4 Episode results for "Mr Houdini"
Joe Posnanski on the Life and Afterlife of Harry Houdini
"Welcome to ECON talk part of the Library of economic liberty. I'm your host Russ Roberts Stanford University's Steve Hoover Institution. Our website is ECON- Talk Dot Org or you can subscribe comment on this podcast and find links and other information related to today's conversation. I should also find archives. We listened to every episode. We've ever done going back to two thousand and six or email addresses mail at ECON. Talk Dot Org. We'd love to hear forget cricket. Today's number six twenty nineteen and my guess is journalist and author Joe Stansky. Joe Is probably my favorite Sports Puerto working today and maybe my favorite writer period. He is a senior writer for the athletic and he blogs Joe Bloggs his latest book and the topic for today's episode which is a little out of the ordinary contact. But I think you'll see how ties in his latest book is the life and afterlife of Harry. Houdini show talk. It's great thank you. This is very strange and delightful book. It's strange because it is not really a biography of Houdini. It looks like one the life. Aw but the turns out. We don't know much about them. That's reliable and I would describe it more as an amish to the idea of Houdini the impact of Houdini on the world even today. And let's start off with. Why did you decide to write a book about somebody who died? I think in nineteen twenty six. Yeah but it's still very much alive Why this style of book? Yeah well the why. Houdini is certainly the question. I get asked the most as a sports writer But it's Sir if it relates a little bit too sports into sort of what I've I've always viewed my my career what I've done. I think that as a sports writer and in other other ways I've always tried to write about wonder this idea of wonder these ideas these little explosions in our minds. That that you know open up the world world a little bit. And whether it's writing about baseball writing about Bruce springsteen or writing about moments with my daughters and I I've always felt like there was some connection there and I really wanted my next book to reflect that to to to sort of be a story of wander which is how I viewed this and and I was looking for a vehicle away to tell that story and I thought that actually came to mind was to write about Babe Ruth to do a biography of Babe Ruth. But it's been done a lot and and I new there wasn't well and done very well done very well and there was a major babe ruth book coming out by a friend of Mine Jane Levy and and so you know. That wasn't interesting to me by. I started thinking well. What about Harry? Houdini here's a guy who as you mentioned died in one thousand nine hundred eighty six. He was you know she was a new New York street Urchin basically who decided to go into magic failed. Essentially as a magician came up with this concept of escape deep in handcuffs and and straitjackets and water torture cells. which you know? They'll seem so of its time and yet here we are one hundred years later and he's still the paragon magic he's the he's the person that everybody knows. And I. I wanted to know why I really did. So part of my Thing that I really enjoyed about the book is is to realize how ubiquitous he is today. I'm going to read a a very vary a short passage from the book. We say you know. Why do we know anything of this? Why do we know any of this? We're closing one hundred years since his death and yet when a thief in Bangkok DOC slips out of his handcuffs and alludes a dozen police officers. What do they call them? Houdini a baby in moon during Australia. Continuously escapes a crib to to the dismay and panic of her parents and the newspapers dubbed her Houdini baby a dog keeps slipping out of the yard and creating Havoc Neighbors Guard in Melbourne Florida and is similarly called Houdini dog. This is unoriginal newspapers in San Diego des Moines Rome Amsterdam Northland and also call particularly troublesome pooches. Houdini and you mentioned I think either an article in the book that you have an alert. Google alert on Houdini. Whats that LEA- led to? It's it's incredible. I set up that alert probably a day two days into my process every single day since there's been some Houdini story and often twenty-five Houdini stories and it's about a politician who gets out of a crisis or a or a sports team that gets out of a tough loss and And and the picture that gets out of a bases-loaded jam it's he's everywhere in this very very small way to the point where I think he's you know he's become not just a word but he's become a theme like an idea of what the greatest possible escapes can be and yet he he was Gesta Esta. You know as as as I write in the book you know he was. He was just a a performer. WHO figured out a way to to to make a living and and it's So fascinating to me. So let's do a thumbnail sketch of what we do know about him which I just want to say after we agreed to do the interview. Even after I read the book I asked. I don't know ten people just for fun Young old born in America born outside of America. Who is the greatest magician of all time? eight or nine of the ten immediately without thinking just said Houdini right Someone born in Israel said David Copperfield revealed. I thought it was very impressive. I said well how about someone from the past. Oh Houdini 'cause the first thing Then I asked them How did he die and they most of them said did he drown in a doing one of his tricks that failed I say? How old was he? A lot of people said thirty. which would I guess? I always thought he died young. Tell US actually a brief thumbnail the arc of his life. Yeah deceptions challenges of trying to decipher the man given that he was very he's very elusive. He's incredibly elusive. And and basically there are no facts about that seem that seem real but the but we know the general animal ark of his life and and so fascinating that that you would say that about people because most people do think he died in the water torture cell which is how he died in the movie. That was that was that that was the movie version with Tony. Curtis Janet Leigh and that's how he died and so people think that's a fact but the the basics of his life or he would tell people he was born in Appleton Wisconsin on April six nine thousand nine hundred thousand eight hundred seventy four. That was it the opening line to the most sort of personal essay he ever wrote about himself off was I was born in Appleton Wisconsin United States on March April. Sixth eighteen seventy four and not one thing including including the date is true. Not One thing is true. He was not born an awful that he was born in Budapest and came over when he was four and he it was so convincing by the way that fifty years after his death a magic committee was put together by the International Magic Association. Put together this committee justified out where he was born. They called it the Houdini birth committee and they travelled around the world essentially to find out where Houdini was really born because he was so convincing it was born in. Budapest came to to Appleton when he was four and his father was the rabbi of the of the new synagogue. That wasn't even built yet. They were still meeting at houses and in local churches where they Where they let him in He was fired shortly after that and never really held another steady job. He was a he he tried to be rabbi in Milwaukee and New York and and couldn't make it so very very poor when he was twelve. He ran away from home job to try to Houdini. Houdini that his father Houdini ran away from home to try to make a living. And and and send money back home at fourteen moved to New York. Your went to work for a neck where factory and I came up with this notion of being a magician and I think a lot of people know he. He had read. Read the autobiography of the Father of Magic Roberto Don and so fell in love with it that he called himself Houdini by adding an eye to the end of and Who Don the you know the last name? He thought it was pronounced. Who did he and a friend became the HOUDINI brothers and for the next seven or eight years he he scuffled around? I'm trying to make a living as a magician. Tried to make it as a comedian as a as a singer as an actor anything to be on the stage and was having no no lock at all was ready to give magic was just about at the break. He he put out a a catalog where he offered. All of his secrets. for a price all of everyone my favorite breaking the code of of the magician. Exactly my favorite one of those was because he said specific tricks he would t t the needles trip for a dollar fifty would teach you how to escape from a box for ten dollars but my favorite line. They're the one that's sort of shows the depth of his despair was he offered. All I've ever learned about handcuffs chains and escape price on demand like he could. He didn't he didn't even know it was worth it is. It was just price on demand. Nobody wanted any of his secrets. Not One person responded and he was at the brink of giving up when the he ran into the luckiest break of his career ran into a guy named Martin. Back who is now is. Is there still the Martin Beck Theatre in New York at the time ran rammed the orpheum circuit of Vaudeville he. He liked what he saw a little bit with. Houdini called them to dinner Him Bassett dinner and he basically told him quit his wife. BESS is his wife. Yes back basically told Houdini and bass give up the magic. You're no good added this. I just WANNA I just WANNA interrupt your per sack. In the course of writing the book talked to some of the greatest living magicians if not all of them Both big recall big stage. Magicians like David Copperfield. And sleight of hand people like Joshua J. Yes and Anyone interested can go on the Internet and look up Joshua J. or ricky. Jay Who you talk about is brilliant. Yes hard people So so big and small. A lot of them are S- I would say tormented by Houdini. Yes because almost all of them were touched by him in some way and their career path. don't know much about him inevitably because of what we're talking about now and think he wasn't very good magician hard for them to cope with a let me. Let me put it this way. You mentioned Josh Joshua J.. Who is a you should look? Look them up on on youtube or his genius or you go to New York and see his amazing show six impossible things. He's he's extrordinary But I just didn't event with Josh Josh. And at which was wonderful and he's he's become a very good friend and we were talking about this very thing. Somebody was saying because it's a consensus that as a magician when you're talking about card magic or state magic or illusion or any of these things that Houdini was lacking but he was not very good second rate an all of these things. Yeah and Josh. Put it in a way that I've never heard. I asked him if he'd ever said that before he said No. I thought of it on the spot. He he said it would be like in a hundred years from now. Somebody said who was the greatest musician of two thousand nineteen and it was a wild consensus that it was Miley. Cyrus Sedgley the greatest guitarist singer the greatest everything. Because that's how people view Houdini so at this point go back back to the the the the bio he's struggling and scuffling gets this break and becomes a phenomenon as an escape art. Yes almost immediately and it was after miles of in a Martin back said that he said do the do the escape. That's what you're good at. He does that for a while and then he he has to take it up a notch. Watch yeah we're going to talk later about why he takes it up a notch and he starts appearing to at least put his life in danger escaping from sealed milk cans in the water torture cells jumping into rivers Hanging upside down. You know five stories above the ground. He had to add the threat of death to into the act and by then he's already world famous but as as I'm sure we'll discuss it it. It was never enough and he had to just keep going higher and higher and higher. We're GONNA talk about that tied into Adam Smith. Of course listeners will not be surprised to discover of course How does he di he does not define the water torture? Cell is as you know He dies he died essentially of of peritonitis which was he had his appendix removed. He had appendicitis into some very very bad case of appendicitis and by the time is appendix was removed. He The the poison already leaked into his body and and and he died. I'd five days. After his appendix was removed. The big issue. The big question is how did he get appendicitis and and dirty either he he got appendicitis Bositis and ignored it for a little while before his. What is you know? Now many people know is is the famous punch to the stomach or the the punch to the stomach itself caused a appendicitis and nobody knows for sure but essentially he was in Montreal and he was doing an interview with With with Some college reporters and this guy came in and said Mr Houdini. I've heard that you've you challenge anybody. You can handle a punch to the stomach. Anybody Can Punch you in. It will have no effect on you and Houdini. He was already in pain. He'd broken his ankle Doing the water torture Sal. He was old. Everybody was fifty two when he died and most people think he it was much younger than that but he was still performing and still still at his height of fame and he said he didn't WanNa talk about the punch to the stomach. Nobody knows for sure or if he ever really did challenge anybody to punch him in the stomach. It's it seems a silly thing but but Houdini challenge people to do all kinds of silly things so nobody really knows but he he did accept the challenge. Eventually but while he was getting up from the couch and before he was ready the student punched punched in the stomach as many as ten times and before Houdini finally held up his hand and said that will do and and then he fell back into the couch. ended the interview not abruptly but said Okay I need to go and he was in agonizing pain but he refused to go to the hospital so it's hard to understand why that sequence of life events is Andres later it almost two hundred years later still talked about and of course the other party or book which we probably won't talk about so much but there's a non trivial number of people in the world alive today who are not just. It's interesting guy. Yeah they're obsessed with them. They're like changed by. Yeah so this. This is really unusual now. One Way to think about this. I don't think it's correct. But it's interesting Chuck closer on this program talking about his book. But what if what if we're wrong and in that book there's a chapter which we discussed which is how is it that when you ask people what the great American novel it's Moby Dick Right that wasn't true in nineteen ten say I'm guessing but there were points in America. It wasn't until a certain point where that became the answer. What's the most famous or greatest painting of all time? The Mona Lisa really In eighteen fifty that was not true right And then he spends a fascinating amount of time wondering who will be considered. It's it's not. It doesn't list my recyling who will be considered the greatest rock and roll star right. When it's a short era? You know the the rock and roll era. Who Will it be chuck? Barry is it Bob Dylan is it who who will be the person that that people fixate on and you could argue and I think it's false in this case but you go. You could argue that one one more. Sorry who wrote the greatest marching band songs. All John Philip Sousa. He wasn't the only one but he's the only one that we remember. Yeah and so you could Dr Grow. Houdini is the Vaudevillians Street. Performer magician guy from the early part of the twentieth century. There were a thousand sure. But he's the on that people latched onto and now we've decided I don't think that's the case but that's one possibility. Sure sure but there are other answers. What would you say if you had to answer that question why is his fame mystique so lasting? Yeah and it's a great question. And I love the Claustrophobic Book Book On that chapter and and and totally buy into it but one thing that is so interesting about him being so famous is there have being other incredibly famous magician since his time or rat right and. That's what the you know because if somebody mentions David Copperfield. There's never been a magician. Whose had the success David Copperfield? David Copperfield billionaire David. Copperfield owns islands. I mean he's he's been seen by more people and paid by more than any magician ever and and then there are all these others David Blaine and Penn and teller who are incredibly famous an incredibly popular And yet Houdini even them have and then of course all of the people between you know he in his time You know there was a Guy Howard Thurston who was Sibley more popular than than Houdini as a magician jeopardy confident there isn't a single listener to this episode. Who could have been that's right? That's right and yet. In his time he was he was de the magician. You know and so so I think there's something more and what I what I believe is I believe it's a a wide series of events and breaks and things but I think the key is. I don't think anybody has ever been devoted to being famous as Harry dating. I think he wanted to be immortal and spent his all of his life and all of his money and all of his time to make that happen and and his devotion Russian team self and to his fame is lasting. Memory is it's it's odd and inspiring and and not particularly likable in there. Lots of things about it. Yeah reminds me a little bit of Of Ted Williams who allegedly said when he he was a young kid. I walk down the street right when people see me they go. There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived right and you could argue. It's not opening shot but you can actually make the case when you look at his loss. Four years he's is did the top follow. Yeah if not number one or two three at worst so he he had a dream he pursued it relentlessly. He was not a very likable person. Actually Houdini trouble with his family And yet there must have been dozens. Thousands of other young men who wanted that vision didn't make it so it's not enough to wish that it's true and it's it's really interesting. He's because ten Williams is a wonderful comparison in that in that desire to sort of reach this level of immortality that nobody else has. Yeah but tha and the other thing I would add. Is that both men in a time before the Internet before cable. TV somehow managed to be world famous in an incredible credible way this celebrity is this modern thing. It's not no no and in many ways those those people took it to a level that even today today you know today you can. You can put something on twitter and become pretty you can go viral and it was. You had to work go viral in those times but what I would say is this is a is a very worthwhile comparison with Ted Williams says Ted Williams relentlessly worked on his heading at the right. Nobody has ever worked on his craft the way that he did and Houdini worked on his craft too. But the difference is Ted Williams didn't relentlessly work on being promoted right after after he didn't he didn't have but he but he fought with reporters and he he did not he didn't he didn't plant stories of himself. Doing all these amazing things Dini dead. And and so who Dini's I didn't Houdini. He's relentlessness the way that he worked the media the way that he the way that he created these events sense that that are larger life. I think I don't know maybe P.T. Barnum I ever tried to do it that way so I think there's another thing I'm going to hold off on but I wanna I wanNA give one more possible theory that you talk about in the book I think very poetically. which is there's something about escaping? Yes and just talk about that. No that's that's that's right and and I think he wants. He realized that that was. That was a huge part of his success but but there is a there is I think universal sort of admiration for escape from whatever. It is like that moment. You feel like you're lost that moment. What you feel and personal you know where we want to escape from situations all the time But it's also global. I mean I think that one of the most exciting adding things in football is seeing a quarterback who looks like completely surrounded you know of course the most famous one most famous plays in Super Bowl. History is you know that the against the Patriots and giants and we don't WanNa talk we probably don't WanNa talk about are there but I i. I was afraid you might so. Let's just just by sometimes types quarterbacks escape some does quarterback escape but it is but it is thrilling in a in a different way from almost anything else and and and you know pitcher's getting out out of a bases loaded jam I mean there's there's some heroin tied to the railroad tracks. It's it's not Fisher Motif and and and he not only Sort of reset different level with it but it does amaze me that after all of these years we don't have another example of it. I mean there's so many you talk about this. As Ah the MOTIF who escaped more things than James Bond Ride James Bond constantly escape right shoulder and everything else and yet we don't they always pull the James Bond on. We pulled a Houdini. Houdini still you know and I think again. It's it's he understood people's feelings about it. He knew how to take it up to higher red higher and higher levels as he went and and he's still he's still the very essence of escape and our minds. Somebody gives you a different a different theory. I thought operating representing the book. which is I think as you say people think of him as a magician? It's not literally accurate. Already he did. There's something magical about what he did and he tried to perform magic right but clearly. He was a magician in the very innovative sense that when he was under a tarp chained manacled handcuffed in a milk can and came out. There's that's a lot like cut somebody in half and put put them back together so happened there. I can't understand and I'm amazed by right so the the idea I wanNA put forward is. He was the first performance. It's artist. He was doing performance art. What what we now call performance? Meaning he was putting himself. He made himself vulnerable in front of a large crowd. And and we recently talked about Marina Abramovich With Ryan Holiday. She had a I've forgotten the details is but she gave up a stranger a loaded gun and let that stranger point pointed out pointed at her. And that has I mean. That's so Houdini ass right. It's like yes I everyone in the audience thinks at least That this could end in death Obviously it's part of the appeal of of Nascar of car racing but death defying somehow and. I don't think it's in. My mind is not so much escape as it is death defying or mortality. He is so haunts us and to see someone come face to face with it and get away is exhilarating in in a way. No you're you're absolutely right. You know part of part of this book I took my daughters and my wife To see a show where where someone was escaping from water torture yourself and it was a different explain what that is by the way for people whose out the water torture cell was a complete Houdini invention and it's just A. It's actually much smaller than you would think it is. But it's a box where he was lifted up upside down by this by this kind of crane contraption and then lowered in upside down into this fully loaded water sal and and then it would go all the way down to the point where it locked up on the top and he would be under water submerged and you would see him under water submerged for a few seconds ten seconds fifteen seconds it. He's holding his breath and he's not moving. He's not doing anything thing. And then the Kirk would drop and and it would be a few minutes and people would be the audience freaking out and crying and losing their minds until Houdini Dini showed up and he would come out completely wet and perfectly healthy and all of the curtain comes down around the box. That's not. He doesn't is a backstage where somebody can lift about. No Fox's covered. Yes the boxes just cover that no one seems to go near him. That's right and he's handcuffed inside the handcuffed inside the box. It's yeah so he created this thing so we saw a version of this because people still do it. There's several people still do it. So we saw version of the water torture saw. That was much different because the whole thing was exposed. It was you. You can actually see the person trying to escape which was not out Dini did but I watched i. The the performance this was was was wonderful. And all that but I watch my daughters and how they were ripping the side of the chair and how scared they were. And how how you know. The clock is ticking. Picking just the way it was with Houdini. And and you're thinking about how long you can hold your breath. And and and they're panic. I mean absolute panic until the relief leaf when when he escapes and and I think that feeling is exactly the same. I don't think that that human feeling is has not changed at all so I I definitely agree with that. And you point out the book that many of his escapes were under curtains tarps etcetera but the straight check at one he would ride around on the stage and watch his Agony and and and then he had variations where he would come out from under the tarp still manacled not in the water one but still manacled still handcuffed ask I hey to have his jacket removed and and and the audience is not this could be a failure he might not make it You know it's very it's similar to the the card sleight of hand performer. Who says is this your card and sometimes it's not? Yeah you tend to see the ones where it is but everyone goes a little bit wrong and in these cases again life and death was on the line and now it exactly how they were done. there's speculation and one of the things I love about your book and we're not going to spoil. This here is that I'm about two hundred fifty it's about a three hundred page book Two hundred and fifty pages in You finally tell me something. I had already noticed which is like come on how to do these things. You're very careful not to do that. And I thought we won't do here. But of course people have speculated as you point out and get on the web and find it all you want now. If you're yeah I thought it was important because this book to you know was it was as much about wonder and that notion as it is about Houdini if not more I didn't WanNA reveal and the only the thing I do reveal. Well there are two things one. I offered a theory that I have about about what's called the mirror cops which probably don't want to go too deep into but it is one of his greatest escape and is one that we still no matter how far you look. We don't know for sure how he did it. And and there are many theories about it. But there's no actual solution to how did it so I offer my theory because might be wrong and then one other one That offer a little secret and it is only only because I think it reveals something about Houdini and and and and doesn't really tell you how he did the trick but it reveals a little Something interesting about Houdini. But yeah I mean that was that was really important to me to to maintain some of that mystery. Because I think that's part of why it's so much harder to to inspire inspire wonder today. You know if somebody does a magical performance on television you see it on pen. Teller's fool us or on America's got talent or whatever over the next day. There are thirty five youtube videos explaining exactly how it was done. And you don't have to look at them but they're there and it's easy and it's and it's it's hard to believe in something you know bigger and more magical especially because quite often these these secrets these these behind the scenes. They're disappointing. I mean you you have this big idea. Mind how somebody does a trick and then you find out. It's just a piece of threader better and it's like that that doesn't that sort of bust. The bubble a little bit so I was. I wanted to be very careful not to do any of that so I want to. Let's talk about wonder. And then we'll we'll move on to fame TRY TO Deep deep themes of this book I I think it's incredible label insight to realize that people don't want to know. I think in a way you could say. There are two types of people there'd be how'd you. How'd you come on high? How'd you do it and we we all have a short? We also have the the idea that wouldn't it be wonderful when bad choice award wouldn't be extraordinary if there's something here but that's not explicable. Yeah it's a missed a fundamental mystery that this person has somehow the ability to do something that the transcends Hiding something up his sleeve right. Yeah well I I. I have a very personal view of this because I have two daughters and I do magic tricks for them from time to time and I have one daughter my younger than before you could. I did even before wrote the book I would say. It's picked up the book but yeah I always liked it. I always loved doing Lucar. treks little you know little slights. I'm not good at it but I was good enough when they were young to be able to fool them and I did. My Greatest Cartwright for them shortly after the book was was finished and my younger one my my younger daughter was now fourteen. Katie she she was. How did you do how do out? And she's not stopped just asking me over and over and over even started to tell her no and I'm not gonNa tell her I told her I'm not gonNa tell her but my older daughter who's eighteen Elizabeth. She as soon as I showed it she loved it and she's a pretty cynical. She's a teenager icicle teenager. She said don't ever tell me how you did it. I I want to. I love that trek. I want to hold it and I and I thought well. That's we all have a little bit of both of those things in there and and so I think it's harder now now to to feel wonder because we we know so much and we can grow so cynical and it's it's it's just a you know it's just a a different time and anxious time and and I I just think it's. It's much harder to to be able to just say okay. You know I I want to stop here and feel all this. You know. It's it's just impatient and it's difficult to do that but I think it's important I think I think it's an important part of our lives to be able to to not be cynical and all the time and and sometimes just go. Wow I just want to take that in as a piece of art you know or one of the things I thought of from your book and you're right about your daughters and other places story just mentioned a credit in many ways is going to sound ridiculous but in many ways I think parenting parenting a huge part of parenting is for me anyway was about instilling. Wander my children now for me. It covered a very wide spectrum. I'm religious for that so religion was part of that. Wander the mystery of the universe and using religion as a way to express that Sports the miraculous events of sports the seeming. You know not just that escape but the pennant race. The person under pressure who does something unimaginably Ballot check and an elegant and under the toughest circumstances and something else. I know you've written a lot about musicals taking my kids musicals to see something. Imagine that you can't see anywhere else in that that feeling and whether and one more hiking in places like you're semi absolute so all those to me are I would actually categorize them as religious experiences as a religious person but you don't have to be religious to fill wonder. Obviously I think it's deeply embedded in us and many ways growing older is about the death of wonder. Yeah because children can't imagine how you made that penny come from behind their ear. I there's something gloriously beautiful about that and and to retain that that sense of wonder as you grow older is is I think a huge part of being successful adult. So I think you're right and I you know I. Of course I've seen it many many times sports. It's but I just had this fascinating little mobile so my my older. I'm actually about to write about this. My older daughter after seventeen and a half years of or even fully eighteen years of caring nothing about sports other than it being the thing that takes data way you know. Just no interest has become a passionate passionate Kansas City chiefs fan To to to a great extent and it's fascinating to watch cause I'm watching my own childhood. It's so interesting I I had this moment. She doesn't know that much about it she. She's learning all the time and she just she. She fell. Patrick Mahomes quarterback and you know it built. Isn't he's a magician. He's a magician is an absolute magician. But we had this moment and I and I love this so much we were watching and they you know they went away to New York to show a highlight and they showed a running back there on the one yard line. I don't even remember what team it was online. They handed the running back. He jumps over the pile to score score the touchdown and it's a play that people who have seen sports watch football s seen a thousand times. But she'd never seen that before it and she said my gosh he just jumped over them like outage due out and it was so great it was just such a cool feeling of seeing her. Discover over this thing that we've just taken for granted and we shouldn't it's it is extraordinary that you can play football. You can have offensive lineman defensive lineman smashing into each other and a guy athletic enough to jump on. It takes fly. It's amazing and I love that so much to me. Like that's those are the moments that I that I cherish. Now we've talked on this program about mindfulness and and for me a lot of what meditation and mindfulness or about is preserving wonder it's about appreciating the wonder of daily life which after a while we get jaded we grow up. We've Seen Thousand Times doesn't impress his and what I try to do. Is I think like I use this example before you know when when I hear and see the geese flying in formation overhead on Chris Fall Day with the sun coming through the leaves seen in two thousand times. I want to enjoy it as if it were the first time I try to. It's not easy. Don't always succeed mostly fail but I think makes life a lot. Richard you can tap into them. I think that's right. I I've written about this before that and this is just a silly little thing that I do but I do it every time I've been on as of you. How many flights have we been on our lives right? I mean countless flights and travel is so wearying and it's gotten worse and we all know that but when I get on the plane and the flight the plane is about to take off. I always look out the window and try to think. What am I seeing? This is a miracle. It's a miracle every single tactic. Yeah yeah I I Expression Hebrew that we say On Saturday morning morning kadarshian maintenance which literally translated means renew. It's often translated renew our days as of old which is a I think it's not what a great translation? But but it's basically saying and this applies to to marriage. It applies to persuade everything in life. It's like why would you fell in love. You know when you've been married. I've been married thirty years. I still love my wife and but it's different in many ways. It's better than it was when we first met. But I I WANNA hold onto that beginning as well. I think that preciousness of new and and the wonder that's it's there is is just support part of being human. I don't I don't you know I'm getting Maudlin here in a little bit cliche. But it's it's so important I think so too and and honestly it makes me feel so great to have this conversation about this book because that is the goal of this book the goal is just to think about that kind of stuff and you know you're writing about a about a vaudeville performer. Former who was a bully time and mean and and and and you know it was incredibly testicle and all of these things that people don't like about out him but he was able to inspire this in people this feeling you know and and whatever his motivations were which were you know the could be any number of motivations he did and that's what fascinates me about him and that's what's so interesting and I think something that we can. We can learn from and and develop because I think it's it's never been more important you know and it and it you know it'll never stop being important to be able to grab those moments in those just those things that make the world feel a little bit bigger. You know the other. I meant to mention this before. The other street performers that the performance artists that he reminds me over evil knievel yes and Philip Petite. Now they can even for those that don't know trump over big things in oh by motorcycle canyons. He would try. Yeah and Philip. Petite walked a high wire between the Twin Towers. When they stood tragically adjective feet that will never be duplicated? Of course. is glorious documentary about that launch. I which I recommend but just kind of Houdini ask in the sense that they both risked their life and part of the awe and wonder there was that was there watching someone confronting death that way that they were escaping and and those two cases we knew how it was done. He got motorcycle fast. And somehow you know land sometimes and it had petites case it was okay. He's really good at walking on a wire right but we understand that it's different when you're up that far in that high and the wind and everything else about it And yet Houdini took that and added. I don't know how he did which is even crazier. Yeah and kept adding and kept finding new chapters. I mean that was the that was the end of evil. Knievel right is that evil knievel was was doing all of these things and doing these motorcycles and and crashing often enough that you knew there was a chance you were going to watch him break every bone in his body which we did and then he was like okay. Well Times run out on that. What are you GonNa do now? That's what I'm going to jump the Snake River Canyon and everybody thought he was going to do it in a motorcycle that he actually ended up some weird eared craft and then he didn't make it and you know the I don't even know what happened. No he didn't yeah he didn't die he didn't die in make it and then the parachute came out. And then he was out and then everybody but he was like yeah right that chapters over and And that's how it goes but you're right I mean he was. He was someone who who you know He. He saw the thought of himself as a magician. Any did you magic. He made the elephant disappeared. He walked Walson. He did various things but but when he captured was what street magician a street performer. Tight Rope Walker can do which is at their very best just lifter. Lift your spirits in a way that you just go. Wow Oh wow I mean. I'm I've never seen anything like that. So tell us. The Sarah Bernhardt story probably famous actress every day. I just saw my grandfather's WPRO certificate. His he was born in eighteen. Ninety seven on my father's side His first name was Bernhardt. Wow Spelled B. U. R. N. H. Chain are not His he was called burning all his life But I think he was named after. Sarah is weird. Yes was was an like Houdini. An enormous right celebrity of right I mean just and like Houdini. People had many many many different opinions about her but she was the actress of her day and many thought she was the greatest actress ever many thought she was the worst actress. Ever you know is it was very itchy. She's a fascinating figure much forgotten. You know which is which is tells you how how difficult it is but inner time. Her fame certainly surpass her. Dini's I mean she was. She was enormously famous ascended toward the end of her life. She had her leg amputated. She add she long had issues with her with her leg and and And she had added amputated and then she houdini being Houdini always looking for headlines Connected with her because she was given an award and then she was is asked to pay for the award which is very strange and Houdini saw this and immediately swept in and said I will happily pay for this award and and and and they became friends and she came to a performance of his. And and there's a an amazing photo that captures this scene. She comes and she says to. Houdini Houdini are so great. Can you give me back my leg and Houdini you know is is deeply deeply leap moved and touched and yet he has to say to her that I'm not really magical. I mean I can't really do that and she didn't believe him him she. She insisted that he tried to bring back her leg. And there's A. There's a glorious photos. She's sitting in a car and he's standing outside and she's looking through the window and there's a there's a deep deep sadness in her and as she realizes that Houdini her last hope is cannot bring back or lagging agonize. I just think that story's so powerful well I've read your Maria than you have but you describe it in. The book is saying we're in response today and he says I can only do the amazing. I can't do the impossible. Yes and I think that gets really important aspect of this. which is when you don't know how it's done you think it's impossible? Yeah I love the idea. Some of us like the idea of that that could be. You could get your back you could live forever right again. I think comes back to the word talent that hangs over humanity right but this idea that the miracles literally miracles. Don't just the the nineteen eighty miracle one is which is one of the more wondrous things I've seen But that the true miracles are bought. Things that defy understanding and we we have a piece assume that once that and it's that that story captures up for me yeah You know the original title is book was the amazing using impossible that was the original title. And and then as you you all know with publishing houses they were like you really going to write a book about Houdini and not have his name and the title. You're you're not going to do that. Yeah so that goes but But yeah there's there's there's a a very small but incredibly important -portant line between what is amazing and what is impossible and and the greatest magicians but I think also the greatest athletes and the greatest the greatest performers the greatest musicians the greatest singers and actors and they walk that line so that you see what Mike Trout does us and you think oh my gosh it's impossible. It's impossible for somebody to be this good at this game with that ball coming out of a hundred miles an hour and this and that and the other and it's not it's amazing and it's just right at that line between amazing impossible right the fact that we can't do marriage like this idea of what in sports sports could a can a decent amateur. Do and what can a decent amateur not too so a decent amateur can a weekend. Tennis player conservative. Nice sure Kim return a faster. Probably I'm thinking probably can't touch a roger. Federer serve right touching. It would be an achievement. Stephen might never get it back over the net into the into the court. It's so interesting you bring that specifically up because in one of my earlier episode Iv a tennis player in one of my earlier episodes when I was trying to do my participant type journalism I face. Greg Resent Ski. Who at the time at one of the great serves in the world and and you know and he was taking it easy on me? You know just so you know and I would barely get it back right slice it. I touch whatever. And then he hit a serve and and I it's indescribable because there are there. Are things that you like. If somebody hit a hundred and fifty mile our serve IRV like a an Andy Roddick serve. Of course it would never get to it. But that's not what he did. He hit a serve that bound so high. I literally lifted in my racket as high as I could go and jump and it was probably four feet above Iraq and I thought okay. That's now you've seen it. Now you've seen what. What the differences princes and so? Yeah so you would never be able to do that but then there are some things you could do right. You can get a Birdie and golf right absolutely Louis. You would struggle to do it at the masters right right with the cup. Set up the way they said it. Is that bad. Yeah pills I think golf and I'm of Somebody's got twenty times as life but one of the appeals of golf is that you seem on the surface to be doing something that the best in the world for doing it feels and playing softball ballgame is actually nothing like standing against Randy Johnson. No but you can pop up though but I don't think you could touch. You're we're I touch a Randy Johnson. Patch the fear factor combination. Touch it not not not hit a double in the ever ever the amount of effort it would take to get to it but we know it's not impossible because we know people do it to do it but they do it and I think a lot of what we're talking about here is that you know some of these things. We don't know that anyone can do except this one man. Yeah that's on present right and it's it's it's exactly the ones you do with the best. This was what was so. Oh you know what the difference between a magician and maybe a great a great pianist or something so if you're watching a great pianist playing and you're seeing there you know they'll have that close close up angled their fingers and you're like oh my gosh. I can't do that but a magician you know especially in today's world. They're doing that but making it look like they're doing nothing right so they're taking right they're gonNA hold different level and and so you know. Houdini of course was was constantly pushing. The I'm the only man of the world who can do any of these things which wasn't true but but the illusion was was extraordinarily powerful and and so yeah. I think that's that's when you see something like that. You think there's only one person who can do it. That's really bordering on the impossible right. That's that's where it gets our way out in the right can't do not just in the top one percent one yes let. Let's talk about celebrity And and I guess one way to think about Houdini the you've alluded to is that he was the master of PR. Yes in a way. He played the media We we've talked many times on the program about Adam. Smith's insight from from the theory of moral sentiments man naturally desires not only to be loved to put to be lovely and Smith says I loved. He means praised matter to matter to be honored to be respected He talks about when you walk into a room. People say oh they they notice that you're there is other people are just born visible and how painful that is this human beings we want to be loved when people to recognize our specialists and we want to be lovely went to earn the praise and respect and honor of those around us honestly and and we can fool ourselves and and delude ourselves about that but he he basically says you know there's two ways to be loved to be Seen as as as somebody body one is to pursue fame power and money People who have those three things are they. People pay a lot of attention to him And he says that's the wrong way to get there. He says that's the glittering path he says you take the quieter path of virtue and wisdom. And you know I think about that a lot. A- and the the quest for fame particularly in the Internet Social Media World the challenges of of not succumbing to that And Smith would argue that it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily say this way but the pursuing that glittering path fame money and power is corrosive. You'll do things that you're going to be ashamed of. That are going to be in you and I loved. I saw Houdini as an incredible example. This problem you have this wonderful poem by Emily. Wally Dickinson. That I didn't know I'm a pretty big Dick van. I loved this. It's called. I called anything. She tytler problems but Her problems are often called by their first blonde. Fame is a be it has a song it has a sting To it has a wing and I thought boy what what I mean. It gives me goosebumps to read the poem and Especially knowing that Emily Dickinson was probably the least famous person in her lifetime. For how famous she is now. Yeah she's the Anti Houdini. She didn't promote herself died. I think none of proposer published. I think in her death and now is not just. Oh yeah well. She was a good politics still is speaks to modern just in a in a unusual way so let. Let's talk about that palm and what how it applies to Dany famous a B. has song. It has a sting To it has a wing of the song sting in the wing for Houdini. Well I think a he was neither. He was deeply in love with both the song and a staying. He didn't mind the staying at all so the song is of course everyone knowing Houdini and the money money he made and the fame and the cheers the you know he he. He was obsessed with it and loved it. So deeply the sting is you know. The the the impersonators that came along that that that that drove him mad the the many many people he alienated in his life. The friends that became enemies. He's the he he. He was willing to pay all those prices he was. He was willing to the very end of his life to be hated by group group in order to be loved by another and it was it was something that was deeply embedded in him but the wing the fact that flame fame to fly away. The fact actor fame can end at any point it haunted him haunted him every minute of every day there are there are fascinating fascinating diary entries that he would right because see right around nineteen nine. He'd been famous for a decade and much like what we talked about with evil knievel. There was a moment where it's sort. I've I've seen you escape from every possible thing you can escape from its you know okay. I'm bored I'm moving on and there's a there's an extraordinary diary entry wrote in Saint Louis where he just wrote essentially they didn't come then come to see me. Is this the end of Houdini. Is this the end of Houdini. And and he he meant it I mean they're they're scared he would. He was famous for telling people. You know that that this could ruin me. This'll be the end of maybe you know. And and Haunted him all of his life and so so we always did try to find the next thing next thing. Okay now I gotta add danger. Now I gotta add You know I've got a whole other flourish. I've gotta I've gotTa do the straitjacket escape upside down in the middle of town for free. I mean that's the the other you know. You came here to Washington. And did the upside down straitjacket escape right by the the Abbot Grill and and You know what the at the time was a theater by. Keith's theatre and and fifteen thousand people came to watch him. You know flooded flooded Washington and and it was all just as a promotion promotion for the show. It was all just okay. You got to see Houdini come out to the show tonight and but it was much more for him. It was it was getting that crowd and and having having everyone see him and it was he was desperate to always find that next all the way to the end of his life where his final stage really was unmasking of spiritualists ritualised and mediums. And and you know it was. It was certainly a devoted cause for him but it also put him back in the news and gave him headlines again and and you know at it was corrosive. There's no question and it's why there are people in this book who absolutely cannot stand Houdini. I mean their their voices are here a two and a you know it's because they felt you know one one of the great magic historians of today is a guy named Mike. Cave knee was a great magician as well And a wonderful person and he does not like Houdini and I said to him. Why is it? You don't like you Dini. And he said because Houdini was not enough to win everybody else has had to lose and and I think that that's that's the corrosive part of of needing to be more famous more famous more famous. Just play arm armchair armchair or a psychologist. He was sure sure he was an emigrant through was probably ashamed of not being born here because we know he lied about it. Sure ashamed of his poverty. Shamed of his father's failure reminds me a little bit about a weird parallel runs. It a little bit of Fi. LBJ Who who had a father. He felt didn't match up didn't meet his expectation and said I'm not going to be that guy. Yeah Yeah Yeah and Jewish. I mean you know that was a big part of his ear in those years when Jews were looked down on and struggled to get acceptance acceptance were discriminated against literally and in university admissions and elsewhere. He had a chip on his shoulder. Whole Life Hall? Another way to say yes yeah. I think that's absolutely zoe right. I I think the curse it was. It was a curse that he turned into something else he he he definitely like there is a part of I. Guess maybe this is. I don't think this is unique to Houdini. But there's a part I'm not going back. I'm not going to be that guy again. I'm not going to be poor again. I'm not going to be. He looked down on. Everyone will look at me and they will respect me and they will admire me and they will know my name and and I think it's amazing looking from the outside looking in Dan where you go let some point. You're the one of the most famous people in the world. Enjoy a little bit a can't and I think that's precisely the corrosive also nature. I think that's specifically. What would emily Dickinson is talking about in there is that is that at at no point does the be ever stopped flying and and when you have to endure that is a story? I'm sure you know that when when Marilyn Monroe came back from I think the Korean in war yes her husband was Joe Dimaggio and at that time she was married to some very interesting. Arthur Miller Miller yeah Not that many people were married. Joe Dimaggio and Arthur Miller One wants so she comes back from the tour and she's Joe says how was said and she says Oh. You can't imagine the cheers and said yes I can. Yeah I always haunted is story. Yeah cheers and Lisa. Yes I am the tragedy of Joe Maggio for me. Besides the fact that he's a Yankee which shaw leave side but the ends up his his remember by many the people as the as the spokesperson for the Mr Coffee absolutely coffee machine and in the Paul Simon Song. It's Scholten Joe has left and gone. Where are you where have you gone? Joe Dimaggio jolted. Joe Is left and gone away. He's still around is selling coffee. Makers yeah and that's was obviously it's for the money but it's also because he just wants to have somebody pay attention to them all. It's so interesting and of course the one of the most ever since I learned it just stuck with me so much that Paul Simon's hero was Mickey Mantle. It was not not Joe Dimaggio but Joe module better in the song. It's so so for the meter. Yeah so he was just the lyric he was more of a lyric at that point. And you know and and Jodi module at the end of his life insisting on always being introduces the greatest living ballplayer and and you know it's sad it said but I do believe that that that is that is a rule without exception. I think if fame vein does not ever lead to anything beyond the craving for more fame right I I just I. I don't. I'm not saying the famous a bad thing. I'm just saying that that the pursuit of fame never ends. Yeah that's It's an it's an again. It's a challenge of of of life. You're you're you're famous Write your famous but you could be more famous show. Yeah and you could spend a lot more time out. Yeah sure you spend a little time no matter but I try to spend as little as possible because it it is corrosive Writing a book an interesting experience as you know because it it i. It's all you care about right and you think I've just got to make sure it gets this bookstore on it. Gets this publicity. Gets this article. It's hard not to resist. That Siren. Call what is all the book. It's it's a very different thing because you've worked so hard on it and it's so many pretty lonely hours of of of struggle and and you know and this book was so much fun because I got to talk to so many people but it's still hundreds of hours of sitting in my little office by I myself my girls you know wanting to do something and I've got to be be sitting there typing and thinking and working and structuring and all these other things and so when it's over you want people to read it you know so so that is it is hard to avoid that kind of thing but I think some of it you know it's Theme aim of this conversation is. It's that it's that it's that thirst for immortality it's I I say this a lot. It's it's it's it's a joke but it's not really a joke for most authors. There's that I know. Their books are like their children. Yeah they can't talk about them. Rationally they love beyond reason they defend them Irrationally short because it's their offspring their creation their child and both of them. Have this think they are some. What of a gateway to immortality? There's something you can leave behind. Yeah I think that's right. I used to always have this dream of being able to walk into a library and say To the Librarian I'm wondering if do you have any any fitzgerald any Dickinson any Poznansky. You know that was always. I've never done it but it was always my dream. I Yes yeah I think you want to. You want to leave your work behind especially as journalist where you know so much of what you do is is gone. You know immediately so seating yeah it's fleeting but of course we're books and so is at the end of the day were I. I have no end up on the remainder Tayeb exactly. I know irrational channel feelings. That some day they're gonNA call my book Moby Dick. I don't I don't feel that way but you know you do work so hard on them and and and you do you want them to be seeing you want them to be and you know in a way. That's a pursuit of fame. And in another way it's it's sort of a way way to tell yourself that what you did was worth your time. Yeah self-justification I read a quote from The screenplay of recent movie yesterday which Have you seen it. I have we're not going to talk about the plot Because there's going to be no spoilers here but there is a agent who talks to a songwriter? WHO's not I've been successful and now all of a sudden he's a big deal and she says to him You've hit an extraordinary songwriting group. And you want to be the biggest star in the world. He says well well she says yes the answer to that question. Well yes I guess not. Well yes I guess yes I guess and then she says says and I just love this as so smithian buddy when I'm offering you is the great and glorious poisoned shallows of money and fame name. If you don't want to drink it which I would understand go back and have a warm beer and little Bonnie England drink it. I need to hear you say Deborah. I'm so thirsty. GimMe the Goddamn Chalice. So which is it he says. I'll take the chalice but I think that description a love it. The Great and Glorious Poison Chalice of money and fame gets what what Adam Smith was talking about. And what we've what we're talking about. I do think it's possible to keep fame in perspective or naturally But it's not our nature and you have to fight against. I think the ones that do you know the people that that you see. The the famous the famous actors and musicians nations and performers and and you know and and scientists and economists who achieve. I'm glad you put two different categories scientists and economists. Ah I I want to separate yes. I knew that No but there are people that do handle fame. Well the ones that you talk to go by. It's like nothing you know. We admire those people and the reason we admire them is because it's a hard and it's you know and and your your point about the you know. Just someone like me. I there are steps. You're on a staircase and you know if you take that next step you might get to be a little more famous. Take that next step. You might get but each each step that you're taking is taking your further away from what you feel like matters so so we all feel. There's a koper level. We we all feel on that staircase and I think. Houdini had to get to the top of the staircase. Whatever that was and of course it doesn't have a top right? It's a never ending. slatter Jacob's ladder exactly different kinds of ladder anyway. reminds me What did you say that again? What you just said what? What was that About Oh you're on the staircase. Yeah you're if you're not careful you're getting you're getting further and further. You said from what matters it reminds me of the the you know the the coach or the politicians. I WANNA go to spend more time with my family's stepping down usually. It's because they're never choice right. Few people actually sues to spend more time with their families which makes me very sad but I think that's the reality. I think that's right and I think you're right. I love you know 'cause I just invented that staircase thing just a minute ago but but I love that. The I'm stepping down. That's really what they always say. I'm stepping down to spend more time with my family to focus on my. You know my mental all health or whatever. The case may be when you went to high you climb too high it should be. I'm stepping up. Yes that's exactly right No you're a big springsteen fan yes and I did not see springsteen on Broadway but I did watch the Netflix version. which by the way was a wonderful experience? I thought I thought the having seen it on Broadway and seeing Neth Lex I thought they were different but equally wonderful so it's beautifully done He I appears to have some. We don't know if it's acting or not but he is he he's reflective yes about fame in that in that In that show in a way. That's very powerful. I think it makes a great experience rather than just. It's fun to watch him play Kucinich versions of some of his great songs. But I think what makes it. Special is that his self reflection election about his childhood his parents his father's desire to please as fathers need for his father's love It's a very intense Again vulnerable all exposure which is part of what again great performances often what makes wondrous and and so and so moving And in his book which I did not read but my brother did also understand very honest or at least appearing to be yes. And maybe you have to live long enough to put fame mm-hmm in perspective and the The those who die young which of course many do because they flew to I or destroy themselves in other ways besides death Just I ever get that chance right. Well I I think. The book is very similar to the Broadway show. There's a lot from the book in the show so that's very similar. He just recently put out a movie. He called Western skies. Which is which is which I saw and loved? He is definitely at a stage where I think he always did. Try Cry in a way that I think is a little bit. You know unusual to keep it in perspective to to think about what matters you know. When when he had his first? I big huge bits of fame. He felt very uncomfortable with it. Didn't like it and didn't and rebelled against it to a great extent and then had a a later moment element where he tried to sort of embrace the fame and didn't find happiness doing that. So he's a he's lived a fascinating life and a very public life and now he he is. Because he's Bruce springsteen because he has this incredible fan base he can he has the option and he's taken the option to sort of speak to those people all all of us in an honest way about the regrets. He has and the feelings of fame and and what that was like and how he got here and what it was the created. And it's it's it's a gifted but it's a gift that a lot of people had that opportunity. It's it's fascinating that he's taking that opportunity it. I'm thinking thinking about What motivates artists? And my brother. WHO's a big? I'm a big springsteen fan. You're bigger than I am. My brother's much bigger than I am about bigger than I am too. Yeah but meaning. He seen him maybe twenty times. I've seen him three times. I think twice three times two or three times But my brother likes to point out. That springsteen is one of the rare artists that I would put mark Knopfler as the other one I can think of who at the age of fifty sixty and seventy is still putting out solo solo albums of new new. Yes there are. Two new albums are compilations live performances and first of all it takes tremendous amount of skill to do that but Bill had had a great moment of honesty is somebody who thinks underrated incredibly talented song writer. Performer who has not put out a new record decades right and very few put anything really after the age of forty. It's kind of incredible in the in the pop world and somebody asked why don't you. Why don't you put records? And he said all the last one I put out nobody bought it and he wasn't interested in expressing himself. Self Right which is what is the ideal of the artist if it wasn't gonNA be enjoyed by somebody other than himself yeah I may be still writes this on songs for fun. I doubt it but What's interesting to me about springsteen it's interesting to me about about Dylan and you can see Dylan's confronting his own not not literally really but you you can? It's revealed in the Scorsese documentary. No Direction home which is an extraordinary piece of film. I guess His unease with fame name and his part of his going electric was an attempt to really put a swing in the eye of his fan base. And say you know not only not care what you think. I'm getting joy not carry. You don't like it. Yeah I just think that's an interesting tension and I don't remember anything more to say about it but what you know. I think that's all right and I think there are. People who've rebelled hard against fame. Like Dillon but dillon. Continue to put out music right and continues continues to this day to put on music the thing I love about springsteen's the last fifteen years. Probably since the rising probably since nine eleven which sparked a whole different level level of creativity from him. You know he was so deeply moved by as we all were about night by nine eleven that he felt. I have something to say. It's is he's been really vulnerable. He's put out a bunch of music and not all of. It's been good and not all of its. Even you know they're always springsteen apologists. Were many many of them very good friends of mine. Say they're all all good. They're all good every song grade like really queen at the supermarket. No I mean not. Every song is great but but I loved it. He's out there and still trying crying and he could. He could cash in in such a big way. Just being Bruce springsteen and and playing born of Ron five hundred nights at a year. Yeah I mean he could do what everyone Ed. But he's out there putting you know. I was just listening to Western skies yesterday and I was listed movie version where he plays with an orchestra and it's beautiful uniform and I love all of it but I love most of it and it's and it's really vulnerable. It's totally different from anything that he's done before and I I think that's I think that's really special. I think he's I think I love. It's almost like I love Bruce Springsteen's music but I love the idea of what Bruce springsteen tried to do even more when you think of different artists Some of them or so uneasy taking a risk that they just performed from the greatest hits over and over again and I get that and A lot of talk about magical. I'm glad they're alive. It's it's it's it's it's hard to believe that Mick Jagger alive and others and then they're the ones who get up and take a chance and I I it's just think about born turned around. We walk with me out on the wires. I'm scared and lonely. What's the neck? I remember the next time but writer writer. I wonder how it feels One of love is love Israel. Yeah Karen but but the idea of being out on the wire ties into what we're talking about before the the fully petite on the wire of of of Between the World Trade Center and then Dany again Right always pushing always pushing to you know for Houdini. I think it was pushing uh for fame pushing for headlines and you know that was. That's what equal fame. I mean he was a time before radio. You know. Just at the very beginning ending of silent film You know he was always pushing for that headline and I think other artists like springsteen but but many others writers particularly same idea right right the same thing you did before. Yeah I mean people will tell you do a sequel do sequel of this. You know I just saw Brian Koppelman. WHO'S A it was? A wonderful creator does billions and did the movie Rounders and he's only been sixteen thousand times to do a sequel to rounders and he's he's not GonNa do it because there's no new ground there. There's nothing new for him to to go after this money but it is pretty nice. Nice you got a little fame right. Ah Thankful for those. I'm thankful for those people that are. I'm thankful that you can go see the rolling stones performed satisfaction. I mean that's great but I'm more thankful for the people who are who are willing for the authors that are willing to just write something entirely different because that's where their their heart moves them or communication that goes to a completely different place even if it upsets the fans. Because it's like you have to on a journey and your your hopefully will become with me because you're part of it and I think that's really special on a at a very special part of celebrity and I don't I think Houdini asked his people to come with him but he always it was always conditional you know it was always You have to come with me and big in big numbers or I'm going to try something else because that's that's what matters so. When I started your book I had a particular image of Houdini my mind which was Magical Shirley relief just that. He was this special charismatic Unique thing I didn't know much about and I'm sad to say a little bit that that now that I'm done with the book He's fallen down in my estimation he's there's not just the smithian thing about the pursuit of sure he was good mom. We should say that. We haven't mentioned very good to his mother yes How did your feelings about them? Change over over the course of the book. It's quite a bit just because of something. We talked about the very beginning. which is what what part of him is real? And what part isn't and in and so much of what we know about. Houdini is not true and so much of what we think about. Houdini is not true. And and and it's hard to grasp it's a little bit like fog trying to grasp what is real about this guy and there are many many say because I feel like it's so easy to push the other aside many many really likeable qualities about Houdini. I mean there you don't I don't think you become that successful and famous without having these really likeable qualities he was a he was devoted mother. He loved kids he he was really for someone who chased fame and money in care about money he was. He was escort Caper for improper. No creature comforts. You Know He. He spent all of his money on magic books and he was devoted to the art of Magic to the point where he kept trying to find old magicians and learn from them and make them you know he would he would. After magicians at died he would spend you know his money to make their gravesites special and He was devoted to a lot of really interesting and and even he was likable in in so many different ways. And then there was this other side of him that was very unlikable and and and he was egotistical and he was difficult and You know the bigger he got a little ruthless ruthless little a lot ruthless. Yeah no he was. You know one of the famous stories that that I tell in the book is is that he heard about an impostor awesome clip. Pini who is who is Copying his act and he stopped his tour literally stopped tour for three days and could Pini was not tamous he was just a just a street magician trying to scrap for a few box and Houdini heard about him and stopped us tour and went and found mound him dressed up as an old man in a costume in in the crowd scene. Out of a movie. It's a scene out of a movie. He's he's he's in a crowd crowd dressed up and then when clip Eimi says okay who has handcuffs to challenge me with. Houdini goes I do need any goes up with a cane limps to the stage and puts handcuffs and immediately after doing that tears off. The costume says I the audience may make a home now for. I am the Great Houdini and no man handcuffed by Houdini ever escapes and he was right. Clipping couldn't get out of the handcuffs and he waited a long time I before leading clipping the out of the handcuffs so there was a ruthless. Fe- felt somebody was trying to take advantage of him. Make a name of his name. He was yeah absolutely ruthless. Yeah the cartoon. I've mentioned before which is the. I'll be up in a minute honey. I said something wrong on the Internet. You know it's like he can't let it can't let it go. You can't let it go could not let it go and so so you have this wonderful and and not so wonderful. Mix of many many different from qualities that Houdini had. So as you're writing about him you know there are things you really like about them. They're things you really don't like about him and I think what I came away. Hey with was this an admiration for somebody who knew what he wanted and whether or not it's it was worth wanting you know is is not for me to to to argue. It would be for me but for him. He was going to become the most famous magician in the world. The most famous person in the world he WHO's going to be remembered forever and he he made it happen out of nothing literally. Nothing you know. He was just a poor kid in New York. You're an immigrant and a Jew and and and someone who had to endure incredible odds to make anything of himself much. Celeste become this figure that we still remember all these years later. And Harry are November. Six twenty one thousand nine still talking about him in Washington. DC Hoover Institution. It's pretty amazing. Hang up how did it change you. How did Writing about a long dead mysterious UND- really knowable person change change. You if at all yeah I think there were a couple of pretty significant sort of personal things for me. One is more structural. Oh I think this is my first non sportsbook. I'd written for five collection of sports books before and they're hard. Every book is hard you know I mean I wrote a book Joe Paterno in the middle of the world's pretty hard yeah. That was hard. So they're all hard. Ah but I was always on solid ground. You know I was always i. Was this wheelhouse right. I'm sports writer and I know everybody in sports and if I know someone who does and it was and this was a book I knew nobody knew very little when I started I had this. I came in his book with an idea and I did not know a single person and magic not one. I literally contacted David Copperfield through the contact us bar on his Internet page for his for his casino where he performs and I knew nobody and had no real ends and then building and talking to people in developing relationships ships them introducing me to other people who meet other people. I loved that being on the wire again. You know that's that was. I didn't know how Oh that would be. I really didn't and you know it's so easy to get comfortable and you know just pick a pick a baseball topic and I you know I know enough people in Baseball Ball. I can make it work but and by the way my next book my very well be that but for this opportunity I found it myself how much I loved loved being nervous and anxious and not knowing what the next step was and not knowing where it was going to go I I wondered that because I think it's so easy to get comfortable and so so I love that so that that was the first thing I really learned about myself is that yeah. There's still a part of me that wants that that wants to be in a completely difficult An unknowable situation. The second thing was this really did sort of make me think about what my writing has been about and what I wanted to be about and this idea of wonder was exactly how I came to this project. That was exactly actually my. That was the thing I told them at the publishing house. My told my agent told my wife that I really wanted to write about wonder but having done it and having written about all of these amazing characters and you know beyond Houdini I I started to think this has been a theme of my life. You know sort of where we started this conversation. I think I wrote you mentioned this. I wrote a piece about taking my daughter's Hamilton which went one of the greatest greatest essays of last few years. May It's a spectacular but a link to it. I sent it around to all my family read. Write it more than once. Read it last night again. It's great thank you. Thank you th- and it was very special because it was obviously very personal and I just put it on my blog and I didn't I just wrote out you know and that's about wonder under you know and I started thinking about all of these pieces taking my daughter to potter world. Will you know for for for an essay called Katie the prefect writing reading about my father and springsteen and and the connection there and and and then of course all of the sports pieces that I've written in all of these. You know my favorites there are. That's about wonder it's about these things that are not quite explainable. These feelings that that emerged from seeing being you know that that thing that's bordering on the impossible right right there between the amazing and the impossible and I sort of so. I don't want this to sound. Overly you know anything. Because I'm an incredibly on. I don't like saying anything good about myself but I kinda I think that's my purpose. I kind of you know. That's that's what I started thinking was. I thought all of the success that I've had as a writer has sort of been me in search of of these moments of wonder and and I think you know I i. I don't know that book changed it but clarified that in mind and you know thinking. I don't WanNa do any projects that don't feed off of that. I mean look sports writer. So I'll I'll you know right my takes on stuff that's gone wrong and I'll rip the NC Double A.. And do whatever you know whatever the case may be I have strong feelings but in a larger sense I really do believe that my purpose is is to sort of see about sparking that that wondering wondering people and so so. That's that's a great gift that I got from this book. My guest today is Joe. PAS Danske his book is the life and Afterlife Afterlife of Harry Houdini Joe Thanks for being part of ECON talked. Oh thank you. This was so much fun for me. This is ECON- talk part of the Library of Economics and liberty for Maury contact cody contact dot org where you can also comment on. Today's podcast and find links and readings related to today's conversation. The sound engineer recon talk rich. Go yet I'm your host Roberts. Thanks for listening. Talk to you on Monday Sunday.
Joe Posnanski on Harry Houdini's Enduring Magic
"This is kick ASS news. I'm Ben Mathis I. I'm Ben Mathis William to kick ASS News Harry. Houdini say his name and a number of things. Come to mind. Escapes Allusions Magic chains safes live. Burials close to a century after his death nearly every person in America knows his name from my young age capturing their imaginations with his death defying stunts and daring acts. One of those kids was bestselling sports writer. Joe Poznansky and now. He writes about the magician and his cadre of Modern Day followers in his new book. Titled the Life and Afterlife of Harry Houdini and today Joe Joins me on the podcast to recall delving into the rabbit hole of Harry Houdini. He's legendary life and separating fact from the fiction invented by Houdini and his his followers. Joe Discusses the famous handcuffs that Harry. Houdini almost couldn't get out of some of the most bizarre things. People challenged him to escape including everything from a giant envelope to a giant football and how when audiences began to lose interest. Houdini upped the ante with increasingly more dangerous escapes. He explains why many people falsely believe that the magician died performing one of his most famous tricks. And we talk about the secret code. That who Dini's widow Oh. Bess used to try to make contact with him. From beyond the grave. Joe also gives us entree into the world of Dini super fans from the couple who committed a crime Anton or their hero to the mysterious man who calls himself Houdini ghost plus he reveals. What is like in David Copperfield's private magic warehouse in in Vegas some of the Turner? The century's most bizarre sideshow acts and his daughter's favorite Houdini revenge story coming up with Joe. Poznansky eh in just a moment and Cajole Poznansky is a national columnist for NBC sports and was a senior writer at sports illustrated from two thousand nine. To twenty twelve. He was named National Sportswriter of the a year by the sportswriters and Sportscasters Hall of fame and was twice named the best sports columnist in America by the Associated Press Sports Editors he's the author of four books including the Number One New York Times bestseller paternal and now he's out with his latest book titled The Life and Afterlife of Harry Houdini. Joe Welcome to the PODCAST. Thank you thanks for having me. Well Joe I have been a magic fan ever since I was a kid performing in my parents backyard so this book was a really really refund read for me but it's a little bit of a departure for you. It would seem because here you are. You're a sports guy and usually there's not much overlap in the Vin Diagram of sports fans and magic agic fans. Where does your interest in Harry? Houdini come from yeah. It's funny leering. You give you that very nice introduction. I was sitting there thinking. Wow how did that guy and bring writing a book about Harry Houdini. There is a little crossover. Okay so for me it. No there isn't you're you're one hundred percent right in fact what are the magicians who's is in the book Joshua J. says that in the Ven Diagram between magic and sports it's him like he's the only person in that little sliver so so you're one hundred percent right but I wanted to write this book about wonder. I had this idea that we you know we used to and when I say we I mean people you know in in. Houdini is time and babe. Ruth's time they used to really enjoy. You know wonder and this idea of this. There are things things that are impossible and beyond belief and so on and you know guy like Babe Ruth was bigger. I think than any athlete could ever be today. Hey you know Babe Ruth used to. They used to tell stories of being on the train and sports writers following him and then in sports writers would be playing cards and Babe Ruth would run through through the train and then he'd be chased by half naked woman with a knife and and the sports writers would like all look at each other and they'd say okay. WHO's dealing next? Because they weren't going to write eight about it you know they weren't going to actually tell anybody and I don't think in the age of twitter at that would play in today's world so so I thought you know there's so much that we've gain but what have we lost and to me. You know you talk about wonder you're talking about magic and you talk about magic. You're talking about Harry. Houdini and and here here we are you know. Today is Halloween so we are you know ninety three years after his death. And here's this guy who still lasts. You know people still care hear about it. Know about and and talk about and You know I I. When I started writing the book I I had a Google News? Alerts set up for every time. Houdini he's name was mentioned in a paper anywhere or online or whatever. The case may be and every single day every single day since I started the book. There's something thing usually ten things or things that mentioned Houdini whether it's in politics and and some politician escaped a crisis or a sports moment where You know quarterback escaped a sack or or just you know life moment where a dog keeps escaping from a yard. Houdini is still so much with us and I was. Why what is it about this guy that that still stays with us? You know so many years later and and so there is. It started in some weird way with sports but but it definitely led to this whole new world that I knew absolutely nothing about which was which was wonderful. And it's funny that you mentioned Babe Ruth because as you know I said that there wasn't much overlap. But in some ways Houdini fans sort of resemble baseball fans in that they never saw him perform live. They probably never saw a movie of his act in the same way that most modern baseball fans never saw ty Cobb or Jackie Robinson play but they love the stories. It's all about telling these legends. Isn't it absolutely right. It's so funny among baseball fans. There's there's the famous called shot that Babe Ruth supposedly hit against the cubs where he pointed pointed In the world series and then hit a home run to the spot where he pointed. And there's like this grainy homemade footage and you can't can't really tell anything it looks like Babe. Ruth is maybe in the in the photo but it's in the so hard to tell and yet that is still a legend that people tell to this day. We we don't don't even know if it's real we don't even know if it's true and in that's the perfect an analogy to to Houdini who did all of these amazing escapes. You know some of them famous in in the way that you know the water torture salary or the MIRA cops might be famous and so many of them mm-hmm which he did one time in town because the towns you know carpenters decided to build a box that would hold houdini prisoner or in Chicago Kaga. They put him inside a football to try to get out of this. So all of these wonderful things that were one time only for a very small audience comparatively speaking thing and yet we're still talking about it and I think that was the it's the power of escape. It's the power of his showmanship But I think it's also just our hunger anger for for these kinds of wonderful stories and mysteries like you mentioned in. It's interesting that he's become such a part of our culture because it's not like there weren't other famous magicians Russians in Houdini zero like Howard Thurston and Keller etc yet. Somehow no one outside of hardcore magic fans remember those names or even other celebrities of of the day like Al Jolson. But everyone's still knows Houdini. It's exactly right and you as a as someone who has you know has had a life interest in magic knows that not not only was there Thurston Kellar and and and so many others. They were better than Houdini. You know I mean. Houdini was was not a great magician. Addition an escape artist he was he was a showman. He was someone who who kept finding new ways to sort of pare escape in danger and and he captured the imagination but he wasn't a great card magician or a great sleight of hand magician or someone who did these wonderful illusions the way that that Thurston dead and yet he was so good at building the legend of himself building this larger than life figure that he has blotted all all of them out and blotted out many magicians today. Like if if you ask somebody who's the most famous magician in the world they might say David Copperfield and they might say David Blaine. They they might say Penn and teller and that's about it or they're going to say Houdini because because even now he he still manages the sort of blood out all the other the competition and and somehow be at the top which you know knowing who Dini's ego and ambition and drive would undoubtedly hardly make him very very happy and have to imagine that Houdini must have been a difficult subject to look into because there are so many different versions of the man so many rabbit holes roles and stories that turned out not to be true or can't be verified. Did it make for frustrating research process. It's interesting because I write about a guy named Ken Silverman. Who wrote I think what what most people inside of magic would still consider the the the best Houdini biography ever? You know the one that that really tried to separate fact and fiction and myth and truth and all of these things. I came at it from a very different perspective which made what what would have been a frustrating thing. If I was trying to write a straight biography of Houdini. That would've frustrated me to no end like you hear this great story and and okay. I'm writing at Minot. No it wasn't wasn't true but for me. The the lies and the myths and the misdirection. It was part of the story. You know I it was it. It was fun for me to find out. This is actually true because because even though it wasn't true it's a story that that built his legend built historian and my book is is really about. You know wonder today and and what. Houdini teaches us about that. And about all of these people whose lives were were altered by him and changed by him and inspired by him and so so all of these great stories like one of my favorite points of the book is. There's a very famous story of Houdini performing for the czar in Russia right And and supposedly he said you. Can you know. Ask Me for anything and as I said can you make the bells of the Kremlin ring again. They have not wrong for more than a century. Can you make them ring again. And Houdini went to the window and did did some sort of Majesty Hocus pocus move waved of anchor. Jeff and the bells of the Kremlin rang and a story. Is that Houdini. He's wife. BESS had a little air gun that she shot at the bell to make them ring again. It is entirely untrue. From from the very beginning of the story he did not perform for like nothing about that story is true. But that story was invented by Orson Welles the the the the great film director so too so on the one hand. You're like Oh that can't tell that story and then on the other hand not only can tell it but I can tell that Houdini you you know his his power was so great that he inspired one of the Great Film Directors of All Time Twenty five years after who staff to invent this beautiful story of Houdini fooling the the czar of Russia. And it's it's you know that that to me was so much. Fun was not only getting into the mess because I tell them you know as many of them as I can in this book there but I'd never tell you you know that I tell you right away. I never tell you that it's the truth. I always say you know this. This is this is mythology and that actually very interestingly for me as a writer for you as a as a creator it offered an opportunity to do something which I've I've always wanted to do which was try to write magically try to create a little a little allusion a little magic trick. There's there are a couple of chapters in particular that I love because there's a there's a there's a beginning there's a middle. There's an just like the great magic trick. There's there's suspense expense. And then and then what you think is real and then what is actually real and You know Houdini was the ideal subject to try that kind of writing. Yeah Yeah. It's amazing that Houdini wasn't just reinventing his own story but now he's inspired other people to reinvent his story and I think I remember that story of Tim Making the the bells at Saint Basil's ring from the Adrian Brodie mini series on history channel. So that's totally untrue and yet included in the movie movie Yeah and I and I understand it because it's such a good story that you want to film it. You WanNa put it on you know and they did include it as as included a lot of other myths by the way and then minister is but it's but it's wonderful to see and you know to have not only you know his wife and and his friends and other people sort of invent these legends about him like the probably. Everybody has heard the legend that houdini would get Outta straitjackets by dislocating dislocating. His shoulder. Right that is. That's like a big Houdini. It's totally untrue. And and but it was. It was something people said while Houdini meaney was alive and Houdini loved it. He loved that people because he didn't actually come up with that somebody else did and and they said. Is it true Mr Houdini that you escaped by Dislo. The escape by dislike any of your shoulder and Houdini was like I'll never tell right. I mean he'll he he just played it off and and yeah I mean he created so much of his own myth but he really did inspire other people to add chapters to it and and some of the most famous chapters are not Houdini inventions engines. There there are other people who came up with now. I WanNa talk about Houdini. Early days. you say in here that he overlapped with and worked with a lot of sideshow performers early on and some of these acts are pretty funny. What were some of your favorites? Well my favorite one is is one that again. Maybe a myth but it's one that Houdini specifically really Talked about and that was a woman whose entire act was getting bitten by rattlesnakes. And and that's wall. She would do. She would like go on stage. She I have the rattlesnake Like a rabbit and kill it like that was that was like to sort of like the this is a rattlesnake and then the rows think would bite her and she'd be fine and like she would do this multiple times and I thought well that's first of all. Well what a talent right now yes to to be able to get bit by rattlesnakes continuously But that's that's where he was. That was the world that he lived in. You know he lived Dan the world where they would have cowboy ban the the cowboy who can play piano that would be an opening act or Houdini would open for him. I I mean. This was at a time when Houdini was was was really unknown so so he would do these things for people who had odd. You know the the bearded lady and the giant man and you know these kinds of sideshow performers but also all kinds of weird. I mean it was really fun. My one there's A. There's about a two page section in the book that you've you alert alluded to where I just listed off a bunch of these you know wonderful crazy the yodelers and and and and people that You know one person like there was somebody he got into a fight with that. We bought a gun. I mean this was it was such Chubb Ragtag Dangerous. You know world that he lived in and he was making no money and he was just basically trying to figure out how to how to you you know even stay on the road because he he had one great track which has metamorphosis where he would he would have a partner who will get locked into the trunk and and tied up and then and then put in a bag and then put in a trunk and then Houdini would say count with me one to throw no. Houdini would with start in. Excuse me he would start in the trunk and then his assistant would go kalemie. One two three and on three the assistant would disappear and Houdini would would appear in in their place and and and you know it was a big Big Hit for a while but you need more than one trick to sort make a living at this thing so tried all kinds of stuff. He tried comedy. He tried music he was he was trying to be an actor. I mean he tried all sorts of stuff because he he was running out of Running out of real estate I guess on on his on his magic stop until the point where he almost quit where in eighteen ninety eight. He tried to sell all of his secrets secrets and and nobody bought. And that's that's where he was. He was at a point where he was a magician. WHO nobody even wanted to secrets? And and and Surrounded by all of these sideshow performers. So then what was the big break for Harry Houdini to but but the biggest break for sure was very shortly shortly just months after he. He put out his Cadillac to sell all of his tricks. He he went back on the road. And it was kind of finishing out a couple of of you know Previous engagements and he was in Minnesota. And a man named Martin back who was a a big a big guy in Broadway. I mean in Vaudeville advil. At the time he he was someone who owned who the orpheum circuit there were theaters called orpheum which they're still signed today. And I think there's still a Martin Beck Theater on Broadway. Isn't there that that is correct later. On after after the whole Houdini Seen Martin Beck built the biggest brought Vaudeville stage in in in history on in New York and you know it was the palace theater and it was gonna be this this larger than life thing and to this day There's there's a Martin Beck Theatre in New York. So he was. He was a big guy he was still he was still a developing. You know he wasn't. He wasn't the 'cause later he become the biggest guy in Broadway but he was still big and he came to see Houdini and thought he saw something. He was as a talent scout and he was a very talented guy and finding new acts and he. You called. Houdini went to dinner with Houdini. And Bass's wife and said I'm going to be with you. Drop the magic. The magic is not working for you. Do you your birds and your cards and nobody cares. Everybody does that but stick with the handcuffs stick with the escape like that is your ticket get is is people are so taken by your ability to escape from any situation. That's your future and Houdini rebelled at that. At first he was a big big magic fan. You know his name is he named himself after after the Great Magician Robeiro don where he added an eye to the end of O'Donnell and became Houdini so he he didn't WanNa do it at first but then he realized I have no money. I've jobs it's Martin Beck. And he he started to do it and almost instantly became a bit of a sensation. Which is you know just tells you that? He was obviously very good at what he did and he was great showman and he just needed a break and Martin becky from the break. The second one is is about a year later after a very successful tour on on Vaudeville. He went to England. Basically with nothing no bookings No reputation he went to England because he'd seen a couple of other people make it big there and through. His sort of personal genius is his ability to to promote himself like nobody ever had and And a few good escapes. He became the biggest thing in Europe and then came back to the states. And and you know at that point became you know maybe the biggest star on Vaudeville and I think that this is the time when he gets introduced to soar Arthur CONAN doyle right. It is right around that time crowds of kind of surprised to read that. You're not very interested in Houdini. Later battles to expose the phony spiritualists than his relationship with doyle. Why not what's not to love about that and yeah I do love it? I just don't love it the same way that I love the magic. You know the to me. The the the point of this book was always about this about wonder. And and you know I talk about the spiritualism of bit and a little bit about his his fight with Arthur Conan conon doyle and and you know Dini's the very famous Time that WHO that Arthur CONAN doyle's wife did a seance to try to connect Houdini with his late mother. Who is his his life and you know she was? She was the most important person to him in his life right and and and then she wrote this long letter that she said was from. Houdini is mother and it had a cross at the top of it and who. DV A a father was rabbi so basically putting across on the top of a rabbi's wife. Is Houdini thought. Wow this isn't super real. And and undoubtedly had some impact on him and his later fights with with spiritualism but I I wanted to tell some of that story. 'cause it's important but I didn't I feel like for me because this is such a personal book and and and it's such a such a fun opportunity to to tell great escape stories and tell stories stories about magicians today and magic today and all of that that I didn't want to veer too far off course and I felt like spiritualism was just a little bit out of bounds for me. Well the Houdini was a consummate master of publicity and he had this thing where he would invite the police or lock makers or everyday people in every town that he visited to actually challenge him to escape say their local jail or safe etcetera. What were some of the more exotic challenges that you love? Oh I loved so many of them because every town was different you know he he would like he would go to Pittsburgh and then the Nurses Association would had an escape where they tied hide him to a hospital bed right. So it's like you would go to a beer You know a a place where a beer distributor wanted to put him inside of milk canned filled with beer a year and he would go to mention the football that he had to escape from in Chicago and and You know everywhere he went. It was something different and and and and you know. His only sort of exception was that he said you had to give me twenty four hours with whatever contraption you you built or whatever handcuffs you plan on using so that I can. You know. Make sure that they're legitimate. Of course what he was saying was so that me and my team can configure out how to get out. I mean right so so lots and lots of boxes. That was the big the big thing people would create boxes and they would do super long nails. AOL's so that there was no way for him to hammers way out or they would you know put inside of a glass case. He was put inside of an envelope was put inside of a mail bag. I mean it's so it's so funny to think that you know something like this could survive now but but there he was and it was very personal. That was I think a big part of his of of his huge success was this was. This was before everything right as before radio much less television or or any kind of social media so so he came to your town. It was a big deal especially after he got six was successful and then he would say hey be near the newspaper office office downtown at noon and I'm going to hang upside down from five stories above the ground and escape from a straitjacket and it's free it's totally free. It's just come downtown. And thousands and thousands and thousands of people would come and they would see Houdini do that and of course you know. This was all promotion for people to come news shows. But that's why more people saw Houdini than anybody of his time because he would come and not just perform warm on stage which was one thing but he would do. These bridge jumps where he would jump into the river off off of bridge while wearing handcuffs or he would do this buried alive escape or he would do this You know. The the upside down Straitjacket escape and that was just to promote the name of Houdini and and so you know he he. He was undoubtedly seen by more people than ever. I think any performer had ever been seen before. We're going to take a quick break. And then we'll be back with more with Joe Poznansky when we come back in just a moment. Today's episode is brought to you by Kronos. Kronos knows that for many organizations maintaining a modern workforce of hourly full or part time workers can be a challenge orange. This is especially true for human resources professionals working hard to attract and retain all of the best talent that's why Cronos puts HR payroll erol talent and timekeeping on a single cloud based platform. It's one is specially designed to give. HR professionals supporting blended workforce a whole new level level of confidence with Cronos. They have everything they need to tackle. Nearly any human resources challenge and are empowered to not just find and hire the right people oh but to engage motivate and reward them every step of the way learn more about kronos. HR solutions for the modern workforce and the people who support let them at CRONOS DOT com slash. Hr Swagger that's cronos dot com slash HR swagger kronos workforce innovation that works. NOBODY GOES INTO BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY WANNA collect sales tax for the government but it something that all businesses need to do thankfully avalanche. It takes the mystery and pain out of the complex process of managing sales tax. Avalanche era uses the power of the Internet and cloud services to automate the tax compliance process for businesses of all sizes integrating directly with the accounting e commerce point of sale and marketing platforms arms. That you're already using avarice. Software automatically calculates the right amount of tax that should be charged for every product in every transaction in real time time and filed your tax returns whenever and wherever there do selling internationally adds a whole new level of complexity but avalanche has experts in in fifteen countries around the world to help you navigate compliance challenges as you grow. And if you're a business owner like me you know that managing sales tax is a complex and time consuming process. It's easy to spend countless hours. Just trying to keep up with tax compliance instead of working on growing and improving your business. Yes and at the end of the day. You still might not get it right and you might get audited or find. Stop spending valuable time worrying about your sales tax returns and focus on on the things you actually love about running your business go to Abba Larra DOT com slash kick to learn more about how avalanche can help you. That's AV A. L. A. R. A. dot com slash kick have Lara tax compliance. Done right and now back back to the show and I wanna ask you about. Probably his most difficult challenge a newspaper man in the UK challenges him to who escaped from the specially designed handcuffs called the mirror cuffs. which supposedly no-one could get out of what made these especially difficult and to this day I guess no one knows how he escaped them? What's your best? Guess yes. Well it's it's a super fun part of the buckets. It's like a whole section of the book right. I go through people's theories so these handcuffs. The story was that this this this this reporter at the Daily Mirror. That's why they're called the mirror. Cops went all all around the country to find these most inescapable handcuffs and found a locksmith and in Birmingham who said that he had taken five five years to build these handcuffs. That could not be packed and cannot be escaped from and the thing. That's that's sort of unique. There's a lot of still exist there in David Copperfield's for Field Private Museum in Las Vegas. So they I've seen them. They're beautiful their one piece but the thing that makes them special is it takes a long key probably ably eight inches long to open them and in order to open them. What you have to do is you have to put the long key into this big? Lock this side lock and then you you have to turn it like five or six or more different ways you have to. It doesn't just turn and open. You have to turn and then turn it back and then turn it forward and turn it back and there's no way to pick them especially. There's no way to get the the pick into the lock while you're handcuffed by them because it's because it's such a long key so this was the challenge and Houdini made a very big deal about not wanting to take it and then he went on the stage and was on stage and he. He went behind his his curtain. He had a little place he called. It goes box and try to get out. He came out and everybody cheered and he was still had the handcuffs on and so he explained he needed some help needed to see some light or something and then he went back in and then came out and everybody cheered and Lisa. My legs are hurting me. And so they bring him a pillow to to stay in the thing and he goes back in any comes back out a third time and says I'm very rewarm. Can you unlock the handcuffs. So I can take my jacket off and and the the guy reports no. I'm not going to do that. You know you've seen them leap lock. You've never seen them on locked. I'm not going to give you that. And Houdini. Without even hesitating sort of reached into his coat pocket with his teeth and pulled out a a penknife and started like pulled his coat over his head somehow and slashed with his penknife and the toward the jacket off of his body. Wow using this pen knife. which itself is an amazing magic trick by the way and the crowd goes crazy just crazy and this has been forty five minutes already of of nothing happening essentially so they go absolutely crazy and then twenty minutes later he came out and he was free and the place went? You know insane and they carried great him on their shoulders and he talked about the greatest thing he'd ever done. And the you know the mirrored the Daily Mirror reporter conceded defeat and it was this big moment and it was and it was played up quite big because because it was a newspaper reporter who issued the challenge so So all the fleet street papers were there and it was. You know it's it's it's it's by far. I think the most recorded of all of Houdini he's Trucks and yet as you mentioned hundred fifteen years later or so. We still don't know we don't know how he did it. Everybody in magic has a theory about it and I write about a bunch of those different theories and then and at the end. I couldn't help myself because this book has as it doesn't reveal. How did things and if people want to know how he did things there you know there are plenty of places places out there you can find how he escaped from the Milken or whatever But I had to throw my own opinion so my own opinion not to ruin it for for people but is that the whole thing was a setup by any yeah and and that he he. You know quite brilliantly invented wanted this story and but there's there's a there's there's only one way that I could see how he pulled it off which is more interesting to me than the fact that it was a sad upper Nada setup There's only one way I think he could have pulled off and I'm not gonNa tell people that hopefully they'll read the book and and see how. How did it at least how I think? It's hard to imagine people today sitting in a theater and waiting while someone behind a curtain tried to escape something for forty five. You imagine it. Ah That's one of the wonderful things about Houdini to me is everything he did. If you take two steps back it's ridiculous you know what I mean. It's like in the moment but here here. He comes out and he goes look. This is a water torture. Sal that I built myself and I invented and now I'm going to go in and I and I'm going to escape I'm like well of course you are. You build the thing I mean. It doesn't that doesn't seem to make a Lotta Sense. And and this was exactly the same thing he would come out with handcuffs. He'd he'd never would do handcuff escapes in public. He would always do them in his little in his little box. So could you imagine today he like somebody saying okay. I'M GONNA escape from handcuffs. Hold on I'll be right back and then you go into a box. And then he'd come out and handcuffs off. I mean that would not exactly play and and it's you know there would people would wait for twenty minutes half hour forty five minutes an hour you know and some of these escapes staring at nothing just listening to a band play music and just staring at a curtain hoping you'll come out and and yet the tension was so thick and the the nerves were were so frayed that they're all kinds of stories of people in the crowd crying just so they're so freaked out that he's going to die particularly with the water illusions that he was going to die or he wasn't going to get out there they were going to see the one time that Harry Houdini failed and and And he really played up on that. And that's not working today now. Yeah and I guess it's around Midlife. When he starts to worry that his star is fading and that's when he decides to literally we started escaping death with the water torture cell and other tricks? That you've mentioned tricks where he would die if he couldn't escape and they become increasingly more and more dangerous ece. There's almost a certain level of madness to this now. Oh absolutely there's madness and and and it's and it comes from a place of madness. which was that people? Were going to forget him The people are GONNA lose interest in him the that that was his sole fear. You know I mean He. He was not afraid of pain and he was not afraid of of Of of you know these these dangerous things that he did but he was afraid people are going to forget him he was afraid he was not gonna be famous anymore. He was not going to be have money anymore. I mean He. He grew up with nothing and he was so fearful that time would move on and he would end up being back where he started and so yeah he he you know they're they're wonderful wonderful as far as interesting Diary things that he would write he would say you know th they didn't show up for me and Saint Louis. Is this the end of Houdini. You know you would he he would have these very you know. I mean. There weren't public his diary. But he's very outward feelings of fear that that his time was going to pass and so he did he said okay. So what I need to do is this is turned in danger. You know because escaping from handcuffs while extraordinary you know. In in in in that time there was no threat you know there was no. It wasn't like he was gonNA stay in those handcuffs forever so he started with water and you know water was a very big thing. He was a swimmer He he really even before for. He started doing these kinds of escapes. He was fascinated by how long he can hold his breath. I mean this was a big part of his athletic talents and so he the milk was first where he just filled up at Cana. A milk in with water and he would go in and they would put the cover on after they filled it up to the top open and he would escape from from from the milken and then and then he had to do it upside down so that it was from the from the water torture. Sal But but as you said it's like all of these other crazy things the bridge jumps where he would you know jump into in a cold lakes cold rivers while wearing handcuffs officer being in a box or or whatever the case he he was you know buried alive bury me alive. He had he really did. Keep pushing the envelope because every moment he was like okay. People are going to grow used to this. They're going to tired of this. And what my next chapter. What's my next chapter? And he took that all the way to the end of his life. Yeah and a lot of people think that he actually died performing one of those tricks the Chinese water torture cell. But that comes from the Tony Curtis Houdini movie right. That's not true true. Yeah that's right you talk about legend and and how other people added to the legend. So the the movie the Tony Curtis movie in Nineteen fifty. Three three called. Houdini where Tony Curtis played. Houdini and Janet Lee Played His wife and she was his real wife. It was a big deal and it was a it was a big deal. In two the different time periods. It was a big deal in the fifties when it came out and then in the seventies had a second life like as it became the every Sunday you know it would be on television division basically and and so it it is really really influential and the director producer. Both of them. I thought that the way he really died. Which of course after getting punched in the stomach and and and having seitis and all of that that it was not worthy of hero as big as Houdini like I think the the line was you know Houdini was too much was too much of hero to die by getting punched in the stomach so they had him die in the water torture cell and for years and years and years ears. Everybody thought that's how he died. I mean it was it was pervasive. Yeah the one of the people I talked about in the book is a guy named John Cox. Who is the leading? Probably the lead leading. Houdini expert I think in the world And John Fell in love with Houdini after watching that movie but he soon found out that wasn't now he died and he he felt it was his personal mission in life to tell people that Houdini did not actually die in water torture. Solid people would argue with them. It's no no. That's exactly how he died and he used to carry a book around with them to show people that Houdini did not actually die in the water torture cell so so yeah that was You know yet. Another of the incredible myths that Houdini not invented did not create That that lived on way past in and here we talking on Halloween. The anniversary of his death For ten years. After Houdini died his wife. BESS would hold a seance and try to contact him from beyond the grave. Right as we mentioned. There were a lot of fraudulent mediums. So how would she know of. Houdini had really tried to contact her from the great beyond. Well she and and Houdini had created a code they. They called the Houdini Code that there were certain Series of words that he would say eh and and then he would say A Roosevelt believe. which was you? Know the the Related to the song that they that they share and and basically he. Houdini said if this is the code then you will know. It's me you'll you know because he knew you that that people were going to try to fake. You know Houdini coming back. He was so related to spiritualism and so on and so forth but then the whole thing kind of fell apart art because a medium did come back with the code which you know we later found out was essentially given to him by Bass and and the whole thing kind of turned into a a sad little moment of time because best came out in public and said Oh this is this is the real story. Houdini really has come back and then later that she had to say okay maybe not fair. Well the guy she we believe again. You might have one of the many things that you don't know. She definitely like them a lot. She definitely thought of him as a handsome handsome conman Whether or not they were actually having affairs is Is Up for debate. Eight but but But definitely some weird stuff but best the thing. This is a hugely important part of this story. I think if if ended up in for Bass those ten fifteen twenty years. After Houdini died he might very well have been forgotten. I mean he was very very famous and and and and a part of the language and all of those things but you know people fade. I mean the most famous people of his time like you mentioned Al Jolson and you know even Charlie Chaplin who who had such a long stretches is very much. You know In the background now Buster Keaton guys like that and and so she was relentless about her publicity relentless about the Houdini out relentless about getting a book written about him she was very much involved often in getting. The movie made So she she was someone who kept pushing and kept pushing and and I feel like she definitely bridged a very big gap and to until the movie came out and the movie was was very successful for about twenty years and then a whole bunch of other people took over and and and Dan continued to this day to to share his story. yeah and I WANNA talk about the Houdini fans in the time. We have left because this book is as much about them as it is about the man himself south. One one couple that you run into or Dick and Dorothy Dietrich who are too hard core fans. They built a Houdini museum in their hometown. And I gets the even committed a crime to honor their hero right. Yes that is correct. I'm actually going the the Houdini Museum in Scranton Pennsylvania which has no connection action whatsoever to Houdini other than I guess he he performed there maybe but that's their home town. They this Dorothy is actually kind of a legend understood her own right she is. She is a magician And you know in the seventies she. She got quite popular she. She was the first woman on television to to saw man in half. She kind of turned that all around she. Did the bullet catch she. Did you know various upside down straitjacket escapes. And she's actually the person that the Islah Fisher character in. Now you see me is based on so so she is. She has a real a real background in magic and then her husband Partner Partner Dick Brooks is this. You know very fascinating guy who also has had a long life and magic and they love Houdini. I mean love him obviously enough afteh build a museum in his honor and and yeah they what what happened was at Houdini gravesite. There is a bust of Houdini. He's had and Dan has been there since the beginning except every Halloween usually although it could be any time of the year people come in and they would steal the boss or they would or they would vandalize underlies the Boston. It got to the point where they basically said okay. You know what we're taking the bus away this is. This is only hurting so for many years is there was no Houdini. Bust at the at the place and and Dick. Dorothy did not like that and they did. They broke in to the cemetery and and put their own bust in there. They had specially made And you know they were caught. They did get caught and and the the the secretary of people let them do it. Because why wouldn't you at that point but that was that was their plan was to to seek really go in there and and return this Houdini bus due to the gravesite right. And there's also this elusive figure that you're sort of chased throughout the book Who Bills himself as Houdini? Ghost toward the end. You finally meet up with him at the Magic Nick Castle in La. What's he like? He is a true character just say his name is Pat Colloton and he is an actor was it's an actor and it still does some acting who had a very rough? You know you went to Vietnam and came back and like many many who went you. Know didn't find signed the same life for himself when he came back and acting jobs. Hard to come by and and he always loved Houdini and decided to start going around the country. Doing Lick circuits talking about Houdini. Doing a few of Houdini tricks called himself. Deans Ghost and as time kept going on ended on he. He started becoming this very. I mean legendary. Houdini expert and he put out these very odd but but but super interesting books about Houdini about his life about his secrets. And and they're they're impossible to get their impossible to find I only printed a few copies of each. And they're like these little bits of gold inside the world of Houdini and and and yeah. I felt like it was really important. Talk to him. He did not want to talk. And then I kind of warm down. I guess and and was able to meet with him at the Magic Castle L. A. which is this wonderful wonderful clubhouse of magic and And I wrote about him and I wrote about him. I think quite lovingly I I you know really moved by his story. Rian his life and his energy and his passion by we'll tell you he hates the book. I mean hates the your book. Yeah Oh hey why I mean I. It's it's why is a very difficult thing to come by. You know it. It says what are the most dishonest book ever written about. Houdini and I'm like well what's dishonest about. I can't tell you so and I think in a way that that that I I mean. Of course I wish he would liked it. I you know I. I've worked very hard to to make him come alive in and I wish you would have liked it but in a way it's better that he doesn't because he's there's so much of Houdini in him and there's no doubt my mind. Houdini would not like the book not because of of anything specific in the book but because he didn't write it you know what I mean. It's not it's not Houdini. Yeah and nothing nothing. Houdini hated more than imposters. Anybody trying to make a dime off of his name was was enemy number one and so you you know in a way. I kind of appreciate the Patrick. You know I think Patrick's like hey. I'm in this book but I didn't write it so I I understand that and I still love the Guy I I still love the guy now. If there's anyone who might be considered the successor to Houdini. I suppose it would probably be David Copperfield. You say in here that Copperfield in Houdini are nothing alike and entirely. Like what do you mean by that. Well there nothing alike in the way they perform their nothing alike in the way that they act. I mean they're they're very very different people. David Copperfield didn't even come from magic. You Know David Copperfield right was a prodigy right but he he love Broadway. He loved songs he loved movies. And and he you know he made his career on sort of building. Magic through those was things through the Lens of Broadway or or you know music and you know. Houdini was totally different in that way and they were totally different personalities personalities. David Copperfield is not the the bully that Houdini was or or you know he's not the they're they're just different. But then you step back and okay. David Copperfield changed his name. You know he's a young Jewish kid who fell in love with magic changed. His name became the world's biggest magician. And and there's a relentlessness to Houdini and Copperfield. That I don't think anybody else has because I think you can make pretty good argument in the magic world that the guy who was the direct descendant of Houdini is actually David Blaine right. David Blaine as does escapes. Right and crazy stunts and all all of this but copperfield works so hard even now use a billionaire and he owns like seven islands. And yet you go to Vegas on Christmas Week. He's doing three shows a day Christmas week. Wow in why in a what is it that drives and I. I thought to myself if I can figure out what it is. The drives David Copperfield to do that at a point in his life when he is you know the most successful guy I can figure out. Why Harry Harry Houdini when he was the most famous magician escape artist performer? Maybe in the world why he still despite despite you know being an agonizing pain refusing to to get off the stage in Detroit Because the show must go on and so so so to me that there's a connection there that that is obvious you know the the two guys who changed their name and became world famous magicians. And then there's some drive and ambition that those two people have that I think is is less obvious but but every bit as interesting. Yeah I can definitely see that connection of that need need to constantly be one upping yourself and doing something new to keep people interested because it makes me think of you know when he vanished a jet and then after canister jet he had take the statue of liberty disappear. It's just getting bigger and bigger. Yeah it was it was. It's an endless. It's it's you'll never do. I think in magic. You'll never do the perfect perfect delusion right you'll never there's always something better something bigger something better something more amazing something more impossible and I think both of them have been searching. I don't think both of them live on the stage in a way that's different. From the way they live the rest of their lives. And then there's just something else that's very difficult difficult to capture about both of them. You know I think. Houdini spent his whole life building. Houdini making Houdini something bigger and grander than anything. That had ever come before him. And I think there's a little bit of an Copperfield too. I mean he's he's he's got this incredible Museum Private Museum in Las Vegas which was kind enough to let me tour and and you know it's it's it's a magic trick all its own. I mean it's it's the most extraordinary thing it's like walking into his mind and you know he loves that it's beautiful. He loves that and then and he's performing you know a completely new act in Vegas which involves an alien and and so on trying to find new ways to to to push magic and I think that they connect that way. I think they connect and that there was never enough. There's there's always something more and they're never gonNA stop chasing and I'm so jealous that you actually got to visit his warehouse because David Copperfield. He has this almost legendary magic collection that I think is the biggest in the world of private collection that he houses in this warehouse in Vegas and in my imagination. I'm sorta picturing something like the closing scene from raiders of the lost Ark or. Something is that about right and what kind of stuff that is about right. It's it's the most extraordinary place I've I've ever been in. Its own way you walk in. And there's a perfect representation of his father's store men's store in New Jersey. It's it's exactly you know shirt for shirt like Like that Men's store in New Jersey. And then you go to the back and my time because I think he's changed a lot you go to the back and you pull a tie and the whole back wall opens up and then and then you're in the world's is greatest collection of intrinsic quist dummies. Because he started off as a ventriloquist. Wow and and it's creepy and weird but but interesting and then you walk into one of the world's largest Broadway collections because of his love for Broadway and then a huge movie collection whereas all kinds of all kinds of posters sisters but also you know bits of sets from different movies and then the magic is you know. It's it's beyond belief. I mean from from the world's most extensive of Magic Library to posters and and and and props of every great magician you know through through route's two centuries and then on top of that. He has the world's largest Houdini collection which is which is the most cherished part of all so he has the water torture cell and he has the mirror coughs and he has all of these handcuffs and keys and posters and letters and everything else. It's the kind of place where at some point the producer. His producer took me to a back room where he was gonNA show me some other things and it wasn't for public view is just like a little back room. There was a couch there and a table. Just ratty old little place And a lamp and as we're leaving the showed me the letters he wanted to show me. We're leaving you said whole field. This and he reached buying a lamp and pulled out an academy award. And I'm like what. And he handed to me and he said feel heavy. This is is this really heavy. Like it's amazing that they're on stage and the Handyman Oscar and and and it's so heavy I can't believe more people don't drop them and I'm like Oh that's interesting. Yeah and and then he puts it back behind the lamb and we get ready to leave. That's it like the this is. Nobody will ever see Davis. It's nothing and so we're walking out and I said well you guys you question. He's like. Yeah who's Oscar. Is that back there in the middle middle of nowhere behind a lamp and he says you know what I don't even know and go back and he pulls out the Oscar and it's the Oscar of that Richard critise he's won for directing Casablanca. Oh my God and I thought the the directors Oscar for Casablanca The one of the great movies ever made is like in this storage room in the back. I mean that's that's the kind of museum this place says it was. It was dizzying. Absolutely Disney what before we go. I know that you've apparently passed down your love for Harry. Houdini to the next generation in your family you say that your daughter shares. You're interested in Houdini and particularly Houdini. Revenge stories right. It is true my oldest daughter who gave me the hardest time during during this book because she just constantly was. I feel like we're haunted by this guy. This guy won't go away and and and and you know but but it all along sort of showing little interest in a little A little bit of fun and and and Kinda getting into it a little bit more and more and more and you know but she's still never stop giving me a hard time about it but then I started telling her Houdini revenge stories and you know my favorite one is he was on and to our and and he he heard about a guy who called himself Cla Pini and who is doing his act and it's so enraged them that he went to the head ahead of the tour and said listen. I'm taking off the next three days. I mean they'll deem you never did. I said I'm taking off the next three days. You'RE GONNA have to cancel those shows or I'll do them at the end but but I'm leaving and he laughed and he went and found this very by the way. Let's say very obscure magician mission escape apologists. who was doing no business? You know he was. He was nobody but he went there. Dressed up like an old man and then Clinton I need you know did his his bit and then he said. Is there anybody in the audience. Who wants to challenge me and Houdini comes out dressed up like oh man when he walks with a cane and he says I they WanNa challenge you and and he pulls out these handcuffs and he puts them on companion as soon as he puts them on he tears off his is his costume and says the audience go home now for no man who Harry? Houdini locks in a chains ever escapes and everybody goes crazy and Capino is finished and of course he couldn't get out and and that's the story. It's so of all of the Houdini stories that I told my daughter. That was the one that she the law like. She'd love like tell me more revenge stories by Houdini so so she like the dark side of Houdini. Yes well again. The book is called the life and afterlife of Harry. Houdini Joe Poznansky. Thanks so much for talking with me thank you. This was great. Thanks again to Joe Poznansky for coming on the PODCAST. Quarter his new book. The life and afterlife of Harry Houdini on Amazon audible or wherever books Sir sold he brought with him at Joe Poznansky dot com or on twitter at at J. Poznansky folks. I've been a small business owner the for just about twenty years now so I know how easy it is to waste a lot of time trying to keep up with taxes and tax laws are so complicated at the end of the day. You still might like get it wrong so stop wasting valuable time worrying about your sales tax returns and focus on the things that you actually love about running your business with a little help from from avalon. Cavallero simplifies sales tax compliance with real time rates and automatic filing their software seamlessly integrates with the systems. You're already already using so it couldn't be easier go to avalon. Aba L. A. R. A. DOT COM slash kick to learn more have a larum tax compliance. Done right today's episode is brought to you by Kronos Cronos provides HR solutions for the modern workforce in the people who support important motivated engage them they put hr payroll talent and timekeeping on a
John Harbaugh, Aaron Jones, and Joe Posnanski
"Welcome to the Peter King. podcast where this week. We're going to examine some things in an out of the national football league. I sorta Herta got this idea when I was reading a book recently. Called the life and afterlife of Harry Houdini by Joe Poznansky. WHO's a great American sports writer? I'm sure most of you who listen to this will know Joe or know of his great work. Use The two thousand twelve sports writer of the year in the United States. But we had a long conversation about this book because I am totally smitten. I'm totally fascinated with Harry. Houdini and have been for much of my life. And you'll hear that conversation with Joe and a bit but also I have shorter conversations early on just a few minutes with John. Harbaugh the coach of the Baltimore Ravens. I got him right after the Ravens. Thirty seven two twenty victory over the Patriots Sunday in the bowels of MNT Bank Stadium in Baltimore and also a player who this week in my column I believe will be one of the most important players in the second half of this. NFL SEASON NON quarterback division. Dan Aaron Jones running back the Green Bay packers. I talked to Jones last Thursday which obviously does not include the major league that the packers laid at the Los Angeles chargers on Sunday. But I'm just fascinated by the story of Aaron Orrin Jones and we will get to that how he grew up how he was without his parents for awhile. You'll hear that story so three guests this week doc. Baltimore coach John Harbaugh Green Bay running back Aaron Jones and Joe Poznansky the writer of the Harry. Houdini book first a few words about the team. I saw on Sunday night the winning team the Baltimore Ravens. And why when I I look at the modern NFL why. I have so much admiration for the Ravens teams in the. NFL will take. Let's say the New New York giants in quite a few teams. They might go through a dry spell and they might win for awhile contenders for a while. Show up to training camp every year and think. Hey we had a good shot to be playing football in January but and I'll use the giants specifically typically. I guess the giants stuck too long with ally manning and they are paying for it now in the effort to try to continually build and and add players around Eli Manning so that he could contend maybe they bought some mm free agents that now look like poor investments a nate solder. The left tackle right now. They were desperate to get a left tackle. They made him the highest paid left tackle in football and if he watched the Monday night game this week the whole line of the New York giants in the game against Dallas is just a sieve cannot protect cannot block for the running back that they paid so handsomely. For in the two thousand eighteen drafts saquon Barkley. But that's another matter. What what I mean to talk about is what the Baltimore Ravens have done? They didn't wait too long. They didn't wait years in in watching a mediocre Joe FLACCO. who wasn't getting the job done a quarterback they? They waited a couple of years when they were dissatisfied with the production at that position. And what they did is they went out and they drafted Lamar Jackson. Thirty second overall in in two thousand eighteen. There were five quarterbacks picked You know in that round and and clearly now at the time it was Baker. Mayfield Sam Darnold. I love those guys. Are Most people love those guys and there was this coldness around the candidacy ended. AC- and the draft odds of Lamar Jackson. And now you see him after. Thirty one teams passed on him. You see what he's doing. He didn't put up Gaudy numbers Sunday night but he obviously played very very well for the Baltimore Ravens Evens but this is something larger than that the Baltimore Ravens. The reason I admire him is that the ravens are a continuum. It's very hard in the NFL. These days to make sure that you continue to supplementary team and you continue to be good and to me I think it is so interesting the way they have built their team and I talked about this on my earlier. podcast based on Monday this week my FM. I mini pod. Bud when I look at the way that they have used the draft first of all more compensatory picks than any team in football in the last ten years and more draft picks than any team in football in the top six six rounds than any team in football in the last ten years as well that enables team to stay on top when you have all all of those draft picks especially in the higher rounds and they always keep their eye on the prize. They do not worry when win a key player like Cj Moseley leaves because obviously if they lose a great player in free agency. They know what's going to happen. They're going to get criticized publicly. They're going WANNA get criticized in the press. They always have under Ozzie. newsome now the first. GM Eric Decosta. But they don't really care because they understand Dan that first of all we're not paying a guy who we believe is a good player but not nod in ear replaceable player. We're not GONNA pay him so much that we're going to ruin the rest of our team and so. I think that has been sort of a hallmark hallmark of what they have done over time and why I respect them. They don't get married to any single player. They get married. Read the team the team the team. It's so ironic that the head coach of this team. John Harbaugh his brother. Obviously obviously Jim Harbaugh. The coach at the University of Michigan one of the most influential people. In his life was Bo- Sham Boeckler the coach coach of the Michigan Wolverines who coach Jim Harbaugh as a college football player. And that is the famous slogan. That Bo Sham Becker lived by the team. The team the team and I think okay everybody in Baltimore lives by that and I think it's something that for years now that they seemingly have their long term quarterback in Lamar Jackson accent that we're going to see the last thing. I'll I'll tell you that I thought it was really interesting in in the locker room. With Lamar Jackson Jackson. I spend a little time. I sort of staked them out after the game because after his press conference where you know there's a bunch of people there because I was is hoping to get a few words individually so so later mean a couple of other. Writers were standing his weight former and talking informally to them and you could just tell how excited he was and how happy he was and how much he was just into the moment. This wasn't about how great it was. Oh my God. I beat Tom Brady tonight. It wasn't anything to do with that. It was we want a game tonight and hey I'm happy because we won you know there's nothing about me me me and I just walked away from from. There walked out of the locker room that night. And I said man with this quarterback and with this ethos they have on their team. I think they're going to be good for a long long time. Anyway let's get into my first guest. Which is the coach of the Baltimore? Ravens is John Harbaugh and we're going to pick up the conversation. It's only a few minutes. We're picking up the conversation when I talked to him about A. Ah How fun it was to watch. Lamar Jackson go out there and really control the game. Ben Rothlisberger all years and that was the thing that drove me crazy with him he moved around make plays any throw it tomorrow do that too but the fact that you can do with his legs to who is just as it's a it's a great weapon. You know outdoor playing ball long. I'm glad everybody got you as it John. Did you ever think you would have an offense since that so many different things tonight you use some. RPO stuff you almost a couple of times. You know you did wishbone often. I swear you know he pitches it out but I mean this is such a diverse different difficult to prepare for offense. Well when we got Lamar thought what we would you know. I didn't know exactly how it would go. I think Jiro Greg Roman deserves and all the offense coaches disturbed tons of credit. Because it's one thing to talk about or think think about have a vision for how it's going to what the elements are going to be and what you want to be able to put together. It's a whole another thing to put it together you know. And and that's that's what that's what they do. That's they're the ones you have to organize that. Get it all taught get it wrapped all those kind of things and we're only halfway through the season. There's less store yet to be written one way or the other. But you know Greg. Roman off interest after credit for that. John What do you think you said to the NFL tonight if anything about because it's look like the Patriots have been so good in the first half of the season obviously even losing using this game. They're still an excellent team. So what do you think you guys said to the rest of this league tonight. It really wasn't I mean that's to me. We were six into all right we we have we have a lead in the In the AFC northern we've got we've got hold onto it. We got extended if we can you know we have eight games still to play. I mean that's what's going to tell the story. So wherever wherever statements or anything that a guy that need to be made won't be made for the second half of the season. I think that's the thing that we have to just keep in mind. Let's just look forward. Let's get to Cincinnati and Try to be the best team we can be next week really and we keep it that simple. That's what we need to do last thing. You've had a great rivalry with the Patriots over the years. You've only played them here twice before tonight. Since you've been here it's really really been imbalanced. But what was it like to get this great team. This great franchise franchise in your house tonight and to play them on an even footing and and obviously to beat them is great for our fans. I the thing that I was really happy for the way. They've earned those other playoff games. I mean they earn those home field advantages so and the other one's just rotational. So you know. I guess it's probably should be somebody even for the regular season if it's not it isn't to talk to somebody about that. I don't know why that would be the case. Well what's going on with that but obviously having for our fans because we don't get a lot of prime time games here for whatever reason you know like Pittsburgh. We always playing there in prime time. It seems like I'm just happy for our fans to be able to experience the stadium. Hate him like I said in the deal and the press conference at night. It's really electric. It's really a great venue. Our fans are great. So that's what you're happy for the last thing I'd ask you your midway through the third quarter you get a third down and the crowd is really. It's almost like a chapel. You know everybody's he's quiet everybody's saying Oh my God twenty four to twenty you know. It seemed like there was a lot of worry in the stadium and then Lamar Jackson makes that pass to mark. Andrews here's what are you thinking lead into that play up thinking we need to play a hope that we make a play dislike the fans are. I'm probably feeling the same way they our but we got the Mar Mark Andrews. You know that's not the first time that's happened for us this year. So we're not. I wasn't shocked. You know by Ryan Stretch. I mean we've made a number of those plays already this year. So now we've got a lot of good young players it unafraid of the big moment up to this time. So let's keep building on that John. Harvard congratulations thanks. Peter Mike thanks to John Harbaugh so this week across crossed the NBC sports podcast platform. You're GONNA WANNA hear Chris. Simms unbuttoned every Wednesday. What I love about the Sims Sims podcast is that he puts it in absolutely plain English? He doesn't fool around he doesn't even put it in football ease. He just tells you exactly. Why teams won and lost? And I can't say the word right here on this this podcast outcasts. But he basically has. What the bleep happened podcast on Monday? He's going to go inside. The raiders goal line. Stand that held off the Lions in one the game for Oakland. Howie Andy Reid? beat Mike Zimmer and how the chargers totally befuddled Aaron Rodgers that podcast comes out today Wednesday his Monday podcast also broke down. How Lamar Jackson got the best of Bill? Bill Belichick you'll also want to check out if you're a fantasy player. The Rota World Football podcast. They got four episodes every week hosted by. NBC's is Josh. Norris one of the best in the fantasy game now. It's getting to be crunch time in fantasy. Let Josh Norris helped set your lineup and now let's go go to my conversation with Aaron Jones. The new star running back of the Green Bay packers happy to be joined on the Peter. King podcast today by Aaron Jones running back with the Green Bay packers who's kind of exploded onto the NFL seen leading leading the NFL and touchdowns at the season's mid-point and has really played well and been valuable guy for Aaron Rodgers Rogers both in the passing game and the running game Aaron first of all welcome in and before we start before I ask anything. I'm going to play play a clip from the Sunday night telecast on NBC. And after that I WANNA get your reaction to what you hear. Just luckily your sky over here was a tough match up for them all night and I didn't I didn't do a whole lot. Besides get him the ball and let him do his thing. You referenced referenced. Aaron Jones who are going to get to next. What kind of luxury is it having this guy with you? He's he's a special guy. He's in the locker room. He's a great young leader. He's a fantastic player. Does everything the right way. He doesn't have an ego and he's a hell of a glare glad. He's on our team. So Aaron. That's what What Aaron Rodgers said about you after the game on Sunday in Kansas City first of all? What's your reaction to hear? Aaron Rodgers talk about you like that. Just like wow I mean it does a lot for your confidence As a young guy That's a hall of fame quarterback and he's saying this stuff about you as a player. It does a lot for your confidence and it just makes you wanna work that much harder To keep helping them out and keep in that that spot to go to The having him depend on you. Have you been at all surprised at that particular part of your introduction to pro football that. Here's a great quarterback one of the great quarterbacks when he retires probably. We be a top ten quarterback of all time. And he's relying on you and looking at you and talking about you like that. And what has that meant to you as a football player and is a person I mean it means everything like I said. It does a lot for your confidence as a player. Are you have a future hall of Famer Saying that about you He's seen a lot of football. He knows football so he definitely knows what's going on. Not In these in these things about you. Like I said it's just GonNa make you want to go back and start grinding right away and work harder Are to continue to improve. Continue to raise your game. Let's talk just a little bit about your role in this offense and how it has a how how it has sort of expanded in the time that there have been so many injuries now on this Green Bay Team I. I noticed in the game against Kansas City. That you were lined up. I would call it as a wide receiver in this game. Including on the sixty seven been yard touchdown pass where you Kinda came into motion. You stopped and you took a pass from Aaron Rodgers. So how much have you practiced practiced actually sort of wide receiver plays on and off season Kind of work on route running and catching to the ball a little bit and I think that's something that all running backs do not just me See it across the league and stuff So it improve your game So that that way and then of course here in practice We work on those those routes as well And in this offense Baxter access to to be used in different ways as in you gotta be very suitable. So I'm glad I can bring that aspect. HAS ANYTHING ABOUT THE PRO game. Surprised did you. Since you got there is a fifth round. Pick out of Texas EL PASO in two thousand seventeen I would say you you hear how much of business it is but then You actually see you once you're here And it's surreal assault. I would say that. Probably I want to ask you a few things about your your life in your past a very interesting background and that you're a twin and you and your brother were grew up in a military family moved around a lot then settled in El Paso I end. Correct me on anything that I'm wrong about here. But settled in El Paso and then when you were about eight years old. If I'm not mistaken your mom and your dad both who are career military officers both were deployed to Iraq. And it. Just tell me what that was like for you and your brother staying back while they went out in service of the country It was definitely tougher. My sister was as well would us We ended up moving from Tennessee at the time. We were living in Tennessee And we moved. Move to Virginia with my uncle and They took care of us but as a child That that that's very hard. I mean you used to seeing your parents every day and Then the next day you you're not seeing them and you're not knowing if they're gonNA come back at the time you're not understanding. Really what war is you. You like you hear war when you're younger and you just think of people being killed and so you're not knowing when like if you're going to see see them or anything and so it's just tough on tough on kids in But luckily I have my brother and my sister We we have great family and so They were able to just look after US and make sure we were good and my parents came back safe and thing I'll just think offer that. So how long were you without your mom and dad for about six months My my I think it was my mom. Dad had left I Going to Iraq and then like three months later my mom. Yeah I can't imagine when you're eight years old what that's like and whether and you know having no idea just watching your mother and father voluntarily go I mean. Do you remember remember what that day was like. Oh Man I do. I remember the day like the back of my hand. Just remember Going there air so I got a big hangar and You're you know you you're you know what you're there for. You know your parents about to leave and you see other kids and everything anything you just see them. Start to line up and Getting getting there and units and they start to exit out the built in That's the last time you're gonNA see them Praying that they come back alive and But it was a lot of tears that day. A lot of crying Just no I'm I'm a Momma's boy to this. Oh my I think my mom was the second one second one leaves so just love. Can you look back on that and tell me how if anyway either it affected you in your life did it made you make you grow up. Faster what what when you look back on on it now. What did it do for you in your life today? it is. How much stronger longer person overall Faith ause as well. My parents were in my family. Were big into faith and just always tell me. Continue to probably win. Time to get hard when you're when you're not feeling it or just anytime Your downs is not only when you're down but all the time continue to pray. Continue to Prien as a kid get me and my siblings would be so we would be doing. We would be granted our parents make it back saving like we as a kid. We're just helping we get to spend the next Christmas with them. You know a lot of holidays missed and things like that. What do you think now when you are back together as a family do you appreciate it? You think even more than a lot of people probably do because there was a time where you wondered whether your mom and Dad would come back back definitely Never take a segment them for granted 'cause they're twenty nine twenty seven years in the army Any Day could have been the day Not just in the army but any day could be. It could be anybody day any day. You know so I just my parents always taught me. Never take anything for granted Treasure every moment and so every moment I get I get to spend with them. I charter every moment. 'cause I mean you know who knows I I mean I don't know what has gone on over there but who knows one step to the right one step to love. Things could have been different so I just continue to Brian all right. Thank God with Aaron. Jones breakout running back at Green Bay. Packers Aaron I wonder when did you I I think when did it first occurred to you man. I would really love to play in the NFL. One day when I Fire well yeah when I first started playing football I told my dad I was like I was in the football and basketball. I was like I want to NBA NFL And and that has been my goal ever since I was little to to become a professional athlete and not only become a professional athlete. But be the best at it and How much how did you figure that that football was your game what what happened throughout high school to to make it more inclined to be for you to pursue football or basketball was actually my favorite sport My Height on Number number two Just more schools were showing interest in football. So I was like I think this thing might might be the way to go. Definitely definitely so I did that I actually play my first year in College Me and my twin brother. We both play basketball our first year in college as well. Wow did you have any big moments on the basketball court at ut up Yes sir I came in We played Old Dominion was really my first real game Playing plan We're in conference and won. A guard gives them foul trouble or come in play play good scored I PATS them assist in couple rebound. Wow so in college you were not really very much of a receiver. You caught seventy one balls in four seasons at Texas El Paso then you ended up getting drafted by the packers and with the packers. You have really become much more of a receiver. What what has that been like? And why do you think it's happened. I just. I think I've Sung that I've I I've had good hands and Since he's been here So that's one of the things that they've seen me and just the offense the The coastal floor runs. I feel like it just physically. Very well He likes to use back everywhere all over the field and So the better you can catch them more you'll play In the more opportunities as you have and and is is that partier game that comes natural to you or heavy had to work on your hands a lot No come natural to me I played receiver for a year and slot receiver for a year in high school so my sophomore year in high school so Catching the ball. I've definitely worked on ever since I was a little I would say probably I didn't get good are catching kill. Probably High School Probably Eighth Grade Star got started getting good. I catch him before that. I wouldn't say I was very good at catching. What's it like to catch an Aaron Rodgers? Pass verses other quarterbacks you've played for what is the ball feel like coming into so you. What is the? What's the accuracy like? How how is it different to catch a ball from Aaron Rodgers issue? Right in between your numbers Sometimes out of the Times. That ball catching stuff. You just gotTA put your hands out That's the easiest way for me off off. I love that ball catches Soviet. You just gotTA put your hands out you. Put Your hands out the non ten. Ball's GonNa fall right in your hands so two other things. I was curious about when I serve. I've been watching some some of your highlights this year and and watching some of the Games. I notice that you can line up almost anywhere. I don't know how many places you've lined up this year but it's a lot. What is it very complex? Is the offense of Matt leflore difficult for somebody like you. WHO's asked to do so many things I would say at the big at the beginning if this was presented to me out of my wall like this. This is a lot but we've had not as we had a camp so we've got to come in and learn the offense and get offense down now now. I'm able to be be moved around because I know the offense and I can blown up in different places still know what's going on and not only me but you'll see Around the field you'll see other guys lined up like you'll see Danny Italian fullback lined up at wide and different places like that so I just think it's part part of that. What's Matt Leflore like to play for us a lot of fun bringing energy every day? You know you're going to have a lot of fun with him meetings are fun. you're learning a lot about the game football and He's GonNa make sure you're giving your your all your one hundred percent and I want to go. He's GonNa make sure you're ready a land with this. I don't know whether you ever look at statistics numbers or or where you stand. But what is it like for you right now where you came from fifth round pick not at a power five conference and who knows what kind of career you're going to have but now this year you've got better numbers numbers than Ezekiel Elliot and And Todd Gurley in some of the really big names big running backs in the. NFL does does it ever seem unreal to you know. Sorry not at all I've always believed in myself and I competed with some of the same guys and college rushing wise and numbers was and was up there in the same category statistically so so I feel like this is not the new for me and I guess something. I'm capable of Aaron. Jones is really pleasure to talk to. You can get to know you a little bit. Thanks so much for spending some time. Thank you thank you for having me Sir and now my conversation with Joe Poznansky the author author of a new book on Harry Houdini so happy to be joined on the podcast today. By Joe Poznansky. He's he's written a book. That is just out called the life and afterlife of Harry. Houdini Joe as many of you know is one of the best sports writers in America. He in two thousand twelve was named The national sportswriter of the year by the National Sports Media Association Asian and I have great regard for him as a sports writer and I just I could not believe when I saw a few months ago that that you were writing a book about Harry. Houdini and we're GONNA get exactly that. But we're sitting here in my home in Brooklyn and were were basically going to dissect the life and times of Harry Houdini but Joe I guess I saw start with saying you write in this book very early on there have been more than five hundred books written about Harry Houdini now which has to be more than any American figure. Ever maybe Lincoln Lincoln. Yeah but I can't can't. I just can't fathom anybody having that many books written about. So why did you want to do the five hundred I. It's it is the right question. It's by the way worst worst book pitch in history is to go to somebody and say I want to write a book about Harry. Houdini the five hundred first book. I I thought I thought this was going to be something different. I thought I had a different way to look at it. Because I didn't start with Houdini. I started with this idea of wonder you know mean sports sorts writers. That's what we write so much about is like that that moment. You know that that sort of a Ron. You see a a hefty not see a basket that just opens up your whole mind you know and I think magic does that too. And here's a guy who died it almost one hundred years ago and he still the most famous magician in the world and he still somebody we talk every day. There's every single day there's a story somewhere somewhere about Harry. Houdini and I wondered why I mean that was the story in. All of these books are about him. There there's there comic books fictional fictional accounts There's all sorts of things that use. Houdini assemble but none of them answered that question. Why does this guy still last? Why does he still survive? And so I thought it is a book about Harry Houdini. But in a way it's different from from everything else and so much of this book I thought was interesting because you delved into the lives of so many people whose lives have been unalterably changed and in many ways dictated by the life. In Times of Harry Houdini. Yeah Yeah and that was how I did you know that was the that was the the the goal in my mind was like I'm GonNa Talk to all of these people people you know there are people who run active websites about Harry. Houdini people who whose entire lives like you mentioned were guided by Harry Houdini. Whether it's when Harry. Houdini ran away from home and so that inspired them to run away from home or or when somebody who felt distant and and completely out of his community decided to become a magician because he saw Harry Houdini photo and and their story after story after story. Like this and I thought this is the way to get at something true. Grew because as I'm sure we'll talk about very little is true about Harry Houdini. Well let let's. Let's go to that. I mean I was struck. Druk in your book by the absolute by by the incredible number of lies that he told in his life in many ways his life was Ali'i tell everybody I was born in Appleton Wisconsin. And he wasn't right. It's not born in Appleton Wisconsin. He's born in Germany Budapest Hungary he's born in Hungary and and I kept thinking to myself. The job of writer in the job of a reporter is to seek out the truth Bruce and yet you have example after example after example you have him submitting stories to newspapers and then just running stories out and having no idea whether any of those stories submitted about this great trick that he just did yesterday in this city was was true or not what he joked. In Your Book I've written for more newspapers than anybody in America. So I WANNA find out. How did you get to the Truth Truth and Ferret through so many lies you know in in some way the lies are the truth about Harry Houdini? Because because what Harry Houdini represented was someone who wanted to create this myth. The right this legend that would last forever. That was what his whole life was about was creating the Houdini that people would never ever forget and so he came up with these stories. He came up with these myths and he did amazing. Think things do that are in there somewhere so so there is truth in there somewhere. These escapes that he did and yet there's also all of these extraordinary very wise that he created to do this and all of tells the story right. All of it tells the story of this of this immigrant. who grew up up dirt poor who ran away from home when he was twelve? Who whose father was a rabbi? Who couldn't find work? Who who just everything that that you would think is the opposite of what Harry Houdini is and how he created this life in this in this incredible story that we're still hoteling one hundred years later and so that was the truth that I was going after I also was going to try to bust some myths? I mean let's let's be honest because as you say you're always so so the fact he would tell the story about being trapped under the ice stirring an escape for an hour and he would like rise to the surface and breathe and that a little distance between the water. And the that's not that's true it's completely untrue. But it's such an interesting provocative story that comes out of his imagination that it tells something about him too so finding what's true and what's not true and then also what's true in the myth is was was so much fun. Joe Joe. I'm going to ask you to read a passage of this book because I think it's important for those who might be listening to this who maybe don't have a fascination and with this guy maybe they aren't of a certain age and when they're when you're twenty three years old you have no idea who harry. Houdini is or why he's significant. We're we're going to read this. Read this short passage and then we're going to talk about. Why is he still significant to this day? Absolutely we're closing in on one hundred years since his death and yet when a thief in Bangkok slips out of his handcuffs and alludes a dozen police officers would they call them. Houdini a baby Ian mundaring Australia. Continuously escapes a crib to the dismay and panic of her parents and the newspaper her. Houdini baby a dog keeps sleeping slipping out of the yard and creating gaining havoc in a neighbor's garden in Melbourne Florida and is similarly called. Houdini dog this is on original newspaper in San Diego des Moines Rome Amsterdam and North London. Then also call particularly troublesome pooches. Houdini whats sort of Houdini child. Do you have asks. Houdini Solutions Ltd a New Zealand company. Which makes baby safety safety devices? A harnessing Dini a bedroom. Houdini a put things in the toilet. Houdini we have the products that will keep that. Houdini of years contained and safer F C Barcelona. The most famous soccer team on earth overcomes late deficit in the game the headlines. Call Them Houdini. Donald trump gets tangled in a seemingly endless series of scandals and emerges unscathed. How does he do it? The reporters explain. He is Houdini in Missouri. A man's car flips over eight times after a fiery crash and he walks away from the wreckage unharmed. I Dunno his wife tells reporters he must be Houdini. An Alabama man on death row dodges execution seven times James. Houdini a baseball relief. Pitcher gets out of a bases loaded jam in the World Series Houdini. The Russian chess genius Sergei cargonoff can escapes from seemingly seemingly inescapable trap Houdini. Houdini is always there ready to be summoned. That's fantastic that's on page four of your book so when people are trying to say why. Am I reading a book about Harry Houdini. You basically just told them. So why do we still care about Houdini that that is the the question and I think there are. There are number of reasons for it one is I think our fascination with escape I think all of us feel it you know. And that's why he's mentioned so often. Is that the idea of being able to escape from something impossible. Whatever it is in sports politics and in anything is so powerful and this guy because of the life he lived because of the the mitzi created he he he he's still at the very edgewater. Imagination can imagine I mean in the last one hundred years. There hasn't been someone more extraordinary at escaping than Houdini is. Really ought to think about but yet that's our mind goes that's it. You know the first thing that our mind goes to when we think of escape is Dean I think the other there are other the reasons seasons but he was a master of self promotion. I mean a hundred years ahead of his time when it comes to creating eating this mythology for himself through lies but also through working the media and coming up with ingenious. How did he do that? Joe How did he work the media. Oh Oh my gosh in many many ways but you know you as you mentioned at the time especially newspapers were the only media there. This was before radio this before for certainly before television or anything else and he would write stories and newspapers a run them. I mean they. They were always looking for interesting things he was he was you know he would wine and dine reporters to Kinda give him better coverage he would get to know people he was he was very good about sending letters notes to the people and you know and is he became more famous to get a note from Houdini was very meaningful on. You couldn't wait for him to come back to town next. You could write an even bigger story on him and he was just brilliant. Brilliant at at creating attention and he would do things all the time. You know. The everybody knows about Houdini. Updike upside down straitjacket straitjacket escape. You've ever seen a photo of him doing it some. He did that for free like that was not that was not part of the show that was to get people to come to the show so so he would show up in in Times Square or or in Washington downtown or Chicago or Boston or Kansas City. You did it all over the country and and he would say. This is the first time this has ever been attempted. Someone is going to try to escape. He's going to be hanging upside down. Five stories off the ground and escape from a straitjacket get and thousands and thousands of people would come and watch and then he would end and he'd be like come to the show so he was. He was a genius promoter in many ways. I think I think the first people talk about P. T. Barnum but Houdini took it to a whole other level and you could see today. Houdini techniques for getting attention attention. Going viral are still being used today. This this guy was ahead of his time. Joe You write about a specific diffic- several specific instances one of which just seems so preposterous. That I had to ask you about it. that he he got into sort of serve later in his career probably midway through his career he would go into police stations. Yeah take his clothes off. Yeah that's right in handcuffing lake cuff him and basically challenge the cops basically basically say I can get out of this x amount of time and do it. Yeah so what possibly was the reason for that. Why did he do do this? And I just I kept reading that and I'm saying what is going on here. Yeah no it's it's incredibly bizarre everything he did if you take a back from it. It's like what what is this. I mean I think about the water torture. Cell for instance which is his most famous escape. Right he hangs upside down underwater. And he you know from it. But it's his contraption I mean everybody knows that it's not it's not like Oh we just happen to have one right here. I mean he invented it and yet people still still assassinated though. How can he get out of this thing that he built? I mean if anybody would know how to get out of it so you know early the on people would say oh he has a key. He's hiding a key and he goes. I am not hiding a key and approve it. I'll do it naked. And then suddenly he. You just saw the. Hey that works. People actually are interested in a naked guy escaping from things and so he would go to different all kinds of police stations all over the country every time he would want it to do it every town and some places there were there a couple of great stories of him going to the station and then saying okay. Let's see you escape and he starts to undress. Whoa New York did that right? Yeah I'm in New York. Keep him on. Yeah exactly so it. It was all for attention it was because those were free to. That's the other thing though. All of those escapes the show. They were cast to get attention. The guy just just lived to get attention Joe My favorite story about Houdini in the book I mean I I have two one is as you lead the book with the Jess Willard Story Boxer in Los Angeles Very Vivid Story. I don't want to give everything away but a story I'd really really love you. To tell is when he was in England and he was confronted by a reporter and investigative instigator reporter. Who was going to prove it Harry? Houdini was a fraud and I would love you just to tell that story. Yeah it's it's one of my favorite things in the book it's called the it's called the mirror offices the escape because it was a reporter for the Daily Mirror who these and I love so many things about it but what I love of most about it is. We still don't know how he did it. Exactly everybody as theories including me and you wrote about three of your theories I did. I wrote about at the most popular theories that I did some minor theories and then I had to give my own theory. How he did it but a guy from the Daily Mirror said that he had found locksmith in Birmingham who had built impossible to escape handcuffs right? They've they have these very long key and you have to turn the key key several different ways in order for it to open the lock. So you can't pick it. It's not a pickup lock. And he brought it challenge Udine who the. I didn't want anything going to do with it. And then you could tell that. Houdini was nervous. He was very when he was when he was confronted by this reporter. Yeah in in an auditorium right. He did and the hippodrome or wherever. You wasn't hippodrome. That's what he did he always. You'd say okay anybody anything to challenge me and he took the stage reporter and said I challenge you. And he's a no no all those aren't regulation cops and then he went off to another part of the stage and the guy refused to leave the stage and they eventually. Houdini had no choice. The crowd was jeering him and the guy actually made a great he yet to give them a lot of credit he said oh Mr Houdini. You're an American and I understand. Americans have nothing to fear from the British. So so do you want to represent your country. You know and Houdini was found himself trapped and he said okay. I accept the challenge but he was nervous service and he before he went out he said I cannot. Houdini was a very it was braggart news a bold guy but he said before that he goes. I can't promise you I'll get out out of these but I promise I will do my best and it was an hour long escape. Life had many many peaks and valleys. That people can read about. If if you if you what was so interesting I thought about this and I forget who today told you today. America has no no America's too impatient shore through performance. You want something different to happen every second and yet crowds were being asked when Harry. Houdini performed like this time in England. They were being asked to sit there while Harry Houdini would go into a tent right or or would go. You go behind the curtain or whatever to try to work to do everything to get out of these handcuffs is straight jacket. Yeah and so this. This was happening and I recall from your story three times. He came out yes and at one point he asked the reporter. Would you you please unlock my handcuffs. Because I'm getting hot right and I WANNA take my jacket. Yes yes and the reporter refused to do it. He said I've you've seen the cuffs locked. You've never seen them unlocked. I won't do that. And the crowd booed and that Houdini said okay enough and he reached with his mouth into his front pocket and pulled out a pen knife and and like somehow opened it and then like made a whole bunch of slashing motions and slashed the jacket. Right off the crowd. He was such a showman. You know and the crowd went crazy. But you're right. The crowd is sitting there. You imagine now for twenty minutes staring staring at nothing. There's literally nothing while a band plays. You know you're just like but but it was a different time but there's no question all the time people were in the crowd crying. They were so scared they were so nervous and he came out and everybody cheered but he still had the handcuffs on and then and then he went back in when he came out again and everybody cheered and he still had handcuffs on. I mean yeah. That's not playing today. We're not nobody. Nobody is watching that whole thing today but it would do differently today. Am You if you believe as I do that. A showman is a showman. You know somebody who can who can perform they'll find what the audience wants and that's what he was able to do. So Joe what happened in this particular in this in this particular story which is my favorite story in the book. Yeah well at the end he he does escape end. The place goes crazy and they carry him on his shoulders and he talks about you. Know what a end the end the reporter order graciously says you know Dini has has one and everybody goes crazy and and nobody knows for sure how he did it. But everybody's pretty sure that he made the whole thing off like the whole thing is is Houdini. Houdini sat up and so in other in other words. Do you believe to this day is at your best. Guess because you can't know runs sure this happened one hundred fifteen years right so you can't know for sure but is it your a best guess that it was an inside job with him in the reporter. That's why I believe I have. I have theories about how they did it with. I really fun but it's so Houdini every like this is like the thing that that you come to at the end is. Houdini was in some ways. Houdini was more or of an athlete than he was a magician. He had to win. Winning was everything that matter to him win win win. You challenged me. Nobody can keep Houdini prisoner. That was his slogan. So he's not going into something he can't win. There's no way that Harry Houdini he's not going to have some way of getting out so and later there are many stories. I don't know how true they are but when he would perform the water torture. Sal performed the milk escape. Milk can escape. Yeah where he'd go underwater same thing that the escaped literally took seconds to get out but then he would be backstage reading a newspaper Ver- way while the crowd is going crazy outside waiting for the right moment to actually come out so it feels a little bit like that Joe. Got One one more question to ask you. You write in great detail about how he died and to me. It's it's a matter of great sadness quite honestly that he probably died by getting beat up by somebody who might or might not have been been a college student right and Harry. Houdini late late in his life very late in his life now would challenge lynge people in always both physically mentally everything and he was being interviewed in Montreal. One one day when someone showed up and I can you just recount the story about what exactly happened. Yeah yeah the the guy shows up. He's doing an interview with other college students. He's older and you know he doesn't really fit the scene but Houdini seem to have known him and he says. Isn't it true. Mr Houdini that you have challenged anyone to punch you in the stomach you can withstand any challenge and Houdini kept saying. I don't WanNa talk about that. Let's doc kept saying Oh my muscles feel strong. My muscles are like he would. He didn't WanNa talk about it but the guy kept saying I've heard that's true. I've heard that's true. And Houdini finally said yes. ACID is true. I can withstand any punch and he said I'd like to punch you. I'd like to try. This and Houdini started to get up and while he was getting up the guy punched punched in the stomach as many as ten times right it wasn't just one it wasn't just want some guy who basically came in. It looked to me trying to almost assassinate Harry Houdini. It's crazy when you think about it and the craziest part is as you said. He challenged people to anything but there is no evidence at all all that he ever challenged anybody to punch him in the stomach. Like this whole thing might have been but you know at that point. Houdini probably was like. I'm sure at some point. I've challenged people you know. I'm challenged the people and everything else. Why not that? And what's most likely I think is that he was already suffering from appendicitis. That's the most likely scenario. There are those who think the punches themselves caused it. But that's not as likely that he was already suffering from it he was. He was a very stubborn guy he would not go to the Dr and then after he got punched in the stomach he was definitely not going to go to the doctor. He's not GonNa let anybody like all. Some kid was on with the show on with the show and it was on with the show. Oh all the way to Detroit when he collapsed on the stage tried again collapsed again on the stage finally got taken to the hospital and they were able to remove his appendix index and would've saved his life done it earlier but by that point the poison had already seeped into his body and he died five days later on Halloween Halloween. Wean Nine Thousand Nine Hundred Nineteen Twenty six joe my last question about this. I am very very curious as a writer and you were writing about a subject. That is fascinating to you. But it's totally totally out of your Bailey completely. You know year sports writer and you go delve into this bizarre world of magic. So what did you. What did you learn about what you learn about yourself during this process? It's a it's a great question because there's no crossover between magic and sports being sports writer as you know and you've done this fantastic. If you drop a story on me this minute I would would at least know who to call okay. Maybe this person knows this person you build up that I didn't know anybody magic. Nobody literally zero people and and to the point where the David Copperfield. Who who is a prominent part of this thing? I wrote to David Copperfield through the contact US page on on his on his on his website and and all the other options were like. I've lost my ticket or I can't make clicked other other and then asked him if I could come and so I had no way of doing it. But here's what I found out about myself and this is absolutely true. I loved it I so Oh loved being back on the highwire. There's not to say that what we do is is is is easy because it's not but after a while you build up enough sources you build up enough reputation. Maybe and and you can usually sort of get your way in anywhere right here. I was a nobody just a complete. Nobody starting to try to do this story. You've probably the vast majority of people who you talked to didn't know who you know who I was and they and I and it's this kind of book. I needed them to trust me. I didn't just need to talk them. I needed them to trust me so they would tell me things and and I was so much fun I loved it so much which I did not know that comes through in the book through honestly the joy of the task. Yeah it isn't like you write some a lot of times you can tell. The person is doing a workmanlike. Sure job but it you can tell you went to so many weird places places this crazy to talk to people and to try to seek people out in people's lives have been changed in that. I really had a lot of admiration for you about that because because you had to go down so many rabbit holes always you know Joe Pas. Nancy will end with this. You are a clevelander and you had a tweet the other day about how you really want to trust the browns. You really want to trust Freddie Kitchens but oh my God can I do it as an objective human being and I'm not that's not what you tweeted but it's basically that so so at this point halfway through this season that was supposed to be at least borderline playoff season that has resulted. She didn't two wins by Halloween. What do you think I do not think very much of what's going on in Cleveland? I you know I I think i. I've seen you write some stuff like this. It was I believe there was. The expectations did not match what was real. You know I mean there was somebody. I think Yahoo. Who wrote you know? He did like the ten the ten fans the fan groups that are going to suffer the most this year and he did the ten of them and it didn't have the browns in. There had to be the first time in twenty years at the Cleveland. Browns were one of the ten longest suffering fans or most suffering fans or whatever that that thing was and I actually tweeted to him like. Are you kidding me. And he's like no the browns. The browns are going to be good. I'm like wow. That's that's bold. Did you know this. This team has proven to not know what it's doing for a very long time and you know they have the pieces. I mean there are I mean. I don't know if they have all the pieces. I don't think that's the case but no all kinds of playmakers and and and bite jumped the gun on how good Baker Mayfield is is right that that was a huge air went with a head coach. Who certainly did some wonderful things last year as a coordinator for the first time in his career but no coaching experience? No head coaching experience. No no very limited coordinator experience so that happens and and then of course injuries are injuries and they happen. Everybody and suddenly you look around. This team is not very good and I don't know that anybody has any idea and they're playing incredibly sloppy right. I mean that's the bad thing I mean. You turn overs in penalties. I I mean that's that's exactly what you don't do and then you don't have coach. Go around telling people. I don't coach penalties. We we know that you've you clearly don't coach how to prevent them. That's that's a big issue so for me. This is so much it's fun because as you know I mean I've been a sports writer for very long time and we work together at sports illustrated and we've done a lot of things. I've written a lot of football but now I have have this opportunity to write what it's like to be a fan right of a team. That's not and hasn't been good for a long time and it's really fun and I. I realized that experienced doesn't not many people right about that. I mean fans do but I mean not many not many people right like a like a weekly diary the way I do about the browns and it's fun to sort of you know even more than I would normally live and die a little bit with it so that I can sort of right about what the experience appearances like and the experience right now is i. I don't think these guys know what they're doing and look out below. Here's one thing that I would that I would say this to me. The first person who ever said this to me was Ken Anderson of the Cincinnati shores. And he said you're never as good as you look when you're winning every week. Yeah you're never as bad as you look when you're losing absolute right and I think that is everything about the Cleveland. Browns grounds. The thing I told people at the beginning of the year and the reason I did not pick him for the playoffs. Is that talent wise. They're starting team. One through twenty two was one of the best twelve Talent groups in football. So you say well you know. Then that's a playoff team but everything else about this team. This organization at this time was was unprepared not that they didn't try to prepare but if the NFL gives you a schedule where in week two WHO. You're on Monday night football in week three year on Sunday. Night in Cleveland. In what you know good friend of mine is from Cleveland. CLEVELAND SAID IS THE BIGGEST GAME in Cleveland since we came back right nineteen thousand nine hundred nine. No doubt okay. You go from the emotion on Monday night too short week you playing on Sunday night. There's Al Michaels and Chris Collins. Yes then two weeks later. You're on Monday night football again. Yeah in San Francisco against is a surprisingly good team. Yes and so this is a this is a franchise that for twenty years has been playing Sunday afternoon at one o'clock with nobody watching right and the sixth broadcast team for CBS. Do in the game. Yes and now. What is it like every week when first of all you've got Nansen Tony Romo Roma Right? And then you've got the Monday night guys. And then you've got collins worth and michaels and so time after time every single time that you try to have just a normal existence or wait a second. There's somebody wants to come in and do a half hour Mike. Tharika wants to do a half hour our with Baker Mayfield and this guy wants this and this guy wants that and all of what I said at the beginning of the year is that the browns have not arrived yet. They're being treated like a team. That has arrived yes and I think a lot of teams probably would be fairly good at handling that except no-one no one on that team. With the exception I would say of Dimitrius Harris the backup tight end mortgage Brunette the safety. They've played deep game games into the January eighteen. You're right no one else of the fifty. Three guys on that team ever has the head. Coach has never coached that even in January January. He's never been a head coach right so I look at all these things and I just said it's a perfect storm designed for them to be seven and nine or eight. which doc I know everybody is going to say Oh my God? That's not progress. Yes it is progress. Yeah you know if you get used to if you get calloused by the the by the bigness. You'll be okay next year. It's just in my opinion. I said this to good friend of mine from Cleveland. The only thing I would say. Just don't overreact. Yeah just don't because you're gonNA wake up at the end of this season depressed. Say I'd still. You'll rather have this team than the Derek Anderson. Her Breezy Quintin. Oh absolutely and I would agree with every bit of that including to the point where I think if they can get eight seven and nine if they can play a second half of the season where they go five and two or four and yeah. Yeah I think I think it's a real progress. I they they have had a tough schedule. Your point is one hundred percent right not only to have a first year head coach but ever first year coach. With this kind of expectation dictation put on them. These kinds of circumstances put on. They've not lived up to that they've not handled it and you can see that a lot of it is is overreaction. A lot out of it is trying to do too much so I don't think that's the issue. I think the bigger issue to me has been the lack of improvement as the season has gone because you go through with one time two times three times. You have a bye week and and then you lay an egg like that in New England where you know you match up and can't come close because you're so outcoached and out. I think ought to be interesting to see Joe in the second half of the season where you get the bengals twice. Yeah steelers twice yeah. We're you've got where you've got and a lot of teams that you've got a chance to win these games right every week. And that's why I think if they end up. Worse than eight nate. or or let's say worse than seven nine which I don't think they will if they end up worse than that then. It's time to worry but I don't I you could. I could it just see this coming. I'm not saying that I could totally see too in five coming but I can see a lot of this coming and I think my only advice to people love the browns is just just. Don't overreacting this right. I didn't I think there are two big questions. And we'll find out when they are because they're playing Denver this week when they're playing teams that they definitely only match up with you week after week. One is is Freddie. Kitchens advancing as a coach because as of right now he's he looks overmatched. All the time and the two honestly is who's Baker Mayfield. I mean I think you know it is. It is really a disjointed experience to watch Baker Mayfield struggle on the field and then watch ten commercials with Baker Mayfield in them and yeah you experience. Good it does. And he's great But what would you know what's going to happen on the field with Baker Mayfield and and I think he has been put unfair position as they all have the NFL and this is what it's about. They played incredibly tough schedule under a huge Mike microscope that they did not necessarily put their they they were running around for the most part telling the only people that were going to the Super Bowl. It's everybody else that was saying that about them so they were put in this situation. They had to live up to it. They have not lived up to it. But now we're going to find out what this team mm-hmm is really about. Joe Poznansky the life and afterlife of Harry. Houdini from avid reader press. I'm I'm a huge fan of yours and I'm a huge fan of this book. I very very strongly recommended. And by the way it's coming coming up the holiday shopping season this is GonNa look so beautiful under the tree. For one specific reason the covers allred. It is very nice very nice nice but anyway joe thanks a lot for coming over and joining me thank you my thanks John. Harbaugh Aaron Jones owns and Joe Poznansky. Now that was a wide variety of podcasting right there but anyway I really. I love the Houdini Book. I strongly recommend it. I know we're I don't mean to just chill for Joe Poznansky but I mean if you like a good story you're GonNa love this book on. Houdini I really
Magician Criss Angel, Last Dance Review, Draft Recap + Billy Football Is Living The Plot To Spiderman
"On today's part of my take we have last dance episodes three and four review off the top. We have the NFL draft great weekend for Sports. We have the mind Freak Criss Angel Awesome interview. Something a little different so Chris Angel you probably remember him for being the mind freak Done a million shows had a hit show as well. He's a magician. He's one of the greatest. Magicians of all time. Magicians Hall of fame. Which we learn about is actually a thing. So that's great. We have mount flush more of chores. And then billy football our son I don't know what he's doing now. But it's fucking funny. He's pretty much just living with a bunch of feral cats trying to get them. I think he's trying to live the plot to spiderman but with cats well he's done Zoe's Berserk Walker and every negative thing. That happens to him as he tries to do. Some research on and figure out why. It's actually a good thing that it's happening to them. So right. I mean prosper positively. Yeah great mindset for from our son Billy so very funny he tells us about toxic. Myo says or something. I don't even fucking I was like. He's crazy but it's very funny Were brought to you before we do all of that by the cash APP. It is the greatest APP ever created. That's a quote that you can put on the movie poster by me when they do the the movie of the cash APP because it is the easiest place to send money to your friends. And it's the safest the number one APP for social distancing. Because you don't have to be with people you don't have to hand over cash you don't have to stay face to face coughing on people spreading the virus. Nope you can do it with your phone. Send money received money all through the cash shop. It is super super easy links directly to your bank account. There has never been an easier APP. So I'm just throwing superlatives on superlatives on superlatives for the cash up. But that's because I love him so much. I love the cash after also giving away free subscriptions to part of my take twitch channel so you can comment in them became for. Doug's at nine PM Tonight. Cash apple probably be. They're giving away some more subscriptions so tune in and of course when you download the cash APP and enter the Referral Code Barstool. You'll receive ten dollars and you will also have ten dollars be given to the ASPCA. So you're helping people helping animals helping. Billy's feral cats all with the cash APP. Download the cash APP from the APP store. Google play store today and get involved with our friends from the cash. Outta okay. Let's go third an old part of my take presented by the cash APP. Go download it right now. Use Code Barstool. You get ten dollars for free ten dollars to the ASPCA. Today is Monday. April twenty sixth seventh twenty seventh. The last dance three and four review. I'd say my only critique so far is that I wish we had one hundred hours this documentary because it so fucking good and there's so many side stories that I want them to go even deeper on but man. Was it awesome? Yeah I need there to be you. Remember that. Show twenty four. There should be back to back seasons of twenty four about Dennis Rodman's experienced in Las Vegas. Where he just takes a vacation Phil. I was good while Scotty was gone. Now you understand. I need to go blow off steam and just get fucking balls to the Wall Hammer in Vegas so so let's do Chronological the the thing is i. I wish was like every night. And they put him up. Because it feels like when you watch two episodes you know you you leave with whatever was last put the Dennis Rodman episode episode. Three was unbelievable. So we'll start there I Love Dennis. Rodman I've always loved Dennis. Rodman he he made rebounding cool he made rebounding like seemed like a sexy thing. He was so fucking incredible. That scene. I know there's a million scenes it will go over but the scene that I loved the most out of episode three when he was explaining the art of rebounding. And how the ball would go off in. Like Larry Bird shot would spin this way and Michael Jordan shot would spend this way and you're like Holy Shit like this guy spent so many hours trying to figure out exactly where to be in the right position any never quit and the the craziest thing about Rodman he won seven straight rebounding titles. He like most of them. Were even close so I went back and I looked it up. He had There was a year where he had so he he in ninety two was when he started winning seven in a row he had eighteen points seven rebounds game which is just insane to begin with but the second place person that fifteen point five. The next year eighteen point three shack was second with thirteen point. Nine so robin had four over four rebounds more than the second place person in the League. The year after that seventeen point three thirteen point two was second sixteen point eight twelve point five so he basically not only dominated the league and rebounding for seven straight years it was on such a elevated level compared to everyone else he was just all time. Great Yeah I if you were to just guess off the top of your head in his best game how many rebounds do you think there's Robin head? I think you had one where he had like thirty right. He had thirty four in ninety two which is insane about and you know for all the people that are like this. Robbins a Weirdo. That's true. Does Ron Rodman should not be a role model. Probably also true. I actually do think that Dennis Rodman is role model in a weird way in that. If you can figure out something that you're the best at it doesn't matter what. Weird little niche category. It is in life if there's one thing that you're better than everybody else that are more focused on steer into that and and get really really good at that and be known as the best ever do that and you'll be extremely successful and so in that in that last poll season he had sixteen games where he had twenty plus rebounds. I mean that's just stupid. That's stupid but he. I think the reason why it all worked was he like legendary stories about Dennis Rodman. He would play a full game. Then he would be you know in the gym lifting for an hour and a half and and it's not like a man he laughed. I guy in last guy out because we all know Dennis Rodman Party. We saw that it was more than he just had a motor. That didn't quit. He had like endless energy. And you saw when he's diving into the stands or diving forever loose ball. And then you get the human side which I. I don't want to go into because I'm sure every podcasts can do like. Could you imagine if this happened in twenty twenty but Dennis Rodman in twenty twenty would be a phenomenal watch? Because what everyone knows what. Everyone's openly talks about with like mental health. And all kinds of things like Dennis. Rodman back then was a Weirdo. Who is unbelievable rebounding era? I mean that was kind of what he was in a party boy. But it's The whole like Phil Jackson. Let him take a vacation. We'll get into Phil but like understanding what you needed out of Dennis Rodman and how to pull the right. You know levers when they need to be pulled was part of the genus Phil Jackson part of the genius of Michael Jordan and part of the genius of Dennis Rodman being able to lock in. Yeah he was definitely not. I went in last night. He was last one in but also last one out probably so he was a night owl. He didn't show up to the to the stadium to like the very very last minute before games are very very last minute before practice. But he was. He was awesome at what he did. I liked how phil gave himself a little bit of credit and was like you know. I recognized Dennis through my training in native American spiritual healing that he was unusual as he gives credited to growing up next to a native American reservation for recognizing the fact that the guy that shows up with pink hair like nose rings earrings. He's fucking Carmen Electra. Thirty minutes before a game the guy that just needs to get out of town and blow off steam in Vegas. That guy's unusual and I owe that to my training as a shaman. Yeah Yeah and he. There was a famous like when when Kraus was bringing in this is also something to cross his credit because I know he is the villain and rightfully so but he you know he brought him in. He had him talk to Phil Jackson. You had them. Apologize Scotty. Pippin and Michael Jordan. And make sure that like okay. Is this what we WANNA do after they lost to the magic because they didn't have the right size and Dennis Rodman fit in perfectly for those last three Bull Championship runs? And it's credits Jerry. Krause for thinking outside the box being like okay. I have a guy who's pretty combustible who could be a great like locker room guy so let's let's put put he brings something we do not have and figuring out a way to get it done. Do you think there's a small element of Jerry Krause bringing Dennis Rodman end? Because he thought that it might blow everything up. Well no there's so so I read a quote before Tonight that was very funny. It was it was the Krause Rodman Pippen. Mj Phil Jackson meeting before they signed. Rodman and krause asked Dennis Rodman like wh why did why did you not get along with your other? Gems and Robin was like 'cause they wanna be my friend and Krause said I don't WanNA be your friend. I'm fifty six year thirty four. What the fuck do I need to be your friend for? You're sitting here with green hair and you got earings up your ass. We have nothing in common. I'll leave you alone. Cranston credit's Jerry. Krause like that's the kind of things that's from From the blood on the horns along strange writer. Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls. That's a book and that's like that is credits Jerry. Krause to being like. Hey I will leave you alone. I will let you be Dennis Rodman and credit to Phil Jackson. Be Like you're weird you're different. We'll let you go to Vegas for forty hours and bang out Carmen Electra. Who by the way still got pretty good? Pretty good helps you got what forty five fifty doesn't matter doesn't matter better. It's like her and Julia. Louis Dreyfuss look fifty times better now than they did at that exact same like nineteen ninety two the two of them together. I don't know what's happening with modern medicine but I'm very excited to live in the year. Twenty forty this is this documentary is going to give us the all all five like anti-age team because between bj Armstrong MJ's mom and Carmen Electra. We've had three people who were arrested. Horace grant a little bit bigger. But Yeah Yeah. He's we'll get to him but he also looks pretty young too and they're they're all in the like Holy Shit. I remember you from the nineties and you still look like this. Yeah so Carmen Electra. Yeah she meant a lot to a lot of people in the nineties. Let's just say that. Yes for sure. If I'd won bone to pick with this documentary so far at least in the last two episodes jumped around chronologically a little bit like you have to take thirty seconds to to find your footing. Sometimes like wait. Are we in one thousand nine hundred to nine hundred ninety eight? Where are we right now? And you just have to like look at. Who's on the roster to figure that stuff out because it does go back and forth to being like okay. This is the last dance. Await playing against the Lakers in the finals. Can I I also have one take? That's been burned me up for a of years. I don't think I've ever said it publicly. Delay Up to Michael Jordan had in the finals against the Lakers where he jumps in the air and switches hands completely unnecessary to do that. It's a cool looking highlight. He didn't need to do that he could. He could have just done a finger on his right in a switch to his left hand because it looks it look cool and to his credit ended up being one of the greatest looking plays an NBA history. Totally unnecessary that. My Dad gave me that. Take a while ago and I'm going to carry on his tradition and bear that Torch Forum Speaking of iconic moments the the shot against Elo. Who Ron Harper? I love him like. There's something about this documentary has done better than any. Other documentary is like. Maybe it's just. The swears put feels like everyone's being very very honest. 'cause enough time has passed where it's like who cares. It's you know twenty thirty years ago. And all these like old grudges are still there. And you can see 'em and they're fantastic to see on everyone's face but Ron Harper being like. Yeah Fuck Greg. You're like why the hell did we have him on? Mj But yellow collapsing. Like dying in a heap. After Jay shot I think takes that shot from All TIME TO CONIC. Because if you google cradle he played fifteen years in the NBA. And all you see him just crumpled down on the ground and then how about the reporter getting that Interview Yeah. The interview right after was all time. Mj just being like fuck all you haters which you know the there's something something raw to it that it just. I don't WanNa do the like. Oh man the NBA. Soft now. Because I don't think the NBA soft now. But there was something about like seeing these stories and seeing this hate the just get you so pumped up. Yeah no it was great like seeing. How Jordan treated those Those pissing teams and how the pissing seems their game. Plan was just like straight up. Beat the fuck out of Michael Jordan. Whenever he's around you like. That's they were their public with saying so right now. If you were to have a playoff series where a team were to treat Lebron James like that and just beat the shit out of them and then say it publicly. You can better believe that Adam silver would be on the phone with the referees putting some some like special rules in for the next same. Hey Watch this guy. Watch this guy. It would be national news. It'd be a big story but back then it was like. Hey that's just the way that this game is. You're allowed to be somebody did you. Did you see the clip? I posted of when Bill Empire in the eighty nine. I don't know why they put it in there. But pill empire elbowed Scottie Pippen and knocked him out of game six eighty nine. Enjoy Crawford literally was pulling him off. The court like dragging Amati pivot was dead on the ground and Joey Crawford grabbed him by the legs so play could keep going on the rest. Didn't give either. It was crazy. I I kinda I liked that but I would never want to actually play in that sport. No and so. So the old grudges. We had four. I feel like this should be a counter that we do every single Monday while this documentary goes like who did hooted. Mj like crush in in the course of the documentary so we had four by my count. One was somewhat harmless. Put THE BILL. Cartwright when he was talking about the triangle offense and basically was like the everyone who's going to touch the ball and but I don't want bill cartwright touching the ball with five seconds left on the clock and I think MJ's quote was something like It's supposed to be equal opportunity. That's just fucking bullshit so that was great car. Sitting there with his family being played with J just like bricks of shot with with one second left of the shock clock at the end. Who is he talking to on the airplane when he was like? This guy's Bro. Yeah your mom and dad are watching us. Guess What Your Son's alcoholic if you're dating scattered Braille cheating on you because he stays up late at night and the way that he was saying it like it sounded funny. But at the time like yeah. He's kind of addicted. Oh I'm sure we'll get some more. Mj Scotty Brody was a famous relationship of MJ. Just basically wearing him down mentally like in pushing him pushing pushing him. I wonder if Scotty Brielle got a text from whoever he was dating in that you know in ninety eight like Yo what was that. Was that okay. Now that makes sense the only one that noticed that in in the late nineties. Everyone looked like they were forty two. It didn't matter if you're twenty. Five years older like sixty sold everyone was forty two also just watching them like arrived to the airplane in those in regular like fifteen passenger vans that we would be in like what is going on is NBA team. So those are two and then the other two were Scottie Pippen for the migraine game. Mj Still Bullshit about that. He doesn't Laureus that Homeless Dude. He doesn't believe it to the point. That if you've ever read Jordan rules a great book. Everyone should read it if they if they're interested in this stuff. He joked in it about scotties headaches. He called them headaches. Nydia basically just cloud on them for the headaches and you can tell even though he went six championships with this guy. He's like yeah. Fuck that Scotties Week. Yeah he's like he had a migraine. I have to say or whatever which which I'm told is a real thing. He definitely. That migraine is a real medical issue. Right now he thinks if you have a Migraine your pussy in the Bulls got smoked in that game. So but it's like I honestly think the MJ pippen relationship is so fascinating. Because I know that Michael Jordan knows like deep down the Scottie. Pippen was all time player needed him every bit for all these championships put. He has that one the Migraine game and of course the famous didn't come in for for the coup coach shot when MD playing baseball. And I think there's a part of Michael Jordan who always look at Scotty and be like will chips are down. You're just week I can carry you but you won't. You won't do it. I think what we saw with the second episode tonight where they ended up getting over that Hump and winning the NBA title Jordan only realized the value of teamwork when he realized that teamwork could make him look better so like now he. He'll say we gotta do certain things and team oriented way but really to drive that home in through into his own head he had to realize that teamwork selfishly would make him a better player to. Yes although that one was a little weird. Because I'm pretty sure and I'M GONNA look it up right now but I'm pretty sure. Michael Jordan averaged eleven assists in that in that laker series. So to be like oh he just learned how to pass in the fourth quarter. John paxson against the Lakers. Like that seems a little. You had to frame it anyway but he definitely did become more of a team player as its Crayon and the only reason that he became over player was because he realized that he could have a bigger legacy and be a greater player if he wasn't so selfish all the time absolutely and I mean the the thing is what I meant by like. I wish there was a million documentaries because texts winner. Who's an all time basketball mind? You know? Having the triangle offense kind of revolutionize and how Doug Collins like that's Collins and more around the triangle offense. Okay you're gone and Jerry Krause to to Jerry. Krause his credit he. He also grudge guy. He didn't go to. Mj's hall of fame induction because winter wasn't inducted into the hall of fame yet. That's why he didn't go but that was why he he's. He steadfastly was like I will not step into the Best Hall of Fame Until Tex. Winter is in there. So he's a grudge guy. So so the last I had and it's the best by far Michael Jordan has never hated anyone as much as he hates. Isaiah Thomas and it's fucking awesome to watch how much he still holds onto it to this day when he was like when when when when the director is showing him the The the video of Isaiah's excuse for walking off the court and MJ's like whatever he says he's an asshole like he's an asshole. What half agent. Yeah I know what happened? I remember being there no matter what he says. In retrospect he just didn't shake my hand because he's addicted and that's why I mean he actually nailed Isaiah Thomas Isaiah. Thomas is a world-class Prick. I don't think that you'll find people getting his back on anything but yeah he is going back through history and changing things up to make himself look better. Yeah they didn't want to shake their hands. Which I mean I respect the bad boy pistons of that era for being so committed to the bad boy lifestyle that they're like you know what we're GONNA be bitches to the end and we're just GONNA run off the court not shake your hand that's fine. I like that just own it in all time. What if so Isaiah? Thomas was basically has every accolade he was. I think he won a state championship. He won In Illinois he wants he won a college obviously with Indiana he won the NCAA title. He won two titles in the NBA. He does not have a gold medal. Because Michael Jordan said he would not play on the dream. Team if is as Thomas was on the Dream Team With with Isaiah Thomas's coach. Chuck Daly so an all time. What if if Isaiah Thomas and it probably wouldn't have changed anything but if Zia Thomas Shakes hands and is like hey? Mj Like passing the torch. Does he get on the Dream Team. 'cause he was very serving. I think I yeah. I think that Jordan absolutely kept him off the dream. Team for that reason. If you're if you're gonNA spend on though they probably saved thousands of lives in. Detroit by not shaking hands afterwards and then passing off the flu or whatever to them like. I want to actually go back in time and see what Jordan was saying to himself in the mirror during the flu game. I'm sure they'll address the flu game. Depth later on in the series was Jordan as hard on himself as he was on Scottie. Pippen like would you like join us you little bitch ass pussy. Don't stop shitting during. Stop shitting well. I the the Dream Team stops can be fascinating too. Because I'm pretty sure that also is when Jordan realize Scottie. Pippen was incredible. Because he was like. Holy Shit Scottie. Pippen's better than everyone here but The Isaiah stuff just cracks me up because M J just his hatred is so goddamn deform and it's it's fantastic to watch because it was like the it makes it seem like when when Kevin Durant or James Harden un-filed lows his team on instagram. And we do this league. How about Michael Jordan? Literally saying Isaiah. Thomas is not allowed on the Dream Team when he was one of the top twelve players. You know we're GonNa Roll Christian later you understand it. It's like this league. This leak ultimate this league also like how they call. Dennis Rodman the fuck up person. Yes he's the guy that you bring him just to fuck shit up on defense that's a great description and you need someone that can just destroy somebody else's game plan. Yes he was. He was the ultimate passed and You know Draymond Green. I think better than dry well different than green because draymond obviously has better offense but like one can rebound like Dennis Rodman. So Hey I was. I did get a few tweets. People were saying that you are the Dennis Rodman of the podcast because he asked for forty eight hours off and a vacation Would you like to ask for forty eight hours off because we can give you the next forty eight hours off? Wait no we can give you the next forty hours off sure. Yeah I mean if seeing what it did for him. I think I could be a big a big help and I think Gore hopefully Phil Jackson's like demeanor towards the whole situation opened up your eyes to the values of vacations and time off for now. Clear something up for me because when they went to go get Dennis Rodman after the forty eight hours when he wasn't back in time Jordan went to his apartment in Chicago to get them out like. Outta bed right. He didn't go to Vegas. That was vague. Although it seemed like they were on the road so I couldn't quite figure out the time line there. If he had come back it seemed like he came back. Also just love. How Robin just? It's so weird watching Pro Professional Basketball player like now. Obviously then it was totally normal because it was Dennis Rodman but just walk out of a game with a Miller lite their hand and a beer in their hand and just like. I'm just I'm hanging out yet. How how did the beer got on a motorcycle without a helmet and then sped off? And they're like that's classic Rodman. It's Chuck Taylors. Two honorees drives his motorcycle into a stop. Sign and Phil Jackson's like I knew the one time I took peyote out in the high desert that this man. He was unusual. We should mention Phil. I feel like this did some just deserve. Because you know sometimes people will say Phil Jackson's overrated which is Kinda ridiculous argument to make it because he obviously had. Mj and Scottie and then had Kobe and Shaq and then cobaine POW. But what keeping these guys together? That's always been my biggest argument for Phil Jackson is. How many times did you see Teams win or not even teams win but like a bunch of different personalities and trying to get them all on the same page and he's clearly the master of that and figuring out a way to tap into every single guy and figure out exactly how it works and what makes them tick and getting the most out of them. So I feel like this entire episode or episodes in a row vindicated phil. What she didn't need it but there is that lazy argument that he is overrated because he had such great tau. It's definitely easier to be a coach on a team like that and win a championship. But it's extremely hard to be a coach not seem like that and put together seven consecutive seasons of no letdowns whatsoever. You know that's tough to do when you have all these great players. And the fact that they had Jordan Scottie. Pippen and Dennis Rodman the entire time playing as probably three out of the top ten defenders in the League for that entire time. Spent like that shows you how hard they were working all the time. That's almost impossible to do. It's also crazy just to say Phil Jackson has been part of thirteen championship teams in the NBA. That's insane to the knows how to pick six with the Bulls five with the Lakers. Yeah my recounting. That right. Yeah I am that's insane. That's so again. It's a stupid argument. People sometimes make it. I always find it silly but it was great. Seeing you know Phil starting as a coach at the very very bottom then like holy shit. What was the story about The mayor shooting a Raff in Puerto Rico and in one of their games. The mayor was pissed that threw up so he shot him to be fair. He shot him in the lower leg. So it's not like he almost killed them or whatever and so the punishment was. You can't go to any more home games that year. Yes a wake up. That's fine Fulfil Jackson is awesome coach. And I'm glad that he is getting a little bit of credit here you because especially because he did kind of hurt his legacy with everything with the Knicks and he became a little. Bit of a joke The last few years paycheck. Yeah no use cash paycheck but going back in time here and just seeing all the stuff you forget how how quickly recency bias takes over for everything and you know what I mean and so. I'm sure there's people who are like Phil Jackson. Oh yeah he ruined the next. Even the next have been ruined for a long time. I've confession to make. I don't understand what a triangle offenses. Maybe it's like the most easy thing to explain possible. I don't know what to me. It's just like it might as well be magic. Well I mean they. They did a decent job of explaining it puts basically setting it up on one side of the court so everyone gets touches and then you can move off of that like you got your saw and take your Taco in Spanish football soccer. Yeah it's touching in and out and everyone getting different looks and then and then You know swinging the ball. I mean it's it would be interesting to see If teams you know like if Lebron ran it would look like. I don't know if he's ever been in. I mean he's probably run principles of it. That's the thing is like there's probably principles of it in a lot of things But it will be interesting to watch him run like true triangle offense and just dominate people. There's something nice about Lebron. Do you think that basketball players in the early nineties late eighties got sweatier faster than they do? Now is I think there was just not as good of air conditioning. Ever and deodorant technology had had an evolved fabric thing about fabric. Yeah there are probably wearing like those heavy cotton yes yes building Only last thing I had was horace. Grant had the light of the night when he said the Pistons. Walking off the court in the Bulls sweep of the Pistons. He called him straight up bitches while wearing an NBA cares polo. And that was fantastic. I love it so far. That's the quote of the entire series. So far yes. Ron Harper went from earlier in the night. That which Ron Harper doing these days does he braces. Basketball coach is doing well in all these guys. I don't think Ron Harper's I mean obviously horse grants nephew. Jerry and grant played for the Bulls. Little Bit Scottie. Pippen son is in college. I'm trying to think there's another one. I think Dennis Rodman's kid might be there like all these guys have kids. Now that are in college so again. It feels like it was the right time to do this. Because enough time has passed forever can speak very freely. You couldn't imagine this ten years after this all happened because a lot of these guys were still you know either in the League circles or whatever. They might be doing right now. It's like everything's kind of in the past distant past. We can speak freely. We can say faulk and it's awesome. Mike Wilbon saying fuck felt like I was. I was watching something. I shouldn't be watching that. That like hit me different. Hearing him just left bomb. I also enjoy watching Michael Jordan on the screen and then noticing background. How high that. That glass of liquor that he has is because we tell it'll tell you what kind of quote you're about to get from if you're going to get the like there's a me in team there's an I in win or whatever that quote was As it gets a little bit lower and has as is get like a little bit more yellow. I don't know what's up. This is he might have some sort of kidney or liver thing going on. You might think I think he likes to drink. I think he likes to drink a lot. That's fine same. I think he likes to drink a lot Cautionary tale carefully. As if you drink too much you might end up like Mike. No careful kids if you are addicted to winning it. Everything's someday you're going to have to become the best drinker true. Yeah and there you go Okay let's talk some draft. The draft finished rounds two and three on Friday rounds four through seven Saturday. I think the biggest story that we have to start with. Besides the teams itself is Friday night. Roger Goodell decided to either take molly or was it an edible or just got way too drunk but it was it was basically an SNL skit where we watched someone try to learn how to have a personality through the course of the night when he went to his comfortable chair. That wasn't comfortable at all when he was like basically laying down in front of us when he was hugging the screens because he was rolling on molly when he was screwing up words left and right the whole thing couldn't take eyes off it and I loved it not because it made him look human but the opposite it was great to watch. A robot tried to be human and convince us that he knew like human emotions when he was like everyone out. There is asking me Roger how far down in that Eminem Jarrah and then he pulls out the imminent jar. He's like look I've eaten several EMINEM's I'm a normal person just like you kind of sweet tooth. I'M GONNA disagree with you about the chair. Though that share look very comfortable looked like a rich person's idea of a comfortable chair but once you get a good ask roof going in one of those seats it actually is pretty nice so I'll give them that. It was funny watching him kind of sink lower and lower. I think he's just drunk on one. I am a little bit concerned about our commission and he is your commitment to you have to respect the office. I think that I don't think that Roger Goodell has any friends. I don't think that a person with that Personality Yeah like why? Is this a new news breaking because usually when you're that rich you have at least people that'll hang out with you and like he's got no he? Does I think he has like business partners that he sees occasionally like the owners but just like going off personality. I don't I want to volunteer to be his friend because I feel bad for him. Feel like he's the biggest nerd in the entire world with zero personality. Like Jason Witten if he hit him in the head with the frying pan like I feel bad for Roger Goodell. It's almost like pity from me. That's soft that soft. I WANNA I WANNA. She's all that Roger Goodell like Erin. Tournament too Hot Chick. You feel bad for the next forty million dollars. Yeah forty million dollars. A year and his way of being relatable is is eating M. and M.'S. And sitting in his chair while it might have looked comfortable he wasn't sitting comfortably in it. He was sitting upright being like look at me now. I'm in my comfortable chair. Lift humans so he may thirty million dollars a year still doesn't buy Bros he would trade it off for some homeys. I loved I loved because it was so different. And because we've got to watch Roger Goodell the entire night. It was actually fascinating to watch. It kept me tuned. In 'cause you know how the draft goes where the first round is very interesting. Because it's everyone you've seen in known and and then the second round a little bit the same where it's like. Is that you household name so to speak. Then they get to the third round and third round on its rapid fire. They're never caught up. They're trying to interview people and teams are picking like picks in the and then like six picks later. They're in they're talking about the guy that was picked so just becomes chaos but for some reason like Friday night it was just it was fireside chats with Raj just sitting there welcoming us into you know welcoming. He welcomed us into his home and we sat there and we tried to speak to him like human beings and we didn't get anywhere but it was at least somewhat entertaining to almost like an alien showing up to your draft and being like. Hey guys let's let's see if we can Find Common Ground here. Eminem know those those like fake posts on twitter about like somebody that sits down and makes a computer watch every episode of parks and REC. And then it comes up with a script for new pilot from it. That's like what Roger Goodell was like. It's like if aliens watched what a rich person acted like trying to relate to young people and then recorded that and then spat out three nights worth of content. You get what Rogers do and he I I'm also thinking. That might not have actually been his house because that place looked a little too lived in. I feel like he just lives in a padded cell and Jerry. Jones has his keen. Let's about every morning for breakfast. I don't think Roger Goodell is cool enough to have six. Tv's all that would grain Zeiss leather. Couches I something struck me as being like a little too on the nose. I'm staying woke on that I do think though that the format of this draft was Was much better. I think than I don't know that they can go back to the old format of drafting it because this is so much cooler in prospects in their living room having it like bounce all over the place not one formal sound stage. Anywhere is pretty sweet. It's if they can do a blend if they could do a hybrid. It would be perfect. I would want the first round live with people in the draftees in in the spot because the green room things always great if guy slides also always loved the booing fans and and the people like the super fans that go to drafts are special breed of NFL fans that we need to give them their front and center moment where they can be inner city dressed to the nines in the middle of April screaming and yelling at a twenty two year old that they probably didn't even watch any Tapan so that needs to keep happening. But I agree with you. Like if we could do rounds. Four through seven where everyone is remote and you can see into the room like living rooms of all the coaches and GM's that was fascinating. I found myself being interested. You know seeing what these digital war rooms look like and seeing what everyone's set up is so I thought the draft did a great job in it also again made us feel normal for a few days in a row where like. Hey there's something new that's happening on TV and we can actually tune in here. Yeah I was also a big fan of bill dog. That really's got Friday night going big time and I think we have to call Him Jack. Right because bill wanted to call him Jack. He's very clear on that. I Guess Linda really pressed for Nike. But every time. She calls them Nike Bills. Just for the record I. I wanted to seem to be Jack. So He is now Jack in my eyes but that one picture of the dog sitting at the at the table and saying like head coach Bill Belichick New England Patriots. That was worth it. That was that was worth this whole. Quarantine that for that one instant during the draft. Okay so draft grades always funny because they're never right and I like to look at all of them from from the draft grades that I've seen it looks like everyone loves with the Ravens. Did it looks like people kind of like what the cowboys did. Maybe the broncos as well getting a lot of help on offense and then the big loser would be the Green Bay packers who took Jordan love in the first round and then took a running back in the second and tight end too. I think they're going to convert to a full back in the third going redundant on positions to not help. Arron Rogers and then we had Matt Leflore say afterwards I know Erin is going to be a great mentor. Which is the least believable quote? That's ever been set. You don't know that he's a great he's he seems like a great teacher like a great person. Learn by someone who is not threatened at all by by young buck coming down. Green Bay was weird. The Vikings had an interesting draft because they got everybody. I think the Vikings had thirteen people that they drafted. And that's the old like extreme couponer version of of drafting. That does that. Zimmerman started doing our. It's like Oh why spend a first round pick on somebody when you can get six fifth round picks that are made the exact same ingredients for less money and yes absolutely and then full disclosure Full transparency I DID BASH. The packers drafted in the bears then went and drafted their eleven tight end. I Matt Nagy to that room. That he's in was the ultimate. Try Hard Room where he had just the plate like if it was just one wall of play cards and everything. It'd be like okay. That's that's kind of cool but then you zoom out and it's just the weirdest room ever that he just really wants you to know that. He's a football coach and the tight ends. The only thing I can think of is Ryan Pace is essentially. What he's doing is being that asshole in your fantasy draft who drafts the third quarterback before anyone has drafted one and then just makes everyone trade with you later on in the season when injuries happen so I think he's strategy is if we have eleven tight ends eventually. Someone's going to get hurt tight end and then we will have all the tight ends and you'll be forced to trade with the bears. Yeah he's cornered the market. He's hoarding tight ends. So it was like that Dude and Kentucky or whatever they had all that hand sanitizer and was trying to charge people two thousand dollars. Yep He's right though like if there is an injury to one of the premier tight ends in the NFL. They're going to have to pony up like a first and a second round pick But it is funny that they have eleven tight ends on GONNA have. Obviously they're gonNA probably only have two or three when they come to the start of the season. But it's just an absurd thing. I think it might be ten now. But they're all the jokes were happening which is of course because the bears are joke and people being the c according to CDC guidelines. The bears tight ends can't be in the same room together things like that. So yeah I mean you know anytime you can laugh at yourself. You got to do it. I I would say that. The cornerback Leigh took. I had him as a first round grade. So there we go. That's all you have to say by the way if you want to convince yourself That your draft is good. Just say the the person who team picks is oh well. One of my mock drafts. I had him as a first round greats. That's tremendous value. When you pick them up six round you can say like we actually were split whether or not to take him with fourth. Pick the fact that we got him with a six hundred. We got to fourth rounders for him. Yeah yeah that's pretty good. I liked what you said about the Ravens because I feel like we go through this every year with the ravens draft picks something about that defense just like the mystique or that defense if they draft a good linebacker every year people like. Oh God damn at the the Ravens Defense. One this draft again. Bu- Patrick Queen is awesome. And he's going to be a very very good fit there but I feel like we do have that conversation every year about the rate as they can't they've never messed up a draft right and Jay Dobbins is going to be insane in that office executives. Another thing you have to guard. He's awesome. I actually was shocked. He kind of slipped a little bit because he is one of those. He's like a a perfectly set up for today's NFL. Where he you know. He just can't be guarded in space. And now you throw that wrinkle in. I don't know I'll wait. I'll wait until I can look at them and I'll call him a fraud within the first three weeks but right now. Good job by the Ravens. I'm trying to think what other were the B. O. J. Guam Eagles all right? So let's talk about the first jake from real quick jake from if it were NBA rules and he had to come out of the draft after if he could come out of the draft after the national championship game he would have been a top ten pick he ends up being the backup and the bills and what the fifth or sixth round small hand small non not a great arm small hands but that sucks so bad because I remember after that game being like I love this Jake Fromm kid and then he estate two more years and never really got better. So that's what's what what's what ends up happening. Hey I know you wanted him on the Patriots three years ago. Of course I mean that that national championship game completely influenced me but I still. I still think the potential is there. I think he's going to be the best quarterback that comes out of the draft. Who AT THIS ANC? What about? What's his name? The guy from Michigan State Lewinsky especially learning behind. Someone like Josh Allen. Like that's only GonNa make them better has the biggest hands out of this year's class. I think they were ten and five eighths so MS also throws the most hilarious interceptions Michigan. State's offense actually made you want your eyes like you. You when you watch Michigan State's offense last two years you would have preferred to be blind. Yeah I mean he. There was someplace where he actually looked like. He was drunk on the field. Nice shot the if you're like this guy with a giant hands was carrying around three pints liquor and drank all of them before the So yes the Eagles Oh. Pf wrote up eagles fans. I really do believe in in the thought process that if eagles fans hate the draft. That means it's a fantastic draft and boy. Do they hate the Jalen hurts? Pick with the second round which I kind of understand the hatred there because I don't really know if he's a starting quarterback in the NFL. You took them. It's also very weird because you don't really see quarterback taken in the second round either. Take Him in the first round. Because then you get the extra year the fifth year option or you wait and take them as a flyer like this guy's a work in progress so him just being taken in the second round kind of speaks volumes that you already don't fully believe that he can be this long term starter because you take him in the first round and then it's too high to take him in the second round when he's going to be a project but the eagles fans flipped out and then shefty covering they're covering the eagles asses a little bit said that it might be because of Corona virus and Backup quarterback is going to be at a premium if the STARTER GETS CORONA VIRUS. Which is most insane thing? I've ever heard no now changed. How the NFL's going to do business? Listen TO WIN WIN. One one hundred of Of Your thirty to forty year olds. Come Down with the sickness of sidelines. Them for a week and a half you have to. You have to build that factor into your into your draft value charts a quarterback like counting on the fact that you're might get sick is so funny. I don't know what she was doing. Probably just like massaging her shoulders. A little bit like Hey. Make sure to give me the scoops in the future. I'll get you back on this one but I. I always got the feeling that Peterson is like. Following and Sean Payton's footsteps three years after the fact like he respect Sean Payton. He's like this is a coach with balls. I like style. If he's doing something I'm GonNa maybe try to emulate a little bit so taking jalen hurts to be their tastes hill You although jalen hurts. His only played quarterback. He's I don't think the skill set is similar. Taste some hills at all but he sees what they do down New Orleans. He was like I want to try to do something like that. Because having big balls as a coach is cool. Here's here's the spin zone for the eagles fans They drafted him solely because his character was off the charts. Because by all accounts jalen hurts is a great teammate. He handled the two of thing very very well. He had his moment the Sec Championship Game. Where he came in relief. He then was very well. Liked it Oklahoma? So maybe that's the new like the new hack. That's the new billy. Bean just draft solely on character. Not Anything to do with what your football team needs right now. If you're a captain on your team draft that person even if even if your team sucked because it shows that you're the king of the turns with hurts so he is the narrative that that started to go out right after he got drafted was he actually. Kinda likes being a backup. He did well as a backup. It sooner. It's like no. He absolutely does not. But if you're looking to draft like the best backup quarterback in terms of non terms of what they did on the field but in terms of how their team performed with him as backup. You could do a lot worse than Joan hurts. Yes and Given what we know about the Eagles Locker Room. He'll probably be the favorite quarterback within a week right. Yeah always always always loan false. They love Nick foles more than they than they loved Carson Wentz his all as far as we heard but overall I liked what the dolphins did as well. I'm trying to think of anyone else. Kind of like sh you know jumped out I. It's just so funny. All these things are so stupid grading drafts because everyone wants the great. Everyone wants the instant validation that Oh my God. My team did it but these things matter. There's the hold the old Jaguars. Jaguars had like five years in a row where they've got a plus draft grade and this was when they weren't doing anything good. Well No. I mean the only true a plus grade that assured again was the bortles draft. I maintain that that was the correct rate on great on the horizon for others where they drafted a running back or something really high I thought the Redskins did pretty well to take got rid of Trent Williams. Finally even though they got first forum last year and the forty niners. That's like that's huge for them because they're losing their. You know one of the best left tackle in football. And they're getting one of the best left tackle in football right on top of it so I liked the redskins strategy. Which seems to be. This is where I've been saying for a while like if you if you have no idea how to draft just load up on. Sec West players and then mix in Ohio state players. Every every now and again and you'll get to see the SEC had Quite the draft. Ole Miss was the SEC team. That didn't get a player drafted from that roster which is kinda crazy that every other team in the SEC. Got A player. Dr Listen that's fine. They had a good draft. They also lost a lot of talent And they also. They also have players at pretend to take pisses on fields so that probably screwed up the tape for everybody else. Also true also true All right and then the other big news that we had James Winston is GonNa sign with the Saints and be a backup which is actually terrible news for us because all we really wanted was James Winston to start football games and now he's going to be a backup for the saints. I hope that he gets in. I hope that I don't want you. Breeze I am I gonNa wis wish injury on drew brees but we need Jameis Winston in game situations Overall it feels like it took. It's taken the hall of fame. Career Jameis Winston. It might be a small hiccup no along the road to canton. But that's okay. Because guess what. He said that he took less money. from someone else who? We don't know who that was but someone offered him more money and maybe it starting job but we don't know who it is in everyone reports everything these days to learn from Sean Payton and be the backup in New Orleans. Listen this is have you ever seen a Kung. Fu Movie Beget Yeah this is perfect. This is the right storyline. It's like he started out as a hotshot. You get humbled a little bit. You go off in the mountains to train with some old wizard who blindfold zoo in hits you in the side with sticks and Shit and then you learn how to catch flies with chopsticks and stuff training out nature for a year. And then he backs. I'm combining like nine movies. Pretty Combining Aria getting trained by the guy would know face When when she turned blind. I should've should've just said have you ever seen game of thrones? No I think I think. That's one of the like five analogies and mixing altogether but in most Kung Fu movies. You Go and you train with Guru right. That's what James James GonNA come back next year in literally likely gunfire. Yes I agree I mean I just. I'm just bombed because I want to see him now. I've a bold prediction. I think James is starting at least six games this year. Okay so I have a bold prediction I think drew brees is GonNa get injured missing six games this year and then James would start. Oh six games right okay. So we're in agreement so we both have bold predictions. What aboutism helm taste them? Hill a Swiss army knife. Well THEY WANNA keep tasting hill from tastes him. He'll take every snap then if he's not good. Then Sean Payton can't trade him for six first rounders in ten years and I think the thought of having a taste hill on your offers a lot better than actually having tasted hill on your roster making was it like fifteen million dollars yes yes Taksim Hill is something you just need a little bit of. You can't have too much of it if you have too much of it. Things go south pretty quickly all right. Should we do? Who's back the week? Let's do who's back a week than we have Chris Angel. Coming up Hank why don't you start? Would they have won the CIA want? They WanNa would have won the playoffs if he had been playing the game. Now who takes him yes? That's true best player on the field against the vikings fact according to a Troy Aikman and everyone who had is is back on the weekends the NBA potentially go on. There was some news in the right direction. Wold reported that teams in states where they're like easing up on the corona virus. Banner going to be able to start practicing together. Teams are getting back together. So there's no news about this season coming back but it's a step in the right direction. Although I will say it makes no sense to me like from a competitive standpoint. How they're gonNA let some teams practice in some teams. Hank was very mad when I read this tweet to him last night because he was like. Fuck that like The box and the rockets are going to be able to come back right away. And the Celtics and the Lakers in the clippers are screwed. Now I've heard that they're trying to do something where maybe this is the. Nhl where they're just gonNa have like four locations spread out across northeast Southeast Ohio. I think they would just move to a state like teams that don't have restrictions would just move to stay in the interesting part two would be teams like. I don't know if they would just go straight to the playoffs or not. Like what would the next two hours not even? GonNa like Disney even worth it. Yeah I know I think gained right. You can just hop in the playoffs. That'd be that'd be crazy. There's no way that any bowl is going to come back and like be yelled at by Jim. Boylan for season doesn't matter anymore during a pandemic that would actually now. I'm rooting for that. I'm rooting for them to play at least two weeks so the Jim Boylan actually has to try to get his team to come back for him. That'd be perfect Um all right. Pfc what's your who's that my who's back in the week is simple. It's Trey wingo trade to we just become best friends. You did a good job trae. You did a good job. You've played it. You played a relatively straight. You stuck to a winning formula it with the exception of like there were a few times where you straight away from your will Farrell movies. And he started talking too much about feet like Quentin Tarantino hat tips. Things like that. I thought that he did. He did good with material he was given. They laid on the The tragedy stuff pretty sick on on Friday and Saturday like there was some prospects where they just talked about grandparents that died like forty years ago like that. They didn't even know his grandparent died. during World War Two. He had high blood pressure wasn't in the battle or anything but he died in nineteen forty-three So thoughts and prayers to that guy like the day overdid that quite a bit. I would say But for the most part I thought the trade did a pretty good job considering the circumstances yes. I'd agree I'd agree. He did get criticized. A little bit for his comment about Where was it in Southern California? Where he's like all they do is is surf and smoke weed and then Santa Cruz and the prospect was like I don't I don't do either of those things. It's like. Come on guys. Relax okay. Trays making a joke about his favorite hobbies smoking weed. Just chill out blazer. Don't but don't come at trae about that Also who's back? A week was overprotective mamas in draft room so a lot of players that would get drafted and then either step mom would come in or the girlfriend would come into a hug and mama bear would just put her hand up and play defense. Like this is my. This is my time to shine you. Keep Your Ho ass out of this picture right now. It's it was actually I. I'm always siding with the person who has the ability to to be like. Hey this is gonna live on forever and the country is watching us in our living room. Maybe it's not about you person who's been standing in the kitchen eating like the French onion dip for last four hours to come and get the first hug. Want you back off and let him have this moment. Although respect to that person who's been in the kitchen eating French on different four hours and then trying to get the spotlight. That's that's all. You're an athlete. If you're doing that they can stay. Continue making all right. My who's back? The Week is love. Being dead. Loves DEADEN LOVE IS COMPLETELY DEAD CAKE. Kavin Jay Cutler on the splits. They're getting divorced. I was blindsided by this. I felt like Peter King. I was walking Stella and I looked at my phone after about fifteen minutes. I had twenty mistakes I was like. Oh my God someone must have died like way worse the Royal Family's getting Divorced so all says Team J. I don't know anything I I literally don't know anything But I'm Jay. So that's my quarterback. He's got more time to practice handball. Yeah exactly that's my quarterback like that's what free Bros. got stick together during this again. I don't know anything but I've got your back without a doubt one hundred percent unequivocally kristen cavs taking a page out of the Kardashians e reality show playbook and this is all for you know some some. Promo for the show. Even if that's the case Hank I ride with J I actually thought it might be a publicity stunt when I first saw it because you know the is not immune to this fiscal downturn in America so you gotTa sometimes trump's story lines with everything that's going on with Jovic your goat and the talk of the vaccine virus though this definitely they got some arguments and as far as I'm concerned any conversation that you have in quarantine with a lover That should be. You should be able to turn the page on that because we're all going to go a little bit crazy right. You can't be you can't expect Jay to be locked inside with somebody on a private island for three months and not go a little crazy. I think they did go home but either way team. Jay Whatever may happen and yeah that's all I got to say. That's my state my statement. I want my statement. Just read I M T J forever and always unless he gets arrested for a felony which I don't think he ever would be but then I would reconsider my team. Jay Standing wouldn't wouldn't give it up right away that one thing to be read at that point you need to wait for all the facts to come for right decide radio so I'm good team Jay. All right let's to Our interview with Chris Angel Awesome Dude. Very positive guy. This is like a Monday. Motivation was criss angel. Before we do that. It's rough out there right now. Everyone's isolating physically distancing but listen. A man's got needs. Get a little desperate. You might be tempted to shoot your shot slide right into your XS. Dm's invite her over for a quick thing. Don't Trojans got your back? They're doing this thing called sex US instead instead of sexting your xt sex Trojan and they'll send you vibe or some lube to make pleasure in yourself awesome. This is sick. All you gotTa do is at Trojan Condoms on twitter. Send them an Eggplant Emoji. And all your horny guys or girls. We'll get something to make whatever you're into doing with yourself even better pleasure yourself like the world depends on it. Dude Shout Trojan. This is huge. They're basically saying. Hey you're you're gonNA do some crazy things with your brain right now. Stop. Don't do it sex US instead. So all you gotTa do is Send Trojan Eddie. Empties doing it right now. at Trojan condoms on Twitter Cinnamon Eggplant Emoji. And they will send you something to take your mind off of Your ex or some kind of bad mistake you're GonNa do when you when you Send out that text so if we all went out together we can save the world. Thank you to Trojan come together. Huge Trojan condoms on twitter hit them with the DM. And that's that's awesome so thank you. Trojan for helping everyone You know make mistakes. They don't want to make absolutely use Hashtag. Come yes absolutely Okay let's get to our interview. We have Chris Angel Mine Freak. Who Okay We. Now welcome on a very special guest. It is six time magician of the year he is a hall of Famer in the International Magicians Society Hall of fame I'm GonNa read all your accolades by the way mine-free most successful magic show in the history of television. The most watched magician of all time and has the most followers on social media. It is criss angel. Chris thank you so much for joining us. This is a great pr. Asian that was that was impressive. Yeah I gotta I gotTa introduce the legend that is criss angel so I guess the first question is how does the hall of fame? Magicians Hall of fame work in like. Did you get inducted into you? Have like a gold jacket like the. Nfl How does that go down? Basically Organization about one Hundred Years Old Bay only given this lifetime achievement award out of five times in their history. The only commercial Roy and I was not only the youngest Person to ever receive this unanimously. It has to be by over twenty of the board members that ranged from age in the twenty s to the eighties. But I am the only magician performing today to be In the ranks of the six persons ever get this one hundred years by the most prestigious International Brotherhood Magicians Organization in the world. So it's a pretty big thing and very grateful very humbled to be part of that. Oh what's it like at the induction ceremony for the Hall of Famer Magic? I I have to assume at least in my own brain that when you get like all. These magicians together in room. Everyone is always just worried that somebody else is starting a trick on him. Yes it's the world of magic is a pretty competitive sport if you will Because it does not a lot of people like if I asked you name ten logisticians right now. I bet you can't. Houdini mystery the pickup artist. David Blaine David Copperfield. The mass magician that gave away all your tricks on Fox cobb. Blues Penn and teller. Yes yes we don't. That's pretty much it you just tapped are five. Yeah Yeah so yeah. It's it's a small kind of thing and when you wanNA remained the most relevant you have to work harder. You know At the destination as opposed to getting to the destination so like an athlete on which I consider myself one because of the type of show. I do very physical show. I do a lot of Mma training gym at my house. And you have to really be especially if two now I gotta be really flexible and really athletic Not able to do a lot of these things. Yeah I read that you can still do the splits at fifty two. Which is that I. Do I interview Randy Guitar? Or but he has a great gym called extreme tour his son Orion get sore trains. Me and I have achieved code so I do a little bit of training and I just do some cardio. Stop Stretching and stuff like that but it's really important as you get older to remain flexible and to keep your body moving route to prevent injury hangups dining shocked to kill myself a million times a during the show so. I'm just always trying to be like focused and in the moment and you know hypersensitive to being physically set. How did you get into you? Know Magic like what at what point in Your Life. We like. This is it. This is my career. Because you gotta say it's not a lot of kids don't grow up. I'm going to be a magician. They're not that stupid. I was. I was six. My installers showed me a car trek and I was obsessed with magic in the power that gave you as a young kid when adults didn't understand how you were doing accomplishing certain things. And by the time I was you know. Let's handle Evans. Twelve years old. I was performing private parties on my bicycle as playing in bars by barely fourteen. Was You know Fridays? Incites could never get away with it today but in New York as to go into bars and closer magic I always knew this is what I wanted to do. Always had a big dream took me eight year. Eighteen years to become an overnight success but never gave up and no matter what it is. You want a life you just have to put that sweat equity in put blinders on believing yourself. No one else does. Don't waste your time on. Social media was seen to negatively breeds. Nothing positive and eventually can happen. You just gotTa really really you got to really be able to believe it envision it you know yeah. I have a very important question for EFI. Like good. Went lead off with actually is magic real Now I'm an entertainer artist. I use a lot of things that I'd be are real because I try to blurred line between reality and like when I hang by four fishhooks through my back from a helicopter over the Valley of fire or hang for six hours of It's real is no pain medication. No numbers nothing. When Frank Muir chocolate Dell or Ryan Aranda tour or Or who else will my missing Pge Van Zandt when a punched me in the stomach You know as hard as they could That was completely real. That wasn't like some type of tricks. So I do do tricks. And allusions Really can't fly unlimited. Even though I do it in a way that's never been done I try to blurred outline and let the audience determine what is real and what is oddity. It's a bit more fun for them to be able to determine what is what were you nervous when you got punched in the I mean. That's Houdini got caught right. Well that's what I was doing. I was kind of paying homage because Houdini in his day in age said that he could take any man's punch in a couple of college kids soil. Houdini after a show they were like. Is it true Mr Houdini Take any man's points news like yes you can prepare. Welcome and essentially Ruptured his appendix and on Halloween in Nineteen Twenty six. He died of So I wanted to do that. And today are fighters are way more scientific stronger faster and I just thought it was even more difficult to do that test today than it would be. You know nearly eighty years ago or something so I got you know. Ufc Champs you know and and Just wanted to see However however however I would have had a wreck reacted excuse me and and it was definitely An interesting experience. Frank Mayor is like two fifty or something bad and he hit me the first time he's holding back and I said you can't do that because it just doesn't look believable and I wanted to be legit and he like look that media site you got this look at this. I and I was like Shit. He is let loose and he was just here. Actually before. This whole thing went dow-. Hbo Cobra Virus Ucla Training at my gym with him in order in his coach so But he he chocolate del end and And and they all they all they all hit hard when you get a free shot. You know it's definitely something. I'm concerned about but leave the techniques. So I I was hoping it was going to work and it. I have talked with those Basically his knuckles in my in my stomach like he just stood there the the after effects or like a few hours. You just like this big red mark of his knuckles. It was so how do you do it? How you how'd you take? Its muscle control reeling distance. It's like commonsense things that you just have to feel really confident about when you put yourself you know literally at the end of somebody. That's a high level athlete like near their punch. You know so just practice. You know so you you looted to a second ago but you worked for eighteen years before because you said becoming an overnight success but at some point along the way I'm sure there was some discouragment some encouragements. What was one point where you're like? I can do this for a living. I can be extremely successful. Well I knew I could do for a living when I was a teenager because I was doing. Like twelve birthday artie. So weekend or is doing firehouse shows. I've played at windows of the World. I was in corporate events and I was also playing with my banning clubs so I knew I could do it for a living but I was just miserable performing you know as a babysitter basically doing magic for kids birthday parties and I never was happy with it so I just figured I would take that leap. Because it wasn't about money was always about living my dream. You know you get one life you have to choose how you live it so I just really were hard in just one for and it just it when your different than you're not like everybody else it? It's more difficult to succeed. But once you succeed in everybody like kind of copies you because you proven a road that can work and you pave the road so it was a very very difficult process. But once I along the way saw certain indications you know because there was no one big thing that really happened. It was a small small things that evolved and transformed into a big thing but it was a series of small breaks that allow them to get the big great which was really my mind. Free Television series. You know on a I need act in two thousand and five eight three specials before that I had a six hundred shows on Broadway and forty third on its at the. Wwe McMahon's aid me a break back in two thousand two thousand one. So and I still. I still work with today. You know Stephanie Band and triple H or call with was hanging with me. A Probably two months ago or something so it was a series of a lot of things were you can never give up. That's the one common ingredient you know you just gotTa work hard. Doesn't matter if you want to be the best basketball player anime guy football play you never can give up and you just have to put that time in. If it were easy everybody would be successful. But the It the harder it is to achieve something the greater the reward. So you have the world record in a couple of things and I want to just walk through them to like. Explain the level of panic or how you mentally got over it. So the first one was you were submerged underwater. And had the fastest time to escape from a straitjacket at two minutes and thirty seconds. How the hell do you train for that? And was there any moment where where you're like? Fuck I'm underwater for two minutes and thirty seconds this socks. I'm going to die right. I did over a thousand demonstrations on TV alone. And so so I think you're combining to different things but let me take one each one so I was the first Guy New Young Award. Twenty four hours. I did it in Times Square at the wwe and on Good Morning. America lie to hide everything And so I only was underwater for twelve hours in friends pool to see 'cause I didn't have money back and I want to see if I could do twelve hours and I came out. I was able to do it but I might. Skin drive me crazy. Because of the chlorine it's strove me not sweet. So when you say you're you're under your in like one of those clear boxes underwater. Yeah basically I had Houdini water. It was like a phone booth filled up with water and I always underwater for the very first hour upside down with eighteen pounds of chains and I was recreating what Houdini Did in y you know. Short time I wanted to do for twenty four hours so the first hour I was upside down the remaining twenty three hours right side up but I wasn't really prepared. I didn't have the money in science. United site just forced it S- and Y'all have a permanent scar on my nose because the mask or away and it was the most miserable experience you can imagine but I did it and it served its purpose. And then the one that you're talking about. I didn't tying swear in it was Got To straitjackets. I wanted to be the first person to try to straitjackets at the same bullshit. Straitjackets you get that you see. Everything inherited these magic using lake. Legitimate Cozy straitjackets. I two of them. I worked with Randy tour these Jim because I wanted him to. Constantly choked me out. I wanted to know what it was delights. What signs would be to know when I was going to go on conscious because the idea was not only going to have to straitjackets on I was going to hang upside down above twenty thousand people? You KNOW THIRTY THIRTY FEET. Thirty stories up and essentially have fifty pounds await basically hanging from one end of a rope. The other end was in new surround my nap and so I had to be very gingerly. Getting that straightjacket up is I was fighting against myself. If I moved a lot the news would get hydro at fifty pounds. I would pass out go unconscious and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish my mission so I had to be very methodical Randy tour and you any out a bunch of times. He talked about the crowder arteries. I did turn my neck and different different techniques and essentially on got that I first jacket off to the point that I could get the road with my teeth. Offer my mouth drop the way everything off and then I got out of glass jacket but I did pay a small Christ side ripped my bicep off of my phone. Complete Ariza my rotator cuffs. I had a five hour surgery with seven. Susan anchors nine months of rehabilitation and both surgeons and And my physical therapist after nine months. It don't ever do that again. I still do it every night on my show. Wait so I just looked at. That's insane I looked at the other video just now while you're while you're telling the story about you being underwater for twenty four hours with obviously a scuba mask you then went to the hospital. Your skin like how the fuck your skin looked so gross in Prune. How long did that like if I ask for a little time and it was so funny because when I went to the when I went to the hospital the doctor and the nurses there quits and I'm white? I'm so itchy. I can't I'm just so like my skin is so uncomfortable and they didn't know what to do because you know it's not like the look in their medical journal. Heidi treat somebody who was under water for twenty four hours the Guinea pig. That was stupid enough to do. It's so So it was a little challenging and I couldn't eat. I couldn't like eat because obviously I couldn't go to the bathroom. Always just taking liquid in peeing in a tube But essentially you know that was it. I've done a lot of really stupid things but It's it's amazing that over a thousand demonstrations you know I did manage to kill myself because a lot of things like floating over the pyramid. Lots five hundred fifty three. I didn't even know that was gonNA work and it'll pupil to watch this go to my instagram. Chris on this in or my youtube and type in top fights and I sit applied in it. That were absolutely nuts. I let myself on fire. I spent plenty for us in the water I was buried. Alive just hung by fishhooks. So it's like each one that I that I did and it's the ultimate social very true. That's very true that is what's it like when you finish with a trick like that for the First Time. I imagine this guy be like scoring a touchdown or relation or is it like the opposite. Is it a little bit like you're scared? I can't believe survived that I look back and since I in you know we kind of doing mitigation stuff. I spent a lot of time pulling footage and putting stuff up that not. I've done my career because I never stopped in smell the flowers and got my work and so I- people always ask about certain things so I've been hosting new clips things shoot my house with my kids and and stuff that was from my past and it's really crazy because I'm the type of guy that I work harder than I than I than I worked to to succeed. I think you have to work harder in order to remain the number one guy at in in your respective discipline so for me. I never stopped and look at what I'd done yesterday. I'm always looking at what I'm doing. I'm doing tomorrow and I'm always looking to like kind of anti raised the Ante in everything. I'm doing I I won't stop being like that until I quit so I I really don't stop in look at it but I have just recently because of being trapped in my house and and I'm just you know sometimes it feels like it was a different person you know And sometimes I I stop and I'm like Holy Shit Out Birdie. Engraved yeah vying over the valley. I of ice fish lips to be a flash and and and some of the things that I dated a walk down the side of the Planet Hollywood you know thirty mile an hour winds is a pretty stupid thing to do but I had to make it easy. Tv show is the executive producer producer. And if I did I would. I would have lost that money so a lot of chances we would have you know Standards and practices on white via the regulation of safety for television would always WanNa come and see what I'm doing and I always knew that anything that I would do. That would never allow me to do so. It always gives them the wrong address. That's awesome true story. That's awesome. What tells the fishhooks thing? How the Hell do you do that? Like Mentally Fisher Going mind over matter your body. It's yeah it's mind over matter so I got a guy that this piercing who does a lot of bodies suspension and this has been a practice. That's been around from boy going into like you know a transition from a boy to manhood and they would do this. You know as as tradition as part of their culture is sort on TV. I wanted to do so. I gotTA oldest Guy Alain Fall or was his name. Believe it or not Roy them out and I hadn't because it's really important to take Fisher and he put it in your flesh. You can't go too shallow because it will rip right out of your flesh and your fall or if it goes too deep you'll hit your Muslim permanent damage so you have to get it in that sweet spot and I not numbers. No pain medication of any kind. And so he strongly up. And and it's really you know mind-over-matter it's it's kind of like that's why. I love you know the UFC in and MNA because these guys go into our warriors and it's you know pene Sudan is a feeling of being allies. You know it's it's like you know when an athlete really wants to accomplish something they don't care if they're feeder hurting you know care. They the damaged this. Their objective is more important than the moment therein. It's the it's the end result that they're looking for and I think I share that same sentiment. It's it's the end results so for me I went up. I was trying to get lifted off. My Skin. Stretching off of my bone is pulling me up and I felt like I was in my brains out and I had to come down which which Allen was freaking out. He's like no one comes down and goes back up. Because once you down you never can muster the energy to go back up and so So I had a hat make it. Tv shows financially responsible for and no one ever did this before hanging by a helicopter and flies and so it was the most painful thing I've ever done in the most beautiful mustered the courage I knew I had to do it. I got myself in mindset. I kind of visualize what it was gonNA look like before I did it and essentially I embrace the pain as opposed to fight in. I accepted the pain and I try to concentrate on between what is in delight. Like if somebody takes your flesh in A pinch your instant reaction. Since you're a baby is whole away or fall to cry but if you really study what being it's just you know it's it's it's something that you can process and overcome so they were. When when I skin was being cold I started focusing really really intently on. What is that stealing that sensation unsealing and I started becoming numb to the pain and was able to overcome it and that was like a trick. I did in my own mind that that has helped me so many times. When I'm in situations where I'm like Shit I could die or I could be permanently. Maine's how am I gonNA get through this first of all. I just remain calm. I think methodically. Think about what my job is. I think about what I've rehearsed. I think about you know being in that moment. In dealing with the micro of every single moment in the moment and getting to the end result which is my goal and and sometimes you goals that are short term and sometimes their long-term and from either both you know and I just I got on not not a smart guy. Like I didn't go to college. I was in slow classes in high school. I just hide an overwhelming desire drive and passion like no one in my field that I was going to do things. If it killed me that would be okay. That would be the price. I was willing to pay to succeed and be the best that what I do. You mentioned before we started taping that you do four hundred fifty shows a year so I I have to imagine that you're not doing the same exact tricks every night but I also think that there's a danger in performing the same trick multiple times that you can start to become complacent with it or get bored with a trick and lose focus whereas the first time you do it. Your mind is hyper focused on every single step. Have you experienced that? If so like how do you? How do you get past that one hundred percent? Absolutely you know it's like if you if you think of a better player going down the court and they practice is over and over and over again and then during the Games and they've done it in games over and over again it's very easy just to put it on automatic pilot when I always do. Is I find number one. I I cut back from doing that many shows because I did that for like ten years and now that I'm at planet Hollywood with my brand new show mine freaks. I WANNA be a chance to tour more and I wanted to balance because my youngest son or actually my oldest son just had another kid but Otis on is going through pediatric cancer so I wanted time to deal with his treatment in in do some other work for children that are going through similar situation but I am. I just I just focus and and prioritize what it is trying to do what it is. I'm trying to accomplish and you lost meaning to say one more time. Sorry I was saying like if you're doing the same trick multiple times a trick that dangerous. Yes yeah I try to prioritize? You know what is going on at that moment if I'm on stage that's my priority and I focus in that moment and I also think about that audience that I'll never have in the room together ever again. In the history of the world that audience will never be their. This is their only experience collectively and my job is to professionally. Give them the most incredible mind blowing experience. They can possibly have in Las Vegas at show and in order to do that. I got to be in a moment. I can't phone it in. There's other magicians downs at just literally walk through the motions and floated in teleprompters have fans blowing. And that's not what I'm about to two shows a night. Every night three shows each it becomes like a hamster on the wheel. I don't WanNa do that This might be a really dumb question but I also feel like it is our scientific duty to ask it just in case the answer is like no one's ever asked you this before but do you think you could make corona virus disappear like. I feel like we could get like two years down the line and still look for a vaccine. And you're like you know no one ever asked me. You didn't try magic yet. Yeah I it's it's a crazy time you know it's so it's such an interesting observation but your family's like mine that have a trial that has a compromised immune system practice social distancing mitigation handwashing sanitizing. Everything all the time and what this has done. It's kind of been a wake up call for the whole world for one to be in the moment to realize. I've seen what we have and how we take it for granted you know and for me you know the human spirit is resilience and I really believe that we are GonNa absolutely get through this stronger than ever. I think I I hope it serves a time for people to reconnect to the ones that they love. You know we take people for granted and working is something we all need to do because we are bills to pay but love is something. That's priceless and something that we often take for granted and it's important to spend this time because we have no other choice to make the most of it to make it a positive experience and so that's what I'm trying to do and trying to put out. The world is positively end to be the moments and to be positive entitled without hope It very bleak you have a conscious conscience choice to make whether you're gonNA choose to take this time in it's the end of the world or you're GonNa take time and make something positive. Come from it. I think you just did it. I think you're just mind free corona virus. Because that's the that's like we don't hear a lot of positive spins right now so you have to be you know the the problem is not to get political because I believe you know. This virus has no political face. It can affect anyone just like pediatric cancer can watch file. The two minutes is diagnosed with it So it can happen. It doesn't know you know discriminate if you're black white rich poor famous or not and I just think that The media is not helping. Because they're adding to the hysteria. Yes we need information. We need to know but we also need to have hope. We also need to put positively in the world in love in the world and we not. We need to get that as humans. It's essential to our DNA and when you have people in the world that are just saying you know bad news bad news bad news when we're home in isolated from the one set we wanna see the things that we wanna do you know. We need to be practical and realistic but we also need to be positive and hopeful and resolute in our understanding that we will come back stronger than ever and we need more messaging like that. Because you know there's more people is about two hundred and sixty thousand people I believe in the world that has committed suicide this year already lot more people than have passed on because of the virus now every life is valuable every single life and I'm not trying to compare one to the other but we also got to keep Huzzah. Tiffany in the world. It's not going to be the end of the world. We are all going to go on. We're all going to move on and and within a thrives and if you don't think that you don't feel that then you interface negatively what you think is what you are what you put out. The world is what you get. I firmly believe and I think we need more positively so in a way you did come up with a magic formula which is listened to medical experts and practice social distancing and also have some positive thinking and just know that we're going to get to the other side. Yes that's the magic remind freaked it you just as the mine-free we might. Do you mind freak just random shit like do you just like walk around your house and just mind freak people now. I I usually am always creating you know like when I perform. That's my job. But creating is my passion. I love creating if you come out here left. Have yet my show. Yes yes I I do a thing where I fly in levitated in pure light like you can see every little. I worked almost twenty years on this. I had a company that works for NASA. Come onboard helping with this. I did it on Broadway but when you see this people that have been in business for forty years. Don't even know how I do it and and it's something that I'm always thinking. I'm always creating always writing things down. I'm always working on different projects but I don't necessarily walk around in an and the the deck of cards. I Hate Cartwright's but I do card tricks him because one or two good but when people have their whole show of card tricks to me like when people come to Vegas they wanted to be they WANNA see spectacle may want to escape reality their problems they wanNA see the impossible possible. They want the messaging in their lives to be that. Hey you know I just hope his show. I can go out and conquer the world. Anything that I dream up I can achieve because it's not about how I do it. It's about how you feel when you watch it and when you have that connection to the audience its purest form of magic. So Cartwright's in other tricks. Just like an enigma. I know how to do something you don't know how to do and for me. It's not about that. It's about inspiring people inspiring emotion and making people feel like they can go out and accomplish anything in her life and I think that's why I have had so much success because the messaging is one of hope positively and something that I had been doing now since I started doing. It's not something that I started. Because of the virus can you use levitation to dunk great question thanks to do what to Dunk Dunk? A basketball dunk had Shaquille O'Neal at my house. And we we were playing a little basketball and we were just screwing around outside and he challenged me to meditate him. And so so I did. You can go to my instagram An and check it out but I- levitated him over my house and then I put that out there in people were starting to say. Oh it's a balloon. It's a helium balloon. I swear on my mother who I love more than life itself. I wish I could get a balloon to do things like this. You can ask shock. And he did this. He literally flew over my house. Oh you guys are doing light as a feather stiffest board. Middlesbrough's do this all the time. Yeah I'm watching it right out but seriously could you have made him dunk. Well he asked me about the free throw and magic and so I got one last question. He's a great guy but yeah he criss Angel Mind. Freak my last question. Is You have a secret society. But it's but it's not secret because you can you can go and you can like log into it. What's what's behind that. What's the Secret Society about? Well it's it's a clever. I weighed markets kids. That WanNa learn magic because I think magic builds confidence. It builds the ability to forward think bills the ability to address groups of people and I think kids need to have those on building blocks as they grow up to so I wanted to put magic out in the world that I would personally teach and I would perform what the trick look like. And then I'd give them an opportunity to learn beginning a beginner version or advance version and so we have a stain called the secret society where people go online and type in the code and then I appear and then I'm able to teach them different tricks that that they can do with the deck of cards because I love cartridge so much at their home or they can buy a magic kit that I can teach them how to do things with. So it's basically we call it a secret society and Because we we talk about secrets. I keep secrets you know. The real secret is is the magic of emotion in bloom how to that product package magic in a way that connects to people on an emotional level. And that's what movies do. That's what Disney does. And that is the purest form of what magic is this. I'm watching the shack video. I don't. It's incredible I don't understand. How did you do that on his back? Flavor flav there. Yeah so so. This is what this is crazy. But we've done like I've always incorporated you know Sports figures because I have such a a admiration and respect. You know somebody that has that type of discipline to be a great athlete. Might Tyson my son and his sixth birthday party and I know Mike for many many years and he and his family came over my son's birthday party which was in February and we were hanging and we were just talking and And shoot the shit and I have so much respect for my. You know like what he has accomplished in the amount of training in the discipline that it took two to win the championship heavyweight championship at twenty years. Old is just astonishing and the and he's such a great guy on and so I love hanging out with these people. I Love Tony Hawk on. I'm going to be doing a project with Tony Hawk coming up. I just love these people that spend so much time being the best at their craft at their sport. The discipline meditates his second to none. And I just I just love being around him. It inspires me one of my favorite things in all of sports when a quarterback is able to do a really sick play action like where they faked a handoff kind of put it behind their back or whatever. Fake out the entire defense. Do you think that you could work with a quarterback and teach them like a next level play action fake where they really think I? I have thought about that because I I had a couple of guys that I've been France with in the U. OF C. You asked me about you know misdirection and different things. But you know what they're doing those quarterbacks and is is really is really incredible like the level that they're doing it at if you look at it now and you look at it you know fifteen years ago ten years ago you see a transformation just like in this day and and Yeah I think you can certainly were toward using magic and illusion to enhance their strategy. I don't think it would hurt. Let me say that. I think it might add another little layer and I don't even know what that means right now have to really study it really kind of look into it. But I'm sure I'm sure because they are doing misdirection and are doing things to make you look over there when they actions going over there just like you know to put in my hand. I make it look a year when this ends doing it right. Yes so Yeah I it'd be interesting. It'd be an interesting exercise to see whether or not someone like myself. Who help facilitate a higher level play? I don't know if I could or couldn't but I love to try his LV awesome. You got the raiders right. There is teach Derek March and bring you in Mark Big Fan. You're absolutely you teach them how to do that. And they'll be running spider to why Banana and defense won't be able to stop it. Do you hang with Mark Davis. I'm very tight with. Yes Yay namedrop. No no that's yeah. Mark marks a friend. Marts a friend of mine and we actually just yet. He had dinner at my house when he came out. Here is you get an Jiang's delivered mad at myself for Okay and his that. Ns tapes and then we and then we had just met up Backstage a planet Hollywood in my dressing room about a project that I'm working on that. The raiders get involved in. Call a great guy. The raiders humming to Vegas is just absolute insanity. It's such a great thing for this town especially now considering you know you have the Golden Knights which are fantastic. We've done things together with the Golden Knights as well. Now the raiders. I mean Vegas is really transformed into something. You need to have sports. You need to get the town and the city hind it. And the raiders is like the Dad I pass it everyday going to war and the stadium. They did just the most. Incredible JOTTED. Ominous levitated the stadium. That would be sick. Something there. Okay so I've been in. I've been in the stadium a few times. They asked me to come in. Ask you to look at it and we chatted about some things. But I'll definitely a probably do something in there because we've talked about it before and I'd love I'd love to get involved with the raiders. I it's just such a great team and the brand and and also my my dear friend of mine is in Tom. For almost twenty years is like be his dog is name reiter. He's the biggest radio stuff. We'll really excited. Vegas really excited to have the raiders. And I think it's GonNa be so poignant now with everything reopening hopefully sooner than later that we're GONNA have the raiders here in what September October. Y'All some of their first games. We hope that will be able to do. It's just going to bring such an energy and excitement and just something to look forward to us. Yes I would imagine. You can find a quarter behind Mark Davis Zero and just like that's a captive audience. Right there like fuck man. That's what Mark Mark Davis is is a good guy. Anytime I call him. You call you right back. And and he's there and he's really becoming part of this community love. He's really trying to trying to help out locally. And and somebody underprivileged situations and stuff like that. So we're really grateful to have the raiders here Tab Mark here the Golden Knights It's really really awesome. If you told Jon Gruden that you could teach his quarterbacks play action. He probably just won't let you leave the building. Yeah he'd be like this or how you at the suggestion. Yeah yeah go either way but Chris thank you so much. There's been a ton of fun will definitely take you up on the offer when we next year and valleys and anytime you have anything you want to talk about promote your welcome back on here anytime. I want to thank you for having me on and I want to say to your listeners. Stay well stay safe and come out to Las Vegas when you can. No you got bills to pay mortgages leading all that stuff but once the world gets back come to Vegas come to planet. Hollywood see mine. I guarantee you have a great time. Thanks so much awesome. We'll be sex appreciate it. Take care of that interview with Criss Angel. The mind freak is brought to you by simply safe with all this uncertainty in the world. Feeling safe home is never ever been more important. That's why I wanNA talk to you about simply safe home security. Their longtime friends apart my taken for good reason simplisafe has made it easy to finally get comprehensive protection for your home. There's no technician. There's no sales person that needs to come in disrupt your house. You don't need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. That's the worst part about ordering security system. He think oh it's going to be super expensive month-to-month and you're afraid that you're gonNA get locked into a contract and some weirdoes gonNA show up and come into your home and installed a Security System. And then he knows where all the census are not the case simply safe. You order it online. Set it up yourself in under an hour and your home is protected. Twenty four seven with emergency dispatch for break INS fire and more all for just fifty cents a day. We're not the only fans simplisafe. Us News and World Report name simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty right now when you had to simplisafe dot com slash. Pmt My listeners. Get Free Shipping and Sixty Day. Risk-free trial that simplisafe dot com slash. Pmt Make sure that they know the pardon. My take sent you from simplisafe all the syrup part of my take wishing you safety good health go to simplisafe. Dot Com slash PMT. Okay let's get to some segments we've amount flush more coming up and before we do that. Oh we also have a deep dive with billy but before we do that we have a board slash high slash quarantine ideas from all three of us. So let's go round so PFC wants you start and go hang. And I'll finish it off. Okay so I was. I was thinking about this during the draft. Is it possible that you could draft a coach? Why would you sign them? Could you draft somebody to be a coach because then you own their rights if you think maybe next year there's a coach that's going to leave and go to the NFL and you want to get out in front of that? Could you use a draft pick on a college coach To prevent another team from hiring them to be on their roster. Then you'd have to draft all the coaches right because then team would be wasting a draft. Pick on someone they could would just be able to sign. But it's more a game of keep away so if you think that hypothetically the Los Angeles chargers are going to hire urban Meyer as their coach next year why wouldn't you if you're in the AFC west draft Urban Meyer. And then you have his rights for at least the next year so they can't hire them during the off season. 'cause he's technically belongs to you. I don't know if I don't know if you can't I don't hate but just sharing on my TV for long enough? That I thought about it. My other draft idea was trevor Lawrence. What if there's not going to be college football season two Trevor Lawrence? Could he then declared to go into the supplemental draft and then somebody could pick them up as a first rounder like in a month or two or whatever the supplemental drafting so? I don't know I was actually surprised. I don't know exactly how it works. Why wouldn't I guess you can't draft someone before they are eligible but it? I was thinking about that. Like seventh round situation. Why wouldn't you just draft him and then fight it? You know what I mean in. Basically take the risk that somehow. The season's not going to happen. I don't know how that would work right. I don't know exactly how that worked but I had the same similar thought whereas like why isn't anyone trying to just at least fight this like Maurice Clarinet situation and just see if they can. They can get Trevor Lawrence on a roster. I guarantee you that floor. He knows exactly that we're letter on both things like in two seconds and then call us idiots and really hammer home. Why wrong for the next ten minutes. Yeah and then get mad at us about going in and working in the office together like seven feet apart. Florida would accomplish all that in a minute. So I I think the way that it goes with these draft picks is you can you can retain rights to a player for up to a year. But it doesn't mean that they have to work for Right Reich. They but I don't. But if you're a team that has a supplemental pick why not take a shot on Trevor Lawrence and and bank on the fact that if the incidentally season does happen it might not happen till the spring and if it happens in the spring? I can't imagine that there's a lot of upside for a guy like Trevor Lord cigarette there and play right up until the right so it does say right now. I'm just googling. He has to be a four official three years out of high school. And that's at the end of the county or twenty twenty so he's just not eligible to be drafted yet so that just must it might just be cut and dry like that. That would have been sick though. Fuck it would've way but he's not eligible to be drafted. But could you sign somebody as an undrafted free agent? No because he's got. I think you can't be in the NFL unless you're three years out of high school okay so you can't play in the NFL unless three years at a high school but he is over eighteen. So could you sign a contract Trevor Lawrence in a month? Let's just say that you're the Patriots you'd be like. Hey we WANNA sign you two or three year. Fifty five million dollar contract undrafted free agent starting in June of twenty twenty one. Well here's where it could get interesting and again we should probably just have florio onto explain it here. You know what we're definitely to real quick but I would definitely to dump to get into that I was GonNa say could you? What if the NFL season is delayed until January? Could you then sign Trevor Lawrence? Then that's an interesting. Yeah all right. He'll pick up. He's got a pickup Mike. Mike Mike you're on your on your on. Emt Right now. Can you just tell us why we're stupid? Which were were pretty much having the high conversation. Trying to figure out why a team didn't try to draft. Trevor Laurence's rights. Just tell us why we're dumb and just explain it like in the rules because we know you know rocking his right. Yeah or like signing him. As an UNDERGRAD. I don't know we're just being stupid. Can you just tell us why we're done? Yeah he's not eligible to be selected by any team until he has three years high. School graduation pacify. So they can't it'd be violations roll. It would be a waste of the pick or you'd be disciplined smart or something like that. He's just got in a certified pool draft picks. What about an undrafted free agent? If they don't have a college football season he's not eligible to be to be signed. And if there's no college football season then he can be drafted next year. Look at the the guy from West. Virginia that was in the XSL. He got drafted even though he played a season in the accident because he was eligible. Now it's just whenever you're eligible horses eligible next year even if there's no college football season he's eligible next year. Okay that made way too much sense. So we're just really stupid wrong creativity because it finally creativity really stupid okay. Here's another one what. Pfc had the ideal. Why can't you draft a coach? I don't know 'cause it's not bad advice. Thank you all right so that was doug pardon. My Dad wasn't a real answer. He ducked my co two. Does but guess what you start thinking about it and I was like you might be right. Pf here's here's the thing. We might be very dumb but we have some very smart listeners. Out there. I'm sure that somebody has thought of a scenario where they can kinda skirt the rules and somehow get Trevor Lawrence onto their roster. You know maybe it's January first of of next year. Maybe it's at that date somebody if he declares himself. I don't know what I'm doing. Somebody else fixes someone else that needs to be exploited out there and someone will get to the someone do it for us all right hank give us your high stupid idea won't Ellen ever said this stupid. The Zachary Genius in my opinion So obviously you know. We're all stuck in. Our houses knows when we're going to be out of our house. People are trying to figure out ways to make our house relaxing or make it a little bit better experience being home altan somewhat. There's people that I gossip New York City where there's you know there's no room there's no room to put extra staff like you need a whole. We don't have backyards during a front yard remaining porch. Cousy just a one by one square leg. Oleg remember. Rollercoaster tycoon where you could just. It was just one square. And you could build all the way up like I'm talking like a Cube Jacuzzi that could fit even on the smallest porches. Okay so you're talking about like one of those you ever seen those cash machines that people step into all the dollars blow everywhere and they try to grab as many dollar bills. You're talking about. Just filling up with water swirls water all around just big enough for you to stand in not even standing just use like just get up and sit down in it. Yeah it's probably like up to your you know trust nipple area about what about a Jacuzzi suit? I've heard of a Jacuzzi superhighway debt. I liked that I've I've trying to. I'm trying to invent a massage suit. So we could maybe make it a double massage and Jacuzzi suit. Yeah I might not I might have just made it up in my head but like it'd be sweet if you could zip up a big puffy thing that had circulating water right Port security. I actually in college I was. I lived on a third floor and we had a window out of the kitchen. That was huge and we built a little drawbridge and had a grill outside the window. Very dangerous to have a grill on third floor. People could walk underneath it very very dangerous but delicious to Yeah we had one of those on on my porch in college so it was like a small portable tailgate charcoal grill and there we created a pile of trash out there and then at the end of the semester we just lit it on fire in a controlled which quickly became out of control. This whole situation with fire trucks and stuff. You guys are doing this. Tell me that the market is air. That's not term guys in your college they would buy the Porsche cousy. That's not okay. Yeah I I like to point Jacuzzi. The Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen had inside COUSY AT UCLA. That was pretty cool. He put in his actually looked into buying above ground. Jacuzzi for my apartment. Kramer had that unsigned. Yes but I think I think hanks right if you get a Jacuzzi outside. That's that's even bass absolutely. I'm in Ford Hank. My my idea was I was doing in the studio. I was doing the egg challenged which is not a real thing where you give your dog and egg and they not nurture it and then Stella just put it in her mouth and turned around and dropped it to try to eat what was in it. Very smart But it made me think we should you know how the they have the SEO websites? What time does the game start? We need to create A. Can I feed my dog? This because realized that I google that all the time we create that site you could also do like a spin off site from that like is it okay to ingest this or whatever. People are googling constantly especially given these like quarantine times. We're all sitting inside with our dogs. So can my dog eat? This is we'll go shoot to the top and we'll sell ads off it. Yeah can I feed my dog blank is can i? Can I draft a coach? We'll go way off after today's episode Google. Does I like that. That's not bad. A Jacuzzi suit the reason. Why I I thought it. Existed is because mill houses. Mom Wore one time on pretty shoot should exist as well though like a full body you just put it. It's basically massage chair. That you can walk around. Why DOES ADDICTS WASTE? They think about it. Hang Egg don't give me. Those side is on thinking about the eggs challenges. Just giving your dog and egg and they don't say one someone I saw it like three or four times. I think it was on by the way. WanNa know how washed I am. Well one I call Dj Dj Thousands his first name. Probably my most wash moment of all time to I've started to watch tick talks just so that I can keep up with music. Well the dance music that say that way. Because I'm not in a car so I don't. I'm not listening to you know radio so I'm listening to tick Tock. That was a catchy song. Let me go play it on. Spotify Real Quick Roger Goodell. Did that left foot slides right man in the world. Do you think Roger Goodell's give himself a Piss test this morning. Oh yeah he's probably in the name of the goodell houses wife checking his piss but yeah so it's supposedly like you can give your dog and Eggen. They'll they basically showed it. It was just labs because you know Labrador retrievers can do that. Shit where they'll like. Grab Duck and then bring it back with their soft mouth so it was a dog took the egg and then it went and sat in his little bed and dropped the egg and just sat there looking at it and lifted. I kind of watch. I mean maybe he might not even take it like Stella took it and then immediately she knew what she was doing just dropped it so crackle and started looking it up. I think Leroy would bite into it as a piece of Gum all right. Should we do our mouthwash more choice? Gusher Yell Hank you start mouthwash more choice which we can talk. We can discuss the end. There are a couple of chores that actually are great so it does work. Oh Okay we'll discuss the end. I'll see if anyone pick mine staining a deck staining attack never done it seems like a pain in the ass those lutely at eight in the super and I feel like one of those things where like it seems like something you have to do like once every like twenty years and it seemed like something. I was doing like spring. They all right. Let's let's stay in a decorative. Yes takes forever. You have a hot tub on your deck. It was a wooden getting warped. No not even okay. Okay and one my first one. I'M GONNA go with cleaning out the refrigerator cleaning out the refrigerator's really bad chore. You have to not only do you throw stuff away. You gotTa Wash Out Tupperware and like leftovers. That you've had in there for a couple of months it's a bad shore that's a that's an easy chore. No there's some gross food and stuff there would be bad. I can't believe that ten minutes tops goat of a bad chores. Not being on here is crazy so far I mean doing. The dishes is the worst doing the dishes. The worst because you also just eight. So you're like all I WANNA do is sit down and just relax and then you gotta get up and do the dishes. That's doing. The dishes have deterred millions upon millions of people from ever cooking at home because they suck so much. Yeah I I don't mind drying dish. That's not do dishes. Doing the dishes is totally different than drying. The dishes. Do not have a dishwasher. What do you mean? Drying the dishes not have dish well. Well then it's even more new. Parliament does then. Then you should really hate doing the dishes. Yeah I mean that's why sometimes eat directly out of what container they send. Of course. You'd have really made a big ass throw it away big pot of stuffing from stove. Top and I just ate the entire thing is when you hate doing the dishes just as much as me just as much as everyone you just didn't realize because you just refuse to give yourself dishes it also because I know that if I eat from dishes then I'll eventually have leftovers. That'll put in my fridge. That we'll have to clean out at some of the key is when you have leftovers when you when you have leftovers you just put tin foil over the dish. You don't then don't have to do the dish and the Tupperware All right number two cleaning the bathroom toilets sinks just the worst. The worst agreed agreed. And for some reason there's no sink in New York City that doesn't get close the like in terms of puking. I feel like I have a pretty strong stomach but if I have to unclog if to snake a sink it is almost instant than I puke. Snaking a sink. Yeah I mean my sink gets clogged in. It has to deal with my face. Yes like the weakest facial hair in the entire world so we also have gross. Yeah and toilets Goddamn okay all right my second one. I'm going to helping somebody move. Yeah that Chore Though. That's Chore Okay. Okay Moving Okay just moving moving chore Mu Packing Up Your Stuff. That's not a chore. As Not a chore I would say that. Pack up all your stuff in boxes to move in short. That's not what a chore is. Though chores something like a household thing that you have to do okay Cleaning OUT GUTTERS THIRD TRY clean gutters reaching in there and pulling out six month old rotten leaves big. There's like people who who literally have lived in the same house for thirty years listening to stuff. I don't want to do all right all right. Okay thank your thir second and third pick weeding. God Wabi something I feel like I would only get like give it to me as a chore. When I was in trouble they go. Hey there's like there's a Shitload of weeds in the Front Yard Goto. What I figured you'd like that And Making Your Bed Just Pointless Chore Having Are There had no reason no reason ever be done but for some reason you had to do everyday. Yup which annual funds about our friend. Field Yates. Espn. He makes his bed in his hotel right. Every time he wakes up in the morning. He's not how creepy is that? Cross out friend yeah. He's he's an individual that we recognize a crazy. I can't believe that there was somebody in the draft. That really impressed. Peter King impeded like brought him up a couple spots on the big board because he also made the bed in the field. Yates now immediately. Bumped up to the top list of people who could be Patrick Bateman and like if someone said like field. Yates remember him the fantasy guy. Yeah he turned out to be a serial killer. Yup Makes Sense. Had My eye on that one out about the bed thing. Yup Your third my third one. I feel like going to church is a chore that counts in My House growing up that counted as a chore. Okay it was like it was like cleaning out your your room except for your soul. Okay so yeah going to church Okay I will go with organizing the garage. That is Shitty Shitty Shitty One. Because you know that the garage is the place where you just basically throw piles and piles and piles being like. Don't have to do that. That's spring cleaning where you have to just organize everything and you've been neglecting. It fucking sucks okay. My last one. I mean very basic. Doing laundry sucks. Doing the laundry sucks. Everyone waits to do the laundry. As long as possible where sweatshirt three times where genes fifteen times in a row. Doing the laundry sucks. Because you know it's not just a simple process we can snap your fingers. You GotTa do it. Then you gotta put it away. He can do fucking hanging up and all that bullshit. Doing laundry sucks. There was a moment where I was. I was dangerously approaching Middle Age as like a twenty eight year. Old I bought are sick. Washer Dryer and I had insult and everything I was really excited spending amount of money on it and then I did the laundry and as I was taking the clothes dryer was like I spent all this money on doing laundry and the closer still not folded when my life is not any better despite the fact that despite the fact that I just spent like paychecks worth of money on this fucking Washer Dryer yes doing laundry is just. It's miserable there's nothing there's no two ways about it that it's like the the one thing if I ever got super super rich one. Is that have a basketball court in my house to? I don't think I would ever wear the same pair of socks or underwear again like the same like it would just be new all the time new clothes. All-time new clothes field. Just fucking throw them out or donate them. Every single time never have to laundry never have to also part of laundry Allen Iverson. Is there nothing worse than having a new shirt that you love or sweatshirt doing the laundry once and be like well? This doesn't fit anymore. That might be a big guy. Problem might be. I agree with you on the Socks Front. Though nothing like having a brand new pair saw yes yes all right your last pick. Pf T let's try do a Chore Here Okay? My last one is cleaning out the car. That's okay that's sure clean on guard at its. I'm notoriously messy when it comes to my car is when I used to have them and so Yet cleaning those things like getting old Taco Bell Straw rappers. Their Straw represent French fries. Underneath your seat that have been there for like ten years that you'll never get out the whole process vacuuming walking back and forth to your house would like a trash bag filled with the stuff. You WanNa keep the trash bag filled with stuff you wanNA throw away. It's just an all around bad time. Good pick good. Pick Hank your last. Pick not rake. I mean raking leaves things but also like them when you have to move leaves like you have just piles of leaves in your front yard. You'RE GONNA take them out back so they can get rid of them now as always miserable. Yeah what about mowing the lawn? Anyone Isla that's saying I was alluding to it joining. There's a few chores are actually awesome. That you should sign up for and I wrote down. I mean walking the dog. Obviously that's great shore Washing the cars a great chore. Because there's nothing like Washington or you feel very accomplished. You get to be outside. It's kind of a cool feeling to just wash that soap opera car Underrated great shore setting the table. Because it's very easy and it also probably gets you out of doing the dishes. Maybe maybe I always forget which side the four clubs on matter though. But it's it's that setting the table. Is that perfect spot where setting the table is essentially like being a seventh inning reliever. That doesn't have a lot of pressure. You're not the starter you don't have to cook. You're not the closer you don't have to do the dishes. You just gotTa put out one inning and maybe like a couple hits get it given up like putting the fork in the knife on the wrong side but it's very very hard to blow the entire game when you're the table center. I don't mind vacuuming the house either. Vacuuming is okay. It's kind of like the indoor version of mowing the lawn. Where you have your rose. You got your stripes. You clean things up. It's a little bit satisfying. I hate scrubbing the walls. Now let people don't have to scrub the walls. Because why would you put with a big dog that shakes a lot of butter on the walls and the peanut butter thereafter? Put It on the walls to help him navigate house scrubbing. The walls is has become a very big problem and also last one. I had that I think I think he can be characterized as good one taking out the trash because it's not very hard but it's it's seeming. It's it looms large in the world of chores and it's probably the easiest one that looms large. Yeah you know what a power move is going to somebody's house and not even asking them but taking their trash out for them and then putting a trash bag back in there. You're now ahead of field. Yates in terms of serial killer. It's it's a power move though especially if you do like a like a girlfriend's parents house boom instant soup. Don't never touch another man's trash. That's I think that's a girlfriend's parents. They look at that and they're like okay. This guy has all put together. He can identify when charge. Soy What we learned here is that. Pf Do you think moving is a chore? But I'm doing taking out the trash. Another person's house is just like commonplace. Nam saying like kind of an Alpha move very bizarre. I feel like a because then. The person thinks themselves man. I should've taken the trash out earlier. I can't believe. Pf T like town house taking out my trash. Just show up. I don't they don't even invite me over. I just break into peoples houses and and sanitize all right. Let's get to our deep dive with Billy Football Before we do that to you got a quick ad. Yes before we get to billy or a great friend doing a deep dive. I WanNa talk to you guys about Bugsy. You've heard the name from US before. Muggings the only jeans we wear. I'm rocking mind right now. They feel great. They look like jeans. They feel like sweatpants. It's not an exaggeration. We don't know how the guys at Muggsy did it. But their genes totally feel like sweatpants. That had sex with even more comfortable sweatpants and somehow had an awesome jeans baby so mugsy was started by a student who is tired of being uncomfortable in his genes. His goal was simple. Reinvent men's jeans to look good and feel outrageously comfortable. And after five years of working with industry experts he perfected genes for the common man. The magic is in mugs proprietary Denham. It's made from a bunch of high tech materials that make these genes mind-blowing Lee soft and crazy flexible and better. They come in a stylish fit. That's not too bad. You but not too tight. Sue Somehow look even better than you feel if you WANNA look good endorsed for yourself or your partner if you want to look good for your boss on that important zoom call. Well then you need to choose mugsy. They're sweeping the nation for good reason. I'm serious these genes are so comfortable with the jeans. That own right now. Besides my Jink owes besides the clutch genes are muggsy jeans. A through all my other pairs out. I've never been happier my clauses filled with super comfortable denim. Do your legs favor head to Muggsy Dot Com? Mud S. Y. DOT com? Check out their full line of jeans and they have safer. Were Chino's new sizes new styles. Use Promo Code. Pmt FOR TEN BUCKS OFF. It's a beer on us. And a pair of the most comfortable ever made by heading to Muggsy Dot Com using Promo Code. Pmt Okay it is time. It is Monday. Billy's deep dives. He's got cats rolling all over him and I don't know what's going on billy you I'm trying to contract talks. Oh plasmapheresis okay. So let's that today's deep dive. We also have a bonus Mount Rushmore for billy but please the floor is yours Taco plasmapheresis okay. He's banging red bull so I got a bunch of kittens and was telling me. Yo you're gonNA catch talkshow PLASMAS. It's GonNa make you crazy. I'm like Whoa so I started. Googling TACO PLASMAS turned out. Everyone's been thinking of it the wrong way. Forty five percent of the population has this parasite called Talkshow Moses. That comes from cat feces and just like cleaning up. Keyword suffering cat scratchers. I got a bunch of cat scratches. These guys. So then Seville. Billy forty five percent of Americans at large have forty-five TACO plasma forty five percent of cat owners of the world have talk show plasmapheresis. What yet in like eighty percent of France has talked so plasmapheresis. Germany has talked supplies. Moses like tons of people talk show classrooms and so it was like Yo what like what is so google it and turns out it like it only breeds and cat stomachs right and makes might like in part of his mice catching a lot in. It makes the MICE NOT FEAR PREDATORS. So they just wandering on than the cats union. It's like A. It's like a pressure thing but like this isn't actually a bad thing if you contract talks to the pies Moses it basically means you're fearless. Yeah so I was like. Y'Know I wouldn't be fearless like now's like and then of course I was like the beserk or cult. Everyone has to contract talks. Oh plasmapheresis and we'll all just be fearless resercher words. You won't fear needles. I passed out giving blood the donate blood on Wednesday and then on Monday but like it's a video of it. Dale took it. It was can you inject? Can you just talk so plasmapheresis? Gen All around these cats. Just like cleaning up then like Chine hails from the Keeler. That's how you catch it so when I don't do that most I will be an absolute fearless warrior and it'll be sick okay. So but all right the downside. Yeah what are the downsides? There has no. I'm looking at right now. Here I can read you down so I can give you like just off. The top of my head with a downside might be is like people have fear for reason. The emotion fear was created for recent. That's to keep us alive. So maybe like not you're basically describing that guy that we've all seen cops that takes off all his clothes and runs into traffic and tries to get into fights with semi trucks. Right like you should be afraid of that circa mode brow. What do you think we're trying to do here? Okay so talk so plasmapheresis fatigue pregnant. You can't be pregnant. Fatigue headaches Let's see body aches. Fever swollen lymph nodes people have a weak immune system may have were symptoms include confusion Blurry Vision I don't I don't know if you want this now. You're looking at the wrong way. So like it's like an ancient parasites and around for millions of years and cats are using it as a bioweapon like I have like we all get with this like look. This thing turns out have long hair. Tabbies which are basically Bob. Cats like whatever this barn cat like like the author was a long haired tabby which like who knows neuter it because it was just like the one it's kittens because their kids are like five hundred dollars a pop which is crazy but I ended up outside the barn which is crazy. That's way too much weight. You're going to sell those five hundred dollars going to sell those. Hey My grandmother okay this to a special friend of mine in one of them's going coach now. I don't have a Gr. Don't talk to girls okay So billy pull on art. Cats like notoriously skittish. I feel like cats are very fearful of everything and French people too by the way. That's what it's like. Everyone you just listed is doesn't have the good parts of talk so plasmas well. I think they're just not look bad. Mindset the friendship terrible mindset. So so billy but how is that an advantage so so the cat gives the mouse? Taco PLASMAS in the mouth. How does how but how does a cat give a mouse toxic plasma before it captures it who who being everywhere and then the mice are running around and then then so then the miser just like fuck you kitty cat fucking pussy? Oh I think I get it. So it's like so if I can relate this to Pacman when PAC man eats the proton dot that gives. The ghost talks. Oh plasmas and they just wander into pacman. Pacman crushes exactly. Oh okay okay. God put but from what I'm understanding. You're thinking that you can like basically hack a disease so it's not a disease it's the mindset so like for instance if we're like hey billy we got this. New Disease called polio. It's so sick you'll never like sprain your ankle again. Use the placebo thick. You'll never walk either but you'll never sprain your ankle because you can't feel anything. No I mean that's the less around type of disease. Let's say rabies okay rabies. Yeah what's a good rabies monsoon like you have rabies and rabies? It means. I'm an absolute cycling to do like go. Do like superhuman stuff. No not you know as good point if you get rabies. You've probably never going to drown because you're terrified of water. I might try contract rabies before like rough and rowdy or something and just like go. Why don't you just well? I don't want to tell you what to do but it sounds like you just really WanNa do Angel Dust. I Know No. I don't do what I don't touch drugs. Drugs drugs that just cat drugs yet. I have friends to do the drug. What else did you learn about TACO plasmas anything? Oh a lot of people in motorcycle. Accidents have it because think about bikers actually a lot of bikers have it and they had no idea they find it like it's ants. I looked up. It's answered total evidence. Just assume just assume that these bikers who have talks with Plasma Moses because like like you definitely had talk supplies Moses Evil knievel up could even shirt all the guys in Jackass. Yes slavo toxic PLASMAS. I'm working on my cult. Everyone's not talk show plasmas donating blood like crazy. Working out like crazy is like housing kneels in like drinking economically. It's going to be sick and his oliver like an awesome. 'cause of fighting the blood shortage. I love this. I love her. I I keep I keep trying to put together. What the Berserk or blood colas and what? Your total in goal is in this billy like. Do you want to be looked at as the leader? Are you want to be looked at as just one of many people in this call one of many who are giving their blood to fight the lead shortage right now. Okay got I have? I have some bad news for you. Billion this is just something. I just googled real quick. If you have talks. Oh Plasma says you can't give blood for at least six months until you're cleared of it. That's that's a little hiccup that's people who don't believe in talk show. Okay all right all right but I was written by a scientist with a terrible sade right. Donal evidence yes. Okay good we go back. Go back real quick to the bikers. That like antidotes. They all have talks plasmas. Yeah why? Why do they have such a high prevalence of ECON-? The people who ride bikes are furious. Okay I got it. So it's like a correlation does not equal causation statistics. Gotcha okay okay. This is I love this. I love this. I'm in all right so billy. You also have a mount rushmore for us right once. So we're going to do my favorite mega-fauna extinct animals so mega-fauna you find a lot of mega-fauna today in Africa. But back in the day used to be mega-fauna every you wear but what is this is the megaphone megaphone is big ass like units of animals that used to roam the earth and the only ones that exists. Now are the ones in Africa because they grew up with humans so they know how to deal with them whereas what we spread out in like when everywhere like they're like Yo who's this guy and we were like. Yeah we have spears swing like just like and so then you had like Hugh Wyllie Rhinos Willie mammoths giant slots. That were like huge. We had giant birds and there was like smiled on like they were like lines in North America. That were called like just like lions who liked cold so then my favorite ones are cave bears or rocks which are like huge bulls. That are sick talks. Don's which are basically like Orange Rhino and look like ride on the POK MON. And then there's this last one star cast on which is like a cross between a giant Hyena. Vagary his name Sarcasi- Sarcastic Don. That sounds like a poker cast casted. That sounds like a really really. Cool animal jude. Animals awesome sick animal bill. Oh No it's real quickly you'd imagine you're wandering through actually looks like a bad ass badgered. Big Cat oh sarcastic night. All right so give us your mount rushmore that sarcastic talks Don. A there or off. Ooh That is a sick ASP badger. Okay all right so make sure Liam that you got those that will throw out flush more on the side. Billy this has been great man wrote I. I've been playing playing wars since nine. Am this morning for thirty okay. What about that about the giant baby is that giant baby beds? Mcgowan around the Internet on a megaphone. I WANNA find that baby in start putting creating and way protein in it's like formula and then make it like an all pro left tackle. I don't know why who's their parents like. Why haven't you taken this baby and started doing like that's child abuse to not make this baby allow Shot Abuse to not be abusing this child putting it to. Where would you put this giant baby? Yeah this is your Sandra Bullock. This is the blindside to porno. So we'll put the baby with my kittens. I'll feed it train it like and then like this baby's GonNa be like it's it needs to start eating creating in way protein right now because it's either going to be a powerlifter left. Tackle Maybe D. Tackle or you make more money at left tackle or or WWF wrestler. But like he needs to be put on striving now where he's not. GonNa you know where we can put this giant. Yeah it's actually going to be worse for the kid from a health standpoint if it doesn't become a professional athlete because you know how grading that would be on. Let's just say that you're a seven foot tall three hundred fifty pound dude walking around every time you meet somebody. They're like. Oh what sports. Do you play. Psychologically that would be devastating on you if you weren't a giant giant. I like it so now. We're in breeding and toxin PLASMAS. I feel like this is going perfectly. Gillies going to kidnap a child and then Take fifty percents career. What else what else. Well was The friggin oh I have a really good idea I want I need I need I. Can I have a small loan? How small am I? Shall we talk about enough to create a supplement line? Ooh is who want to help. Other guys get jacked up in not lied the rain city. Jack's yeah what GonNa do is actually tell them like. Yo you want to get as sick pump alley argon like an actually give it to him no fillers and then we'll make crisis cry fuel like legit like we get like meat protein mix with Tori. It's regard is it's our guys were in crisis but WANNA maintain mass like let states like a pandemic of course for your average dude like finals. Like you're studying library can't really eat. You're just drinking crisis you'll time like road trips or like or what else. What else We're a gaming gaming. I mean Thanksgiving I wanna I wanna make your saying were. Yeah I WANNA make a beef jerky with Taurine. It a cat so you can just steaks can maintain mass in St Jack and everyone's abusing stimulants during these times so we should just give them something healthy keeps them. Jackie keeps them energized. Okay so billy I like all these like we're heads at we also need you To come up this week. We're going to have you do a twitch workout body weight for all the Bros sweet all right preserver co workout. Yeah Body Weight. Only everyone will tune in and war. And you'll walk us through it. He can guide join my cult. Dokes other people that know the secret. Great all right. Well maybe hold off some bikers by tuning in you accepted mission to Billy's Berserk. You've got to get and then you and then billy we can do a capital call on all of the. The people tuned it. Yes we can. Just take their money back. How much money are we talking about and define loan you give me money. I make crisis fuel okay. How much mighty need I need around. Okay run the numbers and tell us next Monday billy next. Monday's deep dive. How about a presentation investors? Possibly you okay. I also have an APP idea. Okay save it for Monday. We'll go next Monday. We're going to do shark tank. Billy football version ideas. I just come up with I to save them all for Monday. Thank you billy. Especially where today to talk to their billing. We'll go for a war zone win part of my go to be apt to be a Monday. Ubs they all right. We will see everyone on Wednesday Levy guys. No the Code Jameis Winston down and dollas such a fine side to see no longer drinking the centers. Our saying up on Bourbon Industry back enough. Drew BREES DOWN. Here is now time to fix the and.