20 Episode results for "Mrs Dalloway"

Ep 493 - Mrs. Dalloway, by Virginia Woolf

Overdue

55:18 min | Last month

Ep 493 - Mrs. Dalloway, by Virginia Woolf

"This is a head gum. Podcast while andrew and craig believed the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should read by now Hey everybody welcome to overdo podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is craig. Name's andrew in the face that you've been making lately before you wind up to start saying the name of the podcast does make it look like you're inviting angel to yeah habit your body. Who could is there. A greek which is which is the greek god of writing. You look that up real quick. I'm inviting is no jerry homer god of writing oh muse fath- thought off. That's egyptian okay. That's gonna say did a bad. Google did a bad job sing to me. Oh muse about a complicated podcasts. Stor enter into me so that i might record this show which is about books yet Each week on the show one of us read one of them tells the person about it and then we get out on the other side. And maybe we've learned some stuff as we've discovered when we've read other books. It is best to assume that the greek gods are all surrounding us at all times in an testing us to make sure that we're meeting up to their expectations. So yeah whichever greek god is into you just. It's best if you just pretend. There's one mike look over your shoulder right out and all the time i'll miss listen to our podcast. That'd be nice. I mean they've seem like they have time on their yes true. I buy that We're gonna talk about a book. This week i read a novel by. Virginia woolf called mrs dalloway. We have talked about virginia woolf before what books that we read by virginia before andrew So we read we read orlando we you read orlando. I read orlando. That sounds about right to the lighthouse. Are there any other ones. No we talked about her and the reason that we're doing this episode is the hours episode. Yeah I read the hours a few months ago which was based on mrs dalloway and on air. You basically dared me to read this book. That's the best way to get somebody to do something to to get them to begrudgingly. Agreed to it in like a high pressure public situation a lot of success with that method. And what's interesting is that i could have stopped the show and edited the part where you dared me out of it you could. Have you know you had that edit. And you didn't do it. I think this is how we got. You reloaded rings to just kind of happens like this. Yeah yeah well here we are. What do you what do you want. We should remember some things about virginia woolf just in case someone is like just come into the show justice covering virginia woolf virginia wolfe is an english author was born in eighteen eighty two and died in in nineteen forty one She is a fixture in the literary canon for many reasons including her work and her sexuality and her history of of mental illness and what her works have to say on on those topics she was a. She's a modernist. Yeah school of literature. That she is she is part of. And what you need to know about. Modernists is that they're modern. It's the whole my like self-consciously avoiding like recreating previous kinds of art. Like you're you're trying to do something new and you are doing that on purpose and sav just like kind of doing it as an evolution like a clear evolution from a previous thing. It's more like in opposition to our in response to the previous thing. Yeah i think that comes out. And that comes out of world war one being so unprecedentedly. Traumatic in horrible that. Nobody knew how to process any of yeah. That's the that's the shortest answer on that one. Yeah i'm not gonna pretend that's comprehensive. But that's part of like i went back and listen to the orlando the orlando episode in the intro to The hours episode. And that's my summary of the summary of the dosage assure modernism. This is a very modernist episode that we're doing right here or is it postmodern who knows anymore. They're one and she also was was she she's also pre well known for like a stream-of-consciousness sort of writing style which i think mrs dalloway traffics in a lot. As the account of one day in the life of one woman who is like planning party. Yes this is her third an awful or no her fourth novel. Excuse me I had my bullet points wrong. Because like yeah sorry. Her voyage was the first one night and day jacob's room. This one is nineteen twenty five and so the other novels that we've covered are still to come Lighthouses next i think in orlando is after that and i think a lot of folks point to this as the like. Oh this is what she would be known for like. I have heard of those other three novels. I just said prior. Mrs dalloway except for every time i've mentioned on this show like the other virginia woolf books i've heard of there's like they resonate out in someone who's a listener and is a fan of wolf should write in and tell me which one of those i'll read at some point but this book came from too short stories that she had worked on previously. And i think. I don't know if the for if mrs dalloway in bond street had been published. I think it had been published prior to this novel. Being written and the opening line is different so this book is famous for its first sentence Mrs dalloway said she would buy the flowers herself. That's getting of the day. Okay apparently in the short story. It was said she would gloves herself. I'm left sort of nonplussed. Guess what kind of questions do you have about the flat about the flowers. And the mrs and the herself guess you. I guess you pick up a lot. Well i don't even know if you pick up a lot about mrs dalloway from that. I guess i am left. Assuming that is having someone else by the flowers would be an option hung. She she i guess she has to help probably means yeah she's married and these flowers are significant enough to her or whatever she's doing in some ways she's chosen to do it herself instead of delegating. Yeah or else. She just has problems delegating in the first place. Also i get it see. We're learning a lot just with a few words if by learning you mean pool and stuff. Alvar butts then yes. I'm i'm learning all the time pulling stuff out of the text. This is what a close re we don't do close reads on the show where we just pick apart ten words at a time or so. That's kind of how we do. Our bonus don quixote thing. That's true one of our friends. When hearing that we are still reading don quixote said. Are you still reading don quixote. Yeah so that's you. You'd asked me to find interviews with wolf about this book. I didn't really find anything on on a quick search. But i did find an interview With a professor and critic named merv imre who edited and annotated collection of wolf's working was talking about mrs dalloway in particular and she says quote hits that sweet spot and her career the middle period of her novels and with it a much more deliberate and purposeful understanding of her own craft. Which you see in the diaries and drafts. A my approach is that the entertainer is a kind of companion along with the author a friendly voice or an occasionally critical or compatible combat. Voice i transcribe the entire manuscript myself. And i never been that close to text before in doing this. I realized just how political novel. Mrs dalloway is. Many of my students ask. Why should we care about an old posh woman throwing a party but when you read it you realize how concerned she is with british imperialism. And how bitingly satirical it is is about an entire society coming out of lockdown and mass death and how to grieve without compensation. That's a great quote. Yeah so there's i. I don't i i can't always count on one of us having a smart thing to say so we can outsource that to somebody else. Yes there's somebody smart saying something smart about mrs. Yeah there's a. There's a letter that wolf had written. I was reminded of this also speaking of smart things to say right. I love san smart stuff but we don't always got so bad at it. It's fun to do. And you get there Marine howard wrote the forward to the addition that i read And talks a lot about this work being this modernist work. That has responded to the war. that's responding to other mon. Modernist work like ulysses by james joyce responding to prove. We're gonna have to repress one day it's been almost five hundred episodes and we've avoided it so far so okay. Let's keep just like neo. Dodging those bullets. And there's some stuff in there about this. The political nature of the text of the sense of time talks a lot about how. We've brushed over this today. But wolf was also a pretty respected literary critic and published a lot of different essays on on fiction and nonfiction. Like think she'll start a lot of private stuff that letter. There's some speculation that mrs dalloway is like a response to or like in some kind of conversation with james joyce's ulysses and wolf is. She has a lot of bad stuff to say about ulysses but only in public but only drive it. Excuse me private but so. She was apparently working on an essay while she was writing this book. And there's some stuff about the The the unity of time like the whole book taking place in one day being kind of set within this one location with these characters that does feel very like greek aristotle poetics kind of stuff but then you said that earlier andrew about like never. This was a smart thing. You said about nev- botanists. Not wanting to write the same story twice or the same type of book twice and wolf said in a letter about the curse of writing modernist novels i have to create the whole thing afresh for myself each time. Probably all writers now are in the same boat. It is the penalty. We pay for breaking with tradition and the solitude makes the writing more exciting though the being read less so one ought to sink to the bottom of the sea. Probably in live alone with one's words which is an auspicious or inauspicious. End to that quote But yeah the sense that you you can't just write a bunch of novels like this and have the be part of a series like wouldn't you couldn't just have a whole series of mrs dalloway novels that function this way which is interesting. I think mrs dalloway showed up and a number of short stories by wolf after this book was published but No this is not like you. Don't this isn't the seven th in a romance syria. This is not genre fiction all right. So i've told you about the opening of this book. Andrew and i'm glad that you did okay gonna do the plot as it were because i didn't know a win to bring this up but you'd like struggling to decide whether you think the plot. The book has applauded. Reminds me of this hub article. I found called the thirty six. Best one star amazon reviews of mrs dalloway. No and it's a lot of. It's this article is a joy to breed because there are a lot of people being critical of the book and not having a plot and then they're like one or two like virginia woolf reply guys who are popping up all these negative reviews to t- there's one guy named dvd easy. Yeah that's indeed who keeps popping up to tell people how wrong they are. And they don't like mrs dalloway but anyway my favorite of these referred to mrs dalloway as quote as bad as faulkner. Just being very wordy and verbose and all kinds of just like coming at you and be in sort of vague and shapeless and so so yeah when we talk about the plot of the book understand that that is not widely understood to be the point of the book or like why you read the book. No so let's talk about the plot. And i'm sure it won't take long is what i'm saying. Yeah clarence is going to buy some flowers for a high society party that she's thrown and she's going to explain it all the somebody and then a man comes in through her window. There is a a window feature in this book. I wonder if clarissa explains it all got her name from clarisa dalloway. That's interesting maybe four. It's not interesting because it's not true. We'll never know no one it up ever clears. The dow is buying flowers. She's walking down bond street in london and she's looking book went like bookshop windows. And jesus picking out some flowers she bumps into this guy named hugh whitbread. Yes hugh signature hewitt read. Yeah he kinda stinks. he's just. He's just like a pompous obnoxious dude. Most of the guys in this book stink for various. Most people in this book stink but anyway and like wall. She's out on the street. Noises happen a car backfires. A plane flies overhead in the sky and these events are ways in which wolf will like kind of shift. The camera away from dow away for a second give us a little bit of somebody else. Some other person. In london responding and noticing the sounds So a cup. Some of these characters come back many of them do not. They're just people living in the world having thoughts about things primarily when the car backfires. It's who's in that car. Celebrity is in that car. is it the queen. there's a sense of like. Would you be a celebrity. Whose car was a very. It's a very fancy car. I it's also the nineteen twenties so all cars are kinda crappy. Yeah yeah. There's an aeroplane in the sky and it spelling something in the air. Surrender dorothy it. It's people don't know if it's spelling like one person thinks spelling cream. Oh one person thinks they're pretty sure it spelling toffee is. It might be an ad. It's unclear what it is. And again it's mostly different people reacting. You're getting all these details though all thrown at you. yeah And mrs dalloway is like in and out of this part of the book. She has met hugh she's bumped into one or two other people she has looked in some shop windows The big thing for her in the first part of this novel is that her former love. Peter walsh peter. Walsh peter welch. Peter walsh Something he is back in town he has spent instead of boy. He's back in town away in india And he is as he tells us later in the novel he is here to like. I think kind of deal with some marital divorce paperwork point. I'm sorry to keep in. Mind is up as at the point when india still a subject of the crowned that is it is. I made a note of that. Because you know so that post i think the that starts coming apart in nineteen forty seven when india gets independent. Something like that so here. We are postwar one. So there's a lot in this book where these like upper-crust people have thoughts about england. Most of them are good. Thought most of them are good thoughts or at least even if they have quibbles end qualms with what specifically happening in england. They're li- they're still feeling very protective and rally around the flag about it. Got uh-huh uh-huh and yeah. We're twenty years from decolonization. We are the empire we are now coming out of. World war one. It's been revealed that britain is no longer like the biggest military power in the western world. Like there are reasons to not think that you are the best people on earth and some of these people think that they are Is that some of the underpinning is certainly came into this book not expecting it to be political. I had not done that like the research coming in. I knew about it. Being a woman's day buying flowers and stream-of-consciousness like inner monologue inner turmoil stuff. I was not expecting the commentary on british class. Stuff that i probably should have expected knowing when it was written but still i. I didn't know get on virginia. Woolf's twitter and tell her like stud stick to gay kissing. Stop to stop doing all this political stuff. You imagine telling telling someone to stick to gate kissing. Don't even think there is. There is no civically talked about how little kissing there was in virginia. Woolf's like entire body of work. So i mean there is a kiss. There is a kiss between two women in this novel. it's very notable. yeah but you're i'm just making financial. Okay that's all i'm doing. The thing with her and peter is that she had rejected his proposal years ago and married. Richard dalloway instead. He's were. I think he's in parliament. He works for the conservative. Government does a lot. Somebody calls him. Like has steady has a second rate brain. Which is while. he's he'll never be in the cabinet but he seems to be competent and fine It's peter's opinion that he's kind of boring in and has Rendered clarisa a like less interesting version of herself and she could have become sure Worth noting that most of these folks are in their fifties or sixties. It is a very middle aged book from these perspectives. And i think that's important. Does that cover clarisa too. yes Fifty two. I think unless i'm just remembering but There is this sense that like we made through. were one or they. We made it through the war. Didn't know we made it through the only world war that there will ever be great war And we our generation you know we were not necessarily ones in the trenches but like the world is were part of this big changing world and most of us have most of our potential to change behind us. So now we're gonna on this day. We're having a party. Were gonna have a lot of feelings about how most of us have changed. And not in the ways that we expected to do so The scene between peter and clear so that happens a little ways. The book gets really close to 'em expressing feelings for each other. it's a lot of internal monologues about their feelings for each other and he cries. She kisses him briefly. They have more internal thoughts and feelings. And then just as. He's about to ask her if her husband makes her happy courses daughter. Elizabeth comes in and peter runs away and she goes. Remember my party later and Invites in a panic to her party which he had not planned to do. This is the set up to a seinfeld episode. Gotta hope not the other major character in the novel is this guy named septimus smith. He is like thirty ish He is a veteran of world. War one And he suffers from. Ptsd in the book and in this era it was just kind of blanket. Lee referred to as shell shock And so folks who might come to a wolf novel expecting some investigation of mental illness or at least some stuff that might resonate with what we know about wolf in and her life like this where you find it in septimus. I believe this is alluded to not disillusioned and this is depicted in the hours. there was orig- originally the draft of the story Clarissa dalloway dies by suicide at the end of the book. Septimus coming into this was like later invented as she was working on the novel And he does by the end of the book die suicide and his the beginning of his story is that he has attempted it and his wife is seeking treatment for him and he his stories. Very sad He suffers from a lot of like hallucinations. And shell shell. Shock is one of the things. Yeah yeah. I mean that's all anybody calls it in iraq. I mean that that is the you term that is used to encompass a wide variety of like p. t. s. t. and other related things that we understand slightly better now but yeah that was. That was the phrase. Kept coming up while i was reading stuff about the book Was shell shocked and he has married a young woman from italy. This woman lucretia and or the criteria. I think there's z. In there And she wants to have kids or and again. I'm telling you things that are like we discover them in their heads as they're working through their problems and i'm sure a lot of this stuff is happening like you are putting it in order for me because that is how a conversation about a book has. Maybe you're not getting all of this. All right in a row all neatly lined up by no necessarily like you get a couple snippets of the two of them earlier in the book when the characters from dow aways plot will like wander by them in the street and go those young people look sad they they have a whole lifetime of married sadness ahead of them just they wake kind of thing so beautiful yes so moving and she is taking him to a different doctor to try and get him different treatment. That is going to that. Doctor wants to commit him to facility and keep him away like separate him from her 'cause he doesn't think it's healthy and that's causing tension for them At some point. Richard dalloway goes to lunch with a lady who may or may not like clerks a more on lady bruton to come but he walks home from. Lunch is kind of looking around at the thinking about his wife. Go and i should go home and tell her i love her. I'm gonna buy her flowers. I definitely gonna tell her. i love her. I love her so much. My life's kinda sadam sixty. I don't know what i'm doing. I'm gonna buyer some flowers until i love. He gets home. He gives her the flowers and he doesn't delleri loves they. Just there's just a moment where they go. Yeah you gave me some flowers. Thanks for these flowers. Very men have always been very in touch with their emotions. Good at communication they understand each other The what else the septimus plot resolves after. He thinks that the doctors are going to like kill his soul by taking him somewhere One of the doctors is attempting to see him without lucretia consent. They always they never actually talked to him. The one guy. Mr holmes after that mr hall no difference after septimus like i says he wants to take his life he says you're a funk Like is just yeah. it's comedy. is that the medical. I was not long back thing a character in a novel from nineteen twenty two or whatever to be like you're in a funk. Come on and they never really talked to him about his treatment. They only talk to her. Which on one hand makes sense but they're also like ignoring the patient in front of them and so he takes his life and this doesn't intersect with classes plot at all until she does throw her big party. Which based on the hours. I was not. I didn't know if we were going to get to the party. 'cause i don't recall us really getting to the party in waiting for godot party. Yeah i was waiting for something like to happen or not happen. That would prevent me seeing the party but we do go to the party. There's a lot of people there. The prime minister shows up. There's lots of people getting good party. It's a well it's an important quote unquote party. That's why met. Why says a good party. Yeah there's no dancing. There's not room for dancing so many people there to important people. Yeah and it's kinda dizzying. The the beginning of the book has a lot of people out in the street law. Different perspectives the middle of the book. Slows down a little bit as we dive into these other characters and then the end during the party. The party and wolf is just like. Let me give you a paragraph from this person a paragraph from this wacko person in paragraph from this person who judges everybody and a paragraph from this person who's kind of simple but as rich and it's like all right. Ms dow got talked to all of them and the big sticking her craw is that peter is there. He did show up to the party and like his eyes on her are like making her feel very self conscious about the life that she's leading sure and she finds out at the party that this young veteran in town has taken his own life. And i think the exact quote if i have it. I'm not sure if i have it. She it something to the effect of ono death at my party. Basically like how. How i death or somebody died the idea that someone would come to her party and talk about death. I see of all things is kind of shocking to her. And then she considers it and you start to see that like they are foils for one another. She tells herself a lot that she loves life and he has kind of found this. He doesn't think that human nature would will allow him to continue living his life and she sees that he has found. Some sort of. She tells herself anyway. She doesn't know who this person is. That maybe he has found some sort of freedom from whatever confinement. He was in and in a different story. You might think that she would make a similar choice. she is not she goes back and rejoins the party albeit kind of not sure how she feels about herself. Or you know there's a lot. I think there's a lot of interpretation to what you think of her internal state by the end of the novel. And even if i had to write a book about every party that made me question how i feel about me. I would be a very prolific off her. So there's there's something to the quotidian nature of the book. That i think is what has made it work for so many people like the characters. Don't do any like obviously some big things happen in the novel as i've talked about but like a lot of the pages of the novel is people walking around to people eating some food together And people go into one party yet and they're running errands for the party sometimes and like but wall of that is happening. They have these big thoughts about who they are who they are in relationship to these people in their lives Who they are in the relationship of the country they live in to the war that was fought And so it's it's one of those things where maybe it's like here in the in the year. Twenty twenty one. It doesn't sound as revolutionary to have this be this like internal monologue thing that characters are doing. I think it's probably progress. It's progress to the point where it's kind of thing you expect in a lot of literary fiction. Well yeah like a lot of time. You get something. That is innovative at the time. And then you just put it in the toolbox of things that you know popular fiction or popular. Whatever is allowed to do because it's been done before yom's becomes another thing that you can do I don't know. I found myself thinking of something about like just the people sitting around like kind of sniping at each other without sniping at each other openly. Reminded me of some of the stuff. That's going on like austin even but this has a much richer more metaphorical internal description of all these people and were like learning about their entire lives within their brains and minds whereas like austin might dislike. Give you a glance and talk about what they're you might. You might get a bunch of people dismissed. Because they're they are they have some weird deficiency or they're not worth taking seriously as a partner for marriage but you would actually then go to that person's internal monologue and find out that they had a rich inner life and thoughts about those stories are still really much more motivated by action. Even if they're not like you know it's not like fast and furious action but it's still like people doing things via what i mean. I do wanna just like. Would i would read victorian novels that were it. I don't want to go all like pride and prejudice ambi- you don't want everybody but like can we. Just what do you get when you append yokyo drifts to any given victoria like weathering heights coal in tokyo. What do you. What does that book you know. Start with the title in working out. Yeah lady chatterley's lover tokyo drift. Yeah premie frankenstein. Or a modern for the tokyo drift to jane to air new on my brain was going to two gentlemen to verona. But you know it works we. I want to give a couple like snippets of some of the other women that we meet in this book that i've i've of glossed over in in focusing on clemson peter. Yeah because we got a smooch right. Can we talk more about okay. Let's start with the smooch. So the smooch is. Sally seton who i think is like a childhood ish. Friend of clara's grew up with her. And peter and richard in the bunch. I think Spent a lot of time with close family Away from her own. It is like a little out of the mold. She smokes cigars. She's kinda brassy she gets into hijinks and things and they strike up a friendship mostly kind of this felt like a trope that is now like i'm very familiar with how like fresh was for different people at the time. I don't know but she like excites clarisa because she is not like openly flouting all of society's conventions but it's just like different and is willing to step outside of the boundaries sometime. You sure and they start up a friendship that clerk immediately recognizes his is both very deep and while it reminds her of the way that you might become interested in a man. She does say that isn't it is incredibly different because it also built on like the solidarity that women in the society share instantly which is a theme that crops up a few times between some of the characters share and it does In their younger years leads to them Alone at one point. I think they're arranging flowers or something flowers crop up all over the book. I can't imagine why that might be a recurring theme and they do kiss briefly and it is this like electric moment. it does invite some jealousy between Peed with peter and the whole thing so then clerk kind of shuts it down and then obviously she moves on and mary's richard and the kind of all that is left in the past when we encounter sally later in the book. Who's gonna going gonna come to the party She's married says at least once maybe two or three times. That has five boys. Like i don't think she says five big boys but the intonation is like i've got five big boys. You're just thinking about that. Because i upload that video henry saying that he was a big boy allure. It's it's both that and it's the ways in which wolf is is having clarisa see. Oh this woman who i thought was who at the time felt very transgressive and stereotype. Breaking etc has has been domestic sized in the way that this whole time. I've been carrying her as like outside of that. So while that kisses is very important. And i think is part of if clarisa looked back on her at all the things that she like diversion points where she could have not become mrs dalloway. That's like one of them But she sees sally and tallies also a version of that here as well. There's the this is the. There's one scene with this woman named doris gilman To name i for somebody who kills men. I think it's supposed to be an angles in anglo. Could sized does good. You nailed it and anglicized anglican vic side is an anglicized version of a german name like keel mon- or something still sounds incredibly intense. Who came i don't i. I don't remember if it's explicit in the book when she came to europe or when her family came to came to england. Excuse me But there's some illusions to like anti german sentiment during what we're one in how the dow always gave her work as a teacher and stuff and she is lower class though than mrs dalloway and her daughter. Elizabeth has struck up. This really like powerful friendship with doris. Gilman and that is a hurts kill. I'm sorry why. That is a relationship that i definitely remember having an analog in the hours there's the like there's a there's an nyu professor or something. Who's this kind of like activists lesbian figure that throws a lot of things back in the mrs dalloway character in that novel as well like So here they have this kind of like. We are two different types of women. Gilman really doesn't like that delaware has never really wanted for anything. But they both share a love for elizabeth and hopes for elizabeth's future the conflict in as much as there's conflict because it's this novel that we see. Is that like before the party. Doris wants to take elizabeth to the stores. Like just good. Take her out for the afternoon. Seventeen i think and get some internal monologues. Ms skillman do not hate. Mrs dalloway turning her large gooseberries colored is upon clarisa observing her small pink face or delicate body or air freshness fashion mig- skillman felt fool simpleton you of no neither sorrow nor pleasure who've trifled your life away and then clarisa says after she is like pondering a page or two about. How monstrous this woman is for like trying to steal. Her daughter away from her and clearly doesn't like her opposite was as miss. Gilman stood there and stand. She did with the power and tasks eternity of some prehistoric monster armored for primeval warfare. How second by second to the idea of her diminished how hatred which was for ideas. Not people crumbled how she lost her malignancy her size became second by second. Merely miss gilman in a mcintosh whom heaven knows. Clarisa would have liked to help at this dwindling of the monster. Clarisa laughed saying goodbye. She laughed and then later. She laughed at me dog. God like i do. I do hate her from the bottom of my heart and it's this like all she did was say i'm taking your daughter the stores. Hey remember the party later. And they stare each other and then she laughs and says goodbye like on the outside and wolf is on the inside and like these women hate each other and here. It's it's really good. There's the that stood out stuck out to me. The other one is lady britain. Who is another. i think. She's slightly older than clarisa. She regularly meets with folks. Like richard and other men like he whip red and has them like with bread. Has them write letters to the editor for her because she has opinions and wants to influence things in the world but knows that like her stuff isn't always going to get published or she needs to like phrase things in ways that men in power will respond to so she needs to talk to these dudes over lunch and she asks richard house clarisa at one point and up until this point it seems pretty clear that labor does not care for clarisa at all at least as what we've been told When she said in her off end way house clarisa husbands had difficulty in persuading their wives and indeed however devoted. We're secretly doubtful themselves of her. Interest in women who often got in their husbands way prevented them from accepting posts abroad and had to be taken to the side in the middle of the session to recover from influenza. Nevertheless her inquiry house clarisa was known by women infallibly to be a signal from a wellwisher from an almost silent companion who's utterances half a dozen perhaps in the course of a lifetime signified recognition of some feminine comp- comradeship which went beneath And it's just like smartly writing in this book like there are multiple times throughout this book. Where i was like dang you got him. You gotta virginia like you nail that person in like a paragraph and now i actually am able to hang my hat on some of the more challenging language because i have a very like clear signal of who this person is and what they're doing. I think that the book wouldn't have worked for me if there weren't those little like guideposts of character wall while these people are like regretting and reminiscing and dreaming and things that could all get really formless So yeah the the other stuff. The last thing i'll i'll say is that and this is i'll take from the From the forward that This phrase endurance is now the heroic mode. Is this thing that the forward mentions as like. We're out of world war one. What do we do in the world. Now we there. Lots of depictions of people just like. How am i going to live. Why do i live. what do i contribute to. Society is society worth contributing to And so it was like to say to me. This is not and that's what this book's about this. She's like a one point. Dalloway is trying to figure out what she's doing with her life. Why does she throw these parties. She recognizes that like. She's not super clever. She's not super well read. She is like attractive but not like super like beautiful. In a way. That's going to change the world or maker. some sort of fashion icon or or something. Like she's just a lady who is interested in people and people need a place where they can gather and feel seen and the book like gives that a lot of humanity but also undercuts it incredibly with this like end yet. This type of person is is has no notion of who septimus is and has no notion of the people that are that are not living after the war or the broken people following the war. And things like that. So i think for me. The big tension of this book is like yes. It's this wonderful remarkable novel of inner life. That if you're interested in like what stream-of-consciousness writing can do for that and things like that. It's really it's really powerful but it is also what you said at the top of like it is way more satirical and critical of a post war britain. That is like leaving people to languish. That is restricting. Social mobility for women Yeah and it's all wrapped in this like modernists. I had to event a new kind of novel to get this. I don't know what's an errand that you've run recently andrew where you had big thoughts while you were on. The errand had big thoughtful house on the air or just like and when i mean big thoughts. I don't mean like you dreamed up a new type of quantum computer but dislike. I understand I don't know if i've i've i've gone through some life changes recently whether you're talking about years or or just like months like i changed jobs. Recently he was a big thought. I you know. I've had a child and there are ongoing cushions about whether to do that again. Like i do most of my thinking about that stuff when i am on errands where my brain does not need to be one hundred percent engaged in the air in that i am on the whole time. Yeah i don't know that. I have a specific example for. I don't know but i can i. I don't know it's weird. It's not maybe a as good of an example. I have a lot of sense. Memory of aaron's i was running leading up to my wedding and while that is a higher stakes party than mrs dalloway as i have a lot of i have a lot of memory of dislike what roads. I was on in like what rental car i was driving. And just the those individual blocks of travel and stuff were kind of whatever. I was just going through traffic right but there was a lot of time during all of that process. Where you're like. Oh what i got. I'm thinking about the hundred people. I'm going to see this week. And all of the ways in which they've impacted my life and whether or not. I want them like how i want now. Whether or not how. I want them to be moving forward. I'm making cuts mares. But there is a there is a. There's a pizza place that every time i pass. It is so when when susannah was in the hospital She has she had to be her. Water broke and then she had to be in houston. Is this whole thing. So so it took a while and i Went home for a couple of hours that first night when we were just kind of waiting for stuff to have to take the car homes. We won't have to pay for parking in the parking garage and like check on the cat and make sure that because we look we it was just as rush magin. Yeah yeah. It was just a saturday morning. I was sitting in like playing dragging my ipad thinking like well unless this is probably just another lazy saturday unless something happens and then something but so. I was walking back up to the hospital from home effort. Drop the car off and everything. And there's this pizza place where i stopped and got a slice of pizza and every time. Pass that pizza place. Like i go through that. Not just memories of the entire like experience of of my fleet son being born but also the like that pizza place is a is weirdly aid like dividing line between my life before i was apparently life as and every time i pass it. I just think about that and so that there's a i don't know if that answers your question but does thing. There's some heavy things that is a heavy thing. Yeah yeah for sure. I think about when i think i don't know i'm just thinking about. We're just wrapping right now. Buffalo chicken pizza. There's a i would. I would abolish chicken pizza right. There's a cookie place whose emails i still haven't unsubscribe from because i got them for you. I i get that cookie places emails as well. But like i get those ads and i just think to my self about my friends and their kid and that's nice I don't think about regrets. Post war like the people in this book but there are other things that trigger those. Yeah and i think that for someone reading this book now in the year. Two thousand twenty one after a or during a big series of lockdowns and life and world changes and here in america we have purportedly just ended a war that went on for very too long Just like i don't know. I think a lot of that stuff will hit and it probably has hit generations of readers because those things and those like big societal changes rippling into your everyday. That never goes away. So that's that's the closest thing to a smart thing. I think i've said today. Sure but i still i brought. That's martin luther person said earlier so i'm still feeling pretty good about it was a good smart thing that you brought things. If other folks at home think inder. Thanks for listening to me. Tell you about this book course. And let's get outta here if folks at home. Want to tell us about the cookie places that give them memories and emails. Send us an email at overdue. Pod at gmail.com hit us up on facebook and twitter. Tell us more at overdue pod. Thanks to emily sean. Katie rachel salamander. That's what my notes say. Rebecca that that seems more. That's what my notes say. Thanks everybody we have to talk to you throughout the week. Thanks nick landis who composed our theme song andrew folks overdue podcast dot com where we have links to the books that we have read and are going to read. I hear from people on twitter. That because of supply chain stuff. Like if you intend to buy physical books for people For this holiday season you should be thinking about buying them now. So if you go to the links on our website those take you to bookshop dot org which We get a small cut of that but most of it goes to your local independent bookstore. And then you get a book so think about that. Why don't you patriots dot com slash overdue. Pod is our patriotic page. Help support the show by both of us. Fun fancy computer parts they help us exports audio really yeah and also like books and hosting and all the you know the the things that help us make show happen every week Next week craig so we have a little bit of scheduling stuff happening because we've got a guest episode happening at the end of the month where we're going to read the book. Aragon with natasha from the unspoiled podcast. I've read like the first quarter of that and man. Ooh gimme this fantasy stuff. Oh but what he really. I'm whoa whoa tropy fantasy stuff. I love it okay. Great i read the boxcar children for next week. We'll talk about it. Their children live in a boxcar. Can't wait can we talk about somebody. Else's experience of the nineteen twenty was not on purpose. We just looked into it. The roaring twenties september. You're on overdue and then we're going to put together a spook schober schedule for Tober twenty twenty one. Yeah keep your bill that yeah. We'll get that up on the website and our social feeds asap as all got andrew. All right everybody thinks listening to the show as always until we talk to you next time. Try to be happy employed. That was a hate gum podcast.

mrs dalloway clarisa Mrs dalloway orlando virginia wolf andrew Richard dalloway peter virginia woolf septimus jerry homer muse fath don quixote james joyce merv imre Marine howard craig clarisa dalloway hugh whitbread
Ep 480 - The Hours, by Michael Cunningham

Overdue

1:03:53 hr | 3 months ago

Ep 480 - The Hours, by Michael Cunningham

"This is a head gum. Podcast while andrew and craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale. They will not shy away. From spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus these are books. You should have read by now. hey everybody welcome overdue. It's podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is craig. My name's andrew never know which let them get stuck on next time there's five of them in there and they're all good to get stuck on except gee i think are you wouldn't well the c. And the g are both kind of tricky. Because you can't do like a max headroom mike. My name is craig. And you don't wanna do like i'm craig goo goo goo. Yeah that might own correct. See that's good that's like. Wwe like let's get ready to rumble. Voice i like that what do you. What would you do for andrew. Andrew us get real stuck into that. Wbz cares bell andrew without eu. God that's what i always book. Podcast for each one of us read. The book tells the other person about it and you the listener get to enjoy enjoy. Experience dislike. your is up to you. What reaction to it as long as you keep mashing that download. It's funny. How people think that podcasts are like a one way medium people. Listen but like the the two way part is where listeners decides whether or not they like yeah y'all collectively communicate to to us through the download numbers boy so craig We are not spending multiple hours discussing the book you read this week. Just one hour. So what book are you going to spend exactly one hour telling me about. You pointed out that irony. I read the book the hours by michael cunningham. You got me andrew. You done gone head all the time. No relation by to michael cunningham. That you know of that. I know of good point. Keep you keep you know play. Better get on one of the dna government websites and anyway This book is going to talk a lot about virginia. Woolf we'll talk about that and why in just a second if you want some more overdue. Virginia woolf content go back to july fifth twenty fifteen hop in the old time machine and go back to another era listened to episode one twenty two to the lighthouse or go back to may of last year episode. Four sixteen andrew talked about orlando so like. We have not read the book that this book is about. Yes so Virginia woolf of course the english author born eighteen eighty two died nineteen forty one who is a fixture in the literary canon for a bunch reasons including the quality of her work and her sexuality and her history of mental illness then the book that the ours is interacting with primarily. Is mrs dalloway which is a nineteen twenty five novel. Yeah wolf is a character in the hours as i am given to understand is correct. One of the three perspectives that the book features of the new york times review of the hours from nine hundred ninety eight mentions. Its interactions with with the mrs dalloway and with wolf a little bit. Okay and it says. We don't have to read mrs dalloway before we can read the hours and no amount of pedantic comparison. Hunting will help us understand it if we don't understand it already. But the connections between the books after the initial perhaps over-elaborate laying out of repetitions and divergences are so rich and subtle offbeat that not to read mrs dalloway after we've read. The hours seems like a horrible denial of readily available pleasure. As if we were to leave a concert. Just one the variations. Were getting interesting. Why is the new york times giving me homework andrew because the new york times and nineteen ninety eight. Everybody who's reading the new york times. Hey daddy two three years ago. Loves homework man. I mean he wrote. That's not wrong. I mean that's not a bad show. Programming note for like august is if you wanna go read mrs dalloway. Maybe i will sure make. We've got july. Almost set august is still up for. Okay okay. maybe i will. Because i have not read that book before so if there are some things that i forget or fail to mention related to the hours and what it is saying about or referencing and mrs dalloway. It's because i don't know it's because you're stupid idiot. Who hasn't read. mrs dalloway. Yeah so tune. In in august. When i become mr dau away i. I'm good enough to read the new york times. Now i would have been good enough to read it back in nineteen ninety eight. What should we know about your potential relation michael cunningham michael cunningham who may or may not be a distant cousin of mine was born in one thousand fifty-two. He's an american author and currently a yale. Senior lecturer teaching creative writing at yale came out of them. I will writer's workshop another alum of the illustrious iowa writers workshop the ours is his most notable work. but he's also published since then the novels specimen days by nightfall and the snow queen and then a bunch of other short stories screenplays not fiction and other stuff he. He's received bunch of awards. A witting whiting whiting witting. Why keep going writers award nineteen ninety five a guggenheim fellowship nineteen ninety-three guggenheim national endowment for the arts fellowship in nineteen eighty eight and a michener fellowship from the university of iowa nineteen eighty two and the our specifically one one. What would hewlett surprise. Won the award that you get one for writing a bockner award. Yeah yeah that's fine all worship. Oh hewlett sir a ha- Yes that's fine. We will book because it was adapted into a film and i was adapted into a film in two thousand and two with meryl streep julianne moore nicole. Kidman kidman played virginia woolf. I believe i think that there was some. Yeah she won an award for it. There was some discussion of the prosthetic makeup that she wore that. I mean i was looking at the poster of it and i'm like well my experience of nicole kidman kidman's knows is much different than my experience looking at it in this post to make her look like virginia woolf sure but yeah cunningham is beyond the source material had no real involvement in like the screenplay or or any of the other creative work that happened for that movie so as i did find a piece that cunningham written for the guardian in twenty eleven called virginia woolf my mother and me which is my favorite six my favorite podcast and he says Talking a little bit about the like the book opens. We'll come back. We'll come back to this after we take a break in a few minutes by the book opens with a depiction of woolf's suicide and this book does engage with characters thinking about and dealing with suicide so like careful treading into this book. If you need to. But that that's like one of the things out wolf sell yes And he talks about how she you know. She took her own life among other reasons feeling about like the failure of thinking her her last work Between the was a failure he talks about. There's a few kisses in this book. There's a few important kisses that happen and he thought it was interesting that they're all only to in her entire body of work. One of which is in. Mrs dalloway which i think is probably why it resonates in this work. Any talks about how read that as a as a criticism of virginia woolf's work not enough smooch switching. So that's not what it is and he talks a lot about how he was trying to read that book when he was fifteen. He read it to impress someone he thought he was gonna date. And that's to equally huge. Things is like talking about a book you read when you were fifteen for the rest of your life and also reading. Something seems smart to impress somebody else who you want to dismiss. Never done any of those things not at all. I don't believe and he fell in love with the book and it kinda followed him throughout his life and he like the bob take to write a story about wolf working on his douay. He found like a kind of a what he called a diptych structure where it was like a trip down. Thank you could say that on. Oh man i'm clean pot on a family podcast counters. He thought about doing a back and forth between wolf and a modern version of mrs elway which makes it into the final version and it still wasn't working. He put it aside and then as he says. It is sitting on my computer. I pictured clarissa dalloway and pictured wolf creator standing behind her. And then unbidden. I imagined by mother standing behind wolf and so the third character in this novel that will talk about character named laura heat laura brown he fashioned on his mother and the particulars of her life in the middle of the twentieth century. Following world war two distill life that she led. he doesn't the pretty moving paragraph where he talks about. She'd read the book. He says he's not sure. Virginia woolf would've liked the book though. He thinks that she didn't have to though. Yes that's the good thing about it. But maybe she would have enjoyed the fact that someone played her in a movie and then he's like my mom didn't love the book because it was like her life in it but also he got to show her twenty minutes of dailies from production because she was Passing away from cancer at the time of the film was being made. So he got. I think rick rubin gave him some dailies from the from set. What does that's very nice. Cool yourself a movie. Yeah yeah The other thing to know about Cunningham is he is gay and the all three of the characters in this book are somewhere on that spent their either or by or q big theme of the book the q. Part of of lgbtq and he but he is and he's got this quote out there about not wanting to be known as a quote gay writer that he is. I think been forced to elaborate upon in many subsequent interview but this is one that he was he was talking to someone from out dot com and said what i meant to say is that i don't want to be seen as only a gay writer i've always been out and most of my novels are concerned with the lives of gay people. I'm perfectly happy to be a gay writer. Because that's what i am. I never wanted to be was pushed into niche. I didn't want the gay aspects of my books to be perceived as their single primary characteristic like any halfway serious writer. I'm trying to write about more than my characters. Outra qualities and focus on the depths of their beings their fears and their devotions which take place at a level deeper than sexual orientation there are of course differences in the way gay people live and what we experience. But we're not from. Marcy says there's a lot of good quotes in that interview. He he goes on to talk about like you know he wants. What if you got rid of the you know. Like gay and lesbian or queer book section at barnes and nobles or something and he's like that is pro. You can make an argument for that to be the case but you can also make an argument for like does does a kid. Who is you know not feeling comfortable where they are because of who they are. Find some solace by like finding those books more easily And he has. I mean hundred point. Why can't i go to the straight book. Section of a barnes and i would. Let's sneak into a barnes and noble and just make a straight book section please on twitter dot com slash overdue pods are social media. Feed tweet at us. Which section of barnes and noble. You think the straight books exodus. Because i think people have a lot of fun go read that out dot com interview with him. It's called catching michael cunningham. I believe we can post that on. Social. we'll speak to okay. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk about the book okay. Enter can't do it alone you can. Do you need some help. I do need some help. what if it was. What level of help do you need like fair help. Good help best hell. Is there somewhere in above that. I don't know is there. You tell me you've got the copying front i do. It's better help. Overdue is brought to you this week by our sponsor better help which makes professional counseling accessible affordable and convenient so anyone who struggles with life's challenges can get help anytime anywhere better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating with them in a safe private online environment and under forty eight hours and you can send a message to your counselor at anytime. The service is available for clients worldwide and licensed professional counselors have a broad range of expertise as listener. You will get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash overdue join over. One million people have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help better. H e l p dot com slash overdue is not good is now great is now best. It's better help craig. What did you do today just like what did you do today. Well henry's been running like a one hundred to one hundred one degrees fever all day. We have he is fine. He has he has primarily wanted to watch tv which he calls t yeah of course and he will be stopping all up and down the house. Repeating tbt tb. over again. If i asked him if he wants early for dinner. I asked him if he wants them cheese and he said to me he wants the cheez tv. Mostly my thing is just like it's because it's worried they sick but this is more information than you ask for him. A little were they sick but him being sick also makes more of us which is nice so we had a little snug okay so he watched curious george tv. What you just did could be a novel similar to. I know it was long. But jeez jerk about know. So the concerns of what i what i understand to be mrs dalloway and what we're gonna talk about in this book is like it's the day in the life of a few characters and they're kind of quotidian struggles. I think i'm using that word correctly. And the way in which little moments in their days. Yeah you got it included you. The way in little moments in their days kind of echo out into larger parts of their life or into the perspectives of other characters. There's a lot in the book. Stylistically where you can tell cunningham is kind of riffing on what wolf will do I've from what. I recall in to the lighthouse. But certainly in this book you get a lot of like. Hey you and i are in a scene and in chapter. And i'm kinda talking i'm thinking i'm the narrator but not really the narrator and then like all of a sudden in the next paragraph like you have opinions and then you're kind of like the camera just floats really effortlessly Between the heads of the people that were that were talking about as we listened to before the break. There are three primary characters in their three. Like perspectives follow. Their is virginia woolf as she completes her novel. Mrs dalloway in nineteen twenty three. The other main like point of tension or conflict for her is that she has recently moved out to the suburbs and rochester. Where like outside of london or her and her husband. This is all based on real things They set up their own printing. Press scott her away from the publisher that her half brother was running. I think which allowed her some more creative freedom but obviously she was not living the life that she wanted to leave. Leave out in the suburbs. There is laura brown Referred to as by chapter heads as mrs brown in this book. Who is a post world war two american housewife nineteen forty nine outside. La this is the character that is roughly based on cunningham's mom i think she is reading mrs dalloway and she has a a husband and a son and isn't sure kind of what she wants and if she wants any of it okay then. There is clarisa of vaughan. Mrs dalloway she had a relationship with a guy who's still in her life but they are not in a relationship and haven't been for a long time who wants because her name was clarisa decided to call her business dalloway forever. Okay you know. Or mrs d know. Just because because it's cute or fun. Yeah now and she talks about like you know. It's been over twenty years if not longer and every once in a while. She's like just tell them. I don't wanna be called. Maybe the maybe today. I tell him that's why. I've resisted all nicknames. Yuzo yeah i listen. Some people in high school decided to call me. Andy and i had a chance. When i went to college to make a break from that and i did successful you did and i'm not i'm not going back and everybody on twitter's gonna call me andy to be funny like people have been there before. Why don't you have an original get blocked. You get muted in timed out. Don't call mandy to andrew to you. Yeah can't can't spell. Andy there's no you and andy that's true that's true. There isn't clarisa. Von her. Plotline takes place in nineteen ninety nine. I think or somewhere in the late twentieth century She is a publisher and she her story from what i understand is like what if we beat by beat reupped naval mrs dalloway with a few other like updates and things sure but as clueless is to Suppose this section is not a reverend but this section is to mrs dalloway. As she's the man is to twelfth night yes you got anymore now. I just want to make sure. I i needed to google a witch of the shakespeare play. She's the man was a refund. I know it was one of them. I'm more familiar with. She's the man than i am with the bart's fair enough. The book does open with a with a prologue of sorts at his set in nineteen forty. One it is a depiction of wolf putting a heavy stone in her jacket pocket and walking into a river. It is pretty intense. It is also fitting with the theme of the rest of the book. Were kind of people going about their day to day. Things like the closing image is really it. It is gruesome not in a horror way but gruesome in like a yowl way. Yeah yeah you know. She is in the river and a little boy in his mom like walk by. They're all walk and he is like just like walking across the bridge where nearby and not knowing that she's in there or anything like that just kinda life goes on kind of stuff and like i said the book. I don't know if anything you've read review wise andrew kind of eliminated the structure in any interesting ways. I think for me just like jumping between perspectives. A lot that's the main thing that's the main thing up for me. I would classify clarissa dalloway as or course yvonne the like a plot. She is the the rapper in which all of this happens We probably that's because she is a retelling of mrs dalloway. I guess but the kind of be plot of brown or laura brown like reading this novel and kind of working through her own. What i do with my life stuff it ties it together and there's a fun little twist at the end that maybe some people figured out before i did. I won't ruin it for folks. Actually i think i will keep that one aside. But there's some connective tissue in the end of this book that i wasn't expecting that it was a little pleased with Which choose your own adventure andrew. Which plot line do you wanna go down. Which character do you want to hear more about. I guess. I wanted to hear about virginia woolf first because that's the least purely fictional of the three perspectives right like that that's the one where cunningham. Probably his mom he's probably like he's probably following her life closely in some ways that we don't really know can't really talk about but i feel like the book flows from says she's probably the the one to start with. Sure gonna make sense at work. Make sense for me. That's that was actually my first set of notes here so you chose correctly that and it starts with her like embarking on this novel. Mrs dalloway and she is working to overcome her struggles with mental illness. Her struggles with my grains that seem to exacerbate her mental illness. I found this quote not in the. It's not in the novel but She she had written somewhere on being. Ill let us sufferer. Try to describe a pain in his head to a doctor and language at once runs. Dry dislike actually trying to explain what you're going through is impossible and there was an interesting image that i was what i found that quoque so i was trying to figure out if cunningham had come up with this conceit where he refers to her headache as like almost like a his dark materials. Style demon like damon that exists outside of her that off. let's her. That is not a corporeal being but like she might be walking down the street and all of a sudden her husband will notice that she is like not in her right state she might be averting her eyes from something or whatever it might be and jesus is my my headache is over there and it could be anything from a rectangle of light to just a feeling and i just thought i was really struck by that as a way to communicate the experience of illness or discomfort that for a lot of folks. There is not a good way to convey that struck me. Yeah and she's embarking on this novel. That is meant to show the power of the every day. That's why asked you what you did today as i alluded to earlier. Her husband is helping her publish now. So he's like working in her house or working in their house. They have some lackeys who come in and literally run the printing press itself and she lays out what i think is like this interesting mission statement for the type of literature that wolf rights and this is all cunningham's words i think but he did do. He cites a lot of a couple of different biographies as well as woolf's diaries and letters he's but she says men may congratulate themselves for writing truly and passionately about the movements of nations. They may consider war and the search for odd to be great literature only subjects. But if men standing in the world could be toppled by an ill-advised choice of hat. English literature would be dramatically changed and she goes on as she is planning the book. Mrs douay clarissa. Dalloway she thinks will kill herself over something that seems on the surface like very little her party will fail or her husband will once again. Refuse to notice some efforts. She's made about her person or their home. The trick will be to render intact the magnitude of chris's miniature but very real desperation to fully convince the reader that for her domestic defeats are every bit as devastating as our lost battles to a general. And i think that's like mission statement for a lot of fiction. That has arisen since wolf. And we've talked about plenty of those that type of fiction on the show and sometimes it is easier to talk about than others because like plot matters less right. I don't know if you wanna give voice any of those struggles whenever you're tackling one of those books but it is tough for me to be like because this book is like away boss of flowers and you went to visit someone and then sad things happened in the book was over for her and his other lady was trying to make a cake and she had some feelings about it and then she spent afternoon hotel and then her story was over. Average annual trying to write a novel and sister shows up early to her house and she has some feelings about it. then we move on. Yeah i mean it is just it is. It is easier mentally for my leg adult. Adhd brain to read a book in a timely fashion for the weekly podcast. That idea if there is a stronger plot thread yes to pull on rather than just like a bunch of stuff that happen and the that's not to besmirch the a bunch of stuff that happened format. There's a lot going on there. That is good but it is just is easier. Yeah you know what. I mean i do so i'll hit a couple of the semantic things that the wolf chapters illuminate so she is really dealing with how trapped. She is now feeling outside of london and she remarks that like if they moved back there it might not like abate her mental illness and might not save her life as she is already considering like you know thinking about taking it and whatnot but at least or at least i think in her perspective. She's like wasting away but at least she wouldn't be doing it in the suburbs. And there's something like i dunno. She feels very isolated. There was something she says she almost gets on. A training goes to london before dinner. I don't know if you've ever dislike. I've never done this andrew. I've never dislike left somewhere without telling like lower coyly. Like i've never just like left the house and just spent three hours like i've ever gone somewhere. We weren't supposed to have plans or anything like that but like hey we're supposed to have dinner and it's four o'clock. I'm just gonna leave. Never done that. Never done that and it is like i have like needed to take a walk shorts. Yeah and you just get out of the house. Yeah but never like a. I'm supposed to be somewhere. And i'm not there. I try never to do that. It is as transgressive as it feels in the domestic way in this book. She's i just was really struck when she is walking in the suburbs and she longs for going to the city where she could just like. Walk down the street. And then all of a sudden there'd be another street to walk down and all of a sudden they're just be another street to walk down and it's just a particular phrasing of of the type of life that she's looking for now so when you take them back streets you know so much to do and so much to see yeah I'm just chewing on that one. Sorry good thing about shrek anyway She also deals with this thing. And this comes up versions of it. Come up and i guess the other women's stories but she has like a little spat with her housekeeper. Nelly over like what. They're gonna eat when her sister. Vanessa comes over later and like will leonard. Be satisfied with the pears. They're going to have or whatever it is in virginia was just like i don't know how to deal with my house keeper house. This part of my life stinks. And i feel like i'm bad at it and it's like it's she is version of womanhood that she doesn't feel she's good at but also kind of resents that she wishes she were better at. Yeah yeah and i i. Don't it's later. She she like makes resolution to make Clear away in her novel Be good at dealing with her servants. Because that's a quality that she virginia woolf lacks Her sister arrives early andrew. Do you like when people arrive early when you say not no so if you were okay. What time do you want me to come over andrew. Seven hundred what. If i showed up at six. That would be your fault like everything that would happen to. You would be your fault. And i know i'm supposed to do the thing where i like. Pretend to be the host or whatever but my world at six and my world at seven thirty. Our two drastically different. Yeah worlds for me and you just have to be fine with existing on the outside of that and then when seven thirty does roll around. I'm mad at you so this great great scene. Where like her sister shows up with her and her sister. Vanessa has three kids and wolf is comparing herself to her sister. And being like okay. I'm this supposedly great writer. But what am i gonna leave behind. My sister has made these cool kids. She literally made kids out of nothing. Like isn't that fascinating and nothing. But her sister is a yes. Her sister is ninety minutes early so early and i loved the big ten minutes early. Like i'm i'm a little. I'm probably still vacuuming some remote corner of that house. But like the most of it is done ninety minutes like i'm probably half done okay. I'm gonna give you inning. Give you something you can say the next if this ever happens to andrew. This is what virginia says to her sister. Darling if i tell you. I'm enchanted to see you. Now i'm sure you can imagine how ecstatic i'd have been to see you at the hour. You were actually expected good. Burn some real good burns. That's good that's the thing that Cunningham mentioned a lot in that guardian piece. I said earlier. He talks about wolf being charming and witty and you know having this like remarkable personality at parties and we think about wolf as this very tragic figure and her novels being inherently tragic. And so like. He's i think he's trying to inject some wit where he can to. This woman he knows was more than and then the the like the turning point of wolf's plot is figuring out what she's gonna do with. This novel is clarisa gonna take her own life in the novel or is it going to be another character. And there's this pivotal scene where her sister's kids hold a funeral for a bird they found on the street and it gives her an idea. That someone else okay. It's this whole thing where she finds herself like this. So it's like two teenage boys and they're five year old sister and the five year old sister is like really invested in this bird funeral eh virginia wolfe is like i two very invested in this bird funeral and it gives her a lot of space to like think about death ping some stuff for her is kind of interesting. I don't know i've never. I've as a kid bears pets on the guy. Ever like put a str- a dead like random stray animal on like a funeral pyre or abbar now my my brother try. He had a one time he took in a bird that like fallout of an s and nursed it back to health and it like woodland on his finger even for like a few days after he let it go he could go stand in the backyard and it will come and land on his finger and that one experience sort of did not prepare him for how it normally goes when you try to nurse baby wild animal dead baby birds and and rabbits just around your house not not like sitting around that just entered and left our lives because of that one time that it went well at first shanna that bird though yeah no good job bird and then yeah as far as like pets might made dad mostly handled the unpleasant parts of that and the rest of us avoided it. Yeah yeah yeah anyway. So that's mostly virginia wall. You've asked okay funeral. That happens and it's about the book doesn't quite you know the whole time that that it has started with this image of her taking her own life so it is largely about her trying to find her way this ideal version of a story that takes the everyday life of a character and lens. It the import of great literature. And how she going to get there. Okay so kind of like a there is a theme of this book that is like obsessing over the ideal version of something and the quest to make the best version of what you want kind of revealing large portions of yourself. Even if isn't something that is like this big gigantic thing. So the next the character that makes most sense to jump to his laura brown Who's living in. Nineteen forty nine outs in the suburbs of los angeles She is a fan of the novel. Mrs dalloway so much so that she does not want to get out of bed on her husband's birthday to go downstairs and do anything about it because she's in bed reading this book. What is what she wonders is wrong with her. This is her husband in the kitchen. This is her little boy. All the man and boy require of hers her presence and of course her love. She conquers the desire to go quietly back upstairs to her bed and book. I've never struggled to get away from anything that i wanted to do by myself. Never i've never has as once you get up to a certain age like i don't know i've stopped carrying them about birthday stuff Fair enough so yeah. I can't imagine being bothered by susanna staying in bed. To read a book on your. We'd had like specific other like childcare. Arrangements or something. Yeah sure. And the thing with laura brown is that her husband think his name is dan and brown now. I need to make sure that his name is 'cause you wouldn't wanna use him of being dan brown without stand. Oh definitely her husband. Damned brown author of been dan brown author of the davinci code and subsequent and furniture. And all the other good books that we've read thanks cunningham for making this multiple works inventing. Dan brown laura's struck by the fact that her husband. Dan is just kind of like he's just happy to be here. He's got big like how. How brown see yes ago. Boy book shel-. She said happy to be later. She is talking to her neighbor. Kitty about their husbands but their husbands dan. I think her husband's name is ray. They're veterans of world war two. And they've come back with this like. Hey what do you need. i'll do it. I'm just happy. I'm not still fighting. Were to like just. I can understand that perspective so lucky to be alive thing. That is kind of at least in dan as we see in the book really congealed into like almost Like a labrador sense of like. I'm so happy to see you. Just ha like my tail's wagging just because your home kinda stuff And she is feeling very guilty about not about him making breakfast on his birthday and he's like i'm just happier here. What he want and as soon as he goes off to work we have this long scene where she is baking a cake for him and the cake. Is this like monument to successful domestic life. You i know you andrew and you know me we've ever made meals for people we've ever planned to to host people or something and you really want to go right you really. You really want to go right. And sometimes it don and that sox it dole it does suck dot. Do you feel like data. It can change the course of your life like when susannah made only okay cupcakes for our breaking bad finale. Viewing party that like a made her become the joker of baking. And so she's very good at baking. Now sometimes it can. I don't think. I knew that is not had an origin story. No it's definitely does and it's definitely those cupcakes. I hope she doesn't. It's it's been years since that happened so she doesn't mind me sharing the story. Mostly she dislikes while we talk about on the well and she's a very good baker so You think great you know. We're we're paying her. Do i think Lower the character in the book here not a great baker and she is just kind of really stressing about it being good and it's bringing up all of her feelings about whether or not she likes being a wife whether or not. She likes being a mother. She is pregnant with their second kid at the time. And she throughout the creation of this cake that ends up not being great and she throws it in the garbage oscillating between like really loving her son and really feeling good about what she's doing and being like this. Why am i even here. What is happening and so that that is cunningham. I think trying to do some of what wolf is up to in terms of like here is a. Here's a daily struggle for some people or here is a what you would consider a quote unquote mundane task. But like let's spend the time to find the high stakes version of it but like internal high stakes. Not like you're making a cake for the queen and it has to go well or you die right the like your suzanne example is actually very good. Because it's like this cake is now part of my identity in in the way that like you know you you do certain things and they become part of how you see yourself and you want them to be good. I don't know health that way when we go into like over two live shows in particular i think because there's a there's an immediate feedback of like we do. This is the thing that people laughing at the dump. Stuff that we yeah. We sold them in a while. It's the first time we'd do it after like post pandemic. It's going to be pretty bad for me. Be a rough one. Yeah there's some really. There's a really nice portion of this cake. Seen andrew where she is dealing with her son. Ritchie who is four and she is helping. She's invited him to help her. Make the cake and she. I just love the scene where she's telling him how to dump the flour from the measuring cup into the bowl And the flower doesn't come out of the cup at first so he shakes a kind of hard and it just plops right into the bowl but it kind of startles him and he's never done it before he has no idea if he did it right and he starts to get nervous and a little upset and she's like no you did it great and it's just like the way that she has to manage her own emotions about managing his emotions was really powerful and it. I know that you have ever talked to me about that. I know that from other parents. That i know that that is like a huge part of the work. Yeah definitely is managing your own stuff for her say that she should be doing it by weight. And so that's one reason that the cake didn't turn out. Okay thanks for that. Measure your ingredients by weight people. Okay rather than by volume. Yes okay anyway. Go ahead greg you to write a letter to michael cunningham and tell them that's why she did it wrong no she'd like should in the story. The cake has to turn out badly. So it's good that she was doing by michael cunninghame. Good choice you're saying. He made good character choice but a bad baking choice. Perfect but for the he did it for the right reason. I'm really sorry that interrupted what felt like a a good point i was trying to. I was trying to invite you into a serious moment and you i think rightfully punctured the balloon. I think you did a good job. That's what i do this balloon stuff everywhere now Her neighbor kitty comes by. This scene is like one of those. Oh i think she's good at this kind of life. I don't feel like i'm good at this kind of life. But also kitty doesn't have any kids and i do have kids and so we're both recognizing that we are like good and quote unquote good and bad at being this type of housewife in this moment. Sure They do have a brief kiss. And kitty pulls out of it. And laura it comes out of a moment where kitty is confessing. Some like health scare that she's in and needs like lord of feed her dog and then she hugs her and then this happens a couple times throughout the novel. Where like there is a moment where someone needs even just some sort of hug or contact and then one or both of the characters kind of test the boundary of it and that happens in each of the three timelines and all of those moments are really interesting. Laura's story kind of wraps up with her this kitty moment kind of shakes her. She throws cake in the trash and then she spends the afternoon in a hotel in la so that she could read her book. Should i read drops her son off. She is okay fine And a gets kind of serious after. She's reading this virginia woolf novel and she's thinking about the characters who are considering taking their own life and she likens that choice to how easy it is to check into a hotel which she does under like she's like i'm just going to be here for a few hours but i'm gonna pretend that i'm gonna be here all night and i'm just gonna leave and i'm going to paint it. I don't think you can pay in advance for hotel room anymore. But she does in the book. I don't think you can do that anymore. Well usually you need to leave like your card info. It's like you pay up front but you also can't walk out without paying sure. Sure geared what they need to charge you and her her part of the story kind of ends on her kind of the question of what she's going to continue whether or not she's going to continue with this life that she's kind of unsatisfied with and then we've got the mrs dalloway stuff which we've been short changing a little bit as we talk about the other two but because again you have not read the book no not so. I'll give you the big sketch here. Is that clarisa. Who's in her early. Fifties lives in new york city with her partner. Sally a number of the names in this whole section of the book are references. Either to work by wolf directly to mrs dalloway or other things. Therein sure Accents she there. It's interesting because it's like there's a couple different relationship. Triangles happening in this part of the book. Where a lot of the characters come out of the free love sixties as some of them put it in awful and some of them have settled down into pretty stable relationships. Some are sex some are not some of them the sky that we me a little bit later lewis is like still kind of. He's in his fifties and he keeps dating men in their in their young twenties and other relationships last very long and he can't really find whatever he's looking for and the plot inasmuch as much as there is one that she's getting some flowers for a party that she's throwing for her former lover richard. Who is a poet who is dying with aids. And he got this thing called the carruthers prize that nobody seems to avert of for a limited body of work including a novel. Vat in some stretches is based on her and their relationship together. It is my understanding that this is an inversion of clarisa dow aways like relationship history in the novel in novels. Douay alway. excuse me where. Like i think richard is supposed to be this like early relationship. She had where if what. It's a big. What if relationship. We all got them. We've got the like this. Was someone early early early in my life. And what if. I'd not broken that off. Or what if. I put in the work to stay in that relationship. And that's that's really what this story is about. I think you'll find the more grossly referred to as the one that got away. Which is what you call them when you're unhappier pretending that you would never have been unhappy in an alternate relations. Yes i think this. This novel was interesting to me reading it as it also is like a portrait of a lot of of how a lot of those relationships must have felt like in the late nineteen in like the eighties and nineties Coming out of the aids epidemic and coming out of you know the gay and lesbian community new york. There's a character that claris 's daughter. Julia is like i guess was her prof. Someone called. Mary crawl which is amazing. Name who is a queer theorist whose maybe ten years younger than clarisa and they have this conversation later in the book where. They're both trying to be polite to each other for julius sake. But in their heads there was like a generational divide of like. Oh clearly union partner. Have this like very classic. Yes you're in a lesbian like term relationship. But you're basically just doing the comfortable safe thing that is like might as well. Just be a heterosexual. Marriage and mary crawl is like out there in the streets. All the time fighting. They both get to voice. Complaints about the other person is an interesting like voice to bring into this book. I think i don't know how to give better voice to that like generational divide or whatever it might be. But the richard stuff is like really tragic and he ponders whether or not they'd be giving him this award if he weren't dying and that is like one of the ways in which this book talks a lot about like fame there's a there's a character named for saint ives. Is i think of a name. Is that i think it's a reference to like the place saint. I've which i think is where to the white house. Takes place is like the fake name that you would give you or checking into a hotel like to read a book before the rest of the day Here's the here's the quick elevator. Pitch gift for oliver saint ives. Who clarisa partner. Sally goes to meet for lunch. At one point oliver saint ives who came out spectacularly in vanity fair and was subsequently dropped from his leading role in inexpensive. Three has gained more notoriety as a gay activist than he could ever have hoped for had he continued posing a heterosexual and cranking out pricey b. movies and his scene is a real indictment of character and how he like. I don't know how he functions as a version of fame. That like you think you might want but do you want it. And what are you even getting it for. Yeah as all of these characters kind of like wonder if they could have had a bigger or better life than the one that they had. And then there's this fun line considering the movie andrew where she seat class a sees a famous person on like a movie set on the street in new york city and everyone's like who was that person who deducted a movie trailer i've ever had this happen to you. Interviewed ever seen famous person out in the wild. The only when we lived in jersey city we walked by. When we were in manhattan. We walked by mark ruffalo once. Whoa in a way where. Susanna had seen him. And i had like a glimpse of like a vaguely ruffalo shaped personnel. The corner of my eye but yeah it's like It's a you don't quite realize it happened until it's happened sometimes angry. I don't know. I can look at it and i just i think he just look like mark. Ruffalo have just walking around saying that. He's always angry. Well that's the character. He plays in the movies. Craig sometimes people get casts because they're very like the characters. I want michael j. fox on kenyon college's campus. I think this is the second time we've talked about this in in the last half dozen. We've done yeah well because we were talking about it in the context of you doing college. Sure okay i won't. I won't talk about it anymore. Go find that episode. Good luck to you. But the the line is funny because of where the casting for the movie wound up going Clerks says because even if the door to the trailer had opened the woman inside she meryl streep or vanessa redgrave or even susan serandon would have been simply that a woman in a trailer and you could not possibly have done what you wanted to do. You could not have received her there on the street taking her in your arms and wept with her which is going on and on about like famous people are not the version you have in your head nor are you prepared to deal with them is like the human that they actually are well. And there's the element to that relationship that i've encountered occasionally sometimes in a very small way as a podcast person where there is a like a relational asymmetry. Where they know or think they know about you and you know absolutely nothing about them so it introduces this other layer of separation between you and then it can be a bizarre power dynamic for sure that can swing both ways honestly But it is funny that meryl streep up being in the film it is. It is funny. They did a good job. Johnson there and yeah. I'll just say that. The richard storyline does not end great for the people involved. It's pretty shocking. He's a very moving character. And it's i dunno. The the scenes with clarisa will probably. I'll probably talk more about them when we read. Mrs dalloway but call chat. Yeah well but they're they're probably the best work in the novel in terms of like okay. Here's a web of characters and cunningham. The author can kind of bought between them as necessary. Shuffle them on off stage to give us some interesting context or give us another version of like people wishing their lives were different does not even wishing just wondering what if i had made a few different decisions and yeah you're the relationships in the book are kinda like runny like they all the lot of the interaction between people who are like no one has made a clean break from each other's lives. There's people who bump into each other after years apart there's people who don't have clearly defined boundaries between each other Everyone's kind of questioning how they fit into each others lives And they're not doing any of that out loud. i'll tell you that's all and so like despite your best attempts maybe to like clearly define where people into your life. This book kind of shows how that doesn't work. And i'll just wrap by saying like this book could've been longer and it would have been worse. It was okay. We're fixed length. It felt like i was reading like three short novellas that were in concert with one. Another as opposed to like this deep epic story and kind of overloading. The what the premise of the book was. And we're they like. Were they hurt by alternating instead of coming all at once or am i misunderstanding. The way the book is set up because that would that would be the main difference between the book being as it is in the book. Being three novellas is in nevada. Presumably you get you know one person one person one person instead of you know. I think they would suffer as separate stories. I think they that they were they. There bettered served by being able to interact with each other via proximity. Yeah yeah yeah. Okay and you know. And there's there's a couple of bits of character. Overlap and bits of thematic overlap. But i i got the feeling reading this book that i've gotten from reading some other short stories where i go like. Oh i can see why they adapted this to film. I can see why these characters feel rich. but they don't feel overwritten and so someone takes the store and goes yo. I could give this week of flesh this hour. Make a big movie out of it. We could. I give this to actor and they could come up with all sorts of stuff to act out and the like this character. Yes this is my movie producer character. He works for a ryan phillips. Johnny big time but there. It is for a book that vibes with what wolf does with language while still having its own voice and can at first blush feel very lira and poetic at times. I don't. I didn't come away being like whoa iowa writers workshop. Cool your jets. Like i got stuff to do like it moved and it was pretty lean for what it is. Cool so yeah. I'm excited to dig into mrs dalloway. Proper i did. I didn't know in our in our to remember to put that on the schedule for august will do will do So yeah maybe people who listen to this. Go read that book and we'll talk about it in a month or two Andrew thanks for telling me about zana's origin story. I didn't know that glad that i know it now. I didn't know that you didn't know and so now. I'm glad that you know okay. Cool cool if you want to tell us your baking origin stories. Send us an email at overdue. Pod hit us up on twitter and facebook at overdue. Pado forget we wanna know what section of the barnes and noble you think is these straight books section. At least tell us. This isn't me. Outsourcing a super joke to the people who. Listen to our podcast. That's what else is social media for. Thanks to carry. Molly sean. Olivia dave juliana and many more for reaching out in the past week. Our theme songs composed by nikola info on the war by the show should go good overview podcast dot com. Which is our internet website up there. We have links to the books that we have red and the ones we are going to read those. We'll take you bookshop dot org where you can order the books and read along with us and we get a cut. You get a book you get a cut in the form of a book. I guess and your local independent bookseller also gets a cut. So win win win We have links to apple and google or rss feed subscribe their subscribe and stitches subscribing spotify. Wherever you want really what are you reading. Oh i was gonna say. Patriots dot com slash overview pot. Where you can give our money clearly. That's the most important thing. I need to say. So like me please. From next week. I'm going to be reading imposter syndrome by kathy wong Found it on a list of good twenty twenty one. Beach reads on oprah daily dot com. Because we're going to a beach soon and we had a whole schedule so that is like a brand spanking new book but i also read a quarter of it between noon and like nine. Pm so it's it's a. I am enjoying it a lot. If you decide to relaunch long with us. I do think it will be one of the more accessible read. Alongs nice the that we've that we've had so yeah it's been fun so far and the rest of our july schedule follow so look for that up on the website and our social feeds pretty soon. That's what therefore therefore right. Everybody thanks for listening in until we talked next time. Try to be happy Quote that was a hit gum podcast.

mrs dalloway andrew Mrs dalloway michael cunningham clarisa cunningham virginia the new york times craig woolf clarissa dalloway laura brown wolf craig goo Wbz bell andrew mr dau Virginia hewlett meryl streep julianne moore
About time, pt 2: Time in fiction

The Philosopher's Zone

28:26 min | Last month

About time, pt 2: Time in fiction

"This is an abc podcast. Hello from david rutledge. Welcome to the philosophy zone once again and welcome to part two of about time which is a four part series about time. That's running through september this week. We're taking a literary turn. And i'll guide through the library is sam. Baron offers had almost supernatural capacity to control time. They can speed time. Slow it down. Reorder it or destroy it completely. Or how do they manage to do this. And more importantly what are they trying to tell us about the nature of time itself in this episode. We'll take a look at the fascinating connection. Between time and literature at title starts in the early twentieth century with the rise of modernism modernists. Like james joyce and virginia woolf seemed tormented by time joyce's massive tome ulysses described the events of a day in such excruciating detail. That it's like he can't bear for even a single moment to slip through his fingers. He had help. Guide us through the world of modernist literature and beyond is associate professor. Ten adele zeal cherif english and literary studies at the university of western australia. Ten years latest book. Half the perfect world won the prime minister's literary award for nonfiction in two thousand nineteen tenure. Thanks for joining me. I said thanks for having me. So i mean there's a lot going on in this period with respect to time both in philosophy and science so in science you've got of course people like einstein thinking about time in completely new way in philosophy. Have john mctaggart who's arguing that time doesn't exist or time as a kind of illusion. I suppose i'm interested in the ways in which some of the themes that philosophers are exploring. Scientists are exploring might be interacting with what's happening in modernist literature. So you've got the modernists who are really focusing on. This felt time but then philosophers and physicists looking at timing this kind of almost objective person independent kind of way. What do you think there's any kind of interaction there between what's happening in philosophy and science and what's happening in in modern literature. Yeah to us that christian. It's useful to remember that many monness shit interest. We work of the french philosopher on reduction so becks is writing on time of the mind were translated and published in british general student. Fisticuffs of the twenty. Th century and he's id's of pure duration resonated with many monness was seeking to narrative is in the innovations of language. So they went simply applying begs ideas to literary forms. But there was a shed project. Across the channel so books him was offering a critique of kant critique of pure reason in which kent posited time and space as both i earn foams of sensibilities at once kind of empirically real and transcendently ideal and the idea that human action kind of was defined by natural causality but picks and stepped into that discussion and proposed differentiate time and space and he thought of consciousness as temporal and the number two stream-of-consciousness that we get in more mistakes like leasees. Like mrs dalloway suggests is interest in the temporarity of consciousness and both ulysses and mrs dalloway through the protagonists ugly oppo bloom and closer delaware respectively suggests that the past and the presence consta- so there's a complication of the idea of linear time for example that the calendar suggest. All the time might suggest as well you have to the the focus on can't really interesting here as well so for kant with thinking of time as being almost an aspect of human cognition which is applied to empirical information to structure it and give it form and so it's something that really comes from us rather than comes from the world. Do you think that there's a sort of element in the stream-of-consciousness of sort of thinking of time as something that we inject into reality rather than something. That's there to be discovered. i think it's it's a recognition of both possibilities to be honest in in the sense that new they is that sense of the social time but there is also the sense of is private time that the is really interested in exploring or thematically and stylistically. So i think it's not fencing. But i think they're just these interesting time in its multiplicity. So they're not die that dick or necessarily cushing particular pieces around time they're thinking about the multiplicity of times in the possibilities of them through the literary forms and i think this is where you get almost attention with the approach that philosophers and scientists might take where the goal is really to kind of pin time down nail it down get an account of what it is and yet there's a sort of sense that maybe there's something a little bit too aggressive about that project a little bit too as you put it didactic that maybe maybe a sort of more open perspective is something that we should explore and that. That's something that you get out of this kind of modernist explorations of time. Certainly the invitation to stink motor plate about time and to grapple that christian of hetty represent time. The sense that you're saying what is the time seems relatively easy you can look at the clock. Time is but to kind of pose that question. what is time is open yourself up to. All kinds of philosophical headaches and literature is one of the ways in which we can think with and through time rather than necessarily packaging it up in an easy manner. You know. i really interesting idea that you can use fiction as a way of thinking in and through time one of the things you mentioned was that there's kind of a challenge to linear time happening in some of this work. So how are the ways in which linear time gets challenged in for instance. Something like ulysses or or in in the work of virginia woolf. Yes stylistically oftentimes these challenges. Apart is faraz monez ticks infamously difficult because of the ways in which they think about time formerly so the by which they narratives are presented so sometimes when we think about narratives they worked cause and effect so something happens and then something else happens. You get an important one. It's takes don't work like that. So they oftentimes jump around passed into into the prison disrupts the present the sometimes dot at one point and then jumped somewhere else and then go somewhere else from this so they not takes that adhered to alenia moral of time and also not interested necessarily in thinking about releasing the way that that was understood in the nineteenth century. I looked around. And so modernity ushering in certain challenges in new innovations and were looking in their literature literature for ways of representing what they saw as knew about them so discussions around time through books. What for example. You was a challenge the thinking about how do you represent these or felt time in inwards in a very interesting thing to be thinking about which one is takes very often during and so you say that. They're not sort of interested in realism. Can you say a little bit more about what you mean by that. I mean we listen. In the sense of the nineteenth centuries three against a a horrible reductive caricature but thinking about really soon as interested in in the mature will of the presumption that language is a reliable medium by which to convey meaning those kinds of things. Scores oneness takes have kind of suspicion about language. They're they're aware of the wising. Mitch new during the i would wall. Words were harnessed for propaganda purposes for example. So they're very much interested in thinking about how maybe world comes into being through the words that we have available to talk about the world rather than words to simply reflecting the world and that i think will succumbs out with the interest in taunts said languages into something simply that we have at hand to discuss time but languages. So fees away of shaping time or shaking thinking about time at least which i think recalls us to the rising which we very often rely on metaphor for thinking about. So you'd think about time as revile or stream or these other consummate officials that we lean on to think about time can to some degree helps keep shape to thinking about tom and how we feel it what we how we respond to time. What i'd like to do now is take us back in time. A little bit into the nineteenth century and think a little bit about literature and time then so in the nineteenth century we've got newton and his picture of time newton's picture of time as one. That's quite different to the picture of time that we have in the twentieth century so for newton time really is this kind of almost mechanistic thing. This clock that ticks away and beats the counts of the universe in regularity. And what i'm interested in is how newton's picture of time whereas understanding of time might have influenced literature narrative around the nineteenth century. So is there a sense in which newton's thinking about. Tom gets picked up in literature or has an effect on the during that period. Yeah well in some ways and think about the influence of ideas about time a nineteenth century which is to also sidestepped the flurry of interesting time and time keeping. It was also based in practical development. So he the ontological distinction that may between absolute mathematically time and relative calm continue to fuel philosophical debate willing to nineteenth century ago. What time does feel. And he's mechanistic. Universe that soared time as universal and unchanging the medium through which everything mood probably found expression in time narratives such as hdl's the tarnishing. She was speaking about before but as much that was going on in the nineteenth century intensive technologic developments that not. His censure was also registered. So we think about england in the mid sixteenth hundreds. I'm tom devices. Such as puck approaches and domestic cox were largely interesting ornaments and gadgets for the social elite than anything else. And at that time jimmy sixteen hundreds church bells and diagnose signal circles largely regulated communities miss. It wasn't such a thing as national time if we skip forward to the eighteen thirties. I'm tom telling was becoming increasingly secularized and synchronous national time was being developed to support trade and travel and we also saw pieces increasingly owned by the middle and mola classes and as a consequence they chimes rang throughout nineteenth century. And it's literature. So some charles dickens and his serialized writings probably a case in point boys to medically and stylistically for the serums that deacons roach eighteen. Forty nine forty one. Todd muster humphries caulk and in that serial. We have a protagonist who stolz manuscripts in a grandfather. Clock and cox chime throughout dickinson's writing. But it's also interesting to think about. How the very serious not of dickens writings also pointing to how it new synchronised times making demands on wichita so dickens had to write installments quickly deadlines and the cooks around him reshaping. How and what he wrote. So this is kind of interesting. Since that these new time it was being rushing the nineteenth century was also determining how which was being written by the same time as that literature with representing the medically. These cops a might also be with mentioning that you between the seventeenth and nineteenth century is lawrence stones. Mid sent tree eighteenth century takes life and opinions of tristen shandy and that takes his mutt By the kind of temporal digressions that modernism with vita claim as its own has is notorious. Opening in which otis shanties asked by his wife and says happening while having sex. If he's welds long case kach which is the grandfather clock. so it's quite an heartening. And joyce together at least three times psychological time reproductive biorhythms and also these new forms of objective timekeeping. So time is definitely present in which a chump largely all the time a lot though interested in there one of the things. I'm really interested in. Is this notion of serialisation. So is it the case. That serialisation is kind of new and in some sense invented by dickens when he's developing these novels or is it an aspect of literature that was around before but dickinson. Mealy took hold off used yes. The cereal was settling before is kind of mentioning around the time. That dickens was writing so he was writing for newspapers. In following that he's novels would appear as novel so he was often renting as in terms of civilizations. But the new writing to deadlines at this nikola weekly installment immersed in the past. That wasn't an issue. It brunner. such things weekly installments. Because newspapers didn't come up weekly. Sorry that could change in. How time was being instituted. Industrially through the publishing industry had an impact on the demands on officers at the time. You think this makes a difference in dickens writing. Do you see a kind of sense of urgency in virtue of the civilization of the novel. He's writing or is that something that doesn't really show up in what he writes. I think very much does in the sense. That is the invitation to write in such a way. That you end with a cliffhanger just like the series of today do on ebay so that you will encourage to go and by the next paper so that you know what happens next. So there is certainly an impact on the rhythm of dickens writing in that regard during the philosophy zone this week where all about time in fact this is part. Two of a four part series. That's all about time. Sam baroness talking with the university of western australia's tenure del zeal about time in fiction. And the way that novelists have reflected and engaged with the philosophy of time of particular years. Want to time travel again. This time gonna jump much further into the future times that we've been looking at so far we've talked a little bit about the twentieth. Early twentieth. century talked a little bit about nineteenth. Century wanna come forward now to the kind of postmodern era the period that arguably we might be in now with respect to fiction. What happens to time once we get to sort of the modern day once. We're looking at time from a postmodern perspective in literature. I guess my my stance think about this is thinking about some theorising around wichita. Pets go by the end of muslims. We might think who've series such as joe bordered or paul really i guess they interests With the ways in which it could be said that virtually has gained dominance over materiality and how they registered in contemporary literature. And perhaps that isn't interested in the contemporary moment of the compression of ton so knew anything about novels like dont'a lilos what noise which was published in nineteen eighty five. Here's this really famous sane on our famous saying in the novel where he talks about the most photographed bond in american disappears under the right of repetition and the image and this is utter senior crump which is Pending popularized by works of john boatyard let novel by delilah. I'm point omega for two thousand and ten. He has a character who reflects on time by watching alfred. H hawks psychiatry slowed down to a twenty four hour. Running time told in that instance that we need time to lose interesting things. And i think what those examples direct us towards at least thinking about. Is that personal identity. Perhaps promises in some ways to do away with time so with the instant ninety that's ushered in by various technologies. We have perhaps a compression of time and space in terms of all the plastic arts and e. arts might be bitter position to realize represent this compression formerly because in many ways the written takes to formally tied to tarm insofar as one word for another so there is that sense of time attached to narrow teens but definitely pushed lunatics takes personal theorising poses the question as to with them time has been compressed to the point that instant he has by ridden the idea of times we gaps known in on this end in nineteenth century. Here is you put this in terms of doing away with time. I'm wondering also if there's a sense in which there's a kind of mastery of time that's coming out so you know you've got this person who's watching psycho slowed down to twenty four hour period. And they've got the power in some sense to do that and to manipulate time in a way that maybe we didn't think of ourselves as having that capacity prior to the late twentieth centuries. There's something about not just doing away with time but like bringing it under control pulling it out of nature and putting it in our hands absolutely. I think it's both in the sense again. That capacity of that you charge to consider these things in tiny as it were so i definitely thing that stain about what chain psycho in slow motion does have a kind of fantasy of having a mastery autonomy so often time is saying something that we're racing against that it was kind of an enemy in some regard and that same sets up the idea that we might have this kind of mastery over time but at the same time you know there. Is this kind of debate over whether those very technologies that allow us to ostensibly slow down time and have mastery over whether those technologies are all sorry doing away with time. I always feel with postmodern literature. That i'm being set up in some sense. So they are offer this potential mastery of time but at the same time when it comes down to it it feels like the themes such that time might take control of me or the thing that i'm supposed to be able to control. It's going to take troll of me. Is there a sense. In which the way that this mastery of time might be coming out in texas kind of duplicitous so sort of while offering us a kind of maastricht. Perhaps they're also suggesting that this is something that we are a slave to in some sense. That time is not something that we can control. In some kind of fantasy insofar as postmodernism has a concern with this assemblage of kind of grand narratives so it calls into question nationalism. All the kinds of certain he's that would otherwise orientate us as contemporary subjects. So i think in some ways they scenarios that we seem post-mortems takes less about trying to beat you publicists or to give us a false sense of what we might think of as relationship with time. It's kind of fantasy so that the anti that we might have control over time is kind of fantasy that it then disassembled and unknowingly. Sorry as well these kinds of moments suggesting simply but they they kind of moments of fancy of thinking about what what if we did have mastery over time When in fact we know that we might not competing okay so far. We've been looking at time in the nineteenth century in the twentieth century and in the modern period. And we'd been jumping around a little. Bit what i wanna do is zoom out completely and almost look at literature narrative from kind of timeless perspective. And think about the way in which in a very general sense regardless of the era in which someone might be writing time might be important to narrative picks up on something that you mentioned earlier namely that in a certain sense when you're writing a story or when you're producing a novel one word has to follow another and there's a kind of inbuilt temporarily to every narrative so is it the case. That time is kind of inescapable and essential to fiction and is that something that people are grappling with when they're dealing with time in narrative. Yeah i mean again. These horrible sweeping generalizations. But it's arguable that own. Our teams are about time so in an obvious sense in story see events or thoughts unfold in time and again that metaphor points to how we think of time figuratively Given that these otherwise inscrutable the idea for unfolding on. But what say may by these on very mechanistic little written narratives militia laced work because one word for is another so there is that temporal dimension to narrative poorly postman theorist argues that wrought he's always in deferred time always delayed. Sorry there. is this sense of time being essential to narrative evening visnar standard agreement on what that relationship might be. And if i mean. I'm wondering if because time is so deeply woven into narrative whether that makes narrative kind of uniquely positioned to disrupt time. Do you think that there's a special place for fiction in challenging. How we think about time. Well i guess too much not theory from basically aristotle was narrative has the capacity. Not the duty. To interrupt and rearrange roy events that otherwise type unplaced cosily and chronologically so nursing itself gives shape to varying orders of time and also explore and represent varying temporal schema. So a story can occur in the arrest us or it could be continuous Can abide by what we think of as linnea time and within the world of a text. The pace of time can be split up. Oh is compassionate. sentence We can say characters transported to the times and of course narratives themselves moved through time insofar as we can read check speech day to take an example so in that sense there is almost no obligation might be literature to be disrupted forces thinking about tommy pot because of the way in which one would full and other so. That's up very much that you're king with tom. No so just the job because of its imaginative flexibility simply can disrupt out thinking about tom and maybe put forward of possibilities that other disciplines don't have the freedom to do a really like the idea that fiction has a kind of duty to disrupt time but i'm wondering about what the upshot of this judy might be is their purpose that you think might be served by disrupting time in narrative. I think i think it's certainly not just doing it for the secondary. It's to kind of make us think about how maybe time works thinking about the concept purchase at time places on us and on narrative. It's also too. i think. Allow the kinds of stories about time to be told so perhaps time is harnessed by particular social organizations with our a capitalism. Or whatever name you want to give to it to auto bodies in stores in particular ways and the fact that literature can disrupt those times scheme is also perhaps lends itself to disrupting the stories that that organization of time support. So if time is imagined in different kinds of ways in the ways in which say. I'm afford stretchy lawn imagines time then you allow other stories. Otherwise of being in the world also to emerge so it becomes a kind of sight of activism or resistance to potential mall wrongs that might be being enacted by organizations large scale institutions places. Sort of safe place to resist. Is that the idea. Yes i think that's the case and again if is a very strong strain in which of thinking about the past and the way in which the past in some narratives perhaps is something that is safely quartered off away from the president or as literature can insist on the president of the past if that makes sense and that can really important its thinking about the way in which maybe clue new projects in the ongoing fix on stored or wising which we think about memory or how we think about nations diets or how you think about ourselves as on subjects so in that sense there is possibly that come of activism that is very much linked with disruption of time that we oftentimes see in narrative and does it work in the other direction as well. So we're thinking about the future. Does narrative also sometimes insist on the future being present for similar kind of purpose. I think that's the case in the sense that again deters is so enormous and multiple. It's hard to draw these generalizations out but certainly if you think about science fiction for example it's got a really great interest in the future. There is that sense that while they feature directed they're also very much speaking oftentimes to prison conditions as well so yes at deer of past present and features of collapsed in these narratives in that can be first purposes. Bitter will say can be thinking about how it treating the world how we treat other people. Those concert students tania del zeal. She's associate professor of english and literary studies at the university of western australia. She was talking there with produce. A sam baron. And you've been listening to pop to in a four part series on time next week we're going to be looking at all. The ways in which our perception of time can be chronically. Skewed to the point where you have to wonder how any of us ever manages to be on time for anything so set your alarm for the philosophy son next week on. David rutledge hype. You can join me then why.

mrs dalloway dickens newton David rutledge tome ulysses adele zeal cherif john mctaggart university of western australi faraz monez joyce stolz virginia woolf james joyce tristen shandy otis shanties kach becks dickinson tom Sam baroness
The A&G Friday  Replay Hour One

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

42:43 min | 2 months ago

The A&G Friday Replay Hour One

"Good afternoon would you like to try a free. Sample of our double fudge brownie. Oh sure that's very good. Just take one more just to be sure. Yep still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and gyco saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance Macadamia nut. I taste you. Take one more sir. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more geico knows there are many reasons why you ride from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind. That geico always has your back. Twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer service but pamela had one reason in particular my skin is extremely averse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers and the biking community. It's been life changing geigo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. Is that shakespeare. It's geico that. Shakespeare from one of his unpublished works to be not for awakening day. Give the berries. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more no. It's from gyco. Because they help save people money. I hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare geico fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. How abraham lincoln radio studio the george washington broadcast center you armstrong and getty you're listening to the armstrong and getty show hundreds of cubans who took partner street protests across the caribbean nation waving the flags chanting freedom channing. I am not afraid well. They're in jail now and nobody knows where they are. Their families can't speak to them. There are no charges in most cases. Excuse me they're just being detained by the police Cuban police have arrested an estimated five hundred demonstrators and activists conditions are nasty families are lining up outside detention centers to figure out if their loved ones are there and to deliver clothing. Toiletries and food. Because there's no guarantee they'll be fed or anything like that. It is a repressive totalitarian socialist regime and it is absolutely ugly. Let's go ahead with this loose alone. How do you pronounce his name. A nipah or something. Like that on cnn. He's one of their goto panelists and clip twenty-five please twenty five. The progressive wing of the democratic party does not want to go hard against cuba against some of the things that The castro regime may have been a part of impart because there are some democrats there some progressive who agree with some of those things. They agree with universal healthcare. They agree with some of the programs that were in place in a more socialist kind of society and Joe biden is trying to push it against that is essentially trying to say you know. We do not want our party to head in that direction because he saw what happened in south florida. Twenty twenty they. The democrats got their butts whipped pr- primarily because there's so many cuban americans who here the promises of socialism say. Oh no no no no because we know where that goes which brings us to the question of socialism and communism and how one leads to the other and whether it has to or not. I a a firm firm firm believer that socialism always leads to totalitarianism. It just has to because if you're going to have everything organized by the government by the bureaucrats the central planners who will manipulate industries in redistribute income. The rest of it there are going to be certain observed people say no. This is unjust. This is wrong. This is immoral. I would rather have liberty and you can't have that or the system doesn't work. You have to beat them into submission submission to bring them this alleged worker's paradise if we have to hang a thousand kulaks. That's the famous lennon letter. That was on earth that some point where they were going around hanging farmers to try to get everybody to go along with socialism. It'll work we might have to murder a whole bunch of people to get it to work right and the fantasy is that you'll find human beings so wise and noble in strong that they will gain that control over everything because again. You can't have a sense. Centrally planned society where you allow dissent or a falls apart but we're going to find human being so wise and benevolent and strong that they can be trusted with that sort of enormous power in this system. They won't take more than their fair. Share right there. There you know who's the richest person in venezuela hugo chavez niece or daughter somebody or vac can't remember his girlfriend anyway oh into Yeah they're not going to funnel the very limited the increasingly limited goods and services to their friends and cronies of course not just. Because it's happened every single time. It's been tried doesn't mean it will happen next time which in turn brings us to orwell who. I'm fascinated by george orwell. I i would like to quit the stinking dead end job and devote the rest of my life to studying george orwell in reading everything you ever wrote because he was a dedicated socialist. I don't know if you knew that. And the point of much of his writing. Jack feel free. To agree disagree or amend the point of much of his writing was showing his so socialist brethren what the hazards were in their system and how they had to avoid them. George orwell just like vince gully and who do you think is the richest person in venezuela the daughter of hugo chops. Hello anyway owen to we need more that major league baseball. Hey man hey. Manson good red meat. Conservatism at ballpark. How about instead of you know. You got a lotta lulls in baseball. That's what makes a great announcer great. You know filling in and said of the by the way we'd like to remind you that. Jim's four gyms four always there for you when you need it for less that in mora condemning socialists. Right and who do you think is the richest person in venezuela but daughter of hello anyway owen to orange. It's going out of play. It's foul ball. Wanted to claims to be socialist. Cheese raised seventy five million dollars in the last three weeks in his father in that to her for instance relatives. And here's pitch and rivero steps off the mound to talk to the manager. You remember lennon's letter in which he talked about hanging a thousand kulaks to make socialism work anyway to remember remember. A baseball team. Needs your manager but an economy doesn't anyway three markets. Here's the i in. This could be a lack of understanding. Hello well hello. Because i haven't quit this dead. End job to study or well. But he seems to me. Have a remarkable blindspot because he's so brilliant. Any foresaw so many things so clearly and was such a keen observer of humankind yet. He still thought central planning could be pulled off very confusing to me. Also but here's a great a great quote for them. And i wonder i wonder if late in his life. He began to despair about it. Anyway said the only thing for which we can combine come together is the underlying ideal of socialism justice and liberty. But it's hardly strong enough to call this ideal underlying it's almost completely forgotten. It's been buried beneath layer after layer of doctrinaire prohibitionist party squabbles. And half back progressivism. Until it's like a diamond hidden under a mountain of deng. The job of socialist is to get it out again justice in liberty. Those are the words that have got to ring like a bugle across the world. I'd love to sit down with george and say how. How can you have liberty and socialism in the same place. Yeah i don't know. And one of the greatest lovers of orwell writer thinker christopher hitchens who wrote a book about orwell wire will matters. It's pretty good book. Christopher hitchens stayed a At least a trotskyist and somewhat of a socialist is entire life even though he's got a chapter in his book in which he went to cuba. I think in the sixties as a young man part of the whole you know. Workers of the world unite went there to see the worker's paradise and he talks about how as soon as he got off the plane they took his passport and he thought wait a second. Why are you taking my passport and quickly realized what an what an awful situation cuba was. And it was not even close to the worker's paradise he was hoping for there is no freedom. There's no freedom of thought. There is no free speech. There is no free writing. There is no nothing yeah palo is some some of these really smart. People continue to believe just implemented properly. It would work. So does that ever gonna happen if you believe in human nature if you've spent your life obsessing over the stuff like we have. This is old hat. But if you haven't it's really quite good metaphor it's referred to as the horse and rider conundrum or point of view of socialism socialists central planners from ao de to barack obama bernie bernard sanders and others like them art sanders of socialism. Why is that clip. So funny is an old time like tone of the guys back. When all announcer sounded like that bernard sanders phil donahue with his giant glasses and art sanders anyway. The point of view is that the horse of socialism is a fine horse. If we've just had the wrong. Riders the lenin marx or lenin and trotsky and stalin wrong writers castro. Wrong writer hugo chavez. Wrong ryan mao. Well every single frigging one of which is wrong writer but if we could manage it right we can handle that sort of power and control it. We'll do it right this time. Just trust us. We'll we'll get rid of of inequity will get rid of income inequality we'll get rid of class classroom low class. Just trust us. Then they run the horse that the ditch and kill a bunch of people every single damn time armstrong and getty armstrong and getty show. So maybe this is a good place to fit this in his anywhere just came across this recently read. Mrs dalloway by virginia woolf. It's one of those books that they make you read in high school or college or something. I don't know if i did or not if i did it. Never made an impact on me at the time but at my current age it did newer time has thing in their book review section where they asked people what are books. You should read before your forty books. You shouldn't read until after your forty. Which i'd never really considered before but it's clearly true. Clearly true that there are there are things that they make you read in college that they have no impact on you. Because you haven't had the life experience you ever had kids. You haven't grown old. You haven't haven't just haven't had the life experience to get into them and then there are other books. I tried reading. Some jack kerouac at my current age. You know a few years ago and it just seemed stupid to me. It's self-indulgent stupid and it was really deep and meaningful to me when i was like twenty nine Just yeah just where you are in life. I guess yeah sure coal. So this is from mrs dalloway. Gotta keep in mind that they're talking about people. Being in their fifties. This was written in one thousand nine hundred twenty five. I think max then being in your fifty s it was more like being in your seventies now so recognize that i mean the whole sixty is the new forty s for real. My mom talks about all the time she said. When i was young somebody sixty was an old folks home. Wow that's just you know. Comet lord combination of health attitudes. You know starting adulthood. You're married and had kids when you're twenty so just a lot of things. Were different so as excuse the ag is in this. Think more like seventy year old. That a fifty-three-year-old. 'cause i often i often. I don't wanna sound cruel. But i often see old people and i think what gets you out of bed in the morning and i. I wonder about that for myself. Like when i'm that age what's going to get me out of bed when i'm seventy five. What do i enjoy. what do i look forward to. I mean d- spend all i. It doesn't seem like it being around my parents or other people. It doesn't seem like you spend all your time thinking. Everything sucks now. Everything that's happened before. And everything sucks in my life. Now people don't do that. But i can't quite understand. Why was you know it's about the people you care about. I guess well this is. I came across this explanation. I think in. Mrs dalloway that i think explains it and and and i hope this is the direction it goes for me and it must go for most people. I'll read this best. I can about one of the characters in the book. A terrible confession it was. He put on his hat again but now at the age of fifty three one scarcely needed people anymore opposite of what gioja said. People scarcely needed people anymore. Life itself every moment of it every drop of it here this instant now in the sun in regent's park was enough to much indeed. A whole lifetime was too short to bring it out now that one it acquired the power the full flavor to extract every ounce of pleasure every shade of meaning which both were so much more solid than they used to be and so much less personal. I've read a watched a couple of long explanations of what that just that paragraph means and you know if you're older maybe you can Chime in on the text line whether or not this has been for you That you reach an age where it happens gradually over time i suppose to where you start to notice the world around you more than you ever did with you taken out of the mix because when younger it's all about us chore and by younger i mean up until age seventy but it's all about us. Everything is how it affects us. How is this good for me bad for me or whatever and what. He's explaining right there is. It's not personal anymore. It's just observing the world. I'm just floating around in the world. I'm no longer. It no longer matters to me because most of my life has been lived. And there's just so much richness to the world here once. I've extracted myself from it. Which is kind of the opposite of what you might think but once you take your own needs and personality in everything out of it and you just observe humans and things and beasts and buildings and traffic and everything like that. That life becomes very rich and very interesting. I find that fascinating. I hope that that's the experience i have. That would explain to me How you can be quite old and still get a lot out of life. That's the first time i've ever seen explained that way anywhere in fiction or nonfiction interesting thought i used to regularly described. This radio shows a trip to the human zoo right. Maybe just watching the human zoo or the regular zoo with animals are just just watching the world be what it is without the the freaking filter that is self which is what dominates us through so much of our lives you know need to be loved liked respected envied. Whatever it is that drives us to buy things and do things and strive for this or that but once that is done according to this anyway Virginia woolf we gotta remember killed herself so maybe it wasn't working so well for her that's just what you get out of the world. I dunno agree or disagree any thoughts on that text line. Four one five nine five k. Ftc gave me something to look forward to four one. I'm sorry go ahead. Four one five two nine five k. Ftc i was just gonna say i was. I'm thinking about the don't need people anymore. What what exactly was that. Line was walking out of a party. And just how and the party was all about the other stuff we were talking about self is about addison. Who knew who and who was wearing. What and who drove. What and all that crap. That dominates so much your life. Yeah and he had reached the age where just none of that crap mattered anymore. You have that. I absolutely get. That's not what i was talking about. I was talking about real connections between human zoo. Care about each other and bring each other joy. I mean at the point. You don't give a damn about making any more money or a career to some extent. Who's in office depending you know on the politics of the time. Yeah that's interesting of course. Good stuff deborah. Cheery say author. Virginia woolf put heavy rocks in their pockets and walked out into a river when she was in her late fifties. So i think it's possible to have wisdom and insight and also crushing depression. Yeah i don't think the two are mutually consumer. Lena did it on purpose though. She just like to carry rocks around in their pockets and she likes to take walks in the ocean never occurred to her not to do both at once. She left a note for her husband. That said. I don't think anybody any marriage has ever been happier than ours. Sorry i'm doing this to you. But i just can't go on anymore and put heavy rocks in our pockets and walk down into a river. Why it's a cheery little story again here. A heck of a thing though isn't it. Yes yes and it's made me sand comes up with that idea. Thanks for making me sad. You don't have to be sad. you're not gonna do it. I know. I don't have to be said i am sad me out of angry. Don't tell me now three angry either. Make me sad again transition using michael transition. I've never heard this one making me. Forget what we're talking about. Which is the point. all right. Tunnel seem from willy wonka that keeps me dread. The back of my neck is sweating. I feel like i'm about to get nice to buy a clown. Sorry what's happening. Mannequins are walking guy. Can't michael much much half asleep somewhere. They're going to be snow gonna what their band. Music was terrifying. Armstrong and getty. Should viagra really cost ninety dollars. No it shouldn't haywar armstrong and getty for rex. Md what a great opportunity. This is rex. M d dot com has fda approved generic viagra. Starting at just two dollars per tablet and delivered discretely to your door. Here's how it works. You just fill out a brief survey and if appropriate you can try a starter pack of generic viagra starter packs of currently available to new customers of wrecks. Md dot com. They've helped over one hundred thousand men get generic viagra from the comfort of their own. And there's no co-pay there no doctor office visits in your shipping is always free. So if you're looking for generic viagra rex. Md has made the process fast easy and very affordable so. Don't wait another minute rex. Md is now offering starter package. Generic viagra for new customers visit rex. Md dot com slash armstrong. Right now to get started. Don't wait another minute that's rex. Md dot com slash armstrong. Once again that website rex md dot com slash armstrong. The kids are going back to school soon. And that means you'll need dinner ideas. Lots of them but with your busy schedule finding the time to plan prep in cook. Nutritious meals for your family can be struggle thankfully. A company called really has a solution. They discovered a restaurant industry secret. That makes it simple to enjoy real food. Reduce waste and support local farms. Real eats delivers chef prepared. Nutritionist approve meals. Made with real ingredients right to your doorstep all for as little as eight dollars and thirty three cents per meal their meals are fully prepared and delivered fresh never frozen so they can be on your table in just six minutes. Choose from a menu that includes steak shrimp chicken salmon and even vegetarian dishes. Try real eats now and save big head to real eats dot com and use code meals eighty to get twenty dollars off each week for four weeks. Plus free shipping. That's r. e. a. l. e. a. t. s. dot com and use code m. e. a. l. s. eight zero for eighty dollars off your first four weeks plus free shipping. Geico knows there are many reasons why you ride from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind. That geico always has your back with twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer service but pamela. Monday had one reason in particular. My skin is extremely averse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling of leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers in the biking community. It's been life changing dargo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percents or more jack armstrong. He's yoga where the armstrong and getty are you tired of gulping down the lying filter of the mainstream media. Yeah we too. We try to tell you the truth every single day gulping. Now lying filth. Wow nobody wants to sound dumb. Our goal is to help you. Not sound dumb will inform you and it'll be fun at the same time you have to choose. Between entertainment and information combine them both with the armstrong and getty show armstrong and getty on demand four episodes available every day via the i heart radio apper wherever you download your podcasts. On jack armstrong and getty years armstrong and getty so california biggest state in the country is about to launch the biggest fruit free school lunch program in the entire country speaking of advocacy journalism. I've search around and come across several versions of the story. They're all super cheerleading. For the idea of more free lunches for more people without anybody tossing in what it costs or aren't parents supposed to feed their kids or anything like that. No is there a legitimate need for the giant government program. Well the the need is And we've been talking about this for years. The the idea that if you have any kids that are hungry. Feel bad or their parents feel bad and so we don't want to stigmatize people so better to give free. Lunch is to all kids that way. Nobody feels stigmatized. Well right and then the phony statistic of food insecurity at any time in the last year. Were you concerned that you might not have enough food. So when classrooms opening california here in a couple of weeks all six point two million public school students have the option to eat school meals for free regardless of the family's income so the doing away with the whole income thing. And i gotta believe that over time more and more people will take advantage of that and just think why am i paying double taxpayer. I'm paying for my kid's lunch and the lunch that they're not eating so i guess i'll just take the free lunch i I don't wanna come off as a jerk here but well i'll just say i would be ashamed if i couldn't afford to feed my kids if i had to ask for government help i'd be embarrassed. I'd be ashamed and embarrassed. And i think it should be. I think that. I have crafted my life in such a way that i can't afford to feed. My kids is really not a good look for me and well for all of human history. The idea that. I have produced a child but i can't care for it that was deeply shaming and it should be and if we eliminate any idea of responsibility or shame around having feeding and taking care of a kid. Well we're duped that'll result in better care for kids. Do you have my utopian. Yeah it's astound. Before you get to the point that you can't afford to feed your kid you gotta decide. I need a new career. I need to live somewhere else. wears a lot cheaper. I need to do a change. All kinds of. I need to stop having an iphone with a two hundred dollar a month service plan. I need to change all kinds of things in my life. Long before i get to the point. That i can't afford to feed my kid and a quick doing drugs. I gotta get on the straight narrow and be a be a man a woman and they always quote people from varies quote people from saint louis abysmal. Mom who was the rent blah blah blah work into. They always quote these people from some of the most expensive places to live the entire world. You can't afford to live there by definition. See gotta move somewhere else. You know why i never. I always thought it'd be cool leaving new york city. You know. I never had a job that would have me to live there. I couldn't afford to live there. So i didn't go if i went and i got there and then i said i couldn't afford to feed my kids. Would somebody do a news story about jack armstrong. Who says the rents are too high with his current income to feed his children live in the most expensive city in america section. The move there. I'd find a place where you can afford to have kids or don't have kids collectivism denies you your individuality. If it imprisons you as it claims to lift you up it really is. The lack of insight amazes me. How people don't think okay. What next what will this change. What will the results of this policy being. Nobody even asks that the idea of a kid being at school hungry is just horrifying to me. I'm not so hard hearted that that doesn't i. It's just terrible. The idea of a little kid being hungry and not having any food is awful. But we can't craft a society where we give everybody everything it doesn't work. It's been tried over and over again. It doesn't work. You eliminate the responsibility to take care of you and your family and people don't rise to the occasion. They lower to the occasion. They sink down to what everything is provided for them and they just become. Nothing's it's happened over and over again a around the world. See cuba right right right. It's well i and i can't believe so once again. Another another step down the road of socialism and you voted for who who was advocating this position you watched. What debate were they. Were discussing this. No these things just happen. Yeah yeah well a lot of. It's that the department of agriculture props up the farmers and biza excessive output. And the rest of it. They gotta do something with the most socialism. Pro part of government is the department of agriculture and they are pro socialism their way. Keep having a secretaries of agriculture. That are just seemed to be flat out socialists. Yeah yeah partly for their own purposes. You know but again. It's not that was voted her disgust or so. He's so. tell me if. I'm right or wrong if i'm just a completely out of line meany Text line four one. Five two nine five k. ftc. And i'd actually like to hear these arguments not just trying to like you know. Do it talk radio thing. Oh who's who who agrees with me. That sort of thing. Tell me that that. Tell me i'm wrong. You can't have a society where you provide. The governor of the state provides the things the very basic things that were supposed to provide in our lives. Yeah let's say we're the state takes over the responsibilities of parents and not only food but also indoctrinates teaches them right from wrong teaches them that they're evil if they're white for instance and now kids then are going to grow up with the idea. No the state feeds you snot responsibility of you when you grow up your apparent. It's not your job to figure out how to feed your kids rush state. Feed your kids and then of course since it is an entitlement you begin to feel entitled to pop out a kid. Say where's the food for my kid. When are you gonna give my kid food unbelievable when i think the rest of us when we're getting ready to decide to have kids start thinking about our financial situation. How am i gonna afford this. Megan afford that. Not who's gonna provide this for me. The hell yeah no texting four one five two nine five. Kfi look forward to some of the texts and we'll continue the discussion. What's discouraging to me. Is that except for the young who haven't heard this argument adults. What we're saying is either so incredibly self evident and so important people already know it. They know what to their or their utterly flabbergasted by that point of view the candy. What are you talking about. Are you in favor of children's starving. Oh my god so california about the launch. The biggest free lunch program in america every student regardless of income is eligible for free food. It always tax payers. Get together and vote on. We're gonna feed each other's kids. How about i keep my money. You keep your money and we give our kids food. They like to eat because so many of these texts are about the age. Old problem of the kids hate the food at school and it just gets thrown in the trash. So nobody's getting anything really anyway. I'll read through some of the texts here and we got quite a few on a launching this giant school lunch program which i'm against. I think the government taking away the responsibility feeding my own child really my number one responsibility. I've gotten my life. At the point i became a parent is feeding my own kid. And you're gonna take away my number one responsibility. Which is you think. that's a good thing. I don't think that's probably a good thing anyway. My kids school started all free lunch this year. My voice tell me that most of the kids throughout most of their launch anyway due to the healthy changes that they made about two years ago so with all the variety of a super health things that they do. It doesn't taste good so the kids don't like it so it ends up in the trash as i remember when When michelle obama made everything extra healthy and they had such enormous amounts of throwaway that they had to rescind the orders. Lots of people saying that though as a teacher the food that is wasted heartbreaking and immoral Talk to a local school food distribution program worker. He said there's so much fraud and double dipping in this program. I'll bet i'll bet there is. Can we ask you see. Your parents have a ton of expensive tattoos before they get a free food handout. Reading of text is not something other something. Other i'm just reading text say re tweets or not endorsements i can show you how to feed your own kid on the cheap plan ahead and buy in bulk with a friend or to the dollar store solds. Loaves breads for dollar peanut butter and jellies cheap. And it's what the kids want to eat anyway. They won't throw that away another one. My first grader has to take a free meal every day. They throw it away. Every day. i work in nevada. All students are offered free breakfast and a free lunch. Yeah what really bothers me is so much of. The food is thrown in the trash at the very least to give it to the homeless. But no it's against the law to give at the homeless so we throw it in the trash got wrote that you gotta love that a government program to feed the kids and if the kids don't wanna eat it you're against the law to give it to the homeless because we got a separate payer paid program to give meals to the homeless over in this building so you throw that food away and spend more taxpayer money by giving different food over there freaking unbelievable well the waste part of it is is awful and it it just goes to show you how these programs work there's a tremendous amount of expensive very little Very little effect but what bothers me more is the more i know existential change. It causes in people i. It's not my responsibility to feed my child to care for my child to look after my child. That's the government's and once once you agree and this this is fundamental folks once. You agree that that child isn't your child. It's the government's child. Well you're not gonna like where it goes from. There are plenty of people on the left. Who want that my talk more than once about my marxist professor in college who said the whole nuclear family the parents raising the children thing is. It's a symbol. It's a system of oppression. The state should be raising children once again. Reading text is not endorsement now. Back to the text line are poor kids starving. Just walk the beach near any l a low income area. Most of the kids are not hungry. The fat many are obese as our mom and dad right do have an epidemic of childhood obesity particularly among the poorest. Let's kinda interesting I agree with you. It's ridiculous talk for free lunch to some and not to others. We have them come to school. We need to feed them breakfast. Dinner is above the call but lunch. I'm fine with it okay. There's one who was a on board with the free lunches taking away your responsibility to feed your own children. Put it in the hands of the government. I think you are completely crazy. Only example of successful civilizations were the state provided the food for people You know. I suppose you could make argument that just lunches part of the school day. So it's just the the you don't have to bothers part of what your tax money goes to change in society. And i guess our parents were just dumb suckers thinking they had to provide a lunch force every single day the armstrong and getty show also so a quick note. Here's this california school district specifically hayward unified. It's going to spend forty million dollars on mandatory critical race theory. Eighth classes for students. Teachers will be trained by consultants who make fifteen hundred dollars an hour and a teen hundred dollars over. It is such a scam. You know when we've got a couple of emails from people saying guys critical race theory actually valid. It's hot and law school. It shows how it studies how historically racism becomes codified and effective now. That's perfectly reasonable. Pursuit for legal scholars. To look into the problem is my friends that that term critical race theory has become applied to a philosophy e causing away to organize society. It's morphed into something completely different. You don't know what you're talking about on the street. it's become something completely different o a by the way in the various teachers. You're just say we're not teaching critical rates theory. We just wanna teach honest history. Well hayward came out with a statement and said yeah. The forty million dollars bub-bubba. The new ethnic studies curriculum will be informed by include critical race theory. So there you have it. So i came across this piece. In the wall street journal written by one lance morrow the hedgehogs critical tomorrow lance morrow there's as lance morrow the political philosopher isaiah berlin turned obscure fragment by the ancient greek poets of sarka locus. The fox knows many things but the hedgehog knows one thing. So i brought this to the program couple of months ago and we pondered over that for quite some time trying to figure out what i am now. I could shake my life. Having realized that well he turned it into an intellectuals cocktail party game famous essay published as a book in nineteen fifty-three berlin suggested that the world is divided between hedgehogs. And fox's those who believe in one big thing one all sufficient super explanation and those who are content with more modest and sometimes even incoherent idea of how history unfolds karl marx was. The supreme hedgehog for instance. Everything for him was about the conflict of economic classes. Franklin roosevelt for instance was a restlessly. Improvising fox then moral rights. The world's hedgehog population tends to expand in times of stress and change lately it has exploded in the. Us hedge hegg. Hedgehogs are thick on the ground. All of them advancing one big thing another each peering through the lens of particular obsession. I would argue. There's been a fair amount of hedgehog around covert nineteen your health officials. They act as if children's emotional educational health don't exist. Our need for socializing doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is cove nineteen at any rate. He goes on right at the moment. The biggest one big thing is race a key it seems to all of america to the innermost meanings of the country and its history isn't really true racist one of many big things in america. It's hardly the most important americans need de sanctify the subject of race to meet its claims which have grown absolutist and as it worth theological in their thoroughness and their dogmatism. Critical race theory is spread across the us like a virus coming to infect primary schools high schools and foundations argues big corporations the military local state and federal government bureaucracies. It's everywhere in the west wing. President biden spent almost forty years following the ways of amiable political fox in the senate exchanging pleasantries and now and then doing legislative business with confederate. Maas bax like strom thurman and james lind has in his old age signed on with the mono maniacs of the left mono maniac. That's a good one. That is a really good one. The hedgehogs trajectory may begin on the side of an underlying deniable. An important truth this is tier motte and bailey. Arguments saying jack. It begins an undeniable and important truth the truth that slavery was a great wickedness in america as it was elsewhere in the world and still is and that race. Prejudice has been chronic. American dilemma and immoral blight that has damaged and scarred the lives of millions of black american citizens over generations. One hundred percent true well he writes all true a truth to be acknowledged and addressed but hedgehogs. Who deal in absolutes are liable to get carried away. Their truth changes shape coalesce into a political movement and gets a taste of power and begins to impose itself programmatic. -ly its ambition swell. It grows cyanic in abrasive. Civic idiocies like defunding the police and beholds the astounding impunity in which it may runamuck in the streets and burn police cars and shopping malls as it did last summer and the ease with which it may take over city council's and mayor's offices and turn so many of the countries normal arrangements upside down. Okay so now. The hedgehog gets a whiff of power and because it's a mono maniac we have reasonably that. He's a maniac anyway. And then it goes into the mccarthy era era off the scene communist center. Every bed single-minded ideology of critical race theory sees racism and every white face a racism. Systemic pervasive inescapable damning all white people are racists the doctrine devolves to the crudest form white. What might be called racial calvinism. Americans are predestined saved or damned. Depending on the color of their skin this doctrine merely reverses the theory of white supremacy which damned black people and consign them to oppressive segregation because of their skin. here's where he really brings it home so critical race theory. Protesting the old injustice embraces. Its lie this is not progress but revenge. The motive is not justice but payback on understandable if balkan im- impulse beware a hedgehog claiming the immunities of an innocent victim. Beware in victimhood. Is one big thing. The victim wants revenge. Who's more justified in committing any crime or any injustice than a blameless victim acting in historic retaliation virtue feeling vengeful and tasting power grows manic dogmatic dangerous critical race. Theory ends by fostering. The evil professes to combat racism and the hatred. That comes with it asked good stuff mine. Anos lot of pretty words. So tom brady just made a funny at the white house will play that for you when we come back. The suppose either owner super bowl. Champion buccaneers. you're visiting as championship teams regularly. Do as the secretary of winning. I'm sorry as as championship teams regularly do if it's a democrat in the white house. If it's a republican in the white house they take a strong stand against it. And don't show up. It's because conservatives think liberals are misguided and liberals think conservatives are evil armstrong and getty. Have you ever wondered what the media and big tech is hiding from you massive stories that actually affect you in your life that they don't want you to see because they make the left and the biden administration look bad when there's a podcast dedicated to exposing all of that each and every day so download the fastest growing podcast and the conservative movement. The ben ferguson. Show podcast right now. That's right you can listen to ben ferguson. Show podcast on iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast. Download it right now. I am so excited to launch. My first podcasts luna talks with ana paulina on the gingrich three sixty network. The let me warn you. This is a podcast for the fate apart or easily offended. This is a podcast for those who want to learn to engage to be inspired and perhaps most importantly for those who still believe the audacious idea known as the american dream. Iheartradio's number one for podcast. But don't take our word for it. Listen to luna talks with every friday on iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts new podcast rush limbaugh the man behind the golden. Eib microphone the incredible story of the life and times of a man who changed the way we think and the way we talk from his first job to his final podcast through testimonials from his peers. His protege his family fans and those who worked closely with and of course rush himself in his own words. This is the remarkable life story of a man who changed america from a perspective. Never heard before now on iheartradio or wherever you. Listen to your favorite podcasts.

getty armstrong geico Mrs dalloway george orwell cuba venezuela sanders jack armstrong shakespeare geico george washington broadcast ce Cuban police christopher hitchens hugo chavez baseball vince gully lennon
Episode 4 : Fiona Melrose and Johannesburg

The Wonderful Words Podcast

55:43 min | 1 year ago

Episode 4 : Fiona Melrose and Johannesburg

"Hello, and welcome. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Please let us know what you think by following an connecting with us on social media accounts on. INSTAGRAM. facebook twitter to talk Vero and Tumbler and don't forget to shit the show with your friends family as well as Neva positive rating on your podcast provider as it helps other people find the show. My Name's was seemingly have in this wonderful words podcast. As show, we get to have conversations. About. Life books they're riding in the wonderful world literature itself. In this episode, I chat to rose author of two books who spends alive living between two countries the United Kingdom and South Africa Fiona debut novel. Midwinter which takes place in Suffolk. Was One of the very few debut novels long listed for the Bays Women's price of fiction in two thousand seventeen while his second novel, John His bug, which is a retelling of Virginia. Woolf's classic Mrs Dalloway is set in South Africa and take space on the day that Nelson Mandela's death was announced. This folk John is bug that I'll vision is largely about please do enjoy. A. It had been bad night nervous dogs thunder rain terrible hothead drenched the city. September's flattened cardboard boxes were wet through from under his plastic sheet this the corrugated boxes no longest had the sort of spring. He associated with a dry night and good sleep. He had been awake for awhile but had only just begun to register that he was back in the world. September felt as if his mind had begun to dispatch messages back to his body from a further mountainous geography messages when made. Some days, he would leave his garden walk to his island incentivize asking loose change from mooning mattress. And would emerge from car window to deposit effet five ran coin into his Enamel Cup. He would shuffle Olonga. Waiting traffic blinking blinking to turn and only much further down the line. Would he begin to register the sound plunk of the coin hitting the bottom of the? Cup. Watch it happened in between he could not say. Such was the nature of his mind. These long hot days and today would be no different and all the days that followed one and another, and then another. He began to Russell himself tonight, but he had to do justice would not wait. Thank you so much for the wonderful reading. Today. Would seem. That's great. That's pretty okay. So I think we'd start off with asking you bhadra writing process and the technical aspects of writing itself, and then we move onto the novel itself. Know that sounds super so Ice. Storm previously interview. I, we connect on social media, but I've been preparing. So I've been watching obviously not. A clip he but I mean. Lake. Observe. Observant not creepy. Like there's always like when it comes to your writing you very prodigious. You very committed I. Mean you've finished the draft of this booking four weeks understand. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wanted to ask you about that. How did you get from because I know a lot of office struggle. But. Yeah. It's it's amazing. So what seem what would says I don't recommend it. I think I think it's fascinating. At the moment you get your, I draw finish the. Be that the way basic I do ride fast. So typically what happens is the first draft is very quick, very intuitive plan asshole. So, there's no full with thoughts into what I'm doing but then it takes me probably another eighteen months to unravel what I've written and bring it up to standards. So in a way, the first draft is a kind of downloading of information. And it's hugely intuitive in based on instinct, and then as I'm writing, what I do is I keep a process journal alongside the become rising and what I write that concurrently to the novel. I think what that does is it gives me a space to work things out as I'm writing so that I can win actually writing the draft right? Right very quickly but I think people differently you know this certainly, I would never say that this is the right way to. Have, I think it's I think it's I. Love the way that collectively from what you're saying it's much sense ultra because I guess there are come from a science background so they makes more sense to me to clan. Yes. I'm surprised you said that you let the novelist of guys. You don't really go in to the novel or. Was it did you have an idea exactly what how would happen? Just like whatever happens happens I whatever happens happens I tend to start with the fifth sentence and once I've got first sentence in that first sentence is held the entire novel. Tone the texture, the voice. The DNA his science background feet sentence holds the DNA for the rest of the novel me so once. Sentence has dropped into my head and it will drop into my head often. While you shopping or something and voice sounds in my head, which is not mind voice. Into my second. Guess. Does also, the novel contains many different perspectives and it's a monologue almost but what I loved and obviously going into the novel now but you change perspectives and so I was wondering and you not it's different from other books because you actually in the mind. That's what I felt like I. Felt I was I will. The. Compliment and so when I. Saw, I don't explain this late property but. Every sentence structure I felt like I was in their mind so I wasn't judging dim based on. You know what? Do Judge People on judging them on from that perspective this holiday season that's an incredible achievement as well. So is that? In terms of midway as well was how you naturally just right and how you get to that perspective so that two answers to that the fist is a technical one and the second is a one of humanity and I'll start with technical when I teach creative writing and I always try to teach this to students. The technical aspect is at the point of view you choose is important and it conforms the whole form of the novel. And I think for Johannesburg because I wanted to take on the structure in the foam. was his democratic as possible I wanted to use as many voices as possible. Obviously. This is a misleading titled is Johannesburg it's not Johannesburg. It's a a white neighborhood in Johannesburg and the people that inhabited. It's never going to be all of us but in order to. Make Democratic as possible was important to have a polyphonic. Structure of multiple voices. That's a technical point of on point of view. The Second Point which is one of humanity. Second Point. The second point. Which is one of humanity? Is. Is One of empathy and one of generosity and love towards each and every one of your characters even if their mind will pot. And I think that's a it's a novel mystic point, but it's also a point of citizenship in a way. You mentioned in previous interviews that I mean you first novel was set in Suffolk yes and you living there I was and now the selflessness Africa back on scam. Lazy. The window I think. I'll just right out the window and. I wouldn't have skype that. Writer. Like. You spoke about how don't it was to ride as a white? Yes sir. Absolutely and it's an something I still grapple with a little bit. I didn't want to rise South African novel I think it would have rather than any novel other than South, Africa novels I think it's a white. South. African. You have to Tread Kathleen you have to you have to say, does this need to exist is this does it need to be told by me? And, you have to is that something that I have to say about this particular moment incident toll event that is is meaningful and useful and worthwhile. Or is it a vanity project? and. Also. Mandela's death is is used in the noble and I put that in and then I took it out put it in. And I think you have to be constantly aware of the responsibility you hold especially when writing into other cultures into other genders into other sexualities into everything you have to be. Very aware that there's an incredible responsibility in every to rise doesn't mean haven't come up. Let's it's of course. So I have mind blind spots, people people do. And if somebody says I feel there's a blind spot here you have to acknowledge. Both or you may choose to disagree, but you have to really think that's ruined beyond us. Yeah I I caught that up or just say, no, I did our K. but I could have done but you know you need to. Be. Precious about it you need to know that they is is. Responsibilities events. Yeah. Yeah. I. I admire that about you because I've noticed in particular with past providers writers and I think you'll be generals that we gender comes to. Automatically respond via the EGO assumed that Oh. Yes. You know and I feel like we should allow that room for like maybe I. Absolutely I think you have to wants to book out in the world you have to be prepared for that since it's public property has and readers will every time I read that they are rewriting their reading this? Virginia Woolf. Yes. She is Richard. SNELL talkable return. Absolutely. So this book is based on Virginia Woolf's novel Mrs Dalloway which likes Johannesburg is set on one day in a city and follows various characters around the city on net day I chose. Mrs Dalloway in the sense because I felt the. London off world will one. And Hannah. Spoke often had a lot in common which you wouldn't initially imagine. But they both seem to be cities grappling. With an untreated grief. There's a political psychological rupture to the psyche of the nation the psyche of the city that some has never really knowledged and life is expected to continue as if nothing happened and yet everywhere in Virginia. Woolf's characters. Septimus and in my character September. There were these individuals who carry visible physical and emotional scars from. The wool from Pantera from. From their lives and so that was the immediate obvious connection and also she's just a writer that has been so much to me personally so so that there were so many reasons to use that as a scaffold to write my. Will you not. Daunted. It is obviously like with classical literature the moment. When you say that Yoga is based on one. Is. A recreation of people automatically go to say like Oh let's. Not like the original explicit. Will you don't terrified to was terrified? And it did hold me up a few times to begin with because you do feel very arrogant and think, oh, just rewrite Mrs Dalloway I mean who do antici really that I can do this. So I was don't but then I I at an event in Johannesburg in Melville is Asta question of the writer. Garth Greenwell. Who's I really admire as a teacher of writing and deserve a writer and he said to me the anxiety of influence is. A paternalistic patriarchal construct in the sense that. We set overs before US often men of course, in this case, Virginia will not a man set them up to be the most is of. Every literature. Yeah. They hold the Canon and then all of us must now pit ourselves against them as a young the young guns against the old masters and he said. That's not necessary. We we've moved beyond that. and rather consider yourself is adding to lineage in paying homage end being in conversation in a much more generous and open win. That was hugely useful to me to hear that from him and I'm eternally grateful for me. I've written Stella Jazz I. Think I think it might be achieved that I really enjoy. Like I said, I think out of this competition, there's the novel is multi layered. I would say deceptive because of asleep reads like scheme Ovid you probably may not. Things but. I think if you. Aware. Socially aware. There's so much more that you can clean image like I'm looking forward to see the duality of the questions and stuff like that. So you mentioned September. And September is attached to an incident that happened outside Africa Mariana could you speak to that show? So Americana and I think maybe dismiss can hear a helicopter going overhead which feature largely in Marikana the novel just so. It's all turned up so So that was the little sound sound bite of of the novel. Marikana was an incident in South Africa. In post-apartheid South Africa where schools of purchasing minus was shot in a massacre by police using live rounds was a huge rupture it was. The first incident in pest South Africa West is. With suppressed with such. Brutality by a staged aparatus I think it was shocking that we will those days at gun. and I certainly registered with incredible Sarah and it stuck with me on that happened in the year preceding, preceding my writing this book. So it was very much in my mind was. To featured. It's it was one of the things. One of the things that right? I think need to be looked to and when I teach writing I I, certainly mentioned this to my students and something Richard. Foldaway says is knowing you being worked on. no-win something sticks with you know when you hear stands on end no when. The wool material of your life takes on a kind of elevated status and that's that's the material you need to be working with instantly Marikana was something I couldn't shake. September. I wonder how you got into the mindset how did you like? How did you tap into that? So September for me so. I think what people always say with autism All carriages aspects of themselves. I think very much of Jenin September as the same person. They all the flip side to each other in the sense that she is impossible without him and he is impossible without her in terms of in terms of structure and. In terms of the form of the novel, but also I think hundred on A. Conscious level but in a mentor conscious level, the Dow two aspects of the same person and September I think very much embodies a lot of me. and. He holds a lot of my. Three in the morning stuff you know I think the things that will visit us would call deep at three in the morning search. So I actually found him very easy to write in some senses. But again I was a little anxious about the responsibility of rising him and holding and holding his story as a white South African. Writing, that story I did I did have. Yeah, I had a lot of reservations in south the way to that responsibility as well. Outside the characters off featured in the novel in September is the protagonists by the way who is obviously no march to Virginia Woolf in some aspects. She's Virginia Woolf and Mrs Dalloway Win One. She's a kind of a yes. Yes. But outside of the characters off of September, I felt like they were invisible characters in the book as capitalism itself in September. Like, hit the relationship to capitalism is centered around the character capitalism centered on the fact that. He's the homeless person and he's largely homeless people largely invisible in society we make them invisible as well. Also, capitalism makes them visible and also capitalism shapes our relationship tunes well, in the sense that win Ginny doing to activate on the novel they need action that they do have is it sort of capitalistic tinged and then wanted to? Pop speak about that show. So I think certainly, there is an awkward interaction between them which readers will will get to. It's not a spoiler moment but. She's not quite job when she finally meets September she's she has no way of speaking to him so she gives him money to thank him for something. He's done something quite important. and. I think also. It's how we degrade relationships in a way. It's always comes down to money. It's what am I gonNa get and what am I GONNA Pay. To make this problem go away. I don't have to deal with homelessness because I can throw money at the problem. Make it go away never have to look at the structure I never have to deal with what's underneath. And I think, it also ends up being. Money becomes an emotional currency so that that becomes the only way that we can mediate personal relationships relationships among citizens. Mess. Quite damaging to civil society as a as a whole. I read a book by Michael. Ignatiev. The political thing can he wrote a book about twenty five years ago which really stayed with me? Cold the stranger. The Gatien he speaks about what is our obligation to the stranger at the gate? Which is obligated to homeless people. What does obligation to people at our borders who are desperate? And wanting to come, and this is something which is not just applied to South Africa and to Johannesburg it's applied globally especially with the migrant crisis and increased homelessness from environmental. Displacement woes and so forth. So I think these questions have lead people will start to grapple with more intensely. That's the thing that's the magic I think about Janice bugs it. Is No direct plot isn't ending dramatic happening, but it makes you question. Makes you question these human relationships and the wavy to. Our relationship with two systems itself another really another character that features in the book that's invisible but is the president lurking in and out like capitalism is racism. And wanted to speak to that the characterised with the book itself. Choice. Oh. Yeah and it's I mean that's that's broad huge thing to take on and. I think the challenge for the writer is to write about racism without saying, hello, his book I'm writing about racism. I think that's the the struggle and yet I think it's Ganic to old relationships in. South Africa's Somehow I. Think I think if you're watching US South Africa novel you on taking that on and you need to be aware of no shocking it. Stuck was one things I was raised pies about book because I have a attempted to reload whites. African. Writers and they have taken the Rainbow Nation route preferred to let's do away with race completely and you can't can't. It's. It's a dereliction of juicy That's the elephant in the room. And that's not to say by the way that I've managed it and then I've pulled it off and then I've I've I've done it but you can't not go this. Is that is just what's true and as you may cook it up, but you can't not go there as a writer is obligation to. To go there you you can't not and you contract little fluffy stories session neighborhoods. And ignore the fact that there are racial tensions and assume that they aren't I think it's I think it's it's Lazy I think lazy writing. But doesn't that come to a speed to? The fact that people say love to say as a species people the majority of us. I'm jumping on saying that they love to use that whole adopted. The dilute I don't see color. Well I think. That is a something people say agency race sense across at NC gender would have. I think what needs to be acknowledged is that that itself is a position of privilege. Aren't you lucky? You don't have to deal with race on a daily basis on she like you have to seek costs on she nakae and I understand that I said that for my position of privilege I understand. That's that's my luck I'm in that position, but I do think you have to least interrogated you have to at least ask the question and. If you choose to do nothing about that. That's fine. But know that this consequence for ignoring this. You mentioned you of this year why you have white privilege but we all have systems approach that we have attachments to before within like I am going to be white but I have made even though I'm a gay man I have Milkovich provision over civil. So I I feel like a lot of time we as a species don't don't come to the point that you're not many people don't come to the you and I have with US in the. Front. You know so. That's one of the things I loved about the book that it made me question more of my relationship. was at an intention, I wanted to ask the questions I knew I didn't have the onces and I think is a novelist you have to be comfortable with being in the position of not offering the answers and I think that also allows readers to insert themselves into the questioning and hopefully affect some kind of change that way. On the topic I guess of. Visibility. Character. US. Most US domestic employees. And again, the again, it's a capitalistic I guess caps case attention how we treat people what domestic employees and I wanted to speak she as well notes that as well as the northern hemisphere walks in our parts and I want to. Speak to Missy I, find it quite an interesting character night i. think if I met. Somewhere, I might not necessarily like she does have a bit of brickell edge, which is also what makes it interesting and fascinating some MRIs. Very interesting in that. She's She is the foiled gin. So Jin is allowed to be feminist because she has privileged. There is this being a white feminist is again a position of privilege saying well, we'll shall I go and have an artist studio, knock it married and and explore my creativity. Which is, which is the sort of privilege I've enjoyed. Oh, I'm going to. I'm going to write novels in this. What does that mean? What does feminism was wanting to interrogate feminism? Mrs. Mrs Dalloway was Virginia Will. Feminist Nobles and so wanted to school wave with this woman be now where is feminism now and what does it even mean? If you are in domestic employment women's wick is constantly undervalued, and that's why we can all have domestic because women will be paid less. And so in Messi I wanted to offer portrait of a woman who wanted. Who wants as much? And desires as much as GIN. And yet what her options really. So visuals, famous essay a room of one's own John says I want to room she has a studio of her. So. Then mess he says I want to remove my own. But what she asked for a tiny little kitchen with middle hall, which she can make the goal. Cakes and biscuits and sell them for extra money. So they is that desire but I think immediately the extent in the horizon of women's desires a- going to be kept by what is financially possible to do with. To, do with that sort of thing, and so miss he to me is an incredibly strong character she is. She is. Yeah. I really I I feel like she's got a bit of an edge to her and she's she's quite funny quite snide. And she's incredibly powerful woman, but she is constrained. By her financial situation and feminism is meaningless in the absence of access to finance and education in order these things. Let's move onto need. She's I. I was terrified you should be. I was. Terrified of because. For me, she represented the Paulo of parenting. The position of being a parent. She's so terrifying like in the moments gymnast into act almost like. On my it's like she's walking on eggshells. Yeah she is. Could you speak to that? Yes. So so need is another another version of womanhood, which is the the brittle mother who is herself entrenched in patriarchal norms so she subscribes to them. She says you should be good daughter in and look pretty and get married and do all of these things and considers considered her daughter's something Jin something of a disappointment in that she hasn't fulfilled these ideals. Never mind she herself has broken with convention by. The medical profession window in all stood its Interests Center I. Hope I have infused her terrifying with each some humanity with the passing of her years and the reckoning. And the fact. The book is set on the day Nelson. Mandela dies in this something about those big. Death anniversaries the kind of force you to think, oh. Am I where am I in my life and where's the country in its life and it forces a kind of inward-looking and I do think nieve has a sense of time running out and it is her eightieth birthday bash at the same time she is a very strong person she is an. When we were talking about the book offended and like. It. Reminded us as an agent on I'm not sure about it within the white. Within the community, the power to the Indian parents have over there is tantamount of also I felt that Tara, whenever Jen and Jack to new and so. It made me question. You know what it is to be a parent Tia. The game doesn't book just ask so many questions. What does it mean to be a parent and also her relationship her relationship to loud. Relationships with regards, to Gina the, Judo. Make me question. So many other things. Like being the dog, he has drooping the dog and. If any question Okay. Okay. This is GonNa be long but I'm hoping that makes sense right out there with. It's OK dogs are very. In pop culture genuine citing the very last. Buses all kinds of pets. Yes, and of June is dog names wise it. News. Love Juneau's very on condition. Yeah. And love for Jin. Some levels is conditions completely conditional because yeah June is not fulfilling the Balk? Yes. New have said often and it made me question. So many things about. Again a parenting, but also to beloved dogs more than other types it because the loved the office subservient in that they are just willing to. Give you the control of them. And is that that's Interesting. That's interesting Like I we. The love is love conditional only to how much we can jolie. Yes. That's interesting. That is interesting so I always think. For Me Juno represents. The unencumbered soul. So, the dog is innocent unencumbered soul who can just finish out the gate and trump on the road and think, well, this is great. An adventure. And there is a sense And I'm I'm a dog and I love my dogs. We mediates the emotions we cannot confront in life through the animal. So, if you think, we'll icon bed to love anyone in life because that would be too painful. Then media that's remind dogs enough my dogs and they become a buffer. And they become a proxy approx see lows in a way and need will not be disappointed by her dogs loose whereas her children will never fail to disappoint her and her life and her husband and her job. And whatever. So it becomes a way of mediating. and. And I think you're right kind of controlling not so much controlling the dog is not so much by concerning I don't think it's more about controlling emotion and controlling. Life and its and its proximity. It's a I mean the dog will obviously bring hot if the dog dies before it's. The dog itself exactly. Exactly. It's like. Well, that's life has not because the dog was mean. So I think it. I've written all sorts of things about the role of dogs. Literature is it's very interesting. Very interesting. I also speakers on I tell people I. Have a Cat Dillingham. Do the thing and then I was sitting thinking this morning in fact. But? Doll newsroom Question like. People say, Oh, cats are very independent. They do their own thing and dogs at more loyal thought. Okay you now. But what what, what is that? What is that? What does that say that leads me to another question I have cloud initiatives and that leads to pita. Yeah Oh. Try to is. This him. But I'm not gonNA tell three this it is about Peter but I would say what he meet me question again is books clip questions in big question. A huge shaven an. Intersection feminists but. Skeptical of men largely but it made me question the ability of the capability of men I mean we as as a society species crooned social condition patriarchal would certainly be questioned like Ken men love. in a sense where they don't own possess another human because in the book. He seems to have this inmate carnal desire to own controlled process. Yes such a we and he's misery stems from the fact that you've views trophies but. She does. She doesn't need him test that affects md she doesn't need him and he can't recover from that. Yes he somehow. Off to their first encounters is still. Baffled and and angry he holds a lot of anger. Yes. To Woods her because she doesn't need him. And it's not personal to him, which is also something I. Think he as a character explode that he seemed to take it as a personal affront that he wasn't needed whereas in fact, it was the CI needed who work. which is it's not a zero. and. I can't generalize icon say that special that was certainly something a wanted to look at in terms of if you are a feminist if you are women who chooses. To privilege. Work over relationships. You have to privilege workover relationships. I think men more easily able to say what I'll have both. Yes they can have both. Women often have to come down on either side and he is he he takes us as a personal affront that she would like she. She says, I'm going to self actualize. My work is everything to me and he years later nursing bishop wound. and. Is Unable to recover from it which and there's a kind of ridiculousness Innis on the one hand and on the other hand. Does something quite I would say terrifying that is something something quite disturbing about that as yeah. Thing is like I was actually jumped to load of colleagues of mine about this Ligne, yet Alex and so forth. And a lot of the miracle. Yes. This is how we all this. Is How we behave and I suspect to England with pita he was so difficult. Noise so much but I just thought he's a tricky one. Question like. You know men listening to this I want you to deteriorate how you love how you see love and. Is. Love Having Possession of someone is. You know allowing it to be free it. Yeah. I. Mean. There is that expression that's used for in terms of race as well and I would apply to gender is compliance conditional acceptance yes. Yes and I think that's he falls down very heavy on that spectrum of. He loves GIN and he will do anything for her. But she needs to comply with the role he has described her. Will I I mean I I would say no but. It's a broad church, his love. and. I think that's I. think that's that was what I was looking at. A good if you're. You're. You're you're St Louis C.. I. Appreciate this. To the main Kachin of shorts or Virginia. Yes or Genie I. Kept in my head when I capture referring I kept going to genius. Jason. Comfortable I, should that with me? she's suspect comeback to sit down for go. And she's conflicted with all these issues that may be easier I guess in New York to avoid. And I began to question the me what made question is. In many ways Jin, conventional, all the other white characters. She's very socially aware. which is very socially aware in terms of. The politics But at the same time being present in atmosphere she finds herself going good. I. Don't want to confront this. Don't want to be a part of this I just when you're on the way and so for me again, Ibn asking myself like In many racist is to to response fest, obviously, the racial response is this. Also, what how why people's sees Africa insensitive that you don't want to confront the issues that legacy date and capitalism and the meals Ramsey is. That just the ease responses just run away from the situation. And in this other aspects, the human outside of. That response to escape. Rather, than to I'm going to try my best to understand what's going on see how I can effect change within my spaces thing. To have you. Know I'm just trying to unpack it. I think a lot of I. Think. So one of the issues is that is very easy to intellectualize and it's very easy to say, Oh, I'm liberal nine this to not in whatever, of course, everyone must have what they want to but at the same time. The lived experiences often different. And the other side of it is I think the Sudden ideals don't always it's it's the gap between the ideal and the reality I think that's what it is. It's also this idea of Amnesia. Which? The concept of the Rainbow Nation has somehow enabled. It is also sort of allowed to this collective Amnesia to take place and perhaps that was necessary for time I. I can't say I mean it's very easy to save with hindsight but. What happens with that is the unspoken stuff has to go somewhere. So where does it go? which is which is will the unspoken grief coach who which just the unspoken guilt Goto, unspoken Goto, and the truth is at bubbles under the surface of society ended will come out. That is just what Detroit has to go. Some way energy doesn't disappear it has to find an expression. So I think. It's a lot of that I do think it's to do with and this is. So this is Maya admission in terms of when I came back to nip here from. Is that I was I was often terrified. There was so many destitute people you stop at a traffic light and this seven or eight people around your car and everyone needs something tap tap tap on the window and I'm thinking who needs what what do I do? How do I engage? It's absolutely overwhelming and I think what happens over time and that's why I wrote the book. So quickly as you become numb to it so sometimes, it is a willful exclusion, but sometimes I think it's almost protective mechanism ms not just the white South Africans for everyone. Special. Johannesburg has a kind of inch to it. That becomes overwhelming at some point and I think. If you were to absorb every single blow of every destitute person. It's too much newland of being ineffective. does sound like an excuse I'm trying to think is, is that justice cheap excuse? I'll have to think about that but. You have to choose level of engagement that becomes the is useful in not overwhelming productive. Yeah and I think coming back to that think it's because obviously again, identity politics. Africa ignore it. and. It's just that we occupy his position and I know many people may not like to see. The Be Limited and we have to face up to. These things whether we like to. When I was thinking about we'll go back to Peter. He's relationship to love to woman general I just kept going back to male culture. Yeah as particularly after go. Check, hyper masculine environment. View of very uncomfortable. Also speak sue like all the privileges that. You know and people who belong to this privileges I. Guess He's why asked about Jin tons of approximately to whiteness and doubled year to escape is that I see also walk out the kinds of privileges in me too movement Danda. Yeah, my neck's new absolutely in that men would rather escape. And deal with that. And in terms of straight privilege buses of. Over homosexual. People rather escape. Yes. Knock deal with it and he comes back to that. That's the thing that. Aspect escapism terms of waving fall within the agency politics melted the human aspect of Redrado would not do the work. Yes. Of course it's Extensive therapy as well. You have to do the work you have to have the positions and especially in of Africa but they've exactly that it's a nation was on the couch. And that was a little bit the Truth and Reconciliation Commission it was the nation on the couch. It attempted. It's yeah. It's wanted to be the talking cure. But it was that wasn't even the introductory session. So I, think there is in terms of. Putting the nation on the couch. This has been. An astonishing silence. Has and I think that's What I wanted to look at and say what? What is the consequence for for a nation but looking at the city and saying that they're they're broken people here. There are broken people. And what the answer is to that actually. I. Be. Talking around you because I don't think I need to mess thinking Babson knicks in another caps in another. Shocking about. I don't talk about now but later. I came across not the interviews that you ordered begun work on Navas three apple yes. Can you tell us Some novel three I'm trying to finish. Now I'm kind of towards the end of nobles trees taken a very long time. It's been a very difficult novels technically. and it is a return to suffolk and a return to Virginia Woolf Lee and some other people thrown in there who rediscovered recognize. It's It's a story about women. different because magma was a muscular exactly a very masking store. Yes. It's the story about women. And again looking at I guess I guess I I've become agenda writer and I didn't sit up to be agenda but I am that is what's true but it's like you said Yukon. Your territories. Midwinter was very much about masculinity. This is about women. And then my full Sh- novel of actually written I've got a really solid second draft I saw. You sleazy writer. WILL USE PASTA AC- is caused and to the first novels kind of solid but not there. So that'll take probably another till the end of the at least to sort that out, and that is actually that is about men. Sabaj a gay relationship. Oh. Cool. Yeah I'm curious what? Your previous novels announced you mentioned the about Suffolk. You wrote your first novel while You with Yes. Sir African. Whites Africa now you writing from a distance yes. How's it change your writing? I. Think. So I hope it hasn't changed for the worse I. Think what's I've been able to do that I mean I'm very familiar with Suffolk. So it's not as if I'm going into completely different territory, but I do think that's maybe a little bit to do with building confidence as a writer is all can trust my. The reservoir memory I have to to hold this novel. And it is still a home to me suffolk side you have that kind of Utah. I spend a lot of time this. So my family's there. So it is. It is a very comfortable place for me. So we'll see we'll see if we disliked his. American. Black History, right? Yes and it's a political. Wing. Brace myself. And what I've noticed is that of black Americans critique the. Say White Americans? As Martin. Luther. King's politics from who he is created this figure. Order fight isn't they loved to quote. And then. Not Medella I. Felt there was a similar kind of threat there. He's become I wonder you think in your mind and obviously within whites basis, I would be a part of. Faces in many instances but like. Isn't the same kind of phenomenon happening. Phenomena but in a sense where to by people understand the politics of Todd Tom Adiba when the say Tottenham would. I would say doubted, I, mean is that awful to say I don't know. I think the is a kind of that's his history has its naturally regime. I think I think there is that and I think. He also becomes quite useful. Beacon of. Nostalgia. In a way and I think people don't always understand the fullness of that of the experience of of of what that implies and I. Often think of that in terms of. In terms of Winnie Mandela who I think acts as a useful counterpoint. To expose the the kind of Messiah type. Notions attached to Mandela from from the white community is the kind of demonization of Winnie. and. I think I think that's kind of a useful way of looking at it and I. Think the other thing I think it was a book and I compliment. But WHO nonfiction book. And it had the most awful titled in into his. It was a win win Mandela goes judge was speculative nonfiction book as as if with Mandela dying somehow the nation would fall apart and returned to come some kind bob resemble savagery image was it was the most awful implied racism that the same plot have been pretty vote That somehow without this. Why took -ceptable. acceptable well-packaged acceptable figure the nation will return to. Is just the most bizarre nation and I think I think that kind of persists. Can you give us three novels that you have having emotional connection. At this at this time. So I was I mean obviously Mrs Dalloway. Important to me and. and. Will remain so offended when sixteen and I'm so shocked by it I, didn't know such a noble was allowed to be written and that state with me. Intensive novels at the moment. So the novel I recently read, which meant a huge amount to me. was. Derek Jarman. His commodity nature, which is series of his journals. body is is a those a film Russia and and Twelve Gardner he bought a cottage on A. Regular beach under some near a nuclear power station and his his journey of trying to build a garden on this speech an into weaved with the fact that he knows dying. HIV. So he was. Thick the journal Star in the eighties dragnet kind of terrifying time, and it's the most incredibly moving story of a man fighting illness and watching his death come towards and trying to build a garden that's going to against the odds on the salty outcrop. So. It's absolutely extraordinary and filled with rage and incredible tenderness and beauty, and some of the most amazing nature writing and I hold that book ditch meeting reach writing. Yeah. It's important. Is something that the Dr Respond to very much the natural world so I think Derrick Jarmin's I've been thinking about again launched. And books that I reread again recently in which remember from being a teenager. Still such an important book to me is beloved. By Toni Morrison and it is I remember being. Terrified and. ABC's I think. Maybe fifteen I'm not quite sure. And that's a book All my books have kind of ghost in them and I think I really I think that was so formative in my writing and leading me to understand that. The Of Worlds can enter into novels the experience of Writing Trauma. Women's stories. I think was such a formative for me and. I read it again recently and I was struck by it still. Gives me the chills. Gold, good ways and bad ways So that's I. I would say those that of course it as you know change in Chania, speak to me in a month's time I'll be evangelical but a different book. Ben's good. With, regards to your walk. Nuys. You actually. Long interviews premiums now ends novel. Is, there a question and I also questioned too many offices rally the one question I think I go to because. When, when you're a fan of Going to CPAP. Every kind of interview John and a lot of times when I find preserve the formulaic. And becomes like, Oh, I can almost quote what exactly what he's GonNa say. So this is the question that I hold a lot because I always wanted to know as an author. Is there a question regarding? That you wish you were asked by someone who they need to Fan, but it never really came up and you what is the question? What is the? Yes, I thought I felt about this and in a waste any one question and and I'm happy to say that you have. You have excelled yourself in Moscow. So that is. I think. An effect you've you've done exactly. The opposite of what was interviews is they never? Talk about this neck oh so frustrating you never asked about the work. You always asked about yourself a tennis you this you that do this anything he knows it's the work it's a work. It's and especially females ost about themselves than not asked about the work in how did you? How did you branch wants to have children in all of the Munson since and you think? It is relevant to the book why? Why is the the having gone through this So I think for myself in a no fly, the authors it's always. Wanting to be asked about the work and the process and the quality of the work and the nuts and bolts of the work and leave the personal stuff not that it's not relevant. Sometimes, it is directly relevant but not always. And keep that to a minimum and focus on the work which you've done. Through by that sort. Time now you love us for the final reading and I said, it's GonNa be something about Jamba. It's going to be about September because I hold him very yeah and So I'm just gained rice read from. So to reach from. The beginning to the middle of. September time he had nowhere to go in no job to get to. He could not work the pain was to coast. Any physical work would leave him feeling lilting and swaying. And, suddenly, his whole head would be fun of helicopters with blades opinion slicing their way through his skull. He watched a newspaper delivery van pull up in front of the building bundles of gray wrapped in plastic on the front Mandela in long rows wrapped in plastic on the headline, a nation mourns. September set down the middle of the grant across the fountains, the across the diamond across the Sun, light and dog Nice in day. The city overtime reduce him to me a units of himself as if he was some ramshackle apartment block at the back end of Hillbrow a block with only a few windows Lynch against evening smug lights, it would be extinguished one by one. He led the Fountain Miss Him in what felt like the do the kind of rain that leaves the Gross Coverage Globes of light. He sat and felt all the pain in his body received in the spray in felt to the warmth of the day on his back like God's hand urging him to life. He caused his eyes lit the fountains, baptize him in Eunice. And Essay. Did he failed his true name coming back to him? Arose. Thank you so much. Thank you seem being joy. Johannesburg is published by Corsair. You have been listening to the wonderful words podcast. You can down this episode as well as other episodes of the show on Apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm with seeming bumps I have. Thank you for listening.

Mrs. Mrs Dalloway Johannesburg Nelson Mandela Virginia Writer Virginia Woolf Suffolk Africa South Africa US John His Jin Africa Richard United Kingdom Peter writer Vero
My Feces Chucking Pal

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

38:46 min | 3 months ago

My Feces Chucking Pal

"They friends armstrong. And getty. Here and mike. Lindell the inventor and ceo of my pillow wants to give back to our listeners. You can get great discounts on all my pillow products right now. Mypillow dot com click on the radio listener. Special get deep discounts on my pillow mattress toppers towels and much more. For example mike is offering buy one get one offer on giza dream. Sheet sets the best sheets. You'll ever own go to mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener square and use the promo code getty. That's my pillow dot com. Use the code getty from the abraham lincoln radio studio the george washington broadcast center. Jack armstrong and joe armstrong and getty show. I feel spent for some reason abuse. Oh my energy for the first two hours of the program just. I don't sorry to hear that. I left it all field. The first half. Maybe i need to do that. Whole blood restriction thing. Olympic athletes doing tire rubber bands around my knees until my feet. Turn purple chokehold. Maybe that would work. Because it's your brain that you need right. You don't need an elbow you don't have elbow problem. You have a brain problem. So i think the only solution is to choke you out. Yeah well. I did briefly. Consider going to medical school Speaking of killing things for the first time ever scientists have witness chimps killing. Go reale's just read about that. It's it's wild yet. Another blue cities hilariously wasteful effort. Douse the homeless. And you remember college. Athletes now can promote their own images and likenesses and their names. What that's worth holy cow. You're part of a big college football program. We might have our first seven-figure college athlete and the guy's not really even played. I think it's much more likely we're going to have May already have our first seven-figure college haughty athlete. The play the you've never heard of who might not even be on the varsity team all that. That's who's making the money first off and nobody anticipated this because this is new for decades. They've been arguing about whether college athletes should be able to make money all of a sudden they can and you know who's jumped out of the gate. The fastest those too hot twin fresno girl basketball players from fresno state. And then there's another. There's a roar in the northeast someplace. It's got millions of followers. Those are the people that are making all the money. Yeah yeah well you could figure that out if you're looking at it the right way. I mean look at instagram. For instance or even twitter you get somebody on twitter whereas mildly interesting opinions. But they're fairly run of the mill but they got big bubis they'll have ninety thousand followers. Thanks twitter so anyway on a more serious topic and we will get to the other stuff In a little bit. Bill bluejean continues to do just fantastic award-winning reporting from the southern border. The us is in an absolute immigration crisis. Depending on how you look at it as we discussed last hour. Democrats republicans everybody behind the scenes actually loves illegal immigration because it provides you know voters perhaps on one side cheap labor and props up our gigantic bloated overtaxed social welfare. These safety nets. Isn't it going to be quite the twist of history. If what appears to be happening happens that hispanics move toward the right because they are more the fan they are more the right is more. The republicans are more of the party of families and church and a lot of the things. Ep the border care about hard work in hard instead of being on the dole and want to be some republicans end up with hard to beat majorities because of illegal immigration all these years. Yeah wouldn't the the reason democrats allow it is because they think it's every everybody across the border a voter for life now. I don't think they're right and it. Just it absolutely bears repeating. If i'm in charge of the pyramid scheme which is social security or medicare where it takes quite a few active young workers to support one oldster because ulster's have a lot of expenses and i see the birth rate shrinking in the demographics changing and now instead of having that seven workers to support oldster now down like four and you see twenty thirty five or whatever they're saying lately is the drop dead. Now we're broke time for these big programs. I'm saying wait a minute you telling me you got millions of young hardworking people who wanna rush across the border and come and take jobs and contributed social security. Let them in. Let them in. And that's what's happening anyway. When they say it out loud that's what i don't like Yeah i don't. I don't think it's that difficult to comprehend. Same as we've been arguing with afghanistan. Just tell us tell us what you're doing. Not having babies. We need young workers to support the old folks. Here's the way the math works. What do you think. And i would get. You would easily get a majority on your side. This is how many people we meet need. This is who we're going to let in and we're going to control it. It's the uncontrolled nature of it that pisses people off. Yeah i think they're afraid that they they're doing better this way then. Several possible outcomes if they were honest with the american people. They're thinking why gamble fine. That's hard to say. But anyway back to bill mulugeta fox news doing great reporting down on the border clip number ten. We're here in the del. rio sector. One of the busiest more than nine hundred apprehensions happening down here every single day. And we've seen a lot of activity this week including today group of about four haitian men allowed to just walk through the open border gate behind me into the united states with No resistance whatsoever and just give themselves up to border patrol and this is something we've witnessed literally all week long down here kevin williamson of I don't know who with officially. I think i read it national review though he His thing is always. Why would we want more poor people. We got enough poor people already. Why would we wanna let in more poor people broncos. We're paying a lot of people to stay home from work now so we need Poor people who actually work. That's a good way craft society. As i said there needs to be a name for this economic system you got the free market or capitalism ver. You have socialism fascism. This is fuster clock. Ism where you pay a certain group to stay home then then and turn a blind died millions rushing across the border against your so-called laws. There ought to be a name for them. You got throw in a little of this too because this is also happening. You've got educated. Skilled people from around the world wants to come here and we make it impossible for them. You gotta throw that in the hell out of them he can throw that in. Because that's an interesting wrinkle to the all the other stuff that you said could kind of make sense but then throw in the part where you don't let educated skilled people from other countries. Come in you make impossible now. Tell me that makes sense right. It could not be more ideology. He says fearful that they'll find a way to make it more idiotic clip number eleven role on my had a chance to talk to some of these guys found out there from all over. The world is not just mexico guatemala honduras. Take a listen to this on ghana. You're from ghana brazil from brazil. Different haiti i'm john. Paul my lawyer. I won by just half a second. Call my lawyer ghana ghana. I'm going to ghana means going to gary that whole tape again. It's one of my favorite things ever played a russian teenage girl explaining to Russian citizens how to act like americans so they won't be thrown in putin secret jails. i'm gonna call my lawyer mean. I'm going to ghana is. I'm going to go right all right. Clip number twelve. Right here in del rio this week. This man was arrested by texas. Theus he is an active member of the xanthos cartel extremely dangerous mexican. Drug cartel state troopers found him walking on the side of the road. Thankfully they were able to take him into custody before he got further into the. Us immigration is the biggest failure of democracy. That we've had the reason. I say that is because the numbers are overwhelming on how to solve this. It's so easily solvable. You look at any other. Polls like eighty percent of people want to control the border like eighty percent of people are okay with having plenty of people come in and work. It's it's it's it's such a failure. It'd be easy to fix but when you got both sides with strong reasons not to fix it. It doesn't get faked right right. The issue is what they love. they don't want to solve it. That's the last thing they want to do. And i want to wrap up with this. Starting a couple of clips of lindsey graham and this one. He is confronting. Tom vilsek the socialist longtime iowa politician secretary of agriculture etc clip. Fourteen if we legalize one person under this program which i've been historically for how will that affect border security will. It'd be a run on the border. I don't believe so in fact you don't believe so you don't believe the reason get legal status to hundreds of thousands of people without first securing the border. They won't be a rush on the border. I don't believe so why well in large part because the people were talking about within the egg workforce or people that have been here long period of time. Do you understand pull factors. I understand the nature of this workforce. I also understand the understand that if you give legal status to one person without i what border. You're gonna have a run on the border. Ten times worse. Yeah this is why you don't idolize politicians any politicians. This is a guy tom sack. Who's willing to in the face of this onslaught on the border caused by the campaign rhetoric and then early policy changes of the biden administration. You've seen this spectacular flow of humanity to the border. In spite of that. Townsville sack says no. I don't think that sort of thing causes more people at the border on on the way. I don't know what you're talking about. I mean that takes balls to say that. Oh he's a longtime a lion politician. Give me fifteen please. So what's happened here is that the biden administration was put on notice right after the election. That few change trump policies. If you stop building the wall you go back to catch and release. Allow people to come in and make asylum claim. Release them into the interior of the united states will be overwhelmed and overrun and they were right and nobody in the by demonstration is adjusting their denying the truth. He i would say that sums it up rather nicely you know. We're not here to make you depressed or cynical or anything like that but we also don't want to send you sure seems like we are. We don't want you dancing at the end of the strings of politicians. Who are pretending to care about these issues. And and and making you dance back and forth and show up to vote in in You know give them money investment now. There are some people who are serious about a immigration form. Just try to find those try to find the ones who are sincere about it. Who tried to do something about it. So i looked up the numbers again. Because these can't be repeated enough. And i wish republicans would talk about it but as we said there in on it to harvard harris poll eighty-one percent of respondents considered immigration to be a serious problem with force. Are you said. Fourteen percent eighty-one say it's serious. Problem of that crowd forty three percent. Say it's very serious. Problem and fifty. Five percent of people said that biden should should've left trump's policies in place a majority fifty five percent said biden should've left trump's policies and replace but if you take in any media the idea of building the wall only crazy racist right winger evil storm the capital nut. Jobs think that they'll break test. Not walls oh my unicorn pooped own now. Oh good news it's cotton candy unicorns poop. Cotton candy build bridges not walls Yeah sixty four percent. Nearly two-thirds told the harvard harris poll that the biden administration needed to issue new stricter policies to reduce the flow of people across the border. Two thirds of americans believe that. I don't know who this harasses but harvard is liberal as hell so i think those numbers ain't You know cooked up by some right wing. Think tank right. Yeah well son of a gun. What are you gonna do any who you're gonna watch chimpanzees murder apes that's what you gotta do is that's brutal and realize it's a planet of the chimps in the chimp isn't a. I'm sorry i said eight meant gorillas you got chimps murdering guerrillas. Ugly it is. Yeah chimp ulterior head. Right off your neck. Man's pit down your throat. Why would but it could tariff your arm beat you with bloody end exactly. That's exactly that's all the time right when that happens and getty the armstrong and getty show. Well this isn't good. Reports of in-flight disturbances are a five hundred percent this year in-flight disturbances now airlines are having to be a little more aggressive and they're even adjusting their slogans. Take a look. American airlines new slogan is we duct tape delayed. I don't think we won't do it again. Oh yeah that's real. Also delta's new slogan is now offering complimentary mouth car. I mean i finally frontiers. New slogan is we can't afford to press charges. Do it ever bro. Budget airline can't afford turkish. Whatever in most of the kerfuffle are over masks and don't throw your masks. I have breaking news. Oh lord they wanna do it now or what. It's up to you okay. That's brazil if it's really breaking news getting a phone call from my doctor owner. Why i won't answer. It could mean anything important. The admited the biden administration is reportedly discussing bringing back a nationwide mask mandates urging it. They can't the federal government can't make it happen but the cdc recommending that states Urge mask wearing for vaccinated people vaccinated or not where your masks again like. It's last summer. So whitmer cuomo in new cellini just got visibly aroused so is their science to back. This up are there enough. People that are vaccinated getting the covert and spreading it that it makes sense to make us all wore masks again and critically are they spreading it to people who will get seriously ill and in what numbers because the numbers right now are tiny would never alter national policy for this number of people dying. We're just we're obsessed. Were the you're You know just we're fixated on cova crazy so chimps and gorrillas hang out together. Various places. In in africa they have forever and though both timpson guerrillas can be violent and territorial usually when they fight it's within their own groups and they will chimp will kill another tamper. Usually it's groups at champs is a guerilla just a bigger chimp. No no it's a different species of animal and i noticed in your text earlier referred to them as monkeys. They're not monkeys generally speaking he's tales apes do not. They're all for that. I appreciate the obscure seinfeld reference but the news research new research thales to fatal encounters in which wild chimpanzees attacked and killed guerrillas. So normally they're hanging out eating fruit together whatever and they'll greet each other. What's up g orialla. I'm good much. Impe buddy my feces chuck in pal and they get along just fine very peacefully but for the first time they've observed chimps murdering apes. There's some speculation over masking that it know that there is some speculation that it might have to do with shrinking ecosystems and maybe even global warming or something like that but both incidents took place on the outer boundaries of the chimps territories territory in the main aggressors were adult male chimpanzees. They observe the attacks from about one hundred feet away. Which is like you know. You know to run home plate to first base but just a little bit more The first encounter lasting fifty two minutes while it's gruesome fifty two minute fight to the death I can't even imagine. I wouldn't want to see it. Yeah this is There was the chest beat than there were screeches than they're a group twenty seven chimps attacked five guerrillas. Oh my god. The guerrillas tried to defend themselves but to no avail. Yeah the rest of it's too grim but the animal kingdom violent place so a bunch of texted. Hey did you see. Joe biden on cnn. Last night you came off extra old will play a couple of clips from that coming up. Next strong and getty. This is urgent. It's been more than a year since george floyd's murder but this isn't about one event it's about policing and safe communities business. Roundtable stands with the millions of americans across the nation calling for policing reform. We urge members of on both sides of the aisle to continue working together to pass. Bipartisan policing legislation. That can be signed into law before august recess paid for by business roundtable the armstrong and getty show and the question is whether or not we should be in a position where you are. Why can't the the experts say. We know that this virus is in fact is going to be. Are we know why all the drugs approved or not temporarily improve but permanently approved. I've i said. I have no idea what he just said. That was cnn. Townhall meeting last night out what he was talking about there. Here's that is not good. There's a little more. You got the vaccination campaign you see now it works or you know or the mom and dad or the neighbor or when you go to church or when you're not i really mean it. They're trusted interlocutors. Thank you the people if your kid wanted to find out whether or not there were there's a man on the moon or something. You know whether those aliens here or not. You know who were the people. They talked to beyond the kids. Love talking about it on your turntable house. Walea that was one of those moments that if he had had. During one of the debates trump would be president right now but they gave him a shot of something to make his mind worked better or he just got lucky that he didn't have one of those because of eat. Add one of those moments during the debate. Honestly i think trouble to one big fat shot in the ass and had a conversation. The other day which i was reminded that if second debate trump had showed up for the first debate instead of the you know super combative interrupting every word trump. He would have won. But you know back to the real problem. We got going on right. Here's our president is sold. His brain don't white. We're goodwill that used to right. There will be stories and they'll either start coming out while he's president or maybe they won't come out for twenty five years because those secrets are held that long but they're gonna be stories of people in meetings going. Whoa you know what's happening. Where yeah hallway conversations after meetings where they say geez. That was something wasn't it. They have to have a twenty fifth amendment committee that kinda just hangs around the sidelines and keeps an eye on things and how they're going to figure out when the completely incapacitated joe getty just invoked the twenty fifth amendment on joe biden. Oh absolutely. I stand by my comments. I think the guy is at the outer edges of Neurological competence not his fault. No absolutely not and for national security purposes. I'm fine with it being kept quiet until we have to deal with it. So maybe this is a good place to fit this in his anywhere. I just came across this Recently read mrs dalloway by virginia woolf. It's one of those books that they make you read in high school or college or something. I don't know if i did or not if i did it. Never made an impact on me at the time but at my current age it did newer. Time has a thing in their book review section where they asked people what are books. You should read before your forty book. She shouldn't read until after your forty which i'd never really considered before but it's clearly true clearly true that there are there are things that they make you read in college that they have no impact on you because you haven't had the life experience you haven't had kids you haven't grown old. You haven't haven't you just haven't had the life experience to get into them and then there are other books tried reading. Some jack kerouac at my current age. You know a few years ago and it just seems stupid to me. It's self-indulgent stupid and it was like really deep and meaningful to me. When i was like twenty nine hundred just just where you are in life i guess yeah sure coal anyway so this is from. Mrs dalloway gotta keep in mind that they're talking about people. Being in their fifties. This was written in one thousand nine hundred twenty five. I think max then being in your fifties was more like being in your seventies now so indirect is that i mean the whole sixty is the new forty s for real. My mom talks about all the time she said. When i was young somebody sixty was an old folks home. Wow that's just. You know common law combination of health attitudes. You know starting adulthood ma. You know you're married and had kids when you're twenty so just a lot of things were different. So excuse the age he is in this. Think more like seventy year old than a fifty-three-year-old. 'cause i often i often. I don't wanna sound cruel here. But i often see old people and i think what gets you out of bed in the morning and i. I wonder about that for myself. Like when i'm that age what's going to get me out of bed when i'm seventy five. What what do i enjoy. What do i look forward to. I mean d- spend all i. It doesn't seem like it being around my parents or other people. It doesn't seem like you spend all your time thinking. Everything sucks now. Everything that's happened before. And everything sucks in my life. Now people don't do that. But i can't quite understand why you know it's about the people you care about. I guess well this is. I came across this explanation. I think in. Mrs dalloway that i think explains it and and and i hope this is the direction new goes for me in. It must go for most people. I'll read this best. I can about one of the characters in the book. A terrible confession it was. He put on his hat again but now at the age of fifty three one scarcely needed people anymore opposite of what gioja said. People scarcely needed people anymore. Life itself every moment of it every drop of it here this instant now in the sun in regent's park was enough to much indeed. A whole lifetime was too short to bring it out. Now that wanted acquired the power the full flavor to extract every ounce of pleasure every shade of meaning which both were so much more solid than they used to be and so much less personal. Now i've read a watched a couple of long explanations of what that just that paragraph means and you know if you're older maybe you can Chime in on the text line whether or not this has been for you That you reach an age or it happens gradually over time. I suppose to where you start to notice the world around you more than you ever did with you. Taken out of the mix because when younger. It's all about us tour. And by younger i mean up until like age seventy but it's all about us. Everything is how it affects us. How is this good for me bad for me or whatever and what. He's explaining right there is. It's not personal anymore. It's just observing the world. I'm just floating around in the world. I'm no longer. It no longer matters to me because most of my life has been lived. And there's just so much richness to the world here once. I've extracted myself from it. Which is kind of the opposite of what you might think but once you take your own needs and personality in everything out of it and you just observe nhs and things and beasts and buildings and traffic and everything like that. That life becomes very rich and very interesting. I find that fascinating. I hope that that's the experience i have. That would explain to me How you can be quite old and still get a lot out of life. That's the first time i've ever seen explained that way anywhere in fiction or nonfiction interesting. Thought i used to regularly describe. This radio shows a trip to the human zoo right. Maybe just watching the human zoo or the regular zoo animals are just just watching the world be what it is without the the freaking filter that is self which is what dominates us through so much of our lives you know need to be loved liked respected envied. Whatever it is that drives us to buy things and do things and strive for this or that but once that is done according to this anyway. Virginia woolf we you gotta remember killed herself So maybe it wasn't working too well for her That's just what you get out of the world. I dunno agree or disagree any thoughts on that text line. Four one five two nine five k. Ftc gave me something to look to four. One i'm sorry. Go ahead four one. Five two nine five k. ftc. I was just going to say i was. I'm thinking about the don't need people anymore. What what exactly was that. Line was walking out of a party. And just how and the party was all about the other stuff we were talking about self is all about addison. Who knew who and who was wearing. What and who drove. What and all that crap that dominates so much of your life. Yeah and he had reached the age where just none of that. Crap mattered anymore yet. That i absolutely get. That's not what i was talking about. I was talking about real connections between humans who care about each other and bring each other joy. I mean at the point. You don't give a damn about making any more money. You're a career to some extent. Who's in office depending on the politics of the time. Yeah that's interesting good stuff richer. You say author. Virginia woolf put heavy rocks in their pockets and walked out into a river when she was in her late fifty. So i think it's possible to have wisdom and insight and also crushing depression. Yeah i don't think the two are mutually. Lena you did it on purpose registers just like to carry rocks around in their pockets end. She likes to take walks in. The ocean never occurred to her not to do both at once. She left a note for her husband. That said. I don't think anybody has ever been happier than ours. I'm sorry i'm doing this to you. But i just can't go on anymore and put a heavy rocks sner pockets and walked out into a river. Why there's a cheery little story you got here thing though isn't it yes. Yes it's made me slammed comes up with that idea. Thanks for making me sad. We don't have to be sad. You're not gonna do it. I know. I don't have to be said i am sad. Don't tell me how to be angry. Don't tell me not to be angry either. That make me say again so albuquerque. New mexico trying to deal with the bums in junkies problem yet. Another unintentionally hilarious. We're going to take care of this. Nice try has funny. Nobody asks this question. Has anybody had any luck with anything other than being harsh by not supporting the bums junkies. Had anybody had any success with anything other than that. I would like to address that very question because we have listeners. Who will email and say what you guys are cruel and heartless and you never say exactly what we ought to do with these people. I will answer your concerns. Probably not to your satisfaction. I will answer them. If i can overcome the sadness. Jack is inflicted on me coming up in moments armstrong and getty show visit here but it is what it is did. I have please a fifty piece. Mac minis fifty exactly not fifty one. None forty nine jiechi these and Let me have a large drink. No ice have sprite half lemonade. This is how this is going to be. Oh john soon. Let's genus on. Can't pronounces name the greek freak from the milwaukee bucks having just won the mvp and the and the nba championship driving through a chick-fil-a fans recognize him and start cheering. Is that zip code. Are their area. Code was up. What is his number. Or what is this bucks and sixes with channel bucks in six bucks in six. Oh i get it. I'm by one thing. I want to mention about him is he is a refreshing that he is one of those happy athletes that when i was a kid they were all like happy athletes and at some point somebody decided that being angry was the thing you had to be all the time and he's one of those smiling happy guys again. It's kind of it's it. It just seems weird because mostly you're mad all the time. Everything's angry angry. I showed you. He's happy hey scored. This is fun. this is fun. Yeah yeah that's cool. Seems like a charming guy. The ashley Do we have time for the super hot new golfer who just won the british open colin. More calla is. He's the same way very bright. Very charming friendly kind of open. Heart type guy. He could be a superstar anyway. So i promise you this thought we'd deliver. We got this from an alert listener in the albuquerque area. Closing in on six months after the tiny homes village open its door. First homeless residents the village as of monday had a mere eight occupants five million dollars six months down the road. Eight people there to other residents were there for a while. We're removed from the village. For being disruptive the nearly five million dollar project was designed with thirty standalone hundred twenty square foot homes with communal buildings for toilets showers cooking laundry and meeting spaces. The occupancy of the villages capped it forty and is expected to be fully occupied sooner or later but again six months in they just have full of people. Maximum occupancy is forty. Yeah for five point. Five million dollars. You're going to house forty homeless people. Yeah how do these things happen. So they recently did a This organization did a Survey in there seemed to be roughly sixteen hundred homeless people in albuquerque based on that number of homeless individuals filling the thirty tiny homes. Seem like a fairly easy task. It is not said the activists Gal the screening process for applicants has proven not only to be time consuming a bit too restrictive for many members of this difficult population. Let me guess. She can't do drugs or be drunk and they kind of like their lifestyle. Yeah alabama ball. Applicants with addictions are required to be cleveland. Sober for at least ten days remaining started not interested in. i like living out ear and being high. You must not have any extreme behavioral or mental health issues and not be a registered sex offender or have been found guilty of a sex crime. Other problem. sure and again you got to follow the rules and of the sixteen hundred alleged homeless people there in albuquerque. They've found eight so far. So how much money into the program. How much money will tax payers have to spend in various cities all across the country. Trying this experiment over and over again before soft heads finally recognized. Yeah most of these people. Don't want to live the life i live. They don't want to stay sober. Look for a job get along with people etc right well and a new cellini of california just pledged to spend twelve billion dollars with a b. in a year in california finally solve the the bums junkies probable here. Here's my cold reality as a realist. Virtually every decision we make every everything we do is caused by. Push factors and pull factors. That's a really good job. The pay is good. And i hate my boss. There's a little poll factor and a little push factor and not being above. Not being junkie is more than just giving people pull factors. Hey we'll give you a happier life if you move out of the park and quit shooting up in front of kids and committing crimes and stealing bikes. No there have to be push factors. That's what the great blue experiment has proved to me anyway. And as a guy. I am not a saint. I am a guy who's battled the impulse to do the wrong thing or the self-indulgent thing my entire life in the way human beings actually are you people at this point. Say where he going to put them. Joe don't you think that society owes them basic housing etc etc. You know what just for the sake of conducting my experiment. I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say okay. Let's build dormitories or something. We can agree on what the basic housing is. Well let's go ahead and build it. And then the other side of the equation is you enforce anti-vagrancy laws you enforce anti camping laws you enforce. Don't take crap on the sidewalk laws. Don't abuse drugs and public laws. Because that's those are the push factors that people say. See if this sounds familiar. I wanna live like this anymore or you could just make it as easy and comfortable as possible and pour billions of dollars into making junkie dumb as attractive as possible and then sit there with your jaw gape scratching your head saying why is the number increased. You kind of glossed over your setup there. The idea that housing is a human right. And i realize you were doing it for the to make a point but housing being human rights will not work for society. That is that is that that would never fly if we make housing a human rights that everybody is has a right to housing regardless of lifestyle. That's is an impossibility as a way to structure society not will you will have an enormous population that is entirely dependent on the fellow. Taxpayers are entitled very quickly. Run out of people that are willing to work and pay for the crowd that just wants the free housing right right and getting back to the push and pull factors. People will only work for one of two reasons to gain rewards or avoid punishment here. And and it's it's it's well to avoid the punishment of being poverty stricken have no home. I've wondered this for so long. I'll never understand. How a lefties. I what term to use. Because i don't want to include people that i don't want to include but so many of you believe everybody is going to do the right thing. What what in your life. Experience has brought you to that. Didn't you have a college roommate. He never worked with a guy. Or you haven't known enough people that just freaking suck. They just bad. They don't care about their job. They don't care about their kids. Don't care about how they spend their money. They don't they make. Don't make good decisions. Haven't you know people like that or apathetic dishonest. The predators or insert a purse or is somehow miraculously in your life. You've only come across people who make wise decisions. Wanna do the right thing but they keep getting screwed by bad breaks. Is that the only people. 'cause i haven't run into those people. Yeah well there's an aspect of leftism in america these days which can never insist people take personal responsibility for their own lives partly because it goes against the world unit goes against the review a government that government ought to provide for people as opposed to the more liberty loving conservative point of view that you are responsible for your own life if you are truly unfortunate. We'll step in a little bit and help you. Well another experiment and other town albuquerque. This time towns. We'll have to try this over and over again before we get get it. It reminds me of you. Know people up to triple the poverty line. Get government assistance on something. That's not the way i see. Government assistance ought to be working big our next hour if you miss it. Get the podcast. Armstrong and getty dot com armstrong and getty business roundtable with the millions of americans across the nation calling for policing reform. We urge members of congress to continue working together to pass. Bipartisan policing legislation. That can be signed into law before. August recess paid for by business roundtable.

biden administration getty ghana armstrong george washington broadcast ce bubis Bill bluejean party of families and church fresno bill mulugeta twitter brazil Mrs dalloway ghana ghana Theus Tom vilsek tom sack america Jack armstrong
Ep. 336: Allow Others to Share Your Enthusiasm, the Props Listeners Use to Manage Anxiety, a Deep Dive into Listeners One-Word ThemesPlus a Hack for Asking Tough Questions

Happier with Gretchen Rubin

37:04 min | 2 months ago

Ep. 336: Allow Others to Share Your Enthusiasm, the Props Listeners Use to Manage Anxiety, a Deep Dive into Listeners One-Word ThemesPlus a Hack for Asking Tough Questions

"It's nice to treat yourself once in a while give yourself some. Tlc third love comfort. Third love knows the science behind top to bottom comfort without sacrificing styles from perfectly fitted bras and underwear equality quality. Sleepwear putting on your essentials feels like indulging yourself every day gretchen. I'm staying in a hotel. And i treated myself to some comfort by sending out my laundry and there were four thirty bras various colors. We'll find your new favorite everyday essentials from their all new featherless collection to their number one rated twenty four seven classic t shirt bra. Don't feel getting dressed in the morning. Now you don't have to meet the third love loud and sleepwear from lazy sundays on the couch to weekend outings. You deserve some t. l. c. That's third love comfort. Go to third love dot com slash happier now to get twenty percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash happier for twenty percent off today. Hello and welcome to happier of typecast about how to be happier this week. We'll talk about why we should allow others to share our enthusiasm and we'll have a deep dive double feature. We do a deep dive into listeners. Use of props and listeners. One word themes for twenty twenty one. I'm gretchen. Rubin writer who studies happiness good habits and human nature and surprise surprise. I am right here in my home office in new york city and joining me today. From crypto rico is my sister elizabeth credit. That's me. Elizabeth craft tv writer and producer living in la. Although right now. Puerto rico on fantasy island and gretchen will soon be home in my home office. I am looking forward to it. Yes i do really enjoy having you in the eastern time zone. I have to say it is convenient. We seem so much more coordinated. But i also know that you're eager to go home so indeed it's coming. It's coming soon now before we jump in. We have an update. I asked if people had suggestions for rhyming slogans about why it's useful for us to give ourselves a demerit. Because i'm not people say hey. Don't give yourself demerits all the time. Don't beat yourself up. The we find it by kind of articulating a demerit. We often help ourselves to do a better job going forward. So we suggested that. Maybe we should come up with the slogan for this and we heard from a lot of listeners. Greg share some of the top suggestions. A lot of people suggested these name it to tame it yeah say it to slay it love that share it to repair it very apt and state it to abate it and then caroline came up with. Give yourself to merit you'll get a boost after you share it. Nice and susan said reveal it to heal it theresa. We reveal it to repeal it. And julie said get it off your chest than gig your best. Yes and then i came up with one myself. Elizabeth mine was patrol it to control it. Oh that's good gretch. i like it. Yes so these are all good. Pick the one that works for you and if you find it helpful to give yourself demerits as we do now you've got a like a nice rhyming slogan for it. Yeah i think the one that works for me is get it off your chest. Then give it your best. Yeah yeah because then. I she like. Oh you're being too hard on yourself but it's not meant to. We're not being hard on ourselves. We're trying to help ourselves. Yes who better in the future. Yes be happier now this week. Our try this at home to is to allow others to share your enthusiasm. Yes now gretchen. Explain this try this at home chip and also how it came about. Yes so this. Try this at home idea. Occurred to me. Because i've been in situations where people did something that annoyed me but then as i was thinking about how annoyed me i realized that i probably was doing the same thing myself. And so i realize it's worth sort of thinking about why this is a new wing and watching out for whether i was doing it. Okay so what. I'm talking about and maybe you've had this experience is someone is talking about a book a movie a historical figure. Whatever it is but that person won't allow me to share their enthusiasm like they start. Talking about game of thrones. And i'm like i love game of thrones but then they don't say like oh. Who's your favorite character. They don't ask me anything about my own view. They don't allow me to share their enthusiasm. They hold themselves out as experts. They're not allowing. Need to engage with my own thoughts. And i was thinking about how much this annoyed me because it kind of forced me to the sidelines to sort of be in the audience as if i had nothing to say myself of course you know i often did but then i realized i think i do this myself. For instance i wrote a viagra fy winston churchill and i kind of feel like winston churchill to me which is obviously ludicrous. But still. i'm like. I love it so much. I love the subject so much. I love this tv show so much. I love this writer so much. I kinda wanna feel like it's mine. And i don't like to acknowledge that anyone else has anything to say i want. I want to be the one talking about it. And i don't want to share the stage. I don't wanna share my enthusiasm with anybody else. And so i realized i don't like it and i do it myself and gretchen. I think everybody has experienced this and many of us have been guilty of it off for sure. I mean i have no doubt that when i start talking about the housewives for instance was somebody that i probably you know overrun the conversation and think i know the most about the housewives and i have the most interesting insightful opinions about the housewives whereas in fact someone else who's seen the all the housewives has eat will insight as i do. It's funny it's like you just want to claim it as your own and you don't want to acknowledge that other people have a claim to it even something. That's obviously available to everyone like a tv show or historical character. The what is really interesting in this phenomenon gretchen. How often it is about something where the person has a little bit of knowledge about something. Say a scientific principle and then they start talking about it to someone who's actually a scientist and still thinks they know more and have more to say and that that scientists are talking to needs to be schooled by them. I do think is adjacent to wanting to be a know it all which i absolutely have that no it all aspect of my my nature where you want to be the expert you want explain you wanna tell you. Don't wanna hear others views you kind of want to hold the floor and you sort of you want to own the subjects. Yes i do see this happening with dr friends. Lot where someone is telling a doctor about something. Medical doctor has sort of. Just sit there and take it. It's just one of these things that happens on every subject all the time. But i think that if we want. Be good conversationalist which i think most of us want to be an interesting engaged conversationalist you have to follow other people's leads to if they clearly are not interested in a subject you have to move on if they clearly want to talk about something you i think it's good manners to just at least for a little while like listen to their. You know how they're all this great restaurant they found when they were in santa fe dream. Da yeah yeah exactly and part of that is including them in your enthusiasm and that if you wanna talk excitedly about something and they want to join in you should share their share. The enthusiasm with them. Yes i have just say gretchen. I do think this particular try. This at home is really good for you and me. I think we are people need this. I think other listeners. Probably don't need it as much. Sometimes we do something where we're like. Well we don't we do this but we see that other would love it. I think this is one where you and i take it to heart and allow others to share doozy awesome related to that about sharing. The enthusiasm is to remember that. Even if you're i'm very zuzana something if others aren't sharing in it they may very well likely be bored by it because there's nothing more boring than hearing somebody explain at great length. The plot of a novel no matter how billions. Because it's not that interesting to hear someone described a movie or a tv show or a book or a restaurant like if you don't share an enthusiasm it's often hard to be interested in it and so by not allowing someone to share your enthusiasm we're kind of condemning ourselves to being boring. Yes sore frustrating. Yeah i think a lot of times people do that because they have social anxiety and so they're just trying to fill space which talking about the plot of a movie does. Yeah but if you find yourself doing that instead just ask the person question like where are you from and go from there. Whenever jack doesn't know what to say. I'm like you can always ask someone where they go to school. You know yeah absolutely so let us know if you do try this at home and whether you like listen i sometimes struggle to allow others to share your enthusiasm whether sharing your enthusiasm works for you. Let us know when instagram twitter facebook. Drop us an email at podcast. gretchen rubin dot com. Or as always you can go to happier. Cass dot com slash. Three three six for everything related to this episode. Coming up we have a happiness hack related to asking a difficult question but first spring our childhood experiences impact who we are today just like our investment in childhood education why not. You're young innovator. Super cool steam projects to nurture their curiosity and exploration outside the classroom with the kiwi coast subscription. Your child gets a new crate fun. Science and art projects every month elizabeth. I remember when i was a child. I did an art class where we made holiday gifts by hand and i have never forgotten what i did. It's so great to have these art projects to stimulate your mind gretch. I loved our physics carnival crate. It had all these activities about physics. But they were fun. Was like making things that you'd find in a carnival but you learn the physics like rolling stamps. So it's a great way to learn with kiwi co. there's something for every kid or kid at heart every month. Get your first month free on select crates at kiwi co dot com slash happier. That's k. w. i c. o. Dot com slash happier. Consider this ad. Is your mental health checkpoint. How are you feeling today. A little anxious have been sleeping. Well lacking focus. It's okay to need help. Sometimes in com can provide support. We're partnering with calm. The number one mental wellness app to give you the tools that improve the way you feel. Clear your head with guided meditations improve your focus with calms curated music tracks and drift off to dreamland with calms imaginative sleep stories. I love sleep stories. And if you go to calm dot com slash happier you'll get a limited time offer of forty percent off comb. Premium subscription which includes hundreds of hours of programming and new content added every week for listeners. This show calm is offering a special limited time promotion a forty percent off it. Calm premium subscription at calm dot com slash happier go to see a. l. m. dot com slash happier for forty percent off unlimited access to calms entire library. That's calm dot com slash happier. Okay at time for this week's happiness hack okay. This came up in. I was having a conversation with several people and someone raise the challenge of. How do you handle it when you want to raise a question. You know often a question that sort of an implicit criticism to someone. Who's very defensive or touchy or arrogant or for whatever reason does not want to be questioned and so in this context. My friend was a doctor and she was saying how kind of in the culture of doctors. If you're young doctor. It's very hard to question a decision by an older doctor and she also made the point that sometimes when this problem comes off of like one inch to question someone you can do it in private and that makes it easier but in some situations. That's not really practical. So i suggested a wrinkle on a strategy that i had heard from my friend. Aj jacobs who is a brilliant writer. So funny i'm who in the past did a lot of celebrity interviews and his suggestion. Because what comes up if you're interviewing celebrities as a lot of times. There's a question that you really need to ask you. Is the journalists. Know that this is what all the readers are going to want to learn about. But it's very hard to ask that question of someone who you think is going to be defensive about it. So what as suggested doing is that. You don't pose the question as if you're posing it but you you act like you're repeating something that others have questioned so you'd say something like well. What would you say to the rumors that you and your co star fight all the time or something like in the case of the doctor now. What would you say to those. Researchers who argue that sixty days is the right time for this treatment or whatever and that somehow it feels less confrontational when you put it in the mouth of these like invisible third parties. Yes gretchen barbara walters. Who's my spiritual master. Did this all the time when interviewing celebrities always those tough questions and she would always say. What do you say to those people who say. What do you say to know the rumors that what do you say to the allegations. And it's funny. How it works. You know how you can actually get away with that when you can imagine situations where you could kind of. Imagine these unnamed people and just put the words in their mouths and get yourself out of a tough situation. Yes scratch. If i'm ever interviewing one of the real housewives i'll say what do you say who insist this. So but what do you say to those people who insist it is right. You wouldn't dare suggest that they not suggesting but you have to acknowledge that there are those not in the room. Present company excepted. Yeah so anyway. I just thought this was funny about in the context of of doing interviews and it was only when i was talking to my friends that i realized it sort of had this larger practical application and i have to say everybody was so excited by the idea i thought. Oh wow this is. This is a hack that i didn't realize this is powerful as it was so thank you aj. He probably doesn't remember that he said that was like decades ago. He he mentioned that. But it's a good one yes analysis. Let's dive into our deep dive double feature we've got to deep dives today because one isn't enough and the first deep dive comes after episode three three one so in that episode. We suggested the try this at home of giving yourself a prop to hold which was inspired by actor. Andrew mccarthy's recollection of how he found it much easier to act and a challenging seen when he got a set of bongos to play during the scene and it was so fascinating to hear from listeners. Yes we heard from many people who use props to help bandage feelings of anxiety or self consciousness which is so interesting and really makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Yeah well and it's funny. Because i'm having my summer virginia woolf and there it was right in mrs dalloway one of the main characters peter. Walsh is always playing with the pocket knife. When he's young when he's older over and over we hear how he's he pulls out of pocket knife open shots at and it's clearly something that he does to manage an anxious situation. So here's what lawrence said she said. I am pretty nervous anxious person so i dread anytime. I have to give a presentation or lead a meeting at work. I work in construction. Ironically for both middle school and high school i attended a music magnet school in philadelphia. Where i used to perform all the time what always experienced a bit of anxiousness before a show. The nurse were nowhere near what they are today. What's the difference between then and now. Well now that i think about it. I've always held some sort of prep or was actively engaged in doing something with my hands while onstage. This is a huge revelation. For me. As i work in a male dominated field. And i wanna be taken more seriously. I'm also twenty-eight while most of my colleagues are older. I am now going to try holding a pen and i have a really good feeling. It will do. The trick is the thing if it's something small but sometimes just a small thing can make a big difference. That's really helpful to hear so laura and let us know if that works. I want to know and i love. I love holding a pen to so. I'm a fan of the pen. The pen prop. Fred writes a handy prop. I wholeheartedly recommend is a grip strengthener. I have one near where i sit. And if i nervous restless i'll use my grip strengthener. They're quite if you've physical health benefits to having strong grip as well. So i can see how doing that would also keep your hands busy and relieve nervous tension. Yes nadia says. I was struck by your advice about finding a prop to hold. Because that was one of my coping strategies during the pandemic i had to teach online by zoom which made me anxious in one day. I grabbed a polish rock. That was near my desk and it made all the difference. The smoothness the have the opportunity to shifted from hand to hand really. Calm me down. And i made sure i had that rock ready before every class along with all of my tech stuff. The one bummer is that i think it would be weird if i carried into the classroom in the fall. Append doesn't feel like an adequate substitute well one. I actually don't think the rock would seem weird it in the classroom. I think a lot of people do things like that with their hands. And i don't think anybody would think twice about it feels and there's you know people have those things they hold. It was interesting. We heard from several teachers. Who said they hold a mug. So maybe you can try a mug that does seem to be something that many teachers use as a prop in and and that's obviously that would be like very unremarkable useful. How the rights. I am a brand photographer specifically for wine brands. And i have found that. My subjects winemakers vineyard managers in crews are much more comfortable when they have something to hold onto. When i'm photographing them. I used to get the question. What do i do with my hands. All the time. When i first started this business but now i just give them a glass of wine which they can sit on or not or some other prop that would make sense in the context there in so here. She's like she's using it. She's putting the proper and other people's hands because she knows that. This is a way to head off. That kind of uneasiness. Karen says i realized that the clipboard is a favourite prop of mine. I am often running events for my church like the teen mission. Trip classes or retreat. I always use a clipboard to help me stay organized. Have the attendance list or meeting outline in front of me just holding. The clipboard is. I might be greeting. People are giving informal remarks and instructions has been helpful and also i'd say a comfort for me. We'll see this is interesting. Because i think a clipboard is also a sign of authority. Kind of like mastery. So i think that's a problem that kind of it's sort of also signals. It's a signal to others. So i think you kind of a double benefit. Their kristen said a prophet. I become really reliant on during cove nineteen has been my mask as someone was social anxiety. Even the smallest of social encounter such as running into an acquaintance at a grocery store can quickly send me into a self conscious spiral so much so that i can often be found. Skirting behind display stands or abruptly making one hundred eighty degree. Turn halfway down. And i'll to avoid running into someone i know and happy make small talk. I've found that similar to when i'm wearing sunglasses. Outside wearing a mask is given me an unexpected boost of confidence when i'm out in public does tiny piece of fabric somehow feels like an invisibility cloak. And i've noticed that when i'm wearing it. I am more relaxed. When i do run into people these days with my mask on. I don't feel nearly as vulnerable as when i am barefaced and much. Less anxious went out doing errands. These days will that is fascinates. Finally someone who enjoys wearing a mouse. Yeah yes absolutely. Emily says i struggle with anxiety particularly during interactions with others such as appointments meetings and face to face conversations particularly when. I'm not sure what questions will be asked or when the focus is on me to help with this. I try to have a water bottle handy filled with ice cold water that i can hold onto when i start feeling anxious i feel hot red and like i am not in my body having something cold to hold onto helps me feel more grounded and gives me something to focus on. This is a great idea. And i have to say with my five senses book and i think we've talked about this in the podcast. Before research does show that sensory stimulation can help you break through uneasiness or anxiety and so this is a great thing with like a cold water bottle but you can also put an ice cube in your hand or in your mouth or splash cold water in your face. Take a shower bite into a lemon something that shocks the system and brings you back into the physical world. It helps distract you from negative thoughts. It helps you get that feeling of being grounded. And so this idea of combining the prop to hold with that sensory stimulation but also like the polished rock. I can also see being like there's something very early you're holding a mug with hot copy like there's a way that the body and the sensor being stimulated that might be really helpful. Yes love hearing all of these. Thank you listeners. For these props fascinating is fascinating to hear about props and you know what else is fascinating to hear about one word themes listen to you and i cannot get enough us. One word themes we've talked about our one word theme so many times most recently episode three. Oh six we explained why we picked our twenty twenty one themes my theme is open. S and mine is butterfly great. You can see him wearing my butterfly necklace from india right now so we asked listeners for their one word themes and as always it was so interesting to see what people chosen why yes. Robbins is delegate. She says this helps the obliged. You're in me. Say no to things that can be done by someone else preventing obliged to rebellion one unnecessary tasks going to love it. Laurie says my word is yes. As in saying yes to new opportunities so far have been doing more new things. This is a repeat for twenty twenty since all my new opportunities postponed last year. Okay yeah again. Yeah lucy says i chose read and it is going right yes hashtag re twenty one and twenty one. Denise slow is by two thousand twenty one one word seem. I needed not to be rushed this year and have dedicated the year to not doing anything at speed. All my emails are signed off with enjoying a year being intentionally slow and book either slow days or hours in my diary to keep the pace interesting fascinating. Yup lisa says prepare in focuses on my family business spirituality. Health and fitness reminds me to put in the effort lay the groundwork and look towards the future. Enjoy the jury has been a theme for me. Since i first discovered your happiness project prepare gets my boots on the ground. In the trenches love that vicky has regal. She writes. i chose it to remind me to practice. Good posture be composed and try to have grace. I recently caught grace. Kelly and the old movie dial m for murder what perfect reinforcement for regal as an actress a real princess and grace grace capital g. little g. Sarah's my twenty twenty one word for the experiment. I'm an upholder too. So this reminds me that the journey is just as important as the destination. Try new things be willing not to do things perfectly. It's interesting how people often tied their word to their tendency. Yes it's a growing trend. Yes sell chose the word release. I chose it. Because i feel like there was a lot i could let go up six months into twenty twenty one. It seems the biggest thing i've had to release is judgment regarding what that should mean. That's that's thought provoking lizzy says. I chose flourish. Because i was feeling a word. That summed up all the progress. I've made so far as though all my hard work was building up into something amazing and so far. I've done exactly that moved to a new state where life feels much more natural and where we feel at home even though we are transplants landed. One of my dream jobs began to see my family relationships blossom within the boundaries. I'd set two years ago. I'm healthier happier. And my husband. And i are in the best place in our relationship we've ever been. It's been a lot of hard work about a decade and i've experienced plenty of losses. Here to flourish is definitely fitting me like a glove this year. Oh wow that's wonderful. Yes than someone who didn't leave a name wrote my word is value it is twofold evaluating what people and things such as possessions words activities etc are adding value to my life and are the words acts deeds gifts. I'm giving to others adding value to their lives. I'm trying to use this as my benchmark for evaluation of time money and resources sammy's word is believe which is credential. A italian i believe. I believe i believe my husband has cancer and i believe he is whole and perfect. That's a very difficult situation. Since great to think that a one word theme could help you sort of stay trained on how you want to go through that challenging time. Yes and then finally michelle wrote. I chose the word edit for my one word theme as a questioner. I don't particularly like to bind myself to word for an entire year. The word edit reminds me that i had the opportunity to accept the choices. I have made or have the opportunity to create something different from myself when i find myself feeling stock in something. That isn't working. I can hear edit in my head and it is absolutely empowering. I've got the word stamped on a ring so i have a visual reminder of my word choice. That's great yes. Well i love all these words. I always want. I've always wanted like have more one word themes but you can only pick one i. What can we do with all these words. I feel like these are words. Or i don't know make a card decker something but the part of the fun is you have to choose the word that works for you. I don't think you can just draw from the deck but if anybody has any ideas let me know because they feel so precious. There's such good ideas coming up gretchen. Scott gold star to someone. We both know very well. I this break. You're ready to get back into yoga. So you order the essentials an onslaught matt yoga blocks to keep balance and an exercise ball. And you use your bank of america. Customized cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping in up to five point two five percent as a preferred rewards member. Which you put toward your most essential yoga gear. Noise cancelling headphones apply for yours. At bank of america dot com slash more rewarding copyright twenty twenty one bank of america corporation. Bright side offers personalized life changing anxiety and depression. Care from your own home whether you choose therapy medication or both all plans follow. The highest clinical standards are based on american psychiatric association guidelines and eighty five percent of bright side members. Feel better within twelve weeks. I'm a huge believer in therapy. Gretch i do not think i would have my career if it were not for. Therapy and writes. Side is affordable with a flat monthly fee and no hidden costs. You can get all the help you need without worrying about a big bill. Plus with bright sides better care guarantee. You could get a full refund within thirty days. No questions asked join thousands of bright side members taking back their lives. Take your free mental health assessment and get up to one hundred dollars credit on your first month of treatment at great side dot com slash happier. That's bright side dot com slash happier bright side dot com slash happier. We love neutrogena products. I use neutrogena products. I think every day new to today we want to talk about jell cream. Extra-dry and night press serum chill cream. Extra dry has a lightweight formula that glides over skin it is non greasy it contains an essential hydra found naturally in the skin that binds to water and holds it within the skin service to help hydrates skin and its fragrance free oil free di- free and noncommunity genetic and the night press serum is clinically proven to restore and revitalize skin overnight. It's oil free suitable for all skin. Types non greasy die free alcohol free. It's a deeply nourishing serum that complements skin's natural nighttime renewal process to rehydrate while you sleep. Learn more at neutrogena dot com slash. Hydro boost okay. It's time for demerits and gold stars and elicit this is your week to give yourself merit say to slay it. Yes right get it off my chest and then do my best. Yes okay. I'm giving myself demerit. This week gretchen for not getting pictures with gas stars of fantasy idle rich and we have some big guest stars on fantasy island. I can't say who all of them are because it hasn't been announced yet But like for instance. We had three women from melrose place. A- guest star. And i was like. I can't wait to get a picture with them. I love melrose place. Did i get a picture. No i did not. I haven't even gotten a picture with roselyn sanchez. Who is the star. Fantasy island playing. Elena rourke yeah which. I should have like fifty pictures. Russell and i have zero. Have not gotten a picture with kiara. Barnes whose another person on the show. So it's like. I just haven't asked people to take pictures. I do think that for some people. It feels absolutely natural and doesn't take any time or effort and then for other people. It's hard and you're sort of like oh i'll wait for another day when we're not so sweaty or you know we're busy right now would only take a second but i agree. Feels you feel self conscious. Even though you know they don't mind part of it is i mean keep in mind like with roz. She's in. She's first of all gorgeous. She's in hair and makeup. And then here. We are looking at the worst. You've ever looked in our lives early science so it's like you know i just simply don't want to see a picture of me with with roslin but at the same time. I want that picture. So it's it's it's a democrat because you should always just take the picture. Delete it if i don't like yes and that is that is take the picture. Take picture so couple more days here. So we'll see if i can manage to Get some pictures in okay. It's a challenge. Can you take at least five southeast with different people yes gretchen. This does remind me of when we were at oprah's for brunch and Very namedrop yes we were. We were there. Newbury boldly us oprah for a selfie. I mean it was like an out of body experience because it was so brash. So bold and i couldn't believe that i did it. Oh my god. I can't believe that i was impressed. I was quite impressed. Then you've got it. I did get a great picture to we would. It wasn't a you took it right. I think my hand was shaking. I'm like this one. Shot here feels huge. Sometimes to ask picture with someone i know. Gosh okay gretchen. What is your gold star this week. Well i know you join in with me for this star because we want to give a gold star to chuck reed are amazing producer because check is so flexible if we need to record on the weekends if we need to move things around and because of the complications of both of our schedules yes a lot of times. Things have to move and check just makes that doubt much easier. Because he's so flexible. And i think a lot of people wouldn't be so willing to be like. Oh yeah let's do it at eleven thirty on sunday. Yes so goldstar shuck. Well thank you in chuck. We also give you a gold star for your patience dealing with all the tech. Yes jam yeah globe artichoke. Okay the resources for this week. August is right around the corner. Which means many of us are starting to think about back to school. If you're a teacher appearance a coach professor anyone anticipating the start of the new year. I have a guide for you. If you go to gretchen. Rubin dot com slash resources. And you scroll down to the section For the four tendencies. You can find a guide called using the four tendencies with children and students and you can just download that imprint. That many people have told me how much they use the four tendencies children and also many of you are lead us. We know this podcast listeners. And we hear from people who say that they're sorry that they're all caught up to the pike and then they have to wait for each wednesday or monday to get new episode. If you want more remember. I have audio books and you can get them from audible or ibex. Google play wherever you listen to ibooks and so that's a way to get more happiness content in your ears wherever you are yes and what are we reading. What are you reading. I am reading terry. Mcmillan's it's not all downhill from here. And i'm reading the eyes of the skin by you. Honey talisma interesting title interesting well. That's it for this episode of happier. Remember to try this at home. Allow others to share your enthusiasm. Let us know if you try it and if it worked for you thank you again to our executive producer. Chuck really canes thirteen. Get in touch. Threatens on instagram. At gretchen rubin at liz craft or email address podcast gretchen. Rubin dot com. And if be like this show please fisher to tell her friend. Word of mouth is how people discover the show and rate review and follow us. Wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next week. I'm elizabeth craft and i'm gretchen rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward gretchen. By the way as i'm about to leave puerto rico. One of our directors was in the emergency room because she had an allergic reaction to mosquito bites. So oh i bet. She didn't realize that was an occupational hazard for the show. I know right. She's okay now from the onward project.

gretchen elizabeth craft elizabeth credit Elizabeth mine winston churchill kiwi co Aj jacobs gretchen barbara walters fantasy island mrs dalloway gretchen rubin Rubin zuzana theresa Puerto rico rico
Monocle Reads: Jonathan Crane

Monocle 24: Meet the Writers

16:08 min | 3 months ago

Monocle Reads: Jonathan Crane

"Hello this is monica retailing. Georgina godwin am i guess. Today's jonathan crane the former musician and composer. When he turned his hand to writing he really went for it. Undertaking degree a masters then a phd in the subject. His debut novel. We need to talk. Paints a picture of middle england on the eve of the coronavirus pandemic told through a series of unexpected characters and their inter connected lives. Jonathan welcome to monaco. Reads like you know a musician and a very successful musician. Why would you pivot away from that. I think success was elusive in some senses. I was making music and it was selling all over the world in some senses. It was on television in america in australia. All over but at the same time wasn't really owning a huge amount of money also. I wanted to get some stability. In my life and i wanted a different former fulfillment. And i started off writing when i was about eighteen and i went to english degree in our drops out so in a sense at about in my early thirties i started to think i want to go back to wear up. You go and i want to start writing again. Good luck with making any money. Hardly anyone. I think you get the money from things like teaching. Don't yeah absolutely. So how your pass work as a musician impacted on your writing. I think he teaches. You really good work ethic. I think calls so your understanding. That piece of work isn't achieved all at and that it goes through drafts and reshaping. I think the thing that it does is to understand that. There's a movement through a piece that their dynamics and just as through a dynamics and this movement within music and you go chorus verse chorus verse altro or whatever goes this shape within the narrative as well and you can use those dynamics absolutely as a beat. There's a rhythm that goes through it. Isn't that absolutely. Does something that you can play with. Yeah can you listen to music when you're writing. No no i find myself. Just listening to the instruments just listening to how some things done and council of up rain off in terms of things that don i reference at the top that you have studied literature in creative writing in some detail and you now teach it and i wonder how that undestanding unpicking of the mechanics of writing how academia in the study of literature influence. Your own work quite profoundly. I think looking at literature. I was always looking at literature. Did my degree and my masters in literature then. I was always looking at the works. Now's looking at things like mrs dalloway. By virginia woolf owes looking at john steinbeck grapes of wrath is looking the history of the novel. I was looking at flow back all the way through going forward to jam could see and people and they said you're looking at all of that and you're thinking how are they doing it so that's your underpinning and then you starting to understand the techniques that are play and then as you move into. It gave me a chance and i started to do a phd in creative writing. And i gave her the chance to really start digging into technique. How did these different writers achieve what they achieve. And as you start picking that you start going awry i can use but then because you've got the space and the time to find your own voice. She start doing in your own way. And that's what going to university. Hopefully allow you to do. It gives you the space time it gives you a sort of community where writing is normal to produce and to find your own voice. And also i think the one other thing that happened to think i was floundering a little bit before i moved into my phd. I was writing. I wasn't really achieving what i wanted to achieve and one person elizabeth kuti. She's a playwright and she said a three word phrase to me which just gave me the key to unlock the door. Which i could then walk through. And she said show through action and showing through option just gave me that all right. Okay i understand all of a sudden. I'm going to use used and then you take it off on your own direction so it was quite important. Really I mean it's like the expecting somebody to be a plumber without having studied plumbing. I'm always amazed that people think oh well just bash out novel. Well i think i think he can. I think you can go to certain points. And i think you can teach yourself. I taught myself music in many ways. I studied piano when i was younger and not saw myself other things. I think you can't do. That's absolutely fine. There are lots of guidebooks text textbooks out there that you can go pick technique from but i see also pingyao go and talk to people. People who write people who've done it and being out pick their brains and then also having expert readers. Actually people i mean had some call matthew it was also reading by material and saying well what about this and asking questions of your start questioning that critical process. I think it really helps with when you go and study in the environment. Well let's now turn to to your novel it's cooled. We need to talk outlined for us. The book is set in subtly a fictional town on the hampshire and surrey border and commuter belts of london and it set in two thousand nineteen twenty twenty and really. It's a book about talent and its people you see. A town is changing with new building developments with industry falling away in a failing high streets and then this is set against a backdrop of a changing country with brexit unfolding in covert approaching and then amongst all within the there's a cast of characters who all facing change choices of their own so the book shows us life within the town for many angles and we meet shopworkers doctor's receptionist temps staff we artists lecturers town councillors carpet salesman. People in advertising meet the young and the old all these people rushing up against one of the and connected in some way and these lives built together to form a snapshot not just of the town but also of the society that we live in. so yes. it's about the town and it's about the people there but he's also about the way we live in some of the choices that we all face in half to make current society at the moment yes absolutely. I think it's touching on things like separation division between people and whether we compromise to belonged community and things like that which essentially quite fundamental at the moment i think within our society why choose that particular assessing it could have been one of the few settings and i was traveling around when i was in my twenties and thirties now living in lots of different towns around london making music. Doing the next collaboration. And as i was moving around i was noticing this deficient this separation. People living in proximity without connection as also notes that through pockets of community. And then i move to one place essex. Now move to the place in hampshire and they both seemed like nice containers that you could get a small geographical location and then set these characters in reflection against one another within that small container. I love the cover illustration and it's obviously has sort of small tunnel village highstreet but with a great big crack down the middle and of course we are so so divided. I didn't think. Britain is ever been more divided than it is now. I don't think so. I think the really started the fishers. Didn't we with brexit and we started. See a really polarizing debates but also. Then we've started to see those fissures from actually healed even though cove it as come alone. Those cracks is still bad and then now we're pulling away from europe and we're leaving dot community. We're going out on a row. I think that to some degree polarizing debate nature the went on with brexit as carried on in different directions and i also think the with covert. We saw dimensions of it in the way. That people responded. I think that we saw some people really are giving generously and showing great acts of kindness taking food to people who are in need stepping beyond the usual boundaries between us but also we saw people tussling supermarket aisles over toilet rolls so we still have this division with his also. The hope awesome possibility of community when we come together. I don't mean. I wonder about writing flush fiction and its therapeutic benefits. I mean particularly given your writing work in community settings used to of us flash fiction quite a bit in prisons as well and i think the beauty about flush. fiction is that is short but it's also challenging and it gets you to really dig into the rewriting and editing process and certainly within a prison setting or within a community setting but especially within the prison setting that you have a short piece of work that you can shake that you can bring to a really nice level of polish but it's also something that you can finish in a short period of time so you can share it and in the sharing of the creative writing people can realize that they're not on their own that we have stories through similarities between the stories that we all tell it also when you start getting people to think about editing rewriting redrafting. You're also moving into an area where you're talking about reform out to rewrite self so i think that's an area that's really interesting. The flash fiction is just a lovely to work with. yeah. And i'm talking about the human stories in. We need to talk. Of course you you focus on all of these wonderful characters. So for instance you have tom. Who's cleaning toilets. But actually you know. There's so much more to him. Yeah yeah he sort of is left. The family home after stepfather has come in and made it quite clear. That is not really welcome so really. I was searching on us. Homelessness in this term called falling through the cracks were people who sixteen seventeen if they leave home. They don't necessarily get benefits housing benefits. They don't necessarily they're not applicable for so it was touching up but it was also finding then he discovered that he had a home somewhere else and this is amongst chinese community rox chinese people and in a way that sort of saying for me. Anyway i was saying that house we find home in an expected places house find acceptance belonging in an in places. Yeah logical families rather than biological as as move on with say there are two characters and both of them would seem to me to be reflections of you. One of them is the formal lounge musician. Frank and then the other is the creative writing. Tutor tony to both of those. Have bits of you in them. Definitely arians e. The front character is also a bit. I mean he's in a story where the character called ted. And there's a bit of me and him as well and that's almost. I think me playing out the decisions. I was making about music to carry out on your own and chase your own ambition which can be isolating which can leave you alone in the world in one sense or jamaica compromise and you say i won't family won't home belonging so it was both of those things i this. There's two sides of me in that story. And then i think the tony character. There's a little bit of me in there. I think. I think his an inflated sense of self i think he is more eco centric. Perhaps than i am. I think kiss is also about weakness and about selfishness in about judgments over the people. So i think that's in a lot of us. I'm going to wriggle out of it like all right. Well then. Do you see yourself a tool in the character of Of heather who of course a a phone sex worker not as much no. It's more. I think that was something. That was wrangling with. It's to do with some people now. I think they have less opportunity of secure employment. They have more struggles to get onto the housing glut or even rented property and i was using that character in a sense to play out while that did to the individual what they needed to do in order to gain some of the things that they needed like home live promotion like to afford a life that they needed so she was then willing to do what she had to do yet. At the same time there is good enough so it's not that it's just a completely negative portrayal so i think that one's a little bit outside of me An observation more. Don't the finally having studied writing so comprehensively and now going through this experience of releasing your debut novel how you finding it the other side of writing which is of course selling the book bizarre for a long time i really liked being anonymous more invisible and then all of a sudden i'm having to stick my head above the parapet. I'm also still waiting the someone to tell me that this is rubbish. That this is your impostor and is my all imposter syndrome reflected out against the world. And i'm still waiting for the open. It's lovely when you hear someone. Say or i really liked that character or that was interesting or that made me think about this response. So it's frightening in one sentence but really rewarding absolutely well. It's a very rewarding. Read thank you so much for talking to us of us it valerie. We need to talk by. Jonathan crane is published by lightning books. You've been listening to monica. Reads thanks to produce a neuro hole and our research at sofi monaghan coups. I'm georgina godwin. Thank you for listening.

Georgina godwin jonathan crane mrs dalloway elizabeth kuti middle england john steinbeck virginia woolf monaco hampshire monica Jonathan london don australia surrey america matthew Tutor tony Britain europe
Episode 18 Part 2 | Cry Like You Mean It

Tiff Talks Podcast

32:34 min | 8 months ago

Episode 18 Part 2 | Cry Like You Mean It

"Hey guys welcome back to tip talks podcasts. I know we left you hanging a little bit from last week's episode a we are coming back this week with part two of minute with your host. Tiffany davis and our special guest. Michael ochej so here we go. Let's get right into it for me. Is to learn how to stop and pause. Because i'm like do you like two hundred things at once. And i know a lot of women can relate because that as women we just naturally multitask. We do hundred things all the time. And that's where as men men are a little bit more simple and maybe you can talk about the men side but as women we need to like stop just for a second because we do everything on the back end you know and so i don't know if you have any advice for men out there where they can to. I mean i think. Meditation is great but manner so simple when i look at like the dynamics between women women in then if i could just have your ranked process pollock chill the fuck out like but it's it's intriguing because that's how we balance each other out right. I feel like man mike. My husband grounds me really well without him. There's days where i'm like. I just need to cut off too much to him. And i don't know if you can relate to that michael where you have a sister rate Partner or not but like with your sister. I'm sure to see it. And she does the children all day to. It's just like a million things at once. Right and so i'm sure she comes to you to get grounded. Man feel like are really great grounding and and with women were really agree. I you know handling everything on the back end with multitasking. Like for example cooking getting getting things organized in really like doing things efficiently. Men are like that too just the way that our deeming has made up when we're innocence like the harmonizes so we make sure that we help where we can ray. The lovers is supporters. The we can do anything for our kings to make sure that they're doing whatever it is they're doing and are kings ground there queens rate so but in a sense like we worked together so well so can you tell me a little bit about the men aspect of how your brain works in tapping ended is on me and i wish i how it works on. So you're on a cell. But at home i agree like i knew. You use the word simple in somalia like men my own It's like it's not about that. It is actually more sense. I don't take that personally right. Our brain is just not built for all that much you know but even to have it in there has to be balanced there on that like you said. It's i definitely don't get so worked up over things ain't working on. The women are built with that structure. That is who you are. You are an ever present a powerhouse of things going on your the to me. The female body is the ultimate crater universe. You read life might affluency you actually make humans. What does it make sense or this shit. We make humans. Don't forget an razi. So you know earth. The of the universe earth is. She's a feminist body. And you think of the earth is a lover like you want you to learn to be lover you wanna learn to love love like earth. That she just gives a gives Kids and she gives it gives that we just take enjoy and take insurance then she just gives more right that is love. She loves unconditionally. The ultimate empathy compassion. And she doesn't want anything from us but to just excess right and women just want to love right. You're built like that. The universe is more masculine energy. It provides balance for earth to just give like that know there. Is that hardin slow so for me. I mean i get it. You're right we are. we can be more rebounding since. Don't get me wrong. There's some diva men out there. That can bury much. Throw the whole thing out of whack out of balance. Because they can't get their shit rights. And and i'll be honest now feel but you're looking at one. That was one for a very very long top. You know but that was my inner child. That was the diva that was the work that needed to be done. And that was needed acting out and now i look at it numbers like how can i help you. I'm not gonna wear that. Because you're going to that and i'm not gonna take it personal and where that is in assume that's meeting i. How can i be there for you. You know like how. Can i humble myself down enough to say if something's going on around me to just say hey down. Let's let's look at this as try and be a little bit more rational sometimes now. I hate to say that women are not saying that women are irrational. But like you can get like the hyper thinking the thoughts emotions get going and it can start only in different ways where managed. Hey what what we. Let's let's let's down here. What are we looking at right in. You had mentioned now. This is going to go for man mixture. You mentioned it like we go through that phase of party drinking and be promiscuous industry out there that is a form of suppression like i was a major culprit. Like i was just destroy myself in what that is just like the easiest term. Because i heard this on costa rica after treat and this woman said two thousand and twenty was very sobering year and i just sat on. Wow okay we had to stop being drunk. On all of our distractions. Just drinking and distraction drinking and distraction. I don't mean. I just mean our life going out. I don't wanna be at home a deal with my terrible relationship or the problem with my wife or that. I don't love my south enough of i. Don't want my job over here. But this over here. No by more toys and i'll just dissect myself or two thousand twenty men that will sober. Right can go do that. Got us it inside. I mean i hate that this statistic but look how many people split up coping. Yes how many marriages ended. And i not that is something that promote owning but the force field of sitting down being in each other's tablets saying hey. What do we enjoy each other more. What do i love about you. What do you love about me. Am i happy with myself and people had to go through that. We got sober through that show and i would do that stuff and we should be sober more often. We should be forced to be sober more often. And you know what you had mentioned hypnotherapy. Wow what a powerful bass put yourself into because what that's doing is shutting down your active ongoing drunk body and letting the unconscious come to itself would be like okay. What do we got here. Let's see what you hiding from. Because now you have no defense mechanisms. You are shut down. Shut down the system. Rick flop real shit right so i mean it was intense. I tell you that it still comes up in you. Talk about tiffany talks about the little girl. You talk about the little boy. I had to face my little girl and when you talk about men in the emotions in women in mother earth in all of these different things that are happening. When i hear tiffany say like men are simple i get it i have a simple man and i just think the way that we're wired as humans men and women is the way that women process things is. We break it down to every single. It's almost like that the tree or if your network marketing i have to use this reference. Because it's like the money tree you break down in so many little branches As break that's i mean that's how i think and my husband tells me all the time he's like. Why do you think about all of this shit. Every little thing and i'm like because it's necessary. It's in he doesn't get it because he thinks of it. As a to point b. equals c. and i'm like abc. The deliver complete new yorkers right. And it's i think it's the way that it's process were being told something. Whether were you know doing something whether reacting to something the way that it enters in how it's processed and then how it comes out is completely different in my guy is so simple and he's just like we just talked about this. I was like well. We kinda talked about it but we like didn't talk about it and he's like But we did. And i'm like. I don't feel like you've heard me. You didn't really understand what i was saying. And when i did the inner child hypnotherapy i had to meet that girl and i remember. She said who's down their house. I some girl she's like well. She's behind the door. And i'm like she can stay there like i'm cool with that arm. Light hundred percent cool. She's there. i'm here were divided totally cool. She's like no she's like you got to open the door. Might know we're not doing that. We're not gonna. I don't know and she's like well why she is so sad. Sad and when you guys talk about us we process things you know when we cry when we purging. You let go of things. And when i finally did that for myself and however anybody wants to do that whether it's meditation tiffany that's retaking drive and just like actually dealing with it in gigging not space. You know michael with this plant medicine in in really going into it You know it's when. I finally did that like now. My biggest thing to purge. When i get into those emotions is put on some of my favorite tunes and i just dance in a circle and i called tiffany the other day. Haiti have fifteen minutes to do it. A dance break. She's like i'm driving. And i was like but that was my thing because i was in that moment for those fifteen twenty seconds and i was just letting go of all of that stuff in that moment so i just think it's incredible. I mean men are simple but men can be complicated but i think women are so detail oriented except that way you know you on so many points. The thing is is like we talk about van veen so simple. There is a feminine sides men so detail orientated. They're going to have that feminine. Energy matt feminine. Grace which is both is great the way that we process though there's just a difference between males and females and a week that most males like we tap into their feminine energy too much you know they're definitely be a little bit more into that that feminine grace which is okay. That's beautiful deal. I personally think that a healthy balance of both is is very important. If i knew you were doing. I would have pulled over if i didn't know how to express it. In the thing was is. I was listening to madonna dance party. I'm like i'm my car. Is like it was madonna. And i remember listening to madonna as a little girl tap dancing online by four tile and it brought me back in it was just so much joy and i was just like and it was vote and i remember one. I'm still at you're bringing us up so keep going. yeah in. It was boca. And i was like like strike oppose. I was just like oh and they was just like it. Brought me back and it's it's almost nostalgic as not only did i need to release some of the negative that was i was kinda holding onto to be honest. I don't have as many negative a love it so much right now this season that i've images i just love it but i had a few little things that were bothering me. A little stressed out about I had to let that go in. Brought me back to that happy point in that six year old that i couldn't face she's my friend now and we were in that moment in brought me back to it in in. It felt good instead of before when i would listen to madonna. It was it reminded me of the bad and now it reminds me of the good and how dance together and apart at a year of usa. up you did ask. The question should to me about how we can work on some things. It's exactly what sang in what you said about. You took a dry. The went out and got quiet. We're fair was pulling up. Mrs dalloway to reissue that. That's what we need to do with their things that we know that causes issues caused stronger life or causes blockages. We need do rehab. We have to go pull out you have to. Whether it's a song apollo you wrote a photo of your mother. I mean something. Go get quiet like you to go find a way to actually not be drunk on the distraction and you sit inside it not like you said meditation is so good for you have to force yourself into it to go through the processing on the wisest. Just gonna stay down there. And now you can appreciate madonna because you force yourself to go through it yet. I love i love both. So there's two things The biggest thing was music. So minds france sinatra. I remember that growing up. I also remember it at disneyland. Disneyland is always going to be my happy place. Because that's why you play it all the time i get it now before i stepped on the olympia stage. I would have frank sinatra in my ear because it was coming for me if i have to speak. Were really nervous the first episode tiff tops. I didn't schedule anything. Prior to and i played frank sinatra and i just grounded myself for me ground me. He's very like soothing. And lobbied in you know he has a lot of power in his music and also. I feel like i was supposed to be about that. Time was because i will now even see movies like the notebook like true love stories in just the simplicity of the way that life used to be right Michael and i were talking about this the other day like how some of these kids are so brain dead with technology. and how. it's like the distraction. We're talking about distraction right now. It's for me. It's turning off the destruction and going to the simplicity. Remember back in that. Time with frank sinatra. How simple things weren how they lived. Just a beautiful ally full of love and even though he was a womanizer. But it just reminded me also reminded me my grandfather who a very stable Parents need my grandparents were and that was. I'm glad that you brought that up. But i also wanna kinda go back into michael. You're so great at being able to tap into that stays because of your medicine in united spoke prior to is i want people know because iowa kept coming up in water. I cast namely frigging. Am things calling. It's literally pulling my hair. This line. mike okay. So it's in my near future at some point don't know when but it's it's something where you get surrendered and let go. However not many people are okay with surrendering losing that control and Actually had a conversation with a friend of mine about this. He's like i. I won't do it. Because i want to be in control. I don't wanna purge out of my butter on my mouth. I don't know how i'm gonna work. So i'm just not going to do it so not everybody is open to that. It's like anything right. So when i mean by it's like anything it's like anything people we either do or they want because there is not for them and that's okay so for the people that are like you know what i ask. It isn't in may future. What are some things. That personal developments. Great meditations great but like really some tangible things that people can do now to be able to access that four year old or that six year old and without having to the plant medicine in being able to embrace that side of them. You know like. I think part of my journey is not for everyone. I truly appreciate going to send it myself to release. You know not feeling so tethered to structure and attachment of. But that's hard for people. And i get that. And that's why part of my journey i feel is to bring that people in a sense. That's understandable What i think what. This is personal assumption. That feeling that too soon as possible. But that there's a feeling of strangle holding the way they want things to go right buried Head type personnel. Will you can change if you'd like to. You don't have to be that way you have to. The brain is plastic. things can change. If you'd like but people hold onto that that archetype that structure they say no. This is me and this is all. I am but that's not true. That's just a belief that you said so much that you believe it in made an agreement that that's who you are and so people can release that that that song hold things in saying be more free in their life to come and go whether that's articles of clothing getting rid of things or not buying that next purchase. Because you feel it's upgrade from what you had. There's a lot of things that can be worked on. That doesn't mean going to do plantlets I think some of the biggest steps in people's journey to get there is something that you're already promoting. That is meditating in. it's not fluffy. it is real like shutting the brain down in learning to get quiet. Is such a healing therapeutic process. And if you can it's hard it is super heart but that's why there's got him. Imitations out there helping. That's why there's apps to help because it is super hard. We go through life every day. Consuming consuming consuming consuming consuming nonstop right so the time to go to china meditate at nine pm before bed knives and all the stuff you've consumed between six. Am and nine pm and you think your brains shot. According to now you take practice you got put time and you got to ask for effort so i think For more people at one is surrounding yourself with people that are willing to give put in. That work are willing to walk that process with willing to be killers for you. When you're ready to be week you're willing to say you know what okay. I'm ready to cry or to like be honest about something i'll never been honest about some embi. Was people ever gonna accept you tonight. What right start pulling up the things. He's much possibly canada. might trigger. You like ferret said the songs you know. Like i have things in my life that trigger me into elections and it's pulling those things up in not hiding from note. I don't want to deal with that. Because i know what i feel. I know those are the things you gotta go. Bring it here. Anita sympathies whether this is putting your pocket. Put it in your shirt. Put your backpack out or put it on the wall. But at least you're gonna start stepping closer to want to deal with those things You know we can't hope people change. We can't wish it will do it. We just have to slowly start to doing it ourselves. We'd do it. Weakened make the process ourselves. I love ferriss during your. She's doing the work so the kids that her kids can actually heal through in. They're gonna learn from la and especially if you have kids. There is work to be done because you are heading back down to them. If haven't done it done the work before they're born you've passed some of that on that is inside of them and there is work to be done to help them better their loss. Yeah i just think it's it's it's about finding peace in finding time to be quiet and let those things come up. Let those thoughts show up on. Otherwise you're never gonna you're never gonna know what those are unless she can get caught and take time to spend time self was so got I'm glad you brought that up because when people used to see that like. Oh you know your child's gonna take on your energy. Unlike a i didn't know right I remember that you know you have to stay. Calm when the deviously being or Commerce just because with my nephew. At that time. I was around fifteen years old and so i i kinda raise that child because he was call a. I'm like wow up exotic ryan but he took on some of his stuff rate. She was ready for a child. And so here. I am loving fifteen year old. He enacted to me but it was the best form of birth control. I will tell you that and it was. It was quite the experience for me because this child was literally screaming and for love. And that's all he wanted in so gas word now. I mean i don't have any biological children of my own right now. But they have this dog named charlie and this beautiful little baby charlie gay up as as my as like he's solid. He's good. he's so calm he's amazing. And then here's charlie. She's the only one who survived in her litter so something traumatic must have happened during that transaction. Because when i got her the most loving dog ever ah my goodness this dog i mean she will like she has such batting zayed's that when i leave like the houses turned upside down You know not anymore. She's done a lot better. Because i stay home for the most part and work with her but it was so bad that i took her to the groomer as i don't know what the groomer did because i'm just i'm just explaining us because you hit something. I have a child Beautiful dogs. I experience. But when i took her to the groomers she would literally shit on the floor. And i'm like what is wrong with you. And then the next time came and then she peed. In the next time i would get a call at. Your dog. needs to be medicated. Because she's not taking the natural coming treats she's biting him. Whoa what the heck are you doing to her. That's my initial thought. But then i'm like maybe she's just suturing anxious then they went back and i'm like you know. Children are born afraid children. Are you know board where they having zaidi. Just out of the gates have stemmed from somewhere. So i started to think about two two years. I did my dog k. I didn't know so besides her dog lovers out there. I was really really bad. I didn't know what was happening. But just like when you have your first child in there screaming and you don't know what to do. That's kind of what she was doing. She was acting out. She was acting out and i had no idea. And i don't even believe in medication. For the most part unless you absolutely needed a review of a chronic issue so by me giving my dog medicine. I'm i'm kind of just putting band in what dogs. What humans do we fight naturally so it actually makes them worse than the process. When they're trying to come down they actually fight it so she was finding it and then she was pooping everywhere and then finally the last straw for me was i took her in and i had to double her dose because she was stealing anxious i took her. The lady messed up the dogs and did the other dog. I and i went in there like an angry parent indians winning. They're like an angry parents. She told me she's like i did as i didn't do charlie I literally was made me double medicate my dog and you didn't even treat her. She cut the wrong. She flipped him. And i'm sitting there like that was my sign. She has been in neglect. She probably had done something. That just terrified the crap out of me dog and so i just take taken her to a groomer just two days ago in a toll soom news daniel and details pet moscow's i will forever be a customer. They were easy he goes. I told him the story was. Please don't bring your medication. Let's please have a sober visit. I and i was like that. Was it for me. When he said that. I brought her and he goes. She just needs love. She's very energy sensitive. She picks up energy. I didn't get a phone call. She was there for two and a half hours. He goes you know she's reading like ow. Did she do like she was a little afraid but the more we just stayed calm with her and the more that she saw ace was okay and then we just kept loving her. She's just the love and she's very energy sensitive dogs just something to keep in mind moving forward if you scream if you yell if you're anxious she's gonna feel now's like you're the dog. Whisperer your fishery. The dog whisper. And so i just want to use that as an example because our dogs i feel like our greatest teachers are dobbs and i mean so our children are our children. At a certain point. They turn into eleven year. Old monsters Different conversation hormones yet. And all that. But what i'm talking about like doctor agrees teachers because he had one job in life nuts to love no matter what. They're always going to tell you something through emotion you can literally steer your dog in the face. The same thing they've done studies on it you you can stay stare at them with no smile and their ears slowly go back or a baby will start to kind of pick up the energy and we'll start crying and so like when you smile and you like that baby naturally start smiling right in the same thing with dogs. Let me smile like come here you know. They're they're happy to see you on there loving and so you could just tap into that energy just those small little things and really look at the way that you're raising your child or the way that you're raising your dog. It's something again going back to the simplicity of things in our. You know before technology distraction. Go back to the human emotion. Go back to the way that we're naturally designed to you. Know react function Work so it was just very eye opening for me when he said that because using my is an example that everything is so based off of the way that we show up in. What we've done is work. You know and if i was at anxious person was ten years ago. I'm sure this dog would be still a media and still feeling that energy and that for me was everything. Now that i'm loving calm. She's calm now. You know so anyway. It was a very big lesson and You know going into that is really being able to embrace your emotions. Do the work do the work to work in heal from your past because you are passing it into the people love most and whether it's friends family your children. It's very important that it all starts with you. Justin epicure you know you had said something with twenty twenty. It was a sobering year. Always talk about that in my podcast If you didn't get in a learning at its money twenty go back you gotta go back and do some work because going into twenty twenty one with twenty twenty vision is really really important to reflect and remember purge those relationships purge that past purge those emotions because it continues to happen. you know. there's a lab in the process. You know michael iowa Out if there's anything actually During i love to hear from you nodding one thing like you said you gotta be clearing away for for where you wanna go right. You gotta be making room for what you want to achieve. And i'd earn raising speech. That from during peterson huge showed that whatever your highest attaining goal is for yourself whatever that is true You must that outright on. Don't go through life willy. Nilly why you've got to set that. Ultra yourself whatever. It is but as the greatest mother on earth being the greatest business owners woman or bayless. Powerful woman entrepreneur. Whatever that is you need to set that goal in because at that point whatever you're determining is your success in this life is there's nothing more important right and there's nothing that we should be flailing around life trying to figure it out you need to set that fourth in. Its you're not organizing your life around that. You're not really sure what you're doing you're not you don't even know the work that you need to do in the urologist outreaching so align yourself what it is your good is like you said you need to make way. Whether it's you gotta purred fringy out a purge emotions you've got to purge items you know the universe wants to conspire for you with theaters is not against sheets. Much do like wise. Everything always against wise always rainy. Why is it downpours. It rains or rain horse. I'd right the universe wants to work for you and we are massacre creators of our life and we are master. Magicians in this thing. We call life everything that we say everything that we think. Innovate we feel taste of what's about to come. So our words are powerful. We think about how you create words. It's from letters right. We create we put letters together to create a word. What does that call. It's called spelling. What is it called new magic you. Chris spells so when you speak. You're casting spells out there so think about that. Everything that comes out of this being becomes reality and just be mindful of that and i wanna share a cool thing that you brought up about meditating if people need that extra help. There's an app called balance in a just released one year. Free membership for all of two thousand and twenty one and ask ask you for some of the things that you're looking to work on and builds programs based around those things that are just like five hundred meditations ten minute meditations or sleep sleep music. Same to help you better. Whatever you're willing to work whether that's disciplined or balance orc listening Really collapse free for the next year. I don't get most from it. But i just joined. Sounds like why not join. Thank you so much. Don't forget you have surged fitness. My podcast new podcast coming out. It's like playing the line between religion and being spiritual. How do we find balance in that life. Get tools to work so it's gonna run right along side yours. Parallel lanes helping people get better giving tools to skip is find greatness themselves wherever you are more time for the. What's it called spiritual fitness fitness. I have fung amazing work. You doing inside and take care of the care about the physical anymore. What are you doing inside. Who will have you back on again. I m so rightful for you. Dropping some knowledge. I think it's very mendy here where you came from we are today because you definitely be alpha man different light. You know what you mean so it is really cool. Rina's the how you've been able to tap into your feminine. Your master land in. You told me well energy. I'm so proud of menu are coming so so much for being on today and we will definitely catch up against the and this is not going to be the last miss mr bloe she and thank you for your wealth and you guys know. She's my lifetime. Naser and what i would do ain't so sobering full free woman and he will be on our next episode.

madonna Tiffany davis Michael ochej tiffany frank sinatra matt feminine michael madonna dance party Mrs dalloway mike okay charlie hardin van veen somalia embi rica costa mike boca
Ep. 334: Happier Podcast Book Club: Writer and Musician Michelle Zauner Talks about Family, Identity, and Food in Her Memoir Crying in H Mart

Happier with Gretchen Rubin

33:24 min | 3 months ago

Ep. 334: Happier Podcast Book Club: Writer and Musician Michelle Zauner Talks about Family, Identity, and Food in Her Memoir Crying in H Mart

"We're all shopping for essentials online these days and now you can get rewarded for it with the bank of america. Customized cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent cashback on online shopping. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty one bank of america corporation. Hello and welcome to happier. A podcast about how to be happier. This week is our discussion for the happier. Podcast book club so we'll be talking to michelle zellner about her thought provoking beautiful memoir crying. H mart. i'm gretchen rubin. A writer who studies happiness good habits in human nature. I am in my home office. Which is a little bit noisy today. Here in new york city and joining me today from puerto rico is my sister was crowd. That's me lisbeth. Craft tv writer and producer. Usually living in la. Right now in. Puerto rico shooting fantasy island and i am very excited to talk about this excellent book yes last year. We launched our happier podcasts. Book club and today's conversation is about brilliant memoir. Cryan h mart by michelle's downer michelle's honor is known as a singer and guitarist to create dreamy indie pop under the name japanese breakfast with releases like psycho pomp soft sounds from another planet and just this year jubilee and now she's written a best selling memoir that has generated a tremendous amount of buzz ever since she published an expert in the new yorker. The official description is in this exquisite story of family food grief and endurance. Michelle downer proves herself far more than a dazzling singer. Songwriter and guitarist and heart. She tells growing up one of the few asian american kids at her school in eugene oregon struggling with her mother's particular high expectations of her of a painful adolescence of treasured months spent in her grandmother's tiny apartment in seoul where she and her mother would bond late at night over heaping plate of food as she grew moving to the east coast for college finding work in the restaurant industry and performing gigs with her fledgling band and needing the man who would become her husband. Her korean ness began to feel ever more distant. Even as she found life she wanted to live. It was her mother's diagnosis of terminal. Cancer michelle was twenty-five that forest reckoning with her identity and brought her to reclaim the gifts of taste language in history. Her mother had given her welcome michelle. Hi michelle hello. We're so excited to talk to you about crying. In h mart now most of the people listening will have read it because this is our book club episode but in case anyone. Hasn't can you explain what crying h mart means. H mart is a korean grocery chain. And where i found myself often after my mother passed away from cancer in twenty fourteen and i'm mixed race. I'm half korean have caucasian. My mother was korean and i found that cooking korean dishes and learning how to make korean. Food helps me grieve her loss and kind of remember her. The way that i wanted to and so in order to do that. I was going to h. mart often and crying as i bought those ingredients. I think that covers so brilliant. I have to say i had looked at it many times and just appreciate it just the way it looked until i saw that it made an h. So i got a particular sense of satisfaction from that once once i actually noticed it. There's chopsticks holding noodles that formative h h praise really beautiful so michelle. We got a lot of questions and observations from listeners. About things that they wanted to ask you about in this came from samantha she wrote. I just finished this book. And i haven't been able to stop thinking about it or talking about it. I'm half korean and half white and have never felt seen until this book. It made me cherish my mom so much but also reflect on the complicated relationship. I've had with her something that has been hard to accept his own because of feeling never quite korean enough and never being quite american enough either. I'm sure she's already heard from others important. Her words in her story have been to people like me. But i wanted to reiterate it and shouted run-up rooftops questions. I had when reading were and i have to say this is one easy question and one more question one is. What is your favorite korean dish. Your mom made for you. I think that the most memorable dish is her albie. Which is a korean barbecue short ribs but every time i came home from college twice a year she would always prepare cobby. Fresh rice red leaf lettuce. Some john and chimney. Which is this white radish. Kimchi in brine. It's kind of like a korean gazpacho. In news in sesame oil sesame seeds and red pepper flakes and that sort of set was always what. I came home to when i'd been eating college cafeteria weeks and weeks. And that's always the main dish that i associate with her michelle. You said that you realize now that food is how she expressed her love like knowing what you wanted and having it ready for you. Did you realize that when you were growing up or was that not until she was sick that you clued into that. I think that was something. I was slowly beginning to realize. I think a lot of people go through this experience. Where you sort of begin to return to your parents And understand the mid deeper away in your early twenties. And i think that that was. What was so heartbreaking about my experience was that she died just when things were starting to be really great between us and we were beginning to return to each other as peers. In a way we could confide in each other in this sort of new way. And i think i was in the process of beginning to realize you know i have. I'm first generation and my mom is an immigrant parent and the way that she loves me is very different from the way that i see my peers. My you know white peers being loved by their families and that was something that i came to realize much deeper. In the process of writing this book samantha. The second question was what do you think your mother would say if she listened to her music today which she'd be harsh or more accepting because of your success. I mean i think she would definitely be more accepting because i would so love to see her reaction to the response to what's happening because you know it didn't things didn't look good for me for a long time and i think that she was always just kind of trying to protect me from failure and financial reality and for her to see what has happened i think would be really astounding for her but i think that you know she is also the most brutally honest person and i think she would say the same kind of thing that she used to say about my music which was such a mom responsive she would always say. What are you saying. I can't understand when you touch on this on this issue of imagining what your mother's response would be right near the end of the book and it's a very beautiful passage So would you read it. It's at the bottom of two to thirty two to thirty three about show that you did when we got on stage. I took a moment take in the room. Even at the height of miam- visions. I had never imagined. I'd be able to play a concert in my mother's native country in the city where i was born. I wish that my mother could see me. Could be proud of the woman. i'd become the career. I built the realization of something. She worried for so long would never happen conscious that the success we experience revolved around her death. That the songs. I sang memorialized her. I wish more than anything and through all contradiction that she could either. I took a breath a new hassle. I shouted into the mike and we launched into our set. I hadn't believed in god since. I was about ten and still envisioned mr rogers when i prayed but the years that followed my mother's passing were suspiciously charmed. I had been playing in band. Since i was sixteen dreamt of succeeding as an artist practically my whole life and as an american i felt entitled to it. In spite of my mother's aggrieved for warnings. I had fought for that dream thankless lee for eight long years and only after she died things as if magically begin to happen if there was a god it seemed. My mother must've had her foot on his neck to manding. Good things come my way that if we had to be ripped apart right at our turning point just when things were really starting to get good the least god could do make a few of her daughters pipe dreams come true such beautiful passage and it must you right many times about how hard it was that she missed out on this stage. But it's wonderful to think that somehow she played a role in. Yes yeah. It's hard not to feel that way. And i loved him. Michelle in the book. You quote your mom's saying you know what i realized i just never met someone like you. And it almost seemed like once she realised. Oh you're just different from anyone. I know who you were able to sort of communicate better. Yeah i think so. I think that so much of this book is about not understanding that things that i identified as being idiosyncratically cruel parts of my mom's personality were actually so rooted in a difference in culture and a generational difference and yeah i mean. I think that that was a big part of it. As as we got to the point where we finally were able to accept that we were just very different from one another but ultimately loved each other very deeply. Well there was that one section where you thought it was sort of your mother saying we save your tears until your mother died. She was sort of a refrained she had. But you didn't realize that this was something that others said that she had heard this herself right. You thought this was just her sentiment but it turns out it was sort of more of a saying or at least a family saying yeah. I mean it's really funny. Because i've learned a lot from my on my last remaining onto her older sister that you know. She was really surprised with the way that she raised me. Because we were so similar. I had heard from a young age that my mom was kind of a rebel and a real tomboy. And i think that you just you know. That's just part of life. The circle of life is that you you learn how to love someone the way that you were loved by your parents i think and That was how her mother loved her in a same thing that she said to growing up that i'm sure she hated and in turn. I'm sure that's something that i will say to mike it eventually. You know because. I've gone through this experience and a lot of what my mom said was right you know. Will you write in the book that she used to say to you. Save ten percent of yourself and she would say even from daddy. I save and i thought that was so interesting and the fact that later you realized she saved ten percent. Different ten percents from different people from you from your father from her siblings. I think to a certain extent that we all keep things from other people and different people know different parts of ourselves but it was certainly really great advice to get from a young age because it really prepared me for life to protect yourself and not trust anyone completely and always have something to sort of fall back on. It's interesting because i was just rereading. Mrs dalloway by virginia woolf and she wrote this passage in in front of perspective. Clarissa dalloway in. It's so reminded me of what you've written in your memoir. She writes and there is a dignity and people a solitude even between husband and wife a gulf and that one must respect thought clarice Watching him open the door for one would not part with it. When self or take it against his will from one's husband without losing one's independence when self-respect something after all priceless so. It's this idea that we need to hold something back to have that independence absolutely. I think that my mom always really promoted independence in a way. I mean even. When i was growing up like she had such an interest in self care and the way that she presented herself to the world but it was never rooted in it was never. It was always for herself. She always taught me from a very early age. That beauty and self care should be things that you do for yourself or anyone else Coming up more with author. Michelle downer but i this break. If you're around in the nineties you remember hooked on phonics commercials. It's a brand new grow up with or maybe even use to learn to read and hooked on. Phonics is just as great now. I have a friend. I gave her hooked on phonics for her daughter and her daughter loves it. Because it's bright. It's engaging it has images that make children curious and have fun learning and so they learned to read more easily and in a half your way with phonics you get unlimited access to their powerful reading app along with workbooks give your child essential hands on practice to reinforce skills. They're building in the app. Plus you get storybooks written specifically to build your child's confidence. Give your child. The confidence reading brings with hooked on phonics. Visit hooked on phonics dot com slash happier and receive your first month for just one dollar. That's hooked on p. h. o. n. I see us dot com slash happier to get your first month of hooked on phonics for just one dollar hooked on phonics dot com slash happier listeners. We want to tell you about a new podcast. It's called one hundred percent with marcus. Lemonis you may know marcus. From running a fortune five hundred company and hosting one of the most successful businesses on tv in his new podcast he talks with exceptional entrepreneurs about their businesses and how they got started. It's a little bit of a masterclass a cocktail party and a sunday drive wrapped into one. Marcus asked entre preneurs if they know their numbers revenue sale gross margins but the numbers are just one part of the equation on the show. They personal he digs deeper to uncover the stories behind these companies christian. This podcast is perfect for me. Because i love listening to people talk about their businesses. I just find it fascinating. You're endlessly engaged. One hundred percent with marcus. Lomas is available on apple. Podcasts amazon music. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you think you know her better now. Michelle that you've written the book then you did when she was alive. Yeah that's a really great question and i. I really think that i was able to get a better understanding of all the major players in this book of myself of my mother. My father this woman k who came to live with us. I think that that's a really beautiful thing that writing a memoir can do is that you have to be fair as much as possible to everyone and if you're going to throw anyone under the bus you have to make sure to do it to yourself just as as much as you do to anyone else. And in order to get the full perspective and multidimensional character as you have to explore all parts of persons backstory and what makes them make the decisions and actions that they they make. And i think that that's a really wonderful thing about writing this book was i. I was able to understand where people were coming from in such a deeper way and forgive myself and other people are things that i had been upset about for a really long time listener. Meghan asked a question she wrote. I'm so curious about what her father thought of the memoir. As i've read a few interviews that they've since lost touch and i think there she's re referring to an essay that you wrote in harper's bazaar and i'll post a link to that and before you answer to say the memoir you kind of make a prediction or or you're you're already thinking about this in the memoir itself right. There was a dangerous and unspoken prospect looming that without my mother to bond us. My father and i would drift apart. I was not essential to him in the way. I knew i was to my mother and i could see that. In the aftermath there would be a struggle to coexist. There was a good chance we would come on. Moored that our family would dissolve entirely. Yeah i mean. My father is a really interesting character. He's lived a really difficult life and was always. He was always a provider for a family. I wasn't as as close to him growing up as i was to. My mother was a homemaker and had all of this time to spend with me. Yeah i mean. He took my mother's death and her illness very hard. And i think that that's pretty common. When when you're going through the caretaking processes that one person feel this need to really take a lot of the responsibility and the other person is a bit more able to fall apart or just can't quite. That here was a man who life was falling apart for you know the second or third time in his life and he had no idea how to cope with it and yeah i was really angry at him for that as a as a father and that he wasn't able to give me the support that i felt like i offered him during that time but in writing this book know it made me really understand his perspective a bit more. We don't speak. We haven't spoken really or seen each other in the last couple of years and part of that is because he lives abroad and the pandemic has made it even more difficult to try to find some common ground. But i'm not sure if it will be a forever thing. I actually didn't find out that he had read the book. I had sent it to him but he had never messaged me about reading until the new york times article came out and i found out that he had read it there and i recently did ask him what he thought of the book and his major issue is that i had. I had grown up thinking that he sold used cars. He was very upset and wanted to know that he sought new cars in. And i was like all the things you were. Take an issue with and that. I have revealed in the book that was what really bothered him. That was the only thing that he brought up. So yeah my father sold new cars in germany. She wants to be made clear. But you know he's a real open book and he'd be the first to tell you all of the things that i included in the book you know. He knows that he kind of fell off during her illness and he accepts that and he the sort of darker parts of the book are things he he knows already. And i think he didn't really take issue. It was more of this kind of like you know that was a really crucial part of his life was like he really turned around. He's an ex felon using a child and that was where he found his footing. That's where he turned his life around. And so i think that to have that not being taped. That wasn't taken seriously. I think what's really upsetting to carnage. Seem to me that you did take it seriously. If got like it was like very fair to him or within within the memoir you really were providing his perspective where he was coming from with all this. I mean i. It's has to do with you. Maybe doesn't feel fair but it fell as a reader. It felt like you as the writer were trying to paint a portrait of him. That was respectful. Everything that he'd gone through and kind of his perspective on what everyone was struggling with so didn't feel like it was like Vengeful or or you know kinda taken advantage of the fact that you're the one who's who's writing the record sometimes memoirs. You definitely get the sense that you're hearing one person's point of view this really like a very serious at time to under grapple with the complexity of the situation from all the different actors. Well thank you. That means a lot to me because it was something that was really important to me and happened very much in the revision process. I think that when i turned in my first draft at definitely read that way where it was very you know slanted in favor of course because it's my perspective it's my memoir but it certainly uninteresting and not really mature fair thing to be bias in that way or not not present. If you're going to throw someone under the bus you have to throw yourself under the bus too so it was. It's very difficult to find things. That are not flattering that you do in a moment more about crying in h mark but i this break. You decided to upgrade your outdoor deck. So you ordered the essentials. A power washer said a patio chairs and a shiny new grill. And you use your bank of america. Customized cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping and up to five point two five percent as a preferred rewards member. Which you put towards your most essential deck addition of bird feeder of library yours bank of america dot com slash more awarding copyright twenty twenty one bank of america corporation. It can be so freeing and energizing to get a fresh start you know. I get a huge boost of energy. Every time i declutter a place when i get rid of stuff in a closet when i get my inbox cleared out and is just very exciting and refreshing to feel like you're giving yourself a fresh start and if your hair is a little overdue for the same treatment it is time for the clarifying detox shampoo from way and gretchen coming back from nine weeks on location doing show. I really needed a detox shampoo to get a fresh start on my hair reset your hair and scalp with a clarifying detox shampoo from way. When you're ready to undo some damage hit the reset button with the way. Detox shampoo to t. h. e. o. u. a. i dot com and use code happier to get fifteen percent off your entire purchase that t. h. e. o. You a i dot com code happier. We love neutrogena products. I use neutrogena products. I think every day new today we want to talk about jell cream extra dry and night press serum chill cream. extra-dry has a lightweight formula that glides over skin it is non greasy it contains an essential hydrate are found naturally in the skin that to water and holds it within the skin. Surface to help hydrates skin and it's fragrance free oil free di- free and noncommittal genyk and the night press serum is clinically proven to restore and revitalize skin overnight. It's oil free suitable for all skin. Types non greasy die free alcohol free. It's a deeply nourishing serum complement skin's natural nighttime renewal process to rehydrate. While you sleep learn more at neutrogena dot com slash hydro boost one of the things. I love about the book. Michelle is how it's really kind of mitya's race it's like this story is still unfolding. It is still raw for you. You know if you wrote a right another memoir. In ten years it could again evolve and change. And i i found that immediacy of it You're so compelling thank you so much. Yeah i mean a lot especially the later chapters. A lot of was still kind of happening in real time. You know i was going to korea and writing a lot of this book and the last chapter was a later. Addition that a lot of those moments kind of happens in real time because initially. I didn't know if i was going to include anything about music or my aunt is relationship. Our bond really deepened over the last few years and so it really found its place in the book kind of in real time. And here's another question from a listener. Kelly writes how did writing the book and the previous essays support her creativity as a singer. Songwriter performer and had her music enable her voice in nonfiction writing interesting. I think that having the experience of writing albums definitely made me feel more confident about taking on a larger creative project and knowing that that was something that had done before and could potentially do again. I maybe was a little too confident at first thinking that those those things are so similar because you know writing an album may be fifteen hundred words and writing a book us closer to eighty thousand but yeah. I think that it was really gratifying. In this way that. I never anticipated fans of japanese breakfast might band will notice that there are some borrowed lines in the book. And there's a lot of borrowed content. And i think with music. You're really painting very impressionistic. Picture that can be taken in many different ways whereas with the book you have to really guide the reader to feel and and have this kind of knowledge that you need them to know you have to guide them a bit more whereas i think a listener can have more sort of varying interpretations of your work but yeah it was just great to have the room to explore a scene. You know there's a japanese breakfast song called rugged country where i saying. It's a heavy hand. Where where your death is a wedding ring. And if you don't know the context of that story that could mean quite a few things but in the book. I was able to actually explain. There is a line about having heavy hand and writing out that this heavy hand was not only a physical feeling of just wearing a ring for the first time but also it represented so much in that moment. Oh let's listen to a little bit of rugged country beautiful. I love listening to that connection. Yeah it's cool to see the echo in the book. Yeah there's a lot of instances in this book where i was able to just really show a scene in like i said before i think the biggest difference is that you get to really enter into different characters perspectives and have a walk away with a deeper understanding of different people. In this way that you don't get to do in music quite as often now michelle you took the ford tendencies quiz so please tell us. What is your tendency. I was an upholder. I am an upholder That's what i am and did that. Ring true for you that you can meet inter expectations and you're also interested in meeting out expectations. It did yes. I'm very much that type of person. I don't know if i've always been that. I guess in some ways like i it is really important for me especially in the last seven years or six or seven years set that i keep commitments to. I think it's what keeps me grounded and we always like to ask our guests for a try this at home suggestion something manageable and practical. The people can do starting tomorrow to make themselves happy or do you have anything that you would suggest. This isn't really something that i do but my husband does a lot of things that make my life really enjoyable that i would recommend other people trying but it's very boring and i don't know fit actually suits the podcast but this is a very slow boy. Okay when he when we get a carton of eggs he'll rip the top off so you can always see how many eggs that you have and you can grab them very easily. It's just one of those things that like. I'd love that. He does and makes my life really enjoyable. And it's definitely the simplest thing that you can try on in your life. And why don't we all do that. I never thought of doing that. And it is such a hassle to open a curtains one. If you run out you need three eggs and he was saying oh we have a whole carton of egg but then there's only one little lonely egg in there. I eat so many eggs from me. And i literally never occurred to me. Yes well thank you peter for that. Thank you. Peter gets a gold star michelle. It's been so great to talk to you. Yes michelle we loved the book and it was such a pleasure to get to talk to you about it. Thank you so much for having thanks michelle. We would still love to hear your impressions and reflections on this terrific memoir. Crying in h mark reaches on instagram twitter. Facebook drop us an email. At podcast gretchen. Rubin dot com as always go to the show notes at happier cast dot com slash. Three three four for everything related to this episode and remember hashtag re twenty one and twenty one. It is so fun and remember that whatever it is and wherever you are. There's always a book waiting for you. Yeah the resources for this week. Since we started the happier podcasts. More than six years ago we have seen that people really want to talk about the four tendencies framework more than three million people have taken my four tendencies squeezed find out. If they're upholders questioners applied. There's rebels there are a lot of resources on my site which features a brand new video series. I sit down with award winning journalist. Ron lieber world renowned chef carla hall personal finance expert safety and podcast jordan harbinger to talk about the fourth tendencies. Framework head to gretchen rubin dot com slash four tendencies to watch these fascinating conversations and learn how in obliged her a questioner an upholder rubble. Each have harnessed their tendency to find success in their own way. What we're reading elizabeth. What are you reading. I am listening to. Do you mind if i cancel by gerry. Janetti and i am reading conversations with james baldwin collection edited by fred stanley and darnell pratt. And that's it for this episode of top gear. We hope you enjoyed the book club. If you have any further insights or observations dot crying and h mart please let us know and if you have suggestions for the book you would like us to read next in the happier. Podcast the club. We would love to hear your suggestions. Thank you to michelle. Downer was so great to get to talk to her about frying in h march. Thanks star executive producer. Chuck reed and everyone cadence. Thirteen get in touch. Gretchen is on twitter. Accurate in ruben. And i'm at elizabeth craft our email addresses podcast gretchen rubin dot com and if you like the show it is very helpful to us if you take time to rate and review us especially if you give us those five gold stars. We love a gold star until the next week. I'm elizabeth craft and i'm gretchen ribbon. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward gretchen. I'm back in puerto rico and would you believe i'm in the same hotel room where i spent eight weeks. Mike is that kind of nice to come home or do you feel like. It's the groundhog day. That from which you cannot awake sort of both but does have a great view. So i'm not complaining but my question is. Did you get the mini fridge. This time. I have one mini fridge. I do not have to. And i'm back to. The internal debate is only going to be here. Seventeen days do. I really need a second bridge. Probably so from the onward project.

michelle Michelle downer bank of america michelle zellner Cryan h mart michelle hello mart puerto rico cobby samantha gretchen rubin marcus Mrs dalloway Clarissa dalloway lisbeth Lemonis
Ep 126: Books we wish we'd written (A conversation with author Shawn Smucker)

10 Things To Tell You

59:02 min | 3 months ago

Ep 126: Books we wish we'd written (A conversation with author Shawn Smucker)

"I'm laura tremaine and i have ten things to tell you and you have ten things to tell. This show is about connection with each other and with ourselves and the hope. Is that the things we talk about here will be fuel for better conversations and a personal awareness. This is an interactive podcast. Each episode has a prompt topic. That i want you to take to journal text to your best friend or answer on social media using the hashtag ten things to tell you. This is a show about digging deeper and sharing our stuff. I'll go first this conversation with my old friend sean. Smucker is one of my very favorites. That i've had in a while and i'm so excited to share it with you. Sean is an author and a husband and a dad and a truly all around amazing. Human being we've been friends for nearly ten years and he has been a kind funny and consistent friend sending notes of encouragement frequently. Sean is that kind of friend who does the work behind the scenes. The stuff that no one ever talks about knows about or gets credit for. I asked him on the show to talk about his latest novel called the weight of memory. A book that i read in one day and loved but our conversation actually spans all kinds of topics including whether or not we censor what our kids read. Which i thought was interesting. I got so caught up talking to sean and loving it that it took us nearly half an hour to get to the title of this episode books. We wish we'd written but we do get there. And i love talking about books. And writing with sean for my secret stuff. Subscribers secret staff is my private patriot. Podcast sean i have a whole separate conversation over there about the best books that we've read lately and i love the three nonfiction. Titles he thinks are the best of twenty twenty one so far. I'm going to let sean tell you a bit more about himself in the episode but you can find him online at sean smucker dot com. And he's on instagram. Twitter and facebook as sean smucker. Sean spelled s. h. a. w. in. Please enjoy my conversation with novelist. Sean smucker sean welcomed attempting to towel you. Laura this is awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I love seeing your face so much. We have a long long history of friendship. That will get his second. But for my general ten things to tell you listeners who are not used to hearing a man's voice on this show. Frankly okay you're not very first one but you're like in this very big minority. Will you please explain to everyone a little bit about who you are and the amazing art that you put into the world's oh well you're very kind. I'm sean. Smucker i live in stir pennsylvania with my wife my wonderful wife mile. We have six kids We just recently moved. I make a living writing. So i i write novels. I also co right and go stripe books along with other people. So i helped people write memoirs and topical books and all that sort of stuff and the weight of memory just came out a couple of weeks ago my latest novel and i read it in one day itself. Good sean. we're gonna talk about that in two seconds but you and i have been friends for a long time now like almost a decade. Can you believe it makes me feel really old. Actually when we first met you did not have quite so many children or quite so many white hairs. Let's be honest listeners. sean. And i actually met. I mean we. We probably physically met in the airport but we like met met like got to know each other on a soul spiritual level in the back of a van in sri lanka like almost ten years ago. That is not something that i can say about many of my friends laura. That's a pretty unique situation is such a unique situation. I wrote about it in my book. Show your stuff. i'll go first. I wrote about it in the chapter. Titled when did it change because we have so many laughable hilarious memories on that trip. And i feel so bonded to the people on that trip but actually it's one of those moments in time that really did change my life and i know for you and the and the other people that were in that van with us for many many hours on this week long trip to sri lanka feel the same way. It was like a really pivotal moment for me. It's amazing to me how i mean. I'm glad to know that you feel this way. Because i feel so close to those people like the whole group. I feel like they're really super close friends even though we rarely see each other. We don't talk that often. You know we exchanged some messages here and there but it's amazing to me. How spending one week like that with someone gallivanting through the foreign country side of a country on the other side of the earth. It's like such a unique experience. That i feel so bonded to all of i think like there's so many things about it. That are unique because we were in full blown adulthood and i feel like sometimes you don't have those type of moments except when you're like sixteen you know what i mean and you're like kind of pivotal trip in your life when you're young and your life is completely ahead of you and all of this and that's not where we were. I mean we were definitely adults and married and had children. I mean not all of us but like we were in adulthood. We were in our late twenties thirties and we sat in this van. That was driving around sri lanka. And i feel like we were in there for hours and hours and we showed up as writers. Were all there as bloggers and we showed up like with our shiny professional ready for an adventure cells and like by day three. We were cracked and crumbling sobbing and you suddenly spouses near there without. We didn't know each other so we didn't have best friends. We didn't have any like crutches and suddenly felt like our truest selves. Because we were in these sort of what was hard conditions for us and emotional conditions for us. Our truest sells like rose to the top. And i just think when you are in a literal closed environment with people who are seeing your most like broken makeup free shabbes south like you can't help but come away from that experience changed and then it happened to all of us at the same time. It wasn't like just one person had like their light bulb moment. It was like one by one. We fell like dominoes now. Yeah yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. I had this image of my head of that place where we were staying and the first night we were there. I remember sitting outside of the room which was like this open courtyard area and just kind of looking around and everyone's heading off to bad and like you know everyone's going into their rooms and lights are turning on and the sun is setting in sri lanka and i specifically remember sitting there and thinking. What am i doing here. This is crazy. You know literally the other side of the world with however many strangers complete strangers. I barely knew a couple of the people who were there. And i did. I wondered what what is this. All about this is this just seems so bizarre but over the next couple of days of the long drives and like you're saying just kind of being exposed to things that i had never been exposed to before as far as poverty and it was just such such a unique experience friends if you want to hear more about this trip and in fact here the audio version of a reunion that we all had earlier this winter. Those are part of my secret tape interviews. Those are part of the interviews that i did around the launch of my book because i wrote about this trip in my book. And we're all on the audio talking about what this meant to us. It's one of my favorite conversations the last year for sure you can listen to that on the secret tapes and that is part of my private podcast called secret staff. I will link to all of that in the show notes. But sean wait one second i i have to say i feel like i am not surprised when i see the success of your book and the topic of your book when i think back on that trip because i do feel like are you. Were such a stimulus to us all talking about stuff getting to know each other. I mean i remember riding in the in the bus in the van. And you know here you come along with your questions. Well what about you. Where are you from like. What do you think about this. What about this. And i'm from here. And this. And that and i think it's so interesting to me that like that's just who you are and i think that's why your book has done so well because it is who you are like. This book is who you are like ten things to tell you podcast i. I think that's such a wonderful thing that you bring to the communities that you're and the people that you're around and i do feel like that was one of the reasons that we got to know each other so well. Well thank you for saying that. You know what i love about you saying that at any real life friends who say something similar is it so validating to be for people to know that it's not like just stick in my real life. I actually and like this. Like it's not just a podcast gimmick but i really do make people in my real life talk and i ask a million questions and either drives people crazy or they come away bonded or maybe both if you were to ask jeff so anyway thank you for saying that but the point of our conversation today is the talk about you and your book and writing in general. Because you're one of my favorite writers to talk about writing with and so let's talk about your writing career in just like a big picture way. Can you tell me how you got to. You know being a novelist and being a ghost rider which i find to be fascinating in two thousand about two thousand seven two thousand eight. My aunt came to me anti an from an soft brett souls and you cannot just below that. I know this is the only reason you're friends with me. This is such an important big is the year aunt is literally anti y'all those pretzels. You can get them at the mall. You can get him at the. I loved them so much. And anti is a literal yet. And she is sean aunt and this is what's remarkable. okay now. Everyone is soaked that and keep going. Yeah so so. She approached me and said. Hey you're writer. I've had publisher an agent. Who want me to write a book. Would you consider writing some sample chapters for that and so we met a couple of times and i was an english major in school i had been doing a lot of writing graduated from college ninety nine so it had been quite a few years. You know ten years so we right. We wrote some sample chapters together. The agent loved publisher loved them. I ended up writing. A book called twist of faith about her life which is incredible story and it just kind of rolled from there. I started to get more requests from people who read her book wondering if i could help them write a book and so i probably written thirty or thirty five books for other people in the last ten years or so and when hold on when you go stri everybody knows what it goes. Trader is but. I just want to clarify that. You get no credit for those folks like you're allowed to talk about anti an for the rest of them. They they claim credit for having written as well so to be fair. Most of the books that i've done would probably be considered co writing. Because i'm usually listed somewhere not necessarily on the cover but maybe on the title page or at least in the acknowledgements. I've done very few projects. Where i'm trying to think if i've done any where the person is you know where to sign like a nondisclosure or i mean i haven't gotten to that level yet if you're talking like presidents and things like that it's a little bit different but so that's how i made a living how i continue to make a living mostly and then in two thousand and thirteen one of my co writing. Projects took me to istanbul turkey. It was actually right after our trip to sri lanka three or four months later. I flew to istanbul to help a gentleman write his memoir and he was dying of cancer. He was in stage. four He he lived for about three months after we finished working together. And i spent three months with a no sorry i spent three weeks with him and it was one of the most incredible experiences in my life. He had the saying he would pull the verse from john where it says unless a seed falls to the ground in dies remains a single seed but when it dies there's a harvest and so he he really that his death like there would be good things that came out of his death and that man i mean he was only forty nine fifty years old. I was in my early thirties at the time. And so working with him and then i came home and i think it was probably low grade depressed after sitting with him for all those weeks and just like being confronted with my own mortality. And when i got home. I thought man. I've always wanted to write a book for my kids. You know something like the line. Which wardrobe or like a book that i loved when i was a kid and so i remember specifically milen. I had four kids at that point. We were sitting around the dining room table one night and i asked him. I was like so. I'm going to write a book for you. Guys what do you think it should be about you know and so we started brainstorming and i decided to use their names for for the main characters and i self published the day the angels fell and that was my first novel after i self published it i wrote the sequel and in the meantime i picked up an agent kind of helped me with my writing work and she read the books and said hey. I don't think you should self publish right away. I think i could actually help you find a publisher so she did. She found a publisher for me. And so they published the day the angels fell and the sequel edge of over there and then my first novel for adults which was from distant stars. Why did you self publish the day. The angels fell. Was it something that you shopped and didn't get any nibbles or was it that you just wanted to do it more quickly or you wanted all the the bulk of the prophets like. There's a lot of reasons to self publish. But why did you. So i decided to self publish. I tried to find an agent. I didn't have an agent at that point when i finished and so i did. Query som agents didn't have much luck. I didn't stick it that for very long. I probably quit agents for like a couple of months so it wasn't something that i was one hundred percent committed to and then i i actually had a couple of high school friends who passed away within like three months or six months of each other one from a car crash one from cancer and i felt when those things happened. I felt like you know what i just got to get this thing out. Like i not guaranteed. I just finished writing this memoir. And now i had these friends who passed away and i i just felt like it was time to get this book out so i self published it. I used kickstarter which was awesome. You know a pre sold hundreds of copies kickstarter. Which was great. And then because i had such a positive experience self publishing that i kinda stopped pursuing traditional publication. I just thought well. This is great. You know i'll just keep going this route. Well it's funny. You say that. Because i know you're not like as into the business of online marketing world but i am like i love all the online like business podcast and all these different things i listened to and so they're not talking about novels and i know that that's you know it can be two different machines really with a lot of people. In the non-fiction world are really advocating self publishing for all the reasons that you said not just urgency around mortality necessarily but like just to get it out there. Like publishing is so slow. Traditional publishing is so slow compared to the speed of the internet. And if you're working on the internet that's what you're putting your workout in into then to self publish you know. Keep the prophets beyond your own time line if you can afford to do and most of these people can afford to do your own cover. Our outsource really professional looking cover art and you know outsource editor. 's you know everything looks great but i mean like if you can do those things. I think it's really shaking up traditional publishing. I would say not just for the profit margin but primarily for the time line. I think it's time line thing. Yeah i have a friend andy. Kumbo floyd do andy. She wrote She writes cozy mysteries. She has a book. actually. I think she has a pen. Name acf bookings. i think is her pen. Name her the first book in the series of cozy mysteries is called publishable by death and she just posted on facebook the other day that using online marketing strategies and email list that she's built up and then letting the book releasing the book for free It's been out there for a little while. But then she went back and did a free free free time period she. She had the number one book in all of kindle for free for free kindle books and had like twenty five thousand copies. Get out there. She's got twelve hundred reviews and she makes a good living self publishing books. Okay yeah. I'm glad we took that chant or mentioned that because i get a ton of dmz messages and whatever about people who want to write a book or people who want to publish and where they snag primarily. Is you know finding an agent shopping. It they don't have any kind of social media platform or newsletter lists whatever they don't have any platform and especially nonfiction. That's a no go. it's almost impossible to get a book deal without some kind of a platform unless you have like an insanely remarkable story and so people just get so discouraged by that very beginning part. And i think when i tell people you should think about self publishing 'cause i say that people all the time they feel like i'm like demoting sank but i'm just like you just don't need all those gatekeepers and the way that yours worked is and this has happened per annum a number of people if you self published and you sell enough copies someone will notice and then if you are dying to be in barnes and noble which also the you know. That's a whole different arm of the publishing industry. But i mean if that's your dream that can still happen for you to like but don't just hear the no here self publishing and think that you know that it's like printing it out at kinko's and stapling copy together like not not what it is. It's so true it's so true. I mean we really do have these. We have such deeply held feelings about self publishing and so much has changed. There is absolutely zero. Shame minute zero. Shame at you can create a book that is just as beautiful justice polished. You have to spend a little bit of money. That's where that's where sometimes also is a little bit of a hang up but the you can hire an editor you can hire cover designer and you can hire the same cover designers who are designing covers for publishers and it doesn't cost an absolute fortune so it's it's a totally valid option. My last this book The weight of memory is my current last book under contract so i know many authors actually been surprised as i speak with other published authors traditionally published authors. How many of them go back and forth. And it's just kind of this fluid journey between traditional publishing than they'll self publish some some books and then they're back again. I mean it is really a wonderful option. These days yeah. I wonder if that will be my path going forward. I have another book in the my publisher who has been wonderful to work with. I've had a great experience and it was important to me as someone who had spent a decade building a platform that i did want to be in in bookstores. And that didn't matter to me on a on a personal level. But now that i'm that i've done it and i'm looking to the next ten years of my writing career whatever. I don't know what it's gonna look. Like and i won't be surprised if i go back and forth also just for everything already talked about but i'm glad people are talking about. I want people to hear this as a as a real option and not just like a consolation prize. Kind of yes yes. This episode is sponsored by pros. I think we all know that hair is not created equal. Pros knows that too. And that's why they are committed to creating the most personalized hair care. Products on the market. Pros has a unique an in-depth hair quiz and they have given over one million consultations. That's how i got started with pros. The quiz asks more than just. What's your hair type. And i was so impressed. That pros asked what zip code. I live in and how much physical activity i engage in because those are not the questions that come to mind when thinking about a haircare quiz right but those things can really matter by analyzing over eighty five different factors pros determines a unique blend of ingredients to treat your exact concerns. There's also a review and refine feature. We can tweak your formula for any reason say you just moved like i did but instead maybe you move to a different state you can update your formula to meet the needs of your new. Climate pros is also an industry leader in clean and responsible beauty. All of their ingredients are sustainably. Sourced ethically gathered and cruelty free. They're also the first custom beauty brand to go. Carbon-neutral pros is the healthy hair regimen with your name all over it literally take your free in-depth pair consultation and get fifteen percent off your first order. Go to pros dot com slash you for fifteen percent off. That's pros p. r. o. s. e. dot com slash. You why are you and now back to the show okay. But now it's about your novel. Now we're gonna talk about your actual. Not so i as we're recording us. I am on a little staycationing. That i took a few days away at the beach. You're just came out last week. I haven't in my hands. I read it in one day. I tore through it. I hope that's a compliment and not a weird thing. Actually when people told me they read my book and one day. I was like what you were supposed to here because when i say to you and i'm saying to you because i couldn't put it down. It was such a page turner. I think you have like perfected that art a cliffhanger at the end of every chapter and i was like i stayed up way. Too late sean. I'm actually go to bed. And i stayed up way too late because i was like what is going to happen. I also did not know what to expect this book. Is i want you to explain what you think. The book is but i. I did not expect it to have like a magical isn't magical realism at the right word with ghosts. Guys next ghosts okay. That's what i mean. It's it was just so good. I had to know every thing that was going to happen. It's so satisfying by the end. Please explain to the listeners. A little bit about the premise of this book. But we do know spoiler book talk on this show. Yes lord you just made my entire like probably month maybe year I'm just so happy to hear that you enjoyed it. I'm really happy about that. So i set out with this book. I wanted to write a fairytale for adults. That was my goal. I had recently read george. Macdonald's book the light princess which is very short sorta fairytale and when he was writing back a couple of hundred years ago. He wasn't writing for kids. These days books are kind of clarified. His kid books because there there are kids in them as the main characters but he wasn't writing for kids and and so that that was kind of my. And i also i love the movie pan's labyrinth. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. And i loved what guillermo del toro did with ophelia. The main character and how he created this situation where she was living out two stories where she's living out this story in real life and she's living out a story that you're not really sure throughout the movie is her immagination. Is this really happening. And so that was. My goal was to write a fantasy for adults with this. Sort of dual almost dueling realities but instead of telling it from the girls perspective which is kind of hard these days. Because typically if if you're protagonist is you know twelve years old you're gonna get shelled. His young adult. And i didn't want this to be perceived as a young adult books so i i decided to tell it from the perspective of her grandfather. Who's raising her paul. And he receives a terminal diagnosis in the first chapter and again. I'm kind of obsessed with death in my novels. If you've read my novels. I'm obsessed with death and i'm also obsessed with memories so this whole idea that we don't really remember our lives as they actually happened. We remember them as we choose to remember them and so i put him in the situation where he's raising his granddaughter and he has to go back he has to go home to where he grew up to try and find someone who will take her in and finally then. I'll let you talk again. I wanted to write this in the second person or at least sort of a approximate second person. Because i love guilty. Add maryland robinson's book. I love how she was able to create this intimacy between her protagonist and his son has much younger son and that relationship always struck me as one. That was very interesting and sort of peculiar in literature. Is this relationship between that father and son. Because i think it's in second person so he's telling the story to his son he's not necessarily talking to the reader so that's why i had paul really to talking to his granddaughter. As he's telling the story. I liked the structure. I liked that. That was the point of view. I liked that it felt very cinematic. I like that. I could see the whole thing in my mind like as if it were a movie when they drive into town this town. He hasn't been back to forty years when they meet people from his past like. I just feel like i could see it. Just very cinematic ly- the house that they end up staying at everything and then of course. There is a twist a couple of twists toward the end. So i wanna ask you as someone who's never written a novel before g you come up with the bones of the story like get you know kind of what the twist was going to be what we were kind of working towards if you will all on around the idea that our memories are faulty. A little bit and you're getting hints of that throughout the entire book. it's not a spoiler. But did you know the overall structure of where we were gonna land or do you do that thing where you just right as you go and see where this story takes you so when i wrote the day. The angels fell my first novel. I had tried to write novels before. That and i would always get to like twenty thirty forty thousand words and then lose my way like the story would go off the rails. I'd go down a rabbit trail. And then i'd feel like this is dumb. I can't. I can't finish this so when i wrote the day. The angels fell is really determined. That was not going to happen once. I got in about twenty. Or thirty thousand words i i kinda paused and sketched out a rough outline of where i thought the story was gonna go what i thought the climax was going to be in the ending and that that worked pretty well for me so i've of taken that on now as part of my process is once the i like. I said the first twenty thousand thirty thousand words. The first third of the book. I'm kind of freewheeling getting to know the characters figuring out. I put them in a situation early but then i kind of see what happens but then once i reach a certain point i start to feel a little nervous. Like in my. Is this actually going to go somewhere. And so i'll i'll brainstorm. I'll do some free writing and figure out. What is the climax that i'm shooting for. I don't know if you can see it and obviously the listeners won't be able to see this so so once. I the current book that. I'm working on once. I got about thirty thousand words. I created this which is an outline of each of the parts in all these are scenes these characters have like family trees on the back and so i created vest once i was about a third of the way into that book I just create something physical that i can see which is kind of like the structure that i envisioned the book going through. Not so good. That's almost like a hybrid of the different advice. That i've heard or read which is like just right and see the characters will unfold where the story and then i've also heard like no. That's you need to like. Have a roadmap at the very least yeah. Yeah yeah so. I like what you're saying. It sounds like you kind of right. He start kind of getting to know these characters and see if you're interested in them and see if you want to write a story with them and then you figure out what the story is after you kind of started. I like that. I've never heard that before. that's cool. I like the road map. I mean i feel like it's fun to create that. And i really don't stick very strictly to it so you know if if i realize well okay. This character really actually wouldn't do that but i. I feel teach nine months novel writing classes and the main thing that i drafted just to get written out. You can go back and fix it you can. You can fix anything but what what can we do to give ourselves the tools to that first draft written and and i feel like for me. These are the tools that i need to. Just get that first draft town. I love that. That's so good okay now. I have a question that i really want. Spoke to answer because we're both avid readers. Were both riders. You're much better more experience writer than i am. But i just love talking books and writing with you so tell me a buck that you wished that you'd written. There are probably about a dozen that i could list off really quickly but the first one that always comes to my mind is john irving's prayer for in meany And i think partially because of the story that it is but also because of the role that it played in my life. I was a freshman in college. When i read that book and it was in one of my very first english classes. I was in english major. And this was one of my very first english classes that i took and that was the book that we read and i. I don't know i've never read anything like it. And the ending is so stunning and so perfect. It wasn't until years later that i learned that john irving did you know this. He writes the last. He writes the end of the book. I what's like the first thing that he writes is the end of the book and he works his way backward and the first sentence of the book that opening sentence is usually the last thing that he writes which i just find crazy that fight memento that is opening any. Yeah so i that book. Just find to be so compelling and the ending so beautiful so so for me that that's the one that always sort of jumps to a what about you only ears are while it's funny. My first one is also one that. I loved in college that i started discovered in college. I think there's something happening in our brains in that in those years right like from eighteen to twenty two or whatever. There's something really important happening to a person. I think whether they're college or not but just like i don't know developmentally whenever i talk to people about their life decisions or whatever i don't know their formative their favorite movie there for just feels like those years or so boring but anyway my first one is mrs dalloway by virginia woolf. I read that book it's very short. It's one day it's like a day in the life which if anyone's followed me for a long time like i love day in the life my thing and it starts with opening sentences. Mrs dalloway said she would buy the flowers herself because she's going to have a party that night and she's a very you know she's kind of a rich older woman and she has a lot of help to throw a party but she's gonna go buy the flowers herself and she goes into town and she has a spouse. She runs into someone from her past. And then there's sort of some social elements in her little town or community or whatever and it is truly just this rich old women throwing a party it just her day but it's stunning. It is so beautiful and simple and mrs dalloway herself is. I love it when they get a woman character right. Of course. Virginia woolf got a woman character right but like the con- the complications of like in some ways. She's like despicable but in other ways. She's just so human and you relate to her and the fact that she's like sort of secretly a little bit unlikable are like the same ways you feel like maybe you're unlikable united. Maybe you don't want anyone to know that. But you're reading. Like you know. And i just i loved her the way she thinks about the past and the way she is about her life choices and i just read it and i was like oh. This is a special something. And i virginia woolf and she's an amazing writer and obviously she's a her books are considered classics now. But i just have a special affection for mrs dalloway. In fact i did a study program. In england in college and part of that study was you had to take one work and really dissect it and i did mrs dalloway and so yes and so. It was amazing to steady virginia woolf in oxford and it was just like i just loved every part. It's but it just has a effect on me that book. I've read it several times since. I'm probably do another reread but when i read it i think this is the type of thing i wish i had written because i really love simple stories and simple writing so like currently right now when my favorite authors elizabeth strout she also writes in this way that is like simple on the surface which is so so much depth of meaning. But you know like her books. Don't have big plotlines. You know what. I mean just people. Yeah i love elizabeth strong. I love elizabeth strout and and to me. I love simple stories. And a lot of people don't like people don't love character-driven stories or stories without a plot a mrs dalloway. There is no plot. She's during a party. That's the party. People want like a fast paced thing or they want twists and turns or they want. And i just love slow characteristic. Did you read the hours then. I have the hours but it's been a long time. I probably since. I read it too because after that then i went on a virginia woolf rampage and red like everything you know some of those things you don't get when you're twenty three. I read to the lighthouse. Or whatever i mean what. I don't understand that when i was in my twenties like i need to reread that clearly. Yeah but anyway. I just love a simple story and sometimes i feel like wins simple stories currently when when modern simple stories come out i feel like sometimes the critique is people are like i don't get it she's just throwing a party like i don't get it and i'm like no and and so they don't get it. It's that they don't it's not like a lack of getting it it's more just like why is this toward. I could totally see you writing. A novel like that totally. What's a write a novel books. I wish i'd written. I just want to write like one day a day in the life or one characters experience on a weekend or something. I dunno whatever it is like just things very simple to me. Those are the most profound those. Those are the ones that i think about years later. Those type of books do you have another one yes I have fallen in love over the years with david. James duncan's book the brothers k Have you read it. I haven't because when it was popular. I was a snob a reader than i am. Now it's so good. I mean it hits some really great points a great points. I mean powerful point so it talks about vietnam. It's talking about baseball. It's totally based on this family. I love books that are that dig into family relationships and is it a. Is it a retelling of the brothers here muslim or what is it. There's i mean so you could probably right like a thesis paper on that you know and there would be a ton of connections. I've never actually sat down and and made them but so his three brothers. Let's see. I don't know if i can remember the names. Everett irwin peter. I think they're sort of loosely based on the three brothers in the brothers karamazov as far as their weaknesses. And you know the things that they love. So i think peter is. He goes on this sort of buddhist. He travels to india and goes on a pilgrimage in the brothers k and so he would probably relate to one of the brothers. The brothers karamazov and and so there are these connections. But the thing about the brothers k that that always left me with such a strong impression. Was that wanna spoil it. That book was one of the first books. That i've ever read where i finished it and i thought oh there's something worse than death and not that what happens at the end of the book is worse than death but there's something that like you can have this sad sad ending or sadness as part of the ending and yet a character didn't die to cause that you know like most books authors bring you to this point there's this climax somebody dies and then you're super sad and then the book end somehow with this book it was just so different in what happens to one of the characters and so i think that's one of the reasons it's also stayed with me for so many years you know it's funny. That book has been like in. My periphery like it's been on my radar for so long and i've always resisted it and i have this thing in my life. Where when there's books i resist i en- i ultimately do end up reading them. Maybe ten years later. Whatever and i'm like this is the best i've ever laura. This is exactly what happened to me. With elizabeth strout so miley red olive ketteridge. Probably very soon after it came out and it's been out what ten years eight years i don't know it's been out for a while. And as she's reading the book in bed every night she's like oh my word you have to read this book. It's amazing you have to read this and for some reason in my head. I just got this block. I don't know if it is the cover. I just thought. I'm not reading that book like that's dumb. I'm not reading the book. And i'm so stupid i mean this is my wife. She has such a wonderful taste in books. We always like the same books and she was like. Oh you gotta read this. You gotta read this just for some reason. It just thought. I'm not reading that book and about a year and a half ago maybe two years ago you know. I'm kinda moving around the house looking for something to read shuffling through the book shelves. And i see this you know olive ketteridge like whatever. I'll give it a read and it is like the most of asia book ever totally blew me away. I couldn't believe how she was able to give you all these different sides to olive. I mean how do you do that. You know with all these different characters and stories and so. I know exactly what you mean. She's so good. But i do think she has some kind of s- titling style or cover style that is is also not attractive to me and it's not every book i haven't hated every title or cover but on the whole i agree with you. I would not be attracted to elizabeth strout bucks. The first one i read was my name. Is lucy barton. And i can't even remember why. Pick that one up for some weird reason. I read it on vacation years ago and then i was like so blown away by it and now it's not even my favorite of hers but yeah that was the first one that i read and i also didn't like that cover. Yeah i in this is a. I'm not like critique or she's truly one of my berry berry very favorite writers right now like almost obsessed with her. I know what you're saying. We like this is an appeal to me. I felt like olive. Ketteridge sounded sweet. Sounded like an american girl doll. It did not sound like what i would wanna read. Because i don't like sweet or fluffier anything inside like now. So that's so interesting. This episode is also sponsored by molecule. Even though things are starting to open back up summer is in full swing and we are spending time indoors to stay cool. Have you ever really thought about the air inside of your home. What you and your family breathe. Every day how clean is it really. Incomes molecule molecule is reimagining. The future of clean air starting with the air purifier molecule has gone beyond. Revamping current technology has instead made a scientific breakthrough in air purification their core technology pico actually destroys the harmful pollutants in the air rather than just collecting them on filters. We're talking about things like viruses bacteria. mold chemicals pollen and pet dander my favorite part about molecule air purifiers. They are beautifully designed. Not only is the technology on the inside. Revolutionary but the units themselves are sleek and modern. I bought one myself. I paid my own money using the discount code to buy one of these beautiful molecule air. Purifiers i am not worried about my air purifier clashing with the decor of the room. It's in their premium materials and minimalist. Look go great. Everywhere for limited time. Save up to one hundred twenty dollars on molecule air purifiers by visiting molecule dot com and using promo code. You that's molecule in l. e. k. u. l. e. dot com and enter. Promo code. You why oh you enjoy free shipping and a thirty day at home trial with your order. Molecule dot com and enter promo code. You and now back to the show okay. Well my next books. I wish i'd written is not totally on brand for me. But i think you'll get it and that is cs lewis the screw tape letters that blows me away. I would not have picked that book for you. Like if i could have guessed a book a minute it would be probably decades before i would ever have chosen. Why because cs lewis himself. I don't know. I just see you as being more of like into literature and yeah. I don't know well so i read this tape letters probably in high school i. I think i was out of middle school. And you know. It's one demon writing to another demon. And at the time. I felt like it was. I have been reading very dark staff Horror and everything. Starting elementary school on this was when i was deeply deeply very religious. This time when i picked this up and said to me it felt like the demon to demon spiritual warfare element even incredibly fictionalized. It wasn't spiritual for like this present darkness. Or whatever i mean it was it was his demons. Like wormwood is almost almost cartoonish. It's silly in some ways but it was so dark. It's so dark in what it's talking about what it's pointing to in our psyche and like you know what we're tinted. By what sin is you know how a person thinks and hides things like. I just thought it was so clever. When i read it and and it felt like acceptable at the time when i felt like acceptable. Horror horror but generally acceptable. Yes yes yeah. And it's funny also. It's super super funny. And here's the bigger piece of all of it. That i've noticed i love a book that is structured in letters like loud. Okay and the whole thing is is you know each chapter section or whatever is letters that epistolary is that what it's called. I don't know that's that's what it's called. I think it said a pistol larry novel. I think that's what it is. You're the smart one own book. That's told in letters and i like a book not always. I wouldn't read this every time. But i just like a book that breaks it up like that like you know. There's a totally different format like daisy jones in the six which has told like a rolling stone interview. You know anything like that where you're getting the book in a different way than your typical pros. It holds attention. And i like it. Especially because a scrutiny letters. Isn't that long and not reading five hundred pages of letters. It's short right right. So i hold on rewind here for second. So i i love the book. I think it's i think it's phenomenal. Did you say you were reading horror and elementary school. Yes i started reading. Stephen king discovered him at a neighbor's house in the fourth grade. And i started reading him and i mean i can look back now a little more objectively and i didn't know what i was reading to be honest with you actually had no. It was going over my head like eighty five percent of it was going over my head but i was so attracted to his writing and being scared I have all kinds of thoughts about why i think very anxious children are attracted to scary things. Ooh interesting yeah. Well i have an interesting stephen king story as well. Because i grew up in probably very similar home as you did and very conservative and i started reading stephen king about six or seven th grade and i remember coming home one day from school and all of my stephen king books probably ten of them were on a pile on the kitchen table. Had i my heart just sake and i thought oh no and later that night. My dad was like so. Are you reading these books. Like yeah and he said something like do you think you should be and i was like no and that was it. We never talked about it again to this day. hold on. is that parenting genius. Or what is your dad. Some kind of a parenting genius yoda. I don't know a rule follower. So i think he knew that if he kind of clarified you know where the line was that i had crossed it that i would sort of scuttle back over the line. Well my parents were very conservative by. They never censored what i read so they complained that i started reading all the stark scary stuff and they really bugged them because i was a latchkey kid inside was home alone all the time and would often get scared like i would get scared at night or whatever and they would be annoyed because they'd be like it's because you're reading all these scary bucks but they never stopped me and i appreciate that i actually have not ever since my kids reading either. Now they don't. They don't read anything inappropriate. Actually but i've thought about it philosophically when that comes up which. I'm sure it will any second that i won't censor it. Actually i take that back. My son fench during cove ed. Who's he's nine right now. He got absolutely obsessed with world war two and he and his dad watched all of these world war two movies everything they could find on netflix. Or hulu or anything that we have. That was there sort of bench worthy cova thing that they did together and then he started reading books also and i felt like some of them. Were graphic i mean. World war two stories are gnarly and i had hesitations and i almost censored that because i wore stuff is to me. War stuff is scarier than horror in some way. You know what i mean. It's real but i had to return to my roots and be like no. You know this is he. He's into this for some reason. That maybe i don't get just like my parents didn't get why i was into horror. And so i mean i'm just never going to censor reading. I can't imagine any reading material in book form. You know the internet's different. Because now i'm i didn't have internet when i was young. And maybe that would have taken a different turn. If i had. You know if. I'd gotten into stephen king fan fake or if i'd gone down a rabbit hole of websites or something that would be You know i can see where this there's nuance. Here's what i'm saying. But in general. I don't love censoring reading. Yeah miley i take the same approach or very similar approach. I think what we've tried to do. Is and i talked with seth and tisch about this. Is we try to be more. Like curator's of their reading list so like we try to really figure out what they enjoy and offer them books that we think hey. This is something that you'll really like if they come to us and say you know like if my eleven year old comes to me and says you know i wanna read stephen king. I would say okay. Well it's super long. I don't know that you'll make it through. What if you read the hunger games or what if you read you know like try and steer them down certain roads but i you know it is. It is very nuanced. When you're talking about how to choose to raise your kids. I also have to remember and now we're really going down a path here. But i have to really remember what i said at the beginning of this talk about reading horror when i was young is that i didn't understand it. And people have different philosophies on this about with their kids. Whether with what movies they watch her books they read are people that are around. Whatever i mean everyone is gonna feel differently depending on their own experience. But i don't know why. I think this extra talking yesterday for the first time that i think there's some kind of value in leading them not understand it like. I still read it when i was young. Even though i didn't understand it. And why did i do. I actually don't know why i did that. But i think there's something about because i wanted to be a writer even then that there was something about the actual sentences that i couldn't get enough avs which is different than being scared by the monster you know like i was really into the words and if i'd had a parents who made me only read brady bunch type bucks. What if i wouldn't have fallen in love with words in the same way. yeah yeah. I think there's definitely something to be said for encouraging allowing kids to go in the direction they want to go when it comes to reading you know and and even in the other direction so on the opposite side of the spectrum we had Our son cade. When he was young he started reading very young and then he fell in love with the hank. The cow dog books. I don't know if you're familiar with those are not and they're just really goofy. Really funny there about this cow dog on a ranch who gets into all sorts of trouble and they're probably sixty books in the series. I mean there's you know it goes on and on and he read these books non stop. i mean. There was a point in time. Where miley and i would sit down and say okay. Do we need to forbid him for reading these books about reading anything else like there's so much in the world and he just reading the cow dog but the thing is like that gave him this love for reading whatever escape that was giving him whatever sense of security or excitement or you know it was. It was exactly what he needed at that time. And he's now a voracious reader and wants to go into publishing loves books. And i really feel like if we would have stepped in and said okay. You can't read these anymore. Stop and it was the same thing with him later on. He got into The percy jackson books. I mean he wore those things out like we have paperbacks that are literally falling apart pages falling out because he would just read them over and over and over again and after a while as a parent. Sometimes you think. okay. I want you to be well. Read like go read something else anything else but i think it just. It just instilled in him. This love and i think when you reread books as well i think you learn a lot about story that maybe learn by just reading different books all the time. I think some of those things like you're saying sentence structure some of those things i think. Settle into your subconscious when you when you reread. Yeah i think that too. And i also think you have to have faith in your kids. They'll figure it out like they're gonna end up taking a class that's going to force them. You know a high school classes gonna force them to read something else. They're going to have some peer pressure to read something else. They're just going to mature and developmentally. You know wanna do something else or be able to articulate why they love the thing that they love and both of those paths are fine. You know. I just feel like sometimes you don't give kids enough credit or we think that we are the only person to shape their path. And that's gotta nice still feel like a kid myself. Like how am i an adult. We'll john we have covered a lot of territory in this conversation. I've loved it so much is is truly been an absolute treat to talk to you about all the things today and most importantly about your new book the way of memory which is out now everyone should go get it and then spend a full day page turning on it like i did. Thank you so much for being on the shot loved having you laura. It's such a pleasure. It's always wonderful to talk to you. I'm laura tremaine and you just listened to the ten things to tell you podcast. You can find the shown and subscribe to episode emails at ten things to tell you dot com slash podcast and you can follow us on facebook and instagram at ten things. To tell you remember. This is an interactive podcast. I have ten things to tell you. And do you have ten things to tell so taking this topic to your journal or a friend or post on social media using the hashtag ten things to tell you. These episodes are meant to bring an action with others and ourselves and sparked better conversation. Thanks for listening. Now go share some.

sean sean smucker sri lanka mrs dalloway Smucker elizabeth strout Sean laura tremaine Sean smucker sean aunt milen istanbul Kumbo floyd angels john irving maryland robinson andy facebook laura
New Music Friday: Aug. 6

All Songs Considered

28:49 min | 2 months ago

New Music Friday: Aug. 6

"Arrowheads in the walls teen louis. I'm random and we're the host of through npr's history podcast and for our special series this month. The best of through lines you know if we carry on as we have been the might wind up with. Listen now to the through line. Podcasts from npr. Happy friday everyone from npr music and all songs considered. I'm robyn hilton. I'm here with wsvn's. John morrison. Hey john hey was. It's new music friday and we're doing a quick run down of the best albums out now. In august sixth we start with a new one produced by conny west. It's from a duo known as abstract mind state. Their new album is called dream still inspire good more closer to my dreams. Hey go up. The food tastes better. Stop smoking healing from the inside. Al making repairs some people. Thank most worry dishonest. God so i don't would like gravitate night nightstands graduate master's joe ramsey life. Mac mistake from the website bestself taking vacations hoping the rest held career snacks. What's ahead my spirit. From the stuff that i've said thank you about what advice about new the day. This is abstract mine state. The album is dream still inspiring. The song we're hearing from it is called. I feel good as i said. This one was produced entirely by kanye west. It's the first release on dc. Sound which i think is maybe a label his label. It's not entirely clear but there's quite a story behind abstract mine state and how this album came to be yeah. This is a very cool story. Throughout the ninety s and early two thousands abstract my state was a chicago based underground rap duo consistent of ep to hell cat and old school ice gree and they broke up about thirteen years ago. They were pretty much inactive until they got a call from gonyea who they had collaborated with back in his. Like pre fame days He was actually listening to some of their old mix tapes to try to break out of a writer's block so he flew the group out to wyoming where he was working. And you know they started working on the music for dream. Still inspire and this is you know the result of though sessions and it's it's a pleasant surprise to see a group who you know had kind of struggled in you know the indy world reemerge in this way with this record which is an incredible piece of music. Yeah i thought. I did a great job of balancing the old and the new you know has a very classic old school vibe to it you can just tell he totally respects the roots and the air that the sound comes from but he really pushes it and finesse it in the production so it feels very current. Yeah this is very much in his lane. You know kanye west somebody who came up chop in like soil samples and flip in all of this rich historical black music and putting it into a hip hop context. He's very much Descended of produces like the rizza. Pete rock dj premier. All of those folks and he could probably do stuff like this in asleep mean but the end result if feel so good lyrically. Abstract mind state is really dealing with A lot of themes of healing and perseverance. Inspiration in general. It just feels like an open window. Musically is is so good abstract mind state is the do their new album. Dreams still inspire. Thanks so much john. Thank you robin and from abstract mine state. Let's completely switch gears with another album that we're loving that's out now and august sixth. It's from the composer. Max richter it's called exiles from composer max richter in his latest album called exiles. This is just a bit of. The opening. Cut called flowers of herself. It was originally written for a ballet about virginia woolf in twenty fifteen and here to tell us what max richter is doing on exiles. music's. Tom highs inga. Hey tom hey robin great to be here with you again and i just i love that pulsating theme that. He's got going there that he just builds on an richter said that it was supposed to depict the hustle and bustle of the opening of virginia. Woolf's mrs dalloway and he also said that every bar the music has a different time signatures so if you know how to read music you realize that you know good luck being a conductor right conducting music every bar changes or even tapping your foot to it. Exactly max richter's written music for a number of ballet's over the years. Yeah it's true and this new record is anchored by another fascinating ballet score. It's called exiles and Richter says he was moved to write the work because of the migrant and refugee crisis. You know so. Many families fleeing countries especially syria. He said over the past few years and You know robin. I thought we'd just listened to the first few moments of the opening of the ballet and then the the end of it because they're so different. The ballet here begins with this simple theme in a piano that tolls like bells and you know robin richter throughout the ballet he doubles at piano with harp and cellist vibraphone just to give it different colors. That theme that tolling piano goes throughout the entire piece in an ax is kind of foundation on which richter builds and builds slowly adding more instruments of the orchestra. And i mean he really built the speeds up to the max. You really have to hear the whole thing to get the massive effect i mean if you were harsh you could you could say this is nothing. But a thirty three minute crescendo. But i think that would do the piece of great disservice because the music as you can hear it just slowly smolders quietly and slowly intensifies until finally it just bursts into flame near the end with the brass blasting in the whole orchestra ramping. Up to the sioux nami great crescendo with bass drums pounding. So let's let's let's try to get into that. And you can hear a quite a different sound for max richter i think so perfectly evokes the tragedy of the international migrant crisis right now because as we've seen with so many big problems that we face they don't happen all at once you know there's a slow bill to them and then suddenly you realize you're in a complete catastrophe or a complete crisis and this song just perfectly captures that arc. I think that's a great observation. You know it does. The piece does go from kind of this whisper to a scream in the span of half an hour and what is also interesting is then. We just heard this huge kind of explosion but then after that like a storm that's passed the music. Settles back down. And it's once again a kind of you know quote max richter bittersweet tranquility but is it you know i mean the ballet like you say it's about the migrant crisis and once people have reached a destination whether they reach at all. Is everything really going to be all right. And i think that's the musical question. Mark that richter leaves at the end of the palais and we should say something about the other pieces that he's included on this collection. Exiles that's true the ballets about half hour long but the other pieces on the record are older pieces of richter's that he has revisited and orchestrated for full symphony orchestra. Like on the nature of daylight perhaps his best known best love peace. And then there's music from the score for the film waltz with bashir and we should make mention of the orchestra here too because they play it so well it's the baltic sea philharmonic. A very young very diverse group of musicians led by christian nervy and the album from max. Richter is called exiles. Thanks so much tom. Thank you robin. We've got one more album that we wanna play before we take a quick break. It's a self titled release from the singer songwriter. Laura stevenson 'cause shocks staff. Well this is laura stevenson with their self titled album. This is the opening cut called state back to talk about this is npr music mercer. So hamer hamer's hey robin. La boylan played the full version of the song states on tuesday episode of all songs considered back in early june. But i wanted to include a bit of it here because there's just such a a really emotional range on this album is starts with the pure rage or outrage on states in evolves quite a bit. Yeah and there's quite a backstory to this record to that. I think you know makes sense of that emotional journey so a couple years ago after laura stevenson finished her last record a loved. One of hers was recovering from a traumatic experience. And so laura went to spend time with them in. There hasn't really gone into detail about what that experience was. I think just out of respect for that person's privacy. But she started that. This person someone who's really close to you in they were harmed and nearly killed so it was a really intense experience and that was the kind of circumstance out of which she wrote a bunch of the songs that make up this new album and then after that she found out she was pregnant. She recorded the album while she was pregnant so she was revisiting this very intense difficult time while she was recording the record and then she played a really wonderful tiny desk concert which i highly recommend a really wonderful performance and then she mixed and finish the album and then the pandemic hit and she gave birth to her daughter in the very early days of the pandemic so really just an intense time that this record is coming from but i think it turned into a really remarkable and beautiful and intense set of songs. Let's hear a little bit of where this record goes. This is Starting to get towards the end of the record with a song called mary this to he needs in this such a beautiful court progression there. And i love that line where she says. Rumors swirl around feet like mercury. i love that image. Yeah i think the lyrics and the imagery in the record are really rich and dense. I feel like every time. I re listened to it. I discover something new in. What laura's singing about i find a lot of resolve in her voice. Just this quiet confidence and determination. That's very reassuring. Just on that song. I shut my eyes and everything started to feel better even in its darker or most melancholy moments. This whole record just has shimmering beauty to it that i love. Yeah absolutely she just has such a sweet beautiful voice even when she's singing out something really dark and difficult like you said. There's a sense of comfort and thoughtfulness in it. Well it's a really beautiful album. The self titled release from laura stevenson. Thanks so much marisa. Thank you so much. We still have a few other albums that we wanna play for this week's new music friday but first we need to take a short break and we'll be right back support for npr and the following message. Come from better help. Offering online counseling better help therapists hesse joe shares. The unique benefits of therapy being in therapy is very intimate. Unique experience to have this other person. See you this other person acknowledge who you are and accept all of it you know and like figure out the bits and pieces that you don't want to accept to change that stuff for the better even if you're struggling with something necessarily but you just want to learn a little bit more about who you are you want to function a little bit better in your relationships with people or change the way that you approach habits doing that together with somebody else can be very powerful impactful so talk this out in process this together as to humans to get matched or the counselor and get ten percent off your first month go to better help dot com slash songs. This message comes from. Npr sponsor capital one. Ready for a new ride but not sure where to start. Try the tool designed to make car. Shopping and financing. Easier with capital one auto navigator. You can find a car and get prequalified instantly then so your real rate and monthly payment without impacting your credit score. It's so simple. You might feel like you're taking the easy way out. That's because you are capital one. What's in your wallet. Terms and conditions apply. Find out more at capital. One dot com slash auto navigator. It's new music. Friday from npr and all songs considered. I'm robin hilton. And we're doing a quick rundown of the best albums out now on august. Sixth we start the second half of the show off with a senior tamasha. She's got a new album out today. Called three thirty three thing. That i think of when i wake up. Thank you for the sun. Best cake to say. Make sense to this when the days done. It's been a good run numb and effort along run on coach. So could you touch it so swimming with me. It costs me thus stay with painful son touches morning. This is tina. Her new album is called three thirty three. And this is the title. Cut three thirty three and joining us to talk about this one christina lee hey christina i robin so tonight shea la singer. We've been following her for a minute now. This is her fifth album and her music just seems to get more and more curious and compelling with each release you know as i was listening to this record i thought you can't even really call her straight up our in b. singer so i think longtime fans at two nasha will be really excited to hear three thirty three specifically because of recalls the days when she was a bedroom producer i think nasha has always been about this free flowing variety and actually being a little bit more experimental than any genre signifier may allow and i think especially with this title cut. Oh my gosh talk about ambitious. She just plays around with the sounds and form and it's very subtle but she'll shift things here and there in ways that are slightly off pitch shift or work the vocals in weird ways sometimes there these ambient sounds that find their way into the mix so many of them liked the title cut the tracks start at one place and evolve and end up completely different songs. Honestly as much as tanaka as discography remind me at of jackson at times or britney spears. At times i thought of kate bush when i was listening to this title track in particular just because of how the song went to like very unexpected places and i think that's what people really love to hear from her. Is that your. She's just as capable of doing a bouncing. And sort of really churning out these flirty pop anthems but as a producer and somebody who has a keen ear for production in particular. I think she. It's always really exciting to hear what she had next. Tina shea is the singer. Her new album is called three thirty three. Thanks so much cristina. Thanks for having me. We still have a couple more albums that we wanna play for you but there are handful of other notable releases out today that i want to mention including barbra streisand record called. Release me too. This is a collection of rare and previously unreleased tracks of her doing songs by burt. Bac carole king. Randy newman. and a whole bunch. More release me metoo from barbra streisand the ambient and electronic artist alluvia. M- has a new album out today called virga to. There's a surprise. New album from thai siegel that came out earlier this week. He announced it and released it on. Tuesday it's called harmonize our very sense heavy solo rock album from him. Harmonize her from thai siegel. And there's a trippy new album from the more fun. Oswal trio out today called the scent at impossible. The label it as anyone thing. It's sort of a spacey ambient jazz and abstract electronic album. It's built around. These improvisations again. It's called dissent from the moritz. Von oswald trio all that music out now on august. Sixth along with the last couple of albums that we wanna play starting with a band called food sushi. Their new album is called knotts. Akashi food suci the ban food sushi. Their new album is called not success. She and the song we're hearing from it is sushi. Khazei an npr. Music's lars scotch here to talk about this one. Hey lars hey robin. This is the fourth and final installment in a series of albums that they've done All about or shaped by the different seasons and this one's for summer but i'm guessing sushi is a new band for a lot of people this week. So why don't you just. I tell us who they are. And then how. This music came together. Fuca sushi is a jazz quartet that was formed from oatley in this past year quarantine. The name itself in japanese means things that evoke memory of the season and perfectly enough through. Sushi's music is a nostalgic mix of the piano jazz. Like bill evans and ambient music and minimalism really homey and gentle to the touch but not without like an underpinning of emotion or even a little bit of subversion so they made this music all remotely on lockdown. Yeah yeah the members come from all over the country matthew sages from chicago. Chris trestle from pennsylvania. Patrick shiro she is in la and chas primerica missouri fate upload melodies ideas to dropbox and they're all multi instrumentalists so they just kinda add sub folders to different ideas full of percussion and moke and violent and wordless vocals and guitar and whatnot and then they had all get on these epoch. Zoom calls to mix it all down but it ends up having a very loosen natural. Feel to me like they're all in conversation with each other but just from a distance. I guess i wanted to ask question. Did you have a wit a mark time. This past year i guess. A tremendous amount of drinking and binge watching television fisher. How about you got the same. I kick row day by day. And i watched less. Birds come to our bird feeder in the winter and then come back in the spring. But you know. I also relied on the different seasons and the ways in which very key friendships developed during that time. And that's what this record. Particular has the culmination of these friendships. That were basically developed online. They're all friendly towards each other in one way. But but the thing that i have found particularly moving about this project is the motion of friendship within it and the members have talked about how be sushi gave them a reason to open up to one another and to encourage their art in life during one of the most isolating years of memory. And you here. That in the music food sushi is the band. And the album is called nuts takashi and lars. Let's do one more album before. I let you go and it couldn't be more different. This is from an artist. We've talked about on the show before linguistic nada. Her new album is called center. Get ready who you know. You wanna start. This is lingua ignited. The album is center. Get ready and this is the song pennsylvania furnace it's quieter more reflective moments on record that otherwise gets very heavy sometimes even terrifying. I don't know where do you start to unpack this. When lars not is kristin hater. She takes her moniker. From a sacred language developed by the tenth century mystic saint hildegard and unsurpassed albums she meshed catholic iconography and liturgical music with extreme sounds from noise at all. This album i think is about the forces that keep you stuck and a toxic relationship with a person of religion. A set of political ideas. Anything or anyone. That stunts growth in fact intends to so here. Kristen continues that theme where she mixes the sacred the profane but instead of liturgy and heavy electronics she goes for appalachian folk music and old hymns she samples the televangelist jimmy swaggart i said that pennsylvania furnaces one of the quieter maybe maybe more accessible moments on the record. I wanted to play a bit of the more intense stuff. This is just a little bit from the opening song. The order of spiritual virgins. It's not necessarily easy to here. But you mentioned how these are informed by traditional hymnals. And i i hear that in a lot of these tracks but it's hymnals and traditional fiends informs that she completely turns upside down inside out in sheet just brings forward. I think the most unsettling parts of all of those things shia showing us the stuff that was already there but she is mechanic more explicit. This is not an easy record to listen to. And i don't think linguistic nada ever intends it to be but the thing she wants to do is learn from it and she wants you to come back from it. Maybe not a different person but at least with a different perspective linguistic nada is the artist. Her new album is called center. Get ready thanks lars. I hope you can recover from this and have a good weekend. Thanks robin to a reminder that you can find a list of what we played and talked about on this week show in the podcast description for this episode. It's also on our website at npr dot org slash all songs. That's where you can also find a playlist of all the tracks featured along with a whole bunch of other songs came out this week. You can also find it by searching for. Npr's new music. Friday playlist in spotify and apple music and as always the best way to keep up with the latest from npr. Music is with our weekly newsletter. You can sign up for it at npr dot org music newsletter and for npr music and all songs considered. I'm robyn hilton. Have a great weekend be well and treat yourself to lots of music. This message comes from. Npr sponsor the npr wine club bringing the wine world to people's homes with stories on each bottle and winds inspired by npr. Shows like weekend edition merlo available to adults twenty one years or older at npr wine. Club dot org.

max richter laura stevenson npr robin richter robyn hilton wsvn conny west joe ramsey gonyea kanye west Tom highs inga mrs dalloway robin richter Richter baltic sea philharmonic christian nervy hamer hamer La boylan John morrison
Debut Writers: Jo Hamya & Anna Glendenning

VINTAGE Podcast

35:16 min | 4 months ago

Debut Writers: Jo Hamya & Anna Glendenning

"Will realize was. I think i had to hoodwink myself into writing this book. Because if i'd said to myself by his widow we're going to look at beside detached from an so frightened by that would mean and the mechanics of doing that the time and space that required to do say so it's just seems so impossible. I kinda managed to get those means. But they were so tenable that say pretend. I wasn't writing it because then the pressure will be too much you know hello and welcome back to the vintage books podcast. I'm covering coal. And today i'm excited to introduce two of our debut writers to you joe. Ham author of three rooms and anna glendenning author of an experiment in leisure. Both novels present ten deport traits of youth and offer pissing insights into the political cultural and economic faultlines dividing britain. Today joe us. Three rooms begins with the protagonist. A young woman moving to university accommodation and starting a job as a research assistant at oxford here living and working in the spaces that have birth the country's leaders she's both insider and outsider and she simply cannot shake the feeling that real life is happening elsewhere. The second book that were talking about today is anna. Glendening's an experiment in leisure which follows the story of grace who swapped west yorkshire. A london sent carefully edited and with a cambridge degree under her belt. But the fantasy of the life that she lives is full of contradictions. It's a great pleasure to introduce these two new writers from vintage so sit back. Relax and enjoy joe. It's lovely to speak to you first of all. Can you give everyone a flavor of your book. The world that it set in the characters their own journeys Three rooms trucks annarita. Who's living in material. Circumstances decline over three parts of the novel. She starts out as a research assistant in oxford on a six contract and a good enough wage. That means she can rent accommodation and then we moved to her working as a copy editor in london for glossy society magazine where the low wage casual contract that she's on mean she's forced to couch surf and the book and her unemployed on a train back to her parents house not quite short de next an underpinning all of that is the new cycle between eighteen and twenty nine thousand nine hundred pertain to domestic rights. In england things like brexit phase. One of the grenfell tower fire inquiry and royston visible and invisible us and all of those things are transmitted through various social media digital technology. So that the book is kind of constantly informed by the experience of looking at once phone nor checking twitter checking instagram. Sort of as you would in real life the whole point. I guess it's kind of question whether certain ideals for how life should be that promoted but not necessarily made possible by various states structures things like the nuclear family or nine to five job or home ownership whether that's still viable ideals to aspire to an increasingly digitize gig economy for generation like mine and successive ones. And it's very real rooted in many of our experiences if we are obsessed with news and almost to the point that don't really need to be obsessed with these really deep because a lot of those stories and a lot of those elements that you describe Almost full they way into our lives because there was such big topics. Weren't they in some way or another. You ended up reading about them. You or you heard about the me. Heard about grenfell was nonstop news about brexit and so on what motivated you to write the book. Well i mean as you say that those. The pervasiveness to that new cycle. At the time. I think i i thought of writing something like it was slightly different at the beginning around the end of may which is when theresa may had step down as prime minister and there was suddenly this kind of influx of Have neoconservative figures in the running for prime minister people that actually funnily enough now that i think it. You don't hear very often jeremy. Hunt michael gov but there was the kind of obsessive nece to the way that that news was consumed conservative party leadership twenty thousand and subsequent general election and brexit. Which at the time was kind of what the pandemic is now. And the way that i ingested most of it was through a kind of desperation from from my own cohort on twitter about what the election of any of those men would mean for the material circumstances evolve future that was the point where momentum was in what we now know kind of. It's not dying throes. But it was sort of the last days of jeremy corbyn and i just remembered the kind of ingesting all of this and at the time i was working at a glossy society magazine and i was living on. I remember reading all of this and seeing people on twitter my age kind of questioning what this would mean for our future but then looking at people sort of a decade older than me writing about the same news from not very dissimilar circumstances also on casual contracts or sort of drifting on freelance jobs. Living in a house full of strangers. London often forces you to do a just sort of seem to be the tone and tenor of the time. I didn't think i could have written anything different. What did you want readers to feel from your book. I suppose if anyone could recognize any of that. I life or even sort of a big time but the state of the nation as it was twenty. Eight thousand nine hundred thousand nine hundred and the book is true. Then i'd be very happy with that. But i wouldn't prescribe any particular feeling to anyone reading it and when did you finish writing the book. I finished it almost a year ago. I finished it in early march last year. So roy on the cusp of the pandemic. The i finished racing. And then i took a week. I really regret this. I took a week to sort of let my brain drain out. Because i thought the afterwards i'd kind of be able to go and i have fun because i've been starting one spot satin site doing nothing. Funnily enough which was what ended up happening for the foreseeable future I wish i'd taken that week to sort of go out and get lavishly drunk. And don't i didn't. I thought in bed kind of but that's still felt really gratifying Reading the mentors finishing that manuscript tastic. I know so many people are going to love. This book I really do and because it's it's captivating the the voice the tone is just so riveting for for me. And i hope that you know redes- kind of experience that as well. Now what stage you. Us in your writing journey than joe embracing second book. Now it's it's still very early on but it's really interesting to kind of pick couch formerly what i would accept any kind of distinct writing voice for myself. And what happens to be a kind of verbal tic that i might rely on to keep pros flowing so i've noticed that i tend to pile on a lot of nouns my writing i then have to kind of judiciously call or leave a lot of kind of floating subordinate clauses around the then have to link up something so i think i'm still at the stage where i'm kind of trying to give myself as as much of a rigorous formal training for fiction. I find it a lot. Easier to write non-fiction. And i think once the second book it's done Probably lee fiction line for awhile and and turned to writing more nonfiction. I feel much more comfortable in an academic background definitely. That's where my training was. So i'll finish this spoken. I think i'll give myself a break. Fit two or three as it feels. Like if i tried to attempt know third novel straight after it would get monotonous and style. I'm intrigued about you. Perhaps considering going back to nonfiction dist give us a little insight into your academic life and what you might be considering about journal articles and so on i really short lived careers that journalists before the pandemic of a lot of it was done through freelancing and so sort of around the end of march i received the slew of peace sixty s from from places that could no longer afford to to keep me but i i really enjoyed but reviewing the critical writing that i've done i would really hope that by the end of sierra managed to apply for coach. T. a. a for most of my may and a lot of my bachelor's sort of spent time updating literary and cultural theory from the twentieth century to twenty first century context so that we could so that find a language to talk more rigorously about how things like cultural worth and value. Proportion don't tonette sidelight keep on doing that Recently i've been thinking about maybe writing some social of history of women's non writing nonfiction brother an essay. I think that's been associated trend. That started around maybe twenty seventeen for literary nonfiction essay collections. From people like tolentino or sadie. Smith sykes more recently not stretches back to join gideon or i'd like to kind of trace that history and little bit more closely fantastic so you've got some plans laid out kind of you know. Obviously those plans contain. What have you. But it's great to hear that you've got ideas beyond even the the noble you're writing now in terms of fiction novels other any recommendations that you might have our readers any of the writers who inspired you more recently to to get home this fiction writing journey of yours. I have real trouble picking favorites. The was a book that i read continuously while i was rushing three rooms and a part of its title to its hundred sullivan's three poems published by faber and won the prize in two thousand eighteen. I think and that's a really remarkable piece of work. Social collage of a lot of twentieth century and even earlier writing a lot of influences from auburn and locking also speaks really brilliantly about the integration of various technology sullivan talks more about how facebook and computers might be used personal life in office space. Sonal sense we've kind of moved on since then but it's still a really be useful piece of work and then i've got a really runs in castle ogre folks popping into my head right now. I spent the summer as often as i could in the bush library. Picking through pull gilroy between camps. That book argues for kind of post-racial humanism it was published in two thousand. So it's the language it uses kind of outdated now when it could definitely by kind of very rigorous critical for she lighted poss- twenty years. But i think it's still full of incredible foresight. I've just read rebecca watson's little scratch. I think that's published last week. Also by faber and it was phenomenal. It's sort of reminds me of mrs dalloway away. It looks sick former over the course of a day but really stretches that process out second by second in a remarkable ways that something is kind of mundane as plugging service kind of infused. With this sense of purpose. I thought oh so good. I really random vector occurring to me. How many of our now. Three i thought. What a perfect number. Fulsome brilliant suggestions. Joe thank you so very much for your time. It has been superb hearing more about the book and your writing journey and hope to meet you again. Honor lovely to have you on the podcast. Really excited about your book and experiment of alasia. Can you give us a flavor of what the book is all about. Yes i can thank you very much. Haven't made lovely to be here. Mitch pandemic participate vogler deck sire as resolve alleged. Yes sir experiment. In leisure i started out. I maybe stop this high. So because i am fundamentally a bit of a not lazy book if a copycat is actually copied from a title of a book that came out in nineteen fifty seven called an experiment in spy. Psych like a lesser known. Psychoanalysts called marion milner and got really into. She wrote this book on a companion piece called a life phones. I have idea was that she'd saw keep very detailed. diaries of everyday life and just about the kind of sensuous pledges enticed and things that she lied on she'd use that as a basis of working out if she is. I really like this. Because i've got very refined taste. I've managed to somehow come from a place where the solicitation office is that. I have things in my life. I have changed past life for me. On my to grace doc grayson from from of tells the tale of classes all change in in them education in Tasted refined and i thought this is a new way intimate thinking about kind of what happened. What got me here. how did i what am i. What was i hungry fall. What tastes half in in that bloke. I experiment leisure is a method is a method for thinking about a man. I remember opening in so talking about on. I'm seemed to be thinking about those new shoes. It's like. I went to the shoe shop. She sosa went to the shoe shop. And i tried these shoes. I really regret not buying them. Just thinking about on richie's online that's me. I can see myself up. So that was a very m as a kind of experiment myself as a in writing. So i'm just gonna take Descriptions things that i like but then software kyle what i may have made me feel and passionately and then i realized that i could actually just have saying a character who has a similar Who comes from kind of quote unquote wet can class background in the north and finds that the of life that she wants to build for herself isn't really possible. App save necessarily has to move to london says kind of regional sexual inequality becomes very dislocated necessarily say than wicks out. How did she get here why she doing. Is it. time to Times go where is home. That's my very long winded way of saying saying it out but i just loved that i really love that title. L. of the idea that because she's in early twenties. And i found it really liberated to think your life and you twenties is being an experiment unite because his sandwich pressure especially so if a millennial millennials think can also generations to i think to have it down it saw it beyond beyond beyond it game. It's not really hard work you for me. It's really interesting. It doesn't work for everybody and the times that we live in right now. It's impossible for this. I have our game thought it in any way shape or form an obvious since the pandemic the world's been turned upside down. But you know there's so many different forces against people that it's hard to have a life sorted the new wash. should we want what. What is this pressure. come from. I'm really interested to know. Then what drove you to write this book as well as obviously being influenced by The book of the same name ninety seven. What what drove you. What motivated you will realize. I think i might have to hold wing myself into right miss book because if i said to myself Viable beside detached from and so frightened. By what that would mean and they mechanics of doing that. The time and space that required to do say so say just seems so impossible. I kind of manage to get those means but they were so tenable that i have to pretend it was just kind of pretend i wasn't writing it because then the pressure will be too much. So i what motivated me was fat because tapped into the nfl. But why not. Why not may why. Why couldn't i write it. Why couldn't make it so. Why can't a daydream in public. Making served producer in the world. And thomas have a look can have a try have ac- put in all. That said the may today shin was estimates invasion. Is that i asked to sound quite is caught famiglia salary but it's true i mean i didn't. I didn't reach. Nov encourages lever office. The browns as of like what. What sorry alec fat from light tonight geneticist. Not a surprise comes up like costa mind. But this midland's this midland's think. Like wherever my leah dense see now. My auction lasted. I'm that i could find. Olive bennett may be rich to talk. I remember reading red lindsay hanley's respectable. It just blew my mind in the fall. We can davis his hair. Analysis is non-fiction analysis of the cost of self crossing the class. Divide all that costs of sexual mobility emotionally. What you do if you educate you. Put us rations in a pass in. Educate them in them than what they're gonna do with education unite because that between two wells and two sets valleys systems and cepa came. I became just so feeling of unease fading of dislocation and assault of of being on are invisible in some way then became an might sedation to right. And also because i- brexit actually brexit was a big thing for me because i realized that this fading of bad days in this kind of metropolitan life the i'd Bull insane aachen date. Yeah london's london town. Yeah gray and i got here in copley afa bid so i am. I wanted to carry on it to yourself to the people to to the people. I know little people. I grew up in flight my the suit sieve. Then not my character book not live actual light and not my family. I just. i'm playing but you know. There were traces of reality in there. And i thought i didn't see people. Light is being represented unless it's of comedy of manners unless they're being taken up taking down. I'm like hate down come on. let's oakland let's let's say yet whoops none of in granda got to say what smokes my mom got to say so i create these scarring To say look and light what you stumped forest great and let's not caricatures like levy or remain. Aol let's see we can talk is known political platform. But it was it was just very it. Crystallize something for me and i thought what have about info here. Because i can see why people would say would won't be inclined inclined towards the remain feeling and i can see why people would would want half in home and the talian pleasures income the comforts of home and failings of community in being embedded copy of things. It's really interesting. You know what you say will resonate with so many listeners. And readers of your book more. Find because obviously dive in okay. The characters are so very. The dialogue is so vivid. You're quite literally taken on those inverted commas journey. You're taken on a journey through locations down streets and walking along the road with. I feel like. I'm walking right next to every room that she's in every interaction. That happens is so vivid anna. Anna's a pace the speed with which everything happens with which i find is just it's disrupting. It's like you're on this journey. E can't get off this whole wheel and so you mentioned journey quite literally journey and location all very strong dominate in the book. And and like you said the the emotional cost almost of being looking class in the north gung to london. Trying to make it trying to do the best that you can the so much of a swirl of everything in the book did you do you think fulfill what you originally set out with the book to kind of cover these areas. Was there a deliberate nature around what you want to tell. The reader through grace rarely plays that you enjoy alike will enjoy Old raid i kind of journeys the whereas in a because i wanted to rise thing that would just if you run if you stuck in on a train in us before this coverage situations hit hit Spent a lotta time on trains. Spent time on him. Like not like the spent a lot of time at king's cross in some congress moving between sheffield leeds in the locations of my book. M just kind of is it. Says she moves just to give a failing Finder in london. She's she's she's between these places as she does spend a lot time buying cafes in the in the station concourses needing away but chicago awake is the key to longer. She needs to get the train Going but that was my that was kind of wildlife. This is the kind of peace and quiet that you get when he caught on the. It's now the train Else can you day that. there's japanese. Yeah that was that was mine. Tension was to bring that failing around of deep place of of deep feeling of what these places alike. Because that's so easy caricatured if you don't go deep and you don't go into the sensory Around that i guess. I wanted to write a so of companion for for radar to say his israeli absorbing quite frenetic intense character. The if you ask for two hours because this flooding lying eat have have a to hype. Huge yeah i suppose. It's my mind relationship in grace's relationship of material wealth disraeli. Important because i do is about to me. It's kind of again. It's expletive is the caricature of the millennial who spends all that money on avacado unite while the kind of church minson the why we crucify For the tastes that they have not why. Why does this person is passing. Spend all that spy usable money on a massive t. Beore skyboxes Mental and i kind of think actually is not all we have we dislike. We like to just make nice little worlds for ourselves. Pleasures and comforts. And i think so. I want a book that was foolish is so stupid and objects and that's important to me as well because it becomes a kind. That's the kind of grace. Is this expensive education. Spain cambridge is all alleged. But she's so. She doesn't have a language to talk to the people she's left. She's laughed and she's left apart of a south behind and she's lost a language and she needs to get back but she finds a language those objects so she realizes the way to talk to assist the character mover characterised by buying by moma kosta coffee mafia. No orrin Hafer if the with the g. h. days. Not methodical giving love fruity sensuous things finding languages because not makes me think about that. Kind of pablo raced situation politically. In think of a way we can talk to each event with with stuff with touch and feeling. Yeah you know in any talking about finding ways to to speak to one another. It feels so important that we have to find a way to navigate and find the best language to use because that field like that. He's a route to being more peaceful about the the world's that we inhabit. And because if you don't find that language then it's your in a constant state of unease. I think a and it feels very much like you know. Grace's founded how has found it hard to reconcile like you say had different lives life at home and life inland. And i can imagine caught you on their thorough so many hundreds and thousands of people in this country who probably experienced that because of this desire for social mobility this need for social mobility right as moving around leaving the job in having to go. Yeah got to go to london earn. And what have you. It's it's a. I think when readers get hold of your book there's gonna be a lot of people just sitting back going. Gosh this is so night. What's happened to me. These people are going to resonate with it. Obviously you say obviously that the book was inspired by an original from nineteen thirty seven. What other author's books at the moment have inspired you any recommendations you can give to us. Yeah i'm reading of your spock. The mainland i just think she's she's it's not particularly original recommendation. But i find her because books. Quite shaw hilarious. Unlike they're just make me laugh so of light relief in lockdown. Also reading they It's paul try. If eighty eighty seven trek by american. Might call jean stein a just took loss of. It's a documentary in the form of a book. I am this is just layers of oil snippets of what she was liked by people that she knew when she's just from this incredibly eccentric family and not just is apart and portrait of a woman. Who's kind of he. Kind of didn't get away. Didn't get free twenties was tripled Had such tabby to fool kind of in her talent of horizon in how she kinda got chewed up by da system in could could have made her own on his arm vicious in interesting and it's gorgeous because he just all these voices on it so unusually structured. So i read it like i is being my favorite book this year. Vintage rook say e d by jeans. Sign and mural spock and stuart hall familiar stranger that there's a video on youtube for free. The prism of intellectual life is light. It's free in just. I've never felt. I saw can kind of intellectual dislocation all sorts of different types of dislocations. And how we can use our education. Take our personal experience. The stand there in political nustar just castellina. Aina thank you so so much. It's been brilliant spending time with you. Thanks so much thank you. Thank you for listening to the vintage books podcast. We hope you enjoyed hearing about these. Two exciting new debut voices. You can find out more about three rooms by johann and an experiment in leisure by anna glendenning in the episode description. Now do you have any other debut novels to recommend to us. We would to hear from you. You can let us know by tagging us at vintage books on twitter or instagram. And whatever you do please keep reading boldly and thinking differently until next time

glossy society magazine london anna glendenning joe us Glendening grenfell tower joe Hunt michael gov twitter oxford Smith sykes faber bush library rebecca watson jeremy corbyn mrs dalloway Mitch pandemic vogler deck grenfell marion milner
It's About Hot Chicks

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

39:06 min | 3 months ago

It's About Hot Chicks

"Have you heard of click up. It's the fastest growing productivity tool that saving people one day a week by bringing all your work into one place loved by two hundred thousand plus teams in companies like uber and web flow click up brings your tasks docs goals chat and more into one place to help you get more done. Click up is free forever. So sign up today at click up dot com slash iheart broadcasting live from the abraham lincoln radio studio. The george washington broadcast center. Jack armstrong and joe getty stronger armstrong and getty promise studio see all season. Your it is a dimly lit room within the bowels of the armstrong and getty communications compound and the kickoff brand-new week. A day. late. We're under the tutelage of our general manager boss jack armstrong and getty tanned rested and ready back and better than ever honorary honorary general manager. Perhaps the greatest man in the history of mankind joey chestnut we'll have to listen to the highlight because he set a new world record hot dog eating. How can he be getting better at that as he gets older like. Lebron james with eating hot dogs I walked two fingers and lost an eye. So if you've been keeping track over the years when we come back over fourth of july. I've lost thirty. Seven is about ninety figure but we all over the years. Thank goodness for the finger donor program in your county. Big finish michael parties. You didn't come to the party. Don't bother knocking on my door. A high standard. I think this is the first fourth july in my life that i did not set off any fireworks of any kind of my own purchased fireworks against get the first time ever to tinder-dry No just we traveled when we're flying around and go in various places and it just wasn't home so i don't think i've ever travelled on fourth of july in my entire life. It's always seemed like a home holiday for me so We one of our stop. So we watched the fireworks and san diego which i'd never done from like mark by the water and that is the best fireworks display in america. And if you have not been in checked it out make that a high priority to do so because it was freaking awesome and the setting is just amazing. Yeah it's great except for what was that like four or five years ago when all the fireworks went off. Yeah whoops and it was a mistake but we learned from it so we went out on a friend dave's bow too early and we were out in the water and we watch the navy seals do their thing where they jump with the american flags and stuff like that and it very very cool and very patriotic and lots of lots of american flags and lots of patriotic music and all that sort of stuff and cheering our soldiers in the and is so different from where i live and it just and it just you know just reminded me there are plenty of pockets if not half or more of the country where patriotism and us flag is still okay as opposed to you know if you open up the washington post and the new york times on sunday it was all op eds about the symbol that the national anthem. Should we really be singing. That the american flag is it time for a new flag. I mean it was just all that sort of stuff right in your you know your major media of Just kind of shrinking shriveling cringing embarrassed to be a sort of thing and then to be around people who are cheering. You know Soldiers who are trained to kill others with american flags was awesome. Yeah not just people. But droves of people counties full hundred millions of people well as we know the media looks at the. The america haters through the telescope. The normal way you use a telescope then it flips it around to look at those are patriotic and love. American it minimizes. It turns it into a tiny fraction of what it was as usual. It's like here. We were talking before we went on vacation. There are a number of topics were the realities wildly different than than the media. Escape reality right so now like the washington post what was the most recent. Oh so mother's day. So if i'm gonna read op it's in the washington post it's going to be about. Should we really call mother's day. It's birthing what do they call breathing. People birthing people and articles about how it's really wrong the patriarchal family and the family structure is wrong and that sort of stuff for mother's day and get the fourth of july. It's all about how the the flag in the national anthem wrong. And it's just a some of our leading a news outlets are so out of step with everything is just amazing. That didn't go on when i was a kid. I consider myself a pitiful wordsmith a crafter of the english language. But i just. I hate you. You suck is all i can come up with. I just use sucks. So bad. I hate you i hate you. I hate you use suck. Yes this beautiful incredible experiment and self-governance has fallen short of its its goals in his imperfect. Of course it is but man were trying like crazy and please do site for me. The valhalla the the wonderland utopia where they're getting it. Exactly right please. You have the floor so great. Britain is opening up today. England is opening up. They've been wearing masks inside and out all this time. They're war wars all roofer. So they're they're ending their mask mandate among other things with cases hospitalizations and dead's all still rising. Oh boy they're they're pulling back because They just feel like it's time and they gotta get their economy going at some point so now. Correct me if i'm wrong. The the rise is at levels. That are a tiny fraction the height of the thing. Oh yeah but it is concerning not whistling past the graveyard so you're not still talking about the delta via variant oreo. Wow are you yesterday's news. It's all about the lambda variant. What the lambda variant. We skip right over like what's the g. one gamma fears there. Is that lamb dacoven nineteen variant from peru. Maybe resistant to vaccines now. That sounds like click baked to me. Yeah i did some research on it. There's it's like when other variants have come on the scene. They don't have proof that it's not Right so they have to go with could be which is a little misleading right. No proof that squirrels don't carry the covert nineteen and could kill your family right but it is emerged in peru last august and is now being blamed for the country having the highest pandemic death rate in the entire world definitely spreads faster than any of the other variants whether or not it's Kills more people. Well does kilborn people by secret faster. But whether or not a individually if you get it if it's worse or if it's resistant to the vaccine that is certainly not known at this point but they do have the highest death rate in the world and it is spread to thirty other countries already. So that is that is the one we got to keep an eye on the lambda variants. One thing that's indisputable is there could be another nasty chapter in this. I don't think anybody knows. I read that and i thought boy did we did. I did we did. We all just entail a little early before the the variant that spreads around the world. Lightning fast that you can't stop with the vaccine. It's i hope not. Partly that is reading some old Literature as reading. Mrs dalloway by virginia woolf which was right after the nineteen eighteen pandemic so that gets reference number time and that had hit the world then receded along pretty rough. Wasn't it then. It came back with a vengeance and killed sixty million people. Were what what are you saying. Perhaps we exhaled too long. But jack don't we have to exile before we inhale again to hold our breath. He says as if that somehow wise Your your headline of the day by the way. We can't bury this lead. Unexpected penis royals koreatown. Stay with us. live team. Coverage which koreatown la. Okay yeah well. It could happen. In any koreatown. Around america the threat is real. Stay with us. One more thing on the pandemic there was a guy who really really didn't wanna put on his mask yesterday getting on the plane and i thought oh man. I'm going to be one of those planes. I'm going gonna be. I might be my youtube video. It might be for my phone. That makes i mean he was. Angry and large dude was huge. I'm guests in six eight three bills easy and angry about being told to put on his mask and he was on the phone with somebody and yellen about An actually gave him the thumbs up at one point. Oh boy encouraging helping he was his last guy on the plane and several people had told him to put his mask on and he just ignored him and he was on the phone loudly on purpose so everybody can hear him about. How stupid was maskey. Said they're all about the science when they made us put the masks on but apparently signs doesn't matter now that the now. And that's what i gave him the thumbs. I said i want you dude. He said you're with miss with you. All the i had my mask on fellow. Boy wanna get kicked off the plane. But i thought this this guy is. This is going to be one of those eight stewardesses right around his legs trying to bring him down sort of situation but he he come down he wanted to ask. You weren't like the chin diaper as they call it on south park. He didn't put it up over his nose or mouth but he kind of did it enough. He did it enough that he didn't have paid off the plane and he did it enough. That the stewardesses were afraid of him could claim in own minds right. they've gotten him to comply. That's an uncompromised overview. Yeah really is because we're going to need you to getting back to the courier town. Sketch a story rather sir. You need to cover your genitals. How about i pull my pants up to my knees so you can claim. He put his pants on yet. I still show my genital. All right we can agree on jack. Armstrong joe getty on this tuesday july. Sixth we do have a lot of news to catch up on its ear. Twenty twenty one or armstrong and getting. We approve of this program. Let's begin the show officially now according to fcc rules in rags here we go at mark. I didn't know what to do at the time. There's a lot of damage to their facility. So that explosion in los angeles so they come. Is that what happened there michael. They confiscated a whole bunch of explosives from a guy and as they were trying to set them off eight. I heard a bunch of people dan. we're gonna have a controlled explosion of the fireworks. No one's endanger well turns out. There were more than they thought are more powerful than the copper stocks more on that story later. How does mail look. Oh it's outstanding. Really good really. Good folks have been working over vacation unlike me. Yeah yeah we have a lot to catch up on. I've notes go and clear back to last. No not last. We're off law last week. They the week and a half ago. So i have nothing. I've been blind drunk for ten days. I don't even know what day it is fantastic. I'm working one. I'd with only that'll all that on the way. Our is four and five two nine five k. ftc. The armstrong and getty show saul ben biden bombed syria and iraq. A little bit over the weekend last week while we were gone Iran was mounting drone attacks against our troops and allies. So we did obama. And i gotta believe at least a little of it was to To let the good The bad people have afghanistan now. And we're still in that region and can still bomb people whenever we feel like it. If you're wondering we'll talk more about afghanistan coming up here in a little bit as that We pulled out of the big air force base. We're leaving having gotten all the translators out yet. That story goes on and the plan sounds awful week to me but we can discuss that. Lengthen a bit that among other topics including our headline story. Unexpected royals koreatown. Stay with us mail back. Oh right. Oh i'm sorry. She's format interrupted the format after twenty years. I know i know. I know i just i. Here's your freedom. Loving quotas going back to the always productive well of thomas. Well the feeling that the government should do something has seldom been based on a comparison of what actually happens when government does and when it does not do something so clearly true and why. It's not more disgust. I don't know why why we never weigh in on any of these projects after they've been for a while and say hey. How did that work. Nobody ever does that. It's like simpson's idiotic sitcom where every time. The wife says do something. The husband punches somebody in the face but she just keep saying do something because it's the catchphrase but it never ends well speaking of soul. I just absolutely love this quote racists care whether someone black is married or unmarried if not then why married. The blacks escape poverty so much. More often than other blacks. If racism is the main reason for black poverty. He asks interesting question on the sole lesson. That's yeah mailbag. This is hailey anonymous commenting on a story. We did just before we took vacation. That the city of san francisco i think was seattle. Has this enormous budget for porta-pottys for bums junkies and it costs them. One hundred thousand dollars a year for reporter body. Well alien writes. I'm a public schoolteacher. I'm paid half of that sum. Not half as valuables a stinky dirty porta potty. Wow tales from the world of homeless coming up later. let's see. here's a note from chris. This reminds me this meam when bill maher says you know better than people who past you just came later. Newer generations always think they're smarter than the previous. And here's a here's the meam if you think you're smarter than the previous generations fifty years ago your vehicles manual told you how to adjust vows. Today it reminds new not to drink the fluid in the battery. Now that's funny true. It is true. Yeah oh boy was example of that. I heard just last night. Some some some crazy thing like that but yeah the But that's a lawyer thing sure. Yeah that's that's true. That is a good point. Although young people are uniformly stupid we can all agree on that. Know i kid. I actually just had a wonderful visit among the many family coming and going through our house over the last week or so little was home for a few days. My twenty one year old. Oh man so great to see her. She's my buddy. Anyway moving along yesterday. July fourth we went to seaworld san antonio right san antonio dave to do if you rides come home by two to a seaworld to watch them abuse killer sharks for our entertainment according to pto killer whales killer. Whales have killer whales anymore anyway. Yeah you're erica. Absolutely nearly every man woman and child was unmasked. Tens of thousands. Maybe one hundred thousand outside of park employees. I'd say under one hundred people were marrying masks. People are done with restrictions. He writes that da paolo between covert vaccination immunity from natural infection. We're likely not terribly far from her herd immunity most of the unvaccinated the population least at risk the last remaining boogeyman in the stories the variant from l. the longer cova kicking around the higher we hope negligible probability that the variant from hell emerges. Maybe we should just call that the v f h in the future. Because that's what we're all keeping nine. Yeah which might be that. Lambda variant or my. You know. I should give him credit. His title is subject. Line is surged to purge the scourge late. Well well played. So i don't i don't remember. Remember when that blackfish. I think was the name of that documentary that came out about the orcas and how they are abusing him at seaworld and i remember. It may get a lot of attention. Everything like that for some reason in my mind. I thought that they stopped doing that. But then i went and watched it and paid a great deal of money. Me and the kids to watch orcas jump in the air and Flip around and stuff. They got dolphins doing that to still right. Yeah okay. so but what what i. I'll have to revisit that. Somebody remind me what was what was i supposed to be horrified about. It seemed very charming and we all cheered and laughed and had a good time there enormous beast watery cages. It's horrible if you think about they. Let's don't think about it. They look very happy and they ate an awful lot of mackerel. Acura afghanistan among other topics. On the way and getty. Did you know that we spend forty percent of our time on non work related tasks while at work as we've adapted to work from home we've lost over a third of our productivity to distraction disorganization and work app fatigue. One company click up is making waves on the internet for it's flexible platform. That brings your tasks docs goals chat and more all in one place with two hundred thousand. Plus teams from companies like uber. Google and web flow. Click up might be onto something. Click up is freed forever. So sign up today at click dot com slash iheart and see. What the grays is all about jong and getting show you look at the security situation or it's not good with the loss of terrain and the and the rapidity of that loss of terrain has has to be concerning one because hope actually matters morale actually matters and so as you watch the taliban moving across the country. What you don't want to have happen. Is that the people lose hope. So we're talking about afghanistan and how the afghan forces are Surrendering in droves or running across the border taliban is grabbing land like crazy that was general. Scott miller the us afghan commander by the way with a realistic view of the situation. More on that in a second a couple of things need tease for yo have among other things what is supposed to be the funniest joke of all time. Wow i just googled. Funniest joke ever because my kids are wanting to hear jokes. I just googled. Funniest joke ever. And i came across some nominees and some. Aren't that funny. But the funniest one is pretty funny. So i've been mentioning that an unexpected mail. A unit has roiled koreatown in la it is. it's a funny headline. it may be a sign of things to come as transgender folks are appearing more and more in places. Women don't expect to see male junk rules stay with us. Wow yeah it was crazy. There was a riot also. A russian group was it. Russia joe biden. Because it was. You said someone's gonna happen a russian group with another giant ransomware attack over the weekend. We gotta talk about that later. But first let's hear from jennifer griffin a little more on afghanistan. The taliban now control the northern passage and border-crossing tadzhikistan where the us just spent forty million dollars to create a customs crossing point for the afghan government. Now the taliban have a source of revenue to fuel their insurgency the pentagon is now negotiating with ouzbekistan north of afghanistan to serve as a drone base in the region. Now that the us does not have the use of bog rem airfield north of kabul in terms of the thousands of afghan translators and their families that the us promised visas who have been facing death threats from the taliban for their pass work with the us. Government congressman mccall says. The us is negotiating with khazakstan to serve as a base for them to wait while the us processes those visa requests negotiating bidder happened really fast. I would say beautiful cows extent. Just cool your heels there for the three years. It takes us to go through the paperwork over the weekend more than one thousand. Afghan soldiers fled into tajikestan. As taliban extent control tajik officials say the influx was the third wave of afghan soldiers to flee into tajik stand in recent days in the fifth and two weeks according to the bbc. The uptick in violence prompted the top. Us commander in afghanistan to warn that the country could slide into a chaotic multifaceted civil war and face very hard times. Oh it will and yeah that that that was him like putting the most positive by saying it could. That was the most positive spin you could put on it. It is about to like by the end of the week being a full scale. Civil war multi layered and m- and maybe there's no way to leave the country without that happening joe and i were talking during the commercials. How where You know where of mixed feelings about this sure captain ambivalent reporting for duty. Sir i on the one hand don't want some sorta haven for al qaeda type groups but that's leavened with how expansionist and anti west in active is al qaeda these days because we've reduced our footprint in the middle east so much over the last several years so do we need to worry about that in the same way that we used to. I don't know do we need the strategic resource of Boggling airforce base. Well apparently not or at least the biden administration doesn't think we do is afghanistan fundamentally different from any other hellhole on earth in which muslim fundamentalists about. I'm not sure that's my argument. There are lots of hell holes on earth that are just horrors mean. We don't ever talk about him or think about him or read about them. We just don't yeah. And there are plenty of fundamentalist muslims. There is the unfolding tragedy in afghanistan. Being going to be excruciating to watch even from a distance yes will it be just unthinkable for the afghan people Yeah probably oh. Yeah but i don't i just don't know we continue pouring trillions of dollars into an unsolvable problem so i still don't understand why some president and there have been four presidents dealing with this couldn't have at some point said. Hey look we're giving up on the whole idea of making it a nice country but we're going to keep a military base there. I still don't understand why we couldn't have done that. That seems pretty self so simple and easy to understand in reasonable Let's hear there's one more thing on this tray. Gouty had something to say on this clip. Twenty-one there let's hear that they all of that we're welcome to stop fighting but that doesn't mean the war is over and we need seven hundred and fifty people to protect our embassy in the airport and you wanna tell me that the country is thriving and safer translators and afghan women. I mean seven hundred fifty soldiers to protect our embassy. This is my fear in my heartbreak is explaining to the american sons and daughters who lost their lives and their limbs and part of their their youth in that country. What was it for. What was it for see. I think that's a terrible argument. I love tray gouty. We had a war in afghanistan where we crushed al qaeda. We hunted down osama eventually. We bashed up the taliban we made it infinitely clear that they can't harbor al qaeda. Then we thought wow to prevent them coming back. We're going to build a reasonable facsimile of a a modern country that failed. It did not work. So what did those american lives mean. They meant a hell of a good try at something that turns out to be undoable. And it's a damn shame but that's reality but we knew it was undoable a long time ago. I mean that's that's where trig out. He's got a really good point. We knew we knew we weren't doing it. Ten years ago true. Yeah and we continue to try to protect politicians poll numbers for reasons. That are a little too complicated. Get into it. they way over. Think this. I heard what's his name. The guy is ahead of the foreign relations committee and the house is on one of the show's over the weekend and he's talking about it's politics driving this. I think i think that biden trump obama maybe early and obama's term politics matter but man. It hasn't mattered for a long time. Nobody's paying any attention. You're not going to get dinged for staying or leaving. Nobody's paying any attention at all right so the idea that you have to do anything to stay or leave for politics is crazy. Nobody's talking about this well. Something to look forward to is during the next election cycle when inevitably girls schools are bombed and people are getting their heads sought off and the rest of it. it'll be used as a cudgel by the republicans against the biden administration which is ramar his terribly dishonest. But that's the way politics works. Well we left iraq like this and then something called. Isis sprang up and you know took over a whole bunch of the middle east. You know whatever. It was the size of texas in like a month but i don't think the talibans planning on that so no they just want to rule their rubble-strewn country like it's the year twelve hundred and with all due respect to trade out again who i admire a great deal him talking about well just because you stop fighting doesn't mean the war was over. I think our war is over and the alternative is a permanent client state where we're permanent war against the taliban forever or until the afghan security forces get their act together haw haw. I'm reminded of in vietnam. The vietnamese don't say the vietnam war the war. In vietnam they referred to the french war and the american war and various other wars. They've had throughout their time. The afghanistan's gonna look at our involvement. Is they historical period of note. But you know when it's over it's over right. And i feel like anybody. Whoever mentions our longest war or anything like that is by definition lying to me Because it hasn't been a war for very long time just repeating the cliche while we were on vacation a transgender woman won. Miss nevada the missing nevada. Usa pageant making history. It says here making history. Srey a guy win a female beauty pageant. Yeah i guess so. I tell you what let's meet and fifty years you show me in the history book with that in it. Okay and she is a she at this point as she has done the whole thing so to be a politically correct and fair. We'll call her she. But i'd still i just i don't i don't know it's so beauty pageants i guess as long as we're on the topic. Tensions rose saturday between protesters and counter protesters in l. a. over a spa incident involving a transgender woman. Last week a sis gender woman. That's a woman complained to staff it. We spine koreatown after transgender gal disrobed in a designated women's section of the spa quote. It's okay for a man to go into the women's section show his penis around the other women. Young little girls underage. The female patroness staff in a video that went viral on the twitter. He is not a female you know. We really ought to have this video. I watched it was Shoes angry yeah. And i don't blame her. I would have been beyond anger angry if my little girl had. Just you know paneth in there. Yeah well a staff. Member member responded probably correctly that the facility could not discriminate against the woman based on her gender identity. Sparking further outrage among some customers. Another female patron was shown in the video demanding money back value not to return to the spa then. Demonstrators flocked to we spa some to protest against the unwanted. Ns others to defend the transgender woman's rights exchanges broke out between the two groups with some corals escalating fistfights one person transported hospital. Well we're going to have to figure this out ladies and germs. A woman suffered a severe testicular injury. You know. I'm reminded this this tweet by sydney watson whose work i do not know. People don't get periods women do people don't get pregnant women do. People don't breastfeed women do being female is not feeling. It isn't frilly dresses high heels long hair and makeup. I'm sick of seeing my sex erased and trivialized to accommodate everyone else or we're going to have to figure this out. A lot of us already have right but legally speaking. Yeah we're going to figure this out. You can't have people punching each other in the face in korea town every time a penis appears. I mean. it's just it's untenable. It's no way to run a city argument whether you're pro penis or anti penis. Certainly i have the funniest joke of all time. According to the internet you know. I'm both pro. And anti depends on the setting. I'm pro v. Context matters completely. It's like dogs. One is enough contact one. Another dog context is huge with the penis. All like all context. Is everything really rosie absolutely true. Well said i do have the funniest joke according to the internet of all time. Oh boy which is a good teeth because You know. I would want to hear what that is. Oh sure it's pretty. I gotta admit a couple of the runners up ride like why who thought was funny but the winning jokes pretty funny brecca heard it under times. I don't know but Got some texts on the whole fourth of july. Not being patriotic corps. They live or patriotic. Where they live depends on where you live on whether or not it's just you know it's it's a time when you just you remember how amazing this country it is is what a great thing. It was for world history or you shrink and cower in our embarrassed for the flag and the national anthem like one of our olympia. olympians who Turned her back on the national anthem. We ought to get into that story. That happened while we were gone to weak. But all that stuff on the text line four one. Five two nine five k. ftc the armstrong and getty show sneaking the olympic which we were barely there for a second the summer olympics. Start the afternoon or three weeks from our. I don't have any idea went eventually in japan where they don't want them but perhaps the biggest star for the united states that was going to be like a household name. She she's smoking. Even we'd apparently so we gotta we gotta talk about that. Hold on a second though. Got the funniest joke of all time. According to the internet there you go by the way i hit my my niece my older niece. Who are in town to visit with the timeless internet question. Would you prefer one hundred duck sized horses or one horse size duck. She gave it a good solid thank announced to my surprise she was going to go with the horse. Sized duck for the purpose of saddling it and writing it now. They would fly around. We had a brief discussion of the lift capabilities of of horse size ducks whether they could carry human but she's very skinny so we decided yes. Good plan so we spent. It was longest vacation. The boys i've ever taken. We did four nights and a hotel four nights five days long. Weaver taken almost made the whole trip without any Huge meltdowns but not quite but anyway but at one point Boredom it in for some reason. And so i googled. Funniest joke in the world jess came up with a couple of examples. Some of were like translating from a foreign language. In what sense it was a joker even a sentence. Google translate has its limits. yeah but This this was some sort of Algorithm came up with this. What's brown and sticky stick is considered by some people the funniest joke of all time. And i Again maybe maybe an different language that works better This was considered a by one website. The funniest joke of all time texan. Where are you from harvard graduate. I come from a place where we do. Not in sentences with prepositions texan. Okay where do you come from jackass. I always enjoyed that one. Yes but this one is the one that made us laugh by once. One website called the funniest joke in baldwin to hundreds or out in the woods when one of them collapses he doesn't seem to be breathing in his eyes are glazed the other guy whips out his phone and calls emergency services. Yes my friend is dead. What can i do. The operator says. Calm down i can help i. Let's make sure he's dead their silence then a gunshot is heard back on the phone. Guy says okay. Now what comedy dictator. Let's make sure he's dead. I get it misunderstanding. What happened there so this really sucks. And i hadn't heard her name but everybody who's going to know her name here in the afternoon or in three weeks whenever the olympics start shock. Hurry that high pronounce her name richardson. She's got a flowing orange hair one of those giant outsized personalities. Big toothy smile lights up a room fastest woman in the world. And you know that's also one of the marquee sports we're gonna talk about that hammer throwing woman who turned her back on the national anthem. Nobody watches the hammer throw. This is the hundred meter sprint. Fast woman the world competition. We were going to win it with this giant personality that was going to be on every dang talk show and billboard in the country except she smoked dope and that's illegal according to the i o and she no longer can run in the in that race to be the fastest woman in the world and Afc and i agreed with ao. See on her on this. Not for the same reason. Thought it was that they should definitely reconsider their anti-doping policy since marijuana is legal in over half the states in the united states at this point then she went on to say the criminalization and banning of cannabis as an instrument of racist and colonial policy. Okay i don't know about that but it is kind of odd that it is legal in over half. The states in the united states in this woman at some point in the last month may have smoked marijuana a little bit and she and the race well. She said her mom passed away. And she was grief-stricken and sought solace in the evil weed. Is that is her her way to cope with that sort of thing trying not marijuana. Okay i i tried to get interested in this controversy. I just think it's one of those. You knew what the rules were. You know if you're incoherent with grief than as a human being you absolutely have my sympathy. And i'm really sorry this happened. I feel no need to deliver sermons. Do you want to have the best runner in the world or not i do. I care about america. We'll say sued and sang the national anthem. The fourth of july. Apparently you were badmouthing. America's you want some other country in the world that's a reasonable argument to make the rules are what they are changed the rules. You don't like the rules. change the rules. You can't selectively enforce the rules based on. Well she's a nice gal and she had done great on tv. You can't change the rules. japan and wanted ratings. I'd wanna run in the race to. Here's another thing that happened with athletes while we were gone. That is kind of funny so my whole life. They've been arguing that college athletes should be able to make money. You've got these giant stars and the university and others are making gazillions of dollars off. They're like this their name their jersey their number and everything like that. They don't get to make sense so finally. The supreme court weighs in and opens it up all my life when they were making this argument. We all assumed it was going to be just the biggest start your school and not just the hottest. Start your school and what happened immediately. When the supreme court threw open the doors for college athletes to make money is. It's not the big studly half back at your college. It's so volleyball player. Girl you've never heard of in your life to look like a model and they are the ones raking in the cash. All of a sudden you got these twins who play for fresno state on the women's basketball team nobody cares about fresno state women's basketball except they're both really hot in they're twins and now they've got a giant following in they're making tons of money advertising stuff. I know what i'm doing during the commercial break. Isn't that funny. Though that when the supreme court finally ruled the whole nature of advertising changed completely. It's not about sports. Stars is about hot chick exactly old man armstrong and getty have you heard of click up. It's the fastest growing productivity tool that saving people one day a week by bringing all your work into one place loved by two hundred thousand plus teams in companies like uber and web flow click up brings your tasks docs goals chat and more into one place to help you get more done. Click up is free forever. So sign up today at click up dot com slash iheart.

afghanistan taliban us getty washington post armstrong george washington broadcast ce joe getty getty communications lamb dacoven kilborn Mrs dalloway yellen biden administration maskey al qaeda Armstrong joe getty peru saul ben biden
A.O. Scott Talks About William Maxwell

The Book Review

1:01:40 hr | Last month

A.O. Scott Talks About William Maxwell

"This podcast is supported by scribner publisher of damnation. Spring ash davidson's epic immersive debut novel. That tells the deeply human story of a family in their pacific northwest logging town clinging to a vanishing way of life. Vogue says it's pitch perfect and the new york times book review says. It's a glorious book and assured novel. That's gorgeous lee told damnation. Spring is available now in bookstores and online. What makes william maxwell one of our great american writers. Ao scott will be here to talk about his latest essay in our series the americans. How does the necessity of morally compromised labor implicate us. All a press will be here to talk about his new book. Dirty work alexander alter will be here with the latest and publishing news. Plus our critics will talk to us about what they're reviewing. This is the book of you. Podcast in the new york times. It's august twenty seventh. I'm pamela call. Ao scott joins us now from maine to talk about the latest in his series. The americans the subject this time around is william maxwell turney. Thanks for being here. Great to be here pamela. Who was william maxwell. William maxwell may be best known in some ways for his day job not for his writing he was a fiction editor at the new yorker for many decades and in a way even if he had never published anything under his own name he would have been an influential figure in american writing. He edited john. Updike mary mccarthy jd salinger many of the luminaries of the new yorker in its mid-century glory years but he was also a novelist he published five novels and many by of short store many short stories in his long career that started in the mid thirties and went up almost to his death in two thousand and one of the things that i was trying to do in writing this pieces figure out an explain to myself and also to interested readers. What kind of writer. He was because he alludes easy. Categorization i think. He writes a lot about a small town midwestern life in the early part of the twentieth century. But he's not really a historical novelist. He's not really a regional realist. I don't think he was associated for many years with the new yorker but he doesn't quite fit as a writer the stamp of what we think of as a new yorker writer so he is however one of my favorite writers. I'll say that. I mean he's a writer who is a perpetual pleasure to discover. Rediscover did he think of himself primarily as a writer or an editor he did yeah and he published his first two novels. I believe the first novel was right center of heaven which he was kind of unhappy with which wasn't reprinted until the library of america posthumous volumes. That came out in two thousand eight but he published his first novels in. The thirties was very ambitious in that way and got recruited by harold. Ross the first editor of the new yorker to work at the new yorker and he kind of went back and forth settled permanently after the war when he had started a family needed a steady job but he always had an arrangement where he had a day off from going to the office at the new yorker to write and he continued to publish fiction throughout his. And i think especially later on. He had a big success. Kind of late in life with a novel called so long. See you tomorrow. Almost a novella again revisiting his childhood in this small town in illinois in the early part of the twentieth century this time a little more overtly autobiographical with the town given its right name. And many of the characters and members of his family given their and that brought him a lot of recognition and i think sparked the first rediscovery of his work which is when i first read. It was when i was in college in the late eighties and a lot of the earlier books. Starting with time will darken a- and also a folded leaf his third and fourth novels. I said but in the wrong order fourth and third novels those came out and those were the first things i read and they just had an enormous effect on me. Especially time will darken it. Which i think is really his masterpiece. Man is the one that i spend the most time on. I think in this piece which is just an incredibly vivid and subtle and sometimes very funny but also ultimately heartbreaking story of a family and it's extended kin friends and neighbors and this whole town in one thousand nine hundred twelve in rural illinois. I read that book in college and it was just really one of the great reading experiences of my life. I think partly because my own father is from similar town obviously a different generation and in western ohio and there was something about the world that he talked about the my father. He's talking about his childhood and his parents and grandparents that i felt like maxwell had just opened up and made real despite working in a magazine but the name the new yorker was william maximal fundamentally a midwestern writer. That was a puzzle for me. There is a section that never made it into the peace. Because i just kind of tied myself in knots trying to answer that question and trying first of all to figure out what a midwestern writer might be and it turns out that that's a very hard question. Just in terms of literary identity is the midwest literary region. Because i started thinking about who would count as a mid western writer would f scott fitzgerald's you know from minnesota would would ernest hemingway's from illinois. Toni morrison's from ohio. David foster wallace theodore dreicer. You know you kind of end up in my head. Two different ones right but not i think there is something of a kind of new yorker personality about both the magazine and city as it was. Let's say in the forties and fifties a kind of cosmopolitanism that that rests very lightly. You know that's not aggressive about. Its own sophistication. But it kind of worldliness that i associate with the new yorker but at the same time you could also associated with the mid west in the decades that he writes about because the people in his stories especially the people who are based on members of his own family are very very aware of what's going on very sophisticated in their judgements and their tastes in their intellectual ambitions. So i think he wasn't away in exile mid-westerner i mean. I think he lived almost all of his adult life in around new york. He wrote a wonderful very funny novel called the chateau about a trip to france and a kind of classic variation on the americans abroad theme but his imagination always drew him back to illinois to lincoln to his own family to his own life but also to the particular civilization and culture and society that he knew growing up and it was almost like in so many of these books. Whether it's so long see you tomorrow. Or or time will darken it or they came like swallows or the late short story collection. Billy dire. He's always trying to figure out. What was that world not necessarily in a romantic historical fiction kind of way. But but in a way that he was trying in a sense to figure out himself by figuring out where he had come from and it was inexhaustible thing that's really remarkable about his revisiting his family is family story and just the town where he lived is just. How many layers are there. How much in. What seems like a simple small provincial place. Just how much depth and complexity and comedy and pathos live there and it's interesting that it never feels like historical fiction. I mean maybe they came like swallows because of course we all know about that. One thousand nine hundred flew but in the story itself. It's so personal and the focus is so tight that somehow you're never feels like that's his goal. Yeah no. I never feels like he's dressing up in costumes or putting on a pageant and i think it's partly because his methods are very modern He he started out very much under the influence of virginia woolf and tried in a way to write his first novel right center of heaven after. Mrs dalloway but what that means is that. He's very tuned to the consciousness of his characters and his people are always modern. They might live now more than a century distant from us and an century distant from when he might be writing but because we're in their heads and understanding their motives and their reactions and their relationships with each other. They can't seem anything but modern us. I can't seem anything but immediate and recognizable even when they're doing things that are that are irrational or straight. You feel like you're there that distance that pictorial historic distri- that you get in a lot of historical fiction just vanishes and of course there's that moment in so long see you tomorrow. He actually goes in the head of a dog. Yes what do you make of that. This anomaly it's not the only time and he goes into the head of an animal. There are a few short stories but in a way he has this method that all consciousnesses are open to him. And it's a wonderful silent. It's it's kind that's not used. I think very much anymore. I mean we have sort of an idea. It's common in a lot of karn fiction to have cereal narrators or spend a chapter from the perspective of this person. This person this person but he just sort of floats through everyone's minds just very freely and he loves writing from the from the perspective of children. One of the most vivid characters in time will darken. It is if a four year. Old girl abigail king. Who just sort of is absorbing all the things that the grownups are doing and not understanding it so a child a dog. Anybody anybody who might have an interesting point of view on what's happening. Who might have a perspective. That could illuminate all of the strange behaviors on human beings that are subjects. That's fair game for him. So and the dog and so long. See you tomorrow is. It is very important character in a way. 'cause it's the stories about this crime. It's almost a true crime story about. This is a true story isn't it. yeah it is. It's about a murder that happened in his hometown when he was a kid that involved the parents of a friend of his. And there's an interesting kind of class dimension to the friendship with his kid who who lives out is the son of tenant farmers who lives out of town maxwell and his family live among the sort of the more boo joie citizens of the town in the town proper but the dog is the most loyal and in a way in a way. The dog is the hero of the story because everyone else is lying is betraying is selfishly pursuing their own ends and the dog in her absolute loyalty and devotion to this boy who loses. Everything loses all his friends lose his family because of what happens that has nothing to do with him and has no fault of his. The dogs adoration for him is a very important presence. And reminder in a way that goodness and loyalty are possible even in this world. I don't understand anyone who could listen to you. Talk about this particular case. I want to reread it right now. But so long. See you tomorrow and came. Like swallows are probably the two of his best known books. You mentioned earlier. That time darken. It is your favorite. Which other book in particular would you recommend or story. I think his third all the folded leaf is a really extraordinary book. And i think the second thing is that i read. I mean it's about the friendship. It's a love story about two boys growing up in chicago and then going to college at an unnamed university. that's probably the university of illinois abused published in the in the forties in nineteen forty five. I think and it. It reminds me a lot of. Em foresters morris which is a story about love between two young men that forster suppressed in his lifetime would only allowed. We published posthumously. It's very candid about the sexual and emotional and romantic dimensions of this relationship in a way that his startling when you think about when it was written but he's also still startling. Because it's just not what you would expect somehow it's so tender and also comical and awful. The two boys one of them is. I think a recognizable maxwell surrogate if you read a lot of fiction. There's a sort of osa sensitive unathletic shy dreamy intellectual kid. Sometimes boy sometimes a girl who's almost always him and that character also has lost his mother and his living with his father. Chicago's neighbors limi- and he meets this this kid named but what happened to that name but split in london and so spot his outgoing. He's not particularly academically inclined. He's very athletic. He loves to fight. He goes around getting in fights with kids and he develops his very tender. Protective interest in an limi- is absolutely devoted to him and adores and and they spend all their time together. Spuds family kind of is aware of it and that line is always sleeping over. They go to college. They moved into a boarding house. They share a bed throughout most of their college time. We have a way of looking at it. Now you'd say well. This is a great queer love story and it is but it also has these other dimensions that are particular to its own time and to the to the understanding that the characters and the people around them might have of what was going on. I think it's an amazing. I mean that is a book that i reread this piece. And then and then immediately read it again. Just felt like there's so much in it it's also such a lovely simple and characteristically for maxwell tragicomic story terrible things happen but it's also extremely funny and very wry about how people act and how people delude themselves about how. They're acting why he had a really long career as a writer. The first library of america collection is from thousand nine hundred thirty eight to nine hundred fifty six and the second is from nineteen fifty seven to ninety nine so i i was this division into early novels and stories and later novels and stories that the loa makes in the publication of these two books arbitrary or was there a stylistic change or evolution during that period that's clear and discernible. I think it comes later. I don't think it comes in between the two volumes. I mean obviously it helps to make the books more or less the same size. I think the change comes really much later around in the seventies and then in nineteen eighty with the publication of so long. See you tomorrow and what happens. Basically is the dropping or discarding of some of the the masks of fiction. So so long. See you tomorrow. He is the main character and narrator and the town is lincoln. It's not called draper. Ville as it is entitled darkness and that goes even further in billy dire which is a collection of stories almost entirely about people in that town and about members of his own family that feel however embellished or fictionalized. They might be that havoc stamp of reality of being the kind of literal remembered truth and he also rode around that time a memoir called ancestors so one thing that separates late from early is dispensing with some of a machinery of fiction and moving toward a more directly autobiographical directly truthful i writing whether it's whether he categorized as a novel or memoir and you say he might be the unacknowledged forerunner of auto fiction. That was something that that occurred to me when i was reading some of the later books. Because they're so they feel so uninfected way you know it's like well. This was me. And i had this conversation with my father and i remember this about my brother. And here's the story about my aunt. You know all in a very low key so that as is often the case with auto fiction the stronger emotional currents are late as you're reading the story you feel like you're reading kind of almost anecdotal account of something. And it's only afterwards only cumulatively that you get a sense of the kind of power i started this conversation tony thinking that i was not going to bring either of these books with me on vacation next man. I got to a place like well. It'll it'll be this one or it'll be that one. And now. I feel like i have to look like two hardcover library of america books with me. Tony always a pleasure to talk to you. Likewise thank you family. Scott is writing a series of essays for book review called the americans. The latest one is william maxwell who says the academic field is undramatic. Watch sandra. Oh in the netflix series the chair oh portrays professor jian. Kim who's handed the reins the first person of color and female chair of the english department at pembroke university. Professor kim must juggle being a single parent. Collegiate challenges and a workplace romance. This culturally relevant comedy shows university life from a professors perspective the chairs streaming now only on net flicks. Hi this is kara. Swisher and i wanna talk to you about my new podcast for the new york times called sway. When you hear someone influential business leader or a culture icon or god forbid a politician telling us about themselves. And they're like we're going to end world hunger or cure cancer poor. We're going to revolutionize the tech industry if only you'll buy our product and it just sounds like they're reading from a press release. Yeah we don't learn much from talking points. If you want to know what people who hold power in our world are really all about. You need to hear how they answer the tough questions. And that is my specialty. That's why i'm teaming up with the new york times for a new podcast called sway. I'm gonna talk to some big names but also some names you may not recognize but need to know and although it might get messy in fact it's guaranteed to be messy. It's going to be really fun to you. Can get swayed wherever you get your podcast. New episodes available. Mondays and thursdays. Tina jordan joins us now to help. Celebrate the one hundred and twenty th anniversary of the book review. Hey tina hey pamela. So in the past. I've brought you if you op-eds that. The book review ran over the years and talked about the fact that we did in fact run up as the very beginning. And i'm going to bring you one from nineteen hundred today and the headline is heroines. Who smoke what the american heroin will do next to make herself profoundly. Disagreeable has become vexed. Question she has nearly boxed. The compass already and even england home of the gentle maiden whose girls are uniformly well bred has of late issued all sorts of fiends who use bad language and shock one sensibilities there follows examples of such disagreeable young women but the op-ed writer in this case a woman and mrs sherwood has a conclusion and she says however i will forgive the new heroine her cigarette and almost any degree of bad manners. If she will only be grammatical and pleasing. I will forgive her in fiction at least in most unbecoming slingy even to her mother or her friend but not to her lover. Well this op. Ed writer would be very very disappointed in literature today. That's exactly what i think. Thanks tina thanks ale. Press joins us now from the berkshires. His new book is called dirty work. Essential jobs and the hidden toll of inequality in america l. Thanks so much being her. Thanks so much for having me. I want to start with a really basic question. Which is what is dirty work. It sounds like we should know what this says. How do you define dirty work. The colloquial expression dirty work tends to refer to just unpleasant task. I define it a little bit differently in this book. Dirty work as i'm using the term in the book is work. That is morally troubling. But the that much of society tacitly condones and doesn't want to hear too much about so if we think about the targeted killings that drone operators carry out or what goes on on the floors of industrial slaughterhouses. It's work that is performing functions. That are pretty integral to the way we live and to our society but that tend to be hidden from view and that that make us uncomfortable. And i wanted to get into the experiences in the dilemmas of people. Who do this work and also tell a larger story about how society organizes this work in delegates it. This is your third book. And i can't help but think this must have been connected in some way to your second fuck. Maybe grew out of it or a sort of counterpoint. Correct me if i'm wrong. The previous book was called beautiful souls courage and conscience of ordinary people in extraordinary times. Yes you're absolutely right pamela. it's in fact. All three of my books have been about how individuals navigate morally treacherous situations and in in beautiful souls. I wrote about the resistors. The people who in a sense keep their hands clean. By heating the voice of conscience in various situations sometimes risking their jobs sometimes risking their lives and as i was researching that book. I got more and more interested in people. I was talking to a meeting on the way who actually did dirty their hands and who experienced these inner conflicts and i could see the toll it had taken both the toll on society at large but also the toll on them and those stories really stayed with me. I didn't write about them in that book. Obviously but i got really interested in in telling their stories and the more i thought about who is put in those situations. Those those morally conflicted situations. Who does the dirty work. In in our society the more this became a book about inequality because my conclusion one of the message of the book is that it's very rarely the privileged on the powerful. It's more likely to be people at the bottom of the social ladder people with fewer choices opportunities who are thrust into these ethically troubling rolls that they carry out in a sense on societies behalf and in our name the easiest option right would be that the people in the previous spoke. The beautiful souls would be fundamentally different from the people who do the work that might be morally difficult or compromising. Is that actually the case. Are they different kinds of people. Are they better people. The ones who say no. I won't do it than the ones who do go along and do that. Work often essential work. I don't think of them as better or worse. I think that one of the messages of beautiful souls was that these were ordinary people who engaged in extraordinary acts. But that doesn't mean they're perfect people and they're not in this case. These are people who do things that are easy to condemn deplore from a distance but are very difficult to resist doing. When you are the person doing it early. In the book. I write about the mental health. Attendance very poorly paid very highly pressured. Who work in jails in prisons and jails and prisons are our nation's largest mental health institutions. And what happens to the frontline workers is they have to responsibilities on the one hand. Take care of your patients. Make sure they get the mental health care. They need on the other hand. Appease security don't cross security because that could risk your own safety and tell the stories of a worker named harriet. chris kofsky. Who worked in a prison in florida who she gradually learns that the patients entrusted to our care being abused and severely abused. They're being starved. They're being put in solitary confinement. She eventually learns that. Some of them are being tortured in a shower with scalding water. That is controlled from the outside. And harry doesn't say anything about this just like all her peers on the staff didn't say anything. There was one person who did say something earlier before this. He was fired and harriet. And the other people who i talked to. They didn't wanna lose their jobs. They depended on these jobs for their livelihood so they stayed and they watched and they were in a sense. You could argue accomplices to all of this and yet i feel that we are all accomplices to what went on at that prison because we shut down our state mental hospitals and funded mental health care to such an extent that jails and prisons have in a sense filled in the gap. They're doing the dirty work for us. That results in these deplorable abuses. Let's pause for a moment on this situation in particular there've been a few books in recent years about the way in which the mentally ill are quote unquote cared for by being incarcerated but give us a little bit more background. This started during the reagan era. I would argue. It started even earlier and with some good intentions. It's the kennedy administration. John f. kennedy started talking about shutting down these psychiatric hospitals and these asylums that were not really giving good care to the mentally ill and it was a very well intentioned movement to deinstitutionalise but the premise of that movement was that there would be community services and community based care the funding for that never happened. And you're absolutely right in during the reagan era this movement ran into tax revolts and shrinking government. And so what you ended up having was mentally ill people especially the poor criminalization of poverty. The criminalization of mental illness people sleeping on the streets and often cycling in out of the criminal justice system. Which is the last place. One would send someone in in the throes of a psychiatric crisis to get care and treatment and yet. That's what we've done so it's one example. I go into quite a bit of detail where i suggest that this work has been structured by larger forces that puts people like harriet. Chris kofsky and others in really terrible situations. How does someone like. Harriet ended up becoming a mental health. Care provider. I mean what are the qualifications. Who are these jobs. Given to in that case has in all the other cases in the book these are in a sense jobs of last resort. Not for everyone but if we look at the psychiatric profession it's not elite psychiatrists who are working in corrections who are working at the local jail and places like dade correctional institution. The pay isn't good but even more than that. There's a stigma to it. You're working there. You can't get a better job. One that pays pet her and yet there's also very general recognition within the psychiatric and mental health profession. That these are the people often most in need the people cycling into jails the people you see who are homeless not getting services so it's left to this solution. That really isn't a solution and that results in both inhumane treatment of the mentally ill and dehumanizing conditions for the people on the front lines doing the work. These jobs are as you said essential. You call them essential jobs and after urine which we've heard a lot of talk about essential workers. What do we mean by essential jobs. How does that differ from essential workers. I use the term a little differently. But yet you're right. We've spent the past year and a half talking about and seeing how grocery clerks and delivery drivers perform these essential functions without which society could not function and in particular privileged people who stayed home and were able to shelter in place got their groceries on time. And all of that. I use essential workers a little differently. I'm talking about people who perform unpleasant tasks that are nevertheless necessary to the prevailing social order and the lifestyles many of us lead. There's a lot in the book. About how dirty workers cater to the consumption choices of americans. The food we eat which is produced in an industrial agricultural system and in industrial slaughterhouses that very few of us want to see and that indeed are hidden for from our view for a purpose for reason or if we think of the fossil fuels consumed fredericton drilled in distant places. We're all using them. But we're not on the frontlines doing the dirty work and so the term essential is one that you know. Some people would say well. This isn't essential. We just shouldn't do these things. But if we peel back and look at what structures society and what kinds of work we depend on. I think we find that that it is more embedded in our world than we care to admit you said that these jobs are often last resort for some or many of the employees. Can you give an example like. Let's talk about slaughterhouse workers who ends up working on the floor in a slaughterhouse. Why i know you probably can't really generalize about all of them but among the ones that you spoke with how do they feel about the fact that this is what they're doing for a living. This really came to a head during the pandemic. We had actually a president trump ordering slaughterhouses to continue running meat. Companies like tyson and others said. The consumers will be deprived of the supply of meat. Now turns out. That's a very contestable claim. There were a lot of experts. Meat china during this period but meanwhile the quote unquote essential workers on the front lines. Who are they. they're often undocumented immigrants. They're poor they're piecing together a living and they're doing the job the conditions of which have grown more and more dangerous physically. And i think more and more injuries to the spirit. Why more dangerous physically. One of the ways that the consumer demand for cheap meat is met is by speeding lines so that you have fewer government inspectors and you have looser regulations and you can literally run and and kill and dismember more chickens. Cows pigs in these plants per minute than before. But there's someone doing the slicing and the cutting the hauling and the and standing on those lines and by and large this has become work that immigrants do many of them undocumented that people of color disproportionately do in the poultry inch industry which is focused on in particular used to be largely. White workforce after desegregation. Many black workers started working plants and that actually caused some white workers to leave who wanna have black co workers and then gradually immigrants started coming in and often being brought in and recruited to work these jobs one immigrant worker. I spoke to joked with me with worked in north carolina Every so often we'll see a white person come in to to do the job for a day and then they take their lunch break and they don't come back and one of them joke to him. You know I'm not going to stand there and endure these brutal conditions after day. So that's what. I mean by by work of last resort in the particular chicken poultry plant. I focused on the worst thing about it was not even the repetitiveness and the physical strain that so many of the workers underwent it was the fact that a largely female workforce was denied. Bathroom breaks in order to keep pace with the work. And so you literally had people going into work wearing an extra pair of pants and under that sanitary napkin so that they could go to the bathroom on the line and not be reprimanded. No one who hears about that would condone it and yet as a society. We do condone it. Because it's very distant from us so that kinda works slaughterhouse work. That sounds like dirty work to us. But what about something. Like dirty tech. What is that. There are two kinds of dirty in the book and then they're not entirely different. It's not always one or the other but sometimes the work involves literally contact with with blood and with excrement with animals with things that that evoked discussed. But there's work that is technically clean that is can be very ethically troubling and morally troubling. And when i talk about dirty tech in the last few years. We've we've had a sort of reckoning with how much of the technology and the machines that we rely on causes social harm in various forms whether it's by circulating untrue stories and propaganda or through spyware very recently the scandal of spyware being used sold to governments by an israeli company that used this to track dissidents and journalists And so there is a lot of dirtiness in the tech world. And i do right about that and some of it takes place in very nice offices by people who are paid well for their work. Some of it takes place in the congo where cobalt is mind to power the batteries. That run our iphones and our smartphones and devices but i do think that the tech workers like any well paid worker. Who does something. That's ethically troubling. They're in a better position than people like the prison. Workers i write about or the slaughterhouse workers i write about. They're not has stuck in what they do. That's that's one reason for that and another is that they're doing the job that is not as devalued in stigmatized in our society. So even though we've had this reckoning with some of the troubling things that technology causes it's still a very prestigious thing to be a software engineer. This is a book where where i'm talking about. Injuries like stigma and shame. And i do think that class and status shapes how those things play out. Did those workers in tak where they did have a little bit more choice a little more movement. Did they feel ethically troubled by what they were doing. They feel like they were victims of moral injury. I spoke in depth to two former google employees both of whom discovered as they were working at google that they were working on programs that troubled them in one case. It was a search engine. That jack paulson. Former google employees discovered was going to be used in china but the chinese government was going to censor certain search terms and potentially use it to dissidents as being done in china. He was horrified by this. I do think he he might have suffered from moral injury or some kind of deep lasting ethical wound if he'd stayed on but he left and that's one of the things that can help a person in such a situation to exercise exit in essentially to leave the company to do something else and people with high tech skills can do that more easily then undocumented. Immigrants in slaughterhouse. Pretty clear but that said. I also interviewed another former google employees. Laura nolan who found out that she was working on something that was ten generally related potentially directly related to helping drone strikes be carried out and nolan. Who is irish wanted. Nothing to do with this and when she found out she stop sleeping well. She felt stressed out she. She pretty much told me that she felt this guilt. And gloom overtake her and she she eventually left but but her experience does suggest that it's perfectly possible for someone in a situation like that to bring home a nice paycheck and seemed to be doing fine but actually be deeply troubled. It's probably indictment surely an indictment of our society and our economy and our government that there are so many jobs you could have written about for this book in your view. Are we all complicit in this work we are. I do say at various points in the book. I wanna make it very clear. I'm not saying this. Work is immutable and unchangeable has some sort of structural force. That nothing can alter and i talk here and there about the people who want to shed light on it. The protesters who show up at prisons or drone basis to alert society to say. Hey we can't allow this to go on. But i also think that in the case of what those protesters what the revelations sometimes lead to is kind of piling on on the lowest ranking people who foot the blame so it becomes a story about bad apples much in the way that hubble grabbed it right. We all remember Charles greiner lindy england they. They took those photos. What what a horror. but no senior officials were prosecuted for that and as a society. I don't know that we reckon fully with what torture means because torture takes place in the jails and prisons of the united states and we have solitary confinement on a scale that doesn't exist in so many other countries so the reckoning is in complete. And i think part of the reason. The reckoning is incomplete. Is that this. Work is well hidden from us. And it's easy to avert our eyes so on the one hand we could protest we could blame and condemn certain individuals for being responsible for some of the worst accident. Take place in some of the sturdy work on the other and we know that these jobs are as you said essential. Someone has to do it has to get done. What do you think could be done to make. The lives of these workers. Perhaps better assuming that. The jobs can be eliminated altogether. I'm not a policy expert in them. And i'm not an advocate so the book is is a set of stories and i think that you know my my hope is that it enables us to see this work and the people who do it more clearly and in a more humane light which is both about what this costs us when people suffer because of this work but also what happens when we don't actually reckon with it and just blame the people doing it. There isn't a set of policy prescriptions. Lay out what i do. Say is that because we've become such unequal society. I think it's no surprise. That dirty work is organized and delegated unequally so that even if you look at the geography of dirty work where do industrial slaughterhouses in. Prisons generally get built there in remote poorer areas. They're not in upscale a nice communities because they're stigmatized institutions and people don't wanna be reminded of them and so. I think that the first thing we need to do is see that this work is part of our society in that we have allowed and tolerated it for to go on as long as we have here in there. I do sort of suggest that there are ways. Where if we made the allocation more random we might rethink it so for example. I'm not a proponent of expanding america's military footprint by any means. But i do think we should think about having a draft if we're going to have never ending wars because without a draft. What i think we ended up doing is relying on a certain part of the population. The other one percent. I call it in the book to fight our wars and then not to think about it and then to condemn it when we hear about something terrible but not really to engage. Whether this is something as a society we need to rethink Not own it. Exactly let's end. With the words of one of the people you interviewed describing their own work and the way they feel about it can choose among any of the people. You've interviewed sure. So i'm going to shoes. Bill kurtis so after. I tell the stories of the mental health attendance at the date correctional institution. Anyone who reads that part of the book is going to think. Well there's an obvious villain to the story and it's the security guards a did these horrible things they condemnation and they should be prosecuted for their crimes. And i by no means suggest the guards who are involved in. This abuse shouldn't be held accountable. Of course they should be but chapter that follows is about corrections officers in florida and the kinds of conditions they work under and one of the corrections officers i write about bill curtis who is now retired but who told me when a man a good man or woman goes into prison a little bit of your goodness whereas off you become jaded. You become more callous. He sort of described this moral slide. That happens and just sort of said it and then put his is down and in the course of talking. He also shirt excerpts from a diary he'd kept while he worked that sort of alluded to moments where he witnessed. And maybe experienced this moral slide. And i think what stayed with me with that is that of course there are corrections officers. Who meet out abuse without thinking about it very long. They sleep well at night. And in fact curtis told me as much you know. He said i called them. Cereal bullies but then he went on to say you know in florida. We get what we pay for here. We have the third largest prison system in the country. We pay the people who work very little. We have very little in the way of rehabilitative programs. And how does an officer learn to enforce order in such a situation simple brute force intimidate and you go to war in essentially curtis by the way the military veteran as as many corrections officers are and then you sort of look at the levels of suicide and trauma. An arbiter argue moral injury among people who work in prisons and it starts to become a much more complicated story in which the easy villains in the story. Turn out to be more complicated. And maybe some of the blame should be spread around to state that spent so little florida's among the last in per capita spending on mental health. And so many of the people and again curtis talked about this in his diary. He was yet no training to deal with people with mental illnesses. And yet that's what he was often encountered with. So if we look past just the labels and go into the institutional settings and the bigger constraints than i think we come with a much more nuanced understanding of what the real problem with dirty workers. I think you've made it clear why this is such a humane and empathetic book l. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me on. L. presses new book is called dirty work essential jobs and the hidden toll of inequality in america. This is john williams and alexandra alter joins me now for news from the publishing world hail. Alexandra hey john so would you like some good news. Talk so as we've talked about on the podcast regularly you know. The pandemic was a real concern for the industry. When it occurred. I now in what seems like forever ago as it has dragged on the industry has proved to be incredibly resilient book. Sales are actually doing great in all formats print audio e books and so some recent numbers that came in from n. p. book scan showed that so far this year. Twenty twenty one and the first six months of the year of sales rose eighteen percent in the first half of the year. So i think probably because we're comparing it to twenty twenty the first few months of the spring when the pink i hit bookstores were closed and supply chains. Were really disrupted. Sales did fall but then they really research and particularly over the summer of last year. Sales were enormous. Part of it was in june. A lot of readers were turning to books about race and racism also in the summer. There was this. Huge wave of trump tells mary trump's book john bolton's those really boosted the numbers and then going into the election. There was a lot of interest in political ducks and so it ended up being a really good year for publishers. But what we've seen is that people are are still turning to books now. Even though there's more movement people can travel. There's not hard lockdown anywhere corentin. Some publishers were worried that once you were able to go about their lives in a more regular fashion that this urge to curl up with a book and escape might leave people but it turns out so far. People are still reading quite a bit. We've seen a resurgence of fiction. Sales adult fiction is back. Nonfiction is holding pretty steady too. So that's great in a my right to say speaking of nonfiction that were still in a trump influenced reading cycle. Yes very interesting. Because i think as a talked on the podcast before publishers really thought once we had changed the administration we might not have the same level of interest in political bucks and there was a pretty substantial dip at the start of the new administration. The what they called. The trump bump certainly tapered off a bit which was certainly expected. Not only with trump no longer in office in generating headlines in generating cable news coverage. But you often see. After an election year. When interest is sky high in politics you often see dip the following year. He notes not a midterm election year. Not a presidential election year but even though there was that that dip in the first half of this year there's a bunch of political titles that are taking off right now so if you look at the top of the nonfiction bestseller lists crammed was these. Titles there's new books about the trump administration and looking at his last year in office with some explicit news and some of those have actually sold almost as well as you would expect when he was in office for example. I alone can fix it. Which is an account by the washington. Post reporter carolyn Rucker has sold better than their book. That came out when he was in office which was surprising. Second book covers his administration's response to the pandemic primarily. Yes and it also gets into his final months in office and his dispute of the election results and his efforts to overturn the results of the elections. So there's a lot of new information about what went on in the white house during that period. The other book that on the bestseller list is by us army. Lieutenant colonel alexander bandmann. Who was a key figure in the impeachment. President trump is first impeachment over the ukraine so he has a book out now called here right matters and that selling very well. I won't for this book scan. Release these numbers visit it. Every six months every quarter the skin has weekly reports and then they will do monthly reports as well and they also slice days things based on genre so they track the sale of political books than they did. See that in the for seven months of this year of sales for political fell eighteen percent compared to twenty twenty but even though they've fallen political book sales are still well about their twenty sixteen level and their twenty nineteen level so publishers have seen. Is that all these new year's that were drawn into the genre perhaps because donald trump or just because of a polarization in during his office has many of them have stuck around so even they don't have these blockbusters by mary Boulton you still have people who may be looking for more. Trump has another book coming out later this year. Yes that's right mary. Trump has another book coming out sue a few other authors who really capitalized on interest in trump for example michael wolff just hadn't book out. Bob woodward has one coming so we're seeing some sequels in even trilogy of like the marvel universe will be interesting to talk to you later in the year because obviously as you said last year is second half was especially strong. So it'll be interesting to see how it compares contrasts with this year. Yes and i think another question for the fall because there's so many big novels coming out. This fall literary novels end commercial fiction. I think there's going to be extremely dangerous. there's questions again about supply chain if you remember during the pandemic. It was an issue but even before that publishers tried to get the infrastructure just right so that they can resupply but stores and stuff runs out there not frenching as many copies as they used to because they don't wanna take those returns books don't sell restore the warehouses but sometimes results bookseller out in. They can't reprint them fast. Enough to monitor in the coming months and luckily we have you on all the time. So we'll talk about it to thanks. John are critics jennifer salai to garner. Join us now to talk about the latest in literary criticism. Hey there. I pamela channel. Let's start with you. What did you write about this week. So i reviewed a book recently. It's called reign of terror and the author is spencer ackerman who is a longtime national security reporter for various publications including the new republic wired the guardian and this is a book that presents what i sometimes call a blunt force thesis which i feel like sometimes makes a book maybe sound more simplistic than it actually is and this. I should preface by saying this is a very good book and the subtitle is how the nine eleven era stabilized america and produced trump. You mix very clear that this isn't a monaco argument. He's basically saying and he's showing. He takes us through chronologically the past twenty years and he shows us how not only did the forever wars in afghanistan in iraq on the war of terror. Not only did they to stabilize the middle east but they also to stabilize things at home and essentially how they did. This is by fighting wars where it wasn't really clear. What victory or peace would really look like or entail so what that meant was that it constantly had to tap into this vague sense of civilizational conflict. An existential threat. The also makes clear that presidents at various points have tried to say well. We're not fighting a war against muslims. I mean george. Bush said this at some points but at the same time he also bush also called it a crusade against terror and so what stood was tap into a longstanding strain of nativist sentiment in the us that coupled with long prolonged national humiliation really made it easy for somebody like trump to seize and essentially experienced this totally unexpected at the time political rise. I should say that you know the book is really well written. You know as i said. Even if it's a blunt force thesis he's he's very good. I think showing step by step taking us through time showing exactly how these things happened and how they connect in a way. That doesn't feel over. Determined and i was really impressed by the book and i think even people who don't necessarily come to the same conclusion as akron will find a really illuminating so we're coming upon the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven. I imagine this is one of many books that have crossed your desk. Jn that are reexamining either. The event itself the events leading up to the attacks of nine eleven or the subsequent wars and foreign policy domestic policy related to nine eleven cents. Are you getting a lot of those books. And and how do you decide which ones to read and review. There are a number of books although because nine eleven was such a transformative event in the american experience that you know we've had books about it almost from the very beginning nonfiction books describing the decision making about how america responded describing the path that led to the attacks in terms of what was going on in afghanistan and in terms of deciding what to review really interested in looking at now. I think our books that really take into account the full scope of what's happened in the last twenty years. And i think that this is part of the reason why i found this book really interesting. He doesn't just respond to the nine eleven attacks and how the. Us responded but he takes into account. How different administrations responded. He looks very closely at for example. How the obama administration responded and barack obama. If you'll recall was somebody who was very much at least when he was campaigning had presented himself as somebody who was against the forever wars but then once he got into office as akron shows. Obama was released somebody who decided to put them on what he called. A more sustainable footing the war on terror would be something that was more sustainable. And so something that would be managed in such a way. And i think one of the things that akron shows is that the centrist establishments of both parties thought that the american response and the forever wars were something that could be managed. That could be done in such a way that wouldn't necessarily have much political blowback and what he shows us that that wasn't the case. All right. this is kind of big in general question. But i'm curious. What was the best nine eleven related nonfiction book. That you've read up until this point at least did you read the looming tower. Yes yes ethic lawrence right. He's somebody who and he recently wrote a book about the pandemic. And we're still in the pandemic. I mean he's somebody who in terms of giving a narrative account. That's definitely one of the books that are up there. The thing about nine eleven and the way that it has transformed should not only the world but also the united states itself. I think is a song going question and it is fascinating to see how writers at different points have handled that. Because i think you know before twenty sixteen i mean nobody or at least not very many people necessarily thought that trump who at that point was known. As the host of imp- renters would be president before twenty twenty. We wouldn't necessarily have known that we're living through pennock. You know the way that writers not only respond to the moment and the way the moment has changed but also try to incorporate the long history to that but that becomes an increasingly interesting question for me especially when it comes to the subject. You know it's odd for me. I almost have the opposite reaction. I find that. I'm drawn to the books that home in very closely to the events of the day like the talks like one hundred and two minutes of the only plan in the sky. And i think it's because maybe because we were all kind of there but not there even as it was going on you had such a narrow sense of what you actually seeing. I don't know if you read jen. Seniors piece in the atlanta. I haven't read that yet. I'm saving it. But i've i've heard very good things about of it's so good and i think one of the things. She makes clear at some point in the piece is that everyone was left with out a sense of what actually happened during those final moments. Nobody knows nobody knows what that was like for those who were there. And it's kind of that mystery in that op sentence that i think in a strange way maybe many of us are trying to fill in. Just somehow get a grasp on it. Oh sure no. That's definitely the case. Just one more thing about this ackerman book is that. He's he's very clear. You know in terms of actual trauma that people experienced on september eleventh. The death the devastation. The shock about what happened. I mean that's real. I feel like. I've read some critical accounts of the war on terror. That almost tried to downplay that and he doesn't do that thankfully but he also says that when it comes to the reaction of the most powerful military in the world that obviously the trauma was real and that's important to think about but at the same time what it did was that it led to these throwing things at what happened and lashing out in a way. That didn't necessarily think very clearly about okay. When will this be over. How will we consider it over. What are the things that we are willing to do and not do. In order to fight this war on terror you know and so he goes through for example. The issue of torture. That's why i'm also interested in these books. Because i do think that we all have our own personal experiences of september eleventh which i think are really important an important to share but i also feel like he really contextualized away that i think it's really necessary. I mean i think you know we've had twenty years of forever worse and this is something that he asked us to ask of ourselves. Okay what is it that we're willing to countenance. What is it that we're willing to tolerate. And what does an endgame look like to the united states so dwight tell us what you reviewed recently. I reviewed rita dove's new book of poems. It's called playlist for the apocalypse rita dove she's our former Laureate or places like to say and your she's won the pulitzer prize her book of collected poems which came out in two thousand and four is just my favorite books of poetry written the last twenty five years but her new and it's a sad book in some ways because she announces that she has and has had multiple sclerosis for about two decades now and so some of the poems about that but they're still about joy in their about always been a big dancer in her poems and she she's still writing about things hurt her. Ms is intermittent. She writes which is which has been a good thing for her. The pumps are just so literate about american history or about food about being alive in the great mix of high and low and her worked really appeals to me and does she talk about still dancing. Isn't that something that helped turn with her. Ms your it helped her bid. Get your scan. Do it any longer. But it's it's always been a metaphor in her work. It's one of her sort of typical things that she talks about. She calls america's blistered shining republic. Some are right on the news. She writes about black lives matter insurance but other recent topics in history but she has this great long sense of history as well tonight you also mentioned in review the title of it was something that trump tattoo you well. It's a pretty great titled. Thank me played list for the puck. It's it's one of those titles that jumps into your arms. When i first saw it. I worried for second. I worried that it's a really good title. It's also a slightly title. I worried that she would just be riffing on the news and It's not that at all as poems about a lot of the major civil rights figures. Yes pumps that nights and forty one is called girls on the town mentioned. Forty six elevator man nineteen forty-nine she's shuffles back and forth through history ends up in the present it actually weld me up at the end and i actually wrote her publisher to make sure that she was okay. Because some of the pumps the quite dark. And she okay. I'm glad to say and the book itself overall is an utterly dark book. But there's this weight of not just history but a mortality ignorance book. I think it's quite beautiful all right. Let's down the titles of books that you wrote about again jen. So i reviewed reign of terror. How the nine. Eleven era is stabilized. America and produce trump by spencer ackerman and i reviewed playlist the apocalypse homeless by rita dove. Remember there's more at ny times dot com slash books and you can always write to us at books at ny times dot com. I write back not right away. But i do. The book review. Podcast is produced by the greek pedro rossato from head. Stubborn media with a major assist for my colleague john williams. Thanks for listening for the new york. Times i'm pamela paul.

william maxwell maxwell pamela new york times illinois ash davidson Ao scott Ao scott joins william maxwell turney Updike mary mccarthy jd saling william maximal David foster wallace theodore Mrs dalloway abigail king university of illinois harriet america William maxwell professor jian pembroke university
Enjoy the Decay

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

39:34 min | 3 months ago

Enjoy the Decay

"Hey it's buck sexton. If you feel like a lot of the country's gone mad got covid lockdowns and all kinds of crazy marxist tyranny from the democrats. You're not alone in fact you've got reinforcements at the ready. Join me every day to be a part of a common sense conversation. We fight the madness of the left speaker truth and bring together like minded people the buck sexton show. You can listen to the buck sexton. Show podcast every weekday on the iheartradio app apple. Podcast or wherever. You get your podcast. Abraham lincoln radio studio and george washington broadcast center armstrong and joe armstrong and getty show recently took me to a street. Fair you guys our ministry fair you know. The trauma like people with no teeth are making keychain. You know it's a typical girlfriend. It's gonna take all right. She's like all excited. He's like swinging my arm. Rangpur lightning sort of scaffolding to fall down on my head so she comes up i play. She comes up to his big table. Nothing by homemade jewelry homemade jewelry. It's got twigs in it. Macaroni right funky. Trying on the earrings do you. These are nice. I want to be like they'd be in a store. Groove structure would be built around this guy from the mandalorian there. Yes different planet there. You go so. I get different ways doing thing over in england a faggot england. I guess i've heard that yes. Boris johnson wants to meet with social media firms. Over racist abuse of england. Players have been hearing about this because several the players on the english soccer team that lost to italy in shootout over the weekend were black men who failed to score. Apparently a lot of people been hurling a lot of racist stuff and that's that's horribly awful and terrible. And why do you gotta do that. Don't do good thing in. England didn't lose the shootout with italy in nineteen forty-five They were tougher than johnson says. The social media companies should hand over the details of the identity identities of those responsible for racist abuse. That's something we expect. Social media companies do everything they can to identify these people. We have such a different view of this sort of thing in england than we have in the united states absolutely amazing. Oh yeah absolutely. They have all sorts of different rules and laws that you can get prosecuted if you just hurt. Somebody's feelings if you say you know. A lot of the islamic world is really repressive. that's that can be taken as an insult against their religion. You're in trouble. Bow joe with his tussled. Hair said It this went on the dark spaces of the internet and he calls on the internet companies to police themselves. Better to get rid of this sort of content or there will be. There'll be problems so it's kind of what we've been talking about in the united states if the government is saying hey social media companies do this or we're going to make life difficult for you How much sway do they have. Over them and How much policing are you supposed to. How would you do it. How much are you gonna do it. You know where does it cross the line if you really criticizing the player when you could get rid of in bombs and stuff like that i suppose but You know this. This is a different case. Because it's it's horrible and it's it's indefensible in. It's stupid and the rest of it but the censors always always always overreach. They always abuse their authority. They always step on people's rights and they always will who knows maybe next they'll censor anybody suggesting Cove nineteen leaked out of a lab. What do you think about the social media. Companies handing over the identities of these people to the government. I think that's a terrible idea. And of course again. If you know. English law i think is dumb in terms of the Insulting people's religions laws in particular and extensive racism. To which of course is loathsome. But i suppose if you ran a foul of the law in it's a crime. I would have to know about england's codes for privacy and then phone records and the rest of it. I don't know it's kind of a legal question a brief look at where we are with copen. It's brief don't tune out the delta very anti you know is the main variants when we're talking about kobe we're talking about the delta variant cases. It doubled in three weeks in the united states They're going up pretty rapidly and now dads are starting to tick up after hitting a low of worry down to two hundred a day at some point. Now they're starting to pick back up again and in states where they got low vaccination rates mississippi. I think is last on the list vaccinating. They've got seven kids in the icu to on life support currently while there have been many kids die in the entire year. And a half. We've been doing this and the whole country so the fact that they've got seven kids in the icu and to life support is is notable. I think well they think the delta very may be tougher on kids. That's it's hard to is really changed my calculation i wasn't planning on getting my kids vaccinated at all and i haven't really thought about it but if it turns out this delta very kids can get it and actually get sick home ballgame then. Yeah yeah can you imagine. Schools closed for another year. What do we do. Why would schools closed for another year. Yeah oh yeah. Yeah for not successful in getting kids vaccinated. Sorry i was daydreaming about the strategies that oh my god i mean if because if kids start getting really sick and dying and you don't have five six seven eight year olds Vaccinated yet not sure it's safe. That could be just horrific next year plus it would just take a while if they if they if they announced today and it wouldn't be today. It'd be a month from now on schools about ready to start. If they announced today though that up delta very gets kids makes him sick. Gotta get him vaccinated. You remember how slow the rollout was. i mean. Is it the same exact vaccine for kids as a result the belief so young and it shouldn't be that hard because the vaccine already out there and we got the places set up and all that well yes so but first of all. You have to prove that it's safe for kids and then secondly you have to get buy in from people that they will go ahead and get their little kid jabbed and the percentages we've seen opt-outs among the adult population. I think will be dwarfed by the people who don't want their kids to get you very good point. Only fifty five percent of americans have received at least one though so far. I think that includes all americans because for adults it's higher than that but if you've got if you've got thirty percent of adults who aren't going to get it you know what would be. The percentage of people aren't going to give it to their kids got about. It'd be half. Then what do you do. I don't know why you could hear. Maybe maybe you open up. The school for people are willing to get their kids jabbed. I think i would let my kids get the shot. I don't know if my wife go along with that. we'd have to talk it over. Yeah well i'd sure like to get more data definitely for its yeah. I've made a reasonably rigorous analysis of it and one foot in the grave. What's it gonna do to us exactly. I need to get out of the way anyway. Biologically speaking so and plus have done plenty of reading and asking around. I feel perfectly comfortable with the vaccine for myself. But i'm not going to get on the air and say give you a little kid your five year old a shot your seven year old. I don't know because there are plenty of drugs. That are fine for adults that are you have to be extremely careful with little kids on the other hand. If the delta's flying around does start making kids sick and really sick then you gotta wait against that. A maybe hearses a kind of certainty. Yeah yeah although again. You've got to go back to the if ninety nine point. Four percent of kids are just fine anyway. Okay you got you got vaccinate isolate or take your chance. Terminate the rhyme. The first to just happened to rhyme. They don't have to write contemplate stuff personally like that. I'm looking over at the san francisco. Chronicle it's a liberal paper and here's a little kid outside in a mask and and where i live. That's that's so common you don't even know it. I mean just. I mean the the. The river of cove is difficult enough to navigate without the currents of stupid that that are just flowing back and forth constantly not to mention conflicting words from the world of science as they all get together. An issue heavily politicised statements than retract them hours later. or what. Have you have this headline for your fitness influence or dies after botched operation to fix constant sweating operating. They give you ticky sweating so much we're going to implant a layer of saran wrap under your skin your entire body a billion and a half tiny corks in your pores many. But she died from it. So don't get that done kids President of the united states. This guy he's supposed to be the calm one the grownup room right. We're supposed to go back to normal. Said we're in the worst spot since the civil war yesterday which is a definition of hyperbole We'll hear from a little from him and then some of the details of what he's actually talking about. What caused the democrats in texas to leave the state. Do you know what these awful awful repressive jim crow. Laws are like stay tuned. We'll have that for you. Next the armstrong and getty show apocalyptic and historic republican voting. bill includes some very radical restrictions. Like i dunno requiring driver's license or social security numbers for mail in voting. We're not talking about Photocopying id so we're just talking about voter identification for mail in ballots. Beefing up criminal penalties for election workers who break rules and we know dams. They don't like penalties. Especially when you burn things and adding an extra hour for early voting each day from eight hours which currently is to nine hours at minimum. Keep in mind. Texas already has seventeen seventeen days of early voting on election day. Good luck texas voters. How you gonna find fifteen minutes within seventeen days in at least nine hour window each day. Sheer suppression yeah. That's a decent rundown of the outlines. What the voting law is going to do. Jim crow on steroids. Yeah and just shocking. I get the political game E- claimed that suppression to go back to the way it wasn't twenty nine hundred knowing that most people don't pay attention and only get their news from you know the the half that is misleading. You not that both sides. Don't try to mislead you but so you'll hear that they're dirt. They're making it harder to vote. Yeah they're making it harder to vote than it was in two thousand nineteen. I'm sorry than twenty twenty because twenty twenty special year anyway. So this is what the president of the united states. Not just you know some lonsdale seve sadly or or or swallow well or something like that. This is the president of the united states this year along seventeen states have an active not just proposed but enacted twenty eight new laws to make it harder for vote not to mention get this nearly four hundred additional bills. Republican members of the state legislatures are trying to pass the twenty first century. Jim crow salt israel. It's unrelenting we're going to challenge vigorous through writing in bloomberg today said from the very same source that biden stating there where he said that seventeen states have passed twenty eight laws to make it harder to vote and a lot of those are just going back to the old rules. Some of them are new but a lot of just going back to the rules but that same source seventeen states have passed. Twenty eight laws to make it harder. Fourteen states have passed twenty eight laws to make it easier and four states appear on both lists so it's a lot more complicated then biden's you know twenty th century. Jim crow assault would lead you to believe sure absolutely you know thinking about. This is kind of a complex thought. But you can't throw around loosely references to the holocaust or you'll get in trouble for the jewish groups in particular and those who care about them will absolutely hammer you for minimizing the horrors of the holocaust like the woman that lost her job on the mandalorian. That was totally out of line. Fire in her over that but anyway Just as a for instance but the very people who claim to be just heart and soul for protecting black. America are brutally obscenely minimizing the jim crow era to score minor. Political points right. Now that's just unbel- got the hypocrisies just so thick. Let's go ahead as long as we Up to our ears and biden just trying to tear the country apart. Let's hear thirty. One elections is just such a threat literally shelby. Before we're facing the most significant test of our democracy since the civil war that's not hyperbole. Superficial. it takes serious balls. I mean like the size of a hippy hop to to say since the civil war. That's not hyperbole. Whoa whoa half a million dead americans. People starving to death in prisoner of war camps brother fighting brother. The country torn apart completely. But this is the biggest challenge since then. The texas is only allowing twenty days of early voting or whatever it is so this is a. That's so bad. It is so bad on so many levels. It's definitely bad. it's definitely bad. Joe biden never used to say stuff like the no he said dumb stuff but trump said lots of things. I wish he hadn't said and now biden saying things you wish had set so we're just like you know trying to instead of go down like one up each other and we're just gonna keep going that direction. That's that's not good. That's not going to help anybody now. Apropos of nothing. They did you feature in the new york times when they talk to an author every week in their book section where they say. What books should everyone read before. They're forty what should nobody. What what books should nobody read. Until they're over forty. And i thought that was kind of interesting breaking it down by age like that. What's the idea. What's the premise there. Well i i've just come to completely understand it recently. I read mrs dalloway by virginia woolf or e familiar with that book have you read it. Just vaguely nine may have read it in high school or college. I don't know it's you know what's on your top ten list of greatest novels of all time all the time. That book But i read it. As a guy in his fifties it's about characters in their fifties and it was so like relatable and powerful. And i thought if i had read this as a high school student meant freaking nothing to me nuts. Mystifying you memorize some stuff for the test. But it wouldn't have anything to me. And so i'm rereading the great gaps. Great gatsby with the same sort of belief. I read it years ago. It's often at the top of the list. The best books of all time. I read it and i think it's because i was twenty something at the time and i'm gonna reread it as an older person. See if it has a different effect on me like a lot of parties in a bad mood. I don't get it. Yeah yeah yeah. A bunch of fifty year olds talking about life from the choices they made. If you're twenty five and you have to read it or you're you're twenty one after college. What the hell does that mean to you. Nothing but if you're reading about it when you are on your fifties and thinking about the choices you made in your life in the time you've got leads can be a pretty powerful book. So i thought that's interesting revisit. Some books you read when you're younger now that you're older and they might have a completely different impact on you so tell me more about this. Mrs dalloway she hotter when she was still trying to remain young one day in june of nineteen. Twenty five to one of those books where it's just one day of planning a party which sounds dole on. Its face but you know. Virginia woolf killed herself she was sued a suicidal suicidal her whole life but she killed herself she put a whole bunch of rocks in her jacket pocket and walked out the middle of a stream and sank That's a hell of a way to kill yourself. Isn't it the old rock jacket that reminds me of the guy he he was fixing his back patio. He found the at least one hundred and fifty bowling ball's buried in his backyard. What yeah there's probably more. Do they have any idea why that is ancient cult. Maybe the mayans. Now they're both holing mayans years. You came up with it. I will explain. Coming up hanger. Armstrong and getty. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. Using in-depth genetic analysis and real time bloodwork forwards top rated doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go. Forward dot com today to learn more that's go forward dot com And the armstrong and getty show for the second straight night. Miami's little havana. Filled up with hundreds of cuban americans showing support for their cuban brothers and sisters on the island and once again calling for change in the communist country for more than an hour this afternoon. They even shut down traffic on a miami highway. By blocking lanes and miami's mayor suggesting the us might explore military intervention. Jesse airstrikes and cuba is at auction is one that has to be explored and cannot be just simply discarded as as an option that is not on the table mayor's role in the leadership of military. But that is the mayor of miami saying he supported military intervention in panama kosovo and pakistan. And and that's when he was asked by a martha maccallum on fox. Are you suggesting airstrikes in cuba. What i'm suggesting is that an option and one that has to be exported not just be discarded as an option that it's not on the table. Well let's let's do a little clicking around first of all this miami have its own air force. The city of miami and he in charge of it was a pretty small country for air strikes. I mean how you would you know. Only hit the the the cuban government and nobody else. I don't know how you'd pull that off. I dino bomb their presidential palace or something. I don't know well. I'm not calling for the bombing of cuba. Either kind of wacky idea. Right wing years league bombing of cuba. I understand the point. He's making though a The kosovo thing the balkans thing the moralize warfare where it seemed like one side was committing genocide was oppressing and other people baba. We're going to intercede we're gonna step in and stop the ugly. This is ugly. this is oppressive. This is going to result in death and torture and the rest of it. I mean i would love to take a military ethics class or ethics award war class or talk to somebody involved in that and say all right. What are the differences. I gotta i gotta plan the cia trains up from cubans in florida. You you invade some bay. Let's try the bay of pigs. Seems like a good place. You do in the middle of the night and overthrow cuba or castro would you do think castro's dead brothers old but you'll overthrow whoever is in power you know what struck me from. Yesterday's footage of cuba was the streets. Were pretty clear because the regime. And you don't hold on to power as a dictator unless you're pretty good at dictate. They employed the whole aright. When y'all go home to sleep you know we're gonna do. We're going to fill the streets and the parks and the places you're protesting with cops and soldiers. I five people show up to the demonstration. You whacked on the head and thrown in the back of a police van and if we turn you loose at all you're going to be in pretty bad shape Next ten people show up doing the you then the next thing people after that say maybe i'll stay home today. Three quick things before we get to why were bowling. Ball's buried in the yard bowl. Why were bowling. Ball's hundreds of bowling balls. Oh split of who among us hasn't had thirty or forty bowling ball's buried in our backyard. This guy had hundreds. The hill is reporting that. Russia is pressing the afghan government to negotiate with the taliban as the taliban makes substantial territorial gains. Why is russia playing a role in this. And they're already negotiating. What are you talking about. Russia don't know the new mayor or soon to be mayor of new york. That we've been talking about eric adams dude who i like. The cut of his jib erin burnett honors. Do you agree with to build the blasios decision. To keep a mask mandate for students above the age of twelve. He said no. I do not. I really like to cut of his. You know we're not going to have a mask. Mandate for kids no. There's no evidence that you need to do that. Okay yeah and then one final thing. The iowa state fair is back after a year without state fairs. We got stickers. This summer is i think the now the second biggest state fair in america's an iowa ohio overtook that crown. Anyway new food items at this year's iowa state fair bacon fanny packs quebec now quebec style. Putin i don't think i can say putin on the air along but you did elk. Sausage pork rind nachos rattlesnake corn dogs and baking pickle. Macaroni cheese which sounds delicious. I would he'd bowl about. What was that last one and pickle macaroni and cheese. Yes please. I know big bowl right now. Some of those. I couldn't even tell what they were. I assume they have a big picture of them. There as you stand in line in the hot sun. Yeah i don't know what a bacon fanny pack. If i don't know it sounds terrible anyway. So guy had a bunch of bull involves buried in his yard panch. Why do you continue to diminish this story david olson. He's thirty three years old And he lives in and this becomes significant as the page. Resets i am going to smash you with the hammer. He demolishing the back steps of his house Early july when he sees a black sphere buried in the sand next to some cinder blocks and he says oh. My gosh that's a bowling ball didn't think a lot of it has kind of assuming maybe on look there's another one not no okay. The first one. I think that is weird. How ball end up in the yard. The second one. I'd have to sit down and take a breath. I mean it'd be like why in the hell would there be to bowling ball's buried in my yard. Yeah and you know. That's the funny part. They really don't go into depth asking about the first bowling ball. What'd you think anyway. He thought i'll be damned apparently and he kept digging and then he sees a couple more bowling. Ball's sees several more. Andy says i realized it was basically an entire grid work of them in there. I was actually kind of happy about it because it's a lot easier to roll bowling. Ball's out of the way then move sand and figure out where to put all of that. So he's expanding his his back. Essentially his initial count on facebook totaled fifty balls but he uncovered more and more or twenty eight pair. If you will later he said we're up to one hundred and twenty the final count sort of one hundred and fifty eight alot olsen says he can feel more balls in the ground in recent days has got to more bringing it up one hundred six. It's gotta be a drainage thing sort of thing. I'm guessing like the way people stack rocks and stuff like that in certain areas but bone balls would be expensive and it just seems odd that you wouldn't use rock if it was drainage is opposed to bowling bowls right. Yeah absolutely so. But when he first discovered the balls mr olsen said assaults went to his three curious young children and he contacted brunswick bowling products. The maker of the bowling ball's and asked whether they could be toxic. They cinema response. They said no the after running the serial numbers. They're made in the nineteen fifties. They were safe. You can dispose of them. They shouldn't be any problem to draw bowling. Ball's they might be worth something. Yeah a lot of them. In rough conditions each of them had to spiral grooves cut in them to render them useless. Well as for the balls origins this guy. Olson lives in muskegon michigan. He said there used to be a brunswick bowling ball plant. In whoever you think you. I don't understand your taunt. Would say and if they didn't say what you don't know the best bowling taunt of all time from the great pete weber pete weber anyway. Some ex- brunswick employees contacted them through facebook post and said workers used to take scrapped bowling. Ball's home to use as cheaper alternatives to gravel or sand landfill. That ya see says he plans to use the balls as edging for his landscaping or to make sculptures already donated several to a nearby church. Oh i almost suffering is my favorite. Thanks for the old bowling ball. No no no no no no no. Now listen to this. He also donated eight balls for a nearby church. I'm going to stop once again. You haven't been to church lately you what's in it for me. My soul shot anyway. You thinking maybe it's boring. What you want to go to this church. I will now finish the sentence. He donated eight balls for a nearby church to us in a bowling ball. Cannon at a pig roast praise god. Did we come up with our clip. Come on we don't have a clip again. Find the clip for crying out loud the best bowling clip of all time. We gotta have that like under be for bowling. Well let me know when you find it. I'm going to be at the pig roast watching the bowling ball cannon at church. That's the church ever. Oh kidding bowling ball cannon. They're having trouble filling views these days. Attendances down on. Can we do to get people into our church. The whole you know saving your soul for. Eternity is not selling bowling. Ball's after the big roast. I'll i'll do it let's see a cannons and hawk. I'm telling you your kids would want to go. That's fantastic the clip. We don't have the globe. Do you think you are. I am kabc first. Half sounds like when i hit my thumb with a hammer and try not to swear in front of your kids putting i was watching the simpsons the other night and they were talking about the soul. Bart sold his soul the mill house and was talking about religion and mill. House said you don't wanna do that. Part of art said religion is just something. They made up to scare children like the boogeyman and michael. Jackson wasn't very funny. Line about selling soul jazz. Bedlam in crafting. Your taunt make sure your opponent is able to understand talking to me or up. Pardon me think you are i am. I'm sorry i just don't understand you. The armstrong and getty show texas democrats taking a major stand for voting rights. It is a dramatic effective. Move that the national democratic party would do well to try and pay attention to leaving their legislative chamber without a quorum. Was the last best thing. They thought they could purdue preserve voting rights there and try to defeat the republican voter suppression bill texas democrats fighting back in the face of republicans. Very successful voter suppression drive. Texas democrats fleeing their state in a last ditch effort to block a restrictive new voting law as the gop is pushing its assault on our most sacred right as americans. The right to vote now. You know what's interesting. I was just reading. How chicago cops are. Outnumbered ten to one by gang members and their quit in droves. resigning drove. People aren't arguing about jobs and public safety and crime and all the focus is on these. Jim crow voting laws. I wonder if that's intentional again. For the teen time today the new texas election bill would require at least nine hours a day of voting during the early voting period and then twelve hours a day during the last week of early voting naive crow nine hours during the early part of early voting and then the last week the multiple weeks here twelve hours a day to vote so during the jim crow era black people were allowed to vote twelve hours a day. Okay mr president. You've even formed us. Thanks for teaching about history anyway. We've talked a lot about that today. And i'm sure we will mourn the future tim sandefur who we had on yesterday get the podcast armstrong and getty dot com. He tweeted this out. Rigid religions like this are what destroys civilizations. What religion is he. talking about. Woke is which is its own religion weird religion and particularly in the publishing industry which If you've been following this but it's getting harder and harder to get books published unless they fit certain narratives or the big publishing houses. Just won't touch him. Here's the twitter thing on woke hysteria in new york publishing my friend. A person of color was told by his high-powered agent. New york won't touch his novel. A gritty urban coming of age story informed by personal experience unless he rewrites the protagonist to match his own ethnicity. The agent one of the best focusing on literary fiction put out feelers with his goto editors even subjected the novel to the depredations of a sensitive reader. Whatever that means the verdict the verdict was at new york will only let a person of x. ethnicity right main characters of of x. ethnicity my friends novel is a product and fifteen plus years of steady labor He went to one of the best. Mfa programs in the country has a slew of successful eager to promote his work blah blah blah. It's close to a guaranteed successes gets for a debut in larry fiction but the big five publishing houses won't touch it because it is somebody of a different color writing about you know. The main person in that character is not their color. How crazy is that. How crazy this world that we're living in. Yeah the there's an interview that we'll get to eventually Conan o'brien was talking to sean penn who normally find obnoxious. But sean penn made the point. I thought it was pretty clever. He said we're getting to the point. Where only danish. Princess will be allowed to play hamlet. Yeah heck yeah absolutely. It's just really weird. Isn't it more right. And if you slice it thin. Enough i mean. I can't play a criminal. not one. The criminals to rise up and protested. You're taking away jobs from criminal actors. How thin we gonna slice it. But now it's a guy writing a book in fiction. I can't imagine any character apparently other than my race and probably set. I certainly probably couldn't write about a woman like nuts. Write a book where the lead character like. i personally characters a woman. I'm not allowed to do that. In fiction will rise your protagonist has to be exactly like you in everything you right. I mean racially. Speaking in insist gendered redman male and the rest of it lend. What about like a just below the main character. I mean like the main foil. Maybe it's the antagonised. Am i allowed to write that. For some of to you. Or what could tolstoy not have gotten anna karenina published. Because where does he get off. Writing a thousand pages about a woman's inner thoughts as so misogynist is so paternalistic wild yeah. We were getting stupider and stupider as a species sh- evolutionary biologists right about that mark twain couldn't couldn't have written about any of the The black figures to to point out racism in america. Sorry you can't do it. You're white guy you know i. I became acquainted with the concept of devolution back in the eighties. When the band devaux came out with their wacky uniforms and their jerky music and the rest of it we listened to whip it in the car. Just the other day. Fantastic songs about don't you. I have no idea mad oregon on so anyway. I read that. They name themselves after the idea of devolution. I did some reading about it. And that's the idea that these will hit a certain point. The evolutionary A welder an apex then for whatever reasons they will start to get dumber and weaker. You think we're doing what off with trade off you know john. Here's your host for final thoughts. Joe getty the haunting echo. Let's get a final thought from everybody on the crooner to show up for the day. There is pressing the buttons in showroom michaelangelo. Michael final thought. Yeah the highlight to me. Today was when the entire a and g crew went running down the hall yelling and screaming to get doughnuts in are more serious. Proper co workers looked at us in horror. It was just great. I will not eat a donut. I'm better than you alex. Do you have a final thought. Ready for saying remember a you officially in or one. I am in. I was watching. Last night's majorly. All star game game was a little luster. But i love the tribute to hank aaron before the game. Oh cool just wish. It was in atlanta where he probably did what a greater greater appreciate. That was the whole point that they were aiming at the atlanta crown. Yeah yeah you couldn't do that though because of those. Jim crow laws Jack vinyl iran down the hall. I eight three have eaten three so far. I'm not done yet We gotta figure out as show. Are we going to manage the decline of nation and try to keep you amused as we go down oregon and try to fight against it because fighting against it is going to be pretty dark everyday pointing out all the problems because we got a lot of cracks. You know that's funny. You read my mind. My final thought was going to be fairly similar. Do we liberate ourselves by giving up. Yeah that's what i'm saying and just enjoy the the decay or do we fight it or do we fight it with a with a mockery. That's that's our goto. I'm fighting my pant size with those three donuts. I'll tell you that you like a lion uses that poorer antelope finger. Armstrong year avocado grueling. Four hour workday catelli wolf down food. There's a question of thanks a little time. Good armstrong and getty dot com. We have some great hotlinks for you all the stories. We've talked about twitter threads. We read that sort of thing. You can email us. Many begging armstrong and getty dot com. Get self one of those red white and blue eight g t shirts very popular. God bless america. Goodbye sweet america. I mean the void. We created for third. The confused empty halfses. Let's go the fines. You listen to the armstrong and getty show relentless negativity. I love it. I listen to country music. Oh no you should do it. In the armstrong and getty show. They'll make you wish you weren't alive when you're not terrified. He'll be the press. Great armstrong and getty new hutton. Iced sunrise batch coffee from dunkin bright and balance full-body blend booth so you can get summering from sunrise to sunset in even after that. Because that's when you can show off those string lights you hung in the backyard or rehome enjoy a medium hotter sunrise batch coffee for two dollars. America runs on dunkin price and participation may vary limited. Time offer exclusions apply.

bowling buck sexton england america getty Jim crow biden armstrong cuba Rangpur Bow joe copen jim crow miami texas river of cove Ball
The Great Gildersleeve 47-10-15 (260) Marjorie's Baby Tending Assignment

Yesteryear Old Time Radio

29:49 min | 1 year ago

The Great Gildersleeve 47-10-15 (260) Marjorie's Baby Tending Assignment

"The Kraft Foods Company Presents Herald Perry as the Great Gildersleeve. Great dealers leave is brought to you by the kraft foods, company makers parque margarine every day. Millions of women all over America serve parque margarine because it tastes so good. Gets parking. D., A. R., K. A. Y.. Parque margarine made by craft. In the great, Gildersleeve town of Summerfield. It's a little after four o'clock in the afternoon time when growing kids bring hardy appetites, home from school and. It's me Birdie home early. Ensure. Tell me. Why not to touch that potato salad? But I having for dinner, ready, but data salad, and whatever else is in there I got clean icebox tonight and say the rose tomorrow well. How long does it take the potatoes to turn to Salad Brady I'm pretty hungry. Now is to give his nearly an hour and a half to did it that long I thought the day's getting shorter. No. I think the government's having the sun. Go down on our late and now. You want me to Russell. You have a snake well just a little something to tide me over. Excuse me that this refrigerating big enough those to be looking at the same time. I'll handed out, very. You just toss it together. Let's see. One slice of Salami. Fix. Tomatoes celery. Let's this from the way that it must be them leftover pig knuckles. And never looked twice same, do they? Look. Guilty, but the government says always nothing. That's why we won't just keep saving them. Alex. Box. And John. Potato Salad on Dibs on the potato salad any way to ask for Leroy manners. McNamee's have a potato salad after you know. Wasn't get you. Nobody's eating potato salad. That's dinner. Case me how about them now? What do you think? Wouldn't break my heart. None go ahead. My boy and I am a sample of Sal. Looks Pretty Nice Texture. Thanks. To don't know those knuckles so closely, you worry. And what have you done to your finger? Plays on this afternoon. Let me see the school nurse attend to. Now Iraq. Did myself was Scotch Tape Scotch tape? I watch the progress. McGowan. Leroy. Up and put on a real advantage. Scratch. Here well. S Home from school mentioned school. Anyway. It's over this week, my dear. Have a glass of buttermilk. Don't I wish it was over of all according weekend assignment data Saleh's pretty good pretty could stand a little more onion that horrible domestic science class. Every girl has to take care of a baby for an evening. What A DOPEY IDEA! Of A. Baby reminds me. That's an important part of your education. A fine practically experience. My dear just think little Marjorie with the baby. Uncle more police when all the kids are having fun tonight I have to go out and take care of somebody's precious little darling. Those are the Jack. Domestic Science I hope I get cold. Marjorie who couldn't take them more valuable course you just go out and show good you can be. Someday if you in Banja ever. One of these days he might come in and take you right away from us. Well somebody else. Honestly on Komo Delicious Potato Salad Brady. The onions on the bottom. Along with a baby for two hours I'll just die. There's nothing to do you find there a lot of little things to do my dear. And babies are very amusing. They wiggle their toes. Grab your finger. Laugh at you up. You can have a great time when children. You'd rather do that than go dancing every Friday night, wouldn't you? Will, anyway, he'll do it. And don't look at me like that like you've lost your last friend who probably gain a new one? Leroy you may go upstairs. She's. Being a mother. Don't try to be smart. Someday, you may be father. Men take domestic science. and. Leave that plate here I. Don't want knuckles all over the house. And while you up, there put a bandage on your thinker. I can't. This is fine salad. Birdie here's the bowl. Yes Mr Gill's I. Guess we have rose tonight after all I'll get you another and right now if you're in a big hurt, but then. Losing Hurry for dinner. Take your time. Take a little walk may pick up guys later grading. Declare the eating habits around. This house is getting less. You all the time. Commissioner. And expect to back again today. Just passing floyd. Who belongs those who have aimed out the window? A friend of yours. Hey, I'll take off. The towel seemed as though I should recognize those feet all right. There's only one man in this town who wears shoes under the Spurs. Here. It is. A. He's been getting a works commissioner. What have you done to his face, floyd? He looks like a boy lobster I just had a massage Gildersleeve. It happens to be very invigorating to the skin nonsense. A man doesn't get a massage because it's invigorating. Who is yours I happen to have a very important business engagement this evening a judge. Well let me see haircut shave aside. And Tonic, no charge for the marine. That'll be two a quarter. Rascal you've got a date. I can tell you I hit the change. Thanks, judge say judge how about getting the Jolly Boys together at the club tonight. Nothing like a little fun after stale business engagement. See you again flood. Giants hold on US I. Tell You I had a meeting. Just because it's a little beyond your layman's mind to understand why a member of the bar would dress up for a legal appointment is no reason it isn't being done. Maybe, you got the judge Orion. Commission they do things like that. I remember the time me Lovey went to hear him read our uncles. Will everybody else was trying to look poor and that was? The lawyer addressed up fit to kill. The way it turned out. We could all stayed home. This is not well reading fly. I happen to be conferring with a new client. Who just came? I'll bet she's a client now he has to. Well, yes, she i. Bet She's ninety two years old and has ten ranches in Nevada. Relaxing now. Brash me. Sure. I don't know how you do it hookers. I'm a younger man, better conversationalist, but do I have a date. No Gosh, Commission! If things are that bad. I got a little black book here and use. Kidding flight. And get plenty of dates I. Don't have to get them legally back demands. I have blood, and apparently you haven't. Wallflower. Oh go counter sheet y'all. Maybe I should call somebody tonight. Get back into circulation. Who Can I cau-. BULLARD's. Life second cousin. Bullard's home I saw him to window. WHO ELSE! Basic Gildersleeve you don't know women in this Old Town. You can call tonight. hookers right and just walk lower. I think. Can I do for you this afternoon? I was just thinking. It's a faithful thing that more people can't get together. You've been reading about Russians again you. Know the I mean right here. In summerfield, men and women are getting together. In Nantwich problem in summer fan well, it is a doctor meets the patient lawyer meets a client, but who does the Water Commissioner meet? I have no way of meeting eligible women when I. In the paper Kim, Fuller Brush people are looking for salesman again. Now, I didn't think you'd be interested. But now that I recall misting only seen a charming young lady, just telephone for you for me. She's enti contemplated spending a very dull evening and wondered if you'd bring along magazine Magazines, who? Your needs merger. I do feel a little sorry for Marjorie at that pretty tough on having the sick with a baby on Friday night. Somebody has to do it. Let's see some magazines pb. You like babies and you know it. Pretty detective drugstore. Hand! Let's see I'll take this ladies Home Journal. Babies, in that and parents magazine, and then you find to guarantee. Your needs specified movie magazines movie magazines well. Let's pick out two or three. She like I have kind of some action. You're to. You might be interested in I will pick bb. Let's see what you have. Won Miss Betty label on the cover. Now? There was misread it hairy. In Smith's Linda. Darnell this one? Has Mr Gregory Peck? I'll take the first three anti. PD. Team misspending! Twenty five misreading. Excuse me together with the customer customer back here. What do you think I am? Oh It's been. And be united event then it's nice to see even keeping us out senior on lately, I've been round. A. Go ahead. Pete, he weighed. He's probably in a hurry to get someplace me. I just. dropped him for goodness sake. That's no way to spend Friday evening. Ben Hanging around drugstore. Why don't you come home with Dinner Tosh? I've had dinner over there so much. That was last year Marjorie was talking about you. Only use afternoon. She was see. I haven't seen miles. Moderate to spend this evening together. Where do you see what she's doing? Then should be very enlightening. You can help her. Homework homework well after a fashion APV. Thanks. But no buts about it then Birdie has a great big rose, and you're coming onto their enemy. Seventy five cents Mister Baileys name. Marjorie, be wanting to magazines now. The magazines, all sure I'll take him not the heck grail Rita Hayworth Linda Darnell. It isn't going to be a bad evening at home after all. Off The great Gildersleeve, and just a minute friends as the parque reporter. I get to talk to most of the Summerfield folks about Parque. The quality margarine made by kraft. Example the other day. I combine business with a haircut. Lloyd! Use parking margin in your home at your life. We do pal. The wife tells me it's one of the few quality. Foods cost less now, and the did a year ago. Let somebody sensible reason for using park. Yeah, but even if food prices was down a normal me and Lovey, it's still stick the Parque? Said good old parquet flavor that keeps it on my table. It's great stuff. Do US spread for red blood how we try then Rolls Muffins, pancakes, waffles, crackers, but my dough. It's tops on all of them good to. Out of vitamin here, fifteen thousand units of vitamin pound that many she. Well I figure. That's important, but the real reason we use parque it is. Is it a taste of good besides graph product quality product? Flight is right after all millions of women all over America Serve Parque the craft quality margarine, because it tastes so good, be kind to your pocketbook and enjoy the fresh flavor of Parque P. A. R. K., A. Y. Parque Margarine made by craft. Between the dock and the daylight when the night is beginning to lower, comes a pause in the days occupation when unexpected guests brock home for the dinner hour. Came along then a reason why you and minds. We shouldn't get together night. She was worried about how she'd spend the evening. You're sure she didn't have any plans Mr, sleep. Non You won't fit into. You like babies, don't you? Behind you sit with. I have been stepping up much honest with. No. No Ben Little babies like. Oh Gosh now you don't. I kinda shy away from ABC. Well. Come on then. He's GonNa take a little more direction than I thought. Smell at Roast ben ensure. This is okay. With Martin O. Mind. You'll be taken to them. Down I have a big surprise. Surprise way idea, Alabama on. March surprise more. Ben Here for dinner Mr Gildersleeve asked me tonight. March you know what I have to do tonight. Think that'd be going with Ben you just came I laugh, okay? Sappers probably ready at Home Supper. Ready Right here, very. Is He dinner. Honestly. All the evening to invite Vanover. Well, yes, he is. A few after supper noliwe, it'll be too okay. Donahue signals in the living will be no signals in the living room. A. Charlie why that is! Entirely Possible Ben game oversee module instead of you also possible. They have more important things to do this evening. KICK FOOTBALL! Take care of that baby. Better run up and watch for supper like a good boy. Good boy. Now, Ben this feeling you have about little bait. Don't try to drag Ben in on this on my. He doesn't want to go with me to sit with a baby. Do Your Ban, will you merge? Gosh, you're I like babies. For Goodness Sake? Will, Ben I'm certainly glad to hear it, but then can't go. Go babysitters aren't allowed to have dates. I'm sorry then. That's okay. I'll see your business going. Our domestic science teacher says so. It's against the rules. Gosh I'd hate to get into trouble Mr Mueller sleep. It's okay it's not okay. You are going over and sit together. Parents don't like it according to domestic science. That's nonsense. What's more domestic than sitting with Ben and the baby? Go over there and tell the parents right now. Go right after the roast beef that come along with family. Must be place. I'll pull in behind their car. Maybe I'd better go into low. Yeah, I can always go back to the drugstore now you. We're going to sit with the baby. Fix things with the parents I'll tell. This is the right house. That sign say. Beware of the dog. And the way the dog is. What was that doormat? Welcome. Nice Living Room. Fireplace. Ring again. Coat frightened me I. I thought it was the dog. That you well I was just getting my first I'm going out I. Know Nice coat. I missed Gildersleeve, now about sitting with the Baby Oh. Yes, I'm Mrs Dalloway. The school said they'd send someone over, but I expected. Veteran that. Well. They were GonNa take me, but things started going pretty well for pershing so oh. You mean a veteran going to school. No No, no, I'm the water commissioner. O! You pull man you shouldn't have to do. This sort of thing is nine. Out. I'm afraid. You misunderstand me Mrs Dowell. Ripple Darrell. It's my nieces assignment. That's why I came over to have a little talk with you and Mr Dalrymple missed Dalby Info well Mr Dalrymple is no longer with us, but. Sorry. That's all righty. It's been so long ago. Nearly a year. Now. What about the city Mr? Gill Asleep? Throckmorton P isn't that? I'm so glad to know you Mr Gill this lead. I would ask you in, but I'm leaving in half an hour. For a half an hour. Your knees will be here by then. You're right now. Mrs Ripple, but she boyfriend wanted to be together this evening so I came over to ask. It'd be alright if both of them say. What is it Mr Jealously. Anything for the children, isn't that? Q C Why. If it's all righty with the school. The school board you. Well, Almighty, but you're learning. I know half an hour. I'll tell the kids to go on and have fun right back. Doormat. Welcome? Certainly is mighty comfortable here in your. Living Room Darryl, but I better get on the job lesson. Forget that I came forward, should I? What about the baby, baby will be a bit of Travel Mr Gillis? Leave I can leave him alone sometimes with the Duke. Duke. Doug Sounds bic. He's in the other room. You can see his nose sticking around the corner. Oh He's really very very gentle, unless of course, someone tries to molest baby or me. Well. Sit a little further away. Large knows. Now if you should want to reach me, Mr Gildersleeve rb. This telephone number. If you should want a snack or glass of water? Just go through their education. I wouldn't want to disturb the duke. Besides I drank a lot of water department this afternoon. I'm in charge down there strange. I haven't run into your name in the water department files and Dalrymple downriver. What's the first name when it's darst Doris Doris del Real? Now no I haven't seen it then the only names my secretary calls to my attention, the liquids cost. You wouldn't fall into that group. What did your husband do Mrs Ripple? He was an annual factory manufactured. Busy. Yes, it did Mr Tillis leave. Nobody knows better than I do. That's the way it is with a big businessman seems he spends more time with the secretary? Then he does with his wife and family. Very unfortunate situation own. Mr Gildersleeve. I was missed it Alvin boost private secretary for. Is the fall we were married. Well in say nobody knows a man better than the second day. I'll bet he was a fine man. Dowry, Oh yes, we all admire J. W, so everybody called him w such a man of decision. Yes, yes, after fourteen years. I was so surprised when he asked me to marry him this to go. This leave I kept repeating it over and over to myself in front of the Mirror, and the girls locker room, you little Doris Panky, going to be J. W was bride, Mrs j, W W. What was his first name? Please Miss Together. Sleep things whenever that personal. Well marriage is a very wonderful thing, Mrs Dalrymple. I hope you very happy. Elderly Man. Well. None of us have thought of J. W is being old and we were divinely happy. Of course I had to give up my job. Gone and there were parties didn't I was rushed right into the social world. A little secretary me. And then. And then. Six months later. It was all over so quickly. He died was. Now, this is darryl ripple. You've been through some nerve experiences. You Need Comfort. Mr guiltlessly. A-. Someone in the driveway must be my date. I live into my coat coat here. All right. We. Missed one of the arms. We go again. Mrs Dalrymple. You shouldn't be loved. You've been so kind. Mister, Gildersleeve and thanks for listening. You've been just peachy now. I'm taking a personal interest nowadays, but you need this company, a lot of people around you, but about tomorrow night tomorrow night. Just you and me, I know a quiet little place the nerves. This leave I thought you said a lot of people. Oh. Do all wrong. It's not answering. Let's pretend we're not home. Michigan leave I'll bet you are a lot of fun. You'll be all right and we'll be back. Have a good time. Babies in good hands ensure that he's in good hands. Hooker, you go I thought you out with a new client. Going with are now guilty and beware. Will be right back. Millions of thrifty homemakers are delighted with this fact, delicious flavor, fresh parque margarine costs less today than it caused a year ago. Remember that when you shop tomorrow for Quality Spread for bread look I the margarine of craft quality. Look I for Parque. It tastes so good yet. Cost you so little. It pays you buy a wisely these days. It pays to buy. Parque made by crack. Crack! Home again. A. site. The A R K A parquet margarine made by kraft Well, thanks for taking care of the baby. You can go now. We're home. You want to go home. Horace Mrs Dalrymple. I have to make out the report. Together the report from my dreams, domestic science class really long. Symbol is. Now at three page report, both sides come along Mrs Ripple. There's work to be done. Cues. Tonight folks get Outta here. Great deal to play by Hell Terry. There's nothing by down. How the other Mandy! Why here's a five? Cast Water Louise. Eric Lillian Randolph, Ross. This is John Wall saying good night for the crap foods company makers of the famous line of craft quality food products tomorrow. Night Bing crosby will be al. Jolson guest on the Kraft Music Hall heard over this NBC station. Don't miss this fabulous pair. Remember tomorrow night for exact time. See your local paper. Listening next, Wednesday, and every Wednesday for the further adventures of the Great Gildersleeve. If you packed lunches with school. Going children and Hungary hot waking grownups surprise them some day this week with the appetizing cheddar cheese flavor of PAP Steph. This delicious Chatterjee's food is wonderful, unerring in sandwiches and you can Kuttab step into neat wedges to for a tasty flavor? Treat with Raffles, apples for dessert. Depth tabs stat in a variety. Your family prefers mellow. Golden Cheddar, or Pimento as Creepy A. B.. S. T.. E. T.. That cheese food when you shop D'Amato. NBC The National Broadcasting Company.

Mr Gildersleeve Ben Hanging Great Gildersleeve Horace Mrs Dalrymple Marjorie Summerfield Gildersleeve Commissioner Mr Gill darryl ripple Leroy secretary kraft foods US John Wall Linda Darnell Mr Gregory Peck Mister Baileys America America Serve Parque
Got That Old Man Voice

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

38:59 min | 3 months ago

Got That Old Man Voice

"They friends armstrong and getty here. And mike lindell. Inventor and ceo of my pillow wants to give back to our listeners. You can get great discounts on all my pillow products right now. Mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener. Special get deep discounts on my pillow mattress. Toppers house and much more. For example. mike is offering buy one get one offer on giza dream. Sheet sets the best sheets. You'll ever own go to mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener square and use the promo code getty. That's mypillow dot com. Use the code getty from the abraham lincoln radio studio the george washington broadcast center. Jack armstrong and joe armstrong and getty show until we get more people shots covert will keep steaming along. Which is why some places are reinstating mask. Mandates like clark county. Nevada home of las vegas which passed a resolution to require employees of indoor public spaces to wear masks while at work. That's tough news for many vegas employees. Unless you're a ventriloquist 'cause your job just gotten ways zere. That's pretty funny. But the big story. Really out of that vegas rule that they came up with yesterday. They decided not to mandate masks for tourists. So that's the big news. And what i really like about that was. That's the sort of thing that we should have been doing that. I say something funny no no. I was just contemplating just to the epidemiological reality of that usually. When you make their face. I've got a word wrong. That made my sentence not make sense just trying to contemplate okay so you got like fifty thousand patrons without masks but the blackjack dealer has amassed a protect kim i. That's that's fun. I got into this conversation with the vending machine lady yesterday. So the vending machine lady is a refill the crappy crappy unhealthy food that we all eat around here that we want. I'm not the coin blaming the vending machine company. The reason they put that in there is because we buy it but I was talking to vending machine lady and she has a mask said so they make anywhere mask and she said yeah we mostly do it just to make the customers feel better and So it's not for you now. It's because some customers are worried about it. And i said i got into this conversation with a friend of mine. Run a business. The other two and i think this is happening a lot. He wears a mask to make his customers feel better though. Customers are wearing a mask because he's wearing a mask and want him to feel and if you all talk to each other you could both say. I don't really think we need a mask. Neither do i about. We both take them off. Okay i think that what happened a lot. I think a lot of people are wearing a mask for to make other people feel more comfortable or to signal something else but it's not about droplets. Coverted near yeah. Yeah well the other thing. I run into a lot is. I'll walk into a store. Notices them going in the sign on the store says masks require. I'll stick my head in. And i'll say d actually require masks and they'll say no no so evidently the mandate that they have a sign on the door. Saying you have to wear masks. Not the actual mass. That's funny. I turned away from a couple of stores without asking. Just if you're gonna make me wear masks. I'm not going in. I'll buy citing somewhere else. I think a lot of cases it's a corporate mandate but the people the local area They they're more reasonable. Back to my ira varies soviet by the way back to my original point that i made yesterday when this came down that vegas has decided to not make people were masks. This is what we should've been doing. From the beginning. They made a calculation on. How much money would we lose. If we make people wear masks. How many people would lose their jobs. How important it is to us versus the health and they weighed the all these things and decided. We're not gonna make people wear masks and it's your choice on whether or not you want to go to vegas and go to those hotels or casinos or not and and they know that In vegas and they're they're they're betting on there are more people that are willing to come here and be around unmasked people the not. So that's what we're gonna do and there should have been way. More of that leading businesses individually make those decisions from the beginning. Getting back to the the something i read over the weekend that i'd never even thought about before is the greatest transfer of wealth from small business to big business in the history of america in that walmart target and amazon had record breaking years during the pandemic and your local small hardware store or or a little corner market or whatever all those kind of places where he could have bought the same stuff they were mandated to be closed by the government. Right the government crush them if you have a hundred different product lines and two of them are designated critical or what was the what was the term. How could i forget essential essential. Yeah if you had two of those product lines that were labeled essential in only a big big business would have that many product lines including the essential stuff you got to stay open. But if you mayor lee trafficked in two or three or four and didn't clue the so-called incense essential stuff you crushed by the government and again something. We've said many times nobody asked. Are you a safe business. Can you find a way to keep your employees in customers safe. They just asked if you are essential and then the big stupid hand. Government wiped away the dreams in the the financial reality of health of these people in these families so awful to more interesting covert stories and these are interesting. Not dull And they're not trying to scare you and they're not doing scary but they all involve ancient musician so the ancient rolling stones who are about to go on tour when the covert hit a year and a half ago and they cancelled their to her the rolling kidney stones. Hey vera there now a year and a half older than they were even then there. Jill biden old. Literally right yeah. Yeah and when you're seventy six being told to wait a year and a half is not a minor thing. Google age on maker keith. Somebody what's your current age. And i think there late seventies and Yeah as my is. My parents will tell you those years when you get to be that age can mean a lot. It's not like the difference between being thirty one and thirty three. There's a huge difference can be between beans. Seventy five seventy eight sure Ah jagger seventy-seven jeez that's amazing anyway. They're going on tour. Kief on tour in september so that tour is back but ancient eric clapton. Who's roughly the same age has just announced he will not play any venue where vaccines are mandated. He's super anti vaccine. Eric clapton wa. And i read an interview with him recently. Said he's lost a lot of friends that he's friends he's had his entire life. No longer will speak to him. Because he's a he's a. I'm not going to get a vaccination. I think it's the devils worker government overreach or something. I don't remember what is reasonable is. But he's a. I'm not going to get a vaccination guy. He got the vaccination and got sick. That's right he didn't want to get it he finally gave in and got it at. I think his wife's urging and And then he claims he was really sick and it was afraid he was never gonna be able to play the guitar again. And all this stuff. And i have no idea. If that's out how would that happen. I don't know but anyway he he like he needs to do a tour van morrison eric clapton and van morrison around like the south the southeast of america they could play every venue in alabama mississippi. All those places where people aren't getting vaccinated packed the house. They'd be the big. That'd be the biggest concerts they've had since they were in their thirties. I'll play my axe if you don't get vaccines or with eric. Clapton and van morrison. That's something what stipulation to put on a world tour. I'm not playing anywhere. You make people get vaccinations with me. One thing that we've talked about this before for the most part for the most part not completely musicians don't tend to get worse as they get older. There is a limit specially with singing singers. Yeah but like. I've seen eric clapton play recently and he seems to play just as well as he ever did. Yeah unless you have really bad arthritis or something. There's no reason you wouldn't a huge rush fan. Remain huge rush fan for years and they. I mean getty's voice got a little tired but in terms of the playing their magnificent well into their sixty and it depends on the person. Obviously you know some people differently some people are older at seventy eighth and others but 'cause i saw some rocker on tv there. I thought sounded every bit as good as they. They've ever have at roughly the same age then. I just saw an ad up on the tv for the eagles and kind of decided to. I want to see the eagles when they come through. I saw him years and years ago when they still had the whole. The whole crowd vince. Gill and i'll bet it's pretty good with musically. I'm sure it's great. It's great but it's getting a little closer to like a really great cover band of the eagles. Yeah and do. I want to pay two hundred dollars a ticket to see a really great cover band eagles. But that aside i saw don henley on is it was a couple years ago. And he had the old man mouth when he was singing and talk and everything he'd talk a little bit voice. I wrote this on. We around on mush came to me. We should we should take. Please stop doing. This is really weird me. These sounded fine I'll get into this immigration stuff when we come back here. There's a study out saying there's a decent chance this is going to be the worst year for illegal immigration that we've ever had a nation's history. It's getting so little attention. From most of the media. Violence of people are pouring across the border millions. Fox's into it every single day but then nobody else's and there doesn't seem to be a lot of political pressure no republicans aren't bringing it up because the wall street crowd likes it I just heard a new story on. Npr news in today. I think it was two thirds of farm. Labor are undocument- unprepared. What is the new term unpaid individuals or something like that. I don't yet. The majority of the workers in the farms are illegal of course the big agriculture and the big corporations run in the hotels getting their cleaning. The course. they're they're wanting this and so a lot of republicans are keeping their mouths. Shut for that reason. So this'll be my final comment so we could break semi on time. You have a desperate need for labor. You have a government paying people not to work and you're leading millions of people illegally across the border to fill those jobs that i mentioned three seconds ago. Answer a hell of an economic system. Haven't name cluster comics. I mean really. We're discussing economic systems earlier. This one needs a name should away. I came up with the idea for a hotel. California hotel office. Mike cut his mike. Getty the armstrong and getty show. We've talked about this so much if you listen to the show you know our our spiel on illegal immigration. The thirty second version is democrats. Think they're allowing voters into the country. Turns out not necessarily so. I think they're making a wrong choice. There but democrats think they're letting voters and everybody that sneaks into the country is going to be a democrat voter for life And republicans like the cheap labor big business in particular like cheap labor and both sides are desperate for young people young workers to prop up social security and medicare in an aging society. So they pretend they care they raise money by pretending to care but they the raising money parts of the. Didn't you combine all that with the fact that it's such a hot issue for some people in for the dumbest reasons really because we just laid out how both parties are in on it but you can is a republican stand up and say they're letting us country get away from us with illegal immigration. Send me money and everybody some money. Real not realizing the republican party spending on it for decades also and then democrats say they want. They're racist to hate brown people and we're not gonna let them get away with that. Send me money people. Send them money. Because i think it's about racism. There are exceptions like henry. Koi are the democrat from texas. Who says you've got to get control of the border. There's ruining texas more than what i'm reading from. The washington examiner today more than one point eight million illegal immigrants are expected to cross. Us mexico border this year. Making it the worst year ever on record highlighting president biden's failed policies. According to a new forecast now again this is written by the watching the examiner the new york times of the washington post wimp sherwood couch these same numbers and completely different language. If they cover them at all they wouldn't do it at all. that'd be the easiest way to couch. It the greatest bias. If there's one thing anybody ever learns from stupid thing i ever say should be that. The biggest bias is not within the stories. It's the choice of the stories. you do. That's where the bias really affects news. Because fox does this story everyday. Msnbc never mentioned it hunters laptop etc. We're gonna have to worst year ever for at least hunters laptop. You can make some arguments that it's partisan this or that ever you see. What can you make that. It's not a major story that you have the highest number of illegal immigrants. Come into your country. Ever euro racist. That's the only argument i won't. I will talk about this racist story in own anyhow. The from princeton policy advisers which. I don't actually know if it has anything to do with princeton and might be one of those deals where you gotta try that. Somebody look up princeton policy advisers. See if they have anything to do with the university Showed that a high of one point. Eight six four thousand illegals could come across the south border based on the current trends in past averages and the numbers are growing. If you do actually watch the fox stories everyday. The numbers are growing. So that's why the reporter on foxy of the day said we might end up with two million. They're saying on. The current trends will have a million almost a million nine but the numbers are growing by week. Month-by-month currently i suppose it will still down in the fall. It's also kind of interesting to look at the list Going backwards and give you an idea where we are in terms of controlling our border. This would beat number one most illegal immigrants crossing the border. This year this year number two would be the year two thousand But then you go down the list. Top ten two thousand five two thousand four two thousand one two thousand six two thousand to two thousand three two thousand seven so we just decided in the two thousands to just let as many people as we can as many people as the public apparently will put up with. I think that's maybe what behind closed doors. The powerful rs and ds decided we're going to allow as many as we can get away with and biden plus ceo. Same company have pushed hard. Let's see if they'll allow two million no affiliation with the university of princeton. so okay. I got that tempt. Try to fool us. Harvard consulting or gotta come up with a good impressive-sounding name. No can anyway. This organization has long argued for a market based visa program to control immigration. Which most americans would be in favor of. Let's just do you know jonah. Goldberg said this yesterday. He said He said might. My position on on. Immigration has been the same. My position on immigration policy has been the same for twenty years. Let's have one and it can be very liberal more liberal than i would like but let's have one let's pick a number and let's enforce it as opposed to just random the tides of history. How many people decide to come. That's a crazy way to run the unless you are a politician who year after year it gets people to show to the polls gets a huge contributions on the topic and props up or social welfare net. Then it's not crazy from their perspective from the perspective of the citizens and the cultures and the border towns. It's worse than crazy it's idiotic but from the politicians at works well and i've I've talked about this many times. I lived in towns living in the mid west. I know of towns personally. I lived through this. The towns became different places. Now maybe you think that's good in the long run melting pot and all this different sort of stuff but you can't blame people who lived there their whole lives for not being happy that the town became a different place. I mean you just you can't i. It's it's it's it's it's unrealistic to expect people to say yeah the music and the food and everything in the sports and everything has changed in this town and i prefer the change and our ability to communicate with each other to forget them. We can't speak to each other because we speak different languages. But i'm for it. Because i'm a multicultural as just goes against human nature shoe ever on the other foot of american expats takeover a town in mexico or costa rica or whatever and change it fundamentally they consider that colonialism and awful very good point you all of a sudden he your language your food your customs that's colonialists. You've trampled on the local culture. And as joe mentioned all of the people in charge that are making these decisions their neighborhoods aren't changing their neighborhoods. Have the same english speaking very expensive. Private school gated community. No crime everything. Their hospitals are functioning. Fine right and they act as if america doesn't have a culture that we don't deserve one they're wrong armstrong and getty good afternoon. Would you like to try free. Sample of our double fudge brownie. Oh sure ooh nice. Very good. I'll take one more just to be sure. Yep still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance Macadamia nut. I taste can take one more search. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more armstrong and getty show here. I am recovering. Getting out of here. Finally tomorrow am. I going to get a vaccine Why not because there's too many issues with these vaccines. So here's a guy. He's in a hospital bed. He's got an oxygen tube in his In his nose in east currently had a pretty rough run of it Looking at cindy. yeah we the bat fever. Yeah yeah. He's got the covert sorry berry but Yeah louise easy and louisiana one of your areas where people aren't getting the cove for Well let him explain to the reporter. This father former baseball coach. Small business owner and hunter caught cove. It and then he developed pneumonia before you got sick. If you would have had a chance to get the vaccine and prevent this would you have taken a vesey. So you'd have gone through this. I'm going through this yes sir. Don't shove it down my throat. At what's local state federal administration is trying to do shoved down your throat. What are they shoving science. No they're shoving the fact that that's their agenda. The agenda is to get vaccinated. That's really something man you're sticking your guns on the whole not getting vaccinated thing. Your hospital bed with a tuba knows Got pretty dang sick and Nope glad i didn't get it still not going to get it. You know that. Just sounds like oppositional ism. Yeah so resent. The messengers like a teenager. I so resent my parents being in charge of me. Even if they tell me you probably ought to get your hair way from that fire. You can't tell me what to to. I mean i. I don't know if you legit think that there are the problems with with the vaccine. Okay fine. I have allied my worries. You haven't yours that's fine. We can have a difference of opinion. But i don't wanna be knee jerk. Opposition guy coming up abidance. Pick to run the atf. The alcohol tobacco and firearms agency is really anti-gun and thinks anybody owns a gun is just a simpleton. Dofas probably a trump supporter you. You'll hear from him coming up next segment very maddening. Barragan descending you know there's another big win in the in the house of representatives. Yesterday we ought to talk about. But i just got this text from my twenty one year. Old dini daughter. I'm boring now. I really just had the thought My next clout couch should be a recliner. What have i become. i said. I don't know an adult. Someone who likes to recline. He says in all caps. Don't want to be an adult. I wanna save my money for candy. I remember wanting the the hating the fact that is becoming an adult. And that's something. I got something interesting later. Maybe i can get to that next segment. Isn't that yeah. Finally something interesting thing. I learned from reading a mrs dalloway. Mrs dalloway from virginia woolf about About aging and looking at the world that i thought was really interesting. You know it's funny. I was kind of excited about being an. Nfl didn't have that problem. I was i was into it. But you're already married though. Yeah i was june so you joined adulthood very early. Yeah the fitness among olympians. We need to get to and you tired of working out. Start cutting off your blood flow rapid rubber band around it until turns purple. Stay too hot. Yeah oh yeah. Shut us on neutron. It's not it is so maybe you heard about the to do yesterday where house speaker. Nancy pelosi informing up. This bipartisan committee to investigate the january six insurrection select committee. I guess there are already. How many different congressional committees that are investigating a number. It's going to get investigated so don't fall for the idea that it's gonna go uninvestigated because it's not. Yeah but in the lefty media. That's that's the narrative this this panel is the critical one. The one we must have for whatever reason we pay more attention to these hearings. The the the kind that turned into the dog and pony shows. And we don't hear much about the more behind the scenes type investigations that are way more You know official and thorough. And you know out of the spotlight. So they don't have all the histrionics that go on right right so anyway the The republicans got to nominate a certain number of folks to be on the committee. I believe five. But then nancy said no. You can't have jim jordan of ohio. Or jim banks from indiana because their staunch trump backers. So i won't allow them on the committee. At which point. Kevin mccarthy said all right then we're not participating at all and she said fine and then i can't even did she say Then we'll have the committee or what's the clip number is that just get that hands and what numbers that. I love that clip. Right right right right. What number is that. Somebody told me somebody told me in my ear number. That is nancy pelosi a million six. Nobody nobody knows. Nobody's talking to me. I believe is clipped forty guys. Do you have a heck at it. No no no no ask pelosi for her response. None of course nano dang it. I don't know what number it is. Never mind the show is ruined. Oh yeah it is Forty-nine reporters asked pelosi for her response when mccarthy accused her of playing politics for somebody with the classic. Perhaps you've mistaken me for someone who cares about that. Perhaps you've mistaken me for someone who cares and so come back to us. We chatted about this briefly yesterday. this was also scripted. I mean because. I don't think kevin mccarthy particularly wants to participate in this high profile committee. No this investigation. Because then he'd have to come clean about the conversations. He had with trump that day which were quite harsh and demanding and in the cooler light of july twenty twenty one might sound like he's anti trump and nobody in the republican party really except liz cheney to run a foul of the still verlind trump crowd. I think mccarthy put some people on there that he knew nancy pelosi couldn't stomach and i think it's all a kabuki feeder sort of thing I think he put jim jordan on their knowing. Nancy pelosi wouldn't stand for jim jordan and then if she couldn't stand for him then he could pull out He's got a decent argument though. You have freaking. Adam schiff on their adam schiff of years and years and years of lying about the russian investigation. He's okay but jim jordan isn't is a ridiculous argument but who's the ranking member of the committee to well and one more thing. Nancy likes being able to say look. How look how objectionable the republicans are. They won't even participate in it. So they're both getting what they want out of this. Meanwhile jim jordan was going to say a culture of lawlessness where it was made clear to america over and over again all summer long than political violence was okay informed people's attitudes on july on january six which is to look. It's unquestionably true. But nancy was horrified by the prospect of that conversation taking place which is why she wouldn't let jim jordan on their last so they're both getting what they want and and also getting what they don't want. I don't know how to write that they can. They can posture indignantly in public and make all sorts of strong statements about the evil of the inside man. They're both getting what they want so they so they both get to say the other side. You know as being unfair but mccarthy doesn't have to talk about saints things to trump and nancy pelosi doesn't have to talk about your sites completely out of control and been attacking federal buildings all over the country right performance a performance of politics. It's it's the The trend of the day interesting. How come more people don't catch onto what's going on though doesn't get reported that way very often well because the reporters so they they don't want to call it what it is because that would diminish the number of clicks and all they want to make it seem like this is the legitimate fight for the soul of the republic. Hey the the the people being out of control over the country is what led to a whole bunch of people buying guns in an also led to a whole bunch of people wanting to get a security system for their homes for the first time and simply safe is the best one you can get the best a whole bunch of different organizations that rate. These things has said simply safe is the best. And it's super simple to get into set up you go online to simplisafe dot com slash armstrong takes about two minutes to customize the system for your home than it comes in the mail. Set it up yourself in about thirty minutes now. Here's the bad news. You get a wonderful home security system that will protect you from break ins fire medical emergencies. But no guy with crack showing. We'll spend hours drilling holes in your house and charging your three hundred dollars for the installation. You set it up yourself in. It is great. You can get a free security camera. Just visiting simplisafe dot com slash armstrong customize. Your system. get that free camera because you used our code. Keep in mind. It's a sixty day risk-free trial so there is nothing to lose go to simplisafe dot com slash armstrong. You and the people. You love will sleep better at night. You'll be more relaxed on vacation to protect your stuff. Lower your insurance perhaps simplisafe dot com slash armstrong. The navy has debauchery problem. So we'll talk about that coming up a little bit later. Sorry to hear that. The hot fitness trend among olympians is blood flow restriction. Do tell it's called cupping a lot of swimmers. You might see with red circular marks on their skin from cupping in ancient chinese practice involving suction on sore muscles and tendons. Sometimes it's turcotte's less blood flow test. Lp these are elite who become disciples of a practice known as blood flow restriction which is exactly what it sounds like cutting off blood flow to certain muscles for limited periods of time both to enhance the effects of training stimulate recovery. Nothing counts so much as blood restriction. It's been around for about a half a century. This doctor came up with this idea. Created live high train low approach to altitude training which prescribes athletes sleeping and living above eight thousand feet to increase the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells then descending a few thousand feet to train in order to overtaxing the body while you can get the same results from restricting blood flow. You're basically restricting oxygen flow. You can get the benefits of it says here. You can get the benefits of swimming ten thousand yards by swimming. Maybe a thousand yards. Which is a thousand more than. I've swum in. Last this reminds me at a tape everybody wears. I don't. I've asked a couple of a physical therapists about the tape. And they say well. I believe it makes the athletes feel better. It's psychological. it's what do you call it an amoeba. That's sleeve. that lebron james wears on one arm not amoeba anecdote. Not anecdote facetious. What is it say. You know the thing the thing that doesn't do anything but it feels like it does something yeah. It's anesthesia. no no. What does the word. What's the word when you take a drug. It's not really a drug placebo lebeau. Yeah that's it. It is what the word when we clearly have all been disease. So most of that stuff is placebos right to all the all the sleeves and stuff that they wear. Well there's some belief that it is. I don't know. I'm not an expert in it. All i know is i've asked experts and they say You know it's one guy. One guy sold the stuff to do. They all say it that way more or less and i think it ends up. I know one of the lebron or kobe or some some great player they wore when they were hurt and then when they're no longer hurt they'd been playing well so it's kind of like you know like golf. It's like you're lucky. Red hat or something like that point. You start thinking that well. I'm doing well with this. So i might as well keep doing it. Why not right. And if i'm performing at an elite level which would be a. I you know i'm a little concerned about an injury. And somebody convinces me that. Oh this table really That'll take care of the old tricep or something. Well then i'm not going to be distracted by then. I'm not going to be worried about it. And i might perform a higher level so blood flow restriction props and outsize response from the brain. Yeah the brain is screaming your guy right and it speeds up the normal process of repairing and rebuilding damaged tissue at claims. So is this anything. Have you been following the blackout game. Somebody died from doing the blackout game on tick tock yesterday some by somebody in america i have not. It's some sort of choking yourself to you pass out thing. Sounds like a great idea and so many sites that's know with. I'm sure they're parents. Aren't listening. But i think darwin may have been in the club. Boy yeah but youngsters youngsters do stupid stuff. I did stupid. yeah i did too And for stupid reasons not really happy with biden's choice to run the atf. Sounds a little anti gun. Also something i learned from From old literature about Growing older which. I found very interesting. A lot of good things on the way in our text line is four one. Five two nine five k. ftc strong and getting the armstrong and getty show and saw in their minds They might be confident. They might think that they're diehard ready to go but unfortunately the more like tiger king and they're they're putting themselves and their families endanger then. So what i would suggest as laws people who were first on dental since they did go out and buy a gun I would secure that gun. Walked and unloaded and hide it behind the cans of tuna and beef jerky you've stored in our cabinet and You're not only bring that out. Yes start to appear And i also pay all. Yeah that's Biden's new choice to run the atf. Little piece of an interview that came out that shows him to have a pretty condescending paternal view of people who are gun owners particularly new gun owners which there are millions and millions of across america setting records every month for gun ownership and most of 'em first time gun buyers and you know why because the freaking government has made it clear that they have no interest in trying to protect us or our stuff anymore. So we're doing it ourselves. Which is why we have a second amendment. Yeah the very party that tells you. Don't defend yourself. Trustee authorities told the authorities to stand down in the face of rioting and now in the face of crime is made clear by that now. Famous video the tj maxx in the l. a. Area guys just walking out with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff with impunity. This guy's name david chipman. He's been nominated to be director of bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives even though they still call the atf. Got an e. on the explosives And when advocating for background checks shipment implied that background checks could be used as a way to arrest people before committing crimes on top of that chipman ounces said under oath that the federal government should require the registration of all existing assault weapons which is a meaningless term and banned future manufacturing sale of assault weapons a meaningless term yet during a hearing econ considering his nomination before the senate judiciary committee he refused to define an assault weapon. I don't know if you ever saw that. That was a couple of weeks ago. He was asked by somebody. What is an assault weapon. And he said what a legal term that is defined by You know Legislatures well you just said you want to ban them so in your mind you've got some idea of what they are now. That's a legal term. I'm not going to get into what an assault weapon israel. Okay so you're just saying crap that makes people feel good about. You doesn't actually mean anything. All right yeah exactly. that's politics anyway. I didn't like his tone about gun owners. At all now comes everybody's guns are going to be taken away. Huge majorities of americans saying crime is getting worse and this guy saying you have no need to protect yourself in your stuff except the zombie apocalypse. Some drew you. How much ago left. Here michael Not sure that's long enough to fully get into the mood. I need to get into to talk about Getting older and aging. And something. I learned from reading. Mrs dalloway. Maybe an hour three or find a spot for that. We do. Have the navy's debauchery problem. We could talk about here senator. Tom cotton with a report on the service branch that got a lot right about the upper ranks but the enlisted side remains in dire. Need of attention says this report they have a severe drinking carousing problem in the navy now Spending like a drunken. Sailor is a phrase that i've been hearing my whole life. Swearing like a sailor has been a phrase of heard my whole life and i think that would go back to the days when our navy dominated the sees all around the world right right. So there's there's debauchery then. There's debauchery that renders you on able to execute your duty and that's uncool true So i don't. I don't know but i i. It's been several stories and lots of reports lately about the state of our military navy getting a lot of attention. But whether or not we're ready to take on china or whoever and whether we're up to snuff and a lot of them have not been good and i just i just hope the right people are doing the right things for the right reasons to make sure that our fighting forces ready to fight and not Ready to go with critical race theory or making sure we have the right. transgender policies. Are all these different sorts of things. We're not cracking down too much or too little on debauchery not to mention the top down type stuff that perverts fighting forces ability to do their jobs whether it's politicians insisting on outdated weapons systems because the plant is in their district or the military industrial complex. Which is a very very real thing and spend zillions of dollars on lobbying and then their priorities. Become the nation's priorities even though they don't really serve the nation so it's a complex and difficult equation to solve reading from this story. Where was this written anson. When a problem with the way we pronounce stories. I never can tell where they come from shocking to no one is the longstanding culture of alcohol dependency in the military the navy's the only branch with alcohol consumption actually in their anthem. I didn't know that an appalling joke oft-repeated is that by the time. Enlisted member makes chief a crowning achievement. He will have had three you is in two divorces not the makings of a well adjusted individual who jones junior sailors should revere says this article but i have indeed coming up one step closer to a planet of the apes and interesting economic numbers. Miss it get it via podcast on strong. Getty dot com a friends armstrong and getty here and mike lindell the inventor. Ceo of my pillow wants to give back to our listeners. You can get great discounts all my pillow products right now. Mypillow dot com click on the radio listener. Special get deep discounts on my pillow mattress toppers towels and much more. For example. mike is offering a buy one get one offer on giza dreams. Sheet sets the best sheets. You'll ever go to mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener square and use the promo code getty. That's my pillow dot com. Use the code getty.

getty eric clapton vegas armstrong jim jordan van morrison eagles mike lindell george washington broadcast ce Nancy pelosi mayor lee Kief princeton southeast of america Npr news Jack armstrong biden the new york times of the wash america
Richard Powers on Bewilderment

The Book Review

1:06:17 hr | 2 weeks ago

Richard Powers on Bewilderment

"This podcast is supported by the showtime original series. American rust starring emmy award winner jeff daniels and emmy award nominee mor tierney based on the critically acclaimed novel american rest propels into a murder investigation in the rust belt of pennsylvania. We're good choices are hard to come by and bad choices. Come far too easy as the truth begins to unravel. It poses the question. How far would we go to keep those we love safe. New episodes of american rest are now streaming only on showtime. How do you follow an epic pulitzer prize. Winning novel like the over story. Richard powers will be here to talk about his new book. The wilder meant what role does w. e. b. d. boys play in the love. Songs of wabc boys honore finan. Jeffers will join us to talk about her debut novel plus my colleagues and i will talk about what we're reading this book re podcast for the new york times. It's october first. I'm pamela paul. Richard powers joins us now from knoxville tennessee. His new novel is bewilderment and of course his most recent novel over story won the pulitzer prize for fiction. Richard thanks for being here. Those my great pleasure. Thanks for having me on this new novel. Bewilderment has at its heart. Three people one of them dead from the beginning of the novel. So we're not giving anything away but tell us a little bit out. These three characters. Theo burn his son. Robin and his late wife alissa an astrobiologist recently widowed in his early forties and he has a nine year old son robin who is neuro divergent as received a couple of different diagnoses but who is in intense easily excitable very lovable but quick to anger in and quick to fly to rage and these two lost boys are are making their way together. After the death of robin's mother and theo's wife alissa couple of years before the start of the mouth you describe at robin robbie as neuro divergent and it seems like it's liberal choice at the beginning of the novel that you don't label him in any other way that you don't talk about you don't even mentioned specifically what diagnoses that certain professionals have given him. That felt like a very deliberate choice. Oh it is and feel who narrates the book himself pushes back against any diagnoses. That are two clinical to specific. He's quite aware of a modern propensity to stop looking at the individual start considering a redefine the category of the diagnosis and it bears pointing out that diagnoses that are quickly or easily passed along these days. Such as asperger's syndrome aren't even recognized in the latest edition of the dsm the diagnostic statistical manual of mental conditions. In in. theo's feeling. I think the the one that sets the story in motion is nicely. Summarized at the beginning of the bokhary says after doctor tries to tell him. Your son is on the spectrum. He wants to reply to the doctor. Were all on the. That's what a spectrum is. It's and we need to remember not to substitute that diagnosis for the individual involved. There's also it seems that this relates to another theme in the novel which is what is normalcy and and psychological or human terms when society or the world is patently abnormal. And this was a was a little bit in over story as well but it is more directly at raised here. It's a novel about. It's really kind of love story. It's a love story of a father for his strange son. You know father who do anything at all in his power to protect this boy from the world and it's a love story of the sun for his dead mother who he has to now recreate through his own imagination and also the love story of these two boys fourteen lost boys for the living world. That's quickly receiving from them. The novel explores those kinds of love through the question of empathy. What does it feel like to be someone fairy fairy different from yourself. And how can you find empathy without requiring that other person to resemble you into share the outlook on the world that you have. I don't want to give away too much of the story. But part of that conversation around empathy the idea of empathy. There's a lot of science in the book. But there's not quite science part of this which involves a speculative idea that enables people to experience that form of empathy as a kind of neuro feedback therapy. Can you describe the idea and how it works in the book. It's based on a technique. That's been around about a decade. Or so i. I read about it in two thousand thirteen called decoded neuro feedback. The idea is that a person involved in inactivity learning something or putting themselves into an emotional state is recorded using. Fm awry in in real time in that recording is stored and used as a template for subsequent person who is also being scanned in real time by fm awry in given feedback in the form of visual and auditory cues about whether they're close to the mental state of the template. So it's kind of like a a game of blind man's bluff. You know the the machine is telling you warmer colder and in through these feedback use. The second subject gradually begins to approximate the same kind of neural activity as the original recorded subject. This technique exist in the book. I push it out i it. A bit more speculative in a bit more powerful than than it is at present. But who knows you know. We may get there in time. But when i first read about it i thought who cow this is. This is a kind of empty machine. It's kind of training in emotional intelligence and it might just be the source of a fable about that old philosophical chestnut in. What does it feel like to be something other than myself. Someone other than myself when robin undergoes this technique he gradually learns how to get beyond his anger in his rage and to open up to the possibility of into be of reciprocal relationships with other kinds of people and other kinds of creatures. And that's what propels the story which is kind of love flowers for algernon if you will not for cognitive intelligence but for emotional intelligence preempted. My next question is to say. Would it be accurate to call this book kind of variation or a reinterpretation of flowers for algernon. Actually just talk about that book for moment. In case some listeners may be unfamiliar with it and what it is that you wanted to tease out there. It's a classic science. Fiction stories started short story and daniel keyes. The author later rewrote it. As a novel ended was also turned into film charleen. It's about a scientific experiment that grants of not exceptionally bright person a sudden increase in his cognitive ability and it becomes a kind of fairy tale out of this sudden huge enhancement in the ability to understand and navigate the world. And you know. I read the story when i wasn't much older than my nine year old robby in bewilderment and it captivated me in. I hadn't looked at it again until discovering this decoded new feedback made me think about that. Trajectory the arc of that fable. And when i went back to key story i was reading. Treat at his use of an epigraph from plato's republic. it's something like the. I know two kinds of bewilderment going into the light and leaving of course from plato's allegory cave in the idea that if we somehow escaped the shackles of our limited forms of perception and step out into the outside we're going to be momentarily blinded by the brightness of the sun but of course when we turn back into the cave to tell our fellows that we've mistaken our fantasies for reality. We're also going to be blinded by being plunged back in the dark and keesa story is a reworking of plato's cave in sense. Bewilderment is also but from the standpoint of emotions rather than intelligence. There's this other kind of parallel question. You seem to be asking in the book. Which is what's more mysterious. Or what's less known what is less knowable the world out there the world of the astro biology world of of the o'byrne father or the world inside our own minds inside each of us still is an extra biologist and and one things that he's discovered that can call is son is kind of ritual of bedtime stories in which he takes his son with him on imaginary visits to other planets where life being presented with radically different conditions evolves in radically different ways and father and son explore these planets as a kind of therapy as a kind of indirect way of coming to terms with challenges in their own life in. The question really intrigues robin. This idea that the central challenge of biology is life everywhere. Or are we alone and if it is everywhere where is everybody. That classic question called the family paradox. The university sold and so big. Why do we seem to be the only show in town. And these journeys to other planets gradually turned from an outward journey tune inward one and father and son by the end of the book both reach a place where they realized that alien life is everywhere. And it's all around us and it's only we who have become blind to it and have to find ways back outward into the neighborhood. It felt like each of these stories for the father. And maybe perhaps for you felt like a kind of interesting exercise and we'll what if the world were this way. What if the world were like ours but different in this respect her in that respect that is both the central preoccupation of astro biology which is a brand new burgeoning field only only a couple of decades old if there are all these millions of exoplanets out there and they are all subject to radically different conditions. What would life look like in these conditions that are so very different from earth but of course also the preoccupation of most literature i mean books themselves are empathy machine to enter to other planets their ways that we have of participating in sensibilities that are not ours so when robin asks this question which is bigger outer space or inter. That question of where are we going who are we. Why are we the way we are gets turned inward to this question of. How do i understand someone who's so profoundly different from myself and in that way travel to other planets always becomes traveled to other people. This is clearly a novel that takes place in a world post twenty sixteen which felt like almost like a slightly altered reality like just a slightly fictionalized perhaps a second or third trump administration. And i'm interested if you were as a writer and human being actively working out your own thoughts and reactions to that political moment. Oh my goodness i in the novelization in a lot of ways a pandemic novel to lockdown novel. It's something that was produced in quarantine in my home in the great smoky. Mountains in tennessee. And i wrote it in the final years of the trump administration and in in i actually submitted the final draft before the twenty twenty election in the book is really fraught with the questions in the fears that were plaguing me in those months and years. And you're right to save that it unfolds on something like the earth in those years. I mean science fiction loves to play with this form near future in which the story is set in some in designate point just slightly beyond ours where we can tweak the rules a little bit and introduced technologies. That haven't yet surfaced. Will this book. I thought about kind of near present. In justice as robin and theo are exploring all these alternate planets. The book itself bewilderment is kind of exploration of alternate earth. The what if earth and so. I do deflect the trajectory of recent years in a way that is strangest than my thing just just enough to make us realise how bizarre in terrifying and precarious the time that we've just come through wiz and that the time that we're living in right now it's that kind of deflection of the earth's orbit. I think that this book of strangeness and a kind of alternate reality how has living in the smoky. Mountains changed you as a writer. Oh it's completely stood my own personal routine on its head. I've been at it for a long time. You know this is my thirteenth novel. My first novel was published in nineteen eighty-five so that's getting close to forty years of novel writing. And throughout most of those years i was very disciplined and structured writer. I would get up in the morning. And i wouldn't leave the writing desk until i had my thousand words and then i was off deletion could do as i saw fit moving to the smokies for the first time in my life. I have direct engagement with where i live. It's not arbitrary. Art become conscious of what creatures share the place with what the land wants to do. What's native and what isn't native. And what the ford insists that place. Our and unlike the rest of my writing life which was kind of in. I might as well be you know in a hotel with a suitcase somewhere in just sitting at a computer i now feel like the writing is coming out of the place and instead of saying you know. Get thousand words and then see what happens. I open the window and look outside and smell it and see what the weather is in. If it's a beautiful day the the walking comes first or the swimming in the mountain rivers comes first and and that's made a huge difference. I mean bewilderment is our. I think different from anything else that i've ever written and it has something to do with their changing process. It has something to do with inverting. That relationship between writing living so interesting because many people would think that the over story would have affected you most fundamentally because of its tremendous success and winning the pulitzer and the critical and popular reception. But it actually sounds like it influenced you in your work on on a much. Deeper level will are. Can't pretend that. I wasn't changed by the very different reception. That over story had and there is a way you reach age. I'm sixty four now in. That book gave me anything that arrived. Could ask for and there was a moment. I just realized i'm in the bonus round now on. That's a complete liberation. Larry bird once said that when you make a make a really good shot you've earned the right to miss from anywhere on the court and there is something to that if something comes off the way that you imagine it and it feels like a kind of culmination of of what you've been working toward. I think i have gotten additional encouragement and power from simply saying you've earned the right to take another chance to set off in a different direction. But i do think that this change in locale and changing my relationship to place and to the non human which came from writing over story. Probably more important to me with regard to how i think about my day how i think about my day's work than anything that happened in the reception of the previous book. Well here's to an extended bonus round return. Thank you so much. you're being here. Thank you. Richard powers is newest novel is called wilder meant. This podcast is supported by the showtime original series. American rust starring emmy award winner jeff daniels and emmy award nominee mor tierney based on the critically acclaimed novel american. Rest propose into a murder investigation in the rust belt of pennsylvania where good choices are hard to come by and bad choices come far too easy as the truth begins to unravel. It poses the question. How far would we go to keep those we love safe. New episodes of american rest are now streaming only on showtime. This is sarah kane coast to the serial podcast. I wanna tell you about our show. Nice white parents reporter huffy. Walt spent years looking into this one middle school in her neighborhood. She investigated the school's history and finally realized she could put a name to the unspoken force that kept getting in the way of making the school. Better white parents. How white parents can mess things up for everyone else without even knowing it. Nice white parents is made by cyril productions new york times company. You can find it wherever you get your podcast. Tina jordan joins us now to help. Celebrate the one hundred twenty fifth anniversary of the book view. Tina hey pamela. So since the nobel prize in literature is going to be announced next week. I thought i'd look back at some old news of nobel prizes and i have to say my favorite one is actually a pretty recent one. It's from two thousand seven and swin doris. Lessing was awarded the prize. We clearly center reporter to her london home. And here's how it unfolded. She had been out. She was carrying a bunch of shopping bags. she looked harassed and harried. And here's our description. Miss lessing learned of the news from a group of reporters camped on her doorstep as she returned from a visit to the hospital with her son. I was a bit surprised. Because i had forgotten about it. Actually she said name has been on the shortlist for such a long time as the persistent sound of her ringing phone came from inside the house. Misleading said that on second thought she was not surprised because quote. This has been going on for something like forty years unquote referring to the number of times. She has been mentioned as a likely honoree. Either they were going to give it to me sometime before. I popped off or not at all after a few moments misled saying who is stout sharp and a bit. Hard of hearing excused herself to go inside. Go answer my telephone. She said i swear. I'm going upstairs to find some suitable sentences. Which i will be using from now on. I love this and i will tell you pam line. No you know. there's a video of this too. It's one of the best videos on the internet. As far as i'm concerned it is. And i encourage everyone to go find it. But the time story doesn't include is the very first thing she says when she sees this massive group of reporters outside her home is. Oh christ yeah. She's incredibly annoyed. She's very thanks. Tina thanks honore finan. Jeffers joins us now from norman oklahoma. Her new book and her debut novel is called the love songs of w. e. b. two boys. It is an oprah book club. Pick it debuted at number four on the new york times bestseller list very much A huge hit out the gate on our i. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. So this is your debut novel. But it's not your first book your six book. Your first five books were collections of poetry. One of them the age phyllis was long listed for the national bogle board for poetry. And your father was a poet. Did you always know that that was what you were going to do. Oh absolutely not. My father was a very brilliant man and he cast a very big shadow. So i tried everything i could do not to be oppo wet but it just grabbed. Hold me over the years in win. Legout talk a little bit about your father and his work. As a as a poet he was part of the black arts movement. Yes yes he was. And whenever i would meet other black arts movement poets they would always make sure to let me know i would never be the writer that he was encouraging. Yes he was very brilliant man a college professor he had two degrees from columbia. But i would say that my mother was even smarter than he was but because her background was different and her affect was different. She spoke with a southern drawl. The way that i do and she was fourteen years younger than he does. A lot of people didn't really see how brilliant she worsened. So in some ways. I feel like i'm carrying her legacy forward more than he is. And it's interesting than this is very much a book about women and about matriarch as that part sort of tribute to your mother. Yes and two other black women of the deep south i grew up partially in durham north carolina and atlanta georgia. But every summer we would travel to and tim. Which is the home eaten in georgia. Which is the home of my mother and the women were very much present in that community. They did the chow rearing. They transfer cultural knowledge. They make sure we went to church. They pinched us in church. If we didn't be a so yes. It's very much attribute to black southern women and the kind of black southern women. I grew up around which is deeply brown. Dark brown black women and colors is one of the many themes in this book. But let's let's talk about your your main character. A woman ellie pearl garfield who is she. Haley is a child of privilege. She's the child of dr jeff. Louis garfield and bail driscoll garfield and she grows up in an unspecified. Urban environment called the city. We never really now. Because i wanted to make sure that that was sort of vague but chickasaw santa is always considered her true home. And so she's tugged back and forth. Not only in terms of her feelings in her identification between the city and chick said georgia but also in terms of class in terms of outlook in terms of what she's going to do with her life. Is she going to follow a talented tenth black bourgeoisie career path. Or is she going to do something else. Will i hope it's not revealing too much to say that though. She's born into a family of medical doctor. She decides to become a historian which was very deliberate choice in a book in which history plays such a big part. I don't think it's the spoiler just about everybody in every a review has talked about that. And i think it's a gesture to the way that i grew up learning about african american history. I'm an english professor creative writing professor. But when i was a little girl i would see up underneath to old people. I never really was a child that like to play with other children. And i would sort of scoop into a corner so i wouldn't be noticed and i would listen to the oh people talk about the way. They grew up growing up in segregation growing up in jim crow and then some of the stores that they remembered from the old people who had been born into slavery. Like my great grandma mandy not be a so. It had a great impact on me. And i think that's why. I made a an eventual historian. The book covers a lot of ground in many senses physically temporarily. But let's talk about the physical. You mentioned the city which is in the north chick. Eseta is a fictional town. Right in georgia is that based on where your mother grew up. Yes it is. When i was in graduate school i missed black communities like that traditional. Oh really small. Deep south where everybody knows everybody's business people don't really call before they come by. They just come in hall of through the screen. I missed that. And so i created a fictional town but it is based upon eaten georgia which is in putnam county and where my mother grew up and where alice walker grew up. Mama tout alice walker. Wow the rider back. In junior high schoo- what is the rule of setting in this novel. I mean it feels very deliberate. You have a fictional small town. You have an unnamed northern city. Well i always has to take before. I start bringing up tony morrison because i don't want anybody think consider myself to be equal to tony morrison but i remember once in an interview. Tony morrison talk to bow win. We write abou- black communities these are not simply regional. These anom marginal marginal. These are very much a part of american society. I one and people and not only just non black people but african americans to understand that southern black communities steel thriving and we are part of the american landscape. We are very much a part of how this country has evolved in the good and the bay. And so i i wanted to make a very overt gesture toward that particular point of view. Will you brought up. Tony morrison. i'm going to bring up the name of another great. Black american women right are lucille. Clifton can you talk a little bit about her work. And what it's meant to you. And also what she is. A person has meant to you. Ms lucille was part of that gathering of black arts movement poets. The circles that my parents moved in in the late sixties and the early seventies. She said that she had met me as a little girl. But i didn't remember that and then later on. I submitted a book for prize. The stand and tom quick prize for first book poetry and she was the judge and she picked mamba and at the press can stay university press. They say well you now let us give you her phone number so you can call and talk to her and that was probably the worst mistake they ever may was so great for me and so i called her up and she was just so warm and kind and what we call down south. Even though miss lucille went from the south we call that. Just plain folks you now. She didn't have that sort of sound. Her voice like i am an important person. She was just a regular wonderful person. Who also incredibly brilliant. And i would just call la you know because i have since back in and saw i would. I would call her up every now and then it'd be like hey miss lucy. A what you. Dan win and she say hey johnny and that's my nickname and we would talk and we will talk about mostly life. We didn't talk a lot about poetry. But she was a deeply spiritual woman like a nondenominational spiritual woman and she was a woman. And i was coming into my own spirituality and i had started having visions. I'm a little hesitant to talk about that. Because people say stuff like you noticed medication for that you know that that kind of fang. But she really became my north star and I was deeply troubled. Big man and that's all. I'll say i'm a private person. But she knew that i. I needed a lot of care. And so she was just always there from me. And i i loved her very very much and she told me once that she had a vision of what would come to pay us. Not for my poetry but for my fiction. She told me she has seen very great things for me. You know she was a maternal figure for me my second mother so i thought she was just shannon me on you know like like a mom will say when someone peaks that you would elementary school. They're just jealous of you. Because you're so pretty. You know or something like that. But when misao oprah call me and tell me that she was picking my book for her book club. I felt back on what miss lucille has say and It was it was something. Was that moment like for you. When it's it's oprah winfrey on the phone. What was funny. Because i thought somebody was playing a joke on so the first thing when you know when i saw the unfamiliar number on my phone i just ignored it so i said well. I don't know who she is. I'm not going to answer the phone. Didn't it popped up again. And i thought maybe it's when ex-boyfriend you know trying to trying to talk to me. You know. get that every once in a while. When you fifty four you have a few. You know folks from your pay. So i picked up the phone. And i said allow the voice saying lady's voice said Mask speak to honore jeffers. And i said who is this very gruff. And that's not who i am you know. Vr gracious so. I try to be. That's how my momma raised me. And the voice. Said this. This oprah winfrey and i said no. It's not and stop playing on my phone and person kept saying. This is oprah winfrey and i kept saying no. It's not and then all of a sudden she got this base to her voice. And she said. This is oprah. Winfrey and i said oh my god. It was really surreal in the end. She told me she was picking the book for the book club. And i cried. I cry and i thought about miss lucille. In the moment. You've described this book as a black feminist novel. What does that mean to you. And what ways did you carry on that tradition in this book. Well what of. The people who i return to over and over is the great alice walker who defined oneness them as black feminism in an essay that is in her groundbreaking book of essays in search of our mothers' got one of the things about black. Feminism is doesn't simply mean that you're paying attention to female empowerment or female identified empowerment. It also means that you were paying attention to the health of the community that means everybody of any gender in black communities. You wanna make sure they're okay. So issues of mass incarceration issues of the wellbeing of children. Social justice issues issues of food scarcity. Although alice walker identify that when she began talking about woman ism black women in particular have always done this going all the way back to when we arrived here in the americas and so i wanted to show i think they hidden lives of black women. We have not only hailed it down for our communities. We have hailed down for this country. You know you have to do is look at the last election and look at black women. Organizers in black communities political organizers getting out the vote and so i wanted people to really understand that though we have been in the background this community and indeed this country would be nothing without black women. I'm interested in your decision to fictionalized certain aspects of this novel and others very real figures like w boys. We haven't even talked about him but we'll get to that and now that you bring up spelman college you have historically black college that figures in the book but it's not spelman. How did you decide when to add that fictionalized element to a place or an institution or person and went to go with the historical record when i decided to choose particular aspects of history and not fictionalized them. Those were the moments that i felt like readers needed to understand this real when we think about in america for example the trail of tears the native american trail of tears where the five southeastern native american tribes were wrenched from their homeland and taken out here to oklahoma. Very few people are aware of this history and so that was the history that i fell. Couldn't be fictionalized. It had to be real so that people could not turn away from it. The middle passage the transatlantic slave trade. That wasn't aspect of history that felt like people couldn't turn away from the federal railroad that was forced through native american lands but was also used for what is called by historians the second middle passage after the transatlantic slave trade was outlawed in the united states. Then they're became a new slave trade that came through the south. These issues that i fail could not be fictionalized but in terms of for example using rutledge college instead of naming real college as somebody who graduated from talladega college. I knew that there would be classmates of mine. Going through the book trying to figure out who it was that i was namie as so i didn't want to get in trouble because all of those people are fictionalized. I can't even remember. I graduated from talladega in nineteen eighty nine. I can't even remember half of those people's names three quarters of those people's names and then also you know there were things. Some conservative people might find uncomfortable. Things like intimate relationships between young folks. And i just felt like that wouldn't be fair to be or legal To be years also that has also that yes. Let's talk about a very real figure who is in the title of the book w. e. b. do boys and maybe i tell us when you first encountered his work and what it meant to you. Both of my parents were highly educated and both of them were readers. My father was a published poet. As you've mentioned my mother was a secret writer and they were really deep into african american literature. Going all the way back and i guess it was how was in junior high school when i first encountered the souls of black folk by wkbd boys one of my parents gave me the book and they stressed. I do remember this. What an important man he was. I'm pretty sure. I didn't understand everything. I was reading. When i read the souls of black folk but our return to this book throughout the years when i was in college. One of the things that i noticed was that at my historically black college talladega college people ray at boys in nearly every course in history and literature if they were social work majors if they were in political science classes preparing to go to law school he loomed really large. It was later when i was at a majority wight graduate school that i discovered to my shock. The there were people that i was attending graduate school with non black people who had never heard of wbz two boys and so it was then that i got the inkling that the sort of education and exposure to black figures of african american history that this was not a common exposure. This was something that i had been exposed to having been reared in a black middle class enclave and mostly just being among other black people. That's when i began to understand who he was. And then one of the things that i noticed was that he had this great love for southern black people and as my love increased at first i have been very embarrassed by their country ways and the way that they talked and all of that but as i began to change my attitude i began to draw closer to the works of. Wbz boys well. We've talked about wbz boys. I've more to ask him. But you mentioned love and so it brings me back to your title the love songs. Wabc b two boys. Why is it called. Obviously there's the reference in there to elliott. I think people assume that. I have a reference to elliott but down a correction a well. Let me say this. Yes and now it's sort of Side i people assumed that modernism began with tesl. Elliot's the love song of j alfred prufrock but in reality. Wbz boys predates both tsa eliot and ezra pound wkbd boys ease the founder of american modernism. The salsa black folks comes out in nineteen. Oh three which is way. Oh before their works come out. So i'm always sort of challenging people to rethink what we believe. We know about american history. American literary history so yes. That's a gesture but aside ide jewish. I like that. It's not as elliot. But the love songs refers to several aspects of love as the sorrow songs were wbz boys. Call the sorrow songs. Which are the traditional spirituals. That were composed by enslaved african americans. Probably around the nineteenth or early nineteenth century. It is a gesture to his love for southern black people. It is a gesture to my love for for. Black women is a love letter to southern black women and the devotion that i have to them and finally to love in the title is a hope. Full gesture that somehow folks of different races in this place. We call america to reference the great poet size sanchez. she always eases that charm. This place we call america that somehow we'll get it together and we will have love. That sounds corny. But i feel like if we don't get it together then we're all gonna fall together. We either keep going together or we are going to destroy this american experiment so there are a lot of different aspects of love referenced in the title. Well that's a perfect place to end and a perfect place for people to start reading this novel if they haven't already this love letter as you put it. The book again is called the love songs of w. e. b. two boys by honore finan jeffers. Honore such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. My colleagues john williams and greg kohl's join us now to talk about what they're reading. Hey guys obama john. Tell us what you're reading. I chose a book to talk about this week. That is probably setting high bar for myself because this is a very hard book to describe. It's called when we cease to understand the world. By benjamin abbot who is a writer who was born in rotterdam but has lived chalet since he was a teenager and this is spoke translated from the spanish is actually just nominated. It was long listed for the national book award for translated literature. It is an elliptical book. It's a book that been compared to save bald. And i have a comparison. I'm going to make a minute. It's about essentially the limits and the dangers of science. That's probably the briefest where you could describe it. It's a mix of fiction and nonfiction. It's not very long is less than two hundred pages. It covers a lot of ground. It starts with the scientists who created some of the things that lead to some of the horrors of the twentieth century gas warfare in the first world war nuclear warfare and these very beautifully written slightly fictionalized capsules of these people's lives with a very grim accounting of where the science led them both personally and where it lead the world. It reminds me in a way of geoff. Dyer's book but beautiful which is a very different book but it is also a blend of fiction and nonfiction about the lives of certain famous jazz musicians. It's also very beautifully and elegantly written. And what laboratory does here is. He does a great sort of six or seven minute video on youtube where he describes the book in english. He's he's very eloquent about it. He calls it a strange book about strange ideas and that it's about the limits of science and the limits of understanding and about how science is about what happens after the epiphany after these great discoveries. What does it do to people. I'm about halfway through it and and going fairly quickly because like i said it's not very long. I would highly recommended based on the first half. But what i would say is that you have to be in a mood where your constitution is strong enough to take the underlying tone. Which is one of i find it very depressing but also very beautiful. It's highly literary it's been written about. We have our own review coming. John banville wrote about it for the guardian. Which gives you a sense of the style of it. You're highly literary guy. John in my better moments greg. What are you reading. I'm also reading a fairly short a very short book really. It's on june teens by annette. Gordon reed. it's maybe like one hundred and thirty pages long and they're short pitches. It's a small book almost more like a stocking stuffer book so it feels like it could have been just a long essay more than a book the size and the title on june eighteenth. Make you think might be like a monograph looking at this african american holiday. June tenth when emancipation finally came to texas on june nineteenth eighteen sixty five two years after the emancipation proclamation was signed and after the official end of the civil war. 'cause news spread so slowly than in there were still hostilities. Breaking out skirmishes even after the official end of the civil war but when it was clear that the confederacy was going to lose. Finally word reached texas that in fact the slaves had been freed. And that is june teeth annette. Gordon reed is a historian. She teaches at harvard but she grew up in texas. She's african american herself. She groped celebrating june eighteenth. Pulitzer winner for a biography that she wrote of sally. Hemmings the hemmings family. The hemmings is if monticello and what she's doing in this book is really interesting. It's not a monograph at all because in fact it goes in all different directions it's very wide ranging and very intimate and personal. at times. She talks about her own childhood in texas she was the first black to attend an all white elementary school so she integrated that school but very quietly she found out later. It had been carefully negotiated between her parents and the school administrators and nobody made a big deal out of it. There was no press she shown at that school. She was on the honours list but she talks about always being aware of everybody's eyes on her kind of drove her to perform so she she really brings herself to this story. Which is a story of texas and of african americans in texas the history of slavery in mansa patient but also texas history overall in texas's mythology overall as the decade that it spent as a free republic when it broke away from mexico and how tied up that was with slavery the mythology of texas as part of the american west that cowboy mentality and she delves into all of this and looks at how it relates to american history overall and the role that texas plays in the american mythos and in just race relations stocks not only about african americans in relation to white supremacy and kind of the colonial frontier spirit. She talks obviously about mexico. And hispanics in america about indigenous americans the native americans that were in texas before white settlers came. It's funny because she talks about part of the myth of texas and the reality of texas is how big it is. And how proud they are in their bigness. And yet this. This wofford thin book as monty. Python would have it. It's it is tiny and it just put your mind going in so many directions. She talks about the link. Between capitalism and white supremacy she says if capitalism was really just about maximizing profit than the white store owners in her town would have no problem accepting black dollars it would increase their bottom line but they they wouldn't let the blacks come in shop there because it wasn't only about maximizing profit it was also about self image and being better than other people so it's it's a book that gets you thinking kind of on all these different levels in a very short amount of space she just touches on a tremendous amount of things. I said that you might almost think of it. More as an essay than book. But she thinks it has an essay collection. She says in the introduction that in these essays. I will touch on the various things and you can read each chapter as a standalone essay. But they all really work together in some ways case for taking the history of africans in america even further back than jamestown in sixteen nineteen. As as the time's did in the sixteen nineteen project back to the fifteen hundreds and the early days of spanish settlers and explorers in texas. It's just a remarkable accomplishment and it's very nimble in very personal she's got a really engaging easy style even as she's challenging american concepts of itself america's concepts of itself. That's a book. I would strongly recommend whether you've read. The hemmings is of monticello and gordon. Reed's earlier work or not. Only right around about amex's monticello because there's so much good writing and reporting about it but it was interesting to read this book and get her more personal voice in the stuff about just the more memo ristic stuff about growing up in texas in. Her family is really great. Ambler you reading something short. This week like grega. You knew i was. I your shor and i make it shorter greg. I talk about two books. One of them super duper short. It is congratulations. By the way by george saunders. The subtitle is some thoughts on kindness. And it's so short as to almost be a book. It was in fact a speech. A single speech to graduating class at syracuse. Where saunders is a professor. And i read it. I don't know first of all my husband was reading saunders. More recent book which is swimming pond in the rain which is real sized puck. That is about a number of short stories russian short story so he was in deep. Saunders and i was in late saunders. But i sort of read it too because well first of all i thought i could use some thoughts on kindness. I was having a what what felt like an unkindly and so i read it for that and i want to say i am pro these books. I am pro this. I pro the amanda gorman book. That was just her inaugural poem. I think that the world would probably be a better place if instead of people bringing. I don't know a candle is like a housewarming gift. They bring along a little micro book like this. You know who who burns all those candles anyway. All those candles are not necessary. And then the other book i read was not long and it was based in fact on a series of articles in the atlantic monthly magazine in the early twentieth century. And that book is called a motor flight. Through france by edith wharton. I think i picked us up at the mount. The mount edith wharton's former home which is in the berkshires has a really great bookstore and this book is reprinted by northern illinois university press but it was originally published by scribner's. It intrigued me right now. Because i'm i'm actually setting off to france soon. Not on a motor flight and that that free is intrigued. Me and what is interesting about. This book is that this is warton's travelogue of going around by car in france which was considered to be a crazy innovation at the time and she writes a lot about what this new format of travel does to the way in which tourists music their way through the countryside. And it's interesting because none of this would occur really necessarily to us but for her. It's really breaking free of the tyranny of trains because with trans. Of course you have to go from station to station. you're only going along set routes. You're beholden to the train schedules. And you spend lots of time. Ailing away in the train station waiting for trains to arrive or And this freeze the driver. The traveler to set their own. Course i feel. I should tell you about walking. Yes while cake also also car travel was so new at that time that there weren't windshields so when they travel they get laryngitis. You know because they they're shouting into the wind and you know we don't even she doesn't even write about what their hair looks like. The end of a you know a speedy. John and i think they're probably going around about thirty miles an hour in other ways though the book is so old fashioned even though it's about this crazy new technology in that unlike contemporary travel writing. She never mentioned a single person. There are no people in any of these places. There's no food to be eaten. There's no shopping that's done. It's never about funny stories that happen instead. It's very serious. Discussion of the assorted churches and cathedrals in each town occasionally the walled structure of a walled city or another large monument. But it's hard to imagine this book appealing to anyone who's not taken. At least a few classes of art history architectural history so that they know the transition from the romanesque to the gothic and are interested in subjects like flying buttresses. Because that is really all she talks about so it would probably be slightly boring unless you're really interested in churches to moos readers. There's no color so to speak in this book. But i found that actually to be the great interest of it. You know that it's not so much about the way in which he describes these places as putting you there and making you feel like. Oh wow. i'm in carcass. Gone as i read. But more as a kind of historiographer it's a history of travel writing as genre in the way in which it's evolved well and might not pick it up but i will definitely be saying to someone in the coming days. Do you wanna take a quick motor. Fleet into town is a term that should be revived. Don't you a motor flight before we go. I want to raise a question that was sent to us from one of our listeners. This is from an yuck shaw in columbus ohio and she asks how do you decide when to give an author second chance after bouncing off that authors work particularly when it's a well loved or classic author when it came out i read clausewitz chaggaris that buried giant and it didn't click for me at all. It was my first and only book of his. But i plan to give him another. Try someday oh my god and please do But last year. I read rimon chandler's long by in that experience was my long goodbye to raymond. Chandler didn't like the characters didn't look the style didn't like the misogyny didn't like anything. I can't imagine a giving chandler second look his reputation notwithstanding when you dislike authors work. What makes you want to give that author a second chance and wendy. Right that author off forever. I thought such an interesting question. I for me. A lot of it has to do with other people's reactions if it doesn't speak to me and yet i've read really convincing arguments for what an author has going for him or her. I will set it aside and probably revisit it later and see if it speaks to me any better later in life depending on the reasons that i put it aside in the first place time of life i think is a good part of the answer but also i would say there. There are a lot of really great authors there. And if somebody doesn't speak to you you don't need to go back. There will always be somebody else who might speak to you more. Sometimes it's enough to read around in somebody or to read the commentary about somebody to understand what they're contributing without devoting hours of your life into that person's catalog. I agree the first part of my answer was just going to be. That life is short. So you know. I don't torture myself into trying to get someone if i don't feel like they're even if they're great. I'm perfectly willing to admit that. In many cases. I'm the problem and especially if someone is a classic author who survived centuries. I'm probably the one sitting and that's fine but it's funny that she writes about ishiguro because i the first issue i read was never let me go. Which and we'll get angry letters to my address just really didn't enjoy an i actually didn't finish but given that he's a shapiro. I remains of the day few years after that and really really liked it. And i might read more by him but the point is is that i think it's just it's a little bit arbitrary who you give it another chance and who you don't a sense that i would like girl stuff from the things my friends had said about. It just seemed like it was unlikely that i wouldn't like some of his books so i wanted to try again. I just had a conversation with another good friend about penelope fitzgerald two. i've read. I think three of her novels over the years. And i really really admire them. I can see why people think she's a great writer but they just there's something about them for some reason even though on paper she makes sense to be like you know a pillar of mind. I'm not a total fevered fan. But i will probably keep reading her thrown my life just to see if that ever takes and because reading them is enjoyable on some level and i do admire her so why not try to reach that that higher state with her. I agree with you john. I feel like the problem is often me a book and there is a class that i took in college. I've probably mentioned this before. I really hated the professor and she is alive and well in quite famous. I hated her hated every class. It wasn't just that i was bored. It was like i was actively antagonized by everything that she said and everything that she signed into those spots. I know some listeners. Know exactly what badly googling and everyone else loved this class just for the records. So obviously i was the problem. I guess i won't. I won't go that far. But i do think that i did. Take it out on the books that she assigned. I also think that she assigned probably the wrong books to read of these authors work for the first time so she assigned to the white house. I think i read three pages. And i was like i had never read virginia wolfe again. Which i know is like a crime. It's a thought crime for any woman who's gone to university in the last thirty years. So i say that knowing. They'll send mail to my address to john. But i am intending to finally get virginia woolf a second chance have a copy of mrs dalloway intending to read it very soon. Another that she assigned was the golden bowl by henry hands. I also stopped reading. It despised it. It's funny now. It's mentioned in a world. Where are you the new book by sally rooney and she is an author who i read about twenty pages of conversations with friends and then i gave my copy to greg. I said you can have it. I'm done and so. I am changing my mind there but i'll talk about that on a future. Todd cast haven't finish that book yet with henry james. I realized i'm total idiot like How insane to write off. Henry james and later in my twenties i went back and i read. I portrait of lady and which is just one of the best folks i've ever read and since then have been going back. I think i talked about the americans on the podcast last year and talked recently about some of his goes story so i was the problem. Well i mean at that. Point of entry is so important. And i think a lot of times starting with the golden bowl with james is is somewhat of a strange choice especially for younger readers who are in. Yes i know a lot of people who were very sophisticated readers but most people need a little bit of an entry ramp before they get the most difficult stuff. Pamela who are literally at no no no. I think the first time i read james was something much more accessible than the golden ball and i was bought out of my mind i was. I was not a super sophisticated reader. I'm thinking of your virginia woolf problem And thinking that for. Mrs dalloway. I i did some overton. I did something sneaky with my sixteen year old daughter. Which was i had her. Read michael owning the hours. I and then. I said oh maybe you should also read mrs dalloway. now after. And then she was making all the connections and say oh i see what you know so It worked that way and now she lives to jitsu. Parenting was right and yet shaw. Thanks for the question and for ringing all these embarrassing anecdotes. Out of us and john greg. Let's go down the list of books. We read a read when we cease to understand the world by benjamin lava tubes. I read on june eighteenth by annette. Gordon reed and i read congratulations by the way george saunders and a motor flake through france by edith. Wharton remember there's more at ny times dot com slash books and you can always write to us at books at ny times dot com. I write back not right away. But i do. The book review. Podcast is produced by the greed. Pedro from head stubborn media with a major assist for my colleague john williams. Thanks for listening for the new york. Times i'm pamela paul.

Tony morrison robin emmy award Richard powers mor tierney honore finan wbz theo alice walker alissa jeff daniels algernon lucille georgia pamela paul robin robbie asperger's syndrome bokhary Jeffers texas
Mistrz Europy w football freestyle  ukasz Chwieduk

I DO SPORTS

47:06 min | 1 year ago

Mistrz Europy w football freestyle ukasz Chwieduk

"Touched to, Anya. podcasts to either sports of Tammy. Be to Comey Posse too spicy, Blah policy. Translation, we watched sport. Station Gustav Means to crush. hookah circuits threat, gene, daughter, who. Was Asada US field. A football freestyle beverage threaten us to let. People, go in yes. Toys nerve brings. Authors like Michel Suicide Joan budget shop Vehicles to Latin should probably Novel Little. Saturday. So, she think you start them pitcher. A visceral like extra ski Jackie Today. now is for him to go. The export them not just not as owner departure-eve overseas the left about. Not Worth, is you. Graph. Guy You. Can media nearly need. Such Granados in, east! North of opinions, doctor, you're so. Young the. Civil she composer on is? That Osmani. shares gumming up Gould's super ally to Internet Internet. Get Metals. I'm coaches stuck Yukos's Swab Ninety Gaza company a Basel. Bottles only get Who wished you all? It'll be three people that was trying yet with dosage body vocal the goal the goal multiple colors shook us. Mazda which resulted shaky streak will. He's not as Washington outstripping Miki's. To US each option to. Freshening Evil Islamic unique online to with few Miki bichette. Will Popping OJ's following fetish. Some stuff Samuel Jackie accusers coupon. Be It'll be settled. started with Buchanan recovery. You should have question, but yet intriguing with. GIG GEICO procedural much marcle scandals take civil which govern. About sticking eastern stymie, you saw those creating oil. bishop visual threatening Bucar Skis, threatening washing recitals, Beukah Allah. Usually News. extra classy. Except today, but you introduced the what's on cousin bowl Tuesda. Pushing will be Conceive of as many matched by Gouzer Nick big upper, co-signing the. Lincoln Pathy Altruism you'll in. Fact that along. With me out. Another be injured that nothing Chevy to scheduled any simple shoe act. A. to let move on just just Evolving is not cintas Shimshon scoop yet a on two zero dysfunction. That's got a Ski Schick ski speaking McGrath. mess up was conceivable with a month recoiling legal today, the obviously was evil Blair miles whose profits reduced you lot is anyway. She onto the echo meal talk about. Being knee onion the onion. Yeah, it'll be east triggering DOT COVIC I mean it'll be bit Doodo. Sonya million on stubble, full number Tony the assistant. addition also I. Zerzour to me. Sanjay Ninety almost System Vanek of ALEC does not. Changed that US Mugabe becky. Album Anthony Stashing gaming in Peru that are still no vegetable milk Nathan shift that Nevada funded. Kooky Izzo lovie. The problem Shkolnik nothing difficulty though No. Talk usually Novo hourly, yet Sco going the? Dishes dishes check Yuck respects you. Find view mobile that they inspect at report. Stage them. So. We always go. Dance Movie Governor. giving but has. But also Russia female us about the Bishop, Adam sensitivity, sufficient mesdames, et, the coming from A. To get his in. Get Skittish Specialized Wayne colleague on to back on training. KINTON GONNA teach not. Picking, SPOO- banishment us. Yet without. You should be assault. does not the chance to should not stay in the them. VONTOBEL's Through Gates which This is your mural, of Haji, phenol. With the volumes like volume. Pushes it affect the volume Lucia was. Softened sensitive documents is bull own. Societal National Lippi, who finishes on? To. The parties to get us. She says shifted Vogel Poker. Room for Putin, little additional public over another. School Obama. But omissions of custody not the accuracy vintage. A? Multi Washington wear ball posted such. Up Cooking town. is about as Chicago's Adeniji. Eligible say still body does which young. Jewish emotional PIMPLES body SCHNAPP THOSE Injuries stops photos. Marez me Shady's politics at by checking back those grownup. Because become translation studies snuff those. don't agree neutral goal at Dummies to send you on disposal. On with Chevelle of momentum. of Portugal Davantage EAC Treasury Manga. MICHELS Saudi enough that emissions that it just mogul, she'll sites dot h and yet John now. Thank stuck. Off School Pasa. they'll show. Not Foil changed. Back thousand immigrants coming up because we did not send Ya rebel now pseudo Vaa. vis-a-vis. Luke all the highlights tweet. Visa audible night, she captured full something also. Is Yes Bovis tonsils von accessible sobers final ship cockle. Festivals Nine thousand nine. You say strict a bunch. Album dumpster. Should be beyond yet, but those group say social pieces is a could Bow On if the tells me she's usually movie struck Notation used Just just anthony always bottles of a should get could get Russians, did you get nothing that he not yet back on the administrators any physical beauty? The. Russia's. Dishing second folk lost in. Join Washington that comes off. Cabinda vis. VIS SAKE COLLADO IS. They'll tangled wash eve. Going begging Washington's adult console. ZOPPO our. almost luscious, federal shifting each illegal y'all got. Lovable the publicity. She's checkers. Zinke moisture. Bottle also smile Reaction to buffalo is. The the. Entity but is. Your salt rushing through the auto bills meow I'm still be Dona, approach adopted. adopt allen email him up. Should teach only go ASHTEC's supercenter. Video of Chechen, you should always. Code Pink, Mauve Blinders. On and in monkfish contact doll summit pushing focused single. Bush's. All totally obsessed watch proposes Lia. Washington poofy novel is. On. Doesn't focusing. We should've simple phenolic. Agree Republican proposal. SEATTLE launched Zogaj Yuck all stoppage. Keep easy to. She'll be focused Zogaj at all. Being able to also A. Walk Nas to also people out of impasses again. The World Lisa Estonia. told me. She Zuni Savannah. At adopted policeman. He got got a book. You notice. I fed it usually washing lavar yet. This New Year's Eve said snobbish it'll Julius. They're not even Athena Lago. On your movie uptick of not a CIS since Bevan. Many a bogus. anaemia pseudo Dismissing some. Business in Bosnia and Ala Bitch. Stashower bowl nearly push I just a concrete. Nancy was thuggish. royal stuffing will so bad mostly Dell also victim of being sean set. Yakima Splash of now does not social regular book as Anya, he toys solution it omits to some options sits atop a new, Muslim Muslims to some other night eaten disposal. The in this puzzle is because stunning ignorance. Bodies about new news above disposal. Each should ain't of coverage, not usually all new Muslim us, not chagnon though. That diploma's just she. Way Any movie Nisa not Usually second dopey says he had not done yet opium of. Apathetic! On ago so it'll be. Close Sia. Built biking also AGO and. Nobody butter loves them will. Not. Michele, Washington. Momentum including arsenal obese maple missile. Nebraska days the lucky he spectacle. Regional she the limousine. Michelin. Subject wisdom, we should talk tiny. It's alcove. Moser Bitch populous stool in the. love is on obstacle. diagnostic. Artisanal freestyle. three-car of three Quebec Nutrition Egion but Austin, too big large Rica southall. to Samui. Still a bit, or something like Mitch. There's a Baiji Fordham all. The Speedily a musical bug with the WHO come Cracknell photo now that the mission obsolete Bogus. stemple Yacky Sheldon's each nv shining on school appaled. SPEEDO volume. TRANSI OUTTA Visa to stop bodyshop bulbs. elect Shimon. He has stock. shattuck's Scoble East Saddam advocating annoyance after they left ideology, not Goodwill Vika A. island where we still Mosley. Amply. I usually 'cause. You saw Internet package and obstructs three. All purpose to Michelle will be Mitch Machines. BEAVER MRIs Donald Citizen sociable that some of the finding. Blow night's second. Washing statistical delicate She was poker. You options. The van Dong back up through the fan of Mitchell's Losing both should Gotovina does evolve nutritious pajamas suitable. Sensible soap some big category east gotTa. Too Little team show, should he? Over he must flee West inspect back to the present. godown. Present didn't. them contractor much device John Chamisa. to second. E via the thoughts they the Wiki He Dementia goal. trico Vaclav Ball. gall scheme much Tunisia Police Tony will usually not also by. Off, Yennin aspects Jiffy recital. Jail or shift demoss bacterial. Survival postal checking stuck him. Austin freestyler of the moment. You've institute Populous ludicrous that goes not the thicky Does Not with Raffish Alenia. Also On rich on Chicago Steidl. Own A. Balmy multi goes all new. Some shelter goes out who knows it on as shields via the leash. goes spectrum three quarters. Cisco Boys because it's done, he's option to react. Expect conniving shift means Zach neck also Bob three king as to the needy Newswatch also. He. Struggled, Lock knife than. The super. Noble to wash SPIC back rule though to shit washing aspect out of this digitally designation. Could pull sticky. In. Victory Steidl deployed income. Bottled Scuba Shannon Not too tight budget and Lemons Chania. In that axiom mold body. VW SCOVILL for tomorrow. Madonna Fhimah both the momentum veto post bolted shekel element changeable to figure spectacle Boise's best glare. On into. She style Mashi who was to Muslims multi. nipple hopelessly spending momentu in axial. Swath. Interaction Means of idiots. That goal nickel also will be she. To share needles populated Eagle Dot, C. Nigo spectacle pistol overnight thousand. Salsa. Salt is some a sig on Yarmuth That a awesome buzzer winnable Muslims Disadvantage should being money boiling goal. Vacuum could could build his Mitsubishi. Puzzle tries to send your child. She's still be a ship Cold Shadow Mitch. Was Miss, Welby Salt, also, it'll be after us. It'll be to be. Oprah Washington Christie thickening a Shahal zones process through struggle ball in the exit, Zil Sean. Just present Sukanya music. Music his loss avoidance because stone is almost show almost keith but ice, but doesn't the out bogus poultry one. Yeah, usually not about the establishment sent. Russia your beach. Multiple reg-. Than did for me three song through Shut washing against Today her. Shopian send joviality Obama's Both women females this Nova shopping online mobile to is because we shouldn't coma. The specifics stolen vehicle new giftedness alchemy some these over is added. Raja. Stock Dope Dumpster It has also be super. He along of Che's notch. My own backlash recoup goal Administration Newcastle Studies at Washington not. USTA. Knees Ashdot special Kobe restated as a boo. Boo, washing Washington messages movie all the boy usually Nam. Smoothing movie was sent back, bucky stitch. Mitchell usually gift in the Bishop Schuler boobs spoke on your congressman, nodding thematic nyet! Took nothing. Go the! Masters into pacult. Nubia moving office titled Shell Capote. You're still misled misled. Spotted Eleven shoot jet engine have invites need some of requests. You're still shake your. At the Chevy as we go thumbs. JUST SOUZA! Football. On Kabbah NBA Postal thousand by spot. Angrily. LETHEM boop Deportivo. diplomas Gaza by Multiple Templestowe Schumer Joel They pushed. Yuccas Paul, damages. Back mission that that US next. Up. Stay Gold Soviet VM, STIGLITZ OB single deputy can use uber. Free Stein notorious communist freestyle needs to those summits notional. eighty. shelby's. Sign option what Kobe that a Compu-. E Kentucky moshing such Anthony Much FEMA seth tonight. They hope just we should pull swashbuckler out now. Option commercials watch on email cigarette like the. Neither one which go! A. Shit excuse me on the washing custom the than bogus men poems would for any of the expect the decision free studying enough you. need new stem stunning Usually some of he's leading in preser- instead. She NAUSEAM system. But was your Nicholson. Novica. Buzzer Mafia Miki up a not the Africa CDC DOC. lethem butter the chance to Vietnam genucel Pathum alleged yard. Dose capable of moving through Washington love to go up over the newsroom opposed to. Ricky, since Polski ident. A. Police five view. Not Elsie also system was. Finally just of comment, requisition cars saw bookish. Cloud it. Out of. Me Warriors. Mr Shears. Know Probably. Technique Desert Mesas. Not, such as Milan just wishes cousin. We all take fuming. Negatives as few tickies pupil put them the bureau. Not Flash is actually KHWAJA little live on busking obstacle. It's festivals few cousin. Bobby, he's A. Big All. Michelle me as Schiffer salvaged boneless was replaced bending the spot. I think Ocean Mission of Neutral Civil Tony Miles Markovitz got their. Comey needs to new vehicle, but will still poking spoke activists Super Finding Crunchy Restyler pupil finding Goukassian? Usually. Hold your Tony. Absolute Alto negligible. Nice which I need to the. Keystone spectrum three. Myth! Shambo shooting seinfeld chocolates. It'll be in that through. Three enya anaemia some abstract object on topic topic. Someone May Echo Pretty St Leger news with. Owning it to. Go after a mania, women, school inas new premium visibility Wall Street Vigorous for your. The night in. Some way only Vinci's Thal Ron not necessarily Jose of the three yucky additional bonus will eat michels earliest superstar present dot doubled shows. Jimmy Carter Minneapolis bushell. Now you've got back. Up. Washington speckling! Scoop it out. Surveys sneak through the view. Pursue is up office in. Votes should need not look at like. You can find financial graffiti, but we will what the Gina. Lamentable but as a still loom Yucky Jackie fighting as nipple shopped president. Okay exit the one usually to wishing Israel. Was Spotlight Beauge twist of Shenyang many of changing down there is. Now upstream Royal Osha Ski Yukos's. BUCHANANISM Zuberi on designs Guo Recoup. SHADDOCK. which those super bishops or your postive media? In in Washington Keystone, also A. say who global a nothing to Palapa. PATS on. way woven leather bound chance crazy stool. the name he also bombing. Schmidt. A stocky shedding opium in agenda, though that Cooper's my image at the manager issues against Seattle against Seattle. When she calls the device does manage emmy. Include as They needed us on YouTube a group. This group show. Wichita Spew Gaza manager me both of stimulants, Yummy both some inconsistency. though Benji about at the Pushkin said shove. Volkswagen. Negligent gene is. Built. On a change, Gobert the Washington. BOMAS will shine for sauvage machine won't get. Shimon Apple Trump couples that stay of Soba what she been. Through the Muslim Thank, movie. She's safe. of Sputnik Bucar South Deby's W. This decade go bill. voice Mr Sexy. I thought that eats Mrs Dalloway the topic. Will be back look. Focused on there, so? Bottled UPI SAMIR this Oil In your star. She worshiped fees emission. Among, perspective is up. Woman she said, is that obviously? Yet back with your. E. Mitchell spot up Yuga is following. Buchanan's is supposed to direct over on. The cobalt alerted to also got almost as though. Bonda! At least the Shannon both Shiva Steinbach up. She Club Level Regional Shinoto, Vietnam. open should be washing Lying Puke on both the Cash the Glenda is about your spot, mean puke after the wheels facilities. Exist as in the Expert me bucase of won't. Will Archie oddball, still fighting comey. Look There's handsome captial Buzzer bishkek-osh Streak Wolf. Today, my own necessarily US finding used to. The Mosaic Bizarre implement czar. With told you about it I was built one. A. Book as I still. Didn't what now as actually acted mountain acquisition. Doc. Bulls are stuck watching movies A. Balanced? We started over with you. GonNa Castiglione Sony Denise Butler Machine Puka. Water gone yet. SCOPE WANNA. Just number people. Up On. Month-on-month over possible cease. Because puzzled labor. Is Nobody York their. equal measure Vance as grimace of yellow Ovilla ventures lengthen Silvana, yummies the emotional. the. The twinkle as his. Ethical netflix style Anita Gopal. Football, but does to leave yet. pupil, nothing ethnic elitist momentum, stunning not nozzle much. The spotlight across the is Michigan. Algorithm Montezuma's knows. Was So nice on me and not a committee exploration of his of. All also skeptical. Exit Promo spot pro. Showcasing shipment amounts? Chevy twisted Siam Spoke stolen washing. Mitch. Vice spoke with Jessica Stidham traditional rouge you suspect knows vomit. nothing nothing. goes cutting logical. Fast Product Mash Asset. At them audience P SCHEME COBAS, A. Scheme Williams rhythm. Serena Joon ideas so. physiologically style continental Africans gig offices the meals. Obama Coulda Joel nothing Though the Maga Open Up, the will divide movie I'm just cities. Aw, the visa vacationing giant check with could have also be enough scope number. Also. Visiting illegals. It'll be. Applicable question like the nothing. Check. movie though Bogus Mythical Gospel to foreign BC Chaba. Eligible options stomach epinal. It will just Nico fee jeep overslept. On you monmouth ago. Something go via Manila's navient saying pneumococcal new. On me sweetness. think Louis. E Foca. DOT which debuted one year three spooked freestyle Washington. Schmolly volley. Moa Group Axel stuck. Entry should also BOB executive buck. Nina's. Shock Leaving Albuquerque academia. Not Stock will try it free, Steidl A. Nice, court, e wash the Czech ease Russell a piece of the super. Also as a see, sparkles vsbn passive when you to initiate anything. washing, she squeezed. are michler stimulus wash. Bowl some emojis. Nipple colonial from the domes That all of Washington activist. Bruges Nick experts The. Stashes with always despoil Washing them with substantial jostle jostle stumpage. Smith Luke Dr Audible Zach Law predicting show. Vic feedoms Bounce Wigan. so she brought him on. The forty may slow of west, or is bottles about as through in this country? Mobile we both in senior Not Yep you've got Scott. PUGH SCULPTURE SCHEME BOWL fifty studies veneers, allowing of Pretty simple postal michels Is So, thank, you might not get night. Don't come out so. Coverage boy I the most. Houston stamp of highest needs to Chelsea Akeem Some Alana. Given recital wash. Or. Gains means other yesterday. stepped style, bold, sponsor of INOVA. In Your Games Butterfly By other ninety Nixon Nubia. so Mr Swoboda other online. He number of the bone you set in. Similar trump's assistant. he is the select Some competitors Daniele on your approach district. Move Your station. You're going to be our. Muslim. stoppable. To spotty aspect is part of our. SORTA awesome mini, statues, simple much bowl shopping Washington's. Nose, was twelve shoot visible up close to that. She had multiple colonial. Start over spending momentus robustly Pachinko vegetable dishes reached legal styling notably momentous, Tuesda. Beach lobster tail technology. Cruiser tweak like. Majesty? Tradit- tradit- traffic. Events, emotional national book, Salish, threatening Vissel As down, there is some. Naomi MOMS Naomi to wash minds, but E. motormen yeah MOM's three months up Free Style the Beatles upset. He is also bound. Because little secret is bomb on dementia. Usually, she knew is much pretty steep. Ultra. We shimmy stretch on you and you can send your Allah. Again Nazi Crops Nicholas near Vile National Budo Vagina goop. Focus Man News. Me I am On from Sudafed. Koreans Michelle. was caught by Soviet. Nebraska though consoles yeah. Usually opening east of unusable michels, multiple bottlenecks up Yukos's among these Muslim watch both I. don't gain wash standard the. Just Auto Vietnam again. Russia's still swears I share copy. Vehicle, the disease throughout but the. Josu pushing sessions that still so much. the greatest slash. Noni michels sponsored up on his logo. Session or At least the the nearly hosea freestyle doll need something like a year neck I studied secret Studio Shabnam. He saw me as shop shop. Admit Bogus MAWKISH LAMA ME ON A. Scholar. Student! Red Bull Street style tipped over female shop out east The DISHMAN Is Not the choice. Faulkner Washington better-balanced cups dodger. jumped. Goto Cool Judy wanting mobile. She was Beta fish dishes the store without the gifted News option of our Alison. ninety will will be will. The Checchi. through tonight, prostitution Shit New Pam again. debatable, though table show them. That they don't think we've over to check it. Out notebook credible stretch out after the Laments Him Not sure. We start with machine. Vision Ubiquonol Bowl. Seeking email. Stub your able on Niebler, monthly knotted boy. moment voiced elements PGA. Shifted the scope such. Backing Yup. Three several just open shed me Mesopotamian all. Day face us the bank dish not as Nisha of stash. Dovan GROWNUPS Hold you dozer superstar Mr. Bendini since she got the. You all night. Busni saucer smash feature. Nothing children to all Russian is upcoming. Not tranship scoop each. Dodgers stunned me. Zo! Many Williams's you'll Ultra v shaved. Allen Needs Vince Michler Xiaobin. Washington multiversity now. waste Shrek originally executive the almost as Rouge Alpo. Shock Josh, Monticello she a? Actually be seems to be Recital to me spoke of they go freestyler. Moosh steady Gordon Arable skopia share ease she s- Nestle bitten graphic. Even stunning pushy and she said genucel Bouche Out of all. The Shipping Bobby Thank you problem. Evacuees mission sponsored Nuku Hanish sport chair he. Zombie asked by share. On. Toys Problem Romney Problem Michelle. She looked more. To the Buzzer, Mosleh, Jason skions not skimmed now. Rushing Muslim is opposite of. Both to fight. New Engine of Ron and. Your Donaldson. Engine. vowel local visual physician Greco Nugget all the quake Okara mench. than being Benji them. knipe Shen Niagara Sanam they also live in to Dyneema. Needs above momentous shuttle media is Michelle voters body. Bobby be Muslin Usually thematic cautioned pegos unusual, stunning eastern shout. Shebab simple on. which Mr street shift judge. Competency Being Chuckled Kunsi. Michels the ship Rosa. with Rosters Nullity Shikwati, but I'm enough. Buchatskiy RUFO mucus round cost too much. Figured out see those. college. Want to description you. Stimulus stool muscled You. Look at that goes A. New Stop back some in years to somewhere lovie Smith etc, see should not east, okay, usery Stanishev beach needle. On, little shogren inches UNOPPOSED THROUGH ZAPPA May. May Hunnicutt who Benjamin Bamian Dashi. Record has done it so I postal, just pretty stable of Nova. Scotia, the of his number of them, loose for MVSA Schimmel up doing three. Yes, August Malaysia usually decision. We Royal, not a mom, not sell those shares. On us, not to vendor, which it might in Washington, a pretty standard Industria. Assumption luxury shuttles motion across to. Strip Amina Soviets Maladies of Savannah Communist about it is also on A. nightly. Lethal throw. Gingrich tasks is that. Each time it's GonNa. But especially. Of the jets Scuttled this place Magherafelt, love So. She's always Youtube Dan Quayle. Jinx

Washington Washington Noni michels US Chevy Obama Michelle E. Mitchell Yukos Russia Tony Miles Markovitz Anya. Washington Volkswagen Buchanan Mitch Machines SEATTLE opium Football Shimon Apple