20 Episode results for "NBS"

Risky Business #569 -- Bezos' Saudi hack claims, Glenn Greenwald facing cybercrime charges

Risky Business

50:26 min | 11 months ago

Risky Business #569 -- Bezos' Saudi hack claims, Glenn Greenwald facing cybercrime charges

"Hi everyone and welcome to risky business. Your weekly Information Security News and current affairs Jerry. My Name's Patrick Gray and yeah. It is a kind of a big week for the Cyber News and we'll get to all of that in just a moment without co host Adamo boiler and after the news this week we we will be hearing from tyler phones from expel dot. I A managed security provider. That's these sponsored of year. But the funny thing here is expel isn't isn't actually a risky business sponsor. They're VAM ray customer and instead of having one of their own people in this onslaught this week. VM Ray decided. They like you'll ought to hear from one of their customers now. Basically expel uses. VM right pretty extensively in its workflow these days as you hear for MSP to be able to use them right a speed beat out indicators. So they can then use those indicators across the whole customer base actually comes in quite handy telephones. We'll be along a little bit later on to talk about that. We thanks to this week. Sponsor VM. Ray but of course it is time for a check of the week security news now with Adam boiler and Adam of course the big news. That's just dropped. Prior to US recording is claims out of the Jeff Bezos camp that apparently m BS Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince. NBS Komo personally owned. Jeff bezos. Fun which is you know. People might have forgotten that in two thousand eighteen tabloid media obtained title of this material from Jeff bezos. Foreign that blew up his marriage and you know it was. It was a big scandal at the time and there was some moms that perhaps Saudi Arabia was involved in that and eventually eventually go friend's brother confess to like stealing the data from your phone and we wondered if that was parallel construction. And now there's this claim. Wow you know. We're three weeks into two thousand twenty and just it's just. The news is is delicious. Jump on and it really is. It's very twenty story isn't it then. Mohammed bin Salman like personally personally from his. What's up account earned Jif Beatles's phone to get his leg to get his dick pics like? Wow Wow but yeah the. There's a forensics are due out any need I now We haven't seen it yet about the reporting in advance for it does seem to say that His Fungal earned after a direct. What's conversation between Jeff Bezos? NBS NBS swing through the US to make some contacts and visit people in drama business and talk Saudi You know he was at some point exchange numbers and then a couple of days later in a conversation A. M. P. File apparently was dropped on us via what's APP and its yield is fine and then from that point onwards for some months many gigabytes gigabytes of data. We're being expelled from from his phone and apple who knows what purposes at least right and and apparently Financial Times have seen report from FBI consulting assaulting the that outlays the SP- yeah like a dodgy. MP Four meanwhile remember and previously denied absolutely denied that it's Melwood could even be used against phone numbers right so there's so many angles to all of this. Yeah we do wondering what tools they were using We did see some talk on the twitter about NFL groups involvement in the Tuli. Then we saw someone else talking about You know the the top with hacking team and Saudi local tiny who was involved in in the Kashogi incident as well You know his relationship with hacking team. Maybe they were involved. But I'm GonNa either way the fact that he gets straight up owned straight from. NBA says you know what's epoch Alec. That's pretty like this very few being given their when you're doing that and that's a pretty the big middle finger. Yeah and you wonder like what the forensics report is going to look like did they then. MP Four with one that didn't have an exploit in which is probably if it's may up. What's the first thing I'm GonNa do right so you know you wanted those expensive bugs? Yea exactly right so you wonder how much evidence we're actually gonNA see. Apparently this report is coming outlive tomorrow. which really sucks for us? Because we can't really shit off on at the moment but you know it does make you wonder if this whole thing about Lauren. Sanchez's brother like you know Getting access to that foreign if that was sort of parallel construction designed to cover some asses. There's also rumors that like Jared Kushner may have been involved in brokering the sale of of anti-soviet technology to the Saudis. Like this one is. I have a feeling we'll be talking about this one again next week and angles on it right. I think so and of course is it. Well the question questions I had was so many. NBA goes through the US. He meets with a bunch of people in Green. Jeff bezos amendment leads to this relationship which is used to deliver the expert. Who else did he meet with? And who else got themselves shelled by the Saudis around the same time bezos. We know that because he went public because he made a big splash and decided to go. Spend money on you know forensics and and you know private security. There's a lot of people who probably would've handled this quietly. You wonder who else is going to get. Our head got owned by the same campaign and you wonder if this targeting and attack might have been done away from NSO's actual platforms right like if you've got pretty good access to the attack you could repurpose an MP four. Aw You know what I mean changed the C to like you could do that right. Yeah I imagine building a set of tooling that contrary used for purposes. He didn't intend I. I used to build offensive tolling for living right. I understand that. That's you know you can take a bunch of steps but you know it's very hard to build tools way. You control what they used for especially by I sovereign government. I mean yeah yeah so. That's a hard. That's a hard thing for sorta justifying given that got that you know hearing coming up with the amnesty challenging the experts essence at Israel. You know it's a hard thing for them to be able to defend because you know I mean if your MBA. You've got your own people and you're like hey this platform at this foreign that we've said capture the exploitation area and we are yeah this ways and means right and I'm sad has plenty of money. They got plenty of. Will you know the smart. The people seems reasonable. They'd be able to make that work. When looks like prosecutors in Brazil GonNA charge? Glenn Greenwald with I guess cybercrime offenses over the Vazza jeter leaks. Look I mean I follow this whole all of this stuff. A little bit closer than most because most listeners would know but some wooden Mrs Business is Brazilian riot so I spend a bit of time over there as well. Now there's been this whole lava Joe Torre Corruption Investigation investigation which brought down extremely powerful and corrupt people. The former president of Brazil the champion of the left Lula. He was one the people who got brought down by this investigation. A whole bunch of those investigators got telegrams hacked and that information information from those telegram accounts found their way to Glenn Greenwald and it does look like there was certainly some misconduct on behalf of the judge overseeing this massive corruption investigation from a couple of of years ago that judges now the justice minister in the far right's government in Brazil but like God. It's look it's so complicated. There's a saying about Brazil right which is Brazil isn't the beginnings of this is much more and I just outlined outlined something. That sounds complicated. Even more complicated than it sounds ons right especially when you start looking people. WHO's the judge now justice minister? You look at his motivations and like what what what on Earth is going on essentially Glenn Greenwald in Brazil. He is a player right. He's not just a journalist. His husband is a federal congressman for example and he took up. The position of John Willis who was run out of Brazil because he was openly guy he was he was fearing free? Safety Mario Franco a left leaning politician in Brazil. She was murdered in two thousand eighteen and The people who did that linked to the president's family like let's put it this way wearing some cybercrime. Charges is probably like the least worst the thing that I was expecting to actually happen to Glenn Greenwald through because He. He's really parking all awful lot of dangerous people in the eye but I ah. It looks pretty thin. What they're alleging he has done east to tell the people his sources who provided him with this information from these stolen telegram accounts? It's you know telling them to delete the material which they assign is. He's trying to help them cover up criminal offenses. That seems pretty thin to me. So so unless there's more evidence that we're going to see. I mean this does just look purely politically motivated. Yes it does. It does kind of seem that way. And maybe that's enough. Maybe the the just kind of reminding him of his position as what's going on and maybe there's more things you know as you say. Wheels on wheels over there but yeah he certainly bitten off quite quite a bit. I think maps more than can sure. Yeah he has and yeah. We'll just we'll just see what happens there. And it was funny just thinking through this thing. Because the way that he reports over there the way that he conducts himself he really is like more like apply more like a participant in the political process. Then reporter right Donna journalist but that kind of makes the charges worse right because he is actually political the participant. So we're just going to have to see what happens there but don't ever make the mistake of thinking that anything that happens in Brazil is simple it just never. Ah We've got some interesting infer here. There's been a lot of press over the last year of Operation Glowing Symphony and this was cyber commands. I believe believe me and some other five eyes partners were involved in this one as well There was an operation against the Islamic state media organization. Where they planned? This attack went in X.. Filled everything and then burned burned down. We've seen some documents become public now. Which is pretty interesting in the funniest thing is that Cyber Command Xfinity Dada from Islamic State's media unit? Actually we run out of disk on man. You've seen Islamic state's propaganda. It's all very high Def video disc right. What did you expect? I know the field. Sometimes you on a box you WANNA angst filled. Some daughter is genuinely hard to get a few gigs of stuff out of somebody else's but yeah then having a place to stash at safe and moving around. I can see how that gets tedious. Plus you know all the requisition forms you'd have to fill in to get more discs like. I'm sure it's a very complicated process. It's lots of lots of paperwork to be carried out just to get a few more terabytes of disk kicking round as over there to combat. Yeah clearly they managed to do it anyway. Even with the challenges the running discount if also Alexi Berkoff now. This is the guy who was extradited to the United States. We've spoken about him before. He's sort of at the center of political intrigue. The Americans wanted him the Russians. Didn't you want the Americans to get him etcetera etcetera. Looks like he is going to plead out on some charges which makes me think. Maybe he's reached some sort of plea agreement is that is. Is that what we're looking at him. I imagined soy it. Looks like he's accused of a whole bunch of stuff that are related to count for financial stuff. The backstory and Russia's seem to suggest that maybe he was also during work government there which is why they didn't want to come out does sound like he's GonNa play presumably for the financial crime related things and yeah a plea agreement. I and I'm sure that doesn't mean the Russians particularly happy to see Does seem like you know what you would imagine. This would be coming from what we see of that agreement. What other stuff comes out of it? Whether that's all kind of kept quiet. And the Americans use it for their own purposes unrolling. Whatever other stuff? He was involved in on behalf of the Russians. Yeah it'll be interesting. Yeah I mean I'd just be very clear if I were him. That my dream. It has nothing to do with me telling the Americans anything they WANNA know about other stuff. Okay every clear. Yes yes yeah. You don't want to get their bro. Do Not WanNa get Epstein. Citric finally has put out a patch a series of patches for these bugs that we've spoken about that that I were reported in December and their initial response to this was to publish like really complicated. Mitigation advice which was just nuts right but finally there are patches out for the stuff doff but you know you probably already owned anyway. Well that's the problem right. Tricks is just so widely used and insecurity critical role like they really needed to handle this Beta and patches a few weeks later after everybody's gone wrecked stock. It's not GonNa go well for them. You know You know I guess if you have a six tricks on the Internet and he didn't already do something to it then you can go pats when we saw advice from wasn't the Dutch national security just off. Just just turn off your centrex because you know people who run their entire banks or whatever across subjects can totally do that but you know but that's the thing it's it's not exactly practical advice is it. Just don't music. Well No. It's not but on the other hand you know getting earned from the outside three security controls also not particularly good so pick one. Meanwhile they're occurs going round earning only six APP delivery gateways and yeah and basically hugs and basically then mitigating the bug so that they've got exclusive access and stuff this is making headlines Lines which is Kinda funny considering like this is pretty much standard operating procedures since the eighty S. Yeah it's funny. Some of the reporting around you know. Oh my God people are breaking in an patching it so that other people can't follow the minister. That's kind of a black hats back in the old days you know for people who didn't grow up in the wild west of ninety s IRC when everybody own different staffing. That's kind of what you did you know. He didn't want to share your Shell. That's just an aunt who shaves a shell. We're going to present. I mean it's it's like the old joke from the nineties about how you knew your UNIX box was because it was running battle got competent outsources Adleman from Bulgaria or something. Yeah pretty much I mean. He's we sacrifice a bit of disk so they've got long as long as they look after everything and clean it up. That's fine and you know. Of course we didn't didn't speak about it but there was a fire Fox Nasty Fox bug going out there. Being actively exploited turns out. It's a related bug is affecting Internet explorer that is in in use in the wild in a limited capacity. But there's no patch yet so it's just feels like this January man. It's just been a good. It feels like ten years ago. Bug was right yeah. There's definitely been a flurry of bugs. Like maybe we just not really covered I e bugs to there's been there's probably a pain what at least a couple of every past us day for the last five years still still plenty of boxer as usual. These ones are coming out of Q.. Three sixties team in China. They're pretty good at browser parks over there but this actually I mentioned briefly whilst they were talking five talks talks bogged with the Hamilton. Had another one and then like the whole disclosure timeline and patching com for. This is a little bit funny looking at them and as every week. The new I.. E. Bargain someone using them in the wild so get used to having the patch regularly now as we expected. We've already seen some proof of concepts for that bug that. Ns Site disclosed the twenty twenty six or one the crypto or floor. Yeah people having a bit of fun with it. I believe even was it. Some of your guys played around with it as well. Yeah everyone's been having having a bit of trying to figure out all of the options in ways in different things you can do with it. I mean obviously we've seen Proof of concepts force straight up web deal this man in the middle We saw in delpy from the mimic of cats fame. Implementing it for signed power shell scripts and signed would macro. 's that's that's pretty sweet being able to drop a word doc with sign macro against boss that control That's cool Yes if you have a specific date house like I. I'm not sure we were super clear last week about the applicable to this blog prior to windows ten does seem. API didn't have support for custom defined elliptical points prior to win in many of Yeah windowsill between sixteen so that was appointed. Got A little bit lost. So it's not all the way back into the old windows But yeah it's good to see people having a go and yeah finding all of the various interesting ways that this can be leveraged and they will be absolutely mormon there's all sorts of good stuff That PK high bypass kits. which is what makes it such an interesting bug last poss- aw had a major outage right? which is I mean I? I saw something. That's one of it might have been lost one or the other ones preparing an IPO. These companies worth a fortune right. But the last thing you want really when you're that type of organization is GonNa Loutish Right. Can you imagine the millions lost off mountain cabinet. Yeah exactly we really GonNa put you in particular your passwords in a cloud possible. So if you really want to be sure it's going to be there. And then they flop to the conversation with the customs about the fact they were having an outage was very angry people on twitter going. Well you know you're not you're saying there's nothing wrong or it's an isolated incident and it seems to be happening in a much more widespread where I don't know how long it was four by. It's just it's not good Wayne you trying to have people buy you. Have people have confidence in your service and this is the payroll of the cloud. All right is your knows how it's made we infer we leak info seized by the FBI. Tell us about. WE LEAKING DOT com. Yes it was. It was the site that aggregated aggregated data breach style. Fan would sell access to it so much like Halloween pound except they actually give you the grids which is really handy when you want to actually hack people with that information it was a few you kind of services like this and the FBI does pay to be going around? Trying to shut down GONNA clamp down on some of the people who are making money selling breach daughter and not during in the same sort of responsible. The way that we see late to source was the one from a few years back. You know that the person running. That didn't have a good time no no exactly. This particular traumas not Particularly expensive I don't know how good the quality of the data was. But there's still a whole bunch of other services around you know some targeting the underground some targeting most viscous grim subtitling. PINTA swims there are useful services to purchase. It's not necessarily a business I would want to be in but you know it is is useful. Yeah Yup Mitsubishi Electric bad time. Yeah this one seems to be making some news. In Japan. Mitsubishi Electric is a big industrial conglomerate. They're also has a bunch of ties to the defense industry. And Yeah it being a target in this case for Chinese hackers or up in their business and stuff. Yeah that's going on a gift Japanese something to worry about kind of make sense You know the Chinese a little back and everybody and Vince Industry stuff in Japan sitting interesting. Well I mean the reason I wanted to talk about. That one is so that we can contrast with this next one which is apparently China using share point bugs to earn. US municipal governments governments. What on earth is this about? What is going well? That's a good question writer and I even I mean on one hand you may as well just aren't everything because I'm the incremental cost of owning. It is pretty loud. You never know what it might be useful for down the line on the other hand. I mean the connotated as the reasons they attribution that using them and it may. We'll be that this is just what all hackers do you know. Earning using checkpoint bogs. Let's face it. Why wouldn't you do that? Shaped by. Bugs are amazing and then they're like you know cover roasting stealing the main ab been getting older. That's just what everybody does. Widen Demane Admin on municipalities network. Because I mean is. Is this something related to the upcoming election. Well there's lots of reasons but You know nation's infrastructure you can just leverage it you never know what you're are gonNA find them and go and steal everything and you can do it at the scale. China doesn't do it. Industrial Era Bungalow into the announced pipeline. Late people have looking. If not what you're gonNA find but I guess there's just holidays to control some critical infrastructure. Yes well exactly. And when we were talking about Iran boss before you know the fact that there was this kind of purported optic in Iran going around trying to guess credentials like you. Don't do that when you need it. You do it before you need it so that you're ready to roll when you actually want to do action and going round earning every municipality you know the bat would seem to be sort of preparation that you would would be responsible men this much weird. Shell hoarding going on right now. You know what I mean like everybody just trying to get access s everywhere just in case just in case it's like we cannot allow a web shell gap but it is. It's an arms race because you don't want to be the person grabbing around around trying to find a bug and get a foothold on fish. Someone when you're in the middle of heightened tensions you WanNa repaid and just you just like the Americans they're all everybody's business and just ready to win when it's go time right there just going to turn the powerful turn the water off. Whatever whatever thing they decided to proportional legal allure of armed conflicts appropriate response? I'm sure uh-huh and then it's going to do it. They're not going to mess around with checkpoint bucks. Yeah you don't need to at that point right now because you're already there. You're already there now. We got a headline here from from Dan. Goodin overdose Technica which says Georgia election serve. It was vulnerable to shell shock and may have been hacked. I guess the thing that makes it perhaps a little bit less interesting interesting is that was vulnerable and possibly earned through. Shell shock about two months after show. Shock was disclosed in two thousand fourteen. which you know? It's not like it was owned last week. With Shell Shock. But can you walk us through this one. Yes so a story here is that you know there was a box Vulnerable the shell shock owned and then at some point later on in the process Some people who are investigating the outcomes of the elections there did some an official information that requests they called the US To try and get access a to the disk and some of the data from it to look into the compromise. Those discussed vape like two days after that request happened. And then I've been trying to kind of recover a part of the story and the story story about the new things getting around by shell shock and a couple of months after it was passed but it doesn't seem super unreasonable. And then there's also some dropbox got only like a year a year a couple of years off to uh that particular dribble getting bug went past but overall just kind of feels like people finding what they're looking for him and a whole lot of things got hold of owned with the whole of the bugs in Shell Shock. A A lot of things happened to get shell shock. San Withdrew bogs in the fact that one of them's election server complement are involved in that at a university where it was in Georgia doesn't seem you no statistically improbable way means anything for an election point of view. It doesn't seem like how people would actually practically collections are just kind of feels like because it conflicted now. This next pace is probably the one that I found the most interesting this week. Actually which is visa. The Credit Card Company is now working on approaches to so you make major cart attacks kind of redundant by moving towards aggressive tokenism. Click to buy things like that. So that may JR crews bruce can't collect the type of information that they making money out of. I mean you know. These are should've done this five to ten years ago right So what. What we're seeing here is simulation long-overdue innovation and change that is being brought on by age cruise so way to go criminals? Yeah I mean this is the kind of the natural life cycle of this sort of payments industry. Security person doesn't end when pizza idea is to stop. TJ maxx getting earned in two thousand seven. Um uh-huh you know people who are doing compliance now dealing with problems from you know thirteen fourteen years ago and now we're seeing a visa to come up with techniques to deal with you know how modern financial crime I am works and the approaches suggesting a good. It's going to take a while. Obviously we'd like to see that kind of gap get a little bit closer in time. You know the fact that that dealing with got only a couple of years after it became fashionable any better than the time line on PC ideas you know dealing with sorts of things it does to deal with fifteen year ago purchase. Are you. You know it's good. It's an improvement. Well it is it is and it's also going to lead to better use a better user experience of buying stuff on the Internet. You know like I think it's going to be a very good thing for visas business standing and I just don't understand why it's taken this sort of porridge to bring it about. Yeah but I guess that's companies that are essentially well not monopolise. But they're in a pretty comfortable position. They tend to get a little bit lazy. Sorry for whatever reason this is good would bring on the innovation. What have we got here? Serious bugs in some wordpress plug INS on four hundred thousand sites. I mean this is what we're seeing these days isn't it. It seems like I mean while all. They're still bugs in wordpress core. It seems to be that the popular plug into how people are getting their wordpress blogs owned. Yeah and I'm GonNa make sense to go. Look up the supply chains nine. You know look at. WHO's getting what plugs wear stopped by numbers and then focus your research looking for bugs through there so I mean these are half a million wordpress blogs? That's not too bad you'll get a few things out of that. I don't know that it's particularly glamorous hacking it's an honest day's crime now we're GONNA story from Forbes saying hey you know the FBI managed to get data out of a locked walked off earn eleven. Pro Max sorry. Why is it kicking up a stink about the pensacola gunman's locked older phone? This seems to be a bit of a discussion and happening right now. About the hall encryption debate which is people saying hey look they're out the potty tools that can be of assistance law enforcement they already have these tools also. Why are they actually looking to start this all up again? I don't know that I'm tremendously that. I say that this argument is particularly compelling impelling because it's entirely possible. Pensacola gunman could have had say a really long pass phrase it's entirely possible that maybe the the FBI doesn't want to have to rely on expensive third party tools to do the sorts of things but nonetheless these these an aspect of the debate that has been pretty pretty out VIP has been pretty prominent in the last week or so. Yeah I think the even if the tools work now and FBI very away that those tools can go away at any ticket appoint and that they also are expensive The buddy them and that capability is just gone guaranteed and they do need to. I don't want to need tools. I don't think that that's the thing they shouldn't need need And I would love to of course avalon. The other vendors cooperated with warm. We've seen the some support from government in forcing the vendors the hand and little bit there but they wanna keep the issue in the public eye and the maybe specific reasons these cases why they do need assistance. One of these funds have been damaged for example. Yelich haven't been shot or something so there may be some couldn't they couldn't get into their greg box or whatever. Yeah I just you know maybe the connectors broken rather than than the storage chip. Haven't got a bullet through it or something or maybe apple has some particular expertise. They've of need so I'm the maybe a reason here but I think in general they do. We want to keep this out in the public mind. So that there is related to the will altog- armed forces things through Joseph. Men actually just dropped the report for Roy does today as well. It said. That apple dropped a plan. Its plan to encrypt. I cloud backups off to at the FBI. kind of like had a borderline aneurysm. When apple told him that was their plan? And that story's really doing the rounds right now so it looks like perhaps a has been you know. Maybe we're finding align which is apple saying. Okay we're not GonNa Completely Mike I cloud backups on recoverable even to us and that's by Byu the line is I can imagine that it's difficult for them to really defend that that position as robustly as they would for devices that are out from you know in what physician physician that I should encrypt completely. Make Backups encrypted an unrecoverable by them. That's it more difficult position to defend. I think think that's a more difficult position for them because it's them doing it rather than the individual consumer doing it and then the boundaries a little less clear for them but on the other hand you know maybe the PR aspects. There are also people. Don't necessarily understand the cloud cyber as well as they do understand. There's a pin on my phone. I don't want to give opinions per se but it might be government relations. It might have been that they recognize that. That would be a serious collation in this battle. Yeah exactly and maybe they ought to pick pick their fights a little bit or are they going to keep the consumers. Happy that apple you know values privacy oversee as a you know one of the things I'm going to govern happy to get regulated and. Yeah they're kind of stuck in the middle and maybe they've got to give a little where it doesn't look like people are going to pay so much attention. I duNNo. I don't know what an ally cloud backup actually gets you by the way because I'm not even sure if what's that messages then recoverable directly or if you still need the device or a pass Haas phrase sign with signal like gets a little bit confusing. It's so funny right because like because apple really controls its ecosystem like it's kind of hard to know exactly what goes on with which Dada goes where and how it's protected whatever but but anyway moving on I e Baluch in China was arrested. He'd been making money from selling. VPN services that bypass the great firewall of China has been arrested in all sorts of trouble over there. Yeah which doesn't seem like a great choice of business line inside China debate during that and we have seen them cracking down on a bunch of the domestic. VPN operators there although this guy does seem to be slightly bigger fish than some of the other ones that they've further they've rounded up This guy apparently made something like one point two million. US dollars selling VPN service doing six other people. Some people a little bit less like a couple of thousand bucks. Probably we not really worth going to Chinese jail. Yeah yeah well let's see it. I'm SORTA surprised you know that the guy could operate long enough to actually make that amount of money. Right Yeah anyway this next one from cyber scoop I wanted to talk about it because I think it's an interesting sign of the Times. We've got senators in the United States. It's kind of having a little bit of a freakout about the impact of cybercrime on small to medium business and these senators have sent a letter to the small business administration. Saying saying you've got to move to protect these small businesses. Look it's great that these issues. On the agenda policymakers but it also it's it's also a bit of a tell isn't it that they think that the small business administration would actually be able to do something about I think we're at this phase where they're like. Oh God you know like look at this. Look at this problem. But they don't quite realize the scope of it yet. They not that they're going to have in actually doing something meaningful about it. Yeah I mean this is not a tractable back to pull easy problem for them rather than small businesses just when it comes to technology and specifically security is really quite straight up screwed Rodman the options terrible the gardens ends is terrible the focus of the expertise and I would question the small business administration can even secure their arm. Things encourage all of the MOM and pop businesses businesses To be able to also protect themselves from like nation state actors like around the example that they're using like it's just you know when you've got an entire economy built out of businesses says that are running out of excel spreadsheets and Microsoft access databases and also custom-built macro that's a long way from from what modern auden based practice security. Looks like and how you would solve the problem. I'm supposed to be an expert in the subject. Yeah Yeah Well Marco Rubio Ben Kaden welcome to the Thunderdome. Basically welcome to the Thunderdome. We got a Piper to talk about this week. This is Piper called shadow move ace healthy lateral movement strategy. That crossed your desk. Your actually some of your work from two thousand. Five is actually sited in this paper but tell us about it at them. Yeah this is a paper. That's going forward for the used Nix. symposium this is some research out of a bunch of people from University of Springfield Charlotte Louisiana State University and yeah. It's a movement technique using sockets stealing Sorry that you can move between systems in a neighbor convenient way you know. The network is being observed by only moving across existing like legitimate network channels off. They've been established so taking soccer. That's already running on one machine using that talk to what's already can't socket and this is a take that we have seen used in the pasta and of course you know as you mentioned ancient in my work in such collection hijacking back in two thousand five I talked about that a blackout reference. And this isn't it's kind of in a way. This is a general board original purpose technique for generically stealing sockets from other processes and then a framework for using those connections and they've done some work to demonstrate for example. You know you're running our process the sequel client talking to a sequel server. You can steal the socket from the existing sequel client pause that process. It doesn't purchase any messages coming in the SOCK. It used the soccer talked Oughta server to you know move laterally will make queries or do whatever you're trying to do and then just restart the process. Leonard keep going on the network. You don't see anything. Especially for connections weird order encrypted on the wire are for people who are running network based Originally taken or people who are trying to do you know normally based stopped looking for new connections or unusual traffic close was this is really designed to make that process much less effective for adversaries who are willing to constrain themselves to operate across channels that already Newsweek. which is a really smart approach? And it's a yeah. It's quite a good paper and yeah I I enjoyed reading it. It's nice to see you know work that I did awhile ago. Kind of turned into a much more general purpose much usable cross platform. aww Now the last thing I want to mention this week is Nicole porath. The cybersecurity report from the New York Times did an M A and interestingly enough enough we actually got to learn a little bit more about her report which was about the attacks against Peres holdings initially this attack. Sorry this report. The headline headline never things said United. That had been hacked and that the the hacks was successful seems just reading through the it seems that what what she meant by that was that uses had inputted credits into these fishing pages. Now we're not sure how they know this. My guess is either area one which was the source on the reporting pop. Shell on those boxes or you know it being a crappy fishing page riding into a clear text file. Well that was retrievable with browser right but that is a far cry from saying that the hacking attack was successful. Because there's no real definition of what success means which is my problem with the whole thing makes sense. Yeah yeah it does a very big difference from I've got my first at a Craig's to I've now leverage those for remote access reliable to I've got escalated accessing in the domain or in the apartment to I can act on my objectives. That's one end of quite quite a long path at that point. It's not unusual for fishing initial access consolidating to be a couple of days and then to spend three weeks reading checkpoint to figure out how your target whoops only the pointy at the tip of the iceberg. Right of the work. The actually have to do so. Yeah it's hard to know what this means in terms of the actual you know meaningful meaningful action in that environment by the Russians for the purpose of as alleged to to go some some employees at Barista's subsidiaries entered into some spearfishing thoughts to we have compromising information on the Biden's a few steps missing there. Yeah yea sorry. Cautioned last week's caution around that around that reporting still stands out in that he's actually eat for the week's news. Thank you so much for joining us as always we'll chat to you you again next week. Yeah thanks for panel talk to you in that. Was Adam Voire lawyer with a look at the week's security news big thanks to him for That and Just before we continue a shout out to Eddie Cornell who donated fifteen hundred bucks to the Climate Council here in Australia Korea big thanks to him for that that's really cool and and yeah I'm going to end the The old risk Biz fundraising there. It's been great. Thank you to everyone who participated really really good stuff now. It's time for this week. Sponsor interview and this week show is made possible by the way which is a sandbox based malware analyze up. You throw throw a sample into it. And it spits out all sorts of useful information it can show you various attributes about a key logger in or it's these sorts that as I mentioned at the top of the show so rather than having one of its own stuff in this sponsor slot is put forward one of its customers instead expel is managed security provider entities making heavy use of the Melwert analysis. Tyler phones is a senior detection and response analyst at expel and he joined me to talk about how they're using. VM Van Right to actually make their lives easier and he is what tyler had Deci as a managed detection and Response Company. You know a day in and day out. Some of the things that we're doing in terms of our analysis is diving into the customer environment and pulling back specifically suspicious files and you are else from that environment that help us with our analysis and one of the things that we recognized very early on here expel as we started to grow. Our service was that this was something that we were doing every day hundreds of times of day and to really kind if do that in a way where someone would have to perform manual analysis on those indicators is something that makes us kind of slows down and makes us real choppy and he knows sometimes across national was core. The results may vary depending on the setup of the analyst has in the their skills of being able to reverse a file or you know perform network analysis versus so what he does for us is allows us to have a consistent workflow that can work through as a sock as one unit that allows us to take those t t peas and put them into a sandbox. INBOX that delivers us. Data that is consistent and that's reliable and quick that are analysts can use to make better judgments while they're triaging alerts all right let me throw back a step uh-huh because he said you know when we when we bought suspicious falls and whenever I like how you flagging those suspicious falls in the first place yeah absolutely so the way in which we integrate with a lot of our clients is we hook look into our customers existing security infrastructure so whether that be a endpoint detection and Response Platform a network detection response platform of firewall. A same. We take all of that data back and we run specific queries on that data. Ease into our own rules engine. Yeah I guess I guess the reason I was asking is 'cause like most of the time I've is going to give you a pretty clear answer right so like you know. Where are these? And that's why sand boxing stuff like van ray is useful is it's for the for the edge cases for the grey areas stuff. So like you know how you. How are you finding that gray area stuff? 'cause I imagine. Is that when you get like a flag as possible from an IV or something like that likes the NFL component of ace has what we think. This is bad but we're not sure. Yeah that's a super good question so kind of the gray area that we operate in most of the time is going to be First and foremost lets us navy as an example in Abeer. Dr Alerts going to give us some basic file information some process information and tell us like. Hey we think we quarantine this this You know that's not good enough for us. Normally what we're going to have to do in order to get to the level of reporting in the level of analysis that we want you know if something executed on a host we wanna make sure that it either did execute execute and then initially answer like the hardest thing get there or what did he do wanted attempted to execute to help our customers. Get more answers answers about that data rather than just speaking to the alert itself. So you grab this suspicious. File that may or may not have executed on one of your clients forests. You throw it through the sandbox inbox. And that is that's GonNa save you a lot of time in terms of doing the manual analysis on a binary But what do you do with the output. There how does the workflow then extend beyond toned just having having thrown in advance so one of the one of the cool things that we can do with a lot of this technology is you know. Let's say we pull back some of those additional indicators once we've got into VM ray and get those indicators back of let's say that militias execute will round the host dropped these three temporary files in this directory or made these network connections and what we can do is then take those quickly back and put them into an FDR or navy console. That can tell us exactly where else in the customer's environment that this actually executed Iran. Meaning now I can understand that this was actually on five hosts in the environment versus. Maybe the one that happened to trigger the alert and that situation is very common as we do analysis also and uncovers a lot of different data that we normally wouldn't get if we were just relying on that Seoul Avia lert alone so funding the line. There's there's GonNa be some automation here. Right when you're spitting out you know various indicators after you doing this sort of analysis but you don't WanNa just automatically add had every single indicator as a detection across u haul. Customer base is going to be some manual review. So which products did you automate like which parts is still subject to menu review like. How did you manage that whole process of finding a line between what you automate and what you actually just let go through without human review? Yeah totally so ad expelled. We kind of have this this phrase round here that we use quite a bit where humans do two things really well. They exercise judgment and they manage relationships. Right so so we kind of operate. On the core premise that our analysts are going to be really good at making decisions. If they have the data to make that decision and the parts of the process that we've automated was actually we identified through kind of some metrics and things that we take on the back end. The longest part of that process was actually just acquiring that file or acquiring the the data. We needed from that environment to help us make that decision so we decided to automate. This whole process. Wasn't exactly the you know the automated reading the report in making the decision we actually wanted to be able to go and get that data. Faster from VM. Ray so that our analyst didn't have to log into that customer console requests the file comeback. Wait for it to come back and then actually put it into the Marie Causal Manually. Will we wanted to be able to do was we wanted to be able to take. Let's say the file hash of the file while name and say. Hey My restore. Have you ever actually seen this out in the wild and it might say yeah. Let's return that file. Give that back to expel automatically. Reported into VM. Reforest to kick off. So you grab you grab the Hash throwing they get the file and then put it in. Yeah absolutely absolutely. And that's I mean that's not going to work every time right because sometimes. VAT isn't going to have it but for a lot of time it will totally. You're absolutely right so the stuff that we expect to find him. V.'S GONNA be more of the commodity malware or historic indicators of more targeted compromises and things like that but there is sometimes truly those unknown files that were not going to be able to get those fall a little bit outside of this workflow but ninety ninety five percent of the stuff that we're GonNa see day today in the sock is all gonna be stuff usually that relates back to commodity mauer but nine bands. Bad stuff you don't really need to make a determination as to whether or not it's bad I'm guessing what you're using it to do at that point is strip out more indicators that you can use to then find elsewhere in an environment. Is that the thinking. Yeah absolutely so kind of our analysis workflow here to expel is we. Don't actually. We don't actually have run books for our analysts. We don't have breath play by play things that we do on each tack. We actually breakdown our analysis analysis methodology into five. Very simple questions. And that's going to be the what is it wears it. When did it get there how to get there? And how did we detect this thing right and as our analysts are doing their triage and as they're actually using VM. Ray and other tools in the environment. Their core analysis is based around answering those five questions so sometimes the dealer and things like that is going to have some of the indicators and things is to answer those questions but there's always going to be more data that we need to specifically answer some like though. Where is the questions and harder to get their questions? That may we may. Hey that put back into detections or additional queries that we run against their environment to answer those five basic investigative questions. It's funny right because you know there is similar questions for for journalism. Is it really who when we're Y.. Yeah exactly and that's that's exactly what we're basing this off of rate and for us. It's really powerful to be able to do that. Because because we integrate with a bunch of different technology that has a bunch of different consoles and things available to us so we can flow it back into those five investigative questions that's a really powerful powerful way to teach our analysts how to do forensics and not just follow processes. So the question becomes like what were you doing before you were using. VM right manual analysis of binary. And I'm guessing five. Yeah correct as far as time at expel we've always had the m right from the start you know and it was definitely used. VM Ray in the way that we would you know manly upload a file or putting url in there and start the process. You know previous to that my previous life it was. You know a lot of manual alice's inside a windows virtual machine or virtual machine tearing that part setting up the monitoring tools you needed to get those same indicators Yep Yep so I got to one of the most useful indicate is going to be pulling out out of this stuff is it. Is it really things like temples that creates that you can then go searching for like. Is there a particular set of indicators that you find more useful than others yeah really the most powerful. The things that we pull out of that is going to be first and foremost emory does a really good job of giving us a process tree. You know so basically saying yeah exactly and it's a good visual for a lot of our analysts especially some of our more junior analysts that are just starting to be able to see how an a piece of Maur actually executes on a box the indicators that come with it so we can then stripped some some of those another powerful thing that They strip out for us. That's really really useful is network connections. You know let's say we are working in a B.. Console that might not be monitoring some of those the things we can then turn those network connections back into indicators by going querying. The firewall are queering any network tech that they might have to believe you'd be looking for connections to specific if exceed two or is it more like this one usually uses a funny port like this or you know what what level you're going to with your network on the Y detections. Yeah it's kind of both So you know. First and foremost see two is a really good indicator a lot of the stuff that we look into allowed logged in with commodity our some of the specific power shell execution in back doors that we commonly see here expel is going to be. You know finding that second stage payload ehlo that delivery payload that's used as the download cradle right and then also anything after that where it attempts to reach out in download additional resources or call back to some sort of command and control servers. Yeah but I mean so. You're looking for specific. Say to write you know like look at it. Network behavior is more like the destination is known bad. Yeah exactly it's either known bad or it could be unknown bad as well right you know. It might be something where you know. No one's flagged it yet but we might see something that you know. Look suspicious to US enough to to continue to investigate like we see a lot of that domain fronting specifically One of the things that we will track down with that is we might see no execute -able all of a sudden you know Papa suspicious suspicious windows execute that then base it network connection back to a legitimate site and we might scope that back in the environment like hot. You know this particular process in their environment doesn't doesn't actually ever talk to this specific domain. That's very weird. Why is it doing this one time? Let me ask you a tangential question. They like a lot of the. CDN's eliminated divine fronting for that reason. All sorry to assist various regimes in censoring content. I'm I'm just curious like where people are domain fronting today's GP were the first ones to stop it. I think Amazon stopped at as well like like what what are the. CD-ROMS that still allowed them to mind fronting. Yeah absolutely so particularly in a lot of red team engagements that we see what our customers. There's a lot of red team still using your is a is a big one and also optimize another big. Yeah no that makes sense. I didn't realize I was still allowing doing it. 'cause some and then encrypted us in is starting to pop up everywhere as well right yes absolutely and we see a lot more of the We see a lot more of the domain fronting stuff often. You Know Red Team in penetration testing engagements you know but it is also really good indicator that was spawned from the world of AP right it. Well it's interesting because I had. I had a conversation with someone about that recently. And you know one of the reasons we were just actually asking that same question which is why. Don't you see more abt crews doing demane fronting and it's because maybe you don't want Microsoft's threat hunt team being able to squash you campaign. So that's yeah that's the way we wound up with. It is like a lot of the companies where you still can do demane fronting they. They do have threat teams. So yeah that's you don't WanNa make you see too so vulnerable to a competent team being able to squash it. That's yeah absolutely. That's a really good thing. Also it's one of those tools you know it's been around three three or four years now has a lot of those articles about it. You know there's also a lot of really good resources now especially get hub in a lot of other open source you know You Know Intelligence Belgian pools that you to kind of look and see some of the potentially frontal sites you know so it is one of those things where there is a lot of people looking into it. There's a lot of people you know putting these indicators. There's off that are very easy to cross reference right so it's not such a a novel thing anymore. It's one of those things. Run the course of years this point all right well tyler phones. Thanks for joining joining us to talk about How you're using them right In your in your sock right and in an MSP sockets It's interesting you know. Would it be the technology like this comes along and you see how various various people are using it. Some people using it to make good bad determination. Some you know some even doing that at scale Through the It was really interesting. Discussion with you to see how you're just using it to flush out indicators and use that in your workflow great chat thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me Patrick. That was telephones. EXPEL DOT IO bio they're talking about VM. Right this week sponsor you can check out. VM right at Vm. Dot Com development on VM. Rate is pretty constant. Sorry if you haven't look lightly You Might WanNa go have a fresh look big. Thanks to an rights and making this week's show as possible and that is it for this week's podcast. I do hope you've enjoyed waited until next week. I've been Patrick. Thanks for listening

US China Brazil FBI Jeff bezos analyst apple van ray NBA twitter Glenn Greenwald NFL Saudi Arabia Iran Jared Kushner Mohammed NBS Komo A. M. Adamo boiler
Nigerian Households Spent N2tn On Fuel, Electricity In 2019

Newscast - Africa

01:13 min | 7 months ago

Nigerian Households Spent N2tn On Fuel, Electricity In 2019

"You're listening to the news Are Africa Business Radio? The National Bureau of Sticks said households and Andrea spent a total of two point zero two trillion naira on feel and electricity twenty nine thousand nine the NBS set in a new report on consumption expenditure pattern. The household suspended. Schoenfeld lights accounted for eleven point. Five seven percents of the total food consumption expenditure into nineteen. The various said of the stole fifty six point. Six five percents of the total household expenditure into nine while spent on food with the balance of about forty three point. Three five percent on nonfood items according to the NBS foods consumed outside the home followed by transportation costs and starchy roots tubers and plantings sponsor for the largest proportion of household expenditure representing a combined. Twenty four point. One six percent of total household expenditure into nineteen and that was the news. At this time on Africa Business Radio you can continue to listen live online at. Www Dot Africa business radio DOT COM or a mobile APP. Thank you for listening.

NBS Africa Dot Africa National Bureau of Sticks Schoenfeld Andrea Three five percent One six percent
 Banana Disruptions

Slate Money

43:46 min | 8 months ago

Banana Disruptions

"Hello and welcome to the banana. Disruptions addition of money or guide to the business and finance news of the week. I'm Felix Salmon of IOS Emily Pakistan from huffpost. Szymanski is here from breaking news. Hello we have been disrupted while we tried to do. Our little disrupting thing by doing a special fifteen minute show on. Wednesdays but we've been disrupted by the AD market so no more Kovic owes on Wednesdays. We're GONNA talk a little bit about why that is in slate. Plus we are going to talk about disruption to supply chains. Not just in bananas but also much more importantly in toilet paper. That's coming up on this show. We are going to talk about the oil market and trump tweets. But I think we are going to start with the massive stimulus bill and the small business money that is not going out to small businesses nearly as efficiently as people had hoped that it would all of that coming up on slate money. So let's start with what is for me the centerpiece of the two trillion dollar stimulus package. Which is the three hundred fifty billion dollars that is going to small businesses much if not most of which is going to wind up going straight to the small businesses in the form of loan. Forgiveness Your Small Business. You apply for a loan. You can get two and a half months of payroll and Renton Utilities. And then as long as you keep those staff members on payroll you can get that loan forgiven so this is not a fed liquidity. Things isn't a low interest loan thing. This is basically a grenade dressed up as a loan and it's super important for keeping million small businesses in business and emily. How's that going Great Felix? It's not going great. It was supposed to start Friday but by Thursday banks were going public with their complained saying they haven't gotten enough guidance to know how to actually do this. They don't understand who qualifies. What kind of paperwork they have to do. I think banks are saying basically that they're not ready and it seems like there's a lot of confusion. Meanwhile there's a lot of pent up demand banks or saying you know thousands of businesses are GonNa want. It's pretty crazy So it's just another mess. The government tried to do something quickly and passes multi trillion dollar stimulus. But getting this urgent relief out is proving to be. I don't want to say a disaster because it's still early and we know things take time to kind of smooth out but it's kind of proving to be a mess so far so one of my friends was like. I'm going to get on the website at twelve o one. Am on Friday morning on Thursday Day night and just get my application in super quickly because she assumed that it was going to be done on. That fest confess basis. We don't know that but it looks like that might well be true In the end all if the major banks suddenly J. P. Morgan Chase and Citibank said they hadn't got the information they needed to be able to implement it There seems to be a handful of community banks who were up and running on Friday morning but no one really knows who they are. Bank of America has a place where you can apply for loans but this is super interesting. Actually if you're a small business with an account of Bank of America that's not enough. You need to have borrowed money from Bank of America so you need to have a small business loan from them or a credit card from them or some kind of line of credit or something like that. If you do all of your banking with Bank of America but your credit cards from American Express say then they won't give you the loan and so then the question is who do you go to feel alone knows and I think this is it just kind of speaks to the problem of this entire program. Which is that fundamentally. The government wants to give out grants. But I can't say it's giving out grants so it pretends it's giving out loans that are then going to through private banks but private banks aren't in the business of giving out grants banks underwrite loans and so you now have a situation with your bank. You're like well. What am I supposed to do my supposed to just? I can't just give out money to anyone. And then if a bunch of these these loans go bad and the people lay people off then will I be forgiven. I don't know you will be if your if your underwriting was good. And this is the thing which the banks are really worried about. All of these loans backed by the government. So if the loan defaults if it's not forgiven and that small business goes into default you should get your money back from. Treasury. Because that's the government guarantee. Maybe the problem is the guaranteed doesn't arrive for some unknown amount of time. Possibly days possibly weeks after you give out alone so there's into `regnum as it were like if if you if a business appliance for loan you give them alone and then the government for whatever reason doesn't give you the guarantee your then on the hook for that loan if the loan defaults you you lose money on top of that if you do get the guarantee you still have that loan on your balance sheets and you don't particularly want that loan on your balance sheet and so you would love to be able to sell that loan to someone but because the lonely has an interest rate of one percent. No one's going to pay you one hundred cents on the dollar for that loan and so you're going to lose money if you try and move that loan off your balance sheet. Yeah exactly and at the same time we want banks to be giving forbearance to a lot of the clients that they already have that they've given loans to but that those are then loans that are still on their balance sheet and then they're bringing these other loans onto their balance sheet banks have limited balance-sheet especially if you're talking about smaller banks. That would probably be the best position to deal with small businesses because they would actually know the small businesses because they're in their communities. They're going to have a very hard time doing this. And I think that's why you also have a lot of smaller community banks who aren't taking part in this because the organization was just so mismanaged. No one knows what's going on and I understand what the Treasury wants to do in terms of getting this stuff out quickly but this isn't a simple process even if they want to be. Can I ask you something? I don't understand. Why wouldn't the government just directly hand out money to people to keep their payrolls going so that's a good question? There is a decent answer for that. Basically if in order to apply for the loan you fill out a very simple form is just one page really saying. This is how much I spend on payroll this much I spent on rent. This is how much I spend on utilities. Multiply all of that two and a half months and this is how much I want in alone. Your Bank knows whether those numbers basically true because you have that bank account and use that bank account make payroll and rent and utilities. The government doesn't know that so if you were applying directly to the government for the money the government would have no way of being able to underwrite loan at all of being able to tell whether the numbers you're putting down for rent and payroll and utilities were remotely in the same ballpark pockets reality whereas your bank should be able to just take one. Look back and go. Yeah that's right. And he has the money in principal. They should be able to do that in practice. It's a lot harder and a lot of banks is Anna says Not really set up to be able to do this at scale. I I know that in Hawaii for just as one example never a lot of small businesses and there are no major banks in Hawaii like none of the major banks has has a bank. Brunch in Hawaiian led the Wyan. Lawmakers seriously worried that literally no Hawaiian manx going to be ready to disperse these loans. Before the three hundred and fifty billion dollars is used up by people on the mainland. Doesn't government no Rough INFORMATION ABOUT BUSINESSES FROM TAX filing taxes. Yeah I still don't understand. I'm sorry I wonder if it is that from what I've been hearing treasury and SBA kind of bickering with each other on this then talking with a unanimous voice but just to be clear treasury an SBA a two organizations who are deeply involved in trying to get this whole program out the door if you wanted to implement what you're talking about about the government knowing information about payrolls and rent and utilities and stuff. Then you would need to include a third agency which is the IRS. And God help you if you try and get the IRS involved. That would just be a true nightmare right. It's it's really embarrassing I mean. Do you Sorry to keep asking. Open ended questions but Some of these European countries that are paying people to stay employed. How did they do it? Could we learn anything longer term from them yet? The Denmark and New Zealand in places like that doing right and I think what you see in those countries especially in countries with prime ministers rather than presidents. Parliamentary systems is that you have much more centralized government apparatus that can do this kind of thing and New Zealand. Basically small businesses just woke up with a few thousand dollars in the bank account and it wasn't there the previous. They didn't even need to apply for it but I have no. I just cannot imagine how that would even be possible in the United States. It's also a matter of like a principal in this and it to a certain extent of why the US government is doing it this way and not another way. I think the government really wanted to. They probably much simpler way for them to do it. But part of it is for whatever reason the you know the United States just tends to want to work through the private system and while I often think that is the right thing to do I think in this instance it is in fact not the right thing to do because I do think it is just actually like on the one hand arguing with myself here on the one hand. I could understand working through the banks because they already have you know a lot of these procedures in place in terms of they make loans but on the other hand again these are actually loans so they accurately loans because you only get it forgiven if you manage to keep ninety percent of your stuff on payroll and a lot of businesses and not going to be able to do that but then the other thing is that just the banks away bank account. Sir Right if you want to pay into a bank account you need to go through. The banks somehow and and that super deep sort of relationship between the government and individual businesses bank accounts if something which is much closer in a country like New Zealand than is in America to a certain extent. I honestly think it's less about logistics and it's more about how governments understand the relationship between the public and private sector. I agree it seems crazy to me that they've structured this as a loan program when as we've been saying for the past few weeks like you just need to give everybody money so that the economy kind of hangs on while we work through a pandemic like why make it making it. This complicated is so signature America. It's it hurts me. I mean I think I think I can tell you what would happen if they did it. The other way if they just gave money to small businesses as Ron and the small business sitting that and they were closed and they had no idea the small business owners had no idea how they were going to live and or even whether they were going to reopen then the financially and economically rational thing for the small business owners to do is to just take that money and put it into that personal bank account like the whole point of this program is to keep employees on payroll so unless you can give people really really strong incentive to use this money to keep people on payroll even though. Those people aren't working right now. Then it defeats the purpose and it just goes to the owners and it doesn't go to the people that you WanNa keep on payroll so that when when the country reopens. Those businesses still have employees. Who can go straight back to work? That's the that's the deep purpose of the of the bill and if you just gave the small businesses money it wouldn't achieve that purpose. Do you see this ultimately working out then Felix. No it's I mean. This is a complete I and I. I mean I'm not saying I'm not saying that this is going to work out. I am saying that structuring it. As far as sort of contingent forgivable loan I one hundred percent understand why they implemented that structure. I do think the even with the most competent and technocratic administration in the world trying to get us a thing like this spun up in the space of one week would be an incredibly insanely difficult UK and no one thinks that this is the most competent and technocratic administration in the world so I am not at all surprised. The rollout is proving rocky. I do think that it's going to be a huge amount of luck involved in who manages to get in that first two snaffle up at three hundred fifty billion. I think a lot of people are going to wind up left out in the rain as it were waiting to be able to apply and I do think ultimately because of that there is going to be another tranche of money and the Congress is going to say well we. We ran through that three hundred and fifty billion his three hundred fifty billion. I'm hopeful about that. Who knows yeah and just to be clear? We also already have ten million people who are applying for unemployment that clearly are not going to be kept on payrolls because they're already off payrolls well money either the not getting that unemployment checks. People are getting on a regular unemployment who've applied but the unemployment on steroids that Congress put through in their third package. Were still waiting on the Labor Department's right guidance. For how that works. So it's GONNA end. That's the unemployment payments that are an extra six hundred dollars a week for people who lost their jobs because of the pandemic that hasn't happened yet because they're still writing guidance for it so it'll be like two three weeks before any of those people see any money and a lot of those people don't get normally get. Ui like people like gig workers or independent contractors part time workers. They're all waiting for their money. Also so just to be clear. The way that this system is set up is that if a small business did lay off a bunch of employees furlough. A bunch of employees and those employees were allowed to file for unemployment claims. Once the business gets this small business pilon they can go back and Rehire those employees. And say you're now back on payroll and then they will move off of unemployment onto payroll. That is the way it is designed to whether it actually winds up working that way we will have to see but the only way that loan gets forgiven is if you bring those employers back onto payroll you. It's okay to have fired them. You just need to be able to bring them back. Want to hear something. Amazing discover matches all the cash. Back you earn on your credit card at the end of your first year automatically with no limit on how much you can earn. How amazing is that in fact? It's even more amazing because of all the places where discover is accepted ninety nine percent of places in the US that take credit cards so when it comes to discover get used to hearing yes more often learn more at discover dot com slash. Yes Twenty Twenty Nielsen. Report limitations apply so on Thursday at ten thirty two. A M Donald Trump. Put out a tweet quote just spoke to my friend. Nbs of course the slate money listeners know all about NBC hold episode about him just spoke to my friend NBA Saudi Arabia who spoke with Putin of Russia. And I expect and hope that they will be cutting back approximately ten million barrels and maybe substantially more. Which if it happens will be great for the oil and gas industry that tweet I then re tweeted saying in terms of the value of assets affected. Is this the most market moving tweet of all time? The markets went bezos. Lanka's on that tweet I mean just completely insane especially after trump then followed up with a subsequent tweet saying did I say ten million I meant maybe fifteen million like just to put this in perspective. Saudi Arabia and Russia between them only produce about twenty two million barrels a day between them. And he's like yeah they're gonNA cut them by fifteen million fifteen million. No one really believed it or understood it very rapidly. Both Saudi Arabia and Russia said wait. What conversation between Putin and then bs there wasn't a conversation Putin NBS but the fact is that tweet did end up. Causing the largest rise in oil prices in history it moved trillions of dollars of the value of oil and also managed to send the stock market soaring. And so my thesis and I think this is true. It's the in terms of the dollar value of assets affected. This is the most market-moving tweet in the history of old time. So let's start before we get onto. The question of late tweets moving the market which is a very kind of sexy question. Let's start with the basic question there flake. What is going on with oil because how does one tweet send the oil market going completely bizarre this? It's my very rudimentary understanding that everyone is at home. No one's going anywhere therefore no needs any of the oil but for some reason Saudi Arabia and Russia have decided to make more oil to do more oiling. Doing Moly yes within the anti right and then that's trumpet. I thought that was good as he tweeted a few weeks ago. Gas prices are low and he tried to get everyone excited about that. Which was absurd because like I said. No one's going anywhere and now trump has decided to make other stuff because I think pompeo his secretary of state his administration has been trying to work on Saudi Arabia and Russia. And try and get them to stop doing more oil and do less oil and Saudi Arabia wants to do less oil because there have boats going around the world now filled with oil that no one wants is my very very crude understanding of the situation but trump also seems to be reverting to his old playbook where he and his dad used to like make up stuff about various companies they were going to buy or takeover deals that were about to happen and then they'd like play the stock market to make some money kind of feels like he. That's what he did yesterday with that. Tweet I don't know maybe that's conspiracy theory my head just making stuff up. I don't think this was a oh. I'M GONNA like have insider trading on the stock market. I think that's unlikely but I think that it is interesting that he is meeting with people from the oil industry on Friday so it isn't Jimmy us now by the way yeah bothering MOMS. Because if something doesn't happen on television and in this. White House that doesn't happen so he needs to get them all to run up to the White House in person. Yeah you're right. That the the main thing he seems to be worried about now is gas industry in the United States where that his been wiped out basically by the low oil prices just no economic to produce American oil at these prices. Although to be clear this is actually part of the issue. That trump is going to continue to have it both Russia and Saudi Arabia is that I think there's going to be understanding that's going to be okay if we're gonNA production what about your shale guys but that's a lot harder a because the. Us government has control over shale and also. Yes right now. It essentially is economically unlike. They're losing money by pumping oil. However if I'm a show producer and I have a tremendous amount of debt that I need to service I need liquidity which means I will keep pumping so I can get cash so I can pay that dead even if I'm actually losing money long-term is boy. There's there's actually an even more fundamental reason why American producers and not cutting production which is that. It is very expensive to cap a well It costs a lot of money to stop producing oil. And you damage the well when you do that. And the amount of oil that you wind up getting out of the well goes down significantly if you stop production. It's not like a water. Well whereas you can just stop taking water out of the well and then like the war visiting there in the ground and you can just wait for the price of oil to back up and then start taking it out of the ground and it doesn't work like that once. A well is pumping you. You really want to keep that. Well pumping no matter. What because stopping it from pumping is extremely expensive. So that's one of the reasons. Why global oil production is not going down as a result of the slump in demand the slump in demand is massive has on the order of twenty million barrels. A day his Really cool way of thinking about it that I hadn't thought about the way that we are fighting. The virus is Bhai stopping moving. We are all just staying at home and the number one job of oil is to move people you put it in your car. You put it in your planes you put it in you know and it moves people around so the first thing vic gets hit when the global economy stops moving is oil because that is the job of oil is to move people. That's why Domon foil his plans too much. I haven't gas in over a month. I don't think I don't ask. Prices are what are they gonna how much the price of a Gallon. I know how much crude is. I don't drive. I don't license like even if I wanted to get a bargain on gas. I don't have any room in my car to put the gas in like so. Let's Talk. Let's talk about the The conspiracy theory because Few months ago Bill Cohen Vanity. Fair had this whole elaborate conspiracy theory that he that trump's friends with front running his tweets and the futures market and we're making millions of dollars by knowing what he was about to tweet and everyone kind of looked at it and laughed. This was as I say. The biggest market moving tweet of old time and it really does look if you look at the oil price chart. This price of oil did start moving about five minutes before the tweet was sent. Now we are living in very volatile times and the price of oil moves for any or no reason all the time so the fact that it was moving five minutes before the tweet was sent is not prove anything but if you knew that was coming. Oh my God how much money could you have made? So what are the latter elects? You're trying to say both things at the same time isn't it? Isn't he just saying both? I think so so I mean it's hard for me. I you know like we are in the middle of an SEC. Investigation into fantasy were inside trading. This dogs and rules against inside. Trading stocks are much stricter rules against inside trading oil It's it's very hard to get prosecuted inside trading oil. I don't think it's ever been done to be honest. So I mean yeah. Opec is is a cartel and it just sits there in the world and tells him into be illegal but that doesn't stop opaque from existing. It would be very hard for I honestly just because of the size of this market. We're talking about. I just think it would be very hard for the conspiracy theory here to actually work. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's close. I mean it'd be very easy right. If you knew the tweet was coming it would be the easiest thing in the world to go long oil futures and make a ton of money that wouldn't like logistically speaking. It's easy the only thing is like knowing that the tweets is coming right. The you're saying there was enough volume. That was actually moving the price before. There's always huge amounts. It's one thing if you of course don't but I'm saying that like I understand that if want obviously once the tweet happens if you bought beforehand. You're going to do exceptionally well because clearly you bought at a price. It's much higher price that make sense but I guess I'm just saying if if you're saying that people were buying beforehand and they were buying with enough volume to significantly to to move the price in advance of this. I guess I who. Who's doing that any idea? I mean wouldn't even needs to be Americans right like it could have been just NBS by because because even if NBS didn't talk to Putin and it looks like NBS didn't talk to Putin it does seem to NBS did talk to trump NBS talks. Trump makes a bunch of noises on that phone call about cutting production. There's no rules against NBS playing futures market in oil. And then if he's if he's like I'm just going to buy a whole bunch of oil futures In the hope and expectation that trump is going to come out and do a crazy tweet. Like that's actually. I don't even think that's illegal right. That's actually but it also would seem unlikely that he would know exactly five minutes or so before trump was going to send out his tweet that this is like it's not impossible. I just feel like it's it's it's probably unlikely and I think this is just trump being stupid. And the market's moving. I think it is trump trying to move the markets though like. Isn't it yes? Yeah I agree with you on that. Yeah he now that I agree with you one. He Franklin's which is just bizarre when you think about it. Yeah that was little happened on Thursday. After six point six million people the unemployment rolls in one week and that sent the stock market. Maybe down a little bit because I mean apparently that was priced in but then the minute that the trump tweet comes out. Stock Market Goes Up. Yea well done. Mr Trump saved us. It does seem like that's what he that's all. He's good for like trying to move the stock market with its tweets. He's like this'll help. This will help the economy. I know what to do. I won't fix with small business thing or anything like that but I'll do a tweet. Yummy twenty twenty. This we are support for today's episode comes from Progressive Insurance Fun fact progressive customers qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up for progressive auto insurance discounts for things like enrolling an automatic payments ensuring more than one car going paperless and of course being a safe driver plus customers who bundle their auto with home or at renters insurance. Save an average of twelve percent on their auto. There are so many ways to save when you switch and once you're a customer with progressive you get unmatched claim service with twenty four seven support online or by phone. It's no wonder why more than twenty million drivers trust progressive and why they've recently climbed to the third largest auto insurer in the country get a quote online at Progressive Dot Com in as little as five minutes and see how much you could be saving auto insurance from Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Home and Renter's insurance not available in all states provided and service by affiliated and third party insurers discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations Emily how toilet paper situation in Westchester. We are sitting pretty here in Westchester Felix. We subscribe to toilet paper on Amazon. You have subscription. Tell me what is what is more expensive at toilet paper subscription times subscription. And can you use the times instead of no because we're on septic and I don't know the answer because it's on subscription and no one's looked at how much we're spending on toilet paper in a while. I'm very lucky person. I suppose so. We haven't struggled in the new reality of toilet paper shortages. But soon you're asking me because you read the Brilliant Will Ramos Keys on Toilet Paper Felix. We Miss Ramos at slate. He's now disappeared off to medium somewhere and he has come up with this theory. After we've all been told for weeks there is no toilet paper shortage. There's just a whole bunch of irrational hoarding. And that's why the supermarket shelves are empty of Toilet Paper. He is now. Come out with this. Really quite compelling theory that there is a toilet paper shortage and there's no real way of fixing the toilet paper shortage and Emily. What are we going to do? His theory is so brilliant and it is it just seems so correct that I can't believe it took this long for someone to figure this out. Were all at home so much more than we used to be. And we're using the bathroom here in our home so much more so obviously we all need more toilet paper. No one's in the office using the office paper in starbucks using starbucks toilet paper so according to will Americans at home are using like forty percent more toilet paper so adu- were all out of toilet. Paper will accept me because I and but then the businesses aren't buying it so if you're talking about the the global amount of toilet paper that is being used by the population if I'm regardless of where. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm using the same amount of toilet paper. Okay so thank you so much for asking that question because that is the best question. You could possibly have us because there is a very very good reason why that doesn't work that way emily. What is the good reason? Well it's two words you've heard before supply chain. There are two supply chains of toilet paper in the world. There's the commercial toilet paper supply chain and the residential toilet paper supply chain. And they're two different streams sorry of toilet paper so like if the commercial ones using the commercial toilet paper. It's not like I can just go and buy it and have it in my home. It's like that just builds up separately from the home use toilet paper. Which is all different suppliers? Different buyers different producers. And you can't cross the streams don't cross Anna so you can have of residential kind but not the commercial so for instance Anna I i. It's been a little while since I worked at Thomson Reuters As I recall the bathrooms at Thomson Reuters Like many corporate buttons and the Toilet Paper Dispense is very large and they have these like four foot wide or three-foot way big toilet paper. Dispense the things these massive rolls of toilet paper which kind of crappy toilet paper and that's what you're stuck with in the bathrooms. That's not what people buy a whole this. This makes total sense. I'm wondering though if if I say this because in my particular neighborhood there is so much toilet paper at the grocery stores or move to Brooklyn Rather Koshi Stars. I'm talking about but what I've been there in the last week. I'm like they literally have mountains of toilet paper stacked in different places however it is very low-quality toilet paper. We're not talking about Nice stuff here so I'm like wondering if you're getting shipments moved from I don't know but I'm just saying that I get what you're saying but that's also not what I'm seeing on the ground and I do think that there is a bigger story hit because similar things have been said about food that there are two very different supply chains as the individual supply chain into supermarkets. Where for food? The People Cook at home and then as the institutional supply-chain sending food to restaurants and fast food joints. And you again. You can't redirect all of those beggars from Donald's into Westchester homes and this is actually causing food shortages. So just my local butcher was setup is a kind of an equivalent of a restaurant basically with his Fisher plan and fish supply. Just stop playing fish. They like the way we while businesswoman by supplying restaurants and now all of our restaurants have closed and so we're closing too and so I couldn't even by fish from my budget because because they weren't getting fish because deficit was part of the restaurant supply chain and not part of the individual supply chain. And I think this thing of like two parallel very different supply chains and making it very different across those streams. It doesn't just apply to toilet paper. I think you're totally right about that. And I will also say this continues antidotes here because same at my grocery stores though. The price of groceries has increased so much in to the point of like. I didn't I didn't I normally don't look so much like the prices on the things because I'm like whatever they cost what the cost. It was literally like twice as much so I think that yes I mean I do think that clearly there an unfair enough look the grocery store like they should play their workers. More with the money's going but in theory is that for like Produ- so well to be fair to say like what my groceries are. Which is the price of milk has really increased and the price of almond milk trying to find again but even like things like onions like just like and like try and get flour or yeast because apparently everybody you know baking their own bread but so I mean I do definitely think we are seeing that. It's not that the products themselves don't exist in sufficient quantities. It's that the supply chains. We have set up the means by which they get to. People and businesses are that is. Yeah and it is there. I mean it's he convinced me that there is a legitimate toilet paper shortage because everyone is at home and needs more toilet paper and there isn't enough because these companies are operating on super thin margins. And they have everything calibrated just so. And meanwhile the whole economy has been totally thrown off balance. And all those calibrations are totally out of whack now and all these. He had a good example about bananas also like. There's the kind of bananas that we buy. And then the kind of bananas like restaurants and Cafeterias By and there's like banana disruptions also. I mean everything's been totally thrown out of whack having numbers around you ever number Anna. I do my number is roughly twelve percent because so carnival cruise came to market with debt issuance and it was originally being priced at around twelve percent. And I mean on the one hand you say Carnival Cruise. Why would anybody be giving them? You know like money at this point at any yield but like technically they're still an investment grade company which is questionable but they technically are. And if you're thinking you're potentially get a twelve percent yield for an investment grade company. It's kind of shocking. Can I jump in and do a cruise number myself? I was going to a different number. But since you're doing a cruise number I'm GonNa do it. Creates number two. At one percent? Which is the UK Cruise Company? Saga says that eighty one percent of its capacity increases from September. Onwards has already been filled. I have this theory which we have talked about on this show before the post grown virus life is going to look very different from the pre corona virus life and people are going to be much more reluctant to travel to being close with each other to go to Broadway shows to get on planes and certainly to get on cruise ships but apparently everyone who all of the old totally at risk of of chronic virus. Who's cruises were cancelled by saga? Just around in Brooklyn for later in the fall so maybe I'm just one hundred percent wrong about this. I actually think you are wrong. Well but like I just wonder how much of it is just that at the time when they were cancelling it was far easier to just re book and I'm sure P companies like oh well you'll get a better deal if you just read book then if we totally refund you see people at the time he said okay. I'll just read book but come six months from now or you're from now. Are People actually going to go on those cruises that they just simply re booked? I think if ever these restrictions on leaving our house are lifted people are GonNa be so excited and they're an everyone's going nuts and I don't think people are GonNa be hesitant to hang out together anything. I think people are going to be so starved. Interaction that things are going to be wild. That's kind of go back and forth but I think that there is a strong argument for the. I just feel like it's hard to I really think it just depends on how long this lasts because I think people have very short memories. I think I I disagree on that. I think that so many people have now had like deeply ingrained paranoia about touching anything that anyone else's touched being near anyone and trying to stay six away from people that the idea that you know. Donald Trump can give a press conference one day and say. Hey you're allowed out of your houses again that that is in itself going to cause people to go out and start hugging each other and sharing bodily fluids like. I don't see it happening when you put it like. I just meant like go out to eat and like to the movies or something because I also feel like going because like just think about how. Many people are not following the rules as they are supposed to in terms of going out and going even going to parks going to restaurants before China. I think is like those like occasional again. Lay those occasional. Little anecdotes of people really glomming onto pictures of people who breaking the social distancing will precisely because like feeling judgmental about those people as part of how we're getting through the crisis. Those pictures are going viral. I don't think it's happening that much and I think the much much more common. Extreme is the opposite. Extreme of people like really retreating and being super paranoid but emily. What's your number in the numbers round? I forgot My number is nine million. That is the number of healthcare workers that are being left out of the paid sick leave provision in the second stimulus bill which I feel like I've been updating you guys on throughout this thing has become an incredible disappointment so the Department of Labor just put out guidelines for the for Halbe sickly will work and there was like an exemption in the law. That said you know. Emergency responders and healthcare providers may be exempted from this. They won't be allowed to have paid sick. Leave or paid family leave. If they have a kid home from school that they have to watch so okay fine but then the labor department just went wild in defining what healthcare worker is to the point. Where it's anyone who works any place that is even remotely healthcare so like a a janitor and a hospital is can't get sick leave or like a pharmacy clerk can't get sick leave or someone in medical school can't get. No one can get this sick leave. That they made a big deal about putting about enacting. Seventy five percent of workers. Don't get sick. Leave in the stupid stimulus bill. I'm actually really upset about this. It's particularly galling because who is even working outside their homes right now besides these healthcare workers who are on the frontlines of an epidemic who are most likely to get sick and then the government's supposed to be helping people stay healthy and safe and they carve out this big exemption for them. I find it very upsetting. I wrote a story about the boot. If anyone so I mean my question is do is is Is this a KAKAPO conspiracy like it? They trying to do this to save money or like what would be the sort of Malayan intent behind this. Is it just a complete cock-up I think it's a conspiracy is a very strong word? But the White House. Republicans and business groups really made a big stink about not liking putting any kind of mandate on businesses. Especially now when they're struggling now that makes sense so the government could have stepped in and said. Okay we'll pay for all this. Don't worry about it it's a mandate only in that you have to give it but we're like we'll give you money for. Don't even worry. And they did give them tax credits. I think there's just a strong dislike for this kind of policy coming from business and coming from Republicans and that's what put the Kyw Bosch on it. And they hold their. They held their nose in voted for it and then they just undercut it however they could. So Yep I think on the scale of cock-up to conspiracy we're leaning conspiracy here own which note. I think we will wrap up slate money for this week. We're going to have a slate plus segment about the hand market which is a little monkey pot of the media market which is worth talking about but fat you on else. Thanks very much for listening to slate. Money thanks very much to just mean molly fame producing. Keep the emails coming as ever sleep. Money SLATE DOT com. And we will talk to you next week. On slate money discover matches. All the cashback you earn on your credit card at the beginning of your first year. It's amazing because discovers accepted at ninety nine percent of places in the US that take credit cards learn more at discover dot com slash. Yes Twenty Twenty eight. Neilson report limitations apply.

government Donald Trump United States Emily Pakistan Anna I Saudi Arabia Bank of America Felix Salmon Putin NBS NBS White House principal banks Labor Department
Ben Hubbard: How Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman became a feared leader and cyber criminal

Recode Decode

1:02:31 hr | 9 months ago

Ben Hubbard: How Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman became a feared leader and cyber criminal

"Are you building a new website from the ground up and I mean getting really hands on with coding and hosting and all the rest of it checkout name dot com they offer dot com domains for just eighty nine thousand nine and that includes free management features like DNS templates bulk actions. And everything else. You need to manage your websites. Plus new users get free privacy protection and security features right now. Our listeners can use the Promo code decode at checkout to get fifty percents off G. Suite accounts for a full year and there's no limit to the number of accounts you can sign up for. That's named Dot Com D. E. C. O. D. At checkout nationwide five. G. is here. Thanks TO T MOBILE. They just built the first largest and only nationwide five gene network in America. Nobody else comes close. T. Mobile's invested billions of dollars. That's billions with a B in New Five G. Towers and cell sites across the country making their signal more reliable both indoors and out find out more about T. mobile's nationwide five G. Network at T DASH MOBILE DOT com. That's T- dash mobile dot com capable device required coverage not available in some areas. Downlink only some uses may require certain plan or features. Ct DASH MOBILE DOT COM. Hi Swisher editor. At Large of recode. You may know me as someone who can't decide whether I'd rather go to Saudi Arabia and antagonized the crown prince or spend the rest of my life with Peter. Thiel as my roommate but in my spare time. I'm just a reporter and you're listening to Rico decode a podcast about power change in the people you need to know. Were part of the VOX media podcast network joining us today from Lebanon is Ben Hubbard the Beirut Bureau chief for The New York Times. He's also the author of a new book called. Nbs The rise to power of Mohammed bin Salman NBS is of course the crown prince of Saudi Arabia and has become a major investor in several global tech companies through Softbank's Vision Fund including Uber. He recently approved public notoriety in America in two thousand eighteen however when he was linked to the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal. Kashogi most recently. He was blamed for the hacking of Amazon. Ceo Jeff Bezos is phone. So there's a lot to talk about here not just in tech but around the world so Ben. Let's get started and welcome to rico decode. Thank you happy to be here. First of all amazing book. I have to say I was. Just this is the kind of book waiting for and And unfortunately it's viewing. During the corona virus crisis. Nonetheless is a critical book. Everybody should read if they need to understand what's happening in the Middle East which is also critical to our world right now so I want to start by talking about why you decided to write about this and and and and sort of the the steps. You did to do this because it seems like every month. There's something else that's critically important understand about this particular ruler. Well the project evolved over time. My original idea was much less controversial than I would say much less confrontational and I started covering Saudi Arabia. In two thousand thirteen under the previous monarch kept you know and so then I was already had two years of experience with the kingdom before. Nbs showed up on the scene in early. Two Thousand Fifteen and then very quickly. We realized you know this guy is unique. This is a kind of character. A kind of force that we don't see very often in the world much less than the Middle East and It was in two thousand sixteen that I you know access for journalists Saudi Arabia's always a major issue they historically have made it pretty difficult for people to get in and two thousand sixteen for various reasons. I suddenly found myself with a five year multi entry visa to Saudi Arabia. And so I started thinking. Okay well I live in Beirut Saudi Arabia's like three hour flight away I'm going to be you know if there's a visa last I can go and come and I can you know for the next five years. I should do a book because when I started writing about Saudi Arabia. I was a bit frustrated about sort of how few good books there are about Saudi society about Saudi culture and politics things like that you know. There's just not a lot written about the place compared to many other countries in the Middle East. And you know I sort of talked about that idea. There was sort of mild interest here and there maybe Saudi Arabia and then by two thousand seventeen I I would say after the sort of kidnapping enforced resignation of Saad. Hariri do the Prime Minister of Lebanon. And then the the infamous lockup at the Ritz. Both which we can talk about. If you're interested these events really sort of made everybody wake up and say holy cow like this is somebody we have not seen before and you know so basically realize no. The book needs to not be about. Saudi Arabia needs to be specifically about Mohammed bin. And people want to know who this guy is. Where did he come from? What is he up to? What are we going to expect to him? And what does he think? What does he trying to do? So that's that's when I really sort of focused in on him. So let's talk about who he is What's really interesting about this book which I don't think people realize I didn't actually and I I do cover him quite a bit. In terms of his relations with tech people sure Was that he is sort of a creature of Saudi Arabia. Most of the princes and I try to stay. Explain how he got to power very briefly? It's it's a long story but who is father is how his father got to power and then how. He's different from the other princes which I think is because he's Saudi Arabian born and bred. Essentially when I started working on this I mean I was a bit amazed at how little we knew about my and I don't mean just me but I think sort of what was in the public record about Mohammed bin. Saad man before he showed up in two thousand fifteen anywhere else in the world if you had had a force come to power like this crown prince deputy crown prince a a young Prime Minister for example or you know any and suddenly had like launched. A war launched a massive social and economic reform program for his country become the one of the sort of senior members of the Board of the State Oil Company. We would all be wondering who the heck is person. Where did they come from you and have investigative reporters going back to their hometown asking around trying to you know the first girlfriend the old friends the high school teacher first employer? What kind of what do we know about this person because it Saudi Arabia? And it's an absolute monarchy. Almost none of this happened and so for the first few years he was around. We didn't really know anything about this guy so it was something that I really felt the need to dig into for the book and I think I was able to sort of get a pretty good picture of many many Saudi prince's go abroad for education. Many many Saudi princess spend a lot of time abroad for various things for pleasure for fun you know they own properties and south of France or they properties in Mayfair in London and they go there for the summer. You know so. Many men are interesting educated outside of Saudi Arabia and there are thousands of princes correct. That yeah go ahead definitely thousands of princess and if you look inside of So anyway let's so so the story for for MB s really starts with his father son man so sad man is one of the sons of the king who founded Saudi Arabia. One thousand nine thirty two which gives him a very senior status at the twenty six right. Is that correct? It's twenty four fifths okay. All right so he's one of the one of the second generation but very low down the totem pole so he he spent most of his life as the governor of Riyadh province which is not an incredibly prestigious job but it was one that allowed him to get very good index on Saudi society. And this is really where. Nbs GETS HIS EDUCATION AND BS has a number of older half brothers who are very accomplished. One of them was the first Arab astronaut. He flew on the space shuttle Discovery. Another one has a PhD from Oxford. Other ones ran media companies. They you know one of them was part of an upset at the Kentucky Derby when he bought a horse race if you know where he bought a thoroughbred a few weeks before at won the race. I mean these are people that were out in the world. Doing things were well known. Nbs doesn't really have any of these. Were these were the first sons of the first wife. So these are the ones in line right so these these would be. Nbs older half brothers. These are the sons of settlements first wife so NBS basically doesn't do any of that. He grows up in Riyadh. He's very very close to his father. He basically shadows his father and this is his education. He works for him sort of in an unofficial capacity. While he's the governor of Riyadh. And in my estimation this is what gave him a very deep understanding of Saudi society. He you know. His father is receiving people all the time. He's the prince of this big province. Where you've got clerics coming in your business people coming in you have other members of the Royal Family coming in you've got tribal figures coming in. Nba sits there and watches. All of this and I think that game him made him very well acquainted with what. Saudi Arabia was he stays in the Kingdom for university. He gets a law degree from King's university and then instead of going abroad he goes to work for this sort of internal. It's kind of like a think tank or research body that advises the Saudi cabinet. Does that for a short period of time and then he goes back to work for his father. And that's basically it I mean you. Can you can download his resume from the various sort of Saudi government websites. And there's just kind of not allow their Intel suddenly in two thousand fifteen you know King. Abdullah the previous monarch dies King Solomon Becomes King and MBA shows up and very quickly just starts getting these massive portfolios. He's named the Minister of defense shortly after that he launches a new military intervention in Yemen. He's put the head of the board of Saudi Aramco the Saudi oil monopoly which is really the kingdom's economic crown jewel. It's the you know the the fundamental engine of the Saudi Economy and he's given oversight of it. This is kind of like that. Jared Kushner of Saudi Arabia. Right just. He's just there and he's been given these norms portfolios of power because his father was made king which nobody thought he was good. He was the brother of the king who died. Yes so he's closest to the person who now suddenly finds himself king right correct. Yes right send and some men. For whatever reason when it becomes king he decides that of all of his sons and all the other prince in the royal family could really chosen anybody that he wanted he for whatever reason chose Mohammed bin Salman. So here he is running. Things started to really active. What kind of person was? Why did he suddenly start being so active and having opinions and actions like this? Well you hear various things. I mean people who spend a lot of time with him. Say this is somebody who has tremendous self confidence. He is incredibly confident that he knows what needs to be done and that he knows how to do it. He loves foreign consultants and so from the moment that he came in he spent huge amounts of money bringing in people from pretty much every consulting firm that you can think of. You had people from booze looking at the Booz Allen which is now called strategy and I believe looking at the military you know you had McKinsey Common Boston Consulting Group pretty much. Everybody that you can think of coming in studying various parts of Saudi Economy Saudi society. What needs to change. How are we going to do it producing various reports and he just places enormous stock in these people to try to figure out what what needs to change in Saudi Arabia. And how to do it? Why CHANGE WHY? This was something we had sort of been this sort of traditional place and suddenly he wanted to come in and make it and that's why he was so well liked initially correct. Because this was the guy who was going to change everything and make it modernized Saudi Arabia because when the oil money goes away they need to have a whole new direction correct. So I think even people who don't like Mohammed bin Salman or don't like what he's done pretty much. Everybody agrees that Saudi Arabia was ripe for a change. This was a place that had been. You know sort of governed. According to you know it's ruled by a royal family as one of the few remaining absolute monarchies in the entire world it has a very close political system it has an economy that's almost entirely dependent on oil in every sector of the economy goes back to oil in some way or another social life was governed by an incredibly strict interpretation of Islam that kept men and women very segregated in public places. It's you know didn't you did not music you didn't have theater arts looked down upon. I mean it was a very you know there was this. Obviously the long-term longstanding ban on women driving. I mean this was a place that was really a lot of people I think inside and outside of Saudi Arabia felt like it was time for a change. And there's every reason to believe that that's how NBS felt that he unlike many of the elderly kings that you'd had I mean. He came in as first deputy crown prince and crown prince just thinking that this place needs to change. We can't continue to be like this. This is not the the lifestyle that I WANNA have. It's not the lifestyle. The people of my generation want to have and and the economic realities were harsh. You know we had gone from seeing oil at one hundred forty dollars a barrel and then he comes in in two thousand fifteen when the price is starting to decline and it's been you know safely below one hundred ever since now. It's what somewhere around thirty thirty five. It's much much lower than that. So you know they used to be able to do a lot of these things because they had amounts of money and so they could just sort of spended on the population and keep people happy and eventually that calculus flipped. You know you had oil. Prices were low which crunched the budget. And you have a huge population that now there's twenty. Two million Saudis about two thirds of them are underage thirty and so the old calculation just doesn't work anymore. The government cannot afford to employ all of these people. And so you know. Nba sees all this happening and says okay. We need to find a way to diversify the economy. We need more sectors oil. We need to do all these different things. Open up the society and entertainment and movie theaters and women driving and and so he really tries to jump in. And do all these things at once. And that's seen as a good thing as a first of fresh air. I recall like sort of profiles and the concepts of him. I'd been approached by a lot of Silicon Valley people. It said this guy is for real. This is really interesting. And of course he wanted find you know there had been previous Saudis. Who invested in twitter a Saudi princes Who had done that? But they were very excited about the opening of Saudi Arabia making investments there and things like that so we've seen is a breath of fresh air correct. Oh there was buzz all over the place. I mean you know there are. People are very excited about this idea. You have a number of very high profile correspondence columnist. Who went met with him? Who wrote sort of these glowing pieces about how this guy was going to change everything? You definitely had a lot of excitement and international business community. You know this guy is going to do things different and does going to open up all these new possibilities and I mean you can almost graph this I you know. Maybe we don't want to get ahead of ourselves in the story but you can almost graph this. That sort of he comes on the scene in two thousand fifteen and he kind of goes up and I think the high point is really March. Two thousand eighteen and then the decline begins. I mean I don't know if you WANNA map. Want me to mount the whole thing out. Tell me go ahead. Yeah we will in the next section but what so what happened. Why was that the high point? Well he comes so in June. Two Thousand Sixteen. He takes a trip to the United States and he goes to facebook. He meets with Mark Zuckerberg. They released photos of chatting with Marc Zuckerberg. He puts on this. Vr headset. And these photos go crazy. In Saudi Arabia's young Saudis had never seen a senior member of the Royal Family. Meet with someone like Mark Zuckerberg for one and then and then be excited about new technology. I mean this guy here. He is trying out this new headset. And we're GONNA you know. And so they sort of feel like. Wow maybe this is going to be the guy who brings us this breath of fresh air so anyway this goes on and on and on I think the peak for Mohammed bin Salman so far in March two thousand eighteen. He takes this massive massive trips. I he goes to the UK he meets with the Queen he meets with the heads. Of and I am I am I six. He goes to parliament. Meets the foreign ministry sort of meets everybody across the board is very well received and then flies the United States for this absolutely remarkable trip. He spends a number of weeks he goes to five states. Plus the District of Columbia three former presidents he meets with the sitting president in the Oval Office and he meets with everybody. Almost everybody you can think of from the Business Tech Community I mean in Manhattan. He had meets Mike Bloomberg at starbucks and they have a coffee together then he flies out to Seattle and he sees Bill Gates and he takes walk with Bill Gates and then he goes to 'em he goes to MIT. He goes to Harvard. He meets with Oprah he goes to silicon valley he visits Google he visits faithful Cubans coming goes everywhere and every and then he plays down to Hollywood of all places and you know Hollywood in a way sort of represents everything that Saudi Arabia traditionally opposed. I mean this is sort of Hollywood sort of scene entertainment libertine and everything and here you have the crown prince of Saudi Arabia going to Hollywood meeting with Bob. Iger and meeting with all these big Hollywood producers and sort of generating a lot of interest in saying listen. We WanNa bring what you have to Saudi Arabia. We want to have an entertainment industry. We want to have amusement parks. We want to start producing our own movies and very few were creating tech cities. Hey I'm he really saw this as he wanted to bring these people to Saudi Arabia. I think he sort of hope that maybe we can get facebook to open an office. It will get Amazon to open up a data center. Maybe we can get you know google to do something else. He really saw this sort of bringing these people Saudi Arabia's part of his master plan for what he wanted to change in the country and there was a tremendous amount of enthusiasm about. If I mean everybody from Bill Gates to Richard Branson to you know there were a lot of people who are willing to sit with them. And listen to him and get excited about his ideas The problem is if we want to get to this already that there were a lot of other sort of nasty things happening back home that I think people like me who were sitting in the Middle East. We're paying a lot of attention to people who were sitting on the perhaps east and west coast of the United States for not paying as much attention to we're going to get to that in a second. We're here with Ben Hubbard the author of a new book about Mohammed bin Salman called M. B. S. He's a New York Times reporter wanting to take a quick break. Now we'll be back after this. This episode is brought to you by. Blue Line Levine. Understands how hard it is to grow business especially when you're cash doesn't match your growth. They make it simple and easy to secure line of credit in as little as five minutes. So if you need some extra cash offset the cost of setting up your business restocking inventories or paying for an unexpected expense like right now. In the corona virus crisis we wind can help keep your head above water with a line of credit of up to two hundred fifty thousand dollars for listeners of the show the mine is offering a special limited time promotion one hundred dollar gift cards when you take out a loan or open a of credit with. Gluhwein GO TO GET GLUHWEIN DOT com slash decode for more details all you have to do is go to get Leviathan dot com slash decode and a fi-. It's quick easy and meaningful the help your business in as little as twenty four hours. This promotional offer is subject to terms and conditions. That can be found at jetblue mind dot com slash deco. This you're about to hear a ton about five jeep or you priority. Have you'll hear about how fast is and how it's poised to revolutionize the way we communicate but the thing you really need to know T. mobile's five G. Network covers more Americans in more cities than anyone else. Mobile's invested billions of dollars in new towers and cell sites with range. That can't be beat because T. Mobile understands that owning the latest tech. It means nothing if your network doesn't have you covered soap while other signals are getting blocked by windows and walls. T. Mobile's nationwide five G. Network is reaching more Americans wherever they are because they want people to experience it t. Mobile is a five G. Trailblazer you can be to find out. More about T. Mobile's first best. Nationwide Five G. Network at T DASH MOBILE DOT com. That's T- dash mobile dot com capable device required coverage not available in some areas. Downlink only some uses may require certain plan or features. Ct DASH DOT com. Where here with Ben Hubbard? He's a New York. Times reporter was written a tremendous book called. Nbs The rise to power of Mohammed bin. Salman for those who don't know he is he's the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. He's also been an active investor in. Us companies especially tech companies. He's also been responsible. Some really terrible things that have happened in the past couple years. And we're GonNa talk about those now ben so here. He is at the peak. He's at Google. I remember when he was there. They they they actually wanted people. Come in and be part of this. I found the whole thing ridiculous because I had been aware of the thuggish qualities of this particular Ruler and up Saudi society which had been had sort of pushed down on women and all kinds of other issues and journalists. Here he is being feted. He gives all this money to Softbank's vision fund on the world stage welcomed by the White House. President trump and jared Kushner very close. What happens well? I think a lot of these nasty things that had been going on sort of begin to catch up with them. If you WANNA move chronologically. The first was the military intervention in Yemen. And I know that it's often portrayed as the Saudi war in Yemen to. I mean if you know the war began before Saudi Arabia entered. It was originally a civil war. Basically you had sort of a scrappy militant group from the northern part of the country. Get angry about their share of the government and they stormed the capital. They took it over and You know basically started to impose their own kind of rule on on northern Yemen. The Saudis don't like them and so they get together with a number of other Arab countries they launch a military intervention and which becomes terrible. Very quickly I mean. We basically realized that the United States has been selling billions and billions of dollars in weapons to Saudi Arabia. We're talking high tech jets bombs smart bombs guidance kits. I mean pretty much everything that you can think of. They're buying from the United States and the idea was really that the Saudis would never use these things it was kind of these purchases were made as a way of underlying of sort of confirming the alliance with the United States. But nobody ever really expected they would go to war with them right and they come in. They buy their tanks. They were more than happy to sell them. And the next thing you know you have Saudi pilots who don't really have the skills to hit targets and they're dropping bombs from incredibly high up there hitting schools weddings funerals. You know the civilian death toll sort of goes off the charts and it's just becomes this really really nasty war that they're involved and so you have that rumbling. In the background to this day it's kind of gone up and down in terms of the level of the violence. But this after this many years. They're not the. Saudis are not really any closer to what they declare victory than they were when they started. So there's that at home it becomes very clear that MBA is interested in social opening. And by that I mean okay. He wants to have entertainment. He wants to have movie theaters concerts. He wants women to have more ability to move around. Loosen up the dress code they can. Mingle a bit more with men in restaurants coffee shops but he is absolutely uninterested in any kind of political liberalization. This guy is not talking about democracy. He's not talking about popular participation in government. He's not even really talking about you. Know you as a citizen being able to express yourself on how you think things are going and so you see this quite harsh. Crackdown on on anybody. Who's critical of anything that he wants to do? Their were repeated waves of arrest. We see intellectuals arrested clerics arrested activists arrested and and it really changes the mood inside Saudi Arabia where people basically realize you know if you WanNa talk about him it better be positive or you better keep yourself quite right as opposed to say president. Trump has a very similar style. Actually but he. This guy has an ability to put everybody in jail without unilaterally without any recourse one of the things I found striking was you had lubar. And other companies sort of over there at their various investment banking events that they have In Saudi Arabia and pushing the fact that women can drive remember and they were jailing. The women who had been active to to get that to happen At the same time which was a real disconnect and problem for a lot of people who are watching it at the same time. Oh Yeah of course you had you. You've had you know some of the activists who were best known for fighting for this. You know rounded up and put in prison at least one of them is still in jail on trial and you know I'm still in touch with her family and they're just basically wondering what's going to happen with the trial wins going to conclude. What is she going to be convicted of and NBA? He's had sort of this tendency for own-goals you know if you follow soccer or football as it's known outside of the United States like there's this idea of the own goal where you sort of accidentally kicked the ball into your own goal and NBA has had kind of a surprising number of these. It's like listen if you're a Saudi leader you have one chance in Saudi history to give women the right to drive like this is a PR coup. You can be the WanNa get credit for this. The United States has been pushing for this for decades. You can be the guy to do it and the next thing you do is go out and invent like arrest. A bunch of non violent activists women activists. I mean. Come on like. Couldn't you have seen that? That wasn't GonNa go over very well right and so there's a lot so anyway so then we have sort of the general crackdown at home. We have to get back to the tech stuff. We have a lot of sort of crazy tech stuff that happens I mean. Mba realized very early on that he can Marshall New Technologies to the service of his authoritarian balance. And and we see this kind of in two ways. There's I think the first batch of technologies have to do with social media monitoring and manipulation where he basically realizes that twitter is incredibly important for Saudis. And how they understand the world. I mean much more than much more than in the United States Saudis live on twitter. Everybody has a twitter account. Some people have two or three twitter account Saudis on twitter all the time and I think he he and his deputies realized that if we can shape the conversations on twitter we can actually shape the way that people understand reality. And I and I don't think I'm overstating the case. Because they spent so much time on that platform to get their news and their information. And so so you start seeing these armies of bots armies of what. I don't think our boss I think are probably paid accounts or or people who are sort of been in the service of him you know. They basically realized that even if you have a conversation happening on twitter that has you know. Thousands or tens of thousands of participants with not very many directed tweets. You can change the conversation either. You can report it as offensive and get twitter to take it down and then it goes through you. Know whatever review process. They do at twitter. But then by you know by the way has passed or you can get on there and you can sort of money. The waters people are complaining about something you can get on and put up other information. That might be true. That might be not true. That's deliberately false and just kind of change. The whole tenor of the conversation on top of that you just have the arrests of many prominent people on twitter. Which sort of sent the message to everybody else that you better watch what you say on twitter you could end up in jail and then the second packages the hacking you had I have a piece in the New York Times today actually about. Nbs is chief hacker this gentleman's name. Sudikoff on who would become quite well known later. Thanks to the murder of Jamal Kashogi. And this was a guy who brought his come up through. The report was brought in quite early worked under King Abdullah and when? Nbs comes in two thousand fifteen deputises him with finding the best tools that they can find to use technology to their advantage and so he gets in touch with hacking team which was an Italian spyware company that was selling no hacking tools and things to governments and he he basically starts experimenting with how we can use. These things in the entire picture is not clear because of the covert nature of these technologies. But looking back we've seen quite a lot now. In over May June two thousand eighteen. We now have five confirmed cases of Saudi Attemps One of them on me without that were all confirmed by citizen lab which is a group of researchers at the University of Toronto. Four Saudi activists that were targeted and actually hacked and I received an attempt on my phone that I did not click on and so we don't have any reason to believe that they actually got into my phone and right before that you had obviously the famous reported attempt on Jeff Bezos which it takes really a lot of a lot of gall to think that it's a good idea to hack the phone of one of the richest men in the world right right and there's a reason for that so let's get to. What really sort of blew this open. Which was the murder and dismemberment of Washington? Post columnist Jamal. Kashogi which every single intelligence agency has linked directly to N. B. S. And his team. The team that he sent out to deal with him. Give us the background of Jamal. Kashogi for those. Who Don't know he was. He was a columnist and he was actually somewhat close to the royal family for a long time so for the vast majority of Jim official he was part of the establishment in Saudi Arabia. He was a journalist who was seen as very close to the state. He was close to the royals. He sometimes travelled with the king and he had lived in the United States he studied did his university in Indiana and so for people like me and for many many other people who worked on Saudi Arabia before me when you had to write about Saudi Arabia. One of the first things you would do is track down. Jamal showed US phone number. And Call Them Up. Because you know when something somewhat murky would happen in the kingdom you know. Let's say that there's somebody else gets name to a new position. You don't know who this person is or Saudi. Arabia does something in Foreign Affairs. That appears to be a bit. Baffling you call up Jamal. And A he was one of the few Saudis who reliably answer his phone and be. He would tell you what's going on and he would say. Oh the king is really thinking about it this way or I think what's going on is this or what the Saudis are really interested in. This case is why and so this was you know he was this incredible sort of asset. I think to people like me who were covering Saudi Arabia but also to the kingdom because they didn't have a lot of people like him who understood the kingdom but who also understood the western media and could engage with them and try to explain what was going on. And that's the way that he was. The guy is a household name in Saudi Arabia. Before his murderer before he became a dissident. Everybody knew who jim official was and win. Mba comes in. I I write about this in book. Nbs actually saw him as an asset NBS releases his grand vision for the future of Saudi Arabia. Which is called vision? Twenty thirty and it's the sort of sprawling document that you know about the economy. We're going to diversify the economy but it's also about what we WanNa do is socialize what we want to do with entertainment. We want Saudis to exercise more. We walk in all of these different things and the day that he releases it. He hosts he kind of a reception for a number of prominent people in Saudi society. And one of them's dramatically g like NBS at that point didn't consider him and Emmy and actually considered him an asset. This is somebody that you wanted on your side. Because he's ambassador. He talks to the Western media. He writes in you know he goes on. Tv He speaks in English speaks in Arabic. And but anyway that relationship begins to sour over the next few years. Jamal becomes very critical of a lot of the authoritarian things that MBA is doing at home. The crackdowns on freedom of speech. Then one of mvs's AIDS calls Jamal and basically says you're done no more talking on Social Media. No more talking on the media no more publications and this ironically is because of Donald trump because because Jamal was one of the few Saudis Win Donald Trump won the election. Who came out and said this might be a problem for us And you had this sort of very interesting you know the Saudis. I think very much like you know most other. I think pretty much everybody else expected that Hillary Clinton was going to win and they were quite shocked. When Donald Trump one donald trump obviously had a quite storied. History of saying some you know not very nice things about Muslims and not very nice things about the Saudis themselves. I mean even during the campaign he would rail on the Saudis and he would use it as a weapon against Hillary Clinton in some of the debates the Saudis basically realized this guy one. We have to do everything to build a relationship with them and so they very quickly put together a delegation they send them to the east coast. They meet with trump business associates. They meet with political associates. They meet with jared Kushner. They come back and they write this report that basically says. Here's these guys. Are this new administration. They're not politicians. These guys are dealmakers. Their business people are interested in the bottom line. They don't really know anything about the Middle East they don't really know anything about Saudi Arabia. That the only thing that they do know about the Middle East Israel and that's kind of the only thing that they care about and so the Saudis kind of craft their approach to Donald Trump based on. That and Jamal is not with the program. Jamal sort of says you know what this guy. He said a lot of really nasty things about Muslims and he wrote a column at the time that said you know we shouldn't be afraid of trump. But we should prepare for him and basically said we need to take a cautious approach to this guy because we don't know what he's GonNa do. This is when he gets the phone call from the Royal Court. That basically says you're done you're we're we're shutting you off no more twitter nor media appearances nomar articles and he goes dark for a bit less than a year. I believe an engine malicious gone and during that time he sort of gets you know indications that if you stick around you could get arrested could travel ban you may not be able to leave Saudi Arabia. And then so. He eventually pass packed his bags and gets on an airplane and ends up Going back to You know flight to the United States where he moves into an apartment. He had bought many years before and Tyson's Corner Virginia and sets up camp and starts writing and starts writing very quickly for the Washington Post's They're critical pieces of Saudi Arabia. And the relationship sort of used to American journalism or British Journalists. Not that critical. That's what I'm saying right where people really will go to the mat and say nasty things about political figures or whatever. They're not that bad. But you know in the Saudi context to be directly talking about the Crown Prince and this way comparing him to Vladimir Putin saying that he's you know wasting time accusing him of revisionist history and the way that he talks about various parts of Saudi society. I mean these are like they were in the Saudi contest. Very harsh columns that Jamal was punching the Washington Post. We know what happens? Yeah I mean we see you know. We'll try to tell the story quickly but You know Jamal is in Washington trying to figure out what's going on. He eventually meets a young Turkish woman that he wants to marry. He proposes to her. She says yes he in order to get married in Turkey he needs to prove that he's divorced from his previous marriage which he asked to go to the Saudi consulate so he goes to the Saudi consulate. They say oh you know we're happy to see you. Why don't you come back in a few days? We'll have your document ready. And he goes back on in early November. Two thousand eighteen walks into the consulate. Never comes out and then you know over the next few weeks. Obviously the details come out the Turks Leak out the details of what happened inside. And we find that there was a team of fifteen Saudi agents who flew in that morning before he got there to intercept him and they killed them. They murdered him and and dismembered him and made his body disappear into the state. We don't know where it is and it is linked directly eventually to NBS. Well I mean I think you know the CIA assessment actually intelligence assessments using Donald. Trump is right about this when he keeps saying there is no smoking gun but what pretty much everybody else would tell. You is okay. We don't have nobody has an email or an intercept or anything of NBA saying. Go Get me this guy. Nobody has that and I don't think the CIA has it and if they do. They've kept a very well hidden but the assessment by the CIA and by pretty much everybody else by many many other intelligence agencies that the way that this guy round the kingdom. He's in charge of everything. He does. Not Delegate People this is not a country where people are big on personal initiative. Where you as sort of a mid level government intelligence official or whatever just GONNA decide. Oh I'm GONNA take this very risky operation in a foreign country and just organize it myself. It's just not the way that it happens in Saudi Arabia. So is incredibly complex operation. We haven't fifteen agents who fly in a group of them on private jets. They come in they check into hotels. They outfit the Consulate. They disable the cameras. They're prepared and ready to go like this. This wasn't something that they came up with last minute. You have another guy who's brought along because he's built like Jamal and they use them as a body double to go wander around this Danville to try to convince the world. Jamal is still alive. I mean it's like keystone cops. He's sort of level of intelligence work murderous keystone cops. Let's be clear who you know? These are these are thugs. The idea is especially because of this one man involved that this is very very close to 'em bs this group that's very close and therefore whether it's a sort of godfather like head nod or whatever this is what was meant to happen was not a you know people acting going rogue and doing this For the Crown Prince this is you know the Saudis of tried to sail this group percent to quote unquote negotiate with Jamal. They were trying to persuade him to come back to the kingdom but yeah I don't. I don't think anybody really believes that to be honest right but there has been no repercussions correct. No no real repercussions because this guy's power is only gained and recently after arrested a lot of princess. He did it again. And we're GonNa talk about that and also him hacking Jeff as his phone. Which is an astonishing thing to do I? It would be impressive. It wasn't so appalling When we get back. We're here with Ben Hubbard the author of a new book about Mohammed bin Salman called. Nbs WE'RE GONNA take a quick break. Now we'll be right back. Big Tech has made all of our lives easier. But why should we sacrifice privacy for convenience? Sure you trust the biggest technology companies deliver your toilet paper in stream. Eighteenth straight hours of a bad sitcom but to do really trust big tech to keep your private information safe. No you should not take back your digital independence and stop having to remember passwords and other personal information with Dash Lane Dash. Line makes everything you do online. Easier attracts all your passwords and protect your data in a single APP that works on all your devices dash lane auto fills every form for you including addresses and credit card payment information. You control what you share. Keep yourself safe with. Vpn and dark web monitoring and share passwords securely with friends and family start dashing through the Internet by visiting Dash Lane Dot com slash pivot to start your free trial of Dash Lane. No credit card required if you like it use the code pivot at checkout to save twenty five percent off on a premium subscription. Make the Internet better with Dash Ling Plant based is here to stay. We've got plant based milk. We've got plant based meat and now plant-based butter is becoming a thing. That's why we're excited about new country. Crock plant butter. It's dairy free and plant based but it tastes like dairy butter not to mention the plant. Butter sticks cook and bake like dairy butter too. It's got twenty five percent less saturated fat and the production of plant butter results in less than half the carbon footprint of dairy butter. Use it wherever you use dairy butter your top secret chocolate chip cookie. Recipe your morning toast. Any butter delivery system will do. And you've got a treat that's better for both you and the planet try it today. Find a store near you at country. Crock DOT com slash plant dash butter. See what all the plant based hype is about. We're here with Ben Hubbard the author of a New Book on Mohammed bin Salman called. Nbs The rise to power of Mohammed bin Salman he is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. And he's quite involved in the trump administration. He's quite involved with all kinds of Nefarious things going on recently including The recent hacking of the phone of Amazon's Jeff Bezos now. The reason for that is happening is because it's related to Jamal Kashogi correct. Then I mean I can't get inside the heads of the hackers know why they did it. I mean MBA quite complicated relationship with Jeff bezos. And if we go back to you know when I said you can kind of graph is subject to me that is sort of goes up and up highpoint is March two thousand eighteen and then I think you know Jamal. Kashogi sends it on this like drastic sort of sly roller coaster down. That sort of gets him. You know considered an international pariah at least for a while so jeff as when he took this story trip to the United States in March two thousand eighteen he met with. Jeff bezos. You know you can go online. Google Jeff Basil's Mama Bin Salman. You'll find a photo of them sitting. I think probably GONNA be a fancy hotel suites somewhere and they're sort of laughing and smiling and talking to each other and that was only three months three to march two months before he gets this text on his phone so anyway. Jeff Bezos you know from what his representatives has said he because after he met Mohammed bin Salman. They exchanged phone numbers. They used to keep in touch on WHATSAPP one day out of the Blue Jeff bezos receives this encrypted video. That has something to do with Sweden. I forget but it's a very bizarre video. And then they examined his phone and they find that after he receives this video. His phone starts leaking tremendous amounts of data. It's basically uploading lots of data from his phone to the Internet. And so his you know his investigators conclude that the video that hacked his phone and that it was NBA. Who DID IT and why? Well there's I mean there's a lot of possible reasons. Why is it related to cause Jamal Kashogi worked for the Washington Post in Jeff as this has been very critical of Saudi Arabia? More recently especially around All kinds of things including the the hacking up photos of him Texts any linked those two Saudi Arabian some wasted. There's a beginnings of a of a face off between Bazo San Saudi Arabia. There was also for a while. The Saudis Recording Amazon. They wanted them to open up. A data center Inside Saudi Arabia. I don't exactly know when the talks for that fell apart with how whether that was before after Jamal. But for whatever reason but there's no reason to think that win. That texts was sent. Nbs was I think he was still trying to court. Jeff Bezos you know I mean. This was before the big break between them. I just think he thought he could get away with it but why why why. Why do it in the first place? Yeah I mean I don't know I don't want to sort of try to play armchair psychologist or whatever but I. I do think that we have seen a pattern with. Nbs of just believing that he can do things. You know believing that he can get away with things that he should be able to get away with things that other leaders do. We didn't really see a whole lot of sort of regret after Jamal. Show jeod took him quite a long time to come out and say bear some responsibility this because it happened on my watch you know there were weeks and weeks of Saudi denial Saudi misinformation various things after it happened and and you know I mean one theory would be that. That's the way it is if you're an absolute monarch and you've been you know you're the son of King I mean you know how many times and Mohammed bin man's life has somebody told them you know like you can't do that whereas if you're me or if you're somebody else you know like yeah sometimes you fail tasks or sometimes you want to do something and you don't get accepted to that university. Well you know what we all go through. But I don't know if you're if you're Mohammed bin Salman maybe you haven't had those experiences and you think that you should be able to do whatever you want including murdering people So when he's doing this recently. The most recent thing was obviously this this price war with And also the ongoing war and then the jailing of some princes which my assumption is use the excuse of corruption but my assumption is. There's some dissent about him becoming the king of Saudi Arabia. That would be my assumption. But maybe not yeah. I don't know maybe we should break these out and talk about them separately Jones talking about the princess. You talk about the oil the princess. Let's start with the princess. So the princes. Let's just talk about who they were? I I mean there were four. Who were arrested? There was sort of only two that are sort of big names that we should really know about one is Prince Mohammad who is actually a full brother of NBS's father so he's NBA says direct uncle. So you would assume that they were quite close. There have been photos of Ahmed and Sanmen meeting at various family occasions. They seem to be getting along very well. It is known that when NBS was named Crown Prince. They have this council. Call the allegiance council of senior princes. Who sort of vote to approve. Whatever the next Lineup is going to be one of the no votes for BS. And it's been known that. He's sort of been grumbling and private circles. We hear it here and there that you know just not happy about the way things are going. And he thinks Bas rash and this and that and You know he's mostly spending his time in London and you know but so anyway. That's Super Ahmed. As the other one is Prince Mohammad Bin and this guy in a way is more interesting because he could have been a direct threat to ambience whereas I don't know if I could have Mohammed bin Nayef was the Interior Ministry of Saudi Arabia for many years and he was the counterterrorism czar. This guy is good friends with John. Brennan he's good friends with people in other people in the CIA. You know many people who have been through the National Security Council. This guy was seen as the main contact for the United States on counter-terrorism and incredibly popular in Saudi Arabia and the Mid-2000s al Qaeda declared war on Saudi Arabian started blowing up compounds in carrying out really nasty attacks. Mohammed bin is the guy who is credited with shutting down with launching the war that sort of got dismantled the al Qaeda network inside of the Kingdom and so he was very popular very popular in the West good friends in the UK. Good friends in the United States and anyway when MBA shows up in two thousand fifteen his father names Mohammed bin Nave Crown Prince. Everybody says wow. That's really that seems to be a good choice. This is a guy who's popular. He knows the West. Good track record interesting way to move from that first generation. Prince's to that next generation of princess like okay but it becomes kind of clear over time that NBS gunning for his job. Nbs BECOMES NUMBER TWO. This you know. He's the deputy crown prince so second in line to the throne various ways he kind of starts taking pieces of Mohammed bin Knaves Portfolio Way Stars. Kind of undermining him in various ways. Tries to get a foothold. In the counter-terrorism world tries to get a foothold insecurity things that any eventually in mid two thousand seventeen shoves him out of the way quite unceremoniously and becomes the crown prince since then mom had been af despite sort of his prominence in Saudi Arabia and has many friends in the West was largely under house arrest. I mean they. They basically put him in his palace. They took away a lot of his finances and they basically just kept an eye on him. And I think if you're Mohammed bin Salman and you've just done this to one of your elder cousins. You're Kinda worried that he's GonNa come back at you. I mean this is a guy who used to run the secret police. This is a guy who you know sort of used to be the one who was in charge of cracking down on the Senate side right so you know so. Nbs put them in this palace and puts them under virtual house arrest. And you know he'll start a show but family functions now and then but he's really kind of out of his network and everything and so it looks like what happened is basically Mohammed bin. Naef and got together and they were complaining about him. Yes it saying. Young man by finances are either confiscated or frozen. I don't know what this guy's doing various things the word gets back to 'EM BS so he locks them up and that's that or at least. He arrested them brought them in. Is there any dissent? Is there any dissent whatsoever? Does this guy have the place lockdown? Well I don't see much reason to think I don't see any What's the best way to say? This I think. Nbs has been very successful. Had pulling all of the various levers of power in Saudi society into his hands. So if you look at the royal family the family used to be kind of a diffuse body. You had a number of princes who were senior and had large portfolios and they had. Perhaps you know one. In charge of the National Guard. Somebody in charge of the military's somebody in charge of Foreign Affairs. And they kind of had their own little purview. An MBA has kind of gotten rid of all that everybody answers to him. He's brought in a bunch of new younger princess who answered him. And you know he's the top guy. He consolidate his power over the military. He's consolidated control over the National Guard. The intelligence services the secret police. They everything comes back to him now and so I find it. You know Saudi society. You know the only caveat is that it is a pretty murky place. It's a difficult place to really see what's going on below the surface but from where I said from all the people I've talked to. I find it very hard to believe that. There's any significant sort of group of people or network inside of Saudi Arabia. That can organize effective opposition to what he wants to do. All right so and then this price for the price of oil is extraordinarily low now. What is the result of this? Is this going to hurt him in any way? Or is it just? He gets to do what he wants. Well again you know we have sort of NBS wanting to have this international legitimacy wanting to be respected by the West and you know Jim Alpha. Shoghi happens the Saudis. You know try to sort of act like they feel bad about it. We're GONNA put some people on trial we're GONNA ASK FOR THE DEATH PENALTY. Whatever and and then there's this kind of sense that okay. Maybe they can move past it. Twenty twenty Saudi took you know now? Saudi has just taken the Presidency of the g twenty for the first time in Saudi history. So if you're Mohammed bin said man. This is a huge deal. You were just not very long ago. Sort of seen as an international pariah and now you're countries ahead of the g twenty in also twenty twenty was. I think a lot of people expected that this was a beat. The investment you a lot of people said well terrible things happen everywhere but business has to go on and and I think that for the Saudis. Twenty twenty was going to be this year. We're like we're GONNA STAND ON THE WORLD STAGE. We're GONNA show people. That were a serious player. I believe that the summit is sometime this fall. You know we're GONNA BE HOST TO THE WORLD. All these heads of state are going to be coming to. Riyadh and we're going to throw this thing and so you know. I think a lot of expected this was going to be the year that they try to sort of put some of these scandals behind them and then boom oil war and like price crashes and serious blow to the world economy and then you sort of wonder like really like was that necessary right so why well. I mean oil oil is the lifeblood of Saudi Arabia. I mean the place really has nothing without oil. I mean the whole reason. The place still exists as it exists is because they discovered oil other than that it would have been. You know. It's it's hard to know what would become but it would have been a country that probably didn't interest for the rest of the world at all and the oil price has been a difficult thing for NBA sort of. He comes in in two thousand fifteen when the price is declining and will remain safely below one hundred dollars a barrel for a long time. This opposes big problems because it crunches the state budget it makes. It gives him less money to do a lot of the reforms and things that he wants to do inside the country and anyway so he more recently wants to steal starts talking to Russia. About how are we going to keep the price up? Let's come to some kind of agreement and this had worked for a while. I mean for the last few years they had sort of considered Russia. You know at sort of defacto member of OPEC you can almost say. They were agreeing on production concert production levels just to try to keep the price up and and it was working and then you know. Nba just basically decided. We need to take more steps to get the price up. He starts making outreach to the Russians. What do we do production costs? We ought to do this do that. The Russians do mirror. I don't know we're going to think about it. Let's see they talked to them again. Well let's see and then finding the Russians say no. We're not interested in so and BS basically does exactly the opposite thing. He says okay. Well then we're going to boost production and output and we're GONNA crash the price and that's exactly what happened and here. We are so what happens from here from him. He's made so many errors. I mean. These errors are really quite massive. A war a murder. You know boxing all kinds of advantages like you said. What's it called one in the goal or you want in your own goal of some own-goal own-goal thing. He's doing this all the time. All kinds of stories I hear about him are talk about someone who super twitchy loves video. Gains doesn't have an attention span of a GNAT essentially the people who've met with them in Silicon Valley nonetheless. They continue to accept his money was wine on the Vision Fund which is money over What happens is there any repercussions for this or I don't see it in Silicon Valley. I don't see them. There's a little a- among some start ups for example or some like I don't want that Saudi money anymore do you imagine that he'll get it right at some point though he doesn't certainly deserve it Given the his behavior so far But a lot of people I know who are quite worried about his demeanor and all kinds of you know talk about his the way. He behaves away his again. His attention span is ability to understand things. The kind of people. He's that he has around him. That are weak. Obviously Week and and sort of yes men. Where do you see this going? This is the most critical country in the Middle East except for Israel. I I'd correct. I mean if if people were expecting that the murder of Jamal Hushovd you was GonNa Cause King Solomon to remove BS and send them back to you know send them out to the ranch and say oh come try somebody else. That obviously didn't happen and so if that didn't do it and all these other things didn't do it. I don't think there's any reason to believe that. The king is suddenly going to change his mind and do it and I think from what from the best information we have from the situation in Saudi Arabia. I think that there's no reason to believe that. When his father dies he's not going to become king and that he could be king for many many decades? I mean if he lives to be as old as his father is he'll be king into the two thousand sixty s so this guy is going to remain there for a very long time and I think the conversations you're talking about the Silicon Valley people are having. You're you're hearing all over the place I mean I hear it from people in the US government people in the UK government people around the Middle East and various governments. Here who are watching this guy and and wondering I think the big question everybody is asking is really. Is He learning from his mistakes does he? Sort of look at the Yemen war and all of this civilian deaths all of the money wasted and the lack of anything kind of approaching victory and say Yeah maybe we could have done that better. Does he look at the Jamaica. Shoji thing and say like wow. We really screwed that up and we really like ruined my international reputation like yeah. Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should just let the Guy Right as newspaper coms like what's the big deal you know. Does he look at sort of lock up at the Ritz? Does he look up at the kidnapping of Haredi and say wow? This really made people who were thinking about doing business in Saudi Arabia. Scratch their heads and say wow. Do I want to deal with this like do? I want to take on this amount of risk if I'M GONNA take my business to Saudi Arabia and and I mean I don't I don't know the answer but I think the big question is is he learning and does he consider these mistakes He is now thirty four years old. Which is incredibly young You know there's a possibility that he will learn from them and he will grow into being a wiser sort of more seasoned monarch. And there's also a possibility that it's just gonNa be a wild wild ride from here on out that like every year or two. There's just GONNA be like a new crazy thing that that he does that. You know tanks the world oil price or locks up more people for this or that or hack somebody else's some other famous person cell phone and we just don't really know but that's that's really the question is is he learning from these things or is he not so last question. The trump administration and NBS are quite close included. Especially Jared Kushner. They apparently have this weird special relationships close. Would that change in another administration or will it be like look? We need these guys now. As long as we need their oil and their money and we WANNA sell them. Things like weapons systems do magic changing in any administration or is this unusual. Well I think this is definitely unusual. kind of you know if if if. I had done some of these things under a Barack Obama Administration. I don't think that he would have received as much cover as he did. From the trump administration. No because I don't WanNa make it sound like the Obama Administration the Obama Administration and they still sold tens of billions of dollars in arms to Saudi Arabia while the Yemen war was going on. So I don't WanNa make it sound like Obama was really tough on. Mba Us all the time but when you look at the kind of cover that trump gave him after. The murder of Jamal showed you. It would have been very. It's difficult to imagine Obama doing the same thing. I don't want to speculate too much about future administrations but I think what it's because we don't know we don't know who it's going to be but I think it's fair to say that a that. His relationship with trump is quite exceptional and that the anger at NBS is vast inside of the US government. Probably bigger than we've seen. Maybe since I don't know I think it surpasses nine eleven because that was a different thing. Maybe it goes back to. The you know the nineteen seventies in the oil bar embargo. I wasn't really around then and so I don't know how how much anger there was. But he's dump thinks that have angered the CIA. He's somethings that have angered a lot of people at the State Department career people. He's done things that have angered people in both houses of Congress and in both parties. You know you look at the number of times that Congress people have come together to try to pass legislation to stop the arm sales to Yemen. We're not talking to. This is for once not a bipartisan. Issue of AP Republican. You know Lindsey Graham has become a huge critic of 'em bs so this is not a partisan issue and you know in the democratic before the Democratic Field. Really thin down. You had basically nobody who was going to say anything nice about MB s you know. Nobody was really going to stand up and say yes. These people are important for us and we look forward to selling arms and I could be wrong. You know I mean the US. Same Time we've been dealing with dictators for a very long time and you know it's part of the way that we do business but it is yeah. It will be surprising the first time we see say. Let's say that you know we have a Democratic president. Will THIS PERSON BE? As willing? As Donald Trump to invite Mohammed bin Salman into the Oval Office for a photo op. I duNNo. Nbs will. Will he feel comfortable coming to Pennsylvania Avenue when you might have protests are show upside holding saws and pictures of Jamaica Shoghi? He might decide to pass. He might decide that you know. That's not worth the news coverage So I think in that way were definitely were definitely in a new era in terms of the way that sort of I'd say the broader US government see Saudi Arabia and that could very well be reflected in the new administration if there is one aright should silicon valley accepting the amount of money. It is from this guy. Oh you know. I can't take that question. I'm not an opinion. I'm a report or no. I don't think they should will they? Well I think I think the interesting question is. What is the risk premium? And how does that factor into their calculation like if M B S Had? Just been the first guy that we talked about in the early part of the interview if he'd been the guy who gave women the right to drive and brought movie theaters and loosened the social codes. Then I think Silicon Valley would love this. You know they would love to go. Let's go set up a thing in NEOM. Let's go you know. Facebook's can open an office they they probably would have been more than happy to be on board with this and I think he on the city of the future. Just let's say the city it's their city of the future sooner. The future supposed to cost five hundred billion dollars going to be sort of staffed by robots and fuelled by solar power. And you know this is. This is his pie in the sky project for the future. I think that what all these companies have now is. They have a risk premium that they have to take into account that they didn't have before and everybody who thinks about it. They said Oh wow Saudi Arabia. There's a lot of money there you know. We could really make a lot of money. But do we really want it on our website that we're like in business with these guys you know as Human Rights Watch gonNA come after US or other human you know. Other activists can criticize us. Is that going to hurt our business model and other parts of the world and you know that for me is the interesting question. I mean you know. They're not just going to say we don't like Saudi Arabia. We're not GONNA do business there but for me. The more interesting question is how that affects their calculus when they're trying to decide whether it's worth getting on a plane flying. Saudi Arabia opening an office putting some money into a business or not. I just think that all of these things that he's done have made that much harder decision for these people to make than it would have been otherwise one hundred percent. You're not gonna see a tour Google anytime soon. I would imagine unlikely unlikely unlikely. And then again since you mentioned the last thing this neom project is it just a fan like Mirage hate to use a desert metaphor but is it just a mirage or is there real technology behind us. Oh I don't know we're going to have to wait and see I mean just to give a sense for what this thing is. I mean you know Mohammed bin Salman announced this in late. Two thousand seventeen surprises everybody at this investment conferences. We're going to build. This thing is going to be. You know we're going to spend five hundred billion dollars. We're GONNA have business. People write the regulations in order to encourage investment to encourage growth into converge innovation. We're going to you know It's GonNa be you know they. I mean some of the language in the documents is incredible. He basically said we're going to create a new way for humanity to live like this is not just a development project you know like a new housing development or something. I no no no. This is supposed to be like a new model for humanity. That's the way that they're thinking about it then. There was a Wall Street Journal. Got Some amazing internal documents about this. That really you know at the beginning. A lot of us like okay. Well we'll see you know. Good Luck with that Wall Street Journal. Got Some amazing documents where you know they're talking about. Nbs really wanted to have a beach with glow in the dark sand yeah and they sort of godly scientists together to figure out like wow. Is there a safe way to make low in the dark sand and I don't know if we can really do it you know he wanted to? Have you know a fake moon? That would rise over Neelam at night. That would be hoisted into the air by drones and you know Saudi wants to be won by robots and wants to have solar energy. I mean Saudi. Arabia is the world's largest oil producer. They they don't really have any history with solar energy sake. Sure they can buy these things from Barat but they don't have any history with the stuff robots. I mean. I would be surprised if you know one of the major. Saudi universities even has a robotics program. But they're not known for producing robots. So they're going to have to buy all this stuff so you don't will it turn on it but again like if he had not done all this crazy stuff that made people sort of hesitate to be associated with him and with Saudi Arabia? Neil would have been a lot easier. Now it's GonNa be really hard. It's going to be really hard to convince the people who do have those skills and who own those technologies to move to Saudi Arabia and live in this weird place out in the middle of the desert and try to build this. This sort of Saudi Arabian Xanadu right. So I don't know we'll see where it goes you know. Maybe he'll surprise us and in twenty years we'll say oh my Gods Neelam. It's amazing I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's going nowhere. I would love to have glowing sand. There's anyway you know. It reminds me of singing. All the time was the you know. He's so poor all he has his money I don't think he's going to build it and I think it's GonNa be difficult. You're right and getting technology people to go there and do this Although you know everybody has a price as they say anyway. I really recommend this book. It's a really important book to understand a critical figure. Who is not going away as you say Ben And who is going to influence all kinds of things from In the world economy including in tech and elsewhere. Nbs The rise to power Mohammed. Bin Salman by Ben Hubbard of the New York Times. I urge you read it. Thank You ben for coming on the show. Thank you very much. You can follow me on twitter at Swisher Executive Producer Eric Anderson Eric America my producer. Eric Johnson as it. Hey Hey. Es J. Ben where can people find you online and why not ban on twitter and in the New York Times and read his story today about the hacker? It's fantastic if you like this episode. Really appreciate it if you shared it with a friend and make sure to check out our other. Podcasts pivot reset recode media and land of the giants just search for them in your podcast. App of choice or tap the link in the show notes. Thanks also tour editor Joe Robbie special thanks to dub way studios and Art Chung. Thank you for listening to this episode. Recode decode. I'll be back here on Wednesday tune in then if there was a spreadable kickable. Akabono plant face butter. That was better for your body and the planet. What would you make with it but our cookies butter pie? That's the thing by the way whatever it is country crock plant butter makes it happen and bakes delicious country Crock. Plant butter is so tasty even butter lovers. Love it you can use it as a one to one substitute for dairy butter in all of your favorite recipes and enjoy it knowing it has twenty five percent less saturated fat than regular old dairy butter to try it for yourself. Use The store locator at country CROCK DOT com slash plant dash butter today.

Saudi Arabia Jamal Kashogi United States Nbs Mohammed Bin Salman Crown Prince Nba Ceo Jeff Bezos Salman NBS Bazo San Saudi Arabia Donald trump Amazon Saudi Aramco twitter Middle East Ben Hubbard Royal Family Interior Ministry of Saudi Ara Mba
The Oil Price War That Stoked the Market Freefall

The Journal.

17:23 min | 9 months ago

The Oil Price War That Stoked the Market Freefall

"This episode of the Journal is brought to you by Lincoln. Jobs WITH OVER. Six hundred and seventy five million members. Lincoln Puts Your Job Post in front of the candidates. Who Match Your Business for fifty dollars off your first job. Post go to Lincoln Dot com slash the Germano terms and conditions. Apply in your this week. The stock market plummeted losing ten percent of its value from just a week ago. The Corona virus pandemic has caused most of that market turmoil. But there's another thing that's made that pain worse. A battle over oil that sent prices into free-fall the oil market had its worst day in almost three decades. The drop was spurred by a growing oil price war as the market was already weakened by Corona virus fear. So we've got all of this piling on and there's going to be a lot of pain. What was the reaction like from Wall Street analysts and oil officials around the world? Some of the words. You don't want to repeat on a family podcast but no one had ever seen anything like it. Ken Brown is our financial enterprise editor. You saw oil prices collapse. You know causing people to lose billions of dollars investors to lose money changing dynamics for drivers for oil drillers for everything it was. You know pretty unbelievable this oil price. War couldn't have come a worse time for the global economy and the decision to set off. This war was made by one man the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammad bin Salman. Here's a guy who is sitting in. Riyadh in this kingdom and then he can turn around and basically blow up the world oil market. He wants to be in power and he is like listen. I'm the boss is nothing you can really do about it today. On the show with the world economy on the brink. Why did the crown prince start a devastating oil fight? Welcome to the Journal. Our show about money business empowered. I'm Ryan I'm Kate Linebaugh. It's Friday March thirteenth. The chain of events that sent oil prices tumbling all began with a deal to do the exact opposite back in two thousand seventeen. Saudi Arabia struck an agreement with Russia to keep oil prices. Hi this deal was particularly important to Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman because NBS as he's known had huge plans to diversify the kingdom's economy away from oil to do that. He needed a lot of money and he hoped to get some of that from the IPO of Saudi Arabia's national oil company Aramco the key to the success of that IPO was high oil prices. You Value Oil Company on how much oil it pulls out of the ground and the price that oil right and so- Aramco can pull a Lotta oil out of the ground And so it really matters the price but Saudi Arabia alone doesn't control the price it's deal with Russia. The third largest oil producer in the world was helping it keep oil prices high basically by limiting production and then in December of Twenty Nineteen Aramco. Ipo debuted how did that PEO not so good. So they had hoped to list in the biggest financial centers of the world. That hope that this would be you know. Wow there's Exxon and Shell and you know that. But the big oil company the Big Dominant Oil Company everyone noses. Aramco and what happened was global. Investors were wary of investing in a company that it's essentially run by the crown. Prince investors have no say so Saudi Arabia they ended up doing the IPO on the Saudi Arabian stock market. Which is not financial hub. It didn't make Saudi Arabia. This big global financial player like they thought it would it made them just wow Saudi Aramco's now enlisted and you could buy the shares if you want but they trade in Saudi Arabia and the World Kinda gave a shrug after the IPO. In December Russia started getting antsy. They weren't so sure anymore. About the deal. To limit production. Russia wanted to sell more oil so the Russian economy would hurt a bit by US sanctions of varying sorts. And so they were just looking for a little boost a little way to get the economy. Going a little stronger and so- Russia started push a little more to raise production and they felt like you know the global economy was good and Saudi Arabia had its IPO and we should boost production of it. We don't need to ally ourselves with Saudi Arabia anymore. Russia was just sort of pushing back. This was a big problem for Saudi Arabia. If Russia started pumping more oil sending prices down. It would hit the Saudi economy hard so Saudi Arabia needed to keep Russia on board. Starting at the beginning of the year there were discussions between the Saudis and the Russians and the Saudis knew that the Russians wanted out and they were saying well. Listen let's work it out. Maybe we can do some investing in Russia. Maybe we can help your economy offset some of the pain of the US sanctions. And then you'll keep production where it is and we'll both be happy. Saudi Arabia hoped by SWEETENING THEIR AGREEMENT. Russia would keep working with them and then according to sources NBS as his father. The king to call up Russian President Vladimir Putin to try to seal the deal to keep oil prices up. The Saudi King said he wanted to talk to Putin Putin kind of said no for awhile and then finally agreed to a conversation. It didn't go anywhere. The Russians were reluctant to negotiate on this part and so our reporting around those meetings showed Russia just backed off and said No. We're not going to do a deal right now. Let's just wait to add to that. Russia was concerned about the growing corona virus epidemic and so in February talks between the two countries stalled. All eyes were on the next time. Russia and Saudi Arabia would meet in March at a summit for OPEC the global cartel of oil producing countries but in the lead up to that summit the Crown Prince. Nbs had other concerns back at home in Saudi Arabia as all these talks are going on with Russia. Nbs is sort of having like low grade annoyances with a bunch of the members of the royal family so this is a sprawling royal family and the kingship thrown has been passed among brothers and then the what the king did was saying no actually MBA is going to be the next one and so this is a clear rival. Reframe BS and you know. He is very clear that he wants to be in charge. You know this is the heir apparent. He's protecting his throne and any threat or perceived threat is dealt with in a pretty draconian way bit Shakespearean right and according to sources one of the things that the crown prince is especially concerned about is the former crown prince his cousin Mohammed bin Ni- F. M. B. S. had replaced him in two thousand seventeen ever since. Tensions between the two have been brewing. About who would succeed the king if the king dies Mohammed bin Af one of the People? Who could challenge? Nbs for the throne for months. Nbs has been squeezing his cousin reading his home and even building a fence around his private helipad. Why did NBS feel a need to turn the screws to to show? He's the guy in charge so he's always been that way. He's always been clear that he's the guy in charge and Threats are dealt with in pretty tough ways you know you can debate right so either. He feels threatened and so he feels like he has to act either. He feels paranoid or he feels like he's coming from position of strength and he can really push these folks aside and it's impossible to know and it may be a combination of all those things I mean. Nba does want people complaining right. Nbs wants everyone to be behind him and that all came to a head last week as a delegation from Saudi Arabia began negotiating with Russia at the OPEC summit. Nbs made his most drastic move yet to consolidate power at home. So on Friday last Friday word starts to leak out that had been a bunch of detentions a bunch of prominent members of the Saudi Royal Family got hold in Mohammed bin. Nyathi was arrested. And the King's brother Ahmed Bin Abdulaziz was arrested. Another member of the Royal Family was arrested. According to our reporting a bunch of guards showed up at their houses at their palaces with masks dressed all in black from the royal court and hold these guys in and so this is pretty dramatic especially because the people they hold it in a very prominent. This doesn't happen every day And it raises all kinds of questions. People in the royal court floated the idea that there was a coup attempt or they were planning coup attempt. There's all this palace intrigue. I mean it really is Shakespearean busily sort of trying to think about. What's the right Shakespearean reference here is? Is it sort of Macbeth or hamlet? Or what what do you think I I would say? Choose your tragedy. I mean as we all know in half the Shakespearean tragedies when the king dies or the Queen dies. That's when you know things really go kabui. He's a young guy and he is asserting a lot of power and there's no one that young has been charged there in a long time they were being shown who's boss essentially coming up M. B. S. turns his attention to the global oil market and tries to show Russia. Who's in charge? This episode of the Journal is brought to you by Lincoln jobs. The perfect hire can impact your business for years to come. That's why Lincoln job screen candidates for hard and soft skills like collaboration creativity and adaptability with over six hundred and seventy five million members linked in looks beyond the work skills to put your job post in front of the people who match your business for fifty dollars off your first job. Post go to Lincoln Dot Com Slash Journal terms and conditions apply. Welcome back around the time of the arrests of MBPS's political opponents. The Crown Prince was also in touch with his brother the Oil Minister of Saudi Arabia who is in Vienna at the OPEC summit so his brother is sitting there in Vienna negotiating with some of the most powerful oil economies in the world. Trying to figure out what we're going to do with oil supply in the world and layered onto that the world economy's screeching to a halt because of corona virus. The biggest oil importer in the world is China China's economy ground to a halt in the first quarter. And then you have. Yeah this OPEC meeting where the fate of part of the world's economy is being decided and on top of all that Saudi Arabia's frayed agreement with Russia. The one that had been in place since two thousand seventeen was at a breaking point so in Vienna that day. Nba says brother was at the table with Russia. Trying to renegotiate a deal that would keep global oil prices high and so they're negotiating and the last. Saudi bargaining position is. Listen we're going to keep these production levels going for three more months so just put up with us for three more months. We'll do what we've been doing for a while and in three more months will revisit this and the Russians were not agreeing to that but that was what was on the table and then there was a phone call between NBS and his brother the oil minister where NBS said you know. Three moments isn't good enough twelve months. It was pretty clear the Russians weren't gonNA agree to three more months and NBS is saying twelve more months so NBA at home is basically squeezing. His rivals is telling people you know. You better listen to me or else. And he essentially is telling the same thing to the Russians which is listen. Not only do I want to keep production where it is now. We're going to do it for another year and basically you agree with me or not. But that's what we're doing and he phoned Putin what happened there. We'll talk to him. I mean this has been a you know an interesting thing. I mean you know these. Look these guys in some ways. They're made for each other right there. Too Strong willed autocrats and they really didn't negotiate and so the Russians. Were just not going to go along with it. And there's not really much more talking. Dan The Saudis. Come out and say well. Actually we're going to do is we're going to Jack up production if you don't WANNA play with US. We're going to take our ball and go home. And if you don't want to talk to us you don't want to do our terms we're gonNA blow up the whole system and they did this past Saturday. Saudi Arabia launched an all out price war. Saudi Arabia floods the market with oil despite waning demand. They've gone nuclear here. I'M. They did everything they could over the weekend to do and achieve the objective that we're seeing right. Now which is this plummeting price. Not only did they go into the biggest decline in oil since I nine hundred ninety one. Which was the first Gulf or when that started so it was unbelievable. This price war hit as global markets. Were already incredibly worried about the corona virus epidemic. And one of the most puzzling things about Saudi Arabia's decision is that one of the countries that could be most badly hurt by declining oil. Prices is Saudi Arabia itself. What DOES THE COLLAPSE IN OIL PRICES DUE TO THE SAUDI ECONOMY? Well so the government is a dominant force in the Saudi economy and the government basically gets its money from oil. And so it's going to be tough on. They're going to be cutting the budget cutting all the subsidies all the Saudis get and It's could potentially be painful. Why would he do that? Boy I wish I knew it asserts. His power he can do this. You can argue. He threw a fit and said fine. You know we are going to pump out a lot of oil right now even though the world doesn't want it. It's the worst possible time to be jacking up. Production we're GONNA do it and basically you guys are all screwed. The question is was there some deeper strategy behind this or was he just annoyed at the Russians and he did this crazy thing. It's hard to know but you know this was pretty dramatic. I mean he's playing havoc with you know the world's most important commodity at a usually vulnerable time in the global economy for this story. The Wall Street Journal attempted to reach the parties involved and none provided comment. Meanwhile there are no signs that this oil price war will end soon. Both sides doubled down this week on Tuesday. Russia announced. It could start pumping half a million more barrels a day and on Wednesday. Saudi Arabia hit back. Unveiling plans to boost oil production by a million barrels. A day That's offered today. Friday march thirteenth. The Journal is a CO production of guilt and the Wall Street Journal. Your Hosts Army Ryan Newton and me. Kate Lima special. Thanks to summerside. Justin check been waffle cone and Jared Malsin for their reporting on the story. We're produced by anti mintoff. Ricky Novitsky Sarah Platt Will Ruben and Rob Zip go. Our senior producer is Pierre. God Cari any row. Strasser supervising producer. Griffin Tanner is our engineer. Our Executive Producer Gerard Cole. Our theme music is by so wildly additional music. This week from Katherine Anderson Billy Libby Peter Leonard so widely and blue dot sessions fact checking by Nicole Polka. Thanks for listening to you on Monday.

Saudi Arabia Russia NBS Crown Prince OPEC Saudi Royal Family US Big Dominant Oil Company Value Oil Company the Journal
Barstool Rundown - January 22, 2020

Barstool Rundown

26:09 min | 11 months ago

Barstool Rundown - January 22, 2020

"The rundown is brought to you by Fan Fan Sports Books now live in Jersey Pennsylvania and West Virginia so sign up a fan duel dot com slash stool five hundred dollar risk-free bet there have been with us all season over here. Barstool for the advisors Next week is the Super Bowl so make sure you keep an eye on all of our social media channels. The next few days for fans will give away get registered at dot com slash stool. And you've got a gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or visit. One eight hundred gambler dot net boy out fights in we start off with the hall of fame. First of all I feel bad for Larry Walker he finally gets. Nobody gives a fuck. And nobody's talking. Come out of shots Larry Walker. I think he was very deserving shelter Larry Walker with video big fear speaking to it. They were him getting the call but it was like it was perfectly Larry Walker where it was like whole family. Kinda around Larry Walk in. Spongebob Fisher that was that was like something like like like this is one crazy sponge. That black lacks fishing. Only spongebob on it around him just drinking beers it was like it was a pretty perfectly like. That's how you going into the castle. A split screen at one point. I WANNA say Rosenthal or Yeah he was Rosenthal so it was like you know. He's sitting there all proper and it says on the like to baseball purists talking hall of fame it definitely Johnson Larry Walker then. I didn't realize I was in But obviously the big news jeeter in but not unanimous puts just is is awesome so funny I mean we've gotta was the first unanimous right correct so we're like why the hell would there be innocent. I Ah everything. He is more before last year. It's obvious not unit right. Well that's the thing is. I think the idea was that it was going to be one water heater and it turned out to be the fact that it's not jeter. I think I mean Yankee Fan. You're are Europe's at the vote. But I feel like it's almost taking away from the fact that he did get in like people are so mad at this one guys getting like satisfied. He's he's not like people talking about it he's doing attention. We don't know who did it so I think it was actually voting out of like the purity like he was just like I'm not gonNa make but he's not a hall of team you can have that he shouldn't be a unanimous famer but that doesn't make any sense because that's younger people as you hall of Famer they all say yes facto way. I agree no I I think until they make a complete overhaul of the system the way it currently is definitely was full time. He's not in the book America's a long history of writing. It's wrong so just because Ken Griffey and other people didn't get in at the time were now it's a new age of voting jeeter deserves Ericsson. You get sixty percent about seventy seventy over sixty six thousand six hundred eighty a little higher than Roger Right to ask Marty. Who's better baseball player? Barry bonds he paused. I mean that's like the Yankees yourself with this Mardi related. Sit around you know you. You don't care asteroid you get out of the old gives. It should've absurd. royds you in the Derek. JETER is the last person we should be talking about. There are so many arguments about his game. I asked who's a better baseball as poplar dirtier pause he asked why. Why did you read? Bonds was the better base play pause because it was very good very good. He was very very very good scoring fired reflecting the Cheetah everyone else to yankees comes off the Yankees have Roger Clemens. Andy Pettitte talk in the Mike. Seventy one time. I'll say if the Yankees were mentioned seventy seventy one times reports that implicated the red sox. You dumb fuck who. Who makes those decisions? Fucking Joe. Torry Tori. He's he's been busy in there just like they will mark my words Mardi when I am done with my hi investigation which is independent of the leagues and the teams investigations. The Yankees will absolutely have a penalty being handed to them. Absolutely looking good on the mets. Next terrible oh the red sox sidled so. That's a good sign. They don't wait. You're talking about Kevin Flow lucky right now going on it anyway back on track Derek. Jeter is absolutely Ho famer absolutely with the way the Paul his best shortstop on his team should be. Are you hall of Famer or not. But instead it's are you a hall of Famer. Are you a first ballot hall of Famer. Are you a unanimous hall of Famer and Derrick Jeeter deserves to be in. He deserves to be first bout and he doesn't deserve to be unanimous so he's actually one of the furthest unanimous. You could talk about his defense you you can talk about him compiling. You can talk about how everything was circumstantial. Famer you're not yes you're correct. Yes gasoline case that. He's not a hall of Famer. No He's big. I think he's if it was me. I don't know what this guy's what if there was laundry voters. What if what if all four hundred technically agreed all right what he's all famers not unanimous though so I won't vote for him I? I think that that's how I would do it. I would say right now baseball so much wide highly. Why the the the fact that every funding but I let your your either your either should changes? I agree challenge crowded balance. Obviously play a part. But Larry Walker's over the years. It was like twenty percent twenty five percent thirty percents way better. Yeah well I I also I originally. I'm my thought for fixing the system. I think that there should be a limit on how I'm giving you can get in if if tomorrow. There's like twelve immortal players eligible they also get like that would be. NFL Two or someone was saying like rivers res Brady. That's why did you lie. Everyone retires. What three getting only three quarterbacks they did the hundred year thing where they're just letting people in like like cower and all these people who get in who never were going to get in there during that year like memorial class? I mean because of this like there's only a certain amount of he will get in every year so you basically let's I think it should be unlimited people if you wanted private vote so you can't get like you can't do things contention and it shouldn't be Internet it's pass or fail. You don't know who gets ninety nine percent one hundred percent whatever because then there's no fucking around any of that I I would just make it two years like all right one year. Maybe it's fucked up and then if you get another years I don't think that kind of basketball is basketball publicans publican's I gotta keep it like You're supposed to be a certain standard. I think the best of the best of the best you get in but I think that the way they need to do. I didn't think about the idea of like we changed the way we look at the game so like ten years later might be like well this guy. Ob so like stats changing evolve. You might be like this guy actually was a lot better than we thought or. This guy wasn't as we talk. Defensive War was pretty bad some more conic his defense was what I love. Is Yankee fans. Send me the jump. Throw to prove he's a good defender like yes. Yes we very much that it was iconic bond. Yeah I mean the all star games the gold gloves the world series series the MVP world series. All that Sir circumstantial shit. Derrick jeeter played Cincinnati reds. He's still would get three thousand hits. He'd still be in the hall of fame and nobody would take. Maybe not yeah probably right around there. He's six most hits of all time because he played like twenty nine years. Alvin had contact the white sox. Save troll I getting a role in baseball twitter. I mean that's the wind shifts kiss Twist baseball twitter is maybe the worst of all graduates the worst twitter. I said if you have a name you know football in the hockey too it refers got like go hockey. Twitter was no downs. Thinks he's everything political and a little bit. NFL STARTING TO GET NFL used to be the last bastion where it was like. It's just now analytics. Critics and Lamar Jackson all on my face. There was a great interaction this weekend. I believe it was with Tyler and Sam we're tired tweets up Mike. Everyone twitter hates basketball. Yeah everyone soccer love soccer team. That was perfect and we got last night may lay the Kansas Kansas state game. One of the crazier like sports fights you'll ever see especially basketball is usually like slaps and hold me back. Acts like this was brawl city and obviously the shot with the dude about to crush the guy with the skull stool when we keep saying brawl city. I have watched the video from the floor. I haven't I have not seen the. Here's an alternate angle that maybe I haven't seen the broadcast view. I saw. I think it was probably it literally cameraman's camera but it wasn't like you know with. ESPN bottom line stuff. I did not see much of a Bra Bra. All right from the scrum. Yes I'd read. I is it a Brouhaha know. Donnie Brooks Hall. Someone needs to be knocked out. It could be yeah unconscious. She's knocked to the ground different than unconscious. Yeah but brawl needs like contact easiest. Bit was there a punch in this. Yeah I didn't see one overrated. No punches connected. I think everyone's just picturing the chair picture which was not grew. Hugh Lila mainly all right. Fine but I think even even not swing it and having that fucking hero saved that kid's life basically like I say to lives. It's the guy was about to get his head smashed and they do go to jail. I think that image and the idea that he was going to use as a weapon even though it didn't happen escalates at higher than most sports. What's brawls yeah? It's got an iconic photograph. They're pretty good but it's got an iconic picture. Yeah I'll take domino's pay attention. It wouldn't wouldn't window people seeing if there was a punch through I mean we'll just a couple of games suspension or anything. There's going to be a bigger you do enter college. I don't know that stool is GonNa make a difference. I mean that picture dropping Brennan Walker actually had a funny take it was. It was barely chair. It wasn't author light ones here. It would would have been a little bit more but it was like a band director. AC- you know doesn't really count you ever see that video of it somewhere in Asia. It's an older video which is like students. Just throwing the chairs with one kid. Yes yes it's like those like you can take them a lot you're not gonna it's not like E C W we're so yeah but it is a crazy move like that guy wasn't thinking that I just grabbed like if there was a real chair. They're gonNA try something that he was in a blind rage goal today where it was like the he got the hand touch that like that. One cell. Importantly your are you serious. If you have someone around you go and you sure that would solve so many of the world's whoever really is here about about this for a long long time school you lose college. You're done. Yeah secondhand pronounced brought to you by movement. We're about to head down onto Miami. I'm going to pop on my shades. Are Going to get my nice Miami. Watch with the whiteface out gotta be looking sharp for Super Bowl week or anywhere you live anything you do and and got to accessorize match. Shane's your wrist to your outfit The movement watches come in all sorts of different shapes sizes. Men's women's Different Bob Materials. The bands the face. The hands all of customizable and all different array of looks and styles for you all of them affordable starting at just ninety five bucks going highs only one hundred thirty so you're not going to break the bank. You got the sunglasses to match. They got new age stuff. They got flashy stuff they got. Classic looks so all the best in accessories over at movement. Right now you can join the Movement at Mt Dot Com slash rundown you get fifteen percent off plus free rushing and free returns it yourself prepare shades and the watch to match. MVM DOT com slash. Run Down fifteen percent off. I don't remember the next Estonians. NBS But my Mama Bin Salman okay. So Jeff as you're on that level with them meantime BS look like a couple times a year. NBS John's really good at like he'll like read an article a week so he can you know minister of fucking Elliott. Everyone's GonNa read one newspaper a day in bring topics book report on Zoos. Papers not me when he says he there was an episode IV vividly remember him saying saying. NBS like that was like you know totally thing yes legally yes NBS NBS. I I was like char enemy. Small Call Gashi killed this new indoor soccer league. Yeah so I. If you don't know is is murderer. And he's a billionaire Saudi prince. He was wrong murder. Oh Yeah I mean. He denies it but the rest of the British. So well this guy message. Jeff bezos on. What's APP and he sent him a meme? That was a rather wordy and long winded joke. That said something like when your girl is like the user agreement at the end of Amazon on where you just got to click. I agree something like that but the point was that it was before. bezos is a fair outed and the thought of billionaires trolling each other via text message. Imagine you're fucking NBA. That's just what does this guy fucking that though because it's like someone someone who you work with so to speak but you're not close enough to be like do you think that's funny. Yeah like in Europe you think. I thought that's what you're coming with smoking or ha ha not Anaheim. Three fakest to me. I used to hate getting the Haha but now the ha ha ha i. You're just GONNA have to one up as it got either all four or just I don't want the ha ha ha ha ha. The everyone loves amend the having. Yes ma'am those guys you can like murder people and your yes-men and we'll tell you there's still a great leader all that Shit. I'm okay with you gotTa have the buddies like that's not true love of the new store that was like NBS sending being sexist memes to Jeff bezos. And it's like oh the crowd Prince of Saudi Arabia's sexist. You don't have to use like murderer. It goes above sexes. Guys probably murder. It'd be honest a eight people killed again. I don't want to get into this. I'm scared of these guys. It's not clock awesome guy can lose nine nine billion dollars. It's still be a billionaire yet. You've from kill you. Only get one hundred is by killing the people who stopping you from getting fifty right right and I still still the clock. That he's building in the side of the mountain is a time travel device. And that's what he's building. A ten thousand year clock is we went to lake some spot on the planet planet. I think I think it's like a specific spot where there's like the polls and shit the magnetism matches up and he's building a natural. America is easy and like Gary Indiana. No I think it's like Greenland but there's something about a way to make a clock. It's like Natural Disney Battery Clinton like I think four hundred seventy million I think forty. It's tens of millions if not like over one hundred million dollars to build a clock like that is now a either an elevator space or a black hole or something. I'm not yeah. He's going with the clock to so world board. Don't even try and find this. Yeah no way. Isn't America ongoing then. I'm going to see what this fucking time travel about. I'd says the same thing that's why he's gone on the clock. I'm not talking about a clock. They're saying they're saying he's going to among it's GonNa know things it's going to revolutionize time they say our concept of time we'll be like does the sun come up in the morning and set at night. Is there sixty sixty minutes in an hour. That's time I concept is pretty fucking standard here last topic of the day. How often do you wash towels? This was a video. I think you've all business insider. They sometimes tweet. I watch every single video so annoying very legit and then they started tweeting. Weird show concept have car in Japan. This is why four bananas every videos. They're like adult. Check this out. I wake up at this time. Put Live is a weird little beat music and like the Texas like like POPs on a screen like this. Can You keep up with this navy seals workout so he does twenty squadron and it's like they have pretty compliment like. I could definitely do that but the this one was like how it was literally the tweet is. This is the way you should dry off after a shower and I was like I gotta see this pretty pretty good at thirty two. I'm going to get ahead of the curve thirty one. Let's see and it was like start top to bottom crotch in that now take crush that. Because I don't get to the bottom. I record halfway through. I also feel like my pants. My undercarriages soak oh that's saturated. It's moist that Elian given under Kerry voiced undercarriage voiced by goodness dead. It was like every other day every third day. Max is how often you should wash your towel. And that's proposh even Elliott's third right third. This Guy Terry Levinger that was washed out every other one was recommended every third day Matt. I mean you're glad he's clean shit. Hit coming out of the shower. It's just if you judge it by like Little House on the prairie standards like I'm getting it soapy and then I'm hanging up to dry. I don't know about that. I'm cleaning my towel every single time I use it like bacteria like what's the reason like it saying I'm more notes bacteria. I guess you don't get no. Don't hang up right or something like that hanging off the hanger every time but there's I love the wheels spinning in Elliot's head right now because I I couldn't I could devastate. It's like you don't wash towels more than this hormone. Want my bed this towels. It's one beach towel ripped in half you. They had one home ripped it in half now. You got a resourceful man. He's able to just have like floor towels and face towels. Most I ask our step onto tile. I use rift. There have beach towel. Dry Myself off seven nuts I usually. I'm your question Once a week once a week feels right. I don't ask John How it change. Wash your sheets. I'm sheets I. I don't know because I I actually have three pairs of sheets and I usually like the ones currently been on their little while. We're being totally honest. But like I usually I. We save up houseguests coming change. The fresh she's Oh so who put on airs where the people lead my own filth and alarms. If it wasn't for the people doing for the people do you know how many dead skin cells fascism you're l. like hair all Kelly L.. Don't stop at fucking skin cells. There's chips there's chewing tobacco. The bitter chocolate jelly beans. There's needs is non. Stop for the sleep famous please I would. I would make some meal and brings it to his bed constantly popcorn crumbs everywhere. I ache. Peach Rim rim. I only get to us about one. who had dirty laundry takes up the rest? It's just a shelf really able to trae races awesome. Yeah that's all it is. Elliot's opposed so I love ruining Alexander. One day she it's like I'm GonNa have no love it here guys. This is GonNa be great. You're going to be bitter and we thought you well all right. That's right ninety after show What Day is it? Oh Wednesday I was GONNA say Miami but nope not Miami and then we'll be down in Wednesday today South Beach Wednesdays incumbents Newsday's anything's GONNA sing well the first episode of curbing hate for them off. aww totally agreed with you. Yeah such sheep online down when they first came back and we didn't we say like it's too much when it misses. This is turning into like I'm not saying it was twenty. I laughed it was funny. They were just like seventeen story. Cheryl had to go the hospitals like this is ridiculous. uh-huh I strap in for a disappointment. The second he took a selfie stick and snap pushes it was. Let's see this. Mov Mantha Mogo. Seen fetuses magazine year old gets back with Cheryl like that was a whole season in one episode. It was too much. Ah I might have seen that our our Yelda yesterday. They said I liked the it was was married for killed for potatoes and people were yelling at me about that. I I couldn't take crazy. People League petits kill. FRY Fries French fries. I'm not turned on hold onto a housewife everywhere and fries slander. Like good. Fries are one of the most important thing has made McDonald's wooded you can't discount yes right yes the whole that whole that is a housewife. Your Baked Potato. Yes oh I love oh I made myself I self big sweet potatoes all all back

baseball Larry Walker Yankees Jeff bezos Miami jeter basketball NBS twitter Europe NFL murder America Derrick Jeeter soccer Elliot Rosenthal Larry Walk Barry bonds
Nigerian States Half-Year Internally Generated Revenue Slumps By N81bn

Newscast - Africa

02:04 min | 2 months ago

Nigerian States Half-Year Internally Generated Revenue Slumps By N81bn

"The affiliate podcast shares the stories of multifaceted Africans. One episode at a time the podcast aims to uncover the untold stories of modern and millennial. As in various parts of the world, each episode gives listeners an opportunity to learn and experience conversations that showcase who they are and global perspectives in our ever changing world fish also listen and subscribe to the Athlete podcast on spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also follow at athletes podcast all social media platforms you'll listening to the news office our on Africa Business Radio. The National Bureau of Statistics said, the total volume of internally generates revenue by thirty six states of the Federation and the Federal Capital Territory the client to six hundred, twelve, point eight, seven, billion naira, and the first half of the year compared to six. Hundred Ninety three, point nine, one, billion recorded in first half of twenty nineteen. This indicates the decline of eleven point seven percent or eighty, one, point zero, four, billion, naira year on year. The I G are at state level for half year twenty, twenty reports which was released by the NBS yesterday revenues full Second Quarter Twenty Twenty also contracted by twenty six point, five percent to two hundred and fifty nine, point seven, three, billion naira compared to three, hundred, fifty, three, point, one, four, billion, naira in first-quarter this. Agency set a total sum of one point seven, three trillion. My Real was however realized by states and first half twenty, twenty including one point one, two, trillion naira from the federation accounts allocation competency and the six, hundred, twelve, point, eight, six, billion, nine, and that was the niece others time when Africa Business Radio. You can't continue citizen life online at www dot Africa business radio that's com or via our mobile APP. I am Rachel chih-jen. Thank you for listening.

Twenty Twenty naira Africa dot Africa Rachel chih-jen spotify Federal Capital Territory National Bureau of Statistics NBS seven percent five percent
Torture report shows progress in Afghanistan, but much more needed

UN News

06:47 min | 1 year ago

Torture report shows progress in Afghanistan, but much more needed

"We'll have to be some measures taken by the government to address torture. We are seeing some Pennzoil impacts of the steps taken by the government over the last two years. But while it's good to see that. There's some progress the oval big as will torture and treatment of conflict related detainees. Still disturbingly high in the sense that one insert sorry to interrupt. But in the sense that one in three detainees six hundred plus detainees who you? Nominate contacted the UN mission in Afghanistan. One in three say, they tortured in what way would they tortured, please they were tortured principally by beachings mainly by eating with hikes in payables, including on the feet, which is very painful, but doesn't leave any mocks now in some pick your location, they were all other forms of kickback even more serious including with. Electric shocks is expensive from ceilings very hot to stress positions for extended. Periods of time. Pulling genitals reported threats of death and other forms of sexual violence. And also, a very common form in particular. Locations in panda included being suffocated, eighty the tactic digested ahead or your Walser for throats, and one common form was be covered by a blanket people sitting on Thursday and back and being also maintains except potatoes, especially the okay, so that sounds absolutely horrific. And yet, you NAMA is saying along with the office of the high commission of human rights that this is an improvement since the last report, which I think was in two thousand sixteen and do you? I started reporting on this in two thousand ten in the previous record. And if report it quite right thing debut stock and plenty time. Time is actually being some improvement in that it's disturbing wanting three and keep the down. However from thirty nine percent four out of ten in the previous two years ago. And the that in in twenty eighty there was some progress in the among those into twenty eighteen twenty seven to say because the real treatment. So yeah, I think how headline is that some progress is very long way to go. There was also at the normative and the negatives. If no in that in twenty eighteen Afghanistan exceeded the optional protocol eventually they'd still and that these why because today seventeenth today because one year since the optional protocol was exceeded to near encouraging Afghanistan too. Establish a national preventive mechanism as they're required to do. So can I just jump in Richard just to us? What is the state's ability and capacity to actually help improve this, obviously, there's a willingness to do. So, but how capable is it of actually achieving what it needs to? Yeah. All post anti-drug commissioned nationally ups yet eight legislative began store Jerry metro check, nor so they became being Orage taking some sticks at a high level it needs to do more. And they have been training have been establishment of mechanisms you've been the key agencies responsible for torture, including bagels and ESPN. She's been candidates agency, the police and the military, so they're awesome steps in the right direction to develop capacity, we have found however that what we call key procedural and other legal safeguards that'd be Parke's often failing to uphold them lose, for example, access to lawyers. I contacted the family medical screen and information of rights for detainees as well. Proper investigations to follow up when are complaints. Go turn treatment buying the perpetrators held to account or if they are the measures. They can be such serious such an serious crime, very light. And that victims are really told about progress or up of cases, which remain mainly opaque. Can I also just ask and sorta to interrupt about accountability? Because it doesn't sound like what it was certainly one of the features of the report and High Commissioner of human rights. Michelle Bachelet said there must be accountability. Otherwise, this kind of thing will never stop. But that's not particularly new messages it. So what are your main hopes having released this fifth report? A main hopes that the commitments made the normal given negative level internationally domestically actually in. Lamented in practice 'cause you're not seen enough of that yet. We we have seen some signs of accountability. Would apparently Trump people removed from positions, according to the government response to the report, but be seeing very little if any serious investigations or prosecutions still carry now a crime in this country, but many fits me to take him on accountability. At the criminal Justice never would also found that nearly all of the Chinese the report for chapter saying that the total ill-treatment stops. Once they confessed. And this kind of culture is very concerning. Confessions obtained done before share essentially worthless. And they are illegally excluded as evidence in court. And so that is another thing. Yeah. Much change needs to take place needed to use torture to obtain a confession do. Those who are perpetrating these abuses actually realized that is it a case of educating everyone in detention centers that it just went hold water in a court of law. It connected, and I think you're right -education training are absolutely necessary. That has been among standing practice of using torture to the pain confessions, and I think that making that issues unacceptable amigo country to the penal code. They have better results. I think we are starting to see better results in twenty eighteen particularly with the intelligence of the NBS and note that they have new UCF introduced better training and policies on torture. Yeah.

Afghanistan Pennzoil Afghanistan UN Michelle Bachelet NBS High Commissioner Walser ESPN Orage Parke Jerry metro Richard UCF two years thirty nine percent one year
Its Complicated: Saudis and the US, Ecuador and Julian Assange, Cats

Skimm This

13:01 min | 1 year ago

Its Complicated: Saudis and the US, Ecuador and Julian Assange, Cats

"It's Friday, April fifth. Welcome to skim this where breaking down the most complex stories of the day and giving you the context on why they matter today, we're going to get into what's happening in Saudi Arabia. The government reportedly arrested bunch of activists, including some US citizens. We'll dive into why human rights groups are in an uproar and how is connected to a vote in congress then WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange may officially overstayed. His welcome in London. We've got the details. And finally, we'll get you ready for the final four bracket is not busted. We're here to make your Friday smarter. Let's skim this. Today's episode is presented by HR block skim. This makes your evenings smarter. H and R Block makes your tax season smarter. They decode taxes like we decode the news and they've got your back. However, you choose to file. The most complicated story today is going down in Saudi Arabia. According to a Saudi human rights group this week at least eight activists were arrested there including two dual Saudi US citizens. It's just the latest roundup of activists since journalists and US resident Jamal kashogi was murdered by Saudi agents at an embassy in Turkey lost October. This news came out right after congress voted to stop helping Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen, which was seen as a rebuke to President Trump for his continued support of Saudi Arabia. There's a lot of news out there lately about Saudi Arabia, and the US is all wrapped up in it. So we're going to break down. What these latest arrests are about. And what they mean in the context of US and Saudi Arabia relations. Okay. So I the arrest that happened this week are tied to a bigger protest movement in Saudi Arabia. This all started back in two thousand seventeen when king soman started handing over more responsible. Ability to his son crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, everyone calls him M B S NBS was young and hip. He was someone born leaders felt like they could connect with he and President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner text on what's at but in the Royal palace of Saudi Arabia M B S was not there to make friends. Right after he took power. He arrested a bunch of Saudi royals military officers and businessmen and check them into the Ritz Carlton hotel in Riyadh. It wasn't a vacation. They were held there against their will last mate. Saudi officials were added again this time they arrested seventeen activists. Most of them women. Those women had been speaking out against Saudi Arabia's really sexist laws like the one that says women can't travel or marry without the permission of their male guardian like their father or husband, and they had been protesting the kingdom's ban on women driving cars by doing it. Anyway, everyone was super hyphen that ban was lifted but fixing the Saudis human rights issues wasn't as easy as just getting a license after the mass arrest some were released, but the rest were kept in jail. And now they say they're being tortured in prison. In late July. Saudi officials arrested more activists, including a woman named some are Badawi. Her brother is a former blogger who serving a ten year prison term for speaking out against the Saudi Arabian government in two thousand twelve but Dolly received an award for her women's rights work from his shell Obama and Hillary Clinton, you have demonstrated significant courage in your activism, while becoming a champion in the struggle for women's suffrage and legal rights in your country, and you are making a difference. And we thank you for that. That was seven years ago. Now Badawi is sitting in a Saudi Arabian prison awaiting trial with her fellow activists last week Saudi Arabia's surprise people by temporarily releasing three of those women ahead of their trial. People bought that hey, NBS is chilling out. But instead this week eight more people were arrested, including a US citizen. The son of one of the women who is temporarily released last week and another US citizen who's a writer and doctor and a feminist writer who's pregnant reports say these people aren't at the forefront of the women's rights movement in Saudi Arabia, but many of them have ties to the activists arrested last year. So where does the US stand in response to Saudi Arabia's human rights abuses? The US has been sending mixed messages. Congress has been slamming them, particularly in the wake of Jamal kashogi murder last October, which the CIA says NBS mortared last December the Senate unanimously agreed that B S was responsible. Here's Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, you have to be willfully blind. Not to come to the inclusion that this was orchestrated and organized by people in under the command of NBS, and that he was intricately involved in the demise of Mr. kashogi on Thursday. The house approved a Senate Bill to end US assistance of the Saudi led war in Yemen. It's a rebuke of President Trump's foreign policy related to Saudi Arabia. President Trump consider Saudi Arabia to be a key Middle East ally. The Saudis have been a reliable buyer of US weapons for things like the war in Yemen. And like we said NBS and the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner are kind of BFF's just in February Kushner went to Saudi Arabia to persuade NBS to sign onto his Middle East peace plan. And according to recent reports, the Trump administration recently and secretly authorized companies to sell nuclear power technology and support to Saudi Arabia. Members of congress are worried that this could lead to a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, which would make Saudi Arabia, even more powerful. So what's the scam on a global level? The international community has been pretty pissed about all of this last month. Thirty six countries on the UN Human Rights Council. Voted to rebuke Saudi Arabia over the treatment of those women activists and to demand. They're released in the US congress Baring its teeth by saying we're done. That's why this vote yesterday was such a big deal. It's the latest example of how a bipartisan majority of US lawmakers aren't interested in helping Saudi Arabia anymore because of human rights abuses, because of things like the murder of kashogi, President Trump has to decide whether he will agree to back away from MB S or whether he'll shrug his shoulders at congress and veto. They're both. It would be the second veto of his entire presidency. In the meantime, one of the world's most famous asylum-seekers is maybe about to get a victim. And he's got bigger worries than getting his deposit back that stories next. So clearly there's a lot going on in the world. You know, what else is going on taxes? Yup. Tax season is in full swing. But f y it's not a season that you can just write off agent are block can help you face the form. So w twos. Don't become WT apps from a little help to all the help H block makes violin easy. Whether you want to do it yourself or get help from tax pro you've got options visit H&_R block in person or online today to get started. It's Evan Friday. And we're looking forward to the weekend. One guy who's probably not WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, WikiLeaks is the organization that's helped leak some pretty controversial documents in emails like classified military, docs, and Hillary Clinton's campaign chairs emails during the two thousand sixteen election. Assange has been hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in London for almost seven years. But now WikiLeaks is claiming that they're going to kick him out. Let's back up. And remember, why Assange is even there? Back in the early twenty tens Assange was all over the news to Swedish women had accused him of sexual misconduct and his organization WikiLeaks had just leaked documents that the Obama administration said Brenton US national security, the person who gave WikiLeaks those documents army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning was sentenced to thirty five years in prison for that. So Assange was living in London and the UK was ready to extradite him. So he could face charges in Sweden. Assange was worried that Sweden would send him to the US to answer for that. Wikileaks stuck lots of potential jail time either way Assange freaked out Assange is a trillion, but Australia has a deal with the US about extraditing people Ecuador doesn't so Assange knocked at their embassy in London in June twenty twelve and asked for asylum. They let him live there and the Sohn's made a big ask of the US. President Obama to do the right thing. The United States must renounce its which against WikiLeaks. That didn't happen Sweden eventually dropped their charges against Assange a couple of years ago that same year the Trump administration up the case against him. Suicide just staying in the Ecuadorian embassy. He even became a citizen, but Ecuador has been kinda Nord with him recently. They say he's not a great house guest messy didn't take care of his cat. Oh in Ecuador's. President says Assange has been breaking all kinds of other house rules to in. February documents were leaked that appeared to implicate the Ecuadorian president in using an offshore tax haven and trying to cover it up. Wikileaks says the president is blaming them for reporting on that leak and is taking it out on us on JR. The Ecuadorian embassy hasn't officially commented, but a senior official at the embassy says they haven't actually made a decision yet. People were demonstrating outside the embassy today showing their support for Assange next to British police officers pool arrest him, if he leaves the UK still has a warrant out for his arrest. It will also be a stressful weekend for college basketball fans as March madness gets into the final four that's next. This weekend is the March madness vinyl four. So what do you need to know on the men's side? Michigan state is going up against Texas Tech and Virginia is taking on Auburn. Auburn is the closest to a Cinderella story that we're gonna get this year. They were five seed going into the tournament, which is not the top. But not bad either. They beat a twelve seed then they had upset after upset beating three top teams. UNC Kansas and Kentucky Virginia is a number one seat. So we'll see if the glass slipper fits on the women's side. There are no surprising fairy tales pretty much all the favorites. Made it to the final four Baylor plays Oregon, and it's university of Connecticut versus Notre Dame for uconn and Notre Dame, it'll be their fiftieth meet up, this is one of the biggest rivalries in women's basketball, and Connecticut has won thirty seven of their matchups to Notre Dame's twelve but when it comes to the final four Notre Dame has the upper hand Notre Dame has won four of the last seven final four playoffs. Including last year when they beat uconn and went on to win it all. Check out the skims coverage of the NC double A tournament. If you wanna learn more, we devoted a whole episode of our notes to it, and you can find it on the skin app. Before we go today. We've got a fun fact coming to you from the world of cats a cat that. If you think your cat knows its name is Bella or fella or you're probably right. Japanese scientists tested cats by playing them recording four nouns or names of other cats, followed by the cats own name on average when the cats heard their name. They would react. It's the first experimental evidence that cats can actually distinguish between the words that people say this doesn't prove that cats actually attach. Meaning to the words researchers say cats probably associate their names with fun stuff like or playtime or negative things like going to the vet. So your cat probably understands what you're calling it. If it doesn't respond. Maybe it just can't be bothered dogs on the other hand. Can learn hundreds of words. And that's all for skim. This. Thank you so much for tuning in this week. And to keep us in your feed, these share to hit subscribe, we'd also love for you to share the show with your friends and rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of news happens over the weekend. So if you want to catch up bursting on Monday, sign up far morning newsletter the daily skip, it's everything you need to know to start your day right in your in box. You can sign up at the skin dot com.

Saudi Arabia US President Trump Julian Assange president Saudi Arabian government Saudi royals congress NBS Yemen WikiLeaks London Jared Kushner Jamal kashogi Sweden Badawi Ecuador UN Human Rights Council
The Hack Heard Round the World

Pro Rata

10:28 min | 11 months ago

The Hack Heard Round the World

"Where we take your ten minutes is to get you smarter on the collusion of Tech Business Politics? I'm Dan per MAC on today's show Philadelphia's oil blues an apple races podcast stars but first the a hack heard round the world so if it weren't for the ongoing impeachment the country's biggest story right now would probably be allegations endorsed yesterday by the United Nations that Saudi the Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Soman hacked. Jeff bezos phone extracting a massive amount of data over a period of several months in two thousand eighteen. Here's the quick timeline. On April fourth two thousand eighteen bays. NBS Meet at a dinner party weeks later. NBA sends a video message via WHATSAPP and allegedly includes a secret piece of code that had been created by an Israeli spyware firm called NSO group. This is at around the same time. The Saudi dissident Jamal Kashogi writing critically of Saudi Arabia in the Bay zone Washington imposts few months later Kashogi gets murdered by the Saudi government with the CIA concluding the NBA himself was involved soon after that. The national enquirer exposes that bezos is cheating on his wife and they've got cell phone photos. The mistress's brother admits leaking information about the affair but insists that the photos didn't come from him. NBS privately privately texts pesos. Saying he's got nothing against the billionaires companies but Bazo says some different information and hires a consultant to examine his iphone that leads to the forensic report the UN yesterday concluded quote with medium to high confidence that NBS hacked basis and that conclusion matters a lot even though the Saudis loudly deny it politically because it means a US ally may have hacked someone who leads one of America's largest corporations and owns one of its most influential media outlets plus top trump adviser. Jared Kushner reportedly has used what's APP to communicate with NBS and that Israeli company NSO group. They used to be advised by former trump national security adviser and current federal convict. Michael Flynn from a tech perspective. What's APP is owned by facebook already last October sued? NSO group related to potential hacking based on vulnerabilities and WHATSAPP and from a business angle. At the time of the alleged hack. Nso Group was owned by a private equity firm whose investors include some of the country's country's largest public and corporate pension funds. The bottom line here is that this incident if verified touches at the highest levels of American power both private and public luke in fifteen seconds. We'll go deep cyber stoop reporter Shannon Vava but first this axios gives you the news and analysis. You need to get smarter faster. On the most important topics in our unique smart brevity format we cover topics from politics to science in Media Tech. Subscribe to get smarter. Faster at sign. INEPT AXIOS DOT COM and now back to the podcast. We're joined now by Chevra a former axios colleague who now covers cyber warfare rare and the NSA for cyber scoop so Shannon. Let's start here. How does the U N the United Nations become involved in this? Because this isn't the sort of thing sort of investigative work we think of when we think about the UN right so there was a report that was conducted by FDI consulting a business firm located in Washington. DC There's five or security team conducted analysis of Jeff. bezos is phone after. He believed he'd been hacked by Muhammad Bin Salman in two thousand eighteen and the United Nations became aware of this investigative report and they issued a statement analyzing the report this week sort of putting their political will behind it saying that mobile mobile malware and spyware like this needs to be reined in. Let me ask about the malware partner and this is the Middle East. It'd be getting a bit ahead of my skis from technological standpoint but my understanding the report Ford is they didn't find actual malware per se. But they did find what they called suspicious code and then a massive extraction of data from bezos. His phone so is the lack lack of malware. Is that important or is the fact that the data started leaving indication whether official malware or not. It's the same effect only questions have come up and information information security community as all of us are kind of doing postmortem of the FBI report. That's become public things to motherboard for publishing it but there's a lot of caveats involved here. They didn't find the malware as you said even though they believe there was malware on his phone. But the fact that there's no smoking gun there is really interesting in part because of the analysis that they conducted Ed and the reasons why they say they were unable to conduct certain analysis so not to get technical but for instance they encryption prevented them from analyzing the contents of the download. Our which is what they delivered the suspicious video file when you say encryption you mean encryption in the code the onset or just the general encryption because he used whatsapp which is an encrypted messenger. Service in general encryption here on that but also to download our was encrypted itself which makes it difficult to access but the issue here is download irs. When they they come through? WHATSAPP are downloaded alongside? With the keys. That would decrypt the download. Her so it's a little confusing to hear that encryption prevented them from accessing it and the fact that the report. It doesn't really explain what happened. There has left a lot of people in the Information Security Community confused about why they were unable to access that information facebook last October pursued. Ns Ogre now NSO. Group is the company that created. Apparently the spyware that allegedly bs and the Saudis used here facebook sued them for something. Like this does this track in other words is what facebook sued. NSO group four very similar to what it seems F. T. I in the. US found facebook food. Ns Oh group for allowing hackers. T's a flaw law and that allowed hackers to hundreds of journalists and politicians. And what's interesting here is on top of facebook ceiling here. There's also an Israeli human rights lawyer WHO's suing in Israel the Ministry of defence that he hopes would restrict company's ability to sell spyro like this. And if there's political will to change the way that expert licenses work for this that would be really interesting and important for people who are either prominent like Jeff Bezos or vulnerable like political dissidents or journalists. Here I'm reporting now based on what you said on twitter you tried to get comment repeatedly from the US State Department on this and what they came back to you with finally was quote we are aware of the media reports and are concerned about the allegations and quote nowhere in that statement is and we plan into investigate to your knowledge do US authorities plan to investigate there have been reporting that the FBI is investigating this but the State Department basically refuse to answer my questions on that. That's kind of what their response was to. I was asking whether they were going to launch an investigation whether they support an investigation being launched and the reason that matters is because the United United Nations officials who are coming out on this based on this report are saying one the US should be investigating this to other law enforcement agencies around the world should be investigating Mohammed bin Salman alleged involvement in Hacking Jeff Bezos. But also other political dissidents around the world we know dot researchers Irish security researchers have documented that political go does it ends and journalists in Mexico and Morocco have been targeted with SPYRO. Like this and it rains a lot of concern for the United Nations final question for you let me ask you about a political figure. Who's he's not a dissident? which is Jared Kushner? There was reporting a couple of years ago that he was regularly communicating with. NBS Via. What's happened there? Were security people at the time who raised red flags about that. I should you know whether it be the FBI or State Department of Justice. Should they be also concerned that beyond Bezos that they're senior people in the White House who have communicated with MBBS via the same technology. That's definitely something that causes some concern in the information security community and on a I take away from this is don't go texting. NBS right but we can't really be flippant about it because it's a major national security issue when you can be able to send an MP for video file and then possibly infect someone else's phone own with malware and they don't have to take any action necessarily and the other thing here is just to on a high level MB went on a tour of the US and everybody felt for right. He said I'm going to radically change Saudi Arabia. I'm going to rule in a different way. But meanwhile he's jailing political dissidents. He's going to soon murder. Jamal Kashogi the American journalist who it was a columnist at the post and then also allegedly hacking business now and it just raises questions about who cozied up to Saudi Arabia. And why and WHO's still cozied up to Saudi Arabia and and why shouldn't have ever thank you so much for joining us. My final two right after this there is more news out there than ever before but these days it's harder than ever to find. I didn't know what to trust axios. AM takes effort out of getting smart by synthesizing. The ten stories. That will drive the day and telling you I. They matter subscribe at sign up dot axios axios DOT COM and now back to the podcast. Now it's I'm from my final to begin South Philadelphia where a five thousand Acre oil. It'll refinery property has sat silent since last summer when part of it caught fire and exploded the facility is called Philadelphia Energy Solutions and previously had been the east coast largest largest and oldest oil refinery. And it's the one you often see when flying into phillies airport. It'd be struggling in the earlier part of last decade before private equity firm. The Carlyle Group swooped in and struck a deal with existing owner Sonoko. Saving eight hundred fifty jobs and it's the sort of thing that Carlisle talked about a lot. It was the good private equity story. But within the company slumped again filed for bankruptcy in two thousand sixteen clawed its way back out and then well again it literally exploded sadly the news. Is that a Chicago. Hutto based investment firm has agreed to buy the property out of bankruptcy but has no plans to reopen it as a refinery meaning that the one thousand or so jobs many of which have been filled by unions union. Steelworkers aren't coming back and finally this morning. If you listen to these podcasts via Apple Itunes you may have noticed that these star ratings have disappeared. If you've seen in these used to be able to give us one star to five stars but not anymore the written user reviews those still exist just not the stars kind of following a trend by other certain social media platforms that's de emphasizing. Things like likes so. If you WANNA leave us a review you'll have to actually leave us a review. We look forward to reading it and no longer having to stress over stars. And we're done big. Thanks for listening to my producers. Tim Show Verizon Shaven have a great National Pie Day. Not Apple Pie Day or Cherry Pie Day just Pi. Hi Day and we'll be back tomorrow with another pro rata podcast.

Jeff. bezos NBS United Nations Saudi Arabia facebook Nso Group US FBI Jamal Kashogi Jared Kushner Philadelphia apple WHATSAPP UN Information Security Community Washington Muhammad Bin Salman national enquirer Saudi government NBA
Turkey Makes the Most of Its Moment

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

22:49 min | 2 years ago

Turkey Makes the Most of Its Moment

"Goal. It's been three weeks since journalists, Jamal kashogi was murdered and October. Second, he walked into the Saudi consulate Istanbul and never came out not alive at least every time you think you've heard all the terrible details about his death or learn. Another one is just another unbelievable cover story. So let's say this out Audis was autopsy expert in that a bone. So was used on the body after murder. Abon saw talk of an assassination squad. It sounds like Turkish authorities are moving towards the theory that this indeed was a targeted murder in each bit of information, each new horrific detail. It's all been coming from the same place Turkish officials claim. He was murdered by a fifth in Turkey. Turkish officials are accusing Saudi Arabia hours. Unnamed turkeys officials have told the Washington Post Reuters that he was. Killed in that consulate essentially that Turkish officials have come to the conclusion that he was murdered. CNN has not been able to independently confirm those reports today, the president of Turkey, reject Erta one. He stood in front of parliament and kept making the case kashogi. Death was premeditated. Shauna. He called the murder a political act. He called for an independent investigation. You could feel president or to one tightening of is spinning this web facts. That would be hard to escape watching that speech ahead. One question for Turkey. What next? I'm Mary Harris, slates own, Josh, Keating's going to help me answer that question today, but I, I'm going to talk to sleet writer. Ayman is my ill as a Muslim American. He's been thinking about what happened to Jamal kashogi from a totally different perspective, and he's got some ideas about her Muslims like him can take action, stay with us. This episode is sponsored by Intel, not that you would open Photoshop and illustrator, and every application on your computer all at the same time just for fun, but you could with the eighth gen Intel core processor with Intel, octane memory, you can push your computer to limits, new computers with Intel. Often memory are now faster and more responsive, which means you can open load and launch, like never before learn more at Intel dot com. Slash you could. When president or to one addressed parliament in Turkey on Tuesday, who's really careful and how he spoke about the Saudi Royal family. He used a formal name for king Salman. He called him the custodian of the two, holy mosques. It was a reminder that for those who practice Islam, Saudi Arabia isn't just a place. It's a place. Muslims are required to go at least once in their lives. If they can. I spiritual pilgrimage known as the hajj for slates Ayman Ismael. The hajj has always been something he's longed for since he was small. The remember when I was a kid they had they'd set up a fake one in the gymnasium for us to go around. And it said, if a fake Hosh to teach us how to do it and teach us like the significance in a member, have this picture of me in the mix as a little kid like loving it, like, this is awesome. But these days Ayman's been thinking a lot about how much he's willing to compromise when it comes to his spiritual responsibility because the Hodges expensive and all that money goes to the Saudi government. A government that seems to be responsible not just for Jamal kashogi death, but humanitarian crises in places like Yemen to tell me how long have you been saving for the? I've been saving for the hedge for the last two years. How much money do you think you need for me and my wife to go together? I think I need about twenty thousand dollars. What does that include that includes like hiring someone getting a plane ticket. What does it, what does it all? So you need to pay the visa to on Monday, wrote an article called, what's the Muslim to do about the hajj housing. He wants young Muslims like himself to reconsider the pilgrimage America or New York City to mecca, and it's a whole month you're taking? Yeah, it's one of those things that you consciously need to decide you're going to be doing years in advance. My mom went and you know, never gonna. Forget my dad making meals for us. You know, it's different. But those kinds of memories that you have that your mom went on her own. Yeah, we couldn't be left alone kids. So like my dad and my mom had to go separately. When you came back, what did she say about it? She said it was the single greatest moment of her life. Really? Yeah. And she meant it. I mean, think about the experience, right? We've seen pictures people dress all the same people. You not really understanding everyone because everybody's speaking a different language. Everybody's coming from a different culture, different background, but still you all come together tens of millions of people to perform the exact same actions in performing the exact same ritual. So it's this spiritual oneness that I- magin is like, if what stock had a Woodstock, you know what I mean? Like out of control where there's all these people coming together peacefully for for one purpose. So I can imagine that it's spiritually transforming when you speak about it. I can hear this longing in your voice goal. So. Oh, so you've been thinking about Saudi Arabia's role in the Muslim faith for a while, but then this month here about what happened with dramatic Shoghi. What changed what changed for me was I noticed that the western media was paying attention now. You know, I, I've always had my doubts reservations about these like foreign governments, Egypt during the the Arab spring, and we all thought that the spring was gonna free Arab peoples all over the whole region. And when it came to Saudi Arabia, they crack down right away. Brutally, you know. So the Saudi Arabian government being brutal isn't news to anyone, not not anymore of them. I don't think either it's that suddenly CNN was reporting on it regularly in that Fox News was even reporting on it and Trump was tweeting about it. You know, I can't think of the last time van Jones had anything to say about the crisis. In Yemen, you know, which has been happening for the last three years. So it was a moment of clarity. Now everybody's talking about it. This is this is a good thing, but what's going to happen is the pressure going to dissolve or are Muslims going to start thinking about how they themselves can pressure the custodians of the holy places to act. Right? So you're definitely not going to go this coming year. I don't think I could. I mean, the only thing that would change that as if the Saudi government took responsibility for what they did and took a step in wanting to fix the wrongdoings that they've done to the innocent people in Yemen. I can't say that I'm beyond the pale, you know, but I can't say that I'm morally and ethically at a loss of how I can go on hedge and focus on this virtuality that my my mom. Was talking about the my dad talked about when you came back. Have you talked to your family about this? Yes. What do they say? My father didn't understand. He told me that there's nothing that brings those two together for him. Okay. You have a political grievance. I understand that that should have nothing to do with the with the pilgrimage and I don't think he's wrong. I think he's right. You know, I think I want to be able to be that person to go on the pilgrimage and focus on just chill development. Exactly. You know, but I'm playing through to my mind right now. I'm I'm seeing myself show up to the airport, giving the the several thousand dollars to the officer who's going to accept the visa money, and I'm not gonna see that money again and I know where that money is going to go. So and I'm not trying to tell Muslims, we have to boycott. This is the breaking point. This is it. I just want to voice that dilemma that I was going through and. And I was surprised to see that so many people related, but I do think it's important for me to make that distinction. I'm not putting out a call of action to say, we need to abandon the hatch. If you've been saving money and you think you can focus on your hedge, go like, that's awesome. I want to be that person. But right now I'm, I don't think I can what's been. The response to article of had a lot of people that I respect come to me and say that they didn't think that this was the best course of action for Muslims to take. Why do you think that is? Why do you think so many people have come to you and said, now this is this is too far. This is something we shouldn't do. I mean, it makes sense that something that I was thinking before hitting the published by, you know, this isn't. I'm not here for the pure argument. You know what I mean? I don't think that in its core, there's only one way to see it or feel or are. Or think about it. I think this is the the new ones that comes with going through this kind of moral and ethical dilemma. I think everyone's going to be able to everyone has to be able to respond to it their own way. And as long as that is maintained, then it's totally understandable. And on that somebody would come to me and say, this is the wrong decision because for them, yes, it is. That's true for them. But for me, it's not how much money do you have saved up right now? Ten grit, some halfway there. You're halfway there. Got some time to think about it and they have some time to to clean up. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Support for what next comes from six. When it comes to current events, market trends in technological advancements knowledge is power for businesses. Being able to stay ahead of those trends and advancements paramount. Citric digital workspaces, help organizations streamline their technology strategy in create a seamless work experience that deuce productivity and Chile without sacrificing security with six. You get a unified flexible platform that works with any cloud. Any device or technology, maximizing this investments in infrastructure will seamlessly integrating new business models, new products, new services, but it's not just about the future six dollars delivers real time access to information insights and analytics that organizations can use to inform decisions today and stay ahead of the competition. Knowledge is power and technologies, key with citric, no matter what happens in your business industry or region, or halfway around the world, your organization. Quickly, pivot to whatever comes next, learn more at citric dot com. Slash how citric this is how the feature works. I've always kind of been on version this beat since two thousand seven might beat so broad out like entire world. If the question about the world, I talked to this guy, my name's Josh Keaton. I'm a senior editor slate focusing on foreign policy and international news, prince foreign policies, crown prince if I called up Josh because I wanted him to tell me more about who turkeys, rigid tub or two one is and what he might want from this diplomatic crisis. One piece I saw compared to one to a mafia boss milking this moment where he could turn the world against his big regional competitor, Saudi Arabia. Yeah. I mean, one thing to point out his heir to anew Kush. Oh, they were there apparently friends. Obviously that aside Turkey wants to use everything, it can to sort of sideline NBS, Josh is talking about NBS that's Mohammed bin Salman the real crown. Prince crown prince of Saudi Arabia as one leaves this breadcrumb trail of information about Jamal Shoghi Steph seems to me that the US and Saudi Arabia and Turkey are locked in this love triangle. The United States needs allies in the Middle East Turkey and Saudi Arabia want US support politically financially. So I asked Josh to explain who the players are here starting with president or two one. The former mayor of estan bull. He's associated with the KP party, which is a religious party fought against these longtime secularist military dominated government in Turkey. So we first came to power in two thousand three, and he was prime minister for a long time. And then he altered the constitution basically to make a stronger presidential system and then moved over to the president's office where he's been in power since two thousand fourteen. He went through this volition personally to write winning. I came to power. There was some hope that he would open up the country and there'd be more journalistic freedom and a more open political system. Right? Your on was viewed with a lot of hope, especially in the US has this kind of model of, you know what a moderate Islamic government could be Turkey wasn't exactly democratic before it had been this longtime in forced secular system with, you know, domination of the military, and he seemed to be, you know, a definitely somebody believes in political Islam, but had a more kind of modernizing liberal approach to it and he was a big supporter of some of the spring movements to. Right, absolutely. It was a major backer of the Arab spring, particularly the short lived Muslim Brotherhood government came to power and Egypt, and that's kind of at the root of his, the current conflict between him and. The Saudis. Tell me more about that. Well, so they sort of found themselves on opposite sides of this Turkey was a major backer of these revolutions and inside some of these sort of more Islam, governments that were overthrowing, longtime, secular autocracies has kind of modeling themselves on Turkey in some away while the Saudi government is it self very religious. It also it tends to values to -bility and definitely sees the Muslim Brotherhood in any of its incarnations as a major threat. So in Egypt, particularly, they found themselves on office at sides with Turkey associating itself with the Muslim Brotherhood government led by president, mom, and Morsi and Saudi Arabia backing what was eventually the coup that brought the current president updo Fatah's he c- to power? Yeah, it was last week when I spoke to texter Filkins he said, well, with Turkey and Saudi Arabia, they're both kind of vying to be. The leaders of the SUNY world yet it's true. An airline is particularly ticked off by the Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman who sort of tried to present himself to the outside world as as the, you know, modernizing reformer liberalize her, but really, you know, what would NBS pushing not so much liberalization but moving Saudi Arabia way from kind of, you know, theocracy to a more of like nationalist more secular autocracy. And so you know, that's obviously something that you know this Turkish government is going to oppose. We're gonna NBS in a second, but I just wanna I wanna paint a little bit more of a picture of of earn on because he sort of gradually became more authoritarian de opin that on any one moment. I think the big kind of inflection point where it became sort of impossible to defend him as some kind of liberal was after the failed coup of twenty sixteen. This was in the summer of two thousand sixteen failed. Military coup tried to overthrow to on and thousands of people were arrested, including journalists, several newspapers, shut down, and you know this, this included several American citizens including the the pastor Andrew Brunson who is just released earlier this month. So what was spent the last month talking about Jamal kashogi and Saudi Arabia's role in suppressing speech. The thing that becomes clear when we talk a little bit about who earn on is, is that the people providing all the intelligence in this case are also not particularly friends to journalists? Yeah, it's it's one of the. These ironic cases where is sort of moment of reckoning about, you know, human rights, the rule of law and respect for journalists. This sort of moment is being driven by a steady drip of information that's coming out from Turkish officials and from the state run Turkish media Turkey is according to the committee to protect your analysts, the world's leading jailer journalists that has more reporters behind bars than any other country. I think he said it was like seventy three as as of last year they're seventy three. We get updated numbers on that pretty soon. And you know, Turkey, as I mentioned before has pursued its own critics abroad. I mean, there have been several cases of sort of borderline kidnapping of suppose, Google and supporters and other countries. So it's it's not as if this is you know a cut and dried case of, you know, freedom versus autocracy. This is if the US reassesses its relationship with one sort of problematic. Longtime ally that locks up or kills its critics said it may benefit another one. Well, what do you think Turkey wants out of the situation? One, they would love to sideline mom and Penn salmon who heard one plainly loathes and either reduces influence or curb Kim, or take him out of the line of succession. You know, if that's not possible. I think it's worth it to them just to kind of drive a wedge between the US and Saudi Arabia. A few months ago, US Turkish relationships were in a really bad place that said they've improved a bit lately. There's a kind of path forward where things really improved for the US Turkey, a relationship, and he would love to at the same time to see US Saudi relationships kind of downgraded. Eamon comfortable with that. I mean. It's Dan, if you don't. I mean, it's, I think we should knowledge that all these players kind of have their own interests and that we have limited leverage and we shouldn't be getting onboard entirely with any of them. I was struck by looking at the speech today was that earn one was actually pretty differential to the king of Saudi Arabia, but he didn't mention the name of Mohammed bin Salman at all. Did you notice that too? Yes, there's a kind of perspective on this that what there is now less the Saudi problem than an MBA problem. I think that the ground prints from the perspective of a lot of people, he's kind of Bray behaved in this really cavalier manner that's destabilize the Middle East and what Turkey would really want is to see him if not taken out of the line of succession, at least sort of rain, dental little bit. Have his wings, clipped impart the speech could be read as a message to MB SS, dad, you know, come get your boy. Let's let's, you know, get the situation under control. This kid's gone way too far. But you know, after the speech is over, NBS showed up at that. -ment conference. Everyone's been talking about for a couple of weeks that he got a standing ovation. Does that just show how hard this is going to be? You go to standing ovation with this conference is not what the Saudis were hoping it would be. I think they wanted this sort of. They wanted the, you know, the IRS of the world and the Alon Musk's the world hobnobbing with him. You know what they get. Is there kind of traditional friends, which is Hoyle companies and energy services companies and some businessmen from Russia. So you know, the Saudi monarchy is not toppling anytime soon, and there's little sign of that, but this kind of idea that NBS could present himself as the sort of western friendly reformer. Something that you know looked a lot more likely year ago when he was being feted by Tom Friedman and sixty minutes and taking tours Facebook than it does today. He's always going to have Russian oligarchs oil company, CEOs. You know, trying to carry favor with. Josh, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. Now there's chauffeur today, and if you made it this far today, we've got some bonus content for you. You can see a picture of Amen. Is male participating in his own mini Hodge that when he talked about at the start of his interview, he calls his picture baby Ayman doing baby highs. It's adorable, you can see it on our Instagram. That's what next pod follow us there over the next month as we pilot this show in public CS chronicle this adventure in real time. What next is hosted by me Mary Harris, it's produced by Mary Wilson and Jason deleo on our engineer Terence Bernardo. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

Saudi Arabia Turkey Saudi Arabian government president Jamal kashogi Josh Keaton Salman United States NBS Ayman Ismael Yemen CNN Egypt Saudi Royal family Washington Post Intel murder Mary Harris Saudi Crown
What To Do With These Players

NFL Talking Heads

1:03:00 hr | 1 year ago

What To Do With These Players

"Hello everyone welcome into the NFL talking heads fantasy football podcast show he said the NFL talking heads fantasy football podcast show here on your hosts Jeff carrier it set wall surprised because of an injury impacting was not surprising the injury to Big Ben who's been injured kind of often his career ask the ball and it's out of his control too so I don't know why I'm thinking of them as different scenarios but I do because I don't paint everything that's or maybe a little bit in the middle of the road players injured players whatnot as we head towards middle of the season here so plenty the big bend did actually finish the last two seasons with sixteen games I guess I guess the reason of when I'm prize in the fantasy world good or bad biggest surprise twenty nineteen a certain player that hasn't either Colletti of runway left so we're going to talk about those players but I set wild we're five weeks through the season what is the biggest the biggest surprise I'm trying to think of something that's a little bit more in their quote unquote control a even know Stefan digs the team needs everyone's looking at them in the league to a trade for them to try and sell this player away we're going to kind of talk about some of those polarizing good or bad unfold okay but you weren't super you weren't a huge down Cook I you will you were a big Juju guy yes super onto Juju and more from Hopkins than you do from digs and digs really only had one monster year and his entire career and you know some people kind of saw that the the Vikings we're going to get back to the biggest surprise on either direction there's a bunch I think I'd go with go juju disappointing jujubes then I mean he looked like complete complete law to at least be really really good I know that the Big Ben Injury you really can't hold that against him but it seemed like oh well okay well but isn't surprising then then why would why would we love Juju including you as a as a lock early second round if that's so as for Minnesota is still there whereas Shuji doesn't have big Ben and they're not passing it over six hundred times game I think the one we among one I'm not saying that's his fault I'm not saying it's still surprising everybody everything that's transpired if you wasted first round pick in Juju you are pretty pretty has done worse than we thought are better or not you're Gilead certain player I say good or bad so so you're interpretations you know the I don't know I guess I guess we'll never know how good he would have been interesting choice they're considering the quarterback going down in the second game and arguably let's say stuff on Day 'cause I ha I want him in a couple of weeks but but he but he's not he's a big player but he hasn't he hasn't ah the view if he's GonNa miss on stuff on digs it's not as catastrophic as anybody who drafted Juju and the end of the try and move them Yada Yada Yada let's quickly touch on the interesting question at hand here said heading into week number seven yet but deandre hopkins considering some of the Monster Games that Watson this had and that will fuller as had most notably last week Hopkins has been incredibly going after him I kept them so I think you know what I still have haven't changed my team name and are the League still a glorious bastards and I need to change that Nelson first round early second you disagree with these you don't sound on is one which is why I brought it up the Juju I can't I can't call the six we are recording this Thursday now so as of today we're still unsure by the time you might listen to this Friday or the weekend surprising if big bang getting injured is so predictable Ju Ju stocktaking hit how come you were wise Elvin Wise Allen Cook a second round because if healthy their return as both messes as Deandre Hopkins something that's clearly we talked about them on our last pot but the under Hopkins is the most disappointing player even more so than digs because you got to do and how to handle the chase edmunds scenario and let's just pretend set everyone's gonna listen to this after the Thursday game so let's not advise them to do anything with what do how to handle them we get a lot of questions in our group message and talking heads nation you know start this player because they've been doing terrible well number one you gotta you gotTa keep a close eye on their the status of Todd Gurley and David Johnson and assuming they're going to miss time what I would do is after I picked Juju which by the way is a very good one two super defensive just being sewer defensive of my boy do I just I I don't want to blame it on him I'm just like running the football more and we thought the decline at feeling had in the second season last year was indicative of what to expect in the future obviously to this extent we didn't quiet all season long and we're through five weeks so I don't know how Hopkins can't be yeah I'm I'm changing my pick the Hawkins all right because you just shamed me in your flex you can swap out if chase edmunds ends up being the starter if not have somebody else ready to go I think if chase David Johnson into your flex one of those guys wearing rose colored glasses would ju ju just will not put any any blame on him for some reason so so I think I know why c e if that's the case you're would be able to pick up potentially a more able starter that's kind of sitting on Games are on at four o'clock so depending on your waiver rules you might be able to pick up a player an hour before game start as long as you're game hasn't started your flex trying to how to describe the so you have two running backs that are locks the you're gonNA start regardless keep them there and then put somebody with an injury become a really good starter but in this maybe in a scenario here you can't afford to start them and you need to go to the waiver wire right beforehand waivers processes have the Tennessee Titans Broncos Game Dallas jets you got Pittsburgh charred say someone wanted to go that route their benches and great or their benches filled with people that are more like you know a lot chase edmunds but they don't have Jason Waivers maybe you say you have a bench person that's not really a start or more of like a hank handcuffed backup that you're hoping can hopefully that's the best case scenario with your waiver rules and one of ours for example said ours runs at eleven am so that you would make that decision before eleven am on Sunday David Johnson. You won't Chase Edmunds at that makes it really easy right you're to see if if David Johnson Kengo you're moving chase edmunds right into David Johnson's lineup with Zor winning for different injury maybe Alexander Madison who are some other people in these four o'clock Sunday night Monday night games and they may be grabbed before throwing in a certain player for Thursday night but just in terms of handling the David Johnson and Todd Gurley with Malcolm Brown Chase edmunds scenario here's the lions packers not a lot there in terms of especially yeah especially when it's hard to looking at the other games at four o'clock Sunday night Monday who are some maybe potential and is not really a lot of games or great options but name that was also my team name last year because I also had him last year so I thought about changing it because I'm like who who wants to team name year after year but I figured since I had him throw in a tight end a wide receiver you can pick somebody up on the waiver wire if you're league allows you do that it just buys you more lineup flexibility so I think that's especially with the whole Adams injury picked him up this week if they were even available as early as or as late as this week but own in despite every league rights you're not going to be able to grab them he look in the Green Bay Game Geronimo Alison M B S are probably all owned double on Green Bay any thoughts on that it's really tough with these matchups like you're mentioning most of them are going to be known maybe some armed our about now all right give me a better name than Juju Stefan surprise I was I was edmonds I think you WanNa you WanNa Structure Your lineup so that you whoever you have maybe move to your flex so you can swap chase edmunds or is complete abomination all right so well before we get into the players that is worth discussing on the option is if your other option is starting somebody like you know Ronald Jones or Chris Thompson in like a flex type situation breaking by the four o'clock games for Adams so ideally you finding somebody within that game you can pick up ahead of time so you already have them on your oh I didn't do that and then I have a running back who ends up not being able to play and then I don't have any running back from my bench that I can swap in whereas if I had moved him to my flex obviously chase edmunds is playing you're starting him he's a muster yes the MLK Brown course so the tough part is at both of these game appoints move adams to your flex if you can and then even somebody like Thai Johnson for Detroit who's who's you know who is not going to give you very productive again if you're waiting till last minute type of scenario I guess these are options again if you're if you own so if you own David Johnson Todd Gurley I think we WANNA do is you want to see what your your options are on the bench if you let's say you had we should have saw this coming your team name the league playing call Ju Ju no what I'm saying I mean what a loser of course of course you're going to get is going to have an off year and that's your team steal them from the opponents they can't do that but yeah the the problem with these matchups is like Marvin Jones Kenny Golladay are going to be Russia percentage here real quick maybe a let's see Benny Snell I mean going deep down here with the and it might be worth just riding it out and weighing in hoping that Adams plays and if not pivoting to to somebody else you know that might be all the time it's like I never get so like I don't love Aaron Jones he would be someone that I would definitely move on from and try and get what I can but most of the land Tampa Bay and you're matchup is looking very you know like you're in really good shape I would just take the points with Curtis Samuel right because it all depends on what your other especially with Jalen Samuels now being out any smells a pretty solid name and I don't know what the ownership is on Randall Cobb Jamison crowder but obviously they have been names Muslim list naturally is players aren't really performing well and and we could easily talk about what you do we'll go back and forth in terms of me kind of thinking of a player in kind of getting your thoughts on it and then vice versa so that way we're bringing up different so I have a couple of options and I'm moving atoms to my flex to give me the the option of starting any position all right now let's let's go ahead and move on to situation where you have a player that's completely outperforming what you thought they would in your also looking to move them because what happens with me is I with this player who maybe you didn't expect to do that Great Cooper Cup like we mentioned the last podcasts or you know you name it someone else I do have one person doing really go and you want to I mean any point is better than nothing and Adams is it all depends on who your other option is like if you have let's say your other option is somebody like Curtis Samuel much in a game where they might have to score a lot of points might be an option you know I don't know if you're not a great situation to be in clearly I mean you know it's like there's no holes and it's not like he's really gonNA come back down to Earth a ton so you know worst case scenario he he comes back a little bit to the mean and he's lived up to his is his you know what we thought he was going to do in more we've seen a ton of upside from them they're capable of monster weeks so it's not like we're auster and for those that play against it that you have a match up where you're playing somebody who owns the Monte Adams I would go and pick somebody like that pick up some of those players so that when you have more flexibility that way you can put a wide receiver in there or or a a running back for example like in the past I've got burned where to the main segment here I really really really want to get into this into these players here I think it's GonNa be a great topic most of my list like Allison's Allison's Rosser three four three or four percents so there's a chance that the drama allison is available maybe a look up this players don't like if that makes sense anyone who I have Cooper Cup or Chris Godwin in those types of players are because I already loved him in the first place so I'm never willing to move like that person probably wouldn't do it right my my person's obviously on their perspective he's going to say you know I mean you really have to be blown away in a trade I mean sometimes I'll offer I think it's worth offering a trade and just asking for too much trades that will probably get rejected on from that my general rule of thumb if you have anyone on your team and you already like them I don't go look to trade them there's no point in going to trade them as far as I'm concerned you mentioned like I wasn't really high on injuries I liked him because I knew the upside but I don't have any shares of him right even if anyone who was agean any news on Adams there's really gonNA try bet on through cold here's apologized for the for the garden it's hard to imagine any any news right yeah no absolutely and I propose the trade and you just fully expected it'll get rejected but it's it's a safe trade offer because either it gets their position but I guess in my scenario I wanNA maybe hear your feedback before the first name how often do you find yourself in people that I don't really care for before the season started I don't own so I'm never in a position where I own someone who's doing good I have Adams in one league for example just to give you an idea of how I'm playing it and I have a couple options that I like to replace atoms are going tonight golden tate and area Slayton so I'm not going what one of those options but I have Chris Thompson I have Mark Brown who's also who has also been missing practice and dealer I would be open and trading any running back really that's not named McCaffrey just because there there's so much more susceptible to injuries I mean if like the way I've got to either quite a few on how many you have so we'll try and go through these as quickly as possible I one I don't know if I've ever brain adopt cook basket which is very understandable he's a stud but I would definitely be put some feelers out there because I know everybody else is GonNa is GonNa Really Want Delvin Cook you're crazy and like Godwin will come down to somewhat less than Human Evans Will Evans will regress battles I don't know if we can think of a couple of top rhetoric example we don't know for example it Chris Godwin offering Chris Godwin to somebody who has you know Mike Evans and Joe Mixing and then we will pick the most scumbag trade offered of the mall and embrace it down just trash it because we all know we've gotten our share of them the big on and you have cooper they're both kind of in the same same boat like what would it take from trae Godwin because it's not like it's a fluke we knew that he was going to be really good this year happened to mention a phrase I think we should get a new drop on which is the scumbag trade offer drop I think that would be a nice addition so you're probably not very hard to move those people because you're always going to be more valuable to you probably then to another person you did you did you're probably you're probably in really good shape right now you're holding onto them to all the players at the top I mean you know someone like Delvin cuckoos he's just really good instead of not human and in part two is like we called it and so we want to we kind of have attachment to those types of players so you really I on him is likely the people that drafted him because they believed in him do in even from the outside looking in if I had Elvin Cook for some reason there's no way I'm trading him because the drop on this guy or not but just just for good measure Seth Stefan digs to me to me but what Ah send that to nation at NFL talking heads Dot Com all right I got some really good name let's let's start diving into these names if Downton cuckoo injury injured and he has a history of injuries then you've got three players it's you're putting all your eggs in well I'm jeff carrier were back for a nother episode to talk about what to do with these players everyone has them on their teams he does really well on your bench gets a ton of points and then his value at nothing else if nothing else has value rises or well he or he doesn't do anything still you know not scumbag trades like calling not these trades where you're trying to complete rep the person off but a trail you're you're asking for to really really good pieces week I started him and then he doesn't do anything yeah you you're gonna live with that because the flip side of that is you start him and he completely burns you apted young okay I got buried really good value for Godwin or it gets rejected and you don't have to drive Godwin so I if you have God when a cop you're Atas and especially if you're on a deeper league when you can trade somebody like Dow coke for a legit maybe three for one and get three really good players what if fun digs for Tara maclaurin straight up A couple of weeks ago in one of the leaks that I own Stefan digs if I still had stuff on digs I just I'm like I'm not letting you beat me eh even if he's not as good as go he'll regress to a lot closer to Godwin and that gap won't be Joe Mixing in their eyes and then you you necessarily can't fault them for that soundboard should do is we have our listeners should should should email us the worst trade they got your you know this season anymore I'm GonNa put you on my bench and if you have a really good week then I'm not going to be bummed out that I left you on my bench I'm going to be like hey stefan digs might be back so either way you Kinda win either is in you know he did do that two weeks ago I sat him he went out he had a good week touchdown Yada Yada and the anyone seen the tape of Minnesota you're not moving that guy you probably not moving in I mean most people went on I would still you know me I'm I'm a a wheeler did last week if you started him so and obviously it depends on what you're what the alternatives are but if you have somebody like I picked up Slayton in a bunch of leagues this this week I was with him how do you handle them what do you do well you don't start him that's for starters I think we're at a point in the season where I'm just I'm not letting players trade start sleeping over digs and save him take I would start both I would start both of them over DC you don't like the guy you know what I I know we're recording yeah no I I completely agree it's it's tough to even know what the what the value of what I have Chris I went and a couple of weeks he's a player that we were both really miss this won't this probably won't air until after the game but I still want to mention Slayton so that when he blows up I'm on you know we can roll the tape and I was out in front of it Ah I don't know you let's throw some names around the Calvin Ridley is a no brainer we're starting him over yeah how about you love just kinda going. CBS Digs I well if atoms doesn't play I agree though I think I'd go with dicks gets in every other game this season and it's just only one game with double-digit fantasy points now's the game there's only game of the touchdown so I think they both have so dead to me I say he's droppable you go get a living body on waivers that's who I'm trying to draw I'm trying to drought NBS for anyone okay all right you want from me I do Mike Williams Oh man ah incredibly frightening floors that I'm GonNa go with digs who has more upside and somehow probably a little bit I guess if you start at the sleet and rain I guess that gives us our idea of where you're starting digs how about this one digs or the two flex right now if you're in a too wide receiver to running back to flex league he's definitely probably a really good number two flex maybe even a number one flex I don't know can one of our leagues and it's a competitive twelve men leagues I'm having trouble dropping him but I am finding any solution I can to not have this guy in my starting lineup but he's playing Tampa Bay everybody that plays Tampa Bay just completely goes off so you the courtesy bridgewater fund eggs at absolutely yeah against Pittsburgh Oh boy this is a this is Mike Williams if there ever was such a thing as a Mike Williams game I let I think I would lean to talk to Mike Williams and Slayton insane so over NBA again again. Jimmy Diggs I mean well let's move onto NBS NBS is Evans or let's say an atom feeling you tatchell with someone who hasn't performed terribly in the person you're receiving season every podcast has conversation to some degree more or less and right now here's what I do you Ryan the hot hand I plugged them in if you're in this is I want I have him one of my leagues where is extremely top heavy in my flex is terrible and I'm always like star Chris Samuel but I don't want to it is if I got any kind of relative value for Mike Williams like you throw in you attach Mike Williams with a Mike Yeah because it's like I'm not gonna I'm not GonNa get caught up in the whole oh no atoms. NBS must you know he he's he's GonNa get his share of targets and you should do something which is probably not good player I means a good name someone who year in year out I feel like right in the middle of the says okay I'm hurting Gimme these players they attach some associated value with Mike Williams if you get any you know ten cents on the the opening game he's had three points or less in two of his last three games so anyplace Tennessee at home Tennessee's got a good defense bench him all right Mike Williams is here's a really good one that compared to digs Emmanuel Sanders after starting the year really hot with that I mean he finally got six catches for seventy four yards last week after never having more than three catches on any particular game he already missed one and scumbags else apparently I actually Kinda liked the spot for Mike Williams this week Sunday night deep enough league where Mohammed scene is a factor at any degree just throw them in there I mean there's more second flag on third flex what are you know he's at least at a number the money to burn this tape after well we are comparing the digs though I mean this is I don't I don't want to start Mike Williams you know what I I would probably go day and it's very close I don't know what you I don't know how to re Emmanuel Sanders he ran the second most routes that have any any wide receiver or anybody from Denver Rather I think with Emmanuel Sanders what more or less looking to do kind of spot play him I think that I'd still WanNa keep him on my team someone treated him because I think he's a matchup play like week seven they play Kansas City I like that okay week fourteen I don't think he's the type of player that you're GonNa get like real value for ray like the names just not attractive enough and I think that he's a decent player and that's only had a couple of targets I I don't know what to make of him what are you doing with what are you doing with Emmanuel Sanders there's maybe some of the some rumors out there that maybe they might trade him Ed three out of five games with five or more catches he's had to re five games with fifteen or more points all coming without a touch less scary of a floor if that's impossible but yeah I agree I'm going to now MVS all right you give me a player I just threw to all right Mohamed Sanu I'm coming with a touchdown so I I wanNA keep him I think he's a good flex player out even put a little bit of value in him as a potential throw in if someone that's you still on the comparing to digs part okay I like it I know I was thinking we should we do to the rest of the episode just just throw a bunch players comparing them the digs him on the players to avoid list for the first time in like a decade even though he hasn't been around for a decade so so we were nice enough not earning him over digs as you'd love to turn the segment and probably not I'm probably don't start dropping him though but you clearly wanna find a better alternative I'll bet on a team like Denver so I don't know I just wanted to make that comment like crazy thing about fantasy get asked a lot about these types of questions about dig sanders types of players this becomes so difficult and fantasy where you bring up Emmanuel Sanders Cheese I stopped watching Denver Games dollar I'm looking to move him I got a good one for you and this is we're still using digs because I mean he he can't throw Mike Williams out there and say what about Mike Williams compared to some gene in fifteen they play Houston and Kansas City again so decent playoff run there he's the type of person where he's probably lower down on your roster anyways by process of eliminating it just never seems to happen that Rogers can't find can't find a way to give him the ball I mean he's he's getting the four targets on Sunday but you know five or more I've been been mean enough to today I I really what are your thoughts on on Robinson so he's on by let's talk about some players that scored lower points like every single consecutively and then goes to get himself hurt so as you said Sammy Watkins she kind of liked him going into Sierra shame on us ever since his week one explosion he's well yes well I mean first of all we were nice enough not to is number one he's not a sexy name right he's kind of been under the radar he had a really good week on Sunday against Oakland but besides that he's just been solid respectable numbers what are your thoughts on Allen Robinson is somebody that you maybe target on his biweekly I love it I completely agree with you he was actually weeks ago I don't know what this guy is done I mean it's so hard to keep up on every single player and all the nuances if they're just treading water like Emmanuel Sanders has been in the down who's who's WHO's GonNa stop us we we make the rules right we make the rules we we're gonNA retroactively put him on our we're telling people now if you haven't acquired so you can play the match ups with him and he's great by weak filler regret I think there would be several weeks where I'd start him over digs especially next week give up a lot of some some short term assets because you have that cushion right Allie Robinson's player I WanNa get thousands on rob the player that I would love to to target the these types of players that are hard to pinpoint and what can kind of make it difficult is you know there's hundreds of these and talk to watch all the games so you're right and you're wrong and neither move or double down and in this case you know changing philosophy and saying hey Alan and he's on by so whoever owns them can't use him this week and he plays on the bears it's like I feel like Allen road the Robinson Luster has worn off since that one Sammy Watkins yet don't acquire them please avoid him okay all right so one player misses in comparison stuff on days we don't let stuff on digs off the hook now all right I I I need to get out of the way because it was bugging me so can we retroactively put on this just like we knew we should d and Kansas City in week against Tennessee though since he's a good defense and I got another that let me throw one more comment on just Thomasson is running ninety percent of his offensive snaps you know how much I love that number eighty eight is the lowest running one hundred percent last week he's lot where he was going in drafts was a little high for someone that might be a little more Blah but hey I think one of the best things you can do as a fancy player is you know realize maybe we monster he had in Jacksonville he's somebody and he hasn't had less than seven targets in any game this season he's just been a complete steady force for Chicago if you're in a position you are in a couple of weeks where you're you know what five now form one that you can you can acquire and give me league and he's your touchdown guy he's they're kind of almost everything kind of person I am one hundred percent agreement in terms grab him and you make great points in terms of not having you know these are outside of last week he had twelve to seventeen catches three out of four weeks which is I'm going to expect out of him and before I get into this next player I wanna point out just out of nowhere Sammy Watkins is dead to us right he's he's he's we're nice to him for a little while we that kind of sexy name I mean right now who's going to have a better ending the year on Robinson or ODBC we know that odie would be dramatically harder to get calls so last two weeks Baltimore surprising thing in Baltimore game was at Cleveland went off and he wasn't part of that last week on he's out there on every single snap on the offense they have no one else to throw the ball to yes on a super great offense but he's got the volume so yeah and yeah it might be a little bit too early to trade him for somebody like on Robson who really has a you know who has limitations as ceiling isn't he I mean I could probably rain the bill and his destiny I'm not going to get there yet but let's let's face the facts he's had two bad weeks one of them against San Francisco yeah that's him and and he came out with nine catches we're like okay we didn't we didn't we were right to move to not avoid him we're not to put him on the list and then all he does is come back and you know they played a tough San Fran team who has been playing everyone tough in they've got great corners there so I wouldn't read too much into that but I'm saying is I think we are now at the point where that trades at least that's not a crazy trade yeah and so two to pivot to open someone that to going back to our list here it was someone on it wasn't really in favor of I just didn't think the upside was there and kind of the it just because let's face it and just finally got his first two touchdowns the year this past week before that he got non he's catching six or seven balls a week which is great but trade maybe someone like ODBC who's got the tangential to come around and start having these much bigger weeks that for example again listen I think I would do that I think I would I would at least consider I would like I would sleep on that train yeah I'm probably I'm probably not going to do it in an offense has really struggled only two touchdowns on the earth there's only two touchdowns in the year came last week against Oakland any still been very very I don't WanNA trade a player that doesn't mean it's bad or anything like that and it's a little bit closer to what I thought he would be in the beginning of the year but but I don't want but I'm glad you brought him up though if you own Odell Beckham are you offering our own back are you offering him straight up for our had last week it's a little early Robson has another one of these types of games I think you could be right I think it'd be too difficult to trade away. ODBC IF I had him either super concerns the next few weeks with only be schedule including the by but he does play Cincinnati in Arizona weeks fourteen eighteen so like you mentioned if you're in a situation where I'm five no when when does it become attractive I don't love odie still a lot that you can get in return for Odi so I would move on but again he's one of those types of players that I don't own for a reason right like in that spot he's got a rough schedule when he comes back from the by so this is a really tough spot even if he has a breakout game it's GonNa be Kinda hard to trade him because he's he's going to be on by they're on by the following week so then you got you got to sell to whoever your trade partner is that hey you know ODP's had one good week all season and owned by the way he's on by this week and I chop Seattle's been involved in Lotta high scoring games I think this is a pretty good spot for Odobi to have a breakout game if he's ever going to break out the problem is if he if he has a really good game basically back to back zero bombs I mean let's just let's face Stefan Gilmore is going to get put on him and he's he's that's it he's done but since I got juju which by the way I guess a similar type player I would I would try and get something for ODBC maybe maybe be good to discuss which I mean technically he's probably had at least two re bad weeks to his standards but you know the first three weeks of caught at least six want to trade for ODBC when he's going to give you pretty much zero bomb or expected zero bomb that's on attractive I'll say this though plays Denver then buffalo's that's that's not great but to your point I'll be looking to move him because you can you can sell everything I just saw I just sat right tough game matchup he caught six balls the first three weeks I think there's there's no doubt and if you're if you're that person at what point do you do you try and get the best value can you might get it during the by this week probably be the case but maybe during the by maybe when he's about to play New England owners just like I need to win can't get another zero bomb a by them playing New England's pretty and is willing to move him so it's one of those players where like regardless of how you feel like you should never be so tied to like one or the other he's got he's got maybe one or two games all year like you did last week but he's he's a high floor Guy Odie B is study drafted him probably in the early second round you're you're probably okay but if you did and you believe in them come back I don't believe I would he be because I also just don't believe in the offense and Baker Yeah he could have his game the players that that have more points than od be on the season and hope that whoever owns getting frustrated and impatient he hasn't really gone across the market and he's selling them for fifty cents on the dollar even though I don't love ODBC I'm GonNa be like okay yeah always keep ears open and listening so it's a great point performing really well Austin Hooper who is the number one tight end what are we doing here eighty four if if I don't like od be like if I don't have him I'm open to to trading him right but if I I'm also open to acquiring him natty Arizona are phenomenal matchups for the playoffs yeah I think if you're if you're after this week so I'm keeping him this week if you hey I'm struggling your five no need to get rid of this guy and if I'm the owner of od being like you said look for eighty percent but this guy's really selling and closed he had a good game jacquards got back on track but it's been like even CALC- hasn't been super x you know you're not super pumped and you're not gonna be able to trade into somebody who has a losing record it needs to win this I mean this is this is when trades get difficult as he goes on because you're you've got to find the right next name really interesting name and different position here and on the flip side someone who's actually been have after this week if you are in sub five hundred record and you need to win next week then I'm trading back for whatever I can get for him and hopefully his value good then maybe you know I'm fine keeping him or if your team is really good and you don't have only be I'm going to offer a two for one package to whoever has him you know maybe album unless you unless you already have his Acura Ingraham or Kelsey your Mark Andrews or d'isly or waller or kill you have another one of those top ten tight ends on your team trading partner and somebody who needs to win right away isn't gonNA WANNA trade for Odi be if he's on a bike mostly by any comes in plays in New England like you wanted the right price it all depends on what his prices like if I had ODBC right now like I would be open to trading him by eighty eight cents on the dollar but I'm also going to I'm fine he's done this year he's been kind of disappointing I think Austin hope or you're just going to keep him he's just the volume he's getting from from Ryan this year is just at a position come back and perform pretty decent when they do but there's a little bit of an unknown Hunter Henry comes to mind and to him as a as a kind of a crutch you know like I mentioned him once on this particular episode chair I know well what we would be willing to take well it he's he's really tough player to trade my suggestion would be hold onto him this week when they play Seattle it's a pretty good good timing type of trade not saying I don't want to do this but just to kind of throw something out there would you trade awesome hooper trade hooper but if you're next best option is like even Gerald Everett or Hopkinson or Jimmy Graham it would it would have to be because the reality is he's not somebody that's going you're going to be able to get a ton four like this ad I kind of thought of this trade here depend on who you're able to upgrade at other positions like that's where it gets really difficult in is are you going to be able to is trading hooper going to allow you to get that's very shallow and it's hard to overcome if you don't have a good tight end I mean your options are in great usually there's nobody in the waiver wire I'm

Mike Williams NBS David Johnson NFL Chase Edmunds Emmanuel Sanders Jeff Tampa Bay Cincinnati Zor Alexander Madison Jimmy Diggs Arizona Chris Samuel CBS Malcolm Brown odie NBS NBS Tennessee Todd Gurley
The battle between Modi and India's central bank

FT Big Read

14:52 min | 2 years ago

The battle between Modi and India's central bank

"Welcome to the financial times. Big read a week, he podcast featuring the best of our long form reporting from around the world. I'm Harry Robertson from the opinion and analysis desk. The Reserve Bank of India is embroiled in an intense political battle with prime minister Narendra Modi who faces reelection next year say Simon Mundie, and any sender. The government has long pressured the Indian central Bank to do more to boost growth, but a liquidity squeeze and possible. Economic slowdown has seen Mr. moody ramp up his attacks on urgent Patel. The bank's governor can the RBI's legally fragile independence hold. This report is narrated by Simon. For most of the past eighty three years, the directors of the Reserve Bank of India when almost unnoticed as they held that regular board meetings to discuss mostly administrative affairs. But Wendy, eighteen board members filed in for this week's meeting at the AVI is Mumbai headquarters. They were the objects of a media frenzy with additional police drafted into monitor goggle of cameraman jostling outside the building's fortified entrance for the past month. India's central Bank has been at the center of a political storm like few others and its long history. The controversy was triggered by a sudden liquidity squeeze that. Civilian -ffected, India's nonbank lending sector, a key driver of credit growth over the past three years. Amid fears of a hit to the economy during his drive for reelection prime minister, Narendra Modi's governments ramped up pressure on the central Bank for stronger action and implicitly threatened. Give it direct orders, sparking fears for the institutions prized, but legally fragile independence off the nine hours the board, including governor OJ Patel and his four deputies as well as two senior finance ministry officials reached a compromise the RBI would reassess its handling of its reserves under its lending restrictions on troubled banks, both key targets have government lobbying. But the agreements still left open the key questions that had dominated debate before the mating. Huge unsexy remains about the outlook for credit growth with non-bank lenders now eyeing shop, he's slow expansion and the giant state-owned banking sector still struggling under a mass of bad corporate dasm. Mr. Modi's government is expected to continue pushing the RBI to fend off a slowdown the could damage chances and the next German election, which must be held by next may. After a three decade period during which central banks have moved towards greater independence. The Indian drama is part of a recent trend in which leaders in major economies from the US to Taki to Japan have openly pushed monetary authorities to prioritize growth. The statement issued after the meeting closed on Monday nights looks like an attempt to paper over the differences between the RBI in the ministry of finance. According to Vivica Heggie on a fellow at the idea of C institute's, a Mumbai think-tank, but this is not over. He adds. This is a crisis deferred, not a crisis averted. As India's creaking state controlled banks was sucked into a crisis of non-performing corporate data over the past four years following a glut of lending to ill-fated projects and infrastructure and industry an opportunity appeared for nonbank financial companies thousands of these shadow banks which face broadly, less rigorous regulation than formal banks rapidly took market Shad, ramping up loans. The customers from scooter buyers to construction companies they were led by a handful of large blue chip names favored by foreign investors. Such as budge finance parts of the budge conglomerates a growing band of housing finance companies funded a real estate investment, boom in India's largest cities lending both to homebuyers and developers. A huge number of smolder MB FC's focused on consumer lending in communities that had been neglected by mainstream banks. Over the past three years. Non-bank lenders accounted for nearly a third of all new loans in India, according to Neil condoms rat head of equity strategy at Credit Suisse in Mumbai the trend of to to serious hit two credit growth and nibbled. The economy's maintain a growth rates of about seven percents again by the end of March the sexes, aggregate balanced. She's had reached twenty two trillion rupees more than three hundred billion dollars. According to the latest figures available from the RBI, but the NBS's rapid growth was built upon a risky approach to liabilities with a heavy reliance on short-term corporate debt, Uday Kotok, founder of Kotok, Mahindra one of the largest private sector. Banks says the tragedy is that housing finance companies with ten year homelands were borrowing money from mutual funds that had overnight redemptions. There was a huge mismatch. This source of funding was Toubon charged after the government's con. Traversable demonization of high value banknotes in November twenty sixteen which forced Indians to deposit the old notes at banks this resulted in a flood of money into the financial sites in much of which flowed into fixed income mutual funds. As NBS's short time debt issue sword. There was little difference in borrowing costs between the strongest and weakest much like the minimal spread between Greek and German sovereign bonds before the euro zone. Crisis says Sanjiv budge managing director of budge finance the risks of this model became painfully clear in September after a string of defaults by entities within I l and f s a finance and infrastructure group. That was one of the biggest issue is of short time corporate bonds and had enjoyed a triple a rating from agencies until the first of the defaults in late August, which followed disappointing. We're tons on some of its key projects. A decade on from the US subprime crisis. Some observers saw uncomfortable parallels with the Sutton downgrades of groups such as AIG comparisons. That added to investor jitters as the impact of ion fezzes woes rippled through the credit markets in September novice. Investors pulled in that two point one trillion rupees from fixed income mutual funds which in ton before I to sell securities to meet the redemption requests, the shop price of Delwan housing finance one of the larger MB FC's plunged by forty two percent in a day off to one meet you'll fund sold its dad at a steep discount. One top financial executive in Mumbai says it created the biggest fear psychosis. I've seen for some time when a triple Eggers into the foot everyone thinks who can I trust the government took dramatic measures to tackle the problems at ion facet self unilaterally. Sacking the entire board. And appointing a new one Chad by Mr. Khotak state controlled banks to stepped in to provide liquidity to NBS's which had until recently been poaching that customers state Bank of India, the largest of them announced plans to buy up to three hundred billion rupees of securities from NBS's over six months. The opened the way for further intervention by the state banks. Allowing them to provide partial credit guarantees NBS's to increase liquidity in the broader system. It's shopping increased its purchases of government bonds to five hundred sixty billion rupees don't Tiber in November. The interventions helped to calm the jitters with Indian money market funds enjoying modest nets inflows in October. The worst fear of investors. More shadow banking, the folds soon after the ion fast, miss payments was avoided but tensions were brewing between the government and the RBI as Mr. Patel fended off finance ministry pressure to do more to avert a lending slowdown. The disagreement burst into the open with a provocative speech in October by Varela sharia, a New York University economics professor who became an RBI deputy governor in late twenty sixteen in a thinly veiled attack on the government's approach. He cited the precedents of Argentina as he warned darkly of the dangers of undermining central Bank independence. Since its election in two thousand fourteen Mr. Modi's government has presided over four years of robust growth and motorists inflation. But the administration has persistently urged the central Bank to do more to boost growth, these tensions were widely seen as a fact said behind the accents of governor rug around Rajon a form IMF chief economist in twenty sixteen when he took the helm Mr. potato faced scrutiny as to whether he would maintain his predescessors focus on monetary discipline and uncompromising approach to cleaning up Bank balance. She's some in Mumbai financial sector believe that in his efforts to do say, Mr. Patel lapsed into stubbornness leading to an adversarial relationship with the government's one Indian Bank, chairman says this is a clash of egos if OJ Patel had taken the trouble to develop personal relations with the minister of finance. This would not have happened. Mr. Patel's speculation about this relationship and. February when in the off the Mark of a two billion dollar fraud Punjab national Bank. He remarked on the Rb is limited powers over state controlled banks for which it shares regulatory powers with the finance ministry. Meanwhile, the relatively hawkish policy approach, including two interest rate hikes in quick succession, this yet and lending restrictions on troubled state-owned banks was winning Mr. potato powerful enemies in Indian business. One senior banker says all the corporate daddy's hate him. As concerns mounted about the shutter bangs ability to raise funding amid September's debt markets we's the finance ministry wrote to the RBI asking it to set up a special credit vicinity for the sanctum. According to a person with direct knowledge of the communications. In doing. So the ministry in votes section seven of the act governing the RBI a clause never before activates it which permits the government to give direct instructions to the off after consulting management. The invocation of section seven sparked concern about the threat to the central bank's reputation for independence seen as a bulwark of Indian economics divinity s while prosecuted a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. In the US says if the government starts directly interfering in the core functions of the RBI, it could lead the RBI becoming less credible and less effective. The statement issued this Monday was silence on a credit facility NBS's, but it contained other agreements seemingly aimed at locating. The government. The ambiance would reassess a scheme that had restricted the lending of eleven ailing state controlled banks. The phased introduction of new capital adequacy requirements would be pushed back by yet. And the new committee would be formed to assess the RBI's handling of its reserves after government lobbying for a bigger payout to the stays. Critics of the governments had accused it of a short-sighted effort to boost growth ahead of an election. One. Former central Bank official says the timing makes the motivation of the government suspects. But the meeting's outcome was welcomed by those who argued that the central Bank could add too far on the side of monetary caution at the expense of supporting growth. The head of Indian credits operations for one major international investment firm says you don't want the central Bank to be politically driven. But the agenda of a central Bank con just be about targeting Assad and level of inflation. The debate over the RBI's economic row is set to continue as the ramifications of the NBA funding squeeze become then Mahendra you head of Indian fixed income for Mira asset. Global investments says the worst of the seas up in the corporate debt market has passed not narrowing spreads between commercial paper and sovereign bundy's. However, many in India's financial sector a now bracing for bruising second phase of the market upheaval stemming from the country's high end property market, which underwent an investment clouds over the past five years. Shadow banking loans to real estate developers and similar assets. A worth about four point six trillion rupees, according to analysts and Morgan Stanley with developers facing a sales slowdown there were fears that defaults from the sites are could undermine the fragile return of confidence to the debt market. Even without such crisis. Analysts born the market squeeze will continue to weigh on credit growth as newly cautious and BFCE's ca tell that lending with weekly capitalized state bangs in no position to make up. The shortfall having predicted aggregate credit growth of ten point five percent for India in the current financial year Morgan Stanley now expected to be as low as eight point three percent. Sumptious slowdown could increase the pressure on the RBI to do more to boost growth. A worrying prospect argues Mr. Prasad who says India is fortunate to stand apart from other emerging markets. West central Bank independence is quote a dubious concept. Others say the recent crisis has forced long-overdue scrutiny of the shadow banking sites and has provided an opportunity to reach consensus in the sometimes fiery debates over the RBI's economic role the relationship between the governments and the RBI will be clarified. As a result of this. Crisis says Russia's Shah, chairman of Ed all-wise financial services, one of the largest NBS's. A lot of us. Don't appreciate that. India is a work in progress. He adds and the institutional framework is evolving in real time. Thank you for listening. If even join this big read pulled cost, you can subscribe on all the usual channels. If you're not already an F T subscriber. Visit F T dot com forward slash offer for latest subscription office. This episode was produced by Harry Robertson.

government India Mumbai Narendra Modi Reserve Bank of India Mr. Patel US NBS Indian central Bank Harry Robertson prime minister state Bank of India NBS Banks Simon Mundie
Nigerian States And FCT Generate 162.87 Bn Naira In H1 2020

Newscast - Africa

02:20 min | 2 months ago

Nigerian States And FCT Generate 162.87 Bn Naira In H1 2020

"The affiliate podcast shares? The stories of multifaceted Africans one episode at a time the podcast aims to uncover the untold stories of modern and millennial. Based in various parts of the world each episode gives listeners an opportunity to learn and experience conversations that showcase who they are and global perspectives in our ever changing world fish also listen and subscribe to the Athlete podcast on spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also follow at athletes podcast and all social media platforms. Listening to the news at this, our on Africa Business Review figures have shown the thirty six Nigerian states and the Federal Capital Territory generates at one hundred, sixty, two, point eight, seven, billion naira in the first six months of the year. This was contained in a report by the National Bureau of Statistics sharing the internationally generated revenue at State level for half year twenty, twenty according. To the report, the thirteen sixteen and Fcat internally-generated revenue of six hundred twelve point eight, seven, billion naira in the first half of twenty twenty compared to six hundred ninety, three, point nine, one billionaire recorded in two thousand nineteen the NBA smooth says that this indicates a negative growth of eleven point seven percent yearly. It's added that similarly Q. Two, twenty, twenty states and city I. Was Two hundred and fifty, nine, point seven, three, billion compared to three hundred and fifty, three point one, four, billion era recorded in Q. One, thousand, nine, hundred, twenty. The NBS said, this indicates a negative growth of twenty six point five percent quarter on quarter according to the report legal states recorded the highest idea with two hundred, four point five, one, billion naira in each one, hundred twenty followed by a river state with sixty four point five, nine, billion, naira well. Recorded the least I G are. That was the news at this time on Africa business. Radio, you can continue to listen live online at www dot Africa business radio dot, com or fire mobile APP I'm being really thanks for listening.

naira Africa Business Review dot Africa Africa spotify National Bureau of Statistics NBA NBS seven percent five percent six months
E012  Google Autocomplete  FileMaker Can

FileMaker Off The Record Podcast

34:10 min | 2 years ago

E012 Google Autocomplete FileMaker Can

"Welcome to file maker off the record. You're listening to Thomas and Theresa of profile developers discussing all the things file maker for developers and power users Thomas Josh. How are you this evening. I am doing just fine and Dandy. How about yourself. I'm doing well. What are you drinking yeah. I think it's a McKenzie's Pumpkin cider hardy like that. Others are delicious yeah yes. It's a very appropriate for fall. Yes because it's fall of two thousand eighteen. Yes it is last. I checked it out there for a very very long time. So what have you been working on. Well one thing that that one of the projects that I've been working on a had an interesting. I guess twist this week so a bit of advice to all you developers out there. Make sure that all stakeholders for any particular project are there at the beginning of of the discovery for a project instead of close to the middle because they're really matter. Oh this particular client plant had a bunch of phone conferences with some other players are the major users of the system Tom and then at one point last week. The project manager said Oh yeah well we really should talk to this other guy the one who deals the finances because he probably wants to see some different information and I said okay great you know we can add any any fields that he will need related to the project etc we can add those in shouldn't be that big of a deal and then of course he gets on a conference call. Paul and walking through this system with him and he says Oh oh that's great but I'm GonNa need and proceeds to list off a bunch of do things some fields and kind of concepts even that no one else had brought up yet but were necessary for the success. Oh yeah this project for him and for him to be able to use it so you know of course next week. They would like to get the system onto their servers so they can and start. Beta testing it so we we have to add a bunch of new things new workflows and build out quite a few new things to have how this match his needs. We've worked with this client for a long time. However this project is working with a different team than we've worked with in the past but unlike the other projects that we've we've been working on this one. They're like Oh and we would like to start using this with no testing testing as soon as possible well for for all intents and purposes I guess in their defense slightly they think of it as an interface to data that is being spit out from a different system and this is just going to give them away to work with it a little easier but yeah that they aren't thinking it through through and and if they Beta tested they're gonNa Beta tested and immediately say oh bull bull why can't do this and when will it do such in such and where's the report that I need. We say oh you mean the report that you did not tell us about yet and did not define in any way shape or form arm old that report sure give us a day and will make your report for you and that's another piece. That's uncommon for this client because they project managed managed. They they give us a project manager. Who's excellent and just this particular team and the project manager. They have no oh system in place to deal with any of this so it's completely nude the other projects that we've worked on with them were redesigns. Bro and rebuild of an existing solution which is a completely different beast than coming up with something from scratch when the the people who are going to use it don't even know what they need yet so it's it's a little bit of challenge but we look forward to challenges challenges but yes as I said make sure that you get everybody in the room or on the call early on. I I guess the lesson that I should take away from this is to make a point at the beginning of a project to list list all of the parties and make sure that they are involved because while this is not GonNa burn anybody you know this is not a bad situation. Had this been a bigger solution or a more complex solution and somebody came in in late in the game and said Oh wait. Whoa we you know we need this whole other piece. You know that can actually that happened with the client last year. He said well. We have these types of where the other labs specifications. We have three different labs specifications. That's let's it only three you have to define the type of the labs specification. We work on those and then at the eleventh hour. He says Oh wait. There's one more that I forgot about that. We have to have in here. Luckily the way the system was designed. It was very flexible that it's simply created created. All of the list layouts and most of the details are all based on the same table and simply based on the type the layout would change slightly or some we see would be hidden so they were like enough to not be a major pain but again you can't things are going to happen. Stuff's GONNA come come up. You won't be happy about it but you know you do your best to get as much information in front and as many people in front so what are are we talking about tonight. Thomas a couple months ago. We did an episode that was the I think I called it. The Google auto fill game. I I remember that yes okay yeah. I was fun since we've gotten no feedback on that episode. I'm going to assume that people loved it out. That's probably a safe assumption the do it again okay. What's the phrase of the evening too late. We're GONNA try can file maker. Okay and we'll see what comes up okay so what came cam file maker pro export to excel why is again. It really came Yup. That's one of the so found maker being a wonderful platform all around one of the things that does best is spit out files and a variety of formats when I started work on the phone maker Twenty five years ago. That was one of the things things that I was like whenever we using it. I was working at a university and they said Oh just pick some database and build something they you know one thing that I liked about foul make because I like the interface right away but I got to tell my boss at the time the all different ways you could export data from it so it's like like if this product goes away because products came and went very quickly Batman. If this product goes away we can still get the data out of it right. Because it spits data data you wouldn't get tax we can get we can get the data out a CSV as we can get the data out as xl s we. Can you know there's there were several options that were for all very useful very useful very doable. Yeah An- and people especially in offices love excel spreadsheets do they. Do you have a person who who likes excel a little too much because for the most part I mean people like to view data and excel because it's it's easy excels great for spreadsheets. Yeah Yeah Excel is not a database and analysis on the kids. That's where it gets frustrating right and that's one of the like one of our many complaints about table view. Is that in table view if you expose table view to a customer who doesn't know exactly what they're are doing. They expected to act like a spreadsheet and it can't doesn't they may look the same but they cannot act the same filmmaker camp export to excel. How easy is it to export to excel? It's pretty easy so they added save records. There's those an option the foul menu for save send as and you can select excel or pdf right and whenever you select excel found file maker exports whatever it is you're looking at so the layout you're on it. Exports all the fields that are on the current layout and the records from the current found set one of the most practical uses of that is if you're looking at a report and they want the report to go to excel so that they can do whatever they want to do some cross tab reporting or something like that which you can do foul maker with some effort right but anyway if you're looking at a report you do save as Save Send as excel then you get an X. L. S. X. File with the fields that you're currently looking at in the order that you're looking at the records that you're looking at right so it's it's a more direct or a cleaner way to export then using the straight eight file export records command so that's the other way that you can export as excel is to use the export command and whether you whichever one you use they both give you the options for they have some excel auctions where you can fill in the name of the worksheet the title subject the author just like. Excel let you do that is Meta data for the file and but the difference between using the file expert records is south. One of the differences is that you have to define the fields you've to select which feel right. It doesn't say it like when you do that it will use the context that you're in and show all of the feels in the column on the left or you pick the fields for the export. It's using using your current context and also gives you the ability to switch to any related table but you have to sit there and doubleclick in four for select and hit move for everything that you want to include in the export and based on the sort you can also group yes so that's the that's the that's the long and short of it. Norman short of it. I'm Kinda. Matz next can foul maker open access files ooh. This is an excellent one. No no we can't. I actually never ever used access. I've never like I've never seen it. I've never opened up a file with. I've never had to work with access at all because primarily throughout my adult life I've worked in Mac environments so in every job that I've had it's been primarily Mac and if it wasn't even if it was windows the database ace solutions that they were working on foul maker because I was the in house filmmaker developer so I didn't have to work with access because there wasn't any oh aw I envy you that you never had to deal with it or I find it unpleasant okay. We'll search seek it out for any reason because I mean access was that came bundled with the Microsoft as part of Microsoft Office in accesses is actually pretty integrated with the operating system which is why there's no Mac version of it lace. That's my understanding. foul makers not deeply integrated rated into the MAC operating system now but it's it's an well Bento. That's different. Maybe someday we'll back in Dale. Do a Bento doing do a rant. I never actually spent Oh. You're going to expand your horizons at some point like go back fifteen fifteen years and will not look. Bento okay anyway so next can file maker send emails. Yes it can yes. There's a couple of ways to send emails within foul maker one way that you're using filmmaker but you're also using plug ins. There's lots of plug ins that can handle the the email. Send some plug INS that can send emails three sixty works has an email plug in they have a cloud plug in CNS has as SMTP it day cons has mail it okay. NBS which does everything of course sends emails as well as doing everything everything else. I haven't used any plug ins for sending email so the reason to use a plug in to send an email versus than native breath. Send email script step is because you get additional functionality one feature that is to actually be a big deal to some users is the ability to send multiple patrons right which bumper seventeen has now another one feature that the day cons mail it plug in has is the ability to send a layout as an inline image which for a product that I had that was is critical to that product at the time and so what's Nice about. Oh my gosh was so let's say you're doing an invoice and and you design a lovely invoice using foul makers lay out tools right so you can send that you could send that as an email attachment which just fine insensitive pdf but there's something nice about being able to send it as an inline image so whenever they open up the email right is the invoice and it's nice. It looks great so that's one feature. I really really like and most of these plugin companies. I only say most because I I haven't used some of them so I don't have experience with them to plug in companies have been very good with fixing bugs and updating and right you know adding features descartes's. Descartes's I've been using for for years and years and they're very responsive. the only other one that I've that I have experience. It's with specifically for email was three sixty works at a quite some time ago. Okay I was doing a project where that's the client already had that plug in so I just worked with that. aside from the plug ins there are two ways to send email using being the native send email script stop when you select that script up and then double click to get to the properties of that you can select the the email client or using SMTP server we how in the past I used when I was an in house developer that system used these send email send via email client option and I am not a hundred two percent sure if this is still an issue but in that environment so we had found maker and then they had outlook on all of the machines and we had an outlook server one of the issues that we would run into was a kind of a hand off issue between filmmaker outlook and and a foul maker in in a Lotta these situations where foul makers taking data and then passing get off to another program whether it's sending an external event or a sending an email like in this case there is not a lot found like is not. I'm doing a whole lot. It's bundling up this information just handing off and then it's gone and they we always had these issues where people people what would what we would call it was the handshake so the handshake between foul maker and outlook would not let go so afoul maker would hand the data to outlook to create a new email and it would put in the recipients and maybe drop in a subject and drop in some predefined text for the body and the user would sit there and you know try to fill out some more of the body and then they would try to click out of outlook outlook to do something they want to look something up and they couldn't outlook was because we were in a script than outlook look wanted to continue and send that email until it could hand it back to file maker and foul maker would end the script and kind of go on. It's Mary the way that send the email. Client was always a little problematic in our environment just due to outlook. I'm not I don't know if that's still abegg issue or not we tend to use the SMTP server option and our what we also do is in our global global stable we always have a set of of the SMTP fields we very very rarely will hard code in the SMTP options of the send mouse descript stop. The actual data will have a set of global fields and we just dropped those in wherever using it throughout the scripts in the system. That's what I tend to do is uncle musicals and then in the business settings or in the script you can set those wobbles and kind of go on your merry way usually don't change that very much. We've got one client with solution that they have we have two sets of SMTP settings in there because if they are in the building they need to use one SMTP the user a user and log in and you know I P information and then if they're outside the building they have different account that they're supposed to be using so based on where they are then they switch between those. SMTP set that make sense. Yes so so yes file maker can send emails yes and when you do you can select for. There's people that are not very familiar without maker. Listen it. Lets you set up the regular settings like the server and ports and all that kind of stuff but it also lets you set who the emails to what the CC BCC subject and body all can be generated from filmmaker fields right right and another thing 'cause we actually just in the last couple of months we had somebody who at one of the meet ups and we were talking about being able to send an the male and they were like what really really you mean that I would have to you know I could just click on a somebody's email address in it could send an email. Will we said yeah sure so. We'll wait a minute. I have this report that I usually send to everybody in this list and I have to go through and Click on each thing you know how would would I have to do that and we said Oh no you could set up a script that loops through and just you can be very flexible generate reports on the fly have server side script that scheduled old that runs once an hour and looks for new jobs in emails and the appropriate parties anything you can think about you can do as usual with filmmaker. GRA that gets in trouble in some says can you do this and I'm like yeah sure. Filmmaker can do anything can it can can file maker run time connect to server because that's the national next one no no it can't and do you have a lot of experience with run times because for years you had vertical products that were run time. That's how you distributed your product people yeah most most of the users most of the customers would use it as a runtime a number of them would get it and integrated into their existing filmmaker system or use their existing filmmaker server but the vast majority were using it as run times but I would get this question every once in a while like Oh. I you know we have a filmmaker solution separate separate from this this is just running on my machine but can we connect this to the server and found like a run times do not connect to the server they have not connected to the server since file maker two or three they did connect to the server back then okay for those listeners who don't know what a runtime is. Let's around a run. Time is a self-contained thank you runtime is a self contained copy of foul maker pro that is bound to some files. The files are actually bound to the run time so the so the engine afoul maker engine included with the layouts right so this lets you this. Lets you create a foul maker solution and send it as a runtime unbundled to somebody that does not have found like a pro but they can open up and do whatever it is whatever the solution is designed to do and they have the ability to read and write data. They do not have the ability within the run time to modify the files to do add fields sir layout sir anything like that but when you create a runtime. Nubile bind the files to the runtime engine. You have have the ability to permanently remove admin access okay which means the files can never be modified structurally okay. That's is good for things like little kiosks or were you. You certainly don't want the end user to be modifying anything they just but they need. They need to be able to use the file. Oh by you know either just reading because there are some solutions that that's all it is is retrieval of data or to read and write so that's run times and they do not connect to server right so the next one is Kellyanne filmmaker connect to sequel server. It can connect to sequel sequel databases. Yes so you can create shadow tables in your filmmaker solution that point two sequel tables that can be housed on a sequel server so there's a couple of steps involved in that you set up your sequel server you have to create a DS N. Four every system that needs access to the sequel server and and in file maker when you add your external reference you use the Esn so dsm send stands for data source name and that's something that you set up in the system where the data lips so if the sequel server is sitting on your windows server on your network you create a Dsm when using the ODBC sat up on that machine and you can give it a name and it's pretty simple to set up then from file maker when you create your external reference you can pick that day or put in at d. S. N. and file maker then is able to reach across the D. S. N. To select the sequel tables and then create the shadow tables inside filmmaker found maker could essentially be a front end to sequel data or you could push on pool information across very easily so depending on what it is you're doing with sequel son's arm situations. You may just needed as referenced because in Your Business. There's the invoicing system is has has sequel as its back end and so from file maker you want to be able to see those invoices whether you need to interact racked with those or not you can if those permissions are enabled and Matt System but it's very easy to set up. I think well you know there. There are a bunch of steps but it's not a terrifying situation are totally grew that it's not as bad as it would seem seem right the first time. I heard about it. which was you know earlier on in my career it sounds intimidating right and once you do it? It's like Oh let really was contrite. Can you want you set up that gateway to see the other system. then it's that it all comes down to what do you. WanNa be able to do and shadow tables or not that hard to work with and you can even do think you can do some cool stuff with them right yeah. There's some there's some limitations basically one main one is is you cannot retrieve an index of a field in the shadow table so so anything requiring an index you can't do that. You can't create a dynamic hammock value list. You can't in took us type ahead in things like but but you could create a summary feels or calculation fields in the shadow table. That's referencing data in those other fields which is pretty cool. Oh and another thing if you are attached to some sequel data you can then use the execute sequel script step which reaches across the DS is an to access that data and gives you full access to sequel commands which is not the execute sequel function right they are they are different. They're they're not the same. They are different right so let's next can file maker import access databases. No and that's enough about access can file maker send text messages so I'm guessing because this is showing up on this list. This must be a relatively common. I don't think about this yeah we don't our customers aren't as interested in text messages. Our customer base has a tendency to be all about email. They one email notifications. Roy they don't like text this much but the short answer would be yes using a plugin right or is that a is that a plug program. Lincoln acts I think so because we don't have experience with text messages we finished the sentence in in Google can foul maker send text messages. It is and what did we come up with and we found the product. FM SMS which actually I know been around for a long time because I've looked at this before so this this solution solution. FM SIMS is built by data buzz which is a filmmaker company in Australia and it uses plug in to do some of the magic but whenever you get this solution which you can plug into your current solution what they give you his fully unlocked okay and you have access to everything and that gives you the ability to send SMS text messages through foul maker and she check that out we are. We can't say a lot more about it because we have not used it right. I think it looks promising and it's dub dub dot F. M. S. M. S. DOT dot com. I can think of a couple people who might who who we work with now who have not asked for this but might be excited to we'll explore the possibilities yeah so one can follow that did not show up is. Ken Filmmaker Run Mojave Right and it it. Can I have not updated to Mojave at. I'm really good at saying. Remind me tomorrow. Remind me tomorrow. Remind me tomorrow about everything everything that POPs up on my computer monitor so yeah I have not updated yet but you have I did and filmmaker seventeen nineteen runs on Mojave. there are a couple known bugs. Okay when you're writing a script the column of operators that shows does does not show the operators from what I've seen. That's the biggest issue I mean. I don't know we never yeah. I never click. I don't click on those anyway so it. It doesn't really affect my development at all. Some of the other bugs just have to do with display issues when you're think it's when you're in a defining in a button L. K. and the field for the icon size at least on my machine and I'm not using dark mode. This is just irregular. I can't read the text in there. Okay unless you highlight it. Y- or on highlighted I yeah I I had the same since they since the button properties and a lot of them slider properties this windows. They have that black background behind them. It's made things a little bit more difficult to see. I think in general are all yeah. There's a few things like that but I've found developing in seventeen on mojave just fine connecting to remote servers that are just on other machines elsewhere and some that are found like cloud yeah works that all works well. I haven't had any any trouble at all now. Running filmmaker I sixteen because I still have some solutions on fourteen servers. Pharma Kevin Teen will not connect to a fourteen server so we use foul maker Sixteen and hand. I've had all kinds of issues. How really yeah so it can see the server in it can connect to the files. Ben Navigating within the file now the layouts what's that I'm dealing with on the solution I work with most often they're relatively complex layouts ladder layers tabs and sliders and stuff like that they do not refresh they do not the the screens just won't redraw and show to customer that has called called. They actually thought there data was gone because they couldn't see the because they just see the list wouldn't come up on the list. Views wouldn't come up. It just wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't draw and what I found on mind. Well it will if you wait an hour or probably exaggerating a little bit there no but but it's still it's quite problematic. If you're using maker sixteen. I absolutely not upgrade okay. That's a little scary yeah. I wonder if foul maker will hopefully filmmaker will put out an update for sixteen or would be noise because I know there's probably a fair number of people who have not not updated to seventeen or who just haven't moved to it wrote. Well and I guess the other thing earlier you were talking about run times times. If anyone out there has a runtime based solution that is running on an engine younger than seventeen eighteen they will have that runtime solution will have the same refreshes right yes right the just as an FYI. I take anyone who distributes the run time. Even if it's a little utility that you gave out you know give out to staff to run something small on the network. They could have problems with it. It might need you might need to redeploy as a seventeen run time here anything else nope that is all. I wanted to talk talk about today. Excellent low talked about Yup. I gotTA FINISH MY CIDER. Finish my thanks. Thanks for listening to me for sure. I'm glad you listen. Sorry so thank you for listening. Just thank you very much. Anybody has any questions or comments. You can drop us a line at off the record at profiled developers dot com Tom on the interwebs yes. We hope you're enjoying the content and we will talk at you again. Soon all right thanks again. Thank you bye-bye

project manager Thomas Josh Google Mojave developer Tom Paul doubleclick Ken Filmmaker Microsoft NBS Matz Norman Descartes
How the White House rehabilitated Saudi Arabias reputation after the death of Jamal Khashoggi

Post Reports

31:14 min | 1 year ago

How the White House rehabilitated Saudi Arabias reputation after the death of Jamal Khashoggi

"This post reports podcast is sponsored by fidelity financial planning that moves with your life learn more at fidelity dot com slash your goals fidelity brokerage services number. NYSE SIPC IPC from the newsroom of the Washington Post Ross Helderman post This is post reports Martine powers. It's Wednesday October second today the US relationship with Saudi Arabia the isolated Homeland Security Kirti chief and a stunning discovery in one year ago October the second that is the day win smoker show G. walked into a consulate in Istanbul and he didn't come out and what do we know about what happened to him. There eventually we came to learn that he was dismembered by a group of Saudi agents and his body was removed and to this day we do not know where that body is and it's important to point out that Tamaki was a columnist for the post and and that is widely believed that he was killed in that consulate because of his open criticism of the Saudi Arabian royal family the the CIA has determined with medium to high confidence that the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman ordered cookies killing that has been something that has has been a stain on the effective leader of Saudi government and his relationships all around the world. It has been a stain among the European leaders. The whole house will join me in condemning the killing of Jamal Khashoggi in the strongest possible terms has been harshly condemned and in the United States in leaders in Congress the murder of Kashogi is in atrocity and an affront to humanity and the days after his disappearance members of Congress both sides of the aisles besides the Congress demanded information and dedicated ourselves to holding perpetrators accountable and and Republicans as well. NBS The crown prince is a wrecking ball. I think he's complicit in the murder Mr Shoghi to the highest level level possible. I think the behavior before the Kashogi murder was beyond disturbing and I cannot see him being a reliable partner to the United Yard states for the past year Mohammed bin Salman has been quiet when it comes to Kashogi at least until this week when sixty minutes aired aired an interview in which he fully denied any involvement with the killing absolutely not this was a heinous crime. Mike and I take full responsibility as a leader in Saudi Arabia especially since it was committed by individuals working for the Saudi government. What does that mean. Can you take responsibility when a crime is committed against Saudi citizen by officials working for the Saudi government as a leader. I must take responsibility ability that this was a mistake and I must take all actions to avoid such a thing in the future. Eleven officials have been standing trial in Saudi Arabia since since January. The kingdom has not named any of the defendants and the trial is taking place behind closed doors. There's very little that we're allowed to learn about the names names and identities what we do know is a top adviser to NBS Kettani who the United States believes has awesome responsibility for the murder and has actually sanctioned is not one of the eleven and so there have already been a lot of criticisms about how it's being conducted the lack of transparency and whether or not it has the scope that the international community believes it should have given at least as the US intelligence community understanding that this went all the way to the top so what was the international response like after Khashoggi's death and after it became clear that Mohammed bin Salman was very likely involved in it. The the international response was widespread condemnation. This is not something that happens very often. You do not have someone who is a US resident who is a columnist for a permanent US newspaper being killed for the things that they have written it is it was widely condemned and even inside the trump administration instauration president trump made a number of remarks at the outset saying that this looked like a total cover up and it looked like a grisly salie murder and at the at the original outset it was not downplayed original concept it was carried out poorly and the cover up was one of the worst in the history of coverups. It's very simple bad. Deal should have never been thought of somebody really messed up and they had the worst cover ever and we're should've understaffed is at the deal stamp what they thought about it because whoever thought of that idea. I think he's in big trouble and they should be in big trouble. Shortly after the death and after the immediate outrage the trump administration made a calculated decision and that decision was that they were going to preserve IRV the US Saudi relationship look Saudi Arabia's that have really great ally. They've been one of the biggest investors maybe the biggest investor country that they are doing doing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of investments and so many jobs so many jobs thousands and thousands of jobs not only that they were also going to preserve the relationship the president trump his son-in-law jared Kushner and his secretary of state at cultivated with with the crown prince this young thirtysomething leader who was supposed to bring Saudi Arabia into a new fold even though Bambi s had been significantly damaged by this and by all of the accusations about his role in the murder they were going to hang by with him and president trump and secretary of state. Mike Pompeo took two different paths about how to rehabilitate that image for president trump he was probably in. May really the most honest actor in this whole situation he said from the get-go the Middle East is a messy place and Saudi Arabia buys a lot from the United States and that's something that shouldn't be easily squandered when you take a look into rough part of the world. It's a it's a nasty place. It's a nasty part of the world but if what happened happened and if the facts checkout it's something that's very bad at the same time. They have been a very very good ally of ours. They've been helping us a lot with respect to Israel. They've been funding a lot of things and he said I'm not one of those stupid. People who says I'm not just going to not do business with Saudi Arabia and so from that point on he set the tone which was the United States is going to continue its relationship relationship with Saudi Arabia Secretary of State. Mike Pompeo took a different route pompeo made these soaring promises that the United States was going to get to the bottom of this that would be held accountable. They're going to figure out what has gone on and there have already taken significant steps of capability. He frequently cited visa restrictions on twenty two people suspected of involvement in Jamal Kashoggi's murder and every time he's asked about a year out he says the same thing we are going to get to the bottom of we're not ruling out future steps but here we are a year out and no one has been charged charged with their involvement in the murder we still do not have Jamal Kashoggi's body and beyond that there have not been further author punishments other than saying that you can't travel to the United States and let's be real anybody who's involved in a high profile murder of this nature sure is not going to return to the United States. It's just it's just laughable and I think that the tack that President Trump and Mike Pompeo have taken has kind of given a cue to the rest of the world like you look at the international outcry that happened right after Caccia Staff and the I widespread criticisms of NBS and then you look at how he was greeted at the g twenty this summer where he was no longer this persona non grata that he he is beginning to be like back in the good graces of world leaders absolutely the G. Twenty seven it was a great example of the the key western powers powerful countries getting close to him taking photographs with him in the case of South Korea's signing memorandums of understanding with with him worth billions of dollars. it was an important moment is rehabilitation in the coming weeks. We might see a further moment of rehabilitation as the Saudi Arabia the plans it's Davos in the desert when like an annual conference and brings into world leader is and business leaders enrich people and influential people and absolutely take their annual investment conference and last year. A lot of companies were spooked a lot of CEOS pulled out according to a attendees list reviewed reviewed by the Washington Post. A number of blue chip firms are back in and so we've already seen it. It's not the first time but the re normalization formalization of MBBS is coming and what do you think is driving. This renomination is that that people just ultimately we don't think that they're going to be more answers on Kashogi staff or an ability to pin down and es more than he's already been pinned down that people don't really care about that death that political and business relationships with Saudi Arabia just so advantageous that they can't be sacrificed. Yeah I mean we are talking talking about Saudi Arabia. We're talking about one of the world's largest producers of oil. It's what drives the global economy and so to the extent that Saudi Arabia and its leadership is inconvenient that can become inconvenient for business leaders as well and so there was an incentive to go business as usual if NBS was not going to be removed and the US made clear from the beginning that it was not going to make an effort to recommend pressure or lobby the Saudi rulers to remove NBS with so with that with that settled it was going to return turned business as usual so even though M B S has come out pretty unscathed from this honestly a year later do you. I think they're a long term ramifications for him and for Saudi Arabia from the aftermath of Kashogi Sta. Yeah a number of analysts sir divided on this. I mean some say. NBS has come out unscathed the trump administration has successfully rehabilitated him on the international stage others say not so fast they look at the US Saudi relationship as something that has been tacitly or at least fully in some cases endorsed by both parties in the United States and now the U. S. Saudi relationship has become a source of partisan tension. There's a lot more questions about the US Saudi relationship. There's a lot more questions about the billions in dollars of arms sales the United States send over to Saudi Arabia the lot more questions about scrutiny of the US support for the Saudi coalition in Yemen. Those things have been tested in ways that they've never been tested before and so there is some analysts are looking at this and saying while NBS is temporarily okay. Hey the U. S. Saudi relationship might have been permanently damaged. Johnson Hudson covers national security for the post. A memorial service was held today outside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul where Kashogi was last. I seen there were speeches from Jeff Basis. The owner of the Post Fred Ryan the publisher. The Post and Kashoggi's fiance had TJ Jen Geeze lost career today. I was standing here. I was ago in low waiting for my man to come out of the conflate. We wanted to go to the dinner. We want to invite all friends. Too are waiting no afterwards year in my life eyestone here but fraud Kevin McLean is the acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and he was put in place after trump removed cures to Nielsen from that job back in April. I'm Nick Mira. I cover the Department of Homeland Security and immigration enforcement for the Washington Post mcelwain and to me is one of the most fascinating figures in the whole trump administration. He is is essentially in charge of one of the most important issues to the president that being immigration enforcement. He is the acting acting secretary but in the six months that he's been on the job. His focus has almost entirely been on trying to get the crisis at the border under under control. CPI is facing an unprecedented humanitarian and border security crisis all along our southwest border and says a hugely important issue to the President President and the White House and the president personally have seen it as a liability for his reelection. How could a president who runs on a tough immigration message then preside over the worst kind of border crisis in more than a decade with let's remember in. May One hundred and forty four thousand people being taken into custody along the border. We haven't and seen numbers like that and more than twelve years so McLennan's job was to get that under control so in the six months since he stepped stepped into this acting role in the middle of this crisis. How successful has he been in trying to manage it well. He's been really successful. I mean if we're just looking at the Rau- numbers the number of people taken into custody each month by US border agents is down by two thirds since that peak in May the administration has also implemented a series of executive measures that are designed to prevent another big surge of this type and mcelwain and personally Italy has managed to secure bilateral agreements with Central American countries that will potentially allow the United States to send asylum seekers from the US border back to those countries. We've also got a deal with the Mexican government that you recall came after the president threatened Mexico with tariffs that has resulted in the US sending more than about fifty thousand people back into Mexican border cities and very dangerous cities to wait on the Mexican side of the border while their cases are are processed in the US courts. All of these measures have made it significantly more difficult for Central Americans to come across the border and be released into the interior of the United States dates while they have some kind of pending immigration claim and so you know he has done the one thing he has delivered on the one thing that mattered the most of the president which has to drive live the border numbers down even though he doesn't talk about immigration or message on immigration the way that other officials in the and the trump administration do how does does he talk about or message about immigration especially if he it sounds like his big job is basically to execute exactly what president trump once it is and he has done that he has been at the center of so many of the trump administration's most controversial immigration enforcement measures and yet one of the things that's notable full about the way he talks about immigration enforcement is he doesn't use the term illegal aliens he talks about vulnerable families and he speaks about migrants not as has as a criminal horde that is that is invading the country but as as vulnerable families who are being victimized by smuggling organizations and who are mostly coming here for economic reasons or for or for you know respectable reasons but not that there's some sort of grave threat to American security he comes from kind of more traditional law enforcement perspective and wants to try to maintain and sort of protect. D H S and the immigration enforcement forcement mission from this kind of extreme polarization that has occurred under trump and what are some of the ways where he kinda comes into conflict flaked with president trump or president trump's ideas when it comes to how to perform border enforcement without making it highly politicized with. That's gotten him into trouble several times. There was an episode earlier this year. When Ice Immigration and customs enforcement you know had this well. It's called the family operation ration- they were ready to go forward with a mass roundup of Central American families that had come across the border and been released into the into the United States and had not shown up for their court dates and so I had this plan on on on the shelf for awhile and was eager to put it into practice but at right at that moment McLean and was arguing arguing was was pleading with lawmakers for a for a four point six billion dollars supplemental emergency package to alleviate some of the worst conditions at the border and so he didn't want to inflame the Democrats who he was trying to to win support for this for this aid package and he was also concerned that this would result once more and the separation of of children from their parents. He was very much burned by the by his his role. In in the zero. Tolerance family separations of last year regretted his his role in that and said that he said that he regrets helping to put child's operations in place that's right. He played the central role in one of the most controversial things that the administration has done and now recognizes that publicly as a mistake and has said that he would not do that again. He has told when he took the acting secretary job he told others that he would resign before he have to separate children from their parents again that it was one of the most damaging coaching episodes and then he did his words that see BP had lost the public trust that had done something that was so beyond the Pale that they had really undermined remind you know their support among the American public so it sounds that in a lot of ways he's trying to tamp down on the harsher impulses sometimes hence coming from president trump or from the White House on immigration he is and that's what's made him so much of an outsider in this administration. He's done things just in the past few weeks that you wouldn't really expect from other trump officials particularly at a time when things are getting even more combative and contentious he gave a big speech last month they were sponsored by notably sponsored by the Brookings Institution and by heritage that was about the risks of domestic terrorism and white nationalism really kind of saying some of the most strongest August statements that anyone in this ministrations come out with about the growing threat of of these types of groups to American national security and so that's something you wouldn't you know necessarily expect at this moment he also reversed a you know an effort by Ken Cuccia the Acting Director of US citizenship and immigration services who is more more of a hard liner he had pushed a proposal that would have basically ended a program that allows migrants were in the country. Um I'm facing. Deportation allows them to stay there. Undergoing some sort of life threatening you know medical care and they have some it's called medical deferred action and so so in the kitchen I wanted to end it and mcelwain and came in and reverse that and said no and so you had trump administration official doing something actually kind of you know help. you know migrants in the country illegally not something you would expect but you know again. That's an example of the way he's tried to kind of moderate some of the harsher edge so at what point does that come into conflict right because I mean you've reported on the fact that president trump had wanted into put spikes on the top of a border wall to deter people from trying to cross. We've heard more reporting like from the time this week that there was discussion about putting a moat with alligators and snakes on the border trying to shoot it people who were crossing the border when you pair that with this person who is at least for now in charge of this agency agency who's taking a much more moderated approach talking in a more humane way. What did he have to say about how much his thinking in his actions are in many ways at odds with his bosses why I think that has become a growing source of frustration for him he in our interview talked about how he he does have operational control of the department of d h s he can coordinate the response of the border for example but he feels like he has lost control full of the kind of public messaging on immigration enforcement as other figures like Kuching Alley or the Acting Commissioner of CB Mark Morgan are out there very much embracing the president's kind of harsher impulses and rhetoric and certainly appear more like the kinds of officials you would want as surrogates. It's in a campaign mode versus someone like mcelwain and who actually has you know experience in running these agencies and has been running them and so one of the great ironies of mcleans tenure is that he's been very effective at the thing that has mattered most getting this crisis under control because he does have the experience but just totally and message wise. He doesn't really really fit in this administration and you know has been very conflicted about implementing some of these measures that are going to be his legacy in that job and if he is the acting secretary of d h s he has not been formally nominated by President trump that difference in rhetoric and tone. What does that say about his potential future. I think his potential future looks more and more shaky. I mean he has been in the job in the acting role longer than any other acting ahead of D H s since the creation of the department after September eleventh you know this is an agency that was formed after the September eleventh terrorist attacks and since since then successive. US presidents have played a big emphasis on having a Senate confirmed senior figure in that role to sort of reassure the American public that there was somebody at the wheel here we have him in this acting capacity for now six months with no sign of a nomination even though he's basically done the job the way that the White House has wanted and that's because I think a lot about the way that the trump administration is running the government and leaving so many of these basic functions of government administration in in this in this kind of disorganized and ad hoc way Nick Mir off covers the Department of Homeland Security for the post Uh Uh what's on your list a financial goals buying a new house strengthening your retirement plan all of the above whatever you're saving for fidelity personalized planning and advice ice can help you reach those goals with digital planning plus one on one personal coaching all with low transparent pricing to learn more visit fidelity dot com slash. Yes your goals or call one eight hundred three four three three five four eight advisory services offered for a fee by fidelity personal workplace advisors. LLC and brokerage services this is provided by fidelity brokerage services LLC and now one more thing a newly discovered audio recording and you hear people yelling and you hear these planes going over this incredible din of any aircraft craft fire the correspondent trying to narrate what's going on and he's voices drowned out in different parts by racket gunfire missile any of the ships around see nothing in the night no fires or anything of that time You're hearing you're hearing the battle underway way. My name is Mike rheuame. and I cover her history among other things for the Washington Post. The original audio recording was discovered discovered by a man named Bruce Campbell on Monday. Campbell donated these tapes to the National D Day Memorial in Virginia. He found these things about the thirty years ago in a house that he bought up a long island and he didn't know what they were there. In the basement of his house gusty in boxes the house had been the vacation house of an executive of a company New York that manufactured this very reproductive tape-recording machine called a record graph which is what the correspondent used the Sky George Hicks exc on the deck of the ship the night if d day Dieppe alligators gone beyond a night tonight Bruce Campbell Nelson Florida didn't know what to do with this stuff. He didn't know what it was didn't know what these tapes contained contained and over the course of the years he did a lot of research and found a technician in England who was familiar here with this now. Long obsolete recording machine took these tapes over England and when they played them they heard this incredible George Hicks report from the night of the day and maybe I had planned. There's always stuff cropping up on on history fronts all over the place. I mean that's one of the things that I love about my job because there's so much history stuff that gurgles. It's up all over. They just think it's an incredible find and it may be even bigger than we realize. We may not really know how important this stuff is until experts are able to go through it all and put all the pieces of this basement puzzle if you will together and a who knows how important this could be in in the last few minutes writing planning planning now Guy People should go into the basement to look around. Mike Rouen rates at history for the pets now the black out and that's it for today. Show thanks for listening and if post next report's has become a part of your daily routine consider leaving us a review on apple podcasts or whatever app you use one listener named be. Coenen left a review last week. They said I'm subscribed to post newspaper which I do enjoy reading but post reports is still the best twenty eight minutes of my day things for spending the time with us because I'm Martine powers. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post What's on your list financial goals buying a new house strengthening your retirement plan all of the above whatever you're saving for fidelity personalized planning and advice can help you reach those goals with digital planning plus one on one personal coaching all with low transparent pricing to learn more visit fidelity dot com slash your goals or call one eight hundred three four three three five four eight advisory services offered for a fee by fidelity personal and workplace advisors l._l._C. and brokerage services provided by fidelity brokerage services L._L._c.

Saudi Arabia United States president President Trump Saudi government Washington Post murder Saudi Arabian Saudi Crown secretary Kashogi Mike Pompeo NBS Saudi consulate Jamal Khashoggi Prince Mohammad bin Salman Department of Homeland Securit Istanbul NBS Jamal Kashoggi
Seans Cthulhu Game  2

Gaming and BS RPG Podcast

1:22:09 hr | 1 year ago

Seans Cthulhu Game 2

"How many companions were they at. What's going on good for your show. Welcome the episode two fifty nine of Gaming. NBS being recorded Sunday September a twenty one thousand nine hundred zero sean an umbrella. Welcome show folks. Welcome back tasty tasty my buddy jeff awesome awesome so the context of that if you wanted the rewind it thirty seconds is that he got hit in the chest with a sniper in the woods kind of thing. They threw a personality. You know snipers person person right no well. I mean sniper shot him. There you go in common. He was approached in the line so they attacked uh-huh and he served surrendered and then that's Jeff's interrogation method. It's a good technique start soft quiet a lot of questions rapid fire Bev. 'em briefs brief stint of quiet. Go for the throat with a boisterous answer me. I like it I would. I be cringing from a guy like that yeah right rightfully. So how was your weekend. Man was low key. No gaming you know gaming. Okay no gaming you. I went up to my hometown. A my buddy. Nick was wearing his game did not plan that because I got too late in don't have cared for that game. They're right in the middle of this really cool thing anyway so I sat back and did some avalon Evelyn work work for custom next projects that Christner's kicking around over on our on our forums played around out there for it and then got ready for an ever con- meeting which startup most of my Saturday morning and then came back then today I said Hey. Aj To my son because his name's Asia they so they on the woods is in move. My tree stand around little bit. Jira archery season opens next weekend. Well clear couple shooting lanes you and he goes yeah. That'd be funded pack up. Go out there meet landowner again talk to him the Sun too nice guys go out in the woods kicking around then I hear the zoo feel of the first be staying motherfucker now look up and there's a cloud of them around my head. So I got swarmed was miserable. I only got seven of them. Hit me but the one right above my right eye like right underneath your eyebrow and that little little fold of your eyelid yet that's where I fucking hurt. They only got stung wants but I got seven of them. Bam Bam Bam and there's something about swarms I get out and of course being an Uber Gamer nerd kind of dude. I'm like man that's miserable at. Ag Goes Yeah. That was Kinda scary. When that happens it said the whole little back brain that will lizard monkey part of your back brain is like screaming at you to run away in panic. Nick is really hard. I mean not even comparative to other swarms that people have been hit with flying biting insects or you know of any kind but it's it didn't it induces panic rapidly so I'm going to have to do that in a game have to nail somebody with swarm. I haven't done that in a while like we need to do that. Swarms swarms are bitch Jesus. It was so painful like it's just horribly loud noise inner ear. Things are crawling on you trying to trying to stab W. and you can't you can't you don't open your eyes because they're darting at your face and you're getting pain stabs little needles. You're on fire could feel poison in you that sucks and you can swat and flail you want and you can't kill him. A bizarre is a really overwhelming feeling. Isn't that fun but al I do. This warm is released where they came from so I will not go to that section of the woods for a while until it's cold and frozen Murray and find their little nest and stumped the living fuck out of in vengeance now. They're bees but anyway. I just won't go that way until it's cold day. Usually either not too bad got too close. I must've stepped on it or came really really close to it. I've seen people going to hives. I mean they're raising bees and they don't do anything to them. I did something I don't know what I did was done on your -tated. Them dropped a Bush on them something because I was hacking limbs at the Queen Man Oh Jeez it was it's not fun okay well. You know you're gonNA be okay man. I'll be alright in constellation. I do know that the seven that stymie they're fucking dead. They are stadium's debut once he's gone. They could've been hornets. Yeah Hornets are just they just stab you for fun yeah. They're bastards. They are but anyway other than that. We should talk about some gaming stuff. Man should not to Let's see here forms or cooking. We got some good activity out there which is great ever condor. We've talked about that. Game Okon Dot Org. That's dot Com dot org my God game Lucon Dot Com. com that is out there. That's happened of course. I in like a month and a half men. WHOA yeah October thirty first is rapidly approaching his holy Shit. I'm working with the encoder design design cruise so I can have some streets of avalon books that are that can sell on site so he kind of cool if I can make that happen signing. There's a signing everybody will be Taylor. I gave I gave copies to my buddies in my hometown and Alpha had like his five copies gave one to a couple of guys and I go hey I said what because book is wrong with it a MC fuck what insane it and like. Do you want me to devalue your book seriously. Will you know who I am. Missile got a number. I signed it for them. One of two hundred one of two hundred I just make up numbers. I'll start doing that if anyone wants recycle number sixteen seventeen yeah number one of two this random numbers no no meaning or anything like that well. I said I'll tell you what man let's. Let's just move right on ram counter soul ticket suet randoms encounters encounters rate emails voicemails comments from Social Media and our forums you start first. Laremy Wall writes in about cheating at the table to His Holiness and the grand poobah cheating. We've all done it. He wait a minute man. Wait a minute LEMme. It's a pretty strong accusation shen well. None of us should be proud of it for my part. I'm usually pretty good at spotting suspicious behavior as one of our gaming group was a great cheater include me in on many of his tricks everything to dice game cards to this day of someone has a stroke Rocca Good Luck. We rip them with a sure. This person's name sure we believe you wink for my part. I think you guys are spot on when recommending manning avoiding confrontation. No one likes it and it usually ends badly if it's a regular game. I've been known to toss out A. Hey everyone just to keep us. It's all on the same page. Can we all on the table instead of in your dice box or all used ice. Your neighbor can see or what what have you it doesn't point a finger and in my mind implies in even requests for everyone not singling a person out as far as CON Games. I think the thing that rubs me here is doing that really can just feel from everyone else. If I have that concern like Brett I just reduce the that massive damage damage. They have been known to just not let the player get killing blows in. They get to do their five thousand damage but the staggering fo- finally goes down when the thief Jabs Him with Short Sword for four damage. That's that's wonderfully anti-climactic fun. I like like like Shawn. I'd like to apologize for being the worst fan you guys have during the episode. I did notice that aren't on the POD catcher sure and was excited because I didn't know how didn't know many of the pieces you guys were referring to get back through the episode. Once I'd noticed it to look at them I really appreciated that effort in detail neglected dimension. Thanks for all work you guys put it on the show cheers. Laremy so what he's referring to in the the art of RPG's episode. I put we were talking about a particular piece of art. If you look at your podcast shirts should change to that piece of Art Lewis Sludge show type action interactive taking the podcast a level above boom all right. Let's see here L. Evans on the forum had interesting story about a cheater. There's one of my favorite ones player many many years ago early first edition. Dnd who went out and bought the module. I was running. He was playing in a very focused way. Unusual normally katic player the rest of the group like the fact he was not setting up traps and tractor and wandering monsters. None of us realized he was cheating. The macguffin in this module was a super powerful sword that was way overpowered overpowered so I'm GonNa this is Brett. I'm pretty sure he's talked about white. Blue Mountain Black Razor pretty sure starting mobile racer here anyway carry on he continues so a rewritten the sword to give it some negatives. He wound up getting sort of course as he was laser focused on it well over the next few months. He became very agitated. Every time he used the swords ancillary power some bad stuff happen finally in a fit of picky yelled. That's not right. I have the module you're not playing the sword properly as you looked up at the rest of the tables horrified looks is he tried to backpedal well somebody the day will not me dumped his bag onto the table in it were not only several modules we played or looking to play but xeroxes as of my notes or at the same place where bring my bag of DM stuff to work and we would play after work needless to say that was his last game at my table. Last time I ran module. I continue to read them ideas but wrote every single adventure Iran for years later. I still create all my own material that that's that's a level of. Why are you doing Sean. I've talked repeatedly about man. I wish I could recapture the wonderment like it did the very first time while this guy has no interest in anything anything no real real exploration. No wants to know everything. Wow that's some dedication there yeah. That's a guy who spends way too much time opening Kirkman presence in pretending he doesn't know what they are way too much work. Wait could story the well. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing over. You certes radio. It looks a little deeper into cheating on the forums says the sad thing about cheating is that it doesn't feel good anyone not even the cheater. How long can you play a game on God mode and Brag about it. I guess my first thought would be try to figure out the why why is this player cheating. Why do they need succeed so badly. Is there some way that I could help them. Grow out of their immaturity. I mean it's not on the GM to be a psychotherapist but sometimes this should is easy to figure out maybe giving them a bit more attention building up a little trust and then handing them. A weak character plays a challenge because they are obviously a good player. Wow you know you really really good at this here. I'm GonNa give you the underpowered age in a wheelchair. You're going to have yeah yeah. I know I know you own. The group can play this one right this right. Wink wink nudge nudge. The suzerain started getting into that. I'm like who touchy feely like it well. It's true though I mean honestly. There's it's kind of we ask like what the fuck is wrong with people now. That's a rude way to say it but the other pieces like wow. Why would you feel the need to do that. I say that enough during my day job yeah no need. I just saved my hobby but good thought right. I mean there is especially if you know people and you can and you pay attention to them at the table like why are they doing this. You know we'll see if he could find a way to pull that from that. Gamer and make them not doing more to win. Ray Man mostly all right Blake Ryan Ryan pointed out creating addition character of creating a second character in Adhd Sean. I talked about this is why people came back at a level lower or not so he pulled this this often sent it to us. He sniffed us out of that. ADM's guy experienced players while existing characters should generally be brought in the clean out existing existing character without existing characters. Oh excuse me excuse me experienced. Players without existing characters should generally be brought into the campaign at a level roughly awfully equal to the average of that the other player characters. If the average is four for example an average die or default plus one can be rolled to find a level between between two and five. This actually works well. Even if the average experience level campaign is five six or seven or even eighth especially when the average is used if the experience levels above eighth you'll wish to start such newcomers out a fourth or higher level after all. They're not missing out on anything as they they have already played being character roles elsewhere. They will not have then they will not have to be virtually helpless and impatient in exceeding an important important characters in your campaign. Is You give them a substantial level to begin with fourth fifth or sixth for instance. You might be a position. Take a different approach. There are several experienced newcomers in your campaign by adapting and method given below the complete neophyte interesting so if your players experienced ah if you've already gone through the low level doldrums we'll bequeathed sean a die roll to determine which character level you come in at how wonderful that's well. That's the problem is is that okay the first edition. ADHD is all the classes had different experience points to garner any level. Oh yeah that was that was a little more interesting interesting pieces. You could like rocket up the thief path for awhile struggle and other things provide the magic user because they weren't wizard yet magic user who made his way her way. Well okay so went into three. Oh in everybody to hit I levy at a thousand second level was three thousand whatever aber was yeah even playing field with me expertise no matter what class you're playing so this method. If it sounds wonky you guys. The game was frigging. Wonky plant wonky just a different way to go about it. Wonky wonky walkie aw look eighty players and players just can't you just can't handle descending armor class act coup and VACCO second edition well. I suppose that's where came into its own but I don't know it's one of those games are just like I know this. The problem is there too just too cerebral for you. They are just not ready for that. You need the simpler games. You need some kind of juvenile game like chutes and ladders level. Hey do need shootings and ladders the role playing game. Lets you can't find what I need. That's funny example what that is but I don't. I'm GonNa I think what I'm GonNa do is. I'm going to take some of the older games probably specifically eighty. I'm just GONNA open it up and I'm GonNa read something Anthony. I'm GONNA come home runs chrome across the package package a passage. That's like Oh my God and I'm GonNa take that passage and I'm gonNA featured on the show rant about it. Oh you can just go through the chart of the various different euphemisms for prostitute okay. There's only trawl will blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. There's a ton of them. Yeah Yeah Yeah. There's there's all sorts of weirdness. Yeah I'd be on the lookout for that minor production election who that'll be fun game once again a game trying to Kota Fi everything in the weirdest way possible anyway over user jeans writes in about art in our P G's his sean and Brett. I'm a longtime listener to your show in my opinion one of the premium offerings when it comes to RPG gaming podcasts the era that too fast allegro yeah in my opinion one of the premium offerings when it comes to our BG giving podcast thank you so much work done to human you touch on a lot of great topics topics in the back and forth conversation between you guys natural and rain reminds me of when my friends and I chat your show also has a great run time in the sound quality is excellent. Thank thank you thank you thank you the less part especially as all due to sean show on their own some quality all right so I just listened to the episode on Art and Roleplaying Games. It's more than art that more than fine art or pop art fantasy and sci fi art as phone and RPG's novel covers is my i. Love de Sandy alone has enough great pieces discussed for hours and I too highly recommend watts sees recent art in our Qena Book. What are some of the game are books. You guys zone have art of the dragons. I Have Art of Dragon Magazine. Oh yeah that's a good one. I don't have it but dragging magazine the art of the Dragon Lance I wanted it and I don't know why I don't have it. I have to find that I have to find that because some of the most amazing stuff was in there. I do have speaking of art if we take cartography into play the I can't remember the lady who did them but there was a there is a dragon lance map book. It's a soft cover in half by eleven book and she did the same with I. I think forgotten realms perhaps but it was just amazing. It's really really well done. That's also already yeah give some of my personal favorite works are the demon idle cover cover of the ADHD first edition PHP though I prefer the easily covers for the monster manual and DMG The elmore cover on the expert box with the dragon flying at the Ryder the pair of Aero Otis covers on the one thousand nine hundred one base in basic and expert sets Parkinson's Lord Sauce Charge Moser also anything Clyde Caldwell did in particular the covers for the deity gives a tear line. Dad is an awesome line. That is some of in my opinion for my money. That's some colds best. Work sure love it. As a big raven law fan I liked his work there as well and have a framed print of the great cover of the Raven law realm of terror blackbox with vampire holding the dark haired Woman Back Lit by the Moon Nice also huge plains scape fan and no setting in my opinion except for maybe dark sun is more defined by the style of a single artist. The Great Art of Tony Tony Deter lizzy captures the other world league the weirdness perfectly. It's only just turned. Fifty bucks turned fifty on twitter. I saw that Happy Birthday Tony Artis out there. Thank you for all you've done sir. I believe you asked if anyone has ever bought something based on the cover alone for me. That would be the first edition of the seventh. Crp g the Dave leary piece on the cover of the Gay Masters Guide with the Dueling Pirates sold me on the whole idea breath. I'm a big fan of elmore. Star frontiers cover discover on the first edition of the shadow run of shadow. Run is another great example that screams play this play this game all yes. I love that cover. That was the thing that maybe look at Chateauroux onto. I totally get into this third edition for sedition for it. Is I very first addition Yep. I have an art question for you guys. Is there a particular type of game art that you enjoy most by this. I mean is it. Full color paintings used used for covers or full-page spreads black and white line art depicting scenes in the game art showing characters fantasy landscapes etcetera. Ah Who I don't know men. I like all of it. I think it is on a case by case basis some some games for my streets avalon wanted black and white it felt the most Nuwari it felt like it would fit we talked about it and we're like you know co color cover to appoint but we still want to go black and white it just it felt right. I think in certain games black and white just fucking rocks as interior art. I'm honestly some of the over glossy full color masterpieces that some. RPG books are now actually find her to read. 'cause I'm old my reading glasses as-as glare clear from the from the super glossy and his bothers a lot of my eyes sometimes but I don't know I think you're right it. Is it applauded. Sean it depends. I think it really does yeah I could get. I could pick a piece. That's black and white. I could pick a piece. That's a cover in each category for each and there would be one that each one of those pieces in each one of those categories. I would enjoy equally really. I think it is similar. It's the evocative power for whatever reason you see a piece and you say while I want that thing to happen or I wish I was there seeing what was going on or even just walking that landscape you know really as a side note. I back the streets Avalon kickstarter and just received my print copies of the book. God is twenty nineteen. I have to say I'm really enjoying it so far. I like how grim ingredient is while. I've mostly played various editions De. I think this would be a fun setting to use to to test drive my copies of hander grim perilous. RPG interested to hear if you guys have read or played that or the war hammer fantasy RPG which clearly inspired hired in particular. I'd be curious how you'd adopt adapt avalon to use it versus using Didi keep up the Great Work James James James. I have under Shawn called me my attention to a sale for big hefty hardcover for that. I would totally use that. I think that's a really good idea. In fact fact I think my next I'm going to play test it with my group after I'm done running run Delta Green up next after that's done and I go back back to Avalon the city with my team applauds hunter and give it a go. I think it'd be a great fit. I have played war hammer first edition fantasy. RPG that's my favorite were hammered. Tradition love it ever really good time with a look at it as being that's not as steeped in the war hammer world. I may be adapt a little bit more to my world so if and when I get a chance to pull it off like I want l. Let everybody know but yeah. I totally think you could do them and thank you for backing taking the kickstarter Holy Crap Dude. That's very kind of you. Thank you very much really appreciate it from you. Know that's it all right. Harrigan writes about art and our PG's guys getting recent episodes as usual good work every few comments in question favorite art pieces back in the day in the eighties actually found a a Lotta. Tsr Art pretty terrible even as a young teen at least really black and white stuff in the modules with the exception of guys like Tim Chairman. Oh my God I can't believe didn't mention termine intrigued does amazing work amazing stuff well elmore and easily and company came aboard and got that House style rock and that was awesome except for called Wells Oval Gemstones. I hated aid those one of my favorite things. Each month was waiting to see the cover of a new dragon magazine and there's some really good ones. The Best of my humble opinion was one twenty six. Daniel horns horns unfed giant fighting the archer God's I love that cover had his damn good cover. We've gotTa Lincoln the shown us to that review. Don't check the link go on Daniel Orne Dragon magazine number one to six check that out that is a beautiful piece of work on the importance of art freaking hugely important. RPG's can't subtle on on a style or tone or or that have ten artists with different approaches to the work. It drives me crazy. Even if the great I want to be consistent house portraying the setting the themes of the game having a single artist helps a lot checkout games like Mayfair's incredible underground. RPG from the nineties dream pod nine stuff from that same period heavy gear the Jovan chronicles articles even something as simple as the black hat can nail it last thing on this is so important to me that often won't bother to read the preview slash artless versions of a game. I help kickstart. The text is there but those plain white pages don't inspire me much those are but there are some cases where no art is better than bad art found a lot of art from mythos Monsters Kassim Cauca three games pretty bad over the years. I think trying to illustrate love crafts wacky. Ideas often goes wrong image in our our imaginations can do better. I gotTa say you're right man. It's tough to draw something. That was not meant to know it's tough to do. I WanNa make knowable that which no human being is should know. Let's try this. Okay a question and file common to close in your recent episode on cheating you touch on players reading reading muddles the DM is running. Remember I ruined in entire. Dragons campaign fledgling damn doing by doing that except never read the module just a stupid novel anyway. I've been going to cons recently and after long hey this runny live games going to die back in planning something it will likely Lena Module. Is it better practice to this module. I'm using or not pros and cons both ways thoughts lastly. Thanks for for thanks last night looking forward to hearing the upcoming recordings of Jeff so the front arrogant saw if you're gonNA WANNA know us are I'll tell you what I put the module on their tuna horrors running game whole con- I'm GonNa run to a horse the only thing why did you pick the name. That's what he wants to know. Why did you put the name running exactly that module. So what what he's saying is should you lean. Is it better practice to list the module or not well. He's not saying that forbade him. He's news. It better practice just to let module. I'm using or not you're not reading the context though breath yeah. He wants to know if he should bother to run it because he doesn't want anybody to have read it provide. I'm planning on something. Os are issue and I will likely lean on a module yes. I don't know if leaning means he's going to be running it for them or he's done done. Where does it go from your perspective. You'RE GONNA run over. 'EM PUT DAMN title on. They're not you say you're not in. You're only using it for inspiration. Russian and you're deviating from the module or you're just using like the map or you're just using PC's than I would not you could say inspired by you could say inspired by if you wanted to get your point so if I were to say hey we run eyelid dread you show up in its own spaceship motherfucker. This is an island dread. It is a great inspiration of dread and it's on the planet and you're like Dick. No what I wanted now. Harrogate is saying is then why is considered cheating because I'll say oh. That's not the player could say I wanted to play our Trad. I've played it before a now. I'm running in playing in con- hey what's going on yeah. It's concert different that way in my opinion. I don't think people play a module game at convention to manipulate the module. I think they'll do it out on like I would imagine the people signing up for my game is simply doing it because they've heard of the module have played it ever run and have and or have played it in the past but don't I would hope they're not joining just to manipulate the crap out of and walk through it. I would be willing to say because some people are Dick's. Yes somebody out. There is doing that at cons. We'll see that person is a bad gamer sure most most people if they look at it say you're running you know layer the lizard king senator secret of Salt Marsh. You're running sundown alternates. Wow Oh that's cool. I remember having so much fun playing that one. That'd be fun to do again whatever else and if they show up and have a good time. It's a convention game and part of that whole draw for that is the nostalgia the fun if somebody's trying to win by saying. Oh push all three watching the same time. Oh don't step on the third Black Square step on the fourth leg square that level of detailed Atarot too much. That's what I'm saying yeah. I just don't know to what that level is like if somebody ran pharaoh I'd I'd probably WanNa play it but I don't. I mean I know the premise but I don't know all the details of it. So what is the one Basic Team D. It is the the lost city when the desert yeah with the big ten or so. Rasha runs this and he had people come up to you. We're GONNA play this game. Hey Hey he's running into the game ups banner Jazz Jerash Grade Yeah Yeah. Do you know if he's how he's GonNa do it because I love that module and I signed to play because I really love in a mortaring how he does it because it's so big. I said you know. I honestly don't know how he's going to pull it off but he only has however many hours to do it so I said I I know rash or he's a good dude. No it wasn't Jae Russia. Who has its the Guy Oh shit. I'm losing my brain. It's not rusher. your friend from that. I met he's from the twin cities area Minnesota Jason Jason Rafer there. We'd go Jason Good. God sorry apologized to both Jason Jerk so anyway said Jason Good Dude. He's got this. I talked to him. He gave me some ideas of what he's doing this but I'm not GonNa ruin it for you. Go there and experience it against. You'll have a good time really highlight. Four four hours racers got like just a short period of time to do it so whatever he did. The guys came back to me and said Oh. I'm so glad to spoil anything had a good time so so that dude and the two games with him specifically signed up for it because they love module and wanted to see how somebody else ran it so I think you have people who do that and because you know there's so many different ways means policies devices that people have to try to do sanfer games and such. I think it would be worth earth listing the module even if you say inspired by if you know you're gonNA deviate strongly as you say or you could simply say. I'm running this module and when someone shows up in jerk. It's not how that works. You can say well. We only have four hours. I don't have a month. Play this big thing or whatever so it makes sean you by that. I mean you can get anybody in a game yeah. It's going to cover the gamut who knows but get your point. If you were to say to Mo- horrors then you showed up it was tumour's is in space people like what do you mean to. Moore's in space so I suppose being space is just too much right. If you'RE GONNA run it enough that people should be able to recognize it then say the name these same degree though I I guess that's what you're saying yeah so much from the module then I duNNo. It's a judgment call. I can see go either way but I think if you're going to run run it really for Beta are as close to it is possible or just put in the description like tumour's tumour's. This was tumour's. This is going to be too horrors in space with some minor modifications that Outta I might sign up for the game six the spaceship but find themselves in an ancient tomb of yeah had why not right look. I could actually be interesting. That's space hulk measure right there on mash up from last episode anyway okay here again. I have no idea we actually answer your question tchernoff. We didn't please let us know and we'll try again over you. Sir Edwin Nagy this one goes back I think he he commented never never prepared and so we you're talking about like putting things on the players. Oh yeah shirking duties. He's the subject line. Perhaps there's a difference between asking leading questions sounds about the players characters versus about the world. Why is your character here feels different to me than why is the duke unhappy as GM I tend to stick p centered questions and as a player I tend not to enjoy world centered ones this concept may also be one one of the key differences between story and traditional games. I don't like them. I don't like either turn but hopefully they get the idea across cheers Edwin Edwin. That's it's interesting character centric wise you care to hear versus. Why is the way the way it is. You can answer something about the world hello from a character's perspective right but it is obviously colored by whatever lenses character sees it through. That's interesting. I thought about about that argument I would have an win is that if you get the players to comment on the world peace then there's an argument that they would would be more vested in the world. I think it could go either way. Though I think without a win here to defend himself I would I I would say at the beauty of this show. Nobody's selves tear them down all of them. I would think would say that's why I asked character specific questions because then Brett's character Eileen scared to say I believe my character believes the duke is unhappy because of a failed marriage and and the fact that the dragon has stolen son that your characters Lens you saying something about the world through the character's perspective and because it's the characters perspective Edwin Game Esther. It's that's interesting now that matters that's just a rumor. Okay Neat your characters free to act on that however they wish wish it doesn't change how the world is set for goes contrary to a world. That's fine who can say hey sean how do you what is your character feel about the empire because well hi. I think the emperor's really decent guy. He's doing the best you can corrupt Senate Blah Blah Blah sorry and that's your character's perspective and it doesn't it says something about the world because if you feel that way you are either alone. Crazy person believes that by themselves or you learn that from parents are a group you belong to and so forth so I think it's still says things about the world but from a character's perspective which gives the game master freedom to to Benfield spindle mutilate a little bit more perhaps share I guess he rather people to your point would be like no. I want to say something about the world stick right. Yeah I WANNA be able to say goblins are misunderstood. Yes it's it's a horrible horrible race war that we have against goblins and their misunderstood and it's a cruelty that there's a bounty on Goblin years this this terrible arable is morally unjust and that's the thing I want. I want in this world that want to stick some gamers like that stuff other games like anew that's not right interesting interesting thought provoking short one man but you got me thinking. Sean Casey the smoke from years. One can all right who else we got Chris. Your rates are calls balls in again go Chris. Hey Brenton John. It's Chris sure thanks for my voicemail. On last time I learned two do things. The first thing is that I guess microphone on my Little Apple headset. Thing is blessed because my audience is terrible. Hopefully this is better not really have a way a checking but I'm just talking directly into my phone right now. Second thing I learned was about corporate. Speak I appreciate being called out there. apparently calling during lunch between one corporate meeting in another impacts my oh there it is boom thinking anyway and also made maybe learn at acquisitions. INC is probably not the game for me because I Kinda WanNa get away from that corporate speak when I'm playing games which is a good segue into your topic for the last week. These genre blending which I thought was an awesome topic. Very piece is one of my favorite favorite modules. I loved shatter on. I love the shadow. GotTa run setting. I didn't particularly like the shadow in rules. I think I'm in along on the same page as as bright and the also John I'm not sure is the right term. I think genre I think things like oh how the story is told and how outcome of the story is so like romance genre unrest. I see noir genre you know I see horror as Jonah that suspense. I'm not sure that the forgotten realms setting I think he's these are more talking about setting elements that are impacting and kind of blending with each other. I think that so I'm not I don't know if that necessarily is Germane to your discussion. I think if we had implemented the word we use the word setting instead of Zana. I think it would be the exact same conversation and get it. A lot of people don't like their settings to blend you know but a lot of people love it. I'm thinking dragon. Rider attorney got dragons there with the far future setting reading like you guys talked about. Shara the post apocalyptic with fantasy. I did take one last point is I didn't think I don't like my science fiction to a have kind of that past oil that passed oil sort of fantasy blend to and like I can't think of it I wouldn't be interested so much in the traveler game where they land on a planet and like the forgotten realms that Moore who will now. I'm thinking about it. Maybe that would be interesting anyway. Great Show thought provoking appreciate it guys. Thanks Chris. That's interesting. I think that if I were to go back up a dictionary definition of genre I think how people experience genres in the setting which is kind of interesting because I know Tim Tim to Shane and I were talking on on twitter he posted something up and I and he said you know he tends to run every game of his tend to have some horror elements in it because because you know even in dnd sticking your head on a dark hole to see where the colts our is kind of terrifying so I'm paraphrasing. Would what Tim said and I'm like yeah. I kind of agree might stuff. Tends is the to go that route. I think setting is often or the mixing of the different setting component as one of the easiest ways to talk about genre versus tones and themes sometimes we might have to revisit that we'll do a little research and find out Lord okay. It's tough Chris. Thank you you yeah thanks Chris. You ready man and he almost got into corporate. Speak Right in the middle can make some impacts you ready. Yeah who who who you ready no no. Yam Ready so Sean God you're Runnin. It's called CA- through the game then yeah I'm running through your latest love. You hate all of the Games you as you talked about burning all your other books and only coca through. That's ally How's going man. Are you liking group liking it as a going well. Are you finding out the off more than you can. Chew learn lessons. Your your your module running adventure running guy published Guy House the prep to play ratio working out late on me brother where you get so lots cover Bradley. Ah No start somewhere and let's see where we go so for those of you nat in the know run massive narrow or tap. Yes Uh narrow lethal tap and it's six hundred sixty six pages long. It's a hefty book men twenty eighteen eighteen version which is two books split in half lots a handouts so the big the the if if you're if you want to know about this or if you do not want to know about this adventure then probably WanNa tune out spoilers may come about his adventures been out since forever dude. I know but still alright alright alright for. I mean fair warning. Let's talk about this before you get into like the craziness about the adventure itself self or whatever Liaskas you're running to pre published adventure and things that's interesting to me is what I have read and tried to run a published call Kasulu thing I've found on that reading it and understanding and so on I'm like okay. GotTa make sure I'm ready for this. Evening's game Blah Blah Blah. I find I am. I am like fifteen sessions. Nations make up a number here way ahead of where the fuck the players actually get to it feels like a Catholic type game moves much slower than A. D. Module does that Trudy Sarah Fair. I would agree. Is that throwing your game off man. No I say you're talking about your game master game. You're prep crappier. Your readiness to you have too much in your head and you're trying to rush people long or no. Yes ask the good solid simelane. I'm one of those that every host wants on their show to interview would be great interviewer. Don't like it interviewed. Beaulieu like it nope ice could that I had read it to the premise of mask ask is it started at a particular point and the hook for the player characters to SOM-. Tom Didn't make sense you kind of had to be quick by in their into a relationship with Jackson. Elias with the one thousand nine hundred eighty some version they came out with the community came out with kind of a prelude. Oh why you know why you all buds with Jackson. Analyze why shit that something happened to correct and it's an adventure that kicks off that relationship than then that goes into the major masks campaign campaign so it was like an addendum that they did the community did so. I ran the addendum which is then going to. I mean I can tell you the premise because you could just read it gay masters going to tell you about it your task to go to Peru because there's a Mr Larkin who kind of asks you to join him in Peru to find a a pyramid in the Andes that it may have fortune so depending on your character. You may be out for the fortune. You may be archaeologist. That's looking into in two long lost civilization. Will you know whatever archaeology anthropology ties Blah and then if you're another character maybe your bodyguard of another player character fair enough the adventure ensues Blah Blah Blah and then it ends and then you go into mass ass which takes place five years later okay five years later in New York that kicks off the big mystery so going back to my game Brett's Br. I get to talk this whole episode. I know water notes. Note students actually France throwing me a softball. He's like outside sounds great yeah yeah yeah so going to the game name one of the things some running pulp rules which I mentioned in the past. No that's interesting though because a lot of times I think anyway that pulp. Coke Hulu move faster. I agree and it's a little rough because we I've never run through so even just like combat them like a Okay Yeah player. Josh is a good guy. I think he means listen to the show on occasion but you know Josh knows the rules of games pretty well. He knows how stuff flows and he's not afraid to look it up and he presents it very well. He's lawyer. That's awesome yeah so he'll be like no. You know it's supposed to work like this or hey you shot at. You're not supposed to like if you take dodge can't do another dodge yep right right something like that so it's a little clunky that way but anyways the characters are good. It's a little different than what they've played in the past I would say everybody's bought in back is even getting. I'm trying to get back into it. Okay that's good because I think the last time I mentioned about the game knock was falling asleep at the table. Yes you did so. I had to keep a kid like move things along because sometimes you get a little. Lawley and it's you know lolly talking about this in an investigation game. Sometimes even if it's you and you're like well everyone has all the court closed got a whole bunch of extremes clues how what they actually do with those clues moving along and then if you introduce danger especially in a high mortality game you know where if you get shot you're fucking out of it right people turtle up real fast so keeping a movement is a big deal and because going back to the pope thing you know they'll say like. I take a shotgun. You know it's going to shoot them. Oh okay they're coming at Ya. It's right say something catchphrase something. I don't know it's dying time burner blow bloom way not he's eight these guys bomb heat. These guys something like kick it up right. This is your stereotypical ca through game right. I Dunno twirl your frigging shotgun in your fingers spin it around spinning around man crazy bring him back back holster. Tommy guns and you look at for me coon all right so I'm getting those guys to get into that a little bit like I'll say hey doc pope ban. What would you do anything special saying. Do things like I say this. Okay Awesome Man Sore are your players actually having hard time grasping pulp and and they're thinking so old school that went old school is wrong kind of standard if you will call Khufu are they overplaying call Khufu therefore I must play this way. I think there's a sense of being relatively reserve serve soon in ever on it in the Dandy setting. It's very pulp noir and you know it embraces all out of bad or in its should and some of that comes from the setting itself and some of the components that you run into when you talk about. Khufu and you talk about pulp the I think there's a couple of things that are working against me and the players don't play call through all the time and it is called Khufu. Yes so the pulp rules rules. I think is just some may look at and go well. It's just a way to have more hit points or be a little tougher or be able to survive but not actually embrace pulp okay so if the character of this we can he or she can last a little bit more but I'm not going full bore. I'm not immersed in pulp yeah. My name is not you know. Dirk Dirk Flesh Arts Dirk flasher. Whatever right like Rudd's deal right. Yeah you know the amazing adventures of insert the guys or women's doc savage man Lebron's man so I think it will eventually get there. I don't know because even with mass okay so the first adventure is very I would say it. Is Your Kinda a typical module as it is to a traditional role playing game K. There is a little bit of mystery but it's really not there. It's an adventure are they're still moving through. It's slower than I'm going to. Yes okay. They are yeah when I read it took. I don't know how many five sessions to get through and they should probably if you think old school. DND module like two games out here on the big stuff. Maybe okay. Here's what. What did you think when you read it when you read the whole thing? Did you think that one night we're done or did you think that take a month or what. I I thought it would take a little while. Maybe not as long as this. I think we had one session where things really didn't go anywhere and so I wanted to even in the end at the end of the set of they. I blame you 'cause they. Should that's usually they don't do that all right. They don't know better not allowed. No okay there. Maybe I'm not allowed even in the end where kind of could get squirrelly as far as what's really going on. I kind of just made shit happen and go. I want to get into the nuances of okay well. They do this and they gotta do that kind of gave them a problem. I expedite the issue by having them attacked. Oh by the way I charm two of them and now they gotta deal with to charm to characters that are in favor of some Colt Yeah. They're under suggestion right there nice magically Kinda like hey. You're going to do this for only GonNa do this for you. So now at these two goons like hey I gotta go get a Crowbar hacks and then we'll things you talked about with coca through. You loved the role playing aspects of it. The less hacky slash e so part part of me thought man. Is he going pulp. 'cause he's trying to end up with more hacky flashy but are you getting. Are you getting the role playing field that you wanted to out of this. I mean are those the things you love when you when you played it cons and you were getting into it. Are you getting that roleplaying Russia. You're open you would get. I I am that good. That's why would say I would say. It's a little like crystal is into it. I mean she brought up like a four page backstory for a character. You're so she's in cool. Jimmy is in and Josh. I would say so if I had to rank them. It'd be like crystal Jimmy Josh Doc. Okay and I'm not saying that docks not fully vested. It's just how those other guys are kind of at the table all doing their thing. There's just a bit of difference in how they play got it cool. Yeah 'cause I was depending. You could get a bad table for any game right right and some games don't Mesh well with certain groups. They don't for whatever reason so I'm I'm happy for you. Honestly that it's working. That's very cool. Good here well with this one. It's it's again. It's very I think linear some even say that. There's a bit of a railroad tickets kids bikes Mike. Is there anything about this at then. You look at it in now when you get. I know enough about masks. I've played played through first pieces of Nola version thereof in New York and so did you do the Peru. Peru now started on New York. Yeah you didn't do Peru who then and then we end up we ended up going to England and then the campaign died. lenny ran again with a different group we went to England and then ended up in in Egypt. I came in how we how we ended up there. We definitely made it to the desert. Pretty quicken things get ugly. Star Vampires increase police say one thing I do. I tell you one thing. The grossness that has occurred has struck a chord to some degree. Are these players. Catholic players or this is their first four into Khufu. That's a good question Russian. I don't know if any of them have played through. Actually they all didn't have any of the books okay so my guess is they had never played before or if they have they're not got there weren't fans enough to go and buy the stuff right and it might have been a one shot but as far as I know none of them have played Cauca through because they were like I was reading up on leveling and you know all this stuff you know increasing your abilities and your skills not easy to do Blah Blah Blah right. I'll I'll tell you one of the one of the things that I like about a game like Alka through from not only different genre setting rule system and so forth but if you're not a fan and insofar as you don't play regularly. I wouldn't be surprised at some of the players who are really getting into it. Are One of the reasons are really getting into is because they are feeling that old old wonderment that you and I talk about all right because it's almost like. RPG is new again because things are very different especially if you're a DVD player not the DVD's bad obviously but if you're used to a certain to you just played shadow run or you played star Trek or star wars or or whatever and then you jumped into this. It's a different feel yeah. Have they dealt with the Sandy Lafayette. They have law sanity. Some have spent spent luck to not be too far off or the government that I'm going insane. I don't know how that's going to go. I think I I think Jimmy Jimmy and crystal. Will they have no problem like okay getting into that doc and Josh I think they would they don't. Oh have any adversity to do it but I also don't know if they would understand that that's happening. Okay and how to actually Kinda like DOC would do it. Yeah I know but it wouldn't be into the same to the same extent but with going into New York though when I'm trying to say is from Peru to New York the adventure and adventure of mass literally becomes a clues murder mystery stree- goddamn sandbox dude while in the thing is that so when when they are going to get these things so I have a lot of handouts. I give them handouts. They're very oh here's a letter. Oh it's not a letter as a ACLU. It's a letter as a piece of information Russian yes where now with mask when they show up in New York. They're gonNA come across in Jackson's apartment or maybe not stuff. They're GONNA come up. They're gonNA come across stuff yeah I did. It's just going to be put in front of them. Is this matchbox of any use. Yes is this tin type. Anything is this I photograph the fact that the type Anna photograph the fact that there's a new a stack of newspaper clippings and this and this and this right it can be the overload can hit right well. That's soon I'm waiting for so Josh has been taking pictures of all the clues and he stores them in his IPAD and I'm sure you can go in reference and back and forth. I have a whiteboard with magnets on and attack act stuff up there in the end. If these guys don't start taking notes and figuring out like shit is going to get real for them where where they're not going to know which way's up if they just collect all this crap this is very much if people have played night's black agents tip thing before one of the things that that has the pyramid mid and so on and shake it's escalated on you in. Cauca through is one of those classic things where if you were going up against a cult or multiple colts or aid or any ally league or or some horrible deity or whatever it is you start fucking about wow. I seem to have delved into something. People are not meant to know I'll just dick around for awhile and kind of do this. Maybe go the social and have a Sandwich and Oh my God cultist kick in the door. That's what happens you fuck around too. Long the bad things you start coming for you and if you're not paying attention you don't take no. It's like okay. These guys have stars on their heads. I thought the people were fighting didn't have stars in their. Where did these people come from well. You didn't take notes five sessions back and you missed the star. Clue and you miss this or you weren't paying attention. There's a lot of nuance he stuff so sean from your perspective the game master you're looking at this when they miss the nuances or they have all the clues but they can't make shit sense of it. Are you doing something yourself to prepare to like. Hey I got a bill to help these cats out when they get in a bind and they can't figure it out to lend them a hand. You're just GonNa let them stew in their own piss. What are you gonNA. Do Oh well. It depends if if I do if I'm feeling generous yeah we'll pull them out of the muck that and if I'll have to have them spend some luck there you go get a mechanical thing like do you burn some luck. Burr luck yeah and gumshoe turmeric. Oh I can't help you that you WANNA WANNA. Give me a couple couple of points spend spend spend spend spend some shit and then I will but the thing is it will be very hard for them not to they they will. I don't think they'll get lost. I think my fear is that they will get overwhelmed because I think they're going to get clues. That are pretty blatantly. Obvious like Oh so here is a business card to this company. We should go to that company. Be Ten of those. What do you do go. You can't go at once while I'm saying from it. Over from overwhelmed overwhelmed perspective is that we're talking about too many obvious things to follow up on that is part of it or they're get too many overtime and then they're not like putting them altogether altogether because I think once they start on a particular track they may split up which will be great yeah because I think split in the Party and Kacoos probably not a bad thing. That's a terrible idea. Almost any game man the research shows the research and shit all depends how bad the cultists want him dead yet fair but right now. They're off the grid like they don't know yet. They can operate in just about to start getting into the shit so I guess what I'm asking is. Do you have a bag of tricks from your from gay mastering other game systems really hey if they get overwhelmed overwhelmed. No I know how to pull this out. This is all new to you have no idea no idea seriously well. I mean I think I will be able to depending on what the situation is right so if they go indirect if they get the clues which so there's some situations in the even in the beginning which you've played Brett where depending on what you do you who or how quickly you act. You'll either get more clues or non. Yes or some yes so. It's like if you if the players this delay okay they're not gonna get everything or they may come across to delays caused problems bright but if they're quick on the feet and they get in there than they could unravel everything they could catch something in you know they get all of them or whatever. I have actually contemplated just like hand waving that crap and just say hey this is. What did you find in the room. Amongst all the rummage keeping the keeping the clues flowing instead of well. They acted too slowly slowly so therefore the only get three. Oh if there's ten and okay that's one way I'll tell you one of the things I have done over the years is that when the players get overwhelmed they look at me like I don't know what to data. Well then probably some. Is it there you go yeah. I honestly think that doing some race okay. Let's let's talk about this. Look at the White Board all the ships up there. Let's get the markers in your note okay. This is connected to this this this well. That's what they do yeah. I'm just saying you can get them started by handing him to craft CRA- handling the kraft paper pencils and and glue stick and let the kids go nuts real make some cool they'll make some cool folk art for you and guess what I get to do so beca watch nothing I get to do nothing and just watch laugh and grin and Mertz Merck yeah but they're questions hey ono no no was this was in the yard or the alleyway was the only way is it noon or five yeah four actually off fought four four well. That's what I'm waiting for. The questions that have no relevance owes the best I know because then you have to be careful because if you do give him a detail and they go so so it has a it's at eight o'clock yeah it means nothing and it means nothing. They'll latch onto that so I have to just say look. That's just it's I'll give you time but it's not relevant for the sanity of the players writes sometimes somehow how some players groove on that we got hooked on the on the clock based on Greenwich Meantime Turns out through the Rosen eight the world. We were wrong. Sorry about that so people don't care for the concept goes pear shaped. They don't get the in is not that the idea is get them to win or beat the monster just destroy whatever it is but if they if they're totally on the wrong track this where we've talked about red herrings before this is where were the players can accidentally grab onto red herring especially when they're opt their eyeballs in data sometimes have mercy in my opinion say look. It doesn't matter what time I will tell you right now. Your character is smart enough have to know that the time of day doesn't matter Greenwich Mean Time or Central Standard Time. That doesn't matter what matters is the position stars were in Yes the stars again part and then they're back-off to where they are. You can use the characters knowledge skills and whatever to help rapid answer some shit and get off of off of the thing but some players like fucking themselves and other people not much yeah. I'm really I'm really excited to see how because it kind of Wayne there for a little while and God not God all right. We're going to get done with this thing. Move this along. Get it to where it needs to go and then really I mean the guys that do vintage. RPG podcast one of those thanks to Horvath. Do He's run this twice. In Iran back. He ran the eighties version and then he ran the two thousand eighteen version and just so you folks folks know if you've even looked at either. The twenty eighteen version is pretty easy to run and I say easy to run as in. Where are they okay? Read the Paragraph Graf by reading the paragraph. It's actually things you can actually read out loud. It's not well written that way. Okay in is very clean cut his two. Hey do this thing and you can't go wrong yeah. That's there's Times where I'm like yeah. I prepped for this like a month ago and now they're at this part art. Okay read read read read read okay so I can say up to hear Crate da Da da Da da so there isn't a lot of Meta that if you just read a paragraph again do a ton of trouble set that aside so it's really nice especially when there's so much so anyway I stu horvath mentioned how he had one of his players like do something like four journals worth like journal in four of them worth of notes. It's ridiculous ten four. I don't know if she gets obscenely complicated game when I brought one to the table and said Hey here's a journal you guys skin like us to put scratch notes Joshi's digital guy so he went all the pictures and stuff but you know I'm just wondering if they're really going to get the grasp of how much crap APP is. GonNa come down on them information early. I don't know if you remember but I told you WanNa Rian trailer through the first time I had. I was running book. House of London and I bought a journal Leather. Bound Journal gave each player and I said you have to take notes for the session. Take no take notes and we pass it around the table. Everybody took a turn so the whole thing thing is written in sess handwriting his perspectives. Alpha's Lenny's Alpha did his all lenny a mind map alpha did like drawings and sketches shows and weird like cartoon figures and stuff and you read through the same. It's it looks like a madman's diary. It's really fucking cool and then I went back. I always took it home with me so go back through an ED stuff in red did. Did we do that or did you that I don't know because I'm looking at Nelson. Well Fuck who pays through it but anyway different I. I like the idea of providing them something like that even if they don't take you up on it you can tap that book. You see this thing yeah the fucking thing. I brought you to take notes in because it till Oh you need notes. I'm telling you you might want to slide start using this thing well and here's the thing when I think some are an I am even guilty of it. I think think they're thinking well. I'll just we're going to get the clues. We'll just follow the clues yeah but you'RE GONNA end up talking to like twenty. NPC's yeah so that's where the when they're going to get information formation from those NPC's that aren't like Oh. It's on this piece of paper sitting in front of me. You'RE GONNA have to remember what that person said two sessions ago. I think what's interesting is where. Oh you're my advice view whether daily but I guess is that if the first time they say who said that you say that was bobby the police officer guys here's the deal. You'RE GONNA run into a ton of people you're talking to. You have to write this down because we're a waste of time and I can't keep heap if you want me to regurgitate this. I'M GONNA Burn Luck from what I'm saying. I'M GONNA do it every time I mean if I'm a half do because it's pulp and they're gonNA be boost in their lockout all the time. If you want to help encourage them to take those notes yes drain a resource and tell them hey you don't Wanna get your shit drain dude. I write the shit down. Yeah I would agree. That's a good way to go. Yeah I agree. Is there anything we're going for a little our dude so sorry. Is there anything that you're learning as you're running flew here that you would that you think will help view either running different like when you're running called. Kasulu again like a new and you're already thinking of Steph or are you looking at this saying hey I could do. I could improve my other. RPG perhaps you know how you run a game Tehran Star Wars Yeah. I like this piece. I'm GonNa take this is going to inform my game mastering or inform my I play in some way. Is there something that now that you're more embroiled in other nuggets. You're pulling out saying I'M GONNA use that again. No matter where I go well I think the the one thing that is going to get in the mode of his at every non player character is going to have to be unique in how I present them which Indian D is fairly easy because I'm not dealing with twenty. NBC's at any one given time or they're going to be rea- dressed over. Maybe a couple of different times so when I present the cop or I present. Can't you know the lawyer or the news paper person or the reporter. I WanNa make sure these guys know. Oh who they're talking to when they're talking to so we've talked about this before you don't have to do the funny voices you can do the description well you know he sees coming takes his head off and begins twirling the Brim Yeah. That's what Tom Always does talking to Mary and and show Shuffles feet. She never makes eye contact. You ask her if she was always looks down. You know you've got to have that stuff. Yes if you WANNA make him unique right because I don't care what can keep pegging to keep consistent. I don't WanNA use grandma voice for reporter watched action action. Take time to teach English accent of you know like a are you a guy who writes in your books no so me. Bravo Goodman although I might if you want to heretics you're right in books would put the the notes next to the N. P. C. That says English accent stutters. Whatever was directly in the book? I don't know have you seen the gay master screen for missed the game master screen for masked is literally all the NPC's all that's wonderful you can write on the screen then that's all the NBC's a a few other kinds of nuances. I think few clues or how they connect them. I think you see the countries like how they she'll from. If you're not afraid to put sticky notes or Writing Peninsular you're right on the screen man Yeah Bat by the way I write on a game master screen. That's not a real book. I do that right being and it's this in its for this campaign like you're never. GonNa use the screen for anything else correct because you're right. It's and you decide well. Marianne Worthington is a British accent and lady cotton has a Australian accent and this person has from Germany and this person speaks with a stutter you could put uh on there and whether you're running for this crew or two years writing for a whole different crew. Hey guess why long look like a master because already built. I'm also going to have to keep track all this shit. Yes you are you. Are you doing whatever clues they have. You keep you in a separate stack. I'm putting Amara table. No no I know when you've laid their clues out and you click the clues at the end the session do you put them back in with all the other clues you to keep them separate so it depends on what what I've done was attacked them to the whiteboard. I know what I'm saying is at the end of the session where we clean up my vice frigging whiteboard okay so I put the whiteboard aboard to the side and all this shit on it. Oh and do you never take it down. No okay thank you. I thought you would take. I didn't know where you're playing politics. I'll they leave the whiteboard there. I just put it off in the corner but when we play I put it up on an Easel and then I heard it on the table. Sadat pours a glass of Scotch Stares at the board every night. You know to focus off in the corner yeah. That's what it looks like when you come in but I do have to keep track so here's the thing that I haven't done which it's really pissing me off. Is the clues okay. When you get the whole mass slip case you get all the paper clues as a lot of stuff from research. There's a lot of handouts but I have I have the HP lovecraft society props set and I'm pretty sure if I open that bitch chop and there's a matchbook in the handouts. It's a piece of paper. That looks like a match book. I think if I opened the prop set there's there's a fucking can batch book and so when Lenny runs it he has he loves making proxies a theater guy yeah when he made a fucking matchbook right he made photographs. Oh graphs did all of this right which I bought and have a haven't busted okay. All you got busted open. I know you gotTa do it. Man I know I do and then I gotTa uh-huh and what I've been doing with the paper handouts as I've been putting them in folders so if it's like New York I put all the handouts and that New York folder and then as we go through true I pull them out as they get them and put them out on the table and then at the end. I put him back in the same folder so put everything on the whiteboard where everybody sees it. If you keep all the cool oh shit on a side table or something. There's a look at it's right over there. I do. I know I can't pull the props. You paid all the props out. I know man very cool yeah or cool. It'll not this week that we're recording this on the eighth. We would play on the tenth so it'll be the seventeenth desire next game so I still have a week to like pasta. Open the prop set and put a ball together. I am debating. I know I have two different big. Ask Game ideas that I WANNA run for my group and I'm right now heavily leaning towards Delta Green Yeah. That's good money. It's yeah it's next if I had a choice because it's good so some so I got something already. I got something yeah that's up for that and I got a different thing that wanted to do to which is even bigger in scope openshaw ready to donald formerly yet but cool. This is awesome so you really taking it as much as you thought you would. I am but I think I'm going to get more because I think the Peru on was kind of to taste men yeah. It's it's like Oh. That's a chocolate covered strawberry. That's kind of NEAT. Oh I got a livestream Flaminio incoming. Oh Wow I first spiritus. Ho Bring that on right hasn't eaten tonight yet. No I haven't mongering cool bill. That's good. That's good yeah yeah so if I just board the shit out of you about my call Khufu game I apologize but it's going to ramp up to put some Info for Patriots dance. No I think this is good reason to ask you about this. Sean was because when we talk about Games a lot of times people have asked us for reviews right sometimes. Hey you did a really good rundown of this game system in that game system and sometimes that's neat but talking about. I've run CALICO through before I run Delta Green before this is your first go at it. I mean you've played it a bit but this is your first go through it and the fact that you're having a good time. You're enjoying it you liking the clues you liking this process as you go along. I think it'd be trained to check in periodically radically and at the end of it when he campaigns over however it ends where they'll go insane and die actually make it to the end whatever occurs it'd be interesting to get your opinion of. Did you have fun. Would you do that again. Yeah my biggest fear is that is so it's so long and that these guys will be aboard or something. That's my fear or I could too. I guess that's again part of it. I that's why I won't have kind of quasi. Regular check ins just to see how it's progressing in Seattle what you're doing now. It might be peace with the enemy saying it's awesome. It's fucking amazing but I can't run anything that big. I don't like it right the answer and that's totally fine but to my original point hearing somebody talking about a game system really enjoy how much fun on they're having with what they're doing with it. Other players interacting is just as good as review in my opinion. Sometimes that that get you fired up so very cool awesome yeah so thanks for listening to me babble about my tell me about your game story. Hey do exactly our podcast. We'll get to do this flight players. They'll be like tell me about your player story. Yeah let's go Darrell Darrell right the first one dungeons deceptions the first DVD players pushback on the legend Gary Guy Geck's which is an article on Co Taco by Cecilia Cadenas Anastasio Anastasio. Yeah I am amazed at the number of people who give give a shit about this stuff. Seriously will argue with you. Violently argue is to who founded who started did whether they were good game master or bad is crazy. Well this is this article is actually pretty good as it relates to history of the hobby and so there are some people like gets people totally as an it's all has to do with the release of of a blackmore the the documentary yeah. I find it interesting. When I I not that don't give show I mean to say that yeah but the intensity entity that some people the religious zeal some people in a very interesting carry on second one rules that Dungeon Masters should pretend don't exist an article on the game or Dot Com by Courtney Osteen. Some of its May Yeah Brett's disregarded all but yeah. There's a couple of there's or some it's somebody call. Click Bait but they were bruce. Cutting ten points out Steve Newton's new kickstarter on his DC adventure the last last will and testament of feltner ends October seventh two thousand nine hundred fund yet but it's pretty much there. It's like nine thousand nine hundred the hours of two thousand five hundred or something and I know Steve. I met him at Gary Khan Really Nice Guy Yeah. He is a twenty five hundred dollar goal. He's at two thousand twenty two dollars right now yeah and I think even before the show is like one thousand nine hundred so if you're interested in D. C. You want to check that out by all means. You know slick yeah. It's a western themed adventure so if you like this stuff and you got in non honor on Dr trails by the lady this might be this might be a little fun thing to adapt their when that comes out very cool sweet yeah so so. What are we talking about next week. Brett we're character. She Sean Yeah couple listenership this about this so I built the built the the notes a little bit ago. I think I shared out with you. If not you'll see it shortly and talk character sheets topic. I think it is the debut topic K. well there. You have it. We don't expect a lot of random encounter counter on this on this show I if now the other thing is there's so many if there's a game master other who's run the new version yeah and and if you have a tip or trick yes so you. WanNa throw at US fine. That would be great. we don't have to publish it everybody but it might be on the singly. Hey guess what spoiler alert we have tip. We're going to read this thing if you don't like it you know click back later could be could be. Kinda cool temperatures and how to run this thing being nestled L. Hood Up. That'd be great here yeah. Let's IT ladies gents. Thanks for listening to another episode of gaming and BS. I'm wondering your host Sean. That's running the massive narrow tap Calica through the game. I'm Brett good night and good game and all this episode of gaming and BS brought to you with the help from the following B. S. searchers Graham Minor Corey Win Hawks Hawks Barrel Larry how mark to Saka pure Mongrel Chris Steele Ron Bishop Thomas Hook Wayne Home Fleet Craig there me Wall Dan Dan Lavallee Jason hops Guy Roger Bracelet John Hammersley old school the M Perry Bizarre Michael Dinos Jim Fitzpatrick Christopher Gray Bruce Comington Huntington John Keyword Corey Gonzales Eileen barreds Robert Nemeth Nile Diamond Angus Howard Bishop Stephan Dragon Spawn Mark Antony Benedetti Eric Eric Salcido Trevor Davis the closet Gamer Jeff Goad Aaron Coleman Ray Otis. Cw Mellencamp Craig Huber Rich rashawn old scooter role playing jared Brasher Andy Hall David Blog Chad gleaming fin off Mirko for like Lord Tentacle Joe Swick Curtis Takashi Josh Wallace Kevin Lovecraft Andy Olson Twenty sugarloaf Baker Jeff ciphered and Aaron for ways to support the show head over to gaming aiming. NBS DOT COM forward slash support dash us. Thanks be esser this. It's been litterbox studios over that Shit.

Brett Sean Chris Jimmy Josh Doc Peru jeff ADHD Dragon Magazine New York twitter Shawn GM Nick hornets Moore Brenton John tumour Asia NBS Jira
The Women Fleeing Saudi Arabia

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

20:15 min | 2 years ago

The Women Fleeing Saudi Arabia

"Sara is he's has reported on Saudi Arabia for years. She grew up there. I'm in the Middle East multi year pretty much since I was a child very very young. So when the story of Rajavi Muhammad that Saudi teenager who left her family and took to Twitter to seek asylum began spreading around the internet this month, I went instantly to my laptop and started following the story following the re tweets checking out the videos, I speak Arabic. So some of the tweets and videos were being translated. But I was able to follow like Arabic Twitter as well. Other listening along with that while alleged the Doda Amini minute that what was significant about speaking of it was being able to understand her her please like in real time. It was very heart wrenching. She was saying, please, send me back. I'm fearing for my life. I'm I could be killed. If I go back. She had never really shown her face used her real name before that. And that's extremely common. If people are daring to tweet at this point anymore from inside Saudi Arabia. They're extremely careful to screen their identities. But she she took to Twitter and said, I'm showing my face amusing. My real name, she was showing pictures of her ID and things like that saying I have nothing to lose now because she felt like her life was at stake. So she just exposed herself completely. But you say this is an example of something bigger, right? When you saw this. You aren't just seeing her newer seeing like a lot of women who came before her, right and are still continuing to come. I knew stories like Dina Ali less loom who had a very similar story in the Philippines, just a year ago where she was at Brian did went online like begs, the international community do something. And there wasn't a response. And she was repatriated. And we don't really know where she is today. So I was I was not sure how the story would go. of course, ra- half was granted asylum in Canada. She got off the plane went through customs. And then she got a big hug from Canada's foreign minister, but Sarah wants us to look at these other women women who might not be as lucky because in the last few years, the number of Saudi citizens seeking asylum has risen dramatically. Yes. So even just the official numbers till story. It's I think close to tripled. It really speaks to the reality that women face that they're they're willing to take such incredible risks. I spoke to some women you told me, you know, they're in their mid or late twenties, and they had never left the house without the permission or company of their male guardian. And yet these women are daring to sneak downstairs Steeler, father's phones and use their phones. There's a app that Saudi menus to register their women, basically, it's called up shit and. Bananas by the way for that. There's an app for the interior ministry and through that women can if they can get into their father's account. They can grant themselves permission to travel. One woman said, you know, her father kept her passport in safe shift to break into the safe. She had basically she described to me holding onto her father's phone and shaking so hard. She she was weeping and shaking as she told me this memory took her three tries to even dare to open the phone because just the concept of disobeying, her father was so terrifying. She she had like been frozen. Saudi Arabian women have been dealing with so-called guardianship laws for decades these policies prevent a woman from doing much of anything without the explicit permission of her father. Her husband, even an adult, son. Sarah's going to explain why there's been this sudden surge in women leaving the kingdom, and whether RAF Muhammed's escape is going to change anything for the women left behind. Hello everyone. It's made the greatest president in the history of residents those people Trump cast or at it, again, they're that satisfied with just being a podcast and being highly rated no they're taking the show on the road. I'm advising you do not go. See Trump gas alive in of all places. Abashed jn of liberalism gerbil. Turbo skate, California. And Los Angeles is the worst. Don't buy at slate dot com slash live. Do it. Sara is he's describes covering Saudi Arabia as a kind of ho beat. You know, we buy their oil. We sell them arms. They're bad human rights terrible at women's rights other great women's oppression. All these things are still true, but she says fears back her beat started getting a little more interesting because of one person. Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince how did things change when he came to power because he presented himself to the west as being a great supporter of women's rights, and allowing them into drive and opening movie theaters. And so how did things change in way that you think is part of the cause of this uptick in people leaving the country. Yeah. I mean, there was a big burst of of enthusiasm optimism, especially in twenty sixteen when he rolled out this grand agenda. He calls vision twenty thirty which has all these ambitious goals about how he wants to change and reform and improve the country by the year, twenty thirty increasing women's employment. It's it's very. Capitalistic in its in its real aims. He talks about wanting to make Saudi Arabia destination for global capital. And he understands that the image of Saudi Arabia. You know, it's very marred by its human rights record. And it's a reputation as being the only country that doesn't let women drive or a place where women are oppressed. So he understood that it would do him well to clean that up. So he's definitely touted, you know, the these movie theaters leading women attend a soccer game. And I spoke to women in Saudi Arabia who are huge soccer fans. And that was a great moment for them. And some of them were really excited to drive, and they come from, you know, socioeconomic class where they do have access to a car, and that is going to significantly impact their life. But there are many many women who would tell me that their lives haven't changed. You you go regularly to Saudi Arabia. So I'm wondering how you've seen it personally. I was there this summer watching women take the wheel for the first time in history, and and some of them pray. As they were literally singing the praises of MB s they were so excited, and the some of that could be sincere and some of that might be to make them feel safer tends to be an addendum on every conversation. People like to throw in you know, like praising him Bs. I think a lot of it might just be this attitude of paranoia because at the same time as all of these reforms are promised reforms and Bs was locking up hundreds of Saudis in a way that was pretty unprecedented and pretty brazen in the kingdom. So he locked up a bunch of very conservative clerics, for example, influential shakes and things like that at the same time. He locked up liberals intellectuals academics what we believe people who follow this is. He was preemptively locking them up because he's very very consumed with controlling the narrative completely so on all ends of the spectrum and in the middle people were going to jail. It was very unclear in some cases why except that. He was afraid they might criticize him. So even people I know who were adamantly praising NBS and excited to hopefully, see further reforms some of them went to jail. Some of them have completely evacuated Twitter and are completely laying low even after forty years of activism, people in very prominent families people who were absolutely pro government, but just hoping to cooperate with government in ushering in these changes that they were so excited to hear announced from, you know, the Royal court turns out he's not interested in having cooperation he's not interested in an anyone who would complicate or criticize his narrative. So just sounds like sociopath. It is. It's very thorough Teheran. Yeah. Where it's just the end point is the power. You went to Germany and followed a woman named Rana. Can you tell me her story, sir? So she's this incredibly right kind smart woman who was from Riyadh. She's the oldest of eight children, and she grew up in a really suppressive like abusive home, her father, and at times, her mother were just very physically and mostly verbally emotionally abusive. Mostly her father undermined Oliver temps to pursue her her career, and then told her that they'd found her husband, it would that was sort of sweeter the personal like her last straw. She said I saw him. I saw the end of my future. I thought maybe I would be lucky, and he'd be a liberal, man. But he just told me he wanted me to start having kids and stay at home with them soon as we got married. So she convinced her fiance to take our honeymoon. And she began researching where where the best asylum laws were you know, sort of through these underground like forums of women who? Ran away or wanted to run away. And she heard Germany was a really good place. They fled Germany, and when they land in the airport to begin their honeymoon. She stepped up to the immigration officer with the handwritten no English and German that said I wanted fly for asylum, and my husband doesn't know and they took her into the system. And yeah, she began the process of becoming a refugee in Germany, and that's how she got her start. And you describe how she really lives her life in fear. She feels like people are following her all the time. It's not something that she expected even with all her research. It seems like something that's getting much more common much recently. But she and several other Saudi women that I met who are her friends. They started getting messages harassing messages from pro government, people her family her friends back home were interrogated and harassed by the authorities multiple different departments. And in some cases, they they've been followed personally. Confronted by men, not preventing an presenting any government idea or anything, but speaking Saudi Irving to them showing up their doorsteps saying, we know who you are. We know where you live, and you're gonna be sorry. And then another thing that's very common very chilling in light of Jamal Shoji's tragedy. Is that many women get some into the embassy for vagaries ins Sarah says Saudi Arabian embassy's, the become these black boxes. Once you get inside, your unsound soil might not be able to leave and she knew this even before Jamal kashogi disappeared when he entered a consulate in Turkey last fall. When I heard that he had gone into the embassy. I was really done to nervous because I had at that point spoken to so many Saudi experts who had experiences with the Saudi government trying to lure them into the and unanimously they all knew not to go, you know, is very ominous. And I was panicking. I was like that was a really bad idea the Saudi government summoned Rana to the embassy. By using her friends back home as leverage should start at a small business with them. The government froze their assets said we're going to keep your friends stuff until you show up. So she went she had a roommate stand outside to wait for her the same way Jamal kashogi had his fiancee stand outside waiting for him. She waited for hours was interrogated insulted. They didn't want to speak to her about her business, associates or Bank accounts area. Which is why she was there. Why presumably she had been summoned? They just kind of late into her right from the get-go saying that she was she hadn't suffered in Saudi Arabia. She was just trying to get back at her family for something. And she told me I realized two things they weren't going to help me. And I better shut up about human rights and better get out of there as soon as I could. So she just started to be very Akwesasne. She was shoot say I'll think about it. Okay. When runner heard what had happened with Jamal kashogi? What was her reaction? Just like all the women. I spoke to their deeply shaken, and they they all told me, you know, they feel like there's nothing that he won't do. And it's not just that. There are no boundaries for him. But no physical boundaries. No geographical boundaries for 'em Bs for MB s. Right. That you know, he killed this very well known respected older gentlemen on foreign soil. So they feel a lot more vulnerable. As young anonymous women most of them have been completely cut off by their families. So they just feel like they're living in a world where there are no guarantees. There's no protection for them. And they have this incredible courage in this incredible desire for life. So through all of that fear. They're still attempting to learn German. They're still attempting to start a new life. Some of them are trying to date or get work or just really just live normal life. Because that is why they risked everything after all is to have a real life. But they have to do it under this cloud of knowing we're probably being watched those of them who wanted to engage in activism a lot of. Them were excited to get outside of Saudi Arabia's could start at least tweeting about women's rights have shut down their Twitter. They they don't go near anything political. They're trying to keep their heads down and just carry on. So that's a partial victory for NBS. That's really tragic. Yeah. I mean, I think for a lot of people they wonder, well, what are the consequences, and what came through to me from your reporting with how real the consequences could be one of the women you followed. Lena went to a hearing in Germany where she was denied asylum and the judge told her like, oh you, but it's fine in Saudi Arabia now, you should go back. And it just struck me that not having this on the record. And this is what we believe is going on has real consequences that trickle down some of the most vulnerable people as and some people are still adhering to that line that all they know is women couldn't drive now, they can vaguely these ideas of reforms. It's interesting because you mentioned how this is gone on for years, we've known their human rights abuses. We've known how Saudi Arabia treats women for a long time. And I do feel like there's this sense that like that's just the way things are and that they won't change. And sort of acceptance of it, and I wonder if you would tell a story about Saudi women from your time there that you think would surprise us or sort of give some nuance to that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm glad you asked. Because I do think it's important we spent most of our time so doling on the ugliest and worst. But a lot of women do find their lives better. I did a piece for harpers about a year and a half ago about the underground fitness community of women, and this was pre NBS reforms and things like that. But women at the time women's gyms were actually illegal. And so there's this great network of women who had opened the sort of covert gyms and their basements or posing as salons or spas or things like that. But on the inside there actually, teaching kickboxing or Zimba things like that. So there's these incredible very excited in vibrant women who have been fine. Ending ways around the restrictions to pursue their passions. Start businesses one thing that that is a positive for them under NBS. He's he's made entrepreneurship a lot more viable in Saudi Arabia in recent years because as I said, he's very driven by capitalistic kind of concerns. So there are a lot of commerce. There's a lot of women who are actually telling me, I'm really excited proud to be Saudi for the first time. This was prima hush Oji. They come from families and socio economic backgrounds that are privileged. But there's a there's a complex picture. Sarah's been back to Saudi Arabia. Dozens of times since she was a kid. I asked her if it's weird to get off a plane and suddenly be there where women's told. She's inferior where there isn't a constitution. But there are laws giving your father complete control over your movement. No because I grew up there like I feel a personal stake in what's happening in that country makes me sad. Because I've always thought it could be so much more than it is. And I would love to have hope for it. Sara. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much for having meets. It's great. You can find Sarah as latest reporting in the New Yorker. One. Last rabbit hole jumped down today later this morning, you're gonna learn who's getting nominated for an Oscar this year. But here's my question. Why don't we have a host the Oscars has been having a rough couple of months? And usually I'm just talking to myself about this stuff. But today, I decided to talk to our producer Daniel. Yeah. So Kevin Hart was originally supposed to host the Oscars this year and that did not pan out. Okay. For people who don't remember. What happened? He had been found to have tweeted, some homophobic tweets. Ten years old. This is stuff. I've addressed I've of polish ask for it. I'm not going to pay it any mind. So then he's just out. He's not doing it anymore. And by now, you would think they would have a new host slated. But that's that's not the case there. No one's. So is this happened before? Yeah. So in nineteen Eighty-nine and happened yet. There was no host. And it was like a mess like is like wind down infield, Julie Andrews and a bunch of other act- actors wrote to the academy. It was like this is an embarrassment. Yeah. Wrote them a letter. It was rough. It does kind of seem like the worst job. Why are the Oscars just like so much less fun than like the Golden Globes? The Oscars are a little more self serious. And also Golden Globes is like has dislike reputation for being the fun one where it's like everyone's like talking and eating throughout the entire show like people are getting drunk, but it's funny, and like you you can just. Throw Tina Fey and Amy Poehler up there to make like we're jokes, and it's fine because that's like their reputation. So the Oscars are like your dad's awards show. Yeah. It ranges from like bland too bad with some good movements like the Ellen selfie. Like, that's a huge pop cultural moment happened at the Oscars. But like I feel people don't come away from an Oscars hosting being like that was exceptional who I think that they should hire. I should hire Michelle wolf. Yeah. Never do it. But but I feel like it's like they need that they need someone. Who's like I would watch that watch that a thousand percent. I think most of America, would you would hate watch it. You would love watch it. You would watch it just to watch it. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean now at this point that we don't have a host. I think it's going to be interesting either way like either they're going to really pull it off. And it could be like interesting or the other way around it could be horrible, which is also very time to watch. So we'll see. What next is hosted by me Mary Harris and today I'd like to thank my producers. Mary Wilson Jason deleo and the best producer in a supporting role. It goes to Daniel Hewitt, if you're enjoying what next leave us a rating or review on itunes. It helps other people find the show. You can follow me on Twitter at Mary's desk. Talk to you tomorrow.

Saudi Arabia Twitter Oscars Germany Saudi Arabian Saudi government NBS Jamal kashogi Sara Sarah government Middle East Doda Amini Canada Rana soccer Daniel Hewitt California
Weekend: Ed Norton; Cynthia Erivo is 'Harriet'; QOTSA frontman; Raphael Saadiq and more

The Frame

51:46 min | 1 year ago

Weekend: Ed Norton; Cynthia Erivo is 'Harriet'; QOTSA frontman; Raphael Saadiq and more

"KPCC PODCASTS are supported by Warner brothers presenting the Good Liar November fifteenth I've always liked the line every great produced and stars in the Crime Drama motherless Brooklyn it took him twenty it could read like a marvel movie which was very late groundbreaking and on your desert roots and is it morally okay for an arts group to partner with the did you see podcasts are supported by Warner brothers presenting offers a clever unpredictable game of cat-and-mouse in the vein of a hitchcock thriller imbued here is November Fifteenth Welcome to the frame weekend I'm John Horn they do what they do and about how their art is shaped by the wider world later even the actor burst onto the scene in one thousand nine hundred ninety six with a chilling performance get something wrong with me that's the first thing to know investigator named Lionel and he's got Herat's only it's the nineteen call him freak show you know it seems less discordant with what I would call modern sensitivities creation and loneliness within his affliction the novel upon seen now as it been fits and starts has it been a little inaccurate only because we the book I got the rights to the book I was very very compelled you at least a year and it proved to be even longer and then I directed the fifty s and mashing it up with this sort of social history of New York in the fifties I was scared to address it for a while so I put it away for a few years and didn't we needed to figure out in a sense of plotting sense as you introduce a villain his character's name Moses Randolph but it feels like it's really clear my character is illiterate area amalgam of Robert is is kind of this kind of a hidden imperial autocrat the power is feeling knowing that you can do whatever you want and if I want to build highways while the rest of the country is broke up punch to any damn neighborhood of of a place and how it came to be what it is I think Nawar the history of what of what happened under Robert Moses Authority a work of fiction but it's placed in a historical context that was true about what was happening to Lionel who is helping this group of people who are African American not you do what they needed to do on their own well actually I'd I'd count that the murder of his mentor and I think that for a long way when he's trying to figure orl- actors they're Gu's character is a black lawyer Oh they are in in a way the moral center of it Lionel is actually fairly she is a person who is not wallowing in her own travails as an African American what I would call you know get off the fence kind of an action I'd actually but notice says the house will be condemned it's not true but that's scares out about half and they sell for really is a small slammer for the slum Lords Bailey a what you're one of those things for just it's a relevant conversation because it's not a it's not a metaphor statement to in New York like lower bridges that they make the height of bridges such that is and then built slums you know you kind of want to sometimes look at these Thom Yorke Song called daily battles and what it gave you in telling the I've been friends with Tom Dat sensation of spiritual longing but they had a lot to do with the way Lionel's terrific obsessive compulsive erling brain and I just you know you you you go to the things you love when you make a movie the voice were kind of the voicing I wanted for Lionel's motherless Brooklyn is in theaters now you're listening to the frame weekend earlier this year I drove out to palm springs to visit desert acts the organization that Presents Desert X. is being widely criticized for partnering with Saudi. Thanks for coming in happy to be here so you have given the art in desert -ation ship to art and artists and why it is to your mind so problematic is one of the countries in the world where freedom of expression which just the very concept of attempting to do a commissioned art exhibition. I'm on in the two thousand eighteen murder of the Washington Post journalist Jamal Kashogi column a column was written just days before his murder which the men and women on the street had no avenue with and Board Chair Susan Davis has said I'm quoting her now it is better to engage because of the prohibitions on free expression in that situation is already circumscribed by what's allowed so this across the Global Desert Coachella Valley to the Middle East or Saudi Arabia has money Saudi Arabia has a lot of money. NBS himself as something of a new business model in Saudi Arabia and there's been a lot of attention paid to vision twenty thirty as it's principally about maintaining the power of the Saudi royal family the ask global climate change accelerates and investment it to diversify the economy of the country and cultural tourism is one in desert acts or what I'm calling desert bone saw to participate in this ah the L. A. Times let's talk about the board of desert ex at least three members have and I think it's also worth maybe raising the issue is does desert X. needs somebody trans- but desert acts has jeopardized that patronage I would say on your board resigns in protest over what you're doing it is to what degree are arts organizations or curator's or even visitors in lines and pardon the pun but lines in the sand the La Times thanks for coming in thanks for having very present the the most important thing for me was really about trying welcome back to the frame weekend we've turned abolitionist has received a big screen treatment and the film Harriett in the new stars followed the river. LISTEN AW I don't know if you know extraordinary the British actress Cynthia Areso plays Harriet Tubman she also on Howard about the story that you WanNa tell what were the things that were essential to the movie before I came on so you inherited his I inherited his script on which was I'm said wanted to stay true to that but at the time that Gregory wrote the was an adventure story wonderful heart pounding adventure story where the the heroine happened to he made up a lot of stuff about her background her family what had happened to them and I once Houston not every actor gets to face to the Sun doc is I I like to think is my second language so I I use it a lot to communicate who I guess use my voice for her me myself out the way like was a little bit like had ground we wanNA plantation so to be Casey music plays such a central you understand him for the audience to understand that these songs were received would not understand the purpose of the song and so it was a form of communication it a weapon of resistance this she uses her voice in those songs to call versus meant don't come yet it's not safe you know I'll let you know when it dependent with Casey Lemon the writer director of Harriet and Cynthia Revo who plays Harriet Tubman in the film skill and careful planning it requires weeding Harry right to the office you got Lucky Harriet and there's nothing clamming nearly drowned nothing in for days and days and I made it can slave but this is as contemporary as any movie can be we really didn't WanNA Her you know got to really access her yeah I think it was the the emotions and she had feelings and she could get angry and she could you know be fully emotionally available as it possibly could so that those feelings are real you know it just felt like one of the most it was that was definitely a scene I was looking forward to to Harriet Cynthia revoke plays Harriet Tubman in the film and also does some music in is in theaters now run segments from song explode on the show it's the great podcast where musicians artist from Oakland California is latest solo album is called Jimmy Sleepworld Sung with my nephew dealing wiggins was up I'm dealing Wiggins Aka Sir which just this idea these courts had on guitar and like my grandfather's music something from back in the time they then reversed and then just try to make those real as possible and as as human as possible and most records in My records titled Jimmy Lee so Jimmy Lee is my brother aw from you know no matter how big or strong you are beautiful you are it's a seamless in his hands diller the person around you that makes it available you know just like wants to keep you high they come in the middle of the night they're always smiling always sneaky so suit supply and all those being no what happened you know just what's going on my life so I wanted to put those breasts behind the dope even when I'm clean I'm still a dope thing I'm also talking about people who are not we all have addictions after Senate from our just kind of like who knows what's going to happen a law software but when he came with the energy I was like Dang this took that super sad song to you know for me talking about addicted to drugs he was pretty much curiosity killed the cat he tried to chemical one hundred percent directly to it and you know that was my take odd cast from host and producer reshare way you can find it wherever you like to listen to it and speaking of listening there's a new documentary gene start as a picture editor but after a couple of jobs in sound editing to loud that is not our fault I just want to say that right here it's like it's usually produces directors is but it works in our favor because we do all these things it sounds negative to it or really really bad I might but I've got to go back and listen because here's the deal if it's wells like legit was really inventive and did a lot with sound because he came from you've sound we don't for some reason we know vision like we know that we're being affected Sound is the first sense gets plugged in I'm from the garage it's and we don't even know why those low end sounds well if there's a low and sound some big little bit of score but there are some effects and we looked at each other said something bad is about to sand the action singers one of them what is Barbra streisand's contribution to sounded one allen was in one of the top engineers at Dolby new into Ray Dolby and said we're all like yeah sounds good but we don't really need that because you can imagine how much money it would cost oh now definitely we want that us to involve view as an audience member in to the they changed the system in Stanley Kubrick was doing clockwork orange and they George Lucas and Gary Kurtz were doing star wars and they definitely wanted to use you know stereo wave the art of cinematic sound a lot of the movie is about the various how they came up with the sounds of two Baca that involve a baby bear the way they got it to knew that he needed to have a language that made sense and he sent he wanted things to be real it's the whole idea of star wars which we love so much instead of everything looking Walter merged mix the film along with Richard Beggs and Mark Berger did only worked album by tomato which was quad sound which we tracked down it was interesting to and now that's the standard that we use now rich Causton is the director of the documentary making next the film makers of Greener Grass were looking for a visual way to depict American so painful yet they've project the promise of future perfection TV shows but none quite like greener grass it was written France's Jocelyn and dawn pitched their idea like this I guess it was something like isn't she cute we wanted to try something there she's so cute elise on you can have her she's great sure I'm short so you you're starting with that baby example because I think it it's a my character gives away her baby in the beginning of the movie but that you what they think other people's expectations of them are for us I'm dead level because it feels like you are very intentional about the rules for the way home works for the actors that are working in it yes tone was everything she Jill comes over the protagonists with the TACO dip and says dot line Mary improvised in the moment but it's so exactly right for the tone is the visual look

Saudi Arabia Warner brothers L. A. Times murder Harriet Tubman NBS Middle East Washington Post Cynthia Areso Coachella Valley Jamal Kashogi Harriett Susan Davis Howard one hundred percent
The Missing Peace

Pod Save the World

1:20:16 hr | 2 months ago

The Missing Peace

"Positive is brought to you by Article Your home tells your story whether you're an art lover it craft collector or just a well curated space article is here with pieces that help you showcase your personal style with designs, crafted solid woods, touchable textures, and a refined color. Palette articles latest collection. It makes it easy to curate a space that feels unique to you article ninety curation of a boutique furniture store with the comfort simplicity of shopping online. Their team of designers focuses on beautifully crafted pieces, quality materials, endurable construction they're dedicated to a modern aesthetic of mid-century. Scandinavian industrial and Bohemian designs. Here's the best part. The great prices you save up to thirty percent off traditional retail prices. Article is able to keep their prices low by cutting out the middleman and selling directly to you know showroom sales people, no retail markups fast affordable shipping is available across the US and Canada. It is free. Shipping is free on orders over nine, hundred, ninety, nine dollars. All in items are delivered within two weeks or less, and there's that's my favorite part. That's a really good thing weeks who lasts for furniture furniture and take for ever end. Gets Better John Thirty Day return policy with simple returns and exchanges articles offering our listeners fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more. GO TO ARTICLE DOT COM slash world in the discount will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article DOT COM slash world get fifty bucks off your first purchase of one hundred dollars more check it out. Welcome back to Pat Save the world on Tommy Detour I'm Ben Rhodes. Then it just like the old days when you a world traveler, you're currently in new. York City, I believe I am visiting my parents for some have left Los Angeles since the beginning of March House the plane I e the crazy thing right. As you you know, you get you get into the airport and every single human is wearing a mask and being. Very careful when you got on the plane and he's wearing a mask and people are cleaning their seats with wipes and stuff like that and it does make you feel a better. Awesome. Do you think like what people clear able of doing this? You know like like why are people doing this? You know everywhere, we have looked this by now but yeah I, I had one of those my sister-in-law's an er nurse so to her theresa. And so she gave me these n ninety, five masks the. Where those are good. You you. You feel like I didn't take that thing off for like seven hours and you feel like nothing's getting through that thing. Hopefully that's great. Well. It's good to see you. Today is one of the first days that my throat hurts from this stupid smoke in Los Angeles. So you are you're smart to escape. We've got a great show today. So we're GONNA talk about these peace agreements in quotes between Israel and the UAE in Israel and Bahrain that were signed at the white. House today, we'll talk about the recently started Afghan Taliban US peace talks happening cutter some disturbing allegations from a whistleblower. At the Department of Homeland Security they did not get enough coverage given how disturbing they are We'll talk about what the US needs to do globally to combat climate change so that I can breathe someday the ongoing refugee crisis in Europe and Iranian assassination plot in some more great topics. Then our guest today is former US ambassador to Russia Mike mcfaul. We're GONNA talk to him about, Russia the protests in Belarus in. Should approach. Russia. If he wins. So stick around for that. Couple of quick things for the show. We have an amazing newsletter here crooked media. It's called what a day it's like the podcast as we head into the homestretch of the election. If you're not subscribed trust me, it is worth it is written and curated by crooked media's own Sara Lazarus who is so funny and so smart our team curates together. So go to crooked dot com slash subscribe to check it out also do not miss today's episode of missing America Ben is looking at the seemingly endless wars in the middle. East talking to to former political prisoners. Then it's like the White House time these announcements. To to coincide with your show serendipity. Yeah, I mean I actually I was GonNa talk a little bit about it in the context of the quote unquote historic peace agreements. But because what we look at the the we tried to look at this differently, we look at the intersection between the forever wars in the Middle East and the US support for autocrats because those things are interrelated. In why the US has this mindset that it needs a sport autocrats needs to fight forever wars and we hear an extraordinary story. I I people should just for the story Muhamed Soltan, who was a political prisoner in Egypt was tortured was recruited by Isis in his prison cell because Egypt in government was leading those isis recruiters roam the prisons because they wanted to radicalize the opposition. We hear you know Jason resigned. So we have ron and then we hear from some great voices, Chris Murphy. Roe conn uh John Brennan about how to how to end the forever words and had to change our mindset about the Middle East. So we're checking out for sure absolutely. So speaking about a crafts, we had a couple of the White House today besides the president so The leaders of Israel, the United, Arab, Emirates in Bahrain they all gather with trump at the White House there extensively there to sign a diplomatic agreement between Israel and the UAE an agreement between Israel in Bahrain, and then some document that all three sign But the timing is about trying to get trump a political win before the election. Let's just be clear about why this is happening. Israel, the UAE in Bahrain view around their mortal enemy. They think trump will let them do basically anything they want in service of stopping. Iran Ben You know we talked about the UAE is a piece of this. We haven't talked about Bahrain for those unfamiliar with Bahrain and that's understandable. It's a tiny little archipelago in the Persian Gulf the the main island, which is like most of the land mass, which is I think three. Times the size of Washington DC is connected by highway to Saudi Arabia. So the Saudis have a lot of control over their political affairs. It's a constitutional monarchy ruled by a Sunni royal family despite having a Shia majority state. So they are especially paranoid about Iran or the four somehow toppling their government I think of the million and a half people in Bahrain. Hafer immigrants a lot of them do really backbreaking Labor that is horribly unethical. The US. We have a major interest in Bahrain because of the Navy's Fifth Fleet is headquarters there along with the US. Navy Forces Central Command. So the Fifth Fleet is responsible for operations in the Gulf the Red Sea parts of the Indian Ocean. Long Story Short, they got a lot of hardware. And they have a lot of responsibility for region that's basically been at war for two decades. So you know we haven't seen this text yet ben as of starting the recording, which is annoying. The administration keeps trying to call this a Middle East peace deal, which is so dishonest. That's usually referring to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The Palestinian completely left out of this discussion. Frankly, they feel abandoned by Gulf Arab countries that used to advocate for their interests. So Ben, you know what's your take on this deal and your response to people like Brad Stevens over the New York? Times who argues that? Conventional wisdom that solving the Israeli Palestinian problem was the key to unlocking peace in the region has proven to be wrong and that's what's needed. Now is what Brett calls quote and Alliance of Moderates and. Modernizers. Well look. You're right focus on the peace part. There's there's no peace was made like there's no rare was analyst at work conflict was concluded Bach Rain in the we were never a war with Israel and have been you know under the table friendly with Israel for some time. Now, it is a good thing that Israel now has to other Arab states that have agreed to normalize relations with them that will facilitate things like travel and trade. So that's good for for Israel's greater inclusion. But there's no change to the wars in the region no changed the autocracy in the region and no change, the status of the Palestinian. So it's it's really disingenuous to call us a peace agreement and I you know the media's kind of gone gone along with this and Yeah Bahrain is a country of just over a million people here. So this is not. This is not the Camp David Accords. This is not Israel breaking peace with Egypt and Jordan. It's neighbors big important. Arab. Countries that hit had fought multiple wars with this is Israel making normalization agreements with a couple of oil-rich autocrats essentially to help trump before an election and it's Just, it's not as as seismic deals, all these people like Brad Stevens trying to dunk on everybody about portray and I. Think there's some troubling aspects to it as well. You know there's a war that has been ongoing in Yemen for the last several years that should never have started with US support at least in the Obama Administration with trump escalade that support that has killed over one hundred thousand people and tens of thousands more and a famine that none of these guys talked about that even though they're the ones who've been in that war. The Palestinians are still without a state and are you know still Israel still building settlements and nothing is changing in the Israeli Palestinian conflict so This is about autocrats coming together to do each other favors to do trump a favor before his election. To do. Netanyahu favor when Israel's on lockdown because of covert again because of his mismanagement of covid. What's in it for the UN Bahrain while they want trump to win and I think if Biden wins I, think they're hoping that this might. Make It more difficult for abide administration to rethink the kind of blend check of support we've had to the Gulf and then lastly. United in the united in their hand antipathy and hatred for Iran. and. So they're just going you know formalizing what has been the status quo for over the last decade, which is that these governments Israel and the Gulf countries apply pressure on the United States to confront. Iran into try to. Pursue regime change policy, and which I don't think is going to work and I think the nuclear deal worked better in. Iran looking at this is only increasing its nuclear program right? So there's no peace made here. There's no resolution to the autocracy issues that we talked about too. But trump has a big photo op that he's playing up to be something that I think is not nearly as significant as he says, even if you know inside of this okay, it's good that Israel has to more countries that recognize it. Yeah. I mean I it is wild that bb Netanyahu jumped on a plane given that on Friday Israel's going to go into a second nationwide lockdown because of a huge surge of Cova cases that is I, guess threatening to overwhelm their healthcare system that means schools businesses restaurants are going to close apparently people have to stay within five hundred meters of their home. So it's a pretty serious lockdown. What do you make of the suggestion that? If Bahrain is willing to cut this deal with the Israelis that means the Saudis tacitly approved it which means they could be next which I think a lot of people would see as a bigger deal given the size of the players but you know there has been a suggestion in a lot of the reporting that Mohammed bin Salman is looking to do whatever he can do kind of launder or expunge his murder of Jamal Kashogi. The Washington, post columnist who was killed in Turkey two years ago. Now, there's no question that this would not be happening if NBS had not. Bothering doesn't do anything without checking with NBS first. and. Two is been in lockstep with NBS. But again, this shows you the character of the people make these agreements and and these are not people interested in peace. You know there's something offensive about watching them use the language of peace as they wages war in Yemen as they repress around people as they frankly Jonesing for the United States to be in a confrontation with Iran that's what they're interested in and you know what? What I hate is the way these are framed in the United States it's framed like a reality show like Oh. Trump had a photo op that you call the Middle East. Peace deal with some of these leaders. But what about the people? What about the tens of thousands of people at risk of famine in Yemen, what about the Palestinians who don't have the state? What about the people living under repression in these countries Bach rain as a majority Shia country where the Shia are essentially oppressed by a small suny minority I mean the people of the Middle East are absent from any of these conversations and the the conflicts whether it's in Iraq or Syria or Yemen or not at all resolved by this never mind the Palestinians and so I, just hope that we don't. Continually. Fall for the idea that that this is some kind of optics show put on for an American audience in which you know the Arab leaders play a role of standing there in a signing ceremony. I didn't like it by the way when we had kind of these Middle East peace conferences in the Obama administration where everybody got to look like they were doing something and nothing got done. Some of you were there for those Tommy. Frustrating. Moments for you know for me at the time and even more. So in retrospect. So like let's just not over hyped this stuff, this is again the best thing you can say is Two Countries Israel hadn't been at war with our normalizing ties, and that may open up some additional trade and people to people exchanges. The idea that these guys are the moderates and the modernizers and. That's what they've been saying about NBS for you member he was a modernizer, a reformer and an astronaut Kashogi like how much of a modernizer this guy is. A So the other like major set of peace talks are actually happening right next door to Bahrain in in order. So these are the long-awaited direct talks between the Taliban. And representatives of the Afghan government the are happening because back in February the US agreed to basically get all US troops out of Afghanistan, release a timetable to do so that deal. Included a prisoner swap that exchange five thousand Taliban prisoners for one thousand Afghan security forces being held by the Taliban that exchange it took months to actually lineup. It held the start of these direct talks but eventually happened. The talks have also been. By the fact that the Afghan government has been bitterly fighting ever since their disputed election last year. So you know a few thoughts been. I just because there are peace talks, it doesn't mean that there is peace in Afghanistan right I, mean there's a ceasefire between US forces and the Taliban, but not between Afghan forces and the Taliban and the Afghans taking enormous casualties literally a week ago. Ten people in Kabul were killed by roadside bomb that was targeting the vice president of Afghanistan. So they're going after senior officials were part of these talks. Luckily, he survived second I'm glad that the peace talks are happening but I just want to be clear that like they are only politically possible because the US agreed to remove our troops in normally that kind of decision would be demagogued people like Lindsey Graham. If Obama was president, Fox News in the whole Republican Party would be accusing him of cutting and running and talking about how he brokered a deal that allowed five thousand Taliban guys out of prison. They'll say that you know they're going to do everything. They can to stop this deal because the only accessible withdrawal should be conditions based Bob. Papa right like to trump's credit he ignored those people. But we should be clear that the Republican Party has been the real impediment to peace talks generally, and then just lastly like there's no guarantee of success in it's GonNa take an enormous amount of international support to help rebuild Afghanistan from what it is. Now I would love to hear more about. What we're doing as a country to pass the hat help these people rebuilds after two decades of just unbelievable suffering so Would you make a the talk so far? What kinds of things are you looking for in terms of success? Well, the reality is ever since we cut our deal with the Taliban you know the United States cut our deal with the Taliban several months ago things have gotten worse in Afghanistan. The Taliban is not stop fighting and killing Afghan security forces engaging in. Brutal attacks. Tack on a Maternity Ward Right. So the question I've always had since that happened is you know even if you just think we should remove our troops you don't have to. Cut a deal that in kind of empowers elevates the Taliban on the way out I mean you prefer to have a deal in place between the Taliban and the Afghan government that is real in that gives you know the Afghan people say in is not thrust upon the Afghans by Mike. POMPEO and the Taliban you know. and. So I look for is whether this is something that the Afghan government and the Afghan people genuinely seem to feel comfortable with that. It assures you know that they'll be an end to the fighting or at least significant reduction in the fighting and some agreement about the country's future. Again. So uncomfortable watching all this Tommy is that like it feels like all of the leverage of the US government is being brought to bear to generate kind of a series of photo. OPS. Before the election and and I don't say that because I don't want trump to win the election, which obviously don't I say that because like you, we saw this bizarre Serbia custodial deal where they didn't even know what they were signing was. Mean literally, the serving government went back on what they had signed because they said, they didn't know that they agree bird. Today. We again see this massive hype the Middle East peace of it. And then you see this and you can't make you wonder. Are Is this a genuine effort or is this kind of an effort that is is pressuring people to do things that they're not ready to do. Or that hasn't been fully baked to create a series of photo ops before an election that after the election won't have solved the problem. So where I where would hope is that the Afghans can sort this out on their own. The Afghan government has a real voice in isn't just pressured into things by US What I worry about is that in our haste to create this photo, op were basically potentially handing the country over to the Taliban. I I worry a lot about that as well aboard keep an eye on these talks so. This story didn't get a ton of pickup last week Ben Because of the the Woodward Book and other stuff going on. But I think it's actually a very big deal that we should talk about which is a according to a whistle blower complaint released by the House Intelligence Committee top officials at the Department of Homeland. Security repeatedly forced subordinates to change intelligence assessments to match things trump said or like generally not make him look back. So the complaint itself was filed by Brian Murphy who used to head DHS's intelligence and analysis department. Until he was let go because he collected intelligence on reporters with small little students user. Here the specific allegations. So former Secretary Nielsen repeatedly and knowingly lied about the number of individuals with suspected links to terrorism who attempted to cross or did cross border into the US. Specifically lied to Congress and if this is true, this would be perjury acting deputy secretary Ken Kuching Alley told Murphy, the whistle blower to alter intelligence reports about Guatemala. El Salvador. Honduras to make those countries up safe presumably so that trump could force asylum seekers to go there, which is horribly unethical. Chad. Wolf your friend. FRAT. Chad the acting secretary told Murphy to stop providing intelligence assessments about Russian interference in instead focus on China in Iran and their alleged interference efforts if they exist. This was reportedly relaying a demand from Robert O'Brien the national security adviser and Wolf and Kuching Alley told Murphy to downplay the threat from white supremacist groups and play up alleged threats from mtpa. So again, some people are questioning Murphy, the whistleblowers credibility because he was demoted for collecting Intel on reporters but like to me, the story feels a lot like the Atlantic piece about trump denigrating the US military in that the existing public. Record backs up the allegations right? Like we know the administration lied repeatedly about threats at the southern border to justify the wall to try to scare voters for the midterms we know that they changed asylum policy to force migrants to I apply for asylum in Guatemala El Salvador Honduras as a way to basically shut down all immigration despite this country's being unsafe and we know that the White House has played down Russian interference efforts. And tried to both sides it with China and Ron Trump just can't handle hearing about Russian interference so I don't know this is like brazen lying and manipulation of intelligence the whistle or complain itself coincides with news that the Intel community is no longer going to give in person briefings to members of Congress on foreign election interference. So the moment we need this kind of information most they are suppressing it, it's like I. It just so brazen than I. don't even know what to say. Yeah, and this this matters to people should be a bigger story because this directly affects the safety of Americans because they're suppressing real information about dangerous threats to the American people like the threat from white supremacy in from from white nationalist groups who we have seen kill Americans and harm Americans over the course of the last several years right and we saw it. In Wisconsin we saw it at the tree of life synagogue. We have seen it in in Paso. A real problem in now they're not dealing with it, but they're actively suppressing information that is because they find it politically inconvenient to them. In the same way that Russia's intervention, our election threatens the integrity and the potential for free and fair election. In this country, it doesn't get more fundamental than your potential safety in your community and a potential that a foreign power can dictate the outcome of our election. These are real things right that are being suppressed in. This idea that we're going to hype up, you know the caravans. For the midterm election, you know the they're being directed to hype threats and our southern border to play trump's. View of this wall, and so you have the the full resources of the US government including the tip of the spear. The organization that is meant to protect Americans being completely weaponized to create an alternative version of reality to sue Donald Trump's politics at the expense of the American people security. That's a huge deal and you know nothing breaks through, but it does suggest that if Joe Biden wins. There's going to have to be a lot of work done on the wiring of the Department of Homeland Security and I'm frank skeptical that there's that it can be fully salvaged. Yeah I am I am increasingly with you on one the H. is a Broken place. You know some might ask why they have their own intelligence agency within DHS and I might say great question they probably should. It's ripe for abuse. Let's turn to climate change because you know we're weeks into the state of California literally being on fire the amount of smoke here in L. A. day-to-day but I saw a report yesterday that clouds have made their way all the way to Maine. So that's great I'm glad that like we could share this with you East Coast folks what we're experiencing here. I can barely talk today because it's so thick trump was in California yesterday. Where his response to an urgent plea to follow the science and do something about climate change prevent the fires were seeing was quote it'll start getting cooler. You just watch and quote so. Given that just unbelievable denial ism I wanted to outline some of the contours of. Joe. Biden's climate plan these it's big and it's ambitious and it's a good plan and it's something we should all be talking about posting on social media and sharing with our friends as we try to get them to vote for Biden and not trump so. The big goal is getting to net zero emissions by twenty fifty. So that means like any carbon released into the atmosphere is offset by carbon taken out to put that goal in perspective the US Energy Information Administration estimates that the US admitted five point one billion metric tons of energy related carbon dioxide in two, thousand, seventeen. So we have a lot of work to do. Some of this Biden wants to executive action or by using government procurement power to get one hundred percent clean energy vehicles or one hundred percent efficient US government buildings but he also wants Congress to pass legislation to provide sort of an enforcement mechanism for these targets. So that's winning the Senate and keeping the house is so important he also wants to invest four hundred billion in clean energy research. Now, the US were huge piece of Co two problem were were fifteen percent of global missions. So that obviously leaves the rest of the world for us to be able to actually tackle the problem fully. To get at that, the international peace Biden has pledged to reenter the Paris climate accords and then immediately try to renegotiate in those targets so that it reduces co two emissions even more ben You're part of negotiating the original Paris climate. Accord's what do you think needs to happen diplomatically and internationally to actually tackle climate change while we still can. Yeah and I the same urgency you do Tommy right left come here I remember I saw my daughter Chloe who's three and she had her face looked like it had a particular glow and I thought wow you know looks like she got some Sun and then I realized it was a reflection of the sky you know and then you're thinking she's three. What is the world she's coming up in fires like this every year you know worse and worse. This is the biggest challenge to our country to get to Paris in this foreshadows we have to do so just very quickly. The way we got to Paris is the United States particularly Second Obama, administration did everything we could to reduce our emissions. So you add every regulation, we pass a lot of investments in clean energy. We started a turnaround, the ocean liner of our own economy to move in the direction of Net zero that gave us some leverage. To go abroad and then make this the centerpiece of a lot of bilateral multilateral relationships. We're literally sitting there and getting China and India and Brazil and other countries to raise their own ambitions in order to get into Paris the important about Perez Perez is supposed to be the floor nobody said, that was the end of the work that's the beginning. That's the architecture this agreement within which we all do things and every five years there was always going. To be the idea that we get more ambitious that countries would submit new plans every five years about what their commitments were right. So that's coming up next year. So as you mentioned, the first thing to do is a major investment here in the United States the lines of the green new deal to transition our economy to get to net zero through investments, Newell, Energy and Energy Efficiency but. Then internationally, we have to take that and say look we're back. In the agreement were doing more were raising our ambition and we have to go more cooperatively with other countries to raise. There's so China. You know you've you've had some ambitious initiatives, emissions, reduction targets in China, but China's building all this infrastructure and other countries that is not. Carbon neutral nanny way that is building Co. plants. They have to bring their international objectives in line with Paris India needs to step up its game. Brazil needs to start protecting the Amazon rainforest instead destroying it. So there's something that can take the carbon out of the air, and so what is need is a full court diplomatic press on the Biden team to go to all these other countries to raise the collective ambition of Paris and what are you trying to do because if? You're trying to basically rewire the global economy so that countries are increasingly not using fossil fuels and using clean sources of energy so that markets and investments, no longer go in that direction because it looks like that's being phased out and all that money flows into clean energy technology and energy efficiency technology so that richer countries are helping poorer countries who are going to say, Hey, you guys got to build coal plants when you're developing why can't we? We can say then we're going to help you seed a solar or wind energy infrastructure in your country. This kind of massive effort over the next decade to give humanity a fighting chance of dealing with it if we don't start now. Climate change is already accelerating Ed. What appears to be an exponential rate, four more years of moving in the wrong direction and not only further behind, we might lose the window to be able to affect this year. So this has to be not just a leading domestic party. This has to be the leading foreign policy priority for every us. This is like the Cold War like this is governor has to be organized foreign policy asked to be organized so that for this. Administration and the one after that and the one after that that we can get this done internationally and that means by the way we have to win the Senate so that you can pass legislation through Congress and that means by the way you know Tom Cotton or whatever club deniers put up in twenty twenty four can't win either this is GonNa be sustained agreed it's it. It just could not be more urgent I literally feel it every day when I step outside. Brought to you by article. Your. Home tells your story whether you're an art lover. It craft collector or just a well curated space articles here with pieces that help you showcase your personal style with designs crafted from solid woods, touchable textures, and a refined color Palette articles. Latest collection that makes it easy to curate space that feels unique to you article combined to curation of Boutique Furniture Store with the comfort in simplicity of shopping online, their team designers focuses on beautifully crafted pieces, quality materials, endurable construction they're dedicated to a modern aesthetic of mid-century. Scandinavian industrial. Bohemian designs. Here's the best part the great prices he save up to thirty percent off traditional retail prices articles able to keep their prices low by cutting out the middleman and selling directly to you know showroom. So sales people, no retail markups fast affordable shipping is available across the US and Canada, and it is free. Shipping is free on orders over nine, hundred, ninety, nine dollars all in stock items are delivered within two weeks or less, and there's a that's my favorite part. That's a really good thing. Two weeks last for furniture furniture ten, take forever end. Gets better on thirty day return policy with simple returns exchanges articles offering our listeners, fifty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more. GO TO ARTICLE DOT COM slash world in the discount will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article DOT COM slash world get fifty bucks off your first purchase of one hundred dollars more check it out. Positive world is brought to you by the financial. Times. We have a big election coming up in the middle of a global crisis. You may have heard about it and this campaign, this election and the future of our politics are going to have some far reaching consequences in. It's not just at home for everybody around the world we're talking about German beer in the last ad in the last week's policy. The World I talked about right wing nuts and Cunanan people rallying behind Donald. Trump Germany that's not good. That's the thing we don't want. We don't want that at all. nope. Famously bad combo famously bad. If you want to learn more about this election, US politics, global markets, all the important stuff the Financial Times has launched something called swamp notes. It's a newsletter that provides the global perspective on US politics. Swap notes will also give you context to the worldwide business economic impacts of our election because, of course. Getting rid of Donald Trump is not just important to us. It's important to literally everybody in every corner of the world and you need to be I don't know really one formed. So get the global perspective on this election it'll mean for the economy and for Your Business for your investments for all that go to F t dot com slash crooked media to start your thirty day free access to the swamp notes newsletter. Again, that's F. T. dot com slash crooked media get a thirty free trial to the swamp notes newsletter you will not regret it it's free and it's great. Positive world is brought to you. By HBO. Today guys, we're here to talk about agents of chaos. It's HBO's New Two Part Documentary from Emmy and Academy Award, winning director Alex Gibney and it offers timely revealing look at Russia's interference in the twenty sixteen US presidential election is very important, very timely. The film features in depth interviews with key players going on the record for the first time, they have extensive research into controversial trump Russia dossier. Remember we used to talk about that hoax? All that talk remember the dirty dossier anyway. It follows threat after threat trump's murky Russian involvement in never before seen footage inside Russian tro farms. That's cool. The factories of disinformation chaos sparked a new age political cyberwarfare and are probably doing it right now, as we record this agents of chaos digs into how the Russian machine and it's American cogs work to manipulate the American public and undermine democracy sounding poignant alarm ahead of twenty two, thousand election history very easily. Repeat Itself Watch Part One on Wednesday September twenty third in part to the next night at nine pm on HBO. Let's talk about the European refugee crisis for a minute then because the Greek island of Lesbos has become a symbol of the US failure to deal with the continent's refugee crisis over the last five years, well over a million migrants have ended up in Greece most were escaping conflicts like wars in Syria Afghanistan Sudan Somalia. Libya. But his governments across the EU went from welcoming to migrants to hostile many of them got trapped and what we're supposed to be temporary camps on Greek islands the most notorious of which. Is the Maria camp in Lesbos, which was designed to temporarily house like two or three thousand migrants. But at times had more than twenty thousand asylum seekers living in these temporary shelters for months at a time, the conditions were horrible. They got even worse when Cova arrived to the point where a small group of residents started fires in protests of lockdowns, and they basically burned down what has become Europe's largest refugee camps. So now, an estimated thirteen, thousand former residents of this camp are sleeping outdoors in is just a truly awful situation. The migrants don't want the camp they want off the island, the residents of Lesbos some of whom were once nominated for the Nobel. Peace Prize back in two thousand sixteen because people in fishing boats were saving so many migrants lives as they were trying to cross the GNC from Turkey Greece. Those residents and become incredibly angry about these camps The political situation is awful. They're taking a hard right turn so There's a lot of pieces to this story like there's the conflicts displacing people in fueling the migration crisis. There's the way far right parties demagogue the issue and gained support across Europe but the one constant is just the suffering of these people who have been driven out of their homes. By these post nine eleven crisis I think New York Times estimated at what thirty seven million people who've been driven out by these post nine eleven crisis. So it is really really tough. Yeah. I I I've heard from some people in this region including czar Hollins I had on this podcast resident Joe, the works with refugees in this area, right and what's happening. Is Not only. The deteriorating condition says covert but as you alluded to you've got far right movements that are obstructing aid from going to these refugees you've got local populations who turned against the refugees you got vulnerable people you made more vote by Covid in the streets and you got a Greek government that has moved to the right there is doing nothing is probably tacitly Allowing, this to happen. What needs to happen is the European Union needs to step up here and get this under some control and restore kind of a humane order to this in in which at a minimum eight is able to reach refugees. Far, right and mobs or not harassing refugees. And there's a return to order an and frankly if the US you know changes administration, we get in this game two of your systematically, not only providing aid but resettling people some. Some another European countries people who WANNA. Go home as their way from the safely get home. This is Once again, a humanitarian catastrophe that's not getting as much attention because of. Cova. But a lot of intersecting trans or happening here not just a refugee one but the kind of far-right piece of this, some of the exhaustion with this issue in Europe but they're human lives in the middle of this and we we can't lose sight of that and these are innocent people who've done nothing wrong and lots of children I mean you know you look at the images it's just lots of little kids who have been demagogued by far right parties in the US. And in Europe and called terrorists when in fact, they are babies, women and children and and you know tiny little kids. So horrible situation what we'll try to put some NGOs you can support in the show notes if people want to donate or time or money. Let's talk about our buddy. John Bolton for a quick minute. The Wall Street Journal reported that federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas for former trump national security adviser, John Bolton publisher, and his literary agent, which means there is now a criminal investigation into Bolton's handling of classified information in his book. Bolton himself has reportedly not received a subpoena yet. then. Did you know that Bolton's book sold more than seven, hundred, eighty, thousand copies in the first week? I had no idea I'm very mad at everyone for buying that Shitty book. Can You buy my book? Please? I didn't tell one. Hundred thousand copies. So basically the White House is arguing that Bolton didn't do like the appropriate pre publication review for classified information before publishing at stupid book Bolton says, yes I did I did appropriate revisions. The White House. Just sat on it because they wanted to bottle it up because they knew the publication Barron trump at a minimum it seems like Bolton. Will lose profits from this book. But this this criminal element is pretty ominous for him. Then is that things like a big deal? It's Super Hamas and I'm not. You know friend of John Bolton here but. Is there any reporting or you know the books out? Right? Like what is it was revealed that was harm so damaging, right I. Like this seven hundred, eight, thousand people bought it a lot of people read this book and Have not seen a single news story suggesting that some source and method of US intelligence collection was revealed here. Right. So this has a feeling of complete bullshit I mean. Yeah. If he here's the thing like you alluded to it, there's basically a playbook here where somebody does ignore the process and someone does reveal stuff. That they don't get access to the prophets, which is a way of I think an appropriate way of making clear to anybody works in the government that you can't just take all the secret knowledge of chain because of your position and go profit off of it. But the idea of like starting to throw people in prison or prosecutor literary agents, and let's face it. Why is this happening? This is happening because it was critical trump i. mean you know there's There's no reasonably the trump cares that much about some piece of of of US intelligence might have been discussed in this. In this book he was pissed off that it was critical at him, and so it sets a dangerous precedent of not approaching us through the lens of. Classification issues but but through the re the lines of revenge against political opponents like like everything that's happening the Justice Department and for DOJ to be doing this, that's different than like the White House to be fulminating. But that's you know that's the legal arm of the US. Government is supposed to be independent of politics moving into that space yet again. To. Come down hard on them. This is. Retaliation, it seems speaking of retaliation then politico reported that the US intelligence community believes that the Iranian government is considering an assassination attempt against the US ambassador to South Africa. So intelligence officials believe that this is like one of a range of options Iran has been considering as a retaliation for the assassination of Qasem Soleimani the former head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps could force who trump ordered killed by US drone strike back in January I think. This ambassador, a woman mark, she's not some top military or intelligence official. She's a high end handbag designer a mar-a-lago member who I guess has been friends with trump for like twenty years, and that's why he made her ambassador there have been reports that Iran wants to target the head of Centcom, although you know like taking out somebody who lives in Tampa. Yeah. Yeah. He travels a bit of a military infrastructure that it's GonNa be hard that target. You'll look the good news year is. Clearly, if we're reading about it, the US intelligence communities sniffed out this plot they can take additional steps to keep her safe like hopefully won't be a problem that said Ben we were told at the time that taking out Sola would deter future attacks on US interests but also last week the head of Central Command told NBC News that we have had more indirect fire attacks around and against our bases. The first half of this year than we did the first half of last year in other words General Frank Mackenzie said on the record that there are more attacks in the wake of the Soleimani assassination. This also comes as a US is cutting. Our force level in Iraq from a presence of fifty, two, hundred to three thousand by the end of September as part of this broader effort. Basically to announce that he is ending every single war were in before the election which look I can get behind as long as these guys come home. So you know kind of a wild little update there for the US ambassador to South Africa that'd be scary. Yeah. Comey's dubious that we're ending all these wars. We're having photo OPS OBAMA DO I think. First of all. We see that and look this report I'd like to see be corroborated. But I will say Iran has in the past acted in third countries your and so as Hezbollah you know they've been attacks in parts of Europe or parts I in in Thailand. So the idea that that Iran might seek to to commit some act of violence in third country is repeatable for so money is not that farfetched and frankly again you know they, we said at the time that the responses to the Soul Monte killing we're gonNA come in many different fronts and over many different timelines and we see here you know not only were those missiles fired into Iraq that ended up wounding one hundred Americans But you know you've seen further attacks in Iraq you've seen Iran accelerate its nuclear program obviously. And there's a continued possibility of some form of act of terrorism here. I would I noticed trump tweeting about this last night I mean it would also be nice if he would do something about the the Russian bounties on US service members in Afghanistan if. Concerned about. But it's something to watch and I think. Not knowing anything but the intelligence said. What may be the case is that Iran is exploring different options for how to respond, which is scary and in part of the cycle of escalation. That has been so concerning over the last couple years and and frankly you know I'd rather not have entered into that cycle of Esscalation to begin with. Yeah. Agreed a couple more quick thing. So Japan will soon have a new prime minister in August Shinzo Abe's resigned from the job after many years because of health reasons now, his longtime cabinet minister Yoshihiko Guy is poised to take over the New York. Times described him as the son of a farmer and a teacher who is a quote For. expressionless recitations of policy than charisma interesting because he comes from humble roots obey was I believe the grandson of a prime minister of a dynastic family. Ben I'm sure like the various intelligence communities and the State Department are all working overtime to learn everything. They can about this new guy Early reports suggest that there's likely to be a lot of continuity and continuation of obeys. So just flagging. This one put a pin in it. We'll see I guess yeah. No I would've how I interpret. This is you obeys dominated Japanese politics for the better part of a decade. His party dominant has dominated Japanese politics since then of over to this guy election except for for years. which overlap with the beginning of the Obama Administration and this guy is a transitional figure. I've met this guy he's kind of the party guy and he's older than I was in my senses. That they have a lot of challenges that got covert, they got an economic problem because of Covid they've got China and North Korea that they're dealing with and rather than have the fight over who the next generation leader is for that party. Let's go with the guy everybody knows the kind of technocrat who can manage things for a period of time and and then decide. Who the leader is. So I see this as just kind of as status quo ante as could have it's worth remembering because it doesn't get enough attention and were part of that too. How Important Japan For sure this is still one of the biggest economies in the world. This is our biggest. In terms of size ally in East Asia, this is a country that invested enormous amounts of money in the your actual system, enormous amounts of aid a any strategy that is smart about China's GonNa have to incorporate Japan. So this is an important country in bears watching. Yeah totally. So ben on on September, eleventh the trump campaign released a new digital ad calling on everyone who supported the troops. It featured a photo that had the silhouette of the several soldiers as fighter jets flew over them very dramatic because very patriotic. The Problem Ben the jets were russian-made MiG, twenty, nine's and one of the soldiers was carrying a russian-made Kalashnikov rifle. So politico, this little stock photo error and noted that the the twenty nine was developed to counter the. American made F fifteen and F sixteen and has been sold since two countries like North, Korea, Syria, and Iran so Ben, we got him campaign over. No coming back from this one. I mean who vets things I mean we been thing. So carefully, I, mean it's so easy to find good stock of US servicemen the US military I like their trolling us. We're GONNA. I. Mean. How do you? WHO's The guy? Who Gould? Planes and came up with Russian Migs I mean that makes me think of top gun by the way member he sees the mayor. Gives the bird. Bird you know. So. Come on guys just be better. You Know Jeff Better. So one last thing before we get to interview with Mike mcfaul, we are now had dealt with a week of Bob. Woodward. Related News, cycles is there anything foreign policy that really jumped out at you from the coverage? You know there was the the notable I saved his ass comment from trump about Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince of Saudi Arabia but anything else really get your goat well yeah. That did but the things went out of his way in his kind of autocrats tribute section of the book. Know to to praise aired Juan in very specific terms and talk about how well gets on with him. I. You know it's not a coincidence to me that the autocratic talks about the most right. With the exception of Kim Young Own, which is a great romance, of course. Our NBS aired one you know. Rich autocrats, corrupt autocrats, and and so the the willful choice of them he could have picked boss Naro could've picked you. Could have picked any number of these guys he seems to have a particular. Desire to praise the most corrupt people, and if there is an accountability process, if trump loses god willing and there's a look back effort here. I want to understand whether there are financial dealings happening whether there's corruption were not seeing because, yes, it it's jarring to see Impreza these people it's alarming to think think that he may be doing. So for for for financial reasons as well as political one. Yeah. The only other thing I noticed were too little jared Kushner bite. So Jared Kushner is quoted by Bob. Woodward is saying the most dangerous people around the President Are Overconfident Idiots somehow he is not talking himself. He's talking about a bunch of four star generals in Gary Cohn. Who whatever you think of ran Goldman Sachs some experience here. Kushner also. Was You know the lot of people didn't like Kushner and REX. Tillerson said he found Kushner's warm dealings with Israeli prime. Minister Bibi Netanyahu has nauseating to watch. It was stomach churning is the is the quote in there. So I thought that was a fitting quote to close on on this day where you have bb at the white. House. Getting a political. Win In giving back to to trump. Did you see that trump gave the key to the? White House like like mayors the door it's like you know when a team wins the World Series in the Americas and the key to the city like that when award is never existed before I mean to the degree to which they kind of sycophantic. Mutually BB and trump and jared is the go between his nauseating good good word for it. I can think of some other ones to the key to the white. House is so funny uses like way to take a thing that just signals like little like parochial small town mayor and just like slap it on the White House and think that's cool. I. I'm not sure that that plays the way he thinks it's lane. Yeah. There's a lot wrong with that but I'm not gonNA. Okay. When we come back, we'll have our conversation with former US ambassador to Russia Mike mcfaul. Positive the world is brought to you. By Sun Basket I bet a lot of you folks are thinking, how do I reduce unnecessary trips out how do I avoid going to a crowded grocery store if those are things that your mind and you still want great food check out sundance go perfect and delicious solution for now for the times we're living in and really for any other time because you just make really good food and it comes right. To Your door in that awesome. Without Kobe Sundance get delivers fresh healthy delicious meal straight to Your Door Sun Basket is delicious recipes for all kinds of dietary preferences including Paleo, Gluten Free Mediterranean vegetarian and much much more. They make it easy and convenient with everything pre portioned ready to prep and cook. You can enjoy dinner full of organic fresh produce and cleaned ingredients in as little as fifteen minutes. No matter how much experience you have or don't. have in the kitchen each week, Sun Basket, a wide range of meals to choose from. So you can try out mouth watering dishes such as Hoisin, steak, strip, lettuce cups with pickle dicon carrots, roasted salmon with Meco glazed, eggplant, black, being diablo with cabbage slot in. Guacamole. You can order from any meals across menu, skip a week when you need to or even double up on your favorite simple and easy no Gotcha. Sun Basket is great the food. Is fresh comes right to your door. It's easy to make. It's usually healthy should give it a shop. He's right now some basket offering thirty, five bucks off your order. When you go to sun basket dot com slash world and you enter the Promo code world at checkout again that sun basket dot com slash enter the world checkout for thirty five dollars off your order sun basket dot com slash world the Promo Code. World thirty five bucks off. Hey, I'm Akilah Hughes and I'm Gideon Resnick. Weird. The hosts of what a day crooked media's Daily News podcast. Look we understand keeping up with the flood of news. Every day is hard. They're updates on corona virus, Disney reopenings, animal news with what else so much else. But we're here to help you cut through all that we break down the biggest news stories each day and help you understand what's important and what you can do about it all in twenty minutes or less. Of. What come out every morning Monday through Friday at four am eastern on spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You don't have get a federally to listen go. Brought to you by Ziprecruiter, guys you know hiring can be very challenging for business owners especially with everything that's going on these days. got social distancing amass everybody. Got To put a mask on I can't hire someone to yeah. Now in California, we need just as many fire escapes as we can possibly find Monica starks, she could relate gene to hire for a pivotal role at our construction company GS group was having a tough time finding that right person especially with so many candidates out there. So she switched Ziprecruiter Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience for your job actively invites them to apply which is why you should try ziprecruiter for Free Ziprecruiter. Dot Com? Slash pod. That's how Monica found the Mon-. Jenkins she said that Ziprecruiter Lamont's profile tour around five minutes after she posted her job is he was a great match for the role through Ziprecruiter. Monica's companies hired everyone from accountants to project managers to feel scientists but Monica's not the employer who loves ziprecruiter four out of five employers opposed ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself has ziprecruiter makes hiring faster and easier try now for free that's right. Free Ziprecruiter DOT com slash podcast that's ziprecruiter dot com slash P. O. D. ziprecruiter dot com slash podcast. We are joined by the former US ambassador to Russia the director of the Freemen, smugly Institute for International Studies at. Stanford. In the author of the New York Times bestselling book from Cold War Too hot piece Mike mcfaul Mike is Great to see it great to see you guys again this is very fun. This is like the good old days in the in the bowels of the NFC before it was you know nonstop impeachment a things going on in there so. I'll just kick it off. So we got some good news, this morning Russian opposition leader, and anti corruption activist Alexei Navalny is reportedly awake alert and even posted a photo on Instagram despite being poisoned in late August by. A Russian nerve agent presumably, by some Russian actor, his photo caption said quote I was able to breathe on my own for the whole day I. Liked it very much. An amazing underestimated process by many recommended. So he hasn't lost his sense of humor despite all this happened to him. Like I know you have all well, you tell listeners a little bit about him and why do you think his enemies try to poison him again I should say I last month. Well first of all, that was a great instagram photo I saw two with all his family by the way role there including Stanford Student Dash of who decided. The in Berlin for the first week classes instead of here. So Aleksei. I, know about him for a long time I wanna make clear because I sometimes may choose and he is accused that we somehow collude to foment reduction in Russia a lot of your listeners will be surprised at is the US ambassador to Russia I never once met with Aleksei Novosel nate and a formal meetings. we only bumped into each other at some dinner and we shook hands for seven seconds and fifty cameras took our photo and you know he had a very principled position which I deeply respect, which is that I i. don't need your help ambassador This is this is my fight. This is our fight the request he had a request that another friend of mine had always made his name Welt was worse than soft. He was assassinated in two thousand, fifteen He always said, this is our fight just pleased on help our enemies don't aid the enemies because say you know for his entire career is basically been focused on exposing corruption by the regime in Russia right? So that's how he's made himself famous not talking about. Liberalism versus democracy, and and you know these kind of abstract concepts from the nineties that a lot of other political opposition leaders talk about and I id too and and we should the basically to expose them as stealing from Russians, and he's very savvy on various technological platforms. He has amazing resources and sources within the Russian government. I believe that help him exposes because I think that's important for people to remember not everybody even in the Russian government supports Ladner Putin? and. That's what makes them. So dangerous he's become extremely popular. especially with the younger. People inside Russia. His movement has moved out of the big cities. So he has his followers all over the small cities and medium sized cities across Russia, and in fact, when he was poisoned, he was out in Omsk Tomsk we. City he landed in the other one of the two out to see some of the people that were running in local elections that were affiliated with him and I would say he's the most organized principled. Political leader in Russia today. So you mentioned some of Nevada travels right before he was poisoned I believe he was travelling to campaign before some regional elections. So I was looking for those results. It seems like the opposition may have had some success in some of these elections. He's local elections with what was called a smart voting strategy where basically you know you encourage people to align behind a single candidate most likely to defeat the United Russia party Putin's party last month. We saw some anti. Putin. Protests in the Far East of Russia like when you look at those elections, those protests, what do you think the state of the opposition is in Russia these days how powerful or not are they? Well before I answer that question I, want to remind you and actually I'll tell it through an anecdote that I remember talking to a prison Obama about when we're in Russia. When he's going into meet Putin the two numbers drove Obama crazy dealing with Putin, was one how Richie? Wise in one how his? Approval ratings were right. But as you guys know better than I, Obama is a very competitive guy and he would look at that approval rating and he'd say come on man if I had all the television stations in my hand everybody in the US. Congress was loyal to me. Every rich Persson in America was loyal to me L. allow it at ninety percent, right? So always remember that when you look at those opinion polls and always remember that Russia's very you know surveillance surveilled probably one of the most surveilled places on the planet. So when Natasha bought stock gets a call from below Jan Moscow saying, Hey, I'm gonNA work with an opinion poll firm and I just want to know what your attitude towards Ladimir Putin. And knows who's listening to her phone one. Answer to that question right and academia. There's a lot of research on these falsified preferences into Taliban regime's so remember that context and yet within that context, you're absolutely right Tommy there were some really big breakthroughs first combat that you just mentioned where LDPR leader, one liberal democratic, party of Russia leader run, not not liberal or democratic, right? This is a nationalist party. But the Navales Smart Elections Strategy like you described decided to endorsed him he won the election Hooton in his autocratic ways decided on really like the sky remove him and ever since we've had they've had protests out there every single Sunday for months. Now I define laws in a very dangerous way to the ring. They can't control those demonstrations out there in a smaller way. What's been happening in a larger way in Belarus has been constantly happening over the last two months and then second these regional elections again, under all those conditions I just described. All the advantages to A- Putin's party United Russia. There were a few breakthrough cities where navales people want including one of the people that he was visiting on that plane ride before he while he was poisoned. So that suggests that all is not well that people don't support Putin. To the degree that the public opinion polls might suggest. So Mike you mentioned Belarus. And we've just seen these extraordinary protests be sustained despite. Pretty at times brutal and arbitrary tech tactics by the. Security forces lurking in the backdrop has been Russia obviously the neighbor Belarus. and. Lukashenko the you know the the dictator really of of Belarus recently met with Putin in Sochi, and there's been this kind of concern of what would rush do might they intervene? Might there even be something along the lines of Ukraine situation? The meeting was interesting to watch because the body language was very much Lukashenko the supplicant kind of meeting the man on the throne and Putin kind of looking disinterested like the Godfather taking notes and sweating. Exactly. But out of it, you know you saw some announcements Putin talked about a one point, five, billion dollar loan. There were these kind of vague comments made about the prospects for. Promoting integration processes within the Union State. So some potential. Blurring the lines between Russia and Belarus what do you think? The play is what do you think Lukashenko was asking Putin for what do you think Putin is willing to do to prop up Lukashenko and in the other direction. You know how much might these protests and Belarus help further galvanized? The Russian opposition how do you see the the interrelation between Russia and Belarus right now? Yeah, it's a great question I don't have any ways to predict the future we in political science a pretty bad at predicting revolutions. But I did spend five years in the government with you guys, and I would say the as pretty bad attitude just for. A couple of things. Let me start with the opposition and then talk about the autocrat. So first of all, for any, this is out there if you have not been paying attention to Belarus, just go Google Belarus Hashtag Belarus, and be inspired the incredible explosion of very peaceful elections. Every single weekend mostly almost exclusively led by women by the. Way. The, women are in charge here and getting beats I. Think five hundred people were arrested in Minsk yesterday eight hundred across the country, and yet they have been defying that regime and just remember that when you're thinking about voting by the way, you know these are people are getting beaten getting poison just to have the right that all. Of Us in America, have it. It's just shameful to me that some of my as my young people that I interact with your at Stanford or so you know I'm not sure I can get enough time to vote in this election when I know these other people that are literally risking their lives to have the right to vote the other thing. I want to say before I get to the cracks is you know in my world and I think in in in policy worlds there tends to be some stereotypes about people and nations and Histories and cultures most certainly there's a there's a hypothesis out there that you know the Russians they love a strong hand Putin is exactly what the Russians want. And the Belorussian suffer even more from this right there's this notion that they're passive and they they've never risen op for twenty four years against Lukashenko, and there's all this kind of a cultural determinism and whatever happens I think it's important to note that all that cultural determinism is undermined by these protests right and the history I think is on the side of those fighting for democracy. We don't know when that comes that. The notion that these regimes are GonNa last for twenty or thirty years. I'm very skeptical about now having said that had in moments like this what I've written about it academically, it always matters I call it the. Guys with the guns a what are the people with guns doing and so far there have not been splits in Belarus with the they're called the civic key Russian The hardliners said, the militar military folks are the intelligence folks but they also you know it's you can. You can arrest everybody if there's only fifty eight people on the square, you can arrest people if there's five hundred, you can't when there's one hundred, thousand right and so they're gonNA stalemate right now that they do not have enough physical force to suppress everybody and you know Lukashenko scenes very desperate today he seems that's why he went in this very you know I that the body language says everything and and we've both seen how Putin loves the man spread. He used to do that with Obama too by the way he sits that way on purpose. Abbott Lukashenko was basically going to beg even call them. I think are big brother I think he used that phrase in Russian I don't know how it's translated in English and but Putin didn't didn't jump at it was like, yeah. Yeah we're GONNA help you. We're going to get a billion and a half. Work this out. So I think Lukashenko got. The strong signal that he was hoping for, and that suggested that there's GonNa be a pretty prolonged stalemate here one of the theories kicking around I was just on a call yesterday with a bunch of folks in Belarus. Biggest worry you know is is winter and the snow and one happens to mobilization in that period and I would not be surprised if this this kind of goes on for a long time without a solution until the snow is the thing that comes Lukashenko's i. Know in your right to again, we've been encouraging listeners just check out what's going on how courageous people in Bellary Star and Navan knee announcing. He's going to go back to Russia right after he was poisoned guys got more guts than I do certainly. One follow up question though is you know we're watching this trump has been silent on it. You know in fact, when news aspen evolving, he pivoted off of it, Bellarusse leaving the statements and the actions to kind of the embassy and I guess the question I wanted to ask 'cause we could ask you the same question that we get asked all the time. What is Trump, I wanna ask you that been. No yesterday offered his opinion that trump is kind of a useful idiot for the Russians. But I mean what I wanted to ask you is what difference could US president make and perhaps they'll be a new US President I. Hope we after the election. What is our role here? This about two people Belarus the People Russia but what is trump? What is he not doing that? He should be doing and and what differences that make if we had a different president, what would you be advising them to do about these protests in Belarus in particular were or about the Russian opposition? Well, first of all, just underscore its we've never had a president like trump I want to make sure people understand that Democrats Republicans at least going back to World War Two through our history through Obama. There's been variations does to what people emphasize but the United States of America has always been on the side of democracy and human rights and rule of law I was just actually cleaning up my photos for a piece I'm writing today Ben. And I stumbled across a photo. With President Obama in July, two, thousand, nine meeting with Russian opposition. Leaders including one with worse than soft and I sent it to Gina. Just say you know and was in touch with her this morning is daughter because President Obama always met with human rights leaders and and always engaged with them. A my last event as a US government official with Barack Obama was the drive you were there yet now's area from the G. Twenty Summit We are driving Air Force One and we stopped at some Holiday Inn brock. Obama President Obama was the only g twenty leader that did that in Russia during that time, and he stopped to meet with human rights activists mostly lgbt activists if you remember in Russia in Saint Petersburg and. That's a tradition that the trump doesn't do i. don't think he's ever met with a democracy activists from around the world. He never uses the word democracy human rights, our rule of law, and he's you know as he said to Woodward but he said it on the record many many times. He brags about like he's the I'm the guy that gets you know like interacts with the autocrats right and the. Kind of weirs that as a badge of courage or a something he's proud of and just realize what that does is that undermines people in these countries because they are more a vulnerable and they think that they're not protected and there's no correlation is not causation by There's reason to believe that if you're carrying about democracy and human rights, maybe Navali doesn't get it maybe Kashogi doesn't get killed. Because, you have a relationship with the White House and you have to think about that if they care about those things that's the first thing. The second thing is you know we used to be the leader of the free world and we used to be the country that would coordinate a transatlantic or global response to these kinds of things now were absent and so you know now it's on commercial. I that leads that but we would be stronger if we were all united on a number three I, there are a couple of times creek things you can do number one, you can interrupt. US companies that did business with the Belorussian dictatorship We now know there's a couple of them that have sold survey at surveillance equipment and. various ways to control the Internet to look. SHANECO. So this goes back. With Navales deciding what himself to east is I don't out bus just don't help our enemies. And enforce sanctions and and I. Think. What you know that the specter of sanctions is important and people that abuse the human rights of others. Don't have the right to go to Disneyland I and I should should be sanction a but I think it's the bigger moral thing I really do I think that's the most important thing what about Mike revealing their corruption and after. that. Without question you know this wouldn't of all he does. So effectively I, this is what we need to do as a country. You know there's lot. There's new legislation on this Our friend Jake Sullivan is you know he's written about. And I hope if there is a new president and and there's a new Biden administration that we will radically reform the ability of all kinds of creepy crawlers around the world to a you know a part their money here. So they steal their money from their citizens and then they park it. Here in Palo Alto in houses and companies Delaware in companies that we don't know that's just got an yeah. Again folks want it like a primer on US Russia relations bikes book from Cold War to hot piece is just a fantastic place to turn to its lots of great stories from the Obama years lots about the frosty maybe relationship between Obama, and Putin. Mike, let's all hope for one second. Right Biden wins. What do you think needs to change in terms of our approach to Russia? I mean there's the obvious sort of obsequiousness in in weird refusal by trump to ever blame Putin for anything whether it's you know the poisoning of Navan Ni or pick your million sort of bizarre times he has defended Putin. But like what what do you want to see from the Biden administration because I went in like many other presidents had talking about resetting relations with the Russians that changed when there was a transition of power from ETA to Putin. Like Putin seems like he's going to be around for an awfully long time. Tommy tragically I think we gotta go back to some of the lessons of the Cold War and I would say exactly the same thing with China right now, which is to contain where we must. Engage where weekend and when we do engagement, we engage the government, but we also engage societies. That's that's the you know in a nutshell that's the strategy, right? So I'm really worried that we haven't done enough. To strengthen NATO in Europe for instance I'm worried about what's happening in Ukraine You know the best way and Ben this gets back to a point I wanted to make about your observation in Belarus Another thing that said Democratic activists in Russia always tell me. There's not much you can do for us by the best way to scare Putin and to inspire Russians is to help Crane Democrats and now to help Belorussia Democrats because that undermines the myth that Putin says that we need are you know because we're Slavic? Need a strong autocratic can and the trump administration is You know instead of trying to help consolidate democracy in Ukraine tried to monetize and help his election campaigns throughs relationship with presence Alinsky. I'm really worried about what's happening in Ukraine and I hope that President Biden and his administration would re engage there and get serious about trying to consolidate a democracy there, and then third sanctions You know there's a lot of sanctions fatigue in Europe right now and I hope that President Biden I'm yacht traveled in Europe with. The president vice-president Biden. Russia Moldova Georgia Ukraine, we went to some pretty interesting places when I was the garment with them he asked of a stellar reputation in Europe and he has a really stellar reputation in eastern Europe. thirty thousand people came to his dock in Moldova. Was Pretty. It was pretty exciting. I think it's pretty exciting for him to right away I'd have that many people cheering him and and I hope that he will translate that reputation to help unify the you know that transatlantic relationships but the democratic world, right so that we do not just begin to relax sanctions because of you know Hungary or Italy or or. Fatigue that we only relax sanctions when Russia changes its position and I actually believe that when you're in a stronger position and you're more united, that gives you more ability to actually negotiate on things that might be in America's national interest. So at the same time we're containing Russia also should engage with the Russian government, for instance, stood to extend the new start treaty. That would that's. That is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned and know I. You know I worked at you guys in the Obama Administration. I think only voted for one Republican in my life because he's a friend of mine and I knew he was gonNA lose. So I could always face the rest of my life decide voted for you. but I think actually the early Reagan Years and guiding George Shultz who secretary of state. As explained it best in his memoirs by the way Reagan and their administration did lots of things wrong. I WanNa be clear about that. If we were talking about South, Africa for instance on the wrong side of history with respect to the Soviets she'll have this idea we're gonNA to engage with them. When it's in our mutual interests, we're going to contain them when they are being belligerent. And we and wiling gauging. However, we're not gonNA check our values at the door. And I think those are good lessons for how we deal with Russia and China by the way a moving forward. Very good lessons and we know Vice President Biden is an avid listener. So hopefully, he's jotting this down. Maybe. He brings you back into government Mike McCall. Thank you so much for doing the show. I think speak for Ben and I. We miss working with you. It was one of the most parts of the job was was sitting in your office and talking for hours about stuff like this. So good. Yeah me too me too bad I. Miss Those days. But great to see here today and thanks for having me I. Really appreciate it. Thanks again to Mike Golic for joining us today. Then fly safe tomorrow. Coming up the fire tomorrow. All right. We'll bring a gas mask and maybe an air purifier from New York. If you can find when there because they're all out over here, I'll ask Matt Gaetz. Ex got a gas mask but the human fat paddle, but my wife and. Me Slight just to best person you'd want any survival situation. So now located near. So. Amazing. Amazing. We have one trying I. Guess I'll just. Never lead bass again. Sounds good. All right guys talk to you week. Posse the world is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller pontiff. The world is mixing edited by Chris Basil Cal. Seguin. Is Our sound engineer. Thanks for amazing digital team allies, Yukon Normal Coney and Milo Kim film and sheriff is videos every week.

US trump Iran Bahrain Donald Trump Israel Trump Joe Biden Europe Ben Rhodes White House Middle East Taliban Mike mcfaul NBS Russia Obama China Tommy Detour