Aired Last week 9:49
Bill Cunningham | KLIF 570 AM
Jeff Bezos vs. National Enquirer could be a watershed
From the news
Aired 3 months ago 35:49
Pubcast from The Brit and Yankee-Show 289-Pokro Brewing
Uh? A law. Dan. The Yankee pup studios. Now the big Yankee craft beer. Ogoni the pipes being pulled. Not allowed to bring the drums, and let's have a party. Test. Up. BBB? Gang gang. Jesse James e. Jake, jake. Take it away you pay for that. Okay. So the Britain a lovely Kimberly have headed down to brewery number three here in Griffith poke rove ruing. Yes, we are which is a wonderful environment as you walk into it. It's almost like a nice little friendly, low ceiling environment. Standing behind the ball at the moment. And who was actually cleaning the lines when we came in is partner owner system, bro or operations, man, Mr. Daley. He does everything Dave gazillion ski now that last name correctly first of all day, thanks for taking time out. I know we're here just ahead of opening poke grow tell us about the name the Fokker name comes from Meyer at my partner. Joe Packer Pinski. He's the one who originated this for that. We started. He. Started brewing when he was very young underage his mom got him, Mr. beer kit for Christmas. I started on Mr.. And started tinkering with it. And really took a passion to it. And over the years, he home brewed, and we all kept telling him, you know, hey, you need to make this happen. You need to make this bigger and finally three years three and a half years ago with pulled the trigger and said, let's do it. And they started out, and I joined them shortly after and that's where the the Packer name comes from the poco name as it should pull this way. He said it buck grow, you know. Pokharel either way, and that's how that name originated, and it's to polish brewery, so go right from the name all the way down the full name. That's got the ski in the end of it. So you definitely know. What's bullish point? One of the nice styles of beer that I didn't even know existed until I was down. Evan chest. A burry in Saint Louis is gonna ruin this group. Zits ski ski. Disc or disk? Okay. And for those who don't know that is what I would describe as a polish log with smoke sm- smoke mall. When we do that beer, and it's true traditional recipe that we can't it's an old polish recipe that we've kind of tried to stick true to and scheduled flavor to it not real happy more of a dark, you know, not real dark kind of mid color beer. Good multi base to it. Not a lot of hops in you know, it's more the malts than anything. But it's a good flavorful beer, and what is the smoke come from the malt. So do you actually use would we the mall? Some also smokes to make that beer. It's no liquid smoker. Anything like that? It's all genuine, you said that you'll styles were actually more Belgian oriented, but as I look at your Tatlises off here. I see you cover the gamut from an English strong AO, which will solve them. A little bit to smoke Portas. But y'all flagship I guess or one of is a dirty blond. Yes. Dirty. Blond has are Belgium blonde. Oh, that's got us around a lot of notoriety since we open it gives you that complex because of the the Belgian yeast and eastern that we use a kind of gives you the aroma of bubblegum or banana, depending on everybody's palling. We have fun with people with this because when they sample, and we tell them you're gonna get the taste or smell of banana Republic them and to people be sitting next to it wanna get banana one. We'll get bubble just kinda showing that they're everybody's pallets different. And I think just clarify that. Because normally when people get those types of tasted having a half of Isan or something, right? That this is a little bit tempered on that side that will jn spiciness is what I get that. That typical Belgium feel. I'm getting a real dryness. That the end is that was my first sample add. And it's one of those base you want to have another Sipple. Oh, yeah. He gives you a creamy mouth feel we tend to lean towards people who aren't really big into craft beer to try that, you know, even a lot of women that aren't really into beer drinkers guys are much, and and we get a very good response. You know, like, oh this isn't too hot. Because the first thing they say is that, you know, I don't want any Hoppy beer, you know, so that that's a good balance for them where it's kinda got a milder too. But a lot of flavor. So have be drinkers palettes changed. We had earlier today. A discussion up new over foles and token about how the domestic biz all the came from Jovan traditional beers, but slightly tempered, I guess for the American palate as it was growing in back in the nineteen hundreds. And so today, you know from this one being. A beer that you would suggest people to start off with. I think this would be quite a a strong change to what people might have had from a Coors, light all something like that. Right. You do a cream ale is that a kind of a transition we like to call it the tranny. Exactly. Right. That is a milder Bill that beer that is kind of similar to uphills ner style beer or easy logger or something. Like that. The biggest joke is that. We do people come in and said, what do you got lights like a big thing around here, Bud Light? And like, what do you got this closest similar light? We pointed a water cooler says right over there. You know joke. We're not slam guys. Just we have, you know, craft beer, it's a lot different than that. And and they once they do come in and try it they they do get a lot of knowledge after that psycho in no that these beers existed that I could drink something craft. That's not gonna be happy or you know, too crazy for them. So you've been here for three and a half years. Right. So what's the history of the story of how you guys decided to open up, and if you're headed for my eighty you'll come in south down main street rose. Yeah. You come south down, bro. Straighten. You'll be the first borough hit on the left. The other two guys are a little bit further down. This obviously used to be another building of some description before burry. So what's history history places that used to be way back in the day? He used to be the gallon building, which is gatlin plumbing, who they are in Griffith may been here for over a hundred years their family, and you know, Joe, and I and Robin we live in Griffith, you know, and then this building they got out of that and went into a pottery place. It was pottery place for you a couple of years, and then it went into it was a don't Joe for a little while. And when it was a what until Joe like a crowded place. And if I came up available and look at it. It's downtown grip. That's good spot. And had what we I miss you roughly a little over five thousand square foot. So we know the gallons which we've made it even better and created the bond with it and decided to come here. Plus the downtown is great to we're just north of down the actual downtown area, but works well for us. You said that this area has grown up a lot changed a lot in the last few years, and you've got festivals going on Tova Festus here this weekend. Right. You topa fest. Yes, we are act over fast with us while rose in new over falls all three they they the town does a really good thing of showcasing their local breweries even during the summer when we're I'm for central market when they have that we rotate every week. It's either one of us are rotating through there, and the communities really involves lactobacillus is always a fun thing that we do. Times we say we let gusts take lead on Ellen because that's kinda his area of unit German brewery. And also, you know, he he kind of he that's his time shine with that one in we have fun with it though when we do every year. So you US you don't have an October fest. All we actually have our Rouch speier down there, which is smokes are smoked porter down there. So we still different than this year. And I have that one in front of me. And you said that I should try the English strong ale. I right. It's going to change. Okay. We'll do that. All right. I'm gonna take a quick break and music. Do you like to listen to everything we do? We do. Listen, everything here. Like right now, I got blues just because it's a good mix of blues. But I'm a person loves any kind of music. All right. We'll go out with some good Chicago blues. Newsouth bringing. Indiana. Back and we'll talk in English strong ale. One of my favorite styles that Dave oversee for obvious reasons this on oh, by the way, the dirty blond comes in at seven point three. So I'm assuming you had a lot of build from candy in that they said, it's a good malt Bill geared that that brings out flavor through and kind of we have to sit down with the dozen yeast. But it turns out really well that way I asked a stupid question. No only intelligent questions are allowed on this program. What is Belgian Candi I've heard you say it three times? It's kind of a Shogo. Okay. That's when I imagined Trump. I think it's built with a K, right? Yeah. We have you. Listen, another one of our Belgian doubles that we do we do feature with the Belgian syrup in it that candy syrup actually eat it as a candy. Because it when you add sugar to the brewing process. It gets the yeast rarely excited. Yeah. Naski what say and just pushes the alcohol a little bit. Now, speaking of alcohol, this one is not quite as strong. This one's a six point five. But it does have sixty one IV us as I reading off your old over there. Now, what's the name of it? And why do you call it that it's called the coal tax because we researched it because it is a, you know, an English style that back in the day, cold taxi was kind of like when you're like getting sick of somebody, and you wanna leave or whatever you like, hey, you know, what let me get your cold taxi, like get out of my hair type thing. So we've had a lot of fun put that name up, and we have customers that comes in. And you know, and I says I'm here for my taxi give you my taxi we have fun with that. So yes, indeed, this is the pricing because I very nice slow. Stop to came in needed a little bit of in. You know, a little bit of taste. And and then all of a sudden, you got those. Diabetes coming in. So that it finishes really. Bad bitch. But you know, we've got that bits of finish. And then slight dryness. This is quite unique. And it is it's really neat beer that we can't, you know, came out with that was one of Joe's creations. That was something. He did a plan with that. I don't even know everything that went on with that beer. But when it came out, it was kind of a let's see what happens, and we're really pleasantly surprised with it. And I've been going for about thirty eight years from England. So this must be a new version of what we used to call the coach shoulder all we used to give you the big e I give you the elbow. Not you out. You want a different name for the big. There you go. Well, having the next time we put. Have you tried brewing any other English biz? Traditionally I mean, the English I is say different the American APA real ale is something that's very difficult for the American palate. Kind of a coma date and also to sell which more boldly or in the business moving here. And actually, the English style is starting to come around a little bit people are getting more familiar with it, especially in Indiana. And I don't know if you agree of English in in the air. No, not really, I just feel doing both sides being Illinois, Indiana, the when we distribute and all that and go to the beer fest that Indiana has a better knowledge of fear than Illinois. Does I don't know why that is? But they just seem to be looking for. They don't wanna know just a beer drinking. They wanna know how what's in the creativity in you know, what tries them to it. And the English English style is starting to be something they're getting questions within like getting interested in. So I think you're going to see them a lot more and we play around with them here and there, but this something that next year. I think we're gonna come out with more because we've had great response out of you know, everybody's really like that beer and anywhere continued doing it. We we brewed with another local brewery in hot vine we brute in English pale ale, which was just marry salsa molt and east Kent Golding, hops, it turned out to be very to style. But I think from the American palate didn't only a small batch of it if you will. But it didn't come out to the American palette. So how do we train the American palate? To look at things differently. When we say have nice. A best bitter. They got this bitter. Right. And that's what we were talking about earlier with the grid cream ale. And we start them out with a lighter palette beer, and we're like all right? Let's try this. And we'll bring it up a little bit at a time. And then they're like, oh, this is different. And then it gets them to want to go into more trendy beers. Like we also did our little red beard, which is a it's a hybrid veer. It's a cross between a like an amber and in a wit beer. And that's another one that we tend towards people that are not really in the craft beer. We lead them into that. And that's one of our top years for that. Just go a little. Of a sip of the strong a little Tuffy going on in there or something like that. The millery toffee caramel something like that. That's the secret Joe's mind that some of that stuff. I don't even know said it's a secret gradient too many sample. It's been a long day. But somebody's gotta do this cold tanks. The the other bid that you mentioned and that I have a sample of here arou- bear, which is actually a smoke for or so oversee English porter. In many varieties, you know. And I don't know quite whether today's bears any resemblance to what it originally was back in the old days. But. Poses do many of those yesterday. We we try to do at least four or five year different styles. We did a big porter for our last year for pro-gay fast. Whiting indiana. So we we met we must wrote that we do Baltic quarters. We do just to traditional porter, you know. And then we'll. Will ramp it up once in a while and give it a really strong for her. So. So the the smoke pool to here. I haven't even got tasting it put the the smokiness does it have any would relation like somebody's books. Amaze, the ABI Trow, we'll talk about the beach one, right? Others oak Alaskan smoked porter. They do with the heck do they use up as one specific type of would. Yeah. Yeah. That one airs as a, you know, smoke mauled as well. I'm not sure the based on that were which smoke they used that some of that Joe would know more on than I would but beer. Good is an understatement. So row spirit. One of my is my favorite style. This gives me a almost Bamba memory. Right. You know? So the Bamba grouse bears. A really really intense. This is intense. But has that. Porter kind of smooth the back. Right. And that's that's exactly what we try to create your the smokiness the subtle smokiness upfront. And then you're gonna balance out the smoothness on the backend of just the flavor of the beer itself. And you start catching the malls and everything else, and it tapers off to keep it a balance that I think it's perfectly balanced that beer. It is. It's great when you're Bruin biz which is the favorite one you light to brew. That's a tough question, actually, the more. It seems the more complex veers the more. We like to challenge, you know. And sometimes you an IP as night. I mean, we'll basically, let's let's call it. Anyway, you know, I- easiest style to brew. As far as getting into being a beginning. Brewer and everything it's got a very easy brain build on. It got a very throw a bunch of half's. Add it good. But then when you start getting into trickier style, the complex these porters, smokey ones where you gotta make sure that that balances just right, otherwise, it, can, you know, go way too smoky, and or could be other way way to multi on one end, and it's just overpowering. So that's the fun part that we have is trying to get those complex Pierce. Let's do something. That's really hard. You know? And Joe is is one of the best at and knowing the balance on that. And just it's like tiny shoes to him that. And that's one part that I still fascinating. I'm with them every day. And I still am amazed at how much talent has. So if you had one bid that you have never brew, but would like to brew regardless of cost of ingredients in time. What would that be? That's a tough question to answer that one. I think we've pretty much also tough questions here. Brittany Anki crap. Okay. We've taken at crack at pretty much everything. I mean, there's not that. We haven't tried or wanted to try. I have to think about that one. Interesting. Okay. They have set you. I've set you a challenge multi, right? We did dabble. We were talking about getting some of the sours, but the sours are hard to get into. Because of the fact that you're adding 'Bacterial to a tank and ill from what everybody's told us what we did research on his pretty much much. You started sour at tank that tank is dedicated just for sours because it's very hard to get that bacteria out of that tank to make it usable again, so through your traditional style beers. So that's kind of one that we haven't tackled yet. But that we may branch out to you. You have one on that you talked about WPA you have one. And this is only monkey okay? So is that a to to your friends up the road in Munster? No is actually not at all. We did. We actually did a version of this last year, and we call the. Zombie dumb. And that was only Deng. Oh. Oh, you MB. Okay. Done. One of it is a good name for be be done. And a lot of people right away said you guys are taking a slam at three Floyds. And we're like, no, we know them guys. They're friends of ours. And we told them that Joe, and I are really the music and Reverend Horton heat did a song called zombie done. And that's where the name came from. So this year when we brood this again, you know, we all right? You know, people giving us a lot hard time about that. Let's just change it to Tommy. And we went to be monkey because we also do a WPA called monkey assassin. So we figured it'd be easier to transfer to that than it would be to have to deal with zombie dumb. Again. Amazing how heady name your biz. Gee, just sit around and say some it's cool. Yeah. Sometimes it's late night drinking, and you know. Silly. Sometimes just being creative. You know? We do have fun with the beers. You know, we've who we try to keep it really light. You know as far as take it seriously. The name said, yeah, have fun with it. Yeah. You you were talking earlier about how you know, basically. It's it it shouldn't get too serious. When it gets serious is when you you know. Haven't hard times. You don't make money house house business here in Griffith with free brewers like this. It's good. If it's really good for the town and for us as far as the three Burris go. The biggest challenge that we see that comes up is this area is getting so saturated down with Brees like there's there's when when we first got into business. I think there was under under twenty breeze. And now as of last year, I think they're like twenty seven twenty varies and still growing in in the Indiana. Daria miles of each other. Yeah. I mean, it's so I mean, there's still plenty of market out there for it. But it is getting harder, and it's gain more saturated, and you know, you can only do so many ks. You know, everybody has as so that's why we kind of stuck to our guns of doing the different styles. Doing our thousands styles. You know and doing the more complex. All right. Well, we'll take another quick break and come back into about the futures. And you'll run the delicious looking food. Taxi. Thirty six I went an extra saw. Because one of the best was on your menu was Wookey love. And having just watched the solo movie a Star Wars story as they call. It is that where you got the name from because you like Star Wars, it's a Russian imperial stout. So there's never relationship there. Unless unless Putin is a Wookey Walker you adult. No, it's the same follow with the Star Wars. Eric kinda tricky geeks and Star Wars geeks. So we're having fun with the name. And actually, I'll show you the artwork in a minute that we had for that. But it was you know, a beer Sosa. So good it makes you wanna kiss Lookie is what the. The tagline was four. We actually have a picture. I'll show you their work that is Princess Leia and chewy are staying next together next to each other and chew he's got his hand on her boob. And she's got the surprise look on your face. And he's got smile on his face. It's. So the lovely Kimberly your taste in this. Because you read the description of the beer. And I'm over cocoa and cherries. Okay. Coke fire roasted cherries. That's a I I've seen think a be with firers to cherish Tila say you do that. That's a secret that we don't give out. All right. Okay. It is so cherry in style is is a very good combination Russian imperial this is coming in temp. Sent I think, yes, sir. Ten percent is it's a heavy hitter. You know, because he's got the sweetness on it. And most rush imperials are on the heavier side just because of that. So what? So what through this to make it not quite a sweet, which it isn't. The way we designed it with the Bill and the way the yeast that we used in it we we kind of find tune in. So it would tame it down the not enough to where would bland it. And make it kind of like just more. I'm not explain it. Rush. I've only came across to rush pills. I've really had no flavor. You know, most of them. They didn't name names. It was a brewery and Ohio. I don't remember the name of the brewery, but it was a Russian imperial. And I think they just opened. So they were just kind of figuring that out. And it was you could taste the Bill that everything was there. But it just didn't have I think they were scared. They were gonna overdo it and make it to sweet. So they did it the other way, and they made it to kind of bland on the back end. So we balanced out. So that our intentions were to have you hit an affront, then it's a heavy stout. And then blend on the backs of as little white. And then you start getting more to flavor instead of such heavy body, and it seems to work that way. Yeah. I think it works. Very very, well, it it doesn't have a real Fiqh smooth finish good has a while the slight taught. And then there must be something that fire roasting going on. Because this is something different. Immersed delicious. But second to the to the smoke Boorda for me. You do three Boma bottles that I take pictures of boxes of them here behind me poke rose. Thank you again the book. And then the other one is is our it's also about lager. And that's when we did our packed over fest. We do a big Halloween style beer fest that we do right outside on broadstreet, we shut broadstreet down and it's a big beer fest. So that's popped over fest game. So there's a very those three very traditional styles that good seller. Is that the only ones you bottle you going into canning? We are getting ready to start canning and bottling these these were just two runs that we did because they are too style. Easiest that we can seller that we can keep you on using and selling as we go. So that was our trial run to do. So. Mo we are going to go with like a mobile and Kanter it's easier that way with our space. We don't have enough room to bring coal canning line. And keep it there all the time. So in the future that we will be probably here in the spring. We're going to start canning everything and thirty blind. It'll be one of them that we can definitely race cars corns, nother one. We can which is an IP. Yes is our American. Also, we have our caveman. Which is our that one's I will be back on Sumer brew. That's our Brownhill that we do that. Our motto of our businesses actually based off of the drink. Like, a caveman was what the the tagline is for that beer. Yeah. Yeah. It is on all our t-shirts. Okay. Let's see. You also have a camomile wheat ale. So you're all the experimenting with different ingredients different address. You know what what's the wacky? Is. You put in. Oh, jeez. I'm trying to think what is a wacky. When we've done. I mean, we've played around with like we've done some pretty hardcore grapefruits, you know. And we call it the grace fruit which was polish for grapefruit, and you know, we've played around with that. We've done some beers with. We do a thing called Plum crazy every year. It is a Belgian blonde that we do a second from tation with plums and with the plums and the sugars that come in. And that when you drink that beard almost comes in like a tart almost like a sour. It's closest thing of being a sour with actually without being a salary. And it's a good seasonal beer that we do for pro fess up and waiting every year. And that's kind of a wacky one. That's really turned out. Well for us, and it's roughly fifty five sixty pounds of fresh plums that we've had to use for that. What about bio aging haven't seen so far in three brewers too many barrels? It seems to be very clean every day fresh. There's a lot of that. We do have like you had to rush imperial. We did the Russian imperial with some extra cherry in it. And we actually put it in journeymen barrels, and we do have that. Our celebrate now that sitting there waiting it's it's been in there about seven eight months now. So that's ready to come out probably entity year. Okay. Come down or at the end of the year, folks. Yeah. Maybe sooner. I mean because you know, they're. Absolutely. I see difference with the barely stuff is that. If you go past six seven months with them, you have a chance of the barrel going bad. So you got really watch it. So we are pulling and like you guys know the longer you keep it in that barrel. The better is just draw out of the would it make it even stronger better more flavor. So we're at that point our we're gonna start sampling and see where we're at. So may come out sooner all depends. So so the the future for poco brewing. Looks very bright. Anything that we need to look out for next year? We into a little noy, Illinois. We're gonna we're going to branch out more with our AP as a in these unique with our as of dual different like even race card at unicorns. It's more of a tangerine. Instead of like the most Hoppy IP as we get. So it's different everything we do is kind of different than norm. Who wanted always go that different path? We're not afraid. Just give me a kind of backstory on like we used to. When we first started. We were on a three zero system, and we were growing so fast that we couldn't keep up with production. And Joe, and I had to be in the back like almost twenty four hours a day. Double batching just to keep up with the man. So we decided to go up to a temporal system, and we went up to ten barrel system and give everybody idea we went from going to eight hundred barrels a year to now we could do almost thousand barrels a year. So I mean, that's that's the size difference that we're working with. So when Joe, and I we've got the system and we got up running. I was on the conservative side of like are we gonna try a little small batches a now we're wondering for every bet we're throwing a ten barrel around. Mike nervous can be like, oh, man. This is when you're hoping at high of Banja, everything all your greediest change. It's not like, oh like when you're cooking. You saw gotta add this. It doesn't work that way brewing it things when Aaron bulk they start changing so but he was Coppard. About it. And he did and it sure came out, right? And we were like, well, not as much tweaking and we had to do. So that's that's unfortunate to have job Bill. The know all that. Because I was nervous need enough to throw any batches down, ROY. No we have now. And that's one thing that I, you know, a lot of people won't say, but we have not had ever flash Flusher branch down or so it's not a good batch anymore. Not sell. We've been very fortunate to have beers at always sold in that people liked. So so we end interviews with. The sixty four thousand dollar question. And that is. With a two part question. The first one is where can people find you? And that is the phone number in the address the addresses three eleven north broad street. He went to the address and phone number is two one nine nine two four seven nine five zero. He didn't know it and you can find you online, right? Yes. You get fined Packer brewing company dot com, or you can find us on Facebook under Packer brewing, and we will be down here or Tova twentieth with thirty coffee drinkers look into anxiously try these biz I will be recommending a few. You'll actually get a taste of our our C which will be back out by the the next week. And that's our oatmeal stout that we do I do like good Oakville. O'neil stout. So I think we be Sam Smith's oriented. Yeah. There you go get that. I like a good Bill stout. Nice and smooth. And this was really one of my favorites. Cool. So we'll be looking forward to coming back down hit. Dave. Thank you so much for giving us the time of day REEs -joyed, washing cleaning, no lines. Everybody does have clean lines into work at. So tap is a quite clean. So I'm going to have to share with us. Dave isn't going to be so new Chiswick Ghibli choose. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Tone on the many. This. On on on. Bitten yank. Gives a. But go point, please.
The Brit and Yankee Craft Beer Pubcast
Aired Last month 7:25
751: Getting Started #2 - The Higher Cause by Mr. Money Mustache on Minimalism & Simple Living
This is optimal. Finance daily episode. Seven fifty one getting started number two the higher 'cause by Mr. money moustache of Mr. money, moustache dot com. And I am Dan your host a happy Monday to you and welcome to a brand new week of terrific content here on optimal finance daily. And before we get to today's post from Mr. money moustache. I wanna thank send pro online from Pitney Bowes, send pro online software makes it easy to save time and money. No matter what you ship or mail print shipping, labels and stamps, right? From your desk and access discounted rates. Try it free for thirty days and get a free ten pound scale when you visit PB dot com slash finance. That's PB dot com slash F. I N A N C E P B dot com slash finance for now. Let's get right to our post as we optimize your life. Getting started number two the higher 'cause by Mr. money moustache of Mr. money, moustache dot com. The realist thinks he has me pegged. He's right about the nineteen ninety nine REI book Packer, plus backpack. But in his calm by the numbers approach. He is missing a lot of the reasons for galaxy is great, no, not just great. It's the only non ridiculous lifestyle for the thinking person. And this is because for many of the happily frugal there is a higher cause beyond just money. There are many reasons why the act of going to a store and buying yourself new manufactured product should hurt a little bit. And while we're all still going to do it. It should be done carefully. And after some thought and after considering the alternatives. One big reason is the earth many of us feel some sort of love for our planet and a desire to preserve as much as possible of its healthy ecosystem for the rest of our fellow plants and animals to enjoy maybe even our children. Well, unfortunately, buying products. And preserving the earth are at great odds with each other. You're not helping the earth by buying a Toyota Prius, you just caused the burning of v. Eighteen hundred gallons of fuel and the mining of about eleven thousand pounds of earth herself just to produce a car of that size before you even by its first tank of gas eating meat, building, a new house and lots of other fun activities are equally destructive assignment. Watch a few of the great documentaries like fast food nation and food Inc and an inconvenient truth. Then you might guild up the appropriate level of guilty awareness to take the innocence out of shopping. But then you get to cheer up again. Mr. money moustache has got the solution for you. As luck would have it not buying things is not only the solution for saving our planet. It is also the solution to your financial problems. But what about being happy? You ask I'm buying these products to make me happy won't my happiness level drop. If I stop buying them. Great question that brings us to the next big reason, frugality is great. It actually makes you happier and their science to back it up. Okay. As logical people. We probably agree that our main goal in life is to be happy. But what does happiness? Mean at the lowest level, it means that something in your body is releasing the right chemicals that washed through your bloodstream and make your brain interpret the situation as good times, what triggers these chemicals. Well, usually things that we evolved to think are good for us eating rich foods having various pleasant experiences with potential mates enjoying social status among our peers and doing satisfying tasks like nesting building, and creating things it's easy to understand how these things contributed to our survival in the past so our brains evolved to reward us when we do them shopping satisfies some of the later things in that list. You might get social status by having the latest trendy type of shoes or you might trigger your nesting rewards center by buying super cute, shelving and accessories to organize your closet. It's a valid form of happiness accept. It comes with the cost of taking away your freedom money, which makes you have to worry more in the future. And in most cases, the short reward causes a longer period of suffering. So you're not coming out ahead. So what is the alternative? What if you were to write down, the top ten activities that make you happy and are good for your long term happiness and health then start spending most of your time doing those things you would probably find that most of them are not expensive and that they take so much time. You don't have time for the expensive ones. For example, for me. The list would have things like have breakfast with my family every day have some playing learning reading time with my son every day read one new book per week for myself practice guitar at least one hour per week workout with weights and ride bikes three times per week, a family hike or other outing two times per week. Try cooking new semi fancy recipe for the family or friends once per week while wholesome, but fun stuff there and had already adds up to more than the amount of time. I have available like most people I still have material cravings, and my unconscious mind is automatically trying to rationalize each one. Even as my conscious mind, resists, for example. Right now, I have inexplicable desires to buy a new computer with a gigantic thirty inch monitor for creative pursuits like music making and blogging an apple ipad for the educational games for kids and around the house convenience for us. Adults. A few new high end tools to add to my already complete tool set because I'm a professional carpenter these days, I shouldn't have to compromise by using any of my remaining amateur great ryobi tools. Even though they still work should I and a two hundred dollar Zo Jerusha bread machine to replace the Radley ten dollar garage one. I use that still works fine. But I just acknowledged the desires and put the research time needed for those purchases at the bottom of my to do list. If I get everything else on the list done. I'm allowed to buy those things. Meanwhile, I can feel good about leading my existing simple life because the earth doesn't want me to buy extra things. Anyway, see there is a higher cause. You just listened to the post titled getting started number two the higher 'cause by Mr. money moustache of Mr. money, moustache dot com, and a big thank you to send pro online from Pitney Bowes, send pro online is an online software that helps you save time and money, no matter what you send this includes letters packages overnights and more you can compare options between USPS UPS and FedEx, and they make it super convenient. Because it comes with a free ten pound scale that weighs and calculates rates for u U S P. S postal rates are going up on January twenty seventh twenty nineteen. So now's the best time to try this out by using send pro online you get discounts of up to forty percents off USPS priority, mail shipping and get five cents off. Every letter you send no additional equipment is needed. Just log onto your computer and use your own printer to print shipping. Labels and stamps sinned. Pro online is only fourteen nine. Ninety nine a month and listeners can get a free thirty day trial by visiting PB dot com slash finance experienced the convenience of send pro online and try it out for free at PB dot com slash finance. And that's going to do it for today. Thank you so much for being a regular listener. And for being a subscriber of the show as well have yourself a great rest of your day. And I will see you back here. Tomorrow where your optimal life awaits?
Optimal Finance Daily
Aired 3 months ago 59:52
Amanpour: Tony Perkins, Gloria Steinem, Christine Lahti and George Packer
Support for NPR comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans who were excited to introduce their all new rate shield approval. If you're in the market to buy a home rate shield approval is a real game changer. And here's why first Quicken Loans will lock your rate for up to ninety days while you shop, but here's the crucial part. If rates go up your rate stays the same. But if rates go down your rate also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender. To get started go to rocketmortgage dot com slash Amanpour. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. And welcome to poor. Here's what's coming up. Evangelical flood zone for Trump weighing initial priorities against his personal foibles. Tony Perkins is a major powerbroker leading the fight to turn out the vote, plus these midterms could mock an unprecedented surge of women in power feminist, Gloria Steinem has been fighting this fight for decades, I'll speak to her and actress Christine Lahti who play Steinem in the brilliant new play Gloria ally, and why is this country? So deeply dividing veteran journalist, George Packer turns his critical eye on America's political tribes. Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour deal conventional wisdom has it that a much vaunted Blue Wave is going to surge over the congressional parapets tomorrow at least in the house of representatives. But a major factor the political power of the Christian right is one too seriously contend with some eighty percent of white evangelical bought Donald Trump in the two thousand sixteen election. And now two years later their support is still at an all time high. As one of them says if evangelical are removed from the white vote Trump loses whites activists on the left of baffled struggling to comprehend. How people the faith would support a president whose life is. They see it has hardly been a model of Christian living, but to evangelical supporters, President Trump has been a major political advocate for Christian laws and values and they're pouring money and organizational support into Republican. Races all across the country. Now, Tony Perkins is a leading feel Marshall in this fight for Christian power. He's the president of the Family Research Council, a deeply influential lobbying group, and he says the religious right is in a spiritual role with the rulers of darkness, Tony Perkins. Welcome to the program from Washington. Thank you. Good to be with you. So let's start with the beginning. I said the you all are putting a lot of effort organizational and financial into these races into Republican races. And I understand that you and your organization have these sort of pasta briefings sort of get out the vote all sorts of you know, toolkit, can you tell me exactly what you're doing. Well, you've covered a lot of territory here. I can tell you what we're doing is. We're working with churches across America to bring them to an understanding of what's happening in our nation in the quote that you alluded to earlier was actually in a sermon I preach from Asians chapter six and the rest of that was it we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and the issue is not with people or with parties. But it's with the spiritual influences. And so there is concern about the direction of our country. There's concern about religious freedom, which continues to be a major issue for conservative voters in one of the reasons they did back Trump in the general election as because he promised to to defend religious freedom in the exercise thereof. And that's what he's done as president. And so what we've seen is more and more pastors and churches who really understood the threat in the last eight years are remaining very supportive of of this present. And his policies. Tony growth is. I want to ask you, whether you are a toll troubled by what I needed to which is President Trump in his personal life in what he's been saying into refugees and others. I mean, you know, he uses quite Hauch edgy language, and he's had all these issues. Stormy Daniels and others how people want to try to figure out how people have faith like yourself support that kind of individual. And I think I'm hearing you say that it does boil down to politics, and the kind of politics you support. They just close. No, no. That's a really good question. But it's more than that. Because the support for Donald Trump does not come in a vacuum. We go back to the to the two thousand sixteen presidential election in the primary. Most of us were not with Donald Trump. I was not a Donald Trump supporter. It's when it came down to where we had to make a real choice. It wasn't a theoretical choice. It was a real choice between Hillary Clinton who pledged to continue the policies of Barack Obama who were his policies or anti. To most Christians in this country, especially as attack on religious freedom such as little sisters of the poor. And so they decided to take a chance on Donald Trump based on the promises that he made based on the fact he wrapped himself in the Republican party platform, and that he chose a running mate who we all knew that was very clear on these issues and to the surprise of many. He's kept his promises, and he has advanced those policies that he said he would do. So nothing's changed. Those behaviors were prior to the election, there may be differences and disagreements on some policy initiatives and some of his tweets that he puts out, but by and large the event Jellico community remains supportive of this president because he's kept his promises. I'm just to be fad. Hillary Clinton herself is a religious woman, and she would say that she supports religious freedom. And so two would President Obama? I understand you differences their issues like life. Right. Precisely precisely. And that's basically what it boils down to. So I just want to ask you this. If you still stand by this in January so longtime ago, you told politico that as long as Trump doesn't disappoint evangelical politically they'll stick with him whenever the policy stops in his administration reverse to just personality. That's what I believe the president will be in trouble. So I I guess you still believe that. But is that a line that you actually two things I said in that statement that are and I've said this repeatedly our support for the president is not unconditional our support for him is if he keeps his promises as he has and this behavior that you know, we hear so much about prior to his election as alleged to engage in if that were to occur. Now, the support would not remain. But that's not happening out stuff that happened in the past. Everybody knew that he had skeletons in his calls it. That's why they weren't. With him in the primary. But again when it came down to choice between him and Hillary Clinton evangelical chose someone who had lined up with him on the policy issues, and he has kept those policies or those promises and is implementing those policies. So as long as that continues and as long as he stays on the straight narrow so to speak as president the support will remain. Tony Perkins clearly his supporters and by a huge margin, including evangelical community his base believes, for instance, in his current immigration policy or tactical or pronouncements from the from the Oval Office. Whether it's the separation of families, whether it's the essential line against refugees. Slashing the numbers of refugees allowed to come into the United States. They they believe in it, the evangi medicals giant don't think that I don't think that's fair. I because I I think first off there's there's two issues here the event Jellico community in broadly. In more broadly, the Christian community there is not uniformity in the the thinking on on immigration in those policies. Now, here's what there is agreement on is that we're a nation, and we need to be secure and to the degree that these policies are to secure our nation. Whether it's at the borders, or whether it's the refugee resettlement, but when it comes to. Gratien we are four legal immigration. And I think you're going to actually see most likely after this election. You're going to see the parties come together in come up with a workable immigration policy. There. Many in the Republican party supported by evangelical 's, and you you've even seen the president's. I think position softening on this issue of immigration one solve the problem when it comes to those that are here in this country already. We know we have to deal with it and provide a way forward. I I think that the primary issue that the president has got the support on is providing the security for this nation, whether that's at our border or again in the resettlement program, a miss Burke, I hear you again. But I do have to ask you this even his own Republican leaders in congress. We hear a trying to persuade the president to stop doubling down on this caravan thread, he sent fifteen thousand he says he's going to send fifteen thousand troops to the borders. Then nowhere near the border. Most people do not believe there's going to be an invasion. The AT keeps using that language, and he keeps using it as he said himself as a successful campaign issue successful campaign rhetoric. So again, I'm very interested to hear what you're saying about a potential post election immigration reform those policies, but hold on a second. I haven't quite finished. I wanted to ask you how you pause what the vice president and others the the White House press spokesman as you member used biblical language to defend the separation of parents and children at the border. This is basically what they said they used a bible verse to defend that separation policy. And then basically any American commits a crime is going to be separated from his Ohio, child, etc. Then they well. The bible actually says is that you know, Christianity is supposed to transcend barriers of race class wealth nationality. Neither june. Greek neither bone no free. There is neither male. No female flea. All one in Christ Jesus. So here on my parenting, you know, the Old Testament. But I guess what I'm trying to ask you is could you defend that as a Christian? Well, actually what I did is. I took a group of pastors to meet with the attorney general in set down in that was the beginning of working through a policy that would keep families United and tried to discourage. Are we going to step back here? The reason many of these families were coming into these children were coming is because of lax enforcement of our immigration policy. And so by creating this really a magnet to bring people here, we were dividing the families. And so I think this again goes back to securing our border making very clear that we're going to. We're a nation. We have borders we're going to enforce those immigration policies, but doing it in a humane and a and a family friendly if you will away. In the administration responded to that. Misfortunes again that is humor that is a problem with an a a massive influx of immigrants. In fact, the opposite is true ever since President Obama there's been more leaving than coming in. So it is a successful election issue. And that is I'm trying to figure out where one draws the line in quote, unquote, demonizing the other because you yourself have said, and I quote, you yourself back to yourself. You wrote this country must come together. We've seen a space hate crimes. And I guess I'm trying to ask you in sort of put you on the spoke because you ought to faith leader. What do you add vise the administration if indeed with going to see some post mid Tom raprochement? Asian. Hate crimes. Well, look, I if we're talking about immigration, I think the president's doing the right thing by securing our borders, whether it is seven thousand or seventy thousand I think it's important that we we are nation ruled by law. People can come here, then come here, legally, America's very generous. I just got back from the Middle East that was in the UAE, and they're a nation about ten million only two million or citizens. You can't become a citizen of that country. We have very generous laws here you just have to do it by the rules by law. And and I think this president is enforcing the law as the American people elected him to do. Yeah. I mean, again, everybody believes, insecurity, there's not one single political party or individuals who doesn't believe in this person. That's what he's doing. Right. But it assumes that there is a problem of a massive influx of people are coming. You not new support. That's the you don't know who is in. This this caravan. I mean, there are people that IMF infiltrate that care of and they can come in that do not want to become a part of the American family. I'm gr- I'm actually thankful that people want to come to this country. They they they want to come here. That's what America's about about bringing people here. They just have to do it legally. So that we can make sure that they're here for the right reasons. Yeah. I mean, no, nobody nobody wants the law should be broken. But again, it's about language, isn't it, Mr. Perkins? You've got this caravan in which the president and others talk about felons. Infiltrating exotics code word for Middle Eastern. Is that these invaders I'm asking you whether the president of high earth to us. In a political context where we're already very divided, and you yourself, of course, for some kind of reconciliation amongst Americans. Haven't you? I think we're we're we're conflicting some issues here. The president was speaking with the facts based on even what Honduran president said was that they their intelligence uncovered within this caravan president was making issue that I do think that our our conversation here in the United States as Americans whether we're Republican whether we're democrat whether independent whether we're liberal or conservative. I do think that the rhetoric has reached a point that, you know, we're long longer. No longer having conversations we're talking over not even talking over. We're shouting over each other. And I do think that we have to find a way back to where we can disagree. We can disagree, but do so in a in a civil manner that respects one another as human beings. I think those very, very welcome woods. Do you know? I just want to pick up from what you just said you in the UAE where you were meeting with with with leaders there. I guess. Trying to get protection for Christians and other fates. Oh, oh, your own faith in that part of the world. And then you moved on or the the team moved on to Saudi Arabia and that oversees really important and central at the moment, given given what happened to one of our colleagues Jamal kashogi who's working here in the United States living here in the United States and working for an American organization. What used to be very clear, I did not go to Saudi right? I know. But the team did didn't they they some of the others went on the others went on. I did not do you know, what they might have said to. Prince Mohammad bin Salman, they did. But I have had I have not had any conversations with with him. I chose not to go to Saudi Arabia. Yes. It was. I don't think it was the right time to go. So that's interesting actually since you you made that point. So what do you think? I mean, I know you're not a politician. But what do you think America's relationships should be in the post kashogi? Well, I don't think we have all the facts, I'm very, I'm I'm troubled. I don't believe Turkey and everything they have to say, I don't believe Saudi Arabia, and whatever and all that they have to say and they've been a great abuser of of human rights and religious freedoms in that country, and they're a a negative influence in that part of the world. And I know that the crown prince is supposed to be a reformer, but I'm going to I'm going to withhold judgment till I see all the facts. I'm just going to say I'm troubled by what I see at this point. Indeed, I wanna read something to which I think is really really interesting given these elections. So one of the leaders quoted over the weekend said, the number one thing anybody can give you know, the faithful is the supreme Christ. But. The second greatest thing we can give this generation is the supreme court. So talk to me a little bit about what you hope if you get the votes that you intend, and you want will be the trajectory. And of course, again in the framework of the Cavanaugh, very, very divisive, hearings an appointment. Well, you just go back to the polling in the last election. The two thousand sixteen election in the supreme court factored very high in terms of the motivating factors for evangelical 's voting in the general election for Donald Trump in here. Here's why you go back to the issue of whether it was prayer in schools bible in the schools ten commandments in the schools. You abortion on demand in nineteen Seventy-three. None of those issues were done by legislative bodies. Those were all done by the court for the last six decades. We've essentially had an activist cord that has taken on the role of legislators. And and so now what you see happening. And this is why I think even the motivation in the wake of the cavenaugh hearing will pour over into this election is that people see now now we're on the or at the verge of having a court that anchored to the constitution that will operate within that framework and not do policies that are should be done by the congress or by the people. I wanted to end by just playing you a little bit of an interview that I conducted with another faith leader Christian faith leader, William baba, who just received the MacArthur genius grant. And again, he was talking in the context of this very divisive political atmosphere in the United States, this sort of tribalism and mindful of the fact that according to the latest Washington Post ABC poll seventy five percent of white evangelicals in the US describe the federal crackdown on undocumented immigrants as positive compared to just forty six percent of Americans overall. I just wanna play you this sound bite about what he believes. It means to be a conservative. First of all to be conservative is to hold onto the essence. Oh, well, the essence of the bible if you cut out all the scriptures into by to talk about how you should treat the poor and the immigrant aboard would upon. So if you anti the poor an anti immigrants, you're not being conservative. You're not holding onto the essence. So how do you respond to your fellow faith leader? Well, I'm not holding onto the essence of the bible. I'm holding onto the principles of scripture in as a as a Christian in America. What we seek to do is is the work out knowing that we are in a secular government, but we can take those principles and argue for and shape policy. Just as everyone else in our country has the right to do. And and I know that the scripture does speak to the poor does speak to the immigrant. But it also speaks to the rule of law, and in fact, in every instance, in almost every instance, you read in the Old Testament about taking in the poor the immigrant, the the the stranger it is then that they have an obligation to operate by your customs in your laws. It's the assimilation. It's the rule of law. And that's where many on kind of the left side of the ledger in the faith community fail to see the rule of law and how the two go together. Tony perkins. Thank you so much. Indeed for joining us. Good to be with you. Support for NPR comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. Let's talk about buying a home for a minute because of rising interest rates. There's a lot of unpredictability when it comes to buying a home these days, it's causing a lot of anxiety with folks. Well, our friends at Quicken Loans are doing something about that. They're calling it the power buying process. Here's how it works. Quicken Loans will verify your income assets and credit in less than twenty four hours to give you a verified approval this gives you the strength of a cash buyer. Then once you're you qualify for their all new exclusive rate shield approval. I they'll lock your rate for up to ninety days while you shop. Now, here's the best part. If rates go up your rate stays the same. But if rates go down, you're right. Also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender. To get started go to rocketmortgage dot com slash Amanpour rate, chilled approval, only valid on certain thirty year purchase. Transactions addition. Conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans. Data in comparison to public data records, equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states and MLS consumeraccess dot org number thirty thirty. You know, what's not smart job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. But you know, what is smart ZipRecruiter dot com slash on poor unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn't wait for candidates to find you ZipRecruiter finds them for you. It's powerful matching. Technology scans thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills education and experience for your job. And actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast. No, more sorting through the wrong resumes. No more waiting for the right candidates to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US his rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over one thousand reviews and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash on poor. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash AMA. N P O U R ZipRecruiter dot com slash on poor. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's z dot com slash CNN. Now, it's evangelical trying to build a firewall for President Trump and Republicans women voters women activists and women transit's intend to be the battering ram that smashes into that wall since the twenty sixteen election women of Ma they have all been is they have run for office in on precedent in numbers feminist icon. Gloria Steinem says that she has never seen anything like it in her eighty four years on this planet Steinem has fought for women's rights since she graduated from Smith College in the early nineteen sixties and now her extraordinary life is the subject of a new play, and it's cooled Gloria alive and the actress Christine Lahti plays Steinem in the title role, his Lottie recreating glorious items address to the 2017 women's March on Washington. Sometimes we must put our bodies where our beliefs are. Sometimes pressing fend is not enough. The constitution did not begin with. I the president. It'd be gins with we the people. Gloria Steinem and her duffel ganger Christine dotty join me now. Welcome to you both you so I'm let's I describe and talk about the issues at hand right now. We've talked about an unprecedented number of women running for congress and running for governors and running for all sorts of different offices. I you Gloria what do you think the effect will be what do you hope to wake up to on Wednesday morning democracy? A little thing like that. Yeah. I mean, just look at who are elected officials have been regardless of party look at who the authority figures in our culture have been and the rising women's movement not just here. But around the world is saying, wait a minute. If the thirties don't look like the country by sex and race. And so on do we really have a democracy, and they are surging to transform us into a democracy and. Was I correct. When I said that the women, and I know you feminist as well as an actress portraying Gloria trying to shape up as the battering ram against anymore sort of wolves against women's rights. Yes. Of course. Yes. I mean because we got this radical idea that women are human beings in the sixties. It'd be kept that I don't know. And you us when it was then it was about a third and and gradually gradually gradually. It has become the majority and actually black women are on the forefront of this. And if you look at the vote, you see that black women voted something like ninety percent against Trump and fifty one percent of white women, especially married. Non college educated. Women who are dependent on their husbands voted for Trump. I'm going to get to get that in the second. But you said who would have thought it Christine, but but I read that you even said yourself that it wasn't until about the seventies. That you assumed feminism that you sort of got to grips with what it meant that it sort of affected you and that until then you had thought that being a second class citizen was a biological fact. I did I mean, I saw my mother, and I saw all my friends mothers in my suburb, basically white suburb of Detroit and saw that they were all second class citizens. They had nobody. Worked. None of these women work. They accept in the house. They were housewives and mothers and they were treated with disrespect. And I saw that and it broke my heart. But I thought well, that's just the way the world is then they went to college. And there was suddenly diversity. And it was like a whole new world. And is Sylvia Plath wrote about when she first went to Smith. She said it was like a watermelon cracked open enter feet, if it's big juicy watermelon melon of possibilities in life just cracked open. And that's how I felt when I went to college, and I learned about Gloria, and I learned about Robin Morgan and Betty for Dan, and these feminists, and it just it it became such a I opener changed my life and feminism has been my life jacket that has helped me navigate through a world that I detected finally went in the early seventies a world that didn't really respect her like women, but I so grateful to my feminine. So you credited glory with with saving your life. Yes. She used that. Would I? On first of all now and other women saved my life. Then we get it. It's contagious. When when we see someone who actually is a whole human being who is female it. You know, there's nothing nothing can compete with it. So I I guess I wanted to know how you came to play this role. What you think of the role of what you think of the play. But where should we say? Okay. Well, I I lobbied to get this part because Gloria and I've been friends for a long time. And I heard that there was a play being done about her. And I didn't know if I was right for it or the right age or anything, and I just called up emailed everybody. I emailed glory. I emailed the producer emailed the director. I didn't know the writer and just said just throwing my hat in the ring if it comes to this. I would love the opportunity, but I don't know if I'm even right? But just no I'm interested, and then it happened. And what do you make seeing yourself portrayed in theatre every night? Look how lucky? No because both as an actor, and as a human being I mean, I feel immensely honored the first idea of caffeine Jimmy who's a friend who said I should play my own life. Right. I actually tried to do and could not do it. No way. But that's how it started. And I've heard both of you say that in a way your lives have been. I'm correct me. If I get it wrong, but you living you'll mother's unlit lives. A you had a paticularly. I mean, really hot rending relationship with your mother who you love, but was very sort of a me. She was very unwell full of anxieties. Right. And you sort of your childhood was spent looking off to her. That's true. But what I discovered later that before I was born she was a journalist, and she was an amazing journalist. She was the Sunday editor of a newspaper at a time. Just a few years after women got the vote. But she was trying to be a mother a wife to a wonderful, but totally irresponsible, man. And and the pressures on her were so great that she had what was then called a nervous breakdown and was in a senatorial for a couple of years in broker spirit. So I was seeing broken spirited woman in took me a long time to understand. And sometimes after I wrote about her people would say to me, aren't you afraid that her illness is hereditary, and I would say only patriarchy is ready Terry because she was not ill. And did you have a similar situation with your mother or did you have a seven unfulfilled life as far as you? She finally did after all the kids went off to college six kids went off to college. He finally had time to focus on herself and became a painter. And then she actually became a pilot. But so while she was so load. She didn't actually fly a lot, but she did solo. But before that, I did feel that her spirit was broken. I did. Feel that she did not have. I mean, first of all being financially dependent on my father. She would have a credit cards taken away. If she misbehaved that was heartbreaking for me to see even to this day. I have a separate Bank account from my husband. It's so important to not be financially dependent on a man is just it's I saw how damaging that was. And she had to ask me to lend her money when she wanted to help our mentally ill her mentally ill daughter. My sister because my father didn't want to do that at the time and thought it was against her her need to be independent. And anyway, I saw her being broken by that kind of stuff, and I was determined not to ever be that way. No. And we should say that there's a rationale for this here, which is controlling reproduction s and the religious leader, you just interviewed the own the single issue that he actually mentioned aside from generalities is abortion. And I know nobody is pro or. Or against? That's not the point. The question is who makes the decision the woman or the government? He thinks the government should make it. We believe the women should make it. I support his evangelical women and whatever decision they make. But I think they have a right to make it. So this is now the crux of the matter. Right. Because clearly this political battle is this battle this cultural battle and women are again the front line targets. I it's it's not just well cultures. What happens to women politics is what happens demanding. But it is the first most basic question is who controls reproduction if we didn't have wounds, we'd be fine. It's all about and that's where patriarchy began which is relatively new in human history and racism, reinforces it because then you have to restrict reproduction even more in order to maintain racial separation. So. So it's no accident that he is first and foremost trying to take women's control of our own bodies away. So the question is this is low in the United States is the right for a woman to be able to choose Roe versus Wade, nineteen Seventy-three believe and clearly there's an effort because President Trump talks about it and others talk about it. The religious leaders talk about it to stack the cool to change that has what do you both? What do you feel going forward, or do you think that there's no way that could be changed Christine? I do feel that Roe v. Wade will be reversed. I think that it will be up to the states. I think that was Trump's objective, and he achieved it by second the courts the court, and if women do not have the right to choose what to do with our own bodies. We will not be living in a democracy. So what's at stake? Tomorrow election day is not our general democracy, which is at stake, but truly women living in a democracy or not if they. Have the right to do what they want to do with their bodies. It's there's no freedom for women. And I mean, I mentioned the numbers. But oh, this is an unprecedented numbers number of women running. I think they in terms of numbers and percentages. We didn't we haven't seen this since posted need to hill in one thousand nine hundred eighty next in that much much bigger. So would you attribute it to would you think the end result of this will be well, I attributed to a will to govern our own lives and not to have big daddy of they're telling us what to do. Let's not forget that this president lost by six million popular votes, three for Hillary Clinton and three other candidates. He is only in office because someone the Russians are someone understood the electoral college, he is not a popularly elected president. He is not legitimate in the sense that most Americans believe. In in one person one vote. So what do you do then because you heard Tony Perkins? And there's obviously a massive clash between people like you what you've just said and people like the base who believe he's more than Jim it and it delighted with him on a greeting him at every single rally with great fervor, including women. How I mean is there a way at all to be able to reconcile two very diverse populations in the United States. I think so because if Trump wins he will take away the democratic decision making power of women, especially and others to and if he loses we get it back. So I am fighting for the democratic right to govern their own lives of all those evangelicals and they're fighting against ours. So I think that we are enough of democracy. So that the defense of their rights. Mine will win. I guess that's important the defense of their rights and you'll yes. Absolutely. So can I play a little bit from Toronto book who is the original metoo found a because there seems to be an I'm interested in your perspective on this in a moment. A backlash of woman on woman to the metoo moment right now one year later, there's a backlash, but let's just listen to what she said to me about. We are not people to just be pitied. We are a power base that vote along our needs and vote along the the the the things that we want to see change in policy. And so that means more women being voted in. But not just women women who believe the same things, we believe women who are able to to to see us in Harris and believe us. So this seems to be as she you to this sort of attempt to portray women who have complaining about harassment and abuse as promoting a culture of victimhood, and she's like saying, we're not victims. We are to be believed in which be able to you know, to speak truth. How do you attribute that now of all times of certain circles of women basically lobbying against other women? I don't see them. I mean, I don't know who she's talking to you. Well, if it I mean, we're we're lobbying for people to be able to speak their own truth. And it is probably the case that for some women to hear the reality of other women. You know, I remember the days when people woman was raped and people would say, well, why did she go to that neighborhood? And what did she have on? It's sometimes easier to blame the victim than it is to blame the person who is the perpetrator. But now they're saying, oh, it's now all full a Suns of brothers this. They won't be able to. Flirt, we won't be able to hire women to interview women you hearing that right? I'm hearing it. Yes. I'm hearing it. Yes. The the what was it the man metoo or the him to or something has was a support of support group of men for women? But now Trump has kind of twisted that into being men are victims. I don't think men are victims. I do think that a lot of women by osmosis have. Internalized misogyny. And I believe that they like in the play we say, it's not just that we live in patriarchy, but the patriarchy lives in us you can't help. But have that by osmosis get in under your skin that kind of low self esteem that women don't matter. It's everywhere. You look in the media down the street in your neighborhood. It's it's a constant daily mindfulness for me as a feminist to to just be conscious of that of how many times there's so many forces of someone like me who I've spent my life since Korea saved it. You know, really trying to come back back kind of tug of misogyny that is internalized. And I think a lot of these women are feeling that. And they have I mean that might appeal to them is to just be mindful that it's so much better to be full him in being not a second class citizens. This is a phenomenon of all discriminated against groups. I mean in days of anti-semitism which are not over but are better than they used to be. There was literally a desire to change your name to be the only Jew in the club to you know, we absorb society's opinion of us and that happens to women too. But the that was the purpose of a movement is to counter that and say we each have a right not mine is not more than yours. But we each have a right to a dentist by ourselves. So you've spoken unlock new started the conversation about how black women really lead this fight. And you call yourself an intersectional feminist, and I want to. Klay apart from the play which which points this out. This is Dorothy Pitman. Way way ahead of her time because she invented one of the first non set this multi racial child. Can we built this underlying mainly because we see their feminist peak is going out and other parts of the country that's likely in the south and less likely to together and this out. I mean, it is really stunning. And and I just want to know where you think that intersection is right now is that is it still into sectionals much program. It's becoming evermore clear. How diverse we always were. But the rural of black women in starting in founding, the women's movement and feminism altogether is still not in the history books. I mean, it's it's like native American history black history. There are two things history in the past and they are not the same and you said native American. I mean, the whole set is like a circle which glorious says she found out that native American women dealt with that lives through storytelling in a circle. And the thing that just blew my mind was the the pot where you speaking to. She was called man kill a well-known, man. Somebody who you met on of the Iroquois nation, and she was the Cherokee the chiefs. But it was the Iroquois who invited Benjamin Franklin s Satele that soy. It's remarkable. Yeah. So I didn't know that they democracy of our founding fathers without the mothers. I guess the is anyway bass their bass democracy Benjamin, Franklin invited members of the Iroquois nation to confederacy to to constitutional conference constitutional conference and base democracy on that era, quiet confederacy which was without pronouns was a complete a balance between men and women, and they're not Finnan Ratra lineal and their first question was said to be these representatives from the Iroquois nations. The first question is said to be where are the women? They couldn't understand that still being off and taught to think it's grease grease had slavery and no women excuse me. No that was not the basis of democracy. It was the native native, which is amazing lesson to learn all these years later, frankly, but you are hope Hollick and true. And that is great because hope is what keeps us all marching fluid, Gloria Steinem, Christine Lahti. Thank you so much for joining. Thank thank you. So our next guest says that America's political climate is mired in tribalism, the Neal writer, George Packer believes that people of branded by badges of identity, not of thought for example, women versus men and red versus blue not good versus bad package tells out at least Menendez how in the age of Trump fear is also drowning out moderate Republican voices. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me you've written extensively about the midterm elections. One of your most recent articles was about tribalism in America looked at a study that asks questions about tribalism what did that research? Find. Yeah. It was a group called more in common and the report was called hidden tribes. Because what they did was they wanted to find out what people believe beneath there political opinions, what are their world views. What values do they hold? So they surveyed eight thousand Americans, and they ended up dividing them into seven tribes based on answers to questions about child rearing about tradition and thority about personal responsibility versus social circumstance and from left to right. They're progressive activists, traditional liberals, passive liberals. Sort of the checked out moderates. Traditional conservatives devoted conservatives. And what they found is the two extremes. Progressive activists devoted conservatives are only about eighteen or twenty percent of the population. There the people we hear the most from we hear the the most from them. They're on cable news the most their tweets or the loudest. They are the ones who are most engaged in politics. They're also the whitest and the highest income and the closer you get to the middle. The more the income drops and the more minorities there are so the picture is of very educated well off people on each extreme making a fair amount of noise with very strong convictions and not believing in compromise or in looking for middle ground. And then a lot of people in the middle who feel ignored by the political system not heard and who wished there were more compromise and who find the tribalism of our politics depressing. Do you buy this notion of tribalism to some extent? I do. I mean, I've always felt that there is no secret majority waiting to vote for Michael Bloomberg. That's a myth technocrats and people on Wall Street may cherish. There. Really are a lot of people in this country who are polarized from each other who don't know how to talk to each other who look at the political opponent and see an adversary. If not an enemy. But the categories obviously, you're going to break down one to Samin them too closely because nobody is simply affiliated that neatly with one group, they're all sorts of ways in which it gets complicated. When you start asking a lot of questions, for example, a lot of people believe racism is a serious problem in America. I think eighty percent but around the same number are opposed to affirmative action in higher education. So when you ask, you know, where are the racists where the white supremacists? What turns out there's a lot of people who might make you think they're in that category on the basis of one question, but are not on the basis of another. In other words, people are more complicated than our politics gives them room to be he wrote something that stood out to me perhaps. Because I am the mother of a small child you right people who would never tolerate cruelty or lying or even ordinary impoliteness in their children cheer every excess of their leaders. None more so than President Trump. I mean, I talked to Trump supporters who are kind generous people who I would count on in a crisis, and whose children are exactly as I as I described in there, and I avoid the subject of politics because I don't want to hear why therefore him, and I don't want to get into that argument, which is a hopeless argument in almost every case at rather think of them as the people who helped me build a fence or who whose kids babysat for my kids than the people who support a a president who I think is morally the worst president in the history of the country. What do you say to those who think that that makes you complicit in allowing what is happening not happen? We have to live where human beings, if politics takes over everything we're all going to be destroyed by I think, there are those who would argue that that is an argument that one can make from a position of privilege that being that being white at being male in this moment our privileges. Yet that survey found that when it comes to for example, things like political compromise or taking personal responsibility or things that maybe seem more like either middle of the road or even center right positions. The overwhelmingly white progressive activists are less likely to be for that then black moderates or passive liberals, or whatever tribe comes from that survey. So it it may well be that. Yeah. I can sit here and say I want to talk to my neighbors, even if they're for Trump, but I think if that's really about privilege than we're all doomed because it means either your privileged or you're going to disintegrate you're gonna descend into a maelstrom and be chewed up. I think everybody who wants to live has to be able to find a way to talk to people. They disagree with. If we can't do that. I really do despair for our future, and I do despair for our future, by the way, I'm not in the least bit optimistic, but at least try to have a margin where politics can't infect every relationship and your most recent article that came out today you profile congressman Ryan Costello by him. Because he was willing to talk to me. It's not easy to get Republicans to talk to the New Yorker, at least it wasn't for me. I tried what I thought would be the path of least resistance, retiring Republicans, and even then it was hard. He's retiring after two terms because the Pennsylvania supreme court redrew the districts of the congressional districts in Pennsylvania, redo the lines very unfavourably for him. And rather than try for reelection in a democratic district. He retired. He is he will retire. But he's also open and interesting and spontaneous and fun to talk to. So I spent quite a bit of time with him. And also, it seemed reading the article struggling to reconcile his values his ethics, and what his responsibility is to speak out against the president of his own party. Right. He represents a suburban Philadelphia district. It's a moderate district. He is a classic moderate Republican tax. Cuts deregulation. Fairly progressive on social issues cares. A lot about climate change guns. So in other words, he has practically no future in the Republican party as it now is constituted. He's a nearly extinct creature. I think and a lot of them are retiring. So they'll be even less common on the on the battlefield. He is appalled by a lot of what President Trump does. But he's also a loyal soldier in the Republican conference in the house of representatives. He is very admiring of Paul Ryan, the speaker of the house, and when it comes down to it that's his team, and he generally votes with them. But he tweets and speaks on cable news, quite openly and critically of the president. So that makes him a fairly rare Republican in Washington these days, and there was a time when standing up against your own party was lauded as brave as respectable. We're no longer living in a moment. I remember when I was younger senators like Howard Baker of Tennessee. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York. Others who were Mavericks that was a the word people use and it was a compliment. And even if their party leaders were frustrated by them, and their party activists were pissed off that they couldn't count on their votes. They there was a grudging respect and sometimes of a really deep respect for those two senators and people like them. And now, you know, if there's someone analogous, it might be Jeff flake of Arizona is he was frustrates Republicans. And Democrats believe does not go far and exactly you can't win. If you're Jeff flake, no matter what you do you could give a speech or even write a book as he did didn't outsing the Republican party. I mean, saying things that any liberal Democrat would be cheering. It's not enough because he's still votes for tax cuts and to repeal ObamaCare and for Brad Kavanagh. And so for Democrats, he it's worthless. It's just words for Republicans. He's a traitor and his approval ratings are I think like. Close to the single digits, and he had to retire because Donald Trump and the party base went after him. So he too is an ex nearly extinct Republican you wrote in the same article moderates are seen as more expendable than conservatives. Why can't those members of congress that grapple with the president find their voice? Well, those who do are sort of isolated there is a caucus or group called the Tuesday group about fifty Republicans who meet on Tuesdays and our somewhere near the center. They just don't have much clout in congress because the party leadership Paul Ryan speaker and the people around him have to keep their eye on their right wing, which is the freedom caucus the same number forty or fifty but they have the power because they can threaten the leadership with a block vote to get rid of them. They did that with John bainer the predecessor Paul Ryan. And they have the activists and the media and really the heart of the party on their sauce. So is what's limiting them? Then a fear that they won't be affective or fear that they'll be voted out the ladder. I mean fear I asked Charlie debt. Why aren't more repub-, Charlie? Sorry, Charlie dent is another moderate Republican from Pennsylvania who is. Already retired in the middle of the term. So he's out, but he was probably the most outspoken congressional Republican since Trump got elected Castillo voted for Trump dent did not. So there's a bit of a distinction between them. I asked dent. Why are so few Republicans speaking against the president when the grounds for doing? So are just overwhelming. And he said I'll my answer in one word is fear. So fear of not getting reelected fear of a primary challenger fear of I guess being shunned being excommunicated. So would you call Castillo a victim of tribalism in a way? He is he someone who no matter your party -ffiliated, you kind of want people like that in congress. He takes policy seriously. He studies the issues hard. He sort of old fashioned in believing that, you know, your committee assignment. Is really important and reading the Bill is important and making your way up the hierarchy is important. He started out like as town supervisor. And then a county Commissioner if that kind of politician goes way, and everyone is allowed mouth on CNN or FOX and become nationally known for having a quick and nasty thing to say, then that's that's a pretty poor version of Representative government. We're in a moment where much of our partisan politics is also co mingled with identity politics. That's not new. No, it's ancient because people vote and believe and act sometimes in accordance with who. They are who am I your the groups of various kinds that you belong to for a long time Republicans claimed to rise above that that they were speaking to Americans, and they were speaking to the middle class and the heartland and. It was the Democrats who were just a bunch of special interest based on identity. It turned out that all the while the Republican party was moving toward their own version of identity politics. You don't see it clearly, but I think Newt Gingrich is the beginning of this because he introduced a level of partisanship. That was so intense, and Jim no-holds-barred and so- disregarding norms and ethics that it turned Washington into sort of a kind of World War One style trench warfare. And over the years the Republican trench because it was so fixed and static and so willing to. To do anything to win became more and more the white working class trench that was that became the Republican party's base. And once that was their base. They kept pushing both language and issues in that direction. Sarah Palin is a very good example. I see a line from Gingrich to pale into Trump. Trump has finally given it full-throated unapologetic expression from the very top of our government. But it was beginning a long time ago twenty years ago with Gingrich and Gingrich now and surprisingly is a big fan of Donald Trump because they understand each other. They speak that same tribal language, which is both partisan Republican. And also, it's the interests of white Americans white Christian kind of rural Americans. That's the Republican party today. Democrats certainly have their own identity politics. Well, yes, I mean Hillary Clinton's campaign. Always singled out and kind of call out the different groups in her coalition, and this is sort of a normal democratic thing to do gay American straight Americans black Americans white Americans spent to name every identity group, and then to kind of say, but we're all in this together. But really what some voters here is just the names of the groups. And so they don't think this is all of us. They think no she's actually talking about certain groups, and that didn't work very well in two thousand sixteen because she was both. Handicapped by that focus and also by being a traditional. Establishment politician in a year when a lot of Americans wanted to blow the establishment? So it didn't. I think it's a dead end. And I think a candidate who tries to make for example, me to into the rallying cry of the twenty twenty campaign is not going to be able to escape the trap that the Democratic Party sometimes sets for itself. Thank you so much. My pleasure. So wrapping up a theme of identity, politics and tribalism they are indeed and dangerous trap. As we see in. The surge of native is candidates. Not just in America. But all across the world that is it from us for now. Thanks for watching. Remember, you can always listen to a podcast and see us online at I'm dot com. Of course, you can follow me on Facebook into them goodbye from Neo. Are you interested in learning how enterprise scale companies drive organic traffic to increase their online visibility than down of search podcast from the heart of Silicon Valley? Here. Search metrics inks Zeo, Jordan Kuni. He delivers actionable insights to how data to navigate the ever changing landscape of Google. The voices of search podcast arm. Search engine marketers and business analysts with the latest news and insights, they need to ever changing landscape of search engine optimization and content. Are you ready to learn to use search data find strategic insights about your competition in your industry as a whole and search for voices of wherever you download your cast? That's three simple words voices of search to learn the secrets of search engine and content marketing.