20 Episode results for "Mike Konczal"

2314 - The Next Bite at the Stimulus Apple & Pandemic Voting in Wisconsin w/ Mike Konczal & John Nichols

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

1:21:18 hr | 1 year ago

2314 - The Next Bite at the Stimulus Apple & Pandemic Voting in Wisconsin w/ Mike Konczal & John Nichols

"You are listening to a Free Berge of majority report with Sam Cedar to support this show and get another fifty minutes daily program. Goodridge already dot. Fm please draw it. Is Tuesday April. Seven two thousand twenty. My name is Sam seater this the Five Time Award winning majority report? We are broadcasting live steps and steps and steps from the industrial ravage Ghana's canal in the heartland of America Downtown Brooklyn USA on the program today. My Concept Director Progressive Thought at the Roosevelt Institute on what should be in phase for and whether we can get it then we will talk to. John Nichols The Nation magazine from Wisconsin. The epicenter of an election travesty. Meanwhile phase three of the stimulus is in shambles. Right now for anyone who is not a massive corporation knives out in the White House. Is someone leaks a Navarro January memo warning of a pandemic but nobody knew and surprise surprise. Donald Trump has a vested interest in the hydro oxy chloroquine companies and Republican. Senator David Purdue is the latest to be revealed as profiting off of the Secret Corona Virus Intel briefing. Tyson closes a pork processing. Factory in grocery workers are infected. How will we provide goods and services going forward? Johnson is in the ICU. Foreign Minister has been deputized. An early data showed that African Americans are contracting and dying of Corona virus at an incredibly elevated rate. Lastly scotus expands lease stopping powers. If you're driving all this and more on today's Program Welcome Ladies and gentlemen we We had some issues The other day in regarding are or are streaming. We hopefully are in better shape today Bear with us. 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You locked out financial reasons now. Let's go into this. You know I've been talking about I guess we started this conversation with Hayes on Friday when he was on and it was based upon a White House. Presser where the admiral who has been appointed in charge of the supply chain sourcing and distributing personal protection equipment other needed supplies to deal with this with the health crisis. Basically revealed that what the federal government was doing was expanding tax dollars sourcing material in places like China around the world flying it back to America and then instead of distribute to hospitals or states for them to distribute toss bottles or municipalities for them to distribute it to hospitals. They essentially either gave it or sold at a cost to a half a dozen medical supply distribution companies. That yes have maybe the apparatus to get it to the hospitals. Although you could have just brought these to the WHO've been working on this in New York state as you know all. The hospitals now have been basically put under one administrative umbrella. The State is now coordinating supply. Lines where staff goes. It's as if it's one big state run hospital system in New York now because that's the most efficient way to do it. And I suppose you could make an argument that these medical distributors. They already have these relationships now how to get out the door. But they weren't selling it at a fair market value. They weren't capped on what they could charge for this. They basically started an auction process. Which not only meant that you had states. That didn't have the resources we're getting outbid but sometimes all the states are getting outbid and it was going back overseas. This is the type of stuff honestly that when this is over and I don't mean to entirely over but when the narrow crisis that we're facing right now the surge is over this type of stuff that I want to see people in court I want to see people I want to see hearings and I want to see people in court criminal court. Here is Jay Pritzker. He's the governor of Illinois confirming all of this from the I guess the buyer perspective of a state clip number three because what the White House has done is created. You know they call this the airbridge where they're bringing stuff back from China to the United States and then they're delivering to private companies in the United States not to the states and they're letting all of us bid against each other for those goods that are owned by the private company. So we've just gone around all that go directly to manufacturers wherever we could. This is appalling. This is appalling. We talked to Mike Konczal. He'll have more to say about sort of like how our system of our government and basically where we're starting you know does not allow for providing relief in dealing with the oncoming economic catastrophe. We could be looking at but this is an ideological problem this is. This is an ideological problem. There was absolutely no need for this. In fact we played a clip of The General Honore Guy who was in charge of this during Katrina and he said he's never heard of anything like this. We've never done it this way. It's absurd and it really is criminal because just that process itself delayed everything. There's no reason my understanding is that when the The Patriots sent their plane over to China. To buy a bunch of n ninety five masks to bring it back from Massachusetts it was confiscated by the federal government and then presumably given to a private enterprise to then auction it off. This is just nuts. It's nuts it's enraging and We need to. We need to see more frankly from the opposition party in dealing with this. It's completely nuts. We will talk more about this as the program goes on. Hopefully I won't lose. It should remind you that the Report is made impossible Impart impossible part by skill. Share the first five hundred people who go to S. K. L. Dot S. H. Slash majority reports seven are going to get a free premium membership to skill share for two entire months skill. Share as you know is an online learning community offers thousands of classes on almost any topic you imagine. All classes are taught by experts in their field. They have classes on drawing painting for Tog RAPHY VIDEO. Editing web design running a small business a whole lot more. I don't know why have trouble staying dry. I think that's a Massachusetts thing anyways. Almost all the classes are less than an hour long. 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I've been reading a lot of your pieces Mike and Welcome back to the program. Thanks for me back in March you at the Roosevelt Institute came out with a report of a forward thinking policy response to the corona virus recession. And you were writing in a in another piece that you wrote I guess now two weeks ago that the pace in which the problem that we are facing economically was moving so quickly that your your imagination on some level had trouble keeping up with it and and just give me a sense of like where we are now in the way that you view What's what's what's going to happen. I mean some little I feel like I remember once playing Frisbee and I I was running as a kid and I was running backwards and banged into a tree and I was in such a state of shock that I froze there before I crumpled on the ground and I feel like. We're in that that moment where we like banged into the tree. And we're just sort of stunned and were about to crumble is is that I mean. Is that your sense in terms of the economics of this. Yeah I think in the same way Everyone you know on March tenth. Maybe didn't quite understand how life changing The Kovic crisis would be the same. Exact thing was true of economists who are not epidemiologists. And who do not have a good sense of how severe this would get so you. I wrote about in in March ten. You know maybe talk about a five hundred billion dollar stimulus. A trillion dollar. Stimulus seemed very exaggerated a week later. March seventeen You know maybe talking about a one. Trillion dollar stimulus was the normal and then a week and a half ago are we passed a two trillion dollar a little over two trillion dollar stimulus. And it's very likely they'll be Another expansion done very quickly. So the scope of what's changing is is expanding quite rapidly as well as the worry that we are facing a plan. Depression happening right now. And a lot of uncertainty about how quickly and will recover What what are the sort of the when you sit down to contemplate and the stimulus package. Let's say phase three for instance. What are the principles that you're operating on like what are the? What is the I guess you know I. I understand that we're in triage right as opposed to sort of long-term But but what are the operative principles for triage in this situation? Right so I think the metaphor a lot of people use anything. It's useful is freezing the economy. Which is we understand that Large parts of the economy but not all parts Need to stop off for the next. You know as a month ago the next two to three months and we're not quite sure nobody over But we need to freeze the economy. Which meant keeping people whole making sure people could pay their rent or making sure that they weren't Overwhelmed by current bills as well as keeping our economic relationships in place so businesses that might collapse as most businesses only have about a week or two of liquid funds businesses that might collapse of customers for two months finding ways to get them the resources they need to ensure that there will still be there on the other side. 'cause I think the big worry the thing that would turn this into a very weird kind of temporary recession versus full blown. Depression is that if all these businesses and all these economic relationships and all these employment contracts suddenly just disappear into nothingness. You can't just reconstruct that on the fly. So that's why there's been a huge set of understanding about why we need to interject forcibly into getting everyday people money getting unemployed people. You I- unemployment insurance so that they can go on furlough and getting small and medium-sized businesses. Financial backstop so that they can keep their businesses alive during this recovery. Or during this Um Quarantine I it seems to me and and I and I want to get your assessment on this that the challenge to the United States on this in this regard is far greater than almost any any industrialized nation. Because we don't have an apparatus to provide support to people. I mean I think that's that's basically means you're writing about that. I guess I in in this piece about our system is hostile to real reform. But even we don't have the automatic stabilisers. We don't have like you know it's we don't have the cups nevermind y you know The question as to whether we fill them up. We don't have the cups. Essentially that are already built like they are in most countries absolutely and you compound that with the fact that we are a very large country And we are also a federalist country. Which is that a lot of economic decision making takes place at the city or state level. It's been a real disaster. So if you look at countries that were successful and freezing their economies you have a place like Denmark which has very strong labor unions and in a very real sense labor capital and the in the government. The State can sit down and negotiate. How they're going freeze the economy. How much payrolls might go down. How much pay cuts may have happened? How much the federal government will pay and so on and how much the corporations will pay. There's no mechanism here particularly in the private sector You know. Labor has been decimated since nineteen eighties. So it's not like you can sit down labor unions and dictate how we're GonNa make sure that everyone doesn't have to work for three months and then how we pick it back up On purpose and not just in red states unemployment insurance has not been expanded if anything it's contracted quite a bit in the last decade or two And so putting millions more people in a short notice like within weeks on Unemployment. There's just not the infrastructure to do it and in addition So many of our jobs have become precariously non employment contracts on so they were like you know contractors you work for a App that where your contract with the APP? Though in a real way your employees the APP you don't get unemployment insurance So you know getting people employment insurance even though we allocated hundreds of billions of dollars to quickly get out the door you know. There's a real trope point and how atrophied are public systems have become under last several decades the same thing with small businesses we essentially are paying banks to give money to businesses. We can give money to businesses these small businesses. It's not rocket science but The only interface we have to do it rapidly as through the private banking system and we essentially to give them a lot of money to do it so and so really messed up system for doing quick change. That's effective in helping people and you know a lot of people are going to struggle to get the and they should apply and I'm not trying to discourage anyone at all to from doing it. It's going to be much of a struggle. Then if we were a country that could be seeing seriously. I and and I just WANNA go into a little bit more detail and those Those two categories. And then we'll talk about the third sort of tranche if you will of. I guess there's more than three but in terms of the private sector In terms of the unemployment I know that I mean I've been reading some pieces out of Florida that Rick Scott Basically Gerege the system as a way of driving down unemployment numbers right just numbers not actually unemployed people but numbers And that has left the whole system in shambles. What we just give us a sense of what that actually means in practice. It means fat in normal recessions where the unemployment that we are having would normally take six months to essentially come online or become fully unemployed so the great recession which was pretty traumatic. And your everyone listening probably remembers Are you know earliest? Understood that You know employment went to ten percent but that took actually about six months here. We had on a ten percent appointment in probably about two weeks. We'll know more with time but probably within about two weeks So these systems which are designed not to to discourage people from using that. You're going to read a lot about how like there's funny programming languages or things are really dusty or haven't been updated in years but the real thing is not really technological political people. Do not want these systems to work because they don't WanNa pay people They don't want to expand the usage of it They'd rather put the money to other things Especially in red states things like corporate tax cuts or large scale prisons and as such. It's just hard for people to get them. They're going to have to work a lot harder. Which means people might get discouraged from doing it Which means they won't have the money to stay On unemployment insurance which means that they'll be less spending in the economy and will have a real knock on effect that harms US later. So I mean it. Basically just comes down to You know a more sophisticated version of like you gotta fill this out in in in in in triplicate. And you got to file a one with you know I in this office and then one in that office. And then you've gotta get stamps on those and the return them and then send a self addressed envelope but the flat. The stamp needs to be You Know Way. bicentennial Stamp and you can find those on. I mean it's that type of thing right. It's just like putting up. All these roadblocks to making it harder to actually execute in hoping that people just give up in frustration. Yeah and so. There's there's obviously the roadblocks that were put in place same way there's voting restrictions that have been implemented over the last decade or two that we're now going to see hit Kobe crisis. It's the same thing with basic economic security we've made so it's legal easier for employers to deny workers their employment rights like unemployment insurance. The states themselves have discouraged these programs from staying updated or even after dismantling them and we have a real crisis where people need them. And it's going to really harm people and even when there's not necessarily well even other things Even when we have mentioned as sending checks everyday people You know every adult unless once every more or less get say a twelve hundred dollar check. Every child has six hundred dollar check. there's Really harsh restrictions if you're not a citizen and if you make over one hundred thousand dollars and starts to get clawed back But make sure to be aware of that but the problem is there's not an actual list of everyone's name and address and checking accounts. You actually just send. People checks quickly The most approximate thing we used to have for this which was a families with dependent. Children was eliminated during welfare reform by Bill. Clinton and Republicans the nineteen nineties So the obvious mechanism. We have for just getting poorer families with children. Checks doesn't exist anymore now. Everyone's running around trying to figure out how to do this through the tax code. There's a Lotta people who don't file Who Won't be aware of this You know these checks may take months to get to some people when we really need them. They're this week and make rent was two on the first physically just been weakened in such a way that makes it really hard also physically. They can't even print more than twenty million a week and on the back of an ambulance. I'm not great math but That sounds to me like less than ten percent of the people in the country who are do a check essentially and If they can only do ten percent per week I mean people can figure it out. It takes ten weeks to get everybody a check All right so let's also talk about this the SBA The loan's those loans seemed like a good idea. The problem like you say is. There's no apparatus to deliver this and as far as I can tell The all the banks who were supposed to administer this they weren't ready to do that. They didn't know how to do it. And we're basically paying them to service it which I guess I mean. There's no other apparatus to do this. But let's let's move to the third tranche. Which is that four hundred five hundred billion dollars that goes to corporate America that Essentially is being leveraged by the Fed to make the the bailout for corporations closer to four trillion dollars. And that I mean it seems to have like no problem. We've already built those pipes that we can get the money to them immediately and it sort of feels like in. This seems to be the criticism of the stimulus to the extent that I can I can. I can figure it out. Is that like you say. We're under a freeze. And how do we freeze the economy? And I guess I was using the metaphor of we're all under yellow flag except for those people who are In entities that are going to get the money through the Fed through that corporate bailout. They're allowed to go at full speed around the race track whereas the rest of us were just in a yellow wearing a yellow flag situation. And this is going to increase Wealth disparity income disparity and create more concentrated power by corporations. Yeah I think that's all right You know there's there's two elements to it. One is a fifty billion dollar straight up bailout fund which is Airlines Boeing national security companies which in our corporate warfare state could be literally any corporation but There's fifty billion dollars which is going to have people trying to observe it and I you know. Many of them are quite talented. And and I wish but that is money that is is basically off to corporate America and the strictest way of avoiding bankruptcy court There's four fifty four hundred fifty billion dollars. You'll will be elaborate out by the Federal Reserve. Which we'll do a couple of different things most notably. It will make loans to large corporations as a credit markets frees up The Fed is really the only entity competently tasked administratively at especially at the federal level. To do this kind of work of quickly reacting to macroeconomic crises But it is not set up to say send people checks. You could easily imagine that the everyone could have a checking account at the Federal Reserve are a little credit card that You know their their account at the Federal Reserve. There's maybe run through postal banks and the could press a button and give everyone twelve hundred dollars within seconds That is not what we have as you said it's going to take you know Ten weeks hopefully end. Everyone checked you. Can they can find so. The disparity of their of these two different kinds of reactions is really stark and really shoddy speaks to how quickly we can help large corporations and how limited in week our responses to smaller everyday people in smaller businesses. Okay so and then you know We're seeing the I guess from. I L let's do it this way. Grade that stimulus based upon concept. And then you know execution. I think we can give another grade. But but in terms. Of like conceiving of it where would you put that stimulus? Well how would you grade that? The phase three says he minus e Here here's the problem is that there's maybe a glass half foyer understand. Is that instead finding the solution and adequately levering to it if they bunch of small stopgap measures that May Hopefully add up to do something so instead of giving everyone an actual basic income. You get a check. One check doesn't really doesn't renew even though that's insane because if there's a Democratic president next year and a Republican Senate they will absolutely not renew it. Even if unemployment is ten or fifteen or twenty percent on instead of and this goes to the Small businesses and medium size business loan issue at the banks instead of actually sitting down saying we are going to backstop payrolls It's GONNA cost us much money. But we think it's worth it to keep our small and medium-sized business. Ecosystem impact instead. They've kind of created this loan program which might turn into a grant And then halfway through writing legislation. They're like but maybe it's actually going to help preserve payroll so it's a little more generous And then they pass it and now it's clear it's the mechanism by which we're going to try to backstop it and now they are rapidly scrambling to fix the program. After the fact is I'm just straight up coming out in front saying we have. This kind of crisis requires this kind of response from our government. There's just no leadership to say those kinds of things. No one willing to make those kinds of demands so instead you get a lot of like third measures which maybe if they all add up well can sort of constitute a solution but it's not a real solution execute it well and the execution similarly Poorly graded so What do you think the? GimMe Your assessment of how the Democrats played this. Because I mean I I. I think it's quite clear to that. You know phase four. There's two there's two separate things that are going on here. One is one is like you know what are we gonNA do for in terms of an economic response but then there's also sort of like what are we going to do in terms of while there seems to be to other areas for me where there's there's other there's other things that should be included in this and that maybe Democrats can leverage this which is one. How do we deal with goods and services like like you know I? I don't know if this is going to be a big deal but Tyson's you know one Pork processing plant close. I mean I'm not a fan of of Tyson's or pork processing plants but I imagine we could also have a problem with With produce like you know people are GonNa get sick. We're starting to see people get sick at grocery At supermarkets you know. Maybe there'll be people who will run to come and work at those supermarkets. And maybe they won't maybe they'll be people who come to pick in the fields. Maybe they want but we could have like a goods and services issue and then we also have a civil sort of a citizenry issue like in terms of voting and other functions Where Democrats could could could may be levered stuff and put stuff like that in like. If you want these things you gotta give these things. But what do you what. What's your sense of of what Democrats should push for a phase four specifically economic? But then maybe you can talk about those other issues if you have some ideas. Sure so I'm not a hill reporter so I don't know the insides of who made what political decisions and who should get credit or blame but I will know two things one is that like Mitch McConnell's eight top operator. And trump is very chaotic. Figure the set the Democrats in the Senate fought for higher unemployment insurance. They fought for a bunch of other things. And you know We can judge how much they got or what they got. What stands out to me. Is the house. Even though it was probably clear that we're going to vote. And whatever the Senate where they will pass did not provide a good alternative mechanism that was a clear messaging response And s such leaves us very adrift on what happens next You Know Speaker Pelosi or in all the other. Democrats they're like there's no point to the house. Bill is having you know The public option or the Medicare for all the green new deal. Where like those? Maybe not appropriate here. But there's no. Oh that's the thing that the damn shits fight for the dams are for right. They're not they're not they're not they're not offering any type of alternative to which to judge whether this was Effective or not exactly the leadership in the house got into a big fight about whether or not the checks should be universal And then they quickly scrambled after they passed one thing and like kind of had a laundry list bill. Which had a lot of priorities in? It wasn't an actual messaging. Biller not even just like messing the cheap way but like an actual like here is what the alternative is so now as we go in and the government runs really slowly and this crisis is bobbing very fast but the phase. Three things are in some ways no brainers in a recession. You increase unemployment insurance. You backstop the states. You get money to people you try to keep employment going This crisis is so crazy that it's hard to do that fast. In that the scale we're talking about but like the next step things that are the things like okay. How do we protect essential workers who are facing incredibly precarious Working situations with no legal protections are unions. Like is that a do we do it. Unionization bill do we do some sort of You know some sort of new social security. I don't even know 'cause it hasn't been articulated. I mean I've ideas but we know there's no thing. Democrats put forward same thing with healthcare. Millions OF PEOPLE ARE GONNA lose their healthcare. We just had this huge fight about how like people like their healthcare because they get to keep it from your employer keeps track your Medicaid like victims have not message this input for an alternative and so the election. What's going to happen with the election? What is the actual thing? Democrats want as a safeguard for the election. You Know Individual Senators like Senator Warren Senator. Sanders are putting forward messages. But it's not like the leadership is doing provides. The alternative can What would you put in Phase for what would be your top two or three priorities. I'm not a healthcare expert. So but something needs to be done about healthcare that can start transitioning. Us top Medicaid for Medicare for what? However it's going to go now we need like the smart thinking about how to start the transition Because they think it's just the fact that he did they healthcare crisis in addition tweet. Mass crisis is going to make it doubly worse than say the Great Recession I would like to see a lot more funding to states. We know that austerity in the states. One really harms the recovery as it did in two thousand nine hundred ten and also the Australian walks itself in so services and schools that are cut or or dismembered. Don't come back in the recovery. So aid to stay thing is really important And I think the big thing is getting stuff to automatically renew which they no brainer to me. But you know this is not going away. And you know if the DEM's win the presence in November like Mitch McConnell if they still control the Senate are not going to negotiate with them If unemployment is ten percent next year as they did not in twenty eleven. We remember this. This is living memory of the people who run the government run the Democratic Party. That was nine. That was nine years here. That was nine years ago. Nobody remembers that There's no one rick possible and I just want to what you just. You're suggesting so that people understand this. You could fashion the bill in such a way where it is. We're going to benchmark if unemployment is at this level then this amount of unemployment insurance must be Flooded into the system if it is at another level a higher or lower level commensurate amount. Make all of this automatic. So you don't have to go back to Mitch McConnell every time and say please. People are suffering and he goes. I don't care you're a Democratic president. Our job is to get you out of office. We're willing to let People suffer if if we think it's going to help our fortunes in the midterms in and and so that's basically what we're looking at right as system where there are benchmarks that automatically And these what we. We mean by automatic stabilisers where he kicks in based upon the feedback. It's getting from the economy absolutely and the automatic -ness of it is both makes it more effective but also takes off these political ransom moments. That are really stabilizing our ability to answer these problems and a lot of thinking had been going into this last couple of years and the fact that none of it was taken up here. I think it was really disappointing. It may have been a very hard ask I you know. I was not involved in the negotiations at all but The fact that it's not even really broached and crucially the fact that the house is not flagging. This is the alternative Makes me think that they're going to be out maneuvered. I I the the idea that like. We had such a recent example of this on some level and it does feel like who can remember all that stuff that happened. I mean it really. Is it shocking? Mike? I really appreciate you coming and talking to us about this people can check out More of your work at The Roosevelt Institute and What I what? What is your is your twitter. Still Rory bomb. It's still wordy bomb are are too. I B O M B and. Yeah you can check me out on twitter too. That's where L. ING saw my. That's where I see it all Mike thanks so much time today. Really appreciate our folks We're going to do a little bit different because we've got two basic. You know another facet of what we were talking about. In terms of phase four is going to be voting and we're seeing a perfect example of the crap show I it is unimaginable. What is taking place over the past? I guess tied on I know how many hours seventy two hours The long and short of it is that the governor of Wisconsin was a little bit late and a little bit timid in pressing the Republican legislature in Wisconsin. Out there a couple of things you have to remember. The Democrats got over fifty percent of the votes in the last election in Wisconsin for state representatives fifty percent of though it's across the board fifty. I think it's fifty two or fifty four fifty one because of Gerrymandering Republicans won sixty four percent of the seats that make up the state legislature when there is an attempt to push back and say hey this is not the way that democracy works. If you get more than fifty percent of the votes you should have at least close to fifty percent of the elected representatives. We're GONNA take this to the State Supreme Court. The state's Supreme Court is dominated by conservatives. And they say the Gerrymanders fine so it was fifty. Four percent of voters chose a Democratic candidate for the State Assembly Republicans. Have they now have sixty three of the state's ninety nine assembly seats? That's messed up. Keep Gerrymander in. They pass laws like they did on Friday of last week. Saying we're not going to postpone the primary because there is a Reelection of or I should say a new election for a new State Supreme Court justice and they had seen that absentee ballots came in coming in from Waukesha County. Where outpacing Milwaukee County significantly. So they said we've got the votes. You GotTa have the vote on Friday. I mean on Tuesday of this week and we're going to appeal the decision. That said that you could extend the absentee ballots to the thirteenth. Because people didn't know that they needed to get them because they didn't realize it was going to be so difficult to vote because of Corona virus the US Supreme Court just basically said No. They've gotta be in by today. And if they're not vote doesn't count. Meanwhile there are five five polling places in Milwaukee when usually there are I think like five hundred we can ask. Maybe they're seventy. I don't know I can tell you. It's a fraction. We'll ask John Nichols who's on the ground in Wisconsin. In just a moment. We're GONNA take a quick break. We'll be right back after this Can't we are back? Sam Cedar on the majority report on the phone. It is a pleasure to welcome back to the program. The National Affairs correspondent for the Nation magazine and the host of the podcast next left For The Nation magazine John Nichols John. Welcome back to the program can honor to be with you. My friend You've got a new cover story for the Nation magazine called How To win in Wisconsin? That is obviously about the general election But there's also There's an election today. One of those things being it's obviously a Democratic primary but it's also an election for the State Supreme Court Back up and walk US through. How in the world? There is a primary election today in Wisconsin when we have seen the data as to how Michigan having their primary may have increased the infection rate of corona virus. I mean what we've seen in the past like forty eight hours has been every single problem with with the courts their involvement in our election process. That wanted imagine it seems you are correct. My friend Wisconsin my home state. home stay for six generations Historically had two things that were really great about it terrific elections and frankly really strong commitment to public health It was a state that In the influenza epidemic of Nineteen Eighteen Did dramatically better than the rest of the country. Because it's about the only place that actually locked down And so with gossip has all these great traditions unfortunately They have intersected with the horrible politics of our times so On This Day April Seventh. Wisconsin had scheduled election a lot of people. Nationally are focusing on the presidential primary Democratic primary especially And also to some extent on the State Supreme Court race. It's important to understand that this is also a day when Literally hundreds of local offices that Until County Board Mayors village presidents are elected including the mayor of. Milwaukee is up for election the county executive of Milwaukee County our largest city largest county. So it's actually a very big election day and the interesting thing is that there's a lot at stake for conservatives and progressives it's very typical in this deeply divided state but here's where things really Came apart every state that Had An election scheduled in this period. You know as as endemic has risen to A level that that it's the focus of everything going on in the country as well as economic downturn every state that in this period right now Had a primary has moved it. They have generally moved it too early. June In Wisconsin because we have divided government a democratic governor and a Republican legislature Was much more difficult to do that. The governor tried to work with the legislature repeatedly. He called them into special session. He did negotiate everything to try to delay this election to postpone it The Republicans refused so finally yesterday afternoon. Governor Tony Iverson announced in the early afternoon that he was postponing in person voting because the cow people had said he should do it civil rights and voting rights groups. That said he should do it. the of all of our major cities said he should do it. I mean it was just there was overwhelming. Call to postpone Great Away what? He said was absentee. Ballots have already been cast will be counted. People can continue casting absentee ballots into June and then in early June. If indeed we've pass through the worst of this pandemic we may also have In-person voter but he canceled the in book in Person Voting for Today. Republicans in the legislature immediately objected. They had mocked him. They had ridiculed him. They had attacked him. They refuse to cooperate with him on this and then they attacked him for taking action. They sued in the State Supreme Court and within hours got a state Supreme Court from a majority on that court that is closely aligned with the Republicans in the legislature. Walking what the governor had done and then the. Us Supreme Court responding to another conservative lawsuit. upended absentee voting. And so we have this horrible situation today. Where across Wisconsin tens of thousands of people Are Lining up to go to polling places. And they're doing so at a point where we believe. The majority of poll workers are not going to be working where cities across state have had to dramatically reduce their number of polling places in Milwaukee for instance. They have one hundred eighty polling places. They're to move setup because that was the number that was needed for a city of that size. They now have five in the lines to vote in those five polling places go around blocks down streets through parking lot. It is a nightmare scenario Where the county executive of Milwaukee County says? The current virus will be spread further because of the decisions made by the courts and these Republican politicians. And where the county executive says more people will die. I it is. There's so much to be just completely both enraged and just I'm shocked by. I mean the idea that the the the United States Supreme Court would look at this and not even considered you know would narrowly tailor their question In such a way so as to completely disenfranchised I mean you're disenfranchising people at about six different ways in this instance. I exaggerated the number of polls in Milwaukee but people should just contemplate for a moment one hundred eighty down to five. I mean there's no physical way for those five polling places to even provide a fraction of the opportunity to vote that One hundred and eighty would technically a fraction but it is like it is what it's all action who percent right. I mean that's basically let me give you another example just to say that this is a state wide. It's not just in Milwaukee Milwaukee where you know we've had the highest level of current by cases where We have had the highest level of death until it's of particular concern for whole bunch of reasons But in Waukesha a community with substantial Latino population They had dozens of polling places. They're down to one In communities across the state where you had many many polling places they're down to one or two And they there was a report late last week that as many as one hundred jurisdiction simply did not have borders and people to do it and it is my understanding. Correct that the There that the Republican controlled legislature is aware that there has been a more absentee ballots coming in from Waukesha which is traditionally those absentee ballots come in from. Waukesha that traditionally Republican voters is era. I think that they in his depiction of this moment. There's no question that they ramped up on their advocacy for Absentee voting In the last week. Or so as this. This issue heightened extruded also. There's a large. Let THEM VOTE. Absentee voting in much of the state because people were scared. And a Lotta people put in applications. But here's where things really Get I'm sorry we lost you. Write that in some places without. We lost you for one second. Oh here's where things get incredibly messy There was an in some places you had early messages to. Get your absentee ballot. Do it take care of it. But there's a lot of state where people traditionally both in person. It's just how it's been for a very long time and I'm one of those. People historically voted in person and crazes king and you had a late surge of people asking for absentee ballots particularly from the walkie county and from seeing for Beloit wake with large African American with Chino populations And a lot of large working class people saying Oh. I better not do what I usually do. But which is devoted person but to get an absentee ballot. He was such a crushing overwhelming Demand from these places that Kurtzer working in some cases as many as one hundred ten hours a week. to to get the ballots turned around a federal judge. Last Friday said this is too overwhelming while he did not postpone the election. He did extend the amount of time when you could apply for an absentee ballot and then he extended the amount of time in which you could get it through the mail philly out. Get it back and have a process and so basically. He gave another week into early next to kind of make this whole process where it was a practical decision that simply extended the absentee ballot and the Supreme Court Yesterday the US Supreme Court shut that down. That's what's so this afternoon. That's what's so. That's what's so amazing about that ruling. They knew that people were operating under the understanding that they had a couple of extra days to get that ballot in and without any warning basically said wrong no end of story. I mean that is. That's what's so. That's one of the things that's so shocking about this. Let me ask you this John Why couldn't in in Ohio Dewine did not cancel the election. What he did was he said. The election can take place but the board of health or the the health the state The the state's health department said stay at home order. You can't go out so the election will take place but You can't do it. Why didn't they do that in Wisconsin? They did Essentially what Tony Evers announced Yesterday afternoon Monday afternoon and around one o'clock was essentially what the wind had done. He said we can't do IMP now. He took the responsibility himself personally. Dewine his health secretary step up and do it. But so health director Wisconsin. Misery was was right there with with the IRS and and so it's the same as Ohio. Whatever said was. We can't do it in person voting and so we're just going to extend the election we're going to. We're going to open things up so that we can have absentee voting for a longer period. We can get through this confusing moment and we'll make it all work it the parallels the dewine are winding. Ohio are pretty pretty amazing. It's very very similar except for one difference in Ohio. Dewine was a Republican governor with a Republican legislature and frankly sympathetic state Supreme Court In Wisconsin Iverson's a democratic governor With a incredibly belligerent Republican legislative leadership. They try to undermine him at every point and a Supreme Court that is aligned with that leadership. And so what you need to stand. This is an important thing is. This isn't simply Republican or Democrat because the winds are Republican many Republican governors who have delayed elections. This isn't conservative or liberal. Because they've been conservatives who delayed elections this is win at any cost spiteful of views hackery on the part of Republicans who think that if they if they gain this process if they narrowed this process made me they bring court I wish I could. I wish I could see some later way of referring to it but I can't. I can't see anything. I cannot see any redemptive Choice that was made here. I think it was made entirely to thwart. The governor's Evert's to have a safe and fair election. You know the the next question I was going to ask you Was How will Wisconsin respond to this? Because you know I I just I remember I was out there for the protests against Scott Walker when he was cutting things like Badger care and And and and making Wisconsin a right to work state and then I remember when the recall of Walker failed Because people just didn't like the idea of the recall they founded sort of polite on some level. And I was GONNA ask like are you know how are Wisconsin. Voters responding to the idea that all these people are going to be that that it's going to spread the corona virus or has a chance to or at the very least risking it and then it occurs to me. It's like they've already got this that rigged I mean if they get the Supreme Court they get one more seat on the Supreme Court. They've already got the The the place Jerry Rig you need you know fifty four percent of the vote only gets you You know sixty e gets you only you know whatever. It is forty two elected representatives. You'd have to get seventy percent of the vote to win the State House. And they're just they just have a locked in in some way and they just don't care do that. I think it's I think you're speaking to a lot of the reality. Let's let's first off. Make it clear. We know how Wisconsin thinks about delaying the election. There was a terrific fold on by our top polling group Marquette University Law School Bowl last week in which the an overwhelming majority of Wisconsin. I'd said postpone the election. You know movies but they they basically said. Do exactly whatever's did yesterday so by fifty four like forty two margin And that was even before things had reached their peak or started to move towards the they delay so the people that was going to wanted this delay. Delay the mayors of our major cities said delay this I mean there's no doubt where sentiment is but you are right. Sam You were talking about Frankly gerrymandering of the legislature and a host of other interventions including a lot of big money From the coke brothers and others that have sought to make Wisconsin historic swing state into a republican state. Now here's the interesting thing in two thousand eighteen. They had everything in play to reelect Scott Walker statewide the last year and so on. Sorry go ahead in two thousand eighteen. Where'd you lose me now? They had everything in played Look at locker. They had everything in played reelect Scott Walker And yet Democrats won every single statewide race. They won for governor. Lieutenant Governor Attorney General Secretaries they stay treasurer in US Senate and so we know that. The people of Wisconsin. At least. We're good Evan. Question is how much they were leaned. And how much they need. The implements by what has happened clearly. The Republicans have done everything they can to Gerrymander jury rig. The elections of this state But what they have done this week. In fact this last twenty four hours is so shocking so jarring That one would hope that people will remember and I think that's that's part of our duty in this time for students to keep our stuff. Oh and our second duty is to survive this economic crash And to make sure that that our communities the same our third duty is to protect democracy and to make sure that our civic democratic lights are bind. So that when this gun we can elect leaders. Who Will Care for us But our forth duty. I mean related to that third one is to take names to a member who let us down who exploited us in this time and to hold onto account and I can tell you I as a writer commentator in GonNa GonNa do that. I'm not going to forget what the State Supreme Court with the US Supreme Court. And what these legislators did it is. Unconscionable to ask grandmothers on the north side of Milwaukee get up before dawn and to get on a bus into ride through the city burning to wait in line for hours to cast a ballot amidst pandemic John. Before I let you go One thing that I've been reading about as been and this is a phenomenon. That's not just happening in Milwaukee it's happening in Tapping in Louisiana. I believe I think it's happening in Detroit. We obviously don't have a Full set of data on on these On on this but Propublica has a piece about early data. That shows that almost half of Milwaukee's counties almost a thousand cases and eighty one percent of its twenty seven deaths in account are African Americans and this is a population the county. The population is twenty six percent. Black do you have a sense of what accounts for that? Yeah a look. There's a lot of things and I'm not a public health expert. So I'll I'll put that up front but We have seen an underfunding of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County in recent years by other states certainly during the Walker years though though Scott Walker former governor was from Milwaukee County. He regularly attacked it and was very critical of it. We have seen in underfunding of our healthcare system in Wisconsin. That is extreme. It has had undermined elements of our health care system. This is a state where the Republicans refused To cooperate with the affordable care act Used to you know. Take the Medicare Medicaid. Money that that they could Now the governor. Our Current Governor Democrat governor has done a lot in the last year to try and build at Boyd. But you had the better part of ten years of underfunding and neglect and I think that in combination with systemic racism And you know all of the issues that extend from that especially in urban areas and especially in Milwaukee Had created a situation where Something very horrific is happening. And that is this. Disease is being concentrated certain communities the same thing is happening in. Chicago by the way and some other cities. We don't know the folk way out of it but the fact of the matter is the evidence the Propublica of Hello Brewing And it also frankly relates back to the issues that we're talking about because If indeed we have a sitting Milwaukee where you have a a large number of African Americans who have tested positive And a large number two who have already died The idea that you would Reduce the number of polling places people to move about on at at significant levels. Wait in line for hours are particularly the titular Or a whole reese politicians. At this time John Nichols I know you have a new article up an interview with Sanders specifically about the corona virus. It's at the Nation magazine. I've yet to read it but that's literally on my list of things to do immediately after the show today Appreciate your taking the time today and hanging there and stay safe. I will do bit. I hope you will do the same and all your listeners. Do the same as well. Thanks for focusing on these issues. All right John Nichols Thanks so much. Appreciate it. All right folks we're going to head into the Fun Half of the program wherein We will play some video. And I don't know how fun it's GonNa be today will try tomorrow on the program Michael Brooks will be here and then later in the program no Miki constantly be here. No key const I get it down. Eventually I'll figure that out. I could just say play. Knee-jerk appreciate your joining us. Glad we could Stream the whole way through went well Mission Accomplished Matt Hell Yeah Hell crushing their crushing it to the I had a little problem on my skype machine but I think I know what the issue was. I think Mile was doing too. Many tick tock videos but we will We will endeavour to persevere You can support this program by becoming a member at join the majority report dot Com when you do You get extra content every day and keep this show Chugging along through an era where I think we're going to hit you know we're going to have some some advertising issues We will be here but If you're in a position of supporting the show now it'd be a good time to do it if you are someone who wants access to the content. But you don't have the financial means send us an email majority reporters at gmail.com right. I want the show or something to that effect and We will get to you as soon as possible. Also Help us out sign up And listen to the AM quickey. It's free completely free. Am QUICKIE DOT com or you can find it on your podcast. Subscription Service seven minutes a day. Listen to it enjoy. It gives you a sense of what the big stories are of the day and also Just coffee DOT CO OP. Fairtrade coffee tea or chocolate. I have now moved into the full. I'm drinking a full picture of this during the show. I don't know if you picked up on that but That is of course the Mr Blend. I did get another bag. I got to five pound bags that were shipped to me. I did get another bag and no it is not the WTI F- blend I would never I second favourite is Los Dias And Fair trade ten percent off. If you use the coupon code majority go order some your some of that. Coffee they They're great to their producers There are co op there. It did. That's a like a quadruple win. So check that out Tonight is Tuesday. Michael Brooks will be streaming. The Michael Brooks show you can go to Patriot. Dot Com slash. Tm BS or to YouTube dot com. The Michael Brooks show to watch that tonight at seven. Pm Eastern Matt. You have any idea who's GONNA be on. He's really good about communicating. This stuff also check out the anti Fatah Jamie is Got A A new one coming out this week as well as her vampire podcast You can check out the antibiotic Patriotic Dot com slash the Fatah and of course Matt Literary Hangover. You guys are going gangbusters over there. Yeah we are. It's crazy Most recent episode about Africa Ben Sixteen Eighty nine play about Bacon rebellion. We talk about some of the radical influences of the rebellion such as the levellers who when they delegated power said it was a matter of convenient and that power still off always resided in the people Which I think is interesting concept that maybe we should bring similar that back but That more recent figure day Patriot dot com slash literary hangover. I folks Quick Break Fun. Half number six four six two five seven thirty nine notices. Oh right yes. Thank you brandon Folks plugs in notices. We usually do this up front. But I think we're going to start doing it at the end of the show and these are covert nineteen plugs notices for March set. Excuse ME April seventh. Two Thousand Twenty You can find these on Youtube. All the links that we talk about in this will be posted under the youtube description. And in the PODCAST. Pass around if you have one to send US send it to us at majority report gmail.com right in the subject line plugs in notices calving rights swan send us out the Chicago community. I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor with art of balance trying to get the word out about remote mental health services that are offered on a sliding scale basis with our interns it being able to offer pro bono therapy a handful of counselors working with variety communities but in particular the LGBT community. I work primarily with the Trans community so anyone needing mental health at this time. Just want to send out the signal. It's there for them. You can go to art of Valance C. H. I. For Chicago Art of Balanced C. H I dot com or you can send an email to reveal at Arta. Balance Chai Dot Com Union County of New Jersey. Mutual aid is sponsoring a fundraiser for the Elizabeth Coalition to house. The homeless coalition is longstanding feature in the Elizabeth New Jersey Commu community donations can be made through facebook or search for fundraiser for Elizabeth Coalition. That's from Mar. I worked for nonprofit that deals in small businesses lending in New York City our nonprofit is dispersing loans for small businesses affected by Kovic nineteen through the five boroughs. Alot is a link that has all the information this is at Renaissance Dash newyork ny Dot Org Renaissance Dash Ny dot Org We're offering fifty thousand dollars at three percents interest rates for term up to forty eight months. Please note that is a nonprofit organization. We have a limited amount that we can be lending so this program is on a first-come-first-served basis and not getting funds set. Aside by the cares act is difficult for some small business owners in New York that are on the under banked and have language barriers. We deal with these communities on a daily basis open to serve from Listener Jonathan at the Renaissance Economic Development Corp. so check that out and lastly Brennan writes. I wanted to give a shoutout to ray. Lenzi is running for Congress in Illinois's Twelfth District as a Progressive Democrat and won a tough primary to be the democratic nominees running against Mike bossed very much trump. Republican district nearly flipped blue last election. good shot at Checkout Lenzi L. E. N. Z. I. For F. O. R. Congress Dot. Org to look at his platform drop them a donation if you can Brennan writes midterm me from a right-wing Glenn Beck Fan in highschool to voting for Bernie in my very first presidential election. This year left his best. Keep up the good for you. Thanks for the email and check that out. All of these links will be available on our youtube page. I gotta do is Google plugs in notices four seven Kobe nineteen plus and notices four seven youtube. Sam Cedar you will find it all right folks. Quick Break Fun half leftist. Sas Jamie and I may have a disagreement. Yeah you can't just say whatever you want about people just because you're rich. I have an absolute right. Mark them on Youtube. They're buggy with the boss. I am not your employer. I'm tired of the negativity. I'm sorry I didn't mean to upset you nervous a little bit. Upset you riled up. Yeah maybe you should rethink your defensive at your booking idiots which is going to get rid of you all right but dude Dude Dude Dude Dude Dude. You want to smoke his joint. Yes do you feel like you are a dinosaur? I'll shit exactly. I'm happy now. So win win. It's a win win win. Hell Yeah Hell listen to me. Two three four five times eight four seven six five. Oh One four. Five seven eight fifty six twenty seven one half five eight three point nine billion. Wow He's also don't you see the limbaugh everybody's taking their dumb juice? Sammy dance dance. Ooh I had my. I am hoping that more moves to my repertoire. All I have the dip in this world. Double-dip yes. This is a perfect moment. No wait what do you make under a million dollars com? You're not paying US me. Fuck you you fucking. I think you belong in jail thing that you're ready for a quick break. Take a moment to talk to some of the Libertarians out. There Dick Whatever vehicle. You want to drive to the library. What you're talking about his Jim Jabir Lactic. I'm feeling more chill already. Donald Trump can kiss all of our asses. Sam Hey Andy you guys ready to. Hitler was such an idiot. Agree no death Dominica. Wow that's why this guy's got a really. Wow I wanna just flesh this out a little bit. I mean look. It's a free speech issue. If you don't like me. Thank you for calling into the majority report. Them will be with US shortly.

Wisconsin Democrats United States Supreme Court Mike Konczal United States federal government director Republican legislature Sam Cedar youtube The Roosevelt Institute Milwaukee America State Supreme Court Nation magazine John Nichols New York
New year, new Congress

Left, Right & Center

52:59 min | 2 years ago

New year, new Congress

"KCRW sponsors include focus features presenting on the basis of sex starring Felicity Jones as Ruth Bader Ginsburg as she fights to overturn a century of gender discrimination. In select eaters, now everywhere January eleventh. Retook the gavel on Thursday Democrats promptly passed bills to reopen the government, but Mitch McConnell says those bills are DO in the Senate. He's waiting for Democrats to agree to something. The president is willing to sign and Chuck Schumer says the president told him he's willing to keep the government closed for months or years. So is the government ever going to reopen? Welcome to left right and center, you're civilized, yet provocative antidote to the self-contained opinion bubbles that dominate political debate Josh barrow on today's show John Bresnahan capital bureau chief for politico will join us to discuss how Pelosi built the coalition that made her speaker again, and what she had to promise moderates and left us in the process. Mike konczal from the Roosevelt institute will join us to discuss the first major democratic presidential candidate was with Warren in the agenda. She'll run on. We'll also look at the fight between President Trump and the Federal Reserve all of that is coming up next on left right and center. We'll be right back. On the newest Nocturne. I went to bed bath and beyond and bought a pillow and emergency blanket and a flashlight and a face cloth. Sketchbook? The night comes and Michael asks the obvious question where we're going to stay the night. Whereas the safe port of harbor in this gigantic building where we can squirrel ourselves away. Find knock turn or every listen to podcasts. Welcome back to the left right and center. I'm Josh barrow your center and business columnist at New York magazine on the right is Ryan Salaam, executive editor of national review on the left is Ana Marie Cox, host of the crooked media podcast with friends like these and columnist for scifis fan girls. It's a new year, and there's a new democratic majority in the house of representatives. New members were sworn in on Thursday and Nancy Pelosi took the gavel as speaker after passing rules to govern the new house. Democrats turned quickly to pass bills to reopen. The government one Bill would fund the department of homeland security into February with no new money for President Trump's border wall. The other Bill bundled together. Six Senate proposals to fund other government departments that are currently closed like interior and commerce in December. The Senate unanimously passed a proposal to reopen the government on terms the democratic houses now proposing, but then President Trump changed his mind on whether he was okay with that. And Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell says he's not going to bring up any Bill. The president is not willing to sign joining us to discuss. All that is John Bresnahan capital bureau chief for politico. Hello, john. So what's happening now are there active talks to end this impasse? I'm not sure they're going to get anywhere. But there are discussions going on to try to break the impasse. You know, Trump has talked about now, they've they the Trump's allies floated possibly trading dreamers, DACA. The deferred action for childhood arrivals Bill for wall funding. Democrats and some hard-line conservatives say that's not going to happen. But at least there's some negotiations underway at this point. You know, if the last two weeks, we haven't seen all that talking at all. On ahead of seemed to me that the president's calculation here is the Democrats care about the operation of the government. They care that ninety five percent of the department of housing and urban development is shut and that there are services for people in public housing aren't getting provided because of that eventually Democrats will be forced to give the president what he wants because they care about the government working, and he's sort of willing to just sit there and wait. Yeah. Nihilist will always win a fight. You know, someone who is willing to just see the world burn is going to have a hand an upper hand on people that that that don't so. Yeah, he's he's made a calculated move the Democrats care about something. And he doesn't care about anything. It seems to me though, that that that that also discounts the feelings of the general public the majority of which do not want the things that the president wants. I mean, this is going to be a real showdown, right? Where I talking about this between the minority of the country that is the president's base. And you know, everyone else who probably would prefer that the government function. I agree with a lot of those comments. I think I mean look. From tipped his hand early on. He said, he didn't you know, he thought most of the people who were affected were Democrats. Most of the better workers were Democrats anyway, and it's not his base. But, you know, look, I do think there are there are a lot of people in Trump states that are going to be hurt by continue partial shutdown. I mean the interior department. You know, there's a lot of national parks in in western states the agricultural department. Okay. Their farmers who are supposed to be getting payments because they're they're being hurt in the China trade war that Trump has also instigated and they're not getting payments. So I do think the longer this goes on the pressure will mount on the White House on what is the objective for Republicans here? Because the weird thing about this ask, and basically we're fighting over a difference in about three and a half billion dollars in barrier funding for the border and part of why it's been difficult to get a deal done is that that's mostly symbolic. It has some impact on on border security, but it's mostly the president wants a wall. Because he can say look, I built this wall. And Democrats don't want to give it to him because they don't like the symbolism either. And that's I think made it difficult to strike a deal because Democrats might trade that for something. But it's hard to convince conservatives to give something up for that. Because all they're getting his symbolism, and whatever you would give to the Democrats something on DACA or something like that would be real. So what is the objective here? The objective for President Trump is as you suggest to achieve this largely symbolic goal. He promised a wall. And the fact that he has not delivered. It is going to him to some of his early champions. So that's certainly one part of it. And then there's the fact that on the democratic side you have some of the Schreuder younger members. Akeem Jeffries is one of them in new member of the democratic leadership who said again, and again a wall is an utterly terrible idea. We can't possibly do that. But he keeps talking about enhanced border fencing, and that leads the White House to believe gosh. Maybe there's something here that we can claim victory on and for the president. That is very very meaningful. Is there some kind of concession that? Democrats can claim is not a border wall. And that the president can claim is some kind of victory number one number two adds to the efficacy of a border wall. This is a larger conversation, but I have to say as part of a layered series of defenses. If you look at Israel, southern border wall that they use to basically halt migration or sharply. Reduced migration from Eritrea elsewhere in sub Saharan Africa. It does seem to have had some success, but the replicating them United States is a tougher question. It would only be one part of larger strategy really the keyboard enforcement mechanism would have to be something like mandatory verify endorse by Claire mccaskill and a variety of other moderate Democrats have yesteryear. And it's an idea that is contentious because the real issue is the disposition of the unauthorized immigrant population that's been in the country for a million years. And basically Donald Trump is not looking to do anything about that. Democrats will not concede. Anything meaningful for anything short of that? Which is why you're talking about enhanced border fencing or a border wall. Yeah. I mean, John what Ryan describes there is there are a number of objectives on both sides. You could conceivably try to build a deal around. But but we've been here before we had discussions months ago about the idea that there would be a much larger amount of spending on border security, including wall in exchange for regularization of much of the of the DACA population. The problem is that the president is unreliable he agrees to things. And then he's he's pressure on Fox News and other places in changes his mind to how does that impact this negotiation? If he if he's offering stuff up either to Democrats were proposing things to to conservatives who might be reluctant to some of it. It's hard for him to convincingly state anyone that he's actually offering anything because they're going to be afraid that he's going to change his mind, which is exactly why we're in the shutdown in the first place. I mean, he I mean Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell and Schumer passed a funding Bill to keep the government open through February eighth. They thought that they had Trump's cintas. Vice president Pence had met with him that. Day. And you know, and they thought okay, we'll go ahead and pass this, and then Trump turned around in and reneged on the deal when the freedom caucus said they didn't like it. And I think we own brings up a really good point. You know, a real. I mean, if you're really serious about this this issue. Okay. From you know, in not that wall is not serious or worship Kirti. But you would you would impose some kind of requirement on the US businesses the verify, but they, you know, under Republican control. They couldn't even pass this in the house, the House Republican leadership didn't wanna take that issue up. So I mean, look, I think you know, he's passed the tax cut into got a major tax cut through whether you support it or not it was a major piece of legislation, but he was not able to repeal ObamaCare. He has to have the wall in the sense that you know, he promised during the campaign. It was a Lynch pin of his campaign. And now, he's got a deliver it, and, but I do think the White House is underestimated at least as far as Democrats are concerned, you know, this is becoming a moral issue for Democrats at least out of the. Junior members and a lot of members of the congressional caucus. They feel very strongly about this issue. And it's become a real test for them that they you know, Nancy Pelosi was talking about the immorality of the wall. And then, you know, of course, Trump is saying, you know, the exact opposite. So the gap in rhetoric on both sides is you know, you're used to that. But I really do think there's so much emotional baggage on this issue right now that it's really hard to see how they get any kind of Philip Shen in short-term all of us have kind of agreed that that Trump wants this. Well because it says symbol at symbolic. I think it's important to spell out explicitly. What's the symbol of? And it's a symbol of the demonization of Brown people. And that is why his base wants this. And that is why he talks about a wall and not offense. And that is why he's focused on a wall and not border security because this is about images of people over running a wall. If you talk about e verify if you talk about the paperwork in the bureaucracy that might actually address some of the problems with illegal immigration, you aren't getting that picture of of death. Sprit people surging, you know into the country. I also want to point out that from tweeted out a game of thrones me m- about the wall. Which obviously proves that. He doesn't watch television. And I think also says a lot about how he's thinking about this wall. I mean, he has characterized immigrants as the frozen undid. You know, I I just. She shaking his head. And I want to press on this a little bit. Because there are a lot of reasons why someone might favor a more restrictive immigration policy in the US. President Trump focuses very extensively on the idea of these immigrants is a security threat that they're coming here. They're going to commit crimes that terrorists are trying to come over the border. And I think you would say that that is that is not one of the major concerns about immigration even illegal immigration into the US. So is isn't auto, right? That the reason that he focuses so much on the border itself rather than people overstay visas, and that sort of thing and why he focuses so much on this militarized in some cases, literally militarized sending the military to the border is because he he paints immigrants not just as as something to be managed through policy and something that you need a limit on. But it is a security threat is a dangerous. The reason he focuses on it is because he explicitly referred to building a wall insisted it would happen were to be elected as president or this reason for a variety of reasons that absolutely being one of them. But yeah, he tied himself to the mast on this particular issue. The other. Challenge. However, is that Republicans have operated under the false premise that the DACA eligible or the key issue that the so-called dreamer population is the key issue. Democrats have used that as a wedge very effectively, but they're not actually willing to concede mandatory e-verify for the DACA eligible population. Why because the docket eligible youth are the most attractive part of the pie. But they care about the parents of the dock eligible youth. They care about a much larger swath of the population that is less morally appealing to a lot of swing voters. So they don't actually talk about that. So you basically have this boxing, you have this fake conflict over what the actual stakes are Democrats will not make any meaningful compromise for the so-called dreamers for the duck eligible population and Republicans have pre pretending that they will. And that's not gonna happen. They could've put themselves in a much more favorable -sition. But as you guys have been saying, it's true. Donald Trump hasn't been sufficiently solid. On this. If Donald Trump had signed legislation that said, we're going to do something for the dock eligible folks for mandatory verify, it would have been filibustered Democrats would have opposed it. But then he would have had more of a leg to stand on. It could be that he's trying to pivot to that now. But it may well be too late. Can it can I turn and talk a little bit before we go to break about how Republicans in congress feel about this this fight that they have allowed the president to push them into fighting John. We've seen statements from two Republican senators at least Susan Collins from Maine, Cory Gardner from Colorado. Both Republicans who are going to have to stand for reelection in states that Donald Trump lost saying that they want to reopen the government even if the president doesn't get his wolf funding. How solid is the president support in congress right now for staking this demand as something that they need to get in order to reopen. The government. I don't think he has any problems worrying about his where the Republicans are in the house or Senate. I think you know, you'll find a number of individual members who would say definitely in private. They just they hate this. Hey, you know, they hate the shutdown. They you know, they they unhappy with the way Trump handled kind of the the endgame leading up to the shutdown. You know, where he where they couldn't read where his position was. And you keep hearing that over and over they won't endorse anything until they know where Trump is. But the reality is Trump owns the Republican party. It is Trump's party now. And these members how the members and senators will fall in line if Cory Gardner and Susan Collins ten come out and said that I think Mitch McConnell would have gone to and said, you should come out and say it, I mean, you know, that doesn't they I don't think the leaders have on either side is feeling any pressure to act and they're not going to get anywhere where Trump is not going to go. They're not gonna even lean out a little bit on if you went to the cabinet meeting the other day. I mean, Trump's even you know admitted that he did that to Pence that he wasn't going to support a deal that pens offered to Schumer. So I mean, if Trump's not going back a pen, he's he's not going to back up anyway on the hill. You know, it's going to have to be Trump's deal. It's you know, he's gonna have to make a deal directly with Schumer and Pelosi. When Trump says this is what I will support. Then that's when you'll see the Republicans move on this this this is this leads to my theory of how the shutdown is going to end. And I don't think it's going to end for at least a couple of more weeks, and my my theory. This has been this kind of weird low intensity shut down. I realized that it has large impacts on hundreds of thousands of federal workers. And there are people who rely on the on these departments. But for the most part the government continues to do most of the things that are ordinarily does including through hundreds of thousands of essential workers who are going to work not receiving a paycheck just with a promise that they will get it once the government reopens, and that equillibrium works because there's the strong expectation that they eventually worked this stuff out. Usually these shutdowns don't go very long past a paycheck date with January eleven is when most of these federal workers are waiting to see whether they're going to get paid or not. And so the whole equilibrium depends on those essential workers continuing to show up for work, even though they're not getting paychecks. And I think they have a lot of power to change the. Situation. I think you know, the if even a fraction of TSA agents stopped showing up for work. I think you would see an enormous political reaction because this would go from a symbolic fight to something that has, you know, really direct impacts on on a larger and larger fraction of population. I r s also can't issue refund checks right now. Now, that's not a big deal at the beginning of January by the middle of February. If we were still in a shutdown after another five weeks or so that would be a big deal in. So that is what I think is what would really change public opinion here, and therefore would really change the political dynamics and force people off their positions. The problem is that you know, that entails a lot of pain for a lot of people. And I think that's the thing that would make this very real for people. Anyway, I wanna take a quick break. I will be back with Ryan Salaam of national review. Marie Cox with friends like these and John Bresnahan of politico to talk about Nancy Pelosi. You're listening to left right and center. What do you think? Share your thoughts on today's show on our Facebook page or tweet us at LLC KCRW and download the KCRW app to listen to left right and center on. Demand. I'm Ken white criminal defense attorney litigator and baffled member of the American public. I've teamed up with Josh barrow host KCRW's left right and center to host new show. It's called L RC presents all the president's lawyers. It's all the lawsuits and legal drama. We couldn't fit into left right and center, we talk about Michael avenue. Audie stormy Daniels. Michael Cohen and all your favorite characters. Tune in Wednesday at two pm on KCRW or download wherever you get podcasts. Back again with left right and center. I'm Josh barrow of New York magazine on the right is Ryan Salaam, executive editor of national review on the left is Marie Cox, host of the crooked media podcast with friends like these columnists for scifis fan girls and John Bresnahan capital bureau chief for politico is also with us with the democratic wave Nancy Pelosi has become the first person to return to the speakership after losing the majority since Sam Rayburn in one thousand nine hundred eighty five and Rayburn has a building named after him in the capital complex on. What do you make of the reruns of Nancy Pelosi? She's had a lot of detractors. There were a lot of people within the party who were trying to depose her as speaker. And yet she wins with almost unanimous support mentally within the democratic conference. I am to the left of Pelosi probably on many political issues. But I have to say that I admire her so much for this re entry into the spotlight the way that she's handled herself the way that she's wheeled and dealed. I think she's a consummate politician. It's so interesting to see her face off. With Trump because sh- her her quickness and her ability to make deals is like so in sharp contrast with the guy who supposedly is the master dealmaker, right and choosers got some great turn of phrases lately. I also think that she probably is dealing with the new progressive caucus more adroitly than anyone else in that fairly geriatric leadership would. And I look forward to that that caucus rising up after she makes her way into the sunset. Drunk. Can you describe for us the the agreements that Pelosi reached with various flanks of her caucus there were major concessions she ended up making both to the progressive caucus. And then also the people on the more moderate flank of the democratic conference in order to consolidate all the support, you know, she'd definitely make concessions. I'm not sure how major some of them were. I mean, she made the biggest one was of course, our term limits concession that. She could serve at a maximum four years speaker, but she's already seventy eight years old. So I'm not sure how big a concession that. What? I mean. I think the the thing was plsy would have said anything to get back in the speaker share with aggressives she committed to having more representation from the progressive caucus on they major committees. And making sure that the voice progresses was hurt in the committees. And again, I think that by virtue of who got elected that would have happened anyway. And it's really interesting to hear to me that that people are to win and we were talking about being to the left of Pelosi. And there's a lot of there's a lot of new member. Who are going to be the left a Pelosi on issues, which is fascinating. Because I mean, the Republicans of tank bluesy for years decades now is being in San Francisco, Nancy, you know, in her, you know, you don't want the rest of the country to have. And now Pelosi is not a hard line of, you know, progressive as compared to some of her members. So it's funny to see the pollution in the party. And she made some of these member she bought off very easily. She she said, you know, she subcommittee assignment, or she'll, you know, they'll get a chance to push whatever legislation they want. I mean, so I mean, I think if you watched it it was a masterful kind of display of how you manipulate other members. And in my twenty five years covering the hill every day Nancy Pelosi is by far the best vote counter. I've ever seen. Right hundred. Plus is still useful. As a boogie woman for Republicans. I doubt it. I'm skeptical about that. Because basically, these are the salad days for Democrats. This is the perfect time. They will not be held accountable for anything. They could have the little debates here there that can be cute that can generate you know, fundraising dollars for this or that progressive group. But really what they have to do is just play prevent defense. They just have to ensure that the president can accomplish anything legislative Lii. And if they do that, they'll do just fine. And also a lot of attention is going to be drawn by the democratic contenders and twenty twenty because of course, the democratic primary season is already begun. And so they just have to kind of plot along and Nancy Pelosi is just going to fall away from the spotlight. So on to that point about playing defense a lot of the fights over these rules involved, you know, sort of blue sky ideas that are, you know, Donald Trump is not going to sign, but it sets it sets a table for how. Democrats might legislative they control the entire government in two years. And there was some discontent from the left about some of the things in the rules package. They brought back these rules called Pero that basically mean if you're going to expand an entitlement program, you need to to finance that with new revenues. There was some discontent about how powerful this green new deal committee is going to be it's not going to be able to directly propose legislation, and we saw Alexandria Casio Cortez was one of just three members of democratic conference who voted against the rules package because they didn't think it was progressive enough. Do they have valid concerns there. The vast majority of the progressive caucus decided that they were fine with this packaging. They signed off on it. I mean, I think that people like ASC wanted what they wanted for good reasons, and I agree with those positions. But also, I think this is a victory for them to get these discussions on the table. I read an interview with her actually where she basically said that that conversation has now widened the green new deal is something that no one had heard of or practically no one had heard of like a few months ago. And now, it's something that people I. To the left and people in the center are talking about, you know, she's widened the Overton window on the left when it's been actually it's been creeping so far right for so long. I think that the Pero a rule is an interesting compromise. My recollection in John correct me if I'm wrong they passed that. But also said, but we can violate this. When we want to like it. So I think that's actually pretty masterful deal making on the part of progressives. If they said, okay, we're gonna vote for this thing that sounds really good, but we cannot comply with it for the things we really really want. So what does what he did in the past? Anyway, they waved it anyway. So, you know, John Bresnahan capital bureau chief for politico. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. It is January twenty nineteen. And that means we're about a month into the twenty twenty presidential election campaign. Former housing and urban development secretary Houlihan Castro who also served as mayor of San Antonio is expected to announce a presidential run imminently, but more notably Senator Elizabeth Warren is formed a committee to explore a presidential run. We're joined now by Mike konczal, Mike is fellow at the Roosevelt institute where he focuses on financial reform and progressive economic policy. Mike, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So Mike on the show couple of weeks ago. We were talking about these proxy fights over Beto Aurora, which seemed to be an opportunity to relitigate the fight between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and over, you know, the level of progressivism that should be in the. Socratic presidential candidates agenda. Where does Elizabeth Warren sit in the fight over the future of the Democratic Party? You know, it's interesting so coming out of two thousand sixteen the tw- the Democrats had three major problems to overcome. They had to reestablish their base with people of color and younger people. They had to consolidate a lot of gains. They made with suburban moderate voters, and they needed to resecure and take back the upper midwest from President Trump, and the largely did this in two thousand eighteen very well now looking at twenty twenty it's still a challenge. But it's now going to be a hard one because it needs to be done within one person leading the party is the nominee and here, I think you'll see Warren emphasized her history of fighting for working class, people kitchen table issues like healthcare and credit card bills and also a dealing with corruption. So I think it allows her to talk a much more aggressively about what's broken with Wall Street. What's broken with people's everyday experiences, but not necessarily in the most? Aggressive tones to turn off a lot of more moderate people, but ways that might connect with a lot of the base. So I think we'll see as as she emphasizes a lot of her midwest roots and a lot of this history that she has fighting for kitchen table issues. What that will look like on? I feel like a all the democratic presidential candidates with the possible exception of Bernie Sanders, and probably not even that exception. Warren has the most clearly defined ideology, she's really associated with a particular view of what government is four and therefore is not sort of molding her ideology to bring out into this campaign based on where the electorate is. I guess my question is to what extent are these primaries really about ideology is there are these candidates going to voters and presenting a policy plan and saying here, this is what I think is four vote for me is that how this works. Yeah. Historically, I don't think that's the case. I also think what's interesting about warrant is that you described her as having a solid ideological background what she has a resume what she has as a series of position. That she has acted on in her career like that she's worked on in academia that she's worked on in government. And I think that's the strongest argument for her candidacy is that. She doesn't just talk a good game. Right. She's actually been able to make real serious changes in American policy. I it is so early. I mean, at this point, I think is just as good a chance that we're going to you know, determine our candidate by a sing off than it is by ideology, there's we're going to do a series of Instagram cook offs. Maybe it is crazy new world out there all the rules are up in the air. I am hopeful that the discussion is about ideology, but you know, it's going to also be about race in also be about gender. I don't see how the metoo movement can't play a significant role in in what will be happening, especially if Biden enters the race. So you know, ideology and personal background. Those are always maybe the top two things that people think about and there's going to be a whole cast of characters to judge to judge by those things you actually were praising at least a portion of Elizabeth Warren agenda in your column this week saying that she had some good ideas about how the military spends money inefficiently. Even though I believe you were critical of her overall vision of how the military. Should work. It seems inferior like she ought to be one of the best position candidates to attack Trump on a number of issues on personal corruption on closeness to industries on leading industries take advantage of the government, including defense contractors. It seems like you know, that she in many ways would be very well matched up to Trump's weaknesses. I do think that symbolism and cultural stereotypes wind up accounting for a lot. So I've got a bit bearish about her chances in the primary, but I also think that it doesn't really matter all that much insofar as Warren really is an intellectual leader and the bigger picture that's happened. Among the Democrats since their defeat in two thousand sixteen is that the Sanders lights and the Clinton nights at the elite level are totally totally aligned policy. Exactly. 'cause personally. Well, that's an open question. I'd get a grassroots level. That's certainly true. But I've gotta say Mike konczal would have played a very senior role in Clinton White House or in a Sanders White House that is absolutely true. If you look at the advisers working behind. These guys behind Biden or beta or what have you the truth is that there's a lot of very tight convergence. You have a strong network. A former staffers who are very aware that hey, we don't know. Which of these thirty candidates will become the next president. But the folks we're going to actually staff that administration. They are very very aligned. Now, the difficulty is that the coalition itself the electoral coalition is going to be a lot less allied. If you see a big democratic victory in twenty twenty it's going to be because you have upper middle class folks and working class folks who do not have the same core material interests, but at the elite level this party is super United in a way that ought to be intimidating for people like myself on the right Mike do agree with that assessment has Elizabeth Warren, basically already won the policy fight within the party. Even if she doesn't win the nomination. Yeah. I think so both both her and Bernie Sanders, I think it had kind of closed up the space in the following twenty sixteen you now see it see particularly with healthcare where even the most moderate members are now proposing a pretty expansive Medicare expansion rather than trying to. Go back into the exchanges and bring back the individual mandate and try to increase subsidies. I'm you know, you see it with a broad focus on things like antitrust in corporate governance, the fight for a fifteen dollars minimum wage right now is the standard policy. It's just a matter of what year you implemented where bef- when you know, President Obama introduced a ten dollar and ten cent minimum wage that was seen as very progressive back in like twenty twelve. So there's definitely been a movement left on the economic space. I think both because of Trump's victory. I think both because of the sense that the economy is not working in a lot of core key ways, the general sense of unease, and you see it both on immigration and on globalization and on corporate profits a monopoly in platforms. So I do. Yeah. It's definitely the case that has gone. The question is how far and how aggressive people will push it. And I think what will matter for twenty twenty s how much it is centered in the kind of rhetoric pitch to voters on whether or not we just need some tweaking around the edges, which you'll probably hear more centrist. Candidates or whether or not we need more structural reforms. And I think you'll see it particularly play out in the in President Trump because some people will say President Trump is kind of a unique threat to our government. Some people see him as much more of a general symptom of the corruption that happens within government, and he'll in a weird way kind of be a proxy for how that works out. I I want to push back, and I I want to hear from both on and Mike about this on the messaging about how the the economy is not working for ordinary people. Isn't this a difficult time to be making that pitch? I mean, the the economy certainly could be better. But I mean, for example, just on Friday, we got a jobs report that that far beat expectations which growth finally kicking up over three percent isn't isn't it difficult to run on a, you know, rather than you know, Trump is corrupt. Trump is misusing our resources to run specifically on, you know, the the economy's not working for you message at a time when the economy really feels feels good to a lot of ordinary people on I think it may feel good right now. But. I think that what worries a lot of the democratic base is the stability of the economy and the stability of the government. And I think we talked about this after the midterms, which is that the Democrats are not going to win the White House by talking about impeaching Trump as much as I personally think that would be a great idea, and they're not gonna win it talking about his vulgarity. They're not gonna win it personally. They are going to have to talk about policy, but there is a certain amount of policy ties into Trump being so unstable Trump being so mercurial, I think that they can deliver message like we're here to take care of you like you're not going to suffer from the whims of someone who thinks that you know, who who's answer to a stock slide is to coal for the firing of the chairman of the fed like, I I believe that there's going to be some some twenty of those messages there, and I want to push back on something to which is that. That sounds great that all the staffers our buddy buddy and everyone's aligned on policy at think, that's probably not going to hold. I, you know, unfortunately, probably I've seen some democratic infighting. Some like it's been my entire life has been democratic infighting at an eye as much as I think that you know, Trump is UniteR and not a divider. You know, once the stakes get really high there there. I don't think we can avoid some some ugliness. Hopefully, it'll pass hopefully be behind the scenes, but I think it will happen, Mike. How do you sell that message about the economy not working at a at a time? When when the economic numbers are are pretty good. Well, you know, even if we're not in a recession in twenty twenty an even if unemployment continues to be very low and wage growth picks up little bit. You're still going to have big problems with healthcare. We're gonna see what the removal of the individual mandate does to the exchanges over the next few years. But even if it doesn't cause a lot of problems people still struggle with prescription drugs. They still struggle with their premiums. And what they would have covers you have a generation that's still graduating with very high student loans and incredibly salient issue. Everyday americans. You know, so even if wages kind of get back to where they were in say two thousand which would still require some effort. There's still a lot of issues that I think are going to need policy solutions that you can directly tie to both President Trump and congressional Republicans. Finally, I I didn't want to spend too much time on this. But I think we do need to touch on it on. I I want your thoughts on the likability conversation around Warren and the weird subtext to a lot of it. I think is that people are worried that like she reminds people of Hillary Clinton, and she will face the same attacks that Hillary Clinton faced and it's kind of funny given how wildly differently her positioning is in terms of her relationship to corporate America. But I think, you know, the both, you know, some of these concerns I think our our sexist nature, but also people are concerned about you know, what if you know, what if the electorate does have a problem with this kind of woman. This kind of woman. I wish we could have time just dive into what that means like accomplish educated thoughtful pushy, perhaps I think that people's difficulties with Clinton wins. So far back. It is really hard to untangle the sexism from the history just in from her policy positions in from just her personality. The thing I thought you were going to mention is far as ability goes is that for whatever faults weren't has. We can spend a whole other episode on that I believe she presents herself pretty authentically the Instagram video with her drinking a beer was really weird and awkward and hope she doesn't do that again. But for the most part, I think what people. Are looking for when they say like ability is authenticity. And that was something that a lot of people felt that Clinton was missing. Right. And I think again, whatever you think of Warren, she seems to be herself. I'm, you know, her probably not totally impromptu press conference the weekend after she announced she came out, you know, in a parka in jeans and tennis shoes hard to imagine Hillary Clinton doing something like that. And I think people will probably appreciate her relative off into and that will maybe matter a little bit more hopefully than this conversation about likability. Which to me is very difficult to untangle from just pure sexism. I want to thank Mike konczal, fellow with the Roosevelt institute for joining us. Thanks for having me still with me are on the left honorary Cox with friends like these on the right Ryan, salon of national review. Now, it's time for tweet to the week. Sometimes it only takes one hundred forty characters or maybe two hundred and eighty two still the spirit of the week. Ryan Salaam, what tweets struck? I always am delighted by Joe Weisenthal tweeting Joe is an editor at Bloomberg. And he was making an observation about some of the conversation. The roiling conversation around the new jobs numbers the purpose of going back and looking at wrong predictions of full employment isn't to mock people for being wrong, but to promote intellectual humility. And maybe if we're lucky to get people to stress test, their basic premises, very earnest very necessary on Marie Cox. What's your Twitter the week? My tweet is a thread from Pirker Higgins who brings them history to that video of AFC dancing. It turns out that that video is an artifact from what people used to call remix culture back in the, you know, dark days of two thousand and nine and there's a whole really interesting copyright history to it. So people should look at that. That's at X are my Twitter week is actually not from this week. It's from last August it was from the president. And he said tariffs are working far better than anyone ever anticipated. China market has dropped twenty seven percent last four months. And they're talking to us our market is stronger than ever, and we'll go up dramatically when these horrible trade deals are successfully renegotiated America first now fast forward, a few months and apple warned this week that its profits would disappoint because of weakening consumer demand in China. The president is now learning the trade wars are negative some you can definitely hurt the Chinese economy. But that's just going to bounce back and hurt the American economy to I've been talking with Ana Marie Cox with friends like these and Ryan Salaam of national review, we will be back with Jason Furman to talk about Trump the economy and the Federal Reserve, you're listening to left right and center. Join the conversation on our Facebook page for tweet us at L RC KCRW stream, all episodes of left, right and center and other great shows at KCRW dot com slash podcast. Back again with left right and center. I'm your host Josh barrow on the right is Ryan Salaam, executive editor of national review on the left is Ana Marie Cox, host of the crooked media podcast with friends like these and columnists for scifis fan girls. It has been a wild few weeks in the stock market if you own stocks who probably haven't been too happy about it. And the president hasn't been too happy about it either. He's pretty sure he knows who's at fault Jerome Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, the president thinks the feds open market committee, which meets eight times a year to set interest rates has been raising those rates too much in that that's dragging down the stock market and threatening economic growth. Trump is even reportedly been ranting about his desire to get rid of Powell Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin had to release a statement from his beach vacation in Kabul, San Lucas to clarify that the president realizes he can't fire the fed chairman. But is the president right that the central Bank is raising interest rates too much. And if he is right. What should he be doing about it? We're joined now by Jason Furman who is the former chairman of President Obama's council of economic advisors and is a professor at the Harvard. Kennedy School of government, welcome. Jason. Thanks for having. So Jason in addition to serving President Obama, you were also an economic aid in Bill Clinton's White House, and it was the Clinton economic team who basically came up with this role that a president shouldn't talk about monetary policy. Can you give us the rationale behind that? Because monetary policies important. You would think presidents would talk about it. Why is it so odd that President Trump is being so public about thinking that the fed is doing the wrong thing? There's three arguments one commenting on monetary policy. When you actually don't have the power to make it can be counterproductive and make you look weak or even make the fed react against you second that you're not going to change policy, but you're just going to create noise and confusion. And finally, there's a belief that monetary policy is a technocratic act that often involves giving up. What is the very best in the very short run to make the economy better over the medium and long run. And that's why we have an independent body that does it because presidents would always wanted to be great for the next six months. Even if that hurt us later on. So you see those are the arguments are are they right because one of the things that I think we here as a critique a lot of the fed is that the fed has been excessively concerned about inflation. And so it's had a bias toward raising rates too early in order to to. Fight a phantom inflation menace, and that, you know, so Trump his comments, even though it's unusual for the president to to be making them there within a tradition that we that we hear a lot about that. The fed is systematically failing in its technocratic job. I don't think the said is flawless, and I think they're absolutely should be a debate about it. When I worked for President Obama. I didn't come on the fed in public. I don't work for the administration, and I wrote not bed about two months ago suggesting that the fed should not raise rates in December. They didn't take my advice. So I think it's a important subject for debate. I just think presidents in general this one in particular are uniquely capable of contributing to that debate on it. There's kind of an odd thing here in that the the president the the arguments that he's making now arguments that we've traditionally heard from the left over the last number of years at the fed should be more focused on allowing wages to rise worry less about whether there's going to be inflation. Yes. It is one of those strange places where you know, his populism intersects with populism on the left. I do want to say that. I I agree with the idea that this president should not becoming on this. And the main thing that might take away from from this little blow up is that he thinks this is about personalities, it's another example of him kind of boiling every controversy down to like something that he can do to another person or persons, and that seems like an unwise way to approach policy in general, and maybe policies specifically on what happened told the inflation hawks on the right of through the Obama years. We heard all this screaming that there was going to be runaway inflation, the fed was printing all this money, and it was going to turn us into Greece. Those voices have been very quiet now as a Republican president has been basically urging the actions that they were so horrified by at a time in the economic cycle where the argument is is weaker that we need low rates. I think there's still a decent argument that you can have lower rates than we have. Now. But certainly it it's weird that you don't see Republican voices saying that we need higher rates the inflation hawks on the right lost the argument the inflation doves on the right and an early indication of that was when Larry cudlow before the Trump presidency came along said, gosh, I'm persuaded by market monitor ISM kind of dovish monetary philosophy. And Larry cudlow is pretty big thought leader among some folks on the supply side, right? The former Republican candidate for governor of California Neel Kashkari became president of the Minneapolis fed. And he's been very consistent voice for dovish nece saying that look guys, let's stop looking at the unemployment rate and labor force participation. Let's just look at wages. He's been saying. Hey, wait, a second guys convincing a lot of people on the right and the left. Look what we want to see is is wage growth going to reach some unsustainably high level into there are a lot of folks were saying that when you look at the inflation target, we're treating it in a kind of asymmetric sort of way, you know, we've been falling below it for a very long time. You know, maybe we should think about actually breaching that two percent less. So that's. Yeah. When you say the inflation target is two percent. But the critique has been at the fed is treated that Moore's a two percent inflation ceiling rather than inflation target face. When when they missed they always seem to miss to the downside. Jason how is the economy right now? It feels like there's this weird disconnect the economic data mostly looks pretty good. There are some exceptions to that. We had this great jobs report on Friday, but there's a lot of nervousness in the financial markets that seems to indicate concerns that that there's going to be trouble down the road. Or maybe there's trouble now. That's just not showing up in the data. Yeah. There's this disconnected. You said the real economic data is quite good financial markets are quite worried. I'm three quarters of the way with the real data with the very important caveat that the real day to tell you about the present and financial markets are trying to predict the future. They can make a lot of mistakes in their prediction. But sometimes they're onto something and one of the things they're onto is that the near. Three percent growth that we've had this past year, not a pace of growth, we can sustain even if we don't have a recession coming off of the fiscal stimulus getting to full employment. We're not going to be able to grow at three percents going to be more like one and a half to two. And so, you know, some slowing is inevitable in any scenario. And then the markets seem to have realized that. And Kevin Hassett who is your successor. As chairman of the council of economic advisers said this week regarding Apple's announcement that it was going to miss on profits that we should expect more companies that do business in China to to also make announcements like that because of negative effects of the trade war, which would seem to me like a remarkable admission from one of the president's own economic advisers is is the policy being made directly by the administration important in terms of these economic performance numbers that we're going to see over the next couple of years or is it mostly good luck or bad luck for the president. If these numbers are good or bad. The actual economic data is eighty five percent luck fifteen percent policy. The stock market has a higher weight on policy, but could policy can affect the earnings of multinationals through a lot of channels. Like, we're seeing with the China trade war in a way that don't necessarily affect the real economy and jobs, and certainly one of the things that I think it's weighing more of the stock market than it is on the real economy is the trade war because it affects those, you know, apple earnings and all the other companies that will hear from. Ryan, I know had something. Well, there's this morality play about whether or not we ought to be messing with trade wars, and what have you? But there's another question as well. There's been this consensus among the policy community that President Trump's stimulus was mistimed. Now, I think you can talk about whether or not that stimulus was terribly well designed in terms of its composition in terms of its effectiveness, relative to what we could have seen with some other composition. But there's another possibility in this recent data suggest what if this tip stimulus was actually pretty well timed given the slowdown in global growth outside of the United States. Could it be that we actually might need further stimulus in order to avoid some kind of global slowdown. And I think that that's worth considering whatever the merits of fiscal stimulus for the year twenty or twenty nineteen to pass a permanent increase in the deficit to expand demand. Short run is, you know, particularly looney way to conduct economic policy. On a I feel like there's a little bit of a weird challenge for Democrats in discussing some of these phenomena because for example, is as we see these strong wage numbers. Come in Jay Powell, the fed chairman said on Friday that he didn't view that as inflationary which would seem to mean that the higher wages are coming out of corporate profits rather than going through as higher consumer prices that seems like excellent news for workers, but it could be negative news for for corporate profits in and the stock market, and then more broadly when we talk about this China stuff, we're very often talking about the interests of US based multinationals in the people who own those multinationals, and it's very tempting for Democrats to point to that. And see say, you know, see, the president did something, and he did something that was bad for apple profits, and you can see this bad for the economy. And now sometimes what's what's bad for apple is bad for the whole US. But the stock market is not the economy, and I feel like there's a challenge for Democrats and figuring out what's you know, when to point to the stock market as as a sign that the president is doing something wrong for everyone versus went to just say that. Just the stock market, and this doesn't necessarily mean it's a problem for the whole economy, and one thing that Democrats should say more is that the stock market like not many Americans are actually involved in it personally. I think the lasted cystic I read was ten percent of Americans own eighty three percent of stocks. So to look at the stock market. It's a barometer of some things mainly corporate. You know, how the corporate world is doing. But it doesn't have a lot to do with how individual Americans are doing. How their investments are doing? Most Americans don't have investments. Most Americans are have savings. Most Americans don't have two hundred dollars in emergency funding. And those are the people that I think Democrats need to be talking to some of them probably voted for Trump. But again, I'm going to go to to the argument that Democrats need to be talking about stability, and he'd be talking about infrastructure. Need be talking about the social safety net. Because those are the things that will outlast any ups and downs of the stock market. So Jason to close what would produce ability right now in this turbulent time in the financial markets, which may be presages a slowdown. Economically. What can the government do to provide that sort of stability? One thing that they're only got noticed this week because it happened without drama is that speaker Pelosi reinstated the so-called Gephardt role she took the debt limit as a weapon off the table. It'll automatically go up when they passed the budget. And so that's basically saying she's not gonna have a fight over the debt limit. That's not the world's most important economic policy. But it takes away one downside risk. And you know, shows that she has always been a very responsible and serious policymaker in terms of, you know, actual good for the economy hard for me to see a lot of legislation the next two year. That's good. But ultimately, yes for investment infrastructure. Sean recessional say seen it and the tax code. It's much more stable with formed pro growth in raises the revenue we need are all important ingredients chasing, Furman economist and professor at the Harvard. Kennedy School of government, I want to thank you for joining us. We have reached that time once again for famed left right and center ranch featuring pet peeves from across the political spectrum. Ryan salaam. It's your soapbox. Elizabeth Warren believes we can preserve our globe spanning alliance system while slashing the Pentagon's budget. That's a pipe dream the technologies that made the USO militarily dominant are getting cheaper. And our enemies are adopting them at a furious pace, the cost of military pay and benefits is skyrocketing. And for good reason attracting and retaining capable personnel isn't cheap. There's fat to cut at the Pentagon. But we still need more muscle on Marie Cox. What's your rent, something that listeners may not be able to predict about me is that I'm a huge college football fan incredibly passionate fan of specifically the TCU horn frogs and says the weekends. It's kind of sad for me because it's the last weekend or Monday the last day of college football for another year. It might surprise people that some of my objections to the way that college football works. Aren't based on my progressive ideals, but rather on my desire for a more free market. Which is I think we need to pay the players one of the arguments that people make against paying college athletes is that it would make for an uneven playing field and do that I would respond. This is the fourth year that Clemson and Alabama are meeting in the college football playoffs. So it's already an uneven playing field for for those teams. Let's make it more even playing field for the athletes for my rent. I want to talk about efficient markets. This isn't a term. That means markets are always right. They're not very often wrong. It's just a term that means more or less markets have already incorporated publicly available information into pricing. And because of that you can't systematically beat the market. Just by being smart. You read the economic data and understand something. Good or bad. It says about the future. Good for you. So did other market participants not all of them but enough of them. So that that information is already reflected in the price. The implication of this is don't sweat day-to-day price movements. You don't know when the market's cheaper when it's expensive when it's heading. Item or nearing top the market goes up. It goes down. You're not going to predict when that is all we have time for today. I want to thank right hunt. Salaam, Ana Marie Cox. Jason Furman, John Bresnahan, and Mike konczal left right and center is produced by Sarah Fe. Our associate producer is Rosalie Atkinson, our technical director is Jason Katie Buerskens and Colin cab, Washington, our production assistance, tied him Simon. Composed. Our theme music. I'm Josh barrow. Thanks for joining us in tune in next week, more left, right and center. Download and subscribe at KCRW dot com slash L. R see the KCRW app or wherever you find podcast left. Right and center is produced and distributed by KCRW. This podcast was made by public radio station. KCRW our status has a nonprofit enables us to make bold and unusual programs. But we need your support to keep it that way donate or become a member at KCRW dot com slash join. And thanks.

President Trump president government Nancy Pelosi Senator Elizabeth Warren Mike konczal Trump Federal Reserve John Bresnahan Ryan Salaam White House Senate President Obama DACA Josh barrow Mitch McConnell politico Hillary Clinton Roosevelt institute
2511 - Americas Fight to Liberate Itself from the Grip of the Market w/ Mike Konczal

The Majority Report with Sam Seder

1:14:51 hr | 2 months ago

2511 - Americas Fight to Liberate Itself from the Grip of the Market w/ Mike Konczal

"You are listening to a free berge of majority report with sam cedar to support this show and get another fifty minutes daily program goodridge already dot. Fm please. it is wednesday january twenty seventh two thousand twenty one. My name is sam cedar this the five time award winning majority report. We are broadcasting. Live steps from the industrially ravage honest canal in the heartland of america downtown brooklyn usa on the program. Today roosevelt fellow. Mike konczal his new book of freedom from the market. Also on the program today. The fever is not broken. Republicans in the senate show their hand in trying to block the impeachment trial. Meanwhile biden announces an order of two hundred million more vaccine doses. Hopefully turning us somewhat to normalcy. By the end of the summer day trump appointed texas judge at least attempts to halt. Biden's moratorium on deportations and the department of justice resist since the zero tolerance rule that led to immigrant children being kidnapped by the trump administration congresswoman marjorie green just twelve months out from liking on social media calls for nation of our political leaders specifically pelosi joe biden reverts to ending a federal private prison. Contracts starts moratorium on new federal oil and gas leases pension fund divest from fossil fuels. Billions of dollars. Tony blinken confirmed our next secretary of state and read it. Offers are destroying hedge funds and making some people very wealthy eliana filibuster fight in the senate just beginning as co vid. Relief negotiations continue. Us announces restoration of relations with palestinians and resumption of refugee in violent clashes continue between government forces and farmers in india. All this and more on today's majority report. Welcome ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. Emma is here with me in between her day trading That's just doing on one. Look guys saying no clears the way to go to the office today. She's like check. Read it this morning and nokia. And i'm like really maybe and then and then she's now. This is Emma has now Purchased the entire set and purchased a very small amount of kids stock. But like it's taking all of my willpower not to just refresh refresh refresh refresh. We will we're going to have somebody on in the next couple of days probably next week as explain what's happened but the long and short of it is some people on the Social media i mean i. I don't know if everybody knows what read it is But it is. I think people most people do. It is a Like a berle internet bulletin board type of situation and a little bit and there are a an investment group. They somehow figured out. And maybe this public knowledge. I'm not quite sure that there had been Hedge funds which had gone Short on specific companies in one instance. It was game stop in other words placing bets that some period down the line. The value of that stock was going to be less than it is. Now they make an agreement contract to buy it at a certain price that they perceive will be Less than it is at her. I should say that they're going to deliver them. I should say at a higher price in they can. They can get it between now. And then and some red editors went in and start buying the stock drove the price of the stock up which got other people on board which drove it up even further and These hedge funders ended up losing a considerable amount of money because they had to bow out. Essentially of of their short positions shorts expire on friday. I was just looking that up so they have to then by the stock in order to fulfill the promises they made to deliver them at a lower price right because for their investors. And so that means that if you bought a significant amount of of the game stock came stuck game stop stock. Then you're going to get bailed out by that hedge fund that you kinda lose it so incredible it's nice ac- regular people kind of taking this massive casino back. I'm sure there will be laws that preclude this in the future. But this is what people on wall street have been doing to regular people on a daily basis and now it's just been democratized because of the internet so short getting while you can. I guess putting out her stock tips every morning Lays jazz took to the sports show is going to be very busy. These days So impeachment as we said. The articles of impeachment was delivered the other day by From the house to the senate. And to yesterday ron paul. Excuse me rand. Paul brought a motion to the floor to require a vote on whether or not the impeachment trial is constitutional in and of itself and here. He is delivering that. This impeachment is nothing more than a partisan exercise designed to further. Divide the country. Democrats claim to want to unify the country but impeaching a former president. A private citizen is the antithesis of unity democrats blazingly appointing a pro impeachment. Democrat to preside over. The trial is not fair or impartial and hardly encourages any kind of unity in our country. No unity is the opposite of this travesty. We are about to witness if we're about to try to impeach a president. Where's the chief justice if the accused is no longer president. Where's the constitutional power to impeach him. Private citizens don't get impeached. Impeachment is for removal from office and the accused here has already left office. Hyper partisan democrats are about to drag our great country down into the gutter of rancor and vitriol. the likes of which has never been seen in our nation's history as it for what doing i don't know where Senator paul was during the past four years when we talk about rancor in israel but he missed that part someone someone should probably let him know what's been going on in the country and also what what led us to this point but let's hear a little bit more from him work with their new majorities in the house. The senate and the executive branch democrats are wasting the nation's time on a partisan vendetta against a man no longer in office it's almost as if they have no ability to exist exempt in opposition to donald trump without him as their boogeyman. They might have to legislate and to actually convince americans that their policy prescriptions are. The right ones democrats are about to do something. No self respecting. Senator has ever stooped to democrats are insisting the election is actually not over and so they insist on regurgitating the bitterness of the election. Okay posit that is such an obvious strowman. One democratic senator is insisting that the election is not over. The only people who democrats won the election. Yeah the only people who insisted that the election was over that there was a chance that it could be changed. Were the republicans they are the ones litigating the election for weeks and weeks and weeks and you know what it led to it led to millions upon millions of americans believing that the election was not over. And what did that caused the storming of the capitol building where five people died. This party is talking about rehashing things. They did hearings for years on benghazi when four people died and we all democrats wanted to do was. Hold this guy accountable. It's not just about removal from office. That's ridiculous if you commit a crime in nebraska you can still get tried for that crime. You can have to go back there. Just because he's left. The office doesn't mean that he can't be held accountable for his crimes. Is ridiculous strowman after straw men and the way he says it was. Such confidence is so infuriating is It's one it's it's it's sort of shocking and it's clear what's going on here When you can see what happened to the ten excuse me the eleven republicans in the house. That voted for impeachment. They are all now concerned that they're going to be primarily Mitch threats well mcconnell You know put up a trial balloon in the new york times A couple of weeks ago saying that he was happy about impeachment. Now it turns out that once that trial balloon starts to sink. He gets the sense that maybe he The republicans are not in the best position to throw off their base. And then the story. that was About mike pence who business insider reported that former vice president. Mike pence don't have any permanent residents in that they're supposedly moving from place to place at one point in the report implied that the pence's are in a precarious position and that they are a little bit concerned about staying in dc. Because of course. We know that this insurrection one of the highlights of it involved people running through the capital looking to either. I mean they were looking. They were saying they were looking to hang mike pence and they they had built a gallows so you literally have their former vice president trying to at least obscure where that he's living ostensibly afraid of. What is what is out there in terms of the the republican voting base. And you've got rand. Paul pretending that everything is just fine and we should just let bygones be bygones. He really is a stunning and well. But that is your your modern republican party. The fever i think seems to be still raging. We gotta take a break when we come back. We're going to talk to mike konczal. He is a director at the roosevelt institute. He's written a fantastic book. Freedom from the market america's fight to liberate itself from the grip of the invisible hand. We're back in just a moment with that. In the meantime today's program sponsored in part by brooklyn. I cannot tell you. I literally received Four pillowcases yesterday fabric linen. Yes that i had ordered. I love brooklyn. And i have them for my everyday sheets they are. What do you mean your everyday sheets. I don't know special occasions now. I don't know special features. I live in studio. So i have. I have backup sheets. Like if i'm behind on laundry tear terrible okay. Don't like using them as soon as they're not broken yes Folks life is too short to sleep on anything less than really sheets and brooklyn and has them started by rich and vicky who tried to find beautiful homosexuals. 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When you do you not only get the free show without commercials you get extra content in the fun half and just a reminder as well This program replays on the choice channel on the peacock app. Five pm and ten pm. Every day can check us out there a little bit of upgraded graphics. By the time we get onto You can see us on your television. Maybe on your App on your phone but Yes secretly bad. I am to my makeup then. How unsee currently Bad i am not using at all Like to welcome to the program or back to the program One of my all time. Favorite guests. Who i am so pleased now has finished his bookstore. He's going to be more available on a regular basis. Mike earns his director from the The root institute and he is now the author of freedom from the market. America's fight to liberate itself from the grip of the invisible hand. Mike welcome to the program back so all right. Let's start with with this. I mean you've created a history. Or i should say you've written history to to that in some ways a a a a reminder and to make it clear to people where we have been as a country in relationship to the market that i think has been somewhat obscured over the years. I imagine. that's why you do too but let's start with this idea of of. I want to start off. Just i with if i would give us a sense of like what of of the of of where we started or i should say what. What is this idea of market freedom. I mean we're we're we're where did this develop from so the idea of market lee Some by that were conservative. Ideology that yes. The kind of market fundamentalism that freedom should be like a market and markets. Our freedom i think as always kind of been in parts in the country but has really taken hold in the last thirty to forty years. There's a lot of reasons for that kind of some of them. General shift to the right on economics in particular is really with them. Says that wasn't just a shift about saying that markets are better at this or that Which is a very bad bad. But that markets themselves should be thought of as like the highest form of civic participation That markets have really coming to replace things like democratic Ability public goods public programs on in that this wasn't just about people trying to denigrate public privatize things or make a quick buck. That's obviously very and throw that people on the right and an increasing the centre-left during this time period really caught up with romanticism idiot. That markets are the place where we are free. We're able to express ourselves. The markets are fundamentally tomato equality winners and losers and making sure that people can't get things unless they can pay for. That person wants to sell them to it. Also in the workplace is a profound state on freedom and those arguments have been with us for centuries and you know a decade going. Started to really think about this. I was just realizing what what will lack of argument we were dealing with and i really wanted to recover this history. Put it in one place. So people can engage. Can we start with an injustice. And i want to sort of get these sort of broader themes out of the way so that we can go through these examples Some of these key examples that you give throughout American history of where we had a different relationship to the market. And and what it what it The benefits that it provided but give us give us an understanding of what neoliberalism. It's i mean we hear this term bandied about Quite a bit and often. I think it's misused in some respects but but y you outlined for us neoliberalism and there's two elements to it. I think that you how you would Define it and and so the people can get a better understanding of what. This concept is shirt so dealer. Rosen is a movement by intellectuals and political actors to reduce the ability of democracy to check the market through affirmative state programs and is the era in which they were successful in the last thirty forty years the stage of capitalism that are produced an clinical definition of the term itself. It just gets really weird in the us context because here is as background here in the united states liberal tends to mean like free roosevelt in the new deal. Big pro. big government programs were in europe and elsewhere. Tends to be more libertarian. So new libertarianism A new wave of libertarian. Thought about the timing might make it make a little bit more sense To what it's when. It's trying to describe and book has two chapters on this in the last thirty forty years and i think it was to lead today about the term. I think it's very helpful. Sometimes can get a little over two really important takeaways. One is that it is an affirmative project to remake the government to be more friendly and supportive to markets and to owners. Bosses bankers are kind of placing by the by the right instruments and the left to The thing is about Getting government out away or small government or limited government or You know but that's not actually what's happening in the chango through. I talk about some of the public parts of the economy. The public corporation of public domain the public utility and how there's a real aggressive assault by conservative intellectuals or less thirty or forty years with center left people. Help them out. Throughout many of these seconds in stripping the public out of each of those in light of a theory of how the government of the market should work on that a public domain was privatized increasing amounts of the public corporation was meant that just serve shareholders and they are very aggressive using the state in the process of that. That's what's new about it. And we see a tax laws and global trade agreements and all kinds of things that are mental limit democracy. Neither half things are important is that i'm talking about this with the public. Colleges student that people forget the colleges were free for centuries nearly free and just going through the book. i think it's a good political education but was the funding was privatized individuals in the pharmacy loans. That wasn't just solely about having this or that. Funding mechanism was meant to tell people that they should have a certain kind of expectation from the government. So the second part is that it's about creating a certain kind of citizens mental only act with marquette's with the state backing the markets. Kinda technical can abstract but abc students were. It's like it's not about education being free your education being something that should be available people who wanted it's about an investment you making yourself and you should own the risks the rewards of that. That's just fundamentally different kinds of citizenship than we've had in centuries past. I think this is really important to emphasize the notion that that. Because it that this this neo-liberalism which essentially comes out amount tolerant right In in the wake of of world war two and this idea that that the state exist to support the market because this concept to understand this concept takes us to sort of the the fundamental concept and a recognition by libertarians. That markets are constructed. And can we talk about that that that markets and property and maybe we can go to the homestead act. Where where would you would you write about that. That property is constructed. What is that. What does that mean absolutely so your house like if you own a house you don't own you think that you own the house the physical building. But you don't really the house doesn't really care about whether or not you own it or not. Sometimes it's helpful. That way really is a means of managing relationships between people that that you will your house that you can keep people from going onto it and if they tried to like sleep in your front lonner or walk in your house you can call the state tobacco data. You can sell off parts of those rights. You can rent out the basement that you can rent out basement in such a way. That they can't ain't the walls and there are ways to slice up those rights. That what you're slicing of a relationship between peel and so one thing on i talked about homestead act which is obviously a really important part of american history. Very controversial on seller colonial is one thing that makes very obvious. The people that time are very clear about is that the property that arguing about is created by the state. people don't create lab. They can only keep people on it or off of it Through various parts of through the enforcement of the state and so it's very interesting to watch that era of free labor free soil early republicans the eighteen fifties and eighteen sixties talk about small-scale property ownership land being essential to good citizenship and t people free from the market depends. Wage labor Those insights in that idea that the wherever there's marketers estate creating the terms for ensuring that contracts can be negotiated and executed moving actual property in profits across locations across territories on all these are government force. The government is always creating a market. Where people freeman. And frederick hayek starting to do in the nineteen forties. Fifties is really think in response to the new deal which is a huge shock for them. The response Social democratic movements and west not just communism. They started to think well. You know we need a program that has a theory of what the state should. We can't just say we should have a state because that's an anachronistic thing after the great depression but we do need a state that would work to limit democracy and check its ability to have markets and how market actress profit. And do what they want to do with their proper. Even though that offer is still a set of relationships among people in relation to the economy's so it's once you've read them it seems very clear if that's what they're doing but it's it's no less government action and when libertarian so there against the government don't mean it or at least they're a little bit confused as to what they're up upto right. I mean the fact. Is that a property right. There's a property right cannot exist without a government to enforce that property right. I mean it's it's really the government's enforcement that establishes that right in many respects absolutely and especially even more like so one reason why i spent a lot of time at land homes today. But it's just an interesting history. It's very different way of talking about the economy that will start here is that he said that would land and it makes sense and that's even more relevant out here in the twentieth century when we talk about things like corporations which aren't a real thing they're legal entity their legal fiction hangs over buildings and work processes and ideas and electoral property money which itself is backed by the government. The government and created much of the country like the united states. And you look at historical things that try to check that whether it's the gold standard or the neal was we live under now were they actually tried to force it. So that only private actors private profit seeking after the ones who can determine the extent of these relationships. And i mean so tell us a little bit more just from a practical standpoint of the homestead act so that people do get a sense of like what what it means what it represented at that time as opposed to that is that is different from the way that we perceive these things today so it was the timing that one hundred sixty acres of land to anyone who is willing to settle at anyone who was interested in becoming a citizen after this war including a free people and it was one hundred sixty acres. You got free. I'm you had two people get to it. And it transferred a size of land. Approximately the size of texas and california combined to settlers. This was in contrast to the frontier. And i want to be clear. Obviously it's it's built on the taking of land from native american people but the the alternative was the essential slave out to the west and this was really the five the eighteen fifties or giving it solely to resource extraction corporations and you know at this time since pre station but wage labor becoming more and more common and people are reacting to it as a state of on freedom. They don't like having bosses they don't. They're working hours control and so many people like course really a lot of the early republican party members argue that if you could get people like this that they could maintain their self sufficiency there would be markets. There people could make crops to sell to trade but they wouldn't be dependent on wage labor in the market for their survival And it's a pretty profound vision of freedom and people keep coming back to it. It's also a different way of talking about wealth now. We talked about as a theory thing or seeing that has like a disturbing this quality to it in a lot of common conversations. Were here. They understood that the wealth being created through state action was just going to benefit. How and what kind of citizenry would it. Produce and ultimately could not overcome industrialization and notably the southern to could not overcome white supremacy and terrorist violence in the south during reconstruction. It's still a powerful vision. That i think has residents out here in twenty first century into a certain extent. That's the story of much of your book visit. Admit it's like the are these were visions alternate visions of what america could me that there are very powerful forces that have a great interest in making sure that that doesn't happen he absolutely and some of them are even more on the mark. When i went into the eight hour workday a free time is the second chapter. The arguments are just very powerful across the nineteenth century. The first probable general strike in the united states was in eighteen thirty five and philadelphia four ten hour workday and the language. The workers were deployed Pamphlets and rene articles Just a really amazing here. Entering for century they're arguing that they as a people who fought in the revolution our children the revolution have natural rights to on freedom in their own free time and that no one no boss can have dominion over that and of natural rights. You wouldn't really us out here the same way but just the idea. There's something about the workplace that is fundamentally anti-democratic anti an anti freedom in the sense of it's encased with arbitrary domination and he's very compelling out here when we have people who work way too many hours to get out of poverty or can't work enough hours because there's not phone climate or reportedly for many places in service sector. They don't have control over their hours. They don't even know what their hours might be at the beginning of the week and without at you can't have communities. You can't have civil society. He can't have time with your family and friends. And i like that argument resonates so clearly out here and twenty twenty one. I think just demonstrating that people have been fighting battles literally for two centuries plus On how to control their working hours i hope. Give some ammunition hoped people fighting those top out here Let's i wanna. I wanna get into the into into social security and as well as into into medicare but maybe there's a good to to just take a slight tangent for a second and talk about you. You go over five reasons or that that freedom markets essential to being free and maybe we should just touch on that Brought up by that. That concept i mean i think he started the the book with a quote from the ten hour for the protests. And it's it is. It's just sort of shocking to see people talk about that. Which is about the relationship with work as being you know that. I i think many of us today perceive like oh well that's maybe we will evolve to that concept as opposed to from one hundred and fifty years ago or so so give us the those five reasons for freedom from markets are essential to being free. What does it mean to be free. I guess we we can start with absolutely so one of the key ones. Freedom just requires be free from arbitrary domination and any one of the key things the fifth one in the fibers. Talk about whether or not the government's on base people more or less free whether or not there's restrictions on speech movement political activity. We understand that framework. Really well for this country is more or less free but the market is just as much government creation as secret police or matt system. S incarceration or other kinds of limitations and given that the market fundamentally bound up with limiting people's activities a managing activities among people. I think it's important to understand it. As a proponent of free so just like as we said earlier there's no way to see like okay the government's over here in the markets over there and then the government's the only thing can really restrict your freedom of market's way over here way over some other place it's the same activity and so it's important to put the government's creation and execution economy under the same scrutiny. We would put for any other things. We consider about freedom whether it's religion and or privacy or so on and so forth in practice. Freedom requires from the arbitrate amish public in theory of philosophical republican theory of freedom and know in the workplace in our communities like we are subject to the decisions of others rather there are bosses whether there are major platforms that serve Online whether or not the people who may or may not pay for our healthcare even though we have insurance like they have the ability to subject us on freedom in a way that has profound has even -cations other reasons. I go through as ones that the mark. let me. just stop you there. Because the counter argument to that we would hear would be well. You've made that decision of your own. Free will have decided to forego that level of control over yourself and subject yourself to the arbitrary whim of your boss says it were because you're getting money in return. What's the what is the. Why is that not why. Why don't i have the freedom to give that up. i mean what dictates. How does that make that dynamic unfree in some way. Sure so one is that you have to work to survive under capitalism said act absolutely introduces another element to races. You need money to survive and capitalism on meet money you're dependent on the labor market unless you happen to be rich Separately and as such in order to survive. There's always someone who the boss who determines whether have access to that wage is fundamentally in a position to determine quite a bit of your life out so that's one entry point i just you know. This may seem obvious that people. I think who deal with this on a on a daily to issue but i think for a lot of americans the we don't realize that that is a choice that has been made not necessarily by off us. It's a choice that we have been born into on some of them. And it's also a choice that we make to perpetuate that because we have societies all around us in the world where those survival and this is obviously what you write about here. Is that those necessities that you need to live. Let's say Housing and food and health care There are places where you don't need to work to have the and you can enter into that agreement to give up control of yourself to your boss. Without that sort of coercion of not having the necessities available to you exactly the murky relations build the coercion right into into the labor contract. And as such places where you can have better worst relationships between workers bosses and let's be clearly throughout our history head even nominally free mark like free. Labor contracts like huge abusive feudal relationships. You talk a little bit about this about how you know for a longer time especially before the wagner act and the new deal on labor contracts were kind of futile. I'm like you chose. The worker absorbed all the responsibility of they were. They ended up disabled as a large number of people didn't nearly twentieth century. You know there is a cost of workers head bear them. They couldn't be hired away. You can either job early. It kind of evolved out of almost master surf relationships of feudal air and by bets. Not there's a way to introduce democracy in tibet relationship that i think is essential for freedom. And if you walk down the things like health for instance. Lake us being healthy as part based on our born. It's part based on choices. Make but it's also in part based on the environments where the access to information we have and the resources we have and talk a lot about this in the book. The creation of the idea of social insurance is that there's a level of security against well. So we know we relied on capitals voice. We also know that there are periods. When we can't secure that were too young we disabled. We can be sick when you come to all or were engaged in caregiving labor which isn't compensated capitalism There's a way to ensure against that in the literal sense of insurance that the government is the best at carrying out in terms of its scale and efficiency and making sure that everyone has access and you becomes a little bit about how the that becomes predetermining the freedom that your ability to be secure in those periods when you're unable to work on is reflected through the government's ability to provide income and insurance at scale and way the interest everyone included so little. I mean we talk about that sort of notion of of of what it would take to be to to not allow the market to dominate us. And i do want to get to some of these like the daycare. Example that you provide but let let's also. This is a good time. I think to define capitalism because you know in this era there is i think a very pre particularly i think i'll be. Sanders has been in our up so a loom so large in our politics two cycles. Now there's been a sort of a focus on the definition of socialism. But but but i'd like you define capitalism where where does like what encompass what constitutes capitalism in your mind to what extent is that sort of capitalism exist if you have markets that are not subsuming so much of our freedom shirts. Yeah it's been funny how there's been all these very large fights often within a lot about what is socialism like it's bernie sanders socialism in sweden socialist and not enough about like what capitalism is like what is actually capitalism. It was part of the fight over the sixteen nineteen project as when they hinted that we should understand slavery as a proto capitalist systems that had prophets and financial instruments and certain kinds of record keeping and people thought about that but it's also like okay like what his actually capitalism sometimes people use this kind of functional lake. Well thor's banks and corporations that there's private profit-seeking which ultimately gets to it. There's a couple of different definitions the one that book really Engages with and what i think is really important for this story is something coined off by a historian. Elwood's argument about market dependents capitalism's where we are most were. We are dependent on the market for the location of goodson society. And you can take pictures. Basically to the extent that you are able to survive and thrive it depends on the ability of market actors to allow at the relationships to carry it out the dependency reversibility of market freedom. That markets like cool place to thrive Because it's well it's also a place where if you can't work you're in trouble or if you are sitting have pre existing condition without regulations like you are in trouble so i liked that relationship that it's alternately. Means that a market is the thing that is determining the allocation of all the key goods and our society and it also provides way which democracy is a check on that so you can have mark markets existed before capitalism markets exist in whatever happens five hundred years from now and something else in place other than capitalism wherever that might be on and trading for goods and prophet dependence of markets as the and also. I really emphasize almost immoral. Determine it of who should get what not just the allocate of reality. I think that is one. Is i think your definition that helps us get sensitive slope of capitalism and also. I think what school are most are most resistance against you always see how socialist if you have an iphone and that's something like that and it's like well no like there are things that markets are very good at getting to people like Technological advances other things quite capable at like cara labor and retirement security and health care and control of your hours and it allows you to engage in critical discourse. That doesn't get tripped in lake. Whether or not you should have like a fancy gadget or something is that from. Your perspective is more helpful to to define capitalism versus. Let's say socialism. Or i mean. Do we have a. Is there the apps if like a fifty one percent forty nine percent and that's that binary and we cross some threshold and we're we're not capitalist or I mean that it starts getting very nebulous in there like when we talk about like you say the scandinavian countries or or european for european countries. I mean where or are we just on some type of continuum a is is that just is the one continuum too narrow of a plane I i think there's a continuum in many different directions both in terms of when which raise the markets are in our lives. I like i think of it. Continues correct compass reading closer further away from something and if we're getting closer to market dependency ambi rule of market logic. Is that a good direction within the space. And you know you can see even in the last year you look at what's happened to workers in california where even the pro labor conditions that agreed that adhere people are now more dependent because these like a contingent worker clauses and things like that that that have passed that that i mean it's bad in the context that makes them even more dependent on the market for what they secure even things like a minimum wage or various forms of anti-aging. I look at Campaign finance which is democracy the more dependent on market actors record logic on and you like you suddenly start to see it in a in a lot of different ways and i think it's the way it shows up across fear sears. I think helps us understand a little bit. Better wets what we're trying to get away from. Okay so let me tell us the example of daycare In fall in world war two. Because i i really wanna get to this into medicare Are medicaid in what it did in terms of like integrating the the southern hostile. But yes so the story. I a little bit about was so fascinating. Dig into essentially that You know we mobilized in conscripted so many men during world war two and we're at such a high pressure economy on. There's so much work that needs to be done particularly factories that women were sent into the workforce very rapidly and women had always been increasing workforce participation twentieth century but here going into government work in any factory and industrial work was sectors of the generally we had not been working previously. And those were you know high income especially time very high income but many had children. And no one to watch that and so As part of the mobilization the government dumped a bunch of money into daycares for workers in government wartime facilities that They essentially created them with any ear. It's crazy to see the scale of it. Hundreds of thousands of kids in good daycares within a year year and a half. Plus by the time it's like fully up and running and Really good impressions on them like the the surveys were bad. People were resisted the idea of using them but the want to use them. They enjoyed them. And benefited from them. A beak component of it. That i thought was really talent. Very relevant for our debates rate out here and twenty twenty one is up until that point daycare. It essentially been a form of stigmatize charity. they would even think committed stigmatized are than we think of it as like their job in providing daycare for women needed him was that they were like they either directly social workers and social work like activity when us like the make. Sure mountains behaving well keeping case files and doing interviews and essentially acting as opposition agents to the to the family structure. We're here in world war. Two military had no interest in being social workers. They wanted bombers and And so they were like if you can show up at work. We will absolutely give daycare. We don't want means test this. We don't wanna keep records on you. And that was a transformed of policy for the people who were able to insert the women were able to use it because it just removed the state mile just showed how well program can work when they wanted to. there's also a lot of opposition to ranging from social workers to Church should have to moderates and so they fought to keep them going and ended up keeping them going for a few years and someplace to the longer notably in california and but fight is a very interesting full of all kinds of arguments about how diggers allowed women to have the freedom of choice dot structure fountains way. They want and it's a really cool history very relevant sadly out here. Why is it that we can only provide something like that. If you know it is to pay for bombing people or fighting people. I mean right. I mean like we do things right when we want to so like you know the total warranties broke there. You have the stigma around poverty and stigma around generalship. Translate the war. Required being flexible patriarchy in the war effort required being flexible having large programs. That could continue themselves if they wanted. And i think it's only like a little bit like the cares act in the pandemic where you're paying people over one hundred percent unemployment insurance replacement rates Crazy times allow for policies to breakthrough. And that's question whether or not you continue that refined the coalition of build on them. Talk about the this element of medicare funding to desegregate southern hospitals. This is fascinating this dynamic between providing this type of of semi universal. I guess program and its implications not just in terms of of economics but but race or i think it shows that dynamic between the two so the presence from try to get single payer healthcare it was defeated and one of the things i did was just dump a bunch of money in hospital Construction these federally funded hospitals all across the south to make up for disinvestment in healthcare and during the great depression notably at also the war and those federally funded. Private hospitals remained desegregated until nineteen sixty five. This is a decade plus after brown which should have required author funded institutions to desegregate. It was a year after the civil rights act which prohibited by definition but one of the titles segregated facilities in in public accommodations and also thinks that receive federal funding yet. Southern hostels remained segregated. They refused in many cases or more importantly they were dragging out the process and and kind of just lying saying that they were doing stuff that they weren't and it wasn't until the issue of medicare funding which was going to redefine the funding landscape. Frost united states came into being that was actually in a position to force change something. Legal scholars note that. I did not actually know her. Research book was that Actually desegregate many many schools in the south because the courts are very good at holding privilege and power. But they're really bad at dismantling they don't control funding. They rely on elite actors to carry out the work. There's great call the hallowed about this and see your ability to rely of course to dismantle things like weights ramsey's actually be kind of limited reinforcing that they're really bad limited it wasn't till the civil rights act and the movement that could really have mechanisms included administrative capacity and money to force change. And then you know like punitive penalties and so the people who stood up medicare did in addition to just getting washed years. Totally crazy if you went through the the twenty teens. They literally medicare up and running with that one year When icing universal programs they mailed everyone basically punch cards saying. Do you want this. Tell us you know. Confirm you live here. Do you want heartbeat of one choice. Yes or no. It's three dollars. And then you've got medicare as opposed to a website that needs to coordinate one hundred thousand different things So that's A very interesting thing. But more importantly from the stories that the people who stood up the civil rights portion medicare where people veteran fighters of the civil rights battle who worked with community activists and by medical professionals to create a network of people who went out and ensured that hospitals desegregated and the ones that didn't were threat with funding and All virtually all of them before and then all of them after back down and medicare the threat of not getting medicare funding. Forced desegregation is a very happened in a very quick pace and happened with the certainty that you would not have gotten through random lawsuits or just trying to wait it out for public pressure. You believe the government to provide for ram really doesn't shirk can if it wants to ensure that everyone has access to it. It's fascinating to me because as as you talk about the the power of affirmative action by the government into the market and its ability to sort of change. Which would would seem like a bank shot right. I mean it's one thing to say like you're going. Take you know we have an opportunity for you to take medicare patients. And it's another to say that we're going to change the The your your exclusion of certain group of people through medicare Payments there there's this dynamic of like the invisible hand is really not invisible as much as it is obscured right And it's just It is it is hiding. What's agenda is whereas the government is at least Were explicit about that. Agenda is we can see what it is and then theoretically at its best democratically determined on some level absolutely. That was one of the most pernicious things about crows. Ways intermingled civil society and a white civil society and private actors and politics profit-seeking actors and the government is the background right so all these hospitals in the south where public private partnerships are not legally. They were receiving public money in the sense that they were getting. Mount employer provided health care. Which is a tax expenditure. They were seeking funding that they were treated as private employer to ensure that the federal government could not get in the way through the federal funding components. On and you're the courts are very slow course with the hospitals and it's It's the the ability of public program to cut through that mess of self-reinforcing solution. I think is really powerful. Points to what programs can do now. We want have also designed to not do that to it can just paint it out or with they were really worried about was then just saying like oh you know like promises. In five years you'll get and then they. Of course you know four and a half years later for a waiver this is like the real worry and so there's ways that public programs can also reinforce it if you don't actively make choice not to just have a minute or two here and i know that so much of your work has come out of your experience in the occupy movement. Which now must do i guess. Ten years ago and We give me a sense of where you think where we're headed. I mean like when the biden administration are there are there green shoots as it were or some indication where you have optimism where you see or or maybe better phrase what do you think is the most important thing that we're seeing that could lead to more aware of this relationship with the market. Cats really good question so through. Twelve years has has a politically in particular. Who has a couple of a few things one is that it seems like. There's a lot of movement towards moving faster and bolder and more publicly than simply through private actors. So you look at the big top offs in direct checks individuals and unemployment insurance in particular. I think have been very encouraging I think the fact that the you can talk about ego talking about like lowering medicare age extending the public option or trying to find. Better ways to leverage medicaid are more public programs than solely trying to work through the private actors the exchanges and how the balance out. Good question for me most important. Is that the moment some full employment. I think you know we look back at two thousand nine. Two thousand ten the move. That was predetermined really to go to australia. It wasn't just allocates that forced that one. I think people understood what our big mistake it was on one hand and then on the second hand even twenty sixteen people that time understood. Like there's a big fight about whether or not four and a half percent. Five percent was full employment whether or not the economy had recovered as much as it was going to and twenty sixteen. She kind of just be okay with that. And you know in two thousand nineteen unemployment got below four percent for me year or two. I was at three and a half percent for six months before kobe. That's shocking to people who live in. I have been very bullish. Unemployment could get very low. And i was like even shocked by it so i think the sense that there was a real fun way about the two most important questions about the scope of the ability of the government. React and the how far you could get towards full full employment then spectacles. Those wish pretty hard. I think people really wanna make up for that. Which i'm encouraged by my console. The book is freedom from the market. America's fight liberated cells from the grip of the invisible hand. Really fascinating stuff. Thanks so much for joining us folks break be right back a. I spoken to him for another hour. So much there there's so much So much in there that In that book that i think is is a really important read for folks and his point about this broad elite consensus. Not even a leaf consensus. I think he conceded that he he shared in some of that in terms of what the lowest rate of unemployment we could have was without sort of the economy overheating. It's good. We're going to see that in the way that the fed reacts to the two two things in the idea that we can continue to to put money into the economy as a government until people are recovered from what has been in an enormous economic shock. And i think the other thing that he didn't have a chance to talk about was the the the the there was a broad elite consensus about the concept of of deficits in debt. Which i think has also gone by the wayside. all right. that's it for us today. We'll be back with more tomorrow. See then and those sticking around. I gotta talk to counsel for another week. We'll have them back on soon. But i can't recommend that book more really important to both like i'm excited to read it. I am you know it's important to get these concepts of stuff that that show the bounds of what we can do. And what we have sustained in real time but it also i think people to understand this relationship with the market and the you know the i loved the idea to of of sort of getting a sense of what constitutes capitalism because there's it's so binary in our conversations that we have in this day and age as to you know that there's some massive divide let's say between elizabeth warren saying that she's a capitalist to her bone which was obviously a little bit of a sop and and bernie sanders. You know Saying he's a socialist. I mean the differences between or not so dramatic. And i think some socialist would say well. That's because bernie sanders not actually a socialist and whatnot but the real question is like a at least in the context of where we are at this day and age. What constitutes capitalism and what parts about. It are problematic. I think you know that notion of having to enter the market with this sort of coercion is a big is a big part of it. It is in the way that you deal with. That is due to deka. Modify some if not all of these things that we need to exist and Mean i think the inflation of markets with capitalism is unhelpful. As short way of saying that. And yeah the coercion and that goes back the wage system. I mean i just reading that seventeen. Ten diary of the flavor Bird the second he like wages are something you give to the servants who aren't slaves and that's like i don't know that that system is basically where we're at still these days and i don't know i think particularly in the context of the we talk about with astra taylor student loan debt. I mean a lot of these structures of control They're just more mass and then they used to be but it's it's the same kind of impulses of power basically you know. We didn't have a chance to get to that with him. but he's got some great He he does some great writing on that dynamic of the difference between The the the difference in enco were you know the coercive relationship between Having access to university that does not saddle you with that. vice versa. I mean we talked about that sort of slightly other terms. Like you say with with astra taylor but So much of it is about the relationship between the players within the market right you enter the market and you already have healthcare and you enter the market and you already have a housing view entered the market and you already have the option of an education that does not burden you with that you enter the market and your your. Your children are cared for when you go to work. It changes the relationship between you selling your labor and the person who's purchasing it and and that and look we know come in and and this is what the neo-liberal project really is about is on the other side of that ledger from people. Who are buying your. Your labor government does many things to ease or to to add to their bargaining power by providing limited liability in terms of when you enter these market either requiring or not requiring certain working conditions that you must provide maybe providing infrastructure for your business in a way like you know building. The roads for a corporation that is selling a product is the functional equivalent of free daycare for a parent. Who's going in to negotiate their contract with that company. You know is is really just sort of like you. Know what is that dynamic between those two entities that enter into the market and it is way out of whack. Kovic revealed a lot of that with all the Concern last summer about. Are we paying too much to people in this covert relief to make them. Stop going to work right. That's the fundamental thing. We're concerned about and increasingly. I am convinced that this is sort of an obscured part of the healthcare debate that it is. I mean yes. Insurance companies. stand to make a lot of money but you know I think it was matt bruning. Who pointed out like this is not a massive industry you know. It's like a thirty billion dollar annual industry. Isn't that a massive industry that it should have this type of power in of itself. there's also there's also the hospitals and the providers doctors. But i'm also convinced that there is a hidden incentive for particularly for for large corporations but broadly speaking that it it It adds a certain amount of control and power in that negotiation between the The worker and the The owner the manager When you're healthcare's depending on your health care is dependent upon it and And i think that is. I think that concept is a little bit obscured in that debate. Like that that notion of because i. it's always mystifying. People like i don't understand why corporations lining up to have the government pay for healthcare and to a certain extent part of that is because well it may free up folks to be a little bit more I guess picky and have a little more power in that negotiation. All right we gotta take a break head into the fun half of the program. We went long today. Just a reminder. It's your support that makes a show possible can become a member at join. The majority report dot com. Also today on the no miki show and is now miki's birthday it is yes it is. I just texted her fourth show. Gosh wow no maki happy birthday. I hope she hears that today. On the no. Mickey show brendan o'connor jordan. Zach aren simon narrowed. Maybe i'm not pronouncing that correct. You can watch her at three pm on youtube or on twitch twitch dot tv the underscore no miki underscore show. I just like giving now on out. Also don't forget. Check out the antibiotic can find it on twitch dot tv slash dante fata. They're doing like two or three streams a week now on the intifada and you can find patriotic dot com slash the anti fodder matt yeah literary hangover folks as i mentioned the secret diary of william byrd the second did his seventy nine and trees Check that out interesting stuff there. We also talk about his relation to a descendant or an ancestor of George washington and robert e lee. You know how they kind of as prayer points out that's an incestuous slave aristocracy there and we go into a colorful character that those guys descended from so check that out. Any podcast feed you like i. Six four six five seven thirty nine twenty is the number. We're going to head into the fun half we also can. I am the show people ask. How do i am the show. will you pick up. The app majority app dot com. It's free can use it on your iphone or your your android. 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The Roaring 20s

Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump

44:30 min | 2 weeks ago

The Roaring 20s

"Though i look like sosa my career in my whole career. I am a socialist. Joe biden didn't begin his candidacy wanting to be a transformational president. Americans aren't looking for evolution. they're looking for. Tell me how you're going to help me with my healthcare. Tell you to make me safer. Before corona virus existed. He situated himself on the right of the primary field. He embraced centrism as both governing doctrine and a political strategy he contemplated cutting deals with republicans wistfully recalling his early days in elected office when the senate was club. Your place even told donors not to worry. His plans wouldn't ask too much of them. Biden spoke at a private fundraiser earlier. This week and told the big donors that he didn't want to demonize the wealthy and added that under his presidency. No one standard of living will change. Nothing will fundamentally change. Something fundamentally change though as the faces record daily coronavirus deaths. The cdc predicts over eighty thousand. More people could die from the virus. The end of january learn more than thirty. Three million americans have lost their jobs in seven weeks. The unemployment rate soaring to nearly fifteen percent the highest since the great depression after corona virus spread unchecked through the country and the economy collapsed. The noise is out of the biden campaign took on a decidedly different tone by may of last year. His advisors cast aside their. Don't rock the boat mantra in favor of a new one. The biden would plan. Fdr sized presidency that makes buying the only democrat. I can think of who tack to the center during the primary then to the left during the general election campaign rather than the other way around but there was good reason for it would have been very strange effaced with the trauma of a once. A century pandemic biden's platform and rhetoric. Didn't change at all the. How much did it change. What's biden so-called build back better plan and if it passes will be enough to place him in the pantheon of great presidents or in the face of the gravest national crisis in decades when we look back and say he should have thought bigger. My guest this week is mike konczal. He's director of progressive thought at apple. Enough the roosevelt institute and author of the new book freedom from the market. He's given a lot of thought to what this moment in history demands of the government and whether biden's biggest plans for the future meet those demands. I'm brian boiler welcomed rubicon mike konczal. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me on so let. Let's start by setting a baseline for listeners. What were your general thoughts during the democratic primary Book before corona virus arrived and after about the candidates attention to put the country on a different better trajectory. And i'm thinking particularly of joe biden on the one hand and it was with warren and bernie sanders representing the other poll. It's interesting because you know so much changed. Obviously after kobe. Both for our lives but also for the policy discussions so you know before that the economy was humming along pretty well having you know. President trump had inherited a very good economy. Bolstered it with more spending and unemployment had gotten below four percent for about two years with with unemployment getting low. The question really became about more systemic problems. Things like massive inequality things climate change things like racial equity. These kinda like really big meta questions and then with kobe. Those questions still were on the table but survival and getting people through a really difficult pandemic was also moving along with that. So i take it then that from your perspective. The candidates with the most responsive answers to what the country needed before corona Were in the further to the left of the field and then after coronavirus situation kind of became a little bit. More jumbled because there was this pressing need to address the crisis. Yeah absolutely and i think. Once once joe biden won the nomination in march april two really notable things happen that. Ah i think are very interesting. Especially if you're a political junkie one is that biden. The candidate move much further to the left on policy. His promises became much more bold and aggressive. Part of that. I think was because the needs were so great and 'cause big things were happening and needed to happen in response to a coronavirus. In second that i think people understood that it was a pretty historic moment That whoever was going to the presidency in late twenty twenty Was gonna walk into an economy that needed to be rebuilt and that a lot of really deep problems With the way we arrange work in care and the long term survivability of our economy up those we're going to have to be addressed in pretty fundamental way. So i think there's a sense from him in his team that he wanted to be a new deal moment. You heard that a lot and mid twenty twenty to say that he was light on policy. I think that might have been true early on this as someone who who ran against joe but tonight a very very different speech that emphasized that we do need a new new deal and second sometime in the fall late summer he proposed something called build back better which was a pretty sweeping reinvention of of climate of manufacturing trade and care work. But i don't think it got the attention that it probably deserved a lot of reasons for this the craziness of of the campaign and trump himself a lot of that mainstream coverage. Didn't really take biden's proposals as seriously as they should have. Because you know. A lot of experts were saying. Joe biden's plans to spend five trillion dollars next year and twenty twenty one and so far. He has spent two trillion with the american rescue plan. And the bill back better proposal that is being floated right now three trillion dollars so a lot of the stuff was choreographed. Well in advance. So i don't think a lot of people quite caught how historic it was so you know correcting for coronavirus living through pandemic and everything else sounds even pleasantly surprised about where biden landed on the big questions. Yeah absolutely. I think we should take them and really understand how important the american rescue plan was. There is a lot of pressure from moderates to roll back the scale of it on the assumption that it recovery might happen too fast or it might be so fast that becomes distorted or like a lot of people reenacting two thousand nine and twenty tens era economic advice. Which was that like. Don't go fast like keep it keep balanced in mind and i feel like a lot of democrats got burnt by that though. It's very easy for a white house to derail that back kind of bold agenda the fact that they kept the headline number and the ambition at the scale and did not roll it back now. A lot of people who were following the american rescue plan in january really did think it was going to lose. A third of its value. Or that senator mansion or some others. You can take a huge bite of it. Did get rolled back in certain ways most notably the senate parliamentarian unfortunately removes minimum wage from it but the level and scale that went through a still think is just a total one eighty from the last time. Democrats found themselves in the situation. Let's talk about the question of legacy It's obviously premature to talk about the legacy nine weeks into the administration. But i've been thinking about how all these things add up to a potential for him to be entered into the pantheon a great presidents or did not arise the moment in terms of ingredients He needs to understand the challenges. The country faces correctly. He needs to propose. Solutions that match the challenges and then he needs to execute writings getting passed by congress and implement well and to dial back the clock to before the rescue plan. The first thing that made me think he was laying a good foundation for all. That was the way that he and his advisors didn't didn't talk about deficits Did that surprise you. What did you of the departure from the sort of prior conventional wisdom if you watch the way. Democrats had fought against the trump tax cuts in late. Two thousand seventeen. you'll notice. There's really conscious effort to make sure that it wasn't that. Donald trump is ransoming. Our future are these. Tax cuts are terrible. Because we can't afford that. It was that there really unfair. They go to people who already have way too much That was done by a lot of work by activists and scholars to really say. We need to think about where that does not matter. We should not always have this kind of hysterical reaction to it I think a lot of the debt A lot of the people who were trying to prioritize deficits really overplayed their hand during the obama years that you were going to have a real crisis the collapse in governance within a few years unless president obama did a grand bargain and did all these other kinds of things which did not happen then. We did not have a crisis. Interest rates still remain low for the rest of the decade. So there was already some work built into that that said i think thinking the language president biden and people around him are using things. Like we can't do too much we can do to little. We can do to little sputter that implies that things like full employment matter a lot more than just worrying about the deficit that it does reflect a real change change. That had been happening for a while but it doesn't happen until it happens and one of the reasons. There is so many problems in the early parts of the obama. You're on this. Is that a lot of that. History came from within the white house. And we're not seen at this time. And i think that's really important. I mean to. The contrary. Joe biden himself. Talks about deficits is something that we should welcome as long as there is need in the country in interest rates are low and i just i have not heard that kind of you. Basically like straightforward pragmatic thinking about what deficits are for about of Democratic leaders for my whole adult life so it really struck me as a departure. I take your point that There was a lot of put in by scholars and activists to get there. I was just sort of taken with the fact that it it landed in the and here. You have the president-elect talking about running deficits to help people yeah as an investment which they are which is the right way to think about it and it's also politically like people understand when you talk about deficits as investment especially at this moment where we need to rebuild so much. Yeah but so the the carlisle that is. How confident should we be that. This is a permanent change in in thinking not one that will give way to the old thinking once the crisis has passed. So i think what we're we're talking about moments like these like in tony and you want to think about recovery reform as two distinct enterprises that often pull in different directions. And so i think you know a person by very clear. He wanted a recovery bill and a reform bill and the recovery. Bill is passed the american rescue in. It's it's good. It's like it's important at the scale of the challenges and the scale of the problem which is not normally how we've seen things happened in the last couple of decades the fact that you have a president netting policy explicitly on the idea that unemployment should be low. People should be able to find jobs. We should run the economy at a strong in even heated positions on definitely a legacy in if it works and i believe it will. I think it will change that conversation for the better However that is limited in the context of you know were no longer in this whole that we had from the pandemic. The real legacy will be in reform and there i. The vision is on point. Here's what mike means. When he says reform like generally used that term to describe overhauls of or improvements to discrete areas of policy healthcare reform financial regulatory reform. It's not normally how we describe emergency bills like the american rescue plan or infrastructure spending bills as the build back better framework has been described but beyond dispensing cash to pay for roads and bridges and rural broadband. Build back. Better will likely include. Permanent changes to how government subsidizes health insurance and childcare and protects labor and the environment. It will change how the government works for people you know reform on this question of the political viability of this better new thinking about deficits the old conventional wisdom was That you know quote unquote. Fiscal responsibility was essential because the government needed to have spare capacity in the event of a crisis and the pandemic showed up and and taught us how backwards that was right but like we had no trouble shoveling trillions of dollars out the door when people were need but we were also able to see how much better things might have been if the government hadn't been stripped of parts over decades So that to me adds up to a pretty strong public case that the old thinking was wrong but i can still sort of very easily imagine how the old cw might come roaring back right if republicans start pretending to care about deficits again in the business lobby joins them in reporters echo it and then moderate democrats start to lose their spines the little and then the biden administration caves and subtler were right back to twenty eleven or something like that. Are you worried about that at all. Yes i am. I am worried is definitely something i mean. I think people forget how strong the the moment of early two thousand nine was and how quickly it crumbled asked two years. There's a lot of things that are different about that right now. But they're still the potential for attacked. Come roaring back in a bad way. A couple of things. I think will be a couple signs of optimism One is that it doesn't seem to be coming from the white house which is good a lot of the people in the white house. People like other Bernstein help cut their teeth. During the obama years and understanding what a week recovery it was and the elected like chuck schumer and many others have talked about how they got it wrong in the early twenty tens that they were too worried about the deficit. Not worried enough about a swift recovery. Not realizing that the swift recovery does help a lot with the debt. because the economy grows debt-to-gdp ratios fall. People are working with generating more economic activity. Which is better for taxes. And i think there's a leadership understands one that they got it wrong. They got the relative weighting of those two issues wrong and to the cynicism of the republicans in the kind of the the hypocritical way that they use the debt and deficit during the obama years versus when they were in office and from the sidelines. Like you can see that. That was very obvious they would do that but i do. Think a lot of elected felt actually pretty betrayed by that particularly by the size and scale of the trump tax cuts which was probably about a trillion trillion. Half more than people thought might have been in the first couple of days of the trump era so those things add up and people do have memories on this and so. I think that is a sign of strength that this might endure and separately. A strong recovery will matter a lot and if we have big job growth rest of the year you know like that's elected seen something work which is ultimately how things continue is by seeing them work. Yeah this point of the key. Democrats being snake bit by By the sort of republican bayton switch on all this stuff to sort of pretend care about deficits when democrats are in charge in you immediately revert when a republican wins in you revert. Right back Without ever bothering to explain yourself. I feel like i'm surprised in a way at the extent to which that just explicitly. How democrats talk about it now. We are not going to be fooled again. in that i think kind of ironically. The presence of trump is the sort of defeated but not fully vanquished foe makes it hard for republicans Because they can't sweep him under the rug the way they did george w bush and put together a new band of young guns and then say we just lost our way under trump. So now we're getting back to our true roots of being fiscally responsible conservatives and demanding that joe biden tighten his belt and all that stuff democrats seemed to have learned their lessons but republicans seem surprisingly unable to execute their own strategy of just ping pong between carrying about deficits and not caring about it. Yeah definitely there's no equivalent of paul ryan or someone who Or the center of the intellectual energy being around the idea that you need to radically scale back government spending in the way the ryan plan did. It's we talked about. The ryan plan is kind of like a punchline now solid sort of silly because they got in office and they couldn't do any of it except cut taxes But at the time in twenty like it was a big deal like they wanted to privatize social security. They tried to head underbush. To block grant medicare or medicaid. They wanted devout tries. Medicare the wendell functionally would caught an pullback. The amount of support government gives people and you know when we look at the economy. Now like people need medicaid especially rural voters who are. Gop really relies on a people in the upper midwest. Republicans are thinking maybe might be able to make up some of their losses. Aren't excited about you. Know getting rid of social security or the freedom that will come if no one's on medicare and his left a real intellectual vacuum that's being filled by these nationalists in oftentimes racists who are not sure what they think but. It's definitely not the libertarianism of someone. Like paul ryan. Yeah all right. So the so biden in the key players have the fiscal mindset downright the political mindset downright every for now He passed the rescue plan. We know what's that So what's in build back better. And how does it fill out the picture beyond just being three trillion on top of the two trillion. So it's a little bit of flocks about what's actually in it but it's pretty clear is built around a couple of pillars and one is climate change as an opportunity to invest and build a new manufacturing innovative economy. Last year. they were talking about one trillion dollars for climate That was really targeted towards actual investments and jobs. And you know real things on the. Maybe that number has gone down. Probably a big fight about that with climate groups than others but still a central priority for this bill and not just climate as in terms of getting price right or just trying to like tinker with incentives or creating a trademark but really about investments and rebuilding innovative manufacturing base Climate is a kind of industrial policy and fighting carbon fighting decarbonization. Fighting climate change as a type of industrial policy is definitely. I think something is self conception of how joe biden wants the economy to work better and i think will be very popular for people when climate itself is not always most popular things. I think that's a really cool. And i think it's very important part of it and that obviously would be legacy enduring like enduring right there. The second is the care economy and you know. Obviously there's a lot of that had been a focal point for years but in this past twelve months you know how vulnerable people are. How vulnerable are elderly. Our how children are how we don't often have a lot of support offer families when things go bad you know that kind of care work has been becoming more and more central and i think covid really put it over the edge there. You're gonna see things like A universal pre-k making the child tax credit. The american rescue plan permanent things like expanding off free community college but also things like expanding home based and community based care. President biden has talked about The difficulty of caring for a loved one. How economically insecure makes you to do that kind of labor which is really important for families and trying to ensure that there's money and resources there for that so If that works if that passes you know putting a firm foundation under our care economy end approaching it just as much of an infrastructure project as climate in manufacturing and railroads and everything else really understand it as a type of infrastructure our economy needs would also beaten legacy behind coming up. What will it take for build back better to pass in congress and how would it address the shortcomings of the new deal. Great society and obama era reform programs when we returned rubicon is brought to you by stamps. Dot com the postal service. It's great finding time to go to the post office. Not always in the cards. The good news is you can mail in ship online at stamps. dot com stamps. dot com allows. You to maitland. 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I n k b e v dot com slash rubicon. Welcome back to rubicon. My guest is my console. He's the director of progressive thought at the roosevelt institute and author of the new book freedom from the market. We're talking about biden's three trillion dollar economic plan known as build back better which would fund infrastructure projects across the country. Green jobs pre k. Community college and child and elder care. There's talk of paying for For bill back better at least with some new high end tax increases and stricter tax enforcement. How important is that piece of it. politically in substantively so substantively. We're gonna see how interest rates due in the And inflation dozen the next year. My sense is that interest rates will go up a little bit in normalized as they should i and that there'll be some periods of small sectoral. Inflation is just things. Come back online and herky-jerky way but i'm not worried about sustained pressure nature. Those i think spending money on infrastructure particularly climate infrastructure should be debt financed in the same way you could imagine there being climate government on like green bonds that kind of mentality. This is an investment and s such like many investments in addition to your house You know debt financing that is appropriate so that that's my baseline however on the other hand you know there is a real problem with income inequality and there is a good opportunity to ensure that the rich are paying a fair share that they're taxed an equitable way. That's like just following the rules on the buck are properly enforced and that you know having them tax more pay into the this really important part of what. Our economy needs is also very appropriate. I'm because of the. The press is structured because of the class bias in a lot of that stuff There's a really intense debate about whether or not if you're rich if you make a hundred grand a year or four hundred grand a year and that goes back and forth and what. I would really emphasized to listeners. Is that whatever you make of that kind of argument once you get above wherever you draw that arbitrary line. There is so much money that even just reasonable small-scale increases in taxation would net trillions of dollars You joe biden's as a candidate proposed series of things. I will raise taxes for anybody making over four hundred thousand dollars. The very wealthy should fe fair share corporations should pay a fair share if we just took the tax rate back to what it was when bush was president top rate paid thirty nine point six percent in federal taxes. That would tune in thirty billion dollars. Now they're being reworked now and they're basically lining up and the estimates at the time were that you could raise three to four trillion dollars on stuff that taxes wealth. It's not a technical wealth. Tax like senator warren in senator sanders up proposed but it does raise money from wealth and and the wealthy and corporations in such a way. That would be really equitable like most of it would fall in the top point one percent of incomes and you could raise trillions of dollars. That would do a lot to build a more just economy. So the way. I'm kind of envisioning this snazzy of this three trillion dollar package you have a tax plan. That probably won't raise exactly that amount But that's wise because you should debt finance the long term climate investments in. You should think of the other half bill better as redistributive so you kind of want to bounce it off with higher end tax increases together. This may be served as a hedge against inflation whether the risk of that is higher low and then the third piece of it is You also have an answer in the event that Deficit fearmongering comes back That like we're not spendthrifts. We have this plan to address are are spending by repealing. Some of the trump tax cuts. Yeah exactly and i think we should not be afraid of taxes like this. I think the immediate spending goals can come from the rich. They've been rewarded generously by the economy over the past decades appropriate. That they now pay more and pay more for things that we desperately need in our society. Those taxes. I do not have a harmful effect on our economy. There's a question of politically too hard to pass those taxes than we shouldn't be afraid we still should tackle climate change and we should still ensure that we have a fair and just care economy and those things can be deficit-financed Investment parts in particular also should not be afraid of taxing. The rich i. I understand how it can backfire. And you get into this like what we can only do what we can raise money for. But on the flip side your taxes on the rich should go up quite a bit They should go beyond what they were. The obama years and we should tailor them more carefully so that they Tackle problems of tax avoidance and international money havens and other things. That are very much on the mind of a lot of the senior people appointed under biden. Who have been studying this in the last ten years and how bad it is okay. So i'm sold on the idea that we have the right mix of concepts here But beyond getting the ingredients right feel like there are some obstacles that have to fall in contingencies. That have to swing sort of just so for the story to end happily right leg He'll probably as you mentioned to. Abolish the philip filibuster or at least radically reforming who need literally every democratic vote in the senate and no one's allowed to get sick or die and then i feel like another big x factor. Is that it all has to work right. We need to be looking back a year or year and a half from now and saying that the roaring twenties or back Because the government came through with vaccinations and money in the wherewithal to sustain a comeback and then that has to translate into further political victories. And so what. I think about all that. What has to go right for for this conversation. End with biden getting the fdr size legacy that he seems to want To what extent is this whole conversation. Really kind of out the vicissitudes of history. That are kind of foolish to try to get out at all. I mean if you look at the big years for democratic achievements. that's when they've had a lot of people in the senate nine thirty four and thirty five mid sixties You know if you get over sixty senators on. He can do a lot of big stuff you know trying to do it with a razor thin Majority in the house and senate now is tough but they already got something. You're here are some reasons. I'm optimistic one is that there's movement on the filibuster. I don't think you have to eliminate the filibuster you have to do it what it used to be when i first got to the senate you had a standup on command the floor so you got to work for the filibuster and now if you wanna make it a little bit more painful make him. Stand there and talk. I'm willing to look at any way we camp. It may not be enough and obviously for a long-term advocates of removing the filibuster. It may not be much at all but she are now talking about it. And i think it's gonna you're gonna see more stuff in the next couple of months and even if it's just a move to the talking filibuster even if there's other kind of more technical ways of making it harder to do that's movement to i contrast this moment with the obama years if you think about the stuff. President obama head to do politically a lot harder than the stuff i think that needs to get done under by one is dealing with health care You know the mandate to purchase health care setting up these marketplaces that are very complicated. Trying to get buy in from health insurers and various other people with large stakes. You know something about healthcare for good reason really upsets people and it. It hits them sense to spot and so that that that's politically though giving money to families to be more secure a lot easier Even though they both have different legacies they're both very important. dealing with The financial sector dealing with the foreclosure crisis. I'm very critical of how the obama team handle the foreclosure crisis. But those politics tough. A lot of people thought the stimulus bill that they passed was another part of the bailouts that that they had continued from the bush years. The politics is really messing really ugly where politics of fixing pandemic getting hundreds of millions of shots and people's arms hundred millions of checks in their banking account flat. Nicer lot easier to do. And it's exactly the kind of stuff back. big government liberals want pouring money into the exchanges. Now that they're setup is easy You know passing. Minimum wage is tough politically but executing it is super easy. Just hang up assignments as the new minimum wage So a lot of the stuff. I think can work a lot faster and a lot easier and be more popular than a lot of the hard stuff that they had to do under the obama years. At least i hope so. Why is it correct to think of these kinds of objectives as comparable to the new deal the great society or even to the reforms president obama implemented There you had the creation of the brand new institutions and government agencies whereas this strikes me more like directing a lot of money at good ideas that already exist in some form or fashion sure. Yeah because it's always you know. These things are building in on themselves and learning from the long history of it. So one thing you look at the new deal. The new deal is very much A lot of people have emphasized. How many of the new deal programs left people of color behind With the way social security the way the wagner act with structured unionization ation excluded domestic workers agricultural workers who were disproportionately Lack in particularly black women in many cases you know there's a sense in which the new the new deal was structured in such a way that southern democrats who were defenders. Jim crow held a veto on it. And really deformed how it built out and took decades to start to rectify that and bring those people who are excluded into those programs. There's another important part of the deal where they were really like. A lot of the programs were built around a household with a man with a wife at home. Taking care of the cats. And the idea is that you would protect the male worker. Their wages would be high enough to be able to support their families and that was already not a really feasible model by the nineteen fifties when they started needing to do things like bringing in tax credits and other kinds of supports Help middle families but the idea of a really robust care infrastructure to ensure families can thrive in no matter what form they take by really valuing hair work as a type of labor no less than a manufacturing worker the mid century period. That's also a legacy of the new deal that i think a really smart broad investment in care work that is certainly reducible to a lot of bullet points of like really good ideas that we should do. Even if there wasn't all this ideological in historical issues with it but it does help rectify and reengineer. The idea of what adjusts natural society would look like because would include all these things that the new deal did not address at the top is what you're saying that we were reaching kind of like an end of history of what comprises the modern state and the main challenge now is just to appropriately. Resourced the good parts of it or do you wish. There was more structural change in what is becoming bill back better. Build back better is something that spends money sore might be able to pass with only fifty votes Where some of the other things you would need to have fundamental reform the filibuster to take on. So i think all these things together right now is a very important inflection. Point for who our economy works for of it's gonna be broader-based prosperity but also how the planets can survive in the next couple of decades. You know whether or not it's going to continue to become more inhospitable to everyday life With with heating and also star elections like are the republicans going to succeed in becoming a permanent minority political party that can exercise huge amounts power without ever having to think of themselves as catering to a majority of the population. Much less abroad cross sample repopulation. All those like definitely hang together. So i would not say just do one of those than you got your legacy but All of them requires serious solutions. And those solutions are the kinds of things that leave legacies. Yeah and you know it's funny. Everyone monitors everything. Joe manchin says I two and i think that's important. But he early on was like. I want my friend. Joe biden to be a successful president and with these kinds of a politically difficult ideas. Mostly off the table in favor of sort of simpler money in people's pockets kind of ideas. That really told me that there is a way for this to all kind of come together as biden introduces a bunch popular stuff. Republicans try to block it mansion realizes that for his friend joe biden to be successful. The filibuster has to fall on the pieces. Start falling into place and in a way in the in the sort of two to three months. He said that that's sort of been the trajectory were on. And i guess you know the legacy issue or the legacy question is good for people like biden and mansion to have to dwell on if only to keep their eye on the ball. Because you know if you do all this stuff and you help a bunch of people but then for whatever reason you don't win the battle for historical memory you still helped a bunch of people so it's like a good begin. Guess yeah historical. Memory will come and go but right now we have a lot of battles to fight and all the battles are good ones and the more we win the better off people will be and you know. Our grandchildren will judge us. However that's the perfect not ended on Mike thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me on. Keep sending us. Your questions are email addresses. Rubicon critic dot com listener. Michael a different michael than last week. We swear rights. Are there ways. Chuck schumer could use his power as majority leader to reform the filibuster all by himself. What's stopping him from bringing a bill to the floor calling for a vote and forcing the republicans to keep talking to extend debate. Effectively bringing back the talking filibuster. Some senate rule preventing him from doing that. Which would require fifty one votes to change. The answer is yes and this gets to what the filibuster reform conversation is all about. And why the dc establishment uses the term nuclear option to describe changes to the filibuster rules. The senate runs on both standing rules and precedent the standing rules. Hold the ending. Debate or invoking cloture on legislation requires a three fifths majority. Once upon a time senate minorities invoked. This rule rarely generally to stop congress from passing civil rights legislation. mitch mcconnell's innovation was applying to basically everything making all but impossible for democrats to pass their agenda. The senate can change its standing rules but doing so requires a supermajority. That's where precedent comes in the majority leader can't simply dictate that senate rules aren't in order for this or that vote but simple majority of senators can democrats can't change the standing rules on their own but they can create a new binding precedent limits the coach rule or dispensed with altogether on legislation. Just as it did on judges and other nominees. That's how unilateral rule change works and why it tends to make the party. That's doing filibustering so angry. Rubicon is written and hosted by me brian. Boiler it's produced by andrew gardner bernstein branca's simonetti is audio engineer. Production support from brian semel. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. pay listener. Yes you enjoying this crooked paw that you're listening to right now great. You'll definitely love my podcast. Take line from crooked. Media's hosted by me jason concepcion and me renee montgomery and every week. We'll get into the week of sports and culture from the games to the players to the issues happening. Both on and off the court will be tackling. The important political and social issues happening in sports head on. And you know it'll be good because jason both are winners. I mean i've got to wnba championship rings. And i've got an emmy so it's kind of cute subscribe wherever you listen to podcast episode. 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327: A Little Bit of Human Knowledge

Embedded

1:23:48 hr | 1 year ago

327: A Little Bit of Human Knowledge

"Welcome to embedded I am Ilias. Yo I I am here with. Christopher we've another show about machine learning for you but this time definitely embedded it's microcontrollers. Our guest is Daniel. Sit In America and we are talking about tiny Mel Daniels joining us. Hi Good Morning. Could you tell us about yourself absolutely so a my name's Dan? I'm a software engineer and I am from the UK originally but right now. I live in Sunnyvale California. I've been working in a lot of different areas across Silicon Valley ready for the last decade or so. But what I'm doing right now is sort of like what I've always wanted to do. My whole life which is play with artificial intelligence and machine learning and hardware and I'm super excited about it and I'm looking forward to talking more about this topic today if we do that. I want to lightning round where we ask you questions. And we want short answers. Are you ready? Yeah I'm ready. Tactic complete one project or started dozen. I guess this is like reality. And My My goals collide. I think I'm pretty good at like in each in each area of my life. I generally have one project so I usually have one cool technology projects. I'm working on to one other random Havi. I've picks up but I tend to have a lot of different areas that I have projects ongoing in So right now I have. I just bought a sewing machine in a bunch of Hep A. Filter material to so some face masks. I have This morning workup six. Am and started playing around with this. Awesome satellite-based Laura System Likud myspace. And that's my my kind of embedded project that I'm working on right now And I have a huge list of other things that I'm kind of chipping away at the camp. I wish I wasn't that good camps are do you have a favorite I or L. Algorithm Favorite Algorithm? I mean honestly I think just the the fully connected deep leading network is such a crazy amazing thing. They the idea that you can set up this array of very simple bits of states and some fairly simple rules and it's able to learn to represent much much more complicated things through three. What is basically a fairly straightforward set of calculations is kind of mind blowing. I think when when I started to learn about this stuff and I think I have a thing. Generally in life for a complex emergent properties where you have a lot of lot of little simple things that add up to something very complicated and is able to represent all kinds of subtle in the mazing phenomena and fully connected deep learning networks a basically a amazing example of that so I just I just find that whole idea really cool. What is your favorite my controller on my favorite microcontroller so actually doing a bunch of work with the Mike Konczal is based around Kota exam platform. At the moment. In what we're doing with embedded MELVA is really hit. The sweet spot. The sort of full type microcontrollers generally like the shockingly powerful considering House Molin energy efficient. They are are able to run these types of models that are doing really quite amazing things but still get incredibly good potentially get incredibly good energy consumption so I I'm really enjoying that. There's also a lot of platforms overload of death kits around these microcontrollers so it makes it easier for what we're doing today. Able to create code will be run -able by people who are building also Coal stuff if all of the computers in the world suddenly disappeared. What would you do? I mean I guess it depends is it that they never existed in the first place and I I just had a different path in life or would it be that like so in that case I know you know I always think about what would I do if I make a jillion dollars can just have a whole restart in life and I think I'd like to sailor out on the boats and like investigate marine mammals. I think that would be pretty cool. I'd like to be a marine biologist. I don't know why I've always been fascinated by the ocean and the the mysteries contains within. But I think that would be pretty hard without computers. I'd have guessed and some sailing skills. Okay and let's talk about your book you you co wrote a book. Tell me what it is. Yeah so we wrote this book tiny amount over the last year and it's basically a book that is designed for people who want to get started with learning on embedded devices But it doesn't make the assumption that you know anything about embedded devices or machine learning so we have this kind of challenging. Raymond of trying to figure out. How do we explain embedded stuff to m. l. developers and embedded developers and both of those things to people who are just interested in the topic? It does assume some knowledge around programming but not anything too intense and It was a collaboration between Pete. Worden who leads embedded and mobile machine learning stuff at Google? And he's the originator of the tentatively light for microcontrollers project and myself. How did you split up the work so we came up with the sort of like goal of splitting between tutorial and introductory content. Which is something. I focused on I've done a bunch of stuff in education in my career just sort of. I don't know my mom was a teacher and I kind of like Phil pulled in that direction a lot. And so I love writing tutorials and explaining how things work and doing introductions to stuff and pete was able to get really deep on like the philosophy behind the testified life in microcontrollers projects and the types of things. You need to think about when you building a project and really like bring in his deep experience on building these types of mobile and embedded applications and and learning where all the points of friction. It very project hands on sort of book. It's less theory and more here. Here's a recipe. Go TRY IT. And here's how to tweak. Which is your favorite project in the book. So I think my favorite project really has to be the vision and the reason is just is absurd. The this stuff is possible. We were writing the book while we were still working on the vision model while we're still working on the two that would enable it to run and so we kind of doing something that no one's really done before. Very few people have really done before while writing a book about how anyone can do it and just sort of incredible like where we're living in this time and place where you can have a microcontroller. That's consuming like a couple of micro watts of power While attached to image sense that is capturing I think he's a ninety six ninety six grey scale image where able to run in France on those images. And tell you whether a person is in the frame or not which is like such a high level crazy question to be able to answer like does this picture contain a human being and this being answered by this tiny device that can literally run for for weeks or months on a tiny battery and it costs very little money and I think like just because it's so easy to understand that like vision is hard like this is something really challenging. If you're you're a software engineer and someone like whiteboard out a solution to a problem you wouldn't want someone to ask eastern whiteboard out like detecting a person in a an image. It's not something like you're going to be able to sit down and Hackel Algorithm to approximate varies leaders are so much so much variety in like. What does a person look like Vote people look like from any possible angle? What do people look like in different types of surroundings and with different lighting? And what do people like wearing different clothing and all this type of stuff? And Somehow we're able to to fissile of that knowledge all of that understanding of what is a person visually into a model which is like a couple hundred kilobytes runs on this tiny little device. And I just think that's incredible so this is really exciting to me. Did you start with the notion knowing you could do that or did you just say? I bet we can work too hard. I mean you did simulated small models on full computers. Yeah there's not any real difference between running a model on the microcontroller versus running on a stupid high powered server is still the same type of architecture and the same kind of code it just needs to be able to fit on that platform and run within a reasonable timeframe so we know that you can create a small enough vision model that gets decent performance. It's you have to think about scoping out your toss a little bit. So if you think about Cutting edge vision vision models are generally doing some kind of task that is across multiple classes. Maybe you're classifying the content of an image and your wanting to decide like which of a hundred different objects could be in that image and that's going to require a much bigger network than being able to decide whether an image has one objects in it or not catching on so scoping. The problem like that is really important. I'm we kind of knew that you'd be able to do that. And we oversee a google working with like incredible people who Like really have a an amazing deep understanding from a research point of view about what's possible once feasible said I'm full and then the light for microcontrollers framework essentially builds in this module Away where a deep learning models composed of lots of different operations And these are just like mathematical transformations Y. You take an input tense. Bicycling multidimensional array transform it in some way Out The other end and we knew that we have implementations of the rights operations within the framework to run these types of models so We had the ingredients. But it's just a matter of getting together this this kind of magical moment way. I push the things that the device and it works. That stuff is impossible. Without a lot of hard work from a lot of people doing everything from the like integration. Were get it bringing up the book getting the camera. Senses Working People across multiple companies will can Muslim failed all coming together to like. Have this artifact is able to do something amazing. But once you've done that once you can reuse all of those pieces that you developed in it makes it easy for people who don't need to have all of that that knowledge to pick it up and stop building cool stuff. You are Google when you did this work And you you mentioned. There are lots of people contributing to it. Tensor flow intensive light. Are both open source projects. Dick Google has sponsored. How how does that work inside? Google? You're not making any money. Yes so that's that's really common question that we get a while. I was working at Google. And it's it's sort of like Giggle giggle basically. Is this big crazy company. That does loads of amazing stuff and it's so huge and has so many different teams that there's the potential for a lot of duplication of effort. So imagine you've got a team that's working on creating machine learning models to forecast the weather and then there's another team that's working machine learning models to put on embedded devices and there's another team that's working on machine lining for powering digital assistant so checking spam in your e mail. It would be an absolute disaster if each of these teams has to implement its own deep learning libraries from scratch. And that's something that is is pretty much inevitable to happen when you have this giant company that spread across pretty much every continent except Antarctica and like loads of smart people who love reinventing the wheel. And so I think tens of flow. The main reason tends to flow exists is because Google needs a awesome like world-class deep learning framework. That everyone in the company who needs to use deep learning can use and so because tens of flow exists. If you work at Google and you need to do some deep learning work you have this amazing tools that available to you and you don't have to reinvent the wheel you don't have to build it yourself and just because Google Google wants to many awesome coal things that are based around it makes sense for Google to create a sense of flow and if Google's going to create sense of flow it makes sense for giggles. Give it away because there are just so many big advantages to open source. So you know it's like you community contribution that's part of it but you also get to expose what you're building the world and get feedback and understand what people's needs In situations other than your than your own allows google to like build services around ten flow. So you can like us some Google cloud service to to run your sense flow model And giggles able to make some money from that It just seems like a good way of giving back to the community. Engaging with the research is doing the amazing work the allow these products bill on ten flow light. Did you work on the machine learning side or the embedded side? So it's it's interesting because this kind of like a blurry distinction with tens of flight micro maintenance afloat. It's sort of like this big set of tools. This originated for running machine lending training machine learning models and running them on service. Intensify light was created as a a subset attentive flow that allows you to do stuff efficiently on mobile devices so android iphone and that type of thing and then tens of flight for microcontrollers was spun off as like a sub component of that separate the team. It's sort of like a Russian doll. Tens of life and microcontrollers teams inside of the tensor flow. Light team and the sensible light team is inside of the sense of flow team and then the tense afloat seem is inside of the Google research team. Who Make Use of these tools? But so what we're doing on the micro side We're such a small team that sort of like everyone's like knee deep in everything working really closely together. So we had some people who are focused on M. L. and training models and That the folks who would create for example the vision model. Which is something where it's like. Hey this isn't something that's been done a lot before making a vision model that so small and so we we had dedicated. L. Folks working on that but then they work really close with the engineering team to make sure that stuff can actually run on. The microcontroller isn't that we have good operations support in that type of thing and then we'd also be working on the embedded side to make sure that we've got platforms that this stuff works really nicely with so we work really hard to make sure that this stuff runs on on a few different widely available developer platform so a lot of the examples in the book work on Adriano. They work on spot. Van Devices We we actually work with spot. Funds to develop a device that specifically was well suited to running these kinds of low low power and also asks and There's there's now a bunch of devices that the examples that tend to flow light team is created a compatible with and so I kind of sat in the middle of all that I actually was my role on. The team was developer relations. So I'm kind of the interface with open source community and with the UAE develop community and my job is to sort of build content and samples and examples and communicate to the community. The kind of cool stuff that they could do. And that's both on the embedded side and on the side and also take the communities feedback and integrate that into what? We're doing engineering wise. That might be fixing bugs. It might be adding features in it might also be just like providing guidance to the wider team on what we should be working on. So that's the kind of crazy developer relations. Ralway you're you're an engineer but you also deeply immersed in what's going on in the community and so I ended up covering stuff from the L. side all the way through to the darkest COLLINA's poking around trying to get audio encoding to work correctly feeding into model when you say are doing. Oh you don't mean at the WHO know tiny processor. Unfortunately not the devices that we've targeted on the Audrey. The the board that we should have recommended people pickups have a nice experience getting her running is the Audrey Nine. Nano thirsty three cents. I think I said some of those words out of older But it's basically a Kotex full I think. Cole and Has Enough memory and a bunch of onboard senses? That it makes it a nice death. Vote to just quickly get up and running with stuff. It has a built in accelerometer. So you can just pick it up and start you can upload the Magic Wand example that we we work through in the book and immediately get some results. So it's nice just especially when people from background to Necessarily want to do any soldiering and dino at a bread bodus having these types of platforms weather awesome integrated senses makes it really easy to get started and get a sense of what's possible because it's not always intrusive now it isn't but let me Let me state that the info on that chip. It's the are doing. No no thirty three cents and it has the Nordic Semiconductor and our F- Twenty eight forty which is a cortex m four it doesn't say in for F- And it's Got Bluetooth. The other board that is often mentioned with your in your book is the Spark Fund Edge. Which has the MVP micro Apollo three blue microcontroller which is another CORTEX M for F- And inspect to run tensor flow light using only six micrograms per megahertz and normally runs. Forty eight megahertz. Ninety six megahertz burst mode and so the claim is that you can run it on a coin cell a CR twenty thirty two for ten days which doesn't sound like much except they're much bigger batteries out there. Run A teensy too. I think anything CORTEX THEM FOR US. Yeah there's a list Hotel put in the show notes of boards. That are recommended. It's interesting that you have the book which is nice to have it as a book. But there's much of the information is also available online. I mean the intensive flow dot org late microcontrollers page lists the processors and and does have links to the projects into orioles and they seem to be the same projects into oriels are they. Are they different or the? Why should we buy your book instead of just well? We didn't we didn't write the books. It's Gav rich and make tons of money and that's a good thing options. Unfortunately we actually just wanted to make sure that this information and like these types of tutorials are out there fullness accessible to a lot of people and we've actually got the first six chapters of the book viable on tiny Melba DOT COM for free. So you can can guess for like what what's going on in this book. What's possible and actually do some of the tutorials without having to pay anything you can just grab the PDF goal is to have all the content in the book be available online in some form or other in addition to in the book because we want people to start using the technology. We will more faithful to understand what's possible unimpeded devices which is definitely something. I'd like to kind of delve into a little bit later in the conversation and I just really think that it's important that we get these tolls into the hands of people and we've got like a lot of INFO is duplicated on the tense afloat. Dogs we've got Piece actually does some amazing screen casts a based around the projects in the book are on Youtube. Unda we're trying to engage as much as we can with the community to shad this type of stuff and you have much of the model generation and information in co lab documents which I thought I hadn't seen before your book but I had a bunch of when I went. I mean I'd saved a bunch of and never looked at apparently but the it's like a Google docs but Jupiter notebooks it. It's a way of looking at code and even running it in a web page. Could you explain collapse? Yeah I've seen and I did. Yeah I mean I think that was a really good explanation. So imagine I mean if you're familiar with. Jupiter notebook is basically a kind of interactive document. Way You can mix Just regular plain text and you can drop in Python Code as well and it's in the form of blocks. Oh you can write a paragraph of explanation. You can add a block of code and then people who raising the through the document can run the code and see the output and so it's this amazing tool for all sorts of things but we're we're using it as basically a way to rice a tutorial where you go through reduce Oriel and then you can actually run the code that it's teaching you about in place and see what it does experiment with in play with it. An so co lab is a platform that runs Jupiter notebooks. You can also just download the files and run them locally But coli provides an environment with a nice beefy. Gp that you can try models on really fast and it takes care of ugly stuff like dependency management. One of my pet hates is pilot and is the worst thing in the engineering world. I think and the nice thing about coq. Au lavis. That all of that stuff is just abstracted away and you can You can run terminal commands through Specific packages and stuff like that but Everything's encapsulated within this documents. Sort of setting. So you don't have to worry about setting up all kinds of wacky python tooling on your machine which is a big barriers to entry for a lot of folks. Don't come from the python world and wants to play with the stuff so it really makes stuff a lot easier and so the other cool thing is you're able to display like graphics so you can output graphs the Display model metrics during training. You can visualize the results of what you're doing and all of that gets get shown visually and then you can download files from the collapse. We use it as a way that you can have a document is like a tutorial that shows you how to train a model but then you can actually download the model from it at the end. You can make your own changes. Download your model in just put on on device so it's kind of step towards making this stuff more accessible for more people. I think it's successful. Step I I definitely in machine. Learning suffer from the blank paid problem where I just don't know how to get started. I know all the words I can tell you what I WANNA do. But faced with data and code. I don't know where to do that but I can easily modify other people's code which is why these weapons are pretty cool Yeah absolutely and that's always the best way to learn I think is when you've got something that works and you can see sort of what the different pieces of doing and you can just start to fiddle with them and try to get it to do what you you wanted to do. I think that's a really successful model Getting people to understand this. So that's all the good news. Now I have some questions because as much as I did. Enjoy your book. I didn't I didn't actually put micro controller for a few reasons and and thinking about projects in the future. I'm not sure that this is a path. I want to go down So this fund board the Spark Front Edge. It gets some really bad reviews. About how the Yes? No doesn't work. And how the machine learning doesn't work does it? Does it really work? I mean is it only work if you if our full moon nights okay? So this is where we come into the sticky questions about m. l. because everyone's heard so much about machine learning in and how it's going to take all of our jobs and how it's going to make the world a completely different place overnight and then you you come to us atmel products. I'm sure everybody's had the experience where they've like. Go out their phone. Tried to use whatever digital assistant is in there and it completely misunderstands them. In Kohl's someone they have not spoken for years instead of setting a timer. It's a very specific and yet I think it's happened to make. I mean every time we talk at Google and we talk about the Google Assistant. We have to avoid saying that the wake word for the Google assistant because everyone's fun will suddenly wake up in the audience and start talking like m. l. l. is a specific tool in it is it has limitations and it can be applied to certain areas very successfully in other areas not so successfully and the big thing that is underlying everything with M. L. is that it's completely dependent on data. You cannot have good machine learning models if you do not have good data and what good data means is actually quite hard to pin down. So you mentioned the the speech model in the example APP on the spot so It's just the the basic model in the example is trained to recognize. Yes no I'm all decide whether it had an unknown and so this little models basically taking its inputs Some transformed audio we actually run a m FCC get a Spectrogram the is representing the audio. The this captured by the votes microphone feed the Spectrogram into the model and the modal spits out. Whether it thinks it say a yes no or a non nine would and so the models trained on data captured from volunteers online people who've contributed to open data set which I think about ten thousand a total samples and people out that and they all have different voices and they all say words in slightly different ways and they will have slightly different ambient noise going on around them and They are all using devices that maybe the the microphone placement is slightly different between one one death kit or another maybe some kind of interference from from stuff going on around them so the conditions that your device is in when it's trying to run inference. Which is trying to make a prediction based on the model could be very different from the conditions that the The data was captured on the and so the the issue that exists with that model this flash onto the borders of the like hello world is basically that it wasn't trained on a diverse enough set of data to represent the way everyone talks and all of the types of background noise the happening while they are trying to get this thing to work. So we've actually. I recently been like playing around with audio models and trying to get this same sized model to work with better performance and the way that I've been able to do it is just throwing more data so I've a lot of samples of background noise and like I added another category. The models trying to classify background noise so rather than trying to shoe horn things into yes no or an online word. We're also looking at whether something is background noise. This allows the model to to understand how to segment those things. A little better Essentially without pouring in more days without getting more data A more recordings of people saying yes or no. There's a limit for how accurate the model can be. And so that's something that's really important to understand with with machine. Learning is something that makes it quite hard to do these types of example applications because your your publishing an example with some open source code. You don't have thousands of dollars to spend paying people to record you don't have to license. The data set from a company that builds them. I'm you just need to somehow figure out a way to pull the states from the community and then make use of that and so it's challenging to show what's possible because the types of data sets that are available to people who are building examples building projects and not the same as what might be available if you're building a consumer quality APP and so you you can't necessarily expect the same results but the nice thing is over time. These types of data sets to become available and there are like really big data sets for example full vision that are available for free. And there's a bunch of them. They have their own problems. There are a lot of problems with non representational data so maybe for for the voice example may be have lots of voices with American accents but not many with British accents. That's a problem. I struggle with every time I use any kind of speech recognition thing. So that means that you'll models gonNA work pacifist. People who have that sort of modal characteristic that you'll data set represents this is always a challenge when you're building projects with male buys important to note that doesn't mean the M. L. is useful. It just means that you have to set your expectations and you need to collect collect as much data as you can and your expectations can actually get pretty high. If you have a good day to set it's possible to be really accurate with speech. Recognition awake were detection. You can tell that by the fact that when I'm giving a token I talk about Whitewater detection on say the dreaded phrase Okay Google. Everyone voters leising up in the audience because they have got an embedded waco detection model working that works extremely. Well If you if you have lots of data you can do amazing things for easy. Toss speech speech. Detection is speech. Recognition is actually quite challenging because of the diversity of things. But they're hon of areas were using less diverse data less kind of variation between different types of inputs. And you'll be able to get get much stronger much more dependable results with a much smaller days set so for example the company that I now working out which we'll talk about in a moment edge impulse is basically building easy tools for developers to use to train deep learning models without having to have any experience with doing site. And we've got a couple of tutorials examples. Show how you can collect like a couple of minutes worth of data for like gestures using an accelerometer or of audio for classifying different types of things like we have one example with classifying whether force. It is currently running on not based on the noise. And you're able to get good results. A really small data set like ten minutes a day. Says something like that so it all depends on the scope and the type of your problem. What kind of results you can expect? And how big a day to say you're going to need. How do I know if it's data set or the tiny of the model? How do I know if I have a big data if a lot if I have a lot of data how small can I make my model or if I have a very yeah? How do I tell the data or the smallness of the model? Yeah that's a really good question so the way you would do that. Basically is trying to a big fat model using all the resources at your disposal. Run this thing on your laptop trying to train it and see if you can get something that performs well on a more powerful device and then you know that is possible with that data set to accomplish the toss that you're trying to do and if you find that even on a even with a big model using state of the art approaches on a powerful machine. You're not able to do this then. You're not going to be able to do on a tiny device and if you do find out that it works Then you can stop reducing the size of the model so you can start shopping. Bit South. Removing layers reducing the size of layers and see if you can maintain that performance as the modal gets smaller and is really an iterative process of Making little adjustments seeing the impact they have and Replacing until you have something that works and that's generally while the AM L. Would for looks like this. There's a big difference between rising an algorithm and training machine learning model and when you rising an algorithm generally used to figure out what you need to do you figure out what your input saw you identify the processes that need to happen in order to get from your inputs your output and then you figure out how to implement that on the device that you have access to the API's you have access to With machine learning the the prices very different. It's very iterative. And you don't necessarily know if it's going to be possible to do the thing that you want to to begin with so really your your whole development process goes from planning and implementing to exploring and testing and trial and error and tinkering and trying to figure out if something is going to work and that's definitely not the normal way we we do like the type of engineering. We're talking about like if we were trying to develop a heuristic for something. Generally there's some like demand knowledge that we know that can be like expressed in the full code. We can use that type of code to figure out a way knowing what's going on on in our application with with a deep learning approaches of machine learning approaches. More like you have to go through this whole discovery phase of Trying different types of models trying random changes to stuff literally random changes to stuff to see what kind of impact it makes like. There's a an idea called hyper parameter optimization which is essentially the idea that Your your model has a bunch of prophecies high-level properties about it that you can change and certain combinations of high level prophecies will enable it to perform well and certain combinations will will make it doesn't perform volatile and the only way really to discover those you can use some intuition but the only way to really discover them is to kind of tests a bunch of them out and one effective and widely used way of doing that is just randomly picking parameters and training a bunch of different models and then evaluating the mole and looking at which one works the best in using that one so that's so different from what we usually do is engine is. It can be a little bit unpleasant counselor inches if it makes it a lot less easy to plan how long something's GonNa take to do which is obviously not easy in the first place. Find this kiss fiddle with it until it works. Extremely objectionable distrust enormously and there is an element of randomness in building the model as well as as choosing all of the parameters and choosing the data choosing the size and the structure of the model. And an in your book. You have some different options frigging out ram size and deep learning network size and it was just try it until it works and if it works for me it may not work for you how do we formalize these processes to to stop. Hanway Norway around this I. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like engineering to me. Yes so so it's interesting. 'cause there's different ways you can think about this like on the one hand machine learning. It's a nightly sort of probabilistic is a statistical toll and so inherently there is some degree of of uncertainty involved for this type of thing you also can't know from looking at data whether it's going to be able to result in a good model there are clues and there are ways you can explore the data that let you know is going to converge well or not we for example in edge impulse. Tolling can give you like a visual sense of the way that the data points in your data set relate to one another and you can see if they separate on a graph and if they separate in this. Three dimensional visualization than. You can see that the neural network can start to learn to recognize the distinct clusters of data points and on relationships that you might have. But there's always going to be this aspect of of exploration in an a bit of unknown. The data makes sense to me like you about visualizing it to make sure it's separable at least in some axes but I mean the data exploration I totally get the algorithm exploration. I just we've experienced that ourselves. I mean you have a spreadsheet of the parametric search that I can go find the right now for trying to figure out which of the that works for work. We've been working through so take. Your objections are not directed directly Amazon community. Yes very much. So but it is worse with tiny amount because there's another variable access yeah And I just I know that Dan's book doesn't try to formalize it. I know that guarantees hands on tensor flow et CETERA. Does try to do a little bit of formalization with a book building intuition as well as making predictions based on some of the statistics. Parts But I I am still it for me. It's the worst part about emily's is filth until it works. Yes positive that's to do with the kind of maturity of the tools like the imposing to think about right now is that sensitive life in microcontrollers for example launched around this time last year. Hasn't been around six seconds in the exactly the must've been there the definitely a lot of rough edges still there are bits of tolling the can exist but don't so a good example there is like Part of the process of getting a model up and running on a given devices to figure out how much scratch space it needs calculations basically we call it the tensor arena. It's basically the memory that needs to be allocated for these. The storage of tenses that produced during intermediate calculations throughout the model. And that's something that we can just figure out you know that's something you should look at the model and look at the OP implementations and know how big it should be. But that's just something that the tolling hasn't been built full yet so some of these problems are GonNa go away over time and the work that we're doing edge impulse around tolling like that's one of the things we look at is like how do we make it so that you can just drop this thing in his library and not worry about that type of stuff. And that's definitely doable. Some some of this just comes out of immaturity but there are other things like when when you're designing your model and experimenting to try try and guess it working that's always gonNA involve some degree of trial and error but the thing that you can do is rather than during the trial and error yourself as a human being. You can get a computer to do it and say well what we're trying to do Without soling at impulses basically have you upload data And then we make a bunch of small decisions on which model to use and how big the model should be and like we can a bunch house figure out what works the best in. Just give you a recommendation in if you to deviate from that if maybe the mobile you recommended is a bit too big for the amount of memory you have to play with. You can adjust the levers in and get something different but as an engineer. You don't WanNa have to think about that kind of rubbish like you just want to basically feeding some data know whether the thing you're trying to do is feasible on awesome. What kind of accuracy? You'RE GONNA get an assuming it works nicely you on a library to come out of the other end that you can integrate a man. That's what it should look like. I'm all of this. Census should be taken away abstract away so that people who are just trying to solve a problem donate to think about it. I'm also sort of bothered any more to the machine. Learning aspect bothered by using neural nets to do things on a micro controller that maybe domain knowledge and Harris sticks or do better. I mean how do you decide? Pd controllers has been the thing for me could could I replace a PD control over the neural network? You've been trying well. I I stopped once things happened in the world. Right just couldn't that's not. That's not bell's fault now. We don't know true anyways. Some conspiracy theories as somebody who really enjoys gaining the deep donate domain knowledge and working on really efficient algorithms. I'm totally kicking and screaming with machine. Learning is it. Should we inform our client diverse are? They're tough but understood. Sheera sticks that compare to developing and training neural network. So I think my guidance would be really if there's an algorithm to do something use the algorithm stuff is hard it's messy and complicated and you can abstract load of that away and make it easy for developers to do. But it's still going to be hard for you little microcontroller that's like trying to instead of just directly calculate something it's basically across multiple layers of a bunch of complex matrix math trying to figure out an approximate version of the answer. You know like if you if you can help the program out by telling it exactly what to do. You should absolutely do that And so I would say that if there's if there's an understood heuristic for something if there's an existing algorithm for something or if you have access to the domain knowledge that it takes to build that efficiently feel subject area. You should probably are on that side before thinking about machine learning but why you would want to use machine learning is when maybe that isn't at understood heuristic if you if you know the problem but it's very difficult to describe in a an Algorithm Esguerra. Simple way how to solve it may be can figure out how to solve it for you and so- speeches a really good example of that so like if I say the word yes. There's certain things about it that you could probably write an algorithm very quickly to recognize like when I specifically say yes. They'll be like a a certain pitch that my like hissing sound at the end of it. They'll they'll be like certain certain length they might have if I was talking normally and you can. You can figure out how to do that. But what if you then want to identify when someone else's saying yes? It might sound completely different. Those things you've identified. Just go out of the window and once you try to do that across the entire population of people. Of course everyone on earth Imagine it took a month just to say that Rhonda amount of time. Imagine it took a month to figure out the heuristic recognizing the would yes for most people and you wrote a nice hand to endow her them to do that. That's great but then when you want to match the word now you're gonNA have to spend that time again and then if you had another word it gets even more difficult and then the more words you layer on top the more collision you're going to have between your rules and so it gets very very difficult very fast and so what you can do. If you're using an approach is just provide this data and try and try and a model and if you can try to muddle that works well that might be something you can do in like a day or two or maybe even a couple of hours as guests sense for whether you can get a reasonable way towards solving the problem with M. L. And then maybe you might take a month off to that of fine shooting. You'll model and getting it to work at his absolute optimum and collecting more data and feeding in. But then that that model isn't going to cast so much whether it's it's recognizing yes or no are down or other other commands that you want to feed in because it's potentially able to generalize and and be flexible in that way and so you have to be really careful side. Densify these types of problems where machine learning is is going to help whereas in some cases it is just GonNa be a way of doing the job approximately when you could have done it specifically and and precisely and it might take a lot more computation to do something. That could be expressed most most simply. So there's some kinds of things that is really well. Cc Too and others that it's not And so when you think about what others things like recognizing messy stuff. It's really good for recognizing spoken. Words recognizing what things in the real world look like recognizing the dynamic state of motion of a an ice and weather is like someone going for a jog versus swimming in a SMART. Watch or whether it's whether a machine is operating correctly based on vibration. Those are the types of things that it's really ugly and difficult to try to describe encode. There's so many edge cases in like visit witness and noise and variation in the types of signals. You're getting and can be tool. That can help sift out the signal from that noise which is essentially what it's always doing is sifting signal from noise. And if you if you can do that already you don't need but if it's too much of a challenge with hundreds and code then M L. is a really cool tool to as Chris alluded to. I am using a lot of tensor flow and an mel in work. But I'm not doing the tiny part though. We have a pretty big processor. I'll have to worry too hard yet. But is tiny Amal Ship. Will I mean if somebody came to me tomorrow and said I want you to do this is it? Is it ready to go or is it still in in? Things are changing so fast. I may not be able to be able to rebuild my code in the future so is absolutely ready to go and I think the biggest example of that I can think of is in the Fact that it's deployed. This exact use case wake would detection that we've been talking about so much deployed across millions of android devices. Maybe billions. I'm not even not sure but like a huge number of of mobile handsets. Have a chip. That is using some kind of machine learning algorithm to wake up the phone if it has the right words and this is something that works today and there are tons of companies working on products that Inco Pricing M. L. We're still early on so like a bunch of those having come to market yet but there is a lot happening in a lot of excitement in this space from people who creating hardware products people who are building solutions to problems that Really difficult to address without this type of on device understanding the key areas where it makes the most sense to deploy. Amel on device. Away you have limited connectivity where you want to limit the amount of communication you do because of energy constraints and where you want to guarantee people's privacy on those things that are becoming more and more important over time and embedded has arrived basically the exact right moment where people are starting to care about their privacy. People don't want all of the things they say being streamed into the cloud for some mysterious of to Digest. If you can leave data on device then everyone is happier and you get better licensee in better performance and better energy use and there are just so many so many applications for this and the the M. L. side. The technology is that the models work. If you have the right data set then you can do amazing things. And on the embedded side toiling guessing that too and projects like Microcontrollers like this amazing low level fabric. The that enables this type of stuff and then there collaborations going on between companies like Google and arm by arm as work really hard on guessing all of the Simpson Optimizations into the light the microcontrollers library so that on on devices that support these API. Is You get super fast inference? So if you're developing you don't have to worry about doing these really efficient. Low level implementations of ops you can just make uses these amazing tools and then companies like edge impulse where I work with building the high level layer that allows you to really quickly go from data set to a model that you can deploy library sewer device and types of use cases and types of amazing things. That people are doing like. We don't even know what is going to be around like a year or two from now because domain experts people who have that that demand experience able to now get their hands on these tools and stop building things and and come up with like incredible applications of this technology that none of us have been building. The tools would've even thought of question. Where do you see tiny mel going in a year or five years? Do you have any expectations? I knew just a second ago. Said you don't know but do you have any fun things you've seen or interesting projects that we should be looking for. Yes I I mean I would say that like where we're going in in the next five years or and even in the next year is things are going to get a lot easier to use. And so you're going to see so many people who have incredible domain expertise about the problem that joins US solve suddenly having access to these tools. That can make a really profound difference in how quickly you can build something and get something working and be able to do something. Really impressive on device and so in basically every area we're GONNA SEE ANALYSTS. Thought to touch things rice at the edge so one of one of the things I've been most interested in is like in conservation. They're a bunch of organizations and companies looking at. How can you use machine learning to classify animal behavior monitoring environments and figure out? What's going on in the natural environment on a low power device that can occasionally report data back so much. You've got a way we actually tutorial about this reason recently. Imagine you'll looking at animal behavior and you have an animal that makes a certain sound like a lion. Rural was our example. You want to count. How many times align rules during the day? And maybe that's a good proxy for some aspects of Lyon behavioral health or something like that very simplified example. But with you can deploy a sense anywhere on a small battery that is able to understand when a lion has ruled and no matter what other crazy background noise is going on. You probably can get some decent accuracy and just keep a tally then. Once a day connect will send a message may be over like a low power radio. And you're able to keep track of what's going on. And also places that opens up the whole world to being understood better by scientists and conservationists who wants to know like the health of ecosystems and like maybe like detecting like the level of biodiversity in a forest and whether that's being impacted by human behavior even doing things like we've we've seen people who are doing Classification of the noise of chainsaws in the forest to detect where the people are logging illegally. And that's something I never would have thought of by myself but there are people out there doing that right now and we're just going to see that across every single failed every parts of industry from consumer devices through to the most obscure tools that are used in in very specific industrial applications. You are able to essentially encapsulates bit of knowledge. So what you're doing when you're collecting data set and labeling it is you're taking some knowledge from a human and conveying its onto this states that you're you're taking expertise from a domain expert and you're applying it to this data set and then you're training model. Which essentially encapsulates a little bit of human knowledge and understanding and is able to put it somewhere on the tiny device that uses very little power to answer a simple question and give you a simple answer. And that's something that can just be applies anywhere is about pushing pushing our understanding of the down to where it can make a difference without requiring direct human intervention. And that's that's very exciting. I think I think in the longest over the next five to ten years. This is going to lead to transformation of the world that no one's quite expecting. I think this is the technology like mobile phones kind of came out of nowhere and change the way we do. Everything almost overnight I think embedded L. has the potential to do the same thing and to me. Why means is that? Maybe we can go from a world where your day to day. Life is. Excessive frustrating interactions with things. Don't quite work the way you want them to to a world where everything around us is responsive to us and understands what we're trying to do with it and understands what's going on around us but not in a creepy way whereas reporting back to big brother but in a helpful way where it has some simple limited on device intelligence and is able to more easily help you get your job done or make your life simpler look after people who needs to be cared for in a certain way or be able to be better stewards of our planet and I think that things are going to the very different once you start to be able to push this intelligence down to where it needs to be used. Wait a minute. This was the part where I didn't like M. L. Remember we had the current where I liked him and then we had the part where I distrusted it in. And you can't come back to the beginning again. Talk me into this being super cool. So there's also the potential to create a lot of frustrating and exclusionary experiences to and we've seen from the community recently started to get more of an understanding of the fact that like when you use limited data sets if you don't have good knowledge about a problem or you you don't collect enough data from diverse types of situations. You can get really bad results. The the to increase discrimination or make people's lives more difficult and like the most horrible example of this. I've seen these pieces of software. You can use to interview someone by having them submissive video and it rates how good and employees they would be based on a couple of minutes of talking like that kind of stuff is horrifying and there are plenty of people out there who are sort of trying to move away from ideas like that to make sure that as we start to build applications with. Mel. We make sure they work. Well we make sure they work with everybody and we think before we apply machine learning in places where really you can't replace that human experience so it's all really important. Think about now. I have a question here crickets. There's no escape. So yes from my my ancient past the this A story I always have to tell whenever I talk to anyone which is is basically Back I guess it was about seven or eight years ago this point. I was working as an engineer. A software company around here and I had a couple of close friends even talking about starting a company doing something with technology and sustainability. And we were looking at. How did you get the models onto the crickets? Wait what are you talking? So basically we ended up figuring out that we wanted to build a company around food security. An interesting angle on improving food security is can you use insects to create protein? That can be used in animal feed and in human food and I hope they know the answer is totally absolutely yes and this is still doing already happening around the planet a our billions of people depend on insects for their nutrition already. But it's something that's the way to us in the West but we we started thinking about like. Hey could we apply some of our engineering and design skills to making this work at an industrial scale in the US? Really make a dent in the sustainability of the food system. And so we try to best to do that. And we've raised some money from investors and we bill ultimated farm platform. We had this big warehouse in the East Bay of the bay area. The we were raising crickets. And that's a frightening scale. And that was a little bit of my in my introduction to embedded because one of the problems that we had was. There's a lot that can go wrong on a cricket there's like water and food being pipes around. If you'll you'll it's amazing things they're also different states that you can get into with humidity and temperature and with the the state of the crickets that you want to avoid and you want to know about as soon as they happen and so we were looking at ways to deploy intelligence to the edge incentives to be able to understand what was going on in our femme so for example. We ought to detect if there's a water leak when there's a humidity spike that's fairly another question. Anita necessarily used M. L. for that. Another question we wanted to onto his given. A set of substrate has baby crickets. On how many baby crickets are on there? And that's something that's a lot more difficult to answer without some kind of complex like either computer vision machine learning algorithms and. That was the the time I got to stop playing with this and thinking about like. Can we run? Something on a small device is able to encapsulate some of this knowledge that we have about this very strange field that we've we've managed to get involved with and give us some answers on what's happening so we don't have to wake up at four. Am and come into the fom to look in a box and save. The Creek is doing And that sort of an interesting little snapshot of like that's the most niche kind of specific thing that you could possibly be trying to build something around but this type of tolling can even have a role that so. It's quite cool. But we we got to a point where we were able to produce a bunch of crickets efficiently and process them into a product that you can use. He's just the market in the US to support what we wanted to do. And so the companies actually released all of the stuff that we developed or is in the process of releasing everything we developed as open source. So if you're interested in starting a cricket farm you can gravel the documentation and build you. I was the biggest hurdle that cultural resistance did. The people could bring themselves to. It's the legs of so it's so I mean that's obviously a big angle of cultural resistance. But I think the biggest thing is is really just the issue of having to meet a certain scale of production before you can hit the economy of scale that you need. You need to have a really low price point to compete on the food markets and where we were looking at is can we supplement animal feed with crickets conveys on agricultural byproducts if he can feed a cricket with waste material from some other agricultural prices and then feed that crickets farmed fish that saves wild fish from being scooped. Up in ground in powder and fed to farmed fish which is mind blowing stupid. The problem is to compete on price with the fish that has been scooped up and ground into powder you have to have massive massive scale and there's a big gap like it's easy to get some funding to be able to build an RND scale facility and once you've got a business that is producing revenue it's easy to Skylab Get funding to grow your business but in order to get to that point from the RND facility as this huge gap. You have to cross way your curriculum too expensive to sell into the market. And that's the the big difficulty I think The hasn't been crossed yet. How one of the projects in your book isn't how to control crickets with machine learning. That would have been a good project. I mean I have to start thinking about that one. Actually think after after many years working directly with cricket so I think it's time for a break so I'm going to be imagined. Yeah Actually Mike. My current Jay's I'm I am playing with this The KUNA space like satellite satellite Laura transmission thing which is absolutely amazing. I want to train a model. That can recognize different. Kohl's and keep track of which birds are calling and how much and how often and sent me the results back over this like worldwide satellite low energy radio network. And that's something I don't know I just think it's a fun project to build and I have a bunch of birds that come to my balcony in a seed so I think it will be fun to see if I can do something with a different animal. There's a little bit more enjoyable sabet around. You hate crickets don't you? I owned the lovely creatures. So that's your past. You are working at edge impulse now. And you've mentioned them Do you WanNa tell a little bit more about him. Yeah absolutely so one of the big things that I kind of observed working with the community through the work that I did a Google and with the process of writing. The tiny amount book is even though we can make this stuff. Easy to get started with you can like take the the tutorials in the book and get something up and running you can pull down the example code and deploy and make some changes and do some cool stuff. It's still really challenging to train your own models even though the embedded side isn't that complicated and you can basically like plug in a library and plug in a model and have stuff work Training a model and even identifying a days assessing making making sure that the data set is reasonable is extremely hard. And that's something that you can. Anyone can la Nina. You don't have to go into a PhD. You can just stop developing these skills in this amazing resources out there but most people aren't going to have time to do that. And if you just want to get something done if you have an embedded project you're working on and you need to add some type of intelligence to it and you want to figure out if that's possible and implemented quickly yet really have any good options apart from doing all that learning and so I saw that these guys that edge impulse had started a company trying to solve that problem. And and when I when I saw a presentation by the at one of our tiny amount ups I was just like wow okay. This is is fixing everything that is currently difficult right now with with what's going on so I immediately just the like. I need to be a part of this so edge impulses basically a set of tools like starts with weather. You can put on a supported device. It will help you grab data from that device so whatever senses you have present you can grab that day to encode it in the right foreman and scores it up to the edge of as once it's on the server you can use the sort of like easy to use. Ui to chain together some signal processing and some machine learning models and it doesn't have to be deep learning. You can also go with classical models and basically create this pipeline for understanding the census to and classifying. It's in making decisions based on it. So edge impulse basically walks you through the process of doing that. You can just click okay through everything and go with all the defaults and hopefully come out with a model like is a good starting point and then to deploy that you just tap. Boston and you can either download a binary for one of the boys that leads directly support. So you can try it out immediately or you can grab a library which plugs into any. C. Plus plus eleven projects and that wraps a bunch of our own really efficient. Dsp Code and it also wraps tends to flow life and microcontrollers and so as a developer. You just get function that you can pass some data into and you will get out of that classification result. So I think this is going to be a massive deal for people because it means that you don't need to have all of this experience you don't even need to be a super super crazy embedded developer. Because I API is really simple you needs to tourists can collect enough data which we will help you understand and make sure you you achieve that and trying to model evaluates it and deploy and I just think it's. It's so cold we've seen so many people in the community who've picked it up and started working on amazing projects as someone who's like training classify that can recognize a cough for tracking people who are coughing as a result of the the pandemic and their goal is to eventually see if you can distinguish between a regular cough and a corona virus cough. I don't know if they've made any progress along that but don't get enough samples. Do Yeah exactly. That's that's the difficult thing is the the days that but we're we're currently supporting an arbitrary time series sensitive and also audio. We're going to be adding vision very soon. And we're working with hardware vendors to make sure that we support all the awesome like hardware. Acceleration is available on some platforms that we can output the right types of libraries in the right format to use with with certain platforms is really exciting. We're building this sort of hub that you can use to convert data into awesome. L. Muddles the like you can evaluate understand work really well before you deploy them to to whatever device you're targeting. How much does this cost? So it's actually totally free if you're a regular develop so we have kind of two two sections of Impulsivity the most of it. Where you ingest data you try to model and evaluated in deploy. That's totally free and loss of it is open source as well so like all of our firm whereas open source a bunch of the code that makes up the platform is just available on get up and then we work with enterprise customers who have different as developers regular developers and provides like big enhanced Fishes for for dealing with massive data set. So if you have like terabytes of data that you've collected from the the space you're working in and you want to be able to segment parts of that house train models based on subsets of and manage that day too. We have a set of tooling that you can use to do that. Type of thing as well and we charge for that. So that's the business model basically so we. We have enterprise customers that we work with. Who needs to do things with like big heavy lifting with the huge volumes of data and we make it easy for them. And if you're a regular develop you can just try for free and the cool thing is actually if you we've just released in last couple of days a mobile client so if you just want to get started and capture some data and train a model you can take your mobile phone. Do a quick dance with some qr codes and opened up a little client that will collect data from your instrumentation on your phone. Or your accelerates a on your phone and it can collect audio from your phone and you can use your phone to collect some data around unclassified today around a certain Problem in pull that into impulse and then try to model and you can deploy it down to your phone and test it out and you can also deploy the same multiple suicide embedded device than if you have enough data. You've done a good job of managing your data collection like you can potentially have something that you've trained on a phone based on data collected on the phone and on some other devices work as your production model could be true. Maybe I need to locate a website more yet. So it's cool I wait. We're super excited to get feedback from people like the company's pretty young and the products pretty new really like keeping is to the ground to hear what the community needs and what is difficult night now and what types of models of people likes available to try and so we'd love to hear your feedback and like build. What is going to unlock this technology for everybody? Dan? It's been wonderful to talk to you and I imagine I will have more questions for you in a few months. Do you have any thoughts? He'd like to leave us with so you will thank you so much for having me on this call. It's been a privilege to talk with the author of one of my all time favorite technical books and I hope people have enjoyed hearing about embedded ammo. I just say like yes. This is a new thing. It works a little bit differently to the talk of engineering that we will familiar with but the best way to learn about it and understand what's capable what is capable of is to just give it a try and like head to. Jim Pulse and see if you can trying to muddle the does something cool like show your friends and fail excited about it or grab the first six chapters of the tiny albuque- from tiny amount book dot Com and look through some of the tutorials in and have a go and get your hands dirty and on discern excited for more people's available to try this signal. Gnc was possible because to me is mind play. Our guest has been Daniel. Sit and Nyaka Tiny M. L. Engineer at edge impulse and author of tiny m. l. machine learning moved tensor for light on an ultra low power microcontrollers from. O'reilly was fun. Thank you so much. Thank you to Christopher for producing and Co hosting and thank you for listening. Thank you to our a Patriot. Supporters for all that they do including the slack channel you can always contact us at show at embedded FM or hit the contact link on embedded that FM. And now I have a quote from Robert Frost to leave you with gave you ever noticed that his poetry is like Sorta Cer- casting n even know anywhere in three words. I can sum up everything I've learned about life. Eight goes on emitted is an independently produced. Radio show that focuses on the many aspects of engineering. It is a production of logical allegance an embedded software consulting company in California. If there are advertisements in the show we did not put them there and do not receive money from them at this time. Our sponsors are logical elegance and listeners like you.

Google m. l. l. software engineer US Dan Sunnyvale California Mel Daniels engineer Christopher Daniel Silicon Valley Mike Konczal America Antarctica
Heather's Heading To The Big Apple!

Heather Dubrow's World

1:10:33 hr | 2 years ago

Heather's Heading To The Big Apple!

"The following program is brought to you by your friends at podcast. One. Don't forget to download our new podcast. One out. Mars cubes giving beach close enough. So that's space between you and me as the way all dance and sway into the news girl they embody and how you move. And every time you cross my girl Losey Alexa play the country heat playlist. Okay. With Amazon music. A voice is all you need. Get tens of millions of songs, download the Amazon music app today, Sundays from w and the creator of Jane. The virgin comes. Are you ready for that? What charmed? So exciting said you love charmed yet. I'm so glad that there would do you remember the story. I feel like I do, but I a little foggy because it's been a while perfect time for a reboot Sarah Jeffries in its you've ever shoes Princess Audrey in the descendant, right? Because Melanie Diaz and playing Mel and Madeleine man talk is, is playing Macy von. This is going to be so cool. I love this show because it's so much about female empowerment. These two girls are sisters and one is like a serious check and the other one's like a sorority gown, and their mom dies in this crazy mysterious death, okay. And they find out they have a sister God, and then they find out they have powers and as it. Turns out their mom bound up their powers, good mum while a nice normal life, right? But a purely on the night that she died. This untimely death. She was trying to unbinding their powers. It they could have them. Wow. Imagine yes, you know, they each have their own superpower, mind, reading, freezing time, moving things with their warriors suit. Barbie that I don't know. I would wanna fly, but I think it'd be scared to fly alone. Okay. I'll fly with you. We can fly anyway. So the three sisters realized that there are more powerful together right now, it's basically about Howard. They going to figure out how to use these powers and honestly figure out what the heck happened to their mom. Yeah, these three women come together and they find that they're stronger together and their supernatural powers combined. Charm ones are going to fight evil and protect the innocent. It's during Madeline man talk, Sarah, Jeffrey Melanie as charmed is casting it spell on the CW all news Sundays at nine, eight central after an all new episode of supergirl only on CW. Limited to a week right here in podcast, what? Hi everybody. This is so exciting. Okay. I know you guys aren't as well. Maybe you're note they, they are for sure because the sound quality, you know, much better. We have a very professional setup now. I almost feel like we need a picture. We do which you do touch on this on the house tour and you show people where we record where you record hours. Good fancy here. No, of course. I'm unsheltered and stinky. Okay. I have like three day old hair and it's Chris. Oh my God of why do we look? Why do I allow myself. The is let's try this angle. Now you could see the set of covering the same place where that huge underground thing. Get mine. I got one too is not. So in the same place on the right side, it's a sympathies and I have one down here to under my lip, not good, so no. But I'm so excited for. All right. So let me just start by saying we are pre recording today in tomorrow's episodes because when you hear this, I will just becoming home, but I'm going to New York for the release of the Dubreuil diet book. Right? And I'm so excited. So next week you'll hear about all of our adventures and what we did in York. I'm going to tell you where we're going in New York because I know so many of you always ask me like, where do you like to stay? Where do you like to eat? So I've laid out the whole trip and known is very excited to hear about it for the forty seventh time, especially Natalie book it and because he never cares. So I'm going to tell all of you. Yes. Let me just start by saying, I'm very excited. I'm very nervous. Don't be. I'm very nervous. I don't know why I feel like I feel like out of everything Terry and I, I've collapsed on. Yeah, this is so personal. Really? Yeah. It's like another sort of house thing, right? It's like your baby like you just worked so hard on it, and you finally get to show the world. And I think the crazy part is that you're making such a difference, the books on even out yet just like with our Guinea pigs. Right. I mean, when you heard Tammy and Greg talk about you, you literally impacted lives. It's been incredible, and we talk about what you do in the world to give back. Right, because especially with the house story that we're doing and everything, it certainly have gotten one or two, not that many comments, but one or did you come into people saying, oh, can you imagine if he used her money instead of building this house for less fortunate people, and I don't think those things have to be mutually exclusive. There's nothing wrong because I also got questions like, how do you manage that kind of thing? I, I don't think there's anything wrong with working hard and enjoying the fruits of your labor. Over and and enjoying your success and your lock? Yeah, that doesn't mean you don't give back, right. I mean, what do people think do people that if you make money that you should just give it all away like right or not allowed to enjoy, but isn't it okay to understand and realize that there's going to be people out there that are either envious or that are like, that's just it's normal. It's normal that people feel, but now we have the platform of social media where people can just sort of speed that all out. Yes, it's a partial envy like God. Why couldn't I live in that damn house or I can I get it and everything is relative. You don't think I'm looking at beyond, say on the on the Global Express, right. Well, hey, that looks good. You know there's always another level something else to achieve. You just shouldn't have to apologize. Is what I'm saying? Right. So I'm so I'm not what I'm saying is. Clearly we do give back monetarily. We give our time. We give money all that kind of thing. But you know, it's so funny if I started posting all the time about like giving back in and I'm still there. If if I showed you write me writing checks, right? It'd be like, what does show of, okay, we get it. You're giving money's. No, they're winning. I feel like, what is it? How do you say that like you give quietly charity is a whisper. I can't remember how that that thing goes. But anyway, just so those two haters that things I'm very comfortable. Yes, with what I give back, but to bring it back to the book for a second. Okay. So I love doing this show because they feel like we've created this community and you know it's entertainment, but it's also I wanna help and inspire and I learned from all of our listeners to so much and with console beauty. Obviously, I mean, it is a business, let's be honest. But I do feel like we are helping people look and feel their best, especially with consult health and all the supplements because I know I've learned so much through the process and listening to Terry in the science behind things and what we need. To sustain our bodies. And so I love teaching other people how to make themselves her new. It's crazy, you know, my friend, Sarah, she's giving everyone for Christmas this year. The beats really remote beats. Yeah, that's hilarious. Which I think is so funny because I always give topical products. Yeah, I give the shampoo body green or whatever because I just fun to give the gift of beauty, but she's giving everyone beats because they've totally changed her life. So I love that not Dr. Dre beats. Primo beats that you, okay, but this book with the debris, this, like to your point, this is the first time I feel like we have an opportunity to impact so many people to look and feel their best. And I look at my mom, my aunt, my uncle, my dad before he died and they, it's like a different world. Yeah, the way they eat the way they don't exercise the way they live their lives, and I feel like we're everyone's living. So what are you worried that we're not recording? No, you regarding. I just want to see your levels. Okay. Is it? Are they good? I think I don't know if you can get a little closer. I don't know. How can you tell if they're good does I was lying that you should be at like the twelve range and what's that. Am I at the twelve aligned? Hello? Hello? Yeah, my at the twelve. You're almost the twelve. I need to talk louder. Oh gosh. All right. Anyway, she'll give us. So sorry, we're just were so new at this. It'll be like it'll come by the way. You know. It's so funny. I keep getting comments from my friends and my mom like this boy. I didn't realize they were speeds on the podcast. What do you mean like you can speed it up and slow it down? Well, there's like a fifteen second speed up in a fifteen. Second. You know that actually a way to because they think I'm talking to faster than they realize they have it sped up. Are you sure I've gotten more than by the way, I don't know how to do this, but I've gotten more than one comment about this saying, oh, I thought you and now we're talking so fast. I couldn't keep up. And then I realized I had it in his sped up. I didn't know that that was even the podcasts everyday. Apparently, that's the thing. Maybe you just know how to do it right. I'll give it anyway. So the book is the first time that I feel like we've had this chance to impact so many people. And like I say, I'm looking at this older generation and saying that is not how I wanna live the last years of my life. First of all, I don't wanna be bent over. I don't want to have it be hard to breathe. I want to be able to travel. We're living longer. You wanna live all those years. Being able to play with your grandchildren, walk your dog or sit on the floor, get out of a chair, be the healthiest, best version of you that you can. And so I think that's what we're giving people with the buck I grant. I'm so excited about it. We did a Facebook live with all of the Guinea pigs. There was like one hundred of them that have been on in this group and gosh, the success stories are just inspiring. They really are. Yeah, it's really cool anyway. So I'm very excited, but I'm nervous so I can't wait next week. I'll tell you how it all went down. We did and it's out now. Now now go by the bro diet by now wherever books are sold. So right before we started, you and I were talking and you're snapping, I noticed happen. Did you notice that? Oh, I didn't. I? So why are you happy? I know Energi no. I mean, I know that I'm not happy. You look good though. Really? Yeah, because I was so sick and I look like hell before, no, you just look good. You look peppy really because I'm peppy you are, you know why? Why? You know what time I went to sleep say, oh, I got a great night's rest. Did you do what time do you go to bed? Like ten thirty? Guess what time I went to bed nine. No, I wait to emailing me that there's no, I went to bed at seven thirty. No, you know there's no way we were talking, but, oh, I think our last text with seven thirty and it was my right now. Emailed me at nine and I did not respond to this morning. That's right. You know why, though, this talk about a switch up. You know you like lie in bed with your kids and you read them a bedtime story and they fall even you tiptoe out, guess what happened? We were laying in my bed because I told cocoa she could sleepover so Terry and cocoa were laying the bed. Chef, Amanda hurt her wrist, right? They will God, she's okay, but she was resting, whatever didn't come night. So we had a quick dinner early and I was so excited. Yeah, like to eat early and just come upstairs. So let's just go lay in bed and I turned blankie up all the way to twenty, which you should be very hot. But again, I think I thought I was getting the flu. Do you take medication? Oh, I did too. Tamiflu. Good just in case. So I wonder if that's what knocked me out. No, but you know me, I've been to aspirin. Don't know yet. You're right. Have been exhausted. So anyway, so we get into the bed. I've blankie on twenty and it's seven thirty and cocoa starts reading from the land stories. She put you and I fell asleep and then I woke up like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't read that part again and I fell asleep. She had Terry left. Didn't use it at her voice was so like. She goes, we've they left because I fell asleep early. Yeah, they went into them and they apparently they had a fabulous time and they played music saying, oh, I love it. Good going room and do that. I love that. Have some quality time together use up through the night. So I woke up at like eight forty five and brushed my teeth and took up my contacts and then went right back to bed. Oh my gosh, woke up at five because my alarm went off. Oh, I may have woken up. Once I think is CoCo kicked because she's sideways, but it wasn't like a real wake-up as we got up at five say goodbye to max. Yeah, and then got back into bed till six thirty. Oh my goodness. That's why your energy energized who knew. I mean, was it really eleven hours? I'm going to get up a couple times, but I went right back to dead sleep. Dead slate has love that sleep. Twenty blankie. It was. So have you ever been in the dead dentist, Dennis of sleep and you wanna wake up and you're telling yourself wake up like you need to wake up, you just physically can't let your almost. I feel like it's like an altered state. It's so bizarre. Yes. Like you actually what's happening around you, you physically just cannot open your eyes. Oh, I don't know. I would have to be very, I feel it would be like if I was like paralyzed or something and like I know, but I swear because that's because it's like, you wanna get up. You just can't. I don't think so. It happens during nap time for. Oh, well, I'll tell you there is no tired, like pregnancy tired. Oh gosh. The way I can explain it is you are tired to the bone, really? You're bone tired and I know everyone out there. Let's bregman. Let's bregman whereas had children's like. Bone tired and why? What's like the scientific sort of? I have no to that growing. The life is exhausting. And when you have other kids to chase around, you cannot. I mean it is a tired like you've never. I had to go in the car and just sleep. Like when she was working in just rise Jackie O really I couldn't keep my eyes open. I had to go in the car and go to sleep like crazy. How did I mean? You know me, I'm go, go go and especially with cocoa I remember like just, you know, getting everyone back from school and putting them in the playroom and like turning on something or and walking into my bed and just being like, I'll just Glenis by is for one minute three hours later. I mean, it was crazy. I would fall asleep. I had been begged chairs in their playroom, do ya? Yeah, I would lie down on the beanbag chair and out. Oh. That is crazy and you can't take anything. You can't even have a Cup of coffee a day. I don't drink coffee though. Not even back then just to keep you awake. I had stopped drinking diet soda, and I started drinking it again because I was so tired. I felt like I needed caffeine. I mean, now I drink beats, but I feel like I mean, I'm sure you could drink beats while you're pregnant, but always ask your doctor. Yeah, I like natural. Yes. In the actual that gives you energy, I think would be so much better, but you're just exhausted. Gosh, that sounds awful. It's awful, but that thing you slept last night. I did. That's good. I feel so much better a man, these last couple of weeks just take it out of me seriously. So are you going to be able to take a carry on to New York, or do you have to do a whole check in situation? I've really been thinking about it. I think that if I was super the problem is I have too many pairs of shoes. Yeah, because of the different looks I have for press and none of them are appropriate shoes for New York walking or the weather. However they work with by outfits. So there you go. But I definitely have too many pairs of shoes. I don't know if I could do a carry on, but the thing is we're traveling with the bellows. Yeah, am assuming they're going to check. So if they're going to check, what's the point of the same flight as you? Oh, good. I think so. I'd better check that if they're checking luggage than I might as well check. 'cause we're going together, but if they're not, I'm might be able to manage. It's really the shoes by cosmetics. Yep, I say this. What sucks about cosmetics? It doesn't matter if you're going for three days or three weeks. It's the same amount of cosmetics. I mean, how much do you have? I know I've paired at all down. Oh, I'm good. Really for me, it's the the hair tools will the shoes for sure, but the hair told it's like you have the straighten her, the curling iron. The brush like the toiletries, like all of that is fills up my whole bag. Yeah, I've, I've pared the whole thing down. The only thing for me with the tools is that I like to bring that Dyson blow dryer because it blow dry so fast. I don't have to like if I needed to make room, could not bring the blow dryer and disease the one at the hotel, but I have to bring the straight ner and depending on what the trip is, I'll bring the curling, but I knew Dyson curling. No, there's an Dyson curling iron. It looks at. What do you do with it? Literally, it's so it's like it looks like a vacuum. But like like a circular. Iron, like normal killing iron right. But like super chic. Dyson does it and it sounds like a blow dryer, right? So just basically sucks in your hair and it twirls it and you hold it there and the new release it and no, no, no, it's around it. Oh, have yet. But this one is so I don't know about it. Let's get it. I feel like I have to show you show me. I need to see it right now. It's it's about. Curl is beautiful, the curler and that I have now I don't remember what it's called, but it's got a mini clamp at the bottom and you clamp it and you hit a button and it turns so it turns the head hundred dollars. Oh, it's so their stuff is so expensive. It's worth it. Their stuff is so good. Right. Yeah. I'm all about very easy because I'm not good with the curling iron, and if it's hard to do the back of your hair, but thing is this one, it the offices, killing your hair right with this. It just seems like it's going to save me from having a chop all my hair off eventually because I have all dead ends. Yeah, I it just it's hard to anyway, so back to my packing situation so so I don't need a curling iron for this right event for this week. I don't think now might rain one of the days where they are. So there could be a pair, doesn't require any styling tools and and then I'll we're straight k. so I don't know if I don't know. I might be able. To get into carry on. Yeah. Okay, good. The last thing you want is your backs to get lost during press week. That would be bad, bad, bad bad? Yes. Didn't think about that. I know. Pluto. TV is the leading free streaming television service watch over one hundred TV channels and thousands of movies, on demand, all completely free. Puto TV never asks for a credit card. You don't even need to sign up to watch free. Pluto. TV is the easy and completely legal way to watch your favorite TV shows and hit movies for free. So what are you waiting for? Never pay for TV. Again, come on, go download, Pluto, TV. You can download Pluto TV for free on all of your favorite devices today, including your phone, Roku, Amazon fire TV, apple TV, smart, TV's, PlayStation, and anywhere else you stream Pluto? TV is the leading free streaming television service watch over one hundred TV channels and thousands of movies on demand offer free no credit card needed. No sign up. Pluto. TV is the easy and completely legal way to watch your favorite TV shows and hit movies. So what are you waiting for it? Never pay for TV again, download Pluto TV for. Free on all of your favorite devices today. So we've got a comment about last week show. About the gifts situation when they open that dying to hear love you guys. Listen to today's podcast and twelve and I know Natalie, you cannot contribute to your own. Thank you, stop. Nobody. No, do not pass go you guys. You guys go looking together. That's one thing, but you shouldn't monetarily contribute to your own engagement ring. I don't know. All right. Second Heather's birthday, I think you should express a Terry that you don't want a party just an intimate get together as for his gift to you. Tell him you want something thoughtful and sentimental and let them brainstorm it. He'll have to do some work on this one and you'll have to let it go. I can't believe I'm saying it, but it's true. That's my two cents. And yeah, I agree, right. I agree and I don't expect him to plan my dinner or my party. I'm too controlling for that Dan honest with you, you just want a hint of sentimental something. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's call it what you want to wanna get. I wanna give to because first of all, I'm sorry. Is it bad to say gifts? No AK. It's part of the. Love language. I like I like again, that's my language by me something not. No, no, I know. Yeah, I like it because you already have the quality time, right? Which is what you get was one of your love languages so that check the box. You got that you just missing the other love language. This is what I want. I want a beautiful dinner at home with the kids k. and you. Oh, just like we did last year. I loved it. I want caviar champagne. I want to make an insane meal. I wanted to era mechanic coffee and and something that Amanda makes that's vegan and that I want to do that I really do. And then I liked maybe on my actual birthday to dinner at Terry alone. And yeah, I'd like like some. Yeah, I agree. He needs to do some work on his to do something. Yeah. So I think he should think about what he wants to get Terry. If you're listening, you think about it, think about it. Then the only other question is and then we'll celebrate when we go to Europe, but. Might lather. The only other thing is, do I want to do like a small girls luncheon like we did for holidays last year. I think you need to. Maybe I listen to your girlfriends are going to want to celebrate you anyways so that whether you planet or they planet, which I'm sure they're going to do something that. Big, I roll people big. You know why? Because it's just there's exhausting Austin, then everyone's schedules. Everyone's this and everyone's that. And if you invite these three people, you have to fight those twelve people. And now I don't like that. Yeah, I, the reason why I liked the little holiday lunch we did last year is because it was the perfect amount of people and it was people who are all just there was no, like there was no one extraneous. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know that part I'm thinking about, but anyway, get me again. I still haven't figured out what we're doing Christmas new years because we're going to be home. I know. Do you feel like it's going to be more mellow, like saying the house to something cool here with the kids you are the actual Christmas day and we'll actual new years? I don't know. I mean, winds are probably gonna want to do something right, like party with their friends or get very last minute. So I don't know what they're gonna do. I don't know. I haven't gotten there yet. I just need to get through New York and Halloween after Halloween. I'm then going to start thinking because we've got thanksgiving covered. So then I'll start thinking about the. Yes, let's talk about the New York trip. Yeah, you want to do it. I laid out all my clothes. So this is what I do. Samara stylists comes over and we're like, oh, these things are perfect for New York, and then I start trying like know maybe the no. Oh this, okay. And then we lay everything out and we add accessories and purses and whatever. I'm pretty good at. Consolidating like, I don't need to bring on a trip like this. I don't need twelve different bags k. you like to reuse a reuse, because unless you're doing a red carpet, sort of thing, people aren't really looking at that stuff. And I'm not Katy Perry, so no-one being photographed everywhere I go. So it's okay. So I'd rather consolidate that and have it be a little more user friendly. So we lay everything out and I take pictures of everything. So I put the whole outfit and the shoes and the earrings and the purse and whatever. And I take pictures of everything and then I put it on a rack and then that's how I pack and I go through and make sure I have everything. And then after I'm done with all that, I add like one just in case thing, and I had a couple of scarves into my well, I'll tell you what I put in my carry on afterwards, but. So I do all that. And then what else do we do? You pack your jewelry? I'm really bad at packing. Really? Yeah. So when I buy something, I always keep the box and if it's nice and I always keep the little bags than jewelry come in and where I keep my luggage, I have boxes filled with boxes and jewellery little pouches. So whatever it takes up so much room when you have to box everything. So I have fancy ones and not fancy ones like I have a tone and I have some Chanel little leather like boxes that are made specifically for jewelry. So they have a role in there to put your watches or your bracelets on, and they have pouches and places for earrings and all that kind of stuff. Right. You don't have to get an expensive, one like that. That's a good thing to buy k. because it keeps control of everything. The other thing I do if I'm if I have a ton of stuff and it won't fit in there. Like when I go to Europe, if we're going, we're going for two weeks. It won't all fit right in the little Chanel thing because that's made for I don't know four days kind of thing. But if you're going somewhere epic and taking lots of different, big costume jewelry, earrings necklaces, and things you need more space. So what I do is I take a big box like from a belt that I bought, and then I put all the jewelry individually in jeweler in like pouches that they came in, and I just stack them in the box. And you check that bag in? Yes, that doesn't scare, you know, do you ever travel with like expensive stuff? And if you do have that with you in your bag? If I if I have real stuff with me, I keep it on my person. Okay. Yes, I don't check. That just scares me. Yeah, I don't. I don't tend to travel with a lot of real things. Yeah, because it's just asking for trouble. And if I'm going to wear something real, I'll wear on me. Right. So if I'm going to wear a necklace or you know, rings our like the expensive rings and wear them. Yeah, so I don't have to pack them, but if there's like an extra watch or something up, throw it in my purse, but it's never apart from me. I don't put it in the overhead compartment with me. Okay. And honestly, if you know if you're going to go to the bathroom on an airplane and you're by yourself, you take your purse with you or you have that little jewelry pouch or where your money is in. That's in your bag. Just take that part out and take it to the bathroom was Martin. Yeah. By the way, you know what I wanted to mention. I have this friend named as long as we're talking about travel tips. I was really going to tell you where we're eating, which I will. I don't really know how I got on the tangent, but we'll just talk about an if you wanna see more travel tips. You can go to my YouTube channel Heather's closet because we did a couple of episodes. On this. So I have this friend named Pam Hogue and she is a flight attendant for American Airlines, and we met on a flight and she was so sweet and I started following on Instagram because she is building this little house and it's, she calls it tiny home, tiny living name is Pam. So she calls it pomace day. Oh my God because she's very into yoga and everything. It's funny. She she direct message me though dishes in Bali, traveling with her brother and a friend, and they were so cute and they send me pictures. But what I loved is she's if you wanna follow her her handle, it's Pam Hogue, but it's backwards. So it's like map. So it's you. G. o. h. two two. So if you spell Hogue Pam backwards. How do you explain that map? Yeah, yoga to to write and she's just she's an incredible person. She gives back, she's love. I just love this girl. But she's doing through her travel. She's giving tips so here her flight tips. So I like never remember. She's she's a flight attendant. She goes bring a pen. Yeah, I always travel with a pen DO. I always have a pen. She says, places required documents that needed to fill out a mini crew don't have extra ink. So it's true waiting for the Penn borough burrow pant guy, borough pen. So you always have a pen dress casually hip when travelling. Okay. Why? Why does she use the word hip? Let's she's very hell, but you know, the thing is and I've read a lot of articles about how if you ever want to get upgraded dressed nicely. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't. Yeah, I, I've told you this before, but my mom always made us dress fancy on airplanes, but I hate when I see people dress slovenly, an airplane, like PJ's holding their pillows of that. No, don't do that. I mean comfortable. It's to me, it's the same thing as what you're wearing walking around the house. Right. You know what I mean? Like. What I mean? Like little JAMA's just just come on. Yeah, look nice. You can wear sweats but put it together. Yep. She said where your shoes to the Lou Bondo WC toilet of plane by the way. Yes. Yeah. Are your shoes by the way, not your socks you ever seen? How much liquid is on the floor of the bathroom. It's disgusting. The take your shoes off in your walkman your hotel room in the same socks that you were in the bathroom in the in the airplane. It's no grows. And as long as we're talking about this and she didn't say this, okay. For the hundred time, please bring socks to walk through. If you have to take your shoes off, if you do not have TSA pre check. I still see so many people in bare feet walking. I know I used to do that and then you just change that for me. Can you imagine how many feet have walked across that that thing we and then here's, here's how you do it. So you and you can't walk across in your socks either because you're still getting that yet gusting stuff and then putting your shoe back on and then taking them off and walk into your Otell room at home. So what you do is you have either an extra pair socks or just a pair of socks in general. If you're not wearing them, put them on, walk through security, take the socks off and then turn them inside out. Yeah, we're have a baggy something please. Okay. And then she says, bring a book to read a notebook to write in, and this is what I love learn how to say Hello and thank you in the local lingo. It always brings good luck on love that isn't that so got is. That's very cool. I just love her. She's such a cool building, the tiny, tiny houses. Those are becoming so popular. Oh my God, but it's so cute and she. Had everyone right on the walls before they covered the walls. And so I sent her a little quote and she wrote a for me on the wall that is so open her houses. So keeping you look at all my gosh, I have over friends pitch in like, she's got a friend that does this, and he can't have built her a little patio. And she's got a friend that does that came over and made this cool sync for her is cool. I hope everyone's watching our new segments by the way because they've been fun. I don't know what that was a random dot. Okay, anyway, so back to the travelling. So what I put in my travel Mike carry on, I always have wipes, antibacterial wipes. I wiped the whole, Lisa Wren and I are always DM maybe other laughing about this a good girl. Okay. So he did because I feel like we're probably the only ones that do this, but you have to wipe, although Tony Olsson does this to our friend, Tony, you have to wipe down everything including the button that you push to recline the seat belt, the seat belt, lock the screen, everything. And then when you go to the bathroom. After you wash your hands, you take your towel that you dried your hands off with an open the door with it, right. Then throw it out and close the door at the elbow. This is a, this is a process. It is a process and then wipe off your shoes when you get home. My new thing is I clean my luggage yet and the wheels. Oh yeah. I never thought about that because you're wheeling that same show in your house and your bedrooms grows. I know I'm coming Germany. I can't help it. Okay, so I always have wipes with me. I always have tic TACs with me. Mildly tic TAC, obsessed. Have a pen. I always have my air pods, and if it's a long flight, I will bring my ipad and my beats duping bring charter, I bring a charger. What's so great now with planes is a lot of them have regular plugs. Yeah, with the USB so I but I always bring one. I bring a plug a white cord and a black cord, like a morphine charger. I always have extra charging block with me just in case. I have my money, my credit cards. My ID I love. I love love. Love. Clear. Clear. You mean like the the travel service? That's not what I put in my bag, but I'm just thinking traveling in general. So if you guys have seen the TSA pre check lines lately, they're almost as long as the regular line. It's crazy because any that was going to happen because everyone applied for TSA pre check or they also put give it randomly. But I mean they randomly will just give people TSA pre check. Really? Yeah. So that line is so incredibly long. Global entries, amazing if you're traveling abroad, because you know, instead of waiting on that Disneyland line, you go up to a kiosk, you put your passport in there, it scans it. It gives you a little receipt and you go right up to the guy and you go, thank you but buys done so. So nice so done. So the thing about clear and I, I had gotten an Email about clear a few years ago and so I signed up for it and I was like, okay, and then I forgot about it because no one had clear it was only in Las Vegas, and then all of a sudden we were in Minneapolis and we walk up to the to the gate and the TSA line was so long. And there was a clear line and he said, are you clear? And I was like, yes, I am. So we went up and there's like these little kiosks and I had finished doing it yet, so so they did it for us. And you do your fingerprints and you do a retina scan, and then they get you in the system and can't remember how much money it is a think. It's like one hundred seventy a year. Maybe something. Like that. And I think that when you sign up people underneath you, then it's cheaper for your family, what family friend sort of rate? Yeah. If you if you refer people, you get a discount on I, then there's a family discount rate if I want to say. So, yeah, I remember when I did yours and here he was way less expensive. We did his at the thing. No, we, we, we did the same Yang we right because I had done it that way and we signed Terry up online down. We went to the airport actually. He's finished to try to do it together that we, it's just less. It's yes or new. You can add them onto your family planning thing? Yeah. So anyway, so we did the clear thing and now you don't even have to plot your ID so cool. So scary and cooled the same time. I love it. I mean, I walk up in Minneapolis, we get out of the car. We walk in the airport they go, oh, hi. How are you guys? Because now we know the more because with their every month and you go up to the kiosk and you put your fingerprints down and it goes, hi, Heather, and your picture pops up, and then you put your phone down with your with your boarding pass, and it says, thank you. And then they walk you right through past security. So you still have to walk through the security thing. We've TSA pre check so we don't take off the shoes and then all that I. So if you travel a lot, I highly recommend this and I'm sure with kids, it's probably so much easier so much easier. I love it. Okay. What else is in my bag? I always take an extra pair of contact lenses, like I have a little makeup bag in my bag, which I've shown you guys before, but especially when I travel and make sure that I have a lipstick, Mike konczal beauty conceal her. I have natural tears. I have a pair of contact lenses. We know Natalie doesn't because you was this pair for seven years, and that's it. A rubber band? Yeah, I have a ton of now. We're traveling international. Oh, I know what I wanted to get. I think it's Fendi has a travel kit is that did you tell me? But a travel kit recently? I think it's a Fendi one take they've a new travel, get what it was like a like a like a blankie in an an I shine mass thing. Yeah, really think that was it. I gotta find out, I love. I love you know, I always travel with scarves, but when you go international, there's something about that in intermix one year bought me this travel blinky cashmere blanket with my initials on it, and it's so divine. And I bought Terry one year for Christmas, I maybe it was Brooke stone. I can't remember it. Got it from, but it's like a Kashmir I'm ask and like little scarf blankie thing, my God, it's so delicious is, but here's the thing if you're going to travel with something like that. And if you're gonna travel with a pillow, which I see people do all the time, please don't take that pillow home and put it on your bed. I know. Oh, wash it. So gross. One of the most important things we do for our health everyday is brushing our teeth yet. Most of us don't even do that properly. Quip is here to change that with sensitive sonic vibrations. It's general enough on your sensitive gums and not too abrasive like other electric toothbrushes. 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It's time for you to live your best life and hosts, Liam Messer, Lindsey, Riley, and Brian, Scott. Here to give you the tools. You need to empower yourself and live life to the fullest. And when you're in a place of self worth, that's when you don't feel that need to kind of put people down and to judge other people for where they're just like, this isn't right for my life checkout life, reboot every Wednesday on podcast one or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Now back that Heather do Bros. world where we're gonna go. So this is how I believe the trip out because of the press and everything. So we're landing on Sunday by the way, as I said, this already happened by the time you're hearing this, but this is the plan. So let's tell you what the plan is. Let's see how it actually happened. So we're flying in on Sunday and we land around seven, we will may or may not have to get the check luggage if it's there and wasn't lost. And then we're going to check into the hotel. We're staying at the puck rot hotel, which I've told you. I love love love not only other back-row glasses in the bathroom. The bar is divine. You haven't been there. Have you know, do you have a whole wall of like different shape and size pictures, somewhere art, summer mirrors, but they kind of light up from behind some of them and they change colors and it's so beautiful and everything in there is Bacharach and these served all the drinks in Bacharach glasses, but the colored ones. So they're red, champagne, flutes, greened out. So beautiful and. Everyone in there is dress so gorgeous Lee, and it's just quite an experience. So we're going to stay there. Oh, and they also in the rooms like on the desk, they have on the corner of the desk. There's like a circle that lights up and they have almost a like a crystal. Think about what like a like a cake plate looks like think about a crystal cake plate sitting on top of this circle on the desk, but the circle lights up. So the whole cake plate is lit from underneath. Yeah, and they leave you like little chocolates. Oh my gosh, on the lit up cake plate, jeez, and then on the and then leaning on the just little details like the mirror in the room. If you want to check yourself is a beautiful, huge framed mirror that's leaning against the wall. And then they have a bulletin board with with a ribbon that's crossed like. Like a ham, discuss pattern and they have things stuck in there. Oh, cute. Like buck, stationary, postcard, and it's so I mean, the details of the hotel r so beautiful. The sheets are incredible. Just everything and the products in the bathroom were all Lemaire. Oh my gosh. That's insane. So it's so extra. But talk about experience. I mean, that's like definitely, yeah. The one time we were there, it was when it was when Harry and Meghan we're getting married and they have this where you check in. They have, I want to call it like a cell on, you know, just like living room very long, like a bunch of rooms strung together and in one of the rooms is a very long table. That's got a trough in it. I think it's got, no, no, it doesn't have it has bulls on it filled with champagne. Oh my goodness. So they did a high tea and a fashion show in honor of their wedding and all I didn't know about it and we were there to press. I think, anyway, but all the women were dressed like they were in England with fascinating hats and dresses event for it. That is. So they had a fashion show of wedding dresses and things it was just unbelievable. I, I love stuff like that. Gosh, what other hotels and would you recommend for people to stay in New York? Okay. Okay. So I remember this random, but when my dad passed away, we stayed at the palace and I did not like it. And one day they made the bed and didn't put like the bottom sheet were mattress protector on the bed for the kids who was gross, but my sister stated the hotel and they stayed in the towers at the palace. Yeah, and said it was fabulous, really. So where we in the low budget area, I have no idea. I thought it was where we stayed in that hotel was very tired. I didn't like it at all. I just didn't like it. So maybe you'll have to that was the second time we'd stay there too? Yeah, not impressed, but maybe you just need to stay in the tower. I also am not crazy about the location. I like a place that you can walk out and walk around and there's things there right? Because I think used to like staying at the the London up and down like the meat packing. Right. Oh, I love that too. But if we're talking about like in the fifties, which is a really in the fifties. And six avenue, which is such like a nice central location because you're in the Middle East. You can go west, you close to the park and then takes a longer to get downtown. But we'll talk about downtown in a minute, but I do like sang at the London hotel because it's an all suites hotel. So you get a little bit of a bigger room. The restaurant downstairs is nice. The only problem with the restaurant bar downstairs is it's not open very late. So if you were going to the theater or you'd have to find other places to go. But I, I love the hotel. The rooms are really nice. I think the staff is great and they're very, very accommodating their, it's not far from buckle up. They're kind of in the same area. I also really like the four seasons. Four seasons is beautiful. As a matter of fact, we're going to go, hang, I love their bar. Their bar is amazing. It's gorgeous. They've big bowls of red roses. They've this huge wall with. An LED screen on it and with images of New York and all. But it's gorgeous. And the Bank Bankhead is like velvet. There's red colors in there and you can eat there. So they have a very nice light bites menu and you can get cocktail just a nice place to sit especially if you're shopping around fifty. Seventh and fifth, which is where like all the fancy stores are like Chanel, endure and the mothership Goodman. If you're shopping in that whole area, it's a great place to sort of pop in rest. Your feet have a little glasses champs. Yeah, love that. So those are my hotels up there, but there's also what's the little hotel. The Mark, I stayed at the Mark. Very, pretty very pretty in the bar is very tiny to boot hotel. The the the bar is beautiful, very, very small, little stars, their restaurants, very pricey que did not eat in there, but it's very pretty, but very pricey. Le for for if you're going to stay midtown uptown. Like I love those hotels. There's a lot of other little boutique hotels, and there was another place called. The Surrey Surrey. I think it was the Surrey, which is the upper east side, and I know they've remodeled it. I stayed there years ago when the twins were so little. I think cat was a baby, but what I liked about it was they had kitchens, oh, like each and each room had its own little. Okay, that's cool. It was a suite with a kitchen is reasonably wasn't. I mean, nothing in Manhattan is reasonable, but it was pretty reasonably priced and you know, listen, go staying at hotels, whether you're at a resort, or you're at city wherever you are, it's expensive. So a lot of hotels will give you like a mini fridge or a coffee maker, which is great because you can always go to a local store and pick up breakfast stuff. I despise feeding kids breakfast at hotels. The room service is just a fortune. It's a fortune on nothing and they eat nothing. Yeah. And even if you go downstairs and sit with them and then they want to get up at the crack, Don, it's a fortune and they eat nothing. So to have a little kitchen. And just be able to cook an egg or cereal or anything like that is just really, really nice. And when I travel with the kids, by the way, I always pack snacks in my suitcase, that way when you're out and about it's not an emergency, if like you, if the reservations not for half an hour or you're waiting on line, I always have pirate booty or pretzels or almonds or just something with me. So they don't go crazy. Okay, downtown. I love staying downtown, especially when the weather's good because I love the Highline highlands. Great. Highline is the elevated train track where you. It used to be the elevated train, and now they turned it into a place to walk. Yeah, it's byu. It's so cool. There's art when the weather's good. They have artists out there. The people playing music, they have stands. You could buy fresh popsicles and an end. There's people outside sunning themselves and there's all kinds of buildings. Yeah, you know that you could people live there and just walk out and they hang out is very cool. And you could walk all the way down and you're looking at the water as your as you're walking the hallway down people jogging some people just walk and then you get to the end and you turn around, but it starts at the standard hotel. Got that is a great area. So that's the meatpacking district and that is so so cool. So the standard hotel, I only stayed there one time. I personally did not like it Bravo. Put us there for something. The bed was on the floor. It's ultra modern, but I will say it's Oltra inexpensive. I think you can get a very reasonable. Mhm there. So if that's a a need for you, I, I would check it out. They have a rooftop cool barred, they're they have downstairs. They have a beer garden, and then they have a cafe and then they have this beautiful outdoor area that's like got hanging vines and flowers, and you could just sit there and people watch. And the bathrooms kind of funky downstairs because the men and women are separated. But you could see through thinks are back to back. So you could like you'd be like. Very strange, but it's cool and there's a photo booth on the way and they do karaoke nights there. And they also they do big drinks like they'll do these huge old-fashioned champagne coops like those rights ashen champagne glasses, but it's enormous. You can share with everybody and they put five straws in there and it's just so fun. So we like going there a lot in foods, really good. She could stay there. We usually stay at the Ganz of ORT which is right there. Great service great rooms and what they have in the bathroom. You always have to be careful at the Ganz aboard because if you come home and you've had a little too much champagne, you end up opening everything in buying everything. Oh, no, yes. Because they leave you products like shampoo and all that, but they also it's like a store in your bathroom. Yeah. All kinds of like they're sexy time. Prada. Leo. Yeah. And there's also skin-care. There's makeup, there's chocolates. There's there's beauty tool. There's all kinds of things you could buy. They've stuffed animals anything. That's so it's so cool. I love that hotel and I just that whole area just to be able to walk in that area is so spectacular. Okay. But we're staying this time at the Bucker up k. So those are hotel. Those are hotel. I'm trying to think what other hotels. I can't think right now, but I'm sure I'll come up with something else. I've never done an Airbnb Manhattan, but I would think if you're going to extended stay, that would definitely be an option came. Okay. So we're flying in and then we will check into a hotel and then we're having dinner at the polo restaurant. So this is Ralph Lorenzo restaurant. I've never been to the one in New York. We're supposed to go last time and we didn't go because Paul didn't wanna go there. He wants to go to Malino that night and everyone I knew happened to be at the polo restaurant that night. So as bumped. But I heard it's amazing. Paul. I have been to the one in Chicago, which is amazing. It's very rough, Laurent it really it's exactly how you would picture it. It's like one hundred club. So it's so cool and I am wearing plaid pants. I was like. To pull the reservoir or leopard. I wear plaid pants or wearing clown pants. Meanwhile, hard to pick out outfits for press this time because it may or may not be raining, right? There's a lot of walking and I had some turtleneck outfits, but you can't put on a microphone when you've got a turtleneck. It's really hard. And then there was like a tucking in not talking in that they have to put the mic pack on you. There was a lot of issues with in. Yeah, so I'm doing a few dresses, but anyway, so we're going to the polo restaurant Sunday night. Then Monday we have press all day until like four. And so at four, I have to have a bite to eat because I'm doing watch what happens after that. And so you don't do that to like eleven o'clock. So we usually have a late night meal, so we need to have a little snack. So I thought because we're going with mica dancing, I figured they'll be shopping. So we're going to meet them over at the four seasons right at the bar, right and hang up there and have a little bite drinks, whatever. And then I'm gonna. Rancho relax. Take taken nap. Yes. Okay. Then get up. I'm going to redo myself and go to anti. You're going to completely get ready again or do you just touch up? Oh, you mean my face or yeah. Do you wash your face completely and then redo? I think I usually wash my face in my life take off and I think I usually I think it depends what time I get back to the hotel, right? If I get back to late now, right then I'll just judge. I don't know how any does it that must be exhausting to do that show every night. Yeah, it's just so late. I know, but I probably yeah, you know what I mean? And then I'm sure you know you hands up going out afterwards. I mean that you aren't home until two AM one one. This shows over what at eleven thirty? Does the after show eleven forty. Five takes a pay. He could be owned by midnight. I haven't been to the new, his new studio, really? Yeah. Oh, cool. I haven't been to the new one I'm looking for. Yeah, so yeah, I don't know what he was, but we always go afterwards to blue ribbon, right blue ribbon is the coolest place ever. So blue ribbon is this restaurant. That gets on Sullivan street. They have a couple of others. They've got like blue ribbon sushi and blue, but this is like blue ribbon. So it's it's really for like chefs because it's only open from eleven pm to four am so cool. So it's like when other chefs get off work, go to blue ribbon. I wonder if he's been there have to ask him. I don't know. I should tell them about a food is incredible. I love the atmosphere and it's hopping. Yeah, so we don't usually get there because by the time we leave watch what happens live. It's probably we'd probably get there at midnight. Yeah, and we'd probably leave by two to thirty and it's hop it, these that crazy. So the thing that I loved their, they have incredible bread. I love crusty sour dough bread. So they've great bread. There. They have a lovely champagne list, and then they have something called. I feel like we've talked about this restaurant for, but I'll just tell you they have something called war Matza. Okay. So when you go for Chinese food war, one ton is is kind of soup and. It's a one time soup. That kind of has a lot of stuff in it. Like they put pork in it. They put this pathetic, but this is war Mott's soup. And what I'll tell you. It's kind of an amalgam between one tonne soup Matsu ball soup, and fuck yum. So it's, it's there's a big matzo ball in there, and there's one tons and all that kind of stuff, and they're shellfishing there and they also on the side, they bring stuff to like sauce it up like you do with THAAD. They bring like hoisin sauce and they bring bacon, but it's like aids like the fat cut bake. Oh, so good. It's like an explosion of flavor. Oh my God. It's amazing. So we'll eat their late night and then sleep in a little bit. And then we have a full day of press on Tuesday. We have a little break in the middle of the day. That's the only place I'm trying to figure out because we're going to be downtown. And so we have like a like an hour and a half break. I need to find a place to hang out and then. We finish our press and then like end of day and then we're going ill, Malino, yum, that's your favor. I feel. The Lido now there's a few different Ilma Malino so and they've built one in Vegas really. And there's one in midtown Manhattan, but the original one is downtown and is an Elizabeth street. I can't remember, but ill Malino. It is the best restaurant. I, I mean, I told max when we took her last time, I'm like, it's the best pasta like your overselling it, your overselling. And then she ate. There's just like it's the best pasta it's the best would've ever had. It really is a bring you so much food before you've ever ordered anything and actress love it, and I get the proper Delhi, and my lovely waiter there who I love and all the waiters are talian and they're so cute they take care is is is amazing. You know, to huge flask of lemon cellos and and my lovely server always runs against me a bottle champagne because they only his house yet. You know what I mean? You feel like you're at a dinner party? Yes, it is. It's examining talk to you all the stuff that they bring because you're not even ordering and they're just bringing things you're like, oh my gosh. And it's very New York me. Meaning it's not like it's actually it's not a fancy restaurant, but people get dressed right, but it's not decorated found in that amount of you feel like you're in Italy. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love l. Malino so we're going to go there for dinner and then Wednesday, we have another full day of press. But we're done at like four. So I'm going to see my family, which I'm so excited about. See my mom see my aunt Barbara, uncle, Tony, and we're taking them to our happy place. Right? Which is quality meats, which I love. I think quality means is by far away. Like when it's like an not a specific, like Chinese or talian. Continental restaurant. I love quality meats. Okay. And what are you order? Okay, so they have this yummy pull apart bread, right? Oh, it's kind of like monkey bread, but dont. Sweet, right? It's so good. So we get the bread and then we get a lump crab cocktail. I know you're nothing from the sea, and I know you do eat fish now. Did you try the lump crab? I don't think I did when I was there usually try lump crab because it's not fishy. You had like lump crap. It's delicious burger. We did do the birth. So we get a lump crab cocktail the start, and it comes with all these different sauces. And then I either get a burger or I get steak and their burger. They only have it lunch just FYI because and this is how many times have been there. I know that the meat grinder does not fit in the dinner prep station, so they can only serve the burger at lunch. It's a very good burger. Although now that I've had chef Amandas burger, you're like, which which I said, oh, what kind of meat is she goes? Oh, well, let me tell you what she tells me like three different kinds of stakes that she had. Ground. Oh, fresh counter. I'll have to find out about, did you see the bread she made for me the non non Kar bread? Yes, the cauliflower, Brad. Okay. So it looks crunchy. Yep. So here's the thing. So my friend Bihar looked it up and showed me the recipe, but chef, Amanda has a different recipe, and I will get it and I'm going to share it with everyone because this is the best thing I've ever had in my life. But if you have to like, brioche, do you know brioche bread is like very rich and very soft in the middle. I don't know how she made this, but what she did was in basic terms, she took cauliflower, egg whites, a little almond flour and garlic committed garlic bread. She used vegan cheese. Okay, because when you look up a recipe, there's parmesan in it and parmesan are really good binding agent. So I don't know how much people usually use in there, but there's no carbs in this recipe, and it was crunchy on the outside and soft in the inside, and it was the best thing I've ever had. And she just gave me like to, I'm going to say to like two inch squares of it, and it was the perfect amount. Her portions are very good. Now that's smart, but it's amazing how in the food is so flavorful and so good. You're content like you don't even need you, right. We're abundance of Utah yet. Yeah, it was unbelievably delicious. Yes, you're gonna have to put up that recipe. I will put up the respite. Okay. So or maybe I'll show Amanda making it. Okay. So back to my quality meats meal. So I get the burger or the steak and then I get they have buttered at Amami. It's out of the shell and they put meant. And then I get steamed asparagus and waffle cut fries. They usually serve from with parmesan, but I can't eat cheese, so I don't get them with parmesan, and then they interior has desert. And I watch. I've asked them to do vegan cookies and they haven't yet. Not yet. I'm pulling for it. We'll see. It's really the restaurant is cool. It's very, it's kind of industrial chic. It's just really, it's been there for a long time, isn't they have another restaurant called quality? Italian? I'm not a fan of, but quality meat is just difficulty meets in Miami, right? They do. I've been doing okay. Yeah, I went there. It was good, but the one in Newark is just fantastic and I love everything about it. The servers are great. The food is so consistent. Amazing. So we're going to do that and then we're going to see Pretty Woman. So excited. I'm so excited. My mother's like why out of every show yachting every show? Well, you know what? The there's a couple of shows. I haven't seen that. I would love to see that I really wanna see mean girls over, but then like that's new. But mean girls. First of all, I have such weird connections to mean girls, first of all, because Dina's husband Mark directed the movie and also my friend, Larry, who wrote the music to the musical heathers. Right. So I also have a connection to through Mark's brother. Danny who wrote Heather's Larry's wife. Wrote all the lyrics to the show mean girls so random. Isn't that great? They're so talented, I love them and I really want to see it, but cat and KoKo wanna see it so badly that I feel like I have to wait for them and because we're staying in town for the holidays. I'm wondering if there's like a two day period of time, I could sneak to New York with them and just see if you show that would be. So wouldn't that be like maybe as part of their holiday gifts? I don't know. I, I don't know if it's possible, but I'm, I'm going to save it and they're dying to see SpongeBob that has a musical. Oh, yeah. So it came out last year and I saw a clip of them on the today show, and it's incredible really so clever and so well done. And I said to them when we were there last time I was like, I should go see SpongeBob and they're like, I'm not seeing SpongeBob. So ended up taking max see dear oven Hansen, and they went to go see school rock, which was all. But then and cocoa started watching clips of SpongeBob and they're like, oh my gosh, we go to. So then it closed. Yeah, because it's reopening a bigger theatre. Wow, they did that. Well, they did that well smart, though. It is so good and the guy that's the lead is SpongeBob crazy. So the reason why I wanted to see Pretty Woman is because Bryan Adams wrote all the music and I love Bryan Adams, and I just thought that is so cool. Yeah. And especially, you know, Terry's on a huge musical theater guy, and neither is Mike, and is I thought this is a really good digestible show for them. They already know the story. They like it be palatable, and it's Bryan Adams writing. So we're going to do that. And then I figure we'll go back to the backup bar right afterwards and then backstage to, oh, we're going to go back yet. So excited and then we'll go to the bug route vibe, and then what time do we leave on on. On Thursday. It's later in the afternoon. Okay. So we have to just figure out, I don't know. Maybe we'll go through a run through central park. Maybe we'll sleep in and have a boozy lunch at Fred's by the way, if you want to go somewhere fun and very New York key for lunch, if you go to Barney's, you go to upstairs. I think it's the sixth floor. Fifth floor at Barney's Fred's k. must it system us? Yes, it's lunch. You go there for lunch and it's awesome. Cool. That's a great place for lunch. Where else do I like to eat? I like belt czar very quintessential. New York. I mean before the Pinera's and the pan coded e- ends of the world you'd go to his are and they have those loaves of bread. It's like if you walk in and like just it's a French bistro. Beautiful. They have one whole wall is like aged mirror and everyone's French in there, but it's bistro French. So you can get a burger and pump free. French fries in muscles, and it's so fun. Great atmosphere. It's great for brunch. It's great for lunch. I love easily Italy's. Very cool. It's a multilevel place to go. They have food stalls so you can buy fresh pastas and sauces and all kinds of things. And then they have places to eat cafeterias and fancier. And then there's a rooftop underneath Zing. I also like where else do I like to eat? Oh, you know what? There's this little place that's over on the east side called Bella blue and it's just a little restaurant, but it's so good. They have the best Bucatini and they have pizzas, and they have chicken pie hard, and it's a great little place. Eight. Oh, I love the Meatball. Shop k. the Meatball actually, David Hale term you under the Meatball shop. The Meatball shop. Oh, if you're going to go walk, the Highline started go to the standard. Do you have a drink there? You walk up. Start walking across Thailand, and you can walk down anywhere you want. So if you walk down kinda halfway down the highlight and just look up the street where it is, the Meatball shop is down there and the Meatball shop is meatballs all different kinds of meatballs and their incredible, and they serve them a little brioche bread and then they make, I can't eat this, but everyone loves us. They make homemade ice cream sandwiches. Oh my goodness gracious. But the first of all, I've met the owners. They're so cool. So down to earth, the food is incredible, and it's nice. It's not like a hole in the wall. It's like a nice cool place to sit and eat. It's amazing the Meatball shop. Oh, Bagatelle. Yes. So if you're staying downtown in that area of the Ganz of ORT by the way has really cool rooftop bar. Overlooking the water fun. Bag tell is next door. It's gorgeous. It's all white. It's crystal chandeliers. It's very cool, modern art on the walls. The servers are gorgeous. Everyone's friends, big bowls of champagne everywhere, and I've never been there for dinner only been there for lunch, but on Sundays, and they have probably told you guys, but if you don't know in Sundays you have lunch there brunch, whatever it at two o'clock, they closed the curtains and it becomes south of France, nightclubs sparklers, DJ dancing on tables, so much fun. It's fun. It's crazy God. I love that God. I wish we had a little more New York here really cool spots to go to. And I mean, LA is not as bad. I'm in Orange County though. It's just like crickets. There's nothing to do. So we were with Curtis stone last week as you saw on e news. I was talking to him because his inlaws live down in. Orange County, and I was, can you please open a restaurant because that place that we filmed that? Yeah, Gwen Gwen butchery and restaurant, the food betas was divine. The restaurant is so score Judy. I mean, it's just so cool and it's not even a big space. It's small, but it's just you'd any beautiful and the food is amazing. You please open a restaurant in Orange County. He's like, well, you have havi airs. I'm like, there is one. So true? No. Okay. That's a really good list because I feel like you're just always getting asked. Where's your favorite? Where's your favorite place to go? And would you like to eat? Would you like to stay? So I think that was a really, really good sort of lay out even what to order, which is crazy because people always want to know what does she order, what does she order? But that's my listen. I don't always eat the bread and I definitely I plan it out. Obviously, I'm on the road i-it constantly. That's the way I live, so I don't. I manage when I'm eating, but when I do eat, if you're going to do it, you have to like it accordingly. Like you've, you know that you wanna eat the bread at such and such like make that the cheap meal or or just have one piece right? Just planet out accordingly. And here's my other tip, even if it's your favorite item at your favorite restaurant, sometimes it's not always great if you take a bite and it's not the best donate it. We need to do send it back. No, what I'm saying is like I love the bread at. At like a blue ribbon, right? But if it's hot in great and why waste your Hillary's right on some that's not really gonna satisfy you if it's not. That's what I'm saying. If you take a piece of the bread and like it's kind of thought you meant like your meal that you know, I meant like if it's like the bread. Yeah, yeah. Or like order the fries in there, overcooked for you or something you like you don't want to send it back. You'd want to do it that it's fine. Just don't eat them. Yeah, it's should be worth it. Yes. Yes, should be epic and it should be worth it. Yes. I'm so excited. I'm excited for you. I can't wait to all right. Well, we have to go, we'll we'll. It will continue with this tomorrow. Said this all your questions. Let me give you the hotline again because I feel like I haven't given you guys the hotline in a while and I love love love getting all of your questions and comments by the way. Don't forget to become a subscriber. Oh, it's nine four nine four three nine five one five nine. That's where you should. By the way texting is the best way to do it. So text us and say, hi and gives your questions. Don't forget to become a subscriber of Heather's closet. Because first of all, you'll be the first one to see the next part of the house store. I love how much he goes early enjoying it, so that's cool. And. And also we're going to do giveaways. I know I'm actually really excited about that. Yeah, it's going to be pretty cool and they're good giveaways. Yeah, it's not like here's a hand tell right, they're going to be epoch. So become a subscriber. Thank you guys so much for the support and we'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to Heather. Do Bros. world download new episodes every Tuesday at podcast, one dot com. That's podcast. Oh, any dot com? Is maybe we'll choose my lip. We know own stars goes honest. Tell me what you do to me. Confrontation ain't nothing new to me. You could bring a bullet, bring a soi bringing more, but you can't bring the trophy to me. Alexa, play Kendrick, Lamar and says, okay. With Amazon music, avoid all you need, get tens of millions of songs, download the Amazon music app today.

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Justice Leagues & Nightmare Scarecrows

40 Going On 14

1:47:24 hr | 9 hrs ago

Justice Leagues & Nightmare Scarecrows

"Never say that cooney. Never say hello everybody. Welcome to four on fourteen. I am mike. I'm patrick. I'm joel and i'm josh. And there was a time when everyone said you know that zack snyder. He doesn't understand the dc universe an then jazz. Weeden comes up. He's like hold my beer and get me another beer and give me a sandwich. It's okay sweetheart. I created buffy. Ouch ouch he's not asking around. Who that guy on the set all right. Well flat thank you. Thank you very much. Be here all week at this week. We are going over. Uh justice league's when we are talking about the justice league cartoon from the dc animated universe back in two thousand and one and then we are talking about joe joe sweden dot the swagger cut of justice league two thousand twenty one joscelyn's. The snyder cut doesn't quite a hot mess. If you like hot messes you might find your hot mess on geek life radio. In addition to us their shows such as the history of bad ideas which Mike konczal were recently featured on the anime trap house. Html all those things and of course geek. Life radio's own raddatz radio. Our the sh- mortgage board. He's got the whole world and as hand has got the whole fire. Ns hands that know. How many times do we have to tell you. That's not the one before you realize. That's not the one. I'm not the one guy he wrote over way too fast on that. We're not yeah. It's not he's he's going to bring that one back he was like now have he's gonna sneak that up on us later like a cold finger in a prison shower even drop the soap. They call that the old cosby. Oh and how wouldn't pop drop the jello. Nobody they call that the huxtable. I didn't even put on a sweater. Josh my god what's happening. I'm ju- just waiting for you till everybody where we can be found. I know we can be found on Apple podcasts. Google podcasts blueberry. We are on a geek life. Radio twelve noon on saturdays. Listen to us while you're doing your weekend cleanin we're good cleanin. Talk are with makes you wanna stick your head in your oven and scrub it out. We definitely make you scrub something. Yeah or stick your head in the oven you can also give us a call at seven wait now rap come to my world india oven seven seven eight six six nine nine seven two seven Definitely give us call. Let us know if you're thinking of a a Podcast idea or you can find us on discord and there is discord link on our facebook page. You can click on and join the conversation. Just actually quite lively like all the time. It's because if i'm not asleep i pretty much always have discord at work at home in. The bathroom doesn't matter. I can be reached same even when i'm at work. I can use to be on discord even when you're pooping especially when i'm pooping you've proven to work. Sometimes on that note. I think it's about that time. It is week music movies. T and straps what what stops sports backwards uae okay. Rice joel gets up and leaves it on. If this is joel's thing this week gotta. I approve all right so this week. We're going with november seventeenth two thousand and one the release of the justice league dc animated universe pilot which is a bruce timm animated series. Yes that right yeah. I know that name was in the credits. I saw it so that it's there somewhere. I got one right right so music and the number one song and a land was. I'm real by jennifer lopez featuring gyro. That's songs us. I didn't know that time. yeah. I can't even couldn't play know it and you know what because had so much radio play. There's no way you wouldn't know it and then you go. Oh yeah that. That's how does suck. That's why you don't remember it Put somebody put it on on On the old jukebox on the bucks. Yeah i wanna prove my point kick out the jams. Women fake forty to say that's enough of that. That's the worst thing i've ever heard. We need to find a way to link directly to the chorus of a song. Somehow because you would know the chorus. I don't think i would. It sounds vaguely familiar. Probably heard it had like a store. Something perhaps because he sounds like that homeless guy that i was with shout out and underneath the bridge when i was working downtown. I think he was john ruling under the bridge. Maybe after fire fest cuts going to bleed a year ago. That a super topical after the documentary came out somewhere. Wyclef is shedding a tear. He'll be gone till november. I i don't. I don't think our listeners. Come here for topical humor honestly coming to a show. We're talking about things in the past won't start to those middle aged guys who live in the past to find out what's happening today. They've certainly got their fingers on the pulse of the culture that alone. I did something new update on on music for the week posts. Bologne did something else. Oh right so thomas. Lee flanagan was an american jazz pianist and composer influenced by art tatum. Teddy wilson nat king. Cole was in months of moving to new york record with miles davis and sonny rollins recording under various leaders including trade and wes montgomery led to him. Becoming ella fitzgerald's fulltime company is after leaving fitzgerald after almost two decades flanagan then attracted praise for the elegance of his playing in his forty five year recording career. He recorded more than three dozen albums under his own name. In more than two hundred aside man. By the time of his death on november sixteenth. He was one of the most widely admired jazz pianists and influenced both his contemporaries and players. I'll i'll appreciate these kind of entries where i learned the name of someone who i should have now. Yeah someone who's career expanded like half our lives deputy. Yeah yeah it's always nice to hear like hear about somebody that you've heard a million times but you didn't know anything about him right that influence so many other people that probably are like. Oh yeah i know him. And we're like did he ever work with post malone. Just did a thing. He did a thing. All right. josh grogan released his debut album self titled josh grobian on november twentieth. His eponymous debut all right all right so albert hague led to the highlight of his career appearing on the office point and he had his own show briefly. Let's ride. he had like a talk show. didn't he had a tv. Show a cop show on netflix. Wants yeah the the good the good cop or something like that. Who am i think that had a tv. Clay can tv. Show for the low moving on. I tech roman jobin just jovan. It was called the good cop with tony danza. And josh gershon. Oh my god. Evening of up-to-date. Mike's gonna wanna find something we can do a show about. We watch now no one season. We'll do it against tend to be browns. You oh see now now. I'm on board now. you're talking or chico. And the man moving on albert born albert marquette was a german american songwriter. Composer and actor whose broadway musicals included plain and fancy redhead cafe crown and the fig leaves are falling famous songs. he wrote include young and foolish losing love. And did i ever really live. He was a composer for tv musical cartoon. How the grinch stole christmas. He also was an actor most notably on the tv series fame where he played. Benjamin shroff sqi the music teacher. Who was a part. He originated in the film of the same name. Hey also played a small role in the movie space jam as the psychiatrist and the players who the players go to when they lose their skill in quotations hague and his wife renee occasionally presented a cabaret. Act as hagen hague his hits and his mrs. that's morass. Mrs albert hague. Clever title mean it is actually overtake died at age. Eighty one from cancer on november twelfth and was promptly absorbed. Tammy joel stein and finally may laundry service is the fifth studio album by colombian singer and songwriter. Shakira globally released on november thirteen. It is the first album to be primarily recorded in english after the release of her fourth studio album and the end of the week d. e. i l. questioned a sense for insulting on leon. Do you don't need to ask their insulting. Not that was actually A spanish title. Of course because you know secure us so it was don day estan loss. Llodra is which is where. The thieves myers. The laundromat was laundry service. So don't ever albums is about some sort of service so this was. Where do i pay my utility bill. A laundry service. I cannot find the plumber. Please directly in working really. All her songs are just teaching people how to speak spanish. That's pretty clever. It's a good idea. Shake was actually about the plumber. It was originally called. Pike's don't lie this album which became a success. In latin america secure was encouraged by glorious stefan to crossover into the english language. Pop market initially hesitant to undertake. The project secure decided to learn english well enough to be able to write her own songs herself yet. She can shake her hips of any lynch. Those ships lie that is for certain indeed right moving on the movies. The number one moving the land was harry potter and the sorcerer's stone. The first of the acclaimed film series of films based on the best-selling harry potter novels. It was released on november sixteenth. At harry i mean that was a pretty audacious project just like casting the same kids and trusting that they're going to go through all of the movies like developing their specific characters in their specific talents and every single one of them basically at eleven years old. You're telling him all right well. You're going to be a superstar the rest of your life so within but it gave the world daniel radcliffe. So thank you harry. Who's doing whatever the hell he wants now and doing it. Well as guns akimbo. You have not seen it. it is on my list for. Everything's on your frigging list. How can you watch so many movies and not making any progress on your list. Because he's making the list. Oh because i keep adding more every life. The list is living is more appropriate. It's my current checking it twice. You'd never get anything next weekend. I think it is that. I have it scheduled so it is going to be watched very very soon and i will report back rights. Charlotte noonan coleman was an english actress known for oranges or not. The only fruit wars will gummidge and most famously as scarlet in the film four weddings and a funeral while attempting to come back after some years without work on november thirteenth. About feeling unwell in the next morning there was no reply when she called when they called concerned. Her mother went to coleman's flat only to find her lying unconscious on the floor. She was taken by ambulance to the hospital where she was pronounced dead on arrival from a massive attack of bronchial asthma. Wow i didn't know she had passed away. I didn't either. I was kinda sad when i realized that it was. Oh let's add. Thanks pat no problem. That's what i'm here for wars. Just terrifying mcnutt four weddings and funerals. Come from all of you. Do you know the wars will ages. I do not that in the chat. That's working aches like nanny. Mcphee's brother is kicking to life. Is that mackenzie shock. Chuck how mr l. knows not me. Personally i was gonna say Is it per tree or is it. patrick troughton. That is definitely virtually all the remade. This we may have a show out. You're right it's poetry okay. I knew was one of the doctors. I couldn't remember an under the makeup. I was having a hard time. I just wrote it off. The poster says starring. Jon pertwee doing a simple way to do it. We're not doing a worzel gummidge show but they remade it. Oh my god. We don't talk about everything i think. Goodness or the new ones even more terrifying. They remade world war one. When i want to talk about that. When are we doing the world. War show shouldn't have won in the now late in those two those two photographs. Which one would you wanna see waiting for dark alley. He's top one. Yeah the second one looks like davy jones's bastard son. Pirates of the caribbean. The i'm imagining those things growing up faces like why are we talking about this. The audience can't hear what. See what we're talking about. I'm gonna put it. I'm gonna put it on the show post. He looks like a potato. Somebody left out too long. He did he looks like he's got like is. The potato is grown out of his chin. Yeah that's creepy now. I want to bake him. We're back to potatoes again. Patrick all goes to potatoes. The hair nightmare is. This is another words worth old gum grid. Yeah oh what. The hell passes for children's tv in great britain. You're never going to escape. Bortles will go mitch. Because it's got the next bullet point. I think the new kevin smith movie look at the at the bucket. On his head made it the pump. That's not okay. So tv guy with said like a like a pompadour. Yeah and he's wearing a motorcycle jacket helmet. Yeah don't wanna bust that mellon man. Alright tv top shows and land were friends. cs. I e r and everybody loves raymond. Sounds about right. Yeah sounds good The other tv shoes that debuted this week included the bernie. Mac show thirty minute. Meals sara's secrets and the popeye show was talking about twenty truth in the year. Two thousand starring post malone. George cadogan gardner mckay american actor artists and author. He's best known for the lead role in adventures in paradise based loosely on the writings of james mitchell character. Adam roy was a korean war veteran who purchased the tomb acid eighty two foot schooner tiki three and sailed the south pacific. The show ran for three seasons on. Abc from nineteen fifty nine to nineteen sixty two. For a total of ninety one episodes. The case settled in hawaii where he died from prostate cancer on november twenty first at the age of sixty nine. I was really really hoping that that was going to be died quietly on the beach with a drink in his hand but now the different time man thirty episodes per season. that's not. Hey now honestly. I personally would like to have a two masted eighty. Two foot schooner. That'd be awesome. So he likes crimes or i just traveled around a hundred bridge. Or what almost kind of like a like an early anthony bourdain. No reservations type thing. I would imagine wasn't it. That's what i'm guessing that. Well but i was guessing it was more like a boat version of the motorcycle is let's say ventures paradigm that it was more like a magnum. Pi versus the bridge or something. Stop talking about the bridge to lick the cambridge. I'm all i'm just saying that's right now. I'm not. I'm not change in teams for this guy at all but it looks like a guy who would sail the ocean on a schooner a handsome fella. He's this is going to work because you wearing one of them. Nautical sweater sweaters. No oh no. He is looking at he harry. He looks like he's wearing one. I know that pipe manly man that is. He's that genius that guy. I looks like a late fifties. Henry cavill does he show manley. That's why prostate cancer killed him because he wouldn't let any doctor stick a finger up there. The he sailed the south pacific looking for passengers and adventure. The plot to deal with the romantic and detective adventures of korean war veteran. Adam troy was. it's probably like I hate to closer to like tales of the gold monkey type of thing. I don't know that actually sounds like something. I would watch it actually does. It's not know wars will gummidge but what is. Also the victoria's secret fashion show was broadcast on television for the first time on november fifteenth with one point two four million viewers for point four. Sorry dolph point four. Do you remember when andrea football. No when they had the victoria's secret fashion show and televised and they had the prodigy on. And the i remember because all the The models had to walk past the prodigy while they were showing every single one of them was like look aside eyeing He was gonna randomly attack one of them at one point or another. He made the pretty girls nervous. He was a twisted fire. Starter viktoria secret devised starring worzel gummidge. New all right moving on sports home crowd. Favorite lleyton hewitt wins his first of two season ending tennis masters cup titles with a six three six three six four victory over frenchman. Sebastien grosjean think is how you pronounce it in sydney australia. The hell is that the chat gordon gene or gene. John gruden garage scene. Grow seen in a chat. And that's another thing that popped up. When i looked up Gummidge oh stop it. And lastly a seem remond versus lettuce. Look lennox lewis the second billed as final judgment That's not that's not correct. I seem remind versus lennox lewis to not let lewis the second thought. Little sun read right past that. Wait a minute nope. I don't feel bad about one point. Four million people seem remind versus lennox lewis to build as final. Judgment was a heavyweight professional boxing match contested between unified. Wbz ifp i b. Ibo and lineal champion a seamer remond and former undisputed heavyweight champion. Lennox lewis about took place on november seventeenth that the mandalay bay events center in paradise nevada lewis defeated remind by fourth round knockout mandalay industries industries. Lewis yeah he was impressive. The second or the first shut up. Yeah he was impressive. He saw george. Foreman was doing good idea. Name on my kids. Lennox lewis to eight hundred place us off keyboard joel. That had that that that is. That's actually the that's wars dude in the costume. That's a potato headman. It is the guy with the that was missing. An i in in Pirated caribbean oh the one pirate. Yeah yeah it is so my davy jones connection was perhaps correct her her so in two thousand a one bruce him Was the working on the dc animated universe already known for the hit show. That was batman. The animated series. They let him in to be doing. The new show rankled justice league. Is that the one with With mark hamill batman the animated. Yeah and this one actually has mark hamill also mark camels kind of like a stand by the dc automated universe for joker awhile. Yeah but no. It's it lasted for two seasons and from this eventually came justice ultimate. Which in retrospect we should have done that show but roots justice justice league unlimited is a better show. It's also a little closer to now. And i think the reason we went with because it was closer to our old definition for what then was. Yeah that yeah. Two thousand four was justice league unlimited some but has a standard bruce him triangular. Torsos you if you've seen batman the animated series you one hundred percent recognize the art style on this one tiny legs tiny legs little little feet square fingers This is also got some directing by butch lukic and dan reba and joel also in here Storyboarding done by Bret blevins for twenty episodes. Yeah adam van wick. Bob smith james tucker joaquin dog santos or joaquim dos santos and rep levins and which lukic were all story board artist for this one and divall have very strong comic backgrounds but No so this one lasted for two years. Dove into some alternate honestly alternate characters. But things like aquaman they had him on there with the hook hand you know is kind of a new direction for animated animated dc. Always kind of been dc strong suit. And this is. I think With batman the animated series as a direct through line for quality dc animated stuff And this was really. The start of the redemption for aquaman is a character. I mean from a joke People having him as blood of the guy. He talks the fish but Yeah this this is the start of. We can see Progression from this version of akron. All the way to jason momoa very clearly. This isn't super friends. Yeah definitely but this has kevin conroy. Coming back as batman. And bruce wayne you know the voice definitely. He has been the voice of batman. The animated series for forever. Also jew george newburn superman slash clark. Kent and also. Dj rubber ducky newer though. One think that's right Susan eisenberg does wonder woman. Princess diana fill. Lamar does green lantern. Slash jon stewart. Michael rosenbaum does of voice of flash And also wally wets also. Does the voice of dead shot this. Awesome carl lombi. Martin manhunter john. John's and maria canals. barrera does a hawk powers. Boothe has grill. Grod clancy brown. Excellent as lex luther. Keith david barrel. Michael dorn as back. Drink a hecker. Lozano's cracker robert england. As felix faust owed pam grier is maria mark. hamill as voice of solomon grundy. An joker and jeffrey jones william cats udo kier are all heroes and villains says Green guardsman doodo. Kier is a music master. His weapon is an accordion. So that's fun. Michael mckean's in the same episodes as a sportsman Looks just like a bob. Hope and he he fights by hitting golf balls of people as you will. I wish i was joking. But that's it. Alfred molina as gustav ron perlman as klay face and ryan. Stephen root is catman. Tom sizemore metamorphose arleen. Sorkin come background as harley quinn and then rob zombie as a clue it khufu. Are they do that. Through example excess and khufu mix together basically. Just put an i do. This is the first on the trivia The first animated show to feature the martian manhunter goal also in this green lantern and hawk girl started to have a romantic relationship grow as the series progressed. The producers decided to pair these two characters together since both were no nonsense warrior. Types with green lantern having a military background and hawk were hawker coming from a very warlike planets The relationship originated for the show as a two characters. Never had a romantic relationship in the comics They also would have a fake backstory and fake synopsis for hawk girl because eventually she betrays the justice league so they posted online. All the all the comic chats and all that that a different suit. Keep the whole idea hidden that she would eventually turn on them so the entire marvel family and overloaded characters were unable to appear on the show due to legal reasons so they wanted shows. Am and everybody else heard. Every in there in fact the creative team had planned to use captain marvel in the justice league hereafter where they think superman dead But they couldn't clear an appearance so they used logo instead which is kind of a weird replacement. Yeah i know you're going from crispy clean says. Am to logo. Which brad garret has logo. It seems like a word choice to me. Oh yeah you almost kind of looks like lobo to although several actors reprised their voice roles from a show is batman the mid series and superman the animated series conspicuously absent. is tim. Daly who voice superman now pat. You commented that you didn't like the His voice voice. Nope didn't care for it. I didn't either He was unavailable because he landed the lead role in the short lived television series the fugitive. I was annoyed by the superman voice. It wasn't just me. No than superman was big wuss. That was also something that was on the the extras on the dvd. Bruce timm said that after like three quarters of the way through the first series of i saw season there were looking at the online chatter and they. They thought they were doing this. Conspicuous oh making it more dangerous because of off it could take down superman. This must totally be totally be dangerous. It could totally kill. The russell could knock superman down. But then they realized they pushed in the far and everything was not superman down. They turned him into warf pretty much offer giant empty plastic containers like him versus the current like in the justice league. Movie that we'll talk about later night day you know once god-like and the other one is like how i just stopped my tell however on the other side of the voice acting. This is a fourth consecutive. animated series. Starring kevin conroy. Bruce wayne in batman batman new batman adventures bat and beyond and not including parents and other shows so kevin. Conroy definitely knows where his bread is. Modern it's invoicing batman and he loves it. Oh yeah he loves it. Yeah because everybody knows that voice to make the show unique. The producers decided not to use established superman and batman villains. That they had used in the past on the other shows the show featured Presented really good opportunity to choose from all the different dc villains. Such as vandal savage doctor destiny felix faust and guerrilla garage. The only established superman or batman villains that they used were lex luthor and the joker both were on the injustice gang They want to try something different for as long as they could before. Going back to using established batman and superman villains and season two. So that's why you had I wasn't discount guerrilla grod in the first episode on the first episode. You had martians ono. The one where lex luther in the in in that in human brain cocoa yes. That's it coco wear but yeah they. They had a lot of weird ones in there. Likely the shadow the shadow guy with a. Here's a tap hot top hat and a black carries a black cane. He control shadows are a lot of like out of the left field type villains on the first season when it comes to obscure dc villains. You got the wrong crowd. I'm memorial fan boy. And i don't think the other two were that deep into the big too in terms of comics. No i don't think direct. I mean i had my share of dc stuff. But yeah. I can't even any any of them outside of the big ones and the ones around mike super friends and stuff when i was growing up. So i'm assuming this is a first ewing for everybody but me. I wasn't sure but was it. Turns out it was justice league unlimited. That was the one i'd already seen. Not this okay. Definitely for me was my first same so going going from honestly from the bottomless our for the least interested in comics out of all of us. Patrick a i got. i watched the first three episodes. You know the pilot storyline pugh aliens. Interesting I didn't know who the hell old hot girl was. I didn't know. I heard you guys talk about the martian manhunter guy. John john. john jones. John john's john. John john john john's on john. Yeah well okay. I thought that was ridiculous. Things by the way that i thought about him was they when they first when he when he was i found by superman. He's got the pointy head and he's got all muscles are no closed. Everything's like i could change. My appearance at will will also here let me change my appearance or something more pleasing to you. There's less off putting and literally all he does is just take off a couple the sharp edges and put a cape on Like you can make yourself look like anything. Just make yourself look like a human at that point like if you're trying to if you're going through the effort of changing your appearance blend in just go ahead and just go all the way. Just wait till you see him. In the snyder verse. Oh yeah oh yeah you. You may not have this point. Haven't you get a brief glimpse of him. But you don't get a good a good gander until the almost the end. The guy from the last starfighter. I hope so or enemy mine. Which one nine. He kind of does figure like how they would update him for for today. Here eric stoltz in the mask. No yes no. He's not he's not rocky. I watched The first seven episodes. And i had hoped to get to the joker ones Just to see mark. Hamill do his thing. But i the only i'd seen some of the or batman the animated series when we did our best month so is familiar with bruce timm style and i seen bits and pieces of the show due to you know my nephew and was really into batman and watching it. I don't totally get the appeal. I know that's not going to be a popular opinion. But i was okay But superman was way to tone down and annoying Banded is saying Our man was interesting. I don't know how he's gonna go to the bathroom with that. How can i guess he just piece in the ocean I like seeing hawks. I like hot curl and hawk man i was. I've always been a kind of a of a casual fan of them. I mean it was it was it was decent was better than your average cartoon but i still don't quite get the the mass appeal. It was better than most cartoons. We have to watch for the then right. Like if you're comparing to the original voltron which i still love. The reasonable trend is way better. I didn't care for the animation style. I don't like the bruce timm giant barrel chest. tiny leg look. I mean you you get to a certain point everybody you know like the next guy who is supposed to look even bigger than the other guy now suddenly has six foot wide shoulders and he looks like you should not be able to walk at all. He should be falling over every time he stands up. And just. I don't know it's it's it's a little too much. I don't see. I was a fan of like i've repeated several times justice league unlimited and i am not as down on it as these other guys but it is very very clearly a kids show and i found superman annoying and almost seems like every single hero and villain like the heroes are incompetent at the beginning of the episode. Gas like they forget their powers or the flashes tripping over shit or for some reason. Martian manhunter doesn't go invisible incorporeal when he could and then the villains like invariably. There's a bunch of them and one of them wipes the floor with the entire justice league at the beginning but by the end of the story there are legions of them Heroes are killing effortlessly. Once they learn to kill the first one the rest of them are just easy as pie. And yet i found that a little off it seemed like powers kind of convenient based on the needs of the story. I think part of it with the with the heroes not being powerful in the first one. Because you've got justice league you've got superman you've got batman wonder woman green lantern. You've got some solid state capitalist superheroes from the dc universe and as it was a kid show. I think what they needed to do was kind of make him a screw up a little bit and very beginning. Otherwise there'd be no there's no risk yeah and i think is a failure of writing. I mean it is a problem. That superman full power. Basically you effortlessly destroys any of these delist Bad guys that's that's legit but the answer is right better now. There were some weird moments like when The episode. I was trying to think of was in season to where they discover that they discover that lex luther has cancer from handling cr- kryptonite so much and have given him six months to live. It's interesting twist. yeah it was. It was kind of weird. It was injustice for all. So yeah he's terminally ill. So he gets a teams up with the now again. B-list villain the ultra. Humanite is who. I was trying to remember earlier. Is that gorilla white grill instead of guerrilla. Grod we've got the big brain And his plans to kill superman because he blames him for him having kryptonite poisoning so he enlists chitra tara. the cheetah couple of the other other other heroes are villains. Come in but it's kind of funny because like they've got batman tied up in the basement and he's got these shackles on this laser beam around and keeps the martian manhunter from Seeing him and all that stuff going on so he's got solomon grundy and the ultra human humanite guarding him and he pulls the. Hey salomon how much are you getting paid to do this. I bet you're not getting paid as much as you know this guy here. And ultra human is going of course. He's getting paid less than me. Look at me. i'm a genius. And they get into a fight and he almost breaks out that way and then he actually straight up seduces cheetah were. They're making out by the time. The next person comes down for their shifts. Watch batman i've ever gonna say seduce salman crunchy. That's that's another thing but yeah he's like he's like got a cheetah crawling all over him in sticking her tongue down his throat by the time that they got. They got a little weird for a kids. Show it's like. They wanted to do a show aimed at adults. But i don't think early two thousands like now. There is more than the lion share of animated shows based for adults nowadays. I don't think two thousand was really the window for it all now. You've got adult. Animated superhero shows like invincible. That we've discussed on several occasions recently. Yeah and this debuted on cartoon network's they also had to kinda do kind of watch because this was already on it wasn't like on. Hbo or something like that. It was on cartoon network so they had to tiptoe around some things and they actually had to. They had the one where they go back in time that they have a world war two. Were they fight the nazis. But they're not really. Nazis type of thing was bad attitude. Yeah they're just very angry men with helmets they also had a couple of cool things in working with About with a cartoon is that this was one of the first cartoon speech shot and delivered in wide-screen really Yeah and the The storyboards the animators were like look at all this room. We can put so much and and after listening to them. Talk about it. It's actually kind of evident because you have a lot of when the battles seems going on and there's a lot going on there's a lot of set-piece there's a lot of background painting and that sort of thing All happening you can definitely tell what they took. Advantage of the wide screen bruce. Timm said he's like eventually there's going to be released on dvd. And i know wide-screen is wide screen is coming and i want people to be able to watch it this way. So was one of the first Wide-screen cartoons. that's awesome. So how would you compare this. With the batman animated series. I don't know. I think batman the animated series was a little bit more adult. This one was. And i think it's the of superman that does it. This is going to be a few years before you've got kind of that. Proof of concept probably started with the x men films like cemented themselves. Because i can't remember if this was like just before or just after the first x men film which is going to be the start of like the modern superhero thing. Two thousand when i exit movie came out okay so it was out but it had not yet like wasn't quite the proof of concept is it would be like a couple of years. Yeah it was. It was before the studios realize that people wanted to see good superhero stuff. So i see that. They tried to push the envelope. A couple of these things. You know like superman dying in the season to the one with one where they replace superman with logo. Which again was kind of confusing. Still strange strange concept. Well i mean. They couldn't get zam so they went with lobo. So that's great but no it's a i think. Four eight a kids cartoon. This is a solid one. I mean this. I've i bought and own the two seasons on dvd and be partially because it was one of those that i kind of enjoyed watching. It's kind of fun goofy. Like i said it's not too super serious that i have to pay attention to what's going on. It's a good stuff thing to have on in the background and to the kids could watch it and i didn't have to worry about what they were watching. You know there wasn't anything that i would you know like now if someone goes oh was a superhero cartoon on On amazon oak can make kids love superheroes. I bet they'd love invincible. Someone's going to make that mistake. Someone i bet. I bet there are multiple people. That have made that mistake. I bet i know people that have made that mistake already. But you've got some kids that are probably now fan of that cartoon going to read the comics and become like us see. That's even worse. I was gonna say nobody wants that. Sorry kids this is definitely a big departure from super friends. At least oh yeah because when you think of dc animated super team that's the first thing that comes to people of our ages minds and i wasn't quite sure i figured it was probably not gonna be that route since Batman animated series was not. I was a little worried But as soon as i saw the scene where commands brother ties him to the side of a cliff that slowly sliding into a pit of lava with his infant son. Crying next to him. I'm like yeah. This isn't you know the same man and the same show that i remember growing up with. And then when he came back and he's missing a hand he's got a bloody stump and they've put a hook on it a mike okay so it is a good show but that's not pull them a lot of punches while they couldn't actually show the blood that's why the baby was wrapped in a red blanket That that was actually out of the out of the mouth. Bruce timm on the On the extra day so they couldn't show blood but they wanted to make it look like there was some sort of like something you know. His hand has type of thing and not just like wrapped up in a bandage so they do specifically made that blanket. Read so i went. It's wrapped around his hand. It looks like blood could make it like dripping or anything. but. Because i didn't even. I miss that. I just saw the red thing wrapped around his hand when he came back. I'm my holy crap. Yeah now something else. Did you notice. Green lantern never uses a giant hammer or any of the construct set Hal jordan never used the general said. Yeah that was a specific choice by the writers on this because Who plays him john stewart. Who was green lantern in this series is an ex marine and their their whole thing was if he's a marine. He's just going to do whatever he needs to do to get the job done. He's not gonna screw around with giant. You know earthmovers or i'm going to create a giant hot rod drive people around when they traveled to space. He's gonna make bubble because bubbles are simple. He's not using too much energy when he fights he's use of handling guns so he just has beams in fact. There's only think one episode. Where he he makes a construct and it's the darkest darkest night one on one with senator Eclipse l. an eclipse. oh takes him over and he makes construct it. looks like a giant vital. And that's i think is the only time in the series where he does anything. That's not just like a ring blast or bubbles to travel around and a wall. He never does anything ridiculous. He just does that because their whole thing was. He's a marine. He's not gonna screw around. He's just gonna do this and get it done. He's also in comic book. Lor the first Green lantern did not wear a mask. Oh that's cool. Yeah because he's like. I'm green lantern. I'm john stewart. I don't care you know that was his. That's his attitude in the comic. Also this is who i am. I'm wearing a ask what. I'm glad they didn't go the the hal jordan route because it was you know the the teams already pretty stacked with one skin tone represented so was happy that they chose that. Because you know it's not just young white kids that are watching cartoons and they wanna have somebody to look up to you. That's a good role model and a superhero and i. I was happy to see that they went. That route and the character was interesting. There is a lot of actual dimension to the character Yet he is one of the big green lantern. Yeah yeah he's he's definitely one of the get shit done green lanterns personally. I like Jordan guy gardner just because he does because he pisses everybody off. He's like the big mistake. I was gonna say guy gardner was kind of a. I remember his running. That was around the time. I was collecting comics. And i was like this guy. Gardner he actually. I think he shows up in justice league unlimited. Do they ever do a lantern corps. Show no seems like a missed opportunity. Guess i mean we. We know the lantern corps but how many other people do because there are so many different members and people bet are familiar faces to comic book fans that it seems like it would be a good tool for marketing You know as far as toy lines and things like that's concerned but also make for an interesting show 'cause you could not have it focused on one particular character every week i don't know does decide done well. And they've recently with green lantern corps with all. The different colorings came out a few years ago few years ago decade ago. You know there is the the. There's the red rings yellow rings there's blue rings and all you know because like they all go after a different emotion. So i mean that could possibly be all different swamp things that represent different elements. Sure i talked about that in this one. thank you. Yeah so yeah so. I think we kind of finish this off the only thing i really wanted to say before we move on. I know i kind of dog this. But like i still can't completely like write it off because without this we don't get some of the later. Awesome dc animated stuff immediately after the show that follows it of this league limited. And then you get into stuff like under the red hood. Yeah yeah there's just so much great. Dc animation stuff. I can't say even though. I did have some problems with this. That i totally didn't enjoy myself because i see the foundation being laid for some stuff that i really legitimately love. Yeah and i think it's kind of like i said at the beginning. It's definitely a the beginning of this show also at the beginning. It's the start of them learning where to take the dc universe and they've taken it from this all the way to off you've got a chance to see Justice league dark. That's another one of the animated ones that has Dead batman deadman hellraiser. He'll blazer john. Constantine and i forget who the other pro- The tano as a team up yeah and also just to tag on something. Joshua's about The long halloween is headed. The animated world here shortly. Yup and hushes already done so i still have. I have the The dark knight returns. And i've seen some of it. I was pretty impressed with it. But i haven't actually sat down and watch the whole thing yet. Tell yeah i mean i'm. I'm happy that they're doing that. Because again like i said at the beginning of this before you when we first started talking is dc may not quite figured out the whole universe in in live action film formats just yet but the the cartoons have been killing for a long time and So yeah yeah if you if you do get a chance. watch Gotham by lamplight. I have original. Mike renaud a comic book. Yeah it's oh it keeps them mike noticing. It's good it's a good Like it patrick. Gotham by gaslight was was a was it fun to read. Yeah yeah. It's like if batman was around at the turn of the century hunting jack the ripper. Yeah yeah. it's it's pretty. Dark was good all of the batman. Gotham no. I liked the doom that came to gotham. Which is a lovecraft autumn. Oh yeah and the. The penguin is very disturbing in the doom. That came to gotham cool. Going to have to put that on my list to the list to everybody all right. I think we're good with this one then Yeah all right well when we get back. We are going to talk about justice league. The snyder cut the four hour and two-minute just who has been going on this year so we'll be back in a little bit. Was more justice league. Say who who are. Who are okay. We are back on. We're gonna talk about the the four hour extravaganza that is justice league. The snyder cut so this came out in twenty twenty one released by warner brothers and in the pedia. It says it suffered a difficult production putting it lightly Major changes to the script twenty sixteen twenty seventeen. Snyder stepped down during post production. After his daughter died in joss weeden showed up and was like i'll take care of this and Set everything on fire. We didn't oversaw reshoots and other changes that incorporated a brighter tone and more humor and cut the run time down. Significantly accordance with a mandate from warner brothers The theatrical version of justice league received mixed reviews. It was a box office bomb and Warner brothers had to take a step back and reevaluate the future of the dc extended universe and all the films they they had planned so almost immediately after the release of the justice league. The weeden fiasco People started back initially got the nickname justice league creating a petition online. To release the snyder. Cut the hashtag release. A snyder cut popped up on social media and all the started going loose netherlands. Like all the cider. Everyone wants to see. The snyder cut before anybody even knew if there was snyder cut so nobody even if it even existed is actually holds the record for the most most tweeted about movie that didn't exist at the time. That's a weird stat. It's also i mean it's it's it's a stat i mean it didn't i mean the right. The snyder god didn't exist but it was the most talked about movie for movie that didn't exist but that's creating a record. Yeah at the record. All right right most on a tuesday so this actually leads. Circumstances of this movie were actually compared to the situation with superman too with the richard. Donner cut that. I think we talked about. I still haven't seen that. I didn't but i i know that it's out there but i haven't actually think at one point or another. We talked about that. I don't know why we haven't done the superman show. Have we now know. Okay so But yeah there is a richard donner. Cut the whole fiasco with richard donner for men to. It's very similar to that This is obviously was directed by zack. Snyder and The writing and story on this one is chris. Theriault drill that sounds sounds right. Areo theriault any relation to danny danny twitter territorial any writer. He's also a writer on argo and Stars episode nine will will ball be else alls bells was writer on aquaman and gangster squad so and then some other credits to the creation of wonder woman by willie marcin and jack kirby crane the fourth world. This is a ben affleck. batman joint. Wichita reminds me of the What was the there was a the trivial pursuit heart about. Who's played batman from like the early nineties. Did you see that one honora. Now it says who on this list unnamed named one. The one person on this list that has not that has that has played batman and it was like michael. Keaton val kilmer. What's his name. With the nipples torch clinton george clooney and i forget who the for the fourth one was ben affleck but it was like the four those four names at the time. The only correct answer was michael keaton. That's fine wild about that. Yeah i have to dig off to dig that up but as we said we've got henry cavill a superman clark. Kent amy adams as lois lane. Gal is wonder woman. Ray fisher as cyborg jason momoa akron. Ezra miller is a flash willem. Defoe was always awesome in everything as volkovo jesse eisenberg very briefly. Lex luther germy irons alfred. Which is a challenger to me for best. Elford up against michael sexy. Michael cain I i kind of liked his alfred. Diane lane martha kent county nielsen as queen hip alita. Jk simmons's commissioner gordon and sierran hinz as steppenwolf. So there you go as we were talking about before the show. Also shaky simmons's commissioner. Gordon was fantastic to now. i'm curious. How many of us actually watched the original cut i did. I did not terrible stuff about it. I was like between stuff. I gotta watch for this show and stuff that i actually want to watch things that are universally panned from both sides. I don't have time for a this household a you know anytime. There's a new superhero film. That comes out In either of the universe's or shows we we tend to watch it as a family so when it came out i of course was willing to give it a chance. So yeah i i did. I have seen both versions okay. So you're waiting for my answer. No i didn't see it. But i figured that was obvious. No no no. No i did not see could have watched it in a drunken stupor at one point or another. You may have seen in. Just don't remember it. I don't think so do have a lot of stupid. Yes so in order to keep full creative control and ensure that the fans received the most from the snyder cut zack. Snyder refused to be paid for financing finishing his version of the justice league. Gotta give a little bit of respect there. I mean and you know i. I have to hope that the vindication he's receiving has paid him back in another way because the the tone has certainly shifted on snyder in a in a large way. Not across the board but definitely in a big way. According to zack snyder. The version that we watched tonight absolutely no shots filmed by joe sweden from the theatrical version of justice league which if there's that much of a color shift i can see how that would be jarring joss only used a ten percent of the footage. That zach headshot oh really. Yes which is a lot less. I mean i thought it was a lot more than that well. I saw something within the last week that the original cut that snyder had prior to You know the daughter dying was like three and a half hours or something of a shorter than the one that we ended up. Getting which i thought was interesting. Yeah he went back in was given money to do re-shoots like there's a lot of new material shot four this cut in particular. This wasn't all assembled from footage that was laying around all right so moving on despite director. Credits zack snyder. Never actually watched justice league. Twenty seventeen reportedly has wife and friend. Christopher nolan advise him to never see it as of as that it would break his heart. So i suppose of christopher nolan. I mean if your wife says don't watch us. It's really gonna make you sad. That's one thing. But christopher nolan says you don't wanna watch man. There's a little bit little bit behind that. Yeah i mean it's like this was a passion project for him the culmination of what he'd been doing with superheroes stuff. Since three hundred and watchmen and like they couldn't see through the film because of the suicide of their daughter and so there because they were both working on both zach l. Very yes and when that happens to you and your life you drop everything else in you. Take care of yourselves yeah And the insult to into grievous injury is that joss came in and shit all over it. Yeah that's frustrating. That's gotta be terrible especially if you have something this big and something big in your career and that's something that terrible happening to your life you know in drostan going to make a bad movie out of it. He kind of like he just kind of went in. Burn the whole thing to the ground. Because then he get into a fight with The guy who played cyborg he got into a fight with not only are ray fisher but he got into a fight. With gal gadot. There was a side by side of all of the ages. Joss made removed agency from people of color and women There's a lot of scenes with amazon's who happen to be black who are basically removed to the background. There is a scene with jason momoa as akron sitting on the lasso of truth talking about how hot wonder woman is. There's a lot of shit with people. Treating both wonder woman and lowest sex objects and there was the scene. That gal gadot refuse to film so jocelyn behind her back and filmed it with her stunt double where the flash trips and ha ha. He lands on wonder woman's boobs while. Oh yeah the article. And i'm giving you the short version. There's this long article point-by-point in like every time joss version shit on either women or minorities. I'm not sure i'm still allowed to firefly. I definitely just going into the jk. Rowling bucket people who make these great pieces of art but turn out to be total shits. It's it's such an unfortunate situation to be. And mike. And i don't want to go off on a tangent too far but You know it's like. I just noticed That there was a woody allen movie. That had come out that i hadn't seen and i enjoy woody allen's films but there's such stigma around him now that stigma it's it's hard. It's hard to to watch it and be like. Oh checking out the woody allen film without feel mike. Somebody's gonna judgy. Where like you're doing something bad because you're supporting. So i've i've i've served joss weeden fans are having the same issue. Well it's not like you opened a role in polanski daycare or something like that. The good point you know it's not like You know you're you've got gary gooder blasting you know as you're going to pick up your kids from school. But and there is a difference a little bit between roman polanski. And even woody allen's somebody like jk rowling or josh sweden is the people who are active on social media and pushing certain ideas. Like when you're giving the money it's almost like giving somebody ammunition to shoot somebody else with because these are people who are active in the culture and these views that actually hurt people. And it's like do. I love harry potter. I love firefly. How many bullets do i want to give these people to fire at other people. I care about and if you already own the media is it okay then because you've already already gave him the ball a long time ago so right. I'm not gonna burn my harry potter stuff. But then again. I do feel weird like posting about my house like i and i don't know where i fall in that i don't think you can completely separate the art from the artist when the art artist is still out there gaining influence notoriety or money from that work. I don't have an answer to the ads. It's a weird weird area that is growing but anyway sorry let's get back on task but real quickly was going to say the more you know. We find out about celebrity lives the more that's just going to keep happening over and over and it's going to get to the point where you can't find a celebrity that's going to you know not have some kind of controversial something to somebody just not going to happen. You know. i mean somebody's always gonna offend somebody. Well i mean you know it. It's it's on one side. It's yet you said some stuff like just weeden. He's kind of an asshole. Yeah he's being an asshole he's doing this gal gadoe. He's taken all the minorities out of the background movies. That sort of thing. That's a dick move. You're being a dick roman polanski. He's in there with bill cosby drugged and raped a girl for sure. But like you. You like watching. Lalita does not give him additional social cachet to drug and rape another girl. No no not at all. I'm not saying his crime is not as heinous or somehow lesser than joss or. Jk rowling butts. It's more of a like. How relevant is this dude like. Are you actually helping him by watching the stuff that he's made. Okay yeah because he has not yet because it's not like he's at the forefront of making new movies right now right and that's and there is also something to be said for being on twitter like if you are actively influencing the culture cultural landscape that is a form of power and i don't see roman polanski being in that category no. He was actually got grateful for bill cosby to take the heat off a him for a little bit whereas jack tweeden is kind of embedded himself as a bit of a pop culture corner of the pop culture pyramid that tees dawn like he went from highest. You couldn't be like avengers and post avengers. He is like as high as you can go and he fell about as far as you can fall quickly. Yeah and i do think that if if you've got to have some skeleton in your closet while you're going to like offend somebody for fuck sake punch up like gag aimed at somebody more powerful than you not someone who's already being shit on. I just i just think about what was at the joss. Weeden is my master draw. Sweden is my jet. I t shirt that Like there was a like when he did the star wars off. There was like a joss as my so and so t shirts. i bet. There's a lot of people that are kind of like quietly put that on the goodwill goodwill pile and goodwill's like we don't want this. Yup i found it. Just we'd news my master now. Yep yup so. That's not something we're going to gen con this year. Yeah but that's okay so last last one now. This is not the first time. I was talking about the richard donner cut. Yeah they released superintendent. Richard donner cut. Because they michael towel and baird davis up superman too. And you know. Richard donner cut exists out. There was actually released in two thousand and six. I was gonna say you can see it i. I've been curious to watch it. I didn't know if any of anyb- you've seen it. But i i really i kinda wanna see him so well. It's interesting now that the snyder cut is out in the wild. You've got a whole lot of people clamoring for this to be the official way things are going in Warner brothers initially said no. The theatrical cut is what's cannon. This is a curiosity because the fans demanded it but then just recently the last couple of days. Our friend dwayne the rock johnson. Who is going to be featured in black. Adam has started to put pressure on warner brothers to make the snyder cut the official version of the story. If it feels weird to me that if with the huge up swell of support for the dcu you that's come from this. It seems weird to me. That warner brothers wouldn't take a little more time. Sit on it and think about it and say you know people really enjoyed this versus the other one that everybody just kind of wanted to light on fire so maybe we should take a cue now. My wonder is if there is not a contract out there from jaws sweden that says this is canon. I doubt it considering. He was brought in as a script doctor which is how he got his start. I doubt that he asked for any sort of creative control. In perpetuity. my best guess is that since the ending for this. If it's cannon virtually commits you to probably two more movies warner's just like you know. Maybe we're getting lucky here. But the whole c. Thing we thought we could trust zach and that blew up in our face than we thought. We could trust josh that blow up in our face. And if we go back to zack and commit ourselves to doing the just the evil league. Whatever that lexus creating and the nightmare future because you kinda gotta pay those things off if this stuff cannon by no. I'm getting a little ahead of myself. And patrick has no idea what i'm talking about. Because stuff happens way at the end. Yeah recorders the way through the movie. I- silly silly me. I only four hours to watch it silly you. You know how it is every now. And then you pause for this and that and blah blah blah and in a four hour movie. That adds a lot of extra time. So i don't know if this is too early in the show to ask this question but yeah. This is the first time i've seen it. I assume it's the first time for all as was a joke. Buzzer you know in in terms of the dcu which we've talked about at length in other and other formats. I'm wondering where people write this in terms of all of the films that are out there. I mean you don't have to give a list but i mean has it moved up to a decent ranking or is it just still kind of like it was all right you know i. I'm curious maybe that's a question asked at the end of the show. My talking about various parts of this are going to give away my answer to that questions unprepared to answer. Now this to me is up there with birds of prey. The first three quarters of wonder woman and up three or four of dc. While i'm saying that this is still a flawed movie in some ways not set very high fair. I definitely think that's fair. 'cause you know i still think suzanne wonder woman and probably even birds are This went from being something. That was kind of like a hiccup to something that has legs you know. Even if even if it doesn't do as walls they expect that. I think the next movie that they put out and honestly i do think looking at. Imdb there is a list for justice league too well because it was in pre production at one point but then they decided to go a different direction and the other problem they get is. They've already committed to a different batman now. Ben affleck is still got one movie on his contract. And he's slated to appear as this batman in flash in the flash movie But they've already said they're going this different direction with batman now. I don't know if they're going to do the next batman movie as a year one or year. Two long halloween thing. They could still say okay. Two different actors playing the same character because aflac is obviously much older batman In fact we get some clues as to how much older through the dc. All the dc movies like this is a longtime after the death of robin. There's at least three clues pre Snyder cut and snyder outright confirms the rob instead. I mean they could potentially do with the batman. Well or batman What they did with joker if they're really having that much unless they have the film contains a huge segue to a sequel which technically the joker even has a possibility but you know they could make it a one offer a you know just a a couple couple of movies just on the side. Dc doesn't seem to have a problem with rebooting things over and over know. They wanted to go this way. Ready to start talking about the plot. We've talked making of the movie and impact of the movie and the franchise but not so much about what actually happens. One one real quick question before we get into the plot for the four of us that have finished it. Pat step back for a moment. How long did it take you. I thought it was gonna take me multiple nights last. Friday saremi sat down. I was like okay. Watch the first half. And we'll watch the rest of it later. And i went too far and i got to the point where i couldn't stop comfortably. I wanted to see what happened next. And we ended up watching the whole thing in one night. Hours with maybe pauses to get drinks and go to the bathroom or whatever. Okay john you said you did it in one shot you the as we talked about on on history about ideas podcast I'm i'm the kind of person that if i'm gonna sit down and watch something i'm gonna watch the whole thing in terms of a movie Obviously a series not so much but so i specifically allotted time with the family on a sunday to sit down and and watch beginning to end. So i did the the whole thing in one shot okay. It took me four days for five days but it was the part of the part of the reason for that was a start. You know starting watching it. 'cause i know suzy wanted to watch it so we start watching it. It's like she gets off a work like nine. Thirty ten o'clock she gets home. Watch the first chapter. I'm like all right. It's twelve thirty. This is a stopping point. We gotta go to bed so we broke it up into multiple trump. Which i think for us was actually worked out. Pretty good You can easily do that with the chapter structure. Yeah definitely yeah. And i think the funniest part was when she was like oats chapter four. We could stay. It's probably what another hour we can stay up another hour. I'm like hanging on pause tap down. There's another two and a half hours after six chapters with an epilogue and per log. Yeah so but but plot. Wise the story itself joel. What's your thought on it On the the the story. I mean i i felt like it was. It was a much grander story that lent itself to like you guys were saying earlier to at least one if not two more films. Kind of like the infinity war You know where you had kind of build up of the bad guy and then you don't get the payoff in the you know the come up until the next film and they gave dark side kind of the The build up as being potentially really bad dude that can do a lot of damage and then said okay. You know were. We're kicking out of here for now but looks like he may be back And you know. I thought i thought that was smart in terms of the original intention now. Of course that kind of leaves us with potentially feeling unsatisfied but I mean i enjoyed it as far as the plot knows and how they how he carried it out to get into like specifically what happens. Because i don't think we need to worry too much about spoilers here because we're paying off some of the stuff that was set up in batman versus superman with flash coming back and saying all. This horrible stuff happened. And you see the parity men's and you see he's telling Batman to fear superman because reasons and we've finally got The start of that plot happening and it starts with steppenwolf the servants of dark side showing up for these mother boxes. Sparkley trusted like the mother box. Is this thing that will burn the planet down. So dark side can come and take it over and it's got three pieces In the age of heroes the atlantans the old gods the green lantern at the time. The snyder cut they all show up. Then kick the shit out of dark side and break the boxes into their component parts and give one to each race. That shows up in their Last stan kind of moment the to the amazons the atlanta falcons and the humans and the atlantans put it in a place where everybody can see it. we're gonna guarded the amazons. Put it inside a fortress guarded by amazon's and the human humans are like we're going to bury it here here. We're going to give it to this kid. He'll hang out in his bedroom with it. It's in some kids closet. Have ever seen kids closet. Who can find anything in their weeks to clean it up. He cyborg didn't do a great job once you got it back of hiding it either. You know. I don't think it's i didn't know what the hell it was. So let's let's put it in a in a in a place that has my name on it in a in a in a a shallow grave with about two inches of dirt over the top in a in an open to the public cemetery. It's all good dark side. They they're not even trying. I mean seriously. This is fun. I he before he got. It wasn't even very well buried just like humans like yeah. We should take care of this. And that's fine. Put it in the way. I was with the indiana jones. Shit i know right. We'll just bury it with the other. At cartridges it's all right. I'm looking bored. Let me ask you guys a question. What cyborg character in the comic books. Yes yes all right titans. It felt to me like he was a character that was invented for the movie. No press. you hadn't seen him on teen titans or even like i know you probably haven't watched it but like even like commercials for teen titans or team. Titles now he's he's a big character he's been around for a while and i actually really appreciated. The amount of attention gave his story arc in this. I don't care for him. Oh see i i. I felt like this movie. He he almost was the lead character in a lot of ways. And i felt like he finally got the kind of justice he deserved and i. I was impressed. Because i don't know much about that character. Outside of my kids used to watch teen titans go briefly. And i know a little bit from reading comics but i didn't know the extent of the character and the way that he was portrayed in here i was like holy shit this dude although he looks a little like iron man with some in some of the shots with the things he could kick iron man's ass and probably the rest of the avengers if he wanted to. I mean you've got some fucking amazing abilities. See i'm kind of on the. I don't say i'm on the fence but i'm kinda on that side of the fence on this one while i appreciate his story arc. I appreciate the telling. His story has roots where he came from that sort of thing. I really didn't like his character too much. He he was the least. I mean yeah. I get the i had a shitty. I was blown up type of thing. The superheroes heroes but he's he kind of carries a chip on his shoulder a little too far in this month. Yeah at one twenty s. Like he's like. Oh look at what. My dad turned me into look at this. Like yeah your dad. Turns you into fucking superhero. Who could who could kill. Destroy everything and otherwise you would be dead so don't bitch about what you are. The other option is you would be in the ground next to your mother dummy he realizes that as the film progresses yeah i mean the other side of that is you. Don't have an arc to be somebody who's a complete person if you don't start out broken and there's already too many people in this movie whose character arc we've seen burn over and over again. Which incidentally kind of tagging onto that do any of you feel like this movie benefited from the fact that we now have you know a superman movie To wonder woman movies and aqua man movie that all kind of laid the groundwork that led up to this like it felt like this came out too early. And we've now had time to kind of get to know the characters on their own. And i think that also benefited this The story. I almost wish that this had been a minute. Mini series on. I know i. I think i talked about this on hobie that i think while i know sny think snyder was trying to just be like this. Is my one chance to get this out here dirty. Is you know there's my you know my snyder. God i think if they had done this as if they'd given watchmen series. Yeah i mean yeah if it had been a fifteen episode miniseries or a ten episode miniseries. I think we could have gotten a lot more development off the characters that weren't like i wanna i wanna know about alkmaar about aqua man. I love it. I think he's awesome. You know especially now that he's not like we talked about earlier running around riding on a seahorse type of thing they need to recast cyborg. That's my opinion. I don't like the actor. Maybe that's part of the problem with his character to me. I don't. I didn't like cyborg. He was my my far my least favorite of the characters. Who is your favorite superman. Of course. I must superman fan boy. We all know this. Are you though really i am. I love superman. Give me the biggest baddest strongest. the one who can't get his ass kicked. Why would you pick anybody else. That's my philosophy boy to go out on a limb super. There's a reason you pick him because he's superman. You pick you pick somebody else you buy whatever you pick superman. He he's gonna he's gonna win. He's the yankees he's the. He's the the lakers. Whatever like i'm not gonna say that that is not cheating but why not cheat why not pick the guy who is obviously the fucking best. Because he's boring. The scene when he starts beating all their asses was my favorite scene by far in the movie. It was pretty cool. Yeah that was cool. Why on these fuckers. They're all look at me. Look at me and then a fucking. The flash goes running by suddenly. He's like oh yeah. I could do that too. Motherfucker was awesome. I love that same side is he's running and suddenly he's just like oh shit. One of my favorite moments in the comics is when the flash and superman actually like kinda. Get into it about speed. And they've they had all these races in the comics. But now it's for real. And superman reminds flash of these races like those were for charity. Clark and then he'd fucking dusts him. Yeah but you know if you have a character. That is all powerful like that. I mean a. There's only so many things you can do before it gets boring. Well then and then you fall into the trap of justice league two thousand. How are you gonna make things dangerous. Obviously that they can beat up superman then they gotta be dangerous. But then you're like oh superman so Now what. I was talking about earlier. And that's the whole war problems like all yet star. Trek ratio was talking about how tough warf was but all they ever did was bringing an enemy who could beat his ass to show how tough that enemy is a war. I constantly getting his ass kicked by being so tough. You know you try to set the bar like that like this guy so tough he could beat up. Our toughest person will then. Suddenly you're going to be like how we're going to make. The next guy looked tough while he's got to beat him up again he can't he can't get beaten up by warp because then suddenly he's going to be weaker than alaska. It's worth all the way down. I don't know i. I i agree with you. I have never really been superman fan. I i guess. I get the appeal but i would rather have a character like daredevil. Who's now one hundred percent. I get why you don't like superman. And i'm not just saying this to be a jackass. It's the same reason you don't like the eagles you don't want to like the best popper most popular most awesome one. Because you want the guy that's got you flaws and whatever and blah blah blah onto more interesting if he it's interesting demeaning just to the eagles is again both like perfect whatever you know of of whatever. They're john reid. Has an i like superman but i think the best superman stories are all the ones where he's got a flaw or they tell story what would happen. If superman was raised by someone who was in clark kanter. What would happen if superman had landed in the soviet union red son was an awesome superman store. Yeah yeah that's that's the thing is like you know they. Superman can only go so far. I mean you have to have some sort of tension you have to have some sort of will mean. Will he get beaten. We'll he not get beaten type of thing. Masuba has one hundred get it for storytelling. It's boring but for like if you just want. If you're just going to pick a a superhero for your life could pick pick fucking superman. What the hell's you know. What are you. What are you even discussing anybody else for or you pick your captain marvel or you pick doctor strange you pick like the baddest of the best is you. Don't pick your fucking. I don't know Luke cage i mean. You might pick batman and batman had unlimited time to prepare. I've not madman. Because at the heart of all he's still a human he may be the baddest human there is but he's still a human okay. You watch wrestling though and you know that the person who actually wins is the most popular and batman is the most popular. That is the real if we're talking to storytelling. Yeah you're right you're right. You're right. And i would say that history backs me up on this. In terms of how many confrontations batman walks away from that he has no business walking away from batman versus superman. That would be a big one. Young man's as yeah. I remember hearing like when they were doing batman versus superman. I'm obviously superman. Jesus equity buddy. Superman is obviously going to be superman. So what about the inclusion of derp martian manhunter. I thought it was a little tacked on. Like i liked it by the end. What he was trying to do but almost kind of felt like Like well the game. The all this money might as well put them in here. Yeah i thought the whole like the conversation between not superman's mom and lois lane was a little. Pull the rug out from under you. Because they have this heartfelt conversation and they make you know they get in touch. And i'm also wondering when lowest finally gets out to smallville and caesar she makes a reference about seeing her in the city. Oh effort conversation back at my apartment. I just felt like ads. Come out here and does ma can just go Okay hey crazy. Crazy city girl. You think i was in your in your apartment. Maybe we find out in part to that martian. Manhunter been his mom. All honk and then so much hunter was the friends. We made along the way. And then superman batman and martian manhunter become. Best friends khazei. All the mother's name is martha or they're actually martha more martha martian manhunter was like football. Martha what did you think of the villains. Thought they were bad. As really yeah. Steppenwolf was i mean other than a stupid name. I was waiting for his partner. You know like foreigner or thirty especially fog hat partner. Insisted fog had comes from a i. Just i just think dark side is kind of like close to having the cubes so close so close to having the anti life which i think is a terrible name for something. Come up with a lot of weird names in the state. They did but mother-in-law yougov weird name. Yeah but he was like. Oh well yeah lost a key. S more eddie. I'll come back later. Act up i. I'm not in the mood this now. I can't handle this. i'm kinda bombed. I'm going to go back and watch rest of the office and kind of cool down about this. make me t or something it just. It seemed like he was just kinda like nah and went home to easily. I mean he's the famous thing like it's time he's gotta hang out for the sequel africa sequel and wait for you know. Wait for to show his show his hand. I did like that that when you went to war world you did see Granny what's her face. Granny goodness yeah. Yeah that was a nice little tip of the hat there to the stories but no i mean all in all i the only thing i really disliked about this was the fact that it was one movie. I just think that so much more could have been done with it if it was a mini series or it was broken up into two movies or whatever but all in all. I probably felt like this was like josh that earlier. This was his chance. Yeah i didn't really have had a chance to spread it out. Just gotta i gotta get everything in here rolling. He may not get that that second chance say unless the wb changes her mind you know it may be his one shot at this. So yeah it's all or nothing I how do you guys feel about eisenberg as a luther terrible. I don't. I don't think he's if you were if you were to give me. Have me like describe lex luther. Quirky and kinda goofy is not a way. I would describe him. And that's how jesse eisenberg playing luther. Yeah i still don't quite get that casting Yeah it just feels weird to me to if we're talking about the villains just to jump back on that for a second but jody hill would have been a better casting for lex luther if you wanna go. Just of the odd into in africa was still shaved from Playing kingpin throw him in there. Maybe but wouldn't have worked because of kingpin but And i'm i was hoping that jared leto coming back would change my opinion on him but it didn't And bands line that he says to him that i'll wait for see it on his own. But i think you guys know what i'm talking about Kind of caught me off guard. And i don't know that it was necessary and you're being too vague -dult. Yeah a lot of when batman drops the big the bomb when he's talking to him about harley. Yeah okay in what he's gonna do to him and i'm just like was that necessary was at scripted. It just felt a little. It felt a lot of character for batman to me. But you know days in a kind of a desperate time desperate situation so i don't know yeah i'm curious i. I almost wish pat finished up. Because i really looked to see. What do you think about the last fifty minutes. And i'm sorry. I ran out of time. Guys now turned it around. I'm with you loving. How do you guys feel about leno's joker and he's like i get what they were trying to go for but i'm not sure was good. Yeah i i can't i can't get behind your letters. Joker the i i. i don't get it. I think. I understand why they cast him because he can play quirky weird guys. Hey i don't know the direction he went was really strange especially in suicide squad but anyway yeah so anything else to say about this I mean i. I know would like to see what could have been might be. Yeah but i wanna. I wanna see where snyder and takes us I think that's that's to be the big litmus test now already we've got some other dc movies coming up like suicide squad. The new one which looks ridiculous and amazing. But i'm i'm curious to see you know. Are they gonna take hold of this or run with it or are they. What are they gonna do with it and I really hope they take it and run with it. I don't know what kind of money it's making because of the fact that it. It wasn't a theatrical thing it's been streaming it's cetera. But i hope that they get enough out of it that they at least consider or reconsider. I should say their decision because it could take the groundswell but this says and run with it. Like you're saying. I you know i potentially see it turned things around a bit. It might not right the ship entirely but it might at least get it headed in a better direction. Yeah all right so you wanted to thumbs up thumbs down. Yeah i'm thinking of anything else. Say myself go about for the then thumbs up thumbs down patrick difficult for me. I only watch the three pilot episodes. But i mean it's definitely not a thumbs down so i guess thumbs up okay. I didn't hate it. You know and it was just kind of you know cut there. I didn't like the animation that much didn't care for the storyline. It's not like an thumbs up just like it is what it is. It was a kids show superhero better than a super friends. I kind of in the same line with with pat. I think on the the original idea what they were going for. And i can see the appeal but it didn't. It didn't do anything for me per se. Fine i give it a thumbs up or josh man. I'm a unenthusiastic thumbs. Up for the justice league cartoon and a pretty enthusiastic for the snyder. That's talked about that. Yeah i'm i'm thumbs up for the original justice league just because part of that. I got kids kids. enjoy it. you know it's a it's something. I can keep it on the background. I liked it. It's fun i mean. Honestly the last time. I don't recall the last time i pulled the the seasons off the shelf so it's not like something i watch every month or every or anything but i'll give it a thumbs up and for the snyder i'm going to give it a thumbs up. I enjoyed it. I want us. But i wanna see i wanna see more Because i've forgot the snyder part. I that's definitely a thumbs up by fella. The huge improvement on the original the original version and Yeah i would actually like to see where it goes. And i didn't vote on the snyder cut either. I thought we were just doing the first one. I so yeah thumbs up on. The snyder cut talk. No no apologies. I i may have been wrong so far. You have your thoughts about the justice league. Maybe you think we were too hard. On the cartoons. Many think we're too hard on jazz. Weeden i disagree but let us know. Give us a call at seven hundred and our app that seven eight six six nine nine seven two seven yep and said he could find a apple and google. Podcasts can find us on blueberry on our home at the web. That's forty go. Fourteen dot com. You can find all of our new shows there and Jol sir what are we have coming up Well coming up we've got The road movies show and we talk about films and Again by popular demand or perhaps just by my wishing to make it. So we're going to talk about punky brewster but no glamour. There is a weird love for this. That i don't really understand love it but i used to watch it when i was younger. And i'm fucked. I'm kind of curious to see where they go with it. you know. i'm not like super excited about it. But i bet it's going to be cheesy as the direction that go. I mean look at what happened with full house. Fuller house show. We were surprised at our house was kind of enjoyable fantastic displays other stuff. I'm not watching on tv. But better than i thought it would be. Maybe this'll be the same still not looking forward to it and we'll procrastinate until the last minute i would never do that. You want to go finish up the last forty. Five minutes adjusts sleep pat. Yeah do when we hang up here all right everybody. Thank you for listening and we will be back next week like me. He's all worked up. Until amy adam shows up is just going to say it's kinda like giving you wake up until amy adam shows up. She plays lois lane. Yeah i know. I'm just sorry. I remember the last time adam showed up for you as ever gibson would say only in my dreams i mean maybe israel as it may seem it was only in my dream. Oof maybe she'd show up of shirtless. You'll look more like henry cavill unless like a baked potato. A harry baked potato who.

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Break the Rules #120: Trimester Zero: Overcoming Infertility, Miscarriage + Optimizing Healthy Pregnancy with Dr. Demeri

Break The Rules

36:15 min | 2 months ago

Break the Rules #120: Trimester Zero: Overcoming Infertility, Miscarriage + Optimizing Healthy Pregnancy with Dr. Demeri

"Welcome to break the rules. We dr lauren lacks podcast dedicated. Quieting the noise and the health. Food and fitness world. Doctor warned is leading. Nutritionist therapist and functional medicine practitioner on a mission to help others thrive in their own lives mind body and soul and now your host dr lauren. Hello hello hello. Welcome to another edition and the break. The world's podcasts. Or he's about widing noise in the health. food fitness. were all day bringing you a hard topic but a very needed topic to talk in the women's health oil which is that infertility as well as healthy pregnancy. When you do get pregnant in keeping it that way. We have dr demeri the house who is a licensed nother naturopathic doctor specializing in integrative medicine. For women she finds root-cause for or mental announces disorders stress. Weight has dementia. da You name it She is my sister out there in optional and holistic crime basically and accuracy. Mary if you could give us a little bit of background about who you are. And we're gotcha doing the work. You're doing it while i was premed. I was that tha medical student that drink a lotta coffee stayed up late Out a little bit too much fast food. Because i was studying all day and night trying to get into medicine. I always wanted to be a neurosurgeon as fascinated with the brain. And i love blood and surgery with my thing but during the process of that becoming adopter we always say like where the status people i was on so many meds i was put on birth control pill. I was gaining way to the tenderness. horrible cramps. I had yeast infections. I had headaches and migraines and all these symptoms that i didn't even realize at that time. A big deal. I think when you're in your early twenties you just think you're invincible. And nothing's a big deal in. Every time i go to the doctor get another pill but what was unique about lease. I grew up in iran and my grandmother was herbal essence. Basic that decoction of arab chinese medicine for every single element that we had whenever really were begun drugs medications anytime we had anything. She'd say your liberty support. You should eat more. This warrior is need help. You should eat them. So i had that kind of background but i guess moving to australia being in canada i lost touch with that and i thought medicine was good for you. I actually thought it was like nutritious. So i was like on six or seven different medications Basically to band aid all my symptoms and it just dawned on me one day that like. Why am i having the sentence. Why is it normal. Because that's all i kept saying it's common. Every girl has period cramps. i'll let common. Everyone gets east infections. It's common to have headaches. You know and i think i eventually said no. It shouldn't be like why. Why do i have it. you know. And that y questioning. I guess is why we are who we are and where we ended up which is in functional medicine train as journalists and we asked a lot of white questions right. We're not we're not okay with just a label. And here's the pill for that label. We wanna understand. What is the body telling you. Why is it giving you the sign that something's not right and so then a boyfriend. At that time had some come from europe and doctors there in europe roxie train much more holistic ways even trained in homeopathy during their medical training. They know all about nutrition and they seem to drink wine and have gluten. They do a lot better than the. Us right so is very curious. Installments said you know. Why don't you go see her at a lot of symptoms and i never heard of this kind of medicine before. I didn't know there was an actual name for it. I just thought medicine was conventional traditional medicine. That was it and it was i opening. That's what changed my life. Basically so i after that a lot of my centers went away. I actually ended up after year. Working with her came off all my meds and came off the birth control pill she educated me on how bad that was actually for my gut for my hormones and for my brain and for anxiety depression you name it and then i said i wanna do what you do because you seriously changed my life and i wanna become your kind doctor so i got onto google and started searching for schools in this type of medicine and then when i found it. I thought this is like how i grew up. You know. this isn't anything new. This is out there. But i never heard of it. I couldn't even pronounce naturopathic medicine. And then i went to school. I always say kind of showed me type. And i'm so god in the most rewarding right for our own health is experience. Is the best teacher through till going through a So we'll how like touches a little bit. About what got you into infertility practice and some of the work that you're doing not space and how common that is. Actually i actually never was into infertility. I remember women's health costs like my favorite subject was immunology. I was so fascinated by the immune system like antibodies and antigens vaccines and just blew my mind how our body works. However i got married. You know when you're young you just think everything flows naturally. You're going to get pregnant. you're going to have a baby can breastfeed easily. Nothing can go wrong right when you're especially in your twenties and i had a very early chemical pregnancy and didn't think anything of it. I was like okay. No big deal. I had five royds had hadn't ovarian cyst and the doctor at the time. Scared me in said like this is not good. You need to get removed and i was so stupid at the time. Sorry but i wish. I hadn't and i went into surgery. I came out and they're like well. We couldn't save your ovarian so we basically took the ovary out. And i was just so traumatized because i thought oh my god i wouldn't have babies and so now here i am left with one ovary and i had five boys and they said well you can go in and remove the fibers because that's going to get in the way of pregnancy probably so there's so much fear and i totally had no control. I thought the doctors were the authority. And just like the birth control pill you know it's like everything takes over your own feminine intuitive ability to know yourself and at that time i he'll wait you just that whole oregon and i wanna wait. Think about removing other things from my body you know and but that that time my point is if you any of your listeners know anyone who has symptoms they really are symptoms are not supposed to be. They're not supposed to have sis yes. They're benign but everything starts benign ride. No one gets disease all of a sudden one day like that everything even cancer. We all have cancers else. But it's going to progress to a full blown tumor showing up somewhere or is this an early sign that something is not wrong right hormonally. Maybe you need to detoxify the toxins in the body having a family history or blaming genetics is what everyone did back then right twenty five years ago. That's what i was told. Why probably runs in your family. It's genetics is nothing you can do about it. And that's because they're not trained in what we're trained right there. They don't have the tools to know how to read nutritious article so i then had a daughter and i was pregnant. I got pregnant now so excited. Because i thought it miscarry again didn't in so i was really happy in our member they said. Do you wanna do some genetic testing. And i was like no. I'm gonna have whatever god wants me to have. I will have and she was born at home at a beautiful home. Birth and i looked at her on day warm. And i remember thinking. Something's wrong just intuitively. I disconnected for. Myself is how i put it is. I felt like something. Just isn't right and she ended up. Having blindness in one eye has a very rare disease that couldn't they couldn't name it at the beginning setting. Know what it was. And then she wasn't growing and so for year and a half she had six surgeries in seventh for jury. I remember holding after the seven. This is this is my fault. There was so much guilt. And i really felt like what did i do wrong. Which unsure many moms listening when things don't do go wrong whether it's autism eggs emma whether it's miscarriage we blame ourselves. And we think could have prevented this. And so i coined the term trimester zero literally in the hospital looking and thinking. There are so many kids out there and i knew being in practice. That my pappas. I've seen much more kids with leukemia with autism with. Adhd with horrible at. I was like this is not what it was like twenty years ago. What's happening. Why are kids getting so much sicker. So i always thought the root cause health and then i became into pediatrics. And i just saw kids and i joined the pediatric association thinking if we can change kids early on what. They eat the microbiome early on how their breastfed the antibiotics we can save them in. We can prevent it. And then i realize no. It goes to earth to the nine months in utero. And then that's how. I came up with trimester. Zero is no wait the quality of the eggs and sperm one's talking about it's always about sprung count. How many follicles you have. It's all numbers right. It's not about just numbers though it's about how how the quality is of those and so. That's what i try to do now. I wish my dream is to have trimester pot in medical school. So that if a man is wanting to have a child he actually goes and gets blood work done. Because we do. But they don't and two thousand and nineteen was the all-time time low for fertility ever and this is the year now coming up that our kids are actually going to not live as long as we do so things are not going up there. Trending downwards male fertility. When i was in school wasn't even a subject taught because it didn't even exist right. We never looked at men for anything unless they had vercoe sealer unless couple was trying for two years or a year then they go get things tested whereas now forty to fifty percent of infertility men. So that's almost half or off in many cases but that's not addressed right. What does the female do when we want to get pregnant. We start taking prenatal. We go get a checkup. We get a path we do our. Std's testing we get blood. Work is just female female female right. And that's how i was. I thought this is me you know. I never had the doctor say we'll wait. Could this have been caused by the sperm. Like it was never mentioned. All that was mentioned was. You should have miscarried. Her and the word Good i always tell. My patients should equals guilt. So i know they didn't mean to do that but any time we put that pressure in our self and say i should've you actually do more harm than good. And so i carried this. This pain in this burden of guilt with me for so long and i don't want other couples to have that. I want to be educated. I want them to know that. I did everything i could. I eight right for my tie. I looked at mytalk simmons. I didn't pass on all this mercury to my kid. I didn't pass on all these. Bpa's in ddt's all these things in our environment over eight hundred thousand chemicals in the air in the food and all this gets passed on not only to daughter but if you have a daughter to your grandkids like you're carrying her eggs and her own exa grandchildren as well. So it's such a big space in your time. You just take three months four months to just make some changes to impact generation possibly the next. So that's that's what trimester mazing. Wow what a powerful story you have been dislike a lot of heart behind like why you're doing what you're doing and We're blessed dive into some of those foundational pieces for. I love how you talk about the quality Firm versus quantity that right. We're not talking about on make quality of those things. And maybe if you could just give us what do you find what you see as common missing links for not having healthy earnings and then some of the really basic thing that you start with with a client. Yeah there's a good show called overload. Actually on amazon. I said a few months ago. I thought oh this is amazing. Everyone should watch this because it's a woman try ever third kid and she wants to figure out as she talks sake. What is what's in her body. What does she need to do. And she runs actually a lot of the tests that i run through genova doctors data it. It was fascinating. It's just a regular person not a doctor doing this show but i often say when you go buy a house. You're gonna do a inspection right. You're gonna check if there's mold in the house if the foundation is cracked if there's like major issues just so you know what you're dealing with never just signed a house and say okay. I'm going to buy it. It's the same thing if you're Create another life. Give yourself some time right. Don't like i'm just going to get off the birth control pill get pregnant. Just how the awareness to realize may be. I should actually do more. It's not about getting pregnant. It's about having a healthy baby riot but often when a woman is thirty five thirty experiences pressure to quickly get pregnant and a kind of miss. The opportunity in after seeing thousands of females come to my office after unhealthy child. And so that's my biggest. Passion is my goal isn't just to get you pregnant My goal is to make sure that we have done everything as best as we could to prevent anything happening to that kid. Not at age one to preventing auto immune disease heart disease diabetes things. That usually kill us right. There is research looking at people who are in their fifties and sixties. They have long term studies. Looking at how obese their father was is linked to the kind of disease that might have right so that has to do a sperm quality. So when we talk about quality really talking about epigenetics so you're dna's gonna be set when when those two meet it's done we can't change that but we can't change the quality of how they work right. It's kind of like having a light bulb you can turn things on and off rain. We know this through at breast cancer research where they looked at the bracket gene and they were able to within three months. Turn it off with just diet and lifestyle. Which was i remember when the study came out at the university were all blown away. Because we're like yes. We knew this but up until then we didn't have a lot of research supporting and we really thought. Genetics were huge especially in the heart disease world. So i think it's testing the things that most. Obgyn's won't test or they don't test or it's just not taught in medical school like how do we measure quality and this is where i love functional medicine. Naturopathic medicine is. This is the kind of stuff we do with everyone at antioxidants were looking at pathways. We're looking at genetics. Knowing do you have the mta afar gene in every other liver. Detoxifying gene snips. If you do you absolutely need to look at toxins but if you don't that maybe you don't have to worry about this and we need to see if you have some cree or you have led arsenic. Will you're gonna pass on the other. Big one. is mike konczal function. You know i find. This is a huge topic right now but it really is important for having babies because us females they get all their mighty conjure from us. But it's also really important for the mitochondria the sperm. That's how the sperm makes it up to the eg after that once it goes in it's all females takeover from there but a lot of us have so much dormant viruses like epstein barr virus. Herpes virus cytomegalovirus. All these viruses we test for and where fatigued you know. So that's the number one sign of a country not working. Well as you're just tired you workout in your sewer. You feel like you once in a while you have this flare ups of like flu like symptoms. But they're not worried. Have fibromyalgia diagnosis. But it's really viral viruses flaring the mitochondria and causing that muscle soreness and fatigue. So really. i'm doing a functional medicine intake with all my couples. And if there's someone who is in the world watching this. Who isn't in the program. What i would say is fifty fifty. Please make sure you have a team member. Make sure that if you have a partner. He's on board. the understands. Half of this child is coming from him. And let's stop focusing on just the females and blaming miscarriage if they have one on them or making them feel like they're forty and they don't have eggs leftover right to so much pressure but the same goes for sperm. Used make new batches but every batches quality has to do with the nutritional intake their genetics their inflammation. How many men do i see with. Crp's like over three over five like you're so inflamed they anti-oxidants are so low so all of that damages the sperm. I mean just to give you an example when i look at sperm analysis now twenty years ago. What was considered normal is now considered a sorry what was abnormally back. Then is now the new normal because every year sperm count in numbers or morphology they decrease and they are there have been decreasing so now it's considered that if you have like eighty percent of your burn. Looks defective like two heads to tales. That's considered normal like as long as you just have. A few is what the doctors say and to me. It's no because what are we gonna do twenty years. There's going to be none left right. So it's really looking at in a functional medicine lance sprung council numb like. I don't want you in the normal. I want way over the normal. Like that's how it used to be. I don't want morphology to be bat. That means like it looks defective. So guess what. The body is smart. It's intelligent it will miscarry when it something is wrong right. There's an intelligence to the female body that we have so yes. I should have miscarried. I had a baby with turner's and most of miscarriages are chromosomal so it's not genetic but that means that it's missing a chromosome or it has an extra chromosome i didn't you know and she. This little feisty. Mom wanted to be here you. I'm so glad because my my pain became purpose now without intentionally up. A chromosomes are are really important. For men to. But i didn't know that until i started digging in because i had to had to find out what went wrong because i always wanted to have ten kids and that was after that i was terrified. I was like hell no. I'm not having any more because it really broke me. I felt broken. I felt like something was was. My whole life has changed right. So i realized wow sperm has a lot to do with these guys that are smoking. Marijuana united have so many patients they never take any pills. They even tell me like my husband won't take anything please. Can you recommend powder or something. I can just hide it in a smoothie all make and they're just not taking responsibility and there's no education they go to the doctor and they're twelve. Oh you can smoke. You know you can. Vague like marijuana has nothing to do with your sperm and they asked me dockage american. You send me some articles to show My my husband and unlike those like twenty two hundred on pubmed like which one do you want me to send you know so we really need to change this language. And i am at prenatal for men like i'm in the process of creating one because there are so much research looking at l. carnitine zinc tribulation. Ashworth gonda maka. I mean i can go on and on full eight and these are so deficient in men. But there's research chinamen. Who took this actually had a four fold increase in their count in their morphology in their quality riot. So this isn't something that which is kind of guessing there's actual data out there but unfortunately the urologist who looks at fertility. They're not son that a patient would wanna see right. You only see a urologist when something's wrong when it's been infertility for year right. It's not your pcp who should be trained in this to say. Hey you know. I see you might be having a kid soon. Wish start looking at your diet. Your gut microbiome your quality. Anti-oxidants what are you eating. So for the men out there. Watching for the wives i would say really antioxidants are huge for men sperm and for our eggs to indian gooseberries. One my favorites. Algae is one of my favorites and you can get a lot of protein that way in terms of diet. I usually say you do need some animal protein sale. I'm not a big proponent for vegan. Vegetarian diet for fertility per se because most of my vegans and vegetarians are neutrally more efficient than my meteors. However you could have a very healthy vegan vegetarian and a horrifically not healthy. Paleo percentage alley by faking next salt a show. There is the two differences right lassana. Megan patients like eat chips all day. Unlike you have no nutrients you know in your body and you can't have a baby that's going to be healthy. So diet is all tailored. You have to look at your individual needs. But if you have p. c. o. s. I mean we have data on that if you have acne. If you're overweight if you are very flimsy and you have like post nasal drip know. Cut the bananas out. Cut the dairy out. You need more fiber. You know you might be better. Going plant based for a while so as therapeutic diet is what i use or i might put someone on kito if they're pre diabetic or their. Insulin is through the roof. You know so. I really tailor the program to wear are you. Who are you. this is what you need. So there's no one cookie cutter. Veganism is for everyone vegetarianism everyone. Everyone should eat plants. Like i don't like the term plant based because everyone should be plants right. Vegetarians aren't the only people who eat plants. We all do. We all should and so fruits and vegetables. You need some wild salmon or some of the omegas walnuts chia seed flaxseed hemp seeds. I'll stop there now. Varieties slice of life to in color. Chocolate about themes do you. You mentioned the other testing a gut microbiome perspective wetter anything that you see in individuals that are struggling to get pregnant or miscarrying ask do do basic test so everyone should get a urine test to make sure there's no urea plasma so there are things that can actually get in the way fertility data on that right the need. You might need antibiotics. You might need to kill those because there's risk of miscarriage if carrying that bug and you don't know it often. No one has a symptom is they don't have anything they don't know In terms of microbiome. I used to do so many of these fancy punctual medicine tests. About two years ago i realized clinically. It's not as useful as we used to think they are. You know some of the companies went bankrupt so that's a pretty big sign. It's very trendy is kind of like everyone was on anti candy diet. Twenty years ago on cbo became the next big candida and then ten years from now. They'll be something else. these are all symptoms. But one thing i do is the diversity tests and that is what has been shown clinically to be the most important so when i see i see this ninety nine percent of individuals when will is diversity so low so i'm more interested in the prebiotics or the fancy word for fiber and getting them the food so that the bucks can stay. I'm not big on just giving your probiotics. Because there's not enough data right now. We will probably in twenty years or thirty years to say what does that do me. Is it even staying in their you. Pooping in out. How is it getting fed. We do know it's so complex that every bugs food and gas could be another bugs food as hell or it can destroy the other bucks. It's very complex. Was fine die viruses bacteria so i often say instead of me acting like god. I still know what i'm doing because we don't. I prefer to work on building diversity with getting those rainbows and getting the fermented that has data on the data on probiotics moms at had yogurt moms that had fermented fruits and vegetables and months at actually eight things that you want your kids to eat. So there's even data on carrot juice mom who had versus moms who didn't whether pregnant and their offspring preferred care if they cared so the tastes also developed so i always get the moms and dads healthy before so that during pregnancy she continues that and then you have that kid who will eat fruits and vegetables and eat their broccoli in takes. Because you're not thinking there yet when you don't have a kid you're not worried about the fact that the stress that comes from picky eaters and me having won it it again. That's a whole other stress when your kids don't eat the stuff you put in front of them and they say they don't like it while sometimes. I think i didn't need this through my pregnancy. You know so. Why would we expect her to. That's a good reflection talk a little bit about that. We talked about nutrition. We talk some about gut microbiome in just really building not drew. Our nutrition is a great just easy way to do that. just like stress. You mentioned the stressors of smoking. For example we'd like a stressor to the body. I'm thinking both mental and physical stressors such as that That are making common but not normal. I think when you haven't started trying and you had nothing has gone wrong. The stress usually is in there. When i mean stress. I mean worrying about the future being in control wanting to know. What tests do i run. What supplemental i take in. You know. I'm in these facebook groups and he pulled my patients. Are they bring these group kind of discussions to me. And i will always like that of that group because this is causing so much anxiety right. This person took this this and their fourth. Ivf and this is what they did before and it worked for you know. And it's so much thinking in chinese medicine. We always say what depletes. The nutrients is over thinking and over worrying. So that's the stomach in the spleens energy. That's minute digest. Your nervous system we know is in the gut in conventional medicine. So i always say it's not as important what you eat. Actually the state you're in while you're eating right. Are you in a pair sympathetic. Relaxed mode are all your tres loose. Are the juices flowing out of your mouth. Are you salivating or your stomach. Acid being released as bil- coming out is paris moving. Are you pooping after your meal. Kinda like a baby. Right you feel Only touched do you drink enough water all and basic foundations that a baby has. Do you have all those needs. Met when you do can start doing these fancy tests in supplements and adding in all these things adults do that of them don't have those basic needs. Met right there. Sometimes i couples who want to have a baby to save their relationship sometimes. They feel like they're older. They're husband had a wife previously in children with the previous wife and now they feel there's so much emotional stuff within that you know when you take a good case you start to see these patterns. And then there's the person who's twenty four yang just got married. I don't want to think about miss merit miscarriages. I want them to think about anything. Going wrong. right. You just wanna make sure they're in a good state but we know stress can be your friend and then he commit actually be good for you. So there is research moms in pregnancies who had no stress versus Stress stress group. Actually does better is. That is a life like we are going to have stressful things. Come up behind you. Adapt distress is is. What's important and in disease. We have patients who were studied. Who believe stress is good for them. Their heart vessels actually acted very differently than people who thought stress was bad for them. So i work a lot with the mindfulness and self compassionate. Mindfulness based stress reduction in there so much research on mindfulness and stress. Because it's important what you judge in yourself when something happens right so if some stress will event happens in you judge to be bad and you judgmental towards yourself which is often what happens with moms. They feel like they're not doing enough. They're not good enough some enrolling my ovaries. I don't have enough eggs. there's all these beliefs. Guess what your body reacts to what you tell it it has right so i love jody's fence and sort of the meditation practices that he teaches. Your you will. Your body will react exactly to the thoughts you have. So it's rewiring it's resetting accepting acknowledging. What kind of thoughts on my having you know. Sometimes it's not enough to just have these affirmations in wake up every morning and say i'm beautiful. I love myself i have. I'm so fertile. i think i'm not mocking. I think it is useful. But sometimes there's been traumas that aren't healed from our childhood. There are things that we may have even watched on like lion king and there was a deaf end that has like stuck with us in. There's a woman there you know i. I hear all kinds of stories. Wow what you're forty you are you thinking about that. It's been so many years that it's because it didn't get repaired. It didn't get healed. It didn't get expressed and so fertility very complex in that it Shocker down here with our ovaries in reproductive. It's creative energy right. And sometimes this place gets the reproductive organs get blocked the body says. I'm in survival mode or i feel like i'm in survival mode anyway. There's no lying in front of me. But the brain perceives there is an shuts down the reproductive pathways. It says i don't have time right now to have a baby. There's no way i can you know. Take care of another person. I have so much going on with you know called cortisol adrenaline. Epinephrine a lot of those wired people type a wanting to be perfectionist in control. You know the sort of females. I see so notch and i can totally relate because most people will tell me i'm very similar but i'm working on it you know it's it's the doer and i always say. The doer is the yang energy. The being is the female energy so off to kind of gently move. My patients my females into more of a being state not doing state because all day. They're thinking that's doing. That's depleting minerals right. And i say wears his motivation coming from. What's motivating this behavior and so often just quietening that mines understanding. Where did i lose. Control in my life. But now i'm trying to cling onto this and feel like if i take this if i do the mt hfr test than. I take more metal full late. If i get dr demari on board and i do. This scandal happens so often pas a lot at the beginning. And i really get to know their mind and get them to see the patterns right. And i don't enable them to continue that way because if i'm not doctored that just as sure you wanna get five thousand dollars tests done. That aren't necessary but we'll have microbiome information. That's not going to really be useful for you. Let's say the nine just enabling that to continue so often. I i a little bit differently as i'll have patients who come in with like of tests you know done previously and i'm like i'm not gonna do that. That's that's not how i work you know. I do a lot more mind body medicine and understand where they're coming from. What their needs are met at isn't going to come from a supplementary diet right that comes from a relationship or often from ourselves mic. Drop right there. So i think so often overlooked even within the functional holistic health worlds that we can jump into at striving lots of sun lens medicines than it can be the same thing chasing desert confrontations on tests etc. And that's there's nothing wrong with that. Like i have to say. I used i used to do that. Three years. And i had success it works. It's just. I think as i've evolved as a person or as a spiritual being. I'm a different kind of doctor than i was when i graduated thirteen years ago. And i think when you different work or you go through paints and when i went through so much pain i haven't gone to depressive. Even though i was so depressed right. After having night. I was like i don't wanna know mount because then i still don't feel joy ray. I wanna be happy. I wanna. I wanna have the thing that i don't have an appeal isn't going to bring that to me. So my mindset was just very different or i level you adopt I don't want to adopt even though now looking back. I wish i had. I wish like my mind was different but again. That's me being that not trusting. That where i was at that time was exactly where i needed to be. And so yeah. I think i've i've just evolved Kind of medicine as well too that so someone said as well so mary we can be. We'll find out more about you and the work you're doing as well as your program. Thank you. i'm very active on instagram. And my handle is dr mary. Jesty r. d. e. m. e. r. I and my website is aimed for women. Comm so advance thing. Integrative medicine a. m. for women dot com and the course if you're interested anyone unhappy to offer a coupon code for five hundred dollars off the course for any of your listeners. We can just lose safe. I contacted at checkout zero. Course dot com. Wow that's a super nice gift. And i will definitely be putting that in the show notes as well and thanks for coming on helping us. Break some rules and the fertility me.

dr lauren dr demeri anxiety depression royds headaches pediatric association mytalk simmons autism immune disease heart disease d mike konczal europe epstein barr cancer migraines dementia pappas Ashworth gonda leukemia
How Do I Look?

The Naked Scientists

58:46 min | 2 years ago

How Do I Look?

"Have you loud and clear. That is to say, physics, medicine, nature, brain. Hello this week from skin-care to going onto the knife. We're lifting the lid on the science of looking good plus in the news at DNA packet that can fix genetic diseases and a UK product launches to clean up seven thousand tons of space junk. I'm Katie halo and I'm Christmas amiss is the naked scientists. The leykis scientists podcast is powered by UK fast dot coach, UK. I this week scientists in Cambridge, have developed a system to fix a class of devastating genetic diseases called mighty Konjil enzyme defects. Charlie God a little boy who became a high profile case at great Ormond street hospital and who sadly died last year had one of these conditions. They Akot in structures called my to conjure which the plas als with energy don't function properly. This happens because some of them I to conjure which contain their own small piece of DNA carry genetic changes or mutations that prevent them from working properly Brunell. There might be a way to fix the problem. Pyan Gummidge from the medical research council's laboratory of molecular biology has developed a gene editing system that knocks out selectively, the defective, mighty Qendra. So they're replaced by healthy working ones, severe much diseases likely to result in the patient, not of leaving the hospital series, mobility, problems that likely have combs difficulties requiring round the clock. Most of the time and life can really be very, very difficult. And in slightly less severe cases being we'll chat bounds and struggling to live and independent life. We aimed to develop a system that would enable us to target the mutated, much contra DNA and take that percentage down from, say, ninety percent mutated down to fifty percent mutated, and hopefully someone who did have clinical disease, no longer has any more see you're talking about editing someone's Danes. We're talking about selectively, removing one entire population. Yeah. So how do that we took some genome engineering tools which have been developed in a in a different form for different purposes. Zinc fingers, zinc finger nucleus is to be precise and what these things do to target specific portions of DNA and cut it. If you cut the much Regino it gets degraded. And so if you can selectively cut the versions of much Gino that have a mutation, then usually remove them from. The total pool. And so hopefully you change the percentage of mutated verses healthy. We created these zinc fingers that would be specific to the mutation in this particular mouse that has a relatively mild form of my control disease, and it has a mutation which is very similar to human mutation. We tested it in mouse cells. If we could alter this ratio of mutates mutated, and then we put it into the mouse. So injecting into the bloodstream. The genetic instructions for for these Inc fingers using a harmless virus that's been repurpose for this kind of thing. This virus really, really likes to be taken up by heart cells. Predominantly, we measured the levels of healthy much DNA verses mutant sonogram about seventy percent and going down to about thirty thirty five. So that's well below the level of which people which symptoms. Yes, yes. Well, below the threshold cells generally liked to maintain a total number of my DNA molecules. They say it's a thousand if we. Moved, say, twenty percents of them will thirty percents of them will happen as the remainder will will be replicated. And so you'll basically every time you remove one molecule, your increasing the chance that it will be replaced by healthy one, how fine you I from doing this in humans. The beauty of approach is that it's generalize -able as every time we want to target and you mutation will we have to do is re engineer the parts that bind DNA and then will work that will take us a certain period of time a few months perhaps to design some new ones to human -tations and then to get ourselves into a position to be performing clinical trials in humans could take a little bit longer. We're hoping to have something on the concert in the next year or so. The mutation 's in people from Mike konczal disease different from each other. And if so, do you have to personalize this tool for every single person that you treat? There is a pretty broad selection. Yeah, of of much conjul mutations that the current humans and cause disease, but there are some real. Standout candidates that the pay much more commonly than others. For example, there's one which accounts are about thirty percent of all Michael DNA mutations in humans. So there is definitely going to be required level of reengineering different people in personalized medicine kind of approach. But a good portion of the population should be served by handful of these therapies. You're just doing netted might conjure DNA all them any risk to the neatly DNA. We can't find any evidence of any activity of of what we've developed in in the nuclear genome. We took hearts of the nuclear gene looked very, very similar to the area in the much gene that we were talking, and then we assessed the area around it to see if anything change and in our experiments where we did this, we found absolutely no changes in a world where you don't have an effective treatment. It's a potential civil bullet. Obviously, there's a lot of caveats go with that and a lot of optimisation and and careful testing and safety assurances. Potentially a very, very big change. Step change for people who suffer from these diseases sounds like encouraging work that was pie Gummidge from the mossy mighty Conrail biology unit Cambridge University, and that was published in the journal nature medicine. Now, the school Thames begun here in the UK and all over the country kids going back to or starting school. Now, some children have the extra challenges of learning difficulties to contend with and might have been diagnosed with conditions, including attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD dyslexia or an autism spectrum disorder, but hell, hopeful, all these kinds of grease the kids who are struggling school with the help of machine learning. Cambridge scientists have identified hundreds of children with these dogmas and they've identified clusters of learning difficulties that don't really map onto the dog knows they've been given cognitive neuroscientists Duncan Astle led the study. So Duncan, first of all, what was your motivation for doing this? Why did you decide to go down this path. Well, many children struggle with learning. So there's disorders like ADHD which have mentioned prevalence rates for those kinds of things vary from say, three, eight percent, but actually the proportion of children who struggle to lend much higher than that. I mean, government statistics around thirty percent of kids don't meet their age expected levels by the end of primary school and way really interested in what the underlying causes or the underlying roots to being struggling Lana, and the way that you would normally study that would be to choose a group of kissing interested in, say kids with ADHD and you would compare them to all the kids who don't. But we began to think that there was some real problems with relying solely on that approach. And the first one is that it assumes that all the children who have the same diagnostic label are all the same as each other. We genuinely comparing apples apples. Yeah. So who did you recruit them? Well, we set up a center which we call the center for attention learning and memory. And to that center professionals in education and in clinical services could refer children to is that they thought was struggling. They didn't have to have a diagnosis, but they could or they could have multiple diagnoses. They just had to be struggling in the areas of attention learning or memory. So intentionally generic. And how did you study them? So each family would visitors and the team of research assistance. Impeached students would spend several hours doing different kinds of cognitive assessment with the children. We would have behavioral meetings for the parents to fill out, and most of the children would go through the scanner. So you've got what the performance is like what the performance is like as in their track record, what the performance like in your tests and a brain scan to go with what you there, marry all that information, or at least you're asking a computer to marry all the information together and look for for common ground or differences between them. Essentially? Yes. So we took many of the cognitive assessments and we fed them into a machine learning algorithms. Machine leading sounds kind of fancy, but actually we use it all the time in everyday life. So every time you type something into a search engine behind the scenes, there's an algorithm which learning about that information that you're feeding it, and you might notice things appear in your advocates that correspond to what you search for. So machine learning algorithm was learning about the cognitive data that we fed in from these kids. What it learned was different profiles of children, children with different profiles of cognitive difficulty. What does that mean? Imprint terms we need different profiles. Are you saying say I had a diagnosis of ADHD. I've got that label, but actually my ADHD may be quite different from the label of ADHD. You might perceive for example? Yeah, exactly. Because one thing we then do is check about what the machine learning has learnt and see whether it's really learned the categories. The the diagnoses the kids came with and the data showed very clearly. That's not what the machine learning. Was learning children who had ADHD could have very different profiles from each other. They can have very different cognitive strengths and difficulties, and that's a real challenge in trying to think about how we support there's kids. Does this mean then cats grows, Asians, just wrong with putting people into narrow bins of problems. And in fact, it's much more subtle than that, and we need much sort of narrow but wider categorization. I think it means that the diagnoses nothing about them in the right way. So the not kind of medical diagnoses that much less discreet and clean than that. We don't really understand what the underlying causes are. And so we still think that dog names is a real landmark moment for children and families when they get professional recognition for the challenges they've been facing. The question is how to practitioners then best support those kids and how do we acquit face practitioners to do that? And the answer is simply knowing the diagnostic label itself isn't enough information to go on. Indeed, the end of the day we're dealing with an individual. Here who's got a problem that they won't help solving, isn't it? So does your tool give us a better insight into, okay. We can identify where this person's weaknesses, all. So we can go to the classroom and say, if you all meant the training in this direction or give this person extra aids, perhaps more stimulation more practice in this era. This will help to develop this area that they actually deficient in where we believe so severing sample in the data. A large portion of the children have problems in Showtime or working memory. Those children could have a dog necessarily HD they could have diagnosis of AST or they could have no diagnosed as spectrum disorders inspecting, or they could have no diagnosis at all. But we know that if you try and reduce working memory demands in the classroom, then kids with pull working memory will do better. So we already know there are some indications out the door effective with these kinds of cognitive difficulties. It's just that they seem to cut across traditional diagnostic boundaries that we have. Hitherto believed in a lot of people are not going to have the records. To a machine learning algorithm and MRI scanner and your brain Dunkin with respect in order to do this other. I mean, is this deployable grand scale within schools that especially school special educational needs coordinators and they'll be one of those in every primary school and they receive additional training and how to support. And it would be useful for them to be trained and understanding what are the different areas of cognition that children can struggle in and how we assess those. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Can thank you very much. This don't Knesset, and his papers just been published in the journal developmental science. So what we were trying to do with this paper is to demonstrate the ability to type using brain signals anywhere between proxima foreign approximately eight words per minute, factor of between two and four faster than what's been demonstrated before each month. The alive podcast talks to some of the world's best scientists join me Chris Smith, as I hear about breathtaking discoveries hot off the press, find the podcast on I tunes or listening download for free from naked scientists dot com slash alive. Still to come. The tech that will tell you when you've had enough sun exposure for one day and can breast implants cause cancer. The, I imagine saving up the years by new call boots to get it home you. I have to drive it through a pile of old metal, meaning you end up taking the signs of the process. It sounds far fetched, but it's affecting what's happening to the new subtleties sending up into space because the plenty is surrounded by a sea of orbiting junk left behind from our previous for as a loft. And this rubbish is threatening to jeopardize technology worth millions. Now, scientists across Europe, taking this particular Bill by the horns with imaginatively named project cord removed. Obree is Clark spoke with Surrey space centre director and leader of the project Graham? Oh, Aglietti. Currently there are more than seven thousand dollars of stuff up their space and mostly are. Old sought delights or the final stage of rockets, things that have been put in orbit maybe decades ago, and they are still they're spinning around. Some of them have broken into beats. It is a problem because this stuff in orbit travels really fast. And so even as more fragment hitting a new satellite could destroy this new satellite. Imagine spending all that time researching a brand new after light to launch into orbit on then have it destroyed by a piece of space, junk jail, and his team is planning to change over what we have done with our partners is to put together a consortium to demonstrate technologies that can be used to remove some of this debris. And the project has been sponsored by the European Commission. They kind of technologies that we are going to demonstrate are relatively simple technologies if you want. One is a net. So the idea is to capture your piece of debris with an and this net that envelop the object, and then you can drag it down in other technology that we are going to the most rate in a few months is her Poon. So also here is a similar thing. So with our Poon you try to capture your object and then you will pull it down until it burns into the atmosphere. Okay. So you've just done this. I so talk me through it. How did it work? Okay. Everything went very well. So from the main satellite, which is the size of an older television set, we have released. Our artifice shall target is maybe the size of Brad to give people in idea. Then this has inflated stature to be much bigger. So it is more presentative very l. piece of the then from the main satellite. We have launched the net that has captured our little debris with his inflatable stature, and as completely enveloped our debris. And so now is going to orbit with it and burned into the atmosphere. How resolve this controlled? How would your device? No, where to capture this piece of debris? Well, in our case, we have released our own piece of artificial debris. So we knew where it was and therefore relatively easy to to recapture it in. AL scenario. The first thing that the satellite will have to do is to get closer to the potential target. So you would have to have a more sophisticated control of the satellite in order to get closer to your target. Therefore you can capture it. Another test that the removed Deborah team have settled is used at camera to monitor the speed and shape of debris in order to track how a potential target moves. After that it's over to trying a heart pain rather than a net to capture this junk. But how does it all then get destroyed? The idea is that we are going to lower the orbit, so this junk can burn into the upper atmosphere. And normally our satellites are designed in a way that they can burn completely in the higher atmosphere. However, you would try to do these maneuvers maybe over the ocean. So even in the unlucky case that little. Part of your satellite maybe doesn't burn completely the potential fragment then drops into the ocean rather than in an area where maybe there is a higher density of attitudes rather than trying to scoop up every bit of space junk. This Deborah harvesting device will aim to collect the biggest pieces of junk in space to save them from breaking up into small fragments and adding to the overall pile of debris in orbit. Once it has been scooped up by the net or harping the removed, every satellites will use a giant sail to sit award our atmosphere until the satellite and the junk into is all burnt up. So what's next for the team now that we have shown that the technologies viable, we hope to be able to convince all the stakeholder to actually finance such a mission. What we magin is just to do a few missions every year where people would. Agree beforehand, what is the particular piece of debris that we are targeting? So you can go up capture the piece of the and then the orbit it. This is what the kind of scenario that we have in mind. Well, it sounds to me like they have got a monumentally big job on the hands that was grim Aglietti from the sorry space center, and you can watch a video of project removed every inaction on that website. If he'll inclined now basking in the warm sun is a luxury that many of his love, and it's also good view up to a point because the ultra violet rays in sunlight, produce the bone boosting hormone vitamin d in your skin, but too much UV causes sunburn skin aging and wrinkles, and it's a major risk factor for skin cancer rates of which have more than doubled in recent decades. Now, scientists, Australia have come to the rescue with a wearable sensor that you can pop on your wrist. It goes blue. When your pass the safe daily sun limit for your skin type inventor, VIP will soul told Thompson bell how it works, you invisible and you is not hot. So you can't feel you we and the heat that we feel in the sun is because of infrared rays is not because of you. We, we are trying to make you be census in the form of where. Will sensors which cutter when you'd go in the sun, this Inc and interact with UV light and then become too. So once cents a becomes blue, we know that we have to go inside, yes, and the sink and give a warning signal now it's time for you to go back in and how does this, what what chemicals are involved? So the two main chemicals in this Inc we call it an invisible ink because initially colorless, there's a chemical polio who might late this big molecule. Lot of fos for oxygen. Second component in the ink is lactic acid a common chemical, which is present in yogurt. So when we mix these two components together and we shine in this Inc with you, we light then lactic acid. Molecules can give electrons to the other molecule when this happens. All the metal becomes blue in color, and that's what we see. What about different skin types, so Ye veto Lawrence? How does this take into account? We have six different type of skin could be very fair skin to away. Dogs can now the required. Moments on the tolerance of these conducts a very different. Very fair skin cannot two huge amount of UV. If you look at a dark skin, it can all these large amount of u. e. which means that we need to have personae sensors for different skin colors. So a sense of that would be a very fierce can. It should have local, very, very fast. On the other hand, the colors should of love slowly in case for Dr skins person can stay in the before long time. I'm a bit of a sun worshiper is this sense. Gonna tell me that I have to stop sitting in the sun really quickly of us love son, and we cannot really avoid exposure to be commended to use sunscreen with a high SPF number today. Use them out of UV that is reaching your skin. When you're applying the sunscreen on your skin, you can also play on the sensor to reduce the amount of few deadly sensor and sensor will slowly I suppose the same would apply if someone sat in the shade, yes, destroyed. Of equality cumulative those. So when they are in the Sundan only the sense I will work and depending on the intensity of the sun, the sense of Billy the work faster or slower, and then it won't go back once you go back into the shade soon that way, the alas will one day we see a huge prospect of the senses because the sensor can allow people to be exposed to the maximum those possible without causing the harm. Are you planning to make these sell them in shops and how much would it cost? We have a very ambitious target to bring to the market by early twenty twenty. The cost would be somewhere on one dollar. Wow, they say you can't price on your house that was VIP Obama bundle, and he's based at the Royal Melbourne institute of technology, and you can read his paper on that sensor in the journal nature communications. Now, ten years ago this month and who could believe it was ten years ago, the large Hadron collider switched on for the first time and it began his quest to revolutionize our understanding evaluation verse. But how successful. Has it been outta Murphy. Under the ground near the Swiss French border lies the large Hadron collider or l. hey, ch c. twenty seven kilometers long ring. One of the largest engineering projects ever undertaken it was built to help us unlock some of the fundamental secrets of the universe. But how does it do that? Tara shares a professor of particle physics at the university of Liverpool. Somebody's described it as working out how a Swiss watch works by bashing to rid expensive ones together in trying to reconstruct what's in that will the bits, the full app takes two beams of protons, which a hydrogen nuclei in its kill eight opposite directions around this ring and at exceleron them until they got loads of energy and until that traveling just a few me to second less than the speed of light. And then those beams a stitch to smash together at full points around this ring where we build our experiments and goes on when those beams crush together, which is the key to our whole investigation because. When those proton beams smash together, what's actually going on his tiny tiny instance of time, tiny area of space, we have so much energy that we can dissemble matter to its fundamental constituents and we can make new fundamental constituents from that energy and our experiments actors, gigantic, three d. cameras and take snapshots of the traces these particles leave behind when they zip out from the collision points and deposit their energy through all detective material. Probably the most famous result of the l. c. is the discovery of the Higgs bows on for which Francois angler. And Peter Higgs were awarded the Nobel prize in twenty thirteen. So they expose on his an absolutely integral part of the universe. Well, actually the integral part of the universe is something the Higgs field. It's a type of energy field which is present throughout the universe. And the reason that this is such a big deal for us is that we think it's this field and the interaction. That fundamental particles have with this field as they move around the universe that gives fundamental particles them mass. She might not sound like a particularly big thing, but it's absolutely necessary for us to be able to make sense of the way particles behave of the way the forces that govern particle behavior, that particular strengths and this field on this particle the Higgs bows on this associated with the field is an absolute integral part of our theoretical understanding of what's going on the l. h. c. was designed so that if the Higgs bows on existed and Michelle be able to see it. And indeed back in two thousand twelve, we did see the first observation of this political and then ever since we've been gathering more data, what has the discovery of the Higgs meant for science that has governor of The Hague's bows on differences at it filled in the missing parts. In our current understanding of matters, having a jigsaw and getting those laws pieces and sticking it. In all the pieces look together and you've got a coherent picture that you know, you can see it in front of you. It works, it's brilliant. You can't overstate what an important step for without was. And the alleged these work is far from finished as well as being constructed to try and find the Hicks bows on the LA cheese earlier discovery machine. Although we've been going ten years, we've only taken about five percent of our takes us that the NHA's a real long-term machine with thinking that it will carry on into twenty thirty five, maybe even a little bit longer. So there's an awful lot more data to come. So if he think what we've already done with the five percent of data that we've got with the discovery of the Higgs and all these other investigations that have told us more about the limitations of fairy and the limitations of alternative hypotheses. I can't tell you what's gonna come out the next ninety, five percent. And this is the thrilling thing about doing research. The data that we're collecting tells us something new and I'd be foolish to try and guess what's out. The, what was it like to be a particle physicist dot? First day ten years ago, it was just amazing to see the evidence for this. I beam go round. It was quite war inspiring. Actually, when you think of all the engineering design, all the work that a gone into this machine and yet it worked when they switched it on, I still, I still find that incredible. It's a massive endeavor. There aren't many massive endeavors on this scale for us is almost akin to the moon landings and the space race in terms of going out the and finding there is it's another one of these endeavors of mankind that make you think mankind. Heart is brilliant. It can do this sort of thing. Tara shares from the university of Liverpool. They're speaking with Adam affair about the giant leaps that the l. h. c. has helped us to make in the ten years that is now being uprising. In the meantime, if you'd like to catch up with any of the stories we covered this week, the transcripts and the references to published papers behind them, our all our website, you can find that a naked scientists dot com. The naked scientists podcast is produced an association with Spitfire cost-effective voice, internet and engineering services for UK businesses. Find out how Spitfire can impel your company at Spitfire dot coach k.. Now, bit of a personal question here. Katie do forgive me. Now, when did you lost look in the mirror. I think probably just before the star of the show, I'll try not to take that too personally, perfect face for radio and all that joining Maury, the reason fresh Ascii, Matt, and you haven't got the remains of your lunch down your front. The reason is because most of a set enormous store of course, by physical appearance by the ourselves and other people, the job, you do, the person who end up marrying the perception, others form of you. It's all down to how we present ourselves. And consequently, the fashion and cosmetics industry is estimated to be worth over half a trillion dollars every single year. So in this half an hour, we're going to reflect on the science skin-care, the chemistry of cosmetics and also Saif surgery. The first find out why the way we look is so important to as I went to Anglia Ruskin university to see social psychologist on body image expert there in Swami their number of different theoretical explanations, the kind of the most dominant problem evolution psychological one that we try and let good because you want to attract mates. And the way we demonstrate our health and fitness is primarily through. Attractiveness, the idea is that attractiveness is highly linked with health and fertility, and that people who look attractive are more for Tom healthier. So we try and demonstrate our effectiveness or propensity to mate with with the good looking people by demonstrating own attractiveness. There is also a cultural explosion which is simply that we are generally biased perceive attractive people as having personal qualities being more sociable, being happier, being better at work and all kinds of the personal qualities. And if you have that bias, if you incorporate internalized that by then you want to look good because you think you will crew the rewards of looking good. There is also near a scientific explanation, which is that our brains process attractive people as more rewarding. There's a part the brain called nucleus accumbens, which shows heightened activity. Anytime we see attractive people and the suggestion from neurosciences our brains like it when we see attractive people. So we try and demonstrate our unattractiveness. Now I've made a bit of an assumption that everyone pays attention to how they look. Is that true? There is evidence suggests that most people pay attention to how they look, but also that they can form to different standards of grooming. So most people have an idea of what's expected of them societally in terms of what they should look like, whether it's occupational settings or romantic settings or in daily life. They also have an expectation of what they should look like in terms of they grooming. They're all individual differences. So for example, there are studies suggesting that people who are higher than what we call appearance, investment tend to spend more time focus on their parents and also tend to believe that their own appearance has an huge impact on life outcomes, whether they get a job or whether they're likely to find a dating partner on people who are low investment appearance tend to thing that parents isn't really particularly important and that consequently spend very little time on their own appearance. There are also other kind of factors that might relate to how important you think appearances and also your use of because medics. For example, there is some evidence to suggest that people who offer example, hiring what we call oppressive belief. So people who are more sexist, a more hostile. Towards women are more like his believed that women in general, but also their partners should use his medics. So in my Hamburg, which is sitting in the corner of your office, I've got some escora nation, some lipstick, I'm probably not alone. Why do so many of us painting on our faces? I think there are a number of reasons if you look at it from a cultural point of view, particularly women, there is pressure to conform to stereotypes of what feminine is at the individual level. The reasons might be very different to why someone might choose to use metrics compared to the political all these social levels. There's a good deal data to suggest that when women wear make up, they feel better about themselves when when make medics, they feel more confidently feel more self competent and they also expressing themselves experiencing best rewards as a result and have the same studies been done on men or people of other genders? No. So we, we know very little about menus and. Essex particular who's makeup. There is evidence to suggest the use of makeup among men is increasing, but we don't know necessarily about the outcomes. One of the difficulties with men in cosmetics is that historically, at least the use of makeup in men was considered transgressive in terms of their masculinity. More recently, there is evidence to suggest the use of makeup has been incorporated into some forms of masculinity. What about other people's opinions of us then come for instance, wearing makeup change the way someone else might behave towards me again, is difficult whether they're responding to you because of the makeup because they've Seaview is being more attractive. I think there are two separate things. One is the kind of general response from other people. It's quite possible that the responding for women particularly to you use a makeup because they perceive you as being more feminine as opposed to when you don't use makeup in your perceived as being less firm. So lots of interactions between the perceptions of people based on whether or not they using makeup. They're also study suggesting women wear makeup perceived as Lee more competent. Tickly for high power jobs because again, it's consistent with the perception of what's required for those jobs. So it's really difficult to know whether the response at the level of the general population is to you because you're wearing makeup or because you conforming to societal norms of what what you shouldn't shouldn't do. So if I go to a job interview and I put on some makeup, is that really going to increase my chances of getting the jump, it turns is possible and it certainly likely that you increased likelihood review cabinet, successful outcome from that job into. But I suspect this is partly function of the people who are interviewing historically at least job interviews, centipede dominated by men and they have expectancies about what they would like. Don't like them into the assumption. Here would be that women who wear makeup are kind of conforming gender role. Men feel more comfortable when women conformed to that general women on into panels might be doing the same thing. So they might be assuming that when other women coming for job are conforming, they feel better and safer around those. Women and as evidenced to backup nausea, yes. The other really interesting thing is how apartment respond to you and this particular of men's responses to their female partners in heterosexual relationships. There is some evidence to suggest that heterosexuals are in committed relationships. Men. We don't like their partners to wear makeup in. This might be because they perceive it as a means of tracking other partners into. So they experienced greater feelings of jealousy on the nice things about social psychology is that we also know that the importance of first impression drops very quickly, so you can kinda importance of physical appearance matters most in the absence of any kind of social interaction. So when you when you see someone for the very first time, you make a judgment about that person based on their physical appearance alone, and that makes sense because you know information about individual wants social interaction begins. This is also true of of interviews and job interviews on, but also romantic relationships. For example, once you begin to have social interactions, you begin to piece together a much fuller picture of the individual gleaning much. More satisfying in Richard data, and you begin to use things like reciprocal information, whether you're exchanging information with the other person, whether you're changing intimacy, whether you're exchanging useful information with your other person in job outcome, things similarity also then begin to master as well. So kind of key point, although appearance really is important, particularly in kind of occupational settings. The importance is is often overestimated site. Perhaps we don't need to worry too much about any bad first impressions that was Swami from Anglia Ruskin university thought provoking. Now more extreme than wearing makeup is resulting to surgery too old. Your parents and one current very popular body modification is breast augmentation for the uninitiated, this involves inserting a bread Rochet implants filled with either a silicone gel or saline solution underneath the breast tissue. And this makes the breast larger people say it gives them more confidence and also more satisfaction with their body. But the procedure has since been linked with an increased risk of developing a cancer of blood cells, which is called anaplastic large cell infomer- or a l. c. l. camps, universities, Suzanne Turner has been studying it. First of all, Suzanne can we put some numbers on this how many wrestler juries to do breast augmentation and place implants aren't being conducted worldwide every year, not six, ten million per year, huge numbers numbers, yeah. Okay. And this condition, how did it I come to light? So the first case reported back in nineteen ninety seven now. And this was a case. It was in the literature, but not much tension was paid to it to begin with, tell us about the disease when someone has a elsia, what have they got? How would they know the handed? So it's Germany, sudden swelling, Noman just one breast which can come on from anything from one year to over ten years past surgery, that swelling tends to stay around. It can also come as a lump, either in the capsule forms around the breast implant. So this is an area fibrous tissue that forms in response to the breast implant, and lumps and bumps around that. Eric also be a sign of AOL, CEO soup, painful or painless. Both women have reported all sorts of ranging symptoms associated with this. Interesting. So the disease actually happens locally to the implants happening, but what one side, both sides, generally one side. So what do we think the mechanism is then encourages this particular tumor to, so there are a number of theories out there. So the first one is that it's infection driving this. So. During the surgery, perhaps some infection gets involved on this lingering infection leads to the white blood cells, proliferation of control and becoming this lymphoproliferative this cancer. Another theory is is suggesting that some women may be allergic to these breast implants in this allergic response which goes on for a long period of time. Again, Dr z. cells into preparation. An alternative theory is that for some women, there may be an autoimmune condition, predisposes them. So it may be the case that they already have an auto immunity in the presence of the implants upsets the balance of white blood cells within their body. And of course, the ferry we can't really discount as the breast implants themselves and are there toxins related to those breast implants, for example, which may also be driving this form of disease. And of course, we know for many cancers that could, in some cases be driving toxic stimuli, breast implants, all made of. A whole array of different chemicals that we don't really know too much about how these remanufactured is a closely guarded secret by the companies that make them. And so I think off four fair is aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I think that there may be Malta chewed of mechanisms towards this particular cancer and that for some women, they may be at higher risk than others due to predisposing conditions. What we do know is it's mostly associated with women who have a form of implant that has a textured surface. So this is a very specific type of implant. And that's been introduced as a way to deal with something could capture the contractual. And this is where the fibers capsule that forms around the breast implant and pull the skin informing sort of dimple effect. So these textured implants of certainly been more commonly associated with this form of cancer thing is though we put lots of other implants into the body. People have hip replacements are the joint replacements and other things put into places to. They carry the same. Risk because many of the mechanisms you've outlined do not strike me as being unique to what we do with breast implants, Asian, breast augmentation surgery. Absolutely. You're right there. So you would expect it if it's bacterial driven and it's due to the surgical procedure in itself that you would see these lymphomas occurring and people with all sorts of other implants. And actually you don't. There are some rare councils that have been associated with metallic implants. But for the most part, we only see breast implant associate ALCOA. AOL Seattle with breast implants. So I think that gives us some clues as the wolf's really driving this. What's your overall risk then? Because they may will be people listening to this. If they're one of that very large cohort millions of cases year, having breast augmentation, what's your risk of having this condition? So this rare, but the risk of in the UK is currently place at one in twenty eight thousand women with breast implants, and that's database on the number of implants that are sold. Although, of course, we don't know how many of those implants actually make it into women. Although if you read through the literature, the rates of this disease developing range from one in three thousand women with textured implant to one in thirty thousand women. So there's a whole range of different rates depending on where you live and I'm which literature you read. So if you're in one of those unlucky groups, who is dog nosed with this Suzanne, what can you do about it? So the treatment is fairly straightforward for the ladies that a diagnosed very early on in the disease. So the treatment is literally removal of the breast empl. Plant and the capsule that surrounds the implant, and for the majority of these women that's enough to put the disease into remission. However, having said that oversee is a surgical procedure and is not something that anybody would enter into lightly. And at the same time, there are the implications of whether or not to have a replacement implants and whether or not that is safe. And unfortunately, we still don't really know. Some women are having a smooth implants put in place of the texted implants, but I don't think that the evidence is fully out there yet that the smooth implants or any safer necessarily. I'm fortunate for some women. These concerts do develop an idea progress into something more and for some rare women. This can be the first sign at the cancer. So I'm aware of ladies who have had masses growing into their rip cages with very aggressive disease that needs chemotherapy. So it can be very aggressive, nasty disease, and the half being about sixteen deaths reported worldwide. So it's not something that should be looked upon too lightly. Do you think on the balance of it that actually the ends justify the means to think we should still be allowing people to have breast implants, given that they are taking a risk, it's not just a one in a million chance. These numbers are quite high. The risk that you've been saying this happening is very much a personal choice, and I think the heart of it all is that women should be able to make an informed decision and up until a few years ago, that was not the case. Women were not being told that this was a risk. So now we do know that it is the risk. It's very important that plastic surgeons convey this risk to relate is before they make the decision as to whether or not to have implants, Susan, thank you very much that Suzanne turn from the university of Cambridge. Still to come to anti wrinkle, creams really work. First. Let's just slap on a bit of lipid we had earlier y, many people wear makeup, but what's actually in these creams and powders. John Emsley as a chemist and author of the book chemistry at home, exploring the ingredients in everyday products. Now, John, I've got my little makeup bag hair in front of me. Can you tell us about a few of these products? I have just put on some rather nice, deep, purple lipstick, what is it? Well, what you're putting on is something a lack of wax or mixed together with a color or a die with narrow the composer about twenty components in some lipsticks. But basically you're doing ancient Egyptians, did which ancient Romans did you want to highlight your lips in those first things they were using dangerous materials using things like cinnabar, which is deep Redwood. Of course, that's a mockery compound. Today we use safe dies, and you know there's no risk of being affected by anything that you put on your lips. I'm very glad to hear it because I'm just put some on now. I just taking a sip of my Cup of tea. I've got here in the studio and unfortunately, I now have purple on the Cup is this supposed to happen? Modern lipsticks invented about one hundred years ago in America, and there were lots of fought to begin with the greasy in cold weather. They snapped broke off in hot weather. They melted the tended to pick up germs. So the very quickly became infected well, of course today, all those problems have been solved. You got a better range of colors. You can make glossy, you committing sparkle. And of course today we'd like to think of the colors that you're using impermeable. In other words, they won't pass from your lips to whatever you touch. I'm afraid to save. Go around, look for something slightly better. So Secondly, Muskoka it's a common thing finding. The makeup bag. This is my eyelashes. What is it will again, miscarriage been around since ancient times and the very first miscarriage using something called coal. Now, cold again, it's their minerals. There was an anti mineral, and there was a lead mineral that people using those days. But you're going back now to ancient Egyptian tombs. Again today, of course, they're much safer what you've got in Moscow a wax base and some of them actually use beeswax or canoe box and things that the tend to mix that with an also it's much more flexible than just the simple wax. Yours want something that keeps it permanently soft like glycerine clitoral. You also want other components. They went dot component today tend to use carbon black or that are very black iron oxides. You don't want to cause that infection in your miscarriage because you don't hear us to become infected. And of course you need some protection against germs and things like that. So it's a very, very complex makes, but. Today, I think about a safe as possible to be. Another thing I found in my makeup bag is a foundation liquids. What is foundation. Will the foundation is to protect the skin of the face and to mask blemishes. And so lots of things could be included in Panish. Generally they're different forms of iron oxides so you can get the skin tone that you're looking for. Very often. You want to put a silicone layer on your skin because that protects tip prevents water being absorbed from the skin. So the skin remains slightly plumper and of course it protects the skin against outside influences. So it's a protective and it's a disguise that's basically what foundation John now in twenty and not be foundation, but I'm guessing people have done this throughout history. So when did as far as we know when did people I start wearing foundation. And how has it changed over time? And again, we contrast that back to agent times mainly upper class women who used it, they didn't want their skin to appear rugged the if you were an ordinary person, you worked out. Lot. Then of course you be exposed to UV. Your skin will begin to look aged. He didn't want to show you such a person. So you wanted to lie to skin and very often what they were applied to. This skin was very light pigments. Sometimes they even used us Nic trioxide, which was known as wide task in those days. And I believe Queen Elizabeth, I was very partial to having her skin looking very white as proof that she was the upper class woman of the time. Ask Nick on the surface of skin is not a threat. I mean does of course if he gets into your body, but even on the tiny amounts that you might have absorbed wouldn't do anything dangerous. And then of course, sometimes of course, if you took a little to you, but then you get a red blush forming on your cheeks. And again, that was something that women took ask Nick 401. time. Okay. Well, I'm certainly not gonna be doing now a slightly different one John, but what about deodorant? Anti Brin cosmetic of sorts. Everything about it. To make a smell nice. What are these sprays or Rowlands? It can prevent the bacteria that producing these odors. If you block the pause of your skin in the armpit, which of course we're lots the sweaters produced, and so you spray on something that will block them once it was only minium salt that fell out of favor. Now it can often be as co neom. So you block those pause, you won't produce sweat, and so you can go for the evening not smelling lacquered mail if you know what I mean. Okay, locking these pause. Is it a good idea? Is it safe? I mean, it wouldn't be safe if you try to do all of your body. I mean, there are people who've painted their body and died very quickly because you blocked every poll, but it's just these very profuse sweating lands under your arms that then produce these bacteria. And then of course they give very often sofa base smells which acquired strong and that offer sweaty odor. If you're going out for the evening, you're going to mix with people. You don't want people coming up to 'em backing raising what a pong you want to give a lovely, come hither, smell, don't you costs for women? It's just as important to do this as well near the thing about the odor, of course, as you can try and kill the bacteria that causing it. But again, some of the trick to sound similar, very powerful antibacterial agents are now frowned upon. And so perhaps best just to keep shower everyday and remains fresh is you can thanks much John. We're gonna have to leave it that John Emsley well, let's the chemistry of. What we're slapping on our skin. But what about the skin itself? All these various potions, nations, that deck out ball from shells actually any good and they do us any good dermatologist joints earnings from Admiral hospital. And she can hopefully also these questions for us. But first of all, John, in order to understand the effect on skin after on Sam skin is so what is can well skin of course, is the covering tool up these with a slightly modified version over the front of the eye on the mouth, the two important layers of the skin. There's the epidermis, a wonderful self-renewing very thin surface that's continually being made from below and continue to loss from the surface. And below that is the Derm is that's the stretchy, but to the padding layer just beneath. And then of course we get down to fat and muscle. So our skin is a self renewing surface. It protects from the outside and it keeps the inside inside. One statistic I read was we lose something like forty or fifty thousand skin cells. Every second that sound about right. We certainly lose a lot on note. Most people don't realize that household dust is mainly skin. As throughout. Oh, you're breathing yourself in your house. Mates in isn't, isn't that true? So when when the skin is is young and youthful, yours mine. Why does it different from someone who's got cranky and needs lipstick like Haiti in? I'm just kidding eighteen or over in Clinton leathery. But someone who's going to ancient. Get more ancient, we will get more wrinkly on our skin will be softened less less vibrant looking. It's just it just what happens. So we lose some thickness to our skin. As we get older, we get dryer because Greece gland stop working quite so well. So so we look look a bit dollar and dollar and definitely saggier. If you pinch the back of your hand, for example, in between the so my daughter earlier, you just sort of raise the skin like a tent immediately Ping's back in her. But in me, it's turned tie. The time is a few seconds. So why is that? That's your term that isn't. It hasn't got as much collagen and elastic in as it did when you're younger wise, that that's natural aging process, but that magnified by the effects of the sun. So that's one of the major effect of having a lot of sun exposures. We get collagen damage and as we get older, both collagen lasted on produced. So when I go to a supermarket or chemist or something. By an anti aging cream or something to make me look a bit younger, how do those things work? If they work defy define the eye potentially on defying the IRS and actually doing something physically to spill, they'll do certain things like every cream, they'll keep moisture in the skin. So they'll stop your skin, looking dried up and stop it drying up quite so much. As the day goes on, they might have a little bit of a shine to them. Of course, if they contain greasy things so that dull look, that can make you look older, you can lose that, but the creams put forward as anti aging creams. There's a bit of a debate as to how well they work because they really need to get down into the Durmus to do something that collagen and elastic, and they don't do that as well as as well on actual skin as they do in cell culture, for instance. So the only the only constituent of anti-aging creams that really has good evidence behind it. The retinoids retinal vitamin. Chemicals on the. That's right. A similar to bittermann a but put on the surface. They do seem to go deep enough to produce a measurable effect on wrinkles. And what is that? If they encouraging the skin to what make more elastic tissue collagen collagen? Yes. And that is out the wrinkles bit? Yes. But of course, it'll really only work when you're using it and the tests that he used to measuring cools a pretty detailed. So whether you would notice a huge difference, probably not. You might notice a little difference to the end of a treatment period with it. And when one does slap on lots of makeup day after day after day, relentlessly is evidence that that's bad for, does that age harm or damage the skin or does not make any difference? Well, as long as you don't react to the makeup, you're putting on, you don't develop an allergy to it, which is always possible. And as long as it's not a drying dehydrating effect on the skin, then there should be no long term problems for makeup. One other thing that you can sometime. Do if it's a really heavy sort of conceal a makeup can bring up acne spots, but otherwise should be no long term damage as a relief. John. Thank you very much, less Jane. Sterling. She's dumb tallest Adam Bruce hospital, and thank you very much to our other guests this week there in Swamy John Emsley and season ten. And interestingly, we are recent Twitter poll asking you listeners if you do or would use anti aging products and the majority of you said, yes. Now to finish the program, Sam Brown wants to wet your appetite with the answer to this question from Daniel. If I stand in the shallow end of us, women goal don't feel the pressure of the water around my legs. But if I put my while his own stand in the. Do feel the pressure of the water mind our likes. Why is this forum use a chemist thinks that it's likely to be the Weli is causing uneven pressure that is noticed by us pressure from fluids is the product of three combining offense, the acceleration due to gravity, the depth of the fluid and the fluid density professor column coalfield from the department of applied mathematics and theoretical physics, Cambridge University agrees. It turns out with all the pressure all the time. There's one hundred kilometers of the earth's atmosphere pressing down on us. Think of a hat with the square, rigid brim of ten centimeters by ten centimeters. When we do the calculations, we find roughly one hundred kilograms of atmosphere is pressing down on that hat. It sounds like a lot, but we are used to it. And so we don't typically notice what we are actually strongly since two to changes in pressure are is pop, go up a hill, and we can experience discomfort as a plane lands and pressure equalizers. To answer our question from Daniel. There are three key points. We must keep in mind. Firstly, water is much denser than there. So pressure changes more rapidly with that. Just ten meters depth of water exerts pressure, roughly equivalent to the entire atmosphere. Then explains why submarines need to be steadily built. Secondly, when you were going to boot, they hopefully keep you dry. And so there is always a layer of air around your legs and feet anywhere that there is airing contact with skin. The skin will be feeling atmospheric pressure. Finally, Wellington boots are flexible and so can be affected and bend due to differences of pressure on the inside and outside. So with bare legs in water, the water pressure is felt uniformly around the skin. The pressure variation is down the leg and is gradual. And so you don't notice anything except perhaps where your legs break the surface. Now consider the way that pressure changes around the boot over the debt of the puddle. It changes much more rapidly in the water outside than the air inside. If the puddle is deep enough, eventually the pressure difference will be big enough to cause the boot to buckle and the rigidity of the boot will shift the forces around squeezing your legs and toes in certain places. It is this contrast in where the boot touches and where it doesn't that we notice. So they have it as what we can do about it. Maybe try wearing chunky next time to keep the rallies from buckling words in the next question of the week when it's all I ever and smoke clears, we hope to be left with the answer to this question from Bethany, my colleagues and I have had a rather heated debate in the office recently sparked by one of them saying that second hand smoke is more likely to give you cancer and actually smoking a cigarette. I was shocked when I hear this and struggles believe it. What did you guys wrecking issue? Right? Well, they say there's no smoke without fire. So is this missed or is there a spark of truth to it? Sunday thoughts to Chris on the naked scientists dot com, or you can join in the debate on the forum that's naked scientists, dot com slash form. And that's what we have time for this week. Thank you to KT for putting the program together, do short to join us next week for a q. and I show we've got four brilliant minds becoming into answer the questions that you've been sending in speaking of which if the something you'd like to ask, why not send it to us? Now, it's Chris at the naked scientists dot com. The naked scientists comes to you from Cambridge University and supported by the sea and Rolls Royce. I'm Chris Smith and thank you very much for listening. Goodbye.

UK ADHD Peter Higgs partner Suzanne Turner John Emsley Cambridge Katie halo Anglia Ruskin university Cambridge University university of Liverpool l. h. c. Tara Brunell Pyan Gummidge Gino Mike konczal engineer Spitfire
Did We Just Experience a Break in the Neoliberal Consensus?

Odd Lots

1:00:06 hr | 3 weeks ago

Did We Just Experience a Break in the Neoliberal Consensus?

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the odd lots podcast. I'm joe weisenthal. Alloway tracy you know one of the big things big themes i think that has Especially in the last year pervaded our episode is really just this idea of like the forty year trend more or less starting in the in the early volker years years of declining rates monetary policy dominant. And the question now is are we at some sort of turn in the direction the economy some meaningful sustained change in how we approach economic policy. Yeah i guess the the low rates aspect of it is still up for debate but certainly we have seen this. Talk of a hand off from monetary policy to fiscal policy. There seems to be a lot more room in certainly the us political landscape to actually talk about things that the government could do on this front in a way that got stamped out much much more quickly In earlier years. I think i think that's exactly right. I mean like we look back at this period and so many of these discussions they really do. Come back to politics political choices and whether something is in the air something in the water or something fundamental shifting search that we can sort of break out of the old expectations about what government can and can't do how much it can release spend and whether that will really produce a policy shift that would meaningfully changing maybe it meaningfully result in higher rates maybe result in higher inflation. Maybe result in higher sustained wages fuller employment so far and so forth all kinds of questions like that and so we seem to be at a moment where a lot of these questions. A lot of stuff. that seemed impossible suddenly seemed possible. Yeah there's also an aspect of this that i think often gets missed. Which is you know. People talk about the possibility of the government doing more or being more involved in economic policy. And things like that and they always framing like before the government wasn't involved at all but of course the current system. Even you know even if you categorize it as liberal or light touch or however you wanna put it was devised by the government like the actual economic system that we have in place was made through political choices and so there's a possibility that political choices can change and we can get something different. Yeah i think that's that's basically a one hundred percent right people have this idea okay. There's some sort of state of economic neutrality when the government is hands off and other government will intervene in some way But of course dad setup that we had then or the setup that we have right now is also just the result of perhaps a different set of policies choices and those political choices are of course subject to change. And i think it's potentially happening right now. I should note. it's very important. Were recording this march ninth round six pm. There is scheduled to be a a vote tomorrow. And hopefully that happens only so that We don't have to rerecord Intro but you know. The house is scheduled to pass this one point nine trillion dollar stimulus that the senate passed just this weekend which really does open up this a question of are we going to do fiscal policy in a way the likes of which we haven't seen. Yeah i think that's fair. Yeah so the question really is are we at a turn here. We have two great guests. That i'm very excited to speak to. They'll help us think through. The current policy stands and the history and so forth. We're going to be speaking with scott. Munaf he's the research director at employ america as well as mike konczal. He's the director at the roosevelt institute. And he is the author of a new book freedom from the market. America's fight to liberate itself from the grip of the invisible hand so very excited to get his perspective. And i thought about this discussion and that we should have this discussion actually back in january. Because it was a tweet from S- kanda in. He asked this question Which is is essentially are we at some structural break from neoliberalism in some way. Are we at this trend break and that really is the key question did Did something just turned. So let's start with that We'll try to answer that right off. The bat are we at this structural break. So mike unscom to thank you so much for joining us. I really want to start with that term. That word neoliberalism. Because i mean it's kind of a joke. I would say like on twitter. People always used that word neoliberal neoliberalism the new liberal consensus without any sort of idea of what. We're actually talking about what that meant. So i'd love to get your perspective. I'll start with us. Gone to both of you. Come in if you like. What are we actually talking about When we throw that term the neoliberal consensus around. So thanks for having me. I think i agree that it has been overused as a word. Just describe things. People don't like Particularly from those on the left. But at the same time i think it also has some substantive meaning does capture a certain arc that you were referring to earlier so we go back to some of the people who have defined themselves as neo liberals from people like milton friedman in a nineteen fifty one essay about neoliberalism to charles. Peters he added a sort of washington post abed on neoliberalism nineteen eighty-two if you try to find the common threads in where this all fits is rooted in a skepticism of democratic and political power in terms of organizing society. That's at least how i would. If i were to really try to break this down to some sort of crude shorthand it would be de emphasizing the democratic forms of power and trying to rely more on markets. And if you're coming maybe a little bit more from the left is probably reliance on technocratic governance and maybe reliance on academia to really solve some of these problems if you think about the fed in sort of its arc in terms of dominating macroeconomic policymaking the fed's independence is sort of this mix of markets and academics. In the sense that the fed is trusted because they are the macroeconomic experts and at the same time. They're also kind of relying on the banking system to respond in a certain way to their policies. And that is the way in which you will get full employment and stable macroeconomic policy. So it's really delegating out functions. That were maybe thought of as traditionally in the domain of congress and the president and really trying to rely more on technocracy and markets to really organize that sort of society some elicited with this definition for short so mike. I want to ask you about something. That's kinda just said. Which is this idea of. Sort of market based structure or market's dictating the ultimate outcome. Is there a good historical example of that actually working well. 'cause i think nowadays were so used to talking about market based systems not really doing what people would like them to do or not providing certain you know social needs in the way that some people might have expected or eastwood would aim for is there an example in history where a market base system worked and it was sort of you know the pinnacle of neoliberal economic policy. Sure so i'm just go back to its style. Scandal said one reason the terms a little weird as the term liberal is a little weird in. Us context because some people use it to mean the new deal and big activist government. The great society other people tend to want it to mean a more traditional. What we often call libertarian idea and what what people often emphasizes about this classical liberalism is the affirmative role of the state yet on the they. The neoliberal is understood themselves. New if you actually read hayek and friedman you'll see pretty clearly. The interesting is affirmative state-building building project and the project. The goal that project is to subordinate democracy to the market and put in the story Videon describes encasement around the market to prevent it from democrat challenges. So that's why sometimes the the question about like what's an example of like a neo-liberal solution. That work is often a little weird. Because it's in the context of devolving privatizing voucher rising or otherwise removing the public -ness of public institutions in public programs. You there's a lot of things involved markets that work all the time. I'm single payer. Healthcare involves a lot of markets on the side of hiring doctors buying bandages. What is unique about is that it is removed from market dependences. The big thing to go into my book. The market is out individuals intersect with healthcare under single payer. Though obviously you even under the uk doctors are employed employed by the state in that case There's still markets and price mechanisms and and incentives is but your ability to access isn't dependent on the logic of ability to pay and profit-seeking activity. So that's why you know. There's a lot of solutions that involve markets and some things in which markets which have existed before capitalism will exist after a complete very important part of solutions. But it's the the supremacy is the dominance of the market dependency in the market logic. I think that's texas people off guard and sarah did. Something happened in the interests like okay. Forty years forty years volker. Nine thousand nine hundred eighty. Is that actually a meaningful turning point in your in your book mike or when you look at the history of economic thought economic policy is that a real moment or is that kind of an arbitrary thing that we identify because thirty year yield peaked. Then it started going down after his tenure. There's a real emphasis to run the clock back earlier. Lotta deregulatory moves under president carter. A lot of choices made about the nature of corporate structure in the sixties and early seventies. I think the shock of volcker was enough of a massive change under which on the flip side of which iran concurrently with lorena top end markets tax rates of very An increase in the decrease of of unionization the doubling of the rise of Sheriff finance and the economy. So i think it does mark a break though as is in the nature of scholarship. Look the more you see things. You seek actions running earlier. But i do think in particularly in what we're talking about here monetary policy macroeconomics. There's definitely a shift where the fed is viewed in a much different way. And the role of economic theory and macroeconomics also changes pretty fowler. Can sorry can you elaborate on that point a little bit more. What do you mean when you say. The fed is viewed very differently nowadays. sure so scandal. If he wants to jump in down the conversation both you sure so. I think the fed itself. If you think about the fifties sixties seventies eighties what really changed about the institutional centers of power on macroeconomic policy. And if he's in sixties the council of economic advisers is one of the key institutions thinking about like what to do macroeconomic policy to kind of kennedy is leaning on of passing tax cuts. You see like little things that sound like they okay. Tax cuts and sort of the kennedy years You start to see some similar measures past future decades but really it's fiscal policy that sort of the center of it monetary policy still doing some things around recessions and maybe some cases a pretty critical but the bulk sort of sort of crystallizes the sort of role of the fed in this process. The fed is going to be willing to hike rates to the point of putting people out of work and causing a recession. I think there are different. Parts of different parts of the policy apparatus. If you step away from macro from a sack of those breaks can happen at different times. I do think in the case of when reagan was elected. And when carter was elected they had certain ideas that were different from their predecessors so carter more so than lyndon b johnson reagan more so than nixon so there were some shifts in terms of the philosophy around. How much do we trust democratic forms of governance to really work and look for a lot of people who were already skeptical the state during the new deal. It was sort of natural Go along these lines for a lot of people who may have been a more optimistic about what democratic governance can achieve. You can look at with vietnam. War was going on. There's a lot of stuff that the government's doing that sort of breed mistrust rational reasons for justifiable reasons. And that also helps to catalyze will. Maybe government really shouldn't be doing this or we're going to be doing this. We should be doing it in a way. That's really deferring to the market and leaning on the marketing solution and again it starts still a really warped set of default rules around how we really structure all of these things. The default rule is. Let's i try to do this through. The market tried to cut rates and hope that banks and financial intermediaries lend more money than they lend more money. That will also help to get the economy on milton. Friedman was the one who said. I want to make the fed into a computer. I want to turn all the stuff into something automatic that we really can't lean on sort of a lot of these self-dealing politicians to solve. And so that. I think is kind of a sort of wit's end on some of stuff now because if you're leaning on interest rate policy to do the work of macroeconomic stabilization. It's necessary but it's not sufficient. I guess that's the way i put it. I'd also just throw in that you. It's easy to characterize economists views of that in this time period. And i don't. I don't think there's a genuine belief that the federal reserve had solved the problem of the business cycle by solely interceding short term interest rates and communicating their path. Through getting or some sort of medium-term target you know the era of the great moderation i think gave intellectual bolster nist. They're like help. Bolster that as concept but evaporated and that is the notion of what. The fed is doing these financial center in the way. The fed is really controlling. The long term yields the long term interest rate the end rate at which individuals use interest rates in access credit and the wave fiscal situation evolves the interconnectedness of monetary policy with all other facets economy which was very strong part of how world war two was executed in its aftermath. I it was kind of living memory in that mid century period. Head evaporate into this much more the'real like computerized mathematical sense of that. You know what the small intervention by the smallest intervention the smallest cut you could make you could dictate the macro economy. And that's what failed in the great recession though we spent a decade trying to figure out what to make of that so that might might've seems like a good sort of turning point to the sort of like the question or the The squanders tweet about this. The trend break now and it feels like that. Sort of like great moderation triumphalism. We figured out really came to a crashing halt with the financial crisis in two thousand eight two thousand nine and then we had like decade of still mostly leaning on the fat and the central bank even though a guest by that point on some level the idea that we could control the economy through overnight short term interest rates kind of discredited. Now we come to sort the post virus period and this question of like is this is are we on the new thing. Is we finally ready to have a macro policy that is truly like sort of like post fed in some sense so scandal like start off like you posed that thought on twitter. Is this the trend break. What are the sort of. What's the affirmative argument for. Yes this is the the meaningful the turn is here so i think just to go back to when i posted this tweet as about a week after both the georgia runoffs. I guess the the dc yes Sort of cut the capital riots. It's whenever on call Yes is the insurrection. I think a lot of people would focus obviously on january. Six person obvious reasons. I yeah generally thinking more about the georgia runoffs in the sense that you actually had the stars align and i think i am generally someone who doesn't like to make big calls because there that's hard and it's something that i've generally skeptical of when people do start to dislike always say this is the big moment but there's a lot of things that are going for this moment that are not have not been true for a long time. One is the political consensus in a very different place in the sense of whether fiscal policy is warranted in markets discussions. We've talked about. Is this the moment where monetary policy fiscal policy for quite some time. Now it's been about. Almost i would say it's almost a decade of that kind of speak. Where kind of saw. There was a lot of focus on cutting the deficit in two thousand eleven. Two thousand twelve twenty thirteen and it kind of just was running on fumes. There was lot of hype about this infrastructure week. Is this the week when trump is gonna take fiscal policy really seriously that was the whole thrust of the trump trade in markets in the member. Twenty sixteen. I think in general people will say that this largely well-meaning you get tax cuts out of that tax cuts. That didn't really move the needle on either inflation or growth in a meaningful way. I would say and so now. We're at this point where you have the political consensus there but you also have legislative like capacity where there are fifty senators who can pass reconciliation bill and while there is a lot of room between bernie sanders and joe manchin. They're all pretty much on board with the using fiscal policy pretty aggressively. They may have different philosophies about how to fund certain policy measures but they are at least open to it and that is different from what you saw in previous instances when there was one party in control of both the house senate and the white house where you had. This sort of alignment in terms of discolored thousand nine or nineteen ninety-three but the people didn't really believe that fiscal policy was the thing to do. I think people really under just how much of faith there was. That fiscal policy really isn't the right. Fiscal policy is needed. Monetary policy will take care of it. Let's focus on cutting the deficit. Let's try to cut government spending where it's wasteful even among the democratic party which we think of more on the left so those stars have aligned on the legislative side. Which i don't think would have been true if georgia run austin. Go the way they did. So you need to have that you kind of and now the question is. Can you get responsiveness. Where people see that the aarp passes and then people see the benefits of it and think this works and then even people who are maybe of these measures start to think that there is some sort of political incentive some social incentive to actually pursue these policies in the future. So if people see this as a success then. I think it's more replicable. Right now is sort of the testing ground for phase. Where this past. We're going to have to see how people digested do. People blame the rescue package as a sort of to create all these other problems or people are gonna say actually all these people standard of living have really improved in a material way. And now i'm more inclined to vote for joe biden and for democrats because they pass this and it really made my life better moog enough to see you but i think the odds are better now than they were even two months ago or three months ago. I should say the sense that like. We have a package on the table. Let's historic in nature. And the paul krugman like this is sufficient to actually get us out of current rut. I think that's meaningful so. I just want to dwell on this point a little bit because you know like joe and i were discussing intro. These are all ultimately political choices. So i think it's worth spending time on how the political consensus actually shifts. But what are the conditions in place in twenty twenty that allowed this potential shift or at least testing of a new type of policy to actually be put in motion and how were they different to previous economic crises. Like two thousand eight where we did see a lot of popular outrage about things that had happened. We did see some cries for help to offset mortgages and things like that but they didn't really lead to a big break in the consensus Mike maybe this one's for you absolutely So two things jump out. The are different right now than were different last decade. Let's stick with inside the centre-left technocracy and especially within the democratic party. Because i think it's very easy to say it's the tea party it's austerity. It's the hypocrisy on the dead on the right but the reason a lot of the stuff failed to take. Admission in two thousand nine was because it was coming from inside that administration of prisoners. Early years and one is that you had in two thousand nine. You had a white house. In center-left technocracy that walked in thinking that the deficit was a fund next essential threat to the economy that the trade deficit that we are borrowing too much from china. We are on borrowed time that there is a bond market bubble. That fundamentally long-term debt was a serious impediment to dealing with short and medium-term processes. And i want emphasize this was not like a set of trade offs. Where it's like. Well you know maybe we might spend too much on net interest payment or something like that that they really was concerned that the government might not be able to issue bonds or that there would be some sort of catastrophe or something that fundamentally lowered the long-term growth potential united states things reinhart rogoff cliff others all kinds of inner inner workings around this kind of stuff. And if you weren't there actually go back and remember. Because i was like i was there but was really hysterical if you go back and read some of that stop and that's gone. That's not there now. There's a lot of different flowers that have gotten us there But the idea that the deficit could be investment that the deficit is fundamentally under our control and poses. Whatever problems we wanted to or that inflict in the mta version. That inflation is the real check. We need to watch for all that bolstered by the fact that interest rates did in fact decline while inflation was under trend utterly discredited that regime. That was really powerful at the time. So when people think of the deficit on their thinking one of the fact that they are stuff that we need to do. And there's an opportunity to do it and the problems that could arise from large-scale deficits further down. The road are more manageable and more of a gradual in long term problem as opposed to some catastrophe. That's one the second. I remember this quite wells in two thousand sixteen. A lot of centre-left technocrats thought that unemployment could fundamentally not get below five percent for any sustained period of time maybe four and a half percent. This blew up in a lot of different ways in the context of the twenty sixteen primary. There's an economist named jails friedman who said that unemployment could dramatically lower for a long period of time associated with bernie. Sanders campaign is a lot of fighting about it but a lot of people put in the senate left will put their cards on the table and said we were near full employment in two thousand sixteen where it was about four point nine percent or something like that. We got unemployment below four percent for two years at three and a half percent for six months basically before covid head and there's every indication that it was going to continue to improve on the participation side that i think blindsided a lot of people because if you're thinking there's one and a half percent of the labor force that could have been employed at any moment with no downside. Donald trump was winning on polling for the economy going into the election. That's like probably in large part because you had sustained low wage growth fiddle twenty nineteen which had not seen in generation labor markets expanding which way in ways that which is not seen except for a brief period in the late nineties and here was much more sustained so the idea that you could ambig- and the economist who want to say that there are some sort of upper limit and if unemployment gets too low everything's going to go sideways that's been discredited in pretty profound way and those are things elected listen to because they pay consequences for unemployment being too high. They consequences when they didn't increase the deficit and the early twenty tens in only saw like the fact that you know they didn't get any upside and there's a lot of downside both politically and economically so both those things i think were important changes that are hopefully going to play out and sustain themselves in the years ahead. You ought to come in on. That looks like you are mistakenly. Yes so i just to tack onto. Mike said i agree wholeheartedly. Unbooked points a lot of those instincts of the twenty tens were also rooted in trying to replicate the one thousand nine hundred ninety s. We think about what people saw. As the sort of re success of high wage growth economy low on employment in the final two years of the nineteen ninety two thousand expansion that was a period in which there was a lot of focus on deficit reduction and the private sector will sort of software itself. And if we do the same things if we cut the focus on cutting the deficit the fed will keep rates. Low and things are themselves twenty. Tens is a big rejection of that. Because yes actually. The deficit did go down over. The course of the two thousand ten's despite that you did not have a robust recovery and when a lot of especially technocratic democrats are technocratic liberals talk larry summers paul krugman were people who were initially very supportive of ambitious fiscal policy and then in two thousand sixteen especially after trump was elected talked about. How now is the time for deficit reduction. They were critical of the tax cuts from the standpoint that they would overheat the economy and so it would actually create inflation and that was pretty clearly disproven. Right yes the tax cuts begin probably agree. That didn't really change the regime growth in a meaningful way and it also didn't also change the regime of inflation itself so something about deficits causing inflation deficits being unsustainable some. This doesn't add up. So i think there's a lot of learning that happened especially on the back half of the decade for people who really bought into these and then you kind of look back at twenty ten to twenty fifteen and you say that was a really slow recovery. Do we really have to do all this stuff. And also the byproduct of sort of islam obstructionism. And how do you avoid obstructionism. Maybe with a more ambitious stimulus in two thousand nine and ten and so the lessons kind of have come from. I realizing that the nineteen ninety s. There's a lot about that which was not going to be replicable very easily. Especially when you have this sort of balance sheet recession of the two thousand two thousand ten scenario and now you see there's just take vienna. Enna is sort of the attitude. The biden administration stake now. We're like we want to make sure that the be used this opportunity to actually legislate as much as needed and not just try to toggle at the edges. The way i think people like their summers. Olivia chard are really worried. Well what if this is too much. I think that's something they do not want to ask that question if you just reading the tea. Leaves of what. The biden administration and senior democrats are saying now the us as the richest nation in the world and has been for a long time but while black people make up around thirteen percent of the population. They hold just three percent of all the wealth. I'm jacky simmons. And i'm rebecca greenfield starting march eleventh. The new season of bloomberg's the paycheck. We'll be diving into the racial wealth gap came to be. It was deeply deeply racist. He couldn't have cared less about the fate of the former slaves and Heave restored white supremacy as quickly as he could what it looks like. Now he was the next thing to god and his. He controlled all the bank boards. He said nobody men's more money in this county the not do. And if you're gonna learn how to speak to me you're not gonna get any money and you won't be very long and what might start to close it. Yes it is reparations. Less matt call it anything else to make you feel better. Subscribe to the paycheck on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you on march eleven so first of all was i find some of your answers. Both of your answer to be kind of heartening because like this idea that maybe evidence changes people's minds have always been sort of skeptical of that premise. But maybe it actually. Does you know scott. You mentioned Alleviate blonde short and some of these sort of like Grand names and economics. But i'm also thinking like one of the things that we saw in the last ten years. Was this incredible. Like opening up of the playing field of who like got to talk about economics and Like you know like. I've been following your writing in tweets for like probably literally like twelve years now like you're blogging back in two thousand eight scanner. You've been talking for a while like pseudonymously now more prominently but like anyone can talk now. There's a lot of twitter and we. It's been noted that actually the biden administration has recruited like a bunch of prominent like sort of like twitter voices to do policy. And i'm curious like in a real sense. Like how much has this opening up of. Like who got to a pine. And maybe you didn't need to be at a university anymore. Maybe you don't need to be like some like look. You know big person at the. I'm effort something like that. How much has this opening up of. Who gets the right to talk. Pine sort of benefactor that change the debate in this sort of like decade between the great financial crisis and the cova crisis. I'll jump in. i say we. We saw this with the financial crisis. Where a lot of people turn to the blogosphere of amateur a financial experts are often unready under pseudonyms. As i was at the time many other people to kind of understand it in real time because the experts were caught not understand what was happening. And i think that same kind of instinct of it's not if you experienced the economic sphere online in twitter on on on other places. You'll notice that it's a. It's an evolving argument with a lot of evidence and a lot of careful policing of how people are Not policing like don't say that way but like in like building better arguments. I'm really putting the evidence to the to the front in a way that the research process doesn't really do this very well. A lot of the stuff we write in talk about Who is unemployed. What is the the sense in which inflation is a worry. That's not the kind of stuff. Academics can get tenure though it's essential for the making space so it feels it feels marketing. That's poorly served and it's also like the best arguments really do of all very pretty quickly up the chain and they're still uncustomary tigresses alive but like there's a way in which people can really step up to the moment and it really does get arguments out there that are not seen very well or don't transfer themselves very well through the way the academy produces research if i were to on a little bit on the sort of how people revise their priors. And how do we actually learn and make course corrections. A lot of what. You're talking about on the twitter twitter discourse and how people sort of can everyone can speak is sort of what the behind sir. Democratic governance is supposed to capture that. This is a way to solve problems in a way. That's actually responsive to a lot of people's interest in the end can't easily be solved by the market or by experts in some ways. Actually i'm very stunned by how of the same actors who were policing the the use of fiscal policy in the early two thousand fifteen are still the same Experts who are trying to police fiscal policy. Now there's not as effective right and so the same same characters are there. They're just not as effective so that in some ways other people are being elevated. And why are they being elevated is a good question in. Somebody's is more of a small d democratic governance question. It's also something that i think you can see. Even in markets like sorta the strength. I would say of certain types of market structures market. Governance is the ability to recognize when things are not going according to your hypothesis. Right you can actually see how things change and say. This doesn't fit that theory or my. I have to revise it and market participants. I would say a little bit ahead of the sort of high brow academics in terms of just understanding. Okay we're at low interest rates right now and now. What's next because really monetary policy has some certain limit functional limits on what it can do. We're going to have to have some kind of fiscal moment. This has been sort of consensus for some time. I would say mark themselves. Don't solve that problem right. You actually do need to have certain types of political structures place to actually try to solve them and you need democrat. Democracy kind of has its share burdens. But it also has to share strengths in terms of meal to respond to the moment and not take the differential trust the experts or trust the market approach. And say. there's something going on here that we need to rapidly revise least. There's something about the discourse on social media it's very flat culture that can actually allow for a lot of different people from different backgrounds to really check each other on what they're what are the claims being made decent actually fit the facts. Make sure you're not making obvious descriptive errors and that kind of discourse there's a lot of texas city on twitter too but at least if you can avoid the toxicity there is some room for that kind of deliberative open minded discourse after elsie onto doubt where he can find. Can i ask you both a question as host. You are well known finance professionals. Do you know jay powell's burner count. I have to tell us who it is by. Forget at some point. I knew and it doesn't follow me so i've forgotten who if only i'm sure i would remember now i really don't wanna know because if it didn't follow me okay. So this is a really interesting conversation. But i want to try to put some of it into i guess more concrete practice so we agreed that there's the potential break in the moment is now We're testing a bunch of new policies. What are some of the actual Examples of this new thinking that are being put into place and that you are watching as a test case. And i'm curious also. How do you evaluate the success of those programs like what would count as a successful sort of instance of this new thinking. I think re the rescue package is probably going to determine whether the sting can actually be applicable in terms of. Are we going to see that people think this works care is in some ways also showed that ultimately people liked the steamy money right. They like the checks they. A lot of people really appreciated the six hundred dollars came with you. I there are aspects. Ppp was quite popular bird small businesses so there are policy solutions that came out of congress had some individuals success whether people think other parts of cares for good or bad the implementation. Being some standard. There was at least the prospect that this can work. If you start to see that the rescue pack package one you can actually say that it helped and people really digested as working they. The recovery act of two thousand nine was pretty big for its time and at the same time it was not nearly enough and was very easy to say it really just like just linda boondoggles. It's a bunch of waste see. The economy's still struggling to recovery. That's how you know that fiscal stimulus doesn't work. The counterfactual would have been worse. But people don't think in terms of counterfactual is at least in terms of their intuitions. So if you if. It actually helps to shape people's intuitions to wanting to into the to the point where you actually want to do this again. Maybe not in the exact one point nine trillion on paid for spending but rather we can find other solutions that work for fiscal policy. That meet the moment and meet what's needed. I think that starts to change people's perceptions about what's possible There's a certain feedback loop. That's if republicans may be on the next. Go around start to see that. Actually this worked. We probably shouldn't be there have been part of the solution or be willing to offer a more compelling counteroffer. Those are the kinds of things. Where i'd say. Something's changing where people want to actually govern and not just sort of delegate or hope and trust the market or some experts will come with right answers later down the line some things. I'm washing for last year. In the one is that We reduced in the middle of the crisis in quarter. Two of last year unemployment was probably twenty percent. We re probably technically in a depression but the fiscal policies able to reduce poverty. And we're going to cut child poverty in half this year hopefully in a program that evolves and becomes much more clear and straightforward. You the fact that even in very difficult economic times the level of poverty is a policy choice. I think was shown. Last year is reflected in the bill this year last year the federal reserve intervened directly into credit and interest rate policy on the long end of the curve for municipalities for corporations for the secondary market. A lot of controversy a lot of fighting about a but it showed that the fed is already thinking and will continue to evolve the way beyond just short-term interest rates in some guidance on the long end that will have important consequences for climate change as the federal almost certainly have to be directly or indirectly involved with the funneling of credit towards green energy products and green energy investment infrastructure. The overhaul that happened in the. We're still learning that we're still figuring it out but that's gonna be with us for some time as well this year. I think if you actually get the economy back to trend at the end of next year you've basically just proven the theory of history system the idea that we need to understand that recessions would have built in downward curve and then you can put pressure on the idea of potential output in the way it's deployed classically. The idea that overheating economy has positive spillovers that can increase productive capacity. Which makes sense intuitively but doesn't fit well into they the nuts and bolts and models of of neoclassical economics. So i think it's gonna take some time to see all the things that are different but even the fact that you a lot of politicians talked about we need to do more risk. Doing too much is is less than doing too little Overshoot i thought it was like a metaphor when they were saying if they are actually going to try to do it. They're going to try to shoot potential output and they'll probably at the way it is defined on the books at the cbo which saw ready kind of a mess if successful that just will throw in a completely different way about the idea that we should be responding much more quickly and rapidly recessions rather than something that largely will work itself out with some time so those are all encouraging developments. The you know some people have been emphasizing the balance-sheet nature of repairing balance sheets. That's embedded in the american recovery plan on fixing balance sheets of transit higher pensions State municipalities things that tend to get scaled down and never recover In a quote recovery. A lot of those political problems are gonna disappear in a few weeks provided a passes the house. So that's gonna open up a lot of space. So i think there's a lot of new frontiers and we don't even there's so much going on we don't even know the mall yet but i think they're all encouraging for a so in a second. I wanna pivot real quickly at the end of the conversation and turned this into an episode. About semiconductors i m e conductor series of talk about industrial policy but before we do that real quickly you know. We've we've talked a lot about fiscal policy. And that's basically been our discussion. There has been also pivot at the fed itself and there is. There was this framework review that over the last several years announced in august that they are committing to not preemptively fight. Inflation actually sort of like let things run hot and away. They hadn't been chairman. Paul talks a lot about now just using some sort of headline unemployment rate to judge. We're at full employment but also like really look it like are the gains of employment being spread to minority groups preview groups which previously didn't enjoy the fruits of recovery at the same way. I don't know one of you want to talk a little bit about like there has been an intellectual evolution even at the central bank aside from the politics of expansionary fiscal policy. Yeah i think that the fed's framework review and its subsequent forward guidance policy in september of twenty twenty really indicative of that major shift in the sense that they won started to say. Actually we don't need a target a specific unemployment rate our target a specific level of employment. We actually should be always aiming at least for employment improvement and we should never be saying too much employment in the economy. The problem if inflation the problem. Inflation's a problem but that's not the same thing that's a really big shift from the world. We live in the seventies eighties and nineties and even beyond that where everyone in the world of sort of economic said well. Okay once you get below a certain level of unemployment all you're going to get as much of inflation so let's just try to get it right on a pin that's changed where there is like an openness to we don't really know where these things are and we really don't wanna do any harm. I mean you actually want to let the economy show what is capable of in some ways. What j. powell's own statements subsequent to the framework review. We're really focused on congress. You have the spending authority. We have the lending authority. The spending authority is actually much more powerful for shaping. A lot of these outcomes that is itself an inversion of what you saw in the nineteen nineties when greenspan was hiking rates in nineteen ninety four and at the same time talking about how there are. Bond market vigilantes so clinton should not be so ambitious about fiscal policy so that contrast is very vivid the the framework review itself and i said jay powell statements are both revealing of that shift towards. Actually we do need congress. We're not gonna solve this thing on our own. We're going to have to have some flexibility and not just try to target a specific level of unemployment or targeted specific level of inflation. So there's just a little more flexibility on that side and that that shows some level of institutional learning and that's good and from there it's about are we going to learn more every actually going to try and it's going to be hard sometimes because there is still a little all sorts of conflicts and tensions and it may not be the case that people learn all the right lessons at the right times. But there's at least now the chance to really test some of this stuff out in terms of we are seeing ambitious visco policy cooperative monetary policy of not limiting constraints that way. Can i ask one quick question before We continue our never ending semiconductor series but the recent backup in bond yields. I've seen a few people characterize that as the beginning of you know. Pushback from the bond vigilant which. I don't exactly agree with but i'm curious if you have opinions on why we're getting that backup at in yields at a time when you know central banks morla or less are promising to keep benchmark rates pretty low is that all The work of I guess the market adapting to this idea of more stimulus. I'll jump in first year. I think that the the sort of bond market backup you've seen right now has also coincided with especially since georgia runoffs emergency stronger dollar and general equity rally has largely continued answered in light of that. It's it's all consistent what they repricing of. Us growth to my mind and there's thinking about the defense guidance is rooted in outcomes. Now comes maximum employment and sort of achieving at least two percent inflation for a twelve month period. So those two things are really. We don't know what time it's gonna take to that on on. What dimensions is maximum. Employment really been achieved and how that can change itself over time so there are a lot of open questions. That are not strictly about timeline. We are also giving every ourselves every opportunity both through the sort of vaccine distribution and through the fiscal ambition seem right now of actually achieving robust growth getting back to at least the pre pandemic labor market on a sort of reasonable time horizon and those are also very encouraging about what the growth trajectory looks like not just in twenty one but in two thousand twenty two right so with all that in place i think that the bond markets general curves deepens whenever you see sort of low interest rates and you're kind of coming out of Y you've already cut interest rates. Now the question is what's the time by which you actually get the recovery where interest rate policy might be more in question and especially since the fed's not going to cut rates negative anytime soon. It looks like there is sort of an asymmetry that the market is repricing quite understandably maybe even a little belatedly on the belatedly point had a write up for the day after the election about if there was a jump in bond yields on Trifecta in early november. What would you know how to understand that. As essentially a pricing in an investment package in the same way the trump administration trump was elected in. That was a pretty surprised event. I think for the marquette you saw a run up though his term before cove at his term Before cove yields at the same rate if not lower depending on you went in address because of the fact that the democrats control the senate because of the contested nature of the presidential election. You know it wasn't until mid-january even had a sense that democrats could pass something and up until a few weeks ago the idea that it would be two trillion. Be this really major fiscal push. I don't think it was quite as processed ranch. It so some of it's just readjusting for what is about to happen. Which i think is appropriate and good and still on a long-term timeline. Still rates are incredibly low and the capacity is far beyond what what can imagine all right before we go. I do want to continue. Defacto are semiconductor series and the reason is relevant is because there is this big discussion about the role of industrial policy and whether the us can through policy Actually sort of restore domestic. Somebody conductor manufacturing we're experiencing shortages odd. Lots listeners know well and You wrote about that. Until i wanna get you know. You're sort of brief thoughts on what it would take. And then mike. I'd like to get your from the historical perspective from your research industrial policy. Not leaving it up to the invisible hand all the time. What is sort of history. Tell us about when the political will manifest to create a You know do. Industrial policy created domestic industry. So i i along with my colleague. Alex williams wrote a piece about what we've seen more recently reveals. How demand else. Unlock some of the supply and capacity that otherwise wouldn't exist so we had really low investment a lot of high tech equipment for about two decades following the tech bust or For two thousand and a lot of people were saying. Oh this week productivity. Oh that's weak. Investment it's something structural globalization. It's inequality it's all these things and there's no problem with a lot of these. Arguments is really hard to pin down. How much of it is is globalization. How much of it. Business model shifts and yet. What we found was when we actually did do aggressive fiscal policy and the us was not the only one to do aggressive policy at least in the outset of the coronavirus response. Did you actually saw that demand. Ride take equipment was historically strong. We broke out of this. And semiconductor manufacturing offside off sides. Call it globally and the us like you see in his. there's been underutilisation of capacity for some two thousand and that just didn't recover on. Its own and now washington is in a position. Where got to do something. We've got to figure out how to actually have the capacity that we want to have and that itself is a conscious choice right and ultimately if you just leave it up to the to the market. It's hard for that. The certain td exist for manufacturing capacity to actually place. I think there's something on a previous episode of yours. they're really. She said that really rung true to me. Which was you actually do. Need some stability on the demand side. You need some stability and scale ability and that requires making sure there's enough purchasing power in the economy and make sure that there are mechanisms for coordination. Because there's a certain amount of certainty that you can get from the government that's really hard to replicate just in the private sector alone. I don't have a lot that that. Because i i only know the semiconductor smyrna hear from you guys and then read from gonda. The one thing that really jumps out to me. Is that if this boom is at the level that it very well could be. It might change the way we talk about economic policy making a very profound way. Because if you actually get unemployment down that rapidly you might be able to tackle issues around decarbonization much easier because there's going to be such gracious demand for workers. You could talk about changing the nature of supply lines. Changing the nature of the way business supply chains in conduct is done and really investing in manufacturing another forms of onshore shoring in a way that i don't think you would have. The political or economic will went on employment is quite high and the recovery is quite slow and everyone is thinking very zero sum. You might actually be able to think much more concretely about how to push the productive frontier the economy in a way coinciding with strong labor as opposed to thinking that in periods of weep labor demand kleber power. So i'm really excited to see. Raleigh goes because i think it's gonna be assad conversations that's gonna change so many things well mike gonda for coming on such a such. You know important. Timely discussion both of you great perspective and We'll have you on Forty years and we'll see We'll see if it turned out to be a real turning point. I totally up. Thank you take care. thanks so much. I didn't see it in the beginning at eight. But i realized something. I mentioned that That's gone to tweet about. Is this a trend break in neoliberalism which interesting he was re tweeting. A tweet from the chamber of commerce were they endorsed a massive stimulus program. And i think that's kind of like what's interesting to like. It really is like bernie sanders on one end right now and the chamber of commerce which historically up until recently i think would have been pretty associated with like the republican party. I think that really sort of is like when sort of captures this idea that it's like something seems to be shifting here right. I think so. Put this so one thing. I've been thinking a lot about. Is it so. The recession from the corona virus in twenty twenty was an unusual recession in so many ways not just because of the policy response but because in some ways it was a government manufactured recession. And what i mean by that is the reason. Everything kind of stopped rose because we had restrictions on where people could go and what they could do and people were scared of leaving their houses as well Independent of the government but the point is it was sort of a policy led recession and so i often wonder if that's what was needed in order to create for you know a more policy focused economic solutions like if this was really the perfect condition for that experiment to happen. I still think like some people would dispute as idea that it was lockdowns rather than the virus itself but i will say a one hundred percent this perception back in a year ago. Basically that this was. Nobody's fault. And i think that was sort of new because we're like in the last crisis You could write the left. You could blame the banks and then you had the tea party and the famous rick santelli rant. It's like your neighbor. Borrowed too much for their homes so there was a lot of blame for it and i think that was probably a contributor to sort of failure to get a lot of political will to really fight the downturn do as very quickly emerged consensus like. This is really no one's fault. No business actually like deserves to go out of business because we have a pandemic don't really deserve to lose their job because of this an as such. I do think that that created some some political space to do exactly what you just said. Yeah i think that's exactly right and the other thing And i think it was scandal. Who touched on this towards the end or maybe it was mike about this sort of demand side of the equation and the idea that this is something that people are. Finally recognizing is actually quite important. You have to have if not robust demand at least a reasonably stable level of demand in order to make a lot of these policies work. And i think that's where the stimulus checks came in last year. And that's where we're probably seeing a pretty big perception shift as well. Yeah and i would just say like a point. I really had not thought of as much until scott pointed out. It's like you him. The potential for actual policy popular policy. I mean cares was popular people late. Getting the one off checks the on the expanded unemployment with powerful. Ppp was powerful. And i think people look at that and unlike say the two thousand nine response which left us our taste people's mouth we like this. We liked the government having stepped in right. Not everyone is but this was generally like a pretty popular thing. The current stimulus is popular. And so you do. Have this potential for self sustaining political. Change if this gather steam such that acts like the stimulus acts like cares actually encourage politicians to do more of this sort of response policy in future downturns and that's how you get potentially the trend break because one stimulus deal is not going to really like break a big trend but a change in the politics around fiscal expansion around industrial policy could actually a break the trend. Yeah well it does. Remind me a lot about So of course. There are a lot of studies about why people why some people in the us didn't like social programs For very long time and one of the things that always cropped up with this idea of relativism so you know this person got five hundred dollars. I haven't got anything from the us government and they're living off a wheelchair fact checks and it's really unfair blah blah blah blah. I think twenty twenty. Just by dint of the fact that the stimulus checks went out to a watt of people. I think that could end up being the right like so many more people now have had personal experience of a social safety net in one form or another no totally right. I it I think it's going to be a fascinating thing i mean. We'll see what the aftermath of this privileges but again if it leaves a positive taste in people's mouths that changes how politicians react and you could really that's how you get your Your trend you're trying to break the end of maybe do you think i know It's always a risk to mark big turning points. But i do think this theme is one that's going to. We're definitely going to be talking about it. Forty years definitely like that's true all right So we've booked an episode for a four decades hence all right this has been another episode of the odd lots podcast. I'm tracy alloway. You can follow me on twitter at tracy alloway. And i'm joe wasn't though you can follow me on twitter at the stalwart follow our guests on twitter scada death. He's at irving swisher on twitter and mike konczal. He's at rory bomb on twitter. Follow our producer. Laura carlson. she's at laura. Carlson followed the bloomberg head of podcast. Francesca levy at francesca today. And checkout all of our podcasts. At bloomberg under the handle and podcasts. Thanks for listening climate change is at the center of everything. Bloomberg green is at the center of solving bags by powerful data and global news room. Bloomberg green is focused on solutions and the greatest opportunity of our generation bloomberg green solutions for a changing climate in partnership with general motors. j. l. l. m. standard chartered visit bloomberg dot com slash green.

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Why Fixing The Gut Is The Key To Healing Chronic Disease with Dr. Todd LePine

The Doctor's Farmacy with Mark Hyman, M.D.

1:11:12 hr | 1 year ago

Why Fixing The Gut Is The Key To Healing Chronic Disease with Dr. Todd LePine

"Coming up on this week's episode of the Doctors Pharmacy most of your immune system is got. Yeah so when you disrupt that that ecosystem that that rainforests inside of you. You are disrupting being the The immune system. Everyone Dr Hyman here. Recently I share with you that I'm really excited to be working out with a trainer for the first time in my life I used to hate going to the gym and I wasn't quite sure what to do when it came to weightlifting but now I'm really enjoying having a great workout routine and I feel stronger than ever felt now. I love the workouts. I'm not always love and feeling sore the next day and that's why I'm excited about a new tool that I found that helped me recover faster. It's a red light. Therapy device called Juve at J.. Lovie Oh lovie now. This red light there. A Super Gentle noninvasive treatment were device with medical grade. Led lights delivers concentrated. 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I WanNa tell you about a company called thrive market. They sell all my favorite snacks ax my condiments cleaning products self care products and pretty much all this stuff my kitchen for discounted prices about twenty five to fifty percent off so I sort of a box doc. So all my favorite stuff to get delivered wherever I am and then I can stock my pantry or my backpack with all my favorite stuff in all of its clean whole food and again is between twenty five to fifty eighty percent off the retail price that you'd find stores. One of my favorite products from thrive market is not advertise organics organic pomegranate powder. It's a naturally sweet and fruity the powder that provides tons of antioxidants. That single scoop like vitamin C.. alagic acid it's great for immune function for immune support and fighting inflammation. It's also amazing. Amazing for your microbiome. It feeds all the good bugs that help reduce inflammation in your gut. And I love using this pomegranate powder in smoothie a put it in with Kale Almond butter water. Coconut milk ice super satisfying it's great morning pick-me-up pomegranates are an amazing superfood. But can be Kinda hard to find. The Organic pomegranate powder outer from Navato. organics makes it super easy really accessible and you can enjoy the power super fruit all year. Long and thrive market. Has it front awesome price. So not only does thrive market offer twenty five to fifty percent off all of my favorite brands but they also give back for every membership purchase. They give the membership to a family in need and they make it easy to find the right membership for you and your family. You can choose from a one month three month or twelve month plan. I go with the twelve month because an only as up to five dollars a month and I save hundreds on my grocery bill throughout the year and right now thrive is offering all doctors pharmacy listeners. A great deal. You'll get up to twenty dollars in shopping credit when you sign up to spend on all your own favorite natural food body and household items anytime you spend more than forty nine dollars you get. Ah Free Carbon neutral shipping. All you have to do is head. Over to thrive market dot com forward slash hyman. That's thrive market dot com forward slash. Hyman I think you're gonNA love them as much as I do. I'm proud to have them as a sponsor and be an investor in their company. All right. Let's get back to the episode. Welcome Doctors Pharmacy. I'm Dr Mark Hyman and that's pharmaceutical. FFA ARE MAC y place conversations that matter and if you struggled with of any chronic illness this is the conversation to listen to. Because it's with one of the leading experts in the world on how to deal with chronic disease. Which is my colleague here at the Ultra Center? Dr Toddler Subpoena Todd. And I go way back in fact todd knew about functional medicine before I even heard about it way back again ranch in one thousand nine hundred nineties. That's right nineteen nineties year old but we look young and he was way ahead of the curve and he still is. He's still really one of the most brilliant brilliant minds and functional medicine he teaches everywhere. He's a certified by the Institute for Functional Medicine in Functional Medicine Obviously He worked with me Kenya ranch for ten ears. And now he's worked here for a decade at the Ultra Wellness Center and collectively. We have literally probably five decades worth of experience and functional medicine in between the two of US seeing so many thousands of patients who struggled for so long with so many issues when they finally get here they find there's a new way of thinking about Disease and it gives them an opportunity to actually get healthy again and we're just so grateful Ella. Have you heard the ultra wellness center and do the work we do. You really help work on some of the most US leading edge concepts in medicine around by detoxification systemic inflammation GI health biology of mood and cognitive orders. He's given lectures all all around the world and H Management Conferences and American College For the Aspen of medicine. He's Todd Miami Integrated Medicine Conference CR- Apollo and he's in the side of reviser board designs for health and consults with diagnostic solutions lab. And he's very active. He's skis kayaks hikes. campsie golf's he loves the BERKSHIRES. And Yeah he's just been extraordinary addition to our center so welcome Dr Todd Levin thank you mark thank you okay so You start off your career Working as a resident at a VA hospital. Yes and that's the best learning learning experience ever. You're pretty much everything everything and you get to do everything exactly even there. Well I have and I had this patient. WHO has problem that? gives a lot of insight into functional medicine which is called the paddock encephalopathy. which in English means that? When in your liver fails you can't detoxify and all your normal metabolic toxins makes you delirious and can even put you in a coma and gives you all these brain in symptoms? So what happened when you treated him with the typical treatment it tells us that is because it's kind of an unusual treatment for a brain problem biting right exactly exactly so yes so the story is I was a resident and I was you know wet. Find Yours and I the patient the V. A. and a lot of patients the awesome have alcohol tobacco abuse and he had liver failure and he came in in a coma with Paddock's by the way just to decide their it used used to be the most common source of liver. Failure was alcohol. Yeah now it's sugar yup right Russia's a big reason for liver transplants. I makes going rationale. Yeah so anyway so he comes in it completely. mccomb you could stick a pin on me would move and So we worked up and I had to learn about what about Because they didn't know what it was and so we treated him and you know I found out that it was related to his liver not being able to detoxify any. He also had a high protein meal intake in the protein gets digested by the GUT. Bacteria in all the blood from the liver goes are all the blood from the GUT has to get filtered through deliver deliver Beagle before it goes into the systemic circulation. So what we did with him as we basically treated him with a nothing by mouth We gave him Antibiotics nobody Alex have believed was neomycin. And you stop feeding the backup. Yeah we just we just missing the top exactly so we just we. We basically cleaned out the food for the bad bacteria in the gut. We sorta gave his gut arrest gave him antibiotics intravenously. Also give them laxatives specifically lactose at the time. If you've actually orally though don't you orally We actually we. I'm trying I might have been or it might have been early. It might be actually. It might have been orally right. It could very the only so we gave him lack and we also actually believe it or not gave him probiotics and within twenty four hours. This guy was in a complete coma completely woke up just like the proverbial Lazarus and it was like it was amazing to me. I look at it and I'm saying that'll wake you up. That'll wake you up and I said you know this guy came you know woke up from the dead and I was like it actually left an indelible impression on my experience as a physician saying there is a huge connection between the gut and the brain and that's has led me on the quest that have gone on For All these years and seeing the connection how our internal ecosystem the microbiome and the food that we eat in the food that we feed the bugs affects our health in good ways or bad ways. Yeah so it's so true and I remember learning about the disease and I was like how come doctors don't connect the dots with the gut and everything gallison goes wrong in the body right because the treatment for this coma that's caused by liver. Failure is essentially giving. Antibiotics aren't absorbed. You kill all the bugs in the gut that are producing these toxins that make them crazy or make them in a coma so and then you give them a lot laxatives to make them poop everything out and that's just kind of a miracle happens right. It was a wake him exactly. And then led you to kind of understand the interconnectedness of every right and then when we see patients all the time a lot of patients come in was to say doc. I've got brain fog. That is low grade. You Know Palma Alma by this Zombie. Zombie here's what you're living day. You're walking around but you're not really there. Your brain is being affected by some of these chemicals and there's a lot of different chemicals that are produced by bacteria. Some of them are pure scene and cadaver rain cadaver in this. You know you don't a lot of cadaver unless record ever right right. Oh sound like terrible things. Pure seen cadaver in those are the toxic released from bad digestion. Right yeah and that will even one of the one of the compounds. It is that we measure now in the office office. Here is Tma Oh trimethyl. Ami Oxides is the same guy type of bacteria bacterial byproduct of metabolism of certain food products. So certain bacteria will eat certain foods and produce these compounds which have psychoactive properties or anti Xia Inflammatory Properties 'cause TMA OH is one of the risk factors actress for heart disease So what are the central ideas of functional medicine. Is you start with the gut. Yeah it's almost what you start with with anybody who's got anything which is kind of a weird the thing because he's like how can you just read everything with one thing but it actually is. A foundation of our health on our microbiome is out of balance. It leads to a whole host of problems right absolutely absolutely and in the big thing that that you know. I don't treat children with autism but the biggest thing I think that is affecting this country is the microbiome that were not inheriting ring from our mothers because what happens so often now is that when mothers go into the hospital. They're getting antibiotics beforehand. Half of them forty percent fifty percent are getting see section so we are destroying breastfeed. Don't breastfeed exactly never give me any kids. Anybody give antibiotics and vaccinations on day one. You know for hepatitis. A B and this microbiome that we have literally inherited from generation to generation. Because it's something that's really passed down from the mothers to the authors autres to the granddaughters is being lost in the law specifically of bifida bacterium in Fantas. It's actually been. I think it was in the New York Times that is talking about this loss of this was one of many beneficial bacteria that we are losing in as part of the human species and it's affecting our whole health so let let's like backup up a little bit and talk about this. Whole thing of the micro because we started with functional medicine? There wasn't the word microbiome but we still focused on normalizing the gut function. We talked about the four our program which is a restoration. Asian program for the GUT and how that can help so many different diseases. But what is the microbiome. Why is it important? What is it do? I mean we thought it was just poop and now now it's like basically the holy grail for figuring out. Yeah so it's it's gold is gold and actually you know in Brown goal is brown fat. Ha Ha so so so down in Boston You know so. The microbiome is the sum total of all the organisms that we have care around inside of us in that also can include a Viruses it can also include fungi and It's not necessarily call it good and bad but it depends on the situation because like for example all of us care around C. Difficile Bacteria C. difficile bacteria. When you take an antibiotic it will wipe out some of the good bacteria and then the bad guys if you will sort of start to over grow Oh and then they can produce toxins and died from it exactly exactly and the treatment of choice for that is if you have really bad case the treatment? The choice is a stool transplant. which is an organ transplant and The interesting thing is at one of the companies that does this is opened by him in Boston. I think you're aware of and they use For a freeze dried Stool and that is one of the Cures literally for A really messed up gut microbiome. Oh by on because if you're doing good pu pills now who pills at crap capsules craps. So I've never heard that. Ah Right and and so so and and what it is is my. I always make analogies because that's how patients understand and things it's sort of like you know the ecosystem of the microbiome inside the body is like a rainforest and at some point. Some people's ecosystems are so disturbed so messed up this like napalm hit your rainforest that's like a corn mono-crop yet and so you what you need to do is you need to repopulate the MIC. And we're GONNA get a little punchy our repopulate the microbiome and you can't do that just with probiotics that we use probiotics museum prebiotics and use those together. We Kulm Sin -biotics and those are oftentimes very helpful but for the really sick people who have things like Refractory C. Diff Stool transplant spun. Is the number one treatment. Yeah then shooting so you've got this whole ecosystem. Bacteria been disturbed by all these reasons. You talked about C.. Sections anybody accused used lack of breastfeeding and so on and our diet also plays a huge role in the growth of good or bad bacteria. So you can feed it certain things and it makes it worse things than it makes it better to talk about that. Yes so so. I always tell patients that when you're eating food you WANNA be choosing your food not just just for you. What you like your your things? That are pleasurable for you but you also want to be feeding the good bacteria we talked earlier about the Ackerman tsia missing affiliate. That's a specific bacteria bacteria that is in the body that you WANNA have on high levels and when we do the testing we can actually determine. Do you have high levels of it or do you have low levels or do you have. No levels are very low levels and there are certain foods which you can incorporate into your diet. Things like pomegranate and Baca and A case the case if I were cranberries cranberries and things like that. These are foods which are basically pre pre prebiotics. And when you incorporate them into your diet you it's like praying miracle grow and garden they they start to flourish. They start to take over and they help balance out the whole ecosystem. Yeah I think is one of the biggest advances in our thinking about probiotics. And that'll fix it. But you know you're forgiving like fifty billion a lot right but you have a true hundred trillion bacteria so it's like a drop in the ocean exactly and one of the begins. I was actually from an experience. I had last year where I developed Colitis so long story but I had been sick for mold and told that story and I had a recurrence Of My gut. Because I had the C. Diff and that was kind of really messed me up and I check my stool and had really levels of this ackerman. SIA which has been linked to autoimmune autoimmune disease billing to poor response to therapy for cancer it's billing two Cardi metabolic disease and diabetes. And I'm like WHOA. This is not good so so I started to research it and created cocktail of cranberry pomegranate. Green Tea Keisha fiber some products other products. And I took it and literally. Within three weeks I went from full blown cloudiness to completely normal perfect. Yeah and it was sort of a wakeup call for me. which was you can't just get probiotics? You've got a feed the whole inner garden and would have liked is certain foods and likes all polyphenols. Yes in the polyphenyls colorful dark rainbow colored chemicals that are or in plant foods. Yarn certain plants have more like the berries and so absolutely the polyphenols are our goal and that to me. I think that's actually probably one of the things that plays his role with the French. Paradox is the polyphenyls that are found in red wine. Yeah I think that's definitely what you're doing is you're actually feeding the Patients love me because the two things things that I always prescribe to my patients chocolate red wine and enter high wind drinking. But I wouldn't as an extra thing right right what I'm just I'm just I'm just right. But the polyphenyls are the the Miracle Food prebiotics for the Gut. Absolutely so tells the story about a patient who had screwed up microbiome microbiome and what you did and how they got better. I've had I mean multiple patients. I mean as for example I had a patient follow up today. Eighteen year. Old with fatty liver disease and prediabetes a picture and Lo and behold I did the Testing for him and His Excellency. Mr Kelly was almost undetectable. Yeah and now fatty liver. Typically you said we used to see that some patients who were drinking alcohol will we're now finding out is that it fatty liver is the thing that is being driven by disruption of the GUT microbiome. So what's happening is when you destroy the mucus. The protective mucous is lining of the gut. Some of those bad bacteria get into the into the into the body into the circulation. They go into liver in causes. Systemic inflammation which in turn causes fatty liver and it was just. I don't know if you saw the recent paper about this about What is termed a non alcoholic fatty livers actually from alcohol produced by gut bacteria? Yeah Yeah So. Some bacterial actually produce alcohol. which in turn poisons the liver meant right for mets? I mean that's like you know you get this bloating food baby. That's actually you're bacteria fermenting food reading and certain foods are more fermentable like starches and sugars. Exactly Yeah we We actually have have seen cases of patients who literally had elevated blood alcohol level Auto Brewery Syndrome from the bacteria in their gut. Yeah and they literally got pulled over and found they had like for drunk driving and it it. Actually the Auto Brewery Syndrome is in. I've had a couple of patients with that and they typically that's usually been attributed to yeast overgrowth But there are also cases specifically with bacteria that can also produce alcohol. May you're basically it's like a brewery and your your your body. Yeah you don't need a budweiser Komo this bud's for you so the So what happened when you have this patient and you. Yeah so so I mean you. Basically you work work on Doing Dietary jeter. When you fix this or you just saw this was just I just I I was just Just had the patient this morning and I it was a very interesting interesting case because the thing that really stood out is that his protective increments means villa was quite law. He's also a Vegan which you know we discuss you? You know what is the best diet. I don't believe that veganism is actually the the best thing I think we're I'm I'm divorced and come from a family of dentists so I always talk to my patients. See that the thing right there. That's doesn't canine tooth and a canine tooth is designed to meet in the chew fish And we have specific enzymes in the body which are pancreas. Pancreatic graddick lasts tastes in prices which are designed to digest protein. So we are. You know like Michael Pollen's said best eat plants e e food real food mostly plants not too much so plant based diet with healthy amounts of fish and lean meat on occasion is really probably the best type of Diet and and I think some of my more most difficult patients are the ones who are strict. Vegans for whatever reason at the colour spiritual or whatever religious Can oftentimes get into really difficult situations. 'cause it's like a catch is in the tail. They don't have the specific nutrients to patch up and and heal the body and all that plant stuff helped the micro bio it does absolutely. It's GonNa help the microbiome but he was he was wo it had almost no Mak- threes nutritionally deficient rice. The unless people are supplementing we get super attritional. Exactly you can have a person like it was just in. It was just in the news. Recently it was a twenty two year old was over in England was living on potato chips white bread and French fries and when it goes on and try it went blind no vitamin A.. When blind so you can be walking and talking and you know you you can be severely malnourished? Yeah because there's a you know this about forty nutrients that your body needs on a regular basis and I liked him also make the analogy to my patients is like gear. Your body is like a house this being built and broken down twenty four seven. You need all those building materials to make that house. You may carpeting carpeting you need. Would you need glass all these materials and if those materials aren't there than the structure may still be standing. But if you don't have glass the wind comes in the rain comes in the snow comes in and then you're GonNa have problems with your with Iran. Traditional Medicine is they. Don't look for those building blocks you don't test for them and that's what's different here. The Ultra Wellness Center. We actually look for these these things we find them. When was the last time a doctor looks for Ackerman? See and some with fatty liver probably never right other than us. Here's some functions. Check their mega threes or check their vitamin EAR. Exactly the right and so those kinds of diagnostics available and help us really think differently about treating disease I mean most doctors understand understand how paddock and set philosophy but most doctors who are treating fatty liver. Don't actually think about what's going on in the gut microbiome or how to treat it. They don't even know how to fix it. Well you know the thing that one of my pet peeve market. I'm sure you've heard this too is that patients will go see the expert and wreck analysists further diabetes in the expert gastroenterologist and they tell the patients to eat anything they want. That is absolutely mean. Food has something to do with our health does. Oh my God what a radical idea. My favorite my favorite was once I was at Kenya's playing basketball at lunch. Because he had these basketball pick up games and there was one of those people there was playing and he was. Is it gastroenterologist. And I said to him you know. Have you ever thought of like how you know food. My impact was happening in the gut. Because you're putting Louie pounds of the stuff through that tube every day you eating my have something to do with why people have digestive symptoms. He's like Gee I never thought of that as seem so interesting. Now that makes a Lotta Sense. I'm like Holy Holy Crap you know but yeah I mean your microbiomes depending on what you feed it how you grow your inner garden depends on what you're eating. And then you can create a nasty garden weeds and toxins and bad stuff and poisonous plants. or You can create a really flourishing rich garden and actually takes care of you absol- title in an also. The other thing that a lot of even physicians are not even aware that most of your immune system is in your gut. Yeah so when you disrupt that ecosystem that that rainforest inside of view you are disrupting the The immune system and we're talking about FECAL transplants. There's a recent study that showed that children with autism who got stool stool. Transplants had a marked improvement up to two years out from just replacing the Gut Microbial Yup. That's pretty powerful. So there is no pharmacologists collages. Autism is like an encephalopathy metabolic and to some degree paddock encyclopedia. I mean that's that's that's to me that's that's the canary in the coal mine in our our environment today with we have one in sixty eight kids having autism now Depending on where you are living in America and around the world is a big big issue issue and while we're finding more and more connection to the the microbiome yeah I mean so sixty percent of immune system is in the gut. Yup essentially is a sewers. That's on the other side of the lining of your gut which is only one cell thick and on the other side is your immune system and there's a breakdown which can come from having c-sections antibiotics acid blocking drugs stress poor diet all that stuff damages got creates this leaky guide. Gluten dairy all those things. Then you get this inflammation so we treat a lot of people autoimmune disease here at the Ultra WanNa Center and often the place we start is the gut so tell us like how how that works and how about some patients you might have had with autoimmune disease and how working on their gut help help him. Yes so I mean. I had one patient in particular who I saw. Who came in was a great story? She came in And she was Having MS as their diagnosis. She also had entered Munc- autoimmune disease multiple sclerosis in she also had infertility and I did a complete workup. Honor honor she had Despite asus had bacterial in east overgrowth also had sensitivity to gluten and had also some not a heavy not big level but at some level of of Mercury in the body. So I worked on a diet worked on You know both prebiotics and probiotics to clean up the got got her completely off of Gluten and low and behold guess what her multiple sclerosis went away. Amazing disappeared are not not to say that you all medals out. Yeah not to say that. All cases of multiple sclerosis are due to that but there are many pathways to multiples. Close are many pathways to Alzheimer's disease or any disease any Aziz exactly because the body will manifest it in only certain inflammatory pathways but and then so ultimately she got off over medications. Sion's her ms to this days in complete remission. She has no symptoms on no meds and as a side effect. She got pregnant brow. That's a good side effect. Yeah and she was happy. That's that's an amazing story and I think people are listening. Functional medicine is a new way of thinking about disease is not based on the label M s yet based on the costs and and you can have one disease that has many causes like ms which can be caused by heavy metals by lime disease by Epstein Barr by the Gut microbiome by gluten in you know like B twelve deficiency right. You can have so many things that are driving this same syndrome right. And the personalization of medicine is what functional medicine is all about. And that's really really what's different here about how we practice medicine at the Ultra WanNA center because we're looking at each person as an individual or creating personalized medicine and personalized health. which is a as a radically new way of thinking and we just lump everybody with the same symptoms in the same categories? But it doesn't tell you anything about the cause and I always say just because you know the name of your disease as you. You know what's wrong with you all right. And that's what we do do very detailed histories here through very advanced diagnostic testing. Look some of these things. Oh absolutely and I think the the enjoyable thing on it. I'm sure that you experience yourself. Is that every patient is unique. Yeah I've never treated to patients the same way from a functional approach now completely different even in the same family. It's everyone is and that's actually the fun part about it. Is The you know. The person comes in with their own. Genetic uniqueness their own you know Personality make up their own story. All of these things that you can paint the picture of where were they. When got sick where are they now? And what are the things that you know That we can remove the doctor house right detect metal detectors exactly in. And you know I think one of the most important things that that Always tell people are. Training in medicine is to listen to the patient. Yeah they'll tell you what's wrong absolutely win and ways and and sometimes I just have to sort of bite my my mouth as he does interrupt patients or what about this. What about that? I just sort of let patients since talk more and I just sorta listen and then I'll ask the questions later and when you really do that and let the patients tell their story in their own way in their own terms and get that out you really find out all of the little details and you can't play house and play detected charter piece. The piece of the puzzle together. Yeah you know we we In Regular Madison listen. We are trained to create an exclusive history. In other words. Someone comes in with a symptom. Let's say they have heartburn or reflects chest pain we don't want to know anything else about got them except about that all these about that. We don't know if they have a rash. Are there fingernails cracked eggs is there. But it's like don't talk to Amira any of that because that's not relevant and in functional medicine all of it's relevant because it's a clue that could give you a clue to what's actually happening for that patient nations and that's what's so beautiful about this process you know. I think I used to work in the emergency room. I think you did too is boring boring because I'm like okay. It's the heart attack treatment. It's the asthma treatment. It's a kidney stones protocol. It's like it's like us. Look at the nurse okay. They don't they know what the order are. They know what to do to write it down and it's like it's like wrote and boring. It's IT'S A. It's a formula like a recipe right in functional medicine. There is no recipe actually having a think every time you see a patient right right and In being trained in traditional medicine and also in a functional medicine approach is definitely. You know when you're having a heart attack you know I wanna from belichick absolutely I would surge Iraq I want. I want you to follow the protocol that has been shown to work but for chronic conditions. You know acute care medicine. which is basically the scalpel or the prescription? Pat Are probably the more toxic things that you can have a lot of what I see in in in in my patients here is I after Janika imperfect all right which which basically doctor that basically means the doctor did it right. So the the patient comes in and they're on a whole laundry list of medications and these are interacting you know the Proton on pump inhibitors are causing house. Can the acid blockers they're they're causing calcium deficiency mineral deficiency B twelve deficiency. So there's there's these. These drugs have their risk benefit and the less drug use in medicine. The better off the patience. Yeah it's hard because that's what we know how to do what we're we're trying to do yes like we don't have people with food as medicine. We don't know how to restore gut from a messed up gut to a healthy gut. And that's really what we do in functional medicine and I also important thing that it's important for physicians out there who are new to functional mess and also for patients is to realize these things don't happen overnight it can take time but usually sometimes you. You can see a difference in in days to weeks. Sometimes it could take months and sometimes it takes years. It depends depends on what's going on so true I mean I is. It's like it's almost miraculous and you go like it's hard to believe. Remember when I first started practicing I was like Oh okay do these things take this. Eat this and then they'd call back a few weeks later. You know months later on Mike how you doing. I'm I'm all better Mike. What better from that because it was? It was such a contradiction to everything I learned but then I started to trust it and I started to expect it and I just just remember this one patient. She had PSORIATIC arthritis. which is a horrible condition? Where you're you've got psoriasis? But your joints are being deformed insz destroyed. You're in pain all the time. But she had a bunch of other stuff which quote was unrelated. She had depression. She had insomnia. She was overweight. She had terrible reflux heartburn and she was having bloating and and CBO irritable bowel and. I'm like okay. Well let's see she's inflamed. Everything is she's got is inflamed. The weight of flame depressions and inflammation in the brain. Her Gut symptoms are about inflammation in the gut. Everything's related to inflammation so what why don't we just start simple and clear out things that are causing potential inflammation so we got rid of gluten daring to die and sugar and starch processed food. We got her Gut cleaned up. I gave her an antibiotic in any fungal and a little gut program a couple of nutrients to help her fights him some inflammation that she was suffering from and six weeks later she came back. Her Psoriasis Goner. Thrice was gone. Her reflects an era vows. Goner Depression was gone. She lost twenty pounds on my and she got off where medications even the one that was costing fifty grand a year to suppress your immune system from this rises and it seems like a you know. Seems like a miracle but it really isn't when you follow this methodology and as we've been doing here for decades practicing functional medicine the Berkshire in the middle of our. Yeah it's pretty amazing. Well it's really interesting because most of the patients who have psoriasis are gonNA see dermatologists and most are metallised. Do not have a clue about the microbiome nor they test you thinking about it right and then if they get psoriasis and they developed PSORIATIC arthritis which is arthritis in addition to the skin condition. Because I always tell. Patients is the skin is contiguous with the GUT. So if I draw a line on the skin and I keep drawing a line and go down my tongue and I go into my softest down on my stomach and intestine. I'm still in the same surface. Yeah so oftentimes you know this mark mark. That's true I thought of that. Yeah it's kind of a cool thought. That's how explanations so the skin is contiguous with the gut incidental dermal tissue and when their skin issues think gut. It's really a tube to outside your body. You're yes it's true. I mean when I'm patient. PSORIASIS ECZEMA Acne Rosa. I treat their gut yup and I don't put stuff all over their face or on their body exactly suppress the inflammation. I get rid of that and it's like a it's really a miracle is dermatology is not something that I'm an expert in although I was trained as a family doctrine. Dermatology apology. But I feel like it's we get the most amazing results just for something as simple as fixing the guide and changing the Diet absolutely exactly. Yeah the body's is is interconnected complex self-healing Organism were. That's the big thing is. I often ask patients I mean. Do you think you're going to get better. And and if I have a patient who thinks they're going to get better than together. We're going to get better. But if I have patient doesn't think they're going to get better than I try to get them to change their mindset because somebody even though he comes to me they really almost believe. I'm not going to get better. Well that's what they've been taught exact live with us the executive to manage your disease and I wanna marriage and the and the body's ability to self heal is amazing as you as you know as markets really amazing There's an intelligence agents in the body that we have you know as much as we know about the body. There's a lot more that we don't know More I practiced medicine. I think the more humble I become executive ever how little I know. It's complex it is. It's really really complex. But but there's so much that we can do for patients that you know they've gone to you. Know the Mayo Oakland. They've gone to mass general. They gone to you know X Y and Z everywhere else. And the you know as you say the resort medicine come here for last resort. I mean I literally. He just walked from a my office here. After seeing a patient who went to the Mayo Clinic who had chronic dizziness chronic constipation fatigue insomnia all these different symptoms that ah they couldn't find quote anything wrong with him and I'm like well I know what's wrong with you. You got this this and this and this based on looking at it through the Functional Medicine Lens Yeah Well and the the other thing is is you know I think I think it was Sid Baker who made the analogy or maybe it was Jeff Land. Is that you know if you have a diamond. It's a it's a dark street near you. Lose your dime over there in the street lights over here and you're looking under the streetlight. Which is where you're testing? So most of the testing's basically looking where the dime isn't. Yeah all right so the testing that we do here which is a traditional metabolic toxic. Genomic testing is is spreading out the searchlight to find that absolutely. That's such a key point because you go to the doctor and they say well we've tested everything and all your results are normal And the implication is it's all in your head but I would say I don't agree with that because you know other things are true when the patients crazy or the doctors missing something and I'm going to bet on the doctors missing something. Yeah because when we start to look we all sorts of stuff in places that nobody's looked before because they're looking under the street lamp instead of wax where the problem really exactly. Yes exactly right. Would you alluded to before was really important. which is that functional? Medicine is about getting rid of the things that impair health and putting the things that helped the body thrive and then the body can take over and this amazing intelligence can repair and heal from all sorts of things are totally. Yeah and that's what we do. So what do you know one of the complaints. We see a lot is fatigue. Not Everybody's tired and and In Functional Medicine we talk a lot about something called the mighty conju which you're really an expert in and it's something that is really the one of the keys to solving many problems and puzzles in chronic disease. Whether it's Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or diabetes diabetes or Agassi fatigue issues so forth FIBROMYALGIA. Tell us about what are these Mitochondria. How do we look at them? And in what do we do about it. Okay so for for those who don't know about my to Conrail I it really. It's it's another area of mind that is is really a fascinating sort of interest of mine. So armee Qendra are actually ancient bacteria Z.. poop bacteria you're in the same track absolute right so so well one track mind right and I'll never forget I went to uh-huh lecture by Jeff Land and he was talking about how antibiotics which are designed to kill bacteria can oftentimes effect might o'connor because Armata counter which of the power plants have. Our bodies are actually way back. When were ancient bacteria that became engulfed ourselves in our now the power plants and they have different? DNA If totally totally different day in fact the Lynn Margulis who was murdered? Carl Sagan I had the opportunity to meet her and have lunch with her. And Yeah It was it was amazing for those. She's an icon in the world of biology. Yes I describe this whole phenomena. Yes exactly so she is right there in the sixties not everyone was studying the the nuclear DNA which is the double helix DNA. And she's she meant observation. There's DNA in the cell in a circular form. And she goes. What does that mean? We're that come from so she's and she was actually What do you call a protest? She studied small Ancient Bacteria and she realized realized that DNA reminded her of the ancient Bacteria and then she came up to the apotheosis that eukaryotic cells which the cells that we have actually way back when those those little bacteria came sort of created a symbiotic relationship. Where you scratch my back? I'll scratch your back. Yeah and that's really. You know how we have a medical Andrea and Monte conner are so important in this I always tell patients is that you take cyanide. You'll die in a matter of minutes. The reason for that is cyanide. Flip the switch on your monarch Andrea earns him off turns out that yeah basically. That's what happens when you die. You have no energy anymore. It's out out and lights are out and yet. There's varying forms of lights out with might have conjured really common whether it's autism or finding now Alzheimer's Parkinson's right and the interesting thing about it is. There's a there's a thing called the bottleneck theory of Motoko Andrew. which is that before? You're gone so mighty controversial these little tiny things inside your cells or can be hundreds of thousands of them and they basically take oxygen that you breathe and the food that you eat and they burn them like an engine and outside and outcomes energy which is what runs your body audie in the form of. At delete so. That's what has to happen every day. Every minute for you to run every chemical reaction your body to run everything. You're doing everything. And when that process gets bunged up you get get sick exactly That's very well put exactly you get especially the highly metabolic the tissues so things like the brain things are heart are the highly dense motto Qendra Andrea and then the other thing that which is is new on the medical world is Brown fat. So Brown fat is a highly packed with minor. Kondracke when you look at under a microscope interscope it. Actually Looks Brown and Brown fat type of fat that we have the generates heat an order activate our Brown fat. We need to be cold. And how many people nowadays ever get really cold because we always like that thermostat right at seventy degrees the ice bath every day. Yeah so right. So if the temperature goes to seventy one we turn we turn on. The air. Conditioning goes below. We turn on the heat right. We give them this thermonuclear Zone and we never actually activate Dr Brown fat and Activating Brown fat by being a cold in fact this past weekend. I was at a Mega Institute and I actually camped out and it's a long story but I brought my tent and in my tent didn't have the polls to it so I had to sleep on the ground on my in my sleeping bag and forcing the CPA was warm sleeping bag. But I got cold at night but guess what I slept rate rate. Yeah I slept grace. Two of the Best I've had in years was when I went Backcountry skewing daughter last spring and we literally climbed six miles six hours straight up to this your burke which was literally six feet under the snow to dig it out and I set my seat back there. It was freezing and is let the best Iceland ever. Yes you're like a semi hibernation. Actually actually I actually bought something called a chilly pad. Yeah which is essentially a cooling past you put on your mattress. I can turn down sixty three degrees at night because my wife likes it. Hi I like it cold. I think she I think she did a little podcast about that. My wife was a comedian. You can look at at my mia L. Locks on instagram. And you can watch that funny spoof on how she has to wear a winter coat to bed which is not quite true but a a yeah yes yes Andrea and you know. How do we test from conduct? You know when you go to most doctors. Most doctors don't even remember reminded Andrea in their in their training. Nor do they ever test for so we test for ganic acids for You can also urine tests urine tests relatively easy to do and you can also do genetic addict testing for Maddock Andrea There are some labs out there. Accordion was one of the labs it. we used to use but there are no longer around. There's another one called gene savvy. It does a testing for Monday cadre and when you get an inherited Monica Seles should. That's where you know maybe seeing some zero. Yeah that's that's much more serious but you can also have a lot. Lot of acquired mikan drill issues in the good news is that we can heal or contra when we actually go through appears before he messes them up when messes them up and what mess him up will excess of oxidative stress will do it so his shins. Yeah Yeah so Xm Free radicals oxidative stress. Because you're your your mitochondria is like a fireplace. Throw logs into your fireplace which is food and you give off sparks in you throw too much logs in the fireplace. You get too much sparks and get too much Karadzic. Who many calories bad calories bad calories or starch and too many bad calories not compensated by enough dietary antioxidants is another potential source worse? Antibiotics are huge. Yeah especially the flocks INS. I mean that's that's a whole topic under a unto itself as being flocks which. I'm sure you've seen patients with with that Because they definitely are Anna in a bacteriocidal. Antibiotics are definitely a poisonous to Monica and statin medications. You know the ones that the muscle also liking that people get is because there might connor getting injuries. So the the cardiologists handed out like Pez. Candy right mark. Yeah it should be should be in the issue it should be in the water. It was just you know they wanted to sell it at McDonalds. Yeah right have on with your big Mac exactly. Yeah but they they are and they do cause muscle damage and and some people are more susceptible to it absolutely and and there's genetic variations in how people respond statins and that's probably has to do their McConnell ration- but it's it's for sure so so so toxins also like heavy metals and pesticides or poisonous too much sugar and starch calories oxidative stress inflammation. I mean as you have the viral flu. Oh you feel achey and tired and sore. Because you're cadre getting nuked Yup right nutritional deficiencies right. We had all sorts of nutrients carnitine co Q.. Ten B B-vitamins all play a big role in the Mitochondria function. So and and of a festival choline for the members of the Medical Andrea The other thing that's also really important and as you're well aware that is the concept of doing fasting periodically and I find this actually quite fascinating because a lot of religions have fasting as as part of their their religious belief system. And when you actually look at that giving your gut a time period of rest and when you go through these periods of of of fasting your body starts eating up the badminton cadre. That's autophagy. We call that the self the bodies eating itself so garbage truck coming cleaning up all the ways from your cell renew and repair and regenerate exactly and actually get younger and Intermittent fasting can do amazing amazing things for the body. And what is that. That's like when you eat between a win. Yeah there's there's multiple ways to do that you can eat like you know sixty hours without food eternal eight hour window or Maybe on the weekends just have water or juice fast or something like that. There's different ways of doing that But when you cut back on your calories dramatically and you do that for an extended period of time your body it goes into what's called Ketosis as you as you well know and then your body starts to generate Increased antioxidant enzyme systems and it also starts to clean up and sweep pulse with the house gets rid of all using snacking and eating all the way till bad and waking up and breakfast. That's the worst thing no well. It's great unless you're unless you unless you're like a teenager in your like your metabolism is gone wild. You need to be fed growing all the time but three meals a day was. Snacks is probably not the best thing. I mean. That's an important thing because you know a lot of people have Mike Konczal issues and I personally had severe medical issues because I get chronic fatigue syndrome for mercury and my muscle enzymes went way up and I had severe muscle aches and fatigue and it was it was really working on my maddock Andrea by getting rid of the metals and fixing my gut and giving myself a lot of mighty conjul nutrients. That really helped me recover from that. Yeah Yeah and The I mean they're actually working on some of the Nutrients like the Insurance that increase the the NASD plus In the body. Or even intravenous in a D which is another it's for IV therapy has been shown to be quite helpful for Lorraine for issue of the brain. Oh yeah sorters up. Yeah yeah very very powerful enough say even for people are flocks. That's actually one one of the treatments. Yeah so you're telling you about is providing a lot of the nutrients so one you have to stop doing on the bad things that caused to be a problem in to have to provide the basic support album work better. So whether it's intermittent fasting or cower restriction prepares of timer days of fasting whether these nutrients like any D. which you can now take orally coq. Ten at these are the kinds of things we look at it and functional medicine and Ultra Mona Center. We can test for these things we can see what's not working and unless you look what's going on and that's really the beauty of this approach. We might not see quoted disease but we might see a dysfunction and I've had patients with Parkinson's disease who paid one now. I've had ten years of Parkinson's and he's doing doing amazing and hasn't progressed. In fact better yeah where he was working on all these things. Yeah Parkinson's is tough. Depends where you catch them but the the big thing is is to try to arrest the progression and try to reverse it if you can. Yeah and it's a lot of it is a mighty conjul disease. We know well coq ten and others. Things help Parkinson's and it's it's it's actually a mighty contra problem many diseases also the interesting is they're also finding a direct connection with the gut. microbiome Parkinson's Interestingly there were awesome this impatience A charity He had some patients who had C.. Difficile colitis the patient also had Parkinson's got a stool transplant for their C diff. Colitis I guess what the Parkas has got better. Yes actually remember reading a study that people who accustom patient have a three hundred percent increase. Risk ECON spacious spacious. Enough benign exactly. Yeah I had a guy today who was like happening like every three or four days of Mike. That's not normally no for me. I go with you and I'm like no. You should go twice a day twice a day. What are you smoking like? I think that is is not what people really think of as normal but it it really is right and I think it ah connects the dots. The Gut immune system might a con. It's all one system everybody's connected everything else. It's sort of like you know the knee bones connected vibe on all that. But it's actually true in the body and we treat people all these. Silos of all these specialties. Yes and unfortunately doesn't help them get the issues that can really help them get better. Yeah and I I think I think the other the other thing. That's also I think really important. I've learned this as I as you know the the more experienced I get. I always go into each patient with colleagues then mind very openminded. I don't really listen. And I don't have any preconceived notions of what's going on and if just you know listen to them make notes and then connect the dots and that way there's no preconceived I think I think you have this right. I think you have that you can even do that in functional medicine like I I think you have leaky gutter. I think you have gluten. Guess what let's get a look somewhere else. Maybe you know. Maybe you've ticked by you. Know maybe you have a pesticide poisoning. Exposure Maybe your life glyphosate toxin. I mean there's all different ways you can go down And it's it does require you know playing detective I I remember. I remember had a patient who grew up in the Bronx and was very poor and she was an apartment complex where cockroaches the extreme. Yeah for crawling all over to her and she hated pests so she moved to the suburbs and should have the exterminator. Come every month to spray inside and outside her house and she she had an entire barrel like a fifty gallon barrel of chlordane which is now banned in this country and was exposed to this over an over and over and she got Parkinson's at fifty years old. Yeah and we helped her by detoxifying her by working on her mighty Andrea and doing things we talked about. It's interesting you said because I remember distinctly remember. Remember reading an article that was looking at a Japanese men and they had a higher incidence of Parkinson's as they ate more fruits and vegetables so the logical conclusions eat fruits and vegetables. Get Parkinson's Ron Pesticides. Exactly pesticide laden fruits and vegetables. I mean farmers are one of the worst farm. Workers will have exposed to besides the highest rates of Parkinson. And they are we talking about the urbicide round up the the with glyphosate and the effects ex- on the GUT microbiome. That's another big one. That's that's that that to me is is probably one of the The big elephants in the room is true. Modern Modern Day society life. I mean we actually test for life is attested. I don't probably have any because I e organic and I don't avoid pesticides and I'm really careful what I eat but the truth is I travel half the time so I don't always have control right. He's at and I check my ear and I was like holy crap. I'm probably in the fiftieth percentile for life is eight. I thought it'd be like the tenth percentile. How Ya and I like? This is not good yes exactly and and the other thing. That's it's been touted as the that. GLYPHOSATE is safe. Because it doesn't affect any of the biochemical pathways in the body will lo and behold it actually affects the chicane pathway which is actually how the bacteria have their metabolism. So when you're using glyphosate you're actually messing up the metabolic pathways of bacteria especially gut. Bacteria also affects glutathione or other things generational effects. Oh yeah yeah so. That's one of the things we do. Here's here's well. We deal with a lot with with understanding how toxins affect the body how to help the body detoxify and and doing away which actually creates profound results. Yeah Yeah I'm you know what what is what are the biggest things you think about when you think about toxins and how do we. How do we sort of look at those in our practice in? What do we we do and see? Well it's in there I I was actually given talks on Toxins with God Russell. Walter cranium. He is he's a big big died yes he died he died. Yeah and So we talk together about this Seminal article I believe it was in science was called the exposal which is the sum total of all the different toxins that we get exposed to everything. It's our died strasser microbiome. All those are exactly and and to some degree you know There is a little bit of survival of the fitness of people who can detoxify. Well wills actually survive in modern society. It better when it's sort of like the cockroaches that are resistant to D D. I mean the. It's not me I'm susceptible so so so the toxins that were exposed to probably the biggest sources is pharmaceutical industry. I consider pharmaceuticals as toxins. Yes they're they're they're toxins but just like You know if you know what to give a rat poison at the right dose of the right thing makes the poison the poison exactly and what the the big dirty secret is that these chemicals get pete out and pooped out and they go into the water systems in no water. Systems are actually actually checking for some of these chemicals hormones antibiotics pharmaceuticals in study and in I believe without question that the pharmaceuticals suited goals which are everywhere when you look you know. People are taking handfuls of Pharmaceuticals these are getting into the water system. I believe they're actually probably affecting us in in in some white so having clean water clean food or some of the ways that which we can you know help with our exposure to toxins Cinzia on the environmental working group. Air Executive Working Group has been resources source. They have all listen how to avoid toxin your seafood in your meat in your vegetables and your household also cleaning products in your personal care products great resource e W E. WG exactly yeah and and and just being aware of it Is is is is important and I talked to earlier jokingly about red wine will the dirty secret about you know a Californian on and all the the United States is they're they're filled with pesticides fungicides. It's an gripe is eight and arsenic. Yeah so you you know if you're GONNA have Y.. You WanNa make sure it's organic or from Europe because they don't allow the same degree that you have in the states. I saw this guy had had a wine filter the other day like a water filter was like wow. That's I don't know intellectually filter all that so I don't know we'll try it but but and again you know You know they've shown that you know Cheerios and all these food products. And all I have glyphosate in them. Yeah even some of the things that are quote unquote organic can find glyphosate in them. So I just read that. The impossible impossible burger. which is this plant based healthy quote? Soy Burger I which is GMO. Soy has eleven times the life of saint levels of the beyond on meet which is made from pea protein because soybeans are sprayed with glyphosate. While that's striking. Yeah you know trying to some healthy and then you're gonNA poisoning yourself. GOPHERS eight biting us. Soy Burger. Right right yeah and and I think that you know people people all right people are trying to be held but sometimes they're the they're making the wrong. I'm Joyce or sort of this guy who thought you know. Well you know Being a vegetarian. Good and eating soya's good so the guy was eating soy burgers Tofu burgers. There's and all the other sorts of the guy literally grew breasts. He was starting to have Gynaecomastia from all the estrogen effect of the of. It's mostly the process. Soy Yeah because the whole soy traditionally. If you're eating it and reasonable mounts won't do right right right. Yeah it was all the process exactly highly processed exactly which we think is going to health food like a Tofu. Oh I I mean a Turkey soy thing or a or Soy Bacon or Sky Burger Frankenfoods. Yeah Franken all highly process. It's not the whole food plant based Diet you know exactly is so the minute you're going back to every minute. I was just remembering a patient. I had heart failure now. We think of heart failure is this. You know a one way street. You know you get it gets worse. You try to manage it a lot of medication. But it turns out that it's conjul problem and you can actually treat it with mighty cadre nutrients and I recently had a guy was a healthy ish. Seventy year old guy. We've all heart failure. And he had a number of things going on with him. We treated they were underlying inflammation but I came a bunch of support for his medical bows and Carnitine and co Q.. Ten and magnesium a bunch of stuff and his injection fraction which is the strength of which you can pump blood out of your heart. What from thirty percent which is a few steps away from a heart failure to over fifty percent which is pretty much normal? Yeah yeah which is pretty amazing when you see that and it's again not something traditional cardiologists will let me see your Mitochondria. Like they don't know how to think about it or tested or look at it. Yeah exactly yeah might. Yeah and obviously you know your heart doesn't rest right. Even when you're sleeping your heart's pumping you hope so might have really important for for the heart and absolutely you can there are. It does Cases of patients having Improvements of heart failure and reversal of heart failure with Monica Andrew Nutrition support. I have many of those. That's pretty amazing. So one of the things that We do also here at the ultra WANNA centers intravenous nutrition and you talk about. Why that's important what it does does and who is good for well sure? There's you know intravenous. Nutrition is is a catch all term for giving nutrients through the veins in sort of bypassing the got for absorption and there are some patients that for whatever reason they may not be absorbing their nutrients as well so some of the things that we use here I would include things like the Myers. Cocktail Tale We might also use what's that b-vitamins magnesium And you know b-vitamins are you know very very ill bruce I ames is the one who brought my attention to the vitamins. Because a lot of people have sub clinical genetic deficiencies were. They need higher levels of b-vitamins settlements So giving vitamins actually supports Monday. conroe function you know when you give these b-vitamins and may cesium You can boost the effect Toco Andrea Through the augmented a facts and then glued file. intravenously is also a fantastic tool IV Vitamin C. We use that that for a host of different things and mention Ibni D. V. D.. Yeah that that I think is actually. It's really amazing stuff is really really cool. and It's it's so there are patients who do need. I say that everybody walked through the door needs IV but if you want to Support and people Lavar. sicker people have more unexplained fatigue indefinitely. do that There was a study with IV Vitamin C.. And sepsis picture. This is a really interesting thing. So I be vitamin C We use it here For patients who have potential cancer infection. Mike Infections uh-huh Epstein Barr virus etc flu whenever and so at high levels vitamin CS. Actually a pro oxidant is not actually antioxidants. Actually a pro. The accident and the interesting thing is that they've been some studies out now that if you go into a hospital and you have septic shock your mortality Which is normally about forty percent of people die in the hospital if you give them either vitamin C along with I think steroids in a little bit Afyon? The mortality went from forty percent to nine. In percents wow so. It's a four fold decrease in death. That's unbelievable yeah and there's no drug that can do that exactly. Yeah Yeah so you go from like ten percent the Or forty percent download less than ten percent mortality. Pretty amazing it is pretty awful stuff and it's cheap. Yeah very cheap. So you're GONNA see a Lotta researcher that with big Pharma because they don't make money on it it's true it's it's it's. There's a gap in research. A lot of things we do no work clinically. We've all had experience with for decades doesn't get the funding because the NIH funding it and neither is drug companies. So we're kind of stuck having look smaller studies as small groups of people are studying it. So we're we're doing all these things as we talked about here at the Ultra WanNa Center. It's a really unique practice. We have four physicians too. Physicians Assistance For nutritionist. It's a whole bunch of nurses and were taking care of people Team approach where people come in and they get this full evaluation where the medical detectives we find problems. The most people have struggled to solve for decades and often break quickly. We know what to do and and we support them over time with coaching and with encouragement and file visits and it's really a pretty unique center here at the Ultra WanNa Center and collectively. We've had probably sixty years years of collective experience in practicing functional medicine. which is I think? Pretty unique in the world. We're getting older by your skin smarter. And we've all we're personally had challenges with our health and we use this model to really help recover and I remember when I was really sick. You and Dr Bone came over to my house and you help me think through what was going on at. My brain wasn't working because my gut wasn't working and It's it's so rewarding to see these patients you had. You had a recent case that you want to share about Alzheimer's right. A A fantastic case was a patient. Why saw who came down from up north in Canada and was given a diagnosis of having Alzheimer's and was pretty much sold you? Now you know. Get your fears in order. Get Your nor did exactly does not much we can do for you So he came down. The treatment for Alzheimer's is a lawyer. Is Ah Rabbi raised right So patient came down and I saw her with her husband. And did a a complete work and as you go through some of the writings of Dale Bredesen's and also functionalism approach is that ultra mind. Solution was really good. Then ultra my ass has. That wasn't that wasn't about Alzheimer's but it was cases brain right. Yeah so so. I love the analogy that by The the analogy of a Alzheimer's like roof at thirty two holes in it. And you know you're not GonNa fix it just you know doing one whole so. I A full work up on the patient and the other thing which most doctors and dentists aren't aware is the rule of the oral bacteria. Yeah there's actually some really interesting studies that have when you have bad bacteria in your mouth and Ginger Vitus perignon disease promoters Jinja. Vallis is highly caused stomach inflammation which in turn affects the Brain Causes Brain Inflammation and brain deterioration over time so her workup included checking for heavy metals checking for herpes viruses because herpes simplex is also associated with With ad add checking for the April four gene type predisposes you but doesn't predestined. Yeah exactly you just because you have a dozen mean you're GonNa get it but you're one of those people the more robust immune response so you have more inflammation which is great on a short term. Our long-term basis you don't want chronic inflammation. So she had a whole bunch of things she had some mercury. She has some oral bacteria. She has some gut bacteria. She had. Some gluten issues. She had a herpes simplex. April four genotype so I sort of worked on all of those the things we also changed your Diet and within a matter of months her husband said I have my wife back. Wow yeah she was now able to converse converse to talk. She can drive by herself now. You literally stopped and reverse the effects Alzheimer's right exactly. Yeah it was pretty pretty. What do do you think it was of all those things that you did or was it all the whole it was all the holes exactly in and we you know we talked about route? 'cause it's actually root causes. I think there's often sometimes there's one in big one but then there's all these other things that are supporting that also play a role so I just addressed all of them like a like a checklist. Fashion you know. Essentially you say that because you know traditional medicine is there's sort of the joke about neurologist diagnose scenarios you know here's what you got nothing to do we'll see later and I think it's certainly the approach now with Alzheimer's because we spend billions of dollars on hundreds and hundreds of studies with nothing to show for it is because we're looking down the wrong path because we've been we've been looking at amyloid plaques. which are a hallmark of actual inflammation slash infection in the brain just like cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease level does not cause heart disease inflammation causes heart? Disease Cholesterol's a bystander. Yes trying to repair that inflammatory process US right. So so Beta amyloid in the brain is an accident. Antimicrobial Pepe tells you that the body is trying to fight off some type of infection. BE AT ASPIRA. Keep from lyme disease disease syphilis a virus or fungi. Yeah so that's so yeah Anita amyloid we've been saying well if we get rid of the Beta I and find a drug to remove him. The wrong thinking is the problem and in functional medicine. Here told YOU WANNA center. We do a different kind of thinking. which is what are the treatable things that we can find signed? That could help patients health. Get better in general and that also helps the brain better so it's not to say that we can come in here and Carroll case Alzheimer's timers SL true but we can certainly especially if you're far advanced but we can certainly. If we get early enough we can help to slow down and maybe even reverse the effects by using this approach absolutely not only have you found this. I found this and dozens and dozens of other doctors. Doing this approach across the country have done this and yet it's still in the outside of healthcare. We know it's also really interesting as I'm seeing more and more doctors and nurses who are in mainstream medicine coming to see me because they're like some of the best hospitals best centers because they can't get help in their system for sure. A lot of our patients are health. Ashley Yeah and and and I think you know when a physician has either themselves or close family member member or spouse or whatever get a condition. You're you're putting your head against the wall with a the mainstream approach. That's where you start. You know you sort of fall into functional presence. This does not work in. I gotta I gotTa find more put more tools my tool bag. Yeah well that's the thing here. They'll join us and we have a lot of tools. We have a different way of thinking. We work as a team and we doing for a long time. So if you're listening and you suffer with some chronic thing that hasn't gotten better or have any one of those diseases or conditions we talked about. We're pretty much anything. Yeah we we can really make a difference in helping people. Finally were caused medical detectives and help people create a pathway. Swayed that gets them back to health. And that's really the goal here. Yeah and the other thing is I so many practices. Have what I call protocols and protocols are sort of like you do the same thing over and over for everyone and we don't really have protocols here. We have certain things that we do. Use a lot of nations roach. We have been approached. But we don't have a rubber stamp. You know you're not gonNA come into the ultra the senate. Everybody gets the same treatment at doesn't work right not exactly because it's different for everybody is ours is very much personalized in proactive and in an A deep dive into nutritional biochemical genetic toxic Biology as you mentioned with that case with Ms That's one one case with Ms. Another case might be different thing thinking what you saw that patient Alzheimer's someone else with Alzheimer's need very different approaches athlete. So that's really the beauty the of functional medicine and you are one of the pioneers you. You are leader. And it's so great to have culture WANNA senator. Todd thank you for joining us on the Doctors Pharmacy Art. Thanks mark enjoyed it. So if you've heard anything that picture and just you know anybody who suffering or you're suffering. You can find out more about our center at the Ultra Wellness Center Dot Com has just ultra wellness center dot com And if you love this podcast we love to hear from you again. Leave a comment Share with your friends and family on social media and Subscriber every at your podcast. And we'll see you next week on the Doctor Pharmacy Mark. One is Dr Mark Hyman so two quick digs number one. Thanks so much for listening to this week's podcast. It really means a lot to make. If you'll love the podcast. I really appreciate you sharing with your friends and family second. I WanNa tell you about a brand new newsletter. I started called marks picks every week. I'M GONNA send out a list of a few things that I've I've been using. Take my own health. The next level is can be books. PODCASTS research that I found supplement recommendations recipes or even gadgets. I use a few of those. And if you'd like to get access to this free weekly list all you have to do is visit Dr Hyman dot com for slash picks. That's Dr Hyman. I'm in dot com for slash picks. Only email you once a week. I promise I'll never send you anything else. Besides my own recommendations so just go to Dr Hyman DOT DOT COM for sized picks that's PIC KS designer free. Today I everyone I hope you enjoyed this week's episode just a reminder that this podcast ask for educational purposes only this podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for helping your journey seek out a qualified medical practitioner if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner or you can visit IFM dot o._R._G.. And search they're fine a practitioner database. It's important that you have someone in your corner who's trained. WHO's a licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes especially when it comes to your health?

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Biden Said Shots, Make It A Double

What A Day

21:21 min | 2 weeks ago

Biden Said Shots, Make It A Double

"It's much twenty six. I'm he'll hughes. And i get interested in this. Is what the podcast. No one is advised to listen to while operating a boat in the suez canal. Yeah for sure you know maybe just put on something more chill like smooth jazz or maybe just some both directions against yeah but whatever you do do not fall asleep on today. Show a tense overnight. Standoff in los angeles between protesters and police over the clean out of a homeless encampment some headlines but first the latest we will buy my one hundred day in office have administered two hundred million shots people's arms so that was president biden yesterday who doubled his original vaccine target during the first press conference of his presidency. He touched on a lot of different things during questions and answers that went over an hour from voting rights to the f. word used most often The filibuster so let's start with that bit about vaccines because it sounds like a huge success. But what should people know especially if they're still waiting in line here's a first biden has been really careful with his promises about normality vaccines etc. And this was another example rate His original goal of one hundred million shots one hundred days super super catchy but it was actually selling with the administration wanted and truly needed to do doing the math. Now the cdc says that about one hundred thirty three million shots or in people's arms so far we're just over halfway into biden's first one hundred days which basically means we were already on track to hit two hundred million so this was another example biden kind of trying not to over promise anything until it becomes clear to people. You can actually raise the expectations. But if you're out there still waiting to get even your first shot. The news is that the country is probably on track still for enough doses for all adults by the end of may that sounds awesome But also it could be in just a few days depending on where you are so this week governors from all over our like oprah. There's like a vaccine vaccine. Don't lie on my show but get a vaccine. I'm just thinking of over thanks. yeah yeah. That's exactly what all the governors are saying. It's crazy you knew a word for it but yes it may at the latest things opening remember. It's also going to take some time to get. Everyone wants that happens. We're at just fourteen percent fully vaccinated at this point Shots are already accessible to people. Sixteen and older in places like mississippi and utah but it was just announced that that same demo in minnesota can get a vaccine by this coming tuesday while in california. It's april fifteenth and there are a bunch more states that are opening up eligibility roles to and we'll have a link in our show notes to all of that but overall yeah it does appear that most states are going to meet that goal for opening things up then as supply bumps up and up the other hurdle is actually making sure people want the vaccine helping them know where to get it. And how so gideon. How is the white house working through that part. If feels like it's going to be the question for the rest of the year right especially as infections or taking back up and we hit thirty million overall cases in the us so the answer for now seems to be tons of money. The administration is putting in ten billion dollars basically for the department of health and human to reach underserved communities communities of color rural areas and the like and the hope is that this cash investment will help reverse some not so great news. We've seen so far. There's an early pattern. Emerging black and hispanic people getting smaller shares of vaccinations. That's into the kaiser family foundation. For instance they point to california. Were just twenty. One percent of accusations have gone to latinos but that same group. They're fifty five percent of cases. Forty six percent of deaths and forty percent of the total population in the state so ensuring that equity access actually happens remains a challenge. Yeah so gideon. The news of those vaccines might have been one of the stars of biden's first press conference. Maybe not the biggest star you know. There was a lot about trump for some reason but not to be overshadowed the filibuster what divine say when pressed about the debate of whether to keep it or to kick it. He kind of went back and forth on the he was a maybe Here's party said it used to be. You had to stand there and talk and talk and talk and talk to you collapsed and guess what people got tired of talking entire collection. Filibusters broke down. And we're able to break the filibuster. Vote so i strongly support moving in that direction. In addition to having an open mind about dealing with certain things that are are just elemental to the functioning democracy. Yes this is a bit of a winding answer. Coincidentally because biden was getting at something. He's mentioned before this so-called talking filibuster where you filibuster by talking and talking and perhaps collapsing as he's driving there but nowadays you can just do it by sending an email in the words of joe biden. That is literally not a joke folks. That biden was kind of driving it. Maybe being open to further forms and agreed with president obama that it is a relic of the jim crow era but he mostly placed specific emphasis on the need for voting rights legislation. The democrats are pushing the senate he called efforts to limit vote in quote sick unquote un-american. He definitely dodged a direct answer on the filibuster rule. Though which is of course a major point of contention amongst democrats as they try to maneuver here with this fifty fifty chamber ultimately we'll see what the real president joe manchin ends up deciding. Just kidding not entirely. That's an update from biden's presser but let's turn our attention to something more local in los angeles akilah. There was a tense conversation in large park between police on house people and protesters. What happened so as of last night at ten pm eastern seven pm pacific. Here's what we know on wednesday night and into yesterday the los angeles police department moved to evict and fence up part of an in house community that had set up tents in the echo park neighborhood of los angeles. This of course goes against the pandemic guidance there was a huge standoff that turned violent against protesters. And the house blah goal behind forcing people out according to city councilman mitch o'farrell who represents the area was to quote rehabilitate the park a piece of land. So officials moved to clear out the encampment which had been there for a while but only grew since the start of the pandemic akilah. How did officials go about achieving that quote unquote goal while park rangers and lapd officers started closing off the area around ten pm local time on wednesday and they directed people living in the park to clear out their belongings including this woman who was filmed by the unhealthy advocacy organizations street. Watch la all. We are so five community. We help everybody. We got real nothing so people like the woman who just heard. We're in the midst of community members about two hundred who came to support the people being forced out but they weren't alone. Let's listen that's the sound of their standoff with police the local community news org knock. La reported that protesters were kept at bay by about twice as many police officers. So akilah. where does it stand right now. So as of thursday night the park has been mostly cleared of people with clean up crews taking care of lost items. And the lapd erecting a perimeter wall but about that councilman who said the purpose was to quote. Rehabilitate the park. It's pretty unconscionable when l. a. still has one of the biggest house populations in the nation. And that still needs to be addressed. Los angeles has seen a steady increase of homelessness and experts. Say that it's gotten worse in the past year. This event is the culmination of decades about policy and the community that showed up for each other being treated as an afterthought right and so how this most recent event went down is really drawing some criticism. Right totally the plan was reportedly devised in secret with local outlets struggling to get details from councilman o'farrell before it even happened the official department coordinates outreach services for the house. La city and county wasn't pleased. The head of the l. a. homeless services authority told the la times quote. It facilitates fear chaos and it breaks the trust we built. It seems like it didn't need to happen this way. Some residents of echo park lake put out their own statement as well saying in part quote without the constant lapd and city harassment in our lives. We've been able to grow to come together as a community not just on house but houses well and work together for the mutual aid benefit of each other. The story is still developing. And it may seem hyper local since it's occurring down the street from me but we wanted to highlight it because events like this or even a smaller scale have been happening across the nation because of an untenable housing crisis compounded by the pandemic and the economic fallout because of it. And anytime time with so much economic uncertainty and talk of getting back to normal. We should also prioritize what parts of normal are worth bringing back militarized police forces many times. The size of those at the insurrection to throw away the belongings and further displays. The most vulnerable among us should be a thing of the past. So that's the latest stay safe and we'll be back after some ads with a special headlines guests. Her this episode is brought to you by keep. Did you know that two out of three men will experience some form of hair loss by the time. they're five that is where keeps can help keeps offers a simple stress pretty way to keep your hair convenient virtual doctor consultations and medications delivered straight to your door every three months. So you don't have to leave your home. Treatment start at just ten dollars per month keeps offers generic versions to remember. Prevention is key treatments can take four to six months to show results so fast ladies and fellas if your partner is losing hair. Why not just keeps. You're ready to take action and prevent hair loss to k. e. e. p. s. dot com slash. Receive your first month of treatment for free that's k. e. s. dot com slash schwab. Get your first month free. Kfi dot com slash wide. What's up wad squad. What did they is brought to you by bev. Bev is a female. I can wind brand. That was founded to change. Not only the way. 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Hello this episode is also brought to you by brooklyn and if you sleep with the comforter you're looking for one thing it is comfort but if you're anything less than cozy you need something better brooklyn and creates beautiful high quality betting at home essential so you can live your most comfortable life. They work directly with manufacturers to give you a fair price. No middlemen no markups the also offer a variety of materials including an eco-friendly recycled down. Alternative i have a set of the brooklyn and sheets. And i gotta tell you. Comfort is the right word to be thinking about. They are great. Treat yourself to ultimate comfort with brooklyn's comforter collection go to brooklyn dot com and use promo code. What a day to get twenty five dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars that's b. r. o. k. l. i n. e. n. dot com and enter promo code. What a day for twenty five dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars brooklyn in dot com promo code today. Let's wrap up with some headlines. Head alive ends today. We have got a great guest. Jason concepcion the host of crooked new. Hit podcast take line. The all caps youtube series and guy with really funny. Sports takes on twitter. Jason thank you so much for being on our show. It's a delight to be here. Thank you so much are the delayed sir. This is great. Well let's see some headlines so no one gets receive an oscar in front of all their impressive books. The academy awards plans to ban zoom acceptance speeches and they're already getting backlash from people experiencing something called a pandemic going to the ceremony and person struck many as a bad idea and it might not even be possible. Nominees live abroad unless they come here through some secret network of tunnels that's only opened a huge celebrities at least nine. Yeah it's crazy at least nine nominees living in the uk which plans to ban non essential international trips next week. Variety says there's been a push up. The nominees prerecord their speeches boo before they know they want Which even convention considers actor torture meetings with academy officials to discuss these hurdles. This week were abruptly cancelled aches. Well active network of tunnels. Can't they do some like harry potter thing for the uk. People like a touch an old boot and then just like appear here like through a portal. That would be ideal something. They don't have technology they've had a year to figure it out. Then you'd better agents. Frankly you know like that. This is a sign that the agents are lacking during the pandemic. I'm just going to say it. Nobody's talking about it. I'm on a boat. The boat blocking the suez canal continues to go full stubborn dog. Tired of its walk just wants to lie there and it stop being funny a while ago. The boat is called the ever given by one estimate. It's holding up four hundred million dollars an hour in global trade. That's so much that's quite a lot. Delays could soon results across the world and prospects of the ship suddenly decided to move again are dim weighing in around two hundred thousand metric tons and measuring one empire empire state building. The ever given is what experts call quote a beefcake days or even weeks to dislodge one industry professional referred to it as a quote very heavy beached whale which frankly is judgy and just a little bit rude and just put it back in the water. I don't think that whales get beats. Because they're fat they get beats because they're beached. Let's focus on the problem you know. As of yesterday there were two hundred and thirty eight ships waiting outside the canal as the ever given nervously shouted out. Someone's her. I gotta say i love that The suez canal one of the most vital and densely traffic waterways in the world and it appears that the effort to free. The ship is like one guy in a backhoe and no one else yeah they had one spare digger just one. It's like the amount of effort put into like putting that fake on a playground. That's the research going. It's not even like one other person around me. And how much is he getting paid to do that. And he needs to take a break every once in a while which really slowing down. I know he eats lunch. That's another hundred million dollars. Just wasting amazon is trying out. A new union. Busting strategy called bec- clapback as amazon's bessemer plant did it's historic unionization. Vote wisconsin representative mark. Cocaine tweeted that the company overworked its employees to the point where they had to pee in bottles to reach quotas and tone mostly reserve for fast food company. Twitter accounts dragging each other's chicken sandwiches. Amazon replied quote. You don't really believe the peeing in bottles thing do you. If that were true nobody would work for us. We do love when a rat is star. Cast that screen favorite kind of behavior. The problem with amazon's tweet is that workers. Peeing in bottles has been documented extensively and is so common that it's a mean among delivery drivers today amazon worker in alabama will meet with the charlie's angels of supporting unions killer. Mike danny glover and bernie sanders. Wow i love the idea that People have so much choice in where they would work. Then choose to not work at amazon. Who is giving them a job. Because of a reason like this commodities. Yeah people are just desperate for work at this point also like. It's really cool that they want us to support amazon when they're like we don't believe the people who work for us. You really telling me that. When they said they beat bottles you believe them. We really value them. But we don't believe maybe it's that they don't believe in like human bodily functions as it's actually a much broader spiracy like you think people can even paean bottles so come on. It's not possible. Like jeff is never we. Just don't understand. Great jeff jeff does not excrete any longer limiting. Doesn't have a bottle. We wouldn't allow that factory on. The real community has finally ready terms and conditions of the crispy creams doughnuts. Vaccines promotion. And they've made some startling discoveries the big news that crispy cream isn't just giving away patriots. Two people got their shot. The also included a special. Anti vaccine clause was not to exclude individuals of the newsmax mindset specifically crispy cream says if you make the quote highly personal decision to battle covid on ultra hard mode. Get free donuts for nine. Mondays between march and may lie folks not too close or but that's your choice also is people can get doughnuts everyday this year. So they've got a leg up in the official crispy cream. Cavities and tooth decay contests. Question is why are they so anxious to give these doughnuts away. Yeah the like anybody. Anybody who wants let including the people who are making the personal decision which also has a personal decision. It's the aca very public decision. I think i think crispy cream also has a shrimp tail problem. I think that that's that's something some overlap. That's happening here. You've got to give her a little crunchy. You know what it is bad. I like to shout crispy creams for for honoring. Highly personal decision of the virus to move. Where it wants to. If crispy creams the voiceover. We'll season. Thank you so much for stopping by. It's always a dream but We've been wanting to have you on the show for a while. So is there anything else. You'd like the plug. Just listen to take line every tuesdays wherever you get your podcast and all caps. Nba on the take. Line youtube channel. Every friday follow subscribe gives us the five star ratings or we will burn your house not really but like kind of smash that notification bell believe by five devices and sign up on all of them. That's right yes. I love it. You went up and those are the headlines. One last thing before we go this week on rubicon. Brian butler talks to the roosevelt. Institute's mike konczal about president biden's three trillion dollar economic relief package and whether it warrants comparisons to fdr's new deal sin. Subscribe to rubicon on apple. Podcasts or anywhere you listen to your shows that schreiber review get free. Donuts for the right reasons and tell your friends. Listen and if you're into reading and not just tweets where brands talk like teens like me what. It is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out. Subscribe cook dot com slash. Subscribe ign kilohertz. I'm getting sick and hurry up. Ever get it. Just unlock yourself. How hard is it listen. I've been stuck in worse. And i've got now takes us a little gumption exactly butter. Butter elbow grease gumption. Got it ever gumption. What a day is a production of crooked media it's recorded in mexico charlotte landis selling your time. Is our system producer or head writer. John scene in our executive producers arcadia long akilah us and me Theme music is by concord and shocking. Hi it's from with friends like these. We're doing a series of episodes exploring reconciuliation forgiveness between people between races between countries in marriages in the criminal justice system and even what it would mean to reconcile our relationship to the planet and a small spoiler that might be one of the trickier ones with friends. Like these seeking forgiveness wherever you get your podcast.

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Exploring The Difference Between Equity And Equality In America

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

48:16 min | Last month

Exploring The Difference Between Equity And Equality In America

"The qualcomm we believe in staying connected and you can see us wherever five. G is helping transform tele-medicine supporting remote education empowering mobile. Pc's the invention ages here learn more at qualcomm dot com slash invention age in. Its very first week in office. President biden signed a pledge titled executive order on advancing racial equity and support for underserved communities through the federal government. It says the country faces converging economic health and climate crises that have exposed and exacerbated inequities while a historic movement. For justice has highlighted the unbearable. Human costs of systemic racism. And i firmly believe the nation's ready to challenge but government has to change as well we need to make equity and justice part of what we do every day and today biden signs another executive order this one to advance gender but what does equity mean when it comes to government policy. Is there a difference between equity and equality. Well equity has become sticking point in some of the confirmation hearings for biden's cabinet in january during her hearings. Marcia fudge biden's nominee for secretary of housing and urban development offered this definition homeownership. Let's take it that way. they say. Let's make everything easy. But it's not equal because even though i meet all the qualifications to qualify for home phone loan. You know i that the the right chris or two separate. But i don't have down payment money because my parents can't afford to give me down. There is no wealth coming to me where most people who are not. That don't look like me. Have that i do not have so just to say to treat us all the same. It's not the same equity means making the playing field level. Sometimes it's not level if you say let's just treating sack vice president. Khama harris added further clarity to the administration's approach late last month. We want everyone to get an equal amount. That sounds right but not everyone starts out from the same place. Some people start out on first base. Some people start out on third base and if the goal is truly about equality it has to be about goal of saying everybody should end up in the same place and since we didn't start in the same place some folks might need more equitable distribution. Well the fourteenth amendment of the constitution enshrines americans right to equal protection under the law. But it seems that in the biden administration equity has a meaningfully different definition than equality. So what does it mean for the whole of american government to work towards equity instead. I'm making a chocolate bardia. In this hour on point we're going to explore the overlap and some of the tensions between the concepts of equity and equality in america. And we'll start today with robert patterson. He's a professor of african american studies at georgetown university currently at work on a book titled black equity black equality reparation and black communities. Professor patterson welcome to you. Make how are you doing. I'm doing well. So i feel like this is almost a whole hour whose whose soul dwells indefinite. So let's start. let's start right there. I mean how would you define what you see as equity meaning today right equity today so one of the challenges of the final equity is that we can't do it without necessarily thinking about equality to speak to this tension that you are illuminated well and so when we think about equality for example we think about same sameness giving everyone for example an equal amount. Any everyone A so if there are ten houses to be distributed we would just get everyone to each right and and it doesn't necessarily account for the presence standing that sort of based on a history That has a packed that we're those people are so we think of equity by contrast we're thinking about are the resources that are needed that would account for Vice president of harasses point different starting points. So if you want a different base that would account for the accumulation of wealth or in some cases the accumulation of poverty and how to describe or how to prescribe those resources and a way that the outcomes are similar and so equality has often Been about having the same access whereas equity is trying to get the same outcome and in order to get the same outcome there may need to be different access points because people are starting place. Starting place okay. So right there. I think is where there's the tension in in in acknowledging or looking at Policies that would purport to lead to similar outcomes. Right go ahead. Good no right and so and so you call it the What marsha as you know the secretary of hud the comments she made in her statement and so after she made that statement. I think it was a senator from kentucky The junior senator rand paul. Who then said also been. Is it okay to treat people differently based on race and so. I think this might be what you're getting attention. Is that so so she wished she saying. It's i think we all are saying is it is appropriate to have these differential resources. That are you know that we find ourselves along racial lines or along gender lines as thinking of the executive order that president by the signed today but yes but not but not in the way that historically groups for civil rights and women's rights have been fighting against the differential treatment because that differential treatment To deny access to die to deny outcome and it was that differential treatment that has has made the neath equa. It's interesting moment. Where on the one hand we are saying yes There there is different treatment. I'm that same. Treatment is not going to close the gap okay. Same dream is not going to close the gap that thought. Because i want to come back to it. But regarding definitions i mean in terms of how the biden administration itself separate from speeches but in actual e might enact a an equity agenda. I'm looking at the executive order from From january right and the first part contains a definition and it says quote the term equity means the consistent and systematic fair just an impartial treatment of all individuals including individuals who belong to underserved communities that have been denied such treatment so that's about impartial treatment though not about outcomes right michelle this is but the treatment is relevant to the outcome is so i think that in that definition part of part of what the Executive orders toying with us. What justice looks like. And so when you get see conversations about equity for example justice and sameness are not are not are not interchangeable and also the impersonality apart about getting into is that perhaps the wording of this could be different but the impartiality as accounting for the notion that there is partiality. How can that currently treated resin example in terms of policy. So let's go back to the ppp You know the loans for the door during kobe. So basically you know for two week period in february It was it was targeted right. Some people might use the terminology but it was targeted. It was targeted to small businesses and businesses owned by underrepresented groups and part of what that targeting of that program did was it accounted for all of the story that were even acknowledged under the last administration. We're because of the way that policy that sorta quote unquote treat every business the same when in reality it didn't treat every business the same But they put those business at disadvantages and part of why those business disadvantages was because on the one hand is saying everybody was treated the same but the system itself is organized in such a way that smaller businesses and historically under represented owned businesses are at a disadvantage in that system. And so it's just a very interesting thing I think part of what the challenges and articulating what equity is and how it's different from equality and really just thinking through how how it plays out is that equity at its core. Fundamentally goes against some of the very values that americans are largely invested in even if they're not productive nasty issues around same. This fairness meritocracy Color blindness in the post civil rights era and so forth and so all those those notions When not understood in their complexity sort of lead to this this this notion that there's some unfair advantage. And how could he win and reality Equity is trying to close the systemic disadvantages. They have been rendered her under the current system. Well professor patterson. I think right there. You hit the nail on the head right with with with a sledgehammer. In fact because that is that is the tension about cons- broad-based historical conceptions of sort of americanise and particularly american values with how equities being defined okay. So we're gonna come back to that. But i do wanna just back in time a little because this isn't the first time that the president has spoken about equity so let's go to nine hundred sixty five president lyndon johnson speaking to the graduating class of howard university. You do not take a person who for years has been hobbled by chains and liberating bringing up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others and still justly believe that you have been completely fair president. Johnson then went on to tie the example of running a race to equity and equality. We seek freedom but opportunity we seek not just legal equity but human ability not just equality as a right and a theory equality as a fact and equality as a result pressure. Patterson we're hearing hearing those words roughly sixty years leader. What do you think. We've just got a minute to go before an expert. No absolutely. I think it just shows you. How does the circularity of history and so he makes these comments in nineteen sixty five and this was around the same time. i think. It's actually coincides right. Around the passage of the voting rights act of sixty five the fair housing and economic active sixty eight. So part of what happens during sixty that. You have the legal removal of jim crow. Which is supposed to dan. Allow equal opportunity to access but in the seventies and going forward. We see all of these assault on those legislative achievement. You know we see that the law itself is actually designed and the supreme court has reaffirmed places that disadvantage you know underrepresented groups and so this is where we are and why we're here now. Well this hour we are talking about the concepts of equity not in the real estate terms and equality and what that means in terms of practice when it comes to policies from the government will have a lot more weed comeback. This point support for on point and the following message. Come from geico. Do you own or rent your home. It can be hard work but you know what's easy bundling policies with geico geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's or renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to geico dot com. Get a quote and see how much you could save visit. Geico dot com today. This is on point a meghna chakrabarti. In this hour we are talking about the overlap and the tensions between the concepts of equity and equality especially when it comes to government policy in the biden administration. I'm joined today by professor robert. Patterson he's a professor of african american studies at georgetown university currently at work on a book titled black equity black equality reparation and black communities. And we've been getting A lot of feedback from listeners. Over social media you. You can find us on twitter facebook on point radio for example on facebook. Ray russell says what's fair is opportunity not equal outcome. Keep in mind. There will never be equal everything. All you can do is come as close as possible. We've also been hearing from listeners who've given us a call about this on point listener. Austin left us a voicemail from oklahoma. He's always felt that every american deserves an equal opportunity. I think from china memorium. There's people who do similar ways and similar efforts even from similar backgrounds and they never achieved the same result twice Whether it's you know companies do's scientific experiments or or people who grow up in the same household. You can have the team. Experience growing up in the same opportunities and siblings will split entirely separate ways and some becomes accessible in some some. Don't impart of that to measure of how you define that some people you know. Success is having a family that you know well well rounded and respectful and meet together frequently and other people with monetary. Success austin added that he thinks equality of outcome should not be a guarantee for american citizens. That the beautiful thing about our country's you can pick yourself up and try again. And the point where we blame outside or other or are are stumbling or falling than we. Don't give up again. That we've heard our fellow citizens on the other hand. Richard from oregon called us and gave us this definition of equity. If i get one hundred dollars to three people that's equality the one who already had one hundred dollars two hundred dollars one fifty one hundred fifty the one who had twenty five dollars now under twenty five dollars. That's sick to be equitable. I would give each game out that. They need to resort to result in all three having two hundred dollars. The question in my mind is do we actually care about. Bringing every citizen up to an equitable level that provides the means of accessing opportunities to further improve their lives. Just some of the large variety of responses. We've been getting from point listeners for this hour. So professor patterson hang on here with us. Because i want to introduce now into the conversation. Mike and zola's he's a senior fellow at the heritage foundation. Conservative tank might konczal. Welcome to you. I am magnet high Robert patterson and very happy to be on here with you have been listening to the conversation. This is very important do you think equity inequality are meaningfully different or are we just having are we just sort of struggling over definitions at the margins nano. These are really important differences. I i mean traditionally equity did mean more or less the same as equality that the demeaning has now been corrupted. I in the academy of many years ago and now this has been adopted very worryingly by the biden administration. I think i think got robert. Patterson hit the nail on the head when he said that. The option of the concept of unequal treatment according to raise in other categories violates cherish american concepts. And the tusk. That's the reason why there's so much pushback and not just norms right. But it violates the constitution itself every american deserves equal treatment under the law and the president and the entire executive branch should be focused on ensuring that equality is protected and afford to all that i would say to to robert. Patterson is what justice looks like so i am concerned that the administration seems to be attempting to do the opposite professor passionate. Let you respond in. Just one second but i wanna also quickly ask my consol. Professor patterson also talked a few a few minutes ago. About how the bite administration's One of their stated goals regarding equity of outcome Regarding in what areas of american life we can talk about in a minute but equity of He he was saying that that that perhaps produces attention in people because it It challenges some What have been historic american values regard regarding meritocracy etc. What are your thoughts about that. Yeah i know absolutely. The government cannot guarantee equal outcomes. And this is again. What vice president. Kamala harris once she. She says that she's a leading proponent of this prison biden is following along It it's it's i mean is so frenetic. The way they're pushing this equal outcomes to now be guaranteed. We make different choices in life. We have different faculties In we have many many different subcultures in this vast country of ours. Where we're what matters to you. What is important terms of self respect as a lot to do with the decisions that you make so promising equal outcomes i. It's impossible but it's not even a gold worth pursuing is. It's actually unfair. Professor patterson your response. I have a couple of sites. I if in fact i misspoke earlier and said The the quote might basically that that it was a equity was problematic Then that's actually. I actually do think the equity is important. You know this idea that one of call it. I think it was ray or not on facebook. Something about equal outcomes. I think we're really getting at is trying to Outcome that are more on par. We know that everybody won't necessarily have the same outcome at the same time. I think it's important to that. We'd be careful about what these founding documents did right so as someone who is black the cop kind of three fifth of a person that the constitution this notion that that we somehow in in violation of the constitution Or somehow that we're doing something unfair is fascinating to me given that There's not these comments about fairness when these policies historically have advantage non people of color and so for example when the housing administration nineteen thirties and forties did red lining has contribute to the inter generational transfer of well it has contributed a segregated neighborhoods. That that is something that the government did When the government dishonorably discharged disproportionately black soldiers in world war two which contribute to them not being able to take advantage of the gi bill etc. You know people could make a false claim that this was about their behavior in italy's perform but this is also very much about probably more so about the pervasiveness of institutional and individual racism that has enacted policies procedures. That in that is an active a relationships. And i think we have to be very careful about this notion about His presence notion about being on there. And i would just say that the academy probably did not corrupt the term equity but instead provided nuance what when be understand things better and think about across which is actually Which is actually what happened. So even if for those people who would say. I'm not against i'm not against i'm against equity but i'm not against equality of Of opportunity i think the point that the caller from The the second call you oriented from oregon and the point that lyndon johnson was making this even to have equal access some equity. We need to take because the because because the starting point itself are not the same even if we're not even if we say okay outcomes to off. The is too idealistic having equal access to the starting point but require different resources. And i think that's that's the point. Yeah and so let me just follow up with an ask you a what do we is. The point that you're making is that in the united states because of the past four hundred years that we don't even though the nation may have this worthy aspiration of true equality that because we haven't we haven't yet fulfilled. We haven't fulfilled the tenants of that aspiration that we don't know what if we actually did successfully remove barriers from people's lives that we might we might actually produce equity of outcome that way but we don't yet know think you're hitting a dead on the head. Which is that. I would think the point that. I'm making an others of his mind. Is that the history In the legacy of Slavery for one for jim crow segregation for the salt on the civil rights legislative achievement from the sixties. The moment that we're currently living in that those legacy legacies actually bad that those legacies of starkly have advantage You know large swath of white population by promoting anti black racism and white supremacy among other forms of discrimination. And that at this point we're trying to say let's stop doing that and less instead. Focus on the aspirations that the united states set for in its founding documents as it at once guaranteed freedom equality for a large portion of the population and guaranteed unfreedom for a significantly large popular pushing. The population might consolidate your response to that. Yes thank you so very very briefly on this week. Fifth clause as as robert patterson knows because he's a professor that was about limiting. The power of slave owners was introduced by an abolition james wilson. Now let's go back to the main point here. The core principle of civil rights era was discrimination on the basis of race was evil. That was what the civil rights era promised. In fact the first use of the term affirmative action came in a in jack. Kennedy's executive order nine to five. Which then and. I'm so glad you brought up the howard. University speech may not lbj begins to corrupt by bringing up the horse. Recent allergy that horse race analogy was first employed by herbert croly in the one thousand nine one of the progressives and and put it was missing then was race. It's lbj introduces the concept of race. And so this is the important thing with with the equal comes here. I think robert patterson is completely right when he says that it doesn't promise. Individual equalised comes. It's worse than that actually because it. It promises according to numerical representations in official categories categories of race. It promises racial parity. This ball this policy would have does. Then it's creates a caste system that is alien to the american ethos. Let me just give you an example. A chilean origin neurosurgeon. His children will be counted as members of a marginalized group even though he may be white in need of greater resources than a lifelong waitress. In pensacola who comes from a generation of white shareholder. Sharecroppers this is the problem here social disadvantage. According to this new policy is determined at birth. It cannot be shaken by success over. Successful life weaken. This is not twenty first century. America this seventeenth century india. We cannot have a caste system in this country. that's not what the what the constitution promises that is not what the civil rights act promised In fact hubert humphrey went on the floor of the senate and he said if anybody can find a quota system here. I will eat every page of this bill and then became corrupted in in in in a way the way it's being used now it's never been so pushed to such a degree as for now seeing in the biden harris administration. It going. we'll have great deal back on this because this is these are from the mental to america these concepts right so professor passionate. I'm going to give you a chance here to respond in. Just a second but mike konczal. I wonder though. Could it be argued that to a certain degree. America does have a kind of caste system already. It's just defined by different means. I'll use the example of the city that i'm sitting here in here in boston. There was a study done many several years ago. That found that the median The median net wealth of a white family in boston was a little over one hundred somewhere over one hundred thousand dollars and the median. Net wealth of a black family in boston was eight dollars for a whole variety of reasons. And those are that wealth of course as you well know is transferred from generation to generation which eventually forms a kind of a created caste system. If not by the same strict definition as you might have an indian example you gave but we're having the same trends emerging in this country. regardless don't you think well where we need to do then is continue what the what the civil rights act of sixty four and the whole era. promise which is removed the obstacles to wealth creation. But look we. We must be cognizant of the fact that more likely disparities results from different behaviors from cultural patterns. This is a vast country different geographical subcultures with peer group values that play a role where people choose to spend their time. What the study or not study with the choose to do for living. We can't equate just the existence of a disparity with as we cannot see that as evidence of racism. I brought a better after we have to do is remove the obstacles government cannot discriminate and we must removed the obstacles to wealth creation education etc. Yeah rubber peasant go ahead. i'm gonna keep this I'm gonna keep this simple and pretty direct so the first you know. One of the one of the people will take exception to the issue of equity in the biden harrison. Ministration i think for a couple of reasons one because There used to if you're in a group that has constantly been advantage if you're in a group that has been deeply invest these ideas of history that i've outlined earlier. Don't matter then your way of life you know might be changing so that that might cost of angst but that doesn't make what they're doing wrong By any stretch of the imagination as far as the civil rights movement went and goes we can talk about the civil rights act of nineteen sixty per hour. We want but if we look at the The whole ethos of the movie. We look at leaders like then and others who were calling for a pack of still And the notion of the packers that the achievement in the current moment will be one aspect but they would have to be some affirmative actions That would have to be taken. That would again closed. The gap that exists to get us to where we can have equal equal access opportunities. But if there's one thing that i really want the listed on his show to really just sit back and think about in their own personal live into really take back up. Is that there. This notion that behavior and cultural values are the primary if not over determining factor of why different groups have unequal exits outcome is at the heart of the section of mir autocracy is at the heart of white supremacy and how it describes itself. It is at the heart of how institutional racism and other forms of discrimination. Don't get caused the name because the reality of it is this even if i had what would be considered normal behaviors. I didn't have access to those institutions. How could i do it. How could i pull myself my shepherd. I don't own any boots. Because economic discrimination and so this notion is very notion of behavior and cultural value. Those are dog whistle politics that help us to miss where anti black racism and other forms of discrimination are entering into institution orchestrated to people in those institution might cause we just have thirty seconds to go before we have to take a break. But i'll give you a last thought here yeah. I don't think the use of ad hominem really helps here. It's not going to debate. These issues need to be discussed at. It had nothing to do with anything. That robert patterson send just just just discussed it has to do with. Why and i would be very happy if i come back to give examples of how disparities emerged just out of what what what what it means to self respect in its culture. Well how do you derive dignity the choices you make or we've got about ten seconds before i do have to take that break but mike. Konczal is the heritage foundation. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you we'll be back. This is on point. This is on point meghna chakrabarti tomorrow on the show. We're gonna be talking about this concept of vaccine passports in israel people who are fully vaccinated against covid nineteen can download a a little green passport. Granting them access to species like restaurants or live performances other countries are considering similar systems. What are the advantages. What are the pitfalls of a vaccine passport idea. Let us know at six hundred seven three five three zero six eight three six one seven three five three zero six eight three. That's for tomorrow's show. Today we are talking about the biden. Administration's policy push for equity and how that's different from equality in america in two thousand and twenty one and i'm joined today by robert. Patterson he's a professor of african american studies at georgetown university. Professor patterson there is a point that mike wells was making before the break that i wanna explore in a little bit more detail because he talked about The discomfort that or i mean he would. He would say unconstitutional nature of crafting government policies on the basis of race. Okay now. I want a very specific and very recent example. It happened in california in the last election they had a proposition their prop sixteen That would end race neutrality in in certain state level policies there. It was prop sixteen was supported by you. Know the the brightest lights of the california left including Vice president comma harris it was endorsed by almost every major newspaper. Lots of money was spent on it. But voters defeated their voters of essentially defeated defeated it by fifty six fifty six to forty roughly forty four percent and a lot of and this is in california right. Cya trueblue state. It was because many california's saying they didn't want to treat people differently. On the basis of race or national origin others had concerns about the validity of different racial ethnic categories in a state. That's as diverse as california today and. I'm just wondering what you think about that. So here's one of those tests. Where policy like the rubber of policy was meeting the road and it spun and didn't and didn't didn't work. What do you think right. I think a couple of things. I think that one of the What are the challenges. Goes back to a point. I was making earlier. Which is what happened after the legislative achievements the civil rights movement. And so part of what you would hear through a lot of people who against Aunts who are against affirmative action or example policies in the seventies. They would go back and take part of king's speech where he was saying that he would. He wants his children to be judged by the by the content of their character rather than by the cover of their skin. Which of course we know with me that he did not want them to be this advantage unnecessarily because they were black right. And so what you. What you did have is this. This arise of this notion of race neutrality In the sense in the sense that we don't have to account for how rafe actually matters and policies formation or impacts. okay. And so i would. I would just to say that dig. The defeating of it speaks to a lot of the challenges of the moment sort of thinking about race in its history thing about ethnic categories thinking about how it may or may not be an active. That is with the with the concern. Is someone going to an someone going to be or some group going to be Quote unquote advances versus disadvantage. And so i think that what happens in these moments is back to your point high level policy thinking. But then what's happening on the ground and people understanding of what's capping out is gonna play out. I do think that there is a gap there and and messaging example. I'm what's really at stake messaging. And also but to your point the practical considerations i think this is why maybe this conversation his best hat on a policy by policy basis right but suggest to stick with the proper sixteen example for a second. I mean if it had passed and i'm quoting from the atlantic here. California officials might have been forced to decide whether african american descendants of enslaved people should be treated the same as nigerian immigrants or whether folks who identify as chinese indian american hmong were. How do you figure out the differences between those groups and in terms of then how california policy would be be enacted that just was not popular with the majority of california voters in a state. That's already incredibly diverse. We weren't just asking white people what they thought about that idea right exactly and so right. And so when i think that your point that You know people are not inoculated are not What is what. I'm trying to us. They are not immune to the different discourses that shape how we understand about race. Which say you for example could have black people who've internalized. Somebody's ideas but i'm talk about manifestation of white supremacy. You could have you know. Asian pacific islands and so. I think that that is why because the idea that i have been talking about and show you know. They are widespread value shared across american groups even if and when they're not necessarily productive to that group's ability to move in a forward direction. We wanna take some time now to really put this conversation. This moment in american history in the broader context of civil rights. Were doing that a little bit more. But if you'll allow me. Professor patterson i want to hear from from a key civil rights activist from the nineteen sixties. Because also we should note that yesterday marked the fifty sixth anniversary of bloody sunday the day that civil rights activists were attacked by state troopers in selma alabama linda. Blackman lowry was there in. Nineteen sixty five including on the edmund pettus bridge when peaceful demonstrators were beaten by the police. She was fifteen and the youngest person to walk every step from the march from selma to montgomery i went to of fourteen times before my fifteenth birthday so what propelled her to activism at such a young age. She says she was just seven years old. When her mother died in childbirth see needed blood. There was an hour white hospital here and samba. And it had blurred. That could have possibly saved my mother but it was not negro blood at the age of seven. I made a vow. That when i got the our gonna change things and nobody would ever have to grow up without amami again because of the color of skin so when we asked lowry about what equality meant to her in the nineteen sixties. She spoke about the pledge of allegiance. Is there's with liberty and justice for all and i couldn't have understand that at seven years old because if everybody had just as they coulda gave my mother the blessed she needed as soon would not have left us. She told us that to this day. She does not say the pledge worse this liberty and justice for all. I don't see that when a man can all the man down with his neon net until he dies until he stops breathing. Where is the just. So what does she think about this. Shift from the word or concept of equality to equity. Some people might say well you have equity in your home that heaven man and then out still laugh and say okay but there's not equity that's not fair and is i am trying to build up my home unit trying to build the us but when it comes to selling those on because of the color of your skin you're gonna get more money for your own then don't get for man no matter how have built it up because you are white. Lowry added that she thinks the distinction between equality and equity is important and i both have degrees from prestigious schools and we sat at a desk across from each of the every day. You make more money than me doing the same job and that worked twice as hard on my job. Just because i feel i have to prove that i deserve this job. He ple equity fair well in her eyes. Lowry app says that advocates for civil rights. Today may have bigger challenges than even she did in the nineteen sixties when as the dillard fluids gidding keel. When i hear of the tail in the sandra lands it mate the mink deal didn't finish my job and in the bush for civil rights. Larry says words hold power we in the sixties week with word unity. Back in the community. Now you need that word again. Unique community and the word unity is missing. You need humanity and the word uman is missing from there and we need to get those words in mayor. Linda blackman lowery. She spoke to us from her home in selma alabama on saturday. She's author of the book turning fifteen on the road to freedom. My story of the nineteen sixty five. Selma voting rights march. So professor patterson. How do you see this. Current moment in the in the in the discussion of equity and how it might be enacted through government policy. How do you see that in the in the this continuum here. Yeah i think. I think of it as i. I was Very moving if i was happy to be able to to hear it and so in and and her Experience however unfortunately with the pledge kind of would it would it meant and all. I can think of right right. She'd see needed blood but it was a it was a hospital. You know jim crow segregation that did not serve black communities and you got people say oh well they could have chosen to live somewhere differently. But they actually. They couldn't have made that choice because again all the choices are not equal and they're not the same which which is at the heart of this. As far as the present moment goes i think that the one of the big challenges but it is due to challenges to equity but the are the civil rights movement. They go hand in hand. The first is this distinction and understanding the distinction between equity and equality And how histories shape that conversation because these are not isolated conversation that just in the present moment that they come out of a history extending four hundred years of a group and individual tree so that that's one thing the civil rights movement civil rights movement rather out of the mid twentieth century. It outlawed explicit forms of discrimination against people and black individual which was an important feet and in doing that. It also opened up the window for people to say oh well now that the obstructions to access to quality have been moved removed. Legally the starting point are the same. And there's really no need for any other types of treatment that would account for the history that got us where we are and so part of the current movement has to do to get equity if the continue to message continue to demonstrate through these specific examples right where we know that the behaviors had disproportionate outcomes so in policy for example. What would have been what would have happened. If during the obama administration for example when countrywide which then became bank of america wells fargo out these big banks who had intentionally engaged in predatory lending to predominantly black communities and brown people will instead of handing them thousand dollars or two thousand dollars as a penalty from these big banks had said to the big banks. You need to give them their house back and pay off the mortgage as the penalty right. What would what would that would that would that have have looked like so so in other words you have you. You have predatory monday. That disproportionately takes advantage people amd brown people and people might say well they couldn't afford the house. That's not true. People who would have followed by for nonstop problem were pushed into these loans as an example. So if you have a contemporary example and so if you take this and say this is what you did. We're gonna give you. The penalty is going to be going to disproportionate portion of this workshop. Wherever the cases that would be those are the way that policies and laws would be proud to account for the fifth series of discrimination and graphic ways. I've just gotta jump in here for saying because we only have two minutes left professor patterson and no i hear your i hear the potency of your ideas but again we're talking about policy from the federal government which is bound by law and the constitution. And this is where we've been hearing in the confirmation hearings for example a lot of tensions. I just want to hear play particular moment. Here's republican senator. Tom cotton Questioning president biden's nominee for hud secretary marcia fudge again on this definition between equity and here's their interaction so just be clear. Sounds like racial equity means treating people differently based on their race. Is that correct. Let based on race but it could be best based on economics it could be based on the history of discrimination that has existed for a long time it could be based on educational levels it could be based on many things not necessarily just race. Is it ever appropriate for the government to treat people differently based on their race now. so professor patterson. We've just got a minute left here but this is gonna come up again and again in every conversation understanding equality and equity. I mean even marcia fudge. They're even saying we can't have policies that are based on race. I glad you played that. And i miss early. I said rand paul. But it was time kind. That was that was actually the clip. I was talking about What i think the point is is that i thought you said not just race but it could be other categories of identity to say no to raise The point here sort of is it that you're doing what you're doing and so treating someone differently in this case is trying to get a fairer or better outcome. Where's treating them the same. That would be well. Robert patterson is professor of african american studies at georgetown university currently at work work on a book titled black equity black equality reparation in black communities. Professor patterson thank you so much for joining us for what feels only just the beginning of of a much longer conversation that we will continue to have on the show so i really appreciate you being with us. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm magna party. This is on point.

biden administration Professor patterson robert patterson Patterson biden Geico meghna chakrabarti georgetown university qualcomm President biden Marcia fudge biden Khama harris america federal government jim crow lyndon johnson geico geico
Ontology Co-founder Li Jun on Asias crypto ecosystem and the smart contracting landscape

Messari's Unqualified Opinions

47:47 min | 1 year ago

Ontology Co-founder Li Jun on Asias crypto ecosystem and the smart contracting landscape

"Welcome back everyone says Ryan Celsius to another upset of Saris unqualified opinions reach week. I discuss key industry trends with cryptos. Top investors builders and thinkers just reminder. Massari much more than a PODCAST COMPANY. So if you're industry professional or CRYPTO investor head over them sorry dot io and check out misery pro are cryptic. Toolkit that offers best in class research advanced screening and charting tools. Keep you ahead of investing curve. Plus NEW ENTERPRISE ALERTS TOOL. Rosso hosting the industry's largest tool of the main net. This June first through third with over fifty hours of programming one hundred confirms speakers and virtual networking so seemless. You'll feel like you're actually there. Fifty percent of the profits are heading to Kobe relief. So go reserve your spot today at main net dot events that's Massari Dot. Io for pro research tools and may net dot events the best virtual event. You'll attend this year. 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Dot and you will not be disappointed. All right everyone. Welcome back. Another episode of Missouri's unqualified opinions on Ryan Circus to bit idiot on twitter. Got a very special guest tonight. It is late here. East Coast time. It is early where he is talking about. June junely is the founder of policy. A WANNA largest ACURA. Oh projects in China Quit a bit about the eastern versus Western crypto scenes. Some of the plans that he and the team have for their noon and ever evolving platform and down probably get into a little bit of the Corona Virus Update. I'm sure as we are with pretty much every guest house instead of the only topic that most people care about June before we get into your background. The background of the project how How has everything been in Shanghai? And and how much of your team and kind of ecosystem is currently based in China. Because I think that's probably helpful orientation point for people like much of our audience which is going to be more Western Dominated if we have this conversation in a vacuum and and people don't have a proper sense for exactly what is on the ground in China right now. I do to the corona virus. It might sound other otherworldly Or or confusing that you just kind of brushing off from not to worry about what? What is the reality on the ground? with the team and and you know with the Gradually easing measures to to bring this under containment. Since it's been relatively contained in China Yeah Countries. A suggestion already be. I think he's come and be controlled during China. We'll see and manning company have backed walks and I guess is especially maybe more than seventeen eighty percent. Dennis is retained to a war. Call Open of course some public activities short or some people can also use a Pommie carris bus company already back to walk and attacking co ended. Teeing off the team Jon. Hi unto today's swap As almost situation and of course a lot of arguments about various especially pulsing all K- whereas Mattis Commander People always log you where the orange sauce especially under are also Check arguments and the approach of of China and hall to the various coming. And I think wait with the Anita tossed scientists science as a lot of scientists deal walked for that to figure out ingenuity sauce. Steer no answer right now. So we're still waiting for at China currently situations controls. I know a lot of Arras Very dangerous or bad situation right now. Maybe New York also is off to Aris so we also looking folsom some things. We can do half full fall for those kind of Europe United States on Aris so so it is county. China is continues become a stable situation. So let's talk a little bit about your background and and the project and they'll kind of get back up to the modern day again but When did you first get into the CRYPTO ECOSYSTEM? And and what was the the so-called pill that you took to to get involved as it? Bitcoin was a was a theory him. And and what made you go all in and decided to start your own Multi Chain Project Okay actually. I'm joins a prochains Australia very early station stations time. This is before that he is maybe five years ago. Bitcon there but feel people know be a the time I will keep on a Ceefax Ceefax. China Financial Future Exchange is China wall the largest traditional financial exchange profile. I'm walking as a technical structure and technical leader gas pause and wait with fund okay. New Technology called Brooke Shannon rich be handed a calling coming so isn't k. That's where maybe impact the financial exchange financial trading Futian so I need a small team to do inves- Unification Yadda to Saudi research. This new technology that time you Steve just a few people papers like become white papal and to to to do the kind of study often that I read some paper a okay. Let's not homing packing on. H is also candle new. I guess collaboration waters people can do cooperation. Collaboration is not only the package. Fudosan financial trading of Scenario they also impacted to follow traditional yards his Caucasian. So I think okay I cannot. I want you to do Kendall new since that time. I think because such traditional financial institution already exists most things already s more than one hundred so a hundred years so I wanted to try to some newsies now so the five years ago I aside quite my job and a Tude to begin to joying. Neal's thought talk that time. Then your thoughts hope code on. Chen is technical. Company is maybe his earliest taking any. They have several phoned us Wise Thong phase yields funder. And not also Eric also found us another phone the whole of new and I also join us Technical Company and that may be too technical comedy in China wildest so is thought to do it. So doing this part twisting okay. We need a new of Pop. Perform they can support toning. Egypt'S S or Egypt's economic economy and also can link to real traditional industries been scenarios they can also especially they also supports entity and tiled change and even into Eagle Environment. So it's why we're kickoff Ontological hobby off on the mall southwest taught as and why? Why did you make the decision to split from neo and and kind of create these Projects went what is unique about oncology. Because you still work pretty closely with NEO. If I'm As memory shirted incorrect. What what a where we're we're the dividing lines. And how do you work together of view each other's projects today okay Was Actually Al. Shan and NEO is Difference Company and different projects newest hobby community based Pablo Walsham. On told you also a community based on with watching on Shays Technical Company in private attending Cola launching tangles. Louis the actually the difference Trainee on on holidays on small vocal sounds Cro is how to link the center. Ice ended to traditional event pennies in Ireland is candle convert those finish to essentially isolate. So let me. They will focus on some fundamental modem slightly disinterested entity is entrusting tight shouldn't protocol though also how to link and on meat is went Lino requirements. Kyc So oncologists more like a price or scandal. More focus on traditional I mobile digit ASS and is Egypt's economy still have different tacking. Coal Lobby attack any undocked capture and a penis object as you think about your positioning You know there's there's some schools of thought where there's China and then there's the rest of the world right And and you've seen this. In terms of how aggressively the Chinese government has been and how much they've embraced blockchain technology and they're digital currency efforts right now on the other hand It's been very hot or cold with public blockchain's like a theory. I'm like Bitcoin Having the the nexus of the project and the team in the ecosystem in China. How do you think about Being a permission system and also Being open for non Chinese participation Given that the systems that seem to be doing well on mainland especially are ones that are actively engaged with the government and and at are much more permission versus open and accessible to a global audience. Yeah they have actually pots for example. The China national digital currency or lunch to as an estimate and some small Moscow. That's Today's not candle. Decentralized all broke Shin Solution is a. It's just a candle. Each of the nicest tolkien's ocean so this centralized control solution for that. So for this part. Fundamentally is no difference with Conti on the tradition on being just to use and mullah technical way to to use that falls abroad channel decentralized surveys of course China in most Cases Permission Brookshire is maybe candle Anna's from different combinations of beauty accommodation and Brooke Shannon to being a specific scope specific scenario to to do this. Of course those are also can view some host specify scope but thinking largest g-o-v especially the FLEX POSCO Benny's process. You don't know okay. What she's you'll participants they wanna do this process best on the cross for makistill it con. So you'll have to use technical as open and use open source and you should be very clear transparence honest process and people coming so so. I see a belief party platform on ontological gist the Abbasiya Specify usage newsom Defense sculpture so the government's policies. Maybe just the one to us some individually master. They don't know the background. They may be some invest some project. This scam skin project Bats project but if you have a long term history and Schule platform packing on age code and use case already and this. I believe Steve have a space to has to do that. Especially at most some case law scope reflects bowl scenario permission. Blockchain cannot call this constitution. They cannot build a transparent tossed in many cases so so idea sink hobby broad sham platform is will be a keesing. You know. I'm I'm curious with that in mind. Which use cases you see is as unique for oncology or or which you are servicing that are are similar to was already being developed on top of a theorem Texas For you know is what will likely be built on it out which is also making a concerted effort to to make You know deepened roads in the Chinese market once they launched with substrate. So how? How do you divvy up? The Universe is. This is this zero-some in terms of competing developer mindshare ecosystem health and the network effects that come along with that Were are there particular? Niches that apologies particularly well suited for versus. So it's other competitor James Pots lying's technical had tell you focused on two important protocol Ami expect for the broaching structure of course ways should have a high performance anti sunrise Netease maybe similarly different projects. The major projects Webby similar of course Antonio in the infrastructure level have some specific techniques. Asiana multiple a mission. I mean smart contracts. Different smaller contracts Mackenzie and Machines Mona contract on tawdry currently in the public brought changes. The for the Feis is funny one to do that. But the technical parties is only for structure that Ace Maybe a just a small difference even between a PSEUDOMONAS But in pro on holiday where more focused on to posses wise disinterest identity. He's also already covered all the protocols and more than that amount of specific motive for Montagna and another is daytime exchange is data exchange protocol. Those two pause can be to real identity if not only people also include devices company organization in Israel Business Case on Eerie Award. Any sometimes KYI process some also can be neat if an eagle requirements. I me devante surveys also can be a bear accepted by England Another data chance was deep beneath data. Use is important whistles. In the county lockup off Kennel binny's process broad Chin from my punchbowl few context Bronco Chase Wall best solution right now to support a daytime exchange and cooperation in launch scope. So that's why we mull olive. Data essentially state high exchange protocol. Conti is wall. A comprehensive contrasts protocol right. Now compare with ause. Data Exchange Protocol and projects vessels also kicked off. Just kick it off a daytime exchange market like called Saga So that is the way we want more focused. Actually we continue wait. We all different price on discuss ways on. Paul Thomas is private is kind of There beside it adds a patient and Sundays pots until you also defense always project committees basely is important resource and is supporting s on but we also have a cold in China and also have a global team. United States and Europe will private slowness for defense partners traditional even partners to do deeply cost nation on the long-term slowest full hyphen to face. The process Condo team for Combo teams are to try Slovak specimen autism. That is also Walleye allied advantage. Wince was one Ending a company. They want to move the production to a decentralized Sylvia's awful The technical evaluation is warm. Poss- Annandale also need a Okay is to me. You can long-term you finally to some. If I needed a deeply cost mission you find some consolation. Studies is those kinds of My mind reopen is. We'll try Russ I'm seeing all just feels small at the APPS. Comedy base as fine by the for the most enterprise. They want to launch him that his way confronted. We can come guaranteed as Kendall. Sony's this also swan fight on so let's to posses friendship us with ause platforms right. Not Sense The young I'm curious. What the How much time and energy you spent thinking about the economics of the token versus on the underlying use cases because in in Korea and China and Hong Kong there. There has been a much stronger. speculative streep in the communities. And you know a much greater emphasis on where trading or what the financial performances How how does it impact the the features that you build the The the things you prioritize the technical roadmap on Updates if at all because I obviously oncologists perform well as a as a public blockchain Pry The in the top thirty or so. It is and and recognition but that strikes me as a dynamic that would lead many in the Many developers many teams in and projects that are operating the east to put more of a focus on financial products and actually trying to figure out how the platform will generate value and that ultimately back to the stakeholders in slightly different from from the way that it is in the US. I mean this is for better for worse because there are some. Us projects some European projects. Now we issued a token but we're not really focused on the economics of were just focused on software and and for people that bought the token early on. They're they're kind of like raising their hands and saying you know what what the Hell To what what Type of thinking do you put into that? How does that factor in your decision making process data? Okay Yeah from all understanding. Technology is important. Sing but it's just kind of best one as a certain saints. Yo you have to do finish. You have a fabulous Sean. Technolog- union long-term progressively but as a platform as a platform. You have it to Causes Penis Moto and the Economy Modo and is term how you can go to Tin Foil. Supporter or massive. Maybe some supportes technical support to somebody. Who's just to invest? You have to concentrate at Kennel. Ceo Kenneth Jesse Your Tolkien and I have an idea of my technology is. Technology is useful malts having people want to use. This is not my my consent if I have gotten not just like he's serum They got famous in early. Stage have lodged community. This is for the following project next okay. Mic is better than zero. But I lost not so lucky to find his God famous. I don't think this good Entity for this part new not owning concerned about an honest police. Your need also need a concern how to dues Abani Smalto into long-term this. Why waste deal on the court? He was only a technology. Parts would also have very large Spanish development teams. They are talked to the different partners. Especially Traditional Benes Europe United States and in China in Asia. Japan and Korea is way while K. We want more use small case mostly logging on holiday besides that we also have a very large product team. They build a client product. Tony mobike application at different small apps and web occasion the best torture To focus on different scenario been different. Use case scenarios. That's lost. We want to have more use drill use case running on holiday more and more transaction. One was daytime one. More identity being registered to dont`a Vinci that amaz Basil that's okay can got ecosystem but ecosystem and not some people think okay because there's some Rio since you're not a union barrique about your call. Can you tell me that means like until you do? Tolkien's is very like a traditional stock stay buddies anita difference but was easiest chaos more and more use case got one benefit to on. Hoda army token holder. I think this has process highs model so people can support him. Do this portfolio London in. No Okay you're doing advocacy will increase the severity of the Tolkien. That you can the the master support long terms. That's also important because to be honest. The whole industry broaching industry. It's not a Kim. Be survived just by their own business model. I mean Ymcamn can cover. All you'll tank Nicole coast on being host right now not to less past is better likely. The early stage international a industrial the put or investable more than income. So Basilan. That what kind of do people can toss to you in the long term and Model is makes sense. They want to support owning Kennel. Just the trading just a HAP- HAP- pro is finished. This is important is that is the sinks and logic ontological want to community not only attacking him home each and also to understand it as also we. We want she'll ever efforts ever results ever achievement Mahtani a announcement is also people to to sink. Okay this is the logically make sense logic. Hap- he'll the future values. So so I think says both point technology this episode of the podcast brought to you by Luca. Save money this tax season with Luke attacks the only time tested crypto tax software. Lucas listened to your feedback analogy calculate capital gains and losses seeing the results using three different accounting methods side by side. All for free. You only pay if you want to see their detailed tax reports and submit your forms using our software loop supports unlimited transaction download from all major exchanges and wallets and helps you optimize your tax reporting. So you can Max out the shears refunds or minimize. How much you have to pay. Luca wants to help them. Sars unqualified opinions listener. Save even more this year. So use Promo Code. Sorry tax and you'll get a discounts much more importantly a deer taxes correctly. Stay out of jail. Download Luke attacks at Luca with two KS TAX DOT COM and. Save money this tax season this episode of the podcast brought to you. By CRYPTO DOT COM. We know times are tough. That's why CRYPTO DOT dotcoms introducing three different measures to help its community with their new CRYPTO DOT COM APP and Credit Card I. They're waving three and a half percent credit card. Theon all crypto purchases in the next three months. They're also offering ten percent back museum. Ceo Visa Card on food and Grocery shopping and as always you can buy gift. Cards on the CRYPTO DOT COM APP for merchants like whole Foods Safeway Burger King and more with twenty percent back on food in additional ten percent back on groceries to download the CRYPTO DOT COM APP. Today I definitely think that is a I don't know the unique perspective. I think. The entrepreneurs operators In the east are able to speak about that much more directly than some of the operators in the West for for regulatory reasons What what of your discussions been like your if any with some of the western stakeholders the the The infrastructure providers shame ges The funds because you know you can't It's almost like you can't talk about certain token dynamics with an exchange. No for instance if it's not absolutely a non security and and a a genuine crypto currency like bitcoin or the early forks with very limited exceptions. Does that Do you actively seek out Western partnerships at this point or are you content to let them come to you when when the time is right for Maria gets ray standpoint on your question policies about Union Trading Hustle. Well just generally getting Western involvement in the anthology system of which trading is is obviously going to be a big elements. Because that's that's generally how people I get involved in these ecosystems okay I think people in the different committee actually want to one one one. Two people two lovely because as soon as you better some making beauty is try. Sundays on television TESA Watson's if as invested away actually don't do any directed to any candle. Investments are recommendation that dog Shoes a logic what his logic could be handed. Tolkien wanted lauded for this platform or pro. What is Longtime House got value in the long term will vary want to clear that people to understand yet so they can do the decision. That's okay. I want to builder to be a builder butte. My Sunday Santorum. Not I can be a master okay. Acade- Conti on the long term. I Cook a value. And of course they needed to evaluate consciously price. Okay surprised marketed. Marcus Isis is time to investment as a special an mostly with the one to one more people okay they can call it the county in as a decentralize to try it on to private Surveys against the Soviets not owning a infrastructure protocol insults also candle consulting and the customization technical service for that so that he has album. Of course we needed to me. One loss attitude to to got more commutation way French commune in different areas. What are some of the things that keep you up tonight or are most concerning As you scale community scale the technology And you know why I was having a conversation with With a few folks just last night where the especially in light of everything that's going on internationally beyond Crypto. There's concern that On one hand. This is cryptos moment so if it doesn't take off at scale and particularly bitcoin and then having a trickle down a factor or many of the wet three applications we've been talking about for a long time if not now then when and On the other extreme if things move so quickly and and and there is such radical change that bitcoin in theory and all the other major asset spike That draws too much attention than of the ecosystem could be stifled To me it. It seems like that's particularly concerning In China from the censorship perspective but not so much practically speaking given that the corona virus itself is relatively contained and it doesn't seem life has been permanently altered In China where where your concerns today right I is is it is it. What's going out the rest of the world or is it with what you can control. And how oncology continues to establish itself versus. You know a theory. Or some of the other protocols that are Much more globally recognized and and and larger from an ecosystem standpoint. Was I say soft costs From Mike Konczal Standing Brooke Shannon Industries. Very Likely International. She tall platform in different. Vertical will be the final winner. This may just one maybe first and second procel and become the final Weena and assertive web become gone so I legs on a traditional industry. That's definitely but wasn't to have different pod form a private You different verticals co Just like an Internet Okay facebook forslund social networks. Who Go for the such changing and maybe Amazon for the ECOMMERCE and China's Cigna so we have with defense strategy and in a focused way ause of famous country. Most problem and be calling them. They cannot call all kinds of scenario if decentralize soon become a candle. Man's stream survey seeing the future next generation civil different product to local saga so at Least County on holidays while option. I mean shortness. Right now you still exist. He more than three s and just a few platform. I mean poppy. Chernoff long can still exist So continue this. Do you have a chance to do that? And is a global recognition. Swazis conscientious people. Okay Weedon in those famous project legacy room and Bitcoin But he faced wasting. If you have one more real scenario use case you also got your specific communists in different aspects skull running for example you feel walking forces some traditionally uh Shea and industrial use case. Happy. Okay people saying okay. Seo's case we can to do that. Or maybe data exchange may be this kind of process so yes also have is pdf st a chance to debt beside it that way also have some support also kind of famous in China and Asia. That's also have house to especially this scope weakened flying mole use case and tried to call all to support to those kind of use case to be globalized So I still believe as champions. Yeah just save Conti Internet industrial. Most China Internet company is very huge American right now but Steve. Most of Western people still don't know surveys right now. Justin Tech Talk. Successful was liking recharge or union. Army Bob is not so many cities so altered and another case I think is County girl would also meet a lot of challenges right now especially currently. Maybe a trading issue comes next and also included barris situation. I think decentralized Form will have full people to do the Caucasian next face so I believe. Brought channel comes as onus as fake chance to to support to them. You'll candle go rise. Colouration Nina experts in terms of ecosystem. Collaborations you see a lot of developments with with projects in the West Z. Cash is constantly working with the theory him to original knowledge proofs In into some of the upraising. They're making you've got cosmos that has been working on interoperability between some of these different blockchain's Pocono for a while was claiming that they were not going to be competitive with therion and it was going to be more of a friendly Dynamic and and you know of course as we come under some criticism or to Of Stark on media as well. That's true when when you think about key other partners and and kind of developing this interoperable layer of crypto projects who are some of the most important groups that you work with And and have to Inter operate with successfully both today and kind of going forward and what type of Mindshare de currently give that Versus the other priorities. You have a technically or from business development standpoint conti. Most project his as Kennel based Buta Committee and a committee he teams some university pulse more teams Buta e APPs obligation Basle Nets That's important I think is important parts But for my Ponte. Also another employee you have to is caused some big partner big continent. They had already have owners best fake a skull commute e either traditional industry. Just as important. Because you only know the gaps how many DMZ slots sewing. I believe came on. Moi's better but so important. You need to have a high quality education to support the real. Scenario WAY'S BIG USA GROUP. And even big big banney scope. That's his important. Of course Besson's s process your products. Your Platform Chronicle also will be strong. He Be Healthy approved by Rio case and real approaching violent and of course is also benefits to the communities can build a decentralized occasion more easy Mosa coup. For COMPARISON INTERNET INDUSTRY THEY WILL NOT FOR EXAMPLE. Alibaba tencent facebook In the Amish also can often the for but they are not owning bathrooms air community. Okay beauty different candidates more pccasion on my pro platform will make sure my success. They shape private specific longest scopes. They likes ocean. Had Walk on ECOMMERCE passively apart for of course still have Osama small community-based ecosystem application but you have to a real big ministry medication that his ontological focused on the Basle. If just kind of location you can supported us. Convocation other company based the APPs we also benefits it can more easily and more For this part but another important Assisi's essentials ation is also important and casings. You'll need to make sure your efforts to be more essential allies more people. I mean the governor small level you need to evolve one more partner to do the calmness people just like today's you need to have a shareholder as they can do comments for the company but for the management teams. You need to focus all K- what he's BINNY'S FOR THIS COMPANY. The dissension is as a defense is a key difference with the Central Problem. Caused just to compare with resources attack Actually those kind of currently Internet player International Internet Industry Player is Far Molin brought Chin thoughts on Nation Union folks but today's technical level is Kendall. Garner's never this. Congress says more like your economic the even Paul can communist-serb economic model. People can benefits for those kind of joying. All participates the honest mode process. They were join. That is actually a defense lawyer. We don't want to make them up. And then we will multiple Cassandra rail and in Moscow in education right. Now it's one thing people could get out of this conversation and Means you're so powerful in general but in this market in particular What is the was the one line catch raise? The you'd want people to have when they think of oncology or is there one in China right now and and even more localized Or what is your favorite? You've seen today on people. Think Santa Lucia. Yes we actually kickoff from Basle from China taste already combo transparent public prompt for as the sink. Okay let's his global perform. It can do that. They have a private to a price label and a strong From this people may be I mean constantly people's Faucets Company will slow may be best. Will you come from China United States or Europe but seeing brought him water? I believe people are most Technologies you feel. Obviously transparent source even calmness processes is transparent. You're just check the technical Zaza attack knowledge. So you'll eat eaten tossed teams choice to where they come from just tossed tag orange. You can check by yourself. What I meant by. That was not necessarily that your community was confined to China but But but rather if there was like a one line meam That had taken off Where people were unable to refer to the project in short hands right so so theory was the world computer Bitcoin digital gold's does French either. Right like Some of them are serious jokes but but it has anything stock Or do you have Like a catch phrase or anything that would be memorable to help people both with a little bit of wet but also just generally speaking really cuts to the core of of how you guys are different. Yeah Yeah We. We have a handoff slogan toss to redefine the just. Maybe maybe like the apple logo is is called. Okay thank difference. Foster related is so defined. Conte on Jazz. Toss collaboration PRONTO. Decentralized impartial people. You feel want to build US profile process linked to a real I mean conti often real binny's ontological Detroit for this you not only just Egypt's economy or talking comedy but you want to real babies can move as these studies on holiday school choice define loss as tossed collaboration dissenters collaboration taunt full on is costly line. You need a new host Zane to do next face. What are you looking forward to most this year from project this year? I I'm looking for a wall and a several employment. Either Bay posthumous into a market. Where the partnership was on holiday to build it a real central supplication. I mean big is on August Sawyer. Looking for another way of St Way of crews decentralized admiral decentralisation level next one more comments people are joined a congress process as key things will focus on excellent June It's been terrific catch up with you. Were excited for the year ahead after the project and definitely appreciate taking the time to explain this to our community and allies. Maurier plants Not just this year kind of in general and how you see projects. These v all these other New blockchain experiments Which sometimes forget our bursary early on Working People find you and get warm involves with on if they're so inclined to throttle fund most OLA session and walk on encaged. You can't you can follow US attitude to to communicate with us for this Wendy tile all website and then are you or do you have a social media presence as well or mostly just stick to work and don't get stranded shorthand but Directly State her but we have a twitter account sweaters on people. Sending us is at the net. Excellent Oncology Is is also. We've got a pretty robust profile project at sorry dot. Io So Can Add on over there. Learn more about project or I out as well. June. Thanks again. Mandak watching listening. Thank you for tuning in Central Act. Thanks so next time. Thanks for listening. You episodes of unqualified opinions. Go live three days at noon. Eastern time you follow me in the meantime on twitter at two. Did you want to continue the conversation? Trolling otherwise I see you next week.

China United States Luca Luke Europe Acade- Conti Steve Kendall CRYPTO DOT twitter Massari Dot Lucas Dot Egypt Tolkien Asia Brooke Shannon
NutriMedical Report Show Friday Aug 9th 2019  Hour Two  Harley Schlanger, LaRouchePAC.com, LaRouchePUB.com, Chaos Masters GOP Dems At Work, Insane Racist Calls vs. Trump, War Drums Beat, Financial Chaos On Purpose,

NutriMedical Report

53:50 min | 1 year ago

NutriMedical Report Show Friday Aug 9th 2019 Hour Two Harley Schlanger, LaRouchePAC.com, LaRouchePUB.com, Chaos Masters GOP Dems At Work, Insane Racist Calls vs. Trump, War Drums Beat, Financial Chaos On Purpose,

"Well it's the dr phil show presented by neutral medical dot com call eight eight eight six four zero one and do call it took him to the show we want questions on topic hardly has very important story. He was actually a hosting one of the major meetings. I lose foundation last week and as major article today is extremely important. We kind of heads up with what was going on. The new york times the headline fiasco explosives dangerous insanity of anti-trump coup-plotters <hes> go ahead harley here funny kind of background wishing sound hope. It's about our skype connection to you over in berlin well i. I hope you can hear me. The story is really it. There's a new phase in the anti-trump operations which the british and the obama intelligence networks felt compelled to launch given the collapse in the muller story that russia gate story and also the reinvigorated trump trump a peace initiative coming out of the socket g twenty meeting at the end of june. President trump had his meeting with kim jong meet with putin he met with president gee of china and laid out with the three of them have strategy for peace in the korean peninsula for arms negotiations with the russians and the chinese and also an extended trade operation with china. Now what happened is that there was a decision made by the city of london leaders and their wall street allies that they could not allow this to occur the fact that the muller option collapsed sent them in a different direction and what we're seeing now is a global destabilization nation which might call an operation chaos which includes the dangerous possibility of a nuclear war between india and pakistan it includes food the the escalation going on on the south korean peninsula although trump and kim jong moon did talk today or they they did exchange letters in there seems to be emotion there. It includes the efforts of some in the trump administration to sabotage the potential for talks with china. It includes the shutting down of the i._m._f. Treaty with russia the intermediate nuclear forces treating all of these things put us on a much quicker course toward war and then of course there's also the reemergence of the lunatic john bolton whose issuing congrats against iran against venezuela and all of this is occurring while president trump is having to deal with the after effects of the mass shootings that took place in el paso in dayton right now what we're looking at on this and i know there are people out there who you think these are false flags and have all sorts of theories about it but what's important about it is that they're all these what you might call sleeper cells house of people who are potentially triggered to carry out mass murder people who've been psychologically profiled who were on watch lists the best example that is the parkland florida shooting that the the f._b._i. Had him on their radar and did nothing nothing to investigate him so we do know that the shooter in dayton was someone who had shown up on on various law enforcement reports ports of but nothing was done so that these things could take place. What's important about that. Is that this then. Dan unleashed the democratic candidates and the media to go after trump in a preprogrammed attack as racist just as a white nationalist as a white supremacist as a nazi attacking ice the immigration <hes> agency as a bunch of fascists running concentration camps but all of these things were put out there very ugly accusations mutations against trump designed to provoke him so that instead of being able to pay attention to the broader picture right. He's have to stamp camp out these little forest fires that are burning around him. Now what i took as the lead to that is this new york times speiss which came out and said trump speaks out against racism which was surprising enough. The new york times comes at an honest headline and within an hour there was an incredible uproar from the candidates from other journalists saying that the new york times should not have been sympathetic to trump. That trump was insincere. Dan rather came out and said that we should never report report with trump says but what is intentions are as if dan rather can somehow divine what the intentions president trump are and so the the did everything they could to put him on the defensive and then when trump responded back at this. They said here's trump attacking democratic opponents. They launched it. I mean biden said that trump is a racist of elizabeth warren said he is a <hes> a the <hes> white supremacist as debater work better work basically said trump is the new hitler so of course trump's going to react to that but here's the other final title interesting point. We'll get the two shooters the one no paso while he did in his if he did right that manifesto infest oh what it does say is some very nasty things about hispanics but it also sounds more like akhazia cortez than it does trump right. It's as there are too many people that were defiling the environment the title he chose for his manifesto is the inconvenient truth which is a play on the words words of an inconvenient truth. Which was i'll i'll documentary. That was the documentary true for. He tried to run for president years ago. Almost made it yeah up which is basically a a bunch of fake science saying that we're destroying the planet here of supposed- right being <hes> <hes> nazi racist who's quoting the line that comes from cossio cortez from gore from the radical environmentalists then you look at the dayton shooter and what's clear is it is an anti-trump in fact. He said he's closer to elizabeth. Elizabeth warren and bernie sanders trump made an interesting point. He said i would never blame sanders or warren for what he did or even or even <hes> sanders for the shooter tried to kill one of our congresspeople said sali's so p people need to realize that when you start making making connections don't exist in common sense decency a reality you start to get a loser based on insanity and is purpose behind it because these masters of chaos want to balkanize a break out by by race by religion by different political group because that way they can maintain chaos and no solution to any problem so this present is not a solution isn't please continue. It's classic geopolitics because there's one other factor lurking behind all of this which is a special report that larouche pac is just putting together now on the escalation of the green movement the environmentalist almost movement with the fried age for future with the extinction rebellion which the extinction rebellion by the way is about to become a terrorist operation of a left greening terrorist operation but what's the reality you know who funds these groups billionaires. There's people like george soros the same people who funded the coup in ukraine the same people who fund the anti iran and policy the same people funding the anti-china anti russia policy the same people who worked <hes> with a <hes> christopher steele in promoting the anti-trump policy are also the environmentalists and so when you see these interconnections what you see is you should not get trapped in any of the specific fights as as tempting as it is to try to prove the point instead go oh to the whole picture. This is a financial elite which is desperate which is hysterical. They're terrified that trump will work with vision paying hang in putin to move the united states into a new financial system. You know we're coming up on. What is it the forty eighth anniversary of the august fifteenth nineteen seventy-one deal which took the dollar off gold and broke the fixed exchange-rate fide it will get something moving back in what direction well let me give a couple of bullet points and i want you to expand on it. Larus foundation with your genius lyndon larouche recently died later a template get rid of glass steagle. Put the glass-steagall bail back into to wall off people's investments. Make sure we have a international currency standard. It gets rid of tariff and non-tariff barriers so we locked in currencies. We don't have any nation including china. Manipulating currencies were dropping down to counteract tear tariffs. <hes> set up a system to protect intellectual property so wherever's developed it saved and make sure that we don't have toxic products coming in from any nation cooling aspartame coming in from genie motel in japan <hes> when we do this belt and road program becomes on a chinese program but an international not just for america but every nation and then nations like central america can have increased industry industry we get rid of the drug cartels by getting sponging nam at the same time. We need to rebuild our economy so that people don't wanna move out and i think that the solutions was it. Lyndon talked about including missile defense where share it with our potential enemies and where we share an international trade rules on the sea and on the land <hes> then we we can actually shore up and protect the earth from extinction event caused by poisoning the ocean benthic layer phytoplankton convert carbon dioxide auction and these global maniacs wanna get rid of beef. They wanna get rid of cows and sheep. They wanna get rid of all ruminating animals or say. It's more dangerous to the earth and more likely to cause the death of the planet if you don't stop eating meat ain't so in germany where you live they want to raise taxes on meet nineteen point nine percent and <hes> locally they're calling for the end of meek are this is an example of people and by the away. They're not interested in the environment. They'll use a pseudo environmental garbage. They want totalitarian control which means he let me tell you what we discovered. Which is the real kicker to this right ninety. That's coming in is through a green financial institute which was set up by top officials shows. The city of london including a man named schmidt who is the chief is the chief economic adviser to miracle but these are the ones who were saying that the only way you're going to get a green policy adopted is if you make it palatable to the global financial interests this and how do they do that by channeling whatever available credit there is into the financial bubble and the newest bubble is the carbon carbon bubble. The carbon credits carbon risk factors right. It's the next forum of derivatives and they are working together with people in the federal reserve bank of england the european central bank to lower interest rates not to provide credit to industry to physical physical production to small and medium enterprises but to provide money that will be laundered through these green credits that will end up backing up the worthless financial instrument sitting on the books of these banks and so this whole as you say. It's not about the environment at all. It's about protecting a worthless and broken down financial system by killing people like you said a germany. They're not only saying you shouldn't eat meat. They're doing things that will make agriculture less efficient. They're doing things that will mean. You won't be able to ship products anywhere. They'll be whole sections of the world that we left without food and right away. Returning to the pre industrial age seventeen fifty will reduce the carrying capacity of the plan to lessen the billion people which means most people will die there by the way their intent is to replace the lower classes with sidewalks genetically engineered fetal visas that have chippenham to control them and they wanted to genetic several etiquette has been over the higher class of so-called super elite they have extended lifespans that connection to the supernet alevis lifespans an i._q. That's where they're going. The chance humanist maniacs at the top of the pole level druidic satanists and people don't understand that their gender agenda has nothing to do with the environment. They're not going to do anything to stop mass ejection destroying the power grid or protect the ozone layer or protect the environment from organisms tourism's dying from human caused or natural causes events accustom extinction event. They're not interested. They only want to preserve their control and their financial control of the world world which includes getting rid of ninety percent of us well and it includes now. They're targeting airplanes targetting airports. It's going to become if the german government has its way. There's going to be twenty to thirty percent increase tax on on jet transportation aw tencent leader tax abilene. They're trying to force everybody to go by train to the plane. Even when <hes> this doesn't make sense at all and the newer planes now by the way very efficient and don't generate a lot of pollution and don't damage the ozone layer back in a moment with more again remember. This is evil. This not just green is able back in a moment. Do you have have difficulty taking supplements. 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That's aaa two one two eight eight seven one or neutral medical michael dot com and listen to the mission medical report on the genesis radio network with over lines every weekday neutral medical dot com bringing nutrition and medicine together and welcome back <hes> harley continue with your analysis of the situation <hes> we're not looking at maybe months and years away remarkable rate now craziness is going on and the caste masters are actually increasing the danger of something chaotic. Hey out of cabinet reciprocate thermonuclear chemical biological scaler weather warfare. <hes> russia and china asian should be natural allies. China is our biggest customer and our biggest contributor right now the trade war that's going on the shaking the stock market we need to actually move toward stabilizing the the the the same thing to do for the big tech business and so on with the middle class lower classes trump was trying to step by step bringing plans to help healthcare to help portability transparency and international trade basically will stabilize economy of the world and prevent nuclear war <hes> and we need to work kodak were s lyndon larouche said for defense verse strategy of income. We had <hes> we can half ago. A city crasher meteorologist pastor says cronin credibly near space within striking distance of the planet. We need to be ready for lots of things. Including across all mass ejection from the sun summer solar and galactic changes even earth changes such as listen spirit destruction any <hes> major super quakes caused by the crust of the earth moving on the mantle which does periodically we're not ready for anything and we need to collaborate all nations for international trade to save the human race from disaster. This isn't happening right now. With globalist on the left and the right the two legged beast the people around around trump needs to fire ray he new sexy move to get rid of mr lightning bolt bolton and other maniacs wanna beat the war drums and the chaos masters going crazy because their attempt was mueller that mueller look like a senior citizen. I was having a bad day at the interview where he had hit his name on the document but didn't write it. This is getting a very dangerous isn't it. Well it is dangerous. It's dangerous in the sense that the ability to avoid roy war requires active measures of cooperation and as you move away from that as you threaten china as the new defense secretary terry the united states did by saying well now that we're no longer in the intermediate range nuclear treaty we may put intermediate range nuclear weapons all targeting china china on these are the kinds of statements which the chinese read and they say look we saw wearing to work together and now you're threatening us now the really <music> the crux of the matter though i wanna go back to this re talking about right before the break is the weakness of the financial system and because because of the twenty twenty election and because president trump has not accomplished what he intended to do as you pointed out with bringing back back in glass steagle the the so called rich four laws the glass steagle banking separation a national credit policy that would provide low interest credit to producers users major push infrastructure to build new platforms of infrastructure including high speed rail energy systems and so on and then a science alliance driver in particular the ones that larouche identified were space program and nuclear fusion if you were to do that and do that in coordination shen with the scientific community in russia and china in germany in france and italy then you'd have the capability the of addressing the things you were just talking about the dangers we face from space as well as the dangers we face from neoconservative lunatics on this planet. I want to take away your meat and the ones that actually want to get rid of internal combustion engines and aircraft. I mean did this during the earth to the pre industrial age would kill most of the people on the planet but that's their intention and they're the same people by the way in the regulatory agencies. We talked what f._s._i. European food safety agency and kodak's when we have our scott tips from codex phreatic the actually allowing toxins into our food supply that sterilizes reduce i._q. Reduced fertility cause feminization of males all awesome by design. It's not just stupidity is by design in it's evil and people need to start grasping conspiracy theory. We have tons of documentation to prove that don't we let me just go through this financial situation for people to have a sense of it since trump was not able to do what he campaigned to do. He's been forced to do a repeat of what obama did what hillary clinton did which is to say that the stock market appreciation is proof of a good economy now in his heart of hearts. President trump knows that's wrong wrong is that's what he said when he was running against hillary about obama's recovered covered right the fact that the stock market was going up when all the money that was being produced by the bailouts and the quantitative easing using was going to the money center thanks who were loaning it to their blue chip clients to buy back their own stock blowing up the stock market. There was a forty percent drop in small banks and forty percent increase in the size of the megabanks supported by us paying off a giant debt by allowing m._d. Splitter and now the last four years. I can't even make a dollar even with the bubble economy so this is extremely dangerous. We needed somebody with a hat pin economically and the to pop. We're gonna hear popping sound economies. The world are going to collapse well. It's sixty percent. It's all been based on a sixty percent increase in corporate debt on on a slightly smaller increase in both government debt and personal debt and we know this in terms of the automobile sales in terms of housing using figures and so on but the obvious point is that if you're concerned about a deficit than borrowing in to protect worthless instruments that are part of the deficit isn't a solution. The solution is you've got to separate out those debt instruments that will never be paid off because the companies are bankrupt. There's zombie companies. There's a turn now circulating in europe two terms one is called the banks banks that are essentially dead but they're being kept alive by quantitative easing and then the other term. That's a surfaced again. What is this actually came out of. The federal reserve the men's ski moment referring to an economist named minsk who said that all of a sudden seemingly out of the blue. Oh you can have a twenty or thirty percent correction in stocks but this would not be an anomaly. This would be a natural condition because the market was overpriced overpriced now when the bankers are talking about these things you know they're nervous add to this. No one knows exactly what boris johnson awesome is gonna do with brexit and what effect that will have on european banks. No one knows what will happen with the federal reserve which is being whipsawed by president trump on the one inside and on the other side economists saying you cannot lower interest rates now because it will produce inflation so the old standard monitoring federal jimmy yup these standard monetary theory mob. What's called m. may or m. T. modern monetary theory doesn't work one of my someone. I talked to quite often william white light former chief economist for the bankrate national settlements has said that we've entered a zone where the old theories and the old computer programs and algorithms and the quantification programs they don't explain what's going on and under those circumstances doubling down doing more of the same makes no sense whatsoever but that's all they're doing now in contrast. The chinese have latched onto onto what we used to do invest in physical economy. If you take on a debt for building something that will produce and will produce use more efficiently even if you can't sell all the product in the short term you're adding value to the overall economy and what that means agnes's that the debt can be essentially covered at some point in the future as opposed to if you're borrowing money to give it to be banks to protect worthless assets on their books that can never work so we have to completely different systems to completely completely different monetary theories and unless we break with the old theory and take what worked in the immediate postwar were period the bretton woods system fixed exchange rates the investment in science and technology and research and development in upgrading the workforce unless unless we invest in that with with cheap credit. There's nothing wrong with cheap credit. It's just depending on where it goes if we do that. We'll see a spark globally that will be bigger than what the united states experienced under john kennedy with his investment tax credit and his nasa and and <hes> is overall investment policy so that's something that's clear but it's only clear to a handful of people and a big part of my job and this is what i do every day on radio programmes and writing in speaking at conferences is making making these points to people who are policy makers who otherwise are sitting in a closed system. That's not working well economic theory. That doesn't make sense. I mean and there's different economic theory right. They're afraid to go outside of that closed system. It's the same thing is true when you're dealing with resources sources if you believe that it's a closed system then the more efficient you are the more rapidly us up the resources but the universe. It's not a closed system. It's a self expanding system which occurs just naturally. There's a natural dynamic in the physical universe. The allows development but man is ruefully creatives can advance that process even faster and further exam. There's a there's. There's a couple of things that are happening next few years number one a._i. Soon <hes> supercomputers will be smarter than the average even superior you in thinking one hundred billion times faster number two. We are about to get off of her so we're going to start expanding to what's called the belt between mars and jupiter. Now i happen to know from my comment and my super secret classified to access the already have advanced space activity that the is not open to the public. That's why we've gone. We basically supposed to be gone dark. We've had tokamak fusion energy for over sixty years in fact i actually said for almost ten years how to build a tokamak fusion reactor the chinese not being full of crap like the nasa and m._r. space agencies said five years ago they signed thirty five hundred scientists and the chinese plan on mining helium three from the moment and putting tokamak reactors because they're smart enough enough enough voter classified information to make tuck maxine. Plasma reactor is really simple. You have to jets approaching the speed of light heading each other with helium three and you created plasma field and you draw power off it is almost limitless energy star power and we can do this now the same as we can start reminding <hes> the large objects objects in what's called the asteroid belt just like the movie the this mini series on prime called the expanse and pretty soon we could start tear forming plants like titan the moon around jupiter and ria for reforming mars and giving it an atmosphere. These things are things that we can do and in fact if you don't spread out into space and just standards the chances chances are we're lucky to be extinguished. We need actually start moving out in our thought process and in our culture to tear for other objects in our solar system and start thinking about other planets habitable across the cosmos and we don't that's the idea that's the idea in breaking with this idea that we live in a closed system right on the earth and then also was this on terms of intellect and ideas for example rusada ideas that make financial sense and it goes back to things hamiltonian ism which made america great when we couldn't get material for looms tax you may close remake guns america invented a new economic economic system of invention the loves her own industrial revolution here in america and the same ideas chinese picked up and that's why in two thousand eight when clap happening we reinvested in banks with the bubble economy the chinese build infrastructure. That's why they have what twenty thousand miles of high speed rail. It's gonna be around forty five thousand and the ad took technology from bombarded by in quebec and high speed rail in europe and advanced in another eater ninety kilometers per hour and they have new patented technology algae which if we wanted to build high speed rail. We need a contract with the chinese engineers to build it here. We should start from scratch. It makes sense to have their engineers. Come over to train our engineers like they do build rail stations and other countries outside china to build connections to the belt and road system the chinese don't have this imperial attitude like we do invest. They want trade. They want to sell they wanna make stuff worse. They wanna make money and we had a delegation from china. Come by our office last week. In berlin the german two german government officials about why the germans are going along with the european union opposing this and it was a very very fascinating discussion because they're very conscious of the degree to which they've adopted some elements of western all economic thinking they go back before the modern period to hamilton to <hes> friedrich list who is an associate of some of hamilton's friends win over to germany and built the customs union right engine bay. They're so smart they've actually filtered good things. We've done and they've actually done it and we stopped doing it. That's what's amazing. Our cultural last few hundred years invented the technology and economic systems. They adopted us and we've forgotten it. Isn't that strange strange. Are you still still looking for that. 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The body of all known pathogens restores it to an alkaline state and even promote them cell regeneration asian quarter doctor bills new today at triple eight to one to seventy one or visit us online at neutral medical dot com red deer velvet d._r. is an amazing new product with a patent to preserve reenter bio-molecules in six months same as fetal life where you don't aged at all the state of fetal life allows the three hundred bio-molecules and six hormones produced by the placenta to be supportive of the re generation of tissues and organs was maximum eight pop doses are changing the structure of a fetus. That's why s- fetal surgery is performed. There is no scar taking a two to three capsules twice. A day was uncle mason michael d to <hes> provides an amazing support for regeneration regeneration any tissue and organ on the body even advanced stem cell therapy support treatment do get newt medicals red deer velvet d._r. from dr building dramatic traumatic dot com and not our medical dot com triple eight to unto eighty-one stay well and stay young was for medical hi. I'm dr bill beagle m._d. A. m. a. c. A. m a forum of neutral medical dot com and a consultant providing email advice free an advanced protocols dolls for your optimize wellness and advanced technologies to heal and regenerate you. He didn't contact us at neutral medical dot com. 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Extend your telomeres etc. We have life support. The detox is face to detox pathways glueck burana dacian sulfate and methylation pathway support. We have glycemic some blocks of carbohydrate absorption helpful flip diabetes or weight loss as well helps with people. They're trying to build up muscle using things like our special formulas from dr wolf call mega muscles between meals along with sports energy like we have the amazing to complete the most complete red green drink in the world the best most feel real flavor. You can often mix it to with better. Mineral mec switches are fruit flavored mixed power of vitamin. Stay well with neutral medical every day. I remember hello and welcome back to the airport early. Please continue. I mean i mean these are solutions to the problems. They're not just kind of playing around the edges of and a lot of these solutions around for decades with her with yourself at harley schlesinger with lyndon russian the entire team such as <hes> you know all the great people that understand we need to start looking at the underlying causes any winning strategies go back sometimes hundred years to hamiltonian business practices etc so please continue while i was talking with the missiles larouche the other day and she made a very important point she said the most powerful weapon being deployed by the enemies of the american system is pessimism is to induce a sense of hopelessness so that people are on alan stuck with his attitude that there's nothing you can do that. They are too powerful. They control everything and we're just going to go on with. Our miserable lives lives now. It's interesting if you look at this question of the mass shootings in the united states virtually every one of the alleged shooters is someone who is someone who's depressed twos antisocial and of course we know they're huge numbers of people like that in fact. That's one of our biggest products of our culture right. Now is is demoralized and pessimistic young people who <music>. I just read a study that said that one in three millennials identifies themselves as lonely that loneliness is they're the most most common trait and you know when you're in your twenties and thirties this is when you should be your most social when you're looking for friends and and people to talk to and share ideas with and if all the ideas that you share our in your cell phone and social networking working then you're not communicating with people and so we've created an environment and trump made this comment the other day witness in his initial prepared comments about the shootings where he brought up gruesome and grisly video games as contributing exactly well mmediately the media which of course is a front for the companies have produced these games came out and said there's no evidence to prove that it's a false false statement a little story here i took care of me and they had the atari games and they were worried about at causing inability to turn off the kill reflects in my pilot's i took care of twenty five years ago air force academy so grab slightly cracked rosen video games and these gruesome movies like the latest one. That's coming out in two months so-called hunt. These should not be allowed today. Well bill what i was gonna say is that at the same moment that the media is saying saying there's no evidence that this can't be backed up that many people watch play these video games and don't go out and kill which is a false equivalence the way they're presenting it right but virtually every single one of the shooter's is addicted to these video games including the dayton shooter according to is associates associates are acquaintances. He spent much of his time playing these violent video games while high on methamphetamines but now you add add to this the drug problem the opioid problem and what you see is that there's a growing number of people who have succumbed to a sense of of demoralization pessimism of their reports coming out about growing numbers of teens who are depressed we see it in terms terms and the suicide rates across all different age groups and most importantly the the united states is now in a negative did demographic curve that for the first time and i think in our history we're seeing a reduction in life expectancy. I can tell you exactly why i am an expert on in functional integrative pathology which is ball's you living and i talked about it every day for the first hour of the show and i can do imaging tests so i can do blood tests toxic algae quantitative electron grams. I know exactly why aged shortened mineral depleted soil toxic pesticides like roundup toxic g._m._o. Food talks get a radiation smirk rid of power grid and now toxic five g. network atta toxic culture where the balkanized breaks up by race and sex and different orientations toxic political systems that are failure both sides trump is trying but he's surrounded himself. A lot of people like mr rain the f._b._i. John lightening bolt mccollum others that are basically caste masters on the right and then we have the maniacs in the left like how stroh even releases the donors for republicans republicans and expects that this is okay this is not this is not civil society anymore. It's very uncivil. Isn't it well. They're building up a polarization which they're blaming on the president's rhetoric when the president for the most part is reacting to crises that were created before he became the president exactly you have this whole discussion about <hes> mass killings. <hes> you know at the present what we're seeing is with each presidential term. An increase in the frequency of mass killings defined as more than four people killed at one event. Now there are thirty seven of these that occurred during obama's presidency. Does anyone say obama's responsible for that. You you know the the argument that the trump attacks mexicans in in one of his speeches for years ago as as rapists coming across our border that this is triggering a growth of <hes> racist hatred of the racist hatred is there in the culture rights there in in the sense that if you take people who are losing their their economic security losing their sense of identity and then parade around people who are seemingly benefiting at their expense what you do is you create this kind of identity culture jewish people identify with their own kind against the other yeah by the way this is hispanic people losing jobs against illegal hispanics at about one percent or less are criminals like m._s. Thirteen violent drug or human traders in fact he now by children <hes> online in central america and mexico so they could bring 'em across. I actually get into the country and then become part of the drug. Cartels people need to understand the solution to this is very straightforward. We'll talk about this in the next hour with dr betty martini a bit but i want people understand. They pretended there's no solution to these problems. When people like yourself harley and linden and other ones like myself and others we found on the show. The solutions are straightforward great forward reasonable decent and constitutionally supported for example. I want a red flag box in every school and every public place. I want people to easily be evaluated waited if they have a psychiatric problem knock on season or guns but if this young man had anyone percent of these people committed mass murder. They were obviously mentally ill intact. Apparently the school shooter in dayton apparently cleared the school. I think about less than a year earlier because it's not the kids come to school to kill all the kids in the school. Why was this kid allowed to have anything sharper within the pencil. Why was he allowed to walk around not being a psychiatric institution same with the people that this guy <hes> wrote. This supposedly wrote this thing here now l. paso these people are mentally ill. They're they're. They're nursed on toxic video games and toxic movies. They're sick in the head their biochemistry she is our brain just think of it as the liver in your head and we wonder why we have violence. We have a sick culture with a population of more more organ and organ damage caused by toxic vaccines etcetera and aspartame into their now putting by the way in the third hour. We're gonna talk about this. They're putting a splendid and aspartame even in vape so we're getting seizures and the investigating the seizures and one other studies caused by aping with aspartame in splendor in the vaping mini-van purposes not by chance it's not because they're ignorant is because they're evil and the globalist including super castro and all the democratic candidates and many rhino republicans they wanna maintain chaos they wanted to have more with russia and china. They don't want to stabilize things and build toys and work collaboratively under projects to extend human lifespan of the bush republicans. It's true of the clinton and obama democrats exactly and because of the power of the corporate media as well as the lobbyists awesome the people who contribute the bankers the insurance companies are big pharma and so on there's a fear of speaking against it and you see one person for example in the democratic gang who speaking against it is tulsi gabbard and what what how is she identified as an assad odd apologised virtually call her a work criminal because she went and talked to bashar al-assad and she says look how can we make soclean. Don't know what people are thinking insane exactly and even know bashar assad is history the white hats in britain made up the game and story orien- lie that assad was chemically attacking his own people already wanna war against the taliban and the and the terrorists in this country and <hes> you know he's a doctor from england had to take over this. His brother was an alcoholic and was not able to take over the state of syria and he's got a british wife. I mean he would be an ally to america to stabilize to notice that israel but everything there same way as the new princeton saudi arabia. I'm sure he wasn't involved volve with this killing of this guy and cutting him up dissolving flash. I guarantee from the comments here. That'll be proved that this young prince was against lobbyism which is being spread by the british by the way started in nineteen twenty s and exported back to saudi arabia to weaponize saudi arabia again when they selected the british selected the the saad family to be their proxies saudi arabia over seventy nine other royal families. People don't understand this history today. They don't know the british are behind the scenes for a lot of evil. Let me just say that. People go to the larouche pac dot com website right. We're developing now this whole story about the insanity of the green revolution coming or word with this <hes> gratitude berg fridays for future the children's crusade where they're taking children who don't owe anything anything and saying to them. Your parents were criminals because they use a gasoline in their cars. You know they're they're crawl youngest longest who don't like hitler youth isn't it. It's like taking gelatin telling your parents because they have a gasoline powered engine or the fly in an airplane they're criminal killing alling planet earth and and they're trying to train them up with pseudoscience and tournament to like a a you know a shock force of environmental evil not because has a care about the earth because of the appalachian calling them the children's crusade is is applicable because this is what happened when the church sent children to their death supposedly to reconquer jerusalem and nike goes to the twelfth century so what we're seeing is the worst form orm of oligarchy barbarism all portraying itself as concern for the environment concern for the people who have the least and and yet the people who are funding this are the ones who have stolen from the poorest people on the planet who are tied to the british empire the city of london it and i think people should go to the larouche pac dot com website look at the videos. We've posted look at the daily articles. If you want to get my blog page on the pack site send me an email and i'll send you the link and you can get it by sending it to me at harley s. c. h. At g mail dot com that's h. A. r. l. e. y. S. c. h. a. g. mail dot com. Just tell me your email that you heard this on bill. De gaulle will show and i'll be happy to send you for free a link to my site where i post articles every week. What i see happening is a glorious future sure but it says in the bible my people perish for lack of a with vision and linden had a vision. It's biblically correct vision. It's a vision that says man man energy flux density man as co creator of the future of the human race. It's god's destiny as you talk about the marriage supper of the lamb that when god returns turns he's going to return for a bride human race who's now sanctified and decent and has dialogue when discussed problems until i find solutions whether it's environmental or health solutions who in return two years of mankind we can protect yours from incoming asteroids and comets and crawl mass ejections by hurting our power grid we can create unlimited energy with fusion energy in great st he printers and factories that are clean we use coal and other means of generating fuel that don't generate any pollution we can harden martin the plankton the upper benthic layer so we can recycle carbon monoxide oxygen. We can protect earth from incoming radiation but you know it's going to require collaboration collaborations require international trade and understanding. We're like the close finger of a hand. Each nation russia china america elect the fingers of the hand and that's been a fixed us. That's why felton rove like the ancient silk. Road is so essential for a world safer everyone in every living thing on the planet the go-to larousse p._a._c. dot com get all these videos and so on a ruse pubic dot com hurley f. c. h. Edgy mail dot com. Thanks a lot harley. Amazing show is always next week dr betty martinez next and she got some mazing documents here about vaping seizures blend on aspartame with these new vaping materials. You don't wanna miss it. We'll be back in a moment.

bernie sanders trump united states president china russia america dayton lyndon larouche germany obama london The new york times elizabeth warren harley china berlin europe murder iran
Phenomenally Good

Baseball Tonight with Buster Olney

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Phenomenally Good

"You in settle for a two star spin class a personal trainer, would you? So why settle for Bank that treats you just like another number? Ally knows you deserve better and their mission is to be just that. And with ally Bank. You'll get interest rates up to twenty times the national average you can chat with real people twenty four seven, and they won't nutmeg you with hidden fees allies team actually cares about doing right by you and your money so go to A L L Y dot com for more ally Bank, member FDIC. Baseball tonight, the podcast. This is the baseball tonight podcast for Monday relate to thousand nineteen. I'm BUSTER only filling in for Josh macrey on Monday. We'll be Mr. Daniel Stanisic stands occa- doing today. I'm good BUSTER. My Blue Jays already comfortably in last place. So the season is off and running. Yeah. But you have a chance to affect the Red Sox season. Because you know that Red Sox fans are so anxious and they get to be there for the ring ceremony, Tuesday and Wednesday. And if they could win those two games, you can bet Red Sox fans would be very upset. It's April eighth in. We're already excited about playing spoiler. Let's go. And this is a baggage claim Monday at the Denver airports. It is we're taping. It's about five forty and you can hear the airline calls behind me. Typical baggage claim Monday. In other words, stands that guy. Obey quiz and a question for you. As we get ready today. A do, you know, why this date is famous in baseball history? I don't, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me I don't even want to embarrass myself with a guest, April eighth nineteen seventy four Hank. Aaron it's a home run number seven fifteen in his career to break. Then record a Babe Ruth. Okay. Pretty pretty big day. All right. I you know, I've seen it. Okay. And my question for you. Are you a coffee drinker? I am. Okay. So then you can appreciate my issue at the moment. I am doing this podcast just flying without coffee. Okay. I'm a regular coffee drinker. But there's a rush to get out the door. It was a short night. We had a late game at the dodgers and Rockies was like four and a half hours got about three and a half hours sleep had to rush out the door catch the cab. So it could be ready to do baggage. Claim Monday podcast, and I didn't get a coffee, and it's an issue. I don't know how you're doing this. I I know you're about ready to talk about bravery and courage because you're a coffee drinker you understand on on a maze. I'm amazed impressed. Okay. Speaking of that game last night, the dodgers are rolling, and they blew out the Rockies again to complete a sweep Cody Bellinger is red hot one Mellon swings. Drive deep right-field, no doubt her. He hit that one at time into the second deck in right field. Seventh home run for Cody Bellinger, twelve five dodgers that was Roxy Bernstein on ESPN radio. And before the game. Our guys got a chance to catch up with the Cody Bellinger, you'll hear that interview in a little bit think about this. So far this season. He's hitting four fifty five. The dodgers are killing the ball. And we're going to be talking about them with Tim Kirch in the Astros face, the as and Jose altuve bay walked it off. Macy's loaded to outside of the night. Eighteen. Three. Oh. Cy Paul four has go through the Astros a walk off dying. Hey, Robert, Ford KVM e seven ninety AM the Red Sox face the Diamondbacks Red Sox desperately trying to get some traction. They got good pitching and Mitch Moreland came through. Mitch anyone high hitting one Detroit field goes to the track? Adam Jones there at the wall. He leaked going to bring it in. And I think he did. Or did he he showing the glow? The Mitch looks to hit the home run. He did not come down with it. Mitch Moreland circle the basics and the Red Sox have a one nothing lead. Josh Lewin w e ninety three point seven FM. Meanwhile, the Yankees have turned things around playing in Baltimore. Gary Sanchez head a huge for the Yankees. Bit smith. Features the game. Another more. Eleven. Michael k on the yes network fifteen to three the final score there afterwards. Aaron Boone was asked Zere. Gary Sanchez getting hot I feel like he said a number of balls, actually, really. Well, you know, he sat some it. That's where he's had the strike out or or whatever. But he said two or three balls at have been close to homers going back to the home stand. Even so I feel like he's been really close. I feel like he's been on a lot of pitches. And you know, obviously today was to clueless pretty big. Phillies face twins at home, and Reese Hoskins came through for Philadelphia in the bottom of the six the three to swing and a high fly left field fairly deep desire Uh-oh is back to the track at the wall. Leaping. Reas- Hoskins wins the battle to run the whole just clearing the wall over the three seventy four signed. It's too. Got France ski sports radio ninety four w I p. Satterfield team. Off the day. The game of the day took place in Pittsburgh, the pirates facing the Cinncinnati-based reds and Dirk Dietrich came to the plate in the top of the second inning against Chris Archer one. Oh pitch. Swung. That's tattooed. This is a two to one ballgame. Cincinnati as Derek day-trip hit it way out of here to right center field quite being the river. He hit that baby. And it climbed out of here right now is impressive home. Run is a one that Adam Frazier hit leading off the pirate. I not in the same league with this one. So Dietrich has his second and the reds have a one run lead in the second. So bomb. It was an absolute bomb that edge describing Marty Brennaman Jeff Brantley and seven hundred wwl w it landed in the Allegheny river and Derek Jeter stood on plate for a long time watching that home run. And that was the reason why this happened in the top of the fourth inning Chris Archer to face Dietrich again. And he throws the ball all the way to the backstop behind the tree. And boy, David bell is livid. He is all over home plate empire. Jeff Kellogg in here. Come the vincis. David bell was the first one out, and he lost his mind. He's being held back by his own players. Now, there's a whole lot of pushing and shoving. Yeah. And the reason why David bell was upset was because both teams were warned by home plate at the home played unpire against future retaliation, David bell fell. Like, look if that's the way you felt this pitch by Chris Archer was thrown behind the hitter. Why didn't you Jecht him? This is what it sounded like on Pittsburgh radio. Sports radio ninety three point seven the fan. Dirk Dietrich who stood and admired his two run shot. In the second survey had some words for him. When he crossed home plate leads off your against Chris Archer in the fourth little long in the post after hitting. No. And the pitch is thrown behind him and the home plate empire will warn Archer and both benches now, Jeff Kellogg and right away. David bell sprints out of the dugout. He is in the face of the whole plate up higher. Now. Both benches will empty benches are emptying UCLA going to be held back by Josh bell. And now the bullpen is coming in. There's a scrum. In front of the mound. Yechiel quake is being pulled away by Joey Votto, Matt Kemp trying to play peacemaker. It was as if yes he was trying to take on the entire reds team. He would turn out to be one of five players ojected in this incident along with David bell. Amir Garrett to Pittsburgh Pirates county Kayla and Felipe Vasquez. Now his game continued Josh bell. Got a big hit for the pirates the bottom of the fifth. There's a line drive toward right field. And that's false. They hit the warning track and bounce up against the wall. One run in Belen. The second corps will hold survelliance third. Josh bell. Doubles home. Frazier and the pirates take a five three lead in the fifth in Pittsburgh would win this game seven to five the conversation afterward, of course, was about that bench-clearing incident. Here is the SEO plea replaying his view of the fight. We saw the free speech talk to the one of my teammates hand willing to go outside and the fans teammates, and he do. People says something by here at home wrong and watching the bowl going. Ness. No, more baseball and saved valley and the players as he's going throw the ball is you're going through the bowl Ma saying nothing and the ball ball like a one people watching the mall going far away or do about like I do before. And then I IB tried twister king. Now, the guy no right to to hit the guy because we can train you back because we can hit you with the by or nothing, you know. On the spot on the games people going over there and take it so serious that things and tried to hit the also a friend. We're hitting home them. Hang one things. Die action. Like a weed Rapson today. Chris Archer was asked about that pitch behind the back of Derek Dietrich. Obviously fat my fastball ends and stuff. I'm working on the whole season since last season. And you know, throw him a pitch middle away. He's able to extend his arm. So I was trying to go in. And I mean airmailed a couple balls today. Couple of hours trying to elevate coupla yanked when righties are up there. And it was another one that I just yanked me that's on the one that that started. I'm saying I think that. Yeah. Just I've missed Misbah. Yes. So stands you buying that. He just lost control the ball. Chris Archer check in the box at all pitchers really should check. When they're asked about what their intent. Was it? Just gotta wait for me. He talked about Derek digger Dietrich standing at home plate to watch his home run. Run too much in your mind. He there was some admiration. They're definitely I think that's for you guys are judges fair by also judge like we just talked about. I was trying to stay focused on the game. You know and things the kind of get out of hand. But I was just happy to to punch him out to times after that. He talked about how the fight pumped up the pirates rough stuff happened skirmishes happened benches clear all the time in baseball. How does that maybe galvanize a team a little bit when moments like today happen? I don't know. Exactly. But definitely put a spark in our offense because the following inning. J B hidden in the furthest balls I've ever seen with my is. You know, milky was doing his thing. Jamar was doing his thing. I mean, the middle of our lineup and Antop Frazier did his thing and Martin got a nice triple stand up, so just altogether. We look really good today. Rejoice TIMMY time this great game. Or what with tin kurkin on baseball tonight. And Tim coaching covers baseball for ESPN. And I know Tim when I threw a quiz question to to you're going to know the answer to this quiz. Why is this date so important in baseball history? April eight. April eighth is on come on. This is Hank. God. This is Hank. Oh, thank God. I'm so relieved that you got it last year stands the top of the show standing not getting it. I get it. But you this is like one of the most monumental days in our lifetimes BUSTER, I was watching the game. I remember exactly where I was what I was doing. When all this happened. The story that probably everyone knows now's the Tom house caught that home run ball K. And when he caught the home run ball. He told me that they all the relievers got positions in the behind the outfield fence. Okay. And it was based on seniority. So see selection been there the longest so he just down the left field line. Tom houses way out in left center field figuring. Well, he's not gonna hit it here here. Right to you never even had to move there. It is. That was awesome, man. I I've told the story in the podcast before in this anniversary. I was ten years old. We did not have a television because we had to get up early in the morning. I was in bed by eight o'clock the next morning when when I got up there was a note written by my mother handwritten note on the table saying Hank Aaron broke, babe. Ruth's record, the crowd cheered, very cool. So huge moment in baseball history. Let's get to oh, I got to ask my question for your coffee drinker. Tim. No, I've had two cups of coffee in my life. Both on the Mike and Mike show because Mike Greenberg could not believe that a baseball writer didn't drink coffee. So I drank on national radio show. That's it cups. I've ever had. And you and you didn't like it so much that you just kept drinking coffee. No, I've had two cups. I drank one Cup to show him. I'm not afraid to drink a Cup of coffee. And then the second time, I did a few months later. They went and got some Starbucks because they figured let's put some really good coffee in there. And either one just didn't do anything for me. So I drink a diet mountain dew in the morning. It's terrible taste great. Okay. Yeah. Well, exactly, and I just wanna have you know, the reason why I asked the question is I'm doing this podcast without a Cup of coffee. Tim after getting three and a half hours sleep. And you have to admire my bravery. Well, the bravery that I admire is you're doing this from an airport and that you're doing it from a crowded. Airport. And there is nothing more frustrating in the world than being stuck in the security line at the airport to me, the definition of true happiness is I'm through the security line at the airport. And once you get on the plane. The thing you do course, put your jacket over your head. You still do that. Because I'm always cold on the airplane. So I look like some homeless man bundled up. I put my coat over my head and sleep for as long as I can if I can fall asleep. All right. Let's talk about baseball's unwritten rules again, which Tim you can pull out that volume that you have in your suitcase. Baseball's unwritten rules. We have to ask questions about it. Because of what happened in Pittsburgh yesterday. Dirk Detroit hits a monster home run into the river beyond right field. He stands at home plate for a long time on the next time. He comes up. Chris Archer throws a pitch behind him. He told reporters that one just got away. Tim. As as all pitchers should when you're in that sort of situation. What did you make of this? Well to hit a ball on the river is pretty impressive. But and I really liked your Dietrich. But he he admired that a little bit too long. And I would have been upset too as a pitcher. But I'm on record here BUSTER, you just can't hit guys because they flipped bat or Meyer a ball. It happens. All the time. I understand it. I've written the unwritten rule story more than once. But I just don't believe that you should hit a guy because he shows you up, but that's how baseball works. Baseball players are remorseless, the shortest longest memories ever. They never forget. And you're gonna pay for it. If you stand and watch it that long. But man, you hit a ball and river like that I would ever watch. Maybe I wouldn't watch that long. I wasn't surprised at all that they threw at him. I wasn't surprised at all. How angry David bell was over this. And they didn't throw Chris Archer out of the game immediate. Now Felipe Vasquez in his comments made to reporters after the game. It made it pretty clear that stature in the game had something to do with the pirates reaction. His quote was he shouldn't do it talking about Derek Dietrich Sandino plate, Joey Votto can do it. Because he's been here a long time. But for guy like that, he's not supposed to do something like that. So how many home runs could Derek Dietrich dizzy need to hit before it can stand at home plate in Meyer, home run like that Tim. Well, again, this is where the unwritten rules are looking cloudy to me. Like, yes, exactly. What is the number? What stature do you have to reach? And it's like Johnny gums told me for one of the many stories I've written on this. He says you've waited your whole life to do something like this. Then you get a chance to do it. And you hit a ball in the river and you're supposed to put your head down and just run as fast kid. I think when you've waited your whole life to do something like this. You could stay in watch it for a moment. But if you watch it too long or if. You don't have enough homers. Somebody's going to throw it at you. That's why the whole unwritten rule thing fascinates me. But confuses me daily. Now, you mentioned David bell. And how he went crazy because the home plate empire Raton throw. Chris Archer of the game. He basically turned in Warren bolt teams in David's feeling was look if you saw enough to if you saw enough to warn both teams why not adjust the guy, but I've been told by empires in the past him is is it major league baseball is position is that that's not necessarily something that merits ojection. Throwing a ball behind them is opposed to hitting them. I don't know if I'm not sure if I really agree with that that argument because I feel like throwing a ball behind the hitters really dangerous, and I get it. Chris Archer didn't come close to to beaning him. But you know, that the instinct of the hitter is to back into the pitch when they see something coming at them. Yeah. I'm not sure it was throw behind him. I think he was trying to hit him in the butt and he missed him. I mean, that's that's also possible. And I'm not sure there should be a difference there. But I I've seen this a million times. Thank goodness. We're not throwing up near the head that changes everything. Yes. I don't think the empire's wanna start a precedent that every time we see something suspicious. A guy gets chucked out of a game warnings were where necessary there, obviously. And I don't think I don't think in Jackson was warranted completely. But it's obvious with Chris Chris Archer was trying to do. And I felt like what? Yes, you did. Which is basically to take on the entire pirates team in the way that he was going at them. This is a guy who's playing in his first season with a new team and he's trying to show his teammates. I've got your back. What was your read? Yeah. That's how I saw it. And I'm okay with that. I remember when I covered. The Rangers in the eighties. They got in a fight in Kansas City one night and dug greater the manager. Who's a brilliant man and taught me so much about baseball said, well, I was hoping we wouldn't go through the whole season without a fight. And I know it sounds ridiculous and archaic and Neanderthal. But sometimes something like that can bring club together. Some sometimes the reds. Let's say don't know much about Yoshio plea hasn't been there long enough when you see him at least on some level standing up for teammate like that, you know, people kind of shake their head and go yet he's with us. That's a good sign, and I know it shouldn't be that way. But that's how it works in baseball. Sometimes and he was angry of the half of a teammate yesterday. Yeah. And I suspect it probably not only. I mean, David bells reaction was because that's what he believed to be the right thing that the pirate should have objected Archer. But I think in his actions yesterday, if we Gotcha also because the reds aren't going very well. Right. I mean, right. This. This is the way you stir the pot bright, that's frustrated David bell. And he's he just wants to show everybody. Nobody's gonna throw it. One of my guys and get away with it. I was completely okay. With what David bell did yesterday because he's the manager of the team. And when team is struggling like that and things aren't going. Well, somebody's gotta step forward and say, look, I still believe in you guys. Let's go. Right, tim. I spent the weekend around the Los Angeles Dodgers, and let me tell you my perception of that team was completely altered by the conversations they had with different people on the team by conversations they had with a lot of their hitters about this new approach. They have under new hitting coach, Robert Vince Goya first off you start with this. I players tell me that when the dodgers lost the World Series in two thousand seventeen against the Astros seven game World Series, the attitude of the players was you know, what? Now that was a good World Series. It was a coin flip. We could've come out ahead on that. But we didn't it was just unlucky as opposed to how they reacted after losing. Last fall the Red Sox when they basically got blown out by a better team. I guys on the team tell me they were angry, and we asked Dave Roberts about that. In our pre game meeting yesterday. And I'm and I asked him do you feel that and he said, absolutely. And you could see the passionate Dave spoke with about that about the players feel like. What we're sick of going to the World Series were sick losing that we gotta figure out a way to get to the next level. And then when it comes down to their hitting preparation. Unbelievable. Russell Martin told me said it's something he's never seen before eight talked about how before every game. The players are presented with a teen hitting plan individual players presented with their their own in a prescription from the coaching staff the expectation from the coaching staff on how they're going to be pitched. And Russell said look. That he feels like this is a case where it's like taking a quiz, except you get the answers a head of time because he feels like the coaching staff has been so good at predicting how guys are going to get pitched. And what I heard from so many players in the team was how a lot of guys at crossroads in their individual careers, Cody Bellinger after a couple of really difficult postseasons Austin Barnes trying to establish himself as a catcher in the big leagues. Now that he's getting a chance to be the everyday guy kicked TKO Dez getting a chance to play more jock Petersen locking in with your preparation in the way Roberts described Cody Bellinger, he said, look, it's no more homerun derby in batting practice. It's looking to take the ball to the middle of the field. Looking to take the ball to the to the opposite way and batting practice working on things as opposed to just figuring out in a what if I swing big a lot during the course of the year. I'm going to put up my numbers in. We'll be fine. It would Dave told us. Was Robert van Scoiety told the team in spring training? I look at the regular season as a dress rehearsal for facing number ones and number twos in October. And that's what we have to get ready for apparently they're conversations in the batting cage. Now before games is off the charts. Like the players are invested. They're talking to each other. And Justin Turner rather than being an outlier. He's one of many guys locked in each plate appearance. What he's seeing this. Well, I saw the same anger that you saw I saw that in spring training when I talked to a couple of their guys. And I think it's great. I think they did they play very well in the World Series last year and the Red Sox kick their butts. But the only game the dodgers wanted took eighteen innings and a walk off Homer. And then even play particularly well in that game. So I think they all understand that this just isn't good enough to go to the World Series. Now, it's time to win the. World series. And I totally agree BUSTER with all of this about new hitting coach new hitting approach. But I think the other thing is I think they look around. And Cody Bellinger goes I'm not sitting against any left-handers this year, especially in the World Series, max Muncie and the rest of that team. They're looking each other for the most part and say, look, I'm in everyday player. Now, no chance I'm sitting out game one in game to the World Series. When I have a season like that. And I think that's part of the mentality. Also is I'm in everyday player. I'm playing against everyone now, and we're not gonna platoon at every position. And I think once you have it in your mind that I'm good enough to hit everybody. I think that's where the the change in philosophy begins, and the let's go lefty righties, I'm hitting them all this year their offense of numbers so far. Okay. They have twenty four homers, which is the most the nationally league. Second baseball. Behind. Seattle's the Mariners have twenty seven. They have a team batting average. Tim of three oh, seven they have a team on base percentage of four zero three and Tim. They haven't Opie S team PS of nine ninety one that so far this season about scored their Ponant eighty four to forty eight a run differential of plus thirty six after ten games. I went into the year not really knowing how to sort of look at the National League. And I walked away from this week and saying there's no question. The dodgers are the best team head and shoulders in the National League. What do you? Yeah. I talked to one of their guys he's not a player, and I'll leave him out of this. But he's a respected guys. What about the dodgers for this year? And he just looked at me. And he goes there phenomenally good phenomenal is the word he used and I'm thinking. Wow. I'm not sure I see what you see. I think they're the best team in the National League. But I don't see them being head and shoulders above everyone else. This guy did and so far. Far, maybe not he hasn't been. Exactly, right. But man, do they look good. And when you can score runs in punches like they have scored so far. I mean, they were fifty runs before you blinked an eye in eight homers on opening day. Maybe that's a sign that. This is a really really good team. I've said all along I think there are lot of really closely match teams in the National League. Maybe the dodgers are saying none or no we're the best team in the league. And there's no doubt about it. So I did a lot of research for this broadcast preparing for it on Nolan are not who I know is one of your favorite guys to watch because he's so intense, and he's one of those guys who everyone seems to have a story about him. And I hope everyone get a chance to see Alex Rodriguez interview with him where you head Nolan throw from his knees behind third base in foul territory on that side from his knee three straight throws perfect to first base, which just showed off ridiculous arm strength, and you can hear Nolan's passion for the execution of plays in Alex's interview. So I would urge everyone to find that. But Tim I talked to Mike in solace who was his high school coach out Nolan last week. And he told me this phenomenal story about how two thousand sixteen all star game happens and Nolan is representing the Iraqis for the National League, and he has a really bad at bat against della. Matanzas he strikes out on three pitches. And Mike konczal is like a lot of fans. Is watching the game in ten o'clock at night the phone rings, and it's Nolan and he says, you know, what coach not feeling very good. I'm wondering can we go down to the cages tomorrow and hit? My dad will be there. We'll do some of the things we do in the past because I wanna make sure I feel better going into the second half. So the next day Nolan are not just made the all star team is taking extra batting practice because he wasn't comfortable about an Advani had in the all star game. That's insane. That's insane. But he's insane. And for all the right reasons, I'll never forget bus to the last day of the eighty seven season. Don Mattingly is out on the field with a coach only on the last day of the season. There's no playoff games to be one. There's no batting title to be one that day and he's hidden in the rain at nine o'clock in the morning and Yankee Stadium before the final Sunday game of the season. And I went to have what are you doing out here? And he goes mom going home for the winter. And I'm not going home with a bad feeling in my mind about about the way my swing is right now because I took a couple of terrible swings lately. This is what committed players do. And there's no one more committed than Nolan air Nado. And we all know his defense is ridiculously good. And I was told by coach last year who had a AA that he would take X. Ground balls every day in the minor league every day. So he says, let's take some ground balls extra today. And the coach said known, it's Tulsa, it's one hundred and twelve degrees today, we're not taking extra balls aeronautic goes, ten minutes, just ten minutes. Please a need extra ground balls today. That's that's who he is. And that's why he's so good. And this how good he is. Michael KC told me once his first three months with the Rockies. He said that guy made the five greatest place I've ever seen third basement make in my life, and he did it in my first three months here in Colorado. That's how good that guy is bud. Black told us a story in our pre game meeting with him on Sunday about the first time that he spent time with him. He actually went to watch him work at an Irvine. And he goes, you know, it's the middle of January takes batting practice. And then he goes out to take ground balls. And it's not just. Yeah. Here hit me. Fifteen grounders. We're good to go. And we're done. He's diving all over the place. He's crazy, and he's like said to know Nolan. It's the middle of January but say that's who he is. I got four quick ones for you before you go one on Saturday. Theo Epstein came out met with reporters and basically told them that the early season woes are on me. And he said in so many words blame me because he made reference to player acquisition, Tim. I think he's not only was it right for him to do this. But I think it's also accurate when I look at the cubs and their basic problems, it's because of some of the guys at the front office invested in whether it's you Darvish or Tyler chat would or the fact that they're not getting anything out of Brandon Morrow who is hasn't been healthy. Brandon Kessler who they got last year. He hasn't been that good for them. I think he was dead on on this thing. I don't put this on Joe Madden. I don't put it on at this point anybody except for the front office acquiring. Players who haven't performed well. I would agree. I mean they needed some bullpen help. And they didn't go get it. They needed starting pitching help. And they traded he Jimenez for Jose Catanha, and that has worked out very well and Darvish has been not very good. In two starts that year was virtually no help last year. And look I'm all for keeping the team together. That's great thing in today's day and age, but this is like the same team now for three or four years. And at some point you have to ask yourself is this the right combination? I think it still could be, but this is on the GM more than anything in good for THEO for standing up and saying it's on me. I get a lot of questions on Twitter. One amount about people always ask me about Craig kimbrel in a witch team is gonna get Craig kimbrel. He's looked at. I think by a lot of fans as sure thing, Tim. I don't think teams look at him as necessarily being sure thing even though he's had tremendous success. A closer. He's right now, probably on a trajectory that would take him to be in a conversation for the hall of fame, but because of finished and now because the fact he hasn't been pitching, I don't think teams look at him as being absolutely this rock-solid guy, we can drop in. And all of a sudden are bullpen problems are fixed. What do you think? Yeah. He's been a great closer for at least eight years here, but his postseason numbers and performances haven't really been commensurate with his regular season. And I think that's what teams are looking at it. But I think mostly BUSTER it's about the money, and he just they're just not gonna he's just not going to get four years. He's not gonna get three years from what I can tell I think the Braves would give them one or two at the most. I was just in Atlanta. I think they need him. But they're not gonna go three or four years. And I don't think any other team is and I hope he pitches. The game is better when he's in it, but he's going to have to lower that demand. And so far that has an. Snap. Chris Davis on Sunday. Oh for four with two strikeouts. He's now hitless in his last forty four bats since the second inning. Double of James shields of the White Sox last September fourteenth. Tim, I talked about this with Carl on Friday. What are the Orioles waiting for? I get it that they own a lot of money ninety two million dollars over four years. But I think we've seen enough where ownership should basically give the okay and say, you know, what we got a new front office there turning the page. They're bringing in a new group of players. We got a new manager Brandon Hyde we're going to free him from having to make decisions around Chris Davis. Just cut him loose. What do you think? Yeah. And I I really liked Chris Davis. And I don't get any joy in any no matter. How amazing this story becomes I feel sorry for him. He is struggling so badly. But if you're going to move forward and do a complete rebuild which the Orioles are trying to do then he's got to go because. It's he's gotta get out their first off if ever going to revive his career. But if they're ever going to start to move forward than than they they have to go take trae Manzini and put him at first base everyday where he belongs and tell Chris Davis. Sorry. This didn't work. We're going to pay you to leave. I think it's better for everyone including for Chris Davis. So far the sees no for Twenty-three with thirteenth strike us. And last one for you you got the Red Sox opener on Tuesday. We know they haven't played well, but you know, in the end fans absolutely have huge cheers for their team. First home game. It's the ring ceremony BUSTER, they're going to be thunderous applause tomorrow. It doesn't matter that they're three and eight tomorrow they've got Chris sale going, which is another story. We'll see how well he throws where his velocity is. But this is the chance to tell the team man, you guys want one hundred nineteen games last year, and it's absurd that they. Haven't played a home game yet. But tomorrow will be a celebration win or lose. And it should be for the Red Sox based on the way they played last year. And I have every confidence that this team is going to start to play a whole lot better. Now that they get to start to play some home games who's in the booth for you tomorrow. It's Carl and Eduardo and may so that tiny little broadcast booth. It's going to be like a middle seat on south west for me as always. All right. Well, thanks for doing this have fun tomorrow. Okay. Buster travel safely as we watch the suburban garden, gnome, Catholic Catholic without stubbing it he noticed the took moves like not at all. It's inanimate and utterly without brain function. But despite that when it got known his how gyco not only saves people money, but also gives them access to licensed agents twenty four seven online and over the phone. It's clear to them. You should switch because. Yes. Switching to Geico is a no brainer on second thought. Maybe don't watch garden gnomes to carefully people might talk. On Sunday Roxy Bernstein, Chris singleton caught up with Cody Bellinger, the hottest hitter in baseball, Cody Bellinger, with us and first off your off to a great start the teams off to a great start. What's the feeling in this clubhouse right now heading into the year? The feeling is good. The feeling was good heading into the season and spring training for the most part came out healthy majority of the team. And I don't know we just we have a lot of confidence in just try to carry that into the regular season the off season for you. How different was this one is opposed to a year ago? Now having to major league seasons on your belt. Most of the only part that was different was preparing for the outfield rather than first base. Just, you know, just worry about the bad first base take care of self. But this year just did more Jillymore footwork because any be out there in the outfield somewhere majority of the year, which one do you? Enjoy more. I don't really enjoy one more than the other. I think first base you're more active and kind of got maybe lock it in like a tad bit mortgage because ball's coming out you little quicker, but I enjoy outfield like. I like running stuff down and showing off the ability and can't really do that at first base all the time Cody two thousand seventeen rookie of the year two thousand eighteen so many times people talk about that sophomore season guy. Can try too hard to duplicate what he did in the first season. How much would you say for you in terms of learning? And then also I want you to tell me about moving around position wise how that kind of affected you whether it was a positive neutral, or maybe something that added a little more to your plate. I think I, you know, somewhat got away from myself a little bit in eighteen and the pressure to perform the want to perform you just kinda do it you can that day. But I don't know. I think the position I didn't I didn't mind it. I don't mind playing outfielder I pace I enjoy playing both and gives other news gives people pointing time opportunities and just wherever you can be in the lineup is blessing for you. Did he work in anything specific with your swing and trying to? Get things back on track for this year a little bit. I just I mean, the two coaches have now Robin Brownian, obviously, they have had success with past hitters, and so I went in with an open mind, and just you know, when over seventeen when I did well and what I didn't do. Well, and honestly didn't really watch video on eighteen. Just focus on seventeen while. Good. And why wasn't good and just made some adjustment from there. And eventually, you know, every game spring training, you're still making tweaks to make it your own swing, and eventually just you have a base that you can make Justice from that people talk about Colorado being a great place to hit for you. Obviously had home run on Friday. You've had your success here. Tell me about what it's like visiting player coming in obviously, the ballpark's great to hit. But sometimes guys have a hard time sleep in his well and trying to balance those two things and come out of this series with some good numbers. It's different. It is definitely different. You can tell I shouldn't. But the sleeping is true. I didn't have any problem this series. But I don't know elevations gives you you rather in right field and you run to the right field position. You're like, oh, man. Like, why am I just shot? You know, why am I tired? It. Just you know, it lit Israel. So just drink a lot of washed out of the day. That's the only thing you can really do. You mentioned the new hitting approach here with the dodgers. It's been written in the LA times about the two new guys coming in. What's it been like for you to learn the new process at least the new thinking and mentality and then the success that he'd had guys like JD Martinez. And Chris Taylor did that influence you in keeping that open, mind and belief into a new approach. Yeah. It does. I don't I mean. I think what they have going on. Right now is great. It's open communication. It's like we can work at brownie with rob whoever you want. They're not gonna be mad. They're all open to just helping you one hundred percent. And it's a great thing that we got going, and we're just trying to keep it going and keep this enrolling. Appreciate the time. Cody. Thanks. Thank you. Todd rate him is he chief executive of our weekly quiz. He's a graphic artist whose work can be seen on ball fields all across America all around the world and Todd before we get to the weekly quiz. We always have our cap talk in two thousand nineteen and as we speak him sitting here with a beautiful Rockies cap acquired at the ballpark in Denver so excited, but I have no idea what colors on top of my head. Can you please eliminate it me? Well, when you when you think of Colorado BUSTER, you think of purple mountains majesty, and maybe you'll think of black and silver because those of the colors of the nineties and the Rockies are from the ninety s and I think it's an interesting conversation because this is a team that I played in nineteen Ninety-three, and they have never changed their caps. So let's talk Rockies. What do they need to change to? We like what we have. Is it a classic are those theoretical colors. Good for you yet last week. Josh was trying to describe exactly the various combinations that would work or not work. And I can't even imagine what he was talking about. Josh take it from there. Well, yeah, Todd, you you know, what I'm talking about. I was asking BUSTER if he was going to go with the all black Rockies cap or the Rockies cap with the purple Bill, and you would have thought that I was speaking Mandarin to him. He didn't understand the difference. I told him I purples one of my problem colors that I'll say I love this. Blue blue blue shirt, blue cap and someone will look at me. No, that's purple you loser. It's one of my problems colors, and I have to interject what's your NFL team of choice? Poster. That's the that's the point Todd. Yeah. But I'm telling you, I can't see when everyone's like, well, the purple people eaters and all that I'm like great. I just see a bunch of guys running around and blue. But that's okay. You just feel better than I do. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And you know, so the Rockies to me kind of the with the backs long ago having gone to Sedona red and their whole combination of colors, the Rockies are purple and they actually lightened their color purple couple of years ago. Brightened it up I should say for the first time in their history. So I kind of want to, you know, push the purple if it were me having this conversation. I would say. You know, own the thing run with it hap-, some purple lids, which BUSTER would have no idea what we're talking about. But yeah. But to answer your initial question Todd. I I like the fact that they've remained strong and consistent for what twenty five years at this point. So what are the other expansion teams that have come out either at the same time as the Rockies or after the Rockies? So they came in with the Marlins, correct? And then after you had the rays and the Diamondbacks all three of whom have had wild variations in their uniforms over the years, the Rockies, I like the fact that they've been steady for twenty-five ups. Yeah. They went with a pretty conservative. Look again, considering the era of we think about the sports landscape of nineteen Ninety-three. We're thinking Toronto Raptors righty in the NBA and some crazy things happening. But I'll tell you what I'm thinking about this. I was at the first ever Colorado Rockies game. So what Shea Stadium in April nineteen Ninety-three the late, Don Bailer manager of the club and leaves that team out, and you know, they pretty much look the same now as they did then. And there is something to be said for you know, when it comes to impressions, and branding and keeping things consistent. We know who they are. And and that's not a bad thing. That's exactly right. And I gotta believe that some of that's related. The fact that that Rockies team all the sluggers that they had they had some initial success, and that you know, as opposed to the raise. Maybe part of the reason why they were constantly changing was because they were terrible for a lot of years. Yeah. The Blake street bombers and think ballparks too because you know, well through mile high out for those first two years because I was always a temporary home. But of course, field bricks, very traditional architecture kind of in the Camden Yards model, of course, which revolutionized things, and when you're talking raise you've got the thunderdome as it was originally known, and it's a very different contemporary, look and one of these one of these podcasts, we will get into the changing color of the dome itself down there, which I think is an interesting topic. But, but yeah, I mean, you know, team should fit their ballpark sometimes. And I think for whenever you think of the Marlins there looked fits their ballpark. But they started going back to the Rockies. That's certainly the case out in Denver. Yeah. The cap I have has something that's not black. But I have no idea. What color? It is. All just take your guys word for BUSTER purple now. Okay. All right. Let's get to this week's quiz Todd. All right, guys. Here we go. Listen carefully, which one of these events occurred. Most recently, a the Washington senators won a World Series. Be the original Yankee Stadium opened for business. See the Tigers I war in old English de or de the pirates lost a World Series. Most recently senators win though World Series. The original Yankee Stadium opens. The Tigers I wear in linguist D or the pirates lose the World Series. Wow. Wow. That's a good one. I'm going to go the senators win the World Series. What he got Josh? I'm gonna say the pirates lost a World Series. Josh, you are a smart young. Now. I am. Nine hundred and twenty seven we all remember that. Of course, tease throw Yang, idiots course. Buster. Wow. And there was no hesitation on either. I went to that. This could be the most difficult question of the season. I'm just gonna put that out there. I should roll. Then. No, no. You know, what I got caught? I don't even want. Explain what he had caught up. And but when you said the pirates lost the World Series immediately hearken back to this first World Series at the beginning of the century. And I was just thinking senators now that's a lot. I got hooked on it, and I wasn't really processing and very bitten. All right. I'm down to in this quiz or this year's quiz. But I remember that happened last year. When I I'm just going to be honest with you, you're only down. Oh, no, you are down to your right? Whatever. All right. Somebody's keeping scores. True. Yeah. Thanks for ruining my week. Great to talk with you. All right. You're welcome. Bleacher tweets. All right BUSTER. Let's check out some Bleacher tweets first, one from David Miller at David meal. A Josh and BUSTER given the need around the league for a veteran. Bullpen arm. How long do you guys? Think kimbro will remain team lists sometime this week next week made may. Look, it's no question. His camp believes the longer. They wait that maybe the more likely it is that some team gets desperate and David. I'm telling you, I don't know if that's the case because more and more here from front offices that they're concerned about guys who sit out and wait a long time, and that don't have regular preparation. So I do think that the certainly be plenty of interest Craig kimbrel around baseball. But not nearly at the level of what was being talked about the beginning of the off season, which was a six year deal next from very creative Twitter name, Tim still an east champs Childers at Childers seventeen eight eight so far Dan's be as the most improved player of the year. And it's not close. So it's not really a question on this particular bleejon tweet. It's a statement, and Tim Iran, and I'd say this Dan Danby wanted. Yes. He's improved. Cody Bellinger is ridiculous right now and the adjustments. He's made he looks like he's going next level. And I understand this someone who said success in the past, but his improvement is remarkable from Nome at Nome eighty nine. What's going on with these huge scores Sunday alone? Fifteen three in Baltimore twelve nine in New York. Twelve five in Chicago nine eight in Houston Fridays. Brewers game was thirteen ten. Yeah. And the game we saw last night. Of course, field twelve six the dodgers beating the Rockies. I think it just comes down to the pitchers not necessarily being ready first round through they get everybody lined up. But by the time we get to that second weekend. The bullpens are starting to get beat up a little bit guys. Started get overused guys certain get used second third day in a row, and I think that's contributing to these scores from Rena Rena Benin muster last season. We all said it's fine about the nationals until they were eliminated from playoff contention. Although it's early is it already no longer just fine for the Red Sox or the cubs bowl teams are at least four and a half games back. Already in two cutthroat divisions. Yeah. Rena I think it's just fine for the Red Sox for the cubs. It's different it feels different because the concerns about their pitching staff and questions about how they're actually going to get better as we move forward. And finally from Chris coli at Coley underscore Chris with their win on Sunday. The Mariners boast the best record in the majors at nine and two and heavy three and a half game lead over the defending ale. Wes champ Astros. So BUSTER are the Mariners contenders or pretenders this season? And Chris, you know that since I swore off ever predicting good things for the Mariners again after being wrong. So many times in the past this happened before the two thousand eighteen season. I'll continue that and say I just don't see it for the Mariners. And I do think that they have in all seriousness today of somebody bullpen problems pitching problems that they won't be able to overcome those in eventually, they'll fall back to the pack. But there's no question. They have been surprising this season. Like the number. Mhm runs into production of that lineup. And how they're beating up on teams. Eight tip of the cap. The Mariners for a hot start. Keep your baseball questions. Come in in. If you wanna hear baseball questions answered on this podcast. All you gotta do is on Twitter use the hashtag Bleacher tweets, and that's it for today. My thanks to Cody Bellinger, Roxy Bernstein, Chris singleton, Tim Kirch in Todd Radim Daniel standing for filling in for Josh macrey on this Monday. And his baggage claim Monday here from the Denver airport. Thanks for listening. Everybody have a great day. Thanks for listening to the baseball tonight podcast if you're playing fantasy baseball till forget to listen to the fantasy focus podcast checkout all podcasts at ESPN dot com slash pod center. Baseball tonight, the podcast. And now I fought from Geico motorcycle it took fifteen minutes to click on the banner ad entitled, you won't believe what these child stars look like now be dissatisfied and kinda sad about how the child stars look. And now your computer is played by pump up ads can't be to add insult to injury. You could've used those fifteen click bait minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to gyco. Geico, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance.

Baseball Chris Chris Archer Los Angeles Dodgers BUSTER Rockies Tim Cody Bellinger Red Sox David bell Denver Astros Derek digger Dietrich Todd Radim Daniel Colorado Hank Aaron Roxy Bernstein Pittsburgh Gary Sanchez Nolan
360 - Bernie Blanco Goes to Queens feat. Matt Karp (10/21/19)

Chapo Trap House

1:07:05 hr | 1 year ago

360 - Bernie Blanco Goes to Queens feat. Matt Karp (10/21/19)

"Op guarantee various other by now by twenty nineteen we even have more ambitious sort of labor bills are talking about seriously considering or aware that there's a mass base for social democratic programs like Medicare for all Free College we're we're we are now and why Sanders represents another different possible path than the one that we seem doomed to repeat Ah for discussion Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera we've had a lot of progress in the sense that we're talking about these ideas and it's clear that people can't afford to write them off or ignore them attended their marginal in fact they're polling most of them at around sixty percent or higher so that's all to the good the bad side the undertow underneath all of this kind of psychologist showing me contradictory ambiguous jeet here tweets and asking me to sort of make sense I find it very healing restorative even not you know this is going to be it's going to be a Bernie heavy episode because obviously there was a rally on Saturday that we all attended from the political left in the last three or four years since the Bernie Movement for sure we've had a lot of like discourse wins in the sense that the Democratic Party and the National Media you know this sort of triumphant narrative about the return of socialism or this sort of new new left or all these you know the rise of the you know the Bernie crowd's episode I am between to Matt's when Matthew already know your beloved crystalline the other one making his triumphant return but but brought it in that this is you know Bernie's what's up you're already know more and more people are talking about it or maybe they have to talk about it again because he it's a strong showing on Saturday and picked up endorsements but mainly what you do in your article it's called is this the future liberals want you essentially schedule Out The past present and to potential futures of like what the Democratic Party or liberals are just two possible it's MAC card of Jackson in Princeton University Matt. How's it going pretty good I had a good therapy session today mostly consisted of my as we have more ambitious and more exciting sort of left wing ideas on center stage we sort of lack or we're I worry that we a aligned working class voting in the same party and that's that's that's the voting coalition that produce the new deal et CETERA civil rights movement it is a relatively you you know relatively not necessarily unified or united but at least a I'm in the short or medium-term is still the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party itself is moving away from the historic force that has actually delivered any of these goods in the past you saw us there maybe you just saw the photos I WanNa talk about that and you know what it all means but like mainly on somebody yeah man I wanted to talk to you home in in some ways from that perspective will you begin the article you know with something that I'm always I always enjoy future dystopia 's you begin the article acceptable Democratic Party can't warrant sorry yeah so how does that future come about giving where we now and there is no change sanders goes way fizzles out or that rather more likely that energy is channelled into sort of being first term governor of California me Obama representing the Republicans we have former wwe superstar turned hooting judge Shit had we we is in the Democratic Party which I guess I shouldn't speak for the Democratic Party but I just worry that the voting coalition that seems poised to be able to to to sort of stand up for those by talking about it's twenty forty Robo cops on every street corner of America beating the hell out of poor matt last let's and the DSM and other social movements the the downside is that the sort of the political vehicle they could deliver any of these actual goods You know which right and you know not to put to find a point on it why Elizabeth Warren does not represent a different path from previous right Elliot's right I mean even in the last ten years even arguably in the last five years with the midterm race in Fairfax County affiliation of the Democratic Party and so even we are now like all sci-fi good or bad it's basically just a steroidal version of the present right so it's not particularly imaginative but I think the idea is where Democrats the Democratic Party was never a workers party but it was a party that all that the vast majority of workers voted for that's been being delighted since the seventies and it's accelerating news for those ideas and it has material stones to get them done is is is evaporating so this is a real critical hello prince Chapel the week you'll hear the Liz gene the party move with it's a professional class energy in the party moved from McGovern to do caucus and Clinton before we've seen that right worship these are unreliable professional class and upper middle class voters are unreliable advocates let alone political force to be able to deliver I said I I I've said this online but like I wrote this article kind of from a place among Biblical about on the one hand we've had a lot to cheer about in some ways to Warren things are looking good the Democratic Party is moving to the left the overton window Blah Blah Blah but it to some extent it's a and then too but the point is you can talk about candidates in terms of sort of their ideological positioning by that logic okay we've got we've gone from Clinton to Obama is you know you have an article out Jakobsen that I thought was very good and interesting it certainly got all the right people angry and upset obviously that appeals to me even in the piece that the first move towards sort of making the Democratic Party I'll white collar kind of knowledge economy you know new you know configuration was actually the governor you know it was actually it was a left-wing progressive movement which was good on some stuff it was good on relative to the Democrats it was good on foreign policy is good on empire etc populism with a kind of nationalist white nationalist potentially working class base that is you know in mortar gal is dominated by the kind of needs and aspirations of this professional class is literally Elizabeth Warren in the quiet car with Warren returning a library book et Cetera et Cetera et cetera hardy recedes further and further from horizon so whatever the ideological makeup on the surface of this configuration is I think one there are some real strict indies not just the Democrats like every basically every Labor party in the West has been bleeding support from the working class largely because they have shifted politically doesn't matter what the stated platforms of the parties are because these coalitions are going to produce the same politics that we've had for the last twenty years which is frankly not locked in mortal combat indefinitely with this kind of professional class liberalism that configuration which is basically our configuration now if it just deepens an accelerates Africa his latest like two thousand nine well you know I mean he's still bitter about the AFL CIO not right right no that's true I mean that was an ugly configuration. The Democratic Party continues to Alaw Chuck Schumer replace Blue Collar workers with White College educated either former Republicans or features for American politics but to get there you sorta sketch out the pass of the Democratic Party of like showing us like historically like how we've gotten to the moment Louisiana's going up and twenty forty eight presidential election on the democratic side we have charisma like in America and what were some like what were the casual things it produced even given the rotten racist Cold War context right yeah you don't have to Romanticize the mid century democratic the basic rudiments of anything like a welfare state that we do have social security Medicare Unemployment Insurance Wagner Act which allowed any kind of mass unionization and the Civil Rights Movement itself Voting Rights Act Civil Rights Act etc housing rights all that stuff was the small Democratic Left Yeah Vietnam Jim Crow complicit in all sorts of horrible things and yet I mean the truth is we don't talk about this very much but what undermining you know left wing Labour movements etc etc.. Certainly the McCarthy era was not a shining moment for the professional class party in which it's based in its identity it's leadership especially it's it's it's kind of cultural and aesthetic I fear is that this is actually sort of an ideological cycle rather than some sort of a profound left-wing shift given that you know we've delivered by a Democratic Party which was not a workers party but was a party in which most workers voted for And you didn't have to be under that alignment where you're if you're basically limits to what that configuration can deliver materially in terms of the legislation that it's going to fight for and win and to it sets up a kind of even more deranged independence etc Kind of goes the road of Fairfax County No matter what the particular ideology associated with that move is I mean this was kind of a to neoliberalism markets against Labor whatever whatever you WANNA call it but before that like how would you like how did class voting work particularly improvement for the average American when you talk about like in terms of deliverables here and like in class voting going back like since the seven Asia styles and this is are you ready for it and and and this is the vision of like if digs continue as they are alignment or even the nineteen sixties was was was someone who knew that their constituency was the working class and therefore the politics were shaped by that we haven't had that since the late sixties we've been moving further and further away from that shift and so no matter the individual ideological profiles or various idiosyncrasies of Harlem I say in the piece or a minor in Virginia or a farmhand somewhere in the west overwhelmingly if you voted voted Democrat and that using to me how people are able to totally embrace the wish casting about politicians personalities that's sort of exactly the point the Democratic Party was never a party of was never really a workers party it played a big role in lots of places as any leftist would know in kind of why Democrats since Carter etc have been unable and really unwilling to deliver anything on the scale of those mid-century victories I have to say it is democratic leaders since then that's those fundamentals haven't changed and there's a reason I mean this isn't just about party Amex but this is a huge part of the reason but it was awful on Labor Michael Brooks told me that I didn't realize is that McGovern was doing anti Africa outside the south which always had a distinctive culture obviously based on Jim Crow Culture for most this period but outside the south if you were a worker with your mail carrier they were really good person and they returned their library books and their epic and they have all these personal characteristics. The reason that you're doing that is because you know the lots of Democrats my example in the part is is the is Hubert Humphrey. You didn't have to be a politician of a tremendous moral character. You're a left-wing program so going forward even if Warren Wins or if Warren Loses whatever if Warren is consolidates the Democratic Party bad on others but as you say here and I'm quoting here says it's not a coincidence that even popular two term democratic presidents of this era elected by such it doesn't matter because they're planning the button that you are calling them to press as opposed to having to put everybody in the fucking sorting hat and figure out which ones on the character if you think about I mean of the of the Individual Labor Party members who voted for the National Health Service and you know under the Atlee off but he knew that his constituency the Democratic Party's constituency was workers so even if he was a hack and that might not be fair to Humphry he was good on civil rights he took some strong stands it's GONNA civil rights bad on Viet open-door before you know you can vote for because they have wizard powers and you're just pathetic mogul I mean this is even more true international terms I mean I would invite you to yes and you know this is the era as does but there's a really good archive of the Hubert Humphrey Archive of its got off I mean he's in there like calling out scabs and I mean he's speaking they were the ones that got done all of the things that the modern Democratic Party is still coasting on and still wants you to associate with the Democratic Party and every paddle to bounce stuff too but he he the sort of default hack of the Democratic Party in the nineteen thirties or forties under a class voting you have a right actually organized pressure of movement along class lines were class interests then you don't it doesn't matter they could be complete peace shit because they know that it's like a and not realize how the really just celebrating their own powerlessness because when you spend time fixating on well this this candidate I think then I think that accelerates the D. alignment from the sort of the possibility of a united working class at some level that once they get in there they're not accountable to anybody so you're totally at their mercy of their personality personal beliefs that's what we have to do you have a pressure and you know national health insurance etc etc if you read I actually went deep at one point and got I got a little drunk reading Hubert Humphrey speeches from the late forty have pundit class surrounding this you know Obama Era Democratic Party that he's like deeply invested in honoring and kind of trumpeting invested in this project of kind of pointing out the ways in which this coalition this in effect the kind of Obama coalition there are only the victory of the monitor our reliance on these like incredibly gifted charismatic figures like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama but then again aerobic aspiration to deliver things like social security or to fight for things or just sort of have a commitment to things like a strong labor movement actually is fighting for both has in some measure depends on who you talk to has either has either delivered versions of progressive changed true he did not aggressively pivot to the right in the way the Clinton did so you know we'll give him a lot of one and a half years for that thanks to the tea party he couldn't do That are that stack up with previous achievements or can just in the very near term do something like that but if you look at the balance sheet I mean if you sort of zoom out and these achievements I mean we go back to Jonathan chait liberalism is working but but even ply the Obama legacy is why Obama has built a legacy that'd be really generous added some sought to sort of bolster or tweak or sort of in some areas I mean he expanded Medicaid etc industry were they all heroic kind of wizards you know no I mean these are they're just probably you know look at the records of their administration versus what like you know even shithead like Hubert Humphrey was willing to not just get done but just support right right it's flat poverty the same working class wealth black wealth wiped out by the housing crisis not remedied meanwhile banks profit banks and in a means tested way etcetera etcetera etcetera but nothing fundamentally change in terms of if anything everything everything got worse eighty percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck wages realign class coalitions have proven unable unwilling to push for structural for anything like the skills the new deal era even after facing the biggest economic crash this the Great Depression and like the if they don't follow the agenda they're gonNA get fucking removed you want more working class pieces of shit up there yet where we stand for Rice of fucking Yeah Ward Healing shithead three it's paltry and meanwhile what you have and when I mean I'm sure there's where you wanted to go with this but what you have is a kind of immediate class or a kind of but but but but but even people who have changed you know like obviously Paul Krugman is notorious on this kind of stuff but a lot of other you know sort of left liberals have become anywhere in America you're not you're not you're you may be living paycheck to paycheck because you have a lot of built in expenses or something but you're you're not Wall Street swimming in profit and nothing changed nothing will change under this alignment no matter how bold and progressive it's Tribune's call it and in your kind of class war language even as somebody who is not I think he was like a pharmacist it's not like he was a sort of horny handed son of the son of Toil. Da is like even of that like rotten era of mid century American Democrats because of the class alignment of the parties his grand bargain exactly so he's half pivot to the center were we're we're away by the insane right so so like he etcetera etcetera I'll leave that to the sociologist but but I think if you're if you're making money if you have a comfortable and reliable freshener class or equivalent position in society you know the various Eric Lovett's we'll just talk about him he so we'll give him credit I won't even be maximally generous here he did not he held the course and in fact on the welfare state he may even have if six-figure Democrat Patagonia this sort of affluent professional class Democrat because it's not I'm not going to get into the sociology here about what qualifies professional managerial class tax cuts or whatever you know sure but are they up for an actual pitch battle against the forces of darkness that are upholding our private get the politics of class equality poverty and wealth in the United States in the last fifty years nothing under the Obama administration nothing changed I mean governments in deep deep blue states like Washington state the first thing they do is is wipe out the possibility of tax increases because a lot of these people not even just one hundred thousand dollar Democrats this is you could call it. six-figure Democrats people making let's be honest in some in some municipalities this isn't even very rich but people who are comfortable if you're making six figures and therefore they're on board according to polls for modest tax increases in order to pay for things like improved healthcare et Cetera et cetera therefore they're going to be up for it the ogling white knuckling it you're not white knuckling I don't believe individual sort of examples to notwithstanding and I think the L. are for profit healthcare system I mean that's a seems frankly mental on the surface of it and if you look at you know I go into if you look at the how things have played out on the state I have to shout out to my commissars on that one but yeah who really love Patagonia basically I mean would you have sown the way I look at it the Nice One I like Eric Davis like all of these people I guess left liberals say like I I find him the most honest to Eric Eric Lovett's is that these people actually will benefit from a sort of a modestly a modest social democratic program I think that's probably right to some extent yeah whatever their their the gallant to Matt Iglesias is a Goof us but but the argument just to just to put the argument of the table if you WanNa get into that yeah I know and that's why I Article v Example of Hubert Humphrey stuck out for me like so much I got kind of zero good on something You know I think this is really weak in terms of I mean I agree that the Democrats making one hundred thousand dollars a year might be down for like rolling back the trump it's like you're talking about the people who are who are most wedded to this idea that this this new democratic coalition is so wonderful endure yeah right exactly the subtitle was changed to why Obama's both legacy that still matters they literally subtitle yeah during the trump whistling past the graveyard you call it the of the Patagonia Democrats is what you're further explain that well that's a son Car CA PATRICK ISM I have to obnoxious I don't know I can't I can't well they're British listeners the show can fill is ask but they suck they were pieces of Shit I'm sure but the two hundred thousand dollar Democrats that three hundred thousand dollar Democrats they don't actually you know when it comes to their own material interests we see this in the especially in Manhattan with the kind of school doc school politics when when people's actual you know material interests are on the line they don't actually have the incentive to fight for this kind of stuff when you take it out system takes up one sixth of the economy in which huge vested interests are tied right you know wrapped in twine around major advisors you know Nancy Pelosi's staff the Anna Ish fantasy of the Sanders program they imagined that they look at they look at the reality of American politics as it existed their entire lives and they say commit that has these structural impediments thrown up to to prevent you from getting anything done what exactly even if they're down for the fight is are these debated force that is actually going to provide the muscle and the leadership to get this incredibly difficult this incredibly difficult job done of the economy to stop the way that say the air traffic or the way that say the the flight attendants could or ups drivers could or people roll owning it Candia Liberal Dylan Matthews is just like no she's not going to do that he's not GonNa do Medicare for all and that's fine what she can do is nibble on the edges get an answer the wider view the longer view assume that they are totally ernest that they're for all this stuff that they're not just saying it because it makes them feel like good people all right eruption bill passed po potentially with this kind of coalition but you take the politics indoors and you work out the best deal that can be had with the Democratic Party that you had deliver that fight you're crazy so what what's the burning platform the Bernie program for achieving this stuff it's not about getting into the room and making it happen it it happens you're in there you're you're you're now trying to pass stuff against the will of this minority minority move for guys like Iglesias in these dudes that is that they are at the end of the day just cannot contain their contempt for the what they see as possible people can do to pressure actual power and capital what what what Labor are they going to be able to withhold collectively that's going to grind the gears of disc it's nice to have stated it's nice to have stated policy goals but if you don't have if you don't in a way I half is basically all working for as far as I can tell is like you know they're all they all have a cousin who works for United Health or something you know like if you think that this coalition can could Amazon or aws or teachers yeah nurses nurses yeah I mean I mean that's the thing it's just it just seems to me that there's a there's in the first one hundred days frankly just not going to be that way it's going to be a longer protracted struggle and the thing about it is is that the the the secret move of the last think you're changing anything fundamentally about this dynamic you're delusional and so therefore that's why you know they'll pile up any bullshit to to to and now gb really clear he started out by being a one hundred percent war blogger war-on-terror class why on earth would we think that they could be point of the spear which is in effect the Warren Wager that they could be the point of the spear mobilized for sort of act this assuming the current coalitions assuming the current dynamic between the parties and going forward with it will by definition not change anything and will own have with your I who who all have their eyes on the mid-term that's what that's exactly what that's all that's all she could do that doesn't involve tackling one sixth of the has ever said that I don't think the issue I think obviously they're the ones who are you know by the more honest ones like like you know Progressive Neil Liberal moves always to say that we're the ones who are hand waving away all of these kinds of structural obstacles to achieving the Sanders Program that burn get in power and everything will melt away actually literally yet but what we do know and this is not to be argued and none not a single one of these mother fuckers has ever been able to to argue against this point is that the current system but in their minds as eternal but what I would say to them is you know what there's no guarantee that it would work burn to get in there and it could be a failure I don't know none of us entire career contemptuously and smugly punching left and like trolling the laugh as wash contrarian it you won't hear from me until the fucking boat is in the Wabe that under this program the center program nothing will ever happen and nothing can safety and that's okay like after a factory collapsed and Indonesia killed like vaguely dash killed like three hundred thousand people ape and continue to be so yeah and the thing is now post two thousand sixteen like all of these people they're perfect dream of Hillary Clinton was sir at best it's it's thatcherism at best and at worst it's actually making which is at least an ideological cohered program there is no alternative and it worked keeps having to apologize for past fuck ups like the Iraq war or maybe slightly less dramatically different countries have different standards I mean shit as long as we're talking about him I mean like why the Fuck Not Iglesias is like the perfect example of this type of person because he is someone who spent his I started blogging was fucking Glenn rental but he was he was he got put on by getting the coveted instapundit link longtime listener kind of just literally you know deeper failure of kind of making a limits of making the limits of your imagination your political credo which is just unimaginable to me shift civilizations Islam versus the West was toppled Saddam let's topple Iran let's just do it his his expressed role model run thing is we know we're an unsustainable course so if nothing happens then it's all going to go away anyway right there is no stability in your in your stable two party audience but never cons to the fact or I'm sure he does personally like internally that like he's still shitting on the people who were always defy undercutting sanders but at the end of the day a lot of it boils down to their hair wonkfest contempt for anyone who would attempt to reconfigure something that elitist do a fucking at pacalypse. I don't want to derail this conversation too much but this is actually reminding me of what may have actually been the most black pill thing we heard in Iowa even knows president I it just like that is the idea is like you get the guy gets hard boy nice in there and then the disappears politics literal genocidal madman but like what's so funny about you glaciers is he spent his whole career punching left but like the thing is to maintain a purchase on a liberal audience you know we're going to be reading this stuff. For years to come efficient markets hypothesis says America is poised for better tacos so he keeps having to revise sort of do these like disingenuous apologies for for past positions to maintain his purchase which is one of the lower tier guys going up and saying if you elect me and give me in the White House you will never think about the Bennetts said that you're gonNA are hobbits human city should sell land to the highest bidder Oh don't forget my favorite actual medically calms where he begins how to think about a mass transit show her member who Glenn Reynolds is he's disappeared from public consciousness now but that guy before twitter and social media he was one of the original blog hawks and is a of the European Central Bank oh he's actually the lore why obamacare exchange implementation is going to be the best correct yeah he's running for the captain of the titanic like I'm GonNa show up at the cabin for meals and I'll say hi to everybody and shake hands with the kids and strike and here's how I think you should think about these cases imagine that you woke up one morning to find yourself as the head of your metro areas mass transit agency so they're all they're all pretending now that they're on board for all of that but for some reason they have all of these I don't know concerns caveats supposed a total failure and the real beneficiary of that election outside Donald trump the fucking Republican party was Bernie Sanders who has now as sold in metric units medically wonders yeah I was a victim of the knockout knock out okay the idea was they should auction off hotel they should auction off restaurant reservations to the highest bidder because it's not fair it's what if yeah six six can you say that was September seventeenth two thousand thirteen I mean this was politics you guys remember the blogosphere shareholders My grandfather would say I think he's a gentleman and a scholar and we we've talked about Early Period Iglesias the fierce unfettered on Cox wore blogger this political rollout since New York City's ups progressive up zoning okay all right I admit I'm I'm I'm amalgamating cocaine that not for themselves and everyone else guys I think you can I go contrarian corner here from L. still you guys are being a little too tough on Matthew Yglesias You know awry found myself in chargeable medium-sized mass transit. Six annoying things about Roy Rogers Neutra Areso breakfast wrap being an this twenty twenty campaign completely shifted the conversation of like what is the acceptable policy like what are what is the agenda for Democrat running for National Office. I don't know I was blocked it was it's actually amazing experience to be sort of realized that you're absorbing insults from some kind of like so everyone can be a bartender or I mean everybody could be a barber everybody can do nails well everybody can do of nails and everybody's a partner then it's gonNa cost anything but you know but like I I've seen ah I gotta say he's Kinda Right Tacos have gotten better why America I've noticed that why market Mario Monti is the Lieutenant Commander Data Jin account that is like constantly showing up is like a you're not allowed to see this tweet or whatever this tweet is hidden and people are just telling me and like sort of indirect ways like I know the substance of some of his critique I don't think there was much I don't think he read it to be honest he says something like this Jackson to step Blah Blah Blah like Bernie the golden age I mean and this is I think we're going to have more of this tecom potentially in a in the doldrums of wanted favourite Iglesias but I think we we shouldn't neglect middle negotiators of the sort of money is this extra the money box I was actually reviewing the record and I'm just RPG badly misstated my arguments Iglesias what did matt what was his bone of contention with with this article I mean I actually can't remember it because I want more they should be able to express their preference by being willing to pay for it you need to deregulate barbershops that will improve pizza quality and up zone neighborhood this is a victim of a knockout game on a quiet evening leaving Megan mcardle house friend of the show is what does privatize the US Postal Service in yeah like a lot like that's sort of like the urban answer to learn to code is just deregulate all of the home businesses will magically make healthcare peer or whatever for people for people like Mattie there's a whole cohort now they talk about the Jakobsen Line they've done is like there's there's a whole group of people and they're very salty about this that are very very invested in the idea right now that there is absolutely warranted and sanders totally interchangeable candidates and that anyone like you know you or US or whatever who tries to articulate that there is a meaningful difference between we have to just accept nihilism on the class alignment question but if there is anything like anything like a path forward to rebuilding a working class party working class movement or working class led sort of vessel in American politics it's so obviously the sanders movement it was an they do represent a real ideological split in the Democratic Party are you know they're bullshitting they're being paranoid they're being hysterics and look what's worse than overwhelming support from teachers nurses retail workers drivers bartenders all the way down the line nothing like that comparable to the doing some of the substance of the critique I think he just like handed the handed the ball over to like Mike Konczal quibbling with date or whatever I mean the the it's not just an ideological difference you know they they looked at they sort of took issue with the polling cross Tabs Oh under fifty thousand you know under the fifty thousand dollars a year Warren has equivalent support as Bernie yes warren has started experience out of imagine waking up as management this is how we should all think about strikes your house I never thought this happened Chisolm what we're talking about is is working class movement of people in a lot of occupations who aren't comfortable affluent six-figure Democrats getting engaged acs say recently like I fine with Sandra's president you know I'm I'm rooting for the guy look like what does it say to you you just hits you yeah well shit pick up across the board it's not the case that every rich person supports Warren every poor person supports Bernie but what is clearly the case to things that is dramatic and overwhelming and the here's people getting involved in the democratic process it was actually really wonderful how right after this came out we stumbled the twitter sort of discovered that database where you could sort of measure the individual occupations of donors to the campaign and you just saw all these sort of ridiculous numbers where Bernie Bernie has of the you know Bernie's the higher up the income chain you go the more enthusiastic and disproportionate the warrant supporters get and among the among low income people and working class there's a difference in this coalition this same question that the piece is sort of based on this idea that what is is if there is a path forward because there may not be I mean mattingly's he's just came after you oh and I was like how do I even anyway whatever I'm obviously a twitter version because I don't I don't have an adult I'm not able to sort of you know I sort of actually people who are engaged at all in the politics Bernie's disproportionately stronger be has the support of not just potential voters but donors volunteers are damaging the the hopes of the millions of people who want you know it dep- trump out of the White House and not just an ideological split like this now in this process and trying to try to move the ball for their own material interests that's the that's the only way forward and to pretend that there's not a difference going on here between Bernie and literally every other she she's got a better chance of winning she's got a better chance of building a multi-racial working class coalition and it was just like Bernie Sanders you know from this sort of specifically second Obama Administration medical issues you know the author of such posts that acidity of the people who support him in particular and like they're still finding a way out of this and I'm sorry they've settled on Elizabeth Warren as the way to untangle they're all the again they claim to be for like a Social Democratic senator like the politics of Bernie Sanders but they find every way support among blue collar workers it's just that's what we're talking about an activated working class not just a working class will show up and vote Democrat because the alternative is fast unusually two three four five eight times as much of the support so the idea that there's anything like an even council had to be like well Yeah Bernie does have overwhelmingly larger support among much double to question and doubt the actual movement that he has created the people who sat and him in general the the going to be on board for this and like I know I know he got pissed at you for the article he just kept roughly like you know I'm not gonNA pretend I'm not mad at Matt Matt warn included whose numbers look just like Buddha judges on this on this front is is either blindness or actual mendacity my favorite thing on the the the well what did they know that we don't you know she is killing it among characters in New Yorker cartoons I would want my therapist to be a gang I Sunday's edition that is actually like it's not it's not the outright lying that's the most effective like the the most insidious way anyone other than Bernie but now clearly Elizabeth Warren is you both pretend like warrant is like I've seen people on TV say like Elizabeth Warren is groot I'm grew I was just saying like I think vice president of demos where Elizabeth only one out there that's talking about healthcare like we should talk about it as a human right or mis attributed Bernie's best quotes warid in several news articles leaving them incorrect which these people work their ways work their magic is just ignoring sanders entirely because in a way it's kind of it's an admission it's a quiet literally raver president you know that right like he's literally he's doing the thing that you are saying only Warren can do and here's here's this a tacit admission that these ideas are popular they can't be contested When you when you go up there and say just sort of how no we can't you're amy hilarious take who we're talking about this person's name like again like a Felix character like crooked grunge or something I was like tomorrow have a version of the ideas that floats without the coalition or without the kind of Organiz frankly anti anti anti anti `institutionalised poppy the the jobs and professions question was that on the top for Elizabeth Warren was both psychologists and psychiatrists and I won't be did but more than anything is just like to ignore Bernie Sanders is to ignore all the rally New York Times covering it with what page twenty and bring them back in his adjuncts but would render them less central to any kind of left political project and that's what they're that's what that's where they're dug in yeah good glad but what does this do you like people like like Mattie and his ilk are pretend abattoir in your polling at half a percent you know that's that's where you go so you can't take them head on so the what what you want the best possible outcome is to sort of gang gang guy I feel like he would he would just you would give me the unvarnished automated drew you WanNa you WanNa do more listening to fucking billy Bush daughter is on the right to to Merrick route she said she was like you know I'm for Warid because I energy that goes along with Bernie movement that would render the Demos and the think tank worlds of think-tank people of this world if not irrelevant Ortez and her endorsement of the whole point of this was you know I'm back post heart attack energetic I've got the strength throat does this is twenty six thousand people in Queens Bridge Park on on Saturday to come out for Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Calcio I just I just think fuck this shit man well now you're on your hard truth man tells American workers that they're going to be robotics interesting to me like we talked we talked a little bit about the rally to begin with like obviously there's somebody ways in which this entire class of people there the scale for the therapists they have reason to because they're going to be replaced by machines that profession is going to be automated to don't don't get it twisted for the morning lazing down the fuck arcane exactly honestly that's what it felt like to me and honestly of the cultural war context of blue and red on a national scale so why on Earth would we think that not only could they be potentially reliable allies I won't even rally we were all there on Saturday like I said I'm sure you saw photos of it it was the single largest turnout for a Democrat political then it's about where we're their own relevant stands and it under Bernie they're not the center of the action under Warren everything goes through them what are we talk about them like let's let's talk about the I I just felt so much fucking love on Saturday it was great I like the people there are wonderful it it looked like fucking everything you know we should hope for it looked like New York City it looked like what we want as a future for this country it was it was very diverse and specifically intergenerational which I found very interesting there were multiple families around us that had two three generations of people clearly say family sort of like white haired the station of this campaign I think it passed Kamala 's Smith in Berkeley California of it's you know blows away even Shit that Bob Moon I've got those stents and it's like my heart you know my my my arteries are just like a a freeway like gotta get Socialists Socialist got the basement it was it was beautiful I got there a little late and so I was in that long wrap around line where there was older parents and they're like you know maybe twenty something fail sons and daughters and then I saw a lot of young parents with very young shelter in there as well there with your son just like God uh I think he proposed a literal invasion of the island of Manhattan he gave me this line to after the election how New York produced Donald Trump New York is to blame to fashion some political movement that is premised on yes like a elite brokerage is doomed because it's going to get subsumed into the machinery because that's what it's there way he's not wrong no it's you know I mean you know it New York Produce Donald Trump and New York has reaped you know Manhattan has reaped the benefits of for Donald Trump if he were a new Yorker he he would he would have to almost self immolate because New York is responsible specifically Manhattan for all of the ills she's like look around you see somebody you don't know you promised to fight for them as hard as you fight for yourself five for somebody who has student loans even if you don't fight for somebody who doesn't have health care even if you do and I mean that is the only the only thing we have against concentrated capital is that of this entire the entire near Liberal era that we've been talking about the big fancy playground for for rich people and more importantly they're idiots was was really good and he is I gotta say like he gets a rap for people like John Five Star for being a one hit one trick pony yeah and Bernie was lit he

Democratic Party Bernie Sanders Bernie America Bernie Movement Matthew Yglesias Jim Crow Hubert Humphrey Princeton University Medicare Warren party Amex American Democrats Jackson Chuck Schumer Matt twitter New York City Fairfax County
NutriMedical Report Show Wednesday July 31st 2019  Hour One  Dr Bill Deagle MD AAEM ACAM A4M, Sonic Life BEST Whole Body Exercise, SONG of DNA EpiGenetic Frequency Mineral Resonance Therapy, Lumen Photon Infrared Light Therapy,

NutriMedical Report

53:49 min | 1 year ago

NutriMedical Report Show Wednesday July 31st 2019 Hour One Dr Bill Deagle MD AAEM ACAM A4M, Sonic Life BEST Whole Body Exercise, SONG of DNA EpiGenetic Frequency Mineral Resonance Therapy, Lumen Photon Infrared Light Therapy,

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We also have aluminum photon which are are amazing machines for stopping pain <hes> stopping traumatic brain injury inducing sleep. I use mine at night. The one eighty pad <hes> forced reversing dermatitis titus reversing joint pain stopping coronary artery spasm inducing mucus production and Airways Basma asthma or chronic obstructive lung disease. They're just amazing housing and <hes> when I started talking about some of our main nutraceutical today which we're going to talk about firstly if I think you're adrenals are low and you have low energy. When the simple vases saliva test we use eight data points during the day we can give adrenal support gland which gives you the glandular and the cofactor? I mean a nutraceutical to help selena lands function are drinks. We have ageless <hes> chocolate vanilla and these are amazing flavors mull feel but also will make you age less believe it or not repair your D._N._a.. And actually extend lifespan along with things like Anti Age Max and things like ourselves offense plus etc and there might a condo catalyst because aging a lot of his matter conjul we have of course our block to stop your summer allergies. <hes> in inhalant and dermatological Allergies Alison Med <hes> <hes> six hundred fifty milligrams per capsule the capsules what an amazing by less than half the price of allemand from Peter Jostling and two hundred milligrams more al-Ahmed. We have alumax Yes <hes> thirty capsules hundred eighty milligrams. Some people still like the old lower dosage that's fine. We still haven't anti age maxes as anti aging life extension technology links in your telomeres a fraction of the cost of others nutraceutical more powerful. We have arthritic this actually helps a turnoff for us. razboj inflammatory like rheumatoid and non-inflammatory osteoarthritis and Lupus CETERA and polyarthritis wanted to capsules twice a day. You can take that along with Joint Performance Tendon Mentor Collagen Max Accent Inflammatory River Staten this gets rid of the BIOS in your gut also box book guy which is elevated also to convert protein in your liver overnight overnight diabetic Statin only helps to get rid of dust BIOS blocks the access could have gotten Televisa's wells insulin counter insulin hormone bio alvar. This is actually a B six B twelve and full eight. It's a lower dosage of B twelve and full eight includes B. Six. It's very important for for lapin version of amino acids this genero transmitters and he talks vacation pathways. It's also if you have a sniper polymorphism of D._N._A.. Increases the risk of diabetes and perform neuropathy and and <hes> Bialowieza amazing product helps to convert five H._D._p.. Cross which is five trip to Feign that crosses your blood brain barrier is Serotonin Melatonin help you sleep Japan also common reverse depression by ten plus. This is the formula that goes along with diabetes and <hes> Berber Staten Two capsules of each with with each meal diabate Lean Burger Statin by ten plus and Dr St take one left and metabolic in the morning one of the Red Capsule Restore Your Leptin and insulin sensitivity you and your appetite control and lower insulin resistance bladder up this is a formula to reduce the bladder irritability it works for men and women whether it's woman with her either later on pressure are male with prostitutes them it also reduces through zero tation like low-grade infections like urea plasma realistic him or bacterial infection or viral infections wins or parasites and also kind of bladder gravel in the try going lower triangular area so <hes> one soft gel twice they usually offer both men and women bone generator. This is actually will generate bond. It's extra bone crystals with collagen bone hormones et CETERA. It's a very complete formula <hes> three to six capsules the half hour after you two largest meals brain mag this is not your best for magnesium across the blood brain barrier for your brain being these Clayson as the best for your body magnesium potassium citrate or stopping Stones Brain Maga's for your brain and your eyes and ears brainpower impulsivity and this is one raises is your I._Q.. Blocks of seizure activity Olympic system and the hippocampus it protects your brain from brain. A oxidative stress works great with cognition plus and of course brain Mac bugged bouncers so bounce the bug that you've taken Gallison Med creating file compounds and your sweat and take bug bouncer you will loppy bitten by insects such as ticks etcetera combine is so calm your mind. It's better than marijuana or alcohol. It has bio NAS atoll seventeen nineteen and Gaba <hes> fantastic usually cherry in any newtonmore zero flavor. I usually one scoop a two or three times a day. In eight to sixteen ounces of water reconsider all day long and evening. It's wonderful for keeping a common reversing anxiety chronic anxiety Kenzi eyedrops currency gene reverses cataracts two jobs each I four times a day have cataracts less than twenty seventy reverse three to six months or less especially. If you add things like lemon photon current de link which was our next product which you can take early and neutral Challah. We'll help reverse cataracts de linking the sugar to your proteins member current Zine actually acts as a reversal for singlet oxygen which is necessary so diabetes a free radical unless it's not just a blood sugar problem bunch sugar things happened secondarily the primary problems loss of superoxide dismutase one coppers S. O. D. one in your muscle and then you develop a loss of insulin receptor glued for transporter order so when you're muscles don't absorb sugar for fuel. The sugar backs up new become diabetic so basically diabetes exclusive muscle illness I see B._D._o.. We have the most powerful D._V._D.. Oil possible and they're fantastic manufacturing couple drops under your tongue you could also put a top on areas of pain. I stress depression even fighting cancer. It's amazing we WANNA raise the settle choline for memory for your vision for hearing for Balance Et Cetera C._D._p.. Choline or Saturday and calling lung with your Adid and Ultra Simond be one with Frankie delays which could rid a single auction reverses central and peripheral neuropathy and the brain rain and the peripheral nerves and also restores the subtle choline foresight valves hearing <hes> etc and motor power in the technical the mid brain which connected with Parkinson's we was along with mood energizer which settled thyroxine and bio L. V._R.. Et Cetera self-defense plus. This is our special super absorb curcumin the seven hundred percent more absorbed. It's the only thing that gets real cancer. Mother's soul stem cells could cite a kinds related to autoimmune inflammatory conditions and heart disease sell defense. It's plus amazing product. Sell the attacks on this is the most powerful form of Lewis I on removing enzyme <hes> and you you WanNa be isn't that you can use it along with some other anti-oxidants like ultra Simond be one other addressing live oxygen does Saudi textbooks arm gets hydro PEROXY radical L. H.. DUPLEX GETS RID OF HYDRO PEROXY radicals well cure Max. This is our accumulating of heavy metals <hes> two capsules for female twice a day morning bedtime and mail twice a day <hes> over a period of many months. You don't just take it for a few months. If you had mercury amalgams or heavy metal exposure Israel to say as a welder or toxic exposure military like depleted uranium you WanNa be on this longtime and we can do a challenge and then make sure the with your whole blood analysis. Let's say Meridian Valley labs grade plans lab exactly what your white blood cell levels of heavy metals are chromium organic. This is from John Hopkins University. It's the best form of chromium for lowering insulin resistance you can use this for diabetics and people lose weight <hes> What Council to capsules twice a day cognition plus raises your I q protect. It's your brain from oxidative stress restore neurotransmitters for depression. It's amazing Formula College. Max Is Not College. It's choline stabilized or socialistic elissa silicon with baton <hes> you can take that along with of course are pro collagen which is nutriments Royal Jelly one council twice a day. The College Max's One one cop twice a day. It'll restore your skin hair. Nails through here won't break off. If you're an older person they'll strengthen your nails. It'll make rickles Bo way to strengthen the Collagen in your bone and the Collagen throughout your entire body reps are Oregon and it also protected Alaskan so if you ever expanding high <hes> air to aneurysm it'll actually you stop it from expanding colon cleanse. This is amazing formative for clearing the plaque in your lower bowel one capsule bedtime if you're still constipated one twice a day and you get I._B._S.. Yes care which is a slow release form of valleys form of currency and stimulate monetary flexes to restore parasitic waves. If you have a hyperactive bowel so colon cleanse fantastic fantastic wanted to capsules usually at night or one twice a day copper agenda amax copycat regenerating the Oregon and a lot of people have loves zinc using Oliver Suzanne to compromise show ten to one knee accidental commerce. We have copper reject amax to take one capsule today with that coca jen supremely of coq attendant doesn't crystallize it is a spark debate. You're hurting our contract and all your country your body. There's a coq ten UBIQUONOL reserve for him. which will regenerate your gums crossed the blood brain barrier and regenerate activity in your brain your heart your your eyes and other organs it also reverts back to reserve for the reserve to the regular farmer co Q. Ten? It's amazing for him and I take the both of them every day and amazing stuff cocoon. This is our special white. Collar criminal won't stain your close. Whatever is amazing for turning pain? You can put it over your joints. Put It on skin lesions. Just don't put it over open skin lesions use D._H._A.. And pregnenolone for those and then new silver I then D._H._a.. pregnenolone cream defense wipes this will get rid of all pastures Eldest will he'll stomach acid and pederson acid reflux short your entire detri- track from your throat rates WHO director Sigmund wanted to <hes> chewable tablets four times a day gas resign. We've introduced about best broad spectrum digestive enzymes much more comedy think even teenagers believe it or not not just already community bulletin as these will get gluten sensitivity a lot of people even without ILIAC disease but was even ILIAC. There's some sneaky get near Diet. This will get rid of it. Gluten demand in between meals with maize. Just before we glycemic stabiliser blood sugar you can even take a half dose before regular meal block black carbohydrates amazing using for weight loss for blood sugar control meal Substitution Green Tea Supreme. This is ten pots of green tea in a capsule polyphenols detox for all kinds of toxic chemicals in your body body. POLYPHENOL chemicals will help remembering your joints et CETERA. It's amazing each duplex hydrogen. This is the <hes> <hes> the smallest antioxidant AH basically hydrogen in little scoot. Take a little scoop. Put it in your drink eight to sixteen ounces hormones energy. This is the WE CALL FLASH WAY STOPS HOT flashes and five H._p.. Crossing mentioned earlier across the blood brain barrier along with your bio Alvear reverse depression make Serotonin Melatonin half asleep and I've E._S. Gary mentioned earlier will restore your bowel mortality for hypoactive bell and help those constipated back in a moment with more amazing goals in just a moment your question welcome a one eight eight one eight sixty four. Oh One on health is his only this hour. Do you have difficulty taking taking supplements. Are you searching for a high-quality complete nutritional drink as your whole family will love neutral medicals lights before it has arrived all of your daily nutritional requirements in one quick delicious Jolis who's drink and talk to rebuild eagles support is a proprietary blend of vegan protein activated vitamins minerals amino acids probiotics green tea digestive enzymes resigned anti-inflammatories cancer prevention detoxification and much more your body will high five you for this report is the best complete nutritious meal replacement on the market whether whether you are an elite athletes have post operative challenges chronic illness elderly or a family once a quick delicious drink build eagles life support for a compromise nutrition gaining one great tasting smoothie just cold water almond milk cruise or anything else you like neutral medicals life support. Try our great tasting chocolate or vanilla today a cultural eight to one thousand eight hundred seventy one or visit US online at neutral medical dot com neutral medical dot com for the whole family legacy merchants foods is the top recommendation Dr Bell Deal for the Los Auction concentration largest entrees highest amount of protein the most varied entrees entrees as well for the longest food storage shed light nothing like legacy emergency foods and if you place a regular monthly order you get twenty percent off and Free re-shaping do get mercy foods for your supply for preparation and get it from legacy foods contact Dr Bill Diggle for the link at detrimental dot com go oh to the shop byproducts link and dropdown message had neutral medical dot com and then place your orders for regular emergency food for yourself and your family. Nothing like emergency emergency food if the power goes out and you can't go to grocery stores or if there's an emergency national prices so neutra medical dot com top recommendation legacy foods nutraceutical dot com go to the shop byproducts dropdown menu and stay well with nutraceutical every day of your life looming photon therapy infrared light foreign aired thread is extremely important for pain control summation nitric oxide group revision and stem cell activation and reduction size sky's Dr Bill use it for pain control for regeneration techniques for organ regeneration ten for stimulation of your stem cell activity with this amazing limit Photon therapy this year. We'll probably have an additional device with frequency therapy during the fazl likes to obtain a time machine in contact Dr Bell at neutral medical dot com triple eight to onto eight seventy one. He'll prescribe it lizzie providing nutraceutical helpless regeneration healing and pain control nothing like <unk> on therapy for the easy therapy for your is your pain your joints regeneration of Oregon's detoxification of the body any time machine from Dr diggle neutral medical dot com triple eight two two eight seventy one to stay well with neutral medical sonic life machines meanwhile the most amazing therapies the Dr Bell provides is the best sign we've exercise machine on the planet doing whole-body vibration opening up muscle to reduce insulin resistance improve perfusion release stem cell therapy body and genetically stimulate the body to release d._N._A.. Activated the genetic therapy with the sine wave curve half of frequencies given for atomic residents but silent linus pauling for minerals and amino acids stimulates the production of Messenger Naidu correct structural protein enzyme endzone deficiency for almost every illness. There's nothing like the sine wave therapy for improving body healing for exercise but also the genetic treatments Dr Belkin Elkin provide can help neutralize frequencies for disease states and Elvis getting sonic legged machines who Dr Bill Diggle at neutral medical dot com contact us at neutral circle dot com triple eight two one two eight seventy one or go to the website neutral medical and gives a contact doctor bills available to help you get well with neutral medical need a powerful <unk> allied to fight daily bugs and serious pathogens ellison met is the powerful universal pathogen killer's latest advance of German sourced alison ends medically stabilized to clear the the body of bacteria fungi Michael Bacteria and parasites it penetrates body biofilms and is non toxic to tissues pathogen resistance cannot develop for long-term embody optimize wellness clear stealth pathogens that promote autoimmune disease cancer and vascular inflammation and plaque and promote healing of tissues now pathogen free with two hundred milligrams more power than prior al-Ahmed. You can't get a more powerful ally to fight daily bugs and serious pathogens. Give your body what it needs. Alison Med order Dr Bill De Gaulle's neutral dine at triple eight two one two eight eight seven one or neutral medical dot com. That's AAA two one two eight eight seven one or neutral medical dot com and listen to the Mitchell medical report on the genesis radio network with open lines every weekday moocher medical dot com bringing nutrition and medicine together and welcome back and we have <hes> of of course health issues we cover everything and <hes> we have of course <hes> amazing nutraceutical technology and we combine it with medical care surgical care known in America okay but another countries around the world and I recommend test kits. I contend you. I ninety six percent plus of my concerts or fee people just say what do your problem now. Of course if you haven't zany products you have to do an email purchase a product you part of the neutral medical family you can get a callback but if you haven't in years you need to do an email and I'll tell you what products to start with. If it looks like conditions not going to respond or too complex for serious we can do a formal console which we get you to purchase initially at least two timeliness immunised start with an hour. We WanNA reveal your medical history. It was eleven page and take history form and go from there and then we review your lab work reports x-rays and specialists. This is not herbology Chiropractic this integrative functional medicine. I cover every specialty so <hes> that's really good. Let's go on with our discussion. Russian nutraceutical is now and of course I want to know these are very unique. We posted up here neutral medical India me. I've designed us. It's determined to pleaded indium. It's <hes> in the eighteen populations on earth that have <hes> one hundred times more centenarians live one hundred years of age. They have indium in their diet. indium helps to improve the in influx flex into your nuclear plasma little hold your D._N._a.. Of Minerals and minerals when Gwynne actually turn on your gene straight structural proteins and enzymes so if you take five sprays as of indium on your under your tongue bedtime and morning you're going to increase as before you have food or drink or anything else you're GonNa Greasy mineral inclusion into your nuclear plows turn on the induction of D._N._A.. To make structural proteins and enzymes we also genetic frequency therapies with sonic life. I can also do it through other technology as well such as a project entry and the program plus but <hes> the best is a sonic life machine for EPA genetic frequency therapy. We haven't Affleck's this is the old woman's uh-huh I meant for me at ten times stronger and Flam acts for ten times stronger plus Sara plump days we also have the separates Air Pepsi's called Theraflu to Stop Inflammation International adhesions agenda Bastard inflammation skin inflammation anywhere blood vessels. It's amazing stopping inflammation in production of inflammatory agency with your capsule of your joints and so on joint performance this onic acid it's great for not only improving the performance of your skin to stop rankles works low-rate with college Max but also lubricates take up your joints and helps make glucose meter hands the cartilage substance of your joints to one to two capsules twice a day. Take that joint performance with Tendon Vendor wanted underdo capsules twice a day <hes> and in flashbacks and arthritic so you've got significant arthritis problems in colleges Max regenerating tissue CARDIOVASC- deserve flagship shipped heart formula it stops plaque and embolism clots improves perfusion stops cardiovascular spasmodic the arteries and improves perfusion so we we have a capsule Andy <hes> drops fifteen drops equals to one capsule and we have great prices and great delivery. It's amazing formula. Take at least four capsules twice a day Kito power. This is what I have my drink rate now kita power with Kleist with you can if you're an athlete you want add to a sports energy light decrease the A._T._p.. And electrolytes to protect you against electrolyte imbalances with activity and the mega muscles amino acids for building up your muscles <hes> Keno power this is the keystone formula with three different salts of Ketone bodies to fuel your brain and your muscles and your connective tissues <hes> and <hes> also meeting change this right so it's fantastic for weight loss and for maintaining a brain performance athletic performance you can even do this with a regular person's but try to lose weight but just improve their performance either intellectually or athletically left and metabolic mentioned it earlier this will lower Leptin since insensitivity so increase Leptin sensitivity appetite control and lower insulin resistance. What your body one little capsule in the mornings all you need life? Support is our flagship <hes> drink link which has all of the components of gnarly the protein but all the albion related minerals major minor minerals and also all the components of vitamin row Max or mix are powder formula and we have the chocolate and vanilla. We have also different combinations of life support ageless etc.. You can purchase liberal flash. This is the conjugate a little ache acid. Oh my wife out of your fat Tissue One soft Gel a day or one twice a day. Take that along with four scolding McColl fat mobilizer helped mobilize fatty tissue wait living probiotic. This is the results extreme from Paris most research strain probiotic in the world and we also lived with product ultra. That's it's one hundred billion organisms one every third day. This is the most tolerated magnesium in the world that will not bother your bowel. I take at least three or four capsules morning amazing and stuff and I often repeated in the evening same bills make these in potassium citrate. This will actually bring up your potassium because you need these ms well but it also stopped kidney stones gallstones. It's so very good for stopping stone formation Major League no block users along with the logic asked to fight cancer along with Cell Detox cell events plus at High Dose Europe transmitter and immune system function so minerals plus important take one capsule of each and minerals plus twice a day invited mineral Max or mix powder Mike Konczal energy. This is the firm support. Your Mitochondria wanted to capsules twice a day fantastic for spreading disease stage a good proponent of the disease. This might have control dysfunction. That's why we need things like vascular care carnitine from the blood vessel walls or the <hes> I._B._S.. CARE which was released from a current teen CUCKOO CUCKOO TANNEN CO Q. Ten ubiquonol matters I._R._A.. This is Cyrus. Adrenal Hapless Alabama's actually is glandular and it has the Adrenal as well as hypothalamus gland handlers to support brain function any Drina lands as well. You can take this long with Neutrogena five drops twice a day selenium Christopher Eight <hes> for stolen and you're and minerals you need six hundred mils besides the new try dine which was plasma hiding not just nascent its plasma. No one else has mood energizer this new arrival this'll razor dopamine norepinephrine levels. If you have chronic fatigue syndrome Parkinson's disease and depression fantastic one capsule twice a day usually don't take it too late. It might be a little energized like the energizer bunny <hes> myself these three <hes> five thousand PSI I._U.. Soft gels any D. H.. Nicotine today <unk> tied Higher Energy Molecules did academies this you take one with cardiovascular loose blood viscosity and has Pekic your pure acquainting to make new mitochondria amazing stuff Nevada is lower triglycerides neurogenesis docosahexaenoic acid for <hes> raising the level of neurotransmitter of nerve by mile donation your brain and peripheral nerves for good for for Mama's that are pregnant because it'll make you have us murder baby was more mounted nerve fiber tracts nine ninety five Bassil Block small viruses bacteria passions bioweapons and smoke nothing like it and if you're traveling I would have massive. I'm going international long flight because the recirculated air they don't have any more in the aircraft since the eighties neutral complete. This is the best reds and Greens drink in the world. We have great Bellefield. You can mix it in with ageless or life support support fantastic stuff <hes> antioxidant activity trace minerals trace elements. You need to detox your body neutral defense. This is a formula that will kill kill all viral capsule earning D._N._A.. Viruses as well as bacterial cell wall of all pathogens neutral meal and this is the tag all pathogens viruses bacteria and fungi for all major twenty six major pathogens <hes>. It's like giving Mama's immunoglobulins to you every day even better <hes> neutral nine nine this is plasma I._D.. And it's the number one seller it kills all pathogens detoxing highlights for Clark Bromide will raise your mailbox potential your cells and tissue and help you fight low energy three states. There is nothing like neutral reversing hypothyroidism which is really common bulls type one where you have antibodies against thyroid l._V. thyroid proxies enzymes and type two which is insulin resistance related to hypertension diabetes which is ubiquitous. It's everywhere neutrality the only long acting like Pike Asadollah Block singlet oxygen radical reverse he will go but anyone see through silver my silver which is determined to pleaded several with liposomes fantastic way way better than the silver one hundred years ago. We have the dropper we also if you put on request. We have nasal spray bottles as well we can send you. We can switch your tips. Here's what your tips we have the dropper dropper and it's fantastic and putting your I._B.. Bottom it's totally nontoxic and it'll kill passage on your skin. Your is your most random keats. If you brush your teeth I'll make us supreme pro. Oh by the way can use that with a hydro flask for your gums or new tonight. Vegas Bream pro-monarchy lists ride. This is the most absorbed form of omega fatty acids in the world for him percent is that more absorbed uncle mice in this helps to fight cancer and also has a refining the verse receptor activated by Your Stem cells take it along with by red deer velvet the first product in the world patented and the patent number shelby posting probably today that actually stops aging so take optimize and then read their velvet. Take it also. We're going to be posting up all the major peptides is that we have and it'll be a special peptide dropdown menus. If you go to the shop buy products go to peptides. You won't even need a console now peptides but you need to have it for selective Oregon so if you're not working <hes> you can take the detect the testicle peptide if your if your heart you know for your heart heart pep dive a brain peptide we have an I peptide we will have these all posted up and you can purchase them and you take one a day for usually forty days and then take a month off and repeat. If things aren't progressing I recommend you do console but I'm GONNA make peptides available to everybody now. Positive all two capsules to tablets <hes> three times a day. Eh Reverses Depression. Laura's blood pressure proves mood and positive attitude. That's why it's called positing all power C. plus the most powerful vitamin C in the world calcium magnesium sodium potassium carbonate with by opera decrease absorption forty percent this will stop cancer cited kinds autoimmune disease and restore the redux potential all tissues and actually reverse in stop cataract formation. Your is power vessel B twelve learn flavor tablet under your tongue. I take one a day. They're amazing. It's better than the injection for yeah because it's already activated directly under your tongue goes directly to your brain heart liver etcetera pregnenolone to give with project with <hes> with the this stuff stops inflammation in your body and your land supporter testes and ovaries women and testses men and we use progesterone for women for postmenopausal a puzzle permanent policy as well stop P._M._S.. We have the pro MAG cooling gelato people dilute it. Don't take one drop and blue water. Don't just put it on full strength because it's kind goofy but it worked pretty good for pain. I'm working on a new formula that I'll be leasing in the next few months for pain relief topical right now. We have her Komen Kramer D._J.. Bracknell but I'm working hang on trying to get a combination formula. That'll help prostate flow <hes> you take one or two soft gels twice a day this reverse proselytism so you don't need surgery <hes> to help to reduce so prostate detoxification as well and you take that along with Anti Pass Jack's clear and he sells passengers Trichomona this or viruses e coli reserve positive L. Hertog this reverses balding <hes> three or four drops in your scalp rubbed in twice a day. We'll help reverse male pattern balding happens on women to have polycystic ovaries all vita barrel hormone levels on saliva testing <hes> otherwise they're getting Allah Puccio Riyadh. I used means abnormal cited kinds are tacking tells attack atkin hair follicles when we dead news things are not throwing muses like power CE- cell defense plus and other things to turn out of immunity. Read your velvety our our first product in the world and the W. R. L. D. Have U._S.. World Patents <hes> to stop aging returns to the fetal states three to four to three capsules twice a day royal jelly. This is you take college. Max gives you pro- Collagen to make beautiful college in your body. Every organ trapped in college and it helps you. You're joop. plumper skins takes away wrinkles makes better head of skin hair nails <hes> mates pro collagen Samatha this is amazing stuff one little sachet with nitrogen contains forty milligrams of ECE Mathiason for methylation decrease mild nation in your brain digestive enzymes and detoxifying metals and chemicals in your body and also stops homocysteine in your artery walls could fry Irvy's walls and your brain cells Selenium Christopher you take this along with your thyroid for Luzon Azzam proxy days and Sarah Flaws which is Sarah days. We have frank inflammatories. When we come back? We're going to talk with our friend. <hes> Bob Vineyard about a pure water systems coming up on our number two low aponte amazing articles every week Bill Warren. We'll be back in our number three for the first two segment ROB Rosalie amazing goals coming up. Stay tuned back in a moment. Are you still looking for that one iodine iodine that you can really trust a medical doctor endorse product that is backed by honest research and true integrity of science then search no further go to neutral medical Michael Dot Com for Dr Bill Eagles. Try proven time and time again to be the very best iodine available for you. News riot line is the only tesla activated Camman atomic plasma iodine in the world it optimizes might Okon drill function generation of new might Oke Andrea from totally neutralizing venom from the desert debris clues spider bite in southern California to eliminating malaria parasites reported by medical missionaries in Central India doctor bills you try Adine is simply the most powerful healing formula there is you try dine clears the body of all known passages restores into an alkaline state and even promote stem cell regeneration order doctor builds you try it today and AAA two one two eight hundred seventy one or visit US online at neutral medical dot com red deer velvet of it. D._R. is an amazing new product with a patent to preserves reenter bio-molecules six hormones same as fetal life where you don't age at at all the state of fetal life allows the three hundred bio-molecules and six hormones produced by the Placenta to be supportive of the but generation of tissues and organs was maximum eight pop doses are changing the tissue and organ structure of fetus. That's why S- fetal surgery is performed. There is no scar taking two three capsules twice a day with uncle my son Michael D to <hes> provides an amazing support for regeneration any tissue organ on the body and even advance stem cell therapy support treatment do get neutra medicals red deer Velvet D._R.. From Dark Bill Clinton. If dramatical DOT COM and new theoretical dot com triple eight to onto one stay well and stay young was made for medical. I'm Dr Bill Degan M._d. a e._m. a._m.. A FORUM OF NEUTRAL MEDICAL DOT COM and it consultants providing email advice free an advanced protocols for your optimize demise wellness and advanced technologies to heal and regenerate you even contact us at neutral medical dot com. That's tier I medical dot com or eighty two onto one to eight hundred seventy one you get email starter protocols of our top medical grade nutro-ceuticals initial testing and the recommendations for your own primary doctor to do as well as recommendations to give you an idea of consultation and a full protocols. Try to help you regenerate tissues heal naturally without the use of toxic poly pharmacy. I can send tests gets to you as well anywhere in the world and provide you recommendations referral specialty clinics worldwide so contact me Dr Bill Bagel at neutral medical dot com eh medical dot com or eight to one to eight hundred seventy one and injure medical dot com we have the most amazing drinks would best both fail highest quality by nutrient <hes> exposure to your body to heal and regenerate and the most powerful persistence nutrient drink to heal your body dramatically. We have ageless which makes you age less which Repairs Your D._N._a.. Extend Your telomeres etc.. We have life support the Detox Fox's face to detox pathways glue Purana Dacian sulfate and methylation pathway support. We have glycemic SA- blocks of carbohydrate absorption health diabetes for weight loss and as well helps with people they're trying to build a fossil using things like our special formulas from Dr Wolf called Mega Muscles between eighteen meals along with sports energy light. We have the amazing neutra complete the most complete read and re greened strength and the world the best most feel and flavor the off the Mexican to its mineral mix which is our fruit flavored mixed power vitamin stay well with neutral medical every day avenue and so <music> and welcome back up here Bob Welcome back like into tells why the system is so superior <hes> the <hes> pure water system gives the four phases please. Can you hear me well Dr Bill Because I'm hearing you weekly. You shouldn't be able to hear me weekly. We can have Tomas turn it up so you If you WANNA get all the way to the destination and have truly safe reliable water that is going to be there for you even in the event of an emergency that's it's not gonNA require you to go out and do some <hes> and get an an additional filter or go buy bottled water during an emergency. Even though you have a purifier our home that's just silly so our citizens are designed to remove all classes of contaminants now. When we talk about that you gotta understand? I'm engineering geek so I put what things in classes <hes> you know. I was on a bicycle tour with my wife. We were sitting with a bunch of <hes> of <hes> medical professionals nationals and I was telling them that they sometimes get a class to reaction <hes> if I get a bee sting and the doctor looked at me funny. He says what I said Yeah you know class. It's not a it's not anticlimactic shock and it's worse than just getting a little bump. I says you know class to he says well you must be an engineer I said why do you say that he says because you immediately immediately put in classes he says doctors. We don't put stuff in classes. Everything's got a name for the guy who found it so he called me out right away and and but he identified the Kinda Geek I am. I'm an engineering geek. I put stuff into classifications and so when we're talking about water contaminants that are water. They're really just several classes of contaminants organic contaminants now. I always wanted to make sure people when I say organic organic contaminants. I'm not talking about the same thing as your organic food. That's grown without pesticides herbicides in this case organic from the when we talked about the world chemistry mystery organic molecules have carbon as one of the probably the primary molecule or the primary atom that makes up that molecule pollock Euler compound so carbon based molecules are organic based compounds organic based compounds <hes> normally normally pesticides herbicides industrial solvents a lot of pharmaceuticals. They're made from carbon. A lot of them are actually derived from the feedstock from petrochemicals and so those are organic compounds those can be removed mostly with an appropriate amount amount of granular activated carbon now the granular activated Carbon House. It'd be kind of tripped out what they do is they take Cole or something like coal and they put it in an oven to about eighteen hundred degrees centigrade and that drives off all the impurities leaves the carbon <hes> in this surface I this it looks like coffee grounds but if you look at it under a microscope it looks like the surface of the moon and it's got all these rough edges in poor spaces aces and it's it's carbon so it's always hungry to attract and attach other carbon based molecules and it has to do with electro negative and all those kinds of things but the goal that the main thing is grandpa activated carbon if you take the water and you pass it over the carbon nice and slowly and you do it with cold water then the carbon is going to attack the contaminants will adhere to the surface of the carbon so you to get rid of most of the big molecules and and most of the carbon based molecules not all but you also primarily get rid of chlorine because chlorine and granular activated carbon match made in Heaven and so you get rid of the chlorine this where a lot of water filters you can go buy on the market your your little Britta the picture you know your little P. U.. R. Filter that you buy to Walmart he's snap on the India Faucet. They basically are a tiny little bit of granular activated Carter. They're not going to have they're not going to be a liquor. The first phase which is linear charcoal has long contact second-phase Eighty R._O.. Membrane highest quality auty then the third phase which is an ion exchange resin so the only thing coming out of his water molecules by that stage I call when you form ice cubes I call him Angel Cubes and then we had ninety perch churchman calcium magnesium to around nine and a half to ten so you have water that actually is completely devoid of toxins. That's not possible with any other the system whether it's a Berkey or a colleague or anything if I even from plumber there's no other system <unk> into the SCISSOR. There really isn't ah in just because the way we put it together like you say start granted active carbon use the best R._O._I.. Membrane that's out there are memories. All we all are members embree a wet tested before we put them in a system and if they don't pass our wet testing we pass them back to the company that we're joint ventured with to make membranes they sell them to other companies but he's for their cheaper water purifiers and so our systems are all wet tested. We know the quality of every member in that goes out of this facility and that's even the ones that we resell <hes> for for replacement parts. We know they're all serial numbers. We know when they're made. We know what the manufacturing processes we know what the rejection rate that membrane is. If it's less than ninety nine percent is rejected by us. We don't use it so then we use like you say the ionization resin the resins are tuned wound to the R._O.. Membrane because we know what our members are not so good at removing so we can customize our and cheesesteak domestic ratio of R._D._I.. Resins so that they're very well tuned in a fill and dialed in to remove those contaminants Boron Berates floride <hes> nitrates nitrates and nitrites the things that are always not very good at removing and then we add <hes> this nobody else does this. We had a <hes> an absolute rated membrane a right across the tail end of the ionization filter. This point two microns guarantee. It's absolute rating not nominal rated nominal says we get rid of about eighty five percent of the contaminants <hes> an absolute rated gets rid of ninety nine point nine nine percent so we get rid of ninety nine point ninety nine percent of bacteria system virus so we don't leave those little deadbug bodies in the water for you to drink and this is really important because it's oftentimes the Arina D._N._a.. In those little <hes> molecule in those little <hes> <hes> bacteria and viruses that caused the the inflammatory response in your body so we don't want you to have to cope with that. Even though it's dead it will replicate we WANNA make sure it's gone so we take it out then we can add the Ph plus module to increase the the Ph and add a little trace to calcium magnesium into the water and you know there's just nobody else who puts US system together in this fashion in such a way that's going to remove all the different classes of contaminants and make sure that you're safe that you're drinking the best possible water because it doesn't make sense to do all these great protocols for your health and live a healthy diet and then drink water the Scott contaminants in it and so you take out the contaminants you take out all the excess <hes> mineral salts that are in the water and this allows your body to detoxify so now you're putting absolutely pure water in your body and your lowering your body and avenue. You're increasing an opening up a a detoxification pathway that is somewhat hindered in blocked number one when you're adding contaminants and number two when you're adding water this loaded with what I call all the salt of the earth. That's not the way to get your minerals. You get your minerals from the food you eat because the food you eat is usually made up a plant. The plant's eat the rocks and you we eat the plants not the other way round you can't we don't get our minerals from sucking on stones Dr Bill. You're a medical doctor of a longtime standing down giving telling your clients to get their minerals but it doesn't work Leeann basically want Maryland organically Khalid in plant so they actually the plants by the way to get into Risa GMS come from fungi the key leading fun guy which is the agrobacterium for example actually key late so the rise on the planet can Glenna mineral then it actually creates vitamins and minerals and flavor and taste and color and then when lead a plant the body can use it because it's now organically Qadirpur sexually not even the the plant. It's the agrobacterium and mycobacterium the soil that fixes it even for the plant rise to take it up people know this and if you don't have acrobat back to you if you actually poisoned by flirting soil and Carol the agrobacterium your mineral content your plants drops and your food value and color drops as well people know that yeah well they don't we've got cities and communities that Florida the water and in your own home you drink your water consumption that goes for drinking and cooking and things like that represents less than two percent of your total water consumption in your home less than two percent so we got a silly government. That's floor dating all the water that's delivered to an entire community and less than two percent goes to to be <hes> consumed water the rest of it. Is You know what do you. You'RE GONNA water your garden with Florida and Water and that's going to kill those very horizons and the soil that would make your organic garden grow and flourish but it's not going to have all the mineral structure that it needs in the plants because community thought it was a good idea to Florida all the water and then they wonder why the salmon populations are dying because the salmon small fry Roy are extremely susceptible to Florida water though so you're went a condo. That's why I had a guy by the name we're not going to mention the second name but his name on on Youtube was Popeye and I'm taking this guy as Popeye. His brains popped because he's fluoride was toxic if it was really dangerous it'd be people dead in the street. The other people didn't the street we're seeing GNARLY ASPARTAME but toxic pesticides likely like roundup. This been proven to cause non-hodgkin's lymphoma has been actually I think career for lawsuit since last year totaling over to two billion dollars and as a result that company which is now taken over by Bayer calm out Satan Monsanto and the same thing with fluoride. Why do they do that because they can get away with it? He's regulatory. Politicians who can they