7 Episode results for "Muskrat Falls"
Will Newfoundland turn on Trudeau this time?
"If Canada's government is going to change hands on October twenty first we will get the first sign of it on election night in Newfoundland Finland and Labrador yes part of that is because the polls out east close earlier than anywhere else in the country but it's not the only reason this province as as a whole is often pretty red and stop me if you've heard this before in two thousand fifteen it was completely red trudeau and the liberals currently own all seven seats and as much as Newfoundlanders may be disappointed by some of the things that liberals have ever more accurately haven't done in their province. A repeat of the last selection is not out of the question. So what can the other party say to flip a few of those seats and send a sign things are changing what have liberals failed to deliver deliver that their opponents can capitalize on what do newfoundlanders need they aren't getting and which riding in this province is the most likely to be a harbinger Brynjar of what's to come on election night Jordan Keith Rawlings and this is the big story. David Vidmar is the legislative reporter for the Saint John's telegram in Newfoundland where we head for our latest in our lay of the land series the Saint John's telegram is part of the Salt Wire Fire Network Hi David. How's it going. It is going very well. Thank you for joining us from the East Coast. How is the grand experiment of democracy going out there. Well things are I mean changes changes. The norm. I think is a is a quite frequently in Newfoundland Labrador typically. We just came out of a provincial election which is back on back on. May Sixteenth where there was this massive liberal majority where they had thirty one seats in the provincial legislature and that has cut down to twenty which gives them a one seat edge over the you know over the opposition parties and whatnot so that was a that was a big moment obviously for us out here to see that amount of seats being cut down in Atlantic Canada. Generally I mean there's been there's been I it's only Nova Oh Scotia that hasn't gone to gone to the polls fairly recently they went back in two thousand sixteen you know but but we're seeing the Greens obviously making some eat some interesting in roads and whatnot in an and in an MP and New Brunswick they didn't quite formed government but my God did they come close so you know being close to the water being close to you know relying so much a natural resources. I think is is starting to rear. Its head just a little bit here on the East Coast. What are the chances that you're provincial election earlier. This year is a microcosm of what will happen to the federal liberals in Newfoundland and Labrador which were a complete sweep last time yeah and that's always the question you know. How much can we really read it into provincial politics to federal politics. you know it's it's. It's it's not a one to one ratio. There's we'll see how that plays out but I I wrote a story. Worry about this. about you know we can have of course online that talking to pollster. Don Mills Search Area Whatnot and the way that he phrased in terms of whether or not the liberals can sweep across Atlantic on to Canada with all thirty two seats He said that there's zero percent chance that happened on October hangover twenty so couldn't really be more more definitive than that a you know there and in Newfoundland Labrador everyone is kind of pointing at Saint John's east as as really Kinda main battleground. Perhaps even the only battleground. I think the Liberals will still see some success here in Oakland lambreau because we I have never in our history sent sent no liberals. There's has always been at least one liberal. That's insane from Labrador to up to Ottawa but we've sent all seven easier as liberals at twice in our history so there might I don't to be one opportunity Lucy. you know an interesting thing about about. Saint John's is that it's a direct rematch from two thousand sixteen election Harris Yeah Yeah Yeah. It's it's a one to one Nick Whale on it is the incumbent and in two thousand fifteen he beat Jack Harris who was a he was first elected in nineteen eighty seven that he lost real quick in the in the election after that and then he was years for the as the DP leader in the province and became the d. n. p. once again. I believe in two thousand eight hundred I elected and and now they're just having another crack at it. You know in John's east. I remember Canada conventional wisdom at the time which I guess didn't turn out to be completely wise was saying that Saint John's was was the most safe seat in the country for the new Democrats on the federal scale and then you so yeah yeah there was another really tight race so at the time in two thousand fifteen Ryan cleary was was was the incumbent for the MVP going up against the shameless regan whose name we all know much more on the federal a federal thing these days so any kind of went all in on Ryan cleary and maybe kind of forgot about it was just a little bit but this around it does not look like they are forgetting about checkers. You know Jagmeet facing was here before the election was even called so they really seem to be kind of investing there so you know in this province if any district is going to not be liberal liberal by the time October twenty first. It's probably John's east but you know nick. Whale is not going to go down without a fight no question about that so what makes Newfoundland and Labrador because we're doing this with all of the provinces what makes Newfoundland Labrador different from the other Atlantic provinces first of all but from from voters and the rest of the country to the biggest thing for us is that most of the people who live in Newfoundland Labrador live on the island of Newfoundland and most of us who live in Newfoundland live on kind of the northeast avalon which which is you know I'm I'm speaking to you from Saint John's right now which is really about as like it. If you're going to look at what the geography tells you it's as though everyone in on the island roofing like gathered as far away from mainland Canada as humanly possible which is essential for something but yeah which you know we'll we'll get back to that one but the fact that we are such big island really doesn't make us unique. I guess be is obviously an island is in the it's in the name but we you know we really are massive expensive land with a with a with a relatively small population by five hundred twenty five thousand people according in the two thousand sixteen sentences counter counted here and one particular thing that makes us unique across the country is that that population is going down the demographics of Newfoundland Labrador. We are getting older faster than anybody else. I believe that the the average population or the average age of newfoundlander right now is like forty six years old and by twenty forty. That's GonNa that's GONNA go up to above above fifty yeah. It's you know so we're getting older and the fertility rate is is is downward. We're dying faster than we are being born for one thing and then on top of that to oil downturn turn in say twenty two thousand fourteen twenty fifty and really really hit this province hard we in the last provincial budgets and twenty eighteen. We made a billion dollars off oil and gas. Ask and you know that's that's all guests are inter. Inter the royalties one for the government you know and that's on a pretty average price of oil. You Know Beckon Twenty before early two thousand twelve twenty fourteen or something like that. was you know we're looking at over one hundred dollars for a barrel also so my God we had money and now we don't so we have people people who are literally dying and not being replaced and people are leaving so the demographic challenges for Newfoundland Labrador really what's it's top of mind. I think that at this point. How does that impact what voters want from their government. What are they looking for right. Now that other younger younger more prosperous provinces might not well. This is a maybe a little bit of Jason here but but but but the main thing that we're looking for I think right now is is support from the federal government when it comes to Muskrat falls because that's the other thing that makes particularly unique in the country you know we talk about large hydroelectric dams you. I heard a sightsee and whatnot but but Muskrat falls was started by the provincial government or sanctioned in two thousand ten and at the time that the the sanction to the to the population or the the number that was put out there for the cost was six point two billion dollars. Not You know not a small chunk of change at the time for a prophet to five hundred thousand people now. It's twelve point seven billion dollars and there's a real risk that electricity bills in this province are going to double as a result of this and you you know the provincial government people were trying to work in trying to figure out how to how to prevent that from happening and one of the direct ask that. I think it was a little while ago. The finance minister just made a direct call just before the election actually the finance minister. Tom Osborne made a direct call to all party. Leaders saying we need money. We need about two hundred million dollars a year from the federal government a direct federal subsidy to Newfoundland Labrador's power bills in addition to about another half billion dollars annually that the that the province is going to have to come up with on its own court to try to to try to keep electricity rates down but but you know we need a commitment of two hundred million dollars from the federal government and so far none another federal leaders have kind of explicitly committed to that outside of saying you know we commit to working with Newfoundland Labrador on this particular issue so that I think think is kind of the biggest barrel on that. We're staring down so to speak right now that we need the federal government to help out on what about the things that the liberals promised would would help Newfoundland and Labrador back in two thousand fifteen you mentioned that may be only one of the seven seats there is really endanger of flipping to Newfoundlanders feel that that they've delivered in any sense on on what you were hoping for well they have and they haven't the funny thing about covering federal elections in duplan. Labrador is that you know we're sure we've only been in Canada for seventy years more so you know we we only have seven seats. We only have half million people so you know oh comfortable election time. We don't tend to hear a lot of really kind of detailed promises that are specific to Newfoundland and Labrador here one of the things that the liberals did come through on was there was a search and rescue center here in St John's that was closed down under the Harper government and shortly after the liberals gained end they went ahead and reopened opened that one so you know with the province as large an enormous has nine laboratories and Lord knows how cold North Atlantic is out there that was a search and rescue is a big deal here because we still have a lot of people on the water that was a commitment that they did follow through on and went there but one thing that they did not follow through on. That's playing out at this moment. Moment is is hesitant with municipal wastewater. There's a river head wastewater facility. I won't get to down in the weeds on this one but basically just you know in two thousand twelve there were some rules are brought in to say that you need to bring wastewater standards up to a certain amount and that means. There's going to be upgrade so just joking down here in two thousand fifteen and said hey look at that thing. We're going to give you two hundred billion dollars. That number just keeps popping up with something about two hundred million dollars really really popular but he committed that money that I was gonna come here and and when he was here about two weeks ago he committed that money again because it's not done and it's not just John but here's this concerns with the municipal wastewater one of there's places all across the province so we're facing the same same issue of raw sewage just being dumped into lakes. It happens here here in in in a number of municipalities because the municipalities don't have the the money themselves to do these expensive upgrades and the federal government hasn't put in hasn't put in their share at this point quite frankly so so you know in terms of what promises haven't have happened to and we're still going to wait and see what happens with with yet another province on wastewater that we got from trudeau ago so it's there's a there's a lot of reasons that I think that the federal elections take a little bit of a backseat here a Newfoundland Labrador because we're it quite frankly not as engaged in its by the you know by the way the parties who are running their largely due to how how far away we we are how small we are so we don't really get a lot of attention is what it comes down to well that was going to be my next question. Anyway is a lot of this election so far has been defined by scandal candle. I buy a SNC level and obviously men by the Liberals Bernird some opposition research about multiple conservative candidates and then of course course Trudeau's Brown face and black face scandal and from where we sit in Toronto it can feel that that dominates so I'm always interested in in more remote I would provinces that have more specific needs if that's a deciding issue for people or are we kind of an immediate bubble. I mean I think it matters to people you know. We're we're. We're seeing some of the national polls one at that. Don't seem to so much of a tick here and there for Trudeau. He's seen a dip. It was on the national scale. It's been written about and talked about plenty here in Newfoundland and Labrador but but the thing about Newfoundland Labrador and Atlantic Canada in general is that we we are really really white like I think it's ninety. The most diverse province I take from the twenty. Eleven cents is so we recognize. This isn't the most up to date number but according to the to the twenty eleven cents is the most diverse province in Atlantic Canada was Nova Scotia at at ninety. One percent white white or Caucasian candidate is is is you know we're we're primarily there there so a lot of people that I spoke to locally are suggesting that Oh asking why is this a big deal there and it's it's because we don't have a lot of people living in this part of the world that have you know an experience with black face racism of an understanding why that is such a such a problem you know and as such a racist action there so in that particular scandal in terms of in terms of how it matters you know. It's definitely going to take you know take votes while I mean I don't know and how can you really say anything definitively but but but I mean I can't imagine that it's not going to move the needle. But how much is it going to move the needle you know for people who maybe aren't super duper engaged in federal politics to begin with who don't have a symbol oh of lived experience to the people who who might have been directly affected and offended by this and then to some of the people who I've spoken to from you know from from progressive organizations and whatnot here in the province. They're saying forget about that. Let's talk about you know about a transportation institution into infrastructure. You know about about jobs. Those are the things that are going to matter to round newcomers one out of here so obviously it's complicated. Obviously there's a whole lot to it but it is jack error is going to win. Saint John's because Justin Trudeau mates really really really really really bad decisions back in the day probably probably not but you know but but jobs elsewhere well what could have him winning Saint John's east. If there was I mean you've mentioned money for for wastewater but if there were other issues that conservatives offenders share is coming to newfoundland before the election and he's promising missing things that would actually move the needle for Newfoundlanders. What's he saying. It should be something about Muskrat falls. You know once again about about federal support worked there. You know it. It's it's a provincial lead project but it was but there was a two point nine billion dollars in loan guarantees that were guaranteed by the federal government so the federal government has their finger in that you know has has a role to play their you know if if he were to come down and say do not worry about your electricity rates we got us and that's not even specific the sheer. That's that's. That's where everybody any party leader. If they're gonNA save you know don't worry we will bail you out. Hey money helps. Always you know yeah yeah. Sometimes you gotta see the Federal Government opened up the box dreams or over the strings. I need to say and we haven't seen it. You know we I ask them directly. Ah You know about it so that's the big issue because as it stands right now if people's electricity rates do double than people are literally in Newfoundland and Labrador Obrador in Canada in two thousand nineteen you're going to have people who are going to be choosing between heat and food you mentioned off the top one talking about Atlanta candidate in general that you you know the green parties made huge inroads in Pi and Atlantic Canada in general and I just wonder are they a presence in Newfoundland and I know the MVP has previously been a presence in Newfoundland Finland but all around the rest of the country were increasingly talking about a two party race and is there any chance of a third party playing spoiler in Newfoundland will the Green Party the funny thing about the Green Party not here I believe they do have a seven candidates or if not they have you know five or six. I'm not sure off the top of my head here but the Green Party is kind of nonstarter in Newfoundland Labrador in terms of their interests of their popularity because they have they haven't expressed anti-seizure hunt stance in their products out that they oppose the seal hunt and obviously the seal hunters is he's controversial here and there but in this province we supported in this province province is it's hunters or going out on the ice and taking what's there naturally you know and maybe with well primarily with guns the image that you see see their on screen white coats that are super super cute and cuddly those ones aren't the targets of the seal hunt and has been a lot of frustration over the people. You know who who are or are not recognizing you know at so anyway hill a little bit of a tangent there but but context. I didn't know that yeah that is the the that is the the number one roadblock for the Green Party and and I did actually talk with me about this. you know and and the basic stance is that well here's the funny thing about about kind of the Green Party policy there it seems as though the Green Party policy to say that the leader will not dictate and what issues the integrion. MP's would end up on and we saw the kind of Biton bite them in the rear. You know when it comes to comes to talk about separatism and when it comes oh you know maybe even reopening it would abortion debate. You Know Elizabeth May's kind of kind of stance there was was they can do what they want. You know I'm not gonNA stop them from opening up these this conversations and and and that policy which you know burn them here and there in the media there is also their defense mechanism against a about their dicillo hunt pitch because Elizabeth would just say while you know a a newfoundland and Labrador Greenpeace would have every single right to support the Green Party. Maybe even if the Federal Green Party opposes the seal hunt and wants to shut down so you know they have a they have a well known candidates in Avalon. His name is Greg Malone from Costco and wonderful grand band Jane and he's. He's run a couple times. You Run for city council he's. He's never had success on on the on the political scale. Oh and fun fact. We talked about black face. He also wore black face as part of what part of a sketch that he did. I think it was I think it was twenty eight days when when when it hits media here with all respect to the Greens and you know and and I know that the Green Party supporters you know here in the province but in terms of them playing spoiler in Saint John's. These are really any other part of the province. I'M NOT GONNA hold my breath personally so if Canadians are watching the early returns because you guys are I on election night. They should just be looking at saint. John's east to get a a sense of whether or not true is in for a good night or a bad one. Yeah you know that's where it will literally start because I think that would depending on how quickly the count that might Steve I decided writings is Saint John's but but yeah nick whale and holes on there. That's a good indication that that they're gonNA do okay here. you know if if these does change hands. I wouldn't necessarily read that as kind of overall condemnation of you know of how they're gonNA do but if a second writing in this province where to switch switch to the role that would earn your way from liberal to say that would be pretty jaw dropping that hotel a lot if I if they manage lose more than one sees a here in Newfoundland Labrador that's wouldn't I think that they're going to be shaking in their boots up in Ottawa. Thanks for this David. Thank you so much for having me David Marr legislative reporter at the Saint John's telegram and that was the big story another episode our our lay of the land series if you'd like you can head to our website the big story podcast dot. CA and right up there in the header Mary section where you can get all of these special episodes Komo before the elections. You know what happens if you'd like to talk to us about what's going to happen where or tell us who we should interview for these things up at the big story. SPN We want the best journalists from around the country and we might not know all of them you can also find us everywhere you get podcast on apple and Google institure on spotify. Please go in ahead of those five stars. Thanks for listening. I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings. We'll talk more.
Harper's Favourite Show and the Simpsons' Trip to Canada
"Always. Welcome to say space, a weekly podcast about the news politics. Pop culture and anything else that comes up. I'm Vicky trauma. And I'm your host guiding you through thrilling political climate here at space. We are creating a safe space for bad takes to do that every week. We are joined by a couple of friends who help us make sense of the world this week. We're going to talk about one Simpson's episode that has a whole province talking the episode titled DOE Canada was released on Sunday by the Simpsons. And since then criticism from Newfoundlanders has abounded to talk about this. We are joined by drew Brown editor for the independent and Holly McKenzie center, a Canadian Press reporter in Saint John's, drew and Holly welcome to say space. I think perhaps it's great to be here. On sunday. The Simpsons released an episode that had some Canadians Schick the show is on its thirtieth season. And for the twenty first episode. They took some shots at Canada and upstate New York. The episode featured digs about Justin Trudeau and essence he level in this auto, a senators and finally a dig at Newfoundlanders and the seal hunt. Let's start with is because got people in Canada pretty riled up. But Newfoundlanders specifically drew what happened in this episode? Right. So the main substance of offense was sort of the bit in the the show at the end, I think where they're like sitting outside talking about how Canadians actually do sometimes mistreat people of different tights. I guess and well if the punchline is, you know, like, the, yeah, the cave qua- in the new fees, and then all the kids say like stupid new fees. And then you've got this. Ralph Wickham kid like I'm a new fee, and then he beats shit out of a baby the'll, and does this, and they do this really like extended bit where he like like waves it around and massacres it and like, where's the decapitated has the hat and things this like really prefers tourism ad type song. It's yeah. It's a it's a lie. Albi the episode is have been of a lot like even just watching it like if you're from buffalo, you should feel pretty aggrieved by the episode. It has a little bit of like, Ed Lord, humor quality. But the jokes that they make about Newfoundland's Pacific Lee seems to have struck a chord hall you've done reporting on this. Because when Anthony board Dane came into episode of Newfoundland and tweeted about it, the use of the word, also, you know, caused some people to get upset can you tell us about that reaction because I just don't think, you know, as Gary I don't think I get the upset. Yes. Sure. So last year with the four Dane episode. I think could have been interpreted as kind of a more well intention use of the word new fee because. Yeah. Basically, the board gain parts on no account shared an article that was like promoting the episode and using I think this sentence was embraced the new fees as they are. And obviously people responded pretty negatively to that. And I think it was largely because people really expected that to be really positive. Kind of changing some of the stigma representation of what new culture is like and what does the word? Yes. Kind of widely considered to have evolved from being coined by soldiers in World War Two that were stationed with new finance soldiers. And it was definitely used as a put down basically to call them stupid. And you know, especially commenting on the fact that was largely a rural population. So it's definitely been used as a put down in the past among especially the younger generation like some people do use it kind of as an insider thing amongst their friends. You know, you can call your neighbor your buddy, a new, and it's kind of from a local perspective. It's kind of something that Newfoundlanders in over durins concede to each other but often seen with a negative connotation when used by outsiders. So I think the Simpsons episode really caught a lot of people off guard, partly because it used the word so many times and sees the word stupid as well. Which wasn't really there. In the case of the parts on known Twitter, gaffe, I guess. I think that combined with kind of just how long the bit was and the the kind of the way the seal hunt represented, which is also kind of think been really stigmatize aspect of the culture here in. It's not really understood by the rest of Canada, and especially like American media with celebrities coming to protest it all the time. Yeah. People were caught off guard by how dislike blatant in kind of old. A lot of the stereotype sore him. It was really malicious is what stood out to me like more. Like, I mean, there's sort of like the like, the the Anthony Verde thing like that was that could be charitably attributed myths understanding the, but like this Simpson's or even like when south park to the new joke a couple years ago in their Canadian episode or whatever about hell like they thought of me a Newfoundland and that was a great offense, like whatever. But like this. This was like actively malicious. This was like no fuck you do Finland straight up. Some people also said, you know, why take it seriously because they. Did poke fun at as you say like buffalo, and even like saying, oh, we discriminate against c-a-b-a plot to, but you know, they use the word more than three times in the bit. Which definitely to me. See Mike was trying to provoke reaction from people knowing it's like a wink to knowing. It's a bad word not really supposed to say. Is there a sense that like when it comes to New Zealanders? There's that's an available joke that you can just make without really having any context. I feel like that's kind of the issue. I was I tweeted about it. But I was watching an episode of Murdoch mysteries. And they were really careful Murdoch. Mrs isn't necessarily a comedy. But they were really careful about the kinds of jokes that they did make even if they were you know, there was one joke about like you guys can arrest people here. But because it's nineteen twenties. You guys are technically Canadians, and that's a foreign country, which is like a lovely little kind of inside joke to make about Canadian history. But detained to feel that when it comes to Finland those jokes are just made without a lot of thought. I don't know. I think the seal hunt thing in particular, if we're thinking about an American audience and knowing that like the co creator of the Simpsons did come to Newfoundland to like offer money shutdown. Seal hunt yet thinking about a US audience in largely US writers team. You could make the argument that making these kind of jokes is probably something that's gonna stick with people, though, you know, some people I talked to when reporting the story were saying, you know, given that new, you know, come from ways, the most popular one of the most popular musicals in the world right now in kind of the image of what new Flanders actually like to the outside world is kind of changing. So it was kind of caught people off guard. But it was such a weird in like almost like violent derogatory joke that doesn't fit with like how it's the places perceived to the rest of candidate right now, you have coming here to offer a million dollars to buy out feelers or whatever. Like, I think I think that definitely. That's like that's what for me makes it sort of like, that's where the mouse comes from like, I think he is because he was basically told to like get out you moron. Like, you're not gonna buy off an industry with a million dollars. Like, you know, like you're not going to go to the terrorists. And it'd be like, here's forty five bucks. You guys wrap this up? So like, so I think yes, I think the writers like definitely like he's still very bitter about that. And probably always will be clear. Same simon. I'm pretty sure he's he's dead. He passed away in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen fifteen. You know, his spirit Levana and this extremely brutal joke. But I wanna talk about drew something that you tweeted in the midst of people being upset about the joke. You said the only new joke that offends me is this provincial election exclamation, Mark. Exclamation exclamation. Mark, folks. Cute tell our listeners, you might not know that aside from the Simpsons making a joke about Newfoundland that there's actually an election happening in Newfoundland. Yes. There is an election happening here. There was supposed to be an election twenty nine hundred anyway this election year because of our fixed election date law there were rumors going around for like a few months starting late twentieth. That there might be at spring election. And then they could have persisted. And then people kept acting the government is going to be a spring election. And they're like, we don't know the and then one day the pretty MIR's like, yeah, we'll do it before school gets of the end of June. So everyone's like, okay. So definitely spring election could be anytime the next three months and then in the beginning of April. They started making all these like really lavish extravagant bombastic announcements like the Atlantic accord renegotiation, which is like a thirty seven year deal to give us two point five billion dollars. Which is sure that's great. And then like all sorts of new money for infrastructure beginning at a new prison. They're going to build a new mental hospital on a flood plain. It's going to be wild. There's going to be a rate mitigation plan flow, muskrat falls won't destroy everyone's Bank account and force everyone to leave. It's. Yeah. And then so then they so then they dropped this budget fig bump ethic budget that was basically informed by McKinsey and company consulting report. And then the next day, they just like, we're also doing election. So the budget died and turned into the platform. And now here we are like two weeks into election that has barely started. It seems like that ends in another week. So that's pretty quick time line, which is you know, a couple of weeks of announcements a couple of weeks of announcing big money. But what are the major issues that this election will be decided on Holly? Can you tell us a bit of some of the issues your seeing one of the biggest issues that's on the voters minds is as you already mentioned paying off the Mosca falls project and kind of dislike anxieties that people have about. This and for listeners don't know what it is. It's kind of this massive hydro-electric project that was built in labrador, or it's I guess almost completed but has come under a lot of controversy for being way over budget too expensive questions about how well indigenous groups were consulted, and as well as now the just providing too much power for the province to use unclear how they're going to be able to sell it. So the one guaranteed stream of revenue for that. In this funding. They figured out was the rate payer like the rates from the residence. So as it stands right now like rates could get really really expensive as like a pretty cold place. People are genuinely worried about how they're gonna keep living here when this project is finishing comes online. And a lot of what politicians have been talking about over the last year's kind of. It's it's like a cloud kind of hanging over every other issue in the province, but you know, like health spending the aging population, which people expect will put. More pressure on healthcare costs that are already really high. And I'm just saying you have how to manage dead and how to get out of the financial situation of the provinces in because. Yeah, this kind of the issue people are worried that young people are gonna move away not wanna stay here because the economy's really bad and for the most part there's a lot of between. I would say the liberal premier that. We haven't power right now in the conservative government is the kind of the closest rivals in polls. A lot of kind of the the premier saying will we've already started all this good work. So just trust us keep going because that government made this bad decision for you, which is to build this project. Conservatives are saying while he had his chances not good enough. This a lot of like back and forth finger than the other parties kind of disliked trying to they don't really have full slates of candidates. So it's kind of considered to be too hardy race. But yeah, I think people are kind of frustrated because. Neither end. None of the leaders are really like the most charismatic or popular people at the moment. I would say so yeah, I think issue that people are talking about now is just kind of like how the voters really excited about their auctions. A lot of ways it's basically like it's in the election really is in should be about the fact that the province is facing slash is. In the midst of a number of crises all of them, compounded by muskrat falls this. We really need to be talking about the big pitchers shit here a fundamentally vote like how this is gonna work going forward. This election is symptomatic of political system that is in grave health and possibly terminally. But the election like you said really the contest between the government has like everything is like turn around things could be fine trust us, and then like the PC party, which is still not come to terms with its complicity in this fast. Go called muskrat falls who tell by basically like, I don't know. Chaz Crosby latest science the Crosbie family. He's here to avenge his father who never got to be premium or whatever and some weird long tangle, you'd family dynasty stuff with the equally more imperative. They're both like yelling at each other lake. Your bad penny. No, you're the bad party. And like the other parties couldn't even get full slates together. And the province is just like, I don't know, man. Like, it's like, we talk. There's a lot of the grievance of deliver just in Canada and stuff Canadian Twitter related like new, it doesn't even compare it to the province here. It's like every it's like an emperor has no clothes situation. Like everybody knows that everything is fucked up, but for a variety of reasons, the people that are actually in charge and can do things about it. Like will not were cannot discuss it. I like what we've seen though in Canadian politics and in western politics, more. Generally when there's that level of statement politics amongst the dominant party players. And that's usually when either third party or a third candidate or some sort of other force comes into play. And I was just looking into. I was watching sort of clips from the debate and the one that kind of struck me just because it struck some of the same tones were seeing elsewhere, can you tell me about the Newfoundland alliance party. What is that exactly? Inter I interviewed Graydon Pelly the leader of the Newfoundland alliance a few months ago and finally got the interview at last week. And yeah, basically, it's. It's sort of like an unfinished, it's it's it is kind of popular protests Purdy, but it's like because all of those kinds of parties take basically like the background. They just absorbed, the background radiation of whatever ideology culture that play in society where the policies so like it's got that sort of populist protests like big pasture energy feel but it's like it's like Newfoundland populism. So it's like we need to help the poor, and like, you know, get government lifting again and stop taxes and bring back the fishery and all that sort of like, but it's, but it's like they're having these really big level conversations about like, how does democracy work in the province. Should we even have political parodies? Like what if we altered like our system of government, and they're like tapping into questions about like really big pitcher radical sort of radical like important things. And I think people want to discuss like this government was elected in two thousand fifteen in pert because did. A democratic reform program which never materialized they've met for like two weeks in April, and then the election happened. So we'll see that again when they reconvened. So there's an appetite for that their alliance. If it's it's like right now, it's kind of the loose coalition of like community activists who need to put their energy somewhere. I want to coordinate more than just being straight up independence. It's really weird. Honestly, I still trying to process like I'm still trying to process what to me when the Newfoundland alliance. I kind of came on the scene last fall. I think the big thing that leader Graydon Pelli is former PC member and use the president of the party. He sickly presented as like worthy anti party party. We're going to just get rid of political parties. But now looking at their slate, they have less than ten candidates. So it's kind of unclear I think you can kind of see how they're restrained to restructure their messaging right now to kind of knowing that that's probably not going to be a possible. They can't he at least kind of sounds like. Like the kid and you'd like ran for student government trying to be like, I hate government, and I hate school, and I wanna be student president and then accidentally one, and and it would be like, oh, I guess I have to meet with the principal now. And that's my job because I made this dumb joke or I'm making the stance that I now have to fall on. So in there now trying to organize for a a an election, essentially, no, I just noticed from his response is yesterday in the debate to people would be like, what do you think about, you know, privatizing public services, and he kind of very similar response to a lot of policy questions. Which was I'm gonna talk to people about what they want before. I decide the was a grading that sort of go to answer for like any question if there's they don't really have any policy at all because the policy is like, well, if we're elected we'll ask what you want us to do. And then we'll do it. So like it's a little bit. He was getting out. Of applause. It seem like on Twitter like social media people were liking what he had to say. Yeah. I guess we'll see how shakes with New Zealand alive. I definitely will fade that like of the current slate of leaders grading belly definitely the most charisma like in that like in a sort of very traditional classic Newfoundland vaguely, Joey Smallwood ish kind of way, you know, the sort of lake little fellow in Gambo style. I guess he's a little cricket this time. But it's it's that you know, he can hit all the classic notes. You know, like we have to defend our frontline workers and for the people, and you know, he's got that kind of I love my three immigrants funds. You know, like, so I have I have often because like, I don't know man this point. I'm just like Tinder, so I have to not lean into this. Like, I just wanna see k off to zen impulses. Never lead to anything. Good in any polity in North America in the last three years. But like man, I dunno. I hope grading gets in just because I think it would be funny and. And they're not entered. He I think he does have Sean, and they're not running enough candidates to form a government select there's no actual risk of something catastrophic happening. I don't think unless I don't know there's some weird situation where like it's a fifty fifty slope between the liberals Matori's, and then great and gets in and supports chess. And there's a nightmare coalition. Holiday want to end on an optimistic note about Newfoundland's election. You know, I definitely understand what people are saying about, you know. Feeling I guess frustrated with how things work Nuys Amine like end EP also didn't even you know dominate enough to fill their even like a half the slate like not even twenty students so all their sitting empty chairs are not running against there's a chance they could be a squeezed out completely. But I think when you mentioned, you know, what coalitions might be possible. I think there's there's actually a fair few independence running in this election to I think the pending on you know, which characters in which politicians make it in. 'cause I think it's one thing that's kind of characteristic about politics in this province is that people. I mean, the politicians personalities are almost more important than like their party legion ses. So I think it'd be interesting to see what the legislature looks like in like after the selection of the sort of grand scale leader level, politics, like think we can. Flick write that off because neither Dwight ball nor chest Crosby are particularly popular. Ellison coffin started the job like a month and a half ago. Nobody knows you and grin Pelly if feeding to our lights so in given writings, right, so. I don't know. It's honestly, I just expect voter turnout to go down one other thing that you know, if people are wondering, why should I pay attention this election? It is one of the one of the last liberal governments in the country right now in terms of like provincial government. So given how closely between the PC's in liberals right now. I think it'd be really interesting to watch in see what happens here because I think voters are definitely gonna be thinking about, you know, the issues that really specific to here right now and other not that like falls in the Dwight ball, the premier's favour guess will see out goes. But yeah, I would be interested to see like how the trend of the country slowly turning more blue. Yeah. Especially since that's the interesting thing. It's a big part of the liberal. The unspoken paired of the liberal platform is that reelect us, and there's a liberal government Ottawa, and we'll continue getting good things, which is fine. Except that who I don't know what's going to happen. Federally anymore, and I don't think a lot of voters necessarily earns confidence a would have been maybe eight year ago. So if going to be interesting to see how that factor is both in this election now, and then whenever the federal election happens here. And finally, it's time for Diglis. This is the part of the show where we share our boldest bad. Opinions are rants are -dorsements. Or whatever else we need to get off our chests drew wanted to get started. Well, we're doing endorsements than I would like to endorse the new Finland labrador independent which today today subscription drive in the hopes of actually making us a sustainable media organization going forward, although that's very hot chick because he got to a real on. I'll let yourself. Okay. Well, that's fair. My actual take that this is the concertos election, and the only ethical course to do voting wise. This is just going to the ballot box and vote for the option that will just fuck shit up in the legislature the most because we need to just like put a bunch of people in their like shake it up and do something because this is getting fucking ridiculous. Can you are you allowed to write in ballots in Newfoundland? Like, can you say could everyone be like drew Brown is my pick for candidate? That would be terrible for everyone involved. But unfortunately, it's not even an option. I think you can basically just pick. What they give you spoil it. Yeah. But it's it's time for some tactical chaos voting. I think there's no such thing as tactical chaos. Those are two different. Those are two opposing words. Not not not in this. Newfoundland land of strategic chaos. I like it. All right Hollywood. You have for us. Well, today, I was I realized I was disappointed because I missed the it's gonna be may mean with Justin Timberlake. Today's may. I I think we should bring it back. Go back to the simpler time with memes. They're just moving too fast now and. That's my hot take Malek's Colonel the UN has like international days of and there's always one we should have an international mean calendar. Oh, I like that. Because you're I'm with you. I can't keep up like I'll be whatever hanging out on the internet on all of a sudden people are like days or hours into a joke. And I'm way behind and I have no idea. Like, I don't know. What the I'm baby thing is moving. I have no idea what that is. And I'm too old to care or figure it out. Also liked it better. When means for like strictly, fun and pleasurable not used to radicalize dossiers on the internet that I would also like to go back to that. I mean, I don't know that there was ever a time where like these didn't really use memes. But that that that's a beautiful view of the internet. I'm gonna give it shout out to something. I've already mentioned on the show, which is Steven Harper's favourite Canadian content. It's Murdoch mysteries. I used to think the show is just like so boring so Canadian just like aggressively low production, but the same time high production in the way that like well-funded Canadian TV can be where you're just like I feel like I know what everyone's salary is on this TV show. But I haven't watching it just out of like sheer boredom, and I was like, you know, what this is actually pretty interesting or it's kind of trying to do interesting things. So in the episode, I mentioned where they go to Newfoundland one of the things that they also do is like the captain is talking to the local doctor who's apparently, she does everything she's like therapist. He's a doctor. She helped himself cases. But it's nineteen twenty and whatever that's what she does. He's talking to her about like, what are the challenges with having a son that he thinks might be getting they call him a sec- the whole time. Which was really really stressful. But I was like for Canadian TV this feels radical. And so I just wanna give a shout out to Murdoch mysteries trying to like seed in little dots. Radicalism to Canadiana. Like, I think they're doing something. Interesting. I was just trying to imagine Stephen Harper watching that TV show like that particular episode, and I was like I wanna sit beside him on the couch and just watch him and laugh are the mysteries. Really good. No. The mysteries are never good. I've watched many detective shows, I can always tell who's who's the killer who's done it. But you know, like, if you're if you're like a casual viewer, they're pretty decent pretty exciting. All right. Well, that's it for the show this week. Thanks so much to our guest, drew Brown and Holly, McKenzie Sutter, drew how can people keep up with you? You can follow me on Twitter at drew Finland. It's like land, but was at the front, and otherwise you can find me and whatever else up to the the. And holly. How about you? My Twitter handle is at holler dollar with the to us and yet right for the Canadian Press. So I guess there's no Goto source, but pretty much newspapers across the world. Any copy about new opera door? That's me. Fearsome spectacular Twitter names for the record. I think probably the best we've had on the show. This episode was recorded at Boca fry studios and produced by Dora as lobby you can find us on itunes by going to. It's a space dot com. Please leave us a rating on a review, especially if you like the show because we want to know what you think you also get in touch with us on Twitter at it's a space, and you can get in touch with me on Twitter at the moshav say space comes out every Friday and until next week. Stay safe.
February 10: Biden his time
"Hi I'm Rosemarie. Barton Ella mean mood and we are the hosts of party lines launched his podcast to help you make sense of the twenty nine thousand nine federal election. But here's the thing you you liked us. You liked so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart art and fun so subscribe to Party Lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be for every including you and me and all of us this is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Helen Man in for Carol off good evening. I'm Chris. How this is as it happens? The podcast addition tonight biding his time. Iowa didn't go. Well he's polling badly in New Hampshire but our guests says we shouldn't count out Joe Biden Jordan just yet. I'll take coming full circle for one hundred Alex as a young girl. She taught herself English by watching jeopardy. Now she's all grown up and a contestant on the show. I game piece of history. Archeologists have found a thousand year old glass artifact on an island off the English coast. Our guest says it's likely a piece from an ancient board game from from disarming to disarmed and evil looking tree in England has terrorized locals for generations with its two massive branches that looked like monster clause that is until a storm ripped its limbs clean off signs of the Times Polish towns declare themselves. LGBTQ free but local politicians. There weren't counting counting on local artist exposing new policy by simply putting it on a sign for all to see and Newfoundland and Labrador says it has a plan to keep electricity bills from from soaring as it continues to deal with followed from troubled energy project but our guest says people in the province may end up on the hook anyway as it happens the Monday edition radio that knows. With great power comes rate responsibility. The things did not go joe. Biden's way during the Iowa caucuses and they haven't gone great rate for him since either but tomorrow's a new day in a new state New Hampshire as the Democratic Party's candidates for President head into that primary contest Barack Obama's former or vice president is hoping to turn things around Mr Biden. Support has been dropping steadily since his fourth place. Finish in Iowa last week Bernie Sanders N.. P. Buddha judge meanwhile are surging in most polls Andrew Feldman is a democratic political consultant and the founder of Feldman Strategies. He's also a former volunteer for Joe Biden back when he was a primary primary candidate in two thousand and seven we reached Mr Feldman in Washington. DC Mr Feldman Joe Biden finished a distant fourth in Iowa. What will it mean for his campaign? If things go just as badly in New Hampshire well look. No one is expecting. Joe Biden to win in New Hampshire. We have to understand. Is that both. Iowa and New Hampshire are not reflective of the larger electorate In the Democrat primary when we move beyond New Hampshire. I'm sure we go to. Nevada and Nevada is heavily Latino state then you go to South Carolina where the majority of voters are African American. So the big question for Joe Biden Ryden is if he loses badly tomorrow night can he hang on his support among people of color if we start to see that that support is slipping clipping then his campaigns in real trouble. It's a little too early to tell but what I can tell you is him not doing well in New Hampshire coming off. A bad performance in Arwa will not be good for the momentum and the narrative around his campaign but it doesn't necessarily knock out. Yeah pull has just come out saying that nationally nationally. His supporters tumbled to seventeen percent. That's a Reuters. IPSOS poll look sure. Absolutely I mean look. He's not he's not the flavor of the moment right now no but I also cautioned voters And your listeners About national holes in the United States in this presidential race because we don't elect nominee Mini based on national polls. This all comes down to the states so the question for Joe Biden is can he hang on to the support that he's shown In the polling that he has is from people of Color. Joe Biden has been up by as much as thirty points throughout this campaign polling in South Carolina so if Joe Biden only only win South Carolina by five points is it seen as a victory. You know it this is very important to watch because p Buddha judge who is doing doing very well in the early states he has a dismal showing in polling with people of Color. Does his early support. Change that as we get to South Carolina WanNa as we get to Nevada you know that is the bigger question. And that's why Michael Bloomberg is waiting in the wings for everyone to Get to the states. Aides were he has dumped two hundred fifty million dollars in on Super Tuesday. Yeah well money is the big deal here. Right and Biden says what he says he's bringing about half a million dollars a day right now. How does that compare to the kind of money that other candidates have their hands on? Look to be honest with your half a million dollars. A day is not a tremendous amount of resources. So you know look we know that Amy Klobuchar after what people say was her best debate performance. This past Friday evening pulled in three million dollars over the weekend. So I think Joe Biden Is going to If he that's could be one of the biggest Downsides inside of him not doing well in New Hampshire is resources continuing to slow down. And someone like a Bernie Sanders and a people to continue the momentum. They're getting from these early state performances. Yeah it's interesting. You use the word momentum and at the same time you're describing these two states Iowa New Hampshire in particular is not being representative of the US population and you have to wonder why they still have that lead position in the political season when momentum and messaging is so important look absolutely. I think you're going to have a renewed focus on whether Iowa especially Iowa after what we have dealt with over the last week here with the debacle that was the Iowa Caucus and so. I think we're GONNA have a real focus on this. We're GONNA look at well one. How do we stop caucuses this from happening? And also Should we have a state. That's more representative. Look down is going to be an in fight In the party that I think will take take place but I don't think it should happen now. Our focus has to be on sorting out there's nomination fight and uniting to beat Donald Trump not on you know internal party squabbles. Right now so give me your best. Guess what's going to happen to more. What kind of numbers should we look for? Look I think my best guess at this point Is that Biden will finish in third or fourth. And I think you're GONNA see Bernie Sanders Be Victorious again in New Hampshire. He's had support there for a very long time. I am I think people will come in second place but the dark horse tomorrow may be Amy Klobuchar Amy. Klobuchar did a had a very strong debate performance and her campaign is saying they have read record breaking crowds. The question is can she leapfrogging Joe Biden. Can She leapfrogging logging Elizabeth Warren to come in the top three and and you know create some headlines If Elizabeth Warren does not finish ahead of Joe Biden. I think her campaign is going to have to start facing some tough questions about how they Continue raising money but Joe Biden is is going to be Hoping during that election night tomorrow night calms Sooner rather than later so he can move to more diverse states and make continue to make his argument that he's the only one that can bring a broad diverse coalition together. He always has rested on this notion that he is the most electable candidate against Donald trump is that starts to falter and in he is not seen as that anymore. Who Do you think is the Democrats best chance right now? Look I think we have a lot of candidates candidates that can be Donald Trump. I mean I do think Joe Biden can be Donald Trump I think Bernie Sanders can beat Donald Trump. And I also think someone Like Elizabeth Warren can be Donald Trump. Because the reality is that working class people across the country have been sold a bill of goods by Donald Trump. Donald trump is not talking about making making sure people have healthcare. He's actually talking about taking it away so you know. I think that argument going into these early states. What we what? Democrats need is a candidate. They're they were excited by because we cannot just run a campaign against Donald Trump. We need to run a campaign for something so we need a candidate that is firing up People across the country. And that's what this nomination fight is all about is finding out who is exciting. Our electorate the most all right well Mr Feldman we will will be watching closely to see at least what the excitement like New Hampshire tomorrow. It's GonNa be a fun one for sure all right. Thanks for talking to us. Thank you bye-bye Andrew Feldman is a Democratic Party. Strategist in the US. We reached him in Washington. DC The muskrat falls hydro-electric project has been called a boondoggle a poorly planned project. whose original six billion dollar price tag has more than doubled but today people in Newfoundland and Labrador got a ray of hope that power will not be as expensive as they feared at least for now this morning? The federal and provincial mentioned governments announced a plan to reduce the projects short term costs a plan that aims to protect hydro users from absorbing the projects cost overruns. Here's Premier Dwight Ball. No government since confederation as faced a tougher challenge. How is it the province that is an energy? Powerhouse could become a province where people are scared to turn the lights on. Thanks to our partnership with the Federal Government. We now have a sustainable long-term solution. Your rates will not go up as a result of Muskrat falls. That's Dwight Ball Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador Ron. Penny isn't celebrating just yet. He's a lawyer lawyer. In the chair of the Muskrat falls concerned citizens coalition. We reached him in Saint. John's Mr Penny. You were there when Premier Ball and the federal natural resources. This Minister Shameless Oregon. Made this announcement today. Does it seem to you like it has good news for new Finland in Labrador. I think the press conference was actually premature. You're essentially what this press. Conference was about was announcing that they were going to enter into negotiations on the financial underpinnings muskrat falls so. We don't know a lot more now than we did before. I think the prisoner held a political necessity because he had promised to make an announcement A The federal provincial deal and they didn't have it so this was an offense away of him. Meeting is political commitment without really telling us very much. The other thing that's happened is that our public utilities board has just answered a serious questions on rate mitigation. And that's just come down so so there's a lot of pressure on the government to to both respond to that and to bring the federal government side as well and that report came out on Friday suggested that it was going to cost a lot more for electricity. Yeah the our interest rates now around thirty cents and this is going to go up to Traumas twenty-three cents so it's roughly seventy percent increase that's projected. It's a real problem for For Newfoundland consumers we have a lot of low income families here and it's going to be very very very tough and along with all of that is. Our fiscal situation is really desperate running a a billion dollar deficit this year and people are rightfully very very worried. You know you. You mentioned this potential. Seventy five percent increase in the premier did say today that hydro users won't see the rates rise because of Muskrat falls so does that not at least provide some relief to hydro users in the province. Will the problem with that is a lot of this is in smoke and mirrors where are transferring Some of the the expenditures that or the requirements revenue requirements back to the taxpayer but the tax payer the ratepayer one on the same mm-hmm so I'm not at all confident that We've arrived at the answer yet and I think the general public of Newfoundland. It's not confident either. And and people have no confidence that rates are not going to go up tremendously. So they're making decisions now as to how they can meet that and one of the ways that people people are acting. And I've done this myself that we're we're all out buying heat pumps mini split heat pumps so he comes very very efficient But the result of that is that the demand for an atrocity. In fact it's going down now and it's going to go down even more and that poses a problem because the revenue requirements is still there so we're in what some people call this a death spiral because if demand goes down you have to increase rates more and as rates go op. Demand goes down even more. So it's IT'S A it's a big big problem. It's also it's a big problem for the for the people of Canada because the federal government and its wisdom Richard we're lack thereof has guaranteed so almost eight billion dollars in loans for the Muskrat falls project So if we can't meet the the revenue requirements and the governor candidates have to step in. Well I wanted to. Maybe you can help us understand that because as I see it. The government of Newfoundland was always going to be on the hook for any cost overruns on Muskrat falls and they've ballooned more than doubled. So what does it mean to the province and its finances if you the federal government is going to perhaps step in one of the thoughts is that they might be able to to extend the financing period. I was very long as it is now but I don't see that the people of the province can actually afford this four to pay for this project and that's why. I say that the people of Canada should be concerned because If we can't the lenders for the project They're fully protected. But the tax payers of Canada aren't it sounds like you're suggesting this is going to be a white elephant. It's already a white elephant. Will question is who's white elephant is going to be. You Know I. I remember there was so much excitement when this thing was announced at least among its proponents thinking this is going to be a great thing for the province and over time public sentiment has definitely soured has. Has the problems have added up. It's interesting you were never as I understand it a believer in this. You're never on side. I WANNA know why we in a few others yes We were great lonely at the time we were opposed from the very beginning. We were concerned about costs. And I had a personal experience because my senior public service both at the provincial and the municipal level and we did a number of alaric projects. Nothing nothing compared to the size of Muskrat falls so I saw what happened with. He's probably checks and I doubt very much that we have the capacity to bring this project in on time dodgers and regrettably I was I right so now the province is is going to be going into further negotiations. It seems with the federal government. Is there anything substantial -sential that can be done to serve reduce the economic impact on Newfoundland and Labrador. So one thing the federal government could do they could take an equity equity position take fifty percent of the equity because the governor of Newfoundland has borrowed almost four billion dollars in order to meet the equity requirements for the approach and that money has got to be paid back so if we can have that and the and the federal government takes half that that would be a big help but even with that. There's not enough money there to bring rates down to the target rate which I think is thirty five cents so big problem and I don't see anything today. That brought us closer to a solution. Mr Penny thank you very much for talking with us. We appreciate it. You're very welcome. bye-bye Ron Penny is a lawyer. A former public servant and the chair of the Muskrat falls concerned citizens coalition. We reached him in Saint John's When Christina ing moved to Canada from China in the nineteen eighties she didn't know how to speak English? Now she's fluent and she credits her own own hard work and determination with helping her learn the language but she also attributes her skill to an unwitting. Tutor Alex Trebek's as in the host of jeopardy and along with vocabulary and how to phrase an answer in the form of a question ms ing also got an extremely extensive course in trivia now. She says her life is coming full circle. Because is this week. She's actually appearing on jeopardy. We reached Christina. Ing in Calgary ms saying what was it like for you to finally hold that jeopardy Buzzer Sir in your hands. After so many years of watching the show it was a very surreal experience. Very I guess shaky at first I Because that Buzzer is make it or break it and to appear on the stage with Alex trebek's In studio was just something I cannot imagine you have a special connection to jeopardy Based on your time growing up how did you first discover the show. I discovered this show when I Came to Canada in October. Nineteen eighty nine and very much Started watching wheel of fortune and jeopardy. At that time there was only thirteen channels and and so- jeopardy became a soundtrack of my life. And every night I would watch both shows but in jeopardy in particular allowed me to really practice English. Listen to the clues Listen for words that I know right so from what history or US President or understanding Shakespeare. Run the gamut It was very very useful learning tool but it also allowed me to feel more fully integrated into Canadian North American society. You I've heard some people who have Have come to North America or to come to English as a second second language. Say that they have discovered how to speak more and understand more through things like soap operas but this is something special because it's imparting knowledge to do you not just language as you say yes. It is a very unique way to learn right and understand what's happening around us. Still from current events as current as the Oscars last night or the Sega Awards. Two weeks ago those clues up here on jeopardy so one example that I see is how do you feel how do I feel that I am. A Canadian is my understanding. You know Knowledge of our Canadian prime administers our provinces. As well as you know what are some of the great musicians such as Celine Dion David Foster so those questions could come up anytime on jeopardy so it becomes very very relevant and a very powerful tool to actually know one thing obviously playing in in your living room or second guessing sitting in your comfort of your own home. Where did you actually get the idea to to make the leap from Fanta contestant? Well over the last I would say five years my husband and I noticed that are breadth and depth of knowledge was improving quite a bit then about three years ago. We met this lovely couple on One of the princess ships sailing out of San Francisco and he was an excellent Trivia player. Everything was done and enjoy and he said you two are quite good I think you can make it on the online exam for jeopardy so it was through meeting this very smart intelligent couple that we started thinking about it a little bit more and finally last year my husband Ritchie said I I signed us up and he had more confidence in me than I did myself so I have him to think to Get me onto the show. You mentioned earlier. They've got a chance to to practice on that Buzzer. We hear from experts. People like Ken Jennings the superstar of jeopardy. That the real key to this is figuring out how to time that that buzzard can you share at least that part of your strategy. Because I know you can't tell us how you did yes. The BUZZER is critical. And I think that's where Ken was so powerful in his seventy four game winning streak and he just won the greatest of all time tournament as well and he really focused when he beat Jeans Whole Tower on the rhythm of Alex. Alex Trebek's voice so I did not get into that level of detail but when I appeared in the addition in Seattle in July they did would give us the jeopardy Buzzer clicker pens if you will. And they had recommended that we practice and so my husband has it was getting closer to the show. He would asked me to stand as we're watching our daily jeopardy episode to stand with my heels on and practice clicking and answering it in the form of the question and can jennings will also say this that most of the contestants no most of the answers most of the time and so that ability to clicking clicking at the ideal window is critical many of us have been following Alex Trebek's especially since he talked about the fact that he's facing stage H.. For Pancreatic Cancer Right now and and yet continues to host that program and push through. What was it like for you to be on the show and thinking if it was especially especially meaningful given what you know? He's dealing with absolutely I mean. What an inspirational Canadian and an inspirational human and being So he was so humble so genuine and came right up to the audience and had conversations and he would answer very honestly about his recent round of Chemo treatments and he wouldn't make jokes Taking on the weekend he was on his roof roof trying out the new leaf blowers he had purchased to clean the gutters so he just kept The mood and the spirit very very positive And each contestant gets to have a Picture with Alex trebek's so that was a high water mark for me. What do you think your eight year old self with think now knowing that you got to appear on this very famous game show what is unbelievable? Well it sounds exciting. We're looking forward to seeing you on the program. It's too late to wish you luck but thank you for speaking with us. I really enjoyed the conversation. Well thank you very much and I just like to say that. Um You know Canada made all of this possible for me. All right thanks again missing. Thank you have a good day. bye-bye we reached Christina. ING in Calgary. Missing will be appearing as a contestant on jeopardy tomorrow night Barking up the wrong tree is usually a metaphor until you see a tree. That's terribly horribly probably wrong. I'm talking specifically about a tree. Called the snetterton scary tree which for decades has been growing in haunting the village of Snetterton England and every driver on the snetterton circuit the local motorsports track once a lap. While they're tearing around at top speed. There would be seeming to silently. Promise that even if they won the race it would inevitably claim them. It had two branches pointing skyward like creepy arms generally looked like an ancient green monster radiating a sense of inescapable doom. It reached peak scaring us about five years ago taking a shape that even inspired a local beer called Snetterton scary tree but then around twenty seventeen one of its sky reaching branches wound up curving down so it looked last like malevolent forest demon eamon and more like an ineffectual parents saying said come here and now unfortunately it's not scary at all this weekend. Violent storm ripped off both both arm like branches as the snetterton circuit twitter account sorrowfully tweeted Snetterton. Scary tree rebranded as tree. Well that's sad but don't count it out. It is obviously infused with evil. I'm sure it has some idea of how to scare everyone again. In future just lost a couple of branches it's it's completely stumped. Look for years. Men were disappearing from Toronto's Rana's gave village I feel terrorized I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover. DC This is happening. How can you not see this? Yes they suspected a serial killer and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever you get your podcasts Shin Fain one Ireland's election but it remains to be seen if it will be able to govern the left wing populist party once affiliated with the IRA IRA won more votes than any other party over the weekend. It's a stunning result for Shin Fame. which was once seen as a hardline fringe group and the political arm of the Provisional Irish Republican Army Army responsible for violence and killings during the troubles Xinfeng veto to centrist parties that have governed Ireland for decades fina gale and fiene affoil and Chin Faint? It says it's willing to work with those parties but the feeling does not appear to be mutual. Michael Clifford is a columnist for the Irish examiner. We reached him in Dublin. Michael Michael What message did voters sand by giving Shin Fain. What is seen as a stunning victory on Saturday? I think the message they sent was they want change change. The change they appear to want is in relation to quality of life issues as you may be aware. Ireland is currently the fastest growing economy in Europe. But there's a number of quality of life issues that have not recovered since the recession and primarily among does is the issue of Housing and homelessness as. Well there's an awful awful lot of stuff around the health service there's very long waiting lists for various procedures. Those are the kinds of issues that were for most in the election. The Ashton fame promised Dash. They would change the way things were they make life easier. They're phrased their slogan during the election was give workers and families families a break and it seems to have reached some successful and yet it's interesting that the party only ran forty two candidates at one hundred sixty constituencies truancies so cautious will ever since the Good Friday Agreement in one thousand nine hundred ninety s fan has been on an upper trajectory indoor public don. Own here electorally. Now that continued right through to the last general election in two thousand and sixteen since then Gerry Adams who was very controversial figure for step down as President Mary Lou McDonald who has no connections to the IRA or the past. She became president at people. Thought this would bring them onto a higher plane. Yes in the local and European elections last year. The actually lost seats lost nearly half their council seats. They lost most of their European members of parliament. So there was a feeling that they were in some trouble and as a result of that they seem to gun in a defensive mode coming up to this election they actually selected a number two candidates they had on the basis is that they were going to concentrate on trying to hold onto as many seats as possible so like everybody else. They did not see this massive surge towards them mm Dasa ultimately happened in the election. This is really the biggest upset electorally in this country. Possibly since nineteen thirty two film Fan Hello is effectively on equal footing with the other two parties and that is a massive upheaval in this country. You know you mentioned Gerry Adams send and the troubles. It wasn't long ago really that most people would have associated Shin Fain with that and those many people died at thirty five hundred people a lot a lot of those listening outside of Ireland probably make those associations as well but inside Ireland itself. What do you think should fain represents today day with those associations? You're talking about that definitely. What what was the retarding factor on debt advanced development of Xinfeng in India Republic? Down here and it it has been for over twenty years for example Martin McGuinness. Who's now deceased would have been a colleague of Gerry Adams through the trump Z.? Ran For president here in two thousand eleven and the pass. I kept coming up atom victims relatives and all approach and what Mr Adams was in place that was seen as a big issue now even though he's stepped on news at older the generation would still considered is issue is would seem that for the younger generation they merely represented a change from the two long standing parties. Ladies and that it would seem that the younger generation don't see themselves as connected to the troubles not remember the Good Friday Agreement twenty two years ago so perhaps anybody under forty for instance they they don't associate skin fan with Detroit's away. An older generation would now. I won't issue that arises. There is that some believe and under some evidence Florida's that the gold. IRA figures that it. Rhonda the so-called Republican Movement that included confounded the IRA that they're still to some extent pulling the strings. Fame in west Belfast. An older generation I would say in this country still adults around them in Dr Guard so Ashen Fan tries to move beyond that passed. How much credit does the leader Mary? Charlie MacDonald get for this this victory ironically six months when I looked something a colleague in mind roast position was under pressure. Things weren't working out. I know since the campaign began three and a half weeks ago. She certainly came into rolling issues. Pretty good at presenting yourself to the public. She was on message the the whole time she presented herself as very empathic. She kept talking about. Give me a chance. US initially excluded from leaders debate and this garnered her certain amount of sympathy. The remains to be seen whether as well noted that the phrase campaigning poetry governing and pros the big leap for Sin Fan would be if they do get into government. Will they take the difficult decisions that have to be taken in government take care to public finance six CETERA. That's when we'll really see how good I'm this McDonald's wrong turn out to be in regard. The Prime Minister's Party Fianna Gael has said it won't work with them. A Fiona foils their other option. Can they find partnerships sick million dollar question because as you see fit against anyone work with open to yesterday in a false said. It won't work with seen the folks that won't work within a goal in a coalition. So you have a scenario whereby we're still not sure how it's going to turn out. We need a strong government in this country. Three over the next twelve months in particular because the trade negotiations in relation to breaks indy. You will be at a vital stage and we have a huge interest in that because of the volume column of Trade. Redo it so to be very important for this country for economic outlook that we have a strong government. That's a good negotiating position over the next twelve months and in fact for many brexit is reopened the whole debate about Irish unification This this Shin Fain win and I it's if it does form warm government It's handling of that. I'm wondering how you think it will move forward. What did you see that? It'd be very interesting again because some people would suggest desktop a unity in an abortive. Paul is something of a Trojan horse in this election in that the core value within the party historically has been it'll be united Ireland. That's what the IRA talk killed. People far up until twenty years ago there were two political wing of the IRA distributions. The fear is that this core issue behind closed doors. The issue of community is still the man core of Kim Fan on these other quality of life issues are something of a Trojan horse. Some people would say that's unfair others would say that's that's that's the reality. We will be watching from here to see what happens in in terms of the future of your government. Thank you very much for talking with us. Thank you very much okay. bye-bye Michael Clifford is a columnist for the Irish examiner. We reached him in Dublin as the boredom sets in onboard toward the diamond princess in Japan Sodas the anxiety so far there have been a hundred and thirty five confirmed cases of the Corona virus on board a cruise ship off the coast of Tokyo. You that has the highest number of cases in one place outside of mainland China and for restless passengers who were confined to their rooms including hundreds of Canadians. Every day brings a new level of fear. Trudy Clemente is a Canadian on the cruise traveling with her husband she spoke with. CBC News Network Host. Heather Hiscox this morning from her quarantine groome. We're doing okay. I think today was probably the most stressful day we've had It was constant ambulances firetrucks army personnel. Here and just watching off the balcony and we didn't know how many more people became ill again end until this evening so the numbers are astonishing. You had an opportunity to go out for an stretch lakes today for a walk. But we didn't go. We're we're just going to stay here where we know we're not contaminated right now so your level of apprehension is going up trudy more very much so when we saw the the men in the has met suits and they were all almost marching towards the ship. We don't know what purpose of those gentlemen and were whether they're removing the sick passengers and staff from the ship or if they're disinfecting our reporter Chris Brown Chris was listening listening to the voice of the captain. Coming over the speakers I guess and was understanding some of the instructions that he was saying that the air is fresh that they're not recirculating old. Hold air so. Don't worry about that that you should wear masks at all times even when you open the door to receive your food. Are you doing that trudy. We did did it for the first time this evening so when our dinner came I answered the door with a mask on. Are you afraid you're going to get sick trudy. I am very afraid of getting sick and so is my husband husband. It's it's a possibility and we have our next door neighbor here. His wife was removed from the ship. And he's alone next star and he doesn't know when he's going to see her she's not allowed back on the jets. But you'll have to stay in a hostel our Tokyo right now. How `Bout Your family we members at home? How concerned about you are they? They're very concerned. we're in constant contact time. Change makes a big difference for when we can speak speak but Always every day constant contact. Trudy clement is a Canadian onboard the quarantine to diamond princess cruise ship off off the coast of Tokyo she was speaking with. CBC News Network Host Heather Hiscox earlier today. it's a small rounded piece of blue glass with white swirly lines on it probably about the diameter of a checker or backgammon peace. And maybe about the height of the thimble from monopoly an archaeologist say that it is actually a board game piece. That's more than a thousand years old. It was found last year during a dig on the island of Lindisfarne off the northeast coast of England. David Pats is an archaeologist. Who's part of that excavation? And we reached him near Richmond in North Yorkshire Berkshire England professor. Pets take us back to the day that his gaming piece was found on the island. What what happened at that site well frustratingly a strikingly? I wasn't this one day. I wasn't actually on the site I got. I got said Fights Graph Supermarket Carpark showing these beautiful little glass objects and actually being found by the mother of one of our site directors. She'd been volunteering with us for the day. And yes she she she. She found this while she was truly one of our trenches. So is absolutely lovely surprise and when you say traveling in in a trench I mean how deep was buried. And how hard was is it for her to uncover. It was remarkably easy. Where we're taking? We don't have to go down very far tall before we were into the archeology. So we were cleaning up around some stones which which might be part of the wall and just in the course of the the the very simple process this little little object pop town describe it for us. It's about a centimeter too high. Looks a little bit like a chewy sweets candy. It's actually Ashley Blue Glass Under Natural Light. It looks sterry office. Looks like very dark blue and has decorated with some white glass trails trails on it. A series of little bubbles top which which can little bit like a crown. So they're like little balls calls on the top of it. Yeah that's right yes. How unusual is it to find a piece specifically like this? Well there's maybe two or three from Britain and Ireland and handful of similar ones from from the rest of Europe. They do find much more simple examples but to find really intricate. Nice one like the one we found is exceptionally rare. Now this is either determined a game piece. How was the game piece I used in this period? They had a series of related board games and their their strategy games. Where you've got two sides? One one side has a king and the king is trying to escape from the other side. He's trying to get to the the answer. The board game. It's a it's a kind of almost like very simple wargame and we think the office because it had those particular nice little decorative bubbles was probably one of the king basis. Now you're dating this piece to year seven hundred to nine nine hundred someone in somewhere in there. What was going on on the island at this time? Well Linda Sohn's best known for being the site of the really important early medieval monastery. Some of your listeners might have heard of something called the Lindisfarne Gospels which is one of the great works. The early Medieval decorative artists an illuminated manuscript so beautifully decorated with lots of decorative letter and illustrations and Lindisfarne. With with a where these he's worked with artwork created. It was a major monastery. It was the economic center. It was a royal sites. There's an awful lot going on in what's now now quite a small small village so it sounds like quite a few people would have come through there then. Who Do you think might have been playing the game? Well did lots of people coming through some light Lindisfarne. We certainly know that. At least one CAIN Anglo Saxon King actually retired to Lindisfarne a AH most anglo-saxon kings tend to die in battle but if he got got got enough sometimes I retired and he would have moved to the monastery very lived out his life in pace. We certainly know there would have been pilgrims aristocratic visitors to somewhere like Lindisfarne. It could even have been used by one of the more employees monks themselves. There have been some stories suggesting it might have been vikings who brought the game piece while they were raiding. You don't buy that. There's there's a kind of shared culture across the North Sea area in this period so actually some of the things. Vikings using weren't that different from things anglo-saxon accents using so our little game piece it could potentially be Viking. We couldn't be certain it just sits quite comfortably in the range of Nice Nice items used by aristocrats of the North Sea World in this period. So I mean you said this is rare. Tell me the significance of this piece in finding actually means I think for us. It helps us. Remind people of the importance of Lindisfarne. People tend to think think of early medieval monasteries is being very remote and burial stare and certainly for some monks that that would have been true but as I said there are also loyal residences swear kings retired to see merchants and traders. And of course ultimately raiders coming through. So these are these. Are The crossroads of the early Medieval world. I think that's all encapsulated in this one little tiny playing piece. This excavation is is a partnership between Your University and a community archaeology group called dig ventures. You said already that. It was the mother of one of your archaeologists to uncovered this piece. D Do do you worry about having untrained members of the public working at historic sites like this now working with the communities always been something. I've done I mean a lot of people I mean myself. I came to archaeology through having volunteered as a student as a teenager. Frankly working with working with the community like this. Is that dedicated. They won't be there. That are desperate to learn. I mean we work closely with them is and they make fantastic workers any other of your workers mothers. There's wanting to get over there and at the site is is increasing interest in people working on the Dick Being Crowd Fund ourselves and we reached our target August thirty quickly this year. My Mom's desperate to come up as well so I think it's probably a good sign. Where's the game piece going to end up hopefully back on the island as a visitor center? There's little museum and I'm really keen to all these objects. Don't end up in a museum off the island. You want to bring them back excited visitors and the islanders can say it professor pets thank you very much telling us all about it. It sounds it. Sounds like it's it's quite fascinating site absolute pleasure. All right bye bye. That was Durham University. Archeologist David Pets. We reached him near Richmond. England Canadian classical pianist. Angela Hewitt is mourning the loss of her best friend her beloved Grand Piano in a facebook post this week. The Ottawa pianist described. How the piano she's played for the past? Seventeen years is now L. quote kaput. She had just finished recording her forthcoming album. Beethoven variations in Berlin and was feeling elated in the Studio Control Room when piano. Movers I came in to share some horrible news. They had dropped her fats. Yolly Concert Grand Piano and it wasn't salvageable. I adored this piano. She wrote. It was my best companion. I love how it felt when I was recording. Giving me the possibility to do anything I wanted. I helped my piano will be happy in piano. Heaven Unquote Today it probably would not surprise you to hear that. A Computer beat human at a game of chess but a couple of decades ago that it was not the case on this day back in Nineteen ninety-six IBM's supercomputer deep blue. Beat chess grandmaster garry gas poor of for the first time it was the first of a six game series which Mr Kasparov went onto win the CBC Sunday morning program covered those matches. And here's what the beginning of one segment on. The show. Sounded like from our archives in the end men beat machine but the machine did well enough to make history and surprise just about not everyone in the brain and ultra competitive world of chess this week. The supercomputer deep blue beat Gary Casper off the reigning world champion of chess. The computer won one game and tied to more deep blue. beat Kasporov not by out thinking him but by out muscling him monty newborn was as an organizer of the match between Casper and deep blue. He's a professor of computer science at McGill University this morning. He joins me from Philadelphia morning. Monte Nice to talk to you again and good morning is this. The best computer has ever done against a a chess champion. This this has been quite a accomplishment by BMC Computer why did most people when I spoke to you last year. You suggested that most people thought Kasporov would would reign supreme now that it turned out they were right but why would they so confident. Will there in the state of of of repression to some degree of the reality of the fact that the computers are getting pretty slick at this game You were down there to tell me about the match was there any of the tension and and Excitement and drama. You would expect to see in a match. Between two brilliant human chess players will was tremendous excitement the first round basically clearly the computer floor if you look at it as a boxing match. The computer floored the champion. The first round and the human came back and floored the computer in the second so they were slugging it out that was part of a segment on the CBC Sunday Morning Back in one thousand nine hundred six. You heard host Ian Brown interviewing chess event organizer organizer Monty newborn Bartoshuk Stachofsky calls signs a mix of art and activism. His critics say they're spreading fake news. Mr Stachofsky is a Polish filmmaker for his latest project. He's been posting photos on social media their portraits of Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Trans People in small Polish Polish towns posing next signs reading. LGBT free zone the signs are not official. What is official is the declaration that Polish politicians Titians have been adopting declaring community after community to be free of what they call? LGBT ideology we reached Bartoshuk. Stachofsky in Warsaw Mr Stachurski. What happened when you started posting these images on social media? Oh actually social media explode blow. I was quite surprised at the people be so much interested in my project whole Europe starts to speak about this. I mean I is seeing the my foetal on the twitter on instagram on facebook could a top politicians from European parliament was posting them but also from Sweden Italy Germany saw everyone was quite interested. What is going on and so when you say at the interest kind of exploded it? It's in a positive way that you're seeing that quite positive for me in person that want to highlight the homophobe in Poland. But another hand. I think that we need to support. is the only thing that the police right-wing governments Vermont's skirt of you speak of homophobia in Poland. What is the point you are trying to make by putting up signs that say LGBT Free Zone and then taking pictures of LGBT people aside those signs Last year it was quite talk fearful. LGBT persons there was like a big campaign against us made by the law and justice government. They used US US public enemy number one for the parliamentary elections. They show us to people. enemy at one of those types of propaganda was to introduce a declaration against the LGBT idology saw my science was simply downstairs. Adults Sir Declarations and would you say they're they're passing motions that reject LGBT ideology WHO's passing those motions members of the local councils The politicians from the law and Justice Party They opposed to what they see. Asa Trade for decrease values to the truth to their Polish type of a Title of life. They are verse Kurtz about this so they pass such a law. What are these motions mean? I mean what did they specifically say. It's mostly mostly symbolic tax. So they write that they will be a gain six qualification based on the World Health Organization standards or they we will not allow some political correctness officers to be in the schools That they will defend the tradition of Christianity in this county province or CD. That is introducing this this so it's quite small symbolic But it's obviously for those people who live in those counties or providence assigned. The politicians will not represent Dera problems in the city council that they will not treat emma the equal to other members of discoveries. Doctor They are threats to to to to to this community how many of these local governments that are passing these as motions right now near ninety thousand city province ninety. Yes exactly and is this where you are putting up your signs and taking the photos in these specific communities. Yes I tried to go there onto to ask people from. WBZ comes to to show up. They they are. They're y'all Heroes in this story because sometimes they are from diverse small communities where there's like ten thousand people living in any of the people you photograph. Say Okay that they regret appearing publicly. No they are quite proud of being Person they know that it it can be tough for them. Sometimes I still in contact with them. Most of their actions are positive. The families are supporting them. So so when you speak of these communities and even at the national level government saying that they reject LGBT ideology that they are sending sending the symbolic message. What effect is that having a across the country I think it's mostly pros? Inc Affect of you becomes the phrasing affect. Yes I mean the people who are a leading discussions like the teachers. There ain't no. How are those acts working? I they just know that the locality calcium Made such think they are asking us on the front page of our our local NGO. Do they count as the US some attributed topics on their lessons do they come As they speak about WTI stuff they don't know how this a new law is working. We just explain them. That is not a law. It's more about the symbolic Declaration of Homophobia in Poland. Not the think about this but people are skirt a your opponents. Those who reject What you're doing they are accusing you of spreading false snooze in putting these signs up taking the photos and posting them? What do you say I just simply for them? My signs are on Swirl the resolution that are already existing king in those coins is Dr nothing more nothing class the things that are in those declarations declaration of four with WBZ people. The ideology idle declaration made by John that they will simply formalize homophobia so. I think that I am not what's doing nothing more than to visualize the things that are distinct. What are your plans going forward? You plan to continue doing this or we're going take on other kinds of projects. Yes I want to continue to it. I want to go to the another other. Communities other towns province. Alvin counting were such declaration. Our existing on the Older people to stand up on to present ourselves to the photos Mr Stachurski. I appreciate you speaking with us today. Thank you very much. Thank you so much all right bye bye bye bye bar Stachofsky. Dashevsky is a Polish. LGBT activist we reached him in Warsaw. And you can see some Mr Stachofsky's photos on the as it happens website. CBC DOT CA Slash Aih. Ah You've been listening to the as it happens. podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. CBC Radio One following the world at six you can also listen to the whole show on the web just go to CBC DOT CA slash. Ah and follow the links to our or online archive. Thank you for listening. I'm Helen Them. And I'm Chris Boden for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
December 30: A celebration becomes a fight for survival
"This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Helen. Man Sitting in for Carol off good evening. I'm Chris Bowden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight. A celebration becomes a fight for survival. Five people are injured when an attacker with a machete bursts into New York Hanukkah celebration and a Jewish later tells us his community is traumatized breaking news and a busted reporter. A journalist says he was just doing his job by following protesters who broke into a generating station. The Crown prosecutors say. He was doing criminal mischief. The Jean Genie a little more than a year. After a scientist announced edited the genes of twin babies. A A Chinese court announces. He'll spend three years in jail instead of doing further work on sales. It had him at. You had me at. Hello well the truth. Is I have no idea whether rob Bob Feller even likes the movie Jerry Maguire but regardless he's collecting as many vhs copies of it as he can but lack next time. If you're worried that the people who make butter there's cultures are spreading themselves. Thin be horrified to learn that they're spreading the main ingredient pretty thin to and winning singlehandedly and Alberta man preserved his amputated amputated arm after finding someone to clean and process it for him and he tells the whole story with disarming candor as it happens the Monday edition radio guesses he we found the right taxidermist and the wrist is history. They had gathered at the Rabbi's House north of New York City to celebrate the seventh night of Hanukkah then an attacker Kerr came in and according to one witness started wielding his machete back and forth trying to hit everyone around five. People were injured in that attack this weekend and today day officials charged a man with federal hate crimes. They say they found handwritten journals with references to Jews and antisemitism in the suspect's home Aaron Wieder a member number of the Hispanic community and a legislator in Rockland county where the attack happened we reached him in Ram oppo earlier. Today Mr Wieder. How are you yourself feeling today? Under the circumstances. We're trying to hold up not just myself. It seemed tired. Jewish community and not only in Rockland county but all over new state and elsewhere as you know some lawmakers in New York are calling for the National Guard to come in to protect Jewish enclaves in your state would measures like that provides some level of reassurance members in the Orthodox Jewish community rabbis administrators the schools. In just lay. People are asking for more more law enforcement for more visible law enforcement to be out there and I think that it didn't really take place yet on the level to make people feel comfortable I know that synagogues in schools have hired private security. Really Guards to do that. So the answer about National Guards well any type of protection against the community that feels that they are under siege and they are very easy identifiable would be very helpful and welcoming. Can you take us back to the weekend. And tell us when I learned of the attack and what your thoughts and feelings were in that moment I was spending the Hanukkah celebration with family in Brooklyn and I've gotten text messages in the phone calls. People were confused scared in might children Dron Kinda got an in clink. What was going on and the sad part was a asked me if perhaps perhaps we should stay in Brooklyn and not go home for the night? That's what happened. Naturally I immediately drove back active at the time of Ram Oppo. I went down to the scene. I know the community very well I know the rabbi. In the synagogues we were there law enforcement was the air and it looked like a crime scene but a crime scene with a lot of failure and confusion by the People living in that community. Can you tell us anything about the victims who were injured in the attack. The victims were injured in the attack. Were total the five. Most of them are already released from the hospital. I met with him in fact one person is having a family. Emily wedding tonight is his son is getting married tonight but one victim is still in the hospital another person who has a heart condition and is literally fighting for his life and his family. You are asking the public for prayers. The family of the suspect released a statement through the suspect's lawyer that it says the suspect has quote a long history of mental illness and hospitalizations. It also says he has no known history of Anti Semitism and yet we now hear that he has been charged with federal hate crimes. Can you tell us what your thoughts are on what happened and and the person who is accused anyone who would do such a horrendous terrible is mentally deranged in fact people who have deep seated hatred in their hearts Ara in my opinion mentally not stable. The Washington Post says that the attack on Saturday was the thirteenth anti Semitic incident in three weeks in New York. I just wonder what your thoughts are on whether levels of government whether police forces are taking seriously the threats to Jewish communities in the United States right. Now let me correct you. It's thirteen incidents. Were reported. That will probably many more soft attacks. People Bill Yelling eightfold derogatory things towards Jews probably went unreported as an elected official in the county of Rockland. I've dealt with law enforcement in particular the sheriff of Rockland County. I have all the faith. He's doing everything he can to keep the community safe life and he has many sleepless nights worrying about an working hard to protect the Jewish community in Rockland County. But I do understand those who have looked for answers in having gotten them yet And feel that more needs to be done. What would you like to see down? Definitely in the increase of visible enforcement on the streets. I would like to see funding for private schools because private schools in the United States. I'm not a government funded and they are struggling for resources and It will go away for local governments in state and federal governments to provide for funding for security for schools. This is the number one concern of people in the Jewish community. God forbid if a target like that of a hate crime is a school children our most precious commodity that we have our future and we need to protect our children more than we protect banks and I can't say that schools private schools are better protected than the banks. How does the broader threat As well as the specific attack on the weekend and the ones as you say that have gone unreported. How do those affect people who are living day to day in Rockland County and going about about their business? What what kind of impact does it have on them? Do you think people are traumatized. And you could see if you walk down the streets. You could feel it. You can see a level of alertness that I've yet to seen before people are more alert. Specially at night you know. Even parents parents Being with children. How more alert? They are walking down the streets or going shopping malls people take this very serious and they do look over their back. I WanNa ask you finally. Why using this as happening right now? I don't have the answers and I hope there. There's no answer to this because there should never ever be an explanation. Hatred specially hatred that can lead to violence. So I hope we never have the answer for the question. You just asked Mr Wieder. I'm very sorry to hear what about what your community has been going through Our best to everyone who was injured. And thank you very much for speaking with us and I think you as well all right. Good bye bye. That was Rockland. County the legislature Aaron Wieder. We reached Him Ramco earlier today for more on this story. visit our website. CBC DOT CA Slash Ai. H The children we know is Lou and Nanna are now more than a year old and today we learned that the man who claims to have edited their genes will be behind bars for several years. Her John was widely condemned last year when he announced he had edited the genes of twin babies to make them immune to HIV. Now he's been sentenced to three years in prison in China and find the equivalent of more than five hundred sixty thousand dollars. Dr William Hurlbert is physician and professor of neurobiology at Stanford University. He was one of the people who John Quayle spoke with about his experiments before they were or made public we reached Dr Hurlbert on vacation at Solitude Mountain. Utah Dr Hurlbert. What was your initial reaction to the news? That her John Quaye had been sentenced to three years in prison. My first reaction was one of sadness because I know a doctor who we call. JK At his nickname. I know him personally. I spent quite a few hours talking with him. And I'm just sad that this worked out this way didn't didn't work out well for him or for for his country or for the world in some sense except the one good thing is it's alerted us. It's awakened the world to the series since of the issues that are coming down L. Tortoise with biotechnology what about What how does he feel about? Not just the Chinese government but the world generally responded A to his experiment. He was surprised personally but I had actually warned him that he was proceeding too fast. And I didn't know he had implanted. Embryos does but we had several conversations before this was disclosed anti warned him to go more slowly to keep in conversation with the rest of the international scientific community and more broadly and he was doing that to some extent. But not deeply enough. Not Transparently enough. Do you think he he feels any remorse. Yes in fact. He wrote to me about three weeks. After the Hong Kong summit were his work was disclosed. You know it was leaked he. Didn't you WanNa have known at that moment. But there's all sorts of forced on him at the Hongkong some little more than a year ago and afterwards he he emailed me and said can we talk walk and so over December January. We had a series of long long conversations two or three hours about this whole matter and at one point he sent me an email saying saying he really regretted that he proceeded the way Morse about it. The Chinese state media is reporting there prosecutors allegation that was motivated by fame and money I mean they say he conspired with others because there was a commercial benefit to be gained from all of this. What's your take on? That get sold exactly the way I see it. I mean it's pretty hard to separate out people's personal ambitions of fame and fortune. But I know for sure. He had a very idealistic overarching intention and he realized that there were a lot of very serious needs especially with genetic diseases. There were social problems associated with with HIV AIDS in China that he hoped to address and so he he was really believing that he was branching out boldly into something that would benefit. Everybody say had an idealistic intention as well as certainly wanting to be decisive undo good with his training fences on standing in the world it but a medical rules. Ethical rules exist for for fundamental 'til reasons. Why not experiment within those rules? He must have recognized that they existed. Well you know the rules are not as clearly set out as you might think and I think is one of the failures one of the reasons why we have to take this situation as more than just the work of a broke scientists or an individual moving too fast. He thought that he was obeying the rules. Set up and advocated by the National Academies. So had there been a clear set of guidelines and procedures to follow on very confident. He would not have done what he did. Yeah you said earlier here. Though that that he didn't tell you you didn't know that he'd actually implanted embryos. I mean he will withheld that information. You think it's because he thought it would raise a red flag with view. I'm not quite sure why he didn't tell me earlier than he did he. He never told me that he had implanted embryos. But he did tell me there was a serious scientific paper and I think maybe the reason he didn't tell me this is because he knew I'd been urging him not to do it but he was interested in the ethical issues and was turned understand. Adam he was just in too much of a hurry but this is such a crucial issue that I think you should have stayed within within the bounds so far larger wisdom. It sounds. He's like you. You were very thoughtful in the conversations you had with him in the advice you gave him. I guess you operate it with the what you had but do you have any regrets yourself off. I don't have any regrets about the way I conducted myself. I regret that this happened this way for. JK WHO's a very very bright person unfairly. Nice person a humble person but I know this is a bigger bigger story than just. JK's life family but there's a personal story to a to do. Do you worry that because he has pushed the bounds. This far that others will will do the same or take it even further. That's a hard thing to figure out what's could happen now. On the one hand he did open the territory but it's obvious that this brought a lot of scrutiny from the world a lot of opprobrium a lot of condemnation and so I think people will be a little more careful. I think the as I said earlier the most positive thing to come out of this and I told. Jk this when he was feeling especially especially down at the very least did one good thing and that was a wakened the world the seriousness of these issues. I'm hopeful that now we will find a way to have of a Goebel conversation about it because really these are issues that relate to the whole human family. They're really species issues. They're really issues for figuring out out. What kind of future we want as human beings and if we don't address them with Wisdom Brilliant Optima Cavada mistakes that will hurt individuals and road the social cohesion this so crucial for civilization? What seems to be getting lost? Though in these ethical discussions is is that these two real little girls apparently had their genes added. What kind of future do you imagine that they and possibly even their descendants? Attendance might face as a result of being unwitting test subjects. I think my own guests is that they'll be relatively unaffected physically but social issues. Of course significant. The families certainly do not want their children to be on public display. But they're going to have to keep them preserve their privacy privacy if they don't want either be just harassed by curiosity seekers or buys even negative attitudes Dr Hurlbert very much for your insights and for your time. Thank you all right goodbye. Dr William Hurlbert is a physician dishes and professor of neurobiology at Stanford University. We reached him at Solitude Mountain. UTAH The nearly two decades after a motorbike accident in his youth mark home grins right arm was was almost completely unusable and this year he decided it was time for his arm to part with his body but that did not mean. He parted with his arm after getting amputated amputated. Mr Holmgren sent his arm off to a taxidermist to have it cleaned and put back together and he recently got it back. We reached Mark Holmgren in Drayton Valley Alberta Berta. And if you're squeamish you might WANNA turn your radio off for the next six minutes mark. Why did you decide? You wanted to keep your arm. After it was amputated it was just something I always wanted to do. I thought about it for quite a few years and the thought it was a new thing too. If you have to get it removed then be something need with you. Say something need. What is the arm? Look like right now. That's just bone. It just looks like a skeleton bone. Now you had had a very severely injured arm right many years ago. It took a long time for you to decide to have it amputated. Can you can't take us through that a little bit. Basically just waiting to see if technology you would would advanced enough to be able to fix it or give me robotic arms there something like that but They told me there was no more real. Big Advances Vance's so I just decided to remove it so once you made this decision. How complicated was it to keep the arm and find a taxidermist a little tougher to find the taxes they miss? They just had to keep it frozen until I found the right versus. You had it in your freezer. I did yes. How do you bring home an amputated arm? It's completely frozen when I picked it up and disrupt it in a garbage bag and look at home carried it out so you say it was hard to find a taxidermist. Tell me about tracking one down what it was involved. I called about five of them first and they pretty much all shut me down right quick and so Put It on. FACEBOOK goes looking for a tax that they missed a friend. Sent me a link to one. He had talked to already so they already knew that I was calling and we now have the woman who did the work on the line. That's Danielle Swift. She is the CO owner of legends taxidermy and skull cleaning. Hi Danielle. Aw I so you had been given the heads up by by Marx friend. What was your first reaction when you heard about the idea? I thought he was joking. I I don't think I'll ever receive another phone call like that in my life that hey I have a buddy that wants to get his arm cleaned. It was like Oh okay okay okay. Yeah let's do it. Let's do it was at that instant you thought it was okay to go ahead and do it. I thought about it. I hesitated for maybe ten seconds and then I just I saw you know what this is GonNa be so cool so market said. He had a lot of trouble at my other people rejecting him. Is there some kind of reason that they would did not do it and you would. There's no like taxidermy code or anything is there. No I think I guess this may be your level of weirdness. My husband David wanted nothing to to do with it from the get-go he was like if you take this on. This is your project. One hundred percent. Let me know when it's in our beetle colony and let me know when it's done so don't go in there so if he would pick up the phone he would have said no so. I'm glad I did so. And you said within your colony what was that. We Use Dermot the Beatles to clean all of our skulls in bone material. So you put the arm in with them and they clean off all the flesh. Yes I was going to ask you to describe. Describe the arm without being too gruesome before you started. But we're already on gruesome territory. So what did the arm look like when you started the process. Wow you know I I was like Oh this is fine and as soon as I took it out of the bag and just just holding his arm is like Whoa okay. This is weird now. This is somebody who's armonk holding but it's you know it's it's it's just skin great so Putting it in it took a while because it was frozen I put it in frozen and unfortunately his hand was clenched fist. In due to me not knowing the bone structures to well in how to piece it back together I had to actually manipulate things as they. We're thawing so that I would know where things went so it was a lot of hands on and it Kinda got pretty gross for a little while but the Beatles take care of it so so fast but it's not my guess too gross but I guess that depends on the level of the person looking at it will be on two different anatomies there anything different about book cleaning a human bone from animal bones From from what I had experienced the Al.. You like you go through some different processes when you our Finishing a bone. Like when you take it from say meet in Hyde and everything being on a bone to win it star quite and clean like your bone carries as a lot of Greece in it from fat deposits and everything so we have to go through a process of decreasing it and there was a lot of degreasing I had to do. It actually shocked me. I had to do probably ten times more work on that than normal. Say A deer skull mark. Let me bring you back in. Did you know all of this before you started when when you handed the arm over that. That was what was involved. No I had no idea. I just thought you'd give it to the bugs and when they're done you back together so what was it like to see. Get hold it in your hand. Once you've got it back from Daniel. It's just what I wanted. It's exactly what I was expecting it to be. So where are you keeping it. I'll probably we just put a nail on the wall and hang it up like a picture. It's certainly now I keep it behind the sink. There's some flowers and plants and stuff so throwing just stuck it in a little jar. Wow Danielle what does it mean to you to hear whole happy. Mark is with the result. Oh It's pride all right you know you get you get something. That's so personal to someone and to have them receive back and be happy with the finished product and proud of it it just. Yeah it gives you a really good feeling of well. I Guess Pride of joy that you accomplish something that they were hoping to receive back of something so intimate to them. It's nice to hear your so happy with the final result with the decisions that you both made as well thank you very much and happy new year to the two of you to mark Holmgren Brin recently had his arm amputated and then Daniel Swift cleaned it and put it back together. Reach them both in Drayton Valley Alberta The name Monty Python means absolutely nothing. It is a made up name of one one nonexistent person except that there were six of them except but there was a seventh and his name was Neil Innes a man. One former colleague called quote the most talented but least ambitious man I ever met on quote. Neal a comedian songwriter known for his work with Monty Python. The bonzo so dog Duda band and the ruttles died on Sunday. He was seventy five years old in the seventy s Mr. Ns wrote sketches and music for Python most notably for the nineteen and seventy five film Monty Python and the Holy Grail and among his many talents. The UNAMBITIOUS MR. Ns had a knack for writing satirical songs and parodies of other people's music which led him to form the Beatles parody group the ruttles with fellow Python member. Eric idle the group recorded albums and released a mockumentary called the ruttles. All you need need is cash in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. Today Monty Python Star John cleese remembered Mr. Ns on twitter as quote a very sweet man. Much too nice for his own. Good Justin break is charged with mischief. But he says it was just journalism in two thousand sixteen gene before Mr Briggs joined a p t n he was covering indigenous protests at the Muskrat Falls Generating Station project in Labrador. The company had secured a court injunction in blocking protesters from entering the site but the protesters broke the lock went through the gate and began an occupation so Mr break took his camera and followed the protesters inside insight. Justin breaks lawyers have argued that he shouldn't be tried for doing his job as a reporter that earlier this month. A judge dismissed their application and gave the green-light for his trial to go ahead in January. We reached Justin break in Ottawa. Justin break what are you thinking and feeling now that you are seemingly Heading for trial It's unfortunate that this outstanding criminal charge has not been dropped but At this point I think I'm feeling more confident now than I than I was two years ago Facing all three charges you know vindicated by Newfoundland Labrador's highest court and also also with the support of all of my colleagues at APN journalistic and press freedom organizations and And you know basically three three three plus years now to reflect on the importance of the work that I did in the fall of two thousand sixteen in Labrador and the impact without his so the crown and says that you were engaged in mischief at Muskrat falls. What would you say? How do you describe what you were doing? They're covering a very important story It it was a it was a good ethical decision to make to to follow that story and cover it because the public had a right and they need to know what was going on ATM Muskrat falls at that time. So you know I kinda I stand by that decision and I don't. I do not believe what I did was a criminal. The other journalists covered that Muskrat falls occupation but they did it from outside the gates whereas you followed the protesters onto the property. Emmy me. Why did you decide that? You should challenge the court's injunction and join that occupation. Why didn't decide that? I should challenge the court's Injunction Junction That day I had to make a snap decision in a matter of seconds whether to stay with the story or abandon the story and cover it from outside the Ah you put it You know I did follow the story and others didn't follow the story that day but as soon as I was in there and had exclusive access to the story that's when CBC C. N. N. TV and others began reaching out to me to say. Hey we we actually need to know what's going on in there. Can you help us so so by virtue you of making that decision to go in. I was actually able to act in not only in primarily covering the story for the independent but also to help other media who who. We didn't make the same decision as I did. In those few seconds do you feel that the other journalists failed to do their jobs whereas you did. We are at a turning point in terms of the You know quote Unquote Era of reconciliation. And it's well document. That Canadian media have historically failed to adequately represent and cover for indigenous people and stories and I think that Probably because it was a unique and unexpected situation had media had more time to prepare or consider the pros and cons or potential ramifications are benefits of following that story. Maybe there would have been a different outcome in terms of other journalists following the story. So your work. Muskrat falls has been framed as embedding with the occupiers. But but some have described you as well as an activist journalist would would you think that's a fair assessment. I don't know what people mean when they say when they say that I'd want a definition of that term. And how would you define. I don't have the definition for it because it's not something that I consider myself I guess it would be more fair to say. I've been an advocate of press freedom in doing this but You know like I alluded to earlier. I mean we've for years Different various bodies observers have called on Canadian media do better in reporting reporting on indigenous issues. the wash inquiry. No journalist was present when Dudley George was shot in in Ontario You know the TRC Truth and Reconciliation Insulation Commission and it's called the actions calls for indigenous media to better support. It's these stories can be told and so. I don't think that the conversation necessarily should be asking thing at this point in time in two thousand nineteen why journalists Make decisions to do a better job of covering these types of stories. I think it should be incumbent on media who are not taking these types of decisions. Why they're not because we saw? We have three years to reflect on the Muskrat falls coverage that the independent did and we see that it'd probably provided an enormous ormuz public service because a counter narrative that was being constructed by Government Inc and by police. That in fact turned out to be not the complete complete picture. You mentioned earlier that to additional charges that you've been facing the crown dropped the criminal contempt charge and then the court of Appeal dismissed the civil. We'll charge so what is the reason that the crown has given for wanting to move ahead with this mischief charge. We're wondering the same as well. I mean they believe that they have the that it's in the public look interests. I mean this is known this is in court documents. So we know and they they have to believe or be able to argue that it's in the public interest to proceed with these charges. So they think it's in the public interest to uh pursue the criminal charge of mischief over five thousand dollars and they have to believe that they have a reasonable probability of conviction so to my understanding that means that an argument has to be made that my presence on the site as journalists impeded the I guess financial interests the Crown Corporation building. Damn what is it been like for you to continue your work with this thing hanging over your head. I mean it's been interesting. It's definitely Occupied occupied time and energy resources on my part but at the same time it has I think motivated me to pay more attention to the press freedom that I I think a lot of us. Journalists take for granted in Canada. And it's also created a dialog and conversation not only about press freedom but in the media's bowl and responsibilities of media have uncovering these types of story the Supreme Court of New Zealand labradors decision on the civil matter which came down earlier this year specifically cited a APTMA's Affidavit Karen Liaison former news director here who wrote Enough David in the intervene in my case and the judge we think for the first time in Canadian Indian history fight the reconciliation and the need the importance of media having to be present and bear witness than report on these types of events. So you know it's it's it's more than just about press freedom here. We're actually I think taking a step towards a better and more responsible media coverage of indigenous people an indigenous stories. All right just break. Thank you very much for talking with US locate. Thanks very much all right. bye-bye Justin break is a reporter with AP news the reached him in Ottawa. For Thirty Years Julie. Berman was an advocate for transgender rights. She she volunteered with. LGBTQ organizations in Toronto and spoke out about the rising violence and hate targeting the Trans Community in the city. Last week Ms Berman was killed. She was fifty one. Toronto Police have since charged a twenty nine year old man with second degree murder. His motive remains unclear. Nikki Ward is longtime sometime. Trans rights advocate. Who is friends with? Julie Berman and saw Ms Berman Struggle With homelessness addiction and mental illness. This morning Ms Ward spoke with Metro Morning Guest guest host Fara Morality about how she'll remember her friend Nicky. Tell us a bit. Julie Berman like most of us who have survived while she was scrappy had a very dark sense of humors. We will develop over time. I she was creative and Yeah I'm a survivor. Until of course she wasn't when you say she was a survivor. What do you mean? The life of most transfer payments is a life of many cases continual fear endanger violent death solitary poor nasty brutal and short and so those of us who survive This is an evolutionary process. Here the tough tough one survive and the ones who aren't so tough don't sad sad reality and Julia was very tough but not invincible. And our life wasn't easy she had been going through who Quite a bit over the past few years. Tell me about that. Well look the climate today for Trans People is is not a bed of roses by any means. In the past six six months we have seen a massive increase in casual violence against Trans Women and against The vulnerable groups in the past six months weakening the church wealthy area we've had Professors say that we shouldn't exist lecturers twenty public library saying that. We aren't real women. We've had religious extremists march on Church. Wealthy area the Trans Memorial has being vandalized. We've had swastikas on the crosswalks. And that's the climate we all live including Julie. It's not surprising Short it's not surprising that that that situation mental health suffers in addiction. Comes along with it in so poverty is the number one issue We really are living in or on underclass pass whom the city of Toronto in the facebook post the you'd wrote talking about Jew leave. You said that you were angry about the way that Julie's death was covered in the media particularly that you didn't see any trans women commenting on our death. Why did that make you angry? There's a tendency in on institutions speaking specifically of and by the way. Thank you very much. For being the exception that proves the rule here I greatly appreciate that but institutions tend to modify our tragedy and use it as an opportunity to fundraise instead of to raise awareness. And so it's terribly important that we have Trans Women talking about Trans thinks not after the fact but before the fact that the policy oh see level so A large number of people were contacted. who were at night the Trans Nor Trans Women There were people who cannot speak authoritatively or even on an informed basis about it so it was very very distressing and of course Yeah that didn't play well with the Trans Community. Transfer women didn't play well with poor Julie's family we're dealing with just the horror of this loss. Toronto Trans Rights Advocate Nikki Ward. Speaking with Metro morning guest host far morality about her friend. Julie Berman Berman was killed last Sunday. She was fifty one Frosty st the snowman was a fairy tale. They say but he was made entirely of snow. He wasn't just a hollow shell with a bunch of snow slapped on a weird the cat. If he had been well imagine our collective disappointment it would be like the disappointment. Visitors to the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto. Felt this this summer the X. as it's called is known for its carnival rides. It's wild and or disgusting. Food and its annual display of butter sculptures giant blocks of butter showcased inside a glass refrigerator carved into extraordinary things but a photograph posted on twitter last summer seemed to shatter that illusion and Torontonians were outraged. The photo showed a sculptor slapping butter on top of giant dinosaur model the visitor visitor to the X.. Who captured that image tweeted today? I learned the butter sculptures at the X.. are just pieces of plastic covered in butter back in August when Helen was guest hosting she spoke with Rebecca Hall at the butter sculpture featured in that photograph. It's one of our favorite interviews of Twenty Nineteen Rebecca Rebecca Hall at. We've described this photo for our listeners. But can you tell us what's actually going on in it from your perspective so this photograph is of me sculpting and the Butter Fridge I'm almost done for the day sculpting and working on peace and it's actually funny because I'm covering my armature which is the skeleton of my work to hold it up with butter and it's actually a photo right before disaster happens where the whole Sculpture actually comes falling down Ono. The person who posted the photo on twitter is suggesting that butter sculptures are not solid butter but but pieces of plastic covered in butter. I guess that's because of of the form that you were using I guess so I'm it isn't plastic. It's it's actually just some foam home from home depot to be honest And I actually ended up Building the foam part for the dinosaur As has an armature to go and keep it up and Yeah No. It's it's funny because a lot of people are are going crazy over it and saying oh my gosh it's it's not all all at thought here but That's kind of almost every butter sculpture. Does almost every piece has something in it again. We think maybe the way people curve you know hard piece of marble or or carve ice that it's like a solid block that you kind of just chip away ad. Does it ever work like that. Not Really A lot of sculptures. You know we're going really dynamic with their sculptures. Now we're going bigger and we're getting much more Larger larger with our scale and a lot of the pieces have a lot of hanging overhangs. You know large arms or very tall sculptures and we need something to support that. Let's ice holds itself up but unfortunately butter you know if you've ever smeared butter on your toast. You know what it's like. It has no real form to it so so a lot of sculptures unless they're very small are usually filled with something in it and they didn't have something what a styrofoam or plastic or whatever ever day would fall apart absolutely It's already happened a couple of times in the fridge I've actually sculpted one sculpture before stirred started on the raptor We were asked by the Seaney And Fan Expo to do peace and we did the Infinity Gauntlet and it's almost also also butter with the exception of the sun because some just kept falling off we ended up actually putting a couple of chopsticks in it to go and hold it. 'cause we're working against gravity and gravity but he just wants to pull the butter down and clearly it does sometimes because you said the thing did collapse on you. Yeah it collapsed on me. The person working next to me her sculpture clap laps. Even though it had wood dowels in it. It's got plumbing pieces in it. It fell down. You don't actually realize how big these things are until you come and see it in real life yeah. How many pounds of butter are we talking about? Say for this raptor it is three hundred pounds and gravity just early wants to pull it down so used foam. It was funny you you mentioned how this seems to have really blown away. Many people in Toronto that that this is not what they suspected it was having this. Form inside at some of the tweets Sir. That's honestly heartbreaking. I blame capitalism. There goes my last remaining reason to visit the X.. A travesty and a colossal waste of butter you know. People are pretty outraged. Yeah yeah it. It really surprised me because it was funny. The sculpture next to me. It's an and Ville with the roadrunner on top of it. It had a pipe sticking out of it for a good two days. Maybe the reason people notice mine more was because it's purple so it sticks so it more but it definitely hasn't been the first year that I have gone questions you know. Oh my gosh that's cheating or you know why are you doing not and then as soon as we explain it a lot of people are like oh right Bader it's mushy. It doesn't have a forum you know. It's not rigid like you said with ice or marble it it sounds like this is a pretty frustrating material to work with. Oh Gosh It is so much she Especially for us Warm butter cutters sometimes to go build on armature and it just it plops down. You know it's very difficult to work with one it's hard. It's so hard that sometimes we breaker acre tools trying to carpet into it. So it's it's not the easiest medium like we all love working in butter otherwise we wouldn't be here and we just we love the material. It's so unusual. You know it's definitely a harder material to work with but we really love it. What do you want to say to those people who feel maybe a little crushed spy the reality of the fact that you're not dealing with solid butter here? I think people just need to look more closely at the other sculptures unrealized. But it's been this way as long as I've sculpted or the other sculptors sculpted it's always been there and maybe people just didn't notice it before someone didn't pointed pointed out before but it's still a lot of butter Including my sculpture. It's only ten percent armature. It's like ninety percent butter so it really is still a butter sculpture. We're just using the armature just to go and help us oaten you know. Help US along and get it done and but for the most part it is Butter don't worry and yes it is better. It's not margarine. I swear I would think that'd be even slippery and harder to mold. Look Rebecca. I really appreciate appreciate you sharing the secrets of your craft with us. Thank you so much. Okay bye bye. Rebecca Hall is a butter sculptor at the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto. We reached her there this August when she spoke with Helen who was guest hosting and to see that infamous photograph of her butter sculpture. Go to our website. CBC DOT CA Okay Slash Ai. H It has been the year of gratitude. Burke Greg the sixteen year old Swedish climate activists started a movement that inspired millions to join protests worldwide. She traveled across the Atlantic Ocean on a very uncomfortable. herbals zero emission sailboat twice. And for all of that. She was named Time Magazine's person of the year after which he was attacked on twitter by the president of the United States but her father miss timber still a young woman and allowing her to be in. The spotlight was a hard decision sponsor. Tune Berg spoke about his fears for his daughter on today's episode of BBC Radio Four's Today program which Greta guest edited. Why she decided to do this? We Re said quite clearly that we would not know supported supported. Why did you say that? Obviously we thought it was a bad idea putting yourself out there with all the hate on social media media and and you know just the idea of your own daughter sort of putting yourself at the very line of of of such a huge question like climate change so. It's not that you have pushed her to do this. Because that question often get cells to the public it was Dell's Tamalada where the heck was pushing this. You haven't pushed her to this new On the contrary we said okay. If you're going to do it then you're going to have to do it by self you'll I'll have to be incredibly well pat. You have to have all the answers to the questions. She says okay. Whatever the journalists came along she she would all through all the questions and that was surprising thing because she didn't speak to anyone at the time she has asked purchase? Yes yes spirit. She had also come quite l. with depression. Your much earlier like three or four years before she went on on the school strikes. She are fell ill and she stopped talking. She stopped eating and all these things she stopped going to school. She's basically home for a year as she didn't eat for three months of two and a half months. Which of course was the ultimate nightmare as a parent? You have food aid. Eat Food to survive and your child colleges the. Is there ever moment where you think. I would just like us to go back to being an ordinary family family before all of this began or do you have the same sense of purpose that she does but I can see Greta very happy from doing this and I saw what she would before. I mean she didn't speak to a single person. She could only eat in their own home. She went on to school strike and I think they three some came along against her like peptide. Hi Vegan as she ate it that was like I cannot believe I cannot explain how much that would change. That meant to her and to us and it was just like she changed. That was fun to tune Berg. Greta tune Berg's father speaking with the BBC's Michelle Hussein I don't know if you're one to make resolutions at this time of year. But if you are you no doubt appreciate as I do that. There are a lot easier to make than they are to keep. You often hear that you should be realistic in choosing goals else. That being overly ambitious is a recipe for failure. Suffice it to say that as advice Michael Berg did not heed and it wasn't even new years when he resolved to do what many of us would consider impossible to forgive his son's killer. It was June two thousand six. When as it happens I spoke with Mr Burg after news? News broke that Abu Musab el-zari then the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq had been killed just two years earlier. Mr Berg's son Nicholas suffered a grisly death at the hands of Al Qaeda. After he was captured while working as a contractor in Iraq the man believed to have carried out his execution was Mr Elder Cowie. Given that add Michael Berg's reaction to the death of his sons tormentor was surprising to say the least. He said he forgave him. Here's a little of what he told as it happens. Well my reaction was human reaction up sadness at the death of any fellow human being and there are people that love him and they're people that are are now suffering in the same vein like family and I Have suffered I cannot and I will not ever justify revenge because that would just the find my son's staff Mr Berg's resolve to forgive. His son's killer sparked outrage across the US he faced death threats and was even shot at but a Canadian. singer-songwriter named Peter Cats heard Mr Berg. Speaking on as it happens that night in June as he was driving his car and he was so moved by the interview that he immediately uh-huh pulled over and began to write down. Some of what Mr Berg was saying. It was the beginning of a song that Peter Cats called forgiveness not to mention a lifelong friendship with Michael Berg last year. The two men Joint Carol on as it happens to speak about how Michael Berg's resolution to forgive had transformed both their lives. Mr Katz was in the studio here in Toronto. and Mr Berg was in a studio in Norfolk Virginia. Here again is their conversation. Hello Michael Hello and Hello Peter here in the studio with me. Hello extraordinaire having both of you together to yes. I Mike I want to start with you because because we heard some of your voice from that interview in two thousand and six in the introduction and This is not long after you forgave your son's killer someone who is a brutal murder if your son and You said that you realized it was a response. Nobody wanted to hear what. What did you mean by that? Well people try to talk me out of it I think later that same day of that original interview Larry King interviewed me by telephone and he kept saying well. Come on Michael This guy and then he would be a lot more blunt than I would have wished them today. A about what what he did and it seemed like he just couldn't accept the fact that really is if he was accusing me of lying and there was a lot of media coverage right and not does that. There are a lot of people who responded to us. People say horrible things to you people in your face showing you photos Ddos an images and big banners of your of your sons murder and just so angry with you. Someone took a shot at. He'll use a bullet through a window at one in pointed it was just extraordinary. Yes it was. That's it was. And how did you deal with that at the time To tell you the truth I I think I was still pretty much living on adrenaline and As Peter said in an song I felt like guy had nothing left to lose So I'm not normally is maybe Brave or foolhardy as I was as far as exposing myself to you know to possible dangers back. Then you called yourself. You said I'm I'm an nothing left to lose club. I think you said in iron review right right well there are a lot of us Back in the day I was I know a lot of people who had lost children in the war and That's what we call it ourselves roles but you you came to this point of forgiving Kylie not immediately. This is something that was a process took some some months about half a year and you describing that to us when we spoke to you two thousand six. I just WanNa play a bit of what you said at that time after submit that it took a little bit of time I never once asked for revenge against him. Because I knew that that was wrong. needlepoint son would say that. That was wrong on But it took me a while About a half a year I think before I came to the point where I can honestly say. I forgave him one day. I opened up a Catalogue that came in the mail that offered a course at nearby Imaculada University That was entitled forgiveness the way to love and a wounded world. I thought you know I'm not a Catholic. I'm not a Christian Not even a very good job or even much of anything but I have to take that course and I took that course and I've learned what forgiveness is all about listening two thousand and six Michael. What did that cost? Teach you about forgiveness. Well I think one of the biggest things that taught me was that to forgive. Someone is not to condone what they did. I certainly don't condone what what did but it's basically I I I would say in her not to hate and negatives process The sister sister Shila Galligan. Who taught that core set? IMACULADA said Forgiveness light quitting cigarettes. Sometimes you have have to do it over and over again. So it's you know it's it is a process and shakers just so great and presenting things in such a way that anybody could could accept them and explaining the nuances of the the differences between condoning and forgiving and and other things that people are often confused and ultimately forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't for the person being forgiven. It's for the person who's doing the forgiving and it. It changed my outlook on life. In in general on my relations with people especially people close to me and it's still a tremendous factor in my life the fair to say that that course change the course of your life. It certainly did. That's very fair to say and Peter. I I think it's safe to say that Interview Michael's words changed your life. Didn't it yeah they did. I just got a Muslim just listening to to it again and I mean just listening to it in today's Times Twelve years later and realizing that that message is still more important than ever And at the time I I was listening to Michael and as I was listening to this interview I I just wasn't expecting the way that it was going to unfold and the reaction that he was describing. And as you when I found out later in the interview that people call him a coward and had shot at him I just said I said hang on a second the the message that this man is saying is the most courageous brave choice. I've ever heard somebody ever make and it felt like the antidote wrote to this escalating hatred. That was was happening in the world and just listening to it again today. I'm just like it's still the answer it's still remains is the answer. It's still remains more important than ever so. Remember the details the situation in which you listen to Michael This interview I was. I was driving along in my car and and Canadian musicians been a lot of time driving across Canada lot of timeless in CBC. And and I would always listen to as it happens and and you know it's just one of those things that's on and you're listening to it and you're taking it in but it's one of those interviews that I just kind of zeroed in on as I clued into what was being said and and to me. The part that I was very moved by Michael's reaction in and of itself I was very unexpected reaction. But what really kind of jolted into action was was the fact that you you don't like I said that people shot at him and called him a coward and just put him through even more hell than than I have a son. I don't know what it's like like to lose one let alone under the circumstances that Michael Lost Nick So when I found out that people were doing that to him just said that to me is just just unconscionable and I need to do something about that and and I need to somehow amplify his message and the you know the context of it was you know Houser Cowie was this targeted forget and they were like. Hey we got him and Yay victory You know mission accomplished that kind of lingo and you know they were using I mean I. I don't want to speak for Michael on this. But they were using nick in the murder of Eleazar Cowie as as a reason to justify what they were doing revenge. Yeah and the lyrics of your song. I'm just going to read the chorus and then we're going to hear it later on so people know there are not going to miss that so I guess I'm going to have to try forgiveness because men so you know that's all that I've got left. My boy did not deserve this but neither do the rest. I guess I'm going to have to try forgiveness how. How did those words come to you? Those words came to me right away. I think I pulled over and wrote down those words and then as is often the case for me with in writing I I kinda have the initial thing and then I knew I needed just be with it because sometimes the surface reaction is is not deep enough. I I immediately just care about so deeply and I and I knew that I was going to be singing in Michael's voice so I wanted to do it properly It wasn't just about channeling. Melling my own feelings about it. I really wanted to amplify his voice. That was the goal so I wrote those words down and then I actually ended up seeking out a copy of the interview that you guys had done and I transcribed it. I'm just so I could kind of practice putting words together in the way that Michael put words together other and really then just kind of work from there and see very carefully. Put it together and Michael Whe- When you first heard the song. What was your reaction I was I was overcome. Totally overcome that in light of all the negative reactions. I had that someone would have such an understanding of what I meant and and be so kind and so Generous in in his respect just overcame. That still does every time I hear it. It to of you became friends didn't you. What was the friendship based on was at this moment it didn't do? Did you find you. You took too deep replace Luke who was a Knicks Knicks. Best friend organized a concert and they created a scholarship scholarship in nickname. They called it Burger Palooza and and and the Invited me down to come perform at that concert. And so I went went down to West Chester Pennsylvania and I. I stayed in a guest room at Luke's house where he told me that nick would have spent much time time. And and then we did this concert and I got to Michael. We went for a coffee together in the afternoon. And then I played this concert and I stood on a stage in my view or Knicks friends and family and teachers and Michael and I got to play this song and I my whole body shaking just thinking about that moment and how touched I felt to be able to do that in and contribute in that way and then several years in a Roy went down and did that and and then Michael and I were also invited to give a symposium on forgiveness at a college in Philadelphia in two thousand twelve and we've got to spend even more time together then. I remember going for a long walk together in a park in just just so enjoying our time together. I think this I believe a generation. Difference isn't there would be closer to nick's age Yeah Yeah I'm in my mid thirty so I guess about the same Nick Goodwin. Is that right. Michael Vick would be forty. Okay so pretty clear skies younger. Yeah speaking singer Songwriter. Peter Katz who wrote a song called forgiveness inspired by an interview on as it happens with Michael Berg Man was on the other line from Norfolk Virginia. Is someone someone who forgave his son's killer in Iraq and I I think we need to hear this song. I think at this point and so I'm going to ask you to play for. ESPN absolutely Smith to explain. It does everything nothing To say some things they happen and once they do within of a way the tell you that this life is I- uh manual. After that so I will not stoke the fire of this fate when I get some GonNa try forgiveness uh-huh because many know it saw I've got a but boy did not deserve but now get some true Call me a coward. Komi every once could hurt me now have nothing to go on Spike macos. I will not curse his name. Uh Broken play. But I won't participate. You know this So I guess try forgiving in many. No it saw I've got landlord did not deserve sir Oh they shut me for speaking up against this tired. Whoa not man one more do a simian hello? There ain't nothing that just a fire and I know here before you Livin note the horace listed still swear the only answer forgiveness. I'm nasty forgiveness forgiven. Give them a traff given. Ah Ah girls or watch a he put us to the Komo. Let's show them forgiveness not The show Forgive Spare to say there is not a dry eye in host here like. I don't know you're dealing with that. It's a very moving very very moving. Peter has a real talent at touching on immersion. I think he has talent feeling it. There's a depth to that that's Yeah can only come from an inspiration Michael on that and you were the inspiration. What to say to my When I heard your voice on the radio that day I just I just I? I felt like you're one of the rapist. People that I I've ever heard and it's been such a pleasure to get to know you. I'm calling my friend and I really just feel I feel honored that I get to be of service to your message and it might career. That was the very very beginning of me as a singer songwriter. And kind of testing the waters and and that song really was the the affirmation that I needed the confirmation nation that I needed that there was a place for my voice so it's also changed my life In in many ways you gave me hope for the human race because as I said before so much of the reaction was was very very negative and On that day that Circolo died the interview with. CVC was the only one that was not adversarial. Ariel your reaction has to be the the most positive reaction. I ever got to anything anything I I said. And you and you you did it with such emotion and love. I mean you can just feel it through the words in your the voice. What do you think your son Nicholas was income of all these developments from the song? Our conversation always how would he respond. Well I don't I don't know because he was very modest and shy in a way person and he He probably wouldn't like all the publicity or people all saying good things about him. I guess I mean he was just that kind of person and his political views for very different from mine but I think I said this neighbor the original interview in our he wants poll. May that Although our views were different he was proud of me for getting out expressing mine Loyd was of him for doing what he believed in. Peter I can tell you. Have you want to say to Michaeline just ask you you. When have the last word here? Yeah I just wanted to to say to you my column you know that I I. I wish I could have gotten to know nick but I feel like at the son of of somebody I know that he would be he really proud of of you and what you've done and I'm really proud of you and and I also want you to know Michael that I I don't see a you as a as a God figure something and I've appreciated that you haven't tried to paint yourself as anything other than a human being. You've always made me feel like this is the real thing. It doesn't take other worldly powers to be able to make a choice like you made. It just takes that tapping into your humanity and doing the hard thing. Your your message of forgiveness has helped me through the last twelve years in an immense way and that moment of hearing your voice on the radio that day and writing that song just fundamentally onto mentally changed my life in a huge way so thank you deserve all the success that you've had were that That could have been not walk and was a hiccup park that are took. That would have been great. I admire both of you and I appreciate so much to Have a chance to speak with you. Have you both together. Thank you both. You're welcome bye Michael by Peter. Toronto based singer Songwriter Peter Cats and activist Michael Berg speaking with Carol last year. And we've reposted that interview to our website at CBC dot Ca Slash Aih there Radley clumsy and bulky but some of them are Jerry and those are the ones rob fowler color covets while the rest of us are throwing out old VHS tapes. Mr Keller wants all of them with one caveat they have to be VHS tapes of the movie. Jerry Jerry Maguire over the years the Vancouver man and his friends of collected more than four hundred fifty copies of the Nineteen Ninety six movie for a Los Angeles art collective called hauled. Everything is terrible. The group is planning to build a pyramid out of all those VHS copies of that movie. Mr Keller is the leading collector of Jerry Maguire tapes in Canada and in September. He told Carol why he had taken on the challenge. It's one of our favorite interviews of the year. Rob What inspired you to collect all out of these copies of the Jerry Maguire film while. I can't say that I did this alone. I went to a performance of everything is terrible in Chicago about nine nine years ago. And then they had a donation box for Jerry Maguire's and I didn't know what all this was about so I went online and I saw that they were looking to build build a pyramid in the desert. And I thought how can I get in on this so with some big ing with some help from friends started collecting and gave copies to these guys. So far how many they have they collected this point with with your health there at twenty seven thousand and with my health they've They've got four hundred fifty eight of my copies as of right now. Where are you finding them? So I've depleted most of Vancouver's inventory. I think just over the years so these days we're doing road trips. We hit a I. Adore is church. Rummage sales Grandparents basements are always a source and it hit any kind of gold mine in it particulars fifth shop up. You know what I did. Find One and I spoke with the lady there and she used all of her connections was able to get your sixty copies. How much time do you spend doing this? Probably too much time. It started Kinda like a hobby. And then you know it's the thrill of the Turkey till like tiny adorable Obsession sessions say and now you sharing this at anybody else are you doing. Are you a lone wolf series. A small group of US I guess. The unofficial official ringleader of the GERRYMANDERS. I guess you'd call us. And so who who else is in your group I were and how did you recruit them well. It's not something that you share. You know with a lot of people you get. These weird blank scares totally justified. So it's just some close friends and those close friends. It seems like everyone knows someone that had jerry at some point. You know there's thirty million people In Canada and I think probably more than half of US own. VHS copy of this match film. At some appoint. I don't really have to look hard for them. They kind of find me. Why do you think there are so many copies? VHS copies j McGuire there. Oh I think it's one of the last films was that was a giant blockbuster hit before. DVD's kind of took over so this is like the last boone vhs when everyone had to have a copy and then they just kind of went the way of the land so after about six months of being sale all right speaking of going the way of the landfill so these ones did not go to landfill. What is this tells about this collective everything is terrible arable which has which is initiated all this collection? So it's a group of video editors from Chicago and what they would do is they would go to obscure replaces trying to find a Weirdo. VHS tapes they would take them a slice them together and make a full length feature films and what they found is when they were looking looking for these videotapes. They always come across Jerry. Maguire's again it's one of those popular films. Everyone Kinda donated after about a year so they felt bad about these Jerry's You know being alone uniform. They started grabbing. All those copies to and and you know before they knew what they were at ten thousand fifteen thousand. I yeah this. Whoa this idea of the pyramid is that? When did that come about building a pyramid Jerry Maguire tapes so I think we've been toying with that idea for a few years? I think initially they were looking to build. Ah Thrown of Jerry Maguire's and did that I think two thousand fourteen I call it a pyramid scheme. they're trying to build gigantic thing in the desert. Initially I was hoping they were doing stairway to heaven but I think this is. This is a much better way to go. It's kind of like that. Show the hundred thousand dollar pyramid except this is like bigger and I do. Do you think you've reached peak. Jerry at this point do you think is actually more out there to be had. Oh I think we're just beginning. You know there's I've according to them My little group is the biggest collector in Canada. And we're only four hundred fifty eight copies. I know there's more out there. So what's in it for you It it's it's it's just part of this. You know pop culture garbage thing just to be able to say I contributed to this gigantic. Waste of time. It's really nice. Let's be recognized for excellence in my field and I think that this is probably one of the things I'm best at. Where are you storing? All of these films well Much to the Chagrin of my husband and they're all getting the kitchen we're blessed with a lot of storage space above our cabinet. So they're all on display their instead of building a pyramid in the desert. Maybe you can make furniture furniture out of them. My own Jerry trump. Yeah I think that's a great idea. What do you think of the Jerry? Maguire movie This is I've actually not seen it. I here's a great film and of course you know memorized the front of VHS box in front back It it it says right on the box. It's a great film so you know I don't doubt that at some point in Sherman. Sit Down and watch it. I've got other things in my My Cue right right now. So you a guy who could actually see Jerry Maguire copy of VHS from a mile away you could spot and yet you've never watched the movie I have. I have not watched the movie audit trail. Yes I'm sure I'm sure it's riveting but there are a lot of people who don't like the movies maybe it's fitting that it should go to. Everything is terrible well for me. If they don't like it please send their copying directly to me. Okay Rob we'll put the word out. Okay thanks so much thanks bye bye bye from September. That was rob feller speaking with Carol about his collection of Jerry Maguire. VHS tapes the art collective everything is terrible is still working towards building building. It's Jerry Maguire. VHS Pyramid you've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. CBC Radio One following the world at six you can also listen to the whole show on the web just go to CBC DOT CA Jason Slash. Ah and follow the links to our online archived. Thank you for listening. I'm Helen them and I'm Chris. How and for more C._B._C.? PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
Episode 048 - Cross Country Check-Up (Please Don't Sue Us, CBC)
"So you're you're sound comes through great. I mean you might still have the issue. Obviously like you've always said about but at least we can hear them. Welcome back to politics. Canadian issues served which skirts. My Name's Adam. My name is Mike. It's been a few weeks since Mike and I have actually had the opportunity to sit down and record a new episode so I figured we do a little bit of an update of what's been going on around the country because there's been some things happening obviously the covert nineteen. Shutdown is still a thing and a lot of places although there's some provinces that are starting to open up I didn't feel like I was Gonna Linger on that stuff because Businesses are opening up. That's good but yes. We need to be careful because we don't want to get shut down again. Though businesses that are opening up right. Now don't WanNa get shut down again so we just need to be smart about about how reading things so instead of looking at. Oh well New Brunswick's doing this and sketch wins doing this on doing this. So we're going to start from the left coast. We're GONNA start with British Columbia now. I decided not to folk it with British Columbia. I decided not to focus on any of the covert news Because they're doing quite well and I figure okay. I think most people know that they're doing quite well. What I did decide what I did. Find though I believe it was over. This past week was that the Vancouver City Council voted and approved a seven percent property tax hike for twenty twenty. Why why because they have? They're going to have a big budget. Shortfall Nowhere. Oh yeah considering this is something. Apparently they just voted on relatively recently seven percent average property tax hike for twenty twenty. So I if you compare. I did a few comparisons. Okay for for the comparison to show. How much of a difference this is so in. The last three years here was here was the property tax hikes in those three years. Three point nine percent four point two four percent and four point five percent so in one year they went from a four and a half percent property tax. Jump to seven percent property tax. Jump well just on part of course for them being tax. I don't know why the taxes so all right home and then cougars an infant. Well of awesome that I haven't even explored yet okay. Well let's go hold on though. I have even more comparisons Toronto. Their property tax jump for twenty twenty is four and a quarter and Montreal is two point one percent now when you say that property tax jump like is that the increase in how much. They're actually taxing the amount of money that they're bringing in not the amount that they're they're taxing per property so for So in this case with the seven percent increase. It's not going to sound like a lot when I say it but I mean it depends on the person so for every thousand dollars of property tax that you pay your property. Tax will be seventy dollars higher than it was last year. Okay so did it is so well then is not as bad because if you look at will the weird part about it is the okay so So this so if you look at it from San Point of yet your taxes going in but oftentimes a law these places their property values gone up exponentially to right So the property taxes don't actually reflect that property value up. I guess yes like you have to think on -Tario as well. We have the whole impact assessment situation. Right so in that case you know. Your property gets assessed at a certain value. And they're like okay. We're going to increase the property value to that over the next four years so the thing is is that not only do you pay an increased property tax amount each year that the value of the property goes up based on the impact assessment. But you also get the increase that the city has voted on. So you're kinda getting you kind of getting a double increase. But you're getting two different levels to the increase in because you're getting an increase to the value of the property which gets taxed based on the mill rate. And then you get the increase that your municipalities voted on bray so in this case like a let's say especially in Vancouver where properties have been stupid. You know some of these properties that are selling for multi million dollars that you know look worse than my house. Is You know it? It's like a a not only if the property tax assessment has been increasing to catch up with what property sales have been like and they get the seven percent property tax hike in one year. Know that could be. That could be pretty substantial for the for the wrong people for sure. I don't. I don't feel bad for all of those people that own empty properties. But I do I do feel bad for you. Know the people that actually live there All right so then to go along with that very quickly in same vein Of Obviously Vancouver is struggling for money. the budget for the police department is also being cut by three and a half million dollars Which when I looked at what their budget is is not a lot. It's like one percent But it was closed it was it was cut in a closed door meeting of the finance committee so it wasn't even voted on police department wasn't aware of it. It was just oh by the way. We're taking this money out of your budget music. Good job guys all right. Alberta our friends our friends in the U. CPI are Are Up in arms. Because the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund has decided to divest from certain companies that are operating in the Canadian oil sands those companies include imperial oil Canadian Natural Resources suncorp and Sonoma's and of course Jason Kenney got mad and had during one of his press conferences had to say that Norway's a bunch of hypocrites because they're divesting from Canadian oil but they're They're exploring new oil resources. Offshore and Blah Blah Blah Blah. This and that. And when you read the actual release in not not directly from the fund themselves but from other maybe not quite as biased news sources as a UC press conference. You find out that they're divesting from oil oil and gas companies that don't have a renewable sector as part of their business. Oh so it's not that they're doing it from Alberta they're doing it because of Bertha's policies pretty much so for instance The the fund still has investments with a BP and with Shell but those are two businesses that while they are in the oil and gas sector also have renewables Renewables part of their business. Now the other reason why I wanted to dig into this a little bit further is because we can do an actual comparison of how well this Norwegian Fund has been doing in comparison to Alberta's Fund because surprise surprise. They both have something very similar so the Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund is is a pension fund. So money from money. From non-renewable resources gets invested into this fund and it gets in pro in real estate in stocks and bonds in in. You know things that you can get in right. Norway created this idea of created the fund back in Nineteen Ninety and they made their first deposit into the fund in Nineteen Ninety six so twenty four twenty four years. This thing has been around its value at the end of twenty nineteen was one point two trillion dollars. Us As a comparison the BERTA Heritage Savings Trust Fund which we've talked about before which was which was established in nineteen seventy six. I th the first deposits to that fund also happened at the same time the guidelines behind. That was that thirty percent of non renewable resource revenue was going to go into this fund. So what was it worth at the end of two thousand nineteen? I have no idea. Eighteen billion dollars so for a fund that has been around almost twice as long as the one for Norway and it is worth almost one one hundred of the Norwegian Fund. Listen it's not because they've had issues where they've taken losses through corporations or anything like that. That's not the reason why is not because they've had scandal after scandal. That's not the reason why it's because of Superior Management From Progressive Right Wing parties in Alberta. That's why yes well to wait. No that's not really no I was GONNA say Considering the fact that there was also a story that came out sometime in the last few weeks where the The managers at the Alberta Heritage Fund or or I guess it was the Berta Investment Management Co Corporation or something like that It's called ANCO. They they lost. Apparently they lost four point. Four billion dollars on a on a risky deal. Yeah Yeah I heard about that with Escaped all boys. That's right they didn't bail out They didn't oil company from having to pay the money that they're that's not what they did. No No of course not I mean you know when you look at it when you look at the information in regards to the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund. They do say well. The money goes towards healthcare and towards education. And things like that. It's like well. I don't think it's doing that right now. Considering considering how public the cuts to education and health care and things like that have been in the last couple of years in Alberta Something tells me that the money from that fund is really not going towards those things exactly and even still I mean guys. This thing has been around for forty five years almost and it's only worth eighteen billion dollars and Norway was able to build a value of over a trillion dollars In half the time exactly Let me see The British the Ministry of Health continues to attack to attack. Doctors Jaw. How I mean I know exactly why Jason Kenney but like any other politician that would do something as outlandish as what that guy did. would be forced to resign or be fired already gave the answer. I'm not kidding. But like how his other politicians and don't mean Like not only obviously. He's been furious about this but like I'm talking about Andrew Scheer and with is running for the PC leadership Or anyone else at side of anybody Liberal Party. Just like the federals discount. This person needs to be fired. Like you can't have this this. It's so fundamentally crazy that this before in like nothing. Nothing yeah well. That's that's that's just the way it is right that's just the way it is so subscription so scheduling was one of the first provinces to start reopening businesses. So good for Scotch went They've they've had relatively low numbers of cases of Ovid nineteen however Saskatchewan just recently reported their first case of the Hantavirus for twenty twenty. The what the Hantavirus take that. One hundred viruses. No Oh then. I heard that I have heard of it before. So anyone who comes into contact with rodents carry Hanta virus risk of hps rodent infestation. In and around the home remains the primary risk for hantavirus exposure. Even healthy individuals are at risk for infection if exposed to the virus. So watch over mice and mouse droppings and nests and things like that Don't get bit by one because it might not just be a It might not just be rabies that you have to worry about God damn now. Apparently apparently from reading the article I did about it. I think it's over the last twenty years. There's only been like thirty five cases of it in the province so again it's not. It's not like this is a major thing but I thought it was just you know I'm going through scheduling. I'm really not finding anything and then I found that article. I'm like this. This is what I'm talking about. So in the midst in the midst of a pandemic they've got another virus that's about to take off and it's like well no it's not really gonNA take off but whatever and I WANNA say while we're here. I want to say mistake that I made with. Other cornel buyers wasn't that was wrong about numbers like that. I was wrong about how contagious it was right. Which is why you should talk to an expert about things like this yes. I'm not an epidemiologist. I'd never studied it i. I should have been more cautious about what I was saying because I didn't I hadn't done the research now. I BELIEVE. I preface that. But I still should have been more cautious fair enough just like now. We both will say the chances that I know of with the Hanta virus. That what we're calling it pretty low for contentiousness but yes because I was actually on the. I'm actually on the health. Canada website right now and it does say with the exception of the Andes. Hanta virus which I imagine is only specific to the Andes region of South America The virus does not spread through human person to person contact so okay so it can only be transmitted from mouse to human as opposed to a human through you ever do you. WanNa do you WanNa know how you can get it so now okay anyways you can inhale you can inhale virus particles from rodent urine droppings saliva. Okay this can happen when rodent waste is stirred up from vacuuming or sweeping I touch objects or eat food contaminated with the urine droppings or saliva of infected rodents or bitten by a rodent infected with the hantavirus although apparently being bitten rodent infected is very rare. Yeah because you can and by a mouse so exactly so. Just don't don't eat anything that's GOT MOUSE P on it. That's all Manitoba Okay so I don't know I couldn't I there's probably stuff going on in Manitoba. I couldn't find anything relatively interesting so All I covered there was that as of May Fifteenth. They had gone four days with no new cases. Good job good job all right. Good Job Manitoba. Now I'm going to skip Ontario for now as you've noticed I've been coming from the West Coast but I'm asking for now because it's where we live and there's a little more to talk about Quebec going to release a budget update two months after their original budget was released They are expecting now that instead of having a budget surplus as they had originally determined before cove nineteen that they will have a deficit this year for of somewhere between twelve to fifteen billion dollars And it may go more than that par for the course understandable. No one's GONNA. I'm not whole their fire for this one that's right exactly And then was elementary schools and daycares and things like that. We're supposed to be opening in Quebec or are supposed to be opening in Quebec. I believe this coming week So I think it's after the Victoria Day holiday but as it stands right now. They are delaying it for at least a week in the Montreal area and it's possible that they could delay it a little longer because based on current public health projections Based on opening Opening up everything the way that they're planning on The models are showing that they could experience a high up to one hundred fifty Deaths per day from covert nineteen by July if they don't continue with their isolation measures as they are less. I have a seven year old. I've eleven-year-old I know how hard it has been for my seven year old to understand that she can't just hug everyone that she sees so to speak. So like I've had we've had the social distant family visits. Where like my family's come over They'RE IN THEIR CAR. And my daughter wants to go up and hug them because she always ducts. Is that type of kid? I'm sorry you're just not going to get these kids to not transmit the just don't have the awareness or understanding to not trump's disease so opening schools is catastrophically. Bad idea. You putting people does matter if their kids are not it? Worst with kids. But you're putting people in such small confined quarters all it takes us one kit to bring you to that school debris to the school and the school can be infected. Yup and they're bringing it back home. This is terrible. How are you trying to say me that? A person can't go to the nail salon but they can go. You can send their kids to school. Now I get. There's parents who are struggling. I get that like their huge financial positions where they're very vulnerable and it's from fortunate they can't go back to work. I one hundred percent I get that. But as the as the governor of New York famously said what's worse than that. Yeah exactly exactly when cuomo sounds like your genius like it's death. There's nothing worse than death if you can show me something worse than death. Show me maybe. Your kid can come back to a healthy household so that way if your kid gets infected. Your Kid's GonNa bring them back to Health Health. And it's not gonNA impact you but there are families mine in particular were if they which to the same mandate for our province. Mike. It's not going to school. The Kent I can't afford them the risk New Brunswick Sorry New Brunswick so couple of quick parts here so now. New Brunswick as of the fifteenth of May had gone nine straight days with no new cases so Kudos to New Brunswick give you know I know I know how much you love New Brunswick so I love the Mindich problems so much yes And apparently they're They're risk of spring. Flooding has also receded. I guess they're reducing the funding to the flood. Watch because the expectation is that there will be no floods. Well that's good to hear that is very considering the fact that the last two years apparently two years in a row. They had a historic floods. Yeah like one one hundred year floods. Yeah nothing new crime changed. I forgot about the no. No but but here's what is happening. What has been happening in New Brunswick So New Brunswick The the provincial government had decided that they were Banning the use of temporary foreign workers. Okay and they expect that those that are unemployed will fill the positions of The we'll fill the positions that those temporary foreign workers would have filled. Okay yeah sorry just laughed there. Good luck with that so in particular in the in the CBC news story that I read There's a company called Westmoreland fisheries. So what doing at their lobster processing plant because apparently now is the time for lobster processing. They're expecting to rely on high school and Middle School children to fill the positions that they would normally fill it with foreign workers. Great even better. It's not it's not bringing to take their jobs. Let's child labor laws perfect. Exactly they will pay the middle schoolers. Thirteen dollars an hour and they will pay the high schoolers. Fifteen dollars an hour. The concern is that Because kids will not I mean the concern the concern I guess from the companies in regards to the foreign worker thing is that while New Brunswick Band The use of of foreign workers a surrounding provinces didn't so Nova Scotia didn't it doesn't look like Prince Edward Island or Newfoundland did Ontario definitely. Hasn't although different industry right? It's it's different farming right because you this fisheries but what what's happened. Apparently is that. Say quite a number of those workers that they would normally get in New Brunswick have gone and taken jobs in other provinces and the worry is that even after this is done they may not get those workers back. Yeah but that doesn't necessarily justify you know. The child. Labor is broken business model. That should be. We should definitely look at another side by. Yeah Yeah if you're only business most to rely on kids or foreign workers you have bad businessmen and you need to fix it. Not Give exceptions. You need to promote the affixing business mall and and don't necessarily fault the company because if the company the trying to survive so this is a government regulation that needs to be changed. Yep absolutely like I said that's A story to get into later now. Willia- what's the child should not be used. Yeah Children What's interesting about that? Hold on I WANNA I ain't gonNA pull up all the way to start working whilst fifteen so who might talk talk anyways. Go Go go child Labor Woohoo when you when you consider the fact that in some provinces middle school starts at Grade Seven. Yeah Right. That's my daughter. Next year go work. She wanted to go to work. She's like hey can I make some money might go find job? Yeah boy I had to go find a drop out pain. That's how it works around here. Don't you know Nova Scotia? Cottagers are upset that they can't go to their New Brunswick cottages oaks can't travel problems right because New Brunswick has their border borders closed to non essential traffic and so the so the funny thing about reading the story though was like there's some people that are like if I'm if standing at the border between Nova Scotia New Brunswick I can see my cottage and I'm not allowed to go to it and it's like yeah because that's what the rules are that are in place right now. You can't go to your cottage because it's non-essential travel imagine that I mean I've I've I've I've had this quote unquote conversation with some people online. And it's the and their argument. The whole will they pay property taxes? There they should be able to use the properties and are like you're right but this is extenuating circumstances. My argue counterargument always to that is okay. I pay property taxes that mean I can have toxic. Waste my backyard. Yeah exactly because listen. It's the same thing I could being affected your yard because of what I'm doing in my yard nip you want to minimize travel you want to minimize people going from place place because the more people travelled the more likely they are to spread the disease. Yeah that's just law of large numbers right hip. You increase the risk. So that's can't the one of the easiest ways to prevent you from? Traveling is close. The borders problem solved problems. But like you you you've taken one less thing like we would have loved to gone. See my wife's family Different products but we couldn't because bores closed Prince Edward Island so again there wasn't a ton of stuff in regards to pe I I guess they're legislature is planning on resuming in person sitting as of May twenty sixth And it will be the entire legislature. Although it's I guess a little bit easier for them because there are only twenty seven a. m. La's so it's not a large number of people. And they have. They've they've rearranged the space within the building to allow twenty seven people to be in the the Legislature Chamber And be physically distanced microphones and go to a field. Or you know I mean again with twenty twenty seven people as zoom meeting is even more possible yes but zoom is not secure in not trusted for life meet so I agree. We use zoom. I would use something else but yes zoom like. Yeah that's right. You could use something like that. Yeah I I agree. I mean I heard the stories of You know people like Crashing zoom meetings and stuff like that. Yes it's it's not It's not of the places that you won't have the most professionalism. A provincial legislator sit in is one of the ones where you don't want to have some random person coming in. I still say they can go to field on megaphones be fine. Yes exactly there. There are places like that N. P. I p. is very lovely but you can walk on the sand that makes squeaking is. That's right that's right. We took we took a little bit of and even though there are signs telling you that you're not supposed to so don't tell anybody it'll be our secret rate. Hey if I cut it from the episode. It'll be our secret right unless you're truck patriot. God as a shameless plug for. Okay Newfoundland and Labrador Finland. A door here the band Newfoundland. So what we have here so again I guess. In their case for covert nineteen as of the sixteenth of. May they have gone nine straight days with no new cases as well so Yay for Newfoundland? It kind of like Pe. I it probably helps that you know a good junkier province and a good chunk. Your population is on an island very much. So so labradors basically its own island to. Yes yeah exactly. There is road access. But it's like one road. Yeah so the other thing apparently was There's a dam is a hydroelectric dam. That's being being getting built at Muskrat falls You've heard about this yet. It's on my list okay. So anyway so anyways the there was a there so there was an inquiry into this thing that started in two thousand seventeen and the report was released back in March so this. This project had been approved by the government in two thousand twelve With an initial with an initial budget of seven point. Four billion dollars so at this at this time since with since the report was released the budget has has increased to twelve point. Seven billion dollars. the dam is still not done. The I guess the executives involved in the project had concealed information that would undermine the business case of this dam and this information was not reported to the public and now as a result the inquiry report has been handed over to the police and the Justice Department for possible criminal and civil cases. It wouldn't be Land if it was and it wasn't are the way. Yeah there's a lot in there. There's a lot more than you just dug up. Oh Yeah I imagine there is I imagine. And that's why that's why I was like when I when I started looking at it and I look at it for like five minutes. I'm like this could be a topic on. Its own guarantees. Guaranteed Mike Topic of this exactly so anyway so that now that happened back in March. That's to the. I guess the report happened back in March so it was two two months ago. Which sounds like old news at this point but I- considering that the circumstances obviously are still going on there and The people of the province of probably spent a lot of taxpayer money in order to get this thing built. It's probably not gonNA end up well like a lot of things like a lot of things. Her to flint is usually doesn't along with our products. No we're getting closer. We're getting closer so to the territory's none of this was kind of interesting so The government of none of it apparently spent about four million dollars to set up isolation hub in other areas of the country so that citizens of none of it would be able to isolate without having to come home. I so I guess I guess. Apparently it was things like getting you know renting hotel rooms and and things like that but basically setting or spending money to set up places. Now in particular the article that I read mentioned in Ottawa Winnipeg Edmonton and yellowknife. But it was making sure that there were places that were paid for by the government of Nova set aside so that It was something like just over a thousand people of of none of that. Were not living there right now but it would give them an option to be able to self isolate That's I may said they were that proactive in an had the ability to do that like at. I mean the logistic wherewithal to do that. There now. None of it is the only territory The only province and territory that has had no cases because they're also there's no land access slow right exactly so it's extremely remote a lot. A lot of it is extremely remote. Obviously you can get flights to a call it but it is extremely remote. So that yeah. It's not a surprise that there are no cases but you know the fact that they like you said there was there was there was some proactiveness there in realizing that they had citizens that were living in other areas of the country and they needed to do something to make sure that those people were protected as well trying to jump all doesn't like considering to a recognize it be implemented in C bullet logistic know how to do like. That's a lot in a short timeframe. Get like either they've predominant like they already had a plan in place again bravo or they did it quickly again. Bravo either a a OR B. I'll take is amazing Java. I'm going to go to the Yukon first before I go to the Northwest Territories because you these two are more. They're not exactly the same but they're closely tied to each other so in the Yukon The government has introduced a new program to help out renters and landlords What will happen is is that the government will pay a rent on the tenants behalf directly to the landlord if the tenant has lost thirty percent or more of their income our okay now. It has to be non subsidized housing. So they're they're their aim is to cover at least fifty percent of whatever. The median market rent is for April to June Which the numbers come out to For four hundred and fifteen dollars for a bachelor I guess is up to four hundred and fifteen dollars for a bachelor five hundred for one bedroom six hundred for a two bedroom in eight hundred for three plus bedroom and so the way this will work is that like I said the landlord will be paid it directly so the money won't go to the ten to pay the rent. The money will go to the landlord without touching attendant's hands but I guess the tenant the tenant applies for it. It's best that it goes at route. So that way The landlord gets the money right. Centrally Kudos to the Yukon meanwhile in the Northwest Territories The premier of the Northwest Territories has rejected an appeal by the Chamber of Commerce for a for a temporary block on commercial evictions. So he said no yes So apparently the so commercial landlords will be allowed to evect will be allowed to evict commercial tenants if they are not paying their rent. Now the interesting part to this In re in reading this article is that apparently the majority of landlords in the Northwest Territories Now I don't think it specified whether this was majority of commercial or residential or just majority of all landlords in the Northwest Territories are actually International Real Estate Investment trusts and that they're quote unquote anchor. Tenants are predominantly government offices. That's just bizarre. But so so the government. The government's not going to have problems paying their rent. The government will pay their rent. And these and these these These reits these landlords are probably by the sounds of it. are going to make their money are going to make a profit regardless because it sounds like there's quite a number of A vacant commercial property's anyways But they're gonNA make their money because they're collecting so much rent from the government but the government is perfectly okay to say. Yeah whatever if if small businesses can't pay their rent than they can be a victim whatever minded towards This tire should be. Where do you pay your taxes wherever you pay your taxes? If it's in Canada you get all the benefits in the world. If not in Canada and I get Norman Yeah that should be very simple so if a landlord in Merthyr territories is paying taxes in Canada. And they want to evict because they're losing money right. They should be allowed to if they're overseas one now too bad. Sorry about your luck The realities of you're not paying your evicted like a yeah I could see be- meth normally never Like I'd be fine. You convict just go somewhere else now. The Sun xactly that easy. It's not like a job. Noth surgeries that. All the premiums would do that very odd. They're not as political as you would get for the south of two which is even more bizarre. You don't have a decent Kenny in the Northwest Territories. Right Ontario. All right. I'm going to start with the funny ones I now. Maybe maybe they're not. We'll see so you know how everybody was outraged about Justin Trudeau going to Harrington Lake back on Easter weekend and so on and so forth so then it turns out. We found out over the last couple of weeks. Doug Ford also visited his cottage on Easter weekend but apparently it was just to check the plumbing way. Worse way worse. Here's the difference. Okay you can make the argument that Justin Trudeau went from his place of work where he always like. He's at twenty four Sussex and that's basically where he works all the time that's where he's doing everything and he went to see his family at their secondary location You could make that argument now. Some people said no he went to college overtop or over the bar fun. But there's a little bit of greater. There's no gary with w going up north. No and he didn't go by himself. It would be different if he went by himself. He said for the Easter Weekend One. He did go by himself. It was it was no no. He's back from the cottage from then. What what then happen to was the. I think what you're thinking of is on Mother's Day. They had they had family. Come over to the House in Toronto They had family come over to the house to celebrate. Mother's Day including family. That does not live in the house with them so they are two different situations. Guess so Either way either way. They're they're they're they both. Look the kid. You can't sit there and say you know. Don't go to your college and then go to your cottage. Now I understand the desire to chucky plumbing. I get that but you can't tell other people not the same because they're going to do the same and you have to be the example. He did do a good job of making as covert as possible. Because it didn't know right away which I give them like tip my hat to them like that way but still dougie come on. You're supposed to be the one I really like now. This oftentimes politicians and people in general. They put guidelines rules on false. Not because they think that people will follow those but because they're trying to curb they're trying to lower the degree so if you put a speed limit one hundred you know people are going to travel one ten one twenty if you know that you want people trouble one ten one twenty you put the Spielman at one hundred your that reason because people don't fall the rules and this is the re honest tuition so if you want people to minimize their connors travel want spring where you can go to your cottage To you know you need to make it very clear that like if you go to college you could be fined right like if you go to your cottage by yourself and you do all the stuff that needs to be done. And you're one person is someone GonNa come by the law. Probably not if there's your entire family at the cottage you should be And fought and finally and I've seen people being find in our city for people being we and during around different places so which I was very happy 'cause like Oh wow okay next I you know I said it was the funny ones and then obviously the cottage thing was not necessarily funny Attack you yeah exactly Doug all right. So our Minister of Education Stephen Leaky tweets out a zoom meeting photo with great six children which included the names of the children and the school that they went to not censored. You know Now he has since deleted the tweet and then recreated it with names blurt out but Humana misstated make blake who I know at the ED. It's just funny because yes he's trying to push online stuff and he doesn't understand online. Yeah yeah it's the irony the flows from him. I will admit that seemingly has done a pretty good job during this Kobe. Nineteen thing yes entering other progressive conservative ministers in other provinces. Alberto haven't done as well. Yes I'll give him props. Yeah Fair enough to funny yet. I mean you. You have to admit the fact that you know cove nineteen came along all the rhetoric that he was spouting online came to an end and miraculously the contracts with the With the different teachers unions got completed or at least gotten to the point. Got to the point with With Preliminary and got preliminary completions. I guess they still had to be voted on. But it's like. Wow imagine that if you spent the time negotiating instead of spewing government rhetoric online like twenty four hours a day. Something might get done. Well I think I have met that. Probably both sides To a degree realized the last thing anybody wants to hear about it bickering. Oh Yeah so the big. So now that we've got past those things so the big deal the big deal for Antero and again. This is one of those things that could very easily be. A larger topic is the fact that disability and welfare recipients do feel like they're falling through the cracks during the whole covert nineteen situation because Because there there's already been an issue in the sense that the funding that they received from the government is barely enough to make ends meet as it is. It sounds like the average person that's on disability makes less money than the average senior And the senior and there's been plenty of seniors out there that have been complaining about you know Obviously the cost of things going up and not being able to afford their basic necessities And disability disability recipients are in a worse position so as a comparison so someone who has lost their work as a result of nineteen can apply for the Serb and get the two thousand dollars a month but For Effort OH DSP in particular so they antero disability support program top up that's been provided by. The government is equivalent to one hundred dollars per person per month for the month of March to July. Now the maximum amount that somebody makes on odious P already for twenty twenty is one thousand one hundred sixty nine dollars a month for us for a single person so they get bumped up to twelve sixty nine which I okay. It's a little bit more money and those people are working so they're obviously not eligible for Serb. Because they weren't working necessarily I. It's possible at some of them were and they wouldn't be making as much on a DSP because of that but let's say the people that are getting the maximum they're not working and some people would say yeah but the disability payments aren't taxable. That's like you're right. They're not taxable but even when you consider the tax that someone is likely paying on the Serb someone on the Serb is making more money than somebody on disability so there probably needs to be some sort of adjustment or correction to the disability system to ensure that the people that are on disability are at least able to Have their basic needs. Met without needing support from other family members and things like that. That's it. I'll say this. That kind of a topic is topic. Not necessarily because of covert ninety. Know exactly what they get paid in. That goes back to Russel income and things like that. What they get paid is dependent on circumstances. Things like that because you can go on odious P for back problems and some people are perpetual odious p user so their parents are on ant. Their uncles are on and their kids are on. Everyone's because of their back problems briskly. They just don't WanNa work now and get paid for P. now there are some people that with specific disability and other things that need to be taken into consideration and Obviously maybe the aren't getting paid enough but the Serb was put in quickly and broadly. Yes so it's not perfect in it it there's no way it could be So complaining about it. Yeah you may think that you know It's not fair but guess what. I'm sorry like these people went people. Were making more than two thousand dollars a month right. Oh Yeah Yep so. They have structures in place that are over two thousand dollars month so when that is like they pay certain amount for their house. They pay certain amount for Different living expenses They weren't expecting. This isn't something you know where let's say you were A manager at some business at down does not always. Let's say a factory of some sort right. Yeah let's you're factor and you're making eighty K. Per Year two thousand dollars is barely going to cover your expenses. That you've built up you know because you have more monthly expenses. You've lived this lifestyle because you've recent that you'RE GONNA lose that John Nelson. We'll say well we have retirement fund. Yeah good yeah like how many. How many have the have the three months? Rainy Day Fund Zero. Yeah exactly yeah so like your expenses are high so yeah you're not like that guy across the street. That's you know was working at minimum wage at a factory. Yeah he's getting nausea and he thinks it's a windfall but not everyone is in that same category. A lot of people aren't so and that's where it was. That's why blanket right they didn't care about your income at the time that said two thousand dollars go figure it out as much as I want to say. Yeah I feel but I feel bad for a lot of people not just on the spill right now. Right Okay Federal Government. Here we go our federal government So let's start with a couple of funny things because they should be hopefully be very quick and Justin Trudeau introduces the Hashtag Canada. Homework help on twitter and conservative trolls. Immediately destroy it because they don't like nice things. Well Yeah. Judo has many heaters. Yeah probably Yeah probably Michelle Ripple Garner. Who is the conservative? Mp for Calgary Nose Hill Releases a FUNDRA RELEASES. A fundraising video On facebook for her constituents Talking about the possibility of a snap election in the fall however she's been in Oklahoma since this thing started because that's where her husband lives. Yup I love and peace from Alberto. They're awesome she's she's She's taken on the moniker from You know obvious. Non Supporters Online as being the MP for Calgary Oklahoma so The federal government introduces a new gun. Ban WE'RE NOT EVEN GONNA go down that route because we've talked about it before and I know that it's only GonNa make you angry so I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Louise agree it's GonNa make you angry. I hear it doesn't do anything. Yes I know. I know. It doesn't do and did didn't have any impact on what was banned right. It's a useful spell right all right. I'm okay good The the the candidate emergency wage. Subsidy IS NOT ATTRACTING. Nearly as many applicants as the government expects possibly because it took so long for it to get implemented and by the time it got implemented. Many people were already laid off and businesses were closed and they were not willing to go into the process of starting back up to get their employees back on the books so that they could get the subsidy from the government. I give the federal government a pass this because one. It's a logistical nightmare to. They did what they could and three. I understand businesses. Not WanNa start backup like I get it at all. This I give passes for the only thing that you could say would be. A problem is the fact that it wasn't a something that was already in place. In case of emergency like break and Kiss Mercy bracco brick classroom and I guess. Yeah it's a I guess that's it. Guess if there's any positives to it is that what they could do. Is You know this? The program will eventually wind down but at least then they have a program in place that if something does happen again they can say well. We already had this program and and we know we know what worked what didn't and if we take the time to rework it to make sure that things do work when if we do come across the situation where we have to implement it again then we can and we got a lot faster. There's a lot of things we can learn from this right smack. That's one of the things that they didn't do it quick enough time. Yeah I get it so now a COUPLA still get passed by me you try. It didn't work as well as I should say. Felt you in work as well as you want to get us. Yeah Just for some quick numbers thing so The government had expected about a million applications From businesses for the for the wage subsidy and as as of the twelfth of May there had only been one hundred and thirty two thousand applications. So you know just a little over one tenth of what they were expecting And then meanwhile Serb applications were are to date double of what they expected. They were expecting about four million applications and they've received over eight million applications shocking. That people would rather not work than work. Well I well again. I think it's also it's it's it's people not would prefer not to work as opposed to work but I think it's also businesses realized that they were in a position that they just they couldn't afford to keep staff on and wait to see what the government was going to be able to provide for them but like right. I shouldn't say this because I'm the person that got laid off from one job that I may have. Capped had the thirty percent the thing ruled in place and ended up getting another job right so you know. I think there's and this is going to lead into the into the topic but I think there are plenty of people that would rather work than not now right in general. I mean again under the circumstances because of safety and health and things like that and realizing like who you're living with and and whatever I can understand that there's maybe more people that are like well. It makes more sense for me to stay home because I don't want to get my wife sick. I've got my My elderly parents living with me and I don't want them to get sick and like I can understand. Under those circumstances however Andrews share in the last week and a half as not only called Serb recipients lazy but he's also claimed that some of them may be fraudsters. Well I'll put it this way. He may not be wrong with the first statements for some okay and the second win may also be true however. How does that help in any way shape or form right like an example? I'll give you. Is that in war. War To there was rations handed out in. Like you got your like you got your card. Knee went and got it and Churchill knew that there are people that were Fronting the system including counterfeits. And he would. He didn't punish those people because he knew that it wasn't good for the morale of the pot of the population To call them out where to go after them right sheer. You're trying to lead fertile for now lame-duck lead by. You're trying to do something calling people up for being lazy. You're not inspiring anybody like you call me as it's not like Oh sure. Common Lazy Packet back to work right not habit so you need to have measured responses now. You don't necessarily have to have Trudeau's measured responses that I've had about where it's like. Hey just what? You're what you're what culture type. Well you see I wanna I think the healthcare workers they've done a fantastic job and I wanna let you know that A lot of people time care and energy went into making this tie and I want to congratulate. All the Canadians have participated in a me and making sure that the arrest represented by the color of this time which is a a slight shade of blue. But it's also indicative of all Canadians across the country like I don't want to have that kind of measure response but you know you WanNa have some fun so so does if just ran off to had the right level of US comes in there too. You're you're right speaking. Yeah so I WANNA go I wanna go with the fraud side of it Because so I. I've talked to some clients about this and I've said the fact that you know what this is all over. There's going to be auditing. The the the reason the reason why the CRA is the one. That's that's managing these pro. Most of these programs is because they are the arm of the government that ensures that the government makes its money and so they are going to go after people none and fraud. I guess if if there is fraudulent activity in it they'll go after those people I don't know how much fraudulent activity there would be per se so much as people that and I get. I guess depending on how you look at fraud. There's people that have likely applied for. Let's say the Serb that are not eligible. Okay now if you want to come home if you WANNA call that fraud if there's ignorance if like whatever it happens to be because there's GonNa be some people that applied for it because they felt like they were eligible based on the guidelines that they read and then it's GonNa turn out that because of X Y and Z. They were not eligible and the the the money back to the government. So I mean I guess it depends on how you want to define fraud but Like one of the arguments apparently whereas as a quote unquote anecdotal evidence from the head of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation Was THAT A. He said he received an email from somebody Where the guy has a neighbor. Who's a farmer that has some horses and apparently was able to apply for the Serb under his horse's name? That's one case rows. Pretend that it did happen. On one case that is such anecdotal evidence that it's incredible that you would bother to take the time right you should be crucified for your lack of factual knowledge. Like you should be raked over the coals for trying to say that this is fact any any basically did he ended this. He ended UP HAVING TO WALK BACK HIS STATEMENT. Kind of kind of walked back. I guess You know he still. He just wants to have some circumstantial evidence like right like even if one percent of the population is fraudulent. You still do this. Yes and what are you trying to tell you? What the where's the logic? You don't want them to do this right exactly that. You're trying say because you're trolley. It's a meaning behind it. So explain the me. Well what's your so for instance there said so conservatives are currently saying there is approximately two hundred thousand fraudulent claims now. I previously said that there have been eight million applications so we are talking about. What are we talking about? We are talking about two and a half percent Of the overall applications that may or may not be fraudulent. So you weren't you want exactly you want the process to be held up for the other ninety seven and a half percent of people that applied for the program because two and a half percent of the claims might be fraudulent so we have to go after the fraudulent claims before we make sure that another person gets a penny seven point people on hold because of two hundred thousand people right. This is one thing and get after right and this is why the CRA is administering the program because when the program is over the CRA will audit and the CRA will get a lot of money back. Yeah even if I say this way even if the two point five percent they never collected dime from it yeah I instill locate with. I am perfectly okay with it because this this this was a reality when it was first brought like. If you had told me while there's two percent might be two to three percent air. Okay do it. How would you after? The whatever percentage it is of people that are in the upper echelon that don't pay the doctors and then we can talk about that right. The personal attacks fitter taxpayers. Let's go after those people first before you after the people the people that serve. It's also it's also it's also rich that you know it's Andrew share that is holding a press conference in basically calling people for fraudsters and you know he's the one that used Party money to pay for his kids. school tuition and bought van. And all these different things you know whatever. Whatever your correlating thanks. I don't think she'd be correlated. I guess I guess I'd say that the tax federation yes complaining about fraudulent accounts from a horse. You need to get real because that person. Let's say if if those numbers weren't accurate those people would not be a drop in the hat compared to the mount of fraudulent activity. That comes from the top. So don't start. Yeah well Sir that has been cross country. Checkup should chose sure top kit financing this. Oh that's okay I I knew it was gonNA take a while and it's a long weekend so I have more time all right so anyways I guess that's the end of our. Our little discussion here are catch up on what's been going on across the country So thanks for listening. My Name's Adam. We'll talk to you.
November 2: Plight. Unseen.
"This is a CBC podcast at Franklin Templeton. We help you invest in companies that treat every milestone like a steppingstone reach for better Franklin Templeton investments. Hello. I'm Carol off. Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. And this is as it happens. The podcast addition. Tonight light unseen ravaged by starvation. Her image became a symbol of Yemen's cruel war now that she's died. Young girls. Mother must find the energy to mourn powers played Canada's highest court rejects Newfoundland and Labrador's bid for a bigger slice of the money. Quebec has been raking in from the hydro project at Churchill falls flagging memories. A Winnipeg artist raises nine hundred banners in front of city homes each with the story of a young man who lived there and went off to die in the first World War put on something. A little more fetching a UK radio host prepares a program of musical classics index. -clusive -ly at the listening pleasure of dogs room and board in life. Bob Ross was American public television's art instructor extraordinaire now a class with a cardboard cutout of the painter has a Michigan library. Hugging to accommodate all the painters. He's inspired and adder minded it began to lurk. But then a writer in the UK built an entire literary arc aimed at saving nature words that the digital age had ferreted from the dictionary for kids as it happens. The Friday edition radio that new their auditor be away. You may have seen the photo recently. If you did you will not forget it. It was published by the New York Times last week. The photograph shows an amazing girl lying on her back in hospital bed and Yemen. She has her eyes open and her head turned to the side. Now, the paper reported that that little girl. Seven year old al-ghussein has died. Declan Walsh is the Cairo bureau chief for the New York Times. He was in Yemen last month reporting on the story, we reached him in Cairo. Declan? What have you heard from the little girl's family as to how they are doing. When we spoke to almost mother, she was very upset. Obviously, she said that was a child who she described chart who laugh to law who had always been, you know, the center of her life. She said, but she said that right now, she was focused on the rest of children almost mother. Mariam alley has six other children. They live in very difficult circumstances in this refugee camp in northwestern Yemen. And she said right now, she's just weighed that another of children could also become nourished or full prey to the same sort of vicious company tion of hunger and disease that is believed to have been responsible for the death of almo and she when you were covering the story when you first met the family they were trying to keep her life. She'd been in the hospital at what what finally ended almost life. Well, we weren't there to to see it. So we don't know for sure, but what is certain is that had been in an out of hospital several times over the last couple of months, and the doctors told us that she had she had come in with symptoms of Manu Trish in a month before that she stayed for a couple of weeks. She got somewhat better, she was discharged and went home. But then weeks after that she felt ill again and had to be readmitted. Doctors say that's very common pattern among manners children in Yemen. And chances are that the mother Mariam can keep her other children alive. Well, it's going to be a huge challenge. She told us a little bit about her family when we met her initially in the hospital. She said that you know, she is one of two wives to the same to the same, man. She said that her her husband lives much of the time with with the another family. So that you know has limited. Sources to deal with these kind of strains with so many so many young children to look after fields. Also mentioned the fact that their family come from an area that has been targeted by much of the Saudi led coalitions air bombardment of Yemen over the last couple of years, so they've been objected from their home. They're now living in this refugee camp. And she said that they she no longer has the kind of support from familial networks that she would normally rely on this kind of situation to help her get through it. So she was very worried about what's coming next. I I'm sure I was among so many others who when they saw this photo and the story on the front page, the New York Sunday times, and you at times was had such an impact is it a powerful image powerful story of one seven year old girl. What kind of response have you had publicly from the story. We've had over welling were. Sponsor, it seems that so many readers really identified with that main image of almo Hussein we were myself, both myself and tighter Hickson, and some of the editors at the times were inundated with emails from readers who wrote in people who want to to help people who said they wanted to send money specifically to Otto as people often to in these situations or people who just simply wanted to know how she was has. She was going on by the same token. We've had absolutely very emotive pouring from lot of readers since we posted our story last night about almost death. And of course, the harsh truth is that almost cases just one among many in in in Yemen in many in many ways, it's entirely unexceptional. But such as the scale of the suffering in Yemen that I think for many readers, it's easier to understand if it's focused just on one case, it is strange, isn't it that sometimes there will in history. There are photo photos into. Vigils stories that change everything suddenly wake people up to some reality. And I wonder if this is one of those times because we know there are nearly two million children in Yemen in exactly the same situation as ammo, and this is they call it the secret war, the forgotten war of Yemen. And yet, it seems suddenly that people are aware. This has is going on is that your you're feeling up certainly the suffering in Yemen is actually nothing new. What's changed? I think a couple of things have changed recently one. Is that things have simply gotten a lot worse. The economic deterioration of Yemen. That's been in trained for several years has accelerated at an alarming pace in the last couple of of months and aid workers say that that as much as anything else is part of the problem. It's not that there is necessarily an immediate difficulty in getting food or even really fade into affected areas in Yemen. The main difficulty right now is in ensuring that other Yemenis are able to buy food to feed their families because prices have been rising so quickly. So those are the kind of challenges that that that people are facing right now. And you know, that there is now some kind of effort to try and get a ceasefire in the next thirty days that possible. Well, it's been a change in certainly in the public stance of some of the western countries, like the United States and Britain that have been that have been backing the Saudi led coalition that they have suddenly now come out, and they have spoken very strongly urging both sides to release to come to the to the peace talks. And of course, we had Jim Mattis US Defense Secretary couple of days ago saying that he wanted a ceasefire within the next ten days. So that's the change the other thing that's changed. I think is that the focus on the actions of Saturday Arabia abroad that came as a result of the. The outrage if you like over the death of the Saudi dissident Jamal kashogi in Istanbul that has really given a focus. I think to the war in Yemen. Suddenly this war that had gotten relatively little attention over the last year, certainly certainly in proportion to the scale of the suffering that was going on. And I think now suddenly people in many countries are starting to ask questions about Saudi policy not just towards dissidents. But also the way that it's conducting this war in Yemen Jacqueline. Thank you for the story of Amel Hussein is tragic as it is. And thank you for speaking. With us was much lecture. Declan Walsh is the Cairo bureau chief for the New York Times. We reached him in Cairo. Oh. Ooh. It started out a happy marriage back in nineteen sixty-nine Eacho Quebec something to sweetheart deal to buy power from Newfoundland and Labrador's Churchill falls project, but for years one province has been seeking a divorce Newfoundland and labrador wants out of a contract, and it seemed Quebec profit very nicely. Well, Newfoundland and labrador brings in a much smaller take this morning. However, the supreme court of Canada ruled that the deal must stand. Russell Wang gerski is calmness with the telegram newspaper and the salt wire network. We reached him in Saint John's. Vessel. You have called. This case hail. Mary pass. Was there any chance cream court was going to let Newfoundland and labrador out of its deal with Quebec, I don't think the really was not on this particular model. I mean, what they were really looking for the Newfoundland side. Anyway, was looking for was for a case to be decided on good faith that the deal that we signed so many years ago actually turned out to be something different. So it should just be renegotiated on a good faith basis. And and that's a pretty long ball. This gives a sense of just how uneven this deal is what are the numbers? The the harsh numbers of profit the profit for Quebec hydro so far is about twenty eight billion dollars and the profit on the Newfoundland side is about two billion dollars. And why is it so out of whack because back from the deal was struck the Newfoundland side who wanted to give us money to build the actual Churchill falls power complex. Settled on an idea that they wanted a fixed rate for electric city couple of reasons for that one was that they needed to pay off the bonds used to build the the whole project, but the other one was that there was actually a live concern at the time that nuclear power might take off and the price of lex ity might plunge. So what they actually wanted to do was to make sure that they were protected and be able to pay back the money that they bore road to to build a facility in the first place. Unfortunately, the opposite happened, and there was no mechanism built in that said if prices elected trinity go way way up we'll you know, that that will be shared equally or partially or in fact at all and it hasn't been feeling labradors still getting the money in dollar ended the nineteen sixty nine set price. Right. It hasn't had a doesn't taken into consideration the skyrocketing energy costs prices. It's actually worse than. The deal had an automatic renewal clause built into it. And that new renewal came into effect like year and a half ago or so and the new rate was even lower than the original rate. So we're actually getting less now than the original deal in the sixties. So why did is it court say this deal should stand? Probably the easiest way to explain it is the spring court said it's one thing if a contract is if something happens after a contract is drawn up in someone's suffers as a result. The problem is that what the supreme court ruled was the Newfoundland site hasn't actually suffered. It's done everything that the contract originally anticipated. All were not sharing in is windfall profits after the fact if you can't show that you've actually been damaged by what happened after the contract signed, you can't avail of something to protect you from being harmed because you weren't you weren't hard. One Justice who disagreed with the decision, Malcolm. Rowe who while I guess just happens to be from Newfoundland and labrador. He spoke of he said that it was there was an implied obligation, and they're subject to a heightened duty of good, faith and cooperation, I guess like just being good neighbours. There's something that could back should have done out of the goodness of his heart. Is that what do you think you say? Two degree. But I think what he was trying to make the point. He was trying to make him that is that the contract between between hydro Quebec. And and the Newfoundland parties was in a sense a reciprocal contract that they were both trying to meet the same ends. So these specific numbers in the contract shouldn't have to be here to what should be the general aims the rest of the supreme court, basically said if you have a contract that spells out terms specific measurable terms. He can't be a reciprocal contract. So I think that's where the to kind of break apart. It's kind of hard to imagine that something that says we will pay this amount for per kilowatt hour every year for this number of years full and buy a new contract for this number of years could be seen as a sort of a joint venture. This is what the courts decide this is what the contract looks like according to the courts as any. Anything politically involved here. I mean is there anything that the federal government should've could've would've done that would have mitigated this long ago? Yes. Debility to move electric city between provinces the way pipeline oil can move, you know, without having individual provinces, basically lock up their distribution systems. That would have been a big difference. And in this province. What tends to happen when when you look at that people say when that's where it falls down that our province like Newfoundland has only seven seats in the house of Commons, and I guess it adds to that sense. Newfoundland labrador always have they they didn't get much from joining confederation that they get the dirty end of the stick in national politics. And this is never temple that is alive. And well, I mean this labrador got enough lot through joining Canada's. Well, but I think in this case the politics are less directed against the federal government or they they are. Are two degree but more against Quebec. Frankly, Newfoundland politicians have spent a considerable amount of time drumming up dislike if not occasional hatred for Quebec on exactly these grounds. What happens now how much longer does this deal stand than twenty forty one? We hear about it a lot in the media here about it. Actually it right now, it's subject of provincial inquiry into a different hydro-electric project at muskrat falls. Where people are now saying why didn't we just wait till twenty forty one when we're going to be rolling in electric city. Anyway. So yes, there's a there is a feeling of it's a long contract, but we are counting down towards the end. Wrestle have a good weekend. Thanks. You too gerski is a columnist with telegram newspaper and the salt wire network. We reached him in sync Johns. Now that. Let's decide maybe there's a happy tree. Evergreen tree lives. Right there start with just touching the canvas. Just the corner. The brush just the corner and begin pushing making the bristles been slightly downward. See there. Who didn't love the joy of painting for over a decade Bob Ross blissfully showed PBS viewers how to paint beautiful landscapes filled with happy little trees. Mr. Ron's died in nineteen ninety five the program died with him. But the internet has brought Bob Ross show. The joy of painting to a new generation and now, libraries and community centers are tapping into its renewed popularity by offering Bob Ross painting classes in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They are so popular that the library has had to move the events to a bigger space. Josie Parker is director of the Ann Arbor district library. That's where we reached her Josie. I understand you actually bring a cardboard cutout a life size of Bob Ross himself to the classes that right? Yes. Bob Ross is standing at the doorway welcoming people in they come and we even last night. She. Vent had a staff person wearing a Bob Ross wig. And he had a big smile and all of the people coming in the library. Even those who were coming for Bob Ross wanted to know what is going on. So yes, we have a Bob Ross cut out. So how do you bring the Bob Ross that that that PBS Barbara's that that that painting show? How do you bring it to life for these students in the classroom? Well, it's well, I guess the first thing is it's not even it's not a classroom. So it's much more comfortable than that. It's why it's large meeting rooms huge meeting rooms, or even in our case, we cleared out the two story lobby of our downtown libraries because there's been such a demand for this program. We needed bigger space for it. So it's wide open spaces people can see all around they see each other. They can see stacks. They can see patrons using the library and other ways. So it's not private in not. It's not set up like a classroom. So much more casual comfortable setting in Bob Ross is on a huge screen that we drop down from the ceiling. So people can see him from all over the room and hear him and our staff or wondering around helping people make sure they have enough paint and answering questions quietly if there's something they need help with so it's assisted, but not taught that makes sense. How many people are turning out to do these these classes of Bob Ross and the joy of painting. Arbor. The first time we presented it. We expected sixteen we had ninety and the second time we plan for one hundred and we had well over one hundred and thirty or forty and then we did it again this past September did in two sessions. So that we could accommodate the the demand, and we had two hundred and fifty people come last night we had a hundred and fifty people come and we had to turn people away. Because that's that's the space. We had available last evening. What's the appeal? Well, apart from I think the the apart from painting apart from the interest in painting and having something you actually take home with you that you've completed in an hour and a half something you can hang on the wall or give to someone. I think the appeal is how it's done. He's very quiet spoken. He's very encouraging. He's non judgmental. He's he's very he's happy. He he intends you to find a happy moment in the hour and a half you spend painting along with him. I think we I think people miss that. I think we need it. I think we we need a Mr. Rogers we need a Bob Ross and our lives, and if that's how we can go get it. And that's how they go get it. And we're pleased that the public libraries able to bring that to people, but you have certified Ross instructors as you call. Them. So that why not just have that? Why not just have a class with somebody helping them learn to painter enjoy the painting white, why do you need to have Bob Ross on screen? Well, we don't we don't use Bob Ross certified instructors, we are doing it differently. We we have purchased the rights to have the program live on the screen and people are in our space painting the way, they the same way they would be if they were at home our staff or just there to assist to make sure they have enough paint brushes or working properly that sort of thing, we're not teaching it. Bob Ross is teaching okay? That's why people like it. There are libraries who is the only one doing this. Now, this is sped. But others have taken on these certifications Ross instructors. What do you make of that? I think it depends on the library in the community, and how what sort of staffing they have. And if they have the staff in the who can assist with this. And and make sure that works for people. Then then that's one thing if they're they don't then they then they need to pay to have a certified instructor come in. Then that's what they're doing. I library the library are going. They're going to choose what's right for their community. And they should this is just how we're doing. And why why do you need Bob Ross at all why didn't need the show up there on this? Why can't you people to show up and give them some pains and gives them some canvases, and let them work on that bring somebody into help them to learn what what is it about the Bob Ross appeal that chain. Is this? I don't think that most people are coming to this to paint a painting and are to learn to paint. I think that they're coming because they're there for the community of it. Many people are coming with someone they're couples or couples are coming. Neighbors are coming college. Roommates are coming that people are coming who are twelve and thirteen and people are coming who are in their eighties. I don't I don't think it's about learning to paint. I think it's about being together. And I really do think it's about how Ross speaks to people how he makes people feel good about themselves and others. And then leaves you with something good to remind you of what experience you had with him wherever you are. It's just wonderful Josi. Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure talking with you. Josie Parker is director of the Ann Arbor district library reached her in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And if you'd like to see some photographs of Bob Ross in the painters, he has inspired go to our website, CBC dot CA slash h. It is a dangerous time for dogs in the UK. The normally canine costing kingdom is about the subject. It's poor pooches to Guy Fawkes night on Monday. And then two days later. It's still volley the Hindu celebration of light. That means days of terrifying explosions. Not terrifying for us. I'm talking about are wet nosed four pod incredibly sensitive eared, friends, those blasts that make us. Ooh. And all make our pooches all and as I try to bury themselves under the nearest couch. Which is why Bill Turnbull is putting together a radio show just four dogs. Mr. turn bowl is a presenter with British station. Classic FM night's show. He is going to unleash a two hour compilation of retriever relieving tracks. Mr. Turnbull explains. Quote, the musically play on classic FM is always relaxing. But what we've got lined up is even more chilled than usual unquote in the interests of serving our. For legged listeners we've been doing a little digging. We found a Scottish study from twenty seventeen that measured. What different types of music did dogs. Here's what the researchers found that. While classical might be soothing it was on Paul with Motown pump. But what really did a dog good with soft rock and reggae. Robert McFarland is giving loss words. A new life words about nature such as corn blue bell Kingfisher and Ren were taken out of the Oxford junior. Dictionary years ago the words were replaced by others broadband celebrity voicemail. Mr. MacFarlane was concerned about that shift away from words related to the natural world, and he along with his colleague Jackie Morris created what they call a spell book to conjure. The lost words. The book was published last month in North America. Mr. McFarland is a writer and he teaches literature at the university of Cambridge in England. And that is where we reached him. When you're Canadian publisher told me about this book. I was picturing some kind of well an informed reference book, I was not prepared for the volume that arrived is large beautiful illustrations and poems in this work. How did you decide to do it this way? Thank you. Well, we knew we wanted to make a spell, but we wanted to make something which was which carried with it the possibility of magic. And we knew that for that to happen. It needed to be an object that people love that they opened like a treasure chest or walked into like a landscape, and we will look enough to have publishes who believe that to be the case. And so it's proved and working with this extraordinarily Jackie Morris who works with gold leaf which is a magical substance on the page. We we made this book that is as big as some of its redes-. I guess you could say I think about thirty or forty centimeters toll. Yeah. Yeah. At least. Yeah. Yeah. Now, but just so this open is treasure test. And we start flipping through the each of the words that you have celebrated here there's about three pages dedicated each one just describe what happens in those pages. So the book is simply but could be ready. It's just twenty woods twenty low switch. It begins with Cohen. It ends with red. And it makes it crooked as Ed will may states is that three harridan Kingfisher and blue their nose to the way to the end, and for each of those woods, which were lost from this dictionary from that from children's language and stories in this country and around was we we wanted to make a set of summoning back imagine procession. So you been the page full that say Kuhn the double spread and and nothing is that right pony show. And all the day leads to go on the tree is going to go. And this just. Page of absence, but scattered across it. That's is some of that's just which get picked up by the rita's the children spell it Aiqun and Wednesdays that has been fine. So it's fine and pick ties and spelled in magical and also that very straightforward send you turn the page and that is a coup in back on gold leaf wonderfully kunai cone painted by Jackie. And there's a full spell written by me, which spells that these the way they couldn't. And that's that's be read allied by the children by the parents by anyone and we've been surprised by the people who have read from this book. And then once you've cost you spat as it was in the acorn sped in this case, it's in the page. Finally, and there's a glorious double page from Jackie of what other paintings of the Coon some in back in that is a tree Tony out and oak tree, the entire ecosystem the landscape, but in a tree makes creates in the community it closes in place and free to these words some. Acorn outer blue bell Bramble for Heather Kingfisher, author raven willow Wren, each of these words has this spell in these each each has its own three pages. What we say that that you talk about the old strong. Magic of the words being spoken aloud why what what's why is the part of the magic that these words should be said aloud that's a great question is wonderful. Hey, you say them, I suppose I've heard them said in a in in a Canadian accent? It's you say them very wonderfully and hit them differently again in. Ciccio question that that let me say things, I mean that that is literature begins its way its way, it's technology. Speaking of names, really is almost as a species and to put them back into my this to put them back in the minds. I I and into story again in the old sense. We spell things alive. Magic works was speaking allied. And so we wanted to catch a little at that. And also you remember things differently when you speak them. So whenever I finished a spell. I would always send it to Jackie by Email Rosen carry a Fokin know, something and. I would say, you know, to be read at the first he was always the fist to read them. And I always read them. And and so it's happening children. We get sent videos photographs films every day of children, speaking the woods. Dispose allowed performing them unto people older people reading them with children people with dementia and other conditions losing woods in other ways. They trying to speak the alive as having them speaking to them. So I think there's something very strong in in poetry end in memory about about speaking. Why with these words that you celebrate here. Why would they take an out of the Oxford junior? Dictionary. They were take an because they won't being used enough. That's the simple. It's not the dictionaries, folks. This is extreme that's very widely used in Britain for children age roughly six to eight it's a small victory. They have to take. Choices about what language is relevant that age group. But the woods that went in with very telling to this edition of the dictionary hidden when broadband Bo gras attachment voicemail, and well, you get the picture. I mean, this was a a moment in lexical graphic analysis is it spoke of a much bigger moment in coach childhood is becoming visualized. It's becoming interior is going into those and nature's is slipping from childhood as it is the thing for Modi life and landscape. So the book was kind of. The book was kind of protest note against the dictionary that against the law, but why do doing why do they need to name nature? Why is it not just enough to be in it? And of course, we know children can't even be in. It's not even possible for them. But is it not enough just to walk into a landscape? Why do you need to name landscapes? Why did you name things in it? It's a great question. And and I mean putt putt of what you say is absolutely right. There's a there's a huge inequality of access to unite chat. And I guess we make many people say, oh, my children note of these would they they know them, and I say, well, that's that's fine. That's great. But there are millions of children, so many complicated reasons. They should reasons I've seen in classes, you know, not child insist today Cohen is a child that is what I read is. Why does it matter that we that we name? That's another great question because children really into nature. Right. They they they run into it. They they cover over it. If you give them a chance that shows that nature that incredible one denotes, they tasted in each it and touch it. But they also love naming children miraculous name and to name something, I think is to know too little too to see the most daily, and and maybe to Catholic a bit more. If you see only trees is greed, if you name acorn auto Kingfisher, oh, some of these most basic of creatures we show lives with then think you for them, really. Trying to decide which of your spells as you call them, they poems, but us, call them spells. And we'd like you to read and his hard when you have blue bell and Brown Lil in fern, and Kingfisher and raven and milin ran their old. It just roll off the tongue. I believe we have settled on offer. Great. Okay. Well, I have I have the book open at two hoping that you would you say to so. Yeah, I call them espouse, partly because I wasn't real poets to think I think I'm real poet say. 'cause I'm not. But, but yes, this is this is the office spell written to be read aloud and hood, and you may be able to hit each new stanza Stutz with one of the left is author it spells it in that sense. So hit goes. And two river with that photo. What supple slide active hosts and into water this shape? Shift is a share breath taker a show hut stuff that you'll only have a spot to shadow flutter bubbles skiing and never omos. Actual offset. They switched swim as a silver mine with tribe. It's or at boys each Blackpool deep and deep adele's up current steep, steep itunes. The woods are inside. I then inside. I. Epa dreamed of being offset that underwater Sunda both that shimmering twist run to the riverbank Costa dream, your skin and change your Mets pull your being into oughta and end to now is also without Fulton into water. I think that's poetry. Just excuse me. What I am tied seventeen nuts. I I. Isn't a place where their number of offers very vodka tive of those creatures. But so all of these spells about the the different animals, and plants that you have named and I guess what comes to mind is that if the words are being lost its they're being lost to right? I mean, the species loss and the past just in few in past decades species lost Z Norma. So do you think that that that that that that's a corresponding development? Yeah. It is. I mean, I think passively we are living through a any book of laws with surrounded by it overwhelms us, we find it very hard to focus on it to see it. Losses is kind of absence up scence is largely invisible. It doesn't present itself to sweep Eddie notice it, and and yet they lost his happening. Of course, we know about the the high profile is the rainforest disappearance that the charismatic megaphone of the potable footing. But it's happening. You know daily landscapes as well. And this the many of the creatures in the named in these twenty names, particularly skylark, probably when they go. Coach famous words stylings, I know you have a lot of starlings in North America at the that plummeting in population in Britain that going king fishes going that book relations of slipping away. So, of course, is the creatures themselves. Go the plunge themselves go, so the names guy with them, and what's been amazing in in among the many responses to this book has been to see the language comeback into children's schools and also to see that the cat comeback so size since eisenson schools in Britain and increasingly across America in Europe using the book as a way to focus change and drive change and bring hope children that teaches busy rebuilding habits. Pets within school grind that that taking classroom days in some cases, they're even building classrooms within the school grind to to t t to work on the book, and the idea is above all the ideas, and the creatures at brings, and I think the power of the response that we've seen speaks of this this moment of of loss that also of of hoped that we're living through right now. And I point out you are not overstating the case of what an effect this volume this beautiful book has had. And I think the the guardian says it best in called it a cultural phenomenon. Well, thank you. It's it's a very hard thing to talk about. Because when signs one thing doing it, actually, I feel it's completely feel my control. We planted this lake on well, quite big golden they could back in a year ago in Britain. And and this Wildwood has as wished up into being from it that that is really know to do with us. So the book notes do these much bigger questions around our relationship with nature the natural world right now. But yeah, the the the unfurling of this book is beating like nothing I've ever seen before never will again. And and especially thrilling very humbling. So it it seems to me to say something about the way that coach can change if not politics at least societies and communities and the community spirit that has driven. I mean, people see kayak to remote islands to give copies of this book to to schools, they deliver them they hand deliver them by the size and school sometimes accompanied by Baen house and twenty hours while life trust. Behind it. It's it's become a strange symbol of of hope for change in a duck. Hi. Robert, thank you for this old strong magic that you have back to these words, and it's really really wonderful to speak with you. Thank you, and you think's too much by Robert McFarland is one of the co creators of the book the loss towards we reached him in Cambridge England. And if you'd like to see some of the rations from this book, visit our website, CBC dot CA slash h. And. On streets across the city of Winnipeg right now in neighborhoods, like fort Rouge, Wolseley or the north end. You will see white banners fluttering in the breeze. There are about nine hundred of them. And each one tells a story let he Lawrence is a Winnipeg artist she led a team Avante. Here's to create the banners. We reached her in Winnipeg that he what exactly are these banners? These banners are commemorate the individuals from Winnipeg who went to fight in the first World War and died in the first World War. Or is a result of the war say they were wounded or gassed, and they died really after November nineteen eighteen but it directly a result of the war, and can you describe them? Yeah. They're made from a hundred percent natural colored cotton flannel there about two feet across by well, maybe only eighteen inches across by about two and a half feet long. And they're handwritten with fabric markers on each one. I indicate the name of the individual either where they lived or where their family lived in Winnipeg. If I was able to find out their profession, I indicate they they went to fight in the great war and did not return, and then I indicate their birth and death dates and their age, and where do you do? Install them. They're installed on hydro poles as close as possible to the Andress that's on the banner. Uh-huh. So these are the places where the the men came from their homes. Yeah. That was part of the purpose of the project was to take this out into the communities. The neighborhoods of Winnipeg to get people to realize that this is where these these men came from and that they were much like your neighbors or your friends are today. How have people responded to having these banners in their neighborhoods? Oh, I've had a tremendous response. People have been very touched by one couple. They asked if they could keep the banner they're going to frame it. They want to keep it with house. So that it becomes a part of the history of the house. Another couple have decided to have a remembrance days here. Mony on their front lawn to commemorate the individual who lives there as well. I've had a high school teacher and asked me if after the end of the year, he could take down some of the banners and use them in teaching in future classes, and how did you do the research? How did you learn much about each of these men? Well, we're very fortunate here in Canada, the national archives have put as much information as they've been able to get online and also veterans of fairs Canada that has information online as well. But this is a real labor of love. What what inspired it why did you want to do this? Well, I've been interested in the first World War for quite a long time. When I was in Australia in two thousand thirteen there was a woman asking people to knit poppies to commemorate the grizzly landings in nineteen fifteen that was kind of trillions defining moment in the war. And when I came home to Winnipeg I was wondering what was win pay doing to commemorate. And I wanted to commemorate the end of the war as well. And I decided I don't I do something about it. And again, I wanted to take it out into the communities as well. And I know I know there's two parts of this project, and you have these you had these volunteers who helped you make nine hundred poppies to honor these Winnipeg soldiers, what does that part of the project poppies originally because I started making the poppy. Last year. And then some France of mine said, well, we could make poppies to. So it ended up we had poppy gatherings and made poppies and originally they were going to be attached to the banners themselves. But then I had a couple of friends point out that they might be removed from the banners. They might get destroyed. So I was able to reserve the blank teen gallery at the millennium library here in downtown Winnipeg. So that the poppies could be displayed their because they're all different. And next each poppy, there's a hand torn card with the name of the individual the address in the age and the title of this show is loved and we're loved yes, that's taken from John mccrae's poem in Flanders fields. I wanted people to think of these individuals as young men who loved parents of wife girlfriend children and intern. Turn they were loved by family, friends and neighbors some of the stories that really stood out for us. You learn them. Oh, well, I was just looking at one the Mon Livingston Patterson. He was a law student. He went to the university of Manitoba he enlisted in nineteen sixteen. He got pneumonia when he was here, but he returned to the front. He was the only son of judge George Patterson, MRs Patterson, and he was article at the time that he enlisted and he was killed in action over there. A couple of others. I looked at John Edward Severin and Vernon nickel seven. They were brothers and the first one enlisted in nineteen fifteen he was working in banking at the time, and he was killed in action in nineteen seventeen and his younger, brother. 'cause when he died he was twenty seven his young. Younger brother than enlisted in nineteen sixteen and he died of wounds, and he was only nineteen when he died. And so a mother lost two sons. Yes. And these will boundaries will stay up until the end of the years that right? Yes. That's right. We'll happen to them afterwards. After that they'll be taken down and the whole project is going to be donated to the army navy airforce Rockwood unit three oh three here in Winnipeg. And that was where the poppy makers gathered when we were making our poppies, and they expressed an interest in the project and asked what I was going to do with it. And if I would donate it to them. So that's what I'm going to do with it afterwards. Thank you for this project. It's it's quite extraordinary and really appreciated and thanks speaking with us. Thank you so much. Lettie Lawrence is an artist in Winnipeg. She let it him volunteers to create nearly nine hundred poppies and banners and owner of Winnipeg's soldiers young men who died in the first World War. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC radio one and Sirius XM you can listen to the whole show on the web. This Goto CBC dot CA slash AH and follow the links to our online archive. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. And I'm Jeff Douglas. For more CBC podcasts. Goto CBC dot CA slash podcasts.
Resource Resistance: Part 1 (ep 222)
"Hello. I'm Rick Harp. This is media and digital this summer of twenty twenty addition. On this week's collected connected conversations resource resistance. It was a struggle too big to ignore punctuated by striking video of back-to-back raids by militarized police raids against small indigenous encampments in a mostly forested area of what's now known as the North Western Central Interior of British Columbia. Yet, these dramatic events of Twenty nineteen and twenty twenty whatsoever and territory are but part and parcel of a much bigger picture. Their resistance to resource extraction pushback on a pipeline that if built would move two point, one, billion cubic feet defrocked natural gas per day carries loud echoes of battles across the world. Battles against. Fossil? Fueled climate. Catastrophe. For us to properly paint this bigger picture will need a canvas. To be stretched across two episodes. Given. Its global scale. It only makes sense we begin at the United Nations more specifically with the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous, peoples. Also known as under it. It's an international instrument that Canada like so many others, settlers, colonial countries dragged its feet signing for years. The fear that endorsing, it could be interpreted as supporting an indigenous veto over resource development. So it was no great surprise in two thousand sixteen when a senior politician with the liberal government hinted, they were looking into a so-called Canadian definition of the declaration. Joining me in April of that year to try and explain what the Hell that even meant was Hayden. King. Decorative director of the Yellow head institute at Ryerson University. We pick up our discussion with the distinction between free prior and informed consent and the Canadian government's duty of consultation. Well the duty to consult, which is a legal principle and effectively section thirty five. aboriginal. In the Constitution means. That governments federal provincial governments have an obligation to consult with indigenous peoples who have asserted or establish treaty right that may be negatively affected by some development might be a highway might be transmission line might be a gold mine. And if negatively affected, then they must be accommodated. So this is a duty to consult and accommodate. Peoples who are effectively in the way of development. Now Free Prior informed consent is a competing concept and much more rigorous I guess or or or allows for indigenous peoples to say. We approve of this development or we disapprove of this development and the free part of that means that there's no duress and making that decision. The prior is that all the information regarding the development of prevent presented before development begins informed means all of the information is provided, and then of course, that consent is the your name by indigenous peoples so much more powerful than the duty took insult. So with that in mind, let's turn to to last week when the Liberal Natural Resources Minister Jim car He was speaking before the House, of Commons Aboriginal Affairs Committee. Where he said that his government is quote in the process of providing a Canadian definition of the declaration on the rights of indigenous. Peoples. Unquote. So According to ABC in national, news car was short on details but alluded to something greater clarity of these definitions in reference to free prior and informed consent. Now previous liberal comments about the decoration haven't been nearly so coy ambiguous. What significance do you attach to two cars comments? I think it's significant I because it comes from Jim Carla, Minister of natural resources. So this is the minister that is essentially responsible in part at least for pipeline. So this is this is a minister that has a is is is GonNa you know his portfolio would be affected pretty dramatically if concept like free prior and informed consent where adopted and implemented in in the and context so I that that's significant but maybe it leads me to be a little bit more skeptical that Canadian definition of the declaration would actually honor the spirit of the declaration. You know and again, significance I'm not sure is the word that I would use here. But Jim cars kind of echoing similar comments made by. Chuck stall by John Dunkin to a lesser extent by Bernard, bellcore. Each of those federal ministers when asked about the declaration said. Things that you know, we have section thirty five, and we'll make sure that the declaration corresponds to section thirty five and the declaration is aspirational and and I think that there has been a tr- continuity in the approach by governments liberal or Conservative that they can make the declaration fit in the Canadian context and Bhai Canadian context I mean fit with their interests. To do things like build pipelines. The comments to me, and of course, as you said, they were tourists indicate that the Canadian government or at least one minister is not committed to fully implementing the spirit and intent of the declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples. So that's concerning. The declaration if the spirit of the decoration were adopted, would would give indigenous peoples in Canada fairly significant degree of power. And that power would determine what happens on the land, which may or may not prevent projects that provincial and federal governments believe are in the national interest. So the declaration is pretty threatening. I think to both levels of government and I think probably some Canadians would perceive at the same way. So I think it's just this this clashing of perceived interests. I think that you'll see I think you're gonNA see this relationship deteriorate very quickly and I wouldn't be surprised if we begin to see more local organizing and more people on the streets in the land and really pushing for pushing for that transformative change the liberals promising and haven't yet shown signs of delivery. Now. There's something of a caveat to all this according to critics however, much on drip may complicate governance for states in the end it's ultimately non-binding on them, which may explain the move last November by the government to pass a law that it claims would implement the UN Declaration as the framework for reconciliation and set out process to align and bring provincial laws into harmony with Andrea over time. It was part of a promise new Democrats made when they won power some two years prior in coalition with the BBC Greens an election we parked over back in May twenty seventeen with to BC based journalists Angeles stare to CBC Vancouver, and we'll make ten whose work has appeared on CBC and Discourse Media. We pick things up at the point when I asked how much Andrea mattered with the indigenous electorate in that province. A Huge from the from the people that I talked to you I mean anything that has to do with economic development on the land whether it's diversifying the economy whether it's sustainable development whether it's having more green energy whether it's you know in in the northwest and this decline in the scheme people talk about an economically depressed region were. Has Been in sharp decline There's been a couple of mining projects, but people aren't seeing the jobs that they were promised. So the the New Democratic Party I think stood out for people because they had that promise for respect development on first nations territories, which is something. The drip has a commitment to I know the BBC Green Party and their platform they promised to recognize. First nations as equals in land and resource development. So it's similar, but they don't have that stolid commitment for its part. The BBC liberal says it support partnerships between first nations and industry proponents to improve economic development opportunities which of course, you know if you read the platform of the BBC liberals, it's very focused on jobs and employment opportunities and an industry. Well, it's interesting right I. Mean, we spoke earlier about indigenous not being explicitly addressed however, issues that are of great concern to at least some first nations I'm thinking of sight see the major hydro dam development and kinder- Morgan Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. They seem to be very much on the election agenda throughout that campaign and in a way I mean those are almost like proxy issues as if aboriginal. Issues. became mainstream if you will. Yeah. No I think I think aboriginal people have always been a part of the platforms and especially now because our populations of the fastest growing. NBC But if you read their platforms, you know even if you just do a search for aboriginal first nations, everybody has a platform specifically that pertains to indigenous people and those includes you know areas where there's. Where they're sightsee people are addressing in their platforms, specific areas where indigenous people are important like in in childcare homelessness education. So I think we do see those those issues I think it was interesting that so many indigenous people were being courted by parties. Especially, the liberals in those key writings that were normally end ep that was very new we see. The most indigenous people emily's you know headed to Victoria. Now then we've ever seen in history how many we'll have been elected four I believe and I think there were seven candidates and they were candidates for all three main parties that we've been discussing so far liberal EP and Greens. Yes three from and EP three liberals and one from the Green. It's interesting to note that four indigenous candidates have been elected MLA and well, that's a sign of progress. So as to say. There have been only six in total NBC's history. Wow. So we'll me sometimes especially outside observers make the mistake or the assumption that. Indigenous people tend to vote in a in a block of a monolith when it comes to their politics how did this election potentially give the lie to that idea? It depends where the depends when Sh- I think they're all over the place much like it has with the federal election here you see indigenous votes with the EP UC. Indigenous votes with liberals I don't think this was too much different. It's interesting. You know some of the communities there is a community There's a fellow that I talked to Robert Dennis who's achieve on the island in Banfield who talked about you know he has a they have a proposal for an Ellen g project on in their community and. I think for some of the communities that you know there's an. Alliance that care. Noga up in the North West and I I think for some of the people who do have those interests and do you have those steaks that of course they're gonna go for liberal I think for people who are more focused on things like and there are a lot of people. That's why they voted. They voted because their former foster kids were there. You know they work with they have a socioeconomic position at hand, and so I think for for different people, it's going to mean different things I was surprised at the bold statement weaver made in a interview after the election results initial election results were announced. Christy Clark addressed media first, and then he addressed the media briefly afterward and when asked a question about Ellen G Ellen G, of course, being liquid natural gas. He very plainly said this being Weaver Ellen G is debt. Let's face. The fact is dead and I had to wonder in that moment what first nations communities that have put their eggs, the Ellen g basket, thought of that statement, and we'll think of that statement. Going forward, people do do think an even myself going oh? Is there an indigenous swing vote will know because we're all very individual people. There's two hundred more than two hundred and eighty eight first nations who are distinct distinct languages and communities, and we all have different and within those communities you know we we also don't all think the same though you have to keep all those different factors in mind and deform your. Basis of understanding that that indigenous people are are individuals we are part of communities but that doesn't mean that we're all thinking the same or that we're all on the same page. So so let me ask, will it matter all that? Much to the current trajectory of things like sight see and Kim Morgan Trans, mountain pipeline expansion who gets in? Should we be that cynical or are you hearing people say no, no, a this is. A big deal and it will matter a lot if the liberals are no longer in power well, I'll I'll say that that was one of the questions that I had from speaking to voters people who were voting because they you know a lot of people did vote for Justin. Trudeau. And and for some of those changes implementing Andrea was a big one and to see you know emails coming even with in recent days that. Indicate that they're not going to push forward under ratify it that you know those broken promises You know a lot of people. There's a lot of distrust, and so one of the one of the people that I interviewed had said you know if if this. If you're not voting for somebody at least send a message with your vote what going to the polls and physically people seeing indigenous people there that were here that we matter that our voice matters the platform. Let people know how many of us there are be. The candidates that I've heard from. They're very passionate about what they stand for and a lot of the candidates the indigenous candidates they weren't running on indigenous platforms per se. Right. So that's another thing to consider. I didn't hear the same kind of sort of enamored hope with this provincial election as I did during the federal election. We've seen this before and I don't think it surprises. People think disappoints people and I'll say we knew it. But I don't think it's surprising them that what was said during the election promises that are made the right kind of chords that are hit don't come to after the election. Well as I read on twitter because that's all I do is sit around all day reading twitter People reference how the end ep they were the party in power when gusts US Lake House, which is probably inch history for for a lot of voters but at the different time though I think absolutely. You would see that now I remember the dog shot someone injured military equipment brought in. that. was a crazy time. Get very different time very different times but yeah, you're right I never thought about that. That's an interesting point that did happen. They're also the party that brought the BBC treaty process into being. Like the the jury in the nineties were. Most, closely aligned with indigenous people with indigenous interests and really ultimately in retrospect with the do just using the treaty processes, at example, two treaties tops. Yeah and for the BBC Treaty protest trees are just languishing just waiting for stem to be processed and it's different tone for a relationship right and I think that's always the challenge for BBC and that's just a language that I don't hear since I've been back as we're all relatives we're all treaty people. There is still a very big divide people always think, Oh, you must be treated so badly and it's like well, no, we're just kind of ignored. We're treated with indifference. Cares you know, why should we talk about that? So a lot of people that I talked to during the election they talk about that reality being a reflection of not having treaties. People don't want you to just a fraction of land. You're just selling your land for peanuts, but there's people who think they make a difference in in a relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people. So all things for the candidates to think about moving forward, right? What kind of relationship or you can have with indigenous people and and then on engineers, people and making decisions moving forward. There's there's a lot of reasons why indigenous people don't vote right? We didn't get the right to vote. NBC? Until nineteen forty nine you know after the Chinese vote after the women got the vote, you know we were not able to participate in politics with against the law people don't have that trust people feel that there's no care for us in the province but you know if you want to be recognized I, think you need to do that. You know we're we're intelligent people. We we have thoughts were in powerful positions. The WE'RE GONNA, see more and more of indigenous people in. Political platforms moving forward. Or measure your closing thoughts I think about a couple of things what kind of a world awaits the indigenous as when they get Victoria and are in the legislature. I wanted to go jodie Wilson rebelled the federal minister when she was elected and that's this. What happens. When your party line on indigenous policy clashes with indigenous lying on that same policy, and possibly it could involve your own people there is. A lack of knowledgeable indigenous people and indigenous issues within the legislature and trying to move trying to move indigenous issues is trying to roll a rock uphill. Hof are have really come and what do indigenous MLA has walk into once they get into the legislature what are they going to do? How are they going to respond? What are they gonNA. Do when they hear catcalls that they don't like when they come up against policy. Issues where indigenous policy toes the party line or it could be and EP party light it could be Green Party line and it's not necessarily consistent with first nations aspirations first, nations views on what that policy should be in the clash. What are they going to think it's going to affect them differently as emily's who happened to be indigenous than other emily's those are my parting classes. You know what great unknown are they walking into? A? And of course, those unknowns got known pretty quick after the EP took power especially on the question of resource development and indigenous peoples because it's not just natural gas that has flared up in BC. Another source of contention has been hydro development and they don't get much bigger than sight. See An unassuming name for a mega project that once built will further ravage and reshape the ecology of that region forever with it the fates of the indigenous peoples. Who Live there and yet believe it or not. There was a point where construction could have been halted by the then new and EP Green coalition government, spoiler they did. But but the Lineman you say I, know, I, know trust us our minds went there to back in May twenty seventeen and by we I mean round table regulars Ken Williams Assistant Professor of drama at the University of Alberta and brought. Pittawan. Aquatic York. University associate professor of Indigenous Studies. End EP government claims it's going to study very seriously sightsee before making its decision in the coming weeks. First, nations in the area are trying to fight it. Adding their two sense is a report from an organization called or at least a sponsored by the social science research. Council are s are see. The name of the study is first nations and hydropower the case of British. Columbia's site C, Dam? Project. Now it it talks about how sightsee is the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken by British. Columbia originally budgeted at eight point three, billion dollars Canadian. It's now estimated at ten billion with further cost overruns likely. It's in its early stages of construction. It's designed to produce eleven hundred megawatts of capacity fifty, one, hundred gigawatt hours per year of energy starting in twenty. Twenty Four. Now over the past eighteen months. According to this study UB C program on Water Governance University of British Columbia. How thick reports on sightsee made a number of submissions to the British Columbia Utilities Commission This article the one we're talking about today. Is Some of those key findings with the goal of contributing to the ongoing public debate on the project and they say that they believe are research feels important gap because the previous provincial government that is the liberals exempted sightsee from review by the British Columbia. Utilities Commission. which regulates B. C hydro this this exemption occurred despite the fact that the federal and provincial governments own environmental joint review panel recommended review by the Utilities Commission. It's not super long. It's it's really worth reading talks about how indigenous communities have repeatedly highlighted how sightsee would severely impact treaty rights by flooding large sections of the Peace River valley, which is already extensively affected by previous hydro development. However, the question of treaty rights infringement was excluded from the. Of the Environmental Review Panel appointed by the provincial and federal governments as we just heard this forced affected treaty eight first nations to pursue the matter in the courts trying to apply for judicial review of a this particular decision. That didn't go very far. Yet, to be an approach in terms of infringements of Aboriginal Rights, Brock, this reminds me a lot of what happened in Muskrat falls in Labrador which was controversial from the start. As you know I, I'm just seeing this pattern and maybe it's backed super entrenched by now where Governments corporations they infringe first. And then apologize later. Yeah that's one of the criticism raised by indigenous people talking about this project among others as well that essentially this is a mega project that British Columbians do not need that the projections provided by the Crown Corporation. ABC Hijo are. In some ways incorrect in terms of forecasting, what the electricity demand will be, and that it's more likely that this project will end up costing money over the long term as there's GonNa be a surplus electricity that VC will have to sell at a loss or even recoup some of their costs. I. This was a an election issue in British Columbia. And it's going to be interesting to see how the minority government in your horrigan plays this as the government is committed to determining whether it's going to proceed with the project or cancel it at first local first nations tried to. Become more involved in terms of the consultations. They also looked at court action as civility is well, and of largely been denied, which is very much. In. A conflict with the federal government and the British. Columbia. Provincial governments stated commitments to the United Nations Declaration on the rights of indigenous people free prior and informed consent for resource developments, and certainly it Kinda flies in the face of a reconciliation rhetoric coming both from the provincial end EP NBC and a Liberal governments in Ottawa. Ken I talked about infringe I apologize later in this report that we're discussing now from the SRC, they actually have a nice line that talks about that as well. It says, indigenous leaders have condemned this bill I litigated during and compensate after approach as failing to honor trees and a betrayal of the honor of the crown as as a government interest or business interests will will create a fit accompli or an inevitability about something. This goes back a long way the Manitoba Hydro flooding the first nations communities there the great whale project back in the seventies that led to. Like a matthew, coon comes rise in national prominence because of how they protested great whale project, which went ahead anyway and late nineteen eighty s we had no Berta River dam project that was going to infringe on the lands of the again in the blackfoot and it went ahead and historically know historically what's going to happen is this damsel be built. It's GonNa Cause Damage at some point commission somewhere down the road maybe unit auditor general's or or a court is gonNA. Finally agree for stations concerns about infringement and say that you have to have consultation like meaningful consultation. Within affected indigenous communities before any major product supposed to go on, this has been hammered at the federal government. And also all developers for close to twenty years. Now it's almost. Like again, it's just going go to the Supreme Court. I think again at some point is. and. A bunch of money and nor apologies and or some sort of settlement is the be made on years down the road. Yeah. But here's the thing though it's one thing to build infrastructure like this. And make some money off of it. There's at least a justification for somebody on in this equation. But as this report points out, there's there's going to be or there is a glut of of energy they're going to have to sell it a loss which brock underscored. How are these things still going ahead brock do you have any insight here? Is it's the construction it's the perception of government acting in order to develop. Jobs and create infrastructure for future jobs, and it is a difficult situation to be sure for the government to project the expected lifespan for this site. C Dam is one hundred years and so for them to try to project even ten fifteen years ahead, what the electricity needs for the province will be what the market's going to be a British Columbia the last year. In some ways gambled on natural gas and sale with the attempt to create a new resource based economy in northern BC based on natural gas, and then prices dropped and the investment didn't really show up and I think that's part of the reason why previous government though is Christy Clark really was pushing hard for site see go ahead as an alternative to the natural gas. You know it's in the way we are in the way of this development and the only way is. is they got to start accepting that this I in digits concerns are legitimate concern and I know I say that way but that's something. That is like it's obviously not. We are obviously not a concern. They are just someone who has to be dealt with sue some regulatory commission or some sort of. Legal. Maneuvering and then development habits. And we page. or so I guess really what's going on right now one assumes is some kind of political calculus. It's not a question of whether whether the end EP will offend anybody or lose friends it. They just have to decide which friends CAN WE AFFORD TO LOSE MOST YUP But but once again, indigenous peoples are Kinda just left on the sidelines waiting to see dynamics play. Oh, where decisions are made. Hearing that again, I'm reminded of just how complicated the settlers side of the equation and get but frankly so can the indigenous side as here in this February twenty seventeen pairings of Brock Mitch on how the dynamics of hereditary systems of governance factored in to these thorny debates resources in another part of what we now call BBC. Our next topic is based in British Columbia but at its heart, it's a story playing out in some form or fashion within indigenous communities across the country. One that embodies a key challenge facing many first nations, how to practically an act and enabled traditional indigenous forms of governance especially when they've been marginalized for so long by outside forces in favor of Indian. Act Band Councils. Now meets the story came to our attention via the globe in Mail in an article entitled Hereditary Tribal Chiefs Matriarchs Challenge Pacific Northwest L. N. G. Critic it's lead paragraph reads as follows. A group of more than twenty hereditary chiefs and Matriarchs in the luck Williams first nation is crying foul over an aboriginal leader whose battle against A. B.. C.. Liquefied Natural Gas project includes a lawsuit. What would you add to help our listeners understand the basic conflict here including distance battle over over natural resource extraction that if it didn't quite precipitate this internal conflicts certainly inflamed, it will spark ignited if memory serves me correctly honor about. Close to the summer of Twenty fifteen if not, the summer of two, thousand, fifteen years ago. That's when. The protest camp went up. Proposal. Project is planned to be built. I think it's called blue. Island and there was a member of the first nation who set up a protest camp at the site that summer. He was raising among other things environmental and cultural concerns impacts actually that the. The Ellen G project would have in that part of the tribes, traditional territories and The matter has gone or his yes. Later to go to court. she is a member of the first nation he holds. Or says, he holds a hereditary title within one of the houses in the first nation. Is You've got another group headed by another man from the same first nation who says stop? He's not who he says he is. He doesn't speak for the nation. He doesn't speak for our house there lies schism we're talking about if you will one camp headed by Donald Wesley on the one side and then on the other Carl Sampson senior. and to be perfectly honest by interest in this story was not to kind of try and adjudicate these competing claims. Obviously, it's not our place to do so we won't go there, but that actually segues to the point I do want to discuss, and that is, how is it that members of an indigenous people engaged in what amounts to an internal dispute? have found themselves turning to an external body like courts to work things out. You have in some cases competing or complementary governance system certainly for how. People, you'll have a traditional longhouse in the band council in some cases working together on specific issues and others in quite similar sort of situations where they they may disagree on on of course of action for their communities. This has also happened for bake people the Roseau River community in southern Manitoba comes to mind where there is a traditional government alongside aband- council government. The key issue here is a lot of these tensions would be dealt with outside of public scrutiny at least in terms of the globe in Mail, they're taking these claims of authority to speak on behalf of the community or act on behalf of the community and actually putting them before federal court. You know this wouldn't be the first time that a nation has turned to the courts to. Settle, a traditional matter for a tribal matter. I'm sure there are internal processes with respect to their tribal laws that they could resort to, but instead the turn to the court. So it doesn't surprise. We did in this matter, but I'm sure it's not gonNa Lausd that the tribe is resorted to turning to the courts. The one part I agree that makes it challenging here. In this particular instance, there's a huge amount of potential investment and at play certain hereditary leaders are aligning themselves now with. The cooperation with the Pacific Northwest Helen g group and the federal government and the provincial government as a way of trying to strike down. Donnie Wesley. In his groups attempt to block the development. So I again, normally, the stakes in terms of tension in the community would probably not reach this height if not for the enormous potential investment that the terminal would represent for the province also for the country. It's good in a sense. And I careful how I say that Because it took an issue like this to awaken if I can say, don't the. Law Hereditary title to to awaken assert himself whether that says they fall on one side of the issue or the other but I'm seeing more and more communities where the traditional lawn traditional people people with traditional title hereditary title. Are beginning to cert- themselves. Yeah. I mean lest anyone think that there's an automatic equation of hereditary governance. With an anti pipeline agenda or an anti resource extraction agenda that that's clearly not the case here although I think a lot of people do kind of make that equation don't they. They do it again, the the matters become you know, but a lot of different things including this but what are the incentives that are being provided to these hereditary chiefs to? Criticize Mr Wesley and essentially make Kim seem as illegitimate as spokesperson and a representative of his nation. So again, this is I, think it's a very fluid. Situation and I I actually feel a lot of. Sympathy for Mr Wesley in terms of trying to be a guardian essentially for the environmental protection of this of legal island and the and the banks around. And yet, he's going to be coming under tremendous pressure where he seeing his own community Turning on him and joining with the federal government, the provincial government and the corporation to attack his attempt to protect that area, and that's where I think really the interesting conversations be happening at the community level about moral authority who at rests with whether it's with the elected band council chiefs with the traditional chiefs and whether they have received like respective of jurisdiction that the community accepts and how those are challenged when you have billions of dollars at play, and again, that's why I keep coming back to what really thrust this issue into into the into the public mind is concerned overbuilding eleven billion dollar Liquefaction terminal at. On this we will island. Money is a big issue here if not the linchpin issue you shake. In front of a community that suffering from abject poverty edited going to upset the social order that was your the way things were. The. Other thing I wanted to mention was that this issue is recent. But it doesn't surprise me that this come up this will probably come up again because number one the luck. Williams. Aren't the only first nation NBC that are buying for an L. N. G. project or vying for some piece of Ellen G project. There are others that are in the queue and this will likely come up again you often hear in situations like this that they appear demise that phrase divide and conquer. Do. You think that is here. Know, it's not like the divide and conquer issue. is something that was colonial and foreign and brought here and foisted upon us. that it was something new. I, think we divided and conquered in amongst ourselves long before the colonial Scott here having said this your insofar as the definition of a divide and conquer issue. This certainly fits that bill that issue your the way that it was sold you know it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread communities we're going to be a wash and resources jobs we're going to be plentiful there was gonna be chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. I think people foresaw but didn't talk about. The strife that would cause. Strife indeed though that no doubt feels like an understatement for those who went through what took place in January of Twenty nineteen when that first rcmp took place against a with SOA to campsite set up to resist the further construction of pipeline owned by the coastal. Gasoline. Corporation. A grassroots effort led by a cohort of hereditary chiefs. They're modest camp was overwhelmed by the paramilitary actions of the state taken to enforce an injunction obtained by the company. Actions are roundtable. Try their best to put in context at the time including Ken. Williams. Kim Tall Bear, associate professor of Native Studies at the University of Alberta and Candice Call US associate professor in the Institute for Critical. Indigenous Studies and the School of journalism writing and media at UB see. Candice where two things currently stand and what other information do people need to know. In order for them to to properly put this all in context. Without, going back through. Well, it's not that long actually I mean, that's the truth right? It's It's really believe eighteen hundreds when you start seeing settlers come to British Columbia and instead of continue to make treaties are such as they were across the rest of Cannibal. You can look at the number treaties and they stop basically at the border of what's more British Columbia a little bit of tree goes into the north. That's really the bigger context for British Columbia and there have been many court cases that have come out of the sea that have supported in business title and rights and said that treaties need to be married One of the most important is Doug. Began in Nineteen eighty-four when it involved to get signed on with. People who are for stations right next to each other it's important for two reasons one, the Supreme Court did end up affirming indigenous title and rights and need to make a treaty but also brought in oral history as an important form of evidence on end part of that oil history was explaining how land was. Divided, according to houses and clancey can look back and all of those documents and they would help you understand what's happened. In the last few days here in what so attained territory where there is a to different clans who have been defending a part of their territory but also reoccupying, it's not a potent -instinians. A lot of people have been have been careful about saying this is this is not these are not protestors user people actually exercising their indigenous right when that is you know has been reaffirmed by the courts. So this pipeline you know It looks like the elected chiefs had signed onto the pipeline by the hereditary chiefs who are very much presence in food in with certain territory do not support the pipeline and You know the the people who are at a very important juncture on the pipeline. This area is called the house in. STOUGHTON is how a lot of people say but I've learned from looking at Angeles Jarrett's twitter video that is actually UNICEF. Dodd in that Yuna, started house has set up at long term encampment there in. So this week we really saw it come to the fore where. Are Supe- came in and Allen Chidren move at least one of the checkpoints arrested fourteen people eventually the RCMP and the hereditary chiefs from what sites in hereditary chiefs negotiated. For some kind of or when call it a truce. But you know the RC NPR understanding down this is not Is Not an end to what is happening. There's going to be I think more negotiation needed. That court case, Doug, which is so huge in terms of its spillover effects. Coup were the people who were litigating. Was it the elected councils? No, it was the hereditary chiefs, the same type or if not the exact same group who are leading this fight now. So the story is almost I think in in many ways a microcosm. For where we where we've come in this relationship. Yeah I mean, it's powerful. Good. It's happy here where you know welcoming relief making indigenous law like what's so attend long at San Law and practices and clan systems and houses under like that is all very legible like I said you could. You know dive back into Duncan move and figure out. What the system is that governs what so in practices in? Terry chiefs are a well-defined. They were the ones who brought the case before the Supreme Court so that this would be happening in this territory is, is just like a a moment huge history of. The funniest. You have have any of you. Ever I'm sure you have candidate to step back and said. Could there be a more colonial name for province than British Columbia. You've gotten the British part, right but then you've got combat which I presume is named after Columbus but So it's just like what anyway know it's also one of the most densely populated and there's eleven different language groups in what's now British Columbia I mean because you know the the coastal area had was very densely populated and you know there's still very robust for stations along there but also through the. Interior you know this is a province that was rich in in people and resources so that it would not have treaties that it will have this name British Columbia, pretty thick I mean BC. As a unified jurisdiction is is a false jurisdiction in terms of all the diversity just basically collapses away the whole overriding issue. What sort of grounds all of this is, is that the assumption of ownership on the Canadian State enforces these like incredibly complex societies and you know try to educate gains about the fact that there's is there's a form of governance that still exists in territory within Canada that predates I don't know how far can we go back like it predates Vikings at predates the royal family in Great Britain, which that has been the comparison as well that I've seen on media. Tying into the assumption of ownership. The assumption that this is that this is Canadian Land Damn Canada. Has the right to do it, and it's also like the assumption that we are also going to be extinct. That we would not here anymore. They carnell tickets coming home to roost. It's a reminder that the colonial arrogance that was at play when by this point in the westward expansion. Of Of what became Canada? They felt what? Why do we need to make a treaty with disappearing people's right I mean that if you're looking for a thread through all of Canada's early policy The knock on effects of which were living with today is that the assumption was we were going to disappear. We're going to be washed away over the dam. Indians just won't die go away. So inconvenient. Yeah. I was interested in I. Think you you in Scott to this a little bit in the difference between hereditary chiefs and elected band councils. We don't really have that formal division of traditional and elected governance in tribes. Last, we have certainly traditional people in community that are cultural leaders and might have lineage among traditional chiefs, but it's not it sounds like it's more formal appears. So that's that's really interesting to me. But. We certainly have the same kinds of. Debates within our communities. We might have elected tribal leaders who are really interested in institution building in bringing economic resources to the tribal community making decisions that are more collaborative with resource extraction than we would agree with right so that that's interesting to me. So the hereditary chiefs system is not in all nations in BC it's it's really very prominent among Northwest Coast Som- along the southern coast is not many of these systems in the interior first nations. The way it works is through the nation is divided into clans and then the clan have houses and. The chiefs are from lines of chiefs and They are tasked with carrying for the land and caring for the people in their clowning in their house and a lot of the the governance structure is undertaken with the fee system right alongside. So the pot latch is away for alliances to be made for wealthy redistributed but also for these forms of governance for names to be passed on names, which are a part of the hereditary system as well. Also, if you were at chief, you would inherit on the name of an older chief who had passed on you You would inherit the responsibility. You know that that's the big thing. Right? Is really about responsibility on lake. Say. Monarchs in Europe words about wealth and so what happened when Indian Act came in is than a voting system came into place and Indian. Achieves have generally coexisted with a hereditary system mean you know it's really different. Everywhere. In terms of how good a shape, the hereditary system is in how strong and influential it is you know most INDIANAP- chiefs don't also have hereditary. Chief and so sometimes, an attorney chiefs have also ran for election I mean that's happened in in many first nations and that's always really interesting right in BC. What they did is they really learn for what happened in the rest of the country in the south in the united. States and so what they did is they check first nations in divided them into as many barnes is they possibly could, and so then you have these Indian act band chiefs. are still part of the same language group are still part of the same for station or even still part of the same heard Terry governance structure but basically, it's like superimpose different structure according to however the Indian agent decided that the bounds should be divided just just prior to their disappearances they get washed away by the superior Canadian civilization, of course. My husband is from the insult comic nation. They were considered the really contentious people there in the Interior sailors. So from around the suspension bridge merits area and they divided them into thirteen bans like the smaller, the better because then they could play off of each other, they could manage them separately. So it's really about making things legible making manage borough ends potentially being able to play off each other. Before I hadn't conquer what? There are many reasons underlying the opposition to resource development. One that may be less discussed than it should is the threat posed by so-called man camps, a long standing and common feature of all construction sites whatever the resource or mega project involved a topic I unearthed with. Ken and Brock back in September of two, thousand eighteen. Let's begin this week's program in northern Manitoba Site, extensive hydroelectric development, and correspondingly the site of extensive controversy. Not least a recently released report by the province's Clean Environment Commission which contains allegations at construction of at least one of these dams coincided with years of sexual and physical abuse against the local residents of Fox. Cremation abuse said to be perpetrated in the nineteen sixties by some of the literally thousands of outside mostly male workers brought in to construct the mega. Project and you know brock despite the efforts to promote hydro as clean green source of renewable energy. I think it's pretty clear from an indigenous perspective that that the imposition of such hydro dams in their territories have been devastating ecologically to say the least but I'm not so sure that this aspect the social impacts have been so publicly and broadly discussed. And again most of the news coverage is focusing on this one community and this one dam and I wonder what we would find if we dug deeply into most if not all hydro-dams, your thoughts and all. This is something that's been coming up most recently around pipeline construction and other resource extraction projects. The phrase I've seen refers to man camps and specifically what happens to communities. When there's an influx of workers for whether it's mining or again my oil and gas work. And a lot of these men are single away from or away from their families and I mean the potential for Problems to develop. Concert arise through drinking, and in the specific report you mentioned they talk about. Issues arising where. people were coming into the community in abusing community members, attacking men attacking women treating children discriminating against them when you do have outsiders come in on mass and if they're coming in without a lot of. Respect, or understanding about the indigenous peoples of that area. It seems that these types of occurrences would be frequent sadly and continue to the present day Ken where does your mind go with this story? I know from my time when I was still working with the average of people's television network I did a story about the Churchill River system and that damn was right down the river like you throw a rock and you could hit the Sandy Bay community in the Sandy Bay first nation and the damn wreak havoc with the environments and they had no control when that dam was going to release water or hold water and affected their drinking water and affected their fishing. Heavily affected their hunting, and so it's just these everything that that this project involves on the have no local indigenous consideration. Of course, leads many different types of abuse and you know you have economic abuse, of course, sexual abuse, and if you just look down upon people who are your neighbors and you create a stressful situation particularly with man camps, it's just inevitable. That's that's proven. Wasn't there poster going around about the transplant pipelines in the worries but the man Kam Coming in. I think justified. Now does it go without saying that the bulk of these workers are non-indigenous at bet you the vast majority of them were non local just like they weren't substantial. You know it really does cement links between ecological and social disruption and destruction by an outside force I mean four thousand, Manitoba Hydro, workers, I mean that's relative to a few hundred folks in in in the region it it really paints a disturbing picture. Yeah. For me that one of the first times that I've heard that phrase man camp in relation to of violence or exploitation of of women girls as really been. As part of the broader social movement around missing murdered indigenous women and girls. So I think they've been very effective in making that connection and this is well documented. Historically, we can take back to its especially parent in instances where there's been some kind of resource rush look I'm thinking in terms of mining in northern Canada or anywhere with the certainly in places like Yukon. Northwest Territories really across across Canada. If there was a discovery, you would have prospectors move in and absolutely there were lots of instances of abuses against a local indigenous communities and his Ken mentioned earlier. Most of the time indigenous peoples were not participants in whatever. Sort of economic prosperity followed from that resource rush intend very much. The opposite tendency was for them to be driven away in order to allow settlers to monopolize whatever that new resource would be and I, I think in terms of the approach that hydro has had in the north, it has been in many ways a similar approach where they're the, we've heard many instances of this where you have these massive hydro projects set up. And then local indigenous communities aren't even connected to the grid. So they don't even benefit from the very basic resource that's being exploited there, which is the creation of electricity that stuff for the ship South the phrase man camp is something that has has been very powerful for me in terms of focusing. On how indigenous people are specifically exploited. When these are resource extraction projects moving. There's a phrase I've heard an IT's coming to mind definitely hearing both of you speak about how essentially you know the northern hinterland quote unquote is rendered a sacrifice zone to the benefit of people who live in the city. So they can have power, they can have water they can have all the the raw material that's extracted from indigenous lands converted into all the things that that city people enjoy. And then we you know the thing we have to really come to grips with is this something they know is going to happen in other words. Do they know the exploitation of resources expectations of people around him or like they want to paint this as just unhappy incident I. Think we are on the verge hopefully finally looking at this and seeing that the. That, the exploitation of resources without adequate input local indigenous population is another act of genocide. Thus concludes the first half of our longer look at the bigger picture of resource resistance as seen through the battle lines drawn within wet SOHAN territory. In partout will revisit the return of RCMP this past February the Canada wide blockades and rallies in its wake and how media frames worked to contain audiences understanding of it all. Thanks for listening to this summer twenty twenty edition of Media Indigenous Episode Two hundred, and twenty, two edited and produced by your host. Rick Harp. Thanks as well to everyone who appeared on this week's retrospective. They care everyone. Say. Rid of Commons music. This episode includes headway by angle time by Petro, Santiago time to go home by anonymous four, twenty habit binoche term or T. R. M one march day by smaller tied and Aurora by Kevin Hart. Links to all of these works maybe found in our show notes.