent was. So I was living like a king without having to pay for it. Like, it's actually I find way more value in how to keep expenses low because it's more of a puzzle to crack, then you obviously increase your life margin. Right. And that's how you save a lot of money. Yeah. I kind of like this is the weird stuff that made me spend more time with your book, and like your book more. It wasn't like a single flow here. Step one, two three to ten of doing this one thing. It was the mind of Nathan lot gut expressed through lots of. Different things from real estate to software to media to even t shirts, for example. So when you said, I try not to spend a lot of money. It made me think about the section of the book where you talked about your banana Republic strategy talk about that again. This is what keeps me from getting lost in a flow of the book. But also what excites me because for some reason? I just love this type of where do I save money thinking? And where do I make another dollar that combination is why I always used to love going to dinner with Neil Patel? He and his friends would constantly do this. They would be millionaires and still talk about how they save money by telling the guy at the store to Cleese throw in a case, the, you know, so just talk about the banana Republic strategy. I promised guys we're gonna talk about how much he's making with the podcast and then get Logica. I was surprised is bringing a considerable amount of money every month. I want to know how that built from the podcast, but banana Republic, this is the t shirt day. I mean, I think you're can see the local there right banana Republic. This is. That basically retail. They sell it for twenty. I think twenty five maybe thirty bucks. They usually would always be running at twenty five fifty percent discount on that takes fifteen or twenty. But they have a little box next to the register where you bring all your old banana Republic shirts, turn them in. They donate them. They give you another fifteen percent off so them by these in bulk ten twenty chunks that like twelve thirteen bucks a pop anywhere. These everyday reason they're great like the few things they have to travel welcome. I was on the road, and it has to be a carry on. So they have to be tight like, I don't have a big thing. Right. And they have to wash really easily, and they have to feel really good. And and they work with anything like they were cold hot weather. They were all over the place or even in the gym. So like, this is the shirt that I go to and by the way, they stopped selling these shirts. But thank you have a massive inventory. I think it also helps that you're not a long term relationship with someone because I think if someone who saw you day after day in the same shirt, they wanna smack you. But there's another thing that helps which is you dress it up from time to time. Right. It seems like that's part of it. So it's t shirt every day except on days when you go on to one hundred. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some some days I will like I'll splurge when I went to the Oscars and spent twenty grand on a stylist and custom Tom Ford suit. And all this kind of stuff. Do you do that? Well because. The alternative is I make my whole life that way, and I end up like Tyler -pez where you make no money. Why don't you do any once you do none of your life that way? We'll because because it's taste that I want something of it's kind of like why? Curious you ask your interviewer? 'cause you're curious you ask questions, that's like an experience that I wanna understand what does the celebrity think. Like when they're walking on the red carpet. You wanna be that? Well, no, I wanna understand those people. I want the empathy because trick will because if you have more empathy aspect or questions than you accelerate your learning curve, and by the way on them. So you want you don't wanna be them. You want to be more like them the way to understand what to ask them to be more. Like them is to be surrounded by them from time to time, for example, by by going to this Oscar party out in John's thing when I was in negotiating, my we just signed a big TV deal with CNBC. I I understood how that world stinks. Because I did that understand it from going to a party with them where you spend home, not not the whole house even give you a clue about what they're about. Well, because you just pick up little things like you've talked the celebrities at the thing when you're mixing and mingling you talked to investors who are there. I met the founders of block one there at the event. Like, there's a reason there's a recent Tesla's sponsored right of Elton John's Oscar, right like, it's it's a it's a, you know, it's an industry that if you understand can wield a lot of power, and that's interesting, at least understand I the thing that I would say about my life is it's very volatile. I will go hard one way or the I will go. You know, I'm wearing right now. This is maybe thirty dollars total, right. I'm not wearing underwear. The other end his life super luxurious goal in for Dan experience life. I again. Okay. I think that makes sense. Let me take a moment. Talk about my first sponsor them. Get back into the podcast. What happened from there? My first monster is a company called active campaign. I find that a lot of people when it got started with Email marketing, they go for this overly simplistic, Email company that one of the overly simplistic, Email companies that just looks nice feels easy frankly as easy, but it's stupid, and it's stupid because everybody is going to get the exact same Email message from you. It doesn't make it easy for you to start to bucket people based on interest. For example. I'll tell you this Nathan admixture, gee, we've got people who are diehard software entrepreneur, but we also have some people who just wanna create a little marketing agency around chat bots. They all be in the same Email list, but they're tag differently based on what they've done. Now, I'm doing run around the world where I'm going to my goal for twenty nineteen is to run on every continental full marathon. And as I travel the world to interview entrepreneurs in places like Mexico City, where I think I'm gonna go first not everyone gives a rat's ass about my running and Mitra, but a few people are as soon as they click a link they get tagged as being interested in that. So when I do find my neck city my next continental run a marathon the next group of entrepreneurs. In a new place. I can Email just those people you need the right Email marketing offer to do that Nathan. When I told you that active campaign was sponsor, you told me what was your we use active campaign as well. We we were struggling early on the podcast figure out like how to get people in a loop amendment. We tried text message marketing didn't work so well, it it felt like I was invading privacy, sending text every morning active campaign made it easy. The honestly they just had a cheap price. And honestly part of the reason is happening. Andrew, you know, this, you know, back gosh, it must be like four five six seven years ago. This point not to age us what like you are one of the first things I listened to in my dorm before I even knew it onto arch was I was studying architecture. And so when I heard, hey, I use active command premarketing, go to active campaign dot com slash mixer. Gee, that's I went there when I was on my show, and boom before, you know, I'm a customer, I think Pam twenty thirty bucks a month. So it works out nicely. That's it. Well, the are super inexpensive. But what they do is help make that customization that targeting work. Really? Well, if you want to get started with them, you could just go to active campaign dot com slash mixer g with nation. Nathan just talked about hit that try for free, and you just get to experiment with its if you like it or not. And then if you decide to sign up, they'll give you your second month free because they'll know that you're mixture g listener they'll give you two free one on one sessions with their strategy. You can really figure out how to use this in your business and get results with the strategists on the call. And finally if you did start out with a different Email marketing company, and you don't love them though, migrate for free active, campaign dot com slash Mickey art. So you invest something to your quick because if you haven't to us, I always feel like like, I learned about podcast sponsorships through Pat Flynn, John Dumez, and you put up their income reports you didn't. But I kinda got a sense of of how you were doing it. And so I was always like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna get my sponsor machine going for the podcast on mimic, the guys. And then look a competitor. I wanna know how much they're making and I gonna try and. Beat them. I wanna get bigger deals, bigger contracts and drive more value. So they say we pay Nathan lacquer show the most and it was funny. I haven't landed active campaign yet. But, but it's a fun little competition. I run internally with my team. Can you get the guys who are sponsoring Mike competition? Totally like like, hey, ho skaters been paying for Andrew for years. Like understand the ROI. See if you can land hostgator now hostgator, you know, as one of our very large sponsors, you know. So you kind of talked about that in your book. I think you have a whole chapter in how to be a capitalist without capital about copying competition do stuff like that. Like, you'll see who's sponsoring do you? How bad can I copy what's working for him? And maybe even approve it a little bit. The thing that I kept wondering as I read that chapter was. By copying the competition. You get I find a crappier version of the competition's product. And you don't get an understanding of your customers. Why not say I'm going to understand what my customers are going through what they're big pain points. And then find a better way to to solve them the Andrew, and if you started that way, you may not ever end up with active campaign, but you might understand a lot of your people have a problem. I don't know why being influencers the way that you are. And then you go and create a whole new thing that I could never copy that I could never that. I could never think of because I don't have your audience why start with copying instead of starting with problems. How much did you have a sponsor or a podcast sponsor guy that you like pay to you deals, or did you work with agency when I started I did it myself, and then such Gupta started, getting advertisers. I mean, I don't wanna talk. It's a person's. I don't talk about what you actually paid him. But you paid some money over some period of time to learn the podcast lessons by looking at where you are today and copying it. I'm basically. Check for that amount of money for free. Right. Like, why would I go spend that same money and learn those lessons myself now what I will do right is understanding try and understand the best. I can exactly what you or someone else. Doing right now that same thing. And then I will spin it. I will watch how my customers or my listeners react to it. And then make adjustments from there. So you're not saying look, I'm going to just keep copying these other databases like CBS sites, or whatever you're saying. I'm not going to be a second guy who's a fast copier. Instead, I gotta start from something instead of starting from zero in figuring out how to get to that. I version I'm gonna copy them their current version will be my might let's say shit. He prototype. Yes. N I could keep improving, and I think even for get lot. You talked about how you include your first users. You sent them a link, and I love how the Email that you sent down didn't even include a domain name. It included at the IP address. I read about that. Yeah. Right. Like, I don't even have a domain name. Here's what I have in mind. Can you go into? A look at it. And I think I might have a domain name. But the IP address mix it feel like they're the first one. Got it. Like you hit the nail on the head there. Right. Which is like like, for example, when you relaunched mixer g awhile back who the specs to like the wire frame surpass the to the design team. I they wouldn't let me do it because they were designers, and I didn't want to. I said, look, here's what's important to me. Make it easy for people to search for these things that they said forever. Their problem searching for and you're saying look, Andrew I wouldn't have done it that way, I would've I would've started by saying I love insight, go mimic, Pat Flynn site. And once you get that MBC built all then make adjustments and cater to the metric audience. Right. Right. Right. Okay. All right. And you've got a lot of examples in your book about how this I'll show like, I know, they also sponsor your show. But like this is page two sixteen here. I mean, you see where basically say listen go to top. I go to top dot com. I hire developed and go to talk to us mixture Geeta get like cheap prices at Andrews audience. Seriously. I go there and say listen, go to like this one was our go to our dot com. Here's the copy them, and then build that into get you know, and we've made many we look nothing like our today, but let's get into this. Let's let's go slowly into how you got. To get on fascinated by that I you were trying to bunch of different things you said I'm going to try podcast how soon before the podcast cough defined took off. Made you feel like I'm not gonna shed this. This is something I'm gonna continue. So I before I even recorded. The interview said I'm gonna do this for three years. No matter what even if no one listens. Because I think podcasting is a long game has really tricky disciplined because I was spending money to do this. But I had money safe from Heo. So I'm spending on podcasting. Well early on. I mean, I remember, and I'm going memory now. I was probably paying two hundred two hundred eighty bucks episode to produce daily show. Oh, this is before you got the prices down our dot any twenty. I put the whole cost. Now. It's twenty nine bucks episode now. So you're spending that much and you said, okay, I've got to be in it for a long time. But you also at the I remember talking to you at the time in your coming up with these ideas for how to increase listens had by ads and make it work. So you said I'm committing to this. Did you start by copying other people? Did you go in saying here, the the different sites that I'm gonna learn from it, really simple. I said I loved him Farris. I never can sit down. Listen to to interview. I don't have a long podcast. I love John Dumas's fifteen minutes like he's fluffy. It's wishy washy motivation stuff, I want hard numbers. Right. A combination of those things, and you know, I had your angle which was like it's always the entrepreneur the CEO when he kind of combine those three things that I liked and I knew about my own listening habits that made my show. It's fifteen minutes. Very quick. It's aggressive. It's there's conflict. It's all about like what you're a are, which what's your equity splits? And that's it. Yeah. I've I've heard people talk about your podcast. That's the thing that they love that. You just keep pushing for the numbers and beating off on why they don't give you the numbers faster. You do this too, by the way. But like you don't you'll stop. I think once you feel real uncomfortable like real uncomfortable feeling uncomfortable. I just think that so I've heard Carris wish. For example, ask CO? So when are you going to come on? Now, there's no way they could tell her unless they're stupid. They're not going to say, I'm going public next month. The did not stupid. They're not gonna do it. Why she asking that? What we'll shall ask things. Like, so when are you going to get bought, I guess when she was starting out in podcasting. She was doing this. When are you going to sell your company? There's no way they're going to say I'd like to sell it in a year and a half. They just don't. So why push it for no reason, I could tell where I could push it. And where I can't. And when I'm not when I'm not going to get the number is it not idiots. I'm not going to keep pushing until I am not going to keep pushing instead a back away than they see that. I am not looking to trap them. And they'll see how safe this is. And then they'll go into being more open on other things that they wouldn't otherwise I just think it's not my job to make the guests safe or be their friend. I don't mind if they hate me afterwards. And look look for the fresh work CEO just came on my podcast, and I got him to share. They will probably go public in the next year. And you might say, that's really. Stupid. But for all, you know, he's an emanate talks with another buyer by saying that my show at crates leverage for him. Right. Like, by the way, that's one of our most downloaded shows that got a ton of traction. It was a scoop for me. Right. 'cause I 'cause I pushed him pretty hard. So I mean, I would say the reason that you push on these things is because they're really uncomfortable. They're very tough. But if you get some piece of information, there can be really really valuable, okay? So we actually do a lot of that pushing beforehand, and it would mean things like talking to people who work for them talking to their competition and talking and pushing them in private, and so I think that gives me a little bit more. But have you been pseudo Andrew you've been sued from your show? I've been threatened a lot. But I like to think that that's where the Dale Carnegie training comes in and helps me that. I get threatened by people, don't publish. Here's why. And then there have been times when I've been a little too aggressive in response. I don't think that helps me it sounds like I know you've been sued before I can almost guarantee you, I'm the most sued podcast or and I love it because what someone will reveal a number. And then they'll suddenly say, I don't want you to publish it. No, not them their board. The CEO will come on. I will charm the hell out of them. They will reveal so much in fifteen minutes. I release it. We Email the CO. It's live market put on Facebook the board. Here's it cease and desist two days later. I I mean, I should start practice and putting them on the wall a wall of season two sis-. I win every time because. CEO's sign a thing that says I own rights the audio where do you make them sign that thing? It's actually in the us a Cutie scheduling to book things there's there's a disclaimer that says like again, Nathan has rights. He owns the audio bought check here and you can't continue the booking unless they click. Yes. On that button. Yeah. I love acuity for stuff like that. When my other favorite chapters in the book was about systems, even though I'm all about systems, and I don't think that I need to learn anymore. I still love it because a system like that saves you a lot of lot of frustrations like struggled with that chapter a ton. Because I didn't know how to it was very very about to talk about. So I had I had to figure out a framework. So I use that book with the rainbow slinky on it thinking and system letting it's called. I don't know. If you've read that book, I never heard of it highlighted in your book. Yeah. It's like basically says you have inputs outputs you have stock where like the stuff is in in kind of outputs. Right. And so the whole goal for an entrepreneur wants more free time your input start sweat equity. All your time over time you want the inputs. Other people's time other people's money, and that's kind of how you scale. And so I struggled articulating that I thought you did a good job articulating it. And I thought that your idea I'm not gonna do it. But I'm going to do a twist on it the idea of saying when you create a system just go into Starbucks with five dollar gift cards to somebody. Can I top you off by buying another Cup of coffee? All I need to do is just please go through this process and see if you can do it and in the process docu, even have like the username and password. So that the mugging, and then you watch where they get stuck. I don't think I would do it in Starbucks. But I one hundred percent do it with my audience and say, look is there's a new thing that I need a system for anyone wants to learn this who wants to do it just hit me up all do screen share via zoom a watch. You do this Alcott your problems? And then the the one note that you had in there was asking to speak out loud as they're reading doing things that you can see what they're thinking, really helpful. I like that. It's those little things that to me made the book really useful. All right. So I see that you're that you you get your podcast going. I see that you're working in systems. I was. I was wondering at what point. Did you start making money with the podcast serious considerable money? Oh, man win. Did. I my first my first sponsor was fresh books. And. Yeah, actually here it is page nineteen. There's that I sponsor check. Right. So it was like what is that six thousand four hundred dollar check from fresh books, and that is dated. I don't see a date on it. But three eight twenty sixteen Jennifer March six twenty sixteen we launched on August twenty fifteen so that would have been three months in. We made our first six Graham, not bad. All right. And you started reaching out to sponsors who are already sponsoring other podcasts. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So that's I mean, that's what I did. I just went to your page, and I looked at the bottom. I went to Pat Flynn. I went to I went to every show Lewis and just looked at the bottom and what I would lead with though is not sponsored by podcast. I would lead with what your CAC on Google ad words. And then say, that's really good. I can't beat it or that's really high can beat it. And when I asked that question, they go this guy is thinking in terms of actual are why not just like a brand placement in Thai scaled a lot of these relationships from five month. Now, our most expensive sponsors paying twenty grand a month. And they pay all up front for the year. I did that too with fresh books. The and that's how I got them. And that's how I understood what what they were looking for. I saw though I talked to your sponsors. And I think there was a period where they weren't getting the the return that they were expecting. And maybe that's why you then transition to saying I'm not just going to run you in my podcast. I'm also going to while. You're just did this blankets brought out. I was at say I'm looking wool because I'm looking I'm trying to find supporting documents from the question and -ticipant you're going to answer, by the way. My publishers hate the they were so fresh with traded me me when I wrote this because they didn't want me to put screen shots in real stories. But I might listen people need to see what. So you said that. And I think even said your lawyer told you not to talk about I that's why I was a little skeptical. I said come on. Why would the publisher not want evidence? Why would the lawyer? Days. But what would I contact offer? You can't just go to Ryan and say, hey, Ryan, can I talk about this? But he sold it. He's sort of focus that vote things. Now sole decision and Mike who actually owns what? Now, where's the have no idea? So you never went and got clearance. God. No. Because it takes to just put it in if they Sumi grades and other press dry somewhere. It got it got it. Okay. That's fine sponsor like not as concerned about. But I mean, I I haven't screener on the book. I can't find right now. Where does it's h forty five. It's one hundred eighty grand right? That's one hundred eighty grand sponsor, I've done my best like blackout all the important pieces. But like if they see them like Nathan, we don't want people know other sponsors to end that we sponsor to know, we pay you that much money because they're gonna ask for more. I mean, there's all kinds of back. I mean, they're not gonna push back here. I went through that. I actually wanted to get a sense of who it was I figured I could kinda tell by length of something. And I said, what do I care that much? Here's here's the bottom line, though. It seems like you weren't getting the response. The return for them that they were looking for. But you said look I can find another revenue so another way to promote them. And that's when you went into one of your software products and said, look the users. Software could be customers of Mike my sponsors product. I'm gonna link out to them. And that's where the one of the messages of your book comes into play, which is don't focus. You said look if I had focused and just become a podcast or I couldn't have gotten enough money for them. But because I also got into software and the software had a user base that was similar to the podcast. I can find another way of bring them value. So that I could keep the money that I was charging for the advertising, I thought that was a very good case that that made a lot of sense. Okay. So that the business was growing last year twenty eighteen how much revenue to bring in from podcasting podcasting been about four hundred grand something like that four hundred grand not bad. And then their expenses are super small twenty episode how much twenty nine bucks episode in Buxton episode. So here's the thing that stood out for me. I'm spending too fricking hours reading your book before that. I would have spent time researching you the fact that you, and I were friends had a sense of who you were there some backgrounds. I didn't need to do that. My team would spend. Time researching you wonder how do you do a quality program when your calendar looks as packed as it does look on a few pages within this book in I've seen your calendar. You and I needed to schedule something, and you just said, let me do a screen share. And we went through it. And it's like that. It's exactly like what you put in the book. How can you do back to back interviews and zip through your time and still do quality podcast with them? I don't know that I can answer that to be honest with you, Andrew aunt guys. What Andras referencing is? I will Tuesdays and Thursdays record. Basically thirty interviews to back from about seven AM to six to seven PM, and I just get energy from it. Every new CO that comes on like a new board game to play. You have to read the personality make him comfortable in the first thirty seconds. Get joke in right? Maybe talk about a family member something and then start hitting hard with like purvey, partial information. So in dry fun with that. I do know unlike you, and unlike Tim on a lot of very successful podcasters, I do know research because I didn't wanna take things for granted that my audience might naturally be wondering. So I thought of ice stayed naive in Silla start hit record, my brain would be more like the audiences. I don't I don't believe in that approach. But it's working for you. So I'm not putting it down. So that's what it is. You just sit there and you go back to back to back in you. Do your interviews. You publish them for her thousand dollars. And then at some point you said, look, I'm getting all these guys to give you numbers. And I think the first version of what became get Laka which is a site where people can see data financial data directly from SAS entrepreneurs mouths was. I thought it was a spreadsheet. I I don't have it. I can't find it. But I I remember you sent me a spreadsheet thanking saying Android, you think to love it. Yeah. It was it was it was literally I hire to be and said, listen, these interviews, and I ask there's pattern on interviews. Like, I ask what their customer acquisition cost is how much revenue they're doing equity splits payback periods churn. Which is how many customers are losing things like that how much they raise their teams is revenue per employee their salary salaries they created calms release. Common questions. Put in a big spreadsheet. I sent it out to people like you and said, what do you think I end the response was so good from that? Then made a charged version where people pay five hundred bucks to get in a lot of people paid by a lot by fifteen twenty people paid really quickly. And I'm like, wow, I should productized this. So the MVP was basically an excel sheet, and you try to see can I get somebody actually pay for it. And once they did you said I'm going to invest how much money to invest in training the software. Gotcha. I probably put fifty grant in but I- presold like the excel sheet to the point where it was very little of my own capital by the Andrews such a great interviewer because he'll ask you these questions, which he knows I already said in the book and wants to make sure the numbers match. It's very good interviewing. No, I don't I don't I. I I'd want. I wanted to come out of your mouth. I also was a little disappointed that I I I should have known that it was three hundred and twenty thousand dollars that you paid for the first house is still fresh in my mind, but I went with roughly four hundred I said, wait your job is not to say the number. Why would you you should just say and let the guests it? If you want to go into my thinking, that's what it is. I think your audience likes that too because you have a pattern recognition at this point been doing this for so long. I mean, it's valuable to understand also find that the guests like to that I interviewed founder just yesterday. I recorded. I don't wanna go from me and doing the interview I researched. What he was giving me if he's said people liked it. Then I wanted to go look it up if he said that when you search for locksmiths in your city, you're going to come up with me I wanted to see it, and then I came up with his competitor. And then brought up his competitor. And I could see that at times he wasn't super comfortable. But when the interview was done he liked it. I think the people who have substance loved to have like somebody push push them. Give them a little bit more of a challenge in conversation. Which is why you're back here, even though and when you said Andrew can should we do another interview you didn't say Android into another interview. Maybe go a little light. Or I'm you said entered on a punch me again. Like, it was something like that. Because you don't rat's ass. You're not like you're not made out of air and not a balloon. That was pop. Immediately technical technical text was hey. Andrew you wanna do is Nathan lack bullshit artist round two. Is that what it was? Yeah. Yeah. The title of Andrew I interview with me. Second sponsor is a company called just reach out. Check this out. I wonder if if you're gonna use it, or if you're just do this naturally, and you don't need it founder of just reach out realize that there are a lot of entrepreneurs with great products who just can't get publicity for themselves. And yes, they could hire a PR company for ten twenty thousand dollars a month. But they don't have the budget, and they frankly can't justify spending that much when they can't directly return on investment for every press hit. And maybe it takes a little bit of time. He said, you know, I think what I could do is I could kind of get them halfway there. And then make it so that they could cross the finish line on their own. And so that's what he did. There's a program at just reach out where it's basically a do it yourself PR program that he guide you through. And one of my past guests had a piece of software that did robo-call blocking you get those calls Nathan, which one. Yeah. I don't answer my phone anymore. Yeah. Robo killer. We all are getting a bunch of these calls now robo killers kind of a boring not boring name. But it's it's it's a piece of technology. The tar to understand once you stick robo into software. People feel like it's not for me. I'm not into robots it just feels a little confusing. They got a ton of publicity before. I interview them. I looked them up like local newspapers covering them local television, covering them, people nationwide media's covering them, the fact that they will block these robo calls and explain it really well with a cool hook the fact that these two guys could it the software they wanna competition now, they're saving everyone tons of time. Anyway, I asked him what did you come up with this idea? How'd you get this all queued up? And he told me it's my sponsor, and I was holding back. Oh, I think I think we're gonna do sponsor for them sponsorship for them soon. So the companies. Called just reach out. If you're looking to get PR for your business. They will set you up in a way that makes it easy for you. And actually even more effective than getting a PR company because when you the founder someone on your team sends an Email out to a media outlet. They take you so much more seriously when just some Joe Schmoe PR guy contacts them, so they queued up make it easy for you to get that the that PR and to do is go to just reach out dot IO slash mixer, just reach out dot IO slash mixer. And as I understand it here. They're offering a free demo to anyone who wants a sign up. So go to just reach out that I owe slash mixer g hit that book demo button. Let me see if they're using the same software you, and I are Ono icy what they're doing they're doing type form. They wanna make sure that you really that. You really are interested before they waste time. And this is probably the founder Dmitri this guy so hands on bet it's him. It was to be doing these calls demoing the product to our listeners, Andrew they do anything that. So like if people hear what? You told around they might think like, yes swear. But it's just only if you're pitching PR people not for sales. Do they do anything to quantify the PR hit? If it lands. That's a good question. Let me see I think they do. But I'm not one hundred percents. I'm not gonna say that they do. It's a hot space though, you saw this morning trend. Kite in this space just sold to session, which is what right Alison eventually rolled up into sold for two hundred hundred million bucks, Trent what's kite trend. Kite. Eric Huddleston is the founder of the company came on my show. You know, they're doing twenty thirty million bucks. A our revenue they raised forty seven. Basically, it's essentially a PR an AI and kind of outreach. It looks like here. What Dimitri is doing though is significant what this is software. PR software from a trend. Kite. Let me see introducing PR software for the digital world yet. This is like manage your data from it. They're not doing the pitching for you. As far as I understand, right? And it's very expensive. It's an enterprise platelets Dmitri here. This is significantly more for kind of your audience, my audience, kind of founders entrepreneurs that wanna get in for less. Well, I'll tell you what guys go check out trend. Kite dot com than on a sponsor. You're welcome at about. And compare them to just reach out dot IO. Just reach out. We'll do much more the strategy planning and help you send out those messages to influence journalists. So that you can get your PR. And it seems like what Trent does is. They do more of the analysis on it. And. It's like it's not your audience Andrew out to honor brand it is a hot space. I wonder what Dimitri is gonna end up doing with that business. All right. I hope you if you're smart, if you're smart sponsors, you take a one percent cut in every sponsor that you have on your show. Are you doing that we have taken equity insomnia? You have I'm kind of curious about this whole idea of doing equity in exchange for promoting. We know why it's because I've learned this. And this can go into you know, we have a magazine we launched based off the podcast. I've I believe that owning distribution channels are more important than owning the products themselves with your magazine, I wanted just post the picture, and but what the fuck is Nathan doing with the magazine. Dude. Why are you sending me paper magazines? We're in a digital world. Exactly. That's why why because you wanna stand out a little bit. It's the opposite. Because you have reactions like that and this reaction's going to drive a bunch more sales on the magazine, it's a free magazine either. By the way, it's like every month. I go into my into my books, and I see we've got like what the hell we set in spending seven bucks on have you ever spent seven bucks on a magazine before every month. I mean, probably that's probably the most expensive magazine in history. You want to know something I also don't even remember when I bought it. I signed up for this. It might have just been an Email from you saying Andrew trying something, and I don't even remember giving my credit card what kind of magic pulling will you stripe and click funnel. So you probably went through that kind of funnel. You know, basically the way I got this idea, by the way was listening to Nathan channel founder on your on your podcast many times. But I think he had a massive opening in that he was only you he only really had a digital component at the time. And then his modernization strategy now is much more like online courses, which I have no patience for a lot of time to create content every month. So I said magazine weight, but the idea behind launching a magazine is I'm gonna get you something in your hands. That makes you say what the hell? It's also though kind of like when you go and okay, okay. My magazine is your tequila, right? When you when people come visit you and they see like bottled ski on your desk. It's like a talking point. And then you have like your I don't know if you do scotch tequila, but you're like we've known each other for years. Sorry, Scott, even broad Scott your place to do your thing. But you're such a non drinker that you will always call. It doesn't really matter different. But you're saying, yeah, exactly. But what you're saying? Is that scotch is? It's a tangible experience that you can't get when you're just signing up to somebody something online, and that's what you're creating a tangible experience, but you're charging for it. And it is an excuse for people to talk about me and my data when I'm not around. Okay. And it costs you how much you talked about this. You sent out an Email. Here's how much I'm paying this together. People want it's not that expensive to put magazine together. Well, so, you know, you pay a designer you're pay your writers, you do the data. Basically a lot of a lot of the magazine. No is essentially edited transcriptions from the podcast where I have a mind, and then we have these massive charts where we put off like all the AARP capture an evaluation data from the company. So it's basically like a physical excel sheet, but it costs me it costs me for a US person. Like you, for example, you probably cost me all in fully delivered something like three dollars and fifty cents a month something like that. And then overall to print that how much is it? Well, if to print thousand of these you're gonna pay. Gosh. Roughly, we're talking just a few thousand dollars under five. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're talking. That's the thing. That was surprising to me. Because it's such a unique thing I didn't have a sense of what it would cost. And by the way, it's an also a place to expand our PU with my podcast sponsors. I say we have a magazine. Now, it's the only magazine for B two B sassy. Do you want placement? It's not cheap. And you're going to sell that to them. In addition to got it. I already have a relationship, which you know, is the hardest part. And so coming back and saying I've got this new thing. Would you spend a little bit extra? I think it was you're talking to your book about land and expand that you wanna go in there. And then you just want to expand your attention span with me and others. But this is not going to be a big money maker that magazine it can be huge. Because these are these are people paying four five six grand a month for a magazine place on top of five six seven grand a month for podcasts. Then you launch the Facebook show, which people are playing branded content for seven eight grandmother that gets me as I I never read a paper magazine. And maybe it's just weirdly me that use. Send me a book. I just got a book as a as a gift from a friend. I don't know where the hell it is. I'm gonna buy his digital version. Anyway, maybe that's it that I don't relate because I don't read paper anymore regional. And so for people who read paper someone finally understood them in a sent them something that they could that stand out in their lives is that a little bit. But also like a lot of the people buying this. It's private equity firms VC firms and it sits on their desk. So when Andriessen Horwitz you're walking their Menlo Park thing, and you see lack magazine on our conference table the beginning on going. What is his lack thing? I mean, I can't pay for that. It's like it's like the Trojan horse strategy. Okay. I love that you call. It. Lot got to like you love yourself. Totally nobody nobody loves Nathan lack like Nathan lack. The site is lot. It's a magazine. Okay. So you had this spreadsheet you say. Howler already doing database. Yes, insights is doing this matter market's doing this. Here's what I want. I want basically to hire someone from top towel to knock it off in my like with my direction, they go and create a first version cost you how much credit I version of this day a couple two three grand. Yeah. It wasn't great. I I remember going in it. It was a little bit buggy. But it it's like what the fuck. This guy's now taking his content from his podcast and making something really useful out of it. The example, you gave in your book was if you're making purses, and you take the extra leather from the person, and you make keychains out of it. You're basically making keychains, right? So other status all mill sawdust out of a sawmill great. So you had that. And then you started adding to it. And I asked you where you going with this. Then you said VC's are gonna pay in my experience with BC's is they're the cheapest guys on the planet, except when it comes to their own care and feeding they're not paying for data. They just get some the I dunno some intern to go in pulled his data for them. I think you're wrong VC's will pay. Lot of money not for themselves, but to hurt their competitors. So hurt other VC firms that they don't want deal flow to Goto. So one of the ways I sell my database is there's a base fee of start off to grandmas now ten grand a month, and you pay extra per month based on how many competitors you want me to block from signing up to the full database that entries in might sign up and say, I'm gonna pay an extra three grand month to never take Kleiner another three grand month to never take. You know, these other ones, and you're basically, you're charging based off them. It's more defensive than it is active. Okay. All right. And so how much money you're making with Lakha the website, sixty seventy grand a month at this point a month. From how many customers about six to seven eight ten people paying over ten thousand to get access to this and other people from getting basic people. I mean, I say that, but these are people that are like adventure debt firms where if they get my deal if they get CEO's coming through my show. The database only show is publicly if you get like dot com right now your audience will see about five percent of the database for free. The other ninety five percent. His remember, I'm being a HAMAs that just happened to me. I just scrolled past the first against this before I scrolled past the first five or so and it immediately took me to a page. It said you wanna see everything pay and cleric pricing. Got it. You'll see the CEO plan is to grand for the year. But the investor plan it's an Email to me either news acute again or call and I sell them ended ten twenty grand a month of plan. I actually don't even see the pricing on this website. I feel like also what you're doing is a little bit. You're you're kind of copying. Indie. Hackers in the sense at Indy. Hackers pulled some of this data together. And they also do like a like a Reddit style. They have in aby they assess Cortlandt and Channing have Bill in my opinion. What may be the most beautiful sites for like, these kind of small startups get going now many times in fact, you can see you can actually probably pick up some of their design on our side. I mean, we have totally ripped off things that we really like about what they're doing. And I I talked to China. They can't really monetize because they are incentivized by stripe to just get free traffic. I mean, I asked him. I said is it bug you build a real business on this? Because you have this pig Bauer house behind you. And he's like know, whatever. But no, we I mean, that's exactly what we're doing. We're making people pay fracture data. Okay. All right. And it's the extra data. And so when you're when you're selling gimme like a couple of techniques that work for you. When somebody schedules a call with you on it's on you to close the sale. Yeah. Hey, Andrew, you are at jam I- equity. You're an associate every Monday morning, and you have to bring forty of the partners meeting your current spending your time trying to set up calls and cold emails. Listen, I'm already getting the founders on my show. I interview eighty of them every single week. I only published one a day. So I've done almost three thousand interviews only like a thousand are published and by the way, you don't have time to listen every one of them wanting just download my database with every air are CAC turn revenue tag, the back to the voice saying it that way you look better at your partners meeting. Okay. All right. And then you're closing them on the sale yet. But what about the fact that by the time, they're with you? They're kind of known already they're not. They're not know, they're nuts thing. There's a lot of episodes. I have see the podcast now isn't about the podcast. It's an excuse to talk to every private B to B SAS founder. My response in our cold Email is like way higher than an associate at AVI see for our own investment banking from private publicity. Exactly my pitches come on exposure their pitches. Hey, you want money? You know, can we invest get on a call our associate which everyone ignores. So I mean, it's working very effectively. There's a lot of data thousands of interviews that one about the fact that it's a little bit out of date, then some looking funnel envy. Real time. They get real time. So people who pay on their delegate their data real time incident night. So they're not paying necessarily for the old database of the old stuff. They're getting there. They want the latest stuff that you're of indie new companies every single week. I'm basically like four analysts in one if you pay an analyst seven grand month, plus a deal commission, you can do the mass. And you're not updating not updating your not publishing that many. You'll publishing today, but you're recording tons correct so bunch don't even get published. None a bunch don't even go out on the podcast or on the website only to paying customers. God it. Got it. So there's some people that you're talking to just so you could fulfill the data for the private members will. Yeah. And they see is get mad because my acuity scheduling follow after interviews done is. Hey, you're go live date is February third twenty twenty. And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, well, listen if you wanna get released earlier, yes, you can introduce me to three other BBC SEO's. So that's how I'm able to every sassy on with and looking like a champ without having begged them because they're friends when I was wondering where you were getting good guess, I thought you had some kind of system for doing that. I like your follow up Email. Also that says not promoted, but who on your team promotes promotes things for you tonight. You've got them referring it actually does you've got a screen shot in the book. I do like the screen shots in the book you on like you do like those. Yeah. It doesn't chop it up. Too much. No, not at all not at all. Because I thought it was relevant a lot of times when their images in books. It's just a distraction. But this is this is really useful. Especially since it's in the book. I don't like when when books gold fashioned limited to her or linked to the website. It's it's definitely it's really well done. You had hedged you have Greg essentials Amman or the folks that did like the one thing. No, okay. Well, like a lot of authors on the publishers want books that are timeless meaning they could be bought today thirty years and was wondering about that. There are a lot of the things that make it helpful or the things that are not gonna make it timeless like you say to go into slack groups. And then here this lack groups that I like, and like that this is published it's going to be it's going to be still actionable and really useful. But three years from now may not be. I love it like your audience know, this this book is not timeless. It's urgent every I'm people like Andrew the reason. It's every time people make real money in life. They get ahead of a trend. So by nature. I or who reads this book will get the most value the second a little less your audience right now. Depend on when he released the release dates March fourth March fifth go to Amazon right now. Grab it. Right. Because it's not timeless. Is it presell on it? I don't want to like you can pre sell. Get I highly recommend this book. I do think it's useful. I think it's useful. In the way. That Gary truck frustrates me. Gary truck will say to you you should be publishing a bunch of content. How business that you figure? It out you work your food. How much is take a second. If there's a service that you a second. If there's a way that you explain it to let's say, okay, you don't use services anymore because you gotta team just take like five seconds. And tell me how you communicate to someone on your team to create content for you when you're busy. Just don't tell me to do it. Tell me how to do it. And you're the opposite. You're like, here's a big picture. Now, I'm gonna go super detail and tell you how to do it even if I'm kind of fucking over somebody sponsors like I saw that you were talking about what are your sponsors? But then you said you're a few other people who are use for anyone wants to go. Check it out. The book is called way. It's how to be a capitalist without capital. I get that. Right. You got on that. If I could actually remember the title of the book than it's a then it's one that especially like go grab it right now. And I want to. To also check out get Laka dot com. I don't really to be honest with you. I don't check it that much. But I think that we as a team needs to start using that and other tools to find who are looking for for some fifty though Andrew I really don't it. Absolutely. Is I'll tell you why it is. I think we are so lazy as a company right now in in when not lazy to company releasing one place. We get hit on by so many people to do interview. So it's so easy. Find guests that we don't do research outside of our current ecosystem. Which is why I'm going to go to Mexico and go to all these other continents and actually go an interview entrepreneurs because Mexican entrepeneurship African coming to me I'm gonna go to so there's that. But I also think we should be doing going to databases like yours and finding those hidden gem entrepreneurs who have interesting stories who we wouldn't find otherwise because they're too busy working and Andrew the number one request. I get from my listeners, and you skipped over so many important questions, and I say I will never go longer than fifteen minutes. So that is a perfect opportunity to go in and say, right. You said. This this this now tell me how you did it. How right. I do. Love the details of it. Right. And the book go get it every bookstore guys. Let me know what you think of it, really. This is one of the few that I knew I was gonna like yours, actually, I just still surprised by how much I liked it. The other one you could've you could've by that. You know me. I'm like a sales guy always marketing, you could have actually hated it could have been hell for you. So you have to tell you would've loved it. If I told you that I hated it. I think you've of the the ball busting about it. I think it would have made for interesting conversation. No, I liked it for the reasons that I just expressed you've really clear about what you did. I liked it. It was kinda verse in what you were doing. It. Was it went from everything from what you did to be influenced with ten thousand Instagram followers. Didn't know influence over ten thousand rose Roy's, it's crazy. I've gotten so much. Frees up the Rolls Royce, the four thousand five hundred Balmain jacket. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And so I like that combined with real estate for some reason the whole thing absolutely worked, and for me someone who always thinks that everything is like boche until I research it had all those shots. Go guys. Get. Check out the book, and frankly, let me know what you thought of it. And Secondly, I wanna thank my sponsors made. This interview happened. The first is Email marketing done right, go to active campaign dot com slash mixer. And if you want to get a bliss ity for yourself, really, you should be talking to this guy Dimitry helped so much frigging guy is he is one of those guys who's a giver, which makes me guilty. I don't like working with givers because I get to guilty. I like paying for stuff. So when we were trying to figure out content, the guys spent hours with us, you actually think you've been taught him he came to San Francisco on I were there when that was him. Starbucks shaved heads. I asked him a question. Can you help me the fucking guy spending all breakfast, helping me out, and it's nice. I should love him in my how can how can I I didn't know that this site has come like way far forward from that that was like two years ago. Yeah. It's just reach out dot IO slash mixer, you go check him out and Nathan we're gonna have you back on by ruin.