7 Episode results for "Mike Fennell"
Its a hit. Except when it isnt.
"It's a hit except when it isn't this weekend. Download the show. We think of shows on netflix. Disney amazon is being hit shows because everyone is talking about them. The truth is that largely. No one outside of those companies usually knows exactly how many people are watching so that hit shar might not be but can we bring a little transparency to the process and should we close the women who are taking on an adult media company. We also talk about augmented reality surgery very few of us traveling overseas anytime soon but when we do will you want to do it at the speed of sound that much more coming up. This is your guide to the wake in media technology and culture. My name is mike fennell and woke up to download this show. yes indeed. It is a brand new episode of download this year and for the first time in what feels like jahns. I actually have two people in the studio with me from the queens of the podcast. Right johnson welcome back. Thank you for having me. My game voice on down side la creative laid with yoked. Welcome back thank you all right. Let's start off with netflix. As i mentioned earlier you don't actually know when a netflix show is a heat shy but over at least in the us there is one organization who normally are in charge of writings are trying to change that to the very ominously named the gauge. The gauge is nielsen writings product. They're attempting to introduce that will monitor to your wifi and internet usage in order to identify when you are streaming netflix shows. And look. it's an interesting thing that they're saying that the only just starting to do because the products that they already on the do things like this already and we even have them here in australia. Nielsen provides information to the two writing systems that we have here in australia. They monitor about eight thousand different households. So it's not really an accurate representation of what we're all watching iva. The numbers that we get out of nielsen. We just kind of accept that they a representation of the broader population. What we're watching might not pay the case to be. Tv writings of always been bad. Yeah right right here. I serve is probably the bars like made it up on the spot kind of odd. So what do you actually get out of this and it's fascinating to look at it as you get kind of a pie chart i guess kinda shows you wear people's viewings up but there's a few things that obviously lax john one of which being like my jaw mobile and laptop which i think is like a glaring oversight and i think i think they're aware of the fact they plug essentially like into your routers connected to your tv. I believe is how it works. And it's like fourteen thousand televisions that they did in the us to get these numbers so obviously when it comes out go. Most people still watching terrestrial tv which is to be expected. But interestingly what they're finding when you look at that pie is that. And i think it's not just netflix. Netflix just has the biggest share of that streaming pie which stands to reason which raises is that it's growing year on year by six percent which is like a massive so for the last two years it went from i think like fourteen percent to twenty percent to twenty six percent so of the overall share of those. Tv's that they're monitoring so even if you're talking about traditional people watching traditional tv and maybe having net plugged into that that's growing six percent every single year which like rate hi settings must be like hank scorpio. This point does that work because now like the the big thing sort of change in the last couple of years now the competition. So you've got your. I mean in the us. You've got hype. Max paramount plus disney plot. The whole stack of them does that not had an impact on their share. It has it's a percent of a percent. So is the largest netflix and youtube. Have the largest slice of that overall streaming slice. I believe is how it works. But interestingly like you were saying before this previous attempts to do this they did it through audio when they were trying to monitor. That is really cool yay. How did that work is the device that you actually have in your house when you are in nielsen household. So you have this device that set up on your television and then you also have a remote control every member of the family way you press the button when you starting to watch something so it can grab the demographics of who in the household is actually watching what it is but it detects on the actual device. That's on the television will detect the audio if the program that you're watching as well so it's a bit of a cross reference check. Yeah and this is where some of the other streaming services like hulu will actually put little audio tags in their programs so nielsen will be able to detect when they are being watched on the television and this is what they've been trying to get net flicks to agree to as well to give them access to more easily. Identify those programs. They can identify what you're watching already. They just can't really narrow it down to way you're watching it or how you're watching it on. Smart hebei is in less. They bring the gauge the gauge. I think it was rate. Hastings is just really interesting in this because like three years ago when there were with the order stuff. Just junked it. He was like this. I think it was the strangest things that were trying to prove how many people were watching zyppah voting for rate. Hi settings head honcho. Sorry yes carry on. And he was like he's like this is so far from what it actually and it's like he just holds and i think that's the big pace here. Why nielsen want to get involved. But also like this. This two guess aspects of this creative and content from creative suspected. There's that classic story about house of cards where they realized that in the first episode source. Anybody who hasn't watched house of cards but goes where they kill the dog. that's right. They told kevin spacey and david fincher like hey ratings are dropping like the second like this show is going off the cliff ashish. I would tell us that. So that's a creative element. But then there's also licensing huge amounts of traditional content the battle of friends and seinfeld and all that kind of stuff and at the moment they really hold the upper hand because they get to say like the best. We have these. We won't tell you what they are. But go with it and now when this stuff starts to come out that kind of like if you of cbs or whatever and you own vast wears a contact you can start to have an even playing field. And i think that's what's going to be really interesting. Yeah i mean the only reason this product exists basically. Because the savings weren't tell you what doesn't work they'll tell you what does work they'll happily tell you that sixty two million households watched that george clooney movie. They'll tell you. Success is what you are is when things don't work if you're a creator or studio negotiating with them for stuff it massively diminishes your negotiating power. If you know how successful this show is to them. And i think that speaks to a broader issue. One of the questions with that though is is the daily sort of conversation around writings and results necessarily good for david right. Oh good for a tv show is an interesting question could for asses paypal when as a society. I think it's really interesting just to someone who loves daughter and loves information. We can get into bubbles in what we watch what we view. We assume that other people have seen what we're saying. Think how we think and actually being presented with cold hard facts that most people in australia tuning into the most trashy terrible reality television show that you can imagine. Mind as opposed to you. Know the really thoughtful investigation by current affairs. Show that you think everyone should know about. I think we need to know that just for our well-being so that we know how to operate within the world but that's not who these ratings are full of these writings aren't for us that ultimately advertisers when it comes down to it and investors and people that are looking to commercialize and make money from this content. I think that's true. I mean less so in the sense of netflix's who obviously famously don't advertise. But i think there's also a media hokey like. I've been watching this french. Show called lupin which is amazing fifty percent of that. When you decide you bet you just kind of that. He was more attractive idea. And this is a show which is about a gentleman thief. It's all set in paris. The whole thing is spoken. French subtitles traditionally. Most people would look at that. Go not don't wanna deal with it. It's some weird art housing. It's been a massive global success. And if i hadn't read about the fact that there was a massive global success. Coming out of france. Maybe i would have seen it but maybe my friends wouldn't have seen rockland convinced my friends to watch it because to your point about bubbles we all stay in what we know but when you go everyone's watching it not so good in the case of tiger king necessarily case of voices and people who may not have otherwise we'd seen it's a big thing is success if you can say something successful it's won awards or everybody's doing you can say that there is these natural like. Oh what's that about kind of reaction. Also lebron brilliant various. You should watch more than the first episode. Okay i've got a big list. She's on radio right now. I only studying exc-. I started watching. It became because it came up on the recommended algorithm something that was trending that people were watching which i do not trust as far as i can throw it. Netflix tells me that everyone else likes it. So i'll give it a shot download. This show is what you're listening to. It is your guide to the week in media technology and culture. I guess are ron. Johnson and john assadullah. I'm marc fennell and interesting story in the realm of adult content. Now we're going to navigate this as sensitively as possible. But if you do have kids in the car just know that we are going to be talking about the world of penelope although not in any explicit detail over the next couple minutes want so it seems more than thirty women are suing a woman streaming site called pornhub. Jonah y i mean there's a bevy of reasons Prime among them that there's underage content. That's going up without their consent that point hobbies hosting illegal content that includes very really kinda gross stuff back under a six right forced sexual assault. It's just reading about this. Has been really horrible actually but just generally like the stories that have come out as a result of this as being really horrible. So there's like a clause action that is under like racketeering laws in the us at the moment where they're trying to insinuate that pornhub in mind geek. Which is the canadian company that owns point is essentially profiting from criminal enterprise and that brought a class action to try and actually nailed into the wall on this one so right one of the issues we pulled hobbies the fact that it's kind of a it's a user uploads is based on youtube adjacent right which i'm sure they love that comparison. That's gonna make it very hard to police. I imagine right. Yeah and i say that they do have human moderators. But we have no idea how many human moderators and way talking about millions and millions and millions of hours of content. Being uploaded like in one year it was something like one point. Three nine million hours of content being uploaded in a year to be able to go through that amount of content. And make sure that it's all above board is a huge undertaking and this resulted. We i think it was about this time last year. Actually we pornhub had to do a huge herds of any of the content. that was unverified. So anyone can upload content but verified uses As the name suggests verified. They've had their identification checked. Your the content that they are applauding is more carefully scrutinized. We're now in a position where point hobbies allowing people to upload content again and there is also still historical cases of content that still exists on the platform. That should not be there and we've had victims in this case and in numerous other cases. Well if you google this just pages and pages of people trying to get the content off of porn. Hope it's just a never ending problem horrific. I mean you've got stories of people who sexually assaulted when were underage and they are re traumatized by having this thing exist for ever on the internet constantly being uploaded. I mean there are mechanisms. That i mean just to draw the comparison between youtube and pornhub together a little bit because there are some similarities. There are mechanisms that certainly youtube is put in place to stop uploading and certain things i kind of artificial intelligence to recognize certain images and whatnot. Why has it proven to be so much more difficult for pornhub to do something similar. Like is there anything standing in the wire. That cash is a big one vacant monetize against this particular the free tier which is what we're talking about here. So they have obviously like a premium level which is probably all above board all regular porn star the colorado the mill. Stuff that you would expect when you go to a porn site but what has actually made them a staggering success. Is this kind of like free for all where nobody's paying for it right. They're making money off every single hit. That got banner ads. That goes the pop ups the whole shebang so they have a real reluctance to get rid of that. And i've read a few stories about women who said that they wanted to get taken down and they earn about fifty like porn sites where they will just like change the name or like kind of like booted off to another website so it's actually almost impossible to follow that all the way through so that's kind of stopping it as well. They do have the ability to just hide stuffers time and then just relocated again not in their best interest to get rid of it. They've said that it is. But i kind of embiid. Julius about that and pornhub they is using a third party in order to detect certain videos that have been banned from the site previously to stop them being re uploaded again so that they awesome measures in place. And if you ask pornhub. They're doing absolutely everything they possibly can. Considering the huge platform they have in the amount of content that they have to deal with but the fact is it's still not good enough and it's having huge implications for the women involved the specifics of exactly what laws they bringing this case i think fascinating size. You mentioned earlier. These under a racketeering ineffective racketeering the compliance being alleged here really varied. Is that going to it. Hot of the loss to base successful given the differences in the stories. I unfortunately don't have a lot of faith in the lawsuit being successful. Unfortunately i think pornhub have a lot of protections given that they Aside that exists within the us and as such they're not actually legally responsible for the content. That's uploaded by third parties on this side especially if they can prove that they are taking all reasonable measures in order to stop that from happening and to remove it when their attention is drawn to it. And that's what i say. As soon as we know that it exists. It's gone it's gone however in the cases of these women and in the cases of many other women. That's not happening. They're saying it's not happening. I think also was interesting is always trying to google. Which again is ruining my talk nato. Yeah i know if there's ever been a successful lawsuit against point any of these guys. I can't seem to find anything. I think. A lot of suits have brought bought. The outcome is still pending. Oh quite a few of them. And i think the only success that i've seen again just to go back to the money thing is that neil times to be explosive pace on them at the end of last year. One of the previous suits was brought and mastercard and visa withdrew them selves as payment operators. I think it was for a period of time. But like that's gonna and that was what led to the per year. Was that kind of stuff. That people have to kind of vote with their wallets. I guess download the show. What you're listening to it is. You're going to the week in media technology and culture and no one s. I mentioned at the top of the show is traveling anytime soon but when we do eventually dyke packed to the scars and go overseas. Will you want to do it at the speed of sound. You're gonna be that desperate to just get off this ride. This talk about reducing airplanes. That kind of like it's going back to the days of the concord in a why it is that planes that break. The sound barrier the supersonic planes united airlines. Actually the ones that are looking at purchasing at least fifteen jets initially and then a further thirty five from a startup company. Cold boom supersonic. Who has plans to create a more efficient more cost effective and safe. Aw and maybe. I don't think it will be. The name is boon nestle. The thing with concords. I stunningly loud pliers and loud enough that they banned over most land. You can't fly them. Overland jeff to fly them over to say a lot of issues that came with the conchords especially in regards to safety as well. The last flight was in two thousand and three but threes prior to that there was an absolutely disastrous crash. Everyone on board passed away and it also killed four people on the ground so this massive safety concerns that have followed the legacy of the concord and put a really big roadblocking blocking place for anyone wanting to replicate that kind of technology united as interesting because they obviously have ports in newark and san fran which you're less likely to fly of land which is a huge huge issue that they've been having i was thinking like maybe they could do safran sydney stripe water. Yes let's do that. Yeah but yeah. The big big big big problems with him was fuel obviously in a much more environmentally conscious environment than we were in the heyday of bill. Clinton and i think that's all about like grain fuel and trying to figure out a way to get around that it hasn't been kind of stipulated that's going to be but i don't think it would be a good look for high fliers sorry about upon. Who were the companies. That are trying to be more proactive about the environment to be kind of stepping onto a plane. That is burning fuel. So fast that it's twice the rate of a regular ele- i understand the desire for us trying to work out. If there is a market for it. I think they could be a market for it. If they solve the problems involved in it but those problems seem to be intrinsically tied to the type of travel that it is and we can talk about sustainable fuel. We can talk about all of these changes that they've made but we're talking about planes he. I don't even have a prototype of this plane. They're looking at. What was it like another five years before they have a third of the size of picture at the moment. Which is that's how i always launched like really and potentially life threatening aircraft with with an image and then people just go. That seems good. Let's billions of dollars into that. It's perfectly fine. I think during something just giving me billions and must work right. Why are we wasting time on radio. We should be doing this right now. I think boom supersonic have an amazing sales team. That's that's what i'm going to. But they're not the only ones working on this. Nasa has been working on a version of this for quite some time you know the funding for that was grain lynch during the trump era which is unsurprising he would green light. Something like this. To be honest. I take forgetting that time happen. Tell me a little bit more about the national honor. Didn't realize doing. Yeah the the one that necessarily he's actually pretty cool because it doesn't use a sonic boom in the way that we think about a sonic boom the sonic boom is as loud as it is. Because it's concentrated in one place in this particular area it's kind of spread out and it and it creates little ripples. So it's what they describe a little bit more like a soft thump as opposed to a berm and this thump is not bad. It's a soft thump. It's it's a nice little rumble creepy. But what it means is that it's not so loud that you wouldn't be able to fly across land which means we'd be able to have more routes you'd be able to fly more times a day. The fuel costs would potentially be loa. It would be less expensive. I think nasice version is the way to go and probably more likely to happen. I just you guys talking about holograms lost weight conscious. Skip to teleportation. I feel like we also say this. This much just skipped. just go straight to teleportation. By the time we get this done we will probably there. It's funny. I was thinking about this in in part because of the holograms nas way. It's like i reckon because of the pandemic because we have been able to travel because we're all so thoroughly six zoom they will actually be elastic locked reaction to travel be like. I need to go to like even the the having you in the room like it was. It's really really really weird right because we spent someone's going to say good but it's like i feel like there's a thing in the back of my mind that's why we did it like this. We had people in the room. And i feel like there's a little bit of i think part of wide travels interesting to talk about now because i think it will go into overdrive as soon as it three allowed but tell me if i'm wrong no no. I think you're absolutely right. I think you know we. We saw that already with new zealand opening up a little bit of a travel bubble. Never being like. I'm going to queenstown where we historically in australia. We've always traveled as far and wide as we live. And i don't think that's going to slow down now that we've been restricted. The opposite will happen. speaking off. holograms is terrible segway. because actually nothing to do with holograms whatsoever download. The show is the name of the program. Listen to actually talk about reality. And john hopkins in the us team of neurosurgeons over there have performed first in the world augmented reality surgery. Raza augmented reality is obviously adjunct. Virtual reality is normally what you wear a headset and overlays digital overlay over the real world. You're looking through right. Exactly what was going on. This is so cool. This is one of my favorite things. That's ever happened so surgeons to remind you have a child. He knows he knows. This is something that was actually being used in training for quite some time so we need to preface that they didn't just jump straight into doing missed in the surgery but surgeons used augmented reality. They had goggles on their heads. What would that we normally use virtual reality which obscures what you can say but they used augmented reality to have an overlay of scans of the patient's body and issues that they were operating on so that they could say where screws needed to go and things needed to be cut out and he worked really well for them. And i'm very excited by this. So they're working on a on a spine rotten. Sorry i'm just looking at the pictures. Here is basically showing that you could say the actual scan of the spine underneath what are working on it is. It is kind of amazing. It's really useful. I've called a few friends who doctors. Since i found out about this because i wanted to see if they were interested in doing it. And they're all saying the big issues particularly when it comes to surgery is that you're dealing with really finicky really finite kinda movements but also you constantly having to move back and forward between scans and that is like a massive issue because there's roof aerostat gets left behind hopefully not that often but like there is there's a fallibility issue there that can actually be solved by this and they were all for it. Everybody that i talked to was like if this actually came off it would be phenomenal. What are the limitations. I would imagine and tell me if i'm wrong here is gonna be light nsee right. The latency between as you head turns and the image turns improved drastically in loss vs it at the stage word. It almost feels like you're looking at real time to images superimposed on each although a. Yeah that's been massive advancements. In the last few years i think particularly with microsoft's hololens project that's one of the more advanced ones that we're looking at at the moment but i think in a situation like this when you really are looking at a stable image you know looking at something. That is moving around. I it's just something that's there as a reference as opposed to anything that's animated you get rid of a lot of those shoes you might encounter. I think one of the problems. One of the roadblocks that we are going to have he is cost. And i think being able to implement the software and hardware in every way areas. Just not going to happen anytime soon. It's still going to be in that experimental space for quite a while. I think yeah been specialist wards kind of you'll probably say it with spinal stuff like we were saying and probably counsel as well. I think we'll be a big one. I think addition to to implementation. You've got the fact that in in the medical a doctor. We saw quite a lot like even trying to get doctors to stop writing stuff down and putting into computers so they had files on their patients the handwriting but like it was like like for a lot of them. It was like ten fifteen year process line and particularly when talking to surgeons surgeons specialists. Who are at the top of their field. I have a very particular way of doing things. And their success. Rate is like a life or death thing ryan if they get it wrong like you can have have ramifications. So it's like basically pokemon go who which is no but it's a nice A nice allegory. Terrible you on your essentially giving them like and they are very resistant. Oh is gonna join pokemon during so do it. They'll be warning signs up. As much as it will be the reason i bring it up inasmuch as it would be helpful to the level that you have to be at to be a surgeon of that quality you are probably quite a bit older right and so you're you're putting all this new stuff into the operating theatre. You're putting like headsets. Like it's a lot. And i think that the onboarding phase you're going gonna have to get junior surgeons who probably aren't at the level. Maybe they're assisting but they're probably not doing the surgery you know you've got that sweet spot where you've got somebody who's in their forties or fifties. He's been doing it for twenty years and gets it but it's still open to using that technology anyone young. They're not doing the operations that you needed to be doing. And on anyone older or more inexperienced with technology is just going to say no or they're gonna be really resistant to it right so all of those raisins. This is a good ten years a lot of iten. Yeah at in terms of like wide scale adoption. I think so right. Are they limitations. That are obviously this very very very new but the limitations that do technically need to be become like there's obviously there's cultural and demographic issues but other technical limitations also need to be overcome in the next couple of years it has already apparent from this this first execution actually think this is pretty reasonable application of oriented reality to be honest when we're not talking about anything overly complicated here it's essentially an overlay of scan or an x ray. It's what they'd be looking at on the wall in referencing but it's right there in front of them. I don't think this is something that be solved by technology. I think that this is a people getting used to the technology situation. All right i look forward to fight and guitars odd in my spine at some point in the next ten years that is. We've got time for ride. Johnson always a pleasure to have you back on the show. Thank you for having me. I enjoy listening to read johnson. You should definitely check out our podcast queens of the dargis available at all of the places where podcasts affair and jonah aside la creative lead with thank you coming back on the show. Thank you. I went to get some char's while we were having that little intro back at least share them not hand. Are the ones with the fire. Do you not know which one showers audits should cut. Admit it turns out gaps massive massive gaps. Thank you both for coming back on the show if you enjoy this program Headlong whichever podcasting i mean. You're already gonna podcasts. Unless it was thinking this on the radio leave us a review. It's just one of those things that helps other people. And i say thank you and give you socially distance hugs in return and with that i shall leave you. My name is marc fennell. Thanks for listening to another deeply episode of this show.
SSP006 Using Your Entrepreneurial Voice with Mike Klassen
"Sometimes when we are trying to present ourselves professionally our voice changes a little bit. We tighten up a little bit. We try to sound more radio like and we try to sound more professional, and then that will stress out our voice a little bit. You're listening to my class in professional voice over talent for corporate and training voice overs. Not only does Mike hand out a bunch of great tips like this on using your voice. He also has some terrific thoughts on the entrepreneur versus freelance for mindset, and you're about to hear them because Mike is today's guests on solar preneurs success. Welcome to the solar for no success podcast. West successful business owners gathered to shed true stories and sound advice to help you start and grow your own. Solo piano. Business comes over us and design the like you love. Now here's your host Steve combs. Hello solar preneurs today. I'm interviewing Mike Klassen of very smart longtime entrepreneur like many entrepreneurs Mike's background is diverse and in many ways related. I knew of Mike back when he was a fellow copywriter and a graphic designer websites direct mail packages or what? So Michael junk mail. Yup. There's a definite art to it. But today you might even recognize my voice because he's now an intimate professional voiceover artist. So like, welcome to the show. Thanks for the invitation in your so kind to say, I'm smart. I that that is overly optimistic in some cases, but I do appreciate it. And thank you for the invitation. My pleasure. There's a lot of different kinds of artists have fine art painters. You have graphic designers graffiti, artists photographers and a less goes on. But I imagine there's a lot of variety in the voice talent world as well. Isn't there? Yeah. Absolutely. What I tend to, to focus on his training material learning explainers that sort of stuff. But there's commercial things that you hear on radio and TV all the time. Time there's the phone messaging that you hear when you get placed on that endless tree that frustrates you to. No in where you're trying to get to a human somebody's voicing that. And then animation, that's I did a class, in that and quickly realized I do not have that sort of skill set, so just because you can do voice over in one area doesn't mean you can do it everywhere, and I love to teach. So learning is kind of where I fell into. Gotcha. So we can't blame you for the on hold background at least. No, I'm one of those you know, just like everybody else going operator operator hoping to get through. I understand it pays. Well, so I wouldn't be opposed to doing that sort of work, but it's not where I tend to fall into place there. Just call so overs. It's a cool thing. I think you know you hear about voiceover artists. But how did you get from copywriter? And then you went to graphic designer not your voice over artist. What led you down this fast? Yeah. Well, I started out in high school working in radio now, I was not some famous on our DJ. I did a little bit of. On your work, but a lot of behind the scenes, but in pushing we call him board, operator's, so I got used to a microphone back then eventually moved out of that, and went into computers and ended up at Microsoft doing some tech riding and whatnot. And then I wanted to start my own business. So I enjoyed writing that's what I was doing. Microsoft is a tech writer, so that's where I kind of started out and then by chance I added graphic design for direct marketing as a part of that as well. So that takes us to almost to the voice over my daughter does acting. So I took her to a lot of acting classes, and there was a voiceover class, and I signed her up for that it was a weekend course in Vancouver. I don't live too far from even though I'm in the states, I live close to Vancouver BC. So I took her to this weekend class. And when I came to pick her up each day, the kids were having so much fun doing the voice over, and that's about the time when I was closing in on fifty years of age and kind of reevaluating, you know, just what I want to keep doing do I want to do anything else. And as I look at her having so much. Fun. I thought you know, I used to talk into a microphone, so it's not something that's too far out of my reach. And so I went back and did some training, and that's kind of how I fell into it really by seeing how much my daughter was having a good time with it. That's really cool. I have similar kind of situations where our kids take part in different events. And we, you know, meet people or we learn new experience. For example, we started home schooling our family, because my oldest son back many years ago back in two thousand you know, he was just little guy. And most of the people who are in theater at that point, we're actually homestore's host knowing what's that? And so it's interesting how you can just make new connections. And the most interesting ways, and that's pretty cool that led you down that path that you're helping your daughter and then here, you are doing this. And, you know, I think it's fascinating. Now, here's the funny thing also today is talking with Mike before the show. This is my third interview today decided to do a whole bunch at one shot in and taught an hour long class earlier today, and I can honestly say this is the most, I've probably talked. A single day in a long time. And my throat started gets sore. I might sound a little bit horse at this point. So I was wondering, Mike is a boy of artists, how much time do you spend in your studio, everyday actually recording voice talking into a microphone in? How do you keep from getting sore throats and going horse like come about to go here? Yeah. Well, first of all, your glutton for punishment for doing all that in one day when you're not used to it and your voice will get like that for me. A lot of it actually was from the radio training. I worked in news events was a news director, so going on the air for long, periods of time and reading copy, you just your voice gets trained for that, and you learn how to I think be kind to your voice. Sometimes when we are trying to present ourselves professionally our voice changes a little bit. We tighten up a little bit. We try to sound more radio like and we try to sound more professional, and then that will stress out our voice a little bit. The other thing we don't do a lot of that we should in. General is drinking lots of water keeping ourselves hydrated, and then for me, I know. To take breaks a lot of the e learning stuff that I do especially stuff that needed to be done like yesterday. You know, those, those sort of projects where someone hires you and they needed it yesterday. So you have to do a lot, but you also have to be realistic. And so, I know that there are certain times of the day, that I'm better than others. I know I can go for a certain amount of time, and then I just need to stop. I don't push myself. I don't push my voice because you can hear it over the course of, of many hours of recording. I can hear if I've pushed myself because the first, you know, the first slide of an e learning project it sounds nice and fresh, and you know, somewhere around slide one hundred it's been this subtle change. And then when you come back the next day, you're fresh again. And then it sounds all wonky. So it's mainly giving yourself a chance to rest your voice be hydrated, not try to stress your voice to be something. It isn't. And then, again, like I said, in my case, there was just a lot of experience in my past where I was used to that. And I think there's. Just naturally were I, I can pace myself. That's great advice. I've been thinking a ton of water today. I think it's very interesting. What you said, though, as far as how you stress, your voice, and probably, I'm doing that because this is, you know, podcasting is new thing for me, and it's different for me to speak into a Mike Fennell debut soobee in a typing guy as a copywriter by main line of work. And so this speaking gig is is a is a brand new area. And I love to hear is going to be something that you can kind of train your voice into. But is that something that comes naturally or specific things I should be doing to help their if you don't mind? Well, one thing you want to keep in mind is a lot of things contribute to the stress of our bodies, and the stress of our voice, and as your new for this. You're thinking more than just you and I talking, you've got the technical aspect of what we're doing. You've got in the back of your mind. I've done this a lot and it's almost done on. I'm finally going to be done with this for the day. But then I've gotta do this tomorrow. So part of that is just getting comfortable with all these different. Things that are going on around you, as we're having this conversation. You know, you're probably keeping an eye on the clock to that sort of stuff, believe it or not will kind of stress you out a little bit just slightly. And then whatever stresses out our bodies that will come out in our voice. So you want to get to this point where you can kind of put all this other stuff aside, and just remember that we're just having a conversation here. It's like I'm giving you therapy. Now we're just having a conversation. Stephen Phil Kaye. I want you to lay back and relax on the couch and stuff like that. So it is something that comes with time when you can put all these other new things that you're having to deal with out of your mind, terrific. Hey, I appreciate that. That's the thing is, we want to have a conversation. This is not you know grill Mike. This is that the grill Mike our the conversation with Mike and enjoy our time together. And I'm enjoying this. I'm already running great things audiences as well. But I'm curious about one thing, and that's the voice over work for your clients that we hear about, like audiobook speakers. And, and those speaking tracks. I made a movies they get credit for that. You get credits, like on the back of your, your course you record for something like that. You get credits. No. No, nothing like that. Sometimes when you do audio books, you might get a percentage. And that's that's a whole nother topic. I love to read, but I don't have any desire to do audio books. They don't actually pay that. Well, unless you're a well known name doing a well known book, that's going to sell so getting percentage of a book that doesn't really sell that much isn't that there's a lot of work that goes into an audio book for e-learning. No, there's no set. I, I don't get a percentage of anything sometimes with the commercial work, depending on, if it gets used you might get paid based on it's going to be used for a year. If we use it for another year, you will get paid. Again, you're not re recording it. But in those cases sometimes you can get a little bit of money money back, but not for the type of stuff that I traditionally do. Gotcha. That's actually a great point. I was actually thinking more along the lines like getting your name in the book as as a person through the narration. Depends on what sort of narration. I mean, a lot of companies that I work with when it's alerting they want to keep you because a lot of the training material needs to be updated. I've done a lot of stuff where there have been. There are government regulations. And so if you know if government regulations eventually, they're going to change. Now, the company doesn't want to have to hire somebody else to rerecord anything. They'll wanna come back to you just so you can, you know, change a sentence, or a paragraph or two. But that's that's how I primarily get repeat business. Is when you work with a company that does a lot of training. They're going to keep calling you because they want a consistent sound to their training material. That makes a lot of sense. But you know, as of artists, you, of course, you have to get those first clients in the first place. So how'd you get started getting clients in this new realm? Yeah, that's a great question. And it's, it's, it's just like any other thing where you're trying to convince somebody to use you, and in this, this applies to copywriting design anything where if somebody needs. The type of work that you do chances are they already have somebody to do that. So why would they hire you? So you spend a lot of time, first of all, trying to find a company that does the sort of thing that you provide. So I contacted via Email a lot of companies that do training material, and that's kind of easy to figure out on the internet. There's lots of companies there's that you've never heard of before. I haven't heard of most of the companies that I work with before, but they are out there, and so you reach out to them, let them know what you do. You send them your your demo, which is about a minute. Thirty of, of you doing whatever you do best for me. It's easy learning. And then if they, they need, you, they will ask. For more information, maybe they will put you on their roster if they do a lot of e learning material, I have some companies that I work with where they produce the training material for another company, but that other company will listen to a bunch of voices and say, you know what we liked that foists. Or maybe they want a woman instead of a guy. They want someone who sounds young versus old, and then, they'll say that's the voice, we want so other times, you luck out, and you find a company that says, yeah, we, we were looking for a new voice we just lost somebody, or we were using somebody internally, and we realized he really stinks. And so we'd like to hire a professional. So that's, that's part of how I get worked the direct marketing myself I do have some agents though, I have one in Seattle and one in Dallas. And that's more for commercial work. And what happens there is that voice over talent signs with an agency, and then the jobs, come from them, like I said, usually, that's commercial work, maybe Amazon, or I have to be careful because I can't NDA's prevent me from saying who's hiring and whatnot. But I did complete a project for Microsoft strangely enough having worked for them a few weeks ago, and that came through an agency where it was sent out to a bunch of voice over artists. They had to do an audition with a short script. And then Microsoft, said, we want these people. And so I went into Seattle to, to record. So, basically, the short answer is direct marketing, or some work and from agencies for other associated like explore that connection to slow. But now is that was that for training material, there was actually commercials like a commercial for Microsoft software or something of that nature? In this case, it was four an internal video that was going to play as employees came in for a large company meeting, so they'd walk through the door. And there'd be this video. That's just on a loop kind of inspiring them of what was coming up at this meeting there came to an agency. So when you work with agencies like that, to get like a cut of the overall compensation or how does that? How do you work with an agency in LA? Yeah. Basically the agency will take ten percent. So whatever I get paid the agent gets ten percent of that which is fine because I wouldn't get the job otherwise without an agent. So ten percent doesn't strike me as too bad. It's not bad at puts it in their interest to give you more. Money because they get more money. So that makes a lot of sense to write in the in the joy of that. His I don't have to worry about negotiating what a price would be easy learning is, is pretty easy for me to prize commercial stuff. It can be used in so many different places. And the rates can be all over the place. I personally don't want to deal with that. So I'm happy for an agent to do it. And then give them ten percent if I get the gig that makes a lot of sense to me. So when someone comes to you might from voiceover, what are they really looking from you? Obviously, they're looking for your voice. But why do they hire you as opposed to just recording in house vote won't be the key reasons behind hiring somebody like you a couple of reasons? First of all, yes, you can do it internally, but usually the somebody in a company doesn't have a sound booth. Like I do. So I don't know if it can it shows on this podcast? But as far as when I'm recording my stuff into my software, the sound is very good. It's very clear, and especially when you're doing e earning you don't want stuff in the. Background, like Joe over an accounting. He likes to read, but then the air conditioner came on, so part of, it's kind of, you know, kind of muffled and, and then Joe his, his voice, he kinda, you know, he'd stretched his voice a little bit, too. So by the end of the training, you can barely hear him as he's kinda horsing out his his sound that's one reason, just to professional, a professional recording. Not only in the tone of voice, but also in the clarity. The last thing you wanna do is frustrate people with e learning material that they can't hear or understand. The other thing is just kind of basic. I'm talking normally here and so I'll speed up and slow down. But I know in e learning that you need to take a very deliberate pace not go to slow also need to understand what needs to be stretched out important concepts. I've done some e learning for for some training for technicians who install solar panels. And as I was reading that material I realized, if you make a mistake as a technician you could. Kill yourself literally, you could kill yourself. So when I get to that important stuff, I know I better, slow it down because this is really important. The other thing is a lot of companies don't need a voice over talent every day. So it's kind of pointless to pay somebody for that. It's just like a lot of freelance types of jobs, so good, just to bring somebody in when you need them. And then there's other little things. I mean as far as my personal when people bring me and I have taught before I love the teach. So I'm really comfortable with this sort of material, and at least from what I hear from my clients, is that that comes through. I'm curious when someone does hire you for a voice over project and you got the agreement signed, what does your typical process look like? How do you begin that relationship, and what can your clients expect what usually happens is, they know they're putting together some sort of training material and somebody on their side is usually writing it. And when they con. Packed me. They say you know, here's what we're going to do. This is what we need is far as let me step back to try to give you a more complete picture, often the training material is PowerPoint slides. They will be put into a video and someone will advance through that video looking at those slides, I'll be narrating some content, that's not necessarily on the slide. But some background information, let's say with the solar panels, again, we're showing you how to hook up the batteries and whatnot. There might be a battery of the picture of the battery hookup. But I'm explaining in more detail how you're going to hook that up. So then that gets all merged together. So what I'm usually, send is a PowerPoint file that has in at the presenter notes. If people have used PowerPoint before, you know, there's an area where you can put in the presenter notes. And that's where they usually put in the script for me to read from and I just read each of those slides into a separate file now we're really getting into the nitty gritty which might be overkill for some. But that's usually how it happens. I'm giving the script. I recorded into audio files, send it back to them. And then they merged that together to form the video that their customers are going to see that. That's great. I really had no idea at all. So I was really curious with that looks like and I tried not to get too good about it. But there's a little bit more to it than that. But that's the basics. They give me the script, I read it onto files and then send it back to them. That's the ultimate short answer. Gotcha. So it's like an MP three s and back as like dropbox share or Email, or something like that. I take it. Yeah. It's either an MP three or sometimes they went away, file. And usually they're pretty large so. Yeah, we set it up on a dropbox where I can just upload it to them. Gosh, it makes sense. So let me put you on the spot of it. Let's say someone they have an abysmal budget. Right. And they're small company or whatever they love to hire. You just can't afford Mike's rate. So decided to go ahead and record themselves. So you gave me some tips about voice, and he tips for first timers on recording. Narration with there's learning or something else. Anything that you'd say would become. Universal tips for our self recording. Yeah. There are a few things I've written about that before. So I it's something that does that scenario that you gave me comes up a lot, where someone would like to hire a professional voice, and then you get to price, and it's not that it's ridiculous. But some companies don't have that budget. In fact, no lie about an hour before you and I started this conversation. I had reached out to accompany about they're learning projects, and they wrote back and said, we're a nonprofit, we can't afford the voice over person. So for them, I would point them to document that I wrote that I have on my website about some tips, and one of those talked about earlier is just recording at about the same time each day, if it's going to be over a number of days, if it's a lot of material, because our voice, does change throughout the day, and I don't know. I know as a guy when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I have that deep really manly voice that I wish was mine all throughout the day. But it's not, you know, whatever whatever happened during your sleep, or something you kinda wake up and you've got a little bit of a rough voice, that's probably not the time you wanna be recording something because your voice is going to get its its to its natural point throughout the days. You start talking. So I tell people record at the same time each day. So your voice has a chance of staying the same throughout multiple sessions. It's called voice consistency on. It's making sure that your voice is the same throughout a long project so that you don't sound really low one day and the next day or you know, you recorded later in the day, and your voice is way up here. That's kind of odd for the person to listen to the other thing that I talk about is listened to what you record. I do this all the time if I have multiple recording days for the same project. A listen to what I recorded the day before and read, along with myself to get back into that frame of mind, that I was in and the tempo, things like that, so that when I start recording on the new day I'm kind of close to match. In what I ended up with the other day we talked about being hydrated that's really important because you your mouth will start getting dry. You're, you're you'll get little cliques in your mouth and it's distracting for the listener. So those are a few things we also talked about, you know, taking natural breaks. Don't push yourself. People think I've got to get it all done in one session, you really shouldn't because then that your voice is going to change the other thing that I try to get people to pay attention to is their positioning by the microphone. Let's say the microphone is six inches from your mouth one day, but then it's twelve inches, and I'm going to stand back here and I don't know if you can hear the difference, but I'm further away from the microphone. And maybe if I look over this way I'm still at the same distance from the microphone, but I'm looking over here instead of looking over here, those sorts of things it's just an awareness of your surroundings. So those are some of the tips that I give the people who, who just need to do it for whatever reason on their own. That, that's fantastic. Both as, as a podcast, or, and also, I'm writing. And I am entertaining this idea. I'm not sure if I'll follow through with it, but of possibly narrating my own book because I, I know how it went delivered. And that's going to certainly be a set of tips. I'll absolutely follow whether I do the book or not certainly, for podcasting and I really appreciate that advice. I would like to bring it back a little bit to appear business focus for a bit in the insured. I said, you're smart guy. And I mean that I say that because Mike and I have had a great conversation back and forth by Email for weeks now for those who are listening and one of the topics we've discussed as one of the real differences between a solar preneurs or entrepreneur and a freelancer, and I'll just share that your questions, Mike alone have really caused me to think much deeper on this topic enough, personally, found it very helpful. And so, I know you have some interesting insights on the differences between the two. So I'd like to open the floor for you to share your thoughts on what those differences are for our listeners share. Absolutely. You know, long time ago when I started I started freelancing in two thousand three. And that was with copywriting and I didn't know exactly what I was doing. Other than I knew I wanted to write. But I didn't know anything about running my own business. And so I was hanging out. I don't know if you're familiar with the book, the well-fed writer by Peter baron. Yes. Having a Michelle f-, okay. He there was a Yahoo group, which probably dates this anyway, a Yahoo group where some writers or some wanna be writers, including myself, who read his book, we're discussing things, and we, it was really a lot of for the most part. The blind leading the blind because we had no idea what we were doing except trying to find a way to make a lot of money being a writer, and we knew we could write or we believed we could. But we had trouble with all the other stuff. And I thought why you know, why are we having that sort of trouble? So my original thought was, we have a lot of trouble because we grew up in an employee employer relationship, and that's that's where somebody tells you. That you're good enough to be hired, and they tell you what you're going to be paid. They're gonna tell you what you're going to do. They're going to tell you where you're going to sit. You're gonna tell you how much vacation, you get and win. Maybe you can take it, and if you're not good enough, they'll tell you that too, and fire, you, so that's, that's the typical employee employer relationship as a freelancer, though. You are now responsible for all that. Okay. You have to decide what you're going to get paid. And when you need to take a vacation, and when you don't and all that sort of stuff. And that's where a lot of freelancers stumbled, we knew what we could do the writing part. But all this other stuff was really difficult. And so we were all trying to figure that out. And so my original thought was well, you can be successful as a freelancer, once you figure out all this business related stuff how to market, how to do sales, all that sort of stuff. But yet there was still a missing component to that. And I only discovered it kind of recently and I'm not saying that I'm the one who discovered this, and nobody else did before it was just something that clicked finally in my mind. And that was the difference between an entrepreneur for solar for Noor and a freelancer. And this is where really it opened. My eyes to a new way of thinking I see a lot of freelancers who are threatened because what they do is being undercut, the example. I give a lot as fiber. So as a copywriter, both of us, having the copywriting background, we know that there are a lot of sites where you can get copy written by maybe someone who's good. Maybe not for a very low price. It's not the price that you and I would want to charge to actually have an income where we could support a family. Right. Right. So when we see that we get into a panic, it's like, oh how my going to compete with this. I don't want to charge five dollars for for copyrighting. We get threatened because what I realized we're kind of defining ourselves by our task. I was a copywriter. I was a designer. Now, I'm a voice over talent that is my task. But one, I saw from some of my clients who are entrepreneurs. Is that they didn't define themselves by a task. They define themselves at least internally by their purpose, and I really had to think about that. I have one client who's done a couple of different things. And I've worked with a couple of his company's doing the e learning material, but I learned from him that his purpose is really environmental issues. That's what really drives him. So in a sense, it doesn't always matter so much, what he's doing the tasks that he's doing it just needs to fill needs to file into his purpose. And so the companies that I've worked with for him. They have a bigger purpose than just what the business is. And I began to wonder could my the way I look at what I do and the way I perceive threats to my task. Could that change? If I was more focused on a purpose, then I had to think, well, what would my purpose be, and I'll stop at that point to let you jump in, because I could keep talking until early asleep. I'm actually loving this because this is exactly the kind of conversation. We've been having this past few weeks is what's the real difference? It's all about mindset, and here's the key because especially for solar preneurs because we're sitting here often alone, and our bedroom officer kitchen or or even over at Starbucks. But we don't know anybody over the Starbucks probably except for the barista's, who makes her are lot or whatever. And it's like, okay, I'm doing this business for my clients, I'm kind of feeling alone in the world and what sets me apart. And then here's all these other people as world of competition, and I, I can go online and find people to do what I do all day long for cheaper. So what sets me apart and why should somebody come to me, and you're nailing it. You're saying exactly what our mindset shift needs to be in order to say, hey, there's a good reason why somebody ought to come to me and not, you know, Joe schmo, on fiber, and please carry on, because I'm loving us well, and here's the important thing in this, this can be very difficult. Especially for a freelancer to, to understand. If you are really caught up in your task and I keep going back to copywriter because that's where you and I have some common ground and that doesn't work out. Are you going to be crushed? Are you going to see yourself as a failure? Well, you might if the copywriting doesn't work out, but if you are more focused on a general purpose, you can move onto something else. And I'm gonna give you my personal example. I didn't realize that I had a purpose until I look back at my my career in my work and saw. Yeah. There is a common thread, that's really important to me to the point where I really don't care what the task is is long as I'm serving the purpose I love to teach. I don't know where I got that from. But I really do. I've taught some continuing education classes at a college got a chance to, to teach some business people in Australia. That was a cool trip. You know, to go to Australia and, and teach some people some some business related stuff as a copywriter what I like about. Copywriting is educating people. And sometimes you can do that through sales copies. Not all sales is bad, most of the copy that I write these days is just for myself to, to help other people when I was doing the design stuff, again, working with direct marketers, but I loved being a part of creating something that was educating people and I love this with, with sales stuff. I give the example of my grandmother. She was the type who was into health. She's one hundred years old, as of this moment. So she taken good care of herself. And she would read the stuff that came in the mail that most of us would throw out, there are people who like to be educated in that way. And not all the junk mail as you said earlier, not all of its bad, some of it is, I used to say, I don't write the lies. I just make them look good. But there is a lot of there is a lot of material out there. That's good. And I love being a part of that. I also got to design books for people in these books were educational in somewhere for them. And now in voice over as I've mentioned many times already. I do e learning why. Because I love the teach. I love to help people or business. Get ahead or, or become better than than what they are right now in some way. So that is my passion when I realized that I wasn't so hung up on how I fulfill that as a voice over talent any day, I could wake up and find. I lose my voice. I knew another voice over talent recently who had a stroke a year ago, and he couldn't talk for a while. It took him a long time to come back. And I thought, what would happen if I were to lose my voice would I be crushed, because I can't do the task and I thought no is long as somewhere else I can find a way to deal with the passion, and that's teaching people in reaching people. And for me that was just very eye opening. Like I said, it may not be an original idea. It was original to me, and that changed how I perceive, my task. I don't feel threatened by five or other sites like that. Because if for some reason, the voice over goes away, there are other ways that I can fulfil my desire to have this passion for teaching people in helping people while Mike. This funny. Because now now there's two things were very clearly aligned on and one was the cotton and background. But the other thing is, that's exactly. Why have a podcast now because I also love to teach that I find kind of discovered this recently, I've been doing it for a while and loving it. But it kinda just hit me on not very long ago that, you know, this is kind of like what I've been born to do is when I would lights up my face I tell people about it when I actually do it. I have joy in the doing and it's not like you said, it's not the task because I teach in different ways in my editorial copy for natural health newsletter. I teach Qadri writing classes, and I have the podcast you're, I'm writing a book always different avenues. But they're all about educating and the joy of sharing knowledge and that to me is why a love these conversations and I love the fact that you discovered passion and purpose for yourself and even more important. I love how you brought that out for audience saying, look, it's not about what task you do. And if a rate of loss may fingers on Baker. You know, voice it or don't know. But how, how can you move forward in complete kind of like what you're giving purpose in this world. Did you reborn to do something to me, I think it's to help people, and I love helping people in teaching his is kind of, like the, the gift, I would say that allows me to do that. And it sounds like we're very much aligned like I'm thankful to hear that you've brought that so clearly as a message to this audience. Thank you for that. And I, I love to, to, to kind of preach that message to freelancers because I know what being freelancers. Like I still refer to myself as a freelancer you and I talked about that, I have I have solo poor tendencies and thoughts, but for convenience sake, I refer to myself as a freelancer, and I know how freelancers think. And I know the struggles that they have, and one of them is being to married to the task and I try to get that across to them. It's like try to look. Is there something beyond their purpose? And again, that's what I saw in the entrepreneurs that I was working for. They, they have a purpose. That's what drives them. And so one thing. In particular, when he does one business and in starts another business. And I think a why are you changing businesses? When I look, deeper, his businesses still fit within his main purpose, and that's what drives him that's very important to him. And I thought, okay this guy's really successful. And the other entrepreneurs, I know are really successful and the thing that they seem to have in common is that they won. They have a purpose one. This is a whole other topic. They don't get on social media and complain about their lot in life or waste time on social media. That's probably an interview topic for somebody else to talk about the pros and cons of social media. But I see a lot of people wasting time when they could be using that time so much better. Yes, I've been guilty to pass it that I've actually made some major changes and how I structure my day and my time, and I've even used tools like Leach block the to minimize, for example. That's just that's why use myself I, I put myself on a leash literally where I say, I have ten minutes of social media time ever. Two hours that's it and during the business day up bogus. And so I I keep myself a tight leash, because it's very easy for me. Get sucked into that used to be sucked into the news. And I've been on, I think one news site in the in the past three weeks, and that was for all about five minutes. And that's huge for me and in level of productivity, but more importantly, the level of focus on. What's important to me? Is it really keeping up everything that's going on in the world? Did I can't change anyhow or is it's making a difference for the people with things that I can change? I can change by what I do. And so focused time that's so important. Well, I think in what you're saying, and I've done the same thing is being intentional about how you're using your time I always go back, one of the, the, the business authors that I used to read a lot of I don't do so much anymore, Brian, Tracy and again, I don't know if he originated the sane. But I sure loved it. What's the best use of my time right now? And if you continue to ask yourself, that I'm pretty sure the best use of. Of your time right now in the middle of the day is not, you know, what's in around on social media, or watching a rerun of whatever popular reality show is out there at any given time that really helped me to put stuff aside. That's not important for for me. The social media, I kind of do it once in the morning, once in the evening for me social media's not important for the work that I do for other people that might be, so, you know, your, your mileage may vary as they say, but I needed to strip that out because I wanted more focused time, our time gets pulled so many different directions. In any given our and someone I think we both know Mindy Macoris she recommended a book and the name escapes me, but it was about having a large chunk of focus time where you're just not able to, you know, the phone somewhere else. The, the browsers turned off, if you don't need it, because a lot of times, we're, we're doing work, and just little bits and pieces when it might be better if we could carve out say just an hour of. Uninterrupted time. I know when I'm doing my voice over stuff I can't have phones on that. We, we don't need Fullon's ringing in the background or a little date and saying, you've got a message or something. So in in my case, I'm kind of forced to have to shut things out. But I think everybody would benefit from that, and a lot of what we do back to social media. Get really isn't that important. We try to convince ourselves it is. But I think if we examine it a lot of cases, it's really not. And we could achieve so much more Steve, if we just kind of put some of this stuff out of the way at least temporarily I'm not saying, you know, give it up cold Turkey, but be intentional about when you're doing it. Absolutely mike. This has been great. I have one more question for you. I like to ask most my guess is question because I think it really helps not just put you on a spot for to say, but it kind of helps us know how you're thinking Ford. And that question is, what's next for you and your business. What one thing are you doing right now? Or or Mike. Why should you be doing maybe advisor coach or something to take your business to the next level? What, what's, what's next for my class, I'm gonna. I'm going to give an another answer. I guys I've got two kids who are just entering college, and as a parent. My most important job is seeing them off, successfully, like you. We home school our kids and my kids are both doing college from home. One is attending Berkeley, college of music in Boston, and the other one is going to be attending online college. In Florida, a lot of what I think about these days is just trying to successfully launch them into the world. Like I said, my daughter does acting in voice over. So I kind of manage her career she's doing auditions just as much as I am. And so that is a big part of what I focus on. I don't think as much about what I want for my business because I've got my kids for just another few years before they're out on their own. So that's, that's the main part of, of my answer is I'm really more focused on my kids than my business. The part about the business is I've. Only been doing this part for a few years now and it's still in the building process. So to be quite honest, and I'm happy to be perfectly honest with you. I haven't got it all figured out right now. I'm still trying to figure out some things. I'm still building a good, solid client base. So that I wanna do I also need to get better at commercial work. Commercial work is where the money is. And I'll just be honest money is good. I I love having a purpose and a passion, and that's really important. But I also like making money to and commercial work takes a skill set. A like I said earlier, just because you can do one thing in voice over doesn't mean you can do everything. And so I need to develop my skills, so that I'm more than just an elearning person. I can do other things. My daughter is an example. She's really good at animation. She has a demo and it's like I could not do that. And I don't even want to do that. But I do wanna get better in some other areas. So I want to build those skills up. That's fantastic. I love how your focus is your family. And you know what? That's why I started my own business because be stuck in a cubicle and have somebody else dictate my time to me, and that's why many people listening to show I either are in businessman selves, or they plan to go in business for themselves because they don't wanna be dictated to how they spend their family time, what their priorities are. And that's, that's a wonderful answer. I want to applaud you like that is on the first thing that comes to mind is not even a business. It's family. It goes, honestly. That's why we're supposed to be, you know, if anything that's what we have a business because who wants to support a family, and we, we have these kinds of super, Noor style businesses that opens up opportunities that we wouldn't have otherwise that, that's wonderful. Also, like the fact that, you know, you're open and honest in, it's kind of hard to kind of open yourself up and be vulnerable like that, sometimes they look, I don't have it all figured out. But nobody really does. No one has everything figured out. And that's why we have conversations with other people like this, because we sharpen each other's iron so to speak in a learn from one another and grow and. Just for basic. I'm I'm just blown away by our conversation today to be honest with you. And I and I think to the, the, the stumbling block that some people can have when they're being interviewed, and I used to interview people, you know, in a new setting than stuff is to come across, like, I've, I'm totally successful in everything that I've done, and you should listen to me. I'm still figuring some stuff out. So I'm never gonna be dishonest and make someone believe. Yeah. I've, I'm there the other thing that you mentioned though is so important, and I hope my daughter, doesn't listen in embarrass her. She when she started the, the acting obviously, she needed me to drive her to auditions, which are in Seattle, which is about two hours away. I feel I'm blessed in a way that apparent does not always get a chance to interact with their, their children so much. But when we're in the car so much together going to these auditions, I have a relationship with my daughter, and then with my son to, to a different degree that I wouldn't have if I had been in that cubicle. So it was good that I as much as I loved Microsoft that was the last corporate job. It was a great place to work. I'm so glad that I made this move because I've gotten to interact with my kids in a way that most parents, don't just because of the setup with public school and working and all that sort of stuff. It's nobody's fault. It's just the way it tends to be. But for us, it's, it's been amazing terrific. Well, mike. This has been a wonderful conversation, I've really enjoyed this, and I'm sure it's been help for, for many of our listeners, where can they learn more and connect with you? I am at Mike, Klassen dot com and the spelling, I don't know if you'll have those in the show notes because Classen KLA SEM, but Mike class dot com, you can also find me on linked in that's really about the only social media, I do social media's not as important for me in my business. But if people wanna connect on linked in, you can look me up on the, the Mike classic who does voiceover. So there's a number of us on there, but you'll figure out which one I am. And, and so, and then if people do have questions about voice over, they can Email me through the, the Mike classic dot com site, and I'm happy to answer questions. Awesome. Yet, also point out, you know, if you wanna hear Mike. Voice demo reel. You'll find out in this website too. So my class dot com will be in the show notes. But again, as Mike class, in with a K, K L, A S, S dot com. Mike, it's been my pleasure to have you on. Thanks for joining us, Steve. A appreciate the invitation. Again. Thanks for letting me share with you audience. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the solo preneurs success podcast. We hope you discovered valuable advice on how to start and grow your own successful. So leper no business come so with us by joining our community at start gross saw don't come again. That's stopped Grosso dot com. We look forward to seeing you that, hey, solar preneurs steep combs here, again, you can find all the show notes for today's episode at start rose, sore dot com forward slash zero zero six and in case you wondered, why was this episode delayed a week, his because my laptop bit the dust last week and I didn't get episode into production before I had to buy a new laptop rather than get frustrated about it. We just delayed it a week. But don't worry. The good news is no files for loss. I have dozens of great guests just like Mike appearing on the show coming up next week, you can hear my interview with Jennifer Alice who handles publicity and management for speakers authors and other entrepreneurs so make sure you're subscribe now, so you don't miss a single episode. Thank you for listening. And see next week.
How to get banned from YouTube
"You're holding a screwdriver and you hands. And if you unscrewed that device a tablet to fix it i potentially are opening up a can of worms. Yes this week on. Download this shark. Should you have the right to recant. Your technology plus. What did sky news due to get bumped off youtube. Why is one of the biggest movie styles on earth suing over disney plus and which ozzy tech startup just got bored by the founder of twitter. Poll that much more coming up. This is your guide to the week in media technology and culture. My name is mike fennell and welcome to download this. yes indeed. It is a brand new upside down. Let the shy at guests this week from butts. I dot com shaima span. Welcome back hello good to be here and analysts with these strategic policy institute arrow bogle. It's been too long welcome back. Hi thanks for having me again. The pleasure is entirely mind. Okay well i'm going to start off with sky news. Why is it that sky. News has been pulled off youtube china's so we know that the whole sky news australia after dark. Realm has become quite notorious for the concert commentary that it throws around and in a lot of respects that has become these interesting play for sky news australia on youtube so as much as that is going up there to the year subscription television broadcast audience and now to s- regionalist earlier audience five broadcast. These kinds of videos have been packaged up and pushed out to the whole world through. This guy needs australia youtube channel. It's had now like one of the biggest egypt channels of any australian kosta by appealing to that kind of audience and after a whole bunch of misinformation related to the pandemic and the current a virus. Vaccines you cheap has decided that. Actually you know what these too much. They have repeatedly gone against you. Cheese rolls and so it has been given a seven day time out seen being if you will and been told to sorry. Do we know exactly what videos caused concern aerial. No we died it. This is an issue birth with youtube. Transparency around how it applies. Disinformation policies writ large in general. They're not very clear about exactly which videos from channel broke. Its rules. i mean people are trying to reverse engineer trying to figure out which videos on the sky news. Australia youtube channel. No longer there. And sort of wheedle it out that way but both sky and google so far have not been exactly forthcoming about the specificity of which videos crossed the line us. This is the point that i kind of get caught up right. Because if the whole point is that they are in trouble because of sharing things well could be classified as misinformation. Let's be diplomatic about it. Then he's not like some responsibility for both youtube and sky to correct the things that youtube is decided Misinformation saying hey this thing that we put out maybe not true right. That's like a reasonable thing to do. Right arrow yeah. I mean i agree. I don't know if they agree So throughout the carbon nineteen pandemic. I guess a really interesting step up in moderation on on youtube it also say facebook twitter instagram as well. Because the pandemic and health advice is is kind of a clear align compared to say political misinformation the platforms have really been a more overt. More quicker i suppose to remove content that in their view poses a risk to public health. Could cause somebody do something risky to the health. For example taking hydroxy clark wound or even accton from saying that right against the advice of doctors against both medications that have been discussed on sky. News australia certainly a lot more. Transparency would be really welcome. So i think this kind of incident raises a lot of questions about youtube transparency but also about the appropriateness and the strength of australia's own domestic regulatory regime youtube since the early stages of the pandemic has been really treating covered nineteen as almost a test case of win. It is something so clear that it is about health and science and it isn't just a political debate. then they have felt more comfortable to both. Just try to remove things quickly. And in the sense of correcting the record their attitude has been to promote your who and cdc which is america's information body for the pandemic. So they been more focused on that idea of saying we will run links to other videos and other things that are froth authoritative sources rob than that idea saying. Well someone posted a bad video needs to correct debut any and saints. That's the difference between you know something that is focused on broadcasting and the broadcast. This should correct the record. This is something like youtube where it's just they to say we will remove things that we think are incorrect and we will more actively promote things that we feel having authority behind them. Is it enough aerial. Certainly in journalistic practice the tradition of providing corrections and explanations. When news outlets get something wrong is really important. But i don't think it reaches the audience that saw the original content. So in terms of effectiveness is kind of debatable and so that does probably need to be a new approach to providing correct information through these kind of platforms which are an extension. I think of our meteo ecosystem. Think youtube should be seen as not media and not a media platform when so many news outlets exist on it but maybe we need a slightly different approach. How has skynews reacted. China's you may be surprised to discover that they feel at ease an imposition on their free speech and he's a blight on democracy itself. So yeah it's a really complicated one when it comes to how they dealing with it but fashanu australia itself their responses very much been focused on the idea that they should be not told that they can't publish things the way they want to publish them. Aerial scott uses an unusual proposition. Right because obviously we know it. As cable news service that exists on fox show relatively small sort of viewership by comparative to other this to kind of really made things about them. That makes them stand out. Certainly they've pushed into free to original areas is really important. But then i guess coming back to this issue their social media footprint. It's really important for their rage isn't it. yeah absolutely. I mean as shameless was alluding to the. I encourage people to go to the youtube channel and just sought by top videos. And then you understand. Exactly what's going on here. I mean by talk videos. I mean the most watched videos because the top two rows or so of those top videos just indistinguishable from a us publisher actually. They seem to have no stories really about australia. Among those top top videos. I mean the top ones are about trump in north korea. As of today as of recording this video there about joe biden's quote unquote cognitive issues. Which is certainly a focus for conservative and right leaning meteor in the united states. there's a video about trump. walking out of an interview. Mean these are the top videos and of course there have sort of period interests may be two australians but they're not of australian news value arguably and if that's it strategy targeting. Us audiences as many people have documented. It does seem to be working out and of course as well. There are variety of financial relationships. That news corp is ian. We've grew cool. And of course skynews. A strategy is a partner in the what's called the youtube partner program which means they can advertising revenue off the videos so there is a really big There to maximize views and if they maximizing views by delving into the united states culture war. Whatever topic of the day is best. Serves that i mean. That is a revenue strategy. That youtube has put on the table and arguably sometimes encourages the direction. That's guyanese australia's taking download. The show is what you're listening to. It is your god to the week. In media technology and culture guests wake area bogle. Shame burn. Mcneil is my name. And why is scott. Hanson sewing walt disney sherman's look big stars. Wanna get paid and in this case. The star of black widower has raised one of the big issues of the moment in. Which is that a film that was contracted before the pandemic began has now been released at a time when the box office is not what it used to be and has been simultaneously released on a digital platform and that means it has a huge impact on what her final payments are because a lot of payments are attached directly to box office outcomes and not the secondary market of digital distribution. So it's a big moment. There's been lots of people arguing about these stuff. But this is probably one of the first times i sing someone hating to the lawyers. Yeah it's an interesting moment right so clearly. He's the end of her characters ryan in the in the molly universe. So she sort of free to kind of do this. I think one of the biggest issues when it comes to beat franchise films. Is that usually the talent. That's kind of locked into these multi deals. She's now not would same anyway. And of course a big reason why you get these hollywood actors to sign onto multi deals is that they get a piece of the back end of what happens when the film gets sold on and into what was one time video down to streaming services and if you remove that theatrical window it seems that there's a lot of money that they lose do you think she has a case there has been some interesting commentary around is a lot of people. Quite intrigued with this is playing out in public. Typically this might be the kind of dispute that goes straight sort of behind doors into arbitration. Something like this but as you said maybe she feels freer to take a stand. Because that was black widow was her final film in this sort of black widow. Run and wall street journal did say that. The decision by disney to put this film out on disney plus it's in streaming platform at the same time as it relates in theaters cost johannesen about fifty million dollars which is nothing to sneeze at. I mean that was just one experts opinion. The cost there. So we'll have to see if that really biz- out. I mean it's interesting. Disney plus really push back strongly against scarlett johansson and her tame releasing about how much she got paid up front and making all kinds of commentaries. So there's a bit of a war of words going on there right now. It was also interesting tree because rarely do these streaming platforms say how much they earn from. Releasing films and disney came out saying that it got about sixty million on disney plus of global revenue by putting the film out on that platform. So that's an interesting little dot point that we rarely get. I don't think we've seen the the loss of this. Yeah look. I tried to do some some maths around the stuff to try to spot. Where the losses. I and i mean of course right. People just aren't going back to the cinema as quickly as anybody would have hoped. They said that black widow deed released to forty two hundred screens in the us which counts as a wide release. Which was kind of pot of her deal looking back on it. Yeah something changes in game winter. Forty six hundred feet is not just screen so that probably played on maybe three times as many screens on its opening weekend black widow so far has made three hundred million globally in theaters and in that sixty million on premium access. I pulled up ragnarok because my ventures in game was like the end of the era for all of those kinds of i i of injured stars but something that ragnarok probably had a beat more of a relationship it had like a one hundred twenty million dollars opening weekend and black. We'd had an eighty million dollars opening weekend. But then a week later ragnarok could made almost another one hundred million dollars whereas by guido it only made about another fifty million dollars. So it's almost that saints of everybody who wanted to go and see it went to that opening weekend for the fun of that but most of the people if they weren't really came to go to the cinema full stop which i think plenty of people are just worried about that space right now then they probably the premium access version which means you can watch it multiple times at high time for that same thirty bucks whereas the be plenty of people who in the usual saints might go much a big blockbuster multiple times at the cinema because it's not gonna come out at high for months later. Yeah i gotta say as a person who spent fifteen years reviewing movies watching the industry now. It's very hard to say how cinemas ever come back from private. Movies have been presented with this alternative in the form of streaming services and premium deals. And it's just a little bit too good a deal for cinemas this is my personal taken blaze bio mainstone me. If you guys disagree but i just see cinemas aerial ever coming back from from this. You know these last two years. What do you think. It's suddenly a tough proposition. I mean maybe i don't think cinemas writ lodge disappear but maybe the amount of cinemas will reduce in so they will be stu desire to go to the cinema for big releases on sort of opening day weekend if you want the full cinemax big-screen kind of experience and certainly for a strong contingent of people. I think still want that outing. I once they feel safe enough to do it so i don't think it's going to go away entirely. But maybe they will have to base some constriction in the amount of screens on awful and yeah. I think there's an issue here as well right way if disney losses being potentially the greatest launch shelvin entertainment service in the history of digital right. Because the timing couldn't have been better. I mean it launched before the pandemic but it was able to accelerate massively last year and it's access and it's ernest shape of so many of these franchises. You know the fact that disney irons basically everything now when it comes to major movies and things man so easy for them to make that choice whereas we've still got a bond film sitting on the shelf now for a year and a half because they don't have that kind of a direct relationship they would have to be selling the rights to someone else and negotiating some kind of deal hyping that that would be enough whereas if a disney they know that this just it isn't just that sixty million dollars a premium access. They know that there's going to be a whole bunch of people who've also either resubscribe does subscribe to the first time to get access to that movie so there's a lot of layers in the way disney yarns every one of them whereas some of those other players this dealing that nine man's land wondering how exactly do we make sure we get the returns. We need to afford to have made a bond. Well we can also talk another time about the dangers of disney. Earning that amount of ip. Absolutely i mean it does create two classes of media well to two classes of movie studio right. I mean you can say that every single movie studio anybody that owns any any. Intellectual property is rushing to create a direct relationship with the consumer thought it is undergoing a massive change and how we watch and how we consume. He's gonna look really different than a couple years. Dawn download the. shot us. what you're listening to it. He's your guy to the wake in media technology and culture and a huge sale. This week after pie has been bought aerial. Who's been bought by square. It is short little name for a payments company are in by the founder of twitter. Jack dorsey why is de facto. Dorsey interested in occupy. We'll squares quite an interesting product and it kind of interesting side project. I suppose if jack dorsey who we all think of as the twitter boss he's actually being involved with square for the policy is to kind of building out a payment platform in the way they kind of sell it is. It's very much merchant. Focus so you might have somebody at a market stole at a farmers market selling loves of brand. But they have that little white square. You might have seen so they can do tap and go payments anybody that wants it so kind of helping move technology around payments out into the general public. It's an interesting tie cova by square the because off to pay of course is one of australia's leading by by now pilot platforms kind of ecosystem. That has really boomed in the past few years where people can typically biproduct online or in a shop. Get it there and then but then pay off the price in about four installments over a couple of months and i can kind of make sense with square sort of really trumpets. Its relationship with merchants and retailers and after pay does the same and it's really just another service that square and offer its merchants. They can offer consumers now the ability to pay up front of course but also this ability to pay off over time you could see how integration between two could potentially work and also with pointing at. This is an australian company after pie. And it's one of the very few ones. That have managed to kind of breakthrough. I think on a on an international scale yet and look. It really is a huge moment for these finance side of these trainings. Startup world when they're talking about us. Twenty-nine billion dollar deal squares market cap itself is like one hundred twenty four billion. He's a huge percentage of the value of square die. We have to make the joke that it's an all stock deal which is ultimately the the true buy now pay later at a corporate scout so yeah congratulations to square on pulling that one off. Its kind of fascinating. That square already actually had things like the banking licenses. The rights to kind of do all of this stuff and some of the tools itself so in some ways people have kind of wondered what exactly was square looking for but i think there is something about the fact that after pay was starting to have success in international markets. What it needed was more of the kind of scale that square can offer because it was starting to face competition from pay pal itself Which is launched. its iron by now. Pilot of service apples been looking at the space through its apple cod potentially so you know be competitive as out. There and square has kind of built the engine. Almost for these kind of payment system that operates close to globally at this stage. But it might be. That after pay is kind of improving itself. I think maybe to have been a branding bitter recognition Oh yeah just a bit of kind of peach into that retail space and in some ways i think square is kind of happily letting the square brand itself almost kind of fade into the background compared to return cash app which is an app that is huge in the us now but look aerial said earlier that this is the side project. I totally think it's the other way around. Twitter is the side project square. Is the thing that jack. Dorsey firmly has his eye on. It is the thing that has made him all the more billions. I think over the last five years. Twitter's market cap. Growth is about two hundred and seventy eight percent and squares growth over the past five eases over two thousand percent so you know in terms of which company makes him a bigger and bigger billionaire. Eighty is absolutely square. And this is where we're seeing kind of lots of efforts to keep exploring and doing interesting things in this finance market whereas you know. Twitter launched a payment service. Here in australia. Where i didn't even know what you get for paying money each month So it's it's these. I think is the area that he knows. He's the big pot of he's feature. Pay pack it is probably with pointing at aerial that pineap- highlight services and not without some issues. Yeah totally i had. I had to have a little off when i read the press. Release about this. Buyout of shares from jack dorsey. He had this statement about the aim of squares to make the financial system more fair accessible and inclusive and he put off to pay in. That bucket is well. I mean sure But there's certainly a lot of kind of ethical issues around by now pay later. Services particularly in the impact on young people. Actually ask the financial regulator here in australia. Publish this report last year around the effects that buy now pay later services were having and it said about one in five of the consumers it looked at in this survey had missed payments in by now pilot of products which meant though probably paying late fees all kinds of the administration costs and over that one in five about forty seven percent where aged between eighteen and twenty nine and about forty percent also already held some small to medium credit card debt. So that is an issue. He i think around. The targeting of young people i mean. Maybe that's another reason. Why square had its ion off to pay. It really does have a big inroad with young consumers and even if they don't have a credit card it is a new way to get in debt at the end of the day indeed or and finally he on download the show. Shoot you have the right to repair your technology when something goes horribly wrong. This is part of i. Guess manifesto about the to repay. That's under debate at the moment. Reo yeah the productivity commission here in australia has been looking at these question of the right to repay. I think for the average person you probably would assume yes. I have the right to repay my stuff like you know you certainly. If you break a table you might give it a go fixing it yourself. You might call in the company to help you but it gets really complicated when it comes to technology of course never say fired a laptop these all quite complex. Bits of gear and finding the right person to fix it as hard and then of course. There's this issue that has really been playing out of the poppy. Use that a lot of technology companies. Either us specifically say or imply that you might void your warranty if you don't use them or as sort of repair institution that's gotten an antique from the company. And you might sort of lose some of your privileges around warranty and other things and that's not necessarily always legal here in australia. But it's kicked off this debate about the writer pay here and whether it needs stronger. Protections for consumers canal consumable so what's been proposed as a i guess as a change china's so i guess there is kind of a whole bunch of submissions to productivity commission inquiry into this holes. That abroad repair. I find it gets kind of really complicated when it comes to high tolerance technologies like smartphones and things because it is so easy for someone to make a mistake and and then how that sort of leads to the original manufacturer needing to deal with the classic issue being exploding funds that a fine catches fire and it turns out it was the potty battery replacement or something like that. It's not always that the case but that has definitely been sort of one of those areas where it becomes an issue but it also is about the idea that this is about not just tick it's about qasr and evenings like open source three d printable spare parts like there's all these kinds of new areas that i think this is where you're writing about some of these recommendations of people who've be making into these inquiry does try to point it all these kinds of areas that we should be trying to sit the rules around to give people that decide. If if i want to do a personal repair on a piece of technology then i should be able to go and your source a pot myself or to have options available rather than having these things stamped out you know one of the areas that is an issue is even things like well. If we're going to allow third parties to do repairs they need to also have permission to say which brands they can repair but often being area where you know companies will say you have no permission to use brand. So there's so many little kind of lays here as to exactly the rules need to be to ensure that that what might be fair or conceded within the law on one hand isn't just kind of being stamped out because someone says well dicon us brand in anything that they say about tech and therefore you wouldn't even know where to go to find a third party repair even if it was legal area on some level. This is a little bit of a no brainer. Because i mean certainly in terms of things like the ability to repair technology as opposed to what so many of us do which is just like replace it. You've got to figure that slightly and have a big impact on waste. Yeah absolutely that's another concern that productivity commission is looking into and one. That's i think people have an awareness of this. Certainly people are often aware that they can drop off like old laptops old smartphones to council. So they can get properly recycled. Of course there are sometimes issues toxicity. In parts of technology that gets thrown away true. But i i really do think we caught cape consuming on new items at the right. We are and just throwing them away when the battery runs down we really need to be looking into a much stronger economy around repair much stronger guidelines around our rights to repairs an access as well. Because as i'm shameless is alluding to you this sometimes. It's really hard to even know where to go. to get stuff repaired and to understand you know what about your phone could be improved for example beyond fix to a cracked screen or a new battery. Because there are a lot of tinkering that can take place if you have the right know-how and skills shaima now that we have this productivity commission report. How do you think this is all going to play out. I definitely think they'll they'll be some opening up and ensuring that we have some rules in place that try to leave the door open for people to get things done if they want to go and find out how to do it in a secondary market where it does get complicated. We'll be will we get rules around. Things like open source libraries of principle pots. Yeah that's kind of something. That sometimes i think can be beyond government planning when it comes to rewriting rules for. We'd edge cases of internet culture. That actually have real value in this kind of spice but yeah warranty is going to be a really tricky one. Because you will. They set rules in place. That say okay you can go and get it repaired in some place but then if something goes wrong who is going to be left holding the bag will at that third party repair have to will they be able to keep the can down the road and say actually that wasn't asked that was the original and do people get left in the middle so that is where it's going to be really a real tension there of who exactly is going to be responsible in those cases where something gets repaid about dane. Something does go wrong. Guess we'll just have to wait and say shammas burn from side. Thank you so much coming back on the show. Good to be here and arrow bogle from the australian strategic policy institute. Thank you so much for having me and with that chalet. My name is mike fennell and thanks for listening to another episode of download this show.
205: Toxic Treats
"And welcome to the podcast. But the vet gurus brandon and mock. Get ready for the lightest. Veterinary news information and entertainment. Don't forget to visit us. At the vet gurus website vet gurus dot com. Now sit back. Relax it's up to the vet gurus brandon and mock. Come to the vagaries brennan. He with mac hip aside two hundred and four. Friday september mock september third. Two thousand twenty one. I'm we're a little bit of routine here at my recording in. Turn that off. I just remembered that that were recording. Just in the middle of the dice out. I'll tell you what i've been doing this money. Because they've had actually quite a good day here. Which is a bit of a surprise in melbourne coming into into spring are in springing amac in the southern hemisphere and looking forward to some aloma weather. And that's been a beautiful die. He mac and fortunately have a day off mid week and of beggining back into a little bit of the woodwork. Michael been in trying to do some. Dale joints put in little pigs in little wooden pigs in house and hiding the joints and just been potter in this morning. Two or three as ad in the backyard in the sunshine in the shade house. You del joints cowing brin who was quite a relaxing goodwill mike in a little just a ton very bisi box basically so fi has a couple of plants on the the plants cape multiply and mike inside the house and And he's put a few more plants in size a kept in her room. Say she wants a little stand. Put plants on sire. A mikey keanae. Little custom-built really really really bisi box on just hide in the joins widsom details. Because i thought be something fun to try and yeah did finished up. All the dow johnson sort of did it by seek dry fit and it seems to all come together. Cy how it might be this afternoon. Or on the way kindle. Oh i'm global up and put it all together and then they'll just pay them. Finalizing of sir put a bit of them Probably a bit of wax on it as i do these days a lot. Look at this or a natural waxes and have you ever what what sort of clamps brennan clans. Well would work in. it's always he can never have enough clamps as the answer. Say and up by more more clamps i just the bicyc- sort of many clamps. I'm the instinct clamps. I have one code i A what did it's one that you can put a read the whole sort of box type structure Forgotten the night strap clamp sort of and then i have a couple of Ones fed longer paces which a little fiddly but the very effective no co pot clamps basically used sort of plumbing pipe with little wretched system monday chained in they had really long long paces. Like if you make an a table or something that Torelli us is but yet they can never have enough clamps at his true. You end up his cyanide. Just need to put one more client on when you think you've seen a couple of pitchers with some of my would work in It being clamped and you have clamps going every which way and end up with bet ten or fifteen clamps on one pace of of of work here sigh yes i'll bet enjoy that quite quite as dice ofa marketed. Ceo sending quite relaxed. And that's probably why the way that at just partner aunt mind off veterinary work and to in a little bit of woodwork. And my plan is after we record mac to maybe say what sorts of beverages in the frigid and tight. What of them and go back outside. Sit on their little land amac and pretend to listen to another podcast though or the news or or read. A book caught and probably not offer a little little nap this afternoon. So that's my plan. Mike would have been up to while we've been We've just driven from ada violin queensland to kuby and set up the mobile studio on the mobile podcast studio and And it's a serendipitous brennan because some on this trip We've been doing a lot of bird watching in today. We saw a first flock. Budgerigars had a west end. So it's sort of leads neatly into some of the unused later on. So i'm excited about that. Yes i'll be very interested in your comments on both the or all three news stories. Actually mac so am one of them wasted a snacking doing little chat which will talk about in a second. But before we do that just pointlessness to veterans dot com. Send an email to figures at james dot com. If you want to say hello to his and we did get some Some reply marks. I'm to comments last week. All the white before bat. Should we have any merchandise. And my god a very very strong positive from while especially what avail listeners didn't we. I think i've heard it to you. Sign if we had some merchandise especially some hoodies or something like that. Then i would definitely go at by them. Si- maybe we should have a bit of everything about whether or not. We should have some merchandise him. What am i do. Mike over the next Waco so is all put together a bit of an idea of what what we could put on. That would obviously have a little low guy but what indicate these things a little bit more subtle. We could have a big lie guy. But i'm paps small lie gallon than little a little them little grab a little A little verse underneath and of a couple of id's that genius options we latin. Say what you think. And if do subtlety and used of witticism. So i'm looking forward to that already. Do go down that path. mike. I think what will win nut during his. What a lot of people do with this. I'm sort of merchandise artons for for small production runs. We just get them sort of outsourced and might make up the zion. Leon them so we just kicked him very very cost effective and raised moland they They print on demand. I think am these days. Yeah i'm perhaps we may have something soon so look forward to that old not up. We go with that but yeah a news story. I wanted to chat about mic geronimo. The alpaca and i think of saint you that the The result of that drama. The alpaca voted on drawn. Recently pat top del. Pack that tested positive twice for by von tuberculosis in the uk was finally euthanized march Even though there was a big protest outside the farm By animal activists and journalists who have been camping out in the farm one hundred seventy five kilometers west of london variant to stop the killing. The department Arrives erin with the department vets and they took the drama hawaii and i have declared drawer. My is no longer cy bit of azad story but a minute. I think we did talk about it last time. Didn't we mike and let it join my did test. Positive twice in two different types of tests and Though very certain that time it was the would suddenly ni- false positive of it and That particular disease is is a worry. I'm anaya trying to eliminate it in the uk Any comments thoughts on this. Well i think you know we we were talking about this when we spoke about jeremiah before we would talking about net good and it upsets me brandon because the thousands of dollars that was spent on court cases and the emotion and physical if at that people put into protest. I dunno on look. Evan has to make the decision about how their results his mike. The world of at apply. Ace i don't know this was the most valuable use of those things to make the world a better place It's it's sad. It's i think. I can quite the spokesperson for the british prime minister and say that tom. What was it i. it's terribly sad. Situation and asked sympathies. Remind with old as affected by this devastating disease the chief that was what the chief financial officer said and The prime minister's spokesman said it was highly distressing for someone to lose an animal and ask sympathies. Our with mrs mcdonald and all those affected by this terrible disease and i think. That's that sums it up. I rarely agree with laura s- or any of anyways henchmen but But it does. It's a balancing act between those affected by by vantera bay and on the honors of animals. And they've got a chat. They white through hoping to do the best by everyone. Yes i think they said. Twenty seven thousand animals euthanized. Last ti- i'm in the k. Two outbreaks of that particular disease. Yes i yes sad but that That stories either. Mike fennell poet. Durrani my The next story mark is my moma second one supplies in. It's hot dog that this one on. I'd like your opinion on this one. Might the the totta leads the secret. Life of the hunter kill a tortoise. And it's about A at john told us on seychelles. That Some zoology students were doing a conservation project. They're mark and i stumbled across. And the have the footage there don't know whether you've seen it of a tortoise. What they said was hunting bird chick that had fallen out of its nest and The gist of the story. Is that Sign that tom. Pepsi's tortoises aren't just just eighteen plant material and that actively hunt other animals mark. Can i did view the Footy say mark. I think it was just annoyed. This thing this bird. That was a nurettin rather than This pain a particularly common thing. That happens with them And i don't particularly changes might more. Thought tom. what air i'm normal. Normal diet is mark on this. I an awesome particularly to place with the with the reporting in this article. What did you think of it. I think we've had talk a few times now about tom. Click bite how Editors may be your a hell up. People cheer rating information on the internet. Look for an angle that might get people to To click on a more likely than any other angle. And i think that's what's happened here. I you know. I think the footage shows a giant aldebaran told us behaving aggressively to another animal on. Its patch It the animal came back. The little turn shake decided not to move away The eld auburn told us did. It's routine hod. Snap at it that it would do at any threat And the the the resulting did to and chick reminded its mouth and swallowed it. I'd i i didn't interpret that as a On tequila site told us the other aspect of this story. That fan caught disturbing mike. Is that This this sort of story old or this incident was published in in current biology as a pipe. And and as part of that not on a machine this was quoted from natural piper. They are alright this paragraph but as the bird reached the end of the log and ran out of spice. It was feist his decision he ignore. It's hod wad fear of the forest floor hop off the log and run away from the current threat. Will stay on the log and tyke its chances with the rampage in tortoise. d- I'll tell you what he falls. The editing That piper It it wouldn't have got very far if that's a direct quote from current biology it standing in moi scientific esteem has taken a couple of pigs. Drop yes yes so. I think you've summed it up. Well mark the clip by it worked and it attracted me to this story. Mac and i'm pat. I shouldn't have reported on. What have you got for us. Well i hinted at it before. It's the story that i'm the outback is seeing the beast bungee event in ten years. We've as i said been travelling around South midsouth quaint signed western queensland and with spoken to a few people who reported member rations brendan murmur rations and This article quotes on my friends. Mark cada Who is at alice springs. Famous bird watcher. L. springs mark. Kara has the best of luck. I know if you i Try to learn from fe. Few bird watches. Mock kada has almost supernatural ability to identify birds by sound align closes his eyes and listens to kohl's can tell you the bird the agenda and the distance and direction at e-zine on that one of the most amazing things oversaw anyway. Mock reports That That there's lots of budgies around spring clients. So he is awesome said. Does a bucket led by recently said or no supernatural which would've thought thousands of the brilliant green birds are flocking to australia's outback thanks. I don't know that they're actually flocking to the outback as much as breeding at specific locations and building up into large numbers. And there's a number of factors that At the at the moment or allowing you know particularly huge numbers to develop across the landscape they was a bit of an advantage in two thousand sixteen but it was relatively localized Siamak reports things like rain at the perfect time of year Breeding out in a over a very wide area of australia and then Particularly grass seed production in ungraded parts of central australia so The the demand for cattle is meant that many areas of central have been day stocked to provide animals. You know in in the coast And so cattle have been moving off those pastas And as a consequence cross that was consumed before it could be could produce. Eight in previous seasons has been allowed to go to seed and so as a consequence the huge amount of grass seed out there has Has further fueled the massive explosion in population. Yes an of an say in some small flocks of bodies but they are magnificent at night when you say say them sweeping and murmur into mark and moving around yes I think ninety pisces. More budgies is bond. I beach is that correct. Not i think they still there with the lockdowns yes. I am for overseas listeners but look budgie smugglers and i. Now we've mentioned previously this so it's good to say lots of budgies out there in their natural habitat mark rather than stuck in a little cage. That's the other thing about this particular news story. They are free and doing what budgie should do. Good well i think that well. Let's head to new stories. Markham short and sweet Always ways weight and short and thickly topic by could not did put out a little post on on our facebook site and twitter account at cures for those of you who didn't realize we had a twitter account which we post. I think at least once a week. Ab- that we're gonna talk about a very controversial topic to some people in. That is what plants can rabbits. Eight or what. Plants are toxic to rabbits that rabbits shouldn't be eighteen. And thank you. And i are on a fairly similar for some reason they And if you do a doctor. Google a new tie pin toxic plants and rabbits mark You'll get a lot of Web pages a lot and a lot on a many many many many that will have lists of toxic potential toxic plants to budge budgerigars. Sorry to to rabbit and yet you look through those lists and then the same mark does lots of different plants on different lists and some lists. I one particular plan is toxic and another list will say that particular plant is not toxic. So what is going on. Mac and what is happening with rabbits and toxic plants. Well i this. This started for me when i did a little bit of a reflection and tried to have a look at the actual cases. I'd be asked a couple of tons From one of the emergency centers Got a couple of cold. Look someone's find instead they rabbit satan this. I'm in discussion with them. And then looking back over mayan records. I came to the conclusion that they are very very few cases that i've had experience with way. Rabbits have suffered toxicity. In fact i only came up with a single case of a rabbit that had chewed on a compensated log on and then shied the classic songs of copper talk successes but outside of that This I think you had one particular specific talk secaucus. I'm not. I can't think of any cases where i've had rabbits. Eight things and suffered toxicity. There are other aspects to them ingesting unusual plant material. But i don't think they fit into the category of toxicities brandon. Yes well the toxicity. That i saw a witnessed Was hit was Two very young rabbits From the same litter and now probably nabet six or eight weeks of age and thou a fanned comatose basically at the base of avocado trae in the backyard With a fatal advocaat. I next to them so we assumed it was avocado toxicity. So that siani toxicity of seen one of which is guide them supportive care. One of them died and one survived nazi anyone. That of confirmed Over particular unite off fruit toxicity in rabbits and Almere on obscene multi. You in that. What i generally site clients is Rabbits are very good at eight. In all sorts of plants that a toxic to other species in the classic one. There is all the plants that have ox lights in there. Which In i might kill ivor. Akao for instance The rabbit could eight that oh dialing And not have any issues with it. So i'm pretty relaxed. Bet what rabbits do Happened to get into And chumpon and lock you I think it's a lot rarer than people think An a lot of these lists. I think mica just extrapolated from the other spaces that we know To these plans to cause toxicity in motoo or poisonous to his is spacey's And i've just cut and paste them to toronto remnants So here. I'm more at my take on at mark We might get a bit of backlash on that on at night But i think you're a fairly similar mind with it. And i'm just looking at one of the one of the lists hema can. It's got everything from it's in alphabetical and that signed as many many Plants that are toxic to rabbits. Starting with you. Know ella vera at i scrawling down to. It's a very very long list Chinese tea plant. Only up to daphne fox club in i A lupines Just kicked camera. Dendron tomato tomato. They got tomato as toxic to rabbits And the yesterday ted. I tomorrow plan deny that. Plant mark doing date. It's a common planting gardens in newcastle in dumb toxic. Definitely toxic to dogs so proof fell zia and yarrow and yellow ours. So what do i say to my clients To to sort of cover my bases. I suppose i- salvio say why. I have my es I sites them loc- Let your rabbit eight any any sort of Grand cavern that sort of wadey tot grand covering crosses of any kind And st clear of any sort of ornamental Potted plants Is is is what. I tend to say case. Wait wait wait dealing with some of these sort of weighed. wonderful spacey. Say so sort of gone against what i just said as a general comment that i don't think as many many plants are toxic for that sort of my my general spiel to clients. What do you tell your clients. Funnily enough almost identical and i think the interesting thing about those ornamental garden plants. The lillies the the Azaleas rhododendrons iheart rangers. That rabbits really not partial to them that you know he long stories of rabbits breaking into the garden and consuming all the the rhododendrons i think not only are they pretty good at dealing with those sort of slight type plants. But i think they've got generally good sense to not have a chew at lilia. I'm almost always. Cya by saying to the client. Anything that's a potted plant in saw. That's an ornamental garden plant. Avoid those but anything that say You know a herbaceous wade any Milk the souls and any Dandy lonzo those sorts of things perfectly fond felit to let the rabbit had a crack at him. Yes and i think this is one of the sort of common themes isn't it with unusual pets and and clients getting confused bed. All the information. That's out there an spies. that's why were they. Isn't it that we can hopefully provide a little bit of a little bit of them. Wisdom sometimes and practical advice of about what's rod. What's wrong and what you can say on dr. google doesn't necessarily maintenance true if you say something on the internet. Am acci be very interested if any valid listeners have sane rabbits with plant toxicities. That have been confirmed if he can send us an email a mallet at gerbers. Jim dot com. And if you do have a case we'll report it and we'll eight humble pie. Went we mac. I'm we went on a friday of sign. Where wrong where aung. Actually everyday of allies ally madonna vet So i'd like to get some feedback on this particular topic mark. I'm with them. And i'll think of got a web when you're at i've got a question for you. Yes well just. Ramada may one comment that used to live Stressed at one stage. That i always tight to my clients. I come we talk about. The high. in veggie dot worldwide has been ideal diet for rabbits. And and and i agree with what you say. It should be the grass and veggie toilet Is what we should be. Fading arab it. Some the reason why we say hainan. Veggies convenience factor of that sort of packaged high and natural Dot of a freshly cut. Oh grow arising out there in the yard. Picking is Wade's and grasses and offering them fresh to the rabbits is in preference to fade in. That droid gross material which is called high so On on constantly mentioned in that to my clients mark. Now what's it. what's the question. I'll try my best to answer it. I've got to i've got to i know that That one of the One of the general principles that i follow is that Providing with choice so ceo went out and grabbed a whole bunch of plants and there was wanting their that was That potentially could put them at all That they have good at choosing when they have choice. If just grabbed a handful of something that was dangerous and a lot of these things might be dangerous at particular tongs and they grow sokoll. If i plant that in And they've got no choice. They might well have got it. And if it's contains enough of a dangerous element than than i could be in trouble site choices and important as you. Do you suggest that yes yes. The question was how many of these are. I think a lot of these cases of toxicity actually Change in dollar tree. Change into Gastrointestinal stasis cases that the different texture. The different chemicals different bugs associated with digesting. Different plants can in susceptible House bunnies Like indefinitely late to That change indefinitely late to gastrointestinal trouble. It's not technically toxicity But you know colicky sort of arrangement much like horses that have daughtry changes. Yes well i agree. And i think it's assignments what we do with. Any changing of any died isn't even with dogs. And cats and pop puppies for instance that are on a crappy diet when we say them for that first vaccination and health shake when swapping them either to a mall complaint or oh better Dry fade for instance On on the fist i we. Slowly transitioned is animals. Iva several days are waco to and and we recommend the sign with unusual pets as well. Don't we if we if we had to recommend a more varied dot than some crappy rabbit makes i bain fading ninety percent of the diet. I'm to that rabid one hundred percent. Exactly exactly what i think. Well there we go. That's the answer Plants toxic to rabbits. Perhaps maybe i'm here nice. We'll get some emails from people so hopefully with the list of ones that though saying but with that out of he told your next week. Listen thanks for listening to the podcast by the vet gurus. Don't forget to visit us. At the website vet gurus dot com. Where you can subscribe few show nights listen. The previous episodes and more gigging contact us by email and vet gurus g mail dot com to ask the question or just i. Hi thanks again and see you next time.
Two exorbitant tickets to space, please.
"The truth and buy out there. I mean in a nine page document from the pentagon yes this week on download this shy the us government open up about what they know or at least i willing to admit about ufo's which could not happen a moment faster given at least one. Major tech company has been given approval to take passes into space. We look at the legacy of one of the most influential but dangerous people in history and one point five billion. Us dollars that he's how much social content company buzzfeed recondite are worth. Do you agree. Let's find out. This is your god to wake in media technology and culture. My name is marc fennell and welcome to download show yes. It is a brand new episode of download. Our guest this week we have social media strategists. Make coffee joining us. Welcome back could morning and do we have a guest appearance by dog yet. Or is that something. We're going to build up to later in the show. I think we're going to build up to that one. You know see if the magpie outside really aggravates him or not and alongside make joining us from the queens of the drainage podcast is technology journalist. Extraordinaire uncle radio. Welcome back hello extraordinary to be here. You have two snakes if you can get them to cameo in this series. I we forever in your debt. If you warned me early next time i can. Because i have to put the cat away i in case the snake eats the cat. Why says not the cat damaging the snake is the snakes aiding recap the cats like the size of a rat. Snake would get her an instant. Well if you need to sky maybe you can go to space this week. Source in major news with virgin galactic getting. It's it's official okay. to fly. Passengers to the to the age of spice right is is that whatever that means is that through this spaces of frame of mind really. I mean if you took me say fifty kilometers above the surface. I would probably feel like. I'm in space. But there is some debate as to how far you have to go for it to constitute space so the virgin galactic plane is going about ninety kilometers kind of between that eighty to ninety kilometer region. And that according to the us federal aviation administration counter space other people use the metric of one hundred kilometers above the stuff So it just really depends on who you are. Ask rod so make. What's the timeline for. This win is likely to happen to be none. Well it looks like it's pretty soon actually virgin. Galactic wants to run a couple more tests before they actually you know. Put it out to the general public but they have received the licensing that they need into space. Tourism basically is upon us. There's there's a big question mark though at the moment is branson gonna beat jeffrey. As they're both racing for it and beza says he's going in july so that's like weeks away. What certification certification yet so bays us doesn't have commercial certification yet. The jin is beating them out in that regard. So that's why it's looking like virgin again and get us both on test flights certainly so they can both technically say that they've done it but in terms of having the commercial aspect of it. Yeah genera ahead. So he's not why buys this is making it big. We should say for those playing long time if you haven't familiar with the name. Jeffrey is the man behind amazon. Very rich also interested in going to spies but he did announce last couple of days that he was heading in as was mentioned earlier indices in july derek. And that's why he's announced because virgin have sort of bait him to the certification game for commercials by swat route. Yeah i hope so. I want to believe in these billion as having a petty squabble about who does commercial flights to space. I because do we not have logic issues going on and i think that's a nice dealing with iraq now more interesting but what i really love is that branson is kind of playing dr jekyll here in that. He's self experimenting and he really badly wants to be one of the people in the next test flight sort of maybe ignoring the fact that they did have a test flight in two thousand fourteen which resulted in serious injury and death How much is it. Actually going to cost meg. Like if you really want to to do this why would you be buying in order to get to the edge of space. Well it looks like it's only going to cost four hundred thousand dollars. But i i i love the only look actually doesn't seem like that much but the thing is though is i think that it's all going to be relative because i think that might be sort of like the base price. But then they're gonna. They're going to auction off some seats. I know that basis auctioned off for several million dollars so yes starting price. Just a measly four hundred thousand u. s. read. You mentioned the fact that there were some pretty serious incidents is only if you use ago. Have they publicly. Communicated what they've changed since those horrific incidents i mean i think the what improvement likes to get thrown around quite a lot. Doesn't it that they've improved things. I think you know. The proof is in the pudding in that. They have had several successful test flights since that incident. So whatever they have change does seem to be working virgin galactic. Actually walk in an interesting way. That's a little bit different to what everybody else seems to be doing in that they haven't actual plane so rather than it being like a pod on top of a rocket like you would imagine for general space travel there actually kind of using rockets to launch a plane into the upper atmosphere which then detaches from those rockets and completes its flight. So i think you know using what isn't necessarily the traditional technologies in that space as well space fully that is also presents. It's own challenges because you'll probably Walking a little bit more of the abstract off your own daughter rather than being able to use other people's daughter as well so there are applications that sodas technology beyond just like going into spicer. We're also looking at technology that might make actual sort of nation to nation travel faucet by by going higher and building. A high rock is that where the money is likely. Come from or do you actually think there is a market specifically and people just wanting to go to the space for the sake of it mic. I i think both i mean definitely. There's a market for people wanting to go to the edge of space and it's not just these crazy billionaires with too much money. I think there's definitely a massive interest whether or not that remains commercially viable. I think we'll see that said if we can return to. The concorde was early days when you get from from la to new york in absolutely no time if we can return. Today's like that where we can. You know travel from perth to london in six hours. Why not look at that Will they have sold about six hundred tickets. In the meantime my puppy is sleeping behind me. Like an angel or rod. Virgin galactic have sold about six hundred tickets already. Apparently but when you look at that you like well. How many more tickets and you going to sell poss. That often everybody who has enough money to engage in space. Travel do it. Are you really going to have that many more customers. I kind of don't think so. I think that it's quite novelty and it'll be just a once in a lifetime experience. Not something that. You're gonna do frequently so i think that the implications for more commercial general travel What's going to continue fueling this kind of technology which has been given a boost by space tourism. What do you think the next steps are. Meg does this category from here. Because i mean to the point that what resign which is in a sense with spices. Kind of nowhere to go like you can go up. You can say it but it's not like there's a moon base another planet to go to right at the moment anyway so if you look at the history of travel. The history of travel is predicated on the notion that you have somewhere to land where you have someone to go. So what becomes the next stage in this whole category of spice tourism. I think that's it is having having a place to land whether that becomes. You know i mean it sounds crazy but like a moon hotel or or actually getting people into outer space not just. The edge of space is going to be the next frontier. Because i think we're going to wet the appetite of all these wealthy billionaires. Yeah they're going to do it once but then they're going to be like that was awesome. I need to go again. I need to do something bigger and better and spend all my money or download. This is what you're listening to. It is your to the wake in media technology and culture. I guess this week on social media strategist make coffee and technology journalist anchor hearts of the queens of the drainage. Podcast on horatio. Fennell my name. And john mcafee my will be the most controversial person to ever exist in the world of technology and there dies i think possibly just the most controversial boson to exist on now sadly he passed away this week but he left behind a really fascinating bizarre and it should be said disturbing it in moments legacy read. This is your opportunity to give a eulogy if you had explained john. Mcafee wards. how would you stop. I will i would start by saying. He was the founder of mcafee antivirus software which a lot of people would be quite familiar with the name. At least whether that be good memories of being protected by malware or bad memories of lots and lots of pop ups coming up on the computer company launched the nineteen eighties and was wildly successful infected. Ended up getting sold. I think to intel for point seven billion. Us dollars so a very very successful company but when you dove a little bit deepa into jones life it gets really really interesting. He was quite the character. Does actually twenty sixteen documentary about his life or a particular aspect of his life code gringo. The dangerous life of john mcafee. Which in itself is surprising. Because i wouldn't think that software would have that dangerous of a life but in twenty twelve. His neighbor was found shot dead in his home. They hit apparently had some disputes over. Mcafee's dogs and when i say dogs you think like oh. He's got two dogs. Apparently he had eight to twelve very aggressive dogs that he would control using tasers. I know yeah it's a lot. It's a law and documentary. Alleges that mcafee essentially hired someone to have his neighbor killed because he he believed the the neighborhood poisoned one of his dogs. Mcafee fled police and when they turned up at his house they did not find him instead. They found a large number of weapons in his home and a seventeen year old girl that he living with but then fos forward a couple of years in two thousand sixteen. He announced his intention to run for president with a campaign. That was a war against drugs. He was unsuccessful unfortunately for him. And then you fast forward again to you know twenty twenty and just before and he ended up arrested in spain for tax evasion and at the same time a us indictment was issued against him for essentially a crypto currency pump and dump schemes in which does coin was involved and they say that he was encouraging people under false pretenses to purchase doj coin. Just very very interesting man who you know. Obviously regardless of what the rest of his life was it is quite tragic the end that he found himself in but one of the most colorful lives. I think i have ever peaked at. I think to the general public you know. His legacy will definitely be the antiviral software. I think the majority of the public don't know about what he got up to in later life and you know the the crazy exploits that he was on once again too much money and some crazy ideas it's worth pointing out that i think the software company which he kind of removed himself from was removed from. They've really distance themselves from him over the years. I haven't oh definitely. It's one of those things that yes you know. It might be his last name but they want absolutely nothing to do with with the person himself he was he would say some crazy things. He would bring attention to himself. That wasn't at all in any way. Good for business and i think if it wasn't such a well known brand in well known thing i'm actually surprised. They didn't change the name of the software. If looking at it from a really kind perspective. I would say that he was a risk taker. And someone who you know really sucked the marrow out of life. I suppose but if you look at the numerous numerous allegations against him as even being partially true then i think he did seem like quite a dangerous pus and and quite terrifying person in a lot of regards. You know what what truly can you say about someone who has numerous allegations of violence and even ripe and drugs against them. Too hot one. It's a very and he is going now Download the is what you're listening to. It is your god through the week in media technology and culture and is buzzfeed worth one point five billion dollars because that's how much the talking about it being with the moment read. Why number of one point. Five billion dollars become attached buzzfeed. Because i look in a cell going through the current processes of becoming public and also in that process trying to acquire other media outlets as well. So i believe it was kind of a self put number but this sort of like valuing themselves at one point. Five billion in my opinion is anything worth a billion dollars truly ways there. I would say one point five five personally before. Okay just how much. How much are you in that personally. I mean we're a tame it deserves nor values to create these division in a harmonious. Make so that i mean just separating it from the number buzzfeed's had a really interesting kind of trajectory of costa jonah peretti. Who had come from having to post and really it road that y of social content content that really people wanted to share and really kind of in some ways. It reflects the rise of social media itself. Things that became popular on. Facebook and twitter is especially. Oh definitely. I mean buzz. He'd at at at tight was the gold standard in how to get engagement on facebook. You know the way that they would. Ab test headlines. The way that they had their list of the way they just created content that people wanted to consume. They knew exactly what they were doing. So how'd you ask you. If they were worth one point five billion at the height i would have definitely said yes but i think that that time has come and gone. We don't interact with social media the way that we used to click bait headlines. Just we actually don't click on the click bait headlines anymore because we see them from a mile away and we know exactly what it is that they're trying to do so. I think that that that era that buzzfeed sort of pioneered has has coming gone. And unless they're going to reinvent themselves. I don't see how they're worth one point five billion well. Yeah this is the thing that went through a period of really intense global expansion. There was newsrooms all around the world. That had some quite big news. Hits obviously quite active in the late up in the run of the trump presidency and it seems at least from where i stand that in many ways the organization has shrunk bit read. Is that just the impression i get or do you that as well. Oh no they suddenly have to a massive layoffs. I think throughout maybe it was twenty fourteen and also twenty nineteen and then when they merged with huff po. They also lost further employees so they've had quite a number of people get cut off and when you look at that and you think ok well. They've suffered a little bit of difficulties in they're having to reinvent themselves and they've been really good at innovation and reinventing themselves in the post. But how you gonna continue that when people are the ones that come up with ideas for where to take your business and you'll losing people. So i think that looking at that alone i would say that a little bit of a sinking ship rather than one that is rising again like a phoenix but at the same time without you know being in the inner workings it can be a little bit hard to say but certainly those layoffs were a really big deal and kind of. I think to everyone quite indicative that than not doing so well anymore. I think they tarnish. The brand is well. The way they handled those layoffs was just. It was not cooled. I think there was one group of people that were laid off via conference. Call all at once it. Just people turned on the brand. They didn't like that. They weren't treating their people with respect. And it gives you an icky feeling and buzzfeed just doesn't have that same coolness that it used to have we're also talking about an organization that's going to change in public perception right so obviously dow very famous for kind of fun social content quizzes things like that which i think still do perform so that was kind of offshoots like tasty which was their arm and i think there was a stat at a period of time there or at least. Fifty percent of americans sanitized video sub. One minute fast shot from over the top food videos. But there was that kind of component to the organization and then there was the news component and the best news component generated. Some really big stories and really had a huge impact in certain areas. If feels like there was always a bit of attention at least in the public perception of the organization between those two things whereas wanting to be taken seriously the lack of a better term in a news division they would always come up against this prevailing view that it was cute cat videos right and same time even internally that would acknowledge that that content the fun stuff was still wear the traffic laws. And i feel like you know now looking about that. Don't wanna feel like. I'm title. Eulogizing them because i still exist people but it feels like they never really navigated that tension and how to make those two things coexist. Tell me if i'm wrong. Ride i think you kind of right. I think that most content creators Deal with this issue. Where do you want to be popular and fun or do you want to be important. And even the abc. I think that that's something that the abc holds intention of. We have the wonderful opportunity to be a public. Broad kosta who's he had to create important content for all australians. But at the same time it never feels quite good and does it feel like a good use of resources if you're creating content. That is very unpopular. If only a couple of people watch that's something that's really interesting to look at across all content makers but in buzzfeed in particular. I think they were at a point where they were really really well primed to evolve and to become something more important. Maybe that could have been a bit of a rebrand where they have that you more. Investigative journalism going on and teen vogue manage to do quite well but they struggled with it and they couldn't drop that funny quiz silly kind of brand on them and that makes people not quite trust the journalism that doing even if it's really sound and it's good editorial over it and all the rest of it so i think that it's possible that buzzfeed have missed that chance to become something more evolved with the times and continued success. But time will tell if you look at the history of fade. It's amazing how vulnerable they were to changes on the big social media platform so when facebook decided to change its algorithm to kind of give it away from video to china the kind of articles up putting forward a company that had built itself on top of social media found itself really at the mercy of those organizations in some ways is something of a cautionary tale in that in terms of not building a business reliance on on a third party to deliver you audience. Ten thousand percent. I mean they're the perfect case. Study of what happens when you build on rented land in just any second. It can be taken away from you. I think you know more recently more locally. When we had the facebook news ban here in australia we saw what happened. When you're when your main platform was taken away from you and you didn't have access to the people that you want us to. And and how that impacted your reach. So i think you know but i think buzzfeed came out in the very beginning of social figured out how to make the platform work for themselves. You know they. They were in talks. They edited their content. They figured out the algorithm but then all of a sudden facebook didn't wanna play nice anymore and when that happened buzzfeed was sort of left holding the bag so it's a thousand percent ten thousand percent cautionary tale. You've gotta make sure that you have access to your audience on your own platforms on the things that you can control because whether it's facebook or twitter instagram or any of these tick talk. It can be taken away from you in an instant. I think that it shows that it's really difficult though to succeed without those platforms. Nowadays i think that audiences more and more on necessarily going to a site directly and then not necessarily finding new sites without something like google facebook or twitter and it's more in my opinion of cautionary tale of how the overall consumption of media has drastically changed and all in the hands of these social media platforms and the they're really the ones that hold the power of the moment so companies do kind of have to innovate and figure out the algorithms and figure out how to work with them in order to be successful but at the same time the success ends up not being Up to them because it is just up to the algorithm so it is something that i think is a much bigger issue and again does go back to for example the media bargaining low the that came up in australia and all the buzzfeed can do now with show us how bad it can go download. The show is what you're listening to. Your god wake in media technology and culture and i promise it at the beginning and i will deliver. Ufo's last week. The office of the director of national intelligence in the united states released a long-awaited pentagon uf our report deed. We finally find out. Meg whether the truth was out there absolutely not report basically. I sat her. Eleven seasons of the x. Falls nothing pretty much like i was so excited to read this report and like yes. It's here it's good to explain it and then you read it and it's like yep so really we're not telling you anything because we don't really know there really isn't anything to tell you because you guys are all making it up but he does acknowledge read that there are things that have been in the sky that they haven't identified and it's worth pointing out that okay. So if you remove. I guess the there is a natural sort of like laughable caution to this right that you would assume that if you're a federal agency and you had unidentified anything in your ass spice you'd wanna have a good idea of what it is. Removing the eileen confinement like foreign interference. Like there's a whole bunch of reasons why you would want an are and want to be able to identify everything in your space right. Yes certainly i mean when you think about it in quite real tons. It's a little bit scary to think that that Things that we don't know and don't understand very close to us but at the same time you have to remember that even oceans have largely been unexploited. There is a lot of everything around us that we don't understand we don't even fully know-how thumbs reproduce yet. We've not seen it properly so you just kind of have to accept that this stuff that we don't know yet there's so much that science can tell us but at the same time there's so much that it con- yet so the report mostly said like oh it could be things like bugs in the system or technical glitches and environmental phenomena. Whatever that means. But i kind of i understand The viewpoint of i'm sorry we just don't know the stage. We haven't figured it out. There are a few interesting things about the report. One of the rich is the sort of done away. Make with the acronym ufo. They've replaced it with you. I pay which is actually what. What does that actually stand for you. I pay yes. Unidentified aerial phenomenon right and why would they have. China is it just because there's too much baggage attached to your where far was an acronym. Well i think so but also it makes it a little bit more technical because we don't necessarily know that it is a flying object. I think you know the report says as radames. You're saying it could have been technical glitch. It could have been you know a windstorm or a sensor or something that we just we aren't capable of of measuring yet so it's an aerial phenomena is something that's in the air that that doesn't seem quite and we can't quite identify it yet but we don't necessarily think that it's a flying object so in the cases of politics recorded eleven near misses that are documented in the report. What was the most interesting thing that came out of the report view. Is there anything that stood out as being particularly notable. Oh i don't know. I think there were quite a few things that were interesting. I think there are the eleven near misses that the pilots have said. There has to be something in that and it does worry me that. A lot of these do tend to happen over air force bases insecurity bases but then the report also highlights that we have a lot more security around security basis. So we're paying a lot more attention to these particular spots because their spots of national security you know we're not paying attention to the middle of the desert because there's there's nothing to pay attention to out there very sensitive that's right that's the most secure. It's interesting. I think it's definitely i think there's more to come. I think as always with government. They never tell us the full story. Even if they have been compelled in this case to tell us what they know. I still don't believe it's everything. Well the men in black of rooftop to remove my memories now. So i should probably wrap up the shai. Thank you so much for being on the show. It was lovely heavy back on. Thank you if you enjoyed the voice of radio. Make sure you check out the queen's dry nights podcast and make coffee thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me and my dog i love. The guest appearance by the door was delightful and with that. I shall leave you if you enjoyed the show. Make sure you leave a review on whichever housing app. You happen to be listening to us on all of them now apple spotify all the rest of them so do leave us a review. It would be greatly appreciated and with that shall leave you. My name is mike fennell and thanks for listening to another episode of download the show.
Rep. Eric Swalwell On His Fight For Accountability For The Jan. 6th Insurrection
"My name is paul butler. I'm a law professor at georgetown and the author of chokehold black men and let's get free a hip hop theory of justice. I've known diane ream for at least twenty five years. I've been a guest program. What i appreciate about the podcast is. She is still up today and she still keeps her listeners up to date with. What's in the news right now. I'm really glad that she still has this forum that we still have this opportunity to process the us. I think. A lot of flying diane's voice our conference that's why she's so good at what she does hits on my mind House committee that january six insurrection at the capitol is likely to hold it first. Public hearings next week congressman twelve. Well representing california's fifteenth district was in the house. That day he has quite few to odds on why it all happened is a manager for donald trump second impeachment trial at someone with a front row seat at his first the congress and says he will never forget what happened during those trials and he doesn't think we should either. His book detailing knows venti is titled endgame inside the impeachment of donald. J trump congressman eric's while well joins me to talk about what he has and why he leads. Our democracy is at this moment especially fragile congressman at house. Committee investigating january's six insurrection is likely to begin. Its first public hearings next week. What are the questions you hope. The committee will address. Good morning Diane i really do hope that the committee addresses. How was donald trump able to organize. Assemble in amo mob at the capitol. What did he know in the days leading up to january six about who was going to show up and what their intentions were. What did he know on that day. As the mob was assembling and preparing to move to the capital. Why didn't he send more troops to the capital to defend the capital assists the capitol police. And of course. I think there are a lot of questions about what. Can we do to make sure that this never happens again. And as republicans work to erase that day and rewrite that day is something that was to celebrate. What can we do to hold up the police. Officers and the custodial staff that defended the capital to make sure that they are always honored and that you know we remember the service that they gave the sacrifices they made and why again. We can't let this happen again. What do you make the fact that many republicans are saying. It was just an ordinary day an ordinary visiting day. They're scared diane. they're scared of donald trump. he's gone too many republican districts to support challengers to republicans who have held him accountable for what he did on january six And you know. Event in american history has been more recorded than january six. So as i prepared this for donald trump's impeachment impeachment manager. We saw you know hours of different angles of bis attack whether it was donald trump's speech and his words or the fifty million dollars that he spent in the days leading up to this attack to aim the mob at the capitol and then of course the on the scene footage from so many people who came because in their words they told the fbi and they would tell courts is they were being held to account. Donald trump invited them. Donald trump told them to come so It's indisputable that day happened that donald trump was the main motivator. And it's just my hope that we do all we can to preserve that for the sake of history but for the sake also of learning so that no one ever again can do this. An update to your book. Anton- game you describe your personal experience on that day. Can you tell us about where you were and what you experienced. I wrote a book about impeachment. A year before the insurrection. It was called endgame inside the impeachment of donald trump so we added four chapters and sadly the country we added him as to the title inside the impeachment of donald trump. That day i was on the floor. is a is a member of leadership speaker pelosi Really had limited. Who could be on the house floor because of kovic restrictions. I'm now if you look at the floor that day you'll see that there were only about twenty five or so democrats. That was the cap that she put for. Who could be on. The floor was house democratic leadership and of course any state that was being challenged at the time or state was being challenged. You could be on the phone so the arizona delegation alphabetically. Challenge i now. The republicans didn't follow these covered restrictions. At all in fact they kind of laughed at them. Mock them on their side. You you saw. The whole floor was full so there weren't many democrats on the floor instead. We were mostly in the gallery so any colleague that was not leadership they were one level above in the house gallery and so i was on the floor As i started to see the reports that the mob was moving toward the capitol ahead those reports phone so i was sitting next to a couple of colleagues and we were looking at our phones in disbelief because we were there to listen to the debate between both sides and we saw images on our phone of The mob moving closer and closer to the capital and we were also getting capital. Police alerts that the first one. That was quite stirring was that pipebombs were found near the capital and that got a lot of our attention because we worried that if the mob was also coming to the capital that anyone who was trying to breach the capital may also be using pipebombs and Is i sent a text message to my wife one of them mentioned and referenced the bombs that we just didn't know what the intent was but that the capitol police had already found pipebombs. And diana's you know today We still have not found the person who placed the pipebombs near the capital. But i i went. To ruben geigo. Who is an iraq. War veteran a close friend of mine. And i told him we should stick together. His wife had been text. Messaging me and asking me to make sure i watched him. She knew that. Ruben as an iraq war veteran may not listen to the orders of the police and may try and engage with the mob. So we agreed that we would leave together. And i remember ruben taken off his coast. Telling me i should take off my coat and also grabbing a pen and saying get one of these yourself and go for the throat if anyone gets near you and so I got pretty serious pretty quickly and pretty soon. You heard the banging on the doors but you couldn't see anything because there weren't many windows. You heard yelling and shouting from the mob and then pretty soon you also heard the smashing of glass on the windows. Very small windows that were on the front doors and speakers gallery and we were told to take out our gas masks. I so i didn't know this but underneath every chair in the house of representatives is a gas mask. And so i pulled out my gas mask and i looked at it because it's a sealed package. And i looked at ruben ruben. What the hell do i do with this like i. I've never had to take out of gas masks before. But because rubin has served a theater of war he knew and pretty soon. You saw the veterans in our caucus a helping many members takeout unseal and put on their gas masks because they have experienced doing it And so next thing you know you have dozens of gas masks in the gallery and on the floor and we were awaiting instructions as to where to go and fortunately we were able to leave and taken evacuation routes off the floor. And that's of course is the country knows. That's when miss babbitt breached the speaker's gallery doors and Was killed by the police officer. Who's protecting those doors. That is where. I was exiting and moving out and away from the floor. So i gather no one really panicked. It was instruction and reaction to those instructions. It was very very tense and there was a lot of things in the room. And i really have to credit speaker. Pelosi's floor staff who was instrumental in keeping everybody calm. They were essentially relaying. What they were hearing There was a couple of security officers from the capitol police who would update us from time to time. And only once diane. And i mentioned in the book from the gallery. A democrat a did panic and started shouting screaming at the republicans. This is your fault this is your fault. Tell donald trump to call this off and what was amazing about that. Moment was almost to a t. Every republican and democrat on the floor looked at that individual and said stop like. This is not the time to litigate this. Just stop because we were afraid that you would have this. You know stampede. Or this Almost riot breakdown on the floor and we thought we listen to the police. That was not the time to fight each other because it was so uncertain as to what was going to happen next. Did you know in your heart that it was donald trump. Did you believe that at that moment. You know. I had seen the footage. And i remember holding my cellphone in handing it to my colleagues as he was speaking Where he said he's going to go to the capital People have to fight like hell and we'd also reviewed the mo brooks footage Where he said you know. It's time to take things and kick some behinds. Is he putting different language. And so we always though thought that the capital was fortified we. We never believed that is angry and fired up. As the mob was that they would be able to breach the capital and so we watched horror as they went past each barricade in perimeter of the capitol police had set up. And i remember thinking at some point when you heard the banging in the shopping and the smashing of glass Like this can't be happening. I that was like a constant thought. I had was a can't end this way. Like the the. There's no way. And i remember getting emotional in tears starting to come down like a Our country cannot end. This way was the feeling that i had And honestly am it was the same feeling. I had in two thousand sixteen as i saw the results coming in on election night i remember is florida was called for donald trump and then pretty soon you know michigan pennsylvania and wisconsin recalled for donald trump. It was just a disbelief that like. How did this person who pandered to grievances and riled up so many people and i really thought brought out the worst. How was he able to win. It was very much the same emotion. I had on the floor which was like how. How has our great country succumb to this. With as i said the uncertainty about what was going to happen next for my personal safety and of course for the country i think the country felt the same way watching what was happening. How can this be happening in our country. How can this capital of ours. Beat reached this way. It was unbelievable to think that there was not adequate protection for that place that is so precious to our country. Did you at that time wonder. Where the protection was where the national guard was where somebody was so we had a as i said a security officer kept updating us and there was a capital police officer who was in what i would call like riot gear who kept coming up to the podium and telling us what was going on and that my constant thought was will surely there are more of you than there are of them are. Surely they're not going to get past. You know the as i said the perimeter that you should have set up because as we know during the summer there were black lives matter protests and there was just a foul Officers that protected the capital during the summer and the moment that i realized we were outnumbered was win. The house chaplain unannounced and unsolicited. Went up to the front podium. The same podium that the president of the united states speaks from You know during the state of the union and the house chaplain just randomly started reading a prayer. And that's when i am the house chaplain. I had gaveled into session that day speaker. Pelosi it asked me Right before the debate started to gavel on the session to have the chaplain lead us in prayer and that was her first day on. The job is the the new house chaplain and i knew. She had a military background. So when she led us later in this unannounced prayer felt to me in many ways like a last rites like she saw that there was this uncertainty and so she was now calling on us to all be in peace. And that's when. I realized we weren't going to be protected by the capitol police that they were. Outnumbered but congressman. Well how do you explain the mindset the many republicans who right after that attack voted against certifying the election as we were leaving the floor. You can only move as fast as the slowest person in front of you. So there were times where i can still hear. The capitol police officers yelling at us to move faster. But you couldn't move at all because there was kind of a bottleneck and there were times during like the bottle necking in the stairways and the tunnels hallways were bump into a republican who had been at the rally or republican who had helped donald trump. Tell the big live. And i believe naively that will maybe. This is sadly as what is going to take that. Were both running for our lives from mob. And maybe this is what it's gonna take to be the antidote to. What's going on outside. That you know unity would help us get through this and your rights and within hours no lesson was learned. We spent hours once back to the floor debating. The big lie. We went all the way until about four in the morning because arizona in pennsylvania and other states were challenged and we didn't have that september eleven. Like unity moment. Where when. I was an intern back. In two thousand and one i remember. Republicans and democrats standing on the steps of the capitol arm-in-arm. Sing god bless america and then going to work i very much in a unified way through the september eleven independent. Bipartisan commission. To make sure that day like that would ever happen again and we never had that moment again. You would soon see in the days after that. There was one version of day that was being told. You know the big lie would be replaced by you. Know the big lie about what happened that day and there was another version of police officers like officer michael phenomenon harry dunn who were desperate for the world to know what they sacrifice and what experience tell me or reaction to mitch mcconnell's statement that very day talking about donald trump or it was called comfort because accuser managers are. We really believed that. He was the linchpin. Is i presented the case on that senate floor. He was only footsteps away from me. He instruction were the closest persons seated to every manager. And i saw in every second. I spoke in every piece of footage that i showed that mitch. Mcconnell was tracking the arguments. That i was making an by colleagues are making and the staff who were a part of the first impeachment. You know the ukraine incident. They said it's a completely different trial in that mitch. Mcconnell in republicans were completely checked out. They didn't track and follow it in care here is i laid out I was responsible for the chapter. That was called the attack and so i presented about an hour's worth of footage of the mob descending into the capitol the senate being evacuated in house being evacuated. I showed the senators footage they'd never seen before including them running for their lives Through the first floor of capital senator schumer running for his life as he walked up an exit out and then encountered the mob and turned around and ran down the route So i that was my my chapter. I saw mitch mcconnell at times Tearing up because it was so hard to watch and so it was cold comfort because it felt like he did not have the courage the imagination or the creativity to think beyond just keeping drop. That was you know. He couldn't vote guilty because he would lose his job but he would make this twenty minute. Speech saying donald trump was entirely responsible and should be held accountable civilly but he was giving him this loophole because he was no longer president and didn't believe a former president impeach- quick break pressed. My conversation with congressman. Eric small. Well when we come back. Here's abreast of my conversation with democratic congressman eric's wall well California he's author a endgame in the impeachments up. Donald j trump. You know in your book who write that. Donald trump with skilled at getting people. Some people to quote over. Think how did ill with him. What do you mean by that and give us some examples. Ci during the two thousand sixteen election an example i think of is that donald trump said over and over and over again that the election was going to be rigged that it would be stolen. Just he didn't twenty twenty but that the election was going to be stolen there. Were going to be millions of illegal votes in that. That was how he helped explain even after winning the electoral college. The difference between the popular vote in toro college. He had kind of laid up that argument and as we investigated what the russians had done in two thousand sixteen. It was very clear that the obama administration was hesitant to attribute russia's disinformation campaign and its efforts to help donald trump because donald trump was saying during the campaign. The election was going to be rid so it was in their head that donald trump had seated this and they were afraid that if they were to forward leaning about what russia was doing that. You would almost validate what donald trump was saying in a different way that russia was interfering in the election. May be rigged. Bob muller on. I think made the same mistake. And as he testified to the house intelligence and judiciary committees about his report he was asked. Will widen us. Subpoenaed donald trump. Why didn't you essentially cross the red lines that he had set about going into his finances or asking him about what he knew and muller said that it would have taken too long and anyone who's been involved in a white collar investigation knows that these investigations take years and muller had moved at a record clip however donald trump had said for months that this was a witch hunt it was taking too long and so donald trump had set this artificial deadline for when the investigation had to end and muller was following it and so donald trump was masterful. I think at giving very smart reasonable persons with integrity to kind of follow. You know his artificial deadlines or to take on the straw man that he would create and it always would end up benefiting him In hurting the country. How much did ukraine chambers that you know ernest. Hemingway roads in the sun also rises to characters. Were discussing how one character had gone bankrupt and the character asked the other. How did you lose all your money. And he said two ways gradually and suddenly and that's how. I felt about the first impeachment. Which was how is donald trump impeach. Well two ways gradually and suddenly there was a build up to it from what we learned in the mullahs report from what he was doing. Almost daring us to impeach him with his engagements with russia and vitamin putin and suddenly when the day after muller testified to congress july twenty five he makes us call two presidents alinsky in ukraine and recognizing joe biden is probably going to be his political opponents asks zielinski per put dirt on joe biden so once we had that evidence we thought there was no other alternative and when you saw the national security damages is i called them in the book. The seven members of the freshman class who had a national security background in the military and intelligence. Come out and say that you know that was their own redline That was the impetus for us doing that. You have filed the law suit against donald trump truly out donald trump junior and republican congressman mo brooks of alabama for their role in inciting january's x. Where does that stand are filed that lawsuit because of accountability and wanting to make sure that everyone who was principally responsible for january six was held accountable in a civil lawsuit like that one of the most difficult hurdles is what's called the motion to dismiss and it's the first motion that has to be decided essentially in the preceding and so donald trump and mo brooks are asserting that because they were holding a public office they're immune from such lawsuits their immune from being sued for disrupting the public act of counting the votes that their immune from you know intentionally inflicting emotional distress on myself and the others who were there day and so if we survived that motion to dismiss which i do believe the courts are going to find that There are acts that are well outside your official duties like when you have a political rally outside of your public office and he fire up the crowd and you spend twenty days and fifty million dollars in ads to have that crowd common. Aim them the capital that that is indeed outside of the liability protection that you have Then we would move onto what's called the discovery period so there would be depositions and evidence that we could ask of those plaintiffs and then the court would rule on what's called a summary judgment so looking at the facts most favorable to me the plaintiff should this case. Go to a jury. Typically that motion goes in favor of the plaintiff. Once you've gotten past the motion to dismiss and then it's in the hands of a jury so if we survive the motion to dismiss. I do believe this. Would you know hurdle toward a jury trial in the district of columbia. And i do hope that you we have our day in court where we can have that one truth that one version of the truth and the facts come out his attorney floyd abrams on your side. How soon do you think that particular issue is going to be decided. You know what we're so blessed with a number of talented lawyers and floyd. Abrams filed an amigas brief For us this week And we also have norm eisen From the brookings institute we have Professor larry tribe helping us in the chief. Lawyer is phil indonesian. So i i do think you know they're with us and we're seeing other meekest. Briefs being filed in the coming days from a number of talented legal minds just wanting to draw a line between what is an official act. And what is well outside in in wanting to recognize that if we say that a president can a mob a violent mob at the capitol. Then there's almost nothing that is outside of that immunity. That presidents are afford so really wanted to make sure that you know we establish some boundaries court will hear this is the us district court for washington dc. It's judge meta who's the judge and you know. Ideally would be resolved there but of course any appeals would go up through the circuit court of appeals in washington and possibly to the supreme court. So you know diane. I don't have the same pressures of time. That the senate had you know that we had is impeach managers where joe biden was trying to put a cabinet in place. We were trying to pass the american rescue plan to address covert relief and any you know Effort take longer than a couple of days at the senate. Trial was going to be met with a lot of pressure because of other responsibilities thankfully collaterally because it's a civil lawsuit. I just don't have those pressures. And so i do. Hope we were able to yield more evidence than we were able to get in the senate trial. What you make of the cases brought by this date of new york and sivan's prosecutor for seven years and i. It's my hope that any case that is broad is only brought because they have the goods they have the evidence that the facts and the law alime and that donald trump is treated no better or no worse than any other. You know criminal defendant in our country. My fear is that he would be treated better because he's a former president and that there may be this mindset that well we have to sweep this under the rug and let's just move on for the sake of moving on and i really do hope that If there is evidence that as president or as a candidate he committed a crime that we hold him to account. I don't think this is like gerald ford pardoning richard nixon. I think that the crimes against the constitution in the country were too great. And if again you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt that you have to pursue it for the sake of You know just the reconciliation. That we need is a country out there issue you faced. You found out that trump's justice department was secretly demanding that apple. Turn over your data and that of your family move. You say demonstrate sweated fragile time this is for our democracy. I was a little bit alarmed but frankly not surprised. When i received an email from apple couple months ago that my data had been turned over to the department of justice and actually was a staff member on the intelligence committee whose family member had their data also turned over in addition of course to adam. Schiff we'll wait the attorney. General called me and told me he had no idea about this new attorney. General merrick garland and that he wanted to have an inspector general. Look into it. And i know the judiciary committee will look into it but to me as somebody who was a vocal critic who was on the front lines on the intelligence and judiciary committee when you see that only two members of congress were targeted and they were the two. That were the most vocal myself. Mr schiff i think the you know rebuttal. Presumption has to be that. It was politically motivated again. I'm i'm open minded enough. That they could have a good reason. But knowing myself that. I never leaked any classified information My presumption knowing that donald trump used the department of justice and other instances to reward his friends and punish enemies That is something that we have to look into. But are you afraid at this kind of behavior that donald trump engaged in could become the new normal. I'm especially afraid that. Is we see georgia in texas and florida legislatures and governors try and they learn the wrong lesson from two thousand twenty instead of holding up the election results especially in georgia and arizona and saying this election was one of integrity. They're trying to make it harder for a democrat to win in twenty twenty two or twenty twenty four. I'm also. I'm equally afraid that governors or mayors would look at what donald trump did with the department of justice. And think. well. I can use my own local police my own state police to go after my enemies because i do believe presidents set the tone for the country and if you see a president using the department of justice you know for his or her personal benefits and political benefits that it could trickle down and affect what leaders do a the state and local level and so. That's why i really do think we have to. Universally and in a bipartisan way condemn. Donald trump did to make sure that this is not the new normal in america considering divisions we all see happening on capitol hill and in the country right now. How can you possibly the optimistic that there will be not only a reckoning but a beginning of understanding that republicans and democrats have to work together or this country is going nowhere. I find my faith in people like ambassador. Ivanovich and alexander vitamin and fiona hill You know all immigrants all worked for and were appointees of a republican president. Who had the courage to stand up and do what was right. I find the courage post insurrection. And people like officer. Mike fennell on Who defended the capital but had voted for donald trump of people like liz cheney and adam who were republicans but voted to impeach voted to hold donald trump accountable. And so you know if they can do that. With great risk to themselves personally and great risks to their livelihood in their careers than we all with very little risk you know can come together as a country. And as i said us unity as the antidote. So if they can do it. we're not asking. Every american to put on the body armor that mike fatone put on that morning to defend the capital as he suffered a heart attack in traumatic brain injury or just asking them. You know to be a little bit more open minded to recognize. There's only one version of the truth about that. Day and for us to unite is a country. That's where i get. My faith is what republicans are people who supported republicans. Did that day and the courage they have shown to break away from that not for the sake of themselves but for the sake of the country. Finally tell me what you believe. President biden is doing right and what his administration needs to focus on. Now you're certainly. I believe unified the country not in congress but the policy he has enacted really track with where the majority of americans are. And i think he's right to say bipartisanship doesn't necessarily have to be bringing intractable. Republicans in congress together with democrats but it's bringing policies that republicans and democrats across the country support. And so i would give him an a in that regard. I do think that the challenge of our time right now as we see the texas legislature on the democratic side in exile coming to washington because of the voting rights abuses that. You're seeing there that we have to recognize that the twenty twenty election did not resolve this question of trumpism versus democracy. We we thought that there would be resolution but instead it feels very much that we're in overtime and when you're in overtime you have to recognize what's at stake in that you know it's a very fragile time and so you know the covert relief is important but i i really do think we have to put front and center you know. These voting rights abuses. And make sure that especially in the senate whether it's on the for the people after getting the john lewis voting rights act passed that this is seen as existential. Because i do believe that there is a foreshadowing here of what's been done in florida and texas and georgia and arizona on the voting rights. Front that you know. We don't recognize that In the congress that we could just like hungary in hong kong and other countries that have drifted from democracy to an autocracy. We keep going the same direction and so. That's where i hope you know. President biden puts a lot of his focus in bringing the american people together around that issue before we close. Is there anything else. You'd like to say to our listeners. In many ways this was so predictable that we would find ourselves at this moment. And i think about the day before the senate trial of the second impeachment and we were in a hold room a formal ceremonial room. Just off the senate floor. Because of covert restrictions they were setting us up in that room. The senate staff was because only to impeach managers could be on the floor at a time and this. It help team had set up a copy machine printer they'd given us laptops and to millennials. I was the first to ask what the wi fi password was and they told us. It's under an account called managers and after we were given a briefing on like this room that we would use as a working room. I told the. It help team. I said you know. I'm i'm really impressed. That in such short time. You put this infrastructure together for us and without any recognition of irony in without missing a beat of this young nonpartisan staffer said to me. He said well sir. We were the same impeachment team From the first impeachment and to be honest we just left all this infrastructure up in this room because we figured you all would be back and so to them like. It wasn't a surprise at all like they didn't even take down the wifi network. That was used for the first impeachment because they figured donald trump would put our country in a position where he would be impeached again. And so my hope is a you know. A legislator is that we are never in a position where people in our country whether it's an it. Help person or a member of congress or everyday citizen is so pessimistic about what a president can do to a country that we can redeem democracy and expect better. Well thank you so much for joining us. Of course Is really my pleasure. Thank you that was democratic congressman. Eric california he's author endgame inside the impeachments of donald j trump for today. We'll be taking a break now. For the summer away you can enjoy a special series at entered some my favorite his actions from the diane rehm show are you can always find us on facebook and twitter or send us in in nail the podcast at w. amu dot org. Art theme. music is composed by jim berg and then lands verka. Late show is produced by alison. Brodine with help from. Sandra baker are engineered. Today is michael kidd. Thanks for listening all be well stay safe. I'm diane ris.
450- Stuff the British Stole
"Ninety nine percent visible is supported by wise a smart new way to move money internationally. Imagine world you could speak. Any language traveled to any place and spend in any currency with these at wise. They're building the money part. Wise is the world's most international account that lets you hold and convert dozens of currencies all in one place and you always get the real exchange rate but no markups. Wise is all you need. Designed by international people for international people try wise for free and wise dot com slash. Nine nine all made a goal to read more before with literati. You actually will join clubs hosted by inspiring leaders like malala. Richard branson or stephan. Curry literati delivers their monthly book. Picks straight to your door and alba club members can stop the entire literati library. Special members only pricing with many books over fifty percent off reimagined book club can be redeem your free trial and literati dot com slash invisible but l. i. t. e. r. dot com slash invisible. Let's go shopsmall the usual. Let's go good to see you. Let's go let's go. Oh i've got something new for you. Let's go lookin' good. Let's get back to our favorites. Let's go now then. Let's go again. Let's go shopsmall with amex. This is ninety nine percent visible. I'm roman mars. Throughout its reign. The british empire stole a lot of stuff today. Those objects are housed in june -til institutions across the uk and the world they usually come with polite plaques australian podcast stuff. The british dole is a six episode series about the nut so polite history behind a few of those objects. I completely fell in love with the show. So we're going to play the first episode and talk to the presenter in creator. Marc fennell about series. Here's stuff the british stole same kind of dade like he should be screaming guys. Being mauled by a tiger blood. Should be every way but the floor is completely dry. And he's is same serene he's mount curve. Almost the smile like even in debt. He knows he's one. It's intrinsically a kind of traumatic and very bloody events. The tigers roaring the man screaming. It's shameless it's so blatant virtually w father's grave up and put on display in his backyard. Kinda story you told me about math. On the third of december two thousand nineteen london was sunny. Bloody freezing the sky. Was this absolute crisp blurred. You could see high above the city. Three four planes crisscrossing the sky one of which act beyond in a matter of hours. The city was already decked out with tinsels and booze and there were pathogens office workers cramming themselves into department stores. Then there was me virtually alone in his cavernous museum polls struggling to understand why no one was taking notice of the almost life size soldier with the dilated pupils of a korea. Starting lying supine as a wild orange tiger plunged its fangs deep the side of his neck when we go to museums and we see these objects on display. We can sort of see the notes that they is. They're trying to tell those stories. Exactly which nights is history blaming him. See the depth of off. It should than when they were in the city. There was hand fighting the streets being vanquished bathroom. He has people get defensive and they get uncomfortable and lot of people walk away at that way. Nothing with everything that you take granted about your history. You only live nearby. It's not necessarily true. That's probably the moment it occurred to me the crime i was witnessing he wasn't node. He was theft. A mock fennell and this is stuff the british style. I'm flying back tonight tonight. i I'm just driving around trying to get presents. My kids shopping so in some ways this whole thing starts a few hours earlier. We've may being interrogated by london cabdriver. Who found my face particularly the color of it extremely confusing. also look. Ship may astro My my mom is from singapore. But she's indian and my dad is from island a weed mixture of of barth honest here not an australian citizen. And i'm an irish citizen. And i grew up in australia. And i'm indian ethnically bought. The mom came from singapore. It's all of it. It's you can swear in hindi and that's about it. She definitely can and he's brutal. It's also true that i tend to think of myself as the worst kind of ethnic A don't speak any other languages now. Accents are real understanding of myongji straight. That's it can cook. And more importantly i still count towards your diversity carter. I work for the say which is like the baby saver australia. I travel a lot to do lots of people around the world. So that's what i do to india. Well you know. I've never been dear. Never never take the word you are. Traveling is Your mom homeland. I know it's terrible. I've never been. There's no reason a. I've never been for some reason and with my cultural shaming now complete. He drives me outside euston station for the loss meeting. I have before heading to the airport. This is the person that would lead me to watch a man being murdered by tiger. She'd also send me to a dog kennel and a tattoo apollo but she doesn't know that yet and neither do i want to know is that accent sounds familiar. Did you grow up in london mostly. Yeah it's sounds a lot like and where are your parents from. That's what it is. That's what it is okay. We left australia was very very young. And i grew up in hong kong and then i've been in london meister my life so i went to school here studied here and that's kind of part of the reason i've spent so much time in museums is moving here. My parents were like we're gonna be in the heart of culture and history so we're gonna make sure you actually take advantage of that. Alice i proctor with a is a very different kind of historian. She specializes in the uncomfortable. Which may explain why she wanted to make in a library. Which best went on to describe. It is that it's halfway between hogwarts and an actual horror movie. So this is part of the wellcome collection sets the history of science and medicine. They have a bunch of bizarre and terrifying paintings of like seventeenth century medical procedures and stuff. There is a picture over there if a guy that appears to be flying off a chunk of flesh. And how would you describe that facial expression paint just a little bit. Alice gives guided tours. Just not the ones that museums and galleries like basically. When i started during the tourist they were like proper undercover secret tours which means that most undercover historian. I love most of them. Museums didn't find out about me. Until i started getting press attention so for a lot of them by the time they knew what i was doing. It was too late to stop me. I wonder why is this. Go with the funniest right next. I'm wondering with a group of people around it at the no one. Did they think you had a magnetic personality. They thought i was just a regular guy right and so. I knew that you could do this. Because i've been a regulatory guide and people would look at me and they would think. oh yes. She's a nice white girl with history background. She's probably an official educator. It'll be fine and no one would actually stop and listen to what i was talking about but when people did stop to listen at places like the british museum. The victoria and albert museum of the vienna for short some of the oldest collections on earth. What did they hear specifically about the stuff that people don't want to talk about which is colonial history the kind of dhaka's pots of empire imperialism. You know they'd be these objects on display that have really violent histories. No one would mention that and also objects that have quote unquote contested histories or there's mission right exactly and so a lot of museums use this time of contested history this way of kind of glossing over what's actually being contested. Which is that nine times out of ten. They were stolen very violent. Circumstances or taken as part of Looting after conflict that sort of thing. How many objects would you say in british institutions that you would classify as stolen so it's actually impossible to put a number on it because most estimates would say that gallery like the british museum or the vienna or one of those other institutions usually. They've got about five to ten percent of their collection on display at any given time so there is so much stuff that's not on show and often it's really hard to even kind of access the catalogs of the stuff that's on show so we honestly don't know how many hundreds of faces there are. That might be contested. And that is when alice mentions the tiger balm basically. It's a life size wooden tiger mauling a life size wooden man dressed in the uniform of the east india company. So it's very very on subtle and when you crank the handle It sort of makes screaming and groaning noises super classy. It's it's incredible. The tiger has a name tippers. Tyco named after a very real indian rule out by the name of people sutan. The tiger was his personal symbol. And a bad ass one that so the why else tells the story the tigers i found back in seventeen. Ninety nine and this tipper character was war with the british Same's he was killed in the british hike. He city then. The british soldiers got absolutely wild three days destroying staff leading staff and only after three days is order restored and the official looting can begin official losing apparently being an accepted thing and so when the official looting starts they find this tiger and it's made of wood so it's not got any material value whereas stuff like tip is thrown is broken down because it's made of gold and it's valuable in fritz material than fritz design so the tiger survives in this very weird way because people don't think it's valuable enough and they say they're going to send to london to be put on display. Rv is typically tiger ends up bouncing to few different british museums and libraries town particularly badly at a library so they have all these letters in the archives of students who like. I'm trying to use your library collection. But people keep coming in and making the tiger raw and it's really disruptive to my studying and for a while they think about taking it off open display because people of fainting in horror at the sight of it. because apparently it's so frightening So it's very weird history at once. It comes to the uk and now in the victoria and albert museum which is a design museum in case. You're wondering fainting in horror was the exact moment. I decided that. Even with the rapidly. Closing window to get to heathrow airport. I had to say this thing which brings us to the beginning of this episode. Maelaren in a room at the victoria and albert museum watching. I ne- life-sized. british soldier. Made from indian. Jack would being moded by the bad aas personal symbol of tipu sultan on this setting. They're all you wanna do is smashed open that and crank this faded bras handle just so you can hear the sound battle living years ago. The vienna inn a classically trained musician to attempt to play the tiger that they posted it on youtube. Which is where the click comes from the even opened up the tigers godsend inside reveals wrong with copper colored pipes where he's ribcage would be and leather bellows lungs really pumping out these musical screams wildest par as he plays the mangled british soldiers arms automatically fly in agony. What the hell happened to this typical guy. Why would he want to make something like this. I have kept travel. Diaries for trips. I've taken throughout my whole life in the first one that i have is from the edge of five i write down but i've gone so the bien a and i saw a funny object of a tiger killing englishman. Yeah maisy it makes a huge impression. Even if you're like a five year old kid being put in front of this you hearing the voice of maya jazz recording and here we go. I am a history professor at harvard university. And i teach and write on the history of the british empire. Weight is your interest in begin my interest in the up against with my birth because i am myself half indian my mother is from calcutta and immigrated to the united states as a girl and maya has also become somewhat obsessed with the tiger and the man who owned it tip assaults on was a prominent ruler in south india. In the second half of the eighteenth century he was one of the fiercest opponents of continued british expansion in the indian subcontinent. I feel like you've done this before. I actually haven't but i can whip it out so tip who made a fetish out of the tiger. The tiger of course is indigenous to india so his soldiers wore uniforms had kind of tiger stripe on them tigers on the pommel of his sword. Son just sort of tiger motifs everywhere around him. It was his. It was his badge account. Find real fight is if Bought the illustrations that we do have show a slightly chubby strong jorde man with a turban and a delicately coiffed moustache ways upturned. What the peaks daren't tell you. Is that this man. Spent every second of seventeen year ryen court in a series of strange balancing acts. The story of typical. John is one of a man who found himself between two superpowers to huge revolutions and between two generations. His father and his songs sought facades. Typical spent life carrying out someone else's unfinished business business of his dad. A man called hyder ali. The two of them. I think need to be understood together to some extent because typically was really building on what has father had started and what his father had started was a dynasty an opulent one two from the south west coast to deep inland. They themselves were muslim latest but they ruled sometimes brutally either by hindus and christians. They overthrew existing ladies and they were on hunt. The moorland people in willpower. But in the course of doing this run into some of the other powers that were interested in grabbing a piece of the action those powers included most notably the east india company. The east india company in effect a commercial army in service of the british empire. Hyder found himself in conflict with the east india company repeatedly in a series of wars which resulted in among other things him taking a whole bunch of captives from the british army and holding them in the capital city of ceriga patton. By the time tippers father high. The ali had died and himself assumed power. The british they were angry very angry. Hydrology died to sultan inherited the throne and with it inherited this legacy of being in a up and coming kingdom that had successfully defeated the british on was holding british officers in captivity and the british started to kind of build up this whole rhetorical in a picture of these people as these muslim despots and it was fueled by accounts that were coming from the captives from singapore. Tom who came out with these tales. Things like i was forcibly circumcised. Or i was forced to dress up in women's clothes and dance before the king and out of all of this emerged this kind of demonization of these two figures hyder until boo as People to be feared because they actually beat the british. Even to this day there are so many competing narratives about your soltan. Here means one of the most controversial figures in indian history and right now a deeply political one to just get you to introduce yourself and what you do for a living. I'm shushing fed member of indian parliament at twenty nine year. Career of the united nations ending his undersecretary-general undergoes have published twenty books with two more before the end of the and i am an amateur fan of modern indian his parading shore up to twenty bucks. You no longer qualifies amateur. But we'll let that one slide. I happened to have a slightly unfashionable view in india today that he was a hero. And that's largely because he was a resolute anti-colonialist. I saved the unfashionable view because there are also a lot of accounts both in terms of bush records which may be biased but olsen folklore entails. Foss down the generations of his Rather a gruesome persecution of large numbers of hindus and christians which have not endeared him to descendants of those communities literally as chassis. And i talk. There is a campaign within india to remove typically from parts of the school syllabus because of his massacring of hindu subjects and yet curiously for very hindu politician shashi tharoor. I would regard as someone who indians biolog- very good reason to be proud of my soul was a formidable state. Extending across the largest imaginable southern india people of his kingdom of by saw enjoyed the highest standards of living in the in the non well. The per capita income was higher than the highest european power of the time the dutch very well armed high technological capacity rockets which the british actually subsequently stole. He was an extremely effective jan. Roller leader of troops in battle. Who run more wars that he lost but eventually did lose the third. My soul war against the british. The price was far higher than he was bargaining for one of the stipulations of the piece that was struck between the east india company and tip. Who was to to percents on sons would be taken hostage by the british. Not just any british leader. Mind you and those two sons were received by the at the time. The commander of the british forces lord cornwallis. Who a few years earlier Gained some notoriety here in the united states is the person who lost the battle of yorktown with it concluded the american revolution on american terms. Anyway there he pops up in india a decade later and He takes the sons of tip sultan so the guy that filed to stop the american revolution was not going to let this indian warlord have his and so he held onto cheapoo's sons. Do we know how cheaper reacted to the abduction of us children. I you know there's probably something more specific but suffice to say there was a fourth my sore so you can imagine people had gone through a fair amount of humiliation british hands so i i think it's fairly. It's fairly understandable. Could see the the depth of hatred that tip felt but typically wasn't the only one who hated the british that's where other superpower steps into the picture and that is the french so this connection with the french is really important to the story of of my source of sense and above all i think it's demise so in the seventeen nineties britain and france or engaged in a huge global war the revolutionary wars and a piece of this war. They are skirmishing in india and cheaper just waged himself. The twin them up the french and the french help temple actually small the idea of an alliance that would throw the british out of india so they had french advisers and soldiers even who came drilled their own troops and taught them new tactics and doubtless reconnaissance for certain kinds of technology on certain kinds of maneuvers. Which meant that. You know to the extent that there was a technological gap between western and indian forces. At that time wasn't huge. Even to begin with that gap was flattened not just methods to wage war. The french also supplied other technologies including technology to make music tip is tiger is Pretty fascinating for a whole bunch of since but one of them is that the manufacturer of it is clearly indo european. That is the would that it's made out of is indian. Would that part was manufactured in india but the mechanism inside that creates. These noise is of european manufacturer. These how tip use tiger came to be the embodiment of teepees rage against the british and the alliance between france and my soul. The same alliance was about to be tippers. Undoing and now a surprise appearance from a little known historical figure somebody who in less than a year would become an icon. The french revolution enter napoleon. Bonaparte napoleon at the time and up and coming general in the french revolutionary army invades egypt's for him. Egypt is a staging post all the way to india napoleon rights to tip assault and says here. I am in egypt. You know ready and waiting. I'm going to send over my ten thousand man to come and join you in chase british away. Well that letter that the polian road was intercepted by the british of jeddah. The british jumped on the excuse or pretext. If you will to go after tip in may of seventeen ninety nine. The east of the company surround serena putin and they decide to go for it. They bombarded the thick fortifications and broke holes in it and set up their ladders. Went running over to the city. And then when they were in the city there was hand to hand fighting the streets and among the dead that was discovered heap of bodies by one of the gates of the city at the end of this action. Was that of tip. Assault himself caught between the superpowers of france and britain between cornwallis a veteran of the american revolution and napoleon certain to be later the french revolution. They lies the tiger of my soul funds. For was i think the end pretty much of any meaningful indian resistance to steady british expansion. He was the last substantial mona to be willing to fight the british. How do you think typically would feel about his tiger sitting in british institution that had been prepared ed is essentially for him to actually demonstrates his contempt for the british to actually be in british hands would have been the ultimate active humiliation so he would have been pretty pretty upset about that. I think people would be quite pleased because he was a very vain man. Someone who sees the tiger immediately wants to get drawn into the story about tabu. Millions of people from around the world getting drawn into that story. That would never happen. If it was say in bangolo which would now be the capital of the mice state that he wants rude deductor zaree. Musani is a historian who was raised in india only end up at oxford university in the uk and as more people like shashi thorough argue for the return of tempur tiger to india. The rear thinks there's parts of the story that we're missing. I mean i'm all for certain objects are of great icon iq values say religious value being re returned with something like a tiger. The reason it survived is that it was shipped to england and conserved preserved. Had he been in day would have just fallen to pieces eventually because no one would have been interested for a couple of hundred years but indian politician. Shashi thorough disagrees. Something wrong about stealing items have belonged to another people and then in a self righteous declaiming you look after the better than those who are entitled on the would i mean if somebody victory doug and grave up and and and put it on display in his backyard. Would you feel that. Morality was on his side. I mean it's that kind of story talking. There is no tradition of museums in indian culture. You know precolonial. India hafner museums. So i think this is very much a western fascination with antiquity. This was transplanted to a country. Like india. i don't think it has that unique value. And i think if it were returned to india now it would just be another nationally stakes sort of icon to be displayed. Somewhere of you. Know an indian tiger eating braschi so jazz. I don't think anyone would particularly be interested in the history beyond accepts. There is at least one person for whom it would mean much more than that. It took us a little while to track him down but eventually we managed to connect the coal. This might seem like a weird question but after all these years do you think of yourself as royal. I feel i am an. I have not done anything much. I am an ordinary percent. I just happened to win. The family who my name is both the lucia six generation descendant from his fencing by bacteria. Ali shah is a criminal lawyer. In calcutta it amazes me that even five generations or six generations down the line you still want to connect and people want to know about him. So i just feel that. We're kind of charisma. That man must have had that all that is still a european effect on us. Will people still want to connect the the still have that kind of an order about him which absorb on us but the way bacteria tells a story being a descendant of tipper wasn't always a good thing he was martyred in seventy nine thousand nine. He's a family was as business. They were best business in about eighteen hundred six. So that is how our family came here. Bacteria describes how the family were restricted from interacting with the locals. All going back to my soul now exiled some heavy soviet left here today. It's been declined for the family from teams. How do you feel about that. How do you feel about that. Decline video unfortunate. All those people who went against the british their invite shift in india. He put who were with the british. This still have their royalty and everything even today as usually happens once seeing is vanquished and his entire family as unfortunate dangling family histories personal macy and sometimes in wise that we don't necessarily expect sorry room earlier when i said that tip useful on ruled sometimes brutally over hindus. I didn't realize is that apparently includes mind family. You know i've i've never been to india never been i've never been found me. You're traveling mom homeland. My mom's family does go back to india. Generations of noise will rise in the coastal regions of a place called carola carola which was colonized by people not by the british by people who massacred one hundred thousand local people transported many to slavery. He practiced slavery quite widely mayan. Indian ancestors will almost definitely subjects of salon. I mean tiger belongs as much to me were you. I think as it does to someone back in my soul whether he was a war criminal whether he was a great leader the heritage there belongs to all of us did actually make it to the april of that day. Let me tell you something about handing out of your possible to make you really consider who it is. You belong to to tell you the truth. I don't actually have a definitive opinion on british colonialism but as australian who's a beauty in singapore and a bit irish. I do not that. I wouldn't exist without depending on where you're listening to. This is a pretty good chance that you declined you met library. Alice told me about four other objects. There's this whole kind of history of undescribed violence. Tragic thousands of people are murdered surprising. Week this is your fate some very strange objects from different corners of the nitel story. The story about how you ended up with the world that we have today staples. It's the story of aas told through some stuff. The british store stuff. The british stall was produced by zoe ferguson and myself. The executive producer is worth has sleigh and julie browning is the head of society and culture mixing by martin peralta. You want to know more about alice. Brockton she's written a book called the whole picture which is available now. This is production of abc iran in was created and written by may amok fennell. And he's a hint for next episode. It wants to hug you say I talked with series creator and presenter. Marc fennell after that Remember the feeling you got as a kid of getting tucked into bed or that feeling you get now on the arms of somebody. Love safe insecure. It's a feeling of security. That only comes through a human connection. And that's why the people at simplisafe home security are so important of course simplisafe has an award-winning system. That has all the technological bells and whistles that you'd expect these days but the people at simplisafe that really take it to the next level there there around the clock anytime you need them. Whether it's a fire a burglary medical emergency burst pipe or even a problem while you're setting up the system. Simplisafe has a person with the expertise. You need ready to help. Twenty four seven. And when you know there's always someone there to help well as a feeling you just don't get with any old security system to find out how simply safe can help make you feel safe and secure at home. Visit simplisafe dot com slash invisible today to customize your system and get a free security camera. That's sim pi as f. e. dot com slash invisible today. Let's go shopsmall the usual. Let's go hey good to see you. Let's go let's go. Oh i've got something new for you. Let's go looking good. Let's get back to our favorites. Let's go now then. Let's go again. Let's go shopsmall with amex if you're a business owner who's hiring you probably face a lot of challenges when it comes to finding the right person for your role challenges like none of applicants with right skills or maybe too many resumes to sort through. That's why hiring can feel trying to find a needle in haystack. Sure you can post your job to some job board but all you can do is hope for the right person to come along. Which is why you should try. Ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash nine nine. When he posted job on ziprecruiter get sent to over one hundred top job sites with one. Click then ziprecruiter matching technology finds people with the right skills and experience for your job and invites them to apply. It's no wonder that two point three million businesses have come to ziprecruiter for their hiring needs including this business. I hired someone from zip recruiter myself. So while other companies overwhelm you with way. Too many options soup recruiter finds what. You're looking for the needle in the haystack. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at this web address ziprecruiter dot com slash nine nine once again remembered to go to this unique place ziprecruiter dot com slash nine nine ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire my name is mike fennell and amongst other things. I'm the creator of a Podcast series stuff. The british stole originally. The title had another word and that was Not stuff it was another s. word but Multiple broadcasters around. The world told me that i should change that. But the word i'm glad didn't change was the stolen pob -solutely so you did this for the abc the australian broadcasting corporation your base nostra. When when you start with the name stuff bristol and you're in australia. You just begin with like gesturing. Broadly to the land around who ordered. Well it actually. It actually started with a conversation with a friend of mine and she's lebanese and we used to together and we were just saying i. We both love going to museums. But when we were there we you'd always dislike. Close your eyes and point open. Your eyes went. Oh yeah that was stolen from insect country here and then we looked at each other and then we looked at the landscape around us. When oh everything. And i think that was a good starting point i think when i look for stories and projects and things to create and work on. I'm usually looking for a small doorway into a big world and this struck me is the perfect way to do history to colonialism. Without and i'm doing quite here doing history and colonialism. Something that's digestible and it has intrigued. And i think that was. That was kind of the heart of it and the white. It really kicked off. As i happen to be on my way to london and i was going over for an award that i knew i was going to lose so it was like. I need to think of something worthwhile to on this trip. So i arranged to meet up with A historian who i heard before and she sort of just blew my mind. She's actually at. She's the voice. You hear at the beginning alice proctor and it was a real like on a whim like lets us catch up on. I might record it and suddenly she kind of like crystallized the whole thing for me and i was like oh this is a world stories. He that you can tell the tell us not just about. It's not just about ephemera. But they tell us about ourselves and it tells us about how we ended up with the world as. I signed the series. We have to die. And i think that it was a bit of a lot bulb. Yeah so how did you pick the different objects to focus on because as you said you know like there's a lot of examples of stuff the british stole so we heard about one of them but of the other ones in the series and and you. You told me that you're gonna make another set of these these episodes You know what is the thing. That's where of that. Piques your interest when it comes to a certain type of gio tightly correct. There are a gazillion things and that's very technical medical term that the british doll. I think there's a few bars at nate's declared to have a few internal turning points as an object itself in terms of the history that tells but ultimately what it comes down to is it has to you have to be able to drawer a law in some point in all that fishing in reading old pipes and whatnot. You have to be able to draw a line between the object being taken and to die. And usually i find that's a person or family Something that somebody for whom it matters a great deal and they kinda crystallize. it can never be ephemeral. it always has to connect to something emotional. you know. It's funny when when i first started making the series a lot of people like well. What are you going to do the portuguese. And when are you going to do the nazis. I'm like look that hates. The stuff was stolen that too. But i think the thing that the british empire as the british empire shaped so much of our lives like the fact that you and i were separated by thousands of miles and columbus right now. But the fact that you know i can. Communicate is because we both speak english and if you speak english you've been touched by the british empire and so i think it's this idea that it does it. Has this huge shopping. Force sits underneath their lives in the why. That is so ubiquitous that it's almost invisible right unless you take the time to look at it through a digestible lens as it turns out we it. Object sitting in seems quite digestible. So the even the title indicates a point of view about it and so. I'm curious to know the different responses. You might have gotten from the podcast maybe from people who might vehemently disagree with you with even the verb stole yes. The title is strident right. But also once you get into the stories you realize the stories are really complicated and are and i say a people when we're approaching them to be in the series. We are open to having the conversation about it being contested and we are open to you saying no. It was not stolen. It was a gift or whatever you wanna side what it really comes down to me is. It's about nuance riot. Sorry you have to be able to be honest with the audience in ingar. Well this person says this but if you look into it. It isn't backed up all if you go down another pathway. Sounds like it isn't and i think a big part of while like this medium. The thing that we make is that it allows you to take an audience down the path. Why and i think that kind of respects your intelligence that that you can hold more than one idea at once and when we look at the past there's a tendency to either focus only on the good things only on the bad things and my attitude particularly colonialism is you will encounter these arguments and people will say well you know if it weren't for colonialism you wouldn't have laws and you wouldn't have railroads but then at the end the other end of spectrum because of colonialism genocides and there was children taken away from families horrendous and my attitude history and the thing that this series taught me is that those two things don't ever balance each other out and they definitely don't cancel each other out all they do is they coexist and i think we as a species are smart enough to hold both of those ideas at the same time and and and and not try and force them balance each other out and some sort of historical wayang match. It doesn't work that way. And i think what's good about stories like this is you can actually guide the audience through those things and we emerge out the other end with a mall. Sort of complex understanding. Like i say to people. Like i want you to stand in the mess. Like i want you to feel the mass. I like the idea of standing in the mess. I mean we discovered a little bit in the repatriation sort of discussion. Is that Who you repatriating to is is actually pretty complicated. Because it isn't the monarch or the controller of a state that once was i mean there's a brand new government air and there's descendents of those people and it becomes like well i don't i don't even know where this object belongs even if you were inclined to give back anyway. Yeah and you know in a in the next episode of the series. That is a very coal problem. Where basically We've got two guys who basically come into possession of something that belongs to a ruler that no longer exists and the the government in nigeria. Like well we can have it back if it's a gigantic political act and we can put on a song and dance about it. But that's not what the the people that are in the objects currently wanted and there's a huge amount of challenge this swathe of challenges that happened there and actually if something comes up all the time with this series which is like you you get to the point of what you've told the story of how it ended up where it is and then in an effort to find a conclusion you like There is none because because we're still living with the consequences and you have to kind of dig a little deeper and guy. Well what if the there's the macro the object and what you do with it but then it's like what does that tell you. And what does the story of that object tell you and usually it tell you about a culture that's been interrupted and families that have been interrupted. And if you can find something and this is what i spent. This is what keeps me up at nine if i can. Fine something that that is that usually there's an ending and it's a it's not necessarily ending to the object because the object is static but the people they keep going and if you can find something that returns justice and conclusion too damn then. I kind of feel like i've done my job somewhat. Maybe so you know when it comes to the whole concept of using mundane objects or maybe even fantastic objects to reviews uses a lens to view ourselves in the world. I mean this is something. That's very near and dear to the heart of us at nine. I'm pi And and as such you know we get pitches about the repatriation of colonial objects like quite often. And we've done a few of these stories you can't you can't do them all. I mean maybe you can do them all know what we can do them all. What do you think this topic if feels so relevant right now like it really seems to be. People are thinking about it. In a way that i've never encountered before we are reexamining history really intensely across the world right now and i think there's the that history has been unbalanced and how was taught like i in my country in australia. Indigenous australians have been around for sixty thousand years the oldest continuous culture on earth. When i was when i was growing up through through school the way it works is that you get one page of their indigenous people in australia. And then captain cook arrive. And that's when history starts right. And i think that's true. A lot of western western histories and a sense now of we need to go back and re examine the pasta certainly in academic and historical societies. That's been happening for a long time. But i think it's pushed out into the wider world where people are suddenly looking back looking around them at the land in which they walk going. How did we get here. And i think movements like black laws has been really instructive in sparking that. Not just in the us but around the world. It's funny with statues digress. But with me statues are such a fascinating thing because when you when you build a statue to somebody you're not leaving a lot of room for nuance around that statue. You build statues to here is right and if that person is anything less than or more than here are you putting a lot of pressure on that clock. The toe that story and most of the time those plots don't tell that story. That's my whole thing i met. I met a podcast to address the inadequacy of blocks museums. Joyce but i back fully supported so so our audiences listened to episode one about t. booze tiger which is like a really fantastic object of that may sound and his colorful an odd in many ways. Could you tease some of the other ones from this series. And maybe even a t some the objects you're working on for for series number two so we have objects taken from an african nation in the middle of masoka. I really specific masoka. We have a dog that was taken from china. There is a tattoo or a body part that was tattoo that was taken from new zealand. And then there was something that was taken for my home country and isn't at the moment. I'm currently working on another five episodes and all all size on spending a lot of time with great people and i. I can't possibly imagine why would be talking to great people. It's not like they have anything major stolen from them by the british that i can think mark thank you so much for talking with us and invert for sharing your stories and allowing us to share with our audience. Because i know they're going to dig the hell of it so thanks. Roman ninety nine percent of his. What was produced this week by emmett. Gerald mix music and tech production by director of sound. Sean how are executive producers delaney hall. Kirk kolstad is digital director. The resident includes vivian. Les deux rosenberg crisper ruby. Christopher johnson lauch madan so class car and me roman mars special thanks to andrew davies at abc. We are part of it. Stitcher and sirius. Xm podcasts family. Now headquartered six blocks north in the pandora building in beautiful uptown oakland california. You can find the show during about the show on facebook. You can tweet me out. Roman arson show at nine hundred instagram. And read it to you. Should check out. This new stitcher series called toxic. All about britney spears in her disturbing conservatorship and the group of fans trying to end it as told by some of those fans spearheading the movement. It's fascinating cast. You can find a link to it and other stitcher shows. I love in every past episode of nine pm at ninety nine. Peon dot I'm gonna steal something from the british luke luke luke. You're listening to a podcast from sirius. Xm meet dan. Dan buildup popular bike company but his old software made it impossible to keep up with demand. It took so much time to just make things work. It was taking a lot out of him. Then he found odu odu automated his business by integrating inventory manufacturing accounting and marketing now. He can meet the demand and grow even faster with the commerce app. Thanks to. Dan doubled his revenue and can focus on what matters go to dot com slash invisible to start free trial that's odio dot com slash invisible.