20 Episode results for "Mr Kim"

Shade shuts down. CLOP hits pharma. Medical research firm breached. The pain caused by disinformation. Mr. Kim goes downy ocean?

The CyberWire

20:55 min | 1 year ago

Shade shuts down. CLOP hits pharma. Medical research firm breached. The pain caused by disinformation. Mr. Kim goes downy ocean?

"Shade ransomware operators closed down or so they say A. Us Pharmaceutical Company is the victim of KLOPP ransomware and to Chinese medical research firm is breached by cybercriminals centralized versus decentralized approaches to contact tracing a GDP. Our assistant site proves leaky disinformation breeds misinformation. Which breeds folly that brings misery? Ben Yellen tracks responses to the earned it act. Our guest is Katie. Errington CISCO FOR Assistant Secretary for defence acquisition on the cybersecurity maturity model certification and. Mr Kim seems to be Chilean Danny Ocean. It's time to take a moment to tell you about our sponsor recorded future if you haven't already done so take a look at recorded future cyber daily we look at it. The cyber wire staff subscribes and consults it daily the web is rich with indicators warnings but it's nearly impossible to collect them by eyeballing the Internet yourself no matter how many analysts you might have on staff and we're betting that however many you have you haven't got enough recorded future. Does the hard work for you. By automatically collecting an organizing the entire web. Identify new vulnerabilities and emerging threat indicators sign up for the cyber daily email to get the top trending technical indicators crossing the Web Cyber News Targeted Industries? Thread actors exploited Vulnerabilities malware and suspicious. Ip addresses subscribed today and stay ahead of the cyber attacks go to recorded future dot com slash cyber wire to subscribe for free threat intelligence updates from recorded future and we thank recorded future for sponsoring our show funding for this cyber wire. Podcast is made possible in part by McAfee security built natively in the cloud for the cloud to protect the latest like containers to empower your change makers like developers and to enable business accelerators like your team's piled security. That accelerates business. It's about time go to McAfee DOT com slash time run the cyber wire studios at data tribe. I'm Dave Bittner with your cyber wire summary for Tuesday April Twenty Eighth. Two thousand twenty the operators of these shade ransomware also known as Troll dish. Say they've closed up shop in that they regret the harm. They've done as an earnest of their good faith. They've released Z. Denied reports seven hundred fifty thousand decryption keys and expressed the hope that they're victims might use the keys to recover some of their data researchers and Kaspersky have looked at the keys and said that they're genuine. Why the gang behind shade one of the oldest not the most consistently successful ransomware strains decided to shut operations is unclear. Bleeping computer points out that shade unlike many gangs didn't shun Russian or Ukrainian targets and in fact was most active in those two countries. One always suspects that feeling. The hot breath of the law on your neck is a more effective. Goad the promptings of a troubled conscience on the other hand. If that's the case why bother released the keys in another ransomware incident pharmaceutical company executive farm has disclosed that it was the victim of a ransomware attack in March. The attackers compromised an encrypted personal data belonging to employees of executive farm as well as information concerning employees of Parixel that was also maintained on executive farm servers. Tech crunch confirmed that KLOPP ransomware was specifically involved. No descriptors are yet available for KLOPP and the gang has begun to publish the stolen data on dark website. Hackery reports that security firm. Cybele says it's found evidence that the Biomedical Company. Weighing medical has hacked and that some of its stolen data are now for sale in the dark web cycles report says that a threat actor going by the name Theo. Time who claim Simul deems credible is asking for bitcoin for weighing data. The stolen information is said to include users technology and knowledge for Kovic nineteen experiments information weighing medical. Gained a degree of fame or notoriety for its strong claims reported by venture beat and others that it has a method of using C. T. Scans to detect Kovic nineteen infections and that their technology has a ninety seven percent accuracy rate the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend against using either C. T. Scans or x rays for Kovic Nineteen diagnosis as do radiological professional organizations in Canada New Zealand. The US and Australia apple and Google are rolling out there. Decentralized contact tracing APP and it's found favor in some places Germany among them. Britain's National Health Service will not be using it however the NHS is pursuing its own system that will also use Bluetooth low energy signals as a proxy for close approaches to possible sources of infection but the BBC says NHS wants the data centralized the better to adapt them to closer management of the pandemic. According to the New Statesman the British health agency has brought in. Us Big data company pollen tear to help them develop their preferred alternative. Gdp are dot e you a proton run site co funded by the European Union that offers pointers about GDP compliance was found by pen test partners to be leaking data. It is now secured. It was dot git repository if your work touches the federal government sector. You should be well aware of the cybersecurity. Maturity Model certification the C. M. M. C. Katie. Arrington is so for Assistant Secretary for defence acquisition at the US. Department of Defense accumulatively. We're losing about six hundred billion dollars a year in the US to cyber espionage IP Loss Then straight cyber espionage and so we knew we had to do something different and we had In two thousand fourteen President Obama signed in special publication. Eight hundred dash one seventy one are one and it was directed that all department of Defense contracts that had cu I controlled classified information Had to be a testing to doing these hundred and ten controls in that Guideline and so we just needed a way to create You know get companies a prepared for the data that they'd be receiving and to have an auditable trackable way to do that Understanding the resourcing within the DOD so we understood. Clearly that this needed to be outside. The government Something that companies much like an Ice Oh certification and we could then make sure that everybody had the critical thinking skills behind fiber that are needed to defend themselves in this This industrial age. And where do we stand today when it comes to the rollout so the roll out We put the model out in January of two thousand twenty the accreditation body that is actually the ones that certify the auditors they are working on the training in curriculum programs. We are still on target to rule out some are F is in June with the EMC in it. That you know. We're in the process of the rule. Change to the deeper rule. So we're still on target I'm not gonNA pretend and say that. Kobe nineteen hasn't had a impact as the training for those you know this. Emc that's what's really struggling because we did When we originally set it up it was a fifty fifty split. Fifty percent of the education and the training was online in fifty percent was in person. We have the training and curriculum. I just don't know how we can Modify quickly enough to execute In early May. That's the only Caveat that we have right now and what has the response been overall to the folks at this is going to affect? How were they reacting to it in the beginning A little bit of you know why Now it's Widely accepted that. This is the path forward That everybody needs to have cyber hygiene and that everyone needs to have some critical thinking skills behind it so we've actually had an overwhelming response Moving forward everyone needs cybersecurity. And and you know Kogo. Nineteen has shown us that You know the the world the nation our culture The way we deal with each other has changed. There's anything positive to me made out of this. It's the heightened awareness of why the EMC was desperately needed. And you know what impact cyber has on. On Day to day life it's been a resounding Effort at that maturation now during this horrible time in our country and our our world history. That's Katie Errington. She's so for Assistant Secretary. For defence acquisition state run disinformation can gain surprising amplification when it finds an audience. The Chinese Communist. Party's claims that Kovic nineteen was brought to Wuhan in October a US service members participating in the World Military Games a kind of goodwill Olympics among the world's military services have been widely broadcast by Chinese officials statements often in the form of a call for investigation sometimes with the suggestion that the virus was an American bioweapon. Us Secretary of Defense. Esper- calls the allegation completely ridiculous and irresponsible. And we're with him on that but not everybody is and everybody in. This case includes some youtubers. Cnn reports that one US Army reservist who participated in the Games has been called out as the source of infection and is receiving all the hostile attention. One would expect the charge that the reservist is the patient zero of the infection and the prime mover in. The pandemic is of course absurd. But that hasn't prevented youtubers from pushing it. Acting in effect as a kind of cyber mob prominent among the youtubers flagging the story is a gentleman whom we will not name. Cnn calls a misinformation broker but who describes himself as investigative journalist? He's propounded numerous conspiracy theories in the past to the extent that Google has stopped running ads on his channel. He is as he would put it only asking questions but the questions are specific and damaging especially to the reservists who has nothing to do with the virus at all and is being mobbed for it. False suggestion is a form of false witness. But Hey they're just asking questions right. Finally it now seems likely that rumors of North Korean leader Kim Jong UN's death or incapacitation are false. The Washington Post Cites. Us and South Korean sources. That suggest Mr Kim and his private trainer in one son on the Korean East Coast. The rumors had prompted and will no doubt continue to prompt speculation about the future of the North Korean regime jockeying for succession and so on but Mr Kim's father and grandfather were similarly content to let unfounded accounts of their death. Circulate that may be the case with Young's current leader. One son is in some sources being described as a seaside resort but in truth the port city might be more Perth amboise or even Port Elizabeth than it is Ashbury Park but assume it's DPRK ashbury park or ocean city. Let's Mr Kim Up to enjoying the boardwalk little miniature golf ab skibo. Hey we're just asking questions and now a word from our sponsor last pass last passes an award-winning security solution. That helps millions of individuals and over sixty one thousand organizations navigate their online lives easily and securely businesses can maximize productivity while still maintaining effortless strong security with last pass. Security is essential for a remote workforce last past identity helps make stronger security seamless through integrated single sign on Password Management and multi factor authentication last pass identity enables remote teams to increase security. Last pass can help prevent against the uptick in cyber attacks targeting remote workers through biometric authentication across APPs workstations and VPN's for an additional layer of security across all critical devices. It can help manage user access regardless of where or how employees need access last Passan's shores employees always have secure access to their work applications through single sign on and Password Management. It helps your employees securely share last pass enables remote employees to securely share passwords across teams in order to securely collaborate and stay on top of critical projects and it helps maintain control last pass enables it to remain in complete control over which employees are accessing which resources no matter where they're working from with last pass identity. You can keep your remote workforce secure and connected visit last pass dot com to learn more. That's last pass dot com and we thank last pass for sponsoring our show and joining me. Once again. Is Ben Yellen. He is from the University of Maryland Center for Health and Homeland Security. Also my co host on the caveat podcast Ben Great to have you back interesting Article Came by from Mash -able And this is something you and I have been talking about quite a bit over on caveat and that is the earned act which is Something making its way through Congress but It's gotten a response from the folks who make the signal APP which is end to end encryption Communications APP allows you to text and have audio conversations and video and so forth They're saying they may pull out of the US market. If this earn it act goes through a help us understand what's going on here. Sure so the earned act was introduced in the United States Senate. And you know you and I love Legislative acronyms eliminating abusive and rampant neglect of interactive technologies. Act of Twenty Twenty. They even included the word. It the acronym so that high praise absolutely. The bill has a bipartisan sponsors. And it basically is a way to make companies comply with best practices in terms of encryption based on the recommendations of a government-appointed commission. Now the way they will try to enforce these best practices is to remove the protections under section two thirty of the communications decency. Act as your listeners. Know and we've talked about the caveat that act as shields companies from liability based on what the users post on those applications or services if the earn it acts were to be an accidental law and the commission put together regulations that were critical of end to end. Encryption services like signal then signal could be subject to a number of lawsuits under section two thirty of the Communications Decency Act and what signal is saying is it would not be worth it for us to do business within the United States if we were subject to those lawsuits I think their fear is certainly a legitimate one. The commission is largely going to be at the direction of the attorney. General the Attorney General of the United States. William bar is a foremost One of the foremost critics of end to end encryption encryption generally he supports a back door for the government to access information he has his legitimate reasons behind it. This bill is intended to curb child abuse. Child pornography those types of things But he is very hostile to the concept of encryption and if he has his hand in putting these regulations together you know this is likely going to be something that signal will choose not to comply with because it would go against the mission of their messaging service and if they fail to comply they would be subjecting themselves to legal liability and would have to leave the market And they let their their users know about this In a long blog post basically said. Look if you enjoy our application you better start making some calls to your senators Right now this. Has BIPARTISAN SUPPORT? There is a lot of opposition among privacy groups. And we need you are users to make your voice heard to tell your members of Congress that you value our service value end to end encryption and you think earn it act is gonNA undermine that surface well in a lot of folks Make the point which which I think is correct. That encryption is is not exotic so if we're trying to protect ourselves from bad guys there's nothing keeping a bad guy from going off. Shore of the United States and finding some encryption some end to end encrypted APP. That's available somewhere else and making use of it right. And in that sense the sort of introduced a perverse incentive for people to use overseas applications applications. That you know aren't headquartered in the United States because as you say this. This encryption is going to excess. It's just whether you know. The commission rights into regulation that this type of encryption doesn't comply with the Commission's best practices and thus companies are going to be subjected to this flood of lawsuits. So I think you're right that any bad guy could find encrypted application. There are a lot of them out there especially those that originate outside of the United States. I think that's a large purpose for such widespread opposition to this piece of legislation in Congress. And I actually just commenting on that. Opposition it's interesting because for people who don't know a lot about digital privacy when you read the Plain Language of this act. It seems like a no brainer. You know we're trying to protect against child exploitation. Let's put best practices in place to ensure that you know the government can get bad guys if it needs to. So it's good that the that these privacy groups And you know some of these applications like signal that have a loyal user. Base are are getting their voices heard on this matter. I isn't it sort of That phrase best practices. Isn't that a bit loaded in this case it? Is You know. Best Practices as consultant. Speak so you know I'm always. I'm always wary of fat term. They're using best practices but when you're threatening to remove a liability shield not really best practices. It's more like do this year. Get sued so that's company Nice Company. You've got here abuse. Shame if anything were to happen to it exactly. Yeah like this is a good idea for you. It will be good idea for engage in these practices. Not You're going to be sued at business if you don't comply so yeah definitely is a loaded term all right. We'll bend yell and thanks for joining us. Thank you dave. And that's the cyber wire links to all of today's stories. Check out our daily briefing at the cyber wire dot com and for professionals in cybersecurity leaders. Who WANT TO STAY. Abreast of this rapidly evolving field sign up for Cyber Wipro. It'll save you time and keep you informed. Listen for us on your Alexis. Smart Speaker to thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible especially are supporting sponsor observed approved point company and the leading insider threat management platform learn more at observant dot com cyber wire. Podcast is proudly produced in Maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe with their CO building. The next generation of cybersecurity teams and technologies are amazing. Cyber wire team is Elliott Peltzman Peru precaut- Stefan vizier. Kelsey bond. Tim No Dr Joe. Kerrigan Herald. -Tario Ben Yellen Nick Valenti Gina Johnson Bennett Mobile Chris Russell John Patrick Jefferson. Rick Howard. Peter Kilby I'm Dave Bittner. Thanks for listening so you back here tomorrow.

US Assistant Secretary Ben Yellen KLOPP ransomware US Centers for Disease Control Mr Kim M. M. C. Katie Congress Kovic Dave Bittner A. Us Pharmaceutical Company McAfee Google CISCO University of Maryland Center Department of Defense Chilean Danny Ocean EMC
K2: The Savage Mountain | The Death Zone | 2

Against The Odds

48:52 min | Last week

K2: The Savage Mountain | The Death Zone | 2

"Join one replay to listen to against the odds one week early and add free and the wondering app. Download the free app in your apple or google. Play mobile app store today. It's four thirty pm august. I two thousand and eight. Cecilia school stands on a vast snowfield staring up at the summit ridge of the second tallest mountain in the world. She's been climbing nonstop for almost twenty hours except for a short nap can't four but for a moment. She forgets her aching muscles. The site is breathtaking. The snow sparkles in brilliant sunshine. And the top of the mountain is finally visible silhouetted against the immaculate blue sky. The most dangerous parts of the climb are behind her for now the icy traverse steep narrow bottleneck now. She just needs to put one foot in front of the other and dig in as she makes slow trek up the thirty degree slope through the deep snow. Her breathing is labored thin. Air at twenty eight thousand feet. Many of the climbers on the mountain are using supplementary oxygen but cecilio left her bottle below with her husband. Ralph without oxygen. It feels like breathing through a straw with a ten pound sack of potatoes on her stomach but she tries to keep her mind on the goal she turns to her teammate. Lars nessa. Have you ever seen anything so perfect. I've never seen anything like k. To lars is twenty eight years old and the most junior member of the four-person or weeds and team. He's not a full-time climber. Like cecilia. and rolf back at home. He's a nurse when he agreed to the trip. He never imagined he would make it this far if they reach the top. You'll be one of an elite group of mountaineers who summited k two. Cecilia looks up to see climber coming their way. He has a confident easy. Walk and he doesn't wear an oxygen mask when he gets close. Cecilia sees its alberto's iran q. Remembers him from camp to on the way up. He's a solo climber from the basque country. In spain she saw him helping pemba sherpa earlier. That morning laying rope across the traverse his faces ruddy from the fresh air. Lars is first to speak. Wow no one would guess you just summited the second highest mountain in the world. You're in really good shape. Suddenly cecilia feels strong urge to move. How much further is it. She sees alberto hesitate but she can't read his face. Finally he says at least two hours maybe a bit more cecillia nods and continues walking. She needs to hurry if she's going to keep her promise to ralph and get back to before sunset over to watch a cecilia as she heads towards the peak thinking of how strong and beautiful she looks in the sun. She's full of life. He wasn't sure how to answer when she asked how far he could take years. Maybe four what he wanted to say was it's getting late term back and it's not worth the risk. But he saw the excitement in her eyes and didn't have the heart to discourage her he's worried about. All of the climbers. Now making their way to the top the sun will set soon which means they will be coming down in the dark. we get support from. Adt no matter what you wanna protect. Nobody has more experience helping. Keep it safe than eighty. I mean check this out. They've received the most burglar alarm events in the industry and help save more lives than any other home security provider. They were called the best home security system of two thousand twenty by us news and the number one smart home security provider by strategy analytics in two thousand twenty. Adt has over twenty thousand employees experience in helping. Keep you safe. That's twenty four seven peace of mind from the creators of the home security. Category experience matters. That's why millions of people trust. At to protect what matters most and to keep them safe get all the latest security upgrades from the largest name and home security by visiting adt dot com today at stands for quality and timeless protection. Visit adt dot com. Today against the odds is brought to you by progressive. Are you thinking more about how to tighten up your budget. These days drivers who save by switching to progressive. Save over seven hundred dollars on average and customers can qualify for an average of six discounts. When they sign up a little off your rate each month goes a long way. Get a quote today. At progressive dot com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates national annual average insurance savings by new customers surveyed in two thousand twenty potential savings vary discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations from wondering. I might corey. And this is against the ons on august first. Two thousand and eight. A group of climbers from eight countries set out to climb the world's second tallest mountain k. Two they were bullied by hope and optimism. They had spent months at base camp waiting out bad weather but a window of opportunity had finally opened their goal to make it up the steep face of the mountain by pm and descend before nightfall. The most difficult part of the client but delays lang rope on the trail. The climbers to hold onto have set them behind and another climbers fall has unsettled the group now. The summit is so close but so nightfall. This is episode to the hanging man. Cecilia scuba brushes by the korean climbing team and steps onto the summit. It's five thirty pm and the day is perfect. Not a single gust of wind. The sky is vibrant blue. She's the fourth climber up the day to reach the top just behind her teammate lars. Congratulations cecilia wow we did it. Cecilia grins back with pure joy and she looks around. The summit is small about one hundred and fifty square feet the size of a small bedroom but the view. It's glorious mountain. As far as the eye can see leading to china pakistan and india far below the glaciers carved soft billowy designs through the snow. Cecilia turns encircles drinking it. All in all would love this. She thinks lars. Let's take some photos lars polls norwegian flag from his pack while cecilia takes a banner from her hometown. Soccer team lars. Get the hat before. Cecilia left. rolf on the snowfield. He gave his pink bunny hat to lars and has long droopy years lars puts it on his head from the corner of her eye. Cecilia sees the korean climbers pulling themselves over the top. They are the largest team on the mountain. Its leader is a highly experienced climber known around the camp as mr kim but the real star of the korean team is going son. Better known a base camp as ms go. She's a stocky woman with apple. Red cheeks buff by the elements in her home country of korea. She's famous a household name and a seven-time champion games. Now she's halfway through request. Become the first woman to climb all fourteen of the world's highest peaks. Cecilia holds upper camera. Go we should get a pitcher. They're only the ninth and tenth women to climb to the top of two. It's a moment to celebrate but cecilia can't shake the nagging thought that the sun will set soon lars. We should head down it's it's getting really late lars nods. He's thinking the same thing. Cecilia takes one last look at the beautiful panorama a site not many people get to see then the to begin the long trek back down the slope pemba gil j sherpa steps onto the summit at six thirty pm. He's the first member of the dutch nor team to arrive. Even without oxygen feel strong. Now he's standing on what feels like the top of the world. The home of the gods pemba watches as more climbers arrive. They look wild the happy but exhausted as he waits for the team. He offers to take pitchers for the others. One of the french climbers handsome camera. His name is huge deal berate. He's sixty one years old and the second oldest person to ever climb k two. It's so beautiful pemba. My life's ambition. This is my last climb. What a glorious one. It is when they're done with the photos. Hugh offers pemba satellite phone. Call your family. Tell them about the glorious view. Pemba shakes his head. We need to go down. I can tell them in person soon. Enough as pemba watches. The sun slowly arch down across the western horizon. Cheering door j. joins him. Cheering is the sherpa from the american team. And the second to arrive the to hug and congratulate one another. It's the first time on k. Two for them both and they both summited without supplemental oxygen but under their smiles. Pemba and cheering are worried. It's nearly seven. pm it's unavoidable now. All of the climbers will be heading back down in the dark yet. None of them seem to be concerned. After twenty our climbing this altitude people are physically and mentally drained. The adrenaline used to get up. The mountain is now gone. The thin air and lack of oxygen to the brain leads to slowed reactions. The mind is confused. Physical coordination becomes difficult hallucinations. Set in and no one wants to be hallucinating in the dark at twenty eight thousand feet up pemba son. It's seven pm. There's maybe one hour left of light before. Dusk covers the mountain and hayes and his team still isn't here wilco. Von ruin hadn't imagined the climb up to the summit would be hard without supplemental oxygen. It's even harder. He takes a few steps at a time and then rests on his ice axe ten steps. Rest another ten steps then rest. When that word of mouth he falls to his hands and knees and crawls keep going when he reaches the top of the ridge he stands up for the last few steps top. He made it. He raises his arms over his head reaching into the sky and begins to cry k. To four members of the nor team reached the peak one after the next gen mcdonnell pemba sherpa and cast fonder hateful. They gathered together in a group hug. Laughing and weeping. We did it. We did it. The view of the mountain range from the top is so bright and clear. Wilco almost feels dizzy. Wilco calls back to holland on his satellite phone. Martin martin there. We're standing on top of k to the news of their triumph will be instantly relayed around the world germ donald wipes his eyes when he summited. Denali irish drum known as a badran. He joked that it sounded like a pair of sneakers. Tumble-drier today he pulls the green white and orange flag of the republic of ireland out of his jacket pocket. He unfurled the flag and extends it with both hands towards the sky jurists. The first irishman to conquer k. Two on the way up he had taught some of the other climbers in old irish phrase. Chuck gar- la which means our time will come. Now it has. We'll go hands him. His satellite phone. Call your family. Jer pulls off his gloves and dials home to ireland and he picks up the phone on the first ring. And you're not gonna believe where i am. Cecilia and lars make their way back down the snowfield towards the traverse. It's seven thirty pm. It's getting cold. Fast and cecilia is eager to find. Ralph the setting sun as the mountain in a soft dusty light. Cecilia stops for a picture. I think we'll just make it back to the ropes by nightfall. The thin air makes the celia feel weak her. She left her spare bottle down below for her husband. Laura's i think i need some oxygen lars knots. He pulls the oxygen pipes from his nose and hands them to cecilia base. Stay close trading them back and forth as they walked down. They walk for an hour. Cecilia squint into the distance. Looking for roles familiar coat. Ralph ralph cecelia's voice carries across the silence snowfields. Then she sees him. He's sitting on a small hill of snow as if he has all the time in the world as soon as he spots her he jumps to his feet and he gives her a hug. Congratulations you did it. We did but we missed you. Cecilia is proud of her husband. It took courage to go about so close to the summit. It just shows what she always knew about him. He's more interested in the spirit of adventure and the experience than risking his health for the end goal. How are you feeling now better. But my oxygen is almost out. We need to get back down to the ropes. Cecilia hands in the tubes from lars oxygen. Then the three of them head down the snowfield to the traverse. It's nearing eight pm. When the dutch team starts down from the summit they are the last ones to leave. Wilco can feel the exhaustion in every part of his body after the twenty hour. Climb on almost no sleep the adrenaline enjoy from reaching the top has been replaced by an overpowering need to sleep. Looks over at irishman germ donal hedger. We have any energy bars left but he knows the answer. The team ran out of water and snacks hours ago. Now is the time. He'll need to dig deep and find buried reserves of physical and mental strength but as he lumbers forward his legs feel heavy. He's so tired maybe if he sits down just for a minute besides his teammate. Cass is still up at the top with an italian clamor taking a few last final pictures. Hilda's rest for five minutes and then get up. When he comes he plops down in the snow falls beside him. Neither say a word only pemba. Sherpa remained standing looking down the slope. A puzzled expression on his face. Is that the korean team down there. They left an hour ago. Bay should be much farther wilko's quince but he can't think straight i dunno pemba. Pemba looks back at the summit. The final member of the dutch north team is making his way down followed. By the italian climber. Hembo looks at wilco injure their strong. He'd seen her on. He's climbed many peaks. Listen i'm going to go down to the koreans the help we need to make sure. The rope is laid down the traverse. They not but it's not clear if they heard him. Pemba turns around to show to pass and the italian. Hurry down after me emotions to jerem wilco. And make sure they come with you and then begins the long trek across the snowfield down the mountain when the norwegian team reaches the rope leading down to traverse. It's almost dark but cecilia feels hopeful role. Wanted to get to the rope before nightfall and they did barely. Cecilia looks at her teammates and grins. So who's going. First laura's volunteers. Cecilia watches him clipped onto the rope and dropped down. She follows behind. Rolf is on the line. It's an easier appel about one hundred and twenty feet. The giant column of glacial ice looms above them go sleep a night when they get to the ledge they stopped to regroup listening to the creeks and groans as the melted ice water inside the mountains crevices expand and contract ahead of them is the top of the traverse a path of ice and snow that wraps around the mountain in the dark it will be slippery dangerous and if they fall off the edge they will drop down thousands of feet lars offers to lead the way again but ralph says he'll go. Let's put cecilia in the middle. Cecilia watches as her husband slides. His carribean her down the length of rope and maneuvres steep icy slope. She follows the light from his lampedusa gets smaller and smaller and then disappears. She peers into the darkness and follows behind. She can hear her breath in her ears. It's hard to tell how far the bottleneck is after an hour. She figures there may be halfway there. The night is quiet except for the occasional creek of the glacier and the sound of her boots on the ice at first she hardly notices when she hears the rumble. But then it grows louder and the mountain starts to shake. Cecilia is thrown. Off-balance crashes into the wall of ice the rope holding her in pulls tight then releases. Everything's around her. It feels like the entire mountain might collapse shards of ice shower down on her head. She tries to hold onto the wall. But there's nowhere to grab what's happening. She hears woo vice. Falling a piece of ceramic must have dislodged but where and then it stops. Cecilia is now alone in the dark. Her headlamp is out. It's freezing cold. Whereas ralph she peers into the darkness whereas lamp should be rolf. Her voice is soft then louder role. Nothing comes back except the echo of her own calls. Ralph cecilia are you okay. Cecilia jumps at the sound of a voice behind her. It's lars lars. Where's role what happened. I wanna see rolf. Lars looks at the panic on cecelia's face and realizes he has to be calm. Wait here he moves along the traverse feeling for the ice screw that holds the rope but when he finds it is wrong. Hanging from the screw is an empty oxygen bottle. Lars looks down below the screw and sees nothing. The rope line just ends cut cleanly as if it was severed by a knife. His mind scrambles quickly the icefall must have sliced through the rope taking roll with it. There's no way he survived. He's gone he has to get back to cecilia. He can hear her calling for rolf again. He quickly makes his way back up. The rope think focus. He has to get cecilia down when he reaches her. She's clinging to the ice wall shivering. Do you think there's still hope lars shakes his head. No cecilia won't believe it. No we have to find him. We have to go. He reaches into his back and pulls at a row and quickly fixes it to an anchor. Maybe if they're lucky they'll have just enough to make the rest. The way down the bottleneck. Cecilia i'm going to go down. I'll find a way out. You wait here for me okay. Her eyes are wide but she knots then he slips down into the depths with indeed. You're closer than you've ever been to hiring candidates with the skills you need. That's because indeed is the job site that makes hiring as easy as one two three post screen and interview all in one place. You'll get your quality shortlist of candidates whose resumes on indeed match your job description faster. He'll also only pay for the candidates that meet must have qualifications. And you can schedule and complete video interviews right there in your indeed dashboard indeed makes connecting with an hiring the right talent fast and easy with tools like indeed instant match giving you quality candidates whose resumes on indeed fit your job description immediately and indeed skills tests that on average reduce hiring time by twenty seven percent according to talent nest indeed delivers four times. More hires than all other job sites combined. If you're hiring you need indeed get started right now with the free seventy five dollars sponsored job credit upgrade your job post indeed dot com slash. The ons that's a seventy five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash. The ons one more time that's indeed dot com slash. The odds offer valid. Through june thirtieth terms and conditions apply brought to you by marvel studios loki and original series streaming. This wednesday only on disney. Plus tom hit allston returns as everyone's favourite imperious of mischief as ventures outside of time and space in the sixth episode event. Also starring owen wilson google mathura and woman misako. The series takes place after the events of avengers. Endgame don't miss marvel studios loki original series streaming. This wednesday only on disney plus. Cecilia hits her headlamp. The light flickers once and has gone. She can't see thing and now she's alone on the mountain in the dark without ralph. Her heart is racing tears. Roll down her face. An image flashes into her mind his smiling face as he built so to dylan tune on his her monica blow in the wind. She shakes her head. He must be here somewhere. Maybe he's hurt waiting for them and then she hears a voice from below cecilia. It's lars cecilia. repel down. it's okay. Just hurry. She reaches forward in the dark and fuels for the rope. She gives it a tug and then slides down into the darkness as she repels headlamp flickers on and off casting eerie shadows on the ice and rock maybe lars found rolf. She thinks they'll be standing at the bottom waiting for her. They can go home together when she gets to the bottom. She looks around no roof. Only lars where is he she feels cheated like lars tricked her into coming down but then she sees lars face in the soft glow of his headlamp. It's gentle and soft cecilia. Listen he's gone. We have to go look for him tomorrow when it's light k. Cecilia stands frozen trying to comprehend it all just this morning. The sun was shining and she was looking down into her husband's smiling face. Now it's dark and he's gone. She puts one foot in front of the other and continues down. The pemba sherpa looks over the edge of the icy slope above the traverse. It's ten pm. He made good time down the snowfield and quickly found the top of the traverse. There's a problem. There's no rope leading down. The korean team took it after they descended. The only thing left behind was the ice axe. They used to anchor the rope now. The koreans are seated down below quiet and exhausted. This means the remaining climbers on the mountain will need to get down the one hundred fifty foot wall without the aid of a rope a drop. That's roughly the height of twelve story. Building he walks back a few paces and confers with sherpa cheering door jay. From the american team they decide to descend and wait for the others at the bottom. Maybe they can help. Guide them down while they wait. Pemba watches the korean team. There disoriented and their movement. Slow it takes some of them fifteen minutes to put on their headlamps a tasks that would normally only take two at last. Here's the voices of his teammates from above the ridge. There's no rope. He shouts be careful. Go very slowly. The men kicked their crampons and access into the ice for support and slowly carefully lower themselves down. Pemba is glad to see them. Along with the climber from italy when they get to firm ground they stand quietly against the wall staring into the shadowy darkness around them. One of the mumbles. Our we find the rope. Everything just looks the same there in even worse shape than the last pemba sabam the altitude and the climb up have decimated all of them. The korean team leader. Mr kim sits in the snow panting for breath. No one is leading the way or at all. If someone doesn't do something they will all die here on. The mountain. pemba quickly calls the small group of sherpas together. The four of them are the only ones still in good shape listen. The climbers need our help to get down the traverse. We're going to need to rope them together. Does anybody have a rope. One of the sherpa rustles through his pack. I have one. I saved and in case of emergency. That's great. we'll stand to at the front and two at the end will hold onto the rope. And the climbers can click on that way we can help them get to the traverse. Everyone nods then. They begin shouting directions at climbers clip on here. Fix your harnesses to this rope. But everyone is moving so slowly. One of the climbers just lays there in the snow unresponsive gazing blankly up at the sky pemba crouches down and wraps his arms around the man's torso hauling up. Another sherpa helps flipping the climber's harness onto the rope. Line get up. You have to stand now. There could be an avalanche at any time. He's relieved to see two of the climbers. Now appear alert. Cast his teammate. From the north team and marco comfort tola the only italian climber to make it up to the summit from the italian team. Marco was an experienced climber and guide having summited six of the tallest mountains in the world. Hembo is glad to have us help. Pemba checks the line and turns to the climbers. Let's go please. We need to walk but walking is hard for everyone with each step. The climbers feet sink into the snow. Making them think they're on a steeper. Climb than they are. One climber takes two steps forward and plops back down into the snow exhausted pulling others down with them. Some of them fall asleep. Get up please. You have to keep moving together. None of them can see the trail when they do walk they wander left and right bumping into each other pemba worries a disoriented climber street too close to the edge and they'll fall off dragging everyone else with them in the dark. It's hard to see anything but the ropes must be here somewhere all at once. The line of climbers stops and one by one they sink to the ground and relief then a few clip from the line and begin to wander off premise. Is this isn't working. He gathers the sherpas again. This is impossible to find the start of the fixed rope passing. You come with me. We'll go ahead when we find the rope. You signal back to the others and you come with your headlamp okay. Pasang lama is the sherpa from the korean team. He knots he in pemba moved quickly up the snow until they find the ridge of the rock down below embassies. The first anchor glinting in the headland saying this is it using them to the others and wait for them here. I'll repel down to check the rest of the anchors and make sure the rope securely fixed. When pemba gets to the first anchor he sees it solid. The second isn't a secure and the rope line is buried beneath ice and snow. He pulls it out and fixes a second screw next to him. He doesn't get to the third anchor because a few feet past the second he can see. Something's not quite right. The rope is hanging loose. It's not tied to an anchor. It's not tied to anything. It looks like it's been cut by something. But what pemba aims. His light around the bottleneck. The light cast shadows craggy rock then. He aims his headlamp straight up. A huge chunk of this is simply gone. It's collapsed there. Must have been an avalanche. He points his headlamp down the bottleneck below and his heart starts to race. The avalanche away everything including the rope. Now he has no idea how. The climbers coin to get down. It's almost midnight and cecilia. Scoop feels like asleep walker. She still can't believe all the rope. And the bottleneck is just gone. It's been completely swept away by the avalanche. The gully is littered with shards of ice loose. Rock she enlarged have to move slowly step by step lars climbs ahead using his ice axe and crampons to the footholds. In the ice. Every few yards he stops shines his headlamp upwards to help guide cecilia. She isn't sure if she will make it but then she hears lars is encouraging voice. Almost there a few more steps. Just keep going. After thirty minutes. The ground feels more steady flatter. And she's able to stand up straight and walk slowly using her ice axe to steady her progress and then cecelia's catches on one of the rocks and she's tumbling down the mountain. She screams for lars. But there's nothing we can do. She's starting to pick up speed. She grabs her ice axe and lifts it over her head and slams into the snow. Oliver might she comes to jet ring. Halt lars russia's down cecilia. Are you okay. She pats her hands over her body. Her pants are ripped but nothing else is broken lars polls cecilia to her feet and they keep going but cecilia is shaken cold. What's the point. She's so tired but then she hears a voice. You must go on. Go over to the rope clip on. Its ralph but he's not here but he is in her head. She wonders if she's hallucinating. But the voice sounds so clear. They're nearing the end of the bottleneck in there in the snow is the rope laid by the circus earlier in the day. She and lars both claybon. You got the rope okay. Good now check your equipment in the distance. They see a flashing strobe light. Someone in camp for must have put it out for the climbers. It's like a lighthouse. Signaling to a stricken ship on a storm tossed as she gets closer she starts to think wolf. We'll be waiting for her. of course he will. He's always so safety conscious. He'll be there she has to hurry. You might be worried when they reach camp four and she crawls into the tenth they shared. She sees data sympathy with ad. free listening. Find your next podcast with the premium personalized experience on one hundred plus like against the odds. These highly immersive series takes you straight into the action of the most thrilling survival stories. Here's a quick preview. But then something glints in the beam of his roving flashlight. A pair frightened eyes staring back at him. You can't believe there. In the shadows a few feet in front of him. Shivering yet alive is a child alot. The child says trembling voice then one by one more silhouettes emerged from the dark. How how many your little grigor. Rick looks back sean. My god we found them. We found all of them. Listen to against the odds early and add free by joining one plus amazon prime members can get four months free by going to www dot amazon dot com slash prime day wondering dri p l u s terms and conditions apply. Wandry feel the story. Ms go shifts from foot to foot trying to stay awake. It's been over an hour since the two sherpas left to look for the rope or maybe it's been longer. She can't be sure her mind is fuzzy like her brain is wrapped a blanket of cotton. She's still holding onto the rope. The sharpest had them clip onto so they wouldn't get lost. Mr kim look over his shoulder and clips from the line moscow. Please listen we have to go on ahead. We can't wait here any more when he defined the fixed rope to help us get down. Mr kim is not only careers team. Leader he's miss goes closest climbing companion last year. They conquered three twenty six thousand foot peaks. Together he's always looked out for her like a mother hen guarding and chick but right now she's not sure what he means she can't think straight but we have to wait here. The sherpas went on ahead. They told us to wait moscow. I'm afraid i'm getting frostbite. I can't feel my feet at all. We need to go down. Miss go shakes her head. But we can't leave the rest of the team jimmy with them. They'll be fine. And if we can find the anchor and rope we can bring the other there. Yes that's right. Jimmy carr's here. Dramatic boteh is. Miss goes favourite sherpa. She thinks of him almost like her own son. They can trust you. Hugh will make sure nothing goes wrong. Okay yes let's go the to surge forward past the rest of the team. Then they veer off. Searching for the traverse marco convert tola tries to pierce the darkness with his headlamp. He sees a few members of the korean team. Up ahead and germany donal. He's up there too. He agreed with pemba and the other sherpas when they suggested clipping everyone to moving rope line to look for the traverse but now the sherpas have left and some of the climbers haven't clipped others are inching forward or to the side with no clear direction. they're zigzagging like a crocodile with no idea where they're going. This is madness markle and clips from the rope and scrambles up next to jer- he thinks of jurors a friend. They spent long nights talking at base camp. He's even given him a nickname. Jesus because of jurors long hair and beard. He needs to convince him that. This is a bad idea. Walking around in the dark could cost them their lives jer. I don't think we can find the rope line tonight. I think we should just wait until the sun comes up. You know you're stares at him blankly the lack of oxygen as affecting him badly so you mean. Spend the night in the death zone. Both climbers no. Neither option is great. I just have a bad feeling jer. Crevasses all over the place. We could walk off the edge and never even know it. If we dig in here. I think we might have a better chance. Okay maybe you're right. Marco helps chur une clip from the line. A few yards away and find a spot to sit down together. They start to dig out two holes seizure look one for us to sit in together to keep warm and one for us to put our feet in as great perfect. They both sink into the snow. It's quiet except for their breathing. What's that sudden lane. A sound pierces the air. It sounds like a rocket ship crashing into the earth. And then it's gone. It's quiet again. Juror in marco look at each other. Was that an avalanche. Maybe an icefall from the distance marco. Here's people yelling. It sounds like there's shouting from beneath the saranac. But marco can't tell and suddenly silence falls again germans a little and gestures as if he wants to get up. Marco tries to soothe him. No we have to stay here anything else. Right now is foolish. Marco sits up and looks around in the distance. There's a light. He points at it and turns to jer. See jesus look that's camp. It's not so far away. We'll get there in the morning. But marco wants to be comforted to he digs into a pocket of his own down suit and pulls out his satellite phone. His teammate can't four picks up awake. Listen to me you sleep and you die. Keep your hands and feet moving. Marco knows he's right but it's so hard he's been climbing for twenty four hours. His body is heavy and then there's the silence he's never wished more for the sound of a saturday night in rome the shouting the music. The people the quiet is enough to drive a man crazy. Jer you awake. He can see the irishman nodding off. He has to do something jer. you know. The song super lay montagnier ski though. It's a song called la monta nahra in italian tune. Marco's father taught him as a child. Con chair begins to home along the wall. Or that's it that's it but the rhythm of the song is to soothing. Marco sees jurors start the does off again jer. Stay up keep moving. Clap your hands and feet together. Don't stop keep clapping. Marco coaches jer like a preschool teacher. That's how they'll live through the night wilco. Von roy stumbles forward in the snow. He has no idea where he is. He's gotten turned around so many times for all he knows. He's on the other side of the mountain on his way to china instead of pakistan. Which means he'll probably be dead in an hour. He has to find the rope line. During the daylight it would be easy but in the darkness. Nothing about the landscape looks like he's ever seen before he can't believe this is happening. He planned the expedition down to every last detail. The dutch team was here early. There's some of the best climbers in the camp and the most prepared. Now all four members who made it to the top are separated. And who knows where pemba cass enter. His mind feels like it's unraveling. He wonders if he is hallucinating. It's the sound of someone singing. The tune echoes around him. Then he gets to his knees and inches forward and then he stands then twenty feet or fifty feet or two hundred. Who knows he finds junior. And marco huddled together in the snow in the brooding shadow of the mountain. It's a brief moment of grace jer. Marco i got turn around. You've been here the whole time. We can't find the ropes. They're nowhere is total shit. Well let's try again together. Maybe this time we can find them. We can split up not go too far staying. Communication marco is so tired but he knows wilco was right and they stay here much longer. Gerbil fall asleep. Come on jer up. You go then. The three climbers set off again. Wilco is obsessed. This mountain is not going to beat him. He's stronger than that. He just needs to dig in and keep looking. He finds himself at the edge of the ridge. He feels the emptiness below him. He leans over trying to see down below. Then here's marco yelling. Wilco this is suicide please stop. We have to stop for the night. Okay okay marco starts digging another set of holes in the snow or injure but wilco builds his own one hundred feet away. They only need to make it through the five hours. He thinks then the sun will come up. It's two am and jimmy boteh sits waiting for a signal from pemba sherpa. Jimmy has been hired as the sherpa for the korean team and he. It's his responsibility to make sure. The korean climbers make it down safely. Jimmy met the korean team when he acted as sherpa for them on everest. It was ms mizuko who convinced him to come to cato. He wasn't so sure but he and his wife are having a baby and the money will go a long way to their future. He never imagined he'd find himself year. Twenty thousand feet up in the dark trying to lead people to safety and then pemba sherpa went off to find the rope line. And now mr kim. The team leader and ms ago are both gone. They must have unclaimed from the rope and set off on their own what he can't leave the three other. Korean team climbers behind. He wishes he would have listened to his instincts. Ketu was too dangerous. Maybe the mountain doesn't want them here right now. He could be warm at home in nepal drinking tea with his wife. The smell of dinner on the stove. His mind begins drift off. When suddenly allowed frat pierces the air and a white wave of snow horse down. The mount jimmy is hurled off his feet and sweeps past the koreans down the mountain in a soon nami of ice and rock the next thing. He knows he's hanging tangle of ropes somewhere over the ledge. He can't feel his limbs when he looks up he sees two of the korean climbers dangling from the ropes and the rocks above him both are hanging from their legs upside down clamped in from their harnesses dramatic panics. This can't be happening. This isn't where he's meant to die. He's only thirty two years old. What about his parents. What about his wife. They will blame themselves for his death for letting him take these risks. He can't let that happen. He takes a deep breath. His whole body aches but for a moment his mind is calm. I am strong. I can hike down the mountain on my own but no he can't leave the other climbers. It's his duty to help them down to safety. He musket down to help them but as he struggles to free himself from the rope pain shoots through his legs. He realizes even if he is able to free himself. There's still no way he'll be able to stand much less walk. He goes limp tangled in the ropes. Like a mary annette. His only hope is that someone will make it back down to camp four and send up a rescue mission in the morning. he shivers. It's going to be a very cold night. This is the second episode of our three part series k. to savage mountain. If you like our show please give us a five star rating and review. Follow against the odds on apple podcasts. Amazon music the wondering app or wherever. You're listening right now. Join one replace in the wondering out to listen one week early. And add free. In the episode known you'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them by supporting them. You help us offer the show for free and a quick note about our scenes in most cases. We can't exactly know what was said but everything is based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about this event we highly recommend the book the summit triumph turn to tragedy on qe. Two's deadliest days by pat alfie and nba gil j sherpa and no way down by graham bully. We also recommend the documentary. The summit directed by nick ryan. I'm your host mike corey. Simon worrell wrote this episode. Our editor is more walls. Brian white is our associate producer. Our audio engineer. Sergio enriquez edit and sound design by joe. Richardson and original music by francesco. Butter la are executive producers. Are stephanie gents and marshal. Louis for wondering it's a case that has haunted. Jefferson township new jersey for more than thirty years on a snowy january night. fourteen year. Old tommy sullivan. Did the unthinkable murdered his mother in cold blood set fire to their house and then took his own life out of the flames of this horrible tragedy. Investigations revealed that tommy was himself part of a satanic cult sparking a nationwide hysteria now known as the satanic panic this monumental moment in american culture led to communities nationwide and forcing draconian measures to protect their children from what they perceived to be the devil's influence. Even the catholic church was convinced this was a case of demonic possession. On the new podcast. The devil within the truth of the grisly murder is finally revealed. Subscribe to the devil within on apple. Podcasts amazon music. Or wherever you listen to podcasts you can also binge the entire series right now early and add free when you join wondering plus in the wondering app.

Cecilia cecilia lars rolf Pemba Wilco ralph Hembo pemba sherpa Lars Mr kim Cecilia school cecilio Lars nessa mr kim alberto
The Trump-Kim summit: Walk on down

The Economist: Editor's Picks

04:55 min | 2 years ago

The Trump-Kim summit: Walk on down

"Leaders. The Trump Kim summit. Whoa. On down talks break down without a deal. It could be a lot worse. Oh that difficult second date when President Donald Trump. I met Kim Jong UN in Singapore in June last year that talks achieved very little except a change of mood that it wasn't enough for Mr. Trump to claim that he had prevented war in Asia. And North Korea was no longer nuclear threat on February twenty seventh and twenty eighth the two men met again in Hanoi in Vietnam this time, Mr. Trump was under pressure to win concrete concessions from Mr Kim. But the ended up walking away with nothing saying that he would rather do it right than do it fast. If you believed Mr. Trump's hyperbole after Singapore that will come as a bitter disappointment. But if the aim is to simply make the world a little bit safer, Mr. Trump's unorthodox sweeping approach to the nitty gritty business of arms control is not exactly a failure. Either. Walking away was at least better than giving way. Details of the summit was still emerging as we went to press. But in the press conference that followed the talks Mr. Trump said that Mr. came had demanded the lifting of sanctions in exchange for decommissioning the nuclear facility at Yongbyon. That would have been a terrible deal the north has other facilities, which produce weapons-grade uranium not to mention a stalk of warheads and missiles, Mr. Trump also made clear that the disagreement was amicable expects, mall talks and more progress. He went out of his way to praise Mr Kim and to underline the economic detention of North Korea if only it was prepared to surrender. It's awesome and rejoined the weld. It would be very Trumpian for the next over chore to the north to come soon after this latest rebuff. Most important the Hanoi summit retains the gains from Singapore. In the lead up to that. First summit the north was testing ballistic missiles capable of hitting most of America. Those tests have stopped as have its tests of the warheads themselves lowering tension and the risk of an advert escalation Mr. came gave his word that this will not change. And yet if denuclearization really is the aim the Gulf looks unbridgeable in Singapore when the two sides agreed to a nuclear-free Korean peninsula. They meant different things America expects the north to abandon its nuclear weapons in their entirety. The north insists that America withdrawal the nuclear umbrella that protects South Korea as well as pull out its troops from the peninsula far from disarming North Korea continues to build up. It's awesome much. To the rotation of Mr. Trump, America's intelligence agencies backed by his military commander in Asia. Have concluded that Mr Kim and his senior aides ultimately view nuclear weapons as critical to regime survival as if to rub that in a recent assessment from Stanford University reckoned that in the past year, Mr Kim may have produced enough weapons-grade material for five to seven new bombs taking his also to thirty seven. Meanwhile, Mr Kim has failed to take even rudimentary steps towards setting up an ago sheeting process that might eventually lead to large-scale disarmament in the lead up to the Hanoi summit. He snubbed Mike Pompeo the secretary of state and sulked about America's office. The north has refused to produce an inventory of its nuclear weapons laboratories test sites and of facilities until it does denuclearization cannot get underway. In analyst without a process to give the talks a momentum of their own the entire enterprise depends on the whim of two highly unpredictable men. Obduracy built on a misunderstanding is hardly a promising foundation for lasting and large scale disarmament. But it hasn't least resulted in a form of containment for the time being North Korea is living under a day facto test ban that stops it from perfecting its weapons or from using them to intimidate its neighbors. If you compare that with the achievements of Mr. Trump's predescessors, it is not too bad.

President Donald Trump Mr Kim North Korea America Singapore Hanoi summit Kim Jong UN Asia Hanoi South Korea Mr. analyst Obduracy Stanford University Yongbyon Vietnam Mike Pompeo commander
Fancy Bear is snuffling around corporate IoT devices. Machete takes its cuts at Venezuelan military targets. What Mr. Kim is buying. MegaCortex goes for automation. Vigilantes, misconfigurations, etc.

The CyberWire

20:43 min | 2 years ago

Fancy Bear is snuffling around corporate IoT devices. Machete takes its cuts at Venezuelan military targets. What Mr. Kim is buying. MegaCortex goes for automation. Vigilantes, misconfigurations, etc.

"Benny bear is back and maybe in your office printer el machete a cyber espionage group active at least since two two thousand fourteen is currently working against the venezuelan military a u._n. Report allegedly offers a look at what mr kim is doing with the money has hackers raked in mega. Get cortex ransomware shows growing automation another unsecured a._w._s. S. three bucket is found ebanks stores some pins in a log file vigilante anti smoking and when popping off becomes arguably criminal and now i'd like to share some words about our sponsor you're familiar with cloud security but what about security at the edge with the world's only intelligent edge edge platform optimized stops attacks at the edge before they reach your apps infrastructure and people their visibility into one hundred seventy eight billion tax is per day means that stays ahead of the latest threats including responding to zero day vulnerabilities with twenty four seven three sixty five security operations center support around the globe and over three hundred security experts in house optimize surrounds and protects your users wherever they are at the core in the cloud four at the edge if you're going to black hat u._s._a. This year visit at booth fifteen twenty two to take part in their crack. The code challenge akai intelligence intelligent security starts at the edge learn more at that's aka m. a. i. dot com slash security and we thank you my for sponsoring answering our show funding for this cyber wire podcast is made possible in part by extra hop providing hiding cyber analytics for the hybrid enterprise learn more about how extra help reveal x. enables network threat detection and response at extra hop dot com from the cyber wire studios at data tribe. I'm dave bittner with your cyber wire. Summary for tuesday august sixth two thousand nineteen microsoft reports that strontium siyam also known as fancy bear a._b._t. Twenty eight that is russia's g._r._u. Military intelligence service has undertaken a campaign to breach enterprise networks by exploiting poorly secured iot devices printers video decoders and voice over i._p. Phones redman says that in april it's researchers discovered evered infrastructure of unknown adversary communicating to several external devices once in the attackers would seek to pivot to more interesting targets at least least two of the corporate victims had left manufacturers default passwords on their devices. A third had failed to keep their software updated. The campaign's goal is unknown own is tracking recent activity by machete a cyber espionage threat actor working against venezuela's military as well as some targets in ecuador colombia and el salvador michetti was identified by kaspersky in two thousand fourteen and has since been tracked by silence while it's been mostly active against spanish speaking countries. It's also looked at targets and canada china. Germany south korea sweden ukraine the united kingdom and the united states states. There's no clear attribution and z._d. Net notes that it's unknown whether michetti is state directed or the work of freelancers. It typically gains entry three to its targets by fishing. What do you buy with your. Ill gotten cyber gains well. If you're mr kim may be a few implosion weapons some launch vehicles. You know whatever you can fit into your cart. Reuters says the yesterday it saw report on north korean cyber operations. The united nations security pretty council received last week. Young's extensive state operated cybercrime program has raised some two billion dollars since its inception. The report said the starting date of the cybercrime operations isn't stated in the fragments of the report that have been released but computing observes that the u._n. Significantly tightened sanctions on north korea in two thousand six the funds have been used to pay for pyongyang's weapons of mass destruction essentially its nuclear and ballistic missile programs foreign banks and crypto currencies are the principal targets there have been at least thirty five reported instances of d._p._r._k. Actors attacking financial institutions <music> crypto currency exchanges and mining activities designed to earn foreign currency. The report is said to conclude the security council is likely to consider further sanctions against north korea although there can't be much left to sanction in yet another case of a user failing to secure its data in the cloud up guard has found more than in six million email addresses in unsecured amazon s. three bucket belonging to the u._s. Democratic senatorial campaign committee the data were posted in twenty ten dan and appear from file names to have some connection with former senator hillary clinton's campaign. Perhaps <hes> do not contact list people who were associated with the campaign in say no the data were compiled by the s._e._c. and the d. s. c. c. notes with some justice that the information exposed consisted only of email mail addresses which is true enough. It could have been more damaging still. Almost any data can be valuable to some criminal or intelligence enterprise the d._s._c. z. says that the data are almost a decade old which is also true but another way of looking at the matter as up guard observes is that the data have been gurgling around in the cloud out for nine years now which is plenty of time for exploitation in some form. The black hat conference in las vegas is underway and the keynote at this cheers code. Namakonha event is being given by chris roberts chief security strategist a tivo networks. The title of his talk is a hackers perspective. Where do we go oh from here. Chris roberts joins us with a preview. I mean let's face it as an industry. You've got to look at the numbers we spending you know hundred twenty plus billion ryan dollars in this industry and <hes> we keep losing more and more data so i would argue that we're not exactly in that situation. We have failed the challenges that women went to protect. Its your sense that things are getting better or worse or are we treading water at best. I would say to treading water. I wouldn't say that we're getting better. I mean the innovation is fantastic. I mean don't get me wrong. We're actually doing some amazing amazing innovative things but we have a lot to do. We have a long. I mean you got over three thousand security vendors at their each. One of them unfortunately telling organizations that they can fix everything on. Let's be puffing on quite a a lot of them. Can't we spend the longtime chasing buzzwords. We have security conferences where fifty thousand people go but let's be honest. Half of them probably don't want to be there and the cost of attending little and the cost of putting a booth in one of those ridiculous is an industry where we're more focused on minting getting millionaires and billionaires than we are actually protecting data so you know it's a little frustrating suicide. I can sense your frustration and do you think you're airing on the side of being a little cynical i mean are there things to be optimistic about. I mean it depends on where you stand. I mean i mean let's be buffalo honest. If you are a consumer and you kissed watched your shopping experience. Go down the drain because somebody lost today to. You just watched a couple of banks. Lose your information. You're in the military. You lost lost the you know your credentials and all the intelligence there you go to hospital and they lose you data. No i wouldn't take really positive look at our industry you flip it around sounds and you look at our industry and what we are trying to do and maybe some of the movements that we're doing now we haven't she realized that we've got some challenges. We have to do things differently than maybe but i mean it's i wouldn't say it's too little too late but i would definitely say that we have a lot of growing up to do you as an industry and we need to do it a lot faster than than i think a lot of people wanted to believe and i think that's probably especially relevant from unlike the vendor supply-side less so the people that are in the trenches near the people on the blue team that are actually trying to protect us into doing as best they can so what do you suppose are the forces that could make that sort of change. Come into play. I think collaboration communication would be two of the big ones and then really taking a step back and looking at the humans and if we turn around and spend more time looking at the humans that we have you know they ought got to some degree how best assets and that's everybody from. You know the uses the we've blamed for everything maybe we turn around and try to educate them in how how to protect themselves more effectively at not do it in a punitive manner all the way through to the you know the board level directors and everybody else in. How do we educate in a in a way that they understand not in a way that would comfortable teaching. I think those are probably two very big ones and then a little bit of humble pie you know we need to go back to the businesses and so the areas of the business we've blamed and say hey. How do we solve this problem together. What are the the take homes. You want folks who see your presentation at blackadder going back to their leadership. What are the messages you want them to take home with them. I i think one of the probably the biggest ones is ask more questions. You know i mean if you think about it. Black hat and other conferences are ripe with offenders and supplies trying trying to tout their wares and i look at it t i look at the guys you know then tokyo about and arguably with those same reasons and to me. It's a case of the people that are coming to listen to the talk. I want to educate them. I want them to ask more questions when a vendor or a supplier says hey you know i can blind you with signs. I want won't somebody to actually hold their feet to the fire and say show me. Tell me though just explain it to me. Improve it to me how he you actually going to help me. How are you going can help reduce risk. I think that's part of it. I think the other part of it is really that warcry we've been having which somewhat is back to the basics which is focused on the human focus on the simple things things you know. It's the grunts stuff that we don't like doing. That's chris roberts from tivo networks. According to accenture mega cortex ransomware and somewhere shows signs of greater automation as its masters trade stealth for volume speed z._d. Net says the ransom demands exceed five million dollars. The extortion targets have for the most part been in europe and north america monzo. The british mobile only bank warned customers over the weekend that it had been restoring some encrypted pins in log files. Some of the banks engineers had access to the files but no need to know any pins. The bank has now deleted deleted. Any files improperly stored this way and has advised customers of additional steps. They can take to protect their accounts. None of the pin seemed to have been accessed by anyone outside of monzo nor have any of them turned up in any of the places one would expect they had leaked nonetheless. Monzo has advised its customers of additional actions. They could take to secure their accounts info security magazine points out in an aside one problem with such warnings and disclosures. They can be indistinguishable from and fish bait. It seems that many of them wound up in spam traps or were disregarded end dumped by cautious customers and now some smashing <hes> with a side of pudi pie. People in the u._s. Have been receiving texts with the following message. I'm here to warn the masses about s._m._s. Email gateways please. Please look up how to disable it on your phone or call your provider and ask the text is accompanied by some promotional barking in the interest of youtube celebrity pupae. Hi naked security calls him controversial which is one way of looking at the gaming commenter whose cultural presence defies easy explanation some of those suv noticed the texts have been troubled by the question of how the textures got the recipients phone numbers in the first place according to wired however they didn't they brute force them mm by writing a script to generate all possible mobile numbers from one to nine nine nine nine nine nine nine. The textures then associated these numbers with each u._s. Us area code from there. They sent the text to the email to s._m._s. Gateways used by carriers. That's about seven point. Two billion possible phone numbers wired tired identifies the spammers by their hacker names jaaser and ox giraffe a pair who last december hacked poorly secured printers and chrome casts to disseminate seminar a pro pudi pie message and inter alia lay some wisdom on the masses about these vulnerabilities. They appear to be doing the same kind of stick now. Oh so if you're in the masses and who isn't that's why you may have been getting those messages and finally the case in pennsylvania illustrates some of the legal dimensions mentions of cyber stalking a warminster pennsylvania man blair strauss has been sentenced to two and a half years federal prison for threatening his estranged wife and her family he did this online and the people he threatened weren't all in state. We'll give the prosecutor the last word u._s. Attorney william mix swain offered offer distinct explanation of why this was a crime quote. It's not an excuse to say. You were just mouthing off. If you threaten serious bodily injury or even death over over the internet that is a federal crime with consequences quote so a word to the wise control yourselves ladies and gentlemen at some point shooting eating your digital mouth off crosses the line into communicating a threat and now a message from our sponsor observe it great party <hes> yeah yeah great <hes> great party. It could be excuse me for just the moment hey you. What what are you doing. What no looks like another insider got into. You're systems when we weren't looking. I am going to be in so much trouble with the boss. Did someone say trouble. I bet i can help. Who are you to catch. Insider insider threats unique complete visibility into risky user activity here. I'll show you how it works. Wow now i can see what happened before or during and after the incident and i'll be able to investigate in minutes. It used to take me days to do this exactly now. If you'll excuse me i think there's a cocktail tale over there with my name on it but wait. What's your name. Oh well thanks observe it and whoever she is observant enabled security teams to detect risky user activity investigate incidents in minutes and effectively respond. Get your free trial at observant dot com slash cyber wire and pleased to be joined once again by craig williams. He's the head of talos outreach at cisco craig. It's always good to have you back. <hes> you and i talked previously about sea turtle and <hes> yukon got some updates to share with us before we get to that. Can you just give us a brief overview reminder. <hes> what is sea turtle sure sea turtle is one of two separate campaigns that that we believe are operated by different actors that we're seeing the middle east and north africa involving d._n._s. tomfoolery will call it basically actors hijacking d._n._s. to redirect victims to their site and the sea turtle campaign primarily. It's been reserved for strategic military targets at this point when we identified defied this actor and we worked with siberian suppler partners in the cyber threat alliance to get the word out there so that people could see the difference in the t t p's normally when you do something like that bad actors particularly those who are likely related to nation states tend to stop their activity right. They don't wanna be openly seen doing bad things unfortunately for us. The two actors did not stop. They continued with their mission. They basically changed their t. T p's a little bit they <music> added some additional infrastructure but overall they just continued to compromise sites and so it's usually brazen normally when you catch somebody red-handed. They'll stop particularly if other people have blamed other actors right. It's it's like a get out of jail free card but these actors didn't care you know like imagine if you're a bank bank robber and all of a sudden one of the witnesses miss identifies. Somebody else's the bank robber and the police get him criminals quit while you're ahead criminals. I'm i'm gonna stop this week and then tomorrow i'm gonna come back and completely different outfit and continue robbing banks if i want but you know they would probably stop not get caught. <hes> these actors have not stopped opt. They've changed their operations. A little bit we were able to identify some additional past activity with them <hes> and unfortunately they seem to be broadening the types of places that they target uh-huh so this is this is kind of we're worried about right i mean last time we talked about how there are primarily targeting basically military strategic targets so for the average user not that big of a concern now. It's is not expanded to much outside of that but has expanded to other government organizations energy companies things like think tanks international organizations and airports. It's a disturbing trend. I'm concerned that this activity will continue to broaden as they continue to be successful. One of the the more concerning things we've noticed in the past it is that for some of the very let's call them high value targets. The attackers were actually making new individual servers for each one new name servers with new i._p. Addresses so that it would be very difficult for to be noticed and for it to be identified. Unfortunately i guess they decided that that was not necessary anymore and so they started reusing infrastructure sure which is how we initially found them so it's looks even more like a system. That's been in place for a while. They're not only broadening their target set but they're optimizing their capabilities so what is available in terms of defense against this well. There's a lot of different ways to defend against it. You know i think the primary one is making sure that your registrars are secure making sure that your name servers are hardened simple. Things like multi factor authentication can be extremely useful. You know if you have very sensitive the main start looking at things like d._n._s. Sec try to validate look ups with their cursive revolver or something like <hes> open d._n._s. right. Make sure that everybody's seeing the the right domain for your site so there's lots of different things you can do. You can make sure that passwords are rotated particularly if you're something that nation states in the middle east north africa. May i want you know if you're a registrar hosting those type of domains are t._l._d.'s realize that you're a target right. I mean we're seeing secondary targets attacked and the united states and sweden so we make sure that everyone who's involved at these type of sites in these type basically potentially hosting this type of information realized that their target you know and you can do simple things to lose connecting to your v._p._n. Right where's it coming from so this is one to watch definitely i. I don't think these actors are going to go away until they have have a significant reason to you know from what we've seen. They've only continued to expand their operations and i expect we'll continue to see that going forward all right well craig williams. Thanks for joining joining us and that's the cyber wire thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible. Especially are supporting sponsor observed the leading insider threat management platform learn more at observant dot com. The cyber wire podcast is proudly produced produced in maryland out of the startup studios data tribe with their co building. The next generation of cybersecurity teams and technology are amazing cyber wire team stefan missouri to make a smith kelsey bond tim no dr joe kerrigan carol -tario nick valenki bennett mo- chris russell john patrick jennifer ivan. I been heater kilby and i'm david ner. Thanks for listening see you tomorrow.

chris roberts mr kim united states craig williams north africa tivo north korea sweden microsoft monzo canada Benny bear dave bittner redman russia m. a. kaspersky
COVID -19 Travel News: May 27

The World Nomads Podcast

21:09 min | 1 year ago

COVID -19 Travel News: May 27

"In this episode the filmmaker full time while on the trip of a lifetime and the countless three heat by covid nineteen while trying to rebuild after a deadly earthquake. Welcome to the war nomads podcast. We'll be keeping you up to date with travel alerts information about coronavirus answering some uplifting news views to inspire. You can't keep them smiling. Hi It's Kim and Phil with you and a reminded to get in touch with your story by a Mile Inc podcast at World Nahmad DOT com. The first what's happening in the world of trouble Phil Caribbean countries. Relying heavily on tourism places like Saint Lucia Thiga Aruba three signal and they've fighting pinup in June at the time recording that said in the future. I will have Lincoln. Show not some what to expect that. The governments of those countries weaking on safety measures like social distancing and hotel hygiene after then loan coronavirus lockdown in Italy paypal there Iran warning from the government is stop ignoring social distancing. Rules and party on Cabinet said it could mean. Plans to travel within regions could be revised. Don't be naughty people and in a similar announcement to Sicily. Recently the Japanese government is also creating a plan to boost tourism by offering to subsidize a portion of travelers expenses to go. This sounds like a great idea. If only we could get out of the house right now. Yes exactly now. The Himalayan Country Nepal hasn't escaped coronavirus fit with hundreds of cases were quoted and it's a real blog given they still recovering economically and socially from the twenty fifth. Seen quite good killed nine. Thousand People didn't like twenty two thousand engine or something. I mean I was the last year and you can still see a fix of the quite. Everyone says but with massive. We'll get to you being this short labor. Aaron Green has been based in Nepal for six years working with Himalayan trials at the trucking company based in Kathmandu and she has views on how the country will be affected and she also tells us has she just made it out. Well I ben in Thailand Alexei Ben in Australia until the end of January. And that's when things started started we started hearing a little bit about it and then I live in Katmandu and so as my way back to Kathmandu but stopped off in Bangkok in Thailand for a couple of weeks Before the tour season. I work in worrisome The season is March April. May and we're starting to people should cancel. People are starting to be worried so I was thinking. I don't even know if I should go back to Nepal the pulse. Not really great for disease. Control any kind of control But I went. I went back to Nepal and then ended up doing a track in March to write about it and To do some research for the travel company that I worked for And that was. I was little on the fence about doing that. It was it started April or March eleventh. A few countries were really closed down or closed down to Nepal anyway. But I went on the trek anyway but then the eighteenth that's when I got back to Nepal and everything was crazy That's pretty much. It was And I realized that Nepal was GONNA stop letting flights come in and out and then I was planning on going to Australia to my boyfriend in April but then I realized Australia was closing down It's it's orders to foreigners on the twentieth at nine PM. So that's that's where I was freaking out that I was going to get stuck in Nepal but you made it two straight and to your boyfriend I did. Yeah it was freaking and yeah and so. I arrived in Melbourne at eight forty five PM. Yeah fifteen minutes to go. Yeah then I know. Oh Smits Bay God what do you think then is the impact to not you think. I'm guessing that you dr the impact of travel on ordinary for the average Nepali person. It similar similar to. If you've been following that I mean people need want to go home. So if they were working as migrant workers in the villages they didn't have any food or anything so they needed to go home. So that's just what the printers and But the country itself is dependent on tourism. And so that's that's a big hit there. Was this big push for visit Nepal. Twenty twenty this year and it was Italy's banners put up in trying to make a and then maybe sort of mid Feb. They decided to cancel it. Some people heard that some people didn't but Yeah they're losing a ton of money from tourism. The the Nepalese government doesn't for itself they re they're reliant on foreign aid and they have been since the sixties and so therefore Nepal. Just doesn't do things for themselves more. Aids GONNA come in when it's allowed to and it's going to be a spiral. I don't see the Nepal. The government stepping up in changing. Anything it's going to be pretty sad and with healthcare as well. I scored a clinic. There in one woman was due to have a heart surgery And she had a heart attack and died because her surgery was canceled is is anyone doing. Anything I friends that are have go funny sites and I mean there's plenty of Nepalis as well. That are trying to do what they can. But it's as an overarching statement. The rich people are gonNA fend better than the poor people. So how long do you think the take for Nepal to recover and that share? I think they're going to be on. They're gonNA follow India and probably adapt some of their programs but to recover. I mean it's a pretty poor country anyway. We'll have to see. I guess when the when the when the doors open for tourism that's going to be a big a big health. Great that happened with. India's lockdown is a couple of things on the west coast of India. The turtles came back and laid millions of eggs that normally be too frightened to do because the beaches packed with people the pike the eggs and then in another area of India people have saying the Himalayas for the very first time. What positives do you think will come out of the travel ban for Napoleon? Tim's of pollution a tour. Is I think a lot. I mean I've seen pictures of Kathmandu itself in it. Looks like it's somebody put a filter on their a technical or filter. It's crazy All the colors that you can see because usually it's dust colored city so that's beautiful. My friend's also also telling me that people are still burning the trash. That's what people do plastics and everything else. That mentality isn't really changing but as for over tourism I hope people can can can think I think after the earthquake is well. People started looking at different different routes to travel different ways. Different places to trek communities started thinking a little bit positively about how they can get people to come to their to their trekking. Lodgers to their community generates income so. Hopefully people will start doing that again. We'll see and Phil. That's what the company Aaron Works for. Does they look for those less than iron spots to take the heat off the world trodden tricks. Which Napoleon's infamous for gear? We had inside that people from other countries could leave at the time. The bars was declared a pandemic Nepal has apparently refused to allow its own citizens to reenter. And that's harsh. Isn't it very said now you as you mentioned weight loss but he came back up with a new pronunciation risk. Get back ten in the last episode. Nepal what I was saying I came back. You Nepal that one Nepal talking about a week before he regretted but we all go to education on how it's supposed to be pronounced and this is as you mentioned vying. Guay into our next guest got now. He's from Tanzania and I come from Tasmania so getting the pronunciation of Tanzania mixed up with Tasmania. You even have to happens a lot now. I have tried to tell you that. I'm not the only one and you have learned. What evy is. The Pakistani cricket who finally made it into Tasmania November nineteen eighty eight after a mix up in travel plans changing to Tanzania ten exactly concept. He's travel agent confused. These strengthening state of Tasmania with the African nation of Tanzania cold that we should global campaign to rename it. Tanzania like that so I do need to be forgiven but I think I've tried my hardest here with Jessica to get it right well. Nymex Film Scholarship Energy Goggin. That trial has been forced to his hyme country because of yeah Before I came back to my home country of Tanzania was actually in South Africa in Cape Town. I was I was on a trip goal. Your best life. Maybe you've heard of it before but it's a Portuguese. Stop been was one of the lucky few who was elected to be part of this Six month journey entries around the world. All expenses paid and South Africa was country number three after Costa Rica in Baru and each of the countries have their they have a theme so Costa Rica was sort of You know setting your own personal goals for the six months defining what success means to you stuff like that and then. Baru was about Goose go on the Sacred Valley working with local communities and then South Africa was sort of meant to be the bucket list. Adventure traveled so it was like day four over hours in South Africa. We were doing sten- day road trip. Murray were meant to do shark cage diving with great white sharks. Scuba dive outs all sorts of stuff. The skydiving bungee jumping from the highest bridge in the world. And it was meant to be this whole like getting out of your comfort zone. Situation Travel for ten days and I was super excited about it. We were just about new bungee jumping the next day and I received a call from the organizers saying that You know the World Health Organization has issued a pandemic. We will have to return home so every participant seven of us at do go back door home countries and My parents are in India. Right now. So I had two options either to go and stay with them in India or to come back to my home country of Danica and does I just felt like the right thing to do inside so this is where I am now. We secretly happy that you didn't get to Bungee jump. Given the fact that the escape hot you know I was I was. I wasn't sure if I was going to do it but inside I was so ready I was so like okay. You know what this is. I finally got the mean of bucket was never one of those Whoever bucket list but it finally made sense like you know I was going to do something that I wouldn't have otherwise done and that would have. I would have come out a different person after that you know have explored my boundaries or event was really looking forward to it and it didn't happen game back quite disappointed and I was pretty sad. You know coming back alone. After having spent all these months with six other people from around the world from Nigeria Italy Albania South Africa. Us ended was something that really meant a lot. And you know coming back to a situation where now not anyone sort of isolated in on my own. It was pretty tough for for ten days. And then I sort of go back into the groove vendor cut some time to to mice films we probably some amazing stuff on instagram. Mushir linked to your INSTA- handle in China. It's and I follow it. And you stuff up. They were gone. He's that now because Tanzania is not in a strict. Look down is it. No the is not on lockdown at all in fact it's quite at business as usual and the president of the yesterday announced that he wants to continue is opened up the airspace as of today even the safety measures have been quite minimum masks and taps everything so you still go outside of my house like public transport people being crammed being that is we just sort of like the van rear end. It's it's the yeah. It's a whole different world compared to what I'm seeing on TV about other countries than I'm privileged enough to be able to stay indoors at night. Don't have job that requires me to go outside. Live Day to day like most people in this country. So I'm you know quite a bridged. It makes you really realise what the disparity of opportunity and was ability. Is You know in in the Steinbeck. Anomaly otherwise will you said when you went back to Tanzania that you didn't want to just fit back into a comfort zone. Say He didn't want to sink back into the ordinary. I think he's the way you put it so you decided to do something different as it relates to your fear of heights and climbing volcanoes. So you'll you'll still making content you one of these lucky people so that's from last year. I actually gained by. God's Duns near So. I didn't actually claim that volcano came back. Recently I've I've just had a lot of time now to finally catch up on the stories that have made before and actually mouse all of my followers in viewers. Pretty confused as to just like you is this right now is the time before but Yeah I'm not traveling at the moment but I am waiting for the dry season. It's raining a lot here. I'm just waiting to go to the Syrian gets. It's more dry because you know. Imagine the saying which is just hours from where I am right now from my hometown you imagine it most of the dime as golden yellow but right now it's quite the opposite very green and wet so I'm just waiting for it to be it's Color and go there to do film. The wildebeest grossing the groom at derain being eaten by doubts. That migration is famous isn't it? That's I mean I think it's synonymous to saying do you think of saying you think of the great migration and incredible seeing do points like? I think it's two point. Four million or more of these willoughby's just the endless and I was quite lucky to to to be on a balloons of actually do of them last year when I first came back and seeing them from from the balloon like up. I just couldn't see the end of you know even even if I'm high up in a balloon on the horizon is far out. I still couldn't see where the ended and it's just a magnificent well. Even though that video that you've posted was from last year we shared shines nights. Because it's it's incredible and is quite funny. He because you lost you go prior and the guys mess I that you are That you would climbing with. They weren't particularly supportive. My loved like yeah. You got some great for hours once a lifetime off. But it's gone. That's that's the kind of their attitude is pretty blunt about a man like you know there's nothing you can do about it. It's going we actually search for it for an hour and the volcano and the tricky part was the Gopro is is and square and all the rocks on the volcano on the forty five B being Were also the same color. So every literally searched for over an hour and it started getting really hot in the volcanoes surface and we even like slid a few times looking for it but it had disappeared and the guys were dislike man. There is no point in fantasizing fighting in our district. We've done everything began. Let's move on with it and I mean it's not a difficult response. You get within something. That really is truth. You know you can't sugarcoated you. Go to move on sometimes digit zoo to detach from these kind of things and that's a very important lesson. How Google just well that that's actually answered my next question because I did want to lay you down on a virtual couch and sit next to you and ask you how you feeling Jessica Yu us all on the guy and in in fact you go to bed like I'm speaking to you at one o'clock in the morning because you say you sleep because you've got so much that some buzzing through your imagination so you're obviously coping with it I K- exactly exactly and I i. I don't know there's something about this time of night where things are just so peaceful and you don't have a sense of dying with the sun moving and not the noise year especially in Tanzania with Really noisy outside and you know this time. It's very peaceful. I can really remember all the amazing experiences that have had in my life right them and I've found myself in sort of a very interesting situation. Where have you know since since coming back? I've finished one diary you know. I've been writing three pages every day. Been READING THIS BOOK. Gold The artist's way and it's a really really interesting book. It's a twelve week course in each week. Sort of gives you a different exercises to do to sort of getting Dutch with with your artists. That book says that each of US each of us has an art. Whatever it is and you know we've sort of neglected many of us throughout our lives through using doubts using fears and so. This book is sort of a recovery. Getting getting old those doubts and fears away and connecting. So yeah this is perfect time of the night to get into that. Now you have also your on company that we've spoken to you about before Lisa travel. Obviously that's been affected by the pandemic. Listen I mean with the model of. It is running workshops for fan filmmaking workshops kind of like the world nomads scholarship But now precisely because you know the restrictions Whole travel industry has been affected. I've also been affected. I'm not going to be having many clients for the foreseeable future. Maybe even for a whole year but I would argue. You know that you need to always have. There's always a minimum viable product. Maybe I'm not running my trips but I still have my online community where I can continue producing content producing marketing. Material designing the workshops designing the because eventually maybe not next month but maybe in a few months it's going to resume and so right now is is a good time to continue on aspects of it which. I think every business can can sort of work on that minimum viable product. And you don't have to shutdown completely very true so as we wrap up. Give us a mental image of way you are in Tanzania and what what looks like when you finally wake up Yeah I do wake up at a at random times sometimes early sometimes late but I'm really awesome place right now. It's the second largest freshwater lake in the world. School Lake Victoria. And it is overflowing right now because there's been a lot of so the shore or is it been receding and a lot of water coming on just just disastrous but it's It's a beautiful place that I mean because there's a lot of huge volcanic rocks all around me there copies. They're the kind of rocks that you might have seen on lion king or on in desiring getty so it's it's all around me. It's really beautiful. There's lot of hills so I often dig that. Maybe once or twice a week Hike a few of those scope in either beautiful view. That's the most interesting part of my weekend. Highlight but rest of the days is just filled with you. Know writing and reflecting eating really good food with my aunt and uncle in Maryland is an amazing Best Indian food. So I'm kind of gaining weight right now. Which was very much of my physical. So yeah seeing the positives year. While you're always saying the positives except for when you lose you go pro down. It's always such a pleasure to chat to you and pills of wisdom in there for people who might be feeling a little down at this time and as he said this silver linings every way. We just think to look for them. That's right yeah thanks game. It's always a pleasure being on this. Podcast is one of my favorites. Thank you G. Go with a heavy half Phil. We leave you with some sad news. Mr Kim who featured in fellow scholarship winner Marissa's World Nymex Tanzania's. Scholarship film has from Corona Vars theories then said look he found a mazing of fantastic watching them in that film the way they might affordable ceramic water fits of water filters and then a facilitating easy wife had traveled to night to them into those most a shame. Marissa's film in China's with watching and pay tribute to Mr Kim Berry said next episode continuing the theme of Phil Filmmaker Ernest. Wise at the seconds. Creator of fly brother by August royal boundaries.

Nepal Tanzania India Kathmandu Phil Filmmaker Ernest Italy Mr Kim Japanese government Aaron Green Jessica Yu Saint Lucia Thiga Aruba China Sicily Lincoln Cabinet Napoleon Melbourne Maryland Nymex
#749: Parasite / Pain and Glory / Contemporary Chinese #2 - The Midnight After

Filmspotting

1:17:46 hr | 1 year ago

#749: Parasite / Pain and Glory / Contemporary Chinese #2 - The Midnight After

"This episode of film spotting is brought to you by film spotting listeners including Carlos in Chamblee Georgia Peter are and a platinum level donor. Josh David in Pennington New Jersey senator check and he had in the memo field a whole nother donation makes it extra special David thank you so much scraggly lower class citizens live in the steerage section of that title train and tells them you suffer from the misplaced optimism of the doomed as we mentioned parasite also has class issues on its mind the movie opens on a struggling but scrappy South Korean family we've got out of work father play the midnight after comes to us from Hong Kong and it's another one that likes to mix all these different cinematic styles together it's a blend of science fiction history and comedy and probably seven other words that we could throw out came out in two thousand fourteen and was made in the wake of some major political protests in Hong Kong in the Director's latest parasite Bong again explores tensions between the haves and the have nots parasite won the palm door at this year's Cannes Film Festival and has earned some of the look what a process today the indelible Tilda Swinton Oh pierce notes just prior to coming into the studio and it turns out the host reviewed with the original co host on the show now our producer Sam the next in Bonn June hose two thousand thirteen film snow Piercer in that one. BUNK IMAGINED A high-speed trains circling a frozen globe it's passengers engaged in some violent class warfare he's cinema marathon all aboard it's film spotting long and here we are in two thousand nineteen protesters again on the streets of Hong Kong we will see how all of that does or doesn't influence our experience with the film but with Bong on occasion not reviewed here on the show but movie I definitely recommend two thousand three's memories of murder from Bongino his latest film parasite just made it to Chicago last weekend and we are going to talk about it here in a second but we do also want to mention that we're GonNa talk about the second film and our contemporary Chinese Cinema Marathon Fruit Chan's by song Kang Ho the star of a handful of other bond films and a mother played by Jang Hygiene as well as a brother and sister played by Choi Woo Shik and I our review of Bong Jun Ho's parasite I wanNA start Adam by jumping back to the aforementioned snow piercer in that bond film Tilda Swinton looks out at the best reviews of the year this week on the show we've got a review plus we forget the train and take the bus for two thousand fourteen the midnight after the second movie in our contemporary China Bunkum we saw and talked about mother with Mattie then you came in to talk about Snow Piercer so we're now into two films from bomb our first experience with the director's work which combined genre film making with social commentary and often comedy sometimes a little horror thrown in as well I was looking back Josh level the world pass them by if not drunkenly piss on their building they're not in the best neighborhood when the sun happens into a tutoring job welcome to film spotting we've been reviewing Bongino hose films here on the show since two thousand six his monster movie the host was six Oh damn there probably those characters in their teens or early twenties I would say now from their semi basement apartment the Kim family watches at St but we do have the creeping sensation Adam that the lower class Kim's might also be suffering from the misplaced optimism of the doomed with an obscenely rich family the Kim see an opportunity with a few white lies and some scheming they try to find ways each of them can be of service well no we were both on that show I can't remember either but OCA- I try not to think about very much not because I didn't necessarily like it it's just so disturbing yeah it really is and you do get that the class critique in Snow Piercer had all the subtlety of an axe fight appropriately parasite isn't quite that blunt but I don't think you could say it's subtle either hatchets the Parks Lee Sunken is Mr Park and show Yo Jong is the mrs now for a while things seem to be working for all parties involved are also involved at one point given all that Adam did you find that bonds new film had anything significantly different to say about class or is he highlighting income inequality just in a very different sort of setting here. Well I'm going to bow out of your question a little bit Josh because one I would need to rewatch from Chicago this is film spotting I'm Josh Larsen and I met him Nar long where we don't have a new film spotting host so I think that says something promising about our future yes we're committed I guess Ocho okay we both did where we both on that show at screening but to that question of the commentary about class as we said it's really been a part of all of his films all the ones that I've seen any way not just nope Piercer to probably truly thoughtfully address that question and I would need a little bit more time with parasite this is still processing review we just both from the Um what kind of a show you guys putting on here today we're not interested in looking conversation beginning of civilization I agree with you completely that this movie maybe seems to be a little bit more subtle than Snow Piercer definitely doesn't have the camp element thing to do with class and we did expect that but otherwise had no real idea even picking up all these comments these raves coming out of film festivals and that you get particularly with that Tilda swinton character but before we really get into how Bong Explores the issue of class here and really what makes him so all these tweets and letterbox comments about it we'd manage to not really have anything spoiled for us this movie was a surprise from start to finish for me but when you're seeing all these people that we really do trust and our tastes even align with just rave about this movie you go into it expecting transcendence not just smart and really ashland filmmaker just a general comment having just come out of it we both really didn't know anything about this movie we knew basically at minimum that it had some L. Mater entertaining it a little bit provocative no it's gotta be borderline sublime and despite those high expectations bog June absolutely nails it here at least for me there is a satirical element to this movie it's absolutely incisive when it comes to class distinctions it doesn't pull any punches about showing how loathsome almost everyone in the film can be we're going to be very not so much what he's trying to say but how he says it the new and inventive ways he's been able to tell what really is one of the oldest stories one of the oldest conflicts that goes back to the very when it starts the movie high was according to wasn't snow piercer but actually one of the best films of last year from here Kazu Coretta shoplifters because that's a movie that opens just like this in snow pair Suba going back to the host going back to mother there elements of it in memory of murder as well and I think the genius of Bong has always been movie does with a family fallen on hard times they're out of work they are skimming to survive and that's what we get here and then we remember or reminded party he also manages to make virtually all of those same loathsome people tragic or at least tragic in their own unique ways and they talk about team so perfect the score which I think is wonderful here sometimes light and sweeping very orchestral and then it gets progressively more haunting and unhinged just fairly quickly in this movie that this is wrong film and that he would sooner cut the heart out of the movie and show it to you that actually give you a lot of heart and thirty of the film does this to you it's a moment where you laugh out loud followed immediately by recoiling in horror and not horror movie horror Acre because we want all of you to have the same unspoiled experience we just did but then without resorting really to any sentimentality or convention here's the way through the movie and at this point I've already been swooning over the camera movement the composition the lighting the occasional use of slow motion that just classical Hollywood cinema the Lubitsch touch how about the bunk touch. I'm GonNa give you a moment without giving away any of the significant details that comes I think about three has the story does and then you get this moment the does three things all at once and every Bongino film manages to give you at least one moment like this or the totality I mean did you go through that same yeah sequence of thought and you know and you're you're hinted at this as well but part of that whole package you described is also the real genuine shock it's something terrible the just happened to someone and the crassness the absolute indecency on the part of the person who committed the act gene about how dark humanity can get but also as you were just describing uses humor not the way horror or dark comedy sometimes does about how he handles all these characters shoplifters definitely came to mind for me of course a Japanese family there and that here Kazu Kurita film but really in a very different time even though it's a couple of years later and so that bitterness that this movie is steeped in I do feel is appropriate and why it lighten things but to drive that point home kind of twist the knife I'm doesn't offer us release through funny moment but implicates us in the oil something but a recurring motif throughout this movie is that there are comments made here and there by either one of the park kids there's a t understanding of why the act took place yes and being on the side of the person who committed it a little bit just as much as your other end yeah exactly which gets to what you're saying did remind me in a Lotta ways of of Alanthea's film and you highlighted one moment that was so perfect let me bring up another one that I also think doesn't split daughter high school daughter we should say and then a young son about third grader so or even one of the parks Mr and Mrs where they reference a certain smell that Mr King this is a conflict that has been explored forever and all sorts of art the interesting thing for me compared to Snow Pearson particular is how much more bitter this humor's wall which is what happens in that sequence that you're talking about so yeah as far as the the class question for me as I was thinking about that you're right this is who has been in other films and his performance is always he manages to capture that same ability to mix tones that bonk's filled it gets repeated that they revisit and he comes this increasing source of shame for Mr Kim in particular and here is where I mentioned how song the filmmaker I kept thinking of here and has not occurred to me and other bond films was your ghost lengthy mouse this is tone tone but yeah her in this film again and again is the rich people the rich family never leading the help forget their place and they're not even doing it maliciously sticking her potentially smelly feet in his face and then him seen her act like he's offending her and so there are a lot of little touches like that throughout this film that I do just in his performance so it's no wonder they worked together a lot but here's where we see him as the scheming clown but also a very sad man when he headrest the front seat headrests so they're right by Mr Kim's face just incredibly rude no matter what your class status yes but he just sits in the seat and all while being an author of how it unfolded the cinematic dance of it the actual choreography of camera and actors and editing and the thing is I know you know exactly what the income inequality gap has only gotten bigger in the couple of years since no piercer came out so to revisit in a sense you're revisiting these questions research and here that allegiance I think that's part of it so there's an that has to do with one of the ways this movie is more subtle but also I think that bitterness is due to the fact that you know to smell you have in the subway and so Mr Kim is driving her it's just the two of them in the car her bare feet she's on the phone with someone else her bare feet are up on the when I'm talking about can I just ask does it involve a kick it done okay maybe benefits that you are two seats away from me and we had the same exact an awkward touch like oh the parks feel weird that they're boy pointed that out and the Kim's respond to it as oh we have to they're basically not they don't it's just their instinct that's just how they behave and so we get some moments and we realize these are out of context here but like the one where the father is auditioning yours that's his position as their driver but then he notices in the mirror that she starting to hold her knowns and rolls down her window and it's just that double insult of her maybe have made that connection there's a little bit of intimacy between them he touches her and she says you washed your hands and just completely then in that moment deflates everything and brings is working as their driver we should say Mrs Park in the back seat and she and her husband have discussed this and Mr Kim has overheard them discussing smell and they compared part of this kind of moment of of horror about this fear that could be lurking in their home and he's brought it to her attention and just when you think they realizes his status in society and this reference to the smell there's one moment and maybe the fourth time that comes up but misses park he I'm back to who he is and then I will not get into the circumstances of this line but at the end there's a key moment where just is really that shame is at its apex for me am has in particular but they also I think the little boy notices it on Mrs Kim as I did they smelled the same and this at first this is when this first happened it's kind of waiting for this this is the dark side of shoplifters it's could very well be your go slant film in the way it is unbelievable and that the boss in this case seems to be taken with his skills and and that he seems to be this veteran driver that he proclaims to be nevertheless as soon as that coffee spill Kim the husband reminds him that you're getting paid yes they're always reminding them that you're you're the hell you're getting paid for this and so just do what you're told never crosses the comes close doesn't quite define what the line is yes but I think it's exactly what you're talking about it's becoming too intimate in this pristine lawn that the parks have and then some trees behind very distinct from crowded dingy streets that we otherwise see this. Could this could be a contender now it's Mr Kim with the wife and what he's saying to her as a total fabrication but they are really they seem to be bonding in this moment there yes when the niceties are not working anymore that's when Mr Park will say remember you are again we own you he also says another point what he likes about Mr Kim as a driver is he for Mr Park he's driving the car the first time in Bonn just really neatly cuts to the coffee come a few times where you recognize that even though they're having a great conversation it's so metaphorical and really that that crosses the line bit is metaphorical in its own way because of course these are imaginary class lines and distinctions anyway and he talked about the lighting and maybe here we can mention the part house which is this amazing I want to piece of architecture there's an entire wall that's glass that looks out obsessed with native Americans and he's demanding for his birthday he wants to go camping and be in this TB and the way bond lights the TV itself with a flashlight looks like the kids flashlight it's watching this lightning storm and looking out on their lawn in their little son the parks little son has erected this teepee he's demanded are pointed yes and visually driven but also make you not quite sure whose side you're going to be on this unfold there's no doubt that something we see glowing in the yard and the rest of the house is dark and it's just emphasizing the ludicrousness of What they will go what the parks will go to the lengths they'll go likes them you're absolutely right just as long as he doesn't cross it can we just talk about maybe some images that don't give away perhaps but are you're going to remember from this film Utah The parasite to me is like shoplifters deranged brother no one speaks of and he's kept in the basement you're right that's what ours and that's pizza joint is elevating themselves is projecting themselves to the world to be some kind of gourmet restaurant that they really aren't and I think when you really break it down what you see is a little bit or if he takes a corner a little bit too rough he's probably not going to get the job despite what connection there making we see again more pointedly in a sequence not too long after that one on is it feels like to me it's acidic a little bit even though it also has a lot of humor to it because they think he's an agenda that you're on the side of one of the groups in snowpack everybody is doing that exact same thing nobody here really is who they say they are even down to the very beginning of the film when we meet the family and we see that the to give their son what they want yeah I think a lot there's as much blame on not just having the money but how you use it for sure film and particularly with the young here is the way the son who the rich couple calls Kevin the way he really becomes a screenwriter or if you will he becomes a playwright in a way that will upset the balance the class balance that everything and there's a line in the film to this kind of a funny joke tingler glass space the living room looking out onto that lawn is the proscenium it becomes the stage where this Cindy and the mother actually Mrs Kim calls out the girl from the Pizza Company when she says this is hurting our brand you know so even this this just mediocre pizza join vast formats and the way every single person I mean obviously they're kind of scamming this family right they are pretending to be something they aren't okay that's on one level but boy indulging him everything he wants so that tent is one image another image let's just say the the boy claims to have seen a ghost and a few years earlier and we putting together pizza boxes for some kind of two bit pizza joint and they're saying they didn't put them together well enough and they're gonNA dock some of their pay and they had this whole argument existence living off the these far wealthier people and what's so bad about that well here's where the title of the film comes into play for me see the moment where Mrs Kim is standing there smiling as they pull out of the garage and as the garage door closes we recognize as soon as that garage gets all going to play out? He's coaching his father on the tone of his rehearsing they are rehearsing just like they were actually rehearsing a play and then when you think about parasite is when there is there's no it's not really symbiotic right there's it's you're just taking yes and there are a few moments in this film at one point he's scripting the dialogue that each member of his family is going to have with the parks and he knows just because he has a good enough understanding of human nature he knows how this is all addict tragic comedy plays out and we get to witness it on that stage there's even an element of fantasy and performance in the rich couple we see later be completely unlike who they really are just like the poor people project themselves to be obviously richer so they really do just take on kind of each other's on where we see that the Kim's and treading lightly here have opportunities to not just I would go so far as to say there's a moment I love I think I can say things start to unravel when the parks leave for the weekend we'll just say that the parks leave at one point and in a in a really key kind of awkward moment but we see even for that family there's an element of fantasy and performance in their relationship and in that moment they project themselves else be damned even if and here's the key even if it's someone else who is in an equally exactly disadvantaged position it's sort of a flashback of his memory of that holy cow this is not a horror move no but that's GonNa go up there that image of scary and we'll we've who were father when he's he's thinking about maybe someone out let's say she says just focus on us and it becomes when you brought up that window because of course not a surprise if you've been a regular listener to the show the element of this movie for me that stood out the most was the element of pre as US yes and so it really looks at you know only looking out for yourself is a human flaw yes it's not necessarily a class think that bong complicates things by giving us a moment later where after a lot of bad stuff has gone down and some people have suffered let's say that she's the asked her face than the real Mrs Kim going to come out it's the curtain going down right it's the curtain going down as the garage goes down and that that amazing immaculate rex the most comes in the brilliance of the movie is being able to juggle all of that not making this just about hoping that the parks get what's coming to behavior we see as the movie goes on so the way we've been talking about it it may be sounds like it's pretty easy to side with the Kim who are just trying to put together this they all kind of do and they all kind of don't you know that's really the beauty of this film obviously sounds like we're both pretty positive about Bong Jun Ho's parasites and we don't often necessarily get into spoiler territory but there is at least one thing about the end of this film I did want to bring up and maybe and thank you to all of our listeners who donated whether you were one time donors or a monthly subscriber you really do keep us doing what we're doing want the parks to not give them as viewers we was going to undo the little we know at that point exactly but it does take from the pack harassed and it's interesting to me the daughter of the Kim's again played by Parx Odom has a line at one point she says I know it's coming we know we put the puzzle pieces together before the viewers and yet still seeing it happen yeah does Kinda take your breath away a little bit I'm really glad you brought up the true nature or at least when when she's faced with another moment like that she does reveal herself to be a little bit more benevolent but there's no doubt that I think the the asking myself the question over and over again do they deserve it do they deserve what may be coming to them does anybody in this film deserve what's coming to them and the answer is yeah it's from the balcony an upstairs bedroom where the same you go is watching out the window and asked the teen daughter so the son of the Qin he did top five movie houses this would be a contender for it 'cause it's plays a crucial role in in the plot as well but an image is when they're sitting right or anything as simple as that yet no I will point out though as you mentioned that line from the daughter that is a scene where she's highly inebriated and you wanted to bring up the climax it really you're you're probably going to say also takes place on that stage on the lawn absolutely right or even I think when we begin to see it Heidel parasite here takes on a little bit of irony perhaps and absolutely you're at first watching this film to go back to snow piercer thinking of the haves as the villains the things you want to touch on Josh so let's go ahead and stop the review proper if you have not seen parasite yet this is the point to stop the review and get out to the later as fast as you can if you have seen it and you want to get into a little bit of spoiler talk Josh Rogin begin that right now what do you want to play well go ahead you said one in the family to ask a question the suggests she's actually thinking about what happened to those people she's the first one in the family so at least it tells you that maybe that wasn't her anything has converged like what's so brilliant about that happening is everyone's motivations for what they do has been perfectly set up to that point where Mr Kim asked the parks teen daughter if he belongs out there on the lawn yet where this birthday impromptu birthday power that's it is taking place and this movie at some point you have to ask the question even before you really have any sense of what may or may not happen to them and you don't right I mean there's no you can't get the move takes you on its own right which is why even may be as specific as it sounds like we're being we're not really being at all but at some point pretty early in the film I was it's not even survivalist at that now it's more of like a parasite mentality is like we're going to do what we have to do to survive every the driver has been pushed beyond what what he is willing to do even if he's get we're not surprised by a single thing exact moment because it does come out of character her young at that point yeah you're absolutely right this isn't a spoiler part but I do want to say and I'm sorry I'm going to take a shot at your beloved joker but it really is just to highlight how much I love this film finally sets Mr Kim off is when at this point there's basically I'm just GONNA simplify it Mr Park needs a set of keys he puts his fingers to his nose to cover any pulls a face like he and looking across the lawn at him Mr Kim sees this and that's the trigger he's that are underneath a body that has been stabbed in his bleeding and he turns the body over and the smell of I'm assuming the blog or something and as we're talking about a certain class of people truly taking advantage of another group of people exploiting them taking everything that comes into play when we start to piece together the ongoing fascination the sun has with native Americans right Mr Kim have put on native American headdresses and they are going to fake that they're going to attack me the mom Mrs Park has staged this whole scenario she's now the director and she's choreographed scene where her husband and the driver I'm from them of course we think about the genocide of native Americans and in that moment where a performance is about to happen another performance it's like the last time he's going to have it put in his mind that he is a lower class person related to the smell and that's when he goes after the not really spoiling an early but it gets they're very horrifically logically and there's another touch going back to that the motif about the smell is what with us thus and not only is it a real attack someone has dwelling fever vengeful vehement dwelling other husband in this whole and the three family members who have to leave like cockroaches really they are in that moment they scurry out from under the table they get out the door and bond gives us this increased I'm GonNa say aw aw already and this was the the Cherry on top it's that moment where and we joked about the line things being so metaphorical tame isn't even a strong enough word for how hilarious and at the same time awful that is and that's that's bonk's genius right there so we just go bonkers oiler doc so I can get into it when they finally scurry out of that house before the big finale the violent finale when they finally get out of the house whole tied to Martin Scorsese's upcoming the Irishman then we turn from Korea to Hong Kong for the second film in our contemporary Chinese cinema marathon the night after that's what I mean about like it's logical it's motivated by characters in the movie this totally otherwise kind of irrational it's totally rational logic it really is all right parasite wrap up the review if you have seen the movie and you agree or disagree with our takes please do email us feedback film spotting dot net up next we have a new film spotty also stars along with Cecilia Roth and Josh not only are you still processing parasite but you've been a busy boy today right before parasite you caught up with pain and glory bizarre scenario and because of how he's been mistreated up to this point over the past twenty four to forty eight hours but bloody face a bloody face brings him up in red fin it's not science fiction at all and yet it takes that on just because of the the absolute scale of it then descending down into the subway it's another world and I really did love it so but it's the pulling them back that's the punctuation point just so he can get out of his mouth this question do you have a partner now which is you can up so that as the credits were rolling on pain and glory I pretty much raced to the next theater to start parasite great afternoon are amazing final I will just point one brief moment where he is talking to a former lover his character is talking the directors talking to a former lover hasn't seen in film festival where parasite won the Palm Door Bandera was the winner of the best actor prize. He's not the only Almodovar collaborator to appear in this one penelope Cruz full of such moments like that from Bandera I think you know this is quieter than a lot of the Almodovar films I've seen very introspective very room initiative but it still has the production design costume design and color scheme to keep you buoyant throughout it it has let's turn contender film so I'm happy to have had this chore before Me Probably Been a great place to start his performance is I think it's like thirty years something like that and he's listening to this man talk about the family he has had since and just the tears starting to come attendant in these brief scenes she has and yeah for someone who you know I'm I'm not the most enthuse visual schemes that he's devised and just another really touching story from her will you had me long before Meta but that clinched it can't wait to finally catch up with Glory Longtime Alydar Collaborator Antonio Banderas The star of that one in the film benders plays an aging filmmaker looking back on his life and at this year's Cannes assuming the role of the native America actually attacking the girl that's the moment where you really get the truly I mean devious it is currently out in limited release if you've seen it we'd love to hear your thoughts on the film do you admire Antonio Berra's performance as much as it sounds like Josh cost for you amidst this urine now rush of great films coming out really find a way to see it in a theater for some of these colors and some of these Discussion are either tyco tease Joe Rabbit or Robert Eggers the lighthouse both films opened in limited release this week and now Josh Hell is all he wants to know in this moment and might offer the healing from what he was just experience just a tiny little detail but the film is Lina Meta final shot that is absolutely gorgeous that I won't spoil so pain and glory if you know for some reason it's getting did next week on the show we are considering a review we are probably only gonna be able to get to one and the two movies that we think most warrant able series of about four or five shots as they descend are all going to the city just always going down metropolis like levels of going down into a city at all wonderful memory scenes of when the Bandera character is a child remembering his mother played by Penelope Cruz who is of course just transfer we're not expecting any miracles here just tell us if it or not really that's about all you're GonNa get I'm still processing while I'm still processing basically the the screenings line in his eyes and Bandera says is that he manages to then push back and tamp down a you know we're used to seeing actors bring up the tiers as a punctuation point that more accessible to us now I was afraid of this I knew the results would come out this way I did go to twitter about twenty four hours ago and I said hey you I'm GonNa let you I'm GonNa make you break the news to our listeners sometimes the practical concerns that drive our movie review choices I mean I hope he's listening it's lovely horrible I was listening to this who hasn't seen the movie because they can't even conceive how does it really make sense there later said it's gotta be the lighthouse I would have guessed that but not with those numbers yeah thought it'd be closer now it really was a slaughter so we have a tough we can only review one which one does it have to be something like twelve thirteen hundred votes in Josh and this was no contest sixty percent of listeners at least on I always about films that are about the art of filmmaking I can be a little skeptical about them Elmont over I think he's proven that he's going to do this in his own way go to phone spotting dot net slash events a quick plug for our sister podcasts the next picture show the host their Tasha Robinson Scott Tobias Keith Phipps and genevieve kiosque throughout his career this isn't the first time he's thought about what movies mean to him and he just managed to bring such a personal touch to it and has done it again include seeing and maybe you could see them in advance for free the movie Harriet About Harriet Tubman directed by Casey Lemon did eve's by you is opening on Friday November end Joe Rabbit and parasite and yet maybe I could make time on my couch for Dolemite is my name you also have other films coming out that are worth Santosh I don't need to slide joker stands up now in its own I had to so let's get to the moment at the end that really just had me so hopefully Tasha make up for that by praising the joker as it deserves new episodes of the next picture show they post every Tuesday at midnight you can find it wherever you get in case you missed it here's just a little bit of last week's massacre a taste if you will I'm talking about alcohol liquor the good stuff the release that a movie is getting how easy it's going to be to get to and it looks like the lighthouse may be only at the music box do I have that correct possibly okay not sure yet your podcasts and you can get more info at next picture show dot net massacre theater is the part of the show where we perform a scene from a movie and you get a chance at winning a film spotting t shirt off all right I've got some scotch single malt aged eighteen years the way I like it I and this coming Tuesday October twenty ninth is that advanced screening in Chicago we have passes to give away all you have to do is go to film spotting dot net and Click on events or decision to make we will talk about one of the movies on next week show I know that the only movie I may end up getting to have all three of them is the one I can watch on my couch that also has directed by Craig brewer or who made two films I love Hustle and flow and black snake Moan his new one dolemite is my name stars Eddie Murphy and it's also coming to net flix this weekend so don't let Netflix and an extra clue from Adam there as well so if you know what film we massacred e mail the movies title along with your name and location feedback films spotting dot net the deadline is mm-hmm now get off your ass I appreciate the pep talk there Josh now if you're in the Chicago area or another major city listening to this and you're thinking man the lighthouse is the great race fines with Tony Revelry in the Grand Budapest hotel and it's time for some poll results a couple of weeks back we were looking ahead to Robert Eggers the lighthouse and as Dr King Schultz and Django unchained Jennifer Lopez Ramona in this year's hustlers Greta Gerwig as brook in mistress America MMA Herschel of nineteenth century era lighthouse keeping the options we gave you were in addition to refines as monsieur Gustav H in the Grand Budapest Hotel christel volts Vicki part two of their the man who laughs pairing is now out they're going to be talking about yes the other movie with a great staircase sequence atom joker we asked You which complicated twenty tens movie mentor would you like to see in another film in the lighthouse it's Willem dafoe teaching rubber patents and the INS and outs that Perry met with Christopher Nolan's the dark knight now I haven't heard the joker half of this yet Tasha it was was Joe Joe Rabbit just slightly ahead of Lighthouse in terms of it being the movie we thought we were GonNA talk about next to pull back the curtain a little bit well I mean sometimes it does come down to this coming Monday the twenty eighth and the winner will be selected randomly from all the correct entries and announced on next week's show I wasn't bubbly enough was breathy enough who are you yeah we've got a look into that'll help us decide I think is just which theaters will have what and when we can get to them yeah so Gioja Rabbit seemed like it was going to get a wider release would be a little arken life aquatic I wanted to get to see more of the STOIC selfish bastard breakdown and show his compassionate sides all great moments Jeff here's Dylan Dom from Lincoln Nebraska Ramona only got two percent of the vote in this poll Greta Gerwig received seven percent as Brooke. Christoph Waltz is Dr King Schultz got twelve percent of the vote Jake while Gustav H is without question my favorite character and performance on this list there has never been an Oscar snub worse than Raytheon's not getting a nomination my vote actually went to Mahershala Ali Josh Josh how did it come out other came in last place with only one percent but this really surprises me everyone I thought was in love with Jennifer Lopez in hustlers but Mr Kim's own daughter but they don't know that at that point she brings the cake out fake to the boy is going to be a fake attack and what we get instead is a real attached zero Sir the new lobby boy zero you say yes sir well I've never heard of you never laid eyes on you who hired you Mister Mosier Sir Mr Moshe that is you're desperate to see more of in another movie there just isn't enough one in moonlight golden butcher in La says the correct answer here is Fletcher from whiplash come on he's one that character and his story I remember sitting in the theater watching moonlight not long before the Oscars that year and while I loved what he did in the film I act when he didn't appear in the second or third parts from moonlight and I also feel good about the winter I can't complain about Refines Monsieur Gustav h taking it with twenty five percent of the vote Jeff Milo in Ferndale big game I think that's smart Aaron Haueter says all love and respect to Peter Parker but I could watch terrance Fletcher destroy the America for hours and hours I never even actually voted for one and really I don't want to say it's a technicality because it's a great performance and deserves to be up there in contention with ray fines but he cinema's greatest characters and villains of the twenty tens J. K. Simmons gives one of my favorite performance of the decade maybe of all time also Fleischer would be able to kick anyone else's asset Johnson's Peter B Parker received fourteen percent J. K. Simmons as terrence Fletcher received nineteen percent and my vote came in second place so I feel good about that one again says I know that one is the right answer but I have to go with Monsieur Gustav H This question allows me to say out loud the because of the ways eccentricities and flaws and pride Jackson is one while I love Gustav and everything else about Grand Budapest I felt satisfied with what we got from him and his character in that film whereas with one and Moonlight I felt as though there was so much more to explore with oppose with the underuse yet still existent muscles of empathy that he does have his apology seen what a bloody idiot I am pathetic fool God damn selfish bastard I was left wanting and expecting more from a performance that was so revered so if one were to appear in another film I'd be the first one in line to see it so you touched on that a little bit because we both it's potentially the second most moving moment for me a wes Anderson Film and I'm sure I just did that just just behind Jeff says this sparkplug adoption royal tenenbaums and the sighting of the Jaguar is going to have to I think she does have my back on joker but she's going to have to make up for all of the sliding of the dark knight she did that way so it's a tradeoff with Tasha that was rough Lee as one in moonlight jig Johnson has Peter B Parker in spider man into the spider verse or J. K. Simmons as terrence Fletcher in whipple. You don't want too much of such a great antagonised it'll ruin his mystique in his power to scare the hell out of you good take here's Elbert Mela front turns Fletcher would be my answer for the this is the only thing I wanna say is no way do I wanna see more of Terence Fletcher from whiplash now because I don't like the character that because it would ruin his power he's like Jaws Hannibal or the joker and t-shirts left due in part of how many as Brooker self might exclaim so many exactly Henrik torstar from Stockholm Sweden wrote in I would love to see Tony Dark again you know the guy from Ironman avengers Spiderman and Captain America that would be something okay getting a little snarky moment of silence there for our friend the one character may be of all the options where you definitely feel like you don't get enough from and so if that's the question if you're really thinking about the character that on this list yeah I want their criteria I forget you know what I'm taking one I'm taking one against has instructor who talks that question but instead we're looking ahead to score says he's the Irishman which opens in theaters November first before showing up on Netflix at the end of the month it's pretty is not our superhero movies cinema as tempting as that is really I now feel bad I feel bad for our producer Sam that he didn't have the guts to a sequel or dare I say a series about Fletcher but just the very idea of it gets me excited thanks for putting that never to be fulfilled desire in my head fellow so we go from Tony Stark and what a great transition into this week's poll question as we're talking about the our new poll question concerns marvel's greatest super villain Martin Scorsese really is good. You need to catch up with that movie Josh I it's a legit golden brick contender this year Brady Larson writes in Brook from Mr America's still has a lot of lessons and ideas for restaurants mm-hmm Fletcher's come up to dizzy become a softy over the course of the series do we get some heart out of its case it does doesn't it Christopher Jones your favourite not the best we are asking your favorite now Sam as he is wont to do in these questions he's not just given you may be the most obvious choices he also has well it's kind of absurd we haven't asked this before but we don't think we have in almost fifteen years of the show which Martin Scorsese Film as well so do you have an easy choice here it's not easy of course because Sam as he did put it in the newsletter today he went back to that old films are there Martin Scorsese choices so one per decade essentially yeah taxi driver raging bull goodfellas the departed choices provided but I have to go with other on this one perhaps it's because I watched it three times in the last week but Sensi from the art of Self Defense is the mentor character I'd most wanted to see more on would've assist them and it just so happens that those fit together pretty well those two ideas Josh they have five to pick from plus other what adding reliable which was you're not just picking your favorite and just tossing it out there your vote means all the other options are going in the incinerator it just when you think when we're out of this right like we're enough of the discourse about Scott says he ripping on the marvel movies I'm convinced that Marvel's actually behind all of this got it all mapped out for the next ten years you know that they do this is in thrall even fascinating okay we're gonNA stick whisker says he and not my big conspiracy theory our new poll question Wall Street or you could go after you now we recognize that there are other films other great films that Martin Scorsese is made but I like Sam's approach here because choices and your reasoning we will point out that in early voting because film spotting newsletter recipients already had a chance to vote and way in we've seen a fair amount right literally every other Martin Scorsese film will be lost to time forever and when you think about it in those terms my vote goes from probably I raging chievements I'd probably point to raging bull okay but in terms of the movie I can't live without a need to have the option of revisiting at least once a year for the end of time it's good felt he's done so many Bob movies in so many of them so well that it almost seems like that is one of those needs to be the last remaining Scorsese all which I do love and if I'm having that sort of meaningless not substantive at all film conversation and I have to answer the question what is his best at they have to be dominating film discourse because we just get past score says he's saying that they're not cinema the films are incentive on and now what are we get the and I'd be happy if that was the representative film to okay we hope you will vote now at film spotting dot net the poll is right there on the main page and if you leave a comment we hope you do please complaints about the choices there are people who aren't as big of fans of the departed or the wolf of Wall Street. I Know Josh you're all on board with bringing out the dead uh-huh Allesandro Nevada does some incredible work pulling off this absurd character delivering a hilarious deadpan and maintaining intense and intimidating presence in every scene he Kabila comes along and says you know what he didn't go far enough they're not just not cinema their despicable so it's just another villain who's GonNa come along too tough Coppola I can't wait to hear there's some of these films to yes because they're paying us they always know that the next villain has to top the one before and even when they don't have a movie out it's a little bit more in parasite I was a little adrift I'll admit with the midnight after which is part of the point of some of these more regional marathons where we're watching film together we're going to start see you need weather from the trailer for the new film from Pedro Almodovar Painted Eighteens the midnight after directed by fruit Chan it's the second film in our contemporary Chinese Cinema Marathon last week we review John Wins let the bullets fly it covers at least the three that had to be no questions and this is a good representation taxi driver raging bull and goodfellas but how many filmmakers honestly could boast I know you disagree with me here above the wolf of Wall Street but I think I have a greater appreciation for raging bull okay so I'm GonNa vote raging bull yeah I can't argue with you there I love both films we can't wait to hear your comes from cultures whether it's our Nordic cinema marathon or our contemporary Korean autour marathoner this one these might be cultures were not as familiar with which means as we know going into it there are references were not necessarily going to catch and there are dots we might not be able to connect I felt like I had more of those than in films as you are shocking raging bull and goodfellas just watched goodfellas again and I what I like about that is I feel like it represents so is that how you distinguish best from favor I guess so at least for the purposes of this poll yeah well 'cause I yeah I usually don't spend a lotta time trying to parse those two ideas but I'm down to the same in which we both enjoyed quite a bit we thought it was a good start to the marathon had a lot of fun going on in that film a lot of good ideas to discuss the minute after yeah I only say that because I have a familiarity with some of Bach's other films and the setting of that story I could get my bearings is a lot there's a just a plane a lot yeah you thought that parasite was bonkers I think that was your word movie makes parasite looked quaint it does and maybe let's have no more talk of jokers descent into the streets of New York City down those stairs because Bong Jun hove totally does Todd Phillips in this film in that moment I guess and many of the other films we've done so it's really hard to you know give a review of film that way when you know that some of the things that aren't connecting are more on you than on the filmmaker we strongly but could post five masterpieces over five different decades. Yeah that's pretty incredible you may have another one that's what I was just GonNa say with word on the Irishman being incredibly strong are but thankfully we are getting some help when he's trying to process yeah we have some Harem listeners who no no these films and the culture itself the my probably understand it may not fit into the scheme with that I think I like it more than most people it's sort of a really interesting taxi driver I mean for me sure looking at those two in tandem but it looks like Goodfellas is in the lead at this point where some they're voting for good not only for good files it it does make sense to me let us know where you're listening from the guy down into phony go went for some McGrady Vandana I'm good my anti that's from the trailer for Twenty bogen longer I always say hey I got more to watch a lot better than we do so Sean Gilman seattle-based critic longtime listener friend of the show he's been creating the marathon for us and sent us some liner notes we could see yeah he did and maybe it will shed some light for you josh as we do try to frame this conversation because to pull back the curtain again for a second you did say in our slack channel after watching this movie that for me Chan's inventiveness earns him some space to make the case that his incoherence is the medically relevant and intentional are you buying but I guess if you're not breathing that cultural air it it can not quite have as much resonance but I do understand what they're saying is that the incoherent still twenty years after it all but collapsed following the handover can push the boundaries of popular cinema in unexpected directions and I'm going to give you one more listener comment to latch onto various yeah when they mentioned SARS when they mentioned Fukushima when they mentioned the threat of North Korea I mean you see that these are all things that must have been in the cultural air in some of the great films of the post handover period so sean gets a lot to consider their some great background and I think he offers what both Sean and especially Erin they're selling oh yeah I mean like I said at the beginning a not at all trying to imply that this doesn't make any sense either it actively resists the idea that explanations are even possible an adaptation of an unfinished serialized web novel by an entity known only as pizza it's about a group of people we do have Aaron teach men along time listener who loves this film and defended it in great detail in an email to us and also on twitter and Josh he said this really provocative question to in some of his other comments he says he thinks it's an essential part of this marathon if only to demonstrate the ways in which Hong Kong filmmakers literally I think in now is this true almost eight years of doing the show is that possible didn't you join the show. In Two thousand twelve twenty two remixing horror and gangster genre tropes with real portrayals of Hong Kong's poorest people chance late nineties early two thousands films especially made in Hong Kong and the longest summer remain I'm trying to apply that I didn't catch a lot of what it was going after they're saying sense no no but there are there are points they're trying to their things explains what it feels like to be alive in the latter half of the twentieth tens better than this this director fruit chan returned to feature filmmaking after many years mostly making short films he's best known for there are some gaps but some of the things that you know I did absolutely enjoy about it I think especially in the beginning I love this concept and when the on a late night minibus who travel through a tunnel and find themselves apparently maybe as the last people on Earth their search for explanation Leeza through a variety of adventures that ultimately lead nowhere not this one I don't know you're going to have to carry this you've never said that and yet you felt that way at least that was you're Glib initial reaction just moving which I put up there I think as the credits were rolling said net sense of dislocation is part of the point so pointlessness is part of the point I was responding to Sean on twitter we were talking about this a little bit I said something to the effect a year I can get that and then once you understand that you're left with how that pointlessness contextualized which may be aware there but yeah this was a head spinner it definitely is Sean says I don't know if the midnight after makes sense outside of the specific context of Hong Kong in twenty fourteen it's a film that not only resists explanation series of highly independent and low budget features he made in the immediate wake of the nineteen ninety seven handover when Hong Kong was transferred from British control to mainland China free the buildings in just the right way to give you that sense of dislocation that I thought was really effective and of course the the current you know protest the characters on this bus I think it's almost so populated you do find it difficult to keep track of who storyline set in Hong Kong and for the next twenty minutes you don't see a soul on any of these streets in any of these buildings it's just very eerie and for Chan frames turn has set off this huge debate involving sports and the NBA's involvement in China so that's in the back of my mind too so yeah there's there's a lot going on here come out of that tunnel yes and everything I mean even what I do know about Hong Kong or at least what the things that I have seen of it whether it's national geographic artist eighteen how there's just a ton in this film there is that's definitely accurate and it's funny too because I did watch this film all in one sitting albeit maybe with one on the midnight after I'm going to say I felt as drift for some of the laboon welfare okay that we discussed in terms of the Spanish politics the intricacies of Spanish politics went into the movie having that on the brain and then I get a text message from our friend Nathaniel who brings up its incoherence as well and I've just watched twenty come out and they're the only people alive it seems it did seem like it was going to be a movie that played out maybe like a fairly conventional thriller a sci-fi Thriller and it was in Hong Kong were on my mind right away as you get hints of sort of the politics when there are those references to the vote and things like that my sadly Lee wants to defy deciphering and not just to be Koi not just to mess with the audience but to make some kind of statement and a coherent way I really thought that we were going to see a lot of the breadcrumbs the clues that are dropped for us I thought they were all going to play out and prove to be intermingling the comic with the horrific as their society in miniature completely breaks down anytime they try to create some kind of order irrationality Sean says for me at least nothing break in the point I stopped the movie actually was about the twenty five minute mark and you had already chimed in and said you're kind of mystified by the movie and political systems as well that when something goes horribly wrong we see in these seventeen people on the bus we see the way that they over the course of the film every character kind of looking for those answers and the movie does as I said give a series of clues that I thought was going to lead us onto a path of enlightenment partly seek the most convenient explanation and they searched for meaning in it which does seem to be what any of US would do in that scenario so right away they the crucial to understanding this film that actually there would be some way to understand this film and I'm thinking to myself what are Josh Nathaniel talking about if you just watch the first twenty five minutes I think you would have that same reaction I take it no one had started inexplicably melting yet no there was no there was no melting yet and actually the moment where it totally on board with it and I was fully expecting to see everything just unravel in a very interesting and honestly go to a very spiritual place it's something to do with God and maybe in fact it's about their own mortality maybe they're dead maybe that's the explanation and then we get another type minutes where this thing really couldn't seem tighter I mean it's it's existential speed that's what it is it's the movie speed but on a grander scale and flavor when you're talking about the human nature element and after one of the members has committed an awful act the others set up an instant tribunal Hiya a little bit in terms of not even trying to figure it out but just keeping up with the movie is it does get uglier these people get Uglier GonNa make a lot of sense and really does it go completely off the rails from there and I definitely feel like it's a movie will agree on this it deliberate urgel explanation the woman who I love the fact that they call her the sorceress because she just starts spouting all this Mumbo jumbo she looks for answers to the cosmos is if anything almost over directed although it does also have some really stylish sequences to it there's there's even embedded in this little like twelve minute morality and ugly as as it goes on and that that tribunal set up after they discover a rape which is pretty brutal really hard to reach and like my window into that right now is all of this talk with the NBA and its business in China and a general manager in once we in support of Hong Kong protests those are other movies is intensely densely-populated business in in this this small society and you come out of a tunnel in a movie movies this week on the show but early on they encountered the junkie on the bus the guy who gets on clearly in a drug induced haze and blaming Korea and there's lines about Korea blaming Hong Kong for stealing their culture in Japan gets involved and then they blame China and then there's the and then this is where I get really interesting and complicated and nonsensical in a way as well in terms of the politics the international politics they start I started to go a little bit crazy was when that first masked figure shows up that was the point I shut it off so I kind of had okay things are about to get it ends up being play on words or Josh it ends up being a red herring and not just a few red herrings the whole movie is a series of red herrings and that's assign blame and we see that throughout the entire film and this is where they're going to be some parallels back to parasite a little bit too among others including we're talking about yeah it's really ugly and I did not hook myself on I think there are two characters who we are supposed to care for possibly more than the other me as things got really nasty to carry me through those portions yes now where maybe that star chamber sequence where they all play judge and weird that everything up until had already kind of gotten sick Glen Yeah but other than the general weirdness of the whole concept and the fact that they go through a tunnel and and he's the first guy they all want to get rid of and they blame for this going wrong somehow just this this lower on the totem pole member of society must have caused them some kind of who films this week that both involve scenes where characters decipher something in Morse code was the last time you saw any movie talked about Morse Code and we're talking about two sons she did commit the rape and it does pose a question that we have to wrestle with which is he certainly deserves to be punished but is what he gets in fact justice sequence you talked about the rape sequence where they blame the criminals they blame the two among them they decide who are criminals and then it almost becomes something like out of the crucible depicted multiple times from second week in a row with I know we didn't get into that with let the

Josh David Hong Kong Sam producer Mr Kim Tilda Swinton Terence Fletcher Chamblee Bonn Carlos Georgia Pennington New Jersey Cannes Peter Almodovar Chicago senator Director Bongino Goodfellas
Mt. GOX: Investigating the Facts

CRYPTO 101

29:52 min | 2 years ago

Mt. GOX: Investigating the Facts

"It you'll yogurt won the consumer's guide to cryptocurrency. This is Matthew Aaron and this is part two of the Gok saga in a first part. We had Mr. Brock Pierce to talk about his plan to revive mount gags in the episode called Cox rising. Brag feels that mount guts is a stain on the crypto space. Also, he wants to compensate the victims of Mt. Cox hack and make sure all the money gets returned to them. However, there's a lot of critics in the crypto space says that his focus on. Mt. Cox in his ambitions to revive it or a little less than genuine one of those people who have been investigating. Mt. Gog since the beginning since the hack two thousand fourteen is Mr Kim Nilsson, Kim was accustomed Vermont gods and ever since the heck has painstakingly kept up with all of the information, rope, blogs and kept us all inform Kim's on the show today to talk about some of the things that was said on the Brock Pierce episode. Tell us the story from a fact based perspective and also touch on. Some of the claims of ownership of monks. But before we get the conversation wherever you're listening to this podcast and make sure subscribed leaves a rating and commented helps us stay visible. Also think about becoming a patron patriots. Thank you very much for supporting the show over the past nineteen months. Also, a special. Thank you to keeps for sponsoring this episode. And like always this is not financial advice. Trading advice, legal advice or personal vice now without further ado, part two of the gawk saga was after the show. Kim Nosan investigator of the mount story and former mount got customer. Welcome to crypto one, sir. Thank you. Nice to be here. Kim before we go into the monk story in the years of research that you have conducted about the losses. The revival and the different players positions in this story. Let's learn a little bit about yourself. I'm basically, a normal soccer engineer, I live in Japan. Now moved here ten years ago, I code by day and couple of years ago. I developed a hobby of Montauk say Mr. Gatien tricks, basically as you started out saying, I was a customer amount gawks when Montauk spent down lost money. There got really really annoyed and figured that. You know, what I don't think the police necessarily going to be able to solve this out of the government's going to be able to help we might need to see what we can do. I knew roughly what bitcoin was about. On new Hyde worked on here that everything's on the blockchain in the public ledger figured like you, we might be able to actually have a look at this and see we can investigate it from the outside instead of needing police for help. So I basically started doing that got together with some friends at the Jain and had a wack at basically trying to look at the blockchain. See if I could find what had happened on gawks where there Nicole being stolen getting in touch with other people involved in the case trying to get access to more data more information tried to slowly puzzle this together into figuring out what had happened, basically. And that was the story that ended up taking years. Wow. I I wanna say the persistence of following a story for so many years like Mt. Cox is impressive. It takes dedication and commitment. How much bitcoin did you lose on the exchange just out of curiosity? Not a lot of bitcoin leg less than a dozen. It was a it was a much at the time to me. I was I was never been a big investor of Inish art I had some to play around with. It was worth a decent amount of money. So I was really annoyed, but you know, it wasn't the amount of money that you destroy your life over. So I was annoyed. That's why I kept going. And I'm very now. Talking to the persistence, what led you to persist to keep writing long length articles and blogs in digging into the research for so many years, and I'm asking this question because most people would just say I'm done after a year or two or maybe they would hit a brick wall. And they would say it's too hard. But you kept going why? Yeah. I mean, I won't lie. There were times where I hit hit those walls to places where I Gotcha point where I felt that what's the next step? Really? I've felt like I could make progress. And then every time something would happen to our. We get some new piece of data or I would look at it. Look at it from some new angle and make a little bit more progress on sort of keep me motivated to keep going. I think it helped it's such a large case up normally. It's not something single person could investigate. I think it's too much data really in my case. I think it worked out to my advantage because it means that if I grew tired or looking at one angle all research and look at something else for awhile, basically kept me going for say about three years absolved investigation listener at the beginning listener at mount Guckes losing money. Well, they didn't just lose money once they lost money. Many times overtime. Can you tell us about that? Yes. That that's a fair. But there were there were multiple incidents where Manca lost money the big one that lost them. The the bulk of the money happened spread out over time which was somewhat surprising for people to find out. And that you would normally think this puzzle because exchanges are supposed to keep a close eye on their bitcoin storage, which apparently didn't happen Mogok that was pricing. A lot of people. Can you tell us that story which you found in your best Gatien was it marks irresponsibility as the owner of? Mt. Cox at the time that led to the massive hack or the safety off of. Thousands of thousands of bitcoin and for my episode with Brock peers Brock said that Mark was literally baking instead of being responsible and observing what was happening in the operations of his exchange. Can you comment on that? I don't know if there's a simple signal answered among a very complicated case, but. Like, I mentioned earlier the big thing that I find was of course, are being stolen out over a long period of time that implies that they couldn't have been watching and that raises obvious questions. Like, okay, why wasn't Mark watching it them? My research is about data numbers. I don't try to get into people's heads. Because I can't know what anyone was thinking. I've heard rumors that Mark was busy with other stuff were spreading himself too thin and at the same time not allowing other people to look at the numbers if that's true. Yeah. That certainly sounds like it was very irresponsible. I have said in some of my summaries in my presentation on this. I consider monk ox to be originally failure of being hacked. But it was made ninety two worse by not having a proper response detection of and I think that's still today. So of course, you'd wanna speculate of what was going on in somebody's head. But what do the numbers say, what do the numbers tell you about where the Queen was being siphoned off to in house being siphoned off? I've tracked a number of different incidents. Of different values and different members at different times. The biggest one of it over six hundred about six hundred thirty thousand bitcoins. I was slowly stolen out of the hot Wallich and went to eventually went through a network of all its own by this this Russian guy that's in in prison in Greece right now. That's the bulk of the theft the roles other incidents. Some of them happened really early before markup even took over the exchange that so they happened under dead Mikhailov. Instead some of them happened during the transition bid, there's smaller thefts. There were some bugs that destroyed two doesn't Bitcoin's things like that lots of different incidents that all contributed to in total over eight hundred fifty thousand bitcoins missing or lost or destroyed or stolen. You brought a couple people dedicated and arrest guy, can you please all the people that were involved in the mount Goksel saga. All that's a that's a toll order monks, originally founded and became sort of a bit Greenwich in two thousand and ten by jet Michaela. Job by late two dozen Ted too late to Ted jed had decided that he wanted to get rid of the exchange and have someone else operated. So he could move onto other things he asked around one of the people he communicated with negotiated with for a handover was Marcus who's running Japanese company and had I think he had done some minor consulting work as well for monks. They drove an agreement Ed eventually handed over which was basically the entire company in exchange for six months of profit sharing ever since then around spring of two thousand eleven it was run by our carpenters. Mark had started off rough with some more incidents lost bitcoin. There was a big hack in June of two thousand eleven which was due to old passwords being compromised because they restored whether we cash then around September two thousand eleven this Russian hack starts happening that leaks bitcoin out slowly around late two thousand twelve or early. Two thousand thirteen monks is more or less running on the bitcoin front. They're getting by on daily transfers because people keep depositing money and enough to cover people everyone wants to resort money, but it's basically running on us. And this basically goes to finally collapses in early two thousand fourteen and that's where we see the monk spent crops start who was his Rosen guy. And did they recover any bighorns if the between were being leaked out to him in his accounts? So the Russian going jail is called Alexander vinick. He is someone that appeared in my investigation. It was one of the few names that I was able to identify. He basically acted I believe as the money launderer for these stolen bitcoins as they came out among God's they were sent into inequality. He moved them around it some which moved to be some of the move to trae hills. He moved to bitcoin ago, some of them to Joan dock itself as well to sell them office as a stolen coins and tried to transfer them into into cash really much much later. More people are going to say this on the US is starting their own investigation. As well. And they find this as well. And there's an arrest warrant for Nick that eventually called him while he was on vacation in Greece. That's this basically where that story is still on pause today because they're fighting over his extradition guys. Got you going into the ownership among the creditors of monks. Can you let us know where monks sits with the creditors? I hear multiple stories. Can you please help us clarify? Let me try to recap the bankruptcy story as well. As shortly briefly isn't young. It's by all means, it's as complicated as the monk story itself. So basically when Mongoose collapsed the website, we're going down they disabled withdrawals and whatnot. And eventually I believe it was on February twenty four th two thousand fourteen close on the website. Or was it the twenty eighth anyway. And February at that point Mongoose files for civil rehabilitation in the in the Tokyo court and that's basically simmer to filing for bankruptcy protection. In this. So basically stalling for time and looking for for how you can restructure and save the company recover from Lhasa someone it's in this time window. The Brock pairs is company sun lodge approach Markopoulo or rather to ban the company that Marcopper's owns which in turn owes monks and negotiate the try to acquire the Manco shares tavon owns, and they're they're negotiating for this. And they signed a letter of intent for it. But before any of that gets finalized, basically Mark realizes that Mangakis rehabilitation, which means that you can't do anything with other permission of the court. So he basically tries to one that back and restart negotiations probably under the court, and then that never went anywhere further from the so that basically negotiation stall never went anywhere while after that after of some push from creditors. Montgomery is instead files for bankruptcy, which means to liquid all assets and try to pay the much. Creditors, which basically is admitting failure to rehabilitate, and instead just giving up an now it became a normal. Bankruptcy dating. Where you get. Hold of creditors. You make a list of how much everyone was supposed to have. And then you look it was left in terms of money, and you pay that back out now mongo special because this quite a lot of money left in monks. There was two hundred thousand bitcoins found after the collapse. That was untouched. So those are the assets that are now everyone's trying to figure out how to pay them back to the creditors. This is a legal bureaucracies. Of course takes a ton of time. And that's why this is dragging out for years and years, basically, that's the way it's been for quite some time until coming up in two thousand seventeen with the ever increasing bitcoin price where the case run ins runs into a an unforeseen corner. Ks of the law, basically where the bitcoin price. Appreciate it so much that these. Two hundred thousand bitcoin are worth enough to cover what the dollar value of. Everyone's original bitcoins holdings worth at the time. The bankruptcy started and under bankruptcy law. Everything counts as that value. As of the commencement of the bankruptcy, which means that as of that point. There was an absurd surplus of fronts meaning that everyone would get paid out as much as their Bitcoin's worth to us in fourteen and then they were still be money left, and you would pay that to the shareholder in this case to Bonn and partially jed Michaela. And of course, being by markup list. Some of them go to Karpas now. That's obviously an outrageous outcome that no one was willing to accept, but that's the law of how bankruptcies are supposed to work. So since that point creditors have been working to instead push monks back into civil rehabilitation so back to the original sort of attempt to restructure the company in a way to handle its funds without bankruptcy liquid. Nation, and that was eventually approved by the court in the middle of last year so ever since then the bankruptcy trustee has been working instead to draw a plan where everyone's claim can be reevaluated and paid out to creditors in full instead of any of this shareholder nonsense. And that's basically where the bankruptcy is today. So just curiosity. I ran through calculator really quick two hundred thousand bitcoin at today's prices seven hundred twenty seven point five million dollars. How much of that is going to the creditors? And how much of that would go to the shareholders all of that is going to the graduates and some of those bitcoins have been sold by the trustee during the bankruptcy and there were sold at higher price. Actually, the assets of the estate is a bit more than those seven hundred million dollars. But at the moment since it's no longer, a bankruptcy that quirk of the law doesn't no longer apply. So the none of that is going to shareholders. It's just a matter of figuring out how to count everyone's creditor claims then they will get paid out to the creditors recently. There's been dispute of ownership of. Mt. Cox it seems as though with the amount of money. Involved and the possibility that some of that profit or surplus would go to the shareholders, it seems as good incentive for people to come out. And try to claim ownership is this what you're seeing. I don't know. But I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that it certainly looks suspicious to Sunday come in and say, by the way, I own all this and be extremely focused on this surplus that as we are established. We have us creditors have spent a lot of time to make sure that that won't happen. And then suddenly now someone appears seems very focus on that surplus and talking about ownership of the company again, it seems suspicious. Don't know if that's the motivation behind it. But it doesn't help the credibility. I would say. Now, a word from our sponsor keeps losing here sucks. How do I know what I see all my friends around me starting to lose their hair? They get a little embarrassed little self conscious. Do the comb over and well other weird hairstyles. Now keeps his ear one of the easiest most of way to keep the hair. You have these FDA approved products used to cost so much. But now things the keeps they're finally inexpensive and easy to get for five minutes now and just one dollar day. You'll never have to worry about your hair loss. Again, getting started with keeps us so easy setup. Takes less than five minutes. Just answer. Few questions snap some photos of your dome. A licensed physician review your information online recommend you the right treatment, and then keeps shipped to your door. Every three months keeps his only ten to thirty dollars a month. Plus now, you can get your first month free. That's a hell of a deal forgetting to keep your hair to receive your first month treatment for free. Go to keeps dot com slash crypto. That's K E P. S dot com slash crypto. That's a month free of treatment at keeps dot com slash crypto keeps here today here tomorrow now back to the show. This next question is about Brock Pierce his intentions with rising. Bright Pierce's stated that. Mt. Cox is anonymous with what's wrong with the crypto space, it taints, our efforts and the space in general it one of Brock's biggest cells on God's rising is paying off the creditors. But as we just established creditors are going to get paid. No matter what they will be paid first. So is Brock's intentions genuine. It's not genuine. But not just because of the reason you you mentioned it's not that creditors are getting paid back full in there to dozen fourteen variation. It's they're getting all the money that's their regardless of their claim valuation. So this horrible thing that Brock is talking about that he wants to fix has already been fixed. That's not gonna happen anymore. He's basing this information that is out of date. This hasn't been the case since early last year, and the only reason I can imagine for why he won't correct himself after this has been pointed to multiple times is that he's being. Dishonest misleading people, and I don't know. Exactly why. But yeah, it it's simply not on us at all to say that there's a surplus that's going to Markopoulo unless we let Brock come in and take over in. What ways has been resolved ready? You just said that Brooks information is out of date, and that he does not need to be involved at this point. So what was resolved to this point the thing that has been result is that it's no longer legally. Speaking of bankruptcy. It's a civil rehabilitation that distinction is important both because there's more flexibility involved in a civil revolution. When it comes to value in claims on how you pay them out. But also the fact that the process restarted, which means you can value claims that more modern values that means that you never get to that absurd point where the value of the current bitcoins held by the state becomes bigger them declaims when they were really valued. So at the moment there is no surplus because everyone's claims are valued much higher. It's a tricky legal. Quirk? It was never supposed to ever happen because bankruptcy law that never predicted the assets could appreciate this widely. But nonetheless, it is definite is a fact that this has been resolved by the fact that we converted the case back to civil rehabilitation in court. And as a result, the only way that this could ever come into dispute again is if someone gets into the case and starts to dispute the and starts to claim ownership or something like that. And that's why a lot of people are suspicious of what Brock is doing is. Why would he bring this up when his already been result talking about civil rehabilitation and from a perspective of somebody the head bitcoin Inman God's what outcome would you like to see honestly, I mean, it's been years. Everyone should just get paid back. Whatever was left. That's always been the case. The reason why this takes so long is because it has to go through a legal bureaucracy. Everything has to be confirmed you need to be able to try to filter out people who incorrectly or fraudulently claimed money so that they don't get paid. So you need to have this screening process needs to be approved by. But essentially the only outcome that creditors should see from. This is just pay all the money out because that belongs to the creditors in the first place. And then whatever you do after that point if you wanna restart new exchanges bring in you wanna plays a bid for the monks name and use that for your exchange. That's fine. That's great. I mean, Brooke likes to argue in these very wide and general terms about how any big better exchanges and things I think pretty much everyone is agreeing with that. And I think we further agree that if you wanna avoid regulation of the industry that's something that we need to solve ourselves by building ourselves, newer and better exchanges. So I mean, Brooke wants to do that kudos him mean? Great gopher what is being criticized for is injecting himself into the legal process at a point where we have this massive battle over setting things. Right. And then he Russia's in Lega bull in the China shop and seems very uninformed about it or actively spreading misinformation and confusing things. Like, no, stay out of that. Just let that run. Its course, let's fix that part. And then we can worry about the rest, you said Brooks coming in like a bull in China shop does that really matter at this point because it's been a long time. It's been years in the creditors. Have not seen any rehabilitation from your perspective in your opinion. Are you said we brought being involved because of the extra time that it might add to the rehabilitation or the creditors. See any money. I would have argued the same even if does have been just a year into the process. It's not just about him being confused and confusing. Creditors. It's about get it done. Right. Or don't do it at all. Like don't come in. And do something this on base it on dishonest claims you could have done this. I mean, it sounds the way he describes all this. It sounds like he wants to do the right thing. And once it is I mean nice for creditors. And all I'm saying is you could have done all that. And been honest about it and not been misleading. People not throwing false information into the process. An just do the bare minimum of what you actually need to do what you're claiming you're about. He can't really sabotage the process because he has no legal standing for the ownership claim, for example, the worst. There were thing. I see he could possibly do which she claims he doesn't want to do. And if it doesn't then fine. But if he thinks he has down his ownership claim he could for example, tried to litigator. He could say go to the bankruptcy trustee. Go to the court and say, no, I actually insist that I owned these shares, and we have to sort that out. And then basically he won't win that, but it will still take time and resources to at least formally handle that case. So it would it will take time. It was still be an annoyance. And meanwhile, as someone who spent a lot of time digging into this case and just trying to get to the truth of the matter. I object on a very personal level that someone is coming in on these trying to confuse the matter and rewrite the story. What are those clues that he's making these very easy for someone to say, hey, they're being designers right liquid? You said ownership, but what is using to validate those claims specifically back into dozen fourteen immediately. After monk ox went down Brooks company went to carbonless negotiated to try to by monks. That is undisputed certainly true. They signed a letter of intent which is what you're sign at the beginning of newish Asian to outline. That he goes on what you want this to lead towards at the conclusion of those negotiations you signed the actual formal agreement that sets this final terms of that position. And then you're done in this case, what happened was that they signed a letter tongues. And then Mark basically got told off by the Gordons. No, you can't do that. You're under civil religion. You can't enter into any deal Mongoose on the court being aware of it and approving so Mark went back the day after two days after went back to bronze know, this wasn't cool. We had to have to restart the process could you please sign this confirmation that we have mutually rescinded this letter of intent resigned the other day, so we can make a clean slate. Now, this is where the straight up dishonesty in my opinion starts because Brooke has refused to sign that document. And instead he us at sins that document has the chapter heading of confirmation he saying that this is where Mark confirms that he sold the company, but it was only ever a letter of intent is never finalize deal. There was no legal rights. To sell Montauk like them. But this is what Brock even to this day is claiming. No, this is actually a finalized deal. Legally binding Manca belongs to him except he doesn't ever intend to make any claims on it. But he's still insists on it. And it's there's no way you could look at the material and come to that conclusion, which makes me conclude that instead that he is intentionally misleading people are has convinced himself that this is the reality. He lives in now. I know we don't wanna speculate. Even though we might have speculated quite a bit along this journey. But I think everybody knows that ELO. I is not a legally binding document for sale or for purchase of an asset or a company or anything is it possible. That Brock actually has other documentation, or there has been other documentation filed besides the although I or the wording within the L Y that could prove or make a more substantial claim to ownership among talks. No, I don't see any possibility that if there had been. Better of it on the Brookwood show, it if not to the public onto the court because basically now there's nothing, but this letter of intent which proves nothing and in this case, the absence of evidence is evidence of upsets in my opinion. I know this speculative question again in let's keep Brock or any other actor out of this. But I want to understand the motives of trying to claim ownership of something. That's bankrupt has creditors. Coming after money, and the has Abed brand the seem no other motivation. Besides the possible payout to shareholders. If there is a surplus is that the possible benefit. I don't know if there isn't a financial benefit to it at all. I mean, the surpluses there you could possibly argue that if you're their owner, you could have a product or even gets like remaining intangible assets of the estate, for example, you can get that back to you for for nothing out or you're with the bankruptcy. It's supposedly maybe Brock Caesar. There's value in that in trying to restart the exchange may wants to as he said rebuild a new better exchange from the ashes among which is which would be an honorable. 'cause in that case, but you could do all that without. Any of the dishonesty at play, which is my man objection. I react very about people being intellectually dishonest. I think Brock may have a points in the past really wanted to do the right thing here, and he was trying to get hold among and maybe it really really disturbed him that he lost opportunity. Maybe he's still thinks Montauk something again make a big benefit from either financially or just in terms of reputation. He certainly seems to be doing a lot of milking of this for reputation. All ready, even though he's done nothing. So far except make the presentation with all the running around making interviews and with basically every podcast a newspaper get old of that kind of makes one wonder like doing just to get like some good PR because you'll get the good PR now. But no one's going to bother reporting on when you didn't follow through on it. I guess thank you for that. And I agree. I think there are a lot of times that a lot of people just focus on the headlines and don't do follow up. And I would hope I'm gonna make a commitment to myself and put a call to other podcasters or YouTubers that have had Brock yourself or other actors in. In the Mt. Cox Gok rising saga under shows to do fellow up after all of this is said and done in this schools under the carpet. Again. Let's go back. Reevaluate and see what happened and the outcome from all of this. So I think you for that statement, I think doing anything other than that is sort of lets people like this Bank on the short term memory of the media space because we look at today's news, but a lot of the stuff happening, and these especially especially in complex as like this stuff doesn't happen in a single day. I mean, you'll you'll have the start of the process today on the end of the process from eighteen months from now who's going to have the memory to keep that in mind. If the media doesn't do that properly. I mean, I kind of think that the reason that all of this looks so much like a poorly thought through media spectacle is because I think it is thought through major spectacle interesting thought so what Brock or anyone is getting from. This is PR is certainly is stomach does not even dispute. I mean, he's clearly getting a massive amount of positive meteoroid. Ignition for it. Well, I don't know about one hundred percent positive while I would say there's probably more negative than positive. Let's just say that. He he gets his side of the story out first and that can be worth about. Okay. Fair enough before we go. I want to say thank you very much for coming on. And I know it's super late in Japan right now. I think it's like five or six AM in you state up. You said your night owl. But you stayed up all night to talk to us ensure this story, so thank you very much. You're welcome. It was nice coming out. But before we go I want to ask you one last question for somebody that has been following the space ever since the early days. Are you bullish on the future of chain? Crypto currency the short simple. Yeah. The technologies hair is not going away. It's already visualized the world. It's going to keep doing that. Perhaps not as explosively some people would like to see it. But it's changed the way we look at finance for for better or worse, and it's going to keep doing them. So am I bullish in the Suns that bitcoin will never go down to zero 'cause it's never going to have zero value again? So in that sense, I think is more likely to go up than down right on Kim. Thank you very much for coming on to win one. Thank you. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of crypto one Kim if you're listening. Thank you very much for coming on the show is a pleasure to meet you, sir. I hope you Japan or at a bitcoin conference somewhere around the world in this next episode. We talked to Mr Richard Hart about bitcoin Hex and how bitcoin he feels failed as a crypto currency. This episode is an edited version of the live video that Richard. And I did last week. So if you wanna see the live video, you can go to Richard's YouTube channel, Richard Hart and watch it there or listen to this next episode, which is edited and much more concise like always apogee crypto dot com. APO G E crypto dot com. The best place for your real time prices, and I'm gonna say thank you very much to Mr. j Lobello for editing. This episode was see you in future episodes of crypto one. Oh one.

Mr. Brock Pierce Mt Cox Mark Mr Kim Nilsson Montauk Japan trustee soccer Brooke Greece Markopoulo Kim Nosan Brooks cryptocurrency Matthew Aaron Hyde Jain Nicole Mr Richard Hart
 Parasite with Grace Jung

The Bechdel Cast

1:56:02 hr | 9 months ago

Parasite with Grace Jung

"Hello, everybody Jamie from the Bechtel cast here to talk about one of my favorite fashion companies of all time. It is Super Yawkey folks to you love movies, and when we say movies, we mean the good movies such as the ones we cover on this podcast or the bad ones everyone told you not to like see national treasure it sounds like Super Yawkey. Is the place for you because the team at Super Yawkey loves movies so much that they've dedicated every single waking moment of their life to bringing you top quality merchandise to showcase your love for them. They have super soft t shirts advocating for the immediate production of a third national treasure, which is a movement that we cosign in spite of ourselves by the way. To come sweatshirts that serve as a call to arms for those in support of making Judy greer. America's one to lead which we also cosign, and now that we're in the scary month of all, they've got stuff for all your favorite spooky movies. We're talking the addams family values Halloween scream an. Collection dedicated to the one and only gear Moat del Toro you'll notice these are all movies that we have at least covered the expanded universe of just on a personal note I love Super Jaki. Sodas Caitlin I kid you not I wear their stuff multiple times a week every time I wear my film by Nora Ephron shirt I'm rapping Super Yucky every time I wear my you wouldn't steal a DVD crop top justice for Phantom of the opera two, thousand, four Hulo. They also sent me a the end the ending credits of the emperor's new groove. Extremely. Hon. Brand. They're just the absolutely best. I can't say enough I, wear my Super Yawkey bunk, June Ho sweatshirt all the time everything they make is the best. Caitlyn. Also wanted to mention that for her birthday this year both me and her mom sent her these same joined the army, Josie, the pussycats t shirt that super hockey released truly they only released bangers cannot. Recommend their stuff enough not to mention every month super. Yawkey donates ten percent of their profits to different organizations that they believe in. I love that they do this, they have supported the global network in the past, the Houston Food Bank, and the Doctor Renewal Fund plus the team at Super. yawkey screen prints all their apparel using ECO friendly one, hundred percent water based. Inks and chips with compostable Paulie mailers for an environmentally friendly alternative to online shopping, and as a special gift to you listeners can save ten percent on their order with code super cast at checkout. If the spirit moves you, you can find them at Super Yagi DOT com that super Y I, Dot, com let's watch more movies and let's match everybody. Go to super. Jaki. Welcome to teach me something new podcast from iheartradio Britain. Cal On your host Brit Morton I'm an entrepreneur, a CEO a mom and I'm curious about a lot of things we've already learned so much together and I can't wait for what's next my co host and best engineers are back with brand new episodes every Wednesday. Listen to teach me something new on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. On. The dog cast questions asked movies have women and. All their discussions, boyfriends, and husbands who do they have individualism Patriarchy Zaphon vast start changing with the Becca del Cais. Caitlyn yes. Jamie starting to think capitalism might be dot dot dot not so great. Way, what. While that was what I got for an opening I I just I feel like I've really like my oh, my opening game has really diminish lately and I don't know if it's just because like my it's nine trillion degrees on my brain is just boiling inside of my skull or. Or if it's all finally getting to me I I you know personal policies for that Real Lou Forum opening. I could have done better I will strive to do. So Jamie don't apologize I mean this is a this is a difficult time. Well, welcome to the Bechtel cast my name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Dante, and this is our our little podcast where we talk about some incredible movies and some not incredible movies using an intersectional Feminist Lens for discussion. That's right and we use the Bechtel tests often known as the Bechtel Wallace test as a way to just inspire a larger. Conversation in that is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel, and it requires that for our purposes are sort of modified version of the test to people from a marginalized gender must have names must speak to each other and they must not talk about a man many movies don't do it, but but but some movies do but sometimes it happens that's just the nature. It's kind of a pass fail test. There's not really a middling although sometimes there's so fun ones like my. Whole conversation about it sometimes to women with with names or just apologizing over nothing like like I was doing you know just two minutes ago so. They're shades of grey there as well. But. I'm really really really excited to talk about today's movie popular request and and one of my favorites. Yes and we have a terrific guest joining us today. She is a comedian. She is a PhD candidate in cinema and media studies and her academic publications have covered such things as television studies, Korean Media Asian American History Gender and sexuality. It's grace Deng Hello, Hi log on you. So happy to please review here we're happy to have you. So grace tell us about your general relationship with the film parasite Oh. Yeah. We did also recovering parasite hangs. Like popular request. Levy guessing as to what movie like, Why am I here? Who are these people? Yeah. Yeah. I love this movie parasite I've been I've been following the filmmaker pumpkin hosts career for a long time. And I would say he's like the first Korean filmmaker to really make it. into the mainstream Zeitgeist in the United States and other parts of the world. Yeah and I I really love his filmmaking interesting side note on Poon. He studied sociology in College. So he actually did not study film making per se. But. I say because of his educational background, a lot of his movies cover sort of that like the sociological kind of critique of Korean society and capitalism a lot. Yeah and Yeah. I mean I. I was very excited to see the movie because I saw the trades that he had won the palm door for his latest movie parasite and I was like, okay, that's a big deal. 'cause know like a Korean filmmaker to win a palm door can is a big deal. Yeah, and then i. went to see it in theaters with the friend. Another create American friend was her birthday. I went to see it I thought the movie was so astounding like such a such an amazing movie and I watch a lot of films 'cause I work in film right about film. But like I hadn't seen a movie that made me feel that like elated and so long. And Yeah. Right. After the movie ended as we were leaving my friend immediately wanted to talk to me about it and I was like you have to stop talking right now I just I just need to go home and. Process, this road. So, I, just I just went home processed it and then I texted like. Like two other American friends of mine and I was just like parasite you have to see it. We have to see a together and like they want to see it by themselves, and then we went as a group together to go and see it again and Yeah. It's like a film that it could keep returning to I. Think it's really well done for sure. Jimmy. What about you? This was one of I, mean this is. In no way hot take was one of my favorite movies I saw last year. Is it a couple of different times in theaters and this was kind of embarrassingly my first movie from from the director I I hadn't seen anything else because before this podcast started I didn't watch a ton of movies but after seeing parasite, hey, went back into his film catalog nosy in the majority I haven't seen I? Think to a of his films but yeah, I, just kind of swivelled into becoming Stan and I love this movie I hadn't seen it and a couple of months, and it was really fun to go back to after not having been watching it like once a week towards the beginning of the year. Yeah but I I I really love it yeah. Caitlin what is your experience with this movie? Pretty similar I I had seen a few of his films in the past. And I went into parasite not knowing anything about it because I had seen the host and because the movie is called parasite I thought it was also going to be like a monster movie. I was like, oh no just kidding. It's not that at all I'd also seen snow piercer and I was like, okay, it's more aligned see. With snow piercer because of like the class commentary but I hadn't seen Osha which I saw I watched over the weekend and I have never I've SOC- sobbing at the end of the kind of sobbing where your job you can't breathe because you're. So hard anyways. You need. And it's very sad. Animals the super piglets and anyway. I was traumatized and then case I I do really enjoy his filmography and I loved parasite. I only saw it once in theaters but I've seen it a number of times since then because it came out on Hulu so I was very thankful feminist icon who live. By Fox was like Disney. Movies. Disney rebounds for sure there. Feminists. Cash grab it. Oh Okay. So should I just dive into the recap and we'll go from there? Yeah. Let's do it. I like how I asked that question every single episode. Okay. Thank you for asking for consent before starting to. Well you know I just WanNa make sure we're on the same page. All right. So we meet the Kim family. It's a mother father son and daughter I believe the son and daughter are in their late teens. Early Twenties. Not, entirely sure Early Twenties early because at the end, you find out how old the daughter was because a says she was born in Nineteen, nine, hundred six. Twenty three okay. Got It. I missed that detail good to know in any case they come from a low socio economic background they live in this like semi basement level apartment their phones have been shut off they don't have access to Wifi anymore they do kind of odd jobs like folding pizza boxes for work for money. Then one day and apologies in advance for all of the horrible pronunciations I am going to do of these green characters, names but Kiu. The son gets a visit from his friend men who brings the family this. Stone that is meant to bring like wealth and prosperity to the family, and he is also leaving to study abroad. It's fun when the when the stone comes in you're like, oh, it's a metaphor stone I wonder why the metaphor will be but even when I don't know you know you can sometimes tell it's a metaphor just by the way it's framed really well, it's funny because like it's but it's also like and pay off. So it's like it has a narrative purpose. It has a symbolic purpose. Even cues is like this is metaphorical Making Fun of people watching the movie and jail time with great. So, anyway. So men is leaving to study abroad and he wants to recommend cue for his old job tutoring a girl from a rich family. Cues sister helps him forge a college degree I think or some kind of official academic document, and he goes in for an interview and he meets Mrs Park who is naive and gullible she interviews him and gives him the job. He also meets the teen girl that he'll be tutoring and the young son. We also think at this point, meet the parks housekeeper. So Mrs Park then also tells him that her son. Let me check the pronunciation here her son Dawson needs an art teacher and Q. is like I know of someone who might be a good fit this classmate of my cousin and who he really means is his sister ki-jong. And Illinois Chicago Yes yes and so Mrs Park gives them English Names Kevin and Jessica which I might default to using for the sake of again not continuing to embarrass myself l every time I fail in pronounce pronounce them just fine so far okay. Oh, so much I'm very self conscious. You're welcome. You're so welcome. I just don't want to be disrespectful. Okay. So Jessica pretending to have the necessary credentials and experience gets the job doing art therapy for the young son and we also meet the father of the rich family Mr Park and his driver takes Jessica home and she leaves her underwear in the car planting it as incriminating evidence knowing that it'll probably get him fired which it does. So now that driver position is open for. Mr. Kim to be able to get that job. Now the only thing they have left to do is to get rid of the park family's housekeeper so that their mom Mrs, Kim, can have that job enter the peach. Yes. This one's a little trickier because of the housekeeper has been working in this home for years and years, but the use her peach allergy against her and they're able to get her fired by convincing Mrs Park that the housekeeper has tuberculosis. Just like one of the funniest secrets is in the mood that whole sequence is just so fucking funny it's. Shaving the little peach off the peaches and collecting in like a little tiny little vial the hawks at the end. It's just great. Yeah. So then Mrs Kim gets hired as the park family housekeeper. And now they're all working for this rich family and one day the parks go on a camping trip the Kim's like. Well, let's see what it's like to live lavishly in this upscale home. So they're eating drinking or carrying on, but then someone shows up at the door and it's the old housekeeper who says she left something behind. So Mrs, Kim reluctantly lets her in the house. She goes down into the basement and it turns out there is a secret bunker down there. This is what we would call the mid point of the film and It's not as though I have a screenwriting masters degree or anything like that. I'm the least educated person and the. ME. Okay. So they go into this secret bunker where the former housekeeper's husband has been living for the past four years because he is hiding from debt collectors now, Mrs Kim Threatens to call the police on the former housekeeper and her husband. But just then her family who had been eavesdropping on this whole interaction like tumble down the stairs and accidentally reveal themselves and the old housekeeper who recognizes all of them and realizes that they have been lying. About. who they are threatens to expose them to the park family a big fight breaks out between them, and then the park family calls to be like, Hey, it's raining the camping trip has been cut short. We're on our way home. We're we'll be there in eight minutes. So everyone has to scramble the Kim's drag housekeeper and her husband backed down into the basement. There's violence, and then the park family arrives back home and meal is made A. It looked so good the family hinds in the living room under the coffee table they tried to escape but get delayed because Mr and Mrs Park are right there jerking each other off the couch. Matching Pajamas to it just just. Never, not disturbing to watch. I'm like, I know you're like I don't know do do thing but in matching pajamas surrealist portrayal of married couples sex life. Matching Gray, pajamas jerk each other off joyously Jenner off. Their son is an attendant mere yards away. Do you. So they're right there and Mr Park thinks that he can smell Mr Kim's smell because he has commented on how different members of the family have commented on how the Kim family has a distinct kind of foul smell about them. So, eventually, the Kim family are able to escape. So Kevin, Jessica, and Mr Kim return home, but their basement level apartment has been flooded with sewage water because of this storm that's happening, and then they're trying to out what to do about this situation with the previous housekeeper and her husband than the next day the parks throw an impromptu birthday party for. The Sun and they invite Kevin and Jessica and Mr Mrs Kim Are they're working and helping out with the Party and then during the party Kevin goes down to the basement, he discovers the old housekeeper who has died from her head injury and the housekeeper's husband bashes. Kevin. On the head and then he goes out into the party also she's she's told her. Husband to like vow to kill Mrs Kim or at least attempt to go Mrs Kim Right. Yes. Yeah. And then the housekeeper's husband goes out into the Party and stabs. Jessica. All Hell breaks loose. Then Mr. Kim Sees Mr Park being disgusted by the smell that he smells on like the housekeepers has been so Mr Kim Stabs Mr Park and then runs. Off Unknown knows where he is at first. But then some time passes Q. has survived his head injury. He figures out that his dad is in the bunker and he forms a plan to become rich enough that he can buy the House that his dad is hiding and they can all reunite and we see this play out as a kind of flash forward. But it cuts back to the present. He is still in like the basement level apartment implying that that's probably never going to happen the end the. Very. Uplifting. Film. Just brings joy So that's the story. Let's take a quick break and we'll come right back to discuss. Not to Brag or anything but I've been wearing glasses for about twenty years. 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Something that I wasn't totally aware of before I started researching for this episode was I mean I know that this movie really resonated with American audiences but I didn't know that much about the socio economics of South Korea. I am kind of running on like a basic par American history education as it is. So I prior to preparing for this episode, only new kind of the basics on South Korean history next to nothing and so for those of you that are in the same boat as me on that Here are a couple of quick facts this is from. Literally Socialist Dot net if you can believe. Feminist icons socialist little little website called socialist dot net. But just contextualized the class disparity in South Korea `assises from a piece. By Andy, Southwark about parasite quote created had barely developed under the yoke of Japanese imperialism at the end of the Korean War. In nineteen, fifty three the south remained a largely rural economy with very low standard of living in the period. Immediately following the war, the south was totally dependent on the US followed the guidance of their American masters by relying on the quote. Unquote Free Market to provide development this growth was driven by the rise of state-sponsored conglomerates called. I don't know if I'm saying this correctly show balls H H E. B O l s a chaebol. which came to totally dominate the economy. The shape balls were run by the country's elite families who use corruption and their state contacts to amass humongous fortunes. They of course, made sure that their wealth was passed on to their children on the basis of this development. A new working class was formed in the cities and a massive wealth divide up up with skyrocketing inequality after the nineteen ninety-seven Asia's financial crisis several shape balls went bankrupt and Korea entered a period of mass unemployment, parasite hints that this is the background to both the parks wealth and the Kim's poverty unquote. So that was just I. I wasn't aware of the context of. I mean I I guess this story certainly reads to any audience that has a background of mass. You know income inequality but yeah, I just didn't know that for listeners that don't know. Yeah. tebow is. Not Shape but. Taper is the the it's a huge problem in South Korea. Like for instance, Samsung, is a chip by corporate conglomerate Samsung you could kind of imagine a to be like a massive like. You know you have apple iphones and tablets. You have Samsung mobile phones and tablets. Fact I saw a Samsung cell phone that blew my mind. It's it's a it's just it's a glass screen you know typical but told my God. Oh, I've Yeah I've heard about these or like. You have to see. In half to see it with your own eyeballs. It's like watching it is still mind blowing. I would see this in Korean dramas a lot because that's Embedded marketing and when I saw that I was just like I want that phone so badly. You know fuck apple I don't care anymore Samsung you've outdone yourself but yeah. Are, a huge problem. For instance, some this film was executive produced by Mickey. Mickey Lee. Is the daughter of Sampson corporate conglomerate because Samsung is associated with CJ and CJ will. It's actually a food conglomerate but CJ has a subdivision call cj entertainment which handles filmmaking TV and some music. So they have a lot of cable channels newspaper. So it's a huge corporate conglomerate. Yeah So yeah these are a problem and their problem because it's again it's like a family based thing right so nepotism is a big issue. Corruption is a big issue. Cronyism is a big issue as what Micky Lee, what's ironic about this film winning an Oscar and some Ice All some people in social media talk about this too is that Mickey Lee is like this daughter of this huge temple establishment and yet she's the one that's executive producing a film that has a very sharp social critique. Of capitalism right and that goes to asking like we'll how like what's what parallels do we have in the United States like you know I mean Fox's now owned by Disney. But before that like you know when when you have the simpsons or family guy on on Fox which always has a critique of these mega corporations, right? It's. How impactful is that critique when it is owned under the umbrella of a? Conglomerate, right? Yeah. The irony. Yeah. The like perhaps hypocrisy of it all is. It comes into that whole discussion of by. It feels fucking impossible to make to get anything funded without some sort of corporate underlying. It is possible, but it's like the hill is infinitely higher in like. Imagine how much harder it would have been for this movie to get funded without the corporate underwriting and I mean it just goes back to like the no no ethical consumption arguments, right? Yeah. It's I. Mean even even if a person does make a film without any of those corporate ties, the goal is still to sell it. You know to have a distributed and if that film let's say a pure little film grassroots right somehow made it big. The first person that's going to be on the phone contact with the filmmaker is somebody who is going to compromise all of those things for that person right and will that person say no most likely? No, they will say yes. All right. If you WANNA if you WANNA be successful as an artist if you want to pay off your your three credit cards that you maxed out. In order to make that film, you're GonNa say, yes and Yeah I. Don't blame you at all for for doing that. You know it is like I mean, how much awareness do you have of that? Like do you make these things with that full awareness? No knowing that all of us, all of us are are tied to that still bound to that whether we like it or not I. Mean we're on Iheartradio right now like this is exactly I notice there is quite honestly escaping. Right and how do you like without the funding it would have been as difficult to make as it would have been for like q to like earn enough money to buy the that Parkhouse and like rescue his dad like it's just Stockley it's not in the socio economic structures that many countries operate under. It's simply not possible social mobile like UPWARD MOBILITY Damn near impossible. Yeah and I think that's so important to highlight like first of all, what that shows or what this discussion shows is that capitalism is actually a lot more complex. It's more complex than just saying capitalism as the evil of all it's like yeah. Okay. That's true. But we're still working within this framework of capitalism what what can we do you know and then what you just said about social mobility is I think it's so. It's key to this film. It's a key marker of this film this concept of the Odor, right? This odor that offends. Mr. Park so much and then Mr Park Intel's his wife Mrs Park about a she didn't even have any awareness of it. He tells her about it and then the next day she notices the stench of of Mr Kim right which goes to show like, oh, well, she's really under the. Thumb of her husband you know very impressionable wife and. He says something very interesting about this odor. He's like I like Mr Kim because he never crosses that line. I don't like what people cross the line but that odor crosses the line and that's a very, very like clear cut rationale that all rich people have they don't want the poor to be socially mobile they simply do not because as soon as a person as socially mobile, right? They crossed the so called line, they lose that person. To continue to function in their big houses with their cars with their with their regular lavish convenient lifestyle, and so they do not want social mobility, right but with power do not want the port to be socially mobile. Yeah. Because then they don't have anyone left to exploit exactly the the smell works on so many levels on like I don't know when I first saw movie I was like. I guess like semi triggered myself because that was like I don't know I grew up in a family with that smell and it's a literal metaphor in some ways where it's like the most deeply humiliating thing you like is it's one of the most deeply humiliating feelings I've ever felt as hearing someone else talking about how you smell thinking. You can't hear them like it's the worst feeling in the world and then on top of that I thought it was really interesting that even when I mean, it's also metaphorical right where there's. Nothing. They can do to get the smell off. They actively try to use different soaps they're like trying to strategically that's like the one part of this whole ruse that the Kim family has going that gives them away as like that somehow being poor is you can't wash it off on hide it. Yeah. Yeah. Can't hide smells and smell offends right? It's it depends on the smell. But if it's a smell, you don't like it offends and it's something you can't hide. Yeah. Like you said, gives it away gives your status away. And Yeah I. I thought this use of the odor was really clever. I thought it was really clever device in the phone. Yeah and like I was reading this piece by Laura marks she writes it's a it's a it's an academic piece journal article but talks about. This smell as a potential sensory tool for analysis like analyzing a film where media and I was just thinking about like. Colonization to a certain extent. So. Like Korea is a South Korea's now a developed nation. It's one of the wealthier nations in the world now. But there is still such a thing as global hierarchy right as we as we know after the the Korean civil war. South Korea and north. Korea were separated because of USSR and US, cold? War tensions so. So. Unions will take care of North Korea. US. You take south. Korea and will be cool. Right. So Korea was divided because of foreign cold war tensions. And South. Korea. Was Pretty much right after its liberation from Japanese combination which lasted from nineteen thousand, nine, hundred, forty, five, South Korea was like, okay. Well, I mean I guess we're technically free but no, they weren't free right like you. USSR and US took over all of those spaces and occupations enrolls that Japan was occupying, right? and. When the Japanese Colonize Out Korea, they had this notion that like, oh, Japan was going to be the new imperial empire in Asia and they were going to colonize all these countries and. They're going to become just as successful as the West just as imperial as the West that was the dream Japan had, and then of course, you know the United States bomb the shit out of Japan and destroyed the country and you know lost World War Two. Japan the Japanese Lake during this colonization process with Korea, they had this sanitation policy. So the Japanese would look down on the Koreans and say you know they're so backward and you know they're very agrarian like you said, there was a rural economy. So curious full of mountains and Fields of farming. And they were like, they don't know sanitation. and. The Japanese didn't like the smells of South Koreans because of what whatever their lifestyle was like. And so not only do you have that but you also have this the the cuisine of South, Korea where there's a lot of fermentation. So you have lake ten John, which is a soybean fermented soybean paste, and then you have a Kimchi as everybody now knows. Back in nineteen ninety two when I first emigrated to the United States and I, brought my Korean food lunch to my ps one twenty-seven. Brooklyn. Public School. Okay. The horror. The trauma that it left on everybody because they brought a role of king up to class I mean it was just unbelievable, right? The smell of sesame oil, the smell of fermented Kimchi this, and this this lunch story is like universal. You could ask you literally grabbed any Asian off the street and be like, do you have a lunch story with white people and there'd be like yes? Yes, I, do I've heard my childhood it's like a ritual. It's a rite of passage into childhood. Immigrant childhood trauma in the United States, and so you have the smell that offense, the fermented cabbage smell that offense. But today. You have white people eating Kimchi in their cars like a salad with no problem. Why? How how does that happen? Right. So like South Korea went through this huge globalization process in the in the nineties this president and King's home was like I want South Korea to be just as globally branded and successful S. Japan right because and by the Japan, was kicking ass like Sony was global Japan at a huge stake in Hollywood through Sony. They had Walkman, Walkmans came from Japan in Hello Kitty. Everywhere. Right. Japanese. Sushi was a huge thing, right? Yeah and you know everybody was getting down with Japanese products and Korea was like we need to get there. Right because you know Korea doesn't have a lot of natural resources. They don't have a lot to export and they needed to make it economically and so they started. Doing this. Global branding process and Kimche was a big part of that. So it's it's no accident that suddenly white people are eating at cars like a salad. Okay. This was very much like step by step procedure that South Korea went through as a government. K pop being global that's also not an accident. Korean dramas being on Netflix is not an accident. Korean films winning can't palm doors not an accident like the Korea's been trying Korean films finally, winning an Oscar is not an accident Korea's been trying to win an Oscar for decades and they finally was able to do this and so Yeah. Globalization is a big part of this and I will also say US neocolonialism is also a big part of this because it's like Korea to convince the United States that. Create was not a stinky country or you can get down with the stink. You know it's an acquired stench acquired odor acquired taste and you can get down with an it's like this. The branding thing tricks you you know it gets people on board and South Korea has been doing it for thirty years. He finally did it. Yeah. Wow that yeah, that's such helpful context. Thank you for. Truly like there we we are very much on a learning learning curve here. So that is incredibly helpful. I mean even in understanding how the Park's behave in this movie where there's like I had I was sort of guessing my way around it. Preview in my previous reads of the movie where I mean they are very responsive to Western culture I. think that there is like that commentary in there with their sons fixation on native American culture and the native culture, and also the cowboy culture that is kind of the. False colonial inverse to it right and as as well as how easily their fooled. So like one of the themes that I. Really. that. Hit for me more on this viewing just having read through more interviews with the director is the fact that the parks aren't necessarily they're not made out to be these villains necessarily. which is cool I. Mean you still aren't extremely upset with Mr. Park dies at the end like he hasn't coming. It is Cathartic to see him go down for treating poor people. So dismissively, but there is a quote from Bunk joon-ho that he did in a really incredible vulture profile from last year. where he says basically that it is a movie with No. And no villains and even though the perks are made out to be more gullible dismissive and ignorant of the lower classes rather than actively. Whatever rubbing their hands together patting the cat and saying like I know exactly what they'll do. They're completely unaware uninterested and I mean even to bring back the the smell metaphor like upset when a reminder of the lower classes is intrusive in the smallest way to their to their daily life. Especially because like the park family only wants to deal with anyone from the lower class as long as they seem also like elite you know what? I, mean. We're like they. He gets out little business card for like the care which is like this elite housekeeping membership service and with a lot of gates. Yeah. Right. Exactly and they find Mr Kim as the driver appealing because he was working for this wealthy family of. The, the forgery of the College degree document you had like the in the two kids ki-jong in Q. Jessica and Kevin. They actually presented themselves as fellow equals fellow socioeconomic equals like. To say that they studied abroad like Jessica says she studied Illinois. To say that as a marker of Elitism, right the way that Mrs. Park speckles an English whenever she can you know to give these people like to address them in English names Jessica and Kevin it's a marker of Elitism and that's why I say that he was new colonial kind of tones are in there because Korea South Korea Equates elitism and success and financial security with America it's not working out for anybody. In this concept of I really like that. Paul mentioned that because in the context of like I don't. I. Don't know if this make to heavy but in the context of. In a melodrama as a frame rate melodrama MELODRAMAS oftentimes. They say that there is a narrative mode within melodrama. So when you watch a melodrama, there's a very clear evil person very clear hero, right like a young girl, an orphan girl working class work so hard so honest you know so beautiful. So caring right, but she just can't get out of the shits right and what does she do just a hot rich guy and she does and the hot rich guy likes. Her because she's so honest and hard-working but there's always an evil bitch who likes that rich guy to she'll do anything to bring her down right and so it's very clear who the villain is and who the victim is but in a neoliberal liberal context of melodrama, there is no clear villain. There's just a victim right? You know nobody ever names the villain everybody always names victimhood like my victim at my plate. That that's just a very clever way to present. That is to say that yeah, like in capitalism may be there is no villain after all to say like all these people are evildoers is. Perhaps not realistic right to vilify these people would get the characters would be caricatures they wouldn't be relatable at all. And that's something we talk about on the podcasts quite a bit although in a different context, we usually have disgusted from the point of view of like certain male characters in movies being predators, and then being Zo cartoonish Lee evil that no, one would ever be able to see themselves in someone. So cartoonish Lee Evil and they're like, well, I can't I'm not a Predator like that. So I'm not a Predator right but like. Really, not all men. Like you would never make any I mean it's A frustrated way it's just like good business to make that choice because you don't want your average consumer to look at something and be like, wait a second I feel called out I'm leaving you know like. Yeah. So it's easier to go the cartoon route. And like Amy Schumer talk about that too where when she was like, you know people think that like rape is. Rape or sexual assault is like they think of a very conveniently. You know like a stranger attacks, you an assault, your rapes you but yeah most sexual assault happens with people you know and trust you know somebody that's completely human in your life, and that's what makes sexual assault all the more traumatic confusing. but it's almost never depicted that way in media never it's never your beloved handsome boyfriend who has a stable job and knows your parents really well and takes care of your younger brother. It's never that guy but in reality it is more often than not it. Factually the prime candidate and that's what's so interesting to me about this movie is that a lot of movies that comment on class will be like rich people bad poor people good poor people can do no wrong and it's the poor people taking down the rich people which don't get me wrong. I like a lot of those movies and I think they have a lot of value and I find them to be very cathartic. But on the other hand this movie has a much more complex examination of that where it's like it's almost like well, the desperation of poverty makes you have to compete with other lower class people and that's why When we as it push a second family into the basement so that you can live upstairs. Get other people fire so you could take their play. Yes. Exactly. They're the there's the scene where the Kim family is drunk I feel like this is stated most singly where they have this conference. There's a few different from this conversation that you're like, okay. This is kind of the thesis or felt to me what the movie is but one of the moments that really stuck with me that I hadn't. I hadn't given a ton of attention to in previous watching were when they're talking about I think it is Q. and Mr Kim start to talk about how the driver got fired and they're like, oh. What do you think he's doing now he probably got a good job. He's fine conscious plagues. Yeah but then the daughter who is more drunk than everyone. Interrupts and says. We're the ones who need help worry about, US okay and that line it never really jumped out to me before. But that he is so much of what it seems like trying to be said about like you can't really fault her for that mindset because. This is a family that's trying to lift themselves out of poverty, and that is a brutal experience that often requires. Pushing other people down to get there like it. Grace were you were just saying about I. Don't know just kind of the narrative we're presented with and over and over of being lifted out of poverty, and then you're just you've taken the place of the rich people and you're probably going to do the right thing and it's very easy and it's but but this is like the most one of the most. Brutal like funny interpretations of that experience. To the point where it's like, yes she kind of has to say we're the ones who need help worry about us because. If the Kim family was worrying and doting on these other people, they wouldn't be where they are and that's not to say that poor people are not helping each other out. That's certainly not true I mean. We're seeing around us currently how much mutual aid is going on and how people are at. It's not to say that people are completely disinterested in helping each other even if they don't have a lot of privilege themselves, but in this example and in this large metaphor. It totally makes sense and it's brutal the here but. Yeah I. Don't know that line had never really jumped out to me before this viewing. Yeah I totally agree with everything you said. Statistically, it's the people with a lower income who have more compassion and empathy this. This is factually true. Yeah. The more money you have the less in touch you are with humanity and compassion and all of that no matter how many tax deductible charity donations person makes right? But? So you have this sense of guilt conscience that Mr Kim and q both kind of. And then. John gets angry and says now focus on us. You know the ones living in poverty and Mrs Kim also says that she's like they're so everybody in the family so sweet and kind of no. Yeah. because. If you're wealthy you. Of course, you'll be kind of course you'll be happy. You'll be nice. You know she was like, if I had money I'd be just as Nice. It's Kinda true. You know when you come from the Shit's you're going to have some of the Shit marks the odors you're gonNA have more wrinkles you're gonNA seem a little more referenda urges. I love that exchange. That whole as a family unit it's like that that dialogue was like A. Commentary on how complicated it is to live in a capital society as a low income household. And I like that it's ki-jong and Mrs Kim that point these things out because they're I mean in general and this is this is not even a criticism of the movie I think it's just kind of like something that shows up in Male Otter movies all the time is like at the end of the day it's about fathers and sons That's so many movies and that is I mean, it's not June hose fault. It's just the fact that men make most movies and so this is a theme we see a lot. So I I don't know if I on this looking for those like really clarify most of those clarifying moments come from the women and the family and the fact that Qizheng is the mastermind of basically this entire plan and gets them to where they are which I think probably contributes to her frustration that they're talking about something else when she is like. Basically gotten them to all this in the first place. Yeah, I, mean I. One of the only things that I wish I had we had more of in this movie I wish that there was a little more Mrs Kim like I feel like she steals every scene she's in she's so great. She's amazing and the four I like she's kind of the least present. She's the last family member to get hired, and then I don't know I mean I think it's just the father son dynamic that kind of takes up more of the air in that plot, which again isn't a problem. I just wish that you saw a little more of her. that. Yes, she's the actress name is Tongue hidden and she's actually in a very, very popular Korean drama netflix's call crash landing onto you anyway. Yeah. She's remarkable and her character is also really interesting. I mean she was like. What is it like a shot put thrower What that is what she was like an Olympic athletes maybe like she was like she was an athlete she was a silver medal winning athlete right and like sports is such a big deal for Koreans. You know it's like sports is usually a form of way out of poverty usually. What went wrong. What went wrong for her I'm so curious you know like a silver medallists like the father is like he's done a bunch of maybe he's the person who brought her to ruin. You know she married the wrong he's shit. You know and Oh and another interesting parallel was that the Kim family they were also like they also face financial ruin with the cake shop they say like a Castilla Taiwanese cake shop and Stella is like this sponge cake pastry that like Koreans loved you know like in the eighties and nineties because it was so Aryan fluffy and delicious, and like it was a popular cultural product that they were selling in lot of bakeries. But anyway, dot went bust and then they were just stuck in financial ruin and in the basement, the guy says the same thing he's like oh my. Castilla Bakery went bust and and then the wife is again, we took out money with loan sharks. It's much more severe than debt collectors loansharking as a huge issue in Korea. Essentially gangsters and thugs who will comment break your Legs Destroy Your House Destroy Business Kill people whatever in order to collect debt and the interest rate is ridiculously high. It's like beyond credit cards and it's impossible to get out of debt when you get stuck with loan sharks and so yeah, that's that's also like this interesting parallel. It's like an how the Kim family wasn't the same circumstances as the. The housekeeper and her husband, and yet they're not willing to give up their position as of now. Right they're not willing to really work with them. Being just wanted to kind of call the police and. Oust him right until the family fell from the stairs and ruined everything. I would also say that like I say kee-chung is the mastermind all of it I would say it's It's a it was a collective effort between ki-jong 'n Q. Because you wouldn't have gotten that job if it was forest friend, right to come in, give him that position kion was kind of like the facilitators with documents this and that I would say Q. was more of the mastermind the one that was making all these plans I been. So called plan, right? Yeah. Just kind of coming back to what you were just talking about grace where it's kind of the Kim's seem resistant to seeing themselves in this other family even though. Like you were saying, they had a very similar financial problem and were taken advantage of a similar way and another example of where again it was just not something that had jumped out to me on previous viewings where it's the senior it's just Mr Kim and the housekeeper's husband in the basement and Mr Kim is kind of disgusted by the basement and is at asks basically, how can you live here like how can you live like this and then the husband replies by saying like well, it's not that dissimilar from. He doesn't know that he's saying it's not that dissimilar from your own apartment but that's essentially what he's saying like we're not that different at all the same and then to see the environmental differences of. And this is something we see in the states all the time of how something like a rainstorm can seem so like nothing to a rich family and they're kind of like, oh, the weather sucks. But let's finger each other in our sons out in his tank. Blah Blah Blah. fingering each other and then. People's homes are being destroyed. A frontline community that the kids are a part of. Their whole life is being destroyed, and then you've got these rich people fingering each other on a hill and exactly yeah and it was so that I mean that's seeing of the rainstorm and the Father Daughter Son walking you know all the way home through the rain and the coming down that huge. You know that was metaphorical right I mean. You have this rock shaped like mountains you know, and it's like, how do you get there but it all does come down like you know you just follow them going down down down that living is this huge metaphor of the basement every everybody all the poor live in a basement. And all that rain and shit goes down there all the rich people's Shit goes down there, and that's in their clothes that's in their stuff, and that's the smell that comes wafting out of them when they come and try to meet with people in society you know, I think the house structure that that that big scene with the stairs going down to their little town there I think that is just the this visual metaphor of class infrastructure. And that mobility going upwards as so impossibly difficult and high, and how does one do that? It's like barely it's barely doable and then. And then like it's like, no, it's like everybody just replaces one another shoes ray it's like the Kim family kicked out everybody that was working for the parks. And then even even the guy that was hiding in the basement contentedly, right I. Mean I just feel like I'm just of this world now it's like as if I was born here, it's like it's like as if I got married here is I live here right? That's what the housekeeper's husband says, and it's like even that position is replaced by Mister Kennedy Right? Like they really took over that house like fully and. Even. Like. The the the Motif of the parasite is like it's like, what else can they do? You know in order to survive? It's like they have to lie. They have to steal the have sneak out at night and tried to steal some fruit and take it back down to the basement so they could eat US survive. You know what else can they do? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Certainly no one else is making space for them to exist. So. It's just a matter of taking someone else down to take up where they are. It's just yeah. I also like how like we use the audience don't really even call into question like well wouldn't the park family like what if they were to meet like Mr Kim spouse but like because the park family is so just consumed by themselves and don't they don't think about people lower class than them you would just. Imagine that Mr Park would never ask Mr Kim about his wife or his children or late bothered to learn anything about them. Yeah. Because they're far too self absorbed. Exactly. Yeah. Like when Mr Kim as he's driving Mr Parker and when whenever he turns around to say something you know and they almost get into an accident at one point like Mr Park, there's just keep your eye on the road like turn around right. You're supposed to face that way not back towards me here, crossing the line crossing that offense with so much You know it's so interesting and like just to talk a little bit more about the basement like this is something I've been thinking about a long time and there's this. Short story. That's very famous and Korea called wings. It's written by modernist call hung. And It's a story about a man who is living in a room that is it's like in the farthest back of the House and then there's this partition and then beyond the partition is the wife's room. And in order to access his room, you have to go through the wife's room, right so this man is essentially stuck right and the wife is like the gatekeeper and the man is like unemployed jobless he barely eats barely gets any sunlight whatever he does in that room is only permissible if the wife allows them to and the wife is a prostitute. So she works in that other room and the man says in this other room, he's like I'm very content with living here and he felt like that was very present in the basement scene with the housekeeper's husband. And and hung wrote that story when Korea was occupied by Japan right and it's like when you're colonized, right, let's say you're colonized by another imperial country or if you're colonized by capitalism whatever it is, and you become content and living there and you don't have any desire to be mobile whatever get out. then. It's like what happens. Right and I thought that was very much a theme and that yeah. That story I don't think anybody does that was just my reading of it I need to write about for some asshole does. Well, because the housekeeper's husband, he worships Mr. Park. He like almost looks at him as a god of sorts and I feel like that's also very I guess just kind of allegorical of the way society teaches people you need to respect these rich people you need to respect the people with the rich jobs and and but if you encounter them, they're like who the fuck are you right? They don't smell I don't like you -actly. Yeah. It's like, do you know me right right and he's like he's like subservient like. ritualistically whenever when when anybody else walks up those stairs, those lights don't go on. It's only when Mr Park goes up those stairs than the lights go on like that and it's like when the housekeepers husband's down there he goes into this like militaristic mode like he saluting him right? Right. And I feel again, there is at. This colonial commentary again, Lake Lot of Koreans before division were recruited by the Japanese for World War One and World War Two. You know a lot of those kamikaze pilots were Koreans who were unwilling to kill themselves. Okay. By crash landing onto other countries so Yeah there's that huge huge US military presence in Korea and all over the world. Actually there's like over eighty countries with US military presence. Yeah and Yeah. I think I think a lot of that is is in there yeah, and that's another example two of Mr Kim kind of. Having a similar trait to the housekeeper's husband He. Probably wouldn't want to admit that there's I. Think I can think of two examples where Mr Kim specifically there's one when they're drinking beer and the basement after they start getting paid by the parks and he's like, let's poor went out for Mister Park like it's so good of him to give this to us even though he doesn't always giving it to us and then again when he's in the basement at the end of the movie he I mean he's murdered Mr Park, but he like apologizes. More. Sure. All the time and remorseful and it's still like Mr, Park even at his time of death didn't know who he was really i. mean he just knew the facade that he was presenting to survive right? Right right? Yeah. We got to take another quick break, but then we'll come right back for more discussion. Hello everybody Jamie from the Bechtel cast here to talk about one of my favorite fashion companies of all time. 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This show is about inspirational thinkers, scientists and artists who are passing their expertise onto us in less than an hour. We've already learned about so much together and I cannot wait for what's next. May. CO-HOST INVESTI engineer back with brand new episodes every Wednesday. I up. All activist and bestselling author of the HICCUP UNTAMED? She's teaching us how to embrace our most authentic selves. Listen to teach me something new on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I want to bring us something that I. Thought was funny and didn't really know how to fully articulate until I read the interview with wondering Ho where he says there's no heroes and there's no villains intentionally. A really challenging read four rich people and people who are inclined to be like but the rich people were nice. and. I want I wanted to shout out dogs. I. Wanted to shout out in a negative way comedian Neal Brennan who famously could not figure out that the parasite it was. I remember there was like a big everyone was like dumping on him on twitter this happened and he for some reason, did not delete the tweets but this is back in February this year. He tweeted is it too early to say the central metaphor parasite didn't actually work who is the Paris? Say the richer the poor with that in mind explain the third act to me like he just. It was really listening to this podcast. Neal Brennan. He would never. But he's problematic. Yeah he's the worst I don't like his general. Outlook on gender. He yeah his his house look I just I've yet to see he is such a victim right? As we've seen three Mike's. Thought it was so interesting how lake nobody gave Neal Brennan any shit for doing three Mike's which was like. A. Third of it was just like this you know his him groveling on stage of his victimhood and then when Hannah gadsby she did her thing everybody was so up in arms about whether or not this is comedy full. Time you're dumping on her yeah. Yeah, and it's like Why don't you start with Neal Brennan Special, which came out before Monette. And then question to get if you want to be here New York Times wrote. His most recent fuck up was immediately defending KRISTA Leah but. Oh My. Oh which really slept his not understanding parasite even one percent. Hug. I remember that Neal Brennan insisted that twitter explain to him. It's funny. He's too rich. The rich people were Nice. So what's the problem? Let's like? And that's kind of the brilliance of this movie is like there. The problem is looming over them, but it's not personified. Grace and Jamie to people have mentioned the idea of the plan and the master plan that the Kim family. Have crafted are trying to follow and this is a huge motif. Throughout the movie, We talked about this a little bit on our recent, set it off episode where in that movie different characters discuss having a plan for the future and what's your five year plan and stuff like that and the you know upper class characters like well yes. Of course I have a plan in its this and then the lower income characters are always like I'm just trying to survive one day. At a time and just the idea of like having a plan is such a like middle or upper middle class or wealthy privileged thing to be able to have an in this gets explored quite a bit in parasite where they form this plan to infiltrate the park family and to end up working for them. It works for a very short amount of time. But then like shit hits the fan even like when. The. Former housekeeper shows up on the doorstep like Q. is like this isn't part of the plan. We don't know what to do. This isn't this unexpected. This is not part of our plan, and then Mr. Kim gives this really great monologue after their apartment has been flooded in there like having to spend the night in a gym he says you know what kind of plan never fails no plan at. All. If you make a plan life never works out that way. That's why people shouldn't make plans with no plan. Nothing can go wrong and if something spins out of control, it doesn't matter none of it fucking matters because yeah. Like people from a lower socio economic class simply don't have the resources and the privilege to form and execute plans that actually ever work, and then the movie ends with. Cuba. Being like. Here's my plan I'm going to get a job I'm going to go to that university I'm going to you know have a career I'm GonNa make a bunch of money, and then I'm going to buy this house, and then you know dad you're gonNA come out of hiding and we're all going to reunite, but it all plays out again is a flash forward. It's like a dream sequence more than anything 'cause then it cuts back to q in the in his basement level apartment it's a fantasy it's completely a fantasy. There is no way he's going to get out of the way he suffered a huge brain injury you know. I. Mean. He's he's a disabled man and he has a record You know he has a criminal record and I mean having a criminal record in Korea's also like a huge damning fate you know Being a disabled person. Huge damning thing he actually Puno does play with themes like that like criminality and disability in his other films. I would really strongly recommend memories of murder by the way I would say all of his films. That's his best work. Okay. I haven't seen that one. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Where did you see that I'm just curious I had to find a rip of IT Online? Yeah. There's IT's some it's not available anywhere. Yeah. It's such a good movie. Will the man who please Mr Kim is also But yet, anyway, there's always somebody with disability in like his movies and I think that's their intentionally he is like. Joe Is making a commentary about South Korea not making it easy for people with disabilities to survive like live among everybody. AMMONIA ASLI in society there was a a read of the plan theme that I really liked was from that same vulture profile. It was for I. Guess for follow up of that profile by a writer and e Alex Cheung who is a great? Yes. We we've quoted him before radical. Alex John stamos Leslie Yeah Okay. So e Alex Cheung, we have quoted a number of times. He writes most of the major profiles for New York magazine and he's just a fucking incredible writer, but he argues in the follow up to profile that hope is the emotional. So according to hope is the emotional parasite and the film the thing that keeps us going, but sucks are Mero dry. So the whatever the true parasite being discussed because I feel like the initial wave of reviews and discussion about this film, there was a lot of. Who was the parasite? Who Am the parasite? Neal Brennan who what is apparently was like what they didn't tell me who the parasite wasn't my third act but people are so basic Yeah. I mean it's even it's like I mean whether this is a very simple things are spoon fed to them. They want somebody to say. I am the parasite all. Got Swipe the titles Paris-i I'm the devil, Wears Prada I am the parasite. Everyone wants that Spartak has moment like that's. Exactly. I am a demon prince. I'm quoting I. Frankenstein now I am I Frankenstein. He does say that though. On saying he basically does but but I do I mean that is I think the most distinct read of what if there is a parasite that it's it's you. Desire to want to keep trying to make a plan in spite of all evidence to the contrary, which is kind of what capitalism encourages you to do is like Oh who cares how many times this dream kicks you in the face and tells you to fuck off and tells you you smell tells you? Just, works against you. In every way just bootstrap get back up try again you've got this American capitalist Christian mentality. Pay Your dues. Yes. I get up keep going and it's like. What does that say like if you keep doing something over and over again, expecting a different result every time you're psychopath right? The true definition everybody in a capital society. That's literally everybody. But. With the plant thing though I think Alex is really so beautiful. It's like an inverse shawshank redemption. In Freeman. Is like hope kills. Like hope drives a man crazy and then like the guy he's like, you know he writes. A letter I hope is a beautiful thing or And it's like. No. It does it. It makes you it will destroy you. Destroy. Everything inside of you your family everything you love. But Yeah I think that's a really lovely reading to say that hope is the parasite for sure. I. Mean his plan at the end that I mean in a way like hopes that. Even. Though in your heart of heart of heart of hearts, you're like, this is not gonNa fucking happen but like I could see how that would be necessary to his continuing to. Live is like hoping that things will change are hoping that this might be attainable even though we watching it know that. It is deeply unlikely that that will ever happen. Right it's like everybody has this inner will to live for some reason even the guy in the basement with who has literally no life no sunlight no netflix you know how does he pass the time? Right and it's like he still living still stealing food and living he's going on. Oh and in the Mr Kim's monologue which I love that monologue. Yeah and you you read it beautifully but he does also say. You know when you're making these plans like even if you don't even if it's not in your plan in the spur of the moment like you might kill. Aman. You might see a country he says those things. I think that's very important because you know again like Korea as a colony. Had to do those very things you know like a lot of people had to. In order to keep their wealth or attain wealth, they had to sell their country out and. Align with the Japanese imperial forces a lot of people had to do that, and then when North and south was divided a lot of South Koreans had to go into hiding because they were like, well, you were you you were a traitor to your country. You know there was a lot of that too but a lot of the people continue to retain their wealth I need. That's where Samson comes from Yeah. You have a lot of that lot of murdering especially during the Korean War when when you know it's like you couldn't tell who is communist who is not You know how can you tell that there's no marker of communism per se lot of innocent people lost their lives because of this whole this paranoia which comes from McCarthyism you know. It's a it's a constructive paranoia that was injected into other countries. Paranoia over the COMMIE and a lot of innocent people lost their lives and there's actually a movie that was on Chiduo Island, which is like an just off the coast of south. Korea. It's belongs to South Korea. It's like there in Ireland. So their languages like their dialect is also very unique to. You but a lot of innocent people lost their lives on that island during the Korean War like people showed up and they were like, are you a communist like what's a communist? GonNa get shot you know what I mean it was literally like that. You know and win Americans were there you know in in Korea bombing the shit out of Korea. They couldn't tell who was North Korean who is a South Korean right? They just simply couldn't how could you tell you know? And that's where the word Google comes from. You know a lot of these derogatory racially and ethnically derogatory terms come from military speak military language because you have to create an enemy right and you have to make them consciously up to lower them in your brain right the dehumanize them in order to justify killing them actually. Yes. So this rational, this hyper rationalizing of killing a man of selling out your country, it's also kind of this capitals motif. Hyper hyper rationalizing is done in capitalist. System, this happens a lot. It's like, Oh, like I will lose thirty five pounds in a month because I will fit into that dress for that film role because they told me too because it means wealth fame I will do it. Because I'm not I'm not selling my soul out I'm not disrespecting my body I'm doing it for a job I'm doing it for money which I will give to my family to. Write a hyper rationalizing all under. including. The Kim family including the park family everybody Well, even yet in the way that the Kim family needs to lower family very similar to themselves in order to rationalize killing them like. Even. Like in when they first encounter the housekeeper and her husband in the basement and the housekeeper is pleading with the Kim Sys Command sister, we have a sisterhood we're we're in we're of the same ilk we are in the same class and and and Mrs Kim is like, no, we're not like fuck you and then as soon as the tables turn, she has to take the exact same approach would be like you sister come on and it's just like everybody's replaceable. Everybody's replaceable in capitalist machine and on the other end of that where. The Kim family has to you know bullshit to survive. So often so much and they have to do it with people who are in there who are also poor, and then they have to do it with the park family where. I mean like some of the funniest moments in this movie just involved how easily the park family is able to be convinced that something is luxury as top of the line because of how it rained to them how it's presented to them where. The Qizheng scene where she's art therapist and she's just like spoiling bullshit and she says later Google. Art Therapy and like ad-libbed the rest. But she just. The word schizophrenia. Yeah. The Schizophrenia Zone I'm like. Well, that's not good. Yeah she just. Not a doctor just made it up and again I think it's because she's English you know like these English words Make it sound like ki-jong knows what she's talking about and so Mrs Park is just like okay. Mrs Park is interesting too as a character would say, Yo, she's really interesting I had never I. Guess this is the closest I've ever looked at her character specifically because I was curious I mean the park family represents a lot of. ELITISM and a lot of rich people stuff right but but it feels like she really encapsulates the ignorance of a rich family where I mean it's mentioned in that scene. We talked about that. She's so nice and she's and. Yeah, yeah, that deep naivety that she will I mean the we hear her described as young in simple before we ever meet her by men in a scene where they are I mean we haven't even talked about the relationship with teenager yet, but we'll get there. I mean it's like I. Feel like it's clear to the viewer that she thinks that she's doing the right thing she is trying to be a good mother. She is trying to be a good wife, but it's not what she's thinking about. That's the problem. It's what she is not in thinking about defines her like and makes her look bad. She's not thinking about the people around her. She's not thinking about her employees she doesn't I mean her and Mr Park. Don't ever ask the Kim's anything about themselves, which is part of the reason is. So much is because the parks don't care who they are or what their background is. They just need the right pitch of like the Elitism we talked about before. You know I have studied abroad. I've done this I've done that and they're like, okay great. I will believe whatever you say good enough and I don't want to hear anything else. Might you ever again right stop talking to me? Yeah. That's a good point like when Mr Kin Guests Mr Park the care card. Mrs Park calls the cares phone number. Yeah, and then kee-chung picks up the phone and pretends to be that gatekeeper the manager here she's like asking for all these documents. To Your House. Social Security number and she like she knows the parts inside out. All of their information down missiles park is just like, okay. You need the title to my house fine makes sense. Makes Sense to me, and she's like so desperate, you could see the Meson centers like she's pulling out the dishwasher that's over packed like you should never Luna dishwasher like that. And that, and then it's like you know she's clearly suffering like Mr Park says, it's like my wife sucks at household duties no and. She just desperate to stop doing that lake she wants to sit out on on her in her garden on her patio and take a nap when we that's how we first encounter rate and. Just to not do those things, she'll. She'll give away the house. All of this all that information. No problem. Oh. She thinks housework is beneath her. She never got good at it because she's never had to do it. Yeah. Usually. It's been spoon fed silver spoon like what do you mean I have to do these things just make the leading do and in the same way Mr and Mrs Parker able to be convinced the absolute worst of people that they find lesser than them and that's part of the reason the Kim's are able to get their jobs is because immediately I mean this was another thing I hadn't really considered super carefully because the scene is pretty funny how grossed out Mr Mrs Parker by finding underwear in the car and when she touches her face with the gloves and then You just touch those underwear. This movie is very funny but subtexts to that scene is they jump from finding a pair like a pair of underwear in the back of a car to our driver who has far less money than us is probably addicted to drugs and is probably doing this and and the Kim's are i. mean they know that these rich people have all these preconceptions of what poor people are like and you just give them the smallest scrap of anything. They're gonNA catastrophes it into this completely false narrative and and fire someone instead of just instead of I mean that whole thing is asking instead of. asking. One thing it's like they don't want to deal with any kind of discomfort including an uncomfortable conversation right at the end. The fucked up thing is they don't give them a chance to explain or possibly improve you fuck up once you're out and they don't tell you why they're outing you. That's that's a constant thing that comes up with every single person that's fired they never they never. They're always like you know I'm not gonNA say like that I found. A bloody tissue and a thing I'll just make up something and ask her to leave vague. Some vague. With the with the driver to. Something Day I'm not GonNa talk to him about like whether or not yes. SEX WITH A. A Hooker, who's on drugs in the back seat of my car I'm not GonNa ask that I'm just GonNa. Maybe just make some make up some excuse afire. Again comes you know ties into this Motif of social mobility being impossible. If somebody fires you without cause without explaining to you why without having a conversation, it's an injustice. And they can't this couple of can't even be straight with each other like they can't. They can't. She harbors secrets. Yeah. Yeah. Like she she does not tell Mr Park why she's fired the housekeeper like there's just and he doesn't ask either. No, he's just like with her my wife won't explain won't tell me but it's fine simply living a lie. They really are. A convenient lie. Yeah. So I I wanted to about Mr Kim and cues relationship even though I mean we kind of reference often like how father son relationships are usually given more narrative wait in movies in general than mother son mother daughter, whatever it is. But even though that is true of this movie I, really really appreciate how emotionally open this father son relationship is. That's usually the friction in a father son relationship is like, but we just can't talk to each other men can't express themselves but I mean, from the jump Mr Kim is so a few sieve with his praise and how proud he is of both of his kids. where I went when Qizheng forges the document, he's like, wow, you're a genius. You did it. You're amazing and when Q. Discusses his first plan at the beginning of the movie when he's going off to the park house and he's like I'm going to go to college and you know this is temporary and then I'm going to do this this and this and Mr Kim is thrill he's like I'm so proud of you. That's amazing. Good job and I I really appreciated seeing a father son relationship where the conflict is not that they are being dishonest or not emotionally open with each other. It's like you don't see that very much Yeah. They're they are very open as a family. I noticed that too like the children Kinda like cursing allot in front of. Their parents like they swear a lot with see she bought over and over again like casually I was just like, whoa like what does that mean she by means like fuck? It's like a swear word they say by all the time and I was just like I couldn't speak that way in front of my parents I curse but in English couldn't person Korean in front of them like that's just like another level of. I don't know like rebellion and trust that I just simply don't have in me I. Guess. But, yeah they're they're quite open and it's like they're very tightly knit because they're co dependent on one another. And it's like you see a lot of that among lower income communities and families like you have to depend on one another like a far will not function without having twelve children. You know what I mean you need to have this twelve kids in order for the farm to really work so. Yeah, it's definitely visible. Especially where the parks I mean with their children as well. There's just there's only walls and kind of seeing how those walls are kind of privilege in. The even though you can tell I mean the park's daughter is kind of suffering from the lack of communication and attention that her parents will give her. They clearly think that their son is hot shit and there's a favouritism. Yeah. Definitely and I mean I think Mrs Park goes kind of out of her way to like. I. Don't think my daughter is very smart but we'll just kind of says that I missed that part she mentioned that like she's she's struggling in school where she's kind of saying like, Oh my son made a drawing and he's a genius. She's like my daughter like it just her if she says something like regardless of her grades implying that she doesn't get good grades despite her having this intensive tutoring. which kind of transition into talking about Q. and their daughter as well. But I mean it's like she's she's she definitely has some emotional suffering going that I mean, if he doesn't really have full. Neglected by. Family the son absorbs everything not only because of this past trauma that he has but also because of this potential genius whatever he has like. The father obviously favors when he comes home, he shouts you know won't calls the Son. Daughter you know it's very obvious like who is the? Like the centerpiece of this household and it's definitely the sun and she's neglected. And when she gets some attention from her male tutor, who is she is underage and he is in his twenties. It's completely inappropriate. Yeah. She does it and it's like. Of course, she did it with the other guy right with me help the front right it's like and we want to be really careful about how this is framed. You know she's a child she is not to blame here. It's the adult. It's cue who is seeing how she's neglected. `vulnerability and even if his intentions aren't nefarious doesn't matter it's still very wrong. It's still predatory. Exactly. It's exactly what Kristalina did to all those girls. Yeah. God Damn. I knew. His way into. And then Neal Brennan. Chris Delia good. He's good. He's a boy I. R- relationship that's like I think one of the it's interesting though because it You mentioned this a bit ago the the kind of traditional lifting yourself out of poverty narrative in movies tends to be you know like an attractive person from a higher class pays you mind and all of a sudden you're lifted and everything is so easy which is kind of becomes overtime cues. Original plan is he does seem to like her we think it's not. Like a complete falsehood even though it is deeply I, mean he should not be pursuing this child right but but it does seem like that is a part of the original plan of like, Oh, this girl likes me. So I'm going to I mean similar he kind of just co-ops men's original plan, which is waited until she leaves diversity, right? So she goes to. College. And then Mary into this family and be set for life in the way the exactly I mean I guess it's it's a bit of it is this aversion in that not only? Is it kind of gender swapped? It also doesn't work and shouldn't work right. I mean you feel for her because it's like she? The kids are like not they're not necessarily doing anything wrong they're yeah. They're just children. He shouldn't have pursued a fifteen year old you know. Right. And I don't know what the movie is trying to say exactly with this predatory relationship I don't know if it's like. Again like the desperation of poverty and like here's what you might stoop to to try to get out of poverty. You know like being a Predator or being a murderer. and. I don't think this movie is saying that like if you're poor, you're going to be driven to murder and predatory. And that's a blanket statement across the board. The movie isn't saying that it's a it's an explanation of the motives yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen a few the few. Missed misinterpretation or not misinterpret I mean no interval days but basically just saying like. there there was an article in the Guardian that basically makes the argument of like. Well, doesn't this movie just say that if poor people have access to a rich person's lifestyle that they will then murder and prey on people but I don't think that that's what this movie is really saying at all and I mean even the criticism that I've seen. This is a piece I don't know I just disagree with this writers Statement Her News Hana Hyun and this was a piece that was in the Guardian in February of this year but her argument which I understand but she's she's basically like kind of dumping on the Kim's for the second the parks leave they start drinking and like having fun which first of all this family does not get to fucking have find and. I don't know what bothers me about that read of their behavior is it completely lines up with the no plan mentality that this family you know generally has to thrive on of like if not. Now, when are they going to get the chance to drink all this overpriced like ridiculous alcohol and eat and have fun and talk with each other and like. Yeah. Yeah. The rich families on vacation why shouldn't the? The poor family also go on vacation right Waiting to themselves. Yeah. Yeah. does anyone have any final thoughts about the film I mean we haven't necessarily discussed the representation of gender that much. But also like I didn't even know what to say about it aside from just like there's gender parity in the cast of characters between men and women. The female characters are all actively participating in the story in meaningful ways. There's a few kind of like slightly gendered things that I notice where it's like, oh, well, like of three of the four major female characters in the movie. One of the main things we know about them is how good or bad they are at domestic housework. But I mean like it's kind of the men that are discussing that and it's like well, what do they care about these characters and then it's the first thing they think to discuss. So right? I'm like I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. Yeah. It didn't like. Don't me too much Yeah. I he's a like of the Korean like tours, the male tours that are heralded by can and. All these other top tier, one film festivals around the world. Like of the Tamer. These other filmmakers Korean tours are very misogynistic. Of being one of them with old boy and all that Shit but I I have a lot of admiration and respect for he's not necessarily my favorite Korean filmmaker. But I think he tries to strike a balance in his movies and he casts really good people like just quick. Think he did have another underage teenage girl having sex with an older man in his two thousand film mother. So this is like this is the thing that comes up and I just wish. He wouldn't fetish. Is that too much? Yeah. Yeah. He had to. He has two short films that are really excellent once called influenza and its again that's like another class commentary of society and shaking Tokyo with part of an omnibus is a really really good short film that's set in Japan and it's got pizza boxes with this he gordy character, which is really interesting. So I would recommend those two short films by go. Yeah. We'll check this out. Yeah. Check them out. One thing that I thought was kind of funny that I didn't notice that I thought it was funny that the only like heralded rich person above criticism in this movie, the architect and architect. Here which I just like. Okay. You know. Yeah. But he does have a tate like a smudge of you know because he built these he built this home with this bunker that was made for rich people to survive if there was an attack from. North. Korea more to escape creditors like debt collectors and what it means was a haven that he created for the elite class to get away. And he never told the parks about it because he was ashamed of it, and this is what the housekeeper mentioned. Right I thought that was fascinating. Yeah I it's. That that that character was saying and it does seem like his father was He was a graphic and industrial designers that means like it might that might be him discussing his father a little bit who knows and then the last thing. I. Wanted to bring up just because it's like a very. It also connects to something that's going on a lot in states right now is kind of the the Wi Fi motif I guess you could call it, but it's just reference. It's the first time I've seen Wi fi access treated seriously and terms. Of It being a real problem if you don't have access to Wifi were it seems like it. I mean, I've just heard that problems dismissed so many times if like you don't need a computer like you know that's a privilege not a but at this point, that is absolutely not true there I mean right now where are so many students that are attending school digitally, there is a whole story the day we recorded this about students having like sitting outside of Taco bells to have access to Wi fi in order to Wifi goes to school. Didn't have a quiet room so that they can have classes live digitally to study. WIFI access even the strength of your Wifi. Not only the laptops and tablets, but the strength, and then this other undergird of like, where does all this e-waste go? You Know Lake US having Wifi who does that hurt it? What country sure all of that is is actually Topi, Miller is a really good scholar. You guys can look into if you want to learn more about eighty waste and global inequality cool isn't thanks for that. Well does parasite pass the Bechtel Test That's the real question. That's the most important questions class commentary who cares but dactyl does. It does. It does just barely There are some discussions where it's I. Mean we can pick it apart all day. I don't think it's super relevant to this specific movie even. There are some conversations between women were a man as an explicitly mentioned, but he is kind of like the underlying theme either way. Yup It passes. and. Even. But like you know it's like when it comes to that sex scene when he's like fingering her nipple and she's like Oh clockwise I'm like honestly a guy fingering does nothing for me. I. Understand I understand sexualities complex, but come on Mrs. Park. Like really you know like you want him down in between your legs. In your Bush, like his face in your Bush like don't lie, stop lying to clockwise counter it. Never been a directional nipple issue That was never the problem it was just like stop it. You know just Like. Like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With that was barely passes. Like Bush doesn't know female sexuality Edano right I mean. And it would pass more handily if he had given more significance to the mother daughter relationship in the Kim family. Yes or in the park family which he really doesn't and whether or not. This is a deliberate decision made or whether he's just kind of not equipped as a writer to be able to write those relationships. Yeah. It would have been nice to see a little more between especially in the Kim family. Yeah. But like with all the women, they were all about like their men you know the housekeeper everything was about lake. You know taking care of that husband in the basement with the Mrs Parker it was all about taking care of her quote unquote six son. And her and her husband not her daughter right her daughter and with Mrs Kim Jong It was again it was about like key was plan. Right. So yeah I in that sense it's somewhat problematic but yeah, just barely passes. Yeah. Sure. Well, that brings us to our our nipple scaled the Bechtel Nipple scale which is speaking of clockwise. Clockwise. Today Lockwood Clockwise Nipple yes. In, which we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples just examining it from an intersectional Feminist Lens. I don't know what to do with this money really because again, there wasn't much of a conversation to be had necessarily specific to gender I mean obviously, the class component is the far bigger conversation surrounding this movie So I guess I would. I would give it like a thirty three year three and a half again I think different female characters could have had more agency or could have been given more focus I think that the the relationship between you and the young daughter was wide is it they're not really sure what the function of that is or there's like there was another way to make that point that was e right? Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I'll give it as much as I love this movie and as much as like looking at it from a screenwriting point of view I'm just like loss chef's kiss. And I think it is an effective class commentary that explores a lot of really interesting themes in a way that we haven't necessarily seen explored in that way before of a lot of class commentary movies So I appreciated that but. I guess from a more gender perspective I'm like it's could do better. So three Nipples three clockwise nipples. Give one to each of the little dogs whose ends I. Forget I think one was like food one. I don't remember them was definitely a barrier. So each dog. Goodness. Nipple. Yup. I'll go for a three as well. Again, it's like in terms of how much I enjoy and appreciate this movie. It's a million nipples in terms of class commentary it's a million nipples. But yeah, from it from a gender perspective I'll go three and I also think on top of what we're talking about in terms of the predatory relationship and how the parks daughter is kind of. sidelined, and ignored and mistreated in a way that you see. But isn't really. In any meaningful way when there is space for that and just as much as there was space for a relationship between the Kim women like there there was space for that. That would have uplifted the rest of the movie and I also Well, I don't know maybe this is like but I I was thinking a little bit I I I feel like. It is so devastating to lose Qizheng at the end of this movie yet. Yes John was great. Yeah. But I think that that impact would have hit even harder if we had had more time with her and if we had gotten to know her more outside of her relationship with her father and her brother, which is what we see more of them we don't I mean. But again, it's like that we we do know things about her. We know that she is very talented. We know that she's really smart. Queer icon now. She she. Gay. Men Love. Her. She's she's fucking awesome but I do I think that if we had had more time with her especially her and her mother. Yeah I. Don't I don't know I understand why you know a rich had to die a poor had to die in the ending completely works and make sense but. I was sorry to see her go to Yeah. Of the of the four as well. It's like she had I know she was just awesome yeah yeah. So I'll I'll go with three, four, a parasite and let's see. I. Guess I will give to to ki-jong. Rust in power and I will give one to the housekeeper who didn't do anything wrong. I felt so bad for her. She's off and that actresses. Amazing. She's. yeah I I would give it a to five. In terms of gender because again, like I saw like a lot of the focus was you know the women's focus was on men oftentimes. More. So than anything else and Yeah I, I think still can do a little bit more when it comes to. Exhibiting gender equality or giving women a little bit more substance in in his screen place. Yeah. His first film barking dogs never bite with like she has a very interesting role like she's very much a strong role in there and I would like to see him kind of go back to more of that. Yeah. Cool off to check that one out too. Well grace so much for being here. This was incredible for having me. I. Hope. Korean pronunciations did not. Ruin you. Stop that like that could so much burden on us. We're just like we kind of don't care. It's like you guys care more than we do an good to noting that on us as like it can get annoying. Sometimes it's like within this frame too much of that is like you could just start with it and then stop saying it for the rest of the thing you know what I mean. I don't have to apologize every single time you know as like it's fine. It's like I said, it's no big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. That's a good learning moment for us and I'm sure some of our listeners will find that helpful as well. And thank you so much for joining us for being here Where can people check out your stuff check out your writing, follow you online. Yeah So my handle is h J. IT'S A S C H J y you could find that on instagram twitter. TIKTOK, it's also my website. Yeah and you know I post show updates there. Sometimes. I. Do Videos via please follow me I would really appreciate it. Awesome you. This is really fun. Thank you. Come back anytime. I would love to come back. Thanks. Of course, we'll have you back soon. Yeah and you can follow us on social media at Bechtel cast. You can subscribe to our Patriot Aka matriarch its patron dot com slash Bechtel Cast Yep and it gets you to bonus episodes every month plus access to the entire back catalogue just like whereas like seventy eighty episodes at this place some seventy s yeah. This show has been on for seventy five. Millions. Still, going strong. Still. So many movies left to cover. Yeah and then our T. public store where you can all of our merch t public dot com slash the Bechtel cast just had to end on a little bit of capitalism for you at the end of our parasite ups ever like also I armored. Buyer stuff give us money subscribe to our Patriae on. But yeah, I mean do what you can to help out your fellow human being. That's what will end on. This is Danny Shapiro host family secrets. Welcome to our fourth season family secrets. It seems just about every family has them. Some secrets are of small and insignificant, and some are shocking and massive. When they come out our new knowledge has the power to change our lives join me an hour millions of listeners as we dive deep into the story of this new seasons. Amazing guests. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio APP wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Welcome to teach me something new podcast from iheartradio. In Britain, Co on your host Brett Martin. I'm an entrepreneur CEO a mom and I'm curious about a lot of things we've already learned so much together and I can't wait for what's next my co host and best he and I are back with brand new episodes. Every Wednesday listen to teach me something new on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Mr. Kim South Korea United States Kevin it Kim family Mrs Park Mr Kim Jessica Alison Bechtel Mrs Park Jamie Loftus Japan apple Mrs Kim Right Caitlin Dante Korean Media Asian American Hi Netflix Super Yawkey Judy greer Mrs Kim
French Trump Weekly Press Conference May, 8 2020

Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone

09:26 min | 1 year ago

French Trump Weekly Press Conference May, 8 2020

"And now we take you live to French. Trump's weekly press conference Afri- trump. I am here to begins the French president. Don't press conference wrongs. I will take your questions now searching. Thank you emmett manning. New York used in it. Yes you keep saying that. The medical equipment stockpile shelves were bare because of the last administration. But you've been president for three years. Should you have done anything about that? I am in so much going on. You know we've been putting in tennis. Carts here at the white does because Millennia was to play tennis and we hope also to hide rudy. Giuliani's buddy under more. But I don't really play tennis so I've been taking less songs and I spent hours hitting a tennis ball against the White House. Sometimes Stephen Miller comes out into. Could you stop set? I am trying to figure out how to limit people of color from our country and ease hard to sync with with you banging ball or Bimbo hittings. I am trying to thank to keep you out of Zeus Cow. And You keep hitting so. I've been there a busy time for medical supplies. Obama should have done it next question. Next question you Mr President. Thank you thank you best bargain with. Tmz essentially in parts of news outlet. Yes babs good. Go ahead with your young. Why were you even considering winding down? The Corona Virus Task Force when the numbers of infections and deaths have continued to grow and most of the country. Babs newt realize a populaires. Each task force is more popular. Zinzan Pinto's I'm taking them on tour. I'm getting matching jackets. And giving the barracks the Harine should have known. Better take your lack you that you would love every sector. I do and you do and you do next question next question. John Mr President Mr Kim. Thank you a J Jones from Detroit. Free press you visited a mass factor in Arizona. This but you didn't wear a mass why I have breath. I breathe into a mask and owners trapped in a smell. It it is disgusting. I could finish very strongly right there into mask factory. I didn't even think about putrid smell next question next question. Thank you Mr President Tony. Romo from ABC News. We're all extra Tony Romo. Yes yes go ahead. Thank you Mr President. Why did you choose to be interviewed for Fox News at the Lincoln Memorial because they have disclosed the location of Z Robert Statue? So Lincoln was my sloppy sick homes. I didn't want to bring it up in front of his statue but Lincoln was wrong about some much. A house divided cannot stand divided this country and milestones juice find infect Malawian. I don't even sleep in bed and not so much as a creek in Jif Noor. We do have some things in common again. Nah He for example is on and I have left Americans with early. Peres next question next. Yes yes front rows you thank you. Is it true that you are planning on spending additional half a billion dollars to have the border wall painted black and that you've been in these talks as recently as a month ago in the midst of this pandemic with soaring death and infection rates and hardworking Americans being thrown out of work and without yet having national testing system which your own medical advisers tell? You is a critical component to defeating the virus. We wanted look nice. Besides it will get married. Something to do makes it. Well Different Papa. Eric next question Mr President you thank you Mr President J Jones again from the Detroi- and talk to you again. I missed you many of the states and cities that are reopening seem to have disregarded the White House. Cdc three-phase plan for reopening. What do you say to them? Jide men has Suzanne Collins. That is to face is right there. I. She says she wants to protect a woman's right to choose xantia votes to confound Kevin says that's to face as people want to go back to work and Mayor of Las Vegas volunteer to see if Las Vegas workers die and two allows the rest of the country to bet on it. I got a piece of that action. Tell you that judge next question. John Nice West John President Jin Hello Mr President. Thank you Tony Romo again with. Abc News turning it. Yeah it was just reported that one of your personal valets has tested positive corona virus. Will you be following the recommendation of a two week? Quarantine and self-isolation i. He's fired he's fired that Valet. I can park my car. You know what I tried to help him. I should to him. That he let teeny little manners. Run up possess which would bring back manning and also is have the hats with the latch. Use your inside of his buddy. He wouldn't do it. He's an idiot. I tried to jam with disinfectant. And he wouldn't let me he's fired. I guess word of Park my own car from now on next question Mr President Rush Us. Yes thank you Mr President Babs Barkley again with TMZ. Oh babs yes. Yes I was wondering Mr President with all due respect. You recently misspelled hamburger and we're confused by the Nobel Peace Prize and the Pulitzer Prize. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a fact checker with you before you put out information imprint? Listen carefully to what I'm going to say. Fuck you F you see K babs that I did affect check. You don't use fax. Why would have affect chicken? I would like to have a burger. They'll get you can get you a job at a meat packing plant because we need meet right now. Bob Zaps what we need. We don't in fact check cares beds you you. What with service rats babs his name down. That's BABS BABS. Be A write it down sack. Us questions. This has been a live broadcast of French. Trump's weekly press conference surveys podcast network. Hey I'm andy if you don't know me it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced over designed and out of touch. At Harry's our approach is simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars. Each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like a world class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering a one hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them and if you're not we hope you give us a try with special offer. Get Harry Starter. Set with a five Blade Razor waited handle shave gel and a travel cover offer three bucks plus free shipping just go to Harrys DOT COM and enter eight nine eight nine at checkout. 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Mr President John Mr President Mr Kim Mr President J Jones Mr President Babs Barkley President Mr President Tony Tony Romo Harry Starter tennis president Trump Babs newt White House ABC News emmett manning Lincoln Las Vegas Stephen Miller Obama
Tuesday 8 January

Monocle 24: Midori House

30:48 min | 2 years ago

Tuesday 8 January

"You're listening to Midori house. First broadcast on the eighth of January two thousand nineteen on monocle twenty four. Hello and welcome to Midori house coming to you live from studio one here in London. I'm Juliette foster and on today's show the North Korean leader, Kim Yong on is in China, fueling speculation. His visit is paving the way for a summit with America's Donald Trump. Ukraine's recently formed off the docks church has split from Russia deepening political tension between Moscow and Kiev, my guess is Bill Hilton and James waters will be discussing these and the day's other top stories, including Germany says a haunt border in Ireland is unacceptable to the European Union. How will that help Britain's to resume get her Brexit deal through parliament, plus forty winks on the job? Why are Japan's bosses encouraging this stuff to take a nap at work? That's ought to come on Midori house with me Juliette foster. Welcome to Midori house, Mike guess today on Isabel Hilton. And James Rogers is a Bill is the editor of China dialogue and James is a lecturer in international journalism studies at City University. He's also a former BBC Moscow correspondence over a warm. Welcome to both of you. Now, North Korea's leader Kim Yong on is in China, fueling speculation. His visit could be the precursor to a summit with the US President Donald Trump will the two men met for the first time last year after months of threats and name calling which ratcheted up tensions between the two countries. However, the momentum that followed the historic talks now pets have stalled with neither side giving an inch on their stated positions, Washington months. Pian young to give up his nuclear weapons of Mr Kim has called for the lifting of sanctions against his country. So could ascend summit yield a breakthrough or are you being unduly optimistic that opening gambit coast to you is about? Well, gosh. I mean, what the problem with the second summit is that so much was given away in the first one that is quite hard to see how substantial progress has is is going to be made. Because essentially Donald Trump lifted the pressure on on Kim. And now we're back at at a kind of difficult bargaining which has been the situation for in fifty years. So we have. Kim being us to give up his nuclear weapons, which he won't do because he doesn't have any security guarantee. So he's saying well, all right. But it has to be a phased withdrawal, including the complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, which the Chinese want. That's because they want the Americans off the Crean peninsula, which is going to alarm the South Koreans, and please the North Koreans and the Americans are unlikely to greet. So here we are again, we're actually down to the real problems with North Korea with all the kind of frozen fluff shouting got rid of in the first round. I guess, but the problem is that the concession that. Donald Trump gave to Kim was first of all face to face meeting with the US president, which has elevators international stoning, no end. And Secondly, he kind of blew a hole and sanctions because once he announced that you know, he was in love with with Kim Jong alone. And that it was all fine, and he'd solved the problem. Why should anyone respect sanctions in? Now, the Chinese and the Russians are asking for them, formerly to be lifted at the UN. Meanwhile, the leakage which has rented them less effective than they might be. We'll continue through China. But essentially James nothing has really changed. So what is the point of this summit apart from them as a vetting Mr Kim, perhaps even further extending that international profile where I think that's the risk. I think the international profile is a very important point because both leaders here. I mean, Donald Trump did not come into office having and the notable expertise backgrounds and international furs, and this has been a very very big policy gamble. A lot of people would say for both leaders. It's his been one which has been very very high profile on the international stage, but which is also very important for domestic considerations too. And that's why of course, as a lot of commonplace appointed out conjunction got a big boost domestically from being taken seriously from by the Americans to the extent. Having a face to face meeting with the President Donald Trump to those saying look how can solve this part of his sort of images dealmaker. But in fact, you knows Isabel has pointed out, very persuasively. There are lots of substantial issues which need a lot of behind the scenes work before before leaders can wall Salang and sign Dalen is no sign really of substantial shifts on those full. Not least for the reason. What does denuclearization the peninsula mean? So and so it's difficult. And, but of course, you know, lots of this is done for show. And if if some substance emerges from his show, then I suppose, it's welcome. But it's difficult to see what substantial progress can be made just at the moment intense of when this summit is likely to take place. No confirmation no date has yet been given. But getting the difficulties that, Mr. Trump has at home will that incentivize perhaps to to push for something to happen? Very quickly in terms of that meeting because we know that he's the master of smoke and mirrors, and if you can do anything to deflect attention from the parameters or semi paralysis of his government. Plus, these these these fights he's. Poised to have with them a largely democrat led a house of representatives. Could we actually see this happening before the summer? Well, those those problems were certainly only pileup I think until he gets government back to work. I not sure how good it would look because you know, the this suspension of government in the United States is pretty serious thing. And and it's not usually left to linger. A he said that he won't put government back to work until the Democrats agreed to fund the wall. The Democrats unlikely to do to to agree to that. So he's created a crisis. I think to go off on a summit to note to note Greer was there is no government at home wouldn't be great. It wouldn't be great. But you couldn't put it past him to do it because he he's gone in on the ticket that I'm going to upend conventionally. Well, certainly his judgment is is is is less than perfect. But I think on this in this case, it would be difficult. I think that that certainly it if government were back to work he seems to want to summit because. He does want. He he wants something to announce parade or take a picture of. And so before the summer would be would be good. But then conversely, Mr. Trump's problems at home in the appearance that he may will be on the back foot domestically. She'll resign his something which which Kim canoes during the summit to leverage it in some way to gain concessions from the Americans James will possibly which is which again, you know, raise the questions to whether Mr. Trump is actually likely to engage this extent, he's not I don't think he's likely to agree to some unless he's at least to say something, you know, this seems significant might be ill advice have another photo op in front of a possible holiday resort. I'm thinking more in terms of let's assume, for example, the crisis at home with government is resolved. You've still got the upcoming molar investigation at cetera. We don't know what moolah has found though, this plenty of speculation amount that he's also dealing with a democratic led house of representatives. So fa Kim. This is great. Surely these these extra levers that perhaps he can pull well, potentially. But says difficult to see what substantial concessions we can get further is one of those problems. I think you know, from the rest of us who aren't exactly parties, those were swollen exactly partial this. It's a sense of relief that there is talk going on to that talk is not at the moment of who's missiles are bigger more powerful and who's going to strike, I at least rhetoric has gone away as I say for two leaders for whom rhetoric complained to the media so much important part of the way, they choose to execute their officers, but it's difficult to see what substantial progress can be made. And so I suppose in that sense. The the the visit by the North Korean leader to China make. Begin to pave the way for that. This. There's some really serious diplomacy needs to be done here. Not just photo ops of two people standing on the beach again, we've done that. Absolutely. And of course, it's it's it's interesting that he's chosen China. Given China's symbolism as a very important ally of North Korea. But conversely is will could China perhaps use that relationship with North Korea to rest some concessions from Mr. Trump eighth and win? This summit. Does actually go ahead. Well, of course, at the beginning of the week, we had the next round of of of China trade talks, China US trade talks, which are mid level talks at the moment. But but that is the big and difficult dispute now China hasn't had many favors from the United States so far, but this is an issue, which can hardly be done without China. And I think that you know, if I were Xi Jinping, I would be looking to to exert my influence in this dispute as a kind of useful. Enter in in the trade talks in which the US certainly holds more cards than China to China's, you know, the third leg of this particular stool, and and not to be not to be underestimated. And what about South Korea James because the South Korea, obviously wants talks between the northbound the Americans. It's it's caught in the middle. So what leverage if any ejects this is not just over Kim himself, but also with United States given that Donald Trump does have a rather oil personality. I assume from from where South Korea's looking on. They're just hoping United States is going to make sure that they remain solid allies on the peninsula and any rapprochement between any sort of relationship building between Washington. John Young will not be the expense of South Korea security. Okay. Then what move on to another of the world, but this time in eastern Europe. Now, you cranes recently formed orthodox church has been granted its independence mocking historic split from the Russian church. Now, most go has reacted furiously to the move which has deepened a split in the worldwide off the docks church wants to what's taking Ukraine's churches out of Russia's authority. Now, the dry foreign independent church in Ukraine intensified in two thousand fourteen that's when Russia annexed Crimea and also backed separatists who seized Ukrainian territory in the countries east now James did Russia's annexation of Crimea, make an independent Ukrainian church and inevitability because this is something which has been going on for some time. So you could argue I guess to what happened in Crimea was the accelerate our finger certainly made it more likely because after that no Ukraine's entire post-soviet history has been a story to a large extensive where is going to position itself internationally for countries tragedy is that sits between eastern western could potentially have been a very lucrative business and diplomatic bridge between them, but it hasn't turned out that way, of course. But I think we if we look at the way this process has moved particularly since the autumn when it was first agreed by the achey, medical patriarch in stem bullet Ukraine could have it soon church. It's become a very very political process. The cranium president petro Pora Shankar went to stumble for the ceremony over the weekend. Christmas as well. And he was in church in Kiev yesterday. Whether declaration was on display, the the actual tax the declaration was on display. He was in church there again talking about the significance of it. And it has been very much. This is a way in which you crane tick units. Current government can break more ties with Russia ties which lasted for centuries. But I think they've got a more recent significance to it is this if you consider that for most of the last century Botha part of the Soviet Union both were officially a fierce. It was very very difficult to be religious them. The church did enjoy brief periods of tolerance. During the second war, for example, installing used it's charter Marshall morale to to fight Nazi Germany, but since the end of the Soviet Union both in Russia and Ukraine. Resurgence of religion has been a very very important part of that post comments. And so in a sense religion, the two countries it's very important spiritually of for those people who practice it. But it's also tremendously important, politically and culturally. Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. He is the head of global off the dogs church. He signed those documents in Turkey. I understand that you met him. So from your knowledge of the man sure he would have known that his action would be seen as political even if he himself signed the this paper for very, genuine, spiritual reasons, I am very interested in in this this move by. He's actually I among equals. So he's not, you know, the undisputed it's not like the poopers it were. But you know, he hoped an office which goes back to buy Sancha. It's an extraordinary survival from from the Roman empire. But but he he's very constrained figure in his own, right? Because he is the patriarch of an orthodox Christian church in Turkey's. It's it has to be located in Constantinople as it were and the Turks are not terribly friendly towards it. So they insist that the office holder has to be a born in Turkey and the pool from which this offers. Can be recruited of of Christians. Turkish born Christians is is rather small. He's chronically underfunded also, and and he for many years was looking for road. So the reason I mentioned was that for years he was involved in a series of symposia which were to do with the health of the Black Sea. Or you know, they Rick logical symposia which would were organized by very energetic Greek lady with the support of Greek shipping tycoons than we would go on these extrordinary voyages with the patriarch and talk about ecology religion and the state of of health, but but the reason one of the reasons he wanted to do that was it. It's not at all of us that he has a role or the ability to kind of play a global role. This is suddenly catapulted into everyone's consciousness. I think if you stop people on the street and say, do you know about boss Oldham you'd you'd have had blank? Looks. And now, clearly he's he's played this important role. I think the risk for him might be that that if the Russians have really fed up, but this they could ask the Turks to exert a little more pressure on him. And he's already as I say quite constraint. Some interesting point because look the Russians are furious about this because this church has now fallen out of their authorities. So one lever removed over seven I'm going to sit down and take this benignly. So some sort of plotting may well be going on James what is it? What direction could they take it? I mean during his marathon news conference just before the end of last month. President Putin who suggested that the property disputes which imagined would result from this move on presumably there will be such perfidy disputes over those parts of the church and Ukraine, which wished to remain loyal to Moscow. And those which dones who owns what part of of church property, and so on Mr Putin did warn during that news conference that he also suggested it could become bloody. That won't be Americans about this as well. Because I think Mr. Pompeo. Pompeii over of discussing this with with president Persian who they do see it very much in political terms. I mean, I think as I say it's very important to to to think how important this is to Russia. Mr Putin's career was began in the service of the state now, he's very not very very keen to observe as many orthodox rituals. Can it's always reported when he goes to church on the author's Christmas or Easter last year, you may remember to partner piffle ceremony which involves cutting through the ice at the time of the Russian winter, there's sometimes that minus thirty but the faithful go and. Into hoes. Mr Putin was filmed during that shown on national TV, so very very very important and part of this in tow to say for Ukraine to say winner part of this anymore. It's significant snub to Russia particularly into. Let's take a little bit further because I guess there is the few that Russia. Also, proceeds an independent Ukrainian church is part of a much wider strategy on the part of Ukraine to build stronger links with western organizations like for example, NATO and indeed we round that particular. Doesn't doesn't really provoke a warm response from Russia? So, you know, the game with Ukraine says being you know, how far can you go without without Russia? Really responding. I think this is in this particular move. It is also gives you crane a more profound sense of identity. You know, if if a country has its own church its own and takes ownership, it spiritual traditions, obviously annoyed Russia because I mean, Russia sees everything in terms of power, but it's not an aggressive move. It's not a move that damages anybody. But you know, the the whole question of how far Ukraine can go remains can touch tone of of of Russian Russian interest in retaining its power. But I guess from the Russian perspective there is that concern role than fear that okay Petrie shaneco owned his friends. They've been instrumental certainly. Hoped to push things in terms of the church. So what else is next on not hit list? How much further are they prepared to go? What's the next viable talk? James? I in an idea whether many in Ukraine who would very happily join the European Union and NATO in the last five years of my unforeseeable in in the next five years, if one consider outlines Russian strategies from starting the war in Georgia in two thousand eight it has been to draw very very very firm red line of the further eastward expansion of NATO from Russia's points view. They're very definitely succeeded in that it's but others in Ukraine who c- own oversee this move of itself is a pro Westwood move. But it certainly in a way from Russia move. And so in that sense of falls into the same camp, but Ukraine oversleep still lost. You know, he's lost Ukraine to Russia. Very difficult to see whatever sanctions western protests are in practice. How that's going to be reversed in the future and Ukrainian membership of NATO's is clearly off the cards for the time being. But this is a way as Mr. Pershing himself said of coming away further from Russia's influence what I'd like to get from both of you in the time on this subject is. We understand the political optics from the point of view of may Putin, but is not shed by ordinary Russians on the streets. Do they also see it in in those terms, or are they more likely to go towards look this is a tragedy because we have an orthodox church and now we have another schism, and okay, we're not quite in the same league. As the Great Schism of the Catholic church between the church in Romans. I think it's been mentioned. But I mean, how how don't Russian see it as a huge spiritual tragedy for the for the orthodox church. Nothing. Russians, a lots of new Russia's will definitely say it is matter of regret because a lot of them do very keenly. They are I think lots of people in Russia feel very sad about the state's relations with Ukraine, but they would they would also blame that on the cranium government Rodman the Ukrainian people, I think a lot of Russians would make that distinction. But I think and I think too they they believe, you know, they're sort of people who've got very strong ties of history. You know, there's a lot of people in Russia with Ukrainian names, lots of people of Ukrainian descent, lots of people in Ukraine, speak Russians. I think people will see that this is you know, this is a cause for gret. And I think an clearly it's not going to to help the future relations. You know, whenever these two countries will move towards something more like normal relations. Yes. Subject. I think that we will be returned to in the course of the year. But you're listening to Madari house here with me Juliette foster, and my guess is a Bill Hilton and James Rodgers now coming up next Germany's says the EU doesn't want a haunt border in Arlon does that mean for two reasons bid to get her. Brexit withdrawal Bill through Britain's parliament. Perspective, some fresh ideas. Direct your door on business culture and design not to mention fashion travel and much more subscribed today and join the world of Monaco as a valued subscriber. You get a ten percent discount in all monocle shops. And our online store, you'll be the first receive exclusive invitations to our events and how full access to the magazine archives. In addition all one year. Subscriptions come with a free limited edition, monocle tote back with full bespoke subscription packages to choose from you decide what suits you and Joe lives down best. What are you waiting for? Visit monocle dot com. And subscribe today. Still with me is Bill Hilton and James Rojas hair. Midori house know, Germany says it stands in quote full solidarity with Arlen over the Irish backstop saying a haunt border would be unacceptable to the European Union. Germany's foreign minister high comas made his remarks during a meeting with the Irish deputy prime minister, Simon Coveney who said that Westminster MP's planning to vote against to raise malls withdraw Bill will guilty of in his words wishful thinking as the EU would not reopen Brexit negotiations. Mrs may is battling to persuade MP's to support her Bill, which they will vote on this month questions. Both of you really, do you think that these remarks have helped or hinders? I suspect she wishes that she had a role of celebrate seal some lips together, but it's too late. Now, also hindered not he meant them to be helpful. Because there is a continuing fantasy not not only in the conservative party. But actually in the labor party that there is a better deal communica, she aided. And this is you know, this is a poor deal. This is a poor deal. Because leaving the European Union is a poor idea. And it has a lot of difficult problems on which other people have interest, and and rather firm views, and this has not changed. No matter how how long these headless chickens run around in circles, wishing it we're otherwise it isn't going to change its fascinating. Because journalistically we've managed to keep away from Christopher from Brexit for the Christmas vacation two weeks way. We all now back in nothing's changed. And that's the point because nothing has changed. Because MRs may we know she spoke to some of you count parts. Christmas, reassurances, etc. But you do have to ask yourself. What reassurances can they give her since last month? They said look we've just rated the Cup of bed. There's nothing left on the shelves. Coach original questions know will this help Hindu think whatever you believe your beliefs will be reinforced by what's been the people who think leaving the us about see I told you about our day and the people in leaving is a good idea. We'll say say look, this is just out, of course trouble. And I think nobody will be sort of swayed either way. So, but as you know, what can help MRs studies, it's really very difficult to say. I mean, one is reminded the votes in parliament having been postponed with a course, you know, the tacit and very strong implication being wouldn't have passed that stays very difficult to see what has changed since. Then that will make it past next week. I mean, it's rather reminded of conversation conversational teenage daughter yesterday around what trousers fashionable. Not really. Once something gets about nine. It's it's once something gets bad reputation. Nobody's gonna vote for and I think this is really this deals go to political reputation. Both neither remains nor leaves satisfied by it. And it's only this thought that you know, the really is no alternative and trim. The at least a short-term media longer term consequences for the country will be something between battling catastrophic may focus minds. And I suppose that's Mrs Maes early hopefully states. There's nothing to suggest anything has changed since she didn't put this deal to parliament last month to see what what game she's playing. But it it seems to me that as you watch this. This this chaos deepen that we might be coming to point where the choices crashing out of stain nothing in between is is is deliverable. And and so that at least would be a resolution, I would prefer one side of that very strongly. But I mean, the we we just gave rise. And circles the having said that Simon company he he did actually open the door very slightly because he said the Irish Republic wouldn't block attempts by the UK to extend article fifty which would delay the exit process. But the question is even if Arlen is willing to be magnanimous on Matt will the rest of the U necessarily. That's not problem. I think they would be very happy to spawn to suspend article fifty because nobody nobody loses. I mean the question is would time bought by that. And I think it's going to have to happen anyway. But with the time bought by that producer resolution. Rehashing old territory. So you get the same result. Whether they would, but, but at least it would it would mean that that the hard Brexit is couldn't use the March thirtieth deadline excuse for saying it's all over we're leaving now, regardless of of the lorries, and the, you know, all the stuff that we're talking about. So so I personally think that's going to happen regardless. Opinion this country both in parliament and outside which does actually welcome that in and the school of thought which says well, it will be short term hardship. But after that, we'll be back to. So it's gonna be worth it for the short term. It's not necessarily of you shed extent by the majority of people in this country. But it is view. That's how I think there are some people who would welcome to just want to go over the line. And then they'll take it from that. So any delay? Any stench of article fifty would be bad news for them. Okay. Then let's move onto. I final subject because Japan's workers on not getting enough. Sleep amount is official Expos claim that a lack of sleep is costing the economy one hundred thirty eight billion dollars a year. I'm bosses are. Now, so worried that many are taking unusual steps to address the problem. Some companies have special sleep rooms were exhausted work has nap won't couches while others are encouraging stall to avoid doing overtime. So they can get a reasonable hour. I mean, I I had to confess I burst out laughing when I read some of this. But I mean, I is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the incentives that are being offered, but also quite worrying in some respects that you're working people so Hawes that they're coming to work absolutely exhausted. And then you're trying to buy them off by saying you can sleep at your debts. Go whatever and owned, by the way, his voucher more sleep. You get the more vouchers. You get these the food when they said that they were telling workers that they had to leave by nine pm. No, don't see any later than that. Yeah. Maybe there is another approach Mosul. Intrigued by how you quantify, you know, the cost of oversleep listeners at one hundred thirty eight billion dollars a year. Yeah. How do you do that? But you know. Right. You're right. I mean, how how do they how do they do it? But let me is that in this country. We talk about striking the work life balance its non-existence in Japan from what from what these these findings reveal troop sleeplessness is is actually rather fashionable topic at the moment. And and I would have thought Japan had numerous bigger problem. Given the disco to very rapidly ageing population over the recent research that lack of sleep can accelerate Alzheimer's because they go to serious problem of the structure of they're the age structure of their populations. Have what they really want is their old people to sleep. This time of year. Of course, I remember eating piece of research can talk to a few years ago article about it would sign that. I'm you know, if you think life is easy now, you know, medieval peasant sexually slept in Europe slept a lot more than people do now. Because of course in the winter this time of year. No, artificial light. You went sleep rhythms. That's long gone. I mean since since the industrial age we were Waco somebody who's done shifts and doesn't miss them. It's it's not good. The cream represents. But actually sleep is also an issue in in terms of decision making you may remember that show boasted that she only slept for five hours. Which actually in terms of research would make pretty much all of her judgment suspect. I couldn't possibly comments on notes at brings us to the end of today's show Isabel Hilton and James Rojas. Thank you so much joining us here at majoria house and today's show was produced by Bill research by Ferdinand of gusto Pacheco, and mainly and mainly Evans and studio manager was Kenya. Scarlet more music coming up next than nineteen hundred dollars eights Monaco on design, and we'll have more on the day's main stories on the Monaco daily at twenty two hundred Madari house is back at the same time tomorrow that is eighteen hundred London time. I'm Juliette foster goodbye.

Ukraine Donald Trump James China Mr Kim Russia US president European Union Juliette foster Russia President Putin Japan Isabel Hilton Midori house North Korea Germany Bill Hilton Kim Jong
The Kim Dotcom saga is finally nearing an end

RNZ: The Detail

20:55 min | 2 years ago

The Kim Dotcom saga is finally nearing an end

"They. Cura. I'm Sharon Kelly. Today on the detail Kim dot com. He'll make us last stand against extradition to the United States in the supreme court this week are in seeds Kate Newton takes me on a trip down seven years of high drama with the larger than life character. People that I've spoken turns seeds I'm going to, to the supreme court to covered dot com last stand as you put have actually what is he still here and people have forgotten not only that can dot com as in the country, but the forgotten a lot about the case is all about. And how began I mean talking to you actually had to we've got in front of us here and I had to sit down and actually think about it in my Heaton Ranchi thing down, because it's been a couple of years since the last major court hearing. And so even for me, somebody who kind of coveted intricately from the beginning nearly from the beginning, even to me, it's indecipherable sometimes. Yeah, because there are so many elements to it. Not only the legal stuff, but has personal life in the politics behind it. I mean, he was he's just this larger than life character. But I can't even remember when he first came in the country here, rival New Zealand and started living here in twenty teen and he was. Hit for couple of years with a relatively lower profile John k at various stages claims, not to really know who he was until the rents happened. I think what he was most notorious full prior to being arrested was, it was big fireworks display that he paid four cleansed to one skill. Guilty, the thousand living as look at from the CDI could see crowds gathering who what will be a speak techy of this play on a scale never seen before here, the New Zealand, courtesy of Mr Kim dot com as he above the city doctor and live at the harbor and grow almost like who's the great guy, my besides his paved fireworks. And that's pretty cold. And so people knew that about them, and they also knew that it was kind of interesting character the being in the big crisco has mentioned. And Clinton, there was the big mansion, there was the fireworks display, and that was really all anyone, you about him and whole twentieth of January twenty twelve so it will Cain nearly seven and a half years ago, which as an incredible amount of time that this has been rolling on that. That was the day of the rights. I think a lot of people do, remember those images of, in our helicopters, converging on the mention on your guy opened and landing on these kind of lush beautifully, Mon grain moons. Consume like target. We seem as and black outfits with guns jackets, and that sort of thing all kind of climbing over the walls and rating. The mention com has been shown the warrant shish the property and sake video of that was sewn in court in one of his court appearances. So, yeah, I think the police we're really came for everyone to say what they done and their involvement, which subsequently tuned out to cause a few problems of the New Zealand place, how that raid was actually conducted, the conduct of the police announce acuity agencies in the lead up to the to the rage and just remind us why to happen in the first place. Well, Kim dot com. Was the founder and owner and teeth executive of Mehta upload dot com, which at one point zero their claims these times of being repeated unquote accounted for something like four percent of all traffic on the internet. Percent of the internet. Just a mega million. It's ten tons. Bye. It was, according to Kim homes, legal teams. It was a big online storage, look at you could upload files towards and you know, you could share your files with other people, and you could download them and his eye that it wasn't even meet to be used as an illegal dumb sites. But there are some factual many, many, many people remember using fool being able to go onto me got PLO JR. And be directed the from third party sin to be able to find files for movies and various things that you might wanna watch. Is he a victim of Hollywood politics? He would certainly argue. Yes. In fact, he will probably anger that he's the wider conspiracy, and he's accurate that link phone Twitter. I think it's being a saying that Hollywood and the US kind of in conjunction with each of the world. Looking for somebody as a full guy for all of the Seletar downloading and legal activity that was taking place with not Hayes of victim. And the targeted since that he thinks that he was that they were coming out to him specifically. I don't know. But there was a lot of term fro during the Obama administration with Hollywood with wis coast kind of democratic politicians that sort of thing about the role of the internet and copyright breaches and the money that studios will losing because of that. And the way that was really undercutting Hollywood's business. And then so what the Hollywood executives went to the b I the b I came to New Zealand so that if the I got in touch with New Zealand and seed. Hey, we're interested in the skied. You think that you could help us and the New Zealand? Police these please, it was quite a lot of cooperation and tunes of organizing surveillance of conduct communist various hits in the late up to the range, kind of planning, the rage, the date of the rate significant because just to backtrack a little bit. It's really important to remember. That dot com is not the only person involved here. There are three other means that had been jointly charged with him and all of these tradition proceedings. So we talk about the extradition of Kim dot com. We're also talking about the potential extradition of three other people who've been a New Zealand for seven and a half years. And the reason why couple of which hushed as Janu the twentieth is come to calm swift. Hey was planning a huge booth. I bash full for that Dang's if BI and use elands security agencies who monitoring them, you and they thought, you know, he's got friends, including these other executives from mega applaud her flying into New Zealand for his birthday so, you know, all together they're going to be there at the house, they can be an Oakland and we'll get the mall and the one needs to they get all the guys in that rate. Yeah. I think they got her. They were coming for. So there were there were four there. There was come dot com on veasley and has house. It was brand fend coke than Batata. And it was Matias woman, and those with four who were recieved on the day. And the court later ruled that rate unlawful, the high court found that these search warrants that will use to carry out the range were unlawful that was later overturned by the court of appeal and orbiting was held by the supreme court. So actually by the time it mates. Why all the all the way to the supreme court was was held the warrants were actually lawful. And so the right self was not unlawful per se. But it was some other things that happened that were not strictly lawful or legal, one of the things is Kim dot com as a permanent resident of New Zealand and your rules around which of outer spy agencies can spy on residents of New Zealand. The. Jesus pay, which has oversee spy agency is, is not meant to be spine on mystic residents on New Zealanders. That's the purview of the and saw the be was monitoring dot com and that, that was found to be legal should not have done that the high court has ruled the government's 'electronic spy agency's entire surveillance. Operation of the internet businessman Kim dotcom, and his associates was illegal. It found the bees operation in twenty eleven fell outside the scope of its legislation at that time, the government acknowledged twenty twelve that it spying was illegal, because it involves New Zealand, permanent residents who should have been exempt from SP surveillance. And there was little political fallout from that. But also questions about the heavy-handedness of the right. And actually that violated, you know, human rights because as well as dot com, you head his wife Myrna. They've got five children. Children. All of whom are very young at the time all of a sudden, you've got guys sweeping helicopters. The danish. Pluses children in the top of the gear. Roger that, thank you. We've got all of the children on heavy you know, methodically clear as you previously described. The argument is always pain that they could have seen two cops and patrol car and since someone to knock on the door. But that's the claim that was made by by him and his lawyer as that it was actually no need for this kind of higher hindered, swat style Hollywood movie, right on the mention and he used it really in some ways he portrayed himself as a victim and his family as victims. Yeah he did complaints has treatment in prison. Molly was being held, you know before his first appearance way has family was treated, and eventually tool. Three is back on the was a confidential Setiawan that was made with dot com and various New Zealand agencies about the way the right was carried on his treatment, so that Spain, one of the, the legal strands, we can't go through every point in his court appearances in, in this long, long, legal battle. But what are some of the main the most dramatic points along the way, I think, maybe in the early stages. The most. Stuff was the about how the rights are being carried out what had been happening in the lead up to that with that was legal the conduct of various New Zealand's agencies, and that sort of thing that came out that he'd hole that found them hold up some kind of Saif room and that had to Boston ear and they thought he had weapons and, and then you kind of get into the heavy legal arguments, and I have to say, these, these not a lot of drama, I've spent a lot of hours in courtrooms because of come dot com and there are very few kind of moments that really make you sit up and go, well, but I guess the probably the biggest moment of drama has been the day, that the finding that, hey, should be extradited that he was eligible extradition was made by the district court here in New Zealand that was a huge moment. They would reporters from around the world. Who attended the extradition hearing and came to the decision? That was my. Not much. To say is that this is not the last word on the matter. If five appeal I'm still on Dale and we was the whole process until the very end you should not be disappointed disappointed. But that's all I have to say, and I wish everyone very merry Christmas, and happy new year. I'm going home now. That was the fist really kind of substantive funding and in all of this intensity tradition. And he's fought at every step of the way our. Yeah. In losses. This is why which walking CBA half years later and he's still here because he because he was very wealthy. And because he just find some of his has been frozen. He he's made at some point recently that he spent something like forty million dollars on lawyers. God. Nice how much the crown has been fighting the other side, I may requests of them in the past, and it was getting up to sixty million dollars. But that's tool three years ago. Now we've been to the supreme court twice already. This is the third time this is going to the supreme court because let's go on the on the, the question of the search warrants. And then there was another kind of side showed that made it all the way to the supreme court. What happens of he loses this last beta l- will he be? Extradited immediately, nor Sar. We talked about this being dot dotcoms last stand, which is true and con of crew. So you've got the supreme cool deciding whether or not his eligible to Sharon, what that means is that they've been tell the Justice minister Andrew little east with found that come dot com. Eligible extradition. Or not. And if they find that he is eligible, it's up to Andrew little twig that decision. So she kind of comes down to one person who takes what the court reconvenes into account, but can also take other things into account at that point. They could take into account, the fact that the US federal prison system is actually a pretty horrible place the conditions and those because would go should jail. Well, he would not immediately go to jail, but he would go to trial in the states in potentially face. I think it's up to eighty eight years in prison. Sorry. They could take that into account and say actually, as, as he facing potentially just proportionate punishment for whatever crime, he would have committed Hetty committed it under New Zealand law and say, actually. No, we don't we don't think he is eligible, my sense from talking to extradition experts is that that's very unlikely to happen. It's likely that the Justice minister wall will go along with what is recommended. What is found by the court? But then. Then you get to a point where KENDALL come could seek to the Justice ministers decision to digitally reviews if it doesn't go in his favor. So you've still got a one little extra kind of get out cools there, which is that the judicial review could Overton ministers decision again, probably quite unlikely and the other face night, thing about dot com, while all this legal stuff has been going over on over the years. This been some fascinating personal stuff going on in the background and he's hoping played out in public or a lot of it's being played out. And yeah, I mean you say going on in the background, but that's very much being in the foreground than I think some of those things are what people remember beater about Kim dotcom than they do about any of the twists and turns of the legal case for the reasons that I've explained before because it's boring, but all of the things that can dot com got up to in the meantime, have been fascinating. We were talking about the intimate, Patty. The fact that that come dot com. In two thousand fourteen decided that he would get into New Zealand, politics and. You know, he he kind of that was a real turning point. I think and. How people in New Zealand Salk dot com. Do you think he had quite a lot of public sympathy before? Then I think that the would definitely parts of New Zealand society who viewed him as a sympathetic figure there were elements of the internet community. There were people who used to upload the were. People who just really like authority, swill, the sky, sort of sticking it to the police since two kina to the bay as ice. And, and so I think that was a, a level of public sympathy probably helped by the fact that he was this really larger than life kind of like a cat, turn character. He lived in this huge mention had the beautiful wife through, these really kind of leverage parties early days. He spent a million dollars. I think it was and countless owls down around he'd studios here in Clem recording and album that was widely panned by the critics. So the editor the folklore around dot com, and then along comes the Taty and bankroll by dot com. But it was really compensate as a bit of a vehicle for Kim dot com and hesitant to not be extradited. And I think people sort of swore as quite a selfish move on his behalf banks, the former Oakland Mia, he, he figured large, and the whole dot com. Saga too, didn't he? Yes, John Banks was found guilty. And this was overturned, but he was found guilty of electoral fraud. The having accepted to twenty five thousand dollar donations and again, reminded that will this tuned. But at the time he was found with acceded to twenty five thousand dollar donations from Kim dotcom for his mural, but and the. Reason he was found guilty. The fist time hinged Lansley on evidence, given by Kim dot com and also give them by Mona dot com. The high corden Oakland that the had been the lunch with donations were discussed where can had seed, you know, give you the money if you fifty thousand dollars and John Banks debts great, but canoe spirit and two payments, twenty five thousand dollars and that way, it doesn't need to be declared. And the same way it does, when it's a big donation, all of this through, and then fortunately for John Banks. He he was able to get that conviction overturned because to American businessmen who'd been at the lunch. They actually minister, check them down. Don't banks wife track them down. She was so infuriated, by the outcome of this court case that she went to extreme lengths to work out who these businessmen have been that come dot com. Had head also at the lunch track them down and say to them, do you mean the political donations being discussed ignore? They wrote an Davis. Swore that offense and that was presented. And the rehearing of the case was cleared. Yeah. I mean, also he's, he's now remarried, and he's been living in Queenstown will, so he's actually an Auckland back here for health reasons, but he was in Queenstown. Again, it's almost difficult. Keep track of where Kim dot com. As as we are the legal cases, sorry him. Mona split up a few years ago, all sorts of kind of crazy women's magazine stories about fleeing the mention on Gulf cash undercover of diagnosis. Elements of which may or may not be strictly accurate. Anyway. Mona monitored leave him to in India feely amicable split a little while later, he got together with Elizabeth Donnelly, very young. She was, I think a twenty year old university students, they went public. They immediately appeared to break up because of the intense scrutiny their relationship came under and then they got together again and the actually last year on comes birthday, which was become kind of occasion for him to make these grand gestures on the NFL Serie of the right. He and Liz, Liz dot com as she is now got married, sorry. All of them in the five children, moaners, well, little moved to Queenstown pretty quiet. So he's back in Oakland, Oregon, that move winnable under the writer and we'll be in court this week that I can't tell you, hey, makes no secret that he finds the legal proceedings almost as boring as everyone else does. He come along. Extradition hearing, because that was the big one many hit a speech here on the courtroom that was brought for him because he's got some Becca shoes. And, you know, the ordinary kind of quote cheers, you're uncomfortable sedan. So that was another point of interest. He may come along to this one because it's the supreme court. This is this is the big one. Today. Mega. This. The detail for today. I'm Sharon brief Kelly, the details brought to you by newsroom dot co dot in seed made possible by the oriented inside on innovation fund, the subscribe button to stay across the detail every day. And if you're on April, please leave a rating is it helps other listeners find us. And of course, we're on Facebook and Twitter to this episode was engineered by Jeremy Ansell, and produced by Alexia. Russell Marty wa.

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Parasite (Directed by Bong Joon-ho)  Eat the Rich?

Show Me the Meaning!

1:06:54 hr | 1 year ago

Parasite (Directed by Bong Joon-ho) Eat the Rich?

"What's everybody welcome to show me? The meaning was practice movie. podcast my name is jared. I'm joined here by The show me the meaning crew. We Got Ryan Film fans and back on the airwaves. Got Austin what's up man. What the fuck and welcome back baby back man? It's good to be back so give us a little bit a year. You're you said you're up to ninety percent. Yeah I think so I think so I mean I mean it was a keyhole operation so the actual surgical wounds aren't that bad but You know just getting back into shape and I was in a hospital bed for. You're almost two weeks so there's a little bit of atrophy and just get my lungs backup to to working order and also just the stupid hesitance right like feeling like like oh no. Am I going to over exert myself in undo the surgery just getting over that stupid mental that mental block but I feel like the I eighty percent I was there. They're in like three weeks after the surgery and then I think it's just that final final twenty percent. This is GonNa take a little bit longer but day to day activities on one hundred percent. It's just the like hardcore exercise stuff. Swimming plan ball things like that. That are going to take a little bit of time. Well I hope those hospital visits did not bankrupt you because today we're talking about parasite parasite film directed by directed and Co written by Ball Juninho starring Song Kang. Ho Parks Odom and Choi. Who Sick as always? We're GONNA go around and get people's First Impressions Ryan. We saw this movie together. What did you think of it? Yeah we did. We actually just ran into each other at the theater. I believe that's right Or you texted stood me thirty minutes before the movie inviting me and I said Bro of already got tickets. Same time same. I know and I was like Halley. Hour will run the same way. Let Theater was it. arclight flight was only playing theaters. Yeah was it. Was it a good experience there because they usually do something kind of fun in the act just going to arc like Kinda has an extra genesis genesis about a little bit not as much as the draft house but I mean th they'll have like the the filmmaker will be there or somebody from the movie will be there sometimes sokaia about as as much as they do kind of Cuckoo. What'd you think of the movie? Okay so what did I think about parasite. I could not have been look look more forward to this movie. Bongino is one of my favorite filmmakers. I think he's up there with the greatest of all time and then definitely living filmmakers. You know he's he's he's a he's on that short list of the best and I guess my short my short review of this movie is I give it a ten out of ten and I wanted. I wanted the thirteen out of ten so I would say I loved this movie. It's hard for me to eating fine flaws in it but yeah I like like compared to his other movies which literally every one of them packs such a big punch like me and jared love mother so much like that was one of how I feel like a movie. We really are related to Early on when we came to L. A.. Mother his version of mother about the ski. And then you know memories of a murder the hosts know piercer. Every single one of those really hits me hard and then this one also hits between hard but I don't know what compared to the others. It's kind of in the middle. I'd say but I love this movie. It's Great Alright Austin what about you. Yeah I'M GONNA GONNA do this spinal tap and turn it up to eleven at ten as well because yeah. I thought. This was pretty pretty epic I sought at the Sydney film fest which was like a couple a couple of weeks after can and so it had just taken home the palm door and then it came to Sydney film fest and it took the top prize at the Sydney film fest as well. Oh and Bong Jun Ho was here. And I was in the audience with a theater filled with Koreans for people who know Sydney. Sydney is a very multicultural. Israel place and there is a large Korean population here and so I think that enhanced the experience you know it's like when you see a Scottish rush film in Scotland with Scott Filth in Scotland and I think that enhanced my experience of seeing an Irvine Welsh film right because I was with Scottish people who got the inside jokes and so the energy was just raised. It was very similar with this. The energy was just raised to the hilt. I thought it was fantastic. I think it's a masterpiece and I don't Wanna I don't WanNa do the unfair uncharitable thing where people are kind of comparing apples and oranges. But I do want to say all of the political and social attention that a film like jokers getting. I think that parasite does what joker is supposedly doing in terms of at least like the the hardcore lefty critique like a structural critique. Yada Yada Yada parasite does that at a billion times better in a cinematic form that I think the direction is pitch perfect. It's cinematic wonderful. The visual Motif of the stairs has handled. I think better in parasite recite than it is in joker. I just think parasite is like a flawless example of what a film can do. That is both social commentary but also just cinematic Matic and thematic masterpiece. It's a family story. I think I told you this jared that that's actually what born June hosts says. He's like everyone always asks me. What's the Perez said? WHO's the parasite he's like? This is just a family film and everyone started laughing and we watch the movie and we kind of got the joke by the end of it. I think this is a wonderful film across the board. So filmmakers are such trolls like that. Remember listening listening. I remember listening to an interview with Paul Thomas Anderson after there will be blood came out and it was on. NPR and the interviewer asked him. What inspired did you to make this film? There's all these great grandiose deeper themes and he just goes yeah. I just really wanted to make a film outside. All the thought aww will goes into this movie. And that's what you're gonNA give us you fucking troll well and if you know his filmography Bongino host filmography you get his sense of humor and so when he says this is just. Has the family film the audience kind of laughed. And then I think by the end of it. Everyone even got the joke more. You know because the humor in this film is also also like I mean it's hysterical like I was laughing so hard but then also hit being hit in the feel so hard at the same time and it leaves you on this very ominous serious thought provoking note but at the same time. It it isn't it isn't like it's trying to beat you over the head with some sort of social commentary you know so it's not it's not to self serious and the way he does that I think is almost unlike any other filmmaker that is outright. Now I'm so jealousy that you have to watch the Korean audience because he himself says like this quote Unquote Korean movie. That there's lots of inside jokes like you're saying that that that you know an American audience I wouldn't necessarily pick up on. I'm I met June once. I pretended to be a student at Chapman University and I got him to sign my copy of mother proud of that. Yeah I love this movie I saw twice. I actually liked it better the second time and I don't know if I'd say it's top Bunk joon-ho those probably the two top ones for for me or memories of murder and mother but this one would probably go third. Can't say enough positive things about this movie. I think it's razor sharp and I'm really excited to talk to you guys about about it but before we get into recap couple WANNA mention one. You've probably heard me say this before. But we now have a medium page wise crack teams working really hard to get articles written three the week go hit us up at medium dot com slash wisecracks subscribed to the page like are like in share articles. It's all the stuff you come to expect from us but in text form. Also we've got one podcast also going on right now. Are South Park. PODCAST links are in the subscription Leeann links are in the description option to subscribe. We're covering every episode of South Park this season as well as rick. And morty comes back this weekend and we're going to be doing our podcast me and Ryan Ryan and Alex are GonNa be doing the squash again. You can also subscribe to that by looking at the show notes or the Lincoln the description but without further. Ado Let's go into a recap boiler alert spoiler alert. Of course the working class. Kim Family is struggling to pay the bills until one day. Their son's friend comes bearing two things a precious rock Iraq meant to symbolize prosperity and a job opportunity for the sun to tutor the daughter of the wealthy park family. The son Kiwi pretends to be a US educated needed high dollar tutor and immediately charms. The socks off his impressionable employer Mrs Park using his talent for theatrics key. Who is able to sell Mrs Park on hiring during a fellow high-dollar specialized tutor for her troublemaker? Son She agrees but unbeknownst to her she's just hiring key. Wu's sister Ki Jong who knows nothing about children's education this pattern continues until the entire Kim family is working for the park family. While assuming fake identities the kids are tutors the fathers the the driver and the mothers the made when the parks go on a camping trip that Kim family celebrates inside the park house when the recently replaced made knocks at the door. Mrs Kim lets her in. And she reveals a secret underground lair in which her husband has been living since before. The parks moved in when the maid discovers the Kim family's game she threatens threatens to expose them. The park family decides to cut their trip short causing to Kim's to subdue and accidentally killed the made and hide before they're seen by the parks while hiding under a table Mr Kim. Here's Mr Park complaining about how Mr Kimchi smells of old radish. Like many other lower class undesirables. Also the Kim's escape undetected but find that their house in the boonies has been flooded now with nowhere left to go. They take refuge in gymnasium until the next morning the next state parks throw a party for their youngest son. The Kim's all arrive to work the party. But the maid's husband upset that his wife is dead emerges from the lair bludgeons is key. Woo to the head with the prosperity. Rock and stabs ki-jong killing her. When Mr Kim witnesses Mr Park holding his nose at the maid's husband he's reminded of the smell comments and kills him right there? Mr Kim hides in the lair and key whoo experiences brain damage but he vows that one day he will earn enough money to buy the House House and save his dad from living in the underground layer and of movie our guys standing ovation. Thank you thank you but before we go on WANNA give the shadow toward sponsors over. At skill share skill shares online learning community with thousands of amazing classes covering dozens of creative and entrepreneurial skills you can take classes and everything from photography. Talk to creative writing to design productivity and more so whether you're returning to a longtime passion project challenging yourself to get outside your comfort zone or simply exploring flooring something new skill shares got class for you so for those of you who are fans the movie adaptation. There's actually a class written by Susan. Orlean who is the the woman who wrote the orchid thief that Meryl Streep Plays in the movie and so she is a real writer. She writes for The New Yorker as well as rights other nonfiction texts. And she's got a great class called called creative nonfiction right truth with style. If you're into any of the kind of stuff that we do she You can learn a lot from this class. She gives you tips on reporting according in interviewing how to turn your subject into a story a lot of the times when we're writing videos it's all about. How do we take this angle or take this subject? And how do we turn it into some sort of narrative with three acts so I highly recommend Susan's class. You can join. The millions of students already learning on skill share today with a special offer. Just for show me the meaning listeners. There's two free months that's right. Skill shares offering show me the meaning listeners. Two free months of unlimited access to thousands of classes for free to sign up to skill share air dot com slash wise crack again skill share dot com slash wise crack to start two free months right now that skill share dot com slash wise crack back and now back to the show so the first thing I want to ask you guys is. Why do you think this movie is so popular? I think this is like the Gangnam style of Korean movies. He's in that I've people are seeing this movie. People are talking about this movie. That don't normally talk about or see foreign films. Why do you think this one has elevated itself to the position to where it's really penetrating Zeitgeist? It's so bizarre and good. That's no longer sort of it And bonding hose of pretty big celebrity over there. Yeah I mean bombed June hoses Liberty Song King. HOS probably like the one of the biggest Korean actor celebrities but no one in America knows who they they are enough to get like your average movie going audience to see but it's good timing for a couple of reasons right because snow piercer. Had you know a a leading American sex symbol figure starring in it and it had a social message but then it was really popular on net flicks and then he comes out with archer. which which is a Netflix film? which I mean I didn't love but you know it nevertheless was really popular in American film And then you you have parasite which he goes back to a Korean non-english-speaking or non english-language film but nevertheless so he's built up kind of a reputation and then when you add the social message considering the political climate especially in the West in the UK you've got the election that's going on there with Brexit people that are really interested in like in class struggles in The issues between like the one percent or the point one percent and then the lower classes and then of course in America with the Bernie Sanders campaign rain our election so it just seems like the political climate is also making this film have a lot more like a punch to it. I would add to that but also I would say like like if you think if you think about the similarities between this movie. The palmdale or winner which also I think that's another big reason. It's one winning the big awards in any Paul's winter is going to get a jump. Start at the last year's palm the or winter is literally the same movie almost it's shoplifters view saw that movie it's a family living living you know all it almost looks like the same kind of basement set as parasite and they're trying to get by and they're just fucking over everybody they kind of the meat. It's funny it is but that movie was way less popular because as less fun to watch. It's Kinda like like parasite is just a it has a drive to it You know he knows how to direct the movie a movie and yeah. shoplifters is kind of way more contemplative it's longer and unnecessarily necessarily long and it's much slower. It's not as fun right like the humor and mixed with the pacing mixed with the beautiful set design. I mean this film. He made all the sets sonke found. He made these sets which was fucking crazy to think about right. So so your hands right back in. The old days is practical effects baby but no like like. I think that all of that stuff makes this film film. Just much more intriguing. And so it's going to flow better than film like shoplifters does but then think about this joker just past the nine hundred million mark around the world globally and part of it as well and part of it is because of the social and political context and the hubbub surrounding the film right so if parasite can in any anyway piggyback off of that similar political and social climate adding all the stuff that Ryan just said about it being palm or winter and that Bongino stars on the rise is and all that other stuff I mean. That's part of the reason why this is perfect. Timing for this film you know through I mean joker was a beloved character for the last eight years or whatever but I mean you probably the most beloved villain in all comic books or at least among general movie going audiences. But I'll say that yeah. I think it's the social political message but also that that Bong Jun Ho Ho is a master of comedy. There's I mean. Even his the most serious of his movies still have a sense of humor to them. And and Gosh I mean there should never be any drama. That has any less comedy than the amount Bongino puts in his movie because it just it makes the drama just work that much better and in fact in general I think the Koreans are really good about balancing drama and comedy films of Kim Ji Woon are similarly have a great balance of drama comedy. They're just really great at it. But let's start analyzing this movie. Sorry something Ryan I was just GonNa say that I. I want some feature feature ad online. That was like Do you remember that scene where the Sun is teaching the dad kind of how to act you know yes. He was function hose. It was like that scene plays way better than Korea. Because basically you have a non actor of upcoming actor teaching one of the the Robert Deniro of Korea took that even that that Seen as an extra layer of fun Meta funniness to it is something that the sun keeps saying and I wonder how serious we should take it but at the very beginning he said he doesn't say does much towards the end but at the very beginning he says it about three or four times. He said it's so metaphorical. Yes rings. Oh were you going to bring that up and I was laying. Yeah and I can't help but think if he doesn't say it's so much towards the end but I think by that point it's okay we're already primed to think okay like this is going to be met up on top of Meta on top of Meta right like their seat layers here. I had the opposite reading because to to me this movie. You can't go into this movie and not see the message about class because that's literally what it's about. That's what the text hexed is about. Not The subtext you could go see snow piercer. And just think Oh that was a cool movie about people trying to get to the front of a train and totally miss any of the socio-economic omic statements which are very similar to the ones we have in this movie and so I thought though I don't know I agree. I think it was. Yeah I mean it is but I don't know if you brought a seven year old to it. They would say oh. That was a cool movie with action scenes on the train. seven-year-old to this first of all you're fucked up Don't but second of all I think I think you could similarly have a reaction to this as well as not being explicitly about class it is just a family when you have to have some level of understanding of kind of economic inequality I think going in right. I'm yeah well I guess what I'm I guess what I'm saying. Is that if you watched snow snow piercer. You might not say oh okay so. The people in the back of the train are correlate for the poor people in our modern society but parasite is literally. Yeah about our modern society. Sure yeah but I mean but there's so much stuff that is supposed to be a visual motif right like the climbing of the stairs there's the ascending and descending The smell the idea that at the end is that like class war where you have the man coming out of the basement basement and he fights but then at the same time the father he he he still like he can't get the smell off of him and he has resentment towards Mr Park so he kills them like is that at a metaphor for class war like there is there are layers of metaphor that even go beyond just the kind of more explicit. So okay well. Let's let's do one at a time. I want to bring got a lot of those because some of them. I did not write down. But let's start with the title good place to start parasite so there's some obvious readings here. The Dad at the the end is a parasite because he's feeding his Liv living in the layer and he's feeding off the food of the wealthy. They're fumigated at the beginning. Like their bugs. You could even look at the whole thing with the Kim family fooling the park family into hiring them. It's that them. They're kind of leaching off the park. Family I really liked. There's a apart at the beginning where the kids are stealing free Wifi. Because their phones can't function without it there being like these leeches these parasites What else do you think is there? I mean it depends on how far you WANNA take the cockroach metaphor right because at the beginning. It's the stink bugs that were meant to identify them with that. The the poor are the stink bugs in the stink. Bugs are out of control so they need to be there needs to be fumigation to control infestation of the stink bugs. But then there's one it's really subtle and there's this bit where they're talking with the pizza box delivery person and she's kind kind of like. Oh you know a fifth of your boxes of quarter of the boxes. Whatever it is we're folded inappropriately and we have to maintain the brand of our pizza box and I thought that the wording of that was very intentional so I do think that there's a way that we can say that this parasitical relationship goes in every direction because ultimately even though yes the poor are identified as leaching off of this wealthy family through their disingenuous activities ladies and actions pretending to be these other people at the same time? The whole relationship is being upheld by an economic system. That itself requires this type of dishonesty. this type of the Hustle Culture There's a Korean philosopher actually named byung-chul Joel Hans that I've probably referenced on this podcast Multiple Times because I'm kind of obsessed with him over the last year or so but that he talks about how we all become achievement subjects searching searching to uphold the demands of positivity of late capitalist consumerist and productive culture and so we're constantly like it's hustle right like so how. How does how does the young? How does the Sun I get the job? It isn't because he's a great tutor. What does he do he tells her to act like she slashing through jungle grab the ball or grab the bull? Oh by the horns. Make Monday your bitch thank God. It's Monday Hustle Hustle Hustle. You know. It's like that's the kind of positive mantra that he preaches reaches. And then the mother's like Oh you're hired right. Not because he's such a great English teacher it's because he can preach the branding of late capitalist positivist consumer culture. So what do you think it's parasite singular though in the nut parasites Right like is it. Is it parasite like in. This is something that infects us like all of us but this but it affects the the the one tier of the unequal society in one way and then the other tier in another way but nevertheless there's still they're wedded together by the singular parasite or am I over thinking that well part of me thinks that the parasite is just whoever is living in that layer underground. Whether it's the maid's husband or Mr Kim at the end okay so you think maybe more like a singular like there's a singular parasite in. It's that it's I'm not saying that's how I think it's a definitive. I think it's a way to read it. I do think that there's probably something thin grander about the idea of parasitism. In general that it's probably referring to I also just think that perhaps the singular title parasites just sounds good. It's just a family film anyway so it doesn't matter yeah. Yeah there's a detail that I notice the second time around watching it is that the maid's it's husband when she goes to him. He's drinking from a bottle like he's a child like he's infantilized and I was wondering yeah I it seems very delivered to have him drinking out of a bottle rather than or like like literally a baby bottle that has one of those little mouth pieces on the end not like a water bottle or sports bottle model which could have easily have been but it wasn't and kind of worships Mr Park too. Isn't that weird like he's thankful that Mr Park has bestowing this generosity by giving him a layer so that he can be vandalized it. Yeah is that just is like a visual representation of how the Porath to debase themselves to serve the rich How there awhile? And then as so that would be for maybe the infantilized thing but as far as him having going to pray to him while he hits his lights that's how their labor only amounts to creating luxury for the wealthy how they're conditioned to feel grateful for the opportunity for that. There's a lot of a lot of maybes that I can't really parse out a definitive. That's what it means the An sorry I've read Audubon June. How interviews about this and he did say referencing Snow Piercer Similarities like snow piercers of system is or is a horizontal one. Obviously it's a train. And then the parasite one is literally a vertical system. Because it's a house which but some show you the meaning you can turn the podcast off. But don't the kids live upstairs. Like Oh yeah. Obviously I mean one of the I do like how the the parasite mates husband whatever he lives underground but then so do the Kim family there live their house that gets flooded. It is underground. And there's actually a really awesome part where they're under when their houses flooding and they're scurrying around trying to to keep the toilet seat down trying to save all of their objects and stuff it's intercut with the maid's husband getting out of his bindings and tending to his wife and is really nice juxtaposition to essentially say that they're in the same position and that brings me to. I WanNa talk about the rock. What does the rock symbolize in my mind? And I think this is probably generally the message of the movie is that how it's the rock symbolizes. This is how poor people don't have class solidarity because they're all trying to get rich. So you know when the when the Kim family family or specifically Mrs Kim goes to the basement and sees the made in the maid's husband the made is calling her things like Oh sister. You're a working class woman like I am and then she says. Don't call me sister. I'm not poor. And then of course the rest of the family tumbles into the scene and then everything goes to shit but he's always carrying that thing around Ki. Woo is because he is going to marry the girl. The young girl and this house is going to become the in laws is house. And it's that hope that keeps her from identifying with the maid and the mates husband but isn't it really funny too that he even has to say they even talk. I think it's when they're getting drunk. Or whatever when when the families when the park families out camping and it's like well if I do end up marrying her I'm going to have to hire a mother and a father to be the in laws like he he still won't be able to actually authentically enjoy that setting right which is why when he's when he's upstairs and he's like looking out at the very end when they're looking out over the party and he's talking with the daughter and he's like do I fit in in this setting there's a there's this weird disconnect where even if he could fit into this setting he never will fit into this setting which also translates into the smell which you can never get that residue off right so it doesn't it doesn't matter he will never fit into that setting and that is partly why I think one of the most profound kind of moments of have dialogue or introspective. Monologue about the rock is when they're in the shelter in the gymnasium after the flood and his father's talking with them and he says something along the lines of how like this rock always follows me. And it's I think that the rock haunts him with the promise or the demand Both the promise and the demand of the of achieving achieving wealth and prosperity. So it's the promise that you can achieve wealth and prosperity under conditions if you do X Y and Z and therefore the demand is therefore you must do x y and Z so that you can get this thing so it's constantly haunting him right and that's why he clings onto it and then ultimately it kills him. Well it fucks up. His hit doesn't kill him a fuck up his head awesome awesome. Would you say the rock is metaphorical Meta for a goal. It is it though. See See this is one of my things though is that what's really weird. Is that everything that we're saying. I agree with it makes sense that the basement dweller would almost kill Kevin with the rock. Because that's the thing condemned him his belief that he will be rich and everything but as the end of the movie when he vowed that one day he'll make enough money. He puts the rock underwater order as if he's distancing himself from it as if he sang. I don't need this anymore. I'm distancing myself from this belief in prosperity Freddie and yet he seems to be making a mission statement that I'm going to make so much money so I can save my dad. This never made sense to me. Is he burying it under the water or does it go unconscious. Think of the iceberg metaphor that everybody uses for understanding the unconscious. Right is is he burying it. Maybe he thinks he is but nevertheless his whole life is now been changed so that he can get shitload of money now. The reason is so that he can hopefully by this house. That has meant so much to him. That's been the symbol of prosperity and wealth and success in achieving the stairs in the social status but also releasing releasing his father. That's that's the the symbol of freedom as well right so does he. He doesn't like blow the rock up in forsake it and say I'm going to focus on family and love and career and purpose in depth in truth. No it's I'm going to completely devote myself to everything to get rich family kids. That can come later. First thing get rich so he likes sets it firmly into his subconscious. I can see that. Yeah maybe so. You're mentioning the stairs. Can you talk a little bit more about that. I just thought that it was so dramatic like just from US cinematic perspective if like the the amount of stairs that you have to go up in down in this film and especially when the rain is coming and they flood like like I felt tired going up and down those stairs in the film like it was. It was like exhilarating a ride. Almost right so you have their their basement dwellers they live in the basement housing so not only. Are they down the stairs. But then even their houses like semi underground rights. They only have like a little window. That's partially above the ground. So they're like in the basement of the basement but then of course there to this little town this little urban squalor That is the down these huge. There's so you have to go up the stairs just to get to like the suburban Nice homes to get to the upper class or the middle upper class or whatever they are and then not only that but you have to go up more stairs to get into the actual residency the park residency right. You have to climb up those little stairs to get up even to them so not only there on a street in there on a street. That's going up hill. So it's constantly like like Ryan was saying snow. Piercer takes you left to right in this horizontal movement but this film is all about the up in the down and it's climbing coming that social ladder or the social stairs and the park family. They're up at like the tippy top right but it's always like constantly going up and down the stairs and I just. I found it almost like exhausting to kind of to do it you know. Yeah so it's just. The Stair motif about social climbing makes sense. Yeah Yeah and I think just from a visual perspective like isn't it so powerful like that you get taken on this journey. It's like being on a roller coaster. Almost you're going up and down and up and down and it's almost like that's what it's not almost like that is what good storytelling does right. The show don't tell you don't even need to say like Oh. I got to climb up the stairs so I can get to the rich people know what you do. You just show them doing it and then you show the struggle of them. How no matter what happens when it's pouring rain when a natural disaster astor occurs? You have to go back down to where you belong and then when you get down to where you belong your world is wiped out because you deal with it you know. It's a great visual way to show how some issues affect the poor more when it's something simple like rain you can lose everything you have while the park family is just camping inspired. Yeah the kid is playing in the backyard in this gender storm right. He's having fun like Oh. This is cute and fun and the parents are able to have sex and get off while the family. Their entire entire life is destroyed. Do you think there's anything meaningful in the fact that the kid is obsessed with native Americans. Yeah parasites you know. We came over and took all the land I could yeah or is like this kind of this. Well well first of all we can see that there. Is this general obsession with everything western. Actually my my girlfriend's dad just went to Seoul last weekend and he was his first time going and he said that's it he doesn't even look like it's Asia it's completely western. You cannot see a single cultural relic from any any traditional past. It's a completely western thing but I just love in this movie every time someone makes an appeal to oh I know somebody who's educated in Illinois. It's it's all the all the sudden just a mark of of status. Yeah and now I'm not trying to shit on Illinois State University but the fact that the mother gets so excited about a State University in Illinois Illinois rather than it being like I don't know Harvard or northwestern or Stanford or something like that right like the fact I mean maybe Illinois state has a really good art school like that. I just I don't know about but I would doubt that a random mother who is defined as being quite simple anyway would have insight knowledge about art schools in the United States. She gets so excited just because it's an American University right nosy. I I love that moment because she's just as clueless as him. Yeah it would have been better for Kevin to to cite Harvard or Yale or something like that but instead he just sites some random city in the United States and the woman who is so much more prosperous than than him but yet is just as much of a simpleton is him is immediately just like Oh Illinois I know that's in the United States. Go on no. I like for people who are from California. It'd be like like somebody saying like Oh so and so went to cal poly Pomona. And you're like a cal poly in California and you're like yeah in California California and then someone gets really excited about it not shitting on cal. Poly my Stepdad went. There Ya go cal poly but again. It doesn't have the like international appeal of some of the larger larger more prestigious universities. But it doesn't matter because it's a western university so it carries some sort of international or cultural clout with did you guys. I want to talk about the distinction between in men who is the friend that gives him the Rock and key Woo Aka Kevin. There's a part where at the beginning men scares away. The drunkard and then Kevin tries to do it any totally bones it up he ends up getting a bunch of water on him. And then so this whole thing where Kevin Tells Mrs Parks Daughter that in the first lesson. She's going to need vigor. This is what you were talking about earlier Austin that word vigour comes. He's only citing that because his mother had looked at men and said yes college students they have vigor and then when they escape the park family when it's raining and when they get back down to their house and see how fucked up their situation is Kevin says I wonder what men would do in this situation. Why why are they elevating this character to such Grand Status is it just because he's a slightly higher status because he's going to college I I mean I thought it was that simple. Yeah he's made it out of you know the neighborhood is is doing so for his always that it was he part of the. Yeah I guess that makes sense wants he climbed wrote he climbed his way out. Yeah and isn't there. Some sort of. There's something interesting too about Kevin. Who when He? I has the fake certificate of having gone to was at Oxford Where his dad is like? Oh you know this is really great. And then his his son says something along the lines of like I just printed this certificate out early. I will be going there next year right. So it's like a fake it until you make it kind of thing. Yeah which is basically the Gospel here in La Dude. I think it's the gospel of kind of consumerist society eighty right. We talked a lot when we were talking about. Oh God what was that fucking documentary where we talked about like fins to Graham instagram right. The fire festival the Fire Fest when that's right but like how th- instagram it's called fake. INSTAGRAM is like the real versions of yourselves. Right like you without makeup and You're not trying to act like you. I don't know can fly in private jets or something like that. You probably just rented it for one hundred dollars an hour. Whatever the heck you did right which so? It's like it's like. There's an admitted committed understanding that is branding culture that we're currently saturated in. Is this fake it till you make it kind of culture and Shit. I used to work in a company where we literally used you. Say it all the time like not even a joke. It was fake it till you make it. I had I had people and worked with it. Had It on their desk had printed out fake it until you make it and I was like okay. I mean like it's it's it's beyond irony or because it's like so just embraced the. Yeah you just gotTa Kinda Bullshit and then you make that money and then supposedly you've made it. I guess that's what all the Kim family's doing man they're all faking it. You know A couple other other things. Oh another thing I want to mention. There's so we were talking a little bit earlier about how whether it's the maid's husband or Mr Kim Him when they are basically worshiping Mr Park when they have to like press his lights and they say they say you know like returning from a hard day's work. I love you so much Mr Park. There's a scene where the Kim family is celebrating that their incomes to they put all their incomes together. It's massive and that they're we're getting jobs that five hundred university students lineup too. And they say the give a toast and they say we want to give thanks to Mr Park. And I think that they're both underground both the the parasite the maid's husband as well as the entire Kim family underground saluting the man who signs checks are they not the same. I thought that was a really powerful powerful juxtaposition Yeah Yeah I mean I don't really have much to add it is. That's that's what I'm saying. It's not a very metaphorical movie movie. It's very on those in a good way. Which is why when which is why? When Kevin says the so metaphorical I feel like I? I don't know is he. Is he winking to the fact that the movie is much more tax than subtext or is he winking to the fact that a message message that he had put in previous movies. Mostly snow. Piercer is now just out in the open well but the reason it's that I would say it is metaphorical. Michael is because it's told through the Lens of a singular family right or to families. Let's say the rich family and the poor family but they are obviously meant to be stand ins for a much wider economic reality. which is the class relations between sort of proletariat class or proletarian glass abortion class right? So that's where it's metaphorical. So when you get at the end the guy who's like the old the old husband who comes running up the stairs and he causes. This is the chaos at the birthday party and he stabs the daughter and then And then you get a the father who then stabs Mr Park like like at that point. Isn't that meant to sort of symbolize again. Class struggle like the outbreak of a type of class. This is what it leads to. It culminates in this type of clash slash right so in that sense I would say it's metaphorical because it's told through the focus of like these two families rather than it being a little story about like skin joker which is literally about you. Get a class revolt right. So in that sense it's metaphorical and then of course you have like this rock it has meant to to symbolize prosperity and wealth. You have the stairs that's meant to symbolize the climbing of the social ladder We think yeah. Yeah AH exact. Metaphors are open for interpretation right but like so it does seem that I I totally get what you're saying in terms of like maybe relating it to how how obscure Snow Piercer was. It's a bit more on the nose but I think that the metaphor goes deeper and I think that's why that's what I was really drawn especially on this viewing the second viewing to Kevin saying it so metaphorical because then it made me like tune in so then I'm like okay. I'm GonNa see where the layers go. Oh how deep layers might go definitely leaning way more towards you jared and in the Senate. He's Kinda trolling us with that. One thing. That's that's what I was thinking but also in the background. I'm also thinking that something might be lost in translation. Maybe there's just something we're not getting because we don't speak Korean. Maybe I another part of the last thing is that are just like the whole what. WHO's the parasite and whatnot The thing is is the structure. The movie you know we haven't really talked about how much of a twist that that learning this basement is like like the the movie sets itself. One thing you get to that part. Were there literally toasting to Mr Part. And you're like wow. This is awesome work in this go. They've really made it. You know I guess as you can see. The logical conclusion of Kim falling in love with the daughter went not in in seeing that. Play out by but sets it all up and then you just have total one eighty degree Or whatever ninety degree angle on a when you want about the basement and the other in the other people that are that are terra citing off of them. Whatnot I don't know? I think that that was very deliberate. What he goes think? Yeah to kind of say that this is really interesting to right Right after that. The father has that whole speech when they're in the gym about plans and they're sitting there making their plans right and all their plans get scuppered board. And he's basically like that's the best way to live is to not have plans because if you don't have plans and you can't be disappointed in your plan can't get thwarted so it but they're sitting there they're making plans you know sons like I'm GonNa marry her and this is going to be our house and then we're going to be living the high life and we're GonNa have climbed the social ranks and then all of that gets is thrown into chaos because of fuck in the world is chaos thunderstorm comes. This random woman comes back because there's been some crazy shit going on in this house so it's like that old Mike Tyson quote. It's like yeah you can have all your plans until you get punched in the mouth right. And then you ain't got and then it's all Improv baby because then you don't know will they got fucking punched in the mouth right when they were making all their plans and that Kinda that's Kinda what's going on. It's you could think of it as see. This is what I was thinking thinking about granted. I just taught a class on financial crises here. So I'm teaching a class on international economy and finance. We're getting to financial crises. So maybe that's another thing that I'm thinking of why it's metaphorical because I'm thinking of like the rain storm and getting punched in the mouth to extend that metaphor to the idea of like financial crises. Like just things that can come out of nowhere and then what do you do. How do you deal with it? And then how does it exponentially affect the poor. More think of the rain storm is affecting them more. But if you're wealthy it could be a blip on the radar or it could be a great opportunity for investment. Buy Low sell high. You know at a time of crisis. That's an amazing opportunity for new assets to weaken and to be opened up from for you to strengthen your position as long as you know what you're doing or you're in the right you're in the right space but if you're poor you're gonNA get screwed so so I think there's a lot of that stuff going on as well. Do you also think that there's an element of them getting a taste so their own medicine in that you brought up the pizza box people before. So they're fucking up the pizza box people's game and that lady that we see who pays them is probably not the rich person she doesn't seem company she's she's working class and they're screwing up her means of making money and then once they make it the person that screws screws up there means making money is somebody who was in the situation that they're in somebody lower on the ladder. This is one of the reasons why I really like this film. Because it doesn't doesn't seem to come from a position of like preaching right like so many films that have a social commentary. They take an ideological position. Like I'm on the side of the working class. All rich people are evil and bad. You're you're the bad person and I'm going to show you why you're immoral or the opposite side. Greed is good bright kind kind of thing whereas this film I think really does a nice job of kind of like walking that balance saying look man even people in the working class are competing against each each other and are GonNa fuck each other over and are going to do what they gotta do to Hustle to make their end to make ends meet and they're struggling and they're in a position. They're larger like structural questions that that are really that we ought to focus our criticism on not so much the individual relations that are dealing within those structural positions. And that's why I think this film is so good because it doesn't preach down to you. Yeah okay couple other things. Some just general things details that I really liked. I love how when when they're celebrating in the parks house when they're eating all their snacks drinking all their booze. The daughter is eating dog treats for like ten minutes before she realizes that their dog treats which is just more debasing the poor to the point or legit. The discrepancy between the lives of the rich and the poor are such that the rich are feeding being their dogs. Things that human beings would love to eat I also like I also like detail that when the parks are having sex on the couch while the Kim's are awkwardly under the table their role playing being poor as they have sex and This reminds me of like I know we bring them up so often but when it talks about titanic he talks about how like you know Rose in titanic the bourgeois who needs to kind of slum it with the poor guy to suck up the vitality of the poor man before she just sucks up that vitality and then discards of him later and I feel like I see you see similar things. Here with the rich wanting to fantasize about being poor to suck up that quote unquote quote working class vitality which is all nonsense. Yeah I mean I was just GonNa ask you guys. Have you guys ever eaten anything. Funky when you've been fucked up before you know eat dog food or or something like that one of your home. Eases try bacon time. You're like okay. I'm begging bids users. Yes I never never that I did accidental nevermind. Sad story the This is I mean I accidentally drink carpet cleaner one but that was just because my roommate's sister Mr was a doofus and she put the carpet cleaner which looked like water into one of my water bottles to spray on the carpet. And I couldn't tell the water not my fault last question I have nongoma. The famous architect said the made in her husband referred him as a kind of holy figure. This was always very curious to me. Did you guys come away with anything regarding that weird. I kind of what I came away with was what am I. Suppose to come away with me two. Doesn't someone say something at the end to like like kind of like mock worshiping. The famous NAM goon in this job yet. Yeah I don't know what the deal is. I mean the home almost it. It kind of looks like a Not Quite a prairie style but it Kinda has the clean lines of a full of a Frank Lloyd Wright now I know that like prairie style and craftsman architecture heavily heavily influenced by eastern lines as well so I so I know that there's like an integration between a lot of western architecture and eastern architecture could that at be another kind of you know like a a worshiping of Western design or Western innovation art art technology. Something I mean. I'm really stretching it here but I don't know that would make more sense if he was a Western architect but yeah I don't know I I don't have any answers anyway Tonight one but anyway Anything else you guys want to bring up before we go in the mail bag. Yeah I was just GonNa say real quick I did find it interesting also the the bit that the husband is like. Yeah if if you are wearing those like poured cheap panties then. That'll really turn me on sort of thing. Which is which is pretty interesting to think about right like like everyone else thinks like the the Kim family is like? Oh you know. We'll be happy once we get into this like like when you're when you're rich year everything gets ironed out. I think the mom says at one point the Dow is but then so they're trying to role play to be as though they're rich into to to bask in like having a bath and watching. TV for a long long period of time but then again the rich they're not ultimately satisfied because remember the husband at one point when he's talking with the the dad when he's driving he's like yeah. We'll call it love like when dad when the when the data's like do you really love her. He's like yeah. Sure we'll call it love so you're kind of like. Oh okay. So they love. I also love in that scene. It's always a hard cut from Mr Kim to Mr Park. But when he asks but you love her her right it's actually a whip pan back tomb. Mr Park is a great moment. Yeah and he and he in the husband Mr Park is. You're you're like you're almost thinking lemos crossed the line. He's crossed the line right. Has He crossed the line and then he laughs and it it was a really lovely moment of like directorial tension there but really interesting scene. I thought yeah absolutely all right. We are going to go into the mail bag. We're going to go into some voicemails. We smells hit US up at two one elf. Hot Oh seven or two one three five three four eight zero seven. We got some spider verse. voicemails let's start art with foul. Hey show needing crew outside. Oh here just wanted to drop a quick note about the into the spider verse and Specifically with jared had a question about the blurry doubling in the animation This was actually just an Omani to the way that older comic books were printed. They used to print in passes each color of page one color at a time and sometimes the pages wouldn't align exactly therefore producing that Lori doubled look So I love everything. WISECRACKS does so keep up the good work thank you al.. Yes Amanda who works with US informed me of that after the podcast. And Yeah thank you so much. We're GONNA go with one from Maya. Practice is my from Dallas I was. He's getting a cough about the movie into the spider verse. We've looks like we're having an issue with finding out What he learned after he lost his uncle? And nobody for all of the multi-diverse spider men and women is that they all sound lost study had lost The animated girl with a robot lost her parents You know then you are lost his girl so so. Did you hear the other Parker from the other universe. They all lost and then they became spider-man Not because you know they were vegetable title or felt you know that they needed to but it inspires them to be spider man. So the lost makes the net Which is kind of runny team for all this fighter then in women in this movie That was just my take on each Let's hear what you have to say about that. And maybe go a little further on that theory. Sorry thanks my. I really like how the movie has. The every character has their kind of alteration on the Ben Story on how there's it's just some and I hadn't actually thought about that until my I brought it up. I knew that there was uncle. Aaron versus Uncle Ben's kind of Ab thing going across the multi verse. But yes. She's right all. The spider people have lost something. And it's always a kind of an alteration of the Peter Parker Uncle Ben thing that few superchargers their origin story. So that's pretty cool okay We got one actually. Let's just go into the emails because we've got some about parasite so you can hit us up at movies out wise crack Dot Co.. This one's from Brian. Brian says hey longtime listener sner first time writing in just wanted to say you all rule and that parasite is the best movie of two thousand nineteen possibly more than a few years before to. I've never felt more realized in film than here. I'm an American who teaches English in China and the separation of class. The phone nobility of money and the scamming going on at all different levels of society are omnipresent. Isn't I've literally seen done. The trick rich people to hire friends and family stick because people felt it was the only way to get ahead. It's a sad state of affairs and I'm not sure how to fix it but addressing it couldn't hurt also time with joker. I think this is how one bad day really turns out. The Dad didn't become an anti hero. Super Villain he had to live a whole for the rest of his life. The poor don't flip out and hurt thousands. They don't have that reach anyway. I hope you guys can talk about this film. It's got plenty to discuss at slash rage rage at from Brian. Yeah yeah that's good. Do you guys think it's the best film twenty nineteen. I wo- a climax for that distinction. Listen thank you very much. Good one man may be. I'm trying to think what else I liked this year. I really liked midsummer. What else what else? What else I know? You have a list Brian. What else what else is on your list? let's see here. I'm so glad you asked jurors. I'm picturing like a cartoon. You know when they take out the role all and they like unroll it and it just like do every year he does it just so happened to have it right here. So my number one climax ax to mid Somare three parasite I will go through all of them but good boys is four. I love good boys. John Lennon sees five. Oh Fuck Yeah. Of course Yeah Spiderman. Actually seven joker. I really like those movies toy story for ten. I would have to say mid Somare ars this movie. Those are probably the top. I wasn't crazy about toy story. Four anyway chronicles loose cannons legend of the House Mirage. Then movies fucking awesome written written and directed by wisecracker editor Mark Potts. If you have Amazon prime go check that movie out. He made it for less money than you would believe. And it's hilarious all right. This one is from Derek. He says Bong Juninho always has strong messages of class in his films which is extremely apparent apparent parasite one thing I haven't been able to figure out is when Kim Killed Mr Park when Jessica dies. It's clear from the guest reaction that unlike like the park boy. An employee wasn't worth protecting when they kill the old housekeeper it through a fight for survival and still is to some extent accidental. However when Kim Kills Mr Park I haven't been able to find any commentary other than Kim simply having had enough of being humiliated? Is there something more here or is this just a plot point to get us to Kim's fugitive status from Derek. I think it's that and it's very subtle but he sees Mr Park hold his nose rose when he turns over the The husband the guy from the lair to get the keys and he's just reminds him of the fact that You know the poor are so debased that they're almost sub-human they don't even smell like human beings just killing poorly though. I think that it goes back to the thing. He told his son where he said like. I don't have a plan. You know so this was just like such a on the spot decision that was so consequential but I don't have a plan this. I'm just doing this you know fuck fuck the consequences. If I can't see my family anymore you know this is what I wanted to do in this moment and to me. We haven't really talked about this. But I I kind of feel like this whole movie has a subplot of like ambition. You know like like like like literally says he has no ambition. He's like if you have none then you will get hurt Mike. And that's how he wants to live his life and he it works for him and that's how he's taught his whole family whereas you do like. Yeah we've talked about. You know how this rich family kind of sucking off the needs of this family but at the end of the day this the you know this. VR expert or whatever he is making a killing in the VR game. And that's their family has the money and it probably took a lot of ambition to get to that point you. Oh and his wife doesn't have it but she's along for the ride 'cause she's his wife or whatever so I feel like and then at the very end it's like you have the sun sitting there going. I'm now go you you know I have no play like my dad like I learned from my father but now I have a lot of ambition in. It's all to save my dad. You know who has no. Yeah and I think I think we're we're meant to feel both positive and negative feelings about that ambitious plan that the sun has in one sense sense. It's like an admirable aspiration and another sense that that's why the stare into the camera is so powerful I think because it's almost a blank stare. It's a neutral stare and it's it's almost like meant for us to think That that there's like an ambiguity about this aspiration to climb the social ladder. Because it's it's got some good things like yeah I WANNA help free my dad but at the same time at what cost what are the consequences that have led me to this place you know in like even if I do climb the social latter will I ever fit in. Can I ever get the stench off of me. Initially going so far out of their way to not play by the rules because they thought that they had to. You know like they're like trying to do everything they're putting so much effort to doing the wrong thing because they think it gives them one little job but when in reality you know like in his little fantasy at the end if he's going to work his way up get do it. The normal way and then earn wealth like a normal functioning never society. I feel like like like this is the this is Blanquita Ho in the the weird since the weird movies way of having them come to that rounded out decision you know for good reasons because at the end of the day you like you get you make money to help your family and this is very literally have tried to make money to just to help us family savings dead. I did want to say one thing that I forgot to mention like earlier. But it just like my memory just got sparked from from that email for whatever reason but In psychoanalysis psychoanalysis sometimes it's often referred to as the return of the repressed and so people who use psychoanalysis as a cultural tool to kind of criticize. Let's say the elements of society that are buried under right like Our iphones for example are actually bearing slave labor from coltan mines in the Republic of Congo. But it's really easy for us to brush over that and forget about it and so we kind of like we. We neglected but the idea is that eventually you can you can't you can't neglect that. which you have repressed forever and so I think you kind of get that in this right that at the end of the reason the dad freaks out when the when the father plugs his nose is that he's been trying trying to bury it and be like? Oh it's okay. I smell a little bit but I can you know we can just wash our clothes with different laundry detergent or whatever but then when the father plugs his nose that's the return of the repressed. You can't ever actually get rid of that which has been held down entirely and so then it it It bursts I out if you will and kind of like a violent unconscious rage which is actually what friends phenomenon refers to it as in wretched of the about like is unconscious rage. That comes out and the thing I think and the thing I wanted to add about this scene that That Derek brought up is that one thing we've forgotten is that he's dressed as a native native American when he snaps guys. WanNa talk about return. The Roy S. Galeano Yeah and and that scene were. He's he's telling. Mr Mr Parkas telling Mr Kim that hey you know you're gonNA have to get up and act you know. Start running around and my son shoot you and Mr Kim's like I don't want to do that and he's like Mr Parks like I'm paying extra for this. You must do this job. And it's yeah completely debasement anymore. We're GONNA say Ryan I was just GonNa say I'm just to be clear. I do think the ending is like a tragic ending like like I think that he has this ambition. Fuck you just hit with a over the head with a rock. He's I don't think that he's literally. I think the the innings open ended also is supposed to be kind of a Downer in the sense that he doesn't like. I don't think sorry. The fantasies saying at the end is not going to happen. Like this kid is like going. Yeah certainly not at the age that they show him so again certainly not the age they show him they show him in his fantasy in a suit walking up at the age of twenty something. He's probably talking to take him a good. Twenty five years to accumulate all that wealth. Exactly if you think this kind of a pipe dream and that also is part of of of you you know. The tragedy of the ending is like like like it took him to get to that realization but now he's even in worse Worse situation than before to achieve any of that you know because of all the decisions that they made Through the movie with two things. Is it a pipe dream or is it just the dream that we call the the American dream or the hapless success rate. That's what he's trying to talk about. The movie is that like the emission at the end is not necessarily a good thing. Yeah and then. Here's my I literally just thought of this because he doesn't literally die but he does sustain brain damage and he has to have brain surgery so is there a sense in which it's the only reason that he can come to that quote unquote realization. That I must now like Berry this. This rock down into my unconscious if we're GONNA go with with that interpretation and then buy into this narrative altogether that I will become rich. Because he says I'm going to forsake family and kids and I'm just going to get rich. I so is there a sense in which he almost it has to die to himself because up until that point has whole ambition his motivation has been family oriented. He helps his sister who helps the father who helps the mother right. It's all about the family. They are the day are like the primary Entity that concerns him but after this fucked the family. It's about just just getting rich. I now granted. It's so that he can get into the house so he can release his father. I think even yeah even at the end I was just wondering if like he almost like quote unquote metaphorically dies and then resurrected into a new life or something. I can't help my spiritual themes but it's guys bad resurrection and I don't I don't know guys we're going to sign off work. We find you guys on the Internet Ryan. I am on funhouse sometimes. Also so Ryan's game show Ryan shorts on facebook all sorts of leadership will go look out there and Austin Yo so oh I am becoming much more active. I listen I almost died so I have like a whole new lease on life so I've decided to up my brand up my content shit so I'm gonNA throw myself into this game of am bishen impure positively and embraced capitalism. But I'm still but I'm still going to do it from a critical perspective and not compromise on my principles which means I'm producing a lot more content on Insta- US you can follow me on instagram. A US underscore H. Y.. I still got my twitter Austin Underscore Hayden. I have the other podcasts that I do I was at dawn. But what I've done in jared red. You might be interested in this. I'm doing a read through the Bible on a new youtube channel that I just started we. I only have like a couple of hundred subscribers so far but go to YouTube. If you're interested in hearing like a post evangelical critical philosophical mythological reading of the Bible. I'm GonNa read the whole Bible in a year from Genesis to revelation and and then I'm just gonNA spitball ideas uploading video most days pretty

Mrs Kim Mr Park South Park Kim Kevin jared Kim Family Ryan Ryan Sydney joker Mr Kim murder United States Bongino Mrs Park Paul Thomas Anderson Austin Bong Jun Ho California Ball Juninho
K2: The Savage Mountain | The Final Descent | 3

Against The Odds

54:42 min | 3 d ago

K2: The Savage Mountain | The Final Descent | 3

"Join us to listen to against the odds one week early and add free and the wonderful app. Download the ones app in your apple or google. Play mobile app store today. It's pitch dark and cost. Vondra is exhausted but his mind is surprisingly clear not exactly sharp but at least his reflexes are decent after climbing for twenty four hours though his body aches and weighs he's never felt before he knows he has to keep moving out here on the mountain and at the south of tude if you stopped to rest. There's a good chance you won't wake up. This is cast as i climb above twenty six thousand feet. He was thrilled when his friend wilco. One rian invited him be part of the dutch nor team the to us to fix up houses together and he's joined him on several climbing trips while he knew the risks of climbing k two he knows wilco was a strong leader. He had planned the trip down to every last detail but cast lost him somewhere on the snowfield along with his other teammates. Now he's alone. Cast focus on the ledge under his feet. At least he's found the fixed line laid by the trail. Breakers the ropes should guide him back across the traverse down the bottleneck back to camp four. He just needs to stay alert. And the focus has only his ice axe and the crampons to help them along the icy ledge. It's slow going. The only sounds are his breathing and the ancient groans of the mountains shifting. Its weight when he looks up. He startled to see someone's headlamp and the distance someone wearing a dark yellow suit when he gets closer. Cast season belongs to a familiar face. It's huge job. Rate a french climber. He and hugh took pitches together on the summit just a few hours ago at sixty one years old. Hugh is the second oldest person to ever summit k. to at the peak he was overflowing with joy laughing and hugging other climbers but now he stopped his face pressed against the. I swat breathing heavily. He ran out of oxygen hours ago. Q r u k. Still here but you go first. And i'll follow your faster than me. Okay but don't stay too long. Cast clips his harness and steps around. The french climber thing continues down feeling his way with the dark mountain night. But then the rope comes to an end. Cass aims his headlight below piles of snow and ice debris litter. The bottleneck there must have been avalanche. Luckily someone has screwed in a new anchor close by and also tied on a rope cass clips on and begins to repel down backwards. The rope takes him to the top of the bottleneck but then it ends two. You'll need to make his way down the steep dangerous slope on his own with nothing to guide him. He glances up to see if hugh was falling behind but no sign of yet cast digs his axe into the ice and starts to make his way down step by step when he hears the sound at first. He's not sure what it is. He looks to the left trying to pierce through the mess of the night. That's when he sees a body plunging headfirst through the bottleneck recognizes. The suit is hugh cast takes a few frantic steps aiming his headland into the darkness but he used body is already gone swallowed up by the mountain. He tries to double his pace when he gets to the bottom the radio down and tell them what he saw. Maybe just maybe someone can help now. He needs to focus on getting down safely himself. We get support from. Adt no matter what you wanna protect. Nobody has more experience helping. Keep it safe than eighty. I mean check this out. They've received the most burglar alarm events in the industry and help save more lives than any other home security provider. They were called the best home security system of two thousand twenty by us news and the number one smart home security provider by strategy analytics in two thousand twenty eight t has over twenty thousand employees experience in helping. Keep you safe. That's twenty four seven peace of mind from the creators of the home security. Category experience matters. That's why millions of people trust. Adt to protect what matters most and to keep them safe get all the latest security upgrades from the largest name and home security by visiting adt dot com today. At stands for quality and timeless protection visit att dot com today brought to you by marvel studios loki and original series. Now streaming only on disney. Plus tom hit allston returns as everyone's favourite imperious god of mischief as he ventures outside of time and space in the six episode event. Also starring owen wilson google bath raw. And we'll miyako. The series takes place after the events of ventures. Endgame don't miss marvel studios loki key and original series now streaming only on disney plus from wondering. I'm mike corey and this is against the odds on august first. Two thousand and eight. A group of climbers from all over the world attempted to summit the world's most dangerous mountain a to within twenty four hours. Three of those climbers were debt. Free others are entangled in ropes hanging onto life by just a thread. The rest are making their way down the mountain in complete darkness. The hours spent in the auction draining. Death zone have sapped their energy. The altitude is playing tricks on their minds and the ropes. The climbers need for the most crucial part of the descent called. The bottleneck have been swept away by avalanches. It's a race against the clock for the remaining climbers to get off the mountain. It's too late. This is episode three the final descent pemba. Sherpa reaches camp four at one thirty. Am along with two other. Sherpas cheering dior jay from the american team and pasang lama from the korean team. They are greeted by two members from the american team. Doctor eric meyer and his teammate. Frederic strong they hand the climbers hot tea to help them more up. But ama- can't keep the t. Down he walks outside and throws up. What little there is in his stomach when he comes back. Eric gives him some medicine than the group sits down to speak tells them about the difficult journey down from the traverse. the rope line was severed. An avalanche cheering tells them how they couldn't get the other climbers to move. They had used all their strength to get to the summit and they were disoriented and losing muscle coordination. We tried to guide them to traverse but they kept falling asleep and clipping from. The rope was a disaster. There was nothing we could do. Eric nods every climber knows the risks someting mountain like k to each person needs to make his or her own decisions. No one can force anyone to anything. Pemba tells them about the conditions. He's never seen anything like it in his years of climbing. All the rope line in the bottleneck was gone torn to pieces and buried under piles of snow. They had to navigate down in the dark listening to the cracking sounds from the sarah above that threatened to crash down on their heads. An avalanche almost took the sang out but cheering dior. J. saved him when they reached the bottom. They tried to radio up to warn the others but there was no answer. It was with heavy hearts. They walk the last hours back to camp four. The americans also have bad news. Three climbers have died including rolf bay from the norwegian team. Swept away by the avalanche. Hembo asks if they've heard anything from his dutch. North teammates will go casts and jer. No one has pemba knows. They're all strong climbers. They came more prepared than almost anyone on the mountain. But no one is prepared for night in the death zone or temperatures can drop to twenty below. He makes his way to the tent. He shares with drew mcdonald but when he sees jurors empty sleeping bag and all of his things. He's overcome with sadness. Ger is a close friend. They climb mount everest together and often talked long into the night about life and their families. Now his irish friend is alone on the dark mountain and endanger. He can't bear the thought of sleeping in the tent alone. So he moves to the tent of talian climber marco comfort tola who is also still lost on the mountain. Pemba drink more water to hydrate and tucks into a sleeping bag. You'll need to rest and replenish his energy. If his team is in backed by morning he may need to go up and rescue them casavant. Behavioral isn't sure what time it is. When he finally reaches the bottom of the bottleneck. he knows his. He's lucky he pulls out his radio and spins through the frequencies trying to get someone on the line. He finally reaches roland one of his dutch nor teammates at base. Camp ro ro. i'm still in the mountain. but i'm through the bottleneck. I'm okay but the french clamor. Hugue i think he fell. I saw a body go by. I look from on the way down. But i couldn't find him and jer and pemba are they with you know no. We were separated. I don't know where they are. I'm going to make my way to camp four. I can't feel my feet. As cast begins the final trek across the snowfield. He sees headlamps approaching. Its two sherpas from the korean team. They're looking for their cousin. Julich and the other korean climbers cast asked if anyone has made it back down they not pemba sherpa. He was with cheering and pasang be passed them on the way cast. Ask them to keep their eye out for hugh but in his heart he knows the clamor is gone and then he heads for camp. Four gomez son battles her way down the mountain pulling freezing mountain air into her lungs. Her oxygen cylinder expired hours ago every once in a while she can see the twinkle of a headlamp far far ahead. It belongs to mr kim. The korean leader they left chewing and the others to try to find another way down now. She's lost at the top of the traverse. she finds the severed rope. But where is the line hocus pocus. Then she finds the second row hooked into an anchor down below. She can see mr kim. Making his way down the bottleneck. She climbs down and begins to pick her way along using her ice axes until she reaches the long angled snowfield at the bottom. When she looks she can no longer see. Mr kim's headland at all mr kim. Her voice echoes across. The dark slopes no response. She's alone on the pitch dark mountain and now the wind is picking up. She's climbed eleven of the world's tallest peaks. She's gotten through difficult situations before she can do this but as she tries to feel her way along the ice her mind starts to muddle. Her sense of direction is completely lost. Suddenly she runs into an outcropping check rocks. They're covered in ice snow. This wasn't here on the way that she could turn around balancing carefully she steps from one rock to the next but then she gets stuck. She can't move up or down and she can't see a thing for all. She knows she's about to walk off a cliff. She sits down on a boulder and puts her head in her hands. It's so cold. She can feel her body shutting down. She banks gloved hands together to keep the circulation going. Her eyes start to close she so tired. Suddenly she's sitting at a would table or eighty three year. Old father sits across her. Call me son. He says everyone is so proud of you. South korea is so proud. His face is round and warm like the sun inviting calling to her flight. Horizon snap awake. She can't fall asleep. she needs something to do. She takes off her headlamp and checks the batteries. Maybe the arc of light will guide someone towards her but with each passing minute. She feels herself growing colder and colder. She knows soon hypothermia will set in and then she sees lights moving up the mountain. Mr kim. dd. It's the shirtless. Serving and big. D is their pet name for her. It means big sister in nepali. They are jumex cousins. Her favorite sherpa as they draw closer. She cries out mr kim. Where's mr kim. don't worry he's back at camp four. He told us to come. Look for you and make. where's humic it's quiet for a moment. Then by son speaks up is still on the mountain. Her heart sinks. She was the one who urged to join the expedition. This her fault maybe she should go back and look for him but she can't think jimmy will be okay. He's strong. We need to get you back to camp. Four big pasang pollster free from the raw and clips for safety harness to their own the rope at four thirty a m. They delivered ghomi son to mr kim's tent tears in his eyes. Thank you searing. Thank you big pasang. The two men nod respectfully and head back to the mountain they must find germ mcdonald opens his eyes. It's five am. He survived the night on the mountain in subzero temperatures without a sleeping bag above them. The dawn is bathing k. Two's craggy flanks impeach colored light jerk can hardly see. His eyelids are encrusted with ice. But as the first rays of the sun began to warm him he slowly comes to life. Marco are you marco comfort tola quickly jumps to his feet. Were alive jer. Let's get wilco. Go and find a way down. A hundred meters away. Wilco is already awake stamping his feet trying to restore circulation and warm up his limbs. The ropes have to be close by. I think we should split up. If one of us finds them we can call out to the others. Wilco walks off in one direction and mark wgr at the opposite way but as wilco walks. He's just as confused as he was the night before. Everything looks the same and there is no sign of the ropes. He has a pounding headache. Why is the so hard then. His eyes start to blur and he realizes what's happening to him. His eyes are literally being burned by the sun's ultraviolet light. The headache is part of that. But it's also likely fluid building up in his brain from lack of oxygen a condition called cerebral at dima. If there's any chance of surviving he needs to get down now row or no rope. He quickly makes his way back to marco jer. Listen guys if i go snow blind. I won't be able to look for anything and you guys can't carry me in your condition. I just need to go down and then without a goodbye. We'll go walks away. Jer watches wilco. Get further and further away and says a prayer that is team leader will be all right. Then he turns to marco as find this damn rope already okay. They slowly trace their steps back to the rich under the looming ceramic and make their way across and then they find it. The first anchor tied around the rope. Marco this is it. He and marco quickly clip in and begin to make their way across the snow during the lead. he's so focused on the task that when he stumbles upon the scene. He's not quite sure what he's seeing on the snow in front of them hanging from row. His harness has wrapped around his feet. A camera dangles from his neck. His face is bruised and his eyes are closed. Another climber hangs upside down just below him groaning in pain attached to the same row. A third is tangled up slightly above them like a spider caught the mountains web. He's blue gray in color from frostbite and he's missing a boot but he's still alive. Jer recognizes them immediately. It's the sherpa. Boteh and two climbers from the korean team. But how did they get here. Maybe an avalanche swept him over the side. It calls a weekly lease. Do you see my boot jerk quickly and clips from his harness and makes his way down to the korean clamor caught upside down. He gently lift his head to help him breathe. Ger has always been deeply inspired by sherpa codes of loyalty and respect for human life. They will need more people to help free the men from the ropes but at least they can make them more comfortable. He tells marco to give him a hand to try and loosen the rope. He's afraid to cut it entirely and could send all of them hurtling down the mountain for marco fines and ice axe and a knife and quickly cuts off. Length the rope then he jams the acts into a crack in the ice and secures one end to the handle. He ties the other end around the clamps. Waste and the to open. The man's harnessed as marco cradles. The man's head jer takes the weight of the tangling body and the lower down as they tend to the climbers. Jerry leans down and whispers into each man's ear. You're gonna be okay helps here when you're managing a team. It can be hard to get everyone on the same page. I mean literally and figuratively. What page in that document needs tweaking of agreeing on the same problem. We're solving while giving and receiving feedback gracefully. It's all one big pain point and add freelances to the mix. How are you ever going to get organized. But with five or business. It's easy to find an managed top talent. Five or business gives you access to an all star team of super freelancers plus all the tools and support. You need to easily integrate them into your existing workflow. They've even got a team of dedicated business. Success managers to help match you with the best talent for your team. No more endless guessing and interviews once. You've found that perfect freelancer. With five or business you can collaborate with your team managed projects and even share freelancers. All in one workspace besides voice in this podcast for wondering. I also have youtube page. And i'm always managing editors and storyboarding and trying to get graphic designers altogether on the same page and it often gets complicated but with five or business collaborating online. Hasn't been this easy since ever and right now you can sign up for five or business absolutely free for your first year get one free year and save ten percent on your purchase on five or business with promo code the odds just to five dot com slash business. And don't forget the promo code the odds it's a case that has haunted jefferson township new jersey for more than thirty years on a snowy january night. Fourteen year. old. Tommy sullivan did the unthinkable. He murdered his mother in cold. Blood set fire to their house and then took his own life out of the flames of this horrible tragedy. Investigations revealed that tommy was himself part of a satanic cult sparking a nationwide hysteria now known as the satanic panic this monumental moment in american culture led to communities nationwide and forcing draconian measures to protect their children from what they perceived to be the devil's influence. Even the catholic church was convinced this was a case of demonic possession. On the new podcast. The devil within the truth of the grisly murder is finally revealed. Subscribe to the devil within on apple. Podcasts amazon music. Or wherever you listen to podcasts you can also binge the entire series right now early and add free when you join wondering plus in the wondering app it's seven am and wilco. Von on ruin. Feels like he's dying from thirst his throat as parched and his tongue drying he wants to put a fistful of snow into his mouth to ease the pain but he can't it would drop heat from his core. She desperately needs. He's completely lost again. He had climbed down as far as he could go and hit a steep overhang so he had to go back now. He has no idea where he is. His eyes feel like they're on fire and every few steps he falls asleep leaning on his ice axe. He talks to himself to try and stay awake. Okay wilco watch your step. He's setting now just three steps forward. Three steps can do three steps. Watch your balance. and then. miraculously. He finds the rope. He has no idea how it got here but he's filled with gratitude. He quickly clips on and makes his way forward only to find the same thing. Other climbers before him discover the severed rope. His vision is so blurry he doesn't see the second row instead. Like pemba sherpa. Before him he begins the climbed down past the first row alpine-style with only his ice axe and crampons but the sun is beating down on his head and he is so very tired finally he simply stops like a wind up toy on. Its last click. This is it. He thinks this is where it all lance marco. Comfort told us energy is flagging. But he knows he needs to help juror with the korean climbers who are tangled up in the row still. There's only so much they can do. They've been here for nearly two hours and they're both exhausted. But you're refuses to give up. As marco works on untangling a not. He looks up. Jurists finished laying the top clamor carefully onto the snow. The korean climbers are no shape to move but at least they're a bit more comfortable suddenly jour- starts up the mountain marco's confused. Why is he doing jerk. Where are you going. come back. But you're keeps climbing. Marco calls out again. But jer doesn't turn around moments later he disappears under the ceramic. Marco is stunned has the night spent freezing on the mountain. Driven jared sane. Should he chase after his friend or should he go back down he so incredibly tired if he goes up he may not make it back. He asked to save himself as he turns away. He sees a microphone. Peaking out of jumex coat but there's no radio attached. It must have become dislodged in the fall after a few minutes. Searching he finds it in the snow and radios back to camp four. Hello hello do you hear me. I'm here near the ceramic and there are people here they need help. I'm tired please. send somebody up. He listens for a response of voice on the other end to tell them. It'll be ok. help us coming. But there's nothing. Marco is on his own frederick strang peers up. The mountain. the day is clear but it looks like clouds are starting to roll. In certain altitudes strang has been monitoring conditions from camp four watching for climbers since dawn along with his teammate. Dr eric meyer now. It's mid morning. Occasionally they catch a glimpse of tiny figures high on the mountain near the traverse. But no one's come in since komi son was brought in by the sherpas then strang see something odd erik komo here. You see that. Eric pops out of his tent. They're right there above the ceramic. It's alone figure climbing in the opposite direction towards tibet. The altitude must have got to his brain. Can you see who it is. But the climate is too far away and growing more distant strang calls the other climbers together including pemba sherpa. Who knows the mountain better than anyone now. Should they attempt to rescue. But everyone agrees. It's not safe. Not with the unpredictable avalanches and the rope line destroyed. There are too few people without enough equipment. They hardly have enough food or water at camp four for themselves. Attempting rescue now would be a suicide mission so for now they'll have to stay marco. Comfort tola is somewhere on the bottleneck. At least that's where. He thinks he is. The rope is gone as he clambers down. His legs feel heavy like blocks of wood. He's not sure how many more steps you can take. And then he hears a familiar rumble somewhere on the top and avalanche when he hears the first rock and icefall his way he tries to talk himself against the wall and make himself small his heart is pounding and he starts to pray and then. It's hear thundering cascade of isis snow before it envelopes completely and suddenly stops marco looks up to see a few large chunks of ice and debris tumble passed along with a pair of yellow boots. He knows boots. They belong to german donal glass time he saw them. They were on jurists feet. As he walked up the mountain marco sinks to his knees. He can't do this anymore. This is too much but he can't die here on the mountain. He stumbles up again and he takes a few steps. Then he false. He's too weak. He can't even pick up his legs so he begins to crawl forward on his hands and knees inch by inch. Then emerging out of the clouds abc's to figures he must be loosening but as the get closer. He recognizes their suits. It's two of the sherpas and the korean team. Jumex cousins for the first time in more than twenty four hours relief washes over him and then passes out Pemba sits in his tents at camp for flipping through the walkie talkie dials. Trying to reach someone anyone on the mountain. Some of the others have packed up and headed down to base camp but penn bang casts have decided to stay. They still have to teammates on the mountain. Others are up there to at least. Eight climbers by his account. Bemba's seen miracles happen before. Maybe they'll find him on an expedition to show you the six highest peak in the world. He saw climbers survived for more than four days without oxygen. Sleeping bags or food. it can happen here to. His teammates are strong at mid-day. Here's the familiar crackle of the radio. It's jewish cousin big pasang. We found someone he crawled towards us and then he collapsed but he's alive. What color is a suit. It's black and green. And the knows who it is. It's marco compared tola the he's in pretty bad shape. We need to keep going to find you. Mick we're just below the bottleneck. Can you come. Pemba feels a jolt of energy. someone is alive. He needs the help them quickly searches the remaining tents for extra oxygen. Marco will need it then he talks to. The remaining climbers camp four to see if anyone else wants to go but no one volunteers. They're all exhausted. Conditions are too dangerous. The only one who offers to assist is his teammate casts but as soon as the to set out it's clear casts on even make it across the vast snowfield his descent early this morning depleted. Every last ounce of energy pemba tells him to stay. he'll carry on. Wilco is furious spent months studying k. Two and new the descent would be the hardest and most difficult part. Why did he leave. Gps device in strobe light behind is finally found a slightly flatter part on the route but now the clouds have rolled in grip fills. His is his mouth is badly parched and his anger turns to fear he turns around in circles but can't see through the fog he thought he was going down. Maybe he's turned in the opposite direction. He needs to do something. He pulls out his satellite phone but he can't see the numbers. He had programmed in the only number. He remembers his home wilco. It's his wife helene. Welcome where are you. I don't know helene somewhere on the mountain. you need to call martin and tell them to call basecamp. Tell them. I think i'm below the bottlenecks somewhere. He tries to keep his voice calm. We'll go with the others. No no we got separated. I'm alone okay. i'll call martin and wilco. Please hold on. We'll go hangs up the phone and begins. The blindly walked forward. Hoping it's down. It's early afternoon. When pemba fines. Italian climber marco comfort tola he knew marco would be dazed and exhausted. But it's far worse than that. He's missing both his hat and gloves. And as soon as unzipped his eyes are closed when pemba checks pulse. Marco's eyes fly open. Who were you. it's me. I'm sherpa the dutch nor team. I'm here to help. He gently places the oxygen mask over the climbers mouth. But marco's not having it he tries to fight him off. It's okay markle just breath. It's going to be okay. Here's the radio squawk it's big. We found jewish. He's alive bring him down and the breezes sigh of relief. Have you seen anyone else. We saw one other but he was hit by an icefall. He was in a black and red suit. Germ mcdonalds suit is black and red betrays to push the thought from his mind right now. He needs to get marco off the mountain. He's helping the climber into a sitting position when he hears the roar. Another avalanche moments later. A way of snow falls over them followed by fragments. Alexi wrong it sounds like hundreds of metal balls or through a shoot with frigid gusts of wind. You looks up and sees a tangle of bodies in climbing equipment. Berteling down the mountain and grouches over marco and grabs his soon to keep from sliding down when it's over pemba approaches the tangle of human wreckage. There are two bodies wrapped and ropes. Their suits are ripped. Her faces. bruce f- first pet doesn't recognize them but when he kneels down he sees that it's big pasang and his cousin julich the two cousins lie head to toe wrapped together in death's embrace beyond them are two more bodies in the snow. They are wearing red down. Suits like the ones worn by the korean team but also term mcdonnell. Pemba takes a few photos to show. The other climbers who are waiting anxiously for news of their teams. Then he heads. Back to marco marco. We need to go down. It's not safe. He pulls out a rope and attached himself to marco's harness and then leads him down the rest of the slope across the snow back camp for when they arrive. Pemba tells the korean team what happened to their teammates. And sherpa helpers they are utterly crushed but there's still one climber up there in the death zone and while pemba has gone word came in from base camp. That wilco used his phone to call home. He's alive but the sun will be setting so mba's slips into cast as tend. How are you feeling. I'm okay. let's go find wilco. Kick your summer off in style with the brand. That's reinventing men's basics. Mac walden mac. Weldon is so much more than just underwear. Their full collection includes t shirts polos button up shorts pants swimwear and so much more with light and breathable fabric technology macworld and keeps you cool and comfortable all summer from work to working out. Happy hour to playing with your kids. 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Am on sunday. august third. His feet are completely numb. He's nearly snow blind and every cell in his body is screaming for oxygen but he made it through another night on the mountain at twenty five thousand feet in subzero temperatures the night before he got a second wind after speaking to his friend. Martin by phone martin was trying to track movements by plotting the gps coordinates through the phone signals. Martin told him to hang on. Think of helene and your son he said and don't fall asleep so he tried to continue but when the sunset it didn't make sense to go on. It was too dangerous. He had to dig in. That's when he saw the bodies one in the yellow suit another a few yards further up. He had no idea who they were but it was too late to move anywhere else. He scraped out a snow hole with his gloves and settled in. He slept an hour. Maybe two it was the longest night of his life now here. He sits perched on a ledge watching the sunrise. If every cell in his body wasn't screaming out in pain he'd enjoy this moment the quiet of the mountain the sparkle of the snow. Not many people get to see rob. You'd like this but he needs to get up. That's what helene told them to keep. Moving chris clunky steps out of his tent at base camp. It's august third just after five. Am clunky has been awake. Most of the night scanning the mountain with his binoculars. He was certain he saw someone up there the night before he was wearing a bright orange suit he hopes the daylight more. Give him a better view. Clunky is on the american team. He's blonde and burley with a broad open face when he is in climbing mountains. He's an executive at american express. So he knows about risk management when he the other members of the american team. So the line of the bottleneck two days ago. They decided to turn back. They reached base camp yesterday morning and quickly set up a line of telescopes and binoculars. To monitor the mountain for survivors clunky squint into the dawn and brings his binoculars to his eyes. There is again a small orange dot slowly picking its way across the southern face of the mountain. Roland gal come out here. he's back. Roland is from the dutch north team. All four of his teammates are missing. He rushes over to the telescope. Yeah that's wilko's suit but what is doing. I can't tell he looks like he's about three hundred feet above camp three clunky. Here's another shout. Look another climber above camp three. It's one of the serbian clamours. It's cash they're so close to each other get him on the radio. He's up in camp. Three climber frantically searches through the frequencies. Himba hello hello are you there. Pemba jolts awake at the sound of iraq crashing onto his tent at camp three he in casts search for wilco. Most of the night but then they got separated. Pemba thought they meet up at camp three but cast never showed up. He spent most of the night worrying in his tent. Frantically calling down to base before passing out mba's which is on the radio pemba are you there. We'll go is about six hundred feet from camp three and we saw cast to. He's making his way to you. Penn steps out of his tent looks around. Cast is picking his way across the rock cast. Where were you. I got lost. I had to spend the night on the mountain. Pemba can see cast is exhausted but they both know this is their window. They make their way across the mountain. Keeping their eyes peeled. Basecamp does their best director. Go down down to your left. Showed his name. Maybe he'll you will will call. Yeah that's it. I think he heard you keep yelling. Keep going will go cease to flickering shimer's of color somewhere in the distance. But he can't be sure are they tend to people or is he hallucinating. Then he hears voices but it's like listening through water then the figures get closer. One of them is dressed in blue the other in orange that triggers something familiar in his brain but he can't play sick he staggers towards them but he's lost all feeling in his feet suddenly. He understands that they're climbers. And they're just six hundred feet in front of him. His brain suddenly snaps into focus. That's cass wilco. Stumbles forward into cast is open arms. They shout with joy into the air and cass starts cry. I didn't think we were ever going to meet again. Him calls back to base camp. We've got he's here we'll go was alive. He's alive he's alive. Yes oh my god. I can't believe it he's alive. We'll come up with oxygen and no. There's no time we'll come down. Cast help wilco back to camp. Three where wilko's sucks in oxygen from a tank and cast bulls water for tea when their bodies are hydrated. Himba urges them on they needed to get down before nightfall. Okay guys time to go as the three surviving members of the dutch team near the bottom of the mountain pemba sees something miraculous a dozen mountaineers climbing up from base camp to greet them yelling and cheering. If he wasn't so exhausted. It would feel like a party eric. My quickly brings them into the dutch mess tent which is converted into an emergency medical facility cooks. Boil water to bay the men's feet enhance cheering door. Jay and some of the other sherpas join them in the tent as pemba hot drink cheering tells him he got were dependence family. That he's safe. Eric gives wilco and casts a cocktail of drugs to arrest the effects of snow blindness hypotheses and frostbite. Then he injects them with morphine to relieve their pain. Both climbers look years. Older like the mountain has stolen ten years of their life. Their skin is gray and hangs from their faces cast. His hands are especially bad. The fingers on his left hand are gray and limp with purple streaks running through we'll go ask about the others. They tell him. Eleven climbers lost their lives on k. Two it's one of the worst mountaineering disasters in history. No one says anything after that most of them have lost friends and teammates. Pemba gets up and walks to his tent. He needs to be alone with his thoughts for a while the next morning. Military helicopter takes wilco and cast to a hospital in nearby towns for treatment. A day later a second chopper. Airlifts out italian climber marco comfort tola marco was the last to reach base camp shattered and broken but still alive when the sound of the rotors fade away. Pemba companies some of the other survivors to the art gilkey. Morial gilkey was a climber who died on k two in nineteen fifty-three since then people have decorated the karen of rocks with plaques and flags in memory of all the climbers who lost their lives on k. Two today one of the serbian climbers has made aluminum plaques one for fallen teammate dren mandic and the other for germ mcdonnell the loss of peres. Friend sure weighs on him heavily. It was the irishman who brought him back onto the team. Pemba can still picture him digging about on the summit waving his irish flag when all the plaques are hung the climbers watch quietly as the plates clink against one another in the wind the ting ting echoing across the desolate landscape. Two weeks later. Jurors family holds their own memorial in his home village in county limerick ireland. They hanged betton prayer flags inside the tent and more than one thousand people come pay their respects musicians play. Celtic tunes and friends bring gifts including a badran like the one juror used to play juror. Risk his own life to save others when he found. The three climbers tangled up in row. Though juror was last seen by marco comfort tola. He didn't simply wander off as marco thought he'd gone up the mountain. Secure an anchor and rope to take the weight off the bodies. It was jers way to help others. He is a true hero of the mountains. The recovery for jersey to dutch teammates is an easy especially for wilco. Who has all of his toes amputated to third degree frostbite from his hospital bed. He tries to answer reporters questions. Even though he's exhausted and on painkillers they want to know what went wrong. He tells them collaborating with other teams was the problem. He thinks the dutch team should have tried to summit on their own. He believes the sharing of rome was what caused the delay in the bottleneck will lead to climbers descending on the dark a year later a book about his near death experience. He calls it surviving k. Two three years after the tragedy. He'll climb the highest peak in antarctica. When he's not climbing he lives in a renovated barn in the netherlands with his wife. Helene and his two sons italian climber marco comfort tola has a longer recovery before he climbs again. He'll have three inches of his foot removed along with most of toes and will take them a year just to learn to walk again but soon after he returns to climbing by two thousand eighteen allowed several more stars to the ring of tattoos around his left. Bicep to commemorate all of the twenty eight thousand foot. Peaks is reached south korean climber. Gummy son isn't so lucky. Her goal was to become the first woman to climb the fourteen tallest mountains in the world but less than a year after she reached the summit of k. Two she runs into a wind and ice storm while the sending from her eleventh summit. Nanga parbat the ninth highest mountain in the world in whiteout conditions. She falls from a cliff to her death. Her body is recovered and brought back to korea where she is laid to rest surrounded by her loved. Ones cecilia spook. The other female climber who reached the summit on august first returns home to norway grief-stricken. She lost her husband to and for months she's plagued by thoughts should have gone back to the mountain to look for ralph. Could she have done more. She still has their monica. Roth took two k two a year after the tragedy. She feels the call of the wild again and crosses greenland on skis in twenty ten. She makes the first unassisted crossing event. Artika along with american explorer ryan walter later that year she swaps her down jacket for a sequence that had halter top to appear on dancing with the stars she tells reporters that she's dancing for ralph. Cecilia will go on to climb to more eight thousand meter peaks. The one thing she will never do is returned to k two. It's october two thousand and eight and pemba j. Sherpa stands with his wife and two children before an altar at the big metro. Monastery a holy site in the paul. The smell of sense fills the air pemba presses. His hands together fingers pointing upward. It's been hard for pemba to come to terms with the tragedy k. To today he has come to the monastery to pray with the energy of aspiration for the body sat away with a sense of deep respect and with as many bodies as adams of the world to all you buddha's visualized as real. I bow down pemba and his heroic feats on k. Two have been widely recognized shortly after his return from k. To he was voted one of national geographic's adventurers of the year. But the attention doesn't go to his head true to his sherpa ideals in the coming years. Pemba will continue to help. Save climbers lives in the himalayas. As a trainer in high altitude mountaineering. He often reflects on the disaster on k. Two but he refuses to blame the mountain. He tells a writer people. Call it killer mountain when they are not well. Prepared not have enough experience not enough manpower but it's not like that k. Two very beautiful mountain. This is the final episode of our three part series can to the savage mountain. If you like our show please give us a five star rating and review on our next episode. we'll be talking to one of the climbers who was on k. Two during the incredible events in early august follow against the odds on apple. Podcasts amazon music the wondering app or wherever. You're listening right now. Join us in. The wonder. Listen one week early and add free in the episode notes. You'll find some links offers from our sponsors. Please support them by supporting them. You offer the show for free and a quick note about our scenes in most cases. We can't really know what was said but everything is based on historical research. If you'd like to learn more about this event we highly recommend the book the summit how triumph turned to tragedy on qe. Two's deadliest days by pat balvi and pemba guilty sherpa and no way down by graham boldy. We also recommend the documentary the summit directed by nick. Ryan i'm your host might corey. Simon worrell wrote this episode. Our editor is more walls. Ryan white is our associate producer. Our audio engineer is sergio. And rica's vocal. Edit and sound design is by joe. Richardson original music by francesco. Apollo are executive producers. Are stephanie chance and marshal. Louis for wondering one of the most talked about podcasts of two thousand and nineteen is back hue code presents season two of blackout academy award winner. Rami malek returns in this apocalyptic thriller as a small town radio. Dj fighting to protect his family and community. After the power grid goes down nationwide up ending modern civilization season two picks up right after he and his family escapes. they cross paths with an old family. Friend who recounts her experience getting out of boston but can't be trusted. He won't want to miss this season of blackout. Where old friends and strangers must come together to survive and maybe escape. You'll see that. When all seemed lost to the darkness of the unknown our collective humanity will always shine. Listen to blackout on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever. You're listening now.

mr kim wilco marco tola Pemba Marco hugh Mr kim avalanche pasang marco comfort tola Vondra Wilco mike corey strang dior jay pasang lama rolf bay Hembo
Do-it-Yourself Photography, with Tim Engle

This Week in Photo

23:09 min | 2 years ago

Do-it-Yourself Photography, with Tim Engle

"He pulls him is interviewing sitting down with my good friend mr tim ingle we're gonna be talking about three ways that you could improve your photography with d a y hey folks welcome back to another episode of this week in photo this is an interview with my friend mr kim ingle timmy now you're gonna talk d i y in how you can get amazing being commercial fashion photographer results just by making a trip to the home depot tim angle how's it going man what you doing over there frederick it's good to see you again my friend but i know the long time no see longtime no talk i know you talk about me but not with me well in a good way you know i'm always saying about timmy go all right all right yeah yeah yeah so cool man so you and i i've seen you at work i've seen you do you're thing in the studio and you know on location even an there's always a high degree of like a we call it the the macgyver photographer you make it work but you still get the mission accomplished with whatever by any means necessary right so how did how did get to that level like how did you get to the 'cause you're you're as the years go by you're becoming more and more of the photographer doesn't doesn't necessarily mean you probably would crush it with it but you don't necessarily need pro photo gear and all this other magic stuff in order to create stunning stunning images is that is sort of a mindset or is because you cheap to yeah i think yeah well all of it you know and it's an evolution so they just start with a you know i have four kids and they get shoes before i get a light yeah so my i think lighting style developed out of a necessity and not having a lot of funds to buy stuff i mean my very first i think kind of thing i used it was considered dui or yourself is at a i had a shop light in my daughter was probably like six or seven my oldest now in the garage putting a shot up and she's holding it and i plugged it in the light the cast on her was phenomenal and so that was my first thing like wait a minute this could be used as a light so this is just a home depot shop light it's you know a twelve dollar fixture with a three dollar bald 'em so i took those in a manner them at that time to adjust to polls but i used a clamps just hold him in place and i started doing some purchase within well wow it turned out to the light with amazement that stuff and then a vote to 'em flashlights with flashlights switched over the lapd and the old days we had the mag light and those were the kind of the the war rumbled had a funny pattern to and win the lapd's happened they put out this very nice color light that was very smooth and that was my next for him like hey this could be a philly so all these things just kind of like happened over time and then i realized when i had a chance to work with higher in lights that i wasn't necessarily getting what i wanted out of those expensive lights and i kind of reverted back to my shop lights my flashlights my mirrors those kind of things things it didn't cost me a ton of just over time it just kept rolling i love that i love and that's important right i mean it's you you could you could probably like seeing the beginning you could weaken work magic without expensive light but any in they're photons right and we we've done shows on this week in photo where we talk about that you know in in in when you get your thoughts on this the consensus about you know using a home depot or lowe's or whatever type gear you know shop lights that sort of thing found items 'em versus using purpose built photography lighting etc equipment seems in you correct me if i'm wrong early expert it seems to come down to a not quality of image quality of the gear and longevity of the year like a pro photo kit it i don't own one but they tell me they're very well main in gonna last you for years and years and years they have a very accurate color temperature repeatable results all that stuff the home depot or the d i y side of it how does that factor in are you seeing you know it doesn't matter because you're like okay if it breaks it was ten bucks and we'd go buy another well yeah i never matters it matters on the style or the scale of the shoot so so if i have a big commercial shoot it's gonna require the the super solid color temperature and that even has changed over the years because of digital in the days of film that color temperature played way more into it now with the digital weaken and adjust color temperature after the fact and i haven't had a problem with like matching that stuff in years i'll just shoot with my color shekar in the very beginning and even if he ends and just make sure that i'm where i wanna be a but for the bigger projects all the stuff that i need you know i have to if i had to shoot at a high rate with stroz where i'm beating where i'm overpowering the sun sure but rent the pro photos because that's what they could do i could shoot you know much faster and more efficiently that way so it's just a matter of what the job the credit for the right in iraq waiting for the right job yeah yeah so so am i hearing you correct in saying the color temperature in color accuracy to put a finer point on it isn't that critical because you're checking you're checking color with the color meter before you even go into the shoot so the like in be putting out it doesn't have to be consistent because you're gonna make it consistent is that is that what you're after what if i if i was going to do you know high end clothing company and i'd had her do stuff over a series of days i might be more into that consistent color temperature out of let's say a pro photo 'em but again i'm also still doing the color checker and not necessarily color meter but of color color passport mhm in the beginning of the shot and he ended the shot and even sometimes in the middle if we change you know anything out i'll just recheck that stuff just so i have a color chart to reference but it colored shirt and a scene so there you go back and say this is like this is white in everything sort of locks and yeah yeah okay which is recommended i guess it's recommended for even if using pro photo or whatever light says yeah yeah to keep the especially if you're shooting for a commercial client where this red needs to be that particular read you know you wanna you want locked in as much as possible to and so tim speeding speaking of like shooting with clients how did that work we right because we all know is photographers and artists etc that it's the end result that matters in the when you're shooting in building a shot no and at the end of it you know unless there's another nerd photographers gonna look at it and say oh way that spec right highlight is done when the mirror and there's no one cares how the how the sausage is made up if you have a client onset with you right so if you have a client onset what do you do you feel comfortable still using like off the rack sort of you know macgyver type setups or would you go through the theater of having pro photo gear so they they could justify that big seven figure check their writing you years ago i might have been more concerned about the show of the shoot mhm the theater yeah the theater so i think over time 'em it's become less and less i mean they're hiring because of the images that i put out 'em end tethering i think helps because they're seeing images and putting out with that stuff is what they want so years ago when i didn't tell her i might have had a polaroid it was different but now having a come across the computer patter both clients they're happy with what i'm producing and that doesn't mean that i don't go strobes i mean it's still is absolutely about what i'm trying to say i mean i guess if a painter uses different paint brushes to portray trey on the campus what they want i think lights the same way we use different sources are different styles of light to portray what we want to the viewer yeah and so it's just more tools in the bag i mean you know and i've switched over to 'em for my strobes to the photo strobes subs and those have been dead on on color they're good on speed they're good on a power i mean i could beat the sun you know easily so just the right tool for the right job yeah no for sure silver people that are that are interested in sort of diving into this world of d i y and you know getting their feet wet and maybe saving a couple dollars a couple of thousand there give me some tips give us some tips on on where she they should get started you know unless i know the next question you'll be well what kind of photography were they doing let's assume in the do out there doing porcher or commercial type worker something i mean the first thing they do is go walk you're aisles of a costco mhm cosco's always got some crazy flashlight or ellie d that's on sale 'em let's start with that and then just take and i always tell people take one light if it's gonna be in l e d let's say it's a little lapd floodlight take one light and try it you know on the tri bounced off wall try behind him try it you know through a window and just try it in different ways and see what that light does i think people get into the kind of get himself into a corner where they'll get a bunch of lights and try and do things and they're like i don't know how to solve this shadow over here because i'm not sure what you're doing it well if you start with what light you could see what the shadows were doing you could see how it's playing and you can adjust and get the image that you want yeah i mean yeah then so then the next thing would be what about m v idea of stands and tripods and that sort of thing are you are you investing vesting money in that stuff or is that also why from your standpoint i used actually i v polls for the shop lights that i got from e d and they're kind of 'perfect i put in eyelid on the end of the shop light and they wheeler my studio and i could raise and lower i'm in for my portrait work i don't really need them to be mounted on she stands it works fine with the ivy polls and i just make sure the sandbagging when i'm in the right spot so they don't slip and i also put this is this there's a hard lesson i put bungee around the whole thing because i had a scenario where i didn't end the ball slipped out fell on the ground floor to it in the ground is never fun cleanup yeah yeah yeah he never well any kind of gear you never when gear and gravity in hard services not again you know especially if the clients were out i make sure everything's like tied off taped off bungee doff secure yeah all right last question on d i y stuff would out what about 'em reflectors 'cause i've i've seen you used mir giant mary small mirror is a foam board all kinds of stuff whether whether you're suggestions for folks so back to home depot home depot cells over in the insulation department apartment these massive sheets the one side is shiny and i cut those and i tapering off because if you cut immensely moping it's a mess psychotic my mom and i use those is my shiny bore xanax i really liked what they do on light they looked it's kind of like pitted silver and they're very that's a very good reflector or using the large seats in the studio and those are i think maybe you're in the range of fifteen eighteen bucks a sheet 'em i'm not gonna stress where they get destroyed or hurt or beat up or stepped on on and then ikea is another great source vermeer's i picked up multiple years firm ikea i have one that actually garage sale sixteen dollars that rotates 'em and i used that back back in and i've been in scenarios where i'll put a fusion panel up showing the mirror through that and that's the light source on the person you have to be super careful with mirrors that whoever you're using understands what you're doing with and they're not looking straight into it i don't have an interest in you know causey retinal damage all years yeah you only do that you know and yeah wow very cool man see i love that i love it if if you're in the sacramento area then you can get an invite tried to sit in on one in tim shoots it's very very educational we're interview i always feel bad because people come expecting this grand set up in this designing i'm doing such simple stuff but it's just yeah but the work the work speaks for itself though thanks all right so let's let's switch gears just a wrap this up 'em i know you recently were down in a were over in palm springs for the pony outings photo festival right now did how did that go so that was my first so backing up i have spent the last fourteen years as they tracked coaching football coach which means my days are done by three o'clock a lot of times and so and i've done well and i've gotten the work that i like out of sacramento and and i you know managed to raise a family doing it so basically about a week ago as for the most part my last track meet i most likely ever 'em my son is graduated from school and move on so my coaching days they're kind of over which is great i'm happy for that it's you know also sad to see it go but what that meant was that i want it to put my work out and get i guess a major stick to see how it stacked up against stuff around the country country yeah i've never put my portfolio out for the most part other than locally so the chance to go to the palm springs photo festival and do reviews we as a people from wired magazine from entertainment weekly a vanity fair and people who are absolutely have phenomenal lies 'em was a chance i really wanna take it'll tell you you know in multiple ways it was one of the best movies i could have done right now really i opening did you did you leave with with their ego pumped up or or crushed and i was i i want it to go into it with either i mean i would love to have somebody tell me apart and say do this as long as i could get a direction and it was obviously constructive i mean you know but i was amazed at how positive everybody was with the stuff i've been producing a flat out said that it was already on a scale er a level that they felt was you know big time i could do that man negative well but it's like it's always you know people around here always say oh you have nice images well that's fine thank you appreciate it but it's like i wanna see you know when the the the movers and shakers in the world of photography give you validation that means a lot yeah and even the process of selecting imprinting my portfolio that was very beneficial you know i've never you know most of my stuff i'd say ninety five percent of my stuff go straight to digital dealer or magazine mhm so for me to go back and select and look at a body of work you know you're trying to basically get it down to let's just say maximum of twenty four images that represents you and it's like that's hard yeah i mean i started with five hundred images i got down to a hundred and eighty i got down to forty and then i sit that forty out to various people they get their opinion who i trusted got it down to my twenty four and then printing knows and looking at m critiquing yourself knowing that you know high level eyeballs are gonna be on stuff you look at you're stuffed differently a man there's things that i thought to myself i like and don't like about my own work and so it was very therapeutic from that standpoint so it was a it was absolutely a week wellspent down there is really cool was real close you do you do you think you'll be going back as it's gonna be a regular occurrence resuming i think so and i think you should go teach i would love to go there a you know in fact i was there a couple of several years ago jeff doing this who's thee the organizer of the conference in the creator of the conference invited me over and i'll give you a little story about that we the the life changing nature of the palm springs photo festival 'em i went there and one of the people sitting in the audience was some people from brooks institute in we start a dialogue after that in you know ultimately became chairman of the board firmly there you go and it never would have happened had it not been virginia students in the palm springs photo festival so i think i think we need to get a a group of people and will go next year absolutely yeah yeah i mean it's right there is like what what's the flight forty five and i drove so so here's what i did is i actually rented in air being being mid week that was amazing visually julie and i set up a shoe on my own just if this house so i had a makeup artist and the model like brought in and i just took advantage any other really cool thing about them festival all these gear manufacturers from sony the cannon fuji will let you take and try gear over let's say a day or two day period and so i was able to take a food you g f x which i've been looking at and shoot with it 'em for basically a day and a half and that was i could go into that but that was pretty cool i mean i know who you are you are you now no longer a nikon guy or i'm a nikon guy right now they're row right now there's a crack in the armor oh and you know when i if i look at the idea of new gear it has to be a quantum leap in what i'm doing just spend money just because it's a cool piece of tech it has to do something greater than i already have yeah and that definitely gets into that you know that medium format sensor and the total and i'm getting out of it i mean the files are pretty stunning 'em definitely approach is kind of like a quantum jump in what i'm producing oh really so superior what do you what do you shooting now is you're daily driver so my dad well nikon d for has been my camera i had forever and it's you know what i've already had a refurbished once a because i wore out the shutter and then also i have and i'm sigma glass and i'm shooting the eight ten a bunch of the time at my ten i actually had sent that infer work and it was really strange i was not happy with images of ten senate enfor refurbishing it came back and i don't know what magic they did but i'm kind of amazed by the files and getting out of it right now really you have you have you been some sort of you know seduced by the nikon mirror list the series at all and i come airlifted interesting i m all the things i'm reading about the z six seemed to be what i mean there's where where would fall i don't need a massive you know i got big mega pixels right now at eight ten yeah that's a that's a good segway because you're you're gonna be speaking at troy miller's of sixty four will detroit miller aunt or the sixty four in the conference that were putting together this week in photo 'em in for miller you know he's having an illicit affair with his these series mike right right so you could technically they cheating on his wife with cameras so so you'll you'll have a chance to play with those cameras when you're down there you a are you gonna bugging deceive you can't grab one more day over sure i may i might happen by that who knows will see oh that's right yeah why not i mean what do we at a few months so lock and change between and then or i could have a food eugene effects in my hand i dunno oh this'll be interesting so you're gonna have sixty four what do you what do you gonna be teaching down there because you are instructors so i wanna get into i'm and i call it smoke and mirrors but i think sometimes you could create images how illusion of this big production for not a lot of money and not a lot of a production mhm 'em so i'm gonna start there i wanna get into some 'em working with models and posing a and then combining the two elements together so that is the one thing i took away even last week is it's important for people to not only get some education and some discussion but the shooting push the button i think just standing around and talk about one thing so i'm really looking forward to having people push the button talking about why we push the button how we push it what were looking for what we got out of it but we liked about what we got what we did like a really heavy participation from the attendees in in what i wanna do limit limit can't wait i'll be there bills heckling you from the back of the crowd so just you know you'll be shooting right i will i will i can't wait a year and the year and excellent teacher so yeah that should be good to go man any any parting shots you wanna leave for folks about d i y or anything coming up you want people know about i think you know my parting shots were always get out and push the button 'cause nothing happens if you don't push the button that's right that's right yeah it's like yeah it and doing it prom i don't know if you were like me but i'll just shy kid prom if you don't ask a girl the dance it's never gonna happen so you get all even rank it's like i feel like the one thing came home as you could be the greatest photographer in the world but if nobody knows you exist you suck he's right yeah treat the tree falls in the forest and does it make a sound or you know or does it make a sound if no one sees it yeah right yeah arguably doesn't fall silent 'cause there's nothing to rattled eardrums cool man all right well thank you for coming on man it's always it's always a pleasure we gotta get together up in sacramento and heavy a have a lunch at some point really oh and then june ninth is he a pressing castle photo there again oh yeah tell us about that real quick suppressing castle one considered one of the most haunted locations in california have not the country and i we put put together three times a year photo day where people could bring in props and models in in a extra put a tripod down 'cause if you go there on your own and do a tour you can't stop and shoot so if you've not seen the location look up pressing castle a look at these images and it's a i bring models out to be photographed i have a i'm setting up a set of vintage a wardrobe for the models to kind of go with the theme and so it's definitely for i think we've got forty bucks for you know a few hours a shooting is pretty worth it all right well semi those dates over i'll put those in the blog posts so weaken week and promote that yeah it's pretty creepy up there it's a you've been there yeah yeah i mean you yeah with you it's it's very easy yeah it's a it's a crazy creepy place in you if you're freedom ghosts you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people so you know unless you go there like a grudge that that you know leaves with you you should be okay all right well go tim ingle what's you're your own people wanna go check out our website so word

mr tim ingle timmy mr kim ingle ninety five percent sixteen dollars fourteen years twelve dollar three dollar two day
Oh no, not again - 6.7

Bro Bro Bro Bets

1:00:57 hr | Last week

Oh no, not again - 6.7

"Hubel number what sports gambling show come pat mcafee corporate offices. I am tone. Digs out of david beard. Wonder what's up. do youtube trying to the two will. All we're trying to do is do a show and go live in fucking youtube won't let it happen. Come on thankfully bill. Bill saved us. Thank you like saw about found that suited the mall. I spoke. I honestly looked for every kind of how you could find and stumbled on old faithful book. Black nike looks great voice during the back. Jay mit how we doing pretty good. Tony pretty good man. How's your game over the weekend. I had a great weekend in the nba. But the avalanche have had no to schneider. When i started betting on himself oh the nba. Big time weekend in the nba. Good good hawks win on saturday. Saturday for thirty have thought got met up yesterday. I thought he got skunked on saturday weekend weekend. Hey what have you done for me lately. Up with one. Another yesterday in the nba. Was your weekend. Saturday was good yesterday. Not so much. But the the haves the haves came back. Are they gonna sandra three. Yeah we'll talk about that. When nicky skates comes in yeah Ball was great on saturday and then sunday. Just fucking cleveland got routed by baltimore. Cueto was up three nothing in the fourth than it was three. Three in the fifth gives up a leadoff double to the pitcher hendrix. That'll yeah hey. I don't have it. That was the end of the day for me. That will happen. Foul sunday seem like the day that i get caught. If i'm going get got wonder why that is. I don't know and every lake on sundays. The lines seem like they're good. Like oakland was plus a half yesterday. Like better team against the rockies. Yeah i mean. Marquez was on the mound which was worrisome. But the kid for the athletics had a good year. A they didn't do it. Just do watch clippers. Maths yeah awesome. I love dude. Qui- did what lebron was supposed to. Tony i actually had one of my first. Ever hedges on the clippers mavs. I have the i had. The mavs are took the mavs. Because i had the clippers plus two eighty on the series on the series. Did you bet yeah hatched. I had sweet so you you made a you. Were making a profit. Non profit no matter what happened yesterday. I was so happy watching the game. Hedging his actually really cool okay. So when you're yesterday how did you decide how much you're gonna win either way. I put basically like ten dollars more than the amount that i had before on the On so i was going to at least make ten dollars dollars dollar dollars dollar. That's that's cool man. He's he's got it he just sometimes. I don't know what it is. That teams so weird. Like i tweeted it yesterday and and people didn't like it but i said the clippers are in a game seven in round one but it feels like if they gain. They could win the title. I agree i saw you. People didn't like that. No no or they say percent yeah. I don't think there's who's better in the west. Well could you honestly say as better in the what the west right now these. Do we think the jazz better sons while the sons are better. But it's close. You know what i mean. The jazz are minus one forty five favorites in the series. Yeah like. I'm taking clippers series one hundred percent. I think i think quite got another run and the way he's playing dude. He's going the best player in that series. I love donovan. Mitchell co is better than donald. Yeah right now. Mitchell i put a to. It's better than paul george. Yeah fall georgia's three but then the jazz have maybe like four five. Six seven eight tomb is sneaky. Good for the clippers. He is very good very underrated. I think is my colleague plan tonight. Mitt to you know by chance. They're not planning sorry one. I am not sure. If mike morris morris morris a shoot and right now dude he you find him in the corner there for that three. He ain't miss dude. It's i mean this clippers team guinguette gulf one. I think i think they got a shot. Dude especially if hardens. Oh well yeah especially now that lebron's out then why has actual chance to make a run. I don't know. I think the clippers that games interesting the bucks nets game very very interesting because the box looked rusty and game one against the heat they had there were shooting performance of basically the entire year. But here we want against the nets. They had their worst shooting performance of the entire year. They went like five of thirty three or something. Like this is the thing though. This is the question that always comes up. Middleton has to be the number two guy act and i don't know if he is and when he's not they lose that's just how it goes middleton's on hitting shots the bucks lose like it's just how it's been like these past few years and if he has a stinker than they're in a bad spot right now and that's minus two five on the series boxer plus one seventy two hardens out for game two tonight mitt. You like the bucks. I don't you. Yeah i really liked the bucks tonight. I'm really liking the zigzag theory here. I'm thinking this one's for sure gonna go seven and then i was also thinking the only way that you can stop. The nazis of james harden gets hurt. James harden his hamstring acting up in the playoffs. I don't know. I think they might even brooklyn s two and a half point favorites. They are now plus one little bit aligned movement there law so it was weird because it was the everyone was brooklyn game one but everybody that i talked to was on the box one but i mean that's the public's crushing in the nba player kaz favorites recovering and public. Gloves the favorites. So yeah they were gonna crush right now Sons minus five or sinaga tonight. I think i'm actually gonna make a play here are gonna take. I won't argue that. I think Eight better defender package Maybe we'll have a little bit better luck with the joker joker younger and then if he doesn't if he's not scoring than the nuggets scoring these playoffs felt like eight and it's coming out party a little bit. Yeah he's bond dude. Obviously chris paul's injuries and stuff like that and the day since they play. No i know but when was that thursday thursday night right. Yeah stayed up. So it's friday saturdays three days. I mean he looked good after day. Off against the lakers and suns minus five tonight. What do you think of it. I love that pick. I'm also taking signs. I mean we watch damian lillard absolutely cook the nuggets all series last. I'm only think devon booker is going to do. the nuggets. Are the nuggets anyone. The play defense. The lakers actually add good. Defense and devon booker just went off the whole series. I'm taking the. I'm probably gonna take phoenix four and a random. Tonight i had hops on the sleep at high on the series and they try to end up the time out with. I don't live to try that game. The biggest melt of all a close than a fucking they were heaving balls like half court analysis. Ben simmons can't makes makes lake high school basketball. Luckily ben simmons can't make a free throw. How about him getting shock treatment fouled that. It's awesome smart. Nate mcmillan do. That's what i'm saying. I love nate. All right Nikki skates welcome to the show. Good here could be appreciate it. Let's take a call to get you into show all right. Mike's apartment mike in brazil and I don boy. I wish i could get through to you guys on friday. 'cause i had a fritzy good in my mind. I suppose were broken yell yellow us. What are you guys Montreal implore at las five fifty and it was before game two. I believe on friday so not looking too bad tonight. Okay but what he had. I thought it was odd. Tonight is going or talking about the New york islanders and bruins of i told boss connor. I'm so split down the middle. So i got picked on both sides Picks sites decides patrice bergeron. Oneplus goal In boston a win plus time. Ooh rock nelson. I like tonight oneplus goal at new york islanders to win plus six fifty playing both sides of fattier mattie bars i think he's founded got two goals in his last two games. I finally got that monkey back to play offs oneplus school and style. And there's win another plus six fifty and David pasta first goal plus nine fifty two off. That shot off the post picture tomorrow. He's torn on this. A pop gives the fucking and winners are he has i in. That's good call multiple winner days in a row higher that. What are we going to do this. Guy's given us call on torn boys who fucking busy who mike roussell. Mike does he live in brazil. We're not sure are you brazil. A country or indiana asked me the same question brazil the country. i mean. We got canada. None in here. We got cuba. Got too much italian in here if this a winner. Let's fuck knows thing is too much time off. You are you actually. I can't hear what he's saying. See actually in brazil. Brazil does not have a choice. Says braga right now the talk learn about you. Keep on in not easy becoming a citizen here. We appreciate your service sir. Billy issue with him. He does hockey picks so far. Darby mike's mike todd. Mice cold so mike and brazil as figured out. The strategy is awfully hard to miss. If you just pick on candle. You can't do that. Unfortunately never done that before. No no guys. Its team started the call saying he had a plus five fifty from friday. We come on. Come on mike. You're better than that well. It's not being. I will be. Why standard is the standard. Why do you want to be means. Is you set the standard. Is your thing insane. Yeah to pick on friday. I did like the patrice bergeron. One though see do see playing well always plays well in big games. You always find a way to. It's not always the prettiest but he finds a way to get it done with the islanders. Go up three two here tonight. Very a possibility gump. The islanders plus one fifty eight tonight if you believe in them in regulation plus ooh sixty everyone of these games feels like it could be the every time these two teams you'll notice feels like overtime is is inevitable. I thought this morning. I made textiles strictly because the value plus one fifty whatever it is now is one six to two hundred eighty eight now plus three hundred to go to. Ot he's games. Been a coin flip except for the one that the islanders fucking blue buck bar doors off which was wild Both the last two games have gone under as well. It said at five and a half right now. The over for that is one thirty. Eight thirty at the minus. One seventy overs. What one thirty one seventy. Yeah that's a lot. This has been a good serious man. Bit great zoos lockers. Good series except for fuck in montreal blowing the doors off but winnipeg. we knew. Yeah i have converted. I converted on sunday. I did board with the absolute uproar had to happen. Water is fun. Just feel like at this point when a page is dead and buried and maybe people will sell their steve off the sweep. They're going to go with a. I don't think so. I think they're ready to roll over and be done with it. Yeah minus one fifty. I will take halves money. Line one more time one. Seventy two on the puck line. Maybe even worse. Ooh i'm deferred to you on this one in this particular instance because you have sixty minute line avs and religion plus one five. Yeah i mean if you look in value plus one zero five all the money line. Modest one fifty. I would lay the juice. I believe in also have 's if vegas gets by colorado don't even give me carry price. Math matchup faulk in battle a candidate do fuck dude speaking of that series john from chicago. What do you got. Or don is Another nikki skates centric. So i got to work is and i was watching this game last night. A surfer like pure devore's propensity to start robin lehner random intervals. Little flower for no apparent. Reason still group are looks like a broken man who are the f. Stuck in dead feels like that. Doesn't it if you watch any of that game last night. It feels like they're dead but it's as our like where's mckinnon at now. You never said you much but you think about it. They played the blues. No adversity steamrolled. Go up to nothing. Ever you lose a game you enroll role and thoughts start creeping in your head. Now you're tied to vegas. That bar has fucking alleged now again. You know we get jesse colorado bags out of the answer. Maybe it's different team at home but group our does look like he shook a little bit because some of these goals that are going in our stoppable puck new commitment of the i know the known to let out a groove. Patrick eddie smoked them from thirty. Five feet out diller. Her just patties he when he gets go on man. I mean they're pretty big minus one fifty four next. Who's that adds. what's the puck. Line plus one seventy six. Vegas is still plus. Their plus. One eighteen to win the series. So do you have any faith in them to steal one of these games on the road because it does seem like they're going to take things at home. I'm believer in the nights. I am but people worried me. Because he has that propensity to do something stupid at any moment behind the bench. Turf corey from auto. What do you got. Hey boys has gone. I do court so core. Pretty good I'm agreeing with you guys zero wagon but as an auto sense fan i I can't bet on the money just goes against everything my body so i have a staffer. You guys the first six games. They've played For the last six games. They played the montreal sports. I so i got that minus one fifty. So that's that's a handwriting. I can't bet the money line but the has been killing lately. Thank you corey getting it. Early often corey perry had won. What like three or four minutes. Five fucking varies from six to midnight. She's facetime from gov score back made himself look that one. I would absolutely hammer that. I think we're just gonna roll over and die anything. this is. yeah. I just wanted to know what stassen came back even in that thing. Give any boost. Yeah so now. They're not getting back yet. The the mayo's accosting costing them their death. They're dead they're dead. Pop jets are dead stuff. Good fan base. I was gonna say earlier jets in hab to the last three have gone over. It's a plus one twelfth. What's the five and a half five and a half. Yeah they're all five now to get there. You're relying montreal to get a couple. Yeah couple of garbage time. Goal's probably but hey jessica the goalie maple at very early to since they. They may with three minutes left in the reason i was talking about. Won't shell puck line earlier. Won't y'all five hundred gets spread in the last five to that good. Well it'd be the dogs. Yeah yeah the last night was last. Night was the first game. They were favourite. I'll play on the outside the only game. I think that was was the one. Nothing game didn't cover down three one. Man what fucking just rolled off book. Six straight yeah. Maybe seven they made those couple of lineup changes and got the young guys in there and then it's like a flip switch having said that i'm on both of the team's home favorites because i think what he's done and while. I do think the islanders could pull it off bossing being back home. I think that's a big deal for them in this series it is. They are very good Tyler from what do you got how do you. I'm just. I'm are you ready for this. One hundred percent. Three leg parlay all right. Let's dude i Fernando battiste hit a home run as before Under ten and a half for the marlins and red sox and montreal canadian sixty minute regulation plus fifteen ten percent percenter lock you then take it home to a home run how you feel about. What's that the under ten and a half and that sox game would would be the one that worries me panetta bounce back last game but the guy i have no idea who the guy pitching for the model of supposed to go for the marlins scratched not scratch booth tomorrow in. The canadians can argue. Don't hate it. Dylan from wisconsin tenny winters. Abbas how are you how are we doing. I haven't house a record or we still fucking winning. We're we're stood at five and one and what we were. We won last time. We won serena and sophia kenan bullshit plus three hundred not okay. that's where to keep them moving I got one in the french euphoria. You haven't done one outside of the french Sixty boss my book does allow parlays. So i would say if you got something you really like little more juice pulls it was sisi pas. I just played the under thirty seven and a half He'll he'll take this one and be should be relatively easy for them So fifty or the under take your pick And then at the guard open or take martin stupid vicks mardi yup martin all Minus one twenty five on my book already locked in. he'll be an early one tomorrow So those are the two to tennis. Plays good luck fellows. And we'll speak soon thanking every Law dialing another recall. Ten five and one's pretty good. It's got the judiciary to talking straight to argue with. That has been a fucking wagon federer. just hang it up. Walked off tell you who also look pretty good. Rafa mr mr. Mr claim himself scare scares scare. The window ornament. Yeah was even right down this morning. It was a bit of a scare. i was reading. A bit of a scare scares this morning though scares what's going on. I thought he hasn't lost a set. Oh i thought he was down this morning. I thought i read well. I'm gonna read that yesterday. He was down. He was down a one seven five six three six old. He was dive he was done. I mean they went to the tiebreaker in the first session or row. Yeah he was dan. Yeah that's the right size. One thirty five sets in a row at the fucking french did roland garros. Yeah you set up and the doll see. He was profit of seven one three straight sets. I mean i'm guessing. He was down in the. I know scarce i mean johnny center may have been the game janik seaney. He's bobby must out. He was out no way three thirty forty views. Daddy was one i set. He's a wee hours three thirty one. Am he battled against. Sometimes i tweeted about. I guess i was watching a replay way better better. Yeah a did editor matters. He hung it up. he walked it off. Everyone and quit. Quit quit i saw you. That was called me. Tweeted at you already. It was on. Nbc what for me. They're playing on tv. I i was over confused about the time zones as three thirty one house. It three thirty one right now but federal quit. He quit dude is done. Change your shirt fuck it. He said walk it off. It was awesome. I mean tell me here. That apparently did not get out so he didn't win. Fed's yeah maybe all set them out Was a battle. A lot of tennis is a big one on saturday. Yeah but what's which one saturday. Which was sunday. He bought out after one on saturday. Three thirty one. am yeah. He'd beat the german seven six seven him. They all went seven six seven. Germans name copter. Yeah i get it. He was scared now. No no because he was supposed to play marty berry bertini from italy so he's already stared down at italian. Say listen here now. The shoes no the tennis community is not happy with this. Better i tweets at about federer and he was in a firestorm ended tennessee. I got attacked by test communities. We'll have freezing. Cold takes us by this point he had already in the rafters was awesome. David through the he had listened to his buddy. Hey serena i watched her play to get dominated now. She actually made a commercial in the middle of the match she Everything was going wrong for her against this Forget it was. What's what's her record. She lost to rob a teeny. What you'll have to re bikini. That i felt later mccain okay. Was that the one i saw. You thought maybe it was in kenya like reba. Mcentire akeem lena reboot bikini. She was making a movie. I thought she was making a commercial in the middle of that thing. There was like a real rally moment where she was fucking. All at fluster balls are flying all over. She could not find the court shoes. Getting beach was tired. Jews winded and then one was going out of bounds. It should try to backpedal out of the way of it and it hit her pad iraq or whatever so as a point in at that point she put her racket on the court and she'd better head over for it and it was like a good thirty forty. Five seconds of sitting there in the crowd was like let's watch a commercial right now down but not out. She got the next point. I was like there we go. This is it turns out she do. You lost it straight. So she was getting lucky us get unlucky. Use i watch tennis. If it's good tennis. I will watch the final of all the majors. I don't know what the majors are like. I didn't know we're in paris. Yes yeah thought were potentially in australia. That's why the time different but turns out it was just prerecorded. Got the ozzy got the french. You got the us open. Wimbledon ones mcenroe played any player in. I get a tour roddick. What the hell happened raw italian garbage show that garbage show. He was found love. He's martin dan speaking of like people that were hot there for a bit. You see locked the coming back training did he said the best way to get past. The he saw rob that store in brazil He said it was a mistake on big brother after that. Still every big brother. I think he made a couple of visions that he regrets now. But that's documentaries. like locked. He coming back to the pond or something like galaxies. Back swimming again folks. back phelps. Smoke loyalty is locked in these games and like a month. I hope so. I think so. Those documentary i watch. It might have been four years old though. I try see crew to man on that. I'm betting lofty though. If you can't bet on swimming you guys would be able to bet on everything olympic inc. So she'll be able to. Simone biles early lock. I'd like to hammer her forever. Now we're gonna win. Subsidies in vending millions penalized for venting no moves because in nasty right like you get scored off the difficulty of the move. But nobody's ever done any of the moves she's done before they score it so i think what should happen is every judge should have to go out publicly in attempt was simone's doing and then that'll tell us how hard it is because she's making shit look varies that double. Mctwist thing that nobody's ever done competition. I think she could have done a triple if she wanted to does like i just watch. The biography of booker t. He's spin a rooney. Whatever he made. Vincent man he made talk. Ultra doux spinner. Any can't terrible terrible. And then you appreciate booker spinner. That blocked he does seek. This is from swim. Swam dot com lock seeks to become oldest olympic swimming medalists. There's good there's documentary kerri. Strug still going. Gee retired. Who want from indiana. In former from indiana. She did really well last time. Five years ago. Where the one from stanford is the greatest in the world by. She's now there's an idea person. I thought how about those olympians turned down. Actual money inaccuracy. Katie look daddy. Was she the girl she. She's the one from stanford who just balkan dominates speedo was going to give her like dad or grandpa co. Owns the islanders okay. So that's why okay. That makes you stay at stanford if uncle something there's no professional swimmingly user. Yes so when speed is offering a familiar like nama stay at stanford. Instead i'm like. Wow that's awesome issue that you love education. That's awesome the girl. The several order who. Yeah Kim kim miss kim. She could've made billion dollars. Enter dad decided now. Now we ain't doing that snowboarder. Khloe you'll bingo. Do mr kim. Not speaking views of mr kim who i have to do business with before. It's a great negotiation. By the way you're watching or listening always referred to somebody. It's called the mr kim principle even if you run your own business you have to consult with mr kim to see if it's okay with him and then you'll get back to the person i like it. Let me see that person doesn't exist again. That person's just coming back. A mr kim said people were saying misc- him kim khloe kim. I thought she was gonna make a hundred million ever. Last winter olympics is similar. You just i talked to my boss and you never talk to your boss. And he's comeback. We can't do it. That's mr kim will do it on you. That was in a business mag. I read on a plane one time. Because i didn't have internet sufficient audio potentially bad boys. What a brazilian. Mike say Brazilian likes to take every player on the ice. It was not his best call. But he's on your cold though so true. What is the hot bath. Me specifically ice called. You're not call more no cowboys right now. That south three three in one on sunday. But it's bounced back. Then that was. I was i was very very cold self handicap empathy. It's about empathy. We can't care you can care get. I'm awake kid empathy together. Who do you like tonight. Bruins are islanders alexis commercial. Where's it added in a barn in beantown in boston. Td jordan. i like boston. And what's the who's favorite boston. One eighty eight mice one eighty and everyone's on the bucks tonight. Which i know you'll be on the other side. Yeah absolutely amount on a bucks. The nets yeah milwaukee bucks not the pirates. I thought the tampa bay bucks or because they recite. Be a and jason light. The milwaukee bucks. I heard stephen say this morning. Chris middleton supposed to be a part of their big three and he's just not showing up whenever we were talking about. If he's not their second best guy the they played the first game played terrible. The first game against the heat. That's when they almost lost to harness taking a break right off stiff. Opposition hamstring man. That's tough to keep coming back from your right jam. Big time on the bucks tonight settled but james harden's not plan. I think this gives brian to go seventy seven. Walk yes to win tonight. Point boxer favored by point in brooklyn. All right so yeah. Give me the nets to bet everything that i have left my count on that. That's my lock. The nets open as a half point favorite. Now they are one point dog. Okay so kevin. Plane is terrier implying. Steve nash what are we doing exactly. I know that guy exists for sure is blake griffin plan to hit a double double time since twenty sixteen. Yeah you're damn right duties. He was lost in the dive on ball studios electric. Who's a syndicated. Detroit staff in the dirt. He's coming out yelling now. Matthew stafford blake griffin. Get out of the dirt. We need those focused stafford takeda shirts. Yeah i don't know how many people get it very regionalized but those who know you ass was plus one fifty that game last night really about anti might get better on usa. I'm going to do it. And it was on the thing i'm like. I'm a better nurse. Anything speed-walking olympics by the way we got a guy in a speed walking world. We got his little hips. Go ryan lucky. He's got a guy there too as foxy done a fate thing. No the bronze out. So he's depressed so he probably won't do because he's scared i'm happy he can't ruin the penzone more ruined the bronze what is dead may never die. What was that what his dad made never die. You're right hair here. He's a shirt fox cello. This the name actually gone it where you really. Yeah always like a sunday day. I'll do remember corinth out middle. Quarantine your fucking rattle. You don't know what to do today. No on look lebron's out don't is the nba dead definitely dead bought. I'm putting in right now. Because i just saw this and you guys were talking shit. I wasn't going to do this. The most obvious pick of all time though is at seven forty tonight box nets you take the nest. Plus i mean how you not laughing right now police. Do exactly what you're gonna do to call. Everyone does fast easy way. Do what why are you doing this to me. What do you do. I just came back just like what you got to. So you're right. Who him yeah. But that's all like. I'm not homeless. And they don't got sidney crosby of. I'll never bet on any team. That doesn't have sidney crosby hockey world right but i think the bees went tonight. Yeah i like the nets a lot. Yeah you come. Dorsey done in here. Your new foe cellist. Shirt yourself just shitting. All over everything. That i started there i was like i'm a computer and i heard it was like you have a pick tonight and i think that's you that is so you can ask for my pig tonight and then look at that and ask for this though just like you didn't ask for you to fucking ruin the steelers or the penguins. I didn't have any jack with. The penguins had me rooting for the penguins. Because the one time. I bet on them they won the game. There's actually only win in the last four years in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure. So like maybe detroit hat that's relevant in this conversation right now. Exactly franchise a relevant k. Nhl is for some reason blackballing. The red wings. We are taking on purpose to get the first pick in the nhl somehow ended up with the six. How's this work in kind of stink rate. We've no good players diner at six pow. We're the worst team did not happy with foxy taken. That's what i'm talking about. We were all in their dude celebration. Nets bane team seem so what they say in here. This room chat. It's all blue collar. People top picks from guys who have robots cutting their yards cuts their own graphics crazy. That's crazy you've got the room for the awesome. It looks like it really works. Saw a big difference between remind while you stooges are sitting on your frigging tractor all day. I just do whatever i want. I can get worked on. I can sit in the. Acc can watch. The game can do anything. I want this laws garbage violent up though. I was at a wedding interesting with different kind of trim that gulbis mown down whatever but also the he's staying at a place called Shitty way. I guess the trash dumpster. I guess it just gets backed up. I was in a wedding with a bunch of people that live in saint building dumpy. And they're like we are paying. Ask your friend. They said we're paying way too much money for the way that things have been going over there and i guess the pool party i think be was leading the charge. They said that. Look like i've read. They said a teach for a house party there ten. Am by eleven thirty that place. They thought that was vague. It's mad guy. Had a beer helmet off one pm. I was like i'm i miss is pad i was like. I never felt more thirty five in my life. People by the way that i was talking to incredibly cool people have a good time and they were like that place too much russell. I'm like why so. There's two pools i think i went to the wrong. No no they said both they're both. Yeah yeah we're living up dude. I mean let's get crazy but not too crazy. Obviously obviously are you wearing that pokemon card or on your neck which one is it. Do peaking chewed first edition. Worth like two hundred and seventy five grand probably probably was three hundred grand now. Two dollars and seventy five cents because i did put a hole through it to put it on my chain. No no you word on this hammer down episode where. We all went perfect. This big deal. Logan said it's the bug on card that i wore out to fight void. Mayweather this a million dollar cars. What happened the upbeat up. That's what happens when we are putting on around your neck. You get beat up survive day. He did a good tweet. He was bucket what he was laying like the ropes. A lot of good tweet. That disrespected walks. He might be changed boxing. Lets you gotta sit down staying up all the time roy. Synergy mickey mouse is everything mickey mouse days joy for the entertainment pissed off including the commentators. The minor details still watching. It was entertaining spectacle. It was awesome. I'll care if you hate the paul brothers. They can put ask conceits that well. Not as many tv if you're watching watching l. o. Fought in dallas eight thousand people in this stadium. I there would have been if it wasn't for that fuck and tropical rainstorm. And i'm not talking about the ball brothers. i'm talking about the actual rain. Passing showers happened. Miami all the time we jerry's butler say that was a sprinkle people were separate and fallen. They can't get up but you're right like how come it wasn't just for what it is. Hey this is what this is the. Hey because it costs money. Why are you mad that you paid fifty dollars. Did you not know that's what you were signing up. I agree with you a bunch of slapstick out there all pissed off like we had a bad boxing match. The guys all we want. But he's in his life except for one time he ever spend fifty bucks on some door dashing. Showed up with something you hate all over eat. It eat it. That's what you gotta do. I don't know. I just thought it was so weird. Beef up the card. I'd like to have an ocho on their like body. Jack great boxer in his time. Now still we don't. We don't want to see that kind of boxes. Body shot not give me more. Give me more celebs bodyshop wrestling on the card. Pacman cpac hence armed knoxville. Video of fucking no choice. You fucking pussy. Batman me mother fucker yacky packing their. I would like packing. They're just as representative of both west virginia and the nfl. I think isn't he supposed to like that. Dude he should fight joey. Porter peasy though it'd be awesome fight. Were they weigh in on anything doesn't matter what was it one nine eight. Jeez just got house while text message. Can't talk about it was good. I mean it was good but anyways back to this did logan not look like he was seven to eight inch dollar than than floyd in there. Yes what was it was the air. Force's they're fifty pound different. he's wearing air forces. Whenever i'm six three airflows it looked like he was six nine leslie by his arms and he was just dangling them arms fucking yo what radha seemed like. He could knocked him out anytime he really wanted to know trying because he looked like you got mad. I think the way different. The difference was i clean shots lawyer at his thing. And then you start getting in tight. There was one shot now and then as soon as they separate by the way he's right on top of them again trying to get in there. The oculus chat does have a good point. Should should on the next card bingo. That's we're talking about. We'll get a fire to fight on the next one one of the polls schinder gami pacman deal. I shouldn't call me by the way. We're still i feel like we're still sponsor i still like. We're still a fan. I mean blatant disrespect. before that goes big sponsor. he's ad i was hoping i seen it for everybody else. He's money then. He went home with shaab. They talked a little bit. I guess should was the kitchen anymore. That for dolby. We need more chicago fights but i do believe they should turn into spectacle war. I think there needs to be like a limit. On how many rounds it go and it has to be a half around limit singing. Ain't over wayne leaning on each other all night drew. I've been on chicago if he fought again though he's been eating cauliflower fucking on genetic he really doesn't god damn name going on digs. We'll talk shows. Gosh show is this. What do you mean actually of say. We're more thing off okay. Like this is what i said this morning. I probably should not be saying this. I'm not a boxing. Or mma purist or any of that bullshit or there's people complaining about it like hey. How many times have you bought a boxing. Pay per view or an may pay per view and go. Wow that sucked. I was super underwhelming. Happens all the time every single time except for maybe like one year. Well showtime wasn't working. I guess for a lot of people that like the espn plus one for connor was a connor and floyd was espn plus mcgregor. Poi- down dowling now feels like everywhere he goes out the cock with wrestlemainia. Do that's why you're gonna go fucking buy blackbox and by then watch it on there. I did buy it last night. There are a lot of people in your assume. We're not nurtured from now. Ready stream accrue ella this weekend free. Of course see that's awesome. It was good. I wanna see those actors and actresses thirty dollars. I said i don't know if it's not going to be more urged it'll be it'll be less than i think. This is what all movies should do. Yeah i agree in up charge. You get it at your house earlier. Yes i heard it was awesome. I wish i were state of where. I fell asleep as soon as it started soon as long one sam loved it. Then you're going to be like oh movies over nor half hour to go. Everybody has said it's really good. What's going on topics you guys supposed to spit in this thing. I don't know think it through drugs now. I ain't no room for drugs all kinds of drugs. I'll think you save on for later and put in. They're not go back to the old tim. The rock rains tim. The rock rains. Who's that play for the expos. What he do tim. The rook exists nipper. How're you doing up atlanta. That i still have never seen place drugs in atlanta based atlanta hawks. By the way we are not took him for the win the series before the series started so pretty. Good there polio. Oh here we go per titans from four thousand twenty five hundred twenty two hundred to twelve hundred for the afc win. The division only went for plus ten plus one five barely. they've been colder theme. That's what i took away from. that press. ballot is built a great team. We all said that. I think that just one just one weapon way. I think from windsor people but all rangy athletic resigned like a deep threat like just catches every something like that. You know what. I mean like know we got guys a could be great. Parris campbell could be unbelievable. Marlin matt's knee injury prone no so as payment. They both are young though. They have a chance to sort of things unlucky. Things have happened to both those guys you know. There's there's a lot of potential but there is one guy who has one hundred thirty five games in one hundred six possible game is certain all burner buddy that could have been growing our team. And i think that's why the odds for the division haven't moved up much because the team is really good. If we have got holy although i would have been excited to see the odds are they would have been a huge ultra still. They're still a five or six teams in the afc favored above the titans to win the afc. I mean julio with a chip on his shoulder as well we forgot about despite stuff. Yeah it's like randy for a new deal. You didn't want me. Once more guaranteed money. She used to bills ravens. Browns broncos colts are headed. The titans broncos are in there. Strictly becase get air. Yeah that has asked me the only reason. Why the broncos the sportsbooks are just ten of hedging. Their bet their people on denver. they are. They're betting because of the aaron rodgers situation. Let's act as if aaron's going there that's also very good by the way and maybe they're seeing some Drew lock the. Maybe maybe because he's not chip on a shoulder. He's got to fight because they brought in teddy well. He's also been working every day and he throws remember that tweet. Drew lock has committed every day. This offseason become their quarterback fucking. Nfl quarterback in the nfl thing. That's day thing. I i liked to titans. Oh i liked her team before this move. I like me more now. How do you start. How do you stop. Derek with seven or six hundred bucks. Can't and then if you stop. Derek how do you how do you stop. Aj holyoke it makes the game. Very simple for the titans. It's like all right. What are you choosing to do. We'll do the opposite. it's just easy. Little check in. Daniel is not as bad as everybody says he is was that all about wasn't i said well you know what though and this is the thing that themes fucking what. He wasn't bad with the dolphins when he was healthy. He just hurt like he took us to the play offs. We lost the steelers in the first round when he was actually healthy implant. How much is the titans awin Afc they plus fourteen hundred. It was just want the with. The dolphins paid made it look bad. You know what. I mean huge right. I actually listen to the tweet for me. You know what. I mean like because expectation is set. Here's what we're expecting. Now he's got a hundred million dollar contract. He's got the passer rating and everything to prove it dollars. I said blackstone four playoff games with the titans. Here's a total of five hundred and thirty four yards in four playoff games. They gotta win over baltimore right. Yeah they had two wins. Beat the path. Say the pats in baltimore point lead or fourteen derrick henry back to back and just fuck and dominated the pats and ravens. That's what he earl. Thomas sowell thomas. I'm pretty sure. And then we're up on the chiefs wasn't eleven fourteen ten. Were they think they're removes accents. Up twenty four nothing so if they were up twenty one fourteen fourteen nothing. I think i mean that team basically still intact by the way now johnny gone. i guess. That's a huge deal by. I mean if their defense if the defense is worth a shit lander last year their defense was so bad able my suit very bad might suit plus fourteen hunch below sprinkle a little bit on there. I don't like it but why not. I mean it might good money right. Fourteen hunch richard sherman still out there who lot players don't corner they do their corners stink. Whoa dude they cut malcolm butler. Yeah yeah right now. The jenkins in cable cable fiery the slaughter. They start at the drafted plus fourteen hundred. I'll bet on artem out here. Thank you for joining us. Guys got the year. I did well not the end of it start. I don't know. I don't know how things are left. I have an idea. But you're all right so nhl you have chrishell. Thank you pat. Thank you fund You have drones at home. I might even go regulation there because the one eighty eight op. But i feel like guy de overtimes with these teams going to take the money but the bruins and then montreal i. We'll take and regulations for even money mitt nba. You have the sons and milwaukee milwaukee box amping exxon's both to cover tonight and i'm taking the sun's minus five mlb. There's only three games tonight. I have the royals. I five plus a halfway. Ooh are you on the other side. No i ain't touching that one with a ten foot bill Dylan buddies the worst first starter in the mlb in the world. One eight one this season. Oh and ten in his starts this year. Fucking jackson cower jackson core cower. Five point eight five era triple eight. I always say we stay away from the guys coming up. Never geez the guy for the jays came up from bucket lit. It ain't five in triple a. He's been dominates five. No i'll take him with the plus half on and then i'm going cops i five now. That is where we will go to war and yeah weather was bad last time out. I like the padres to pull it up here. Or is the padres. You're only no. I'm also going to lay the mice. Half with the socks with peta going for the marlins i saw it. I have no idea who he is. Red sox just swept the yankees playing good ball pavetti last time out six innings pitched three hits to earn. So yeah i'm going to the minds off with the socks here okay gonna roll through these calls quick because they have been awesome in state of a phone the entire time. Oh what do have a euro tit. Bit okay what does it imbaba to win. The golden boot is plus one thousand really. Hey yeah something to think about the for those. Don't know what the golden boot is. He most goals in all of the european tournament. Speaking of euros corey from florida. What are you got guys will subdued. No now not much sunny florida. Living life gone for the Euros was up to the jews on the red props For goals against like no the bigger name nation versus describes at the bottom like. I'm looking at ukraine netherlands. First game minus one for the netherlands is plus eighty. What's your thought on that. The only issue with the minus one is if it if they win by one there. There is no push you you lose is a netherlands. The holland dodge are the favorite and that one. Yeah i think. I took ukraine draw. Nobody yes sorry. Double chance took another money line in that one. Yeah i would have already put it in a bar for every single day for the first week airs. I mean there's two things. I can't stand dutch and people who are intolerant. Other people's cultures and the dutch italy's up to minus one ninety bins turkey. Tae took turkey double chance there. Good value on the fit is unbelievable or maybe i took the under. We're zuri dude. I know. I got a sneaking suspicion. This could be one of those tournaments where the italians come out of nowhere. I seen that it is the other day horn right here. They haven't conceded a goal l. Lost a game since twenty eighteen. I don't know who they've playing turkeys. Goals italy does we do football. Man phone still might drexel. Sloan adjusted for monteria. What do you got all hammer. Down boy found ruined. The money line might as well throw the canadians on their theory. It'd be done. thank thank you. Thank you fucking wouldn't have sons b.'s. Canadians have ads lab. Youth hall have got no shot now because everyone in the world. Yeah feels the jets fucking ryan from nashville royals angels. Who what side are you on there. I don the same that as you boy at t that he's only given up eighteen years and thirty two thirds walton league tune on but niki skates. You keep mentioning. Ot for the islanders and very Plus three hundred for yes. There will be over time. Yup yup yup. I don't that that one. Alan stacey feel like every game is i think you blindly bet the there will be overtime for these nhl playoffs. You are probably up. Quite a bit of money feels like every series every came. Ot for somebody rolando from southern cow. What are you got this row bro. What's going on boys. Yes so row row from so category. Not whatever southborough. We get electric and a twitter right to accept first-quarter little explaining here first quarter. Since i've covered against the lakers for defy. They come in the first quarter against the nuggets This year they lead by two points. Every single forcing played against them. Go ahead locking. Thank you row row row. Row to call. Yeah stephen from chicago. Hey what's up guys. what up out. Don a shot. I'll gumby once. They thanks for paying the bills with the apps. They've been kicking at basically shot. This might be my office. Two locks go for so we have Karaoke cubs patrick. All with He did his match shamron in the last week and So the last two games. He's had three home runs against stanford and that. The i know you love the giants to shot out so i want to go ahead and also against san diego in chicago. He hit three home runs as well too. So i wanna go to five hundred. I put that in a in a three legged parlay I would put the joker thirty points. he He went ahead and winning his portland for thirty five points. Above in four out of five games as they closed out the trailblazers so honestly i think he's gonna put up points. There's no reason not to do it. And it's plus three sixty. What's hardly honestly i see brooklyn taking care of milwaukee. I don't see your guys as optimism with more at all. Like oh i i for for three or adult thought has been get delaware got. How's it going boys. What's up john. I'm not sure if you guys call game one between the sixers and the hulk. But i'm sick. And tired of disrespect towards joel. Embiid and philadelphia seventy sixers allies. Jones disrespect played great and might be the best player in the league. Currently well probably one with a fluke. Put all your money on on the philadelphian. Confide game another game in atlanta and trae young guy. Dan fraud you. Can't you can't just be a homer dude. That was most philadelphia. Call of all time and i respect. It can't just be home. Kennedy your home or dude. You know can't do it can't do it I'm saying jump on these now. Because i got on italy money liner and it's minus one ninety. This is for euros. Belgium money line over russia. I like that and money line over. Croatia never roads netherlands moneyline over ukraine and france draw notepad bad against germany minus one twenty-six good value. Though i hate going against german germany still really really not as they once were team. Verner stinks even though he is he wasn't. I don't know why that was like that tone. He wasn't the hurricanes favorite for the golden boot plus four. Ninety harry gold so yeah i think so have double chance for turkey which i also have the under three and a half in that one in turkey See this is. This is one of those ones. Where it's it sucks that you get your lay them you minus one year lane at you you know. Italy has to win by two. I took the. I took Wales double chance against sweats gareth. Bale one last round. He's retiring after euros. The ukraine double chance. And it's plus one twenty. Yeah you like the netherlands. Yeah like this another orlands squad. Jeannie walton all double chance. Gump is there. No push and soccer. What are you saw the way fan. Duel works met like other other places. We'll have like a teams favored by minus a half. So if they win by one then you're bet would win. Fan duel for soccer has plus one minus one and if it is one it is not a push you win or lose but you lose you lose mid off today sir. So they do have the double chance so that kind of infants it. Oh i've asked about it before. But i mean we can try again tomorrow. We do have John sharon fan sports. And maybe maybe we can ask him tomorrow. Maybe it's a little euro special. Yeah maybe just. Don't tell them you're jenner this time dude. Yeah we should put up the p. l. all lines that we're talking about. I can't thank you guys enough for watching listening at hammered down on twitter and instagram. Subscribe to joe on the youtube. Poor for tell your friends family daylight and money to murchison store up and show dot com same time. Same place tomorrow. Full week. I guess for every good luck tonight hammer dah.

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Pubcast from The Brit and Yankee-Show 299-Ryan Wibby, Wibby Brewing

The Brit and Yankee Craft Beer Pubcast

46:45 min | 2 years ago

Pubcast from The Brit and Yankee-Show 299-Ryan Wibby, Wibby Brewing

"Uh? A law. The Yankee pup studios. Now the Yankee craft beer. Kost near the pipes being pulled. Not allowed to bring the drums, and let's have a party. She just. David. Kaby? Doc you Jamesy project project. Dick, dick Jacobs. Take it away you pay for that. Hello. And welcome to. Yes. Very special edition of Britain Yankee pub, this is addition number two ninety-nine up and ultimate one before the big three hundred and on today show. We have actually something outside of Illinois. We are headed to the great state of Colorado into a burry that I've had some bottles of beer sitting in my Britain Yankee puff ridge for some time. And it was saved because I wanted to get an interview with the man who bird them more from him in just a second. Joining me today in the pob is my two special guest hosts on my left your right? Well, guess it doesn't matter you'll you'll listening watching is guest host number one, Mr. chock-full from church street. Hello, chuck. Hello, phil. Hello. Hello. You're supposed to go like hell. Hello. Hello. Hello. I okay now. We'll get you down. Perfect sometime. Varied up. Yeah. Have you had a busy day brewing? Yeah. You were telling me. Yes. Talking to TJ who's a Hebrew out there yesterday. And he said that things were breaking have you have you fixed them mostly the glycol fixed of the pumps are fixed. Something else, bro. Can't remember what it was now? Okay. Very good. I like it when things break. That's okay. Well, and then next to you vines one on only broom, Mr Kim Mullen. Hello, ken. How's it going filled? Now, you're supposed to say bonus noches, you're sick. Now, it's going to look up the Irish greeting, and what did I say? Well, they say top tomorrow until you very Boorda to you. So we have oh excuse me. We have a special edition as I said today we're going to be calling Colorado now which burried youth. No is in Colorado in Longmont silence. As your blues. I wish it was. No next in long. And for the for the listeners, I was holding. What not? Left-hand either. There's absolutely hundreds of Burs out there in Colorado. But in Lamont, I seem to have a passer of good ones. So you have mentioned Oskar blues you have mentioned left hand. But it's neither those it is a brewery cold Willoughby brewing. Now strange name right WIBC, y what us because it is named after Ryan webby who is the president and broom Astor and who we have on the phone hopefully right now. So welcome Ryan from Longmont, Colorado. How the hell I do. Doing great. How about yourself? Excellent. Thank you. We have been an -ticipant ING giving you a call for some time. The reason being my family my in laws they actually live in Longmont. So I have been to your brewery. I spent New Year's day twenty eighteen there because it was the only place opener was close, and you had a pajama party. If I remember all the servers were in pajamas. We do that every day. So people can recover from the the party, and then relax and watch them 'cause ballgames, and and it's always a good time on near stay there. So I had a good time. And that was where I was introduced to your range of loggers, and we'll get into kind of how you started up in just a second. But one of the other reasons that we wanted to call you was because we had a little discussion here ju to some biz will brought to. To me from my relations for buffed and Christmas. And it includes the selection of four biz that you have done, which I don't know if you've done anything else like this. But they all your knee holistic your nine towed knee who Listrik Russian imperial loggers the ninety nine. Of the office. Oh nine list. Okay. So tell us the story behind these loggers because it generated discussion about between a few people that I know about how the hell did you get ten percent AB out of a log? And while you're doing that I'm going to open one we're going to solve. That's the best way to do it. So our idea in my sister's ingredients to. Craft lagers that it hit any rain would Uber that craft it help obtain and so one of looking at with the Russian imperial stout. So love so much and has so many great friends at thinking awesome stout. I wanted to do the same things as longer. So put recipe together has some smoke more than their some votes. A lot of black mall, chocolate malt. Let a caramel sixty mall. The kids just ends of layers of flavor for for this product. And we split the badge up half was on barely and the other half with barely. And we did four different versions was as justed rum barrel. One just in a bourbon barrel, and then we had a run and a bourbon barrel. Very added. Coffee vanilla and could count it to the to the beer let there for on say eight to ten months. And what does is it kinda created this mocha flavor as the barrel, you know, imported rum or bourbon flavor they played really well with the vanilla and the chocolate which is just brought out different types of flavors that you get out of Creole stout. But since if cold for minute and cold age has much crisper cleaner finish, but still tons of restaurant. I like the fact that you put a little bit of a smoke moat in there, and you must not have put too much because it's just a hint. You know when I'm tasting. And that's. A long time ago from Bobby Farrar who is now a to out in media, Pennsylvania. I work at the same company is heated iron Breen restaurant. And I mean, he's won a medal at the great American beer festival for I think the last seventeen years or something like that. And it's usually for his Russian period style and ones that he always said he was putting around five percent of either Peter malter, all and that smoke will kind of round out a lot of those harsher flavors. You get from the caramel mall or the mall. So I'm tasting this. And I would think it was more like a porter than than than a log. But obviously, that's the fermentation process. Right. This is fucking tremendous. Oh my God. My first sip of this. And I didn't know what to expect. But as pointed out that little smokiness in it. Yes, kicks. It off to me is like if can someone tastings says, I taste like a smoked malt. Then you probably put too much in like if I was drinking this that win jump out at me. I would say maybe in I really nit picked at. I think I do. But like you said it's just in the background there. And that's that's the way. I like it. That's the way I do with my Russian imperials as well as just a little bit. Even though, you know, they'll say, oh, it's not supposed to have Piedmont in there. You know, what it does? So so what does the what does the title referred to? Do. You have nine toes. Not yet. Haven't dropped a keg Onuma. Are you familiar with the film the big about mile? Yeah. These guys are I never go into it. Right. You're a big lebowski guy. Right. Can I would say about ski guy, but? The thing is when they after they cut off the the guys denial is real friends. So he's nine nine list, and the ideas that have a bottle of one of these beers that you believe in nothing like the nihilist that we got the name nine Nyla. That's hints on the label. As I look at the bottle. I forgot. You've got a you've got a footprint and oversee that small so is missing. And you you've done a nice thing because you put your insignia on the bottom of the footprint. So tell us a little bit about that insignia. Let's find out a little bit about Whidbey brewing. Your in Longmont, and that insignia is is significant. I mean, we wanted to say call was out in Colorado where a lot of us the Colorado flack market their product. And we kinda wanted to be something that was a little bit. You know, it will to try and send that just the state of Colorado. But just the feeling that you get here while you're at the state the mountains, and there's several ws layer into our. So you can see just a repetition of our our brand. And then in the center is six points, which has a couple of different meanings for us one for me is six point Starr was used during the medieval time as the Signi a brewer or brewery. So like you'd walk stream Sussex when are that, you know, that was a bird burry. It also has some significance for. My business partner who is originally from the Chicago area. And as we all know that Chicago flag has info or six point stars on it. And so kinda show this little Takagi element at the foot of the mountain, which is kind of is very Representative longline itself. Which was a town started by people who move from Chicago via land in Colorado, and they call it little Chicago eventually became called Longmont after that. Yeah. I I'm I'm very familiar with the low moan area. I think you'll brewery faces the Santa Fe and something railroad, right? Yes. And it's really cool because you can sit there and say all these big ass American trains come rolling in. And it's pretty cool. How long have you been open? We open Labor Day weekend to fifteen so just over three years now and you're in a building that used to have something to do with turkeys or chickens. Yep. The Butterball land if for. You know, the big economic director in the city of long month, but in the early ninety on aggregate all their production down to Georgia. So the Turkey plant left empty. We're actually across the street in their old truck maintenance facility. So it's very feeling the dry semi in there to do truck repairs or spray the trucks down after they made delivery to kind of get rid of solid weight. So is left after the turkeys water which. Really gives the great shifting to build. The biggest you know, very the size of wanted. It's eighty three hundred foot building until our seventeen hundred square feet and the rest is left for production safe. So allows only for quite sizeable taproom enough to business into the regional or that we be it. Also, we have very large overhead garage doors or meant for Semites ago now are covered with glass or there's tons of sunshine throughout the entire tapper ry. I mean, I know our guys in the house don't they wear sunglasses for safety goggles that are any other dogs because it's just so right in there. All the time is this really awesome for the feeling that you're in the -bility. Wow. So you can see what you're doing. Yeah. We we made it in the upper. So people could see into the brewery. So there's a very large glass wall that separates tapper from the brew house. He could see the statement Bill you can see the reverse in 'cause they're always act there. But it kind kinda gives them safety enough that they can listen to loud, and you know, music with whereas. Yeah. When up until about a year and a half to one of the only reworked those nights that have that interaction with the customer base, but they'll feel prophet at the same time. So it's. It's it's a dream. Come true. That's for sure sounds cool. How how big is your Bruce system? I we have a three vessels fifteen barrel. Brew help and thirty or sorry. Eight thirty barrel. Fermenters in a thirty barrel logging things and one thirty barrel writing. We knock out twice a day about ten to twelve hours. We've mash cooker so we do separate for everything for making loggers is the best way to make logger starting with the separate for them ash. Our lottery ton is actually geared for the twenty barrel system. So we can do much larger batches at like the ninety nine minutes. Still get really good efficiency. And then I kept a will. But for dedicated world bowl, and that will allow the double production within the same day. You mentioned that you had some lagging tanks. So. Attorney straight. We just let our beer's lager in the ferment. We pulled the east off the bottom of this some point. And they sit there for, you know, maybe six six or eight weeks, but you you go from the fermented. And then you move them into the lagging tanks is that what you guys do that. Correct. Okay. We have on a logger into inks that are kinda act on top of each other. Yeah. Picture of them here. I'm showing them are shown them. Oh, yeah. Looks like you named him after I I don't know many people that know about the twenty seven club. But I did. And I told my kids about it and they were pretty shocked. Well, twenty seven club share with the clause. Can you wanna tell us from what I under-? And if you're true ocsta- are you don't live at the age of twenty seven. And so, unfortunately, there's a lot of to Rockstars out there that died aged twenty seven. So the first Hicks that we had were Jim Morrison. Gimme Hindri pig than from the Grateful Dead, Janice. Joplin Amy wine how Kirk Cobain we since added, Pat who is part of a rep crew out of Houston and Linda Jones who used to be a backup singer for Al green and diabetes. When she only seven. I I mean, we here in their rest kinda clarify and just let you know. Young tasting beard or become more mature. And so I came up to the naming idea because of artists are resting in peace and we want our beard rest in peace offer. Those two weeks logging on. That's really cool. So from the aspect of what we're drink in. Now, we cracked open the one the the Bubba mbira nihilist with coffee now, am I correct in saying that hot box coffee was the one that also blues put into the. They put it into something. I know because I call it hot box is. So what is hot box coffee is that a brand that's really popular out that. The coffee or owned by the audible corporation. So they actually have a rosary inside of their main brewing facility and their former row third got Nowy kinda just wanted to connect with because we both liked each other's products. And so he brought me into their place. And kinda just astonished me with what flavors coffee can produce and my favorite thing. From him was a got a pound of Nicaraguan coffee that had been aging in a ten fifty bourbon barrel age beer, one of their barely barrels as of the coffee in. And I remember having for Christmas as you're making the coffee, it bourbon and the air. When we mix it with some really burgundy eggnog who really freely as rich as the best way to spend Christmas. So can you you you'll you'll swelling and sniffing and tasting. What are your wreck? I didn't coffee. I didn't get to comment on the first one which go ahead, which is the I like it when Bruce another bruise biz. The first one was just was I say just but was the aged in bourbon barrels version, and it it's kinda cold fills porn on a little bit cold. And I still got this layer of flavor of of mall aromatics out of it. They were just fantastic. And then as it warmed it got the mouth feel got creamy and just just the flavors are really coming together in that beautifully. You don't necessarily taste bourbon. It's like, no. It's not like most bourbon barely beers. And let me let me jump in there because he said I said that co will I went on the fact that you code it a Lago. So I thought log should be the little, you know, little chillier what what temperature really works for this. It's okay. Because it's going to warm up as I put my hands around it. Right. I know. But okay, I'm getting it out the fridge air. We'll Ryan what what what temperature should it be? Those bottles forty to forty five degrees. Probably the the prime temperature range for them. Just because of the reasons. The air. Max will start releasing from the beer and just give you more. Well rounded flavor profile. But it's like that cold. It's like it freezes your tongue and don't really taste every come on. So you guys have been there fall. What we now twenty nineteen. So you'll be coming up on the fourth year in seems like I continue to see a large growing population who alike in you'll be you've won some awards. How you you know, how you handling this expansion if you will? Or for the production side. I'm pretty fortunate have a spectacular team of Ruhr than anyone guys. We kinda we maximize everything so take FC fill a right back up. We just purchased a new caning line. Current canine does about thirteen minute and sudden well for us now, but it's a two manual outgrowing it so any line do forty cans of minute be here in March just it'd be night and day after that year. And then so brewing wise on just I couldn't be prouder. Those guys everybody that or exact there started out of the keg watcher is moved up to get to the position or in. Everyone really knows everyone else's job and can help out when needed and that's kinda. How I got into the industry is a start as the the low guy in totem pole and learned every job going up. And so I wanted to keep that kind of model after two. I was going to ask how how did you get into brewing? While you a home broker, and how the hell did you change that from a hobby into hey, it's my life. It's the first batch here ever made. I said he'd chemistry. It's the big New York. And the last lab we had my junior year of college was we've learned the chemistry of beer making. And light bulb. Just went off in my head. And I was like you. You could make beer they're living with the chemistry. And so I started home brewing there and from my first batch of home rule, I knew that this is gonna do for the rest of my life. Not it wasn't just making beer. It was owning the brewery and making it that way. So after I graduated I do I need to get some practical experience. So I became a taproom person bottling line operator at a local brewery moved down to the Philadelphia area. Gonna just got a job at a brew brew pub. The great thing about is aren't health grew in restaurant. And in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and we brood over a hundred thousand year in the first year, and I got to create my own recipes interact with guests is a front who's just a great way to see the world of beer from there. I moved back to to get a production facility. But had this still does your for former education. And so I went to the VA in Berlin, Germany is six months or defy broom course, and there for extra four months, basically 'cause I just fell in love with Germany and didn't wanna leave. So. Yeah, I actually always lived up each side in the school, the west, I I guess that the travel or the I made every day like people couldn't do twenty years before I got there, which is kind of a surreal feeling. And I mean, the most valuable was I learned how to make loggers from sermons and. Favor favorite German, isn't favorite. What are some of your favorite German breweries are lagers? I mean, Augustine her is I didn't stop drinking beer when I was there. Juncal's really good too. And then I think the most memorable experience I had is we were cleaning out the burry, and we found Berliner vice that was made in like nineteen sixty five. What year was this? Two thousand. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Did you drink it it we had some it wasn't carbon? We've found the once the vitals, the rusty cap most aided in the other one, but it was just thought it was incredible. That I mean, probably is a guy who made that beer are no longer walking on the earth, and we're still drinking some of their product. So they watch it. I was born in fifty three I'm still. Yeah. Matthew. Hey, you might have been no. By the way. I've just got you next been name rusty caps. Yeah. Right. We're gonna crack open your aged in rumba rose version because we want to do a comparison. I certainly enjoy the coffee version, which the coffee is very subtle in it and the combination it's got vanilla right and cacao nibs or something. Yeah, they're all just so subtle. And and well as perfect landed. You know, you're not getting knocked out by coffee is just. Just. Yeah. We've had some busy out with coffee. Hey, Ryan, every get sucked into brewing, his business, and do you ever get, you know, pulled into doing stuff that trendier just to, you know, people happy and like a hazy, log possibly. It's funny. I think we get into the locker processing like reading, we don't even filter anything so tall, definitely clarify. And so we haven't done that. We don't use. You don't use finding agents by any chance for. Just with the horizontal logging tank. The since from the top of the thing the bottom of short that yeast was his naturally drop the solution in a pretty quick time. Compared to him is in a stand up, you see sits longer, and so we I mean, very clear beer, it was also this kind of a product of the process of opening up breweries where? Times. I mean, we ran out money right before your opening up in the last thing, I'm going to buy the poster like while filtered and it's worked out so far. So. Uh-huh. I'm really glad about that. Because I've worked on filters before. And it's not fun. It's just a lot of cleaning. And a lot of this an extra step that kind of you know, so just to kind of run down some of your. Say nontraditional adjuncts you've added into some of your biz. I think you did one a correct me if I'm wrong moon dunk. Oh, had something funky in it. We throw it into that here. It's a lower bitterness the hot when we're brimming. But the cow or added towards the back into the Boyle, they actually don't give chocolate tweet or chocolate milk chocolate sweetness, but they give more like coffee. Don't talk bitterness to the beer so nicely rounded out. We also wanna silver medal for f- with that beer too. Yeah. I was that was one of the ones that I kind of looked at on the list and said ou should I have here is it any good? And I was pleasantly surprised. I mean, I I really enjoyed the whole flight that I had which was I don't know. I think probably about six or eight of and I they would just great. So how are you going to expand your business? We only going to be able to get you. If you go to Colorado. Currently it's are Kirk think capacity or volume capacity is fifty six hundred barrels of beer, we did thirty eight hundred pass years shooting around five thousand this year. And then depending on how to eighteen and up will be there having more tank, so we can start to serving out of state at that point pay reign of question. This regards to barrels, do you reuse your barrels or once you're sort of one and done, and then you sell them and move on. Yeah. Just the way that we're processing veer loggers or just the tend to be more delicate. We we. We trash are barrels or we use them as Gadio furniture Asser. We use them. Yeah. Yeah. I just and we definitely barely differently than a lot of other very square on. We almost finished products into the barrel. And they're they're more sensitive to temperature. We keep the barrels cold and our floor. So they don't have lot richer to Asian the Vero is, you know, technically, logging further stated that cold immature just in apparel. Longer to pick up a lot of that barrel. Rumor that favor. So, yeah, let's temperature fluctuations and suppose humidity's controlled a little better possibly. So you know, what does the future hold for you guys? It sounds light you settling into a business model that is going to keep you going for a very long time because traditional biz adjust. I, you know, there was a discussion point that went out on Facebook recently from some guy code the burnt out via guy and had a blog and his token about how how have have all these styles. Really are they really gonna lost? Or is it just the the people who tasting them on something new the next week? And as they get older will they go back to the traditional styles, which I see you'll brewery, providing the traditional styles just like just like Joe street does and Ken produces some outstanding English miles. I have to say. What can is there anything that? You might do that would like kind of get out of the law Garing, and perhaps do an IP a poultry or something like that. But we do we have the kind of do experiment mental here coming out spring, which is a day logger, and they Szekely it's like a cider beer hybrid with fruit flavor, and that's such a little bit a deviation all done traditionally, and that's just because we will appeal to a larger audience of this is also a gluten reduced products which get asked about quite a bit. And so. That's of part of it. But I going back to the personal like lager aspect. I think thing that is just right and true. And always will be with our culture where I don't think as the IP or the super bitter. I've hit they're going to go away. But I don't think they're going to be a long lasting trend for for the craft beer scene. I think kind of roles people kinda like to have, you know, they wanna take something different in new like some IT eight has made like biscuits in Asia cocoa puffs or something like that. But at the end of the day, you know, have, you know, a log or something that's all it flavorful. But these your leave your palace Christian clean and make you wanna drink another one. And I just noticed that when I would think it's my first year in the industry and. I know these brewers into the, you know, a conference they've been trying these different beers. And they always end up drinking a PBR something like that. Because he's wanted to have something that's just either drink or kind of wrap your mind around at the same time. I'm with you there. I think I think the beginning of, you know, making all these beers. With added sugars them, you know, the lactose the milkshake IPA's and the stuff age age on cereal and pastries doubts round es and is and stuff marshmallow. It was I think it's people trying to make something that's out of, you know, the newest thing they're trying to make something new that's different. And then it brought a lot of new beer drinkers into drinking, but drinking beer, but you know. You know, I kind of equate it with either wine-drinkers where you start with a dessert wine and you move onto a. As you drink more and more wind you move on to maybe the whites and you end up with the dryer, dry reds of really get into it or like cereal. Would you eat when you were young you like these super sweet cereals, we bakes? Okay. Never mind. If you're English other English, the second English reference it none of us got here. Hey, it is the Britain. Yankee you guys the Yankees. I want to I want to go back to the coffee thing you talked about. I think any brewer who's thinking about Brune with coffee outta spend some time with a coffee boutique or craft coffee roaster that says into coffee as we are into beer. I did it with ten drops down in Plainfield. And it's first time, I taste coffee that tasted coffee that tasted like blueberries. I mean, it's amazing. I also learned that the more you roast coffee, the the more the less caffeine get so all those times, I was drinking talion rose thinking, I was getting really high caffeinated stuff. It was actually getting off it. But but now, you're you're and the other thing I wanted to say about your beers. We've had three of oh. By the way, we're on the Rumney. Now, we're on the rum barrel aged just a straight up one right now. These are ten percent beers are big beers. A lot of the. Russian imperial stout. Are so sweet on the finish. And yours are really. Yeah. A really nice finish. The the viscosity is excellent. And it's really enjoyable. You could really drink, you know, a fair amount of this without I know, I haven't like rents in between. So I gotta tell you Ryan, I usually keep a record of memorable biz for whatever reason I had a pickle Goza. Now. It was a brewed by local company on it. Wasn't that great details? But it was one of those biz that you just went back and had a sample of. So your your busy going on my twenty memorable biz for twenty nineteen even though you did it in twenty eighteen right? But I mean as thinking for that. Glad they're holding up on the of it. The my I don't my words. See the bottle. They cringe a little bit because we were using to fill every bottle we use by Homebrew Kanter pressure bottled filler, so they're filled one time and time. Took it out. I think for the four different version. It's about sue weeks of Auteuil labor of love at least down these styles. They can handle that. So you can do this one again. I don't know we have a lot of fun recipes kinda upper sleeve we've been doing we've been doing the same with our Dunkel, which is our extended winter seasonal to seven and a half percent augurs his chocolate, and then we actually aged on vanilla and more chocolate in the barely versions are just I mean, they've meld really well with that the chocolate multi little bit more than the beer that you're having right now, the one thing that I mean at least. From brew masters for like that. I wanna start developing or a wild side of our brewery to make a really great hell and Hellas are like the thing to start putting a barrel aging salaries and stuff like that. And so that's kind of the big plan for we're going to start to a more these larger bottled version. Well, I think you mentioned a Hello slog. I think one of the baseline biz that I've come to know in love is from jocks Joe street that heavenly hell us. It sounds like what we need to do is an exchange of beverages here where you can you can send some of you goodies. And we'll focus on those. And then we'll certainly in return send you some balls of the stuff that these guys making and Ken if you've done any lottery. You have actually didn't I bro? Logger with you. Chuck, so many biz. At how mine, and we were we were. That's sponsors bell. Khatun Dunkel Voisin. That was okay. Yeah. That's right. Oh, okay. Pretty sure. Yeah. And that's right. Nicole the five gallon bucket. Visors right heaven. That's all right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm such a neophyte. I just liked to drink the beer, and I have to say that the patient on these beers was high right? I've had them sitting in my fridge for a long time since thanksgiving to be quite onus. And I was just so hoping they work on this down, and they did not let us down. No. And I'm glad these guys liked him too. It's not just me. Ryan. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time. I hope you batteries not running down on your cellphone. I'm all good up here. I have one other thing to ask it you're out there. Just a a little ways from Denver, and I know craft brewers conference this year is out there in Denver. Can I can I come? Can I? I'm gonna be out there. But I'm wondering if you're doing anything for that. We are hosting the lunch for the long bridge were which is the Monday before. And we bring it down to Denver for it. We don't really party set up. But they will definitely be there. Drove and the one thing that would be doing is really good. At is. The the beanbag us games porn whole very one. We've won six thousand dollars at the cornhole tournament craft brewers conference two years in a row. So we're looking to bring some more money home for. Oh, pretty cool. It sounds like a challenge to me what just to. Hey, Ryan, do you do you can this as well? Then these these lagers dark loggers nine hundred nine they're only in bottles. I think we have only a couple cases less right now. And it's just the run versions that are less. We can our our mainstay product. I just Arcadia really important to our acting process to anything that's been in a barrel. Never go to the line because I don't want to risk infection with other province. I think you should keep that old canning line and use it for that. Maybe I just sell it to pay for the new one. Okay. Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much again, I'm gonna promote people going out to Colorado. They have to take a trip up to see. I mean, they got three great breweries in in Longmont. And just let you know. I was at left hand brewing one week off they opened. Thank you very much dates me. Yeah. But now you've got a slew of great breweries Justin loan a law alone. And you know, you guys easy to find tell us exactly wept. People can't find the sixty four thousand dollar question. We ask is what's your phone number? Phone number is three three seven seven six four five nine four damn sixty thousand dollars. Berlow in St. downtown Longmont, but you can find our beards all over the front range as far north as for Collins as far south of Castlerock. Hey, there's another burry full Collins. Couple of. Yeah. Enough of those guys. Thanks. We're going to carry on. We're going to try that rum Byrol coffee version, which hopefully will be just as by the way, I think to sum up the difference between the two the bourbons a little more soft and the rum tends to be more shop. You know, there is there is a difference between the two you can taste it subtle. Both very very good. So yeah, we're going to have to exchange biz. You guys had a on the way. I know that. Oh, cool. Thank you very much. Well, I will review those with well, actually, we have reviewed you'll be as before when I've had them. So I I haven't found one. I haven't liked that. Let me say that. Yeah. That's good good enjoyable biz. There is so many out that lazing gentlemen. But I think you need to take a trip to be. I'm gonna stop out there while I'm at CBC. And I can I jump in your baggage. We're driving out. Oh in. Yeah. Oh my God. On phil. I've done that. They won't do it in a Prius. The gas. A Ryan again. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thanks again. Take care. On the. On on the in many. This. On this bone on the. Dave. John k. But these.

Colorado Ryan webby Longmont Ken phil Pennsylvania Britain Mr Kim Mullen Chicago Britain Yankee pub dick Jacobs Jamesy David Illinois Mr. Lamont Kirk Cobain caramel mall John k
Thomas Kim  Everclean | S4:E21

The Win-Win Effect

1:10:51 hr | 4 months ago

Thomas Kim Everclean | S4:E21

"What is up everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the women. Fat podcast presented by wind studios. I'm your host chris. Ross and if you're new to us welcome really excited and blessed to have you here for the first time the outcome there were after an each episode of this show is the introduce you to many people's i cross pass with to inspire and help you our listeners to manifest anything you want out a life how i go about achieving this is one heartbeat one mission. What outcome that's assess our feature guests for today's episode. Is thomas kim. He is an entrepreneur investor with a focus on real estate in small businesses with high growth strategies with nba in a bs in engineering behind him. This shy town. Nato saw huge gap in motor vehicle detailing and the car wash industry for those who are unaware. The car wash industry is very unorganized and there are very few companies controlling the car. Wash industry in the last decade. More than seventy percent of car owners started using car wash facilities instead of washing cars at our home premises. This industry is so big. That eight million vehicles are washed every day at car washes. Let me ask you a question. What do you think they're deciding. Factor is a one person going back to the same car wash after washing their car at that facility. If you said customers experience then you would understand why. I had to have this guy on the show. He is the founder and ceo everclean. A modern branded car wash in his social mission is to enrich lives through opportunity and holistic mentor ship. Before i kick this up a couple of notches and die right in stand by for a quick message. And i'll see you on the other side in this. Podcast is part of the wind checked studios network where podcasters come together to focus on community collaboration and collective impact for more information on how to apply to join the network. Go to www dont win. Jacked dot com. That's w. i n. J. e. c. T. dot com. If you're ready to make a difference through podcasting. And we're waiting to see you there. Mr thomas kim ladies and gentlemen introducing to the world my friend. What's going on dude. You're right doing great crispy to be here with you and i'll be looking forward to this. Not just because of who you are individually as a person and what you've done obviously in business but you just have a natural ability to be able to put someone put a smile on someone's face when you a conversation with you and i haven't even met you in person just yet so i probably it's probably amplified. Maybe like ten x twenty x. Have you ever had that kaba compliment. Someone said that before. I've i've gotten that a little bit Here and there. But i. I mean chris you have a level of energy and it's hard. It's hard not to have your on me so there's some reciprocation going here too. And there's a lot of recycling of energy. Both of us being conscious of that. I think this is going to really help the listeners. But thank you so much for coming onto show. Oh thank you. Thanks so much for having us just being willing to listen to our story learn about us little bit one hundred percent. There's you know. Obviously you owning what you own and the reason why behind what you do for eleven move kind of kicked us off and give the listeners a little bit more context and who you are and what are about especially when you your wife your family man. You know things that you've done over the years a lot of mentor ship. A lot of being under the tutelage of the right people around you. But i know that what you own. Obviously the car wash the branding of the school. Technically kind of memberships in really taking it in my opinion doing something innovative and doing something a little different than normal people would actually see when it comes to car washes as in general but for the most part like how. How did you get here thomas. Yeah yeah there's definitely a story behind over clean. So i'm a i'm a chicago guy born and race and of korean immigrants and i had a front row seat really to just a scrappy figure it out approach to life mud. Oh don't know the here how things work don't know the language and and i just i just watched my parents figure it out My dad left when i was seven years old. And i know that had a big impact on me But i actually never felt the void of that growing up. Because i just always had older men that i Respected step into my life. Take me under their wing for reasons. I couldn't understand and invest in me. And that's just that's been the story of my life. Which only later. I realized is not common but to this day. I have a lot of a lot of older men who would considered their adopted korean son Fast forty career wise I was an engineer. worked at caterpillar construction equipment and that really set me off on trajectory of doing manufacturing strategy in factories and at the same time That was kinda my daytime thing at nights. I was working with youth and mentoring youth at my church And and i always had this heart for. I loved i loved business. I loved the competitive drive of creating value in the world. And then i love mentoring. People so so You know i. I did that both of those things for a while. And then i started getting into real estate development ahead Some some friends from elementary school that we were investing Some money together and eventually a joined them in started doing real estate salesman multifamily rehab north side of chicago right time right place right age. When the market crashed we were able to take advantage of that and As i move forward. I looked for what what what can i do after that. And that's when i Saw an opportunity in the car wash stays in started everclean. The the reason. Why i bring that up because i wanted to listeners. The here come at a year mouth rather than me. Kinda framing it this way. Because you've done so much in what i do love about your story in particular. They were both engineers. And now we're here doing business stuff a lot because the way. The engineers think for those who aren't in engineer to listeners. We look at things completely different than a normal person. We look at things and figuring out. Okay what's wrong with it. How do we fix it. And then we reverse engineer and go backwards and i built by businesses. That way thomas. We've had a previous conversation about this. And i'm looking at. I see an opportunity faster than a lot of other people. Because that's just the way my mind works and seeing. How can i improve this. And i think that's something that were that car wash industry and you leaning into that. You saw a huge gap in opportunity. There i love that absolutely. I can't i. Cannot chris walk down the street without picking apart. Why the light pulse spacing is what it is. How did this neighbor fence. That's not in compliance. Like i just you know that. That's no i in my. Yeah when the car. Wash industry I i. I laughed about it because i just finished watching breaking bad and i. I couldn't take him seriously. I right And and the idea of being at a cocktail party. I watched cars. What do you. What do you do sir. What do you really do. Enjoy it still there. But i looked at this industry. And i saw the average driver can't name a single brand. And so here. You've got two hundred and seventy six million vehicles in the country and most people don't have a single name that the associate with that to me. The industry was up for grabs and the experience feels like going back. In time it could be nineteen seventy and the way it looks and smells and in feels and when when i started digging into that i realized my goodness there is forget the one car wash. There's a whole industry opportunity here. Them can transform the experiences of something. That's so common everyone needs and that's why we went after. I love the experience because it is an experience from companies that i've ever been around. Thomas look at it as an experience rather than looking at as business touch on that we we talk about this is a value. That we unashamedly stole from zappa's We want the customer when they come in to physically move their mouths and go wild out that those that's the we don't just want them to be impressed. Me specifically are looking for that word and we want them to say it And our guys have tons of stories so if we're not blowing your mind when you come through here we're not hitting the mark. That's that's our bar and so we've designed the entire site around the team. Member customer interaction. A lot of car washes you go you. You don't even know if someone's working on site or or you pull up and then they kind of run out of the back office. Can t shirt and shovel. And they're like you know cigarette amount. What's up man. How's it going voice. Absolutely you know arp broaches. We got guys in there in collars. They're clean you. Come up there waiting for you. Yeah hey welcome to everclean may offer you a couple of minutes refresher. That's a first line. But what normally. We got a charted really. That's the first you need to know anything else about me. Or what buying and They say it sure and then we're offering them what you're a couple of different sense. Which one do you like. And from the beginning it's we're engaging a sense that normally car i'm focused on Want you to smell something. Because that's a very powerful experience. I really from the start. All the way to the end we try to target the the senses that that you would experience visual smell. Res- number one was number one number one cent. Yes i'm just curious. Pinochle is it okay. That was my listeners in. I know this is probably going to be like why. Why is christmas so much about car washes in. He's asking these questions that was my first job will technically job when i got an age when i was legal age for me being able to work but i did a lot of you know. Wash cars my whole life. I i cut grass. I wrote a rake leaves. I've had my own type of. I dunno i long hair type of business in a coal second. You know. obviously we've talked about that before. And then i had took over a neighborhood and that sort of binding quip and people started cutting grass forming those my territory and then i was getting commissions from that. That's built a business before. I even got a job. My first job was a car wash and mike jackson. And you're listening to this is one of my my best friend from elementary school. Like when you meet someone like when you come best friends with someone that young like you make fun of somebody or something like that or something happens like we're best friends. And then he was the person that got me the job he worked. Well he lived right next to the car. wash anyways. been a long story short. Now's my first album hot as hell in charleston and they got a lot of in the rotation of getting a lot of tips for being in a car wash when people would come up. I knew how to drive a standard stick shift. A lot of people back then would drive. It knew how to drive. Stick so i would get in. There would. but mike's the way. I looked at it and i look at it this way because i've come from cutting grass and all about the relationship. I'm always been a relationship type of guy and making people feel a certain way when you make people feel a certain way they'll give they're more open to giving you tips especially if you're working for commissions or something of that nature i would actually have conversations with people would hop out the car i'm like. Hey what's it does similar to what you just talked about where you. Why are you getting your car. Washes the normal call wash. How long do you. I mean how typically do you normally wash your car like where you going on a date. And they talked about their date. Okay where'd you meet her. This and this. And i would develop that relationship as i'm going through and they would always come back and ask for me always so go ahead and loved them. The penal code is one of my favorite ones. It's it's the kind of Job where when you're when you're working like you see the hustlers really fat. So i could totally picture you at car was dressed in work in and and really hustling not only physically but even like mentally conversational. You're you're engaging with customers and and that's that's really what we look for in in our guys B because car watching people get car washes yeah to protect your car from the west and things like that but from that people get car washes to feel good They just they feel good about their. It's more like going to the barber or the hairstylist hundred percent. Bring your hundred percent or so. We try to create that experience right. What does the barbara do. When you're cutting your hair talks to you. How's it going halberstadt conversations. They made a movie about it. From town is a station is a totally different. Like me being italian group in south carolina. Which was you know. Barbershop was like a church so i will go to the barber shop and i had one. Barber seems roddy passed away years ago. Remember i remember cutting. I don't have any hair now. But i would go there every friday even if i didn't have to get a haircut i've gone through my grandfather. The conversations that would happen in a barbershop that i experienced and i was that young. It transformed my life. Yeah it laid the foundation on just being really outspoken. and quick one liners. I was always good at one liners and i learned that from a young experience has just being barbershop but at one hundred percent correct. They're having their building that relationship with you because there's how many other barbershops out there in a world but it's a sense of community as well and and as as businesses here. Here's the the challenge. I think before us. The consumers want a world class brand. They want the efficiency and the excellence that consistency of a world class company. But they walker relationship of small town business brian. So how do you bring the shoe together to it to a consumer I i liked it. He said that ended his conversations on a little different than a lot of maybe interviews. That you've been on. Because i i loved us about different reason what i stated. I just mentioned to you on friday. I went and stayed at a four seasons for my own personal reasons. Why do you think stated a four seasons. think you. You knew you knew what you needed and you you and and you knew what would be what would meet that. What would meet that need And four seasons has a level of luxury and pampering that you could expect and count on when you go there. I stayed at a four seasons. Goodness gracious in vegas. I think i was. This is years man feels like a lifetime ago. I feel like. I don't even know how old i was. At a time i know is an education i was wondering was recruitment type of thing in education and i was speaking on stage and i was in vegas. I watch sitting outside and is back in the day when i used to smoke cigarettes. I don't do it anymore. But don't judge me for those smoke. But i was smoking a cigarette sitting outside. And of course you're in vegas. You might be a little hung over whatever it might be some sitting outside and i watched a buses during march madness time. Okay and the big tournaments are going on. And we're. I was leaving that day to go into airports while i was sitting outside and i was sitting outside just smoking a cigarette watching. I watched a bus pull up. I can't remember what college it was. What the concierge and people who the baggage the guys they walked. They treated them like they were like. Nba stars not college. Wouldn't you know it. The next bus pulled up a bustle and nuns. I don't know if they were having none convention or whatnot guest they treated. It's not even better than they treated the basketball players. What does that say overall. Do you think they've they just value people in the customer. They how they felt. Yeah yeah i just wanna have them increased their experience so much that it makes them what to come back. There's only there's a couple different In london now that. I'm in london. There's a couple of different kinds chained and i asked. I stayed at this one hotel recently. I think it was about maybe a year and a half go in and say recently and they were so good customer service. If i would have probably said. I need x. y. z. They've admitted happen. Yeah and i asked him. I said let me ask you a question. Did this used to be a four seasons at all. They're like what do you say that five years ago. That's all the training that we sent them to the four seasons and i was like ha ha that means something and i pay attention. I built an when i was there. I was like when i ever owned a business. We'll on a business. One day i'm going to build the business around like customer being customer. Centric i and everything else to come from from here everything else. Since we're talking hotels. I have to share. What was kind of a bedrock experience to formulating this Customer service focus I met a boutique hotel in taipei taiwan. I checked into the hotel. I leave for the very first time and the bell man says hello mr kim and okay. So he knew my name right away and the following morning i go into Get breakfast Sit down. And i tried to go get some papaya. They're they're all out And then i asked him. Could i have some pya and then also by any chance. Do you have any skim milk. Trying to be healthy. And and and i go sit down. They come and they bring me a massive plate of papaya completely. Cut fresh right. And then they say I'm sorry mr kim. We don't have any skim milk but my colleague is on his way to the store. He'll be right. Back comes back they bought. I don't know this guy took some petty cash. When it bought it brought it back I'm blown away following morning. Go to have breakfast. Stimul- milk ready for me blown away. How how much time. And how much cost was that That milk was two bucks. You know maybe a few minutes but man. They wanted me as a customer for life right and how long. How long has it been since that time. That's been Seven years seven years. And we're still having. You're having a conversation about absolutely think about the if this goes out to the listeners. That people did you own a business or they haven't even gotten a chance to own a business yet. That's how you start. You provide your customers with such a high level of customer service in a personal feel to it that it changes the way that they look at that industry and loved and they'll never they'll never forget you man you make you make them feel that way when when they got to get a car wash. they'll never forget you. Our goal is to own that space in people's minds when they are watching that that all they think about is every clean okay. Let's bliss peel back. The layers of that real quick. And i think maybe another reason why you're able to take it to another level on top of just even being like community centric and customer centric the reason why say community and ties into co customers because you have to know the community to be able to adapt to increase experience of the customers right turning him into a lifelong customer. So on top of that you have to develop your people and that's something you really do. Well of you develop your staff. You develop the people within and giving them the opportunity to grow and giving them more knowledge there. You have some people that make sign up and they get to assistant manager level. Those types of managed pretty quickly but they. You're you're dumping in a lot of mentoring. A lot of value there that most companies are overlooking because of time and lack of time. So talk about that if he can. I think that stems from your ship in you being underneath a wing of so many great people around you when i first got into the space i notice that a lot of the guys who are working there were Of a particular background usually a part time job hoppers just working odds and ends hourly job. So they can pay for their gas and their cell phone bill and Most of these guys. That i i saw were were lacking the the motivation and really passion for what they were doing. So i started taking them out for one on once a big deal for us in our in our practices. And that's i'm gonna take you out for lunch. And i'm just gonna have a conversation with you. I wanna find out about your life. I wanna know. what are you like to do. What excited what gets you going. What are you good at. What do you not good at. And i want to start talking about. Where do you wanna head we started doing in my goodness. Our guys started coming. They the their level of engagement Then then we made a party out of it and we do it every two months. It's used to be every month and we used to do it in my house. All the locations would come over. We'd have dinner throw a big party. And i'm going to give a talk about one of our core values and i share the vision of where we're heading into. You want to join us. I'm telling you that following day. That's sunday nights on monday morning. Number of guys who quit all their jobs other jobs and come full time with us. 'cause 'cause they're ready to go. That really has grown into training and development program that we have a master plan and Guys come in started They they start at minimum wage and they work their way up in all the different competencies and within twelve eighteen months they become managers. Earning salary ninety percent of coverage 401k opening their own site with a team that they've hired recruited and trained themselves. And that's what we get most excited about every location that opens for us. It's not just a car. Wash lakisha can generate more. Money is actually behind that. It's a life that's been transformed and someone who's talent has been unlocked and now they were really going hard trying to grow into a leader and you wouldn't be unlocked potential unless you took an extra time and took them for that one on one and asked the diagnostic questions. It really dug into their story. Most people in those and that type of industry. Yes you're right. They are looking to pay their cell phone bill or pay for gas and look for a side job. they're not they. Don't look at a car wash as a place where they can really flourish and grow. Because you can't you start a call mentioning and a car wash space in the industry. You can't you can't name five biggest ones. You can't i. Can't i probably do it in charleston. But i can't do it is in nationwide in the united states can't so when they're saying that name there you know like ever clean. That's gonna mean something in the next couple of years. Big time. i mean have already success. You've had and every single location. There's a story from that that came from that special relationship that you've had without one on one and showing them. There's a bigger opportunity here. You just have to take a step back and realize what your true potential is like. What do you really want to do with your life or viewing this as a stepping stone and getting you to where you really wanna go or do kim. You even visualize those steps in. And that's what we find a lot of those conversations they've never had before They haven't been they haven't been mentored before and People have actually looked at them. And so so. I really think it's this combination of Unlocking motivation but then also giving a pathway our training program when guys start day one. We print out this sheet. It's as it's the master. Plan everything you need to be. Awesome on one page and we show every competency the stages you need to go through and we tell them after orientation the pace with which you grow is completely up to you all like that. All of your raises and promotions are right here. We're transparent so basically we've given them a track and said run on this as fast as you want to And it's the guys who are They they can. They can hustle good with people. The street smart. I said you got those. If you've got those three things You will really excel. And then there are guys that don't and that's okay too. They're just not ready And some guys come in. They're just not ready to to work on that and they're not already a lot of people when they say when they say they're just not they're not built like that. There's always be working for someone else. I liked it. You said they're not ready. It gives them an opportunity to grow into that. I loved. i keep going love this. I hope they come back sometimes. We let people go. There's a someone we let go last week. He was crying and he said. I love queens. This i this place and We said you know what We're pointing out some things and the guy who let him go is also getting pretty emotional because he invested a lot in and said i hope you come back and so we let go of people sometimes. There's that in mind like work on this and then consider come back Because we a lot of pets lead. It's not the right time for them. They're not ready okay. I i'm going to bring up an opportunity. And i haven't heard a lot of people talk about just yet and you touched on some. You let someone go. They're not ready yet near using that terminology that way of thinking in now i want to pick your brain on. This one was the first time that you had to fire someone to let someone go clean. Yeah send general. Yeah the the very first location actually the most memorable one. It was my partners. Okay all right tackle. -cation yeah uncomfortable. Where you at that time to let them go it. It's a it's a hard conversation. Yeah you're there are two parts of me I'm a business guy. So we're we're teetered more than the average person to have difficult conversation okay. We've got to be done but then at the same time there's a part where like that's tough man. It's you know. I don't i don't wanna have it but but just realizing fit. It's not that it's not that you wrong. It's it's it's fit and and the big thing for us. They take more of approach. And i wanted to transform an industry right. Let life's like. They wanted a lifestyle business. I didn't wanna lifestyle. I went into business. Where i can really throw myself into. That's what that was my point. And i wanted to bring it up because it how you approach you you letting people go and firing people if you're trying to change the way. The game is looked at in that industry. You can't go about firing people or letting go people the previous people in the industry or the top ones. You have to do and more of a nurturing and and letting them know why they're not ready yet but here's what you can do in the meantime if you get yourself ready then i'm gonna keep that opportunity open for you if you keep that door up and a lot of people when they think they got let go from job or in their career. They can't come back. You have to keep that door open. That's that's how you're able to continue to keep your fingers on the pulse on what's needed in your communities rather than just you know what's needed in your business community and business or it needs to be together you need to have your finger on the pulse and knowing what's happening a loved us keep going to add to that guy who let him go actually gave him a couple of names of places that he should go considered a work because he was aware right. And and so there's that relationship You know some of the hardest layoffs. I i leave it open. you know. we're If you wanna talk about this and more when when you're you can calm down a little bit and wrap your wrap your head around it beach out to me. Let me know and Yeah it and so we try. We're not. we're not perfect chris. But but we're we try. Not no you. You're lot closer to than a lot of companies that are major major name companies. That don't know how to properly. I've been around some people that they would ask me to fire people and i would do it differently like i just like i actually learned. It's funny how i learned this. I was watching a movie in. Moneyball with brad pitt i. It was like two thousand eight two thousand ten ish. I don't around that timeframe. I love baseball but i was watching this movie and i watched him was a general manager for camera that the actual the oakland a.'s anyways but he walked in and i guess the person in his protege. He was training assistant. He was trying like fire. That means like you gotta go fire. You've gotta go tell him traded or tell them or whatever and he was like well. How would you do it. And he's like training jonah hill and how to iceland one mellon he all based on this and this this this and he was like they don't wanna hear that shit they they don't care like you just have to like listen. Here's the name of the person you need to contact your service. All he needed needed. You're good ballplayer but you gotta go. Yeah i try to train. And this is where i was kind of companies and corporations i was going in and i had to make a lot of those decisions behind the scenes. They didn't know that came from me. And i was what it was pulling the trigger but i would prep. Hr on how to deal with them and them for that next step so i didn't have so i would leverage. Hr so here's here's your. You weren't math. Let you go your vision. you know. Obviously what you've done here. We appreciate everything you've done for this company where we're trying to next leap in a different way of going about business you're just not aligned to the division overall. I'm not saying you can't come back one day. But as infrared your cer- your services are no longer needed. Here's a person for. Hr give him piece of paper number. Go talk to them and they would prep them on the next step to maybe pointing in the right direction. That way you don't have to. I don't have to train my staff not having an emotional conversation because once you have an emotional conversation about it. You're you're now making open for them to have that kind of conversation. That goes on forever. And i'm like all right. He's got gotta cut. Cut the head off the snake and let them go like am. I gonna you go up. I'm not gonna stab you to death in and watch you bleed chocolate. You hit often. You gotta go do what. You gotta do but anna. That's probably sounds really awful for those. Who are listening to this. Damn chris hardcore no it. It's all about community is all about trying to help them. And if you lead with that. I it's really going to take your business to the next level and i think that's where the team that rolls down through your staff not just on a manager level or an employee type level but that you're raising morale because if this morale is low you can't now focus back onto your customers again raising that everything if you look at our our Cool reviews and people give us positive reviews. What are they talking about. It's it's the people yup and if if you want happiness in good service to spillover customers it's gotta be in house to and and if you if you build that culture in house it'll trickle over into customer service our approach there's like no you're highly well-spoken highly educated person as well i think you have. Nba is in school chicago university of chicago. Okay got it. I read it somewhere. I couldn't remember the name of the school. I went and i put my pigeonhole myself real quick but the the reason why i'm bringing this up because you come from engineering to real estate gaining a lot of cafo gaining some a little bit of liquid right and allowed you to have the the finances to seize an opportunity when he saw an opportunity for engineering world and i want to go back to the engineering mindset just real quick and how. We look at things a little bit differently. Because i'm not to talk about personal things. We had something unfortunate happen. That's probably the worst thing ever in in the world. That would ever happen to a married person with in a brand new dad unfortunately lost her daughter. Mackenzie and now it's really difficult situation and we'll sprinkle this kind of lean into this as much as i can and try to be. Try not to get too personal with this. But there's a point that. I want to bring up when you were nine months into the hospital in your mom having i guess what forty years experience in the same hospital and you were in that hospital and you got to experience mackenzie. You're smiling for the first time in going in you know even though it's a really difficult time but there's also there's two sides to every coin right to be grateful for the good and bad right but there is something that happened i'm i think that is it electrostatic clean thank. We're new went through something really traumatic but you never went through that. If you didn't go through the situation but you're ever take something even more positive about him and he'd been implemented into your business can you. Can you expand its own. You're comfortable level of talking about this. But i wanted to touch on this because if you didn't have that type of mindset on on looking at things differently then you wouldn't have seen the opportunity even implement making it. I guess make it an easy for your own business when he saw an opportunity. Yeah mackenzie at thirteenth surgeries and hospital. Protocol was when she went to surgery. They would sterilize. The room and I saw than using equipment that i'd never seen before to to stabilize the room and just being curious person and engineer took pictures started asking the janitorial staff all this all these questions probably android and probably even hello everyone to that place very often in our yeah so no And by the time he's even finished. I'm already on google. Why finding out all all the background artist equipment at the at the moment that's happening. I actually didn't know exactly. What would i do that. I was just curious well Kobe hits and my mentor Asked me what can you do from a business perspective to do your part and to help the committee And immediately thought of Sterilizing equipment They weren't as popular back then as they are now us on airplanes all over the place before it was mostly just a nursing homes surgical rooms and then he also told me whatever it is. Don't try to monetize it. Don't try to monetize on a pandemic visor there for the community just doing. I don't wanna poo pooing businesses that started during the pandemic me. You know they. They they hold for us. We're caught. We thought if we can sterilize the insides of people's cars and make them feel confident to people like get in their cars and bring their family after they had some symptoms maybe You know that would be a great thing for us to to offer that to the community even if we can only prevent a handful of quotations by doing that like it's worth it so we we ordered these They are live at our sites We do them three days. A week and We're just going in a spring on people's cars who want it and it kills corona virus within sixty seconds to losses within three minutes and plenty of other Diseases as well viruses bacteria and thank you for going into detail on that because if you're one hundred percent correct. Tenure mentor is a is it a woman or a guy guy guy okay. I didn't say oh. Yeah a guy just because there's a lot. There's a lot of common entrepreneurs out there just i. I've learned more from like women mentors. I guess you would say as an entrepreneurship. I'd have in michigan. And i'm just i'm telling you. This decade is going to be the decade from an entrepreneurship. I'm telling you mark my words aren't my word leader khalid that emotional intelligent side of it. There they understand it more so you touched on something. Her mentor brought up. Hey if you don't try to charge don't try to monetize from this. Just try to see how you can implement this in the overall it all goes back to your customers and goes to your community. I it is what. I'm was jumping out to me. The most is how i can increase them and make them feel safe that hey even if you have symptoms in you did experience those you know being sick. We're going to create the environment for you to feel safe that hey our equipment and the people that we are here. Were conscious of that. I thought that was great. I thought that was phenomenal. Goodstuff in in a lot of it for entrepreneurs this minutes depending solving our own problems to the when. I i I had some Kobe did like symptoms. And i couldn't go to the hospital for two weeks. And when mackenzie was getting better and we were trying to bring her home. I didn't feel comfortable bringing her in our car. And you know. I didn't have a way of what what do i do. I do to make it safe for me to bring my home sick. Well these sprayers. And if i'm having this problem other people are too so you are not aware even if they're not aware of it that's knowledge is king right. I mean knowledge is the best we can. I mean they might be even like me. Being a father of me. Not being a father if i if i if someone else knew a little bit of information that i wasn't aware of and it was potentially going to save my life and my family's lives that's a big deal. Yeah yeah and in. We've had customers actually mentioned that like. Oh my gosh. I was sick. And i didn't know what to do. And thank you so much. My goodness we. We've won that customer over for life hundred percent and they're they're they're taught so it's not getting nothing out of it like they're going and telling them something different. You're doing something extra. You're you're now what you're doing now as you're you're creating the standard for other people in the community interviewing you as a person. Hey hey this guy you know. He's been through this. He's been to that but he took this from this type of unfortunate experience and learned it but you. That's the engineer to saad of you. And i it drives my family crazy and it drives even people that are around me. I'll say the most outrageous shit. I drug people because i'm not supposed to be doing. I'm not supposed to be thinking like this at a time. Like this. And i'm asking questions like why is this important. I'm like i don't know because i'm going nuts. We here because one of the no like i'm curious. My mind is google. I'm telling you man is like my best friend. Sometimes i might even uncomfortable conversations. I'm like why can't ask right now. Because i don't know them that well. This is my works. I see so many opportunities. Like i can't stop my mind from going so and with plenty of annoyed friends and family from the things i bring up here we go. Yeah like until restaurant. And i'll asking questions are how like who was this and especially like mom and pop places. I brick and mortar businesses. I ask a lot of questions. Even if i'm impressed i'm going to ask question after my odd. We can't take chris anywhere he's going to have a conversation with them for an hour. Then i'll get a business. I was actually in here in london and of course in here in london for those listeners. That art in london and they ever wanted to travel in london. If you love chicken wings don't come because there's only a couple of places you can get actually a real good chicken wing as different types right. So there's a food truck here and it's called orange buffalo and a founders are from england but they went to the us and it started off as a drug story. They were out in new york. There are drinking and they got the recipe of some chicken wings. Like the sort of food truck. And i went there and i was like wow you know. I don't drink so i dig a root beer. Only bad part is the root beer was from australia. And they don't know what they're doing over there so take that well so only bad thing a negative experience by ate chicken wing. And i was like i up to the food truck was like who who made these like. Where'd you get this recipe. 'cause it tastes like i'm in new york right. I love this. I like you have now. It's like do you need investors. I this is where my mind goes. Do you need investors. i will hook you up. I got you this. That comes with passion right because i was like. I can't get good chicken wings. I might as well make sure you say stick around in a marketplace or my own reasons absolutely. That's the engineer and businessman coming out and you can't you can't turn it off. Read just a part of who we are. I don't think it. I don't think that i'll ever be able to. I don't know. I'm trying to say i'm trying to turn it off because that's obviously was assisted me and i'm sure with you. The same of looking at things a little differently and cutting off some light years off my learning curve when it comes to business and adapting to the marketplace and adapting to the times and being a data change overall. There certain things that i'll pay a tissue. I'm my fingers on the pulse. But if i'm not in the business enough to be able to understand the dynamics and the moving parts then i can't reverse engineer it because there's too many things moving around the first place how with ever clean. What is your strategy on being able to expand where you are right now in the business world we are obviously trying to grow locations but what we're investing in is in our actual classroom. We're investing internally Inside so we're when i look at we're has businesses failed. Or where do they struggle to expand I think it's most in in your in your people you can you. Can you could brute force a single store. You just by just by force of personality to have the right kind of culture but if i can't replicate that in a different state because we've systematized in some way culture which sounds weird but if we can't systematize that then as soon as we go out of state We're we're gonna we're gonna denver. I want her. Yeah so we we. We've developing systems as much as we can to replicate People and culture So that we can see the other things are still a challenge but i think are more outsourcing. I can't outsource culture. I can outsource real estate development. Let's say that again sent to listeners. The here that is not what we say right is what they hear me. Take it up against party. You can't outsource culture and we can outsource real estate development You can outsource marketing. Even i but culture is. There's no one who can who can do that for you. You gotta do it yourself and doing it. Yourself takes time and effort personal. Feel to that to develop that culture because it's not something that just happens overnight. It takes sometimes years to develop that culture. You understanding why it's essential for you to expand in the marketplace or you expand in certain industries. How many state do you currently thinking about being in different regions. I mean is the goals for you when it comes to your outreach when it comes to your own personal brand without not personal brand but has in business brand So we have a five locations up and running chicago three. that will open later. This year and We we'd like to in my mind i we. We'd like to be five hundred locations. Some day and be be nationwide. I just think the need is great. i think there is a lot of opportunity and frankly with all their plenty of new car washes That are opening up here and there but customers frequently tells his non experience similar to ours so eager on. So how can you duplicate that without losing the personal touch with the culture. Do you think yeah that. And that's that's the challenge before us. We we try to embed our culture every opportunity. We have into our training Materials so we try to make sure that will for first of all. Most of our guys are not super good at School that's the accession. A beautiful part that. They're not because what they're going to really need in that type of situation. At growing a franchise building our own business. It comes from being. I guess having that emotional connection with people understanding what's happening but go loved us. Yeah so so. Our training we we we think about. How do you train someone who's smart street. Smart and they've they've they've good Issue but man they just don't they get sit down with the textbook. All of our training is done in relationship. Love it. so it's it's i. Do you watch i. Do you help you do i help you. Do i watch in the last step. Is you teach so a lot of situational training. Yes and it's you cannot progress by yourself. You have to do it right. There has to be another person there and and to me. That's one of the best ways you can Instill culture because i think culture is more caught than taught. Love it you you you can you can Read about how to change a flat tire. But what you miss in watching a youtube video of. That is the gusto with which someone did that. When it was raining and the attitude they have which is a thin can stay with you forever. Change about your life right so so for us. How how you know. How do we create a situation where you can catch culture and that's relationship right into tree right okay. I like that. Let me go back to something else you said and not to poke holes. I'm not poker. Holds in a in a bad way and put a halt e street smart. You touched on that twice. Before i got a chance of bring it and go back up and i love that latest conversation just naturally just went there because i wanted to touch on this real quick. You touched on street smart. I believe it of people have a little bit more of street smarts in that type of industry in that type of business model especially right now in the decade in an era of business were in right now. Because it's all about how you make someone feel rather than just info dropping or data dropping of something xyz. Anyone could hand your clientele a piece of paper at the beginning of this thomas. Okay what's fragrance. Would you like to have this. Is the program. This is the the cost you a member. She can come this. Anyone can hand something like that to you but if you have someone that had a lot of street smarts than unions using their emotional intelligence to really develop a relationship and explaining why this is what this is the process. Here's what we're going to do in anything. Any questions comments concerns. You might have during your experience. I wanted bring it up to me on how we can improve. Or how can we reach more customers. Just like you so such on that street smart. Why that's so important for you to be conscious of the people that you do have aboard yourself love this. We're we're looking for a people not that we can just program with information people to exercise so we we do have this curriculum but we want people to exercise their own native genius and take take their heaven ability to critically think and apply our principles and culture in in different situations. So yes you know how to. You know how to pitch at you know word for word all the content in this sale script. But exactly what you're saying. Then what do you do with that and you can you talk to customer And that that is really what we're looking for in our guys. Now that street smarts can be applied in different ways Our guys so we have. We have three different tracks. This fairly new that we're developing We have a sales genius with technical genius in a management genius. I like them guys. Yeah we have. We have some guys who really good in sales context over the guys who Not so good know in sales context but you put a wrench in their hand. No my goodness all of a sudden you feel like this guy's really smart in the failed you you felt like he was not so smart but so so. We're trying to identify that. It is important that somebody has that for this role. Because if they don't have that here they should be somewhere else applying. Whatever it is that they have yet is understanding. You had to understand your staff and where people are good at and whether or not getting it sounds like you're you're really starting to identify that in shitting and getting start pulling on those threats to really sort of didn't find some areas of opportunity. I think with your engineering mine. I think you're gonna explode with this just understanding that within your own staff you touched on where this is. Why train especially when it comes to sail the people all your award-winning salesman. How did you get to you know education sales. And how did you do well. I really didn't sell pitch. You mentioned pitch a couple times pitch if you learn how to sell the right way when you hear customers status to you. What's the next step. what are the. How do i go about getting this. Or how do i do this. That's when you got him already wrapped and you don't have to pitch them. You should never try to pitch anyone you just say from based on what you just you brought your car here and you have your alloy wheels and you have chrome we have this and you trying to get them in just to kind of if i was the guy. I was based on the way that i'm looking or car and what you're trying to get from his car. Wash as endure ability of you coming back next week or whatever. Here's what i would recommend from this package. And they will go. You're right because you're to genius and you're the expert in this area but you have to develop that credibility and you using your street smarts emotional intelligence to know. Wanna turn it on a turn off for them to give off the impression to them. I've been here before. I knew what kind of car that is. I know what you need. What you're trying to accomplish in your first date i get it. Let's make sure the backseats really cleaning the car fragrance has. What's here's what i recommend. And they're going to go with that recommendation. But if you hand them a piece of paper thomas though i don't know maybe they don't wanna pick the most expensive ones. They don't see the value though. I don't wanna pick the middle one. I'll pick this one just because there's a little bit more a little bit more than the normal one. I'll do this one. And in in this in this industry The bar is so low for providing education recommendation. That like all we know of is clear. Quote triple foam loud lombardi carnival wax ray next Shield soup like nobody knows what anything means like. I don't know that. Yeah and we've all heard so how gimmicky is at that guys. Like you and me and a lot of listeners. We're sharp people who know how to operate a pocket computer but we don't know what any of these car wash terms need it. It's it's been a terrible way to sell and really we're not educating people stuff is not that hard to understand the we don't use any of those terms in our car wash you. My biggest pet peeve is about car washes okay. You have you make it look a certain way and everything else right. They don't tell you. And i would tell these i would tell people this. Listen do not roll your windows down next hour. Prelate note right. Yes they should. We should have you know. Just make sure the people understand. Because there's a what's going to happen is this. They're gonna drive run off the lot and they're gonna roll down. The window is messed up your whole window for next a whole car. Wash the whole. I don't know to two weeks because you're never gonna get back. That stain does not go away. That you know. I'm stealing that. So i just wrote it down because we don't tell that to people and we should have the and even myself right being in the space. I make that mistake right. And good at the drive through or whatever and i pull it out and oh my goodness and I love it so thank you for that. You come and that's just for my experience of years of doing it. You know before. I graduated high school because it was kind of a seasonal thing when i would go work at a car. Wash like weekends and and whatnot. Because there's nothing worse than having your car immaculate to way it needs to feel way you know whatever and you rolled on a window by accident and you're like And you can't. It's it does something to your window because it's all that water is inside of the door or inside of the track. It messes you up. What what. I will say slightly different about our model. Why some of our members might not feel that way as much because they are on A subscription unlimited plan. Okay me taking one car wash and drawing it out and maximizing that for long as they can the thing so are you know are people are coming in to get the car washed even during the reign sometimes on a cloudy day when when they know the things have changed things have changed in like. I don't even how old am i. What thirty bucks term. Forty thirty nine. So i mean i was wet fifteen so god knows how long right so what you do. The math guy so twenty five years ago. If i haven't figured it out by then so i'm sure things have evolved with windows and enrolling down things without a nice touch. It still an issue. It's still. I wrote it down a nice little little end of it and like hey by the way what did i tell you. The beginning of it. Don't roll your windows down for the next like out. I love it or they do the windows and they leave these big streak somewhere like have a vivid memory. When i was a kid my mom my dad would wash a car. And i would be back in you touch the windows. You might as well just like. I don't know like my father with a knife or starting. I mean i've gotten yelled at more than anything else and touching windows. My dad told me is when you finally get a car or you know. whatever. I'm just i'm gonna tell your children when you have children touched make sure you're touching a windows. It new putting this on that so chris. How long does that last four. But that that attitude of your dad wanting you not to touch anything in the showroom condition frederick productive prep like. They're always like well. Well your was. Your dad always like that or after several with car. Were those rules all the time. I was used when a car the across touching a window. That's awesome you can point outside and not touched a window. Why are you touching the window. I mean what is the point of touch. I can go on a whole pitch. I can go to a whole conversation about the window. 'cause i've heard it like what's the whole point of view touching a window. I can't look out the. Hey hey dad look over there. You're touching a window. What is the point of you touching a window or when it rains i'll be kid like taking my finger and going down the reindeer stupid stupid game but my i'll get yelled at the funniest things in a world I guess it's the only thing that you're gonna yell at me about. I guess i'm gonna. I'm gonna get kid but i mean i'd be clinton is of about someone also by what's in her car and what's not in their cars. Well you really do. I think you get in and you you see You can actually imagine how they're Day to day is how the kind of live right just by. What's the car. And what's not and how they keep it. And based on how their car is you might be able to guess how they're homers yup hundred percent hundred percent hundred percent and you don't think i'll put you don't think that men don't pay attention to women's cars. I know when i was dating at one point. And now we're getting someone's karma like. Whoa you live like this. Yeah Don't think we're going to get past the second date you know like i don't think so. Don't this is what the house gonna look inside man. I'm gonna spend a lot of money on cleaners. that's for sure. Don't be but you're using your emotional people listening. Might man chris awful. Like when you use your. You're very tactful. Firing skills that one hundred hundred percent. I'm gonna doubt to the marketplace. Sure i'm like have you thought about in like have you been approached. I'm sure you have with from some investors looking to try to make you expand faster. Because i get this a lot in entrepreneurship when even myself included when i'm building something out in other. They look at that as an opportunity. Investing opportunity for them. What is your thought process on may be potentially having an investor come in. Are you turn off on that or maybe just. Are you open to something like that. So we do have investors right now. okay One of the nice things at least so far has been just because this isn't my first rodeo. I've been able to be very picky about our investors and make sure our investors are values and vision aligned not just on the business model but so i look for track record of investors who've been highly philanthropic and if you've given money towards causes you believe in not that we are charity but that tells me you care about vision of what we're trying to do socially as well so for those who are in south carolina right now and you're listening to this new. See one of these kind of companies pop up car wash around. Your area might have been a good indication them like hey thomas. I'm going to invest in these. Bring it down to charleston. When i go to visit carolina when i go back home to visit then i at least i have someone who can go to a car. Wash 'cause that was one of the things that i wanted to do for myself. Was the first car wash. I ever went to also buy it out. But it's like there's nothing in it. It's like a rundown like don't even is probably crackheads. Living in their Maybe i can just tear it down for myself. I told my first job but this thing. But there's nothing there so Might be an opportunity so for the most under that we covered a lot. And i know this probably conversation for those who are listening to this and i appreciate every single last one of you. Make sure you're submitting your feedback in. And i would love to have you on as a q. And a. i've been neglecting lately. Just because of what i've been building with windex videos on me getting that autograph and making sure we're doing beta testing What do you have currently going on right like right now for maybe our listeners. To find more about your business is what you're doing you personally i. How would you kind of like frame that. And kinda might maybe just explain that to the listeners on maybe pointing in the right direction so that i know you don't get lost on google. Yeah so We're is it mainly membership model We have a baby frame it this this way. They're kind of three. If you're if you're listening there might be sort of three points of interest. One is if you're interested in in what we're doing As a consumer we have Were mainly a membership model. We're trying to do is have drivers. Imagine their car always clean. And no no. More of the car mostly being dirty. You get a car wash times a year and just try to stretch it out. It's just it's just changed the whole the whole mo. Just have your car always clean. And so we have thousands of members who find value in that we have an online special refers. Month is a buck and you get to experience that unlimited washes per dollar and You can you can just take what that's like. The chicago area nuts. I mean like that's helluva value going. Yeah we we just want people to taste what that experience like. Because once i started tasting a car that was always shining and just did not need to worry about You know keeping the car clean and and making it convenient for someone to do that. Like in and out within three minutes at our location Second would be if you're listening to this and you're interested more From a career opportunity Go you can go online to everclean. Cw dot com And you can click on careers. You'll learn a little bit about our growth trajectory and what you can expect. You can apply to particular location right there and Thirty if you're listening and you happen to be an investor and you feel like this is something i believe in both business model and the social mission you can also reach out to us Through our website and we will be raising expansion round the capital in the spring So those are free ways that you can kind of connect with us. I like the last one especially. Because maybe i could. You could take. This is fine. If you think is a good idea like you know how you have a lot of companies that maybe don't have the education and don't have the training that you guys have obviously expanding on it and change in a way that people are looking at those like as personal development and in really helping your pc you can probably end up getting investors and buying out certain companies that you're like i guess that's like a sister company underneath your umbrella where he really expanding and that might be a huge area opportunity on the all the small things but you probably already a thought of this. I can't stop my mind my mind. I love that you go there. So yeah we to us ever clean is h human resources. Company just happened to wash hearts mother cars now and but are geniuses not in the car washing segment to us it can be applied anywhere loving and And we have. We have pokes to bring out there as well. He can do it in so many things you can do it dry cleaning. You can do anything. We're cleaning this. Yeah absolutely. I mean our guys. We have very few people who work here who are actually specifically interested in car washing. They love the company right. they'll do call exchanging a game. That's how you're changing the game. You're you're they're not just a trying to wash cars right. They're learning how to transform themselves into something special. You very beginning of this. You mentioned identifying their talent and sometimes they're not able to can can see what their what their true potential you know is you're pulling that's worth best mentors and that comes from your upbringing as well and people being around you being onto lidge. You don't you when you look at an opportunity or look at individual. You don't look at them where they currently are. I don't either. I look on who they could be one day. And and i think when people think about careers a lot of time there's too much focus on the industry and they decide where to go based on industry. I actually think minority of people are are really have been obsession or passion with one specific industry. I think most people are pretty open to working at the right place in the right type of role in. That could be most of our guys. I love it. I love that I four months. I want to say thank you again for coming on the show by beyond beyond me on a lot of different areas of opportunity before i even thought about hey. He would be phenomenal guest. But i hope the listeners really caught onto the method behind. Thomas's madness it's just at because there's not a lot of I guess you'd say entrepreneurs that do have that personal touch to them and being adaptable to change and making the proper adjustments. They just say they are and their staff doesn't really reflect the result so i love it. Well thank you kristin and it and it A probably should say at the same time that there are things that are super messy about that And striving for a social mission. And being so relational in what we do But to me it's worth it. It's it's worth that. If i'm gonna labor and toil in something i want it to be something i One of the challenges. I give to the guys Is when you can integrate who you are with what you do toward something you believe in side the people you love. You'll probably find some happiness there. Wow that's that's what we're good. You should put that on t shirt. We haven't done it. That's powerful. Because i feel that i mean you have to be aligned to those values core values. You're saying what that truly means and you will find happiness if you're going about your aided day-to-day operations or just living your life. You know as as a whole and trying to put all those pieces of a puzzle together. Great advice ban. I appreciate coming on again much chris. You're welcome. You're welcome and god bless you your family your wife Especially what you've been through. And i know that we'll always be in contact from brief conversations that we've had but not just k- yeah my and not been in that great or at long like as an elite known each other for years but i know this this relationship. I'm looking for to build on this relationship for a lifetime in your great person. Likewise chris really really looking forward to what's ahead. Yeah absolutely guys. you'll be well be safety. You hope you enjoyed today's phenomenal information. Info dump pretty much on customer service so many areas of opportunity for you guys to like really take something and a ball it up and catch lightning in a bottle but other than that guys. You'll be well be saved me you piece out. You'll take care thank you again thomas. Thank you chris off.

mr kim chris thomas kim Mr thomas kim nba vegas london chicago thomas kaba charleston mike jackson mackenzie zappa caterpillar Nato
Seeing the Lighthizer: China trade talks

The Economist: The Intelligence

19:57 min | 2 years ago

Seeing the Lighthizer: China trade talks

"Hello. And welcome to the intelligence on communist radio. I'm your host. Jason Palmer every weekday. We provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world. This week apple entered the entertainment business saying it would start making its own films and TV shows. That's just the latest media move as internet providers device makers and movie studios. Join forces and expand offerings big companies are trying to get bigger vying for your entertainment, dollar smaller ones aren't going to survive. And you might have noticed that Kim Jong UN North Korea's leader seems a little more modern a little more approachable perhaps during his media appearances. Don't be fooled though. The propaganda message is the same as it ever was. First up though. Not so long ago. President Donald Trump thought this might be the week he'd see grand trade pact with China instead negotiations to ease the economic war between the countries are dragging perilously on American Goshi eaters, led by US Trade Representative Robert lighthizer will arrive in Beijing tomorrow for another round of talks Chinese delegation led by vice premier new visit American next week with the aim of closing a deal by late April. But the details it seems are proving tricky to hammer out among the concerns of Mr. Trump the question of whether China would honour any agreement that's made because we have to make sure that if we do the deal with China that China lives by the deal with a big gap. Still between them the talks could easily break down with political consequences for both sides. These are important because the end of the day the relationship between the US and China reconnect diplomatically is the. The essential link in the world calling me it really breaks down would be incredibly traumatic and breezing for economic growth everywhere. Patrick fouls. Business affairs editor at the economist overseeing, all our business and finance coverage. The talks have been rumbling on for weeks now. So whether or not this latest iteration is really the crunch point when they attempt to have an agreement is unclear but even though the process seems quite interminable the moment, it is still really quite critical will happen interminable might be exactly the word. Why are they dragging on so much with you? Go back to February actually seemed quite lightly. That'd be a kind of short shop deal signed. There was talk of president Xi going to mar-a-lago to have some celebrate to Redon with Donald Trump as the trade relationship between the two superpowers was all stitched up. Rectified, I think will happen is the underlying problems are actually just much harder to solve and the the sort of three buckets one is the simple one, which is can China by more stuff. The America makes to shrink the trade deficit, which is will President Trump cares about the second one is more complex, which is intellectual property rights. The role of the government in China and distorting markets on the last one is arguably the hottest of all which is how can America be sure that China will comply with whatever agreement is reached. And if you take those three sets of issues, I think probably why the talks have been delayed is because the last two are actually really pretty difficult to resolve. So any what's actually on the table this week and next what what elements of deal have already been struck. Everything's still to play for. Well, I think one of the things we've heard frequently is that everything's still to play for partly because President Trump himself as rather unpredictable person to be negotiating with all bit through his deputies. So you have the Treasury Secretary Mnuchin the and also the Trade Representative Robert lighthizer, both of whom have reputations being sold in the case of Mr. lousy all give full miserable in these negotiations. And yet the Chinese know that ultimately the deciding. Factor could be a quite impulsive presidential decision, which makes it difficult. What we do know. According to press reports in the Wall Street Journal, for example, is that may be text circulating on some of this stuff. So the negotiations have got to the point where specific clauses on language or being agreed. But the air of unpredictability that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed seems to hang over the talks and on means, really quite halt. So there is still a risk than they could collapse altogether. Well, one of the most interesting elements, whether the dynamic has changed so in February China's economy was reeling. The financial markets had fallen. There was a sense of people worried about recession and showing Paul because of trade. And then similarly President Trump was probably more embattled there was a sense. He was under pressure domestically and maybe needed a big win. Now if you roll forward to today China's Don a stimulus package. Edge to its economy. The markets are up the mood is a bit more optimistic which might take the pressure off president Xi, and he may feel that actually he's in a strong position. Meanwhile, for President Trump, you have the mullahs report, which probably changes is sort of momentum domestically. And may mean that actually thinks I don't need a win right now. And maybe all keep this in my pocket. Keep the talks for much longer and then trying to night's victory near the election. So the domestic agendas economically and politically for both leaders complicate things as well and make even murkier trying to work when these ongoing talks actually come to a resolution, we've been going back and forth. We've talked on this show multiple times about these trade talks. Do you have a sense for at the moment who who holds the cards? I would think president's Trump's position is stronger. I think his domestic political. Situation as improved as a result of the Miller report. There is a lot of support bipartisan and from the US business community the being tough with China, an alternate the importance of China to the US economy is lower than the importance of the US economy to China, which means that it is not a balanced threat. China has probably has more to lose. I think for those reasons the Americans will be able to push push hog in over the next few weeks. Patrick. Thanks very much for coming in. Thank you. What show did you watch last night? And how and where will you be getting your entertainment in ten years time? In the last few years, the media landscape has changed dramatically, especially in the US giddy up Stein is our media editor people are watching just a lot less traditional television. What we call linear television, where you know, you're a show on the certain our to certain time. And of course, they're using net flicks. But increasingly they are also watching other television on demand, whether it's via Hulu Amazon prime video or whether it's watching something that is on one of their cable television services, but on demand. So they've changed their viewing habits. And so the big media companies have seen this the big telecommunications companies have seen this and what they've done is started to buy each other up and try to marry content and distribution to take on Netflix. See AT and T buying Time Warner Disney buying much FOX in deals that combined worth almost two hundred billion dollars. And you also have Comcast America's largest provider of broadband. Vying sky over in the UK, and that is also partly a play to take on television and a different way. Amid this upheaval in the business model of entertainment apple has made its own announcement, a new service unlike anything that's been done before. Apple TV. Apple had a big event on Monday in Cupertino where people expected that they would see apple really announce a lot of details about its new streaming video service. Instead, we got just a glimpse of the reason people were expecting apple to make a big splash is that there's a race right now to provide direct consumer video services in America and also internationally because Netflixing established such a big lead in both places. Got like sixty million subscribers and the US almost eighty million outside the US and growing quickly internationally and the other folks realize that this is where consumers are going. And so apple is a formidable potential threat in this space because they've got, you know, nine hundred million iphones around the world one point four billion IOS devices. And so that's a big installed base of devices that you can immediately put products and services out to it does seem like kind of a mix of companies that you name there. We have the. To make devices. We have the kind that run the internet pipes, and the kind that make movies and television shows is the push here for each one of them to try to become all of those things. Each of these companies has a different strategy different approach to try and capture the market in streaming video. And that's why I think probably more than one or two concede. You got Netflix. They've got a huge lead. A really don't think anyone's going to challenge them, despite the fact that they're losing access to the films that these other companies make themselves, but I think they're going to survive. And then you're gonna have folks like Disney, which has just a ton of world famous popular movie franchises. You've got the marvel cinematic universe Star Wars Pixar films frozen. I mean, it's just an incredible amount of high quality intellectual property that is unrivalled. So I think they will do. Well, then you have eighteen t which I think will take a slightly different approach. They own some the pipes in this case, really the most important one is their wireless national coverage in the US and. World where you have five G, basically broadband like speeds over wireless, you can imagine their content like HBO being bundled with a wireless absorption and dust retaining wireless customers. So that's their strategy. Apple has its nine hundred million iphones around the world that can instantly be feeding whatever product and service they want to. So each of these companies has a slightly different approach. And I think each of them has a chance to still be around ten to fifteen years, especially if each of them has some stable of highly desirable content. That's right. This is why people worry a little bit about Netflix because they created big globally famous content kind of franchises. But people kind of wonder do they have enough and this, of course, why net flicks is spending massive amounts of money far more than anybody else's spending right now on TV this year. They'll probably spend about fifteen billion dollars to succeed at a global level without having marvel films or Star Wars, you gotta have a really high. High volume of content. You're describing a situation where it seems as if content is still king, but these are different kinds of companies pursuing different business models to get to begin of content. Which do you think looks most promising in that longer run? I think it's really king in this era is the direct customer relationship, which is sort of a partial marriage of continent distribution, not necessarily owning the pipes. But owning that direct connection to the consumer. Netflix has that AT and T has that because they already have a bunch of customers of wireless and via their satellite TV directtv. Apple has that with its devices around the world. Comcast has that was sky Disney by comparison essentially starting at zero so customer acquisition will be their biggest challenge. And that's why it is important that they have these must have famous movie franchises. And so we've only been speaking about a real handful of companies you reckon in the long run. It's not winner takes all some sort of positive feedback thing where all of the small players now will just disappear I think it will be real. Challenge for any small player to succeed. You'll have a few of these big companies making a huge amount of content and consumers will increasingly winnow down their choices of what they'll buy because each of these services will cost money ten fifteen dollars a month and it adds up. So they'll be dropping pay-tv. You'll be an acceleration in what we call cord cutting in America where people drop their expensive bundles it'll be a real struggle for any sort of small direct consumer service that doesn't have the heft of a really big conglomerate by them, and what you'll see is the bigger companies gobbling up some of the smaller ones, some of the smaller TV networks, either just going out of business entirely or seeking mergers to survive. It seems like the big cable companies used to try to gather together as many channels as they possibly could to make the best offer they possibly could to use. You would pay your ex dollars a month and stick with them instead of a rival or pay more for your monthly subscription. And so on. Aggregating? Right. And it now seems like they're all these tech companies in two degrees. Still these cable companies still aggregating is this just a more tech lead. Kind of more wireless version of exactly what we saw with the cable companies. You could absolutely see things going in that direction where we'll have a new sort of bundle aggregating these different direct consumer services at some point down the road. We're not quite there yet. But you know, they're going to have to avoid repeating the mistakes of the cable companies with pay TV in America, which was just to keep adding channels which made money for the companies who had TV networks and it made money for the cable companies, but it became so costly for the consumers that it became easy to disrupt for a new player like net flicks and for Amazon prime video. And now these new direct consumer services where the companies are going to be disrupting themselves to sell directly to consumers Gotti. Thanks very much for your time. It was good to be with you. Hey, my own don't Jillian not today. North Korea's propaganda event of the year has had a makeover hundred on two team in there. What he means on the New Year's address from supreme leader Kim Jong Hoon felt like the propaganda had taken a more relaxed tone this time around. It's the one time in the kindle on dresses, the nation conventionally comparison, the American such the union Leinna shipper is our Seoul bureau chief she's been following the media and the message in North Korea previous he used to stand behind this podium. It was like who's in some big hole the flags behind what you expect from a nominally this communist nation, and this he was sitting on a library. Big armchair, wearing a western sausage and tie, which she doesn't usually do that only. He's an sort of tripe mile SU and the bookshelves behind him completely different setting from what he's usually done. Lina that sounds like a pretty significant shift in in propaganda tone. What we're state media like before the same old Stalinist stuff as his father used to put out a longtime was very similar to the classic diatribes against evil American appearance. The classic North Korean propaganda him. Awesome. Inspecting factory inspecting Afam one of my favorites from last year, actually, because they had a they had a big emphasis on economic issues was him pointing potatoes sitting on massive piles of possessors surrounded by his offices, much almost like sort of terrible indie band cover for late eighties manned. So what changed why did Mr Kim stop pointing at potatoes his just done different things. So this different propaganda materials work with he's been on all these visits abroad. So there's more picture material for the propaganda, and what they seem to have decided to do is to present. Him in a way. That's a lot more. Plan to the world presenting slightly more modern image in the western dress during the new year. Dress him standing on top of marina bay sands on Singaple, smiling, people waving people having skyline mind, and that sort of thing it sounds like the aesthetic has changed. But do you think anything has is there anything wider to interpret here? Or is this just a slightly more westernized form propaganda? Kaffa l- pertain what's gang on? So the goal of North Korean propaganda. Such hasn't changed as supposed to show people. The the leaders working tirelessly for the good of the country in everything. He does great. That message doesn't change. It's been most doubt costs on that tool. One of the things that's changed since last is that most Koreans now here a lot more and more quickly about his visits abroad. So if you look at the first time he went to see Xi Jinping in Beijing last March people in North Korea. No about that until he come back. And when he went to last month to meet on from Vietnam war. They really rolled out the red carpet those wellness. Breathless rolling coverage of daily updates those a big splash on his red-carpet. Welcome in Vietnam. And that little shows a much greater confidence, the usual North Korean position has been mass. Apparently about provoke leaves the country as what might happen if he leaves the country who knows what might happen abroad minutes might try to assassinate him. Somebody else might sauce revolution ahead that that sort of thing was a big deal. And that doesn't seem to be quite so much of a worry as used to be. So being careful to avoid over interpreting. Then why do you think Mr Kim is bothering with this? So one of the things changed and North Korea the past few years as much more foreign information, and for me have trickled into the country, even the Kim Jong and his trying to crack down on this increasing number of people in North Korea have access to things like Korean TV drama zal western films, unclear exactly how much, but there's a there's a clear sense that much will familiar with the cels of media that xix than they were maybe ten or twenty years ago. So one thing this whole propaganda style. Chain might be. Trying to do is to package. The same message in a way that it will be appealing too much wildly audience. So clearly, there's a sense he's he's an internationally respected character because he can adopt the same sort of style as the people who enter nationally respected. Layup. Thanks very much. Thanks. That's all for this episode of the intelligence, you subscribe to the economist at economists dot com slash radio offer, twelve issues for twelve dollars or twelve pounds. See you back here tomorrow.

China apple US President Donald Trump Netflix America North Korea president Kim Jong UN Patrick Mr Kim Beijing editor Robert lighthizer Jason Palmer Representative AT
BEC attack pulls millions from car parts company. Wikipedia DDoS. NERC and FERC on grid hacking. Trolling Pyongyang. Mike Hammer goes to the DMV.

The CyberWire

15:55 min | 1 year ago

BEC attack pulls millions from car parts company. Wikipedia DDoS. NERC and FERC on grid hacking. Trolling Pyongyang. Mike Hammer goes to the DMV.

"Hey everybody Dave here with a quick reminder that if you enjoy our podcasts there are a number of ways you can help support us you can't of course contribute directly via our the Patriots page and we thank all of you who continue to do that. You can let our sponsors no you heard about them on the cyber wire which helps them know they're getting good value from their ads and you can help spread the word to your friends and co-workers to introduce them to the cyber wire and share that it's something you consider a valuable part of your day we do appreciate all of the support and here's today's show a big email scam extracts more than thirty seven million dollars from a major automotive parts supplier supplier wikipedia suffers diaz attack in Europe and the Middle East Nurk and Burke get to work through may really be bill bug and that's attribution not Kamala Devi was. US Cyber Command trolling North Korea on the DPRK's National Day and what does the Department of motor vehicles do with all the data they collect on drivers drivers in some US states. It seems they sell it to private is. It's time to take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. Recorded future record futures the Real Time Threat Intelligence Company whose patented technology continuously analyzes the entire web developing cyber intelligence that gives analysts unmatched insight into emerging threats at the cyber wire we subscribe to and profit from recorded waited futures cyber daily as anyone in the industry will tell you when analytical talent is scarce as it is today every enterprise owes it to itself to look into any technology that makes your security teams more productive and your intelligence more comprehensive and timely because that's what you want actionable intelligence sign up for the cyber daily the email and every day you'll receive the top trending indicators recorded future captures crossing the web cyber news targeted industries threat actors exploited vulnerabilities malware unsuspicious. Ip addresses subscribed today in stay a step or two ahead of the threat go to recorded future dot com slash cyber wire to subscribe for free threat intelligence intelligence updates. That's recorded future dot com slash cyber wire and we thank recorded future for sponsoring our show funding for this cyber wire podcast is made possible in part by bug crowd connecting organizations with the top security researchers pen testers and white hat hackers. Akers in the world to identify ten times more vulnerabilities than scanners or traditional pen tests learn more about how their award winning platform provides actionable insights like remediation the advice to help fix faster while methodology driven assessments ensure compliance needs are met at bug crowd dot com from cyber wire studios studios at data tribe. I'm Dave Vitner with your cyber wire summary for Monday September ninth twenty nineteen at the end of last week Toyota Sukkot Corporation and automobile component manufacturer and a member of the Toyota Group disclosed that a European subsidiary lost more than thirty seven million dollars allers when it fell for a business email compromise attack the incident itself took place on August fourteenth Toyota Bush Aku has said in its disclosure that the loss occurred when the company followed quote fraudulent payment directions from militias third party end quote the loss was a heavy one and it highlights the risk of business email email compromise even to well established companies that can be expected to have sound procedures in place little more than these bare facts are known at this time. Toyota Bush Aku says it's inhibited from saying more because of its participation in the ongoing police investigations it does say it's working to recover the funds its subsidiary lost and asks for everyone's understanding. Its decision not to offer more information. At this time also over the weekend end wikipedia sustained a cyber attack that took it offline and several countries computing caused the outage the result of a large distributed denial of service attack affecting affecting Europe and the Middle East the wicked media foundation said Saturday that bad faith actors of the sort it tends to attract where responsible wikipedia is working to restore normal operations the foundation declined in its post to speculate about attribution the North American Electric Reliability Corporation Russian Newark an industry group has released a report on the March Fifth Twenty nineteen incident that affected the US power grid according to Ian E. News this this cyberattack generated the first formal report of a cyber incident from the utilities to the Department of Energy Nurse Report of lessons learned downplays the severity already of the attack as affecting a low impact control center and it cites basic lapse in Cyber Hygiene namely failure to patch a firewall as the enabling enabling 'cause nurk recommends that utilities follow a set of familiar best practices patch management network segmentation network monitoring and so John Coincidentally or not the Wall Street Journal observes that the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Firkh a US government regulatory body is considering wondering revising its rules to include public identification of electric utilities that failed to follow rules designed to ensure the grids physical and cybersecurity cyber scoop reports that semantic thinks a recently discovered Chinese government hacking group three P- may actually be another manifestation of the long active Bill Bug or Lotus blossom unit th rip like Lotus Blossom has concentrated on military organizations. It's also particularly interested did in satellite communications media and education targets. The geographical focus has been Southeast Asia. What is trolling. It's the word with a complicated history. It's root meaning is a technique of fishing from a slow moving boat often with multiple hooks it came to be used in the nineteen nineties as a description of certain forms of online behavior designed to elicit a response from people looking at the Internet soon people who trolled that is the people who tried to engage others with distracting often off topics posts or comments came to be known as trolls because trolling sounded like something mythical. We'll Scandinavian beings might do maybe from beneath a bridge so would trolling count as a kind of information operation well shore why not at US Cyber Command seems to have been trolling Pyongyang by releasing samples of DPRK malware on North Korea's national holiday axios thinks so anyway September ninth which is today on the Baltimore side of the International Dateline but yesterday on the Non Jew side is the day of the foundation of of the republic. It's a big day in the DPRK like the fourth of July in the United States only with more flag teams and rhythmic applause than fireworks and grilled hot dogs. We should note that the North Korean government has been telling the rest of the world that contrary to the slanders being mouthed by the Yankee puppets on the UN Security Council. They don't hack stuff or rob banks or Jackpot. ATM's or any of that stuff at any rate between midnight and one in the morning yesterday Cyber Command Dan released some Hidden Cobra Code for the benefit of researchers axios. Ask them if the timing was deliberate if they were messing with Mr Kim's head cyber the command said in effect no comment quote we do not discuss details about the malware samples in C. N. F. Team Posts and quote is how they're a public affairs. Representative put it in a statement that doesn't even amount to a non denial denial as one tweeter observed. It's old stuff and at this point on this day cyber command is just being mean on the other hand couldn't happen to a Nicer Guy Right Mr Kim and finally finally what do departments of motor vehicles do with all that information they collect about drivers in the US and elsewhere driver's licenses can amount to a de facto national identification system and the DMV asks a lot of questions about you a recent visit by one of our people to the DMV on the north side of Baltimore this weekend required birth certificates marriage licenses W to tax forms a recent credit card statement and a recent utility bill which is quite a grab bag up p I so so what do they do with all that stuff. Make sure you're you of course for one thing but according to an investigation published by vice a lot of state. DMV's are selling doing the data to third parties for some serious dough enriching the state coffers to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. WHO's buying some of the purchasers strike drag vice has more or less legit like towing outfits and insurance companies others however seem as vice puts it more nefarious notably private investigators gators and unlike Philip Marlowe. These shoes are happy to do. Divorce work several of the DMV's told reporters that they drew the line at selling the photos does on the licenses. We've got that going for us. Guests and now a word from our sponsor observe it the greatest threat to businesses. Today isn't the outsider trying to get in. It's the people you trust the ones who already have the keys. He's your employees. Contractors and privileged users sixty percent of online attacks are carried out by insiders the stop these insider threats who need to see what users are doing before an incident occurs observant enable security teams to detect risky user activity investigate incidents in minutes and effectively respond respond with observant. You know the whole story. Get your free trial at observant dot com slash cyber wire. That's observe. The letter is the letter T. dot com forward slash cyber wire and we thank observe it for sponsoring our show and joining me once again is Joe Kerrigan. He's from the Johns Hopkins University Adversity Information Security Institute also my co host on the hacking humans podcast Joe Great to have you back hi. Dave <hes> got an interesting story <hes> from the verge and this is about got an update that Google made to g mail for IOS users right what's going on here so what they've done a finally given <hes> Djamil users on IOS the option of blocking images from being loaded when you open an email K. is this some you're an android us. Something you could have already had that capability ability over on planet android. It would seem so okay until the story came across. I didn't <hes> didn't change the settings <hes> but I was able go in and quickly change the settings for all my accounts now. It's account per account basis so the setting is attached the account not your g mail client general. I say take like five G. Mail accounts on my phone right what was interesting is in the article. It says that <hes> Ios for g mail users will now let that you do it but if you use G. Suite you cannot block images from loading right so the corporate users corporate users cannot can't do it can't do it but corporate users can do it on. I android because <hes> I have a corporate email account from G. Suite on my phone. I was able to to change the setting for loading images on loading the email. Now let's review here ear. What's the significance of being able to turn off loading images okay so there's actually a a privacy insecurity risk with this somebody can attach or put in in bed in the html of an email <hes> because now h. for years now for decades now e mail has been using html. I can create a unique file name for every email I send out and have that file loaded. When someone opens the email and the html engine of either the email client or the web page <hes> notices that there is a link for an image it goes and it requests the the image but because it requested an image with a unique name I know who has open that email when they opened the email and actually know where they are so this is the whole tracking tracking pixels tracking things right so very small white image that you'll never see an island? I opened an email in my email client. This tracking Pixel gets summoned right and you know that I've opened the email correct right now. I actually have a plug in for <music> chrome that I use that blocks tracking pixels. It's called ugly email arena hugli email and <hes> one of the things I like about it is that it puts. It's up a little icon next to messages that contain tracking pixels so it knows before you open it correct correct and one of the things Xilai about this. Is that <hes> it just. lets me know who's trying to track me. That's good information to have. I think it is it is and it's very interesting. Yeah I mean obviously you know I hear at the cyber we get lots of e mail from PR folks. Pr Folks Love to know if you've opened their emails so <hes> <hes> you know in this also blocks that so they don't know if you've opened their emails or not so <hes> you know that can be helpful so yeah interesting. It's it's a good party. <hes> a good third party solution on your web browser. But what about your phone now Google's allowing you to do this on <hes> on your Google Account your g mail accounts but not in your G. Suite counterfeit need to go ahead and allow users to go to do this as well all right well. It's good capability <hes>. I guess I could say what took you so long but I'll say gee. I'd like to know yeah I can do it on my android phone but it seems like it's a fairly simple affects yeah all right well good to know and this is this is something you think concerns you <hes> definitely worth going in and checking those settings. Maybe it's something you want to turn on all right Joe Kerrigan. Thanks for joining US pleasure. Dave and that's the cyber wire. Thanks all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible especially are supporting sponsor observed the leaving insider threat management platform learn more at observant dot COM com. Don't forget to check out the grumpy old GEEKS podcast where I contribute to a regular segment called security. I joined Jason and Brian on their show for a lively discussion Russian of the latest security news every week. You can find grumpy all geeks where all the fine podcasts are listed and check out the recorded future podcast which I also host the subject. There is threat intelligence and every week. We talked to interesting people about timely cybersecurity topics. That's at recorded future dot com slash podcast the cyber wire wire podcast is proudly produced in Maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe where they're building the next generation of cyber security teams and technology are amazing using cyber wire team is Stefan Zero to make a Smith Kelsey Bond Tim no Dr Joe Kerrigan Carol -Tario Nick Valenti Bennett Mo- Chris Russell John John Patrick Jennifer Ivan eater kilby and I'm Dave Bittner. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow <music>.

US Dave DPRK Europe Joe Kerrigan DMV Google North Korea wikipedia Threat Intelligence Company Baltimore Mr Kim Toyota Kamala Devi Akers Southeast Asia UN Security Council
Who Gets to Vote?

Reveal

53:08 min | 2 years ago

Who Gets to Vote?

"So the best way to get all of our stories without anything in between is just an Email in your inbox. Our investigations chains laws minds and sure we like to say the world be among the first read them to sign up just text newsletter, two, six, three, seven, three, five again, text the word newsletter, two, six, three, seven, three, five. I'll see in your inbox. From the center for investigative reporting in PR x. This is reveal. I'm outlet. Thank you so much. Thank you Ed. It's Saturday night in Atlanta. Final stages in one of America's closely watched elections. Stacey Abrams is speaking to a crowd gathered outside some restaurants in bars along Edgewood avenue. She's a democrat running for governor if she wins, she'll be the first African American woman to be a governor of any state. Abrams is called herself in unapologetic progressive, and she's all about making voting easier. There are more of us than there are of them people good heart in good spirits who want for all Georgia. So let together, let's get it done. Thank you so much. I appreciate you all having me this morning Republican, Brian Kemp is Abrams opponent. He's Georgia's secretary of state, strong supporter of President Trump and he's called himself a politically incorrect conservative. There are people on the left. They call literally have called me the secretary of suppression. Really. They don't like it. They, we keep our voter rolls, clean. So many demands commonsense. So we keep our voter rolls, updated, remove with the Democrats. I don't even want to remove dead people, but on Kim's, watch, Georgia has removed more than a million voters from the roles and not just at people. Now he's in a close race for governor. This is happening in the state with a long ugly history of keeping African Americans from the poles, but it's happening in other parts of the country to today. We investigate voter suppression in America with our partners at APM reports. That's the investigative unit. Of American public media. We're also teaming up with public radio station w. AB in Atlanta, Johnny Kauffman is w ABC's political reporter, and he gets a started in southern Georgia. It's weeks before the midterm elections. I mean, a small town called tree riding in the back seat of a Ford Focus. That's moving slowly down the street. It's getting dark and three women from a local chapter of the Democratic Party are peering at the house numbers. For get past. I'm looking for eighteen thirty three. So that's on this side. One of the women steps out and walks up to a house. The women are looking for likely, Democrats using a list. They got from the state party as the sun goes down and it gets darker no one's answering the door. It's getting close to eight o'clock, Sarah, Clayton decides to try one last house. The TV inside is turned to jeopardy, and someone's head is visible through the window. Nobody comes to the door. Miss Clayton turns around and walks back toward the road. What are we vote development? They sees. Really want them to come out and cast a vote, whether person of their choice. Her friends are waiting for her in the car, but she pauses for a second. If a person thinks that my vote not count a no vote is just like a yes vote you that's telling them that you don't care one way or the other, but as a responsible citizen and a person in the state of Georgia, you need to vote. You really do. You need to teach children the importance of voting. You go out and you'd beat the bushes and you complain, but you don't vote. More than one hundred million Americans of voting age didn't go to the polls in two thousand sixteen. So Democrats and Republicans are trying to get the numbers to work for their side. The Democrats are hopeful here in Georgia. A democrat hasn't won the governor's mentioned since nineteen ninety eight. But in that time, Latino Asian American and African American populations have been growing. And these are likely democratic voters as the state changes, Republicans are determined to keep control and Democrats claim. They're doing it by suppressing the votes of people of color. You know the best way to stop people from even trying to vote, let them know they're not welcome and make it hard, make it hard, Helen, Kim Ho is part of Georgia's shifting demographics. She was born in Korea and moved here with her parents in eighth grade. She founded a voter registration group called the Asian American legal advocacy centre in. Two thousand ten tennis you. You've video. Okay. I just found out was like, cried. This is a video called vote. Gangnam style Helen's group made it and it shows people signing up to vote outside Asian grocery stores in Atlanta's suburbs. At one point, a group of dancing teenagers is joined by congressman and civil rights icon. John Lewis. Helen says her group signed up more than fifteen hundred people, but there is a problem. Hundreds of them weren't showing up on the voter registration list. She contacted secretary state Brian Kemp's office, but Helen didn't get any answers. So she went public and got a swift rebuke from camp. Can you walk me back to exactly when you receive that letter from the secretary of state's office? I'm sure I read it and I got scared, you know, and then pissed Kemp's letter claimed some of the applications relate or didn't come in at all, and he turned the tables. He suggested Helen may have broken the law by photocopying the applications and keeping copies in Georgia that could lead to felony charges. So Helen turn to a prominent Atlanta attorney, Emmett Jopling Bonder in the second, the vast number of ordinary people are easily intimidated by exactly that sort of letter. Mr. Bonderman is eighty one. He's a successful corporate lawyer and also something of a voting rights legend way back in nineteen sixty three. He won his first case before the supreme court increasing the power of black voters in Atlanta after Helen asks for his help bond wrote a letter to the secretary of state letting him know he'd be representing Helen and her organization. And if you've got any questions about their activities, you direct them to me and we will respond to them. You wanna shoot at the ok corral you came to the right place and you think about that Kemp's office backed off and didn't file any charges, but he's investigated other voting rights groups, including one founded by his political opponents. Stacey Abrams Kemp says he's just making it harder to cheat Bonder in calls these investigations part of a broader playbook used by Republicans to suppress the vote. So what happened to Helen, Kim Ho. When I asked her, she told me that two years later, she went back to check on the people who group tried to register, half still weren't on the rolls. And then we try to phone Bank several of them, and many of them were no longer interested in working with us or going back to vote because they said they had been turned off so badly. The problem, Helen, Kim Ho faced hasn't gone away earlier this month, voting rights groups filed a lawsuit. It claims Brian Kemp's office has violated the Voting Rights Act. And the constitution and issue is a law that freezes applications. If a name or other info doesn't exactly match other government records, even if it's just missing a hyphen, d. people can still vote, but activists worry, they might be discouraged by the confusion. Emmett bond rinse says there's another voter suppression strategy that still has him stumped it. I Don Don him in twenty twelve. You read an article that the number of registered voters in Georgia had gone down this raised serious questions because we knew Georgia's population was growing. You knew there had not been the black death to kill off a third of the states adult population. And so we're head to be something else going on. So here's what's happening to bond, rinse missing voters, states routinely, purge hundreds of thousands of people from their voter, registration rolls. These are people who've died or moved away or gone to prison, but Georgia and at least eight other states have what you could call use it or lose it. Laws not voting can get you removed from the rolls. It works like this. If you sit out a couple of elections, you can get put on an. Inactive list. The state sends you a Mailer. If you don't respond and skip two more federal elections, you're purged and if you don't know, you're removed, you may show up your polling place only to find out. You can't vote under Kemp. There's been a massive jump in purchase. What's going on here? Brian camps job is to protect our vote. Listen ad from power pack, Georgia. It's donors promised ten million dollars to boost Stacey. Abrams campaign. We just can't trust that Brian camp. Cam's been on a bus tour around the state talking about his record. I went to a stop south of Atlanta outside sprayberry's barbecue restaurant. His regular campaign stop for Georgia Republicans. Kim steps off the bus and gives his stump speech. It's all about putting Georgia, I and protecting its values. Then he gets back on the bus. I get onto, I ask camp about the allegations that he's been aggressively, purging voters. He looks a little irritated. Well, I would disagree with that statement. What we're doing is within the law and required by the law. So your office hasn't been more aggressive than others in the past in terms of removing voters from the roles? No, I don't believe we have. I mean, we're just going through the process, but you know, having secure lessons, you gotta have secure, voter rolls. Kemp says, he's made it easier to vote by setting up online registration, but during his time in office, there's been a big jump in the number of people who've been removed from the rolls more than one point. Six million have had their registration cancelled. Right. Left on veterans Parkway. I decided to try and find people who've been purged without knowing it in multi, the small agricultural town in southern Georgia. There's some kind of signs over there. I'm with Angela Caputo. She's an investigative reporter from APM reports. We've got us sort of guide a database with the names and addresses of all five hundred thousand or so people purged in Georgia last year. And our analysis shows that in the county where mole trees and in more than two dozen others. The purchase are disproportionately affecting people of color. Nine hundred feet turn right on veterans Parkway. Multi is the county seat. We pass white columned homes with manicured lawns and lush magnolias in front on the other side of town. We drive over potholed streets along rows of one story. Ramshackle houses. When we get to the homes of people who are listed as per summer boarded up and the residents have moved away at some of the other addresses were told the people were looking for have gone off to college or the military. I, yeah, this woman tells us she doesn't vote for religious reasons. Oh, I see. So you're a new general? Okay. Okay, thank you. We're still looking for someone who wants to vote in November, but doesn't know they've been purged. So we go to see Cornelius ponder a member of mole tree city council. He's also a businessman and pastor at the real church that stands for restoration, edification and love. He says his family's lived in the area for generations grandparents. It was small sharecroppers Reverend ponder won his election last year by the slimmest of margins just nine votes. He says, while he was campaigning, he encountered people who'd been purged for failing to vote in previous elections that came across quite a few people, and then the election, Iranian. Some of them went down to vote and they couldn't. And then I had two people said that they got down there. They didn't have proper documentation in. It's on this confusion like that during the election, that's not good. He says with Trump in office, enthusiasm is low and mole Trie. In the last election, voter, turnout was below ten percent voters are also frustrated with all the obstacles, purges confusion over polling locations and long lines. The blight races failing might is no longer worth voting. Now. And I think that's what we're we're. We're trouble with van. Angela asks about a name. She spotted on the purge list, made the Kathleen hunter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's, she's Monte. Steve records, say, Kathleen ponder registered to vote in two thousand eight. Then earlier this year officials struck her name from the roles. Reverend ponder tells us he doesn't know about any of this, but does his aunt know that she's been taken off the voting list. Angela, and I find miss ponder living in a small house just outside military. Hey, miss ponder. Yeah. Hi, I'm Angela completed. I'm a reporter with public radio. We're working on a story about people who've been removed from the voter laced. I don't know if you've heard about this, but ngelo explains how Georgia cancels voters who don't turn out in multiple elections, and then in some places, blacks are being pulled off the rules at a disproportionate rate. So you registered to vote in two thousand and eight. Do you remember that Obama's running? Do you remember. My mind, you know the book, making sure do what I did. So then last July you were taking off the voter list. So it would have been on July twenty eighth of twenty seventeen. But you didn't get any notification that you'd it'd be from visiting your. Did you know that there is this policy that they take you off if you don't vote. Miss ponder tells us she had no idea. She'd been purged, although she didn't seem completely surprised. She says she hasn't been a regular voter, but she's thinking about turning out in November to support, Stacey Abrams for governor. Back Reverend ponders office. Angela gives him the news about his aunt. She still lives within the county, but she's been removed from the voter lists, and she had no idea. Interesting. She was never notified or anything. She doesn't recall ever getting anything from election officials. I think we need to get down to the bottom of it because if it happened to her the promise you she's not known the one. He says it just confirms his view that voter suppression is happening. It almost give people the mindset that this is a privilege, not a right and so now anything that is a privilege has to get permission. And so if you don't do our we, we won't give you the permission to use his privilege. He says, he'll take his aunt to reregister so she can vote in the governor's race. We analyzed all the people purged in Georgia just last year, and we found that about one hundred thousand were removed for not voting and not responding to notices. Now we don't know how it breaks down by race. But if you add in other obstacles like voter, ID law and closed polling places, all this could tip a close race for governor when it comes to the purges, Stacey Abrams, and other Democrats say there's a solution, let people register all the way to election day at least seventeen states have same day registration, but not in Georgia. Brian Kemp opposes it and same with other Republicans and states where you have same day registrations. It leads to irrational voting. Brian Robinson is a Republican strategist. I meet him in the marble halls of Georgia's state house. Brian sees voting as a right and privilege. So he disagrees with Reverend ponder who says voting is a right period, Brian, thanks registering. Ahead of an election is important because it shows someone's educated and engaged enough to deserve to vote. You won't people who have been following the lection to some degree who know what the issues are and what the candidates stand for. I don't believe in same day registration because I do think Senate ministry of headache because I do think it distorts the electorate a bit. How does it distort the electric. I don't know how you describe it. Frankly, I'm at a loss on that. But if you don't know October the first, there's a presidential election or a gubernatorial election in. The first two weeks of November, you're not an informed voter, Brian argues purging people for not voting isn't taking anything from them because they're not voters. Like if the presidential election and in fact two presidential elections don't get you out. I don't know what it's going to take to get you out and I don't care what coli war, what you're part of the ship is. I think that's a fair standard. Brian looks at the governor's race like this. It's all about who shows up at the polls, Kemp wins if the racial breakdown voters stays about where it's been in recent elections, Abrahams wins by getting more people of color to the polls. Both probably need to win over some voters who haven't made up their minds, but finding those types of voters could be really tough. You have to polarized angry tribes going at each other. You look at the polling today. There's almost no one decides. That story from Johnny Kauffman of public radio station w. AB in Angelo Caputo from APM reports. When it comes to voting something else distinguishes Georgia from most other states, it's voting machines are easy targets for computer hackers was what you are doing here, even chemically hacking? No, I would not count it as hacking, no. What was it then? It was. It was browsing a website that's coming up next on revealed. Reveal is supported by the all new SimpliSafe simply safe's brand new system is smaller, faster, stronger than ever before. Completely rebuilt and redesigned with new safeguards against power outages down WI fi cut landlines, bats, hammers and everything in between. It's the first security system that you might actually call the youthful. You should check it out and what's remarkable. You still get twenty four, seven protection for only fifteen dollars a month and no contract, but supplies are limited, visit SimpliSafe dot com. Slash reveal. Hey, hey, hey, you're listening to another episode of the podcast. Alison is currently binging and today's contestant is the threat by. So the threat is like revisionist history meets six degrees of separation. Sean Braswell turns back the clock on one story at a TIME TO REVEAL how various strands of history get woven together to create a historic figure and unthinkable tragedy or really big idea. So this new season traces the untold hidden connections between powerful idea, non violent protests from two hundred and fifty years ago tomorrow. Luther King junior and forward into present day the threads sees of three a history of nonviolence available now. So check it out at Ozzy dot com. That's osy y dot com and subscribe to the thread wherever you listen to podcasts. From the center for investigative reporting in p r x. This is reveal. I'm outlet up till now. We've been talking about all the barriers that prevent people from stepping into a voting booth on election day, like getting to the polling station in finding out your name is on the list. But even if you get into the booth, you vote might not be properly counted. Georgia is one of five states that rely solely on touch screen voting machines with no paper audit trail. Cyber experts have warned about these machines for years and recently. So as President Trump, one of the things we're learning is it's always good. It's old fashioned, but it's always good to have a paper backup system of voting. It's called paper, not highly complex computers paper. There's a real cost concern. Special counsel. Robert Muller has indicted twelve Russian agents for scheme to target county websites. Georgia. A lot of security experts are worried that when it comes to hacking Georgia is one of the most vulnerable states in the country, but are the people in charge of elections. They're actually listening reveals by Dunkin, picks up the story. Right now I'm plugging the machine in Logan. Lamb has a voting machine in his living room. This is what when looks like on the inside. So here's where the memory cards go. Lucan is a cyber security researcher in Atlanta, his specialty is finding new ways to break into wireless networks and new ways to keep the bad guys out the touchscreen voting machine he has is the kind Georgia uses at its polling places. The machine is Boehlke and book shaped with the big screen. It looks kind of like a cross between an intendo and bible. Logan booted up says, Accu, touch boot, loader, and then it's the compressing. The image is one funny thing I've been wanting to do is pull off that little chime at the beginning and use that as my ring tone. This is a direct recording electronic machine or Diori. It doesn't produce any sort of voter verified paper audit trail for Logan and other cyber security types. That's a major red flag. In fact, DARE's have been criticized by technologists basically since they were installed across the country in the early two, thousands, one alternative to these machines. Is paper ballots and in recent years, more and more people are pushing to start using them again, like last March at a Senate intelligence committee, hearing unelected security, Ron Wyden, a democrat from Oregon had some questions for homeland security, secretary. Kirsten, Nielsen you wanted to get her official position on electric voting machines, and I'd like to get your views for the record of whether you believe the continued use of paperless voting machines. In this country threatens our national security and the department is now prepared to recommend paper ballots. So yes, sir. If there's no way to audit the election, that is absolutely national security concern. Why didn't look satisfied? And you've now told us that the status quo is a national security threat. Actually started getting concerned about Georgia's elections back in August of twenty sixteen. He'd been reading about Russian hacking of the Democratic National Committee elsewhere and he wanted to help. So he started snooping around the website. If something called the center for election systems at Kennesaw state university, the center had handled elections in Georgia for more than a decade in a very quickly discovered multiple voter, registration databases, some of which contained over six million records of Georgia voters and within those databases. Some of information that I saw there was full name. Address driver's license, number birthdate, less for digits of your social security number wasn't just that either. He found training videos, passwords, plus a series of all NRA -bility in the architecture of the site itself. This would have allowed a hacker to modify and delete files on the server without detection was what you were doing here, even technically hacking of, I would not count it as hacking, no. What was it then? It was. It was browsing a website. So at this point he sits down and composes an Email to the people at Kennesaw state. He says, look, I'm a local cybersecurity researcher. I don't wanna make a big deal out of this, but you should probably know that I turned up all the scary stuff. He doesn't hear back right away. So he gets the cell phone number for Merle king the guy in charge at chaos. You get them on the phone, but the more they talk, Logan says the weirder things get said that I should probably stop. Up doing this sort of work. Otherwise people downtown with crush me. What did he mean by that at the time I took that to mean politicians, right? And I also took that is more of a warning than a threat. But in hindsight, I'm not really sure Logan didn't get crushed by politicians or anyone else, though the FBI did pay him visit a few months later. Now he sitting at the center of a messy situation. One that says a lot about the state of election security in Georgia and across the country. About a month after Lugan. I finds the problem Georgia's secretary of state. Brian Kemp is in Washington DC, a wanna. Thank the committee chairman heard for inviting me to discuss election security. He's testifying before a house subcommittee information technology. And over the past few weeks, he's been boasting about the security of Georgia's system. He's also been calling out the federal government for overstepping its election responsibilities and trying to quote subvert the constitution under the guise of security. By the way, Kemp doesn't know about Logan's findings yet. And at this hearing, he's going off again. Sure. He says the heck on the DNC was troubling. But the DC response to these attacks has been to take steps toward federalizing aspects of elections election systems in standardizing security measures. There's a better way to you and goes on for hours. Eventually, Kemp starts getting pushback from Jerry Connolly. Adele. Critic Senator from Virginia. Mr Kim, I wanna make sure I understood your testimony Connolly skeptical. He basically says, so you're telling us that there's never an election situation that calls for any kind of federal intervention ever and Kemp is like, no, not really. Connolly, doesn't buy it. What about the Voting Rights Act? He says, states were actively disenfranchising people, then the government stepped in, isn't that positive? Kemp doesn't seem to understand the question. I would say that the Voting Rights Act is still impact. Yes, but it's an example of the opposite of what you're serving. It was an example of federalizing something to protect the franchise. I don't believe because the states weren't doing it. In fact states we're actively suppressing those. You don't deny that too. Well, I'm not sure understand what that has to do with the election system. Well, I'm dealing with your assertion of the principle that we shouldn't federalized any aspect of this. And I'm arguing that the Voting Rights Act is clear. Clear exception to your principal and that perhaps the federal government in federal elections, at least has an interest that override state interest. When it comes to protecting at the cyber level, the integrity of the results will certainly your opinion differs. You'll back Mr Chairman at the end of the hearing, Kemp is given one last chance to speak. And he stands firm states have the cyber cybersecurity stuff handled. He says, and in fact, maybe federal officials should pay us visit. Maybe they would learn a few things. I think they'll be very pleasantly surprised. The team at Kennesaw state was certainly surprised. In fact, Logan's Email sent them scrambling. They didn't want to be interviewed for this story, but all their emails were public record, which means you can get them if you ask nicely, but start on August twenty, eighth twenty sixteen Logan, emails, ks you. He tells them what he found. He says, quote, there's a strong probability. Your site is already compromised members of chaos. Us center for election systems start circulating, the Email around and over the next few days. They start to realize, yeah, this is bad. The schools, information security team recommends doing some scans, but then the director of the elections team ways in he says, wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is our busiest time of year. The last thing we want is for the site to become unavailable to all these counties. We need us reading this at first. It's easy to think, okay, that makes sense. But this idea that you can't make election secure because you're so busy preparing for the. Elections, the seems problematic by September fifteenth. These scans still haven't been done somewhat from new elections team says they're struggling with the technology quote, we've discovered were a little out of our depth. Finally, the elections team gets the breach fixed or so they think it's Tober twenty-seventh two months after Logan. I Email them, they think the security team and say, quote, this has been a huge help to us reading this Email. You can basically hear this deep sigh of relief like. This is over except it's not. You might be wondering what brain Kemp has to say about all this. Well, despite Logan lamb downloading reams of sensitive information which camp called deeply concerning Kemp also said that Georgia is protected with layers upon layers of security. And specifically he's made two arguments. Number one, the voting machines are never connected to the internet, which makes them safer from hacking and number two breaking into just one wouldn't really do much. You need a wide scale conspiracy to actually mess with an election. So there's a good reason to push back on both of those arguments. Both those arguments are wrong, which Millo is a professor of computer science at Georgia Tech. He used to be the chief technology officer at Hewlett Packard. You don't need to mount an attack on thousands and thousands of polling places. You just need to have a really good idea of where to target your attacks in order to flip the right number of votes in order to get above with racial. Plus he says, because Georgia's system is so centralized. There are multiple points of entry for an attacker. That's part of what Logan's discovery proved not only did Georgia. We've itself exposed. The people running things didn't seem to understand how bad the problem was or what was at stake. They're making it up. They're scared to death. They're making it up on a day-to-day basis. They have no idea what's going on in these systems. They have no idea why they work or don't work in their kind of living in constant fear that this whole thing is going to come crashing down around the years. They also failed to realize something else. Something really. Portent five months after Logan made his initial discovery. He was hanging out with a friend, another cyber security guy. I was like Krista ever tell you about that wacky stuff. I found a k. issue he said, no, tell me more. They sit down at a computer and download everything. Again, this time there's more because it looks like new info has been added since January, so we get the exact same amount of stuff. The second time effectively. Yeah. So nothing had changed? Well, they had a tempted to fix it, but in such a way that I, I actually don't understand what they were trying to do. Okay. That was those about my reaction. Yeah, I don't really understand. Kim didn't wanna talk for the story, but I was able to chat with Cathy Cox Georgia's secretary of state from nineteen ninety nine to two thousand seven, a democrat. She oversaw the statewide roll out of touch screen machines in the early two, thousands. And unlike every cybersecurity expert I've ever talked to, she's critical of paper ballots from dead people voting to ballot boxes, showing up in the bottom of a lake. They're just so many opportunities limited, truly unle- by ones imagination to commit fraud on a paper ballot. She also said that even the Logan's findings were troubling. They're different from a problem with the voting machines themselves. A breach into a voter, registration system is not a breach into the voting system in Georgia, because those are two distinctly different systems distinctly different secured systems. It's worth noting that cyber experts disagree with this strongly. That Bernhardt is a PHD student at the university of Michigan. He studies DRA's and their vulnerabilities that says, the problem of Georgia system is that unlike a lot of other states, it's all interconnected like giant tree. He told me the secretary of state's office is the roots, your counties, upper branches, and your precincts are like little leaves really inject information or inject, basically. Now we're virus into any part of this tree. The way to set up is that that virus could get transmitted every other part of the tree, not long after Logan downloaded all that data. Second time, some election integrity groups filed a complaint against Brian Kemp for violating Georgia's constitutional rights to have their ballots counted correctly. They asked Georgia to switch to paper ballots before the November midterms. There is a hearing in September in federal court. In Atlanta, it was grueling took all day. You had cyber experts on one side explaining why Georgia's system. Is so vulnerable. One of them even hacked voting machine right there in the courtroom on the other side were Kemp's people telling the cyber experts, hey, you don't understand how Georgia's system works a few days after this hearing federal judge deciding against adopting paper ballots over electronic ones for the midterm elections, judge Amy Teutenberg filed an order in favor of Brian Kemp. She wrote that switching to paper ballots just weeks before an election would create total chaos, but she also spent dozens and dozens of pages, validating the testimony of cyber experts in scolding the state. I'm going to read just a little bit from the order. Quote, the court is gravely concerned about the states piece in responding to the serious Filner abilities of its voting system. By the way throughout the hearing, Kemp's team tried to paint the cyber experts as out of state elites judge totenberg was having none that hacking. She wrote is here to stay and quote defendants will fail to address that reality if they demean as paranoia the research based findings of national cyber security engineers and experts. So that's where we are. Georgia is barreling towards midterms with vulnerable system machines that very few people trust. Kennesaw state is no longer handling elections. Now, the secretary of state's office does the people I talked to say that change won't really make much of a difference. They say, if a hacker got the info, Logan got back in twenty sixteen. They could still use it to disenfranchise voters in twenty eighteen and it's worth noting here. Just how much judge totenberg ruling resembles the logic at Kennesaw state, right after Logan. I emailed them. We. We know our elections are vulnerable, but we can't fix them because the elections are so soon. Before Logan. I parted ways. I asked him a question. Let me ask you this. How sure are you that somebody didn't beat you to this. There's there's not really a way of knowing at this point. I mean, still to this day, I'm very concerned. Reveals by Dunkin, brought us that story. Earlier this year, Brian Kemp established a commission that look at options for replacing the current voting system by twenty twenty. Oh, and the other four states heading into the midterms that use touch screen machines with no paper audit trail or New Jersey, Delaware, South Carolina, and Louisiana. Fear of voter fraud is driving a lot of efforts to restrict access to voting around the country, but where is that fear coming from? That's next on reveal from the center for investigative reporting and p. r. x.. From the center for investigative reporting and PR x. this is reveal. I'm ellett today. We've been talking about voter suppression in fear, voter fraud. People are worried about it in part because of what President Trump has been saying. The many places like California, the same person votes. Many times you've probably heard about that. There was like, so that's a conspiracy theory, not a conspiracy theory fucks millions and millions of people. Those claims have been totally the bunked, but one of the people who got those theories going was a Kansas lawyer who's waged a long running campaign against what he calls voter fraud. His name is Chris Kobuk. He's the Kansas secretary of state. And while that's typically a pretty sleepy office, he's a household name in his home state. He even used to have a weekly radio show. Worst nightmare because he knows the constitution and fights to keep them from making confetti of it. Chris Kobuk Khobar it's been a loyal Trump supporter from the beginning Trump appointed him to run his so-called election integrity commission. It was disbanded less than a year after it was started without accomplishing anything, Peggy, low of Casey. You are in Kansas City has been covering co Bach for years, hey, Peggy. So Bach is from a small state population wise, but he has his big national profile in conservative circles. How did that happen? So Kobuk is a longtime anti immigration crusader. He drafted in law that basically gave law enforcement a lot more thirty to stop people in question them about their immigration status. It was called the papers, please law that's dating back to about twenty ten. And since then he's been aligned with white nationalist groups who backed that effort. And that's. When he got on the radar of the southern poverty Law Center who now calls Kobuk the lawyer for America's nativist movement since then his anti-immigration crusade has morphed into this campaign against what he calls, massive voter, fraud Koba claims that illegal aliens. That's a term he loves to use our voting in great numbers. And this fraud could be swinging elections, but we know that is not true. That's right. I could through a bunch of the little zeroes in percentages you here. But according to the Brennan center for Justice, it would be harder for an American to be struck by lightning than to impersonate and other voter, but that doesn't stop co Bach. He's the leader in the fight against this. Well, it's a major problem. You interview Kobuk last summer. What was he like in person? Well, come up makes it really good politician. He's good looking, he's charming. He's really articulate, but as a reporter, he is also just maddening. He will tell you that even your question is inaccurate. He will fight you on every term and you would be, but. Your use of the term off line is inaccurate. It's not off line thrill all these studies in statistics that you which many of these studies have been debunked by, but he's still uses them. It's like talking to crisco Bach is arguing with your high school debate coach, you're talking to a guy who really wants you to lose the argument. And I think he's really respected in some circles because he has a very impressive resume. He has degrees from Harvard Yale, University of Oxford. And then he also has this other big help. It's a tool called the interstate crosscheck system. It's a massive voter tracking program under Kobuk. It grew to include more than half of the total voter registrations in the US. Okay. So how does this thing work? So about two dozen states are enrolled in this crosscheck program? It's free. They share information between states keeping the voter, registration rolls, clean. Wean states don't want these duplicate voter registrations, and most often this happens when people move so out. When you move from Florida, California, did you call the secretary of state and Florida? No, I did not. That's okay. Then, because you actually weren't breaking the law. Here's the deal. It's not illegal to be registered to vote in two states that said it is a legal to vote in the same election in two different states. So how does Kobuk use his crosstrek system to go after voter fraud? This is where co Bach on it using crosscheck Koba persuaded the Kansas legislature to give him the power to prosecute these cases by himself. So he doesn't have to turn them over to the attorney general's office like the way it's done and all these other states. Okay. So all of a sudden, Chris co, Bach has the power of a prosecutor. What's he doing with well, so far he's turned up. Nine cases of this alleged voter fraud. He's prosecuted them as felonies and they mostly pleaded down to misdemeanors. And most of the people he caught up in this are older, white Republican men, not illegal aliens again, co box term. They often own property in two states, and sometimes that's what gets in trouble. And despite all the talk of voter fraud by non-citizens Kobuk has not prosecuted even one case. So Kobuk is using these just handful of cases to get lots of media attention even nationally, like say on Fox News. It's a huge problem, not just in Kansas but nationally, and we only see the very top of the sliver of the iceberg because it's so hard to detect actually crosscheck is on hold right now, and it wasn't even used this year in Kansas or any other state. So was a well. The department of homeland security came in when they heard of some problems. What's funny is that Kobuk had hoped to head the department of homeland security. He interviewed with President Trump about it, but now that agency is in his state looking at crosscheck, and this leads us to a woman named Anita. Parsa. She's from Kansas. She has a computer science degree and she is appointed herself. The crosscheck watchdog. She sounds kind of like Logan limb. The cybersecurity expert in Georgia who raise the alarm there? Right? Well, like Lamm Anita. Parsa did stumble across some very sensitive data. She's a stay at home. Mom. She lives in an fluent neighborhood in the Kansas City suburbs, and that's where I visited her this summer. She told me she's become obsessed with crosscheck a nearly got kicked out of a New Year's party because I wouldn't stop going on about it. You know, people is glaze over she is Taneja. She's on Twitter. She's calling reporters. She's filing public records requests. She's talking to anybody who will listen. So in June twenty seventeen. When Kobuk is head of Trump's election, integrity commission sent letters to all fifty states asking for them to turn over their voter rolls, Anita. Parsa was prepared one day last June. I'm headed out the door to do some errands. And I happened to notice the request for data and Twitter is just aghast and stop. Put down my bags. I spent the entire day saying, if you're worried about this, you should know your state has been doing this. They have been sending this data to Kansas and I over and over and over to the point where I finally just copied it and was just pasting it in response to people so much that day that I got shut out of Twitter for looking like a bought. That sounds about right with Twitter, the actual human beings shutdown, right? I mean, it's kind of funny, but she really accomplished something her efforts put crosscheck in the news and the department of homeland security has checked into the breaches, crosscheck ISSA down this year. And other states have gotten the message on that. Some have dropped out of crosscheck because of the security problems that in need uncovered. She did this by making public records request to the state of Florida. She got sensitive data on nine hundred and forty, five cans, including parts of their social security numbers and the encryption passwords for the check system. If we were bad people, we could have sold that access in a heartbeat for a ton of money. A hundred million people's private data could have been. We had the key and we had the address. We had them both and we could have done all sorts of crap. And what we did was, let's expose. This, so they fix it. Initially, people worried crosscheck would be used to purge even more voters, especially minority voters. But I really didn't find evidence of that nor did a Nita. She actually changed the narrative about crosscheck because she figured out that the system that's supposed to help states clean up, their voter rolls that what is actually doing is exposing voters personal information. It's a sinister marketing effort probably more than anything else, but that's still hasn't made Koba give up on crosscheck and his campaign to market. This idea, voter fraud Kobuk is fighting and losing his battle against this made a problem of voter fraud in federal court. Knowle's wait, why was he federal court? Comeback likes to say that he's ACL use worst nightmare like that clip that you played. But it's really the other way around the ACLU is really kind of co box worst nightmare. He lost a very public battle to them this summer when a federal judge overturned Kansas voter ID law that requires you to show proof of citizenship. And I d in order to vote like birth certificate or a passport or driver's license and a federal judge said Kobuk not only did not make his case that there's lots of this fraud. This judge Julie. Robinson said that Khobar showed willful failure in obain. Her rulings and his performance in court was so bad that this judge ordered him to take a refresher course in basic civil procedure. Even though co used to be a law school professor and need a person was there in the courthouse for the trial. Oh, I wish more people had been there for a first trial. It had it all. I mean, I don't think you usually get the kind of laugh track that had I, I'm the kind of person like I couldn't really watch Seinfeld very easily because George embarrassed me so much. It'd be like, oh, God like cringe. It was to cringe ahead duck. Sometimes it was so bad. You go to a trial, you're unprepared, you're fumbling, you're embarrassing. You get corrected multiple times. You failed to prove your case in any way. Ooh, bad when you could explain bears for you, right? But here's the thing politically. This did not hurt Kobuk. He went on to win the Republican primary for governor this summer by just a few votes here. He is on the campaign trail. I wanna do for Kansas what President Trump has done for America. When I interviewed him this summer, he told me that if he's elected, he plans to keep on fighting this supposed- voter fraud because the thing is is this is working for him. Even though he was humiliated in court, his federal commission was disbanded having achieved nothing. The department of homeland security crackdown on crosscheck, but he still may become governor of Kansas. Thanks in part to this crusade that he's lead against the problem that doesn't really exist. That is a record that speaks for itself. Thanks pigging. Thank you. My pleasure. Those piggy low of Casey, you are and Kansas City. Earlier this month, President Trump was into Pika campaigning for Kobuk. I want to introduce the next governor of Kansas, Chris co back. At the same rally Khobar brought up. You guessed voted for. He bragged about the voter. ID law passed saying that Kansas has the most secure election laws in America. He didn't mention that a federal judge overturned that law in June. This week show was in partnership with Casey. You are in Kansas City w AB Atlanta and APM reports the investigative and documentary unit of American public media. They have support from the corporation for public broadcasting, Michael Montgomery and Karen Moscow ski produced our show. Our editor was George. We also had help from veal's Aaron, Saint, and Michael Corey special. Thanks, Dave man. Jesse hitting of APM reports and Susanna Kappa Ludo of w. a. production managers Wedneday Hosa are sound design team is the dynamic, dual j. breezy Mr.. Jim Briggs in financial, my men Arruda our CEO is Krista Scharf Berg. Our senior supervising editor is talk. You tell neatest are executive producers Kevin Sullivan. Our theme music is by camaraderie like. Support for veal's provided by the river. David loden foundation, the John D and Catherine t. MacArthur foundation, the Jonathan Logan, family foundation, the Ford Foundation, the highs ING Simon's foundation, and the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation reveal is a co production of the center of investigative reporting PR x. amount. Let's and remember is always more to the story.

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