16 Burst results for "Nandini Jami"

"nandini jammi" Discussed on WLS-AM 890

WLS-AM 890

02:09 min | 3 months ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on WLS-AM 890

"The chief of the village of idiots the captain the oligarch of the dumb a woman named nandini jami who is just spends her whole life in a basement somewhere I don't know what she's doing if she's paying rent pays mom or dad I don't know She spends her whole life canceling people from her Twitter account So as I've told her often I beg her to boycott my show and everything every single time because my entire life's about fighting these people back and I had nothing more I like to do than expose these idiots for the communists they really are So nandini has decided to pick a fight with Andy no a site He was associated with the post millennial Andy know who happens to be an Asian gay liberal by the way but AMD know has taken upon himself to expose antifa And of course nandini supports antifa obviously doesn't like that So it's getting most of his psychic hands I don't know if you saw this story but nandini's gone after his sight to post millennial Again so let me just send a warning to the cancelers out there Turn up your radios and listen real good This is for everyone out there I've got a radio show in over 300 stations I've got the second most popular conservative podcast in the country Self praise thinks that's not a brag That's a simple fact Read it and weep Got a show on a cable news channel and one of the most popular Facebook pages around It is asymmetric warfare Bandini has a small infinitesimal following So I'm going to tell you right now I'm watching everything she does Every company she reaches out to that cooperates with nandini and engages in communist tactics I have a microphone and a megaphone a thousand times if not more larger than hers For every company that cooperates like that glasses company RV Parker that caved That caved I will expose you and I will make it my life's work to make sure working with nandini becomes so painful that anyone who even responds to one of her tweets will have to think about this show first

Dan Bongino Has a New Warning For Companies That Work With Nandini Jammi

The Dan Bongino Show

02:09 min | 3 months ago

Dan Bongino Has a New Warning For Companies That Work With Nandini Jammi

"The chief of the village of idiots the captain the oligarch of the dumb a woman named nandini jami who is just spends her whole life in a basement somewhere I don't know what she's doing if she's paying rent pays mom or dad I don't know She spends her whole life canceling people from her Twitter account So as I've told her often I beg her to boycott my show and everything every single time because my entire life's about fighting these people back and I had nothing more I like to do than expose these idiots for the communists they really are So nandini has decided to pick a fight with Andy no a site He was associated with the post millennial Andy know who happens to be an Asian gay liberal by the way but AMD know has taken upon himself to expose antifa And of course nandini supports antifa obviously doesn't like that So it's getting most of his psychic hands I don't know if you saw this story but nandini's gone after his sight to post millennial Again so let me just send a warning to the cancelers out there Turn up your radios and listen real good This is for everyone out there I've got a radio show in over 300 stations I've got the second most popular conservative podcast in the country Self praise thinks that's not a brag That's a simple fact Read it and weep Got a show on a cable news channel and one of the most popular Facebook pages around It is asymmetric warfare Bandini has a small infinitesimal following So I'm going to tell you right now I'm watching everything she does Every company she reaches out to that cooperates with nandini and engages in communist tactics I have a microphone and a megaphone a thousand times if not more larger than hers For every company that cooperates like that glasses company RV Parker that caved That caved I will expose you and I will make it my life's work to make sure working with nandini becomes so painful that anyone who even responds to one of her tweets will have to think about this show first

Nandini Nandini Jami Antifa Andy AMD Twitter Facebook Parker
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

03:19 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Absolutely it is number one first and foremost to be aware and second to start thinking up a plan how going to handle this? That come up at our company. You can't afford as a business to wait for days or weeks to come up with an answer to this, you know social media moves fast. So, sitting around waiting around trying to figure out, what's you know what you WanNa? Do waiting for it to go away I. Think is one of the worst things you can do. The best thing to do is just have have a plan already in place. No, who you on your platform, you don't want on your platform and be able to just come out strong and say no. This is not what we stand for. This is not what we built this business for. You know we're GONNA. Take off. It's really as simple as that. Nanny. It's been sorry. Lovely having you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having. Well. There's a lot to think about their. Products represented in the world and how we react will find something contrary to our values on the platform. It reminds me of ratio Even when she was talking about the Black Mirror episode, and I realized that we have never taught at least not publicly about us. We have this focused. Yeah, that's a good show. Okay, let's jump into it so when we started, we committed together to. To a couple of things we have a commitment to diversity you know. We wanted to make sure that we had a good mix of voices or wasn't a monoculture, and then gender parody, but also people from outside the US and the UK and different levels of their career, and we're doing pretty good on that. You reminded me that we're right about fifty percent on gender right now. But still a bit heavy on US and UK voices, but next week guest will help on that front and there's still some work for us to do in getting people. In their careers guests, so if you've done a talk at your local bronner tank, or read the great blog post or seen one from someone else. We WanNA. Know we've got a link for guest. Suggestions on our twitter bio where MT P. Pod. It feels like we're doing well on the prince, which was to keep the conversations accessible to everyone regardless of level, and we'd love to know what else you want to learn about so please give us a shout I'm will plan episodes around the topics. You suggest the`mixed. Genuinely thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks that kind enough to send us some. Courage man now and then this poll. Cost is for you, so let us know if we can do something different to make it better. Yes, we love you. People have a great week and see you next time like subscribe and I can't believe he's making me say this. If you're feeling funky than write us a review, it's a Cliche, but it really does make a difference. me, Lily Smith and be rabies over emily takes is our producer and League Smith is editor. Our theme music is from Humber based band POW. That's PA you..

US producer UK twitter bronner MT P. Pod Lily Smith League Smith editor
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

03:23 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"And see what they are actually using. Using and highlight that yeah, and let the company's no and frankly public about it because you know if it wasn't for groups, like is and for individuals that are during this work. People wouldn't know and again. Businesses aren't interested in acting, so we try to keep this as public as possible because we also want other platforms smaller platforms to be thinking about this as well. We want this to be on their radar in ways that it hasn't been for. Will has been on everyone's radar, but Y-, facebook and Google haven't responded. It's almost a problem that's that's so out of control. You'd have to go all the way back to square one to to start. Taking care of it one thing that really upsets me is to see the enormity of what we're dealing with. There's a journalist Carlos Maza. He is A. He was a journalist box on make explainer videos kind of like explaining current event issues and things like that, and he announced on twitter back in. June saying that ever since he took on this job, he's been bleeding harassed online by a guy on Youtube Steven, crowder and Steven crowder would make these like homophobic racist ethnic. Slurs against him and he would end up being you know seeing a wall of. Harassment hatred on his instagram and twitter profiles like on a daily basis and he he brought attention to this and said you know. Youtube has a acceptable use policy dot should ban the sky from having channel, but instead he's being monetize. He's being amplified by this platform and this thing went viral. It was during pride months. You know and Youtube which had invested I. Don't know how much money and how much effort into. Changing everything to rainbows on all their social media and Sponsoring all these pride events in whatever they were faced with a very very essential problem like a very basic question. Are we going to continue allowing this gay guy to be harassed. Just for being gay like that should be an easy answer right now. Take Down, but they didn't. They couldn't even come up with a and Sir they? They went back on it like twice, and then they came back, and they were facing a ton of PR pressure, and the came back, and he said okay. We're going to keep it up, but we're. We're going to D- monetize it. Okay. We're not GONNA make any money off of Steven. crowder Steven crowder's not gonNA make any money off of you to account We're not making money off video, but it turns out that Steven crowder doesn't make his money on Youtube. He makes the bulk of his money. Selling merch got. March is sold by shot defy. On one of the teachers he was selling was Carlos. Maza is a F- word. T shirt and shop is taking a cut of it. He's taking a cut of it I. Mean Look at this system that's at play. Yeah! Yeah, and that got sure has come down now shop if I won't sell it anymore, so. Today took it down, but if you Google and I did also for my presentation. I discovered a lot just doing research for it. If you Google Carlos Maza t-shirt, you'll have dozens of sellers selling that exact t shirt. Google takes of it. You must have the weirdest search history ideal..

Steven crowder Carlos Maza Youtube Google twitter Steven. crowder facebook Harassment instagram
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

01:51 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Any kind of support hate greets Baio platform I mean these guys are extremely a persistent. There's a reason they keep coming back to platforms like paypal in Stripe. All it was create a new. Account and A. Back in and as far as Pale knows you know I, think the KKK under their sort of like purpose they're you know what they do with that little feel that says you know what our businesses is. What I am who I am. was donation blessing for the 'cause. Like I I've Seen I. Think in Alex Jones site that has a paypal link to it saying I provide web design services like they keep coming back and they know how to play this dumb. Because right now. The system wants wants them in there. It's easier to keep them in there. It's very very difficult to moderate at sort of unlimited at scale system, so it's easier for everyone involved to just let a group of volunteers do that work for them that you that's where we're at right now. And that's what I would like to see change because at the very least I wanNA. What I WANNA do is. Is You know. Push the problem back to brands. Batch attack platforms that they take their own business problem seriously so that we don't have to for them, yeah. And, it's interesting as well because his with social media in a you can crowd socio editorialize Asian of the of the platform. If you like with people flagging up inappropriate content, but if you're not that way inclined, you're not GonNa Click on something, which seems offensive to discover what tools they using. And how can I highlight this, but denies phase. This is a message now for if you see something offensive, click on it.

Alex Jones
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

02:53 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Well I. has done a fantastic job. They. They know what their product is about. They know what they want. Their users to be doing on their platform. And they know what they don't want their. They know what they don't want to be known for, and they've been very proactive in taking down anti vaccine misinformation, some like medical information that kind of stuff if had not acted, could spread very quickly on their platform in for them. It was a decision That's not what we want people to come here. Here for that's not what pinterest was built for so from that perspective with that clarity that vision. They were able to make the decision to take that stuff down the actually I should be clear. They haven't taken it down. You can still pin it. It just won't be included in their algorithms, so they'll never spread byerly the way that other information could. Is this something that from. Someone who uses a business model canvas and things like that? We spend a Lotta time defining proactively who our target market is and things that is it a matter of also proactively defining the anti patterns who you don't want to what kind of content you don't want. Yeah. I think that there is a space being created for that now. I can't say I know exactly how yet I think for the first time businesses that have things like mission statements and values statements which you know, we just throw up on their website and forgot about they're going to have to start. Pulling it out again and looking at it and really deciding whether they're going to stand by that because groups like us, we come around and we say you know I'd go to their websites. And I look at their value statements, and that's what we use when we. Talk to businesses. We hold up the mirror to them. We say you talk about. Here's your code of conduct. You claim to be integrity your equality. You know like you're. You're very strong anti harassment policy. Why would you be funding or monetize ing or enabling a user like this or an individual like this? When it's so clear, this is what they're doing. If it's not okay in your business within your business internally how you okay with enabling it externally in the world, and they're going to have to start revisiting that stuff because that's again. That's sort of like our ammo not to give away too much, but. But up to what we that's what we do if it's. It's a stuff that you've been saying that you've been using and your marketing talking about like you know, this is what makes our companies special emerges putting up a mirror to your own values and asking you okay then. Go ahead and stand for it. Here's your opportunity. It seems like there's an opportunity half full unit as this whole trend with no customer products, so yeah, perhaps there's an opportunity for kind of know your customer platform, which enables your business to automatically wipeout..

byerly pinterest harassment
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

02:14 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Allow on our platform, who were not allowing our platform? There's no book for this again I. Don't have an answer I. Don't WanNa tell you what to do. I shouldn't tell you what to do. It's not my business. You need to be able to looked to your own values. To what kind of brand do you want to build to? Decide. WHO GETS TO USE Your Your Business? What you're what you want your business to be known for, and then make your decision just as an example, a bumble is a dating APP that has a very very clear sense of its values. Those values include integrity equality there the are feminist after the way that they have marketed themselves the way that they want to be perceived in the world. This is how they get customers, not customers users. Platform and. Twice now it's happened that users have flagged up once it was George Zimmerman the guy who killed Trayvon Martin. And and got acquitted so technically. I don't know but George Zimmerman and Jack Pacific. He's a white nationalist like all right cool and both times when they were flagged up, bumble acted incredibly fast and took him down. Took those accounts down. They said you know these accounts did these type of people don't belong on our platform indicates of George Zimmerman. It was not only trayvon Martin, but he also has a history of domestic violence. It doesn't make sense for them to have people who are like obviously publicly known for domestic violence to be on their platform. That's not what their platform stands for. What they're doing is protecting your brand so that you know people especially women, their core group user group continues to use their product. This is this is a business decision. So we talk a lot of Improv that you manage the entire user experience from from end to end, but a lot of times people are working only with DEV team with designer copywriter, maybe not necessarily working with marketing with support. They don't see this whole picture. Who else besides bumble who else is potentially a good example of a company that seems to to get it and is managing the experience.

George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin Jack Pacific bumble
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

02:46 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"To it and enforce it. Is that the the way to go about it? Yeah, you know I. I, really don't believe that businesses who respond to morals and ethics. I wish I could say they do but. But they respond a lot more quickly to liability to risk the ability, and and that's what it's become so with wayfair that turned into a was at its root, a moral issue, but where it became a business risk was when they couldn't justify with their employees. Employees were not okay with their employees said we will not build it. We will not sell it. Turned into an embarrassment for that company and they didn't realize. Is that you know? Employees are consumers as well and they realized that they did have power that company can't go on without its employees, and as a result, even if you as a business leader, don't make these decisions. Your employees are GonNa sort of make that decision for you. Just taking it back to the product manages. FEM Put people even. Is probably not just the manages the wanting to make sure that that business `having Marley well aside from influencing acceptable use policies and having good ones. Hopefully morally except for ones, is there anything else that we can do in our politics that prevents that entire right-wing extremists and other extremists from magnetising from oems? This is a really really tough question. You don't tech was built on this idea that we build our products to scale, so we work really hard to get people to click the. Register. Start a new trial. The common customer whatever like that's what we live and die by intact so right now the way that the system is built is designed by default to benefit these big groups and organizations. It's GonNa. Take I think a real rocketing with what we've created. It's going to choir us to step back and think about. Do we even know who were doing business with? Because we've come to a point where for example, pay pal doesn't actually know who's on its platform, unless someone like me or I know just some random person on the internet informs them for months now that for months you, the kick or a white supremacist group or a Nazi group has been using. Using your product so. It's GonNa take I think a complete retooling, maybe a philosophical. RIGHI matching of how we're going to do business in the future, and how we're going to make sure they don't get on in the first place, but it's also going to be like we have to sit down and make subjective decisions on who were going to.

Marley
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

03:50 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"MVP to roll in the course. So. What's your advice for? Product manages that working in companies that are currently supporting us these these hate groups yet. This is a great question I think product managers are in a unique position. It's a leadership position where they have the opportunity and I think the responsibility to bring these issues up at their companies One thing in particular that I encourage folks in intact ought to look at to think about is their acceptable use policies, who is being allowed to use their platform, and who shouldn't be allowed to use their platform, and that is not a personal thing that and it shouldn't be. A personal decision should not be up to on how you feel about things personally. That's that's not a healthy way to make decisions for a business the first thing that business should be looking at is their values their what their business was founded on for a lot of businesses. This is this is integrity equality. This is the stuff that you put on your mission statement on your about as page like it's stare in public, so you have those written down already. Why not abide by them? One way of thinking about it is if this user or this group, or whatever is behaving in a way or working towards? Their admission that. Is Anti! Your mission so I mean if again if you have like the KKK on growing their business or their organization on your platform that is directly threatening to your employees, or even to your customers. You have the right to say no, we can't work with. US I, mean you. You make aditorial decisions all the time like this right whether it's like the type of people you hire the freelance work where you have a code of conduct at Your Business you make these decisions all the time, so so you are allowed to stand up and say we're not gonNA work without with an organization like this. DC Some good examples of acceptable use policies out that I mean I've seen a lot of great acceptable use policies even pay. Pal is a great acceptable use policy facial consecrate, acceptable use policy, not enforcing it. so so I mean having trouble. US policies is one thing the other thing is you gotTa have the Honus to enforce them so? One thing that I think is really important. It's important to have these your values right now publicly, but it's also important to be able to be transparent about your decision won't lose the trust of your customers. You don't WanNa play it. Both ways you don't want to say. I will work with anybody you know. Our company will work at absolutely anybody and then start banning people on what seems like sort of ad hoc basis. That's that's exactly what's giving companies in trouble. You don't want to do what they're doing. And this has a real commercial impact essentially not only with customers, but also. Internally with recruiting with retention and things like that I know I saw the story about wayfair where they were selling. It was found out by the employees that they were selling to the detention camps in Texas in southern border of the states, and it was a real clamor internally, and the CEO defended the practice. And you know it's not something. I've kept up with a domino of the full extent of it, but that has not gone well for them. From a PR perspective and I can't imagine it's going well. You've got the walkouts in Google and protests there is that the way to? There's always the moral reason. You would say that we should do this. We've got a written in our acceptable use policy, but getting people to live up.

US MVP Google Texas CEO
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

03:10 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"With wayfair and Amazon. Even. Pailin tier of cloudflare with all these companies I don't think they've kept up with the slight immunity whiplash happened. Just in the course of two years, they haven't kept up with this change. This tidal wave in the way that consumers are willing to speak up and and be heard had to something that happened I. Think just a couple of weeks ago. With was a pay. Pal Who is taking KKK? Payments Yeah, I was researching for a talk giving touring best and I went to look up a fresh example of hate group using payment processors. All I did was typing KKK in I don't know something else I. Don't know. And I ended up on KKK website. I saw that they were soliciting donations using paypal. And I started out at the company and. Guess a week or so later got picked up and when a little bit viral, and a another twitter account based in Canada, came out and encourage their followers to right into pay pal, and take down and pay. Paul responded. They took a town. It's amazing. Isn't it and I felt like these companies? It's very reactive instead of. Proactive intensive. How managing this at the moment by guests you'll you'll. Mission is to make it so that you don't ever have to highlight it. Is that right? And then I mean why like it's almost like they just view us as their free labor like we're just. Yeah, we're like their free volunteers. Flagging it for them. You know we do the work. They respond if they feel like it. I have flocked up like at least five other groups who with paypal? Individuals and have not heard back about it. They haven't really done anything about it. One of them is in fact, a white nationalist named Stephan Mulinuu and he is straight up like a dangerous white nationalist individual. You know he he. He shouldn't be using pay pal like he shouldn't be allowed to to to use pay pal, but he collects monthly subscriptions from his his yours. Were huge following on Youtube, and he's able to monetize that using paypal. And when you say, you shouldn't be allowed, that's not based on just your own personal politics. That's this on their terms of service isn't Oh. It has nothing to do with politics. It's one hundred percent to their own acceptable use policy. Gay have in their acceptable use policy a clause that says we don't work with groups. We don't work with anyone that promotes hate or intolerance or or bigotry. And they doubled down on it. After the twenty seventeen Charlottesville rally that was deadly. One woman was was murdered at this rally. The amount and they used it as a PR. Opportunity to you know to say that they were dedicated to committed to combating violence in and making sure that none of these issues pay pal, but I mean here they are. I it's right in front of them..

paypal Stephan Mulinuu cloudflare Amazon twitter Charlottesville Youtube Paul Canada
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

03:01 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Lost every day. You know that's. Not Business as usual and in the UK the. Parliament called Google to come testified about their their ads. Are On this type of content and and so these companies for the first time, these really really big tech companies had to answer like they had to. They couldn't just ignore it. which is what they wanted to do? I think that was like a real. Turning point for getting now is the first time I realized. How deep this? This issue really was I mean it wasn't just the ADS. And how involved in older you get it very much your highlighting the problem you leave the businesses to of come up with a solution and the. Or with then coming to you and saying what do we do about this oh? Yeah, I'm so. We were never really involved in the solution. We were just and we still aren't I. would say we're we're literally just a group of volunteers against an are followers. Pointing out that there is a problem and what's sad is that you know small? Just mom and pop stores shops, little startups in just people trying to do kinda crosshairs of this massive advertising grist dismissive. Ad Tech Gift So. We don't know what the solution is like. We like I'm not the product manager of. Google Edwards like I. Don't know your problems. Business you solve it but we. We know where you could start. So, we've never we've never offered absolutely a technical solution. We've never even offered up A. To be honest with you because. that was something that people started to ask very early on saying okay. What other websites should we not be on? Said well. First of all. We don't have the resources to figure that out. Because obviously anyone can. Make a website and end up in Google's AD network right so there's no way for us to be able to maintain civilised, but. More importantly, we don't feel that it's our role to make those decisions. It's your role as a brand. You have to decide where you're going to appear are not going to appear. If it turns out that the businesses that you've entrusted with your advertising, namely Google facebook have chosen to not care for your brand. Not Treat your brand in A. In a safe way than you ought to take it up with them. That's really your message. At this point, you got to take them. So let's talk a little bit about when it goes wrong, so there are plenty of companies that have had suffered real reputational problems from how they've handled things in his space, Amazon, wayfair Google of all have and I think cloud fair is an example that you've talked about in the past. Can you talk a little bit about what it looks like when he goes.

Google Parliament UK product manager Edwards Amazon
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

05:45 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"By you know, there was, there was no plan what what happened was that people started to take notice because this is all happening on social media where you can see you know the twitter account, asking questions and painting the company you see. The company's responding very quickly and people saw that this was. Making an impact, there were results coming out of this so. What we did was we started a confirmed lists basically with all the brands that had said to us. Yes, you know we. We will be sure to blacklist. We had no idea we were appearing on this to begin with. And then we throw up some instructions. Just do what we're doing and tweet at companies you know, be polite, and just tag is in the tweet, so we can keep track of things, so people started to join super easy thing to do all you have to do is go in and take the screen shot and people did it. People People tag? Doesn't it one of the things I'm really proud of actually. Is that people never? Got Nasty, so It really was like. Collide almost like a letter writing campaign except tweets. So before we continue going too deep into your work with sleeping giants, and how it works in what we can do as product people to protect ourselves and take care of ourselves in our products, which is want to go further into your background, so I met you when you were a copywriter in. You're looking at obviously brand identity and the use of language and everything with pet. Where were you professionally when you first start working with sleeping giants don't remember you being a someone. I knew as overtly political most. Cal so when I went cleaning giants up. I was at Pat. I was head of growth, and I was just plugging away on marketing stuff and I guess before that I was doing marketing for a customer support helped us software, and in both roles I was sort of like absorbing a lot of information I like to say that as a marketer I don't know much I just like absorbed. What other people tell me or I learned and then I spit it out in our. Landing Pages, or whatever value props in this not? So yeah I I learned a lot in those few years around how tech companies make decisions because I I was learning how customer support works how customer support works with. Customer Support Fields feed-back. Complaints in and that sort of thing and how they funneled into product management. How funneled into? got that onto the agenda of their leadership, and so on so I kind of like I wouldn't say intuitive was something that I picked up along the way I kind of knew what buttons to push you know when I first started sleeping giants and that has served me Harley well. When did you see the impact of the work that you would admit sleeping giants? So this is really funny. Because we were never out to get cross attention or anything like that, we that was on our radar, but what happened was just about like maybe ten days or two weeks or something after. Joint it was December early, December one of the companies that either are one of our followers had tagged was Kellogg's. Cereal Company and Kellogg's came out like really strong in their response, they came out. They made a whole like Pr. Statement on it. They were like no, we're. We're not gonNA. Advertise Breitbart. We didn't know about it We're going to go out and do an entire audit of our our advertising, so we're not only not going to be on Breitbart anymore. We're going to check to make sure we're not on any other a sort of offense. Oh, objectionable sites that we don't want our brand to be on and. Yeah I mean that was like those massive for us at that time. And it was, it was huge. Remember seeing an article in the Guardian you know. That was really the first time in Breitbart like reacted so melodramatically day they launched. A campaign called HASHTAG dumped Kellogg's. A boycott of Kellogg saying that Kellogg's hate sits, reader is in. No one should eat Kellogg's cereal anymore, and it was totally ridiculous, but at the time you know part was You know people were watching what Breitbart was saying and doing and just because of that campaign. You know they got attention for it. We got attention for it so. That was our first big sort of milestone. Then I mean things are moving so fast back then I. can't even you know twenty sixteen ended? Every single day we were order. Things were changing companies were responding were adding to our list, so it was just moving super fast everyday, and then things came to a head in March twenty seventeen. I call it march madness, because like every day. Something crazy would happen like the UK government. Found out that their ads were appearing on like on terrorist channels on YouTube. So. I think very like there's a bunch of different agencies that were basically paying terrorists It was like two hundred fifty thousand pounds or something. It was not an insignificant amount of money. They found out. That was sort of like the rule, big one but also Thomson Reuters Jaguar both of them found out there were on. Objectionable content a on on Youtube online. And it all came to a head, and at some point in March. Two thousand seventeen have media. One of the biggest media agencies in the world came out and said. We're GONNA to pause rats. Like. We're going to pause all our. This was just in the UK, but you know all UK clients. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA PAUSE ADS. which is a huge deal I mean that is like. Millions and millions of dollars being.

Breitbart Kellogg UK YouTube twitter Thomson Reuters Cal Cereal Company
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

02:12 min | 1 year ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Welcome back t the product experience I'm really Smith and I'm randy silver hatefully a group in the states and you're here in the UK when you were a kid, did your favorite TV shows ever have something at the beginning with us and tonight on a very special episode of? Yeah but by. It just felt really appropriate for this week's episode. Do you mind if I give it a try and I K show? This week on a very special episode of the product experience, we talked to non. Dini Jimmy one of the founders of the sleeping giants movement who are working to make hate speech on profitable. You know I I met her when she was running growth for Prog Pad, which is the company that mined the product co-founders, Janna bastel and Simon Casteran and I've been her work ever since. Yes, this is a really important topic and I. Liked Your intro. Thank you renting. So regardless of you earn. Or ethics or morals, getting this wrong can have a massive effect on the way that customers employees suppliers an partners interact with your brand, and your product and I was like to see that as product managers were accountable for the into inexperience of the product, and that has to include how we live up to the values the company. In the annual report, the values that we have in the employee manual the stuff you hear about on your first day orientation. You really have to be thinking about this stuff all the time. It was a great tap, so let's get right to. Dini, thank you so much for joining us today. On the product experience you know, we know each other a little bit because of your background with prog pet, but can you give a little bit of background on who you are how you came to be doing this stuff with sleeping giants and your background in technology and product? Randy. Thank you so much for having me happy to tell you roll it about myself. So I am one of the leaders of sleeping giants. We are a social media campaign that is dedicated to making. Speech and bigotry sexism unprofitable. And I've been running it since on November twenty sixteen.

Dini Janna bastel UK Smith Randy Jimmy Simon Casteran
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

14:46 min | 2 years ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Nazi group has been using using your product so it's GonNa take. I think a complete retooling. Maybe a philosophical ossoff matching of how we're going to do business in the future and how we're going to make sure they don't get on in the first place but it's also going to be. We like we have to sit down and make subjective decisions on who were going to allow on our platform who were not going to allow on our platform. There's no lay book for this again. I don't have an answer. I don't want to tell you what to do. I shouldn't tell you what to do. It's not my business. You need to be able to look to your own values values to what kind of brand you wanNA build to decide. WHO GETS TO USE Your Your Business. What you're what you want your business to be known for and then then make your decision just as an example bumble is dating that has a very very clear sense of its values and those values include integrity already equality. There are feminist up the way that they have marketed themselves the way that they want to be seen perceived in the world. This is how they get customers the customers by users air platform and twice now it's happened that users have flagged up once it was. George Zimmerman the a young guy who killed Trayvon Martin and got acquitted so technically. I don't know but George Zimmerman and Jack Pacific he's a white nationalist like all right cool and both times when they were flagged up bumble acted incredibly fast and took them down took those accounts down. They said you know these accounts. The these type of people don't belong on our platform and indicates of George Zimmerman it was not only trayvon Martin but he also has a history of domestic took violence. It doesn't make sense for them to have people who are like obviously publicly known for domestic violence to be on their platform. That's not what their platform stands for doing. Protecting attacking their brand so that you know people especially women their core group user group continues to use their product this is this is a business concession so we took a lot of Improv that you manage the entire user experience from from end to end but a lot of times people are we're working only with a DEV team with a designer copywriter maybe but they're not necessarily working with marketing with support. They don't see this picture sure who else besides bumble who is potentially a good example of a company that seems to to get it and is managing the experience well. I in contrast has done a fantastic job you know they they know what their product is about. They know what they want their users to be doing on their platform and they know what they don't want on their platform. They know what they don't want to be known for and they've been very proactive in taking down anti vaccine misinformation some like bogus medical information that kind of stuff if they had not acted could spread very quickly on their platform in for them it was a decision will that's not what we want people to come here for that's not what pinterest built for so from that perspective like with that clarity that vision they were able to make the decision. Take that stuff down the actually I should be clear. They haven't taken it down. You can still pin it. It just won't be included in their algorithms so it'll never spread byerly the the way that other information could is this something that from. I don't know if you're someone who uses a business model canvas and things like that. We spend a Lotta time defining proactively who our target market is and things like that. Is it a matter of also proactively defining the anti patterns don't want or what kind of content you don't want yeah. I think that there is a space being created for that now. I can't say I know exactly how yet I think for the first time businesses that have things like mission statements and values statements which you know we just throw up on their website and forgot about. They're going to have to start pulling it out again. I'm looking at it and really deciding whether they're going to stand by that because you know groups like is we come around and we say you know we. I go to their websites and I look get their value statements and that's what we use. When we talk to businesses we hold up this mirror to them and we say you talk about. Here's your code of conduct. You claim to to be for integrity equality now like you're. You're very strong anti harassment policy. Why would you be funding or monetize ing or enabling a user like this orne individual like this when it's so clear this is what they're doing if it's not okay in your business within your business internally. How are you okay with enabling it externally in the world and they're going to have to start revisiting that stuff because that's again. That's sort of like our. Mo Not to give away too much but that's what we that's what we do. You know. It's it's. It's stuff that you've been saying that you've been using in your marketing and talking about like this is what makes our companies special more. Just putting up a mirror your to your own values and asking you okay then go ahead and stand for it. Here's your opportunity seems like there's an opportunity if full unit as is this a trend with neo customer products so yeah perhaps says an opportunity for platform which enables your business to autumn wipeout any kind of support the hate groups Baio Platform. Oh yeah well I mean. These guys are extremely persistence. There's a reason they keep coming back to platforms like pay pal strike all they create a new account and they they're back in and as far as pay pal knows you know. I think the KKK under there sort of like purpose. They're you know what they do like that. Little feel that says you know what our businesses in what. I am who I am was donation blessing for the 'cause like I I've seen I think Alex Jones site that has a pay pal out link to it saying I provide web design services like they keep coming back and they know how to play the stem because right now the the system wants wants them in there. It's easier to keep them in there. It's very very difficult to moderate at sort of unlimited at scale system so it's easier easier for everyone involved to just let e group of volunteers do that work for them. That's where we're at right now. And that's what I would like to see change because at the very very least what I wanna what I WANNA do is is push the problem back to brands and back to tech platforms that they take their own business problem seriously so that we don't don't have to do it for them. Yeah and it's interesting as well because with social media in a you can crowd socio editorialize allies ation of the of the platform if you like with people flagging up inappropriate contents but if you're not that way inclined you're not going to click on something which seems offensive to then discover what tolls using and how can I highlight this is this is a message now full so if you see something offensive click on it and see what they are actually using and then highlight that yeah and let the company's no and frankly it'd be public about it because if it wasn't for groups like is for individuals letter during this work people wouldn't know and again businesses aren't interested in acting shall shall we see we try to keep this as public as possible because we also want other platforms smaller platforms to be thinking about this as well. We want this to be on their radar in a way that hasn't been for has been everyone's radar but you know facebook and Google haven't responded. It's it's almost a problem. That's that's so out of control. You'd have to go all the way back to square one to to start taking care of it. one thing that really really upsets me is to see the enormity of what we're dealing with is there's as a journalist named. Carlos Maza he is a he was a journalist box on he would make little explainer videos kind of explaining current event issues and things like that and he announced on twitter back in. I think June saying that you know ever since he took on this job he's been bleeding harassed online by a guy on youtube named Steven crowder Steven crowder would make these like homophobic racist ethnic slurs against him and he would end up being you know seeing a wall of harassment hatred on his instagram and twitter profiles like on a daily basis and he he brought attention engine to this and said you know Youtube has a acceptable use policy dot should ban the sky from having channel but instead. He's being monetize. He's he's being amplified by this platform and this thing went violet was drink pride months you know and Youtube which had invested I don't know how much money and how much effort for into changing everything to rainbows on all their social media and you know sponsoring all these pride events and whatever they were faced with a very very very substantial problem like very basic question are we going to continue allowing this gay guy to be harassed just for being gay like that should be an easy answer right no down but they didn't they couldn't even come up with a straight answer they went doc on it like twice and then they came back and they were facing a ton of PR rusher in the came back and said okay. WE'RE GONNA keep it up but we're going to D- monetize it okay. We're not GONNA make any money off of Steven crowder. Steven crowder's not gonNA make any money off of youtube account. We're not GONNA make any money off a video but it turns out that Steven crowder doesn't make money on Youtube. He makes the bulk of his money. Selling merch that March is sold by shellfire on one of the teachers he was selling was Carlos. Maza is a F- word T. Shirt and shoplift is taking a cut of it. He's taking a cut of it. I mean look at this system. That's play yeah yeah and that got sure has come down now shop if I won't sell it anymore so they took it down but if you Google and I did also for for my presentation I discovered a lot just doing research for it. If you Google Carlos Maza t-shirt you'll have dozens of sellers selling that exact t-shirt who will take the cost of it. You must have the weirdest searches I do. It's unless aw is kind of it's kind of depressing but I'm really glad that you guys are out there holding these businesses accountable unflagging this stuff up and I know I will surely be much more aware of it as I'm traveling around on the Internet looking at things and tagging you in twitter tweets when appropriate so for anyone who wants to get involved. It sounds like there's two different with zoo. One is to get involved with sleeping giants directly. That's a matter matter of just a visiting twitter and you've posted some instructions on how to do this in a way that is respectful and just bring awareness rather than bring them to task so that they can confront them with their own values but the other is It sounds like just being aware and proactively questioning around your own company. Is this what we want to do. I have we thought about this. Have we taken the appropriate steps to protect ourselves from a brand reputation nations. This is something that we truly don't want to embroiled with. Is that the key messages for people yeah absolutely it is number one first and foremost to be aware the second to start thinking up a plan. How are we going to handle this issue. Should it come up at our company. You can't afford as a business to wait for days days or weeks to come up with an answer to this. You know social media moves fast so sitting around waiting around trying to figure out what you know what you WANNA do waiting for it to maybe go away. I think one of the worst things you can do. The best thing to do is have a plan already in place. No who you on your platform you don't want on your thought form and be able to just come out strong and say no. This is not what we stand for. This is not what we built this business for. You know we're gonNA take them off. It's really as simple as denny. It's been sorry lovely having you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having well. There's a lot to think about their. You know how our products are represented in the world. How we react will find something contrary to our values on the platform it reminds me of ratio when she was talking about the Black Mirror absolute and I realized that we have never taught at least not publicly about values. We have for this podcast yeah. That's a good show. Oh okay. Let's jump into it. So when we started we committed together to a couple of things we have a commitment to diversity you know we wanted to make sure that we had a good mix of voices wasn't a monoculture and gender parody but also people from outside the US in UK and at different levels of their career and we're doing pretty good on that you he reminded me that we're right about fifty percent on gender right now and but was still a bit heavy on US and UK voices but next week's guest I will help on that front and there's still some work for us to do and getting people earlier in their careers as guests so if you've done a talk at your local product tank or in the great blog boost were seen one from someone else we WanNa know we've got a wing for guest suggestions on our twitter bio where MT P. Pod but it feels like we're doing well L. on the other Prince Po which was to keep the conversations accessible to everyone regardless of level and we'd love to know what else you want to learn about so please give us a shout and well planned episodes around the topics. You suggest the and the product experience is pot of the mind. The product network a heists me. That's nearly Smith and Randy Selva. Emily taste is our producer and luke. Smith is our editor emily hours loan the we're happy to share luke if you need someone to your own podcast hey you can't him too much. He's my husband..

twitter Steven crowder Steven crowder Carlos Maza youtube Google George Zimmerman harassment Baio Platform bumble Trayvon Martin US Smith byerly pinterest UK facebook Emily taste
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

12:16 min | 2 years ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"Ad Tech Gift so we don't know what the solution is like like we like. I'm not the product manager of Google ad words like I don't know how to fix your problems your business. You solve it but we we know where you could start so they've never we've never offered absolutely a technical solution we've never even offered up a blacklist to be honest with you because that was something that people started to ask us very early on saying okay. What other websites should we not be. John and we said well first of all we don't have the resources to figure that out because obviously anyone can just make website and end up in Google's ad network right right so there's no way for us to be able to maintain socialist but more importantly. We don't feel that it's our role to make those decisions in your role as brand. You have to decide where you're going to appear. We're not gonNA appear and if it turns out that the businesses that you've entrusted with your advertising thank you know namely Google and facebook have chosen to not care for your brand. Not Treat your brand in a in a safe way than you ought to take it up with them. That's your message at this point. You got it to them so let's talk a little bit about when it goes wrong so there are plenty of companies. He's that have had suffered real reputational problems from how they've handled things in his face Amazon wayfair Google of all have and I think cloudflare's affairs an example that you've talked about in the past. Can you talk a little bit about what he looks like when he goes wrong for a company when they respond to this battle I think companies haven't haven't really kept up with the tides of of consumer attitudes and consumer perceptions since twenty sixteen things have changed just really quickly in terms of how consumers understand businesses on how consumers view businesses on their role in this like politically leap charged environments We've seen a lot of examples of like I don't know mashing and you know I don't know like what people people are up to like these boycotts and things like that we have been I would say at sleeping giants. We've been sort of educating the public around around how tech companies are fueling sort of the bad stuff that we see around us. The you know the white nationalism the racism and the the hate speech that we see online that we see manifesting offline and I think the result of our work is that consumers feel empowered word to make change because they can see. It's right in front of them. They can see that if they speak up. companies have to respond so that's become almost most a habit people understand people feel not only empowered but they have an expectation that they will be responded to and companies aren't and I think right now with as mentioned with wayfair and Amazon and even Pailin Tier of cloudflare with all these companies. I don't think they've kept up with us. It's like it's like whiplash has happened. Just in the course of two years haven't kept up with this change. This tidal wave in the way that consumers are willing to speak up and and and be hard and you had to something had happened just a couple of weeks ago with was pay pal who is taking KKK payments. I was researching aging for a talk. I was giving it tearing best and I went to look up a fresh example of a hate group using payment processors. All he did was typing. KKK and I don't know something else I don't know and I ended up on a website and I saw that they were soliciting donations using paypal and and I tweeted it out at the company and I guess a week or so later it got picked up and when a little bit viral and another twitter account based in Canada came out and encourage their followers to right into pay pal and get it taken down and Paul responded. They took down. It's amazing thing isn't. NFL like these companies. It's very reactive instead of proactive intensive. How managing this at the moment by guess. Yo- oh you'll mission is to make it so that you don't ever have to highlight it is that right and then I mean why like it's almost like they just view us. As is there free labor like we're just we're like their free volunteers flagging it for them. You know we do the work. They respond if they feel like it. I I have flocked up like at least five other groups with pay pal and individuals and have not heard back about it. They haven't really done on anything about it. one of them is in fact a white nationalist named. Stephan Mahlangu and he is straight up like a dangerous white nationalist individual visual he he he shouldn't be using pay out like he shouldn't be allowed to to to use pay pal but he collects monthly subscriptions inscriptions from his his yours were huge following on youtube and he's able to monetize not using paypal and when you say you shouldn't be allowed. That's not based on it. Just your own personal politics. That's their terms of service isn't it. Oh it has nothing to do with politics. It's a hundred percent to do with their own acceptable use policy they have in their acceptable optimal use policy a clause that says we don't work with he groups we don't work with anyone that promotes heat or intolerance or bigotry and they doubled down on it after the twenty seventeen. CHARLOTTESVILLE rally that was deadly one woman was was murdered at this rally the came out and they they used it as a PR opportunity to you know to say that they were dedicated to committed to combating violence and making sure that none of these groups us pay pal but I mean here they are. It's right in front of them. So what's your advice for product manages the whacking in in companies that are currently supporting in these these hate groups yeah. This is a great question. I think product managers are in a unique position seven. It's a leadership position where they have the opportunity and I think the responsibility to bring these issues up at their companies. the one thing in particular that I encourage folks intact ought to look at to think about is their acceptable use policies who is being allowed to use their platform and who shouldn't be allowed to use their platform and that is not a personal decision that and it shouldn't be personalises should not be up to how you feel about things personally. That's not a healthy way to make decisions for a business. The first thing that a business should be looking at their values their what their business was founded on for a lot of businesses says integrity equality. This is the stuff that you put on your mission statement. You're about as like. It's there in public so you know you have those written down already. Why not abide by them. One one way of thinking about it is if this user or this group or whatever is behaving in a way or working towards their admission that is antithetical to your mission so I mean again if you had like the KKK on growing their business or their organization on your platform that is his directly threatening to your employees or even to your customers. You have the right to say no. We can't work with us. I mean you you make make editorial decisions all the time like this. Whether it's like the type of people you hire the freelances you work with who have code of conduct at Your Business you make these decisions decisions all the time so you are allowed to stand up and say no. We're not gonNA work without with an organization like this. DC Some good examples of acceptable use policies. It's out there. I mean I've seen a lot of great acceptable. Use Policies even pay pal is a great acceptable use policy facial concentrate acceptable use policy not enforcing so so yeah. I mean having US policies is one thing the other thing is you gotta have the Kahane's to enforce them so one thing that I say that. I think I think is really important. If it's important to have these your values written out publicly but it's also important for you to be able to be transparent about your decision so you won't lose the trust of your customers. There's you know you don't want to play it both ways. You don't want to say I will work with anybody. Our company will work at absolutely anybody and then start banning people on on what seems like a sort of your ad hoc basis. That's that's exactly what's getting companies are facebook in trouble you don't want to do what they're doing and this has a real commercial impact essentially actually not only with customers but also internally with recruiting retention and things like that. I know saw the the story about wayfair where they were selling it was found out by the employees that they were selling to the detention camps in Texas and the southern border of the states and it was a real clamor internally early and the CEO defended the practice and you know it's not something I've kept up with a a donald of the full extent of it but that has his knock on well for them from a PR perspective and I can't imagine it's going well the you've got the walkouts in Google and protests there. Is that the way to you know. There's always the moral reason you would say that we should do this. We've got a written in our acceptable use policy but getting people to live up to it and enforce. It is not the way to go about it. Yeah you know I I really don't believe that businesses respond to morals and ethics. I I wish I could say they do do but they respond a lot more quickly to liability to risk ability and and that's what it's become so with wayfair that turned into do a mean dot was at its root moral issue but where it became a business risk was when they couldn't justify it with their employees employees. We're not okay with it. Their employees said we will not build it. We will not sell it. It turned into an embarrassment for that company and what they didn't realize. Is that you know. Employees are consumers as well and they realized that they did have power. You know that company can't go on without its employees and as a result even if you as a business leader dirt don't WanNa make these decisions. Your employees are going to have sort of make that decision for you so just taking it back to the manages. FEM Old people even because awesome is probably not just the manages the wanting to make sure that that businesses behaving morally well aside from influencing acceptable use policies and having good ones hopefully morally acceptable. Is there anything else that we can do in our products that prevents since the entire right-wing extremists and other extremists from monetize ing from this is a really a really tough question. You don't tech was built on this idea that we build our products to scale so we work really hard to get people to click the start a new trial the common customer whatever like that's what we live and die by intact so right now the way that the system is built. It is designed by default to benefit these groups and organizations. It's GonNa take think a real rocketing with what we've created. It's GONNA choir us to step back and think about. Do we even know who were doing business with because we've come to a point where for example pay pal. It doesn't actually know who's on its platform unless someone like me or I don't know just some random person on the internet informs them for months for months. You've the KKK or a white supremacist..

Google facebook product manager KKK cloudflare Amazon John US twitter CHARLOTTESVILLE youtube Texas Stephan Mahlangu NFL Paul Canada Kahane CEO
"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

The Product Experience

12:52 min | 2 years ago

"nandini jammi" Discussed on The Product Experience

"And welcome back to you the product experience I'm Lily Smith and Randy silver hatefully. I grew up in the states and you were here in the okay when you were a kid did your favorite TV shows ever have something at the beginning where they said and tonight on a very special episode of Yeah but by. It just felt really appropriate for this week Sepah. Do you mind if I give it a try and I K. I show gave this week on a very special episode of the product experience we talked to Dini Jimmy one of the founders of the sleeping giants movement who are working to make hate speech unprofitable you know I I met her when she was running growth for proud pad which is the company that mined the product co-founders Janna Basta and Simon Task Run and I've been following her work ever since yes. This is a really important topic and I liked to intro. Thank you renting say uh regardless of your politics ethics or morals getting this wrong can have a massive effect on the way that customers employees suppliers and partners interact racked with your brand and your product and I was like to see that as product managers were accountable for the end to end experience of the product and that has to include how we live up to the values. The company publishes in the annual report the values that we have in the employee manual stuff you hear about on your first day in orientation. You really have to be thinking about this stuff all the time it. It was a great tap so let's get right to Dini. Thank you so much for joining us today. On on the product experience you know we know each other a little bit because of your background with prog head but can you give a little bit of background on who you are how you came to be doing stuff with sleeping giants and your background in technology and product Randy. Thank you so much for having me well. I'm happy about myself so I am one of the leaders of sleeping giants. We are a social media campaign that is dedicated to making hate speech and bigotry sexism unprofitable and I've been running it since on November twenty sixteen when I I went on Breitbart for the first time in twenty sixteen eighteen shortly after the elections. I saw these sort of shocking headlines that I you know they weren't super shocking to me because I've been hearing about them reading about them but hearing about them in the news but the thing that struck me when I went on this website was that it was being supported by ads that were from companies. I said I shopped with a trusted so I think some of the first few ads I saw her from like target old navy Sastre even 'cause. I've been looking at their conference for a while. I was just being retargeted. Kinda hit me like instantly that that this is how this website makes money so and actually it's funny because I was at prod. I was running our Google ad words. I was using a very small ad budget at the time so I was. It's like super in all about where I was always in their checking like where's my ad place. How did it perform you know like which which page performed better. What did they do on the on the landing page that I wrote you know so I was Kinda like familiar with the INS and outs of Google ad words so for me. It all just came together our like real quick and what I did at the time was kind of look around like I remember being in my room by myself and I was like am am I crazy like is this is it just me has no one else figured this out yet and turns out like no one had as far as I knew so I I I did the only thing I knew how to do at the time which was right immediate post a medium article I called it something like Hey. PPC marketers you don't wait to blacklist breitbart encouraging performance marketers to go ahead and just at Breitbart to their exclusion list to their blacklist. I was like no one like no. One's is GONNA ask don't worry no one's. GonNa notice you're not going for them and I kind of sat back and waited for it to go viral and it didn't like no one eight attention like was it had it all figured out so that was a bit disappointing but I think literally the next day it was like I remember waking up in the morning or something and I had a message from this account called sleeping giants so and saying you know hey great article. You know we're doing the same thing you should join us about. That's how I met not. He was doing the same thing he was on Breitbart for the first time after the elections and he had the same sort of idea yeah that I had but he was set on doing it anonymously and I also decided to remain anonymous so we ran the campaign anonymously for almost two years so you decided to run the campaign on twitter is that right so we have a twitter and facebook okay and how did you go about designing that campaign to to attract as many people as possible attract the attention of as many people as possible. We didn't design anything out. Stop we yeah we did not. We did the opposite of design we had no clue what we were doing and every day we would just wake up and like it just see what was you know like just actually at the beginning we would it was really just screen shotting pretty much every brands every Ashley saw and tweeting at the brand just it was just a very monotonous repetitive thing I mean it still is to be honest pretty by you know there was there was no plan. What what happened was that people started to take notice because this is all happening on social media where you can see you know the twitter account asking Questions Ping the company you can see the company's responding very quickly and people saw that this was making an impact. There were results coming out of this so what we did. Was We started a confirmed lists basically with all the brands that had said to us. Yes you know we we will be short a blacklist this we had no idea we were appearing on the site to begin with and then we throw up some instructions besides just do what we're doing and tweet at companies you know be polite and and just tag is in the tweet so we can keep track of things so people started to join. It was super easy thing to do. All you have to do is going to take this screen. Shot and people did it people. All people tag doesn't it one of the things I'm really proud of actually is that people never got nasty so it really was like polite almost almost like a letter writing campaign except with tweets so named any before we continue going too deep into your work with sleeping giants and how it works and and what we can do as product people to protect ourselves and and take care of ourselves in our products which is want to go further into your background so I met you when and you were a copywriter and you're looking at obviously brand identity and the use of language and and everything without pet. Where were you professionally when you I started working with sleeping giants. I don't remember you being someone I knew as overtly political yeah so when I when I it was at prod Pat I was head of growth and I was just plugging away on marketing stuff and I guess before that I was doing marketing for a customer support helped us software am both roles. I was sort of like absorbing a lot of information. I like to say that as market I don't know much I just like absorbed what other people tell me what. I learned that I spit it out in Augsburg landing pages or whatever value props in this not so I I learned a lot in those few years around how companies make decisions 'cause I. I was learning how customer support works how customer support works with or customer support fields feedback complaints in that sort of thing and how they funnel that into product like management how they funnel that in to get that onto the agenda of their leadership and so on so I kind of like I wouldn't say intuitive but it was something that I picked up along the way so I I kind of knew what buttons to push you know when I first started with sleeping giants and that has served me really well and when did you first see the impact of the work that you would admit sleeping John's so this is really funny because we were out to get cross attention or anything like that we that I was on a radar but what happened was just about like maybe ten days or two weeks or something. After joint it was December early. December wanted one of the companies that either is our one of our followers had tagged was Kellogg's the cereal company and Kellogg's came out like really really strong in their response came out. They made a whole like PR statement on it. They were like no. We're not gonNA advertise on Breitbart. We didn't know about it. We're we're going to go out and do an entire audit of our our advertising so we're not only not going to be on Breitbart anymore. We're GONNA CHECK TO MAKE sure we're not on any other. A sort of offensive Jacksonville sites that that we don't want our brand to be on and yeah I mean that was like those massive for us. At that time it was huge. I remember seeing an article in the Guardian that was really the first time in Breitbart like reacted so melodramatically day. They launched a campaign called Hashtag dump. Kellogg's walks a boycott of Kellogg saying that Kellogg's hates its reader is No one should eat. Kellogg cereal anymore and it was totally ridiculous but at at the time you know Breitbart. was you know people were watching what Breitbart was saying and doing it and just because of that campaign you know they got attention for it. We got attention for it. So that was our first big sort of milestone then I mean things are moving so fast back then. I can't even twenty sixteen ended. you know every single day were or things were changing companies. Were responding were adding to or less so it was just moving super fast every day and then things came to a head in March twenty seventeen I call it march madness because like everyday something crazy would happen like the UK government found out that that their ads were appearing on like on terrorist channels on Youtube so I think very. There's a bunch of different agencies that were basically Kley paying terrorists. It was like two hundred fifty thousand pounds or something was not an insignificant amount of money they found out that was a a big one but also Thomson Reuters Jaguar. Both of them found out their ads were on objectionable content on Youtube sube online all came to a head and at some point in March turning seventeen Havis media one of the biggest media agencies in the world world came out and said we're going to pause. That's like we're going to pause this was just in the UK but you know all the UK clients. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA PAUSE OUR ADS. which is a huge deal? I mean that is like millions and millions of dollars being lost every day. You know that's not business as usual and then the U K. The I think it parliament called Google to come testify about their their ads. You know why we're at this type of content and these companies for the first time these really really big tech companies had to answer like they had to. They couldn't just ignore it. which is what they wanted to do? I think that that was a real turning point for That was the first time I realized how deep this does issue really. was I mean it wasn't just the ads and how involved involved in an older you get very much your highlighting the problem and then you leave the businesses to sort of come up with the solution indeed the other wet then coming to you in saying. What do we do about this so yeah. I'm so we were never really involved in the solution. We were just I mean we still aren't I would say we're literally just a group of Volunteers Agus. An an are followers pointing out that there is a problem problem and what's sad is that you know small just mom and pop stores shops little startups in just people trying to do their own thing are are kind of in the crosshairs of this massive advertising grist dismissive..

Breitbart Google Dini Jimmy twitter Randy silver Kellogg UK Lily Smith Janna Basta Youtube Sastre Ashley Simon Pat I Jacksonville