20 Episode results for "Muhammad Bin Salman"

Enough of this Ruckus

The World at Large

28:56 min | 4 months ago

Enough of this Ruckus

"Saudi arabia announces new. Modernisation laws in australia reporter is arrested in beijing for espionage. Denmark announces a large construction project. And the skinniest house in london is put up for sale. This is the world at large. We are politics one thousand and one. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the world at large. This show is free for everyone and to keep it that way. Consider supporting us through the link. Our description you can support us by leaving a review subscribing and sharing with a friend as well now without further ado please enjoy this episode of our podcast. Hello everybody welcome to another episode of the world at large now before a hand the reins over to our residents international news experts. Josh over here. I would just like to say that what we do. It's is quite a bit of work between the instagram account in the podcast and all the research and brainstorming things to make for you and we really want to build a strong community So one way one thing we're got launched and we hope that you guys will be there to join us is a discord. Were we communicate with you. Guys have debate. Ask questions and you don't get all warm and fuzzy together you know talk to each other is really site. You guys think about joy and we'll put a link in the description and along with her discord. we are also making a patriot. That's right were we will be making extra content like calling in to chat with us yours. Truly you could chat with fultz live by Donate to patriot. Which is pretty awesome and that way you will be supporting the work that we do which we totally do in our free time as i said earlier and it will just make motivated now. That's enough of that kind of that. Ruckus sorry soap josh taken away with saudi arabia. Yeah yeah. I expect the patriots guys all right saudi arabia who we got a lot of stuff going on there because hamas sought ma the crown prince of saudi arabia is decided to go through a modernisation face. The he has for a while. But saying i am going to modernize the kingdom. I'm going to be the prince. That never was the knight in shining armor to the damsel in distress. That is of course the saudi kingdom. I thought your say me. And ian ian is the damsel. He's not a very good damsel all without self. Say that much but he cuts eddie of. Let down your hair okay. Nice so have all these judicial reforms for the kingdom because there's this thing in saudi arabia where the judges they kind of make their own decisions like tiny little tiny little laws but for the most part they kind of just like they go off the gulf though win. Because there's no actual formal salt lake. National legalized code of law in saudi arabia. So that and i'm going to get into that but this is why there is a lot of human rights issues in the country regarding gender equality because there's no formal law saying that. You can't do that. Can't you can't discriminate based on gender. So then stuff like this happens so muhammad bin salman is saying you know what enough enough. It's time for us to stop getting condemned by the international organizations. Now i love it. I love being condemned by the international organizations. In fact it makes me smile. But but i i just don't have time for anymore i. It's not something i want to deal with. I think it might be good to just move on a life so according to saudi state media There will be four new laws. That are soon to be finalized. These laws are very interesting And they are false. They are the personal status law the civil transaction the penal code of discretionary sanctions and the law of evidence. You might be wondering what does that mean. What are these laws. And look i love to. I mean i would love to do it so much. I mean it may be so happy to tell you. However i can't because muhammad bin salman has not actually disclosed what these laws are going to be He said oh. We're going to release them or they're going to trickle out over time. You know we can't do it all it wa- sent email. He'll talk to me. I mean we requested for comment but they don't usually get the probably going in their spam folder. Just like the queen's these national governments never get back to us. i couldn't imagine lie. I'm however let's see what prince months he said quote. The new laws represent a new wave of reforms that will increase the reliability of procedures and oversight mechanisms as cornerstones in cheating the principles of justice. Clarifying lines of accountability So yeah that's what they're supposed to do. It's it's trying to make more organi state. One of the twenty first century everyone. Everyone has laws nowadays. Why not saudi arabia. Everyone stealing it. Yes it's like a comedy but you know if they do they know they do they do it to. Yeah if they do it too late then you know everyone by that point. No one's gonna have laws anymore so you got keep up with the system. It's a fad right. Y- you can't can't do it last second does it matter anymore so anyways while the specifics of these laws are not yet known. Saudi media has said that they will be announced as i said that be released slowly throughout twenty twenty one a hover as i said. Saudi arabia does not have a Confined legal system. And as i'm bin salman set himself and as i mentioned earlier this is harmed will the most of it's difficult for them to do a lot of things when they don't have the right to In accordance to the law slave nothing to back them up if they do something that may be seen as culturally inappropriate on the point. These laws even if it is culturally inappropriate. It is still possible for them to do this stuff because well it's law fell. It doesn't matter if you don't like it. Yes delgada follow the law on it. So this bin salman talking dot me and he said this and quote in regards to the discrepancies in the court so we sat Discrepancies in court. Rulings have led to a lack of clarity in the rules governing the incidents and practices and has hurt many mostly woman. This will not be. This will not take place again once. These laws are promulgated pursuant to legislative laws and procedures. So there you go. We have these. We have this stable legal system. This is not going to happen as much and still a habit. It's not going to happen as much because you know there's people. These people have an ability to defend themselves now and so. Saudi government has emphasized that these reforms are catch up with the international standards of the twenty first century or no all medieval twelfth century kingdom anymore known in where not england with full century nana where saudi arabia where the updated pristine world country. The future we have the line city coming. If you guys remember that post the line a hundred mile long city in which in which a million people be able to live in everything they need will be within walking distance. I'd be a straight line. We have that we have diverse. We have to have tourism opening up. you know longer have to cover up. If your foreigner you could come to the country. I mean you still kinda do but a little bit less lied about that you don't have to. You don't have to worry about being imprisoned as much if you if you speak out against country and your foreigner because all these things all these laws are coming in encouraging tourism were have all these new infrastructure projects we are becoming a modern symbol of beauty. We are saudi arabia. And you know Laws regarding women to its side effect. Right yeah i yeah we have that stuff but look at the live. Look at the cities. We're building do you got tiktok. Give tiktok The saudi arabia. Not you personally. I do actually have to. Oh i don't just shows you were living under a rock that will i'm robin pit soman yet. I'm england over here. Still in the twelfth century he said. Yeah yeah exactly. It's and so what i'm trying to say is his modernist. These are modernization efforts to encourage people to come to the kingdom because saudi arabia isn't going to get him to does not have the most diverse of economies. So this likely likely as i said also has to do with diversify but as i said earlier. The country must relies on oil mostly oil. I don't think this is a surprise to anyone saudi arabia. It's in the middle east. It competes with iran all the time for these juicy oil experts at. We all know the three rules of geopolitics including power money. That third one. It's always oil. it's always oil. His oil is how the world economy runs and saudi arabia has a lot of in fact. Ninety percent of their export earnings are in the form of oil at eighty percent. Eighty seven percent of government. Government revenue is in oil sif mohammed. Bin salman is like well. Here's the i if we ever happened to run out of oil at is probably not great because you know we. We need to do something about that. So tourism is what he's going for mainly here So that is the whole point of this. He say by twenty thirty we will be the most beautiful progressive amazing country. the entire world will be caught up. Twenty-first-century standards how could we go wrong. Saudi arabia is going to be the most beautiful country. So that is why you guys should love us. In fact the spanish foreign ministry for example is quite happy. They praised the saudi government. Saying all these are the best reforms. I love you. You're amazing keep it up. Saudi akiyama bin salman and. I'm assuming that alone was enough to make to make some untangle in think oh that he tingled all over and now that the spanish foreign ministry is crazy. Me board could have asked for my life. Twenty thirty just looks closer and closer. Yeah of so there you go. I'm very interesting. We'll see if the reforms actually actually blossom into something real however in the meantime. Let's talk about detaining foreign spies because because this is very common spies are in every single country in the world every single country. You is it you know guys everywhere guys. They're everywhere from from the mountains of tabuchi to the to the force of papua new guinea. I'm sure there's many in the boundaries of djiboutian. Don't get me started. About the force of papua new guinea. Spies down there jason bourne at james bond. Just having invention back there. Yeah it's everywhere. The spies everywhere So we got new guinea new guinea djibouti and beijing. All equally likely places where they're cooking spies however sadly the for only the ladder is going to be mentioned in our in our story. Sorry for all archer beauty fans. I'll ever is happy. Beijing and i chinese australian reporter who's working. China has been formally arrested so this journalist she is has lovely name or image chang-lee chain lie lay and was detained. Six months ago by the chinese authorities wait. So if you're six months ago why are you talking about ching chang late now well as a good question because detainment is very distant from actually being arrested. Containment is up year. little bits. Your little bit suss okay. You're a little bit suspicious. But i can't just arrest you. I mean i don't want to. I don't want to ruin ties with australia. Spoke to tame it seems appropriate and so they detained her and then now on monday. They actually arrested her which is when officially she loses a lot. More rights than issue was detained. However the chinese government denies that So she was detained as she was arrested. That's actual stories that it became official today that she was arrested. And so how do they know that she was detained. Six months ago Well she worked for cgt. At which is the english state broadcaster in china It's like state media but morenz english instead of at the many chinese dialects. That's nice them. As fiber traveled to china. I'll have english speaking media exactly an she was contributing to that so beijing arrested her accusing her of supplying state secrets. The australian government whose embassy she would often visit at there's photos of her at all the parties at the australian embassy. I mean it was a real to go there. She wrote on the party. However this is very very bad she. She's clearly a trillion spy working for the state media in china until the chinese government said. I agree in rested her and well. Yeah that very sad in so. The australian government said that it had quote serious concerns about ching's detention regularly at senior levels including about her welfare and contentious detention ak. They're saying Is she okay. Are they hurting. Her are they. Feeding her Kitschy still come to the embassy for slam hardees. All these questions are raging through our head at the this is this is what's happening. All these equal equally equal inquiries here and so in response to chinese foreign minister wang wenbin said that the rights of ching lay were were being fully guaranteed. They're fine she's fine. She's being fed. She might she might not be illegal. The embassy alright we lower taxes. Battaglia don't have sovereignty over the embassy but like she had look at it if she's not throwing any bangers right now let's just say yeah but but she's fine i mean we're we're feeding her feeding her so she's fine and the reason this was a bigger deal as opposed to the reason that they actually knew that she was gone. Originally in detained is because she was on state media right on this channel on. Cgt an and all the sudden. She's the next day she has got she wasn't on. Tv sheet. no-one she her family called her. No one answered the phone and you actually went on the website. Cdt annan's her profile was gone So she just disappeared. And that's where all the special came up like. Wait a second. That's weird yes. She was detained and now they're saying well look she's fine right and she actually had two kids. They and she was detained when her kids were travelling to australia. At the start of at it was an august. So the lockdown was relatively. It was relatively in progress. Right code was a few months and at that point but her kids were in australia because school was cancelled in china. So they were there. And that's when that's when chinese struck and they took her because she knew she didn't have any family didn't have to watch the kids and they took her in. They detained her while the kids were overseas and sneaky sneaky and so These two journalists were working in beijing. there so there are actually two other journalists interesting that we're also working in beijing. They evacuated by the australian government So the so what happened. Is the chinese. Authorities came up to them and they said and they question them over security concerns it said. Are you a chinese spy. You're you're not. You're not happen to be supplying us state secrets to the australian government right right. You're not doing that. See you gone to the embassy and through stuff good. Shrimp cocktails lake view nam. Yeah exactly and and it happens. Chang got arrested and detained and these journalists went. Oh god we should probably get out of here and so they immediately ran to. The embassy had one last party and they aborted a beautiful plan and they went back to australia. Left after what had lay. Because you know when you're questioned by the chinese authorities and they actually arrest someone for doing that. You don't want to be next because you know more parties and so they they're gone and that was that so she's currently still being held in jail cell. There's a lot of disputes. There's obviously china in australia. Did not get along. A lot of people are saying that china is actually formally arrested her because Souring ties between the chinese and australian governments on their an all time low. There's a lot of naval naval and not not physical but a lot of naval projection of power power projection in the ocean. Just two guys standing on the bow. Their ship yelling at each other. Yeah puffing their chests Yet really trying to act tough. Yeah and that. That's kind of happy. China doesn't like that. Australia doesn't like that. Neither of them particularly like when each other are mead contradicting power and especially because australia has been teaming up with the philippine civic teaming up with taiwan teaming up a career david teaming up with japan to counter the expansion of the chinese influence wad and china. Day like i do not like that very much i. I don't understand why i don't do anything wrong. I am perfect. You should not be doing that. So come on. Come on this is aggressive. You don't need to make all these alliances but but but if you did let him have changed journalist so yeah you take that so very go while. She's playing state secrets to the australian government. I don't know there's proof because china's not really presented any evidence as to such kind of just detain her now arrested her and we'll see where that actually ends up leading all right but before we get started. Let me tell you about a free platform called anchor. So what is anchor will. as. I said it's free. And what can you do with this re platform. Will you can upload and edit your podcast from your computer or your phone and it will distribute it for you this entire app. So if you're not an expert in anchor or you don't know anything about podcasts. Then it's all fine because inker will do all of it for you anchor. We'll send it to the most famous places for podcasts. Such as spotify apple in many many more. And what's the best part. Well you can make money from your podcast. That's right money. You can have four listeners. Make millions of dollars. Inkers there for you. Anchor is the way of the future so if you are interested in using anchor and you are interested in using this platform as we are then please go to anchor. Fm to get started. Anchor dot fm. To get started thing. You need to make a podcast in one place. I recommend in sodas ian so anyways Interesting story however we got some more stories and that includes the parliament in ghana. Has this guy's see very poor story. The clips because parliament ghana has been dissolved. Due to covid. That's right a very very big deal right to solving. Parliaments is pretty crazy because ghana just held elections was if flooded dissolved in the flood water by the covert flood. Oh okay is this all. Find a code okay. A no comment It's the parliament was dissolved. And this again was not very good because they held elections and the problem was when you just hold elections. You've got to appoint ministers your minister of transportation minister of defense minister of foreign affairs. Kyle like All all we talk about four ministries all the time. If they don't have a foreign ministry who is supposed to whom is supposed to quote. Who am i supposed to say and quote and put a colon next two and then read the quote. I mean i. I can't do that have gone. It doesn't have a foreign minister. Podcast is would only be doomed. God i need four ministries mosit- germany guys know and love. Heiko maas okay. Yeah no comment. Shut up you said at the floods. There's a joke. It was a bit parliament. I don't get the joke. I'll explain it to you later. I'm kit and so. The parliament was dissolved and albeit bachmann. Who's the speaker of the parliament. He released a statement in which disclosed at six percent of the legislators seventeen out of two hundred seventy five people have been affected with cova. Furthermore over thirty percent of the staff in the parliament have been affected as well so a lot of people. I mean imagine that thirty percent of your of your government is infected with cova. That's not good. You don't want that it's actually. It's well so they will segawa said well this is just the caption for shutting down government of and there's been a lot of criticism for this but at the same time there's been a lot of agreement we don't want to continue to spread And so again. This is inconvenient for ghana because they're trying to appoint ministers in this very difficult now However ghana is up to seventy two thousand. Three hundred cases of the coronavirus. Oh they are just having fun out there. Yes rates lots of fun. Yeah i hope they keep it up all right so anyways keep it down why they want the case but down covert seriously. Okay that is. That's good save right all right so anyways we'll move on out that is to the danish government because the danish government has announced its intentions to build a thirty four billion dollar energy island and what is thirty. Four billion dollar energy island. What does that mean. What is that. Because that's not just like a an island of our energy drinks nothing now. Yeah that's what it is real. It was like book ticket. He was gonna jump in and just opened his mouth but no heart attack. It's not that guy so stop. Speaking of this island will be located eighty kilometers or fifty miles off the coast north lorcy and what are supposed to do is be a massive source of green energy. Yes green energy you. It will be surrounded by hundreds of wind turbines. All these turbines will hook up to this island and they'll funnel in and they're gonna keep spinning and spinning and just provide this energy islands with all the must've amazing power source in the world at. It's going to supply. Dad margaret's gonna supply norway and sweden and finland in the united states and russia in india. Everyone in the world will be supplied went. No but you guys. It's a pretty big project and it's thirty four billion dollars. It's actually the largest fun fact largest construction project in the history of denmark And it will actually be starting in twenty twenty six. So if you're hyped about it you're going to have to wait a little bit because it's not close to twenty six. Why they announced it now. I don't really know but Yeah and want built the hype. It's like a releasing a trailer for movie fires in high ends five-year hype and support. It is supposed to be a massive source of green energy But we'll see if that actually works. The danish government though is is not. They're taking a pretty large stake in the island because the government spoke That's what's expected right. They're taking a fifty one percent stake in it so just enough that they have more leverage over everyone else in the are going to give the other forty nine percent to the private sector so anyone who wants to invest if you wanna if you want game stop the The energy islands and let you go for it. But it's not for energy drinks as i've been told it's not for energy shrinks. Few guys learned anything from that segment. A however speaking of energy i'm south korea's also announcing a large project that will be finished by twenty thirty so Looks like we got a little bit more of a cure finish date not a start date and they announced this large project also saying that they will build the world's largest wind farm where forty three billion dollars so they're beating the danes by fair chunk of money few billion and it'll be done by twenty thirty and it will have the ability to store maximum of eight point. Two gigawatts in that guys is a lot. A lot of gigawatts might contain my energy. You can't you might be wondering well. Only aac gigawatts Please not that many. However if you're not familiar with what a gigawatt is it's a. It's it's a lot. in fact. In comparison the largest gigawatt farm right now is in the united kingdom and that farm can only hold one point one gigawatts which would make this approximately according to my calculations adding smacking. My keyboard thinks it sounds bet- cool sounds to keyboard but approximately it is seven point four five so i'm going to stop here. It's it's about seven times the size of the uk the uk power. Plant a. so you can. You can see how big that is. The largest thing in the world is only one point one and all of a sudden you have something that seven times the size. You could see how it's really begging. It's supposed to provide thousands of jobs and it's gonna supposedly going to be really good for which is a pretty big country population wise so we'll see how that goes to create good luck denmark. Help you guys enjoy your construction projects anyways. we're gonna move on now to the best story of all the stories besides a return library book. This is the best story in the entire world. And that is that the skinniest house. The students house and all of london is up for sale. And i did attach them pictures for ian to look at. Oh wow he did. It's the blue house in the middle and it's being it's being sold for one point. Three million the honest look through these pictures. I don't think i'll fill up the stairwell. It's pretty small med for us. Big boned people. Uh spigham people. I hit me up muscle. Sorry i'm like you you you slav. I just eat all drink. All the energy drinks in the world apparently. Yeah so it's being sold for one point three million dollars and guys looking at the size of this house that is a lotta money but is also like london. So it's kind of expected right. I'm looking at the pictures. Now would look this up house in london being sold for one point. Three million dollars skinniest house in london. Just look that up on google. You can see the pictures and what you'll see is that it's really skinny and it looks like it's really old and down. It's gross grossman. Actually it's been renovated. It looks really nice on the inside. It looks amazing. On the inside The person selling the house described it as quote small yacht or luxury yacht rather saying that. That's kind of what it feels like. It's you're like in a little cabin And little cabin in the middle of the city between two businesses. Yeah well this actually was. This was originally a business But it is. It looks pretty nice. I mean it's well furbish. It's only six feet wide In that in that is from like one side to the other side. So you're next to a walk in clinic so you get crushed. You can head over there. yeah i. I'm reading it now in a burger place saturday burger. So you're next burger place. It's really convenient so convenient spot to live and this is like the apparently this is the new thing Not not skinny little houses. But apparently there's a lot of concern about overcrowding overpopulation. Wants to live in the city centre and so houses like this hour desirable for some reason So i mean if you're interested i guess it has everything needed And it's actually five stories. There's a basement. It looks like there's only three but there's two stories under their basement so as pretty cool and it was originally a hat shops so yeah According to the realtor and i'll just quote them he said quote. It's quirky in. Charming and great for entertaining will appeal. The someone who feels there's more to life than two up two down. It started life as a hat shop was converted by fashion photographer. The ultimate designer house so guys as see this is just the top notch top model. London house figures are interested in moving to united kate. Debit have one point three million dollars on hand guys. This house right here seems pretty cool and you could say. I the skinniest house in london. Good for you good for you and yeah but if you're interested by the way A did fact return his library book. That was seventy two years over So just remember that too. If you're looking for a great story that was to podcasts or three count out. But i'm saying that's pretty cool shows how memorable your stories are pretty memorable and well anyways By the skinniest house at enjoy the rest of the stories. But i hope you also enjoyed the podcast because those are all the stories i have you today. I'll know if if if you didn't fact joy it make sure to subscribe and share it. The friend and it is there anything else they should plan on doing. The should leave a review. Oh yes lever view a big fat review talk about ian beautiful beautiful cavs and if you talk about that in the in the review section then. You're amazing. I'm however however as we said at the start we do have a patriot and we do have a discord. You check that out because if you subscribe on the patriot you'll be able to call into the show and that's awesome because like us talking right you'll be will call. It will be able to hear you. You'll be on the show. Your voice will be on the show and we'll answer your questions live so in order to do that. You have to subscribe to the patriotic link will be in the scripture of this podcast. If you're interested you can also. Dms on politics thousand one. We can help you get set up very secure site so if you're worried about online payment being insecure i. It isn't and it's really easy. To unsubscribe if you don't wanna do anymore so don't worry about any of that. It's really simple straightforward process. Everyone knows patriots. It's awesome so with that guys. I hope you subscribe to that or at least join us on dischord if not But the meantime a hope you guys have a great rest of your day. You are listening to the world at large we are politics. One thousand one. Good bye bye.

muhammad bin salman bin salman Saudi government spanish foreign ministry china australia australian government beijing new guinea chinese government Saudi arabia fultz saudi kingdom ian ian danish government Saudi media ghana robin pit soman
Peace out: from bad to worse in Yemen

The Economist: The Intelligence

25:16 min | 2 weeks ago

Peace out: from bad to worse in Yemen

"The gop digital supply chain transformation. Gp is the industry's digital transformation. Powerhouse helping enterprises achieve impressive new levels of guility resilience performance and profitability with strategy managed services and ai powered supply chain and procurement software. Hundreds of fortune five hundred global two thousand companies count on gp to achieve amazing results g. Ep helping the world's best companies do better visit. Gp dot com. Hello and welcome to the intelligence on economist. Radio on your host jason bomber. Every weekday we provide fresh perspective on the events shaping. Your world scandal has again rocked. The world of horse racing with the winner of this year's kentucky derby at risk of disqualification and unable to run in this weekend's belmont stakes we look at an industry that suffering for its drug problem and during the spanish civil war in the nineteen thirties. The fight was joined by. The international brigades foreign fighters against franco's fascist are obituaries editor. Looks back on the life of the last surviving member. I though seven years into the war in yemen the situation is as bleak fighting continues between the who these a group of shia rebels and forces loyal to the government backed by saudi arabia. Government forces have been pushed back to merab the last big city in the north still under their control only airstrikes. Saudi arabia are slowing the who these advance an advance. that's only worsening of grinding humanitarian crisis. The united nations said that millions are set to go hungry this year. Humanitarian situation in yemen is fully off a cliff with more than twenty million yemenis needing humanitarian assistance. And on monday there. Special envoy called for an urgent ceasefire. The continuation of military activities in several parts of the country including river is undermining in my view. The prospect of peace in your it puts lives of millions of risks and this needs to end but is unlikely. The fight for marriage is just the latest front in a long and bruising war with peace nowhere in sight the hutu rebels who already control already of much of northern yemen have got within about four kilometers of the last stronghold of the yemeni government. Which is mario northeast. Nicholas pelham is our middle east correspondent. They suffered a few losses. They've been pushed back by science strikes. But they're still determined to press on and the killing is extensive observers. Say it's a bit like trench warfare. The loss of life is some of the highest has been in the war and this is part of the country. which would be one of the safest mary. But was a place of refuge for many who had been displaced by fighting elsewhere. The size of made it a base for their operations. And we're at a point where saudi arabia and the government would really except to ceasefire and the huskies knowing that calls because they're the ones that are winning and they want the city and as the who these are advancing. What's life like for the people under their control over. Two thirds of the thirty million people live under the rule. The population concentrated in the areas that they control in the northwest and they've really turned that parts of yemen into something of repressive theocracy. Much like the one in iran political opponents and journalists locked up sometimes they've been executed cafes where men and women once mixed of being closed and some of yemen's last remaining jews have been expelled pretty much bringing an end to a three thousand year history of jewish presence in the highlands so people in the of describing it as something akin to a counterrevolution poor peasants come back from battlefields hardened believers there even reeducation camps for adults and what about the humanitarian situation. That we've talked about in yemen so many times before. Saudi arabia has maintained a blockade on the porch. That the who's these control ever since they intervened in the fighting in two thousand fifteen and that's crippled the economy in the north but at the same time the who've he's a compounding the suffering the diverting aid and selling it for profit and the humanitarian situation is really desperate covert is rife the who have ended the rollout of covid nineteen vaccines because they want to control delivery and there's report from february four agencies said that up to four hundred thousand children die of starvation unless there was urgent intervention. But if the who these have been cut off so much how did they find the resources to to wage. This kind of war. It's often the case. When you're under blockade sanctions the winners of the war. Profiteers and the of turn into war profiteers park salons they're not paying salaries accepted themselves and their fighters the smugglers taking fuel from ports and the staff there were checkpoints these customers posts which raise more revenue and iran is modeling significant volumes of weapons and components to the who these and is providing supply parts for their drones missiles. And that's according to a un panel of experts some incredibly amid the starvation. There's a real estate boom their new glamorous malls and this just a massive disparity of wealth and poverty and now you say meredith is is a focus of the conflict if it were taken by the who house significant military game with that beat easing control of marriage would give the who these control of the north sunni oil refinery. It would be the gateway to the oilfields in the eastern south. There are some that argue that once. The who have myra they'd stop there and negotiate a settlement with the saudis and the former yemeni government. But the others say no. That candidate have the fuel in the finance to keep going. They'd feel the wind was in their sales of pro government. Coalition would be demoralized. It will lose its last base in the north and so there are real questions about with the government itself could survive at all. it's leadership is in exile. Yemeni soldiers complain about unpaid salaries and the lack of arms and the rest of the country. Which is supposed to be under. The number of role of the government is fragmenting. There's a separatist movement. Called the southern transitional cancel and though it's as part of the coalition some in that council see the defeated. The government is possible win for them because they believe they could actually strike out for complete separation of the size for the north and rid themselves of nominal unity which the government represents so. You're really talking about a situation in which the government is already on. Its last legs and could collapse altogether. You mentioned that. Iran is providing weapons to the who. What about other international powers. What have they been doing. The united arab emirates which was allied with the saudis in trying to initially property yemeni government. Pull that most of its forces in two thousand nineteen the saudis themselves into now consider yemen to something of a trap. they've unintentionally enhanced iranian influence and strengthened. The who when they intended to do the opposite there are missile drone attacks on saudi cities and installations airports which the who these carrying out and even rating inside inside rare itself and so muhammad bin salman and they facto ruler of saudi arabia and the crown prince has reached out to the who faces appeal to them to join him at the negotiating table. And then you have the americans. Joe biden stronger line. Vis-a-vis saudi intervention in the fighting than his predecessor also stepping up. Our diplomacy end the war in yemen war which is created humanitarian strategic catastrophe. He's pledged to stop offensive themselves to saudi arabia. This war has to end and to underscore our commitment. We're ending all american support for offensive operations in the war in yemen including relevant arm sales and then last february. The american administration removed from that list of terrorist organizations. They've said that they will increase the flow of aid. They've also made efforts to kick start the peace process. But is that peace process. Going to happen. It doesn't look very promising the moment it's not going to be easy to bring the parties to some form of resolution mars defenders and most of its inhabitants to test the who and they rejected their religious beliefs. The open ground around. Mario makes it hard to penetrate the city. Saudi jets of bombarding the advance and at the same time. Yemen is increasingly part of a bigger picture of talks between iran and america. About what detente and the region would look like and until that's resolved the iranians likely to continue to treat yemen as a negotiating card so years into this conflict. Now there they're still no relief in sight for the people of yemen savvy. This is already the poorest country in the middle east. it's been ravaged by over seven years of fighting and and it just feels as if this war has a lot longer to run before besides can finally lay down their arms. Thanks very much for joining us. Piglets to be with you thank you. Adp we work with more than eight hundred sixty thousand companies worldwide. That gives us a pretty good idea of how to help. Businesses grow stronger whether it's through data insights that help you make informed decisions about building a team that works better as a team or by keeping you ahead of thousands of changing regulations. So you can keep ahead of everything else like building that better team grow stronger with adp hr talent time and payroll. Grab your finest this weekend. It's the belmont stakes. The third of the flagship triple crown of horse races. Saturday nights in america is a really really big deal. It's the third leg of the american triple crown. The belmont stakes in new york last month. A colt named medina spirit. One the first the kentucky derby but then. The horse failed a drug test this week. A second test confirmed that result. It's bad news for the horse and its trainer and it's indicative of a big and growing problem for the wider racing industry like all sports the covert pandemic presented a lot of challenges to the horse industry but the interest in horse racing has been declining for years rosemary. Award economists new york correspondent. Part of the problem is that outside of the excitement generated by three prestigious triple crown races that take place in america. Each year horse racing has been suffering from almost consistently bad press. And what's been because of that bad press. You know it's horse doping involving some of the most prestigious stables the most famous horses and the most recognized trainers most recently medina spirit. The horse who last month won the kentucky derby one of the three big triple current events tested positive for excessive amounts of better method zone which is an anti inflammatory drug permission but only in small amounts so as a result. The horse's trainer bob baffert who is one of the most widely known sports figures. Even outside horse racing has been banned from participating in this weekend. Belmont stakes the third leg of the triple crown. And that's a really big deal. He's one of the most prominent figures in the sport. He has an astonishing sixteen triple. Crown wins for his horses but he has a lot of infractions. Five medical drug infractions in the past year alone. But he's not alone. There's been dozens of high profile doping cases in recent years. And this is doping as we see in in human sports just fruit better performance well better performance but not in terms of getting stronger or improving endurance. Most of these medical drugs do is hide or mask any injuries that the horses may be suffering from so that they can race through a sore leg or a pulled muscle or any number of injuries and horses are extremely fragile so they get injured very easily and presumably masking. Those injuries is even worse for them. Well as you can imagine just like he would be ill-advised for any of us to run on. Say a sprained anything for a horse. Doing it at full speed. It's really bad and these drugs. They're hiding underlying issues. I mean the reason why we have pain and so we take care of it and a lot of these cumulative damages caused by these drugs can cause catastrophic injuries and even death on the track. Horses are more likely to break down and they need to be euthanized and these drugs are allowed in small amounts. And they're often needed but when these legal drugs are combined in what's called stocking which is layering different drugs and small amounts. It can harm the animals in the short term and the long term and it frankly skirts the spirit of these protective rules and so it's sort of within the rules but some people are skirting the spirit of it. I mean is there any moved to change the rules. Well california has now banned stacking meaning. Horses won't be on multiple medications but in other jurisdictions. You're still allowed to do that. So what really is needed. A strong national oversight and we may have that on the home stretch the horse racing integrity and safety act was signed into law in december by president trump. one of his last acts as president and it would require national uniform safety standards which will include anti doping and medication controlled and scott stanley. A chemist i interviewed at the gluck. Equine center is helping to write those rules but encouragingly told me he's already seen signs of change. He's seen fewer medication. Infractions in service lab in kentucky. And he thinks it's because that the good trainers the quality trainers and vets are saying. I'm not taking any risks. They don't want to hurt their horses and they don't want to get into trouble but the bad press and doping is as you say not not the biggest problem for horse racing no far from it In fact probably doping is just a symptom of these bigger challenges. The biggest of all is financial. Fewer people are going to the races. Fewer people are making bets. And it's getting harder for the race industry specifically the tracks to make ends meet and on top of that. The typical fat is skewing much older. So they don't have you next generation of possible fans coming and so a lot of tracks are just closing down and is there anything being done to as it were rejuvenate the sport. Well i mean perhaps not the sports particularly but a lot of tracks have been introducing slot machines. Some are partnering casinos or becoming rushing knows which is sort of a mixture of racetracks and casinos. They're trying to become more of a destination saratoga which is a big race track in upstate. New york as mark itself as a family destination. And it's doing that successfully. But i was in belmont ten days ago and it was a beautiful sunday afternoon and it was pretty empty Pretty grim you know. There were few people there and from talking to staff. That's been the norm even before the pandemic so horse racing has an uphill battle to attract stabile audiences. Because frankly there's so much else that they could be doing. There's a lot of competition for their money and further attention but that was belmont recently and it is a very exciting sport but the problem is that the three prestigious racists a year that produce those few minutes of excitement is hardly a sustainable business model for an entire industry. But still i mean. Nbc one of the main television networks in america will carry the third leg of the triple crown this weekend and we'll be sure to get millions of viewers but the next day it'll be back to normal and given all that will you be watching the belmont stakes this weekend. You know i probably will. I mean it is very exciting race. It's the longest race of the triple crown. They call it the marathon and it's really anyone's race to win this year. Especially with bob bastard out of rosemary. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you jason. Here's merger there was the last of the fighters in the international brigades who went to spain in the civil war to help the left-wing republic against the fascists of francisco franco and he was intensely proud of having fought in that war and having been the last one standing so to speak. Andro is economists obituaries editor so he would appear at all the various awards ceremonies and so that honored him with a flag in his pocket into the drop of had he'd unfurl the flag of the spanish republic which is red yellow impeccable hid trae pit round his showed us then he would raise a clenched fist. Shout via val who though live socialism and he was a very old man at one hundred one when he died he would always say. Break into a republican. Some sort he'd sign on the front line in a voice that was carrying and clear as he was a young man again who robust over a year a he the in the rising a festive against the government brother raises his rifle against brother. That's the tragedy of civil war several seller. Gaza says he was desperate to fight as soon as the coup cad which was in july nine hundred ninety six. He was any seventeen at the time however and that was too young to enlist his father helped him produce a fake birth certificate which claimed he was nineteen and way he marched on cathedrals public and private buildings second village over the battle he has got involved in is one of the most notorious spanish civil war. This was at teruel in aragon inch is a little town and it was absolutely freezing weather and they tried to dislodge franco's troops and he was wounded. He was hit by shrapnel in the chest and the shoulder and he was invalided out but he was so keen to get back to the front line and having been detected as too young now to have been there he had to try and find some other group to join up with and that was when he began to think about the international brigades because they took in foreigners who absolutely determined to come and rescue the spanish republic from the fact his side as a miniature struggle. If you like and try to save the whole world from ashes them in his end battalion a swiss german attachment and america and they couldn't understand each other. But here i can. That all worked out absolutely fine. A lot of the time they were just hanging around because they weren't allowed to fight independently. They had to wait for orders from the main republican generals and commanders. It was quite a frustrating life at the brigades had whether of course they were all involved in the most tremendous cores as far as they were concerned and a lot of them were extremely idealistic and there was is he in october. Nineteen thirty eight. The republic suddenly decided that it would order all the international brigades to withdraw it. Homes that if all the foreign fighters went home on their side. Then franco would send home. All the foreign fighters on his side of civil war the government stronghold in the south of spain has capitulate insurgent took of general. Franco's army how is lost and joseph went home to valencia and he was arrested there and he was taken to a concentration camp. There were one thousand seven hundred republican fighters in his and most of them were being shot one after the other for attempting to escape and he was made to watch their executions and t remember the screams. They all went to their debts shouting. Vive violence following lead. Socialism long live the republic and he could not forget that i'm the soon as he was allowed to come out having spent sometime there sometime in prison he started fighting again in a guerrilla movement to organize the rural people in the northeast of spain but gradually it was clear that there was no future and he had a young family to think about said he decided ninety forty seven that he would actually depart for france and then he settled and he was not allowed to return to spain until nine hundred sixty five even though he was in exile he kept very sharp eye on everything that was happening. He was infuriated by continuing divisions of the left. He was still such a believer that socialism and indeed communism were the way of the future that men had to learn to be brothers. That money had banned still absolutely burning with the 'cause Showed most penitently. When he was interviewed as he got older people realized he was going to be the last one nine and went to his flat in to talk to him and he would receive them in a lounge that was absolutely full of posters medals. Hit one flag of the republic and it was notable or i suddenly noticed where marching these films that on the wall. He had the famous cash portrait. Che guevara looking very noble does if he's waiting for the dawn of socialism and beside him. There's a poster which features jurors have medi about the age of enlisting with that same. Look that chair has a dissipating the future as golden door for mankind and this was still his dream and he would say to the people who interviewed him. He needs me in this moment. When i can see that fascism is growing again in the world. I'll take up arms and i won't be afraid to go on foot across the pyrenees on joseph who's died aged one hundred and one. That's all for this episode of the intelligence. The shows editors are margarite. How and can get awesome. Are sound engineer. Is daniel lloyd evans for senior producers. Are chris mpc. Dunkin barbara and sam colbert. Producers are stevie hurts and william warren and assistant producer hostile with extra production. Help this week from kevin kane. We'll see you back here on monday. Off tie boo of axios. Today is a daily podcast that gives you the latest scoops and analysis to power day. But we don't just run through the headlines. We provide the important stories. You won't get anywhere else. Everything from politics to space to race injustice. So grab a cup of coffee or a cup of tea for me and join me for ten minutes every morning to get up to speed for the day ahead. You can listen to access today on apple spotify wherever you get your podcasts.

yemen yemeni government saudi arabia international brigades iran jason bomber kentucky mario northeast Nicholas pelham Saudi arabia franco muhammad bin salman american administration america medina spirit hutu government huskies gop
The Hack Heard Round the World

Pro Rata

10:28 min | 1 year ago

The Hack Heard Round the World

"Where we take your ten minutes is to get you smarter on the collusion of Tech Business Politics? I'm Dan per MAC on today's show Philadelphia's oil blues an apple races podcast stars but first the a hack heard round the world so if it weren't for the ongoing impeachment the country's biggest story right now would probably be allegations endorsed yesterday by the United Nations that Saudi the Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Soman hacked. Jeff bezos phone extracting a massive amount of data over a period of several months in two thousand eighteen. Here's the quick timeline. On April fourth two thousand eighteen bays. NBS Meet at a dinner party weeks later. NBA sends a video message via WHATSAPP and allegedly includes a secret piece of code that had been created by an Israeli spyware firm called NSO group. This is at around the same time. The Saudi dissident Jamal Kashogi writing critically of Saudi Arabia in the Bay zone Washington imposts few months later Kashogi gets murdered by the Saudi government with the CIA concluding the NBA himself was involved soon after that. The national enquirer exposes that bezos is cheating on his wife and they've got cell phone photos. The mistress's brother admits leaking information about the affair but insists that the photos didn't come from him. NBS privately privately texts pesos. Saying he's got nothing against the billionaires companies but Bazo says some different information and hires a consultant to examine his iphone that leads to the forensic report the UN yesterday concluded quote with medium to high confidence that NBS hacked basis and that conclusion matters a lot even though the Saudis loudly deny it politically because it means a US ally may have hacked someone who leads one of America's largest corporations and owns one of its most influential media outlets plus top trump adviser. Jared Kushner reportedly has used what's APP to communicate with NBS and that Israeli company NSO group. They used to be advised by former trump national security adviser and current federal convict. Michael Flynn from a tech perspective. What's APP is owned by facebook already last October sued? NSO group related to potential hacking based on vulnerabilities and WHATSAPP and from a business angle. At the time of the alleged hack. Nso Group was owned by a private equity firm whose investors include some of the country's country's largest public and corporate pension funds. The bottom line here is that this incident if verified touches at the highest levels of American power both private and public luke in fifteen seconds. We'll go deep cyber stoop reporter Shannon Vava but first this axios gives you the news and analysis. You need to get smarter faster. On the most important topics in our unique smart brevity format we cover topics from politics to science in Media Tech. Subscribe to get smarter. Faster at sign. INEPT AXIOS DOT COM and now back to the podcast. We're joined now by Chevra a former axios colleague who now covers cyber warfare rare and the NSA for cyber scoop so Shannon. Let's start here. How does the U N the United Nations become involved in this? Because this isn't the sort of thing sort of investigative work we think of when we think about the UN right so there was a report that was conducted by FDI consulting a business firm located in Washington. DC There's five or security team conducted analysis of Jeff. bezos is phone after. He believed he'd been hacked by Muhammad Bin Salman in two thousand eighteen and the United Nations became aware of this investigative report and they issued a statement analyzing the report this week sort of putting their political will behind it saying that mobile mobile malware and spyware like this needs to be reined in. Let me ask about the malware partner and this is the Middle East. It'd be getting a bit ahead of my skis from technological standpoint but my understanding the report Ford is they didn't find actual malware per se. But they did find what they called suspicious code and then a massive extraction of data from bezos. His phone so is the lack lack of malware. Is that important or is the fact that the data started leaving indication whether official malware or not. It's the same effect only questions have come up and information information security community as all of us are kind of doing postmortem of the FBI report. That's become public things to motherboard for publishing it but there's a lot of caveats involved here. They didn't find the malware as you said even though they believe there was malware on his phone. But the fact that there's no smoking gun there is really interesting in part because of the analysis that they conducted Ed and the reasons why they say they were unable to conduct certain analysis so not to get technical but for instance they encryption prevented them from analyzing the contents of the download. Our which is what they delivered the suspicious video file when you say encryption you mean encryption in the code the onset or just the general encryption because he used whatsapp which is an encrypted messenger. Service in general encryption here on that but also to download our was encrypted itself which makes it difficult to access but the issue here is download irs. When they they come through? WHATSAPP are downloaded alongside? With the keys. That would decrypt the download. Her so it's a little confusing to hear that encryption prevented them from accessing it and the fact that the report. It doesn't really explain what happened. There has left a lot of people in the Information Security Community confused about why they were unable to access that information facebook last October pursued. Ns Ogre now NSO. Group is the company that created. Apparently the spyware that allegedly bs and the Saudis used here facebook sued them for something. Like this does this track in other words is what facebook sued. NSO group four very similar to what it seems F. T. I in the. US found facebook food. Ns Oh group for allowing hackers. T's a flaw law and that allowed hackers to hundreds of journalists and politicians. And what's interesting here is on top of facebook ceiling here. There's also an Israeli human rights lawyer WHO's suing in Israel the Ministry of defence that he hopes would restrict company's ability to sell spyro like this. And if there's political will to change the way that expert licenses work for this that would be really interesting and important for people who are either prominent like Jeff Bezos or vulnerable like political dissidents or journalists. Here I'm reporting now based on what you said on twitter you tried to get comment repeatedly from the US State Department on this and what they came back to you with finally was quote we are aware of the media reports and are concerned about the allegations and quote nowhere in that statement is and we plan into investigate to your knowledge do US authorities plan to investigate there have been reporting that the FBI is investigating this but the State Department basically refuse to answer my questions on that. That's kind of what their response was to. I was asking whether they were going to launch an investigation whether they support an investigation being launched and the reason that matters is because the United United Nations officials who are coming out on this based on this report are saying one the US should be investigating this to other law enforcement agencies around the world should be investigating Mohammed bin Salman alleged involvement in Hacking Jeff Bezos. But also other political dissidents around the world we know dot researchers Irish security researchers have documented that political go does it ends and journalists in Mexico and Morocco have been targeted with SPYRO. Like this and it rains a lot of concern for the United Nations final question for you let me ask you about a political figure. Who's he's not a dissident? which is Jared Kushner? There was reporting a couple of years ago that he was regularly communicating with. NBS Via. What's happened there? Were security people at the time who raised red flags about that. I should you know whether it be the FBI or State Department of Justice. Should they be also concerned that beyond Bezos that they're senior people in the White House who have communicated with MBBS via the same technology. That's definitely something that causes some concern in the information security community and on a I take away from this is don't go texting. NBS right but we can't really be flippant about it because it's a major national security issue when you can be able to send an MP for video file and then possibly infect someone else's phone own with malware and they don't have to take any action necessarily and the other thing here is just to on a high level MB went on a tour of the US and everybody felt for right. He said I'm going to radically change Saudi Arabia. I'm going to rule in a different way. But meanwhile he's jailing political dissidents. He's going to soon murder. Jamal Kashogi the American journalist who it was a columnist at the post and then also allegedly hacking business now and it just raises questions about who cozied up to Saudi Arabia. And why and WHO's still cozied up to Saudi Arabia and and why shouldn't have ever thank you so much for joining us. My final two right after this there is more news out there than ever before but these days it's harder than ever to find. I didn't know what to trust axios. AM takes effort out of getting smart by synthesizing. The ten stories. That will drive the day and telling you I. They matter subscribe at sign up dot axios axios DOT COM and now back to the podcast. Now it's I'm from my final to begin South Philadelphia where a five thousand Acre oil. It'll refinery property has sat silent since last summer when part of it caught fire and exploded the facility is called Philadelphia Energy Solutions and previously had been the east coast largest largest and oldest oil refinery. And it's the one you often see when flying into phillies airport. It'd be struggling in the earlier part of last decade before private equity firm. The Carlyle Group swooped in and struck a deal with existing owner Sonoko. Saving eight hundred fifty jobs and it's the sort of thing that Carlisle talked about a lot. It was the good private equity story. But within the company slumped again filed for bankruptcy in two thousand sixteen clawed its way back out and then well again it literally exploded sadly the news. Is that a Chicago. Hutto based investment firm has agreed to buy the property out of bankruptcy but has no plans to reopen it as a refinery meaning that the one thousand or so jobs many of which have been filled by unions union. Steelworkers aren't coming back and finally this morning. If you listen to these podcasts via Apple Itunes you may have noticed that these star ratings have disappeared. If you've seen in these used to be able to give us one star to five stars but not anymore the written user reviews those still exist just not the stars kind of following a trend by other certain social media platforms that's de emphasizing. Things like likes so. If you WANNA leave us a review you'll have to actually leave us a review. We look forward to reading it and no longer having to stress over stars. And we're done big. Thanks for listening to my producers. Tim Show Verizon Shaven have a great National Pie Day. Not Apple Pie Day or Cherry Pie Day just Pi. Hi Day and we'll be back tomorrow with another pro rata podcast.

Jeff. bezos NBS United Nations Saudi Arabia facebook Nso Group US FBI Jamal Kashogi Jared Kushner Philadelphia apple WHATSAPP UN Information Security Community Washington Muhammad Bin Salman national enquirer Saudi government NBA
Bidens Middle East woes

Post Reports

26:37 min | 3 months ago

Bidens Middle East woes

"This post reports podcast is sponsored by facebook for newsroom of the washington cups. June all over the washington post reports. Martine powers monday march first today accountability for the death of jamaica shuki and the other three challenges for biden in the middle east after the october. Twenty eighth murder of james kashogi various reports were leaked from the cia saying that they believed that the crown prince mohammed bin salman had either ordered it or was definitely responsible for the killing by saudi agents. Congress beginning in one thousand nine hundred and started demanding Some kind of unclassified version of these conclusions. And they actually passed a law ordering the administration to tell them in an unclassified. What the conclusions were that had been drawn karen too young covers national security for the post and she's been reporting on the data journalist in washington post columnist. Jamal khashoggi for two years. The trump administration basically ignored this legal mandate when president biden's nominee for the intelligence director. Had her confirmation hearing she able hanes was directly. Asked if you are confirmed. We use submit to the congress. The unclassified report required by the law. Yes senator actually will follow the law. Thank you now. We have it released. It's very short. But they have complied with what they promised to do. And what are the top line takeaways of this report. The very first paragraph says we believe that mohammed bin salman authorized. The killing of jamal khashoggi. It then goes on to say this is why we think that it describes his position in saudi arabia that he is a de facto leader. That nothing happens of this magnitude without his direct involvement that the agents. Who did it worked for. A small Special unit in the intelligence service that reported directly to him. I believe that there is other more direct intelligence that was not included in this unclassified version but basically they concluded that he did it. So this confirms a lot of what we as americans had heard previously that this was essentially a direct result of the actions are intentions of muhammad bin salman right and then the report also notes that this special unit that he established really was charged with finding dissidents all over the world and that there had been other examples of people saudis citizens in exiles essentially just simply disappearing as well as a lot of saudi dissidents inside of saudi arabia. So it was in keeping with a pattern. There had been other investigations both outside and inside the united states here in the intelligence community that had drawn those conclusions. The report itself was not any big surprise. It was the fact that it was finally made public intelligence conclusions unclassified and responded to what congress had demanded and has president biden responded to the results of this report or said anything about what he will do going forward because of this confirmation of the involvement of mama bin salman before they released it they had many many many internal meetings Knowing that that this was going to be very carefully watched the biggest question was. Would they sanction him directly as an individual would. They say he'll never get visa. Would they freeze all of his funds overseas and basically they concluded that it was just too hard his money. His resources are directly tied to the saudi government. They concluded that they would bring sanctions against everyone below him. That they knew was directly involved in the killing establish a new law that applied to every country which they call the kashogi ban. That says anyone who's found to be involved in suppressing journalists free speech at home and abroad anyone tracking dissidents would be prohibited from getting a visa to come to the united states and that their relationship with him would not be as the de facto ruler of saudi arabia which is now but as defense minister which he also is which means that he would not be treated by the united states as the leader of saudi arabia which which the trump administration had essentially done but it seems like these actions at the biden administration is taking are still falling short from what a lot of people expected or hoped or thought that biden was going to do based on how he talked about. Saudi arabia on the campaign trail show was in fact. Murdered dismembered. I believe in the order of the crown prince. And why would make it very clear we were not going to infect sell more weapons to then secretary antony blinken was asked about this and i'm wondering what did he say about this idea that the us isn't taking a strong stand as possible in light of the findings of this report. Well he basically said the relationship with. Saudi arabia is bigger than any one. Individual of the president engaged As you know with king solomon we deal with saudi arabia the country. We don't deal with any individual. There's an argument to be made for that in all of their arguments about why. It's just a step too far to actually sanction this individual. The problem is that a lot of people as you said think. That's not enough. You know they want punishment they look at what biden said on the campaign trail that saudi arabia. We were in fact. Make them pay the price and make them in fact a pariah that they are pariah that it is he said for this. He has done other things. He has stopped. Us weapons sales of anything. That's being used in the saudi war in yemen. He said that every other saudi purchase of us defense equipment is currently under review. And that's a pretty big deal because the saudis are the biggest customer for us arms of anybody in the world when you look at how the biden administration starting to lay out its plan on dealing with saudi arabia. What do you think that tells us about. How biden is approaching foreign policy more generally think. He's pretty cautious. But i think that there are legitimate reasons for that again. He's gonna get a lot of criticism for being seen as not cracking down enough time. They've been very careful always to say that they are committed to the defense of saudi arabia. Virtually all of the saudi military equipment is from the united states and that requires endless maintenance. Spare parts people going back and forth and they feel in general that the saudis are an enormously important player in the middle east. They're an enormously important player in the muslim world. And so they've they've basically taken a calibrated stance and again. They'll get criticism for that. Young covers national security for the post twenty five years ago. Phones weren't smart yet and people still said facts me. The internet has changed a lot since nineteen ninety-six but that's the last time. Comprehensive internet regulations were passed. That's why facebook wants updated internet regulations to set clear guidelines for addressing. Today's toughest challenges protecting privacy enabling safe and easy data portability between platforms and more learn more about why. Facebook supports updated internet regulations at about dot. Fb dot com slash regulations biden of course campaigned rather conspicuously on this idea. He and his administration would bring about a kind of restoration of american leadership on world. Stage shelter or write about foreign affairs for the post After four years of what's been perceived as wrecking ball diplomacy by trump when it comes to the middle east. It's a pretty thorny set of challenges that await president biden having to both think through these challenges mean for his american interests but also having to undo some of the work that trump did so it seems like biden's relationship with saudi arabia is going to be complicated or somewhat of a high wire act What are the other challenges. That biden is facing right now. Of course the main one on his played in the one probably most focused on when it comes to released is is attempting to salvage the nuclear deal with iran when he was vice president as we know in twenty fifteen the us presided over this forging of the nuclear deal with the iranians a deal that essentially put a box around the iran nuclear program and which international inspectors believed was working. The iranians were not enriching uranium answered levels to get towards nuclear weapon and it was seen at the time as a vital steppingstone toward a greater diplomatic opening with iranians. Of course that'll change when trump came in often eventually to scrap the us commitment to the deal and reimpose sanctions on iran. And then the last couple of years you've seen the iranians themselves react to these sanctions by abrogating the terms of the deal and starting enrichment. And then this past week there was a major showdown. The ron's wanted to implement a new law where they would block. Un inspectors from their nuclear sites. And so you had a moment of shuttle diplomacy that stopped around from fully blocking inspectors. Which would have been a big deal. And now you're seeing. The biden administration and the europeans work their way towards a process with the iranians to to lower tensions and down the road. Bring both sides back into the deal. It's a bit fraught. It's a big complicated. There's a lot of domestic pressure against this. Both in washington and in iran were in iran hardliners. Who essentially say. We don't trust any kind of diplomacy with the west of this points. And we don't want to to concede anything anymore to the americans. And i feel like that's the part that i find very interesting. Were or the big question in all of this like of course it makes sense to me that the biden administration wants to basically go back to the deal. That obama put in place to feel like they are on better diplomatic terms with iran. But does iran want. That is their attitude a sense of openness to you. Okay sure we can go back to this thing that was established by obama a few years ago and pretend like the trump administration never happened or is their attitude that they feel burned and they say you know this was the one chance to try to have a deal where we were all on the same page of how to move forward and you all messed it up. So why would we go back to that at least in terms of their public statements. It's it's very much the letter. On sunday you saw the iranians reject this proposed set of talks brokered by the the europeans with the americans which would have been a pretty significant first step towards some kind of process of diplomacy or solution to the current impasse. And the reason for the rejection of that was what they've been essentially telegraphing all along. Which was the We've not seen the sanctions relief for these a fraction of sanctions relief. That we demand right now and that it's the fault of the americans who unilaterally decided to abrogate the terms of nuclear deal that international observers by and large believe iran was adhering to and imposed sanctions. And so it should be the americans who have to make the first step now. We're led to believe that in private and in terms of the kind of channels of communication that are open between the iranians and the west that their position in private is considerably more nuance than what they articulating in public and that they will probably engage in a process. That eventually finds some sort of tit for tat set of agreements. And i also wanna talk a bit more about the us relationship with israel. Because i think at least to me it seemed like one of the big narratives. From the trump administration's foreign policy was the extent to which trump was friends with benjamin netanyahu. They were just like similar personalities. They seem to really get along and that really shaped the us. Its relationship with israel. Is that something that we anticipate going forward for the biden administration. It's a huge issue. The trump administration president trump himself really smashed a lot of norms when he came to the us israeli relationship and specifically the israeli palestinian peace process. He basically gave a series of gift political gifts to that who the who at the same time held trump entitled political embrace over the past. Four years biden is absolutely an as well as vice president kamala harris. You could hardly describe the anti-israeli politicians they value the israeli relationship and they will want to maintain it. I think the main distinction they will want to draw in the coming months and of course again israel is about to have its fourth election in less than two years. Answer would they want to to draw a line under is that they're happy to develop a strong bond with the israelis but they don't necessarily want to their their agenda to that of netanyahu and that's a distinction that would probably not please netanyahu but won't necessarily either change some of the facts on the ground that have been formalized by trump. What are those essentially looking at a situation where the quote unquote two state solution has been effectively put in the ground by the trump administration. The possibility of an independent viable palestinian state looks remote. And it doesn't seem at all clear that the biden administration will want to exert the kind of leverage they would need to to make it a possibility again in the next few years or that they have that leverage at this point to do that. And so there's going to be a pretty delicate dance about that. In the months maybe years to come so on thursday of last week president biden authorized. An air strike on syria and the attack was specifically on facilities used by iranian backed militias. I'm curious what do you think this. Recent attack tells us about biden's approach on syria and about how different is from trump's approach and syria. Well we don't have too many clues in terms of an overarching biden. A vision for syria and the sense. We get right now especially with these kind of actions is that there's a great degree of continuity not just with what the trump administration did that also with the preceding obama administration which while actively pushed against the regime of syrian president bashar al-assad continue much to reshape the battle on the ground or or support the forces that could effectively remove him from power. The strike on this iran linked militia in syria was really less about syria Than it was about the complicated geopolitics in iraq where iranian-linked forces there have carried out various attacks on us and iraqi military positions in part because iran regime is trying to leverage its various assets to put pressure on the americans as they try to figure out a way to come back to the table with the iranians. So this is part of a a pretty tricky geopolitical dance which ultimately has very little to do with the fate of the syrian population or any kind of process that could be meaningful end of the syrian war. I also think it's important to talk about anthony. Blinken biden's new secretary of state and how he is going to play a role in all of this. Can you walk through a little bit about who he is what. His general approach is to these kinds of challenges. And how do you think he is going to affect. Us policy in the middle east. Well blinken is is a known quantity both in washington and In foreign capitals elsewhere. he's a tremendous. The area died veteran diplomat of successive. American administrations He somebody who grew up for time in in europe and speaks fluent french. This is a pretty significant departure from a figure. I'd say like secretary of state. Mike pompeo and his kansas swagger blinken though is very much a creature of the washington establishment and the fact. that blinken is so different from pompeo and has such a different professional background and More experience in dealing with foreign policy under the obama administration under the clinton administration. What difference do you think that's going to make an actual policy right now. Well we've talked in washington for such a long time about having adults in the room and blinken would certainly count as one he somebody with a degree of expertise a certain level sobriety around these issues Commitment to finding them fully. He's he's been around the block in many contexts. Of course he is very much a creature of the washington establishment. And you have. He has critics on the left. Who you know point to a series of missteps whether it's an in supporting the iraq war or or sort of pointing to various failures comes to the arab spring or navigating the conflict in syria. So he's he's not somebody beyond reproach by any means so in terms of these criticisms from the left that lincoln supported decisions like invading. Iraq is our fear that that will be his stance going forward that he will be more of an interventionist than some democrats. Want to see right. Now i think and maybe i'll be proven wrong in the years to come. The were sort of past this. Kind of era of characterizing policymakers as liberal interventionist. Now i don't think there's anybody. In the biden administration that eager to be participating or prolonging or concocting new interventions. Around the world you you've heard from an array of biden officials including the national security advisor. Jake sullivan that. The biden foreign policy agenda is fundamentally should be a domestic agenda. It's one of the called it a foreign policy for the middle class. They don't want to be engaged in the kind of imbroglios that we saw you know. Say fifteen years ago nine eleven. it's an open debate home. Whether trump really did reduce the american footprint in his time in his office he as much as we talked about troop withdrawals and so on and then but the one that you are seeing and this is where i guess you can talk about. Liberal interventionism is a renewed commitment to at the very least that kind of lip service to human rights. You already have blinken coming out. Condemning certain abuses by the egyptian government speaking out for protesters in various parts of the world and the question is in especially we go. Forward as biden has to navigate a whole thicket of complicated Geopolitics is you know to what extent those concerns about human rights and they very openly said that human rights matter again to this administration twenty seven the us can can develop teeth around articulating. Those concerns is interesting because what you are describing in terms of how the biden administration plans to approach issues abroad. It plans to kind of put more heft behind talking about human rights violations and leaning into diplomacy but ultimately like not really wanting to get involved. I wonder if that is actually so different. From the trump administration like it does seem that biden is willing to go out more on a limb to criticize wrongdoings that he sees around the world war to try to put more attention into real diplomacy but at the end of the day. Like he doesn't really want the us to get that involved door sees that as a risk as well in a way. That doesn't seem so different from The trump administration's attitude of the. Us should not be getting involved. This'll be the central tension surrounding how we think about biden's foreign policy in the months and years to come. He has framed. The experience of the trump era has kind of rupture a rupture that he now wants to heal and paper. Over and trump himself characterized his presidency. Ad that rupture but we're seeing on a lot of fronts a degree of continuity as you said that is of course in the ways in which the white house approaches israel that is of course on view when it comes to how they approach some of these gulf monarchies which have longstanding security relationship with the american establishment is important to remember that were now in various parts of middle east marking a decade since the uprisings of the arab spring a decade ago. This is an incredibly hopeful moments for meaningful political change in the region. The obama administration to a certain extent embraced these democratic uprisings. But of course the obama legacy there is not a happy one they. They celebrated these aspirations for democracy and greater human rights invade rule of law. But the eventually didn't do much to buttress. these revolutions day. They went along with a counter revolution in egypt. They saw an uprising in syria. Morph into a hideous decade-long civil war and eventually set their stall next to The same folks that trump did and that is the the arab monarchs in the uae and saudi arabia who have had longstanding relations with washington and powerful interests there and so as biden wrestles with the israeli palestinian question with the iranian nuclear program with the war in yemen. We'll see how much the logic changes shantha aurora writes about foreign affairs for the post. He is the author of the newsletter. Today's world view netted for post reports. Thanks for listening. The pandemic has been dragging on for almost eight year. Now we want to hear how you are coping quarter voice memo telling us who you are where you live and what you've been doing in the last year to find joy and send it to you post reports at wash post dot com. I'm martine powers. Oh you back tomorrow with more stories from the washington post. The internet has changed a lot in twenty five years. But that's the last time. Comprehensive internet regulations were passed. Learn more about why. Facebook wants updated internet regulations at about dot. Fb dot com slash regulations.

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 Tories scramble to defend Johnson: Politics Weekly podcast

The Guardian UK: Politics Weekly

38:27 min | Last month

Tories scramble to defend Johnson: Politics Weekly podcast

"The guardian with one week to go until the local elections the prime minister's probably wishing he hadn't poked to the back. I'm jessica al. Got deputy political editor of the guardian. And this is politics. Weekly what we get from this prime minister this conservative government. Don't you come tracks jobs for their mates cash for access and who's at the heart of it. The prime minister major sleaze sitting that following a nuclear blog. Post boris johnson's former top advisor dominic. Cummings the pm is now facing multiple claims of impropriety. So where to start. I as the home decorative days after cummings claim that there were plans to have dona secretly pay for renovations. The electoral commission an outfit was launching a formal investigation into how boris johnson funded. The work is downing street. Flat kissed on try to get a direct answer from johnson at prime minister's questions alia hugh initially paid for refurbishments but johnson just responded over and over that the main thing to know is that he eventually the bill. He has half an hour every week to put serious insensible questions to me about the state of the pandemic about the vaccine roller about what we're doing to support our about what we're doing to fight crime about what we're doing to bounce back from this pandemic about economic recovery about jobs for the people of this country and he goes on and on mr speaker about wallpaper as i've told him i'm teen times now i paid for it where the money came from remains unclear. Halt the question that's what the public's scream that televisions every pm cues so the question. The price has also answer the question. He knows he has an answer. The question it never answers the question. Then as the alleged comment made by the prime minister when according to sources. He said he'd rather let the bodies pileup pie in that thousands and locking the country down again johnson and siemian ministers have emphatically denied that he said it but given the number of accusations flying pm these days. It's hard to know whether to believe it which is quite an indictment in itself and finally who is the chatty rats so where will this end and with the local elections looming when it really matter plus with europe desperate to welcome travelers this summer. All holidays abroad on the qods. That's well in this week's politics weekly first round up in the latest in the so called tory sleaze. I'm joined by guarding columnist zoe. Williams and sonia soda is lovely to have you both on I guess maybe we should rewind a bit in start with this pretty nuclear blog. Post of dominic cummings last week and apparently giordani number at nine. This johnson went to some newspaper editors to tell them that that cummings was responsible for a whole load of damaging leagues including the leak of the awesome lockdown and one is flat including texts between him and and the saudi leader mohammed bin salman. He was obviously the one who hired. Cummings even david cameron cooled. cummings career psychopath. Why do you think he. He hired him in the first place. Why did why does dominate. Cummings take the job. Kid has quote of disdain for the prime minister. Tessa such an interesting and huge question. I mean certainly they. He hired him in the first place because he knows how to win right. Don't cummings has not let anybody down. If you're going to him for winning pups he won brexit. He won the election for boris johnson. So he has something. And i think the psychopathic side of him on the winning side of him all the same side of him. I think he has a sewer to if you know. Everybody always uses this language about him. He's like an s. He's the kind of guy who die mending his own. Boiler because the plumbers an idiot they use this really kind of air rated explosive language. Because he just doesn't care you know he will destroy everything if he does bring boris johnson. Down that will be the third consecutive prime minister. He's brought down so there's something very very destructive in his energy but is if you want things destroyed you know a labor stronghold in the red wall for instance or relationship with the eu if you plan for your own domination is to destroy something very major other people hold dear then dome. Cummings is you'll man. He doesn't seem to have any restraint. i think. that's why johnson employed him. You why they've fallen out. A lot of people are kind of saying well. Isn't that a coincidence. Dot com has never been able to produce a blog post at less than ten thousand words and suddenly he finds the can express himself quite well in quite persuasively in a hundred words. So maybe there's some kind of journalist helping him out the inference. That hoping that michael g-o-v is sort of in the background. Having been stepped down and very much sidelined for reasons that haven't yet come out govan coming in cahoots in order to to to kind of take the whole show off road. I think is just as likely that. Donate cummings was always perfectly capable of expressing himself and he just doesn't have the restraint if you think about the way he talked people who'd worked with before my favorite line was always about david davis when he said he was lazy is a towed thick mints. I mean you know. He absolutely goes for the jugular and there is no once that at odds with one another there is nowhere. Cummings won't go so you know the mystery is why why. Boris johnson didn't anticipate that and try and head off rather than taking the fight to cummings but that's probably to do with his arrogance and failure to plan ahead sunday coming says gee to give evidence to impede about the government's covid response on the twenty th the may do you think there's a lot more that he'll want to say about his beliefs. What where the government got things wrong. He also seems to think you can kind of read between the lines of tweets. He's re tweeting liking that scientists got things wrong in the run up to the first lock down including on mask wearing which they didn't necessarily immediately endorse and on a border closures. Do you think he's prepared to take a lot of people down with him. Not just the promise to pop. Yeah i mean. I think he's prepared to do whatever it takes that. He's cost in a good light and i think that's the thing about this is really extraordinary. I think they will be much more to come in his testimony to the select committee. I think number ten all quite nervous about it rightly say is extraordinary. That we've got a former adviser. He basically doesn't really have much about the government. He's just laughed. He feels a lot of passing animosity at two. Am he's not ideologically. Conservative in the same way that people like johnson and michael guida say. I think he will say what he wants. But i think thing that we've got to remember as i may found boris johnson actor. He's a man completely lacking in integrity. But let's face it. So is dominic cummings look a campaign. They run together for brexit which essentially completely misled voters about the implications of staying in the just Tried to protect between them. So i think he will basically want to cost himself in the best light possible so that means that we really trust what he says either. We shouldn't take it as read just because we are in this extraordinary second. And i think the other thing i would just chicken coming back to. So why. Boris johnson To coming visit. While i just i just think it reinforces the fox that boris johnson is a man of incredibly poor judgment on. I think we've seen that all throughout the last year in the government's handling of the pandemic he's incredibly decisive. He gets swung around by his capita amount of principle. He doesn't what he thinks. I think it's just yet another piece of evidence. He is not man a sound judgment. He's not somebody wise. He's not the kind of person we need. Leading the country during global pandemic and obviously dominant cummings himself Not really feels like that. He thought points on you that you're making the point where there was. There was the breakdown of relationships where cummings clearly felt that the prime minister was holding out against something that was inevitable and making it worse in the lead up to november lockdown and and overstate. He also found himself with the prime minister's field. And say who will come to a little bit later. But i wanna talk about the kind of two fronts. That number ten of fighting on and there are obviously lows of other different spiraling stories including green cell including the european super league including the text with muhammad bin salman. There are so many things that have come out over the past week or so. But i wanna talk particularly first of all about whether you think the mood damaging for the prime minister is these words that he apparently said about you know he would raw the seed. The bodies pile up than impose. A third lockdown something that number ten. We should say really strongly denied the prime minister's denies on the record. They're last strongly denying the fact he said something along the lines of he'd rather let it rip than force people to closed businesses again. They say that distortion but they don't hundred percent denied that he ever said anything along those lines and you can imagine carton you. I wonder whether you think the public can understand zoe. That in a very very very high stress environment and we we'd probably know from newsrooms that people say things that are not appropriate at times of high stress. There's black humor lots of. I'm trying to be generous. There's black humor and difficult language used in lots of workplaces where there's high stress and it might. It might be that. Do you think the public will understand that. The problem with this is you can really imagine. Boris johnson saying it is very consonant with the way he writes it's very consonant with the way he talks has that kind of slightly arcane weird word order let the bodies piled high in their thousands. You know it sounds exactly like the man you know so the idea that anybody is in any doubt i think is kind of for the birds even though number ten has denied it. It's interesting that the bbc has tried to give a slightly different angle. You know he wasn't saying i don't care. If the bodies pile high in thousands he was saying bodies may pile high in their thousands. If this happens a not suggest to me that there's some back channel going on where they know they can't deny it forever and they just want to gloss it in a different way but his quest strong thing isn't it for them to the him to lie down the camera for mark guy to lie in the commons. That's that's a big deal isn't it. I think it would have been a big deal from a different prime minister. But i don't think anybody easy. I don't think anybody would be surprised if it transpired that he was lying. Straight down a camera so all those kind of norms we previously had you know a senior politician will go this far down the road of dishonesty but not this fall. I think those are sort of twenty nine thousand nine hundred politics. I think in the person of boris johnson. We accepted that. There was a kind of truth quotient in any normal way but i think the more interesting thing is what you were saying about the. Isn't this just a language. People use in high stress environments. Won't people just understand improv. It you say extraordinary things. And i think that is not true it because you know people have a really high tolerance for politicians tavern bold truths to one another which they wouldn't be able to say in a press conference on newsnight. They have a high tolerance for kind of grim adult honesty. And if it sounded like that. Then i think it would have just disappeared the scandal but what is house. I can stay it. Somebody who doesn't really care in a normal way news. It's somebody who doesn't really care. For the future of his fellow citizens that was sort of always will lay beneath his lovable. Rogue ext area was just the plain rogue. The person who just doesn't care about anybody. I think it kind of speaks to that thing. The even the people who liked boris johnson knew about words johnson in such kind of believable. Way that i don't think it's going to go away. I mean possibly. I think the more damaging thing will be related to carry which i know. We're gonna come to in a minute. But i don't think he's going to be able to wriggle out this summer. I wonder how much more damaging you think the revelations about boris johnson's refurbishment very expensive refurbishment of his downing street. Flat would be whether reports are that. He attempted to sit up. We know that he attempted to set up a trust to pay for the upkeep of number ten which would be chaired by tori doda. That torreon did give cash to the conservative party. What's unclear still is whether the conservative party than lent. boris johnson. The money and then. Boris johnson has paid them back for it. That number ten is still not being clear about that and just saying that no conservative party funds are being used. We know they're not being used. of course. the question is whether they were used. How how bad do you think that looks that he was so so disenchanted with the john. Lewis nightmare nightmares. Apparently it was described inside of theresa. May's thoughtful that was so terribly you know lower middle class or whatever my thought about it that he he had to immediately spend tens of thousands of pounds on a refurbishment. Well i think it's damaging because it plays into perceptions about conservative party as being people. Just don't really kinda get. How odin we people leave at something that they've really tried to shake off with some success for example during a breakfast campaign Implied that they were on the side of ordinary people. He wanted brexit This story so first of all that the idea that the thousand pounds on your official allowance for refurbishment and upkeep of the damage. But i mean he thousand pounds a huge sum of money. But somehow that was enough for boris johnson and he felt he needed an extra sixty k. In that i mean who needs nineteen thousand pounds to refurbish flat. That has been refurbished. Quite recently in donna quite recently just kiss extraordinary. This idea seven going was on the radio this week. My goes so to say while prime minister's copy expected to live in a skit. I mean good. Lord as if downing street at the eleven downing street is a skip. And i think it just plays into this idea that just no idea how new people left the idea of living in a house with john lewis chiming. It's a luxury of us liquid. Kfi if we're lucky on then. I think that's the second aspect to the story which is really about sleaze. I'm so of this money. i'm where did it come from. A was originally intended to be dilation so from a why wasn't it to clad to the prime minister bright little. I think that's slightly trickier to london ways. Because it's more technical. But i think it's also important i think the thing about as it's quite hard to measure this in terms of instantaneous po impacts i think that the way that public perception to politicians work is more complicated than d. They oppose the following week and reunited to re to poet amendment. Will the nice warm poll this they suggests outrageous is shrimp quebec resulting stuff but in some ways people psychologically want to feel good at the moment because of vaccines being weld out by is really kind of determining the national media about politics rather than say what happened last year but that doesn't mean that stuff is relevant on that it's just gonna go away. They will come tipping point where actually made the economy some fitting that great price pandemic if x brexit obeying fell Sixty two brexit minds. Then i think this stuff really will start to so do you think it modest labor land the narrative right now even if it doesn't affect poll ratings instantaneously on i think to say well resisted in the late. This stuff is having a fat. I think that's just too simplistic view of the way that the public petitions. It's it's really funny because you know You know when you first wake up and you you haven't got your work brain on and you just respond to the news like a human being unnoticed. Those stories in the daily mail today about carrying boris. A now was that detail that he said to aids. She spying gold wallpaper. I just can't afford it and newsradio panicking. Because he was going to go bankrupt and the the kind of human me. that doesn't care about conservative. So why couldn't he just have that. Confidence won't relationship is that he can say to her. Don't buy gold wallpaper. We can't afford it. And i think there's elements of this. That really will ram home on top. Of what jeff said that you know. They don't live like normal people. They snare at john lewis day more and more sound like kind of strange people who don't have real relationships who's real who's a faz on real who's conversations aren't real. They sound like you get characters in poorly written sitcoms. Johnson is looking more and more idiosyncratically corrupt brawl than part of a corrupt apple wagon. I wanna talk a little bit about about carrying also the advisers that johnson has. We saw simon case. The cabinet secretary amazon bruin to be the top civil servant previously having worked to the policy should have some experience of toxic environments. But he's he seemed to kind of be pleading the fifth when he was asked by anything to do with the flat refurbishment ending to do with with the lobbying inquiries that we know we're going on and came across as someone who wasn't necessarily and going to be the man to tell the prime minister no and there are very few experienced aides close aides. We know that his longtime director of comes lee. Cain also deposited along with cummings his chief of staff eddie lister. He's been linked to a few of these kind of conflict of interest stories. He's gone as well. There aren't very many people now who sort of long-term aids of boris who are longtime experienced in the conservative party. Apart perhaps from from kerry simmons he was director of comes of the conservative party. And i guess again i. I don't know why i'm position myself. Who is in the generous field. But maybe it's because you own with me and so he just posing the question. I'm just posing the question. I think is just because you nice. She does have some experience and therefore is it just sexism to write her. Offer someone who cares about gold wallpaper that she does care about the strategy of the government. She has got some ideas about how it should go. She hasn't liked the kind of blow cash way that it was run and say why. Why shouldn't she have some influence. I do think there is sexism about cheap. I mean i think all the stories about people expressing outrage that she might have influenced the prime minister. I mean that completely nuts. He's running the country cousy students to his partner for advice. I think that's entirely to be expected. I think the biggest point to make all this is it. She's paul one faction a member other very clear factions delineated endowment straight. It seems completely dysfunctional at all. These sites politicking against each other during a global pandemic. There's no strategy Be different within downing street. As as the cabinet. And boris johnson seems to have cool up in this sort of personal site opera and all these arguments between people like his fiancee onto his top advisors which actually seem to be possible rather than extensive. I might think that is the key issue while the dan is it right to carry simmons tussle of influence over the prime minister. She does Going to be able to change that but we should be concerned That is part of a very factionalized divided number ten for almost Saying the labor prime ministers that had a number eleven where of unity but it does seem to be much worse at the moment on Levels of dysfunction just seem to be actively crazy during what is after all national emergency. This claimed they were hundred and twenty thousand people's lives. It's very difficult to take seriously as either professional person or lady macbeth character when she seems when the only thing we know about her is how much she likes wallpaper. I mean it's just serious. It's just difficult to then transmute onto a picture of a person who has any suit of ideology or intellectual ambition. Even she just seems. I think his it all pictures quite a trivial one. And i don't think that is sexist. I think anybody who had this much about their sofa. I would take the same view of the. I just ha. That would be my question. When i boris johnson casimir by so from whether or not it camouflages the paper. I mean he you know he's he's feckless bus and i don't think he really i don't think he really cares about interiors so is must be coming from somewhere. It's not coming from. Harry newman and renew and i think appropriate. We'll we'll wrap up there but thank you on that nothing about about about camouflage lifers. We'll we'll leave it there as we williams and sunny say to. Thanks very much for joining me. Thank you for more on the conservatives. Latest image issue. Make sure to listen to tomorrow's episode of apart cost today in focus. When rachel humphries will be joined by rafael back and look at the bat wherever you get your costs after the break we asked how political leaders in europe are responding to local precious to welcome tourists this summer. We'll be right back. Welcome back to politics wiki. I just gal guts. Now's things stand. Brits eager for a sunny holiday abroad will have to wait until the seventeenth of may when restrictions on international travel get lifted. Meanwhile the continent southern european countries heavily rely on tourism for their economies a trailing ways to welcome tourists back. You're right and not the case no longer. Part of the new will be seen as a priority all political correspondent piece of walker spec to john henley the guard in europe correspondent and had an smith the guardians greece cyprus and turkey correspondent helena festival. I mean you in greece. Greece's of seattle very very heavily tourist dependent place how things in general with covert and you think. The greek ready desperate against tourist back well. Greece certainly has had a better pandemic. The most other countries in europe cases of corona virus and covid nineteen deaths are significantly lower than other parts of the continent although greece like so many other countries also struggled to suppress a third wave of the pandemic in recent months infection rates have been stopping the high but epidemiologist now saying this week that transmissibility rates to speak all coming down that seeing the first signs of the country turning a corner which is a good thing given that the government is equally gracing for tourism and has set this milestone date of may fourteenth for the opening of the country to tourists. And of course. I should say that on the vaccination front over two point eight million vaccines have been administered to date. Almost a quarter of the entire adult population have received at least one jab and there is some talk that frontline workers in the tourism industry people will in restaurants hotels will be given a priority place in that vaccine rive in the coming weeks and the greek of is reasonably opened the idea of overseas visitors coming in if they can prove had a vaccination factor. Is that correct. That's absolutely right. Anybody who is in possession over vaccination safe all has a negative carpet or antigen tests is welcome into the country and the government is making a very big thing of that. Given that greece's so heavily. Reliant on tourism much like cyprus indeed turkey and both cyprus and turkey this week have gone back into lockdown precisely because the two countries on depending so heavily on tourism returning and bookings are ready coming in so they want to be ready. Certainly by the end of may for risk to staunch arrive arriving okay. Brilliant so john. I mean for some of the bigger countries. I mean you're in paris with still kind of locked on going on. I mean fronts. And germany have seen advises covid cases and as he's been anti lockdown protest and things like that i mean it potentially might be more tricky situation with them to welcome tourists. Who are these discussions taking place now. Yeah i mean it is a big. It's a big issue. in france. Obviously also not. Not as reliant you. Know percentage wise in its economy as countries like or spain or portugal and france is particularly keen to welcome back for example. American tourists high-spending american tourists. That's less of a priority for the southern european countries simply because they don't receive quite so many but there is an ongoing debate about this within the eu and part of the problem is of course that countries control their own frontiers and the e. You can try and coordinate the approach across the whole block but at the end of the day countries are going to follow their own best interests so france has begun trialing for example. A kind of a covid pulse away. Nobody in the u likes to call it a pass or possible mainly mainly because of fears that you know that basically would be discriminatry to people who haven't certain haven't been offered a job yet. The european scheme which the commission hopes to get launched by twenty on the twenty-first of june is supposed to be kind of like a common framework really. That will integrate all these different national certification schemes. Okay to go back to cypress and greece helena. this is kind of warri. Maybe amongst some kind of more tourism. Reliant southern states that you might get is kind of stitch-up of the kind of big countries who decided on this unified way. That curved kind of possible should should work is great confidence. It can politics on course if necessary. Greece has as we said earlier. Champion the idea of vaccination. Possible as john said it's initially faced when it i propose this idea back in january a lot of skepticism from fellow e member states fearing that it would be discriminatory in some way. Rhonda the government center right. Government has in no way suggested that a vaccine certificate will be needed in any part of the country and this also applies to cyprus to for example to joe restaurants over the banner or a bar that i think would offend libertarian. Says they know that that would be a line. They just no no government would be able to explain or indeed folks. I think i think the greek police force would would run away with from idea of having to enforce such a thing so that's never been suggested greece. Yes has has been very aggressive in plotting away out this crisis through tourism one in five. Greeks works in the industry in the tourist industry. Which accounts for more than twenty percent of national income so it's a huge demographic and the center is obviously being hammered. Lost seventy five cents off its turnover last year and the government. This year is very much hoping to recoup say fifty percent of cree covid earnings in two thousand nineteen so yes. It has focused very much on pushing the idea of vaccine possible and then it is also pursued host of bilateral travel arrangements with other countries from the us to israel indeed in february under a deal reached with israel anybody in possession of a copy nineteen vaccination certificate. Could travel unimpeded to greece. I they would not upon arrival have to go into self imposed quarantine but it should be said. Perhaps this is indicative. Koshen that we will be saying only seven. Hundred israelis took up the offer of quarantine free travel using a vaccination certificate over easter when the government opened up the country in a first to tourists from israel. So they're still not a now that i shouldn't forget to add that greece also made very big thing of funny vaccinating populations on remote islands owned lands and islands with smaller populations of lesser. Say fifteen thousand and stunned. That's also in the hope of luring tourists to copied free. I lands in the aegean and then slow of issue have britain which is obviously no longer and you member has got a kind of good vaccination at the moment i mean currently. We should here at some point next month. Both won't government plans are for vaccination passports in terms of travel that likely to take place. But also the government's gonna announced this kind of traffic light system red or amber in green countries. The british people can go to which is in terms of what kind of quarantine if any need to take part once you come back to the uk. John i mean how much of a role is britain playing in britain sense of tourists into your every year and also receives a reasonable number of tourists. Is it made any more difficult than the fact. That britain kind of deciding Totally now or is just the high vaccination rate in the uk almost making these considerations lightly. Easier i mean it is a complicated situation i think we we saw that this week when a slip on the lion. The commission president told the new york times in an interview that the e u was kind of in advanced talks with the us for welcoming american tourists. But kind of pointedly said that you know no such talks were underway. At the moment with britain and i think there is a bit of a brexit fallout from this mutual. Trust really. isn't that high. Certainly of course. The british vaccination program has been successful. It's also the case that the european rollout is finally seriously beginning to pick up speed. I mean really quite quite substantially now and the european commission has repeatedly said that they will be in effect in. They seem to be on track for that. At the moment for seventy percent of the us adult population to be fully vaccinate to say with both doses by mid july. But i think at the end of the day base essentially what seems to be happening. Is that the uk is running into the sort of the same kind of supply difficulties in the second quarter of the that the e you had in the first coach the air and it seems likely that. Come the summer you know. There's going to be not much of a gap between the two but no of course. British tourists particularly in countries like france and spain. Portugal greece are desperate. I mean i have to say. I think if the british government is planning on allowing foreign travel from. I think it's may the seventeenth if we don't have details yet of what the travels ticket might look like and how it's being organized than i think. There's a degree of skepticism. About how you know how it might actually work in practice. But there's no doubt about about the desire of the tourism sector on the continent to be able to welcome british tourists again. That's all we have. Uk government is currently saying that they will provide details in early may but early may slightly moveable feasts so with waiting to be too so one final question to both of you. Kind of put you on the spot. Do you both think that the kind of countries you live in will get of tourists and a you yourself going to be pending any foreign trips me. I'm not personally booking thing. I'm going to wait and see what goes on. I'm resigned to the fact that my older see might be in whatever's left in the uk trying to be much helena. I mean what you think. What's your prediction. Well yes i think. Greece will certainly have a better tourist season than it did last year. I mean for status. It's opening up earlier than it did last year. And i don't think i said but restaurants and cafes will be open alfresco next week. So there is a general sense of this landmark. Made fourteen stay nearing and almost a sense of excitement around that in in the plaza district beneath the acropolis restaurants Getting ready for the moment but officials themselves are saying that it would be very surprising if they surpass fifty percent owning arrivals of two thousand and nineteen prior to covid nineteen in terms. My own travel plan. I like to get to an island this year. I didn't get to an island last year. But much of that will depend on bookings. I am hearing that some of the more popular islands. Aw already book. Talk as of june so awhile people should stop looking into whether they want to get sooner rather than later but it you know a lot of people will this year. The last year despite the prospect of many of the smaller islands as i mentioned being so-called copied free fully vaccinated in terms of local populations will once again be heading into mainland greece because of the venus the a lot of those journeys induce being on a boat on a ferry for eight to ten hours of my very vote. A lot of people may not fancy that at this stage of the pandemic. I'm john you live in one of the most touristed city in the world parents. It's one of the most tourists citizen. It's certainly the most touristed country the world from so so you expecting influx. I think i think the short answer is an awful lot will depend on what happens in the next month or so looking at the infection curves in france and germany and the netherlands and belgium. I mean i think the numbers really need to start coming down fairly significantly fairly sharply for france to have a tourist season that resembles anything. Like what they what they were as helena setback in in two thousand and nineteen. But that said i think there's a real determination certainly on the part of governments and on the part of the commission in brussels to make sure that at least within the schengen that the possible free schengen area this pretty much free movement and we can have as what what terry britten the the commissioner in charge of the vaccine procurement for the eu guys called on several occasions now and almost normal tourist season fingers crossed invade. Helena smith and athens john henley in paris. Thank you very much. Thank you pizza. Walker speaking to hedonist smith. And that's all from us this week. Make sure to listen to friday's episode of politics weekly extra as jonathan free linden robert rice dissect what has been a fast paced first one hundred days in office the president biden but for now i want to thank our guests on your soda so williams peter walker john henry and helena smith the producers yelling fan. I'm jessica l. Got please look after yourself. And thanks for listening for more great podcasts. From the guardian. Just go to the guardian dot com slash podcasts.

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Why U.S. Bombs Are Falling in Yemen

The Daily

27:20 min | 2 years ago

Why U.S. Bombs Are Falling in Yemen

"From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barr. This is the day. Today. The killing of jamarcus Oji has reignited criticism of the Saudi kingdom more broadly, including its role in the war in Yemen. A war that has become the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. And war that the United States has back from the beginning. It's tuesday. November twenty. In the middle of September. I arrived in the town of Diane, which is in the far northwest of Yemen. It's a farming towns, very simple place, and we arrived there early in the morning and the main street of this town is not paved it's just a dirt road, essentially. And soon after we arrived in the town. I saw that on the side of the road was big crater. It was marked out with wooden sticks and red tape, and after we get out of the car and walked around I discovered they were people doing a little parade which was to commemoration of what had happened there six weeks earlier, and what had happened there. This was where a bomb had struck a school bus full of children in August, killing almost everyone on board the forty four children killed and ten adults and just over a low stone wall was the wreckage of the school bus, which was twisted into an almost unrecognizable mass of of black metal. Just beyond the crater where the bomb had struck was written in color on wall in both English and Arabic. America kills Yemeni. Children. And this is something you find all over Yemen that when there's a major air strike there will be bomb fragments found, and usually they have serial numbers or other markings that them and in this case the markings made clear that it was an American made bomb. What is US missile doing in Yemen? The answered about is a little complicated Robert worth has been covering Yemen for the times magazine ever since these Lana Krebs Lucien may nineteen Seventy-nine. You've had two big forces fighting for power in the region. The end of arounds monarchy came early today when Khomeini's followers took control of the palace of the Shah, you have your Ron which is trying to spread its revolutionary form of Shiite Islam on the one hand and already. There are signs of how movement is seeking to exert its power and its great enemy Saudi Arabia, which is spreading its hard line cine version of Islam new schools and universities were built to produce. More clerics to help spread the word east to forces have been clashing ever since then and caught in between them is the group that related be known as the fees. They live right up against the Saudi border and a mountainous area. They are neither Zuni nor Shia, but they are classed in with the Shia and the Saudis fearing that the who 'this pose a threat to them because they see them as potentially siding with Iran. Start to step up their efforts to promote their own Saudi version of Islam in that area. In other words to neutralize this potential threat, and instead of winning the people in that area over it has the opposite effect, it angers the people there who see this as an assault on their identity on their religion. And so they start to push back that grows and grows over the years, and eventually militarize is. And my recollection was also that Saudi Arabia is at this point an ally of the us. That's correct. And so the who these early on in their history. Adopt the slogan that you see all over Yemen, which they call their star how or shout. God is great death to America death to Israel courses on the Jews victory to Islam. We sort of take the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia as kind of a given. But why exactly is the US allied with Saudi Arabia, which seems to be a major factor in all this? The United States has a long and very important relationship with Saudi Arabia, which of course, it's been the greatest supplier of oil from the Middle East, and because of that relationship one of its elements is that we supply weapons to the Saudis have been many many major major weapons deals with the Saudis. We also provide a kind of security umbrella for them in the region. We are seen as the backers of Saudi Arabia by everybody in that region. And another reason that the United States and the Saudis get along. Well, and have for a long time is that the United States also considers Iran, a major threat in the region ever since he's Lama revolution. And especially the hostage crisis that took place shortly afterward. So there's a big area of Greenland. In terms of Iran being this great threat in the region. So what comes of the who these after the Iranian revolution? So they arose as a resistance movement against Saudi influence in Yemen. And then by the early two thousands. The Yemeni government starts to see them as a threat. And so there's a series of wars between the Yemeni government and the who these instead of crushing the who these these wars actually make them stronger because they gained battlefield experience. They get a hold of a lot of weapons because the military's very incompetent and corrupt. And they also forge important alliances. Because this war ends up hurting a lot of other people who sympathized with who these and join forces with them, then comes two thousand eleven. Fox News alert and breaking news out of northern Africa. Where violent protests have been spiraling out of control into nesia. What happened in Tunisia is proving to be a catalyst for uprisings in other parts of the Muslim world were grievance churns beneath the surface, the Arab spring, which of course, was a democracy movement. The mood of anger has spread to a growing list of countries. Demonstrations in Algiers, Jordan, Iran, and Yemen. In yemen. The Arab spring leads to a state of chaos huge numbers of unemployed youth, a lack of opportunities and rising poverty. Inspired young protesters to flood the streets of cities throughout Yemen. Do you have multiple armed factions competing for power punching further into chaos after rebels took over the presidential headquarters today, the rebel continued to gain ground in the capital city. But keep in mind that the who these are not fighting for democracy. They are militia that is fighting for power now autumn control, and I'll taking revenge on their tribal enemies by destroying properties. And army commander refers to the takeover as a coup and says rebel are taking weapon. Thought. And the who these essentially come out on top. At that point Iran season opportunity by siding with the who these they can strike a blow against their enemy in a way, that's cheap and easy. So Iran season unity to go after Saudi Arabia by taking on the cause of the hood, the old enemy of my enemy is my friend. Exactly. And so it's right around that time that Iran start supplying weapons and aid. And that raises all kinds of alarms after all. It's been decades that the Saudis were worried that the who these would become an ally of Iran will now it has happened and they're starting to fire missiles into Saudi Arabia the nightmare for the Saudis. The Saudis are obviously very upset about this. Now at the same time. This is happening. There's a transition taking place in Saudi Arabia power shifts in the Middle East and Saudi Arabia. It was the death of ninety year old King, Abdullah, his more conservative brother Solomon has already ascended to the throne and the new king has son. His name is Muhammad bin Salman four year old Muhammad key positions of defense minister and head of the Royal cooled replace these young he's ambitious and he wants to make a Mark and one of the ways he wants to do that is by striking blow against Iran. Prince Mohammad bin Salman who regards Iran as the main threat in this region and believes that Iran must be tackled and tackled now the question is how do you do it and Saudi Arabia's? So he organizes a coalition of allied states to launch a war against the who these in Yemen, and they seek and they gain American backing for this President Obama authorized, logistical and intelligence support State Department officials say the US feeding delivery of weapons and increasing intelligence sharing with Saudi Arabia in why Robert exactly does the United States sign off on this. Why would it want to be so closely or at all socio with this first of all the Americans of the Saudis do share a common enemy? They're both anxious about Iran, and it's a fact that who these are getting aid from the Ron so to some extent the Americans are on board with the idea, but the US was in the middle of negotiating the Iran nuclear. He'll today after two years of negotiations. The United States together were international partners has cheap something. The decades of animosity has not a comprehensive long-term deal with the run that will prevent it from obtaining a nuclear weapon, and the Saudis were very upset about this deal. They were worried about the consequences the Americans needed to keep the Saudis onside they didn't want to upset them too much. And so they felt they needed to do something to play the Saudis, so the Americans agreed to support the Saudi war in Yemen. And the war is launched in March two thousand fifteen and in fact, the war is announced officially in Washington. There was a horrifying attack today in an airstrike. In the north reportedly killed at least fifty more than half of them children. So the Saudis unleash a massive and often indiscriminate campaign of things. Now hospital any Yemen run that by the charity? Don't without borders has been hit by Saudi led coalition airstrikes as a school bus bombed in crowded market was left utterly destroyed on Saturday, a similar strike hit the school post offices universities. Everything's getting hit deadly airstrikes killing dozens and Yemen's people were killed and dozens more injured than thirty people have been killed and fifty people have eighty to one hundred. Forty people were killed with Saudi Arabia has denied carrying out any airstrikes in the area at the time instead blaming the attack on who's he rebels. It's pretty horrific. What is happening and effect has been one of the worst humanitarian crises of our time. The hundreds of thousands of displaced people in Yemen struggling to survive in comes without basic, health supplies and sanitation, more than two million have been forced to leave their homes since the war began three and a half years ago Yemenis who've lost their homes in the civil war on the reach of even the most basic relief that groups can prevent people don't have enough food. They don't have enough water. The UN's humanitarian chief is warning of the worst famine in the world has seen in decades unless the Saudi led coalition allows aid into Yemen. The United Nations has warned that the number of those at risk of famine could rise the twelve million some eight point five million people. There are already on the brink of starvation. You go into any hospital in Yemen. And you see just nightmarish scenes of people. Waiting around outside. There's no room the aren't enough doctors. International committee for the Red Cross says the number of specked cholera cases in Yemen has reached a million the disease continues to spread in what the UN has called the world's worst cholera outright. Everywhere. You look you see women holding sick and emaciated children. As I was driving back from Sada on the far northwest of the Yemeni capital. We stopped at one point by broken bridge. And his flock of women came out clutching babies, and one of them was woman who peer to been living underneath the twist piece of what looked like shrapnel. It was probably hundred grease out under a baking sun, and she was clutching a few children, and they literally seem to be living under this piece of metal. And I just was I made thing, you know, how do you live in desert like that with no water, you've got nothing to live on and you're taking shelter under a piece of shrapnel and then knocking on the windows of any cars that passes. It's it's just a haunting image. We'll be right back. Imagine our world is century ago. Most transport was still limited to horses in steam engines today jets move us and our goods at nearly the speed of sound now shell is imagining where the world could go next. It's a cleaner future where low and no carbon technologies. Help us move ourselves and our stuff with zero net. Emissions to learn more about shells skysufer area, visit NY times dot com slash shell. So Robert, I asked you at the beginning of our conversation. How it could be that an American made missile took out. That's cool. Bus and killed all those children in Yemen. And it seems like the answer is that we have a long standing strategic alliance with Saudi Arabia and part of that alliance means we sell them missiles that they decided to drop on you Many's in a war that we support. So it makes sense that there's real anger towards the. S and that people would write on that wall. America kills many children. That's right, there really are American bombs falling and the longer they continue to fall a longer. People continue to go through the rubble and find parts with American serial numbers on them the worst that anger will be. But as for the who these you have to remember, they are not the good guys in this war. They also were guilty of torture of disappearances of extralegal executions, they at this point or operating almost purely military basis. It's not clear what their vision is for the future par from self-preservation. And what is the view of this war at this point by the US, Donald J Trump arriving in Saudi Arabia for his first foreign trip as president. This is an American. I never before has a president set foot on Saudi soil for his first trip abroad. But first of all after Trump came into office. He seemed to double down on American support for this war yesterday. President Trump signed a one. Hundred ten billion dollar ours. The green light to continue to have essentially a proxy war. The United States hoping the Saudis and others essentially fighting Iran inside Yemen. The and he makes very clear that he used Mohammed bin soman favored son in the region. Thank you very much everybody. It's a great honor to have the crown prince with US Saudi Arabia's been a very great friend and a big purchaser of equipment and lots of other things. His view of the Middle East is very much shaped by the Saudis, and he seems to give the Saudis almost carte blanche to do whatever they want. I am announcing today that the United States will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal. There is no indication that Trump wanted to be critical of the Saudi war in Yemen until about two months ago. The State Department is looking into accusations that Saudi Arabia was involved in the alleged murder of a prominent Saudi journalist Jamal hug show G disappeared last week in Turkey as the Turks. Let out bits and pieces of information about the murder dribs and drabs Turkey's president says his country is studying CCTV footage taken at the consulate and airport. Turkey says it has given audio recordings of the journalist killing to the United States and other western countries. People began to suspect that Mohammed bin Salman or great friend in the region himself ordered this brutal killing suspicion has fallen on Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammad bin Salman, we know that the international community has no trust in the Solbes coming clean with what happened from both sides of the Clinton orders must have come from the talk and that began to shine a spotlight for the first time on who is this guy is he really the great reformer. We've been seeing him as it is. That the war in Yemen now is gaining renewed. Attention and question marks are being raced over US Audi partnership, and of course, that led to questions of what is he doing in Yemen? This policy of Saudi Arabia of inflicting massive civilian casualty and suffering four. What voices that had been critical of the Saudi were number over liquor longtime start to get heard people are dying every minute in Yemen are silence, and our inaction means that we are complicit people in congress are speaking up and in the cabinet secretary Pompeo went to Jerry Mattis, also call for ceasefire fell longer term solution by longer term. I mean, thirty days from now, we wanna see everybody around peach table based on a ceasefire that will permit the special on boy to get them together in Sweden and end this war that. Of the answer. There's kind of accumulation of criticism and of public calls for something to finally change in this war. Even as members of the Trump administration begin grappling with whether or not we should still be involved in this war. I'm remembering that this whole operation started as an effort by both the Saudis and the US to try to contain the influence of our mutual enemy Iran, and I wonder to what extend the Trump administration and the Saudis still see it that way as really about Iran or has it become about something totally different. At this point. I think for the Saudis and their allies ruins very much a war against Iran. That is always been there concern the United States. Of course, shares that concern. But I think the question is is this war in Yemen and affective way to push back against Iran. And is it, you know, I think the Obama administration had doubts bent that from the very beginning. The Trump administration was more inclined to trust the Saudis on that. Question. And now, I think you're seeing a return of doubts just because time kept passing the civilian casualties kept piling up. And yet the who these are not weaker if anything they're stronger, and so that just naturally pushes people to ask the question. What are we doing here is this the right way to accomplish our shared goal, which is to push back against Iran? And I think there's a strong feeling among some of the administration, and certainly many outside of it. This is not the way to do it when you're in Yemen outside of the areas of control, it's often kind of lawless soem with multiple different factions fighting each other, but inside the the areas there is this generally of feeling of unity that they're all together in this struggle. On September twenty first I was in sun out of capital, there is you very triumphal parade. Which lots and lots of major who figures participated, and there was music marching. Everybody grabbing their AK47. resting in the air chanting. These feel empowered by this war, which exactly opposite of what the Saudi coalition had been hoping for. And not only that on this same day there were similar processions. Elsewhere going on around the world because it was sure which is a big Shiite holiday, and what you heard from clerics and even from some battlefield commander types. Iraq and Lebanon was tremendous sympathy with who the cause of feeling that these guys were victims of a terrible Saudi war. They were the oppressed. And we sympathize with them, you know, our hearts are with them. We're willing to go and find their side, which has like the definition of a mission that has backfired for the US in Saudi Arabia. I think that's true. I think far from crushing the who as the Saudi coalition must have hoped. This has in some way empowered the made them feel that they're caused Justin that they have friends and allies all over the place. It's really intriguing to me Robert that after all these years of death in Yemen that would feels like a pivot point here is the murder of single, man. Not even in Yemen. But in Turkey by Saudi Arabia that is starting to feel like a turning point. What do you make of that? I think it highlights the way that it's not institutions that matter in these countries, but people so much depends on the person who runs this country, and what that vision is how they operate. And if suddenly something happens, the cats new light on who that person is it really can make an enormous difference. In terms of how we see that person. And how we see everything they're doing. I think a lot of people feel that there's something incredibly strange about this scenario where you have drama playing out day by day having to do with the death of single person journalist and yet so much turn so many. Lives term on that one murder. I think for most people in the region, they're willing to take anything as long as there's a way to look more closely. What's happening and ask easy worth it? So what's changed is nothing in the geopolitics of all this? What's changed is that the murder of democracy has changed? Global perceptions and most importantly American perceptions of Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammad bin Salman, I think that's right. You know, two people really decide all of this one of them is Trump and one of them is Mohammed bin Salman. I think certainly Trump has the power to really push Mohammed bin soman on this. But it's very hard to know how much pressure he's going to exert. And I think what he wants. It's pretty clear as to avoid all of this. He likes philmont he would like to keep supporting him. If you could go back to businesses usual he would. And so the question really is. Are there going to be circumstances where he's going to have to push 'em Bs to take action? So really the fate of this war and the people of Yemen are up to two men don't Trump and Mohammed bin Salman. But really it's up to President Trump. I think that's true. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thank you. On friday. The times reported that the CIA has reached the conclusion that Mohammed bin Salman himself ordered the murder of Jamal kashogi. But in an interview with Fox News Chris Wallace on Sunday. President Trump suggested he still believes the crown prince's denials question did NBS lie to use her. I don't I don't know, you know, who can really know. But I can say this. He's got many people. Now that say he had no knowledge what if the crown prince speaking to you, the president of the United States directly lied to you? He told me that he had nothing to do with it. He told me that I would say maybe five times at different points as recently as a few days ago. Do you just live with it because you need them? Well, we'll anybody really know. All right. We'll anybody really know. That's it for the daily. I'm michael. See tomorrow. Ever lanes time. The central's for men and women are ethically. Made designed to last from materials to labor ever lane reveals the true cost behind all of their clothing. You know, exactly what you're paying for. And why and because sells directly to you ever lanes. Prices are thirty to fifty percent lower than their competitors checkout lanes newest arrivals online now listeners to the daily podcast get free shipping when you go to ever lane dot com slash the daily that's ever lane dot com slash the daily.

Saudi Arabia Yemen Iran United States President Trump prince Mohammad bin Salman president murder Robert Middle East America Mohammed Saudi coalition Trump New York Times Turkey Ron commander State Department
RedEchosactivity in Indias power grid is described. US report on Khashoggi murder declassified  SolarWinds compromise inquiry updates. Ill-intentioned SEO. Presidents Cup winner announced.

The CyberWire

22:17 min | 3 months ago

RedEchosactivity in Indias power grid is described. US report on Khashoggi murder declassified SolarWinds compromise inquiry updates. Ill-intentioned SEO. Presidents Cup winner announced.

"If you're interested in space and communications such as technology policy business and operations take a look at the cosmic. Es signals in space produced in partnership with the cyber wire signals in space offers a monthly overview of news in this sector check it out at cosmic a es dot com slash tech dash news. That's cosmic a es dot com slash tech hyphen news funding for this cyber wire. Podcast is made possible in. Part by duo. Wild remote work has been on the rise for years now. The recent rapid expansion of work from home culture presents new security challenges. It's duos mission to make application access more secure for organizations of all sizes duos modern access security designed to safeguard all users devices and applications. So you can stay focused on what you do. Best give your organization the peace of mind that only complete device visibility can bring visit duo dot se slash cyber wire to sign up for a free thirty day trial and we thank duo for sponsoring our show reports of chinese cyber engagement with indian critical infrastructure. The us government declassified. Its report on the murder of saudi journalists. Jamal khashoggi the solar wind supply chain. Compromise remains under investigation with an intern. Making a special appearance. Maligned search engine optimizations recaptured table. Opinions on google cloud josh ray from accenture on cybercrime and the cloud and congratulations to the winners of cicis presidents cup from the cyber wire studios at data tribe. I'm dave bittner with your cyber wire. Summary for monday march first twenty twenty one threat intelligence firm recorded futures insect group reports that apparent chinese cyber sabotage group. They're tracking as red. Echo has been active against india's infrastructure read echo is a new name because despite some apparent links to other chinese ap. Tease identification remains unclear. The group may have been staging potential attacks with a view to holding india's electrical power grid at risk recorded future puts it this way quote potential pre-positioning of network access to support chinese strategic objectives with some attendant speculation about signaling support of influence operations or as a precursor to connecticut galatian. They go on to say quote since early. Two thousand twenty recorded futures insect group observed a large increase in suspected targeted intrusion activity against indian organizations from chinese state sponsored groups from mid twenty twenty onwards recorded futures. Mid point collection revealed a steep rise in the use infrastructure tracked as axiomatic tot- which encompasses shadow pad command and control servers to target a large swath of india's power sector ten distinct indian power sector organisations including four of the five regional load despatch centres responsible for operation of the power grid through balancing electricity supply and demand have been identified as targets a concerted campaign against india's critical infrastructure other targets identified included to indian seaports and quote recorded. Future does say it expects further such activity as long as sino indian. Tensions remained high. But it's worth noting that recorded futures conclusions are more tentative than those reached by the new york times and various media outlets in india and the report should be received in the spirit of relative circumspection in which the researchers seem to have offered it that cyber sabotage of power grid would have great potential for disruption is clear as control global points out one need look no further than the consequences of the texas ice storms last month to see the possibilities. Whatever happened in india. The incident would seem to point out the difficulties in deterrence and signaling in cyberspace if indeed the staging represents an attempt on beijing's part to signal to india. Its power grid is at risk for example that signaling would seem to have come at the cost of blowing the means of access to that grid the us government late. Friday released a long intimidated intelligence report on the murder of saudi journalists jamal kashogi declassified by the director of national intelligence the reports executive summary is direct and succinct quote. We assess saudi arabia's crown prince mohammed bin salman approved an operation in istanbul turkey to capture or kill saudi journalists. Jamal khashoggi we base this assessment on the crown prince's control of decision making in the kingdom the direct involvement of a key adviser and members of muhammad bin salman protective detail in the operation and the crown prince's support for using violent measures to silence dissidents abroad including kashogi. Two thousand seventeen. The crown prince has had absolute control of the kingdom security and intelligence organizations making it highly unlikely that saudi officials would have carried out an operation of this nature without the crown prince's authorization and quote as one would expect the report frames its conclusions largely in terms of a priori probability and takes care not to reveal intelligence sources and methods but it was widely believed at the time that us intelligence services had collected signals and cyber intelligence that pointed to the direct involvement of saudi intelligence services in the murder the washington post reports that the biden administration will not impose direct sales on the saudi crown. Prince secretary of state antony blinken said at a news conference that quote. The relationship with saudi arabia is bigger than any one individual and quote and that appears to be the way the administration stands with the crown prince. At least even as it discusses a recalibration that's recalibration not as the state department stresses a rupture of relations with the kingdom of saudi arabia. According to politico the state department did impose more than seventy visa restrictions on other persons involved in the killing and the treasury department announced sanctions against the former deputy head of saudi intelligence services and on members of the group deemed responsible for khashoggi's murder. The white house is facing some pressure from congressional democrats in particular the washington post reports to take more direct action against crown prince mohammed bin salman the effects of the solar wind supply chain compromise continue to spread through. Us government agencies wired writes that the metaphorical body count now includes nasa and the faa. So how did all this happen. In the first place. Investigation continues and current and former solar winds executives are blaming an intern for setting up the now famous bad password solar winds one-two-three which cnn reports was out loose on the internet for several years before it was detected. It's bad password but that finding a password would have been sufficient to give the sort of access necessary to the whole shebang of a major supply chain. Compromise seem surprising still bad password and apparently some week supervision of that intern so describes the goutte loader infection framework which is not only expanding its payloads but using a novel approach to search engine optimization to bring its criminal bait to the attention of potential victims the payloads currently being served up by goot loader include the goutte kit banking trojan kronos cobalt strike and are evil rent somewhere and finally late friday the us cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency announced the winner of its presidents cup. Cybersecurity competition congratulations to the cyberspace capability engineers from the seven hundred eightieth military intelligence brigade. Who took this year's honours and now a word from our sponsor extra hob securing modern business with cloud native network detection and response. The massive shift to remote work has turned the reality of work on its head. With cloud and multi cloud adoption comprehensive. Visibility is more important than ever but in order to protect your business you need more than unified visibility. You need intelligence response. Workflows so teams can collaborate easily and act quickly. Extra helps organizations like wizards of the coast tech threats up to ninety five percent faster as john kreese senior. It engineer puts it quote. Extra hop is helping us accelerate cloud adoption by ensuring our workloads. Our secure see how it works in the full product demo free and no forms required at extra hop dot com slash cyber. That's extra hop dot com slash cyber and we thank extra for sponsoring our show and join me once again. Is rick howard. He is the cyber wires. Chief security officer also analysts but more important than any of that he is the host of the eso perspectives podcast. Part of cyber wire pro- Rick this week you are concluding a two part miniseries on securing the google cloud platform. And i know you've been talking to our hash table members about gcp. Where do we stand when it comes to folks preferring google cloud over the other. Two big providers like amazon and microsoft. Well you know. Dave you would think that question would be simple to answer you. Well as with all things security and i guess most things in general. It isn't and by the way when i was in the army back when you know muzzle loading muskets were what the cool kids had In one unit we gave momento plaques all the departing soldiers and we gave one to everybody and we put these engraved. Words in latin heritage. You're ready knee hill fox s in roughly translated. Nothing is easy right and that's sort of so upbeat you know. It wasn't a great you know. What could i say okay. So that's the case when we're trying to decide How where do we want ploy workloads into the cloud in to a person. All the cyber wires hash table members were intrigued. By the way google had implemented zero trust there are beyond core architecture but the only member that is actually trying. It is my old friend bob. Turner the cease over the university of wisconsin at madison. So are they all in their putting their the crown. Jewel workloads into Gcp or are they just doing a little dabbling. I would split the difference there k. Baba's have is crown jewels in there because like most of the other hash table members. He's using aws for workloads and office. Three sixty five for email and you know other things but he got the opportunity to play with. Jesus p when his university joined a group research project with other universities. And that project is using. Gcp so in this episode we talked about what he likes and dislikes about the google cloud environment and the journey. His university went on to get there. But if you're looking for the more compelling reason to listen to this episode. You're you're gonna wanna listen to bob's midwestern sense of humor because he defined some new words from me that i'd never heard of i'm gonna give you three. Go on. Conditions of weirdness or cow for short. Let that sink in eric. Yes he's from. Wisconsin the dairy capital of the world. So that's where that comes from cyber shenanigans. Which i really like. But my new favorites security phrase of all time is cyber cow tipping. Yes that's the thing and to find out what it means to. We'll have to Check out the latest episode of see us oh perspectives. It's part of cyber wire pro. You could find it on our website. Cyber wire dot com rick howard. Thanks for joining us. Thank you sir. And now a message from our sponsor cyber reason if you're a defender fighting to protect your organization from the dark forces of cyber attackers it might seem attackers. Have the advantage to win. They only need to be successful. Once as a cyber defender you must be successful in ending attacks. Every single time cyber reason reverses the attackers advantage. They put the power back in your hands. Their future ready attacked. Platform gives defenders the wisdom to uncover understand and piece together multiple threats and the precision focused to end cyber-attacks instantly on computers mobile devices servers and the cloud. Wherever your organization's data is being threatened cyber reason is ready to win the battle against cyber attacks with you and for you join them. And the world's leading companies together we are the defenders cyber reason end cyber attacks from endpoints to everywhere learn more at cyber reason dot com slash cyber wire and we thank cyber reason for sponsoring our show And i'm pleased to be joined once again by josh ray. He is managing director and also the global cyber defence lead at accenture josh. It's great to have you back. I wanted to touch base with you today about the report that you are recently put out. This is the accenture threat. Intelligence report Specifically some of the areas in that report that are focused on cybercrime and the cloud. What can you share this today. Yeah thanks dave. accenture Saboteur intelligence team actually just completed a two year series. A research where they were really looking at deep dark web activity of actors targeting organizations in the club and might be a big surprise to to your ears but one of the most common ways that actors are actually getting access to cloud environments is through system this configuration and publicly known patched boehner ability. So hygiene comes back again As as much as it does on traditional it infrastructure as it does your cloud state. You know i think the thing that always Gathers attention in the press are when folks leave for example there. Aws buckets Just hanging out there you know open to to everyone to view is that is that sort of an edge case that attracts the most attention. But how how. I guess i'm trying to figure out how prevalent is that. Is that the rare thing that attracts a lot of attention or or is that a an ongoing concern for people i would say. It's an ongoing concern right. I mean you know we've seen actually massive amount of api key and credential theft exploited accounts that have been taken taken over that are being sold access but also insider threats So you know. Actors that are actively peddling access to you know their their corporate infrastructure Unfortunately as well what are some of the specific things that folks need to worry about as they continue this sort of ongoing transition to the cloud. It's a it's a great question. I mean so you know. Obviously the data. That's that stairs is an attractive target especially for ransomware gangs who are looking to extort the victims but we help clients securely migrate to the cloud all the time but what they have to understand that the journey really doesn't end there and once you get there you still have to defend it. You have to treat it as that you know just the other part of your your business. Such you need to look after and this means doing things like patching and ensuring that the native security controls are configured applied correctly. But you know one of the things that we really try to stress is that you can't stop there right. You have to conduct that. Intel driven red team exercises hunts. And you have to have folks that conduct those really proper. I are investigations in the club and dave. I i've seen just a lot of examples where you know. A clients cloud state unfortunately is a visibility blind spot for them so you know one of the things that we're really focused on is making sure that they have that proper logging you nailed but this is also important to include their application security logs right and when they're doing that monitoring they're actually applying the right level of threat intelligence use cases so they can really focus on what's important to the business. How do you help. People manage their threat. Intelligence feeds to keep it from being just set the kind of overwhelming fire hose of information. How how can they dial it in a really great question. I mean properly operationalizing your threat. Intelligence is one of the things that i think a lot of organizations struggle within the first thing that they do is they talk about it as a threat intelligence feed when it should be looked at as really an extension of the capability but it also should be something that you have you know high degree of confidence and trust in. You really wanna think about you know. Understanding strategically exposure is what types of threats are going to try and a target you. What are the that are being employed by those threats. And then how does that trickle down operationally to the right types of security controls and then the right types of tactical. I sees or other type of ability intelligence that you need to To help your operators ply that intelligence you know most effectively so it really have to look at it at different governance levels and can take a very focused requirement driven. Look at what your organization needs to protect itself best against the threats that are going to impact at the most. How about the the cloud providers themselves. I mean are they are. They evolving the way that their own tools work the way. They're interfaces work to try to to help people along with this to make it easier as they learn where the common sort of blind spots are. Yeah i think they are. I mean especially with a lot of the cloud providers that we work with Pretty frequently. I mean look i think every platformer or even private owner is continuing to take active steps and active measures to incorporate the latest greatest. But you know you really have to think about in order to maximize that investment. You really do need to have folks said you know. Understand how to apply that product or platform and those controls in the most operational manner and able to kind of con- continually tweak those controls based on the latest threatened toes. And so it's not just a a one and done type of evolution it's a it's a continuous type of process. That folks have to understand. Is they have to undertake right. Or josh ray. Thanks for joining us. Thank you dave. Thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible. and that's the cyber wire for links tall of today's stories. Check out our daily briefing at the cyber wire dot com and for professionals and cybersecurity leaders. Who want to stay. Abreast of this rapidly evolving field. Sign up for cyber wire pro. It'll save you time and keep you informed a taste of life. Listen for us on your alexa smart speaker to. Don't forget to check out the grumpy. All geeks podcast contribute to a regular segment called security. I joined jason and brian on their show for a lively discussion of the latest security news. Every week you can find grumpy old geeks where all find. Podcasts are listed and check out the recorded future. Podcast which i also host the subject. There is threatened elegance and every week we talked to interesting people about timely cybersecurity topics that's at recorded future dot com slash podcast. The cyber wire podcast is proudly produced in maryland of the startup studios of data tribe with their co building. The next generation of cyber security teams and technologies are amazing. Cyber wire team is elliott peltzman brew. Precaut- chelsea bond. Tim no dr. Joe kerrigan herald. -tario then yellen nick. Valenki gina johnson finished mojo chris russell john patrick jennifer ivan rick. Howard peter kilby. I'm dave bittner. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here tomorrow

india Jamal khashoggi josh ray us government rick howard saudi arabia dave bittner google jamal kashogi mohammed bin salman muhammad bin salman biden administration Prince secretary of state anto saudi intelligence services khashoggi crown prince mohammed bin salm cybersecurity and infrastructu washington post john kreese
Prince on tour: Muhammad bin Salman

The Economist: The Intelligence

19:42 min | 2 years ago

Prince on tour: Muhammad bin Salman

"Hello. And welcome to the intelligence economist radio. I'm your host Jason Palmer every weekday. We provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world. How would you like to dodge a quarter of your taxes every year, that's the fraction of the worldwide tax Bill? It's estimated corporations could be voiding entirely legally, we take a look at where all that money's going and the efforts to keep it where it belongs. And in the run-up to the Academy Awards, we speak to Nadine advocate. The first woman in line to win a feature film. Oscar. But I. Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman is pivoting eastward this week. He's on a tour of Asia. Believe that San gonna be very very important country in the coming, and you want to be sure that part of that with stops in Pakistan, India and China the trip is a strategically important one for the prince he has had a very rocky six months. He's been accused of ordering the murder of dissident journalist, Joel shalt g in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul is father death has rocked relations between the west and Saudi Arabia. So this tour is a way of cleansing away some of the diplomatic opprobrium that is taxed to him in the west to Sean Joshi is our defense editor he is looking for friends who will happen focus on other more harmonious matters in Pakistan. He has a very pliant friend. But also India and China who will not obsess over Saudi Arabia's human rights record and will deal with him on more pragmatic basis, which is to say, they can talk oil. They can talk not just Oriel. Other types of investment regional security counter terrorism with India, particularly keen to get Saudi help on chasing up Pakistani wrongdoers, and they can talk missiles and strategic weapons with China. But in that region there is quite a lot going on. Let's take those sort of destinations one by one. He's already been to Pakistan. What are his ambitions? And what are the issues there? Well, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have historically been extremely close part of it for Pakistan is money. They are being squeezed towards the IMF for a bailout and Saudi Arabia has just agreed twenty billion dollars of investment agreements. Pakistan, also sends troops to Saudi Arabia to train with the Saudis. It has contributed forces to the campaign in Yemen. But of course, Pakistan, also neighbors Iran, which you Saudi Arabia's arch rival, so there's a lot more going on in terms of also containing Iran's influence, so what exactly was he trying to secure in Pakistan, one of the most important projects. He's looking at is. Funding a big oil refinery in the port of guava in Pakistan's Balochistan province, and that's important for a number of reasons right now, it's the centerpiece of China's economic corridor in Pakistan, so he's competing with Beijing. It's very near the Iranian port of Chabahar where India is investing. So he's competing with deady, but more importantly than all of that, Balochistan neighbors Iran, and so he is building a presence right next door to Iranian territory. There have been rumors that Saudi Arabia has funded groups in Balochistan, which is where gutter is located that have conducted attacks inside, Iran. So I think this is likely to be another step in the Saudi campaign to push back at Iran. I suppose I'm wondering why this visit might be so welcome on the part of all of these countries. If what he's doing his tipping into some pretty tricky, local dynamics kind of on all fronts in in every direction. Why isn't he viewed as kind of a destabilizing force? Well, I think the Indians will call. Where he is. Now, they historically might have seen Saudi Arabia as a stabilizing force supporting radical Islamist movements that were causing trouble in places like Kashmir and other parts of India. But in recent years, India has tried to reset its relationship with Saudi Arabia. It wants Saudi investment and it wants to coke Saudi Arabia away from Pakistan and officials in New Delhi or still reeling from last week's terror attack in Indian-administered Kashmir, which it blamed on Pakistan. Isn't that sort of complicating the dynamics I think it probably is. I think that India is focused on this terrible attack that took place the worst attack in Kashmir in decades, and this profound anger in India and desire among many people to take some sort of retaliatory military action now Mohammed bin Salman presence in Pakistan, first of all and then his visit to India has complicated that for the Indians. But I think what they will be doing is using the opportunity to try and say to him look, we know your close to package. Stan we know you'll building a relationship, but we are a bigger more important country. Don't you want to work with us and try and put pressure on the Pakistanis to end their support of terrorism? So quite the opposite. Then of everyone trying to shun him everyone instead wants his ear quite badly. I think that's right. I think that for the Chinese as well where he will be heading after India China will think well, here's an American ally. If we can give him weapons advanced technology, perhaps build economic ties his an opportunity to try and peel away another American ally and win one over the Americans. Do you suppose that this tour will accomplish its goal of kind of shaking off the shadow of the Jamaica Shoji affair, I think it will show the west that Saudi Arabia has other partners, and that will probably push some people to say, look, we can't stop talking about kashogi. But we have to be aware that Saudi Arabia is an important partner. Indeed, only in the last week British. Officials have been complaining that German arms export ban on Saudi Arabia has grounded its fleet of typhoon fighter jets. So people already worried that some of the pressure on Saudi Arabia is resulting in lost commercial opportunities and the more. He can show that he has friends in other parts of the world, even potential suppliers of arms, the more. He will be able to say to the west you better talk to me at some point. Because if not I will find other people to speak with and I'm also intimately involved in all of these other sort of cross border conflicts that you you might need my help with. We'll absolutely. And I think the biggest of all and the biggest prize here is the peace. Talks over ghanistan Saudi Arabia has had a relationship with Afghanistan's Pakistan is central to the process of the peace talks. And so if the west feels that Saudi Arabia could play an important role in cajoling Pakistan to push the Taliban to the table if it could coax the insurgent directly to the table then. That may be one more step on the road to rehabilitation for no had been solo. She, sean. Thank you very much for joining us. You'll very welcome. In seventeenth, century, Jamaica, English and Dutch privateers lost their contracts to plunder attacking Spanish ships. So they turned to another form of piracy they became full on pirates, and they continue to use Jamaica as their main base and that ended a reputation for debauchery Jamaica still has something of a piracy problem. But today's buccaneers art sailing, the high seas Jamaica faces problems like many countries do with corporate tax avoidance the pirates. These days are not on Jamaica itself, but based in tax havens, some of them not too far away from the island. Corporate tax avoidance is on the rise and developing countries such as Jamaica suffered disproportionately by some estimates tax authorities around the world lose between one hundred billion and two hundred forty billion dollars a year. And it's all legal if a bit convoluted our special assignments, editor Mathew Valencia has been looking into how big corporations navigate the choppy waters of the global tax system, as you tell tell me the scale of this problem. The problem is big and growing the CD estimates revenue losses around the world from corporate tax avoidance up to two hundred forty billion dollars. The IMF had a study a couple of years ago, which put the number two round while at a potentially over six hundred billion dollars, which is criminals about cortra- corporate tax receipts willed wide, right? And which are the countries one of the kinds of countries that are kind of losing out the most I mean, most countries suffered to some extent or other rich. Are we CD countries? They've complained for years about about leakage corporate tax leakage, the euro. Paeans of being complaining for years about problems that they've had with companies from elsewhere, including internet digital companies from America and other parts of the world. But it's lower middle income countries developing countries, which are hit the hardest whiter while there are a number of reasons first of all those countries where there's a lot of production, increasing manufacturing, and you have profits there, which could be shifted to taxations and other countries, you will have a resources problem in poor countries. They just like know how basically companies using some sophisticated tax planning out there some of these tax administrations in in low income countries just comedy keep up. And then I'd say third reason is that the budgets of poor countries tend to be more Lionel corporate tax revenues than rich countries. You describe this sort of complicated means of doing this kind of walk me through it a bit. If I'm in a place where the tax rate that I don't much care for and I want to move some of that tax obligation elsewhere entirely legally, how do I do it common? Way of doing. This is to shift profits to attack. Haven by essentially, moving intellectual property to one of these havens, having a company in a tax haven charge. A company in another country for services the money, then flows through the company in the tax haven that company can then essentially claim the business, and of course, the profits attacks in the tax haven at a lower zero rate from what you've seen this sort of the the fraction of avoided taxes on the rise. Why is that largely that's to do with the the rise of intangible assets like intellectual property, which just easier to shift to tax havens, then physical assets. You know, if you have a factory, and it's making stuff, you know, you can you can play some some games you can move stuff around. But what you can do limited. Right. So all of this is a fiddle rather than than lawbreaking per se. But is there any sort of mix of the two where you find of Wedenesday you find also full on of Asian tax avoidance is is often said to be legal tax evasion. Illegal, but it's a little bit more complicated than that. If you're a big multi-national in your your using cross-border activities. Avoid tax love what you're doing is exploiting mismatches between national tax laws. So you may not be breaking the tax law of a particular country of any particular country. But what you're doing when somebody from the outside looks at it. It looks a little bit funny. It looks bit strange. You're not paying taxes anywhere or you're paying a much lower level of tax often that is because of this wriggling through gaps if you like mismatches between different countries tax laws, if it is then just sort of a massive all of these different national level laws. Then it must be a mess to try to fix it. Right. Right. It is and there'd been a number of efforts over the years. It's very complicated stuff at the end of the day. The main efforts try and deal with this a program called base erosion and profit shifting that alone. Should tell you how complicated. This is. They've had a good stab at it. But to be honest being more disagreement than agreement on on many issues in in in particular, really important issue of the digital economy countries have been getting practical help as well in certain instances. So this program that's run by the. OCD, and it's called tax inspectors without borders. And essentially what they do they parachute in tax experts auditing experts from variety of countries may mostly from North America and Europe into lower income countries. Where tax authorities have been having problems essentially sort of keeping up with the game. And so those parachuted in sort of international tax Birt's. How are they doing? Does that does that work? Well, we've done it in a whole bunch of countries and essentially working pretty well, I think there are fifty one program so far in over forty countries mind standing is that for every dollar that the program costs they've helped countries to recoup about one hundred dollars in lost revenue. And what about the the response from the companies that have formerly been able to sort of move a lot of their money around. They must not like this development. They don't like it too much. They've complained about a variety things not least compliance costs the extra compliance costs. But generally, they've sort of come to accept it. They also interestingly started to look to poke. People from tax authorities that have had Texas which is without borders in because, you know, the people working there have a better understanding of the issues from the side of the of the government, but they could also be useful as employees for for some of the companies have to deal with from the other side. What about an effort to kind of essentially sort of reduce the chance for arbitrage for kind of a genuine international agreement on how to corporate taxes there any hope of that. 'cause this seems to be tackling one of the symptoms and not the cause. Well, yes, as I said, it's very complicated stuff. But the looks like he wants to have another stab at this in light of the problems that they've had with getting global consensus on the digital issue on taxing internet companies. So there's some radical rethinking going on if they can get agreement on it. It will it will lead towards kind of a fairly radical react reallocation of taxing rights, which will essentially see more of the pie going to socal market and source countries. Which essentially the countries where the customers are the. A uses. I'm what companies do most of the manufacturing and production. Unless for the residents countries where they're domiciled often with dubious justification and less for tax havens. Matthew. Thank you for your time. Thank you. On monday. The Academy Awards ceremony will unfold in all its glitter, but several nominated films have unglamorous themes such as Roma about an indigenous Mexican housekeeper another is comparing on which is about street. Children in Lebanon Capanna is nominated for best foreign language film, directed by Nadine lab aqui who is the first hour woman to be up for an Oscar for a feature film Alice Fordham is a producer here on the show who used to live in Lebanon. I was interested to see this film because when you live in Beirut constantly and uncomfortable feeling that you live in a city that exists onto planes on the one hand, it's a warm sociable place in the streets of full of people outside cafes and bars. Chatting and smoking, but because you're outside it's impossible to ignore what's happening in low I level, which is that. There are lots of small children really young really ragged putting on your sleeve backing selling things, and it's heartbreaking, and this film. Panam is about that underworld. It's about a little Lebanese who ends up living on the street. And I had the chance to boomers Lubbock and ask why she chose to make this film. The site of those children on the streets. Children working tildren begging selling gum. I felt you know, I should do something about it. In a way. I can't be be silent. Because I said like I was collaborating in a way in this crime little boy is called Zine in the first scene. We see him in is actually in court room figures, whom yet this and he's explaining to the judge that he's wound up in juvenile jail. The stopping someone that his parents never registered his birth that he's about twelve McGinn together and that he wants to sue his parents. And then we go back and learn his story that he never went to school that his beloved sister was married when she was still a child that his parents got him involved in low level, drug dealing that kind of thing. And is that a common story among kids in Lebanon? We'll be honest. I was while the shocked by it, I reported f. A years, and I knew the what desperate people in Lebanon, a lot of people are refugees from the Syrian war. But I'd never seen this kind of poverty and desperation in Lebanese families, and I'd never seen families and social relations totally broken down ever seen child marriage. But I often celebrity about it. And she said she had done a lot of research and work the charities any many, there's thousands and thousands of cases like that in on in one family. And this is something that, you know, we observed so much in one family you have all of the children are not registered all of these children. Don't go to school. And an interesting thing about her is that on the one hand, she makes movies with these strong social themes, and then on the other she's an active politician in Lebanon. She was part of of a new political group that ran in Beirut's municipal elections. And what was the group's platform? How did it go? Well, it was cooled Beirut is my city, and what was different about it was that it didn't have a sectarian affiliation. It was anti corruption sort of things like infrastructure projects it didn't win. But it got pretty well. And it still active still building up its grassroots support. And I think I felt the need to do something about it. In a way in politics was completely failing and the system I think is still completely failing. So at one word, I think at one moment, you feel like you have to just dig dig in it, and how much do you think her politics are activism influences work as a director? I think enormously. I think her work takes on these themes really strongly, we know that is sort of a mission especially living in this part of the world where everything needs to be requestioned and changed and the reexamine and that she sees art, basically as an extension of activism, and how about her chances to you. Do you think she's in line for winning an Oscar she's nominated in a very strong category? This. Here. It doesn't include the big hit Romer from Mexico. But I think that she's delighted it's received this much attention. We I personally truly believe in the power of art in the of cinema in in really changing things. And it's really believe that politics need in order to change its perspective. I was thanks for coming. This side of the glass, you might as well condition. That's all for this episode of the intelligence, you can subscribe to the economist at a communists dot com slash radio. Offer twelve issues for twelve dollars twelve pounds see back here tomorrow.

Saudi Arabia Pakistan India Beirut China Saudi consulate Academy Awards Lebanon Jamaica Sean Joshi prince Mohammad bin Salman IMF Iran Jason Palmer editor Asia Oscar
House voting tonight on Biden COVID relief bill

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell

43:47 min | 4 months ago

House voting tonight on Biden COVID relief bill

"We're covering two breaking news stories at this hour and at the end of the hour we will cover the most important ongoing political story of our time. The republican party's nationwide attempt in state legislatures to restrict voting. In this country. We'll be joined by arizona's secretary of state and she will get tonight's last word. The breaking news in congress tonight is the voting. The biden covert relief bill. The other breaking news of the night is that the f. b. i. has singled out a suspect in the killing of capital police officer. Brian sick nick in the attack on the capital on january sixth. The fbi has found someone on video of the attack who appears to be responsible for the death of officer sick. Nick have more details on this big break in the fbi. Investigation of the killing of officers picnic after we begin with coverage of the breaking news in the house of representatives. Tonight the house. Rules committee is voting right now on the one point nine. Trillion dollar biden cove relief bill but includes an increase in the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour house speaker. Nancy pelosi was disappointed. And last night's ruling by the senate parliamentarian elizabeth mcdonough that an increase in the minimum wage could not be included in the biden. Covert relief built as part of a budget. Reconciliation package because of the unique parliamentary budget rules of the united states senate rules that do not apply in the house of representatives. It wasn't the first time in her career. That speaker pelosi was disappointed by a ruling by the senate parliamentarian and she could not have been surprised this time. Democrats and republicans have always believed unanimously. Believed that it was impossible to include a minimum wage increase in budget. Reconciliation bill in the senate which is why they have never tried to do it before never and that's closys entire career in congress. The democrats have never attempted to increase the minimum wage in a reconciliation bill. Senator ted kennedy was the chairman of the senate leader committee in three different decades and he never wants attempted to raise the minimum wage in a reconciliation. Bill because he believed it was against the rules of the senate and ted kennedy always wanted to raise the minimum wage so with decades of precedent stacked against them. The senate staff of chairman bernie sanders. budget committee. Still made a very powerful case to the senate parliamentarian to include the minimum wage in the budget reconciliation. Bill that was so powerful. An argument that it took the senate parliamentarian several days to decide the issue speaker. Nancy pelosi today correctly did not blame the senate parliamentarian. She blamed the rules of the senate and by implication the senators who support those rules as a matter of a practice. I don't get involved in the rules of the united states senate but as a matter of values i can just say not rest until we pass the fifteen dollar minimum wage. We have been engaged in the fight for fifteen for a long time is legislation that affects overwhelm majority of sober. Sixty percent of the people make minimum. Wage are women many are moms and it is so essential for us to do this and whether it happens when we send this over there we are sending it as a symbol of a difference. It'll make in the lives of the american people but not just a symbol but as a solid proposal if it doesn't prevail because of senate rules we will persist but we will not stop until we very soon pass the fifteen dollar minimum wage. Here's what speaker pelosi said about the imports of the biden. Covert relief bill even without the minimum wage increase. This is a spectacular piece of legislation while the senate has prevented us temporarily from passing one aspect of it. Let's not be distracted from what is in here because it is a great bill. House majority whip james clyburn said that house democrats decided to keep the minimum wage in their version of the bill. Even though they know it will not pass the senate because they want to emphasize to the people. Just how urgent. It is to raise the minimum wage. We're going to do this I i think that the speakers correct. That's why we keeping it in our bill if we were gonna be political about it. I think we'll just take it out of the ville. No we are doing this because we responded to the american people. We are that body here in the congress. That's closest to the american people. We think that fifteen dollars an hour ought to be the law of the land leading off our discussion. Tonight is jared bernstein. He's a member of the president's council of economic advisors. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. On this important night I wanna get your reaction first of all. Let's deal with the parliamentarians ruling. Because i think you and i both Would have bet that this is the way it would come out. Just because of literally decades of president but build ouster chief counsel of the senate budget committee made obviously a very very impressive argument to keep the parliamentarian thinking about it for several days. And and we know elizabeth mcdonough was not was. She was not looking for The pressure that she got from this But but this is what i think. Most of us who've worked in this arena have always assumed the rule would be interpreted this correct and i also heard that build ouster did a tremendous job in as he said that must have been the case because it took her awhile to make the call that she did even though it was expected. I think the most important thing here is what we just heard nancy. Pelosi and congressman clyburn. Say the people's house is doing the people's business especially the democrats over there and the people's business is working on not just getting the american rescue plan over the legislative goal line. That's so important because there's so much more in here than the minimum wage but making sure that the president and the congress find a way forward on the minimum wage is well. It's a given the parliamentarians decision. You know. it's it's looks like it's going to come out of the bill as she said. That doesn't mean this. Fight is over. President and biden is committed to making sure that essential workers who kept kept this country going through this pandemic crisis this joint health care and economic crisis a dead paid a fair wage and that fair wage in his view is fifteen dollars. An hour has never wavered from that point. The ron klein was on your radio night and he said before. The parliamentarian ruled that vice-president harris would not attempt to overrule the parliamentarians. Call on this one. Especially because the democrats do not plainly do not have the votes on the floor of the senate to sustain. What would be the vice president's overruling of the parliamentarian because you you would only have at most forty eight votes to support that right. But i think what the democrats do have on the floor of the senate and i won't be very clear. This is a an historic night for the house. But that doesn't mean we can relax because we have to now move very quickly through the senate so we can get this relief into the businesses and the families out there in america not to mention production and the distribution of the vaccine the safe opening of the schools two thousand dollars of checks to hard hit families unemployment assistance extension of the unemployment program. That by the way will expire mid mid march so that's critical to get that out of families facing a nutritional shortfalls eviction all of these are components of the plan which democrats in the senate very broadly supported and just to be clear. We're getting some poll numbers. Now it's not a park. it's it's only in washington that this becomes a very partisan story. I saw a poll numbers today. Believe a morning console from this morning or yesterday. Seventy six percent of the american people support the american rescue plan and sixty percents of republicans. Okay the stratospheric numbers. Now ask yourself why. That's the case it's just because it's not a d. or an our preference to safely reopen schools to support families in businesses to get through this crisis to distribute the vaccine to get shots in people's arms to tut tut to make the kind of we're in this together effort that the biden administration has been doing in terms of getting the vaccine out there with the state's relative to the trump administration which is very much. You're on your own good luck. So all of that is in the american rescue plan. Not just the minimum wage. We have a german sanders. The budget committee. And now in i in fact more importantly in this instance chairman wyden of the senate finance committee where this provision would have to be written They are both advocating a provision to be added to the senate bill which would in effect require very big companies to raise their minimum wage. To at least the fifteen dollars they put in a tax penalty if they don't they also have a tax encouragement for smaller businesses to raise their minimum wage up to the fifteen dollar level to you in the administration have a view of that provision. Yet are you for that at this stage. The key word there is yet Not not yet because we just got out today in. It's a complicated piece of work. So we're going to have to look at that very carefully as you suggested. This is a tax penalty for large firms. And don't pay the minimum wage. Avoid the penalty by paying the higher wage. I think where the president is is coming from as we speak right now is that he is going to work with congress to find a way forward on a fifteen dollars minimum wage that goes to everybody regardless of what size firm you work for because his value in this case is that essential workers. Doing the nation's business should not live in poverty Should not should not be paid up comedy level wage as we know as our viewers know the federal minimum wage is seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour time. Full year work. That comes to fourteen thousand five hundred dollars a year. Nobody can sustain a family on that amount. Double that get fifteen and you're talking about thirty thousand dollars a year certainly closer to the kind of living wage that this president is fighting for it. Jarred bernstein thank you very much for joining us on this important night. We really appreciate it. Mike later thank you and your us now. Democratic congressman jamal. Bond of new york is a member of the committee on education and labor carson. Bowman thank you very much for joining us tonight. And welcome to your first reconciliation bill where you're discovering the senate. Parliamentary rules actually. End up controlling the final outcome. As much as you'd like to do it in the house. Nancy pelosi has been through this kind of situation many times before. Let's talk about what is in the bill other than the minimum wage at this stage. And what it is that you consider the most important elements of this bill. If the minimum wage doesn't survive. We have a sound issue of. What the congressman. Our go ahead. Go good now. I think the entire bill is important. Obviously but for me. It's an educator. Looking at the one hundred thirty billion dollars that's going to arcades wealth. Schools of my wife is a teacher out to young children in schools are schools need that marvel open safely. We needed for testing in contact. Tracing we needed for ventilation we needed for vaccination in ppe. We needed for additional teachers. So i'm really excited about the education component to the bill but the minimum wage. We gotta continue to fight for the minimum wage. I mean we're talking seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour even fifteen dollars. An hour is a struggle for so many people across this country prior to the pandemic incense. The pandemic is here. We've lost the congressman's connection of an i want to add as we struggle to get a congressman moments connection back. I want to show you what paul krugman said last night on two with rachel motto and this was when rachel Discussed the issue to the point of of of considering. How good is this legislation. Even if they lose the minimum wage out of the bill. Let's listen to what nobel prize winning economist. Paul krugman said about that this is a. I'm kind of pinching myself. I can't believe that we're about to get a bill. That is as good not perfect and especially on. I missed minimum wage. But there were about to get a bill. That's as good as it appears we're going to get. There is no more distinguished liberal economist. Paul krugman and he is right that in his time watching this kind of legislation. We have never seen anything. This big this good even without the minimum wage and of course the loss of the minimum wage is a disappointment to everyone except the senators. A couple of senators who were opposed to it. The that level of increase in the united states senate and so going forward now the democrats face the challenge of how do you pass the minimum wage and the lesson is you put it in a must pass bill that even republicans have to vote for and the way they did it last time the way they raise the wage last time is they. Put it in a defense spending bill. They stuck it in the defense spending. Bill Ted kennedy managed to get jammed in there at the last minute and that bill got eighty votes in the united states senate because republicans had to vote for the defense spending bill and oddly enough most of the votes against that bill were from democrats who were opposed to the defense spending. That was in that bill and so most of the no votes the last time. The minimum wage increase went through the united states. Senate was in the oddity of it from democrats and so this story is not over. There will be a defense spending bill. There will be bills at legislative vehicles moving through the senate that you can attach anything to including a minimum wage. That's the next chapter of this story. We're gonna take a break here when we come back former federal prosecutor paul butler will join us on the breaking news that the fbi has singled out a suspect in the investigation of the killing of capital police officer. Brian sick nick in the attack on the capital. That breaking news is next. That's a live shot of the house floor where they are debating the when to end the debate on the covid relief. Bill that the vote on ending debate should be soon then. There should be the vote on the bill itself after that. Tonight's breaking news in the new york times. The is that the new york times is reporting that the fbi has singled out a suspect in its investigation of the killing of capital police officer. Brian sick nick during the january six attack on the capital katie benner and adam goldman in the times report. The fbi has pinpointed in its investigation into death of brian. Nick capital police officer. Who was injured while fending off the pro-trump mob that stormed the capital last month and later died according to law enforcement officials briefed on the inquiry. Investigators have now pinpointed. Person seen on video of the riott who attacked several officers with bear. Spray including officer sick nick. According to the officials and video evidence shows that the assailant disgust attacking officers with the bear spray beforehand. One of the officials said the times reports that the f. b. i. suspects that officers sick. Nick was quote related to an irritant like mace or bear. Spray that he had inhaled during the riot also today. The justice spartan indicted six members of the so-called proud boys on conspiracy charges. The six suspects had already been charged in the attack on the capital but they are now charged with conspiracy to obstruct the certification of president biden's electoral victory and to attack law enforcement the new york times reports the department said that the group coordinated their travel to washington and stayed together an airbnb rental near the city. They brought in wore matching uniforms and carried paramilitary gear and supplies including camouflage combat. Uniforms tactical vests with plates helmets. I protection and radio equipment into the capital. According to the indictment once inside they traveled as a group through the building. The department said joining us. Now by phone is paul butler a former federal prosecutor and a law professor at georgetown university. He is an msnbc contributor. And paul let me begin with the breaking news that the fbi has narrowed it down to someone. They see on video and the times reporting seems to indicate they do not yet have the specific identity of the person but they have images of the purse. This is very significant. Investigation is focused on a person who attacked several officers was bear sprays chemical lethal or non lethal agent. There's evidence about advanced planning and a criminal conspiracy because reportedly is video calls. The person discussing attacking officers with bear spray before the actual attack so murder. Charges were require evidence of intent to kill and chemical irritants like bear spray are not usually considered deadly force so the mental state of purpose to kill would be difficult to prove but certainly very serious charges like assault on a law enforcement also are entirely warranted based on this reported evidence. Paul talk about Investigation what does it take to go from that image of a person that they apparently have to getting an identity and a name an arrest so thanks are high. We know that one hundred and thirty eight police officers were injured. As a result of the insurrection. Injuries like concussions burns a heart attack and two suicides lawrence. This is probably the worst day for. Us law enforcement officers september eleventh. So this is a major priority. What do we know. Six members of this group proud boys have already been charged with conspiracy to obstruct certificates kitschy certificate certification the election and to attack law enforcement the leader of the proud boys. This guy enrica cario. Who's named in the indictment as person number one told these white supremacists that they should turn out in record numbers fan across dc and small team so there's coordination. They wore matching uniforms. They care paramilitary gear like helmets and protection and so they can hell bent on destruction. They excessively incited the crowd and they acted in coordination with the tragic results. And so we could tell you who unknown snitch. He's reportedly cooperated with law enforcement. Agents and other investigations to get himself out of trouble. That's certainly one person who the fbi will turn to to try to get information on who actually carry out the attack or the people who sprayed officers take nick chemical poisoning that tragically resulted in his death. And what are the effects of upgrading. The charges against these six boys to conspiracy presumably. That would add to any sentence. What else might it mean. Yeah you're absolutely right. It enhances the sentence but it also creates more incentive for these persons to turn states evidence to cooperate with law enforcement to try to figure out who the leaders are. And who are the people who actually carried out this back and this is welcome transparency from the capitol police who are known for being all that transparency and haven't been during this investigation so we didn't actually know before this indictment how this officer was actually killed and there's other important information that the public has access to from the capitol police for example. We know that a number of kabul police officers are on lease. They're being investigated for the conduct. What is that investigation reveal. And we also don't know about contacts between the rioters republican congress people including whether liars were offered tours of the capitol prior to january six. So these new charges are a welcome advance in terms of the public having more understanding of the dire stakes of what happened on january six. But it's really just the beginning butler. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Always a pleasure law and just to be clear on this breaking news from the new york times tonight. There are no arrests on this part of the investigation yet but the fbi has singled out a potential assailant as the times is reporting of officer. Brian sick nick. They have zeroed in on someone. Apparently they do not yet have the full of that coming up. We will be joined by texas congresswoman lizzie fletcher who accompanied president biden on his visit to texas today as the state recovers from the deadly failure of its power grid wild. The state's junior. Senator was in orlando screaming his way through an anti democracy rally. That's next joe. Biden demonstrated that we once again have a president who believes he is president of all fifty states including the states that he did not win in the presidential election. President biden was welcomed politely and professionally today in texas by republican governor greg. Abbott and the state's republican senior senator. John cornyn both of whom were vigorous opponents of joe. Biden's presidential campaign. The state's junior senator once again decided there was no point to pretending that he cares about the aftermath of the manmade power failure in texas. That cost at least forty lives. He was found on a stage in florida today. Screaming at an anti democracy rally. President biden's first stop was to the harris county emergency operation center where state and local officials briefed him about the recovery efforts and the challenges they still face the president and first lady met with volunteers of the houston. Food bank the largest food bank in the country. That food feeds over one million texans. Their final stop was to one of the federal community vaccination centers that the biden administration has created. Millions of texans have been impacted by the destruction of community. Water systems resulting the power outages environmental protection agency has deployed mobile drinking water labs and houston san antonio fort worth to test water so we can get the so you get boil water advisories lifted and get safe drinking water flowing through those faucets again. Joining us now is democratic congresswoman lizzie fletcher of texas. Who represents the houston area. She is a member of the house. Energy and commerce committee. She met with president biden today in texas and she has the honour of representing the congressional district. Where the junior senator from texas resides carson. Fletcher thank you very much for joining us tonight. Tell us what you are. What you're able to tell joe biden today about what texas needs in the aftermath and their recovery from this failed this power failure system. Well thanks so much lawrence for having me on tonight and breer focus on. What's happening here in texas still. I was really glad to be able to visit with present biden here on the ground in huston today. He is the leader that we need. At this moment. He showed his commitment and his compassion. For the people. Who live here. And i was able to talk to him about how meaningful it is for us to see that leadership to see him here and also that he moved so quickly to approve the disaster declaration before a disaster before the storm hit and to approve the major disaster declaration immediately after and he got to see today on the ground the incredible work of the public servants at every level of government. Who are committed to working on and helping the people who lived through that crisis and working on the the the ways that we can make sure it never happens again so i was just so grateful that he came and saw for himself the incredible community. That's working here in houston to to help. People get back on their feet after last week. Let's listen to more of what the president said today that he was surrounded by texas governing officials who did not vote for him. We're not here. Today is democrats or republicans. Were here today. As americans american leaders with responsibility all of us here parking lot responsibility to all the people we serve crisis hits our states like texas is not a republican or democrat thirty. It's our fellow. Americans are hurting and so our job to help. Everyone in need. Look out for one another leave. Nobody behind or clearly viewers that you're voting by proxy tonight in the house of representatives. Even though you are in houston because we're covering the action on the house floor live this hour And i want to get your What you can tell us about what this cove relief. Bill will mean in texas where many apparently of those fourteen hundred dollar checks. That will arrive for. Texans will immediately have to go pay their power bills. Lauren's this covid relief. Package is absolutely vital. And that's another thing that i was able to talk about a little bit with president biden today because of course he came. You're not only to see the relief efforts. But also the vaccination sense center the new fema mass vaccination in our in. Rg stadium at it so important for us to get more bax nations to get those shots in people's arms to continue testing and to have a robust program to ensure the health of people across the country and to combat the virus as well as having direct checks for people who are hurting. And i know that people are looking for additional unemployment and those economic impact payments. They call my office every day. And we've been helping people get help with our texas workforce commissioner unemployment agency. We know small businesses are taking advantage of these. Ppp loans But that their challenges are great. And after last week's storm they're magnified because across our community have pipes that frozen are now broken and we were out of power than we were out of water or many people who have busted pipes Even when you can get a plumber there are parts here and so people are struggling in their homes and businesses. And it's so important for us to help them as well as that critical funding for state and local governments and last week was a reminder that when we are in a crisis we looked to our government to help us and what we saw today in the emergency operations center. What president biden's on. He said he thought it was the best in the country or public servants. Who are spending the night both last week during this freeze but also in relation to covid spinning days and nights making sure that our community is safe and healthy and we need to make sure that we have that aid to state and local governments have struggled so much because of the all of the difficulties that the covid pandemic has brought in. So there's just vital relief in this bill and i will be voting in favor of it as soon as we have the opportunity to vote on final passage. Were you surprised that the state's junior senator decided was more important for him to be on a stage in orlando today instead of in texas with you telling the president what the kind of help texas needs. Well i certainly think that the opportunity to show the extent of the devastation. As well as the efforts here on the ground is an important opportunity to be able to have that time with the president. And i was disappointed in in what the senator said what was related to me that the senator said convention kind of light of not being here. This is the time where we need our leaders and that's why it was so important to our community. Eight president biden here. And that's an opportunity that i was very glad to be a part of as we're all of our leaders here in houston texas cars womb lizzie fletcher. Thank you very much for joining us tonight for having me. Thank you and coming up. The director of national intelligence has finally issued a report holding the crown prince of saudi arabia. Responsible for the murder of jamal. Khashoggi ambassador michael mcfaul and fall will join us next. Live shot of the house floor where they are voting on the rule that will determine how the bill proceeds through the house. The the vote on the rule will succeed. Of course then they will proceed on the vote on the bill. All of this is going to take a few hours today. The office of the director of national intelligence released an assessment by the central intelligence agency completing that saudi arabia's crown prince mohammed. Bin salman approved an operation in istanbul turkey to capture or kill. Saudi journalist. jamal khashoggi today. President biden said this. I spoke yesterday with the king. Not the prince made it clear to him that the rules are changing. We are going to hold them accountable for human rights abuses. And we're going to make sure that they in fact if they want to deal with us they have to deal with in a way. Human rights abuses are dealt with today. President biden said this about the first airstrike that he ordered yesterday. Which targeted buildings in syria they said used by iranian-backed forces that launched certain certain strikes against american contractors and possibly american personnel in iraq. You can't get you can act with impunity. careful today. Pentagon presser john. Kirby told told under mitchell that this was all legally authorized. The president acted well within his constitutional authorities under article. Two is commander in chief. The united states to protect american servicemembers involved in operations clearly. There's a constitutional authority here joining us. Now michael mcfaul is the us ambassador to russia. During the obama administration he is an msnbc international affairs analyst and embarrasment fall a lot of pushback a significant push back from democrats about the legality of that strike by president biden democratic. Senator tim kaine saying of the the people. American people deserve an explanation of the legal authority. He doesn't see legal authority for this We go through this discussion every time and nothing seems to get resolved on the legal authority You're right nothing seems to get resolved for decades by the way lawrence. This isn't just something new. The the conrad. The congress wants authority but oftentimes they don't want to take the responsibility. I remember this very bitterly back in two thousand thirteen. When president obama was seeking their authority to do airstrikes in syria. And it didn't happen. In my opinion. This was the right decision to take. The iranians need to know that we will protect our troops. They were in danger. And i think it was the right strike at the right time and proportionate to the threat that was at had so on the killing of jamal khashoggi. What does the president accomplish a in these conversations with saudi arabia. What does saudi arabia have to fear. Now if anything from the biden administration. I i think it's a real improvement over the trump era. Let's be clear about that. We never talked about democracy and human rights at all during the trump area with respect to saudi arabia. So i applaud that i applaud the publication of the report and i applaud the new list at secretary lincoln list about seven seven seventy five or so Officials that will be on a visa ban list from saudi arabia. Because of this heinous heinous murder. That happened but i hope it's not the last step because let's be clear s crown prince mohammed bin. Salman is not being punished here. They didn't say his name. He was not sanctioned. And i think it's a very weak signal of this is the last that we see in this drama. They promised asks recalibration. That's the word they're using. We are looking to recalibrate our bilateral relationship with saudi arabia. I think that's good. I just hope it's comprehensive and not just this one that we had today it certainly is unlike any other public document that the united states has issued about saudi arabia. This is an indictment it's ineffective in criminal indictment. It says the crown prince's had absolute control over the kingdom security. It's a very specific indictment of the crown prince but there's that problem of they have the ability to indict. But what do they have the ability to do beyond the leveling the charge. Well they could do more you know they chose to do less you're right. They have indictable of a crime. And i really want to underscore a heinous crime horrible crime. Mister kashogi was not trying to overthrow. The regime wasn't storming palaces. He was rather moderate critic. I knew him i. We had a conferences together with him. When i hear out at stanford and so it's clear as day what the crime was committed. It's clear as day who ordered it. I would say directed at. I would use a stronger and they could do more. They could put 'em bs that could put him on the visa bad less i. That's a step that could take. They could move the people that they put on this new visa ban list onto the magnitsky. Let's and then they could name them and by the way that we go a lot further in terms of punishing them by by. Just doing it in this private way. That's a much smaller than putting on magnitsky less and then they could go farther. They could recalibrate the entire relationship. My own view is that we think we need saudi arabia. Saudi arabia needs us. And i think we need to change fundamentally the balance of power in this relationship. And i'm i'm willing to wait. I'm willing to hope that the biden administration will fundamentally recalibrate everything former ambassador. Michael mcfaul very much for joining us. Really appreciate and coming up arizona's secretary of state katie. Hobbs will join us on the single most important ongoing political story of our time the republican attempts to restrict voting in this country with arizona. Republicans taking it to a whole new level. That's next our last word. Tonight is nothing less than the most important political story of our time. The national effort by the republican party to prevent people from voting. Because they believe that that's the only way they can win elections already this year. More than two hundred fifty bills have been introduced in state legislatures around the country. That would make it more difficult for people to vote most of those bills focus on limiting mail in voting increasing voter. Id requirements and the process of deleting names from the voter rolls arizona. Republicans are so angry about. Joe biden winning their state that they have introduced nineteen bills in the legislature designed to help the next republican presidential candidate win arizona and defied democracy in the process. If necessary one of those arizona bills would establish a special session of the legislature. The monday after election day to review or investigate the results of the election and give legislators the power to pick the state's presidential electors for the electoral college voting rights advocates say the bill would give the republican legislature the authority to decide the election results. Republican state senator david gallant. The bill sponsor says the legislation isn't meant to override the vote of the people but provides a process for auditing. The election journey. Joining us now is arizona secretary of state katie hops. I guess she's not joining us now. We've managed to lose more than one connection with our guests tonight in this terribly challenging time for our control rooms. The state legislature in arizona is considering a bill that will provide for a period of auditing and investigating the vote by the legislature itself. Arizona already has a process for doing this and katie hubs is going is joining us now to tell us what your process is. Now what you've used extensively in this election for reviewing votes recounting votes and what the legislature wants to change it to well. We have already built in a logic and accuracy tests in every county before each election and then after each election so they're testing the equipment prior a book before and after the election to make sure it's working properly and there's also a hand count audit in every county Maricopa county has gone above and beyond this year and done a an additional. Post-election logic actually Accuracy tests and then just finished two other deep deep audits on all of the equipment and the results came back completely clean but the senate has subpoenaed all of the equipment all of the ballots to do their own. So-called independent audits. A judge today ruled that that subpoenas valid the county has to turn those things over But it's too they're trying to put those things into statute into the future so that they would have just unfettered access to all of the equipment in ballots. Mets concerning on many levels number one be already do all of those things but number two. There's concerned about chain of custody and things like that which you know most people should have a little bit of skepticism about in terms of turning those things over to a third party the ib the more the ballots move around the more susceptible they become to manipulation absolutely. Yeah we certainly don't want that to happen. And in the senate's of review that they're going to now review all of the votes cast in the last presidential election Because they've managed through a subpoena to get custody of those of those ballots What do you expect to happen in that review. Well i expect them to find nothing wrong. I expect the results to match. What the The the tabulated results came up from the election. We know that there was no widespread fraud or irregularity that changed votes and their audit is gonna come up the same way that all the other audits have come up and the people that are hoping that something wrong is going to be founder. Going to be very disappointed at the end of of this additional audit. You've been doing. Mail in voting is since one thousand nine hundred ninety two twenty eight years of experience with it absolutely no complaints about it until now well you know it has been a little bit more of a partisan issue in the last couple of years but we it was enacted in a bipartisan manner. And the permanent list was put in place in a bipartisan manner. And seventy five percent of voters in arizona are on the permanent early voter so it is highly popular and i think republicans mess with that at their peril because it is not just used by democrats in our state. Arizona secretary of state katie. Hobbs thank you very much for joining us tonight really appreciate.

senate president biden fbi biden texas elizabeth mcdonough congress biden administration President biden united states nick Nancy pelosi lizzie fletcher paul krugman Senator ted kennedy house of representatives
Saudi Aramco Target Valuation Falls Short

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13:35 min | 1 year ago

Saudi Aramco Target Valuation Falls Short

"Wall Street Journal listeners. Come from all walks of life and business and no matter what type of business urine eighty P is here to help you achieve what you're working king for with. HR talent time benefits and payroll informed by data and designed for people learn more at design done eighty p dot com another weekend of violent protests in Hong Kong as a High Court rules against a ban on masks that could raise tensions with Beijing. But it's likely that they will not be pleased with the Salamanders and ARAMCO aims for evaluation of up to one point seven trillion dollars. Less than expected. They have essentially given up hope that they can make inroads in enticing. US investors plus president trump delays the decision on possible e cigarette restrictions. This is what's news from the Wall Street Journal. I'm Kim get I'll send. Let's get started now before we take a look at the Saudi oil giant Aramco and why it's target valuation is lower than some people had been hoping for. Here's what you missed. It was another another violent weekend in Hong Kong. Protesters continued to occupy the campus of Polytechnic University. Early this morning. They threw Molotov cocktails and shot arrows. Heroes at police who tried to retake the campus and at attempt to relieve tensions. The president of the University to angering gang negotiated a temporary ceasefire if the protesters to not initiate the use of force. So please will not initiate the use of force in this show. We have also also received permission. FLOM please for you to leave campus peacefully and I will personally accompany you into the police station to ensure that your case will be fairly processed however as this recording several hundred protesters still still remained on campus separately. Hong Kong's High Court ruled that a ban unmasks was unconstitutional from Hong Kong. Natasha Khan has more. The ban was put forth last month. As a way that the government said could potentially sort of manage the protests instead however however the protests have become increasingly violent A lot of people have defied dismiss ban in the past month in peaceful or violent protests alike. But one of the things. That really does show. I think also is that there is a lot of They're still stronger. Digital Independence and the rule of law here in Hong Kong and and you know as commentators told Laws Journal. You know even at such a politically sensitive time at an wearing their intentions. The courts will still act without fear server. But Natasha says this isn't the end of the story. The ruling can still be appealed but that it's likely that Beijing will not be pleased all along along. Beijing has talked about having a stronger response from a government authorities and the city's independent judiciary For example there has been talk about out faster court hearings things like that. Four people have been arrested so far but again you know. It's likely that they will not be pleased with the Sabella. Meant meant and it remains to be seen how they will respond as you can probably tell the story is still developing and things on the ground are changing rapidly. We'll have the latest updates for you. Are Afternoon Edition later. Today and president trump has delayed making a decision on restricting e cigarettes. The move comes after pushback from the industry and users in September. The president had indicated that he might ban the sale of flavored e cigarettes aimed at younger users. The White House said discussions are continuing and that the administration was committed to responsibly. Protecting the health of children Now our main story this morning we're going to return to subject. We've been following closely Aramco this. The Saudi Arabia state oil giant whose path to public markets has been filled with twists and turns. It still expected to list its shares in December. But now we're reporting that Aramco. Mm Co is considering evaluation of up to one point seven trillion dollars. That might sound like a lot of money but actually falls short of what Saudi Arabia's Prince Muhammad bin Salman had been hoping for. Ben Dumont is in London so Ben Walk me through this valuation. Why did Aramco decide to go? With the lower. Our end of the spectrum the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia he was targeting a valuation of two trillion but based on the price price range. That was released over the weekend. They're targeting now a range of Valuation of between one point six one point seven billion a trillion. Sorry sorry that's That's quite a big number. Obviously but it falls well short of what the Crown Prince wonted Part of that reflects the fact that institutional investors still think at that level that Valuation Company is still too expensive they were they were interested in evaluation of one to one point five trillion. At that point you would have expected a lot of international interest but the crown prince now is kind of a tough spot where he's GonNa have to rely a lot more on local Saudi investors To make to make this. IPO success success but this is accompanied. It's more profitable than apple. Why is this valuation coming in less than expected? What are investors worried about the worried about a a lot of political and economic risk? That's attached to Aramco even though it's the most profitable company in the world its earnings are tied to the oil price so so they can be very. The earning can be very volatile for example in the third quarter profits were down eighteen percent year over year to reflect the the Laurel braces uses and the risks are compounded by the political risks. That come with Aramco you know There was the attacks on their oil L. facilities and in September and that sort of reminded investors that investing in Aramco means. You're exposing yourself to a lot of political risk geopolitical Chris that you wouldn't say if you bought shares an excellent or or Chevron so this valuation of one point six to one point seven trillion. I mean that would mean means that they'd float around twenty five billion dollars so would it lose this world's Most Valuable IPO title that we've been tossing about for what feels like years now. It could. It could if it's if it's priced at the mid range of the valuation then the size of the actual IPO would fall just below just shy of twenty five billion which is sort of the threshold for the biggest set in two thousand fourteen by Alibaba Alibaba. So it's a big it always a blow to the economy because the reason they're doing Saudi Arabia's doing this IPO is to raise money to diversifies Konami way from oil same time. There's a lot of eagle behind This idea of being the biggest IPO IPO ever carrying off the biggest IPO. Ever and so far that that's at risk. And what does Aramco have to say about all of this. Well they've been in fairly. They've been silent. I mean I see the mark. The rules around marketing and I appeal restricted company in terms of what they can say publicly glee. They've issued their the target price range. They've they've come out and said we're we're committed to a growing dividend to try and make it more attractive They've launch a major marketing campaign in Saudi Arabia to to get to drum up local interest. they're getting the banks there to provide loans to two locals to buy the shares but one telling thing about the disappointment. That Aramco's feeling is over. This process is is the fact that Aramco is not going to adopt the rules required for them to market the offering over over the next two weeks to US investors which speaks to the fact that they have essentially given up hope they can make inroads in enticing US investors in a big way a major way to buy the shares. You can find all of our Aramco coverage up on. Wsj Dot Com M. U. F. G. A global financial group with over three hundred sixty years. Experience has spent that a time building businesses communities. And some of history's greatest achievements. We're helping to build. Today's biggest breakthroughs grounded in tradition of financing innovations for today in the future by investing in talent technologies and tools that put our clients changing needs. I am UFP continues to stand apart and propel business forward learn more at MSG fifty America's dot com slash innovate M U G Bank Limited on two markets as you might have noticed. They've been on a tear recently in the very last minute of trading on Friday the Dow topped Twenty eight thousand. Some of the biggest risers have been bank. Stocks Manufacturers is and oil producers. That's interesting because these are all sectors. That are economically sensitive. Quentin web explains what we've seen in the latest rally in the last few weeks since early. October is a big performance from so-called cyclical stocks. That means of course companies in sectors the sensitive to economic economic cycle so banks industrial companies. And so on and you know the implicit message that investors are getting a bit more relaxed about the economic account look whereas perhaps a few months ago there was more fear that the US might tip into a steep downturn or session that seems to have receded a bit in tandem with the sense that in fact Chinese US trade relations are starting to improve. And of course we're seeing some signs that some of the global economic conditions are starting to trough as well. And here's what else were paying attention to today. It's a big week for retailers. With Target Home Depot and macy's all sat to report their third headquarter earnings. The reports follow recent economic data. That saw a modest increase in retail sales in October and in Washington the impeachment hearings will continue continue eight more witnesses are set to testify including the US ambassador to the E. U Gordon Sunland on Wednesday were reporting that his role as an intermediary between president trump and senior Ukrainian officials has become a focal point of the inquiry. Over the weekend. We reported that Mr Sandline had kept the trump administration in the loop about his dealings with Ukraine Rebecca. Bowel House has more from Washington. Sunland on Wednesday is going to be in an interesting position because he's someone who the White House initially expected to be a positive witness for them. Who would sort of emphasize that there was no quid pro quo? And that they he he did not consider this push for investigations troubling however in his revised testimony earlier this month sandline indicated that in fact he did. Did relay a quid pro quo to a Ukrainian official and that in the September conversation with an aid to the Ukrainian president. He said that the aid that it was being held up to Ukraine was not going to be released until Ukraine announced the investigations. The president was pushing for so on Wednesday. It's GonNa it'd be interesting to see how he weaves that sort of thing with the fact that he didn't feel like this push for investigations. That he was working on was necessarily early. Problematic and his view of the president had instructed him and others to work with Rudy Giuliani to resolve the president's concerns about Ukraine which entailed launching these investigations and. They felt that if they did not work with Rudy Giuliani they would effectively be giving up on the. US relationship with Ukraine. The president has defended his dealings with Ukraine as proper finally. Good News. If you've got a few million dollars to spare and are looking to invest in some art were reporting that the market market is increasingly looking like a bargain hunters paradise the sales that concluded from B.'s Christie's and Phillips last week where a third smaller than the year before you're here is just one example. Initially no one bid on Marc Jacobs sale of his nineteen seventy four. Ed Ruda painting. She gets angry at him eventually. After it went up for sale a second time a phone bidder bought it for one point. Seven million dollars below the two million dollar asking Price Works by Juan Miro Picasso so and Donald Judd went for below their asking prices. That's what's news from the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for listening.

Aramco president Saudi Arabia US Hong Kong ARAMCO Wall Street Journal Ukraine Beijing Natasha Khan Polytechnic University White House Rudy Giuliani Valuation Company Hong Kong Alibaba Alibaba High Court Molotov Beijing
A Murder, A Protest, and the Newcastle United Takeover

The Lead

19:31 min | 1 year ago

A Murder, A Protest, and the Newcastle United Takeover

"A quick warning that this episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and might not be suitable for all listeners. Two Years Ago Saudi. Arabian officials killed a well-known journalist. Kashogi was attacked and he died most gruesome way and now the man widely believed to have ordered that killing is in the process of buying Newcastle United. The main player the Saudi Public Investment Fund holding eighty percent of the deal today James Montague a contributing writer for the athletic joins us to discuss the highly polarizing bid to buy one of the Premier League's most beloved teams and one woman's quest to stop it from happening. She's written to the English Premier League requesting to reject the deal. He's also written an open letter. You cost United Fan saying donuts at this club. And we'll hear from a Newcastle Fan Gavin Richmond. Who's wrestling with what this new ownership would mean ethically morally get it Saudi Arabia's the finest example of a country to be running not will feel like Newcastle. Stop in the middle of all this from wondering the I'm under scelzo and I'm beat the Davidson. It's Wednesday may twenty seventh and this is the lead. It felt like something was happening. There is emotion for the past because this isn't a story be the athlete. It stays with you so James. Let's start with the story of Jamal. Kashogi reminded who he was or Jim. Coachee was one of the most influential figures online. In the Middle East Saudi Arabia is a one hundred years old. Monarchy monarchies don't like he was a journalist and so he gained kind reputation in the West for being it could've postive could have liberal thought in Saudi Arabia. And so eventually he leaves the country fearing for his life he finds himself in Washington. Dc He began writing for the Washington Post and start writing criticizing the Saudi foreign policy Saudi domestic policy but as we speak today that Saudi intellectuals under notice jailed now nobody will dare to speak and criticize the deformed alike and walk through what happened on October second twenty eighteen. He'd met a woman at teaching chain gives. Who's a young student from Turkey eventually? This leads to him turning up the Saudi consulate in Istanbul? And on the second of October he was there to get documents essentially so that he could be married and so he went into the embassy and teaching is racing. Free him outside. Jamal went into the and I was waiting near the tool. The appointment was at one. Pm after few hours no one came to me. They were supposed to come and get the phone from me. When I went to the unfortunate he never returned. Three days have passed. Since renowned journalist Journal. G went missing after entering the concert to protest paperwork on Friday. Journalists and human rights activists gathered to demand his release. I it was complete. Denial from the Saudis. Anything had happened to the point where there was even video footage released over man that they claimed with cash. Oh Gee from leaving the consulate. It later turned out that this guy that they had chosen randomly. Who looked a bit like had a bit of a similar build who they dressed up in his clothes and then allowed him to leave the consulate. So to give can afford the impression that he led and then evidence started coming out from Zee TV cameras and it was pretty clear that something very it's had occurred. The Saudis initially said. He wasn't in the building now. They finally admitted that six year old. Kashogi IS DEAD. When he went into the embassy within a few minutes he was suffocated. Maybe drugs certainly murdered and dismembered. The police strongest suspect that his buddy part might have been burned in the stanbury over according to technical and it became a story that the southeast could basically not deny anymore and so eventually all these roads lead to Muhammad bin Salman and tell us a little more about Mohammed bin Salman who the world knows as NBS. This isn't the first controversy that he's been wrapped up in NBA. Very interesting character. He's young and he very quickly amassed of power by taking charge of the defense sector and also intelligence and then of course the suffering wealth instruments which hugely important in Saudi Arabia. Many people mistook his youth and vigor for being a reformist and in many respects. He wasn't reforms women driving for the first time. Even focusing a kingdom trying to rehabilitate its international reputation with sports but then on the flip side of that is that anybody has shown any opposition to NBS whatsoever has found themselves. J. Owed their lives ruined. In the case of cash orgy liquidated one of the first things that he did effectively was launch an absolutely catastrophic war in Yemen in tandem with Muhammad bin Zayed to is the Crown Prince of the United Arab Emirates and between them they effectively bombed using US and British weapons as well as other European countries weapons Yemen almost indiscriminately since the conflict began analysts estimate within than ninety one thousand Yemenis have been killed another three million displaced by the fighting and the country is on the brink of famine with twenty four million people dependent on international food aid and none of the objectives of the war. Really were achieved. This being several other missteps I mean. Nbs Effectively Giles. A couple of hundred of the richest most well-connected Trinidad and business people in the kingdom in the Ritz Carlton in Riyadh and wouldn't let them go. Unless they signed over the their fourteen back to the state including royal family members ministers and businessmen among them two of the Arab world's biggest media moguls hard power being exhibited by NBS and James. Who if anyone has been punished for Jamal Shoji's death? There were several arrests. There was even a trial. Five people sentenced to death is all done behind closed doors at a what happens Jamal. Khashoggi son when EATS BREAKS? He then pardons his father's killers his son. Saleh said in a tweet that quote. We the sons of Mata Jamal Khashoggi announced that we pardon those who killed our father so effectively. No one's going to be paying any price for the murder so the crown prince. Nbs is now connected to an attempted purchase of Newcastle United. What do we know about his role in this takeover as a man who controls absolutely everything in Saudi Arabia? He controls the levers of military power political power economic power and he's the chairman of the Public Investment Fund. Something I think. Around three hundred and fifty billion dollars worth of assets he has economic vision called vision. Twenty thirty which is trying to wean Saudi Arabia of oil because he has become hopelessly addicted to it and so the PIF has been on the kind of asset buying spree especially on the COVID and new concert. Football Club offers something that other investments. Don't follow for clubs the best advertising you could buy the English. Premier League is probably the biggest advertising hoarding in the world and by owning a football club there taking the advice and influence of Manchester City a small northern underdog football club soccer club was transformed into a leading European power so it was a fantastic advertising. Excise rebranding excise for the United Arab Emirates and especially abby and. It's something that has been almost a foreign policy for cats. All over the past twenty years move you sports away to sell a different narrative of itself around the world you know. Middle Eastern Gulf money has been flowing into soccer. The fray sports washing gets used a lot by prefer the phrase reputation wandering because these countries have done pretty bad. Things got pretty bad. Human Rights records. Don't really have any democracy than have freedom of speech but you're not talking about those you're talking about Eddie. Had Airways about going on holiday to vines dead and Saudi Arabia has realized it means changes reputation and really often happened. Come Khashoggi is probably the hardest. Pr Job in the world. He sounds crazy but buying an English primarily. Football CLUB IS STAR. Trying to rebrand yourself give a different story about what kind of country you are. Hopefully try and build a business environment where people don't invest with. What is the size of this bed? And how likely is it to go through? I would be absolutely shocked if it doesn't go through because all the policy seems to have agreed on the deal now. The English Premier League have something owners and directors test which is meant to look at perspective own and say okay. Have you done anything? That is so bad that it would mean that you cannot be an owner of an English Premier League football club. The problem is that there is no human rights elements of this. You know Monica. Someone hasn't been found guilty in a court of law and he's never going to be found guilty of in. Saudi ARABIA IS MORE LIKELY. There are two other elements that might scupper it one of the things. Saudi Arabia allegedly did was two sets up a rival media company to pyre. All of cats ours writes the English premier league and European Champions League football matches. Which is something that Qatari company called? A bean sport had bought and paid hundreds of millions of pounds for so ironically. It's not going to be a human rights that might scupper. If did is the fact that the bottom line the primarily would be affected by piracy like I said. I don't think it's going to be stopped because we did is going to cause a horrendous stink with the government so I think it will go through although they take a lot longer. The many people assume they would assuming this does go through. What will that mean for the club for Newcastle United Immediately? They are one of the richest clubs in the world. You have money you can attract players. You could trust to high a caliber of coaching. You know you look at somewhere like match the city which was a team that hasn't really achieved much in the possible. Thirty four and this money comes in from the United Arab Emirates from every Debbie and they win the title secure about Redeveloping East Manchester which is a very downtrodden. Paul of the north of England. And so it has revolutionized the city revolution the club. And you cost reunited fans going to be looking at that very similar type of demographic as well and say maybe our city can be saved. Maybe our team can. Now Be Awhile player and James. You actually interviewed Jamal. Kashoggi's fiance had TJ. Chang is recently. What did she tell you about bs? And his investors quest to buy new castle in her wads. This sends out a message. That is fine always forgiven. And it's not all fine and it's not forgiven. When I spoke to her she actually sent a message out on twitter saying that she's redone. Happy this is going ahead. And since then she's written to the English Premier League requesting them to reject the deal she's also written an open letter to Newcastle United. Fan saying. Donate this man at your club but clearly motivated and clearly sees how the power and influence you get from buying this club. How useful would be to make the world? Forget about what happened to a fiance. Will James. Thanks so much for your reporting on this note. Anytime coming up how a die Newcastle San feels about all of this. Did you know two out of three guys will experience? Some sort of male pattern baldness by the time. They're thirty five. The best way to prevent hair loss to do something about it while he still have some hair left. You used to have to go to the doctor for a prescription but thanks to keep you can skip the office and go online to get hair. Loss Medication delivered right to. Your home keeps makes it easy and delivered your medication. Every three months so you can say goodbye to the pharmacy. Checkout lines and of course feels awkward. Doctors visits keeps can take four to six months or more to see results so that makes it even more important to act fast. The sooner you start using keeps the more hair you'll save find out why keeps has more five star reviews than any of its competitors and nearly one hundred thousand men trust keeps for the hair loss. Prevention Medication keeps treatments. Started just ten dollars a month. Plus for a limited time. Get your first month free. If you're ready to take action and prevent hair loss go to keeps dot com slash lead to receive first treatment for free that's K. E. E. P. S. dot com slash lead from the team behind business. Wars gladiator in the lead. Come sports wars. Are you interested in reliving? Some of the biggest rivalries in sports from Tom Brady peyton manning to the Yankees versus the mets. Some of the most elite athletes of all time have battled their biggest rivals for the chance to go down in history as one of the greats time to figure out which side you're on subscribed to one sports wars on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you're listening now so I I should say that you and I have known each other for quite some time so I'm GonNa ask you a question that I already know the answer to. What's it like in your house when you watch the Newcastle Game? It's a little bit crazy. It's a little bit loud it's a full of explosives. Yeah it's Kinda crazy but I mean that's what it's like at the game software to recreate you know and tell us about the tattoos. Well most of my tattoos are all new. Custody related maiden UK-US LAMI BELLY. The plan risk of famous songs tightly with her own beyond. It's over fact but now goes aware a little me wife but I don't hover. Nam wouldn't way don't mention not to hourly. So what's it like to be a Newcastle United Fan? Oh John it's like a roller coast on its open. Dow when you go through phases of being not so bad. Thirteen Has a gentleman by the name of Mike. Ashley Buys the club and since he bought the club. It's pretty much being spiraled downhill and so it's a real rollercoaster. You know it's a low hair relationship. So I want to ask you about this potential takeover of Newcastle. What are your feelings about it? Well demet this two different stories to this. The the emotion potent story for Newcastle Finance is that might actually is going to sell the club. That's what all Newcastle fans want. They want Mike Ashley the Salad Club. The because like I said it's been in years of misery to relegations in those thirteen years. Which almost a made the didn't and then the second part. Is that Saudi Arabian Royal Palm. You WANNA buy the clothes. So you've got two completely different things and you know. Unfortunately the accustomed funds other people still in the middle so for me. Personally I. I'm desperate fall. Mike Ashley to get to leave the club. If comes in whether it's the Saudi Ri- Family Infants anybody else. Desperate for them to really put you custody battle In China Waco sleeping giant in all the infrastructure that have got a massive massive fund based it could be another month star city. I hit and assuming this does go through. And there's this huge infusion of money in new players presumably a lot more winning if all that happens because of money from Mohammed bin Salman and Saudi Arabia. Does that leave you feeling any different? You don't think that it's top and be full Chelsea God boughten Abo- by a Russian oligarch. They're the most amazing people in the world munches a city owned by the United. Our government's royal family. Unfortunately I just think that's. How football is these days. I think that much in Chelsea of kind of sold a soul to the devil and there's a chance Newcastle could do that as well but I really don't know how I would feel until it actually happens. I'm still skeptical. That it's actually GonNa happen in our assays stories every day in. It just seems like it's in the stars that Newcastle. Never ill now on that. Lay that ethically morally. Yeah I get it Saudi Arabia's a finest example of the country to be running that will I feel like Newcastle finds? Stop in the middle of all this and aunts it's out in Hans Lastly Gavin. How will you be watching games? If and when the Premier League returns oh well. I'm washed to cooler. Those games with no fons and it's dreadful author the first one. I'll watch the game and thousand seat stadium with nobody in it but now the scene of the pipe and crowd nicest through. That sounds a little bit but I. I'm I don't know I just keep writing this emotional rollercoaster of Willy Godbolt Bobo regardless who owns them. Who's playing them who that plan. I'll be watching. I'll have me a love me shared on allowed and obnoxious swearing and screaming and change regardless of. Who's on our of Newcastle? Who's playing them? Who's The monitor anything that will never ever change? Well thanks for chatting with US Gaffe. That's it for today. Thanks to listening wondering and the athletic. I'm under skelter. See You tomorrow.

Saudi Arabia Newcastle Jamal Shoji James Montague United Arab Emirates English Premier League Newcastle United NBS Mata Jamal Khashoggi Saudi Public Investment Fund Kashogi Saudi consulate Football Club Mike Ashley Middle East
Wednesday, November 21: Consequence$$$

Start Here

21:47 min | 2 years ago

Wednesday, November 21: Consequence$$$

"It's Wednesday November twenty first how much is a life worth. No. I'm asking we start here. It is what it is President Trump gets blunt about the death of Jamal kashogi and whether he punished the man who apparently ordered it. Maybe did maybe did what happens when Justice just gets too expensive stocks take another huge plunge. What's gonna be that juice in the economy? What it means for how we think about the eighteen economy and the NRA told doctors to stay in their lane. That is a fact that the only people who can tell you are either surgeons or the coroner we're that conversation went when their peers were shot in a hospital. From ABC news. This is start here. I'm Brad milkey. Now to the southern White House river lot of work. We're going to be doing this morning. President Trump is in Florida for thanksgiving holiday. But yesterday is he got ready to leave the White House? Press corps had some questions have you. During your written answers to molar yet. One of the big pieces of unfinished business was whether he had answered written questions for Robert Muller's Russia probe finish the written answers finish. Now, we should say this is the second time in a week the president claimed to have just finished them. But he did tell our senior White House. Correspondent Cecilia Vega them. I assume they'll tournament today or soon he was right? The president attorneys later told ABC news, those answers had been submitted capping months of negotiations over what questions the president would respond to. The president was selective with reporters as well. Question. Your voice your voices, but ended up answering a whole range of questions about his daughter Ivanka's worke mail sent from a private account classified like Hillary Clinton. They weren't deleted. It's all in the presidential records. Everything is there. Visiting active military. No, I'm going to awards in what he thought of the court that batted down his plan to deny silent those who illegally crossed the Mexican border. Well, you go to the ninth circuit. And it's a disgrace that I'm going to put in a major complaint because you cannot win if you're a case in the ninth circuit, and I think it's a disgrace. What people file every case gets filed in the night circuit because they know that's not law. That's what this country stands for every case that gets filed in the ninth circuit we get beaten. And then we ended up having to go to the supreme court like the travel ban, and we won. And that is a wiser moment right there. Right. A US president saying one of the highest courts in the land just below the supreme court is not legitimate. And a fact check their the administration did have to revamp that travel ban several times for the actually tried to take it to the supreme court, but he was the real exchange that drove the day. The Saudis over your own intelligence because it's America. I to me that was President Trump once again talking necessarily Vega except this time he was talking about a US resident a journalist who was apparently murdered and dismembered in Turkey saying the guy who apparently ordered it. We're not going to hold them responsible. He's too important Arabia. If we broke with them, I think you're oil prices would go through the roof. I've kept him down. They've helped me keep them down. And you know, the story Tim office. Oh, gee was from the Washington Post. He walks into the Saudi consulate in stem Bill. He goes missing the Saudis denied denied deny until finally admitting a hit squad had been sent to murder him, which they did. But the CIA has reportedly told the president make no mistake. These orders came from the top straight from crown prince Mohammad bin Salman to which Trump replied, literally, it is what it is a very complex situation. It's a shame. But it's it is what it is. I want to go to the person who got this ball roll. Cecilia Vega is at the White House now and Cecilia this whole bizarre exchange began with a written statement. Yeah. This was a complete. Wow statement. I think there were a lot of jaaz on the floor here in the White House press area. This this is this was an exclamation point filled statement, a rant really the president was just emphatically declaring that the world is a dangerous place, and and he criticizes the murder he says that that the US will not condone and does not condone what happened to Jamal kashogi. But then in the same breath, he essentially declared the matter case closed, he says, it could very well be that NBS the crown prince had knowledge of what happened to kashogi or the CIA has looked at it. They've studied it a lot. They have nothing definitive. And the fact is maybe did maybe did. So in the end, he citing with the crown prince in the in the Saudi Royal family on this one. We'll. And you are an expert now I'd say in President Trump's writing we think he wrote that himself, right? It reads very much like the mind of Donald Trump. Yeah. Just wanted to make sure thank you Cecilia. Thanks, brad. And I want to quickly get some analysis from somebody who knows the stuff somebody who is usually in the field, but ABC senior foreign correspondent an panel is in New York right here Grigsby with you here in the flesh brass ho glide, your Lilla. Well, I know I'm glad you didn't. I'm glad you're here today of all days because you, and I had just been talking about whether mobile politics would in your words, Trump human rights in regard to Jamaica Shoji. Did you get your answer yesterday? Exactly. I think is exactly will you. And I were talking about what we predicted earlier this week is the the primacy and the president quite rightly of the trade deal, but also of the strategic relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia is much more important. We also need a counterbalance and Israel each help. Also, if we abandoned Saudi Arabia would be a terrible mistake county about balancing will they see as the threat from Iran. The there. Number key countries in the region key allies, the United States remember during the Bush administration come to LIZA rice, referring to moderate friends in the Middle East. It's the same countries is Saudi Arabia. It's israel. It's Egypt is countries at the United States relies on not just for energy, not just for trade, but full security. Well, let me ask you about that idea that that if the US refuses to sell arms to Saudi Arabia that that money goes away, those jobs go away, they all goes to Russia, and China, we might not get such a sweet deal and oil anymore. Does that logic checkout? I think there's a bit of a leap to say, those those jobs, and those contracts are immediately going to go to Russia and China. I mean, the reason the the Saudi Arabia comes to the United States is because it won't specific weapons specific systems. Now, also Saudi Arabia has an interest in the strategic relationship with the United States as well says, that's certainly true. But take the UK, for example, we should be very clients about Jamal. Has shown Gina. I mean, the UK also relies heavily. It's defense industry relies heavily on deals with Saudi Arabia as well. So there is still an argument actually the in one on one level. At least the president moves moron saying. It's a very complex situation. It's a shame. But it's it is what it is. This is more important to us than the case of one gymnasts because that is a sad reality. What we're talking about right now. What happens next than in all this? If the president has made up his mind, what's next? Yeah. Exactly. So I see that doesn't seem to be smoking gun. CIA session was just not an assessment if they have evidence that proves the end the s Muhammad bin Salman, the crown prince older, the killing we would have seen it by now is it possible something could emerge. Yes. Of course. But until that time, I think it's business as usual who got the G twenty summit coming up and went his hours in Argentina, the president's going to be them. How many bin Salman is also going to be that will meet what will the upticks bay will the other world leaders also sit down with the crown prince, this will be the real moment of truth. Whether we know whether he's whether everyone's essentially just swept under the compass. There's a picture of just Trump an MVS together and everyone's off to the Delhi. Exactly. And. Don't forget that the Saudi foreign minister also reiterated an interview with an Arabic newspaper, the the crown prince and the king our red lines for Saudi Arabia. Nobody should threaten that position either. And a repeating other presidents might have well reached the same conclusion. Right. That that we need seventy Arabia when it comes to rivals like, Iran. They did not say at this. Bluntly, and create the sort of it is what it is policy. We know one thing we need ABC's in panel to come to New York or often. Thank you, grace if he hid, right? Thanks. Next up on start here at what point do you? Admit stocks are having a bad year. So if you're struggling to get a good night's sleep. Then maybe it's time to give the purple mattress try. It's made out of this brand new material that's better than memory foam. It's breathable it sleeps cool, and it's got a zero gravity feel to it. You can try it with its one hundred night risk retrial, and it's got free shipping and returns. Also, you'll get the spree purple pillow when you get the purple mattress just by texting ABC course, seven four seven four seven the only way to get a free pillow is to text ABC two four seven four seven four seven. That's ABC two four seven four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply. We talk about how great the economy is. And how it rebounded under President Obama? How it's continued under President Trump. The jobs record streak has been extended. The unemployment rate is that a five decade low wages are up three point one percent for the year. That's the best wage growth since two thousand nine how the fed is felt confident enough to raise interest rates but yesterday at the closing bell, the Dow plunged five hundred fifty two points, it had been down more than six hundred forty points, and as of the closing bell. The Dow had raced its gains for the year, we were confronted with a cold hard fact, if you put money in the stock market at the beginning of the year, you've probably lost money on that investment at this point companies who are crowing this time last year or worth less than they were. Then let's get to ABC's chief business and economics correspondent, Rebecca Jarvis. Rebecca what happened yesterday? So what we've seen and this has been a theme now for the last handful of months is that a number of companies in particular technology. Gee companies the Apple's net flicks. Google Amazons of the world have really taken a head and these were some of the highest flyers both last year and early this year, these are companies that hit record highs in the summer and even in the September. Now they've sold off. They've wiped out about a trillion dollars in value since those all time highs hit basically in depending on the stock July or September of this year in one of the things that's come up here is that while things are okay. The question is what is the thesis for things getting better in the future? We've now seen the tax cuts take affect the creating jobs and expanding. The American dream just like we said would happen. That's the way it's happened. We've seen deregulation take effect lifts cut the red tape. And as you mentioned now, we had a Federal Reserve that is looking at the economy saying, it's an a strong enough place to continue hiking interest. Rates and we have the overhang of what happens with tariffs. Retail giants are sounding the alarm bracing for price hikes and warning American consumers could bear the brunt of a new round of US tariffs. The more. Prolonged it gets the more costly, it becomes to US businesses that eats into profits that eats into margins. And as a result of that, it becomes part of the reason that Wall Street says this thing I valued really highly earlier in the year. Maybe it doesn't justify it anymore. But here's the thing. Right. You you've said this. The stock market is not the economy, like only half of Americans own stocks. So the markets don't really tell the story of our lives. Right. They tell the story of of these companies. What are you seeing from the rest of the economy? Then is there this sense of Ono happening right now? So right now, the economy is on relatively firm footing. You have wages rising and rising a little bit faster than they were. You have the jobless picture very strong. In fact, we've got. Incredibly historically, low unemployment in this country. The question still again is what is the impetus for things to improve in the future. We know things are fine for now. But next year what's going to be that juice in the economy that might ref things up more than where they stand today and over these next couple of weeks as we look at holiday sales. There are very high expectations of Americans coming out and spending money in the stores over the holidays this economy our economy, really our growth really depends on what we do as consumer seventy percent of our economic growth comes back to us the consumer how are we spending? How are we feeling? And if we're not feeling good, and we're not spending things start to slow down. It's not time to hit the panic button. Unless maybe you one of those companies that might have been overvalued a year ago, Rebecca Jarvis. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Brad. You might have seen the story on Monday. Witnesses saying they heard multiple gunshots at mercy hospital as the horrific events unfolded. The shooter was running out of how Hsun and the nurse getting a room getting the room shoot a Hsun. We'd learned a lot more since then according to police on Monday afternoon. Thirty two year old one Lopez found his former fiancee in a parking lot leaving work at mercy hospital in Chicago investigators say he accosted tomorrow kneel, and then shot her multiple times with a handgun before storming into that building and firing off more rounds. Three people killed including a twenty eight year old police officer who was responding to call of an active shooter e killed a pharmacy resident a police officer, and then himself too many doctors this wasn't just disturbing. This was a slap in the face because you see for years there's been this quiet stewing battle between scientists and the National Rifle Association, the NRA has discouraged them from treating gun deaths as. A public health crisis at times conservative politicians have actually barred them from researching it as one just a couple of weeks before this the NRA had blasted those voices on Twitter writing, quote, someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane. We'll hours after these medical professionals were killed at their own hospital is battle reignited in public and the last couple of days doctors have been rallying around this hashtag. This is Arlene. We've got one of those doctors joining us right now. Dr Stephanie Bonnie is a trauma surgeon in Newark, New Jersey, Dr Bonnie, thanks for being on with us. Thank you for having me. You know, I'm looking at the top of your Twitter page right now your pin. Tweet is a photo of a bloody surgery floor. Can you tell me about that photo? So that picture is actually a, you know, extracted taken it was, you know, in the back of my phone somewhere. I had taken it a while ago. I had lost this patient, and I've been up all night and felt really terrible. She had a nonce. Survivable injury in the whole situation was just so tragic, and this was a gunshot wound. Yes. So when are a posted that tweet, you know, I I thought it was I I mean are they kidding not my lane? Like, this is this is my highway. This is this is where I live every day. This is what I do every day. So why not show without looks? Like, this is what it looks like to be a doctor in America right now. For us in Newark gunshot wounds, specifically receive between five and six hundred and typical year. Got doctors across the country that have been posting photos like that one. So you tell the NRA this is your lane. But in what do you want? What is the goal here? I think it's pretty Davis to say who can and cannot have an opinion or say or a seat at the table when we have conversations they think that the when we talk about what it what does that mean? What is public health me? We'll immunes is a multidisciplinary effort. It involves people in medicine, but it also involves education involves criminal Justice and law and policy. So there are policies that can be put in place that can reduce death and disability from firearms injury. But there are also there's also messaging that can be done and deciding what those policies should be. I think are something that we as doctors have. An obligation based on the Hippocratic oath to say. This is what we see. But I do think the point the NRA was making here was was just because you treat something doesn't mean, you know, the public health policy that would prevent it. Right. Like, you you treat someone who dies of hypothermia cold weather. You don't know how to claim how to solve homelessness. Do you? Well, we. I guess I don't particularly treat cold weather. But there are other other injuries that we have we have been at the table with and talking. When you take the number of car fatalities per miles driven this has dramatically dropped in the last twenty to fifty years, and I'm not a policy expert. I'm not somebody who can comment on how or what the means would be to write a Bill or some kind of legislation that would limit assault rifles, for example, like the air fifteen, but what I can tell you is that an air fifteen is far more damaging a bullet than a handgun bullet. So to the extent that that is useful to the conversation. Then I belong at the table to say, hey, these bullets damage a lot more than a handgun bullet and people die from them because the organ damage that's inflicted by these is far and above worse than what we see with ordinary ammunition and rifles, and that's objectively true. Right. That is a fact, and that is the fact that the only people who can tell you. Are either surgeons or the corner? Guinness. We've seen no workplace. No gathering place is immune not even hospitals. We reached out to the NRA for the story. They did not respond. Dr bonnie. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And one last thing there were recalls where a company says this model of this product has a defect. And then there's this the urgent consumer warning tonight the CDC now telling Americans not to eat Romain lettuce in any form. We did it seem donate Romain lettuce anywhere. Like, they can do that in the US. So they've they've track their cases in the United States and they've actually been in conversation with Health Canada. And at this point since they don't know where it's being sourced from their issuing a very blanket. Widespread basically recall, it's Keith's Schneider. I'm a professor at the university of Florida Department of food science and human nutrition. And this is what happens when there's an outbreak linked to lettuce of E coli five seven eight seven, which is a particularly nasty bacteria that spread to thirty two cases over eleven states rather than take a chance that it's grown in your region. They're just recommending getting rid of all of it just to be safe, but tossing out every stock of romaine in every restaurant every grocery store every. Everywhere. That's intense. That's bigger than normal. I won't say extrordinary. I think it's a reaction to the outbreak that we had this summer. The CDC says twenty three more people in ten states have been sick. And since April twenty seven you remember this if you're lettuce came from Yuma, Arizona for a while, you were told the trash it. She can't just wash it off in many cases, these microorganisms of so small and they can get into tiny little pores within the leaf themselves. This strain can kill you too. He says don't mess with it. But you might need to change up your salads for a while the cases it citing are from October in Snyder says the CDC investigation could keep going while let us growers are sitting waiting praying that warning map will shrink. There are people in our control room right now who are not affected at all. They don't like lettuce. What is every day thanksgiving for you guys? You can start here. Tomorrow just hit. Subscribe. It'll make your life easier and you heard Rebecca Jarvis earlier. She and I are hosting a really cool. Black Friday episode later this week tomorrow thanksgiving we got some special plan for you as well. In the meantime for up to the second info, go to ABC, news dot com or the ABC News app. I'm Brad milkey tomorrow. Hey before we go. If you're looking for some strong journalism, you should really check out what our friends at KSL podcasts are doing with cold cold is this three year investigation into the disappearance of a missing mom, Susan Powell, and Dave Cawley is a reporter with KSL. He's shedding new light on this case. He has uncovered more than a dozen new recordings. He's got new details. It's just super engaging. So do yourself a favor. Subscribe to cold wherever you're listening right now.

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Monday, November 19: "Like Smoking 11 Cigarettes a Day"

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23:07 min | 2 years ago

Monday, November 19: "Like Smoking 11 Cigarettes a Day"

"It's Monday November nineteenth. You can't knock on someone's door to ask if they're okay if they don't have a door anymore. We start here. The death. Toll climbs in California. The number of missing skyrockets eight is a monumental effort. But it's also an urgent one family. Members are combing through tent cities to find their loved ones. We'll take you to one two votes have been counted. Finally, I was not victorious in this race. What is happening with those final congressional seats. And what it means for next time. And when Turkey made the claim the US did nothing now, it's the CIA. It will be hard to ignore this completely pool. President Trump side with on the murder of Jamal kashogi Saudi agencies or his own. From ABC news. This is start here. I'm Brad milkey. The damage was already indescribable by deaths by buildings lost the campfire in northern California was already the most destructive in state history. But as we talked to officials several of them said just wait this is not over the casualties. You're hearing about now those are just the ones who could be easily found and over the last few days as search teams got access to the decimated town of paradise and places nearby that death toll began to climb even higher. Twenty-five? People are now confirmed dead now forty four people are confirmed dead the number of dead making another jump their concerns here. Now, there could be over a hundred dead. They just don't know. Meanwhile, remember this entire town is still without their homes and not all of them are lucky enough to have a relative to crash with and as they figure out their next steps. Another number has grown distressingly large the number of people were just unaccounted for. Let's go to northern California where that fire is still burning ABC's, Marcus more is on the ground. And Marcus where are you right now? Hey, Brad, I am at a WalMart in Chico California, which is about an hour and a half or so north of Sacramento while you there what's going on there. Well, this is where a tent city popped up in the days following the campfire that they're ravaged of this part of the state dozens of people who many of them who lost their homes, and they didn't want to go to shelters in the area. They decided to get tents and have a set up in a in a field along the of the parking lot of of the WalMart here, a number of families and people have actually left to find more permanent housing. But there are still a number of people who are who are here. And there's also the concern about unsanitary conditions. We'll and yet Marcus early are heard you coughing quite a bit yet. What is it like for people that have been there on the ground for you? You just got in there awhile ago, and there have been people that have been dealing with that for for well over all week. Now, Brad it is it is almost. Unbearable? I it brings me back to when we cover the Thomas fire last year, those the the fire burning in the hills. But then you also have this cloud of smoke that is is really just choking the air, and as we flew into Sacramento, you could barely see the ground below. So that gives you an idea of how thick the smoke is. And we heard some information that there is so much smoke in the air. It's it's almost like smoking eleven cigarettes a day. Wow. So that gives you some perspective of how thick it is. So when we talk about the number of people missing, I know it was thirteen hundred last night. How many of them are just not returning phone calls, and how many of them do officials fear actually got caught in the flames? Well, we don't know Brad the exact number, but there are different scenarios. And I and I should point out that in speaking with authorities. They don't believe that the that the people who are considered unaccounted for right now that they're in endanger. But they just don't know. So there's situations where loved ones have have actually reported their relatives missing. Because they haven't heard from them. And so that person is considered missing police looking for them, and they can't find them or you have a another situation where someone has not been reported missing. But instead a level wants a welfare check. Well, there's no house, and there's been no accounting for where some of these people have gone, so they're just literally they're unaccounted for. But. You were talking about a staggering number and the search for people has happened at shelters, and so a thirties have been going to shelters and also to the tent city where I am and checking names and to see if that matches or they can match that against any of the names of people who who are missing, but it is a monumental effort. But it's also an urgent one. Although Marcus there is rain on the horizon. Right. So hopefully that will improve the air quality a little bit. There is rain on the way. But that also leads to concern here at the tent city where I am because it's in a flood plain the city officials have been urging people who have been staying here to to leave find some other place, a safer place to be when the rain comes. It's expected to be late Tuesday, but really on Wednesday and for the next several days following it's going to rain pretty heavily. They anticipate. So that will certainly at a whole new layer of. Concerns, including potential for months, lots. Oh, gosh. Yeah. It it's hard to imagine another natural disaster there. But you're absolutely right. The winter right after a fire is when Californians do get really nervous if they haven't already been affected Marcus be safe out there. Please. Thank you read. Absolutely good to be with you. A lot changes in a weekend. The last time we spoke we were all still waiting on concessions in races for the Florida governor's race. The Georgia governor's race in the Florida Senate race there were no concessions because in each case a democratic candidate was saying we are still waiting for every vote to be counted this weekend. No, the votes were counted enough of them at least to require those Democrats to act let's be clear. This is not a speech of concession on Friday. Stacey Abrams said it was inevitable, Republican Brian. Kemp would be declared Georgia's next governor. He'd avoided a runoff, but she refused to admit that she had actually lost the election on Saturday. Andrew gillum was more definitive are John. I wanted to take a moment to congratulate Mr. desanta STS on becoming the next governor of the great state of Florida with a machine recount finished in Florida. He recognized there were not enough votes out there to make a difference. But the tightest of all these. Was the Florida Senate race which was still tight enough for mandatory manual recount, there'd been plenty of frustration. Over the vote counting in Florida's larger counties like Broward and Palm Beach the accusations of fraud were never substantiated by evidence. But accusations of slowness and carelessness certainly were at the end of it. Although that manual recount finished on time and Bill Nelson conceded to his Republican challenger, Rick Scott, I was not victorious in this race. But I still wish to strongly reaffirm the cause for which we fought a public office is a public trust. And so this morning besides a runoff in Mississippi slanted for later this month, the twenty nine hundred Senate is set and the Republicans have added two more seats to their advantage. ABC's political director Rick Klein joins us now. And so Rick, I know the ra- ballots in certain counties where you actually couldn't see the Senate race as easily in those happen to be democratic leaning counties. What is the most significant thing we learned from Florida? Was it a political lesson? Or was it a vote counting lesson? I'll tell you talking to Democrats since the election. The Florida is the biggest disappointment to them a puzzle. Really they feel like they made such gains around the country, including in some battleground states, like some big states in the upper midwest, but Florida just be devil them once again and to be disappointed in both the governor's race and Senate race, they can blame ballot design Blaine what you want. But President Trump showed himself to be pretty popular there. There's an increasing number of Democrats who think it really may not be in play in in two thousand twenty that could just be sliding to the Republican side. Although Democrats do feel like they learned a lot of lessons about Florida. They think might be applicable for the presidential. Let me ask you about Georgia. Because in Florida, you got Andrew gillum saying, you know, I came up short. This was a long shot, but we did our best people around Stacey Abrams in Georgia are saying this race was stolen from us yesterday. She went on CNN herself and refused to call Brian. Kemp the legitimately elected governor of Georgia. I mean is this the race Democrats are gonna keep talking about for the fall? Owing weeks and months, I think George highlighted a whole range of issues regarding voter suppression. The fact that the secretary of state was also running for governor refused. The recused himself some new voter access laws. I don't think it's fair to say that the election was stolen. But I do think it's fair to argue for the democratic perspective that if everyone was given an equal chance to vote if if these new laws hadn't come into effect that made it a lot easier to remove particularly African American and first time voters from the roles could have been a more competitive race might've even gone to run off all of that is arguably true. I know that eight years of systemic disenfranchisement disinvestment and incompetence had its desired effect on the electoral process in Georgia. And I think for Democrats in Georgia. This is a fast changing state. They live for very excited about the fact that they have this potential first African American woman as a as a democratic candidate. They thought they can break through it is a bitter disappointment. But I think more so than the Florida disappointment. This one is instructive to Democrats and tells them they're going to have to start to work on the laws of voter access. If they're going to try to be competitive in a range of states, and I I do think the Abrahams campaign broke through in a way nationally, there's a lot of people didn't want, and I think the issues highlighted a may also breakthrough nationally and kind of energize some talk about voter turnout and voter registration and changing laws to allow more participation in that less. Yes. Ninety nine Senate seats down one more run off in Mississippi next week. We will check in with you. Then rick. Thank you. Thank you. Brad. Next up on start here. The president seems to trust the Saudis, but he also says he will not listen to the murder. They've admitted to. So if you're struggling to get a good night's sleep. Then maybe it's time to give the purple mattress a try. It's made out of this brand new material that's better than memory foam. It's breathable it sleeps cool, and it's got a zero gravity feel to it. You can try with its one hundred night risk free trial, and it's got free shipping and returns. Also, you'll get this free purple pillow when you purchase the purple mattress just by texting S H podcast two four seven four seven four seven. The only way to get the free pillow is if you text S H podcast two four seven four seven four seven that's S H P O D C AST two four seven four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply. The Saudi Arabian government said a lot of things since the Washington Post writer Jamal kashogi was murdered last month. They said it wasn't murder for a while. They said he wasn't even dead. Even though we now know a team of Saudis were sent to stable to kill him and dispose of his body, which by the way, still not been found. But one thing they have remained crystal clear on that the crown prince Mohammad bin Salman had nothing to do with this that he would never order an execution. Like this not in another country, not a legal resident of the United States his ally. A lot of outside observers though, have found that implausible, and now the CIA might be among them. And yet President Trump continues to signal he trust the Saudis, and so the question this morning is how long can that last ABC senior foreign correspondent, Ian panel joins us now, and Ian, President Trump even seems to have some of the evidence of this killing in his possession yet, Bradley. That's right. The president now for the first time admitting that the US has a secret recording. The murder of the Rhonda Jamal has Shoghi. We're going to come up with a report as to what we think the overall impact was and who caused it visits the first public knowledge, I think certainly by the president's the do have it, and that's it appears to detail the merger itself. Although interestingly he's saying that he hasn't listened to it. And he doesn't want to listen to it. Why would he not want to listen to it? I think because the contents of pretty gruesome, and that certainly watts the president said who speaking on Fox News. He was asked by the the Anka, why don't you want to hear it, sir? His answer was it's a suffering tape. It's a terrible tape. I've been fully briefed on it. There's no reason for me to hear it. But that doesn't necessarily tell us who ordered it though. The Washington Post is reporting that officials have now concluded it was Mohammed bin Salman. What would they be basing that on? This is interesting. This is the first thing to make clear his the local intelligence agencies makes assessments. There isn't here is a smoking gun. There's no proof absolute defacto proof of this was ordered by Muhammad bin Salman, but their assessments is that he probably ordered the killing that's based on a number of things. Firstly an intercepted phone call involving the crown prince's brother, who's the Saudi ambassador to Washington, essentially, encouraging Mr. has Shoghi to go to the comes in Turkey to collect these paperwork. He needed for his marriage the other evidence or the other suspicion is based on the phantom. We talked about this before this is an absolutist monarchical system in a system like that people generally do not on their own initiative. So that they're also kind of basing on that and saying look in them mind their assessments, it was the crown prince who actually ordered it. And that's now the impact up by members of congress from both sides. They don't get onto airplanes go to Turkey and chop up and the consulate. Who's a critic of the crown prince without the crown prince having known about it and sanctioned it. Well. Here's my question in. I mean, people have said President Trump does not trust the CIA, but that's not necessarily true. Right. I mean, he trusted them enough to conduct missions against ISIS in Africa. It was when you started talking about things like Russian election interference that he openly sided with Flammer Putin. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be is about convenience. I mean, how convenient would it be to ignore the right here? It will be hard to ignore. This completely the primacy of the economic relation this strategic relationship with Saudi Arabia should not be forgotten will the importance of trade on sales Trump human rights at sadly, the answer is probably yes. And so I think it's going to be very difficult balancing act. The more of this audio that becomes available. The more pressure that will be on the Trump administration to do. More than it has so far and all it's done. So far is sanctioned the group of individuals who are alleged to have been the killers one of the things that we shouldn't forget the president cooled the assessment premature be did say that would be a fresh assessment made public on Tuesday. The do I think that the president wants to hang the crown prince out to dry. That's what it looks like the moment. So many angles on the story. Ian, somehow you cover them all thank you. Thanks, brad. Remember earlier we were talking about the Republican victories in the Senate and some of these governors races. But take a look over the house. I grew up in Orange County, California and this weekend, we learned for the first time ever in the land of Nixon and Reagan every congressional seat. There will be blue next year. The democrat pickups have grown more lopsided in the last week there now at thirty seven seats and counting. So the question is what will these Democrats do with their new power and could they exercise their constitutional right to impeach the president will last night on a Guinea a new docu series premiered called the Clinton affair. It's about the Clinton impeachment. And it continues tonight at nine pm. We've got the director Blair foster here and Blair you're doing this project about norms being questioned an emboldened house with angry voters everyone's talking about sexual misconduct at dinner parties. All of a sudden like I got to imagine the current state of play came up. It's interesting. You know, they say past as prologue, and we really very quickly realize. That we were making series as much about today as we were at the events that happened then you have a president under investigation, which does I call it should never have taken place. It continues to go on you have a national discussion about sexual harassment. And you haven't really deeply partisan time the nineties is when I think partisanship search to really kind of ratchet. It's how this town is already like a pressure cooker and with all of congress about to return tomorrow, it can only become more. So when I guess you could make the argument that data impeachment affected. How Americans see the president and the presidency one of the lines. I really stuck with me. It was by journalists named Joe Klein who described President Clinton as immoral in his personal life, but imminently moral in his public life. And you know, the question that we were asking ourselves on this project is should we hold our elected officials to a higher standard than we hold ourselves. And I think we would like our elected officials to be moral in both their public. And private lives. Well, that's kind of at the center of the metoo movement. Isn't it? Whether you really can separate someone's private life from their professional life, especially if they're encouraging colleagues and subordinates to be part of their private lives. Monica Lewinsky spoke to you guys for about twenty hours. What have these last twelve thirteen months in like for her? You know, it's very interesting to go back and look at the reaction to win the story broke a, you know, immediately. She no one believed her at the beginning. They thought she was making it all up. She was a Stocker. And in fact, one news story compared her to Glenn Close from fatal attraction, and then she became this vixen seductress, and it really never seemed to occur to anyone that perhaps want it takes two people to participate in a relationship, and we should maybe question the president's actions as well. Well, she was a national pariah. Right. And specifically among Democrats does she feel like there's hypocrisy there. Does she feel indication? I didn't get a sense of her feeling vindicated in any way, shape or form. I get a sense of a woman that wants to. Live her life and has been tarred with this for for twenty years. Like, you know, a giant scarlet letter mortified afraid of what this was going to do to my family. And just you know, made a mistake that she deeply regrets and apologized for it's something that's going to be something that she'll live with for the rest of her life. Well, then that to this impeachment conversation. Do you think the Republicans of the nineteen nineties these Newt Gingrich Republicans would have any advice Democrats that that just swept to power? Well, one of the things that was I learned I learned so much on this project, you know, in one thousand nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight midterm elections. The Republicans actually take a real drubbing, and there is a genuine Blue Wave in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight which is the signal to politicians that they don't want the president impeach- and the Republicans move forward with it. Anyway, the other thing to keep in mind that I didn't realize impeachment is a deeply political act. It's not illegal act. You're not on trial in a court of law. It's a political act. And I think the political well has to be there to do it. Otherwise, I think if you move forward with an impeachment, and the political will isn't there? It's deeply damaging to the country. A lot of Democrats begging to pass some bills to two policies. But then you've got the other Democrats. Who ran on providing a real check on the White House and some investigations we will see what strategy wins here. In the meantime, Blair will look for the Clinton affair next episodes on agony tonight starting at nine pm. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much for having me on. And one last thing this just be clear. I mean, we didn't win enough yesterday. Our partners at ESPN reported that the Cleveland Browns who've recently fired their coach one to interview several replacements, but a source in the NFL offices told them one stuck out Condoleeza Rice. That's right. The former secretary of state under George W Bush. He's a huge football fan. She was actually part of the committee that selects the college football playoff teams. The Browns said, no, they aren't interviewing rice, they haven't actually considered her. But it raises the question when will we see a female head coach in the pros in just the last few years, we've seen a number of women higher to be decision-makers at the highest level of men's sports two years ago. Catherine Smith was hired by the Buffalo Bills becoming the first woman to work fulltime on an NFL coaching staff this year the Oakland Raiders hired twenty six year old Kelsey Martinez to be on their strength and conditioning staff and at forty Niners games. You will see Katie sours rocking the headset as an offensive assistant that doesn't even count. The number of women who are finding respect in pro basketball locker rooms, but still an assist. Is one thing a head coaching gig. Where wins and losses all rest on you were public perception can be fickle where you can get blamed for a players mistakes is another Condoleeza Rice. Meanwhile, says she will not be the first female head coach she says, she does not have enough experience. Plus even detractors would say with her pedigree. She shouldn't be setting her sights on running one team he should be eyeing a job as Commissioner. Right off you go live your best Monday start here. Tomorrow just hit. Subscribe. 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 Leonardo da Vinci and the mystery of the world's most expensive painting

Today in Focus

25:31 min | 10 months ago

Leonardo da Vinci and the mystery of the world's most expensive painting

"Today. The mysterious story of the world's most expensive painting. Ben, can you take us inside the auction room at Christie's seventeen? Two thousand seventeen. What happens? What's it like? So Ladies and gentlemen we move to the Leonardo Da Vinci the Salvator Mundi the masterpiece by Leonardo of Christ. The savior is something sexy about it, but also something perverted. Let us sort of. You know isn't there and the odd gaspar something reaches the stratospheric level two, hundred million is bid at two, hundred million. Two hundred million seems that they were quite a few bidders up to about two hundred and twenty million for the Leonardo. So you coming back in after two hundred and twenty million, they were just two bidders both anonymous both on the phone. One bidder was kind of. Normal he turned out to be the under the one. He didn't win for the other guy, his bidding it was off the map. Suddenly, he would lobby in ten million dollar increment I thought so. Three hundred million. Then, the next thing he would love in an eighteen million dollar increment I mean. Why overpay by eighteen million or something, and then the winning bid right? The bidding was at three, hundred, seventy, million, four, hundred, million dollars is the bid and the piece is. Sold With A painting that was thought to have been lost to history sold for more than any work of ever had at a public auction. But how? Ben Lewis is an art historian and has spent years trying to code this mystery. No one knew when the auction ended who the winning bidder was and is very unlikely that winning bidder wanted his identity to be outed. His book, the last Leonardo. Hours of interviews with people across the art world tells the story of a painting that may be a masterpiece. By Leonardo DA VINCI A two. Now it is the greatest guessing game in the art world today who bought Salvador Mundi Chris once say who the buyer is only saying that quote the bids came from all over the world that can from the Guardian I'm Rachel Humphries today in focus how the Salvator Mundi became the world's most expensive painting. So the savior of the world originally commissioned by a French King Louis the twelfth once owned by an English one Charles I is destined to find a new owner. Another question is whether it's a US buyer or someone from overseas. Most of the speculation is on foreign buyers today probably China or Asia. Somehow you know the name got out news either because people in Saudi Arabia were so amazed at what had happened. You know that insiders leaked the information or is because somebody you know in the American Intelligence Service was monitoring what Mohammed bin Salman was doing maybe some bloke at the FBI was the monitoring Mohammed bin Salman like this is so gross i. got a phone at the New York Times, anyway got out Mohammed, bin Salman, the de facto ruler Saudi Arabia. The the guardian of Mecca had bought. You know a very significant image of Jesus. Christ. Say Muhammad. Bin Salman obviously hasn't confirmed that he was the buyer it seems that an associate of his were sent to do the bidding day in November twenty seventeen. Why do you think bin Salman might have wanted the painting I mean is he known to be an art collector? I think Mohammed bin Salman thought he was buying the Mailman Eliezer and in a way it's a good bet if he. Put It in a museum in his kingdom or you put it in the Abbey Dhabi Louvre maybe people would flock to the Dhabi Louvre just like they flocked to the Louvre what do you think this purchase tells us about Abu Dhabi. In Saudi, Arabia tells us that they want US artists camouflage. Kings and Queens bought works have offer status and used to make themselves. Look look more glamorous but. Nowadays it's all that and it's also something else. I mean worse because is to distract us from everything else. They're doing to distract us from the liberals arrested his to distract us from the activists that they put in prison his distract us from all the human rights abuses that are listed in the. Guardian. Obviously saddened fronted the Salvator Mundi. What would I see what I be looking up? The full technical documentation of the restoration and all the photographs today with have not actually been publicly released. But if you're standing in front of what you would see is a bust portrait of Christ his right hand will be raised in blessing. His fingers crossed and I think fingers crossed his qua- significant symbol for this picture lots different ways like good luck or I'm. But anyway here it's like I'm blessing you crisis blessing you in the other hand he's holding this transparent orb right and this kind of picture it's called a Salvator Mundi. It's a picture for private devotion. It's like forty six centimeters high thirty, six centimeters long and Christ face wafts out you in this soft smokey look, which is you know Leonardo trademark style. It's Arto. The result is like a head that almost looks like an apparition. These painted by probably the most famous in the World Leonardo Da Vinci which most people think familiar with but was he? Delivered between fourteen, fifty to fifteen nineteen. And Leonardo is known delicacy and His grace and his fusion of naturalism and idealism. Do we know how many paintings produced in his lifetime there're a maximum of twenty surviving paintings by Leonardo and fourteen of those are widely agreed to be Leonardo's I think you can whittle it down to nine. If you're really really fussy let's just say they're fourteen bona fide a universally agreed Leonardo's surviving in the world today and let me tell you how little at is do you know how many pictures surviving pictures we have by Rafael now two hundred. Okay. Wow. Why is that? Because Leonardo spent a Lotta time conducting his scientific studies and he also took a long time to paint his pictures You know he wasn't particularly keen on painting. You know he he got bored. He left a Lotta pictures unfinished. It's a famous quote by Leonardo Laboratory Causa Mentally, which is basically painting is all in the mind that sounds like a great excuse for not doing any work doesn't it? You know how he worked Arthur became famous. He would Sydney studio producing a prototype sort of master picture of something like the Mona Leeza or the Virgin and child with Santan why he was making his cartoon or he's sort of prototype his assistants were busy making copies that were then sold questioned with the Salvator Mundi painting. Is is that Leonardo's prototype or is it just another copy? that. Discovers the Salvator Mundi and where did they find it? These two dealers Robert Simon and Alex parish. They found the Salvator Mundi at an obscure auction house in New Orleans the painting turned up in an auction in New Orleans Louisiana in April two, thousand five. It was a picture in a minor auction house and one that that I spotted in the catalog together with a colleague of mine. Alexandra. Perish. That's such a good chalk and cheese couple or partnership I should say robot Simon's like you know quiet ever die bit strategic diplomatic careful Alex parishes like Indiana Jones. He's intrepid explorer his get his hands dirty finding pictures you know amazing guy. He knows when the Internet came along, he was smart enough to develop this his own database of auction houses. It might have pictures of interested to make sure they send him the electronic catalog or their newsletters or whatever, and he says he's to spend ten hours a day. Click Click Click clicking he said there was no picture That was for sale anywhere in America that I didn't know about that was my emission one day Alex, Perez Click Click, click, and he found the Salvator Mundi item six, six, four in know sent Chelsea Gallery New Orleans Estate Sale. You know actually if you're a dealer and you see a salvator, Mundi you kind of know there are lots of versions of it. You know that's well known. You know that Leonardo might have painted the original so is offered only Alex spotted his picture and that when it was auctioned, he was possibly the. Only bidder it was estimated only one, thousand, two, hundred to one, thousand, eight, hundred dollars. It's like nuts and what year was this this was two thousand and five he rings it rings out Robert Simon says, will you go with me on this? So he could import the Salvator Mundi for under six hundred bucks in two thousand and five neither of them went to New Orleans all done on the Internet and the phone and Robert Simon. Acts parents have been going around telling everybody that they paid around ten thousand dollars for it but. You would wouldn't you know you wouldn't say she paid just less than six hundred dollars each for what was thought at the time is. Not Going to say a Leonardo for half the price of iphone you. But, the painting that turns up when it sent to them from the the auction house, what does it look like stage? It looked like a work by a follower of Leonardo Da Vinci of the Salvator Mundi it was badly overpainted the first known photograph of this picture dates from nine, hundred, Ninety, seven to nine, hundred, Ninety, eight when it was in the cook collection and you can see in that picture that. Had A very odd face job that picture I mean Christ seems to have a moustache and. Droopy Like. He's really stoned and he saw looks like a Mexican from a sort of you know surgery fifties Western but the hand didn't have over paint on it and the hand looked very good. I mean that's pound. No the blessing had incredibly good and that's what drew Alex Parishes attention to it. So by the time, Alex Pasha Robert Simon, get the painting they're pretty convinced by the hand that this is a genuine painting by Leonardo Da Vinci no I do think. So that's not how they. Felt. They could see the blessing has really good but they had no idea whether it was a Leonardo or not. They thought it was period, which means it could be a by Leonardo be a sort of collaboration between Leonardo in his workshop a designed by Leonardo painted by an Assistant Leonardo finished off or it could be something painted entirely by one of Leonardo's assistance or followers based on a design or drawing that Leonardo had in his studio, which means it could have been painted you know. When Leonardo is alive or twenty years after he was dead, the Salvator Mundi belongs in one of those three boxes. Say He Alex, Parish Robert Simon get? To, restore the painting. Relate. went to am Diane Modest Dini who is a very, very highly regarded restorer who'd restored scores of paintings for the Kress collection for museums in America. We touching the picture. Studying. There were a lot of changes penalty of a major soit which had already been exposed. Is that a point to which a painting is restored so much the moves away from being the original animal. Republican is there no hardened false rules right The other problem that you have to bear in mind desires spectrum right with restoration at one end and forgery at the other. You you think that affords painted out of thin air, a blank canvas or wooden boss something up. No. A lot of forgeries you know a painted on really old pieces of wood and allow them are painted on top of second-rate pictures. So this is a picture is kind of up cycled you know or cooked. You know there's a bit of restoration. That's fine. Okay. You have you have holes in pictures. You Know Mo- most when you go into the National Gallery, we're GONNA to any museum most pictures much more damage than you think they are. So it's kind of okay to fill in the gaps between things like you know what's on either side see fill in the gaps that's called in painting or bridging in, but it's more difficult. If you come to the picture, you know the Salvator Mundi, all is the mouth where it so badly damaged you don't really know what was there to start with what do you do then who for? Some people in the art world, it's fine to make it look as good as new on best guesswork fine. You're an expert story. You got plenty of experience. You know you've studied renaissance painting and Leonardo's for decades do your best because we know that some of these other bits are really good. So you can kind of make up the rest as best you can. But for other people, you know that's an anathema and one of the dilemmas of this painting right is it's really very oh, caterers tour a picture like that. If it's a market restoration, right? If you're selling the picture if you're a dealer or private collector that's. Not. Okay in the modern age to restore a picture like that if you're a museum and the dialing for. Herself to Mundi is it it's a market restoration of a museum painting. The National Gallery in London took an interest in this painting for not coming in the inaudible exhibition. One of us, the National Gary Very hard indeed about including the Salvator Mundi Exhibition. Overseas, a picture just been attributed to Leonardo. It's in in private hands. We felt in the end that the case for its attribution to Leonardo was sufficiently strong for this to be the moment where we would put it together with other words to see how people felt but rather extraordinary meeting took place. Didn't it in London before that? What happened at that meeting? At the National Gallery Director, Nicholas Penny and curator. Luke's Eisenhower organizing a Leonardo Exhibition. They saw the picture in New York they liked it. They thought it was a Leonardo. They wanted to put it in their Leonardo show, which was going to take place in three years time are they knew they couldn't do it by themselves that would be to say their solution was to basically convene a High Council of the world's five. Greatest. Leninists Leonardo specialist to look at the picture in the national. Gallery's Restoration Studios Conservation Studios in London in the meeting of the Leonard meeting, and that took place in May two, thousand eight behind closed doors. Luke size came out of the meeting and told Nicholas Penny that everyone agreed that it was a Leonardo or they some people did were concerned that Leonardo's assistance might have painted part of the picture notice no blurred line. I mean the whole thing the whole. subtexts here is less just forget about the Leonardo Plus Workshop Category, and let's just call everything that might be Leonardo workshop. And then the. Is Leonardo Viennese quite basic, right. So there was some people at that meeting. He did think it was a Leonardo and others by the art historian common bombeck who would not so confident. She said I don't think this is a Leonardo Davinci I think is I think it's a bowl traff yoke one of his assistants that Leonardo finished it off. Did you go to the exhibition? You remember even Salvator Mundi there dude, what do you make of it? I didn't hear the music of the spheres you know I mean. I think. I can't pretend that I'm expert art historian much more the Guy. Who tells the story of the story? So I I looked at it and Thought Yeah it's okay. It looks a bit odd as an he's got a kind of froggy face, but it's got that sort of ethereal. Leonardo. Feel about it hasn't it. Feels authentic. Okay. Not Really I mean once just left in I want just left feeling ambivalent towards it. The exhibition takes place in London Two Thousand and eleven and it was hugely popular lots of people saw the painting. Last queuing one o'clock this morning. I think there seven hundred when we got here. Is a massive people, but they all seem perfectly happy to. Better in a cold, it was worth lack of sleep. Piece of history in the making. then. After that, you might presume the the painting would be worth a lot and lots of private buyers we wanted to get their hands on it was that the case knows quite difficult to set after twenty eleven. Really. Robert Simul suggest you. That's because he put such a high price tag on it. How much did he? Twenty? Two, two, hundred, million oh okay. Nobody made an offer navy said, how much will you take for this because? It's too damaged. Do you want to pick to that damage in your collection? How are you? GonNa Label it Leonardo question-mark plus workshop question mark plus was it's just too tricky for Western Museum. Coming up. Salvator. Mundi finds a buyer. What's the best mattress for you? If you're an egg or a kitten check out the competition. But if you're a human person, put your body on nectar mattress as well as award-winning layers of comfort, you can sleep easy knowing you got incredible value mattresses start at just four, hundred, ninety, nine dollars, and she get hundreds of dollars in accessories thrown in as well as a three, hundred, sixty, five night home trial and a forever warranty. Go to necker sleep. Dot. com. D-. And then somebody does actually decide to buy a Russian businessman. He we see and how does he fit into this story? The picture was in the doldrums nobody seemed to want to buy it, and then along comes to meet favorable of. Shania Google in Chester. Thurston. Dmitri Rivoli have made a fortune in the potash business in Russia. He's got six billion in the bank. What does he do? He decided to build a bespoke collection of the world's greatest paintings. It's like Modigliani it's Picasso. It's Monet. It's Renoir. You know it's basically now that's what I call hard for you. Can scenarious and Alex Berenson Robert Simon and trying to sell the Salvator Mundi they write to Dmitry. Rybolovlev he says, Oh, I'm interested then he asked his dealer the Tasneem bought he's bought all these pictures of EPA Shall I buy it or not? EPA says M- I don't know. But Dmitry Rybolovlev says now feel something with his picture. Yves Bouvier Hammers Robert Simon and Alex parish down to a price of eighty million dollars, which is actually sixty, eight, million in cash and old. Picasso apparently worth twelve million God must be so annoying when you hope to get two, hundred million. Eighty. They were desperate to sell it twenty four hours later, Bouvier had sold it to Dmitri Ivanov live one hundred and twenty seven point five, million dollars very smart. So eventually let finds out, he's been overcharged offer the Salvator Mundi and around thirty five other paintings and they don't use another lawsuit against these are all lawsuits against bovi launches. Another lawsuit against Salve Abe's he claims were in on it and we're helping overcharge him I. mean those those seats have beginning of for years. Now have they eventually become known as the Bouvier affair with this art dealer facing criminal charges for money laundering and fraud in several countries via denies any wrongdoing and Monica has recently dismissed ribble of lives claim against him. So I imagine after all this real might not have such a good feeling about the Salvator Mundi anymore. When he told me that that he still loved art but he fell after this Salvator Mundi. Sorry. He couldn't really look at his paintings the same way again. And he started to put them on the market. The Salvator Mundi sold for three times. What he paid for it say he was the person he sold it through Christie's ruble of made the decision to consign the painting to Christie's and that brought us to lot nine bay when it goes to auction at Christie's a Christie's said that this is a genuine Leonardo Christie's pretend to. Catalog in a way based on the National Gallery's catalog and inverted commerce research into the Salvator Mundi that was in a way even on its own terms contradictory because as I said a bit at the beginning where it of says, probably in the collection of Francis, I probably brought over to Britain by Princess. Henrietta Maria who married shells I probably in the collection neutral probably in the. Shells a second anyway, and so it goes on. It starts the probably starts become indisputable. It's the world's most expensive painting. But you're not convinced that this as a genuine Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Roy now I'm hiding behind it might be, but we don't know yet. So I. I. Know that's a cop out because actually meant to say I think it's this or I think is that I think you know I think in the age of fake news and Post Truth, it's important to say no clear argument has been presented that this is a Leonardo Da Vinci but it might be I think is very unlikely to be Leonardo is just too weird. You know it's almost certainly a work by assistant that so badly damaged and so much of the face has been worn away. Somebody's damage part that the picture looks more Leonardo than it actually is after Mohammed bin Salman bought that painting disappeared from public view. It was reported that have been installed a have been salmon's your. The world's most expensive work of art is said to have resurfaced after its whereabouts unknown for eighteen months. Art Net Dot Com has Leonardo Davinci's salvator. Mundi on a super yacht owners by Saudi Crown Mohammad bin Salman the five hundred. Alex Parish Simon, and so the leonardus might be worried that this very valuable painting is bobbing around on a yacht somewhere. I think everyone will be very, very worried that if this painting was bobbing around on your, you turn one that Patia in a damn. INT- I. Mean I'm sure Mohammed bin Salman is really great. Air Conditioning on is your but still. I would question if that was a good idea. But know the yacht is only a theory. Nobody knows where this picture is. Right? Nobody knows my best guess is that it's in a lockup in. Switzerland in Geneva freeport. Have we ever gonNA say again could the public ever see Southam Mundi? Again, I, I'm not a prophet. Let me gaze into my crystal. Tell you what will happen in the future as regards Salvator Mundi just I might end with all my face I'm GONNA. Say I think we're not gonNA see this help to Mundi for another fifty years. K. Ben, thank you very much. Thank you very much. That Ben Lewis his book. The last Leonardo is available to buy now and is a very good read. We contacted Christie's about this episode and a spokesperson told us the attribution to Leonardo was established ten years prior to the sale by a panel of a dozen scholars head of its unveiling as part of the National Gallery Exhibition and was reconfirmed at the time of Sao. In two thousand seventeen. while. We recognize that this painting is a subject of enormous public opinion. No new discussion speculation since the twenty seventeen sale at Christie's caused us to revisit its position. They said they wouldn't comment on whether Mohammed bin Salman was the buyers the painting. We also contacted Sotheby's who didn't provide us with a statement. Today's episode was a huge team effort and pass three nearly as many homes as the Salvator Mundi it was produced by cheek as Elizabeth Casson, Hannah more and SOM- Colbert. Sound design was by Axel Cookie Ta. The executive producers, I feel made odds and Nicole Jackson. Will Be. Back tomorrow.

Leonardo Salvator Mundi Salvator Mundi Leonardo Salvator Mundi Leonardo Leonardo Christie Leonardo Da Vinci Leonardo Da Vinci Salvator Mundi Bin Salman Leonardo DA World Leonardo Da Vinci Salvator Mundi Exhibition Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Roy Robert Simon Mohammed Leonardo workshop Leonardo Viennese Salvador Mundi Chris
Dissecting the Actions of Mohammad bin Salman | Damage Control (Ep. 543)

Channel 33

42:19 min | 2 years ago

Dissecting the Actions of Mohammad bin Salman | Damage Control (Ep. 543)

"Hey guys this Sean fantasy. I'm the editor in chief of the ringer and host of the big picture podcast. Oscar season is ramping up. And so is the big picture. That's why we're moving out of channel thirty three and into our own feed. We're going to keep bringing you more banter about this year's Oscar contenders and more deep conversations with the filmmakers behind them. So to hear more from your favorite directors and the movie obsessed staff of the ringer subscribed to the big picture on apple Spotify. Wherever you get your podcasts. I'm just in charity. I'm qena. Welcome to damage control on the channel thirty three network a podcast where we impact with upsets excites and divides us in popular culture. So let's get started. This is a tough week and a lot of respects the Saudis and murdered a Washington Post columnist weeks ago, the Turks are easing hell response. But so far the Trump administration seems to be standing quietly by the Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman, we're going to talk about his strange sorted role in this emerging diplomatic crisis. But first there's a developing new story that we're going to talk about there might be new information coming out after we record this podcast. What we do know right now is that someone tried to kill billionaire liberal donor. George Soros with the pipe bomb, and then pipe bombs and explosives were sent to the Clintons for President Obama CNN headquarters in New York and a variety of other liberal figures as of right now, we don't know who is responsible or what their motivations are. But. Many of the people who were sent bombs are primary targets have right wing extremists anger, and we're going to talk about how these assassination attempts fit into the current domestic terrorism situation. Okay. So just to recap what we know right now yesterday a pipe bomb was discovered it. George shores is home today. News broke that someone or a group of people have tried to kill many many prominent political figures so explosives were sent to for President Obama the home of Bill and Hillary Clinton the headquarters of CNN, the headquarters of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, recently, there have been reports that bomb may have been sent to call a Harris's office. That's what we know. Right now, there might be more. But basically the point is that there there's obviously Arash of attempted assassinations. No one has been harmed. But these attempted murders of extremely powerful. Influential people are extremely disturbing. It's also kind of leaving us at a loss. Because right now, we don't know who did this the facts just aren't available. We don't know if they have a coherent political ideology, we don't know if they're aligned with any foreigner domestic terrorist groups, it's just like too soon to know these things, but it's really really tempting to assume it was right wing extremists because the Clintons Obama shorts and CNN are all regularly subjects of conspiracy theories about a global cabal trying to destroy America. The New York Times reported today that the attempt about him being have sparked an investigation into whether a bomber is going after targets that have often been the subject of right wing. I r- there's a lot of unknowns right now, we can't save her certain who did this. But it is important to note that the far right wing media has. Already started its own narrative. And that is that these bombs are false flag operations, Alex Jones. And Rush Limbaugh have also have both claimed already that Democrats are behind the bombs in an effort to sway the midterms their way, even though there's no actual information about what's going on. There's already this misinformation campaign happening, which is sort of very two thousand eight right? It's like people treating it. Like this weird fake strategy game. Where it's again, people are I mean, people are literally drafting talking points about a series of assassination attempts. They're trying to turn them into cable news style talking points of like, actually, the Democrats did the, and it's it's it's given how this story has been developing in the past twelve hours how rapidly it's been developing, and how exponentially even orbit it is it is. Uncanny to watch that happen. It's in Canaan. You watch the political discourse half to engage with it in these electioneering terms. I feel really overwhelmed because like when we we were initially just going to talk about the showroom pipe bomb. And you know, he is a really interesting figure so he is a bit less well known than than the rest of the people who've been sent bombs if you're not familiar with him. He is a extremely rich, man. He's a Hungarian man who made his money in hedge funds, and has sort of become a really really prominent donor to progressive political causes in the US and internationally, and because of that he sort of become a really big focal point for conspiracy theories that sort of paint him as a puppet master of a sort of like global attempts to like reshape the world, and he's been sort of he's been portrayed like that for a while. While and I think that his inclusion in these bombings sort of is the most compelling evidence that there's some sort of. Right wing vision. Right. Yeah. Originally yesterday, right? So Tuesday of this week Soros was the only attempt that we knew about he was the first one. And so the fact that it's specially in the past month Soros has been the subject. I mean, this is true Soros, always like in this the past decades of change. But specifically in the past month on the eve of the midterm elections Soros has been the subject of right wing scrutiny, including scrutiny from Trump himself about you know, is Soros. The one bankrolling beta work in Texas is you know, Soros fund, you know, Soros's funding, the socialist and tika almost lapsing to Alex Jones voices. I say all of this. Because basically, George Soros is who Alex Jones is talking about when our exchanges rants about the globalist. What I mean, and he has been, sir. Sort of the boogeyman for a lot of like Donald Trump himself. Recently blamed showrooms for anti Kevin up protests, like Trump has directly fed this conspiracy theory, and he's not the only one like Senator Chuck Grassley also said he believed that was like behind this, quote unquote, paid protester situation, sir. Trump has sort of explicitly indirectly supported this conspiracy theory, not just supported it as a conspiracy theory, but supported it as a point of rage and mobilization for right wing figures and right wing activists than just like. Conservative people in America. Yes. So it's incredibly tempting to just assume that this is a this is like a right-wing nutjob, right? It's weird to me. How the fact that now today on Wednesday these democratic politicians in Trump critics including John Brennan who is who. That's who the person was trying to target by sending the pipe bomb or sending explosives to CNN. They were trying to target John Brennan and John Brennan is the one who say head who had a falling out with Trump in who Trump revoked his security clearance about a month or so ago. Yeah. The fact that those politicians were also the subjects of these attacks actually makes it more complicated to think about what's going on here. Just because you go from Soros being one guy who we know for fact, just like uniquely the subject of right wing. I r- to just abroad slate of liberal, but prominent powerful people who lots of people can have lots of reasons for trying to target. You know what I mean? Like, it's weird to think of how many times the Pentagon and the White House have been the subject of anthrax and rice in and explosives in envelopes. I mean race it was just sent to Trump in the Pentagon. And like that's why I think it's really as much as it's tempting to sort of say oh God. This is definitely right wing extremists. I don't wanna do that. Because they're just been so many historical examples. Of just people who don't have an ideology in are just wanting to murder people sending bombs out like there were bomb threats to Jewish centers after the election, and it was. Mentally ill teenager wasn't anything organized. So I don't want to. I don't want to like pretend that I know who did this even though I I have suspicion. Well, let's talk about that though. Like, why do we I think there's something about? There is very certainly something about the current political climate. That makes it really tempting and feel it makes it really tempting to do that this is right wing terrorism. Yeah. Like, real talk. And again, we can we can set all sorts of counter examples for for saying, hey, let's let out a little bit, and they actually sort through it's happening and see who the news reports on actually having done this. I just think that the country is so on edge and part of that is okay what we're two weeks out from a midterm election. Right. That's a pretty boring conventional reason. But then I think the other half of it really is that like, I think post Trump the American imagination has a very different sense of our own capacity for political violence. You know, it feels like the nineteen sixties away that no other decade since the nineteen sixties has felt like yeah. I was thinking about how it sort of. Call back to the late sixties and seventies where there was a ton of bombings going on all across the states from various radical groups, a lot of left-wing radical groups back then, but one thing that I think is happening now that's really messed up is that already while most people are sort of holding off until we find out what happened. There's already this huge push of the false flag narrative from the right wing media. I mean, I think that's interesting because that is actually a very common, and at this point programmatic response that the right wing has to anything like the fact that whether you're talking about a school shooting or you're talking about pipebombs being sent to all of these high level politicians. The fact that the definitive reflecting talking point for any violence of a certain stature. In America is false flag. False flag that phenomenon is just strange, and I just don't know where to begin to unpack that. Literally is a sort of impulse that people on the far, right? Have for talking about murders. Extrajudicial killings in America is somewhere in a basement a secret cabal Democrats got together and decided to kill children or like Barack Obama. Yeah. In this case the themselves. Yeah. And it's just this information could have incited these attacks. And now disinformation is warping. What happened there? There's people out there who are understanding these events in like such a skewed way. I think that the perverse thing is that. They're people right there right wing people there Alex Jones's who their first response to this is how can we ju jitsu this again these attacks till like help encourage turn out among Republicans on November. Like, that's that's literally a way that people with not just random people on the internet. We're not talking about like egg with eighty six followers. We're talking about prominent right wing figures with huge platforms like their way of processing this is to think about voter turnout in two weeks among the voting base that his in even aligned with the people who are just the subject of these attacks. Like that's something about that. That's like a -standingly in human. I know I went to the info wars site today to see what Alex Jones saying. And yeah who is like false flag. Democrats are just trying to fix the midterms. I guess it's good that he doesn't have his social media platforms anymore. But this has been interesting to watch unfold because just this week there. There've been a lot of parallels drawn between left wing protests where are not even left wing just like liberal or anti GOP when prominent like Republican politicians get heckled at restaurants. There have been some parallels drawn between that behavior and then much more serious threats violence, and I just think that this today makes any parallels. Look, really, really foolish. Yeah. You know? I was recently watching did you watch the Ted Cruz. Bitta orc debate last week. No, I just I just like looked at the summaries afterwards. I can't bear to watch Ted Cruz Spey. I can't either. But I was ready to go. The. Choice. There was one. There's one line in the debate were Ted Cruz is you know, he's playing he's hamming up the whole cavenaugh like look at these liberals they're out of control or out of their minds. And there's a line where he started talking about the left. He has the left-wing mobs beating on the doors of supreme court. And I just I heard that line of like, do you realize that there was a right wing rally in Charlottesville where a right wing mob murdered a woman broad daylight on camera and your your point of comparison for that is protesters in DC knocking on the door this premium court. Yeah, there's just a, you know, there is a profound moral relativism in the Republican party, and in in within American conservatism that just makes incidents like this so maddening to engage with you made the point right of like if you go back to the nineteen sixties. Nineteen seventies. That's it of where you'll find the left-wing analog for some of this stuff. But I think if you limit yourself to the president contemporary context. I just I think that the context for what what we think of is right wing violence versus left wing violence. They're not really the the not really similar, and I think that's the context that makes it difficult to resist certain readings of of these explosives being sent around to liberal politicians. Yeah. Is this is the thing that a lot of people. I think are thinking like this is what the right wing does. Now. I think that the political spectrum has really changed and the right has gone so far further into extremism that it's it is hard to compare the two they're not. I mean, they don't line up neatly. Because now there's this whole ecosystem of of media trying to spin what's happening in like away. That's completely divorced from reality right way. And maybe like some of the most. More crazy weatherman had those thoughts back in the day. But they didn't have a really good platform to disseminate them like the internet. I think has a celery David the tilt towards extremism, and like the ability to to get that message out there. Yeah. I definitely think social media has made it easy to be fringe and popular all at once. Because it's just like, even if you're fringe, everyone on your fringe knows where you are. You think you have a bat signal in a way that like you might be fringed? But every fringe person who agrees with you in America is following your Twitter feed, the Arno margins it feels like there are no margins in American political life anymore. It feels like no matter where you fall on the spectrum that you're referring to you are represented somewhat prominently in. The the present discourse and in the political climate, especially if you're an angry political faction, it's hard to process a lot of this working like you said it's like we're working in a vacuum of information. But it's not like that. Vacuum information is going to be filled with okay, the police are going to tell us this. That's not the only thing that's going to be filled with vacuums also going to be filled with Alex Jones. And so then you're just we're forced to contest with Alex Jones account of events. Yeah. And I'll Jones is going to be faster than the FBI. In terms of telling us, quote unquote was going on. Yeah. I'm just curious whether the Trump White House will ever take right wing extremism seriously. Oh, I think it's just really hard to grapple with the feeling that I have that this threat will not be ever taken seriously because it's a lot of these extremists are are propping up the administration. There's a point at which for Trump if you start alienating the there's basically difference between alienating. Like violent right wing extremists and alien eating. Nonviolent hardcore Republicans like once you start to discourage one you start to discourage the other necessarily, and so I think Trump I think it's for Trump. It's like a combination of the fact that he's a troll himself. He's just a troll and to he just recognizes that he recognizes that violent right wing extremism and violent right wing extremism are for his purposes. Indistinguishable in terms of like morale, and in terms of how do I encourage people to support my political movement and turn out to vote at elections and keep my party in power during Charlottesville. That's definitely what I thought his hedging his hedging about there being bad people on both sides and good people on both sides. I don't think it was him. Trying to say I'm glad that Heather Heyer was killed. I think what he was trying to do was stopped short of making his most diehard supporters feel like they were. On the same page is him. And I think that calculus is why don't think that anybody outside of his base can turn Trump in a moment. Like this and expect any sort of coherent ethical leadership. I don't even think he has the capacity to offer coherent ethical leadership. Right. I'm glad none of the attempts were successful. As far as we know. 'cause fires. We know thirty six PM eastern standard time on Wednesday. Should we talk about an assassination attempt was successful? No. I mean, we should talk about it. But it's it's it's a mile even more dark. The conversation. We've just had but find a we'll find a funny story for next time. Maybe unfortunately, Kate. It's been twenty two days since Jamal kashogi disappeared. Saudi Arabia has all but it mid that Saudi agents assassinated, the Washington Post columnist, but they're characterizing it as an interrogation fistfight situation gone wrong as opposed to an officially sanctioned assassination. So now, it's up to the United States and other nations other western nations and also Turkey decide how they want to respond. But let's let's break down the time line a little bit. Just because I think a big part of this story is not just the fact that the Saudis assassinated journalist, but the way in which the assassination has come to light and played out as a sort of diplomatic fiasco in the past couple of weeks. So kashogi goes missing on October second. That's when he's last seen entering the Saudi consulate. And is then bull days later Turkey starts, you know, the Turkish government starts leaking reports through the press that this Audis killed kashogi in the consulate the earliest report suggests that they not only killed kashogi, but the hacked his body up with a bone saw and smoke on them out of the consulate boxes. It's like the most sopranos style. Execution of ever heard of in the Saudis deny this. Yeah, they deny it very sort of like melodramatically, they say that only that that I, but they say we're going to let the Turkish authorities searched the consulate which is their own sovereign soil. They offer to form a joint investigation with the Turkish government. And then Donald Trump, meanwhile ways in say, he has no idea what's going on. I think he floated the idea that there were rogue it was a right right assassination. And so in the middle of all this you have the Saudi Crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman hosting and investors conference in Riyadh. Dav o of the desert cold, right? And the thing about this conference is that you have a lot of westerners. You have a lot of like American senior officials and a lot of business leaders scheduled to attend. Now. These revelations about kashogi being killed in the consulate. Coming to light. It's creating this very bad political situation, the Washington Post specifically is running a lot of hardcore coverage of this whole plot. And they're sort of I I would say the Washington coast becomes the leader of the effort to get. I mean, they're journalists yet murder. Yes. Fucking crazy. And they're the ones that of leading the effort to say, hey, like the US needs to rethink its relationship with Saudi Arabia. So the senior American officials pull out of the conference in Riyadh. You have. You know, they're Merican media and business partners start to plow the conference, but the conference goes for anyway, it's just they're less Americans there in Riyadh at the moment and very gradually Turkey has revealed that it's intelligence agencies have audio recording of Cooke's death like in keep in mind, the Saudis the whole time at tried to deny that they killed him. They actually insisted that kashogi left the consulate alive that he walked out and Turkey. This whole time is like listening to Saudi Arabia revise it story. And every time they do they mmediately have a piece of evidence contradicting with the Saudis just said, and like I said very gradually becomes apparent that? The Turks just have the audio of show death, and that's been stringing the Saudis along instead of letting them dig a hole for themselves in in terms of like embarrassing themselves and making themselves look not credible. When accounting for what happened here, and that's really wild. Because basically, I assume it would take a lot for Turkey to admit that it was spying when Saadi right? It makes it clear how how important this assassination is right. What also makes it clear how bad the Turkish Saudi relationship is. But we can get into that. There's a lot of context for this. And I. Think what we wanna do here is it of talk through the various parties to this diplomatic crisis. That have I just think such conflicting stakes in. This Audis accounting for the fact that the murdered a Washington Post columnist, and are just sort of gas lighting the rest of the world about what happened despite the fact that there is a parent -ly audio evidence of the fact that eighteen Saudi agents went to extend bowl to murder this guy. So I talk about kashogi first-rate, so he operated guy. Yeah. You were recently telling me that you are reading a book about the Saudi regime, and he was a prominent figure, right? What? Yeah. I was reading Robert Lacey's inside the kingdom link actually. Right. When the story happened happened to be reading that book. And yeah, it's it's if you read coverage now of all of this kashogi the times is characterized as a dissident. Yeah. Definite. That's definitely how he's being characterized. And it's not that's a bit the characterization. I'll say lacks nuance. Like really Shoghi is. A guy who has ties to the Royal family, and it has at earlier parts in his career had a very close relationship personally and professionally with the Royal family look at times he's been like a spokesman for the the Saudi Royal family. Another thing that I think hasn't really gotten a lot of attention is just you know, he's he's being portrayed as a as a dissident journalist. He also was like as you're saying really close ties with the Saudi family. He comes from one of the wealthiest families in the world. This isn't some random guy. He is right. Fucking rich. And he like he's cousins of Doti fed. He's an establishment figure like he he was in elite. He's just the non-royal. Yeah. He is. He is an elite dissident. This is like this is another reason why this is such a big deal. Right. And it's like the Anderson Cooper of Saudi Arabia. That's a good way of Saudi Arabia. I don't like that. Actually. I haven't read that. No that that's like a. Yeah. I it's we're not saying this to sit of mitigate or questioning journalism. It's just important to understand that because show us close at one point to the Saudi Royal family to maybe better understand why this all ends with mouth had been some and killing him or having him killed or someone in Riyadh having him killed because this isn't a case where it's just like, oh, this this random Washington Post columnists is Saudi and they don't like that. He's publishing bad things about Saudi Arabia or critical things about the house of side in America. So they killed this guy. Like it's deeper than that because his relationship with this out Royal family is deeper than. Yeah. So then we'll we don't really know much about the people who who bone Saad him except that they clearly watch the sopranos. Let's talk about NBS. Okay. So the Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman, he's basically he is the effective. I mean, there's King Solomon. What's his deal is he just sold? Yeah. And NBA, you know, it's like NBS is first in line for the throne. And he is the charismatic leader of Saudi Arabia at the moment. And he's remarkable. Because I mean, I don't know if you remember this fees about a couple years ago in western press, like the Atlantic in the New York Times in the New Yorker wasn't. He like on the cover of time magazine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. M B S was basically doing this press. Run of like, hey, I'm the young and leader. I'm not your normal. Saudi arabia. I'm cool Saudi right? And I think so in the way we were just we were just sort of trying to add nuance to kashogi characterization as a dissident. I think it's important to ads of new watts two MB SS characterization as a reformer because a lot of coverage. This will say this is you know. Mohammed bin psalms role in the death of kashogi is surprising because he billed himself as a reformer. I don't think that's actually true. I think what Muhammed bin Salman has built himself as this entire time is a modernist. And I think that that's it of speaks to the fact that his regime in the west we think of things like him allowing the opening of movie theaters and letting letting women drive right in that's modernism. But that is a part from what I think people would think of if you described him as former he's not a reformer. He's actually a very autocratic guy. Like he in Saudi Arabia. He should have. He's a sushi hit with a clampdown within the Saudi Royal family of like who has what power got right? He sort of created this bottle necking in which all roads in with Muhammad bin Salman, so in that sense. He's not a reformer. He's in authoritarian. He just happens to be a hip modernist. Our -tarian leader. And so I remember when Trump went on his first foreign visit Arabia, and he sort of I think this was before I'm Bs was fishery named crown prince or like right around the time that he was but Trump and him early hit it off. He sort of Trump was like, this is my guy, and they made this big arms deal. And then that sort of when the whole oh, look at this new crime prints coming in like let women drive. He's like what a great ally to the US. Maybe we don't have to feel shamed. Of the fact that we've been allying ourselves with Saudi Arabia for strategic purposes. That's when that whole story line got pushed out in the media. But sense, then a lot of stuff that he's done has been clearly just not in line with that narrative. Like heat started a war with young men that. Has resulted in a lot of human rights catastrophes. And that hasn't really gotten much pushback. And then he also like rounded up a bunch of of his enemies and tortured them in a hotel and Trump tweeted like, I support, my friend. He knows what he's doing. Trump had no problem looking the other way or even endorsing a lot of his actions that were clearly not reform clearly very author -tarian in disturbing. Why do you think kashogi as murder has become this tipping point in US Saudi relations in a way that nothing else has I'm of two minds about it? There's the obvious angle that I think a lot of people a lot of cynics echoing right now, which is oh no one wanted to pay attention to two casualties in Yemen. But they'll pay attention to the death of this one journal. List this one prominent journalist because that's how the media rates media protects its own. I think there's some truth to that shore. I think. Chris. You're just. In a position in society that lent itself to this being politically unpalatable situation in congress, certainly if not in Trump's head, I think the other part of it though is just that. I just think that the the US Saudi alliance is just so fundamentally bonkers and fraudulent. It's all it is like the most accidental farcical relationship that the United States has. It's all just because of the corner that the US painted itself into during the Truman and Eisenhower years when we totally alienated Iran and never really have been able to come back from that. And so the entire the strategic logic of being doer dialyzers with Saudi Arabia is to counterbalance Iran, which is a country that. I mean, I mean, it's a country that at this point is like ruled by its own sort of Islamist authoritarian situation that is like a direct product of America's own interventions in in politics. But I think all of those things withstanding. Saudi Arabia is our ally because we need to counterbalance Iran, which is a country that in a different version of American history would be a way more comfortable ally. With United States than Saudi Arabia will ever be Saudi Arabia is just it is a fundamentalist monarchy. That realistically is just incompatible with. Human rights priorities, the United States. Yeah. It definitely seems like it's always been a the enemy of my enemy who also has guess is my friend. And I'm like, do you think that this is going to be something that will fundamentally alter the nature of that relationship? No, I think under another President Obama or under Clinton or under another president there would be other options here. But I think the fact that one of Trump's core foreign policy principles is just need work antipathy toward her on. I think that actually. Paints the US into this weird corner. Yeah. Or paints the US deeper into that historical corner of look at the end of the day, you've made this you've made this mortal enemy of Iran. And so you you're stuck with Saudi Arabia. And if you had a president who was more receptive to and had a more constructive relationship with Iran. You would have more room to feel punitive to war to take a punitive stance toward Saudi Arabia right now. But we don't have that because Trump's foreign policy doesn't make any fucking sin. But also totally consistent with the rest of American foreign policy that doesn't make any fucking sense. I think he just knows that regionally like this is the table he set for himself. This is the table he set for us. And so you couple that with the fact that like the State Department is the most dysfunctional department under Trump gets the department that just doesn't have staff, and it's just. Yeah. I think he just doesn't know what to do. And all he has are his sort of vague elementary biases against Iran and in favor of Saudi Arabia. The weird thing is that Trump is a fan of air. John believe Turkey. It's so I don't maybe that's like the wildcard here because air to one really I mean, I I should clarify like everyone was personal friends with kashogi, which is that is another thing that sort of tells you how like about because show he's prominence in that. He wasn't just some journalists like he was friends with air John airline himself is not a not only do that press. Yeah. Not friendly to the press. But aired Owen has been very bullish about all of this like yet on Tuesday. He gave this much hyped speech to his parliament where he just started airing this out he's out and again was like playing his hand of Saudis, keep lying. Meanwhile, we have the tape. It would be unfortunate if tape leak to the press and just embarrassed the Saudis, he's clearly playing his own game here and on some level. He seems to have this exceptionally cooperative relationship with Trump. So I am curious how Turkey might end up Paiva tely prevailing on Trump to take a different tact. Then Trump is currently taking which is just sort of lake play dumb. I mean, you know. I'm looking forward to see how. Great. Let's just assume we're stuck with Saudi Arabia as a key regional ally. In the Middle East, this at least changes. Muhammed bin Salman, publicity, campaign Riley. He doesn't get to be Thomas Friedman's BFF. Now, I think it definitely crumbles the narrative that there's a reason to feel good about being allies the Saudi Arabia. It's weird to me that there's even an urge to have that pretense. People wanna feel good about the United States in our foreign policy this whole incident if nothing else like lays bare the fact that a lot of our alliances are transactional. And they're like, there's our foreign policies not guided by principle, it is like if this incident shows anything it's that way. But also like imagine feeling good about US foreign policy in the Middle East in the past one hundred years at any point. That's my response to that. I know I know, but I'm just thinking about like the. Subscribers of foreign policy magazine crowd not necessarily us way too cynical. I just think that it it totally dismantles that that narrative that was getting pushed by like a lot of mainstream media in and by the Trump administration way, I think this definitely destroys the NBS reformer narrative. Yeah, it's weird that narrative, even I mean, it's just if you think about it right NBS was basically doing the equivalent of like building Twitter brand. Joining the thing. Remember when Uber was like oh shit. We've really destroyed our brand, and they tried to be like you. He was like new improved. We heard your complaints. Yeah. Well, as of now, we don't know how the United States, we still don't know it's been like weeks, this point we still don't know what the State Department with the United States is going to say or do in response. Like definitively response to the Saudi. The successful Saudi plot to kill a journalist. We also don't know what's going to happen with these pipebombs. This is like such a dire note to end episode of this podcast says the assassination episode what we can it's not happy. It's not happy Kate promised at the top of the podcast that we'd have a happier episode. A couple of weeks from now. Terms. I feel like it's going to be to be honest with you. I think it's getting colder outside and colder in the studio. I'll put it like that. I used cold in my heart. Yeah. All right. I'm just in charity. I'm Kate neds this been damaged control. Thank you for listening. Y'all gonna hear from us again in two weeks the week of the mid-term elections cater you excited for the midterm elections excited. Scared nervous. I'm a lot of things. Well, just gentler.

Saudi Arabia Donald Trump United States Trump America prince Mohammad bin Salman murder Alex Jones Saudi Crown Washington Post George Soros Jamal kashogi Saudi Royal family Turkey President Obama president Mohammed CNN Trump White House
Trump vs. Intelligence

The Asset

40:50 min | 8 months ago

Trump vs. Intelligence

"The. Max Bergmann here for more of the asset podcast, please go to our patriarch page at www dot patriots dot com slash asset podcast. That's Pat R. E. N. dot com slash acid podcast. You'll hear the phone interviews with our roster experts and analysts. You'll also get more exclusive content from the acid team like our interview with the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Adam. Schiff. Event reacting to Robert Morris testimony and upcoming episode following the mysterious trail of Dead Russians around the twenty sixteen election and a whole lot more. Don't miss out. Sign up today at www dot patriotic dot com slash asset podcast. A foreign liaison. In the intelligence community is saying, you know what? We should not be dealing with the US because if we tell them something particularly as relates to Russia and it has been briefed to the president of the United States, he's like tell the Russians, we can't do that. We shouldn't do that. We won't do that. So the erosion of. Our credibility and the global intelligence community is a lamentable rather stunning development. It's not entirely surprising. One given the president of the United States has himself on. On twitter and in breathing in the Oval Office just kind of set off the top of his head. What he's learned that. You. Asset podcast listeners I'm Max Bergmann I'm here today with a draper, a writer at large for New, York Times magazine, and the author of several books most recently to start a war how the Bush administration took America into Iraq. I'm here with Robert Today to talk about his August Eighth New York Times magazine story unwanted truce inside trump's battles with US intelligence agencies. Robert, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having my. Max. This is that piece was kind of amazing how wide ranging it was in the indepth look you got intelligence community what sort of prompted you to write this are. Well I guess two things at once the I was at I like every journalist who has covered the trump administration. But for that matter I think almost anyone who follows the news. CanNot help but notice on this particular presidents precarious relationship with the facts and and how. His his counselor. Kellyanne Conway memorably stated just a couple of days into his presidency the the phrase on alternative facts which I think very much encompasses. The kind of alternative reality that this president has attempted to foist upon the American public that is oftentimes at variance with some what the facts happened to be. So that's that that's just something that experience. I think all of us have ingested but very specifically I my antenna went up when. The. INDEFENS- word a really in the middle of February of this year. A fairly obscure senior intelligence official Shelby Pearson gave a classified hearing at the House Intelligence Committee. In which she said something frankly would sound unsurprising which was that. Russia on mainly intended interfere in the two thousand twenty election but intended to do so with the furtherance of reelecting Donald, trump. But apparently all hell broke loose and she was essentially quite asked to revise. That assessment but basically, a reassessment of Essen was made for her by the national? Security Adviser Robert O'Brien and in the meantime, her boss, the director of National Intelligence Joe McGuire was fired and so it became clear here the the unlike site, the Bush administration where. which I just finished writing about in the road to the Iraq war. Where the truth was not always followed as the prepared. To make their case to the American public going to war in. Iraq unlike the Bush administration. That would at times depart from the truth. Here was a person, the director of National Intelligence who was fired basically because his people had said the truth and so this is when alarm signals went off in my head and I began to pursue a story that ultimately led me to a classified document intelligence estimate. Then again, came to the conclusion that Shelby Pearson hat, but also went through these tortured modifications out of fear that is conclusion. which seems fairly run of the mill, but nonetheless politically embarrassed the. Now you got you saw different versions of that National Intelligence Estimate and I believe it was the one that was released in in September of twenty, nine, thousand, nine, hundred. Correct well yet to be clear a top secret document I did not see it entirety and certainly have never possessed it. However, I have seen portions of different versions of it and yes, there was a version that circulated in the intelligence community for review in July of last year, which had as a key judgment number two of its of. Its executive summary. The. We assessed the Russia. Favors the current president? That got out and there was a great deal of heartburn about how the president would react to it. Since the president had already denied up a down did that was the case had said that he didn't believe that was the case at all and and the Director of National Intelligence? Dan Coach was therefore. Asked by someone in the White House to change that particular assessment he refused to do so and within a matter of a couple of weeks. He was fired then. In September, a final version began to circulate of this. National Intelligence Estimate with that particular key judgment McKee judge I'm no longer said. First trump's it said instead that a on. Russia probably assesses did its relations with the US would be damaged under a new president. So in a sense, you can say it is a distinction without a difference it is kind of the obverse or the inverse of. Of of what the original judgment had been on the other hand. It does make a difference because not only does it not say what rushes precise in game was for interfering in this election, but it also allowed on Republicans including president trump to say that when Shelby Pearson gave her testimony in the classified setting in February of this year, it she's wrong to say that the rush prefers there's intelligence that says that I'm because after all, there was a doctor deny it said I'm something different. And I think that that's a fascinating sort of three line that you draw the piece where you know the sort of wrangling over what seems like kind of technical language in kind of a general report then can lead to this sort of a whiplash against the figure government that's supposed to be responding to. To election interference. Yeah and again, I should make clear there is a consensus in the intelligence community than Russia does in fact, favor the current president. You can have I suppose a robust argument as to why that is y whether it is just because they Putin trump seemed to get along whether they believe that he. Has Disruptive tendencies that will undermine democratic institutions networks to trump ought to Russia's favor could be any number of things, but there really isn't much disagreement on the fact that the current president is favored by Russia. So in theory, this should not be controversial, but because president trump has always regarded that assessment as casting doubt on the legitimacy of his vary presidency, he has pushed back at every turn and as I have now cited as the story makes clear that sort of narrative sets, the two directors of National Intelligence who supported that view are both gone. Right in I, think. One of the crucial points I sort of took from your pieces that. The feeder in the intelligence community has led to sort of a self censorship at times and you write about Maguire's appointment that right before that in in August you know prior to us learning about the whistle blower. In Ukraine affair that Radcliffe was was being his. Congressman John Ratcliffe who is a fierce trump defender was being put forward as potential candidate to replace Dan Coats. In his nomination was pulled but but just the mere. Fear of Ratcliffe or more political a real political animal being appointed to deny really prompted people within the denied kind of tried to make sure Maguire didn't get fired is that sort of a correct reading of of how you saw events play out with in our year change awarding it is indeed correct concern since they knew what a stalwart, the director of National Intelligence Dan Coats had been basically hewing to what the analysts said and not allowing anything to be politicize. Given that he was now after door given the ratcliff who was an Una Loye A supporter of president trump with no experience in intelligence community other than having sat on the Intel community for a year or so the with the specter of his appointment. Own certainly auguring a politicization of the office of the Director of National Intelligence Win that got momentarily scuttled nomination to Radcliffe having inflated his resume. Then McGuire who had been at the time. The Director of the National Counterterrorism Center was immediately embraced as a favourite alternative the belief being, Yup this guy is part of the intelligence community. This guy has served numerous administrations as retired admiral you know as a model rectitude. We can trust this guy and at the same time, we do not want to get him fired. We do not want to endanger his position as coaches, Ben, and so when it came to looking once again, a key judgment to in this National Intelligence Estimate view was. let's not get this guy fired his first week on the job, and so the change was made the again a subtle but I think important distinction. And of course, Maguire was brought up to the House Intel Committee in response to the lower complaint and if I remember correctly. Feels like ten years ago but he he sort of failed to ask for a long way to the to the House Committee and in the context I think of your reporting. Bring that into some relief right of what what he was Sir struggling with was the effort to sort of. Not, get fired to stay in the job, but trying to do his duty in at times it just impossible it seems impossible. Sure I mean to be charitable to Maguire who was brand new to the job rather than infer from him you know some kind of Weasley motives I think that he genuinely didn't know what to do and he arrives in this Ukraine whistle blower complaint arrives in his laugh and it's the first thing he does is he goes to the White House counsel's office and and. You know you can't bring where it's It's protected by executive privilege go to the of justice maybe and you can refer to them. He goes the Barney. Justice We're not going to do with it. It's protected by executive privilege and As a result of that, he took those bits of advice you know maybe failing to to to be cognizant of the fact that the very individuals implicated in the whistleblower complaint are in the executive branch are in the White House and in the Department of Justice, and so he kinda raked over the coals. By Democrats in the House Intelligence Committee for that and it was a point them the that committee Adam Schiff made to me that appears in the conclusion the piece, which is that you know look at McGuire there he was trying to kind of. If not appeased, the president didn't least give him the benefit of the doubt essentially to do the kind of thing, the president would have liked which was not to refer. That complaint to the Intel Committee and just point was you know it's never enough I mean they're going to ask for more and more and more indeed that's what's happened with McGuire McGuire did not say. To the president you're absolutely rioting shelters had no business saying that we will make this right and and. And and got fired its results of it's a reminder that. This admonition of shifts. Really. He intended to apply across the board. So all other government agencies and two people on the hill as well with it you can do as the president wishes, but it's not like a president will give you a pass if you do what he wishes half the time and and don't do what he wishes the other half of the time, he will always be looking for that moment of apostasy. Will make you pay for it. And so to go back to shelby, Pearson, sort of described in depth of the briefing that she gave in in February of this year and in the contradiction that then resulted or the admonishment that resulted from the national security advisers in other end others in the administration. What happened at be Pearson? She's still in the job is she still leading the kind of response to election interference? Well, yes, and no is she she kept her job she was assured after this event. She wasn't going to be moved out at the same time she had to sit by silently while on. Rick Grenell and others in. Odi. Deny and the national security. Council basically said her segments. All wrong. She misread her own intelligence assessment which is seen. Would be kind of infuriating I suppose if you shelby. Pearson. But though she has kept her job, she has essentially been sidelined to agree that. That William Avenida Has Now really stepped into the role of the point person at Odu deny in terms of talking about election threats, ensure their he has been on the hill saying, yeah, you know Russia's problematic but so is China and so is Iran, and by the way Russia, may favorite trump but China and Iran favor Biden. So it's kind of a jump ball and in this sort of obfuscation in it is exactly that by the way you cannot simply you cannot compare Russia's true. Attempts Donnelly to meddle in terms of a disinformation inverse oppression campaign. But also to to actually hack into our election infrastructure, you cannot compare that with the influence campaign being waged by China. which is going to state and local officials basically lobbyists now who have putting people. Giving them free trips and stuff like that and in return for favouring. I mean. Those are apples and oranges amp data's whatever Nina on very publicly. But also in a classified setting has been doing, which is at variance with the straight of reading of the Intel Shelby Pearson purported to do until now. that. She's been told basically chain misrepresentative. The, American public have been told that. So if I understand. Correctly. Caring gives the briefing Maguire gets fired in you mentioned Richard Grenell who's in brought in to. he was the ambassador to Germany vote former State Department. Spokesperson odd. We've worked for John Bolton actually when he was UN ambassador. He's sort of seen as he's access at trump loyalist What does he do when he gets on the job? Is Grenell that points of Anina to kind of take charge of dealing with Congress and being the point person on election security? Well, no. Let's see. rackliff ultimately was confirmed in May of this year and so. Grenell's ground time as acting director was pretty brief. But during that three months period, he did manage essentially briefings a to the intelligence committees became curtailed the annual worldwide threats assessment that was supposed to be given was not given. Pearson as I mentioned was sideline a reorganization plan at Odeon I the had the effect of gutting. Chasing out some key personnel was implemented as well, and so he in effect set the table than for Radcliffe who in his confirmation hearing before the Senate Intelligence Committee pledged up down you know that he would not politicize the intelligence and and that. It would be it. He'd be giving it to people straight. But I the intelligence has been politicized if we are to glean from what emanate. Own testimony has been and secondly There hasn't been much shooting straight at all because reckless has basically Minimize the number of hearings that take on top of which I should probably added as a result of that the publication of of the story we've been talking about Odeon Iowa's no longer talking to the tops. So we've been shut out at least until the election so we're told. That that striking indeed, the officers director National Intelligence, decides to not talk to their the paper record in the United States but so to Evanston statement in back to the kind of false equivalency on a related to Iran North Korea and Russia. There's A pattern now of senior trump administration officials highlighting. Alleged Chinese interference, and in particular, the claim that China wants Biden is prob- hiding. Once bite into win, which has been asserted by members of the trump administration. Of the trump campaign. But. There hasn't been any evidence right of Chinese outward action interference now that we are there, no that China's active ranger fearing and. Trying to influence American. Outlook American policy. Traditional espionage public diplomacy efforts to to influence. Our Americans, which is what the United States does broaden in others. But nothing I as far as hell we haven't seen anything. That this is this is a tool that China has in terms of election interference something that they've done before. A tool they have yet to unveil it. There is nothing said, China has done in terms of election interference in terms of mounting a sophisticated disinformation campaign that even comes close to what Roger Stone did you know as as trump loyalist in his various facebook accounts. So now it's Your correct maximum it. There has been this kind of systematic promulgation of China as the bogeyman for all sorts of things you know in terms of election security in terms of the economy in terms of the Wu virus and Presumably. Place to. Trump's strengths because he's been talking about China for such a long time it also. Removes in from having to discuss the unpleasant business of of his seeming affinity for Putin by the way I should mention it been the very notion that no, no really it's China is doing all this stuff is Russia talking point now so it's So it's a yet another. Get another victory for Russia every time did that China's mentioned but there is in any event no. Substantive. Proof. Really. The Only people within the government people outside the government who I've talked to who studied this said that China's anything other than a minor actor yet trying to influence the way we think you know in terms of how we Americans view the world, they're trying to get legislation legislation passed all sorts of governments are trying to do that, but they are not interfering with the democratic process far from it they are essentially playing by the democratic processes rules. Right, it's a you know China has hacked the think tank that I'm associated with in the past they've hacked the Obama campaign in two thousand eight. In. The crucial difference, there's not that you know I think this was also part of the reason why people were caught off guard in two thousand sixteen is Russia hacking into a campaign or hacking to gain intelligence was nothing new was sort of new was them are felt new at the time was using that intelligence and then making public for a direct trying to sort of push floor direct political. Outcome in you know there's evidence of China doing espionage, but it's the conversion of the espionage into the political influence which I. We just haven't seen any any evidence for it's frankly hard to sort of take the intelligence community face. Now you when it says that that's what China is doing. Well, it it does have an effect. It has an effect on the American public when basically you're saying. It's kind of like when. Former CIA director are now secretary of State Mom Mike Pompeo said at the Aspen Strategy Group A couple years back. Yes. Sure. Russia interfered in two thousand, sixteen election and the election before that and the election before that and the election before now that it's literally made up on. Where he got that, we don't know when the CIA director says it. You're supposed to take to the bank and then effect what he was saying look it happens all the time guys. You don't grow up as just the way it is, and essentially that's the message being given win we are being told. Of countries interfere in our election, it means for one thing. That it's no real significance because some favor one candidate, some favor another. So it's kind of a wash. It could also arguably mean your vote doesn't count you know and the. China's going to rule a day or Russia's GonNa roll the day all these other countries are gonNA roll the day. It's not dissimilar to win Mick Mulvaney said very early into the Ukraine inquiry trump former chief-of-staff that yes sure this decision of foreign policy that happens all the time this reform policy is a get over it. So this kind of normalization what in fact is a very, very abnormal series of circumstances. Is Not I think zip proper approach for what the American public ought to be internalizing. In in one of the more stunning revelations in many. I think you see the direct impact of that politicization in the trust that our allies have in the United States you you site that a former senior intelligence figure. Noted that a NATO ally with sent troops to Afghanistan that that country's leader had discouraged their intelligence community from from working with the United States when it came to Russia providing information on Russia. I. Would, what about? What was your reaction to that a? Hearing, that well, it's both stunning and unsurprising I, mean stunning in the sense the to here essentially that a foreign liaison. In the intelligence community is saying you know what? We should not be dealing with the US because we tell them something particularly as relates to Russia and it has been briefed to the president of the United States he's going to. Tell the Russians we can do that. We shouldn't do that. We won't do that. So the erosion of our credibility and the global intelligence community is I lament. Rather, stunning development. It's not entirely surprising. One given the the president of the United States has himself on both on twitter and in briefings in the Oval Office just kind of set off the top of his head. You know what? What? He's learned that day and and it's Again, it's it's the Cavalier Treatment of intelligence that tells you a couple of things about the president and his administration first He's obviously unaccustomed to environment where the stuff needs to be sacrosanct and where there are geopolitical. Implications to send this kind of stuff and and secondly did I. Think it also shows that he sees. Intelligence, with national security implications as no different from any other gossip that he might say to try to impress a foreign later. But when it does get to the point where one of our NATO allies is basically saying, you know we should probably be careful about that extent to which we do business with with the CIA for example, didn't realize the kind of hot water regenerate into. Yeah. I think one of the things that we sort of forget is head you know if you're a NATO ally. You having encourages community as well, and one of the major questions that they would want to try to figure out is is the president in states compromised by Russia and in there's probably a walk intelligence gathering being done to figure out that answer and in the conclusion of that could also lead to mistrust, but could it also could be it could be something a little more benign but still. Still important still serious, which is not so much. Did the president you know is somehow in cahoots with Russia but the the president is so careless with information. That he receives did he views it all as fodder for gossip that he can impress his wealthy businessman friends or other foreign counterparts and and does there have been instances of of where he has spoken of this stuff as if it's a kind of toy and and it's and I've mentioned in the story that in fact, he he there there have been concerned among those in the intelligence community that the president in stacking? Hills National Intelligence Advisory Board. For example, with a bunch of rich billionaire friends. The done that this would be not only sort of an opportunity for them to advantage whatever intelligence they year to help their own business portfolios but it would have just be like the sort of table side gossip that they would engage in not fully reckoning with again, the national security implications of passing the Steph around. In you you, you pointed a lot of. Concern over jared Kushner in sort of similar way that with his his past business ties sort of cavalier attitude toward intelligence sort of rankling many in the intelligence down yet another there was concern victim. In it's frankly why his his high security classification was held up and remains. To the best of my knowledge to this day was did his business entanglements were very complicated. He had not been terribly forthcoming with what does entanglements where you can argue that maybe that's just because the way the bureaucracy was set up in. In the classification approval process. They could just never encountered someone who has some business dealings, but it still it. was. It was problematic and they were additionally concerned of of the his business allegiances might Keller his judgment but also color who shares things with and and one of them had to do with molly. in the SC, on Saudi Arabia. Muhammad bin Salman. But also for that matter of the US ambassador to Israel and there was a concern. Kushner would be sharing intelligence with him if he in turn might be sharing that intelligence with members of the Israeli government inside. Because Kushner again comes from the outside and frankly believes they. In the private sector so much smarter than the slow footed government people. Might be inclined. To circumnavigate the normal methods of communication figuring as he did apparently with their friends in the sort of back channel. Communication. Corridor they were trying to establish with the Russians did his base his way better than the government way, and therefore, he does not have to mind procedure in looking forward. You know the coming election. Intelligence community. are kind of. Watching. Out You. See the America's under attack again, and. With senior people like Dan, Coats. Wire being hired with level people I shall be Pearson being he's sort of marginalized or demoted, and then whistle blowers being exposed. You Know Peter Struck, in his book, the F. B. I. Agent who is who who's sort of outed for having affair with this. Having his text messages reveal. The former. Person in charge of counter intelligence related to Russia you know he in his book he concluded that basically if you're an FBI agent right now in, you're supposed to work on count on Russia in countering Russia's efforts against us. You're trying to keep really low profile, keep your head down and in. That's quite dangerous. And that people are not gonNA want to speak out is is that your sense or you sort of worried that the intelligence community that trump is basically succeeded in sort of muzzling it and that we're going to go into an election where people aren't going to be willing to raise the red flag that things are you know when they when they? See problems or or or attacks on the United States yes. But let me break down into constituent parts. One aspect of this one element is so imagine your source and you WanNa talk to the FBI or someone in the CIA about say Russian interference for example and in dismay buttress the conclusion the Putin is working to favor trump. Are you GonNa do that are you really going to talk them? Are you sure that that that you can place your trust in the bureau or the agency to protect this particular source win after all this is something that is at odds on politically with the President Blaise. So so the actual collections as being endangered I think right now but then additionally, intelligence assessments themselves being written by the analysts are also being endangered I mean there is this real concern as we see over and over with these inflations of of China and Russia debt a very important but also fairly straightforward assessment that the principal. Mao factor in rush in election interference is Russia not anybody else and no one else belongs in this conversation really is being Is Yeah, that's being money and and when you look at public statements being made. By senior officials in the intelligence community and for that matter secretary of DHS Chad. Wolf. Just the other day when he was talking China China China in his State of the homeland address and barely mentioned Russia at all I mean it's it sounds more like a campaign rally talking point and it does make you wonder. What's the intelligence on a? What what? What is this doing to the credibility of the intelligence analysis actually integrity of the product overall and are we basically sing at least for this moment in time? Senior members of the icy essentially being trotted out as defacto campaign officials saying the kinds of things very much comport with what on stackable to the president in AIDS has relection bit. Lastly I wanted to serve. Talk With you about your book and in some of the lessons drew from looking at how the Bush administration politicized intelligence that obviously led to the. War. In Iraq But it strikes me that going forward that if we were to see a second from time and we're seeing the politicisation of intelligence community that there's a real danger intelligence. Is incredibly powerful. And we've seen it in the past in US history of subject to abuse both in its use at home and abroad All you know you talk to so many different members of the intelligence community to write this piece but also. In in writing your book, you are they're kind of warnings or lessons to learn from the Bush example to going forward are are people expressing concern about what trump could do with us in a long term with now, the intelligence community with total control over the intelligence community. Well Maccido's ironic. Get trump's rise to power very much abated by the abetted by the intelligence failures. Leading to the Iraq war, trump was able to say over and over. A pointing to Jeb Bush Scott Walker, and Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. Eugeniusz with all, yours oppose a government experience what what experience what good did that do us? We ended up going to war under-funding pretenses these endless wars I'll put a stop them all so there was that and now situationally the president has given himself permission to ignore intelligence conclusions always being able to fall back on. Yeah. Yeah. These geniuses they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction now, of course. There been unequivocal winds owing to the intelligence community in the trump administration the killing about by data, the killing the Sulejmani, the these were made possible by intelligence breakthroughs side like president trump out where these guys were So so he clearly find some use. In intelligence findings but only when they comport with whatever is good for him and and don't upset him in some way as for what a second term. would portend for for the intelligence community. It's hard to imagine anything being different I. Mean it's it's It's clear. Did the president has a basic distrust in the community unless it is led by people who are massaging? The intelligence product so that it conforms more with what is politically convenient or more of the president's point of view and and that after all Max is not be icees job intelligence community exists. To provide whatever grand truth is there to be given oftentimes that amounts to an uncomfortable truth, the tends to kind of screwing around with a presence decision space. No president likes that none of them likes being told you know what? Mr President we know you WANNA DO ABC it's really not possible because of the F. A. But. The presidents will be ultimately grateful for having received that information that can then charter course based on what the what the intelligence assessments lead them to. It remains to be seen whether the president will suddenly have an epiphany and decide that none other. The community is really important to me. I think Max the die is really cassie his already come the conclusion that there are people in the supposedly deep state who had been out to get him from the start that they are Bush and Obama holdovers and sure it may well be that there have been some and I'm not making. In the apparatus disapprove what the president does have therefore leaked things to depress, but I know at least from my experience that is that that's not how I've received any of the information that I have that the president really doesn't have the intelligence community of fear it's it's his own sort of manipulation of the intelligence that has so outraged intelligence community in caused them monthly to speak out one would hope that that would change. When he would be if you were granted other term, but I don't know what fax lineup the lead you to the conclusion that they change Robert Thank you so much for joining me and thank you for for all your work covering intelligence community it's been. It's an extremely important story and I really encourage people to also check out here as well. Thank you so much. The asset is a production of the Center for American. Progress Action Fund protect the investigation and district productive Paul Woody Woodhall Max Bergmann, executive. Producers and Peter Auburn senior producer. The asset is written by Max Bergmann and the good people at the Moscow project and the team at protect the investigation and Paul Woody, Woodhall, and his covert at district productive to learn more about Russian, interference in the two thousand sixteen presidential election. Go to the Moscow Project DOT ORG, and protect the investigation dot org. Please subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts or favorite podcast APP and please leave a rating and Thank you. ooh. Shish.

president Russia United States House Intelligence Committee National Intelligence trump Shelby Pearson China Director of National Intellige Iraq McGuire McGuire Maguire acting director Max Bergmann National Intelligence Advisory executive Senate Intelligence Committee Putin Ukraine
Did Brexit fallout fears prompt British government to court Trump?

AM Joy

1:24:39 hr | 2 years ago

Did Brexit fallout fears prompt British government to court Trump?

"Yeah. Honestly he stands for everything. The I really realized almost every single thing Trump has done is unamerican. And I'm pleasant and nasty. And I think America deserves a better leader. Good morning and welcome to AM joy, live from lovely London England, well, Donald Trump took his traveling roadshow to Europe this week, having finally scored a UK state, visit courtesy of outgoing Prime Minister Theresa may, and he was also here with other European leaders to commemorate, the d day, aniversary an America's pivotal role in helping Europe to defeat Nazism, a seminal event in modern American history that every modern president has been able to articulate the this American president is Donald Trump. And so his trip was, it was different. Trump was greeted on the first stop of visit here to London with something that he should be used to buy now thousands of people in the streets protesting him. And yes, the Trump baby blimp, made an appearance Ciller baby, along with this statue of Trump putty, holding his phone, perhaps tweeting, so you can clearly see that a lot of people took to the streets protests, Donald Trump who is not. Exactly popular here in London. But of course, Trump lives in a different reality earth to where he is beloved, the world over and those thousands of people in the streets. They were just waving. Hello. And then I heard that they were protest said where the protests. I don't see any protests. I did see a small protest today when I came very small so a lot of it is fake news. I hate to say. Trump's visit included the normal presidential duties, but Trump unsurprisingly was anything, but he had his entire family tag along for the official visit, including the adult children of his first two wives, their spouses, and for some reason, Steve Mnuchin and before the visit even began Trump tweeted attacks on the London mayor and during the trip he through Twitter jabs at Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer and even national treasure actress Bette midler, perhaps, in an attempt to avoid a certain awkwardness at Buckingham Palace with Trump's were not invited to stay because of renovations to the seven hundred plus room mansion. He tried to clean up his nasty comments about the duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle in an interview with Piers Morgan. The biggest embarrassment however came during an interview with Trump. TV host Laura Ingram at a cemetery, where American soldiers killed in World War. Two are buried Trump being Trump did not see. Seem to be able to keep his mind on them. I will tell you the more successful. The more angry people like Nancy Pelosi don't have what it takes the opponent who shouldn't have even been allowed to run you. She happens to be a crooked person. So her name was very appropriate. We have Brian Shimer, who's a disaster, by the way is a total political, you know, jerk. Joining me now is Lola at a soya social and political commentator. Martin Lewis producer and columnists and cure, Simmons, NBC, new senior international correspondent, as well as Christopher Dickey world news editor at the Daily Beast here. I'm going to start with you, Donald Trump attempted to characterize this visit as very friendly. He tried to say there were no protests you're here reporting from London. What was the atmosphere? He thought he was well received. Protests, some believable really isn't it that you have to be the question, and I have to just kind of Ouch for the that there were protests. Now. Look, there were not the protests that we have seen in London in the pasta. This city has seen huge protests. That was what we saw on the streets. But it was a representation of how controversial this visit walls. And at the same time joy, you know what you had here. I feel that we are so shortsighted in terms of our politics, these days fulling, every Trump tweet what you had here at the same time as these protests was President Trump meeting with British Royal family who take a long view, very long view. You have a Queen who you know, no new JFK, new Churchill, who's worked with a bomber with the Clintons with Reagan for her. And for the Royal family, President Trump is just another president. And it's interesting because what effectively they did was under school. Britain's strong alliance with America. Whatever the politics of America. But you bet your key question whether protests, of course, a protest. Yeah. And you don't Lola I am struck by the optics of Donald Trump coming to Britain, where there is an American duchess, or Princess a lot of people call her Princess, Meghan Markle who did not it was. I mean, I'm not going to speak for her, but she did not see him put it. That way you had her husband Prince Harry, who must be aware of Donald Trump's attacks on his wife, who is a new mom calling her nasty. Then he comes to the palace, where her family were inlaws live where they preside over this country. And just the opposite of an American president coming when there is an American in the Royal family, and then not being able to interact, and he tagging his family along. And I guess they expected I don't know. I guess they expected the. Same kind of camaraderie that the Obamas head with Prince Harry and the family that clearly is in an awkward situation. What do you make of it very bizarre? Donald Trump is delusional man, and he likes self-awareness. So he he's also no good on the implications of his words, new implications of action, so not only is he American and doctors Meghan. Markle is also American, but he has a politics of division, a politics of hatred of politics of other ising, people, basically politics of styling against everything that she actually stands for and that people have welcomed her into into Britain because she is different because she represents something going forward. So his politics and his whole whoa. View is very regressive retro to compared to what's actually happening within the Royal family right now. Yeah, it is interesting Martin because Martin Lewis on this, because I would show this picture of Jared Kushner, and any vodka Trump, it's kind of gotten Memed all over social media them sort of staring out into the distance from Buckingham Palace. You've got Eric Trump taking selfies all over town, the whole family kind of being tagged along. Like this was the Trump family vacation them getting right up there, somehow the Kennedys all of it is weird. And I wonder if you can understand Theresa May's politics in why she would call for this because it was her call to do a state visit for Donald Trump on her way out the door. Why, why would she do that? She made that commitment on when she first met Donald Trump at the point, when she she was still going to be prime minister of watch a long time, and the, Donald Trump would somehow redeem himself, but we know she turned into before this shape. Visit actually happened. She. Turned into a lane jock was Donald Trump side. She's elaine. What it sounded like lame duck. I'm not sure. But his the things I have to defend Trump hair, a lot of attacks Donald Trump and saying that he'd been disrespectful to the world family, for example, it was mentioned that he'd said of Princess Diana that he would be able to nail her and that was not fair. He was Donald Trump was a real estate developed. He was in construction and to nail woman means to secure and be kind to. He also was accused of calling Meghan Markle NAS thing, this is not true. If you listen to the tight, Kathy, he says she's a nut saying, so they really be fair to Donald Trump a loss, but not lease. When people say that making didn't show up when he was there, you have to understand that she's just had a baby or is Donald Trump set to Prince Harry, that's what it calls, a stormy time after your wife had a baby but as it happens. Meghan Markle come out. She's just had a baby. It's not as she could just go up to London and make a public appearance. So when you see video type of today for the queen's official birthday cooled trooping of color, that is not Meghan Markle, that is an inflatable from the shoal hunting collection that he's not like. Martin you are a national treasure countries. Okay. Let me go to Christopher Dickey because the sort of bigger picture here is that this was not just Donald Trump's great European vacation, this was an opportunity for Europe writ large. I've been watching a fair amount of TV here in Britain, just watching the solemnity and with which Britain writ large is commemorating the anniversary with which Europe really is coming together to talk about the momentous defeat of Nazism. And how court that was to the modern world. It's an important part component of modern American history. Here was Donald Trump. I wanna play dump Trump. This is four for my producers at a cemetery. And this is one of the most solemn places to be when it comes to the anniversary of d day to commemorate in World War Two and here, he is at a place where American soldiers lay in rest, and this is Donald Trump talking to his friend Laura Ingraham, his favourite TV host one of them. Suffice still before. You said he didn't care. He made such a fool out of himself to last time she because what people don't report is the letter he had to do to straighten out his testimony because his testimony was wrong. And so you had this, and then on top of that, let me show you one more thing for Christopher. This is Ellen to Donald Trump signs, this d day proclamation that all of the leaders of Europe sign. I mean, they all signed it where you typically signed things where like when you look at the declaration of independence, everyone signs at the bottom, he had to throw his signature up at the top. I just wonder what the rest what, what the rest of Europe kind of makes this American presidents presentation of himself this week. The truth is they didn't make much of it. They didn't pay much attention to him at all. What they did was essentially ignore it. I mean here in France, the day, celebrations, Donald Trump's part in them was carried deep inside the newspapers usually on, like a quarter page. So they didn't pay much attention. They didn't think there was much to go on here. I think the British are a little bit more desperate in their dealings with, with Donald Trump because they're about to pull out of the European Union. They don't know where they're gonna go, and they're in desperate need of American support. And he's giving them incredibly bad advice. But, you know the Tories are trying to make do with it. So we basically have a situation where Britain is going crazy. Either pro or con with Donald Trump and the rest of Europe. They've always thought he was insane and a loose cannon. And they're just praying that he doesn't get reelected. Cure. Then what good does Donald Trump do for the pro Brexit? 'cause I mean he didn't get a meeting with Boris Johnson. He's a few simply praised Johnson's insulted him, right? To what is, what is, what are the Tories getting out of this? Trump friendship. Well, one of which is really fascinating. That Boris Johnson as far as we know turned down a meeting. I think it's an illustration of what world leaders and politicians around the world have discovered with President Trump that actually you fly very close to the, some with this president, and that, even though you may consider yourself an ally in a friend, he can burn you heat bones his friends regularly, and that's true for almost everyone around the world. So it was fascinating to see Boris Johnson who may well be prime minister of Britain, say, thanks very much, Mr President. But I don't think I'll meet you meet with you right now. Joy this another aspect to this, which just doesn't seem to be being commented on. And that is that Laura Ingram interview with Fox News, a modo channel before President Trump. Again. He's trippy did an interview with the sun newspaper mode of the times newspaper on the mound in the background of this. Ircus if you like. And potentially, of course, the money they make because it brings rita's and brings viewers just just the spectacle of it just doesn't seem to be to be. Doesn't seem to come up on. I think it should because I think illustrates another aspect of this, which is a lot of this is about performance. When you look beneath, he's actually substance. That performance is partly about kind of getting a media performance, if you like. Yeah. And Lola, it's also performance breaks and Trump is do have a lot of parallels that inmate, they are driven in large part by opposition to non white non Christian immigration. And so I just wonder London is a wonderful city for a lot of reasons, but it's also a super diversity. It's an incredibly diverse city just but it isn't the countryside part that voted to exit. What do you think it means to have conservative party here, despite the rest of Europe, sort of ignoring him as Christopher said, kind of ally themselves with Tom Trump? Well like you said, the pro Brexit people on the pro-trump people have a lot in common. They have a lot of the same ideas. They have a lot of the same ideology. Very right wing anti immigrant, anti diversity on T, globalization and t- Fullwood movement, and lots of. Of ways. So London is a bit. Like can you can like how the places that people were considered that these coastal elites places in the US Webuye is very different in its makeup? It's racial tolerance says, religious tolerance. People live among each other, and get on with each other really, really well, and London is going to be very hard hit by Brexit. And I think people in London, very aware of the implications of Brexit, particularly leaving the EU without a deal, whereas Peter, who are outside of London who kind of disliked Londoners, a lot of people do and also have a hard time with immigration because there's so much change and then used to it. They are the people who are more pro Brexit in the same way that you have people in Meru eras in America who are more pro-trump. So there are a lot of similarities, I think it's very difficult for London is in particular to stomach somebody who stands for things that we particularly dislike coming. And showing himself and acting like he's the king of the world when he's causing destruction, and also giving the worst most ignorant in informed advice to Britain just been going through hell for the past few years trying to figure about the impossible Brexit thing. So, you know, the whole thing just needs an AUSSIE taste in the mouth. Absolutely. Martin's last word to you on this. Do you think that Donald Trump boosts our hurt you kit? Because that is the sort of Trumpy party here. Well, in fact, ship launch it by a who the brick paltry you policy by for all Jews the Manu common Jj Brexit. But I have to say one moving defensive Donald Trump, he was a check for Shane what she shaved about Bette midler, but he was right. Bette midler made Mehta film about the invasion beaches. But there was no, Hank. There was no invasion of Normandy and show. Donald Trump was right to call out. Bette midler being unpatriotic. If there wasn't a Martin Luth, we'd have to invent one. Thank you Martin. Louis, thank you. Edit, cure Kieran, Chris will be back in our next hour. And coming up the Trump corruption road show. Enjoy live from London next. Hi, it's Katie her want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the MSN be daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC to six eight six six to subscribe. Good, right? Exciting. Trump cups. People. Anybody purchasing here. The Trump families European adventure, looked more like a promotional tour than a presidential. Visit Eric and Donald Trump junior have no official White House roles, but they do oversee the Trump organizations real estate holdings, including Donald Trump's golf course in dune Berg, where he stayed during his stop in Ireland, according to the Irish Times, Trump originally wanted to meet the Irish prime minister at the Trump golf import him. But after the Irish rejected that idea the two wound up meeting in an airport lounge, instead, still Trump insisted his stop in Ireland had nothing to do with his business. Green here. This trip is really about great relationships that we have with UK. And I really wanted to do the stop in Ireland. It was very important because of the relationship I have with the people, and with your prime minister joining me, Brian class assistant professor of global politics, at the univer- University College London and author of the despots accomplice, thank you so much for being here. The Trump family trip. You had Eric Trump when asked by a reporter why were they here because they didn't have any official reason to be here. So we're having a good time and taking sell fees, and the whole family was here, is that unusual, there was a lot of criticism from conservatives when the Obamas traveled with their children, but their children were children. They were like actual children. So what do you make of this? Trump family vaca-. Well, it's different is problematic, because there has been absolutely no dissociation between the family the business and the government. And after Trump was elected, there were ethics experts across the spectrum that said, look, he's going to have to divest, and he made, you know, very, very cursory efforts to appear as though he was, and there was no substance to it. I mean, the Trump boys are used in promotional videos for the White House. They're used in fundraising emails for the campaign, they're going on Fox News, promoting their the president's policies. So this is a situation in which the government is being used to line, Donald Trump's pockets in promotional terms and create serious serious problems for conflicts of interest, as well where we have to wonder whether foreign policy decisions are being made for the best interest of the country or because they'd be best for Donald Trump's bottom line in a series of struggling businesses. We have Donald Trump attempting to hold an official meeting at his dune Burg golf club. The Irish government very wise. He said, no, we're not going to go hold basically a commercial for your golf club. But the golf club was still able to have images of Air Force One landing there, I think they tweeted out of thank you to Donald Trump. Donald Trump and his team rented four limousines to transport Trump around at a cost of one million dollars. I had my great producers looked up what the comparative cost this exact same funeral firm rented to the Obamas. It was one hundred and fourteen thousand dollars. So all the Sturman drawing over the Obamas travel, they one hundred and fourteen thousand dollars trumps needed four limos in a million dollars. It is pretty free spending. Yeah, it's also not exactly the art of the deal. If they're getting almost ten times, the price for a similar service. But I think also the Irish one is less problematic because Ireland is an ally. What I think is really worrisome is how Donald Trump's foreign policy is being dictated by businesses in the more unsavory parts of the world. My favorite example, this, by the way, is with the Philippines, because Trump Tower Manila, opened in twenty seventeen and Trump's business partner in that venture became a special on void to the US government and official Representative of the Philippines, and then Donald Trump turns around and starts praising a despot in the Philippines. Rodriguez, deterrent, who's indiscriminately killing people thousands of extrajudicial killings, and then they hold their independence day, celebrations last year at Trump hotel in DC. So it's just absolute cesspool of conflicts of interest in which government policy. The word of the United States is being used and swayed simply because it's good for Donald Trump's bottom line. I think that in any other context would be known as. Eruption. I think it's what we should call it in the United States to well, you know. Would faint holds tremendous investigative work on Donald Trump and all the sort of corruption encrypt dealings of the foundation and his business has a piece out right now. Pretty blockbuster piece out in the Washington Post, which talks about a wealthy Iraqi Sheikh who urges hard line approach to Iran, and who styles himself, a future leader of Iraq, spending, twenty six nights at Donald Trump's DC hotel that you just mentioned. You've also got the Washington Post reporting that Saudi funded lobbyists paid for five hundred rooms at Donald Trump's hotel after the two thousand sixteen election t mobile executives with business before the FCC approving booking fifty two nights at that same DC hotel, much more, that was previously known do seem to have a kind of nexus where the way to Donald Trump's heart is by swiping lots of cards at his hotels. I mean they can see what we all see right? That the way to Donald Trump is three flattery or pain him. And so that's why foreign governments have started to do both those things they flatter him with state visits. They promote his businesses if they can, and they also spend money there. And I think, you know, the Saudis which you just mentioned. That's also open question about the killing of Jamal kashogi and Trump's response to that because they bailed him out in early nineteen nineties, they bought his yacht, which was called the Trump Princess and Trump's other princesses Ivanka is married to Jared. Kushner, who has close ties to Mohammed bin Salman, the despot in Saudi Arabia. So I mean everywhere you look, there's tentacles of the Trump business that are affecting the foreign policy of the United States, and people are flashing a lot of cash with the hopes that Trump will actually make consequential decisions that all Americans have to live with all Americans have to pay for, and that also often violate our values simply because it's good for Trump org and his kids and the family. And I think that's something that we should be able to agree on a bipartisan basis has no. In the American government. Yeah. I wish we had something in the constitution that could deal with this, like an emolument. Yeah. Enforceable that maybe, maybe like a congress could enforce that would be amazing. If we had something like that, anybody. That's just my to'real comet. I wanted to, to you Brian clause. You're also the host. He is of the new podcast is called power corrupts. How fitting thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you coming up the democratic leadership is still stuck in the mud on impeachment. That's next. Donald Trump says there were absolutely no protests of his state visit to the UK this week that, of course, isn't true among those visible protests were those by an anti brings at campaign group called led by donkeys whose projections on London landmarks designed to needle Trump about John McCain and to remind him that his approval rating pales in comparison to still popular President Obama's new projections on that seven hundred seat Buckingham Palace. Non ability to stay the night coming up next. The Democrats continue to battle each other over impeachment. Joy live from London. Worry about the politics right now, peach mint and everything else. That's on the table and how they can further divide us. Then, do you question of tone haven't? Haven't. House speaker Nancy Pelosi refused to criticize the president during her visit to France on the seventy fifth anniversary of d day would that he would return the favor? I think she's your disgrace. I actually don't think she's a talented person. She's a nasty vindictive. Horrible person Nancy. Pelosi cooler nervous. Nancy, Nancy, Pelosi's disaster. Okay. She's a disaster. Insults in front of the Normandy, cemetery notwithstanding. Pelosi is still refusing to allow the house to begin a formal impeachment process, which about a quarter of House Democrats and one Republican are calling for as first reported this week. Pelosi told senior Democrats privately that she doesn't wanna see Trump impeached. She wants to see him in prison. Quite a rhetorical escalation, but how long will her fellow democratic democratic leaders in membership? Follow now is congressman Joan Agoos from Colorado and the congressman is a member of the House Judiciary committee, and congressman, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Good morning. Good afternoon. I guess, to you in London could afternoon, but, you know, sorry, this a little earlier for you that it is for me. But. I wanted to ask you about where whether the caucus is still how much the caucuses with Nancy Pelosi. Here's the whip count, that we have my producers gave me this morning. It is sixteen people in support of beginning an impeachment inquiry, one hundred eight who do not support undecided, bunch waiting response. When you look at just the Democrats fifty nine supporting sixty six not now are rating, and then one ten awaiting a response. And that's just isolate the Democrats alone, where are the undecideds truly undecided, or when you talk to rank and file members do they not want to go against Nancy Pelosi? That's hard to say -joyed. I think it runs the gamut certainly in the conversations I've had with members think folks are trying to approach this really thoughtfully, right? I mean each member is going to make their own decision based on their view of the evidence, and, and their conversations with their colleagues, and of course with their constituencies as well. So my sense. I mean, the numbers that the you articulated, sound about right. I suspect that there are probably some more members who feel like opening an inquiry is the most prince step forward as I do. But I do think some of the reports are divisions within the caucus and so forth are a bit exaggerated. I mean fundamentally the caucus is United around defending the rule of law in this country. There is a difference of opinion about the best way to do that. There's some folks like myself, who believe that opening an inquiry would be the right approach. There are others who believe that, that, that isn't necessary and, and they have their reasons and so we're having a very robust, healthy debate in the caucus much like the country, is having frankly, about the right step forward. I think it's important for those conversations to take place from my perspective as a member of the judiciary committee. I think I have an obligation as do other members to educate other members of the caucus, as well as the American public because we are so close in terms of witnessing the obstruction that this administration has engaged in firsthand, right? These subpoenas that are being ignored are subpoenas were issued by the judiciary committee. The witnesses who are refusing to show up at the direction of this White House something is unprecedented. That's happening in front of our committee. So we have an obligation, and that's one that we take seriously. Do you do? There's a certain agony in your committee chairman, Jerry, Nadler's pronouncements about whether or not he's on the same page Nancy Pelosi is he privately on the other side of her. I Dr not gonna speak for the chairman I can only speak for myself as an individual member of the, the caucus and of the committee chairman, I will say, though, he's, he's at a masterful job. I have the utmost faith in our chairman. I think he's done an incredible job and continues to do so. And, and we shouldn't lose the forest for the trees. I mean, you've you focused on this in your prior programs. Let's not forget the underlying serious findings of obstruction and their outlined in the Mola report. And I think this week, the chairman is actually embarked on a path of scheduling some hearings that are going to be very important for the American people to better understand precisely what is in the special counsel report, very quickly. Let's talk about the politics in your in Colorado. My former home state, we have a lot in common. We are both from the great state of I grew up there and you are from there. The politics of this, are that the vast majority of the base of the Democratic Party wants impeachment. It's gone up. It's only getting up. We're gonna show a poll here in which is now seventy six percent of Democrats say start an impeachment inquiry. The politics also include the fact that if the Senate were to acquit him, you've got at least four states where that Republican Senator with then have to go up for reelection. And the is tweeted out that your state, Colorado is one of them, Colorado, Arizona North Carolina. Maine, Democrats alita flip four seats is impeachment actually potentially good, politics for the party. That's a fair question joy. My sense of it is that I actually think public opinion will could in fact shift fairly rapidly that part of the reason why there is a large number of people in the country, who are undecided, about whether or not impeachment proceedings, or opening any Korea's the right next step is because of the fog of confusion that was created by the attorney general seven weeks ago around the special counsels, the release of the special counsel report. Right. The scale that he engaged in the misrepresentations of the special counsel's findings really did create a lot of confusion around what the special counsel concluded and did not conclude. It's why these hearings the judiciary committee is scheduled to commence with this week, or so important, I think is more people. Learn the contents of the special counsel's report, they will reach the same conclusion that I have, which is that opening an inquiry is warranted. That's certainly the case in my observation visiting with folks here in Colorado and. And it sounds yours as well as a fellow Colorado. Well, let, let me actually turn hard turn. It was what we call in hard turning team. Because another the nation's during we're not to you. Both of us as children of immigrants of African immigrants. At that you had a viral moment this week on Tuesday? You tweeted, you talked about the dreamers. Let me play that really quickly. Right now. There are young people all across our country who no no other home, but the United States these kids are dedicated and willing to put in the hard work to earn a college education. They are excelling in their careers. They're contributing to our communities in countless ways every day. We cannot allow these young people to continue to live in fear to be at risk every single day of being ripped away from their lives and losing everything that they know. What can congress do about that? Congress can do a lot joy. And the first step is what we just did on, on Wednesday, which was passing HR six. The dream promise act of twenty nineteen to protect millions of dreamers in our country, who is I said, in my remarks on the floor, who know no other country. But the United States is home as you said, we both are the children of immigrants. My parents journey this country from east Africa is shaped my life in many ways. And, and so I just this is an issue that I feel very passionate about I've had opportunity to meet a lot of young dreamers here in Colorado in Fort Collins and boulder across our state who are just as American as you and I, and as I said, in my speech on the floor, they deserve to be treated with dignity, and respect. One of the frustrating parts of being in Washington. I will tell you joy is, is the fact that the Senate Republicans continue to get pass. We keep on passing these incredible pieces of legislation that would really move the ball forward in a tangible way for a lot of Americans and yet, they go to what is now become the legislative graveyard in the Senate. And the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell has. Been unabashed right about calling himself, the grim reaper of legislation and so forth. We should not give them a pass. I don't think we should assume that the Senate is impervious to public opinion. We should raise our voices at make clear that HR six as well as many other important pieces of legislation this gun violence awareness month. Shannon watts whose incredible leader on this front constituent of mine. And she has led the charge in helping us get HR eight background check Bill across the finish line. Again, that's Bill. That's been languishing in the Senate for a hundred days it deserves a vote. It deserves a hearing. And we should all make our voices heard in that regard. Yeah. Well, I presume that Cory Gardner is going to be made to answer that you think in the Senate race. Schittenhelm show. I certainly hope so not just him but a variety of other centers across the country. I think, again, these issues that we talk about they have the wide support of the American public. And so, I think our legislators should be responded to that. Paging Mitch McConnell congressman Joe Gu's from my home state of Colorado. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you coming up next. My panel will continue this conversation. Don't forget at the top of the next hour. Professor Laurence tribe. He's going to be here with what could be a house only house only solution on impeachment. You do not want to miss that. We have a constitutional responsibility here, and that's to start this impeachment proceedings. We should begin impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump. I think this president should be impeached. I believe that the judiciary committee should begin in Beechman inquirers believe that the president deserves to be impeached. I feel like we have a moral obligation now to investigate this president impeachment proceedings will give us more legal leverage to begin impeachment proceedings. And we. The Democrats in the house might be in conflict about how best to hold Donald Trump accountable. But the twenty twenty presidential candidates are one voice. And it is both loud and clear. Joining me is Jonathan Kaye, part of the Washington Post and cream jump here. Move on dot org cream and start with you, because there is a really sharp dichotomy here. The House Democrats are having in hauling and wrangling the twenty twenty Democrats are on the same page with the public with the democratic base seventy six percent of whom the latest poll. Seventy six percent say impeach why the disconnect between those two groups of Democrats. Yeah. It's a really good question. Because I don't understand it. Right. Democrats were were given a blue way for a reason, and a lot of it is because voters believe the state of our Republic was at stake. They wanted to make sure this president was. There was a check and balance on this president, and they wanted to see Democrats fight, and what you're seeing in the democratic. House right now. It's like a really bizarre awful TV reality dating game. They're going, maybe we should maybe we shouldn't maybe we should just make out and see how it goes and it makes no sense at all. Meanwhile like you said, seventy six percent of the base, and it's growing and growing as saying, no, please take it all the way. And that's the thing that I'm not understanding because Nancy Pelosi I respect, I think she is a great speaker. She is the most powerful woman in politics Tuli truly believes that it will hurt us in twenty twenty but there is no evidence of that. And I know joy you've talked about what happened with Clinton, and what, what happened when there was a presidential election. Republicans George W Bush was the one who want. And what did he do? He, he ran on, restoring the dignity of the office on bringing back, you know, the honor of the White House, and it helped him and there was not a big revolt on Republicans for going hard on. And so this is the thing that I understand there's no evidence in history. That shows that this would be a political awful pill for Democrats to swallow. Yeah. I mean to Koreans wonderful analogy Jonathan democrat definitely seemed to be dating the Republican base in the friend zone, right? Like the keep on sort of trying to kind of. Woo. You know, the Trump based by being really nice to Trump, but a weird thing. They're doing with their own base. Let me play you an example of it. Here is Jerry Nadler, who we just had congressman Jody goose who serves on his judiciary committee, under Jerry Nadler. And here's Nadler on congressman Nadler on CNN this week, are you on the same page with the speaker, Nancy Pelosi when it comes to impeach him. As I said, we are watching an inquiry now and whether we'll want. An impeachable increa-. It may come to that. That pause set a lot Jonah. What is this about? Do you have a coherent explanation as to why if the base is saying, this is why we gave Democrats power? That's the basis telling the party why is Nancy Pelosi even seem to be kind of hold her own committee, chairs in abeyance. Why? Because there's a difference I think between what the base of the party says it wants and what the what the base of the party wants and the leadership responsibilities of the people there on the hill. Yeah. Seventy six percent of the base impeachment. What the people they send to congress? Most of them, an overwhelming majority of them either haven't said where they are on impeachment or are against it. I mean, we're not at even at a halfway point their joy on the number of Democrats on the hill in the house. I'm gonna come back to. I'm not gonna I'm gonna let you finish your answer. But that is also something. I don't understand. We haven't covered Jona who's pro impeachment inquiry, which is not removing the president. It's just like the preliminary hearings. Right of grand jury in his state of Colorado. He's a guy Cory Gardner, who's up for reelection was one of the most vulnerable. Republicans, Arizona North Carolina Maine, all have vulnerable Republican seats in the Senate. It seems that the politics would be if the Republicans had this kind of opportunity would be to say, impeach Bill Clinton, and then hold it against every democrat, who refuses to convict. And then go into their states and say, look at how this person is a hypocrite why, why didn't vote to convict like the politics would seem to be pretty easy for Democrats, but they seem to think that politics be horrible. Look, I have no argument with you here on this joy. But here's the thing, the base of the Democratic Party believes that impeachment is removal and. When speaker Pelosi and other folks on, on the hill in the house side, talk about educating the public that is one of the things that has to be pushed through that impeachment is not removal. It's just I can't remember who on our air said it before it's basically an indictment of the president. But look the methodical nature that the methodical position and stance of speaker, Pelosi is about not trying to rush into something impetuously that could damage legally the case could come up against the president. I mean, we were talking about earlier this week that she said behind closed doors, it was reported that she doesn't want to see just doesn't want to see the president peach impeach. She wants to see him in prison. She wants to ensure that once he is out of office preferably in twenty twenty that everything is stacked up in a way legally airtight, so that he could be prosecuted. And then go to prison. For his crimes, which are at least obstruction. Obstruction of Justice are laid out in the mullahs report. Look, I don't disagree with anything that Koreans. Here has said, I don't disagree with anything that you say, when it comes to this, the Democrats speaker, Lucy are in a big bind here, and they're trying, she's trying to hold onto her Giardi. She would like to see democrat win win the White House. Maybe she's over over learned the lessons of the Clinton impeachment, but I do think, as I've said, from the very beginning impeachment is an inevitability it is a matter of how we get there and how long it takes. And I think that's coming sooner rather than later because the president is making it easier for the Democrats to make the case of the country that this guy is not about the rule of law. He is thumbing his nose at the constitution, and that is on top of not honoring the dignity. Respect the office in which which hold. Yeah. But be that as it may create here. I want to just play a moment of the difference between Republicans Democrats, it just stylistically Nancy Pelosi has gone to the rhetorical Defcon one saying, no he needs to be locked up. Here's how Sean Hannity respond to that. Speaker Pelosi now apparently telling senior Democrats she'd like to see Trump behind bars. Based on. No actual crime. She wants a political opponent. Locked up in prison. That happens at banana republics beyond despicable behavior. And by the way, they would literally turn in many ways, the USA into a country, we no longer recognized. Why we think about your response to that Korea. I just play while irony, we're gonna poor little bit out for irony. God rest, your soul. Irony is nice knowing you. Here's Donald Trump's rallies. What, what she's done? They shouldn't lock her up. She deleted the emails. She has to go to jail. I think Hillary is very weak. I think she's pathetic. I think she should be in jail to watch. She did with emails. It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country, because you'd be jail, your eulogy for irony Korean, John, Pierre, eulogy, fire, and look. I'll, I'll say this joy, there is a difference in the way that Republicans do their business and Democrats do their business. Look Republicans for eight years, they obstructed. They even know even know they didn't care if it was wrong. Right. Right. They fought, they fought they fought. And then they were awarded twenty ten the house, or awarded in two thousand fourteen the Senate and they got they got the presidential got the White House. Back in two thousand sixteen with, you know, win an asteroid next to that one. And the, the problem is democrat. Just need to fight Republicans fight all the time. And here's the difference in this fight is that Democrats would be on the right side of history. That's the difference. They would be on the right side of history, if they just did what they needed to do, if they started impeachment inquiries, they would have more power, actually, they have more legal standing. Yeah. Well, the marquees to Queensberry rules still apply, but only to the Democratic Party. Apparently dumped the game part out here. Thank you so much, really appreciate both of you and your thank you. All right. So after the break Laurence tribe, has what could be get this a way to break. What we've just talked about the democratic logjam and impeachment. That is next around. Donald Trump, as president delayed, deflected move, fired, and did everything he clicked to obstruct Justice, if he were any other person in the United States, based on what's documented in that report, he would be carried out in handcuffs this matters for our democracy, not just now but under the next president, and the next president, in the next president, we have a constitutional responsibility here, and that's to start impeachment proceedings, welcome back to AM joy. Well Senator Elizabeth Warren, the first presidential candidate to call for the start of impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump remains one of the most outspoken Democrats on the subject, putting her at odds with house speaker Nancy Pelosi who as political first reported said she wants to see Trump in prison, but not impeached. One of the main reasons speaker Pelosi and other Democrats are wary of impeachment is the belief that a Republican control. Senate would either just to quit Trump or Mitch McConnell might simply refuse to hold the trial at all. But what if that did matter what the house to do it on their own? That is intriguing idea constitutional scholar, Laurence tribe posed in a Washington Post, op, Ed this week. That's getting a lot of tension and professor Laurence tribe professor of constitutional law at Harvard joins me now, he's the author of to end a presidency, the power of impeachment and apropos Thome for the times. All right. Professor tribe explain how house might be able to act if the Senate refused to take up and start an impeachment trial, or would otherwise simply build in a Quito. With the house could do. Joy is fairly straightforward, and it's done it before it could hold factual hearings and reach factual conclusions. The way judiciary committee did when it concluded that Richard Nixon had committed impeachable offenses, and they were enumerated, it wasn't just like an indictment. An indictment is basically an accusation referring to somebody else for trial. But the house of representatives is quite capable of reaching a verdict and not just an indictment. And that's what I've proposed it should do now in the process of the hearings the house might educate the public and finally Mitch McConnell might give in and the whole thing might go in a direction that Nancy Pelosi, I think quite rightly says is not very likely, but who's afraid of the big bad turtle here, we don't have to worry about what McConnell is going to do what the Senate will do in the case of John Adams, for example in eighteen hundred. There was a big controversy over the fact that he extradited an American citizen to Britain for having engaged in mutiny on a British warship. There's a lot of debate in. In the house. They weren't ready to impeach him. Maybe in part because they didn't think the Senate would convict but they were ready to debate, whether the house could condemn him could find that he had violated the rights of an American citizen. There's a big debate on whether the house has the power to condemn or censure reach its own verdict. Then that debate the winning side was, yes. The house has this thirty now in that case by vote of about sixty four to thirty or something they decided that Adams, did not deserve to be censured or condemned. But my sense, is that after a full hearing where the president and his lawyers would be invited to make a presentation. Of course, they would they would say, no, thanks. But they would have a full opportunity and it would be a kind of trial, not exactly a trial. It is only the Senate that has the power to try impeachments but. You don't have to be afraid of what the Senate would do. If the Senate is in the president's hip pocket, then you can simply stiff the Senate and say, we find that the president committed high crimes and misdemeanors. But we're not gonna do you the favor of tossing you what looks like an indictment, so you can shred it in the McConnell shredder that, that is, because you're essentially saying, is that the house could enough itself have is with the judiciary committee, that would hold these hearings that would then come to a vote and conclusion that in the view of the house impeachable offense. We're committed now number one could would subpoena power apply to that trot to that house trial. Oh, absolutely. The power to issue subpoenas, and make people like Don Mcgann, and any McDonald, and hope Hicks, and all the others testify would be supercharge by the fact that this was an impeachment inquiry. And there are plenty of precedents in the courts, saying that the house power to demand documents and live testimony, which we need here is at its absolute apex, when it is looking to the possibility of impeaching a sitting officer, a sitting president on top of that. The grand jury secrecy rules rule. Six e we've heard so much about have an exception when you're engaged in an impeachment inquiry, so the books would be opened, there would be a transparent public hearing. The public could be finally, educated, people who don't have time to read the mullahs reporter listened to over a thousand federal prosecutors who say that the Muller report already shows criminal, obstruction of jus-. It would be really the best way to go. And in fact, the house would be much more than like a grand jury considering you know, when a grand jury considers an indictment their secrecy. The public doesn't get to see it. The defendant, doesn't get to be represented. Well, when the house considered impeachment possibilities against Richard Nixon, he was invited to appear. He chose not to, but he said, his lawyer James Saint Clair. So I would imagine we could see that Trump lawyers making an argument against finding the president guilty of taking advantage of a foreign power and doing a lot of other things that are well beyond the reach of the mullahs report, the kind of thing that the southern district of New York called him, an unindicted co-conspirator for there are ample grounds to remove this president. But if the Senate won't do its duty that doesn't mean that the house shouldn't do its duty the house after all. An independent body. It is the people's house, it really should stand duty under the constitution. Yeah. To your point that we're just a parade of witnesses that one could imagine calling just mentioned the stormy, Dan situation. She could be called the lawyers that she used to negotiate that deal Mabel, Michael Cohen. There's another potential witness in such a trial. This is one John Dowd. Donald Trump's former lawyer, here's a voicemail that he left in November of twenty seventeen and this call with Robert Kelner, who was the attorney for General Michael Flynn, who was imminently going to cooperate with the Muller probe. Listen to this. Yeah. Shing. Persian. Then we've got a national security issue or maybe mashing them all. Some as you got to deal with. Oh. So. You know. And, you know, we need sometime heads up. So for the sake of. Protecting all on this just become. And what you had here was a Mr. doubt, apparently being really angry that the Michael Flynn team, would no longer share information with the Trump team. And there seemed to be dangling something that we're gonna tell the president that you, no longer with him, could someone like Dowd be called before that kind of inquiry. What you're describing in the house. Absolutely. What I listen to that. I thought if James Gandolfini hadn't passed away that might have been Tony soprano, a lot of these guys could be called. There's no defense would not be protected by executive privilege. Lots of normal privileges. Don't apply. Anyway, when you're engaged in a new quarry of the highest significance it was called a grand inquest of the house. This is the kind of inquests that's needed. So although I respect NC Pelosi as a woman as a politician as a leader, I think that she's got the constitutional little bit wrong here. She is assuming that. Launching an impeachment inquiry, which is surely the duty of the house, if this person should not be at least investigated for impeachable offenses than the impeachment power is ripped out of the constitution, but she's Suming that launching an impeachment inquiry puts you on a collision course with the stonewall represented by McConnell and the GOP in the Senate. It doesn't if the Senate continues to shirk its duty in say, case closed the house can say it's not closed at all. We are reaching our own conclusion after a full and fair hearing we find that Donald J Trump has committed the following serious criminal offenses, the following high crimes and misdemeanors. You know, it's possible that quit him. They shouldn't decide before they have the inquiry, but the likelihood is he'd be convicted and there'd be a negative verdict and he would carry. Around his neck as a kind of his forehead would be stamped with a scarlet. He would bear the Mark of Cain when he goes into the election. I think it's a silly prospect to say that he would be strengthened he would claim vindication. He could always claim indication that's his style. But the American people are not as stupid as he seems to think they are not, and they need to be educated by impeachment inquiry that could be begun and ended in the house of representatives. Simply a mistake to think that the Senate is an indispensable part of that process, and let me ask you this final question, professor tribe, because this is the one that Democrats ask the most who are pushing back on what you've just said, they will say what's the point of impeaching Donald Trump? If he is not actually removed that if he's not removed from office. What's the point? Well, the point is to do your constitutional duty to set the record straight for history to Mark him with that scarlet. He would then probably be rejected by the American people in an election when there have been a number of censures of presidents, or near sensors cannon was actually censured by the house. No one who has been the subject of serious. Censure efforts has ever been re elected to the presidency. It seems to me a big mistake, because Stoorikhel and functionally to assume that as Salam conclusion after a fair hearing in the house, would not at least wound this president in a way that would make a big difference. And if the Senate begins to stand up and actually do its duty as it ought to then every Senator will be on record. And as you pointed out earlier, there are states like Colorado, Arizona. Sonal main North Carolina, where sitting senators are up for re election, I think they would be hard pressed to say that what has been revealed and would be revealed. And all these hearings is all just fine. It's fine to have a president who pays attention to his own bottom line and not to the bottom lines of ordinary American families. That's not fine. It's not fine. Have a president who violates the emoluments clauses violates the federal election laws to get elected who invites help from a hostile foreign power to get elected accepts that help. That's not fine. And it is definitely not fine for the house of representatives to say, never mind we have other work to do. They can do that work while they hold this president to account. And that is what they owe to the constitution of the United States into the American people. Professor Laurence tribe the best person to talk to on this with eight and very novel idea that the house could act on its own irrespective of what Mitch McConnell wants to do fascinating. I hope everyone will read your piece. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. And coming up at twenty twenty contender was just listening to the conversation that I had with the tribe, and we will hear what key has to say about it next. Do you know most people think that impeachment means you're out of office? They think that you get impeach. You're gone, and that is completely not true. It's an indictment. So when you're impeaching somebody, you wanna make sure you have the strongest possible indictments because it's not the means to the end. The people think all you do vote to impeach. Bye, bye birdie. The impeachment fight is threatening to tear apart speaker, Nancy, Pelosi's democratic caucus. And yet she remains cautious over pushing the constitutional button among those who is taking quite a different approach, and ramping up their messages on peach -ment are some of the twenty twenty presidential candidates, and one of them joins me. Now, let me now is democratic congressman and presidential candidate Seth Moulton and congressman for being here. Thank you. There's a little bit of delays. I'm just wanted people that 'cause I'm overseas but you to be blunt. We're one of the Democrats who essentially were opposed to speaker Pelosi taking on the second term as speaker. I wanna play some of the criticism that you had of her at that time this is sound by two for my for my team since two thousand eight when she took the speaker's gavel, we have thirty fewer seats than we did when she took over. So this actually really hasn't gone. Well, and when you look at some. Of the amazingly talented leaders that we have in our caucus, including some incredible women like Marcia fudge who I hope will run. She's my mentor. I think you'll see what a new generation of your ship will mean for this caucus and for the Democratic Party, and ultimately for the American people. You've got fairly, well pilloried for that, by a lot of democratic women who are still smarting from the potential first woman president, having lost in the electoral college, when you look back on that criticism, do you now wish that your criticism had been more on something? Like what we're dealing with now on the fact that the current leadership is very cautious. And the base of the party is very ramped up to have dramatic change into really rain in this president. This was never about Nancy Pelosi, it was about the top three leaders in our party who have been in the house for a combined total of almost one hundred years. And I think it's time for a new generation of leadership, a new generation of ideas and an opportunity for this amazing freshman class. The most diverse is stork freshman class, we've ever had in the house of representatives to actually get a chance to lead. So as a result of having that democratic debate in the house, we got the voting rights subcommittee. We got the climate change committee, and we got an agreement on term limits that did two things. First of all gave Pelosi the vote she needed to become speaker could because she didn't have the votes and second, it got this agreement on term limits. So this new generation of leaders will actually get a chance to lead now I think it's important to say joy that Pelosi has done a fantastic job of standing up to Trump. Inter meetings at the White House. I mean these have become iconic and I think she deserves a lot of credit for her leadership there. But I do disagree with her on impeachment. I think that I think she's wrong on this, because although she makes a good political argument for why the politics, maybe difficult. What about just doing the right thing by the constitution? I mean, that is our duty. I swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution, not my political party. And the constitution is very clear here that we should be having this debate in the house. Well, I think we could debate on whether or not the votes, I think that she was going to become speaker, just say, my my, my whip count, just in looking at the politics here for her. They were pretty strong going in anyway. But I think didn't. She, she didn't she needed? She only one. The speaker by speaker vote by five and the term limits deal got her seven votes, so she didn't actually have the votes. But the point is that when we're talking about right now, the professor from Harvard is right, the good old Harvard professor has got the nail on the head, which is that we have a constitutional duty to have this debate, and that's why I voted for this voted for moving forward with impeachment long before Elizabeth Warren or any of the other twenty twenty candidates came out in favor of it back in December of twenty seventeen. I voted with just fifty eight other House Democrats to move forward on this debate and over the past couple of weeks, I've had more and more colleagues coming to coming to our side and joining this position, because we feel it's just simply the right thing to do. We have a constitution because this debate as you said, it was as you said it was fifty eight people who voted on the impeachment to move forward on why so few because it does seem that at least at present speaker. Pelosi is more Representative. She speaks for more members of the caucus than you do. So why is it still such a small relative number of Democrats who agree with yourself and most of the presidential contenders? Well, it's a good question, and I think there definitely is some political concern about the fallout here. I look at look at it this way, there's the political issue, the politics of whether or not it makes sense. And then there's the legal issue of the constitutional issue for me the constitution always comes first. And I think that it's very clear. It was clear back in two thousand seventeen that the president is violating the law with, with the Muller report coming out, it's even more clear. And I believe that is more members of the caucus read the report and really think about this from a constitutional perspective. They're in their positions. Part of the reason why it's taking some time it's always hard to change your position in politics. But a lot of colleagues are moving in this direction. I haven't talked to anyone who's moving in the other direction who says that you're she was four impeachment before. And now as against the tide is clearly shifting in our direction, and I do believe that, that eventually, we'll get to the point where we'll we'll, we'll probably vote that way as cock. And could you see the scenario the professor try put forward with the house? Not only does it impeachment inquiry. But goes ahead and holds the whole trial within the house of representatives ignores. The Senate and says, Senate do what you're gonna do, but the house is going to impeach. And also have a finding if in fact, the finding goes that way that Donald Trump committed impeachable offenses or even high crimes, or even crimes here. Yes. Yes. No. I, I think that's absolutely right. And it's really not a novel idea because that's what myself and some of these other folks in the minority here have been advocating for for a while for having this debate. Remember when the debate started over Richard Nixon, the American people were not on the side of impeachment either. But because we had this debate in congress before the American people. More evidence was brought out the case was made and indeed public opinion, shifted dramatically. Now, I think the interesting thing that professor, try points out is that he's made the case that not only is this the right thing to do on constitutional grounds. But he thinks the politics are on the side of impeachment as well. And I think that this might be right. And this is a place where I've changed my opinion before. I said, the politics are bad, but the constitutional duty is, is the right thing to do now. I think the politics are shifting favor of this as well, because I think there's more than enough evidence to make this case before the American people. We just need to see the facts. Yeah. I wanna make a quick turn here you are running as one of two. I believe veterans who are running for the United States presidency. I wanna play you a little bit of the current president talking on good morning Britain. The programme. Good morning Britain about his non experience with the. Not able to serve in then because of the condition fate you wish she'd been able to get Electra surge. Well, I was never a fan of that war, I'll be honest with you. I thought it was a terrible war thought it was very far away, nobody ever, you know, you're talking about Vietnam at that time nobody ever heard of the country. This isn't like I'm fighting against Nazi Germany. I'm fighting fighting against Hitler. As a veteran yourself. What do you make of that answer? What the president is saying is that he thought it was okay for another American to go in his place to eat nam, and that's the part that he doesn't seem to understand, is that when he didn't show up when he lied about his feet to dodge the draft and avoid serving himself wasn't like the richest empty seat in Vietnam, with, with Donald Trump's name on it. No, there's a great American hero, who went in his place. I didn't agree with the Iraq war. I was very outspoken against the Iraq war, but I never wanted someone to go in my place. And that's why went and I went back three more times for a total of four tours. And a lot of other veterans have done the same thing. There are a lot of, of reinstalled, or sailors, airmen that went with me to Iraq, even though we disagreed with the war, but we knew that by being there, we have a bigger impact than by being back home complaining about it. And we didn't want anyone to go in our places. All right. Got Carson Seth Moulton. You're gonna make the debate stage in Miami. I'm not gonna make the first debate. No. I don't think so I knew that getting late. I have a seven month old daughter at home. So simply wasn't an option to get an earlier. But the response on the ground has been fantastic. And ultimately, this, this election is not going to be decided by the DNC debate, it's going to be decided by the American people. So that's where I'm focusing my efforts. All right, Multan, one of three correct myself three military veterans who are running for the United States presidency. The Buddha judge until Gabbard. Thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And coming up Prime Minister, Theresa may, is gone, but brings it still here. Great. We'll talk about it next. Donald Trump couldn't help, but try to get involved in Brexit this week, and it went how you'd expect stay with us. When Donald Trump says that the reports of London that a no go areas. I think he's portraying a quite stupefying ignorance that makes him frankly, unfit to hold the office of president of the United States. Been a friend of mine. He's been very nice. I have a very good relationship with them. Well, Donald Trump, didn't get the chance to meet with his supposed friend Boris Johnson, whilst in the UK Johnson is currently a top contender to replace Theresa May as Britain's prime minister when she leaves, but he declined to meet with Trump during his visit opting instead for pre phone call, but Trump did manage to hang with right. Wing probe Riddick. Brexit leader, Nigel Farraj. Joining me now is NBC news. Correspondent here savings and MSNBC contributor Christopher Dickey of Christopher. Where's the love of Donald loves Boris Johnson? But appears to be a one way love. Well, it does seem to be a one way, love when you look at it like that. I mean, certainly when you have somebody calling, you stupefyingly ignorant that doesn't suggest great affection. But the fact is the fact is both of them are headed in the same direction in terms of populism far, right politics, Brexit. In the case of Boris Johnson ten just the general trend of American government, under Donald Trump all that puts them not in lockstep. But at least in, in sort of the same direction, the problem is that Boris Johnson really does think that Donald Trump is stupid, because, of course Johnson really is very smart. And he is typical British right wing, electoral. Whereas Trump is, you know, he's basically a thug from Manhattan real estate man. Yeah. I wonder how sixty moment, let me tell you really quickly the other person. That's kind of on the table. He was Nigel Farraj. And his, his discussion because he did get a meeting with Trump tasteless. Oviously. He absolutely believes in Brexit things. It's the right thing for the country to do and he's concerned that it seems to be taking a very long time. And therefore, he is very interested in as to who the next conservative leader and prime minister is. How important to in meshed in the far right overall, European movement is Donald Trump. Is he a ten gentle figure Christopher or is he somebody that they consider the people like national fraud considered to be a true compatriot, sort of ban? A Knight fellow traveler. I think Nigel Peraj really does feel that Trump is very helpful to him. And maybe he can be helpful to Trump in some ways. They really are definitely on the same page on a lot of things. A lot of the rest of the far right in Europe has been a little bit uncomfortable with, with Trump and in fact, they're uncomfortable with each other Faraj for instance, nothing to do with being lapenne. They're all little bit afraid of Matteo Salvini, the new neo-fascist power in Italian politics. So there isn't a unified. Right. But when it comes to Donald Trump, they all see that he has opened the way for the kind of basically white nationalism that they all subscribe to. And then let me come to you on this care, because that is an awkward place for the British Tories, the conservative party here to be right. Theresa May is maybe not the most popular leader that Britain has ever had, but she's not marine Le Pen Viktor Orban's or Salvini. So if I wonder where where are the British Conservatives now with you sort of biting at their heels and insisting on the most draconian Briggs it possible. Well, I think you not just for the Brexit policy, very likely to drag the conservative policy mall towards Brexit. And at the same time, only the British Conservative policy on most worried about the socialist leader of the opposition, the most left-wing leader of Britain's opposition that this country has seen for decades. And so they all going to try to cling, on four FIA that, if they an election that the labor party might be elected, and that's one of the reasons joy, why think this country may be heading for constitutional crisis because ultimately, whether it's Jones all member, the policy, we like to see a prime minister who is going to be very pro Brexit. So the executive led by very pro Brexit prime minister while the parliament has made clear that it does not want Brexit in the hardest possible form. And in the end Brexit decision it was a division. And we are seeing those divisions play doubts. And we may be heading for the final two. Well that how that funnel, it'd be written. Now that's a question. I count on, sir. Yeah. One of the things that concerns that have been raised by people in the British left that I've seen interest in the media. Is that what Donald Trump alternately wants is bilateral deal in which he the US multinationals in to the drugs world or the insurance? World can encroach start to carve up Britain's national health services. Is that something that really is a threat that could really happen? Well, Donald Trump back on. But did say that news conference that the national national health service would be part of the negotiations. There are many people who criticize the British not sure how his hair in the UK. But everybody the same time is extremely proud of it. I'm one of its achievements, which is very difficult to all you with has kept drug prices down. And so the warriors if it wasn't a go. See with US pharmaceuticals that the, the expectation that the mom obey the drug prices would have to go up, and that would have detrimental effect, of course, for the health of people in the UK very simplistic way to, to talk about it. But what it does it a straight is that the negotiations with the US off to break say, not going to be as simple as President Trump and all the pro Brexit politicians in the u k I like to suggest that isn't to say that you these the politics is so different. And so difficult to predict these that's to say, I'm not fully convinced that if happened quickly that wouldn't be a real push on both sides to try and get negotiations. Dawn between the Britain and the America, the UK. But there are lots of. Hurdles, yeah. Christopher dickey. I wonder for how long can Britain, sort of remain kind of in the middle. You've got the these really far right? Some would say DO fascist parties that are pushing for power throughout Europe. You've got this kind of freeing of the Atlantic alliance Britney this weird middle where they've still got this conservative party that wants to style itself in the old form. That's got this trans Atlantic alliance. It's sort of dorm conservative party. They too have, you know, this far right thing knocking at their door for how long do you think Britain can kind of resist that tide and can Europe resist it? First of all, we're Britain is concerned. It's a complete mess. I mean, we really are seeing the democratic process in Great Britain completely discredited by the process, we've seen with Brexit over the last three years. I mean when we talk about a new minister, who's going to be the new leader of the conservative party, and the new prime minister, we're not talking about a choice, it's going to be made by forty eight million voters in Great Britain. We're talking about a choice. It's going to be made one hundred twenty five thousand members of the conservative party. That's not democratic at all. We think the electoral party is bad. This is disaster if there were general election right now, maybe Jeremy Corbyn would win. Maybe somebody else would win, but I can tell you who would lose dramatically disastrously would be the Tories, which is like saying, they don't want to go to General Electric. But that's the of the solution when you've got three years of lousy Brexit policy. So, you know, Britain in the middle Britain is falling apart. And if they think that America's going to give them a good trade. Deal. They're completely nuts. I think Simon Shaw, the historian called it best. Trump is like a hyena waiting to gobble them up. Once they get out of the European Union. Wow. And then to that point, then care Simmons, where is the labor party, because Jeremy Corbyn is the only game in town for the labor party. What happened to this party that had such dominance in British politics for so long? What happened to them? Oh, I think you can exaggerate, you know, the slide in the two main polities, the labor party, and the conservative politics based on recent selections. There's a lotta history suggests that those policies come roaring back in terms of Jeremy date of the labor party. He has one objective in mind. And that's to try to become become prime minister himself, his problem is that his vote to the split between pro Brexit and unsee Brexit. And so he's trying to sit in the middle and keep the focus on things like health care, that labor, traditionally does well on, I would say one thing that in terms of Chris is not obviously, he's not a he's brilliant. But in terms of Britain in crises, I just wonder whether you can look by the nineteen seventies on the crises that were in the UK in the nineteen seventies and really Britain recovered from that and see some kind of positivity that you can't just say that this is a crisis. An existential crisis for the UK. We shall see talking with you guys fascinating conversation cures for Dickey. Thank you, both very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you coming up. We will tell you why the Saudis are going to dare it. That's next. Had there been something that actually wasn't affairs at that meeting came up. Maybe we would have done something different. But the reality is, is that the meeting was a total waste of time that you mail that I got on my iphone at the time basically said show, but for didn't scroll down. I never would have thought about that had subject again. I would get about two hundred fifty emails a day. And so I literally saw shell but four showed a four but only if the to get I don't know it's hard to do hypotheticals, but the reality is that we were not giving anything that with salacious. White House senior adviser and presidential slash baby. Professional son in law, Jared Kushner, sat down for a revealing interview with axios this week just ahead of haunting. I'm sorry. I mean joining Donald Trump's state visit to the UK, join me now Vicky ward, investigative journalist and author of Kushner, Inc. I wanna get your reaction to that. 'cause Derek couldn't seem. And thank you for being here. Vicki to answer the question of whether or not it would be a bad thing to take further assistance from foreign power should it be offered again. What do you make of that? Well, I think that it just proves the theory of, of my book Kushner, AIG, which is really a time devoted to explaining how Jared Kushner and his wife van, Cott Trump, just really don't believe in rules, including the rule of law. They disdain rules, they think that other people perhaps much poorer people. You know, I think another very revealing moment in that interview with axios was when he wouldn't aunt. So the question about whether Kushner companies dealings with Deutsche Bank should be investigated for money laundering, and he bumped the question and talked about how it was ridiculous that, quote, on quote successful, people like him presumably should be prohibited from going into government because of that business interests. The irony about that, it's that very successful people joined the Trump administration, I can think of Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state, who unlike Jared Kushner divested himself of everything he did it by, by the rules, and the person who pushed him out of the Trump administration was Jared Kushner. Yeah. It's an interesting thing because it's not clear really his role. Seems to be everything. Right. It's that he is the everything adviser, one of the things that Jared Kushner has been named busy adviser on is supposedly, to create a Middle East peace deal, peace deal, drying, the Palestinians and the Israelis I wanna play you bite from the same access interview in which he seemed to be talking about the investment potential of potential, Palestinian state, but not actually talking to any Palestinians. Take a listen. This is to do you believe that the Palestinians capable of governing themselves without interference? I think that's a very good question. I think that, that's one that we'll have to see the hope is that they over time can become capable of governing being the Palestinian, Palestinian. I do think that in order for the area to be investable for investors to come in and want to invest in different industry, and infrastructure and create jobs, you need to have a fair judicial system. You need to have freedom of press, freedom of expression tolerance. For all religions have freedom from any Isreaeli governmental military interference. I think that it's a it's a high bar, I think, would you need to figure out is what is a way that you could have both people live in peace. Vicky. What are the points that Jonathan swan made in that interview is that both Jared, and the other two members of the negotiating team, including the US ambassador to Israel are all seemingly on one ideological side and Jared family has even invested in settlements? How can he be the person that Palestinians would trust to make a peace deal when he seems to be thinking about their investment potential, but not talking to them? Well. I've spoken to so many people in the Middle East Krishna Inc. My book is really about the Kushner, Trump's and the Middle East. That commercial interests. This is cooled the peace plan it should really be cooled. Jared Kushner and Donald Trump's big gift gift gift of, of a lifetime to be be Netanyahu. You just can't get away from the fact that Bibi Netanyahu is a very, very old and very close friend of the cushion of families he famously stayed in Jared, Kushner's bedroom when Jared was child. And so, of course, the Palestinians failed that this is totally. Gridlocks against them. And the idea that Jared Kushner would have been talking to Palestinians on the street. I tell you, my suicides, laugh when they hit that, like, okay, the only street Jared Kushner has been talking. It's the equivalent of Park Avenue in Riyadh. Yeah. Let me also another thing I think it was stood out a lot in this interview was his weird reaction when he's asked about his relationship with Saudi leader jemele, the Saudi leader in regard to the murder of democracy. Take a listen. How many have you had with mob at been south on about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi again? The discussions I have with, whether it's individual Palestinians or with world leaders with other people, I keep those discussions to myself, the people who need to know about them in our government that are it's related to the jobs that they're doing. They know about those discussions. The Senate has unanimously said, Mohammad bin Salman auditors the briefed members of the Senate voted that way. I don't know what the administration's waiting for in terms of accountability. I believe that there's a report that they're working on they've been doing investigation. And when they have the facts the investigation, then it'll be up to the president to make determination on what he wants to do. What do you make of that? Okay. So Saudi Arabia is crucial. For delivering this great gift to be be Netanyahu. The Jared has set up Dale with Muhammad bin Salman, that had Bill summon will pay for it, essentially. So with Jared Kushner money matters more than anything else, which is why he looked so horrified. And disdainful Jonathan swan was even asking him. This question telling him that he wasn't going to divulge top secret conversations. The interesting thing is that when Rex Tillerson was secretary of state, he found that Jared Kushner wouldn't divulge his top secret conversations with Muhammad bin Salman, a very erotic repressive. Indeed carried out the merger of Jamal kashogi, Rex Tillerson would would couldn't find out what Jared Kushner. I'm haven't been discussing what's happ, and he was the secretary of state. So I don't know Jared Kushner, thinks should be. To his conversations. But it sounds like he doesn't think anyone should be. And that is really bad for our national security. Absolutely Vicky war we didn't even have time to get into Bertha wisdom. The book Kushner, Inc. Thank you very much for being here at your time. I'll have to have you back. More amdur? Thank you. New for meet the press. Chuck Todd cast, it's an insider's take on politics. The twenty twenty election in more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things we usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

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Episode 32: The John Hofmeister Interview

#hottakeoftheday

53:39 min | 1 year ago

Episode 32: The John Hofmeister Interview

"All right. Welcome to a special hot takeover. You're not commute where I expect that you're probably stuck in a house Somewhere you probably walk to your to your family office and And now you're working and so we have this This zoom first zoom video that we've done and have John Hofmeister joining us. I'm very excited. I here's a fascinating background. And with everything going on in the oil market in the world market it's going to be a great discussion so John. Welcome to the show. Thank you David. Lovely to be here so For for those. Who Don't know you I. I did some research on you beforehand. And there's a lot plus. I love the your socio with a lot of universities. I feel like if I just show up at any town. You're going to be like teaching a class. So why don't you tell the listeners? A little bit about yourself and your background Before we tee off course ation well. I've had a career at a number of manufacturing companies starting with Ge. I also worked at Alliedsignal Aerospace Business and also northern telecom and telecommunications business and then I finished my career at Royal Dutch Shell and I was originally signed to a position in The Hague a global edition and after oh about eight years of that. I was Made the President of Shell Oil Company. That put me in charge of all the US operations of Shell ranging from the upstream oil drilling and exploration business. The chemicals business the downstream oil and gas business. So all the shell stations all the Jiffy Lube stores It it was all part and parcel of what I looked after every day. I didn't realize this shell owned Jiffy Lube. Do they still own Jiffy? Yes it was. An acquisition made all probably fifteen years ago. It's been a very very good acquisition and Jiffy Lube of courses. The Nation's leading quick change quick oil change a franchise operation and they do very well and they particularly emphasize other pennzoil which was part of Jiffy Lube when we bought it and also So we jello pennzoil shallows shells own You know proprietary oil products as well lubricants and lubricants are very big part of the oil and gas business. So for all of that I retired from. Shell in two thousand and eight and then I started a career as a writer a speaker of board member and professor. And I'm still doing all four. Which which do you enjoy the most? Oh it's it's hard to tell just enjoy the variety. The board being on board keeps my toes into water so to speak from a business standpoint while I'm not running a company any longer I'm involved. In the strategic decision making that affects a several companies and the teaching is fantastic because uh teaching upper class and graduate students and talk about you know a stimulating environment And and to deal with energy and the future of the environment with the next generation of leaders is just fantastic. Enjoy seeing if there is a state at Kansas State and also University of Houston not all at the same time of course but I- alternate semesters and since I live in Houston I do teach every semester at University of Houston I was GonNa say with with the new with the new world of Zoom and and Aw Online and offline. It's going to be interesting to see how universities evolving adapt to more online content for maybe students who aren't participating or don't want to necessarily move to the campus. I remember when I did my. Mba was an executive MBA and it was one of the first videoconference technologies that had been pioneered at Queens University in Canada they partnered with Cornell and so we did all our classes this way and what was interesting was there was devices to be able to ring in and ask questions or share screens and everything was submitted on line and so really was very much a classroom experience with seven people in the same conference room. We all worked together. We were all on camera and that was that was how we did it. And that was in two thousand six. Yeah well that's the technology has continued to improve as the years have gone by. I'm currently teaching about fifty students a semester. On Bio Zoom. We started the semester in the classroom. And with the Arenavirus we moved online around March twenty third and so far so good I do miss the personal inter play with individuals the ability to really look a person in the eye to see their head nod see their their eyes brighten up when something registers with them and so I I do miss that dynamic but it's channel it does work But I'm I'm looking forward to getting back in the classroom soon as we can so so. There's a couple topics I really wanted to talk to you about today. Obviously it's really hard to have a conversation that doesn't include a conversation around the kernel virus and the impact and when that comes so if you have any opinions on that we'll come back to that but I wanted to start with executive compensation and your role on boards. And you know I'm not going to ask you to take a controversial position but certainly in the energy industry the ES g movement has been interesting. Be Very curious about your thoughts but but as you think about where energies been an executive compensation and some of the choices you have as a board member. I'm how how do you think through it? And and if you happen to see the whiting announcement earlier this week in WanNa make any comments be my guest. Well I I think the executives who see their roles in a major company which is a publicly held company in particular enriching themselves at the expense of others. I abhor that and as a board member I would never support a move by the management of a company to take care of themselves. First and shareholders second or employees even worse third. I think it's abhorrent behavior. I think that they risked ruining their reputation over it and I have zero. Interest in seeing a seeing people take advantage of situations to just take care of themselves I spent my executive career working in a company that is registered in the UK with a very strong Dutch culture and so I lived executive remuneration into European setting. I can tell you that when I was the head of human resources of Royal Dutch. Shell A. Global job we targeted the CEO of Royal Dutch. Shell to be paid at approximately ten to fifteen percent of what was being paid to us. Ceo's of equivalent oil company. So if I think that there is an outrageous level of salary currently in place and outrageous level of benefits in place for CEOS in particular who don't deserve what they make to me somebody making forty or forty five million dollars a year when it's not them. That's doing all the work. It's the people in the organization with do the work. I have sympathy for that. I think it's outrageous. I don't think anyone is worth that amount of money including by the way athletes and celebrities. Let's not forget it's not just corporate executives who are making way over the top in terms of executive remuneration rain. It's also individuals. Be They golfers. Be They football players or be. They musicians other kind of artists. I I just think there's a point at which it divides society and I think it polarized those who have and those who have not and there's just it's outrageous. I think other parts of the world don't seem to have a shortage of executive talent or good athletes and they pay a fraction of what we do in this country. Some say well that's that's freedom of capitalism in America. I say well yeah. I think we've exceeded the limits by frankly. Yeah and and it's interesting because when you think about that stand trump board and then I would say that certainly historically one would look. My father in. Law was on a number of boards in Canada us through the CEO of Transcanada pipelines before he passed last year. And and so I hear tons of stories about boards very similar to what you're talking about around compensation and asking some of the tough questions and yet it seems like when you read some of the decisions that boards are proving. How do you end up with a disconnect and and do you think that the corona virus and some of the restructuring that may go on with some of these loans and federal government intervention? Do you think that it's going to change that? On the on the executive compensation side. Or how do you feel that the US will move forward? It's hard to say the. Us Culture is very strong and the ability of people to get rich in the US has always been quite frankly strength of society. Where the entrepreneurs I think the people that break new ground a person like Bill Gates broke new ground Elon Musk at Tesla. Breaking new ground. I and many others Just pick out those two. Because they're always in the news. I think the entrepreneurs are in a different situation then the run of the mill. Ceo Executive of a major company who is inheriting a well run Organization for the most part they add their own value their own leadership which is good. But I don't think it takes forty five or fifty million dollars to an individual to do that because I know from my experience in the whole rest of the world nobody else pays these rates and I think it's it's something that the shareholders themselves Have to put up pressure. On the pay that the board approves the board works for shareholders. The board does not work for the CEO. And that's by the rules. That's how it's supposed to work so bored sometimes get swept up in well. We need to be competitive rain. How do we know we're competitive? Well let's use a third party consultant expert. Tell us how we will be competitive. And it's in the interest of the remuneration Experts to keep ratcheting up pay because that increases their revenue because then they get to sell their information to other boards and advise them of the same. And what you don't WanNa see happening boards losing CEO's because other companies snacks them up with higher packages. So it's it's a very complex issue but I think that to create so many individual but EPA great so much wealth for so many individuals is I think harmful to the way companies are run and The other arguments that used as well of a CEO fails and never get another job. Well maybe he shouldn't have another job that pays an theories and those kinds of benefits and I think the. Us government actually contributed to the excessive pay a corporate executives when they changed some tax rules in the early nineteen nineties. They made it impossible to deduct the cost of the CEO's pay above a million dollars so they couldn't write it off on their taxes. So what companies do they created this Phantom pay mechanism called options stock options and they granted incredible amounts of stock options on a probability that many of them will never pay off and so the executive is not going to ever achieve what they would otherwise have earned and so they use a bigger bigger number in order to satisfy the CEO. You're she's being taken care of. But when the options don't deliver there's no money transferring to the executive so sometimes the pay packages as announced are never delivered because the stock doesn't rise according to what it was expected to do and so the options turn out to be worth zero over the course of my career. I've had multiple years of zero option BAILLIEU Which I never made the kind of money that otherwise would have had the stock value company rates that really does putsch but CEO's in touch with their shareholders and so if their shareholders aren't happy about other companies doing the CEO is not going to get paid for that because you options will will not be above their grant value which means they've heard them nothing well and I think that that's probably you know in in this specific case awaiting. I think that's where there was an unusual amount. I mean obviously we're in a very tough space in oil and gas so we're gonNA talk about that. Most energy companies have seen their stocks under perform the market for the last ten years. Certainly for the last five years and in many cases you know companies lake waiting. Were already on the verge of bankruptcy and then four days before filing ended up going getting the board to approve a very very substantial upfront cash payment for the for the executive team and and I was actually really surprised with just the amount of of anger from folks in industry who you know I if the numbers were more reasonable. Maybe I don't know half a million bucks or three quarters of a million bucks to run a multibillion dollar company. That's going to go through bankruptcy. I think people would have been okay but when it was when it was those numbers and in particular fifty million dollars for five executives to run a company that had fallen in value ninety five percent over the course of their three year duration and driven the company into bankruptcy. It felt it felt like it wasn't a pay for performance culture and so I hope that on the other side of this both in energy and for all companies that there's more of a pay for performance culture and and we'll see how that goes so. Let's let's talk about the Energy Markets. And you know we've seen some interesting news. Come across the line in the last couple of days where you know clearly. The market's oversupplied and trump tweeted yesterday that he had conversations with NBS Putin and said they're gonNA cut ten or fifteen million barrels now. I don't think he added the per day. And so I'm quite concerned at the fifteen million barrels they're talking about is like over thirty days. Five hundred thousand barrels. A day in the markets rallied for the wrong reason. But we're up thirty percent. I'm curious your views on the last month since March seventh. And what we've seen with the collapse of OPEC's PL- OPEC's plus and others. Yes I think. The number one issue that is leading to the really desolate views of the oil and gas industry. Right now we'd call it demand destruction and what that means is people just aren't buying so when you ground eighty percent of the airplanes that fly that's eighty percent less aviation fuel. You're going to use if you have shelter in place for a couple of hundred million Americans who are following the rules not commuting to work or not going on vacation trips or weekend trips then you're you're destroying upwards of fifty percent or more of the demand for gasoline. If you're not putting miles on your car you're not going to go get an oil change. And so there's a whole and then if you're if you're economy is in recession then the petrochemical industry is going to get hit right in the nose. Because you're not gonNA need to make so many chemicals or various and sundry industrial applications because the whole economy has slowed down so it's the the oil and gas industry is being hit from every direction including the natural gas industry that makes electricity with so many people at home. You don't need the heat. And who'll and shopping center the way you normally would. Because the shopping centers close factories are closed. So they're not drawing on the natural gas or the electricity supply that would normally run the factories. So everything's getting everything's being pumped out of the ground. Both oil natural gas at the rate at which it was producing back on March seventh right. So it's all surplus to the demand right now and that's why we call it. Demand Destruction and so the energy company see this tremendous collapse in the Commodity price which is really their their lifeblood. The the price of oil the price of natural gas at the well really determines Their future ability to continue to pump more gas or two for oil or to explore gas or oil. And when you look at the history or the evolution of the industry over time what you see is the industry has about one hundred fifty years of experience. We've been drilling for oil and natural gas going way back to the eighteen sixties seventies eighties. And here we are in the twenty twenty and so it's been a tremendously valuable product and the the the separating poverty from well in nations like the US or all of Europe or most of you know Asia it's been the energy system the availability of electrons and molecules which has separated the wealthy countries of the world from the impoverished countries of the world. And so it's a very valuable product. You cannot have a modern quality of life where we strive because we have electrons available to us for everything including this loom in action Without the the natural gas or the oil or the you know the color of the nuclear energy that we produce and use so I think that the demand that has slumped is probably I hope a short term issue but the overproduction of the industry has been going on for a say about the last two and a half three years and we really have to rationalize who produces how much I think the. Us has been a free market. When George W Bush was President? We were producing just over five million barrels of oil a day. And we're currently producing over twelve so we have more than double the production of oil in the United States. Thanks to the what we call the shale revolution and when you're sitting in Saudi Arabia or sitting in Russia and you're used to be the world leader in the production of oil and you're used to be able to set global pricing for oil based upon. How much you produced or how much you didn't produce. And now you've lost the position to the United States which is a free market. You're not to happy about that. Saudi Arabia is not a free market. Russia's not a free market these are state owned state run companies and. They're running the interest of the government. And what the government wants to provide or not to its people. They're not running the in in order to satisfy shareholders and so it's not really a publicly listed or well it should take the back. Saudi Aramco's now publicly listed impart. Yeah nine ninety nine percents still owned by the Kenyan Saudi Arabia so even even in their perspectives. They said that one of the risks is is we might not act in the best interest of shareholders. We're going to act in the best interest of the kingdom as you'd expect to rip so then why a lot of people outside of Saudi Arabia never invested Saudi Aramco and probably won't for a very long time to come right but think that the reaction of Saudi Arabia and Russia going back to your March seven OPEC plus failure to agree an OPEC plus for your listeners. As the OPEC countries plus friends of those countries like Russia They're Palea to agree was really based in my mind and you might say. I'm being conspiratorial here but I think that we love that on the show. We're all about conspiracy theories in and using data to come up with the truth so but I I wasn't born yesterday and I wasn't born in a cabbage patch and NBA Bahama bin Salman Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Unpredictable BIC TATER with absolute authority and absolute disconnect from any normal values. That normal people might have because he's lived the princely life is a life never educated never studied never worked outside of Saudi Arabia. He's all about Saudi Arabia. And all about perpetuating the kingdom because that's his monarchy to inherit from his father As an absolute dictator visits Moscow. He visits with Putin they know each other in the same way. Nbs VISITS WITH TRUMP. A president trump. And so he's a world leader and he sees the US overtaking what had always been the lynch pin of Saudi Arabia's wealth in the world and that is oil production. And here's Putin. Who's another dictator? Neither of these two are accountable to the people of their country. They run the show and their accountability is to themselves and what they want to do. And when you're dictator you don't have to listen to anybody. You're a legend in your own mind. And so from my point of view this was a collusion. Between Mohammed bin Salman and Vladimir Putin seeing the demand destruction that it would would occur her. Why should they agree to cut oil production? When by maintaining or in the case of Saudi Arabia increasing production they could crush crush the financial strain of the American industry leadership of the by the companies in the US and caused the US to collapse production so instead of Russia and Saudi Arabia. Taking the bite on lower production of crude oil. Let's in force the US to do it. Based upon their inability to fund more drilling or more exploration and eventually they will shrink from twelve to eleven to ten to nine eight. Put them back in their place where they came from and then we meaning. Nbs Baltimore Putin. Now we'll cut back. We'll cut back when the Americans are hurting badly and then what will happen to the oil price. Guess what it goes up again. It goes up because of the collusion to overproduce at a time of demand destruction which is frankly some would argue an active war it might be economic war but others might say no this is. This is war. Because of the deleterious effect on the United States of America and our national security we are more secure nation. The more oil we produce for ourselves for sure and that's been the case of the last twenty years for all practical purposes. George Bush saw the need for more production. The industry saw the need for more production in the US. That's how the shale technology developed the whole idea behind shale is tapa resource. It's there but it's not been economically produced yet so the new technology of drought fracturing and horizontal drilling came along and we more than doubled the oil production and the nation is more secure as a consequence is not dependent on imports as much as we used to be. And so so the whole effect here. Is that dictatorial? Collusion along with demand. Destruction as led to an untenable situation. And I'm happy to say. The president trump intervened yesterday On the second of April I. I hope that he continues to hold. These people beat to the fire. And what does that mean? Well if I were in the president trump's shoes I would say very clearly to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. You know you live in a dangerous neighborhood. The risk to Your Kingdom is mitigated by the presence of the United States military in your backyard. Your own defense capability is enhanced by the sale of American arms at American training to your military guess what Mr Mohammed bin Salman You keep up this destruction of the domestic. Us oil and gas industry. And I'll make sure that you are on your own for your own protection in that nasty neighborhood in which you live because the US military is not there to prop you up so that you can do damage to the US oil and gas industry. So cut it out or I will cut something else out that you and your kingdom like very much and I'd like to see how your brothers treat you when the military protection to keep you safe suddenly unavailable to you. You'd think you'll remain crowned prince for very long. I doubt it. It's so do you think that that that at the end of the day that the conversation that trump had yesterday with NBS assuming it happened has he gone. Has He gone that far? Because I think what you're saying I don't if it's not a conspiracy theory because clearly that's where we are and I think there's some nuance around how he got there. And who maybe some of the drivers have been certainly historically and going into twenty twenty. I was in oil bowl and the primary reason was because Saudi Arabia has a fifty three year reserve life index and by any measure. If you're an Exxon or shell you would have a seventeen year. Reserve Life Index which means you're producing thirty million barrels a day and so they've always had the ability to to to change their production but they've generally supported higher prices and then Russia you know according to what my sources would say inside that room at OPEC basically went in and said this is in response to the Rose neft sanctions that the US levied because it trading with Venezuela and our action towards the Nord pipeline so sorta Russia punishing the US. Who then Saudi was punishing Russia and no doubt knew it would take it down. What I find ironic is they were only talking about a million and a half barrel cut at the time and as you said the demand destruction people talking right now with nobody driving. It's as much as twenty million. If not thirty million barrels a day instantaneous demand which meant that the cut that they avoided doing was nowhere near the magnitude that would be required today. I'm curious what your take is on what could happen now. In terms of gee you think that people will actively cut be shut in because there isn't storage. How long does that take to play out? And is trump gonNA take very large role? That's like okay. Russia we're GONNA take our sanctions off you for Rose Nafta and for the Nord pipeline carry on Saudi. We're GONNA leave our military but were cutting. You're cutting your cutting. We're going to balance and we're going to visit this later. What do you think's going to end up happening in the next week or two in the next week or two I think will see the beginnings of production declines this week. For example there have been dozens and dozens of the fracturing crews sat idle. So I I just read this morning. You know somewhere around several dozen crews that have all the trucks and all the rig work that helps people frank wells. They've stopped working I think last week. Some forty drilling rigs stopped operating. I think we'll see next week. Probably another forty or fifty stopped this week. So there's going to be a decline but here's something that many people don't know you can't just turn off an oil well like a light switch. It doesn't happen that way. It can't because what you'll do is you'll end up perhaps destroying the ability of that well to come back up when you want to resume production so shutting down an oil well takes a lot of technology and a lot of easing off before you actually stop the flow. The and you want to engineer at properly. So that when you want re- renew the flow you can. And so there's a lot of calculation that has to take place and you eat it back and before you actually shut it in and and so it takes time to decrease production in order to do it the right way. And the quickest way to see production stopped. Rowing IS TO STOP DRILLING. And so that's the first step that will happen right now before we continue to condemn Muhammad Bin Salman and bought a mere Putin even further. Let's make an observation about one giant weakness of the US the mastic oil and gas industry and that is with the production increases that have occurred. Many many companies have borrowed way too much money to maintain drilling operations without the capital strength to really sustain it and too many lenders have loaned money to undercapitalized companies for the purpose of growing production anticipating as you said earlier the bullish nature of oil rather than the bearish nature of oil on the basis that the global economy the US economy were doing rate. And there's a link one link between global GNP growth or National GNB growth and the availability of more energy. It goes it's a one to one ratio. That's pretty good. And and so you need more oil more natural gas for a growing economy that the basis on which all that loaned money Went TO DRILLERS. There've been too many drillers operating and negative cashflow territory for too long so there is a need In my opinion the free marketer. There's a need for a period of rationalization of the US Industry. When people think about oil they think about Exxon or Shell or Chevron or BP or you know the big guys well the big guys are about five or six companies the little guys the independent drillers for example. The Independent producers was about six thousand companies. Now they might be two pickup trucks and four men and a dog and they're a small company but but they're still producing oil drilling and and so they are generally the undercapitalized group that borrow money to keep drilling. I think there needs to be a period of rationalization that's already begun with the whiting announcement for example of companies. That really haven't been run well enough or profitably stay in business and I think they will have to either go into bankruptcy or be bought out. There's also a lot of private equity money that came in to the oil and gas industry with the oil shale revolution where they expected to come in make an investment and then flip it out at a high price and say sell the company that they invested in well because of the valuation of companies in this industry. They're not able to flip it probably worth less. Now than when they bought in and so they would have lost money and private equity. People don't like to lose money. There are the real pirates of of every industry and and they WANNA make money to make more money and so so as you think about as we come out of this. Do you have a speculation on what happens to private equity. I mean obviously they. They had come in for a turn and flip model and now. We're in a drill. Your returns model looked like a lot of them are going to escape with whatever they can get and it may just be the salvage value of the equipment. The company owns or whatever they can sell their licenses for to another company and just cut their losses and go because they're not in this environment with the ability of what what's happened to revolutionized the oil industry over the last fifteen years is technology and and many if you talked to the CEO of Shell CEO. That's on mobile APP or talk to me up tell you that. The success of the industry is directly related to technology and the technology innovation. That has taken place is incredible to think. We're a moment that you can be in ten thousand feet of Ocean Water and you can actually identify a reservoir twenty five thousand feet below the surface of the year. Let's thirty five thousand feet from your work team on top of the ocean and you can produce oil at the rate of maybe eighty ninety one hundred thousand barrels a day from that reservoir get that oil to the shore one hundred miles away and sell it for two dollars a gallon. Unbelievable it is. It is truly incredible. Seventy allergy delivers that kind of valuable product with all that energy content to enable us to do what we do whether it's natural gas or whether it's oil the live the quality of life that we need is just phenomenal and so the technology has delivered. And it's going to continue to deliver because it only gets better and so what they're they're I think there will be a global rationalization of because there's a lot of oil all over the world we've part of technology development has been new exploration techniques. Where you can find more oil than you ever knew existed and then to access shale formations whether it's US Canada Argentina. You name it Middle East all of this technology producing more oil and and see. Here's here's what many people don't know for all the oil we have produced and consumed over the last one hundred fifty years. We've only actually produced about a third of the available oil for many reservoir. Because that's all we can get at given the incline of pressure in the era to move the oil molecules off the rocks on which they sit be able to pump out of the ground. Now we're also improving the technology on the efficiency with which we produce oil so you can actually go back into these old reservoirs with new technology again. Another thirty percent of what? They're and that's commercially viable. And so we have all these old reservoirs plus new reservoirs and at the same time with this could be a whole nother conversation. The energy system of Earth is transitioning in the twenty first century away from fossil fuel. And that's a whole nother discussion because the oil companies know that sort of the natural gas couples. They understand that the environmental impact of burning fossil fuels natural gas and oil and coal for that matter. Throw that in the in the in the wheel barrel It's all got to change because the co two and other emissions from the burning of these fossil fuels is overwhelming the balance of the Earth's environment to be able to handle it and so we've got to address that over time and at a big part of the classes that I teach her about how that transition moves forward. It's not that we're going to end oil or end natural gas in ten years. Like some of the you know. What is it the green new deal advocates promote can't be done world would collapse because nearly eighty percent of the energy we use today comes from Basel Energy and it just an ninety. Six percent of our mobility energy comes from fossil energy. You just can't collapse it in ten years and it's unrealistic. Say The people that we can and if you're responsible life and so what do you tell? What do you tell your students? I mean as as your Advising them on their careers. Presumably these are younger. People are Masters people who are early in their career. That you're teaching. Is that a fair fair judgement. What do you tell them about? What do you tell them about? You know I don't Wanna I wanna tie cronies but clearly. This is a black swan risk. That people who two years ago were planning on their graduation this May and the economy looked a certain way. And now it's totally different. And you talk about the fossil fuels that are used the fact that the fossil fuel demand oil demand is down twenty percent. And there's basically no commercial activity going on and the world has come to a complete stop. Sorta of shows you. How impactful oil is to the world? I'm curious what you advise your students. Tell your students how they should think about their career or their their mobility in in industry or how they how they deal with circumstance like the corona virus impact to their life and their business. What what do you? What do you teach your students on this well to a twenty year? Old Twenty two year old getting ready to graduate. This is a calamity and the job market is going be pretty thin for most people And they may need to go do something when they graduate that. They didn't anticipate they were going to do If they WANNA be gainfully employed so maybe they'll go to work for Amazon or kroger or you know companies that are feeding people right now because we all have to eat and because all the restaurants are closed. The demand for groceries has gone up by an order of magnitude. Unlike it ever has been not just the hoarding but people aren't going to restaurants anymore rain cooking for themselves and so yes to a twenty two year old twenty four year old. This isn't calamity to somebody like myself. Who's been around seven-plus decades this will in hindsight be a blip in another wise period of prosperity and that prosperity will come from the resumption of energy demand growth nine energy demand collapse but we have to get past the virus because the viruses causes desk and we will get a vaccine. We will cure people who are ill of not everybody's going to die but it just it feels bad in the moment because we're sick of it and we're we're seeing incredible numbers of deaths particularly among people with secondary issues in their physique because they can't continue to breathe and a ventilating machine is not. GonNa cure people whose underlying condition weakens their ability to respond to the disease the infection and so the the number of deaths will increase and people. You know dull shelter where they're being asked to shelter. They expose themselves to the risk of catching just by breathing. Somebody else's acceleration when they're in line at the grocery store even six feet away and be problematic so so I think this may be an overstatement to call it. A blip because we'll never forget this period in so devastating to everybody about everything stictly those who lost a loved one because of it but the resumption of energy growth will kerr whether it's v-shape or u shaped or bathtub shaped who knows but it will recur because people like the quality of life that comes from energy now what I tell my students about the great energy transition that's going to occur is going to take decades. It's not going to be overnight. It's not a ten year phenomenon. Because we have an investment in the existing sources of energy to move to different sources of energy and different levels of efficiency and building the infrastructure required to shift the energy from one source to another. We'll take the next forty to fifty seventy years. It'll be the whole century in which this transition plays out so for somebody at twenty two years old getting into the oil and gas industry. They can have a wonderful career for the next thirty forty years in. Because we're GONNA be using oil and gas for the next thirty forty years. We may use less. We may do more electrification. We will do more electrification of the Fleet. But even if every car owned by people and then his personal transportation vehicles if every one of them was electrified. That's only a loss of twenty percent of the oil that we use because we have airplanes. We have ships. We have freight heavy freight that we don't have electric trucks ready to replace all that freight movement and and when we do get electric trucks. They're going to be mainly local not over the road because of battery strength is not there to you know travel from California to the east coast with vegetables and fruit so take. What is the three day trip with? They could to a nine day. Trip in. The produce won't survive so the continued any diesel engines for long haul over the road and then there's a whole use of oil and natural gas for chemical products. The fertilizers we use or may primarily from ammonia which is made from natural gas and so There's GonNa be a huge demand for continued use of fossil fuels while we sort out. How much nuclear much wind and solar a much. Hydropower we use. We don't use very much. Hydropower Wind or solar today and nuclear shrinking. Because we're we're not managing the future of nuclear very well and nuclear the plainest energy. We can produce the most powerful source of energy that we can find on earth but because we don't know what to do with radioactive wastes. It's a serious problem for us. So do you do worry I mean I so I I'm glad to have an optimist On the show because to be honest I've been I've been pretty pessimistic. Really since March seven for two reasons number one as you've pointed out in his most of the world knows we are the marginal barrel and there is a lot of oil and a lot of oil that could be produced at lower costs than we have so like hearing your optimism. Do you think about the financial ramifications of the fact that we've injected. Now I think six trillion if you include the balance sheet the four trillion balance sheet and the two trillion stimulus package plus. We probably need more. Plus we've had ten million people Have go for first. Time Claims Toronto Employment Plus forty percent of Americans don't have four hundred dollars an emergency situation without selling something and that's a hundred and thirty million people do worry that as this drags on twelve eighteen months away from a vaccine that if we don't restart life in an embrace the fact that people will die but life has to continue that that we go into a period like the Great Depression where there's really no way out of it and honestly the only way out of the Great Depression was World War. Two and the manufacturing came along with that. How do you think about that in context of all the historical booms and bus? You've seen over your career. Well I don't have the idea of depression in my foresight. I have recession. Yes but long-term depression no and the reason is a were resilient as people we adapt we flex We're surrounded by most of us by family members who can help us get through the toughest times number two. We live in a democracy where we choose our government and so the government knows that at one of the reasons we got the two point two trillion package rather quickly through congress. Was everybody's up for reelection in November. Right that is a fact and everybody says we gotta do it. We gotta do because the elections coming around. This is an and we have a president who's always been pragmatic and flexible his career. Not just because he's president that he's pragmatic he's always been pragmatic. People may not like his pragmatism or his behaviors associated with his pragmatism. But he'll do what it takes. He said the other day. I'll do whatever it takes. He'd also liked to get reelected and so and and the and the Democrats would like to make sure he doesn't so there's going to be a lot of promises out there and I think the two trillion two point two trillion is a lot of money. But let's remember. This is a twenty trillion dollar economy the US every year twenty trillion dollar GDP in the US. That's a big deal. So that's ten percent of the GDP of a year now. Yes it's all borrowed money and some point we'll have to pay it back But over a period of time if we do hundred year bonds which is what the Treasury Department is looking into There's a lot of things we can do in a rich country. We have more options. What I feel for. I mean my heart breaking over countries like India Pakistan many other countries with large populations of real people just like us. Who Don't have anywhere near the optionality. We have anywhere near the infrastructure to keep us hall. I mean think about six hundred dollars supplement to unemployment per week. That's one two trillion dollar package. That's a truly humanitarian gesture. On the part of our elected officials And and while temporarily and and it will sunset it will certainly help a lot of people as we go through whatever we go through. But but I have to say with respect to the virus itself I think that the current early April reality is very bad. Very tough And I think what we're seeing in places like China Italy Spain Everybody's GONNA learn the hard way. We're learning the hard way and I think the isolation of the shelter in place the physical distancing that we're doing bay may last for quite a while but we'll all be healthier because of it while it is certainly going to be very interesting twenty twenty. I think a lot of people a lot of people expected the you know the economy go a certain way in for opportunities to happen and then this is a perfect example of a pivot and shift last question for you. What do you think if you were to give yourself a piece of advice? The younger younger you and you went back twenty years knowing what you know now and knowing what you've seen knowing what you've learned what piece of advice would you give yourself that that you think would really resonate and help guide the Middle and later party your career or earlier part of your care. I think I've had good advice from my elders. As I became an elder over many decades and one thing I say to my students you can never stop learning. Never stopped growing never stopped reading learning growing reading. There's no end to what the brain can consume in terms of ideas. Options information. Integration. As you get older you get the integrate you get to synthesize much of what you know when you're young and you're running through through your early years. You don't necessarily take time to think which means you're not synthesizing everything you know not integrating variables from this reality to that reality and making sense of it as you age. You do that in a better way. Actually may start to acquire wisdom in your fifties or sixties or certainly. By your seventy or you know. You're you're really missing the boat at some point that it's why we respect our elders. Because they tend to know a lot of things and so knowing more things is to be the journey lifetime and the opportunity to know and to do and to do with what you know. It only gets better with age and my talking yesterday. About how old are you and I said years old as you think you are. You don't count the years. I haven't celebrated a birthday and fifty years and so it's I feel man a man after my own heart of that so I'm as young as I wanNA think. Yeah and as long as my brain is functioning. I'll stay that way. And so my advice to everyone at any age never stop learning. Never stopped growing man. Who would have thought that when when when I was in my forties and somebody put a computer at my desk? I said what is this. I had no idea. It just showed up on my desk one day and at and they put a keyboard in front of me and I was really. It was familiar with a keyboard because when I was in high school I worked in the library. Learn how to type. That was the typewriter. No so I've been in finger typer my whole life my whole life so but it took me a couple of years to really build up courage to see. What can I do with this computer? Right here. I am in my seventies and I'm teaching fifty students with an online zoom program that I initiated my goodness a long way. I mean that's actually. I'm Kinda hopeful I. I hope my parents are listening to this. One because you too can learn how initiate zoom call. I'm excited about that but well John. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective and insights from your multi decade seven decades on earth than and many many years in the energy industry. I think that that it's a really balanced perspective on optimism and a view towards a brighter future As always you can follow us on the web at. Www dot today dot com. You can listen to our podcast. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast until the next time. I always say be safe. Be Good and have a great day. Bye Thank you David by.

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Morning Joe 4/1/19

MSNBC Morning Joe

47:28 min | 2 years ago

Morning Joe 4/1/19

"Nobody knows what you have these guys. Maybe it's not worth ten billion. I think he's only worse. Seven. Mm actually worth more than ten. They're under audit. They have been for a long time. They're extremely complex people wouldn't understand him. I went to an Ivy league college. I was nice student. I did very well. I'm a very intelligent person copies of letters. I wrote at Mr. Trump's direction that threatened his high school colleges, and the college board not to release his grades or scores. There's no collusion with Russia. It was no obstruction. And none whatsoever. And it was in complete and total exoneration also add this tweet what he said is. So maybe we should just take our victory lap and say, no we've got a country to run as he's talking about. Not actually releasing the full report. So has noted on Twitter. He's a billionaire, but you can't see his taxes. He's a genius, but you'll never see his grades. And he's exonerated except his not because that's the one thing. The report we do know says good morning and welcome to morning, Joe. It's Monday, April first with this. We have White House reporter for the Associated Press. Jonathan Lemere professor at Princeton University at equa- junior. National security expert columnist at USA today and author of the book the death of expertise Tom Nichols. Former chief of staff at the department of defense now an NBC news national security analyst, Jeremy bash and former chief of staff to the triple C and a former director of strategic communications for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign Adrian Elrod. She's also an MSNBC contributor. Good to have you all on board this morning, Joe. It continues. His his branding exercise. I'm exonerated. I'm branding. It. Will it ends up? And we're going to be showing polls that actually getting somebody who will act like ROY combs as your attorney general doesn't really work. He like twenty only twenty nine percent of Americans believe he's been exonerated. I'm not mistaken. And maybe I am I think that number's actually gone down since the mullahs report it still it means that even some of his most hard core supporters. And I mean that really do follow him in this world of of a personality cult don't even believe him. But isn't that crazy? You are. Exactly, right. It's he's a billionaire. What he claims, I don't even if the guy's millionaire to be honest with you with all the debt that he's knows daddy gave him a couple of hundred million to get started. But he may not even be a millionaire. We can't see his tax return. So it's prob. What the case is. And then of course, I'm the smartest guy. I. I. You ever met anybody? That's actually intelligent that goes around telling you, they're intelligent 'cause I haven't a lot of stupid people that tried to convince me they're intelligent by telling me, how smart they are. But it's usually just the opposite. But we can't see transcripts the same thing. He attacks Barack Obama far he's guilty for and sends out threatening letters because just wasn't a good student and everybody knows he wasn't a good student. And now, of course, he's claiming he's. He's on A-Rated when we all know, he's not it's it is remarkable that he always tries to change the subject to before the election. He tried to change it to caravans. He tried to make up stories about disease ridden foreigners coming to our lands. Having this intrudes to the border. It didn't work. That's what I keep telling. People republicans. It doesn't work you try this. You went along with the lies, and you had the worst loss in the history of the United States Republic, your midterm laws. You lost my more votes than any party ever has. It's just keeps going on and on and some he's talking about he's going to close off the board. I said we don't care what you say Donald. Okay. We know it's all a scam and voters. No, it's all the scam. Again, I think most importantly, Mika. Only twenty nine percent of Americans believe that he's exonerated. He says he's not playing games is playing gang. Well, and the and the games don't work you lose. Oh, hey Republicans. Oh, he's such a smart. It's like I said last week everybody talks about such a juniors. And can we beat? Hey, guess what you lost you lost amid terms again broke all records for just getting your political heads knocked off your shoulders couldn't have gone worse for you. That's Donald Trump's Republican party. And now, it's happening. Again, you wanna try to stop us you want you want to try to stop us from seeing what's in the mullahs report. And Donald Trump thinks he can change the topic. Get James at topic Miki says he's not playing games he's playing games. But it's a game that he always loses. Well, alternately the page turns. But it's interesting because this branding ex. Size that he's been working on for years now no collusion now fully exonerated. It's not working multiple polls in the last week show that attorney general William bar summary of the special counsel report has failed to lift the so-called cloud over President Trump. The NBC news Wall Street Journal poll asked Americans their opinion based on what they know of the model report with just twenty nine percent saying it clears Trump and forty percent saying it does not with the rest on shore since we haven't seen it. Those numbers actually bear out to to commonsense. This as a Washington Post our school potty poll told respondents that the president and Muller had made different claims on exonerations. And as who do you believe more only thirty two percent said they believed Trump's claim of total exoneration while sixty one percent agreed with Muller's report of no exonerate. And again, Joe if you'll remember in attorney bar general bars letter, which I guess he says isn't into summary because it's too difficult to summarize four hundred pages of the sub. So in his letter, the one one of very few quotes, he uses from the mullahs report is that this is not an exoneration. So the president's trying to brand exactly against what this report is going to be saying that we do know we have to wait for the rest of the road. Nobody is saying it that you see this week. And it's unbelievable. He actually had his acting chief of staff going out going. Well, you know, it's not doesn't matter. Whether it was unethical him talking to the Russians as much as he did. We're we're not taught we're not talking about whether it's on ethical or not because he's basically, of course, it was on that. I want to hear that was on a neck. We don't care. Here's mc. What do you think about his larger point that the actions were unethical keep in mind that everything that Adam just talked about, and I know Adam I used to serve with him in congress everything that he just listed, right? There was available to Mr. Muller, in fact, probably in greater detail than Adam goes into right there, and that Mr. Muller found, no, collusion and know strike, not quite but what about the ethics or morality of those things. Again. The the issue here is not whether it's ethical saying here is that you're setting the bar on criminal charges or evidence of conspiracy. And I agree with what you're saying that there is none there, but he's talking about ethics and morality and you're saying that's not his job. Okay. Fair enough. But getting Adam Schiff for a second. What about the larger point about ethics morality? But I think I think the voters are going to decide about the ethics and morality that people vote for on either side. He's talking about chef. Yeah, he's talking about Adam Schiff, but Tom Nichols. Of course. Ethics immorality, obviously, stopped battering to this administration and to a lot of Republican voters along time ago, and here you have the White House. My gosh backed in the corner thinking that this molar report could be washed away with a letter from an attorney general who is acting actually more like ROY coun- doing what Donald Trump always wanted to turn general doing defending him. I said of the American people those numbers those numbers are a horn for Donald Trump. You want to explain why only twenty nine percent of Americans believe that the report exonerates him. Well, because the report says it doesn't exonerate him. But the. But the the scary thing buried in those numbers is. That when you start to matrix that against people that are going to vote for the president. What it really means is. Yes, we know. But no, we don't care. And I think that's been a consistent feature of this administration. That the president does something that is again Muller at least from what we know of the bar summary. This didn't clear a legal barrier to collusion or conspiracy. But but the contact with the Russians were wrong. I mean, people should have called the FBI. That's what you do wanna foreign power reaches out to you. And I think part of the problem is that we're having this discussion about the bar summary. But in the end, there's a lot of people in this country who just don't care, they then, you know, you could come out tomorrow and say, okay, he did it. He talked with Russians, but it wasn't a legal. I mean, just had the chief of staff saying, well, it wasn't illegal, but you know, ethics morality pysche posh. Those are questions we leave for somebody else. And I think that's really the dangerous. What's dangerous for our democracy is the degree to which people have just kind of settled into their tribal attachments. Mm said well, if the president did things that are wrong with the Russians even if that endangers national security, which I think it does we just don't care. He's our guy and we're going to stay on them. Yeah. And jumping on MIR you spent this weekend covering the president in Palm Beach and also watching our predictions cruelly take form the Red Sox demolished on the west coast. And we're now trailing the Baltimore Orioles. And we only have about a hundred and fifty eight more games to go behind the Baltimore Orioles. We'll get to that in a minute. But let's talk versa about the White House. The president has to be terribly frustrated that this letter comes out he thinks attorney general. Wordsmiths at just right? He was he was so thrilled yesterday last week that he sent out. I forget God bless tiny town or happy birthday America or whatever he said last weekend. And it's tweet when he woke up realizing what is it turning general was going to do for him a week later. He's back where he started. What's what's the White House reaction? And what should we expect the president to do next? Well, the White House telegraph what was going to happen even before bar summary came down that they believe that there wouldn't be something in there. No smoking gun, and they were gonna take this report or summary of the report take it as a victory lap and use it as a a weapon a political weapon to bludgeon their foes, and we saw that before went to Florida we were in Grand Rapids Thursday night, and the president opened up that rally with fifteen minutes screed about the report and claiming it was witch-hunt that he was he was came off as both vindictive and vindicated. That was what he was trying to sell and people around the Jonathan though, that's what they've been thinking for ratings you reported that even before before it came out you were spot on a head of the release of the report, but it's not working so far bumper show. It's not working twenty nine percent of Americans believe him the rest another. Thanks over sixty percent of the Washington Post poll. Don't believe him his his approval ratings actually went down three points in the NBC. News Wall Street Journal poll down three points in similar report came out. So what's the next move? That showed those numbers under show the risk of this strategy and their people around the president who have always been a little concerned about this idea thinking that the attacks on Muller on the report on linking Democrats to it would have a pretty short shelf-life, and may not be believed much beyond the Trump base and those numbers, obviously, it's it's still only a few days since the summary cannot, but those numbers sort of back that fear up. There's a limit to what they can do here. And the president is not the most trustworthy character. A lot of these things is credibility. A lot of issues has been shaky get beyond his base. It remains to be seen. Whether this is going to be an effective tactic to take this. And try to weaponize it going forward, and we also this is not going away from the headlines in anytime soon. I mean, the Democrats given a deadline to bar. I believe it's tomorrow to give out this the full report. That's not going to happen bar said that it'll be later this month, even then their questions as to what's to come out. We suspect a lot of it might be redacted for issues of sources, and means or grand jury testimony war perhaps. And this was the wrinkle debare put out in his letter on Friday, the idea that things wouldn't come out of potentially embarrassing to third party members to this. We're going at this investigation. I should say could that be done junior? Could that be Jared, Kushner, that's case Democrats aren't gonna take that lying down. Yeah. And it is it is fascinating. That again, they thought this was a big win for one week. We've heard how it's the end of journalism. It's end of the Democratic Party because because of a letter I mean, you actually have people that have been writing lectures on on in columns saying there was this Wall Street Journal editorial yesterday, I forget who the op Ed writer was that that said these are the less you can't jump to conclusions. They're all jumping to conclusions before we actually read the mullahs report it is very rigid. Let me bring you in here for some breaking news mayor Pete just reported seven million dollars raised seven million dollars raise. We've all been. I'm sure you've heard it will this make sent jitters quarter. We heard it everybody or they, you know, it's kind of like what people said about Barack Obama two thousand. Well, you know what? This is good for America. You'll never, but he's really cool is really cool. He's and that's what we've been hearing about mayor Pete. The guy Ray seven million dollars in the first quarter. He's lighting it on fire. Does this mean we need to start considering him a top tier candidate? You know, I think gel and he's pulling eleven percent in Iowa right now, depending on what Paul you lookout, which is significant leap from where he was earlier in the race when he got in. And look he's had these big moments. We talked about this last week on morning Joe where he had a really strong interview the you and make a gave a few weeks before his CNN townhall was affected. He's on fire. And I think one of the things that he really has going for him is because he's been considered to extent a tier two candidate. He you know, he doesn't have the pressure of being a front runner, but it looks like he's moving into potentially front runner satis. He somebody who connects with people, you know, he's he's a mayor of a medium sized town in the midwest, which has a lot going for him. And he's just been able to really effectively demonstrate wise in this race. What is candidacy is about? You know, we've got what about two and a half months until the first bait in the presidential primary, and I think you will be seeing a lot. More people who are really excited about Pete's candidacy. I'm you're also gonna see by the way more people releasing their first quarter numbers, of course, March thirty first was yesterday that was the deadline for the first quarter. I think you're also going to potentially see more people more candidates get into this race. Given the fact that a lot of people are waiting until this first key fundraising deadline to pass. So it's going to be an interesting few weeks ahead. Yeah. And so interesting because Joe with mayor Pete the sort of gut response to say, well, he's too young. 'cause you'd think he's like he's thirty. I think he's in his late thirties. Which is what I think everyone thinks Beto is. And actually, that's why Adrian's in Dallas this morning because she's covering announcement. But and you think he's too young. You think he's the mayor of south bend. I mean, that's nice. But that's not enough at this point. That's that's the first thought when you think of this candidate. Then he opens his mouth. And then he starts talking, and I have not seen him have a bump or a misstep on any answer. Let alone the fact that most people who listen to him are blown away listening. It's this is I think this is so great for American politics. It's that actually merit does count. It's not just PR machines whipping within people into frenzies. It's not just you know. You know, he's authentic and genuine, and that's punching through though, he's he's punching through and he's doing he's doing a great job. Let me ask you really quickly about the Joe Biden. Dust up this weekend. I mean, I I didn't hide my distaste for one article about Joe Biden that suggested that this man was a racist. Misogynist, a guy who has spent his entire adult life fighting for the things that the democratic party's been fighting for being democrat his entire life through the tragedy of losing his wife and losing a child losing his son. I mean and suddenly because he's not sufficiently progressive enough. An article is written suggesting that he's a misogynist and a racist. I mean, that's. In my opinion, as somebody that left a crazy party that looks like crazy elements of a crazy party. And I know there are the majority of good Democrats in America don't feel that way about Joe Biden. And again, let's let me say I've talked about Joe Biden's challenges as a candidate. And I don't think he's the lock that everybody thinks he is. I'm just saying how out -rageous when you're running against Donald Trump. Call a man who served for eight years as Barack Obama's vice president of racist. And I'm a Sajjan est in an article, it's it's beyond. It is just beyond. It is beyond Joe. And it's simply not true. Of course, as we all know. But you got to think about it this way Joe Biden served in office since he was twenty nine years old. He's run for president twice before. If you've runs this time again, this will be third time. But also his first time that he's ever run as a front runner going into the race. So we saw this with Hillary Clinton in two thousand fifteen before she decided to run the daggers are out. I think you're gonna keep hearing more people with their own viewpoints from both the left and the right who are who are trying to frame Joe Biden in a way. That's just simply not true. That thing that also has going for him just as mecum mentioned on mayor Pete is often Tissot people know, Joe Biden, they they love Joe Biden, but you are going to see different factions of the Democratic Party try to paint him as somebody that he's simply is not. So again, that's what's so interesting about his run this time. I'm should he decide to run is that he will be going into this race as a top tier candidate something. He's never experienced before. And I think you know, depending on how long he waits. I think we're going to keep seeing more articles written about him and more opposition research coming out to try to frame him is somebody that he simply is not potentially trying to keep him out of the race. Now, you weren't incredibly pleased with what you saw this weekend and the attacks of Joe Biden. Well, I think this is a very extensive and careful conversation that we need to have coming up with three hour show. We can have it here. We'll we'll play the comments that Lucic Laura's made to Casey hunt last night. Take a look at those. And listen, I don't is it an assault. What I'm not sure what she was describing. So we'll we'll listen and. Try and understand where this conversation goes from here. There's a lot of things I know about Joe Biden, I'm don't them for a long time. He is extremely affectionate. Extremely flirtatious in a completely safe way. I am sure that somebody can misconstrue something he's done. But as much as I can know what's in anyone's heart. I I don't think that there's a a bad intent on his part at all. And I read the account now. I was like, yeah, that's vitamin. But never thought for a second that he meant anything from it. Except to be to be nice to be kind. We end somebody's order. We've seen it on television. Again, the she's griping a lot we've had. So that clips of late night comics bed clips of him. He is he is always been very expressive. And he's always been very expressive IMP in public. And maybe maybe there's a conversation to be had about whether or not those expressions are okay today. But the latest thing that we saw on medium was an article by Stephanie quarter ash Carter swipe who's starting a new business. I ran into her an airport like nine months ago, and we were going on and on about this new business shoe starting because she was literally changing careers at a time in life that I'm writing about with my sister-in-law comeback careers. We actually put her in the book because of that conversation the airport, but she's written a piece now because she kept hearing from Oliver friends that they saw in the paper or they saw on TV. And she thought it was about a new business because she's a professional and she was excited attack against to talk about her new business, and here, it is all about a friendly exchange that she had with the friend Joe Biden on a very bad day when she fell down, and he put his hands on her shoulders, and the sort of holding her up, and I think gave her a kiss and thanked her for helping having her husband serve the country was on his swearing in. It was complete. Lately misunderstood. And she finally had to take to pen and paper saying this did not happen to me. This is not a metoo moment. This is not the Joe Biden that I know so we really going to do this and Democrats you have to ask yourself. What what exactly is the line? The me too line. You want to draw because you will live and die by that line. By the way. We it's an important line is very important. We saw last week somebody, right? Somebody writing the Atlantic about the mistake that was made regarding Al Franken that everybody jumped so quickly on L Franken. And now there are a lot of Democrats. This calm was talking about their look back going. Wait a second. How how low are we going to set that bore while we have the man that we have in the White House who brags about sexual assault, and we're eating our own wall. That guy is laughing at us. So it certainly really. We'll talk about this more. And we'll we'll listen to all sides. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the NBC daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented. Era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. Just so sudden and unaware and came from nowhere felt these hands on my shoulders, and I'm thinking, okay, that's odd in the vice president of the United States is touching me. But, you know, nothing I guess to add the ordinary, but then I felt him get closer. He leaned in in right behind me on my body, and he leans down, smells, my hair, and then plants this big long kiss on the top of my head. And it just happens. Suddenly, I really didn't even know how to respond in my brain. I just kept thinking the vice president United States smelling me, the vice president nited states is touching me. He's kissing me. And I just don't I just don't know what to do. And I kind of felt frozen. Do you think that the intentions of the vice president at the time I count for anything if he did not have malicious? Or ill considered intentions. That's essentially what he's saying. In his statement. Or do you think that doesn't matter that doesn't matter the the intention and and for the record? I don't believe that it was a bad intention. I I'm not in any way suggesting that I felt sexually assaulted or sexually harassed. I felt invaded. I felt that there was a violation of my personal space violated. Are we back that was Lucy Flora's? All right. Thanks for letting me know. So she felt violated is is the word. She uses that was Lucy Flora's the twenty fourteen democratic nominee for Lieutenant governor of Nevada detailing her allegation about Joe Biden's conduct. And describing what she says happened at a campaign event attended by Biden five years ago, the former vice president responded saying in part quote in my many years on the campaign trail and in public life. I have offered countless handshakes hugs expressions of affectionate support and comfort and not once never did. I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested, I did I will listen respectfully, but it was never mind tension. I may not recall these moments the same way, and I may be surprised at what I hear. But we have. Arrived at an important time. When women feel they can and should relate their experiences and men should pay attention. And I will we should mention NBC news has not independently verified the specific incident took place, but as reviewed correspondence provided by Flora's that appears to corroborate that she discussed the incident and that she alleges around the time she says it occurred. So, but here's the thing Eddie God. I'll take it to you. She felt violated. I thought Biden's. Statement was really important because as we descend upon this moment, metoo, whatever we're going to call it things are changing and the way women feel and certain interactions are now being expressed by women and men are having to edit change their approach, perhaps even change their entire behavior. Which is not about thing evolving as a society. But I guess what concerns me about this is the political nature of this announcement of this behavior. Of this violation. So to speak. What's your reaction to her story? So we have to take seriously any claim, I think about the invasion of showroom space. We saw example in the debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton when he hovered behind her and many people felt uncomfortable just by him being there. So I wanna to do a weird thing to do. But I want to take seriously the claim that she felt that her face space was invaded violations. Kind of strong. But I wanna take seriously that I also want to say this is that we're in a moment cultural shift, and the cultural shift means that the lines of blurry we haven't quite settled on things yet settled on matters yet. But what has happened is that as you save me could previous behavior can be thrown into a different light. And so I think what happens when Jim crow segregation collapses and people were raised under particular sets of conditions under particular ways in which they interacted with folk call people boy uncle aunt, suddenly those those. Ways of addressing are no longer acceptable and people who were raised in rear under one set of conditions now how have to figure out how to live under a different set of conditions. Right. So we're in this moment of a coach will shift that we need to understand that things are going to be blurry. We're gonna make mistakes. But it's a good thing that we're moving in a positive direction. And then the last point I would make is this. There's the opposition research. That's really, I think. Insidious in certain ways that we need to be mindful and critical of but I want to say this too. And I think there's some lazy thinking that happens in our society that relies on labels instead of us thinking in a nuanced way and complex way, it's just easier to call somewhat a racist. It's easier to call someone a misogynist disease easier to just simply drought, these labels, and that those labels do the thinking for us and part of what this transition requires me, at least, or my view is that we not fall into the trap of lazy thinking we have to be careful deliberate and nuance because a lot is at stake. Yeah. And it seems to me Adrian Elrod know, Joe Biden, I'm sure you've met him over the years. There's obviously a lot of different layers going on here. Number one. He's he was vice president for eight years. Most people just say, Yes, Mr President. Thank you, Mr Vice president, and he goes around the country and people are so excited to meet him. I am sure if someone came up to me and did that to me, I would say what are you doing? What's? Hey, how're you doing? And I would probably say they're kind of invading my space. But whatever great to see you and move on. He doesn't get that. Real time pushback. He has been known over the years to be very affectionate flirtatious, even in kind of a safe way. If I can say do you disagree now, I actually agree completely with you? And I think you know, you've done such a good job this morning of sort of striking that nuance there between what's appropriate and what's show. Biden. And just you know, what it's like to just really connect with people versus at just mentioned, you know, how to handle these relations where people feel like potentially their personal space was invaded. But here's the bottom line. Joe Biden, one of the things that we love so much about him those of us who know him those of us who are just have been so proud that he served eight years as vice president he has a very unique ability to connect with people. He's charismatic. He is impetus and that is a strength. And that's why I think the last few days since the story came out from Lucy flora as his team has done a very good job of playing up some of the former female aids who have worked for him over the years, reinforcing their view of him. Which is he is somebody's always empowered women who's always focused on making the women's voices who worked for him heard and empowering them isn't staff members. So they've done a very good job of playing that. But also, you know, again, we aren't. Cultural shift. So I think he's probably teams acknowledging that things are moving a little bit string it, and I'm sure junior was acknowledging it, but I'll tell you that. In many ways, and I want to bring Jerry Mmabatho into this. Because he knows Stephanie Carter very well. Who wrote the medium piece she's seeing across the world now in this picture of Joe, Biden, squeezing her shoulders, and she would like to make it very clear that was not a metoo moment at all. And she felt very strongly about that. Because she knows what happened in that moment. And this is how things can get blown out of control. But to Adrian's point about his charisma about his connection with people. You see Joe Biden in the lines during the swearing in on Capitol Hill flirting if I can use the words with the mothers often of congressmen and congresswomen who are being sworn in and kissing them. And hugging them, and there you go. I mean, and this is vintage Joe Biden, he loves that connection with people he loves to make people feel comfortable to to show, his warmth, his openness and. In the age of me to Jeremy that is being very misunderstood perhaps needs to change. I don't know. But when you listen to Stephanie Carter story, and you read her piece on medium. You can see how frustrating it is for some people who see Joe Biden is just a kind generous gentle, man. And there's no Stephanie Carter know that she's a professional brilliant accomplished touch wrong willed person. And I think if anyone we're going to call it inappropriate behavior, she would be prepared to do it. And basically what she writes about in. That piece is that on the day that her husband asked Carter was announced to be the next secretary of defense. She was making her way to the White House. It was kind of difficult day for her. She slipped on the ice in front of all of the the media and the cameras she wasn't feeling great. She was kind of staying there feeling a little wobbly next to her husband who is being nominated announced there at the White House. And Joe Biden did something that that she thought was lovely. He put on his shoulders. He said, you know, I've got your back, and I'm going to help you through this this event, and she preciado that she didn't feel in any way threatened, and yet her her image the photo of that is being used to Joe and your point is being misused by those who wanna tear Joe by now, I think it's really unfortunate. What's happening? We're defining down to defining it down. And I think if you watered down it's gonna ultimately be a meaningless moment. All right. Well, Jeremy stay with us because we're coming to you with with our next story, which while what a story it is. So obviously everybody that watches this show knows that the leader of Saudi Arabia murdered a Washington Post. Columnist chopped him up with a chainsaw had had that ordered killing buried him. And then the Washington Post did what newspapers do they actually reported on the story, and they aggressively reported on the story that that the Saudi Arabian crown prince actually didn't like what a Washington Post journalist was doing. So they killed him. Then they sort attacking Jeff Bezos, and Jeff Bezos is most personal details. Wind up in a National Enquirer story. He owns the wash bazo Soanes, the Washington Post, and we know who owns the National Enquirer, and so he has links with Saudi Arabia. So anyway, so investigations been done and the results pretty shocking. According this investigation. It seems that the Saudis actually had hacked into Jeff Bezos is phone because he is an enemy of the state of Saudi Arabia because he owns a newspaper. That's actually telling the truth about the murder of one of their own columnists. We're going to do that next. We're gonna get to Jeremy bash get his insights and insights of the panel. When morning Joe returns. I just Alex cut in my ear and corrected me. Mohammed bin Salman did. Not order the killing of Shoghi with a chainsaw Muhammed. Bin Salman, ordered the torture and the killing of okay Shoghi, the Washington Post columnist with a bone saw. So I apologize for getting that wrong. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia ordered the torture and the killing of the Washington Post columnist with a bone. So we're learning more this morning about wrong. The role of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and what it may have had in the hack and release a private and sexual text messages between Amazon CEO, Jeff Bezos and Lawrence Sanchez. Now. Stay with us. This is complicated. But actually all comes together, quite simply. Reporting has indicated that Sanchez pro-trump brother may have been responsible for handing over the private information to the National Enquirer and its parent company. Am I how ever in a lengthy article in the Daily Beast the man in charge of Basil's is investigation. Gavin to Becker reveals that his team has quote concluded with high confidence that the Saudi government had access to bazo his phone and gained private information. Adding that the kingdom's motive was to retaliate against the Washington Post which bays owns for. It's critical coverage of Jamal kashogi murder at the hands of Saudi agents to becquerels estates quoted is unclear if AM I was aware of how those compromising texts were originally obtained. He does not provide any hard evidence for his claims noting that the details results of. His investigation have been turned over to federal officials. Am I dismissed the claim saying in a statement to CNBC that Sanchez has brother was the single source for the National Enquirer story in February basis accused of trying to blackmail him with threats of publishing the private information and photos unless basis said the national enquirers reporting on him was not politically motivated. Everyone's messed with the brung man number one trying to blackmail, the richest men in the world turn out for a minute. Very well. And the story Jeremy appears to keep getting worse. Now, according to this investigation that looks like will govern the Beker said that they kept throwing Sanchez at him like some kind of Patsy and didn't want him to dig deeper. He has dug deeper and. According to his investigation the Saudis hacked into and gain to access to Jeff Bezos, personal information. If that is the case how damaging is that for the Saudi government and for the national inquirer in an I it's it's an astonishing allegation Joe. And remember on March eighteenth of this year, the Wall Street Journal reported that AM I David pecker approved at two hundred thousand dollar payment to Lawrence Sanchez's, brother. And of course, the prevailing theory of the cases that the pro-trump rather received a payoff from the National Enquirer he gained access to his sister's phone, and he provided that information to the National Enquirer. Now along comes Gavin to Becker who is a very well respected security professional. He is of course, paid by Jeff basis, but I think he has some some independence standing of his own. He's done an in-depth analysis, and he says forensic analysis of the phone that Jeff basis was using. He said he. Seen Saudi activity on the phone now, he doesn't exactly state that therefore the Saudis took information from Jeff those phone compromising information and gave it to AM. I in that led to the publication in January of the of the photographs or excuse me, the description of the photographs, but the implication Joe and make is surely that the Saudi government that something that would seem on its face to be wildly responsible potentially unlawful and and incredibly damaging to their own reputation. Once it would ultimately be revealed come Nichols. What is the impact? If in fact this investigation bears fruit, and it is proven that the Saudis intentionally tried to hack phase is phone. Well, there's two things going on one. Is we can't lose sight of the incredible fact that a tabloid that supports the president when after one of the president's enemies someone the president roundly attacks newspaper. He hates and tried. Essentially to. Destroy personally destroy the owner of a newspaper that the president hates. At a at a tabloid directed by an ally, the president now if you add into that they did this with the assistance of a foreign power that whose leader or or next leader is under international censure for a grisly murder and one of the few people who's backing him. And and won't join that chorus of center is that same president of the United States at that point the story becomes immense. Jeremy's pointing out the ramifications here in foreign policy first amendment press freedom in every direction, this becomes an explosive story, but with the proviso if that's true to have a regime that has been protected somewhat from criticism by the president working with the newspaper that supports the president to go after the newspaper that has been critical of the president, and who's journalist was murdered by the regime it really. You couldn't write if you wrote this up as a Robert Ludlum novel, or John the Carre novel, the publisher would send it back to you is simply to fantastic and two and Jonathan Amir you've followed the president through the Pam pan. You saw time and time again, the president's political opponents were smeared on the cover of the National Enquirer time and time again, whether it was been Carson, or whether it was Ted Cruz or whether when when the president was about to fire general flam, the National Enquirer earlier that week said that general Flynn was a Russian spy Donald Trump at outed him. And you knew that it was only matter of days before he got fired. Of course, we had our own story of where whiteout top aides. The White House were calling us begging us to apologize. Donald Trump saying if we would apologize Donald Trump he could pick up the phone call David backpacker and kill his story that said that I would go by cases of beer and sit and drink meek as. House all the time. I mean. Well, first of all, but anyway, but, but let's let's come part of this story. I just like saying that because I've never bought a beer my life. I make people like you buy beer for me, drink it in the car. But anyway, so tell nine county don't think beer, it's sort of the Jonathan I digress. A bit too much. But so I'm just trying to give them their next cover story. But but but Jonah that this has been the president's M O and Packers M O, find political and of Donald Trump and go after them using the National Enquirer, right? Whether or not they report on your drinking habits. We don't is unclear but we do know is that they were basically a wing of the campaign in twenty fifteen in two thousand sixteen the very least providing a lot of opposition research, some truce not time and time again, and you mentioned the names Ted Cruz most in particular being the political opponent of then candidate Trump who was smeared by the National Enquirer. It's also remember their role in the catching kill stories with Michael Cohen with Karen, McDougal, stormy Daniels. They were the forefront there too. And underscore Tom's really important point despite this murder this brutal murder of Jamal show which condemned globally. This administration has not backed off their ties to Riyadh whatsoever. We've seen secretary of state Pompeo meeting with the crown prince, Jared Kushner, of course, has always had a back channel relationship with the crown prince with NBS, there's hundreds of millions of dollars of arm sales being that has been the Goshi between Washington and Riyadh and Saudi Arabia is at the forefront of whatever the Trump administration's Middle East peace plan is going to look like so they have not what at all decided to distance themselves from Saudi Arabia, in fact, time and time again, including in interview questions that I've asked the President Trump has not wanted to back off his ties to king, salmon and the crown prints. All right. Bye bye week. So I have another correction to make guy correction per per blog now. Correct. I don't don't drink beer never bought here in my life. Up to one old fashioned. Maybe every other night not much on outgo hall. That's about it. And also last block I said that Muhammad bin Salman award, the brutal murder of a Washington Post columnist with a chainsaw actually was with a bone. So Jerry bash. Thank you very much being with us Adrian Elrod. Thank you as well. Hey morning. Joe family Willie Geist here. If you like the long deep dive conversations on morning Joe every day. I think you will love my Sunday sit down podcast every week anew. Extended unedited interview with another big star with names from Bill Murray. Jerry Seinfeld and Kevin hearts to China Garton. Claire Foy me lacunas? Mark wahlberg. Ryan Reynolds, Lenny Kravitz, and yes jaylo I could continue name dropping, but you get the idea. You can check out the free Sunday sit down podcast wherever you get yours.

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Conservatives worship Trump at CPAC

All In with Chris Hayes

44:27 min | 4 months ago

Conservatives worship Trump at CPAC

"Tonight on all in you know on january the sixth. I objected during the electoral college certification. Maybe you heard about it. Republicans celebrate insurrection as the rest of congress worked on an american rescue tonight. The big vote on the cove in relief bill and high. The minority party is undermining then the new york times reports a major break in the death of a capital police officer at the hands. The trump baugh plus what we learned from day one of those very trumpy cpac and the washington post david ignatius on what we're learning about the role the saudi crown prince in the murder. Jamal khashoggi all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. I'm chris as you know one year ago exactly a year ago. Our leadership was publicly. Denying the corona virus would even be a factor in our lives even though they knew at the time different on this very day last year ex president trump told us quote. You have fifteen people being fifteen cases and the fifteen within a couple of days is going to be down close zero. That's a pretty good job we've done here. We are tonight with the house. Just moments away from voting on an enormous relief package to help rescue this country from the economic ruin and devastation brought about by the negligence incompetence off that administration there nihilism their response to the pandemic trillion in one point nine trillion dollar america. Rescue plan act is the first signature piece of legislation of course the biden administration and the democratic majorities in congress. It contains fourteen hundred dollar checks for millions of americans in more for households. Have kids vaccination money to crush the virus. A boost to unemployment payments increase child tax credits. If it sounds like a good view that sounds like good stuff. You're not alone. It is wildly popular okay. Republican mayors support it and republican governors. Support it major. Ceo's supported labor unions supported activist. Group supported more than three quarters. Voters wanted including sixty percent of republicans. It is a huge step towards improving the lives of millions of americans and people know that there is however and you might have heard this one part of the package that looks like it will not make it through and it is also one of the most popular parts. That's a proposed federal minimum wage increase to fifteen dollars an hour. That's up from the seven thousand five. We have right now to be clear this also polls really well. A new reuters. Poll found some fifty nine percent of respondents said they supported the idea with thirty. Four percent opposing. It just doing the math there. That's plus twenty five. You get plus twenty five and a poll. You're doing pretty well. There's also a lot of economic literature supporting the idea that raising the minimum wage would be good for the economy net net. But it probably won't make it through the senate because as you may have seen or heard last night or today. The senate parliamentarian ruled that the minimum wage cannot be increased through the budget reconciliation process which is a sentence. You need a translator for it. Almost sounds like a parody of senate procedural ism. The senate parliamentarian She said that only some things can go through that process. They have to be germane to the budget. And the minimum. Wage does not qualify. It's not germane enough to the budget. Okay the biden administration has said they will respect the decision. Progressives a warning on the other hand biden to hold the line on the wage hike. Do what they can to get through but the broader issue here. Okay just to take a step back. The broader issues at over the last ten to twelve years particularly under mitch mcconnell stewardship particularly during the obama years. The senate stopped being a body of majority rule and started being a body in which sixty votes assumed majority is necessary for basically everything and this has transformed the senate by introducing another veto chokepoint point into american politics at already has a ton of them and it has threatened in a dire way. The functionality of congress democratic senators get this represent about one hundred eighty three point. Seven million people republican senators represent one hundred and forty four million so nearly forty million more people. Despite the senate being fifty fifty evenly split senate republicans have not representative majority of americans since nineteen ninety-six that was the only two year period. When that happened in the last thirty years. There are all kinds of features of us constitution and current us institutions that empower minority rule that republicans exploit electoral college and it is brought us the prep precipice of a kind of democratic unraveling. Now so people are arguing. Kamala harris should use. Your power is president senate to overrule the parliamentarian. And that may or may not be the way to go. I'm not sure. Democrats have the votes the core thing here though lest we all get too wrapped up in senate procedures we need to restore majority rule and small d democracy to american institutions or we as a nation are in a lot of trouble democratic congressman cory. Bush missouri knows the challenges of working low wage. Jobs a single mother who raised two kids last night. She tweeted quote people. Don't care about keeping the filibuster. People don't care about listening to the parliamentarian people care about getting the relief they need do what it takes to raise the minimum wage to at least fifteen dollars and congresswoman bush of missouri joins me now congresswoman. I let me start. You're gonna have a vote tonight. I think it'll be your. It'll be your first vote on a major piece of legislation. there's been other legislation that equality act. This is the biggest thing that you will be voting on. How do you. How do you feel about that. How do you feel about where things stand. I'm ready to get it done. I mean we've been waiting and waiting. And i know you know all all of these things happen have to happen i tonight. We need to get this done. The american people sent us to congress with a clear. Mandate chris do the absolute most. We can to provide real relief everyday. People true kobe ninety relief means raising the minimum wage to at least fifteen dollars per hour no matter what. The senate parliamentarian says run us. Our money was saint louis in the country desires. Nothing less you you. You're someone. I think you would say you come from a different background. Folks are serving with and from a different place and have different life experiences. And you know. I just from your perspective as someone i think who is closer to being a low wage worker trying to make ends meet with kids that a lot of your colleagues. What would mean for the minimum wage to be raised for those kind of folks. It is the difference between receiving your paycheck after the end of the week or Or biweekly and having money to pay all the bills or most of the bills versus having money to pay one of the bills in deciding. How much food can i buy. Or do i buy grow. Do i buy a medication. Or can i buy you know how what kind of toilet paper the thing is that. Someone has asked one day. They said well. You know how much you know. What about buying like is that you know is here. There's this thing about buying milk. If the difference between somebody going. Where can i go get the two dollars and fifty cent milk from or what a full pantry go to get my basic my basic needs met and then what do i have to go other places to get like. This is a real thing it. What about shuttles. You know what. It's like to come home every day wondering age it will. Will there be a letter paste it to my door saying ten days paying. Today's or vacate will electricity. Beyond when i make it home. Will there be a note saying that my gas was turned off. You know if you haven't lived like that you know we're we're talking about fifteen dollars chris. We're not talking about making anybody rich. This is the difference between life and death of people people look. We're talking about communities that have lived under decades of disinvestment they don't care about senate parliament parliamentary procedures. And a filibuster. They care that they can feed their families. They care that the lights are on. There is that there is water. They care about those things and we owe that to the american people. You're in a state. Obviously your district is heavily democratic. But the state you're in missouri has trended quite conservative over the last few election cycles particularly the statewide level. It striking to me that in two thousand eighteen your state again. a state. That moving to the right voted by referendum to raise the minimum wage in missouri up above the federal. Not to fifteen dollars. But i think to twelve dollars in an incremental fashion. What does that say to you about the politics of this issue. Just broadly speaking is says that people know that they have needs and it doesn't matter if you have our d if you don't have any affiliation to politics at all people know that hunger is real the pain of hunger which which body feels like when it's hungry israel when you can't go to the store to the pharmacy and pick up your medications. We've asked to make that decision between paying rich in and getting your medications people know that. That's a real thing. If they understand that in also they understand that we should we it fifteen dollars where we really should be in so we have in missouri. We saying progressive issues pass in our state but not necessarily very many progressive politicians. So that's where we have to do the education but fifteen dollars. We gotta bring that home senator. Thune i i saw a number of republicans who republicans are i think the entire senate caucus opposed the minimum wage. I don't think it would get a single vote. Either in the in the house may be mistaken. Senator thune. Who's the minority whip. You know he was saying. I started working bussing tables at the star family restaurant for one. An hour slowly moved up to cook the big leagues for a kid like meat. Earn six dollars an hour. Businesses and small towns arrive on narrow margins mandated fifty dollar minimum wage. Historians have pointed out that six dollars. And thanks and seventy nine is like twenty three dollars today but it was interesting to me. He said kid. Because i think there is a conception people have a lot of republicans have have sort of fed into these. Are all teenagers making the minimum wage. What's your response to that. Not at all not at all. We're talking about adults. We're talking about middle age adults. We're talking about our elders guardless of the age. When i show up to work in a job paint me by buddy. Hey me a ways. That is decent. Because the work that i'm doing is decent if ounce stock in shales you want those shelves straight so you need to pay me away so make sure that i can home ahead head up high enough in happened on a ladder to be able to make sure that the products are are set up on the shelf right. If i'm cooking your food. Make sure that. I'm mentally okay. In physically okay with your because you want to eat that right you know so. It should matter the age of the person than what he said. It is unbelievable his words because the thing is if you know i'm work for five dollars and thirty five cents an hour. I remember getting tencent. Merit raises not raises ten stiff mayor rate. But you know what kept me in a position of poverty. It kept me hurry. Why do we want others to have to go through that. I don't i and the fact that. I don't make that money now. I don't want others to go through like what type of elected official says have it. You know you have to fix it yourself. No no no no take care of your people invest. what i'm doing. That's what a lewis deserves. That's what this this country others are congresswoman. Corey bush Who will be voting on this relief. Package the house version does have the minimum wage increase in it. We'll see how that ends up. Thank you so much for your time. I really really appreciate. Thanks for having me all right at cpac last year trump impersonator got kicked out running around with a woman thrown over shoulder and interrupting a mike pence speech. I don't know if you've seen this footage it turns out that was comedian. Sasha baron cohen who his new movie which subsequently came out so when i saw this image of a literal golden idol of donald trump being wheeled around my immediate thought was surely it had to be a bit. Surely this has to be sasha baron. Cohen back at cpac. Well we did some research and we will tell you the whole story next tonight. A breakthrough in the homicide investigation into the death of capital police officer. Brian sick nick. During the trump mob insurrection of the capital on january sixth near times reporting the fbi is said to have singled out potential assailant in sickness staff citing law enforcement officials times reports that investigators suspect his death was related to irritant like mace or bear spray that he had inhaled during the riot and that investigators have now pinpointed. A person seen on video all of the riott who attack several officers with brain including officer sick have not yet named the suspect. The news comes just days after the arrest of retired. Nypd officer named thomas webster with the fbi says was caught on police. Bodycam attacking the dc metro police officer with a flagpole during the insurrection on a bring and ryan riley the senior justice reporter at huffpost ryan. This is the new york times reporting the dust department. Not commenting on it. But it has been a strange source of mystery that you and i have talked about the total lack of information. About what exactly. The cause of officers sickness death was what what led up to it. It appears like maybe there's some breakthrough here it does. I mean these attacks on police officers have been really focused on a really resolved in a lot of cases so today huffpost broke a story where we identified. The person who we've seen actually tasers. Mike known who is with the metropolitan police department and he was wearing a red mega hat and we zeroed in on him and the amazing thing about is the fbi actually received a tip about this received multiple tips about this more than a month ago but had not actually followed up until we actually went through and contacted the bureau and only then did they follow up with a key witness in this case and this is someone who could have killed an officer. This was someone who this officer was abducted in the crowd he talked about you know how he cried out. He thought he was going to die. He thought you know that he was. He was thinking wasn't gonna see his daughters again. I mean this was an officer who could have been killed in that crowd and said that people were saying. Kill him with gun. There's evidence out there and has been public for more than a month that they identified this person who you know. Tasers him during this salt and he wasn't even on that list of people the fbi were sort of looking for and it wasn't until you know they got a little a little bit of a kick that they actually followed through with the witness. So i mean the scope of this is just overwhelming. i think. And that's the thing you sort of have to you now. I know i remember when officer phenomenon we. I saw that that video. That might be sick neck right. But what we later learned. Is that a bunch of police officers. Were assaulted in a whole variety of ways with a whole variety of implements and tracking. Who did what is has been a real process. I mean it's an astonishing amount of work. And i think that you know one thing that you know. I have to remember even after a decade now covering the bureau is that the fbi has this reputation as the sort of extraordinary crimefighting bureau and it is a really high tech bureau but they are still. It's still made human beings and it's still this mass bureaucracy and you search of must be working on something behind the scenes but this is just such an astonishingly large investigation with you know i mean thousands of pieces of millions of pieces of evidence to write in you know hundreds of suspects in hundreds of thousands of kids and it's just organizing that in some fashion that is just this overwhelming task. I think for the bureau and you know it's not one that necessarily a bureaucratic institution is equipped to sort of organize very easy. This isn't something that they're sort of set up to bill. We're gonna see a will be following these developments very close up to three hundred arrests have not mistaken riley. Who's been one of the best reporters on this beat. Thank you very much. And as investigators continue to arrest and charge the january six riders. The big lie. That prompted the attempted insurrection was being celebrated at the annual gathering of conservatives known as cpac this image capture captures the unofficial theme this year the idolatry of the twice impeach for president. The man who the mob attacked the capital four. Who's going to give his first post presidential speech at cpac this weekend to be clear. That is actually real. It is not stunt for the next borat movie just pure irony free trump idolatry. Your orlando sentinel spoke to the artists behind the statue. Who said he tried donating trump's residents and mar-a-lago on the former president's birthdays but was stopped by secret service. That makes some sense. He said he hoped it ends up in trump's presidential library someday it's a piece of americana he said it certainly is. It's going to go down in history now. Moving conservative and these days is really indistinguishable from that statute from the worship of trump. There's a reason people been comparing the statute to the biblical golden calf worshiping trump. also of course means pushing the big lie about the election chair of the group that organizes the conference match lap told the washington post that the idea that we're going to come up with some kind of conservative platform at cpac. It rings a little hollow schlab adding right now. Half the country feels cheated by the media coverage elections. We're going to go back and cover the facts that most people in the media cancelled lots going on there. What he's saying is the whole point of conferences. Years to try to basically keep trying to con america into believing trump won. The election was stolen and that played in the room. just listen to the crowd's reaction with senator. Josh hawley. Brought up his efforts. To overturn the will of the american people on january the sixth i objected during the electoral college certification. Maybe heard about it speaker. Even went so far as suggest. The insurrection itself was not a dark day in american history. But a grand celebration of unity. Joe biden wants unity. There was unity there on that day. Because america's sick and tired of being pushed down cpac nelson fringe gathering. This is where the republican party is. In addition to holly to these speakers include don jr. tom cotton marsh platform than other prominent. Republicans including ted cruz made a joke about going to cancun while his state suffered and called mask rules dumb and mocked congresswoman alexandria. Ocasio cortez for fearing for her life. During the violent insurrection. We stand together and defend liberty. Defend the constitution. Defend the bill of rights of every american in the mortal words of william wallace. Bob lee official theme of cpac was the worship. Donald trump the official theme of the event is america uncanceled which was undermined before it even began when cpac cancelled a speaker for antisemitic and other comments. They many the speaker seem to want to cancel congresswoman liz. Cheney voting to impeach trump junior who tried and failed to get a laugh by dubbing the conference. Tepeyac trump back. I guess also workshop. Too tight. Five attack jane speaking of bombing the middle east. Have you seen loose. Cheney's poll numbers. No seriously liz. Cheney and her politics are only slightly less popular than her father is at a quail hunt. Just a drop dead hilarious stuff. Olena plot is covering cpac national political reporter of the new york times and she joins me now. Elaine i thought the match slap quote was so you know honest transparent. This is not about policy. It's not about like some conservative ideology. It's like we want to relitigate our grievances. Has that been your experience on the ground there. It has chris and what's interesting is it's not even about necessarily in opposition to the current administration or democratic policies at the moment Congress is of course debating a massive stimulus package right now. It was not mentioned at one point in the events today. I was the hair beginning at seven. Am nobody mentioned at all. And everything i would say was largely rooted in hoping to relitigate the presidential election. But even that. I think as i stayed as sort of charitable because i think the idea that the election was quote unquote rigged as one of the speakers. Put it today has just become canon with the republican party space. Yeah it's so fast. I wanna just hone in on this. I mean did it right now. There are members of congress. I talked to corey booker. Who's in washington. Dc they're going to vote on this package in the house. There's a bunch of republican house members who were in cpac who signed their proxy voting forms. So they can proxy vote saying that they can't be in washington because of the public health emergency of their down in a convention center in orlando and no one's talking about this single biggest policy issue on the table in america right now. Yeah i mean the extent to which the pandemic were the coronavirus was mentioned at all. It was usually framed as a way of making fun of Pandemic related restrictions. So ted cruz on made fun of the idea of wearing masks and restaurants. He did that even after. I'm as i'm sure you saw and to cpac organizers had to suspend events for a bit to go on stage and remind people to wear their masks the higher regency which is the conference here in orlando does have rules. That masks to be worn at all times so it was interesting to see the organizers. Try to frame their plea. An appeal of sorts to private property rights and the rule of law Trying to couch it in whatever rhetoric thought might actually do some good that ultimately they were met with tons of boos jeers people yelling freedom and so it was a bit for not. I think we have that. I think we actually have the clip of that moment. If i'm not mistaken. Let's just take elections. You described it please. Everyone when you're in the ballroom when you're seated you should still be wearing a mask so if everybody can go ahead work on that what i know i know it's it's not the most fun. Yeah that i feel bad for that young woman trying to get the crown to comply with that. I'm also struck. By as i was watching some speeches and some of the highlights the idea of america on cancelled as the theme. That show much of what they're railing about about things that aren't even political in a sense or have to do with it. They're mad. There's a disclaimer on the muppets. And that's a big thing to talk about. Or mr potato head or whatever cultural agreements but nothing. That like you could write. A bill to deal with is that that seems to me. The thrust of much of what the sort of grievance an anger throughout the first day to me. that's been such a huge being a team at the trump era on the right. Which is that they are at. It's very popular right now to assure the base that you will fight less clear however is what they want to fight. Four speakers has had many opinions on what they should be fighting against. But as you said it wasn't you know whatever amendment so in so recently put forth. I'm even the idea of opposing. Something like obamacare feels kind of quaint in this way and these were as you said large scale cultural grievances that animated president trump. And that i think cpac at least based on my reporting has only affirmed that this will continue to define the future of the party as you showed a clip donald trump donald trump junior tried to rebranded as t pack. It didn't quite land. But i can't report that there is still answered that reverence of donald trump here and ted cruz in a number of others speakers said quite clearly that donald trump is still the leader of the republican party. And because of that is sort of a political more gauzy control grievances steeped in things like racin identity are continuing going to continue to be the momentum behind the artie rather than anything Even slightly more granular rhonda scientists. I'll i'll just no it said right in his introductory remarks this morning that basically the threat from the left right now is to urgent to sitter conservatives to waste time with quote unquote academic discussions about policy that is striking. Elena plot a great great of download for us today. Thank you so much for for coming on the show. Chris coming up. The crown prince of saudi arabia approved the mesh mission that ended in the murder of washington. Post journalist. jamal khashoggi. Why are we just getting this. Newly released intelligence report today. And what is the biden administration going to do about david. Ignatius washington post is here. Talk about a half. I rise to speak on a topic. I've often spoken about on the floor. We've been at continuous war. Since september fourteen two thousand one when congress passed an authorization of military force to go after the perpetrators of the nine eleven attacks conflict has been going on so long that many are somewhat immune to it. I heard a high schooler recently. Say war is all i have ever known. It's the status quo. It's the background music to daily life. That was four years ago. Twenty seventeen here. We are in twenty twenty. One and very little has changed a background. Music is still playing coming on two decades now. Today tim kaine released new statement about the latest air. Strikes in syria undertaken by the new democratic president saying the american people deserve to hear the administration's rationale for these strikes and it's legal justification for acting without coming to congress demanding a full briefing. The pentagon says last night's bombing on the border with iraq targeted iranian-backed militants and that it was retaliation for a mid february rocket attack iraq which killed a us contractor and wounded in american servicemen in this modern era of the war on terror and even actually even before the war on terror started strikes in the middle east and central asia kind of bizarre ritual for incoming presidents usually within their first month again before nine eleven but twenty seven days into his presidency. George w bush launched an attack on iraqi radar sites just three days into his first term. President obama ordered a drone strike in pakistan. President trump was in office for all of nine days before he launched a special forces rating yemen. Now thirty seven days. Since his inauguration president biden washes. I break in the region. Here's the president said about it today. You can't get you can act with impunity. Be careful not wild-eyed or unreasonable okay. There's been a series of rocket attacks against american personnel in iraq. That that's something that really happened. There was a determination that they would escalate unless there was some kind of disturbance deterrence that was restored and so the government kit these facilities in the details of that one exchange. It doesn't seem crazy but that of course is the whole problem of the forever. War each individual action or reaction has some kind of plausible justification. But when you add them up in the aggregate you get a kind of collective madness which is us at war for twenty straight years conducting military activities in dozens of countries forever in perpetuity. Just coming into office and we're going strikes and bombs and squads. The only solution is to decisively break with the legacy as hard as bringing american troops home and stop bombing other countries beyond the situation with iran and syria. The trump ministration left president bryden with a lot of ugly things deal within the region particularly the trump embrace of a saudi regime that we now know for certain authorized. The murder of washington post columnist. A shocking report is next just over two years after the brutal murder of washington post columnist shimon shoji the us publicly blaming the crown prince of saudi arabia for his death and dismemberment Who had been critical. The regime in saudi arabia walked into the kingdom's consulate in istanbul. Turkey on october. Second two thousand eighteen. He was told to come to deal with some paperwork and he was never seen alive again. Turkish intelligence capture recording of killing shared with the us government and suspicion immediately fell in crown prince mohammed bin salman of saudi arabia a close close ally the trump administration but trump kept assembling even releasing a bizarre statement. Full of explanation points. It could very well be that. The crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't tonight. We finally have the official public report confirming conclusion. The cia reach almost instantly after nation. That jamal kashoggi's gruesome killing was approved by saudi crown. Prince mohammad bin salman. David ignatius is a foreign affairs columnist. The washington post for his latest pieces titled biden. Stuff for jamal shoji. What happened to him should never happen again. David what's the significance of this report being released. Well chris release the report that the names of the saudi crown prince mohammad bin salman says he approved. The operation is a kind of accountability. It names him it shames him. It brings this to light but the obvious question then is if the cia fanned that he was responsible for this killing of our worship pos colleague. Why isn't he being in some way punished for that. Essentially there are no sanctions against him as a result of this finding and unfortunately i think it's pretty clear that the biden administration for all of the criticism that joe biden had made of saudi arabia has decided that. It's just too risky. The us interests to sanction the person who is likely to be king of saudi arabia for many years to come. And that's a great disappointment for people who knew and loved. Jamal khashoggi That in the end although there's a kind of accountability there there's there's there no significant sanctions against the person who by our own account approved. The coming i mean there was always you know there was. There was always the sort of phrasing around the time that this happened. I remember very rumor covering it. It was it was such a and appalling story in region. There was always the phrasing well. Mvs would have had to have known right this. I mean what this intelligence assessment saying he didn't it wasn't like in the air as a key. Someone said like can green light and muhammad button. Salman said you can go. Kill person. Chris unfortunately the report the version that we have is actually thinner than i expected. It says that he approved the operation to capture or kill jamal khashoggi. But it doesn't say specifically that he ordered the killing and there's a lot of evidence that you'd expect that our intelligence agencies would have that is not cited in this report so in that sense doesn't doesn't move us a whole lot further it's really more analytical than it is evidence of specific and decisions perhaps there additional details. The cia has that it wasn't prepared to declassify but the really isn't much more here than what we knew almost two years ago and i in that sense. I think there's more that it would be good to know about what exactly what we know about what happened. You mentioned the fact that there are no sanctions Being directed at muhammad bin salman. There are other Other people in in saudi arabia that that there will be some sort of travel restrictions or sanctions aimed at and you talked about the kind of balance here of interest. I mean you know. There's a real question here about what the us saudi relationship looks like going forward and whether some kind of break with the kind of very i think flawed and pathological codependent so these two nations over many decades is is on the horizon. Or whether what. Today's six is that we're going to continue down this path. Well the language that sector state to blink can use today which other administration officials have been using is that this is an attempt to recalibrate the relationship but not rupture it rupturing the us sadie relationship I think that probably would be harmful to us interests. But that doesn't mean that we have to to give a in effect a waiver to somebody who are our home. Evidence says to killing that person should should be subject to greater Sanctions that you'd think they should be disallowed from traveling to the. Us should be a visa ban on him. There should be something that says. We really won't allow this going forward. I think in the end the was decision. The us saudi relationship is so important to us security time when we really are standoff with iran people decided to be careful. And that's a. That's a disappointment to to people who loved and worked with democra- show g david ignatius on thank you so much for coming on the shows evening. Thanks chris tonight. House is poised to vote on the covid relief. Bill that millions of americans are desperate for republicans are lining up against it. Heather mcghee on the exclusionary exclusionary tactics. The right what. She's called drained poor politics. I'll explain sometime in the next few hours. The house will vote on president. Joe biden's one point nine trillion dollar cope relief package and while the bill. Overwhelming democratic support is wildly popular. Republicans are dead set against it in part because they have honed a kind of politics in which denying good things to everyone. Their constituents is worth it as long as they can exclude the right people the excellent new book the some of us what racism cost everyone and how we can prosper together author. Mcgee looks at how a white majority turned. Its back on government wants it became strong supporters rights perfect example sort of metaphor for the book which is incredible and i cannot recommend enough the public swimming pools right like the one. You're seeing right there. All across the south particularly at one time a symbol of government provided public. Good right a great thing for the people for years. These pools were segregated and when black family sued and they won the right to swimming pools many cities and not just in the south rather than integrate them just drained those polls got rid of them so that no one could use that half century later. We are still suffering from what mcgee calls drained pool politics. Mcgee joins me now heather. I have a said. There's multiple venues on twitter in the podcast we did. The book is incredible. Extremely vitally important book for everyone to read. Please please please do what you can read it. If you're watching us talk right now and this metaphor. I'd been haunted by the metaphor the drain pool since you brought it up. I didn't know the story. Why is it. What does it say about our politics that story the story of the drain pool really stand them. For the way. America turned its back on the formula that created the greatest middle-class the world ever seen some of the greatest public investments in infrastructure. That was the envy of the world and instead since civil rights. Which of course was the last time. The majority of people voted for a democrat for president and voted for the party of the new deal. Once it became also the party of civil rights we've had rising inequality we have had a gutting of our public infrastructure and goods a retreat from the very sense of the public by the majority of the White voting public and that has been something that has cost trillions of dollars in economic growth. It's cost in increases in poverty in in my book. I talk about how there is a cost for everyone from the zero sum thinking that progress where people of color has to come away people's expense right because don't want to swim in the pools. The idea that you know you have this thing and rather than share it. It's like let's not have it. And then you see this reflected in public opinion this polling data in the book sixty five percent of white people in one thousand nine hundred eighty six believe the government ought to guarantee a job to anyone who wanted to provide a minimum standard of living in the country. White support crater ideas between nine thousand six hundred sixty four from nearly seventy percent to thirty five percent and has stayed low ever. Since are we still in the shadow of that transformation. We really are. I mean we have to remember that we need government to do. Its job to invest in our people. In order to address economic inequality and that in fact the corporate faction that has really ruled politics for two generations now and delivered sort of manufactured poverty and concentrations of well could not be succeeding without the majority white voters voting for the republican party. Time and time again. So you take the code relief. Bill which is more popular than basically anybody in congress and yet the right wing is already saying. We're gonna use the zero sum politics a republican congresswoman from south carolina. Said i i see. Joe biden opening up the border instead of opening up our schools. How is that taking care of our children right. That's clear zero. Stop this bill. White voters is not for you even though of or is it obviously is this. Bill is for brown and black people and so they feel confident in voting against pandemic relief because they know that white resentment of the idea of government that would put them shoulder to shoulder with black and brown people enough to keep them in power. One of the things i like. I love about your book and might take away from. It is also about how people on the left re conceive a building multi racial solidarity for better government. And for everyone to thrive that that you talk a little bit about like the discourse of privilege and how privileges absolutely present omnipresent in american life but there are a lot of white people who don't feel particularly privileged and you talk about ways in which stitching people together in a common struggle across race so we can all get better things from our government. The the book was written along a three year journey where i talked to hundreds of people and the most inspiring and hopeful people were people who had really rejected the zero sum paradigm. They had linked arms across lines of race and organiz for things. I began to call solidarity dividends the idea of things that we can gain only to get that we simply can't do on our own and that racial resentment in the drain. Pools politics has stop from becoming more widespread things like cleaner air. When a multi-racial coalition took on a big polluter things like overturning. Right when governors medicaid expansion veto with a multi-racial coalition in one of the whitest states in the country. You know we really do have to recognize that the multiracial anti-racist coalition that we saw in georgia for example is the key to delivering on the promise of addressing inequality and really recommitting to public goods for the public. No matter what they're calling you really see it at this moment. To when like the dividends of a functioning government are so obviously life and death for so many people i mean. It's the whole story of the book because it is disproportionally hitting black brown indigenous folks. It is disproportionately crushing. But it's also terrible for everyone and if we had a functioning government that would be better for everyone from drain pa- politics of the texas power outage to the pandemic response if we had a public health system if we had a universal health care if we didn't have the right wing politics that said that basically a disease that hit first and worst in black brown and indigenous communities was not gonna bother and never going to reach white america inbred stance right. This is a blue state problem for those other people. That was the rhetoric from the white house. That zero sum. And you see what it is cost country. You know. i truly believe that this whole right wing. Playbook is also really aided by the ruled rigs of our The rigged rules are government. Rank. i mean obviously we could have a fifteen dollars. Minimum wage is popular across the country. We have your worse pro alec of the filibuster right restore majority rule. Heather mcghee who's book is called the some of us. Thank you for making time tonight. That does it for all in you can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on msnbc don't forget to like us on facebook. That's facebook dot com slash. All in with chris.

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