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Episode 02: Game of Thrones | Final Review

The Topic of Choice Podcast

41:30 min | 2 years ago

Episode 02: Game of Thrones | Final Review

"Yeah. Dry guys. Love. I love that music that, that introduces April. It is. It's one of those ones you can listen to just over and over the mood is set immediately. You're like everybody get your seat. Yeah. It's time for me by it sit down. And let's that title screen is just long enough to say, everybody stop what you're doing. And gather. Yeah. Which we kind of just talking about, we're losing those, those times in life where we can gather together so so geared, and I were talking and we're gonna we're going to get into the discussion of game of thrones. And we're gonna talk about, you know what, what, what are thoughts thoughts are on it, and where we think it's going, and where it's been and so on. But right before let's, let's just talk touch on that real quick. So I'm an eighties kid, same gen-x, and you made a comment and go ahead and share with just think I mean my, my son is eight months old. And I was just thinking my son is never going to get the privilege and honor of, of going with his dad and his mom to the video store to select that weekends. We typically got to go on Fridays that weekend's films. Yeah. We'd rent movies on Friday and you had to get there earlier else. The good ones will be gone. Right. So we get there like five six and then you, you know, you stroll down the aisle, my sister, and I got one of it, we got one each and so you know, that pick was like you had to think about it. What, what, what do I wanna spend my two hours watching, and it could be anything? Sure. So we had it wasn't our. And it was VHS, right? Yeah. As long as it was an are. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the VHS and usually you had the box in front of it with maybe one or two if they were available. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right behind it that you would ram releases have sometimes six or seven right? But, but the the, the good ones. You know, the oldie Goldie kind of movie, you know, you maybe one copy maybe to the most. Yeah. So I actually in college I worked at a place called blowout video allow this was in Richmond. Kentucky and gear not one hundred and I'm curious to your thoughts on. This is well, but in Richmond, Kentucky. It was in the WalMart. Walmart's subway or the Bank. So at this time, there was this, it was a VHS rental video store called blow out video and everything at WalMart. That's at that point they did. But I, I remember people would walk in and working behind the counter. There's just me one person working small little shop, and people would come in, and you have them say, 'have, you heard of that one movie that has this one guy who attacks the other person. There's no internet nine db. You actually had a puzzle out with them as we talking a villain. Reduc insides fiction. Are we talking what we're so good at the move? We are. We learned it like this, like, we had to remember the actors and the movies and the what they were in before and next, and you know what characters they played all along the way, it was the best part of rehashing these movies of your friends on the weekend and leave it or not. I am not so young. I did not get to experience blockbuster blockbuster of my favorite parts of being again. Oh, that that's good to hear. That's got that. Yeah, yeah. When captain marvel came out, we know the block Zoe. That's right. So the blockbuster movie scene that, that I think she came to the ceiling or something. And my son was watching it with me. And I said remind me to tell you what, that is because to him, it's just another convenience or completely missed like what you know what is that? And that you're right. That's a joke completely missed. But for us, it's so nostalgic going back to that the people the eighties kids that were into this then. And we're now are in the movie theater taking their children are all that's right. That's, that's a that's a tip. The cap to us. It is it is we live in a on demand world I call it. And you know I didn't quite that. But, but that's, that's what it is. So on Friday nights to your to your note, Wease family. The five of us still have family movie night. You know, so we try to take advantage of that, as our kids are still young enough to where we have, you know, they're not going out all the time with fringe, so we own sound. That's right. I mean it doesn't have to be no electron IX. It's more about, like it's community together. It's community is family right thing yesterday. So I was building entertainment center, and I have a bunch of movies that were sitting next to my old TV and I was even thinking like I don't even use these anymore. My friend was like you have this movie, and I was like Yaba. I've literally never taken out of the packaging. It's all digital now. Everything digital in like three years ago. One of my favorite things was going out and buying the DVD came out, you know, out of the theaters don't do that anymore. And so what we would have to do, when we would go to the blockbuster movies. We didn't have the option to see the trailer. Right. So for family movie night, this past. It was last night. We had last night we can do Friday night. So last night, the five of us are on the couch, and I've got the apple remote. I use the apple TV so I'm going in and nothing on Netflix looks peeling. So I'm like, well, let's see if there's any good Reynolds. So we're going down the, the tunes. And of course, you can look at the trailer for every single movie. Well, it's watch the trailer. Let's watch the trailer. So the kids, let's watch the trailer. We must have watched like ten trailers. And Finally, I you know, my wife was like, pick one or we're done, you know minutes trailers. That's right. They would they would look at the trailer and say, you know, all whereas we would go to the blockbuster video, and you don't have that luxury. You could read the back. That's right. Check out the pictures because I typically had about three that's all, and that's all you could do and the actor on the front. Yeah. And hopefully it's a it's a good choice. Yeah. Yeah. But sometimes you did not choose wisely say, Indiana Jones. That's, that's right guys, we're going to talk a little bit about game of thrones tonight and. Garrod is just I have I have I had no idea to the extent of the knowledge Bank that this that this guy has with game of thrones. So we, we're in for a treat of just learning about the origins of it. We're gonna talk about the, the seasons kind of what we thought of from the art from beginning to end. We're going to talk quickly about how season eight wrapped up, and then kind of what the thoughts are on going forward and then with the books with Georgia are Martin now in all fairness and disclosure hunter you have not seen any of them, correct? I have not. I've just ride all of angry Twitter responses over the past week when ended on last Sunday. Yeah, it was so I, I tried to say spoiler free all season eight and so what I did because I don't have an HBO subscription each season. I would wait until they were done. I would get instruction and binge it useful. And then maybe the best way to watch it. I think so because then you're not disappointed. You can just get them, you know, you're just power housing. Through. Absolutely. If I weren't just so invested I absolutely on it that way. And that's how I do the vast majority of my shows with this when it was like I can barely wait till Saturday or until Sunday. I mean everything about my week was thinking what's going to happen this week can do this? I ask the click question wondering this. So what was the thinking the reasoning behind making it into a TV show and not a movie was it, just because there was so much material be wouldn't have been able to cover. It know there's chance several moody, they considered option it into a movie several times. George basically, turn them down and said, you can't you can't do my work Justice. There's no way you could possibly do my work Justice. They were talking about a three or four part movie series. And Georgia's like I'm sorry, this is more than ten hours. Okay. Could not do it in ten hours. Yeah. And my thought I went to token when, when you ask that question and I thought that's a very possibly similar question. That somebody may have asked could you do this? In a movie. Peter Jackson, obviously showed us that can be done. It can be done. But I think to the to the extent that these books were written with soem any characters development and everything going on. I think HBO did a good job with that. So that being said, walk me through I, I want to hear a little bit about your history. When you started with game of thrones. Tell me a little bit about how that started. And then let's just let's go from there. So I was in my English class, I was an honors English with kidney Cody Bertram and Cody had a blue book out. That was really big. And I was like, what is that? And he said, it's a storm swords, and I said, swords, I like swords tell me about sorts and he said, it's this really good fantasy book that you should probably is two thousand three that you should pick up and read because I love it. And I was like, you know, I, I was not wholly sold on at that time a fan. Ford and other six months or so. I have a copy of it, and I'm just like, hey, I'll just read it. So I pick it up. I read it's hard to get hooked on the books the first two chapters kinda rough. And then after that, it's just a roller coaster, if you can get to chapter three you're just you start to get invested in the characters. And then one of the first things that happened is the castle of winner fell is a guy named Rodrick ca sell his son is a kid named jury Casello who you're immediately endeared to, because he's he grew up in winner fell with the start kids. They all know him. He's kinda like their jewelry. Right. But he's actually works for the start family and his family has for generations joy dies. In probably the first hundred fifty pages, the book and immediately, you know, this is not the kind of book, I'm used to reading right? Like they're willing to shed or hopes and dreams immediately early on. Yeah. And, and so you knew you're in for a bit of a roller coaster, and then in the end of the first. Season, you we all know, Ned stark and what happened. Right. And it's just it's just a I did not realize that's what I was reading like. Oh my gosh. What is going to happen next? So you had. So, so the way that I believe, George Martin wrote there were two years, separating each of the books, if I'm correct or them that I, I don't know, in that and I know that went to four and then five, and they started to space out, more and more. There were like three or four years between book one and two. And then after that there starts to be a period of almost like six to eight years between each one. Okay. And so it starts to get to the point where my buddy, Cody, and I've been really good friends. You know, we talk about this all the time every time we get together. And we're just always the first conversation topic is still here waiting for the next book, right? You know. And that's how it's felt for almost the majority mine life. I remember the only books that I was eagerly anticipating where the Harry Potter books. Oh, yeah. And I remember the last one that I read, which will like every three year, kind of trajectory. Exactly. And so I remember by the time I started it. Oh, gosh. I was in my late twenties. I think I picked up the first book that, well, I'm just gonna read one of these heroes, all the hype about and I read the first book, I plowed through it, and then second one third one fourth one will that was it at the time. Yeah. Goblet of fire and what do we do now? Yeah. And I'm like okay, like binge watching TV show when you know it has more seasons. Yeah. Now, I'm addicted and there's no more left to consume. Yep. And, and at that point, I remember, you know, trying to check every news article and blog and wins the fifth book coming out. So I kinda know what that feelings like obviously, we didn't have to wait that long for, for JK Rowling to, to wrap that story up, but with the series now we talked earlier in the in camera show that. Georgia are Martin is going to continue the books, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's still got. So he initially said that he was going to do as far as I heard that we're going to be three more books. So he just put out a dance with dragons. That's the seven one that's the fifth book fifth book this. Okay. So then the, the six book was is wins of winner. Okay. That one is widely wreck. Everyone knows that where that's what we're waiting on. We're just waiting on a publishing date he submitted apparently to the publishers, they are doing critiques and they're going to send it back to him. It's kind of a process that he goes through the night through with every sure, sure, more specifically than I think, most authors do. Then what they were supposed to do. I thought was do a dream of spring after that in a song of summer, and it was going to kind of wrap up, kind of, like I got the feeling it was going to kind of be like Lord of the rings with kind of an any lick send off, you know, that kind of thing with this beautiful last book, about hot level, DAL annex gets that, and it's he has since said that he's not doing song a summer dream of spring will be the last book. So I think he's just going to do it all in one big compendium giant novel. I think during the spring is maybe going to be as big biggest one page page wise. It's going to be as big as book ever. I wonder if he's just tired or maybe he just knows how to wrap it up. I think if he's tired of anything. Well, if he's tired of anything, I think it'd be the fans. Yeah. Let me let me tell you a little more about my story with the shirts. Yeah. So after my junior year and learning about these books, I got into college and I ended up going to a party one night, and I met this girl at this party who is now my. Wife and the way we met was she was playing guitar and singing a song that I liked and then we got kind of striking conversation and we got to talk about books and I said, what, you know what, are you into? And she said, I love this book series, you probably haven't heard of it. It's called song of ice and fire, and that was it. You knew at that point, I'm told there was another guy who was like kind of coming backing on it. And I said, hey, Chris, it's over. All right, you go to the other room and I'm telling you right now. It's it's over for you. We got something going on so from then on that became part of our relationship as well about four years after that George announced that on his not a blog which is his infamous. He does a blog. It's called not a blog. Okay. And he announced that HBO had optioned his books as a show. So we were obsessed with it. So we decided you know, we would love to go on this book tour with him because he was going to go in this book tour around Ireland discussed that. And so I said, you know this. Is an amazing once in a lifetime kind of trip. We gotta do it. Well, I was in the fan club right Georgia's Georgia Martin's fan club. It's at the time it was called brotherhood without banners. I'm not sure what it's called now it's kinda too big for me to be involved. But anyway, so his wife Paris was in the was in the club and I knew her pretty well through the club. So I reached out to her, and I said, listen, there's this girl that I really would like to marry and I don't know when the opportunities going come up, and I've always every guy gets nervous about how you're going to ask. And that kind of thing, and I said, you know, I'm a reach for the stores kind of guy. And if I seen opportunity, I'm gonna jump on it. And in this case, I said, Paris is there any chance that George would be willing to help me with my proposal and she said, listen. I'll talk to George about it. I don't see any problem with it if he's okay with it. We'll do it. Okay. Let me geographically where are you? And where are they, they live in New Mexico? Okay. On both Paris, and George Libya, Mexico. Where are you at this point? I'm in Kentucky, okay? Yeah. And but we're in the same the same fan club. We might hate through the forums, which are the old school, laugh, the be or more. Exactly. And so, so we've talked a lot. And so she goes to George s George, would you be willing to do this? She sends me message back, says George says he'll do it you show up to Ireland. You're good. So we got a plane tickets. Ireland I went and bought a ring. We go to Ireland turns out, George has has scheduled a casting party for Ireland in Belfast. Right. We were planning on going on a book tour with him across Ireland. We were not planning on a cast party. We will not planning on being in an HBO show, long story short, I end up at the cast party four season. One after they had filmed episode one only hadn't finished the season yet they had just shot episode one and they were going to end up having to re shoot it. But we didn't know that at the time. Well, George gets up and makes them announcements about how this show might be successful. They don't know. You know it's been option. It's been green lit for at least one and maybe two seasons. And then he turns over the floor to me, and I get to ask her to marry me in front of every single actor that, you know, is this somewhere documented, like, was it on YouTube? It's under. G R, M Belfast moot in on YouTube, and you can see me her in front of. Ron down a he the guy from Titanic. Who's the captain that's Tannen? Yeah. He came over, and, and he basically took my wife aside and bought her during soul night, and toasted her all night. And then I went off with rob stark and me. Rob just hung out all night. And we just had the most incredible time, it's, it's still surreal to even talk about. But so I've been just just to plug that into I have been invested in this in a way that I can't even explain since two thousand three and two seed all brought home. I loved the show at the beginning. It was just so good. And then it took a twist towards the end. But that's maybe jumping ahead of the game in terms of what we're talking about. Right. So, so to me from what I from what I've heard, and I have not read the series of books as you have. But as a fan of game of thrones as a fan of science fiction fantasy of. Yeah. This is a big leap forward for fantasy people don't realize they did not option. They auctioned game. The very beginning saying, we think it's going to fail. Because we don't think there's a market for fantasy. Yeah. And they were also talking about the GI budget. They were just talking about how much money they would have to impose at it's on the end and I get it. But I was like, there's definitely an audience for this book skies. Yeah. You don't realize how much of an audience there is. Yeah. In and you know that what they what they did with. I remember watching the very first episode, and it was like you said, you're hooked from episode one that you on those wolf pups. That's right. Whether dire wolves. Right. And but you can see. When the books are done. Yeah. How the writing changes to cliff in new, you had a great analogy of, you know, I'm gonna ask you to kind of give that analogy again. Well, I think I can think of a lot of, but one that came off my head was, it's like when you, you like glass, there was this famous Washington Post reported glass who plagiarized, all these writings for, for years, and people thought of him is just the best writer. He's just the best writer in America. And then he they found out he was plagiarizing and then afterwards he was like guys it wasn't all plagiarism. Listen I could write a great arm. I'm really that talent that talented. And then he starts, he tries to write other articles and people reading it like what is this drivel? This is the worst stuff I've ever read. And that's exactly what it was like for me. It was like they fell off a cliff. It was just you had source material up until this point. And we know exactly when that point was because that's when it gets, that's it nonsense. Yeah. And. You see that you see that. So, so I went through, I think. I took a break from seasons. I finished season five or six and I took a break they had already done season seven, and then when I heard that they were wrapping up with season. Eight I was like, all right. I'm gonna go ahead and pick back up season. Seven I watched season seven, and then I finished I think it was last week binged the the season. Eight. Yeah. And I think I was texting you guys as I was. Yeah. How many episodes in I'm like, number one? I can't even see anything dark. They say YouTube. So somebody said five shades of sunglasses. It was like you're watching the five pairs of sunglasses on. Yeah, you must have to your turn your brightness up on the TV or try. Yeah. What didn't do anything? It could not help it. No. And that was, yeah. That disappoint is I can't no we're going for a night fight. But, you know, let's, let's help us out a little bit with something kind of a band of brothers affect thing in the dark there. I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not just confused irritated because I can't see it became an irritation. It became an air tation. And then, you know, just the incredible change. Let's just talk about Dinares tar Garin. Yeah. She goes from, you know, I think somebody, I could get behind so that, that a champion to a butchering tyrant. You know, I don't know that that's really far afield from where the books are headed if I'm being honest with you. Okay. She you know, they, they said it only in a hundred times in the TV show that when a coin is flipped. You know, everytime charleena's Boina corners flipped, and you don't it's going hedger tails heads being one of the best rulers ever tales being complete and total madman, and that has to do with a lot of their inbreeding because tarring Mary, one another. So I did not know that yet all target married there. Either sister, brother or cousin. And, and it's because keep the lineage pure, they have very distinct features. They purple eyes silver hair and they, you know that that's not really played up as much. But that's that's what they do. And no other family in west rose does that they come from Valeria. So they have a very different view of how this is supposed to go. And they're also they're not a ruling class, in Valeria when they left Leary, but they have dragons. So when they come over to west rose that easily conquer this place and they're like, you know, we were peons back and Valeria, but we're we're the ruling class now. Yeah. So we're going to you know, we're in America because we're the only ruling class. So you think that the that the story arc for her is, is possibly going to stay with. It may come to fruition just that same exact way. I think there's a lot of I think it's going to be more subtle in the books than it was clearly than it wasn't a TV show. But she's had some moments of descent into madness. First of all, you know, the Miri mas- dul is. Is the name of a she was in the TV show? I believe, well, where she where after called Rogo dies. She tells her, you're going to be barren you're never gonna have any more kids. Okay. And then there's also Pyatt pre who's this high priests who basically gives us some fortunes and is putting some, some source react, there that in the way she responds to you. Kinda see you kind of see, hints of what she may end up becoming and she clearly has the monster in there. It's just a matter if she can contain it. I think that, that's a lot of what the ours are trying to deal with their own inner demons, the entire time. And you know Ray goal is Reagan is, you know, that, that's part of his thing is he's, he's found Chee in his in his in his in being a target. He's the poet, king essentially to be. And then he dies now this is the one that gets dies by cow drug targeting. Yeah. He's Brigham second. He. Yeah. He, he gets killed by king, Robert, and that's that Robert's rebellion against his family. And Reagan was probably going to be one of the best kings of all time, and as we know now major spoiler alert. He's the father of John snow. And so that's, that's kind of where you get the he was the true king, he was supposed to be the true king, and his son is every bit. The true King, John is the pit ame- of who you'd want a ruler a person who doesn't wanna be a ruler. So catch me up quickly. Who Jamie Lancaster is the king slayer. What king did he kill who mad king? Heiress is the king. So that would be radars. Father other. Yes. So he was the king at the time when, when Robert's rebellion started so Roberts million started, because you get a piece of this in the show, is that brand Brandon stark, and his father went from winner fell who Brandon start being the older brother of Edward Ned went south because they had some grievances with the crown. And so they went south to go talk to the to mad ks about their grievances and instead of listening to the very reasonable grievances. He instead burn them alive in their armor, by hoisting them up, in, in one of those birdcage is kind of thing and literally burning them alive in it, and so they roasted well, actually, the father choked himself to death trying to get to his son who was roasting alive in the armor. It's one of the most tragic things you have read. But basically that starts Robert's rebellion. Because MAG heiress tells. John heiress. Aaron he tells John Aaron who is tutoring. Ed stark and Robert Baratheon time says give me those children. Give me them because they are children of, of rebel rebellion. Right. And so I want to kill them and John Aaron says, no chance zero chance that's going to happen. You're not going to exterminate to our most powerful families so that starts the John Aaron king, Robert breath, Ian and Edward start start Robert's rebellion. And it's an enormous war that lasts, you know, somewhere around seven to ten years, and, and that's where you see all these events from like the, like the battle to try. And when regards killed to you got to see, you know, the, the battle up at the tower joy, where John is born. You know. You know that all part of it, it's all part of Robert's rebellion. Okay so good history lesson there. Yeah. Yeah. So, so let me ask you this. Season. Eight favorite character throughout season. I'm sorry. See, but season one through season, eight who'd you say one of your favorite character builds are I, I don't know there's a lot that I like so it's really difficult to narrow it down. I think that in terms of accuracy, we talked about the hound earlier and grammar and show. I think the hound is one of those spot on characters ever ROY McCann the actor for that he kills it. He must have read the books. It's too accurate to not have read the book, Sander is so close torn giant Spain is another one that is really close to the character in the books that is exactly how is so I like both of those characters lot, I thought bear dairy and was kind of a wish he'd had better, you know, death and outgoing I love Eric dairy, and he's one of my favorite characters. He's the one that saves aria in the win about a winner fell, he gets stabbed much time and get up down. You know, there's a lot of characters in there that I like that, probably aren't mostly my favorite characters are not main characters. Yeah. Supporting characters. Yes. Yeah. I would say that my Tyrian. Oh man. Yeah. Not and killed it. I think he got a couple of Emmys. He deserves them. Yeah. George said when he wrote the books, he was thinking Peter in that role and then Peter damage later played the role, which is just amazing dream come true for him. And then he played it just to a point to a degree that you just. Yeah. User of the you deserve every EMMY they ever made. It's just so good. It's so perfect to the character. And you feel for me empathize it for him and Georgia Martin has always said, I wrote, I wrote teary Lancaster as me he is George Martin personified into character in the way he wants to see him so. Okay. And so, you know, there's a little bit of sarcasm, but a wit a lot of drinking cetera et cetera. I think that's kind of how George sees himself. He's that's kind of like the early late. Twenties early thirties version of Georgia Martin, I heard that there is a petition going around to have them re-shoot season eight if ever there was a time to do it. This might be it. I when I hear that I'm just thinking millions of dollars hundred million dollars on this last days and maybe three hundred for the last three they won't do it, okay chance. No chan-. No, there's no chance of that. But if there was going to be a show to reshoot it is clearly, this one, and I wish they would wait until George, you think about the money if George finished all the books, and then they went back and I wouldn't even care if they got a new cast, just reshoot from season five on. Right. Or I mean, well, I guess five six seven eight but, but to that, even if they did that, that would just discredit the producers, I think of, of saying you guys, you know, you blew it. It's almost like asking George Lucas. Hey, can we have Jj Abrams go back and do one two and three? Good. He he absolutely should to certain degree. I don't care how. Credited? They get gave up on the show to go direct stalwarts as far as I can tell. Well, that kind of worries me. I mean I don't know if. I like let me say this. I like Dan Weiss a lot. He wrote the original manuscript for halo, which was supposed to be made into the movie, and then got cancelled. And everybody says that, that manuscript was really good. You know the way I'm a fan of Spartan one one seven and it would have been an incredible journey. I think with him on it. David binney off, as I've told you I think, before, is the guy that brought us x men, origins wolverine. Yeah. He's the guy who brought us that version of deadpool. The man has no, like no credibility with me whatsoever. I read his only written book, which is called like city of thieves or something like that. It's terrible. It's just terrible. So you got to wonder how does a guy like that get the rains, I don't know something this epic in this, this lard, I don't know. I think they just went in pitched it. I think they said, we can write this. We're, we're Hollywood writers, and we can pitch, also Amanda Peet is, is they've been off wife, okay? She's easily more popular than him and more famous than sure. So me she may have had some influence on that. I'm surprised. They didn't put her in the show. Yeah. Now that you didn't even know that sickly had her as on standby. She's one of the best actresses I know of and she didn't get a role. So get it. So if I if I compare this again, I'm going back to an epic book series Tolkien, okay? Made into film, Peter Jackson, right? This is this is an individual infinitely respect to the similar to you. George R Martin's history in these books who who live? Literally new them inside. Now going back to the Soma really and understanding history of the, of the deep dive, and this is a guy who, who would say, I can take this and you can trust me with it. Yeah. Right. So I love it down appropriately. He got rid of I mean I was discouraged. I've said brought this up so many times now. But he got rid of Tom ado. I love Tom Bomba dill. He's a very, very minor character. But I think it important one in terms of the progression of the hobbits, and in terms of them accepting the role in what they're supposed to do. And, you know, cuts had to be made sat big vices had two more aid, and he made in my opinion all the appropriate ones. Yeah. He'd no, no. He he translated those books to film beautifully, and anyone an Oscar for best picture, return to the king. Yeah. Deserved it, it was amazing. So, so here's my question, which which kind of circles this common around. Were the two producers of game of thrones as vested in the books and the history as Jackson was to token or you to George Martin are these two individuals said, look, you can trust us with these, we not to do it or did they mess up because they thought they could continue on with the writing after they ran out of books. I. Have reluctant to say this a little bit. But I, I don't think so. I think that they I think they all Goldman when they when they had it they realized they had a gold mine. I don't I don't know that they've been off even read the books. I really don't. I assume he has just because he has to has probably, but I don't know how much attention he really paid. I think he kinda just skim read. I believe in wise, probably read the entire thing and probably got into some theories, and they got into some hashing out some fan theories. I mean they had to give George George Martin infant infamously said that he gave them the job when he he had him explain who is John's parents at a dinner table meeting with them, and they explained it. They got it. But then again, they could have gotten on any message board forum, right? Only internet and discovered that in twenty minutes that that's too easy of the question is, it's just too easy. Like tell me who your favorite minor character is and explain why. And give me a house that nobody knows about. And what's important, and that's the question that would have been. Right. I would ask the appropriate to say are you, are you trustworthy to take these books as the sewer Kranich men and translate it? That's right. That's just work tough questions like that. As far as I can tell. And so, I just think they realized that they had a gold mine, and then, you know, and that was it. They just said, oh, my gosh. People don't realize what this is and we've got a jump on it right now. What if we get George on the phone, and we say, hey, will make this and we option HBO. It was in the same class of shows up at the same time as Tra may and boardwalk empire and all three of those shows got, Greenland at the same time trae got made first and then boardwalk empire got made second then game of thrones afterwards. And you know. They think they thought HBO is out of content with the end of sopranos and the end of dead wood, and the end of all these other band of brothers and all that it's time for new era in television. Right. We have a golden, it's kinda like me jumping on the opportunity to have him engage to age -ment. They saw an opportunity, and they jumped on it as lightning bottle is what kind of commitment. It really was, and these fans are rabid take. It's. There's no pleasing them to a certain degree. And I think that, that war on them really quickly is that they were just tired of the criticism and tired of being second guessed all the time and, you know, people getting mad about I don't remember who the kid is the hunter, maybe you can help me out with this. The, the red haired who plays guitar acoustic? He was in episodes. I know you're. Yeah. I knew exactly Utah cheer cheer. Yeah. A lot of people, including me were really upset about that because it's not in the books that scene is not the books it was a useless cameo for you want to humanize, the Lancasters. They're not supposed to be humanized. You know, like we didn't need it, and it was just a superfluous cameo that seemed to be just about getting edgier in on the set just to drive a popularity. And we're just like, we, we don't need that, right? We are fans of this show, because it's good, not because you have Ed Sheeran. So I have to just quickly parallel that too. When I first heard that Samuel Jackson was going to be in Star Wars. Oh, yeah. I remember as Mace Windu, and I, I remember and I went and saw it, and I thought I'm not seeing, I'm seeing Sammy L Jackson. Yeah. You know and. And why did they do that? So I'm not trying to sidetrack this conversation. But you gotta wonder if it's well, we have a built in audience for this character. It might spike ratings, it might get more ticket sales into as a mentally popular even before they I mean, you had to have right high class actor to fill that role because we all know he was, you know, Jedi master. He's one of two Riley Jedi masters echelon is called. I think they didn't him. I don't know what they're called. I don't I don't know. I, I think just jet I master. I thought they quite is actually jet. I master to, and there's like the council of masters, you know, with like anyway, thank you. Right. Moving on. I think they have a special designation. Yeah. I don't remember the name of. But I I like that. They took a chance with John Boyega. And they, you know, it's like if you wanna fill a, a character, you know, let's, let's bring bring something new in and like daisy, readily asked them. Yeah. Like Jon snow did the kid Harrington John snow. Yeah. He was a stage actor before this. He was in a war horse, which is a or into some Broadway. Elbert with this new. Okay. Okay. But that was all he had done to that point was it. Alfie Allen had been a nothing. The guy that played played Robb stark Richard Madden had been voted Scotland's, best dressed, man, and had been in a couple of soap operas. I believe none of these people were famous and that's what's beautiful. About it. We have no context for any of them. Well, you know, the only one I was famous and Peter English, but, I mean, that was Sean bean. That's those are the two that brought the star, but so it's very important care with a lot of depth. And you have to have a -ccomplish actor who can play green immediate. Yeah. I agree with you hundred percent. But I think this is Hollywood. It's how they it's how they build it. It's who knows what happens behind the curtain for shows like these, but to see season eight wrap up. I think the consensus there's a lot of disappointment. I think there's a lot of avenues that they could have taken. And then we were talking earlier, that even Georgia are Martin said that he would have liked to seen seasons. Nine ten eleven possibly twelve. Is that right? Yeah. He said he said, we could have gone episodes, or seasons twelve and thirteen twelve hundred David Dan, about why we didn't do that through them on the bus ended view. And I think he's angry about it. He's just sitting here saying, look what you've done to my property when I hear. Has passed on so many people ask to be involved in this project, and he trusted them with this material? He said, I'm giving you what basically the sum, total of my life, and it is in your hands with, as you will. And they said, you know, we're really too busy to give you more seasons. I if I were George throw them under the bus, and then stomp on them does does. Huge spoiler alert coming right now, does Dinares die by John's hand in the book. Well, it's not written yet. Okay. We know we don't know if she's still she hasn't met, John yet in the books, hunters, looking at me, like I have no idea what you're talking about. But that's all right. Yeah. So disappointing hunter you see the scene another another piece. That's missing. There is a child known as a on egg on target area, who is not John snow. There is a another supposed- targe Aryan, who is alive, who is on the boat. You know, kind of getting into the weeds, here, you need to kind of go read some of this on the on the internet. But in the books, he comes he comes back to west rose as well. And he's, he's in west roasts with a guy named John Coniston another guy who's not in the in the show, and that's all going on right now in the books, and it's just very fascinating because there's so many more players in the game of thrones in the in the in the in the books that are in the show and those players matter in storyline. Right. A lot. Right. We were talking about Victorian. Great joy guy is missing cetera et cetera et cetera. There could just keep going on the list. But I, I would I've said is that this season was just done complete injustice in every in every since it's militarily nonsense acting is just not great. They should've shot some of those scenes over again the darkness we dragons getting shot at a mid air from thousand yards away when they can't see the boat. But the boats can apparently see them. Yeah, it's just. One ridiculous thing after another and. I, I said this earlier in, in Cambridge show and say here this is going to go down in history as possibly the worst the worst television ending in the history ever, even beat seinfeld's ending. I, I mean, I don't think there's even anything that compares to. I think I think you are you are right on almost every single account of what you what we've talked about. I wish I had read, I'm thinking, I'm gonna go back and re and we reach everybody read the books. Yeah, because it's so much richer, so much more, beautiful less nudity. And, and the richness of these characters comes alive. More. And what's in your magic potion, they can never take away right? Just because they wrote some nonsense ending. What's in my head and what's happening in my world is so much more vibrant and beautiful than anything they could have written or half written. So we'll pick this back up gear after I finished the series. So also, I'll start it and yeah lease. And that way, we can have some more discussion game of thrones. Louis. So guys, we're going to wrap up this episode on the review game of thrones. Thanks to Garrett, thanks to hunter. And we'll see you next time.

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