19 Burst results for "Murphy Paul"

"murphy paul" Discussed on WorkLife with Adam Grant

WorkLife with Adam Grant

04:34 min | 9 months ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on WorkLife with Adam Grant

"In the meantime, here's a conversation I had on the next big idea podcast. It's with science journalist extraordinaire Annie Murphy Paul, who challenged my deep seated belief that we do our best thinking inside our brains. If you like it, you can hear more episodes of the next big idea wherever you're listening. Hey,.

Annie Murphy Paul
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

05:03 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"It seems like there's two separate phenomena. So the multiples will and I do think it's related to what you're talking about. I do think that when there's a certain amount of shared expertise in the air, and people, there is something that's ripe if you have that expertise and intelligence the talent, the background, the resources, all these perfectly. There are multiple people with perfect storms. They have the bold perfect storms that I think can independently come up with it. But I don't have a good. There's another different phenomenon because I was just thinking like, are there instances where a great discovery happened? And there really wasn't great here in expertise. And there are a few instances throughout human history, where that is the case. And now I'm not going to get all ancient aliens on you. I don't think it's like, you know, they were Tapping into the Akron record. It's called ancient aliens. Actually, I was in an episode of ancient aliens on genius. So that's why I joke about this because I was actually the expert in that episode. And they manipulate what I said. I was trying to be very scientific about it and then this guy was like, well, could it be that they were Tapping into the aliens? But I didn't say that. But there's got to be an explanation for it. And you know, at the end of the day, I think that maybe, you know, there is something to be said for talent. There is something to be said for. Some of these prodigies, these child prodigies have a certain genetics that they can be traced to their ancestors who had certain expertise. So I'm not actually rolling out the idea of epigenetic transmission, you know? And that's the shared expertise throughout the ages. Intergenerationally. So that's another one. That is that is. So talk about cutting edge. I know, I know, it really has got it really is. So we talk about it in that first one that I 7 years ago that I recorded was more about the science of learning. The science of learning, yeah. Yeah. But I want to listen to it again after this. Yeah. Yeah, that would be really fun. We know so much more now. We're here right now. There are a lot of things I wish I didn't know. I know. I was more naive then. Right. The line from above Seager song which I didn't know now would wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. Yes, exactly..

Akron Seager
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

The Psychology Podcast

10:04 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

"Related concept in cognitive science literature deters socially distributed cognition very mouthful. Yeah better together is much much more concisely. Talk did you I mean the years you took writing this book. Did you delight in inertly out over the scientific neighbors. I mean i can just imagine spending as where you weren't necessarily writing but you were going on google scholar and look you know looking at all. The weight is kinda stuff. Scott you know me. Well i think i i imagine you have done the same thing too. I have a sneaking feeling. Yeah i totally geek. Out about the journals. And that's why this book thome took me so many years because it does cover a lot of different disciplines. A lot of different strands of research. And yeah oh. I totally geek out about the research. And what's exciting is that there's more of this research coming out. Every day on embodied cognition on situated cognition on socially distributed cognition. I really feel like were. Maybe at the at a turning point where you know the i think the old brain bound conception of thinking is just not adequate anymore and we're realizing that there's so there's so much more to what goes on when we when we think and so to me the the research is pointing really exciting. New directions really. Oh well along those lines what are you. What some recent stuff that. You're most excited about excited about Had its shoes. Oh gosh and what. We haven't really talked much about gesture. I find gesture really fascinating. Because i tend to be someone who talks with her hands a lot and i love the idea for example that often are most advanced or most cutting edge yard our newest ideas that we can't quite put words to yet show up in our hands. I you know there's in some movement of our hands. We managed to capture some element of what we're trying to express verbally. And then we can read off that self-generated information you know. We can read off our own hands that can inform our sort of emerging verbal explanation for Of what we're what we're trying to get at. And so i love the idea of Naturally encouraging students and others to to move their hands but also creating occasions where gestures or more likely to happen like people are more likely to jester when they're asked to give an impromptu explanation for something in front of an audience because to speak in an impromptu way like that is really cognitively taxing so we tend to off load some of that burden onto our hands. We also gesture more when there's something to gesture at you know some kind of artifact or model or map or diagram and so and you know the research suggested the more we gesture as we're trying to work something out in our heads the the the greater our understanding the more accurate our memory so we actually want to be getting people to gesture as much as possible. I find that really fascinating. It is fascinating it's also can be used as a manipulation tool for marketers. Who don't really want you to pay that much attention to the words. They're saying distract found that. Just because like i. I grew up like a disabilities so i became hyper. Hyper tune into non verbal communication. And yes and i actually cringe. When i watched some of these people you know like like motivational gurus and people you know like some some of them on youtube five things that will help you breen and and they're likely overdo it with a hand motions but like i actually listen to the words. They're saying about that. So scott i i you know i do. I write in the book about how entrepreneurs who are making a pitch for their their proposed venture when they employ the skilled use of gesture. They j- they attract more funding. Now they maybe they're they. That goes for the charlatans as well as the earnest well meaning entrepreneurs but I tend to think of gesture as another channel of communication and so that channel could be used could be as forgot our allies. Plus absolutely i mean it can be used like i said we used to manipulate. I mean that can be good. Are you wanna to convince certain foods. Mercy's you know. Maybe that are worthy manipulate. But um oh boy what what other topic. What have i missed. What have i missed. I feel like we covered. We covered a lot thinking bodies surround. Now there's something. I think is super coal by your book the way the we over the way we can wilder ideas nope and things. I've long argued in the field of intelligence that we focus too much on working memory capacities the corner aspect of human intelligence and that you can get a lot more intelligence out of people especially diverse people who issues By allowing them to take these things by unwielding reminds me that i think it's just tells nicely with a lot of that is interesting scott. I mean i've been arguing since the book came out. Made the point on a bunch of podcasts. That people who who learn differently or think differently are often kind of leading the way in terms of extending the mind because because their brains don't work the same as as other people's because they're narrow narrow narrow atypical. Is that how you say it north. They diversion they have had to develop ways of thinking outside the brain and using skillfully using resources You know and not and not thinking in the conventional way but But developing often very ingenious solutions that involves thinking outside the brain so and that there's a lot we have to learn from people who who've encountered challenges in conventional classrooms and workplaces. You know because they've been forced by necessity to come up with really ingenious ways of thinking outside the brain and cognitive offloading as you mentioned is is one of those ways just getting. I think all of us can benefit from getting that stuff out of our head onto physical space where we can manipulate ideas. As if they were objects or navigate through them as if they were a physical three dimensional landscape. Because those are the things we evolved to do me do so effortlessly and easily and to keep it all in our heads again doesn't doesn't do. Justice doesn't draw on all this the capabilities and resources that we have as human beings. What's the benefit of lake copying experts. Yeah well in that chapter on experts. I talk about and i'm sure i know you know this research. About how by virtue of being experts. You know experts. Find it very difficult to articulate for a novice. Exactly how they do what they do. Because it's become automated for them. It's become second nature in a way that they're not even that's not even accessible to them anymore and yet our systems of education our systems of workplace training they rely on experts teaching novices. So we really need to think harder. I think about how experts can become more legible examples. for novices so that they can become more easily copied. Because you know that's another bias in our culture that i'd like to push back against this idea that innovation and originality is always better than emulation an imitation because You know imitation used to be at the core of of education for centuries that was it was understood that to master a body of knowledge or a particular skill you emulated the people the masters the people who did it the best and you learn how to do it sort of from the inside that way and only then. Could you add your own twist. There was famous professor of composition rhetoric. Who liked to say imitate that. You may be different. But you. I have to master the fundamentals and an imitation can be the most efficient and effective way of doing that. So i'd love to see the stigma that that attach to imitation currently in our society to love for that to fade away. Yeah well that. And the not like journal. Air sorta way we don't know yeah plagiarism. More like an apprenticeship apprenticeship crunched mastering eight and sharing expertise so important for A lot of scientific discoveries. But i've always been fascinated. This idea of multiple. You know ideas. Grady is seemed to be in the air. You know if you have a certain level expertise and obviously that that expertise nana vacuum is not in a vacuum in some cases it is. There's the this guy he. I think he independently discovered came up with calculus. We've literally no knowledge of the other information that had been going on. It's amazing isn't that. Do you have a theory about that about why that happens..

scott breen Scott google youtube Grady
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

05:08 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"Boy, what other topic? What have I missed? What have I missed? I feel like we covered. We covered a lot thinking when our bodies thinking with our surroundings. Now, well, here's something I think is super cool about your book. The way that we can the way we can unload our ideas into notebooks and other things. I've long argued in the field of intelligence that we focus too much on working memory capacity is the core aspect of human intelligence and that you can get a lot more intelligence out of people, especially neurodiverse people who work from memory issues. By allowing them to take these IQ tests or things by unloading it from your mind. So I've made that argument. I think it's just dovetails nicely with a lot of the things we're talking about. That is interesting, Scott. I mean, I've been arguing since the book came out, I've made the point on a bunch of podcasts that people who learn differently or think differently are often kind of leading the way in terms of extending the mind because because their brains don't work the same as other people's because they're atypical. Is that how you say it? Yeah. They divergent. Neurodivergent, yeah. They have had to develop ways of thinking outside the brain and using skillfully using resources and not thinking in the conventional way, but in developing often very ingenious solutions that involve thinking outside the brain. And that there's a lot we have to learn from people who've encountered challenges in conventional classrooms and workplaces, you know, because they've been forced by necessity to come up with really ingenious ways of thinking outside the brain. And cognitive offloading, as you mentioned, is one of those ways. Just getting I think all of us can benefit from getting that stuff out of our.

Scott
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

04:54 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"And related concept in the cognitive science literature is socially distributed cognition. Very mouthful. Yeah, better together as much, much more. Did you I mean, the years you took writing this book, did you delight in nerding out over the scientific papers? I mean, I can just imagine spending days of where you weren't necessarily going on Google scholar and looking at all the latest kind of stuff. Scott, you know me well. I think I imagine you have done the same thing too. I have a sneaking feeling. Yeah, I totally get out about the journals, and that's why this book tell me so many years because it does cover a lot of different disciplines, a lot of different strands of research and yeah, I totally geared about the research and what's exciting is that there's more of this research coming out every day, you know, embodied cognition on situated cognition on socially distributed cognition. I really feel like we're maybe at the turning point where I think the old brain bound conception of thinking is just not adequate anymore. And we're realizing that there's so much more to what goes on when we think. And so, to me, the research is pointing in really exciting new directions. Yeah, yeah, it really explains along those lines. What's some recent stuff that you're most excited about? What are you most excited about? How to choose? Oh gosh. What we haven't really talked so much about gesture, I find gesture really fascinating because I tend to be someone who talks with her hands a lot. And I love the idea, for example, that often our most advanced or most cutting edge or our newest ideas that we can't quite put words to yet show up in our hands first. You know, in some movement of our hands we managed to capture some element of what we're trying to express verbally. And then we can read off that self generated information. You know, we can read off our own hands that can inform our sort of emerging verbal explanation for what we're trying to get at. And so I love the idea of not only encouraging students and others to move their hands, but also creating occasions where gestures are more likely to happen. People are more likely to gesture when they're asked to give an impromptu explanation for something in front of an audience because to speak in an impromptu way like that is really cognitively taxing. So we tend to offload some of that burden onto our hands. We also gesture more when there's something to gesture at..

Scott Google
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

The Psychology Podcast

09:00 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

"For sure. I think i wanna talk about information. And we both talked to her at the same time. Something there about it about the extended mind where we were. We were so in sync that we both at the same pause did the same hand i think so i mean i right in the chapter an on interception about how the way we know how another person feels is that we subtly mimic their Their facial expressions their posture their gestures. And then we kind of read that off our own bodies and that gives us. That creates a channel. I understand that otherwise inaccessible feelings of another person. So maybe in that moment scott you and i were engaged in that kind of interest of dance. Greg were able to illustrate that people who watch the video. You can watch that happen in real time on planet. I do want to do a segue into talk about information. Overload a really important topic that you me about your book and i really enjoyed that discussion yearbook and the extent to which you know we have this bombardment of information. We too much for a conscious mind to resume. We're not privy to the extent to which our unconscious minds are it's influencing our unconscious right and i just wondering if you could talk a little about perhaps how people who design social media platforms are other sort of News outlets etc. Take an account some of the principles. You don't combined your book so interesting in terms of information overload thinking about. Yeah yeah interesting. Okay i have. I have two thoughts. There one is that. I make the argument in the book. That are the biological brain is kind of operating at peak capacity at this point. And there's so much information coming out us. Our expertise is so special. Is our problems as you've made reference to a couple of times are so daunting that the biological brain on its own is not really up to the task that we really have to acquire what i call a second education in thinking outside the brain at skillfully using these external resources in order to meet that meet the moment really of you know what our world demands of us and then the other thought i had you know i talk about non conscious information acquisition in the chapter on interest option. Because that was the explanation. Just like the nature loving stuff. I initially approached the idea of of Intuition that's informed by interception with a little bit of skeptic skepticism like You know gut feelings like how often like how would that work like that. Sounds a little mystical but idea or the Research the research suggests. Is that as you were saying. There's so much information coming at us all the time just in daily life that are conscious minds can't absorb it all but we can store and register and store a lot of that in our in a non conscious way in terms of noting patterns and regularities and but these these patterns are too complex for our conscious minds to really to us to be able to articulate in a conscious way so the way we have access to those those helpful patterns and signals is is through. The the those introspective cues. You know that's a you know a sudden sort of tightening in your stomach or a sudden elevation your heart rate. That's what that's your body telling you this pay attention. This is something even counted before. You've you've you've had maybe had a similar experience before and this is how you acted. So we get access to all that non non consciously stored information through the body. And that's why it's so important to be attuned to what the body is telling you otherwise you're missing out on on all that the richness of that information that you actually do process. I think it's a really good point you're talking about how is it. Different from intuition how you know rationality decision-making researchers refer to intuition is similar is it is it different because a lot of them argue that always strikes me how much how you know. It's such a strong current and our culture to want to see ourselves as perfectly rational as as computing machines. And i just really take a different view that we have this incredibly rich source of of wisdom and knowledge and information. That's there with us all the time in our bodies. And why wouldn't we take advantage of that. Not not that. We shouldn't be that we should act on it. Uncritically and in fact i describe an exercise in the book called keeping an intercept interceptor journal which means Sort of tracking which involves tracking your interest emptive sensations. And what they're telling you and then if you act on them how the how that decision turned out just looking at interception and our our bodily signals as another source of information. That can possibly be very informative. I'm not that we should base everything on that. But i don't think it's smart to base everything on rush on pure rationality either. Yes so it sounds like this. You're arguing not at all incompatible with a mindful way of life you know you can use that you can be aware of the information coming through your body and you can also be mindful of of whether or not you wanted to apply it right right and then just to you know you mentioned expertise there a moment ago and i do think that the extended mind has implications for how we think about expertise because i think our brain bound notion of expertise that the expert does it all in his head. You know that that. He's the chess grandmaster who never has to has to do anything except sit there and cogitate you know and i think if you look at how experts actually operate in in the real world. These are people who know how to use their bodies who know how to pay attention in a skilful way to their internal signals who know how to use space who know how to use relationships. That's an away. The essence or the core of their expertise and their skill is that they do use their extended mind in an incredibly skilful ineffective way and. That's something novices actually could emulate rather than thinking that as you become more expert you become more brain bound. I think it's just the opposite. You extend it to To culturally and socially say better together. Why does your word scott. I'm very characteristic. I think of you. Oh cool Well you do argue that engaging in synchronous activity maybe those are your words. Synchronous kronius activity with others. is can be very beneficial and And i thought this kind of cute The effect of eating families heightened if food is served family style. And it's very spicy. Yeah not even just as a family but as a group like a a team or a class of people. yeah because The way we get on the same page you know intellectually or mentally with people and we can do that. By sort of hacking the are bodily systems which which respond to synchronise movement. As you're saying like when we when we're moving together when you're are or your head moves at the same time my head moves it. It's it's sort of Flip the switch. What jonathan hike calls the hive. Switch you know this like Which is his metaphor for like switching from an eye orientation to a we orientational moammar moving. Together it feels kind of like we're one being you know and then when we not only moved together as as one but also have intense feelings or experiences whether those are physiological experiences emotional experiences when we feel together we also feel like we're we can get on the same page mentally in a a a more effective way so the idea behind eating together as like you're actually. There's something about eating together that's meaningful. Of course you're sharing resources you're sharing food. But you're also in an informal way of synchronizing your movements everyone sort of lifting there for to their mouths and chewing and you know and then also when you eat. Something spicy are all experiencing together this. This physiological arousal. So there's a kind of glue that binds together when they've had all these shared experiences for sure.

scott Greg chess jonathan
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

04:14 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"Our expertise is so specialized, our problems as you've made reference to a couple of times are so daunting that the biological brain on its own is not really up to the task that we really have to acquire what I call a second education and thinking outside the brain at skillfully using these external resources in order to meet the meet the moment really of what our world demands of us. And then the other thought I had, you know, I talk about non conscious information acquisition in the chapter on introspection because that was the explanation. You know, just like the nature loving stuff, I initially approached the idea of intuition that's informed by interoception with a little bit of sketch of skepticism, you know, gut feelings like how often, how would that work? That sounds a little mystical, but the idea or the reason of what the research suggests is that, you know, as you were saying, there's so much information coming at us all the time just in daily life that our conscious minds can't absorb at all. But we can store and register and store a lot of that in a non conscious way in terms of noting patterns and regularities and these patterns are too complex for our conscious minds to really us to be able to articulate in a conscious way so the way we have access to those helpful patterns and signals is through those introspective cues. You know, that's what a sudden sort of tightening in your stomach or a sudden elevation in your heart rate. That's what that's your body telling you. You know, this pay attention, this is something you've encountered before. You've maybe had a similar experience before, and this is how you acted. You know, so we get access to all that non consciously stored information through the body. And that's why it's so important to be attuned to what the body is telling you..

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

The Psychology Podcast

08:30 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

"At all i mean are there. It's it. Seems intuitive like intuitively to me that there are moments where my mind is just to myself. I want it to be out that out of my head now. You know what. I'm saying like mitt. There certainly are moments when we're thinking and it is just contained to to our body. Isn't that right or no never is is the does the mind ever stop at the at the at the skull is that does that. The question like or does it always extend that is is always visiting. Yeah i think. I would say there are always an extended mind. I've never been asked that question. So i'm i'm really thinking about it. But for one thing the fact that we have language the fact that we have structures of sod and conventions of thought those are all relics artifacts of our interactions with other people. Right so in a sense we have no thoughts without other people without our social experience of a lifetime. So i think from the very beginning. Our minds are extended. I don't know that there's any way around that. Because of their influence Like the influence of the environment on the fox were thinking. Yeah and we're always doing our thinking in a particular body always doing our thinking in a particular place grow is doing it in some kind of social context even when we're alone so yeah i don't think i don't think thought is ever not extended you know i'm very interestingly genius giftedness giftedness and and kids that can do amazing calculations in their head into are capable of learning far beyond their years There's a certain certain part where they they can clean the credit for the brain that the their unique bring they have and then there's another hand of lot of the some of the rich resources. A lotta them may have had and asks you table so it seems like. There's there's a mix like i don't i don't think you want you're going and so far as to suggest that there's there's no Brain process sees that are you. I don't get that from you. Yeah no no. I would never want to say the that the brain is not central to thinking. I just i. I like to think of it. In terms of redefining the brain's role. Not as the place where it all happens but rather a more dynamic kind of role of like i like to compare it to an orchestra conductor like to someone to the entity. That's coordinating all these resources and bringing them all together and we think about sinking in that way to me. It opens up all these options. Because now you're it's not a matter of just sitting there working your brain until the task is done. You have all these other resources to draw on. You know maybe you need to go for a walk or maybe you need to have a conversation with a friend or maybe you need to act out. You know what you're the problem you're trying to solve with your body and with your gesture so to me it's a very optimistic vision of of of our potential and how we can expand our potential definitely optimistic definitely and optimistic and also as you as you point out. It can give us compassion for for Sub optimal conditions. So it's not always optimistic. In the sense you know some people are in certain environments where their extended mind is is drek as my father would say. Well yeah i mean. I'm real and that's why i think there's a there is another blindspot here when we're talking about. Judging people on wet presumably or or sensibly their brains are able to produce and and judging their their outcomes as if their brains are the end of the story but because the raw materials that we have to think with are such an important aspect of our ability to think intelligently it matters the quality of the raw materials that we have access to and whether we know how to use them skillfully so once you bring that aspect into awareness it seems crazy to me to judge people on their their ability to think intelligently as if all that matters is inside their brains and not to look at the wide angle lens of like. But you know what are they free to move. Their bodies are they in a place that is quiet and orderly and supportive of of intelligent thinking. Are they do. They have a network of mentors and peers and teachers who can help them. Thank you know all those things matter hugely to how intelligently were able to think and those things are not in any way equitably distributed great point and they're also You know just that doesn't look like what an i q test all jelicic off right when you're supposed to sit there without moving in your in a strange place without any of your usual accused around and you're not allowed to talk to your neighbor who's taking the iq tests alongside you. I mean it's it's an incredibly brain bound. As andy clarke would say brain bound approach to intelligence and misses the to me the vast you know repository of human intelligence that we draw in all the time in ordinary real life situations. It seems like cove is relevant to this discussion as well because there must've been a implications of living during the pandemic for Our our brain bound way of thinking we realized just how extended the mind really is during this him. is that right. yeah l. I really think so. Yes i mean we. I think during the during the period when things are really shutdown. We were all kind of brains in front of screens for months at a time. You know and i think a couple of insights came out of that for me. Was that you know. If we're going to take seriously this model of of grit or the growth mindset wherein you know the idea is if you work your brain harder and harder if you give it more exercise the way you know you exercised muscle gets stronger a lot of working our brains a whole lot during the pandemic because we had no commute we had no chats with co workers. We were just you know working working working. And it's not as if we many did not feel that our brains were at their best or were at the in fine form because there were a lot of other things that we were now being deprived of that we were being cut off from because of the pandemic we may not have been moving as much a lot of us just sort of sat in front of our our computers. Day after day we weren't visiting new and stimulating places. We weren't interacting with people in person sat one professor said to me that he felt cut off from his extended mind because he wasn't allowed to go into his university office and the way his books were arranged in in the shelves around him formed kind of external memory and an external body of knowledge that he was cut off from because he couldn't be in office. I think the fact that our minds are extended became much more apparent to too many of us during the pandemic. the implications for children is striking in fact anti duckworth who You know you're talking about grit of you go. I'm she co authored. A big study on some implications of Children not being able to go to school and being and And you know she found. There's huge implications Very very high levels of anxiety and And goes to goes to show the extent to which just learning a contextual really not all that matters for sculpture now belonging needs met. Have they're having their other. Basic needs and growth needs in that raid. Yeah the idea that all that matters is the transfer of information from one brain to another her is such a limited and constrained idea of what learning is and how it happens and it's it's not an accurate view at all of how that happens for kids or for adults for that matter.

mitt fox andy clarke duckworth
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

05:57 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"When I'm fantastic about things, I don't want that out of my head. Now, you know what I'm saying? So there's certainly our moments when we're thinking and it is just contained to our body, isn't that right? Or no, never? Is the does the mind ever stop at the skull? Is that the question? Or does it always extend? Is there always? Yeah. I think I would say there are always as an extended mind. I've never been asked that question, so I'm really thinking about it. But for one thing, the fact that we have language, the fact that we have structures of thought and conventions of thought, those are all relics or artifacts of our interactions with other people, right? So in a sense, we have no thoughts without other people without our social experience of a lifetime. So I think from the very beginning, our minds are extended. I don't know that there's any way around that. Because of their influence, like the influence of the environment on the thoughts we're thinking. Yeah. And we're always doing our thinking in a particular body. We're always doing our thinking in a particular place, we're always doing it in some kind of social context, even when we're alone. So yeah, I don't think I don't think that is ever not extended. You know, as you know, I'm very interested in genius and giftedness, giftedness and kids that can do amazing calculations in their head and are capable of learning far beyond their years. There's a certain part where they can clean the credit for their brain that their unique brain they have, and then there's another hand of a lot of the rich resources, a lot of them may have had and aspects that you. So it seems like there's a mix. I don't think you want to you're going in so far as to suggest that there's no brain processes that are, you know, I don't get that from you. Yeah, no, no, I would never want to say that the brain is not central to thinking. I like to think of it in terms of redefining the brain's role, not as the place where it all happens, but rather a more dynamic kind of role of I like to compare it to an orchestra conductor. I like to the entity that's coordinating all these resources and bringing them all together. And when we think about thinking in that way, to me, it opens up all these options because now it's not a matter of just sitting there working your brain until the task is done. You have all these other resources to draw on, you know, maybe you need to go for a walk or maybe you need to have a conversation with a friend or maybe you need to act out what you're the problem you're trying to solve with your body and with your gestures. So to me, it's a very optimistic vision of our potential and how we can expand our potential. Definitely optimistic, definitely. And optimistic and also as you point out, it can give us compassion for people and suboptimal conditions. So it's not always optimistic in the sense, you know, some people are certain environments where they're extended mind is dreck as my father would say. Well, yeah, I mean. And that's why I think there's another blind spot here when we're talking about judging people on what presumably or ostensibly their brains are able to produce. And judging their outcomes as if their brains are the end of the story. But because the raw materials that we have to think with are such.

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

05:56 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"Yeah. Interesting, interesting. So stay tuned for more on that research on that. It's a very emerging science. You know, we should talk about intelligence for a second. How do you define intelligence? Because you use that word in your book and you talk about smarts, you could see how an intelligence researcher in the field of psychology might beg to differ that some of the things you're describing is intelligence is intelligence. But no one, as we both know, and agree, no one has the stake on what that word means and what counts. No research or owns the definition of it. So I'd love to ask Andy Murphy Paul's definition. I probably have a pretty broad definition all things considered. I would say intelligence is the ability to think effectively in the world to a learn and remember to solve problems and to come up with new ideas. You know, so for me, it's really rooted and grounded and how effectively you can act in the world. It's less of a brain in a jar kind of what's your IQ and more like what can you do with that intelligence do you have in terms of advancing your own goals? And that's the cornerstone of my mentor and grad school Robert sternberg's new book. Which I think you wrote about in Washington Post and Wall Street Journal, one of the best single of all. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah, bossy wrote about that in Boston called about adaptive Intel. So if you think about it going to adapt, we can certainly bring in lots of the things we're talking about. Could you make the point that the spaces around us expand our minds and can increase our expertise and knowledge and intelligence versus what are some of the environmental conditions that you've identified? Yeah, well, one of them is spending time outdoors, which was a really interesting strand of research that at first I was a little skeptical about to be honest because the idea that going outside makes you feel good or makes you think better seemed like tree hugging nature loving nonsense, but the more I am dug into that research, the more I appreciated the mechanism by which psychologists think that those effects occur, which is, you know, that we evolved to process the kind of information that is present in natural settings. And we process that information that stimuli in a really effortless way in a way that we find very pleasant that we find very restorative in the sense that it doesn't demand. Does it make the demands on our cognition it doesn't draw down our mental resources the way a highly stressful urban setting or even focusing very intently on symbols and concepts as we do in our work and our learning, those things are really demanding of the brain, but being out in nature as many of us know from personal experience, you know, it's restorative, it's relaxing, it engages our attention in a way that is pleasant and diverting, but it's sort of diffused. It's not like we have to focus really intently on anything. And so after we spent some time in nature, it's like refilling the tank, you know, of our of our attentional resources. And then we can go back to return to our work our learning sort of refreshed and better able to focus. Yeah, yeah. This intense living in a big city..

Andy Murphy Paul Robert sternberg bossy Washington Post Wall Street Journal Intel Boston
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

04:13 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"And what's interesting is that some people immediately take to this task and say, oh yeah, I know when my heart is beating and other people are like, what are you talking about? I have no idea what my heart is beating. And it's the same, you know, the heartbeat detection test, the heartbeat is a kind of proxy or stand in for the whole range of intracellular sensations that we feel and across all those many interoceptive sensations people are different in terms of how sensitive they are to those sensations. And it's not entirely clear why those individual differences exist. It may be partly genetic and maybe partly the kinds of messages that people got growing up from their caregivers about how legitimate it was to pay attention to those internal signals and take them seriously. You know, some people were told, you know, you're not hungry, it's not dinnertime yet, or, you know, or we're kind of encouraged to put those internal signals aside. And I think more generally in our society, we don't have a lot of patience for affinity for those internal signals and really taking them seriously. So I think all of us no matter where we stand on that spectrum of introspective attunement can probably benefit from becoming more sensitive to those internal signals and cues. Yeah, is mindful meditation, does that alter interceptive abilities? It seems to it seems to have that effect in particular the activity that is often a part of mindfulness meditation known as the body scan, where you pay objective nonjudgmental accepting, open minded attention to whatever sensations rise up from your body and you might even go part by part like first feeling what's there to be felt in your feet and in your legs and in your hips and in your stomach and then all the way up through the body and.

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

The Psychology Podcast

07:11 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast

"To the new york times magazine the new york times book review sleet and the oprah magazine among many other publications. She's also the author of a number of books including the cold personality origins and most recently the extended mind the power of thinking outside the brain and he thanks for coming on the psychology podcast again after being our very first guest ever thank you so much scott. I'm so happy to be back. You know seven years later seven years. Wow and look at all the people you've talked to in the seven years. It's amazing i was gonna say look books you've done since then. I have not been as prolific as you that that is for sure. Come on now. I love your work as you know. I'm a big fan This latest book is no exception in this new book. You invite the reader to quote. Think outside the brain can you. Can you tell our listeners. A little bit. What that what that means to you to think outside the brain. Sure yes Well i borrowed the idea of the extended mind from two philosophers andy clark and david chalmers and their idea which i think i hopefully expanded upon and elaborated on is that we don't just think with our brains. We think with the world around us and in my book. I explore in the insertive. More minute detail what that means we think with our bodies our bodies below the next because of course the brain is part of the body but we think with the rest of our bodies we think with the spaces in which we learn in work and we think with the minds of other people and to conceive of thinking in this way is is It's a departure from how we're used to thinking about thinking which is you know. Everything goes on inside the head. And all of our efforts that cultivating intelligence and effective thinking seemed to be directed at improving. How the brain functions and. I wanted to nudge people to think about. What are those other resources that we pull into our thinking processes in. how can we do that more skillfully. Yeah you make the case that we pay too little attention to the body in discussions about intelligence. I mean just the whole language of the that person's rainy says that person smart arm. But why is that. Misguided tell us why misguided about you know how it's not just the brain and may well that idea that the body has nothing to contribute to intelligence in a metaphor. that really animates much are thinking about thinking. and that is the computer Sorry the brain as computer metaphor. We think of the brain as being like a computer like a processor of information. And that's actually not. How human works you know we we evolved. We evolved in a setting that made use of our entire body all the time our movements are gestures the internal signals that rise up from within our body all of these contribute to our thinking all the time but again we're used to thinking of thinking as happening only in the brain and so we have a blind spot in a sense for all the ways that the body and its capabilities contribute to intelligent that you talk a little lot lot in your book about interception very exciting field. It's tied up with this. Emerging research on embodied cognition free book for sure Can you tell us a little about what interception is and maybe even individual differences in that. Because i am very interested individual differences aspect. Yes yes so. Interception is a kind of fancy technical word for gut feelings. You know those feelings that arise within your body that gives you a sense of of something of knowing something but the the notion doesn't seem to come from your brain actually feels like it's coming from within your body and in fact just like we have all these sensors that take information from the world outside. We have sensors located all throughout the inside of our body that center the brain this continuous flow of information about how the body is doing weather balance of state of balance being maintained. What actions need to be taken to maintain a state of balance and in terms of individual differences. It does seem to be the case that people are really widely distributed across the spectrum in terms of how sensitive they are to their internal signals. How attuned they are to those signals. The sort of standard test of interest up sensitivity is is the heartbeat detection tests. So it's like the the how that works is that people are asked to name the moment when their heart is beating. And what's interesting. Is that some people immediately. Take to the task and say oh. Yeah i i know when my heart is beating and other people are like what are you talking about like. I have no idea what my heart is beating and it's the same the heartbeat detection test. The heartbeat is a kind of proxy or stand in for the whole range of interests up. Sensations that we feel and and across all those many intercept of sensations people are different in terms of how sensitive they are to those sensations. And it's not entirely clear. Why does individual differences exist. It may be Partly genetic maybe partly the kinds of messages that people got growing up from their caregivers about how legitimate it was to pay attention to those internal signals and take them seriously. You know some people were told you know you're not hungry. It's not dinnertime yet. Or you know. Or we're kind of encouraged put those internal signals aside. And i think more generally in our society. There's not we don't have a lot of patience for or or affinity for those internal signals and really taking them seriously. So i think all of us no matter where we stand on. That spectrum of of introspective atonement could probably benefit from from becoming more sensitive to those internal signals. And cues does is mindful. Meditation does that alter intercept of abilities. It seems to it seems to have that effect in particular the activity. That is often part of mindfulness meditation. Known as the the body scan where you pay objective non-judgmental accepting open-minded attention to whatever sensations. Rise up from your body and you kind of go part by part you know like i feeling what's what's there to be felt in your feet and in your legs and in your hips and in your stomach and then all the way up through the body and just being very aware of what..

new york times magazine oprah magazine david chalmers andy clark the new york times scott
"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

05:14 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman

"Today it's great to have Annie Murphy Paul in the podcast, and he writes about how the findings of cognitive science and psychology can help us to think and act more intelligently. Any contribute to The New York Times Magazine, The New York Times book review, slate, and O The Oprah magazine, among many other publications. She's also the author of a number of books, including the cold of personality origins, and most recently the extended mind the power of thinking outside the brain. And he thanks for coming on the psychology podcast again after being our very first guest ever. Thank you so much, Scott. I'm so happy to be back. You know, 7 years later. 7 years. Wow. And look at all the people you've talked to in those 7 years. It's amazing. I was going to say look how many books you've done since then? I have not been as prolific as you, that is for sure. Oh, come on now. I love your work as you know. I'm a big fan. And this latest book is no exception. You know, in this new book, you invite the reader to quote, think outside the brain. Can you tell our listeners a little bit what that means to you to think outside the brain? Sure, yes. Well, I borrowed the idea of the extended mind from two philosophers Andy Clark and David Chalmers. And their idea, which I think I hopefully expanded upon and elaborated on is that we don't just think with our brains, we think with the world around us. And in my book, I explore in the sort of more minute detail what that means, we think with our bodies, you know, our bodies below the neck out because of course the brain is part of the body. But we think with the rest of our bodies, we think with the spaces in which we learn and work and we think with the minds of other people. And to conceive of thinking in this way, it's a departure from how we're used to thinking about thinking, which is, you know, everything goes on inside the head and all of our efforts that cultivating intelligence and effective thinking seem to be directed at improving how the brain functions. And I wanted to nudge people to think about, well, what are those other resources that we pull into our thinking processes and how can we do that more skillfully? Yeah, you make the case that we pay too little attention to the body and discussions about intelligence..

Annie Murphy Paul Oprah magazine The New York Times Magazine The New York Times Andy Clark David Chalmers Scott
"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

02:25 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

"Let's say the kids have forty five minute periods. Eight forty five minutes periods day. Whatever was that originally was like zoom is going to be forty five minutes long. Because it's like you just came into class and that it immediately became clear. I have a fifth grader. Like a fifth grader is not going to sit still for you. Forget that so much of that is coming in. Oh they're rough housing. Okay break them up. Now get them in their chairs. That really there's only like twenty or twenty-five of actual learning going on that right. And i thought it was a really interesting opportunity to kind of think about that a little bit in terms of like how much classroom time is actually learning time. And how much do they need this time to come in and kind of tussle around and see each other's faces and goof around or something falls and then everyone's laughing about that but that again. That's not time that our mind is wasting time. That our my needs to extent absolutely yes. That's really good. Twenty minutes max yet. You know another thing. I think some of us. I'd certainly did learn from the pandemic is how rate is feels to be outside. A lot of us had your freedom to be outside might hit. Schools held a lot of their classes outside when the weather is okay and you know that's something i really don't wanna live as we go back to quote unquote normal life. You know that being outside is really restored as in ways that you just can't get inside. I love that it's so my kids are in scouts. And there's an expression scouting is ninety percent outing. When i was leading a boy scout in they were like when in doubt be outside. I don't care if it's twelve degrees outside. When in doubt be outside outside is half the battle. And i think that's such a good takeaway from this book as well. We could talk about this book for four hours. Because there's so much interesting stuff in it. Please read the extended. Mind by anti murphy paul and tell us what else you're working on where we can find you where we can get the book. I'm sure it's wherever books are sold at this point. Tell us anyway. Yeah so. I spent an awful lot of time on twitter. My handle as any murphy. Paul and not people can always find you there website. Www dot com excellent and we will link to all of those things. My friend any murphy. Paul thank you so much for coming on. What fresh talking to me. This was so much. Thank you this was fun. Great to talk to you..

murphy paul murphy Paul twitter
"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

02:46 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

"Eddie murphy paul. Who is the author of the extended mind and we talked about this book in terms of what it can mean for our kids and now i wanna talk a little bit about ourselves as moms running kind of busy crazy households and one of the things that really struck me in this book. I have never heard the term interception before and tell us a little bit of that and how it plays in another thing. i'm obsessed with. It's instinct just listened to your guts. Mom and i'm like i don't think that's quite the right advice. Talk to us a bit about interception. Then we'll talk about whether or not mom should listen to their guts. Yeah so interception is a fancy scientific word that means the capacity sense your internal sensations so justice. We're taking in all this information from the outside world to our is in our ears than our noses to be also are receiving stream of information from inside our body and so you know gut feeling is a term that all of us have heard in that kind of captures what interests as what was interesting to me about the research is that i am kind of skeptical of like you know. Listen to your like. I tend to be actually a rather sort of yes cerebral person so but i was really interested by this research that suggests that as we're going to our daily lives were encountering so much information so many pattern so many regularities in our experience that we can't store those in our conscious minds. But we do store at non consciously and then the way we get access to that non conscious sort of treasure trove of experience. Our own experience is through these feelings. That is what is happening when you feel little twinjet nervousness or little surge of excitement your own store of experience telling you oh you counter situation like this four been here before. Yes and here's a guide to how to handle the situation and the more sensitive you are to those internal cues the better use. Usa can make them. I think my problem with the gut feeling is the other side of the equation that i tend to be extremely reactive to things and i found especially after having kids and i had some postpartum anxiety and other stuff going on around my gut. Instincts became so hyper sensitive. Was getting danger. Danger impending death messages all the time. And that i felt like people kind of being like go with your mom got. I was like okay. My mom tells me the world is ending all the time and earn horrible. Things are about to happen to my kids all the time and so. I was skeptical. When i started this section but really i love this idea. I talked to us about the interception journal..

Eddie murphy paul Usa
"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

05:47 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on What Fresh Hell: Laughing in the Face of Motherhood

"Okay we're back with anne murphy paul the author of the extended mind and one of the things that really struck me in the book. Is i have a child who has an iep and one thing that iep for people who don't know season special ed of some sort and get special supports at school and a lot of the concepts. In this book. I recognized from special ed supports and one of them is the role of the body in the mind. And this idea of fidgeting and kids you know when you go into a special. Ed classroom in school. Uc things like wobble seats. You see chew sticks kids who can chew on things while they learn. Some kids might be lying on the floor where they learnt walking around while they learn and again. I think our tendency is to look at it and say like oh these poor kids. They can't sit absolutely still and learn and use their brain muscle. Like it's supposed to be used and i was really struck in the book that this idea of like this is very fundamental to how the mind works motion and being inside your body while learning and taking in information and so. What's the connection there. yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up because it has often made that kids and people with learning differences are almost like the cutting edge of thinking outside the brain. I say that all the time. I'm like come..

anne murphy paul Ed classroom
"murphy paul" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

05:40 min | 1 year ago

"murphy paul" Discussed on Science Salon

"Right. We're rolling any murphy paul. Here's the new book. The extended mind the power of thinking outside the brain i will have already provided a detailed Bio for you but Let me just start by saying now. I understand after reading your book. Why i think why. I do. Better listening to audio books. Rather than reading books. I can read books. I've read it kazillion books. But for some reason i can retain content and details even quotes that pop into mind when a minute conversation That i get from the audio version as opposed to the written version. So let's just start there. Why is that Well i have a question for you. Michael which is when you think about those quotes from those books that you've listened to you. Remember where you were when you were listening. We are all. Yeah this this. The extended mind idea. I can even picture like. I'm usually doing this on a bike. Ride or hike with my dog. Usually long bike rides. I can remember like what canyon road. I was riding up when i heard this story about some story. You told your book yes. I can actually picture it physically where i was. Yeah yes there's a couple of things going on there one. Is that as you mentioned. You're moving when you're listening to these audiobooks. It sounds like you're taking a walk. You're.

murphy paul Michael
Police: 1 officer dies, 2nd wounded in Louisiana shooting

This Morning with Gordon Deal

00:25 sec | 2 years ago

Police: 1 officer dies, 2nd wounded in Louisiana shooting

"A shooting in Louisiana's capital city is left one police officer dead and his wounded colleague fighting for his life baton Rouge police chief Murphy Paul says the two officers were shot in a northern residential district this is the call that note chief wants to get no police officer wants to hear an officer down Paul said a thirty six year old suspect was detained after a four hour standoff in which he barricaded himself inside a

Louisiana Officer Murphy Paul Baton Rouge
Suspect arrested in civil rights activist Sadie Roberts-Joseph's death

America in the Morning

01:49 min | 3 years ago

Suspect arrested in civil rights activist Sadie Roberts-Joseph's death

"An arrest has been made in the murder of a well known Louisiana civil rights activists Sadie Roberts Joseph was found dead in the trunk of her car last week in baton Rouge correspondent Clayton Nevil is following the story the killing is not considered by police to have been a hate crime but runs remain bell is charged with first degree murder baton Rouge police chief Murphy Paul says his department is investigating a motive we believe based on our investigation at this time that Ron bail was attended in one of her rent houses we believe that he was behind several months on his right around twelve hundred dollars was old east baton Rouge sheriff's in control remembers Robert Joseph is a good friend and a leader hello hello miss say for years and Myron respect her dedication to education and our community Roberts Joseph founded what's now known as the baton Rouge African American museum she also bought to elevate Juneteenth to state and national holiday honoring the freeing of US slaves her daughter Angela Machen says she's still in shock but has a message for people across the country mourning her mother's death I am still numb I'm not angry I'm not for several days I wasn't anything I wasn't anything but now but for those who were and are angry live a better life give of yourself to your community to make the whole that are the baton Rouge parish coroner's office determined the preliminary cause of death was dramatic asphyxia including suffocation but officials say the seventy five year old didn't die by strangulation instead her nose and mouth were blocked a community in disbelief what now reflecting on the life and accomplishments of one of the areas most well known civil rights leaders I'm

Angela Machen Baton Rouge Myron RON First Degree Murder Louisiana Murder United States Baton Rouge African American M Roberts Joseph Robert Joseph Murphy Paul Bell Clayton Nevil Sadie Roberts Joseph Twelve Hundred Dollars Seventy Five Year