20 Episode results for "Morocco"

Border Wars 7 Texas Unguarded with Morocco Joe

Tha Boxing Voice

00:00 sec | 10 months ago

Border Wars 7 Texas Unguarded with Morocco Joe

"Immature audiences the views and opinions expressed are those of the panelists and do not reflect. Anyway those are the podcast partners. Sponsors or affiliates enjoy hi this is Michael Buffer and you're listening to the voice of the people. Let's get ready for boxing. Voice could've been anywhere in the world which would mean me. The EU announced you into the boxing voiced radio. Join US every Thursday and Sunday live at seven PM Eastern in time voice dot com. All right all right all right welcome back ladies and gentlemen to another episode of unguarded. It is the Board Award series. We have our episode of unguarded where we sit down with one of our border wars fighters and get get to know a little bit more about them. kind of taking a page out of Andre Ward in tarrant Crawford's book today we will be featuring none other than new fighter wider introducing Morocco Joe so Morocco Joe men first things first. Where exactly are you from? I live in Virginia right now. But what My family's from Morocco Marrakech Morocco. You know The Element Virginia. Like the lesson part of Virginia right now. And what got get you into boxing. Overall all man when I was a kid man the seem her man. He's your many better. You'll see somebody make make us a lot on. TV knocking people out so it was definitely a worth to watch. I Love Lucy moment all right so that was when you were a kid. How old are you now? I'll I'll be thirty one on the fight day. I'm thirty right now. All right nice and young still gotcha youthfulness with through so what what's given you. I guess the gene motivation. Climb inside the ring Because it's easy to be on the outside telling fighters to do what you want them to do but to actually climb. I'm in there and do it yourself with what's giving you that courage. Maximum sound crazy but it supermax breath. I asked that's one of the reasons why I kinda wanted to lock them Muslim Just because man. I just wanted to reason to try it for real men. I like hitting people you know I might as well do it without getting going to jail or getting. Well yeah that's much reason to try and get off the couch. I work in an office so man I eat a lot of. Randy's Shit stop during the best way to do that is hit somebody in the face of the man. I definitely agree because if I don't gotTA fight. I will elite fast food every time girl wants so you right. So you're in West Virginia. Hello I'm never January. I'm doing the west part of it. Okay you're in so tell me Are there any local box gyms or you're going to be able to get some training. Also there's a there's a bunch most of his MMA though men around here Throw enhances likes tenure though Brussel. The hands are fine. I I know I know what I'm doing. Now wait a minute. You know what you're doing or are we Sandbagging supermax exor. Is it going to be an even fight. Because I don't want you in there were supermax and then you're all overly talented in in blowing out. The I wouldn't say that I wanted to say that man I never never fought like a sanctioned event or not like that you know what I'm saying so he got a one up on your on some experience but I've never been a stranger to fight on. I'm saying I'll look for trouble but I hope you find it fun to avoid Roy doing that and trying to grow the more positive way you know what I'm saying. Alright all right so well. What's your statistics highway? So I'M GONNA try to be at around two forty five fifty for the fight I'm about six hundred sixty one I'll ever reached though I think I definitely will have them on to reach mothers Kinda to move around a little bit job on the death through I don't want to give away to formula. But that's what I'm trying to do. I'm pretty sure I got by at least five or six inches honorees. Wow I got arms-length definitely definitely so now your original opponent was supposed to be a South Pole forty six year old guy. Six three two hundred lean lean pounds. That didn't happen when I'm still with if he wants to go after I'll fight supermax I mean you gotTa Win not to say the same about the same row UPI getting fight club for real. Well I'll tell you what he is going to be in the building watching closely is sounds like he might already have of another fight lineup with with DR Congo in the future. But that doesn't mean anything you know there's plenty of heavyweights and once you get this first one off the public is going to be action to see. You know. We'll see what happens right supermax at a lot of goals. I would say right like he had this four fight I plan and then boom. He got a drill so that kind of set him back. And now here you are. You're not part of his plan. So you just never know things change at the blink of an eye but I know that when I spoke to you you said you never sparred but you fight in the basement so you are like the true essence of Brad. Pitt's fight club. which is something? We'd like to talk about around here so talk to me a little bit about this fighting in the basement and how's how's it look. Walk me through that Los Angeles. That's going to be the best way but I mean we got three minutes. We tell each other heads. It's on looking at like seventy percent or eighty percent. Don't want to sign the hurt. Nobody you know what I'm saying so it's always been. I think the best way to say is like restricted. You no no one is throwing the right hand for real like that. You know like that's not the goal hurt nobody because we all phrase so it's not you know nobody's trying to hurt nobody. There's going to be a little bit different. I'm I'm apply one hundred. I'm trying to get knockout like I'm not trying to you. Know not get a knockout. I hear you man. I definitely definitely here you. Everybody wants to look their best. Specially now that we're giving out awards now You signed up warning supermax but you're a build on that a little bit like I watched the video of new talking about somebody pulling out or not. Be Prepare to fight supermax. He said that he was not going to have an opponent or something happen And then I posted on Youtube comment that I'll take you know I've been watching your show for a long time. I never really thought to get involved. You know but like my messy with respect for me respect and support a box in a lot of work so I wanted to go without a fight especially coming talk town. So I'm down to trade when a trade you know now for sure for sure. Yeah that's what I was just trying to you know. Get a an idea of of your reason behind choosing Supermax as your opponent because he had a lot of options you know. He likes to think of himself as the a side. Godley though right yeah. You don't WanNa be arturo guiding united saying but he wants to continue to be the a side man So thirty one got a great story. It sells itself man. It does this inspection a man who will lose God. It's it's it's definitely isn't enough to the is off the couch. Oh God for sure man So who's GONNA I guess. Take the role of training. You and are you bringing anyone with you to be in your corner now man Solo Barrowman. Okay Okay we'll definitely have some guys the corner I'm Sal and Eddie and even coach Midi have always helped out people. This is the reason why it's on the East Coast flight. I should have definitely do my hand. We all New Jersey. The distance sprays like it's hard for me to get somebody to come from out here in Virginia to all the way to Texas for the watch. The fight like that's crazy. You know what I'm saying just to be in my corner that's Ta you know and like the only person I will is probably my brother but he lives on the eastern Auto Virginia so he got at the compliment but further. You know so And they got jobs you know. I'm old Nelson. Old are hereby guy can't hold up their life just Get a corner May. Do you know what I'm saying is definitely like the real what it is like. I definitely use. What coach Anthony? I think yes. Yes yes we had him on the show. Saturday coach Anthony. He got a lot of footwork videos that I think because I thought originally I was gonNA fibrous already working like cutting off the ring sucker. I figured he would run away right away. That's a scary. nope I figured he would run away so I was kinda working on that but a a lot of the stuff he has miss this. I'll say anywhere not around here so Is Anyone Gonna be able to train you or do you go in there doing what you've been watching on TV and what you think boxers do in training camp. How do you prepare yourself for the next seven weeks? Really the only thing I know the right hand hurts a lot when it hit somebody so I'm only I'm really trying to work on his combinations and and really with the jets. I'm not trying to give the whole formula way on you know supermax by listen. I'm not trying to grow no run but My friends here. The whole miss form that we just bang you know obviously some footage data to Everything's in the basement man. We try to keep everything in house. I'm not we're trying to pay nobody to to make me work harder. That's not how life works so You're not paying. Somebody hit somebody. I know how to do that that for sure for sure. So using coach Anthony Videos You're definitely not going to get a trainer. Have you ever spar with the mouthpiece and hanging sir. Yes Sir Basement. Everything is like we go restricted headgear. Mouthpiece we all you know nobody trying to you know have a forty forty seven stitch cut on the side of their head while China and sell something of their job. You notice short short. So how many of these basements spar matches. You think you've got the Abell fifteen twenty. Whoa how long you guys been doing draw started for being drunk and just decided to fight because Raleigh boxing? I'm telling you I'm Jay experts so you guys do it lock you guys do it. While you're drunk sometimes. Yeah that's how it started an analysis. 'cause they're actually this. I'm the next video I'll send you is going to be a coach my. JV SPAR HE'S GONNA end up being on this bitch runnin. Running Shit against the wishes wait He could probably come he wants he. He's like he's overweight right now. He probably like ten to fifteen but he could probably be at like one seventy five one sixty destroyed guy. He's got he's got any background or just all natural school now man he just just rob athlete like when he was younger. He was really graphically so he got that high row. See there you go. That's the guy you need to come with you. I got a guy that just hit me. Up has one amateur amateur fight. And he wants to join. He wants to fight for this board awards. And he's he's one eighty one eighty five. He's in shape though he said the problem is the cost solutions restrictive man. It's because Texas swear to you on the east coast time around anyone is co we both in the truck. No questions assume. We're GONNA WANNA keep doing what we're doing trying to get everywhere we went to. La We were trying to get the vegas it all depends on how many people want to join is the only way that we can get a card together but Damn man you definitely Sound like one of those balls to the wall type of guys for sure man. I can't wait to get some some of this footage. I'll be bizarre. I can't man like I'm not trying to like down. Talk anybody anything like that. It's all about respect man. I got a lot of respect for anybody who's willing to a hit in. The face is different a lot of people that call in Talk Shit. I'll never coffee shop and listen to your show for like three years. I've never caught one time. 'cause it's like thank you you. You hit the nail on the head and said one of the Fighters fight talkers. Talk Man like and that's the reality of the situation so the only time I'm trying to show my face I'm not gonNA say nobody's a bomb. 'cause I you gotTa step into the ring right how you're gonNA say somebody's a bomb when you ain't gonNA rounds period so I definitely believe that you're a little bit a lot. More people come back to the east coast bring at least my voyage. AB with no question. Hey man you never know you might blow supermax out the water and people might want you to have that hometown fight Say that man. He's definitely got some scary. I'm not any hit like a mule breath the way your heart is so I'm ready for. I gotta hard. Hey so we'll see man we got some Unguarded questions from your fellow patriots. We Got Salvador the door. I says see no says just WANNA give a shout out to TV. Thanks for all the content. Well thank you Salvador. We got another one from Robert. Genius also bought awards participants. He'll be fighting thing. I won sixty eight versus machine gun. Matt who is the brother of your opponent Joseph Supermax so Rob Agena says. Do you still plan on fighting in in St beefs. Oh we're supposed to fight in st bees not maybe We had an opponent opponent told us about that thing he confused you arrive. Update your question. We got INFO Joe also a border wars opponent from la one of our our oldest participants to about fifty seven or fifty five. Hopefully fifty one does like I like I like Latte for sure man so he says what up Morocco. Joe Cool Name. What made you want to join board awards? Do Your friends and family support you. My mom thinks stupid things even like my whole family really like boxing man e and my grandma she really liked boxing to is just kind of how it is like they they know I liked to fight so might as well do it in a way. That's not going to get me in trouble. Plus I'm I'm thirty years old out here. May I can't be can't be out here in the street fighter. Nobody so mas look at the aggression out somewhere else families would it for the most part. My sister's a little bit wary. I got pictures. Mexicans only big. I'm therefore I'm never to smoke. I got a question I know you said you take care. That's USA approved. Yes he will say boxer. I'm going to send you a picture of what it looks like And you know these are the brands That I use like I I have ever less pretty cheap. Like fifty dollars on is a hag you but it's like it's not going to be. USA approved or whatever. I know that the reason we want. USA approved is because we can't can't have different headgear and also because some some some people had the bar other people had the ear protectors. So you know one man. We'll have more padding or protection than another one so we just try to keep a universal by everybody having having USA. Boxing approved one. Essential Six Everlasting USA. Boxing approved Wednesday. Those are cheek protectors ninety protected. Open face Even the train and runs all other work. USA Box and improve title also is a very cheap Distributor they they do USA. Boxing approve. And I mean everyone does but you gotta just make labels on there but I sent you that one and I the biggest thing. I was just worried about his vision. Like the head gear. I got the Vision on. It sucks so I'd like to early so I can kind of see this the what I can see you know. What does that make sense? I mean no no definitely understand what you're saying. But what kind of Hagan would you got cheap protectors or you got the bar. How how was your vision impaired to brush? I mean I can't think of the brand. I don't got all downstairs trying to walk down but yeah no. It doesn't have the bar or like a cage or whatever it comes with the cage but we took out early but it's like it's a cheek protector definitely but the vision is just terrible. Arable online vision. It's tough but it's Eh may based on pretty sure 'cause I was just like cheap to get you know what I mean so But the what I saw the picture you sent me is going to allow better than what I got. Caught those quick so I could get used to the vision for sure. I mean look worse case scenario. There's going to be plenty there if you want to save money. There's going to be plenty NIA fighters were USA. Boxing approved headgear. You personally use mines. I'll probably be fighting before you just so that I can Can you you know record and commented and things like that So you know you have a question about the record in life Just to show the people that don't have patriarch. Can the real copy of the shit right like like amp four. Whatever we don't do that we do only put it on Patriot and then release it when the next season in his out? But I I don't know I guess we could try. Try to do something for you figured out. Don't sweat it So we got Eddie autograph. Autograph signed Nevada is in Las. Vegas was my opponent he says. Give me your three fight plan if everything goes your way. Well if I knock out Superamerica America sometime good at you next. So that's two phase so then I guess as me and then a defense Rami whoever's next. ABC G. Man. Anybody can I feel like I'm not going to find out if I lose. That's the crazy part loss. Anybody who tell you. They never lost in the fight and never fought that much. It has the right person. I'm here so hard in my head. Just a star is everything so like. I'm not really worried about losing a linen But I definitely I'm GonNa make the next one and make the national regardless. I'll be in a minimum of three clunkers. It's just a great reason to train. Man This is something to do. You know like Bro. It is fun Bro and believe me of your boxing fan when you get together with twenty thirty forty boxing fans like real real boxing fans you the people that know boxing. We're GONNA WE GO E. Pizza because after the fight we definitely pig out so we go pizza. You got like twelve different conversations since you gotta table. There's fifty feet long. Everyone's talking in every conversation is is hot because everyone knows boxing. It's a lot of comedy it's like I really wish that everyone had and I and we're going to have to do what's that chat to start including the android people because we bill bonds in those chats with these people I mean fuck sows sows in fort once. But he's been in that chat three years so that's my man right all ready. You know what I mean you know. It's like crews like I know cruises wife is having a baby right now because he's in the taffer like four years or some some shit like that so we've just established these relationships is is all fun and Games. you see mov an aunt went at it and you know they back in a chat like like buddies and and and cruising you know aunt went added and me and whoever you know is is is boxing but we still have this family going on in there and UH yeah man is just just official. But I got a bunch of questions for you. Eric crews tried to offer you to I said cruise you Morocco Joe. He was talking about. He wanted to fight the heavyweight but he is having a baby in February so he decided not to fight he says Joe. Welcome to the border wars family. What are your goals for? This border wars other living getting the win. And what is your opinion about your opponents last fight so if I was it was a little bit while you know what what I'm saying wild but watch but Dan Lewis a light. It was action fight and I think he'd like to me like hands man and that's he's not going to be timber but I I think my main goal is to probably be is really just a drop about forty and then my eventual go to be around to twenty just in general like like Superman supermax is definitely just the reason to train man you know. Get off the main motivation but man looking looking at Supermac last fight man. Just I got to be ready for Unorthodox Angle of a right now. That's really all I'm looking at. You know worried about leaving my head a little bit. Plus I heard him say early on last radio show that he worked in really on his defense and not just a van archer. Oh God you know what I'm saying so I gotTa work on my accuracy a little bit but that it with the Movement I. I think we'll be able to get them. I mean the accuracy angles the movement. I think it will be able to go. I hope it's a knockout but I'll take a decision to I'm I'm just trying to win man. That's it man. Listen Floyd said at the best of win is a win is a win. Listen what is your plan to get the weight off. Because you're like to sixty five so you WANNA take off twenty five pounds or you're going to run. Do you. Like running Rodney. That's already Habash so I started training win. There was a discussion about bishop already. So I'm already like the. It shouldn't be hard man. Just my diet is really changed up. And that's another thing. This difficult is GonNa die for no reason. I know you bre with Uber. I want me some papa all edges. Good I'M A. I'm a red meat lovers so I'll fuck up some ribs so I do and I'm like you. I need a reason I need a reason. So I'm I'm very listen. I'm more oh I think I'm I'm I'm I'm one of the happiest guys so many heavyweights Asandra because at least that means I'll get a fight again and can continue to stay in shape because I like boxing. You know what I'm saying you ain't GonNa win them all but just just. The training aspect is fun being in that Jim too because my gym I got a couple of pros then in our big names. You know they don't have any any nationals. And I like that but they work in their way up in the conversations always. I like being in the gym. I get to see the spot Oren. My Gym is lucky enough. Every now and then we do get some pros like I have ran into the ADORNO brothers that are assigned top rank in my gym. I'm like I didn't even know that was them. Am until I seen him on TV. Like Oh shit. Coach T. those dudes are he's like you know because it was little as oh but yeah man so I i. I'm happy man. I like that I'm like you. I need a fight or else I'm GONNA eat fucking a snickers blizzard at Gary Gary Quinn ice cream ice cream extra snickers bra. I'm telling you right now if I didn't got no reason I'm I'm GonNa get fat Alma. Get fat that's but I mean you know also I think like it's Kinda strange but a lot of people who aren't really exposed to boxing like they think it's just I'm GonNa go like rough and rowdy and just go parts of you know what I'm saying that's not the goal is still a sport. You know what I'm saying. It's just like it's just like China. For trying to play soccer chocolate it's a camaraderie to realize it or not. Because you hit the person in front of you obviously which are both went through the bullshit of training both went through the bullshit of eating right now both went into the bullshit of running. You know what I'm saying so that it's a it's a bond. I know for a fact when somebody that you respect and you hit him in the face. It's a bond. That's a little bit different so it's about respecting about the sport minutes and as I wrote about fucking couch breath real. So that's the main motivation to rat all at a question Eh. Now absolutely man but once you get lean and trim believe me is going to change. The focus is going to change the winds and wins and wins Endo. It's always on the way we got higher sil- Who's going to be taking our Marvin for all the belts He says what's your mindset going. I'm in have you seen tape on your opponent. If so what's your thoughts. I mobile job. Get an angle the right hand. That's the only thing I'm trying to do. I mean ask my thoughts. Just duck duck out of my supermax with the super chat saying just hand us the two thousand Twenty Five Year award to us now the opera if he comes out there and he's ready to Bang and we were standing motoring. I'm not I'm going to stay in the mode right. It's just what she hit all the work now a garage the window and you just fighting right bang. I'm going to be ready to. Thanks now you do it in a basement. So how big is the room is obviously smaller than the ring. That's a fact. I like fighting in in a little bit of a phone booth. You're already well versed in Vienna. Gene inside fighter sat out the Santiago was going on my man shot out the James Toney road. That's that's associating suicide in our work. Jay Tony Building. All right. Let me see we got some more here. We got another one coming from Jordan Baker also but it was fighter in Florida. Florida Fort Myers says. What's the reason you started boxing? That's led a smart man against to get off the couch man. I'll tell you what I'm GonNa tell you the story about. Why really got stuck on this? Show Man So I'm listening to the show and it was. You might use going at it. I don't know really what what's going on. You'll have some real BC and coverage like the soundboard button automobile number that stay yea I remember I remember the sound bite. I remember that day so I remember episode and I've been listening for like six months or whatever already but I really wasn't you know super total day for Admiral off. These heavy looks like a week. Mike Doc was mia and then he came back. And I was like okay. It's all love is respect even though they talk awhile shit so a lot of a lot so That's really the aretha avocado boxes. John Magas funny so I figured I'd have to. I have to get involved somehow some way and I'm not too much. I'm not trying to call in every day and talk shit about people I never met. You know what I'm saying. That's not me now. That's that's funny man that that day. A lot of people talk about that day We got Sir Bishop which we've been saga amount. A heavyweight southpaw. Also Boorda was fighter. He'll be fighting on the next one. Says shot out to my man. Big Joe who was cooler than an eskimo question. How often do you and your buddies fight for fun down in the basement? I was a mark mark once every two weeks. Depends it depends man like it depends. You know who wants to smoke like it's really about that like whoever wants to get the kind of go from there. But as far as for this I have a set regimen of especially like just because I want to be as ready as possible because it was easy to try and buy yourself offensively but it's difficult to train defensively by yourself you know. It's hard to just keep slipping no punch matchy. You know what I'm saying so Probably forty or fifty. That's a video. It's the best way to school. Say Video At like forty fifty percent safely song get hurt before the fight the That'll probably be sending you that. I could say you wanted to be real now. That would be perfect man Definitely because you you got at least a whole fight of supermax ax. So he wants something on your daily Young Daniels. This says what level experience Do Border Wars fighters APP borrow fighters have all levels of experience we got amateurs with amateur fights an amateur wins and losses. We got semi pros pros. We have former pros and we have complete novice we match accordingly. This board awards is the biggest and Are you still there. Morocco Morocco thing. We lost them. Go go you all right. So yeah this. This border wars We we have about all the talent we can think of former pros semi pros amateurs damages. We have all that available this time so it's going to be one of the best. Boorda was remember we have The WBZ WBA champ camp. Three you know Marvin from Texas going to be making his first defence of those unified belts versus Iron Sal of California. We got Midi of the United Kingdom Kingdom taking on Elias of the. US A mini is a seven zero. MITYA's a semi pro with About seven eight five seven seven seven in one or he should be eight in one at this point would a title in white collar boxing. And he's going to be taking on Elias who has about seven amateur. US boxing fights and then we got done with three amateur boxing fights taking on former pro. Jd from Houston Texas axis and Jaydee had over ten pro fights. Then we got Robert. The Genius Second Fight Novice second second border wars fight novice versus Matt Second Border Wars Fight Novice Matt machine gun from Texas Texas brother of Supermax then we have Colin destroyer. This will be his second fight and he is a second fight novice and Jordan is Owen. Oh never fought before complete novice and then you have myself I have three border wars fights so three novice never an amateur a tra- fights or anything before that and Eddie is a five fight. USA Boxing Amateur. Who I will be taken on from Las Vegas? His amateur is your fights are a good ten years ago though so he has about five or six amateur fights then we have Who Else Southside Ducey Zeno amateur fights second fight novice but very skilled. WBZ TV champ. He's going to be taking on. Ambrose from Texas Zero Zero Fight Novice zero fight. KNOB is so Yeah Ah those are some of the fights on the card and those are some of the level of fighters that we have on the cards. I'm trying to connect back here with Morocco. Joe Joe you there all right. He's back. Yes yes yes Charleena Bro. No problem no problem. I took the time to give Answer that supercharged. He'd just wanted to know what's a semi pro so a semi pro. Oh is a guy that is fighting with no headgear under the lights. He sells tickets to his event but he is not a licensed boxer. Sir It's something that takes place in the United Kingdom. It's called white collar boxing. So Midi coach Midi fights in that they don't use headgear. They use US. You know. Eight ten ounce gloves and it's a real fucking pro fight there under the lights does you walk out with the DJ in the music and all that good should there's ring card girls and there's liquor in everything except you're not a pro so that's what is a semi pro and we definitely consider him a semi pro because We got a lot of his fights on our our paychecks and he fights at a high level without that headgear. So yeah getting back to you. Go Ahead Marco. Well what's a what's the difference. That's just alto to me. I mean he just didn't turn pro. He's not a pro. And the fight is very spiting. The fighters that he's fighting not pro. You know And that's just the difference. That's it but yeah. He's his brother if I could make the woods look as good as white collar bikes and we will be winning so that could be the fire plan. No seriously awesome wild dishes speaking into existence believe receiving. Hopefully that's the fire plan because if if you go on page on and watch his last fight in it does look like a profile in but it looks it. Looks like a bb King's fireeye because it's those type setups where the ring hiring is in the middle but you got the circle tables and you can buy that table and you got your liquor there. So it's you and your whole six seven exactly a club club environment club environment. But unless you're going to be honest it is more fun because you could buy standing seat and instead of sitting down on you you you know I love. BB King's in New York. I I love when Luda shows there if I can make it I go but let me see. We got some more questions for you. We got one one more coming from the newest border wars heavyweight. He will be in the building into watch. What's going on? He's twenty eight six three to ten he says and his name is Ralph from New Mexico. He says I'm with all the heavy way smoke. I WANNA title shot. I WanNa try to Shah And he says Hashtag boxing is art and has tag love him. So we'll be meeting Ralph for the first time. Listen IT'S GONNA you're gonNA retire me. It is what it is. You know what I'm saying I'm GONNA as either. It's either GonNa be you supermax or rail that so for me even bishop though Bishop. Don't you gotTA worry. I'm not I'm not worried about bull that's like that fight is that fight is already one. You know what I'm saying. I'm I'm thinking about CIA because I that's the you're known so maybe I'll stop thinking about you. I once I see fi but right I now statistically your six one you said six warriors six foot long reach less six one to forty you to sixty five. That's heavy that's inside work you know Then you got rail. He's twenty eight six three to ten. That's that's in shape. That's that's youthfulness. That means you know high level multiple punches and then we already seen what supermax brings to the table so you you know. Yeah I'm just I'm I'm I'm I'm not. I'm not disrespecting Eddie for you. Know Look Eddie I gotTA rematch clause. I'm not crazy you you got what what you are you ready her. He'll never let Aj's going to. If I would. I would I be better. Listen and you see Anthony Edwards from Queen City the Cobra. He ain't no more like a garden. Snake he was so tough he rematch. Yeah he was so tough. Rematch clause now look more than moved on. Didn't give them no rematch and his fight. And Sal. So yeah you gotta you gotta you gotTa dodger is and cross your t's as bro but believe me. It's not about what he is doing. What I'm this is a really good cam for me I'm even doing wage this camp something that I've never really been able to do while box and it was either one of the other because it's just so time consuming but yeah and I've been working man. I just been working so you know I'm actually one of those guys that Wants to look better like I want. I Don I look at my fight and I don't one look at my fights so I wanna be able to put a performance on that. I do WANNA rewatch my shit. You know what I mean. I feel proud of it. So I'm just workman recommend. I'm just working until then we'll see what it is. I'll get no sleep on boulevards. I'll sleep on. Hey Sally tally listen. Listen I'm just I'm just I'm just Got Me as the underdog and and that's the crazy thing you know. I get no respect and I'm like wow the bros.. Like everybody I fight is a bomb. Everybody that I fight is going to beat. That's how they got it before I fight him. Everybody's GonNa beat me after fight him. They bump so I just take a one day at a time shutout to build. Yeah Yeah Yeah Dasa Asa so Morocco Joe Man what you WanNa leave the Public Whitman. All the Patriarch Questions I mean what do you WanNa leave your opponent with really manages. Respect all the way around we'll lose Jocelyn every just a refi by heart train hard to me but that's really it may. I don't want anybody thinks it should is a fight. Not as a sport. I'M GONNA try to knock you out. It's still a show on love we know is that I saw. That's really it and like a lot of times it's not a it's not viewed that way and it should be make. I make sure you look at boxing in that light. You know you can't tell the people you want to go into the ring and Talk Shit. We like grab the MIC and call Eh. I don't approach it that way. Majesty's Take Your Business More study sport in Los Angeles and still fuck out. I'm not GonNa talk a whole bunch of sheets for sure for sure. Well there you have it ladies and gents Morocco Joe. He's going to be fighting on board awards. February worry twenty ninth in Dallas Texas versus supermax. WanNa thank everybody. The tuned in and stay okay to for the next episode of border wars unguarded as we still have a few other fighters to get to I see mission impossible in the trash. Shout out to you brother other. I might have five for you man. Hopefully you answer me back on instagram already. And you can let me know that fight weight because I got somebody that will do one seventy they ready to rock and roll. Ah but that'd be set as GTO INSTAGRAM and twitter Morocco. Any social media. And I guess I'll on here I don't I don't fuck with that. You all right but we could be expecting when the Patriots suspect that Sparring Shit GimMe Light because I'm out of town. Not Maybe this week sometime this week at Thursday they have ladies and gents. We're GONNA have awesome spinal miraculous. Joe Pretty similar chairs. All right brother will take it easy. Thank you so much there. You have reason Jen's that's border wars Remember February Twenty Ninth February twenty nine at Scotland down do say.

boxing Morocco Joe US Texas Morocco Eddie Virginia ABC G. Man Los Angeles Morocco Marrakech Morocco Las China Michael Buffer West Virginia EU USA. Jay Tony Building Patriots Robert
Mobituaries with Mo Rocca Season 1 Trailer

Mobituaries with Mo Rocca

02:33 min | 1 year ago

Mobituaries with Mo Rocca Season 1 Trailer

"Your name again. Uh-huh. Raka Morocco's the country. Morocco. And I've got a brand new podcast. It's all about the people who have long fascinated me. The one thing they got in common. They're all dead. The name of my brand new podcast mobile Aries. This first season with Castell y net from the twentieth. Century's greatest entertainer is the greatest he added all he was everything. I mean, he could play any instrument. He could sing he could dance like a maniac. So you were lovers. What was that like fabulous? He's talented in that area as he was. Probably to the founding father who just doesn't seem to get much respect. This guy did everything wrong. So there's no statue. There's no signature on the declaration of independence, all his Kiare instincts were bad in stakes. Okay. From sitcom characters gone too soon. They had to killer instantly, instill, they did not have room in the writing for the older brother because of the fonz became the older brother to our cave. Dwelling human ancestors, if they told me only how much Neanderthal I am. I would have paid twice the amount for the test. You'll learn new things about people. You thought you knew what you wear that the day of your inauguration, Audrey Hepburn died. No, you didn't know you'll learn about people you've never heard of. She's really the Rosa Parks of reort mostly are most Americans have no idea. How much does this store? Amnesia bother you. I mean, it's it's absolutely infuriating. Oh, by the way. The some of the people aren't people at all. We've got this. Majestic trees that do. No harm to anyone someone has chosen to harm. It makes no sense to me. So join me this premier season of mobile Aries, Joey story. For those cuts everything podcast immerse.

Morocco Audrey Hepburn reort Joey
Morocco Clears Disposable Face Masks For Export

Newscast - Africa

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Morocco Clears Disposable Face Masks For Export

"You're listening to the news of our Africa Business. Radio Industry Minister of Morroco. Have Feed Alami on Monday? Said the country has cleared. Disposable face mask for exports after reaching a daily production capacity of ten million daily by twenty four factories during the new virus outbreak. An average of two million miles soda daily in Miracle and the supplement will be it after having secured a strategic stockpile of fifty million mask and Alami told members of parliament. He said reusable. Moscow will also be clamped for export wants miracle sources a stockpile of fifteen million Morocco. Which has been on lockdown since March twenty has made wearing face masks Monday tree since April seven. That was the news at this time Africa. Business Radio you can continue to listen life online at. Www Dot Africa business radio DOT COM or via a mobile APP. Thank you for listening.

Africa Business Alami Dot Africa Africa Morocco Morroco Moscow
Morocco Travel: Beyond Marrakech

Zero To Travel Podcast

1:16:59 hr | 2 years ago

Morocco Travel: Beyond Marrakech

"What absolutely tortures you when you travel. One of mine is totally self imposed. I'm going to share what that's all about in just a second. Plus today, you're going to hear from a professional guidebook writer. How did he in a Brady guidebook? How does that even happen? And what about this destination Morocco? What do we need to know? Or do we need to go wiser such a great place to visit? Why should we go deeper than the usual spots? And how did my guest today end up living in a small village there from San Francisco to Morocco? How does that happen? We're gonna get into it all and much more intimate show right now. Thanks for being here. My friend and welcome to the zero to travel podcast. Listen to zero to travel podcast where we explore exciting travel based work lifestyle and business opportunities, helping you to achieve your wildest dreams. Now, you'll host world wonder and travel Junkin Jason more. Hey there it's Jason with zero to travel dot com. Welcome to show, my friend. Thanks for hanging out tuning in letting me bring a little travel in two years. This is the show to help you travel the world on your terms to fill your life with as much travel. You desire. No matter what your situation or experience. Are you ready to gallivant off to Morocco today? We're having a bit of a destination episode. We're going to cover much more than just the destination, including my guests story and how he ended up there in the first place his life as an ex pats, plenty of tips and different perspectives. Coming your way today. I I wanna talk to you about this thing that tortures me when I travel sometimes, and it is totally self imposed. I I want to quickly Bank Tortuga backpacks for supporting today's show if you go to zero to travel dot com slash Tortuga. You're gonna find some incredible backpacks and travel gear the ones that I use. It's the holidays. Now at the time of this recording. If you're looking for gift for somebody or yourself, you can get ten percent off any Tortuga backpack or any of their gear with the promo code travel. Just for being a listener of this show if you enter the promo code travel when you check out just the word travel. You'll get ten percent off any of the Tortuga backpacks. I'm looking at my Tortuga set out right now, which I just used the other day to go into the city and record a live podcast. That's coming at you fairly soon. So I put all my gear and there and had my work stuff and put my computer and the computer sleeves to great little pack for setting out into the city or for a weekend. Use the outbreak over for longer trips and shorter trips as well, I used the day pack from Tortuga pretty much every day to work from coffee shops and just around town. These things are awesome. You're gonna use them when you travel, and when you're at home doing your little excursions and your little adventures check it out zero Trump dot com slash tour to ten percent off. With the promo code travel, enter the word travel when you check out, and if you get anything you also be supporting this show. So I thank you very much for that. Okay. What tortures me when I travel. I'll tell you one thing that drives me, absolutely nuts. And like I said it is self-imposed because technically I can change things around in not allow this. And I know you can relate to this. If you've been traveling before you've definitely been in this situation before when you land somewhere or get somewhere, and for whatever reason, you have a limited amount of time there, maybe you're at the end of your trip. Maybe you have some business thing you have to go to or you have to get back for work. Maybe you just said you'd meet a friend somewhere, and you only have a few days, and you get to a place, and you haven't done much research or you're not really quite sure what it is just kind of a stopover, and it turns out. Wow. There's a lot of stuff to see here. I'm feeling this place. I want to stay here for a month or two months or six months, or at least a few weeks to explore. But you can't you can't. 'cause you gotta get going and just a few days that happened to me in Morocco. We had this trip books, and it was actually mazing present from my wife. So I certainly cannot complain we were in Marrakesh, and we spent a handful of days there. And I started reading about the atlas mountains and all the different adventures around there, and the places to go, and my mind started going crazy. And I felt oh this is torture. I want to go do all this stuff. It's right there. I can just hop on that boss. I can hop in that plane I can get there, and I can have these adventures, and I could just adventure here for months on end just get lost. But we were only there for handful days. And that's why I was so excited to bring on my guest today to talk about Morocco because this was one of those places for me. And that's certainly happened to me for a variety of reasons. The ones I mentioned and other reasons just being in a place and not being able to quite go. His deep as you want. You feel me on that? Have you been there? I'm sure you've been there before it's torture. Right. But self-imposed yet could rearrange my schedule, and you can cancel things and make things happen. But you know, oftentimes, it's a little more difficult. And then you just have to save it as a place to come back to it. That's the upside of this. You know, anytime I get that feeling of torture. And I just can't go the places I wanna go and see everything here. I think what you know what let's bookmark this. Because now this is a place. I get to come back to and explore further and be excited about returning to so never leave things unexplored a bit. So you ever excuse good reason to go back there, you have it. Let's get into today's show. I'll see you on the other side, my friend. My guest today is the author of the moon travel guide to Morocco today. We're going to get tips on traveling through that country plus here about life as an ex Pat father in Paris and much more. I'm looking at his face right now. It's Lucas Peters. And you can find his work at Lucas, m Peters dot com. Lucas welcome to the zero to travel podcast, my friend, and thanks for having me on zero to travel man here. Well, you sent me an Email because I really appreciate it this because you were totally disagreeing with something. I said in a previous episode because my wife, and I did an episode about seven travel tips for traveling with toddlers and one of the things we said is hey, maybe considered leaving the stroller behind. And you were like, no, dude. Like, yeah. I agree with you on this stuff. But like the stroller thing I'm going to have to disagree with you. And then you came with all these points. And I was like now he's convinced me about the stroller thing. And then I was looking into who you are. And what you do. And I was like, oh, this sounds like you have really. Diverse background terms of travel, and you moving around a lot, and yeah, I thought it would be great to have you on as an expert in Morocco because that is one of the countries that I put on another episode did with my wife about countries that we visited that we want to go back to and Morocco is one of those places that I don't feel like I've seen enough of. So I was wondering if you ever imagined that you would hear yourself being introduced as a guidebook writer. No. As a traveler is that something that you aspire to at some point or did it just sort of happen? Honestly, it I was trying to avoid. You know, you grow up. I grew up in Seattle Washington where you know, a stone's throw away from the home of Rick steves. So I grew up with the Rick steves NBN as kind of quintessential travel writer in a way, you know, he starts with the kind of bootstrap traveling around Europe. And then you go through all that. And. Where he is today, which is very much not bootstrap travel anymore. It's not it's not, you know, she's string dentist, it's not a any sort of traveling other. There's a couple of pointers to earn his books, but you know, he's kind of Asia with his audience a little bit. And when I first started traveling a lot of people, I was quite a bit younger, and Rick steves was already kind of a generation beyond me. And so I I don't know. Like, I read a couple of guidebooks didn't like them thought, they give me bad information. And so I thought I'd have nothing to do with this industry that wasn't Morocco. And I was with a older night. And it was the two thousand nine it moved in two thousand and the month before I went as like, okay, I'll do the smart by guidebook. I haven't looked at a guidebook in five years it'll steer right at the very least I'm gonna be living there. So I need some sort of information, you know, and unfortunately, that particular interational guidebook was just full of outright. It lies just really really bad information all the way around. I mean, we're not talking like the prices stuff that can change but outright falsities. Living any fron this little village in the middle of them rock mountains. Not a lot of people there to three thousand people most guidebooks give it one or two paragraphs. There's not a lot to do. Although it's very popular with Moroccan tourists. But the one thing that have there is this old a stone mind, it's a whole big karston line and the lonely planet had written that don't take your picture there because the cops might arrest you, you know, something to that effect. You know, like the cops were there to stop you from taking pictures of this online and having lived there for a month or so and having read this having seen everybody and their mother and their mother's mother and their mother's mother's mother's whether grandchildren taking pictures in front of the stone line with the cops right there. I realized that in fact, the cops were only there to direct traffic, and in fact, would happily even take your photo if you were there. So, you know, it's it's it was stuff like that. That's just joking, and that's a away after a couple of years have just reading a lot of things about Morocco that we're either wrong or. You know, maybe off the Mark or maybe a colored a little to quote, unquote, exotic I've thought, hey, why don't I start writing kind of my version of Morocco, which I hope is it more culturally, informed and. And. Demar on the nose. So this week. Why think this is where the internet and the rise of travel blogs, and sort of the I wouldn't say the downfall of guidebooks. But when you now have a physical paper guidebook like you said prices, go on a date pretty quickly. It takes time just to get it. And then by the time, you publish it. You're really looking at information that's a year or two old. You know, your example, examples a great picture of? I just imagine. Okay. This author was probably just passing through and just saw police there. And which is like, oh, let me just make a quick note about this because I'm getting off the bus year for two minutes, and I'm on my way to another destination. I just have to write a paragraph on this place. You know, I wish it was like that. I actually did my research on this particular thing because it just a nerve me that's much, and this is a little bit of my background is being someone who's done twelve years of college or something I like to do research. I enjoy it. And the this particular example, the thing that drove me mad wasn't that. Because I really thought like you was someone they drove through quickly. They misunderstood you know, their interpreter. Someone has happens in Morocco, someone spun the yarn, and but in fact, I I saw the same paragraph nearly word for word in not only previous editions of the lonely planet. But also previous editions of the rough guide dating back to the nineteen nineties. Okay. Really? So it's plagiarism. I was. Yeah. Stirs in the class, they had an plaster there. They just looked at some old guidebooks. You know when the opportunity came for me to do my own guidebook. I was like, you know, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Right. And so, you know, everything that I write about a, you know, it could be a hotel. It could be a restaurant. It can be a place. It could be a monument. It could be whatever I've been there. And I've experienced it. Luckily, I do speak French, and I do speak Arabic. If all else fails, I have my who's from ten year right beside me up the time. So, you know, if something is I'm not understanding something I could always ask her in on say, hey, so do I understand this correctly is this with this kind of sending you know? And just what you get to the root of kind of a I for me like a truer version of what a travel guide should be particularly from Rocco, which like you were saying with the rise of the travel, blogs and everything. Aide. Trump advisor course, you know, I use trip advisor all the time. You know, these things in some ways that kind of date a guidebook, but on the other hand when traveling a country like Morocco or a lot of African countries. I'd say in particular where you don't always have internet and things can get confusing very quickly. It's nice out have something right there. You know, whether it's like, a PDF, ipad or something or paper copy. You know, it's nice to have some sort of reference said. To kind of give you that that a center, you know that? So sometimes we need when we travel, you know, absolutely. I I mean, how did you end up in Morocco, e because the only thing I know about your story, and which is very little by the way, which makes us really fun for me to have this conversation, and that was really intentional because I did some research, and I looked at your website. But I'm like, I don't want to go to deep on this guy. But it sounds like you have been a lot of different places all over not. And you were living in a small village in Morocco. You said you move there in two thousand nine why did you move to a small village Morocco in two thousand nine almost made? The better question is why did I move from San Francisco in two thousand. Okay. Why did you do that? So so. Myself. I live in San Francisco have been there for a couple of years. You know, like a lot of people probably that tune in to not only this podcast that you run. But also on the location indie podcast like a lot of these other people had I just wasn't very content with my office job. You know, I was, you know, put it into kind of my nine to five didn't see myself in that office culture too much longer. And so I was looking for something else to do. And I'm doing what were you doing there? I was editing. I had a job as additive for a wire service entirely boring job that basically means I was the last line of defense and the dark arts of press releases. Tell long did you work there? Two years added tears there, and it was okay job for an office job. But that's the problem. I was still in office job. And I wanted to do something else. And I had my master's in English by then. And so I was looking at maybe ten English somewhere and originally I was looking around the US didn't even really think about going overseas at all. But the only jobs I can find in the US where out on the ocean islands in upstate New York in Watertown, just awfully eerie some community college there. And I thought man if I gotta be this remote in the US when I'd be really remote the world. And so. My surge to South Korea Thailand, this whole kind of southeast Asia, and Ana unaware kind of a plan for one job in Morocco. And keep in mind, I've never been to any displaces before United Denver minutes out these Asia. I'd never been to Africa in the Morocco job looked really interesting if you know anything about Rocco, it's it's a short flight to Europe, you know, instead to our flight into in France. And I have a lot of friends already in France and size thought. Hey, well, you know, it goes really bad. For you know for a week or two. So. Yeah. So it took a job teaching there in this little village. There's a university that happens to be a Alaw on university. And it happens to run a cut of an American style liberal arts program the link of the classes are mostly in English. And so I took a job teaching literature and composition there. And which meant basically, I had some more time to travel as well. So not only did my day to day. Life was all of a sudden became a lot more interesting than you know, hanging out in the mission at some, you know, burrito giant win. I may but. This sudden, I'm like Livingston village where I don't even know how to order instable right in extreme difference. Right. So I mean when you did you find the gig on Dave's ES L cafe or one of those type. I remember I looked at Dave's. This wasn't on data. I think this actually came up in a random Google search. Honestly, like, I was I just decided to plug in like, something like English teaching jobs. And then I just started listening countries that I was interested to see what Google kind of popped out because a lot of times universities. They don't do a good job advertising positions. So good tip set for maybe some listeners out there is a lot of universities. They you won't find him on Dave's. You won't find them. You know on any of the kind of popular university website forums that are listening university of positions outside of the US. You know, most of your you know, outside of the US universities in colleges. They rely on local networks in put them on their website. And that's about it. So okay. Yeah. So you're looking at specific universities in Morocco or insert whatever country, and so you plugged Morocco into Google. Okay. So what was it about Morocco that made you type out? I mean, there are a lot of countries that you could was there something it was probably down on my list, like probably number twenty seven on my list of random a way you willing to go anywhere. Right. Wasn't the United States? Basically exactly you know that. I that point. I think I said, hey, if I can't find my, you know, the next best job here all find it somewhere else. And at that time, you know, two thousand nine didn't think a lot about writing for money. Like, I'm doing now for travel writing and stuff. I didn't really didn't think that was a possibility. I was still thinking someone someone else had to pay my bills someone else had to pay me to to do some sort of job functions. So bad at a decided said why not Castaneda over the world kind of follow the most interesting one. So you had nothing in South America panned out that was kinda met. I I still haven't been to South America. That was the first place. I started looking I was like right Priscilla. Be fantastic. Columbia sounds great. You know, why not you know, funny out? Yeah. I mean, if you had gone there, maybe you would written the guidebook to Chile or whatever you would add a totally different life. You never know. You know that providence. Okay. So you. San Francisco Brito IP mission thing, and then now open your eyes one day. And you're just holy crap. I live in this village in Morocco. And now, I gotta figure this out. What was that transition like for you? And what were those first days and weeks like a man of the first few weeks into maybe the first few months where really rough I'm not gonna I never sugar coat that when I talked to people about this one of these days apply, you write the story up? But you know, when I left San Francisco, I made a clean cut it. You know, I sold off all my furniture. You know, whatever I can put up on Craigslist. I put up on Craig's list everything. Yeah. Just got rid of everything that make you nervous. Or were you just kind of? I was with that. I was excited, you know, like feeling that freedom buzz. I think also, you know, was just hitting thirty years old. And you know, like, I don't know. I had this whole sense of dropping the baggage in my twenties and like picking up something freshman thirties. You know, just seemed like a nice nice way to make a clean break. And so other than other than some books that I had boxed up in my mom's garage, packed everything. I was going to take with me into two bags at my my snowboard bag because what two paragraphs that were any front in the guidebooks what I could find on competed, which was not much is that there was a small ski station in town that was operational for a couple of months out of the year at night did not think Morocco in skiing went together at all. But I love snowboarding size. Like, I've Acuras no word. That's coming with me. So so pacman snowboards some winter gear just to be prepared. You know for the winter because I didn't know what it could find there. And then another kind of baggage is closing, you know, few capricious books and whatnot. In carry on stuff. And I was gone. You know, just like that. Unfortunately, after you know, we've all been through these flights where once delayed Mr. connection in all the stuff happens. So I had a series of that and get to Morocco. So by the time, I got to Morocco had spent a one night in an airplane in another night in an airport was just, you know, just sleep deprived? And I and says, and I just want to go to bed just give me into my new home. I just want to go to bed. The university was nice enough to send a driver to meet me. And I'm waiting and I'm waiting, and I'm waiting from a bags to show up in show up as all I have. I had it in my carry on. All I had with me is I have my computer. I had a couple of books street. I have one win fair change a closed at already had us on the trip over. So it's so two weeks for the airline. American Airlines, by the way are not American. Sorry Air France air. Air france. I've had the worst luck. They've lost three of my bags one of them indefinitely. My Christmas presents from last year of material son gone indefinitely. So I am doing my best. Not just like this guy's American. Just throwing. Yeah. Luggage track. I told you French people. So. Yeah, that I mean so in France, I'm gonna minor strike against at the moment. 'cause that was that was the first of three times that they had lost miss misplace baggage. But this one. Yeah, this one hurts. It was the just getting to Morocco and like really big trip overseas, and you're on your own, and yeah does nothing stare, you know, so so what do you do? So I I ended up handwashing my my my laundry in my sink every night for the first two weeks in Morocco. You know, before finally, you know, back did arrive, and you know, then the school year starts in in your kind of visit working in most of that works out. Pretty well. You said it was rough the first couple months just what will end up about it. Well, so the hand washing every night and get him washing every night. So I mean, I didn't have anything to wear released. Like, I I I did like all my quote, unquote, professorial sort of. Close at imagined wearing I had my little blazer, you know, at my like slack semi button up shirts. I ninety glance. Yeah. No, no. No, professor. I heard. Yeah. I am professor who heads and like a ratty t shirt. Professor oriel. I think yes. Maybe it does. So this is a this. Yeah. This is so other than that. You're you're paying the picture of the like, the Princeton professor, and this is more of the village. Professor, right. The the. Well, the thing with Morocco that I learned before it went is it is it is a bit of a hierarchical culture where there are kind of these standardized standardized norms a lot a lot of times when people are reading the first time on quote, unquote, traditional where Rocco it'll be like jellabas in caftans stuff like that. And yes that had its place in history and people still do that. But in professionals fears, you know, you're expected to wear a tie or a button up shirt. You know, I mean, you walk into Bank everybody there is going to be a button up shirt and a tie just as they are all over Europe or the US, you know, and so like just going into it. I wanted to fit in you know, makes good first impression which I didn't have an opportunity to do. Unfortunately. But beyond that, you know, there's some of the normal sort of struggles. Like, I ride on the first day of Ramadan. And I'd never lived in a Muslim country before I've never experienced prominent. I don't really know. What's happening, but what basically happens during Ramadan is everything shut during the day, especially in small towns. And so when I go out for grocery shopping in the afternoon, I couldn't really find much. Nothing was really open. And so just like figuring out when I do my shopping to get food to make spaghetti or whatever night, you know, kind of kind of and being a small town. There's not like restaurants can go out to anything like that. So. So this there's this normal sort of adjustment. An interesting side note. Was that during during Ramadan. When you, you know, people probably all listening to this. No ramadan. You're fasting for months between sunrise sunset. So you're not drinking. You're not smoking. You're not eating, you know. None of nothing is supposed to pass your lips, you know, from the first break of the dawn light until the sun sets. And when the sun sets, of course, everyone's really excited, and you know, it's hungry thirsty and all that stuff. But to let everybody know that it's okay to break the fast, they fire a cannon you hear cannon fire? It you front, and I did not expect that. So the first aren't the cannon fire on the what is this? Yeah. Like what's going down here? Right on our panic of you know, like I'm imagining lint is out Jiri invading, the country know what's going on here. Of course, it's nothing like that. You know? So so there is a stuff like this. But these these -periences you go for right? This is the reason you leave San Francisco in the office job to be kind of thrown into a situation where you don't know what's going to happen. In sounds like those things were coming fast and furious for you early on and that I mean, that's that's pretty much. What it was? You know, almost everything was. Bags are lost. You don't have your kind of stuff you're planning on having you know, that little bit of home that you took with you know. Kind of remember at two bags of really nice coffee. I thought I wanted my first couple of weeks flips coffee data got damnedest fide time trying to find these Cup of coffee. But you know, it's yes stuff like that kind of makes it more difficult. And then you add on, you know, at the time. My French was really bad. I didn't know any Arabic. And so there's a lot of kind of confusion a lot of the hand gestures trying to just navigate your your daily life. And of course, the normal stuff is starting a new job in all that stuff. Flip side. I mean, you must have been the adventure side of it. And just sort of the newness. I'm even it sounds like you ended up sticking around there for a while six years. How did that? I mean was it just you just settle into life? They're just became, hey, this is a place. I've I have fallen in love with now. Or is it did you meet your wife there or how you're living in Norway? Right. And you've been there for a little while now. Yes. Yeah. And so when you first got to Norway, you know, everything's kind of fresh exciting new a kind of underlying all that. There's also this other this other kind of. The way of living. You know, there's this whole other thought press thought process of what a day to day lights means what it would what it should be day to day week to week month month, you know, there's different seasons. There's different sorts of appreciations in terms of just culturally, whether that's Texas, food or types of music or family relations, all this stuff. And I think it takes anybody moving from one culture to the other to really learn that and then start to appreciate that. And I think my first year Morocco was really about learning that and my second year when I started to really appreciate that because they do and I hate to generalize about any people anywhere. But, you know, the general vibe of Morocco, whether you're in the city or in the country. Is that there is, you know, there are these very very strong family ties that there are very strong communal bonds there as well. I'm something that you don't grown up in Seattle limited San Francisco and stuff, you know, we don't experience in the same wet. And then there's this whole notion of time, you know, time is elastic. It's not a very punctual. I'll be there five o'clock. I'll see you right on the dot. It's it's very elastic there in you know, I that drives me nuts. I think I think most people come in from the western world in on the. You like when I see Germans for the first time, you know, which really known, of course, unnecessary type. You have Germans this being very punctual in all this. But truth be told the first few times, I I've encountered German tourists there. One of the first things they told me that amaze them was that time could be different. Stuck with the as it. Yes. It can as a matter NB different as in terms of appreciating that as opposed to seeing it as a negative. I guess you can look at it both ways I think it's interesting what you said about. The two year thing kind of the first year to learn go through all the seasons. And you have all these experiences the first time and then the second year to appreciate. I would say generally, I agree. And I find that to be true. And it does take time to like you said the first year, you're kind of experiencing all these things for the first time when there's the new this, and this sort of travel edge to everything right? Well, even if you're living in another country, it's like you're traveling because you're experiencing these things for the first time, and then it comes for the second time. And then I think at least for me you start to pick up some of the where you're picking up more of the cultural subtleties in the country itself. And then adding those in with those experiences that you're having for the second or third time. And then you're starting to formulate this this picture of what it means to be in the Norwegian culture in the Moroccan, culture, or whatever it is. It's a totally different experience spending years in a country as opposed to passing through and getting a sense of it. I mean, if you're travelling there for one or two months, it's still different when you're spending more time, of course. So. You stuck around there for a while? And now, you sounds like you've traveled all over Morocco. I think it's a good time to get into some tips on Morocco. And I kind of thinking which we kind of call the segment, or what could we how can we talk about this? And I kinda thought the thing that kept popping up for me was beyond merit cash. Because a lot of people go to America I've been and it was very nice. My wife took me for a birthday, and it was so cool. And I'd always wanted to go to Morocco. But it was we didn't have much time. It was a short trip. We were there for I think four nights five days and him seeing the atlas mountains aren't too far off. And I'm reading all these things Morocco. I'm just like no we need like four months here. We can't just have these four day. It just happened that we could go somewhere, and we had that amount of time. So we just picked that place, and that's normal. Yeah. Go visit city, come home. But I just got this sense of there's a lot to see inexperienced here. I need. This is a place I need to come back to which is why put it on my list. Talk to us about Morocco. I'm not sure where to start, but I think mirror cash is the is the entry point for a lot of people. But let's say, you know, we have two to four weeks to explore what what are some of the things we're looking at that we could be doing in terms of activities and places to go for the independent traveler, so I'm working on right now. I just got word from publisher that I'll be working on a new guidebook for moon. So the brand called Marrakesh and beyond. I also got very segment. John, Mary, Kashmir, and beyond etc. So yes, so tuna for weeks, if you I mean, a lot of people, especially if they come from the US most people have about a week. And if you're good with your. With overcoming jetlag. You know, you can kind of get over that one day hump. And you're usually pretty good to go see some stuff what I generally tell people when they're start to plan. Their trip is to think about flying not into CASA book, so cousins Lunka is the hub for a lot of international trips. So if anybody out there listening in there, you know, flying through the by flying from southeast Asia are flying from north America South America in doubtedly. Like, if you're gonna look for a ticket to Morocco, it's gonna end up in CASA Blanca, and that is not necessarily the way. I would go about it a CASA Blanca despite the name cachet from the probably movie in all that it's not a very romantic city. It's it's busy. You know? It's Morocco's biggest city. You have to dig deep to find its charm. I think and I think once you've been through Morocco seen some other places than 'cause it's a little easier to find at Trump because the blond guy feel, but I mean for what you're imagining for what most people magin in their heads. It's a hell of a lot easier to fly to Europe a spend a night. Get over your jetlag spend a night Madrid spent a night in Barcelona's Paris US tonight London in fly directly from one of the European capitals into American ten year because you can go immediately into these kind of more interesting cities that have a bit more of that, you know, old world charm that I think draws a lot of us to Morocco. So that's usually the first kind of tip. I tell people is if you can don't plan cuss Manca plan to any other city. You can there's another solid reason for this as well beyond his cause of Lanka because the of block airport is the busiest also usually has the longest custom. Lines. So for example, if I'm flying into Casablanca, I I don't think I've spent less than an hour on the customs line there. It's it's almost nearly always an hour long for me to get through customs there. Tanger- takes me ten minutes. Marrakesh stakes me ten minutes. It's been rare have had to wait more than fifteen minutes in for customs line in any other city. So this is this is kind of like just a start your trip off on the right? So it because I believe that is a, you know, it's kind of a what do you call it like a? When you when you start something off on the right foot? You're really setting the tone for your trip. And for me if you want to set a great tone start off on the right foot, and for me that begins from the moment. Your foot touches the ground another great tip for those. That are in Europe. You can take the ferry from Theresa Spain into tanger-. It's a thirty minute ferry ride as beautiful as all get out inner crossing continents across Gibraltar. You can see the rock of Gibraltar in the distance from the coast of Spain. You can see the coast of Morocco, and they're right there. You know, they're almost kissing cousins Mets it but ended ended it is incredible to see just in the space of seven miles or about fourteen kilometers. How different the world's can be how much they change. And also at the same time kinda how similar they are as well. You know, these just get thrown into high definition, especially that first time he kinda make that that ferry crossing. So for me, that's kind of the best ways to come in. Morocco, you know, either by ferrying tanger- or flying into any airport that isn't cause of Lanka. So I think I think that's a good start for the trip. And then you were saying if you had two or four weeks, what would you do a lot of times people built their travels around certain activities? They like our experiences they wanna have. And I know there are some traditional tourist types experience of experiences that you can have in Morocco. What some of those are what some of those might are maybe are worth it and not worth it, those even even better tip. Sometimes is the things that hey, you've heard a lot about this. But it's and of course, that's all subjective. But. Hit send them one. Hey, you've heard a lot about cousin. Bog don't go there? Right. Okay. Yeah. There you go. Sometimes it's the things that people say not to do that kind of paint a clearer picture of what to do. Sometimes I guess that other thoughts have traveling to Morocco are a, you know, I think about the seasons. I would not go there in the summer. Yeah. Summertime. You know, if you stick to the coast that could be okay in terms of temperature. It's not too hot. But the coasts are flooded by all the tourists from Europe all the tourists from Morocco. You know, everybody kind of vacates the desert stop that really hot core of the country in the day fled to the coast. And so even if you stick to the coast where temperatures will be nice, you know, the hot sunny, warm, he can jump in the ocean. And all that. It's it's almost too crowded to make fun. I think particularly in some places that are typically a little bit more off to be passed a little bit less, less traveled. That's that's true except for probably August, maybe July. So when are the best months to travel then? Spreading and fall by far the best, you know, I if chosen between between the two I'd say probably springs the best time to go. Because then you get you know, turn them in the mountains. You got all these beautiful, flowering plants everywhere. And you start to see the green, you know, really really kinda take root the coast are still great for, you know, taking the whole little swim in the ocean. It'll be chilly, but it's still really nice out. And then in the desert your temperatures during the day are bearable, you know, they're up to forty five fifty degrees celsius there like one hundred ten one hundred twenties, but this more going to be like ninety degrees out or so which makes you know. So you can do a day in the desert Jerry comfortably. What are some of those places to go that might be sort of including some of the popular visit we can take the atlas mountains, for example to have the Alice mountains experience, but maybe, you know, a place that's a little more off the beaten track where you can have that experience. And it's a little more fulfilling for the independent traveler, there's two mountain ranges. There's the middle. Atlas high atlas the hatless mountains are much closer to America. So for those people America's first explored the gymnasts. Nah. And all that great history that honestly, it is worth it to explore America's. You know, there's all kind of quote unquote, typical tourist things at you know, for me. There's a reason why they're typically touristy is 'cause they're awesome. I agree. Like somebody tries to tell me. Oh, don't go to macho peaches touristy, it's like well. What do you mean? You know, this is where it's not good to listen to you know, people. I mean, what's touristy for a reason? Like, you don't go hype the great wall of China because. I cool. So so there's stuff like that. I think is totally worth America shouldn't particular. They've been throwing that party on the gymnast that every night for about a thousand years. So it's it's been a place for millennia sit still place to be. But now when you're going up in the high atlas just like you a lot of people come into Barra cash, and they'll spend three or four days there, and they never leave Marrakesh. So even something as closed in his accessible as the high out is mountains, oftentimes gets overlooked. So even though you might you might think you're doing something. That's kinda you know, quote, unquote on the tourist trail or something. I mean, I've been doing this. I've done four or five trips in the high atlas mountains, and I can count on see I can count two trips why but met other groups terrorists has been hiking Nina up in up in the mountains, and these well established trails, I'm not going off piste into like, you know, no-man's-land like, I'm going on this tablet struggle to see you know, what the next kind of accommodations going to be like or something like that. You know, you'd be surprised at how few people get up there. So you know, getting up to. I am L I L and lid. That's the kind of main hub in high. Atlas for trekking into that to call national park and the national parks for takes flory. Now for those that love outdoors that love mountain hiking that maybe wanna think about a something. Shoveled takoff the highest mountain in Morocco. Definitely worth it. You know? I mean, that's that's something not to be missed. You know, the other place I go in the middle. Atlas mountains, and this is something that's a lot less touristed is a place called a value defend that's going to be a weird as house spell that out for people. So zoey is usually spotlight Z A W. I y a is one way to spell it in English. So is he a w I weigh is how it's suppose to be d- apostrophe. You frown any FRANZ? I have are a in e-, but seventy five is. One of the most picturesque villages. You'll find it in the middle. Atlas? It's a very very small town nestled at the bottom of the cliff and over the top of the cliff is is a waterfall that cascades down. So when you arrive in a right behind this little village, there's low minaret from you know, the MAs. There's all these kind of a. Some of them are stone. Some of our stucco at Dobie building. Some of them are a couple of newer ones was cement that usually have some sort of Dobie on outside. So right behind this. There's this task aiding waterfall, and it looks like something out of the movie avatar. It's just it's just incredible. And that's like a little spot that not not a lot of people make it out to you. Because it is from fez, it's probably about a four hour drive from Feser. So so, you know, you have to kind of be committed to get out. I love those kinds of spots that it's just it's close enough where you don't have to go for three days, but it's far enough where you're not going to run into anybody or a lot of people. Well, what are some of the other things not to be missed because you use that terminology a minute ago and Ekin just list some things off really quick in terms of, you know, a certain food or dishes, we should eat certain other places maybe to go that we've missed certain places to go shopping certain types of places to stay in. If we go just to have those cultural experiences are at all run if I had to Morocco, here's my don't miss list. Okay. Love it. Don't miss Moroccan mint tea. You're gonna be offered it at a lot in. It is delicious. You'll be tired of it better than into your. Trip. But man, you will remember it for years to come. Do. Not miss having mom, you can do this in every major city in most of the villages, HAMAs like Moroccan spa treatment, you will come out of there feeling like you've lost layers skin, and you can breeze through your skin particles in. It is an amazing sensation. And something at the end. You won't forget anytime soon. Do not miss wandering says Medina the feds. Medina is a UNESCO world heritage site in. It's the world's largest pedestrian freezer are sorry car-free zone pedestrian only might as donkeys a few scooters here, and there one hundred and fifty thousand people or so still living that says Medina, and it's utter labyrinth. You will get lost there. And you're supposed to end. It's wonderful. I love it said just said it entire look like what medieval life was like not only Morocco been in a lot of spots around the world as well. So do not. Miss that. A do not miss a night in the desert. I don't care how touristy these packages silent night in the desert under the stars. You know, outside of hers zoo or something like that. It's incredible. Every time I go to in fact, I'm planning another trip right now. And one of the first things I look at doing this can I do a night in the desert gets at something not only do tourist you. But also Moroccans do as well. They know it's considered this kind of almost like a cleansing act by people so night in the desert for me, something you do not wanna miss. I mean couscous have a Friday couscous if you can get in with the family, if you can do any sort of family family dinner, whether that's a couscous her fits attaching. And you can have that in a family atmosphere do that. Well, I was going to actually get into that next is getting tips on digging into the local culture and interacting with locals in befriending locals in making those connections. You can go beyond the. The standard I guess tourist experience. So it's really hard to do this in the cities. I think in just the countryside's anywhere. You are. I don't care if it's a countryside in France or countryside. You know, I don't know in in California. It's a you know, when you get out of the cities in the country is that people tend to be a bit more kind of that salt of the earth type thing bit more friendly towards neighbors towards visitors porch travelers and in an Islam. They actually I find that in the countryside. They take this tenant at Islam a little bit more seriously where you should appropriate a certain amount of respect in talapity to your guest. You know, and I guess as anybody who comes into your town or village? So you find a lot of times at any smaller villages, Morocco, you're treated like a king. You know, that's tentative culture, you know. Israeli to extend the kind of put that in quotes, Royal treatment. But extend like, a very friendly, very familiar kinda treatment to you as if you were one of their family as if you were, you know, their their cousin or their son or their daughters that so to get I think to to kinda scratch the surface of the cold trip that more than two as you were saying to go beyond that kinda average tourist experience. Which I again, I think there's a lot. That's great about that. But if people are looking to kind of connect more with that culture on a on a personal level. I think you're gonna find that outside of the cities in the countryside a lot more, and that can be you know, any number of villages. You know? I I I've taken hikes across the mountain more just kind of set off on a trail have come across. You know, a a group of Hudson. I don't know that word for that. They're just kind of you know, if if they weren't a city collies shacks, maybe or something like that. But you know, you come across these these these places where people are living and maybe a bit of a tenuous existence. Maybe they're really dependent on the agriculture of the region or some of them could be following. She heard some people follow that she return. And so they're they're shepherds that are very much attached to that style of living, and you know, you can hike across these regions in being violated in for some of the most delicious lunches, you'll ever have, you know, these one of these cultures where it's like, it's virtually guaranteed that if you go off in enough places, you're gonna get invited in somewhere because certain places are like that. Yeah. That's my feeling. You know, is that in the my experience it's been the experience of, you know, almost everyone of my friends at gone, you know, adventured out of it is that it's one of these places that, you know, you're you're eventually just gonna get taken in by the family you live in France. Now. Right. Yeah. I live in Paris. Do you miss living in Morocco? Yeah. I do. Yeah. Do quite a bit. Actually. I mean, I it's great. Don't get me wrong. I get to be a writer in Paris in. There's not a better cliche to probably live. Okay. Now, I know why on your Skype name. It says living the cliche cliche is guy. Say so. But there are I mean there are moments when I definitely do this live in Morocco. What do you miss the most about it? That's a good question. After a while. There's this hearted friendliness to it that doesn't quite exist. In Paris in the same way, you know, people are friendlier in Paris than I think most people give them credit for, you know, I find that regions in the French people in general to be incredibly friendly, really really nice. But there's just this kind of hearted spirit. That is Morocco that I found with my neighbor is that I found was that people at the local market in stuff said, you know, you don't you don't get elsewhere. I think and or at least not into many places, and I think I missed that. I missed being able to go outside my front door and experience that because as you know, the further up you go further north of the equator, you go that colder these cultures. Hey, you're treading on thin ice, not pun intended. Tended. It wasn't tended. Yeah. I'm just thinking about that and experiencing that every day in when you say warmhearted, I can't help. But think of this idea of just having these more, I guess deeper human connections in a way when it comes down to it and to have that as part of your daily life. I could imagine for years, and then that's that's gone. 'cause you're in a big city. Now like, you said and will be further north different culture and everything I'm sure that that would be hard to to be away from that. Yeah. You know, I'll one point after living in a little town for a while inside their time to really adjust to be there for the rest of your life. Or it's time to move onto the next thing. So I did hit the moving onto the next thing. But you know, nostalgia real saying, you know, I mean, we kinda think anywhere we moved to any any even moments in our life. You know, kind of have nostalgia for these these other places, maybe we live. People we've known or experiences, we've had an so I think that that's a real thing. But you know, the next thing is I get to go back a lot. I mean, I remember four to six times a year. Minimum. You know, my wife like I said by western Kenya. So we we go down at least twice a year. Just to see the family in tanger-. I'm usually down another four or five times just to do a bit of work. So I'm traveling somewhere. How's how's it working out? Now, you have a son and these two and a half. I think did you is it hard to be traveling now doing that and being away from him. Hot tetralogy parents out there travel, Morocco with your kids man how? That is such a kid friendly. I mean, it's ridiculously kid friendly country of I find this, you know, some of the other places I've been to but even having lived in Morocco. Even speaking the language, even being really married into the culture wasn't until I had a kid, and we started going around with the with our son that all of a sudden this whole other window of the culture opens up. He's an immediate icebreaker. You know, you go into the soups that into that, you know, six or the local market Saturday, you go into these local markets people to shower the babies in kids with gifts, you know, everybody wants to touch the kids kissed the kids, you know? So that just ends up. You know, you may make all these other friendships along the way his parents apparent you know. It's it's another wonderful experience. So I bring them with me as much as possible. And we're looking at doing one trip where it'll be the first trip where it's just him. And I so the idea is spring break, you know, it's going to be a triplet just ten says that ring break for the boys. Bring break boys Morocco. Crazy road trip, man. It'd be wild that I think it says a lot about a culture that treats children in general, as you know, so loving and accepting in that way. I think that's it's not that way everywhere. Unfortunately, and you go into restaurants on you know, the bend over backwards. You know, like there is no question at, you know, the chef coming up with something off the top for a kid right away because it can hungry does embarrassment over thirty diapers and stuff like that. You know, you're not getting dirty looks from other diners because you might be erupting their meal with your yet. There's none of that. You know, there's another that, you know, I mean rock is kind of allowed culture anyway. But I mean, the kids just add to it, and the hardest part for us actually is that they you know, we're on a pretty strict kind of sleeping schedule. You know? Our sun goes to bed, you know, he's in bed by eight thirty night. A lot of times Morocco. You know, you'll find kids his age at three years old, you know, playing out on the streets at midnight one warning because they just have a different kind of life rhythm. Right. Well, how do you feel about raising your kid in Paris now in it sounds like he's going to be a third culture kid at least for for a while or for the foreseeable future and being American. I have my personal thoughts in this. But I'm curious about how you feel about his childhood in any experience. You're giving him in the way, you guys are are living in the place. You're living in being away from your home country. Sounds like your wife's away from her home country to go. Yeah. Deep thoughts. No. I mean, it's you know, like, yeah. So we are definitely raising a third culture kid. I mean, my wife her first language is Arabic language, obviously English and our son's first language is French. So, you know, he speaks when he's playing with toys, you know, he's speaking in French she's telling stories himself in French in. That's how he gets five, you know, I speak English with them. She speaks Arabic was him. So even early on, you know, he's he's got a good language based on all ages. The the three languages that we use house quite a bit. And so, you know, the first thing I'll say Tyler parents having seen experience this now is, you know, if you if you're strict with the language use in you, pick one language, usually it should be your mother tongue any stick with kids can pick it up, you know, kids can balance multiple languages. Unlike me, I struggle. You know, I'm almost forty years old now I struggled greatly at, you know, working on my second third fourth languages the. I'm impressed that you speak all these languages. It's great because I learned Norwegian. And finally, and I would even say, it's I learned it. But it's not like, I'm a master of it, you know, but Arabic in French. And that's too. I mean, I had enough problems just getting one down still getting it down. And I think for us especially coming from the states where we aren't we don't typically experience language early on our pretty monolingual culture. Still is it's more difficult for us to pick up that second or third language, but kids can do it. You know, they're sponges. You know, they'll they'll just learn stuff. So we're watching our son. He's a little or two and a half now. And he will tell you stories in French are beginning Bush, and you can ask for style till talk to grandparents which is really important for us to be able to talk to his extended family as well. So he's at that point now where he can get on Skype like we are now, and he could say Hello tell people about, you know, his favor red motorcycle. What he did at the park. You all that stuff? What do you got anything back at home personally? And also, I guess that could relate to your son. To like, he's not going to have the these certain American traditions. So your last podcast got on. Was you guys? We're talking to you and Travis we're talking about a road trip right doing the cross merica road trip, which I've always dreamed of doing while. I think that Travis was saying he got a. Is what a Chevy camper from nineteen eighty eight eighty nine something like that. From Montana, drove into Philadelphia or whatever. And I mean, I want to do this. You know, there's things I wanna do really bad. So I got away a couple years still he's older. But I wanna do the great American road trip because I've never got to do that. So that I like to do that things. I've missed I think that the biggest thing that I miss and that's from growing up in Seattle. We're blessed up there. You know in Seattle you grow up right on Puget Sound. But the mountains are in our way, you know, you can be like mount rainier national park within a couple of hours. You know, you can be out on rainforests on the Olympic peninsula. So there's this crate it is fantastic nature everywhere. And you know, just being kind of landlocked in Paris a little bit. That's one thing. I find myself missing is. I wish we could go out and just do that weakening camping trip. You know, where we see these kind of you know, these giant trees, you know, that you just don't have in Europe. No, we don't get. They don't have those you know, that the Doug. Furs in the are, whatever. So. Yes. I I miss Emma's data. I think a little bit beyond, you know, you know, to friends and some. Can stay in touch with a lot better. You know, what these magical things like Skype in all that it has been easier to keep in, touch, but United still kind of miss them. You kind of wish you can call it. The sister in United to hang out for the weekend or something like that. Yeah. That's definitely hard with the family and friends for sure and certain cultural things as well. I've experienced just I think like enough dreams of leaving your home country, and then you're out and then after when you're out for a while, then you start missing those things, and that's kind of human nature, I suppose, but. How you been living in Norway? Well, officially it's been almost three years, but I was going back and forth before officially moved here. So probably somewhere close to three and a half four years time spent here, you know, I asked him I'm closing in on about a decade of living overseas now at at find your you know, what happens is the ties you have back home wherever that home is. I think but does ties you have back home. Now, they get of more and more tenuous. They're they're they become lighter and lighter. So all of a sudden, you know, it's not a cut, you know, it's not cutting the cord or anything like that. But it's more like these courts dissipate after a while to where at one point, you know, you wake up nearly lot. It's you know, those for thanksgiving dinner, isn't that big of a deal. You know, I I can't remember the last time I did thanksgiving. I can't I can't really say at miss it that much or anything like that. Which is a strange thing to say, but it's been replaced with other things, you know. That that's part of the attestation. I think living in another culture is knows. Sometimes you're, you know, those things maybe that you you think you're gonna miss, you know, they they find a replacement, you know, whether that's had saver food or a favorite hang out or. Yeah. Like, Bruce Willis, I think traditions, die hard and traditions Thai crucial tradition. I miss those things. And but there is something interesting. That happens. I think psychologically, when you I think the word you used was great dissipate because it's not like, you're cutting it or purposely. It's just kind of this painting. I'll say it. But I haven't had a decade yet. So I can't speak to that. But I think there's there's something that takes time also to be on your living in other culture. I think to to embrace those traditions, and you can be a part of a tradition. Like you're saying those first year or two you can participate in the tradition. But at least for me it felt like all right? Well. Participation, but it's sort of like, I'm still an outsider, you know. Whereas now, if I go home with my wife to like her family's for Christmas and I'm doing their Christmas traditions. Now, it feels like oh, this is part of my family tradition. Now, it's not just me as in American be sitting in on this experience. It piercing I'm a part of this now. And I think that's a big difference for me at least. So I think that the kids more kind of magnified many advocate in the mix as well. Because all of a sudden, I think you're seeing these traditions forming part of you know, your child's kind of exhibit their traditions. Yeah. It's going to be their traditions, and your you're all of a sudden more a part of it. Then, you know, I think that that's that kind of wraps up into this idea of, you know, in a way kind of reestablishing our realities or something like that. Yeah. I mean, there's there's probably something metaphysical that I don't know. Yeah. And then there's a part of me, you know, with with my kids. I want them to have those American experiences as well. Even though they might not even be the same anymore. You just kind of have the the child experiences that you had. And then like, hey, from my son I wanted to know what a baseball glove, smells like and throw it in the back of a truck and hop in there and ride with his friends down to the ice cream joint. But the reality is probably like I would probably get pulled over in arrested for driving with kids in the back of a truck without seatbelts or something. It's just not that way. Absolutely. But reality is probably your kid. It'd be on his phone taking it. Yeah. Right. Well, I mean, these are the things that kind of come up when you're a paradise. This is something that because we're trying to as we're limited in France trying to get also not only the American traditions. But also, as you know, I'm Rockin traditions kinda in our in our daily lives, really. But just kind of in our in our in our I guess our day to day. And so it is tricky kind of navigating that sometimes, you know. And it is hard to figure out like where he's going to get that bit of America where he's going to get that. But a Moroccan Nata rocking kind of. That bit of, you know, the kind of French culture as well that are all going to kind of wrap up into you know, what he grows up experiencing out, which is why two nights ago, my wife, and I viewed mister Rogers neighborhood was an episode from nineteen Eighty-one because she had never seen mister Rogers before. 'cause they don't have that intangible Morocco strangely F, and I grew up with Mr. Rogers, and I was like, you know, I kind of want my son to grow up with mister Rogers to Mr. Rogers is a good guy. It's actually, you know, you learn so much about the world at a quick side note this episode from nineteen eighty one from nineteen eighty one they were talking about electric cars. I'm this drawn. Okay. What's taking people? As so longer. That thing. But these are the things like early on where you're gonna kinda get your child. You know, what would you miss? What do you want to include at the same time? What are the kind of crappy parts about your childhood that you wanted to take out of there, you know, or the parts about the culture that you as he became an adult. You realize probably for the best. You know, we could talk about the over commercialization of Christmas and stuff like that. Which is happening right here in France as well. Here's well. But you know, you're not missing out on that. Yeah. I'm missing out on that. Right. They do a good job of brainwashing. Them early on. He knows all about up and allow. So, but you know, what can you do to curb that a little bit? And then. I'm just in terms of you know, I'm sure Norway has their own kind of winter traditions. You know, here they have there's, but how do you explain to a kid early on like now, this is what we do here. This is what we're gonna do their, you know, right? It gets tricky. And yeah, I think it's one thing is travel being overseas for so long as taught me, it's just this. It's reinforced this idea of impermanent that really the things you think, oh, well, this is going to be really forever. You everything goes away at some point where everything dissipates at some point. And then we die now that sound really depressing. But I mean, like these things that we tach identities to in these cultural things because I thinking about these things a lot lately, they're really just happenstance from where you were born in where you grew up. And then if you take yourself and put yourself somewhere else, it would have been a different thing. But at the same time that doesn't mean that they don't mean anything right value this traditions, which is why I miss them. And now I'm kind of trying to look at it with an abundance mentality of. Okay. Well, now, my kids and myself, I get to have all these different new traditions, which are your Europe General has more of a traditional kind of background. I'm not saying that right? But it's more traditions are stronger. I think they run deeper in last longer. I think consistent more consistently, and I guess America being Newark country. But but now I can also cherry pick like you said the ones that will be really enjoyable there s just yeah. This is a whole discussion. We're going off on this tangent. I'm going to have to let you go. Now, though, the last guy was was gonna ask you is your. Writer in Paris. Now. I mean, you started. Just taking a job somewhere. And now you've been living overseas for a decade, and you have a family, and now you're living as a writer in Paris who could have predicted these things, and it all starts with one overseas experience. Which is I think exciting for anybody's you never know where your life's going to take you when you fall, you're you're got to go travel, your passion, or whatever you wanna call it for the writing. How did that sort of evolve for you? I mean, because did you just decide to be a writer one day, or is it just kind of hand need to make an income. This is what I know you have a master's in English. So I assume you were into writing beforehand, did you just decide Hammond start working for myself in some way? And I guess the overall question is just what is your advice around people who wanna pursue who wanna make a career change like that and pursue something that they feel strongly about. But they're unsure about how they would eventually make a living on it. I guess to go. Backout writing something that I wanted to do for a long time. And since I was a kid. I just I grew up in a in a place where I didn't realize it was possible to actually make a living doing that. And I don't think I started realizing that honestly until sometime in my twenties. I think before that I thought, you know, there's Stephen King, and there's J K Rowling. And then there's everybody else just other people that can make a living writing. And then the rest of us are we have to watch tissues and then right on the sides. Yeah. Exactly. We're all going to be starting artists. Washing dishes dependent some I don't know basement apartment somewhere. Honestly, it took me probably sometime in my twenties. Why realized that there were people out there making, you know, not millions of dollars or anything like that. But making a comfortable living writing, you know, be doing different sorts of reporting different sorts of the net than blogging was starting to be thing. And so that's when I started seriously thinking about it. I I was trying to I do a lot of short stories and stuff like that. Utter utter failure every one of them. I cannot radish short story if you live. Lots of rejection lots of you know, you're not good enough. This writing sucks, you know. They never say that. But that's what you read between the lines your bad person. Better dig early personally. Now, you're you're. Blow up your computer? Never send us anything. Ever again, I decided to try to do my MFA. And they're so happened that the university I was teaching at had a relationship with Goddard college, which is where I did my MFA and the relationship was a free tuition waiver. And if I can go to school for free, I will go to school for free. So I had a tuition waiver to do an MFA program at that was a short short term residency, which meant I was back in the US twice a year for about eight days doing coursework can workshops in stuff. Like this match our one on one with a writer over more over the rest of my coursework. So I'd read, you know, fifteen books in semester. I'd right. I don't know a couple hundred pages of fiction, you know, all this stuff and all that was to just hone my craft and all that was to just say, hey, if I'm going to be a writer do the writing saying, I need to really figure out what all that, man. So I was lucky enough to. To have access to that program. And then after that shortly after that, I got the book deal with the moon, and I had another deal with a travel company Morocco where I was hired to do a little bit a writing for them to do like little mini city guides and stuff like that. And I never I really never thought I'd end up making any sort of money travel writing. But I think the fact that I concentrated a lot on my writing without thinking about the travel partners thinking focusing on the writing part that helped to travel writing. So all of a sudden when I when I talked to people when I wrote people just said that. The craft of writing the function of what, you know, getting from Asia's in an article was all of a sudden a lot easier to the end, I could pitch that a lot easier in all of a sudden, you know, people are I wouldn't say lining up. They still aren't lining up to take on my work. But you know, it's a lot easier to kind of get to work out there. So, you know, like for me, it was very much kind of followed this process. I'm not saying everybody needs to go back into MFA or anything like that. Honestly, if it wasn't free. I'd probably wouldn't have done it a, but I think you need to spend time thinking about that craft you thinking about that that that doctor writing itself and working netted your daily routine. I'm so for anybody who wants to be a travel writer. That's what I was. That's what I tell him. This worry about the writing part before he attached the travel part to it and decide about stuff locally right about backyard right about the restaurant down the street. You know, do do ten restaurant reviews. See if any of those places than your local newspaper or something like that. You know, what I mean starts fall as? Far as I mean, your other question about people kind of even if it's not a writing thing. But you know, you have this drain. You wanna follow or you have this? Maybe maybe not a dream. But maybe just a concept of who you wanna be or what you wanna be doing five or ten years from now, you know, I think taking that first step is oftentimes the hardest one because it is so full of uncertainty, and I have yet to meet someone who regrets taking that step. I think most people kind of looking back even though maybe they don't end up where they thought they'd be recognized that first step to to get there. And you know, they appreciated that journey a little bit more in because of that because they weren't tied down to that thing. They didn't love they ended up finding that next thing that they really do love and then did it really do cherish. So I, you know, I think I think the that's the hard part, though, really is taken that per step. Thanks for that. I think like you said opening up. Also, just to the idea of hey, there are people making a living doing this. Let's go up and minded about this. Because if you look in any industry for anything there are people making a living at it. So it's easy to say wolves to competitive I can't get in. But you have to start somewhere and for you that sounds like working on your craft and just being open to the fact that hey, I can get into this. And I can't make a living doing this and being open to that. And then working on it going after it. And I think that's the the going after two is you know, I mean, even how I ended up. My my my steps ticket to San Francisco. I'm not gonna go into all that. But even that it required me leaving a homemade always known. You know, I'd always lived in Seattle. I'd taken some trips in stuff, but I'd never not called Seattle home. And you know, my road to get to San Francisco took me through a couple of different places and. You know, even even then I think with each move. I realized how much people become tethered to a place and the more you become tethered to a place. You're, you know, whether that's through career family boyfriend girlfriend, kids, whatever it is that the more you tendered to place, the more you limit yourself in terms of what else you might be able to do because you're not able to pursue that job halfway across the world. Or you're not able at you're not able to go live in Portugal where the cost of living super cheap, and you need to make money as a freelance photographer live a really really nice life because you're maybe stuck in that basement apartment in New York that costs ten times place in Portugal. It's gonna cost, you know. I mean that was another big lesson for me. I think too is in on that goes into your guys the location at Indy type lifestyle. It's just realizing what is what the world has to offer in how you can leverage all these different places in terms. What you wanna do? Yes. Absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing all of that. And your story and all the advice, Morocco and everything that you have today Lucas, it was really fun chatting with you and your website once again is Lucas m Amazon Mary Peters dot com. I should say Amazon your middle name. But I don't know what it is. So. Lucas M as in Matthew Peters, Lucas Peter's dot com. Sorry lucas. That's funny. Zoom. How we could talk about a limited Paris or I just did a trip Tyson. That was fantastic ASO that would fun, man. Hey, maybe we'll bring everybody down. I see somewhere in the corner. I can crash there in your apartment or something I'm inviting. I mean, we we got we got a foldout couch over there yet myself over right now down Paris for quick quick trip now but have asleep. Overman be great. That's awesome, man. No. I appreciate your time. And it was really cool to hear just about your journey and where it's taken you. And you're happy decade anniversary overseas, I guess and look forward to keep in touch just hearing what you're up to over the next decade woman. I look forward to hearing all the other podcasts that aren't mine. Myself. It was great, man. Thanks so much for your time. Ed, thanks for having me on zero to travel. Take care. Bye. Got my conversation with Lucas hope you enjoyed listening. Thank you Lucas for stopping by the show, and thanks for giving me even more reasons to go explore in Morocco. That was fun. I love talking destinations. Always a pleasure. If you have a destination that you're an expert on and you think, hey, I could share some cool stuff with this year to travel caravan this global community of travel junkies like me, you can have me up on Email, and we'll see if it's something we can get on the podcast that'll help people. Feel free to let me know who you are your experience with a destination, and what you might be able to share that can help out this community. I'm always open to doing more destination themed episodes as people seem to like those. I don't do them very often. If you want more destination stuff, just let me know hit me up and just say, hey, more destination stuff, please. Because I'm happy to bring that to you. This is your show, my friend. You know, it I say it all the time. This is a community powered show. So you got to let me know what it is that you want. So I can deliver it to me. I can bring the goods for you, my friend before I let you go me with a Moroccan proverb. I want to thank tour. Two backpacks for supporting today show zero to trauma dot com slash Tortuga. What you're gonna find is a page with all of my favorite gear. The backpacks that I use and some other mazing stuff that they have you get ten percent off anything you order there with the promo code travel. If you just enter the promo code travel when you check out he'll get. Ten percent off anything and you'll also be supporting this show. Holidays are coming up. If you want a gift for yourself or others, go to this link zero to travel dot com slash Tortuga, promo code travel. Ten percent off check it out. Thanks again. Now, this Moroccan proverb. Even the loftiest the mountains gins on the ground. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next time. Here's. This podcast. Zealand to travel ideas and advice to make your travel dreams.

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Democracy Now! 2018-11-23 Friday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:04 min | 2 years ago

Democracy Now! 2018-11-23 Friday

"Today at democracy now exclusive where an occupied Western Sahara in Lyon. The capital of what many call Africa's last colony Morocco occupied Western Sahara, more than forty years ago and nineteen seventy five four days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony. Some women. We're not backing off until we get our final victory and liberate. Our homeland beatings will not deter us from continuing the fight than even if we died. It would be a sacrifice. So that our sons and future generations can live in freedom that we've been denied of the match nuts in this special report democracy now breaks the media blockade and goes to occupied Western Sahara in the north west corner of Africa to documents, the Sahara decades, long struggle against Morocco's, violent occupation. I have adult as souvenirs old. So. That my father was keeping up and tortured. Then. But I take. That one day. I wouldn't be our feast. So. For the first time in years in December. The United Nations will sponsor talks between Morocco and supporters of Sahara independence, all that. And more coming up. This is democracy. Now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I'm Amy Goodman today. Democracy now exclusive four days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony. Western Saharan, were peaceful. Protesters led by women are beaten in the streets. Thousands have been tortured in prison killed and disappeared while resisting the Moroccan occupation them go saying bloody job right at my eye with his baton. I was yelling at him. Hey, you Moroccan. You pulled up my I we're natural resources are plunder from phosphates to fish. I say that are damn nation comes from the natural resources. We have here if it wasn't for these natural resources Morocco would never have invaded Western Sahara, buckles of suffer where a massive world divides people, the Sahara, we the native population denied a vote for self determination civic, Michelle if we don't speak out, especially us as victims who have suffered all of this. If we don't speak out and defend our cause this problem will remain. Western Sahara, the center of four decades long struggle for independence from Morocco. It's neighbor to the north Morocco has occupied territory since nineteen seventy five in defiance of the United Nations and the international community. The story of Western Sahara, is one of colonialism plunder and resistance. It's also a story rarely told the international media, and it's here in Western Sahara, where the scholar known Chomsky says the Arab spring I began in late two thousand ten before the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt. We're all courses came in destroy the ten cities lot of wound on and then it spread but the struggle in Western Sahara, dates back much longer for nearly a century. Western Sahara, was colonized by Spain. But the Spanish occupation ended in nineteen seventy five setting off a regional fight on October thirty first nineteen seventy-five both Morocco from the north and more attainable from the south invaded, Western Sahara, as Spain withdrew days after Moroccan troops, invaded King Hassan. The second ordered hundreds of thousands of Moroccan citizens to enter Western Sahara, and what became known as the green March Mauritania would withdraw less than four years later, but Morocco has remained to this day. Just days after the Moroccan invasion secretary of state Henry Kissinger privately toll. President Gerald Ford. He hoped for a quote rigged UN vote at the Security Council to confirm Morocco's claim over Western Sahara, about half of the Saharawi population fled, the invasion to neighboring algae area where they settled in refugee camps in the middle of the desert, the Moroccan, invasion, set off a sixteen year long war with the Sahara liberation movement known as the Pola sorrow front Morocco's army with the help of US military aid. Drove the police REO to Western Sahara's eastern desert Morocco, then created the world's longest minefield and built the second longest wall honor with the help of US weapons companies Northrop and Westinghouse the nearly seventeen hundred mile wall, divides Sahara's who remain under occupation. From those who fled into exile. The Moroccan government began decades of torture disappearances killings and repression. Against pro independence, Harare's living in the occupying territory in nineteen ninety one the UN sponsor to cease fire and promise a heroic referendum on self-determination organized by its peacekeeping mission known as manure so since then Morocco has blocked attempts to organize the vote and the UN Security Council has refused to implement its own referendum plan or allow manure. So to monitor the human rights situation in the territory today. No country recognizes Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara, one of the most inaccessible places in the world. And the international media has largely ignored the patient in part because Morocco has routinely blocked journalists from entering Western Sahara. But in late two thousand sixteen democracy now, successfully broke the news blockade, we were in Marrakech Morocco for the United Nations climate change conference with u n credentials and US passports. We decided to take a chance and attempt to do what? No foreign television crew has done in years report. From Africa's last colony. Goodness's democracy now, we've just landed in the capital of Western Saharan. Africa's last colony hoping to the port of occupied by for more than four years at the airports. Now, we'll see what. I'm speaking quietly on the plane because journalists even western journalists are rarely allowed into Western Sahara. We don't know if this is the moment will be turned back as so many others have been maybe it's the UN press badges around our necks. Maybe it's our US passports. Or maybe it's just that are arrival was so unexpected. But after a check of our documents and a few questions, we're wave through customs. Outside the airport. We climb into a car driven by Jamal our translator and guy. Nice to meet so who are the plain clothes officers at the airport. Those is to with you officers. Some of them belonged to different department Jamal says we've been observed by local police, the Moroccan secret service and intelligence agents felucca lightning. The airport is so growth villa nearby. This walk. We arrive at the hotel saw one knowing that the receptionist is obliged to inform the police of our presence. We check in quickly and immediately prepared to interview Sahara activists in one of our rooms. We don't know how many hours or minutes will have to record before the thirties arrive soon, a small contingent of Sahara's enters or first interview is with journalists Muhammed Myra he speaks in hushed tones about the torture and murder his family faced at the hands of the Moroccan afforest. He's my father was among. Four brothers were kidnapped Cleveland moral convicted the western south so was voiced in February twenty seventh TNC two six. That was two months. Was kidnapped and then they send him to succeed shelves. Well, known by the hall was added insult of Morocco. His spend one year and six months and was killed in to what kind of risk. Do you? Take speaking tool western journalists like me, I have. Adore thought as souvenirs old so old Halloween when she asked me to. About my father. So tell her that my father was getting up and tortured Dixit, but I tried to catch that one day. I wouldn't be our feast. Fate. So I'm always waiting. Why do you take that risk? Because I think these things. Detail freedom. The work of Muhammad Myra citizen journalist group, it keeps media is documented in the film, three stolen cameras. It shows the gruesome fate, the Sahara cameramen who was pushed off a rooftop by police after he was spotted filming a bloody crackdown on a peaceful protests. Nick in the full team bazillion, then he said the Kobe policemen had to me on the roof though. A huddle Aslan the huddle at ten what they said on the appeared and pushed me over the edge. As I fell down on the street. I broke my leg. Hurry. Other policemen drug me on the ground a bit further down the street a burning. The he pulled me over it. It was no accident licking the home, kiddo. Yes. Own. They wanted to the monster the power unsure what happens to those who try to break. The me locate how do. Sorry. Facing this kind of violence against those who document Morocco's crackdown on dissent. It's remarkable that these always were willing to speak with us. We also meet journalists high out Qatari Ken media operate here in Western Sahara. Can you have your own media? The mount of probably the colts who are very much harassed. The most recent episode was when my sister does holiday had her camera confiscated, and then they arrested her and she was brutally treated by the thirties over twenty four hours in the police station. Let's. Oh shouldn't said in the little at the. The. In kind of a part from when she was trying to videotape. A peaceful demonstration at the beach of food was the huddle via the from. It's now past midnight, not long after we finish. Our interviews. We get a phone call the hotel receptionist tells us the police are in the hotel lobby demanding to see us. We make our way downstairs to men in plain clothes. Tell us to sit down and worn us against reporting in Western Sahara, we go back upstairs. And soon after we learn pro-moroccan government website called Sahara, zoom had published. Details about our trip including information about the interviews. We had done in our hotel room that night. The message was clear, we're watching you. This is a democracy now special four days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony. That's her always senior Meriem has son from her album lion on fire. This is a democracy now special four days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony I'm Amy Goodman. It's day. Two of our trip to lie Lyon, the capital of Western Sahara, despite warnings against reporting from here, we set off for the offices of human rights group. We carry all our possessions with us, assuming or hotel rooms could be searched or we could be deported at a moment's notice. Everywhere we go, we're followed. We just left our hotel and a man with a motorcycle just outside as we came out. He started texting. And now he's a little bit behind us keeping a careful distance. We've got security on our tail we've made a right and left and a right. We've made a u-turn and man on a motorcycle is right behind. Everywhere we drive or the posters billboards. So the king that's the Moroccan king. King Muhammed this. We've arrived at the only Moroccan accepted nonprofit here and laying there's clearly security setting right next to the door and motorcyclists the so-called security is right behind this. The human rights organization has a long name ASPCA h stands for the Sahara association of victims of grave human rights violations. Committed by the Moroccan state, the walls of its office are lined with posters, and photographs showing the names and faces of the imprisoned the disappeared. The now dead. Melodia jimmy. My name is L Kalia Jimmy. I'm a former victim of forced disappearance. I'm the vice president of this association here. That's where we are. Right now. It's our association that traces the files of suffer disappearance victims. Was it could today November twentieth? Marks the anniversary of my forced disappearance, which took place in nineteen eighty-seven both money elbow. Illovo Jimmy describe what happened to you. You'll probably which is what happened to me happened to all the victims to slow was. So specifically the pictures that I saw from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. They made me feel that I lived the same thing that I underwent the same conditions but in darkness at that time. There was nobody to take pictures of us. There is nobody to talk about us value Jimmy shows us her arm left scored after her captors unleashed a dog on her. I still bear the marks of the dog bites right here who did this to you deliberately be yo attitude. It was the Moroccan state, and the Moroccan police the secret police the same thing they did to me they did to my grandmother before in nineteen Eighty-four when she was kidnapped and so far we don't know anything about what happened to her. I was stripped naked completely up. She the worst part of the torture as a Muslim and an Arab is that I was stripped naked. Shelly I lost all my hair because of the chemicals they used on my head, which they left on me for two months and twenty seven days supposed to be doing a food Ghalia Jimmy sinks to the floor is she continues to describe her torture in Moroccan police custody you'd believe one of the torturers would put water onto my face, which was covered with a rag until I started us fixating. And then he would slap my face until I would breathe again spit us who are you saying they waterboarded you put. Yes, they poured water on my face until I s fixated, and then one of them who is at my feet would beat me with baton. Kief if you to fullish we've done in the same area, they had a small hole filled with water where they put me up to and then they would bring an electric generator. And they would electrocute me using that technique in my fingers and in my ears. Do they threaten me with rape to kill me with a pistol to the head and to brainwash me, you were tortured thirty years ago? Do you feel you are taking a risk when you speak out Kalinic ciphered? Could I am not afraid I took a vow that we have to talk about this issue. Could one sip Tissa? Michele Lynn, what enough Lula. And if we don't speak out, especially us as victims who have suffered all of this to we've yet it had image. If we don't speak out and defend our cause. This problem will remain the Hainault Kalymnos. Definite hasn't moved. We have wind into Mukasa Huffington learning. A little our interview is interrupted when our guy Jamaa receives an urgent phone call. We've been summoned to appear before the most powerful man in Lyon. We get back into our car and head for his residence. Once again, we're followed by a man on a motorcycle. Are we about to be deported? Time after time. Journalists are turned back as they try to enter Western Sahara, like twelve Spanish reporters deported from Lyons airport after their arrival in two thousand ten including the renown radio reporter unjust Barcelo. What about? You're gonna focus time. They turn us away. You should go and tell the story on air go insane today. We'll have tried it again. And today the Moroccans have such away again, and the Spanish journalist Bev. Not yet inspected all my gear cameras photographs and they made me a race photos that according to them were incriminating gaming though. Yes. And human rights observers are deported as well. Like European parliamentarian Willie Meyer Spanish lawmaker savvy air on a Norwegian delegation held on a bus and expelled in two thousand sixteen and many others all of them tried and failed to do what we had somehow managed to make it into Western Sahara to report on the occupant. To sit there the governor of Lyon, his name is Maha shop. His the Wadi actually recalling Wally much position to the government. His appointed by the king. The Wally is a Sahara and former member of the Pola sorrow front. He now works for the Moroccan monarchy. Overseeing security apparatus that seeks to crush, the Sahara independence movement. We arrive at his fortified compound and are escorted inside by armed guards. Afraid we're about to be expelled from the territory was. Let's go from inside the wall. He's residents were seated serve tea dates and nuts. As Wally toes us. No uncertain. Terms were not allowed to practice journalism in Western Sahara, if you have vision, I would be more. To provide this. Sickens position if I'm retired can even come to station in US and to do with into that. We'd be. But as as you have no authority despite the wellish warnings. I continue to question him. I quote from a Human Rights Watch report, titled keeping it secret about Morocco's efforts to block access to manure. So that's the UN mission for a referendum on the status of Western Sahara, nurses, staff. Members including military observers are subjected to constant surveillance by Morocco this and internal pressure from the nurse. Oh, made them reluctant even frightened to speak to our organization, which is Human Rights Watch except on the explicit condition of anonymity. Moroccan security forces. This is human rights Hugh below which is that the bible. No. But I'm are you are you. You know, I'm asking are you disagreeing with this? I disagree completely. They they say we'll confirm them. The. What what the hub suitable the other party Moroccan security forces tried to prevent Human Rights Watch from entering the UN headquarters stating that entry which forbidden to non manure so staff unless it had been cleared with local Moroccan authorities. First Moroccan, authorities harassment of Human Rights Watch as well as their strict surveillance of its activities in the organization's ability to conduct a thorough investigation of human rights. The visit just anything just to make things excite. Let me ask you another question, which is of concern to many people in the human rights community, which is the issue of the protests here being crackdown on and people being beaten or rested. If you keep about peaceful station. The Shiites people. And to give the Opie needs people got injured. So the people got injured people you we see but the use of. So you're saying people are not being hurt and the dentistry. Was hooked those decisions. Stations. It's completely. As I continued to press him on human rights. The Wally loses his temporary bookable books. About human rights human, even in the United States. Don't then you have the more one than million people living just in underground in New York and the eating rates and the. Less and when they are sick. They are eaten by the nuts. That Democrats who now you have to get on it in one everywhere. That's a very important point. That's I just wanted to see you because with that. We're just Smith's d- and warned against continuing to report from Western Sahara. During our discussion. The Walli repeatedly mentioned the close US Moroccan relationship which dates back to seventeen seventy seven. When Morocco became the first nation to recognize the United States, while the US has never recognized Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara. Washington has played a pivotal role insuring up Morocco's occupation. In addition to secretary of state Henry Kissinger, hoping for a rig vote at the United Nations Security council regarding Western Sahara, president Jimmy Carter State Department in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine gave two hundred million dollars to the US company Northrop page communications to build an intrusion detection system for the nearly seventeen hundred mile wall Morocco built in Western Sahara, which is lined with an estimated seven million landmines a year later Carter provided Morocco with two hundred thirty mil. Dollars in military aid. It's been a bipartisan affair ever since. King has on the second with President Reagan in nineteen eighty-two moral people, and I'm gonna can people will be ready always to mix their blood for the dignity of men majesty briefed me on the latest developments in his efforts to reach a peaceful settlement of the conflict in the Western Sahara, and I expressed my admirations for support after the Cold War ended Morocco became a key ally. In the so-called war on terror in two thousand four President George W Bush designated Morocco to be a major non-nato ally of the United States opening the door for more military deals. And the money has flowed. Both ways the state-owned Moroccan phosphate company OCP, which operates in Western Sahara, donated as much as twelve million dollars to the Clinton foundation prior to the two thousand sixteen election. And the Wally proudly pulled up a photo on his cell phone from January of nineteen Ninety-two showing Donald Trump is soon to be wife, Marla, Maples and Moroccan King Hassan the second at Trump's prime property the plaza hotel in New York. Jump forward. A quarter of a century to now. President Trump's disgraced Environmental Protection Agency administrator Scott Pruitt prior to his resignation. Pruitt took a controversial one hundred thousand dollar trip to Morocco in December of two thousand seventeen where he met with the head of Morocco state owned mining company. Pruitt's trip was arranged by a lobbyist Richard smocking who accompanied it and help set up meetings for him. As we drive through the streets of Lyon, everywhere are signs of occupation. The city was built up under Spain's fascist. Dictator Francisco Franco and has been occupied by Morocco since the mid seventies. We pass the United Nations manure so compound, we're just over two hundred UN peacekeepers, monitor the nineteen Ninety-one ceasefire between Morocco and the police REO but are legally prevented from intervening to stop human rights abuses. And we drive past the high walls of the notorious black prison, where generations of Sahara, always have been detained tortured and disappeared. One of them is a Harare independence activists Ahmad Hamad who welcomes us into his home over t he describes his torture at the hands of the Moroccan authorities during his years spent as a political prisoner kalimba the linked electrodes to my ears and something to my under and to my tongue and then the sensitive parts. Yelling when he could. If I was bone that. And when they use that manual generating I would hear it cranking little Manuel and in a small. Oh. Each time. They crank that generate up. I felt that my heart was going to burst oath of body. Monica jibbidy, the UN secretary general banking moon called the Moroccan presence in Western Sahara, innoculation. What was your response? You'll will be. Well, my answer is clear. We are people. We have a homeland. We have a culture we have all these things that cost the country. We are very different from the Moroccan impossible for us to be Moroccans. We have no common history. There's nothing that links us to them whatsoever. I say that are damnation comes from the natural resources. We have here if it wasn't for these natural resources Morocco would never have invaded Western Sahara with the sport of Spain. And. Few Western Sahara, is a territory rich in natural resources, which Morocco has exploited since the nineteen seventy five invasion, despite international court, rulings establishing that the kingdom has no sovereignty over the territory Morocco controls, the majority of the world's reserves of phosphates a mineral used in fertilizers that's critical to feed the world phosphate is transported more than sixty miles along the world's longest conveyor belt from mines in the desert to the port of Lyon, where it's loaded onto cargo ships bound for the US, Canada and countries around the world. Western Sahara's fishing waters are among the richest on earth supplying the European Union with much of its seafood foreign energy companies continue to explore for offshore oil. Even though the UN says, the prospecting, violates international law, even Western Sahara sand is so loaded onto ships bound for European resorts. A pair of recent rulings by Europe's highest court declared Western Sahara is not a part of Morocco, and that European Union trade deals cannot include products from the occupied. Territories ships carrying phosphates from Western Sahara, have been held up and ports and Panama and South Africa. After the poll a Saria challenged ownership of the cargo claiming it belongs to the Saharawi people. It's a Harare's are fighting the plunder through peaceful demonstrations and through the courts when they hold protests in their refugee camps in Algiers, thousands turn out to oppose foreign companies profiting from the occupation like the European oil and gas driller Sunley owned energy. But when Sarah always protest and occupied Western Sahara, they're routinely met with violence by Moroccan authorities. It's still day two of our trip to Western Sahara, as we cross town to meet with more Saharaui independence activists once again, we're followed by a man on a motorcycle. We arrive making our way past pro independence for Fiji and meet an icon of the Sahara resistance. So of Kaya drapes herself in the red white black and green flag of Western Sahara. Just holding this flag and public is enough to get an activist beaten and arrested height. My name is on a high. I was born under Moroccan role in the occupiers city booster as I live. Just like any other seraglio woman who subjected to torture, and beatings, and in my opinion, my case as milder than many other in two thousand seven so tunnel was peacefully protesting with fellow college students said university and Marquette Morocco when police surrounded her semi Annika may ninth was an anniversary that also always celebrate really hundred. Can we were a group of five hundred survive we students out? Gonna hey, you left the university campus marching peacefully waving flags and chanting. There are no alternatives to self determination of they'd have talked sealed off the street to noisy as tear-gas spreads. So Tana was beaten by police one of whom singled her out for more abuse. Often one of them recognize me any jabbed right at my eye with his baton when he did that I've been over, and I could feel my eyeball in my hand. I was yelling at him. Hey, you Morocchino pulled out. My I saw Tun ordeal. Continued in an ambulance as she was tortured on her way to the hospital continued where I I told him I had a hemorrhage in my he tried to put his finger into my eyes, and I didn't get any medical treatment till the next morning at eleven when a group of Moroccans came to be telling someone to so up, my I because when I was in the ambulance another woman was crying and telling me, you're is gone. They were trying to sell at my eyes. So other women could see it and think twice before getting involved in activism. They wanted to make an example of the come on. Do you have confidence that Western Sahara will become an independent nation kids, that's fishing because the determination of the people invincible what we've got his true. We've lost many men and women over this one day it shall be liberated go even losing her. I as not stopped sultana Kaya from continuing her protests for Western Saharan independence as we will witness for ourselves. Even during our short, stay in Western Sahara. This is democracy now special four days in Western Sahara, Africa, less common. This. Yeah. That's a heroic singer Meriem has son from her album lion on fire. This is a democracy now special for days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony. On day three of our trip to lie. Yoon the capital of Western Sahara, we invite a Sahara, we activists to our hotel. How quota is stopped by the hotel's receptionist as he tries to enter she calls the thirties to report an unregistered visitor. Forbidding him from coming up stairs after we push hard and threaten to leave the hotel. She relents saying he could speak to us for five minutes. Kota arrives clutching a photo of his brother who was forcibly disappeared in nineteen ninety two. He's been searching for him ever since the who would canoe if you'll Seva this is my brother code who was abducted November seventh nineteen Ninety-two Moroccan plain clothes police at five in the morning to be busy didn't from crime. Walk for Canada. He was because of his involvement in the demonstration at the Najjar hotels, November sixth. They woke us up very early in the morning and the situation was very ugly to the top four plainclothes policemen came to our house, and they have -ducted him. Where was he taken two months in? Under the Makerfield in Michigan the information that we have is inconclusive because we didn't see anything in the rest of the people who are -ducted with them around five hundred people were blindfolded, my brother and our neighbor saw we don't know anything about them hundreds released, but about two hundred cubs there. She me seeing the alum way of how did half its disappearance effect, your family and the who would love him. It was a land mine that exploded within the family presence was the glue. The United us. And my father had diabetes because of the insults. You heard on Dave the abduction he became paralyzed and remained that way for the rest of his life. Whether the full tuten that my mother would not dare to enter the home again, and she stayed with other siblings for a year. How are your brothers and sisters affected by half its superior? It's a follow. They. Not food in deeply affected them and had a great impact on the motions because they're very young at the time witnessed all the atrocities related to doctrine, they've always had this fear inside of these bad memories. They've been left in the backs of the mines. Had a have any a cabinet? Support. Also, I was victim this too. Because when I was getting ready to go to Geneva to participate in the UN Human Rights Council. The confiscated my passports for five years couldn't recover. My passport often won't bottom of could've added won't call upon all the free world and all the people in the world to help us reveal the truth about my brother's whereabouts. Call upon the Moroccan government to reveal the fate of all of our sons. Shippen? On October, ninth two thousand ten tens of thousands of Sahara, always fed up with decades of occupation erected, large protests, encampment in the desert outside Lyon known as DEM the camp preceded the Arab spring and quickly grew to include whole families living among thousands of tents. This is human rights activists as forty laying out. The protesters demands. If you start your freedom of speech freedom to demonstrate the right to housing the right to work. Dollah legal context of the territories of Western Sahara, as Nana Thomas. Territories. All. Speaking unto Micra see now renown author and activist known Trump's game called the the day music uprising the start of the Arab spring. The current wave of protest actually began last November in Western Sahara, which is under Moroccan rule. Lifter brutal invasion it I'll keep Asian. We're gonna forces came in carried out destroyed the ten cities. A lot of killed wound on and then it spread November two thousand ten Rockin forces used tear gas clubs and water cannons. To force the protesters from their tents before firing live rounds and setting the camp on fire. The pulsar area says the raid killed thirty six people with many hundreds more injured rested, many were tortured in custody, including twenty three activists were accused of contributing to the violence. They were tried convicted and given harsh sentences in July of two thousand seventeen it was the latest chapter in a long history of repression against her always at the hands of Moroccan forces. Many of those detained were represented by the Sahara lawyer Muhammad the beep or Gabi, he's a former activist who disappeared in Moroccan prisons for sixteen years. He's also the brother of the recently deceased Pola Saria leader Mohammed Abdel Aziz air is one of just four Saharaui lawyers permitted by Morocco to try cases in court bought it, but the pod and woo to be the the first stage of the arrests were made there, and they were brutal beyond imagination before. And the Houston extensive number of strange tools for torture and beatings who fee about the home. Some of the prisoners were even forced and drink their own urine. They showed up before the interrogation judge covered in blood. Why was good day music? Such a turning point. What happened why were people protesting? Did they music kinda north has Dame as equals a turning point? Because it was a very genuine form of mass protests like Western Sahara, has never witnessed nor has the rest of the world audit. Some have called it. The first IRA spring before Tunisia and before Egypt. Non. Doing shook then had the kind of Kadena to La Belle out of. Yes. Without any doubt. This was the beginning of the Arab spring every media outlet after game you Zeke could only talk about how well organized well managed, and well prepared the protest in Western Sahara, was is. Is he? Facade. Gotta be woman from here at spread Tunisian. Egypt is to swim. And of course, when the American academic noted that this was the beginning of the spring. He was correct at olive gun. I'd also. After leaving Muhammed argue B's office, we drive to a restaurant near the airport for dinner as usual where followed. So we sat down here at a restaurant near the airport lay. We came into vast empty restaurants and within about fifteen minutes after we ordered about hundred mainly men some women dressed in traditional west Saharan. Dress carrying Moroccan flags all came in. And they sat down all around us one has an English sign. That says shame. I knew when our translator Jamal got up to see what was going on plainclothesmen. Not. Introducing dress came up to him and said, they wanna speak to Amy Goodman when we're done. Our car's been hemmed in by number of cars, and we also hear there was a protest in another part of the city where one of the people we interviewed was beaten up just own. Did something finishing and smarter. How are we talking about spitting? And he was bitching. Some of the people here came over very close to took pictures. We're eager to leave. So we can find out what happened to him. A and other protesters across town. But the moment we stand up. We're followed out of the restaurant by the crowd outdoors were surrounded on all sides and prevented from driving away. The pro Morocco protesters unfurled large custom banners printed on vinyl. Their starkly reminiscent of the banner photographed at a Moroccan state-sanctioned. Protest against UN secretary general BankE moon in March of two thousand sixteen after he used the word occupation back at the restaurant. One of the vinyl banners with red and black lettering has a photo of me interviewing Sahara, we activists with the caption. Shame on you. We're standing here outside of a restaurant that we came to near the airport in a group, but fifty sixty seventy people in the west to her address have. To send it on the restaurant carrying signs that say shame on you journalist person of Algiers area. Yes. For the American Moroccan, friendships and dismembering countries goes hand in hand with strengthening the ISIS. I thought we'd start by talking to one of the organizers who is freelance journalists who trained in Rhode Island. So if you could tell us your name, by the way, I'm one of those is so I'm just Wellington with the people might philosopher, always to talk to you about what they think of your visits on about issues related to the issue with us are, and how did you know that I was at this restaurant. You know, this is a small town and everybody knows everybody win liver for delegation comes to to the area. So everybody is aware of this Airways an empty restaurant. We just came in five minutes. This is the restaurant which is well known to the people on the for example, maybe one of my cousins. There with his immediately check way their head, and you're just setting sixty people in west center, people are gathering the Tove me to volunteer with them for the interpretation as we speak with Ashir die a number of men in plain clothes stand on the perimeter taking photos and video speaking on so phones, local activists would later identify some of them members of the Moroccan interior ministry, including at least one official who's been accused of torturing many Sahara, always said come when I'm been up to SOGA regional coordinator for the National Front for the defence of national integrity in Lyon. I came here to represent my organization to say that we saw always are in our territory, and we will do anything to defend. Right. But how did you know? I was here. We'll talk about because I'm always following the news. And this is something that concerns me. I'm required to know. This was I in the news at this restaurant. Now, as you know, this is normal. You're always aware of who comes to our territory when it comes to the national cause who told you that I was here. This is the main restaurant in my city. I came to visit it and suddenly I saw you. And you carry Moroccan flag with you everywhere you go. It's very customary to be giving out Moroccan flags and the restaurant. One. Of course, I'm representing an organization whose main goal is to defend the national interest. The flags are always in our homes. Always on our persons or flags are always reading. Thank God, always prepare a one person carrying all giving them out. No, we were basically helping him. Do you understand me? Some of us are responsible for the national flags. Others communication or work is always organized in ready. Own up. Now, it's getting dark. We're getting increasingly nervous. The sun sets on the restaurant on my as the pro Morocco. Protesters prevent us from leaving for over an hour. It's a clear effort to intimidate us. And to keep us away from the protests across town when we're finally able to escape Jamal receives a call a number of Sahara. We activists have been badly beaten. We race to the home where they're gathered to recover from their injuries inside. We find a number of women tending to an activist named Z's visa who's wreck Shing in vomiting from her injuries. Should she go to a hospital meds may go to hospital because they will not admit around. She's also scared to go that the activists have recorded video of their protests and subsequent beatings by Moroccan forces on cell phones and camcorders when our cameras couldn't capture citizen. Journalists could. We begin downloading their footage as activists Meena Bali describes what happened. So as the money because of your presence here we wanted to have a protest and show you how things are here how we are treated. Sentence that they've been it's been about two years since any journalists have access the territory. Out off navy Damon who became chanting slogans making peace signs with our fingers as usual, and then they intervened against the street. Via not MS Moore thought in if they were a large group, they pushed us into a narrow street. They took me one of them have my hair. And he started painting after wounded me here under my nose, grab my breasts and continued beating against the wall. What is he's? He's with any Struckmann the kidney hit her head against the wall. And then she fell on the ground at my feet Anglia's ammonia was being dragged there until ton of. I'm gonna go with the women to see their ruses. They're going to show me. And then we'll see what we can show the camera. We follow Tana Kaya into a small bedroom. She pulls back her Melva her traditional Sahara robe and shows me fresh bruises on her leg both arms and on her breast. So describe what happened to Monica to all of us were participating surveys in the peaceful demonstrations for right to self-determination, I was trying to gather my sisters for the protest of five o'clock in the whole area was besieged in any come Hossam. They were insulting us beating us dragging us and using violence to let us know that we weren't going to be able to protest they tried to single out and pushed us into narrow streets where they can beat us without anyone observing. The what you saw today is nothing compared to what we've witnessed over and over since nineteen seventy five, but the news never gets out. On the snack. Women. We're not backing off until we get our final victory and liberate our homeland almost beatings will not deter us from continuing the fight than even if we die. It will be a sacrifice. So that our sons and future generations can live in freedom that we've been denied Hurley any keep mashing nothing. How other Sahara's have been injured as well. My food left. Here shows us black and blue bruises on her arms. They hit me on the slapped me on the face and beat me underneath. My Kellyanne Germany pulls back her mouth to show us gruesome injuries, both her arms and both breasts are badly bruised like a number of these women. She's been sexually assaulted down your arm, your black and blue marks and on your breast right up to the nipple, the police grabbed her, and you see all of the marks of the black and blue marks in the red marks this very very old. But then enchanted once they intervene against us. One of them pulled in twisted me by my breasts, and I was screaming out loud. Hey, you're hurting my breasts, but he didn't care next. We meet the man who risked his safety to film. The assault on protesters from a nearby. Rooftop, Hammoud Lee is a citizen journalist with the group it keep media more more. Can you describe what you're watching here? Money had to go Leah's your money when a man in plainclothes pulling her into a narrow street where they could beat her up. Yeah. This street where they usually beat people has never been recorded before. May have seen force them here because they knew people were using their cameras to document everything on the mainstream. Full defending. I was lucky to get a clear shot at what was happening to mean about and as he's a beast. But unfortunately, this informer Saami and then notified all the others. Have. And then what happened? I tried to move to the next window out of sight. But my hiding place was revealed. And when you have more than moving when they saw me they tried to break down the door. They stormed the building. The house owner went outside and they beat him up. Minoza uncle I fled the house. I close the door to the rooftop and jump to another house to save the camera gear, and that was my exit. Why are you a media activist? Why do you video Renuka there early cousin his own because there's a total media blackout across the region. And there is no international media to cover everything. That's happened. Him and volunteers activists this is so we can transmit the suffering to the outside world through our cameras. Doc in the living room as easib easily has stopped vomiting from our injuries. And it's propped up on pillows. She's able to speak with us with her husband and teenage son sitting beside her. He started beating me up there and kicking my stomach then they tried to strangle me by my mouth. I felt something around my throat, and I couldn't breeze then I fainted. I don't remember anything. I just remember that I found myself here, you said they kicked you in your kidney who yes. And also the kicked me in my head which already had stitches from previous speeding and then kicked my ribs. And yet you still came out for another demonstration. Why is it so important to you a new book this very important for me because want liberation of my country because I want to live like other women in the world in freedom and to see my children and my country free. What are you calling for? And know, they call on the free world to help us free our country get liberated so that we can live our lives like normal women around the world that. That. After leaving the activists, we return to our hotel. It's Dr where certain we're under heavy surveillance. It was another new car. Awhile. Soon. There's a commotion outside our room on the boulevard the loan. Cars you're making u-turns outside of our hotel. Their drivers clearly alarmed over something happening further up the street Jamal gets a phone call from Muhammad Myra of a keep media. He describes the police violence. He's witnessing nearby. We climb a set of stairs to the hotel's rooftop. We spot protesters on a sidewalk below a few hundred feet away. They begin to scatter just as hotels nightmare demands. We leave or. We quietly descend in return to our room from our window. We spot about a dozen men throwing stones then turning and running away moments later police in riot gear. Right. Charging the protesters and throw in Bronx of their own. As the night wears on the confrontation between Sahara, we activists and the police wines down. We heard later there'd been arrests we spend our few remaining hours at the hotel taking precautions to protect the footage. We'd recorded over our trip to occupied Western Sahara, then make our way to the airport. Now will even the hotel. At the gate we'd pass through a final gauntlet of Moroccan mukhabarat door intelligence agents as we head to the plane. One of them says a hope you had a good time in Moroccan, Sahara, Moroccan, Sahara, the term the Moroccan government uses but no country in the world. Officially recognizes Morocco occupies, Western Sahara, Africa's last colony. For democracy. Now, I'm Amy Goodman with John Hamilton, Mike Burke, and Dennis Moines. So. This has been a democracy now special in December the United Nations host talks in Geneva between Morocco and the Sahara liberation movement known as the police REO front along with Al jeera and Martina though, be the first such talks since two thousand twelve four days in Western Sahara, Africa's last colony was directed by John Hamilton and produced with our news director, Mike Burke, and Dennis moynahan special. Thanks to me Cutty own. Julie Crosby Marian Barnard Brendan Alan, Hugh Grant, and all those who helped us along the way all music by the late Saharaui singer Marian on.

Western Sahara Sahara Morocco United Nations US Moroccan government Lyon Sahara Amy Goodman Jamal Sahara Africa Africa Spain Harare Sahara association Sahara north Morocco Marrakech Morocco
Episode 218: BA's Best Chocolate Chip Cookies

Bon Appetit Foodcast

48:49 min | 1 year ago

Episode 218: BA's Best Chocolate Chip Cookies

"Bon food cast on ramp report this week. I chat with senior food editor Chris Morocco about best chocolate chip cookies. Chris literally spent two months conceptualizing researching developing and testing this recipe with something as divisive as what makes a perfect cookie. It was of course, not an easy process. We go deep on why he made the decisions he made and even taste some of his cookies warm out of the oven. And after that, we are hearing one of the segments from our live red sauce themed podcast from a few weeks ago. It's Kris kin time talking with Clare savage about his recipe for classic Thira. Let's do this. Morocco. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing. All right. You come bearing chocolate chip cookies, and I was thinking like chalk chip cookies like everyone loves chocolate chip cookies. They do they do they love them. And they have big opinions about things everyone. Everyone loves a particular type of chocolate chip cookie. They want very chocolate chip cookie. Right. Right. Right. And it's your job to make chocolate chip cookies for all. And is that even possible? You know on the on the the far side of this project now and kinda looking back. I sort of think oh my gosh. You know, the things the things I didn't know back, then, you know, just in terms of trying to please everybody and the hubris of thinking, oh, maybe I could find one chocolate chip cookie recipe to unite them all well, I'm gonna say, no. But you could make one that. Hey, this is a really great cookie for what it is in in. Maybe that could be indisputable that you aqap. Did you accomplish what you set out to do? You think I think I did? I think I did. I developed a recipe that I think brings a classic chocolate chip cookie into the modern era and puts a stamp on it or I mean what what's what's wrong with just the basic tollhouse recipe. I think I grew up eating toll Helge beating tollhouse. Yeah. Are we quote unquote, miss remembering how good they were. I think a little bit. It's all it's like trying grandma's old recipes and be like, okay, interesting. Definitely changed lovey grandma. But it's funny. So my wife actually made toll house cookies a little while ago. Two straight up just straight up. Our son was having friends. There was something on out kids and stuff. So she just literally bought the, you know, and you know, you smell them in the oven. And that's that's always intoxicating. Right. Whatever kind of chocolate chip cookies in the oven. We all know that smell like, oh, but when a had the cookies themselves two hours later. They felt pretty how should I say this, mono dimensional? Yeah. There wasn't a lot going on not a lot of nuance. Right. It's kinda sweet it's a little bit chocolate. But but but the chocolate flavor is a little bit middling. I wanna say beckon back in my day, Maxine Rappaport, aka my mom, she would do tollhouse. I wanna she would do toll house cookies, but she would then fold in oatmeal oatmeal chocolate chip not with raisins now. Just now, they're they're literally, no raisins. In that at least gave it some dimension. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll so you get a little bit of texture little crunch and stuff. And we're gonna talk about this when go back to go deep and your new be as best chocolate. Chip cookie recipe. This also goes back to the seventies before she would always insist on half butter half crisco shortly. So in her mind the butter introduced flavor to the cookie, but the crisco kind of kept it crisp Kurt. Yeah. Cr- that crisp tender melt in your mouth kind of quality my grandma, honestly, you know, she used all crisco in her pie crusts, and nobody was complaining at the time. You know, it's also could you didn't know. Now. I know but still. Yeah. I mean, this is this is a kind of a huge exciting challenge for me. And it took a while. This was a very deep dive. Normally, I haven't binder, you know, let's like this would be for like, maybe six recipes. This is one recipe, and I've got kind of like a half inch stock of papers here. So you came with this this this purple folder minoa folder with all sorts of notes. I also listen to an audio file of you discussing your process with Alex bags and Sasha LeVine. It kinda felt like I was like auditing like a bio engineering class senior year guys, you were using terms like hugely impacts in implications in repercussions and Domingo. And I'm like, I thought we were pull the caps melting or something God. So you're not just say, I'm gonna make yummy recipe. You're going deep on this thing. Yeah. We you know, you have to 'cause this is look as we discussed before with. Ps where everybody has had it. Everybody has a frame of reference for what they want. There is a huge responsibility to analyze kind of what's come before you and think critically about everything you're bringing to the process and about everything that you're asking people to do what was your starting point? Starting point was I cooked through six recipes from people who I respect, and who have you know, have done chocolate chip cookies people like during Greenspan, I did one of Alison Romans recipes out the short ones, a different one that she had done for BA ages ago that I called Lindsey hunt had done a huge deep dive at BuzzFeed talking about sort of the, you know, the advantages of using melted butter in chocolate chip cookies, I did violet bakery. I did Cook's illustrated. I did the doctor as recipe that ran in the New York Times, you know, and and I had sort of various results, you know, some were good like the violet bakery only uses egg yolks. So there was that kind of like really interesting kind of like yoki Eggy. So. Savory kinda quality to the cookies. However, they domed sort of horribly and we're little bit tough a little bit in like the kind of Levin, but not as good as Levin to Levin. Levin, lavar the ban big. Van bigger here on the Upper West side of New York. And so that is kind of cultish spot where those I don't even know if I would call those cookies, they are a whole other level of indulgence in gooey in buttery and crackly, and I that's like a whole. I it's a thing. It's a thing. And it's like, you could that's an interesting point of view. But like would you would we ever call that be as best? No because it's not appealing. It's like it's kind of. It's not like the booty of cookies you're not going to drive that thing down the street. Okay. So trace all these begs, for instance, I'll beg she was remarking how she always loved the Cook's illustrated one these Brown butter in that one which interests nice sort of flavor. No and cooks illustrated does all these tests. Why wouldn't cook? Social just be perfect. Sure. I mean that that's a great point. I mean, I take a shot at cooks. Oh, no. You know? I mean, look as somebody pointed out in their one star review of my cookie online for having even made it. Yeah. You know, they were like, oh, well, this is remarkably similar to similar to cook Cilla straighted. And it's like well. Yeah. Because it's remarkably similar to every chocolate. Chip cookie recipe. It's very, you know, precisely proportioned ingredients, you know, that all have to be proportionate, you know, one to another and have a scaled sufficient, you know, kind of two sheet trays worth of cookies, you know, so yeah, they're all kind of the same. But it's it's the details. That matters. How about we do this? How about you? Walk us through the recipe and for each step. Let us know what how you got there. And how it might differ from other versions or how might be similar to other versions that are out there. Okay. Okay. So the first step of this recipe is to just mix together your dry ingredients similar to many cookie recipes. So we've got all purpose flour and right there. I have to stop right off the bat and say, you know, the doctor as recipe the Tujia popular for a New York Times calls for a combination of bread flour and pastry. Flour? And you know, right. There. You know, you've kind of like you've asked people to probably go out and get to flowers that they don't normally have on hand in their in their homes and may not use again part of this also part of a as best recipe. Is you want to be excellent? But you you wanted to be there should be should be relatively accessible. I sure and we you know, we were incredibly mindful of that kind of every at every turn in terms of what we want ask what we were trying to ask people to do. And you know, what we didn't want to ask them to do so point being did all purpose. Flour baking soda soda not powder. And I'll get into that later a good amount of kosher salt in this case, it's a quarter one end quarter teaspoons of diamond crystal, kosher salt more three quarters of teaspoon of Morton salt Morton, kosher more talked about this a lot, but he's different salts at different size. Bristles rains or whatever. And that affects this one level. Always be mindful that on any recipe until we always use diamond kosher as our measuring stick. Yeah. And we try to call. Oh it out. You know, when in for large quantities when you might need to convert. Okay. I feel like any dessert any grownup desert. These days sell salty like we love this. We didn't know that before. Now, we do I think we knew it. But we didn't know we know is now everything is like caramel or salted whatever the notion of salt with in the batter as opposed to or not necessarily in addition to the sprinkle of like Maldon on top yet. You know, I did that in a previous version specifically on tight addition to the one of the dishes to the Sultan, the batter and Andy came down really hard on it and any Burgon he didn't like something. Andy ruins, everything, you know, that he had a fair point though. Which is that to us like we think nothing of putting flaky salt on a desert, you know, and calling it Instagram worthy for a lot of people. That's that already kind of renders a potentially a recipe inaccessible like why is there salt on my cookie or do I now need to go out and buy a dollar box of Molin. Right. And again, you know, we of all the things we wanted to ask people to do like that was not one of them. And it was a look that I have to say like maybe a little bit played out. Oh, okay. All right. So I find that interesting as best friends to be is not only does not only comprise what a respite needs. But also what it doesn't eat. Yeah. Oh for sure. 'cause it's not necessarily about making the end. All be all doesn't matter takes three days. You know, you have to rest. The cookie dough on forty eight hours. Yeah. Nobody wants to rest the cookie dough. And there was I did there were several recipes that are like okay now chill for up to forty eight hours. But minimum twenty four and it's like come on. You're making cookies here. Like, you wanna be eating them within fifteen twenty your house. You might have had a few bottles of wine, you decide to make coke as your show. We can't have these. I'm in Warren back over here on Sunday night happening. No, thanks. All right. So the next step of the process is Browning one. Stick eight tablespoons of butter and Browning it you know, to the point where it is Brown. I mean, not just like lightly toasty. But you know, taking it right to the point where. For it is like full on, you know, kinda hazelnut. He Brown not yet. Okay. So we're transferring that to a bowl and as soon as it's cooled just slightly after a minute were adding more whole butter to melt how much more four tablespoons. Okay. And that is a similarity with the Cook's illustrated recipe where they're using a combination of Brown butter and whole butter. It's something that I talked with Clare a lot about and the reason is this. And this is where like we go go full on, you know, kind of like scienc- Brown butter has had all the water cooked out of it. That's how you are able to get the fat to begin to actually toast, the milk solids because it climbed basically the fat climbs above the boiling point of water. Water is driven off the milk. Solids toast. Great. So now, you have this lovely liquid fat. You know with all these kind of, you know, suspended toasted kind of milk solids in it. However. That butter. No longer has water and water is an essential ingredient for developing some gluten which he want in the cookie meaning water is going to act on the flower during the mixing process and. The engineering. Keep it real tame here, man. I'm was gonna I'm just gonna take your word for this. All right. So we have full stick Brown butter half. A stick chopped up put in the Brown butters gently melts with the water still in their exactly. And you know, honestly, like Brown butter is great nothing, but Brown butter it can be a little bit overwhelming. Okay. So there's a balance that so we got to say we've got our fat. Now, one Cup of packed dark Brown sugar goes into what is that deal between dark Brown light Brown? It just has more molasses. So basically, they're both refined sugars that have had molasses Oded back into them. But if I if I only had light Brown sugar, my cupboard, it should still work, but I really want you to have the dark Brown. And this is one of the things like three stars at a four star resigned. Right back. Like did you use? Right. I'm like, no. I didn't have any big. Well, I've been going through this on DM's like an Instagram so many times over the past couple of weeks. It's been wild. You know, just like taking it step by step. You know? So yeah. The in part of why that molasses content is essential is because of the baking soda, which we mentioned as our second ingredient baking soda needs the presence of an acid in order to create the reaction you want to create the leavening you want in the cookie. Sorry, man deep I now. So wait can we before we get to chemical reactions, but already it seems you know, talking about like the toll house version already were Browning butter. Introducing dark Brown sugar. I can already sense at this cookies going to more depth the flavor for Sherman or tollhouse. Absolutely. You know, 'cause tollhouse it's, you know, it's it's white flour white a lot of white sugar. Maybe some Brown sugar. You know, there's just you're you're leaving a lot of potential for flavor behind. Okay. So all right. So we've got our got are dark Brown sugar one Cup packed dark Brown. Then you have a quarter Cup of granulated sugar. And now the ratio of dark to light sugar has major implications for the texture of the cookie so dark Brown sugar or light Brown sugar. Either. One of those two will mean a chewier cookie granulated sugar will create a crispier cookie. But we found we could tip the scales. Wave further in the direction of dark Brown sugar than most recipes. Okay. I'm going to interject Emma, a real loud to taste the cookies. Now, this point do you think? Yes. Emma, says yes, you brought I wanna sort of taste what you're talking about as you're talking. Oh, yeah. Go for have a tray in front of eight cookies. They're they're not way for thin what they're on the flatter side. They're not they don't dome, they're not bulbous. Maybe they're a little bit convex in the middle edged on. This is a better. Nice crackly sort of like the salt flats in some desert's texture the crackles throughout it the beautiful glossy melted. Chocolate. Shop. Thanks, not chips when these baked I made these these may became out of thirty minutes ago. Ooh, I got a little bit of that on the audio. Now what I really like about what's happening here is you have that kind of audible crunch. That's happening on that outer edge of the cookie where the very edge like pizza crush. Yeah. It'll shatter you know, I can crumble that. Right. But then interior is chewy. You know, there is kind of like a a richness and a moist nece to that. And it has like a chew to it. And I think that's fair to say, that's probably why the lot of people want they want crispy and chewy. That's what I heard over and over crispy and chewy crispy chewy, you know. So this is not to your point. This is not a tall cookie. This is not a toll house cookie that of really wants to stand right up off the the baking sheet there is a little bit of like a kind of like camel hump, you know, a little bit just from sloping into the center. But yeah, it's it's not a full on classic profile. Like, we definitely brought our own kind of signature looked to this. And so all right. So we we've got the. Refined sugar and the dark Brown in that in that with the melted and Brown butter that allows you to kind of get a crispy and chewy what else of hey on next. So internet bull one whole egg and to egg yolks I brought my own ice. One. But you work in a test. There's an Espresso machine. I know I have I have to be under caffeinated. Yes. So one whole egg just because the white, you know, is going to introduce some moisture to the dough. And you don't want the dough to be too wet. And then the yolks because the thing that I really liked about those file bakery. Cookies was that you know, that yoki kinda savory quality was really nice in there. The yolk. Also, you know helps create a little bit of firmness and controls. The spread of the cookie. It also if you hold this up to the light there is a sheen probably about three and a half inch diameter. That's great eyeball. Yeah. Three and a half inches. So, you know, couple people have mentioned, oh, you know, these spread quite a bit. And you know, these do. Yeah. Goes from being kind of a a one quarter inch fear roughly two three and a half inch wide and kinda see with some of them. There's almost like there's ripples like a Hebel is dropped in the lake worth. Well is in the middle of the cooking. Ripples outwards as bakes. Yeah. And honestly like they are a little bit like snowflakes each one's going to be a little bit this American. It was good. This is torture. You know, there some of them bake up a little bit more like crackly, you know, and some of them bake up a little bit more Ripley. And I honestly wish I could tell you. I knew the exact reason why and I I like the fact that they're in 'perfect, celebrate them all so. But some more than others. So you have not combined the wet and the dry yet. No. So so the eggs get beaten into the sugar butter mixture. And that's the point at which the dough starts to come together in this kind of Otake. Smooth ish mass that starts to take on comic creamy, look and hold on doing this with a stand mixer whipped. By hand. Does it matter rate point we are doing this with a whisk by hand because you need a mixer for this recipe. You can do this all by hand. Yeah. I don't want. I mean, I love kitchen aid. But the whole thing like you should be able to make things without owning a stand mixer told on blessed stand mixer, but I don't want to go out and buy drop orange dots. Hooky, you know. I mean for there's certain things certain deserts. Yeah. I get it. Okay. But for cookies that was the other thing, you know, like, I I loved Dory's cookies. She was the first recipe that I tried where it was two teaspoons of Annella extract. And man, you taste that you taste that beautiful. Flora of the Manila when us good vanilla like the halo, Allah or the Nielsen Massey. It's unbelievable. The difference at that make to Bill. Thank you. Sorry. So my feeling was I just I didn't want people to have. To like have a mixer, you know, in order to make this cookie, and that is a real difference with a lot of cookie recipes. So even ones that I really liked such as Dory's your creaming the butter and the sugar together, and you're beating air into it. But not too much air and trying to explain to people the moment. That's like, okay. Well, this properly creamed, but, you know, don't go too far or you're going to have a Katy airy very light kind of textured like Rome. Nobody nobody wants that. You know, wanna cook not a cake? So that's the thing. It's like, okay. We'll I'd rather give you a slightly more spread out. But like chewy crispy cookie because you can make that by hand. So you've combined dry in the wet so yeah. And then just told combined and eggs go in vanilla goes in and then the dry goes in and at that point, you're not using a whisk. You're just using rubber spatula you're bringing that dote together. And then the chocolate chunks go in. You did not say chocolate chip. I'd certainly did not. So shook we call this as chocolate best chocolate chunk cookie or BA's best chocolate. Chip cookie. See the thing is chocolate chunks are thing. There are thing that you can buy and this is not that. And there's a specific reason for that. So number one. Purely visually. The with. Yeah. Maybe just mildly. So like this looks like a modern chocolate chip cookie. Right. And what do you mean by that? I would I mean is like if I give you a cook this same cookie but with chocolate chips in it. You're gonna look at it. And it's more like an emoji. Yeah. It's like this is like there's like there's like little tar pits around the cookie where there's like bobbling melted. Pots of white goofiness. And there's like there's even a couple places where you can see the surface detail that existed in the bar of chocolate over the rules wears. Yeah. So what are so you're buying your advising what? So chocolate chips, very hard to find chocolate chips above you know, kind of whatever fifty percent cow same with chocolate chunks. It's very hard to say ca Cal I certainly did. So so so what I get away with it. What am I buying? So you are buying just bar chocolate. Six ounces of sixty to seventy percent bittersweet chocolate that you chop yourself. And this is one of those moments where that's what I'm asking to interject. So I do think nowadays you can go to a any decent or even like just kinda random grocery store, and they all had that shelves with all the different types of bar chocolate on their species, whether it's guitar or for what's the one in San Francisco geared Ellie, Ellie, chocolate and take note of what the percentages are. I think sixty is kind of that still sweet. But just starting to get bitter seventy percent more KC, the less sweet is can be seventy two if you wanna more grownup, cookie, lean or seventy if you want it still be a little bit sweet lean more sixty to say, so it should be up to you as a cookie consumer for sure how bitter or not bitter you want with chips. You often don't have a choice. Like, I mean, what percentage is like the Nestle morsels. In the in the percentage gives you more exact other than just the the phrase bittersweet, which could mean a lot of different things. Exactly. And it's a good thing to point out. And you know, so when you chop the chocolate yourself. Yeah, you get some of these massive shards, then melt into these pools on a clean, non garlicky, cutting with a knife and not your best night. Is there anything we're sick? When you're making yourself, a cocktail. You're like, Ooh, I wanna make myself Baca grapefruit and your slice and the grapefruit and you make your Bacchus Ota when the and maybe I did this last night. And then all what does that taste like, oh that was the garlic from last night when I made the. It's so real you need a clean cutting board and use like, honestly, a serrated knife is great, you know, for for my for my grapefruit or for the chocolate. Chefs just put my. I'm never gonna use my best night for something. Like that. You know, so. Yeah. Leave and then that way you like irregular pieces. Yeah. Exactly show some chunks. So that then disperses through the cookie, and then gives you this beautiful kind of overhead view that. I think just like it it kind of just defines the look of the cookie, and the feel sort or should got your batter better. Okay. Then you fold in the chocolate chunks throughout yet till they're evenly relatively evenly purply dispersed. Yep. And then are we resting this? So we're not resting on the only thing. I, you know, I may update the recipe with some language just that for the DOE. It's like an update or totally get alert get into Lert on there. I know seriously. I mean, you know, I've been most I mean, honestly, most of the photos I've been seeing on Instagram are honestly like fantastic. And I'm so delighted there are some people. What's your handle in Morocco? Chris at Morocco. Chris M O R CO just one. At Ronca, Chris. Yes, you get a lot of these DMZ says. Yeah, a lot you know, what I'm trying to reposed, you know, like the successes, and even some of the fails, maybe somebody didn't leave enough room for all the cookies spread on the cookie sheet, whatever, but otherwise they were looking good. You know, this is if the DOE should kinda hold its shape when you go to put it on the cookie sheet. The door. I love an ice cream scoop. But I realized people don't have those face cream scoop that has a little the the the sort of scoops it out. And so if you're going to you about how big is each three tablespoons of three tablespoons. Okay. So a lot. Yeah. That's a good amount. Because these cookies do spread a lot you can really only get eight per baking sheet, which means you're making sixteen bigger cookies total. I notice the on your baking sheet. This is an all purpose sort of piece of advice Europe fan of Parchman paper. Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just it. It just really saves you clean up. It allows the cookies to spread and not stick nicely. You don't need a coat it with anything as just yes. Super easy. We have in the in the test kitchen. We also have the parchment papers at pull out one sheet at a time as oppose on a roll which exactly 'cause they lie flat. They I have to buy that. Okay. I'll send you on some. All right. So you. You space them out about how many inches in between each each ball. Do you think for safety three three inches? Yeah. Okay. At least. Yeah. I kind of stagger to and then to offset below zigzagging down. Exactly. So when you're ready to bake these finally, and would you want one of these? Yeah. You can come over and over. She's over super serious. He's gotta glasses onto that temperature wise. How much go debate or try temperature or did, you know right away? What is going to be? I wanted. I want some color on these. And I knew we needed to get that edge to set. So that they don't spread too much so three seventy five is a sweet spot for getting a little bit of color around that outer edge getting it to set. So that you do then get a little bit of like vertical rise as well as the lateral spread. How many minutes I'm averaging nine to ten and you just kinda eyeball in terms of like as starting to get Brown to Brown edges. You'll see Brown around the edges just firm around the edges touch of color across the top. And the only, you know over baking them, it's not going to be a bad cookie. It just means you're gonna lose some of the chew and you're going to develop a lot more crispiness middle rack lower wreck. If you've got to baking sheets in there divide them between the upper third and lower third of the oven. And rotate if you're getting. Like massively uneven color, otherwise, just leave him alone. Chris morocco. We can find your as best chocolate chip recipe on bumpy dot com. Now, you can DM Chris share your cookie photos with him on Instagram Morocco. Chris. All right. Thanks, chris. Thanks. Mm. All right now, it's like a quick break to hear from our sponsor long day at work tufted school still stuck at the office. Treat yourself to the meal, you deserve on demand from your favorite restaurant restaurants, come to you with door. Nash Jordache connects you to all of your favorite restaurants in your city. Ordering is easy. Just use the door dash app in twos. What you want to eat in your dasher will bring it right to you wherever you are not only at burger place, you love on door dash already, but over three hundred and ten thousand other amazing restaurants are two door dash connects you with door to door delivery in over three thousand three hundred cities in all fifty states and Canada or in your local Goto or twos from your favorite chains. Like, Chipotle japodlay, Wendy's chick fillet and the cheesecake factory, don't worry about dinner. 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There's a plot twist which is that I do not like Jeremy sue I do think that it is a good dessert. So basically, your job just got harder a lot harder because I think your goal needs to be that by the end of this segment. You're going to convince me that it is a good dessert. We'll have to try right? Necessary, right. Right. Claire it just so happens back stage? I have a tier that I made just for you. A whole one. I didn't want to walk out with like a creepy paper bag, so. It is slumping a little bit because I didn't make it with enough time to let it set fully. But that's fine. We're not raising on starting with the handicapped. Thank you. Okay. What I wanna do is tell you everything I don't like about termi sue. So can you walk me through what the issue is exactly? So first and foremost, and this isn't always a bad thing. It's mushy. I have a problem with the combination of cold and mushy with the lady fingers. It's just kind of. I would call that crispy gone soggy, which is something that occasionally look for recipe, but it's the same texture to me sort of unappealing. There's no there's no crunch. There's no firmness. Enter actually distinct layers which you'll see. The tech textures, first and foremost, my other problem to other problems one is often uncooked alcohol in it and I'd like alcoholism. But I wanted to be cooked. I don't love like sensing an alcohol burn in a desert Touche, but only put a tablespoon. Okay. We're gonna talk about all the different opponents. We'll get into it. Third is like the cocoa on top bidder. Chaki and I like chocolate flavor, but it's not like mixed in you love chocolate, maybe not tempered, but you know. Touche pow. Okay. So all of that. I'm going to give your version of chance. Okay. We're gonna try together. See I coulda used maybe a few more hours. Just so I could mold it and have it actually like hold together. Okay. In fairness like right there. Right there on her card. It just says talk about why I don't like it. So I feel like I was set up. You were definitely set up. I have to say. Light. It's pleasantly spongy. It's got like a lovely cream Eunice to it. I feel like the cocoa and just like the touch of rum kind of work to kind of offset the sweetness a little bit. It's like I should love it because there's Skar pawn. There's a spread. So there's cocoa powder. There's lady fingers what Our Lady fingers, we're gonna talk about that. But somehow it feels like it doesn't quite add up some of its parts. But I will say that flavor wise. I guess it's mostly a texture thing. Flavor wise, this is very delicious and very balanced. All right. Well, thanks Clark on flavor. Okay. All right. Okay. But I guess before we dive into each component. I want to back up slightly because they think unlike a lot of the dishes, we think of as being really classic red sauce. Staples, like spaghetti meatballs, termi, sue truly. Does does come from Italy? At my research told me a small small north eastern town of trivia. So I do a little research. Do you do you know what Terry assume means pick me up pick me up? Yeah. Story just Google it about how that works. But I know that there's a part of your family, that's talion. So I just want to just I kind of backup and see like, do you have a personal connection to this? Because I think one of the reasons I don't love it is like I didn't grow up eating termi. Sue, the funny thing is I I really didn't either. We were kind of cannoli household might cannoli. We're just like that was like the pinnacle, you know. So we'd go to the north end in Boston. And we'd go to Mike's pastry. And then once we knew better we'd go to modern pastry. It was it was always hilarious trying to get the grumpy teenager behind the counter to like fill the cannoli fresh for us. It was like that was like that was the play like you gotta get the only fresh filled, but nobody wants to give you the can only fresh filled. So it just didn't leave you a whole lot of options. Do you had all the little chocolate chips on the end the chocolate chips? The weird green pistachios. You know and your dad was like outside revving the engine like. What the hell is this kid? You know? Yeah, there's nowhere to park. But yet I didn't. It was restaurant food to me. And there's a place up the road from where we lived call the Cantina Brucie where. On the menu. I never really ordered it as a kid because to your point, you know, there's a lot of really aggressive flavors like raw cocoa powder. You know, a little bit alcohol lot of Espresso. Not a great idea for a young kid. You know and on the menu on their dessert menu. They had this chocolate mousse in this edible chocolate Cup. Which was just like the last word, you know, in decadence, at least in my nine year old mind. So this is something that I've really only have her had in. In restaurants. And so it was like it was honestly a little bit daunting to develop one because you don't have the same frame of reference having had it like countless times or having made a zillion times. Like a lot of the recipes. We make actually come from things that we do. Right. And there doesn't seem to be one. There's not like one authentic recipe that's out there. So it seems like every cook makes it a different way every restaurant makes different way. So when you were thinking about all, the ingredients and components, how did you kind of decide, you know, like, I walk us through what the components are kind of what choices you had to make right? Okay. So these are the components, and this is where like TIMMY sue is a little bit quirky. Right. So the base of it is kind of these biscuits. He's lady finger cookies, which are really weird Super Dry. They have no fat in them. They're sweet, but incredibly crumbly, I don't know when you eat a lady finger, not interior. Sue, you probably wouldn't want to. I guess they're in like Charlotte's, which is a desert around the edges, but I know there's many different kinds. So you had to find like an Italian. What what are they called already? Yeah. So those are the very try one's really dry ones. Yeah. So it's those which are like it's like a from like a separated foam sponge if you want to get technical. But you have that which you then soak in sweetened Espresso coffee. Sometimes a little bit of Manila. And then the other component than is the cream. And there's a lot of a lot of different ways to go about making that. So you have mascarpone which seems to be like director for particularly sue mascarpone is sort of like, it's like cream cheese. However, it's like Italian cream cheese. So it actually has a lot of fatten it. Whereas like American cream cheese has a lot of stabilisers. Which is not to hate on Philadelphia. No, I certain applications. It's fine. The only thing sometimes. But then you have this usually some people use meringue actually like kind of like the base for like making this kind of light and kind of creamy filling. But. What I really kind of leaned in on was sort of like this like egg. I don't know what technically what is like an egg foam. Right. So it's like you're you're beating egg yolks sugar and some kind of liquid. You don't have to over like a hot water bath. But it's a nice way to do it in a way that you can thereby cooks, your eggs and people have a lot of issues with raw egg. But then it's this question of okay. How do you? How do you bring these things together, you know? So usually will have some amount of Bip cream the mask or pawn. And then you have like you're you're foamy egg business, and it's just a matter of how you put those things together. Right. So talk about some of your decisions. So it's an EMS you see like Marsala or like a cognac or some other alcohol, but what's in Europe speeds rum, right? I put just a touch of rum. I mean in this whole thing, there's one tablespoon of rum, obviously, not a lot. But my feeling about Marsala is like a like what exactly is it? And who the hell has it? Like most people have some kind of Brown liquor in the back of the cabinet. How many kinds of Marsala do you have in your liquor cabinet Clare one you even have one it's just Marsala? There's just one Marsala is the brand. So you basically have three main components, and what I like about the recipe, it's nice from cooks point of view because it's kind of like a semblance only. Turn your oven. You're not yet not baking pastry component. So have your lady fingers, which you recommend just purchasing. Right. Don't do not make them feel be miserable. I have made lady before it's not that fun socks. All you're doing is striving to then. But right like within so your lady fingers, and then you have your Espresso, which is the soaking liquid for the lady fingers, then you have this like creamy mixture that you're using to layer in between. So you were saying like this is your egg foam beaten over hot water bath is that typically up. Well, there's two one the French from Asuncion. Which comes I think from the rich talion, which you might want to correct. My translation is SABA Yona. Is that right? I just call. It saw by on of just like draw some of the battle sounds. But like, honestly, it's one of those things it's like, it's a little bit fussy. But it's a beautiful thing in and of itself. I mean, if there's one thing about this whole process that's a little bit intimidating. It's probably making the I owned because. Again, not that you have to do to overhaul water bath. It's just nice, you know, sort of like the factory cooks, your eggs, you can hold this for many days. But yeah, you're kind of like you have to have a hand mixer powered, you know, you're not doing this by hand. You know, you're if you're really if you're like Missy time horn, downton abbey and had the strength. Yeah. But you know, you really want on electric mixer like ideally for this. And then just joke sugar, and I honestly used water for that component of it. I worked the rub into the soak for the lady fingers just felt a little bit cleaner and easier, but so the yolks kind of triple or even quadruple in volume they get like really creamy, and they get to the point where you can sort of drizzle. The mixture over itself, and it holds ribbon that my favorite. That's my favorite language. All recipe. Writing is holding this little ribbon slowly dissolving ribbon. Sorry krizner just being forgot everyone. Here. We're the recipe. So so the coffee mixture does it have to be Italian coffee. You're I consider Chris, Chris, you're probably the form better. If it's not really to be honest. I was you're the former coffee store that I know. So I trust whatever coffee sank you. I think. Well, every day went to work in the kitchen. It'd be like if Chris did may coffee that miss not drinking off that. You just show up. Uncapping and just be like obsolete like lather about whatever. And just like Clair slowdown drink a Cup. It's gonna be fine. What do you do? If you need a Cup of coffee to make coffee in the morning. Yes, that's the paradox. That was always the problem. Get it together. So it doesn't have to be Italian coffee. You don't need to get your little mocha strong. The really, really helpful. I mean, some people do one hundred percents Bresso. I mean, that's like definitely gives us a little bit of kick. You know, definitely not to be fed to the under twelve. Right or the over seventies. Or the thirty two. I can't handle that. Right. So so people that scene like are from the test kitchen videos know, that in the test kitchen part of the process, we like exhaustively test and taste recipes before they get printed. So can you talk about the earlier iterations of the termi sue, and what did you change what wasn't working? You know, this was this was not one of those epic struggles like honestly like making breakfast cookie without like refined sugar. You know, like that wasn't epic struggle even just like making donuts the other week, you know, like even that like I common got bogged down trying to get them. Like, exactly right, but different recipes have very different approaches when often the development process will look at. Okay. Well, you know, what is out there? What other people do what we're there kind of key moments. And how did they decide how they want to chart a path forward and the meringue path just seemed weird to me. I think like that yoki kind of quality to the cream here is like really really really important. That kind of savory balance and for that a little bit of that richness. So I knew I wanted that. I'd knew I didn't want Marsala or Sherry, you know, or something like Essa Tarik that I certainly don't have at home. And then it was really just a question of like, how do you soak frigging dries hell lady fingers in enough coffee? So that they're like totally rehydrated but without falling apart. So was your technique for that just push it right to the edge. And hope it don't doesn't follow her. So and then you have to assemble everything you get it all and you chose a loaf pan. You can serve right from the loaf pan. And I probably should have tried to do that tonight. But I I got greedy. I wanted to be able to like just like show the layers and stuff like went for presentation and just FYI like as an aside like normally wouldn't use a square play. But I have a feeling that took took a one way trip. Here is not going to be going back. Kitchen help you. One of the great things about TIMMY, sue is that it is because it is kind of assembly only like you get everything together. It doesn't take that long. You can make like an enormous amount of it. If you have enough lady fingers for like seventy five people like just not clearing. All right. I just don't get any. I'll probably still here just wanna say this that like it's a desert that I don't prefer. I don't think it's a great desert. I will still eat an entire portion of me sue in front say. That does not stop me. I'm just like this isn't as good as it could be. And I think part of the reason is because often like there's there's some pretty terrible restaurant. It's pretty it's kind of like a cooks desert. There isn't this like a pastry component that involves a lot of techniques. So I'll just say that. So for people that are making this at home. So if you want to make it at home, what are ways that they can riff I've seen like other versions that use swap out, maybe nocco hall, or they they don't use cough lemon flavored version, so any ideas for riffing. I mean for me, you know, I think all the components are key. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah. You could swap out like some of the elements a little bit here. And there for me like again, like the real Hawes like the SABA like if you go to via Kuroda, you know, like Zaba own on top like fresh, berries is desert on the menu. And it's obsolete. Like magic, you know. It's it's like gives you all the thing that like custard pudding does is like if you really light. So that would be my play just like do that, you know. Anything missing from the recipe. I don't know. I don't think. So I just can't believe you don't like it more. It's just it's the cold and the wet. It's just not I can't behind it. I just feel like it's just like perfect Maga of all these different things like manage to stay, balanced, and are kind of throwback, but deservedly so and I just the fact that you feel to be termed by it is going to stay with me. I don't think. So. So is that is that the final word on getting me to like this desert? I think that was it. I don't have anything else in the back. If that's what you mean. All right. All right. I do think this is an excellent version that is that does feel it is hard. I'm trying to think of other food Chris. And I probably agree on ninety five percent. Maybe more maybe ninety eight percent. But that five percent like we're not afraid to dig in. Exactly, it'd be like a knockdown drag out kind of battle. Yeah. Which is what Adam lakes, totally. In case, you didn't notice. Other will we learn about another potentials food feud back in the back room there? I was eating tried mango. That's not a good food show. Not for me freshman, go all the way, but tried mango now. Right. And then peanut butter. That's another one peanut butter. Peanut butter bananas. I'm on the peanut butter lover f- just to see you guys know, Chris, I know Adam feels me about the bananas. It's fine. I worked for him for you guys. So I guess stay tuned for future podcasts about. Oh. Yeah, I'm sure we can find loads more. We could just do tempered chocolate podcast too. That one out. All right. So you can find this recipe in the, but he's may issue which is out now and online if you search old school termi too. So. Thanksgiving. I'll be making it. But thank you. Chris. The bone apetite food cast is produced by Kerry fullest, and Christina and produced an edited by Emma would. Our theme music is Kanye words. We have new episodes everyone's day. And if you wanna tell us about this or any other Assode Email us at bone apetite food cast at g mail dot com. Thanks for listening.

Chris Clare savage Instagram Brown Emma Chris Morocco Marsala TIMMY sue Morocco Manila Kurt Europe Dory New York Times Domingo Maxine Rappaport Helge food editor New York Kris
Falling In Love With Morocco w/ Lucas Peters

Extra Pack of Peanuts Travel Podcast

1:23:02 hr | 1 year ago

Falling In Love With Morocco w/ Lucas Peters

"The other thing. I I like to do if I have a friend who likes to go out to bars and stuff shocks my wife. Yeah. Doesn't drink. So I only ever get to go out to parse when I'm trying to get after it go visit Lucas, he'll take you off. As long as you want or go. Oval his de extra Pekka peanuts travel podcast episode three fifty four in seventeen eighty six Morocco became the first country to sign a treaty with the newly formed United States. And that's why to this day US citizens do not need to be set to visit Morocco. If you've listened this show before then you're probably aware that one of Heather's top destinations to visit is Barack oh, and you better believe that every single time her phone dings, and she gets a gentle notification that cheap flight Tamako. She makes sure that I am aware that there are very very good flight to Morocco. And one of these days, we are going to book one of those flights to Morocco. I promise I promise I promise I promise. So if you are out there, and you're saying, hey, I want to go to Morocco you want to go anywhere in the world. Basically, you just wanna find really cheap flight. Let's think to Europe for under four hundred dollars to Australia front or seven hundred dollars to Asia for under five hundred dollars. These are types of deals that we post every single day on our Joe apps. All you have to do. It's totally free to download go to any apps store that you have download Jetta OJT. Oh, sign up for the free account. And when you sign up make sure that in the referral, code bucks. You put e pop if you put an e pop we'll give you a free fourteen day. Trial for platinum version, so go check it out. Download the app now if you want the cheapest fights directly phone, you don't even have to do anything, you can be a travel superstar without having to put any workout. Go get the Jetta app and you'll start booking cheap flights in no time. View. Hello travel nerds. And welcome to the extra pack of peanut travel podcast the show that teaches you how to travel more while spending less. I'm your host Travis Sherry and joining me today someone who's an award-winning writer and photographer who has lived abroad in a village on a mountain and then move to one of the world's most cosmopolitan cities. And there's pushing me in a good way to take to Morocco probably more than anyone else on the planet. And it was literally written the book on that wonderful country. Lukas Peters of Luca speier's dot com and author of moon travel guides Morocco. Lucas thanks for joining me. Welcome in Travis. Thanks for having me on man. But I can tell you. I was I was kinda hoping I'd be talking to her the whole time. Yeah. I make sure that didn't happen. Because then we'd be on the next flight to Morocco, or maybe maybe I should have had that happen, right? She'd be like I just talked to Lucas in our flight your book, we're going in three days. I guess that would have been a good problem to have. Yeah. We're gonna dive into a lot of stuff we could talk about your travel. How it's changed to having a two year old. Until what it's like to be an ex Pat in the last ten years. And of course, we're going to hammer down on the country you love, and you know, so well, Morocco. But first, let's figure out where it all came from like this this travel bug. That's led you to now be an ex Pat to live abroad for a big chunk of your life at this point where did this desire? I come from. Aside grew up in a small town called Tekla Washington. And it's just like ten minutes out the Seattle's right next to sea TAC airport almost nobody knows his town. You should know this town, our high school is incredibly small, but one of the things we had was very international community, in fact, high school. I went to his now future usually ever here in the New York Times is being the most diverse in high school in the nation out where there is out of graduating class of about one hundred kids, there's something like twenty six different languages spoken at home. So this this, you know, like as graduate high school, you know, like, this is what this like my school system transformed into his is really multicultural place. And I think that's kind of words sparked, you know, this idea of never left the US or anything, I didn't talk got into college. But it's one of those things you have this idea in the back of your head like, oh, there's other places of the languages of the kind of styles. Living his life, his belief, even and so yeah. Just kind of Pete the curiosity. I think and then sometime in college I worked out a way to get a semester abroad in London, and I was absolutely miserable. The whole time. I mean this miserable. But the thing I loved about London was I didn't love London at all. I still to this date. Probably my least favorite western European city. I like pockets of it. But it's it's kind of like LA like that. You know, it's hard to like the whole city. And it's it's I don't know. It's never been an easy place for me. But I the thing is like myself in London I wake myself somewhere else, and there that kind of bit. I think maybe what happens when nearly twenty years old and traveling overseas in a strange culture where you do a lot of this pensive self-reflection in stuff. But I like we're put me like that was kind of in a. Come more nervous spot every day trying to figure stuff out every day. You know, a little bit more. So. Yeah, that that started it. So from that was two thousand one in since then it's been, you know, you know, I was in Paris for few months in Prague for a few months trying to find a way to like do the ex Pat thing not quite sure how to go by the Diese process, and it wasn't until two dozen nine where was smart enough at the age of thirty degree less that you know, what helps to the process? A lot is real job. So that's kind of where it started. Nice. So then okay. I let's let's figure out why were you miserable in London. I do love that. You started the show with a place that was underwhelming to you. Because I like to ask people that question because I think it it's nice to fold one it allows people to see that not everyone's perfect for everyone. Right. Like if they go on a trip, and they don't love it as much as they thought they didn't love part of it as much they thought there. Every it's okay. Right. Like, I've been to places that everyone said I was going to love, and I just thought they were. Okay. That's fine. Yeah. I like that. And I also like then that it it kind of puts in perspective. Then when you do love a place, you know, what it feels like you're not like, I just love it because I'm not at home. No you've been to a place that was abroad that you didn't really like so. Okay. I love that. You did that let's talk about though miserable in London. Why miserable in London because I have my I have my hypothesis hypotheses here of having been to London few times. But why didn't you particularly enjoy it hindsight app? Four big reasons. Number one, it was the rainiest spring that had one hundred years. So that's saying something for saying something, in fact that Nick Hornby if anybody knows they corn hero. He wrote a book, I think it's come falling down that dealt with this like rainiest spring on record in two thousand one. And I was like yes apps. I read that years later. I was like yes, it was that miserable. It was just waterfalls coming down the tube. You know, like you're trying to walk into the metro the subway station, you know, and it's the tube in London and the stairs would literally be like little waterfalls. You know that you have to trudge up like a salmon, swimming upstream. You know does awful. So and I grew up in Seattle, man. Like, I mean, I'm no rain. Yeah. You rate this is like a horrible. This is like red numbers even before. Like, I didn't see the sun for four months. Like, it was just heartbreaking the exchange rate killed me. I was young. I was stupid. I just was five for beer was five for a beer. I didn't realize five pounds was almost ten dollars or something at the time. So my Bank account took a big hit. So that subs food awful like awful like it wasn't three months discovered. Like the Indian food is actually something good. I think Heather action mentioned this on episode. I heard not long ago. And I was like, yeah. That's that was the savior for me. Because otherwise like British rate is I hear they're trying to do something else. But man is hits not great. I'd four things. And what was I almost think could leave it there. I think that I mean there though as far as I'm concerned that essentially encapsulates most of my London experiences sports one fourth one. I love a walking city. Like, I love walking around the City London's autographed walking city, there's neighborhoods that are wonderful to walk around. And I lived up in Tufnell park like kind of north London little north of Camden town of people know where that's at and the walk is not fun. You know what I mean like walking from one neighborhood to another? You're on these lonely stretches of busy road with just like crappy shops around you nothing really to look at, you know, at it's nothing like Paris would live now, which is like the quintessential walking city, you know, every street corner. Your turnaround, though, that's pretty been here. Three years. I still do that. Nice. Nice. Well, okay. That encapsulates my most of my London experiences. But I will say what I've been there with the someone's out. I did I understood why other people loved it. So. Much. So yeah, I'm with you. Okay. So we share a common bond there with London being this tough it for a lot of reasons. But then you mentioned so all right two thousand one you wanted to be an expert. You couldn't really figured out two thousand nine year able to finally become an expert what redoing in the interim. They're like, we're you trying to set your life up for for travel or had you given up on it a little bit and thought, okay, no just going to be normal like I'll travel when I can on vacation type thing. At the time. I was working lot usually hold down like two or three jobs. And I usually it was like some combination of bartending waiting tables, maybe doing some editing or library type workers on that. And usually hold onto or three jobs. Basically, not have a vacation for about ten months quit, all my jobs in all the money saved up. I'd take traveling of his kind of recycled do it again. So did that for a few years? And then along the way I thought, hey, I should like do something else alive. So went to grad school got a master's in English literature got a little teaching experience. And then I ended up editing in San Francisco. So, you know, San Francisco's another great city expense wise, not the best, but a great city living, and then yet in two thousand nine it just I had I had that little bit teaching experience. And I thought hey, you know, why not get out of the office job in do this? You know, just do this. And I looked around the US tonight solid. Upstate New York. You know, I got a job offer Watertown in upstate New York right off Lake Erie a wind up there in June. There was still snow on the ground. And I said no can't do this. And sort of looking overseas in had a couple of job offers for Korea Morocco in the Czech Republic. Already been to the Czech Republic. Never been agree. Never been Rocco. Have you decide the food comes back to the food, man? I love Moroccan food. Delicious didn't like the food and the Czech Republic. Too much created alike, but not every day. That that was the deciding factor lead on said, he doesn't minutes a job offer for Morocco. Dad, haven't lived back in the US sense. I is he decision. Oh, man. A man after my own heart. Who is just like these are both cool who am I going place with best food? So you moved to Morocco. And you you taught in Morocco then for a while and lived in a in a village, right? Like a small village in resin. Yes. So there's a there's about an hour outside. It says you're up on top of the mountain. Right. So you get four seasons. Do you actually do get a little snow in the wintertime, some I actually packed my snowboarder and everything? Got to use it a couple times mazing Lee enough kind of cool. So. Yeah. Been fron Morocco. It's a they have a like a Merican style university. They're called Allah win can maybe write it down in the podcast notes or something like that. But so the university there, it's a it's any fun. It's a small university about five hundred maybe students, I think in the town itself has maybe another three thousand or so I'm so it's you know, it's pretty small there's one like kind of central market. I think the whole town is maybe two miles across to half miles across you know. So entrepreneurs into the other see everybody high. That's kind of living there. And did that for six years, you know, which is about five years more than I thought I was going to. Okay. So interesting. Yeah. That was my thought is what what did you go intending to do which sounds like a year? And then what made you stay in the small town in Morocco for six years the yes, so originally I thought I'd use it as a stepping-stone for teaching. So I'd kind of teach year here year their income at work my way around the world doing that. That was my idea going into it. But going back to that that idea of liking myself in London liking the challenge of this environment. I really liked that in Morocco in are really like the challenge of on the weekend. Trying to go to the weekend market to get my vegetables, you know, that for me was a blast like every week in new coq what's gonna happen this week in, you know, something done just getting around. It was always it's always a little chaotic. It's always a little, you know, like a little difficult. For me in a good way. I like places that are a little bit difficult. I think in some ways some of that could be language some of it's just Hannah STA living. It's not something. You're accustomed to. I talked to good friend of mine. Who's been in Morocco? He's born and raised in New York in Morocco since the seventies not young. Not as longtime, and he goes back and forth. You know, he's up in Europe a lot goes back to the US. But one thing he he said to me stuck off said a he finds the US just too sterile. Like, everything's just so clean. I jam with that, you know, I did that entirely. I'm like, yes. It is a little to Cleveland for like that issue. You know, what's interesting to me when you say that like, I wasn't even thinking cleanliness as much as I like when when you're in south East Asia in Thailand areas like this. We just can do what you want, and that's not to say in a bad way. But you know, like, you're on a street, and there's not really like lanes on the street. Everyone kind of follows their own little air. But then when I'm in the US, obviously, you driving down the street, you're driving in your lane. And you're in like he'd just take a motorbike zoom around people's zoom around you it works. And I missed that sometime. This idea that I'm just I'm just going to do what I need to do or what I wanna do within certain nor moral norms. But I'm not being like everything is in so cookie cutter. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. I got that the thing, you know, the driving to the same. You know, I tell people are driven in like southeast Asia driving Morocco BSN's, you know, it's a it's a. Save idea. Just like the lane is more of a guidance in a rule. Yeah. What then brought you. Okay. So you're Morocco for six years. Then you move from this four thousand person Moroccan town to Paris, which obviously so we'll talk about the shock or if you experience cold shock. But what what was it that brought you to Paris then? That's my wife. She had. So at the university wasn't bit of a decision for us because of the university. I was tenured in a way, you know, the closest thing to have. But I have a guaranteed job for life there. I'm teaching English literature and composition as far as teaching goes. I'm doing about the best I'm ever gonna do. Good salary. And all that stuff to four months vacation can argue with that. Even even someone who loves travel as a hard time arguing with that. You're like. Good. And then. Yeah. So my wife owed Morocco enforce some wife is from tanger-. So she's from Rocco in Morocco is can still be very tough on women, particularly like in the work environment in still kind of a patriarchal culture ally. Say a lot of times, it's how I imagined. Maybe the US was in the nineteen fifties. You know, where you have women in the workforce, but they're always gonna help down on lower positions, despite kind of whatever other brilliant, they bring or lick my waist case. Like bagful of degrees in four languages in Nina, ridiculous, smarts, select told her I was like, you know, this place isn't great for you. Just do your own thing. You know? So she was doing her had her own consulting going and stuff like that now. But she ended up getting a job with UNESCO. Gonna jump offer freeness go in their headquarters is right here in Paris than it was just kind of a good enough kind of package were. All right. You have to. Let's you know, we'll we'll pull up stakes will have. Get beverly. Sees y'all let goes up there. And you know, we both into pairs before and into place that honestly it's easy to live in. You know, what I mean, the as frustrated right now as I am with the French bureaucracy, which to whole 'nother thing I can be. Yeah. Your day to day living is very easy or is it. Okay. So that's interesting to me that I would assume the other way like I would assume that life wouldn't like day to day life wouldn't be so easy. Now, I'm thinking mostly from a cost perspective. So maybe that maybe that's where my mindset comes in. But I yeah, I explained to me because that's it's fascinating. Like what what do you find very easy about living in Paris? So at a small village, Morocco, you have ver-. Don't get like, you know, you can't dial up Indian or Korean or even finding the inner Oregon food. You know, like some accident thing. Amazon doesn't exist. You know, like me like I mean, like so of the things that like, honestly like you like, I even like took for an probably do again, just take for granted this, you know, take for granted that you know, these things I can find this can get this. I can go to the bookstore and get the book Anita could go to the grocery store and find you know, whatever ingredients said I need to make this dish tonight. You know, that did not happen in Morocco. You know, like day-to-day kinda comforts. A lot of them are stripped out, you know, that we're just gonna take him for granted. Now. So, you know, to take the hour long drive to fez, usually it meant that. I was calling three or four local taxi drivers to see if anybody had a spot could I'm pretty pleased. I get a ride could meet me there. And that what our driver sometimes they'd me half a day. You know, said find a car in navigate that. You know, you know, your quick stop dead at the grocery store, you know. That's that's my. Saturday. You know, this entire Saturday. That's that's not like thirty minutes in and out of Safeway or something. Like that like, you know, grab a bag in when be walking around to the different vendors to get all the specific bits. I need to do stuff. And then to take it home amid a higher. The guy pulls the cart that takes like thirty minutes to like get back home just by itself. So I mean, it's a lot of this kind of stuff, you know, where you know, I walk outside your, I'm, you know, typically Parisian there's five awesome bakeries within two minutes of might front door on. This is a great. You know, there's hospitals right here. You know important, you know, for kids in stuff, great daycare and stuff not to say like Ronca doesn't have some of these things. But in a smaller town like they like it is almost anywhere else. It's kinda hard to find. But you couple that with can't wear stuff on Amazon, or if you do maybe a month, you'll get it. I guess it is it's all relative. Yes. You coming from a small town in Morocco. I get it. I can see why like yeah. Para parishes easier or on any any city of size would have been much easier as your thank. Yeah. Expenses earth thing. You know what? I mean, the your friend like, I literally months I lived on us in two hundred bucks a month. You know, what I mean and lived well like I had a main who came in who is very Wath as she was great. She's trying. Would cook me dinner with clean my apartment? She costs five dollars. You know? I mean, that's the local economy. So yeah, I'd say most at random average Munster as funding to three hundred dollars maybe for living hall, which not the same Paris. I have not the same. I was going to say what what has been that the most drastic different moving from the village to TI. I one of the world's busiest most cosmopolitan most expensive cities would have what were the what was the adjustment. Like because six years a long time to live in a village, Morocco, not say you didn't travel and get out of that. But that's your life for that to be your day to day life. So so kind of a funny thing like just, you know, we we moved here we have an internet set up. You know, we we're getting furniture will put an apartment together. You know, we're going out finding local restaurants and stuff, but you know, for the most part were still cooking on because that's what we're you said doing, but we're both my wife, and I were both working a lot at the time. And we had this. Kind of period. We're just cooking every night was slog or just like, you know, working to I'm trying to think of the quickest dinners I can make. I'm just like, man. I wish we could just call an order pizza. Literally we've been here. Seven months. That was Brian Perez question could we could call it order pizza. Order type order burger order tacos. Or whatever you. I was added. We not think about this. So we went through a period where he must have ordered out five news. Isley by mills Luik, that's which you which for the first seven months. You just it was so ingrained in you that you were cooking at home. You didn't even give it thought didn't even think about it. And then it's one of those how much has stupid. How right and then it's the slippery slope of like am I ever going to cook? Again, because I have literally thousands of restaurants in Paris that could deliver to me. Why would I ever need to cook? And then I guess you look at your Bank account you like that's why I need to. But. Yeah. That's happened. You know, like we dug ourselves Dojo will play Brian. How did this happen? 'cause yeah, we have like any sort of budgeting at all for that. So. Yes. Yeah. That was I mean, honestly like other than that the m the adjustment to Peres. I think almost anybody else like small town big town. But I think we both lived in big cities before it wasn't that shocking. You know, it's not like country bumpkins coming in MC hadn't seen a skyscraper before or something. Like that. You know? So yes, I think president was it was really it was it was easier than it was hard in. Yeah. Exciting. You know, who doesn't wanna live the Paris? You know, the deal with us was, you know, with UNESCO her, you know, her job men had to give up my job. So that means I have to create a kind of a new job. Luckily, I had the book deal for the travel book for moon for them Rocco book, and that was just at the time just gonna come out like within that next year. So I had this year whereas like working on the book in putting the photos together. Can do in the final pieces for that. I to be like just a fulltime writer in Paris. Which is I is that not the dream for almost any person who loves writing or literature, ever, right? Yeah. That's also what are speaking of parents who didn't get to Moroccan or second. But in Paris, what are some of your favorite things to do like as a local or someone who lives there that tourist would enjoy? But probably would never even know because I mean, there's so much do as a tourist and purse what about the under like underneath stuffed a little hidden stuff that you're like, oh, man. If you come the Paris like you've gotta do this. Whether it be a place or a thing, you know, what what is that? Honestly, that's that's always a tough question because I feel like everything is done terrorist. Like, I don't think there's anything like undiscovered pairs anymore. I mean, there's the big stuff that everybody. Does course. But usually like if people coming in like, I just had some friends but a month ago, and it's usually like I'll take him to my favorite local restaurant if local park if it's nice out so give a little shout the grand pan over the fifteenth. Awesome food only locals go there because there's nothing like we're living Ronco or harlot. Embarrassed is like little pocket of. Wonderful neighborhood. There's there's nothing like Persic value at all. I mean, there's no baffled tower is like on the other end of the, you know, these mall, the I mean, we don't have any super big parks that everyone's going to. So it's all pretty neighborhoody. And so yeah. So the the grandparent I love taking people there. Great restaurants, do very very specific kind of cuts of meat and fish. So isn't that maybe not the best -tarian begins? But for for mediators man, some of the most glorious like little bits and pieces. He can he can ever find in the chef that have there is just very specific with what he asked for from his butcher. It's incredible. How that shows up on your dish? So you like Raith fish when you're eating early the wings. The Ray fish and stuff and the presentation of it all inside. It's it's awesome. It's like, you know, neighborhood budgeting price, you know. It's like twenty five thirty euros may be dinner with wine in everything you're made you looking at like eighty two hundred for a couple which isn't that bad. Honestly for Paris. Jan all right. It's bad for Paris. Yeah. Yeah. So for like a mess net. At I liked that one. A lot of the Jewish percents park is like one it's it's her neighborhood parka and we have a couple of year, but that's my favorite one because it has all all the great things that people like in a Parisian park. You can lounge out in the sun. But sunny out there is for the kids. They're still does little puppet theaters. You know, the marionette theatres they one of those on the weekends. There's a covered second hand book market. That's been going on for like over one hundred years now. So there's just like little little pieces that put this park together that make it really nice. And again, Mike notorious goes, hey, you know, it's all the goes because there's no Lou right next door. There's no music. I'll say now there's none of this stuff. You know, it's out of the center a little bit. So so that's my little corner. You know, I'm down here in this little quantitive teams, the other thing I like to do if I have a friend who likes to go out to bars and stuff my wife doesn't drink. So I only ever get to go out to parse when it comes to town shows only get after it go visit Lucas, he'll take you on as long as you lie or go. But there's these at nice series of like Prohibition-era bars that pop. Up around Paris at a really fun. You know, like, a it's like, you're going into laundromat. But you gotta know the door to go back. There's a kind of a cool barbeque. There is a pizza joint to you. Gotta like kinda crawl through some beer canisters before they get into like back kind of Frank Sinatra era looking bar the backup. So these things are pretty cool. Like, I I like these kind of bars to like one of going out for night. Also. All right, cool. So you've got some stuff in Paris. And I just did a podcast with a guy named Ali g who's and that's going to be coming out. And he he's an ex Pat living in Paris as well. So should connect you guys. He's an Australian, and yeah, he keeps he he's serving as like what you're doing for me from Morocco, basically, saying dude, you gotta get here. I'll show you everything to do. He's doing that for Paris. So there we go, and he taught me a really cool French word, which is probably only French word. I know fled newer, which is like someone who just loves destroy, which I love to do that's kind of my thing. So I now I even have a title in French. I'm just. Just a flatter. So I know. I mean, that's how that's quintessentially Parisian. You know, the other one is the Voyager. Yeah. Voyeur? You know what? I mean. That's that's another one. And that's what we do in Paris. We walk a lot. And then we always looking at that parts that are open to see how people who live there. Nice. We did it love it. Love it a Flynn. And. Yeah. All right. I I guess I'm basically Parisian at this point. It shifting to Morocco. I thing I give us like an elevator pitch on why it should be at the top of every travelers lists. Like, you know for people who don't know. I've never experienced never been. 'cause I would argue that I know a bit about Morocco because I've read through your guidebook, and you know, how there's wanted to go there I to go, but I still don't know a ton. What is it about Morocco? Like, why should we all wanna go? There elevator pitch. Whereas other destinations are largely you go somewhere. You see something you snap a selfie posted on Instagram. And that's that's the vacation, right? Moroccan doesn't have that. Rocco? All experiences. You know, you're gonna you're going to experience music that you never hear anywhere else. You're gonna experience food never would taste anywhere else. You're gonna experience sights and smells that are just unavailable anywhere else in the world. I mean, they only exist there in this. It's like quaint little corner of like north west Africa, you know, and and at the same time, you're going to experience culture that most people haven't like, I'm assuming lives in listening to this podcast. You know, they haven't experienced before, you know, being in a Muslim country being inefficacy, you know, getting a taste of that. You know, a sensation of that. You know, that that's what I think is the strongest pull for a lot of people with Morocco is it's not something to wanna go there. You know, see this do this. It's really wanna go there and experience it, and that could be different for people for a lot of different price points. You know, I just got done with three of three week trip to Morocco. I did a one week is a budget traveler one week is a luxury travel that was the last week in one week is kind of a mid range traveler, you not this is the kind of how I put the guidebooks books together and stuff, but my budget travel limit myself to twenty dollars a day, including hotel and everything. A blast. You know? I mean, it's a thing he can do on a super budget if a little bit homework, and then of course, luxury is you know, sky's the limit. You know, I was limiting myself maximum two hundred day. But I mean, I, you know, no along the way to you could do five hundred six hundred whatever a day easily in you're gonna get every dollar out of that. You know, I'm in. It's just that kind of place that whatever your your budget ranges. You can have a great time to end in you, meet other travelers doing the same kind of thing, which I think is fantastic. And what that's yeah. It is fastening because you're a certain places in the world that you you can't hit all those ranges, right? Like Paris, you can do budget, but you would never be able to do twenty dollars a day. Right. Unless you're unless you're staying for free somewhere and eating someone else's food. Right. And then even still you'd spend twenty dollars just hopping on on the metro once and buying one bottle of wine, Nuno know, what winds pretty cheap. There you go. But you know, there's certain areas like that you can't do it. But I love that Morocco Serena's if someone was going like, aren't you listen to our podcast, which helps, you know, our travel style, you know, I'm a little more maybe not a little maybe much more frugal than how there. But if you're if someone's coming saying they wanted a a middle level experience. And I know you probably touch on this guidebook what what would a decent budget be for someone per day for for not super-luxury. But certainly not art. I got to watch every penny. Yeah. I'd say like my mom kind of rule of thumb is eighty one hundred dollars a day is a good mid-range budget. What I try to tell people to do is instead of doing for some reason. And this isn't just Rockford does his wherever I travel mid range is always somehow disappointing. You know what I mean? I brother either go super cheap, and like save the money to do something really really Lux. Or you know, I mean instead of spending like, you know, the seven days in a mid range players. Rather do like four nights like a real budget plays a hostile or patellar or something and then do three nights like a super lungs place. I'd I'd rather come as switch up like that. I'd rather be like street food for a couple of days in do like a nice dinner out. And you know, maybe a nice lunch picnic something like that. That's a good point. I you're right because I found that with a lot of destinations. I go to right. I think yeah. You're in less your unless you really know the best mid range. And that's where I think the mid range our hurts people. Sometimes too is you're just you're you're paying more because you think it's going to be better than the budget because of the price, but it isn't unless of course, you have like Lucas he was like all right. Well, if you are going mid range, here's like the best mid rate option that will basically be luxury or whatever or it'll be an awesome experience. But you're paying mid range. But I'm with you. That's a good. I just wanted to stop you. Because that's a really neat point that you make for travel anywhere in general. I think and I think it also for me, it's it goes with what you're willing to do to as a traveler like for myself and my wife, sue if it's us travelling we can rough it, no problem. You know, we don't mind, you know, sleeping bags and a, you know, bad blanket or something on as long as you. Don't get good, buddy. I mean, we can kinda rough it pretty well. And yeah. And then you had the injury you can find some really cool deals, but sometimes those are really tough to find, you know, and sometimes they just don't exist. So I find especially if it's a place, I don't know too. Well, or not I don't know. I don't feel like I've anything I could really trust go into it that I'd I'd almost rather mix it up and try to find like the best budget option in gopher a can. I'm more upscale thing that it can afford in after I saved that bit of money right in having average out to eighty. Yeah. Jack, the average average out said kind of mid range type thing, but to give you an idea of like how she really can make Morocco for you in this could be gopher anybody. If you do a little planning particularly for renting a car if you're planning on driving at all. So I just got done running car. In. It was ten day rental unlimited miles and the Bill came two hundred five dollars. Wow. Yeah. Ten dollars a day ten dollars a day. And you know, I drove that all the way down the Atlantic coast across the mountains out to the desert in back America. You know, I mean Seinfeld up five or six I'd spent more money on gas than it did on the car rental. You know, so so that's one way, you know, like super budget, travelers could if they wanted to move around could even think about sleeping in their car for a couple of nights that they really wanted to like cut out some costs, you know, good. That's legit way to do it. I think. Yeah. What would you say then for length of time to go? Because obviously, I mean, the more time the better because Morocco has so much stuff going on. And there's you know, it's so diverse that way, but what would be against someone like who doesn't have infant amounts of travel time. What would you say? Say, hey, you got to go for at least this amount of days, or this is maybe the sweet spot for for first time travel to Morocco. And we're coming from US say we're coming. Let's say we're coming from the US. So it's not a crazy journey to get there. Right. You're not going around the world. It's it's actually fairly easy of a flight. Yeah. What would be the minimum? And then what would be maybe the sweet spot. Minimum. You have to do is probably a week with with your weekend on either either. I think. That would be the direct flight. There's only a couple of direct flights into Morocco from North America. You have Dr pledge from New York Montreal I think are the only two cities AB direct plates. So if you're kind of already around Montreal or New York you comply right into Cuza blog gut and catch that I trained un-american. In you're talking. You know, you could it's it's overnight flight and everything like that. But he could you can make that work for a week. I think pretty pretty solid if you're coming from anywhere else other than kind of around Montreal or New York. It gets a little trickier. I actually usually recommend people book can their their trip to Morocco with a trip to Europe because cousin Blanca socks, it's I mean, it's a it's a there are bits of that charming. But it's like the London of Morocco semi is love it. I don't even have to ask you what not to do. You're already throwing out without me prompting which is perfect. I took CASA Blanca which sex peak, which does suck because such an awesome name like when you hear CASA Blanca I- I- acquainted to like when I hear Mandalay, and I went to Mandalay and me and more. I'm like this oxen like this name makes it sound fan fantastical like like like, I just have visions of what it's gonna look. Like, and then I get them like what this is Mandalay like come on, man. This doesn't live up to its name. No. I mean, there's a reason because of walkers always like those top five top ten but most disappointing destinations in the world. But another America for hour train ride away. There's reason why America should always in the top five as sedation in the world. You know, what I mean Americans doesn't disappoint. But yeah, if you're coming from anywhere else in the US, you know, you can you can do around trip. I usually two different flight. So I do like around triplets say you're coming from like Salt Lake City or whatever dues like Salt Lake City drag to Madrid direct to Paris have a night or two here in then you can catch a budget flight down into a different round trip where you're flying directly into says directly in America directly into tanger- directly even into wears his at all of which are way, cooler places in Gaza Blunkett fly into easier airports to navigate just nicer newer airports, as well super cool, like customs lines in everything where you kind of flying right through could be could be probably refusal cheaper to do that. And get. Or two in Madrid because fights to your we get deals all the time. And then as you said budget airlines between Europe, especially down Spain and that area down to Morocco. I've even I've looked cheap. So you probably spending less money all told than if you just book around trip US to to Morocco. Absolutely. And so, yeah, I mean, usually like I've found roundtrips less than one hundred bucks from Paris down to Fezzan defend America. But yeah, I mean, you're always finding deals even for the budget airlines on there. So looking at like, your round trip tickets, you know, depending on where you're coming from the US, you could be looking at you know, about a thousand dollars between your round trip to the US and then also round trip down Morocco from somewhere in Europe. So this is what I tell people in. If you're if you're looking at bookending, you know in in Europe by say two weeks is usually a little bit better. You know, you come into Europe, whatever, you know, Madrid Barcelona Lisbon Paris wherever you wanna fly into London. Even if. That's your thing. Find the limit. That's fine. But, you know, fly one of these cities, and then he spent a couple of days get over your jet lag. You know, have a kind of easy time of it. Maybe revisit something. If it's usually most people have already done in Europe. So maybe go back to city really liked. And like, you know, like revisit something like a museum or something like loved and then head to Morocco do ten days do told days Morocco. You know, do a good mix. I think of you know, what are two cities in some countries stuff get out into the mountains get out of the desert because that's where I think a lot of countries. That's the kind of the coolest that happened cities are even Raka they tended kind of. We find the camp season, the McDonald's everywhere, you don't it's in the country where you can really see the big differences between cultures in places, which I think are a little bit more interesting for most travellers go into Morocco for. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to Morocco to eat at KFC. I can just go down the road. If I want. All right. So then we're taught like give us then a good itinerary to week ten day two week people can change that based on how many days, but what should they see? And again, we're talking first time travelers to Morocco because we'll have to come. You have you come back on and do a destination diary about Morocco where we dive a little deeper, but first time travelers to Morocco, basically me and how there were coming in. We're skipping CASA Blanca. Okay, cool. What where do we go? What do we see, you know, what would be your itinerary for those type of people? Basically, what what what what should I do when I come there because we're going to plan this out by the end of the podcast. Okay. I'm gonna give you one itinerary, but I'm going to say that the. Yeah. The this is a season specifically. Right. So. Morocco's best. I think visited a temporary like this is best done either in the spring or fall in the summer. You don't want to get out to the desert. You don't wanna be inland. It's just too hot, Nina. So that it's disgusting. You don't spend vacation like that. All right on that. No. When people would you recommend people come like is there a high season where it's more expensive like when we come to Morocco. Yes. That most travel, especially if they're a little bit elastic with their, you know, travel times that they can do their nailed down to that. You know, two weeks in August vacation trying to make it a try to make it in the spring is the ideal. You know, if you can come March, April, I think is ideal because you're gonna get everything blooming. It's going to be warm but not too hot. You know, the nights can still be surprisingly, cool, but not cold. You know, end your days will be hot. But not suffocatingly hot. You know? So it has good mix. I think. Of kind of what you're looking to see in Morocco in weatherwise. It'll be pretty temperate. You know, so it's not gonna be too bad. So you hit their spring. So you go spring up if you can't bring fall, I guess we bomb. Yeah. The fall I love fall time to because he do hit these patches where it's not not New England or anything. But you know, you get some patches of these forest lands where you know, you don't expect it in Morocco be crossing the mountains said he hid. These forest lands were another leaves turning reds yellows Browns. And all that it it lends another kind of beauty to the place, but spring absolutely everything in bloom and everything so, yeah, if I'm going to spring tour in Morocco. Like, I said, you gotta start Marrakesh. It's a place that doesn't disappoint again. There's lots of different budget options, including some great mid range shot can boutique Riyadh hotels there that I think are a place to start. You know, you're going to understand quickly that America does. Have you can go on tours? He can go see, you know, the stadium tombs in walked by the to be a mosque in, you know, go into the Americas museum and all that. But really, it's it's I mean, you give familiar with the place through some of that stuff. But really it's a place that you spend most of your time just walking through the old souks. You know, these old marketplace's in haggling was owners over stuff, you probably don't need. I mean, this is this is dodging scooters at are everywhere events tomorrow. You know, it's vibrant. It's lively, you know, there's nothing quite like being on the gymnast met right after sunset, you know. When he when he come out that right after sunset is just it's like a circus every night, you know, it's just the energies there. There's all sorts of street performers all sorts of I don't know new name it. There's everything going out. There is, you know, it's it feels like, you know, the the moment in there's a mess that you feel like this is where it's all happening in tap tapping. And it's happening here. That's the feeling you know night. So you're doing. You're doing what a a couple of days in Marrakesh. Right. I just spent a week in America felt like could it used another week? And I was doing stuff everyday. Like, I am not lounging by the pool, you know? So if you if you want to give yourself a little bit of lounging time, you you don't feel like you need to do a lot. I say man, three nights America minimum is that's the first city, you're hitting. I'd stretch that four nights, particularly if I'm getting over any sort of jet lag or something like that. I'd wanna give myself at least a day to just kinda chill out. The American says easy to do. I think three or four days lots of beautiful gardens to walk through banned. Yeah. If you set yourself up in a nice enough, looking at the mid level type thing it'll be really easy start as till your trip. Brennan car. That's the next thing. I do because we're gonna head south at once we head south. There's not a lot of trains public buses only run once or twice a day, you'd be on a very tight schedule. If you're doing buses. So that's why I rented a car this last time, and I'm very happy. I did it turned out maybe cheaper than doing a lot of the grand taxis. I dunno less headache, anywhere. I felt like had more freedom to just kind of stop and pull pullover when whenever felt hey that looks kinda cool. I can't honestly I can't count. How many roads have went down? Just because I like light the name of this place. I was like, oh that sounds cool. Nothing's really written about it. Let's fun over here. Do night. You know, I love that the classic road trip. You know? So I think this is dietary that for me would be the classic road trip. You know? So you start Marrakesh youth report as there, and then I'd head out to swear, I do at least one maybe two nights in swear that's out on the coast to me on the Atlantic coast. Eating at mea. Which is awesome. It's delicious restaurant, kind of French Morocco confusion. But yeah, I get there's a great budge option there the chill art hostile. Which is just a if you like artists in like music and stuff. I mean, they keep it like. Yup. Quiet hours and everything like that. But I made it to it's a nice place. Domes always can find a spot for somebody coming in. So the chiller hostile over their nest where I think is fantastic. Just as one of my probably found my top, maybe my second privilege budget option in all Morocco. Bensaid? There's of course, help skills stuff a lot. You can do there too. And then from this word head down the coast, the ten Zoot, I do a little yoga surf class for a day. They're spend one night in deficit than again. That's one you can do mid range or budget there. And then I continue on down the coast. And so I I be working all the way to city ride. So there's different ways you can break up that drive, but my big stops would be as where hazards, and then I probably stop in. Tis neat. Probably for night. Tis needs kind of a it's relatively unexplored. You know, not a lot of people are going there, which is a shame because it's a beautiful media media. They got a great great new museum about to open. That's going to the Berbers for the original people Morocco Emma zero the temperature, and they are they've been there for thousands of years. I mean, nobody knows how long xactly, but they've been there for a long time. And they are pre you know, there are pre Roman pre cards the Chilean at pre era, pre French pres vein as pre everything they've been there for a long time. Kind of like are like knitting. In the US, you know, and there's a very strong indigenous cultures still alive. They're Morocco weather, still speaking this language, the again, it's it's that part of that culture is launched not just Arab in French is like all of a sudden there's other layer of this indigenous language intimidate has a great museum for all this stuff along with some Heather love this. That's where you go shopping for silver. All right. She could ask me Chris can we edit that out, please? I don't want her listening to that. But no, I mean, it's it's really it's a great spot to do a little shopping for chunky jewelry, which I I got a husband points for getting this from my wife, a nice little necklace, set and everything for necklace, earrings bracelet thing certificates. Great spot. The Riyadh genug is a really good address there. The owners are Indian in Belgian Moroccan, which means if by this having your trip seven days into eter. So your little tired of the tachyon's couscous, which is pretty staple restaurants and stuff. They can bid cook you up some great Indian food, which is always a nice little tree. Yes. I still stop there. As a religion news. Pretty awesome in the CDs. Knee. I like us evening, I'll belong to the friendship into law. I think the nineteen seventies. As has this little bit of Spanish. Vibe to it an incident another kind of surfer town in stuff. So it's another place, you can do surfer destinations, but the real draw here is let's gear beach, which is just north of it. Just a couple minutes drive, north beautiful beach. So like, you get a nice little beach head. So from that I'd circle back up to the sues go through Taft route, which is great little kind of in the middle of the anti atlas. So go hiking through Taff rob in. I do probably a day in Taffer out. Maybe even two nights. But make sure yet one full day to do like a little bit of hiking up. There is just beautiful stuff. You know, like the kind of senior you're never gonna see anywhere else that looks like it's almost Pakalitha taken away like all this like crumbling mountain. Rocky terrain, you know, just wonderful though. And then on the way back up through Marrakesh. I do Tila lean. Stop for some saffron because they plug saffron there. That is probably the best in the world has had foodies out there in get yourself, some Safran. I mean, you get like five grams of wonderful half Ron for like three bucks a hat. Yeah. San Antonio H E man killer expensive. Yeah. Cool. I'm thinking about a small business. By the grandparents crazy, and then you have time allows and I do a big drive out to the desert. I go out to Gora. And then on some hammered out his Lynn kinda really the end of the road, and from there, you can go to a place. Berkshire Gaga which is the largest sand dune that's really relatively. There's some tourism there. But not nearly as much as Mercer Yuga and sunken pervert, a little bit more has a little bit more of that cut solid or sorry. The solitude that I'm looking for when I go out to the desert, so I finish up at Rick's Gaga. And then on my way back I do overnight. Probably where's that? And then I'd be back America. And that's kind of Slough by do. Yeah. So I'm looking at map 'cause I had no idea where any of it was. I'm looking at. And it's still essentially if you're using catches your northernmost point, you're kind of looping down like two thirds of the coast coming back through would you? I mean, then I'm just looking at Morocco's a country. I'm like, whoa. Like, there's a huge chunk up north you have Fezzan robot and CASA Blanca, very talk about CASA Blanca, I know, we were trying to keep it to a certain amount of time is that worth going up to see like Fezzan robot and northern Morocco. What what type of experience or my getting up there? Or would you say, hey, like, the southern part if you just talked about is is better or what what you would give to someone who is a first timer. I give it someone of the first timers. And none of the second time you come back. Rocco? So here's my here's my thing. Like, I usually when people only have like ten days in Morocco. I don't want them toys today's travel time. You know, that's music all the to the vacation day. You know, like if I have ten days of occasion in you. Tell me, you know, day five day eight I'm gonna spend nine hours in a car. That's always been vacation for me or vacation day. You know, like, I I love good road trip. But like I try to keep it at like four hours of driving or so a day. Because I feel like that's pretty good. You know, you you drive, you know after breakfast. He gets more buy lunch. You have the afternoon to do an activity. You have the night. Ted. Maybe do something else or get a good night's sleep or something. Now problematically if we're gonna go from south, Morocco, north Morocco. So if you're going for America using that any anyone get causing Lanka because we know this end than we wanna go to fez, which a lot of people. Do that's a big trip? You know, you're looking at nine hours, or so, you know, like, you know, like, if the train has a delay. You're on the train that could easily be twelve hours happens all the time if you're driving you get behind one slow little trunk all the sudden near you know, eight and a half hour drive easily turns into nine ten hours. That's how that's a whole day. You know what? I mean, the end you're going to have to do that usually because your round trip ticket would be coming back from areas tonight. You're stuck doing that same trip back. And so that's why I'm I'm usually tell people like pick one or the other, you know, now, if you have more time now, you get into like, all right? Well, here here's a different kind of. Luth we can do. So like, you know, we can go from that, you know, the Gora can area and instead of coming back to America. So we can actually go up through the desert. There's a couple of really cool gorgeous up there that we can hit the data's gorge. That is beautiful if people are in the rock, climbing rock climbing there, but is great hiking. Nice places to stay a couple of good restaurants up in there to and then. You can come over the mountains to fez, which I find most Americans typically actually like Feza little bit better than Merrill cash. And I can kinda see why that is I I myself prefer says a little bit as well. It's it's a city that keeps it secret too, pretty close. But once he opened him up. It's pretty amazing. You know? And so yeah, I find a few days in as well warranted. And from as yet Roman ruins to go explore in Volusia LA's, another capital capital city of McNally's, which is good for a day trip. And then you get into chef Shaolin, which is the Instagram hit right now from my when I was gonna say I've heard if you have shown I don't even know why? But I think it's because. Yeah. Okay. Stupidly photogenic. It's a it's a really pretty magical city end hash, I think is still pretty big up there. So, you know, anybody into like. Smoke a little bit. Like that's kind of where they do. You wish showman has that kind of street Craig going forward as well. Yeah. But then he could do that tour where you're going from says up to chef shallan, Ted Thuan, which is great lesser visited city, really Morocco before hitting tangerine ac-, LA what is the driving like could you mentioned the times is it like if you were taking that job at say, I let's start with the drives that you mentioned doing the southern is it is it easy. Driving highways is it's super scenic because I'm with you that I don't want to spend all the day in a car. But if it's if the drive itself is really really awesome. Then it makes it obviously a little better feel like, well, it's supersedes all the time. All right. Yeah. Nine hours a long time. But at least I'm seeing stuff if it's a highway going through the middle of nowhere. You're lying. Yeah. Nine hours is not something. I would do fun for the first right, right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. The the drive I described by love it because it scenic things are changing yet. These like majestic coastlines, you know, into some Rocky Mountain terrain. He gets desert narrates mountains in there. A little bit of everything when particularly have taken that Marrakesh fez trip that people do you're either on a highway 'cause that's the quickest way to do it. And that's not very scenic. I mean, not to say it's on totally devoid of things to look at. You know, what I mean, the first time you're gonna drive again, you notice stuff, but the other thing with that is it is a little stressful because these are is your thorough Thor's in, you know, with, you know, the kind of madness if driving they were talking about earlier that's fun for half an hour is you're trying to get across the city or something. But if he doing that for ten hours on the road or something that gets really stressful, you know, on your hair ago, white I think that's actually kind of what happened to me. Too much. Dr. In. But the the nice thing about winter out kind of in the other these other like less traveled roads like everywhere else, you know, their country roads, you see the kind of people the area. I'm you're gonna hit the occasional slow sheet. Cars something like that or chicken wagon or whatever any on the happens. But you know, if you can paste, you're driving added, it's it's a nice pace. You know, like I like it quite a bit. I mean, I I remember on this last trip. I did I pulled over a few times on the side of the road issues in pictures ended up right in Email and everything in out there. And I realized like no cars passed me. Like I've been sitting on this road for like ten minutes. You know, not a single cars passed me. That's like, oh, wow. That's I'm really come out in the middle of the where happening in Paris believe it in. Southern said, you know that you don't city driving's really stressful. The highways are easy to get up and down, but they have Darna scenic. You know, so for me like that's the thing if I'm going to have a road trip like making pretty yeah. All right. So we shouldn't feel bad. If if we go to Marakesh, and we start there, we shouldn't feel bad about missing fez and the north at least the first time. No. Because that's way, come back. The second time. There you go now or or I was thinking this to maybe you don't even get around trip ticket maybe start in fez. Although I guess with the rental cars might be difficult you start in. Fez, you go down you start. There. You go down America hang out there. Then take that loop. And then flat America. I don't know. I guess yeah. I'm a big proponent of like one way because then you're not having to go back, and you could see more. But yeah, maybe with a run a card. I don't know if it's worth there's one way if I'm looking to do this next time. So they just opened up a flight. Between Fezzan Marakesh that's like forty five minutes. So I'm actually thinking what I might try to do my next trip down. There is I'm gonna see if this is feasible to like this kind of ten date who were the north catch a flight from fest. America do age toward the south. Okay. All right now, we're talking. Yeah. I think that'd be pretty cool. Then I can skip that middle that sucks. Yeah. All right now, we're talking. All right. So then if which is hitting like, the big cities are big areas. Go I don't even know all again pretty novice when it comes to Morocco just to finish up, the ideas. Fez, definitely worth it. If you're if you're going to be up in that area on a C that tinge year. Yes. No. Is it like, so if you are the French rediscovering tanger- right now the kings just put a ton of money into the city, so all the infrastructure that place is just. Fantastic. It boasts my favorite public park can all in Morocco right now that predicts park I mean with these yet insanely gorgeous views out over the Mediterranean screen spot for picnic and stuff or even like a trail run. You know, if you wanted to get a quick run in wonderful in the end, it's still Medina like this old city that is the old part of it is still relatively. I mean, it gets touristed. But it's only daytrippers you know, what I mean. It's almost people just come in through in. That's how tenders always been. So I think like if you like like say Malaita, or if you like must say, he's kinda like scruffy her port towns like you loved hinder dodging on for me. It has that same kind of vibe to Gotcha robot yet. Yea nay. My wife, and I talked about this. If we're gonna live in Rocco that would be the city we live in just because it's probably about the cleanest. It's about the most European in a way. So like that it loses some charm. I think in some ways, you know? But it would be probably the best place. If you have a kid, which is what we're thinking about favorite kid, the probably the best schools best healthcare and all that stuff right there. So say a robot romance. If it's on your tree, like if it's on your like, if you're doing a road trip, and you're like, well, we're gonna go through robot stopping robot for a day or two, you know, what? I mean, there's plenty of stuff to do. Some really interesting like old Roman ruins there's. One of my favorite commutes in the world are these like little boats that take you from solid which is this little city just north of robot. So you just crossed the river by boat, and you just like the gives these guys like a few Durham's like the local currency knows though, you're talking like, maybe thirty cents forty cents in the hop on a boat in ten minutes later, you're on the other side of the river. And that's how people commute back and forth. That's mixed for a nice little little photo op little. Yeah. But they have a goo- cast bother, you know, like really by has a really nice casbah in for a lot of people that they can work it. So robots. The last town they're going to be in. That's maybe the best place to shop for souvenirs stuff. Just because people are really arrogant to turn barter for prices. That's not that towns culture. So that's one of the few places in Rocco where you can like go get that. I Don t sadder whatever you wanted to not have to haggle for forty five minutes out. Right. You can just go say can go and get it. Okay. Yeah. All right. We talked about concept Blanca, we talked about Marrakesh that kinda hits the main areas. I think what I just didn't taking from this is that we need at least three weeks is what I it's kind of what I need that ten day ten day. Right. And that little boy that that sounds like that sounds perfect right there the ten day ten day. So we'll have to we'll have to talk about when you might be doing that. And when we can when we can hop on. On that cool. What about and this is getting off Morocco or can be Morocco specific if you want, but just ways because obviously you've traveled quite a bit now ways that you like to save money while traveling one of them, we talked about the, hey, go budget and then go luxury skip the middle range. Is there any other like little tips and tricks that you particularly like to use again, Morocco specific parish perspectives Pacific or just in general. Yeah. So. Yeah. There's there's a man I don't know where to start are. So plan ahead. I've not been great at this in my life. But as I'm getting a little older and getting a little bit better at this. Like, I mentioned earlier that I've saved a ton of money on car rental despite planning ahead as everybody knows that same kind of goes with with tickets, you know, if you can like shop for tickets for buying them out of pocket a shop to three months in advance. A lot of times you'll find some great deals, you know, so complaining new things in advance. I think helps quite a bit. So if you can kinda get your lodging your ticket, and your transportation, covered like those are your three biggest expenses in whatever money you. However, you can save money that way, I think that that helps so I know some people I sent it using miles. I should be using miles. I'm a horrible. I just think of it was like one other spreadsheet to keep track of it. I can't bother. As much as I it probably should. But but I'm one of these have always kinda sniped in for like the cheapest round trip by confined or something. Yes. So so yeah. That that I think is probably saved me the most amount of money. Honestly, the other thing I do. And this is what got me into guidebook writing in the first place take up a guidebook beforehand and do a little homework. You know, like even the worst guidebook kinda gives you something to base some decisions off of, you know, events. I didn't start doing until I was in Prague didn't speak the language have been there for month. I kept on crossing this bridge. And I was like what am I doing here? What is this place? I'd take up some like decay eyewitness or whatever all the Senate was enthralled. How I had no idea. Now. I mean, it just in a way, you know. It's fifteen twenty bucks. He can spend that will enrich here travel so much. You know, what I mean, it's not enough to just walk through. I don't like resent chef shallan, it's Instagram where. It's so pretty looking. But, but what are you actually seeing you know, like, you know, why up there what what is the story? Yeah. Spend the five minutes game a couple of paragraphs and you'll get so much more out of it. You know? So like that I find out. Yeah. Maybe not saving money, quote, unquote. But I think it does papers have long way in terms of enriching experience in evidently can evidently every time I've traveled was a book all end up referring to it at least once or twice for lodging work for transportation. And it's ended up saving me either money or from bedbugs. Which is probably more important saving for bedbugs than saving for money. I'm with a man, I'm a big proponent of guidebooks of paper guidebooks. We just kind of was on a co the with another guy sat and we were talking about we're not gonna get into this. But like the rise of apps and all that and smartphone. It's good for some stuff and some stuff you feel like it takes away the travel experience one thing that I love is having a physical guidebook in my hand. Because I you know, you can dog here you could write in it. You can reference back to it. You can give it to another traveler, which is always cool. I I'm with you, man. So I'm glad that you wrote that the guide book on Morocco, which is sitting on my on my desk next to my bed. And I keep looking like oh fight. If I crack this open and really start reading too much like I am not going to survive the winner here in Philadelphia. Like, I'm going to have to book a flight right away. Hey man for the second edition. Maybe it'll be it'll be on October twenty nine hundred a long way. I sorry. I'm not researching it right now. Like back and forth between Morocco its own until I mean through this summer or early. Yeah. So. Speak your seasons. Real quick, you said spring, you said fall is there is there definitely times that you would or months you would tell people to avoid like, I mean, it's more like like, I wouldn't say avoid the whole country. You know, like if that's your only spot for vacation. That's all you get you know, like a lot of they only have that week or two. And that's that's how have so in that case, I told him just a little bit careful about where you're going. You know, so if you're going in the month of August, for example, you don't undo desert trip, he aren't gonna wanna be America because you know, these places again hundred plus degrees. There's not a lot of air conditioning. A lot of things are closed. A lot of things run shorter hours. You know, send us makes the whole experience not ideal versus if you're out on the coast, the coast to coast, you know, you can have a nice beach vacation do a little exploration of some smaller towns out there. I mean, most of them rockets kind fled to the north of Morocco like along the Mediterranean and stuff satanic. Packed in August. Some people love that. Like, it changes the energy of the place quite a bit. You know from kind of a lazy report town to really have vibrant port town. You know, August is kind of big month up there. But yeah, if you're in on the coast, I think that's great winner is fine. I think winter you can travel. It's just getting across the mountains can be a little trickier because they will snow on in because they don't snow that often. If you do have a big snow, there's not a lot of snow plows in the country's clearing. The roads can take a while. So you just have to be ready to just your, you know, your schedule a little bit. You know? So it's like this this mountain passes closed. Okay. We'll plan B is we're going to go this way. You know? So I think it's just like wintertime, particularly you wanna have have to have a plan d maybe even a plan C N B cool with that, you know. And I think you know, it's gonna be a little rainier because it does get, you know, we'll get rainy. But I mean doesn't get that cold. You know, what I mean, if you're the desert it can freeze, though, forget that you know, the desert can freeze at night so onto warm clothes for the desert, which is interesting do prices change much throughout the seasons. Or is it like, or is it pretty standard all the time? Yeah. I mean, the spring and fall are pretty much thought the high-seasons, you know, all the way round with the coasts kind of stand peak even into the end of the summer months as well. And then that wintertime kind of is a bit of a lull for most people, but it's it's almost the same as Europe for you. It's a bit of that log set for those kind of like Christmas holidays when the know everyone's on -cations things are gonna come back up. If people wanted to really do their homework. You also matchup your Moroccan holiday with French holidays. Because if the lot of the French have because it's a former protectorate they head into Morocco on their vacation times. So there is like set vacation weeks for schools in France, any one of those weeks if possible God's a little more homework to do. But in a I mean, look at it. You know? French school calendar Ren school calendar? You know? He hit sucks of the cities. You know? I mean, that's a big thing. Mostly in the city. Yeah. So but yet so the so the is kind of peek a little bit more with the French vacations. But yeah, it's like everywhere else. You know, like when it's a lot more people. There are a lot more demand. The prices go up. So that's that's pretty standard for the hotels in particular. Awesome. Any talked about what you had come up in the pipeline. I'll get to that. In one second. I want you to share if you would your biggest travel mishap 'cause I can't let you go without cocky about this. So what sticks out in your mind is something that you've done that you like oh boy. Be some I did or no it doesn't have to be something you did or something that happened to you. Yeah. That's fine. All right. So are are. So I'm gonna give you to give you the latest one one that I did. So this last everyone pulled us up 'cause you're on the screen. See see this. As I as I do a lot of travel writing the last year, particularly I've been asked for a lot of photography at made enough money. I was a comment. She gets furious about photography a real camera. It gets real gear in a learn light room a little bit better some Photoshop tricks and stuff. So I bought this new Sony seven three Saddam can't like knockout camera. Just great. I'm having customized the thing. It's it's a wonderful camera. Second to last name. Rocco straight have dropped it crack the CD's screens easy. Those piece of orange taped by holding stick entered right? So I don't know what's going to happen with that. But that's yet thousand dollars camera that I mean it still works, right? Takes good pictures. You just have tape on the screen, Dave all over this. So there's that. But one to happen to me was I mean, it's a wonder as second Morocco for six years. So I packed up my life in San Francisco sold all my belongings. Had literally whittled everything down to these two bags and a backpack rights have two bags. I'm gonna check in the backpack. And this is my life. After many delayed flights cancelled flights a night in airport. Like a random sixteen hours that was unexpected in Madrid in the middle of August. Just sweating alter all my clothes, hop on the plate change clothes get into Morocco. Get my connecting flight into says. I'm there I'm exhausted. I'm ready to start my new life. So and I'm there and I'm exhausted. And I'm ready to start this new life and there, and where my bags it's been in our in our man, whereas my bags are they going to come off the no they are not coming off at abject are. They. Oh, no. So I spent the first two weeks of money life Rocco with literally what happened backpack, which was a book, a laptop a spare change a close, you know, the basic basics, and where we get to this this town, I'm going to be in. It's it's is August everyone's on vacation at also happen to be the first day of Ramadan. And so everything's closed. That's my first time. -perienced Ramadan's have no idea. It was going on. I'm trying to get like tokens for these washing machines. So I can wash like my one para. There's nowhere to get these washer and she Duggan. So I'm like handwashing things bar soap two weeks country, just like sitting the sterile Barbancey. Like, so this I moved here for this. Sagan in the Gordon. Oh, man that makes my first two weeks in Japan seemed like downright luxury where I had to literally nothing, and you know, as you like super humid, no air conditioner. Nothing. Just a fan one teacher left fan, and I would just sweat and lie on the tatami mat with my head in the van, and then I'd walked to the grocery store at twenty minutes and to get food because I had no refrigerator try to eat everything. Yeah. All right. So I at least had underwear though, I admire. Was we go for Japanese and Japanese minimalism, you know, right? Yeah. Right. So so an auspicious start to your time and Rocco which then led you to six more years. So. I'm just a glutton for punishment. That's right. It went up from there. Obviously what after a root canal after the root. Can I was? The bottom of the barrel was up after that. There you go. So no underwear root canal. You like all right. I'm going up baby is nowhere to go. But fears going to be awesome. What do you have coming in the pipeline that you mentioned the second edition and the travel of the of the moon guide? Tamako that's come in eastern, October twenty thousand nine what else do you have anything else that people should be interested in or check us? So so I got a couple of things. So the journey on tr-. Okay. Let's moon second book as well. So I'm doing not only Rocco guidebook, but I'm also doing a book, that's just Marrakesh and the south. So I'll be doing a second book just for that. And then I might this is a tree I shouldn't. Now, I might be doing them all ago as while because I spent a ton of time in Endo Lucia, my mom had retired there. Pushing product hurts. I get people to come over here. Say there you go. Wow. Okay. So yeah, I got my mom to her and her husband retired over here years ago. So we spent a lot of time in the end of the year right now. So we're right in Malaita Candice area because line quite a bit. So there's a good chance on might be doing that as well. On the other thing, I'm gonna do started twenty nineteen is working really closely with a kind of high end luxury travel company where we're customizing vacations other called journey beyond travel have been editing their blog for a year. So now, but I've been working with that the founders for men five or six years now it's been since two thousand twelve I think we've been working together. And so, yeah, as as things are going to go on twenty nineteen I'll be doing quite a bit of the actual hands on stuff there, which will be kind of a fun thing to do. So it's gonna give me a lot lot excuses to go back into Morocco even done like publishing these books nominated like all right? Well, I have to go for work. So so, yeah, I'll be with joining the on travel quite a bit organizing trips for them customizing vacations for people and those all those occasions will be Moroccan vacations, like you'll be guest Brockett specific country on we only take on a few visitors per week. And it's all very had very high end, very kind of bespoke tours words, it's a lot of great places to stay places to eat. But these kind of we work on these authentic moments where you're actually relating with the culture. Been way. That's not monetary. You know, like, I we work with a great group of people there to Kenneth. You'll go on for instance, you'll go on like a little bit of a hike in the morning and for the afternoon, you'll stop it the guides parents house, and you're just gonna eat what the locals as they do, you know, share laugh around the table menu, hiking back out, you know, so there's a lot of this kind of stuff. So a lot of this kind of very particular tourism that we're working on developing Morocco. So nice awesome. So you got a lot going on. All right. So in a in a two and a half year old is going to say, and you've got a little guy there. Yeah. Yeah. So men a lot going on. It's seems really tough, man. You're bouncing between Morocco Paris and Malaita like, oh, I really feel bad for you. You've had a tough gig. Ben. Sometimes I would say that life has gone up since you had no underwear that first couple of days or first couple of weeks, Morocco. Dude. I just really appreciate you. Joining me today. Obviously for pushing me sending me the guidebook further elevating, my and mine end Heather's, I should say wanderlust Morocco. Well, also, just providing some super helpful advice for traveling there. I mean, they're Tinerama you gave and guys will link everything up in the show notes on that Lucas was talking about. So if you heard stuff, you're like, I don't even know where it is that he's talking about. But it sounds often. I wanted to still that right? Exactly. I'm actually going to put him to work a little bit because he doesn't have enough. I'm going to ask him to help me with the show because I'm going to I'm at a loss at this point. So we'll have Lucas help us put together some show notes. And maybe may I'm saying maybe not guaranteeing this, maybe even a little map. So you can see what we're doing there. So Lucas remind people one more time like where should they go to find your stuff? How? Can they get the guidebook all the all the goodies start? You're going to hit my website WWW dot Lucas in Peter's dot com of on there. You've got links to the book links Instagram Facebook, all that stuff there. I think it is easiest to go. You can Google search me, I think if you just look like Lucas Peter's because Peters on Google usually the first page or two on their with a lot of the Twitter's on their Instagram all that stuff some pretty easy to find. Or you could just come to my house over here in Paris. If you're in the neighborhood will meet for a little glass downstairs. Cy metro. There you go. He's looking for people to come over and have a beer with. I think is what he's getting at. The fifteenth around this month. Yeah. Just hang on out there. Cool, man. Well, a haunting an infernos and they need voyeur. Yeah. I can't do it as well as your French. But if you're one of those if you like if you if you like to stroll, which I still think is an awesome, Frederick if you'd like to stroll or you like two peak in people's houses, totally there you go. There you go go find Lucas. Thank you, man. We really appreciate guys we will link everything up in the show notes. I mentioned that you can get that extra pack of peanuts dot com slash shows. Also, I should make note if you're looking for cheap flights we talked a little bit about that app. Check out the app Jetta, we just launched that a little while ago. You can get that. Let's Geno dot com. You can also find it on Google Google play store or the app store, and I have been seeing super cheap flights recently to Spain. There's been a lot of cool stuff from the east coast to Spain. We're talking like round trip three hundred bucks. So if you get to Spain, then you get one hundred dollars round trip down in Morocco. You could feasibly get to Morocco for under five hundred bucks, which is pretty ferry from Theresa walk onto that vary from tree right intense year there. That's what I'm doing. All right off. Thank you Lucas. Thanks again. It's so nice to finally get to Chattanooga person. Get you on the show. Like, I said, we'll we'll maybe we'll do a destination dying. We Rocco where even pinpointing more specific stuff. But dude, really appreciate it's been awesome. Awesome. Thanks travis. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Everyone for tuning in today for your continued support that makes us no one ready to Chow podcast in the world. And until next time happy free travels.

Morocco Paris United States London Europe Rocco Lucas Heather America Seattle New York Times UNESCO Marrakesh Riyadh writer Amazon Barack New York
Morocco arrests 4,300 people for violating emergency rules

Newscast - Africa

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Morocco arrests 4,300 people for violating emergency rules

"You're listening to the news at this hour on Africa. Business Radio more than four thousand. Three hundred. People were arrested over the weekend in Morocco. For breach and emergency routes in place to combat the novel coronavirus according to reports more than half of those detained were taken into police custody. Since mid-march authorities have arrested turned eight thousand seven hundred one people across the country over fifteen thousand of them have been fair to court after being held in custody. The largest number of arrests were made in the country's economic center of Casablanca and the capital Rabat penalties for violating measures in place to curb the spread of the Kobe. Nineteen disease include up to three months in jail and fines of up to one thousand three hundred dollars times or both. And that was the news. At this time on Africa Business Radio you can continue to listen life online at. Www Dot Africa business radio DOT COM OFF OUR MOBILE APP. Thank you for listening.

Africa Dot Africa Morocco Casablanca Rabat Kobe one thousand three hundred dol three months
The Perdicaris Incident

Stuff You Missed in History Class

36:09 min | 1 year ago

The Perdicaris Incident

"Listeners. I'd like to tell you about another show you may enjoy how to money, it's not your typical personal finance podcast, two best friends, Matt and Joel or the host of the show, it's humorous in its relatable. And it's all about making money conversations fund. Interesting and informative every Wednesday. They cover real life money topics like how to cut your grocery Bill. Why your house is a terrible investment and how to achieve financial independence? If you're not the greatest at money, or if you're just interested in personal finance than how to many is for you. Listen and subscribe on apple podcast iheartradio app or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just search for how to money. Welcome to stuff you missed in history. Class from how stuff works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly fry and I'm Tracy Wilson. We're going to do a quick little bit of housekeeping right out of the gate. So first of all big excitement because we are going to Paris Fran. Yes. You our listeners have the opportunity to come with us. So if you would like to take the French revolution tour that we were doing in June of this year, you can go check that out at our website missed in history dot com. And then if the at the top of the menu bar there is a little option that says Paris trip with an exclamation point. Because we are excited, and that will take you through all of the information and YouTube can join us as we run around Paris and go to Versailles, and I I'm gonna cry a lot. So if you'd like to watch me cry now's your shot. He other thing that we have is just in case, you didn't know or maybe you knew in forgot we have a t public store where you can get all kinds of goodies. You can get various designs related to things that have come up on the podcast on shirts, and on mugs, and on stickers and all kinds of other things if you would like to check any of that out, please do that. You can also go to our website missed in history dot com. Click on in that same menu bar. The words store, and it will take you right there. And then you can browse and explore. We recently had one related to our ballet episodes that I think is quite a cute design. I didn't do it. So I feel comfortable saying we also have a lunar beavers T shirt, which we said we wanted years ago when we recorded the hoax episode. I actually had a funny moment recently while I was wearing that shirt. This is one hundred percent true while I was traveling this weekend, I had that shirt on and I was at the airport, and I was at the airport bar waiting on my flight getting a couple of cocktails and this man leaned over and said you have to explain what lunar beavers to me. Like, okay. Where do I start? I have a podcast. I there's also. Okay. So they're beavers on the mood. Wait, no like contextualising that quickly becomes tricky. So if you buy one prepare yourself a soundbite when we're random strangers ask you what it is. I also had a friend asked me about it. But that was easier. She knows about the show. Yes. So we are now that we're done with housekeeping that is the sound of me, wiping, my hands from housekeeping work, we can jump right into today's podcast. Yeah. Today's episode was suggested by our listener Edward, and he became intrigued with the story when he was watching a fictional version of it that was a film called the wind and the lion. That was made in nineteen seventy five is star. Sean Connery and Candice Bergen, Bryan Kice, and John Houston is a very fun watch. But it plays with reality. A little bit to make it more compelling, for example, the character played by Candice Bergen was in fact, not a woman, but she's added in to create some tension romance. So without any embellishment or gender swapping figures to create weird romance, subplots this story is fascinating all in its own. And it happened in Morocco in the early twentieth century, but it impacted American history significantly, and it is the story of famous kidnapping and to begin. We will I give some background on the man for whom this. Whole affair is named EON purdah Carris. It doesn't entirely surprise me that a fictional romantic subplot was totally made up to make this into a movie because that's the kind of thing that happens. But it's one of those stories where you didn't need you that it was plenty of action on. Yes. So EON prodecures has a surprisingly scant biography for a man who had the wealth and importance that he did he was born in eighteen forty his father, Gregory prodecures was Greek and was a naturalized citizen. He had married into a wealthy southern family in South Carolina. Gregory prodecures taught at Harvard as a professor of Greek language and lived in Trenton, New Jersey, he made a nice fortune for himself in the gas light industry and eventually became the US console to Greece E ON his son went to Harvard. But only briefly it appears that he enrolled in eighteen sixty but he decided to study. Broad during his sophomore year. And this, of course, coincides with the beginning of the US civil war. It is unclear what EON stance on the conflict was as his parents. According to the press of the day were split on the issue. So according to reports that circulated during the kidnapping press coverage, we're going to contextualize the kidnapping later, but these things came up, Gregory eons father supported the union and his mother was a confederate supporter. So during the civil war years EON was sometimes at home in Trenton, but also spent long periods of time in England and Morocco also worked writing articles for magazines and by the mid eighteen eighties. He was living primarily in tanger- in a home that he had started building an eighteen seventy seven that residence known as villa? Adonia was also called the place of the nightingales and it sits on hills. Overlooking the city in in tanger- prodecures became a well-known member of the expatriate community. He threw extravagant dinners, and he lived a fairly free life in the way that an independently wealthy man of the day did enjoying time with his family and occasionally writing a book or article he was very engaged in the community though, and he lobbied against diplomatic corruption in the mid eighteen eighty s a matter which made him fairly well known to members of the US government that particular case had involved Moroccan woman who had accused a consular protege of sexual assault and yon precarious wanted the man prosecuted outside of a consular court refusal to give the woman any sort of Justice led to him writing a pamphlet called American claims and protection of native subjects in Morocco. He published the pamphlet himself and had it distributed in London to try to get the attention of the European press. While the American consul who had protected the accused man was ultimately fired from his position. It was really only after the consul's office had waged this personal war on. Prodecures for this embarrassment that they felt he had caused which included fines and arrests and just general harassment. Yeah. He was basically like if you try them and consular court, nothing's going to happen to this guy. We this woman really deserves better than this. Could we actually try this as a trial, but they were not interested in doing that by the early nineteen hundreds precarious was a fixture in tanger-. And while he often traveled to Europe, and the US Morocco was really his home. But Morocco was not the most stable place, the events that unfold in this episode start a month after an agreement had been struck between England and France regarding the handling of both Egypt and Morocco this Untung cordial, basically recognized France's power in Morocco and Britain's power in Egypt. It was sort of divvying up the power in other countries. This augmented existing conflict on a couple of fronts. So for one as these scramble of Africa had been developing. Germany had set its sights on Morocco for itself. So among the European countries that were trying to seize power on the African continent. There was tension, particularly because two of those countries Great Britain and France had just kind of decided between themselves to this plan. Even though other countries had interests in both Morocco and Egypt including Spain, which we talked about in our franscisco Franko episode. Yes within Morocco. Also, there was plenty of resentment toward Europeans just strolling in in claiming things not only because that was a jerk move. But because their own Moroccan Felton of delicacies was really making this matter worse. Abilities had been Sultan for ten years in one thousand nine four having succeeded. His father Hassan the first, and he was only sixteen when he rose to power and Morocco had been ruled by a regent for six years before Abdulaziz came into his own as a ruler which happened when the regent died unsurprisingly that could be its own whole story and podcast. That is not the scope of this particular days discussion as Sultan Adelaziz looked to Europe for inspiration and advice, he wanted to modernize Morocco and its infrastructure, and he wanted to change the way the tax system worked this entire ideology. That did not go over well initially, there was support for his reform ideas. But the execution of them was really poor. There just wasn't a system more administrators than place to handle all the kind of changes that he was trying to make. So his standing as a ruler started to look very weak to a majority of the people, especially the people in positions of power. Some of them felt like the Sultan was trying to sell his. Own country to Europe and to make matters worse. He had driven up the country's debt with some very frivolous. Spending on wild collections of things like bicycles and grand pianos and cars, and he was borrowing money from European countries to pay for all of this particularly France. So when Britain and France enacted there on Cordell. It really looked a lot to people like France was just taking possession of Morocco. Not surprisingly, the state of affairs led to a lot of conflict within the country. Not only had France suddenly gained a whole lot of power, but an ally Great Britain had just handed it over. So there was a deep sense of betrayal by the government which had been working with British interests various levels for a number of years. There was also a very real sense that a rebellion could erupt at any time as numerous tribes and governmental factions were all jockeying for power, and we are about to get into the kidnapping itself. But before we do, let's take a quick break to hear from a sponsor. You know, people say necessity is the mother of invention. But that's not always true. Sometimes the mother of invention is advertising. Yeah. Or pure accident. How about ego maniacal delusion? Absolutely. Or just a desperate longing. To be cool. I'm Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. We were the host of the science podcasts stuff to blow your mind. And now we're branching off into the exploration of invention. Invention is the story of human history told one piece of technology at a time the things we made and how they made us invention publishes every Monday, listen and subscribe to invention on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. It was dinnertime may eighteenth nineteen four when the kidnapping took place. There were shouts heard from the kitchen, but this did not initially alarm prodecures too much to of his staff, his French chef and his German housekeeper commonly got into a lot of loud arguments, which prodecures had to break up. So after hearing all of this ruckus, he got up from his dinner. And he went to handle what he believed to be a minor skirmish between two staff members in the kitchen and his family followed behind him to see just what had set this whole thing off. He did not find the housekeeper and the chef like he expected he found men with rifles. And this really the purposes thought these men were their own hired guards. But they were not the men cut the phone lines to the house and used their gun stocks to beat the servants Ellen per Perez who was eons wife resisted these men, but was knocked to the floor and her son Cromwell Varley. Was her son from a previous marriage was beaten. The men were a group of brigands led by Ahmed L, Rossouw Lee. And he told them so announcing loudly, I am resolutely the Roslea, and this was not an unknown person. Also, I am probably butchering that name my apologies to anyone who is horrified by it resolutely was infamous in the area as a leader of a group of very active raiders resolutely had been in conflict with the Sultan of Morocco Belaziz who he challenged her power in the region pretty much as soon as he determined. The Sultan was weak resolutely directed his men to saddle horses from the perfect stable and to take Mr. Perdue Kerris in his stepson away and with a gunshot to signal their exit. He and his men set off into the night headed toward the atlas mountains away from the main road with them, and they had kidnapped and before she was dragged away in the phone line was cut the housekeeper had managed to get hold of a telephone operator and ask for help the. The housekeeper at the time though believed that the house was being robbed. She did not know at that point that a kidnapping was underway. But that telephone operator in turn called the United States consul general Samuel argue mayor to tell him that the home of an ex patriot US citizen outside of Tanveer was under attack Commere who had been in the middle of his own dinner. Immediately went to the place of nightingales to investigate. He set up a guard team to cover the house and did what he could to try to reassure the members of the household who were still there. Then he sought the counsel of his British counterpart in Morocco, sir. Arthur Nicolson, they agreed that the situation in Morocco, including the issues that had arisen after Britain and France had reached their agreement about who controlled each country had been pretty tenuous. It made sense that resolutely would make this kind of a move in the middle of all that an essence insulting the Celtics as weak and as unable to protect the wealthy foreign expatriates who were living in Morocco. Oh, Ghimire next. Telegraph the US State Department to convey, the seriousness of the situation and to request military assistance. And in a way. This was welcome news. We will explain why. Because at this point US, president Theodore Roosevelt was serving his first term, and he was campaigning for a second term so t took immediate and decisive action in the prodecures kidnapping by immediately ordering a naval squadron to Morocco. This was the entire south Atlantic squadron that naval squadron was headed up by Admiral French answer. Chadwick a West Virginia born man who had been outspoken on the matter of naval reform in the United States after the civil war ended Chadwick and Roosevelt were men with similar outlooks, and a lot of regards and most importantly, the willingness to us naval force to try to achieve their objectives. The US console Gamero received a response via telegraph that said worships will be sent to Tange ear as soon as possible. People. And that message also indicated though that it could take several days for them to get there. This was really not an ideal response. It was easy to think that purdah cares might not live that long. So no matter how many ships were coming Gamero was afraid they wouldn't make it in time to save the kidnapped men. Resume was known to be brutal. Ghimire spheres were really justified for one thing. Resolutely had kidnapped foreigners living in Morocco before a reporter for the London Times had been taken hostage in nineteen. Oh three and he was released in exchange for several of Razali's men being released from prison. But that was an unusually good outcome. Resolutely had been in a long standing war, for example, with the local governor, and he had been known to capture the governor's men and send back their bodies in pieces to try to avoid a similar end for purdah Karasin Varley the next step that Gamero took along with the British minister at Tanveer Nicholson was to reach out to the Sultan and the. Government. And to ask them to acquiesce to any demands that Razaleigh in his agents made mayor was genuinely afraid that any kind of delay in responding to these kidnappers would directly lead to the death of these two men, but communicating with the government, and the Sultan proved to be a whole other tricky problem as well. The Moroccan foreign minister was in tanger-, but the Sultan was in fez almost two hundred and fifty miles. It's about four hundred kilometers away. And today that's distance easily traverse by car in just a few hours. But in nineteen zero four that meant several days on Camelback, so Ghimire Nicholson spoke first with the Foreign Minister Muhamed Torres and each man sent a member of his staff to fez to make their case to the Sultan because France was so heavily involved in Morocco's affairs. The French minister was also concerned once he received word of this kidnapping, it wasn't necessarily as magnanimous as Ghimire concern, which seemed to be for the safe return of these objects. Sees France on the other hand was trying to kind of casually take control of things in Morocco and had approached their position thereby keeping a pretty low profile to try to avoid stirring up trouble. Yeah. They had reached this agreement with Britain. And then they were just kind of trying to subtly get a little more ingrained in government bit by bit. And they did not want a big event that made it apparent that. They were trying to throw their weight into the region. So having a member of the foreign community kidnapped created a whole pot of problems for French ministers. Yours linate. And he couldn't let people get panicked. And he also didn't wanna bring in the military and upset this very delicate balance that he had been trying to maintain. So he to ask the Moroccan government to just please give in to whatever resolutely wanted. So everyone could put the whole affair behind them as quickly as possible, and he also sent his own people to go she ate directly with the kidnappers, chimera Nicholson, even consulted Walter Harris. He was the reporter who had been captured by resolutely the year before they wanted to see if he knew anything that might help them. But Gamero was rapidly. Losing hope he wrote in his journal, quote, I cannot conceal from myself and the department that only by extremely delicate negotiations can we hope to escape from the most terrible consequences. Yeah. By that point. He was thinking like we may be have like single digit chance of success of getting these men back in one of the worst aspects was that the Sultan had already been trying to stop the activities of resolution for literal years. With no success. So even if the Sultan got on board was willing to take action. There was every likelihood that things were still gonna fall apart four days after the kidnapping raise. Lease terms were relayed what he wanted was a ransom in exchange for the return of yon purdah Carris, he demanded seventy thousand Spanish silver dollars. But that was not all he also wanted the region known as the riff to be cleared of all government, military personnel. He and he wanted the government officials who had wronged him to be either dismissed her imprisoned further. He wanted to be made governor of two districts, which would essentially be completely free of taxation and the law of the Moroccan government. And he wanted his men to always be promised safe passage wherever they travelled in the country. This list was far more than any of the European or US people involved had expected they kind of expected the ransom. But all of these political demands and demands for power were a little bit of a surprise. And there was literally no way that these demands could be met without hurtling Morocco even deeper into chaos. Frantic telegrams were being sent to the US State Department to inquire about exactly when those promised worships might arrive. An additional demand was also sent out by resolutely. He wanted both the US and the British to guarantee that Morocco would fulfill the terms so all three of these countries had to basically give him everything he was asking for and he was asking for a lot. No country's government wanted to be on the hook for another country giving a violent terrorist. Everything he wanted was cable was sent to Washington DC explaining this whole new development. And of course, this story did not stay quiet and newspapers around the globe picked it up and we're reporting the incident, but the reporting tended to romanticize the whole thing. So a rich expatriate a dangerous bandit the US navy speeding to the rescue. It was all just too much for papers to resist then they followed along with every. Step. When president Roosevelt got the cable about the additional demands that were being put on the United States and Britain. He decided to send the European squadron of the navy under the command of Admiral Theodore f jewel into the bay of tans ears. Try to back up south Atlantic squadron, the United States also made an official request of the French government to come assist in this matter. Yeah. Even though the French government had been doing some things they were acting independently from Britain in the US at that point. They were trying to clean up their own mess quietly. And at this point, the US was like, hey, dude, can you please step it up here. And while papers in the US touted the navy's power and boasted that if needed they could go ashore and take Rasouli by force those on the ground in Morocco who were more familiar with the situation knew better. I such an act would almost certainly lead to the deaths of both prisoners as well as navy personnel. Like, they knew that caution and care had to be used finally on may. Thirtieth nineteen o four twelve days after the kidnapping the first of the US navy ships finally arrived once his flagship the Brooklyn had made its way into the harbor Admiral Chadwick met with the console Ghimire. The two of them contacted the Moroccan foreign minister who was Muhammed Torres. You met with them on the Brooklyn later that day the foreign minister toward the ship and had a pretty cordial chat with human. But when the terms of resolutions demands came up, he was crystal clear that the Moroccan government would not give up anything so Chadwick and Ghimire were left fretting about the life of a US citizen that they could not reach nor could they negotiate for. And we're about to get to a pretty solid twist in the story. So we're going to pause here for a quick sponsor break. If you haven't checked out my new series the end of the world with Josh Clark. The now's a great time to start the holidays are over the doldrums of winter had begun. And there's no better time to explore existentialist dread than right now. But wait, there's more to the end of the world than that. Yes. The series is about existential risks. But it's also about hope the threats that are coming our way that could wipe humans right out of existence. Could also be just the thing that makes us band together. In a way that humanity never has before in the end of the world. I take you on a journey across time and space from the moment and asteroid collided with earth and set off a chain of events that wiped out the dinosaurs to the post biological future where we live in a digital format. If we don't already we'll explore big questions like whether we're alone in the universe and exactly how artificial intelligence could take control of our world from us. It also has a beautiful score and cinematic sound design. So it's an adventure for your mind. Which is just the thing to snap. You out of the winter blahs all ten episodes of the end of the world with Josh Clark are available for you to binge now on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get podcasts. Just as things were getting very handwringing on the part of the US officials in tangent. Here. The unique and surprising question arose as to whether purdah Karras was even a US citizen at all. So remember when we mentioned earlier how Ian Purdie care is had left Harvard as a civil war broke out. And then he kind of Tudela around Europe with seemingly no specific direction so on June first of this year that everything is going down. That's nineteen four the US State Department received a letter from a man in North Carolina named AH Slocum who claims that he had run into prodecures in Athens, Greece in eighteen sixty three in that prodecures was there he said to become a Greek citizen prodecures. It seemed hit inherited property in South Carolina from his mother's family, and it would be seized by the confederacy if he was a US citizen Slocum was very adamant as to the accuracy of his memory in the matter and this plan that they were switching his citizenship to keep his land safe. And if prodecures was not a US citizen this whole business surrounding his kidnapping in arrest was an entirely different miss than the one that president Roosevelt thought that he had gotten into you. We should point out that there's some confusion here about whether claiming citizenship in Greece would have erotic heated his US citizenship, whether he would have had a dual citizenship, it was what like fifty years later that the court even ruled on such a thing when they ruled out, and it was sort of like this is how we've usually done it even though with. Anywhere. Right. But it did make things a little confusing and nutty for sure. Yeah. And it does seem like if his whole idea was wanting to get around his property being seized that regardless of what he was actually doing his intent was to not be a citizen yet US citizens is. Yeah. Yes. So after several days during which there was silence on this whole matter from the White House. The US minister resident in Athens was asked to perform a comprehensive search of the records available to see if there was any truth to this whole thing. And they did discover that on March nineteenth eighteen sixty two not eighteen sixty three yawn prodecures had been naturalized as a Greek citizen despite this revelation, which was handled very discreetly Roosevelt and secretary of State, John, hey, decided to press on as things had already been planned. There were seven US naval worships at Tange ear with other countries also bringing their military aid to bear. So to go public with the news of prodecures is citizenship. Status would have destabilized more than just Morocco. Additionally Roosevelt felt like Rizal Lee thought that prodecures was a US citizen. So it just made sense to leave. This new information alone finally on June, eighth Sultan, Adelaziz gave in. He told the Moroccan government to give resolutely whatever he wanted France which had been putting pressure on the Sultan to resolve this issue by meeting. The ransom requests loaned. The Moroccan government. Sixty two point five million francs a few days later. Yeah. Little we'll hand shaky back scratchy situation there but carrying out of Delhi's orders to meet resolutions demands also proved to be difficult, and he was not going to give up the prisoners until all of those other promises were kept. So a standoff continued with a navy fleet parked in the waters off tangent here in Reisali up in the mountains waiting all that he had requested negotiations continued in an effort to get the brigands to understand the difficulty in carrying out the specifics of his demands, but he was utterly stalwart in his position and Rizal refusal to budge had backed multiple governments into a corner. And he made clear that if anyone were to try to harm him. His men would kill his attackers things started looking up on June nineteenth console gha. Mayor wired a message that are released had been negotiated for the twenty-first. But then that deal was rescinded on the twentieth. Things had reached a breaking point and the United States Britain, and France were all growing, really frustrated with Morocco, which was promising to meet resumes demands. But then failing to take action to actually do it. The US threatened to seize Moroccan customs at the government did not act on all of its promises. And as this whole thing was dragging on the Republican national convention took place in the United States from June twenty-first to twenty third and Roosevelt was wildly popular. And he was certain to get the nomination, but he left nothing to chance. He had no opposition. But he still took every step to ensure that things went smoothly at the convention. And as a consequence the convention was actually considered a rather dull affair on the twenty second telegram, which is now famously quoted as being Roosevelt's words with sent out to the press and to Morocco at the same time, and it read quote this government wants per. Icare alive or dead. This was really secretary of State, John. Hey who had sent this message? The version that went to go mayor and Morocco had an additional line that the version that was sent to the press did not have was quote do not land marines or sees customs without specific instructions. This was meant to galvanize the convention gets sentiment. Squarely behind Roosevelt. Yeah. It was almost like it wasn't good enough that he was going to get the nomination. He wanted everyone to really want him to have it. So he's up that we would look very strong in that would that would get his support. It may have also made ficials in Morocco feel as though decisive action was finally being taken if it were not for the fact that the release a pretty Karras and his stepson Varley had already been secured. By the time. They got this message. They had been traded halfway down a mountain for a bag of Spanish silver dollars after all the dust settled ca mayor was told about pretty carissa citizenship status and the console got a written confession from him yon made the case because he had been born a US citizen. He always felt that he was and so he didn't seek out to reinstate his citizenship situation with his Greek citizenship was kept secret to try to protect Roosevelt, and it only came to light antibiotic written about John. Hey, almost thirty years later in nineteen thirty three EON prodecures moved to England soon after this incident ended and he later wrote of resolutely that he was quote, one of the most interesting in. Hundley hearted native gentlemen, and that he had been treated kindly throughout their capture. And he also went on to advocate for Reisali to be given control of northern Morocco because of his ongoing praise of the man who kidnapped him long after this whole incident was over pretty curious as often characterized as having had Stockholm syndrome, although that term was not actually coined until nineteen Seventy-three. It continues to write about Morocco after he had left giving his opinion on the politics and the cultural complexities of a country that was being ruled largely by outsiders. He died in London in nineteen twenty five and resolutely was given the positions of power that he had asked for after this whole thing and his people were freed from prison, but he was ousted in one thousand nine hundred six due to serious corruption. He was not any better at running things, and the people that he had been trying to overthrow Sultan of della was also deposed in one thousand nine seven and was replaced by his older brother, a book of letters written to Ellen purdah Kerris. During the time that her husband and son were hostages is in the tanger- American legation, which is now a museum and cultural center. Yeah, they're all things that are along the general lines of I saw the news. I am so sorry pleased with committee for you. But it's she has all of these amazing letters from really notable people. So it's kind of an interesting historical record of that moment. Do you also have some listener mail to take out? I do and I am so excited about this particular piece of listener mail. It is from our listener Carey, and she writes, dear Halley in Tracy. I am a huge fan. You ladies keeping company during so many of my daily activities. I can't thank you enough for all the work. You do last February my daughter s to go on a school field trip to the holocaust center of Pittsburgh with a friend to keep it short. It was amazing. We had the opportunity to hear to survivor stories one from a daughter of a survivor and the other from a survivor himself and both are incredible. The center also has a rotating exhibit and at the time was featuring who puts pow superheroes of the holocaust stories of. Standards heroes in survivors told in the form of a comic book, and one of the talented artists was there to talk with the kids, and it just so happened that I had met him a few years earlier during a girl scout field trip at Pittsburgh's tunes. Eum I was so enthralled by this concept. I wanted to share it with you both. So she sent us a signed copy of the collection of comics along with a little press release style print out from the centers website that goes into detail about what it is. These are so amazing. So again, this is the holocaust center of the Jewish Federation of greater Pittsburgh, which put this whole thing together. And it is all of these artists telling the stories of all of these amazing people during the holocaust again, it is called it's pow. So at C H A UT's e dash pow POW, and it is amazing in the art is really lovely. I really liked the art styles in here in these stories are very moving. It's a number of different art styles. Because a lot of different artists worked on it. It's so fantastic. I hope everybody seeks it out because what a great way to examine history and and record it. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you to the very wonderful carry for sharing this with us because I had not heard about it. And now I am in love with it because I love comics as well as history have you like to write to us. You can do. So at history podcast at house works dot com. You can also find us everywhere on social media as missed in history. You can visit our website missed in history dot com, where we have shown oats and episodes going all the way back to the beginning of the show and things that you can click on like that trip to Pearson formation in our our store, and we also hope that you subscribe to the podcast, which you can do on the I heart radio app at apple podcasts or wherever you get through podcasts. For more on this and thousands of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. Hey, everybody. We have a really quick favor to ask as he knew our podcast is supported by advertising. Having ads on the show is what lets us keep the lights on and keep putting this podcast out for free. So from time to time we like to ask our listeners just a few questions that will really help us out in that department. 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Morocco US kidnapping France Britain president Roosevelt US State Department Moroccan government tanger Sultan Adelaziz prodecures France Europe apple Gregory prodecures England Cromwell Varley South Carolina
Ion Perdicaris Pt. 1: The Millionaire and the Outlaw Sharif

Hostage

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Ion Perdicaris Pt. 1: The Millionaire and the Outlaw Sharif

"This episode features discussion of kidnapping and violence that some people may find offensive listener. Discretion is advised may eighteenth nineteen o four. The moment ion pair Takara strode into his servants quarters. He knew use something was wrong. It expected to find the German housekeeper and French. Chef Duke it out. That was usually the source of any screams in their Moroccan rockin villa but instead sixty four year old ion and his Stepson Cromwell Varley saw their servants being held at gunpoint by rifle-toting men in traditional Moroccan attire. Before paired curious realized what was going on his Butler rushed in chased by more armed men the intruders started beating the Butler with their rifles. Tried to stop them. They struck him down to the bound his arms together. Meanwhile forty four year old Cromwell varley fought back against the attackers. The younger man held his Own until his opponents sliced his hand with a knife soon he too was tied up. The gunman marched pair to carry us in Varley out the back back-door rifle barrels pushing them forward as they stepped outside parody. Kerris was stunned. The yard was filled with Moroccans carrying rifles towering above them all was a bearded man in a turban. Sitting astride one of Paris's best horses. Blood ran cold. He recognized the man from the newspapers. They were now at the mercy of Morocco's most notorious outlaws. This is hostage. Apar- cast original every week. We tell the stories behind the most captivating hostage situations situations and the people inside them we will also cover the psychological tactics used in kidnapping situations. And what the human brain does when held captive. I'm Burma Blanco and Carter Roy. You can find episodes of hostage and all other park asked originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream hostage for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type hostage in the search bar. Park cast. Were grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do we love. Let us know how we're I'm doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast in twitter at Parkas network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. You're wherever you're listening. It really does help. This is our first episode on the kidnapping of sixty a four year. Old Greek American millionaire ion pair to Karras and is forty four year old British Stepson Cromwell Farley on May Eighteenth nineteen thousand four pair to Kerris Varley were taken from their estate outside Tange Year Morocco by band of Moroccan rebels led by the infamous. US RELY ON MED RICE ULI in the ensuing weeks. The abduction became an international incident. And one that would quickly escalate to involve the US military and influence both American politics and US European relations as a whole. Today's episode will meet the legendary outlaw. Rice Uli get to know ion pair to Kerris in his family and delve into the volatile political situation of Early Twentieth Century Entry. Morocco will also find out what happened the night period of curious in Varley were kidnapped next week. We'll explore what it was like for Parody Karras and Varley Charlie to be held hostage for weeks in the Moroccan mountains while the American public watched wrapped from their living rooms. And we'll see exactly how how determined Rice Uli was to get what he wanted. No matter the cost at the turn of the twentieth century Morocco was a rarity. The North African nation had managed to retain a measure of independence from European powers at a time when most of the continent was under colonial control however because of Morocco's advantageous trade location occasion most European countries still have their sights on the small coastal nation. For this reason Morocco became a microcosm of European European political tensions with everyone from the French the Germans vying for a foothold. Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean the united it states was monitoring the situation closely though the US wasn't eager to embroil itself in another north African conflict after fighting the barbary wars of the early eighteen. Hundreds a nation also didn't want to lose out on trade opportunities so throughout the nineteenth century Morocco's cities sawn an influx of both European and American citizens they moved into palaces and established communities weaving themselves into the fabric of Local Society of course none of these world powers and foreign transplants. Were especially concerned with what the native Moroccans Iraq ins wanted. The locals had been fighting a losing battle to defend themselves from foreign control for at least a century and their discontent with the country's leadership leadership was growing in eighteen ninety four. A new sultan ascended to the throne a young man named Abdel Aziz. who was far more more interested in the trappings of power than in uniting his country? He liked the modern European way of life and lapped up its influence. Regardless less of the colonialist undertones his people were insulted rivals sprang up to challenge him men who could also lay claim to the throne and who are willing to take a stand for their people. The most prominent of these rebel leaders was a man called me Ahmed Ben Mohammed Rasouli. Suli most of what we know about rice. Uli comes directly from the rebel himself. So it's hard to discern how much is true however are we do know. He was a charismatic leader and a skilled politician who knew how to shape a narrative to suit his goals. Rasouli was fellow Sharif war direct descendent of Muhammad which made him a local nobleman in his home mhm region of northwest Morocco. He was born there in a small village south of ten year between eighteen. Sixty eight and eighteen seventy one as the son of a wealthy and respected family. Rice Uli was raised to be a scholar. He studied law and painting at the University of Tetouan and likely likely would have continued in one of those fields. Had he not found the government so corrupt in the eighteen eighty s teenage rice ULI organized a group of supporters to help position himself as a challenger to the current Sultan Abdelaziz father the young men moved into the hills we are Suli styled himself. There's a Robin Hood figure for years. He stole from the wealthy and helped the poor. He quickly made a name for himself and attracted followers which in turn gained him. Enemies by eighteen. Eighty nine Ri- Saulius popularity caught the sultan's attention. His Highness demanded rice. Uli stopped stopped in order the Bay of ten year essentially the governor of the city to capture him so the bay invited the rebel leader to the city in in order to negotiate a truce between his men and the government forces and race ULI accept it but as soon as he arrived in Tange Year Reis Uli then in his early twenty s was arrested he was thrown into the notorious Torius prison. On the island of Mada doors located off Morocco's Atlantic coast I su- early languish there for five years. He watched men die from starvation and exposure and shared cells with their corpses Sui cast his imprisonment as the will of God and experience. That was faded for him to become the freedom fighter righteous liberator. He was meant to be who was he to survive. When so many many others perished unless the heavens had some greater plan for him in reality however you made it through the help of supporters who smuggled smuggled food and water into his prison cell in eighteen ninety four Riley was finally released when the newly crowned Sultan Abdelaziz L. S. Z's pardon him and other rebel leaders? Rasouli was around twenty five and over joy to be free again but while Rice Suli had been in prison. The Bay obtain Jere had punished the people of his region for supporting the outlawed Sharif. Soldiers had destroyed villages burned fields and even confiscated rice family wealth. Ri- Suli asked the new Sultan to intervene but Aziz refused and so the sheriff decided that he would get justice for himself and revenge. He would free his region from the corrupt rule of the sultans tins regime. No matter the cost now right Suli and his band were more than just Robin Hoods Mary Man. After Rice Elise released they quickly became known as ruthless and dangerous outlaws who would not hesitate to dispense their own version of justice. One story in particular illustrates this special brand of brutality. It happened when Rice uzis sister's husband husband decided to take another younger wife under Islamic law. It was technically permitted for a man to have multiple wives. But Riley's sister was distraught over the idea. She begged her husband not to marry the younger woman. He refused to listen to her so so she took matters into our own hands and complained to her brother. The powerful outlaw Sharif Rice Uli was determined to protect his sister on the night of the wedding Rice Uli and his men stormed into the party but instead of going after his sister's husband the men headed straight to the bridal chamber where the young woman and her mother were waiting Rice Uli and his men slaughtered both the bride ride and her mother from then on. No one in the region dare to cross Ri- Suli though many locals loved and respected back to the Sharif. The rest knew better than to betray him. Even when the Salton attempted to crush the rebels Rice Uli always managed to escape but but he knew he couldn't keep extending his energy on dodging the sultans soldiers. The people needed food and jobs and if he was going to extract real real concessions from the government Rice Uli would need a convincing bargaining chip so with a western loving sultan in power rice. Uli Look to Morocco's many American and European transplants for leverage coming up. We'll we'll find out how the pair to Kerris. Varley family ended up in rice. ooh lease crosshairs. Seems like virtually every anti the per sprint is held hostage by nasty ingredients like aluminum. Parabens talk they'll do what I did and switch to native and aluminum deodorant that doesn't sacrifice on odor and wetness native is full of natural ingredients. That are safe and effective such as coconut oil shea butter and Tapioca Starch Eucalyptus in mint fragrance. I uses a pleasant settle and keeps me dry and fresh all day even through my evening Yoga class. The native makes the wide variety of enticing sense for men and women. If you don't like sense they make an unscented formula got sensitive skin. They have a baking Soda Free Formula Formula Between Their Classic Deodorant San San Limited edition seasonal sense. You'll be sure to find something that works for you. I'm so glad I switched to native. Try It for yourself. There's no risk they even offer free returns and exchanges in the US for twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo code hostage ditch during checkout. That's native deodorant dot com and Promo Code hostage during checkout for twenty percent off your first purchase Carter here. We'll show our crime and mystery can be fun but heartwarming. Not so much on. That's why I'm excited to tell you about a podcast. Original series perfect for animal lovers in history fans alike. Dog Tales tells the true stories of of Harare canines who have gone above and beyond their best friend duties every Monday dog tales embarks on a new journey of courage service service and unwavering sacrifice by our most loyal companions. You'll hear tales of inspiration from all breeds of life like buddy the German and shepherd the world's first seeing I guide dog or Huskies Balto and Togo the sled dogs who made a lifesaving medical delivery from in Anchorage to nome each episode of Dog Tales. His as unique is the pops themselves and short. Bring you closer to the furry friend in your life so so get ready to sit stay and roll over with excitement for par cast endearing series dog tales. Listen to dog tales free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story. Ion Hanford pair to Kerr was born in eighteen. Forty in Athens. The son of the first American console to Greece his his father was a Greek immigrant to the United States where he'd struck it. Rich as an industrialist and married a woman from South Carolina as a result ion grew up rich in spent most of his life jotting around Europe though he studied for a time Harvard and regularly visited his parents in New Jersey repair to care is generally really avoided the US he preferred studying arts in Paris. Wintering on the Mediterranean and exploring the Great European capitals. The young ARISTOCRAT had dreams of being an artist and writer and even got involved in the supernatural Victorian spiritualist movement in a search for higher. You're meaning when the American civil war broke out in eighteen sixty one. twenty-one year old pair to Kerris was appalled to be conscripted to fight for South Carolina in the confederate army. Not only was he unwilling to give up his European lifestyle but the culture paired Karras also sided with the abolitionists so he simply applied for Greek citizenship and renounced his American nationality successfully avoiding the draft but soon circumstances sent him back to the US in the late eighteen sixty's parody kerris became friends. The British engineer Cromwell Fleetwood Varley and unfortunately for Varley paradox would also become close to the engineer's wife l. l. him so much so that by eighteen seventy three thirty six year old Alan had divorced. Her husband married the thirty-three-year-old pair to Kerris and moved moved with him and her four children to New Jersey A decade later in eighteen eighty four parody KARRAS and his new family had moved back across the Atlantic Ocean this time to tangent Morocco. When he settled in Tange Year appeared Medicare's used his fortune to buy property and develop the city and surrounding area? He also helped. Establish the Tanveer Hygienic Commission and Urban Regeneration Project that made him a powerful figure in both local politics and Moroccan high-society hairy loved living in Morocco. He enjoyed the weather and the vibrant culture of the city and despite his colonialist perspective he even learned Arabic but more than anything perte already cares reveled. In the fact that in Tanger- he could be a big fish in a small pond in his book. Prospero and Caliban the Psychology College of Colonization octave Montigny suggests that this inclination is exactly why someone like to Kerris would be a colonialist modern as experience and research indicate that individuals who thrive in colonial communities often feel inferior in the capitalist cultures. They grew up in a colonial society. Elevates them to the position of a respected benefactor a role they feel they deserve as the child of an immigrant current and Basseterre with dual nationalities parody. Kerris had never felt entirely at home anywhere. He'd always lived off his parents money and never succeeded in his dreams of being an artist he'd spent his life searching for meaning and purpose and feeling as though he had something to prove tange year was the first place where he felt appreciated and respected. Perhaps his contentment with his position in Morocco is why Peres chose is to overlook. The turbulent politics around him he didn't want to consider that his life in Tangier could be threatened. He told himself that as an American he was agnostic about the European powers vying for control and would happily do business with whoever was running Morocco and for twenty years. That's exactly what Paris and his family did. But by the early nineteen hundreds rids. The political situation in his adopted country was becoming more dangerous. The young Moroccan Sultan Abdelaziz was caught between tween holding off western powers with colonial intentions and fighting down. Local revolts from the popular rebel leader. Moulaye Ahmed Rasouli to top it off discontent. Among his people was growing the North African country had turned into a virtual tinderbox greek-american millionaire ion pair to Kerris watch the unrest from his home in tange year with the comfortable distance of a wealthy colonialist for decades his American heritage had insulated him from both the European and Moroccan dramas but things were changing both in Morocco and the world world large. The first sign of trouble was in September. Nineteen a one one one an American missionary named Ellen Stone was kidnapped in Macedonia north of Greece. Her Macedonian captors demanded a ransom of one hundred and ten thousand dollars more than three point three million today much to everyone's surprise a public collection in the. US managed wants to raise a sizable portion of the money and Allen was released. Her captors gave much of the ransom to the Macedonian. People in a move to galvanize is public support. The incident captured the international imagination for parody Kerris now in his sixties the kidnapping hit unexpectedly. tiddly close to home. His father grew up near Macedonia before immigrating to the US parody Kerris later said that he'd heard stories of the bandits Vince in the area who held hostages for ransom. But I wasn't the only one who heard about the high profile kidnapping Rice Uli who is waging at years-long campaign against the sultan's troops had been following the ellen stone hostage situation as well right. Suli took note. The handsome price paid for the American woman. He could use that kind of money and he was especially impressed by the attention. The story had gotten if his cause had that kind of visibility he might be able to effect real change in Morocco by nineteen o three rice. Uli was in his mid thirties and nearly a decade and a half into his revolt. Despite his popularity they gained little ground in their campaign against the sultan something about to change and so one day after a battle against the sultan's I troops rice. Elise men kidnapped a reporter. WHO's been covering the conflict English journalist? Walter B Harris would provide the rebels. Apple's much needed leverage Harris was their first European hostage and if he was strategic about his ransom demands Rice Uli believed he could gain international attention. Inspect on this in turn would pressure the Salton into giving him what he wanted. The release of several men rotting in the sultan's prison so Ri- Suli informed the Sultan about his English captive and promised to kill the journalist if his demands were not met. The incident made international news. Suddenly the foreign press was gushing about the noble freedom freedom-fighter who stood up against a corrupt government and at home rice. Uli only became more popular as expected. Britain pressured the Salton Salton to secure Harris's release after three weeks. The journalist was exchanged for sixteen of rice. Uzis men who the Sultan had imprisoned however Walter Harris had a different perspective from the popular international narrative the captive journalists claimed that while Rice Uli he was a generous host. The sharieff had little control over his kidnapping. You considered rice. Uli more of a traditional highway robber who profited from from civil unrest than a noble Cherie fighting for his people his men were violent. Brigands who Harris was sure would have killed the journalist if given the opportunity unity but that story didn't fit as nicely with the image of Rice Uli as a Robin Hood Style. Revolutionary and despite Harris's account Saulius popularity with still on the rise even the European and American residents in Morocco admired him on like the Sultan Right Suli was powerful and effective standing up for his people and doing whatever it took to protect his men. It was a narrative perfectly tailored to captivate an American like Paradise Carris who loved the idea of a freedom fighter. It's a classic case of rooting for the underdog. According to the research of social psychologists Joseph Vendela Nadav Gold Schmead and David Richards people are naturally naturally invested in the idea of justice and thus are more likely to be sympathetic towards those who seemed to be unfairly disadvantaged intentionally personally you're not rice cultivated the image of a regular guy striving against a corrupt system. But what these European and American residents in Morocco didn't realize was that the success of Harris's ransom had turned rice is on them are British. Journalists had gotten attention from the sultan in a way that years of fighting hadn't and instead of being vilified for the crime lead been celebrated and idealized while Harris's kidnapping had been an accident rice. Uli wasn't going to wait for another European to simply come along. He would use what he'd he'd learned to devise the perfect ransom strategy. Well this time he would be prepared. He would come up with his list of concessions in advance Vance and find a hostage to match them and after fifteen years had plenty of demands right silly knew he needed to kidnaps someone important and influential someone high profile enough that they're kidnapping would gain an unprecedented amount of attention and press someone who's government wouldn't allow them to die at the hands of Moroccan outlaws a government that wouldn't hesitate to pressure the sultan though there's no proof that Ri- Suli thought about the barbary wars. He was an educated man who doubt had heard about America's involvement he would have known that the US had gone to war with North African governments over its refusal to pay pirate kidnapping ransoms. As a man conscious of politics and world affairs. He would also have known that. Teddy Roosevelt was a president who wasn't afraid to use military force on the international stage. wjr was sure that Roosevelt wouldn't ignore a threat to a prominent American citizen and closer to home rice. Uli No no doubt knew of Ion Harris the two men had both lived in the Tanger- area for the last twenty years and were two of the region's most prominent prominent residents. Some scholars have suggested that Rice Suli impaired a carris may of even met not only did pare. daycares tick off all the boxes. Fox's Ri- Suli needed but he also openly admired rice ULI and his cause and there's no doubt that rice ULI new vis to bud on four pair to Kerris the romantic ideal of a freedom fighter was about to crash into the much more dangerous and brutal reality. audie coming up. We'll find out what happened. When parody Kerris encountered Rice Uli Lee and his band of dangerous outlaws now back to the story on May Sixteenth nineteen four sixty four year old I on parody Kerris and his family left the city of ten jere for their summer? Home it's five miles west of the city. The house was a European style mansion and former royal residence really Donia has. The estate was known sat on a lush hilltop overlooking. The sea emits three hundred acres of manicured gardens. If it wasn't for the monkeys and in tropical foliage the estate could have been any grand home and the American northeast apparently is loved it ion and his sixty seven in year old wife Ellen. Perte Kerris brought along Ellen's oldest son forty four year old cromwell Oliver Varley and his wife and daughters from despite Bite the recent turmoil across Morocco family wasn't concerned about leaving the safety of the city. The Perez has had lived in Tangier for decades. They were confident and Ion Peres's position as a respected member of the community and took comfort in the fact that the family head maintained positive relationships chips with the locals. The instability was a Moroccan conflict. And all the fighting was happening between Moroccans. Foreigners had nothing to worry worry about. Everyone knew that Walter Harris's kidnapping the year before was an anomaly and they were wrong On the evening of May Eighteenth two days. After arriving at the Pierre Cares Farley. Family was settling into their stay ellen and ion had always been big entertainers but as they were getting older. They especially enjoyed having their family around both had found on their health declining in recent years so they cherished every moment ellen's children and grandchildren after a formal dinner. The whole Oh family retired to the drawing room there. The windows were open letting in a cool breeze on the air they relaxed and chatted making plans the rest of their state. Suddenly they heard screaming from the servant's quarters it startled them but parody Karasin Ellen assured assured the others that it was probably nothing to worry about the French chef and the German housekeeper had a long running feud that had a tendency to boil over into shouted insults and the occasional physical altercation paradox has told the others he'd be back in a moment after he dealt with combatants. The aging patriarch set off to the other side of the house. Trailed by his Stepson Cromwell. Who figured he could intervene in a fight if necessary a as the to approach the servants quarters the German Butler hurdled pass them running the opposite direction? Perte Kerris smile to himself amused clearly. The French were beating the Germans this evening but as soon as he and Varley stepped into the room the smile disappeared from Ferris's face. He didn't see the chef and housekeeper at all instead he saw a handful of his servants and a number of guards he didn't recognize parody cares presumed. They had also come in to help. Manage the scuffle and then it it dawned on him. The men and Moroccan dress carrying rifles weren't his cards at all and their rifles were trained on his servants Before pair to Karras had time to comprehend the Butler burst back into the room chased by several more armed men as they started to beat him with their guns parody. Kerris jumped to stop them but the older man was no match. The attackers turned on him with the butts of their rifles. Within seconds rebound paired cares his hands rendering him useless. By now all hell had broken loose the housekeeper burst into the room pursued by the intruders. They hit her in the head knocking her out cold. Barley entered the fray holding his own against the attackers curse until one of them sliced his hand with a knife. Another knocked him to the floor tied him up to with both men restrained find. The attackers turned on the servants holding them at gunpoint until they backed out of the way. Then they marched pair to Karras and Varley out the back door door and into the yard rifle barrels boring into their backs. The two men had no choice but to obey their only hope they realized realized was the fact that their attackers hadn't yet killed anyone. So perhaps they didn't intend to if they were bandits. Pair to Kerris would happily give give them whatever they wanted. As long as no one else was hurt as soon as they stepped outside hair to Kerris realized allies just how big the operation was. The area was full of rifle-toting Moroccan men some on horseback others holding his guards and staff at gunpoint. A few of his servants who were themselves locals were imploring the gang to leave chastising them for attacking and then hair care saw a large bearded man wearing a turban sitting astride one of two carresses most prized horses. It was clear he was in charge. According to parody carresses account he saw the man dramatically raised his hand like a performer on stage and proclaim. I am rice. Uli though rice. Uli Of course parody cares had already guest as much. Little Torius outlaw and rebel leader was the only person Morocco who attempt to attack a foreigner of his power and influence on one hand hand parody. Kerris was relieved. BRYCE ULI now in his mid thirties was known to fight for political causes so it seemed unlikely that he would order his men to kill the residents Avila Danica but on the other hand the fact that the raid was led by Moroccan revolutionary. Meant this was not just chest. A burglary as intimidated as he was paired at Kerris was also a romantic. He'd heard stories about rice. Uli in believed you've told heartedly in the narrative of the younger man as a freedom fighter and Robin Hood figure so when Rice Uli told parody Kerris and Varley that he would not hurt them as long as they came with him peacefully parody. Curious not only trusted. The sharieff outlaw but readily agreed to his demands. Bryce Suli declared that if all went according to plan they would be safely returned to their family in a few weeks without incident parody Kerris. I believe the kidnapping had little to do with him. And Varley as long as the outlaw. Got What he wanted from the government. Payer Kerris trusted they would be safe. He was certain he could take rice. At his word parody. Kerris was naive an equally self aggrandizing leading him to act exactly as kidnapping napping in hostage. Experts advise according to a hostage negotiator specialist at the British firm Athena intelligence a hostages. Best chance of of survival is to be passively cooperative. Without being week a victim who's too aggressive or too submissive however is more likely to be hurt or taking advantage of essentially it's best to be compliant but not antagonistic. When parody Kerris realized that he the environment had no choice but to go with Selena's men he dramatically increase their chances of survival is only request was that they not be forced forced out into the wilderness? Without proper tire it was the perfect example of being compliant but not fully submissive. Right silly agreed. This request seemed reasonable. But he wasn't about to let his valuable captives out of sight so he ordered one of parody carresses servants to fetch the closed for them but as the minutes ticked by Ri- soothing became nervous. He wanted to get his captives onto the road as soon as possible before the authorities authorities in Tangier were notified and so when the servant didn't immediately return. He ordered another to get the close. What by Suli didn't know no was that the first servant had been waylaid when he stopped to help an injured ellen parody Kerris neither she nor any of the Varley women had any idea what was happening outside? After the men disappeared the servants quarters. The women waited in the drawing room when I on environment hadn't come back after several minutes. Allen became concerned so she decided to follow them. This 67-year-old matriarch set off down the hall with the younger women following behind her but as soon as they reached the main servants hall they regretted their curiosity not the rebels. Keeping their servants at gunpoint refused to let them pass when Allen using all her English imperiousness tried to push her way through. One of the outlaws pushed her down a set of stone stairs and a moment later. Her daughter-in-law was thrown down after her. Some some of the unbound servants hurry to help the women up and brought them to an adjoining room where they could sit down Ellen. who was already in frail health? I had hurt herself in the fall but she was far more worried about her husband and son imploring someone to go for help well. Everyone was distracted. Distracted by the mayhem one of the servants ran for the telephone and manage to place a call to the police in Tan Year. She was barely able to tell them about the attack. PAC before one of the attackers saw her and pulled her away from the phone. Ellen and the Varley ladies retreated to the house's Front Hall hoping to get Outside through the front door there they ran into the first servant who'd been sent inside to get closed for the captives when they saw him the women in demanded to know what was going on thinking on his feet. The man decided that it was crucial that the women not go outside period pair Takara. Sandra Suli seemed of come to an agreement and no one had been killed. But he didn't doubt that Rice Uzis men would kill anyone who stood in their way and he knew there was no world in which Ellen Peres would allow her husband and son to be taken captive by a notorious outlaw and so instead of telling in her the specifics the man said that parody Kerris new the leader of these outlaws and had worked with him in the past so they were sorting out a deal all that if anyone disturbed them the outlaws men would kill the entire household on whether or not Ellen believed him she agreed to stay inside and and so they waited. Sure that Peres and Varley would come back soon to explain what was happening outside rice. Uli grew anxious and impatient as soon as the second servant returned with Ion Darley's traveling gear the sheriff. Hurry their hostages onto horses. He didn't even give them time time to put on their boots perhaps because he was younger and more likely to try to make a break for it. Rasouli men ordered Varley onto a mule but if they let pedicurist chooses own horse the older man opted for one of his young energetic horses. Hoping could last the long trip however parody Kerris didn't get to choose the saddle. They put on the Horse. When band at first arrived? The men working in the stables had assumed they. We're being robbed. They live the bandits telling them that all they had were old rotten saddles and so- parody. Kerris climbed onto a spirited horse course wearing a saddle no longer fit for use. The sixty four year old had no idea of the trouble it was going to cause him just as the men were about to leave. The first servant ran back outside the offered to go with them allowing himself to be taken hostage with his bosses. Rice ilise surprisingly agreed to this unusual show of loyalty as far was he was concerned allowing Paerson Varley to bring one of their servants would only make them more comfortable during their captivity. He wanted to ensure his captives did had no reason to attempt escape. Finally they set off into the night as they rode West away away from Tangier Paired Kerris recognize the scenery but that soon fell away in favor of areas he would normally avoid after some time. Apparently carris realized they had entirely circled Tanger- and we're heading east into mountainous wilderness in an area that neither he nor Varley new at all after a few hours Varley asked his stepfather a father. What he thought was going to happen to them if they could in fact trust Suli here to Kerris self-assured replied that the only danger? It would be if there was trouble with a ransom payment then the sheriff might leave them to his men but heard that Suli was an educated man in a freedom. Get them fighter. He believed they'd be safe as long as he was around. Varley looked around at the armed men escorting them. In that moment his blood ran cold. Rice Suli was nowhere to be seen. They were alone in the middle of the Wilderness at the mercy of Brigand Oregon of notorious Moroccan bandits. If something went wrong or I certainly didn't come back soon. He had no doubt. These men wouldn't tate to kill them next week. We'll find out what happened to pair to carry us and Varley as as they spent weeks at the mercy of Rice Uzis men and we'll delve into the international incident created by their kidnapping as Ri- Saulius demands prompted prompted President Roosevelt to mobilize the US Navy Thanks again for tuning into hostage. We'll be back next Thursday with a new episode. You can find more episodes of hostage and all other park has two originals for free On spotify not only does spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like hostage for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream hostage on spotify just opened the APP tap browse type hostage in the search bar and don't forget to follow follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at par cast network. We'll see you next time. In the meantime don't take your freedom. For granted hostage was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Enron Cutler. Sound design by Brian Ghaleb with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Joel Stein and Carly Madden this episode of hostages written by Kate Forman and stars Irma Blanco and Carter Roy. Hello our most loyal companions are now the subject of a fantastic tastic. podcast original series called Dog Tales. Every Monday dog tales shares inspirational true stories of courage service and unwavering bring sacrificed by our four legged. Canine friends search for dog tales in the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Sharif Rice Uli Cromwell Fleetwood Varley Perte Kerris Morocco kidnapping Rice Uli US Bryce Suli Kerris Tanger spotify ULI Ahmed Ben Mohammed Rasouli Robin Hood Paris Walter B Harris Varley Rice Uzis Carter Roy Karasin Ellen
Target USA  Episode 164: Exercise African Lion 2019

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Target USA Episode 164: Exercise African Lion 2019

"From podcast one coming up in this episode of target USA. Agadir's morocco. And what you hear behind me as a Moroccan military, h forty seven helicopter. It's called Chinook and the US on this episode. You're going to hear why the US military and those of six other nations got together here to conduct something called exercise African lion. Twenty nineteen general Roger clue DA commanding general of US army Africa breaks down what happened and why and what it means for the future of the US military. This is a multinational exercise balls about eight. Partner nations, both partners and allies African partners and European allies. We also go off to remote field locations to observe parts of the exercise. I the tenant Wilson Meyer. I am I tune later for patchy troop once Cavs second brigade combat team hundred first airborne division, air salt. I'm down here, Morocco conducting platoon life exercises. What it's not all about military maneuver. There's a humanitarian component to this exercise. So we have a gentleman who shows up, and he has a huge system his leg. He can't wear pants. He can't work. He can't provide for his family. Wait until you hear what happened to him at this field hospital that and more coming up on this episode of target USA NASA security. From WTO in Washington DC. This is target USA. Russia could render huge arm to this country North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States dangerous. Terraced DC is repeatedly mentioned someplace they would like to see an attack cyber criminals. Successful. America as a target on its back and on this program. We investigate the threats the people behind them, the agencies fighting them and the impact on you. This is target USA be national security podcast. I'm Jay Jay green eleven hundred US troops and more than a thousand from Morocco and six other nations or here in Morocco. The see how well vacant work together to solve some very complex fictitious, but complex problems that all relate back to violent, extremism and instability. And by the way, this is designed to make sure that if needed in the future, they can all work together as a joint command so interoperability is the main objective, but as the commanding general of US army Africa, Major General Roger clued, he told me when we sat down and by the way, US REI Africa is taking over as the lead coordinator for this next year. There's a lot more to the scenario. There's relationships political sensitivities and there are people's lives hanging in the balance. JJ let me give a little context. This is the sixteenth year of African lion. The United States Marine corps is kind of in the lead element for the past fifteen years, and this is a transition year. US army Africa is going to become the lead planner and the lead sponsor of the exercise starting next year. So this was kind of a transition year for us. So the role were playing here is we're going to be the coordinating element the element that that brings the exercise together that works with the host nations to plan the scenario and bring forces to bear on to train exercise. Exercise was also an opportunity for US army Africa to try out some new things morning, Lieutenant Colonel Mattie Browns of US. Army? Africa's early entry command post we provided any capability US army Africa and US Africa command as one of the only dozen dated joint task force capable headquarters. We'd fight early entry on a continent and teams of of three three personnel up to two hundred personnel. And we. Mission. Command command control for foreign humanitarian assistance operations limited interventions new operations, basically anything nation needs to do to assist our partners here on the African continent. And clearly explained that's not the only thing they brought down for the exercise. I heavy deployable joint task force headquarters that I brought down here and show my headquarters serving as the combined joint test force headquarters for the oval operation, and then underneath us. We have component headquarters. Both the land component the air component and the naval component. And so we're providing that overarching command and control and allowing the subordinate components to exercise in their respective domains. Why is the exercise always in Morocco? Well, historically been that way for the past fifteen years. This is kind of weird started on the exercise started as a bilateral exercise between the United States and Morocco, and it kind of morphed over the years now when includes heavy participation by the Utah national guard, Morocco state partnership program, we have one seven five Cav. We have our regionally aligned forces here some able forces some air force forces out of on aware base. But it started off as a bilateral exercise between the United States Morocco three years ago to nesia became part of the package, and then overtime more and more allied nations. I have started to participate. One would ask most people have asked me why is this being located in academia this year? Is there any overarching or compelling reason why the exercises here this year? Well angers in the southern zone who ten jail Furuya southern zone commander. There's great training venues ranges maneuver space down here in what would the Moroccans called the southern zone. So it's just it's supports the exercise. Well, there's great training facilities on allows us to to get after the training objectives that we wanna get after. What would you say to the layperson who asked what you're trying to accomplish here in these exercises with all of the partners all the countries here JJ, there's an old African proverb that says if you want to travel fast travel alone, if you wanna travel far travel together, and this is about traveling far. This is about strengthening our partner networks, both African partner networks and our allies. And this is about. Training with the Moroccans on so that they developed capac- and they become net exporters of security and the objective. According to clue DA was for the US end its partners to travel together. And one of those partners is the United Kingdom's military. My name's captain Thomas jetty icon team within the UK, specialized infantry, we deploy around the world's working with on forces to try and build custody in key areas. Hidden Tiffany today. We've just finished the fun excise of African line nineteen. Team five might team have been working with American on alongside the hosts for BRCA train against countering. Vaunted extremists organizations to threat faced us fix was in Enuma success fulling on the back of some very productive training of the six days. And with before it's a continuing these friendships into next iteration that interview with captain jelly took place the day before we sat down with general clue and he talked about the importance of next year and the future. So which show yesterday was Moroccan forces Tunisian forces forces from the from the UK and US forces all training again. What that does it strengthens the relationships and were we want to work on the relationship before we need the relationship. So this is an enduring partnerships overtime that increase our partner capacity and increase or ability to operate in joint and coalition environment. So again, we wanna travel far. So we wanna travel together. John Kennedy said something to that effect about repairing the roof or building before you need it to number of people have said that. And that's absolutely correct working on a relationship before you need. How would you assess what you've been able to accomplish? So far this exercise. Well, our partial, you know, our relationship with the nations that are participating African line is strong. They're all strong nations. You case here candidates here. Santa glazier here. Spain is here. A Francis here, Morocco, Tunisia. So a lot of great strong partnerships again this exercises. This is the sixteenth year that has been ongoing so. The relationships are very very strong. So so I'm really happy about what we're doing. Here Morocco is is very strong capable partner on the connett show is to nesia, and they're kind of the two cornerstones of African lion. So I think we've accomplished a lot. And again, you know, the most important takeaway, we've done great training. We've done great interoperability. We've all aren't a lot. But as you walk around the training site, you see American soldiers standing shoulder to shoulder with Moroccan, Tunisian counterparts forming those relationships and somewhere down the road, they're going to need each other. And that's what's important. You made very interesting adage one of the days, we've been here regarding the young lieutenants that are training together from the different nations and continuing through their careers. Becoming generals and realizing the value of their relationships that started so many years ago. But you remind us what that adages. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we were talking, and, you know, so the lieutenants that are on the ground today training with their Moroccan Tunisian UK French counterparts one day, they're going to be generals. And we don't know what is going to bring him. We don't know where we're gonna find ourselves ten or fifteen years from now and one day in a place for away. The none of us have even thought about yet that Lieutenant will one day be a general and he's going to look across. You know, the table, and he's going to see someone that he trained with fifteen or twenty years before and that relationship and that sheared bond that shared experience will help them move forward together. General I've heard that same ad is applied to the the bad people that are out there. The the young gunrunners the young terror acolytes, the young weapons dealers out there and someday they will look back and realize they they've made relationships, and then they will use their relationship to build on to call on call in favors, etc. So I'm amended the understanding that this exercise in large part is designed to stay ahead of these organizations and stay ahead of those people and they're thinking as well. So when thinking very much like, you are what is the advantage that you have over them. Well, I mean, let let's talk about the humanitarian assistance exercise, we went out. And so yesterday, so ten thousand cases have been seen over period about eight thousand individual patients in about ten thousand separate cases. A lot of young children were seeing who received glasses for the first time cataracts were removed. I mean, I think you saw on the activities that wrong going. They will remember that. And they will remember that the United States was here. And this is what the United States did for us. And so that's important in our young soldiers, sailors, airmen marines that are out there. Those are in Bassett ours for the United States of America. And so that's what we're trying to do. The United States is is an enduring partner that is a friend for life, and once you're friends with the United States, we're not going anywhere. So let's talk. Excuse me. Let's talk a few minutes about the threats that are out there. And then we'll maybe talk a little bit more about some of the other elements that took place or taking place along the course of this exercise. There is fictitious organization CV or VO. There's a this. This whole thing is based in part on a fictitious VO called IFI talk to us about how that threat in the scenario mirrors reality. Well, you know, if you look across Africa, there's a lot of challenges on Africa's facing high unemployment rate youth, bulge ungoverned spaces that provides a lot of opportunity for competing ideologies or competing, you know. Systems that would draw people in and so in in the scenario. Were trying to portray an enemy that's competing for the people. You know in a in a counterinsurgency situation that people are the price. Right. And the enemy is a fish. That's wins in the sea of the people. And so that's what the competition for. And so we tried to depict in. This scenario is a the uninsured in organization that's trying to operate in. And among the people what we're trying to train on those core competencies that allow the host nation forces to do things like humanitarian assistance to demonstrate their commitment to the people their commitment to good governance. And one of the things we say is. In in a situation. Like, we're painting in his exercise when the military shows up to the people run towards the military or do they run away from the military? We're trying to do is make sure that people run towards the military. And as a matter of fact, there was a humanitarian effort underway during the exercise. It was a massive field hospital operation set up in an area very much like a desert in a place called Totta. I'm Lieutenant Colonel Paul Anderson with the Utah Air National Guard or here in Totta Morocco, providing a humanitarian service to the people in this region. I work in the dental section where we mainly provide extractions fillings, and if you cleanings we're also doing some training for our service members here in Morocco, and my religion -joyed being here and appreciate the opportunity to have come. And there was. A lot more going on than just routine dental and medical procedures. Let me tell you story. Colonel Matthew bird also of the Utah Air National Guard. So we have a gentleman who shows up, and he has a huge system his leg. He can't wear pants. He can't work. He can't provide for his family. So we see him. We take him back the operating room real to remove the cyst, the large surgeons of scene, it's twenty year types, this you just never see this. You get that big. He's he's got he's got he'd had a rope tied around his leg holding it in place. When shows up we take that out his life has changed forever. He can provide for family he can work. He can be everything that he wants to be in life, and is because these simple things that we're able to do we're taking care of people. And speaking people how many folks would you estimate you've seen so far? So we've seen over eleven thousand and that's over a nine day period African lion. Twenty nineteen had some very lofty goals including improving robber, ability, and mutual understanding of African partner nations tactics techniques and procedures it also was designed to test out some activities involving the US military's capabilities. But one of the loftiest and sim. Split of objectives. At the same time for exercise African lion was simply sharing knowledge talked to us about the importance of not being no at all. It's really important. So a lot of times people will come into a situation. Like this and say, this is what I think we ought to do. And they missed the point the point is we'll have a commander say what you wanna do. What do you think as the host nation and our partners? Here are very capable. I mean, you saw the aircraft that were flying yesterday. You saw the combined trainee exercise, we did that was US UK Tunisians Moroccans altogether. You really couldn't tell one from the other. So. Or allies and our partners here. They've got a lot to share. And will we stress with our soldiers as you're going to learn as much as you're going to teach. And so you know, we got to ears and one mouth. So we probably ought to listen twice as much as we talk and sometimes listening is more important than talking banks to general Clooney's generosity of his time and understanding of media needs. I was able to observe very closely. Exactly, what was going on even hear the conversations that he was having with the inner circle during exercise African lion. Twenty nineteen. We think this will help you when you go back to Spain or good. Hold on. One of the conversations you're having with your counterparts here. You have been a number of briefings that have been privileged to attend. And I I see you observing and listening to your your staff brief you on what's going on what kinds of little conversations going on between the u join the course of these briefings kinds of things are you thinking in talking about. Well, we talk a lot about vision for next year. So this is a transition year for us. We're talking a lot about where we wanna go. And I talk a lot with them about what are your training objectives? We want to train on our core. Competencies and make sure that we we hone our were fighting skills. But what do they want to train on? So Lieutenant John Furuta southern zone commander. He's got a vision. He's got some objectives. And so we have a lot of discussions about. How do we bring our visions together? I think we're both. In in very strong agreement on where we wanted to go next. And then there's a lot of just relationship building. There's just talking about families talking about hopes and dreams and futures. And and just talking. There were a lot of situations where the leadership from the nations represented were sitting and drinking Moroccan, tea and eating Moroccan delicacies small talk and big talk in the process while they were continuing to build their relationships strengthen their bonds and also formulate their plans for the future. What would you say is been the most encouraging part of this exercise to you? You know, when I go out, and and I see those young soldiers, you know, regardless of what uniform they're wearing. We were every single soldier. I've talked to since I've been your sailor airman. Oh, marinas matter of fact, is talking about how much they have learned. And what a unique experience this has been for them. I met a young eighteen year old airman first time been in the air force. I think just over eighteen months, and now she's in Morocco, and she's out in the desert, doing humanitarian assistance mission tears in as she describes a woman that hasn't seen twelve years. All of a sudden can see the young soldier out of four Campbell who's been in the army less than two years. And he said sure I never even dreamed. I would come to Morocco, and it's been such an awesome experience to share what I know and Alern from our Moroccan counterparts. That's encouraging because our soldiers sailors, airmen, marines, get it. They understand what this is all about. And speaking of that young soldier from Fort Campbell. My name is first tenant Wilson Meyer. I am I with tune later for patchy troop once I'm five Cavs second brigade combat team hundred first airborne division, air salt. I'm down here, Morocco conducting platoon life are exercises. Just before this. My platoon was training Moroccan forces with the help of other British forces out of employees all of our direct fire weapon systems. It's important down here because it showing all of my soldiers that rock and forces allied counterparts are competent confident and just as lethal as we are. And another key equally important group that was represented at the exercise was women and Steph sergeant Christine Miller from the Colorado Air National Guard. I'm currently in the pediatric tent here in Morocco. We see Pete's from age birth from birth to age fifteen around or the Nathen go, see our doctors. Here in this tent where super important because we are building our Moroccan counterparts. And as I'm not a Pedes nurse by trade. But I'm able to learn the different things for pediatrics or so different than adult general Clooney, a and I spent a lot of time talking about success, but I had to ask him about failures as well. The downside negatives. I mean, we don't like to talk about them, but the always exist, and I would be remiss if I didn't ask you to characterize the challenges that you and even the exercise the US all of its partners face. I mean, there's challenges associated with bringing, you know, eight different nations. Together. There's language barriers. We we have different quip men. We have different techniques that we use. But it's really their challenges, but their challenges that we worked through. And that's really, you know, why this exercise import does this about interoperability and understood. Banding where our partners allies you're coming from and thinking through the challenges that we might face on a battlefield somewhere in the future and working through them in training environment. Where if you don't get it, right? No one gets hurt. And so we want to figure all that out now. So we don't have to figure it out in the future. Why should Americans care? What you know Morocco is a strategic partner, this is a strategic relationship the Moroccans, for example, in the Tunisians have become net exporters of security, so stable strong nations that our allies importers with the United states' matter on the geographic location of this areas important as or other countries in Africa Africa, self important by twenty fifty forty percent of the world's population growth is going to occur on the African continent. It's going to be inexcessive two billion people. It's a strong economic engine. There's lots of natural resources here. Geographically, it's important. And in that context, we have to be involved here. We have to be engaged in Africa it because if we're not engaged than other countries being gauged. I won't go into the details of that. Because I know that's very political. But it is very clear and very obvious. That's taking place. Now. It's not something that may happen down the road. But there have been other intern or other international other, quote, unquote, great powers that have shown great interest in Africa. And this exercise seems to me to be sending a message is that right? Well, it shows the capability of our partners, it shows highlights relationship, and in highlights, you know, our ability to operate together to project combat power deploy forces conducted training event and shows that we have strong relationships whether allies importance in the region, you know, and I think that's an important message to send in the rest of the world. She's the imports of Africa too. And everybody understands what's going on west thing than. What message would you like to leave for not just the American people, but anybody and everybody that's listening to our program. I, you know, I think what's really important. You know is for the folks back home to understand is right now out in the Moroccan desert in the Tunisian desert. There are great young Americans. Army air force navy marines interagency partners that are on the cutting edge of America's diplomacy. They are out here making a difference. They're training hard other doing great things. And I think the folks back home should be really proud of these great young Americans and what they're doing when I'm out there. Watching them train, I'm filled with hope filled with hope for for our country filled with hope for where we're going, and I feel really confident that our nation's in good hands because we got great young people at here. Great things. Major General Roger clue this was the sixteenth year of African line. And this being the first time that I've observed it I can honestly say in the absence of previous experience covering this event. The opportunity to listen in as the senior military leaders from the countries involved talked helped me understand and envision what they were trying to accomplish. And here's the bottom line. Africa is a big beautiful promising talented continent, but it's got some major problems with corruption violent extremism, human and drug trafficking, poverty and terrorism and a lot of wide open spaces for them to plot. And plan all of those problems are the same that we have on every other continent in the world, even in the US and those problems don't just stop at the border of a country ISIS in Iraq and Syria is a perfect example. They infect other countries. And territories. So it makes perfect sense to me that African lions attempt to bring all of these countries all of these military doctrines all these tactics and concepts together in a joint space. The fight problems. Together is absolutely what the doctor ordered. So that's it for this edition of target USA. And as always I'm deeply grateful that you decided to allow me an opportunity to talk to you for a little while. Thank you for your support. And please I would like to ask if you would subscribe to our podcast. Also, we have a new item that you will probably find of interest as well. It's called inside the skiff, please subscribe to that newsletter. It's all about things like what we've just talked about. And you can do it at WTO p dot com slash alerts. That's whiskey Tango. Oscar Papa WTO p dot com slash alerts. Also, if you have any questions or comments or thoughts, you wanna share be an Email the letter j the color green that's one word at WTO p dot com. That's J green at WTO p dot com. Tom. Also, please follow us on Twitter at t- USA podcast. That's tango. Uniform Sierra alpha podcast and coming up on our next program is going to be something related to terrorism national security and our Kizza hostile nation states. You name it if it's national security or until it's you'll find out about it right here. I'm Jay Jay green. And this is target USA the Naseem security hot cast, if you like my show, you're going to love blunt force truth on podcast, one EMMY winning game show legend Chuck Woolery joins forces with polymath and serial entrepreneur, Mark young to tackle the toughest issues of the day, setting aside, the political rhetoric in laying out the truth using science, research and hard facts. Download new episodes of blood. Force truth every week on podcast one. Now, stay tuned for the latest headlines from the Associated Press.

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Podcast #278 - Guess That Craft

Jenna & Julien Podcast

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

Podcast #278 - Guess That Craft

"Dick Dick Think welcome back to the impact that. Upcoming. Welcome, no, you welcome back. Reverse No. No me. To do no, no. Thank you, everyone for welcoming me back to the podcast. I'm so glad to return. No, no, no, no me. Come back to the PODCAST. Okay, thank you, you were. Cool scrunchy you got. You. What cool? Buying clothes for up to ninety percent off with red. segue on me while my goodness. You guys start shopping at threat up is the world's largest online thrift store with up ninety percent of estimated retail price. To Thread Up T. H. R. E.. D. U. P. dot com slash Julian and with all you get an extra thirty percent off your order that's on top of the discounts already getting on the website also if you have little minions that walk around on all fours. I'm talking about dogs. The farmer's dog is a great service that will make them very happy and you like making your dog's happy right It is farm-to-table. Healthy healthy healthy dog food that they will enjoy, and they will ship it directly to your house or go to the farmer's dog dot com slash and get fifty percent of your first two week trial of fresh healthy food for your dog. Thank you sponsors sponsors. I thought you were talking about lake. Really, a little minions walk on all fours. Eighteen vote like kids. That can't walk you. Baby. Don't figure babies farmers. I mean it is human grade, but don't do it. Maybe do it Julian. Turn. Well, they don't walk around on all fours. They're not walking. They're crawling like. A baby. Boy. What's? To come out of your mom now. Baby does not navigate on their hands and feet at the same time. That's like a bear crawl. Yes, well, you'll have the upper body strength yet when they're when they're just learning how to stand. That's how they do it. They do that they. They have their. They have their feet on the ground and their hands, and they're like a triangle, and then they push themselves up. They like walk their hands up. Something right? It's it's. Sort of like in Yoga where you go from like dowse dog and you walk up to your hands your feet. But. They like grab something. My goodness in your bed in your bed. Rude started podcasting. Hey Kirk you bet go. All right. No No. Put me. Down but. We're not talking about you. We're talking about babies that use hands clinically. Don't. Don't don't do you know? Anything you do not get. In your bed go. Just, ignore him. Welcome to our podcast. Ninety percent of it is US telling Kermit to landed bed. He's so nasty. What else is new? Nothing. Anyway. We missed. You guys. We miss the PODCAST Ben a few weeks. But we're back. And Jenner had an idea to play a little game today. Keep it light. Have a little fun. All I really liked the game guests that recipe, but we did it two times, and I feel like one both times you absolutely did, but what I really like is the idea of. Just. Finding out what's in something in what is it? That's what I liked about that game and so. I like many people have been looking up like little crafts to do in some of them are better than others I feel like, but I'm also not judging because especially, if you have kids like anything to buy you like half an hour of peace and quiet, while your kids have their hands on all fours, it literally does not matter how Shitty the craft is or the end product like it's fun. It serves a purpose, but when I was looking up crafts on pinterest the. Necessary materials was making me laugh really hard. Because out of context, they are ridiculous, so let me hear him so you're going to read off the materials that you need for any given craft. And tell me. Let's craft. A you excited Julian medium side. Would you say? IS OF CRAFTS No. MC, honest I'm not I don't think that's the word I do not do crafts very well. And all the crafts on Pinterest. Are Not something that I I'm good at just in general sense. Arts, and, crafts. That's a weird Combo because I feel like I'm I can handle myself in the arts but crafts. No and the other way round good across bedded art. Can you move the crying machine over to its bed? Try It. You have to lay down honey. You have to just put him in. A to a podcast, if someone telling your dog played. In. Go. Boy. He's a lot of things, but he is not a good boy. Oh. That's a good boy. Okay, he's already out. I. Don't know what you want me to do. I'm trying to play guests that craft. Here are the ingredients for your first. CRAFF me. You're going to tell me. What's that left? So new jingle. The first thing that you need is these are all very specific dollar store coffee filters. Dollar, store, washable markers. Dollar Store Chenille stems what does that? Dollar Store Pony beads. Dollar. Store zippered bags gallons is. Dollar store or a spray bottle filled with water does not have to be from the dollar store. That's it for some reason. Everything else has to be from the dollar store, does it? Can you really invest in without saying dollar store every time? Confusing copy filter washable markers. She Nielsen's Pony Beats zippered bags and spray bottle filled with water. What's that craft? What's that thing where you go to? Morocco. Morocco You're making a Morocco Morocco. What what in those ingredients is making the maracas out to the beads interested in the gallon size bag when you melt, it turns hard, and it soon becomes the shape of drumstick Morocco interesting and inside. You have the Chanel stems not is what gives it. The coding nells them now. And then the markers are decorate them Morocco. Touched, do you know what I'm talking about? It makes it sound. Much, time on. That! Is it, America. Would you like to know what we're making? Were Kinda Morocco? We make in. Making them give me a hint. Okay. Is it a Morocco? It's not a Moroccan. The pony beads are not used to make a sound. And the coffee filter. Is the biggest part of this craft. Coffee. Making coffee. Coffee No K. Coffee Hilter. Biggest part of the craft yeah. Like the main part. How about like? A decorative artificial flower that's really close really. Yes, because the coffee older like the pedals. Artificial Do you want me to just tell you grass Julian I'm going to tell you. You did not get that crap. What is this craft is a copy filter butterfly you draw it and you spray it with water, and it makes a really cool watercolor effects and the pipe cleaners. chenille stones are a little be. Pipe cleaners and Not what it said. Chenille stem tough shit. Wow, that is tough shit! They're really pretty, but. I got one. Okay. To ingredients. Oh God. Rabanne's. Tinfoil. Making a tin vile ball. Split me seven times remarkable respond unless it's correct. Oh, okay. You're not gonNA in foil balls. Tin Foil Ball It's not a tin foil ball. You're guessing right, but that's not what it's called you. You chrome thing. You crumble up all the tin foil, and then cover it with rubber bands, and it's like a bouncy ball. The name of it is called. What's on the outside of it I'm Barbara Bands? And then what is it? A bouncy ball. No, no bounds, just rubber band ball. It's called the rubber band ball. Really yes, really Chilean. Put Your dukes up I'm I'm. This is the hill I'm dying on okay? Yes. It was a rubber band ball. You crunch up. Is he crying. Let me. Just let me hold him. Yeah get three months and again. Well behaved dog. You crunch up the tin foil into a small ball, and then you just wrap it with rubber bands. Is that craft. Yeah, it's a craft. Craft can throw. That that's a craft. I looked up crafts on Pinterest, and that came up. Therefore craft K.. Blame the per- the person at Pinterest who works at the Seo Department okay. Julian, would you like to? Another. Would you like? To guess this craft can me all right. You need a jar. Water, leave what are Julian. The Door Julian. Jar Jar water. Okay. Fine. Fine Glitter. To, find glitter now here by fine. Okay, sorry. A ton of cotton balls like a ton. What's that craft? So why would the glitter need to find those my question? Why can't just be glitter? There's different sizes of glitter like real chunky type or mine. Chunky chunky glitter. What's that craft while I? What are you making I think you're making. I think you're making? Annetta Bowl sparkly marshmallows. because. He dipped the cotton balls into the fine. Glitter! Is there garlic. Do you say there's no garlic? What was the other thing you said the first one Oh jar oh okay. It's going to be one of those things at a nail salon. With, the jar in the cotton balls in it, except it's going to be like shiny cotton balls for your Nail Salon. So that when you clean your nails, you're cleaning the nail Polish off, but you're getting glitter on it I. Don't remember saying Nail Polish remover was A. Clean your nils. Maybe it's maybe you nothing in cotton balls. That will take off nail Polish. How do they? How does it get off? Nail Polish remover. While so maybe go to the salon wanting a glitter up. You don't need to take anything off. You come clean. You're like Hey, I'm. I'm ready to go. It's like a shower first. And then they rub your nails with these cotton balls. And then you have glitter nails. I'd pay for that. What is it? It is a galaxy jar literally doesn't even make sense. What even is that I? Don't know, but it's you. Take fucked on cotton balls. This woman says like literally three bag of cotton balls, and you just chairman with water and glitter and paint, and then you close the jar, and you just look at it. Just look at it I guess. Can you and you open it up and get it everywhere and so I? Don't think so I think the point is to just like look at it as a move like a lava lamp. fucking, sit there. I think you shake it. I hate that craft. That's like you know what. We're talking about crafts. Do Things like oh? It's a decorative butterfly or it's a necklace would be beads like you can wear. It's functional that to me is just. It's like the dead. Be Equivalent of a of craft. It doesn't do anything it just takes up space. Co Crops are superior to others, and this is an inferior craft. While I mean, it depends on what you want. It seems like the kind of craft that some adult made you do as a kid, and then it just sits in your room, and then like a year later you open it up and there's just like water and cotton balls, and the eight grew mold. They literally just poured water in glitter on cotton balls, and use the word galaxy, and put it on Pinterest I disapprove Jillions mad at my craft. No, not you that. That's the worst thing ever I love you. Ready for my. That was. What's what's your? This one's good. Cat! I. Don't think you've ever seen a craft like this. Watercolor paper. Fresh flowers. Not Those old crusty kind Ken Hammer. Paper. A picture frame. Lake pressed flowers for you. Know what this is yeah. I've never seen anyone. Take a hammer flowers and I thought that was so fun. Like prestigious, Hammer the flowers, and then you put it in the picture frame. That's the thing you knew pretty Oh, then. Yeah, okay. That you got that so quick surprise pressed flowers I didn't know that was the popular thing. We can do another one. That will quick. Okay. This is holiday themed, even though it's not the holidays, but might as well be. A waste. And chocolate kisses. Julian, that's not a craft. is. Just make melting the chocolate, nope. WISC in chocolate kiss and plastic wrap. Got This. Shows is a craft that food while it's a craft. That you can gift, but it's not a food. and. I'll give you a hint. We wish you a merry Christmas. That's a hint. But you're making a dot food. First food involved in the crafts, but you don't eat it. I don't know. Basically you take the worse. Can you just wide open it up? Would you do that to a Whiz? Drop them. Chocolate kisses and you let close. To someone, So that's a whisk full of chocolate kisses IRAP. impossibly, he said we. We Skua Merry Christmas. Let's crab. It is a craft gift. It's a cruise equipped. Not Crab. Are Whisk you Merry Christmas? Okay, you know I don't WanNa. Wis that someone's spread. Shit. Regional in there and shut it. You can get them out. You pull it all out and you just. Maybe. Maybe, imagine link brain that home in just the pain of. Opening the whisk dumping all these kids is out, or you just left a trail of chocolate kisses falling out along the way, yeah, they probably will well. That's why the plastic wrap is there. Maybe I don't know. I didn't get that far. I don't think that's a craft. While I searched craft, and that came up. That you told me what's wrong. He really religious this. Son's got simple ingredients. Washable paint. An ice cube tray and water. Colored Ice Cubes. Ice. Ice Paying high, speed. Fate what is ice paying I don't know she was like we were hot, so we just made her paint cold. Oh my God I thought it was going to be like food coloring and then ice cubes because that would have been like edible, but you can't eat that. Can you eat that? No Gillian you're eating paint so. All. Right I mean mean with another okay paper towel roll. Empty making empty. Aluminum foil. Rice. Clear tape. A wooden spoon. A BROOM HANDLE! Colored Paper Optional funnel. Had already yeah kaleidoscope. That's not a bad guess. What the Hell's a broom handle for I don't know, but who just has a broom-handled. So you have the tube. Have the tin foil and you have colored tape. All of a broom handle. Is it like A. Telescope. How? Did you come from nome. I don't know how the hint maybe. It's also sort of like a musical instrument. Is that the thing that you go. ARACA. Now it'd be an an okay time and against Morocco about the cylindrical shape Morocco. What's that call weans thick. Sh! Yeah, knows it arranged. It's a rain stick. That actually sounds like rain. That's cool. It is cool I like that it makes noise Kim. That's cool vibe with that. You like crafts that make noise. Does your whisk. Full of kisses. Make noise depends on how you use it. But yes, it makes a lot of. All the kisses in and started cooking something with it. Wouldn't be edible because the kisses are wrapped in. Inevitable. What is it tin foil wrapped in? And then there's plastic wrap be beating melted plastic. Might be good though. With another one. Punch me with another one Tam I'm GonNa. Punch you another country? To paper plates are GONNA go. To paper plates a clear Plastic Cup. K Green Construction paper. Markers Pencil scissors and a hot glue gun. Green why Green? cat hint. Agreeing. You're making. Kevin what's the shape? It makes when you put to paper plates together. At eight Oh like this. The same shape as one plane when you were. What if you stacked the other way? Trying to visualize this. What is so to paper plates? If one's like this. And the other like no, no none of. The other like that. Yeah, okay, then there's a little bit of a gap in the Middle Yeah Frisbee. AAAGH, speak love. DISC, guess. What does that mean? What's the disc think of a disk? Put. A put a discus. Olympics for the Olympics okay think of that shape care now put a clear Plastic Cup on top of it. What does that look like? A frisbee with a couple of. Yeah right? Yeah I don't know what that makes. An alien ship. Let's go! fucking go okay, you put the little. You cut a little green alien. You put them inside the plastic. Cup and it looks like a little you. Got! It! Craft. I liked that one that that one I would have loved to do. As a kid I would have loved to do as an adult. It's really cute. Unfortunately I'm either. I don't know what I am. Okay Sorry. Or read one now. Okay, go ahead. I can't believe you got to those are tear. We should picture I'm furious. I hate that. I hate that. Like. Why can't you just give someone a whisk with a bow on it? Why are you gotta fill it with Shit because it's a gift and it's the giving season. When Christmas happens now when don't give anything giving season hits? Hits This one has cookies. Julian! Crafts. Do you looked up food? This website has cookies. Just warning you that there are cookies on his website. Thank you were awarded. Just. Be Consider it here. So. This one's called. No, we don't tell me what. Begins. Okay here. We go all right, so you need. Oh God. Why does it take me to this list? Because that's how pinchers like someone, just post a recipe, the have to write like their entire less six months. Not only that but I like. Click the pinterest pin post and it brought me to a list. Post is one of the PINTEREST. One of the post is about this one like all. The all of them are getting clicks from me right now like I'm sure this is giving them all traffic. Which is great, but I also hate everything. Okay here. We go I found it. I clicked it. Ended promise to. Peg. This from crafty morning dot com cab. Need. Tell us what we need I'm just GONNA eyeball this. You Need Silver Paint K. Shell Pasta and bow tie pasta. A toilet paper roll uh-huh Glue Hot Glue. And, some green paint to if you want okay. Then little gold balls. Little Gold Balls. Seen Vogel Malls. Maybe like beads or something low gold beads. Are you making like A. You're definitely painting the Pasta silver. And then putting it on the toilet paper roll. Your onto this mia? So Mu- the fuck. Are you hit mostly shell? Pasta just one bow tie all that's Q-. It's not cute. It's not no. It's okay what silver has shells. ooh Is. He like a look turtle, no shit! No turtle is he like a like a Little Mermaid? There is no he also imagine that it could be silver or green. Just kind of whatever you want, so the silver doesn't really hold much importance in this recipe. Recipe! Craft? Need a hint, okay. Christmas. Why your all of your crafts, Christmas, 'cause Tis the season. It's not the season. It's June his season. It is. Julian fuck off with that I. Hate it hate it. A Shell Pasta Christmas tree that is disgusting, you pay perfectly good edible pasta sauce over, so you can eat it then. Glue onto a used toilet paper roll. No and then you get this. No, no! That's cursed. Oh, it's so curse. And other cookies so I'm going to get ads for this now. That's curse. I feel like there's way better far more superior things to make little. Christmas trees out of. Pasta and paint and toilet paper rolls. Like what you go over to someone's house and there's just like pasta trees all over the place. He! Walk into their houses. You're just accosted by Pasta. And paint and it just smells of paint in the House and. Hold on what accosted by pasta been named called Nuys. Acosta Pasta Nice a walk in. There's there's tainted pasta everywhere painted pasta. That's also a good name. You look in the corner of the room. Is a couple little dogs eating? What are they eating? Pasta treats? No, they're eating farmers dog. Farmers Dog okay. If you want your dog to enjoy their food and eat a healthy diet, do with the farmers dot not eat. Pasta Trees Tony Pasta. Trees eat farmers dog. What do you think the farmer's dog eats? Farmers Dark I think that's probably how they got their name. Anyway they provide human grade and people tested recipes by board-certified Vet Nutritionists and We can be the proof here. Okay? Every time it's breakfast or dinner. They sprint at light speed to the feeding area and we'll break. The sound barrier breaks the barrier shockwave yet happens and they just they. They can't get enough of it. It's really really convenient. If you want to sign up for farmers, dog, you go to. The farmers dot com slash editor Julian. You get fifty percent off your first two week trial, healthy food and the way you do it. Is You fill out a little questionnaire about your dog? What type of dog? They are what they're eating. Habits are okay. Do they do that. And then in a box of convenient box that ship to your your front door is prepackaged meals for them, and it's so easy to feed them. Your dog's love it. You'll love it our our dog's love it, so check it out. Go to the farmers DOT COM Slash Julian. Get fifty percent off your first two weeks. When you sign up using that, you're also. Good thread up dot com slash energy to get an extra okay, an extra thirty percent off up to ninety percent off discounted secondhand clothing. threat up is a really awesome way to be shopping especially right now you can get crazy. Good discounts on usually expensive clothing, because this is the world's largest online thrift store and you can filter by your size or the stuff based on brands, but it's nice to be able to filter by size. Because then you're like looking for things that you know will fit you and you don't have to like finding alike and realize that they don't have your size. You can filter by which I is a really cool feature. So beef up your closet I. Dunno, I, said beef buff up your closet without ever leaving the house. Go to thread of T. H.. R. E. D. UP. COM Slash Julian. And start saving now. The End! Can I do another one. Yours are so I. This is my last one, though okay. Go ahead her. I'm fucking scared what you found. This is from Kim spire diy. That's cute. And if you read a fast, it's Kim sporadically. Okay. Just wanted okay, so the things you'll need for this recipe. Kraft Kraft. Or eight billion pictures Oh. My God okay. You will need. I love Pinterest and I also fucking hated I. Don't know you will need. Don't look now looking just what it is okay. Okay Okay you need. Are you saying. This is not a craft. Julian. What don't you understand a look book craft on? All of. them, every single one except for town. Hall powdered Sugar Julian Craft Bowl. Are you scream! No you don't have an iceberg. Ice Cream scooper. Scooper? This isn't a crowd ice cream cone. And last thing you're going to need a sprinkles. It might be. Why You had to do it to hands around. Julian, you're just making. He is not making ice cream. Why did you show me that picture? Then because it looks like ice cream, that's the craft. It's edible ice cream cost played. Plato I'm going to rage. Waken play with it. Wait. So, why do you have frosting sprinkles? If that's what makes it edible? Smashing. You're making Plato and then eating it correct. You're playing with it with your filthy and hands, and then you're eating it, so you're making Plato. You're putting it in a real ice cream cone. You're using real frosting and real sprinkles. Yes, but you're not actually using Plato. You're using the ingredients that I listed. I'm furious. Don't be furious. What is that? It's just it's horrible. It's using icing, powdered sugar and a real ice cream cone to make fake ice cream, so you're basically making shitty ice cream that you can play with your hands. Powdered sugar isn't, GonNa Make Plato if you mix powdered sugar with ice with icing. It will. And I don't think you've actually tried that so to be fair. I don't know that's not. It's not a crap. That's a food, but it's it's a. it's like a sweet. Thing that looks like an ice cream cone, but it's just frosting or whatever. That's cute, but the craft while. They crafted. Julian. Tried I thought it was a good one. It was about one. Thing it was bad. That picture is curse. HOLDING ICE CREAM Not only order door Tom. Do you have any more? I am more? Are you ready? Yeah? Okay, this one's complicated. You ready for complicated I'm ready for complicated pipe cleaners. Pom Poms. googly eyes. Glue Gun! That's it. googly eyes. Pom Pom Pom. Pom Pom on so things the cheerleaders us. No You're not wrong, but I think they're referring to like the small little puffy balls like this. ooh! So, pipe cleaner glue is you're making. High officials. googly eyeballs. Happens. If you take a pipe cleaner, you put a pom Pom on it, and you put googly eyes on the palm. Stick figure sick face. You want to know what they did with them. They're so cute. They wrap them around their fingers on their finger puppets. That's cool Nike. That's really cool, really cute. That would be Kinda ten. Finger, puppets. Can get down with that craft that that serves a purpose. If I was a little kid I would really like that. All Right Julian here's your next one. tablespoon of self rising flour. Food coloring this the recipe salt and a little bit of water gruel. Yes is it. What can you make out of that? A gruel Omelette. Gremlin. Self rising flour. Paste or something? You are making homemade puffy paint. puffy paint. But like it doesn't. Look good so much you look at. So it's just like rises after you paint the AB I. Don't like does that last like? How does that work? That's. So gross I hate that I. Don't understand what happens to it. I I hate it. Did you see the pictures of it here? Look at the pictures of it. It literally looks like Shit. It looks like you would need to clean it up as soon as you're like you wanted it. Just wipe it off. If it like dries or like how it works, but yeah, that's homemade puffy paint. That's the worst thing ever. That's a that's a way to make painting something fun, Nasty and weird. Like visually looks very uncomfortable. I hate it I'm uncomfortable. Rachel him. Katie he got. Half a cup of warm water. A tablespoon of borax. K. One, did tablespoons clear. Elmer's glue works. What is borax? Calicut up I'm. GonNa. Look a bore axis. Chat. Chat. Do you know if you're watching? What bore axes borax powder? Is it powder. oxy Clean borax detergent. Booster. So it's detergent booster. Mix with what else glue and water water. Fake snow. It's not a bad gifts fake bird poop. Julian. Is Wrong. That's not how to make paper Shea Hose Borax Are you ready? Is The bouncy ball really? Yeah, yeah, that's cool I. Don't use borax alike make. GAC in slime stuff to glue. It's kind of similar to that, but for some reason drives because I didn't read the rest of the. Craft. That's kind of cool that it hardens in, and you can make a bouncy ball out of. It is pretty cool. All Right Julian. Gifts this crack. River rocks. They gotta be from river arose. We don't want him okay. Acrylic paint. In Red and pink or pink. Paint pens in two shades of green medium and light, white and black. Paint Brushes Palette Majd podge. What's module. Think it's like the clear coating the paint over something to seal it. So! You're making your painting. The rocks and you're GonNa coat them and then they're gonNA. You'RE GONNA play Mangala with them. That sounds fun. Is that right or is it? Maybe you say I love you on the rocks in pink, and it's a Valentine's rock gets Q.. What else I? Don't know the Iraq's pain like what? So dumb dude. That's actually kind of cute. I would wanna eat it though that's the problem I just. It's funny to me that you would see a picture of that. You wouldn't be like Oh. That's fun like someone to write a whole entire pinterest post as to how to paint Iraq why? Why why why can't. Why can't we keep it simple? I duNNo. All right this one This one gives me hives a like it already. You Need A. Like jar or vessel glass vessel canola oil. Vinegar food coloring. Baking powder. Are hated homemade. Homemade lava lamp. How in the fuck did you guess that kidding me? I got it yes. It's so uncomfortable there. It's not a lava lamp. It's just like bubbling. Because there's no heat right, you're not gonNA. Apply heat dangerous and. Here's the best part. She just takes up flashlight and shines it from under the bottom of it and turns on the lights. That's so shitty. Tiny lava lamp. There's no top like there's nothing. Contained you just dump nasty shit into a bottle and. Nash under I heard oil, and I was like they're definitely making a lava lamp. I don't why I don't know why my brain thought that. Remember. How cool those were when you were kid! Though yeah, they were. They were really cool like you had one, and you could just sit there and fucking look at it. That's crazy. Look at lamp. I just like. I'm not sure I would ever be like. level are cool. Let me see if I can make one. No, that's one of those things that falls under the category. Of Yeah, you should probably just by. Because that is not a diy lava lamp No, it's not. It's oil in Cup City smelly mess. Yeah, kind of probably does smell. It's like that's the roll up window equivalent of a craft. To? I hate it. Blew Boom Pu okay. Well. We'll more more. All right like a vase. Flat Glass Container. Milk. Food coloring. Marching video. Food coloring red food coloring yellow food coloring. You're making rainbow. Lots of different colors Oh God. You, making Physical Rainbow. Soap okay I quit. Rainbow, SOAP YOUNG Did you hear that we're talking about Milkin. Soap be like. Yum. Yeah here you go, you just dump all that into a container, and then you take a q. tip covered in soap and all the milk months away from it. And what's the point of it? You just look at it and then when you're done, you throw it out. No one you done you, you chug it. Okay I want bomb. I WANNA bomb. And you know what's fucked is when all the colors mix together. It just looks like vomit. It doesn't even look cool your milk. They couldn't it cornstarch in water. Milk is what they decided milk. It's probably a nice graph so many set it up and they did it for you. You'd be like Oh. That's fun when you hear the ingredients I'm like. What am I going to the store for Milk and soap? No, no, you're not. You're going to the store for some Dumb Shit Mills. Stay at home and not go to. The store is now look and so no cut cut that idea out of your life. Can we report PINTEREST POSTS? How do you block Pinterest Post? While some of these were good. That was awful. Some of them were bad. Did you like the lava lamp? You WanNa make later. Let's make it as long as we have to. Sit there and Manley. Ourselves even enjoy it. Okay, and then also will you be using perfectly oil that we could in other? Words Cook with Yeah. Then when you're done. It's probably stops moving around, but we're GONNA. Keep it right, okay, and then when we decide to throw it out, can be poured down the drain so it actually Fox up and clogs drain. It's called plummer. For share, that's my favorite part of that one. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, and then there's glitter, too, so it will. Hopefully grows his. Add glitter cool. Yeah, let's doing. This is fun. This is a good idea. I like all of your crafts were just food and I'm hungry. I don't know. But I do think that there is a nice little intersection of crafts and recipe that needs to be appreciated. Crafts recipes. That's my wheelhouse right there. crassipes. Mounkaila, but the pieces are edible done. That sounds fun. Let's play among caller with jelly beans. Oh, that's dirty. Though dirty or hands are touching all the things, and then you're the one that suggested it. It's not sanitary. I'm down. When I was a kid, we used to play poker with Juju coins. you know the the Red Gumy's counties like Swedish fish? And we play poker with them. Is a good time, but we we all touch them many times before anyone eight them disgusting. I don't know it's Kinda cool. I used to put skills in my pocket like just the skittles, not the pack. Yeah, what happened to them? Well? Sometimes they would come up with a little lyndon them sometimes. I would wash my shorts and then I. Would Rainbow Pockets and Also nope, that's that's all. is about bugs in my pocket? That's cool. That's that's even more normal than skittles, yeah. Okay. Good Talk Good Talk? Good podcast they. He has for hanging out with us for another absurd. We'll be back next week And quickly I wanted to say. Something recently, it was brought to our attention by one of you. And I wanted to thank you. Your name is Ellie how you reached out. in regards to one of our previous sponsors with the podcast notifying us that. There was a sweepstakes going on. That we were promoting for the PA The podcast sponsor that we were told and assigned to promote with that copy that they gave us. That wasn't actually running for a good amount of the time that we're promoting it. We are currently with our team working on a solution to where we will create our own sweepstakes to make that up to all of you. So, just really quickly wanted to say thanks to L. E. for making us aware of this, and we wanted to apologize to you guys for misleading. You although wasn't our fault. We did take part in it and moving forward. We're just going to. We're going to create our own, so we'll make it all right for you, but we did want to. Let you guys know we know about it and thank the person who brought to our attention. Anyway, we'll be back next week. I hope you guys have a good week? Stay safe. Black lives matter. Stay vocal, have conversations and We'll be streaming live on twitter as well. including my new cooking show, which is low, twitch this Friday great time. I still have race crispy streets to eat. You still have some. Cook along with. Kermit. By.

Pinterest Julian Morocco Craft Plato Kim Dick Dick Kermit lake Jenner D. U. Dollar Store Morocco Morocco America twitter
Confused about Brexit? So are U.K. businesses

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

06:42 min | 1 year ago

Confused about Brexit? So are U.K. businesses

"This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by four x dot com. Committed to empower and helping traders seize opportunities in the foreign exchange markets. Learn more at four x dot com for dot com. It's your world trade it for trading involves significant risk of loss. Internal documents show Boeing plans to fix the grounded seven three seven max jets. This is the marketplace morning report live from the BBC World Service. I'm anew on good morning. I though this sentence through Brexit into another phase of uncertainty with just eleven days to go government camel legitimately do he's to resubmit to the house the same proposition all substantially the same proposition as lots of last week, which was rejected by one hundred and forty nine Bates. That's the speaker of the British parliament yesterday ruling that Prime Minister Theresa may cannot bring the same exit deal. That's been rejected twice for further votes. The bet now is on a long delay. But no one knows for sure Sarah lake in is owner of two cafes in the historic town of York in northern England big or small businesses are still confused. We don't have any plans. This is the problem. We don't really know. What's going to happen? Very difficult. I didn't how I can organize myself. I don't know what's me next week or what the voting four today in parliament. I mean, it's all over the place. So. We've got not just staffing. We've got stock. That comes from Europe wines. We've got coffee that comes through Europe have no plans, currently, I'm just waiting to say how it falls? Well, rob Patterson is CEO of best western Great Britain, which employs many European nationals whom he says they're trying to help business we've been helping with things locked visa applications or passport applications big a pardon enquiries on how to go about that. But tangible actions to plan for it. It's really there's not much you can do because no one really knows what's going to happen. Well, Patterson, we'll Andrew gray is global head of Brexit at consultancy PW. See I think we're all surprised. I mean, this wasn't one of the events that we were expecting, but we've always recognized that this is an uncertain process. And that we need to plan for anything little boast likely scenario is that we end up with an extension in some form or other. But of course, the legal default the moment if thanks station. Isn't granted is that we do end up with a hard Brexit on. The twenty ninth of March. We did a survey recently twenty percents those businesses we spoke to said that they were ready for anything. But that does leave h percents of them's who only partly prepared or not proposal the impact of not being prepared could be disruption disruptions, certainly a realistic expectation about I think the risk of heart breaks. It does mean that if it's that does turn out to be the outcome. We think number phones will absolutely be struggling and potentially. Some. We'll go bust. We've certainly seen financial services moving part of their operations some banks maybe ready to move and they're not going to change their plans. Now, I mean, the changes in some ways have now tied compliance because they're already planned, even if Brexit were cancelled orders, a very long extension to Brexit is difficult. See how things go back to exactly the way the were before Brexit was even voted him, Andrew gray. Let's do the numbers now despite those fresh Brexit developments the British pound is holding steady. The UK's Footsie-100 is higher with other European benchmarks. And the feds two day meeting starts today with. Russian's likely to focus on a continuing reduction in its multi trillion dollar balance sheet. Boeing is told airlines expect modifications to software on its troubled seven three seven max aircraft to be ready by the end of the month. According to documents seen by the BBC, the changes, come after two crashes of the aircraft in five months the plane has been grounded around the world, the BBC's THEO legged has more the changes being introduced by Boeing will limit the operation of the controversial 'em Cass anti stole system used on the seven 737 seven max measures. They're also being taken to change the way the system response to censor failures and to improve comfort warning systems, though, be new training for pilots and alterations to operating manuals provided to flight crew. In an open letter published on Monday Boeing's chief executive Dennis muhlenberg emphasized safety was an overarching focus for the company in London. I'm the BBC's THEO like for marketplace Morocco is one of the most popular tourist destinations in Africa. But it's also one of the. As for gender inequality. The BBC's Kathrina mo- reports on a solution. More female only tours. The being the atlas mountains in rural ker, it's likely you've had this popular Berber folks on this is a women's only party, the only men aloud here of the musicians eighty percent of women in Morocco are illiterate and financially dependent. But a rise in these women only tools starting to provide an income. Xena Ben shake runs intrepid travel in Morocco than rural Morocco for women to do job that involved to stay outside of the house. Spend nights, a multiday trips with group of tourists that can be mixed. It's not seen as a normal job. She's working hard for involve more women in the tourism industry and close the gender pay gap Morocco is ranked as one of the ten worst countries in the world for gender equality. According to the World Economic Forum. Let's go feed it to Ben is leading group through the high. Atlas mountains she became the country's first female mountain guide. Twenty five years ago out of three thousand eight hundred eighty five qualified tool guides in the country, one hundred sixty three a women an early nine of them. Plus feta are allowed to lead groups on mountain tracks after years and years people come to me inner Moroccan girls coming to me, all are good example. We want to do like you. On the track we meet Fatima. She's a Newmont and widow she lives in a small cave with her daughter and has begun hosting female tourists to supplement her income. It's a new experience of the tourists and women impulsivity for all women, we've met these tools allow them to be part of Morocco's booming tourism industry and gain financial independence without breaking any social to booze in this traditionally conservative society. Katharina MO there. I'm on with the marketplace morning report coming to you live from the BBC World Service.

Morocco Boeing BBC World Service Brexit BBC rob Patterson Europe Andrew gray British parliament impulsivity World Economic Forum Bates Katharina MO Sarah lake Brexit Brexit England UK
Captain James Riley Pt. 1: Shipwrecked

Hostage

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Captain James Riley Pt. 1: Shipwrecked

"This episode features discussion of kidnapping murder and the physical abuse of a hostage that some people may find offensive listener. Discretion is advised especially for children under thirteen captain. James riley had always been a religious man man though he had prayed more in the past nine days than the rest of his life combined without food or water he and his famished the crew were adrift off the coast of morocco. No land in sight worse. They're small dinghy was taking on water. His crew had been bailing water out of the boat twenty four hours a day for a week hoping they would cross paths with the ship that might be able to rescue them. Finally his crew spotted the next best thing land peeking out over the horizon with renewed vigor they paddled towards it it but as they neared land a sense of dread crept up james's spine this was berber country where the c met the great sahara ah with each row towards distant shore james riley felt his stomach drop the only thing that would save his men was the kindness of strangers but that kindness was also the worst thing that could happen to them. He knew the local people of morocco would give them food food and water they would also enslave the crew and sell them to the highest bidder out of options with daylight fading and the cold atlantic nick winds whipping at their back the men road towards the craggy desert shore head knowing full well that when they made landfall they would no no longer be free men. This is hostage apar- cast original every week. We tell the stories behind the most captivating hostage situations and the people inside them. We'll also cover. These psychological tactics used in kidnapping situations and with the human brain does when held captive. I'm irma blanco and i'm corduroy roy. This is our first episode on captain. James riley who in eighteen fifteen was taken hostage and enslaved by the berber people people after his shipwreck along the jagged moroccan coastline this week we'll follow james and his crew's first few days of survival in north africa and the conditions that force them to seek the kindness of the wrong strangers next week. We'll follow his time as a slave from the first days as of his capture until he was sold to the highest bidder on the notorious barbary slave market you can listen to all of our casts shows on spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts new episodes of hostage. Come out every thursday at par cast. We are grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do it. We i love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram at par cast in twitter at podcast network and if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help alba's is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening it really does help the berbers have lived in northern africa for centuries their presence in the region predates written history their ancestors earliest paintings can still still be found on the rocks and caves dot the vast sahara desert. It's likely their ancestors settled the land over six thousand years ago when when the desert was still a grassy plain as shifting climates turn the lush plane into a barren wasteland. They didn't migrate instead. They found a way to cope by the early nineteenth century many berber sex were nomadic peoples traversing the desert with herds of sheep and trading with larger established cities for goods. The desert could not provide them. They also became the go betweens for much of northern africa as the berbers were the only the only group capable of making the long journey across the desert unscathed. They were handsomely rewarded for creating trade caravans that took spices then goods across africa along the barbary coast from the fifteen hundreds through the eighteen hundreds. There was one good that seemed to be in short supply in constant demand slaves and unlike the majority of the world where african peoples were enslaved and taken west the north african slave trades were for lack of a better word much more diverse especially in the seventeenth eighteenth centuries. The slaves sold in the region aijun. Were from all over africa and mainland europe. European slaves were not at all uncommon they were often sailors who had been plucked out of the mediterranean iranian by pirates or unfortunate souls captured from the coasts of italy spain portugal or france barbary pirates were known and to raid coastal towns as far north as ireland well into the nineteenth century and take anyone they could as slaves so much so that most most coastal towns in europe or left almost completely abandoned until the mid eighteen hundreds when the slave trade finally subsided but such practices pisses were still in full swing in eighteen fifteen when james riley and his crew ran ashore in morocco day would be left stranded at the mercy of the berber people who would see only the price tag on their heads long before he was enslaved in africa. James riley was born on october twenty seventh seventeen seventy seven in middletown connecticut. He was the fourth child of ayrshire and rebecca rebecca riley who worked a small farm to support their family. James's childhood wasn't impoverished won. His father grew sick with liver disease soon. After james james was born and was almost entirely unable to tend their farm for the next eight years to help make ends meet asher rented james out to neighboring farms arms as a hired hand starting when james was eight in exchange for james's labor the neighboring farms housed and fed him and paid him a small stipend that change chains would send to his family. The farmers also agreed to send james to school. Although his parents soon found out that wasn't always the case nevertheless nevertheless james was a smart boy who soon learned how to read and write through a mixture of self teaching and sporadic schooling in seventeen eighty nine asher assures health improved and he was able to pull the farmland back from the brink of ruin but james's father never recovered enough to fully support the family james continued to work on farms across the county for another few years until he was fourteen by that point he'd had enough of farm life at age fifteen eighteen instead of returning to neighboring farms for the harvest season he resolved to become a sailor and see the world through its trade routes so in the summer summer of seventeen ninety two fifteen year old james riley boarded a merchant ship headed for the west indies and set out on what he hoped would be a grand <unk> adventure sailing agreed with james. He spent the next seven years working his way up from kevin boy to cook and and finally i mate aboard a series of different vessels when he finally returned home in eighteen zero nine thirty two year old james was a well travelled learned ended man and a skilled navigator who spoke fluent french and spanish and seventeen years he had truly seen the world from his arrival. He was talk of the town which helped him secure a marriage. The same year to a local woman of considerable beauty and charm over the next few years james james and his wife had four children which she raised while james was out at sea but changing politics and a failing global economy wreaked havoc nick on maritime trade as british interference with trade routes put sailors out of work by the start of the war of eighteen twelve. James's broke unable to make a living working aboard trade boats. He soon fell into a depression. He was reluctant to stay on land but since he had never commanded a ship before it was unlikely he'd secure private charter. He briefly considered the navy but knew that at the old age of thirty thirty five he'd never reach high enough rank to support his growing family it seemed as though his days of adventure might be coming to an end and has the war raged on chains worked odd jobs on land he was depressed but held onto hope that when the war finally ended work would pick back again however in august eighteen fourteen british troops marched on washington d._c. And set the city of flame the capitol capitol burned and the commanding british officers threatened to destroy every coastal town on the eastern seaboard cutting off supplies to american troops upon hearing during this change riley felt called volunteer for the u._s. Navy and due to his experience at sea in the fact that many commanding naval officers had died haydn battle james was named captain of a reserve ship james was thrilled he'd avoided joining the navy in the past for fear of being stuck in a low ranking low salaried position but now he was a captain somewhat. Fortunately his vessel was never needed in the field and he was never never called up to serve but for the adventure seeking james riley his new title afforded him some clout after the war ended in the spring of eighteen fifteen and in no time he was back on the high seas in april eighteen fifteen james riley got his first the big break in the private sector he was named captain of the commerce of hartford a brand new two hundred ton cargo ship that set sail for new orleans the following month on may six eighteen fifteen over the next few weeks they sailed to new orleans exchange cargo then moved on to the bahamas hamas landing back in new orleans by june sixth to once again exchange cargo before heading across the atlantic to complete their charter. The commerce commerce of hartford was headed for the bay gibraltar in spain two months later they arrived in gibraltar where they delivered their american cargo and restocked on wine line brandy and salt from there they plan to take the new cargo south to the cape verde islands off the coast of senegal in western africa arca but in early august just a few hours into their trip. A surprise storm nearly capsized their ship three miles off the coast of spain james in his eleven man crew jumped overboard for fear of being caught beneath tumbling ship chip which was taking on water quickly. They struggle to keep their heads above water in the storm. Never mind the fact that they were in the shark infested mediterranean ian miles from shore but just as it seemed there lock was running out a schooner pass by and saw the small crew adrift and quickly came to their aid. The crew was forced to wait out the storm on the schooner watching their ship grow heavy with water. James prayed the commerce wooden sink that some of the cargo would be salvageable and that once the storm had cleared they'd be able to dry out the ship and continue on he thanked the crew of the schooner admitting that without them his entire crew would have been dead by morning and miraculously the commerce didn't sink in in fact after a mere two weeks drying out they were able to set sail again in late august eighteen fifteen but once again bad weather hindered their progress the see was uncharacteristically foggy for the next few days making it hard to navigate james riley knew they were headed toward the canary islands off the coast of morocco but he couldn't see any of the islands to confirm. He also couldn't tell how far he was from the moroccan coast. The fog persisted over the next few days and grew increasingly thick night. The crew could barely see pass the bowie the ship there was an uneasiness on board as the navigator and crew members constantly check their calculations as best they could to you insure they hadn't made any errors it was of the utmost importance to land at an english spanish or french settlement and not the wilderness internist of morocco where they could be subjected to the whims of the berber people who'd they'd heard where cutthroat slave traders there was no reason to believe i believe the ship had drifted off course but it was impossible to tell where they were in relation to the rest of the world so isolating was the fog. The fog soon proved the least of their problems on a dark and stormy night. When the waves were particularly rough the wind began to pick-up thrashing the vessel the ship once again began to take on water and the crew couldn't lower the sales quickly enough to prevent them from catching the wind and the fog cleared for a moment and james riley was able to see shoreline just a mile or so in the distance given their proximity to land he ordered the crew to drop anchor hoping the water might be shallow enough for the anchor to steady the ship but it was no use the ship continued to be thrown own from side to side when it wasn't in danger of capsizing it was taking on water and sinking slowly beneath the weight of the salt water pouring bring in below deck in what was the hardest call of his life captain. James riley ordered his men to abandon ship the the crew scrambled to bring as many supplies as possible above deck then prepare the small boats the size of liferafts to carry them to shore but the boats were no no match for the storm and quickly got caught in the undertow waves smashed into the boats and soak them as the undertow carried them toward the shore. The boats capsized sending their supplies. Everywhere and the men were washed up on land half drowned. James coughed up seawater water as he watched his beloved ship smash against the rocks down the coast. He stood on the beach. Observing his is half sunken ship in ragged eleven man crew knowing they were lucky to have escaped with their lives before him were the men he had sworn to protect williams robbins porter hogan barrett byrnes savage horace clark and dick but it was out of the frying pan into the fire hire as these men would soon be subjected to the horrors of the slave trade. James riley would later recall quote. We were spared in order to suffer a severe doom and miseries worse than death on the barbarous shores of africa up next james his crew throw themselves at the mercy of barbary pirates. What if your doctor didn't know what was wrong with you. Medicine isn't always an exact science. Sometimes it's a guessing game when the world's most renowned experts can't explain what's wrong. We're left with a medical mystery every week. The podcast original medical mysteries looks at the strangest real life medical michael cases in history and the experts who raced against the clock to solve them if you're curious about some of the world's most baffling and bizarre diseases you'll you'll enjoy medical mysteries. You can sit alongside doctors as they try to piece together the clues of an unexplainable health condition and solve a high stakes mystery tree. How do you cure what you didn't know existed follow medical mysteries for free on spotify and wherever you get your podcasts or visit parkas dot com slash medical mysteries tillerson now pay obama hostages part of an incredible collection of stitcher premium offerings. Yes that's where everyone can find ad free archives of hostage episodes that are more than six months old but did you know that in addition to add free archives lives of every podcast show you get original stitcher content full length comedy albums and bonus episodes and add free archives of other exclusive podcasts. If you find yourself listening to more and more podcast a subscription to stitcher premium is a great way to get content. You can't get anywhere else for free. Trial trial go to stitcher premium dot com slash podcast and use promo code podcast that stitcher premium dot com slash podcast and use promo code podcast now back to the story in late august eighteen fifteen thirty-seven-year-old captain james riley and his crew ran ashore along the barbary coast morocco with barely enough supplies to last them a few days. Their ship ship was unsalvageable. James commanded his tattered crew to gather their supplies together and build a little tent with the oars and sails as the best they could. He hoped they wouldn't be discovered by anyone. Passing by as he was well aware that they were in inhospitable lands their only only hope was to wait for a calm sea day and try to sail their little dinghy into the path of a friendly ship that could take them to european settlements down the coast or to the cape verde islands. It should be noted that james is initial hesitation to engage the local population wasn't only because of the slave trade in the area mistakenly he thought the locals might be cannibals since they weren't european instead the local soon proved themselves else to be learned thieves no sooner had james and his crew set up camp when it was raided by a local man and his two wives who began collecting the crew's belongings that had washed up along the beach. James's men went to stop them. But james halted his enraged crew. He allowed the locals to plunder slender their belongings for fear that they might otherwise bring back more people from their village and take revenge and so james and his men set helplessly blissfully while their belongings were stolen out from under them without food and water they had little time to work out a rescue plan time became of the absolute essence i for the understandable reason food and water were essential to survival but beyond that these mariners chairs were likely trying to avoid invoking the law of the sea according to the nineteen ninety nine book the custom of the sea by journalists neil hanson when faced with death it was understood that if sailors died of hunger or thirst the others could eat their bodies however if the entire crew was in dire straits and no one was dying naturally it was an accepted custom to draw straws and decide who would sacrifice themselves so that the rest of the crew could live the law of triage is still used on ships today although cannibalism elizabeth is never encouraged needless to say the entirety of james riley's crew was eager to get help last they become a meal but as the day wore on the likelihood of salvation seemed more and more unlikely the ocean showed no signs of calming even as the storm cleared cleared the seas stayed choppy and grey james took stock of his tattered eleven man crew and felt the weight of responsibility settle on his shoulders. These men had entrusted him with their lives. He also thought of the wife and children he had left at home. Who expected him to return a wealthy man. Dan instead that income was sitting at the bottom of the ocean or in the pockets of the local moroccan villagers as the sun set over a rocky we see james and his crew at a small fire eight what few supplies they had and settled down in the sand to sleep the next morning james was awoken by the sound of a war cry and camel hooves pounding in the sand. He looked up with horror to realize the small family who had stolen. I'm from them. The day before had returned on their camels this time with several more men and long twelve foot spears james and his is crews sprang into action running for any weaponry they could find on the beach but the approaching camels were faster and soon overtook the camp up before the crew could reach their belongings. James grabbed a spear that had washed ashore the day before just as an old man on a camel reached him. He pulled the spear up in time time to deflect the old man's lance but the rest of the crew were quickly surrounded and james had no choice but to throw down his weapon while he and his crew were distracted. The villagers got what they had come for the dinghy. They liked the small boat to a few camels and raced away with it down the beach. James panted trying to catch his breath as despair set in his only chance. Ask had just been dragged away. They were left with two options traveling east or traveling west both by land end and neither a safe bet. The crews seemed to sense his growing dread. They never verbalised it but james knew they knew they were. In dire straits they would head west. James decided as the villagers had retreated to the east and he didn't want to run into them again. The crew dropped their weapons and began to pack up what few supplies they had left. Just then a few villagers came racing down the beach yet again the crew ran dan for any weapons they could find scattered along the beach bracing themselves for the worst but instead the villagers stopped short withdrew drew a large pouch of water then signal to the crew that they meant no harm. This group of villagers had no weapons in their hands. Only water for the crew. James was suspicious but he moved towards the villagers throwing up his hands in a sign of goodwill. The old man seemingly seemingly the village leader gave him water to drink which to the dehydrated captain tasted like heaven than the old man motion to the correct ship as though he'd like to board. It and james wasn't sure what to make of this but he didn't wanna dash tenuous friendship that might be developing. Perhaps now that the villagers had stripped the sailors for all they were worth a civil relationship could develop james lead the old man in his small cavalry towards the ship which was waterlogged tipped over in the shallows with no other choice he let then board the wreckage initially the villagers product around the ship with genuine interest it occurred to james that perhaps they had never been on a vessel of of that size and founded fascinating but just as he was about to move them off the deck. The old man turned on him knife drawn to huge each men grab james on either side and a young boy. Seemingly a teenager held him at knifepoint. James didn't move he didn't call for help although his crew could see what was happening and began to rush to the ship from the beach but the villagers brandished their weapons making it very clear. If the crew took one foot on board james would be killed. The old man clearly the leader began to motion to james who soon realized what they were after any money or goods still on board reluctantly james allowed them to search the wreckage the crew watch from below and indeed they did manage to find a few trunks have random supplies and money the villagers loaded the trunks onto to their camels then began to drag james off the ship most likely to secure a clean get-away the road with him at knife point for hundred yards cards until his crew was at a safe distance then the old man and a few of his cavalry members stopped and motion for james to have a seat in the sand they then signaled to james's crew asking for one of them to come towards them. Of course none of the eleven crew members want had to be the first to step forward on shore of what fate might lie ahead. They hovered around the wrecked ship in a stalemate finally a man named antonio antonio mitchell to go and began walking towards james and his captors a few villagers descended on him and stripped him down to make sure he had no weapons hidden in his clothing then they held him at knife point and began yelling at him. Neither antonio nor james were sure what their captors there's wonted until finally the old man intervened dreams realized what he was motioning for. He believed the crew had more money. They were hiding hiding and was threatened to kill antonio. Unless james gave up the goods. James's heart quickened. He well knew they had no more more money or supplies to give the villagers had robbed them blind but he was also sure they would happily kill off a few of his mates to make sure are they had nothing left to give 'antonio looked at his captain with pleading is clearly believing he was about to die. James needed a plan. His eyes darted along the beach and finally he got an idea signaled for the villagers to dig to the right side of their makeshift tent. He motioned that he had buried money. They're the old man bought it. James call to the sailors down the beach and ordered them to begin digging king. They were unsure of the plan but didn't fight their captain and went along with his request that might seem like a poor idea to lie to one's captors but the villagers had already destroyed any sense of trust between the two parties by deceiving the sailors with the water bags according to f._b._i. Veteran chris is false in any hostage situation. You should only lie to someone if you plan to kill them. Erodes trust and makes negotiations impossible as an f._b._i. Agent voss knew that if he lied to a hostage-taker who survived the incident word could get out that the f._b._i. Lies and undermine all negotiation efforts in the future lying assumes a terminal solution something james riley seemed to sense. James knew he needed to make an escape that this ruse had only bought him a little time but two armed men stood six inches to his right and left he had few options slowly. He began to draw his legs up from under him trying not to arouse suspicion he he waited for one of his crew members to make some kind of noise that would momentarily distract the guards. Perhaps thinking they had struck treasure. Finally a moment came aim one of the crew stood up suddenly and james pounced he jumped shoving the guard on his right to the ground then when lunging down the beach towards antonio antonio who has also tried to make a break for it james ran towards the sea and dove beneath the waves staying underwater as long as he could hold his breath he then poked his head above the ways and saw his captors searching through the water for him about ten feet away. He plunged under the water again and began swimming towards camp hoping to make it to the wreck ship. He's still wasn't sure what he do next but he knew getting away from his captors was his only shot that survive he swam against the current so hard he felt his lungs might explode. He didn't dare look back. Although he expected spear to come plunging into his back at any moment. Finally he made it to the wreck where his crew was still waiting. They pulled him out of the water. As he caught his breath he looked down the beach in time to watch as the villagers rushed antonio and plunged a spear into his chest. I antonio's fell to the sand bleeding out turning the ground beneath him. Crimson anger boiled inside james he he hated these villagers who had ransacked them harass them and now had murdered one of them in cold blood the villagers then turn back doc and retreated leaving antonio's body to wither beneath the african son in a moment james and his crew have yet another run in with the native population back to the story in late august august eighteen fifteen thirty seven year old captain james riley watched helplessly as local villagers plundered his shipwrecked crew of supplies then murdered his crew member antonio mitchell in cold blood now as the villagers retreated james. James knew he had to act fast if he wanted to save the lives of the rest of his crew. He knew they would never make it on land. The sea seemed to be their only only option. James has crew lowered the longboat which would typically be used to ferry the crew from the ship to the shore off the side of the wrecked ship. The longboat had been so thrashed by the waves it started taking on water. The moment they began dragging it ashore they no oh longer had oars and its rudder had been utterly crushed was a useless little dinghy but it would have to do the men were hesitant but captain. James told them that it was better to die at sea than to be picked off one by one by the locals reticently. His crew agreed greed. They patched the longboat as best they could loaded. They're very few remaining supplies and crowded into the boat and shoved off heading heading out to sea. They hope to intercept a ship as soon as they headed out to members of the crew had started throwing buckets of water out of the boat and would take turns doing so around the clock just to keep the little dinghy afloat has the beach got further away the wind win cease completely chain side with relief knowing that the good weather meant they had a better chance of keeping excess water out of the boat they road south down the coast hoping to make it to a settlement or flag down a friendly ship careful not to sail too close to shore they ran the risk of running aground being dashed upon the rocks or attracting local attention. They were also dangerously low on water but feared ear that journey towards a river inland would result in more crew deaths in the plundering what few resources they still had to work with. It was bleak but james and and his crew of now ten men held onto hope they changed hands every half hour two at a time taking turns bailing water out of the boat they pushed out to the open ocean leaving the coastline behind in hopefully positioning themselves directly in the path of other sailing alling ships but the first night was dreadfully cold and the men soon grew tired as they were awakened every two hours for their turn to bailout water the next day proved no kinder the wind picked up again and tossed the little boat tipping even more water into the waterlogged craft raft the men's feet were constantly soaked and freezing food and water quickly dwindled and the rough waves began to literally tear the boat apart days past and they still had not come across another ship. It seemed inevitable that they would die on the open ocean. If they couldn't flag down another vessel soon the crew held out hope for seven full days at sea until captain in james finally made the decision to head back towards land at the very least he thought they could find food and water and perhaps then shipped back out to see if they were careful they could get by without attracting attention. They made it to land just as their little boat was about out to fully give way and clambered onto the beach thankful to be out of the water but their arrival point was far from ideal it was a rocky jagged cliff that rose up to meet a high point in the sahara desert completely devoid of food water or shelter and seemingly impenetrable james couldn't see any way around the cliffs especially as night was setting in and so for lack of a better option the crew fell asleep on the small sandy beach and slept until daylight on the morning of september eighth nine days after they had initially crashed on the shores of morocco james riley indus crew awoke from the best night of sleep. They'd had an over a week which wasn't saying much. At least they hadn't been awoken by robbers or the need to bail water out of a sinking dinghy dehydrated and starving the the crew decided to walk along the water's edge until they could find a place to dig for freshwater or possibly find some foliage to eat or even more more fortuitously a european settlement they started along the coast and eventually found a spot that seemed easier to climb it would at the very least east give them access to the high desert where they might find vegetation an oasis or an animal they could turn into a meal and so the the crew of ten and james began a treacherous climb up the craggy cliff clambering through chasms around shaky rocks slowly worn down down by the inclement weather at one point the crew was forced to scale along a narrow ledge fifty feet above the ground and only eight inches wide inched their way along the ledge on their toes holding their breath as they moved by nightfall. The crew had still not managed to make it to the desert and were forced to spend the night on a small plateau beneath the crags. They drank their own urine for hydration. Though their heads still still ached from malnourishment the situation was growing dire under normal circumstances. James would have spent all night turning the situation <music> over in his head but he was so mentally and physically depleted. He fell asleep. The moment he laid down and didn't stir until morning the morning light brought hope not far off the cliffs gave way to a sloping sand dune which would be much easier easier to climb up finally they made it to the desert but between them and the dunes to the most challenging part of their climb the waves were crashing rushing against the cliffs ahead of them and spring upwards they would have to traverse the rocks while being pounded by the sea. They had come too far to back down. Now now slowly the crew made their way across the cliffs headed for the sand ahead. The waves thrashed at them soaking. The already exhausted austin men to the bone. James's fingers were so cold. They felt brittle like they snap off on the rock face. The water rushed at him so violently. He felt like he was drowning for a moment he considered letting the waves wash him away. One quick drop and it'd all be over her he'd be smashed against the rocks below and saved from whatever new horrors this godforsaken journey could throw at this point into james's body had been in starvation mode for nine days which meant that his body was now using brain tissue as food and the gray matter in his brain was actively shrinking. He probably was not the only member of his crew managing suicidal idealization prolongs starvation can bring on depression and eventually hysteria as the brain quite literally goes mad in search of food. According to a nineteen fifty one study entitled titled the biology of human starvation but thankfully james pushed the fantasy aside and kept moving slowly towards towards the sandy dune ahead finally all eleven men reached the dune and fell over into the sand leading the hot sun beat down on on them and dry. They're sopping wet clothes. After an hour of rest james stood up and realized that as far as they could see there was nothing but sand and jagged rocks one of his men side we will die here. James feared it was true through. There was no salvation anywhere just more sand. He resigned himself to the very real possibility that they would wither away in the heat resigned. He said then we'll walk until we fall over and take our final rest. The sun sank low on on the horizon and the air cold. James and his men kept walking praying for salvation or quick painless death whichever came. I'm i a sailor named clark side. I in the distance a ways down the beach a small light flicker to life. If a rush of excitement flooded through james's veins it was a campfire. Someone was out there. Perhaps someone willing to help help. James and the crew huddled around they knew the fire likely belong to native peoples and they were no hurry to repeat their experience from the week week before but without help they would be dead by morning. It was then that james told his crew. If they went to these he's natives for help. They could be taken as slaves as captain. James knew it was very unlikely he would survive that ordeal. Several all of them might die in captivity but some he reasoned would survive dead if they did dead if they didn't but the crew agreed they had little choice slowly the crew made their way towards the fire trying to remain undetected until the very last moment together they strode into the camp arms raised in surrender the camp belonged to the berber people natives of morocco thirty to forty forty men and women were around the campfire tending to their camels and setting up camp for the night when they saw the eleven european men stride into camp trump. They immediately drew their swords and lunged at them. James took a knee and bowed his head. His crew did the same the berber people grab abc the men and strip them of their clothing and searched the naked men's possessions for valuables finding none they folded their clothing up into carpets in fasten them to the backs of the camels then much to james's surprise. The berbers began fighting over the new hostages with scimitar. 's they pulled the different crew members towards their camels and swiped at one another with swords far too close to james for comfort. The man who had taken james is closed was quick to defend his new captive. He sparred with another villager and was cutting the arm leaving a gash that seemed to reach down to the bone bone. The skirmish lasted for nearly an hour until the berbers had tired themselves out and the new slaves had been divvied up amongst them. It was only then that james realized the scimitar they had been using were blunt so that they could not kill one another only sustain injuries yes. He realized they must fight like this somewhat often enough to carry blunted cemeteries in their belts. It was the wildest practice he had ever seen. Gene naked james and another crew member named dick were tied up and led away by two women james showed the women his dehydrated hydrated tongue and they let him to a well to drink the force to monitor his hands and knees so that he had a drink like a dog. The well water was murky and black but he lapped it up all the same it tasted like builds from the hull of his ship and smelled of mold the women then gave him him sour camel's milk. He in dick were so hungry and they didn't care that it had gone bad. They drank it until their stomachs were full and almost immediately he got sick. James begged for something to eat but the berbers had no food for themselves. Let alone their new slaves. It was only after being taken to a new part of the camp. The james realized the scope of the settlement over one hundred berbers were there and at least four hundred hundred camels. James spent that first night ill but glad to be alive. He may die in the coming days but now he had hope which was far more than it could have touted a few hours before the next morning. Six of his crew members named williams robbins porter hogan barrett and burns were mounted onto camels and were led away from camp. James watched them go on sure whether they would make it out alive or if he would ever see them again he watched them move away from camp and slip through a crevice in the rock disappearing from sight that left for more of james's his crew mr savage clark horace and dick together. The five of them were charged with hurting campbell's through the desert to another oasis to graze. He's they were fastened to the camels that their new masters road and walked alongside the animals in the blazing sun. The sand was so soft they a sank to their knees with every step. It was grueling work on an empty stomach soon. The landscape changed sharp dr craggy rocks and stones cut the men's bare feet and legs through the muscle has their master's urged them forward on willing to take a break and finally they started up a craggy chasm much steeper than anything the men had weathered before the sharp rocks ate away at their feet and james james felt himself collapsing under the weight of exhaustion malnourishment and an onset of dysentery likely from the brackish water and sour milk when when they finally reached the top james fell down to rest. He looked out at the sea of sand around him. It felt like a prison in a death knell he would spend the rest of his days held against his will as a slave letting rocks rip his skin apart famished famished and thirsty smelling nothing but camel and sweat he thought of his wife and children as he closed his eyes and prayed they'd never open and next week james and his crew try their best to carry on as slaves of the berber people and vie for their own freedom adam. Thanks again for tuning into hostage. We'll be back next thursday with partout. You can find more episodes of hostage as well as all of our casts other shows on spotify or anywhere else you listen to podcasts of you have asked how to help us. If you enjoy the show the best way to help us to leave a five star review and don't forget get to follow us on facebook and instagram at park cast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time in the meantime. Don't take your freedom for granted rented hostage was created by max. Cutler is a production of cutler media and as part of the podcast network it is produced by maxon ron cutler sound sound design by kerry murphy with production assistance by ron shapiro and paul moller additional production assistance by maggie admire and freddie beckley. This episode of hostage was written by aaron land and stars irma blanco and carter roy be sure to listen to medical mysteries each week. It follows a different patient as doctors race against the clock to diagnose the most mysterious durieux ailments they've ever seen from the bizarre to the terrifying. How do you cure what you didn't know existed. Follow medical mysteries for free on spotify and wherever you get your podcasts or visit parkas dot com slash medical mysteries listen now.

James riley james james James riley morocco africa spotify antonio antonio facebook twitter irma blanco morocco rebecca rebecca riley antonio antonio antonio mitchell depression cape verde williams robbins africa kidnapping liver disease
China, the Party, and the World: A Conversation with Mareike Ohlberg

Power 3.0 | Authoritarian Resurgence, Democratic Resilience

00:00 sec | Last month

China, the Party, and the World: A Conversation with Mareike Ohlberg

"Hello everyone, and welcome to the power three point. Oh podcast looking at authoritarian resurgence and democratic resilience in an era of globalisation. Power Three Point Oh is brought to you by the International Forum for Democratic Studies, the Ideas Center of the National Endowment for Democracy. I'm your host Christopher Walker Vice President for Studies and analysis at the endowment and I'm your co host shanty colossal, senior director Nets International Forum for Democratic Studies. Since the end of the Cold War democracies have operated under certain assumptions regarding China's rise. One crucial assumption was that by integrating China into the global economy and the international system, China would gradually undergo meaningful political reform. But things haven't turned out the way so many observers expected. Instead of reforming in liberalizing the Chinese communist party has deepened authoritarianism and in an era of globalization is turning its authoritarian practices and values outward over time Beijing has refined scaled up its instruments of influence and with them the ability to manipulate the political landscape of countries beyond its borders. To discuss these global influence ambitions were pleased to welcome to the power three point Oh podcast. Maria Oberg a senior fellow in the Asia program at the German Marshall Fund. Together with Clive Hamilton, she is the Co. author of the Book Hidden Hand Exposing The Chinese Communist Party is reshaping the World Morocco, thanks for joining us from Berlin. I, Shanta Hi Chris. Thanks so much for having me on here. So why don't we start with current events recently, the mood in Europe toward relations with the pse seems to have shifted and the most recent example of this is a controversial trip to Taiwan by check delegation led by their Senate President, which is provoked strong reactions, not only in China but also at home in Europe, I was wondering if you could describe what you're seeing in Berlin and how this might relate to some of the big themes that you've explored in your book. So, the check example is really quite remarkable because the Czech Republic has had gone back and forth on China a couple of times from a very critical stands to the president trying to seek closer relations with the Chinese government and the CCP. But now check civil society the Senate parliamentarians really rejecting Matt Approach and having had enough with the pressure that China has tried to put on the Czech Republic in the run-up to this visit China threatened Republic Saginaw. If you do this, if you go there, we will retaliate against your companies and they actually went so far as to list specific companies now instead of. What what happened was this letter eventually became public and that's really something that we have seen a lot more often during the pandemic that a lot of countries are kind of have had it and more willing to go public when they're being threatened behind closed doors by the Chinese government, the C. C. P.. But by and large I mean I guess you'RE A. Europe is very ambivalent towards China on the one hand I think an increasing number of governments have really had an especially their experience through have namic after having helped China, fairly quietly behind the scenes being inundated with requests from the Chinese government to thank China publicly in exchange for what was often actually faulty p PP faulty equipment has really led to some fatigue and a lot of governments at the same time especially, the larger countries such as Germany such as France they are still interested in keeping good relations making sure that their own companies on the Chinese marquette aren't suffering. So there's the billet relationship that informs European. China policy and we'll really see where where labs. It seems like in reaction to this recent incident with the check visit to Taiwan, you started to see a little bit of a different reaction from some of the bigger European countries. And a willingness to speak publicly about their displeasure at the Czech Republic being threatened in showing some solidarity. Do you think this is part of a larger trend? I do think it's part of Europe getting his act together on China and basically I mean anybody who has worked on this topic including myself. But also many other China scholars have been saying for years like you know when one of your member states gets threaten your reaction can't be yeah it's not us your reaction has to be Oh, next time it be off so Now. We really have to band together and show solidarity and I'm I'm really happy to actually see even though slowly the these recommendations that we have been making being put into practice through these more recent examples. I think that's good and if Europe can keep it up, it's not the only thing. This is not gonna fix everything, but it's good to see this happening now. Morocco your book takes what is really a sweeping look at a whole range of sectors and institutions from think tanks and thought leaders to the cultural sphere political elites, both in national capitals in regions of countries you're examining it's really quite remarkable. How extensive China's engagement is I wonder if you just take a minute to explain what's really the problem China's engaging, they're pursuing their interests and preferences. What is it that democracies societies should really be concerned about if you were to focus in on say the two or three key issues of concern. I see three issues. One is there as a symmetry in the effort is being put to this Chinese side w. what other countries are doing? It's a lot more systematic. Was P. has set up this whole network of Hearty to party diplomacy making sure to work with the opposition in addition to working with the parties empower local diplomacy the party institutions they usually amazed at how little effort Western countries put into that local diplomacy in that, they don't have a whole department dedicated to that, but maybe one or two people at the city level. So it's a lot more organized could say ain't that's still legitimate even though. I would argue with Western countries were working with China's provinces with the explicit purpose of working against the central government. The Chinese government would have strong opinions on that, but you can say, okay, that's that's fine to me. It really becomes a problem when those networks are used to exert pressure behind the scenes without transparency in hidden threats. Letter is being sent to people saying if you don't do as we please, we will retaliate against your your national companies. So really the fact that the Chinese government has this power that countries do feel they need to be on the Chinese market and the willingness to use that economic coercion. That that is really where it becomes problematic also because a lot of that simply doesn't become public. So there's this huge ongoing pressure behind the scenes and then the third thing that I usually point out when people ask me. So what's the problem as a healthy? Not Value Neutral I, do look at what countries are trying to achieve. So I do make a distinction between. The German government or the French government or any other government having a local initiative in China to build democratic institutions, which they can't they can't do that anymore. But you know or to have a dialogue to to improve the legal system in the goals that Bussey CPI pursues was essentially is making the world safer for itself by getting people become more accepting and embracing of its own authoritarian norms, and in that case you say look I'm not value neutral I think the purpose behind that is not im- interest of anyone who is dedicated to democratic institutions separation of power to. transparency. And the the goals that are being pursued are simply not in our interest. So I, that's the third point that I usually mate I think that's why we should really pay attention to virus and. Get a better grip of what is happening says to be able to counter. And so today compared even with just a few years ago I would say that many countries have a better grip on what's happening and the risks says well as the potential rewards of engaging with China and shot the alluded to the recent visit of the Senate leader to Taiwan not all that long ago. The mayor probe took a similarly bold stance with respect to an issue concerning sister cities arrangement that he had with city. In China and I'd like to ask him America at this stage with awareness raising and more sensitivity to this engagement. What do you feel is the next step in the responses is understanding it said fission can talking about it, which I think we've done now in a pretty significant way in an important way. But what would you put towards the top of the list in terms of the next steps beyond recognition of the problem? I mean I still think one understanding is still important and I don't think I mean I think I feel like an hour bubble with circles that you and I about we live in a lot of people are aware of it I don't know that it's necessarily the case where are you now once we look outside our bubble also I do think getting civil society at large on board and continuing to fix our quote unquote chat literally that remains morten but nonetheless I think you're absolutely right Just stop at saying and now we we understand the now it's all good. It does require governments to come together all levels of civil society to come together at the at the university level at the media level at cultural institutions and really figure out proper codes of conduct for how to be able to if you WANNA keep engaging with China and I don't think that all engagement necessarily has to stop but you have to be aware of what the other side wants and how accountants I think this really is going to have to result and codes of conduct of what you want to achieve with US engagement with. China you can't just help engagement engagement sake or for the old reason that was trotted out for so long that will change because clearly the has worked against that but you know what are you codes of conduct such as transparency such as making sure that when one in the group is of hat, there's actually a show of solidarity like when you have a delegation to China of academics and one of the academics doesn't get a visa what should the reaction be in? I? Think quite frankly the reaction should be that nobody's going now just to figure out how to push back against the strategy disappears pursuing, which is Reno. Isolated. A few examples of them. Those of the bad people they have done something. Wrong. So now we're GONNA punish them and give everybody else on incentive not to repeat that quote unquote. That, they need. So this can really only be countered a very broad solidarity by pointing it out and saying look, you can't just hit out against one country against one member of the delegation against one media organization. If you do that, we're gonNA stand together and that's really a very important principle alongside other principle such as. As already mentioned transparency if you have any agreements like if you sign an emo you with Chinese is the default has to be to make public make as much information public as possible map the networks that the Chinese side is building up considering maybe having not only consider I think was actually pretty vital having an incident tracker for repressive incidences when the Chinese side dust threatened someone, which often doesn't become public unless you know that person decides to go public usually. I. Find Out when I talked people that this. Has happened from them personally, but they may not want to go public. So track what's happening and half this collected more systematically so that you can get a better picture of how much threatening and behind doors coercion is actually going on but also that you can band together and find a way to counter it. So I think there's really a lot of headway that we still have to make to be able to better deal with was going on without having to shut ourselves off completely, which is also not a solution. Series an interesting dynamic because I think some of that awareness raising is happening around the world in various countries at the national level. But to return to appoint that, you'd made earlier at the local level, those politicians and civil society organizations to glee don't know so much about China and they don't see themselves as having responsibility for national security as you point out in your book. So the focus there is on economic and cultural ties and these local level officials and institutions can basically say there's no political element, but you say pretty straight forwardly in your book that Beijing Logic for subnational. Influences pretty clear cut, and that Beijing actually sees the cultivation of local level contacts as helping to smooth the way for investment in strategic. Assets. Poured Sir Regional Airports Satellite Development military bases, agricultural developments, and so on. So there actually is a strong national security component that can be hidden there and I wanted to ask you a little bit about how this is played out as you've seen it and I know you cite this one example of Duisburg Germany which has partnered with hallway to become a smart city. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that. Sure Kind of a classic example of CPI data local diplomacy. The German government does not sign on to the belt and road initiative. It is opposed to at the very least very ambivalent towards that's what the has been doing as has been looking for local partners. So the governments that will actually you know sign onto, it will publicly endorsed the Bolton Road Initiative the strategy itself, it's called using countryside truce around the city you could call it that so using local actors or other smaller actress to surround the Center off power so that at one point you know once all of the cities are on board the Federal Government can actually say, okay, fine we endorse to. Let's larger strategy behind that, but it's a classic in many other ways you know you can. You can, of course, argue that from the perspective this has beneficial to them I think it's questionable. That's entirely beneficial but I understand where they're coming from yet at the same time, you see a lot of the issues that are typical one being should a Chinese company like, Wow, way bill the smart city infrastructure should be the case or doesn't that have larger ramifications for the security of the infrastructure we know that the bigger the bigger problem the other has transparency. The sign with low A. after after a resident of the mayor to China and that that's not even public. So I mean I. don't even know that there is anything warble hiding in there, but I can't even get that public because while way doesn't want it to be public. So you know you have really a lot of problems one being using local actors to try to overcome resistance of the federal government against. The Belt and road initiative the other as you now initiative as being passed without really good way for the federal government to check on that that are in my opinion, not ideal from the infrastructure perspective from giving access to a company that in essence needs to cooperate with the Chinese Ministry of State. Security giving them that access to build something. So significant that has access to a lot of data and then the third one. Of transparency per se that you know I can't even look up a lot of details that I as a citizen might WanNa know. So that really all goes to show that even though I understand that local governments, they have their own interests and some of them are legitimate. It's the way that this has been going and the lack of reflection on what bigger issues you're deciding. We can no longer afford to do that. So we need to come up with better. Solutions here, and that doesn't necessarily mean you know the federal government should be allowed to block everything but it does mean that more information is needed and better coordination is needed in a better strategy that goes beyond. Oh. We got this requests than it looks really good. So we're going to say yes. So you just be more strategic you say, yes, you have everything consider any national security implications and consider the larger picture and that is what we still have to get. Yeah. I mean. You know even just a little bit of poking around will identify how? Smart City Development is actually a key strategic priority that's been highlighted as part of the belt and road initiative and I was looking through a US China Economic and Security Review Commission report from earlier this year on China. Smart Cities Development, and they really lay out all of these issues pretty clearly but those types of insights don't often get to the local level and so there seems to be some kind of an information gap there. Precisely and I don't have the perfect solution. Again, the solution can be to give the federal government the power to block everything. But, both sides have to be willing to work with each other on this one. I think on the local level simply needs to be better awareness office even if it's just individuals cities getting together to talk about this fig route. Codes of conduct interacting with Chinese counterparts that itself would also ready to be a big step forward in trying to work out amongst one another how to deal with these kinds, requests out of the all with the belt and road initiative at the local level just become more strategic about at around vent, saying Oh there is economic opportunity here. So of course, we're going to say, yes, because even though they may be some prophet, the the costs may be a lot higher and in the end, the actual opportunities may not be as high as I. Think we see in the cases of a lot of on road projects around the world that perhaps. The city's the places, the countries where they are. They're not actually benefiting as much as they had hoped. And this point you just made Morocco's one that Martin Hullah made in a report produced called new invisible hand talking about what we're in essence non-economic costs economic engagement with China which I think as you suggest many of underappreciated and haven't quite figured out how to devise the right formula to make that sort of assessment. On that subject I'd like to ask you because so much of the assumptions with various partnerships and interactions that have emerged over the years with China have been based on economics and business. I was struck in your book on how much you focus on what might be called the ideas ecosystem and here I would include in it. The think tanks thought leaders that you look at various. Media initiatives political elites, and maybe you could just give us a sense of why it is. The Chinese authorities are so keen to invest in and focus on this ideas ecosystem within democratic societies. Right. So one thing that we kind of tried in this book to look at this, the way that the CCP looks at us and one thing that I think is important to understand Iva. You know just economic coercion and trying to set up alternative frameworks like the belt Roud reading is how much of the ambition off the C. P. is focused towards reshaping ideas and how people think and talk about of course, about China about anything that is of interest to this easy be this began being discussed in China it's been discussed over the last couple of decades under the Label of ideological security the larger idea he being look in the nineteen nineties after the Cold War not found itself on a world that was kind of hostile towards the remaining dictatorships and the initial reaction to that was you know we're going to have to institute patriotic education for our own citizens. We have to make sure that we have Internet censorship that as China adopted the Internet. Censorship that you had all the instruments associated with what's known as the great firewall so that you kind of heightened what information comes into China, but over the years, the idea spread the party that you know you can't really always fight off ideas at your own border in order to gain the initiative and to be more proactive, you really have to take a fight beyond your borders and you have to win the war of ideas, the war over global public opinion outside your own border. So then when you gain acceptance worldwide. For the idea that democracy is the system of the past that might have been a good idea in the twentieth century, but it's really not it's not equipped to cope with the problems of the twenty, th century whereas our system. The one that we have is precisely the system for the twenty first century. If you gain wide acceptance for that globally, then you don't have to worry so much anymore about what kind of hostile horrible ideas trickle through your great file all you beasley controlling the global debate at a much higher level it. Sounds, very, very ambitious, and by that I, don't mean that the CPA is hoping to turn every country in the world into an autocratic system like itself but it does win a half acceptance and respect for the political ideas that it stands for and Mrs Wyatt is investing so much into anything that has impact on how people think and talk about these concepts about larger issues of governance. That's why such a large focus it is a key part of the party's long-term ideological security that it considers vital to be able to stay in power. And I think you've raised a really important point and a fine distinction between this idea that the authorities in Beijing necessarily want to replicate their model on the one hand which some people believed to be the case and on the other as your I think saying, simply want to neutralize or undermine the idea at other systems. Democratic systems in particular are effective and therefore ensure a greater degree of security for regime interests in China. Precisely. I mean again, if some countries adopt aspects of the tiny system, this is a p isn't gonNA complain about that. But this is not the main goal. This is not about wholesale systematic expert off the Chinese system of governance to countries around the world. In part this is happening, but this is not the main goal. It really is about acceptance and changing the debate changing how people talk about the Chinese system and making sure that there is global support for that can then trickle back into China and reading Busse regime security at home, and of course, in all things that China does around the world, it also helps if you've seen as legitimate. Great political system in a nationally route venue now has outcast problematic dictatorship, but the main audience here is at home to secure a long-term regime security in China. So we've spent some time talking about how democracies can make themselves more resilient to authoritarian interference and you talk about all the different lovers in your book, including ways in which Jiang tries to coerce and mobilized diaspora populations and I just have to point out. We are really sadly an undeniably unfortunately in a climate of xenophobia nationalism around the world. So I WANNA ask you how democratic societies can ensure their being vigilant about authoritarian interference, but also safeguard the rights of minority and immigrant populations, and you know particularly people have Chinese heritage living in Europe how can their rights be safeguarded and how can we ensure that democracies actually huge their own principles in? Addressing authoritarian interference again, I think it's really important to focus on some key principles encountering this meaning transparency countering China, illiteracy that includes this point menaced being consistently put out that the C. C. P. Stands for China stands for the Chinese people. It's just you know recently reiterated that there is no separation between China and the CCP. So Canada that quite vocally and to ensure that no, the C. P. is is one party. It's an important part has a lot power in China, but it is not China to look towards solidarity education in some cases I mean, I think are are some issues that a hard to solve such as you know technology? Transfer. But again, I think mayor with more information more scrutiny a better understanding of the institutions that the party us to approach others a lot can already be done. Our tendency is you know we have this debate about Chinese influence which I don't I call it TCP influence because I think it puts the focus on the party unfortunately reaction as you go for the people that don't have a lot power and that can't really fight back. So instead of criticizing the powerful institutions that actually make decisions that are bad for democracy such as criticizing university. Administration. For cooperating with party let universities in China, people like to the point at Chinese people inside you. Know there was real problems. Another not scrutinized the decisions of the people who have power in a society and try to change what they do. Don't go for people who may or may not support the at home I don't even care I. Think there is a people Chinese hard-edged they have a very broad range of us on the party's some people have fled from the party. Some don't particularly like the party, but feel that China is being unfairly portrayed in western media as a really broad range but don't go for people that don't have a lot of power and I. Think if everybody keeps that principle in mind a lot of that is already solved. And I think there really is you know if you're looking at institutions, there is quite a bit of ground that institutions can cover simply from their own policies that would go along way towards addressing some of these questions and that's not something I think we've really seen happening and mass far. Now it's a difficult problem to address, and for Manny institutions it is also simply costly address because yes a lot of institutions benefit from those corporations with party institutions. So it's not natural interest to try to question that. That is what is going to have to happen, and it's going to happen at a civil society level because I don't think there really is a great solution that is top down from now a federal government in regardless in which country this is GonNa. This is GonNa have to come from civil society itself and trying to solve these problems. Governments can do stuff to facilitate this biden. Most of it's GonNa have to be bottom up rather than top down. Before we wrap up our conversation I'd like to conclude with our final segment called. Got We're reading where we discuss what's at the top of our respective reading lists and Mike Becca mentor listeners. Why don't we start with? Markelle Michael What are you reading? One of my reading I'm reading is mind in Jerusalem by Hannah ironed because I am currently going through a phase where I'm trying to understand more about you know complicity how these things happen. So that is what I'm currently reading. Then next up on my reading list is stories of the Sahara by the author some mile that was translated by my friend Mike that that is what is up next. Great. Thanks for that in Chunky what are you reading? So I'm reading a new report called authoritarian shadows in the European Union by the tank political capital. It's the culmination of a year long research project the cover, the foreign policy, related votes of members of the European Parliament in the current parliamentary cycle and focuses in particular on seven central and South Eastern. European countries. You have the visit for the Czech Republic. Hungary Poland Slovakia as well as Austria Romanian Bulgaria, and it's interesting because it tries to quantify the vulnerability to authoritarian influence including by the Russian Federation and the PR see. So they have a number of interesting findings one of which is that outside authoritarian powers like Russia and China usually have a more challenging time influencing European institutions, the national institutions and related -Ly Authoritarian Prussia within the European Union is. Seemingly, effectively applied through member states via bilateral connections rather than through the European Union they also found that while the European Parliament seems generally more resilient as an institution to outside authoritarian powers, pressure fringe parliamentary groups on the far right and the far left or the most supportive of authoritarian regimes. So there are many other interesting findings I won't go through all of them that I do recommend checking it out. And for my part, I'm reading the Chinese Communist Party's coercive diplomacy a report by Fergus, Hanson Amelia Curry and tracey beatty that was recently published by the Australian. Strategic Policy Institute the report explains how the P. is increasingly using coercive diplomacy against foreign governments and companies. This form of diplomacy isn't well understood in countries in companies have struggled to develop effective responses to push back against it. The report tracks the CCP's use, of course diplomacy over the past decade identifying more than one hundred and fifty cases of such diplomacy affecting twenty seven countries as well as the European Union. The data show that there's been a sharp escalation. In these tactics since two thousand eighteen, the report makes clear that this is a global phenomenon, the regions and countries that recorded the most instances of this problem over the last decade include Europe North, America Australia, New Zealand in East Asia. According to the authors a coordinated and sustained international effort by foreign governments in companies would include among other measures increase global situational awareness about the widespread use of course of diplomacy in the most effective strategies to counter it and responses Marshall through coordinated joint pushback through multilateral forums and Bhai buildings smaller coalitions of states affected by these coercive methods. This is a timely publication, well, worth reading. Well. Thank you very much for joining us today on the podcast. Thanks so much again for having me. Shanty. That's all for today's episode of the power three point. Oh, podcast for more on the topic, we discussed today with reading hidden hand exposing how the Chinese Communist Party is reshaping the world co-authored by Clive Hamilton America Oberg released this fall here in the US for further analysis of the themes we discussed today will be examining and future podcast episodes. visit our blog power three point zero understanding modern authoritarian influence. We also invite you to join the conversation with us on facebook and twitter reaction. Find US using the handle at think democracy. Additional resources are available on the net website at www dot e. d. dot. Org Slash ideas. If you enjoy today's show please rate us on itunes Google play or whichever podcast APP cues. Special thanks to our podcast production team at the International Form Producer, Jessica Ludwig and our editing and sound engineer Rochelle Faust. I'm Shontae Club deal with Christopher Walker and Morocco Oberg. We. Hope you enjoyed this discussion on China the party in the world and invite you to tune in again for future power three point Oh podcasts.

Taiwan Chinese Communist Party China Europe Chinese government Federal Government Czech Republic Beijing US Senate Morocco German government China Christopher Walker China Morocco Oberg European Union Clive Hamilton European Parliament
A Royal Pool Party

In The Limelight

46:18 min | 1 year ago

A Royal Pool Party

"Hello and welcome to in the limelight. Vani pairs, entertainment and pop culture podcast. I'm just to Vanity Fair senior writer in here. It's really Miller Vanity Fair senior Hollywood writer. We analyze the ins and outs of culture entertainment and celebrity from the past week from the Kardashians to Kate Middleton and everything in between. We are going to get into a Harry Meghan, Royal tour of Morocco this past weekend, which came immediately on the heels of her A-List baby shower in New York last week. We're also gonna check in with Kate Middleton who had a sort of fun outing with George and Charlotte this week. And we're also granted disgust, Bradley Cooper and lady Gaga is I guess chemistry at the Oscars on Sunday, you'll start with Cade. Yes. I think this is one of our this feels like in the sweet spot to me of Josh. And Julie preferred Royal anecdotes where it involves a Royal doing something that's kind of borderline normal and ordinary, but it's constructed out of all these really odd details that we get from an anonymous. Source. So it makes it sound either like super scandalous or somehow controversial even though it's like could not be more of a pedestrian event. This reminds me of that dog park tale from a few weeks ago where someone asked George what his name was. And he said Archie. This sort of like the real vibe to some of these things so Kate Middleton. So we should note that this event we're about to describe took place on the day before Meghan shower. So if you're if you're wondering exactly what Meghan was doing while, Serena Williams Amal Clooney at all descended upon New York. She was going to the spa with George and Charlotte in London. We'll get into that more later the timing of all this. So this was an event that the Daily Mail. I guess must have gotten a tip from a source. It's all from one sort of anonymous source who I guess must have been at the spa at the same time as Kate it's deemed a luxury spa, and it's close to where they were staying Amna hall, which is in the queen's property at Sandringham. So Kate was reportedly decked out for this, swimming, expedition, and the quote that the source gave who saw K George in Charlotte. At this spa, this wing pool was that she was wearing quote full makeup, Pearl earrings and her conic engagement ring, which sounded like what I would text Julie. If I at the swimming pool watching Kate or anyone pretty much. I love this. She's like a real life. Paper doll like you can swap out the outfits, but she's always going to have a full face makeup. I wanted to ask you is. That is I feel like I needed the female perspective here on is wearing full makeup and earlier in the pool. Strange. It doesn't seem that crazy to me. But maybe the Pearl earring. Seems we nuts and crazy to you. Well, I don't know. The full make-up. Maybe she was wearing makeup for something else. And then they went to the pool. We'll give her that benefit of the doubt. Maybe she has some sort of lunch and beforehand and didn't have time to change. And also like the airings and engagement ring one of the seams. She's always wearing right, right? But if this was the only thing on her. For the day. Then the seem like a dressy outfits for the casual taking the kids to the pool expedition. Okay. Let's keep going because it's so good. So she brought yours and Charlotte. This is their week off from school. She was wearing a Meru we okay, first of all four I get into all of this. There is a level of detail about this probably what like half hour. I guess it's the says half hour the fact that we know exactly how long they were there. Like, this source was just kind of watching imagining with Benach, yours and note pad, and maybe like a recording device of some kind because there's so a timer to because there's so much detail about what went on here that like I couldn't even describe it. I did yesterday with this level of detail. So it's kind of insane rate. Do you think this was like the lifeguard towel, boys? Someone at the snack stand and other guest. I like to imagine it was the lifeguard. I could see the lifeguard. Lifeguards don't. Much to do a lot of the time. Right. I mean, why not this into a little Daily Mail payoff? Okay. So Kate was wearing a maroon swimsuit. She tried to blend in -mongst relaxing couples. Onlookers quickly spotted the family during their half hour. Splash about Kate apparently organized swimming races for the children and afterwards. They practice little dives off the side. The trio then went into the sauna and steam room managing this lifeguard like jumping off the chair following them like in sort of like homeland or whatever like staying right behind the corner. So peering around, you know, tailing them. Okay. So this is what the on looker said. This is a quote Kate looked stunning. She had full makeup on Wall Street was in the pool, and she had dropped Pearl earrings and her engagement ring, her hair up in a butterfly type hair clip. And she looked extremely elegant. So actually this is supporting Julie's stance. I probably am now agreeing. More to that. This is a little weird that she was this stressed up. Maybe I mean, even like dynasty style. So per I don't think the main characters would be wearing a Pearl drop earing deal in their kids. Right. Like a glam. I don't even know what kind of glam swimming session when might have. But this wasn't that. But I kind of love it. And I love she was organizing swimming races. Like, how tiger mom of her? Envisioning this lifeguard. Just zeroed in on this trio and not paying attention to anyone else in the swimming pool completely neglecting, his actual paid duties, they're such good. Call to instilling this competitive spirit at this early age like organizing races. But I just can't get over this. Kate look stunning because there ever been a more flattering description of someone like in the throes of it with their kids at the pool like doing races and jumping around you would think that was like the scripture of someone entering the met ball or something. Anyway, truly insane level detail continues the children are very well behaved and both are practicing their diving from the side. Kate was organizing these little races for them. And they did it around four or five times. She said quote, READY STEADY. Go ended a downward chopping action in the water to indicate the start of the race. So this is like a full on like NASCAR style. Surprised? She didn't have the checkered flag some sort of scoreboard, apparently, George, okay. This gets a little like interesting here we get the results of the races. Apparently, George naturally. This is all the Daily Mail won all the races. They said he was swimming front like a dog, paddle style and jumping in from squatting position on the side, Julius recoiling at this level of detail. Charlotte was doing sitting dives. She was squatting on the side with their arms up in dive position. She kept saying. Look mummy. I'm diving in which remind. This parenthetical script is incredible go, Josh, maybe. 'cause also we're gonna be talking about Bradley and Gaga this on my mind. But look, mommy, I'm diving in made me wonder, if Charlotte's listening to the star is born soundtrack very shallow as show reference. K was very encouraging. I mean, can we believe are still going with these details? Kate was very encouraging at one point George went under in Kate had to grab him. He became a bit tearful and clung to her. But then he soon went off again, both the children's swam on aided and we're super confident they went under the quite forceful jets in the water k- politely asked us. We're getting a little bit of insight into the source was here if it was okay for them to switch it on. So whoever it was Kate somehow asked permission to turn on these jets. Imagine if someone said, no when Kate house to turn on the jets who has ever monitored anyone this closely, then the timer really comes out because we actually get some minute counts. The children tried to jump in the water Kate frequently indicated no and shook her finger, and then she pointed out the no diving signs to both children who then seem to Ps. So there. Rule abiding then they went into the steam room and sauna for four or five minutes each. I mean, four or five minutes each. So that's like you're really looking down at your iphone for that. I just I still can't get over this level of detail Kate in full makeup reminds me so much of a Bravo. Real housewives cast member. Those are the only figures I can see walking into a spa in full male. Agreed Laurie also the there's just a lot going on here. So they wanted to use the jets than they each go into the sauna steam room for four to five minutes each. You and I do not take down that level of detail in our party. I don't think if we were like American style CIA agents or operatives we would be taken down that level of detail. Movie speaks more to our laws. Fair attitude about everything, but it's interesting because usually and I'm going to speak for both of us here on go out on a limb. I think we love this level of detail these things, but for some reason, I don't know why in this particular port I felt very protective. I don't know. What is what I'm going through my life. That's changed my tune here. But this this a lot just like timing down to the minute where they're going in the steam room, and then also the like behavior, and the jumping and like what Charlotte staying when she jumps in like someone has like a, you know, a megaphone. You know, what I mean, I don't know just felt like a little a little wild. That said like I wall somewhat this source to call. Us. So we can like even dig deeper. So I'm like, right. I think it was the level of detail about the kids, right? We we live for the Cates. Dejust but six maybe that's what it is. Like hearing about how the kids are confident and the kids were getting tearful, and like just like the ups and downs of what the kids were experiencing truly would this make you more or less excited? If Kate Middleton was going to invite you along for like a swimming outing. This makes me a little bit nervous that to say. So you have to dress up for it. It sounds like she might make you race like who could tell like, she might make you kind of get off the diving board, we need to pack our swimming, goggles and Cavs like, I would definitely be nervous. And I love the cheese. Just calling the shots. She does not give off alpha vibes to me. But here the chopping action that she was giving in the water. I think I'm going to have dreams about that READY STEADY. Go very maybe the title for this episode. I'm guessing. I feel like she really just exactly she's making the this is not you can't just sit by the pool takeout. Your book. Listen to a podcast or to. She has you in the water. You're saying your sibling getting behind those jets going to the steam room. I feel like it's all very ordered which does seem sort of Kate. I guess I'm a little surprised to though. But okay, alternate theory. Do you think she knew about Megan's trip, and she was very stressed in the stress for whatever reason was manifesting in her putting the kids through these like adjust. How did I love that? Also, do think Kate William Harry and Meghan ever been in a situation where they've all been swimming at the same time, I guess probably not probably not and definitely not after Megan hears about this report, can you even imagine Megan would have to intervene. I was wondering what Megan's vibe would be with in this kind of setting, and I feel like she would be very like chilling, by the beach. I don't really see her. Swimming, race style vibe as much. No, she would be talking to them about talking to kids about I don't know. She'd be sure she'd go in and splash around maybe wearing some nice sun hat or something. Yes sunglasses. I don't see her. She wouldn't be doing the diamond drop earing vibe in the pool. Now, it sounds like Cates at nine even get her hair wet, I guess, you could mess up that below out. Right. I feel like I wonder if something I wonder what else was going around at this day. It also sounds very Reggie just the whole they were they weren't going into relaxed. They were going in to get their swimming. I know nothing about this report is relaxing at all. But I guess I commend whoever phone the Sen.. Has been a staff member. I mean, just the asking about the jets also makes me think now it's a staff member to because why would she ask I don't know it just feels like that's like you're asking someone who works there is it. Okay. If we turn on the jets are set by the jets, right or else. Kate is just so not used to being unaided in the real world. She was asked Austin civilian, right? Just happened to be sitting there. Like is this? Okay there like, yeah. I'm surprised I've always the prize. I guess I get why they want to have some level of normalcy for the kids, but just given the security risks and everything like I'm surprised they don't clear out the pool for them. I know I mean you, and I would have a hard time getting an assuming suit in front of total strangers, and we are not public figures. Right. I just feel like there's also when I covered that event that Kate William went to a New York years ago. There were such intense. Purity we all have our bags checked. We all I'm just curious. I guess they must have done some sort of security sweep before they were allowed in. I would assume I don't know. It's. Wow. All right. Let's move onto what Harry and Meghan got up to after Megan's New York extravaganza. Right. So Meghan Harry landed in Morocco Saturday for the last Royal tour before becoming parents the couple were visiting CASA Blanca as knee and robotic during the three day trip. I might have mispronounced those I'm sorry. If I did Royal aides confirmed that they were spending the night at one of the king of Morocco, Royal residences as private guests. The couple kept up Meghan fast. New York City shower pace carrying out seven engagements over two days, the itinerary focused on organizations that support young women and girls in particular and has been deemed a great success by aids in courtiers. I'm sure everybody now has seen the photo of Megan Harry, as they're landing Meghan looks incredibly polished, and we're she's. A red dress with blush accessories, a little clutch and high heels, but was noticeably walking behind Harry as they were making their way out of the airport. Josh did you notice that that was a really weird video? I think someone sent I couldn't tell if that was sort of custom that one must adhere. I dunno seemed very structured regimented. So I feel like someone must have said that her right? But given the shower I was reading maybe Harry was like a little miffed, and they had a little fight on the airplane. Let's go with that. My theory is much more boring. They couple rejoined on the tour by nine strong entourage, including two assistant private secretaries. Three communications officers digital officer a logistics officer in a program coordinator. Style reality show of whatever house or hotel those nine people stay in doing this kind of tour. I'd love to the all their interactions everything. They're talking about while this is all going on. I would love that would be the best possible below deck scenario of people who have to wait for the herb work for the royals rather. There were a bunch of highlights all photo ops. Again, what is life lake when you are just go from one to the? Megan took part in a Hennessy. Ramon making cooks Meghan, Harry pedal horse and they went to the king's palace. Let's get a little bit deeper into each of these with the cooking, and this is per Royal reporter omens Gobi for Harper's bazaar. The couple spent an afternoon with Moroccan, chef Dr Moja, Megan Harry, cooked, Moroccan pancake recipe from her own cookbook. I love Julie. With children from underprivileged backgrounds and disabled staff who work at a specially designed restaurant in the capital of robot. They'll be so proud to see this Meghan said we'll chatting with Moja about her collaboration with the women of west London's hub community kitchen. The message has traveled far clutching assigned to copy of her book. Mojo later told reporters, she has an amazing heart. So Megan gave the chef assigned copy of her cookbook. There is God knows a photo of Megan's severely slanted calligraphy like wishing best. Yes. She had written a little inscription. He told the couple that he would like to cook for them. The next time they visit Morocco. Megan agreed gestured her baby bump and replied, maybe for the whole family next time. So after they finished the pancake. Everybody looked to Harry, take a bite, and he. Takes. He rolls up the pancake. First of all I've never seen. Anyone a pancake like this? And he takes this horse is Chong out of this rolled up pancake. Megan says something to me after he takes the Biden has begun shoeing like a bit of a big bite there. And he says he stops chewing his mouth is full says a bit late now. And then she took like a very lady like bite after and said, very good. I need to hear you describe all eating styles after hearing that horse like Shaam description. I kind of love it. I also someone posted a photo. What it must have been on one of the Harry magazine counts I follow or I don't know if someone follow on Twitter posted this, but it was like them getting in the car after this, and Harry had kind of a very satisfied smirk. And they really that's the that's the sign of a well-fed man or something like the whole thing was kind of bizarre. I feel like he really have been starving. They also took a helicopter ride to visit a charity supporting women's education while they're Meghan received the aforementioned henna tattoo flowers running down her forearm hand and pointed finger during the process Harry sat next to Megan with his arm around. Her force supports one of the house. Mothers Kadisha could to said it's for one. We have a big party. Now she's pregnant we do the Henan to keep her happy with the baby for good luck. Everybody was just astounded by Megan's energy that she could be doing all of these stops and helicopter rides and cooking demonstrations while seven and a half months pregnant, the British ambassador to Morocco Thomas Riley, said her energy is boundless. Here's a woman jumping into a helicopter to fly fifteen hundred meters high still smiling and ready to do it all ready to push issues that matter no bad energy. Ah corollary. Omid Scooby got a hold of a friend of the duchesses who gave an incredible quote. I can't wait to get Joshua's read on it. She said that Megan's feeling so great and her final trimester that's super MAG for you, giving it her all her energy levels have never failed to impress me. Josh, I need a full analysis. I mean. Egg is like I can't believe we haven't come across anyone using that before they're so much talk about energy with Megan. And this podcast is obviously the number one called Brit of this. But I guess she's to put that out into the world with our no bed energy mantra. And then we had that member that surfing thing where they did the. Bad bad five or anti bad, vibes dance, or whatever it was. And then this quote, I feel like Meghan is just one of these people that maybe it's like, the California nece also the California energy. I feel like no one ever talks about like any other royals in terms of this like energy metric, it's very Meghan based. Her energy levels have never failed to impress me. Actually. I have to say I was thinking during this towards kind of crazy that this all happened the same week as all the New York wildness, and it was like she just wanted. I can barely get through one day at work without having to take like another day to like just sit at home and watching that flex like the fact that she is like bouncing from this whole New York thing to all these like crazy stops Morocco. So many like having to put on the good faith for the tattoo for the cooking. I'm just I don't know. I I would hope she's taking the next two weeks to just to nothing though. I guess you already house appearance scheduled. So who knows according to Katie Nicholl? The Queen is also impressed by the stamina a source told her for the Queen and her generation he generally hit your bump and put your feet up in the stage of pregnancy. Megan hasn't stopped there may w-. Will be a letter waiting for the Duke and duchess when they return as the source. She respects hard work and loyalty above everything apparently courtiers and the trip have also commented on Megan's, serious, stamina and her impressive work ethic. Josh are you surprised? We haven't heard more about the baby shower. Actually, I'm wondering if some of this is like, I just thought of this. But late the Morocco tour. It wasn't all. And I don't know how far in advance all this stuff with plan. But I feel like we kind of moved on from this shower quickly in terms of the media because we got the Morocco tour like I feel like that was timed almost pretty well. Right. Because there were initially some things from like Diana's former secretary, and there was another kind of a few columns on the Daily Mail. I saw that were like and other British outlets. I forget which one the other one had one where it was like kind of analyzing with a very. Optical view, the whole extravagance of the shower. But then I feel like we got everything about the Morocco tour. So it almost feels like that has helped sweep away some of the showers stuff. Right. I know kind of ingeniously planned Megan did if she had pulled out her datebook and said, okay, let's do it here. And then immediately after right omits Gobi. I thought it was a little bit curious wrote. That's Meghan really took the lead. He wrote in one of his reports Prince Harry already established as a humanitarian force of his own often. Lead Meghan take the lead during their nine Moroccan engagements leaning into her ear periodically to see if his wife was feeling okay. Along the way reminded me of from the in the people magazine story where they fade, you know, with friends that like, she sometimes writes, not only her remarks, but Harry's to right? I know there. I don't really. Really pushing that angle I feel like even if it is true. I feel like he needs to make a step. He needs to not be second fiddle here. He's the the actual Royal. There's another another little story. I guess Harry had a very dad joke moments. A local till the couple I wished to say, congratulations for your pregnancy. Harry responded what you're pregnant to Meghan. Is it mine Meghan played along by responding with surprise, surprisingly like PG thirteen joke for the royals? I thought yes, we've been doing the throw while. I can't remember it's obviously not like actually scandalous in terms of like the joke, but it seems risk day, by the standards. Never did. I think Prince Harry would give us a Maury moments. Is it mine? And also, did you watch the video clip of this kind of weird? It's like they're all Meghan surprise. The timing is good. It's almost like they're ready for variety show or something with this comic timing very like Radha tat, but it's very dead pan, and sort of they aren't really smiling when they say it, it's very weird. It's very dead into deadpan. Humor writes, maybe they were just very very tired. God knows this stuff. We would be saying having to stay at one of these things are more than like twenty minutes. Seriously. They ended their obligations with a visit with king Mohammed the six who thanked the couple for their generosity. He said, I can't think of better ambassadors for the UK. Okay. Well, first of all how about Prince William the Queen Megan responded, but I'm American she blushed at the kind compliment he said will. You're also one of us now. Jams. But also what we Julian I say to each other every night. Yeah. That's interesting. I always wonder like when you when you see that photo of them sitting on those red velvet chairs like was the king. And I'm like, what is this conversation? What does this mall talk? They make. I know. I just seems very awkward. I wish we could be judged by photo ops. Maybe I don't wish that maybe that's no curse. I think people have the general expression of not looking happy. That's like, my rafting expression. I feel like it'd be nervous. Not like indicating that anyway. So that does it for the Royal tour. Mark your calendars for the first week of March, though, there's gonna be a very exciting. Royal reunion for the fiftieth anniversary of the investiture of the prince of Wales Prince Charles at Buckingham Palace. The event will be hosted by Queen and we will see Harry Megan there along with William Kate, Charles. Camila and Princess Anne. Okay. So let's and with a quick check in on the Oscars, Bradley Cooper and lady Gaga performance. At least for me was the lasting sort of high. I don't know. I I watched it again, which I do not ever do with award. Joe these days I like when the war Joe ends, they move on and all mind body spirit. But I actually went back and watched the performance of shallow because I was just so struck by it. Julia. What was your initial take? When you watched it. I think now was on my job was on the floor of the entire performance. Just it was so incident. I felt like I was watching something. I shouldn't be watching. Yeah. I feel like honestly the fact that they came out of the stay out of their seats in the front row with no one introducing them. And then they kind of walked up with just kind of the music during the play was so. Dramatic and what a power move what a power move in the outfit. They're wearing that night. It was like we didn't even need an introduction. Like, how many things can say that at the Oscars like Joe's, can you? Imagine just sitting there and award show, and you grabbed my hand, and we just casually make our way up to the stage to like do a PowerPoint presentation about like Meghan 's like banana bread. Yeah. I mean, actually can weirdly. But yet knowing what you mean daring into each other's. So I also feel like anecdotally, this is the main thing people were interested in talking to me about after the Oscars. Like, I got the most texts and the most sky conversational. I there was a lot went on live your Coleman's, amazing speech and eventually go back and read Julie's cover profile of her for our wards issue of vehicle man who gave it to light full speech when she won. But I feel like other than that. I feel like this was like one of the highlights people. Right. So kind of interesting sort of I guess byproduct is this kind of obsession with if they're together in real life or what's going on between them clearly Bradley Cooper's dating arena Shaya they have a kid. So no one actually, I guess thanks anything's actually happening. But she was sitting and she was sitting between them and Julie having covered many award shows. That's usually I mean, that's something. They clearly worked out in advance. Right. They must have decided that that's sort of the seating arrangement. Wanted. Right, right. I can't imagine. It was just like a like, oh, man. Oh, man. Where are? Yeah. So interestingly, she was between lady Gaga, Bradley Cooper, which definitely seemed to me at least somewhat strategic. If I'm lady Gaga. I would want to sit next Bradley's mother like how cool. And she got me Roberts. So the Daily Mail really just went for it, and typical fashion they ran a, quote, unquote, exclusive report showing photos from one of the after parties of Gog on Bradley and headline says they couldn't keep their hands off each other. I examined all the blurry photos, and that is not my takeaway. It looked pretty standard just the way that they were like engaging with each other. But they're definitely very touchy. And then there's this incredible physician they do where they have kind of side by side of Bradley Gaga. I think she has her hand on his back or he has his hand on her back. And then in the next photo UC arena Shaikh sitting on the couch behind them eating some kind of food. And then the and then the caption says the source that of the after party arena was there, but she just sat on a couch in the shadows. At the back of the room. She didn't look impressed. And it's like the blurry kind of dark photo of someone just like eating on the couch at. A party. So I mean, there's definitely like material to construct this. And I feel like it's going to be like a tabloid story for a little bit. Right. Did you mentioned lady Gaga recently broke up with her fiance before stars? So. I we should note that arena and Gaga did hug at different parts of the thera Mony, you can find some photos where they look very cordial. But the sun noted that she Irena Shaya on followed Gog on Instagram before Sunday in the sun wrote that Irena is understandably sick of reading speculative stories up broadly Gaga being more than just friends. The source said the stories about arena being sick of have some truth to them. It's not that she dislikes Gaga or is jealous of her. But she's sick of the constant stories about our close relationship to broadly, which honestly, I can understand. And I feel like that's something that people have you know, I thought I got an argument with someone about how much of the they're broadening Gaga. Stick is purely performance than arena Shaikh would understand that they're actors, but it's still feels like it'd be weird sit in the front row and watch your partner up there with that way. Right. Well, I'm the Russian supermodel dating, Bradley. Cooper. I would be very angry at him. Just because he's the one who got up on stage walked over to her at the piano sat down and saying cheek-to-cheek. Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely thought they were gonna seemed like they were gonna kiss at the end. Right. I feel like somehow I don't know though, I go back and forth because there's a part of me. That's like this is so wild like their chemistry is off the charts like who performs like that. And then there's the other part of me that thinks this whole promotional tour. They've kind of been like this where it's like these over the top proclamations of affection. And I don't know just like when he went to her Vegas show, and they had that kind of embrace. I mean, it's always kind of weird to me. But I don't know. I'm like is this just like selling why are they even worrying about selling the movie at this point? I know it's a little bit weird. It's definitely weird. I I should note though, that after they went to that Warner Brothers. Together, lady Gago went on alone. I think she went to the Madonna party. She went to the Vanity Fair party. And she was more with Mark Ronson and her fellow Oscar winners. Toward the town with broadly. I'm just curious. What's going to happen? Now. It does this friendship continue right? Four photos of them getting brunches and like eating eggs, Benedict diner, or like will they ever will? They do another movie together. Like, I feel like that could be something that would be kind of like five fanning these flames interesting that I know I do wonder to what's going to go. I feel like there's going to be more to this story. Just feels that way. Right. But one little weird aspect kind of has kept us going or not. I don't know people. Maybe just looking for reasons to keep talking about it. But Jennifer Zito who was married to Bradley Cooper, very briefly eleven years ago. She commented of all people David Spade gets brought into this David Spade. Put up an Instagram the two of them with Bradley in Gaga with the caption any chance. These two aren't effing and Jennifer Zito acts a wife of Bradley commented. Ha, that's it. Just the two letters H A. I saw so many. Like aggregated posts writing this up that were like, Jennifer Esposito slams Bradley, Gaga, early click here to find out what she said literally, that's all she wrote haw. But then she went this morning when I woke up there all these things about a cheek addressed in this kind of long address, and which was like understating 'cause she really did she I guess because of all this kind of attention to the fact that she wrote that as a comment she decided to address that it and she said, you know, Sony, people have commenting about something that I said, which was hot that was it. And in the way that it is bread. Can you believe this is the culture we live in that she had to address making this comment on Instagram? It was towards David Spade. Very outward statement about something about an axe. And I literally laughed at him because it was so bold. And what he was saying. I thought it was funny and allowed to think something is funny. I'm gonna steal that for myself. I like that. I thought it was funny. And I'm allowed to think something is funny. She went on to argue. The comment was far less important than many things going on our country in our world. Okay. That argument, and then she claims people claims, she only did it to feel relevant and she did not take kindly to that. So she said, I didn't watch the Oscars. I don't know what went on. I don't care. What went on? I come into something that I thought was funny and to find the people making judgment calls about MIR them or the people at the con it was about is really psychotic. If you think I'm just going to sit quietly and not answer you because it will just go away. This is why people don't speak up on so many situations because I had experience with someone. I'm never allowed to say anything. I literally this really goes on. I literally said ha it's two letters and for that you make character, judgments, I feel bad for those people who are involved on the other side of the ha wasn't them. And I feel bad for you. If you took your time to comment on such insanity today, the world is crazy place. Please go do something positive piece. Every podcast on the world isn't a crazy place. Please go do something positive piece. Go China for. I mean, I didn't even realize until reading it. Now, how wild this was? I know I know that is I guess. Like, I mean what what happened. Do you think? I don't even know. I don't know. But I like that she went on this rant to defend yourself and. Yeah. I have to think though. You know, this is how the tabloid industry works. It's it's that's the case. But I do love all this over just ha ha has never been so scrutinized. The Gago Cooper Bradley Hoover perfomance with end with as wild Jennifer Esposito rant. How many days later? Could have predicted this. We can't get into this. Because it's just going to like, I'm gonna lose it. But then also Gaga ex-fiancee Taylor Kinney. Also liked something on Instagram that all the places picked up like, I don't know. There's just like this release spawned the lot also stars porn is going to be released in theaters with twelve minutes of extra footage. So I feel like they're really. That extra footage as the Hollywood reporter said it was like it's like different song performances. But I don't know I've ever really heard of that happening of you, twelve minutes extra footage added in. I don't know that there's any movie I would wanna sit through again to see twelve when I want someone to just send me like a zip drive of those twelve minutes to sit through the wrath of the first half of paying for it. Right. Good point. Anyway, I'm curious to see how all this plays out. Julie when you saw Gaga at the party. What how did she appear seem to you God lake Meghan Markle? Wow. I cannot wait to hear how this is going to end Gaga like Meghan Markle. Always seems as though she's acting or performing with a camera on her at all times. I guess to be fair those sort of public figures have to do because a camera could be on them at all Tavares, but she came in probably three hours after she won that Oscar, and she was still just as shocked as though she had just wanted it, which I've never wanted Oscar. So who am I to say like, maybe I would be have that expression of shock on my face for a solid month? But she came in her dad was actually he owns a restaurants art bird that serves fried chicken and New York and the mandate. Pharos ker party had him. They're serving fried chicken. So I served fried chicken at the party. I don't know working behind the kitchen or what I don't know if he was there. But the the setup there was little stand with his passing it out someone brought over the chicken. I didn't try it sadly through I not good enough. I they could Meghan Markle's pancakes could've been there. And you'd have thrown on the ground. But lady Garba she was hanging out with Mark Ronson for a little bit. She had this really emotional connection with Jamie king like they just stood and other for like a full five minutes, but it felt like ours because they were circled by just rabid on lookers all of whom had their cell phones up just shamelessly taking photos in videoing them. And it was like she was in some sort of movie seeing the way she was just responding to Jamie king as though Jamie king was God herself king probably never had that many one point. Actually relates to my next question. Would you say of anyone you saw the Oscar party was Gaga the most sort of like India manned to get a glimpse of or was there. Anyone else who rivaled her? Now. I think it was Gaga. I personally was just looking for Francis. Mcdormand? She was there. Right. She was there. She was amazing. She was wearing a red dress. And I she had birkenstock made her like a custom design birkenstocks. So she could wear it with this Valentino gown, and she was like showing anyone who would take the moment to look. She would offer birkenstock. Yes. And show them in Glenn Close was another fun one. But I think lady Gaga definitely had more. I ball's on her Julie wrote a fantastic sort of party report. If you want to like scoop of what goes on at the Vanity Fair Oscar party, but Glenn Close as dancing like a key. Highlight. Right. I feel that was like there was a Dan circle around her, right? Yes. She came and she had changed dresses. She sat down the booth with Gayle king. I wanted to bum rush. Gayle king and ask her to Mark. Right. I felt like I couldn't because she was sitting next to Glenn Glenn had some fried chicken. She tried lady Gaga goes dad's fried chicken, some French fries, and then she got up on the dance floor. Also, she hugged Maya route off and Amy Poehler and Tina Fey like she knew them from some sort of past life, which was interesting and then that song bad girl, bad girl. Talking about whatever that was like Glenn song. She got up and got down. I didn't include this in the party report because she had already been through enough that night, but she wiped out on the dance floor, and but this they're like a circle of people around. No, I think everybody was so shocked and she tried to play it off like instead of trying to get up really quickly. She just like collapsed on the ground fully and did like a snowman. Has anyone ever had a like that? I know. And then she got back up she danced a little bit more. But then she laughs. I mean, but she just the grace in class to go to these after parties after an upset like that. I thought was very big of her. I love Glenn Close a lot of Meghan related people in Olympic Priyanka Chopra was also there with Jonas brother GS, but she didn't go to the shore. She made time shower shower. Yes. Were there any other major highlights for you personally from the Oscar party? Jeff Bezos was there which was a little bit bizarre. He was like eating in and out burger in standing a few feet away from Patrick white sell the agents who was married to his girlfriend, which was a little bit of dollars. Just like around each other. No, they were just kinda knows ably around each other. There was you know, Maya Rudolph Amy Poehler Tina Fey. They were definitely like cool trio like Natalie Portman, Jon Hamm, they were all hanging out with them. But I don't know that tracksuit she wore and indeed is track. Tracksuit? I don't know. I missed I missed Josh. I was I had my track gonna wear KENDALL. Jenner ended up wearing. Oh my gosh. That dress of exposed hit bone. I told KENDALL. I wouldn't go in the same outfit. All right. That does it for the six episode of in the limelight. Thank you so much listening. Please rate review on apple podcasts any questions you have about Kate's, swimming, outfit, Meghan, and Harry's tour anything with the Oscar party your theories on Gog on Bradley curious everyone else thinks about that. We'd love to hear it. Yes. You can also reach out and leave us a voicemail at three or four seven seven nine zero zero nine six six you can also feel free to reach out to us on Twitter at in the limelight and follow us individually. I'm at Julie w Miller j do Bom Instagram and the limelight pod episode was edited and produced by Brett few. Thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you next week until then no. Angie?

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"You're listening to the news at this time. When Africa Business Radio Renault -Sconsin fifteen thousand jobs walls wide as thoughts of it sued billion? You will cost cotton plan after seeing sales plunged because of the virus pandemic excecutive Klutz healed DEL bus. When ounce concert production to focus on more profitable models said the plan is essential Renault strategic partner sign on thirsty unfilled huge job cuts the company slashing caused by Cortsen the number of subcontractors in areas such as engineering reducing the number of competency to use this freezing expansion plans in Romania and Morocco and shrinking gift box manufacturing worldwide renaults which claims more than four percents of the global call markets says the plants would affect about ten percents of its one hundred seventy nine thousand. Strong global workforce and cost up to one point two billion euros and that was the news this time on Africa Business Radio. You can't continue to listen life online at. Www does Africa business radio DOT COM or a mobile APP. Thank you for listening.

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57:52 min | 1 year ago

Bucket List Travel: Morocco and London Part 1: Erin Phillips:121

"You're listening to the mom inspired show episode one hundred twenty one with Aaron Phillips welcome to the mamas Berit show. I'm your host Aamer Sandberg and this shows created inspire. Encourage Anna little extra fun tier day. Hey, you guys I'm super excited to have Aaron on the show today. We are actually going to make this interview a two part interview because we had so much fun talking all about the places that Aaron has gone to. So this episode we are going to focus in on Morocco and London and the next episode. We're going to talk about Paris and Belgium. And so I really just hope that this episode inspires you to start thinking about where you wanna go with traveling. And if this still feels daunting to you after listening to this this is where you guys can reach out to me as a travel agent. You can find me at mom inspired show dot com forward slash travel agent and set up a free consultation or message me on Instagram at Amherst hamburger Facebook at Facebook, amber Sandberg, and just let me know that you're thinking about travel, and I can come alongside you and help you with these overseas trips and stuff that might seem a little bit out of your comfort. On. But anyway, I hope that you guys feel really inspired and excited. Just listening to another mom's point of view about traveling internationally. Let's go to the show Aaron thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be chatting today. Yeah. I'm super excited. You know, you're across the pond. And you know, it's one of those fun things that you have to really kind of figure out the time change and all that stuff. So I definitely appreciate you carving out the time since it's not during the traditional working hours of a day. So I do appreciate that. No worries at all. I'm so used to just advocating all the time changes from the US to hear. No, no worries. Okay. Awesome. So before we jump into everything I do like to start off every show on ice breaker on travel since I'm a travel agent. I just can't resist asking the questions like where people love going, and what their favorite vacation is. And this can be with or without kids. Great. Okay. So we've done a lot of travel. Since we've been living abroad. But I have to say that our trip to Morocco was pretty spectacular. My husband, and I wanted to take a trip where you know, we probably wouldn't do it from the US like garner up, the courage or get all the pieces together to do it. And so while we're here in London the flights are so cheap. And it's a really easy and fast flight to Morocco. So we had family here for weeks upon weeks, and we took one of those leaks and hopped over to Morocco roads and camels had lots of good food met some really neat people. And we even saw the Saharan desert, which was awesome. Yes. So how long is the flight from London to there? It was a little over three hours. I wanna say, okay. Yeah. So that is a a quick trip when you're there. So you might as well take advantage of it. How did you narrow down on going to Morocco compared to somewhere else since you were in London? Yeah. That's a great question. That is the hardest part or one of the hardest parts I feel like is narrowing down travel and there so. Many places that are just so accessible, and I don't know why maybe it was a post on Instagram or something, but I just had Morocco rain lately. So that was top of my list, and I kind of conned my husband and into now we're ever it. Was there ever a time that you were kind of concerned about safety or anything like that or maybe going into it? But then once you got there, you're you're totally at ease. What what was your thoughts around all that? Yeah. For sure I was pretty freaked out about that. Right before we left. Okay. I was like oh my gosh. Should we even do this? Yeah. My just read, you know, all these reports even my hairdresser here in London was like, Ooh, I had a really bad experience Morocco. And I was like, oh great. We talked to our friends who actually she and her husband went two weeks prior to when we went. So I called her. She was so gracious, we hopped on the phone for over an hour. And she really reassured me about everything, and we made sure to pretty much the whole time except one or two days we had a. A guide with us. So some smartphones pretty safe from that perspective. Yes. And and you know, what to an end this is an an you're able to do this without or did you use a travel agent. I don't know did use traveling. We did not. Yes. That's one of the things that we're travel agents come into play. And I don't I don't think people realize that. So 'cause I was orchestrating a Spain Lisbon trip and really kind of setting up private tours specially because the the clients there women, so they weren't gonna do. It was really important to kind of think about private guides private transfers transportation all that kind of stuff. So I think those things come into play. And also it gives you some ease to have someone local there, you know, around, and, you know, showing you places. So do you feel like with Morocco, though, that you definitely would suggest getting a guy don't go without one hundred percent Galkayo? Absolutely. Especially the more and more reports recently that are coming out of Meralco. You know, it was great to have someone like you were saying that was just knowledgeable, and it was local. It was a huge difference between you know, one day. We went into the six all of those different winding shops where you've heard we'll get lost. Yes. I'm we went by ourselves the first day and just kind of wandered around our Riyadh where we were staying. And then we went again the second day with a guide, and it was night and day when you are with someone from Morocco, they run as the locals recognize that you're with someone and they don't come up to your approach, you, you know, it just feels a lot more safe. And. Yeah. And you kind of know where you're going. Now, would you recommend the hotel that you stayed in? I would always stayed and such a cool place. We actually stayed in two different hotels in Marrakesh. And then in between we took a nine hour road trip to the Sahara desert camp out and the desert, so we stayed in three different places, a total three different places, we stayed in tervell. It's a Riyadh in the middle of the sucks, which was wonderful for just getting there getting acquainted with Morocco in really getting the feel of everything we didn't have to take Uber's or you know, any of the bikes or anything like that. We were right in the middle of everything which is great than we took our nine hour road trip. We did that start to finish with a company called desert luxury camp they were phenomenal. I still actually talk to our guide who you know, we spent all this time with in the car. He drove us America to the desert, and he was wonderful. We talk all the time on Instagram has really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then we camped out. We we spent a night in a hotel because the kind of stopped half. F- way through and then continued the rest of the way one night and the desert which was more than enough. That was one of the craziest experiences of my life. Crazy about it. Like, what did you feel when you when you say that? Oh my goodness. Okay. So this is going to sound silly. And it sounds very common sense. But the desert is desolate and dry and barren and it is true like wilderness. I mean, I just I don't know how else sticks planet it. And of course, that's what you would think when you think of it. But it's just a degree. I've never experienced kind of isolation. And all of that like, I did in the desert, and you know, we were even staying in one of those like fancy pretty tents that having bring size bed yuppie Lamping. Yeah. Exactly. But it was just gosh, the winds and the just the heat, but also the coolness and it was bizarre. It was really really different. Yeah. I mean, it sounds. I wouldn't really about spiders in the desert. So I know. Yeah. Wow. That is interesting and that you had a king size bed and a toilet. Right. I mean, that's really mind boggling. It was crazy. But you know, I'd do it all over again. It was cool experience. That's awesome. Now, where did you what were the places that were what was the hotel or what camping? What would you say? What was the name of that place? Yes. So it's all desert luxury camp. Yeah. They pick you up. They drive you there on the drive. It's not like you're sitting in the car for nine hours straight on the drive there, you're stopping and we stopped it like a rose factory where they press rose pedals Ming rose oil the women who do that we met this woman you make argon oil. You know, the Moroccan. Bluebottle do that. We saw them grinding the argon, you know, they were pouring it and mixing it. And we talked to those women. We even our favourite part was we stopped and took a hike through the woods and get a guide for that as well. And he spoke excellent English. And I mean, we would just walk through all these fields, and we ate figs off the treaty. He cracked spring there on the stones. We met the children in the villages. We saw really kind of desolate village where the buildings are literally made out of mud and straw. We spoke to women in that village who are making the beautiful Moroccan rugs. That you see everywhere a lot of them are divorce as which is kind of taboo. So they all live together and kind of make these rags and sell them to make a living because they're kind of shunned a little bit by their culture. So it was a really really neat experience. So you're kind of stopping along the way you finally get to a bigger Yudo, quote, unquote city, and you stay the night in a hotel day era. And then you wake up and make the rest of the way to the desert in the near really only at the desert camp for bow out. I would say ten hours maybe inbetween like you get two meals like dinner and breakfast. And you know, there's a show at night where you know, feud the the guys at the camper playing the drums and singing the music, and it's a bonfire you wake up at like five AM to go on ride a camel and watch the sunset over the desert. It was it was I mean the trip of a lifetime. It was really really cool. That is really cool. I mean, it just it sounds so out of this world, you know? And so I think that's really. Cool. You know, and especially if somebody wants to do something completely different. What hotel? Did you stay at when you were more in the city? Yes, when Laron Marrakesh we stayed at terrible. It's T R A B E L, and it's a Riyadh which you know, a Riyadh is their their traditional style kind of home over there. So it's a square that's open in the middle in the middle is garden. So since this one was more of a hotel setup there were two of those squares pool. The other one had an orange grove. There's horn ges. There are oh gosh. They're so good in the hand squeeze all the orange juice for you. I mean, we lived like kings, and queens, and I think we paid like I want to say hundred twenty night. It was like a five star resort was phenomenal. We did stay and Selman SE L M A N on our very less last nightmare. Cash. It's by the airport may just come back from the desert, and Oprah had just stayed there. Like the week before an out and John had just performed like the month before at this resort. Yeah. So that one was really cool. You know, we got great rates because we went and in the off season, which we went in July. It's win. It's the absolute hottest ever is. And people think you're crazy for going to the desert in July and. And it was it was very hot. Okay. We're in sleep in the desert. No, okay. Yeah. Yeah. We tried. We actually they said a bed up for us outside and a little bit. Yeah. But the sand was blowing too much. So we went inside. Yeah. And it was hot inside. So goodness. Oh my gosh. So when would win would you say to go is is the most ideal even though it might be the most expensive. Yeah. So you know, kind of their peak time September. So we question, you know, we took a nine hour road trip, but they're actually opening up in airport closer to the desert where we went. So, you know, I was like, oh, well, it would be so cool to come back and see you guys again. And we just fall in love with all the people that we met through the desert luxury camp. It's all family owned. So it's a wife and her husband and her brother was the one who drove us everywhere. And was are like main guy, you know, her kid was there at the camp. The cook is like her best friend. I mean, it was just really cool. Yeah. So I asked I said when should we come back and see you and they said, oh, wait for the airport to be finished being built? So you don't have to make the nightmare road trip. Yes. And come in September. That's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. No. And that's a good. You'll have to send that information to me. So he can keep that on hand because I would love to support that family business and stuff like that with the travel agency and stuff like that. Because it's always great to hear when people take care of you, and especially family owned and stuff like that. Because he is such a big difference the customer service when you go on a vacation or not. And so you know, that can make or break things, you know, if if you have a good trip or have a bad trip. So that's always to hear great companies. Okay. Well, I was going to ask you to as we move on though. How was it to ride a camel? You know, I had a blast. And my husband might kill me for saying this. I don't know if he's gonna listen to this. But he was terrified. Well, they're they're really big really tall. And when they stand up they stand up either they usually see up by their back legs. I yet denounce like you're like you're going to be thrown forward. Right. Yeah. You're staring straight into the sand. I mean, it's it's pretty eerie anything. Most of your husband, even though I don't know him. Oh, I don't know him. Horses comfortable says, but it was still pretty intimidating. But overall, it's great there's they're such sweet and slow and gentle creatures. So it was really neat. You don't like some people will say like if you go to India don't ride the elephants because it's not it's cruel now as the camels more similar situation as horses. You know, where you ride says like how how do you feel about that? While you were there and stuff like that. I was really concerned with that. Because I've heard that too. I mean, I've had a lot of friends who've gone to Thailand and talked about the elephants. And so we talked to desert luxury camp about that. And of course, you know, we knew to a degree that they're gonna say whatever, you know, they're going to say to make you feel better. But we actually on the way end because he knew this was a concern we stopped by where the man lives who raises these camels, and I'm not kidding. When I say. It's literally he lived a a tent that was made out of cloth and beams, and it was barely big enough for him to lay down and then right outside was like a little mix shift kind of barn. And the and the camels were there. They weren't tied up. They weren't tethered to anything. They have if his water Ross. Yeah, they just walked around. And of course, didn't wanna leave because it's just doesn't hurt surrounding you everywhere. And he was even it was funny. Our guide even was like camel milk from this guy. So we're going to pick some up on the way out. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All so we felt really good about it as a friend that I had that I talked to who went two weeks prior to us. They did not take this tour out to the Sahara desert. They just rent like forty five minutes outside of Marrakesh did like a like a hop on a camel ride around ticket picture hop off. And she did say she didn't feel great about that. It was organized by their hotel and. It just didn't it didn't feel great. Yes. That is important to like know that. And again, that's using it helps to have people guiding you like kind of what you experienced to. They know the people and stuff like that. Because it does it does stand out to me that like oh did these camels get treated not that? Well, so so I'm glad that you said that that you had a good experience. And that maybe she didn't feel so good about it. So it's not all the same. So right. Yeah. I think that's that's good. And that's good for me to know to for. If I ever booked somebody going to somewhere that does camels to kind of get into it a little bit more to get a better feel for it. So island this overall, you know, I was like, oh, what is the camel's name? And the guy looked at me like I was crazy like over there. They don't think of animals like they don't have name them. They you know, what I mean? There are two they helped us get him across right there. So it's not kind of a personal experience. They think of them a little bit different. And a lot of times they will like there may be like a, tether that that's on the camel's nose or something like that. But we talk to them more about that. And I saw a little bit better. Yeah. And also about Morocco the goats up in the trees are really popular thing. Like, wait. By isn't a tree. Yes. There's his goat trees like they're even calendars made and you'll find like when you look at Morocco on Instagram or Pinterest in you're you're trying to figure out what to do these trees are like, oh, let's go to a goat tree. We were talking to our guide. And he was like those are fake. He was like it's don't ever go see one they aren't treated. Well, they're up in their, you know, their lured up their there. Sometimes tethered to the tree line there hung that. You can't see there left for days enough fake. He was like don't go. See it. It's a tourist trap. So while we're on that one. Yeah. No. Thank you for saying that so it's called. So they're called goat. Trees like in the go or in the trees, but they are being lured or tied up in there. As what you're saying. Yep. They don't naturally go up there. Yeah. In the wild. They may like hop on a branch or something. See these pictures of treat like they're pretty low to the ground in wide trees covered in goats. Oh, that's not normal appear Lau. So I covered that. Yes. Yeah. You don't really it's like if you know about it. You don't want to be supporting things that are not being kind to the animals in something like that. And really be pushing that and so I think too that's the thing and we're not going to go into this. But like when traveling specially internationally, how do you travel responsible like that's becoming rain aware to me that these are those kind of things that people are talked yet out to, you know, it's not just the animals, but I'm just saying in general that it is good. And that is probably things that you have learned and we'll jump into this more too. But you know, with the benefits of traveling with your children, and and they seen that too. So yeah, this is exciting. I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to have to split this episode because now I'm thinking. Okay. It might be just London. It might be Morocco London and then your side trip. So. Great forever. And it's a it's a glimpse for people to kind of hear somebody do it and their experience and stuff like that. And that's the main thing because I really do want to encourage moms, especially mobs. No, no, you didn't take your your child on this trip. But still I really encourage spouses to take trips together, I still feel like that's really important to have that time together. And so yes, yeah. So it's always great to hear other moms talking about trips specially international trips things that seem a little bit scary or outside the norm and to help, you know, make it seem like oh, wow. Okay. Maybe this is actually doable. Because you know, this girl here she's from the states, but is going to Morocco. So okay. Yes. So and I'll say to go, hey, blog posts coming out on Morocco. So we information that'll just be living out there on the internet. So. Those two. Yeah. Yes. So I realize that we haven't introduced yet because we talk so much about Morocco. We're just been fine. How about you share with us your first and last name where you're from? But where are you living now, and how many kids you have? And then we'll jump into how you got to where you are today with living where you are. Sure. So I'm Aaron Phillips. I am the author behind attention to darling blog, I live in London. Currently we're here for a year with our family, which is me and my husband and our three year old daughter Sullivan, and I'm originally from South Carolina. Our home is in Charleston. So gots me. Yeah. I love it. So do you guys know how long you're going to actually be in London is at a certain time, or do you just not know? So we're here till June June first. So I'm curious. Are you a little sad to go back? Or are you really excited to go back? Oh, it's such a mix of feeling that we've been here about ten months at this point. We kept our house and Charleston. And we kept our two dogs. They're so we had two golden retrievers eight and one is ten so they're older larger dogs. Yep. You know, when we first said, yes. To moving here. A hundred percent we are bringing our dogs. And then Mayan amazing mother-in-law said, you know, I've been thinking about moving to Charleston, and this would be a wonderful opportunity to test out if I wanna live there. So she actually is renting our house from us paying us rent. And she also is keeping our dogs. That is great. And that was just another sign. You know, this is something they do. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. I thought it would be fun to have you on the show because not only are you traveling mom, but an currently live. In london. But funny enough when I was two to four I lived in England with my parents for my dad. Yeah. And and so it's just it's kind of a fun thing to think about and it's interesting. So my parents, we also lived in Australia when I was. Man. How old was I when I was ten, and so I get the grades mess up. Because what happens they're the opposite season Steph? Yes, I had to go into fourth grade another a half a year or fourth grade again. And then I have your fifth. Come back jump into six. I mean, that's really crazy. Wow. Yes. Crazy. Yes. That is. And so, but I think my grandma always said to me when I was young, and she's like, you know, not everyone is an international traveler at the age of two, and it's funny because my girls believe it or not we haven't even gone an airplane, and therefore and seven we drive everywhere. A lot due to cost and stuff like that. So it's funny. Oh my gosh. I haven't like given them the experience that I have. But at the same time. My parents owes further job. So you know, that feels a lot different than just, you know, being able to travel the world on your own with your your money and stuff. That we all know that travel gets expensive. But I do think that that really put the travel bug into me probably because I was such a young age. I mean, even if you're under ten I mean, it's still young to start traveling. So yeah, definitely I have my girls passports in a Mike we need to use these before they expire, you know, because they expire in five years when their kids, and so they need to use these. And so anyways, I love that you're over there with your daughter. And so I can kind of relate to your daughter as a grownup, and I think that kind of like sparked and my parents did things too. Like, we went to so my dad's Indonesian, and we went to Bali, and when I was young, of course, I don't remember it. But so I've been to a lot of places I've been to Switzerland because they were in England. And and there was like this crazy snowstorm happening. And my mom's like, it was so scared to be driving and all these funds stories that I get to here, and I hope to go back as an adult. But I just think that's a fun thing when it's kind of interwoven and cheer life, especially as a young child. And so that's why I thought this would be fun to just talk to you, obviously, not everybody's going to be able to just go move somewhere. So, you know, even traveling. I think it would be, you know, just great to hear your experience. And what your thoughts have been? I'm sure they're different than what they were before you left. And so let's just jump into on it. So what would you say will wear exactly in London? Do you live? Let's okay short. We are in Kensington. So we're specifically in west Kensington. So we're not we're technically in London City, proper, but we are in the borough of Kensington, and Chelsea. Okay. Cool. How it said? Yes. Yeah. So what would you say has been the greatest thing about living in London? And what has been the hardest part? Besides, you know, missing your family and friends. Yeah. Absolutely said the best part, of course, is you know, were here in a international hub. We're in really easy to hop on a plane and travel. So that's that's a clear ringer for the best part London. Specifically, though, you know, kind of back to what you were saying about traveling with young children and growing up somewhere different. I think just the experience overall of getting out of our bubble. You know, as in January twenty eighteen we had no idea we were even going to embark on this journey just a few months later. So this was kind of something we were thrown into and just kind of said, yes. And and so it's been really cool to come over in London and see the culture. I mean, I go to my daughter's school and. Sitting at her table. There is no child that looks like the other. They're all very different all different skin, tones, all different backgrounds. All different religions, all different accents, all different celebrations that you know, like my husband, and I went and talked about thanksgiving for the kids. So they would know what that is. And they do that with different cultures. And that's just so neat for me to have my daughter kind of understand the diversity that's in the world and just how much bigger it as than the little bubble that you might be an yes that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Now, what would you say has been the hardest? He asked. So I mean, you hit the nail on the head the friends and family party worse being more away from them and not having our dogs has been really really really hard. But navigating kind of that time difference were five hours ahead of east coast time. So, you know, when it's it's noon, they're five o'clock here and so on and so forth. So it's just it that part is really hard. Just that distance. And you know, social media makes it really fun tonight of post and stay in touch. But at the same time, a lot of your friends and family can think that they're staying involved in your life, just by watching Instagram stories or a reading a blog or something, and you just really miss that personal connection. So that first sir has a know that I went with the answer you told me to save besides. But I figured that the biggest. Yeah. Guan yet. I just have to say that one. Is there anything that? You miss though, there that you don't have that. You're used to getting in the states that you're kind of like, oh, man. Or like, yeah. What what are some things? Yeah. I missed the convenience of the US. So, you know, you you wanna go somewhere you just step out your door. You hop in the car, and you can be at target, which literally has everything you need so convenience is so nice. You know, here we don't have a car, which is another reason why we chose to live kind of deeper London than being farther out. Right. So, you know, we'd take a bus or the tube. Or, you know, the overground there's a million different ways to get around. And and so we really have to do that to get our groceries. We have to haul a little trolley as they call it and up to the grocery store loaded up in them be able to carry it up or six flights of stairs. So just you know, things like that that we miss about the US, and there's also little things like peanut butter. We do they do. They don't sell peanut butter there. They sell something called peanut butter here. But you know, it's not really charts. It's funny. You know, what's funny is when my mom, and I were little too. So I was same age as your daughter, you know, and she didn't have a car. But I think my dad might have had a car, and and so we had a walk and pull the little trout and stuff like that. So I totally know what you mean by that is sure gives a different perspective, and it rains a lot. So I mean, you're you're Elaine this thing in the rain with maybe a toddler, you know, and so. Because it's easy to romanticize places like when you're living. But also, you miss things that you may not even realize is an American thing. And how great that is. So that's why I thought it would be fun for you to share that too. Because. Yes, easy. Are you able to watch TV like American TV at all or Netflix? No, we have enough flex flex. It's different though. I mean, we don't get everything you guys you guys. Don't get everything. We do have a lot of Kulik BBC shows on are not fucks over here, which is cool. But no, we don't get American TV, which the big I thought I was going to really miss my Bravo. Yeah. And there are there are ways there's like an app if you have an Amazon fire stick where you can get Bravo shows. You can't watch it real time. But you can kind of get the replays of shows and things like that. And we have found like ways to VPN and get football games. And so there are working around. But you know, I it's so true. I mean, washers and dryers. We don't really have those here. I mean, if you live in a home, home, sure you live outside of London you have a separate washer and dryer. But here in the city, I mean, even in really nice places, you know, your wash. Dryer is this teeny tiny combined unit and the dry cycle. Just means that spins really fast to get the excess water out on. Unsown dry. It's okay. Because it's warm, but it takes me two days to do just a teeny little modem Andrei. So you have to actually do laundry every single day. They you don't really have air conditioning here or air con as they say. Oh, oh, interesting. Yes. That's a big thing. I we had friends that came over the summer, June July, and they had an eight month old and the hotel they got had no air con the Airbnb that they look down trying to move to had no air con, and they finally found one hotel that that had it. I think they had to sleep in like twin beds or give something finally found somewhere with air conditioning. So the baby could sleep through the night. Definitely something to think about that. Is something socially for us to that. I'm pretty sure I sent a client to the rosewood. And so that is a little bit higher end. However is not that much different than the Marriott. Believe it or not at the Marriott was actually pricing higher than a rosewood. And I'm pretty sure there was air conditioned. So that is it that point to to know that that that doesn't come in every hotel. Yeah. Daily airbnb. So like if that's a big deal to you. Then you just your way from that. So with families thinking about wanted. What would you say are some of your top picks that if they come in? What do they need to hit up that you would say you cannot miss this? This is so fun to do with kids. Right. So there's of course, the big sites. You can go see, you know, big Ben's under construction until I think it's twenty twenty or no twenty twenty one. Maybe while there's another two or three years. I wanna say the Big Ben is going to be under construction and by. Under construction. I mean, complete scaffolding you can you can hide. Oh, they're just basing it. Yeah. So they're doing like a billion dollar respiration of it was actually detaching from houses of parliament and kind of leaning. I think that's scary. So they're yeah. They're completely redoing it. But I will say we so we had fourteen weeks straight of people visiting us and most of them staying in our flat with us. That's the thing. When you say are cool. You know, people are going to be trailing right behind you. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, you know, we were laughing because we're like we have seen more of our family within these teams. Don't usually see in five years. Yeah. I mean, it's just kind of funny. So we really developed a walking route that you know, if it's the weather is nice works. Well for kids because you can stop it park some be outside. An also, you know, you can bring a little pram where you know, stroller. The US. Yeah. But you go from the Westminster stop puke come out there from the tube and your autumn medically at houses of parliament. You're at Big Ben and across the water. You have the London. I'm and you definitely want to book the London I in advance. And if you can you want to do the fast pass tickets. So you're not standing out there all day. It's not a crazy amount of extra money. So we always recommend that. And then, you know, once you walk over the bridge to the London, I can come back over the bridge, the other way and get the full view of houses of parliament. And then from there you can continue to Westminster Abbey, which is actually a really cool tour not for kids. But. Yeah. I've taken my daughter a couple of times, and we made do, but you know, they're not really cool people buried there. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool place to go and see and then from Westminster Abbey you can make your way to Trafalgar Square, which has big fountains, lots of pubs and places to eat. And then you can walk down the Mao it's spelled mall and L L. But it's the mallets. It's that long road where you see the Queen and everyone kind of going down to head to Buckingham Palace. Yeah. Okay. So how do you pronounce it again the Mao and it's spelled mall mile? Okay. Yeah. So I was going to ask you totally made me think of DisneyWorld when you're talking about fast pass because you know, I- Disney. So it's trying to do. Everybody's fast. Unlike that's really funny that this is a there's a fast pass to London is. So where do people even go to book the fast pass or book? You know, an I wouldn't say a booking a reservation. I guess. Yes. Right. Yeah. We've only have are booked online. There is a just a building that it looks very regal. But it actually houses like a Shrek experience an aquarium and a dungeon kind of thing. So we've done we've done the Shrek experience. And we've done the aquarium they're both right there at the London is I'm glad you said that because those are both two really good things with kids, especially if it's raining. It's not London specifically, you know. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when you're doing kind of you know, you got in other things to keep them entertained Darsur. And so right beside there. There's also just like a London. I section of the building where I'm sure you can buy the tickets, and they're so young. But we've booked them online. You have booked online. And what do you know what it's called when you are looking up online deny. Yep. And it's it's the Coca Cola Lunden. I it's like sponsored by. Type it in something like that. And try to look for fast buses. Okay. That's gonna and they do I think they also own the aquarium and the strikes adventure and a few other things. So you hand by like discounted tickets. If you like three different things, we have not done those group passes, but they do exist. If you think that that's something they want to do. So if people I'm not familiar with all the trains and transportation there. So is there a train that you can take or the subway to get to that location? And if so what stop or area is that that you would get out at a. Yeah. So you can I share take the tube? Which is our subway underground, or whatever you wanna call it. It's it's confusing. I'm not gonna lie like if not, you know, Germany or anywhere else in that. So like a grid or straight lines? It makes sense. It's kind of squiggly all over the. Place and the tube is named all these fancy names. You know, there's a line. There's the, you know, all these different stops in names for everything. It's not just like blue red number one number two, right? And so on and so forth that said there is this amazing app that I literally could not live without. And I don't know how I would survive London without it. It's called city Mathur. Oh, one word. Okay. I T Y M A P P E R city map, or and you plug in the location. You would like to go to an of course, like has your current location, and it pops up a screen, and it says, okay? This is how all the routes you could possibly take. So it gives you Uber gives you taxi it gives you all the different tube lines. It gives you the bus lines. It gives you everything that you could possibly take and you can pick based on timing, and you can pick based on cost which one you wanna take you click it, and it literally gives you step by step directions on how to get places. You can even download an offline version of someone comes to the UK and doesn't want to have their data turned on you can have an offline version. Okay that still works. So it's you have to pay for that version. But I think it's a hundred percent worth that. And it even tracks like while you're underground it has hasn't it tracks the stop sear going on? So it is phenomenal. And it makes getting everywhere a no-brainer and makes it so easy and people are so nice around here. If you bring a stroller and have kids in your walking up and down stairs. I have never once been going upstairs holding a stroller and had someone not stop in say can you with that? Or it is slipping up. Yeah. Everyone's very accommodating, and you know, there's tons of kids on the tube. So everyone's used to kids being on there. And. Yeah, people hopping on and off and and all that good stuff. My my preferred route to take is the bus we travel by double decker bus. Alone round here. Yup. And it's just like the two you're just kind of by pass or we always recommend that people use Apple Pay on their phone if they hide bone. Okay. Putt. You're international credit card in there. And you just scan your Apple Pay to get on the bus and on the tube. Okay. Spinach, easy, international credit card. So do you what what brand of credit card? Do you have for your international? Can you get that through any brand or do is it specific brands that you can have international credit cards? So we love our Capital One venture card. So that is just an awesome card in general that we've love love love to have over here. But even local banks some of them may charge, no international fees, even on your debit card, or or whatever. So before you leave. I would just call your Bank or your credit card company or look online and just see if they charge international fees. So the reason why we love venture is there's absolutely no international fees. No matter. Where you go nights because some places are like just the EU or just, you know, and certain places, so there's absolutely no international fees, and you gain like double points, or whatever it is on travel related things. That's cool. So it's a really cool card to have. Yeah. Yeah. That's good to know. And so even if you're traveling for vacation not to live there is you would highly recommend getting up. The I didn't even dawn on me that you can't you probably would be head up with fees using regular credit card. It didn't even dawn on me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. So when so before we move onto the next thing with high end, the Shrek and all that what area is that. So go to the Westminster stop on the there's a few different lines. I think it's district circle Piccadilly. Yeah. I'll go to the Westminster style normally wherever you are in town. You can usually get to one of those lines. Get to the Westminster stop. So I'm curious why do you like the bus versus the tube? So I love the bus because you know, I have a three year old. And so going to the top is really cool for her because she gets to look out over everyone makes sense floor unexperienced, and it's almost a little like sightseeing tour without hang for it. You're paying the dollar fifty or whatever it is to get from a to b or pound fifty I should say. And then you kind of get to see everything, you know, with the tube. You're underground. But it's not always possible to take the bus everywhere because traffic is horrendous in London interview, actually, get if you drive in London you have to pay a ten pound a day tax. Just Chris and London. They're trying to cut down on on all the cars. So so, yeah, it's not possible to always take the best the tube is just so quick and convenient. So we take the tube more. But when I can taking the bus is my preferred route. So if you're getting out of the airport, would you mostly be taking a tube to a hotel versus a bus? So the tube is so easy from the airport. Oh, got you literally within the airport you walk down a ramp on your on the tube. Okay. This is easy. There's also an express train from the tube that I think goes to Paddington station. I've honestly never taken it. But there's an express to our area of town. It usually takes about forty five minutes from the airport from Heathrow to get into town. And we stay on the one line the whole time. So it's not like change with luggage. And all that moved over here with eight bags. We took an we took a taxi, right? Yeah. The most part, you know, you can easily help them. To thin the airport. Yeah. That's what my client that. She took the tube to the rosewood. Yep. So let's move into food. What are some of the top places that you I know that you told me about sketch and by the way, my client loved it. She said need to go hungry though. Because you get yes, all this food. So if that's still one of your top picks. I'll have you explain that experience. But what are what are some other options that you're just like you have to go to in y you love it. And I'm also looking for maybe cool coffee shops that people would just truly enjoy going to. Yeah. So fun fact the number one dish sold in London and the UK actually in general is chicken Tikka masala, not fishing chips. Like, you maybe with think Indian food is really really big and London. And if I'm being honest, I was like, Ooh, I don't like Indian food not for me. Thanks. I went to a restaurant though that completely. Changed my mind on Indian food. It's called dish Hsun? So d I s h o m to shoot them. There's multiple locations all over London. We have one here in Kensington. There's also uncovered garden, and I think there may be three other locations outside of that too. It is phenomenal. If someone comes to London and does not go to shoot them. I'm thoroughly disappointed in them. So good your favorite dish there. What's your favorite dish? Okay. Where do I even start? So the ruby chicken is so good. And they have these okra fries that are delicious thing. They're non they have a garlic non they have. It's all made to order. So it's not like you get your food all at once. It just comes out as it's prepared. Not. Yeah. You can order just a few things and split it you can order full meals. I also loved their breakfast. They have this bacon and non than his just today for that. Sounds good. They're very kid friendly. They actually give kids at just catches when they come in. They have little special drinks for kids on the kind of toned down. You know, the spice inflator their meals. They give little like popcorn type things as appetizers two kids that are all different colors. They're very kid friendly, very delicious. We've taken every single person who's come to visit us. To shoot them. And never once. Have we had someone not like it? So I mean, it's it's great. So highly recommend assume and yes, sketches very cool for after noon, t so yeah, explain that to people in how it works to so afternoon tea, at least for me is another must when you come to London. You can have after noon teat, anywhere. You can have it at the Ritz. You can have a, you know, at all hotels have after noon t-, unfortunately, the Orangerie which is part of Kensington Palace is under renovation, but they have like a makeshift t right now that's big on my list for when we come back in. It's it's done being under construction. But there's also places like sketch, which we've talked about which have specific tea parlor rooms, and you, you know, traditional teas usually served around one to three PM. They have it often noon, of course, but sketch the room where you have t- is. All pink. And before that sounds like nauseating to some people or turn off. It's a very muted pink the walls. The the chairs all of that the experiences, very very neat. So you usually interact with anywhere from three to seven different people during your time dining, they're all wearing different outfits. There's live music the afternoon tea is is kind of elevated, meaning it's not just your regular scones and fingers sandwiches. It's cones, but you know, served with the really cool clotted cream, which by the way, quoted cream sounds disgusting. But it's like a frosting, and it's very good. Slotted cream? Yes. Yes. That does sound great. But it, but it's still it's delicious. It's like a cross between cream cheese. It's like a cream cheese icing. Oh, yeah. Okay. It'll it'll look like butter, but try it. It's very good, and they serve you few courses of afternoon tea thing. So it's like you get an egg appetizer. And then you get your kind of three tiered shelf of food delivered. That's you know, a mix of finger sandwiches and pastries in the new end with scones. And you have you know, you can pick your t-, and you should have everyone at the table. Get a different t because they just keep refilling the T on try different. Teas you can also add champagne if you want champagne, but it's a really cool experience, but the bathrooms are actually the coolest part. Why are they so cool? They are pods. So you walk in the bathroom the pink lit stairs. Not the blue ones. And they are these they look like eggs. They're like these little bathroom pods. Wow. And there's like rainforest music playing inside. There's like a stained glass ceiling. It's a really it. Sounds very weird. And it is weird. But it's cool. It's it's an experience like none other and one that you can only really get in big cities like London and New York, and that kind of thing. So I highly recommend sketch. You for sure have to book in advance, you might even have to get on a wait list to go. But it's a really cool afternoon tea experience. Definitely not a traditional one. But a very cool one. Yeah. I like that. Okay. So I think I decided this. So what we're gonna do is. Because I wanna talk to you about trips I'm going to break this into two interview. So that because what happens is people are like I want to kind of keep the thirty four. Eighteen minutes so show. I'm we're gonna finish up on London. And then when we do your side trips I'm gonna make that part too. So just so, you know, and so that everybody else knows that way that everybody can kind of get them more invite size pieces. So as we finish up with our London, what is one more place that you're kind of like, you gotta go to so do people not drink a ton of coffee. There isn't more tea or are there? Great coffee shops that you would highly recommend. Yeah. You know, I hate. But I I hate this. But I'm not the person to answer that because I'm actually not a coffee drinker OJ tea drinker. I know I know, but so perfect place for you. You it is it is funny enough. The Brits really do T though. I mean, a to a fault we've been gone with some of our British friends out to, you know, their country home, and it's all tea, it's with the. Gotcha. Okay. You know, there's tons of coffee shops. If. Yeah. Just totally fine. Yeah. About one more place that you would say that you need to go to eat that. You're just like this is delicious and is probably great for kids. Yeah. I'm glad you asked that so borough market. It's it's a surprise for most people that visit us, you know, to say, hey, let's go to a food market. That's underneath some train tracks in the city. And they're like, oh, but I wanna see like, you know, these regal Royal sites. Like, none are now. Trust us. Yeah. And we usually leave and everyone is like that was one of the coolest experiences it's humongous. There's like two big sections of vendors set up just selling tons of food the best fish and chips and London or actually served at borough market. You know, they've won tons of awards. I think it's just called a fish house. You'll see it. You can't miss it. It's in between the two sections. We love there is a stall that serves pie. That's very good. They also have a yellow curry chicken that's delicious, and then you can just walk through and and sample things and there's some yummy beef fat. Fries. If you like that you got rise. I don't eat out with it is. Food. That's delicious. I mean, it's just. Number one. Yeah. So we're is that location that people would would they take the tube to get there or how do you get there? You can I share take the tube there? You can really take the tube. I mean, anywhere with inland, and of course, but then also you can take the tube even farther out. There's a really cool neighborhood called Richmond. That's like a forty five minute train ride out. And there's a place called Peter sham nurseries. That's a really cool place to visit. If you wanna get more of like a a local slower pace going to Richmond and going to Peterson nurseries is really really cool highly recommend that as well. Okay. That's cool. That sounds really fun. And I I'm glad that you mentioned that because I think those things especially with kids to his sounds more, obviously informal and unit. There's just so many different foods that you can grab for everybody, absolutely fine. So my last question with London. And then we will jump into your side trips, which will be part two. So when would you say is the best time to come to London, especially you know, like you're saying if there's not a lot of hair conditioning air condition. And they also how long would you say that you would recommend to be in London that you don't feel super rushed shore? So as far as time of year, the spring is absolutely phenomenal in London. So it's hit or miss on the weather in the spring. I'll I'll definitely say that. I mean, you could get like a cold day or you could get a steaming hot day. But the cool thing about the spring like the April may timeframe is that everything is in bloom. So the gardens in London are probably one of my other favorite things London. So you've got Holland park, which has amazing gardens and a really fun playground for kids. You've got Kensington Palace gardens, which they have a sunken garden. It's like deep into the ground. It's right outside the palace. And actually the Princess Diana memorial park is at Kensington Palace. It is Peter Pan themed. That's so there is a row. Recht full-size pirate ship. There are teepees. There's little a music area. There's like three different sandboxes. It's it's very very neat. You've got the Chelsea visit garden what you do have to pay to get into. But it's room. Cool. Succumbing in the spring is is so fun going through Notting hill, the portabella road market Notting hill, the facades of the buildings like the colorful doors and the wisteria going up along the outside of the building. I mean, it's just gorgeous. So I highly recommend the spring as a good temperate time to kind of feel out the weather, but also just London so pretty in the spring. So when you say springs, you mean, March demean April what what Jon time timeframe, are you really like honing in. I would say April, and may okay, two months. Yep. It sounds amazing. Just yeah. I I mean, I just picturing all the parks and stuff like that. Especially with it being colder here right now. Just sounds lovely. So how long would you say that you would wanna come in specially with kids? So you're transitioning with the time change and the jet lag and stuff like that. What would you say you probably need to be there? How many days, you know, without feeling rushed? Yeah. That's such a hard question. So I always tell people that London is a city made beautiful by subtleties. So worst, you can common hit all the big spots. You know, we mentioned a lot of those earlier, you know, Big Ben Westminster Abbey. Also, the parliament London is so on and so forth. But really the beauty of London. I think is in the neighborhoods in wandering around and just noticing some of the smaller things popping and some of the smaller places. That's when you really fall in love with London. Otherwise, it seems like a hectic big-city it really does. So I would say minimum five days which a lot of people don't like because if they're coming to London they're usually going somewhere else, and they wanna make the most of their Europe trip. But if you asked me, I would say five days because you're really gonna take your whole first day just to catch up like you mentioned jet lag in the time difference most flights to the UK from the US or Red Eye flights. So usually land, you know, around seven AM, and we push all of our guests to try and stay up until eight PM. If they can, you know, of course, kids maybe six, but we say unless they normally nap at home, if you have kids that are older, and and don't not we save triumph. Push it in get out and go sightseeing that first day go hit all those big places. Go walk go see things because his otherwise you're just never going to catch up and get on the time really that last day is just travel getting everything together. So. That gives you three solid days in London, which I don't think is enough by what you're saying. Right. Like that you would recommend. Yeah. No, definitely I and I love that. You're saying try to make it till eight and six thirty. For people like, okay, we just need to do this. Yeah. And it's hard. But that's just don't sit down. Don't don't guys. The. Hey, you guys. I hope you enjoy part one of this interview. Don't forget to tune in next week as we talk about Paris and Belgium CNN last week.

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#62: Morocco 1980 Week of September 23, 2019

The EuroWhat? A Eurovision Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

#62: Morocco 1980 Week of September 23, 2019

"The role to go look out away yeah we come uh confirmed participation right now we are at thirty six countries no new countries have announced that they'll be debuting at Eurovision but Ukraine has announced that they will be returning this year I guess as long as nothing crazy happens after their selection show like it did this year something tells me in that particular case that they're probably going to be me for it yes I'm excited about this one like I did research I purchase a book off the Internet for this one who this is for real peaceful skin so much news it is as though the New Year has begun the main one that I was happy to see finally get resolved Iceland and Atari actions during the issue where the NFL couldn't really prevent that from happening the broadcast like CBS and the individual affiliates couldn't prevent that from happening her yeah it's just such a peculiar situation yeah I think everybody is just too happy that it's over yeah we can move on and Iceland's all right how are you doing ben it's good as of today on the calendar is officially fall it's currently like eighty degrees outside so whenever fall is ready to get here I scoring roof reported this week that they have been fined five thousand euros by the EU all of the major news sources I could find for this made it very clear that this is the minimum possible too low and welcome to the euro what at the number sixty two for the week of September twenty four I'm Ben Smith and I'm joined today by Mike mccomb Hey Mike anybody involved edu like it seemed like their hands for kind of tied but then roofs hands were also kind of tied and hind although I do like we are a pair of Americans try and make sense of the Eurovision Song contest and this week we'll be talking about Morocco is a brief appearance in the history of the contest how is it going Mike I'm reading the translated official statement that roof is just like okay so we did everything that we could we can never completely prevent artists on their behalf from saying or doing anything that might contra yeah I am a big fan of the podcast you're wrong about and like found like a few topics in in our column of things we should eventually do on the show for this for these actions so I feel like I was correct in saying that this was going to be a slap on the wrist if that yeah I feel like there was a no win situation for really and like fines were levied anyway and yet it just gets into kind of like a I don't even know how to describe it just like Rule Enforcement Eurovision next year like ninety eight percent of our popular watched it we very much like the Eurovision we disagree with this fine but we will still be there so they join the list of countries Mike Oh this'll be a good one for like one of us to go off and do the research and then explained to the other one I agree to recover some news before we dive into so much news there has and ask where feels about Crimea bright we also found out that Turkey will not be participating this coming year which I don't think it's a huge in doing this they listed a bunch of artists currently with B. M. G. in the press release none of whom are probably going to be available for next May the name that they dropped Mabel who's feels fresh but like we're getting little glimpses at different ways that countries are going to be shaking up their selection process feels interesting particularly in the case of the UK ice their list of grievances none of that's been address Turkey's still has the same complaints and they're not GonNa do it none of the Yes were participating no we're not news I don't call me up definitely got some pop justice love as somebody who follows that blog Louis capacity who is currently rocketing up the American charts as well as the British charts Georgia's don't have to do a public selection it's not going well and in particular BBC has announced that they are partnering with the G. Record Label to select the artist and song for Twenty Twenty Dick the rules of the competition right we can sit down and go guys you can't do this but like you can lead the horse to eurovision but you can't prevent it from pulling out of Palestinian flag at the last second purpose of the podcast talked about the Janet Jackson's Super Bowl Wardrobe malfunction so nicely time for this because it's it's really kind of the same because like the hands okay we're going in turn will again which can wise choice I feel like that was something we hit said hey just you know on top of clean bandit's rather be I had no idea she was so successful in the UK does numbers over there like as somebody who has listening enjoy both of her albums it kind of boggles my mind that she doesn't quite connect over here but that's the case for so many UK artists following up on our specific come to Jesus talk that we had with who does very well in the UK and is definitely had at least a few performances over here Jess Glynne who had a UK number ones and is mostly just known over here for being the person who consequences have been dealt with and we we know that they'll be participating in next year's contest they closed out there so we're still going to do it does not happen again you never know again everybody saw the horse to water but you can't you can't confirm that the judges probably get a Sheeran if they wanted to I had no idea that he had a brother I'm pretty sure that the second Ed Sheeran's first album went platinum that they immediately got all the other now she's busy yeah and then the other one was Katharine mcphee which I could actually see that panning out and I'm not sure yeah I mean it's just it's a very tricky situation thing is speaking of you're wrong about the most Ed Sheeran is not a Jarvis so they probably can't get him and also he's like I need eighteen months to do nothing right now his brother math though as a composer so they could and a couple that jumped out to me which I think would be hilarious 'cause there is no way that she would do if only because if that would be the worst idea or the best idea dear the UK let Katharine mcphee be Your Star Yes oh if they made the third season of smash and it was like between her and Megan hilty representing the UK at Eurovision a NBC. Call me please I I have a lot of really bad ideas in Chicago and my friend Adam from twitter back on topic Spain also announced that they're doing an internal selection a couple of people who've been in talks with their broadcaster Diana Navarro and Ruth Lorenzo of Ruth Lorenzo represented Spain should given that their last forever has not really been successful Spain is going to try to find a well known artist to represent them go move to Los Angeles for three months to kind of break it over here so I'm going to be busy yeah that should be interesting to see if that happens yeah ends on some sort of deal yeah yeah just just in case Yeah Yeah I was looking at the list of other BMG artists no word yet on win any of these artists will be selected or any of those announcements will be made so We will keep you posted months away from like any of these things being actual with the needle so nope that is the news this week I wanted to talk about Morocco at the contest primarily because at the Madrid pre we need the point yeah announcing early doesn't necessarily serve you well I in Armenia announced in November of last year and I don't I don't think that thinks she may have retired from music but also just in general yes yeah yeah I mean it's like Oh if you thought it was going to be there with her little about Morocco's singular entry I know that it was in nineteen eighty and they haven't been back since and it has the distinction of being the only African nation to participate in the contest. Mike in kind of you're wrong about fashion what do you know about Morocco at the contest I just want to see the season of the program Serban numbers are back there's like a handful of people in Chicago watching this it's the only entry that's been completely in Arabic and might be the only salty had some Arabic in it but late Arabic has not had much representation in twenty fourteen perhaps working with somebody a little bit more established might turn out for them party this year there was like a weird montage I could not figure out the theme of the entry of the picking and one of them was the Moroccan entry which I did not realize that thing so Moroccan a glimpse of the full contest which is in lieu of that and while waiting for the books I had ordered off of Ebay to arrive at my house I started digging into kind of what was going on I don't know what to do I'm not sure what to make of this news idea like that Eleni legal yeah no they talked to me too I was like Nah yeah I mean she's she's Israel had one for a second time as we mentioned in our nineteen seventy-nine episode but it's like we don't have the money to do this again Spain was asked me and said no I went to Wikipedia as a starting point and there's not a lot there which is why I hadn't like go and dig up a couple books mostly because like the couple Eddie Irvine Song contest I think that's about Ed's that is a reasonable amount of information about Morocco at the contest because like of all of the the scrambling around the contest is no longer happening in March and the they select in April is Israeli Davor member it so Israel can't participate is the is that there aren't there aren't any web resources about the places we had to go are like actual books that were that have been published by fans trying to get like during Eurovision nineteen eighty without Morocco. It's already a little bit weird it is the twenty-fifth contest is the silver anniversary of Eurovision you have like a handful of which is going on and the nineteen eighty Dutch was it even English French and Dutch or but we are going to reuse the profit from the last time we hosted also we're going to try and do this as cheaply as possible everybody is fine with that because they just want your vision to happen at that point but because only time in the history of the of the contest where the winning nation doesn't participate I think that I found very funny is that the show is held almost entirely in Dutch the the UK has been the go-to backup they were also like nope were we are good so after a lot of scrambling around the Netherlands is like okay so we will host Rockin entry is some Era Benz odds be Takata Hope uh-huh doing great like she's definitely making inroads in Spain and like I want he was if I remember the news report I read correctly was like no I'm eighty so like really kind of going in context free and I don't have much familiarity with North African pop or minimal as you can get on in like watching the video because I did go back to the video like there's a lot of Dutch going on they just had not done well okay yeah like they come back in two thousand four and they continue to not do that great so in the midst of all of this Morocco is here the one updating between episodes to get all of our links in order and see what we wanna talk about and I try to stay out of the dock as much as possible because I wanted to a song that's in a totally different language and like I'm sure in the context of a contest that is mostly in Dutch right and it's not like I have a sense of what pop music or like not even pop music but like what you're revision and trees would be at nineteen addition to Israel not being there Monaco also departed and Monaco does not come back to the contest until two thousand and four was there a reason for that or were they just like I don't know what I was supposed to latch onto I guess what I'm trying to say and it's not like there was anything like bad about the song about the song it was just like Oh it's a song that's being performed and like knowing that Morocco never came back to the contests Oh probably didn't so Morocco places eighteenth Ireland winds a are like what what the music style would have been at that time so I just kind of went in not really sure what to expect I think it was fine very standard kind of mid Tampa we not quite a ballad but not not super up tempo either and then like the thing that Kinda that Kinda let me down about it is the last okay well so okay yeah I mean we will we will get you how it did in a minute but like some things that I notice is just as I was like watching this it was like hot on the heels of nations it got seven points from Italy so Italy Italy was fond of it unfortunately nobody else was I have no clue if it was people were just not into Morocco just sort of coming into the contest and being there or if it was just there were better songs but anyway some of the the aftermath of the nineteen eighty content I watched all of the nineteen seventy-nine contest and like it felt very much of a piece with some of the entries that year which makes sense because music trans tend to not just be you know one year old learn about this as listeners learning about this and like I very I made sure that all of minute were blacked out so that you could not so that you would not be spoiled on anything right it it was performed fifth in the running order and as you mentioned it's entirely in Arabic and it's really the only entry that has that distinction did you listen to the long and it's like okay everything is going to be much better than this or much worse than this is the exact average of a so yeah and like I feel like he if you were if you were looking at that video just kind of without any context of what nation is singing you're like okay this is someplace you could probably place it as as a crane like roughly I would say that it was a very I don't want to call it a beige song but it's it's so neutral like it's just like it is at the baseline of a saw that's just linguistic whiplash unlike the thing for me like you know Oh this is just okay it feels like the disco percussion and strings that we had kind of noticed in the nineteen seventy-nine contest still kinda popping up in nineteen eighty. I agree with that but at the same time it's just like the tone of the book is kind of reverently irreverent which kind of matches my general vibe of Australia's feelings towards the contest went looking in the sometime in the seventy s or late seventies just based on the orchestration bright and then just given the Arabic you you Kinda pick out what nations at that time it was coming from but like yeah there's nothing that distinguishes it or really makes it Kinda rise above you were kind of lukewarm on this and and new didn't play it placed eighteenth out of nineteen participate it did what did you what did you think I don't know what I was expecting going into listening to this because to pull back the curtain a little bit like we have a show notes stock that we're both the current Ken Burns documentary about country music and finding it fascinating but like when you've been listening to a bunch of what was going on in country that time especially when you look at musical in the seventies and we didn't have like the Weird Model John Staff like we do now with like Old Town road it was nice to hear desma engen turns out to be an Aussie television commentator and he actually did commentary for the two thousand four two thousand five contests Australia so I have no actual way of proving that the king of Morocco actually decreed one way or the other whether Morocco were participate again the Moroccan broadcaster. Sm are looked like yes I have it I have the source from the wikipedia pages I will find exactly what it says and more will be known to me it's two sentences it's two sentences after one appearance wikipedia mentions the king of Morocco essentially was like this was terrible were never coming back and

Morocco Spain Chicago Ukraine Ruth Lorenzo twitter Los Angeles Madrid Israel BMG Adam Armenia Australia Ken Burns Diana Navarro Mike Ebay Eddie Irvine desma engen Ed
The Recruiters

BROKEN: Jeffrey Epstein

52:17 min | 3 d ago

The Recruiters

"This episode talks about the sexual abuse of minors and maybe upsetting to some listeners. This is a witness list of some of the people that I was listening to and. The people that I was traffic to. That's Virginia Robert. GIUFFRA. And her friend, America Shartouni. Both women say they were abused by Jeffrey. Epstein, around the same time in the early two thousands well, your list is long micheals hand is shaking as she holds that single piece of white paper. There are dozens of names on that list. Names of people who Virginia Says Epstein forced her to sex with as a teen. Some have been typed out. Others scribbled in different colored inks as Virginia remembers them it's It's a heavy paper. Sure Yeah. It's not easy handshake as not easy to carry and it's not easy to look up. Yeah almost like looking at a crime scene photo. Almost it's really heavy. Yeah now, how much words can? Be You, know have some way to them. Just names have so much weight to them. And names they recognize. And if you take a look at that list, how many have been held accountable None. Absolutely none you've heard Virginia's story earlier in the season she's been in the public. I sensed two thousand eleven when she first came forward about her abuse. You're probably less familiar with America. The Person Virginia sometimes calls her secret weapon. Morocco lives in Washington state she's a soft-spoken former model with two kids. She was brought to Jeffrey Epstein's house two decades ago. And the experience was so horrible it changed the trajectory of her life. She now spends a lot of time tracking down the people who many victims say helped Epstein commit his crimes. That's kind of scary. How easy it is to find people to be honest with you Morocco has put those skills to work for Virginia. According to many witnesses, police, reports, and court documents, F seen sexual abuse ring involved dozens maybe even hundreds of co-conspirators a few have been named, but the vast majority haven't been Maria wants to identify as many of those people as she can. She's been helping Virginia make connections between the many people. She says, she was traffic to the people on that heavy sheet of paper I've got street smart, but I don't have the. Ability to put things together. This is why I felt like sharing it with. My good buddy here would she would kind of like, oh I know this and that connects to that in this next to that. I wouldn't say until just the right word I would just say we each different talents and you know good a pattern matching. Pattern matching is how America has been able to pierce the layers of Epstein's recruitment operation. Many witnesses recounted cadre of recruiters did the work of approaching girls and convincing them to go to Epstein's house. Any of these people were allegedly paid to find deliver new victims to feed obscene insatiable appetite. And then there were the enablers, the people who stood by doing their job making scenes life easier while he abused girls. has become sort of a private eye tracking these recruiters neighbors down through publicly available information. She's become an expert at gaming Google different search terms. She pours through Web Archives and knows how to dig deeper into facebook than most of us can imagine. She's voting records, court filings she triangulate S-. Relatives and friends until she gets ahead. Often, she can find contact information. Some people are finding others I mean. It depends on how hard they are hiding. Depends on their age too I mean the younger people are like. They want to be on instagram sharing their fabulous life facebook. And twitter. Murray says no vigilante she doesn't confront these people. In fact, she's incredibly reserved. She just wants to be able to pass along their names and information to the women whose lives they damaged. For her and for so many other victims justice means that those who enabled abuse are not able to hide. I want to say, I'm like not doing malicious reasons. I. There's no way it ever contact these people I find them, send the information off. Let it go. Support for this podcast comes from state farm here with good news and even better news. The good news state farm has new lower car insurance rates. The even better news that means you can now get the service and convenience of a local state farm agent at surprisingly great rates. State. Farm can help you save more cash and get the good neighbor service. You deserve just talk to your local state farm agent or visit State Farm Dot com to find out how much you can save on your car insurance when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm is there. I'm Tara Palmeri hosted broken seeking justice. I've been reporting alongside the victims of Jeffrey Epstein in their quest for justice from the people who are still alive. Epstein's co-conspirators and enablers are still out there. Many of them are very powerful and they want the story to go away. But a band of survivors without money connections are standing up to them refusing to be silenced. Over the season, we've told you about how the justice system largely failed these victims. The authorities barely brought to justice and since his death have only charged Lane Maxwell harassed gave the survivor some hope. But they've been let down so many times before they're not taking chances now. So Mike is doing her own investigating and she's doing it with the help of other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein instead of just sitting back and saying, okay, this happened to me was me I'm going to do what I can to make sense of it, and for me it's helping the other survivors. And helping myself by. Figuring out. And finding those who haven't come forward what Miranda offers is a way for victims to do more than just wait for law enforcement to investigate and arrest people which could take years and frankly may never happen for those figures who played crucial roles in their abuse but minor roles in the overall operation. While victims wait for the wheels of Justice turn. They also want to make peace with what happened to them. So many of these women were recruited by people trusted. Many victims feel nearly as much anger towards these recruiters as they do to Epstein. They say they want to understand what motivated these people to bring them into epsteins world. Learning these details and getting acknowledgement or even an apology can make it easier for the victims to process the abuse and move forward with their lives. Virginia told us that after nearly a decade of talking to the FBI, she's given up instead of calling them when she remembers something new she calls Morocco. I can trust her so much more than I can trust our authorities, which is really crappy when I call. RANKA and I'm like, can you check this out? She gets back to me within like fifteen minutes and tells me okay, this leads to this. This leads to this. Virginia America and more than a dozen other victims met each other for the first time last summer in a Manhattan courtroom after I've seen, death? As court wild said in our last episode that was the day when so many survivors realize they weren't alone. Since then these women have been in contact through texts and emails, they talk about a lot of really private emotional things but they also work together to identify those people who helped Jeffrey Epstein commit his crimes. there. Slew thing is spearheaded by Moraga. I asked a few other survivors if they wanted me to find their recruiters, 'cause they are. Wondering about their whereabouts and because that was also a huge missing piece in their trauma, their story, these recruiters buried for many victims that was another girl sometimes a friend in high school. Some of those recruiters were also children at the time. And then they were all victims who were recruited at a party or on the street by someone they can barely recall they may only remember a part of the name or no name at all, but the face is indelibly imprinted in their memory. The women's share whatever bits of information they have where they recruited, and when sometimes they can only remember the Vegas details recruiter in her twenty s had long dark hair and New York around nine eleven. Other women will fill in more. Before long, there are enough details to narrow the search to find photos of Epstein with those people. breakable will share those photos and the victims often say, yes, that's the woman right there. They're not necessarily hiding and they're heading i. still have the ability to find them. Has Been doing this for other survivors for close to a year. Now, there's nothing formal about it. Usually, a victim will reach out to Moraga and she's happy to start the hunt. Was Michelle Cada who shared her story with US IN SEASON ONE? Michelle was sixteen a friend in high school. Convinced her to come to Epstein's house where he abused her. Much of her ongoing agony has been knowing that her recruiters out there somewhere untouched in a lake. It was this girl this girl that betrayed me the score that was supposed to be my friend. That's part of the reason that to this day I don't trust friends. I can't even trust somebody that I would consider my friend to not do that to me. Michelle. Only remembered some of the details about her recruiter, a first name, her age, and the school they both attended. They'd been out of touch for so long. Rakha. Foul. Michelle's recruiter in less than thirty minutes. Michelle's repair just with the under the radar living a perfect life. She worried about how Michelle would react but she ultimately texted the screen shot her. Yes, she actually found. The girl my recruiter and when I got the information. I was. Just sitting there looking at it and I said, well, she looks like she's doing pretty well for her life and I said. I wanted somebody else to ask her. Those questions that I'm too afraid still to this day to ask her like that's just one of the puzzle pieces. That has been missing. Michelle's recruiter was another teenage girl at school when they met. which was common with an Epstein orbit. Lugar say charging someone like her with a crime would be challenging as she was also underage and may have been a victim. Those are the trickiest kinds of cases from America honey really wrestle with that. I mean they were both children and they're put in this horrible position who has rules she doesn't decide what happens with the names, the people she uncovers. That she believes up to the women who were victimized by them. From me to hold, she shares details with other obscene victims some share them with their own lawyers. Reich has given names. The FBI to we know for certain that America has found at least one recruiter in Epstein trafficking ring who has never been approached by law enforcement. America's work literally led us to a warehouse in New Jersey were woman who has never spoken before confess that she as an adult brought a woman to Jeffrey Epstein who was then abused, and this is someone who has key details about Epstein's. World. Morocco specializes in finding people like that people in epsteins orbit who have been able to move on them also. Able. To pattern much and put narratives together and timelines together and. Figure out. Who the perpetrators were and How they were connected. After the break I'm GonNa tell you more about Maresca and how one traumatic experience with Epstein landed her at the center of one of the biggest sex trafficking operations in US history trying to put the clues together about how she and so many others ended up there. The perfect life is shattered in an instant everything changes and nothing stays hidden in the undoing Hbo's New Thriller Starring Nicole, Kidman, and Hugh, grant these powerhouse Actors Play Grace, and Jonathan. Frazier an affluent married couple who seemed to have at all. Until the murder since their lives into a tailspin. What will be left once the dust settles stream the undoing now on HBO Max. Moroccan her sister grew up in a small town called Sitka in Alaska. Her parents were divorced when she was eight years old and she was raised by her do it all single mom? Her mom was a ship captain construction worker basically anything that would make ends meet take care of her daughter's. Michael was a quiet child a bit of a bookworm. She was the tallest girl in the class and gangly, but you grew into your body and with white blonde hair and piercing blue eyes she developed into a striking vision, a statuesque model, the type of woman you'd see on the runways of new. York and Milan. After high school. MILWAK- moved to San. Francisco, to live with her cousin and within three months she was scouted at a bar. She was asked to move to New York to work for one of the most prestigious modeling agencies in the World Karen models. I was twenty I was living in the West village and I was really young and naive. It wasn't as glamorous as she expected, Morocco lived in a model dorm above a McDonald's on third avenue. It was one of those tiny apartments in a former tenement with bunk beds lined up against any available wall space. Here's what her life was like you're being told what to do. Where to go and how to be. An how to dress and how to act and. Who not to go out with and who to go out with it was a surreal time. She had interesting friends in the art world they were a bit eccentric, but that was New York. There were posh nightclubs where celebrities hung out massive townhouse parties hosted by obscure moneymen and every door seemed to be open to America because she was beautiful. was. All exciting and fun until one of those eccentric friends started asking her questions about her taste in men. She started asking me questions are now in hindsight a little bit more probing. Do like Goldman. Like Morocco, the friend was a young woman trying to find her way in New York. They were both in their early twenties. But the women had grown up nearby. She seems know her way around I had met her through a friend of mine. And you know as in New York, you made everyone through another friend through France, very social place and I had gone to know hearn. Mehanna common interest of art and we had gone out a few times. I trust. Her. I regarded her as a friend soon, the woman made plans for her and Maria to meet up with someone else. Should just like Oh. Do you WANNA meet a friend of mine? He really likes blondes and we I pictured some. Trust Fund Kid. Who was our age? Who is a musician Louis parents? Reich took the subway with her friend, the upper east side to meet this guy. On the right uptown the front starts telling Moraga this guy was different. She said he wants you Cooper Union. said he was a mathematical genius. She said he was like a self made man. And then she's like, oh, by the way, is a little bit older to aunt shoe didn't. Frame it as like being any more than just meeting a friend of hers. Morocco was still expecting something normal. Instead, she arrived the biggest house. She'd ever seen a twenty eight thousand square foot neoclassical townhouse. The place was seven stories tall dwarfing its neighbor, the famous. Art Collection. It was just so opulent and huge and. I just remember feeling like really. Like all of a sudden like super insecure and like what am I doing? Her friend rings a bell at one of the fifteen foot high oak door shaded by pear trees. The doors opened by one I've seen staff. I've never seen Manson uniform before like you walk in the door. you see all the staff members and then he's there. and. I'm like. Am I and there's other people in this office making it seems so normal and I'm like what the Hell is going on. The best way to describe it was literally like, Alice, in Wonderland because like the rabbit hole as soon as you got in that door. BARAGA had no idea how to act there and like okay let's play this. Cool and I mean I didn't expect anything nefarious to happen. What happened next has impacted Mera's life significantly, her friend introduce her to Epstein in a private room the house. We won't be discussing those details, but it was traumatic. And Morocco says, she wasn't just assaulted by Epstein. But also by her friend. She never reported the incident to the police. She didn't know where to turn. The? French she talked to about it afterwards weren't understanding. People I did. Talk about it they all said well. That's your fault basically. You could've left that house. Yeah they all blamed me for. Do you think you really could've left I was in a house. It was huge. I was surrounded by people who made this behavior normative I was the front I trusted and I had no idea what was going on and I didn't know how to leave. Afterward Morocco became depressed and more reserved. She was suspicious of her new friends in New York. She left the city about a year later and move back home to live with her mom. Back in Washington she did her best to forget all about her painful experience. She thought she was the only girl. This had happened to. She thought it was a closed door. Maria was in Bali. When she saw epsteins face on the news a face she hadn't seen for almost twenty years. Ten Thousand Miles Away Epstein had been hauled off his private jet to jail. Morocco remembered his face vividly but not his name is something I'm buried really daily and you know didn't talk about and. and. So seeing his photo and then seeing the FBI and. Knowing that? I. I wasn't the only one. I wasn't alone. It was. It was all it was all a bit surreal. She was on vacation and she didn't want to relive the disturbing memory not yet. But when she got back home three days later she made sure her kids were asleep then called the FBI from inside her bathroom. It was three a m but a woman picked up. America whispered the story to the case agent. Then shown a sleeping pill and went to bed. In the morning she had some regret. She's picking her car from the mechanic when the FBI called again, they wanted more details. Maria realized that she couldn't recall very much. And she still had so many questions about the woman who brought her to Epstein. Mean didn't even have a last name. Maria quickly realized that the more cold hard facts she added her disposal, the more useful she could be to the people looking into her case. I. Just remembered very details. Remember what she looked like memberships Korean. I remember where she lived. In New Jersey I remember. You know how she dress up shoes an artist, all of those details and remember she went art school. Just. Blocked out her name. Morocco couldn't recall recruiters name but you remembered how the other woman seem to know her way around Epstein's house and had the air of a regular. She was very comfortable there and she knew. The her ropes around Laron do you know? Everything that she was doing and knew her place sin, she never left my side the whole time we were there. Started reading up on Epstein and there was one name that kept coming up over and over. Virginia Roberts. Defray. With, just a few clicks, Morocco discovered that their experiences with Epstein had overlapped. Learning about Virginia's story enraged Miranda she empower me to come publicly I think seeing the photos of her published in the Daily Mail I. Think it was in July where she was at the party. where she was falling around where she looked like she was about twelve years old to remember those photos. A that was it was obsolete. This fetish were horrendous. I thought doesn't speak volumes I. Mean I mean just anyone that would see those photos be like. I mean anyone who would see her that I mean they must they everyone knew? I mean, that was a child. When Morocco and Virginia finally met that day in the courtroom in. Manhattan. Moraga timidly asked her if they could talk the two women stepped into the hallway in search of a vending machine to buy vitamin water. And that's when the small Talk Real Baraka described her recruiter to Virginia but she looked like where she lived other details, she could remember. And that's when Virginia blurted. It out. Arena. I learned her name. Again. I mean you're name's always there, but I just had like blocked it out. And I didn't know anywhere last name. Now wanted. RIINA had made a real impression Virginia to she saw riina frequently for about three months she says. Reno. Was Willing to do whatever obscene wanted. That was early in two thousand to about eighteen months after Morocco met her. So I'm not Rena A. New York. Jeffrey introduced me to her. And Jeffrey, kind of looks it uh-huh news like totally Perr Youtube together. Virginia told Morocco the once asked her for a favor. She was constantly jealous of the fact that she didn't get treated like the other girls. So she couldn't travel with Epstein she didn't get the. I hate to call benefits because that's not what it was. It was to go get abused by more men and she didn't realize what she was saving herself from but she was like, could you please throw a good word in for me so I can travel with you guys. Actually and I told Jeffrey, that she wants to come traveling. She wants to be a part of it more and I can't remember his sentiments exactly. But it was like will she's not GonNa, get it basically, and then I never saw arena again after that conversation. With confirmation of recruiters first-name Rina and the few details she in Virginia remembered. Reich started the furious search for her whereabouts. It took a while to find her. 'cause we only had a first name but I, you know I remembered certain details that allowed me to finder. Install about pattern ranching and following money. It took some digging but Maria found her Reena Oh. She was an artist and had an old blog even twitter account. They were even a few photos of her on her website. She was exactly how I remember and I sent the photos off to Virginia she confirmed day. You know at least I had someone else that I needed. Someone else that could confirm. Thank goodness. Wasn't as me. Maria could not so much about this woman who had changed her life. She found somehow finding her recruiter helped her process her trauma. lasorda with my own investigating wanting to find and track down my own recruiter just for my own peace of mind. I was closure. From America this launch obsession with recruiters and helping the other victims find there's it's not just for closure either there's a practical reason to find these people to. Identify a recruiter or witness can help victims backup their legal claims against epsteins estate, which is estimated to be worth more than six, hundred, thirty, million dollars. Morocco says that Rena witness her assault and even took part. Thinks about Rena allot more than she thinks about Epstein for a while before Mica realized who Epstein was before his pattern of abuse became public choose more angry at Rena at the person who she believed had lured her into a dangerous situation. She still wonders why Rena chose her of all the pretty girls in new. York. was there something about Morocco that made her think that she wouldn't say anything? was arena cruel naive complicit. Victim to. Morocco wanted to know if Rena felt any remorse about bringing her Jeffrey Epstein. She needed to see if in hindsight she realized that it was wrong. It was a trap. She needed to hear that she wasn't crazy for feeling. So terrible about what happened. But she didn't want to confront Rena. Herself. But just felt too intense. So with her permission. We did for her. That's next after the break. The perfect life is shattered in an instant everything changes and nothing stays hidden in the undoing HBO's new thriller. Starring Nicole Kidman and Hugh Grant these powerhouse actors. Play Grace and Jonathan Frazier an affluent married couple who seemed to have at all. Until the murder since their lives into a tailspin. What will be left? Once the dust settles. Stream. The undoing now on HBO Max. Maria dug up a g mail address and she was sure it belonged to the art student who brought her to ABC's house two decades earlier. I dashed off an email requesting to interview Reno for the series. One day later, she responded with some questions of her own. I was surprised to hear back. But as we were looking into serious allegations against her I was glad to be communicating with her. After some discussion Rena agreed to meet us at her art studio. She wanted to show off her artwork particularly some pieces inspired by Jeffrey Epstein and the people around him. So on a brisk day in January I ordered an Uber with my producer and headed to her Studio Space Jersey. The driver dropped us off at look like A. Wasteland. In fact, the studio is inside a former factory. While we waited for Reno checked out the scene to the right of us were trained tracks to our left. There were old chimney stacks and abandoned factories with busted windows. Then Rena walked up with elderly yorkie named Mosey to show US inside. She's a petite woman with sharp cheekbones and long black hair. She lives not far from the studio in northern New Jersey with her family. It soon became clear why people from her past might remember Rena so vividly She is a character. Within a minute of meeting, US Rena tells us that she painted much of her Epstein themed artwork while make it. Rena told us she was a young artists studying at the School of Visual Arts when she met Epstein to a friend and he offered to pay four few of her credits. He also offered her gallery space in Soho. She was living with her parents in the suburbs at twenty one she thought this wealthy man could help her career introducer to potential clients get her name on the map. When she first met him she thought Jackpot I, found myself of really great art return who who's going to buy our work for me. Like a lot of artists Rena subscription of her work can be a bit building as she leaves us around her studio. She says that her core theme is the ongoing battle between good and evil. Rina became interested in this after I. Gave Her book on the fall of Babylon. If you read about the history of Babylon and what's been done to children Babylon, they have historically been used as sex slaves and offered to the gods to the deities as sex slaves. There are some dark themes of abuse and rape and her work. There's a painting of a naked pregnant teenager. There's a sculpture of mothers who seem to be protecting their babies from sinister. Figures. She painted Prince Andrew as Bacchus, the god of wine. There's a painting of d'alene Maxwell Nude in the garden of Sin Holding Forbidden Fruit in her hand like eve. Rena even Scotch plains? Father. Robert Maxwell. then. There's this giant blown up print of the famous photo of Prince Andrew with his arm around Virginia. Rena recalls that Virginia, told her about dancing with the prince back in the early two thousands. While you're looking at the photograph that everyone has. Published and syndicated worldwide, and it's it's the photograph of Virginia Roberts Goo Free Prince Andrew of England and Gillan Max while in her London residents and this photograph was taken allegedly on the night. that. They had. A sexual encounter. Float up. I blew it up to show. That he may not be wrong when he said that the picture was doctored. To me as a painter and photographer, the lighting. Doesn't look great. Rena says she studied the photo to see if it's a fake she believes it's a composite image. Hold the hand is to read. Compared to her hand. and. There's a bit of Blurry Blur here which looks like it's it's a finger. And that just doesn't belong there. Rena said her husband encouraged her to speak to us? This is where it gets even weirder. In his twenties remains husband Vincent Amon worked for Michael Jackson, he actually lived on the Neverland Ranch Almond was named as one of the five unindicted co-conspirators in the unsuccessful thousand and five prosecution against Jackson for molesting minors on who denies all allegations against him believes that telling his side of the story help preserve his reputation, and so he suggested that Rena do the same. So that's one of the reasons she agreed to speak with us. Rina said she and Epstein were in a relationship that he was her older rich boyfriend. She knew that she wasn't the only woman he was dating in fact, he would ask about her friends and the girl she met at school or they pretty could she bring them to him? When I asked about the allegations against her RENA admits she brought three women to meet Epstein. She also recalled being asked to take Virginia shopping for a sexy schoolgirl outfit. So she took her to a shop on Saint Marks Place Downtown. Virginia also alleges that Rena was involved in abusing her when she was seventeen, which involves some- SM activity. RENA denies this. Although Rena says, she brought women obscene she denies it she was a recruiter for him. To her that seems more malicious and intentional than what she did. Even though she took a teenager to buy a sexy schoolgirl outfit she says, she didn't know that I've seen was having sex with anyone who was underage. When you saw Virginia running around or whatever she was doing like, what were you thinking? You're like, who is the scarlet? What is she doing here? Well. No she was introduced to me and I was told to become friends with her I became friends with her. Who told you that or different? No. Jeffrey. Told me by and and on one occasion I was asked to go take her shopping and this is what you know. This is what I want you to go look for. So then I took her shopping, but did you know it was going to be like a sexual thing? Wasn't told what it was going to be I was just called and said, can you take Virginia shopping for a little schoolgirl outfit? You would not go ticker there. We just thinking like wire they dressing her up like a schoolgirl I wasn't asking any questions. I just did as I was told, yeah you know and you don't ask questions Oh. Okay. That's not you're not privy to ask like. That's rude. You're dealing with like a billionaire right? Because he called himself a billionaire, I would say like. Why are you take by? Do you want me to did you see though that she was a child though and kind of like? A. Child Okay. Seven seventeen as a minor seventeen is not a child and seventeen of legal age and New York State. And most state seventeen is legal. To Stop for a second there RENA brought up the age seventeen, which is indeed the age of consent in New York State. Virginia says she was seventeen when she met Riina but as a victim of trafficking, she had little ability to consent. From there, our conversation grew increasingly tense. Did you know that she was in a relationship with Jeffrey? I'm not gonNA answer that. Okay. Okay, I was just wondering 'cause. I know she was around him a lot. Did you think it was weird though that's an opinion and I'm not going to answer that. Virginia. Has Rena not only knew about the sexual activity she participated in. RENA denies having any sexual contact with Virginia. I'm just letting you know that what she accused me of doing is a complete fabricated lie. And I was nothing but nice to this girl. You know it was very nice and and I actually wanted to hang out with her and she declined to hang out with me. So. We actually never spent any significant amount of time together except for that one shopping adventure and she got her belly button, pierce? Out. Day. Virginia talked to us about this day as well. She says she was forced to hang out with Rena and that RENA got her belly button pierced alongside her. Really goes back and forth on whether she knew anything about Epstein's abuse of women she previously denied it but now tells us she witnessed at least one instance. She confirms also that Virginia was adept scenes house in New York on occasions. I tried to explain to her that to me. It just didn't add up. You saw Virginia in his for me the whole idea of like what is Virginia doing in his house as a teenager. You know like she's sixteen seventeen. He told you like I'm waiting until she's older. You're asking me what was she doing there? You announced answering your question. She's the only one that I met, who was this age and you're asking me what what was she doing? She was there to serve a purpose she was brought in to serve a purpose like she was groomed to do this at an early age. That's a pretty clear sign that he's a pedophile like you saw up close like he the only one who was involved Rina immediately remembered Morocco. Morocco she says that you brought her. To, see, Jeffrey unlike wall she had one experience there. It's really changed her life. I've bought three people to to that playoffs. Period and when I'm ready to talk about it, I'm going to talk about it. On the we are just asking you to let you give your side of the story. We're not accusing you were telling you what other this story as I do not abuse anyone period. People that knew about him wanted to meet him and I brought those people there. Period. I asked her for Reiko was one of those people. She was one of them and I met her very briefly. We didn't really know each other too well, and I brought her because he kept asking me bring your friends Cypriot broader ones did you think that there was a sexual component? Can we move onto the next question? Yeah sure I mean I just. It's just like this is so much a part of her story of a let's the only experience chipper how Jeffrey Epstein that's why we're asking about it. and. Like I. said before the whole thing was a trick. From beginning to end, you're track track from beginning to stretch everybody has tricked. You know you are shown a bunch of different cards. Throughout the process, it's like a recruitment process. It's like join our club and we do this in our club and you can become rich and successful once you're in this club. I asked whether arena would do the same thing today. If, she'd still invite a friend of hers to visit the home of a much older man. Absolutely, not do that. Too I. Think it's disgusting seeing. Forty year old man with twenty year olds. Chill fifties at that time right Yeah, I think it's disgusting. And I'm so traumatized from my experience says that when I see that triggers me everywhere I go. I asked if she regretted bringing Aranka I wished I didn't bring anyone there. I wish I didn't go there. But I went there. For a reason my husband was involved with Michael Jackson for a reason. The between the two of us, we know everything that we need to know to really kind of put all the pieces of this puzzle together. I had to be victimized to understand. What happens to victims? You know it's like I got a dose of everything of every little action. I got to see certain things and he got to see certain things we can piece. The pieces of the puzzle together in between the two of us, we do talk about it all the time we talk about all the time. Reno would admit that she brought Maria there and she agreed that Maria was assaulted. But. She wouldn't connect her behavior to America's assault. Before we packed up to go are reminded RENA that Morocco would hear this episode. I asked what she would say to. America. If she was standing right in front of her I would say I'm sorry I didn't know what was going to happen. If you had a bad experience, you know you had a bad experience I was not abuse of. I'm not abusive person. If you have a few minutes to spare it really help us out. If you could take this short listener survey, it'll let us learn more about our audience, which helps us sell the ads that keep this podcast free. You can also share your opinions about the show. So we know what you think is working and what we could do better. Please go to www dot broken dot show to fill out the survey. Thanks. As we drove back to Manhattan we sat in silence exhausted. When Riina told us her version of events she wasn't convincing. But she made some sense. She can clearly explain why she ended up in a relationship with Epstein. At the time she was in her early twenties a struggling artist. She believed it was beneficial for her. But as you heard whenever she's challenged, becomes defensive also refers to herself as a victim. So what can we really take away from our meeting with Rena? First of all, she remembers Virginia and how she was controlled by Maxwell Epstein she even remembers using their money by Virginia a minor a sexy costume. Shop called the told her about dancing with a prince. She even remembers the time of the year when Virginia told her this around the Oscars. She acknowledges that obscene paid for some credits at the visual arts and ask for introductions to her friends. She said, she brought three women to meet him including MERICA. Rena. Maria and Virginia at Epstein's House from a legal standpoint that gives more credibility to both women's stories. She validated that I was there on the record. But her version of events was far more vital from an emotional standpoint. Morocco had desperately wanted. RENA TOBACCO PROCLAIMS OF ASSAULT BY APP? Seen. To confirm that her own memories were accurate. I wanted to make sure Keno. Also kind of gasoline suffocate. It was really like how I remember de and Xyz again like okay. But she really and artist she really live in New Jersey was she really Korean Remember her art the same way and then. My memory's correct you know. As I've learned small victories like those have helped other victims come to terms with their abuse, but we got even further with. Rina. You heard the tape. It wasn't the most heartfelt apology in history. But I knew it would mean a lot to America. So I passed on the message she said she was sorry marijke actually she said she was sorry for what she did to you. Well, that's huge. That's for the healing begins for both her and me. Like we've learned having someone acknowledged. Their trauma can be a great relief to victims just like for Virginia hearing lawns admission. It was crucial from America's recovery process to hear from someone who knew what you went through. Even if that person wasn't ready to admit everything she knew. You don't know how much you can people with this kind of situation you don't know where they are. They're traumatizes. I thought that was the end of it and there was plenty to be happy about. But then something happened during our fact checking process. We reach out arena and her lawyer to confirm what she told us in our interview. Previously. Rina. said she brought Maria Epstein's house but wouldn't say what happened. One of the questions we sent asked if Rena confirms or denies that She Rena was in the room when Morocco was attacked by Epstein. Rina's answer. I was in the room when Morocco and I were both victimized by Epstein. I was floored. It seemed like a major admission not so much in the broad scope of this story but America story where the one personal live, who witnessed what happened was testifying to it. And now Rina was doing the thing we've been looking for all season. She was confessing what she saw acknowledging America's trauma and giving more weight awful experience. I thought. This would be great news for America. So I called her to share it. When we got on the phone, she seemed overwhelmed with this new information. This is huge. I don't think many people actually are getting this. I think this is very unique. She was relieved to how even more proof for her claim against epsteins estate. A lot of other survivors not getting restored cooperated at a lot of them aren't getting any cooperation or any callback. Some people that could help pay are just like anyone that could just say how often with timelines and so yes, I was here. Yes we talk to each other. And then there was the part of Rina's admission that she too was a victim of Epstein. Rena recently asked Brad Edwards the same attorney representing Courtney Wild and America to represent her this was shortly after the victim's compensation fund started accepting claims. The question of who is a victim is one of the most difficult but important elements of the Epstein Story. Heard so much about the miners that he raped and trafficked that it's hard to consider the adult women who helped arrange that abuse as victims to how much they were coerced, forced or manipulated into doing. What Epstein wanted is something we'll probably never know for sure. Some of potential co-conspirators who were named in the non-prosecution agreement like not Marcin Cova and Sarah Kellyn have given statements the representatives in the last year saying they were victims to. Marcin. Cova. Is the woman who has made headlines Epstein sex-slave. It's a chilling description pulled from an old police report were obscene bragged one of his victims he had purchased her from her family in Slovakia at fifteen years old. If that story has any truth is disturbing and it makes prosecuting someone like her pretty complicated. Callan his assistant who was accused of scheduling sex for obscene with minors has said she was also a victim in a statement. Her spokesperson said she too was vulnerable because of Iraqi past. Raised by Devout Jehovah's Witnesses she got married young divorced and ran away from her family by seventeen. Even Lane, Maxwell claims to be a victim of the press, of course. But can everyone epsteins orbit just claim they are a victim. Of course, he's a Predator and chose people who would do his bidding for one reason or another. For where do you draw the line? For a long time, Mike has been confused about how to feel about Rena. She sees her as a troubled young woman who has manipulated. She can understand why young girls could easily be enticed into recruiting their friends to Epstein. But an educated woman in her early twenties. Rena has not stated she was forced to bring girls to Epstein. She also says that Epstein did not traffic her two other men. From what she said, it doesn't seem like was coerced into doing any of this. But Maria doesn't resent marina for saying she's a victim I'm not going to add any more judgment at anymore hate because it's just doesn't really it doesn't suit her and I doesn't fit me and it doesn't fit this case anymore. You know from my perspective. Rena says she never brought anyone who was a minor or under the age of consent to abstain. But in some ways that's beside the point Reich is aged and protect her from the impact of her assault. She's been in pain for two decades. Like the other enablers participants in epsteins rang who brought him women Rena has paid little to no price. For America all this wasn't just about locating Rena or punishing Rena. It was about taking agency in her own case break- found the address she found the person it was about being able to put the pieces together. I don't think any of the other victims of like you know sought out there recruiter and. And found them and got them to. Admit what they did. Even. Let's just a partial admit but that's okay. She admits that I was there. Miss. That's huge. I. Mean this is huge. I mean I don't think I've really fully digesting that right now on the phone just talking to him like Oh yeah. Okay. Well, it probably should call my lawyer until the. Yeah. So I think that the phone with you but thank you I mean yeah. Thank you everyone really. And, I, think that's kind of what I wanted to do for everyone else to who needed it. You know this a service that we can all provide for each other at sink. And it's not just to you beat indicative and Mike Call People for the things they did but. Overall here to Canada he'll. Next week on broken seeking justice. There was no accountability it was just shut up and take the money and with the whole Epstein thing. That's like the big pink elephants in the room because it's like are you doing this for money? Lady Justice holds the scales in one hand and she holds a sword in the other. For Lady. Justice to use that soared to enforce ultimately. Money Justice. If you or someone you know has been a victim of sexual violence. There is help available search for rain the Rape Abuse and incest national network or go to their website at R.. A. N. N.. Dot Org. If you'd like support survivors of sexual abuse, please consider making a donation to rain at fundraise dot rain dot org slash broken. Broken. Seeking Justice is produced by three uncanny four productions. Our show is produced by Chris Ripple and Jennifer Siegel with help from Jack pandered and reporting from Emily Saul. Casey Holford composer theme and this episode was mixed by Joanna Catcher and Nice manners. Pirker Henry is our fact checker and Rachel be doyle is our editor. Our special correspondent and executive producer is Julie K. Brown. Are Executive Producers Are Adam Davidson Laura Mayor Adam McKay, and Kevin Mesic. For broken I'm Tara Palmeri we'll be back. Next week.

Jeffrey Epstein Virginia Morocco Rena America Maria Rena Rina New York New Jersey FBI assault twitter Manhattan Moraga Michael Jackson HBO HBO Rena A. Virginia